# DVO Topaz



## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Didn't see a thread on this so I figured I would start one for those interested in the shock. I got mine a couple of weeks ago and so far only have one ride on it due to work requiring me to be away from home.

The Topaz came in its own custom hard case including a pump and volume spacers. I got it to replace the double barrel inline that my Knolly came with and from the one ride I have on it, the Topaz is feeling much better. This most likely is due to being a better pairing with my DVO fork and also just more volume to soak up larger hits. I think I'll be adding a volume spacer when I return home shortly and see how it is feeling after that. For the first ride, the shock didn't feel sloppy for stand up pedaling, bottomed out without me noticing, and has VERY little breakaway force required. So far I haven't had a shock with this little breakaway force which is proving to be pretty incredible.

Here are the initial photos and I'll post some more info as more rides on the shock happen.


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## NoMountainsBiker (Nov 27, 2014)

Glad to hear you like it. I have been eyeballing it as a replacement for my Float. Seems like a really nice shock at a good price. Keep the updates coming.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Yeah finally some info out there. I got mine mounted up and my initial impressions are really positive. Mine went on a Transition Scout that I've just built up with a Diamond up front. I did a long weekend of riding on the stock Monarch and this shock is definitely an upgrade. 
Will post pics when I get home.

This shock is the business.
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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Added a volume spacer and this thing is set now. I feel like it matches my front fork (DVO Diamond) so well now. Granted it should as according to DVO it's the same piston in the fork just scaled down. I'll be getting more rides in on it soon and hitting up a 4-6 stage enduro race in a couple of weekends with it.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I snapped in 3 of the 4 spacers because my Monarch was way too linear for my liking. Definitely an improvement over the RS stuff. These guys know their ****.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Has anyone been riding a Topaz for an extended period and can speak of it's reliability? 

What's the recommended service intervals?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

EatsDirt said:


> Has anyone been riding a Topaz for an extended period and can speak of it's reliability?
> 
> What's the recommended service intervals?


It only started shipping less than a month ago. No real people have had it longer than that... The bike mags/websites have certainly been riding them but nobody to my knowledge has released an extended review.


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

max_lombardy said:


> It only started shipping less than a month ago. No real people have had it longer than that...


it's 2 months now... any user review?


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

What size shock mounting hardware ?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

savo said:


> it's 2 months now... any user review?


Well not much to say really... It works great! No weird noises or unexpected anything. I leave my climb switch open all the time and it rides pretty awesome.

So basically if you like DVO go for it, if not then get a Float X or a Monarch Plus and I'd bet you wouldn't notice all that much difference. I do definitely prefer the feel over the Monarch rc3 I had before the tooaz.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

EatsDirt said:


> Has anyone been riding a Topaz for an extended period and can speak of it's reliability?
> 
> What's the recommended service intervals?


^^this

I like to hear more about high speed performance on this thing...rock gardenz etc


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Yes, more comparisons to other shocks please: )


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

I ran this for an enduro race at a shuttle bike area and I was pleasantly surprised. After having the shock for about 2 months now, I have yet to feel like it's been underwhelming or bottoms harshly. 

I previously had a CCDBA Inline but unfortunately that's not a very good comparison as I didn't spend as much time as I could have to tune that shock. It was just a placeholder until I got my Topaz. At first I thought I would be left a little wanting for some compression adjustment outside of the three modes, but really I have been running it fully open without a single issue. The only time I have used the lockout at all has been for paved or fire roads which have been few and far between. That could just be my personal style, but I honestly think the range on the open setting is pretty impressive and I'm finding that air pressure and tuning rebound are making the biggest difference in getting the shock dialed versus messing with the compression switch. Just a few (5-10) psi adjustment around your desired sag percentage gives a good amount of difference in feeling in my opinion. 

So far the shock has been great and still with zero stiction from the initial start of the stroke.


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## ggnarl (Mar 13, 2008)

*Topaz is a winner!*

I've had one for about six months. No issues. I have it mounted to a giant Reign. I have three volume reducers installed. I got mine from a dealer who bought it at a trade show. (Guru suspension in Tucson AZ).

I use the three way compression adjuster all the time , works well, not a firm lock out, but helps climbing by keeping more weight on the front tire by slowing compression impacts on the rear. In descend mode it is wide open and super plush. Trail mode helps on medium speed stuff. It helps prevent hobby horse effect on slower speed whoops, washes etc. Adjusting the air pressure has a big effect on compression feel.

I had a Fox DHX 5 air can before. That shock was OK after a bunch of tweaking the propedal pressure and volume. This DVO feels much more linear with more mid travel support. The Fox could offer the same support with maxed out Pro pedal pressure, but then it felt really harsh on small bump sensitivity.

THe Topaz never feels harsh, no matter where the compression pressure is. Adding compression pressure just affects mid travel support in a subtle way.

Its hard to quantify the different feel this shock gives. A good shock disappears under you and you just focus on the trail. The DVO does this completely. I got it set up on ride three, and haven't messed with it since. Every now and then, I will rail thru a section that used to buck me on the Fox DHX, and am amazed at the compliance of this thing.

THe other up side of this shock is the DVO philosophy of user maintenance. We are supposed to be able to at least have it serviced at a local dealer, if not your self. I haven't had mine serviced yet. We will see how that goes.


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

Just picked up mine yesterday, I'll have it on tomorrow and have an initial ride report on Sunday.


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

hazmatt480 said:


> Just picked up mine yesterday, I'll have it on tomorrow and have an initial ride report on Sunday.


I installed mine earlier this week, hoping to ride over the weekend. Did yours come with an o ring? I thought that it was odd that mine didn't come with one.


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

Kevlar3D said:


> I installed mine earlier this week, hoping to ride over the weekend. Did yours come with an o ring? I thought that it was odd that mine didn't come with one.


 Mine didn't come with one.. Kinda lame I think.


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

CHROMAG19 said:


> Mine didn't come with one.. Kinda lame I think.


Yeah, I agree. I am surprised that they left out something so essential to shock tuning. Not like I am going to be looking down at my shock while I am effortlessly gliding through a rock garden.

I bought this:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002KO1XK

PM me your address and I can mail you one once I figure out which size it is.


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

Mine didn't come with an o-ring either. The initiative setup was pretty easy though. However, I'm not sure how much air to put in the reservoir. It just has a range on it and nothing in the manufacturer...


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

hazmatt480 said:


> Mine didn't come with an o-ring either. The initiative setup was pretty easy though. However, I'm not sure how much air to put in the reservoir. It just has a range on it and nothing in the manufacturer...


It says how much air in the owners manual.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

CHROMAG19 said:


> It says how much air in the owners manual.


Does it say how much air to put in for what leverage rate and are you able to determine the leverage rate at the sag point for your bike? Just askin...


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

I did a couple miles on the Topaz over the weekend and overall it was a HUGE upgrade from the RS Monarch R. I didn't use any air spacers and set the rebound to three clicks. It soaked up everything I threw at it.


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

Just got back from a day of shuttling in Sedona, I rode High Line and a few other smaller trails. I was really impressed right from the start. I've got this on an Ibis HD3 and it made the bike feel so much more responsive and confident! Rode all of high line and didn't hear anything from it, it was smooth the whole way down. I switched from the ccdbi and man what a difference! My buddy said that it gets better as it breaks in, I can't even imagine! Include that it's serviceable by my shop and doesn't cost an arm and leg...SOLD!! What a great product!!!!


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

hazmatt480 said:


> Just got back from a day of shuttling in Sedona, I rode High Line and a few other smaller trails.


Lucky!


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

Kevlar3D said:


> Lucky!


well...it's only a short drive away for me!


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

hazmatt480 said:


> well...it's only a short drive away for me!


I am an hour closer than you are, I literally have no excuse!


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

So tempted to get one of these for my HD3.. Everyone still raving about them? Any reliability issues?


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

No issues thus far seems rock solid. Only time will tell.


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## rushcentrale (Oct 15, 2014)

I just got the Topaz yesterday with a first ride today. It's insane. The traction I have on my Insurgent with this shock is unbelievable. It's super plush up top with so much mid support, I feel like I have endless travel. :thumbsup:


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

rushcentrale said:


> View attachment 1086106
> 
> 
> I just got the Topaz yesterday with a first ride today. It's insane. The traction I have on my Insurgent with this shock is unbelievable. It's super plush up top with so much mid support, I feel like I have endless travel. :thumbsup:


I'm waiting for the release of the topaz for the stumpy. So sick and tired of blowing up fox junk. 3 months on 2016 stumpy and the rear fox (expert trim) and it gave up the ghost.

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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

I'm looking at this shock for my Banshee Spitfire. Keep the reviews coming, so far they've been very positive. Has anyone serviced theirs yet?


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## kpm700 (Aug 7, 2007)

I just got my Topaz mounted up on my Hightower last night and am curious what everyone's settings are with psi, spacers and weight.

I weight 230 geared up and DVO recommended 2 spacers on the negative side and 30% sag. Felt pretty good around the neighborhood but I'll need to see how it is on the trail.


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

I have 6 clicks of rebound, 195psi, one spacer in the negative chamber. I weigh about 170lbs and ride and Intense carbine 27.5.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

kpm700 said:


> I just got my Topaz mounted up on my Hightower last night and am curious what everyone's settings are with psi, spacers and weight.
> 
> I weight 230 geared up and DVO recommended 2 spacers on the negative side and 30% sag. Felt pretty good around the neighborhood but I'll need to see how it is on the trail.


Post pics please!


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## kpm700 (Aug 7, 2007)

max_lombardy said:


> Post pics please!


Will do later tonight! I'm still waiting on some red decals to come in and match my Hightower


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

Here is mine.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Nice this thread needs more of that!


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

. I'll be going with a full dvo package on my new riot. Topaz rear diamond fork and dropper

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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

Nice Canfield, those are great bikes!


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Kevlar3D said:


> Nice Canfield, those are great bikes!


Thanks man!! I've been on a epo for a few months just picked up a nimble9 as my single speed and now the riot for the all around fun as hell bike.

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## kpm700 (Aug 7, 2007)

Here's my Hightower. Red decals should be here this week. So far night and day difference from the Monarch and just as good if not better than the Float X I had on my last bike. I need a few more rides to dial it in though.

I'm 230 geared up, running 215 psi, 2 spacers on the negative side and 4 clicks of rebound. I think I need to bump up the psi a bit.


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## broccoli rob (Jul 3, 2012)

I've had a topaz on my Nomad for about a month now, loving it so far. I'm about 220lbs with gear. 220psi, 4 clicks rebound from slow and no volume spacers. I tried one spacer on the positive side but the bike felt like it was crack, not bad on smoother flow stuff but overall I liked the more linear feel without it. I noticed some people with VPP putting the spacers on the negative side so I will give that a try. I just did 2 days at mt bachelor bike park with it and it held its own. Great small bump compliance, hugged the ground, and nice pop on jumps. Climbing traction really good too. Coming off the vivid air, which was very good, I'm liking the simplicity and ease of tuning of the Topaz. The Vivid was good at smashing fast DH type trails but the Topaz is on par and better for all around riding for me. The Topaz seems to have breathed new life into the Nomad. I'm still playing around with it but so far so good. Has anyone adjusted the bladder pressure yet ?


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

broccoli rob said:


> I've had a topaz on my Nomad for about a month now, loving it so far. I'm about 220lbs *with gear*.


That's a really good point- I ALWAYS setup my suspension in my garage and then wonder why I sag another 5% once I get on the trail. I always seem to forget that I strap a 10lb bag of water to my back.


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## majki1978 (Sep 10, 2016)

Hi guys, I'm about buying topaz but I have to know the max diameter of the air can (I have limited room in the frame -Kellys Swag). I couldn't find any shock drawing with dimensions.can You help and measure it?


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

Three months on the Topaz in my Giant Trance and it is still great. I haven't needed to open it up but have needed to add more air pressure. It seems like getting my low 20 to 25% sag needs 215 psi or more for me with my 200lbs and gear. 

Topaz wish list: I wish it had the sag gradients measured and printed on the shock tube like my old RS Monarch. My calipers are getting a lot more use now.


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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

Switched to the Topaz on my Spitfire and it completely changed the feel of the bike. I had an XFusion O2 prior to the DVO. The Topaz is super smooth on the small chatter and with two spacers it ramps up nicely on the bigger hits leaving me with about 2-3mm to go. Not to bad seeing that I'm 240 geared up. At 28-30% sag = 250psi with 4 turns out from slow on the rebound. I'm now thinking about a Diamond fork to match it.


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## trevor426 (Sep 26, 2016)

I have been looking at the Topaz, but I'm worried it won't work with my bike. I currently have a 2013 Kona Process with a L/L tune on the shock and was wondering if the Topaz would work. I don't know a whole lot about this stuff so anything helps.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

trevor426 said:


> I have been looking at the Topaz, but I'm worried it won't work with my bike. I currently have a 2013 Kona Process with a L/L tune on the shock and was wondering if the Topaz would work. I don't know a whole lot about this stuff so anything helps.


You will need a de-tune for it to work properly for an l/l tune bike. I have a similar situation and after a conversation with Ronnie I'll be doing a de-tune.

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## trevor426 (Sep 26, 2016)

rollertoaster said:


> You will need a de-tune for it to work properly for an l/l tune bike. I have a similar situation and after a conversation with Ronnie I'll be doing a de-tune.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


Thanks how much does that usually cost? I'm assuming you have to send it in, how is the turnaround time on it?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

How do you know if a bike is a L/L tune? - Ibis mojo hd3.


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## trevor426 (Sep 26, 2016)

It was listed on my shock. I have a Rockshox and there is a red and blue box with a M or L on it. Red is rebound and blue is compression. What shock do you have?


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

I'm expecting delivery if my topaz and diamond fork tomorrow for my new riot build 


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

FYI on the Topaz the bottom of the DVO logo is 30% sag.

Additionally, DVO will help tune your shock before they send it out, however, there is a large range of tuning with the air pressure, bands, resi pressure, and amount of rebound on the shock. This makes it so it's almost universal as a "tune" so to speak.

@Raleighguy29
In Raleigh NC? Congrats on the new suspension. I'm down in Southern Pines with both as well if you need any tuning help.

Here is my current setup with some custom decals.


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## trevor426 (Sep 26, 2016)

Wow that bike looks fantastic. Love the blue decals. Do they also have other colors? I was considering buying used and my bike has a L/L tune so how would I set up the shock for my bike? I don't know a whole lot about rear suspension since this will only be my second shock.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Idaho said:


> FYI on the Topaz the bottom of the DVO logo is 30% sag.
> 
> Additionally, DVO will help tune your shock before they send it out, however, there is a large range of tuning with the air pressure, bands, resi pressure, and amount of rebound on the shock. This makes it so it's almost universal as a "tune" so to speak.
> 
> ...


I'm up in Indiana but will be down in pisgah at the end of next month to ride and be on vacation

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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Topaz and diamond have landed









And I've installed the topaz on my riot.

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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Anyone running one of these on a v1 Bronson or 5010? 

I'm thinking about replacing my DBAir CS with one of these how you have it setup and how it feels.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I got a buddy that did exactly that on his v1 5010. Ccdba to topaz and he's stoked on it. He put it on straight out of the box, set sag and rebound. Evidently it feels better to him although it's obviously less adjustable.


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## PDB (May 16, 2006)

Have you guys found a tuning guide anywhere? My Manual didn't include anything detailed, and I haven't found an indepth guide using google on the internet machine. 

I'm pretty darn happy with my topaz, but i'm still working on that fine tuning (i'm 95% of the way to an ideal all around base tune, and am 85% of the way to having 2 alternative tunes settled on). 
example - Not entirely sure what the effect of a spacer in the negative air chamber is on compression or rebound. Also wondering if there's some internal adjustments that i'm not aware of also. 

Thanks all!


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

First ride on mine tonight just a short 8 miler to shake down my new riot build. I put one band on the positive side aired it up to 250. Just realized I didn't adgust the rebound but it still was awesome. Road it in open mode the whole time. Does anybody but me know about the air pressure in the piggy back

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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Topaz tuning thread from RM: DVO Topaz? | Ridemonkey Forums


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

Ha!
I rode my Topaz for weeks before realizing I had not pumped up the piggy back aka bladder. It had tons of linear travel under inflated and is much more firm now with 190 psi.

I'm 200lbs when geared up and running 220 psi in the big can and 190 psi in the small one. No need for volume reducers yet. I ride lots of flowy trails with small drops, jumps, and the occasional 40 yd long rock garden on a large 2016 Giant Trance.


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## anc67 (Mar 29, 2006)

Raleighguy29 said:


> First ride on mine tonight just a short 8 miler to shake down my new riot build. I put one band on the positive side aired it up to 250. Just realized I didn't adgust the rebound but it still was awesome. Road it in open mode the whole time. Does anybody but me know about the air pressure in the piggy back
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have a Topaz on my Riot as well. Im 175 geared up, run 180 in piggyback and 200 in canister.


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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

PDB said:


> Have you guys found a tuning guide anywhere? My Manual didn't include anything detailed, and I haven't found an indepth guide using google on the internet machine.
> 
> I'm pretty darn happy with my topaz, but i'm still working on that fine tuning (i'm 95% of the way to an ideal all around base tune, and am 85% of the way to having 2 alternative tunes settled on).
> example - Not entirely sure what the effect of a spacer in the negative air chamber is on compression or rebound. Also wondering if there's some internal adjustments that i'm not aware of also.
> ...


My understanding is adding a negative band will allow you to run the same sag with less air pressure and use more travel. So if you arent using full travel with correct sag add band to negative chamber, if you are bottoming out then add band to positive chamber.


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

Go to the DVO website, register your purchase, then send them an email with your questions. I've had excellent experiences. They've even called me to discuss my confusion. It was interesting to learn and experience changes in piggyback pressure, which is an option for tuning, but not the preferred main route to change shock performance. I'm pretty low on the learning curve still and just want to ride it more! Ronnie at DVO emailed me the Topaz service manual which I could not find online. It shows step by step pictures and instructions to change oil and seals. Ride on!


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

MountainBored said:


> Go to the DVO website, register your purchase, then send them an email with your questions. I've had excellent experiences. They've even called me to discuss my confusion. It was interesting to learn and experience changes in piggyback pressure, which is an option for tuning, but not the preferred main route to change shock performance. I'm pretty low on the learning curve still and just want to ride it more! Ronnie at DVO emailed me the Topaz service manual which I could not find online. It shows step by step pictures and instructions to change oil and seals. Ride on!


This, I had a response within hours last time, when I had a setup question.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

47 miles and 2674 feet climbed today on my dvo diamond and topaz and both performed flawlessly. Can't imagine ever going back to fox. 


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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

Have about 7 rides on the Topaz and absolutely love this shock. Mounted on a Yeti SB95, I set the sag and am just using all the travel on my rides, perfect. The sensitivity of this shock is unbelievable, not only is it way more plush than the Fox float ctd and Manitou McCloud it replaced but doesn't blow through its travel like the fox and has plenty of mid travel support and pop. 
The traction on the climbs is probably the most surprising aspect. In lose, steep rocky accents where I normally have to be on my game while standing and grinding this thing hugs the ground and tractors up.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

So I got my Topaz this week for my v1 Bronson CC. I used to run a DBAir CS, but it's crapped the bed too many times and it always seems to get soft about 300-400 miles after the last rebuild. I mean, REALLY soft, like pedaling jello. I've already had to do two rebuilds this year. 

I decided to give the Topaz a shot, hoping it would be more reliable but feel as good as the DBAir when the rebuild is done. The lack of LSC and HSR worried me some, but the other adjustments seemed interesting. 

For starters, the way it arrived was just awesome, I've never had any other bike parts arrive so well packaged. It appears to be a handgun case with their logo on it, but all the foam cutouts inside were really a nice touch and the pump works really well. 

I had been in touch with DVO about how to set it up for my bike a few days beforehand, they recommended 2 volume spacers on the positive side, 3 clicks of rebound, ~230psi in the main chamber and ~190psi in the bladder.

My mounting hardware arrived a day late (UGH, not from DVO, from someone else), but I got everything installed and aired it up. The first thing I noticed is that the bladder has a very low volume, if you pump it to the correct PSI, then attach another pump to check the pressure, you are going to lose about 20-30 psi in the process due to the air filling the pump and gauge. I asked them to make sure this wasn't an issue with the valve on my shock and they said that is normal. 

I got it all set up and went for a quick ride around the neighborhood (it was getting dark). I noticed, upon returning, that the main chamber appears to have had some grease blow out around the main seal. There was also some loss in air pressure. I was a little worried the seal was messed up, but it ended up eventually stopping and the shock holds air fine. I asked about it anyway (I'm about to goto NC for 2 weeks and wanted to have my ducks in a row) and they said sometimes that happens when it's new, but it should normalize with no more grease and no more pressure loss. He also indicated the pressure loss was likely a result of the positive and negative chambers equalizing. That was my experience, because it hasn't been a problem since the first day riding it around the neighborhood. 

At any rate, I got out on the trail yesterday to see how it felt and I really got on it. I don't normally do drops and jumps, but I wanted to cycle it as much as I could and I really pounded it to make sure the seal issue we discussed before was no longer a problem. It wasn't and the shock felt great. 

On the trail, the bike feels so much more responsive and stiffer. I can get up and pound on the pedals, feeling almost an instant response, where before it was much more sluggish. The bike overall feels like it has a lot more support all the way through the stroke of the shock and the bike's travel range. In pedaling and pumping, I get much faster and more efficient responses from the bike than I did on the DBAir (except shortly after rebuild). 

It does feel like it gives up a little bit of plushness from the DBAir, but not much. My DBAir had also "gone soft" in the last few weeks and that's probably why, so it's not a great comparison. 

In the middle compression setting, it does feel a lot harsher than wide open and I noticed on some technical climbs, I lost traction in a few areas I normally didn't. The climb setting is super stiff, probably too much so for this bike. In wide open, it feels really close to the DBAir and is still more supportive throughout the stroke, I don't feel like it's wallowing around in it's travel. I could probably run it wide open most of the time and it not be a problem, the trail setting seems more efficient for general trail riding, even though you give up some plushness. 

I rode a technical and semi-steep descent with it yesterday down a short DH race course that was set up for a coming race. It's nothing super technical (maybe intermediate level), but it had a mix of drops (built and natural), rollers, and a pretty nice rock garden. I rolled everything, but the shock performed really well and I never felt like I was lacking in braking traction or plushness.

The real test will be next week, I'm going to be in Brevard and riding Pisgah and Dupont. It'll be a wide range of longish descents, some smooth and some technical, which I think will really give me a better idea of how well it performs. 

All in all, I'm happy with it and I'm considering replacing my Pike with a Diamond.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Glad you are enjoying it. That bit of grease with the shock is normal and nothing to worry about. I think when you ride in western NC, you will be quite happy with the shock. Been on mine since the thread started on two different frames and it's still going strong with zero breakaway resistance


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## dvd31 (Jul 27, 2014)

kpm700 said:


> Here's my Hightower. Red decals should be here this week. So far night and day difference from the Monarch and just as good if not better than the Float X I had on my last bike. I need a few more rides to dial it in though.
> 
> I'm 230 geared up, running 215 psi, 2 spacers on the negative side and 4 clicks of rebound. I think I need to bump up the psi a bit.


I am confused regarding the volume spacers, in some videos DVO recomends for VPP bikes 1-2 spacers in positive side, in some 1-2 in negative?

If i got it right, if you put the spacers in the positive side, you prevent bottom out.
If you put spacers in negative side, the firs part of the travel will be harder?


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

putting spacers in the negative side reduces the amount of air pressure you need for a given sag and means it doesnt ramp up so much at the end.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Just got mine set up on my E29 (using a bikeyoke) a few days ago, in time for a 32-mile epic ride. Seriously couldn't be happier. I cleaned several rocky/loose climbs that would have been a problem on my CCDBACS. Downhill was smoooooth like butter. 

I was a little worried about losing all the adjustments on the CCDBA but the Topaz was instantly as good as the DBAir ever was. The DVO guys were really helpful in getting it initially set up, too. 

Currently running a Fox 36 up front and it's a perfect match for it, but definitely will be getting a Diamond next time.


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## andrealoverde (Oct 17, 2016)

MountainBored said:


> Ha!
> I rode my Topaz for weeks before realizing I had not pumped up the piggy back aka bladder. It had tons of linear travel under inflated and is much more firm now with 190 psi.
> 
> I'm 200lbs when geared up and running 220 psi in the big can and 190 psi in the small one. No need for volume reducers yet. I ride lots of flowy trails with small drops, jumps, and the occasional 40 yd long rock garden on a large 2016 Giant Trance.


Hey MountainBored, may I ask you which size of Topaz you installed in your Trance? (200x57 or 200x51) ?


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

andrealoverde said:


> Hey MountainBored, may I ask you which size of Topaz you installed in your Trance? (200x57 or 200x51) ?


I chose the 200x51, as I did not want to drop the bike any lower because where I ride I already have to avoid pedal strikes on rocks. I also still have the stock 140mm RS Sektor Gold front shock fork, and didn't want to go with more travel in the rear vs. front.

Now I am saving $$$ for a 160mm DVO fork to get more travel and laid-back front geo. Then, a 200x57 DVO Jade for those big mountain trips with lift service! Coil springs are awesome, but too heavy and heavy duty for 90% of my normal riding.


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

What psi is recommended in the bladder?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

CHROMAG19 said:


> What psi is recommended in the bladder?


170-200

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

Lol.. Good one.


rollertoaster said:


> 170-200
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

MountainBored said:


> I chose the 200x51, as I did not want to drop the bike any lower because where I ride I already have to avoid pedal strikes on rocks. I also still have the stock 140mm RS Sektor Gold front shock fork, and didn't want to go with more travel in the rear vs. front.
> 
> Now I am saving $$$ for a 160mm DVO fork to get more travel and laid-back front geo. Then, a 200x57 DVO Jade for those big mountain trips with lift service! Coil springs are awesome, but too heavy and heavy duty for 90% of my normal riding.


I have the diamond and topaz combo on my riot and it's awesome

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## savo (Oct 15, 2009)

how do the Topaz mix with progressive leverage rates, where a coil shock would be the best match? does it feel like a large volume air shock or a small volume one? would it give excessive end stroke ramp?


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Porch said:


> Just got mine set up on my E29 (using a bikeyoke) a few days ago, in time for a 32-mile epic ride. Seriously couldn't be happier. I cleaned several rocky/loose climbs that would have been a problem on my CCDBACS. Downhill was smoooooth like butter.
> 
> I was a little worried about losing all the adjustments on the CCDBA but the Topaz was instantly as good as the DBAir ever was. The DVO guys were really helpful in getting it initially set up, too.
> 
> Currently running a Fox 36 up front and it's a perfect match for it, but definitely will be getting a Diamond next time.


Glad to hear more CCDBA conversion stories. I feel a bit odd moving from such a nice adjustable shock to one with a lot less adjustment and keep thinking there is something I was missing on the DBAir setup, but the Topaz just feels awesome all around.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Have to say the dvo suspension on the riot is a match made in heaven

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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

So how often do you all hit the shock with more air?
On any other (Fox/RS) shock?
On your DVO Topaz?

Mine needs more air monthly...it just seems to get too saggy. So, I top it off. 
I pump it back to 220 psi with the DVO shock pump included with the Topaz, and am good to go! But, just wondering if this is normal....


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## EvilBkr (Mar 14, 2006)

I just installed a Topaz on my Transition Smuggler. I replaced the stock Rockshox Monarch RT3. I have to say that the Topaz is way more responsive. For reference I set the shock up similar to my RT3 with two volume spacers in the positive side of the air-can. I weigh about 175lbs. with my equipment and I'm running 4 clicks of rebound, 175 PSI in the main chamber and 170 PSI in the reservoir, which got me to about %30 sag.

This thing is almost disconcertingly supple, it is so smooth and requires almost no effort to get it moving. This thing smooths out the smallest judder bumps and gobbles up the biggest hits all the while allowing the rear wheel to track with out issues.

The Topaz is a noticeable upgrade from the RT3.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

EvilBkr said:


> I just installed a Topaz on my Transition Smuggler. I replaced the stock Rockshox Monarch RT3. I have to say that the Topaz is way more responsive. For reference I set the shock up similar to my RT3 with two volume spacers in the positive side of the air-can. I weigh about 175lbs. with my equipment and I'm running 4 clicks of rebound, 175 PSI in the main chamber and 170 PSI in the reservoir, which got me to about %30 sag.
> 
> This thing is almost disconcertingly supple, it is so smooth and requires almost no effort to get it moving. This thing smooths out the smallest judder bumps and gobbles up the biggest hits all the while allowing the rear wheel to track with out issues.
> 
> The Topaz is a noticeable upgrade from the RT3.


I'm having similar experiences on my scout. I put in 3 spacers on the positive side. Post up a picture of that Smuggler man!


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Raleighguy29 said:


> Have to say the dvo suspension on the riot is a match made in heaven


How is your Diamond setup for riding in Pisgah?

Now that I have the Topaz and like it so much, I'm thinking about going with a Diamond up front. I'm curious what your settings are for riding up here.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Adodero said:


> How is your Diamond setup for riding in Pisgah?
> 
> Now that I have the Topaz and like it so much, I'm thinking about going with a Diamond up front. I'm curious what your settings are for riding up here.


I set it up with the base settings in the manual and I've tweaked it a little from there I'm 200-220 geared up depending on where I'm riding. All I know is the dvo blows away the pike I've had before and the pike is a great fork but the dvo stuff is just so smooth. Pedaling platform on the topaz is amazing. I run it in wide open all the time never found a reason to flip the switch with the riot to trail or climb.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, can anyone explain what adding more/less psi to the piggyback on the topaz? Also is there some rule of thumb to follow, like 200psi in the shock, how much would be in the piggyback?
Thanks!


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

MountainBored said:


> Mine needs more air monthly...it just seems to get too saggy. So, I top it off.
> I pump it back to 220 psi with the DVO shock pump included with the Topaz, and am good to go! But, just wondering if this is normal....


I would contact DVO and explain what is going on. I haven't had to re-air my Topaz ever, that's in the almost year I have been riding it. I'll hit it with a few psi or lower it pending my weight i'm riding at or type of terrain (think bike park versus trail) but I almost never touch it.

Adding more or less psi to the piggyback helps with progressiveness and those high speed compression hits as it's affecting the bladder there that is compressed.


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

I have 210psi in the shock and 175psi in the piggy back. World of difference.


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

MountainBored said:


> So how often do you all hit the shock with more air?
> On any other (Fox/RS) shock?
> On your DVO Topaz?
> 
> ...


I also have to keep airing my Topaz up . It drops about 10psi . I love the shock but a little annoying.


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## Kevlar3D (Apr 30, 2013)

Mine leaks too. I have to pump mine up every few rides, as Chromag said... its annoying. Also seems to leak more grease than it should but otherwise works like a dream.


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## evilbullit (Feb 6, 2004)

kpm700 said:


> I just got my Topaz mounted up on my Hightower last night and am curious what everyone's settings are with psi, spacers and weight.
> 
> I weight 230 geared up and DVO recommended 2 spacers on the negative side and 30% sag. Felt pretty good around the neighborhood but I'll need to see how it is on the trail.


Any ride updates??? Settings, etc? Im also about 230 geared up.

I got my Hightower about a 2 weeks ago, and really looking to upgrade the shock.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

I'll update my prior posts on this. I replaced my DBAir CS with a Topaz about a month or so ago, then went for a two week working vacation in Brevard, NC to do some riding. I ended up with about 120 miles up there in the two weeks (That's a lot for me, I am a noob and recovering from 8yrs of sedentary lifestyle), some in Pisgah, some in Dupont, and some in Bent Creek. 

On the climbs, locking it out makes the back end really stiff, it still blows out on bigger hits, but I've noticed it really helps on the fire road climbs, which is really nice. The climb switch on the DBAir CS would provide a little more firmness, but nowhere near what the DVO does.

On the smoother DH trails (Hilltop, Hooker Creek, Ridgeline, etc), the bike felt really responsive. It felt like it cornered better, pumping provided almost an instant response, and traction was never an issue. I never felt like it was wallowing around in the travel when it hit a brake bump or small root at speed like the DBAir did sometimes. Overall, awesome. 

On the more technical trails (Black, Bennett, Cedar, Burnt, etc), the shock seemed to provide the same support, but still be plush when it needed to be. I didn't feel like it was overly harsh (e.g. CTD) on repeated small impacts, although it did seem to sacrifice a little bit of plushness over the DBAir, although not enough that it was really a problem or beyond slightly noticeable. 

On both DHs and climbs, I cleared sections I'd never been able to clear before, so there is that also. 

I will add that the "Trail" setting does seem fairly harsh going downhill with any speed, I can tell a tangible difference between trail and open, it feels like a wide change. I've found that the middle setting seems to work well for technical climbs or trails that are more up and down, although I could probably run it wide open without an issue and it still be more supportive than the DBAir. 

Probably one of the best upgrades I've made to my bike. The fact it's user serviceable is awesome, I am tired of sending my DBAir back to Cane Creek, only to have it need to be rebuild again 3-4 months later. 

I wanted to buy a Diamond, but I run a DHF 2.5 WT up front and it seems like tire clearance is an issue with anything over 2.4


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

I'm on a DHF wt 2.5 and it fits fine. With a lot of sticky mud it could be a problem though.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

The Boost version has a lot more room in the arch.


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## dvd31 (Jul 27, 2014)

Does anyone know if it possible to make the Topaz in the climb mode firmer? Something like Fox Float X Evol

Thanks!


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

CHROMAG19 said:


> I also have to keep airing my Topaz up . It drops about 10psi . I love the shock but a little annoying.


Just a question to those who are saying it's dropping 10 psi. What are you measuring when you hook the pump back up? 10 psi from what you left it at last time...? May sound simple, but just remember that when you hook up your shock pump you will generally drop about 10 psi to charge the pump line and the pump gauge. May sound simple, but it's something often overlooked.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

What he said ^

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Can someone compare it to 

Mcleod 
Monarch plus
Vector air
Or 
BOS kirk? 

Would be interesting to hear judgements .i had vector coil and air, Bit only a bos vipr. But someone told me,he liked the kirk far more than the vevtor air.seemed to be a large upgrade. 
So on which place can the topaz be set between the others?


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Idaho said:


> Just a question to those who are saying it's dropping 10 psi. What are you measuring when you hook the pump back up? 10 psi from what you left it at last time...? May sound simple, but just remember that when you hook up your shock pump you will generally drop about 10 psi to charge the pump line and the pump gauge. May sound simple, but it's something often overlooked.


This applies to the bladder also, although to a larger extent, I want to say it dropped 25-30 psi when I hooked it up to check the pressure.

That said, I'm dropping in sag over time. After about a month, my sag increased about 2-3mm and I had to add more pressure in.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Compared to Monarch plus it is pretty similar, but I feel like it's more refined in production and in its action. But even if all other things were equal DVO's customer service is out of this world. On that alone I would choose their products over anything else out there.


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## Calhoun (Nov 11, 2008)

max_lombardy said:


> I'm having similar experiences on my scout. I put in 3 spacers on the positive side. Post up a picture of that Smuggler man!





max_lombardy said:


> Compared to Monarch plus it is pretty similar, but I feel like it's more refined in production and in its action. But even if all other things were equal DVO's customer service is out of this world. On that alone I would choose their products over anything else out there.


Did you have a RT3 or Monarch Plus on your Scout. Care to elaborate a little more on the differences between the Rock Shox and the DVO?

I have the RT3 on my Scout and I am constantly flipping the lever, I feel like I need a setting between open and middle. The shock also blows through the mid stroke too fast in the high speed rocks and gets overwhelmed in the chatter.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Calhoun said:


> Did you have a RT3 or Monarch Plus on your Scout. Care to elaborate a little more on the differences between the Rock Shox and the DVO?
> 
> I have the RT3 on my Scout and I am constantly flipping the lever, I feel like I need a setting between open and middle. The shock also blows through the mid stroke too fast in the high speed rocks and gets overwhelmed in the chatter.


Yeah I had the stock rt3 on my scout for a while and I had the same thing. I'd use all the travel on medium sized chunk and some of the g-outs I'd blow through it and bottom out in a bad way. Once I damn near broke both ankles on a particularly rough one.

So enter the topaz. I've used full travel on it but never noticed it, it feels much more composed in all situations. Never felt the need to hit the damping switch. I can't recommend it enough.


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## scrat64 (Jul 6, 2015)

MountainBored said:


> Go to the DVO website, register your purchase, then send them an email with your questions. I've had excellent experiences. They've even called me to discuss my confusion. It was interesting to learn and experience changes in piggyback pressure, which is an option for tuning, but not the preferred main route to change shock performance. I'm pretty low on the learning curve still and just want to ride it more! Ronnie at DVO emailed me the Topaz service manual which I could not find online. It shows step by step pictures and instructions to change oil and seals. Ride on!


Hi, can you share this service manual??

Thank's!


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Anyone find the source of the air pressure loss? I'm having the same problem, it's losing ~10psi every 2 weeks or so. We've had a lot of temperature variations the last few weeks, but I've never had that cause a variation in suspension, though.


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## Fluidworks (Oct 3, 2008)

Any word on if the Topaz is going to be offered in metric sizing in the near future?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Adodero said:


> Anyone find the source of the air pressure loss? I'm having the same problem, it's losing ~10psi every 2 weeks or so. We've had a lot of temperature variations the last few weeks, but I've never had that cause a variation in suspension, though.


Sounds like you need to call DVO. There's always someone helpful there and they have the BEST customer service. Nobody on this forum will be able to help you like they can.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Has somebody been able to compare the performance of the jade vs topaz? Great Performance difference?


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## dvd31 (Jul 27, 2014)

scrat64 said:


> Hi, can you share this service manual??
> 
> Thank's!


Hi,

i would also like to ask you for the service manual if possible

thanks!


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## voob (Jan 14, 2011)

Me Too.
I registered my shock with DVO and send them an email re suspension set up and requesting a copy of the service manual. They responded to my suspension question but no service manual. I emailled again requesting a copy but have not received a response.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

voob said:


> Me Too.
> I registered my shock with DVO and send them an email re suspension set up and requesting a copy of the service manual. They responded to my suspension question but no service manual. I emailled again requesting a copy but have not received a response.


Thats my experience ,Too. sometimes quick, sometimes never ;-)


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Yea, they were really responsive for a while, but have been kindof slow responding the last two weeks. Last week was Thanksgiving, so I can't fault them for that, maybe they are catching up?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Adodero said:


> Yea, they were really responsive for a while, but have been kindof slow responding the last two weeks. Last week was Thanksgiving, so I can't fault them for that, maybe they are catching up?


I have a Topaz and got the manual off DVO a few months ago. I've uploaded it into a hightail folder for a few days if you want to download it. I assume sooner or later it will be on their site.

Enjoy 

https://spaces.hightail.com/space/tnSYp


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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

Thanks so much, download worked perfectly. Saved me having to contact DVO although my shock has been performing flawlessly, its nice to have the manual for future service.


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## voob (Jan 14, 2011)

Thank You


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## scrat64 (Jul 6, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> I have a Topaz and got the manual off DVO a few months ago. I've uploaded it into a hightail folder for a few days if you want to download it. I assume sooner or later it will be on their site.
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> https://spaces.hightail.com/space/tnSYp


Thank's!


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

voob said:


> Thank You





scrat64 said:


> Thank's!





Sesostris said:


> Thanks so much, download worked perfectly. Saved me having to contact DVO although my shock has been performing flawlessly, its nice to have the manual for future service.


No problem, glad to be of help.

Must be a few Topaz's needing some service love, 24 downloads in 24 hours!


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## mpersonal (Dec 1, 2016)

thanks so much for posting the service manual. I put together a Banshee Spitfire back in July, and while the Topaz is performing great and showing no signs of any problems, it's probably time to service.
while reading this thread i've realized I have not added any air to the piggyback reservoir, and my current setup is as follows on the Spitfire: 142psi in main chamber, 1 volume spacer in positive side. 
I have experienced a few bottom-outs on bigger hits (4ft to flat type drops) but otherwise the shock and bike are fantastic. Super curious if it will be even better once I set the piggyback chamber. I feel like an idiot for riding an incomplete setup for so long, but I'm stoked to go home and redo all my settings and go ride! And honestly it rides really well as is.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

How do folks feel about the "poppyness" of the Topaz in comparison to their previous shock (particularly if you're on a VPP bike). I want to upgrade my Fox CTD and having read everything I can find on the Topaz, I'm pretty sure that it will be more supple at the bigging and bottom out less. I don't want to lose the poppyness in between though. It's the one thing I like about the Fox.


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## mpersonal (Dec 1, 2016)

Update on my new settings: its incredible. I thought the ride and traction were great prior to this (came from a Remedy w fox rp23, and the Spitty is way more planted). Adding the correct pressure in the bladder just made it so stuck to the ground, but also still poppy when you precompress to do a jump or something. Small bump and midstroke are so plush and traction is insane, but when you push hard into the travel you can still hop.
Im still messing w settings, but im suoer pleased at my current one, which was an educated guess.
Spitfire is a low leverage design, so my psi's are lowish.
Im 195lbs fully geared up and im running 175 in main chamber and 170 in the bladder with two volume reducers on the positive side and one on the negative. 2 clicks of rebound. 
I may up the main pressure a bit and dial in more rebound just to mess around but i hucked the 4ft drop that i had been bottoming on and it was nowhere close to bottoming now and is at about 30%sag.
No question id buy this shock again over the fox ones ive been on. Guys are great when you call with questions and the rebuilds and tuning arent too complicated.


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## CHROMAG19 (Mar 12, 2014)

mpersonal said:


> Update on my new settings: its incredible. I thought the ride and traction were great prior to this (came from a Remedy w fox rp23, and the Spitty is way more planted). Adding the correct pressure in the bladder just made it so stuck to the ground, but also still poppy when you precompress to do a jump or something. Small bump and midstroke are so plush and traction is insane, but when you push hard into the travel you can still hop.
> Im still messing w settings, but im suoer pleased at my current one, which was an educated guess.
> Spitfire is a low leverage design, so my psi's are lowish.
> Im 195lbs fully geared up and im running 175 in main chamber and 170 in the bladder with two volume reducers on the positive side and one on the negative. 2 clicks of rebound.
> ...


Im about your sized geared up and I'm running 210psi in the main and 170psi in the blabber with 2 volume reducers on the positive side . I think I might try 1 in the negative side like you have.


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## mpersonal (Dec 1, 2016)

Stuff ive read says adding to the negative side makes it stay higher in the travel. That may be why im ok at this lower pressure. Im gonna mess around with it yet, but im real happy with it as is.


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## Herzalot (Apr 26, 2009)

I'm about to receive a Topaz to replace my CCDB Inline which replaced my Jade on my DVO Edition Tracer 275c. I never got the Jade to feel good on the Tracer and I had an almost new Cane Creek Inline sitting around, so I experimented with it compared to the Jade and never looked back. Lighter, plusher, faster and more accurate.

The Cane Creek is long overdue for service, so I worked a deal to swap the barely-used Jade for a fairly priced Topaz. Reading this entire thread, I am pretty stoked, although I have much anxiety about how many volume reducers to use on which side, how much air to put in the piggyback and main can and such. People talk about Cane Creek as being complicated - the Topaz sounds like something that will take quite a while to dial in. But it also sounds like it works great even not completely dialed. I'm a little concerned about the stories of leaking air, but I have DVO's phone number, and they answer.

Any recommendations for initial settings? Xl Tracer T275, rider 215 with pack. Aggressive rocky and fast terrain. Small drops 4' or less.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Hi all
I've hosted the topaz manual for downloads for a week. Heaps of downloads which is great. I have to pull it off tomorrow, so last chance to get it from here, otherwise talk to DVO.

https://spaces.hightail.com/space/tnSYp

Cheers


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## voob (Jan 14, 2011)

Herzalot said:


> Any recommendations for initial settings? Xl Tracer T275, rider 215 with pack. Aggressive rocky and fast terrain. Small drops 4' or less.


I just put one on my Carbine 29 and right now I am using the following settings:
riding weight 190-195lbs - Shock 190psi - Bladder 180psi - 2 volume spacers on positive side (I will be trying 1 next ride) - 1 spacer on the negative side - 2-3 clicks of rebound.
I am riding large volume 2.4 tires and air pressure plays a role in the shock feel so take that into consideration too.

It replaced a blown Inline that I was never fully happy with but was an improvement over the stock fox. So far the Topaz is an improvement but I have a Fox X2 on another Intense bike and really like it. I am hoping to get the Topaz to feel similar.


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## Herzalot (Apr 26, 2009)

1st ride today. 220psi in the main can, 190ish? in the small can. No volume reducer bands. XL Tracer T275c. 205lb rider - unkitted - but I always wear a hydration pack, usually with too much water.

My trial run included five descents in the hills of Laguna, which are often very rocky, steep and fast with some small (2-4') high speed drops and ledges.

All I can say is - i didn't notice anything. And that is very high praise. I consider myself a suspension snob, and I am disappointed if a piece of suspension does not feel plush over little trail chatter, or if it dives, bounces, bottoms, tops, bobs or gets easily deflected. The Topaz was silent. Trail chatter was a non issue. Foot-deep holes at speed - no problem. 3 ft. drops to flat - we got this. 

The trail mode wasn't all that noticeable, but the climb mode worked great. I expected it to be too firm and not allow the rear to track the rough stuff. It let the bike settle a little into its travel, and seemed to track the ground very well. This was a notable improvement over the Cane Creek Climb Switch. 

The only adjustment I made was adding 5 psi in the main can and two more clicks of rebound damping (5 clicks in).

My only complaints are minor ergonomics - the detents on the rebound dial are not strong enough to feel, and the three position switch is a little vague feeling too. Minor and inconsequential.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

joining thread


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

Herzalot said:


> 1st ride today. 220psi in the main can, 190ish? in the small can. No volume reducer bands. XL Tracer T275c. 205lb rider - unkitted - but I always wear a hydration pack, usually with too much water.
> .


I think more people should ride their Topaz with no volume reducer bands. I am, and I find it nicely progressive already - BUT I am not chucking/hucking/dropping that much.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm similar weight on a Giant Trance (2016) and have upped to 230psi just because I like it a little firm for corner-outs and climbs during the downhills I ride, and for the long climbs to get there. It's still plush through the rock gardens so all is good.


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## thylaxene (Aug 1, 2011)

Great thread! Have a question if I may. Would the Topaz be a sensible upgrade from the stock Fox on a 2011 Yeti 575? Was looking at a Monarch as I'm running Pikes up front but this shock can be had locally at a good price and being newer in age to the Mon was thinking might be the go! I'm ~230lb geared up.


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## hazmatt480 (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm roughly 230 lbs geared up as well and run a Pike up front and they match well together. I have one band in the negative side and run about 230 psi in the main chamber and 170 in the piggyback and about half way through the rebound...been messing around with that a little though to see if I can dial it a little more, but I am happy with how it performs. I haven't had any issues with my shock handling my weight or horrible line choices and hucks to flat....you won't be disappointed.


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

Quick question about the Topaz

I have a 2016 SC 5010...the website says its 200mm eye to eye, 51mm stroke

On DVO's site, it says it's offered in 200mmx51mm

but on their amazon store it says 200mmx50mm

Is this the same measurement?...I assume so, but just wanted to check before i order


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Same difference


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

max_lombardy said:


> Same difference


cool...i figured

just wanted to check


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## Herzalot (Apr 26, 2009)

Third ride today (XL Tracer 275c - DVO). I added one band to the negative side. Seems pretty perfect right about now. Still invisible when the going gets rowdy - and that's a great thing. On little stuff, it's delightfully supple, even in the "trail" mode. I'm pretty pleased - and as I've said, I am a suspension snob.


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## TheCanary (May 26, 2014)

Having some frame clearance issues with an X2 at the shoulder of the aircan(shaft end), 57mm dia. Wonder if one of you guys could tell me the diameter of the Topaz aircan so I could tell if that might be a better fit option. Thx.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Question about the sizing.. My bike should have a 200x57 shock. But the topaz I purchased seems to say 200x51/57? How can it be both?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Magic


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Maybe its an internal setting amd uses the same body

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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

Def different sizes when you order though. 

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## Jado (Apr 24, 2010)

*Pressure loss possibility*



Adodero said:


> Anyone find the source of the air pressure loss? I'm having the same problem, it's losing ~10psi every 2 weeks or so. We've had a lot of temperature variations the last few weeks, but I've never had that cause a variation in suspension, though.


I found this issue after adding volume spacers. I took the shock off the bike and cleaned thoroughly all the surfaces and regreased the o-ring. Pressure stayed constant again for months. I have since changed the volume spacers (this time with shock on the bike) and it leaks again so I am checking and adding pressure before each ride. I'm presuming if i do the same as before it will resolve it.


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## roadie607 (Jul 6, 2013)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Question about the sizing.. My bike should have a 200x57 shock. But the topaz I purchased seems to say 200x51/57? How can it be both?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I believe the 200mm eye to eye size has internally adjustable stroke length between 51 and 57mm. They're just set at the factory in different sizes, hence the difference when ordering. IIRC


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## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

Subbing - currently have the topaz on a trance 2015 Medium (200x57). 3 bands in positive 1 band in negative and i love it!

Previously had a DBInline. maybe it's my lack in tuning the thing (i did lots of research and played around with it) but the DB was definitely better than stock, however nothing close to the Topaz. I ride local trails and flowy track runs on whistler, but the DBinline couldn't keep up after 20 mins of riding. 

Also I had pressure "leak" every time I rode my bike eg. my sag went from 20 to 30% and I would have to increase pressure. I haven't tried cleaning the seals but upon reading the installation guide, once everything is setup on your bike, it mentioned something about adjusting the bladder PSI along with the main chamber PSI before riding. This is something I overlooked which may have caused the "leak" in the main chamber as PSI needed to equalize between the negative which is affected by the bladder PSI also.

Moving the topaz over to a Reign 2015 Medium Frame in the next couple of weeks, but most likely won't be able to give insights until weather warms up!


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, that is the 2nd reference I've seen to adding bands in the positive and negative.
I've currently got 3 bands in the positive, none in the negative.
Though I am finding I am blowing through the midrange a bit too easily I think.
Would adding an additional band to the positive side help this?
Thanks
Joel


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## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Hey all, that is the 2nd reference I've seen to adding bands in the positive and negative.
> I've currently got 3 bands in the positive, none in the negative.
> Though I am finding I am blowing through the midrange a bit too easily I think.
> Would adding an additional band to the positive side help this?
> ...


there was a post on FB from Dvo along with a graph of adding bands in the negative:

Here's a tech tip on the effect of adding negative bands or volume reducers to the negative side of the Topaz air can. As you can see in the graph the initial part of the travel becomes more supported then transitions nicely into the mid stroke. This would work well on leverage curves that start off high or more linear bikes.

The graphic shows that the more band you put in the negative, the less force is needed to engage the first 20mm of the stroke. The force of negative bands becomes the same as no bands in mid stroke 27mm onwards. It didn't show any information on bands on the positive but since we know it's for bottom out resistance, on a graph you can imagine that it will take more force to engage the last 35mm+ stroke.

Maybe i am wrong but from understanding this, bands in either positive or negative won't affect mid stroke significantly, so to solve your situation:

1) Add more PSI - this will increase the overall force to engage in any part of the stroke.
2) Add a band to negative - this will decrease the force to engage first stroke. This also helps with setting ur sag
3) Remove a band or 2 in positive - this will retain your current force for the end stroke to engage.


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## voob (Jan 14, 2011)

Service manual is now on their website

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/topaz_fullservice.pdf

Topaz | DVO Suspension Tech Website


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## Jado (Apr 24, 2010)

Awesome, thank you!



voob said:


> Service manual is now on their website
> 
> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/topaz_fullservice.pdf
> 
> Topaz | DVO Suspension Tech Website


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

In case anyone is interested, the 50, and 57mm stroke shocks, are physically the same. Just a addition/removal of a nylon spacer converts it. Confirmed by a DVO tech, just figured it may help someone out.

That said, a custom stroke between 50 and 57, is totally possible with some sanding, or a 3D printer.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Does anyone ride it in a transition patrol and can report in it? 

Smuggler would be interesting as well.

THX


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## Jado (Apr 24, 2010)

Jado said:


> I found this issue after adding volume spacers. I took the shock off the bike and cleaned thoroughly all the surfaces and regreased the o-ring. Pressure stayed constant again for months. I have since changed the volume spacers (this time with shock on the bike) and it leaks again so I am checking and adding pressure before each ride. I'm presuming if i do the same as before it will resolve it.


Just following up on this. I managed to clean the o rings and re-grease them, and now the shock holds pressure perfectly - even after a few weeks


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

I pick up my new Hightower Saturday 

Do you need separate mounting hardware for the DVO? If so, where did you get it?



kpm700 said:


> Here's my Hightower. Red decals should be here this week. So far night and day difference from the Monarch and just as good if not better than the Float X I had on my last bike. I need a few more rides to dial it in though.
> 
> I'm 230 geared up, running 215 psi, 2 spacers on the negative side and 4 clicks of rebound. I think I need to bump up the psi a bit.


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## kpm700 (Aug 7, 2007)

DevinciSean said:


> I pick up my new Hightower Saturday
> 
> Do you need separate mounting hardware for the DVO? If so, where did you get it?


Nice! Congrats man!

I got the mounting hardware directly though DVO. Just call them up and they'll get you taken care of.


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

Hey thanks, not use to that level of customer engagement! Was just on their site and they have all the parts there, very impressed.

One last question, where did you source the custom decals for the Topaz (I didn't see those on the site)?



kpm700 said:


> Nice! Congrats man!
> 
> I got the mounting hardware directly though DVO. Just call them up and they'll get you taken care of.


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## kpm700 (Aug 7, 2007)

DevinciSean said:


> Hey thanks, not use to that level of customer engagement! Was just on their site and they have all the parts there, very impressed.
> 
> One last question, where did you source the custom decals for the Topaz (I didn't see those on the site)?


I ordered my decals from invisiframe:

http://www.invisiframe.co.uk/DVO-REAR-SHOCK-KIT/DVO-TOPAZ-T3-AIR

I've been super happy with them.


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

DevinciSean said:


> I pick up my new Hightower Saturday
> 
> Do you need separate mounting hardware for the DVO? If so, where did you get it?


I used the same mounting hardware on my 5010 that came with the Fox shock...it works with the DVO too

I also ordered my custom graphic from Invisiframe....shipped out pretty quick, and their customer service is great


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Anyone had the opportunity to test out the difference between DVO topaz and Jade on the same bike and could feel a real difference besides weight and which ? 
Cheers


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

bansaiman said:


> Anyone had the opportunity to test out the difference between DVO topaz and Jade on the same bike and could feel a real difference besides weight and which ?
> Cheers


I haven't had the chance yet but as soon as it drys out around here enough I'm going to demo a jade on my riot just to see how it feels compared to the topaz.

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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I haven't had the chance yet but as soon as it drys out around here enough I'm going to demo a jade on my riot just to see how it feels compared to the topaz.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


As someone wants to trade his topaz against my jade I only have time to friday to decide : -D could you pleeeeease Do me a favor and get to ride the next days till thursday. I really would be thankful 
Especially nice is the possibility to add neg spacers to lower initial force and add midsupport


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## Herzalot (Apr 26, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> Anyone had the opportunity to test out the difference between DVO topaz and Jade on the same bike and could feel a real difference besides weight and which ?
> Cheers


I have ridden both on my DVO Edition Intense Tracer 275c. I had experience with coil shocks on my DH bikes and was looking forward to the plushness of the Jade. It never happened. I am pretty good at dialing in pre-load, rebound, compression and other settings to get things right for me. In 6 rides, I was not happy. I've never had a coil shock on a bike I intended to climb on (a trail bike) so I found myself running too much rebound damping to keep it from bobbing while climbing. It was skittery and easily overwhelmed on high speed descents through foot-deep holes and braking bumps. Probably because of the rebound setting.

After 6 rides, I decided to experiment with my Cane Creek Inline that I had which happened to have the right dimensions. Other than instantly dropping a pound of weight, it was more plush and climbed better. The bike was no longer overwhelmed on descents, and was a lot more solid climbing than with the coil Jade.

I now have a Topaz on it. It's perfect. As plush as the Cane Creek, but it will not overheat. The three-position switch offers much better climbing support than the CC climb switch, while still allowing travel for uphill traction. After 12 serious rides, really testing the shock through rock gardens, 3-4' drops, high speed chop, slow speed steeps with significant rock roll downs and even some flowy, bermy trails, what I can say is - the shock "disappears." I never notice it - and that's extremely high praise from a picky suspension snob.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Herzalot said:


> I have ridden both on my DVO Edition Intense Tracer 275c. I had experience with coil shocks on my DH bikes and was looking forward to the plushness of the Jade. It never happened. I am pretty good at dialing in pre-load, rebound, compression and other settings to get things right for me. In 6 rides, I was not happy. I've never had a coil shock on a bike I intended to climb on (a trail bike) so I found myself running too much rebound damping to keep it from bobbing while climbing. It was skittery and easily overwhelmed on high speed descents through foot-deep holes and braking bumps. Probably because of the rebound setting.
> 
> After 6 rides, I decided to experiment with my Cane Creek Inline that I had which happened to have the right dimensions. Other than instantly dropping a pound of weight, it was more plush and climbed better. The bike was no longer overwhelmed on descents, and was a lot more solid climbing than with the coil Jade.
> 
> I now have a Topaz on it. It's perfect. As plush as the Cane Creek, but it will not overheat. The three-position switch offers much better climbing support than the CC climb switch, while still allowing travel for uphill traction. After 12 serious rides, really testing the shock through rock gardens, 3-4' drops, high speed chop, slow speed steeps with significant rock roll downs and even some flowy, bermy trails, what I can say is - the shock "disappears." I never notice it - and that's extremely high praise from a picky suspension snob.


1)My jade, of course, offers great Support in the mids. How does the topaz compare in that Department?

2)did you have enough sag with the jade?


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## Herzalot (Apr 26, 2009)

bansaiman said:


> 1)My jade, of course, offers great Support in the mids. How does the topaz compare in that Department?
> 
> 2)did you have enough sag with the jade?


I had plenty of sag on the Jade. I weigh 215lbs with hydro pack.

Mid stroke support is as much a function of suspension design and leverage curves as it is shock design. My generation of VPP on my Tracer was notorious for having a hole in the mid stroke. It feels pretty supportive and progressive in the mid-stroke to me, with the Topaz. I don't bottom out, and it's plush all the way through the stroke. 225 psi in main can, 185-190 in little can. One band in negative side.

I'm very satisfied. Of course, i just got my rebuilt CC DBi back from Cane Creek, and they put a black stanchion on it. Mmmmmm.... temptation. I still think the Topaz with its remote reservoir and better climb switch is a better match for my Tracer.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Herzalot said:


> I had plenty of sag on the Jade. I weigh 215lbs with hydro pack.
> 
> Mid stroke support is as much a function of suspension design and leverage curves as it is shock design. My generation of VPP on my Tracer was notorious for having a hole in the mid stroke. It feels pretty supportive and progressive in the mid-stroke to me, with the Topaz. I don't bottom out, and it's plush all the way through the stroke. 225 psi in main can, 185-190 in little can. One band in negative side.
> 
> I'm very satisfied. Of course, i just got my rebuilt CC DBi back from Cane Creek, and they put a black stanchion on it. Mmmmmm.... temptation. I still think the Topaz with its remote reservoir and better climb switch is a better match for my Tracer.


I am So surprised that this simple adjustable shock (besides the precise tweakable airspring) is preferred from many riders even over a proper ccdba, not inline. 
When comparing jade and my marzocchi 053 in the patrol I can feel a noticeable difference at 30 %sag in midstroke support. That is why i am really asking for experience from other riders as I will not be able to compare them in a bike.

PS your topaz has black stanchions, Top. So rather use it as Main shock if it is noticeable better than the inline ;-)

So the guy with the riot please post your experience when you ve ridden both: -)


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## Herzalot (Apr 26, 2009)

@bansaiman The Topaz gives you plenty of options to keep you in the same state of constant angst as the Cane Creek - how many bands in the positive side? How many in the negative side? How much air in the remote bladder? How much air in the main can? Maybe riding with the switch in the middle position is best? Do I have enough rebound damping?

Fortunately for me, I usually find a great setting and then stop tweaking it, whether it's the Topaz or the CC. I understand there are others who exist in a constant state of "maybe I should try X."

My comments about the black stanchions on the Cane Creek was meant as humor. The Topaz looks awesome on my Tracer!


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Herzalot said:


> @bansaiman The Topaz gives you plenty of options to keep you in the same state of constant angst as the Cane Creek - how many bands in the positive side? How many in the negative side? How much air in the remote bladder? How much air in the main can? Maybe riding with the switch in the middle position is best? Do I have enough rebound damping?
> 
> Fortunately for me, I usually find a great setting and then stop tweaking it. I understand there are others who exist in a constant state of "maybe I should try X."
> 
> My comments about the black stanchions on the Cane Creek was meant as humor. The Topaz looks awesome on my Tracer!


Please ReRead ;-)
It was all about Topaz vs JADE for me not ccdb. 
If it is only a bit more stiction than real coil but at least as well damped and nearly as good midsupport, i' m in for the topaz.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

How does this shock compare to the RS Monarch RC3+Debonair? The issues I've had with two Monarchs on two different bikes is that if I slow down the rebound enough to not get bucked off, the shock feels harsh. If I back out the rebound to not feel harsh then i really have to use good technique to not get bucked off.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

matadorCE said:


> How does this shock compare to the RS Monarch RC3+Debonair? The issues I've had with two Monarchs on two different bikes is that if I slow down the rebound enough to not get bucked off, the shock feels harsh. If I back out the rebound to not feel harsh then i really have to use good technique to not get bucked off.


Rebound damper circuits can be revalved / adjusted. Sounds like you may be having some trouble finding a middle ground with your rebound damping - I have found that Rockshox's "Rapid Recovery" rebound valving requires that you run faster-than-normal rebound to achieve an appropriate feel. Try running your rebound somewhere around the middle of the range, slightly toward the fast end of things. I doubt the rebound damping on the Topaz is anything revolutionary - most of the difference in suspension these days seems to manifest as compression damping, at least in my experience.


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## thylaxene (Aug 1, 2011)

I've got mine fitted on the the 2011 Yeti 575 Anniversary. Had kittens when I first got the shock as it came with no mounting hardware and cream coloured lipped bushings installed. Which didn't fit the Yeti at all. But after an email exchange on the weekend (!) with tech support at DVO I soon had them removed and the old Fox bushings that came with the Yeti pressed in and all installed. I would say DVO has the best tech support I've even used. I sent the email in AU on the weekend and within the hour I was having an email exchange with a very helpful and patient person. If this shock even works half as good as it looks like it should DVO has just made a new loyal customer!

Will follow this up once I have it dialled in using helpful hints on this thread. Thanks!

Cheers.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

matadorCE said:


> How does this shock compare to the RS Monarch RC3+Debonair? The issues I've had with two Monarchs on two different bikes is that if I slow down the rebound enough to not get bucked off, the shock feels harsh. If I back out the rebound to not feel harsh then i really have to use good technique to not get bucked off.


Somewhere around 2013, RS started using really large bypasses coupled with a preloaded stack on rebound. This gives the shock a large adjustment range on rebound and really compromises the action unless your weight is in the sweat spot. Rapid recovery is just marketing bs. With certain rider weights, usually the lighter half, and spring curves, this produces a lack of hsr when the lsr is dialed for small bump, exactly as you describe. You're not crazy. This can be hard to tune for by just simply changing the stiffness of a straight rebound stack. Not to mention, you have a large range of adjustment adivided by only 9 clicks, which is rather coarse.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

ktm520 said:


> Somewhere around 2013, RS started using really large bypasses coupled with a preloaded stack on rebound. This gives the shock a large adjustment range on rebound and really compromises the action unless your weight is in the sweat spot. Rapid recovery is just marketing bs. With certain rider weights, usually the lighter half, and spring curves, this produces a lack of hsr when the lsr is dialed for small bump, exactly as you describe. You're not crazy. This can be hard to tune for by just simply changing the stiffness of a straight rebound stack. Not to mention, you have a large range of adjustment adivided by only 9 clicks, which is rather coarse.


Thanks for the insight. I'm not a light rider (240lbs) but I've had two Monarchs now that I couldn't slow down rebound enough and not feel like total junk while riding. This was all on vpp bikes, so I don't know if this made the problem worse/better/no effect at all.

I picked up a Topaz and tested it out this weekend. So far it's noticeably superior to a Monarch and almost as good as the Vivid Air RC2 I had on the bike previously. I'm running no bands on the positive side and 1 band on the negative side, 255lbs of air to get around 30% sag and 180lbs in the bladder. It's still now 100% happy with the feel of the shock; I can slow down the rebound enough to feel good for most of my riding but packs down on the high speed segments of my ride.


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

matadorCE said:


> 255lbs of air to get around 30% sag and 180lbs in the bladder.


try more air in the little bladder and then you can hopefully add less air to the big can to get the same sag.

the DVO tech explained to me that the little bladder should be 180-200 lbs PSI depending on your weight. I weigh 200 lbs +/- and they suggested 190 PSI in the little can. For you, probably 200 PSI in the little can.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

MountainBored said:


> try more air in the little bladder and then you can hopefully add less air to the big can to get the same sag.
> 
> the DVO tech explained to me that the little bladder should be 180-200 lbs PSI depending on your weight. I weigh 200 lbs +/- and they suggested 190 PSI in the little can. For you, probably 200 PSI in the little can.


I thought more air in the bladder results in a harsher ride, which isn't what i'm looking for but I'll give it a try. Also, would adding another spacer in the negative side result in needing less air for the same amount of sag?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Better call DVO for setup tips. When Ronnie explained it to me he said to run 175# (I weigh 150 soaking wet and fairly aggressive rider). The way he explained it was that the heavier and more aggressive you are the more air you should use in the rezzy because it basically just stabilizes the expansion bladder.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

More air in the bladder will help with bottom out. You could try adding a little bit more pressure and adding a click of rebound to compensate for the faster rebound speed the shock would then have.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2017)

Is the topaz T3air the same as the original topaz in terms of available adjustments, functionality etc?? or is it a new version??

TOPAZ T3AIR_ | DVO Suspension


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

nvphatty said:


> Is the topaz T3air the same as the original topaz in terms of available adjustments, functionality etc?? or is it a new version??
> 
> TOPAZ T3AIR_ | DVO Suspension


Its the original. I have one the first and it's called the T3 AIR


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

Idaho said:


> Didn't see a thread on this so I figured I would start one for those interested in the shock. I got mine a couple of weeks ago and so far only have one ride on it due to work requiring me to be away from home.
> 
> The Topaz came in its own custom hard case including a pump and volume spacers. I got it to replace the double barrel inline that my Knolly came with and from the one ride I have on it, the Topaz is feeling much better. This most likely is due to being a better pairing with my DVO fork and also just more volume to soak up larger hits. I think I'll be adding a volume spacer when I return home shortly and see how it is feeling after that. For the first ride, the shock didn't feel sloppy for stand up pedaling, bottomed out without me noticing, and has VERY little breakaway force required. So far I haven't had a shock with this little breakaway force which is proving to be pretty incredible.
> 
> ...


I have to ask! Where did you find that axle in green???? I have been looking everywhere, but apparently not in the right spot....


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

Wait, thats a DVO fork, isnt it? CRAP!!!


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2017)

Awaiting a topazT3 for my heckler.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, I'm replacing the bushings on my topaz. The ones that came off where a bit different though as where from a fox I think. 
Any advice which way this goes back together? The small oring first or last?









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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

You swapped the newer style white poly bushing to the older metal DU bushing. The reducer hardware is not cross compatible due to different spacing. Either style bushing will work with their respective hardware, however, I'd suggest pressing that DU bushing out and replacing it with the poly bushing (what DVO and Fox now specs).


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Confused more now.. as DVO only just sent this stuff out to me.. 
Is that not what I should be using?










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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

Yes, that hardware needs to be used with the white poly bushings, not the metal DU bushings that you have installed.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Ahh ok. So need some poly bushings too. 

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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

So I need this as well? 









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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> So I need this as well?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Joel,
You need these to replace the metal bushings you pressed in. You have the right hardware, but the wrong bushings.


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## Guest (Feb 12, 2017)

fresh tracks said:


> Its the original. I have one the first and it's called the T3 AIR


appreciate the confirmation.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

The bike shop installed the metal bushings when I purchased I guess. As never put that in. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Jlowe33 (Jan 28, 2015)

Is there any info out there on changing the tune on this shock, or do you have to send it in? 
I have this on my 2016 Meta V4 and overall the shock feels ok on drops and general trail riding, but over high speed chunky sections the rear end feels pretty harsh. Almost like it's packing up? But I'm only running 1 click in from full fast rebound. 
Do I need to look at the high speed compression circuit and possibly de-tune the rebound circuit as well? 
Other settings are about 195psi in the main chamber for 30% sag and 180psi in the bladder, and 2 bands in the positive chamber.


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## strongbear0 (Aug 30, 2015)

kpm700 said:


> Here's my Hightower. Red decals should be here this week. So far night and day difference from the Monarch and just as good if not better than the Float X I had on my last bike. I need a few more rides to dial it in though.
> 
> I'm 230 geared up, running 215 psi, 2 spacers on the negative side and 4 clicks of rebound. I think I need to bump up the psi a bit.


What tune is on your topaz? Stock tune? I was thinking about buying one but I know the monarch on the Hightower comes with a L/L tune. We're almost the same weight geared up so it's a good comparison.

Thanks


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## kpm700 (Aug 7, 2007)

strongbear0 said:


> What tune is on your topaz? Stock tune? I was thinking about buying one but I know the monarch on the Hightower comes with a L/L tune. We're almost the same weight geared up so it's a good comparison.
> 
> Thanks


Yes, stock tune. I ordered it from Jenson


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## strongbear0 (Aug 30, 2015)

Thanks kmp, my wheels show up today so I can finally build up my bike. I'll ride the stock monarch, but from what I've read heavier riders seem to be pulling them off quickly so I'm on the hunt for a better rear shock. Narrowed it down to this and the float x or x2.


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

I weight about 210 and have 250psi 2 spacers in positive and 1 spacer in negative, but still seems like I'm a tad low on sag. Do i really keep adding air?

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

srbecker said:


> I weight about 210 and have 250psi 2 spacers in positive and 1 spacer in negative, but still seems like I'm a tad low on sag. Do i really keep adding air?
> 
> Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk


Try adding a couple more spacers in the negative side.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

What do you mean "low on sag"?

Like it's riding low (aka too much sag)? Yes add pressure. 

Not enough sag? No don't add pressure. add more negative bands.


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

When setting the shock up and setting intial sag, It sags too much. I have 250psi and i still get near 40% sag. I read somewhere adding 1 band to the negative side would help with that.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

A lot of the questions popping up on here can be given some guidance on the DVO tech page for the Topaz.

Here is the link:
Topaz | DVO Suspension Tech Website

For heavier riders, bumping the bladder pressure up to 200psi will also be a great benefit to the bike. Just be cautious when going to check the pressure with your shock pump as it will almost always look at least 15 or more psi lower than what it was before hooking up the pump. That bladder air chamber is just so small it will take a massive hit from it to fill your shock pump and register on the gauge when hooking up initially.


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## voob (Jan 14, 2011)

PreCharge your Air Pump


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

Hangtime said:


> Switched to the Topaz on my Spitfire and it completely changed the feel of the bike. I had an XFusion O2 prior to the DVO. The Topaz is super smooth on the small chatter and with two spacers it ramps up nicely on the bigger hits leaving me with about 2-3mm to go. Not to bad seeing that I'm 240 geared up. At 28-30% sag = 250psi with 4 turns out from slow on the rebound. I'm now thinking about a Diamond fork to match it.


Your a tad heavier than me, but I am sure our setups will be similar. My psi is currently at 255psi and i still exceed the 30% sag. Did you add the spacers to the positive or negative side?


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

I weigh around 240-245 geared up and had to put about 260-265 psi in the shock to get less than 30% sag. I played around with band on the negative side but things didn't change that much.


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## Guest (Feb 20, 2017)

voob said:


> PreCharge your Air Pump


me likey this technique.


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## dngr (Jul 26, 2009)

Any word on when this will be released in metric sizes? Would like a Topaz to pair with my Diamond on my 2017 Patrol


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## Damon (Aug 1, 2006)

voob said:


> I just put one on my Carbine 29 and right now I am using the following settings:
> riding weight 190-195lbs - Shock 190psi - Bladder 180psi - 2 volume spacers on positive side (I will be trying 1 next ride) - 1 spacer on the negative side - 2-3 clicks of rebound.
> I am riding large volume 2.4 tires and air pressure plays a role in the shock feel so take that into consideration too.
> 
> It replaced a blown Inline that I was never fully happy with but was an improvement over the stock fox. So far the Topaz is an improvement but I have a Fox X2 on another Intense bike and really like it. I am hoping to get the Topaz to feel similar.


Hey voob,

How much sag are you running? I'm about 5 lbs heavier than you and have to go down to 160psi to get 30% sag. I have the same bike and it seems like an awfully low pressure compared to what others are running. Bladder is at 190psi.

What tires are you running? I'm looking for higher volume tires than the Purgatory 2.3 and Butcher 2.35 than I am running now.


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## voob (Jan 14, 2011)

Damon said:


> Hey voob,
> 
> How much sag are you running? I'm about 5 lbs heavier than you and have to go down to 160psi to get 30% sag. I have the same bike and it seems like an awfully low pressure compared to what others are running. Bladder is at 190psi.
> 
> What tires are you running? I'm looking for higher volume tires than the Purgatory 2.3 and Butcher 2.35 than I am running now.


My sag is about the 13-15mm (middle of the DVO marking) but I go more by feel then exact measurement. How many volume spacers are you using?

I am using similar setting to CC!!! 




Tire volume is dependant on rim width. I am using 29mm ID rims and have used 2.4 Contis and 2.35 NNs which end up being about the same volume. Spec tires are usually large volume. The rear will be too tight with anything bigger. Up front you can use the new 2.5 to 2.6 tires.


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

Man! I am 210lbs and have like 240psi in shock with 2 spacers in positive, 2 in negative and still hitting closer to 40% sag. I guess i just have to keep adding pressure, but seems odd. I only ran about 220 max in my FoxRP23


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Make sure you bump the resi pressure up to 200lbs as well


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

I think I had it at 185, ill check that. That raises the curve of the shock all together right?


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## Damon (Aug 1, 2006)

voob said:


> My sag is about the 13-15mm (middle of the DVO marking) but I go more by feel then exact measurement. How many volume spacers are you using?
> 
> I am using similar setting to CC!!!
> 
> ...


No volume spacers yet. Today was the maiden voyage.

After bouncing around in the driveway a little bit, the sag dropped and I had to bump the pressure to 170 psi to get back to 30%. Went out and did about 15 miles of tuning loops, adjusting the bladder pressure and rebound only. Rebound was best at 2-3 clicks in. Bladder was soft and the rear wallowed in hard turns at 170 to 185psi. 190 to 200 took care of the wallow. I used all of the travel on the drops, but never bottomed harshly. Once I got home and checked sag again, I had to add more air to 180 psi to get back to 30% sag again. Guess it loosens up as it seats in.

Are your 29mm wide rims Nox? My current rims are only 21 mm inside width and I want to go to 27mm (Nobl) or 29mm (Nox) rims with about a 2.4 tire. (60 to 61mm).


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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

Damon said:


> No volume spacers yet. Today was the maiden voyage.
> 
> After bouncing around in the driveway a little bit, the sag dropped and I had to bump the pressure to 170 psi to get back to 30%. Went out and did about 15 miles of tuning loops, adjusting the bladder pressure and rebound only. Rebound was best at 2-3 clicks in. Bladder was soft and the rear wallowed in hard turns at 170 to 185psi. 190 to 200 took care of the wallow. I used all of the travel on the drops, but never bottomed harshly. Once I got home and checked sag again, I had to add more air to 180 psi to get back to 30% sag again. Guess it loosens up as it seats in.
> 
> Are your 29mm wide rims Nox? My current rims are only 21 mm inside width and I want to go to 27mm (Nobl) or 29mm (Nox) rims with about a 2.4 tire. (60 to 61mm).


When you air up the shock you need to cycle it several times every 50 psi to charge the negative chamber. Thats why your sag changed and you had to add more air, as you were riding the negative air chamber was stealing air from the positive to equalize.


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## Damon (Aug 1, 2006)

Sesostris said:


> When you air up the shock you need to cycle it several times every 50 psi to charge the negative chamber. Thats why your sag changed and you had to add more air, as you were riding the negative air chamber was stealing air from the positive to equalize.


I aired the shock three times using this process and never saw the pressure drop as I was expecting. Emailed DVO to ask where the transfer port was located. Though maybe it was plugged like the Pike forks can do.

Would make sense that it pushed grease though while riding and opened the transfer port, transferring the air and dropping the pressure.


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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

Damon said:


> I aired the shock three times using this process and never saw the pressure drop as I was expecting. Emailed DVO to ask where the transfer port was located. Though maybe it was plugged like the Pike forks can do.
> 
> Would make sense that it pushed grease though while riding and opened the transfer port, transferring the air and dropping the pressure.


Yes thats a good point. The transfer port can be clogged with grease the negative and positive chamber ports can be blocked by the bands as well. I would open the air can and make sure the negative and positive bands are not covering the holes.

For reference, Im 200 lbs geared up and run 200 psi with 1 band in the positive chamber with 30% sag on my SB95 and couldnt be happier with this shock. It blows away the fox factory ctd and manitou mcleod I ran previously. Once you get it setup and working properly Im sure you'll be happy with it.


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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

Just noticed that you stated you are not running volume spacers yet so disregard that advice but definitely make sure that the transfer port between the two chambers is clear. You are on the right track and best of luck.


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## AmadoMTB (Feb 27, 2017)

Hello forum. I ride a Large 2016 Stumpjumper FSR Carbon 650b. I just had my first ride on the Topaz. I rode the Ken Burton single track and the El Prieto trail in Los Angeles. It is a mix of everything from fast and flowy, rock gardens, 1-3 foot drops, and plenty of ruts. I am 238 lbs geared up. I had 235 in the air can and 195 in the reservoir with one volume spacer in the negative chamber. Sag was at 30%. I also had about 6 clicks of rebound from the slowest point. What I noticed with 195 in the reservoir is that the bike climbed amazingly with minimal bob even in the middle compression setting. I have never been able to do standing pedaling while climbing and this is the first time I have been able to do so on my bike. That is amazing in and of itself! 

When I hit the first flowy downhill, I opened up the shock and it felt extremely harsh. So at a break, I let out about 5 psi dropping the reservoir to 190 psi. From there, the Topaz felt amazing. I was able to pump the bike the way I wanted to. It launched of rollers so easily and glided through smaller rocks without me feeling any of it. It was so amazingly confidence inspiring that I decided to hit bigger drops that I normally don't hit. On those drops, the Topaz was composed, plush, and stable. It really made me push the bike and let go of the brake levers on the fastest section. Where I normally top off at 24 mph on the fastest section, I actually hit 30 mph and didn't even feel like I was riding that much faster. 

On the El Prieto trail, which is slower with lots of drops and switchbacks, I still had the shock open and took 1-3 foot drops with lots of confidence. Rolling over rock drops was so smooth and stable. It allowed me to keep up more with one of the fastest riders I ride with. 

The Topaz is a game changer. It has completely transformed my bike. I run a dual position 160mm Pike up front and it made the fork feel more planted as well. My only complaint after the initial ride is that since it is such a burly shock, it is really stiff and not as playful as I am used to. I will have to see how it feels with less air in the reservoir to see how much bouncier it can get by reducing the spring rate.

I have only ridden a 2017 X2 on an SB6 for 2 miles. I have felt how much more planted and stiff a piggyback shock feels. So needless to say this shock has totally transformed my bike to the point where I now feel that I have a dream bike like my buddy's SB6 since it has been mated to my pike and my DT Swiss EX511 rims. It is amazing. Going to do more shuttling soon!


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## q232 (Mar 8, 2011)

I have a deal on 7.875x2.00 shock. Is it possible to get 2.25 shock travel from it?


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## Guest (Mar 7, 2017)

Mine is 'out for delivery' today..:thumbsup:


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## ttchad (Jun 28, 2007)

q232 said:


> I have a deal on 7.875x2.00 shock. Is it possible to get 2.25 shock travel from it?


So please tell?


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2017)

*yippeee!!*

topaz in hand but will source a green or orange O-ring to measure sag from....any ideas??


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## Guest (Mar 8, 2017)

Kevlar3D said:


> Yeah, I agree. I am surprised that they left out something so essential to shock tuning. Not like I am going to be looking down at my shock while I am effortlessly gliding through a rock garden.


Just received mine yesterday and per my above pic DVO has yet to add this essential item.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

When I got mine a few months ago, DVO said the shocks were shipped from the factory without the o-ring. They offered to send me one when they became available (They said they were on the way). I never followed up, but I expect you could probably get them to send you one by now.


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

nvphatty said:


> Just received mine yesterday and per my above pic DVO has yet to add this essential item.


You can use a small zip tie lightly snugged on the damper tube to set sag. If you are worried about it maybe scratching the stantion, simply slide it off the end. If I have to go this route I just let the zip tie get pushed off during the ride and leave it off. 
It is pretty weak on them for not including a $.25 cent item with the shock!:skep:


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Mine came with a green o ring when I got mine back in October 


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2017)

Raleighguy29 said:


> Mine came with a green o ring when I got mine back in October.


weird :skep: if you would be so kind as to remove it and mail my way i'd be down right thankful.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Mounted up and ready for tuning this weekend, smaller than it looks in person, hoping it packs a big punch. Using all the tips in this thread, thanks.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

jsalas2 said:


> Mounted up and ready for tuning this weekend, smaller than it looks in person, hoping it packs a big punch. Using all the tips in this thread, thanks.


I've got that paired with the topaz on my riot









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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I've got that paired with the topaz on my riot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Also on a Riot. What are you using for your tune as far as tuning bands and pressure in the bladder. I've got a couple of tunes from other Riot owners. Gonna use these as a base for setting up. So far it seems like I band in the negative and two in the positive is common. I am hoping this is a better shock than the CC Inline and CCAirCS which were great when they were working. I went thru 2 Inlines and 2 Air CS. How are you liking it so far. Thanks.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

jsalas2 said:


> Also on a Riot. What are you using for your tune as far as tuning bands and pressure in the bladder. I've got a couple of tunes from other Riot owners. Gonna use these as a base for setting up. So far it seems like I band in the negative and two in the positive is common. I am hoping this is a better shock than the CC Inline and CCAirCS which were great when they were working. I went thru 2 Inlines and 2 Air CS. How are you liking it so far. Thanks.


I'm running 1 band in the positive side around 210-215 to get 30%sag around 190-195 ish In the oil bladder and about 2-3 clicks back from fastest on the rebound. And I've been very happy with it. Plush poppy and Ramps up so awesome.

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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks for the info.


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## Guest (Mar 9, 2017)

*Shaft O-ring, or the lack thereof..*

After reading 90% of this thread and seeing as how the vast majority did not receive their shock with an O-ring i decided to send DVO an email late last night regarding it.

Late this afternoon i received a reply stating if i sent them my mailing info one would be mailed out ASAP.


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## sdm74 (Jan 27, 2013)

jsalas2 said:


> Mounted up and ready for tuning this weekend, smaller than it looks in person, hoping it packs a big punch. Using all the tips in this thread, thanks.


got a full pic of that purple riot? where did you get the purple stickers and bits?


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## ttchad (Jun 28, 2007)

nvphatty said:


> Late this afternoon i received a reply stating if i sent them my mailing info one would be mailed out ASAP.


 I have been on the fence about a new shock & cannot decide whether to go coil or AIR.

From all of the positive comments I will definitely be going DVO though. Now if I could just find someone who wants a CCDB CS.


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

sdm74 said:


> got a full pic of that purple riot? where did you get the purple stickers and bits?


You can get custom topaz decals from invisiframe or stikrd

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## Robin Grant (Dec 1, 2013)

Nick - where did you get the black (rather than green) shock hardware from? (i.e. the compression lever, rebound dial etc).


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

That stuff comes off pretty easy... guessing it was some workshop techniques? Sharpie? Rattle can?
Of course you could remove them and strip the color with oven cleaner and send them off for Ano treatment if you really wanna do it up...


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2017)

ttchad said:


> I have been on the fence about a new shock & cannot decide whether to go coil or AIR.
> 
> From all of the positive comments I will definitely be going DVO though. Now if I could just find someone who wants a CCDB CS.


I have no ride feedback as of yet but when i do i'll post.


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## Guest (Mar 13, 2017)

max_lombardy said:


> That stuff comes off pretty easy... guessing it was some workshop techniques? Sharpie? Rattle an?


since they are machined alum parts that have been anodized green perhaps going through the process and done in your fav color is an option.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

nvphatty said:


> since they are machined alum parts that have been anodized green perhaps going through the process and done in your fav color is an option.


I did this on my Diamond. Trick









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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

FastBanana said:


> I did this on my Diamond. Trick
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That looks great!


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## Guest (Mar 14, 2017)

jsalas2 said:


> That looks great!


+100 :thumbsup:


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

Robin Grant said:


> Nick - where did you get the black (rather than green) shock hardware from? (i.e. the compression lever, rebound dial etc).


That isn't my shock...not sure where he got that from

I have switched to custom decals though

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## Guest (Mar 17, 2017)

Received the green sag O-ring in the mail, now for the new decals I must wait till next week sometime.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I broke down an ordered a Topaz for my 2015 Bronson. I'm hoping for a somewhat simple setup with much improved results over the stock Fox Float Evolution that only gets it right half the time. It's either good on the trail or good on the jumps, never good on both.

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## Guest (Mar 24, 2017)

IRBent said:


> I broke down an ordered a Topaz for my 2015 Bronson. I'm hoping for a somewhat simple setup with much improved results over the stock Fox Float Evolution that only gets it right half the time. It's either good on the trail or good on the jumps, never good on both.


good for you :thumbsup:
haven't had a chance to ride due to all day rains and then just when ya think there's some hero dirt to be had it dumps again..:madman:


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

nvphatty said:


> good for you
> haven't had a chance to ride due to all day rains and then just when ya think there's some hero dirt to be had it dumps again..:madman:


I sorta feel your pain. We've got two daughters playing ball so even when the weather is nice, I'm at the ballpark. Like right now and it was bright, sunny and nearly 80 degrees this afternoon. The weatherman is predicting rain this weekend. Like the girls, I can't win either.

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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Ok, almost there. I've got it setup, where it feels great, but I'm not getting the last 1/4 travel. I've got one band in the negative and one in the positive, 185 in the bladder and 220 in the can.getting 30% sag What do I do. Thanks.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

jsalas2 said:


> Ok, almost there. I've got it setup, where it feels great, but I'm not getting the last 1/4 travel. I've got one band in the negative and one in the positive, 185 in the bladder and 220 in the can.getting 30% sag What do I do. Thanks.


How much do you weigh? I would imagine if you drop some pressure out of the can sag will increase as well as travel used. So that sounds like the wrong option. Try removing the spacer from the positive chamber first. If that don't work, maybe dropping @ 5psi out of the bladder will help. If sag increases much, add a spacer to the negative chamber.
Disclaimer, I have yet to get to play with one of these and hope my understanding of how they work is correct.

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## Sesostris (Jan 13, 2016)

jsalas2 said:


> Ok, almost there. I've got it setup, where it feels great, but I'm not getting the last 1/4 travel. I've got one band in the negative and one in the positive, 185 in the bladder and 220 in the can.getting 30% sag What do I do. Thanks.


I would take the band out of the positive side, reset your sag and test again.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Thanks, gonna try your suggestions.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

jsalas2 said:


> Thanks, gonna try your suggestions.


Do post the outcome. We all love hearing those "I've got it dialed in" stories.

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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

Got it, will post the results. The shock doesn't look like much to it, but with the tuning bands, the bladder pressure the can pressure there are endless ways to get it, where you want it.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

jsalas2 said:


> Got it, will post the results. The shock doesn't look like much to it, but with the tuning bands, the bladder pressure the can pressure there are endless ways to get it, where you want it.


Jsalas2,

The link below to YouTube discusses the theory behind air shocks with big negative chambers. If you understand some basic principles such as Boyle's gas law, volume times pressure, then this video will help you better understand what might help tune your shock to best suit your needs. In a sense this guy states that an air shock with a beg negative chamber could potentially have benefits that not even a coil spring can provide, and we're not talking shear weight either.


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## Guest (Mar 25, 2017)

*superficial update*

A little before & after.......


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Who made your graphics?

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## Guest (Mar 25, 2017)

IRBent said:


> Who made your graphics?


https://www.stikrd.com/


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

nvphatty said:


> https://www.stikrd.com/


It looks like they offer just about anything you could want color wise. When looking at the graphics on their site it appeared you could select a single color only. But how do you know which colors are being changed?

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## Guest (Mar 26, 2017)

IRBent said:


> It looks like they offer just about anything you could want color wise. When looking at the graphics on their site it appeared you could select a single color only. But how do you know which colors are being changed?


i too had issues at first but then figured out once you have selected/clicked a color you then go over to the decal and click the portion you desire in that color...sort of a click-click-drop type affair is my best explanation.


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Just exchanged my jade against a topaz with somebody in my 2016 patrol. got some rides now. The jade already worked great, Mo complaints.but I hate struggling with coils to get the ride one for the day of riding that lies ahead and how much and heavy stuff you carry with you.that is why I leave coil shocks for good as long as there is something working similarly well with a good warranty service backed up and easy to work in yourself. More than that the techguy from dvo told me it will make no disadvatange in the patrol, topaz vs jade.so I pulled the trigger. 92 kilos kitted, 190 reservoir, Main around 140, 1 neg, 2 pos spacers: it only looses against jade when lifting the rear and let it drop.coil directly stays on the floor where I still get a little bounce from the topaz.but when you push on the saddle or hopp on the bike I already feel a clear difference lets say to a Monarch plus or Marzocchi 053.First part of the travel to sag is very soft and then (I think it is the part of the travel where both chambers equalize ) you hear a small hizz and feel a Great change in Support,veeeery similar to the coil.until now it just disappears while riding with 3 mm reserve shown by the travel indicator most of the time.it carries me much better than the 053.when sliding down a steep hill and hitting a berm to a 90 degree turn where your bike is almost stopped or you can be thrown off when Not being dynamic enough, the other shock most often blew trough the travel (hitting the Pedals on the ground) which the topaz does not. dampingwise no problems until now with feet being shaken of the pedals or hurting legs. Seems to have been the right choice. Cannot understand how some people say it is the same or only minor improvement over a monarch plus. It is damn great! Setup correctly it is very supportive without spiking,being harsh or kicking you of when launching a steep jump. 
Great,thx dvo.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

nvphatty said:


> i too had issues at first but then figured out once you have selected/clicked a color you then go over to the decal and click the portion you desire in that color...sort of a click-click-drop type affair is my best explanation.


Wow, thanks for the tutorial. Sounds easier than putting together a .svg file to send them.

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## Guest (Mar 26, 2017)

*DVO mounted*

Still can't ride so this is my therapy until such time.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

*DVO Topaz Tune 2105 Santa Cruz Bronson*

I've had my Topaz a few days and have toyed with a few tunes looking for one that would work well for my trails. Here's what I've settled on at the moment.
Rider weight with gear - 178lbs
Bladder pressure - 170psi
Air can pressure - 190psi
Volume reducers - 1 in the positive chamber and 1 in the negative.
25% sag
Rebound unknown. I can't feel or hear anything when turning the knob. I even tried playing with the knob bare fingered and inside the house. No luck.

Handles successive high speed roots and rock gardens very well. Slow speed roots or rocks are pretty plush too but required a bit more rebound dampening to tame. I've yet to take any jumps or drops over 2 feet high so I can't elaborate yet. But based on my experience and the amount of travel left on the shock per the o-ring, it should be able to handle the bigger jumps my trail system offers. I'm pretty happy with the outcome of this shock and the current tune. I thought my Pike fork rode plush but now I'm trying to figure out why all of a sudden it feels harsh. I'm afraid the Topaz may have spoiled me already.


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## crclark27 (Aug 8, 2011)

Just purchased a 200x51 Topaz for my Hightower. Only have had 1 ride on it, so I'm still tuning it but wanted to pass along my praise for DVO. Great product, easy to work on and fantastic customer support. I've exchanged a few emails with them on their support alias and have received emails back from the owner in under two hours on three separate occasions. I ultimately chose them after sending a question to Cane Creek on Feb 28th and not ever receiving a response. Also compared the Topaz to the Monarch plus and Float X and X2 (all great shocks in their own right), but was just really impressed by DVO as a company. If you're on the fence on a new shock, I would seriously consider DVO.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crclark27 said:


> Just purchased a 200x51 Topaz for my Hightower. Only have had 1 ride on it, so I'm still tuning it but wanted to pass along my praise for DVO. Great product, easy to work on and fantastic customer support. I've exchanged a few emails with them on their support alias and have received emails back from the owner in under two hours on three separate occasions. I ultimately chose them after sending a question to Cane Creek on Feb 28th and not ever receiving a response. Also compared the Topaz to the Monarch plus and Float X and X2 (all great shocks in their own right), but was just really impressed by DVO as a company. If you're on the fence on a new shock, I would seriously consider DVO.


I've just begun testing my Topaz on a 2015 Bronson and i'm truly in love already. Being able to pull over on the side of the trail and add/remove volume reducers without removing the shock is awesome. Not that I've actually done that but I could easily if I felt that I needed to. Other shocks have to be removed from the bike in order to do this. Also having the ability to adjust the bladder pressure sure beats sending your shock off to have the IFP tweaked by a shop.

I'd love to hear more once you had time to better test and tune the shock for your Hightower.


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## mjkjr (Dec 4, 2016)

*Mine came with an O ring!*

Got my T3 in the mail yesterday and first thing I noticed after reading this thread was that the green O ring was included. 

Unfortunately the poly bushings that came with the Topaz stick out a mm or two whereas the stock RockShox bushings are flush with the shock. Machining my old spacers down with a dremel would probably work but then wouldn't fit if I wanted to put the RT3 back on with original hardware.

I ordered 2 sets of 8mm X 21.84mm Fox 5 piece mounting kits. 2 sets of Fox bushing reducers would probably also work for a few dollars less. Tried using the bushings from the RT3 in the Topaz temporarily but the old RockShox bushings won't budge and the tool is $20.

It's going to be another week before I can try out the Topaz. Put the RT3 back on for now. Gotta hand it to DVO for nice packaging, at least.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

mjkjr said:


> Got my T3 in the mail yesterday and first thing I noticed after reading this thread was that the green O ring was included. I ordered 2 sets of 8mm X 21.84mm Fox 5 piece mounting kits. It's going to be another week before I can try out the Topaz. Put the RT3 back on for now. Gotta hand it to DVO for nice packaging, at least.


I hate that your old hardware won't allow you to ride your new shock. I was lucky enough that my old Fox hardware fit the Topaz just fine so I didn't have to wait. Oh the pain and anticipation. Update us with your impression once you are up and rolling.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

mjkjr said:


> Tried using the bushings from the RT3 in the Topaz temporarily but the old RockShox bushings won't budge and the tool is $20.


Some success can be had with the right size ratchet bit sets (expendable cheap ones) and some ill-advised arrangements - but to be honest, running the Fox DU bushing kits (which can be quite cheap) seemed to work just fine for my uses.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Can you tune Dvo using shockwiz?


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

crclark27 said:


> Just purchased a 200x51 Topaz for my Hightower. Only have had 1 ride on it, so I'm still tuning it but wanted to pass along my praise for DVO. Great product, easy to work on and fantastic customer support. I've exchanged a few emails with them on their support alias and have received emails back from the owner in under two hours on three separate occasions. I ultimately chose them after sending a question to Cane Creek on Feb 28th and not ever receiving a response. Also compared the Topaz to the Monarch plus and Float X and X2 (all great shocks in their own right), but was just really impressed by DVO as a company. If you're on the fence on a new shock, I would seriously consider DVO.


Im ready to pull the trigger on one for my Hightower, did you need any other mounting hardware?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

sml-2727 said:


> Im ready to pull the trigger on one for my Hightower, did you need any other mounting hardware?


My Fox hardware fit the DVO just as DVO said it would. So if your stock shock is a Fox, no need for new hardware unless the old stuff is worn.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Whats up guys i have been reading most of your comments on the Topaz and im glad you are all happy with the performance and Customer service from us and if you have any questions about our products you can send me an Email: [email protected]


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Finalgear said:


> Whats up guys i have been reading most of your comments on the Topaz and im glad you are all happy with the performance and Customer service from us and if you have any questions about our products you can send me an Email: [email protected]


Do you work in SoCal with Ronnie?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

I take care of the stuff on the East Coast, im not in the main office


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Right on, thanks for the reply. :thumbsup:


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I just got home from my second test ride on my latest Topaz tune. While my previous rides proved the Topaz could eat up root and rock gardens as well as make big talk out of small successive trail chatter, I had yet to launch it off the ground. This afternoon I opted to do just that, take on our local flow trail. While the shock still ate up every rock and root on the way to the flow trail, it still proved to be heads above my stock Fox Float Evolution that came on my 2015 Bronson. I never bottom out once on the jumps, something the Fox did on at least 2 of the landings. To my surprise it didn't feel quite as plush as I expected though, ramping up really quick without bottoming out. Once I made it to the bottom I stopped to see how much travel is used. Wow, I had another ¾” to go and yet it still felt better than my Fox. Wait? Oh hell, I rode those jumps with the compression lever in the locked out position. I can't wait to hit it again with the lever wide open so I can truly see what this amazing shock can do. Not to mention, this is only second shot at tuning it. It might even get better. I'm not sure I can handle that. I was big smiles even though I rode over half my ride locked out.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2017)

^^ nicely done sir.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)




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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I'm amazed how topaz make my stumpy feel like a different bike. I really like the small bump sensitivity and mid stroke. 

Where can I purchase the complete rebuilt kit for dvo topaz?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

You need a rebuild already?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rave81 said:


> I'm amazed how topaz make my stumpy feel like a different bike. I really like the small bump sensitivity and mid stroke.


Which shock did you have on your bike prior to the Topaz?


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Finalgear said:


> You need a rebuild already?


I just want to purchase it so that once it due for service I could do it myself.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

IRBent said:


> Which shock did you have on your bike prior to the Topaz?


Mine comes with auto sag fox float ctd factory series.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rave81 said:


> Mine comes with auto sag fox float ctd factory series.


I think that's the case with my buddy's Stumpy. He's actually the one who first convinced me to look deeper into the Topaz and I'm glad I did. but I'd hate to hype it up for him as I can't promise that it would work the same on his bike as it does my Bronson. So please tell me more about you and your setup. Bike year model, your weight with gear, Topaz tune set up with pressures and such and what the shock feels like in comparison to the Float. As for me, my Fox Float Evolution never found a happy middle ground. It was either too soft for the bigger jumps or too stiff and harsh for the rocky rooted sections. The Topaz offers me a soft plush ride over everything now and still handle the bigger jumps without bottoming out.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Bought the topaz and diamond for my new foes trail mixer build. Anyone currently using this combo on the mixer...?
If so can you share your set up and experience with this combo on the mixer....
Thanks.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

Can any Topaz owners comment on how easy it is to tune the shock to your liking? I'm looking for a replacement for my CC DBAir and am considering the Topaz. The only significant change to the DBAir base tune is backing off the HSR damping to make the rear more poppy. Before backing off the HSR, the rear felt pretty dead and my concern is that I won't be able to get the Topaz to feel the same amount of poppy as the DBAir. Any insights would be appreciated.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

With the ability to add volume tuning bands to both negative and positive chambers, as well as adjust the main air chamber pressure and the oil reservoir piggy back pressure, then adjust rebound to your liking, I think it's pretty easy to tweak. You can even change out the oil in the damper to a lighter weight to get a different tune. What's really awesome is DVO will talk to you in the phone or email to discuss how to got about getting what you want out of the shock. Not to mention they're behind you doing so as well as full service work at home. Maybe someone here lives near by and you can test ride their Topaz. I'm in the "heart of Dixie" if your down this way.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Its super easy to get setup, you can go on our website and get a base tune.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I am curious about this shock. 
how did you choose the correct size for the bike?
Mine bike is Pivot Mach 5.7


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

7.875 x 2.25 for your pivot


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Tips to stop using up all the travel on relatively small 3ft or so drops? 
Got it packed with spacers and the psi getting to the point that sag is minimal. 
Cheers
Joel

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## MasterBaker (Oct 25, 2014)

Anyone have firsthand experience riding a Tallboy LT with a Topaz?


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

IRBent said:


> With the ability to add volume tuning bands to both negative and positive chambers, as well as adjust the main air chamber pressure and the oil reservoir piggy back pressure, then adjust rebound to your liking, I think it's pretty easy to tweak. You can even change out the oil in the damper to a lighter weight to get a different tune. What's really awesome is DVO will talk to you in the phone or email to discuss how to got about getting what you want out of the shock. Not to mention they're behind you doing so as well as full service work at home. Maybe someone here lives near by and you can test ride their Topaz. I'm in the "heart of Dixie" if your down this way.
> 
> 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
> Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


Thanks for the offer, very generous, but I live up in the Northwest. After talking to someone at DVO yesterday I decided to pull the trigger on one.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

matsf said:


> Thanks for the offer, very generous, but I live up in the Northwest. *After talking to someone at DVO* yesterday I decided to pull the trigger on one.


I'm telling you, these guys are the real deal. Best C.S. out there! Welcome to the club!


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## czervonka (Dec 13, 2012)

anybody knows if hardware from rockshox will work on topaz too ? i'm on sc hightower 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

czervonka said:


> anybody knows if hardware from rockshox will work on topaz too ? i'm on sc hightower
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If nobody answers you here, know that a call or email to DVO will get answers. My Fox hardware worked but can't answer about Rockshox.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

If I recall correctly I pulled the hardware from a Monarch to fit my Topaz.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

czervonka said:


> anybody knows if hardware from rockshox will work on topaz too ? i'm on sc hightower
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes it will work but you need to use the DU bushes from the RS as well.


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Tips to stop using up all the travel on relatively small 3ft or so drops?
> Got it packed with spacers and the psi getting to the point that sag is minimal.
> Cheers
> Joel
> ...


This is the same problem with Float X and Monarch Plus. No easy way to adjust HSC without revalving, hence the X2...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## czervonka (Dec 13, 2012)

Rick Draper said:


> Yes it will work but you need to use the DU bushes from the RS as well.


great! thanks a lot for info

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RialbSelur (Jan 26, 2013)

I have a hightower, as well, and keeping the original bushings on the Topaz, you'll need (2) of the 8x22mm hardware kits.


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## RialbSelur (Jan 26, 2013)

*Full Travel?*

Hopefully, not too stupid a question: Is this full travel, or should it be going right up to almost shoving the o-ring off the stanchion?
View attachment 1135800


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

RialbSelur said:


> Hopefully, not too stupid a question: Is this full travel, or should it be going right up to almost shoving the o-ring off the stanchion?
> View attachment 1135800


The easy answer is, let all the air out and push the suspension down. It should show you full travel then. But keep you eyes out for other impedances such as the tire hitting the frame. I'm pretty sure that O-ring should be at the very end of the shaft, not that far up.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

RialbSelur said:


> Hopefully, not too stupid a question: Is this full travel, or should it be going right up to almost shoving the o-ring off the stanchion?
> View attachment 1135800











Mine on the back of my riot. After a recent ride. But I've got clearance to push it off all the way. By the way when I've pushed this far it never feels like it. Just bottomless

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Raleighguy29 said:


> Mine on the back of my riot. After a recent ride. But I've got clearance to push it off all the way. By the way when I've pushed this far it never feels like it. Just bottomless
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


After a recent ride? I hope by recent you meant, "I just got home". I can't put my baby up that nasty. LOL

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

IRBent said:


> After a recent ride? I hope by recent you meant, "I just got home". I can't put my baby up that nasty. LOL
> 
> 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
> Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


Oh she likes going to bed dirty 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SirSlow (Mar 31, 2014)

On a Hightower are you mounting with the can up or down?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

If you mount it with the small oil bladder up the compression lever ends up on the left hand side and if you flip the lever up, the compression is closed so up means up. When you're ready to go downhill, flip the lever down. It's just easier to remember.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## RialbSelur (Jan 26, 2013)

The small bladder is up on Hightower


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Is it normal to loose air in the piggy back after each ride, because I pumped it to 190psi after riding it went down to 90psi


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

rave81 said:


> Is it normal to loose air in the piggy back after each ride, because I pumped it to 190psi after riding it went down to 90psi


That's not normal. I've got about 100 hours riding on my Topaz and it will lose ~ 10 psi a week max from the bladder with a lot of riding. It's a really tiny air reservoir, so i have to pre charge the shock pump to get an accurate reading . See this video for an explanation https://www.pinkbike.com/video/436421/
Also check the shraeder valve core is not loose. Mine was and needed a little tighten.
Hope this helps.


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## SirSlow (Mar 31, 2014)

Got my Topaz and I'm already confused. The owners manual covers adding air and setting sag for the main chamber but i cannot find a section relating to the bladder pressure. rave 81 ^^^ mentions it and the shock itself has a sticker saying 170 - 200 psi but it is not covered in the book nor does it have an air chart. What does it do and when in the set up do you add the, rather imprecise , 170 to 200 psi?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

SirSlow said:


> Got my Topaz and I'm already confused. The owners manual covers adding air and setting sag for the main chamber but i cannot find a section relating to the bladder pressure. rave 81 ^^^ mentions it and the shock itself has a sticker saying 170 - 200 psi but it is not covered in the book nor does it have an air chart. What does it do and when in the set up do you add the, rather imprecise , 170 to 200 psi?


Thanks for your question.

UNDERSTANDING THE BLADDER

The next step in the setup of your Topaz Air shock is understanding the bladder. We have implicated the use of a bladder in all of our rear shocks for increased performance in many aspects. Bladders have been widely used in motocross shocks for years but haven't been seen too often in mtb shocks. Why is that? Bladders can be costly on the production side and take skilled technicians to properly bleed and install. On mass-produced suspension products that isn't something they're willing to invest in. At DVO we take pride in making high performance products and cutting corners in production at the cost of performance isn't what we're about.

WHY USE A BLADDER?

Bladders are located in the reservoir of the rear shock and take the place of a traditional IFP or internal floating piston. They both have the same purpose but completely different ways of executing it. That purpose is to seperate the air from the oil. A bladder is basically a ballon which is filled with air and seated to the end cap. The bladder is filled with a high PSI to push back against the oil which creates pressure in the system. As the shock is compressed, oil flows through the the system and starts to compress the bladder.

When the shock goes to extend again, the bladder pushes the oil back in the opposite direction. This decreases the chances of what's called cavitation. Cavitation is when there is a gap in the oil caused from air bubbles and creates a temporary loss of damping. Here's an example of cavitation. Picture turning on a hose, what happens as the water is pushing the air out of the line? Water intermittently shoots out in between gaps of air. This same situation happens in suspension causing a loss of damping.

The real benefit of using a bladder over an IFP is when the shock is working dynamically or in "riding situations". As the shock is compressing and rebounding at a high velocity, it can sometimes have a difficult time changing directions. An IFP usually has a moment of hesitation in that situation due to stiction between the outer O-ring and the inside surface of the reservoir. With a bladder that can't happen and you get unmatched small bump sensitivity with a seamless transition from compression to rebound.

CAN I ADJUST THE PRESSURE OF THE BLADDER ON MY SHOCK?

Absolutely. Changing the bladder pressure is easy and something you should check consistently. Just unscrew the air cap at the end of the reservoir and use a shock pump to adjust or check the pressure. When checking the pressure, the initial reading from the pump will be low. This is because air needs to fill the hose of the pump before the PSI can be determined.

HOW WILL THE PRESSURE AFFECT THE PERFORMANCE?

The pressure within the bladder will have a drastic affect on performance. As we talked about before, the higher the pressure the less chance you have of cavitation. The pressure range of the bladder is 170-200PSI. The bladder pressure also has an effect on the entire stroke of the shock. The higher the bladder pressure the firmer the shock will be. The lower the pressure, the softer. Lighter riders can run a lower bladder pressure and heavier riders should ride a higher pressure.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Do you guys buy topaz from lbs? Or do you order it online website? 

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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

rave81 said:


> Is it normal to loose air in the piggy back after each ride, because I pumped it to 190psi after riding it went down to 90psi


Try completely disassembling the shock and re-greasing all the seals with Slick Honey.


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## MasterBaker (Oct 25, 2014)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Tips to stop using up all the travel on relatively small 3ft or so drops?
> Got it packed with spacers and the psi getting to the point that sag is minimal.
> Cheers
> Joel
> ...


Hey Joel,

I don't have any practical experience with a Topaz yet, but reading up on how they work I'd suggest trying a higher bladder pressure.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Is there a consensus on tuning band configurations for Santa Cruz VPP and other VPP bikes? I'm on a Bronson and currently have a tuning band in both the positive and the negative chamber. The rear feels wonderful 90% of the time but occasionally gets hung up on high speed chatter. Rebound is on the verge of bouncing me off the pedals so I don't think I can speed it up much more.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Here is a nice little video put together explaining volume spacers.





And in your case where its a vpp bike i would start with one volume spacer in the positive side first then add a second if needed


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

Can anyone describe the effects of adding volume spacers on the negative side? I couldn't find any information in any of DVO's videos or product documentation other than how to add them.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

By adding spacers in the negative chamber it will allow you to run lower air pressure in the main body, this is useful for heaver riders that are outside the recommended psi range
In doing so it wouldn’t be overwhelming the positive spring as much, therefore you would see an increase in support in the beginning stroke.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> Here is a nice little video put together explaining volume spacers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I appreciate the link however I've watched that same video and every other video I can find by DVO, Vorsprung, and some other guy maybe from Brazil who's now teamed up with one of the big bike sites. I've even talked for 15-20 minutes with Bryson at DVO myself in attempt to get an idea how they run their Santa Cruz setups. Bottom line, my Topaz is head and shoulders above my stock shock and while it does me right 90+% of the time, occasionally on high speed successive chatter the rear wheel feels as if somebody is yanking it backwards. I assume this is what's referred to packing up where the rear isn't rebounding quick enough and after a few hits the rear wheel doesn't move up quick enough and hammers the next root or rock hard enough to slow momentum some. Several times on fast downhills this as nearly sent me over the bars, or at least gave me the feeling that it almost happened. I'm of the mind right now that if I added one more tuning band to the positive side and reduced the air can pressure a bit, that it would make it easier for the wheel to move up since there will be less resistance. At the same time the lower pressure might allow me to open the rebound some more which might allow the tire to get back down for the next hit. but this is where my mind is in conflict. A second thought is, higher pressure would force the rear wheel back down quicker, but only if it could get up and out of the way to begin with. I already have 1 volume spacer in the positive side, but also one in the negative. I put one in the negative and to the best of my memory that allowed me to run a lower pressure without blowing though my desired sag of 25%. When testing it at 30% I had one pedal strike after the other.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Is your rebound maxed out?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Also email me your weight with gear and the type of bike you have let see what i can put together for you.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> Also email me your weight with gear and the type of bike you have let see what i can put together for you.


Sir, I sent you a private message here with a full run down on everything you asked and then some. I appreciate the offer and just realized you're a DVO employee. I probably knew that a few weeks ago but being old like Bryson, over worked and constantly under high stress, my mental isn't too sharp anymore. LOL

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Awesome i will look at it and get back to you.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Can anyone in the 160-170 lb department offer their settings? Have a few rides on my Topaz mounted to a 5010 v2, running one positive band and 195/175 in main/bladder. Feels a little stiff and think I am going to drop down to 190 and closer to 30% sag, as well as 170 in the bladder. Good mid stroke and bottom out resistance, which is what I wanted, but a little harsh off the top so far.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> Can anyone in the 160-170 lb department offer their settings? Have a few rides on my Topaz mounted to a 5010 v2, running one positive band and 195/175 in main/bladder. Feels a little stiff and think I am going to drop down to 190 and closer to 30% sag, as well as 170 in the bladder. Good mid stroke and bottom out resistance, which is what I wanted, but a little harsh off the top so far.


I bobble between 163-166 and right now I'm riding the bladder at 170 and the main can at 190. but I have a tuning band on both the positive and negative side. If memory serves me correctly, when I added a band to the negative side it allowed me to maintain the same can pressure but reduced the sag from 30% to 25%. At 30% I was having too may pedal strikes. Everything is plush with those settings but my rebound may not be exactly spot on yet. Or I may need another minor tweak as sometimes I have minor issues with high speed big chatter.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Kaparzo said:


> Can anyone in the 160-170 lb department offer their settings? Have a few rides on my Topaz mounted to a 5010 v2, running one positive band and 195/175 in main/bladder. Feels a little stiff and think I am going to drop down to 190 and closer to 30% sag, as well as 170 in the bladder. Good mid stroke and bottom out resistance, which is what I wanted, but a little harsh off the top so far.


Drop down to 190psi should help, little trick is you want a little bit of the bottom of the DVO logo showing when you are sitting on the bike that will put you at the perfect sag level, kind of like a built in sag meter


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Finalgear said:


> Drop down to 190psi should help, little trick is you want a little bit of the bottom of the DVO logo showing when you are sitting on the bike that will put you at the perfect sag level, kind of like a built in sag meter


Awesome, thank you! I've read most people are running rebound on the high end, 2-3 clicks in, which I assume is from full-fast/open/no dampening. Does that sound right?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

It all depends i tell people to make sure the rebound matches your fork, too fast and it can buck you off the bike and too slow and it will pack on you, ride around and find that good balance.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> It all depends i tell people to make sure the rebound matches your fork, too fast and it can buck you off the bike and too slow and it will pack on you, ride around and find that good balance.


I'm thinking my rebound may have been a bit too slow as I think the feeling I've been experiencing is what we call packing up. It feels like the rear wheel is getting hung up or yanked backwards.

Thanks so much Finalgear for the private message with a tuning option to try.


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## Guest (May 12, 2017)

Just an FYI as summer nears and temps rise along with the shock itself getting warm a click +/- may be necessary.


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## SirSlow (Mar 31, 2014)

First ride on my Topaz yesterday.Me: 205 lbs. Bike SC Hightower. I put one band in positive, 220 psi in main and 180 in bladder. Sag was about 18 mm or a little more than recommended. Shock felt ok. Never bottomed out and did not use all my travel. Bike kind of felt like I was lower to the ground. I'm looking for supple and control. I don't jump or do big drop offs. I guess I'll keep playing with it but could use a closer to want I want base tune. Any ideas? Thanks for the help I've received so far!


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Put 200 psi in the bladder and one band in the negative and put 200psi in the main body then try that. i made an edit because i thought you were 18mm past the sag for your weight not 18mm before the sag


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

RialbSelur said:


> Hopefully, not too stupid a question: Is this full travel, or should it be going right up to almost shoving the o-ring off the stanchion?


If you have fitted the standard size 200x50mm shock to your Hightower then yes, that is full travel for the shock.

The 200x50 and 200x57 use the same body, but the 200x50 doesn't compress as far, so the O-ring won't get pushed to the end of the shock.


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## SirSlow (Mar 31, 2014)

Let me clarify. Sitting on the bike the sag was around 18 mm. That is 3mm past the recommended. And you are saying leave the the band in the positive and add one to the neg. 200 psi in both chambers? I'm anxious to give it a try!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

SirSlow said:


> Let me clarify. Sitting on the bike the sag was around 18 mm. That is 3mm past the recommended. And you are saying leave the the band in the positive and add one to the neg. 200 psi in both chambers? I'm anxious to give it a try!


If memory serves me correctly, when I placed a band on the negative side I was able to keep the same air can pressure and reduce sag. But per Finalgear's recommendation I removed the negative band this morning and bumped the air can pressure up 10psi and kept the same sag.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Ok now i get it you are going a little deeper into the travel so do 210 in the main and 200 in the blader leave the volume spacer in the positive and dont put one in the negative and let me know how it is.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> Ok now i get it you are going a little deeper into the travel so do 210 in the main and 200 in the blader leave the volume spacer in the positive and dont put one in the negative and let me know how it is.


Bumping both pressures up a tad and removing the negative band is what made mine feel so great today. I went up 5psi in the bladder and 10psi in the main air can. My rebound started out wide open but after a bit of riding was closed down 3-4 clicks. I'm not sure it's perfect yet but its dang good for what I ride.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Can the topaz help my pivot Mach 5.7 smooth out small bumps? 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Picard said:


> Can the topaz help my pivot Mach 5.7 smooth out small bumps?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


It indeed fixed that issue on my Santa Cruz Bronson. Prior to the Topaz I had issues with small bump/high speed successive hits or bigger jumps. I could have compliance on one or the other but not both. The Topaz offers me a plush ride over everything now without bottoming out.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

It will help you smooth out all the bumps you have.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> It will help you smooth out all the bumps you have.


I've got a major bump the Topaz hasn't helped yet. Only time will fix it. Mortgages suck. LOL

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

How is the topaz different from Fox x2 shock? They looked the same. 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

You will have to ride it to understand.


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## westsid3r (Nov 6, 2012)

Picard said:


> How is the topaz different from Fox x2 shock? They looked the same.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


Curious as well how it compares to an X2. It seems like the DVO is closer to the X2 than the Float X from my reading. At this point, I wonder how much discernable difference really between the two being high performing shocks.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Ok so my thing is this do you seriously think the x2 and the topaz look the same? Because if you do then someone needs glasses lol, this is like saying a porsche and a kia are the same yes they are both cars but the performance is no where near the same, i have had people sell their x2 to buy a topaz because the x2 lacks the small bump compliance and also has a bit of stiction in the start.
Me personally i have neven ridden a x2 so i cant comment on ride quality but i have had one on a dyno, and the topaz dont blow up lol i had too and the #1 reason for you to go to DVO is customer service no other company out there can match that.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

westsid3r said:


> Curious as well how it compares to an X2. It seems like the DVO is closer to the X2 than the Float X from my reading. At this point, I wonder how much discernable difference really between the two being high performing shocks.


Yeah, FG and westsid3r are right. Both shocks are supposed to be amazing, you'll have to go find yourself an unbiased party that's ridden both on the same frame to comment. You probably can't go wrong with either.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

max_lombardy said:


> Yeah, FG and westsid3r are right. Both shocks are supposed to be amazing, you'll have to go find yourself an unbiased party that's ridden both on the same frame to comment. You probably can't go wrong with either.


Although one of the two shocks will set you back @$200 more than the other. Plus you'll more than likely have to pay a LBS @$100/year to maintain the more expensive shock. Whereas the other shock can be maintained at home with some basic tools. Win win.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Cant forget the Super Dope Customer Service lol try doing this with F*X


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Yeah just get the Topaz already. 


Take this all with a grain of salt, you're on a DVO fan forum. But yes, DVO is far and away the best company to deal with. You call them up and a real person answers the phone. Not just any person either, it'll probably be Ronnie, and he will answer all your questions.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Topaz.


What is your current working setup? After much reading (esp. of your posts as I have the same gen Bronson), I pulled the trigger on a Topaz today. I'm 10-15 pounds heavier than you, but I'd be curious as to where you're at as a starting point from which to up the pressure a bit.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

MarcusBrody said:


> What is your current working setup? After much reading (esp. of your posts as I have the same gen Bronson), I pulled the trigger on a Topaz today. I'm 10-15 pounds heavier than you, but I'd be curious as to where you're at as a starting point from which to up the pressure a bit.


I'm running 1 tuning band on the positive side, 175 in the bladder (lighter than the 180 recommended by DVO because I like a softer ride), 200 psi in the main can and rebound 3-4 clicks closed from wide open. My trails are loaded with big jumps so I rarely get more than a few feet off the ground so keep that in mind when setting yours up.

Congrats on the purchase. I hope you're half as pleased as I am. That way you'll love your Topaz for sure.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks a bunch. I'm eager to get it on the bike and start playing with it. 

The trails I ride most lack big jumps and the most common suspension test are 6-12" logs perpendicular to the trail (plus the standard New England roots and rocks), so I might end up with pretty different settings but it's good to have somewhere to start.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

MarcusBrody said:


> Thanks a bunch. I'm eager to get it on the bike and start playing with it.
> 
> The trails I ride most lack big jumps and the most common suspension test are 6-12" logs perpendicular to the trail (plus the standard New England roots and rocks), so I might end up with pretty different settings but it's good to have somewhere to start.


Your trails sound familiar. Rocks and roots galore here and one of the reasons I like supple rides. I'd guess 180-185 in the bladder, 205-210 in the can with a tuning band on the positive and maybe 4-5 clicks of rebound, all to account for that extra weight you have on me. I'd love to know what you think. My first ride was all grins. After a few tunes things have only gotten better. If you're on the Fox Evolution you'll be so glad you opted for this jewel. Pun intended.

2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

I just finished mounting my new Topaz to my Knolly Warden and the setup has me scratching my head already. The owners manual says I should have around 200 psi in the air can (I'm ~170 lbs ready to ride). To get Knolly's recommended sag of 30%, I'm only at 130 psi. I cycled the shock every 50 psi to equalize the positive and negative air springs, though I didn't really see a pressure drop from doing this. I have 180 psi in the bladder and I started with 1 band in the positive side and 1 in the negative side. Bouncing on the shock in my driveway, I can pretty much bottom it out so I added a second band in the positive side (though I can now almost bottom it out). The air pressure in the air can is super low and I'm not sure where to go from here. I did notice that there were some pretty big globs of grease around what looks like the positive/negative transfer port, maybe the grease is partially blocking it. Any suggestions?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Put 3 bands in the positive, 200 in the bladder and 150 in the main body


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> Put 3 bands in the positive, 200 in the bladder and 150 in the main body


Thanks for the suggestion Finalgear. The real test will be when I get out on my first ride, hopefully Thursday. Maybe I am mistaken, but if I increase the bladder pressure, won't I need to decrease the air pressure to maintain the same sag? I'm thinking maybe I should remove the volume reducer in the negative chamber.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Possibly, yes. It may take some tinkering to balance the air can pressure and bladder pressure to get your firmness but you'll get it. It's hard to describe the difference in feel between them but it's definitely there.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

@matsf Yes take the band out the negative side.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Your trails sound familiar. Rocks and roots galore here and one of the reasons I like supple rides. I'd guess 180-185 in the bladder, 205-210 in the can with a tuning band on the positive and maybe 4-5 clicks of rebound, all to account for that extra weight you have on me. I'd love to know what you think. My first ride was all grins. After a few tunes things have only gotten better. If you're on the Fox Evolution you'll be so glad you opted for this jewel. Pun intended.
> 
> 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson
> Only major components that are still stock on my bike is the Reverb dropper and SLX brakes.


Will do. Thanks!


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## Golf_Chick (Aug 22, 2013)

I'm interested to know how this shock will cope with lighter weight riders. I'm 135lbs and thinking of getting one for my mk1 bronson. Little bit concerned by the lack of service centres and coverage/knowledge here in the U.K.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Yeah. I am a light weight rider too. I want to know how it handle riders like me 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

The shock will work for riders 100lbs to 300 lbs


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## SirSlow (Mar 31, 2014)

Pretty happy with my Topaz after my last ride. Thanks to Finalgear for the tips! I have 210 in the main and 200 in the bladder with one band in the positive. I don't quite use all the travel but I guess its good to keep a little in reserve. I have the Vorsprung in the Pike and a ethirteen cassette on the way so I'm excited to get out and ride!


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

You need a diamond up front now.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Finalgear said:


> You need a diamond up front now.


Yes he does. I have the dvo combo on my riot and it's superb

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> You need a diamond up front now.


If DVO would send me a 150mm Diamond sample, 27.5, 12x100, I'd be sure to install it pronto and compare it to the Pike with a Vorsprung Luftkappe installed. When I first put my Topaz on it made my Pike, that was previously regarded by me as dang good, feel a bit harsh up front. So I installed the Luftkappe and now the front and rear are much more balanced.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Finalgear said:


> Drop down to 190psi should help, little trick is you want a little bit of the bottom of the DVO logo showing when you are sitting on the bike that will put you at the perfect sag level, kind of like a built in sag meter


Do you want to see just a bit of the letters or the square box that's over the second half of the logo?

Thanks a lot!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

MarcusBrody said:


> Do you want to see just a bit of the letters or the square box that's over the second half of the logo?
> 
> Thanks a lot!


Marcus,
On the Santa Cruz Bronson the top of your O-ring would pretty much be at the letter "D" as shown in these pics. This will give you @ 25% sag.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Cool, thanks!

I took it out for a first ride this morning (with sag probably between 20-25%). It felt really good, though I had to cut the ride short as my dog was being a butt head and I was short on time. I mostly climbed, but it felt smooth and kept better traction than my previous shock as I moved through the rooty switchback section of my climb.

Edit: MTBR won't let me rep you again, IRBent. Thanks for all your help in this thread!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

MarcusBrody said:


> Cool, thanks!
> 
> I took it out for a first ride this morning (with sag probably between 20-25%). It felt really good, though I had to cut the ride short as my dog was being a butt head and I was short on time. I mostly climbed, but it felt smooth and kept better traction than my previous shock as I moved through the rooty switchback section of my climb.
> 
> Edit: MTBR won't let me rep you again, IRBent. Thanks for all your help in this thread!


My online reputation means nothing to me. LOL I'm a newbie myself but have years of experience in maintenance and by nature am a curious guy who wants to understand how and why things work the way they do. I'm glad that I can share what I've learned and understand that my learning is far from complete.
I still don't quite understand the relationship between bladder pressure and air can pressure. Ultimately I want a plush and very reactive/lively rear suspension. A part of me says higher can pressure forces the shock to rebound quicker, part of being lively. But I also at times think a lower bladder pressure allows the rear to compress quicker. I know I can feel the effect of higher bladder pressure as it seems to make the shock less plush and maybe stiffer. But still, like I said, I'm learning. I may have it all backwards.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

My dvo out riot. Today I used all the travel on my topaz. Knocked the o ring off the back of the shock

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Raleighguy29 said:


> My dvo out riot. Today I used all the travel on my topaz. Knocked the o ring off the back of the shock
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Even though you used it all, did it bottom out harshly? A couple extra PSI in the air can should fix that and keep the O-ring on.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Even though you used it all, did it bottom out harshly? A couple extra PSI in the air can should fix that and keep the O-ring on.


It stayed bottom less no harsh bottom out like fox or rockshoxk does. Road a bike park and hit some massive g outs and that's when it happened.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Raleighguy29 said:


> It stayed bottom less no harsh bottom out like fox or rockshoxk does. Road a bike park and hit some massive g outs and that's when it happened.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When you say, "like fox or Rockshox does". When you saying that they tend to bottom out harshly?


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

IRBent said:


> When you say, "like fox or Rockshox does". When you saying that they tend to bottom out harshly?


Yes when I've had them and bottomed them out it was usually a nasty harsh. The topaz stays smooth and bottomless. You can feel it ramp up like a coil shock does.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

The closest I've come to bottoming my Topaz out, I still had maybe 8-10mm of shock left. I'm loving mine.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

IRBent said:


> The closest I've come to bottoming my Topaz out, I still had maybe 8-10mm of shock left. I'm loving mine.


I absolutely love the topaz. Such a silly smooth plush ride. Best rear air shock I've ridden

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Quick question. I am about to have my LBS order the Topaz to replace my Monarch RT on my Hightower. I know I need the M8x22 mounting hardware. Do I also need the IGUS DU bushings kit?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

No it will have the bushings already installed


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Finalgear said:


> No it will have the bushings already installed


Thanks Finalgear. After months of following this thread I finally bit the bullet and ordered the Topaz. Hope to have it up and running for the holiday weekend!


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## Golf_Chick (Aug 22, 2013)

I've ordered a Topaz too for my MK1 Bronson, now I just need to figure out what to do with my Canecreek IL.


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## Guest (May 24, 2017)

Golf_Chick said:


> I've ordered a Topaz too for my MK1 Bronson, now I just need to figure out what to do with my Canecreek IL.


wall-art


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

A buddy of mine posted a pic from Mulberry Gap of a lamp made from a Santa Cruz frame. Maybe your CaneCreek inline can be gutted and used for a desk lamp.


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## westsid3r (Nov 6, 2012)

Can anyone share a quick long term update post on the Topaz's durability and performance through the months? Thanks!


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

westsid3r said:


> Can anyone share a quick long term update post on the Topaz's durability and performance through the months? Thanks!


I've got about 100 hours on mine. It's on a HD3. Ridden in all sorts of weather and haven't serviced the air sleeve yet, still riding very plush. Only issue I had was my fault. I didn't check the bladder pressure for quite a while and it got really low and I ended up with air in the damper oil and had to do a damper rebleed at about 60 hours ride time. It was the easiest bleed job ever - most impressed. It's been perfect since then. Now I check the bladder pressure often.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Anyone have suggestions for setting up my Hightower? I am between 230 and 235 geared up. I ride flow trails, rooty rocky PNW single track and have been working hard on learning jumps and 3-5 foot drops. I have been riding my Monarch at about 25 percent sag to have more "pop" and to decrease pedal strikes.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> I've got about 100 hours on mine. Only issue I had was my fault. I didn't check the bladder pressure for quite a while and it got really low and I ended up with air in the damper oil and had to do a damper rebleed at about 60 hours ride time. It was the easiest bleed job ever - most impressed. It's been perfect since then. Now I check the bladder pressure often.


When you say a damper rebleed. What exactly does that mean? I've seen a tech sheet where they show how to totally disassemble the shock, including removal of the bladder and replacing the oil. Is that what you did, an oil change?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> When you say a damper rebleed. What exactly does that mean? I've seen a tech sheet where they show how to totally disassemble the shock, including removal of the bladder and replacing the oil. Is that what you did, an oil change?


yep, correct. Only I didn't change all the seals given they weren't worn out, I just changed the oil. You will see at the end of the instructions the procedure to make sure all air is out of the oil.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I've tighten the valve core on the piggy back however i noticed after riding and checking for another ride let say 1 - 2 week. Its loosing air, however on the air can it doesn't loose any air. 

Is this normal?


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## westsid3r (Nov 6, 2012)

fresh tracks said:


> I've got about 100 hours on mine. It's on a HD3. Ridden in all sorts of weather and haven't serviced the air sleeve yet, still riding very plush. Only issue I had was my fault. I didn't check the bladder pressure for quite a while and it got really low and I ended up with air in the damper oil and had to do a damper rebleed at about 60 hours ride time. It was the easiest bleed job ever - most impressed. It's been perfect since then. Now I check the bladder pressure often.


Thanks for the update! Truly loving the positive reviews this rear shock has.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> yep, correct. Only I didn't change all the seals given they weren't worn out, I just changed the oil. You will see at the end of the instructions the procedure to make sure all air is out of the oil.


So, while I've seen the tech manual to do this job myself, I've got one question about it. They show a tool that looks like a small T handle that they use to maybe unscrew and remove the bladder itself. Can you better describe how the bladder section is removed and does it require a special tool like the T handle thing shown in the manual?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

rave81 said:


> I've tighten the valve core on the piggy back however i noticed after riding and checking for another ride let say 1 - 2 week. Its loosing air, however on the air can it doesn't loose any air.
> 
> Is this normal?


Howmuch air are you talking about?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rave81 said:


> I've tighten the valve core on the piggy back however i noticed after riding and checking for another ride let say 1 - 2 week. Its loosing air, however on the air can it doesn't loose any air.
> 
> Is this normal?


You also have to remember, it's impossible to "check" the air pressure in the bladder with a shock pump without losing tons of pressure. Since the bladder only holds a tiny amount of air but at high pressure, as soon as you connect your hose and the hose fills, you can essentially double the available space for the bladder air which will reduce the pressure by one half. Boyle's gas law 101. Even with a pump that has a connected that has a threadable plunger to depress the Schrader valve it's nearly impossible not to disturb the bladder pressure. I've tried connecting, pumping the pump up to the same pressure as the bladder, then screwing the plunger connector in on my pump to depress the bladder Schrader valve on the bladder, and have found even that method is too much of an air pressure variance, or with my pump it's nearly impossible to screw the barrel connector in to depress the Schrader valve when the pump hose has 200 psi in it. So, how do you know you're losing pressure in the bladder other than the ride characteristics change?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

the T handle is not hard to make. I went into an auto store, bought about 4 car valve extenders, joined them together and figured out a basic T handle arrangement. Works fine, cost hardly anything.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> the T handle is not hard to make. I went into an auto store, bought about 4 car valve extenders, joined them together and figured out a basic T handle arrangement. Works fine, cost hardly anything.


Yeah, I even have a machine shop or two on site that I could make a proper tool. I guess my confusion is how the Schrader valve, cap and bladder attach to the reservoir body. I was thinking it was a threaded cap but mechanically I can't fathom how a right hand threaded Schrader could be used to connect them together without causing issues threading or unthreading the end piece. So without looking, is there an internal snap ring that holds the bladder assembly inside the reservoir?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

IRBent said:


> Yeah, I even have a machine shop or two on site that I could make a proper tool. I guess my confusion is how the Schrader valve, cap and bladder attach to the reservoir body. I was thinking it was a threaded cap but mechanically I can't fathom how a right hand threaded Schrader could be used to connect them together without causing issues threading or unthreading the end piece. So without looking, is there an internal snap ring that holds the bladder assembly inside the reservoir?


yes there is a snap ring holding in the bladder


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> yes there is a snap ring holding in the bladder


Thanks for the clarification. I figured it had to be simple.


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## Klainmeister (Apr 14, 2012)

Anyone run one of these on a Kona Process? The wife has a 153 and we're considering this. It seems like the tuneability would be ideal for a single-pivot style bike like the Process.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Been riding my Topaz on a 5010 for a few weeks and can't quite get the pop back in the bike. The DPS I had stock popped nice and was good until things got super rough/fast. The Topaz keeps up in the gnarl and at speed but I'm bummed I can't tune the pop back in. It also feels pretty sluggish uphill and at slower speeds in general.

Weigh about 168. Started at 190/170 (main/bladder) with one positive spacer and have since gone to 200+/180 and 2 positive spacers at DVO's suggestion. Anyone else have this issue? Is it typical to piggyback shocks? Given all the rave reviews I'm willing to think I'm tuning incorrectly.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> Weigh about 168. Started at 190/170 (main/bladder) with one positive spacer and have since gone to 200+/180 and 2 positive spacers at DVO's suggestion. Anyone else have this issue? Is it typical to piggyback shocks? Given all the rave reviews I'm willing to think I'm tuning incorrectly.


I weigh 7-10 pounds more than your stated weight once I'm geared up and I ride a Bronson. I have 200psi in the can with only one tuning band on the positive side, and currently running 175psi in the bladder with my rebound at maybe 3 clicks closed from wide open. Mine seems fine to me. How is your rebound set?


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

IRBent said:


> I weigh 7-10 pounds more than your stated weight once I'm geared up and I ride a Bronson. I have 200psi in the can with only one tuning band on the positive side, and currently running 175psi in the bladder with my rebound at maybe 3 clicks closed from wide open. Mine seems fine to me. How is your rebound set?


About the same, 2-3 clicks from full fast. Curious what future tweaking and others insight will yield.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> About the same, 2-3 clicks from full fast. Curious what future tweaking and others insight will yield.


I've read everything I can find on Topaz tweaking and still don't totally understand the relationship between bladder pressure and air can pressure. I feel like more air can pressure would help make things more reactive, or poppy. But more bladder pressure acts like adding extra shims to an IFP type damper. So I tend to run lower bladder pressure and higher can pressure thinking it helps to shock react quicker. I may be totally wrong though. I've thought about ordering a Shockwiz just to test the Topaz under different scenarios to see what kind of effect it would have on Shockwiz' idea of good and bad.


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

This post actually offered zero information...yeah you like DVO.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

artsn said:


> This post actually offered zero information...yeah you like DVO.


If you read every post in this forum and found "zero information", maybe we just need to draw pictures and hand you crayons.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> About the same, 2-3 clicks from full fast. Curious what future tweaking and others insight will yield.


I only have a few rides on my new Topaz, which replaced a CC DBair on my Knolly Warden. I tuned the DBair to be more poppy by reducing the HSR damping, which made the bike feel much better than the base tune. With the Topaz, I have 1 spacer in the negative side, which adds much more mid-stroke support than the DBair ever had. I have been finding that the Topaz does feel poppy, but I have to be more intentional by preloading the shock more than I had to with the DBair. Maybe try putting in a band on the negative side and see what happens. It took a few runs for me to figure out what I had to do to get some more pop with the added mid-stroke support.

With this being said, I am still working on tuning the shock so please take this with a grain of salt!


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## hulster (May 28, 2017)

matsf said:


> With the Topaz, I have 1 spacer in the negative side, which adds much more mid-stroke support than the DBair ever had. I have been finding that the Topaz does feel poppy, but I have to be more intentional by preloading the shock more than I had to with the DBair. Maybe try putting in a band on the negative side and see what happens. It took a few runs for me to figure out what I had to do to get some more pop with the added mid-stroke support.


I don't think it will help to tune the spring as long as you are overall satisfied with it. To me sounds it is a bit over damped on the rebound side or too smooth on the compression side. So you may like to try to reduce rebound a click or 2. If that may not work for you cause get the bike too much kicking try to increase the pressure of the bladder a bit.
Going just throughout this thread it looks to me people mixing things a bit up sometimes for spring and damper, when talking about the bladder tuning. Maybe I'm wrong.
The bladder affects the damping not the spring, even it could help as side affect to give some reserver for bottom out.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

artsn said:


> This post actually offered zero information...yeah you like DVO.


I smell a troll or someone that should not be riding bikes.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Send me an email bro.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> I smell a troll or someone that should not be riding bikes.


I offered them a set of crayons so they could color the pictures. That might be more on their level.


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## Guest (May 29, 2017)

IRBent said:


> I offered them a set of crayons so they could color the pictures. That might be more on their level.


you do know that's far too generous yes??


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## artsn (Jun 22, 2004)

Sorry guys. That was lame. I agree.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Have been out on my new Topaz and it so much better than the stock Monarch Rt for what I am riding. After reading this thread I settled on 1 band in the positive chamber, 200 PSI in the bladder and about 250 PSI in the main canister. Sag is about 15mm/27 percent. My HT is picking up so much speed now after pumping. I am also finding it easier to try jumps and drops that I was struggling with just a week ago. I like the feel so far. I am about 233lbs with my gear, if I wanted a little more "pop" should I put more air in the can or try a second band and drop my PSI in the main can a little bit? I am still very new to this.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> Have been out on my new Topaz and it so much better than the stock Monarch Rt for what I am riding. I like the feel so far. I am about 233lbs with my gear, if I wanted a little more "pop" should I put more air in the can or try a second band and drop my PSI in the main can a little bit? I am still very new to this.


Maybe Finalgear will answer but my thought is:
The more pressure you have in the bladder, the more dampening the shock exhibits. More dampening I'd think would lend to less pop. I too prefer a more active lively shock.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

IRBent said:


> Maybe Finalgear will answer but my thought is:
> The more pressure you have in the bladder, the more dampening the shock exhibits. More dampening I'd think would lend to less pop. I too prefer a more active lively shock.


Ok. I read what you wrote and then read the section on the bladder from DVO:



> HOW WILL THE PRESSURE AFFECT THE PERFORMANCE?
> 
> The pressure within the bladder will have a drastic affect on performance. As we talked about before, the higher the pressure the less chance you have of cavitation. The pressure range of the bladder is 170-200PSI. The bladder pressure also has an effect on the entire stroke of the shock. The higher the bladder pressure the firmer the shock will be. The lower the pressure, the softer. Lighter riders can run a lower bladder pressure and heavier riders should ride a higher pressure.


I was under the impression that a firmer shock (or more dampening in this case) would lead to a firmer shock that is harder to bottom out, provides a stiffer resistance platform for pumping into jumps and decreases small bump compliance. But if I am jumping and doing drops, I should run maybe 185, 190 in the bladder to get more of that "poppy" feel and than use a higher pressure for days with more climbing or smooth trails with minimal features?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> Ok. I read what you wrote and then read the section on the bladder from DVO:
> 
> I was under the impression that a firmer shock (or more dampening in this case) would lead to a firmer shock that is harder to bottom out, provides a stiffer resistance platform for pumping into jumps and decreases small bump compliance. But if I am jumping and doing drops, I should run maybe 185, 190 in the bladder to get more of that "poppy" feel and than use a higher pressure for days with more climbing or smooth trails with minimal features?


And that's why I said, maybe Finalgear will respond. But in a sense, yes. The bladder replaces a traditional IFP and in my mind the higher the bladder pressure, the slower the oil can move through the system. This would slow things down on both compression and possibly the rebound stroke. That's where my mind gets tangled. Higher bladder pressure would tend to push the oil back faster just as it would resist the movement to the bladder. So a part of me says I'd like a lighter weight oil and a higher pressure if I wanted quicker response and a more playful shock. So far it seems my preference with the shock in stock form is to have a lower bladder pressure and higher air can pressure. But it may be due to my trail system characteristics.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

IRBent said:


> And that's why I said, maybe Finalgear will respond. But in a sense, yes. The bladder replaces a traditional IFP and in my mind the higher the bladder pressure, the slower the oil can move through the system. This would slow things down on both compression and possibly the rebound stroke. That's where my mind gets tangled. Higher bladder pressure would tend to push the oil back faster just as it would resist the movement to the bladder. So a part of me says I'd like a lighter weight oil and a higher pressure if I wanted quicker response and a more playful shock. So far it seems my preference with the shock in stock form is to have a lower bladder pressure and higher air can pressure. But it may be due to my trail system characteristics.


I hope Finalgear chimes in too, but I have seen enough of your posts to respect what you have you to say.  I'm gonna drop my bladder pressure today and see how that feels on the trail. Thanks for taking the time share your thoughts.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> I hope Finalgear chimes in too, but I have seen enough of your posts to respect what you have you to say.  I'm gonna drop my bladder pressure today and see how that feels on the trail. Thanks for taking the time share your thoughts.


Now I feel sorry for you. LOL. I'm just an end user like yourself. What I've found to feel soft, reactive and playful may be too soft for you depending on your trails. I'm running my bladder 5psi or so lower than recommended and the air can at recommendation or a touch higher, with rebound almost open. I've yet to get the shock to really pop without having the rebound a touch too open. But, it might be the feeling of too open might be what we're both looking for. However my previous shock couldn't do that without harsh high speed compliance and I grew accustomed to a slow shock and now fear getting booted up and over the bars. I will admit my times are faster with higher pressures but the rear feels like it's skipping over the top of chatter rather than tracking the ground. I'd love to know exactly which oil they use stock on our beloved Topaz. That way we all could experiment. Since my trails are fairly tame, void of large jumps and drops, yet full of high speed chatter, a lighter weight oil might give me the action I'm looking for.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Now I feel sorry for you. LOL. I'm just an end user like yourself. What I've found to feel soft, reactive and playful may be too soft for you depending on your trails. I'm running my bladder 5psi or so lower than recommended and the air can at recommendation or a touch higher, with rebound almost open. I've yet to get the shock to really pop without having the rebound a touch too open. But, it might be the feeling of too open might be what we're both looking for. However my previous shock couldn't do that without harsh high speed compliance and I grew accustomed to a slow shock and now fear getting booted up and over the bars. I will admit my times are faster with higher pressures but the rear feels like it's skipping over the top of chatter rather than tracking the ground. I'd love to know exactly which oil they use stock on our beloved Topaz. That way we all could experiment. Since my trails are fairly tame, void of large jumps and drops, yet full of high speed chatter, a lighter weight oil might give me the action I'm looking for.


Adding a negative band without changing air pressures seemed to help the shock from moving too quickly through the initial travel and added a little more pop. Felt pretty sluggish before I did that.

Overall, it still feels like I need to preload more than I did with the Fox DPS EVOL. I also think my experimentation is steering me towards your thinking on the air pressures. Missing the pop and playfullness the Fox had (SC 5010), but so far it hasn't gotten hung up or wallowed in more aggressive situations, which is why I bought it. Will be pretty psyched if I can tune in more pop without making it too stiff.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

rodzilla said:


> Have been out on my new Topaz and it so much better than the stock Monarch Rt for what I am riding. After reading this thread I settled on 1 band in the positive chamber, 200 PSI in the bladder and about 250 PSI in the main canister. Sag is about 15mm/27 percent. My HT is picking up so much speed now after pumping. I am also finding it easier to try jumps and drops that I was struggling with just a week ago. I like the feel so far. I am about 233lbs with my gear, if I wanted a little more "pop" should I put more air in the can or try a second band and drop my PSI in the main can a little bit? I am still very new to this.


Sorry been super busy the last 5 days, ok try one band in the Negative chamber and speed up your rebound a hair that will give you some pop


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

rodzilla said:


> Ok. I read what you wrote and then read the section on the bladder from DVO:
> 
> I was under the impression that a firmer shock (or more dampening in this case) would lead to a firmer shock that is harder to bottom out, provides a stiffer resistance platform for pumping into jumps and decreases small bump compliance. But if I am jumping and doing drops, I should run maybe 185, 190 in the bladder to get more of that "poppy" feel and than use a higher pressure for days with more climbing or smooth trails with minimal features?


Ok so i read what you said and we do have the T3 switch for climbing just put it into the middle setting i cant remember what bike you are running or your weight.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Finalgear said:


> Sorry been super busy the last 5 days, ok try one band in the Negative chamber and speed up your rebound a hair that will give you some pop


Ok I will try that. Should I keep the band in the positive chamber?



Finalgear said:


> Ok so i read what you said and we do have the T3 switch for climbing just put it into the middle setting i cant remember what bike you are running or your weight.


Instead of changing pressures you are suggesting that I use the trail and climb modes? I am riding the 2016 Hightower and weigh between 230-235 lbs. all kitted up.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

rodzilla said:


> Ok I will try that. Should I keep the band in the positive chamber?
> 
> Instead of changing pressures you are suggesting that I use the trail and climb modes? I am riding the 2016 Hightower and weigh between 230-235 lbs. all kitted up.


yeah leave the band in the positive side, and yes just use the T3 switch you dont want to keep taking out and adding air like that all the time.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Finalgear said:


> yeah leave the band in the positive side, and yes just use the T3 switch you dont want to keep taking out and adding air like that all the time.


Thank you for your input Finalgear! I will try that and let you know how it goes.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> Adding a negative band without changing air pressures seemed to help the shock from moving too quickly through the initial travel and added a little more pop. Felt pretty sluggish before I did that.
> 
> Overall, it still feels like I need to preload more than I did with the Fox DPS EVOL. I also think my experimentation is steering me towards your thinking on the air pressures. Missing the pop and playfullness the Fox had (SC 5010), but so far it hasn't gotten hung up or wallowed in more aggressive situations, which is why I bought it. Will be pretty psyched if I can tune in more pop without making it too stiff.


I'd like to know the outcome of your trials if you do toy with the air pressure idea. Of late I've been thinking it might be more playful with a lighter weight oil or maybe even reducing the rebound shim stack a bit. But I'm at odds with the lighter weight oil as I've yet to find anything stating which oil they use at the factory. All 2.5W oils aren't the same viscosity. Plus the picture in the full rebuild tech manual looks like they're using Maxima oil but Maxima doesn't show a 2.5W oil on their site. They do show multiple 3W oils though, each with a 40c viscosity @ 14. Golden Spectro makes a 2.5W with a viscosity of 10.4 and Redline's 2.5W clocks in at 8.3. Dropping the viscosity would effect the the damping on both sides though, compression and rebound. I'm not sure if I want both moving faster or not. But if all I want is a faster rebound, I'm sure I can get that by opening the rebound adjuster another click. I think I'm 3 clicks in from full open but 2 clicks kicked me around a bit. Fine tuning might be more of a challenge than I want to deal with, but I hate for anything to get the best of me.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

IRBent said:


> I'd like to know the outcome of your trials if you do toy with the air pressure idea.


I'd also like to hear how the air can/reservoir pressure tinkering goes to achieve more pop. Like Kaparzo, I have one band in the negative side and have to preload the shock more than I am used to to get enough pop. I think I have the air spring tuning pretty close to where I want it and will start playing with the air can and reservoir pressures to try to get the shock to feel a bit more lively.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

matsf said:


> I'd also like to hear how the air can/reservoir pressure tinkering goes to achieve more pop. Like Kaparzo, I have one band in the negative side and have to preload the shock more than I am used to to get enough pop. I think I have the air spring tuning pretty close to where I want it and will start playing with the air can and reservoir pressures to try to get the shock to feel a bit more lively.


So I'm not the only one who seems to think the shock is a bit slow. Maybe it's just a touch over damped altogether? Maybe lighter oil might help? I'd rather change the oil out than start screwing with the shims.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

What is your rebound at?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Finalgear said:


> What is your rebound at?


I think my rebound is 3 clicks in from full open. On HSC type stuff it feels like the rear is skimming across the high points, never rebounding to the low points. Open up the rebound a click and on larger stuff it's apt to rebound too quickly and jack me off the pedals.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

IRBent said:


> So I'm not the only one who seems to think the shock is a bit slow. Maybe it's just a touch over damped altogether? Maybe lighter oil might help? I'd rather change the oil out than start screwing with the shims.


It's just not quite where I want it to be. I would speed up my rebound but any faster and the back starts to buck me on jumps. I'm hoping that playing with the bladder and air spring pressures will help. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how the bladder pressure will change how the shock feels, I think trial and error will be the easiest way to sort it out.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

matsf said:


> It's just not quite where I want it to be. I would speed up my rebound but any faster and the back starts to buck me on jumps. I'm hoping that playing with the bladder and air spring pressures will help. I'm still having trouble wrapping my head around how the bladder pressure will change how the shock feels, I think trial and error will be the easiest way to sort it out.


Matsf,
Sounds like we're in the same boat, or having similar issues. Don't get me wrong, while I do discuss this, it's still 10 times better than my old Fox Float Evolution. I'm riding a SC Bronson over rocky, rooted trails and tend to avoid large drops. However I'm not afraid to take a jump that sends me 8-12 feet in distance but with low altitude 2-3 feet high, and landings that transition well. It's only on those jumps that I ever come close to using most of the travel. I weigh in around 175-178 in gear and my last notes say I'm running one tuning band on the positive, 200 in the can and 175 in the bladder with rebound wide open. Although I'm pretty sure I had to close the rebound several clicks (3 I think) due to getting jacked off the pedals. What are you riding, weight with gear, and such?


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

IRBent said:


> Matsf,
> Sounds like we're in the same boat, or having similar issues. Don't get me wrong, while I do discuss this, it's still 10 times better than my old Fox Float Evolution. I'm riding a SC Bronson over rocky, rooted trails and tend to avoid large drops. However I'm not afraid to take a jump that sends me 8-12 feet in distance but with low altitude 2-3 feet high, and landings that transition well. It's only on those jumps that I ever come close to using most of the travel. I weigh in around 175-178 in gear and my last notes say I'm running one tuning band on the positive, 200 in the can and 175 in the bladder with rebound wide open. Although I'm pretty sure I had to close the rebound several clicks (3 I think) due to getting jacked off the pedals. What are you riding, weight with gear, and such?


I'm about 175 lbs geared up and I'm on a Knolly Warden (6" travel, similar to Horst Link, modern geometry). I live and ride in the Northwest, so roots and rocks but also a fair number of smoother trails. I do enjoy jumps and drops and hit most of the bigger features at my local trails. Right now, I have 4 bands in the positive side and 1 in the negative, 185 in the can (~30% sag), 180 in the bladder, and rebound 3 clicks from open. I probably need to add another band to the positive side to get enough progression in the shock. Once I get that dialed I'm planning on toying with the air can and bladder pressures to see how that changes things.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

matsf said:


> I'm about 175 lbs geared up and I'm on a Knolly Warden (6" travel, similar to Horst Link, modern geometry). I live and ride in the Northwest, so roots and rocks but also a fair number of smoother trails. I do enjoy jumps and drops and hit most of the bigger features at my local trails. Right now, I have 4 bands in the positive side and 1 in the negative, 185 in the can (~30% sag), 180 in the bladder, and rebound 3 clicks from open. I probably need to add another band to the positive side to get enough progression in the shock. Once I get that dialed I'm planning on toying with the air can and bladder pressures to see how that changes things.


I'm headed to the Caribbean for a week, leaving next weekend. Rather than riding this weekend I opted to help Marshall a local race. Last summer I thought I'd just ride easy the week before vacation and ended up in the ground, separating my AC joint. Maybe when I get back from vacation I might toy with a lighter 2.5W oil and see how that effects the damping.


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

strongbear0 said:


> Thanks kmp, my wheels show up today so I can finally build up my bike. I'll ride the stock monarch, but from what I've read heavier riders seem to be pulling them off quickly so I'm on the hunt for a better rear shock. Narrowed it down to this and the float x or x2.


What did you end up going with and how is it working out?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Hey guys i would like to offer a special limited time 
(6/11/2017 11:59 PM) discount to members of this forum, 20% off a new Topaz you can email me if you are interested THIS DEAL IS NOW EXPIRED Thanks to all for placing your orders.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Apparently I jumped the gun. LOL. Can we make this retroactive?


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## DevinciSean (Sep 6, 2007)

Finalgear said:


> Hey guys i would like to offer a special limited time
> (6/11/2017 11:59 PM) discount to members of this forum, 20% off a new Topaz you can email me if you are interested [email protected]


New Topaz on the way?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

No no new topaz.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Final gear I just built a new foes trailmixer with a topaz and diamond set at 150 mm. I weigh 190 geared up. Can you give me a base tune for both shocks..?
Air bladder, main can, rebound and compression settings to get me started. 
Thanks for any help in advance.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, does having more pressure in the bladder help with using up all the travel on the topaz?
Just asking as I'm having a hell of a time trying to not chew up all the available travel. 
The shock is getting way too firm/not enough sag to stop using the travel up.
I am wondering though if I can up the air can pressure, and reduce the bladder? Would that soften things up a bit and still resist bottoming out?
Thanks!


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

What bike?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Ibis Mojo HD3. I heard the suspension design isn't very progressive after the mid travel point.. Might be why I'm struggling?


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Fxr.]
For the Diamond 127psi 7 on ott and and 10 on rebound and on the topaz go 200 main and bladder and no volume spacers


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Yeah could be why, now whats the current setup on the topaz? And your weight?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

3 bands in positive?(always get the naming mixed up) and 1 band in negative.
So 3 bands at the end with rebound adjustment and air valve etc and 1 band down near the stanchion end. 

I am finding I need around 220psi in the can to resist bottom out on my usual trails. But this results in only 10mm sag or so.

It seems to need 200psi to get the right amount of sag. But then gobbles up the travel too easy.

Around 87kg all kitted up. 190ish pounds I thnk that is.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

Add more volume bands to the positive chamber. I'm on a totally different bike (Banshee Spitfire) but I'm running around body weight for psi and have four bands in the positive chamber and will probably be adding another.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

I have a similar thing with my Knolly Warden. 4 bands in the positive side, 1 in the negative, 185psi in the main can, 180psi in the bladder for my ~170 lbs. With these settings, I have a bit too little sag (less than 25% when Knolly recommends 30%) and I use all of the travel fairly easily. My local shop suggested increasing the bladder pressure, which I will try on my ride today.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

matsf said:


> I have a similar thing with my Knolly Warden. 4 bands in the positive side, 1 in the negative, 185psi in the main can, 180psi in the bladder for my ~170 lbs. With these settings, I have a bit too little sag (less than 25% when Knolly recommends 30%) and I use all of the travel fairly easily. My local shop suggested increasing the bladder pressure, which I will try on my ride today.


Do 190 in the bladder and 190 in the main can.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> 3 bands in positive?(always get the naming mixed up) and 1 band in negative.
> So 3 bands at the end with rebound adjustment and air valve etc and 1 band down near the stanchion end.
> 
> I am finding I need around 220psi in the can to resist bottom out on my usual trails. But this results in only 10mm sag or so.
> ...


what do you have in the bladder?


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks, I'll give it a try...
Your doing a great service for your customers and I'm sure they all appreciate it as much as I do.
Thanks again.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

190 in the bladder at the moment

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

amish_matt said:


> Add more volume bands to the positive chamber. I'm on a totally different bike (Banshee Spitfire) but I'm running around body weight for psi and have four bands in the positive chamber and will probably be adding another.


Just confirming, positive side is the end with rebound and air valve etc?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> 190 in the bladder at the moment
> Put 200 psi in the bladder that should be better.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Just confirming, positive side is the end with rebound and air valve etc?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Yes


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

What is the process for decreasing stroke volume if need be for potential rear tire clearance issues? Say taking it from 57 to 54 or so if its close? Trying to decide if I take my chance to long shock...


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

Erockowitz said:


> What is the process for decreasing stroke volume if need be for potential rear tire clearance issues? Say taking it from 57 to 54 or so if its close? Trying to decide if I take my chance to long shock...


What would be the reason for doing this? just get the correct shock from the start.


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## dwojo (Jun 11, 2017)

fxr man said:


> Thanks, I'll give it a try...
> Your doing a great service for your customers and I'm sure they all appreciate it as much as I do.
> Thanks again.


I can't agree enough. I have a new Topaz ordered/enroute and despite the great performance/tunability of the shock it was the incredible support and user servicing that was the clincher for me. I'm choosing to replace a brand new Fox Float X on my Zerode Taniwha build which is apparently a very good shock but I think the Topaz is just a great long-term investment. Well done guys.


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## Finalgear (Dec 16, 2006)

dwojo said:


> I can't agree enough. I have a new Topaz ordered/enroute and despite the great performance/tunability of the shock it was the incredible support and user servicing that was the clincher for me. I'm choosing to replace a brand new Fox Float X on my Zerode Taniwha build which is apparently a very good shock but I think the Topaz is just a great long-term investment. Well done guys.


Awesome thanks because at the end of the day this is what we want, Happy Riders and this is the reason we go above and beyond in the customer support department.


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

Finalgear said:


> What would be the reason for doing this? just get the correct shock from the start.


A couple reasons. I would like more travel for some riding I do on trips. And, my next bike will likely be longer travel so transferring this over would be a nice luxury. I have heard the 57 will fit on 5010 v2.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

165lbs rider on a SC 5010 v2. Currently running 190/180 (main/bladder) with 2pos and 1neg spacer. Don't quite have the pop back in the bike but almost, and it is tracking pretty well but also haven't removed all of the parking lot rear wheel bounce. Running 4 clicks from full-fast rebound (going to 2 didn't add any pop).

Will adding another negative help? Should I also add a positive to keep the bottom out resistance? Thx!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> 165lbs rider on a SC 5010 v2. Currently running 190/180 (main/bladder) with 2pos and 1neg spacer. Don't quite have the pop back in the bike but almost, and it is tracking pretty well but also haven't removed all of the parking lot rear wheel bounce. Running 4 clicks from full-fast rebound (going to 2 didn't add any pop).
> 
> Will adding another negative help? Should I also add a positive to keep the bottom out resistance? Thx!


Karpazo,

Your experience and question sounds very typical to mine, SC Bronson same body weight and very similar shock setup, yet not as active as I'd like. I'm returning to the U.S. next week where I hope to try a lighter viscosity 2.5W oil to see if it will help. I weigh closer to 175 with gear, 200 in the air can, 180 in the bladder, and either 3 or 4 clicks closed from full open on the rebound. But I think I only have one band on the positive side.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

My understanding is that reducing negative chamber volume via bands will cut into your mid-stroke support, not improve it. It's somewhat of a tradeoff between early stroke suppleness and "pop". If you run no negative bands, early stroke suppleness will be high, but the bike won't feel as "poppy" at the outset. If you run more negative bands, the shock will feel a little firmer in the early stroke, but it may effect midstroke support if you run lower pressures to compensate for early stroke firmness.

I'm still working on my Topaz, but it seems to me like adding more pressure to the bladder would also make a difference in support without hurting midstroke support quite as much as tweaking the air spring (if you're looking for a firmer feel).


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

Are you running 50mm topaz? What benefits did you see when switching to topaz from assuming dps evol? Small bump compliance? More plush feeling overall? How's the pedaling? You say you are trying to get pop back, but do current benefits outweigh loss of pop if further tuning keeps it as is? Thank you in advanced for any feedback and experience


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

I think it's also important to define what "pop" is to know what we are solving for - it's a sort of "catch-all" term in the world of suspension.

Some food for thought, where each bullet implies a different action in tuning:
-Are you defining "pop" as early stroke support? (If yes, less negative volume may help)
-Are you defining "pop" as mid-stroke support? (If yes, more negative volume + more pressure may help)
-Are you defining "pop" as the shock's return speed? (If yes, try reducing rebound damping)


UPDATE: I exchanged emails with Ronnie, and he mentioned that the bladder should NOT be viewed as a tuning instrument. He advised that, at my 170lb body weight and advanced riding ability, I run 210 psi in the air spring and 180 psi in the bladder. If I decide to mess with the air spring, he said to leave the bladder at 180 and not touch it.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Yes on 50mm Topaz, coming off a DPS Evol. It's much better in terms of mid and end stroke support. During high speed and rough terrain, the DPS hung up pretty quickly. I'd say the benefits outweigh the current tune's lack of pop (comparatively) since I use the bike as a downhill oriented machine. 

I say "pop" in reference to the first bullet point. My experience with the bladder is that it's better used to regulate higher speed shock feel and while it does firm up the shock at higher pressures, it does not reduce the amount of energy required to preload and then "pop" the bike. Seems more like an HSC adjustment, but I also don't have much experience with tuning suspension so take that with a grain of salt.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Karpazo,
> 
> Your experience and question sounds very typical to mine, SC Bronson same body weight and very similar shock setup, yet not as active as I'd like. I'm returning to the U.S. next week where I hope to try a lighter viscosity 2.5W oil to see if it will help. I weigh closer to 175 with gear, 200 in the air can, 180 in the bladder, and either 3 or 4 clicks closed from full open on the rebound. But I think I only have one band on the positive side.


Curious what DVO would say about changing oil types, but doing that myself would probably exceed my pay grade anyway! I'm going to try adding a negative band and see what happens.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> Curious what DVO would say about changing oil types, but doing that myself would probably exceed my pay grade anyway! I'm going to try adding a negative band and see what happens.


Here's about what they said about changing the oil. Ronnie at DVO said they use Pro Circuit PC-02 2.5W oil that according to my research just might be Showa SS-25, which has a 12.5 cSt viscosity at 40C. Ronnie told me to contact him when I went to change the fluid and he'd tell me how to adjust the rebound shim stack to get more rebound which I translate into added pop. So, I think in DVO's opinion nobody is in over their pay grade when working on their suspension components. That's what I like about them, they offer all the support any user could ever want. No smoke and mirrors or claims that opening it up will void your warranty. But if you feel the task is over your head, I bet they'd gladly accept your shock and tune its internals to your liking for a price.


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## rikkas (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi Guys.
I have a Bronson v2 with DVO Topaz that I don't like too much. Before I had the Turner Rfx and on that bike it was great.
On the Bronson I feel the rear a little bit nervous and I can't get the best from the Topaz and I'm thinking to sell it.
My settings are:
weight 187 lbs with all the gear
1 band in the positive
190 psi in the air can and 175 psi in the bladder
rebound 1-2 click from fully open
I know i'm under the advised psi but i feel the shock hard if I increase pressure.
Do you have the last (before selling the shock) advice for me? I've read nearly all the post and I could try the settings of IRBent who gave me some tips in the past.
I know that vpp is not dw-link but I would not have expected such a different behavior of the topaz on the two bikes.
thanks 
Simone


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

zhendo said:


> My understanding is that reducing negative chamber volume via bands will cut into your mid-stroke support, not improve it.


Someone at DVO told me adding a band to the negative chamber will increase mid stroke support. I have only ridden the shock with 1 band in the negative side so I can't actually say from experience.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rikkas said:


> Hi Guys.
> I have a Bronson v2 with DVO Topaz that I don't like too much. Before I had the Turner Rfx and on that bike it was great.
> On the Bronson I feel the rear a little bit nervous and I can't get the best from the Topaz and I'm thinking to sell it.
> My settings are:
> ...


Simone,

Did you go through the equalization process by adding maybe 20psi at a time and slowly compressing the shock and holding it compressed a few seconds each time? If the positive and negative chambers aren't equalized the shock will under perform. At 187lbs I'd think you'd indeed need more like 205-210 in the main air can. Adding more in the bladder to me seems to just make the shock slower and stiffer, like adding another shim to the compression side. So if you want more action or a lighter action, the 175psi in the bladder might be where you'd need to be. I'm going to experiment with a lower viscosity oil in the next few weeks and illegal let you all know if I can tell a difference.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

matsf said:


> Someone at DVO told me adding a band to the negative chamber will increase mid stroke support. I have only ridden the shock with 1 band in the negative side so I can't actually say from experience.


That's sort of my understanding too but I thought it shifted the entire curve a bit more upward. In other words, it takes a bit more force to get the shock to moving initially which could also take a bit away from the suppleness.


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## rikkas (Feb 22, 2017)

Hi IRBent! Yes, I've done the equalization process every 50 psi, I'll try 20 psi at a time.
Thanks for your reply


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

rikkas said:


> Hi IRBent! Yes, I've done the equalization process every 50 psi, I'll try 20 psi at a time.
> Thanks for your reply


What about the shock feels "bad"? In your first post you didn't really describe what the poor feeling is, just that it isn't measuring up to your expectations. Folks might be able to help if you can give some detail about what you don't like. Also, try shooting an email to DVO's support email, they are super helpful.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

IRBent said:


> That's sort of my understanding too but I thought it shifted the entire curve a bit more upward. In other words, it takes a bit more force to get the shock to moving initially which could also take a bit away from the suppleness.


I'm not sure that makes sense to me...

Look at this post from Vorsprung on the impact of the Corset: (https://vorsprung-suspension.myshop...sprung-corset-air-sleeves-the-how-and-the-why)

The Corset appears to add a huge amount of negative volume to the air spring, which was a massive improvement over older Fox shocks (and, arguably still an improvement over Fox's EVOL shocks). This is what DVO has also tried to achieve with the Topaz air spring, which has larger than normal negative volume.

I don't pretend to be an expert on any of this, but as you can see in the curve on the first graph, it appears that the function of the larger negative volume is to make the spring curve more linear. So, rather than a conventional air spring with a smaller negative volume where you have a lot of resistance in the early travel, then falling off into the flatter mid-stroke curve, then ramping up hard, the larger negative spring of the Corset (and Topaz) allows the shock to more closely mimic the linear nature of a coil spring.

The spacers change the shape of the curve - lower negative spring volume via more spacers will bring the curve closer to the shape of the "older" air spring, with a less plush feel in the early stroke. Some bikes have leverage curves designed for air springs with this characteristic, so I imagine that negative spring spacers will be required for certain bikes optimized for air shocks.

However, if you have a bike with a smooth leverage curve that works well with a coil, it seems like the stock negative spring volume should work well. So, unless you feel that the shock is sagging too far into the travel (or, at a given pressure, not allowing you to use full travel), it seems like you would not want to use negative spring spacers.


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## rikkas (Feb 22, 2017)

zhendo said:


> What about the shock feels "bad"? In your first post you didn't really describe what the poor feeling is, just that it isn't measuring up to your expectations. Folks might be able to help if you can give some detail about what you don't like. Also, try shooting an email to DVO's support email, they are super helpful.


It's bad because if i inflate it at 200psi it becomes hard to compress and the rebound is slow. Also i can't reach full travel and I don't feel that plushness I'm expecting from it.
So it seems that 1 band in the positive it's ok for vpp...i'll try to increase psi in the main can, lower a little bit the reservoir and test.
Thanks!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Erockowitz said:


> What is the process for decreasing stroke volume if need be for potential rear tire clearance issues? Say taking it from 57 to 54 or so if its close? Trying to decide if I take my chance to long shock...


They use a shim to reduce stroke on the 50. Remove that shim and it's 57. Smaller shim and it can be between 50-57mm. Not sure how to actually do it but give them a call and they will likely do it.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Has anyone else noticed the shine coming off the black stanchion? Mine looking pretty dull lately. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Is the anodizing fading, wearing or maybe grease..?


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Mine looks dull with the grease that builds up there. Wipe it off, it'll shine up nice.


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

*Topaz first thoughts*

Got my topaz out for its maiden voyage today. Obviously I don't have this dialed and will post a full review eventually, but my initial thoughts...

Out of the gate setting it based on DVO recommendations and what I have read here...feels GREAT! Not dialed and can definitely improve with tweaking and more ride time. Most noticeable difference from my fox dps evol was the ease to get this shock into early travel and resulting improved small bump compliance. I worried about pedal strikes with lower bottom bracket so added some air as I rode. I started the ride with 180 main/180 bladder one band in positive throughout ride (170lbs geared up on 2016 SC 5010, I went 57mm and tire and frame clearance is fine, a bit close to top tube on full compression but still clears ok and put carbon patch for any frame flex that COULD bump the frame. I know this voids warranty with SC but the bike is second hand anyways, so all good. Can post pics later).

I was sagging more than expected based on setting it up last night in my basement at 180, so went up to 190 then 195 in main and kept bladder at 180. Might drop bladder down as I tweak more with another band or more main can air. Don't notice too much on compression lever with different adjustments except the firm increases pressure needed to move from sag to mid stroke, which keeps techy climbs feeling planted even if running firm. Not as firm pedaling platform as dps evol, different, but felt great. Gives up bit for standing pedaling and hammering climbs, and long extended smooth fire road/road climbs. Not major negative a all, and overall initial advantages DEFINITELY worth it. Climbing isn't why I mountain bike, but most my trails have a fair amount.

Down hill it felt smooth and supple and I added air as I was sagging a bit too much to increase pedaling and keep travel a bit protected. I used about 95 percent of travel a 180 psi main so added a bit more as this was mellow trail as mentioned. Maybe another positive band, or negative?? Thoughts?

Overall, small bump compliance noticeably improved which is what I wanted. Felt good and bottomless and stable on 1 foot drops on this mellow trail.

Other stuff:

The topaz sticker on air can are upside down. Is this a dvo mishap or bike shop (not sure if it comes with stickers or my LBS messed it up).

There are two circular marks or scrapes on end of bladder, like the anodized black was hit and now is exposing base. What's this about? I picked it up from shop after mounted so not sure what the deal is. I can post pics later.

Box and shock pump are great and pump is compact which is nice as I use a small pack to carry with.

Rebound knob I had 4 (turns) from open, it doesn't really click so knowing exactly where you are can be vague. Getting to know the knob better will make this a moot point.

Any recommendations on setup DVO guys or users?

Super stoked to ride rowdier trails with this bad boy! Definitely feeling positive after just 11 miles and would recommend. Bike just feels smoother and more composed and planners and more capable in chop and short east rock gardens this trail has- basically what I wanted.

Hope this helps someone make a decision if considering the topaz


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

fxr man said:


> Is the anodizing fading, wearing or maybe grease..?


Not grease.. Always give it a clean before a ride.. Just quite dull the first 40% or so of the travel, where it spends most it's time I suppose.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

I am about to borrow a Quarq Shockwiz .. Anyone tried this on a topaz before?
Thanks


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> I am about to borrow a Quarq Shockwiz .. Anyone tried this on a topaz before?
> Thanks


Nope, but when you do let us know all the details, bike, rider weight, initial settings and what the Shockwiz has to say.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Erockowitz said:


> Got my topaz out for its maiden voyage today. Obviously I don't have this dialed and will post a full review eventually, but my initial thoughts...
> 
> Out of the gate setting it based on DVO recommendations and what I have read here...feels GREAT! Not dialed and can definitely improve with tweaking and more ride time. Most noticeable difference from my fox dps evol was the ease to get this shock into early travel and resulting improved small bump compliance. I worried about pedal strikes with lower bottom bracket so added some air as I rode. I started the ride with 180 main/180 bladder one band in positive throughout ride (170lbs geared up on 2016 SC 5010, I went 57mm and tire and frame clearance is fine, a bit close to top tube on full compression but still clears ok and put carbon patch for any frame flex that COULD bump the frame. I know this voids warranty with SC but the bike is second hand anyways, so all good. Can post pics later).
> 
> ...


Erockowitz,

Your experience sounds pretty much like mine. I'm 5-8 pounds heavier than you and on a Bronson. You mentioned one band on the positive and maybe some anodizing missing from the bladder after picking the bike up from the LBS. I take it you haven't been inside the shock yourself? If you watch DVO's video on adding tuning bands to the Topaz you'll find the air can and graphics on it can be oriented in any fashion you choose. Simple let the air out of the main can, remove the O-ring on the lower end, then turn the can to your desired position.

As for tuning, it sounds like you're all over my setup and depending on tour trails may could stand another band on the positive side or another 5-10 psi in the main can. I think my Bronson feels better and has less pedal strikes with the rear at 22-25% sag. Keeping the bands off the negative side to me seems to help keep things a little more active and plush on the small bump compliance by maintaining the largest negative chamber possible. Bottom line, your mini review sounds as if you're really stoked and pleased already. Welcome to the club. I'm loving my DVO experience as well. Let us know how things progress.


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## Erockowitz (Jun 8, 2017)

IRBent said:


> Erockowitz,
> 
> Your experience sounds pretty much like mine. I'm 5-8 pounds heavier than you and on a Bronson. You mentioned one band on the positive and maybe some anodizing missing from the bladder after picking the bike up from the LBS. I take it you haven't been inside the shock yourself? If you watch DVO's video on adding tuning bands to the Topaz you'll find the air can and graphics on it can be oriented in any fashion you choose. Simple let the air out of the main can, remove the O-ring on the lower end, then turn the can to your desired position.
> 
> As for tuning, it sounds like you're all over my setup and depending on tour trails may could stand another band on the positive side or another 5-10 psi in the main can. I think my Bronson feels better and has less pedal strikes with the rear at 22-25% sag. Keeping the bands off the negative side to me seems to help keep things a little more active and plush on the small bump compliance by maintaining the largest negative chamber possible. Bottom line, your mini review sounds as if you're really stoked and pleased already. Welcome to the club. I'm loving my DVO experience as well. Let us know how things progress.


I was in the air can to add a band. The sticker is upside down so DVO reads upside down, the can just rotates laterally you cannot flip it as far as I know because of the threaded top end. It's cosmetic, but still. The chips in the bladder are very bizarre, no idea what could have caused this. I may try more air pressure in the main and decrease bladder to decrease sag as you mentioned. It is nice that it is so easy to get to the bands for sure to switch them up and try different combos.

What are your current settings?

Can't wait to go ride this again.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Mine. Post shredding with my buddy


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Put the shockwiz on the topaz today. Everything actually looks pretty good. 
Suggested more low speed compression which I don't think you can adjust?
It sometimes suggested another spacer depending on the trails. I've always thought it needed another spacer so will do as it says. 









Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Put the shockwiz on the topaz today. Everything actually looks pretty good.
> Suggested more low speed compression which I don't think you can adjust?
> It sometimes suggested another spacer depending on the trails. I've always thought it needed another spacer so will do as it says.
> 
> ...


Refresh us on your bike make/model, shock setup as tested, Shockwiz tuning option (playful, balanced, etc) and rider weight. I may have to buy one of those toys.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Ibis Mojo HD3
210 psi in the can, 200 psi in the bladder
3x positive bands
1x negative band

86kg or so geared up.

I put the Shockwiz on 'playful'.. As most my riding is just out to have fun.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

I also learnt my DVO shock pump is pretty inaccurate compared to the Shockwiz..
The pump read 195psi when the shockwiz showed 210psi.
Concerns me a little, as means i've probably bee running more than 200psi in the bladder due to the dvo shock pump reading 15psi low.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Ibis Mojo HD3
> 210 psi in the can, 200 psi in the bladder
> 3x positive bands
> 1x negative band
> ...


Wow, so massively different than my current setup on my Bronson. Although I do understand different rear suspension designs have different leverage ratios and needs. Now you're going to force me to study the Mojo's suspension design to see how it compares to the Santa Cruz VPP system.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> I also learnt my DVO shock pump is pretty inaccurate compared to the Shockwiz..
> The pump read 195psi when the shockwiz showed 210psi.
> Concerns me a little, as means i've probably bee running more than 200psi in the bladder due to the dvo shock pump reading 15psi low.


I think if you take a look at the Shockwiz forum here you'll find everybody says the same thing. I use a digital shock pump and would like to compare it to the Shockwiz. I know my shock pump and stand alone digital gauge reads within 1-2psi of one another. So if the Shockwiz claims 10+psi more thany gauges I'd probably lean with the pressure sensor in the Shockwiz being off. 2 out of 3 read one thing, and the 3rd reads 10psi more.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

How does your setup look like?
I've always had issues with using all the travel too easily. So most my tuning to date has been trying to stop that happening, the bands, high bladder pressure etc.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

IRBent said:


> I think if you take a look at the Shockwiz forum here you'll find everybody says the same thing. I use a digital shock pump and would like to compare it to the Shockwiz. I know my shock pump and stand alone digital gauge reads within 1-2psi of one another. So if the Shockwiz claims 10+psi more thany gauges I'd probably lean with the pressure sensor in the Shockwiz being off. 2 out of 3 read one thing, and the 3rd reads 10psi more.


I guess all that matters now is that I know my shock pump needs to read 195psi, to get the correct settings advised by the shockwiz..


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> I guess all that matters now is that I know my shock pump needs to read 195psi, to get the correct settings advised by the shockwiz..


Exactly. Pressure gauges aren't all the same nor are they super accurate. If you get a certified calibrated gauge you're talking big bucks. I weigh in around 180 pounds/82kg with gear, run only one band on the positive side, 200 in the main can and dabble with 175-180 in the bladder. Running 22-25% sag and the shock feels great although I wish it moved a little faster or was more playful.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Exactly. Pressure gauges aren't all the same nor are they super accurate. If you get a certified calibrated gauge you're talking big bucks. I weigh in around 180 pounds/82kg with gear, run only one band on the positive side, 200 in the main can and dabble with 175-180 in the bladder. Running 22-25% sag and the shock feels great although I wish it moved a little faster or was more playful.


Oh yeah sag on mine is 26 - 30% .. Shockwiz was showing 30 when seated and 26 or so when in a more attack position.. 
Seems main difference is I have more bands added?

I think the suspension design on the HD3 must be really linear. Not progressive enough. As my old fox dps evol always was pushing the oring off, dvo topaz is the same.

The new HD4 I've heard they have made it a more progressive curve.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Oh yeah sag on mine is 26 - 30% .. Shockwiz was showing 30 when seated and 26 or so when in a more attack position..
> Seems main difference is I have more bands added?
> 
> I think the suspension design on the HD3 must be really linear. Not progressive enough. As my old fox dps evol always was pushing the oring off, dvo topaz is the same.
> ...


While this guys does really good suspension reviews, this one is for the Mojo 3, not the HD3. I'd assume they have very similar kinematics. Either way I'll delve deeper and see if I can find how the HD3 compares to the SC VPP system.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I had an issue on my Topaz that I think was caused by grease blocking the port on the negative side of the shock. I had a big nasty booger of grease there and when I removed all pressure from the shock it would suck down to zero travel. I spread the grease back around and the shock has great "pop" again and it's been working great since.

After reading through this thread here's what I've picked up, in one place for everyone:

*Negative Chamber*
Changes the initial shock curve. With zero bands, the shock curve will be very linear. By adding bands you can firm up the initial stroke, for bikes that have a high initial leverage ratio.

Generally speaking, fewer bands = better small-bump compliance, but if you are eating up your initial travel or spending too much time deeper in the shock stroke, you may need to add bands.

*Positive Chamber*
The positive chamber affects progressiveness of the shock. The more tokens you have in the shock, the more progressive it will act (which helps to prevent bottoming-out).

*Bladder*
Not to be used as a tuning tool. It affects how freely the oil can flow through the damper. Should be set based on your weight and left alone.

Did I get that all right?


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

Porch said:


> I had an issue on my Topaz that I think was caused by grease blocking the port on the negative side of the shock. I had a big nasty booger of grease there and when I removed all pressure from the shock it would suck down to zero travel. I spread the grease back around and the shock has great "pop" again and it's been working great since.
> 
> After reading through this thread here's what I've picked up, in one place for everyone:
> 
> ...


That seems to be the consensus, thanks for putting it all in one place.

I do find it curious that DVO recommends against using the bladder pressure as a tuning tool (assuming you stay within the 170-200psi range). I had been having issues with bottoming out when using 4 bands on the positive side and 1 on the negative. My LBS recommended increasing the bladder pressure, which certainly improved things. I'm trying the shock without the band on the negative side (still 4 on the positive side) and it seems to be ok with the recommended bladder pressure.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

My take. Increasing bladder pressure is similar to adding another shim on the compression side of an IFP type damper. It makes it harder for the fluid to move through the valve or orifice system. So by increasing the bladder pressure you're adding more compression damping. I may be off base though. I'd assume the opposite is true for rebound. The higher the bladder pressure the more force present to help push the oil back out of the bladder and into the shock.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

Porch said:


> I had an issue on my Topaz that I think was caused by grease blocking the port on the negative side of the shock. I had a big nasty booger of grease there and when I removed all pressure from the shock it would suck down to zero travel. I spread the grease back around and the shock has great "pop" again and it's been working great since.
> 
> After reading through this thread here's what I've picked up, in one place for everyone:
> 
> ...


Close, but my understanding is a little bit different for the negative chamber.

The large negative chamber helps to create a more linear spring curve. Vorsprung has some blog posts that help explain this with respect to the Corset. This linear spring curve may not jive with some frame designs that are designed for air shocks, because those frame kinematics will sometimes load up a lot of leverage into the beginning part of the leverage curve to overcome what, on typical shocks, is the high initial breakaway force in the spring curve caused by a smaller negative spring.

What this means for us as riders is that different bikes have different leverage curves, many of which may be designed for air shocks with smaller negative chambers. Thus, the bike will blow through its initial travel super easily, sometime feeling like a too-soft midstroke. On bikes with this characteristic, adding negative chamber spacers reduces the negative chamber size, creating a spring curve that has higher initial resistance...but if the bike is designed for that sort of spring curve, it feels better.

All that to say that the larger negative chamber actually creates MORE support in the midstroke, assuming a bike with a perfectly linear leverage curve. But, on bikes designed for air shocks with smaller negative chambers, it can translate to too much sag and mushy early-mid stroke feel.


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## rikkas (Feb 22, 2017)

Nothing to do...180 psi in the negative, 180 in the bladder and no bands is my setup to reach the full travel without bottoming out but I don't like the Topaz on my Bronson, too much nervous on Vpp compared to dwlink so I'm going to sell it to buy this: EXT STORIA LOK - ENDURO RACING - Extreme Racing Shox


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

zhendo said:


> Close, but my understanding is a little bit different for the negative chamber.
> 
> The large negative chamber helps to create a more linear spring curve. Vorsprung has some blog posts that help explain this with respect to the Corset. This linear spring curve may not jive with some frame designs that are designed for air shocks, because those frame kinematics will sometimes load up a lot of ... [snip]


That makes sense. I updated my post with what i felt was a "short/concise" explanation of what you said...hopefully it's better!


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

zhendo said:


> Close, but my understanding is a little bit different for the negative chamber.
> 
> The large negative chamber helps to create a more linear spring curve. Vorsprung has some blog posts that help explain this with respect to the Corset. This linear spring curve may not jive with some frame designs that are designed for air shocks, because those frame kinematics will sometimes load up a lot of leverage into the beginning part of the leverage curve to overcome what, on typical shocks, is the high initial breakaway force in the spring curve caused by a smaller negative spring.
> 
> ...


This is super helpful and seems to describe what I've experienced with the Topaz so far. The only question is if my SC 5010 with v3 VPP is one of these bikes that is designed for a smaller negative chamber?

I'm currently at 2POS/1NEG and considering adding another spacer to each. Currently (165lbs rider weight) @ 195psiMAIN/180psiBLADDER. Also considering going up 5psi each to add a little compression dampening, but starting with the bands is my first step because it seems to track the ground really well at these pressures.

I'm admittedly a suspension novice, but anyone else find the Topaz a bit tricky to setup. Seems like a great shock and looking forward to getting it dialed just right.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

The bladder, outside of pressurizing the damper to minimize cavitation, is nothing more than a spring in parallel with the main. Because it is such a small volume, its contribution to the overall curve is very progressive and therefore is mainly used to tune bottom support. 

Damping is speed sensitive. Springs are position sensitive. Bladder pressure changes don't have any effect on damping other than the small increase in seal drag.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

Kaparzo said:


> This is super helpful and seems to describe what I've experienced with the Topaz so far. The only question is if my SC 5010 with v3 VPP is one of these bikes that is designed for a smaller negative chamber?
> 
> I'm currently at 2POS/1NEG and considering adding another spacer to each. Currently (165lbs rider weight) @ 195psiMAIN/180psiBLADDER. Also considering going up 5psi each to add a little compression dampening, but starting with the bands is my first step because it seems to track the ground really well at these pressures.
> 
> I'm admittedly a suspension novice, but anyone else find the Topaz a bit tricky to setup. Seems like a great shock and looking forward to getting it dialed just right.


The last poster is correct - bladder pressure does not influence damping at all. Ronnie @ DVO told me to set bladder pressure and forget it.

You could look at this website: Linkage Design

It has a lot of common bikes and shows the leverage curve. My old Santa Cruz Nomad did have the curve that tries to accommodate for air shocks, and thus rode terribly with a coil shock.

One way to diagnose is to think about how the bike feels at the early and mid stroke. Do you have too much sag, but still don't bottom out? If so, you likely need more negative spacers.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Is there anyone out there using one of these on a niner wfo or any niner cva suspension? Looking at this shock to compliment a DVO diamond fork.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zhendo said:


> The last poster is correct - bladder pressure does not influence damping at all. Ronnie @ DVO told me to set bladder pressure and forget it.
> 
> You could look at this website: Linkage Design
> 
> ...


I too spoke with Ronnie today after the numerous emails he and I shared a few weeks back. He told me the very same thing, bladder pressure doesn't effect damping much. He did say it had a tiny initial travel effect but not much there after. He asked me for my weight and when I said 170 pounds without gear he said I should set my bladder to that pressure as well. I asked, what about gear as I'll add maybe 5+ pounds. He stuck to the low bladder pressure and even said that at 170 pounds his opinion is the tune is a bit too high and suggested considering removing a shim on the rebound side. We also discussed oil weights and viscosity. They recommend a 2.5W oil but not too many 2.5W oils have the same viscosity. With that said I had already asked which oil came in the Topaz from the factory and which oil was his preferred. He said he really likes the Driven SHX oil to which I responded, "I looked at their oils and they don't state the viscosity. He said he's been after them to get the viscosity info to him but he said he was pretty sure it was made by Red Line. I giggled when I told him I had Red Line's 2.5W in my hand and was about to change the oil to the lower viscosity Red Line. He said the Red Line "Like Water" was amazing and recommended it for me and my lower weight. With that said, my RWC needle bearing kit should be here tomorrow and I'll be able to mount to shock back on my Bronson. If I still think the tune is a bit too much I'll either buy a bottle of the Red Line "Like Water" and do another oil change. Or I'll do as his last email suggested, when I'm inside changing the oil, give hi ma call and he'd talk me through removing some of the shims. One thing I can say, these guys and their customer service is unheard of as far as I'm concerned. I'm positive you can't get support like this from Fox or Rockshox.

Note worthy. When changing the oil the bleed screw port is the same size as the Shimano XT/SLX brake bleed screw. So I just used my brake kit to make sure the air was out. Also to minimize the chance of air getting in I pulled an old school trick on the part of the instructions that says, "This move can be a little bit tricky. You
are going to flip the shaft on top of the
piston. Some oil will spill and that is ok.
Once you flip the shaft onto the piston,
thread it one or two rotations." I used a business card to cap off the shaft to hold the oil in. I then set the shaft and business card on top of the piston and quickly slid the card out. I might have lost 2-4ml of oil max. The bladder housing held around 20-25ml and the shaft held closer to 50ml. So if you're nifty you can do a complete oil change and only use 80-100ml depending on how much you spill. One other thing. Where the instructions said to flip the shaft and then thread it on by hand a few rounds, I removed the bleed screw and threaded it all the way down by hand. The amount of space the threads screwed in forced all of the air out and a tiny bit of oil came out of the bleed screw hole. I then put the screw back in, flipped it over and used the wrench to snug it down. Lastly I flipped the entire shock back over with the bleed screw up, removed the screw and threaded my Shimano bleed syringe in. I put maybe 15ml of oil in the syringe with the plunger laying on the table. Cycled the shock as suggested and never got a single bubble. I hope that means the system is void of air.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I pressed a RWC needle bearing into the bottom eye on my Topaz this afternoon. Maybe between the Red Line oil change yesterday and the bearing today, my shock will move a bit more freely.


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## SirSlow (Mar 31, 2014)

I'm looking forward to hear how these changes work out! ^^^


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

SirSlow said:


> I'm looking forward to hear how these changes work out! ^^^


Ha, me too. It's rained around 4-6" here in the last few days. I was out of the country last week and it rained a fair amount here that week too. My subdivision homeowners association probably doesn't like my knee deep grass any more than I do. So I've got to work on that while it isn't raining today. Maybe I'll get to ride some before dark. My bike misses me as it's been over 4 weeks since either of us have seen the trails.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

SirSlow said:


> I'm looking forward to hear how these changes work out! ^^^


Here's my first, yet somewhat limited opinion. My trail system was very wet so I didn't ride as fast as usual. I did spend a lot of time pointing the bike at the ugliest roots and rocks I could though. I also took on some high speed rock infested downhill sections and our flow trail with the largest jumps. But I didn't air it out as hard as usual due to the wet ground yet still cleared the jumps.

I set the bike up with 200psi in the can, the same as usual to achieve 25% sag. I had 175psi in the bladder which is a few psi greater than my body weight but a few less than my geared weight. I can't feel the detents in the rebound knob but I believe I'm @ 4-5 clicks from full open. The end results seem to be as suspected. Everything I ran over was mush. The rear tracked the ground well and was definitely moving through the travel easier. I used maybe 5-8mm more travel than I usually do yet still had 8-10mm left over after the hour and half. Some of the extra movement I'm sure is related to changing the oil out to Red Line 2.5W Extra Light, while the other could be the bearings in the lower shock eye. I really need more time and better trail conditions, or maybe a Shockwiz to back my opinion up. In the end yesterday, I was well pleased with the outcome. The rear felt more compliant and playful, exactly my goal.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

I looked at the Topaz service manual and some parts look very similar to Rockshox Monarch parts. Is there some kind of cooperation between DVO and Rockshox?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

arnea said:


> I looked at the Topaz service manual and some parts look very similar to Rockshox Monarch parts. Is there some kind of cooperation between DVO and Rockshox?


I'm sure there is no cooperation or collaboration. DVO is a bunch of guys who used to work for Marzochi. There's a lot of similarities between all manufacturers because it's not like they're reinventing the wheel. They're all making the same thing in a sense. The biggest difference between the Topaz and the Monarch is that DVO uses the bladder to pressurize the damping oil and the unit is totally user serviceable. Not to mention DVO will talk you through any service you need to perform. Try that with any other brand and you'll probably get no where.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Here's my first, yet somewhat limited opinion. My trail system was very wet so I didn't ride as fast as usual. I did spend a lot of time pointing the bike at the ugliest roots and rocks I could though. I also took on some high speed rock infested downhill sections and our flow trail with the largest jumps. But I didn't air it out as hard as usual due to the wet ground yet still cleared the jumps.
> 
> I set the bike up with 200psi in the can, the same as usual to achieve 25% sag. I had 175psi in the bladder which is a few psi greater than my body weight but a few less than my geared weight. I can't feel the detents in the rebound knob but I believe I'm @ 4-5 clicks from full open. The end results seem to be as suspected. Everything I ran over was mush. The rear tracked the ground well and was definitely moving through the travel easier. I used maybe 5-8mm more travel than I usually do yet still had 8-10mm left over after the hour and half. Some of the extra movement I'm sure is related to changing the oil out to Red Line 2.5W Extra Light, while the other could be the bearings in the lower shock eye. I really need more time and better trail conditions, or maybe a Shockwiz to back my opinion up. In the end yesterday, I was well pleased with the outcome. The rear felt more compliant and playful, exactly my goal.


Cool! Can you remind us what kind of bike you're riding and how many spacers in each chamber? I took mine out for its first park day and it did pretty well, probably could've used a little more air in the can but it kept up pretty good.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Kaparzo said:


> Cool! Can you remind us what kind of bike you're riding and how many spacers in each chamber? I took mine out for its first park day and it did pretty well, probably could've used a little more air in the can but it kept up pretty good.


I'm on a 2015 Bronson with only one spacer on the positive side. During my ride, noting the amount of travel used, I thought there's a good chance a second spacer on the positive side might be needed. Probably what I need even more is a Shockwiz to validate my tune.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Put the shockwiz on the topaz today. Everything actually looks pretty good.
> Suggested more low speed compression which I don't think you can adjust?
> It sometimes suggested another spacer depending on the trails. I've always thought it needed another spacer so will do as it says.
> 
> ...


Joel,
Maybe adding a bit of extra pressure to the bladder will make up some of the low speed compression you need.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

Tuning update!

I had been continuing to fuss with the Topaz on my Warden Carbon over the last week or two of riding, and was still having issues with overall shock support. I was running into the uber-progressive end stroke of the Warden all too often after blowing through the initial/mid-portion of the travel. This was all while riding less than recommended sag. 

I had a call yesterday with Bryson, and after hearing my issues, he recommended running 2 spacers in positive, 1 in negative, and bumping bladder pressure up to 200. This, he said, would firm up initial travel a bit, and the bump in bladder pressure would add some resistance across the full range of travel. Going to try this tune out and see how it goes!


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

What's the damper shaft diameter on these things? I need to have a travel reduction spacer made, and I'm trying to get it before my shock arrives. I found no info regarding this on their website, nor did they reply my email.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Toni L said:


> What's the damper shaft diameter on these things? I need to have a travel reduction spacer made, and I'm trying to get it before my shock arrives. I found no info regarding this on their website, nor did they reply my email.


Give them a call today and I'm sure they'll gladly give you that dimension. If I would have known I could have mic'ed mine last week when I changed the oil. At an educated guess I'd say 10mm. But know I'm old, senile, and forgetful.


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

10mm was correct, at least for a 210x55mm shock


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Toni L said:


> 10mm was correct, at least for a 210x55mm shock


I bet it's the same across the board as it would cut down on manufacturing costs. Mine is the 200mmx57mm version.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Still trying to get my topaz and diamond to be plush.
Both have good small bump sensitivity although I would like more, but then it gets harsher in the mid stroke and I haven't come close bottom out yet.
On the topaz I'm getting about 3/4 of the travel. Granted I'm not doing any jumps yet but some small 1 to 2 ft drops and basic trail riding. I'm at the recommended base settings for my weight at 190 geared up. 200 in the can and bladder. I lowered the bladder to 190 and that helped a little but would like it more plush for my old bones... lol
I want to get small bump front and rear with some support in the mid but more plush there as well and then ramp up at the end to prevent harsh bottom out.
Once set that way I'll just use the (climb switch)..? To firm things up when I need more pedaling platform then open the switch to be more active on the trail...


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I was on the phone with Ronnie at DVO here recently and he told me if I wanted a more plush active ride to set the bladder to 170-175 even though we discussed my geared weight being closer to 180. My take is the lower the bladder, the less resistance the shock has to move against which makes it more plush and active. I'd suggest trying less bladder and more air can pressure to get the amount of sag you desire.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks I'll try it and see what happens..!!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> I bet it's the same across the board as it would cut down on manufacturing costs. Mine is the 200mmx57mm version.


Fyi, the 200x50 is a 200x57 with the 7mm reducer shim installed.

I may long shock my Tallboy ltc if I can make or get a 3-5mm shim.


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

fxr man said:


> Still trying to get my topaz and diamond to be plush.
> Both have good small bump sensitivity although I would like more, but then it gets harsher in the mid stroke and I haven't come close bottom out yet.
> On the topaz I'm getting about 3/4 of the travel. Granted I'm not doing any jumps yet but some small 1 to 2 ft drops and basic trail riding. I'm at the recommended base settings for my weight at 190 geared up. 200 in the can and bladder. I lowered the bladder to 190 and that helped a little but would like it more plush for my old bones... lol
> I want to get small bump front and rear with some support in the mid but more plush there as well and then ramp up at the end to prevent harsh bottom out.
> Once set that way I'll just use the (climb switch)..? To firm things up when I need more pedaling platform then open the switch to be more active on the trail...


Think of the spring setup like this:

- set the pressure to get the small bump (initial stroke) and sag were you want it. You can use bands to reduce the negative vol, but I wouldn't mess with that unless your frame has a weird leverage curve with alot of regression in the first 1/4 of travel because it can introduce harshness off the top

- mid support is affected by both pressure and volume (bands in the positive chamber) this is a balancing act once you get to the point of fine tuning. Mid support can be a double edge sword because adding it will also make medium sized bumps more harsh. Keep in mind that "support" can come from damping or spring, and to a certain extent they are interchangable. But, it's always best to get as much support as possible from the spring.

-bottom support is vol and bladder pressure, but these both also affect mid. bladder does affect the whole stroke, but it's much smaller in the first 2/3's of travel.

I don't know how much travel you are working with, but only using 3/4 of the travel isn't necessarily a bad thing if you aren't hitting bigger features. A 2' drop can generate some decent force, but unless it has a harsh transition it's probably not a good feature for judging bottom support.

Remember, recommendations based on rider weight are just rough starting points. Your body type, leverage curve, actual weight distribution on the bike, and personal preference will greatly dictate how much your setup varies from the recommendations. Get your sag in the ballpark and tune from there. Don't worry about the recommendations.

All that being said, make sure you don't have any vol reduction in the positive or negative chambers, and start lowering your bladder. As it is lowered, you might have to add small amounts of main pressure to maintain initial/mid rate.

Something I see alot of guys miss is that rebound action has a huge effect on small bump and perceived harshness on square edge that happens on the backside of the bump. If the lsr/msr is too slow, or too fast, it will introduce harshness that is easily blamed on lsc or spring wrongly.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks for the input. I'll try to use your advice the best I can to see if I can improve my ride quality. 
Loving this new bike but want to get the suspension dialed in and not being too suspension savy I'm finding it kinda hard to get it just right.
After I get the topaz feeling good I'll need to start on the diamond.


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## andrean (May 27, 2010)

I recently got a DVO Topaz for my V2 Juliana Roubion (same as SC Bronson) and thought it would be helpful for other light-weight riders (I'm 140lbs) to know the best set-up I've found, since I wasn't able to find this info on this thread or elsewhere. And literally, I've spent hours and hours lapping the same fast, rocky section of trail - making every adjustment mathematically possible to get the best shock feel I can. 

When I first got it, I had contacted Ronnie at DVO about my initial struggles to make it feel good. He had me send it back for internal adjustments to the rebound and compression based on my weight. (And yes, they are AMAZING w customer service.) After getting it back, I've found that the best ride (smooth yet lively and allows you to drive with your feet) with VPP is with the can pumped to 150lbs, the bladder pumped to 165lbs, two spacers in the negative chamber, and 4 clicks of rebound. I AM using all of the travel, although I don't feel any harsh bottom out - but haven't totally cased anything with it, YET. That said, I'll likely put in a spacer in the positive side as well for some insurance. It rides real nice right now, is more lively than the Monarch RT3 M/M I previously had on it (plush but no playfullness, a dull ride although M/M tune is too high for me), also better than the DB Inline I had on it prior to that (felt similar to Monarch), and leaps and bounds better than the complete garbage Fox Float EVOL Performance that came stock on it (although I have the Float EVOL Factory "Roxy Tune" on my Mojo3 and it's awesome, so it could be that something was wrong with the EVOL Performance). I'll admit that I am a manic tinkerer for suspension perfection - but when nothing is made for your weight range, you kinda have to be. Anyhow, there is one shortcoming I've found with the Topaz: I wish the climb mode was firmer. The climb mode on the RS and Fox are awesome and make pedaling up so easy, while the Topaz gives more bob with a bit of a low-riding sluggish feel. It's not a deal-braker, especially since this is my "big-bike", but noticeable. All my climbs at home are up steep fire roads, so in other cases I may not notice so much. Fourth shock's a charm


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> I pressed a RWC needle bearing into the bottom eye on my Topaz this afternoon. Maybe between the Red Line oil change yesterday and the bearing today, my shock will move a bit more freely.


I am tempted to try this as well. However does it make a difference on the bike? Clearly its better in a vice and when moving the swingarm by hand (all the videos I can find). However what I would like to see is a comparison of the rear wheel lifted and dropped with a bushing vs RWC Needle bearing.

On my old FS with a coil shock the rear wheel would 'plop' down and use some travel. When I put an air shock it would bounce with no travel used. Same mounting hardware so that wasn't the difference. Point is, that is a quick way to check for how 'plush' suspension is and sensitive to small bumps.

I did read one person say he has to increase compression after the RWC bearing. However I'd like to get more feedback from people who made the change. Did they need to adjust compression? Were they getting more travel? Did it make for better small bump compliance?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

*Shockwiz Testing - SC Bronson Topaz Tested*

I've been off my bike for a month but while I couldn't ride I was busy tweaking the Topaz based on my feel for suspension setup. I posted a few weeks ago about changing the oil to a lower viscosity Red Line 2.5W Extra Light as my feel said the damping was a bit too much. This morning I finally got around to trying out the Shockwiz I bought a week or so ago. I scored 92% with 100% confidence on my first test run. Not too shabby in my opinion if you consider the setup was totally based on what I thought felt right. The Shockwiz also confirmed that I was on the right track. Everything was in the green with the exception of high/low speed compression and bottom out resistance. All three suggested that I need to soften them. I currently weigh in around 180 pounds with gear and riding a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson v1 suspension. I had one tuning band on the positive side, 200psi in the main air can and 175psi in the bladder. I've dropped the bladder pressure down to 170psi in hope that it will equate to the 1-2 clicks of compression adjustment recommended. I would think too if my compression is lightened up to the Shockwiz' liking that the bottom out resistance will have been made softer too due to the compression softening. Maybe I'll be able to test out the change tomorrow.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

My understanding and I've confirmed with the lbs, you don't need to make it softer because it's on that side of the scale. You need to make it firmer to move it to the right of the scale. I had the same confusion with mine at first..

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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

So you'd need more bottom out resistance, and make the LSC and HSC firmer. 

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> My understanding and I've confirmed with the lbs, you don't need to make it softer because it's on that side of the scale. You need to make it firmer to move it to the right of the scale. I had the same confusion with mine at first..
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I've read right the opposite so somebody is wrong.

Shockwiz' site has this to say about the subject: 
"Baseline Air Pressure

Symptom: ShockWiz continually Suggests 'Remove Air'. I have done so and now have and the pressure is now so low that my suspension feels un-rideable.

Cause: You suspension is not compatible with ShockWiz. If your suspension's air spring does not have a positive chamber that consists of a single volume, this symptom can occur. Contact suspension manufacturer or take to a profession bike mechanic to verify."

The rider followed the Shockwiz' advice and removed air to a point he knew it was too low. They responded with an answer and the answer was not that they should have been adding air. Here's the link: https://shockwiz.zendesk.com/hc/en-...imit-and-ShockWiz-is-still-Suggesting-change-

Furthermore this very question was covered on the Shockwiz forum here at MTBR. They too agreed, you do exactly what is being recommended. See post numbers 591, 593 & 594:

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/shockwiz-1025434-6.html#post13235199

So, after following the LBS advice did your suspension dial in without any fuss?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Yeah it seemed to align, for example on mine the air spring ramp was on the remove spacers side. But adding spacers shifted it to the right into the green. 

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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Now I'm even more confused though.. 

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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Though if you look at the screen that tells you what is going wrong it more aligns with what I've found. For example mine had rebound on the speed up side but the details said it was Pogo sticking. Which with mean rebound needs to slow down.. 

That's just my experience though. No responsibility taken haha. 

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Yeah it seemed to align, for example on mine the air spring ramp was on the remove spacers side. But adding spacers shifted it to the right into the green.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


By chance did you end up with a lower baseline air pressure after adding spacers? Or maybe even a slightly lower compression ratio?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

It'll be really interesting to see what you find though. Mine wasn't the best test case as like you I ended up with a 90+ score on my first go with the shockwiz so it was really splitting hairs making any adjustments.. 

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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Fark maybe I just said that all wrong. Looked at my old post and it was on the 'add spacer' side of the scale. Which did mean add spacers. Haha sorry!

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

*Shockwiz Testing 2 - SC Bronson Topaz Tested*

Yesterday I put my personal feel for suspension tuning up against the Shockwiz and came out with a score of 92 with enough data collected to meet a 100% confidence. Yesterday's run had the Shockwiz suggesting that my high and low speed compression needed to be a tad bit softer as well as my bottom out resistance. Since the Shockwiz agreed with my gut instinct that the compression was a bit too firm I dropped the bladder down 5psi to 170psi this morning and went over the very same trails again. Shockwiz reported back with 100% confidence a new and improved tune score of 96. The Shockwiz suggestions improved too but my low speed compression still claims it needs to be a tad bit softer. I'm afraid trying to tweak that last tiny bit out might open a can of worms but I'm willing to find out.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I am about the same weight and ride a Tallboy LTc which is also VPP2. Your settings are probably a good place to start:
-one tuning band on the positive side
-200psi in the main air can
-170psi in the bladder. 
-Red Line Light oil

Is that right?

How do you like the roller bearing? I may try it but hear mixed reviews. Some say they are amazing, others say they feel nice but get loose.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

You indeed have my settings down pat, but know I'm on the older VPP V1. Not sure how much difference that will make and I can't elaborate on the needle bearings. I sort of wish I could have tested the rear shock under the same settings with the original bushing then the bearings. Coming from a background full of mechanical equipment, I'd have to say the bearings allow the shock to move more freely. I've also gained a few pounds and probably weigh 180-182lbs geared up right now.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Have about four months on my Topaz and finally feel like I have it almost licked, for my weight, bike, riding style, terrain anyway. Had a tough time with it initially. Not much of a suspension guru and it is a different beast from the stock EVOL DPS that came on my 5010 v2. That said, it's done exactly what I want it to, which is smooth out fast and chunky terrain. Have to say only my skills and overall capacity of the bike are what is holding it back at current.

Me: ~170 lbs, SC 5010 v2, choppy New England singletrack, some park
Main/bladder: 192/180
3 POS/1 NEG

Still doesn't have as much pop as the EVOL DPS, but the one NEG band helped considerably. Might try another negative band just for giggles, but I like it where it is as well. Just wish I could get it to stick to the ground without bouncing during a parking lot test, but with that said, it tracks quite well on trail. The third POS band really helped smooth out bigger drops and high speed smashing/hang ups.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

What grease shi If I use? They use a semi opaque white grease. I have white with teflon, EPX, and marine grease.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> What grease shi If I use? They use a semi opaque white grease. I have white with teflon, EPX, and marine grease.


The best suspension grease is called Slickoleum that's also rebadged and called Slick Honey.

Slickoleum Grease


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> The best suspension grease is called Slickoleum that's also rebadged and called Slick Honey.
> 
> Slickoleum Grease


RWC has Rock N Roll for a decent price. Seems to get good reviews can slickoleom. Cheaper too, and I need some cart fillers for free shipping if I go with a roller bearing. Still on the fence.


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## mountainbikenaked (Apr 6, 2007)

I was about to pull the trigger on a Fox X2, but after reading all the reviews here and the great price JensonUSA had on the Topaz yesterday, I pulled the trigger. Before ordering I called DVO and spoke with them regarding the set-up for a SC Hightower. I was amazed at how helpful they were. I'll follow-up after I get it delivered, installed and dialed in. I'm sure it will a great upgrade over the stock monarch without breaking the bank.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

mountainbikenaked said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on a Fox X2, but after reading all the reviews here and the great price JensonUSA had on the Topaz yesterday, I pulled the trigger. Before ordering I called DVO and spoke with them regarding the set-up for a SC Hightower. I was amazed at how helpful they were. I'll follow-up after I get it delivered, installed and dialed in. I'm sure it will a great upgrade over the stock monarch without breaking the bank.


I don't think you'll be disappointed. Their tech support is as you found, super helpful and friendly. I think the greatest thing is all the user available options for tuning, from adding or removing tuning bands, oil viscosity changes, and even shim stack adjustment. I doubt you'll find another major manufacturer who will support you with some of those, let alone accept a phone call and talk you through the process.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

mountainbikenaked said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on a Fox X2, but after reading all the reviews here and the great price JensonUSA had on the Topaz yesterday, I pulled the trigger. Before ordering I called DVO and spoke with them regarding the set-up for a SC Hightower. I was amazed at how helpful they were. I'll follow-up after I get it delivered, installed and dialed in. I'm sure it will a great upgrade over the stock monarch without breaking the bank.


What was the price they had?

What did they say about setup? I have a Tallboy LTc so pretty similar (VPP2 not VPP3 however).


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I do know this about DVO, a lot of their employees ride Santa Cruz bikes so they have a fair amount of experience setting up SC suspensions. But with our trail systems, bike models, and riding styles being different, it's not always apples to apples. I don't ride monster drops because they don't exist in my area. So setting my suspension up like Bryson Jr. isn't going to give me the ride I want or need. But the good thing is they can guide you in the right direction.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

So my topaz has started losing around 50psi in a 30min ride.. I've got a seal kit but bit daunting fitting it.. is there any ideas what seal it could be? Something easy without pulling it to pieces. 

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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Make sure your schrader valve is tight. I had to replace mine because I blew out the tiny o-ring on it.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

I think the o-ring is stuffed on the valve.. wonder if anything else would fit in its place. Want to get bike back riding. 

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> I think the o-ring is stuffed on the valve.. wonder if anything else would fit in its place. Want to get bike back riding.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Just swing by any auto parts store or Walmart even and buy a few new valve cores. Under $2 for a 4 pack.

http://m.autozone.com/tire-repair-a...stem-core?searchText=Valve+core&make=Chrysler


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks! Grabbed some. 

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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

IRBent said:


> Just swing by any auto parts store or Walmart even and buy a few new valve cores. Under $2 for a 4 pack.
> 
> Best Tire Valve Stem Core Parts for Cars, Trucks & SUVs


That's exactly what I got at AutoZone. Lol. I ruined mine by compressing the shock with a pump attached.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

661lee said:


> That's exactly what I got at AutoZone. Lol. I ruined mine by compressing the shock with a pump attached.


I always do that! Why does that damage it?

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## dwojo (Jun 11, 2017)

Hi Finalgear & rest of the forum,
Getting my new Zerode Taniwha frame delivered this week and am hoping to get a baseline tune for my Topaz (216/63).
I am 195 pounds geared up. Main riding is hardpack with rocks and roots.Based on the manual and a bit of guesswork I am thinking my start point is 215 PSI in the can and 185 PSI in the bladder but have no idea on spacers. 
Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.
🤘


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Came here to post almost exactly the same story as IRBent. I got ahold of a Shockwiz and right off the bat it said my HS/LS Compression was too firm. I dropped the bladder pressure from the recommended 190psi down to 180psi and the shockwiz and my butt-o-meter both agreed it was an improvement. 

@dwojo - I run 240psi in the can, 180 in the bladder, no spacers (spacers are frame-dependent). 185lbs.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Porch said:


> Came here to post almost exactly the same story as IRBent. I got ahold of a Shockwiz and right off the bat it said my HS/LS Compression was too firm. I dropped the bladder pressure from the recommended 190psi down to 180psi and the shockwiz and my butt-o-meter both agreed it was an improvement.
> 
> @dwojo - I run 240psi in the can, 180 in the bladder, no spacers (spacers are frame-dependent). 185lbs.


Porch, I can add a bit to that. I recently bought a Shockwiz and in attempt to soften the LSC I've gone from a tune score of 96 to hell in a hand basket with only a few psi change. I dropped the bladder to 168psi, down from 170 and also dropped 2psi out of the can. I rode the same test loop I had ran on my 3 previous rides and got a whopping score of 80. That kind of pissed me off. I've ordered some Red Line Like Water and will do one more test run back at the settings used to get the tune score of 96 then change the oil to the lighter stuff and see what happens.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> I recently bought a Shockwiz and in attempt to soften the LSC I've gone from a tune score of 96 to hell in a hand basket with only a few psi change. I dropped the bladder to 168psi, down from 170 and also dropped 2psi out of the can. I rode the same test loop I had ran on my 3 previous rides and got a whopping score of 80.


Did it feel much different or worse? That seems like an such a minor change. Any other differences like ambient temperature?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Did it feel much different or worse? That seems like an such a minor change. Any other differences like ambient temperature?


Exactly, minor change with major result difference. No, the ride didn't feel much different. At the slightly higher pressures the rear did seem to have a bit more pop especially when loading on the face of a bigger jump. I could feel the rear tire pop off the lip at the top. I didn't feel any of that after dropping things down a tad. Ambient temps indeed were different. All previous rides were either mid morning or late afternoon where temps were in the 90's. This last ride though probably had temps in the 80's. As outside temps climb, pressure increases and that coupled with suspension building heat during action can indeed cause the pressures to climb inside the shock. I was seeing a 3-4psi increase from start to finish on the Shockwiz. During this last ride it only climbed 2psi. But still, a few psi shouldn't make things go from good to really bad. More testing to follow. Back to my previous setup first and see if I can repeat the two scores of 96. Then I'll change out the oil and start from scratch.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

How much do you weigh, IRBent? And what's the factory oil weight? 

With 180psi in the bladder I'm at a tuning score of 96, with the LSC being the only thing it's unhappy about. TBH I'm happy enough where I'm at, for now.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm getting my Topaz ready to install and I noticed the Igus bushings are very tight. So tight I can't get the reducers in place by hand. I would have to press them in with a vice or bearing press. Once in they would not spin or would be very high friction causing binding in the rear travel.

Definitely not a hand operation like this:


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Porch said:


> How much do you weigh, IRBent? And what's the factory oil weight?
> 
> With 180psi in the bladder I'm at a tuning score of 96, with the LSC being the only thing it's unhappy about. TBH I'm happy enough where I'm at, for now.


Sadly I've gained @ 10lbs lately and weigh in @ 180 with gear right now. My trails are pretty tame outside some major rock gardens that ruined my Highroller II on the rear this weekend. How much do you weigh geared up? Oh, I was very happy with my tuning score and the feel of the bike when I scored 96. As for weight of the oil, weight doesn't tell the true story as one company's 2.5W might be another company's 5W. Per DVO they use Pro Circuit PC-02 which I believe I found to be rebadged Shows SS-25, both are sold as 2.5W oil. Their viscosity ranges from 12.5 down to 3.9 depending on temp. The Red Line 2.5W I swapped to ranges from 9.8 down to 4. The Red Line Like Water is 5.5 down to 2.3.

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid


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## bansaiman (Feb 7, 2014)

Referring to midstroke Support. There is a article from a suspension some fellaws who Do Not get their shock to work how they like.
It is based on theory of speed of damping.
A more open rebound also affects the midstroke as it pushes more against the force of being compressed.thus use a bit more sag and leave rebound more open.than perhaps play a bit with reservoir pressure again.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

bansaiman said:


> Referring to midstroke Support. There is a article from a suspension some fellaws who Do Not get their shock to work how they like.
> It is based on theory of speed of damping.
> A more open rebound also affects the midstroke as it pushes more against the force of being compressed.thus use a bit more sag and leave rebound more open.than perhaps play a bit with reservoir pressure again.


Do you have a link to this article you mention?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Put the shockwiz on the topaz today. Everything actually looks pretty good.
> Suggested more low speed compression which I don't think you can adjust?
> It sometimes suggested another spacer depending on the trails. I've always thought it needed another spacer so will do as it says.
> 
> ...


Joel,
Have you done any further testing using the Shockwiz and if so, what are settings you running now? All the testing I've done consistently says the LSC needs to be softer, that's even after changing the oil from stock to the lighter Red Line Extra Light, then dropping it even further down to Red Line Like Water. I got so aggravated with it this weekend that I went radical, changing my tune from one positive spacer and 200psi to 3 positive, 2 negative and only 185psi. The tune score and suggestions stayed consistent as if I did nothing. But for whatever reason that radical tune seemed so much more plush and compliant through the rock gardens I've been testing on. Not only did it feel better, but Strava agreed as I broke my PRs on the rock garden section and the flow trail with big jumps. That's just a one off run and I won't let it go to my head though. I'll make several more runs through my test loop to see if I can repeat the feeling and improve tune scores.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey mate, I had to give the loaner shockwiz back so haven't done anymore tuning.
Interesting your results there! I've heard a few others chucking some more negative spacers in and having good results. Even though I think when I talked to DVO support they said that wasn't needed.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Hey mate, I had to give the loaner shockwiz back so haven't done anymore tuning.
> Interesting your results there! I've heard a few others chucking some more negative spacers in and having good results. Even though I think when I talked to DVO support they said that wasn't needed.


I used logic, possibly fuzzy logic, when I decided to add the negative spacers. I thought by adding more positive spacers I could run lower initial pressure in the air can. I knew too that lower air pressure would cause the bike to sag more. Adding negative spacers reduces that initial sag by moving things further into the curve. I don't know that what I've done is for the best but so far the outcome is compelling. The biggest reason I bought the Topaz was because my stock shock couldn't handle the rough stuff. If I lowered the pressure enough to smooth out the rough, it would bottom out on anything of size. The Topaz eats rocks for breakfast and I've yet to bottom it out.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Yeah I feel like mine is getting a bit too firm to stop bottom out.. May be I should look at more neg spacers.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Yeah I feel like mine is getting a bit too firm to stop bottom out.. May be I should look at more neg spacers.


I've done everything possible to soften the HSC/LSC compression EXCEPT adjust the shim stack. I'm not above doing that but it's hard to argue breaking Strava records even if the Shockwiz claims my tune score is lower than it was initially, and the suspension seems more compliant and planted.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

IRBent said:


> I've done everything possible to soften the HSC/LSC compression EXCEPT adjust the shim stack. I'm not above doing that but it's hard to argue breaking Strava records even if the Shockwiz claims my tune score is lower than it was initially, and the suspension seems more compliant and planted.


If the Shockwiz is recommending HSC / LSC increases, you may be in a situation where you want to ask DVO to make some shim stack tweaks when you send it in for service. The adjustments with negative and positive volume spacers are position sensitive, whereas LSC and HSC are speed sensitive adjustments. I'm not sure how Shockwiz works entirely so it may not be able to decouple these different types of forces.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zhendo said:


> If the Shockwiz is recommending HSC / LSC increases, you may be in a situation where you want to ask DVO to make some shim stack tweaks when you send it in for service. The adjustments with negative and positive volume spacers are position sensitive, whereas LSC and HSC are speed sensitive adjustments. I'm not sure how Shockwiz works entirely so it may not be able to decouple these different types of forces.


Early on when I was talking with Ronnie at DVO he told me to call him when I went inside the shock to change the oil and he'd talk me through shim stack adjustment. No need to send it in. DVO's tech support is bar none.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

I promise I will eventually go through this thread, but let me ask you first. 
Is Topaz a good option for a light rider?
140lbs, considering it for SC Hightower

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> I promise I will eventually go through this thread, but let me ask you first.
> Is Topaz a good option for a light rider?
> 140lbs, considering it for SC Hightower


Much of the testing was done by a guy riding a Hightower. He was probably more than 140lbs however. Its definitely not like the Pike RC that is set up for 180lb+ riders just so they can get a better lock out like feature. If anything I'd say the Topaz is biased towards lighter riders. I know a guy who rides DVO and raves about them. Heck, he has a DVO tattoo. He is probably not much more than 140.

Call them up and ask. I think you'll be pleased by how helpful they are.


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## mountainbikenaked (Apr 6, 2007)

Doug said:


> What was the price they had?
> 
> What did they say about setup? I have a Tallboy LTc so pretty similar (VPP2 not VPP3 however).


I am about 170 and ride aggressively. They said the pressure in the manual should be a good starting point and recommended 2 spacers on the positive side.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I'm on a 2105 Bronson and bounce between 155-170lbs without gear. I've been tuning the Topaz by a Shockwiz for a few weeks now and think I'm prettying happy with today's results. At first my tunes were based off a single tuning band on the positive side and higher pressures to maintain sag. The Shockwiz kept asking for softer LSC and my overall tune score was 96, but my tune score over rocky terrain never got any better than 88. My goal was to maintain a high score overall and still score in the 90's on the downhill rocky stuff. I added tuning bands and lowered the pressure and started from scratch. My final settings had me with 3 positive bands, 2 negative bands and an air pressure @ 183psi per the Shockwiz. The bladder was set at 170psi. I netted a tune score of 92 on the ugly rocky stuff and improved that score to 96 after taking on the big jumps. I did not beat my PRs I set a day or two ago though but I'm going to chalk that up to heat and being lazy. I know I didn't push as hard.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

After a visit to DVO to get some tuning done to add some sensitivity to both my diamond and topaz, Ronnie added some oil to the top of the fork so it would ride higher in its travel while allowing me to use less air in the air spring and opened the the HSC to about 5 clicks from full open, i ended up going from 127 to 105 psi and now i finally have an active fork. For the topaz he changed out the oil to what he called his tuning oil and even though its the same viscosity 2.5 weight as the stock oil they send the shock with he said it was lighter and would help alot. He also performed a rebound mod to speed up the rebound from stock. This also helped a lot and the topaz is now plush as well. Overall very happy with these changes and without a shockwiz i have to go by seat of the pants feel....


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fxr man said:


> For the topaz he changed out the oil to what he called his tuning oil and even though its the same viscosity 2.5 weight as the stock oil they send the shock with he said it was lighter and would help alot. He also performed a rebound mod to speed the rebound from stock. This also helped a lot and the topaz is now plush as well. Overall very happy with these changes and without a shockwiz i have to go by seat of the pants feel....


Wow, sounds like I've been on the right path all on my own. I changed the oil in my Topaz to a lower viscosity 2.5W maybe a month or so ago. Then I went a step further after the Shockwiz still begged for softer compression tuning. I went with Red Line Like Water suspension oil and my Topaz is very active now. I hope you start seeing excellent results on the Shockwiz. I'd love to know the results too once you get it ironed out. I too may need to tweak my shim stacks one day. How much do you weigh geared up and what bike are you riding?


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

I stated he used 2.5 weight but i'm not completely sure that was the case but he did say it was different than stock and lighter. He said one was for shipping out stock units and the one he used was for tuning. Maybe I'll call him today and ask exactly what he used so I don't give the wrong information but I think that is what he said. Again I'll call and find out and report back. I don't have shockwiz so no way for me to know how these adjustments would rate but overall my bike feels a lot better and more plush which is what I was after.
I ride a new foes trail mixer at 150 mm travel front and rear, weigh 180 lbs and not a very aggressive rider as i mostly ride CC and trail with some commuting thrown in.
Wanted to have a plush suspension front and back and then just use the (climb switch..?) to give pedal platform for roads or climbs.
I do think your headed in the right direction though.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fxr man said:


> I stated he used 2.5 weight but i'm not completely sure that was the case but he did say it was different than stock and lighter. He said one was for shipping out stock units and the one he used was for tuning. Maybe I'll call him today and ask exactly what he used so I don't give the wrong information but I think that is what he said. Again I'll call and find out and report back. I don't have shockwiz so no way for me to know how these adjustments would rate but overall my bike feels a lot better and more plush which is what I was after.


Sounds very familiar. My talks and emails with Ronnie are very much the same. He told me that he likes Driven SHX shock oil but they don't tell you the viscosities of their products. Ronnie said he thought it was rebadge Red Line oil. He's the one who suggested I try using Red Line Like Water which has an even lower viscosity than their 2.5W oil. If they do tell you what they used I like to know. I weigh in about the same as you but ride a little more aggressively than you it sounds like.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Sounds very familiar. My talks and emails with Ronnie are very much the same. He told me that he likes Driven SHX shock oil but they don't tell you the viscosities of their products. Ronnie said he thought it was rebadge Red Line oil. He's the one who suggested I try using Red Line Like Water which has an even lower viscosity than their 2.5W oil. If they do tell you what they used I like to know. I weigh in about the same as you but ride a little more aggressively than you it sounds like.


i just added a second band to the NEG on my 5010. haven't really ridden it in but hoping it's the last nail in the coffin to get it set and forget.

do you know if VPP bikes are designed with a less linear leverage curve and if adding negative bands will help to match the shock's typical curve to that of the frame's design?

also, does anyone else have issues with the topaz losing air ride-to-ride? i've had a hard time getting it dialed and i'm starting to think it's because it has been losing air and not staying consistent.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

Where can I order rebuilt kit & service kit for topaz online?


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

I'd call DVO - I'm sure they can hook you up.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

Spoke to Ronnie and he confirmed it was the Driven SHX 2.5 wt. oil. Also told me they are coming out with there own oil later this year as I'll want to purchase some for future maintenance..!!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fxr man said:


> Spoke to Ronnie and he confirmed it was the Driven SHX 2.5 wt. oil. Also told me they are coming out with there own oil later this year as I'll want to purchase some for future maintenance..!!


I figured. He told me over the phone that the Driven SHX was the same as the Red Line Extra Light 2.5W. I put it in my Topaz for a while but the Shockwiz still wanted softer damping. That's when I dropped down to Red Line's lightest, Like Water. Best Shockwiz scores yet.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

They use Driven STX in the Diamond and the Topaz.

The instructions online are pretty shitty, just speccing a 2.5wt oil or a 10wt of unspecified brand or CST is poor. Fox are IMHO the pinnacle now, RS are good but don't break down shim stacks and then we have the rest.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Rick Draper said:


> just speccing a 2.5wt oil or a 10wt of unspecified brand or CST is poor. Fox are IMHO the pinnacle now, RS are good but don't break down shim stacks and then we have the rest.


I sorta disagree. Spec'ing a brand/weight oil doesn't tell you anything especially if it's a proprietary brand that they don't give specs on except weight. Weight says nothing about an oil in comparison to it's viscosity. One brand's 5W could be equal to another brand's 10W when you compare CST. Manufacturer's like Fox rebadge brand X with their own Fox name, call it a certain weight, then tout you need to use their over priced oil. I'd prefer them to say use any brand you choose and for the shock to perform as designed you need to use an oil with a certain viscosity range. But that's just honest and could take profits away when they can't say use OUR brand. Even FXR Man just eluded to DVO opting into this same game as they plan on coming out with their own brand. No, they don't make oil, they all make suspension components. So they're all using an oil from somebody else.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

I've noticed my topaz the first 20% of travel if you cycle through it has that kinda noise sounds like air in the oil. 
Anything to worry about?
Cheers

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> I've noticed my topaz the first 20% of travel if you cycle through it has that kinda noise sounds like air in the oil.
> Anything to worry about?
> Cheers
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


You could check that out pretty easily. You'd have to remove the shock, chuck it up in a soft jaw vice with the tiny bleed port up. Connect a Shimano brake bleed cup or syringe with 15-20ml of 2.5W oil and cycle the shock. If air bubbles escape, yep, you had air inside.


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## Steezus (Jul 25, 2007)

IRBent said:


> I sorta disagree. Spec'ing a brand/weight oil doesn't tell you anything especially if it's a proprietary brand that they don't give specs on except weight. Weight says nothing about an oil in comparison to it's viscosity. One brand's 5W could be equal to another brand's 10W when you compare CST. Manufacturer's like Fox rebadge brand X with their own Fox name, call it a certain weight, then tout you need to use their over priced oil. I'd prefer them to say use any brand you choose and for the shock to perform as designed you need to use an oil with a certain viscosity range. But that's just honest and could take profits away when they can't say use OUR brand. Even FXR Man just eluded to DVO opting into this same game as they plan on coming out with their own brand. No, they don't make oil, they all make suspension components. So they're all using an oil from somebody else.


I have no idea how much this type of non-name brand oil costs? Is $12 really expensive for a qt that I use to service two forks and not even half way through 3 years after I bought it?

I also have read one of the suspension guys at Vorsprung recommended sticking with the Fox stuff because there is no real knock off replacement that is actually the same stuff.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

IRBent said:


> You could check that out pretty easily. You'd have to remove the shock, chuck it up in a soft jaw vice with the tiny bleed port up. Connect a Shimano brake bleed cup or syringe with 15-20ml of 2.5W oil and cycle the shock. If air bubbles escape, yep, you had air inside.


Do you need specific oil or long as it's 2.5?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Do you need specific oil or long as it's 2.5?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Let's just say this. Look up the viscosity of Showa SS-25 in the link supplied below. It's my understanding that is the oil in the Topaz from the factory. However as posted a few posts back, DVO uses a different 2.5W oil when they "tune" your suspension. Basically they use a lower viscosity 2.5W and yes, it makes a difference. They're currently using Driven SHX which Ronnie at DVO told me was rebadge Red Line Extra Light 2.5W. Each manufacturer's 2.5W has varying viscosities which will effect the tune. Lower numbers mean the oil is thinner or lighter. Lighter oil will liven up your shock, making it quicker.
Just look at the oils listed as 2.5W and notice the viscosity differences. I was running the Red Line 2.5W but my Shockwiz was begging for softer LSC and softer HSC. Dropping back to Red Line Like Water made a big difference without having to change out the shim stack.
http://mahonkin.com/~milktree/motorcycle/oil-weight-script/oil-weight.pl


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Reckon this would be suitable? Being in Australia a lot of the brands are different to all the US info. .
https://www.mxstore.com.au/p/Motul-...qYuGVyYTvYkc_rm_AsbuFVl73rsgwq7BoC1aQQAvD_BwE

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Reckon this would be suitable? Being in Australia a lot of the brands are different to all the US info. .
> https://www.mxstore.com.au/p/Motul-...qYuGVyYTvYkc_rm_AsbuFVl73rsgwq7BoC1aQQAvD_BwE
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


That oil is a bit more viscous than the factory oil. If you're heavier than most, over 200 lbs, it might do. I'm basing that weight estimate off my personal experience on my own weight. Note the technical data link below that lists the viscosity @ 15 whereas the stock oil is @ 12.5.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/...ine_208219-18-17-16_20_28GB_29.pdf?1492016151


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Reckon this would be suitable? Being in Australia a lot of the brands are different to all the US info. .
> https://www.mxstore.com.au/p/Motul-...qYuGVyYTvYkc_rm_AsbuFVl73rsgwq7BoC1aQQAvD_BwE
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Joel, check out Red Line's international distributor search below. I've also included links further down for Red Line 2.5W and their Like Water oils that might be to a company that you can buy from locally. The main office for Rocket Headquarters is in Huntingwood, NSW (Australia).

https://www.redlineoil.com/distributors_international.aspx

https://shop.rocketindustries.com.au/products/RED91112#.WX1USoTyupo

https://shop.rocketindustries.com.au/products/RED91102#.WX1UUYTyupo


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

fxr man said:


> After a visit to DVO to get some tuning done...


I'm fairly local, is this something they do for anyone or do you have some connection? Cost?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Joel, check out Red Line's international distributor search below. I've also included links further down for Red Line 2.5W and their Like Water oils that might be to a company that you can buy from locally. The main office for Rocket Headquarters is in Huntingwood, NSW (Australia).
> 
> https://www.redlineoil.com/distributors_international.aspx
> 
> ...


Thanks mate! I also read that rock shox 2.5w oil is around 7.5 viscosity. That'd be suitable hey?

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Thanks mate! I also read that rock shox 2.5w oil is around 7.5 viscosity. That'd be suitable hey?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I've seen contradictory data for the Rockshox oil and assume that's because since they don't make oil they tend to rebadge other brand oils that have varying viscosities. But overall, if you can't get Red Line or Golden Spectro 2.5W oil, Rockshox would be a good alternative. Here's another link to a lot of info about oil viscosity, what it means and a chart showing them in order of viscosity. Rockshox is just below those I've pointed out. Keep in mind the stock fluid is supposedly the Showa SS-25. So if you want a lighter oil you'd need to go with one listed above it.

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

I just called them to ask questions on how to get my diamond and topaz to be more sensitive(plush) and after talking to me about it he's said bring it in. So I made the 2 1/2 hr drive and he did both shock and fork for me. Said there would be cost for the oil but afterwards didn't even charge me for that... great guys.


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## carbine_275 (Nov 15, 2015)

Doug said:


> Fyi, the 200x50 is a 200x57 with the 7mm reducer shim installed.
> 
> I may long shock my Tallboy ltc if I can make or get a 3-5mm shim.


Any idea how easy it might be to pull the reducer shim from the Topaz to transform a 200x50 into a 200x57?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

carbine_275 said:


> Any idea how easy it might be to pull the reducer shim from the Topaz to transform a 200x50 into a 200x57?


The entire shock is user serviceable so I expect it would be easy. Give them a call me they will give you all the details. Super helpful folks.


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## Toni L (Jun 20, 2004)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Thanks mate! I also read that rock shox 2.5w oil is around 7.5 viscosity. That'd be suitable hey?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Dvo told me that RS/Maxima oil is the only oil you can't use with Topaz. Apparently some additives in the RS oil don't play well with the seals DVO uses. Soooo, don't use that.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Ahh bugger just purchased a bottle of RS 2.5

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> Wow, sounds like I've been on the right path all on my own. I changed the oil in my Topaz to a lower viscosity 2.5W maybe a month or so ago. Then I went a step further after the Shockwiz still begged for softer compression tuning. I went with Red Line Like Water suspension oil and my Topaz is very active now. I hope you start seeing excellent results on the Shockwiz. I'd love to know the results too once you get it ironed out. I too may need to tweak my shim stacks one day. How much do you weigh geared up and what bike are you riding?


Thanks for posting on these oil changes. I have a Topaz on an Ibis HD3, a frame that typically needs slightly less LSC and HSC than a 15 Bronson. I'm also a bit lighter than you also at 168lbs ready to ride but it sounds like we both ride fast on rough terrain. I have both the Redline "Like Water" and "2.5" and I'm going to do an oil change to lighten the LSC. How different was the "Like water" and "2.5" oil versus the stock oil? Would you suggest I try the Redline 2.5 first or just go all the way to the "like water"? Thanks for your help.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Thanks for posting on these oil changes. I have a Topaz on an Ibis HD3, a frame that typically needs slightly less LSC and HSC than a 15 Bronson. I'm also a bit lighter than you also at 168lbs ready to ride but it sounds like we both ride fast on rough terrain. I have both the Redline "Like Water" and "2.5" and I'm going to do an oil change to lighten the LSC. How different was the "Like water" and "2.5" oil versus the stock oil? Would you suggest I try the Redline 2.5 first or just go all the way to the "like water"? Thanks for your help.


I bought a Shockwiz after changing the oil from stock to Red Line 2.5W. While it felt like the suspension was moving faster I never tested the stock oil with the Shockwiz so it's hard to say or put a number on it. But the Shockwiz still screamed my LSC was to firm even with the 2.5W oil. I'd suggest starting out with the Like Water if you want the quickest shock. I also went with a more radical tune, 3 bands in the positive and 2 in the negative so I could run less can pressure. Before I was testing with only one band on the positive and getting good scores but the Shockwiz wants a really soft setup if using the Playful mode. I also found playful scored high on big drops and rough terrain. The same tune scored high if riding smooth trails and looked at the results in the Efficient mode. Best of both worlds maybe.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> I also found playful scored high on big drops and rough terrain. The same tune scored high if riding smooth trails and looked at the results in the Efficient mode.


Do you agree? I see people chasing a number with the Shock Wiz and wonder if it really does correlate to actual riding. I read in the Shock Wiz thread that some shocks just don't work well due to how they are designed.

Where did you get your shock fluid? I can't seem to find the Red Line stuff in many places or its 2x the MSRP.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Do you agree? I see people chasing a number with the Shock Wiz and wonder if it really does correlate to actual riding. I read in the Shock Wiz thread that some shocks just don't work well due to how they are designed.
> 
> Where did you get your shock fluid? I can't seem to find the Red Line stuff in many places or its 2x the MSRP.


Yes, some shocks have limited adjustment and may not work well with some suspension designs. Chasing perfect scores may be a challenge and despite maybe getting it, I doubt anybody gets 100 every ride and surely not if they're riding different terrain than what they tuned for. I'm happy to get my scores in the 90's under the same tune but looking at results from different trails and using different tune modes. High 90's on the ugly trails in Playful mode then 92 on CX type smooth trails while looking at results in the Efficient mode. As for Red Line oils, I found it at Amazon, both the 2.5W and the Like Water.

Red Line 91102 LikeWater Suspension Fluid - 16 oz, 1 Pack https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004BYK7NG/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_XmLqoVS7nrCJF


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> I bought a Shockwiz after changing the oil from stock to Red Line 2.5W. While it felt like the suspension was moving faster I never tested the stock oil with the Shockwiz so it's hard to say or put a number on it. But the Shockwiz still screamed my LSC was to firm even with the 2.5W oil. I'd suggest starting out with the Like Water if you want the quickest shock. I also went with a more radical tune, 3 bands in the positive and 2 in the negative so I could run less can pressure. Before I was testing with only one band on the positive and getting good scores but the Shockwiz wants a really soft setup if using the Playful mode. I also found playful scored high on big drops and rough terrain. The same tune scored high if riding smooth trails and looked at the results in the Efficient mode. Best of both worlds maybe.


Thanks for the info. I'll do an oil change this weekend and see how it goes.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Thanks for the info. I'll do an oil change this weekend and see how it goes.


When you get to the point of bleeding the air out of the bleed port, take your time and get it right. Slowly cycle the shock, tapping on it in between top and bottom of the cycle to help dislodge any trapped air bubbles. Rotate it too a time or so in the vice to move the bleed port from straight up to at an angle in case bubbles are trapped. Once you think you've got it with slow cycles, do a few quicker cycles. That's when I really saw a few extra bubbles turn loose, when I pushed the shock through its travel quickly.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> When you get to the point of bleeding the air out of the bleed port, take your time and get it right. Slowly cycle the shock, tapping on it in between top and bottom of the cycle to help dislodge any trapped air bubbles. Rotate it too a time or so in the vice to move the bleed port from straight up to at an angle in case bubbles are trapped. Once you think you've got it with slow cycles, do a few quicker cycles. That's when I really saw a few extra bubbles turn loose, when I pushed the shock through its travel quickly.


Yep, thanks for the tips. I've had to bleed the topaz before and it went well. I do it a bit differently than the instruction manual to speed things up a bit. I don't undo the inner shock body, just take the outer sleeve off. I empty the piggy back reservoir, then use the bleed port to purge oil right through the damper circuit until it overflows out the piggy back. It uses way more oil to do it this way but since there is sod all oil used in the first place, it doesnt really matter. Once I've put the bladder back in, cycled the shock multiple times and used a syringe to do the bleed, then I leave a full syringe connected to the bleed port and go away and do something else for about an hour, then come back and do a final bleed. It's amazing what final little bubbles collect while I'm away...


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, I planned on using a shimano funnel for the bleed. But reading the above, and being able to push the oil through sounds good. Where can I buy a syringe with the correct fitting for the topaz? Any suggestions?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Hey all, I planned on using a shimano funnel for the bleed. But reading the above, and being able to push the oil through sounds good. Where can I buy a syringe with the correct fitting for the topaz? Any suggestions?


I used my reverb bleed syringes, for a 2016 reverb. I got my Redline oil off a seller on ebay Australia - they were good, fast delivery.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Ahh I have some Sram guide bleed syringes, may be the same thread hey!


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Ahh I have some Sram guide bleed syringes, may be the same thread hey!


Hey Joel
Worth looking into. Stating the obvious here...if they fit, have to make sure the syringes were extra clean. Wouldn't want DOT fluid contamination anywhere near the topaz


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Ahh I have some Sram guide bleed syringes, may be the same thread hey!


I used a Shimano brake bleed syringe.


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

Are there any big dudes on this shock? Im talking 280+ riding weight? And if so, are you able to get the shock to 25% or so sag and still have usable travel??


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> I bought a Shockwiz after changing the oil from stock to Red Line 2.5W. While it felt like the suspension was moving faster I never tested the stock oil with the Shockwiz so it's hard to say or put a number on it. But the Shockwiz still screamed my LSC was to firm even with the 2.5W oil. I'd suggest starting out with the Like Water if you want the quickest shock. I also went with a more radical tune, 3 bands in the positive and 2 in the negative so I could run less can pressure. Before I was testing with only one band on the positive and getting good scores but the Shockwiz wants a really soft setup if using the Playful mode. I also found playful scored high on big drops and rough terrain. The same tune scored high if riding smooth trails and looked at the results in the Efficient mode. Best of both worlds maybe.


I ended up trying the Redline 2.5. Better than stock oil weight. LSC is lower in the open position and I notice the shock moving more. I probably won't go to the like water or I'll be flipping the climb switch the whole time.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Anyone know what kind of shock cleaner they recommend? What have you used? I have White Lightening Clean Streak, but that is probably too harsh for suspension components (seals and such).


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

I typically clean surfaces of suspension components with rubbing alcohol - doesn't seem to cause adverse reactions to anything. I'd agree that Clean Streak is probably a bit harsh.

If you're just cleaning the exterior of the shock, I like using Maxima SC1, or the Pedros equivalent silicone spray. Cleans things up nicely and the seals seem to like the little dose of silicone.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Maxima Suspension Clean


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

nvphatty said:


> Still can't ride so this is my therapy until such time.
> 
> View attachment 1128629
> 
> ...


nvphatty,

Which option did you go with on stikrd.com, the matte or the glossy finish? I'm tweaking colors as we speak with intentions of ordering Topaz and Pike decals that match. My factory Topaz stickers are pealing off already. BTW, still digging your colors.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

FYI too much factory grease can block off the negative air charging port in the sleeve. Mine felt awesome on the first couple rides but after putting a single band in the positive side everything went to hell. Tried pulling the outer sleeve and removing band, tried more rebound and then just pulled part and put back together the main air can.

After almost giving up I remembered all the trouble my pike had with too much grease on the dimple between the pos/neg air chambers not allowing air to transfer to the negative side of the air chamber.

After the second tear down I noticed a lot of factory grease in the bottom of the can and it was also blocking the tiny hole that let's air into the outer sleeve.

After some Q-tip clean up and reassemble the shock is as good as new or better. Just made sure to keep the grease (slick honey) right on the air can seal at the shaft and right on the X-ring at the piston.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I need ad advice I easily bottom out my topaz shock. It has two space on positive, 1 spaced on Negative. Shock pressure -230 psi and bladder pressure is 180.

So I have to add more spacer in positive or negative chamber?


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## R_Pierce (May 31, 2017)

IRBent said:


> nvphatty,
> 
> Which option did you go with on stikrd.com, the matte or the glossy finish? I'm tweaking colors as we speak with intentions of ordering Topaz and Pike decals that match. My factory Topaz stickers are pealing off already. BTW, still digging your colors.


That is most definitely the glossy finish.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rave81 said:


> I need ad advice I easily bottom out my topaz shock. It has two space on positive, 1 spaced on Negative. Shock pressure -230 psi and bladder pressure is 180.
> 
> So I have to add more spacer in positive or negative chamber?


You definitely need another tuning band on the positive side or to add more pressure to the bladder. Based in the air can pressure being so high already I'd assume you weigh over 200lbs. Bump the bladder pressure up and it will also help. My best tune so far has 3 positive bands, 2 negative bands, air can pressure equal to my riding weight with gear and the bladder equal to my weight without gear which is about 10 lbs/psi less. Just remember both have pressure limits but if I were you I'd try another 10psi first in the bladder and if that weren't enough try adding more not to exceed max pressure labeled on the Topaz.

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/tuning/topaztuning/


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

IRBent said:


> You definitely need another tuning band on the positive side or to add more pressure to the bladder. Based in the air can pressure being so high already I'd assume you weigh over 200lbs. Bump the bladder pressure up and it will also help. My best tune so far has 3 positive bands, 2 negative bands, air can pressure equal to my riding weight with gear and the bladder equal to my weight without gear which is about 10 lbs/psi less. Just remember both have pressure limits but if I were you I'd try another 10psi first in the bladder and if that weren't enough try adding more not to exceed max pressure labeled on the Topaz.
> 
> Topaz | DVO Suspension Tech Website


I weigh 86kg with gear arount 96kg to 100kg.

What does the negative chamber do?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rave81 said:


> I weigh 86kg with gear arount 96kg to 100kg.
> 
> What does the negative chamber do?


By adding bands to the negative chamber you achieve two results that go hand in hand. The band will push the entire stroke further into the curve which will allow the shock to be more supportive. You should be able to run lower main pressure and the sag stay put. For example. Let's say your air can is at 230psi but your sag is at 35% or more. By adding a negative band and keeping the can pressure at 230psi, your sag should be less, possibly 25% - 30%. By adding positive bands the suspension will stiffen up quicker as it goes through it's stroke and could possibly keep you from bottoming out. Adding air to the bladder keeps the suspension from moving as fast by putting pressure on the oil as it tries to move through the valve and shim stack. Any idea where your sag is percentage wise now under your current setup while fully geared up?


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## bummel42 (Sep 27, 2005)

Is there anyone riding a Reign with the Topaz? Any suggestions for a Setup?


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## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

bummel42 said:


> Is there anyone riding a Reign with the Topaz? Any suggestions for a Setup?


I did - until I switched over to coil. Reign 2015.

185 Lb with gear - 3 spacer in positive, 1 spacer in negative, forgot the PSI setting in both air and bladder, but I used manual as they had a chart, which was pretty spot on for me. As for the rebound click, I don't remember how many clicks but it was about 20-30% from fastest.

had 3 spacers because i liked progressiveness, and 1 negative to get more plush initial travel.


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

Anyone come up with any good ways to make the shock less green? Loving the performance, but all the green dials don't really fit my bike. 

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

TheArbez said:


> Anyone come up with any good ways to make the shock less green? Loving the performance, but all the green dials don't really fit my bike.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


Use oven cleaner to strip them to bare aluminum.

Or get the anodized another color

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## bummel42 (Sep 27, 2005)

ijak said:


> I did - until I switched over to coil. Reign 2015.
> 
> 185 Lb with gear - 3 spacer in positive, 1 spacer in negative, forgot the PSI setting in both air and bladder, but I used manual as they had a chart, which was pretty spot on for me. As for the rebound click, I don't remember how many clicks but it was about 20-30% from fastest.
> 
> had 3 spacers because i liked progressiveness, and 1 negative to get more plush initial travel.


Thanks a lot.
How would you rate the shock? Recommendable?
I was riding a Marziochi 053 in my Trance and looking for something comparable for my Reign...


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

TheArbez said:


> Anyone come up with any good ways to make the shock less green? Loving the performance, but all the green dials don't really fit my bike.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


I like the green as it matches my bike. But to add to the stripping idea, you can also have custom stickers made in whatever color you want at stikrd.com. I had them make mine.


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

FastBanana said:


> Use oven cleaner to strip them to bare aluminum.
> 
> Or get the anodized another color
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Cool, I might just try that. Anodizing sounds awesome, but expensive.

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

TheArbez said:


> Cool, I might just try that. Anodizing sounds awesome, but expensive.
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


Shouldn't be too bad. For a handful of small parts, like 50 to 100.

And, it's custom af

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

FastBanana said:


> Shouldn't be too bad. For a handful of small parts, like 50 to 100.
> 
> And, it's custom af
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I'm liking this more and more. Where would I get anodizing done?

Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

TheArbez said:


> I'm liking this more and more. Where would I get anodizing done?
> 
> Sent from my HTC6545LVW using Tapatalk


Look on insta or fb for someone that anodizes paintball guns.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Is it normal when you release air from the topaz that the stanchion sucks into the body of the shock? 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Is it normal when you release air from the topaz that the stanchion sucks into the body of the shock?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


I think the answer would be yes, due to the negative chamber still having pressure in it.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> I think the answer would be yes, due to the negative chamber still having pressure in it.


Mine did that. I tried to extend the shock like DVO says/shows in their video and it would not. WHen I removed the air can and got it down past the negative chamber it then blew the air out (and the o ring). This is not what they show in their video so I wonder if this is in fact how it should work.

After I added the volume spacer to the negative chamber the shock was locked out. I had to let the air out again, and add air/pump the rear end in 50-75PSI increments.

I did ask them about this, but never got a definitive answer. It was right before Interbike so they were probably there.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Is it normal when you release air from the topaz that the stanchion sucks into the body of the shock?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Let the air out slowly. Cycle the shock until you hear it pass the equalization point and cycle it a few times there to bleed out the negative chamber. Repeat until you're at zero pressure.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Let the air out slowly. Cycle the shock until you hear it pass the equalization point and cycle it a few times there to bleed out the negative chamber. Repeat until you're at zero pressure.


I've torn my Topaz completely down several times to the point where I could change the oil or adjust the shim stacks. Each time I simply let the air out of the main can without equalizing it while slowly releasing air as explained above. Yes, mine sucked in like he questioned. But after removing the main can the two chambers equalized with a pop. If it wasn't the main can, it was the internal can that equalized things. Either way, it's nothing to be concerned about. I'm pretty sure if you slowly air it back up, cycle the shock between pressures, things will be just fine.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Thanks all! Long as I know it's normal I'm not concerned. Finally got some oil on the way so hope soon to have a go at bleeding the damper. 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> Thanks all! Long as I know it's normal I'm not concerned. Finally got some oil on the way so hope soon to have a go at bleeding the damper.
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Dirt simple job. So which oil are you using? I went with Red Line Extra Light 2.5W then dropped it down some more to Red Line Like Water.


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

I'll start with the redline 2.5wt I've got. I've seen that you don't even need to pull it apart to bleed? 

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Joel Fitzgerald said:


> I'll start with the redline 2.5wt I've got. I've seen that you don't even need to pull it apart to bleed?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


You know, while I took mine slap apart, I'd imagine it could be possible to change the oil by way of the bleed port alone. I will say that last step outlined in their rebuild tech manual that has you connect a bleed syringe to the port and cycle the shock to get the last bit of air out, that part must be done thoroughly or air bubbles will deal you fits on your ride and tune. Tearing it down is dirt simple and using a plastic gift card to cap the oil when inverting the shaft upside down keeps you from losing near as much oil, or from allowing too much air to get in. Just fill, cap with a card, flip it over and align it over the piston and quickly pull the card allowing the cylinder to drop onto the threaded section. The instructions say to thread it maybe 1-2 rounds. I veered from the instructions by removing the bleed screw at this point then threaded the shaft on to piston as far as I could be hand. This allowed the air to escape the bleed port as I tightened the shaft down. Put the bleed screw back in and proceed to follow the other instructions to tighten it properly and finish the bleed process I previously mentioned as being so important. The bleed screw is the same as a Shimano brake bleed screw if memory serves me correctly.


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## reinim (Jun 3, 2017)

Hi, I´m very interested in buying the Topaz, have read the whole thread but still have some questions: First of all I currently ride a Canyon Spectral and have lent a Cane Creek DB Air [IL] from a friend, which replaced the Monarch RT3 that came stock with the bike. The Cane Creek was already a massive improvement over the Monarch, since the Monarch was L/L tune, which was to less damping for my weight (90kg), especially the HSR. Now on the Cane Creek I run 4 turns for HSR and about 15 clicks of LSR. My first questions is now if the Topaz will have enough rebound damping for my setup without having to fiddle with the shims? My second question is if anyone has some charts of the spring curve of the topaz since I would like to compare it to the Cane Creek. I like the more linear curve of the new IL and wonder if the topaz is similar.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

reinim said:


> Hi, I´m very interested in buying the Topaz, have read the whole thread but still have some questions: First of all I currently ride a Canyon Spectral and have lent a Cane Creek DB Air [IL] from a friend, which replaced the Monarch RT3 that came stock with the bike. The Cane Creek was already a massive improvement over the Monarch, since the Monarch was L/L tune, which was to less damping for my weight (90kg), especially the HSR. Now on the Cane Creek I run 4 turns for HSR and about 15 clicks of LSR. My first questions is now if the Topaz will have enough rebound damping for my setup without having to fiddle with the shims? My second question is if anyone has some charts of the spring curve of the topaz since I would like to compare it to the Cane Creek. I like the more linear curve of the new IL and wonder if the topaz is similar.


Cane Creek shocks always feel great when they're working and they're fresh, which is about 50% of the year. Most Cane Creek owners invest in a nice "backup shock" for the 50% of the year when their Cane Creek shock is off being repaired.

Personally, my Topaz may only be 95% of what my Cane Creek shock was, but it works year round and I can rebuild it myself (my cane creek cost $150 each time it needed repair and was out of warranty).


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

porch said:


> cane creek shocks always feel great when they're working and they're fresh, which is about 50% of the year. Most cane creek owners invest in a nice "backup shock" for the 50% of the year when their cane creek shock is off being repaired.
> 
> Personally, my topaz may only be 95% of what my cane creek shock was, but it works year round and i can rebuild it myself (my cane creek cost $150 each time it needed repair and was out of warranty).


exactly


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## reinim (Jun 3, 2017)

Porch said:


> Cane Creek shocks always feel great when they're working and they're fresh, which is about 50% of the year. Most Cane Creek owners invest in a nice "backup shock" for the 50% of the year when their Cane Creek shock is off being repaired.
> 
> Personally, my Topaz may only be 95% of what my Cane Creek shock was, but it works year round and I can rebuild it myself (my cane creek cost $150 each time it needed repair and was out of warranty).


Why was the Topaz only like 95% for you? What did you miss compared to the cane creek?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

reinim said:


> Why was the Topaz only like 95% for you? What did you miss compared to the cane creek?


I had the CC IL and DBAir. The IL especially is just very "poppy" and playful. It's not a feeling i've managed to duplicate on any other air shock. On the other hand, it broke 2 times in a month and each time CC told me they had put their latest/greatest parts on it and it shouldn't have any more problems.

On my DBAir, the shock was similarly fun when it was fresh, but throughout the course of a few months it would just degrade until it felt like absolute crap. I spent hours fiddling with the settings, thinking I had screwed something up. Then eventually it would die, i'd send it off for $150 to get repaired, and it would come back and i'd start all over.

The new CC shocks are supposedly better, but there are already a handful of "my new CC shock makes a weird noise" threads. I'm not planning on going back, ever.


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## reinim (Jun 3, 2017)

I have experienced that too that it feels very playful, which is on the one hand quite a lot of fun, but in my opinion when I really get up to speed on trails (around 30mph) it gets a bit nervous over rocks and roots (might also be caused by the frames geometry ), although I am almost at max rebound damping. The only thing that worries me about the Topaz is the rebound range, because i do not want to change the shimstack and I am not sure if it will be enough since I am using so much damping on the Cane Creek already.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

reinim said:


> I have experienced that too that it feels very playful, which is on the one hand quite a lot of fun, but in my opinion when I really get up to speed on trails (around 30mph) it gets a bit nervous over rocks and roots (might also be caused by the frames geometry ), although I am almost at max rebound damping. The only thing that worries me about the Topaz is the rebound range, because i do not want to change the shimstack and I am not sure if it will be enough since I am using so much damping on the Cane Creek already.


In my opinion, the rebound dampening on the Topaz is a bit to much stock. Many others have seen the same results when hooking a Shockwiz up to it. I went from stock fluid down the Red Line Like Water to speed the rebound and compression dampening up. I weigh 180-185 pounds with gear and after the oil change I think my rebound is 3 clicks closed from wide open.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

IRBent said:


> In my opinion, the rebound dampening on the Topaz is a bit to much stock. Many others have seen the same results when hooking a Shockwiz up to it. I went from stock fluid down the Red Line Like Water to speed the rebound and compression dampening up. I weigh 180-185 pounds with gear and after the oil change I think my rebound is 3 clicks closed from wide open.


I'm with you there, but I think it's the LSR that's too much. Am I wrong?

I've got some "like water" laying around, maybe i'll play with it over the winter.


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## reinim (Jun 3, 2017)

Well that sounds good, I like it a bit more damped and controlled, no need for "poppy" and playful. I might give it a go. Thanks for your answers.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

reinim said:


> Well that sounds good, I like it a bit more damped and controlled, no need for "poppy" and playful. I might give it a go. Thanks for your answers.


The good thing about DVO the company and the Topaz, DVO will gladly talk you through a shim stack adjustment if you find that you need it. Then too, tearing the shock down to the bare bones can be done with only an 18mm and maybe a 10mm to remove the shim stack. I'm working off of memory from just seeing the but on the shim stack as I never removed or altered the stack.


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## rave81 (Mar 1, 2013)

I need help. I’m bottoming out my dvo topaz. I weigh 100kg with gear included. My current setup is air can pressure 240 psi, piggy back pressure -180 3x volume reducer on positive chamber. Sag -30%. 

I mainly side aggressive and steep trail with medium -big jumps.

Any suggestion to prevent bottoming out?


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

rave81 said:


> I need help. I'm bottoming out my dvo topaz. I weigh 100kg with gear included. My current setup is air can pressure 240 psi, piggy back pressure -180 3x volume reducer on positive chamber. Sag -30%.
> 
> I mainly side aggressive and steep trail with medium -big jumps.
> 
> Any suggestion to prevent bottoming out?


I've never really been able to solve this... Love everything else about the Topaz.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rave81 said:


> I need help. I'm bottoming out my dvo topaz. I weigh 100kg with gear included. My current setup is air can pressure 240 psi, piggy back pressure -180 3x volume reducer on positive chamber. Sag -30%.
> 
> I mainly side aggressive and steep trail with medium -big jumps.
> 
> Any suggestion to prevent bottoming out?


I know linkages affect the way things work but what I found to work for me is as described. I wanted my shock to really move, subtle on the top for the smaller bumps, rocks as roots, yet not bottom on the bigger hits. Bare in mind, bigger hits for me are drops less than 3 feet or jumps with good transitional landings where the ground angle helps reduce the harsh landings. I ended up with 2 bands on the negative side to help push me further into the curve and support my weight in order to keep me @ 30% sag. This also allowed me to reduce the air can pressure to help speed up the shock movement. I installed 3 bands on the positive side like you. I weigh less so my air can and bladder recommendations won't work for you but my bladder pressure is set within 5 psi of my body weight without gear in pounds. Then my air can is set only 10psi higher than my bladder pressure, or set about to my riding weight in pounds, gear included. I'd suggest bumping the bladder up. That puts back pressure on the shim stack and helps slow the oil movement and in turn slows the overall shock movement too. By slowing things down, the extra resistance might help keep you from bottoming. I'd bump the bladder pressure up but not to exceed the recommended 200psi. Since you weight @ 220 pounds I'd consider 200psi in the bladder and adjusting air can pressure if still needed to stop bottoming.


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

rave81 said:


> I need help. I'm bottoming out my dvo topaz. I weigh 100kg with gear included. My current setup is air can pressure 240 psi, piggy back pressure -180 3x volume reducer on positive chamber. Sag -30%.
> 
> I mainly side aggressive and steep trail with medium -big jumps.
> 
> Any suggestion to prevent bottoming out?


Like IRBent, I'd also suggest you increase the piggy back bladder pressure to 200 psi. If that doesn't completely solve your problem, you can add another volume reducer to the positive side.

I had the same issue as you and increasing the bladder pressure helped quite a bit.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

matsf said:


> Like IRBent, I'd also suggest you increase the piggy back bladder pressure to 200 psi. If that doesn't completely solve your problem, you can add another volume reducer to the positive side.
> 
> I had the same issue as you and increasing the bladder pressure helped quite a bit.


How much do you weigh in comparison to his 100kg/220lbs?


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## matsf (Aug 28, 2015)

IRBent said:


> How much do you weigh in comparison to his 100kg/220lbs?


I'm around 170 with gear and ended up with 190 psi in the bladder.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

matsf said:


> I'm around 170 with gear and ended up with 190 psi in the bladder.


I'm weighing closer to 172-175 without gear and have my bladder at 170psi and my air can at 180psi. But I've also changed out the oil to the lowest viscosity oil I could find. I have to admit while at times I ride rough trails, there's not many drops or big jumps at my usual riding spot so I rarely use full stroke. But what I do use is plush as all get out.


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## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

bummel42 said:


> Thanks a lot.
> How would you rate the shock? Recommendable?
> I was riding a Marziochi 053 in my Trance and looking for something comparable for my Reign...


Spend the time and set it up properly = coil like with progressiveness.

i didn't and just went straight to coil cause i had the chance.


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## bummel42 (Sep 27, 2005)

Thank you!


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

ijak said:


> Spend the time and set it up properly = coil like with progressiveness.
> 
> i didn't and just went straight to coil cause i had the chance.


Yeah.. coil shocks are not known for being progressive, in fact quite the opposite.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

What's with the obsession with 30% sag?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

rave81 said:


> I need help. I'm bottoming out my dvo topaz. I weigh 100kg with gear included. My current setup is air can pressure 240 psi, piggy back pressure -180 3x volume reducer on positive chamber. Sag -30%.
> 
> I mainly side aggressive and steep trail with medium -big jumps.
> 
> Any suggestion to prevent bottoming out?


How much travel does your bike have? You can't expect to get small bump compliance and big hit capability on a say a 100mm bike.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

rave81 said:


> I need help. I'm bottoming out my dvo topaz. I weigh 100kg with gear included. My current setup is air can pressure 240 psi, piggy back pressure -180 3x volume reducer on positive chamber. Sag -30%.
> 
> I mainly side aggressive and steep trail with medium -big jumps.
> 
> Any suggestion to prevent bottoming out?


Give DVO a call, those guys are great!

I weight 81kg and run ~235psi. I'd start by bumping up your pressure to at least 250psi and go from there.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

FastBanana said:


> What's with the obsession with 30% sag?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


While I'm far from obsessed with a target number of any kind, it seems that the Shockwiz is either programmed to target 30% sag or the results it liked were better if sag on my DVO Topaz was closer to 30%.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

So has anyone started playing with the shim stack on their Topaz? I'm riding a Canfield Toir/Riot and I've reached the conclusion it's not going to cut it for my riding in stock form. It is decidedly over damped for me and has little to no small bump compliance. It routinely gets hung up on square edged ~4" hits (roots/rocks/etc) which is very destabilizing. If I hold my finger on the shock body I get continuous movement from pedaling motion but it won't move at all hitting 2/3" sharp edged bumps. It'll stay locked solid then rebound on the back side. I'm not a big hitter (2' drop max), but when I do hit such a drop I'm generally using full travel. It definitely has the feeling in stock form that it would be fantastic at 2-6' drops. For me though, I ride super lumpy New England rock/root, I've never even seen a g-out, and my old man self isn't hopping off anything over 2'. 

Current setup: 180lb rider weight, 30% sag, tried pretty much every combination of positive/negative bands from 180-205 psi.

One of the UK sites mentioned the Topaz has a stock compression shim stack of (3)0.15x22m. If so, I'm not at all surprised by my complaints. I have a full range of shims on order but would love to hear someone's thoughts. Otherwise, I'm planning on:

(1) 0.15x22mm
(2) 0.10 x 20mm
(2) 0.10 x 18mm


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

car_nut said:


> So has anyone started playing with the shim stack on their Topaz? I'm riding a Canfield Toir/Riot and I've reached the conclusion it's not going to cut it for my riding in stock form. It is decidedly over damped for me and has little to no small bump compliance. It routinely gets hung up on square edged ~4" hits (roots/rocks/etc) which is very destabilizing. If I hold my finger on the shock body I get continuous movement from pedaling motion but it won't move at all hitting 2/3" sharp edged bumps. It'll stay locked solid then rebound on the back side. I'm not a big hitter (2' drop max), but when I do hit such a drop I'm generally using full travel. It definitely has the feeling in stock form that it would be fantastic at 2-6' drops. For me though, I ride super lumpy New England rock/root, I've never even seen a g-out, and my old man self isn't hopping off anything over 2'.
> 
> Current setup: 180lb rider weight, 30% sag, tried pretty much every combination of positive/negative bands from 180-205 psi.
> 
> ...


I have a riot myself. I'm 200-220 geared up depending on where I'm riding. I've had mine riot with dvo topaz and diamond all over Indiana up to Michigan our to pisgah and DuPont and to snow shoe and windrock and I've had none of these issues. I'm currently running 2 bands pos 1 band neg. about 210-220 in main chamber and 190-200 in small bladder.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> So has anyone started playing with the shim stack on their Topaz? I'm riding a Canfield Toir/Riot and I've reached the conclusion it's not going to cut it for my riding in stock form. It is decidedly over damped for me and has little to no small bump compliance. It routinely gets hung up on square edged ~4" hits (roots/rocks/etc) which is very destabilizing. If I hold my finger on the shock body I get continuous movement from pedaling motion but it won't move at all hitting 2/3" sharp edged bumps. It'll stay locked solid then rebound on the back side. I'm not a big hitter (2' drop max), but when I do hit such a drop I'm generally using full travel. It definitely has the feeling in stock form that it would be fantastic at 2-6' drops. For me though, I ride super lumpy New England rock/root, I've never even seen a g-out, and my old man self isn't hopping off anything over 2'.
> 
> Current setup: 180lb rider weight, 30% sag, tried pretty much every combination of positive/negative bands from 180-205 psi.
> 
> ...


I'd love it if you kept me, or us, informed of your progress. I weigh about the same as you and sounds like we ride similar terrain. I've spoken with Ronnie at DVO and either he or the owner one told me he thought the shim stack was too much for me. I'm sure I still have the email where Ronnie told me to call him once I was into the shock and he'd talk me through shim stack adjustment. I opted to try lower viscosity oil before shim stack adjustment. I'm currently running Red Line Like Water and like you, the rear occasionally feels like it's getting hung up.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Raleighguy29 said:


> I have a riot myself. I'm 200-220 geared up depending on where I'm riding. I've had mine riot with dvo topaz and diamond all over Indiana up to Michigan our to pisgah and DuPont and to snow shoe and windrock and I've had none of these issues. I'm currently running 2 bands pos 1 band neg. about 210-220 in main chamber and 190-200 in small bladder.


Thanks! You actually chimed in and gave me your settings when I reached out for initial set up advice. It definitely sounds like I'm an outlier, as the closest thing I've seen to a complaint on the Riot thread is relative to high speed chunder. Not really sure I know why, but I've ridden enough frames/shocks to know this setup is pretty far from perfect. I'm coming off a Kona Satori with a modified Monarch Plus that was near perfect. My Devinci Atlas with Monarch RT3 is about 10x better on small bump and square edged hits. I can literally look down at the shock as a bump jolts me in the spine and it doesn't move.



IRBent said:


> I'd love it if you kept me, or us, informed of your progress. I weigh about the same as you and sounds like we ride similar terrain. I've spoken with Ronnie at DVO and either he or the owner one told me he thought the shim stack was too much for me. I'm sure I still have the email where Ronnie told me to call him once I was into the shock and he'd talk me through shim stack adjustment. I opted to try lower viscosity oil before shim stack adjustment. I'm currently running Red Line Like Water and like you, the rear occasionally feels like it's getting hung up.


Shall do! My plan is to target Red Line 2.5 only because I'm happy with the LSC and rebound in general. Just need to work on getting the HSC stack to open up.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Shall do! My plan is to target Red Line 2.5 only because I'm happy with the LSC and rebound in general. Just need to work on getting the HSC stack to open up.


So where did you order the shims and what do you have coming? I'm pretty ignorant to shim diameters and thickness, and how they compare between manufacturers. Although I have read everything DVO put out about shim stacks and such as well as have mics to measure them. I'm not scared to learn from you either.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

IRBent said:


> So where did you order the shims and what do you have coming? I'm pretty ignorant to shim diameters and thickness, and how they compare between manufacturers. Although I have read everything DVO put out about shim stacks and such as well as have mics to measure them. I'm not scared to learn from you either.


I decided to roll the dice and assume the shim sizes mentioned in this thread were correct (I'm not following his multistage shim approach since most say that will be like hitting the lottery to get it right without a dyno and stacker program)
DVO Topaz? | Ridemonkey Forums

Ordered shims from here:
A. 0.10 Thickness | 3. 8mm ID Shims | Shim Parts Suspension Direct | Suspension Direct, Inc.

I ordered some 0.015x20mm, and 0.010 in 2mm increments from 20 through 16.

Let me say right up front, I only know enough to be dangerous on this so follow with caution


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> I decided to roll the dice and assume the shim sizes mentioned in this thread were correct (I'm not following his multistage shim approach since most say that will be like hitting the lottery to get it right without a dyno and stacker program)
> DVO Topaz? | Ridemonkey Forums
> 
> Ordered shims from here:
> ...


Ah, I see you've read that guys foray into shim stack adjustment too. While I've been into mine twice now, all the way to the point of the shims, I only changed the oil. I went with the RedLine 2.5W first and it didn't seem to help enough. I then went with their lowest, popped a 3rd tuning band on the positive side and a 2nd on the negative side and lowered pressures hoping to get a more active shock. I weigh in around 180-185 with gear and have been running the bladder at 170psi and my can at 180psi. It seems to do better when it's hot and the oil is at its thinnest. In my mind that's proof the stack is still too tight.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

car_nut said:


> So has anyone started playing with the shim stack on their Topaz? I'm riding a Canfield Toir/Riot and I've reached the conclusion it's not going to cut it for my riding in stock form. It is decidedly over damped for me and has little to no small bump compliance. It routinely gets hung up on square edged ~4" hits (roots/rocks/etc) which is very destabilizing. If I hold my finger on the shock body I get continuous movement from pedaling motion but it won't move at all hitting 2/3" sharp edged bumps. It'll stay locked solid then rebound on the back side. I'm not a big hitter (2' drop max), but when I do hit such a drop I'm generally using full travel. It definitely has the feeling in stock form that it would be fantastic at 2-6' drops. For me though, I ride super lumpy New England rock/root, I've never even seen a g-out, and my old man self isn't hopping off anything over 2'.
> 
> Current setup: 180lb rider weight, 30% sag, tried pretty much every combination of positive/negative bands from 180-205 psi.
> 
> ...


My two cents. Start by removing one of the stock shims. Your proposed stack is way, way softer. You may need to add bands in the positive chamber afterwords to control bottoming.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## bikeboardorblade (Jun 19, 2011)

Any word on when the metric sizes will be available?

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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Really appreciate everyone who's chimed in here with their weight, settings and results. I just started riding a Riot w/Topaz this past week, and based my initial setup on feedback here, as I'd never even ridden a FS bike on an actual trail before. I'm already experimenting with pressure and spacers to make it do exactly what I want, but a 14 mile "test ride" followed by minimal tweaking and 34 miles over a wide variety of terrain the next day left me very happy with my bike and the shock(after getting the rebound dialed in, anyway). Also pleased with the shock's ease of adjustment, with the only complaint being the lack of more positive detents on the rebound knob. 
Thanks very much!:thumbsup:


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## bkirk (Dec 20, 2014)

Chiming in with my settings. Recently picked up a Topaz for 2016 Canfield Balance. I've put in about 40 laps at Snow Summit with the rear shock. 

I'm a fairly aggressive rider 165 lbs geared up.

Current Settings:

200 PSI main chamber
195 PSI bladder
5 clicks clockwise of rebound
1 spacer in positive

Definitely adding another spacer in the positive chamber. I'd say I have a solid base with my current settings and will experiment slightly on the main and bladder pressure +\- 5-10 psi depending on what I am riding. Not enough bottom out resistance when hitting bigger features and when pushing it. Other then that, feels pretty damn solid to me and I am happy with the way the shock is performing otherwise.


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

available - at least in certain sizes. reach out to dvo - they will respond fast. for reference - some are avail on jenson now


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## bikeboardorblade (Jun 19, 2011)

kamper11 said:


> available - at least in certain sizes. reach out to dvo - they will respond fast. for reference - some are avail on jenson now


Sweet! Thanks!

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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Here, I'll contribute _something_ 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A..._QL65&keywords=SecureTM+Cable+Ties+neon+green







That's a "regular" green one on there^^







:madman: Hate this uploader thing, but these neon green ones are a perfect match for the logo.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

OwenM said:


> Here, I'll contribute _something_
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00A..._QL65&keywords=SecureTM+Cable+Ties+neon+green
> View attachment 1163836
> 
> ...


I like the all matchy matchy. Ordered custom decals for my Topaz and Pike from Stikrd.com so things could be more matchy.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Pulled my Topaz apart. Shims and oil due today. Not sure what my plan is yet, but my goodness is this a rudimentary shim stack compared to my Monarch Plus.

EDIT: Just to keep all the info in this one post, I'll edit here to add any other relevant info.

Compression side of piston is flat
Rebound side is dished
The compression side backer plate shows 11mm dia on the picture. It's slightly stepped down after that and tapered to the OD. The thickness delta from the 11mm clamp portion to OD is 0.5mm, so it's allowing 0.5mm of shim lift at its OD. At work now but I'll get a picture with dims tonight.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Pulled my Topaz apart. Shims and oil due today. Not sure what my plan is yet, but my goodness is this a rudimentary shim stack compared to my Monarch Plus.


Interesting. I assume that's on the compression side, right? I'm not very knowledgeable in shim stacks but I assumed there are similar configurations in the rebound side of the valve too?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

No, that's the whole damn thing. The backer on the compression side only allows 0.5mm of shim lift, which is why I was having issues with spiking/square edged hits. The rebound "stack" are the two shims in the upper right corner of the pic. They're basically just a check valve given the small size of the rebound ports in the piston.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> No, that's the whole damn thing. The backer on the compression side only allows 0.5mm of shim lift, which is why I was having issues with spiking/square edged hits. The rebound "stack" are the two shims in the upper right corner of the pic. They're basically just a check valve given the small size of the rebound ports in the piston.


I hope not to be a burden but I'm learning from you. When you say the backer only allows 0.5mm of lift, I'm not following you. I assume the 22mm shim sits on the face of the valve and the smaller shims stack in order per the pic. Since the next largest shim is 20mm I was thinking it prohibited the 22mm from lifting more than 1mm around the circumference. Please explain. If successful you'll have me off into my stack as mine feels like it packs up on successive small hits.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> When you say the backer only allows 0.5mm of lift, I'm not following you.


The backer (I'm assuming) is solid and doesn't move. Since it has 0.5mm of space the shims, which can move, can only 'open' 0.5mm.

Car_Nut, did you use any docs, videos, or other guide to open it up? Or was it just a matter of pulling it apart piece by piece?


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Wow, I thought the shim stack would be a lot more exciting than that. These shocks definitely do not do well on square-edged hits, guess I can see why now.

Wish I knew enough to know where to make changes. Hoping you guys do


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

Mine does amazing on square edges. With an extremely controlled rebound. It's also the best climbing shock I have owned.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I hope not to be a burden but I'm learning from you. When you say the backer only allows 0.5mm of lift, I'm not following you. I assume the 22mm shim sits on the face of the valve and the smaller shims stack in order per the pic. Since the next largest shim is 20mm I was thinking it prohibited the 22mm from lifting more than 1mm around the circumference. Please explain. If successful you'll have me off into my stack as mine feels like it packs up on successive small hits.


Burden? Sharing info is why we're here man! What Doug explained is what I was referring to. Let me know if that still isn't clear.

Packing up under successive hits is rebound. Try opening yours up a bit. If that doesn't work, you can try adjusting the shims on the rebound side. The ports look small though.



Doug said:


> The backer (I'm assuming) is solid and doesn't move. Since it has 0.5mm of space the shims, which can move, can only 'open' 0.5mm.
> 
> Car_Nut, did you use any docs, videos, or other guide to open it up? Or was it just a matter of pulling it apart piece by piece?


DVO has a fantastic service doc that'll get you 95% of the way there. Once it's fully knocked down, clamp the damper shaft in some soft blocks and spin the black nut off. An impact driver was needed on mine, but I don't have the grippiest soft blocks. Once the nut is loose, hold an allen wrench against the damper shaft and take the nut the rest of the way off. Slide the piston/stack onto the wrench then sit down and document it piece by piece.



Porch said:


> Wow, I thought the shim stack would be a lot more exciting than that. These shocks definitely do not do well on square-edged hits, guess I can see why now.
> 
> Wish I knew enough to know where to make changes. Hoping you guys do


Yes, definitely not an impressive stack. The piston has generous ports on the compression side, so just a matter of tuning it to my tastes and life will be good there. A little concerned about the rebound side, but likely quite fine for me.



Scotth72 said:


> Mine does amazing on square edges. With an extremely controlled rebound. It's also the best climbing shock I have owned.


Don't get me wrong, it's a good shock. My complaints are relative to my specific shock tune, on my bike, on my trails, with my overweight middle aged self plopped atop it  With that said, the shim stack is reminiscent of a 2010 Monarch R.


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## fxr man (Nov 16, 2007)

My topaz and diamond feels harsh on square edge bumps and that's after taking it to Ronnie at DVO..
He put oil on top of fork piston so I could run less air but my LSC and HSC are set at fully open and I'm running way low air pressure in the fork for my weight and it still feels too harsh on small bump and square edge hits.
On the topaz he did a rebound mid as he says and changed the oil and that did help a lot but still suffers the small bump and square edge hit harshness.
Thinking of taking it back for another try...


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

fxr man said:


> My topaz and diamond feels harsh on square edge bumps and that's after taking it to Ronnie at DVO..
> He put oil on top of fork piston so I could run less air but my LSC and HSC are set at fully open and I'm running way low air pressure in the fork for my weight and it still feels too harsh on small bump and square edge hits.
> On the topaz he did a rebound mid as he says and changed the oil and that did help a lot but still suffers the small bump and square edge hit harshness.
> Thinking of taking it back for another try...


With the diamond, have you increased the OTT? Also, you could flip the compression piston which will get it into the high speed stack sooner. Finally, you might try upping the pressure when increasing the OTT. With a lower pressure you may be getting too far into the midtravel where the spring is ramping up, making it feel harsh.

Keep in mind the Diamond is a fork that wants to be ridden hard. The faster and harder it is pushed, the better it feels. It is valved for aggressive riders.


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## EvilBkr (Mar 14, 2006)

I've been on mine over a year and I'm getting ready to do a full rebuild and seal change on mine since it's developed a nasty squishy sound. It took a bit to get it where I wanted it but once I did it's been great.

For the record and hopefully it helps others, i weigh in at about 175 loaded. The bike is a 2016 Transition Smuggler. My setting are as follows; 4 bands in the positive chamber, 175 PSI in the can, 175 PSI in the bladder, and 4 clicks in from full open on the rebound dial. The Shockwiz seems to like these settings and I get green across the board, with the dynamic sag between 32-33%.

4 bands positive may seem excessive but the Smuggler is known to have a very linear suspension curve and Transition's bikes are designed to ride fairly deep in their travel. Anyway the ride feels active without excessive bottoming, bobbing, and wallowing.

I'm looking forward to putting many more miles on this thing after it gets a full refresh.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

*A Better Understanding of Shim Stack Function?*



car_nut said:


> Burden? Sharing info is why we're here man! What Doug explained is what I was referring to. Let me know if that still isn't clear.
> 
> Packing up under successive hits is rebound. Try opening yours up a bit. If that doesn't work, you can try adjusting the shims on the rebound side. The ports look small though.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it's a good shock. My complaints are relative to my specific shock tune, on my bike, on my trails, with my overweight middle aged self plopped atop it  With that said, the shim stack is reminiscent of a 2010 Monarch R.


I appreciate folks who share info. If you go way back you'll see I was sharing new user info about oil viscosity and changes months ago. I was looking for a bit more action and to lessen maybe those square edge issues you have. I'm old, a bit over weight and forgetful these days. So what are you riding and what's your definition of old and overweight? I''' soon be 51 and weigh around 180-185 with gear. Oh, but I was thinking I recalled seeing something that looked like shims or a valve inside the air bladder/reservoir. If my memory is accurate, wouldn't that too affect the oil movement?

I think I follow the backer purpose or comment now. So help me understand the stack function better. I assume they're stacked largest to smallest in a cone fashion with the 22mm OD shim sitting on the flat side/compression face. As the shock begins to move the oil tries to move too. The 22mm shim is the initial resistance and tries to keep the oil from moving through the valve. If that's the case I'd assume dropping it's thickness from 0.15mm to 0.10mm would allow the oil to flow more freely in the initial movement, which I'm mentally translating into the smaller, early travel bumps we both have issues with. Does it sound like I've theorized this remotely close to reality?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

EvilBkr said:


> I've been on mine over a year and I'm getting ready to do a full rebuild and seal change on mine since it's developed a nasty squishy sound. It took a bit to get it where I wanted it but once I did it's been great.
> 
> For the record and hopefully it helps others, i weigh in at about 175 loaded. The bike is a 2016 Transition Smuggler. My setting are as follows; 4 bands in the positive chamber, 175 PSI in the can, 175 PSI in the bladder, and 4 clicks in from full open on the rebound dial. The Shockwiz seems to like these settings and I get green across the board, with the dynamic sag between 32-33%.
> 
> ...


I know nothing about suspension progression and despite having gained 5-10 lbs of late, my tune is almost just like yours. I'm on a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson and my air can has been set about to my geared rider weight but my air bladder is 10psi less than my air can. My rebound is 3 or 4 clicks from full open too.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

IRBent said:


> I know nothing about suspension progression and despite having gained 5-10 lbs of late, my tune is almost just like yours. I'm on a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson and my air can has been set about to my geared rider weight but my air bladder is 10psi less than my air can. My rebound is 3 or 4 clicks from full open too.


The 2015 Bronson has the classic VPP Regressive/Progressive curve, but it is much flatter than earlier VPP bikes, to the point it is nearly linear. Overall the curve is very similar to the Smuggler, just at a slightly higher leverage ratio. Given that, it is not surprising your setup is very close, with minor changes to air can pressure to get the correct sag.

Santa Cruz Bronson 2013 - Linkage Design

Transition Smuggler 2015 - Linkage Design


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Cary said:


> The 2015 Bronson has the classic VPP Regressive/Progressive curve, but it is much flatter than earlier VPP bikes, to the point it is nearly linear. Overall the curve is very similar to the Smuggler, just at a slightly higher leverage ratio. Given that, it is not surprising your setup is very close, with minor changes to air can pressure to get the correct sag.
> 
> Santa Cruz Bronson 2013 - Linkage Design
> 
> Transition Smuggler 2015 - Linkage Design


Sweet, a new site to bookmark. Thanks for the links. I see where the curve on your Smuggler ramps up a bit further, faster at the end than my Bronson. Still, I understand.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Sweet, a new site to bookmark. Thanks for the links. I see where the curve on your Smuggler ramps up a bit further, faster at the end than my Bronson. Still, I understand.


Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be updating much anymore. You may want to watch this guys video's as he does a really good job of explaining the designs and tradeoffs:

https://www.youtube.com/user/andrextr/videos

Vorsprung's Tuesday Tune series is also great, but I would watch the Andrextr videos also.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Cary said:


> Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to be updating much anymore. You may want to watch this guys video's as he does a really good job of explaining the designs and tradeoffs:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/user/andrextr/videos
> 
> Vorsprung's Tuesday Tune series is also great, but I would watch the Andrextr videos also.


Ah, I am very familiar with Andrextr's videos and have learned a lot in the last year from him. I've also watched all of the Vorsprung videos and learned tons there as well. Maybe $75 worth of learning from Vorsprung as I ended up plopping a Luftkappe into my Pike after gettign the Topaz. Before the Topaz I thought my pike was good enough. But once the rear made butter out of 2" - 3" roots, I had to install a larger negative spring on the front end. I couldn't stop at that alone either. I bought a Shockwiz and started trying to get an idea about what it thought a good tune was. Luckily for me I started out with scores in the 90's and only 2 minor tweaks got me as good as it could be on the Topaz. I've yet to connect it to the Pike.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I appreciate folks who share info. If you go way back you'll see I was sharing new user info about oil viscosity and changes months ago.


Sorry, I think I worded my response poorly. What I was trying to say was that asking a question was in no way a burden and I'm quite happy to respond and help in any way I can, much as you clearly have. I'm a little too snarky at times. Sorry about that 


IRBent said:


> I was looking for a bit more action and to lessen maybe those square edge issues you have. I'm old, a bit over weight and forgetful these days. So what are you riding and what's your definition of old and overweight? I''' soon be 51 and weigh around 180-185 with gear.


I'm 43, with a 63 year old back, 185 out of the shower. I'm on a Canfield Riot riding New England trails, which are typically littered with rocks and slow in nature. The places I most enjoy riding are difficult to hold a 6mph average over a 2 hour ride. I'm looking for a decent amount of low speed compression to keep the bike in control with a quick blow off that allows the suspension to move over sharp transitions and hold traction. I'm coming off a Kona Satori which I was running a Monarch Plus RC3 which I had detuned to a low compression/medium rebound.



IRBent said:


> Oh, but I was thinking I recalled seeing something that looked like shims or a valve inside the air bladder/reservoir. If my memory is accurate, wouldn't that too affect the oil movement?


It all depends on the shock. As the shock compresses, the oil has to go somewhere. If there's a restriction to flow along the way, it adds to the dampening. Typically the piggy back stack is used for low speed compression, but if it becomes a choke point it will affect mid/high speed compression as well. If you have the compression lever in the open position, it opens a poppet valve that bypasses that stack. If the poppet valve is big enough, it will have no effect on the high speed compression. I have no idea what the impact is with the Topaz. Usually the main piston has the biggest impact in a properly designed shock, so I'm going to start there and hopefully ignore the piggy back.

The bladder is another story. When the damper shaft is pushed inside the damper body, something has to make up for that volume change (imagine pushing a baseball bat into a full bucket of water). That's what the bladder is there for. Now, imagine the main piston was perfectly sealed shut. As you compress the shock, you'll create a vacuum behind the piston. This will add some force, but not much in the grand scheme of things. The oil on top of the piston will compress that bladder. That's an exaggeration of what happens when the damper piston/shim stack can't flow enough oil compared to the bladder pressure.



IRBent said:


> I think I follow the backer purpose or comment now. So help me understand the stack function better. I assume they're stacked largest to smallest in a cone fashion with the 22mm OD shim sitting on the flat side/compression face. As the shock begins to move the oil tries to move too. The 22mm shim is the initial resistance and tries to keep the oil from moving through the valve. If that's the case I'd assume dropping it's thickness from 0.15mm to 0.10mm would allow the oil to flow more freely in the initial movement, which I'm mentally translating into the smaller, early travel bumps we both have issues with. Does it sound like I've theorized this remotely close to reality?


The theory of the shims you stated is correct. They act as valves that restrict the flow of oil. As you apply more force to the shock, the oil pressure increases and the shims bend more to allow more oil flow. The tricky part is sorting out high vs low speed compression. This shock actually has a fairly weak stack and for me at least, has little low speed compression in the main stack. Although those sharp, smallish (<3") bumps might seem like "low speed", they actually require a high shock shaft velocity to absorb. This requires a shock that is able to flow large amounts of oil. It's my theory (and I'm FAR from an expert) that the gap to the backing plate is too small to allow proper flow.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

A very comprehensive reply that I opted not to quote due to its size. Let's just say, you're way more knowledgeable than I on this subject. But once I jump in, I'd keep at it until I had it exactly the way I want it. I just don't have the time to dedicate to it right now. Maybe after I retire fall of 2019.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

andrean said:


> I recently got a DVO Topaz for my V2 Juliana Roubion (same as SC Bronson) and thought it would be helpful for other light-weight riders (I'm 140lbs) to know the best set-up I've found, since I wasn't able to find this info on this thread or elsewhere. And literally, I've spent hours and hours lapping the same fast, rocky section of trail - making every adjustment mathematically possible to get the best shock feel I can.
> 
> When I first got it, I had contacted Ronnie at DVO about my initial struggles to make it feel good. He had me send it back for internal adjustments to the rebound and compression based on my weight. (And yes, they are AMAZING w customer service.) After getting it back, I've found that the best ride (smooth yet lively and allows you to drive with your feet) with VPP is with the can pumped to 150lbs, the bladder pumped to 165lbs, two spacers in the negative chamber, and 4 clicks of rebound. I AM using all of the travel, although I don't feel any harsh bottom out - but haven't totally cased anything with it, YET. That said, I'll likely put in a spacer in the positive side as well for some insurance. It rides real nice right now, is more lively than the Monarch RT3 M/M I previously had on it (plush but no playfullness, a dull ride although M/M tune is too high for me), also better than the DB Inline I had on it prior to that (felt similar to Monarch), and leaps and bounds better than the complete garbage Fox Float EVOL Performance that came stock on it (although I have the Float EVOL Factory "Roxy Tune" on my Mojo3 and it's awesome, so it could be that something was wrong with the EVOL Performance). I'll admit that I am a manic tinkerer for suspension perfection - but when nothing is made for your weight range, you kinda have to be. Anyhow, there is one shortcoming I've found with the Topaz: I wish the climb mode was firmer. The climb mode on the RS and Fox are awesome and make pedaling up so easy, while the Topaz gives more bob with a bit of a low-riding sluggish feel. It's not a deal-braker, especially since this is my "big-bike", but noticeable. All my climbs at home are up steep fire roads, so in other cases I may not notice so much. Fourth shock's a charm


I´m also 140ish and ride a Hightower which already needs a L/L tune on the monarch.

Before they tuned it for you, what was the problem? Was it too much compression even at full open and correct air pressure? what about the rebound? What did you feel was the difference after the tune?

I reached out to DVO about this... light rider on a bike with a need for a low/low tune. They told me the stock tune would be fine and give me enough adjustment. I´m not convinced, even less so after reading your post.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Besides the bladder what is the difference to something like the much cheaper Monarch Plus? On the monarch plus you can also change the piggyback pressure and add volume reducers to both positive and negative air chambers. RS does not mention this but you can do it just as easily.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

wenna said:


> Besides the bladder what is the difference to something like the much cheaper Monarch Plus? On the monarch plus you can also change the piggyback pressure and add volume reducers to both positive and negative air chambers. RS does not mention this but you can do it just as easily.


Assuming you are referring to the RC3 version of the Monarch, they have the same external adjustments. The Monarch can be purchased in several different tunes and different shim stacks can be purchased through SRAM instead of trying to configure your own.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

car_nut said:


> Assuming you are referring to the RC3 version of the Monarch, they have the same external adjustments. The Monarch can be purchased in several different tunes and different shim stacks can be purchased through SRAM instead of trying to configure your own.


I know you can get the RS in different tunes which I see as a big plus.

And just because RS doesn´t mention it you can adjust IFP pressure (as opposed to bladder perssure on DVO), and you can add volume reducers to the negative side.

Therefore my question is what makes the Topaz better than the RS Monarch? 
You even get more adjustability out of the Monarch given you can order it with different tunes. And the Monarch is just as easy to service and you can buy rebuild kits for it.

I´m not saying one is better than the other.....I´m just trying to figure out which one I should buy.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

wenna said:


> I know you can get the RS in different tunes which I see as a big plus.
> 
> And just because RS doesn´t mention it you can adjust IFP pressure (as opposed to bladder perssure on DVO), and you can add volume reducers to the negative side.
> 
> ...


I'm of the opinion that IFP pressure should be set sufficiently high to not allow the oil column to pull a vacuum behind the piston. DVO seems to have taken the approach of choking the compression flow and allowing that to happen as a means of dealing with sharp hits.

As to which you should buy? The one that is tuned most appropriately for you and your bike. That's unfortunately a difficult thing to answer. There are plenty of people happy with their Topaz and likewise with the RC3. From what I've seen of the internals, they're very similar and equally serviceable. I'm at the point where I just assume I'll be needing to play with shim stacks regardless. I think the RC3 is a much better base to begin with under that assumption. Places like Avalanche are guaranteed to give you a Monarch to your liking if you decide to throw some extra money at the situation as well. Counter to that is the fact you can call Ronnie up at DVO and talk through it in detail. I can guarantee that's not happening with SRAM.

So, unfortunately this is like you asking me what you should have for dinner tonight. I could tell you what I'd love, and you might agree. Or you might think it's the worst thing ever. Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I hope not to be a burden but I'm learning from you. When you say the backer only allows 0.5mm of lift, I'm not following you.


I grabbed a pic in hopes of better explaining this. You're looking at a side view of the piston with the compression shims and backer plate resting on top. The shims flex away from the piston to allow oil flow. The harder you push the damper rod, the further they flex, allowing more oil flow. Until they bend against the backer plate, at which point you now have a fixed orifice size for fluid flow. Once that happens, you've capped the ability of the piston to move oil.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> I grabbed a pic in hopes of better explaining this. You're looking at a side view of the piston with the compression shims and backer plate resting on top. The shims flex away from the piston to allow oil flow. The harder you push the damper rod, the further they flex, allowing more oil flow. Until they bend against the backer plate, at which point you now have a fixed orifice size for fluid flow. Once that happens, you've capped the ability of the piston to move oil.


Excellent post and picture. I had figured this out and had it pictured in my mind just as drawn. But the picture is worth a thousand words, or in my case, a few minutes of gears turning, smoke oozing out my ears, and finally a mental image.

So, in the image above, oil is attempting to come through the piston from the bottom as shown. It can't escape due to the largest diameter shim that completely caps off the valve ports. So the pressure builds until the shim flexes against the pressure. The largest diameter shim, which was 22mm, is the first to give. It has a 20mm shim sitting atop it adding rigidity to it which I'm assuming might only allow the 22mm to flex a tiny bit around the outside perimeter 1mm, the difference is diameter of the 22mm & the 20mm. But if enough pressure hits then the 20mm might give and allow the 22mm to flex even more. But understanding exactly how the stack works together in conjunction with shock movement and needs is maybe still vague. My guess is only small quick jolts only the larger shims sitting closest the the valve face have time to flex. But on say a hard landing from a drop where the pressure comes on hard and isn't over with a split second later, the pressure is great enough and at long enough of a duration that it could force most, if not all, of the shims to flex.

Have I analyzed this in my mind close to right? I'd love to know how things work out once you've toyed with stack adjustment.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

car_nut said:


> I'm of the opinion that IFP pressure should be set sufficiently high to not allow the oil column to pull a vacuum behind the piston. DVO seems to have taken the approach of choking the compression flow and allowing that to happen as a means of dealing with sharp hits.
> 
> As to which you should buy? The one that is tuned most appropriately for you and your bike. That's unfortunately a difficult thing to answer. There are plenty of people happy with their Topaz and likewise with the RC3. From what I've seen of the internals, they're very similar and equally serviceable. I'm at the point where I just assume I'll be needing to play with shim stacks regardless. I think the RC3 is a much better base to begin with under that assumption. Places like Avalanche are guaranteed to give you a Monarch to your liking if you decide to throw some extra money at the situation as well. Counter to that is the fact you can call Ronnie up at DVO and talk through it in detail. I can guarantee that's not happening with SRAM.
> 
> So, unfortunately this is like you asking me what you should have for dinner tonight. I could tell you what I'd love, and you might agree. Or you might think it's the worst thing ever. Sorry I can't give you a definitive answer.


Probably the best, least biased answer ever.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Excellent post and picture. I had figured this out and had it pictured in my mind just as drawn. But the picture is worth a thousand words, or in my case, a few minutes of gears turning, smoke oozing out my ears, and finally a mental image.
> 
> So, in the image above, oil is attempting to come through the piston from the bottom as shown. It can't escape due to the largest diameter shim that completely caps off the valve ports. So the pressure builds until the shim flexes against the pressure. The largest diameter shim, which was 22mm, is the first to give. It has a 20mm shim sitting atop it adding rigidity to it which I'm assuming might only allow the 22mm to flex a tiny bit around the outside perimeter 1mm, the difference is diameter of the 22mm & the 20mm. But if enough pressure hits then the 20mm might give and allow the 22mm to flex even more. But understanding exactly how the stack works together in conjunction with shock movement and needs is maybe still vague. My guess is only small quick jolts only the larger shims sitting closest the the valve face have time to flex. But on say a hard landing from a drop where the pressure comes on hard and isn't over with a split second later, the pressure is great enough and at long enough of a duration that it could force most, if not all, of the shims to flex.
> 
> Have I analyzed this in my mind close to right? I'd love to know how things work out once you've toyed with stack adjustment.


You are right there. The taper also reduces stress on the shims and allows finer tuning than a straight stack. In general (very general rule and impossible to say without modeling) a taper stack is more progressive.

http://www.shimrestackor.com/Code/Sample_Applications/Stack_Config/stack-config.htm

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Cary said:


> You are right there. The taper also reduces stress on the shims and allows finer tuning than a straight stack. In general (very general rule and impossible to say without modeling) a taper stack is more progressive.
> 
> ReStackor Users Manual
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


now you've simply outdone yourself with that link. I guess now I'll be forced to learn which end is high speed and low speed. The crossover shim looks like it might be an idea for me. A quick blow off for light stuff then firm back up for bigger longer duration hits.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

On the Topaz, I believe low speed is handled by the needle. Most who have tried tuning just do straight and tapered stacks, as it is virtually impossible to guess at creating a combined low and high speed stack. If you want to experiment, I would suggest starting with the same stack as stock and reduce shim thickness. That should decrease high speed and allow the stack to start opening earlier. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Cary said:


> On the Topaz, I believe low speed is handled by the needle. Most who have tried tuning just do straight and tapered stacks, as it is virtually impossible to guess at creating a combined low and high speed stack. *If you want to experiment, I would suggest starting with the same stack as stock and reduce shim thickness. That should decrease high speed and allow the stack to start opening earlier.*


Just my theory for now until parts arrive, but I believe the stock stack is actually pretty weak. My low tune RC3 had a considerably stiffer stack with similar oil weight. I haven't measured port sizes between the two yet, but they appear similar. The biggest difference I see is the minimal gap on the backer plate which means it's choked on high velocity hits. My criticism of how it rides agrees with this: lacks LSC with the piggy back open, feels like a port orifice Fox on big hits.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

car_nut said:


> Just my theory for now until parts arrive, but I believe the stock stack is actually pretty weak. My low tune RC3 had a considerably stiffer stack with similar oil weight. I haven't measured port sizes between the two yet, but they appear similar. The biggest difference I see is the minimal gap on the backer plate which means it's choked on high velocity hits. My criticism of how it rides agrees with this: lacks LSC with the piggy back open, feels like a port orifice Fox on big hits.


You have done more tuning than me, so I will defer to your experience. Anxious to see the results of your tuning. If in fact it is the piston limiting, lighter oil may be the solution.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Just my theory for now until parts arrive, but I believe the stock stack is actually pretty weak. My low tune RC3 had a considerably stiffer stack with similar oil weight. I haven't measured port sizes between the two yet, but they appear similar. The biggest difference I see is the minimal gap on the backer plate which means it's choked on high velocity hits. My criticism of how it rides agrees with this: lacks LSC with the piggy back open, feels like a port orifice Fox on big hits.


Port sizing computes to a surface area. The more surface area the ports have, the more square mm (area) the oil has to move through. Math is my strong point, second to my ignorance. LOL



Cary said:


> You have done more tuning than me, so I will defer to your experience. Anxious to see the results of your tuning. If in fact it is the piston limiting, lighter oil may be the solution.


I'll vouch for lighter oil not being a fix all. I started down that road going to Red Line Extra Light 2.5W, then down to their Like Water.  While it indeed improved the HSC/LSC complaints my Shockwiz had, it didn't completely fix the issue.


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

Why are you using a shockwiz? That is what a programmer decided is the correct settings. They don't ride your bike, you do. Tune the shock to the way you like it to ride, not what an overpriced gizmo tells you how it should ride.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Scotth72 said:


> Why are you using a shockwiz? That is what a programmer decided is the correct settings. They don't ride your bike, you do. Tune the shock to the way you like it to ride, not what an overpriced gizmo tells you how it should ride.


LOL, but I do agree. Yet I also think from my experience using the Shockwiz, racing MX, and dabbling in suspension tuning since the late '80s, that the Shockwiz has the same ideas that I have on what is good, bad, and feels right. I had my Topaz apart twice changing the oil to lower viscosity oil based on my personal feel. My first Shockwiz rides scored 92/96. I don't remember what is suggested I change but I have a spreadsheet that tracks it all. One minor adjustment and 96 was the norm with an occasional 100. I only bought the toy/tool because of my curiosity. It was worth the cost just for the entertainment value.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Well actually I did not ask which one to buy. I asked about the difference between the monarch and the topaz to help me with my decision.


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## hybris (Sep 30, 2015)

I'll vouch for lighter oil not being a fix all. I started down that road going to Red Line Extra Light 2.5W, then down to their Like Water. While it indeed improved the HSC/LSC complaints my Shockwiz had, it didn't completely fix the issue.[/QUOTE]

Recently installed a topaz on a Rocky Mt Instinct (2013) and have had about 5 rides on it thus far. While the suspension geometry of the RM is a little different to your Bronson I am tending towards somewhat similar shock setting as you. I feel that the LSC is a bit stiff and am wondering whether to try the Like Water of wait until some folk with a better understanding of suspension than me have settled on changes to the shim stack.
What aspect of the suspension are you aiming to improve by altering the shim stack compared to currently using Like Water ?

I am an intermediate rider, don't do big jumps or drops, and weigh about 160 lb.
Am only just starting to understand the finer points of suspension setup and this has been a great thread. Have read it all and the second half a couple of times.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Cary said:


> You have done more tuning than me, so I will defer to your experience. Anxious to see the results of your tuning. If in fact it is the *piston limiting*, lighter oil may be the solution.





IRBent said:


> *Port sizing *computes to a surface area. The more surface area the ports have, the more square mm (area) the oil has to move through. Math is my strong point, second to my ignorance. LOL


Sorry, I don't think I did a good job with my explanation before. The compression ports on the piston are pretty generous:

21mm major OD
2.5mm slot width
9.25mm center to center on slot (60 degree sweep center to center)
x3

That works out to a flow area of 86.7mm^2

IRBent, feel free to check my math. You can probably safely assume I'm wrong if you don't get the same answer as I 

However, you only get to use that area if the shims lift far enough to not be the primary restriction. There's a lot of fluid dynamics going on under a HSC event, but at a minimum the shim lift will need to give the same flow area as the ports if you want to reach maximum flow for the piston/stack assembly. So:

22mm OD shim x Pi x 1.25mm lift = 86.4 mm^2

The stack assembly on my shock at least is limited to 0.5mm of lift. Meaning it isn't opening nearly to its potential, resulting in choked flow under HSC events such at square edged hits.

For a comparison, here's my Topaz vs my previous Monarch Plus RC3:

*Topaz main piston compression stack:
*
22X.15
20X.15
18X.10
Backing plate

*2014 Monarch Plus RC3 main piston compression stack:
*22X.15 (Removing this one shim basically made it a "low" tune")
22X.15
20X.15
20X.15
18X.10
18X.10
11mm x 0.2 spacers
Backing plate


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

hybris said:


> I feel that the LSC is a bit stiff and am wondering whether to try the Like Water of wait until some folk with a better understanding of suspension than me have settled on changes to the shim stack.


Are you riding with the compression lever open? Can describe under what circumstance you feel the LSC is too stiff? Mine has decidedly little low speed compression with the lever open. The meager shim stack on the main piston agrees with that.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Piston Slotted Port Volume Calc:
> 
> 21mm major OD
> 2.5mm slot width
> ...


I edited your post to leave nothing but the math. Under the section above showing piston port volume calculations, you lost me in the numbers. 3 ports 2.5mm wide but the length of the ports isn't designated, just that they're at 60 degrees of separation. So I did not mess with or attempt to check the math there.

However I did look at the math on 1.25mm of lift, that you explain can't be reached due to the backer plate restriction.

The math works like this:
A 22mm diameter shim has an outside circumference of @ 69mm (Pi * D) in length if unfolded to a straight line. So it makes a rectangle 69mm long by 1.25mm tall.
The volume calc becomes 1.25*69 = @ 86mm^3


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

hybris said:


> Recently installed a topaz on a Rocky Mt Instinct (2013) and have had about 5 rides on it thus far. I feel that the LSC is a bit stiff and am wondering whether to try the Like Water of wait until some folk with a better understanding of suspension than me have settled on changes to the shim stack.
> What aspect of the suspension are you aiming to improve by altering the shim stack compared to currently using Like Water ?


I'm just now learning a tad about shim stacks and really know nothing yet. I do know that if I alter it that I can just as easily put it back stock if my changes don't fix my issue.

My problem is the rear at times feels like it's hanging up on a rock or root during successive hits. I've tried logic and reasoning to understand why and I keep coming up with the rebound is too slow. If the first few roots are butter and then the 4th or 5th hangs me up, I can only imagine the rear wheel didn't return back in time to allow the softer part of the suspension to do what it previously did on the first roots. So if I open my rebound knob a mush or two (because that damn thing don't click at all), when I go up a face of a jump the face preloads my rear enough to kick too much. I'm looking for a happy medium. Or maybe I just need to learn how to ride. Since you weigh less than me I'd suggest the Like Water as it might fix you're needs. Plus it's not too expensive and I ended up getting it from Amazon.

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BYK7NG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I edited your post to leave nothing but the math. Under the section above showing piston port volume calculations, you lost me in the numbers. 3 ports 2.5mm wide but the length of the ports isn't designated, just that they're at 60 degrees of separation. So I did not mess with or attempt to check the math there.
> 
> However I did look at the math on 1.25mm of lift, that you explain can't be reached due to the backer plate restriction. I'm thinking actual volume flow under the shim is well less than half of your calculation.
> I did the math based on the shim lifting 1.25mm and the shim opening at a 45 degree angle despite knowing the 20mm shim atop of it would force the 22mm shim to bend in an arc reducing the actual volume of oil flow possible. So even my calculation is a bit over estimated especially if the backer plate limits shim movement.
> ...


You're looking for flow port area, not volume. You're on the right track with one dimension being Pi * D. Then multiply that by the shim lift. This gives you the flow area at the periphery of the shim.

With that said, yes, that is a completely rudimentary approximation of what's going on. Yes, you have an angled shim on a flat face so you're reducing flow as you move away from the OD. It isn't at a 45 angle though, and the flow ports are 0.5mm inside of the shim OD though. What you also have going on is high velocity flow, through a port, making a right angle turn with no radius on the ID. The rough shim lift area also assumes constant flow on the whole diameter, which obviously isn't happening since there are three individual ports covering only ~1/2 the circumference. There's lots of literature out there that can explain it all far better than I. Cary I believe already referenced the ReStackor site which is quite good. They get into shim lift area here:
ReStackor Valve Port Flow Area

With all that said, yes this is only good for a rough approximation. I was just looking to throw some math at my guess as to what was choking flow. It appears to be the backer plate limiting shim lift. So, given that I didn't order any spacers with my original shim order, and my shims aren't coming now until next week, I decided to put it back together as follows:

2.5wt Redline
Shaft
Backer plate
*1mmx11mm spacer (this was on the rebound side)*
0.15x18]
0.15x20]> Compression stack
0.15x22]
Piston
0.1x16]
0.1x16] Rebound stack
Nut

The 1x11 spacer wasn't doing much functionally on the rebound side other than preventing the nut from distorting the shims while tightening it. The nut itself has an 11mm diameter spacer at it's base so it isn't being clamped with a hex. Everything else I left same as it was (1 pos band, 200 psi can) other than increasing the bladder pressure to 200psi from 180psi.

Results: Hilarious. I can get ~95% travel by standing and dropping my butt on the seat. As I guessed, the shim stack is ridiculously soft but wasn't flowing due to the backer plate. I'll probably start by almost doubling the stack and try to balance square edge/small bump compliance while dialing up low speed compression without involving the piggy back stack. Once that's sorted, I'll figure out bottoming as a mix of limiting shim lift and air can volume. I don't currently see any issues for me with either rebound or the LSC in the piggy back, but I'll dig into those last.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> You're looking for flow port area, not volume. You're on the right track with one dimension being Pi * D. Then multiply that by the shim lift. This gives you the flow area at the periphery of the shim.
> 
> The rough shim lift area also assumes constant flow on the whole diameter, which obviously isn't happening since there are three individual ports covering only ~1/2 the circumference. There's lots of literature out there that can explain it all far better than I. Cary I believe already referenced the ReStackor site which is quite good. They get into shim lift area here:
> ReStackor Valve Port Flow Area
> ...


I'm so sorry for my misunderstanding on the math and now totally follow the face area you mentioned. So you moved the 1mm thick washer from the rebound side to the compression stack side, using it as a spacer between the backer plate and the shim stack. I think you said originally the backer only allowed 0.5mm of lift. Now you have 3 times that, 1.5mm. This essentially moved the piston 1mm further into the bore too, right? I do see promise though now that you have 3 times as much room to add shims. I assume the more shims you have the more customization of the oil flow you'll have, right? Lastly, if I can delete my previous math post I will so it won't throw anybody off. If not, I'll edit it so much so that it won't disrupt those learning. As for the restacker site, I've yet to delve off into it other than looking at, and bookmarking the link he posted. My work is super stressful and my brain is like mush most of the time. Luckily I;ll be able to retire in less than 2 years.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut,

I truly appreciate you helping us better understand what you know, shim stack use and function. The internet is the best tool this old man ever used. Anything you want to learn can be found here rather than in a library card catalog index file. Way easier too.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

I´ve been following this thread with much interest.

From what I gather the shim stacks in the Topaz are very rudimentary so could someone explain to me how the Highspeed vs lowspeed compression and rebound works in this shock?

There are three shims in the compression stack, does that equate to one shim for low speed, one for mid speed and one for high speed?

If so... is a singel shim really enough to get seamless dynamic damping?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I see I'll need a valve puller to get the bladder apart. I can only find core removal tools. What do you use?


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Doug said:


> I see I'll need a valve puller to get the bladder apart. I can only find core removal tools. What do you use?


Haven´t been able to find one either so if I can purchase one that would be greate. If not I figured i would make one from an aluminum valve cap.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> Haven´t been able to find one either so if I can purchase one that would be greate. If not I figured i would make one from an aluminum valve cap.


Just use your shock pump. Screw the pump on after removing the internal C clip and pull on the hose fitting with a slight wiggle. I wouldn't suggest pulling on the hose exactly as it could cause damage to the pump hose if the bladder wants to be a pain.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

If I wanted to lighten the LSC would replacing the 0.15x22 shim to 0x10x22 give me that result? But would it also affect highspeed compression? 

Don´t know much about shim stacks but would reducing the shim thickness with 0.05 on one shim be considered a big step or small? (given it´s the face shim and only 3 shims in total it might be a huge step?)


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> If I wanted to lighten the LSC would replacing the 0.15x22 shim to 0x10x22 give me that result? But would it also affect highspeed compression?
> 
> Don´t know much about shim stacks but would reducing the shim thickness with 0.05 on one shim be considered a big step or small? (given it´s the face shim and only 3 shims in total it might be a huge step?)


While I personally can't answer your question, someone recently posted a link to a site called restacker. I haven't looked at it more than a few minutes but I think that site might be able to teach us more.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> Just use your shock pump. Screw the pump on after removing the internal C clip and pull on the hose fitting with a slight wiggle. I wouldn't suggest pulling on the hose exactly as it could cause damage to the pump hose if the bladder wants to be a pain.


Thanks, wasn't sure how much force it takes to get it out. I have a Lezyn tire pump with a thread on Schrader fitting. That should work well. I didn't want to get in there only to find out its such a tight fit I need a proper Schrader valve puller.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Thanks, wasn't sure how much force it takes to get it out. I have a Lezyn tire pump with a thread on Schrader fitting. That should work well. I didn't want to get in there only to find out its such a tight fit I need a proper Schrader valve puller.


I have their digital shock floor pump. I either used it or the stock Topaz pump to wiggle mine out.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

This is getting good!


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

IRBent said:


> While I personally can't answer your question, someone recently posted a link to a site called restacker. I haven't looked at it more than a few minutes but I think that site might be able to teach us more.


Unfortunately, it's software that you have to pay for ($83).

Been following this thread with interest! Some questions:

- What can be done, since the backer plate doesn't allow much lift? Is that "end of story"? Or can the plate be replaced or filed down?
- Can we increase the number of shims, or are we limited to the same total thickness of the original stack? For example, would it be possible to mimic the shim stack in the Monarch?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Porch said:


> Unfortunately, it's software that you have to pay for ($83).
> 
> Been following this thread with interest! Some questions:
> 
> ...


Did you read car_nut's post, post #726? He compares the Topaz shim stack to the Monarch before saying he was going to double the shim stack. My take is, you can alter it in any way you choose. I'm just not knowledgeable enough right now to do much more than trial and error adjustments. I don't have time for all that.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I think I ran across this DVO shim stack discussion maybe before I even bought my Topaz. It gives you a rudimentary idea how the stack works.

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/shim-stack-technology/


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

car_nut,

Your math is solid on comparing port area to the shutter area (created by shim lift). However, you are a making a big assumption that the shims are actually lifting high enough at the given shaft speeds to hit the backer and choke the flow. My point being, don't jump the gun until you've done the testing to support the theory. With that much port area and such a light stack, I not so sure your problem is from choking. Shock see 2.5-3 times less shaft speeds, due to the linkage, than forks.

Big ports with a light stack equal digressive damping curve.

I also wouldn't assume that the rebound stack is just a "check plate". That is a light stack, but with the dished piston stack stiffness can be greatly reduced. Those are also smaller od shims than the monarch uses on reb. Did you compare the port area of the reb versus the monarch +? I've got notes somewhere on the monarch piston.

Has anyone pulled the base valve out yet and looked at how the adjuster and piston are designed?


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## hybris (Sep 30, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Are you riding with the compression lever open? Can describe under what circumstance you feel the LSC is too stiff? Mine has decidedly little low speed compression with the lever open. The meager shim stack on the main piston agrees with that.


Sag 30% and comp lever open. Those two adjustments have summed up the extent of my suspension tuning to date. But I am learning heaps here and keen to tweak the topaz to get the most out of it. 
I am feeling a bit more low speed chatter than I was expecting. Maybe I am expecting too much. Its feeling way more playful than my previous setup and am happy with that.
Presumably body weight and the compression curve for our respective bikes will affect the ride of our bikes


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## hybris (Sep 30, 2015)

IRBent said:


> I'm just now learning a tad about shim stacks and really know nothing yet. I do know that if I alter it that I can just as easily put it back stock if my changes don't fix my issue.
> 
> My problem is the rear at times feels like it's hanging up on a rock or root during successive hits. I've tried logic and reasoning to understand why and I keep coming up with the rebound is too slow. If the first few roots are butter and then the 4th or 5th hangs me up, I can only imagine the rear wheel didn't return back in time to allow the softer part of the suspension to do what it previously did on the first roots. So if I open my rebound knob a mush or two (because that damn thing don't click at all), when I go up a face of a jump the face preloads my rear enough to kick too much. I'm looking for a happy medium. Or maybe I just need to learn how to ride. Since you weigh less than me I'd suggest the Like Water as it might fix you're needs. Plus it's not too expensive and I ended up getting it from Amazon.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B004BYK7NG/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Appreciate the reply. Still have my old tired Fox 32 on the front. Have a new Diamond sitting in a box awaiting spokes for a front wheel rebuild. Will get a better feel for the Topaz when I have good sus front and rear.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

hybris said:


> have a new diamond sitting in a box awaiting spokes for a front wheel rebuild. Will get a better feel for the topaz when i have good sus front and rear.


sweet!!


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

car_nut said:


> Pulled my Topaz apart. Shims and oil due today. Not sure what my plan is yet, but my goodness is this a rudimentary shim stack compared to my Monarch Plus.
> 
> EDIT: Just to keep all the info in this one post, I'll edit here to add any other relevant info.
> 
> ...


Curious about the rebound shims being dished. Are the directions of the two shims dished with each other, against each other or away from each other?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Thanks for chiming in!


ktm520 said:


> car_nut,
> 
> Your math is solid on comparing port area to the shutter area (created by shim lift). However, you are a making a big assumption that the shims are actually lifting high enough at the given shaft speeds to hit the backer and choke the flow. My point being, don't jump the gun until you've done the testing to support the theory. With that much port area and such a light stack, I not so sure your problem is from choking. Shock see 2.5-3 times less shaft speeds, due to the linkage, than forks.


Understood. I wasn't happy with the performance I was getting under high shaft speeds, and the issue after disassembly clearly wasn't an overly stiff stack. Intuitively, there's no way they could be selling this with that light of a stack and NOT be purposefully limiting lift. I certainly got what I was looking for by spacing the backer plate, so now I can work on firming up the stack and (hopefully) getting something closer to what I want.



ktm520 said:


> I also wouldn't assume that the rebound stack is just a "check plate". That is a light stack, but with the dished piston stack stiffness can be greatly reduced. Those are also smaller od shims than the monarch uses on reb. Did you compare the port area of the reb versus the monarch +? I've got notes somewhere on the monarch piston.


Gotcha. Yes, if you have the Monarch Plus rebound port sizes, it would be greatly appreciated. I measured 3 x 2mm ID for the Topaz.



ktm520 said:


> Has anyone pulled the base valve out yet and looked at how the adjuster and piston are designed?


I pulled it and inspected it, but left it alone for now. Typical affair:

Tapered needle poppet actuated by the compression lever
Open position allows flow to bypass the stack through the center shaft
Two shims for the compression side of the stack


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

IRBent said:


> So you moved the 1mm thick washer from the rebound side to the compression stack side, using it as a spacer between the backer plate and the shim stack. I think you said originally the backer only allowed 0.5mm of lift. Now you have 3 times that, 1.5mm. This essentially moved the piston 1mm further into the bore too, right?


Yep!



IRBent said:


> I do see promise though now that you have 3 times as much room to add shims. I assume the more shims you have the more customization of the oil flow you'll have, right?


Shims could have been added without the spacer, up until the point where the nut doesn't fit on the shaft. You just grow the stack altogether. The spacer just gave the shims room to move. Yes, you change the damping curve with the shims, assuming no other portions of the flow path become restricted.



IRBent said:


> Lastly, if I can delete my previous math post I will so it won't throw anybody off. If not, I'll edit it so much so that it won't disrupt those learning.


I wouldn't worry about it, but whatever you feel most comfortable with



IRBent said:


> As for the restacker site, I've yet to delve off into it other than looking at, and bookmarking the link he posted. My work is super stressful and my brain is like mush most of the time. Luckily I;ll be able to retire in less than 2 years.


Sorry. Hopefully a relaxing and long retirement comes soon for you. Tinkering with this stuff is soothing to me, so this helps with my work stress a bit. Riding does more though!



IRBent said:


> car_nut,
> I truly appreciate you helping us better understand what you know, shim stack use and function. The internet is the best tool this old man ever used. Anything you want to learn can be found here rather than in a library card catalog index file. Way easier too.


The internet is an amazingly powerful tool! My kids literally can't even comprehend what it used to be like having to go perform actual library research. Now, I can have as obscure as a random component fail deep within my car, and there's a 95% chance I'll find a Youtube video of someone documenting the entire repair procedure.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

wenna said:


> I´ve been following this thread with much interest.
> 
> There are three shims in the compression stack, does that equate to one shim for low speed, one for mid speed and one for high speed?


Nope, they all work together and impact low speed and high speed compression. You stack different numbers and thicknesses of shims together, and they create an overall stiffness that bends under oil pressure. The reason for using progressively smaller shims is because it lessens the likelihood of fatiguing the shims and gives you a little different shape to the damping curve vs them all being the same diameter.

Targeting just low speed or high speed compression is difficult. The Topaz does have the additional stack in the piggy back that targets low speed, but I believe you mentioned wanting to decrease LSC. Perhaps you answered and I missed it, but are you riding with the lever open? And what specifically is the riding issue you're looking to resolve? A lot of times people think LSC is what's causing the issue when in fact it is HSC.



wenna said:


> If I wanted to lighten the LSC would replacing the 0.15x22 shim to 0x10x22 give me that result? But would it also affect highspeed compression?
> 
> Don´t know much about shim stacks but would reducing the shim thickness with 0.05 on one shim be considered a big step or small? (given it´s the face shim and only 3 shims in total it might be a huge step?)


Thickness is a big driver of shim stiffness. For the same diameter, three 0.10 shims would give similar performance to one 0.15 shim. It'll have a big impact, but again, depends on what shaft speeds you're actually looking to adjust. At "pedal bob" shaft speeds, back feed through the rebound shutter has a bigger effect than the main piston.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> Nope, they all work together and impact low speed and high speed compression. You stack different numbers and thicknesses of shims together, and they create an overall stiffness that bends under oil pressure. The reason for using progressively smaller shims is because it lessens the likelihood of fatiguing the shims and gives you a little different shape to the damping curve vs them all being the same diameter.
> 
> Targeting just low speed or high speed compression is difficult. The Topaz does have the additional stack in the piggy back that targets low speed, but I believe you mentioned wanting to decrease LSC. Perhaps you answered and I missed it, but are you riding with the lever open? And what specifically is the riding issue you're looking to resolve? A lot of times people think LSC is what's causing the issue when in fact it is HSC.
> 
> Thickness is a big driver of shim stiffness. For the same diameter, three 0.10 shims would give similar performance to one 0.15 shim. It'll have a big impact, but again, depends on what shaft speeds you're actually looking to adjust. At "pedal bob" shaft speeds, back feed through the rebound shutter has a bigger effect than the main piston.


car_nut,

Where did you learn all of this stuff? Learning is not an issue for me, but remembering is. I have to understand how things works before I can begin to remember them. When taking trig back in the day, I'd come home from my 3-11 job and open the books while the house was quiet. At times, especially in Chemistry and occasionally in Trig, I'd read that paragraph over and over, dead tired, trying to understand what it was saying. I'd give up and go to bed only to dream the solution. There were several times I'd get up the next morning and write the problem down and work it out like I dreamed it. While I dreamt about shim stack adjustment last night, I still haven't learned enough to work out the solution in my head.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

car_nut said:


> Nope, they all work together and impact low speed and high speed compression. You stack different numbers and thicknesses of shims together, and they create an overall stiffness that bends under oil pressure. The reason for using progressively smaller shims is because it lessens the likelihood of fatiguing the shims and gives you a little different shape to the damping curve vs them all being the same diameter.
> 
> Targeting just low speed or high speed compression is difficult. The Topaz does have the additional stack in the piggy back that targets low speed, but I believe you mentioned wanting to decrease LSC. Perhaps you answered and I missed it, but are you riding with the lever open? And what specifically is the riding issue you're looking to resolve? A lot of times people think LSC is what's causing the issue when in fact it is HSC.


I actually had this image in my mind when brainstorming about the Low- to Highspeed compression.









I don´t own a Topaz yet, but doing my research before deciding on what shock to purchase. I´m only 141 lbs riding a Hightower which needs a light tune as it is, so I figure if I buy the Topaz I´ll have to do some shimming. So I might as well try to learn this stuff 

Did not know about the Shim stack in the piggyback. Does anyone have access to an exploded view of the Topaz?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

wenna said:


> I don´t own a Topaz yet, but doing my research before deciding on what shock to purchase. I´m only 141 lbs riding a Hightower which needs a light tune as it is, so I figure if I buy the Topaz I´ll have to do some shimming. So I might as well try to learn this stuff
> 
> Did not know about the Shim stack in the piggyback. Does anyone have access to an exploded view of the Topaz?


FYI, the Topaz was tested on a Hightower in development. One guy was around 200lbs but I also know Bryson Martin Jr rides (or has ridden) the Hightower/Topaz combo and looks to be close to your weight. They could likely give you tips on how to reshim or other ways to tune it.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

wenna said:


> I actually had this image in my mind when brainstorming about the Low- to Highspeed compression.
> 
> View attachment 1164569
> 
> ...


That is a crossover stack. They are extremely hard to tune without a dyno and/or tuning software. Unless you are extremely knowledgable, you are better off starting from the stock stack and making tweeks.

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## hybris (Sep 30, 2015)

car_nut said:


> I believe you mentioned wanting to decrease LSC. Perhaps you answered and I missed it, but are you riding with the lever open? And what specifically is the riding issue you're looking to resolve? A lot of times people think LSC is what's causing the issue when in fact it is HSC.


That was possibly me and certainly includes me. Feel more trail chatter than I was expecting but maybe I was expecting too much. Have re-read the last 2 pages and now see what you mean about likely being the HSC. With greater minds than mine working on this I think I will sit back and watch to see what you come up with. I don't feel that this is affecting my riding unduly.
Appreciate the ability to share and solve such first world problems on this forum.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Well I was about to purchase an X2 but given the price and the complicated home service procedure I took a chance and ordered a Topaz. Should be here by the end of the week.

At 141 lbs on a Hightower DVO recommended me to start out with no volume spacers and 185 psi in both main and bladder.

By the way.... what´s up with the DVO rider forum? There´s like no activity there at all, and no questions gets answered. Seems like mtbr is the best forum for any brand.


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## zweigelt (Jul 8, 2008)

I (165lbs dressed to ride in Winter Temperatures) got a Topaz for my YT Jeffsy 29 and i am not 100% satisfied with the Topaz...

my last Setup:
165-170 psi Main, 175 psi Piggy, 2 "klicks" from open Rebound(dep. on temperature). 2 Negative Volume Spacer(with 0-1 Spacers i had to run to much pressure, can not use the travel)

My Problems:

i wish a more "lock out" from the closed Compression Lever. Sadly i have a permanent pedal bob i did not had with my Monarch RCT 3....

Is it able to fix this for me bothersome Issue?

Thanks for your help!


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

zweigelt said:


> I (165lbs dressed to ride in Winter Temperatures) got a Topaz for my YT Jeffsy 29 and i am not 100% satisfied with the Topaz...
> 
> my last Setup:
> 165-170 psi Main, 175 psi Piggy, 2 "klicks" from open Rebound(dep. on temperature). 2 Negative Volume Spacer(with 0-1 Spacers i had to run to much pressure, can not use the travel)
> ...


I believe DVO recommends the starting pressure be your weight + 35psi. You're definitely too low on air pressure right now. I'd go up to 200psi and start there.

I would remove both negative spacers and install 1 positive spacer, just for starters.


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## ijak (Jan 5, 2017)

zweigelt said:


> I (165lbs dressed to ride in Winter Temperatures) got a Topaz for my YT Jeffsy 29 and i am not 100% satisfied with the Topaz...
> 
> my last Setup:
> 165-170 psi Main, 175 psi Piggy, 2 "klicks" from open Rebound(dep. on temperature). 2 Negative Volume Spacer(with 0-1 Spacers i had to run to much pressure, can not use the travel)
> ...


My understanding is that jeffsy has a very progressive suspension which means you really don't need spacer in positive. That aside give 1 spacer in negative a try....air up to 30% sag (run your "too much pressure" psi) and tinker with the piggyback psi eg. 170 instead of 175.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Porch said:


> I believe DVO recommends the starting pressure be your weight + 35psi. You're definitely too low on air pressure right now. I'd go up to 200psi and start there.
> 
> I would remove both negative spacers and install 1 positive spacer, just for starters.


That won't help, he will need to run even more pressure and not be able to use all the travel, the reason he is using the settings he has arrived up. The YT has a lot of progression in its suspension rate, so wants a linear shock. It also has less anti squat than many modern bikes, so is more prone to bobbing.

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2016/04/young-talent-jeffsy-2016.html

To the OP, how much sag are you running? With the Jeffsey, you will never get rid of all the bob without a shock that has a ton of low speed compression. You will then run into issues with the shock not blowing off with small bumps and feeling harsh.

With the Topaz, you would have to see about reshiming, I would call DVO. You could send the stock shock to Avalanche and ask craig to tune it to keep the platform, but blow off a bit easier.

There is another option. Don't get too caught up in the fact the bike bobs a little. They all do, the YT a bit more than many other new bikes (and way less than bikes 10 years ago). I have spent time on my friends Jeffsey with no platform (Monarch R) and it bobs a little, but not horribly. The tradeoff is the bike is very active going downhill and brakes well descending.

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## zweigelt (Jul 8, 2008)

@all 
thank you for your help and sorry about my bad english its not my first language! 
I know about the progressive leverage ratio of my Jeffsy and think i got a well working basic setting for downhill...
sometimes, mostly on cold days, i find the LSR could be a little less pronounced, On days <8°C (46F) i have to run it 1-2 klicks open. Maybe this could be a Problem on real cold Winterdays. Thinking about the "like Water" Fluid. 

In "open" Compression Lever this shock works absolute great, and give me a planted secure feel. 
I never had disturbing bob issues before my swap to the Topaz, no matter running 25-30% Sag. 

@cary
i am living in Switzerland, staying in Contact with my dealer. He thinks reshimming is the last way to solve this issue... i think it is my next way! 

Very helpfull Thread and Forum! Thank you for a second thought!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

zweigelt said:


> @all
> thank you for your help and sorry about my bad english its not my first language!


Your English is excellent.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I just wanted to give some input and keep the stoke in this thread going.

*My info:*
Rider: 190lbs geared
Bike: 2017 Santacruz Hightower (135mm travel) 29r setup
Skill Level: Advanced
Riding Location: Southern California
Riding Type: Agressive, Steeps, All Mountain, Laguna Chunk, XC Pedalathons

*Topaz Setup (So Far):*
-Main Can Air Pressure - 215
-Bladder Air Pressure - 183-185
-Positive Chamber Bands - 3
-Negative Chamber Bands - 1
-Run mostly in Medium Compression
-Rebound - Approx 4 clicks in from full fast
-200x51mm stroke (not long shocked)
-Shock run in 29r setting or Low BB setting 
-Approx 35% sag. Sag indicator still on the DVO logo with about an o-rings width left

*Topaz Impressions:*
I've had the Topaz on my bike for about 100ish miles. I've done 1 park day on it at Snow Summit and generally rides trails that must people would consider shuttle worthy, although I pedal my way to the top. I've also do and have done plenty of 3-5k climbing trail riding days with this setup.

The topaz is a decent fit for the hightower. I've played with the settings and settled on a progressive setup as this bike has a slightly progressive spring curve (13-15%). I run the shock in the medium setting for the most part. I find that the open setting has far too much blow by of the LSC circuit and leads to the bike riding too low in it's travel. There isn't a huge difference in feel between the medium and firm compression settings in terms of pedaling performance and platform. I don't really notice the difference until I'm hammering a really harsh section with repeated baby head sized hits.

I've tried all sorts of band setups and I think that for pedaling and for a pure trail bike feel (stiff pedaling platform) the shock works best on this frame with a 3+/2- volume reducer setup. That being said, the 2 reducers in the negative band give just a bit of harshness and accentuate the pedal kick back that VPP is known (and sometimes hated) for. Overall it doesn't bother me too much, but the platform tradeoff isn't worth the hit to pedaling performance.

Regarding compression settings... open is way too wallowy. You can immediately tell that the open setting is purely bypassing the LSC circuit. This really isn't a setting that works on the hightower for me. IT provides some nice progression to this frame (which has very little) but that compression is coming from sending the shock deep into the stroke and the air spring overcoming the rebound circuit. Overall, not worth it to me. I definitely feel like the stock tune on this shock is a close match to the hightower for my weight, but I'm sure there would be some gains to be made in the shim stack.

I think i'm generally happy with the shock. Part of me wonders what might have been if I would have gotten the x2. However, this shock certainly has gotten me to a happy point when compared to the stock monarch. Overall I'm happy with the performance. The back of hte bike still feels a bit harsh on high speed chatter but I'm thinking that's more a function of the frame then the shock.

I'm considering giving a lighter weight oil a try so that I can go back and forth between the medium and firm setting. I'm not at all interested in a lockout and I've got some clicks left on the rebound adjuster so I think a thinner oil is worth a shot.

What weight and brand oil are people going to for a lighter weight in this thing?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> I think i'm generally happy with the shock. Part of me wonders what might have been if I would have gotten the x2. However, this shock certainly has gotten me to a happy point when compared to the stock monarch. Overall I'm happy with the performance. The back of hte bike still feels a bit harsh on high speed chatter but I'm thinking that's more a function of the frame then the shock.
> 
> I'm considering giving a lighter weight oil a try so that I can go back and forth between the medium and firm setting. I'm not at all interested in a lockout and I've got some clicks left on the rebound adjuster so I think a thinner oil is worth a shot.
> 
> What weight and brand oil are people going to for a lighter weight in this thing?


Call DVO. They are right here in SoCal and probably ride the same trail conditions as you. The testing was also done with a rider about your size on a Hightower. So they would have some very first hand information about tuning for you, your bike, and these trails.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

minimusprime said:


> Regarding compression settings... open is way too wallowy. You can immediately tell that the open setting is purely bypassing the LSC circuit. This really isn't a setting that works on the hightower for me. IT provides some nice progression to this frame (which has very little) but that compression is coming from sending the shock deep into the stroke and the air spring overcoming the rebound circuit. Overall, not worth it to me. I definitely feel like the stock tune on this shock is a close match to the hightower for my weight, but I'm sure there would be some gains to be made in the shim stack.
> 
> I think i'm generally happy with the shock. Part of me wonders what might have been if I would have gotten the x2. However, this shock certainly has gotten me to a happy point when compared to the stock monarch. Overall I'm happy with the performance. The back of hte bike still feels a bit harsh on high speed chatter but I'm thinking that's more a function of the frame then the shock.
> 
> ...


Thanks for a really good and informative review.
So do you think the LSC in the open position would be better suited for a lighter rider on the HT?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

wenna said:


> Thanks for a really good and informative review.
> So do you think the LSC in the open position would be better suited for a lighter rider on the HT?


I definitely think that the open position would work for a lighter rider. The only caveat to that I could see is that the open setting seems to provide very little (if any) pedal (LSC) platform. I think depending on frame, this generally isn't an issue. The industry seems to have anti-squat characteristics and kimeatics relatively down at this point. I think there are however some frames out there (very progressive single pivots) that might not respond well to this at all. Those frames tend to rely on the digressive shock tunes to create the pedaling platform.

I think I would really spend time playing with the volume reducers with the shock in both open and medium and find what I felt was the best compromise setup. If further tuning is required from there, I'd contact DVO about either a lighter weight oil or a lighter compression tune. Ideally, you'd have a proper LSC shim stack doing work with a proper blow off to your liking. The open setting is more or less, operating like a port orifice damping setup. There isn't a huge problem with this provided you happen to fall within the exact window where the oil flow through the bypass (open compression) circuit works for your weight and your frame.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> I definitely think that the open position would work for a lighter rider. The only caveat to that I could see is that the open setting seems to provide very little (if any) pedal (LSC) platform. I think depending on frame, this generally isn't an issue. The industry seems to have anti-squat characteristics and kimeatics relatively down at this point. I think there are however some frames out there (very progressive single pivots) that might not respond well to this at all. Those frames tend to rely on the digressive shock tunes to create the pedaling platform.
> 
> I think I would really spend time playing with the volume reducers with the shock in both open and medium and find what I felt was the best compromise setup. If further tuning is required from there, I'd contact DVO about either a lighter weight oil or a lighter compression tune. Ideally, you'd have a proper LSC shim stack doing work with a proper blow off to your liking. The open setting is more or less, operating like a port orifice damping setup. There isn't a huge problem with this provided you happen to fall within the exact window where the oil flow through the bypass (open compression) circuit works for your weight and your frame.


The Topaz does seem to rely more heavily on frame kinematics for anti-bob than a Fox for example. Even in the "climb" mode it isn't nearly as stiff as other shocks I've used on my Tallboy LTc. I had the Float Boost and it had a very stiff "climb" mode. The rest of the time the bike wallowed badly. The Topaz climb mode is much more active, however I like it like that. I rarely want it close to locked out. I much prefer to have a true "open" that is for fast aggressive riding, a middle "trail" for some LSC but stiff feels great, and then a "climb" that adds some LSC but still keeps it active for the rough stuff on the climb...and for when I forget to change it and head back down or on a flatter section.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Having a few rides on my Topaz, along with my son riding his, here are my my comments:

Bikes- Turner Burner (both). The Burner has a pretty progressive leverage ratio (3.3-2.45). Both run Diamonds on the front. 

Me- 235 pounds, decent rider, can ride most stuff at Northstar comfortably, expert runs at Whistler, no pro lines, no big jumps. Prefer tech over fast. 

Him- 170 pounds, 13yo Cat 2 downhill racer. Rides everything like he stole it when going down. Hits all the hip jumps and plows through the chunky stuff like it is a flow trail. 

Setup:

Me- 1.5 bands negative, none positive. 270 psi main, 190 bladder, 3 clicks in rebound. Approx 30% sag.

Him- 1 band negative, none positive. 195 main, 175 bladder, 2 clicks in rebound. Approx 30% sag. 

Both of us were previously running Manitou McLeod's in the rear with King Cans. 

Thoughts: 

The Topaz has really strong midstroke support and is not as plush as the McLeod (which was like a Cadillac in the chunk). The better midstroke support results in a bike that is much more active feeling and wants to pop off the ground easier. The shock is not harsh, but just as we both found comparing the Mattoc to Diamond, feels better the harder you push it, where the Mattoc/McLeod feel good at all speeds, but have a bit of a dead feeling. 

The low speed compression adjust works great on the Burner's, which have pretty good antisquat so don't want a lot of low speed compression to begin with. Open the bikes climb well, with it in the middle or locked out, what little bob there is, is reduced further. I could see for bikes that have less antisquat (less than 100%) where a rider would want more low speed compression dampening. 

Conclusion:

I have observed a common them across DVO products, from my Emerald, to the Diamond, to the Topaz. All of them want to be ridden hard and are tuned for pretty aggressive riders. At slow speeds, they don't feel great, but feel better and better the harder you push them. They have the active feel of a Fox, but not the harshness, and better mid travel support, without the huge ramp up at the end. The Manitou stuff is just tuned differently, eating everything up without complaint, feeling confident no matter how fast or slow you ride, but a bit dead feeling in comparison.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Doug said:


> The Topaz does seem to rely more heavily on frame kinematics for anti-bob than a Fox for example. Even in the "climb" mode it isn't nearly as stiff as other shocks I've used on my Tallboy LTc. I had the Float Boost and it had a very stiff "climb" mode. The rest of the time the bike wallowed badly. The Topaz climb mode is much more active, however I like it like that. I rarely want it close to locked out. I much prefer to have a true "open" that is for fast aggressive riding, a middle "trail" for some LSC but stiff feels great, and then a "climb" that adds some LSC but still keeps it active for the rough stuff on the climb...and for when I forget to change it and head back down or on a flatter section.


I agree to a point. I'm not a fan of the whole open setting with complete LSC shim stack bypass thing that this industry does. I feel that is a bandaid in order to accomplish two tasks: 1) pass the "this feels so plush" parking lot test, 2) make the shock kinda/sorta work on bikes with high antisquat and agressive kinematics or light riders on any/all bikes.

In reality, I can't think of a situation where you'd want a port orifice bypass of the LSC shim stack. You would want that if you can't get an optimum compression tune on the shock. I get why MFG's do both of the above. 1) it's hard to sell products and educate consumers on what a bike should feel like in the parking lot vs on the trail. This sentiment is echoed above by Cary where he says that the shock likes to be ridden hard. This is pretty typical of a digressive damping curve. You want the shock firm enough on LSC to resist rider inputs from braking and pedaling, but blow off to dampen hits to the suspension while riding. Typically, I've found that the right damping for the trail feels over damped in the parking lot and makes the bike feel muted. The solution to this was introduced by fox with the CTD which was essentially made to combat this exact phenomenon. I digress, it's a reality of where the industry is at so i don't fault dvo for it. However, I find that there is generally an ideal shim/damping setup for a given frame and I don't feel like it varies too much from a descending to ascending setup. The bike wants what it wants with my weight on it and it doesn't really care what it's doing at the given time.

The second aspect is again, a reality of making aftermarket products and the compromises you have to make to sell a product that fits a wide range. Ideally, all of us should be on a custom tune for our weight and bikes characteristics. That's totally un-reasonable so we end up with what we got with the Topaz.

I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't ever completely bypass the LSC shim stack. If you have to do so, it's essentially a bandaid to avoid a custom shim stack tune. While it should never work and it doesn't on paper, often, for whatever reason, a lot of bikes feel fine when operated like this.

Ok I'm rambling... I don't see much of a purpose for my usage to the fully open circuit. I would rather have 3 different compression settings (3 different shim pre-loads) that are all usable and all utilize the LSC circuit instead of 2 that do and 1 that bypasses. I don't have a need for lockouts and I don't see a need for them with current bike designs in general, but many consumers want them.

I see why DVO made the choices they did and if I were working for them, I would have agreed with their approach.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

minimusprime said:


> I agree to a point. I'm not a fan of the whole open setting with complete LSC shim stack bypass thing that this industry does. I feel that is a bandaid in order to accomplish two tasks: 1) pass the "this feels so plush" parking lot test, 2) make the shock kinda/sorta work on bikes with high antisquat and agressive kinematics or light riders on any/all bikes.
> 
> In reality, I can't think of a situation where you'd want a port orifice bypass of the LSC shim stack. You would want that if you can't get an optimum compression tune on the shock. I get why MFG's do both of the above. 1) it's hard to sell products and educate consumers on what a bike should feel like in the parking lot vs on the trail. This sentiment is echoed above by Cary where he says that the shock likes to be ridden hard. This is pretty typical of a digressive damping curve. You want the shock firm enough on LSC to resist rider inputs from braking and pedaling, but blow off to dampen hits to the suspension while riding. Typically, I've found that the right damping for the trail feels over damped in the parking lot and makes the bike feel muted. The solution to this was introduced by fox with the CTD which was essentially made to combat this exact phenomenon. I digress, it's a reality of where the industry is at so i don't fault dvo for it. However, I find that there is generally an ideal shim/damping setup for a given frame and I don't feel like it varies too much from a descending to ascending setup. The bike wants what it wants with my weight on it and it doesn't really care what it's doing at the given time.
> 
> ...


So you want a McLeod. No low speed needle. Everything is handled through the stack on the piston, with the IPA controlling stack preload. It is an amazing shock for an inline, but not nearly as easy to service as a Topaz. The design appears virtually identical to the internals that Avalanche uses when Craig modifies inline shocks.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

minimusprime said:


> I just wanted to give some input and keep the stoke in this thread going.
> 
> *My info:*
> Rider: 190lbs geared
> ...


Minimus,

Your opinion and experience sounds much like mine. I ride most of the time with the compression lever wide open but pedal strikes were the norm, especially before I went to 2 negative tuning bands. The second band helps support me on the small stuff and allows me to run a tad less air pressure in the can. The lower air can pressure helps reduce low speed kickback when hitting rocks/roots especially while seated. At least that's my experience and whether or not the same as pedal kickback I don't know. Running the compression lever in the middle position offers me a better pedaling platform, reduces pedal strikes further and is all around best for me except when headed downhill. I Open 'er up then.

You weigh 5-10 pounds more and ride the HT whereas I'm on a 2015 Bronson. I've been running the 3+/2- band setup but my pressures are a tad different. 
My air can is at 182-184psi, about what I weigh with gear.
The bladder is @ 170psi, about my weight in the raw.
My rebound is set to 3-4 clicks from wide open.

My only complaint has been the occasional packing I get after successive hits where the rear wheel feels like it's getting hung up. This causes a loss of momentum and at times gives me a feeling of nearly going OTB.

Ronnie at DVO worked with me early on with shock oil questions. Let me see if I can give you a run down on what I think I learned.
Stock oil is supposedly Pro Circuit PC-02 2.5W (which I think is rebadged Showa SS-25). Since I wanted a more active shock Ronnie suggested I try Driven SHX, but I couldn't find any literature stating what its viscosity was. So I opted to use Red Line Extra Light 2.5W on my first change. I eventually went even lower using the Red Line Like Water.
The stock oil supposedly has viscosity of [email protected]/[email protected] 
Red Line Extra Light 2.5W viscosity is [email protected]/[email protected]
Red Line Like Water has a viscosity of [email protected]/[email protected]

After dropping down to the Like Water my Shockwiz occasionally claims I need FIRMER or SOFTER HSC which appears to due to the air pressure in the main can, 182psi vs 184psi. I still have those occasional hang ups where the rear tire doesn't feel like it's recovering in time for the next hit. Ronnie suggested I remove one of the 2 shims on the rebound stack. But I may try opening the rebound knob a click or two more first since I still have at least 3 left to use. Bottom line, I do feel the Red Line Like Water oil helped reduce the dreaded over damped situation on the HSC side as well as allows the shock to be more active.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

So, I had ordered a bunch of shims to begin playing with this. They were then lost by FedEx and it took two weeks before they would acknowledge them as officially lost. Grrrr. In the meantime, I had ordered some spacers and have been playing with those. I basically dialed the compression damping back to almost zero and still wasn't happy. If I deccreased sag from 30% to 20% the small bump/square edge performance was spot on for what I wanted. I could tune it to use full travel with no bands, but everything in the middle was terrible. It basically rode like an 80mm travel XC bike on everything but 2ft drops.

With that, I basically reached the conclusion that this shock isn't suited for me/my bike/my trails. It was fantastic on 20mph downhills, but that represents about a minute worth of fun on a typical 2hr ride for me. 

So, that, combined with the shims being lost, and coming across an OEM medium/low tune Monarch RC3, led me to decide I'm going back to what I'm familiar with. One ride in and I've confirmed it's better suited to what I'm after. If anyone is interested in a 200x57 Topaz kit, I'll be putting it up on the classifieds shortly.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

car_nut said:


> So, I had ordered a bunch of shims to begin playing with this. They were then lost by FedEx and it took two weeks before they would acknowledge them as officially lost. Grrrr. In the meantime, I had ordered some spacers and have been playing with those. I basically dialed the compression damping back to almost zero and still wasn't happy. If I deccreased sag from 30% to 20% the small bump/square edge performance was spot on for what I wanted. I could tune it to use full travel with no bands, but everything in the middle was terrible. It basically rode like an 80mm travel XC bike on everything but 2ft drops.
> 
> With that, I basically reached the conclusion that this shock isn't suited for me/my bike/my trails. It was fantastic on 20mph downhills, but that represents about a minute worth of fun on a typical 2hr ride for me.
> 
> So, that, combined with the shims being lost, and coming across an OEM medium/low tune Monarch RC3, led me to decide I'm going back to what I'm familiar with. One ride in and I've confirmed it's better suited to what I'm after. If anyone is interested in a 200x57 Topaz kit, I'll be putting it up on the classifieds shortly.


Just curious but what bike did you have this on.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

IRBent said:


> Ronnie suggested I remove one of the 2 shims on the rebound stack. But I may try opening the rebound knob a click or two more first since I still have at least 3 left to use.


I think it seems odd that he would suggest that, given that you still have some adjustability left with your rebound knob.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Raleighguy29 said:


> Just curious but what bike did you have this on.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Canfield Riot.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

wenna said:


> I think it seems odd that he would suggest that, given that you still have some adjustability left with your rebound knob.


The rebound shim stack is only active in high to mid shaft speeds. The only time that happens on rebound is when you're deep in the travel. Close the rebound knob all the way and jump on the bike. It should be clear where the bike rebounds fairly quickly, then takes like another 10 seconds to rebound the remaining. That quick portion is driven by the rebound shims. The shims and rebound knob together define the overall HSR, but the knob alone defines LSR and the majority of the medium speed rebound.

Pulling a shim off the rebound stack will quicken the HSR, allow closing the rebound knob a bit to keep motion under control while shifting weight etc., and hopefully improve packing if that is indeed the issue. The thing to watch for is rebound after landing hard enough to bottom. That HSR is what differentiates your bike from a trampoline.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

car_nut said:


> The rebound shim stack is only active in high to mid shaft speeds. The only time that happens on rebound is when you're deep in the travel. Close the rebound knob all the way and jump on the bike. It should be clear where the bike rebounds fairly quickly, then takes like another 10 seconds to rebound the remaining. That quick portion is driven by the rebound shims. The shims and rebound knob together define the overall HSR, but the knob alone defines LSR and the majority of the medium speed rebound.
> 
> Pulling a shim off the rebound stack will quicken the HSR, allow closing the rebound knob a bit to keep motion under control while shifting weight etc., and hopefully improve packing if that is indeed the issue. The thing to watch for is rebound after landing hard enough to bottom. That HSR is what differentiates your bike from a trampoline.


Thank you for a really good explanation


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

car_nut said:


> The rebound shim stack is only active in high to mid shaft speeds. The only time that happens on rebound is when you're deep in the travel. Close the rebound knob all the way and jump on the bike. It should be clear where the bike rebounds fairly quickly, then takes like another 10 seconds to rebound the remaining. That quick portion is driven by the rebound shims. The shims and rebound knob together define the overall HSR, but the knob alone defines LSR and the majority of the medium speed rebound.
> 
> Pulling a shim off the rebound stack will quicken the HSR, allow closing the rebound knob a bit to keep motion under control while shifting weight etc., and hopefully improve packing if that is indeed the issue. The thing to watch for is rebound after landing hard enough to bottom. That HSR is what differentiates your bike from a trampoline.


Yes, explaining that the way you did validated my assumption. I too wondered why he'd suggest altering the rebound stack rather than opening the rebound knob a mush or two. Although I did explain to Ronnie in my last email that I had opened the knob only to get kicked off the face of some of the steeper jumps. But it only happened when the suspension was preloaded hard.

car_nut, I'm sorry this shock didn't meet your needs. Probably even more sorry the shims you ordered didn't get here in time for us to learn from your tinkering with the stack.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

car_nut said:


> Canfield Riot.


Man that's a shame it didn't work for you on the riot. I have my riot with the topaz Diamond combo and I love it. I've done 2 different bike parks snowshoe and windrock on mine plus many different trails. Have you thought of going coil. I've also got a balance but it's got mrp raze coil with a 170 stage on it which is also a amazing combo

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

car_nut said:


> The rebound shim stack is only active in high to mid shaft speeds. The only time that happens on rebound is when you're deep in the travel. Close the rebound knob all the way and jump on the bike. It should be clear where the bike rebounds fairly quickly, then takes like another 10 seconds to rebound the remaining. That quick portion is driven by the rebound shims. The shims and rebound knob together define the overall HSR, but the knob alone defines LSR and the majority of the medium speed rebound.
> 
> Pulling a shim off the rebound stack will quicken the HSR, allow closing the rebound knob a bit to keep motion under control while shifting weight etc., and hopefully improve packing if that is indeed the issue. The thing to watch for is rebound after landing hard enough to bottom. That HSR is what differentiates your bike from a trampoline.


Thanks for that explanation. I have mine set up pretty well now. I'm 190 and running it with 200PSI and it works well for my style and trails. But at times wish the rebound were a bit faster. I do have rebound wide open so I thought I might try lighter oil to get a bit more range. Taking out a shim and dialing up the rebound might be a better all around solution. At least now I have a better idea what the shim stack and dial each do.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Thanks for that explanation. I have mine set up pretty well now. I'm 190 and running it with 200PSI and it works well for my style and trails. But at times wish the rebound were a bit faster. I do have rebound wide open so I thought I might try lighter oil to get a bit more range. Taking out a shim and dialing up the rebound might be a better all around solution. At least now I have a better idea what the shim stack and dial each do.


I'm a tad lighter than you and Ronnie at DVO recommended that I remove one of the two rebound shims. Per car_nut, they're 0.10mm thick. I thought I might use a single 0.15mm shim and see how that goes. If a no go, follow DVO's recommendations.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

IRBent said:


> I'm a tad lighter than you and Ronnie at DVO recommended that I remove one of the two rebound shims. Per car_nut, they're 0.10mm thick. I thought I might use a single 0.15mm shim and see how that goes. If a no go, follow DVO's recommendations.


UH!!!!???? Don't listen to me. It appears it takes three 0.10mm shims to equal a single 0.15mm shim. So doing what I mentioned above would result in going backwards. Only if they made a 0.05mm shim.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> UH!!!!???? Don't listen to me. It appears it takes three 0.10mm shims to equal a single 0.15mm shim. So doing what I mentioned above would result in going backwards. Only if they made a 0.05mm shim.


Yes, this page helped me get the basics of shim stacks.

ReStackor Users Manual


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Yes, this page helped me get the basics of shim stacks.
> 
> ReStackor Users Manual


Yeah. While I've looked at that site a time or three, I don't retain much of what I read. It's not the site, just me. Too much going on up top and can't keep in all straight.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Wanted to play some with shim restackor: Does anyone know all the baseline values to enter for the Topaz?


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

So I just took delivery of my Topaz and installed it yesterday and set pressures (havent ridden it yet).

But I noticed that there is a squishy sound in the top part of travel in both compression and rebound. The rebound is also quite a bit slower through that squishy sounding part.

Should I suspect air in the oil?

Could it be sound from the air equalising port between positive and negative chambers that´s giving the sound because of grease passing through?

If grease, would that happen on both compression and rebound, and would it really affect rebound speed?

Don´t really want to tear into a brand new shock.


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Try riding and see if you notice anything. I’d be surprised if there was a problem. You should cycle the shock every 50 psi when you’re inflating to help with equalization of the pos/neg chambers...


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

max_lombardy said:


> Try riding and see if you notice anything. I'd be surprised if there was a problem. You should cycle the shock every 50 psi when you're inflating to help with equalization of the pos/neg chambers...


Yeah I add air incrementally equalizing inbetween.

I pulled down the aircan to check the pos/neg port and it was not blocket with grease. (thought the sound could be from grease squeezing through the port)

Got a fast email reply from DVO who did not think it was something to worry about. But I know what it sounds like when you hear oil circulating through the shock and this was more of a sound of air mixed in.

I would not be too concerned if it was not for the slower rebound in the top part of travel. It slows down significally on top even though I have the rebound knob all the way out.

Anyone tried bleeding the shock without taking it apart? Shouldn´t I just have to add oil to a syringe connected to the bleed port and cycle through the stroke a few times?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> Yeah I add air incrementally equalizing inbetween.
> 
> I pulled down the aircan to check the pos/neg port and it was not blocket with grease. (thought the sound could be from grease squeezing through the port)
> 
> ...


I'm no suspension guru and have only changed the oil and bled my Topaz twice. But if there was air in the oil I'd think when the oil was going through the ports things would slow down. But as soon as the air in the oil started through, your bike would rebound very quickly and uncontrolled. I do believe you can take the bleed screw out, connect a Shimano brake type bleed screw with a syringe partially full of oil and start a bleed process. Make sure to do some slow cycling of the shock. Tapping on it at times to help dislodge any stuck air as well as rotating the bleed port from one angle to the next but always say between 10&2 on a clock. Also do a few quick cycles. I found air to really get expelled on those quick cycles.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

wenna said:


> Yeah I add air incrementally equalizing inbetween.
> 
> I pulled down the aircan to check the pos/neg port and it was not blocket with grease. (thought the sound could be from grease squeezing through the port)
> 
> ...


It does make a bit of sloshing noise even when freshly bled. I did have air in my damper at one stage and that air in damper noise was really loud. When that happened the rebound damping was also affected, which doesn't sound like your situation.

My humble opinion - check you have decent bladder pressure, which can affect the noise the oil makes through the damper, then go ride it first.

If not satisfied and you want to do a fast bleed, then depressurise the shock and bladder, take off the outer air sleeve and/or shraeder valve (allows you to cycle the shock quickly and easily), hold shock end in a soft jaws vise with bleed port facing upwards, attach a prefilled bleed syringe to the bleed port and cycle the shock and see what comes out. Top it up if necessary through the bleed port, reassemble, repressurise and you're good.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

fresh tracks said:


> It does make a bit of sloshing noise even when freshly bled. I did have air in my damper at one stage and that air in damper noise was really loud. When that happened the rebound damping was also affected, which doesn't sound like your situation.
> 
> My humble opinion - check you have decent bladder pressure, which can affect the noise the oil makes through the damper, then go ride it first.
> 
> If not satisfied and you want to do a fast bleed, then depressurise the shock and bladder, take off the outer air sleeve and/or shraeder valve (allows you to cycle the shock quickly and easily), hold shock end in a soft jaws vise with bleed port facing upwards, attach a prefilled bleed syringe to the bleed port and cycle the shock and see what comes out. Top it up if necessary through the bleed port, reassemble, repressurise and you're good.


Thank you very much dude. very helpful.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

I must agree with what everyone is saying about the DVO support. They are awsome and really take their time to help you get the shock sorted to your liking.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I have mine dialed in pretty well, but think the rebound damping may be too high for me:

190-195 all geared up
210PSI in the main can
180PSI in the bladder
1 negative band
stock shim stack and oil
ride in middle setting most of the time
0 clicks (wide open) rebound

I did some 120fps video to evaluate frequency and front/rear balance per Dougal's method. Bike feels more balanced and 'right'. 

On my last ride I went pretty aggressive hitting everything I could find. I used 88% of the travel. So all good on most accounts. However I can't get faster rebound with it wide open. I also find if anything, I tend to not use all the travel. I have never bottomed out. 

IF I do anything, it would be to try the 2.5W Red Line oil. I will pick that, and some Like Water, up since they are on sale this week. BTW...can you mix those to get a viscosity in between? I see charts with 2.5W and higher mixed, but never the 1W Like Water.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> I have mine dialed in pretty well, but think the rebound damping may be too high for me:
> 
> 190-195 all geared up
> 210PSI in the main can
> ...


You definitely can mix the two viscosities. There a numbers of calculators online that will help you get the viscosity you want. But there's a good difference between Red Line Extra Light 2.5W and the stock oil, so I'd suggest going straight 2.5W first. I weigh 10-20 pounds less than you and currently run straight "Like Water" and on occasion my rebound is too slow on successive hits, but too fast on full compression events. Check out this wiki with links to help you get the right blend.

http://www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

Doug said:


> I did some 120fps video to evaluate frequency and front/rear balance per Dougal's method. Bike feels more balanced and 'right'.


Cool! I've been wanting to do this, but haven't quite worked out how to execute it. Do you mind elaborating on how you did this?

Here's where I'm confused: if you bounce on the pedals, the fork and shock will be cycling at the same frequency. Are you able to tell from watching the video if the fork and shock are out of sync. Or are you using the time on the video to measure the frequency of the fork and shock independently, and if so, do you lock out the fork when measuring the shock, and vice versa? Thanks!


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Doug said:


> I have mine dialed in pretty well, but think the rebound damping may be too high for me.


Ronnie at DVO suggested I should remove one of the rebound shims. But I´m quite a bit lighter than you at around 150-160 geared up.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> Ronnie at DVO suggested I should remove one of the rebound shims. But I´m quite a bit lighter than you at around 150-160 geared up.


He suggested the same for me, remove one rebound shim. I weigh @ 185 with gear.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Sid Duffman said:


> Cool! I've been wanting to do this, but haven't quite worked out how to execute it. Do you mind elaborating on how you did this?
> 
> Here's where I'm confused: if you bounce on the pedals, the fork and shock will be cycling at the same frequency. Are you able to tell from watching the video if the fork and shock are out of sync. Or are you using the time on the video to measure the frequency of the fork and shock independently, and if so, do you lock out the fork when measuring the shock, and vice versa? Thanks!


If one is over/undersprung you will feel and see you are not getting as deep in the travel on one end It will then rebound at a different rate you see that the seat and stem have a see-saw motion. I set spring rate by feel mostly. I'm not super aggressive so prefer my suspension a bit softer so not quite 1Hz.

Next is to check for balance. What I looked for was the stem and seat (set level with each other) to stay level with each other. I saw my seat wasn't keeping up and added a bit more air (10 PSI) and suddenly the bike felt much better.

You need to be careful not to apply different forces. Ie don't bounce on the pedals and press on the fork with your arms. That would compress the fork differently. Drive your weight into the pedals and let that compress both. It's hard to explain but be smooth and don't overdo the shock compression movement.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

Hey guys I just got a topaz . After 
mounting it and inflating again with 50 psi and cycling trough the travel the topaz main air valve lost air. I Looked closer and it was cracked near the shock body. I don't know If I am to Stronk or if the previous owner smashed it. Can I replace the whole green Schrader valve tube?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Serpentras D. said:


> Hey guys I just got a topaz . After
> mounting it and inflating again with 50 psi and cycling trough the travel the topaz main air valve lost air. I Looked closer and it was cracked near the shock body. I don't know If I am to Stronk or if the previous owner smashed it. Can I replace the whole green Schrader valve tube?


You can replace the Schrader valve tube assembly.

http://www.dvosuspension.com/product/air-valve-kit/


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## M320 (Mar 22, 2013)

Diamond / Topaz combo on my Tallboy LTc.


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## bikeboardorblade (Jun 19, 2011)

There's some funky Photochop going on there. Great build though!

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

IRBent said:


> You can replace the Schrader valve tube assembly.
> 
> http://www.dvosuspension.com/product/air-valve-kit/


Man thank you. To bad I am not near the US and there is only one store who got that Part. Closed till Monday, yay. However I managed to use a older RS monarch Tube who done the job now.


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## M320 (Mar 22, 2013)

bikeboardorblade said:


> There's some funky Photochop going on there. Great build though!
> 
> Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


Yeah ... no photoshop just I phone portrait mode, it has its limits. But my 1DX won't fit in my pack so it will have to do for now.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

Hey guy's I just got 4h of riding with the Topaz and I prefer this to my 1month old but blown CC DB AIR CS








Now I total dislike how it is not that stiff closed because I like to be efficient on the uphill and my 180mm travel DW linked frame is mostly build for maximum DH so this thing is not blob friendly but can I do something to minimize the blob with the topaz as a newb? Never worked on any shock or fork besides spacers/tokes etc.

The Topaz was also one out of 4 real shocks who can fit into that frame besides the 230x60 mount.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Serpentras D. said:


> Hey guy's I just got 4h of riding with the Topaz and I prefer this to my 1month old but blown CC DB AIR CS
> View attachment 1169315
> 
> 
> ...


Try adding a spacer/tuning band or two on the negative side. That should give you a bit more support but will also take away some of the low speed and small bump compliance.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

IRBent said:


> Try adding a spacer/tuning band or two on the negative side. That should give you a bit more support but will also take away some of the low speed and small bump compliance.


ah I forget to say that I already run with 3 +spacers, max bladder psi and 235 psi and 2 clicks rebound with 198lbs race ready and 210 with a backpack.

Again, thank you I did not realize that there was a negative side where I could add spacers. Will try that tomorrow.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Serpentras D. said:


> ah I forget to say that I already run with 3 +spacers, max bladder psi and 235 psi and 2 clicks rebound with 198lbs race ready and 210 with a backpack.
> 
> Again, thank you I did not realize that there was a negative side where I could add spacers. Will try that tomorrow.


There's a ridge in the middle that separates the positive from the negative. Check out this link.

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/tuning/topaztuning/


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## dwojo (Jun 11, 2017)

I second this advice. I am running two spacers positive and was noticing a slight wallow on low speed compressions, I just added a spacer to the negative and reduced my pressure 10 PSI and it was a great improvement in the mid travel support. It was a noticeable improvement to the pedaling platform. 

Watch out for the little pop of air when you release the negative air chamber. Does anyone know how to avoid this?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

dwojo said:


> I second this advice. I am running two spacers positive and was noticing a slight wallow on low speed compressions, I just added a spacer to the negative and reduced my pressure 10 PSI and it was a great improvement in the mid travel support. It was a noticeable improvement to the pedaling platform.
> 
> Watch out for the little pop of air when you release the negative air chamber. Does anyone know how to avoid this?


The pop of air is nothing to be concerned about. But I'd imagine if you want to reduce it, let all the air out of the main can then cycle the shock slowly like you do when adding air to equalize the chamber pressures. By doing so you'll move air from the negative side to the now empty positive.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

I tried it with one Space for the negative air chamber. Now I don't really can feel less bedal bob. I try for the weekend two then.

I just spoted some Oil from around the aircap for the bladder, because the shock is standing upside down on my frame there was some sort of oil between the black outer shell with the coolingfins and the green insert. In the small crack between the two was some sort of oil. Can it even leak out there? 

Did I inflate it wrong with 50psi for the main airchamber, cycle through the travel. Inflate the bladder to 190psi and inflate the main shock then to 240 psi?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Serpentras D. said:


> I just spoted some Oil from around the aircap for the bladder, because the shock is standing upside down on my frame there was some sort of oil between the black outer shell with the coolingfins and the green insert. In the small crack between the two was some sort of oil. Can it even leak out there?
> 
> Did I inflate it wrong with 50psi for the main airchamber, cycle through the travel. Inflate the bladder to 190psi and inflate the main shock then to 240 psi?


You did inflate it properly.

The oil you found could be of slight concern. If you remove the bladder cap, is it full of oil under the cap where you inflate the bladder? If so your bladder may have a hole in it, or it has come loose from the internal piece. It's easy to replace or check and I'll talk you through it if the section under the cap is full of oil.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

What is everyone using for a bleed adapter on these?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> What is everyone using for a bleed adapter on these?


Same as Shimano brakes.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

> Same as Shimano brakes.


Did you just thread the little over fill cup into the bleed port on the shock shaft? It looks more like the adapter from a RS monarch bleed kit.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> Did you just thread the little over fill cup into the bleed port on the shock shaft? It looks more like the adapter from a RS monarch bleed kit.


I used a syringe instead of the cup.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

But how do you get it attached well enough to the shock to draw a vaccume? Or does this shock not require a tight seal and just uses the syringe as a fluid volume?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> But how do you get it attached well enough to the shock to draw a vaccume? Or does this shock not require a tight seal and just uses the syringe as a fluid volume?


I didn't have an issue but I have to add, my connector was not made by Shimano, but rather part of a kit that fits almost everything out there.


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## hybris (Sep 30, 2015)

SRAM brake bleeder fits as well. Also fits the Reverb seat post.


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## hybris (Sep 30, 2015)

I have been riding my Rocky Mountain Instinct with Topaz for about 6 weeks now and have got to a point where I am happy with it. After trying various combinations of spacers in the positive and negative chambers I changed the oil to Red Line Like Water and went back to the standard shock settings for my weight. This coupled with setting the Ride 9 suspension on the RM to suit a light rider (I'm 73 kg, 160lbs) has given me the result I was looking for. Good control of peddle bob and brake dive, pretty good on the small trail chatter and no bottom out on the harder hits. 
May lighten the shim stack slightly at some point but will wait and see how others get on first. Perhaps when I have it apart for a service.

Have learnt heaps from various folk on this site while getting my suspension set up and thanks to all who have taken the time to contribute. 
For what it is worth, I read through the Monarch RC3 shim stack thread and there are folk there who have put a non-standard shock on their bike and are having many of the same issues as on this thread.


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## NorthShoreDude (Feb 21, 2013)

just got a Topaz for 2018 Enduro (3 bands positive and 2 negative, 200 lbs in both chambers) and was all setup by a DVO service center but now I'm only showing around 50mm of stroke (instead of the 70ish). I've taken all the air out and powercycled every 50 psi but nothing has changed. I haven't ridden the shock and was ok when I left. Any ideas ?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

NorthShoreDude said:


> just got a Topaz for 2018 Enduro (3 bands positive and 2 negative, 200 lbs in both chambers) and was all setup by a DVO service center but now I'm only showing around 50mm of stroke (instead of the 70ish). I've taken all the air out and powercycled every 50 psi but nothing has changed. I haven't ridden the shock and was ok when I left. Any ideas ?


Uh, carry it back. Sounds like they goofed. Dumb question though. Does it cycle the entire stroke when the air pressure is low?


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## NorthShoreDude (Feb 21, 2013)

thanks for replying... when air pressure is low, it cycles fine but only the 40 mm's or so.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

NorthShoreDude said:


> thanks for replying... when air pressure is low, it cycles fine but only the 40 mm's or so.


I just looked up the specs on a 2018 Speshy Enduro and it uses a 216x57 shock. The Topaz version is 216x57.5 so you should be seeing at least 57mm of shaft movement. If you let all of the air out and cycle the shock, let air out again and cycle again, then let air out one last time, you may be nearly empty. If it still only achieves 40mm of travel I'd suggest pulling all tuning bands and trying again. If it won't cycle the 57mm on the shock shaft after pulling the bands and not airing it back up, they've indeed goofed something up.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Let me say too, there's a chance the issue could be that the negative to positive equalization ports are blocked by either grease or the tuning bands. There's a tiny hole on each chamber side that needs to be open. Look for each, make sure the bands are at the other end of the chamber then ease a unfolded gem/paper clip into each hole. It seems like one of them, maybe both are angled, so it helps to ease it in pointing the tip toward the divider ridges between the positive and negative chambers. It wouldn't take much air at all to keep the shock from full cycle because it builds pressure exponentially as it nears the end of stroke.


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## NorthShoreDude (Feb 21, 2013)

I took the air pressure out but it wouldn't allow me to cycle the shock. It was stuck. I put some air pressure in (around 150 psi) but the the shock only came up around 20 mm's. I'll just take it back to SuspensionWerx and let Alex take a look at it. Thanks for you help. Hopefully we can get it sorted out.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

NorthShoreDude said:


> I took the air pressure out but it wouldn't allow me to cycle the shock. It was stuck. I put some air pressure in (around 150 psi) but the the shock only came up around 20 mm's. I'll just take it back to SuspensionWerx and let Alex take a look at it. Thanks for you help. Hopefully we can get it sorted out.


Sounds like maybe the ports are blocked.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

IRBent said:


> Sounds like maybe the ports are blocked.


I second this... check the ports as it sounds like the air does not equalize out of the negative chamber.


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## Jammertime (Aug 14, 2014)

has anyone put the Topaz on a Kona Process yet?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

*Bladder pressure - maybe too low?*

Well I've just done another service of the Topaz at ~ 65 hours since last service. Way early I know vs the service guides but I'd had some very wet riding days and also wanted to see how the damper oil has been holding up as the shock was feeling a bit spongy when pedalling. Plenty of air in the damper. Damn. This is about the same number of hours I last checked the damper oil with similar problems. However this was a full factory service by the local agent, replacing all the seals, so I can wipe out myself as the culprit. I reckon it might be bladder pressure. I'm running 175psi in the bladder, 200 in the main. I'm going to up the bladder pressure to 185 and see if the problem goes away. Anyone else with this issue?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Well I've just done another service of the Topaz at ~ 65 hours since last service. Way early I know vs the service guides but I'd had some very wet riding days and also wanted to see how the damper oil has been holding up as the shock was feeling a bit spongy when pedalling. Plenty of air in the damper. Damn. This is about the same number of hours I last checked the damper oil with similar problems. However this was a full factory service by the local agent, replacing all the seals, so I can wipe out myself as the culprit. I reckon it might be bladder pressure. I'm running 175psi in the bladder, 200 in the main. I'm going to up the bladder pressure to 185 and see if the problem goes away. Anyone else with this issue?


You can't compare duration exactly. Rider weight, terrain and how hard you ride also need to be taken into account. An old slow guy who rides 5 miles per week and never leaves the ground will get longer service for sure. I've got over 200 miles on my shock since I last changed the oil but maybe only 30 hours of moderate paced riding. I weigh @ 180 with gear and don't ride very hard but I'm okay with taking a 6'-10' tabletop jump.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> You can't compare duration exactly. Rider weight, terrain and how hard you ride also need to be taken into account. An old slow guy who rides 5 miles per week and never leaves the ground will get longer service for sure. I've got over 200 miles on my shock since I last changed the oil but maybe only 30 hours of moderate paced riding. I weigh @ 180 with gear and don't ride very hard but I'm okay with taking a 6'-10' tabletop jump.


Yep, agreed. I'd be dreaming if I thought I could get to the 150 hour service interval that DVO suggests. 65 seems low though. Using past experience with Fox and CC rear shocks I would get to ~ 80 to 100 hours with the damper before noticing it needed servicing.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Yep, agreed. I'd be dreaming if I thought I could get to the 150 hour service interval that DVO suggests. 65 seems low though. Using past experience with Fox and CC rear shocks I would get to ~ 80 to 100 hours with the damper before noticing it needed servicing.


When you say service hours, are you referring to an oil change or maybe a complete service that includes oil and seals? I just took the time to tally up my hours of service on my Topaz. I currently have 60 hours on the shock but the last 31 hours have been on my second oil change when I went to Red Line Like Water. The oil change wasn't done because of wonky suspension, but because I was trying to make the shock more active/reactive. I basically wanted to speed up the shaft speed so it could handle successive hits and rebound quick enough to lessen any packing action I was having. Despite having gone in twice now to change the oil, I've yet to change any of the seals or has the shock began to leak air or oil.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Both of my Topaz's, brand new from the factory, have needed air can seals done at ~70 hours. I'd be surprised if anyone really makes it to anywhere near 150hrs.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Porch said:


> Both of my Topaz's, brand new from the factory, have needed air can seals done at ~70 hours. I'd be surprised if anyone really makes it to anywhere near 150hrs.


Sounds like I may need to go ahead and order a seal kit then.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> When you say service hours, are you referring to an oil change or maybe a complete service that includes oil and seals? I just took the time to tally up my hours of service on my Topaz. I currently have 60 hours on the shock but the last 31 hours have been on my second oil change when I went to Red Line Like Water. The oil change wasn't done because of wonky suspension, but because I was trying to make the shock more active/reactive. I basically wanted to speed up the shaft speed so it could handle successive hits and rebound quick enough to lessen any packing action I was having. Despite having gone in twice now to change the oil, I've yet to change any of the seals or has the shock began to leak air or oil.


Air in the damper is my issue rather than air seals. I mainly ride in desert like conditions, which I think is a bit easier on seals. No mud or dirt.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Air in the damper is my issue rather than air seals. I mainly ride in desert like conditions, which I think is a bit easier on seals. No mud or dirt.


Have you tried a good bleed? When I went from the factory oil to the Redline Extra Light 2.5W I followed the instructions and got the bubbles to stop. But it didn't take but a few hard rides for me to feel the difference. But by then I opted to drop to the Redline Like Water. I followed the instructions, got to the no bubbles point, then decided I'd tap on the shock Piggly with a rubber hammer and rock it at different angles, tap some more, then did a few slow cycles followed by several really quick cycles. Then more rocking and tapping. I kept getting bubbles after the rocking, changing the bleed port from top dead center to various angles, then back to the top. So kept it up until I couldn't get bubbles. I don't ride in wet conditions because I'm afraid I'll melt if I get wet.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> Have you tried a good bleed? When I went from the factory oil to the Redline Extra Light 2.5W I followed the instructions and got the bubbles to stop. But it didn't take but a few hard rides for me to feel the difference. But by then I opted to drop to the Redline Like Water. I followed the instructions, got to the no bubbles point, then decided I'd tap on the shock Piggly with a rubber hammer and rock it at different angles, tap some more, then did a few slow cycles followed by several really quick cycles. Then more rocking and tapping. I kept getting bubbles after the rocking, changing the bleed port from top dead center to various angles, then back to the top. So kept it up until I couldn't get bubbles. I don't ride in wet conditions because I'm afraid I'll melt if I get wet.


Thanks for the tips. Sounds like your bleed technique is pretty similar to mine. I keep going back to the bladder pressure. As a rule of thumb the guidelines seem to link it with rider weight. However since it's not the air spring and it is not there to support rider weight, shouldn't bladder pressure be better guided by riding terrain and speed? I ride a lot of high speed rock gardens, so I think my shock sees a lot of high speed shaft movements as a proportion of total ride time. I'm assuming high shock shaft speeds equates with greater bladder pressure needed to stop potential cavitation and longer term formation of air bubbles? Does this make sense? I weigh 165lbs, 200psi in the main air spring, 175psi in the bladder. Maybe 185 or 190 in the bladder?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Thanks for the tips. Sounds like your bleed technique is pretty similar to mine. I keep going back to the bladder pressure. As a rule of thumb the guidelines seem to link it with rider weight. However since it's not the air spring and it is not there to support rider weight, shouldn't bladder pressure be better guided by riding terrain and speed? I ride a lot of high speed rock gardens, so I'm assuming my shock sees a lot of high speed shaft movements as a proportion of total ride time. I'm assuming high shock shaft speeds equates with greater bladder pressure needed to stop potential formation of air bubbles? Does this make sense? I weigh 165lbs, 200psi in the main air spring, 175psi in the bladder. Maybe 185 or 190 in the bladder?


Let me say this up front. I'm not a suspension expert and may not understand the bladder function but here's my take. The higher the bladder pressure the more resistance there is against the oil's movement from the shock to the bladder reservoir. So while I want a shock that moves very freely I run 170psi in the bladder and try to keep the shock from bottoming out by using extra volume reducers on the positive chamber. Rather than using higher bladder pressure to slow down the shock movement, which I think essentially adds more dampening. I opt for low bladder pressure to reduce dampening for a quicker more active/reactive shock and rely on main air chamber pressure and tuning bands to ramp the positive side up quick enough to reduce bottom outs. I've also installed a tuning band or two on the negative side to add low end support so not to blow through the beginning of the travel with every tiny bump.
Again, I'm no suspension expert, just my take based on my feel for the trails that I ride and what I want from my shock. Then too, my Shockwiz seems to agree with my setup on the trails that I ride. I weigh in @ 180 with gear and run 170psi in the bladder and 180 in the main air chamber. I think I have 3 tuning bands in the positive chamber and 2 in the negative. Topaz on a 2015 Bronson.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Jammertime said:


> has anyone put the Topaz on a Kona Process yet?


I have one on my 2015 153. I had a CCDB Air CS on there for a while, but got frustrated with reliability issues. When it worked it felt pretty great, but also I really like the Topaz. It feels great most everywhere, though with the linear nature of the Process's suspension, combined with a larger volume air can, the Topaz blows through it's travel a little too much at times. This is mostly on wacky his to flat, so I really can't complain. Still playing with air pressure, but I'm about 200 lbs without gear. My set up at the end of the season was 240-5 psi in the can, 200 psi in the bladder, rebound 4 clicks out from closed, and all the spacers (5?) in the positive side chamber. Super supple over the little chatter and takes big hits very well, unless I drop to flat. Obviously then I'll feel some bottom out. Really love the behavior off jumps though, poppy without bucking, which I hadn't yet tuned out of the DB.


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

*Rip9 RDO Compatability Question*

Hi all. I'm looking to replace the Fox Float on my 2015 Rip9 RDO with the Topaz T3 Wondering if there are any compatibility or fit issues that I need to be aware of. Also, if anyone has made that swap, what their experiences have been.

Thanks in advance


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

car_nut said:


> Are you riding with the compression lever open? Can describe under what circumstance you feel the LSC is too stiff? Mine has decidedly little low speed compression with the lever open. The meager shim stack on the main piston agrees with that.


I'm getting ready to rip into mine and I am going to talk with Ronnie about suggested changes to the shim stack for my Topaz and Diamond. I noticed that they have an updated service guide for the Topaz and it shows the removal of the entire reservoir which houses a "loader" compression assembly. Has anyone taken a look at it yet? I'm assuming that when the lever is set to open the circuit is bypassed?


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Fits great on my medium.



jms said:


> Hi all. I'm looking to replace the Fox Float on my 2015 Rip9 RDO with the Topaz T3 Wondering if there are any compatibility or fit issues that I need to be aware of. Also, if anyone has made that swap, what their experiences have been.
> 
> Thanks in advance


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## jms (Feb 4, 2006)

Thank you fro the feedback. I was hoping to hear that - the Fox is underwhelming.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

jms said:


> Thank you fro the feedback. I was hoping to hear that - the Fox is underwhelming.


A lot of people say that about Fox. They should use it as their slogan: "Fox, be prepared to be underwhelmed."


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

I’ve got a 2017 Yeti Sb5, will the Topaz T3 fit on that frame? Yeti uses 210x50mm, the closest I could see for Topaz is 200x51. Anyone tried it on an SB5?


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## lagerboy (Sep 26, 2017)

Addendum: I looked at another place on DVO website, looks like they have in 210x50


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

lagerboy said:


> Addendum: I looked at another place on DVO website, looks like they have in 210x50


And that would work. The other would be a bad fit.


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## canadianjerkey (Feb 27, 2014)

Well that looks interesting.









(Pulled from PB post here: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/giant...lo-Gutierrez-jacob-dickson-Eliot-Jackson.html)


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Twin-tube, trunnion mounted Topaz? Since it's got the lever on the reservoir I can't imagine what other differences from the current one it has besides looking like the lsc assembly and bladder get inserted from the side.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

canadianjerkey said:


> Well that looks interesting.
> 
> View attachment 1178907
> 
> ...


More details per Bryson:
-Topaz 2
-available mid-year
-same compression damper but some new "mods"
-will be spec'd on OEM Giant builds


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

that is HUGE for DVO. OEM for Giant ? holy balls


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> More details per Bryson:
> -Topaz 2
> -available mid-year
> -same compression damper but some new "mods"
> -will be spec'd on OEM Giant builds


Topaz 2. I may have to consider it if it offers individual LSC, HSC, LSR, & HSR knobs. Tuner's delight. I love how dirt simple the original Topaz is to do a complete service job on. Maybe the next version will be as easy too.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

127.0.0.1 said:


> that is HUGE for DVO. OEM for Giant ? holy balls


That's pretty cool of Giant to choose DVO. I'm more than a bit sick and tired of seeing only RS and Fox offered by the OEMs.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> More details per Bryson:
> -Topaz 2
> -available mid-year
> -same compression damper but some new "mods"
> -will be spec'd on OEM Giant builds


Where did you see, read or hear from Bryson the Topaz, DVO suspension components would be spec'ed as OEM on the new Giant bikes? I called my A.D.D. reading comprehension self looking through the PB article and didn't see any OEM comments, just their factory team riders getting set up with DVO components. If so, I'm stoked for DVO. The new guys ate marching swiftly towards the top of the mountain.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

great to see the ex Marzocchi guys getting a big business collaboration w/ Giant. hopefully that will cement their long term success.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

nhodge said:


> great to see the ex Marzocchi guys getting a big business collaboration w/ Giant. hopefully that will cement their long term success.


Where's the FB like button?


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

i don't know, but if i did , i'd be jumping on it like a trampoline


IRBent said:


> Where's the FB like button?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Where did you see, read or hear from Bryson the Topaz, DVO suspension components would be spec'ed as OEM on the new Giant bikes? I called my A.D.D. reading comprehension self looking through the PB article and didn't see any OEM comments, just their factory team riders getting set up with DVO components. If so, I'm stoked for DVO. The new guys ate marching swiftly towards the top of the mountain.


It was in the comments section. Bryson responded to a question. I would be shocked if the Topaz 2 is out this year. The good news is when DVO releases a product,it is fully sorted. The bad news is they are consistently 6-12 months behind their projected release date.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Cary said:


> It was in the comments section. Bryson responded to a question. I would be shocked if the Topaz 2 is out this year. The good news is when DVO releases a product,it is fully sorted. The bad news is they are consistently 6-12 months behind their projected release date.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Thanks for the update. I'm really pleased with my original Topaz and a few months, or years, would make justification to the wife much more palatable. LOL


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Cary said:


> The good news is when DVO releases a product,it is fully sorted. The bad news is they are consistently 6-12 months behind their projected release date.


Yes. Sapphire was way behind. However in large part because they had to redesign for boost. Garnet was also very hard to get at first and still often a backorder. I hope Giant as OEM client will help improve supply and production.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Yes. Sapphire was way behind. However in large part because they had to redesign for boost. Garnet was also very hard to get at first and still often a backorder. I hope Giant as OEM client will help improve supply and production.


That's a good point. A manufacturer demanding product deadlines can be a positive thing for DVO. But if they can't keep up with demand it could ruin them despite their quality product lines.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> That's a good point. A manufacturer demanding product deadlines can be a positive thing for DVO. But if they can't keep up with demand it could ruin them despite their quality product lines.


I suspect they are/were constrained by their size. They are a great team but a small team. I expect Giant will provide the capital needed to expand and speed up R&D. Same for production. Bigger orders open doors. Giant may also have other options for production and supply chain.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> I suspect they are/were constrained by their size. They are a great team but a small team. I expect Giant will provide the capital needed to expand and speed up R&D. Same for production. Bigger orders open doors. Giant may also have other options for production and supply chain.


Great alternative perspective.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

They have a good supply chain, they have a very close relationship with SR Suntour, who manufactures their products. This also isn’t their first rodeo, they ran Marzocchi NA as much as they could and understand the difference between announcing a product to the public and a hard deadline for a OEM. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Tried to do a bleed and fluid change on my topaz last night. Tear down was easy. A lost easier than any RS product I've taken apart.

But, I must have had a few bubbles left in there. it felt good on the bench and I did the same technic as listed above with the moving around, taping on the body in misc spots etc. 

I had A LOT of pressure on the factory fluid and a large amount of air trapped inside the fluid (aeration). I'm wondering if I'm not getting air intrusion from somewhere?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> Tried to do a bleed and fluid change on my topaz last night. Tear down was easy. A lost easier than any RS product I've taken apart.
> 
> But, I must have had a few bubbles left in there. it felt good on the bench and I did the same technic as listed above with the moving around, taping on the body in misc spots etc.
> 
> I had A LOT of pressure on the factory fluid and a large amount of air trapped inside the fluid (aeration). I'm wondering if I'm not getting air intrusion from somewhere?


Simply toss it back on the bench and bleed again, and even again next week if necessary. Make sure to do some slow and some FAST cycles on the shock when bleeding it. I found that helped my issue.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I screwed up and some how got a hole in my bladder. It made contact with the nut on the back of the compression stack. I'm guessing I had a large bubble left in the damper and once I pressurized the bladder chamber and cycled the shock the bladder came into contact with the compression stack.

A learning experience but still sucks. 

I don't understand why you have to fill the shaft and then not put the damper back inside after you fill the shaft. I think my issue came from loosing too much fluid when I tried to flip the full shaft back onto the damper while rebuilding. Next time I'm going to try it the other way from what the manual states and see if it goes any better.

Also, have to wait a while for some parts, seems DVO is out of kits for the damper, the air sleeve and the bladder. Had to use my old RS monarch this weekend (yuck).


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> I screwed up and some how got a hole in my bladder. It made contact with the nut on the back of the compression stack. I'm guessing I had a large bubble left in the damper and once I pressurized the bladder chamber and cycled the shock the bladder came into contact with the compression stack.
> 
> A learning experience but still sucks.
> 
> ...


I use a credit card or thin piece of plastic to cap the cylinder before flipping it over. I line it up of the threaded end and slip The card out real quick. I still lose some oil but not near as much as by just flipping it over and hoping for the best.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Check out their tech site, there's a rev2 topaz guide with a better technique and it's more comprehensive.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Check out their tech site, there's a rev2 topaz guide with a better technique and it's more comprehensive.


Thanks for that info. I haven't looked at their site in a few months.
Here's a link to version 2 of the full service tech guide:
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/topaz_fullservicev2.pdf


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I like the way they do it in that version (V2). Opening the compression needle like that and installing the piston/shaft onto the stanchion instead of flipping the stanchion full of oil makes way more sense.

Now where's that damn rebuild kit....


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

terrible said:


> I like the way they do it in that version (V2). Opening the compression needle like that and installing the piston/shaft onto the stanchion instead of flipping the stanchion full of oil makes way more sense.
> 
> Now where's that damn rebuild kit....


Have you looked at resellers? You never know if they are trying to drop ship but they say they have them in stock:
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/dvo-topaz-damper-rebuild-kit
https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/dvo-topaz-air-canister-service-kit


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I need the bladder and no where I've checked keeps them in stock, thanks though.



crimedog said:


> Have you looked at resellers? You never know if they are trying to drop ship but they say they have them in stock:
> https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/dvo-topaz-damper-rebuild-kit
> https://www.niagaracycle.com/categories/dvo-topaz-air-canister-service-kit


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

terrible said:


> I need the bladder and no where I've checked keeps them in stock, thanks though.


Oh, right. Bummer. Have you called? It sounded like the replacement part Ronnie is sending me came from a donor shock.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Yeah I called and he said "I'm bone dry on all topaz parts". Hope the boat/plane/donkey gets here soon 😣



crimedog said:


> Oh, right. Bummer. Have you called? It sounded like the replacement part Ronnie is sending me came from a donor shock.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

crimedog said:


> Oh, right. Bummer. Have you called? It sounded like the replacement part Ronnie is sending me came from a donor shock.


What's wrong with your bladder. If it isn't ruptured i have a way to fix fluid/air leaks from the bladder.

Remove it from the fill valve plate and wrap the groove of the plate with a couple wraps of Teflon tape. It will tighten up the sealing surface and stop leaks.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## mehukatti (Sep 21, 2005)

Could someone compare DVO Topaz to Fox Float X Kashima? Which one is better and is there really much difference in ride quality?


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

Any larger riders out there? I'm 260 geared up and in the market to replace my RS Monarch Plus. It would be going on a '17 Bronson.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

askibum02 said:


> Any larger riders out there? I'm 260 geared up and in the market to replace my RS Monarch Plus. It would be going on a '17 Bronson.


I have a friend who is a touch over your weight and he really likes the Topaz on his HT-LT. I'm on the other side of the weight spectrum so I don't have any experience there but I've heard that it's a good idea to run less spacers because the shock becomes more progressive at higher pressures.


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## NorthShoreDude (Feb 21, 2013)

I only have a couple of rides on my Topaz (used to ride a Float DPS) and it's a night and day difference. Way more traction and honestly feels like a coil. I weigh 170 and on a 2018 Enduro. 3 bands in the positive, 2 bands in the negative. 210 lbs in main chamber and 200 in the other one.


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

crimedog said:


> I have a friend who is a touch over your weight and he really likes the Topaz on his HT-LT. I'm on the other side of the weight spectrum so I don't have any experience there but I've heard that it's a good idea to run less spacers because the shock becomes more progressive at higher pressures.


Thanks. Any other big guys? I'm interested to know what pressures your running and whether or not you had the compression tuned.


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## bikeboardorblade (Jun 19, 2011)

NorthShoreDude said:


> I only have a couple of rides on my Jade (used to ride a Float DPS) and it's a night and day difference. Way more traction and honestly feels like a coil. I weigh 170 and on a 2018 Enduro. 3 bands in the positive, 2 bands in the negative. 210 lbs in main chamber and 200 in the other one.


I'm guessing you mean your Topaz feels like a coil?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

askibum02 said:


> Thanks. Any other big guys? I'm interested to know what pressures your running and whether or not you had the compression tuned.


I'm on a Topaz, Rocky Mountain Instinct (979-MSL) in XXL. I weigh 235 (used to be with gear, anymore that is sans riding gear), and I can actually get away with running 225psi air can, 200 bladder, running one band in the negative, two in the positive. I haven't done much with it, but the improvement over the FoxCTD is absolutely huge. The Monarch I had in the interim was right in between practically, the only advantage that had is that the DBA RT3 was content running really high sag (40%) in a lift served setup that gave lots of traction and had some bottom out.
The topaz gives me all of that, but my new setup climbs miles better - I don't know how much of that is due to trimming off pounds (plural) from the setup when I went to the Topaz (Carbon bars, crankset, wheels; went to 1x11), but I have the best of most worlds right now. I'd say the Topaz2 ought to be something product managers from more companies should look at.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Speaking of the Topaz 2. Have any real details been released other than those pics surrounding the Giant factory race team's bikes?


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## NorthShoreDude (Feb 21, 2013)

bikeboardorblade said:


> I'm guessing you mean your Topaz feels like a coil?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


Yes... sorry. Fixed now.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

Hi my friends have dvo topaz on riot 2017
my level of riding is expert I make a stable settings for my bike and my weight
Im 200lbrs with backpack ready for the trails
I cant bottom out or use all the stroke
without bands I have pedal strokes and very linear feel
I installed 1+ and 1- with 200 in the main and 180 in the bladder
but cant use full stroke whats your opinion?
Im in 30% sag with those settings


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Darksoul said:


> Hi my friends have dvo topaz on riot 2017
> my level of riding is expert I make a stable settings for my bike and my weight
> Im 200lbrs with backpack ready for the trails
> I cant bottom out or use all the stroke
> ...


I'd suggest adding one more band to the negative side and drop the main chamber pressure to get the sag you want. Having 2 bands in the negative side will offer more support at the bottom, but will also take away from small bump compliance. Although reducing the main chamber pressure will allow the shock to move a bit more and that will aid in the small bump compliance and maybe get you closer to full travel.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

If that don't work, try removing the single positive band and using only a single negative band. Start with the same pressures you listed, 200 in the main and 180 in the bladder with only one band on the negative. If you bottom out you may need to try for 25% sag. This extra main pressure to get to 25% sag will help reduce pedal strikes and with only one band on the negative you may still have close to the same small bump compliance.

It's fun playing with this shock as it has easy to use features to help dial in the ride you want. I can't wait for the Topaz 2 to come out. It may be the ultimate user friendly, completely tunable, home mechanic rebuildable shock ever.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

IRBent said:


> If that don't work, try removing the single positive band and using only a single negative band. Start with the same pressures you listed, 200 in the main and 180 in the bladder with only one band on the negative. If you bottom out you may need to try for 25% sag. This extra main pressure to get to 25% sag will help reduce pedal strikes and with only one band on the negative you may still have close to the same small bump compliance.
> 
> It's fun playing with this shock as it has easy to use features to help dial in the ride you want. I can't wait for the Topaz 2 to come out. It may be the ultimate user friendly, completely tunable, home mechanic rebuildable shock ever.


maybe try this and figure out if this work!!
otherwise I try the first option!!
thank a lot

dvo products its amazing I hope to get the diamond for the front!
and the new rear for sure It will be good shock!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Darksoul said:


> maybe try this and figure out if this work!!
> otherwise I try the first option!!
> thank a lot
> 
> ...


I was fighting my Fox Evol shock that came on my Bronson. I plopped the Topaz on and hit one section of trail that always dealt my Fox shock fits. It was almost dark as I pointed the front end towards that repetitive line of roots. I came out the other end thinking I missed the roots. I turned around, rode by the rooted section and made note of the ugliest line possible and repeated my run. I came out the other end all grins knowing I hit it all and the Topaz smoothed it out like it wasn't even there. About a half mile later I realized I had the 3 position switch in the locked out climb mode. WOW!!!!! In near complete darkness I turned around once again with the switch wide open. I've been at awe ever since. It made my Pike fork feel less than stellar so I had to drop a Vorsprung Luftkappe in my fork to get a better match to my Topaz.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

IRBent said:


> I was fighting my Fox Evol shock that came on my Bronson. I plopped the Topaz on and hit one section of trail that always dealt my Fox shock fits. It was almost dark as I pointed the front end towards that repetitive line of roots. I came out the other end thinking I missed the roots. I turned around, rode by the rooted section and made note of the ugliest line possible and repeated my run. I came out the other end all grins knowing I hit it all and the Topaz smoothed it out like it wasn't even there. About a half mile later I realized I had the 3 position switch in the locked out climb mode. WOW!!!!! In near complete darkness I turned around once again with the switch wide open. I've been at awe ever since. It made my Pike fork feel less than stellar so I had to drop a Vorsprung Luftkappe in my fork to get a better match to my Topaz.


my revelation rct3 solo air works hardly to keep the riot and topaz working
Im bottom out easily but order tokkens to put it until buy new fork


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## cryde (Oct 20, 2007)

*DVO Topaz on a Yeti SB5c?*

Holy Knowledge Batman!!!
I've read and re-read parts of this thread and I'm astounded by all the info here. Thanks everyone. 
I'm very close to pulling the trigger on one of these shocks but wanted to see if anyone has mounted one up to a Yeti SB5c and what experiences they have had. 
If not, does anyone think it would work well with the SB5's leverage etc...Yeti SB5C 27.5'' 2015 - Linkage Design

Thanks ya'll.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

cryde said:


> Holy Knowledge Batman!!!
> I've read and re-read parts of this thread and I'm astounded by all the info here. Thanks everyone.
> I'm very close to pulling the trigger on one of these shocks but wanted to see if anyone has mounted one up to a Yeti SB5c and what experiences they have had.
> If not, does anyone think it would work well with the SB5's leverage etc...Yeti SB5C 27.5'' 2015 - Linkage Design
> ...


Seeing how the SB5 curve follows that of a VPP design as shown for the SC 5010, I'd say the Topaz will work nicely on your Yeti. I know it works very well on my VPP equipped Bronson. Many of the DVO crew all ride Santa Cruz bikes too. So with the Yeti and SC bikes sharing similar curves, you have DVO there for advice too.


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## Jado (Apr 24, 2010)

*DVO Tuning with ShockWiz*

Hey, I'm on my second DVO Topaz, I sold my previous bike with it, bought new frame and another Topaz to suit.

I am tuning it on my Mondraker Foxy and get the below observations on 'aggressive' tuning. In the 'Playful' tuning mode i got this fully green, perfect tune, but it felt too harsh and the back end skipped rather than hugging the ground.

So this feels better everywhere but the recommendations are as below, which i believe would improve the ride.

Has anyone here tuned the Topaz with a shockwiz and do you have any suggestions on how to tune further?

235psi, 200psi bladder, no volume spacers, rider weight 105kg/231lbs

Thanks!


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## cryde (Oct 20, 2007)

IRBent, 
Thanks for your reply. I had seen the comparison with the 5010(AKA 'Solo') and thought it would match well but wanted to throw it out there. I've really enjoyed all your contributions about the Topaz. Cheers!


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

I ordered a topaz yesterday and should have it Wednesday for my Knolly Endorphin. I’m stoked to be off my Cane Creek DBAir iL. It was a fine shock I just wasn’t stoked about having to send it back every year for maintenance at $160 a pop when the topaz rebuild kit is like $16.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Jado said:


> Hey, I'm on my second DVO Topaz, I sold my previous bike with it, bought new frame and another Topaz to suit.
> 
> I am tuning it on my Mondraker Foxy and get the below observations on 'aggressive' tuning. In the 'Playful' tuning mode i got this fully green, perfect tune, but it felt too harsh and the back end skipped rather than hugging the ground.
> 
> ...


I've used the Shockwiz on my Topaz most of the spring and summer last year. I found that even the playful tune mode wanted the shock soft and active. The aggressive mode wants it, in my opinion, too soft. Everything shown in your results pics says let air out and make the shock move more. If you want to tune in the aggressive mode start dropping air pressure in the main. You may end up adding band/s on the positive side in order to keep it from bottoming out. I had to change the oil to Red Line Like Water in order to get mine happy. And it still has a minor quirk occasionally in HSC repetitive hits where it begins to pack. Ronnie at DVO suggested that I remove one of the rebound shims to fix the problem but I've yet to bother with it.


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## Jado (Apr 24, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I've used the Shockwiz on my Topaz most of the spring and summer last year. I found that even the playful tune mode wanted the shock soft and active. The aggressive mode wants it, in my opinion, too soft. Everything shown in your results pics says let air out and make the shock move more. If you want to tune in the aggressive mode start dropping air pressure in the main. You may end up adding band/s on the positive side in order to keep it from bottoming out. I had to change the oil to Red Line Like Water in order to get mine happy. And it still has a minor quirk occasionally in HSC repetitive hits where it begins to pack. Ronnie at DVO suggested that I remove one of the rebound shims to fix the problem but I've yet to bother with it.


Thanks ! good tips. So i let out 15psi, added two spacers to positive side and 1 to the negative side so that i could achieve 30% sag, without the band in the negative the sag was closer to 37%.

The ride felt pretty good, but could tell the shock probably had a bit too much resistance in the high speed compression.

So seems like the only option at this stage is the same as you, modifying the shim stack. Can you (or anyone) point me to a guide or some explanation of whats involved? I have a race this weekend, i'm wondering if its something i might be able to do by then, depending on the difficulty and time involved.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Jado said:


> Thanks ! good tips. So i let out 15psi, added two spacers to positive side and 1 to the negative side so that i could achieve 30% sag, without the band in the negative the sag was closer to 37%.
> 
> The ride felt pretty good, but could tell the shock probably had a bit too much resistance in the high speed compression.
> 
> ...


If you have a lower weight, viscosity, oil, it will help reduce the compression by allowing the thinner oil to move through the piston and shims easier. I ended up using Red Line Like Water. You'll have to replace the oil if you opt to do a shim stack adjustment.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> If you have a lower weight, viscosity, oil, it will help reduce the compression by allowing the thinner oil to move through the piston and shims easier. I ended up using Red Line Like Water. You'll have to replace the oil if you opt to do a shim stack adjustment.


Thinner oil doesn't have much of an effect on high speed compression or rebound since it's controlled by a shim stack bit low speed will be effected. His hsr supposedly is good so that leaves a compression stack readjustment which isn't in the "quick fix" list. I'd give them a call and see what Ronnie says. Let us know!

Edit: think about shims flexing on a solid column of oil going through fairly large ports for high speed (base valve.) Low speed has to flow oil through the damper shaft and the piggy back or rebound adjuster depending on which direction.


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## rhale (Aug 15, 2010)

Anyone running this on a Rocky Thunderbolt? I have the BC edition and am sick of my lower back being sore after riding. The Monarch is either too soft or too firm and I’m done. I know that the t-bolt has a very progressive suspension so I wasn’t sure if this would be a good match. TIA!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

rhale said:


> Anyone running this on a Rocky Thunderbolt? I have the BC edition and am sick of my lower back being sore after riding. The Monarch is either too soft or too firm and I'm done. I know that the t-bolt has a very progressive suspension so I wasn't sure if this would be a good match. TIA!


It will work fine. I run them on two different Turner Burners which are very progressive and still run a couple of volume spacers to control bottoming. That said, given the bike you are using, I would be inclined to send your current shock to Avalanche and have it custom tuned (actually gutted with new internals). It is less than $250, lets you stay with a non piggyback shock, and will work incredibly well.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

rhale said:


> Anyone running this on a Rocky Thunderbolt? I have the BC edition and am sick of my lower back being sore after riding. The Monarch is either too soft or too firm and I'm done. I know that the t-bolt has a very progressive suspension so I wasn't sure if this would be a good match. TIA!


Lower back tends to be fit more than anything else. Wider bars would be the cheapest way to test, but the 'right' answer is going up a size (or two), as that can help the most.
Too soft on the Monarch tends to be the preferred side to be on if you can't get it dialed (because it's so progressive).

As good as the topaz is (and it's an awesome shock for Rocky trail bike suspension curves), it may not fix that, despite being a definitive upgrade in a lot of other areas.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Thinner oil doesn't have much of an effect on high speed compression or rebound since it's controlled by a shim stack bit low speed will be effected. His hsr supposedly is good so that leaves a compression stack readjustment which isn't in the "quick fix" list. I'd give them a call and see what Ronnie says. Let us know!
> 
> Edit: think about shims flexing on a solid column of oil going through fairly large ports for high speed (base valve.) Low speed has to flow oil through the damper shaft and the piggy back or rebound adjuster depending on which direction.


I'm trying to learn suspension theory and you sorta lost me here. You said thinner oil wouldn't change, or effect much on HSC/HSR, right? So thinner oil wouldn't move through the shim stack faster, is that what you're saying? My bike tries to pack occasionally on HS repetitive hits but doesn't bottom on my biggest hits. So I was thinking my HSR needed to be lighter so it could rebound faster. Would this be controlled by the rebound stack on the main piston or the stack on the bladder?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> I'm trying to learn suspension theory and you sorta lost me here. You said thinner oil wouldn't change, or effect much on HSC/HSR, right? So thinner oil wouldn't move through the shim stack faster, is that what you're saying? My bike tries to pack occasionally on HS repetitive hits but doesn't bottom on my biggest hits. So I was thinking my HSR needed to be lighter so it could rebound faster. Would this be controlled by the rebound stack on the main piston or the stack on the bladder?


Correct about the oil. HSR is controlled by the main valve so it sounds like you would benefit from losing a rebound shim. The compression loader in the reservoir only affects LSC and the rebound adjuster affects the LSR.

If you're not using all your travel it's probably the air spring.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Correct about the oil. HSR is controlled by the main valve so it sounds like you would benefit from losing a rebound shim. The compression loader in the reservoir only affects LSC and the rebound adjuster affects the LSR.
> 
> If you're not using all your travel it's probably the air spring.


Thanks. I use almost all of my travel if I get after it. But I'm a bit old and lazy and tend to keep things safe most of the time. There's only two shims on the rebound side of the main piston. So I may remove one but replace it with a smaller diameter shim, moving down in size until I find the best results. I can't imagine a single 0.10mm thick shim being enough, but it might be.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Thanks. I use almost all of my travel if I get after it. But I'm a bit old and lazy and tend to keep things safe most of the time. There's only two shims on the rebound side of the main piston. So I may remove one but replace it with a smaller diameter shim, moving down in size until I find the best results. I can't imagine a single 0.10mm thick shim being enough, but it might be.


I was a bit surprised at first when Ronnie recommend it to me but when I thought about it after I hung up it's just reacting to spring forces, unlike the compression side.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> I was a bit surprised at first when Ronnie recommend it to me but when I thought about it after I hung up it's just reacting to spring forces, unlike the compression side.


So? Did you go there and remove one of two on the rebound side? If so, what's your take on before and after? Plus, what bike, rider with gear weight and shock setup are you?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> So? Did you go there and remove one of two on the rebound side? If so, what's your take on before and after? Plus, what bike, rider with gear weight and shock setup are you?


Oh, ha yeah I did but it's part of my winter maintenance and new bike build (frame warranty end of season.) 175lbs geared on a SC HT-LT. Was previously running 190psi on my regular HT with no bands.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Oh, ha yeah I did but it's part of my winter maintenance and new bike build (frame warranty end of season.) 175lbs geared on a SC HT-LT. Was previously running 190psi on my regular HT with no bands.


Oh my. You've got to keep me posted. I weigh pretty much the same and ride a Bronson. Looking over my Shockwiz results spreadsheet I see I was running between 182-190psi in my main but with 3 bands on the positive and 2 on the negative. Bladder pressure was 170psi. The Shockwiz preferred the 182psi but my HSC and LSC was usually in the yellow, asking me to soften both. The reason your post confused me was both were in the red demanding I soften them a good bit until I went with the thinnest oil, Red Line Like Water. I see too though, most of the red results were at the higher 190psi mark.


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

I’m very new to suspension, and considering a Topaz. How do you make adjustments to the HSC and LSC when there is no external adjustment? I’m about 260 geared, and when I talked to Ronnie he suggested increasing the compression dampnig right off the bat. How do o fine tune it using a ShockWiz? Just bands and air pressure?


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

car_nut said:


> You're looking for flow port area, not volume. You're on the right track with one dimension being Pi * D. Then multiply that by the shim lift. This gives you the flow area at the periphery of the shim.
> 
> With that said, yes, that is a completely rudimentary approximation of what's going on. Yes, you have an angled shim on a flat face so you're reducing flow as you move away from the OD. It isn't at a 45 angle though, and the flow ports are 0.5mm inside of the shim OD though. What you also have going on is high velocity flow, through a port, making a right angle turn with no radius on the ID. The rough shim lift area also assumes constant flow on the whole diameter, which obviously isn't happening since there are three individual ports covering only ~1/2 the circumference. There's lots of literature out there that can explain it all far better than I. Cary I believe already referenced the ReStackor site which is quite good. They get into shim lift area here:
> ReStackor Valve Port Flow Area
> ...


Car_Nut did you ever come up with a good stack solution to the HSC issue? I flipped through the rest of the pages but didn't see anything. Sorry if I missed it.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Does anyone run the Topaz successfully without shim stack or other mods?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Curveball said:


> Does anyone run the Topaz successfully without shim stack or other mods?


yes, works great on my Tallboy LTC. I tuned it using air pressure and rebound. The bladder not really meant to be a tuning tool. The only change I may make is using lighter oil when I do a bleed. I'm approaching my first service interval.


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## zhendo (Aug 31, 2011)

askibum02 said:


> I'm very new to suspension, and considering a Topaz. How do you make adjustments to the HSC and LSC when there is no external adjustment? I'm about 260 geared, and when I talked to Ronnie he suggested increasing the compression dampnig right off the bat. How do o fine tune it using a ShockWiz? Just bands and air pressure?


There are no external adjustments to LSC or HSC, aside from using the 3 position compression lever. Pressure and bands are related to the air spring only, which has nothing to do with compression. If you buy the shock directly from DVO, they will tune it for you before shipping it out, or you can send a shock that you bought elsewhere to DVO for tuning. They tuned my Topaz for free (removed some of the stock rebound damping).

As a quick summary of how suspension works, the spring (air, in this case) is position sensitive, whereas damping (compression and rebound) is speed sensitive. This means that an air spring's support changes over the course of the shock stroke (e.g., it's always going to start ramping up at a certain point in the travel), whereas something like compression damping will vary with how hard you hit something. While you will be able to get the position aspect dialed with bands and air pressure, the compression damping will likely be too light for your weight, and the shock will likely blow through its travel or not feel "stable" over repeated hits.

At your weight, all of your suspension should likely be custom tuned, as you fall outside of the range that stock settings are designed to accommodate. DVO does ten to err on the side of more stock damping compared to other brands (at least in my experience), so you can always buy the shock and try it out before sending it in.


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## Raleighguy29 (Jan 7, 2014)

Curveball said:


> Does anyone run the Topaz successfully without shim stack or other mods?


I've been running a topaz and diamond with out any of these adjustments on my riot with no problems. Had it to 2 different bike parks and god k ones how many single track rides. I'm actually past due for service on both and they out perform any for or rockshox product I've had.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zhendo said:


> If you buy the shock directly from DVO, they will tune it for you before shipping it out, or you can send a shock that you bought elsewhere to DVO for tuning. They tuned my Topaz for free (removed some of the stock rebound damping).


Out of curiosity, what bike are you riding, weight with gear, and how hard do you ride? I'm thinking and have had Ronnie at DVO suggest I too lighten my rebound damping.


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## askibum02 (Jul 7, 2005)

zhendo said:


> There are no external adjustments to LSC or HSC, aside from using the 3 position compression lever. Pressure and bands are related to the air spring only, which has nothing to do with compression. If you buy the shock directly from DVO, they will tune it for you before shipping it out, or you can send a shock that you bought elsewhere to DVO for tuning. They tuned my Topaz for free (removed some of the stock rebound damping).
> 
> As a quick summary of how suspension works, the spring (air, in this case) is position sensitive, whereas damping (compression and rebound) is speed sensitive. This means that an air spring's support changes over the course of the shock stroke (e.g., it's always going to start ramping up at a certain point in the travel), whereas something like compression damping will vary with how hard you hit something. While you will be able to get the position aspect dialed with bands and air pressure, the compression damping will likely be too light for your weight, and the shock will likely blow through its travel or not feel "stable" over repeated hits.
> 
> At your weight, all of your suspension should likely be custom tuned, as you fall outside of the range that stock settings are designed to accommodate. DVO does ten to err on the side of more stock damping compared to other brands (at least in my experience), so you can always buy the shock and try it out before sending it in.


Thanks! Do you think I would be better off having Ronnie tune it from the get go, or running it with a Shockwiz to see what it says?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

askibum02 said:


> Thanks! Do you think I would be better off having Ronnie tune it from the get go, or running it with a Shockwiz to see what it says?


If you're handed at tuning suspension and can make shim stack adjustments on your own, go Shockwiz. Otherwise let DVO use their experience to get you into a range that you can work with.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

askibum02 said:


> Thanks! Do you think I would be better off having Ronnie tune it from the get go, or running it with a Shockwiz to see what it says?


Send it to Ronnie. A shock wiz won't tell you what to do with the shim stack or change the oil for you. Ronnie can rattle shim stack configurations off the top of his head. I've spoken to him and its impressive how helpful he is. DVO makes it a point to provide this level of personal service and support. You won't be disappointed...and if by some chance you are...they will make it right.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Curveball said:


> Does anyone run the Topaz successfully without shim stack or other mods?


Yes.

There is only one model of Topaz, and since it covers the entire range of leverage ratios and rider sizes, this exists to fine tune it.

Big picture - just getting the air pressure and dials right is enough for most people to have the Topaz be an improvement. Moving away from the middle of the road use case, there end up being areas where tweaking is required to get the most out of it, and because the architecture allows for end user tuning, it's possible to get a bespoke shock tune figured out that in other brand product lines would cost a pretty penny to get (and still may not be that well sorted out).


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

tehllama said:


> Yes.
> 
> There is only one model of Topaz, and since it covers the entire range of leverage ratios and rider sizes, this exists to fine tune it.
> 
> Big picture - just getting the air pressure and dials right is enough for most people to have the Topaz be an improvement. Moving away from the middle of the road use case, there end up being areas where tweaking is required to get the most out of it, and because the architecture allows for end user tuning, it's possible to get a bespoke shock tune figured out that in other brand product lines would cost a pretty penny to get (and still may not be that well sorted out).


And some of us can't wait to see what the Topaz 2 brings to the table. If it brings separate HSC, LSC, HSR & LSR knobs to the table, my original Topaz will get tabled as awesome as it has been.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

I run stock dampening and find it to work well, but I am 230 pounds. My son finds it works well at 150 pounds, but races Cat 2 and rides everything at Mach 5. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

IRBent said:


> And some of us can't wait to see what the Topaz 2 brings to the table. If it brings separate HSC, LSC, HSR & LSR knobs to the table, my original Topaz will get tabled as awesome as it has been.


When I ordered my topaz last week I asked about the T2. I was told that it will have the same functions as the current topaz, just in a different layout made to better fit tighter frames.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

buddiesconfusion said:


> When I ordered my topaz last week I asked about the T2. I was told that it will have the same functions as the current topaz, just in a different layout made to better fit tighter frames.


Well, that's a bubble buster.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Does anyone have a bladder for sale? I'm getting anxious waiting for these parts to show up. I'd gladly pay double just to get my shock going again.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

terrible said:


> Does anyone have a bladder for sale? I'm getting anxious waiting for these parts to show up. I'd gladly pay double just to get my shock going again.


Same part as the Jade bladder I believe...if that helps.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> Does anyone have a bladder for sale? I'm getting anxious waiting for these parts to show up. I'd gladly pay double just to get my shock going again.


Something just come to mind. What if the shortage has something to do with they're manufacturing is busy building the Topaz 2 and the bladder for it is different? Hopefully not to stop production for the original parts altogether.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

IRBent said:


> Something just come to mind. What if the shortage has something to do with they're manufacturing is busy building the Topaz 2 and the bladder for it is different? Hopefully not to stop production for the original parts altogether.


I have seen others (NS Dynamics) comment the T2 is proprietary to the Giant range and basically only that geometry because its the only way it will fit.

Think plenty other shocks will her the ability to get bladders very, very soon.......


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

If I was designing the Topaz2 and it also used a bladder I'd use the same bladder as the T1. I'm sure they aren't making rubber parts themselves so I'd guess they just have a supply shortage from the manufacturer unless there was some crazy shipping snafu.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

You are correct, verified with Ronnie, but those are not in stock anywhere either. If I can find a proper measurement for the jade fitting my Rip I may just pick one of those up so I can have something super cushy for the DH park this summer.



Doug said:


> Same part as the Jade bladder I believe...if that helps.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

USPS shows that I'll be getting my Topaz tomorrow.

I was recommended to set 3-4 clicks of rebound from closed. Does this mean 3-4 clicks from Full Slow which is from full +? or 3-4 clicks from Full Fast which is from full -?


Also, I need to add coupe of spacers. Do I need to grease O-Ring outside of canister when I put it back in? Or just install it as is?


Thanks


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

HaxEJxuK said:


> USPS shows that I'll be getting my Topaz tomorrow.
> 
> I was recommended to set 3-4 clicks of rebound from closed. Does this mean 3-4 clicks from Full Slow which is from full +? or 3-4 clicks from Full Fast which is from full -?
> 
> ...


full slow = full closed = + = righty tighty. You need to tighten it (righty tighty) towards + all the way and then back off 3-4 clicks.

You do not grease the exterior o-ring which holds the exterior air can sleeve on. You do what to make sure the inner o-rings that separate the positive and negative air chambers have a thin film on them. This stops you from cutting/pinching them when you slide the air can sleeve on.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> USPS shows that I'll be getting my Topaz tomorrow.
> 
> I was recommended to set 3-4 clicks of rebound from closed. Does this mean 3-4 clicks from Full Slow which is from full +? or 3-4 clicks from Full Fast which is from full -?
> 
> ...


3-4 clicks from fully closed. Wow.
Maybe I ride differently, easier trails, am a light weight compared to you, whatever, but my rebound is maybe 3 clicks closed from full open I do believe. But too, I wanted a shock that was really playful and moves easily.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

minimusprime said:


> full slow = full closed = + = righty tighty. You need to tighten it (righty tighty) towards + all the way and then back off 3-4 clicks.
> 
> You do not grease the exterior o-ring which holds the exterior air can sleeve on. You do what to make sure the inner o-rings that separate the positive and negative air chambers have a thin film on them. This stops you from cutting/pinching them when you slide the air can sleeve on.


Thank you very much! I think I got everything answered to set it up when I get it tomorrow. As far as outside O-Ring, I thought that's what I saw in video but being O-Ring, I was wondering if it still needed or not.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

IRBent said:


> 3-4 clicks from fully closed. Wow.
> Maybe I ride differently, easier trails, am a light weight compared to you, whatever, but my rebound is maybe 3 clicks closed from full open I do believe. But too, I wanted a shock that was really playful and moves easily.


I think I weight about 200-205lbs with all the gears(wasn't 100% sure since I haven't worked out over the winter) and that's what Ronnie recommended for my Hightower. If not weight, maybe different bike has to do something with it?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> I think I weight about 200-205lbs with all the gears(wasn't 100% sure since I haven't worked out over the winter) and that's what Ronnie recommended for my Hightower. If not weight, maybe different bike has to do something with it?


Glad to see you talked with Ronnie. I'm on a Bronson but 25-30 pounds lighter than you. Plus I'm positive I haven't worked out in years. LOL


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Rebound is based on spring, therefore weight. It's only 2-3 clicks more than we run IRBent.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Rebound is based on spring, therefore weight. It's only 2-3 clicks more than we run IRBent.


Yeah, and if I recall right, there's maybe only 8-9 clicks altogether. If so, 3 clicks closed from full open is only a click or 3 from his 3-4 clicks open from full closed.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Oh, but who are we fooling? Mine doesn't have "clicks" so I set it by mushes.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Yep, 9. Mine doesn't have sharp detents but I can tell if I'm careful and calm.


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

I gave up on trying to hear/feel the detents. I just go by 1/4 turns, which I think is actually pretty close to the actual clicks.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Sid Duffman said:


> I gave up on trying to hear/feel the detents. I just go by 1/4 turns, which I think is actually pretty close to the actual clicks.


I sorta did what you said but could almost feel what I thought was a detent. I think there's actually 3 detents per full revolution if the knob. I also think there was a bit of slop or dead space between full open/close before the first detent in either direction.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Oh great! Are you guys telling me that after buying Topaz, mounting kit and new grease, I now have to buy a stethoscope?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> Oh great! Are you guys telling me that after buying Topaz, mounting kit and new grease, I now have to buy a stethoscope?


Bwaaa ha ha ha....., maybe so unless your wife is the bionic women. If so she might be able to hear those detents with her super sonic hearing.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Actually have one more question.

Ronnie recommended to use slickoleum for spacer and O-Ring that sits in between positive and negative so I ordered SRAM butter grease. Ordered from Amazon thinking I would get in 2 days since I have Prime only to find out even though Amazon is the seller, it will take like 5 days to get it.

I saw in instruction to apply grease for O-Ring for bushing to mount. Should I wait till I get butter grease to apply? Or can I use Park Tools Polylube 1000 that I have already?

Thanks


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> Actually have one more question.
> 
> Ronnie recommended to use slickoleum for spacer and O-Ring that sits in between positive and negative so I ordered SRAM butter grease. Ordered from Amazon thinking I would get in 2 days since I have Prime only to find out even though Amazon is the seller, it will take like 5 days to get it.
> 
> ...


When it comes to the connection points to the bike, any decent bearing grease should do. But inside the shock I'd indeed recommend Slickoleum, Slick Honey, or SRAM Butter. All of which are the very same product (Slickoleum) just repackaged by Buzzy's or SRAM.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

IRBent said:


> When it comes to the connection points to the bike, any decent bearing grease should do. But inside the shock I'd indeed recommend Slickoleum, Slick Honey, or SRAM Butter. All of which are the very same product (Slickoleum) just repackaged by Buzzy's or SRAM.


Got it. I guess I'll use Polylube 1000 for O-Ring for bushing so I can mount Topaz tomorrow. Then use Butter Grease to add spacer when it gets here end of next week.


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## Idaho (Sep 29, 2013)

Vital MTB's just released review of the Topaz. Linking here as there is some good plainly written tuning bits within the article.

https://www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Rear-Shocks,35/DVO/Topaz-T3-Air,21607#product-reviews/3099


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I noticed v2 of the service guide is posted at dvo. It looks like the bleed processs is less messy. I recall there was a step that would get oil all over.

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/topaz_fullservicev2.pdf


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Yep, it is still messy though don't worry.

I have been thinking about this off and on recently and was curious of your thoughts. Last time I spoke with Ronnie about the Topaz I was talking about the main piston/valving in the stanchion and he referred to it as the mid-valve. This got me thinking, later, that if it's the mid-valve that means the valve in the piggyback is the real compression piston. I don't think it's been said expressly but I have, and I think we all have, been thinking that the piston in the stanchion is responsible for high speed compression and high speed rebound while the compression piston in the piggyback is only responsible for low speed compression.

If that's the case than it's a much more interesting and tunable setup. It would also explain car nut's confusion about the limited lift in the mid-valve and his failure in modifying it. I suppose that maybe enough oil can flow through the damper shaft into the piggyback to really be responsible for high speed compression?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

My bike packs up on repetitive high speed hits. I explained my concerns, or ride quality to Ronnie and he said to remove on of the rebound shims off the main piston. That sorta makes me think the main piston is responsible for high speed rebound. On some higher end shocks they include a second rebound knob for high speed rebound knob. So in the absence of a second rebound adjuster, the single knob must control slow speed rebound. This single knob on the Topaz in my mind controls flow out of the reservoir.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> My bike packs up on repetitive high speed hits. I explained my concerns, or ride quality to Ronnie and he said to remove on of the rebound shims off the main piston. That sorta makes me think the main piston is responsible for high speed rebound. On some higher end shocks they include a second rebound knob for high speed rebound knob. So in the absence of a second rebound adjuster, the single knob must control slow speed rebound. This single knob on the Topaz in my mind controls flow out of the reservoir.


It's absolutely high speed rebound (if you check out the rev2 service guide you can see the rebound knob in more detail and get a better idea of what it does. It's really just restricting flow from the piggyback through the damper shaft. On the other side of the piston there's a shim stack though which is the one that car nut focused on and I assumed that it was for high speed compression but I'm thinking now is really a mid-valve. That's how forks separate out their valving for instance when there are two valves at play.

Edit: also Ronnie made the same suggestion of removing a rebound shim to me just based on my weight. I didn't make a complaint about ride quality.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> It's absolutely high speed rebound (if you check out the rev2 service guide you can see the rebound knob in more detail and get a better idea of what it does. It's really just restricting flow from the piggyback through the damper shaft. On the other side of the piston there's a shim stack though which is the one that car nut focused on and I assumed that it was for high speed compression but I'm thinking now is really a mid-valve. That's how forks separate out their valving for instance when there are two valves at play.
> 
> Edit: also Ronnie made the same suggestion of removing a rebound shim to me just based on my weight. I didn't make a complaint about ride quality.


"It's absolutely high speed rebound". What is absolutely high speed rebound, the rebound knob adjuster or the shim stack on the nutted end of the main piston?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> "It's absolutely high speed rebound". What is absolutely high speed rebound, the rebound knob adjuster or the shim stack on the nutted end of the main piston?


Sorry! The shim stack is high speed rebound and the adjuster is low.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Sorry! The shim stack is high speed rebound and the adjuster is low.


I haven't ridden my bike since Dec 2nd and keep telling myself that I'll bust into the shock and remove one of the two 0.10mm thick x 16mm OD shims on the rebound side. But I haven't made up my mind if I should go all out or maybe toss a 12mm OD on in place of the 16mm Ronnie suggested removing. But with my slow speed rebound at maybe 3 clicks closed from full open, I could add a click or two more I'd think if things get too fast. From the Vorsprung Tuesday Tune videos I've studied, he says the low speed knob is the way to to control even your high speed rebound to some extent.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> I haven't ridden my bike since Dec 2nd and keep telling myself that I'll bust into the shock and remove one of the two 0.10mm thick x 16mm OD shims on the rebound side. But I haven't made up my mind if I should go all out or maybe toss a 12mm OD on in place of the 16mm Ronnie suggested removing. But with my slow speed rebound at maybe 3 clicks closed from full open, I could add a click or two more I'd think if things get too fast. From the Vorsprung Tuesday Tune videos I've studied, he says the low speed knob is the way to to control even your high speed rebound to some extent.


No adjustments are totally independent for sure. The deeper you are in your stroke the more force the spring is going to have though so when the flow through the adjuster is choked it's going to have to push those shims open and that neatly explains the issue you've been having. If I were you I'd take Ronnie's advice because I would guess that it wouldn't really affect that much of the stroke and if it was a touch fast at deep compression that would be better than too slow.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> If I were you I'd take Ronnie's advice because I would guess that it wouldn't really affect that much of the stroke and if it was a touch fast at deep compression that would be better than too slow.


Plus, if it's too fast and the low speed knob can't tame it, opening it back up and popping another shim in is easy peasy. Three months off the bike and playing Fallout 4 has me almost too lazy to even consider riding.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

Hey guys I got a new topaz because my frame shock mount did kill the last one and now with a new shock mount and the new topaz I really know what the word plush means.

In fact it is way to plush if I open the leaver. I can't feel anything else then my fork who could not keep up with the rear at the moment.
However I have enough options to set it up for the topaz but I can not lock the topaz like I wanted to climp hills and ride mallow trails with speed because my frame is in fact horrible to pedal. 
I used 2 different shocks bevor the topaz. CC DB Air with almost max clicks for the LSC and 3 turn's for the HSC. Also got the RS Super deluxe RC3. Both shocks did a better job to firm up the rear.

Here is the linkage design for better understanding:
Propain Spindrift 2017 - Linkage Design

Is there a way to get the topaz like the float x? Like to set up each leaver positions, that If closed it is really firm and still that plush open?

Another question is about the stroke length. My topaz comes in 230x60/65mm and I guess it has a spacer to make it possible to work for both 60 and 65mm of stroke. Is it possible to remove that spacer as a newbie and how to?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Serpentras D. said:


> In fact it is way to plush if I open the leaver. I can't feel anything else then my fork who could not keep up with the rear at the moment.
> However I have enough options to set it up for the topaz but I can not lock the topaz like I wanted to climp hills and ride mallow trails with speed because my frame is in fact horrible to pedal.
> I used 2 different shocks bevor the topaz. CC DB Air with almost max clicks for the LSC and 3 turn's for the HSC. Also got the RS Super deluxe RC3. Both shocks did a better job to firm up the rear.
> 
> ...


The Topaz does not have a strong platform. The LSC adjustment has a narrow range compared to many other shocks. Heavier oil might help a bit but not much. DVO may have a tune they could do for much better results.

However that bike won't ever pedal nice without a shock with a very high platform. You may need to find an older shock designed to have a true lockout if you want something that won't bob on climbs. That graph is one of the lowest anti-squat I've seen. As low or lower than DH bikes.

I'm afraid you are asking the Topaz to fix problems with you frame that DVO didn't intend to address.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

Well I know that this bike because its origin is a DH bike never will be the best thing uphill and I already did 50k and 8500ft last Sunday alone.
With a lot of equipment and a frozen landscape. 

All I want is to make a bit more firm when I flip the leaver.
The topaz is one of the few shocks who actually fit my bike. Older shocks don't come in metric sizes. Fox shocks can't be fitted into the frame because not enough clearance, only the DPS but this shock is actually to weak for my riding. 

If I change the stroke to 65mm this bike will have something around 195 mm travel.


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Serpentras D. said:


> Well I know that this bike because its origin is a DH bike never will be the best thing uphill and I already did 50k and 8500ft last Sunday alone.
> With a lot of equipment and a frozen landscape.
> 
> All I want is to make a bit more firm when I flip the leaver.
> ...


Did you try increasing the psi in the bladder?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Serpentras D. said:


> Well I know that this bike because its origin is a DH bike never will be the best thing uphill and I already did 50k and 8500ft last Sunday alone.
> With a lot of equipment and a frozen landscape.
> 
> All I want is to make a bit more firm when I flip the leaver.
> ...


If you take off the air can (not just the sleeve) you will see a plastic travel reducer around the damper shaft that you can unclip and remove. That is if it's a dual travel shock like the 200x50/57.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

crimedog said:


> If you take off the air can (not just the sleeve) you will see a plastic travel reducer around the damper shaft that you can unclip and remove. That is if it's a dual travel shock like the 200x50/57.


Thank you, I will look into that tomorrow. Do I need any special tools?



cadoretteboat said:


> Did you try increasing the psi in the bladder?


Yes but I am not sure at the moment how much it really is but I tried to get 200 PSI in it. I also have air volume spacers on the negative side installed.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Serpentras D. said:


> Thank you, I will look into that tomorrow. Do I need any special tools?
> 
> Yes but I am not sure at the moment how much it really is but I tried to get 200 PSI in it. I also have air volume spacers on the negative side installed.


No special tools, you just need a really good grip on the air can to unscrew it. I was able to do it without a strap wrench but used a tube around the can for grip.

Negative spacers are going to help out your bobbing but they hurt small bump compliance. You're going to be stuck making a compromise of some kind on a bike like that.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Doug said:


> The Topaz does not have a strong platform. The LSC adjustment has a narrow range compared to many other shocks. Heavier oil might help a bit but not much. DVO may have a tune they could do for much better results.
> 
> However that bike won't ever pedal nice without a shock with a very high platform. You may need to find an older shock designed to have a true lockout if you want something that won't bob on climbs. That graph is one of the lowest anti-squat I've seen. As low or lower than DH bikes.
> 
> I'm afraid you are asking the Topaz to fix problems with you frame that DVO didn't intend to address.


That graph looks like an antisquat curve from 2000. That bike is either not designed to climb with or for a very strong platform.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

crimedog said:


> No special tools, you just need a really good grip on the air can to unscrew it. I was able to do it without a strap wrench but used a tube around the can for grip.
> 
> Negative spacers are going to help out your bobbing but they hurt small bump compliance. You're going to be stuck making a compromise of some kind on a bike like that.


That is a tool I actually have hehe, thank you again.

Yes your right I will lose some of the small bump compliance and I don't want to create a awesome pedal platform out of that Spindrift.
It is what it is , more DH machine then enduro. I don't want to change that but I want to climb at a slow pace without the pain from old FR bikes.

The Topaz is really awesome for rough and gnarly DH sections and trails. Most of the time I ride there so I don't need to worry about that much for pedaling.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

I have been lurking in this thread for a while now trying to absorb the wealth of info and I finally feel compelled to post!

Quick info:
Bike: 2015 Kona Process 153
Rider: 210lb hack. "Send it" mentality, but skills don't quite match lol
Trails: Northeast chunk, Blue Mountain Bike Park, Mountain Creek

My experience:
Love this shock! Went with the Topaz about a year ago after blowing up the stock Monarch RT, a few DB Inlines, and a DB Air CS. So far, durability has been great, which I really appreciate. *knock on wood*

Initially, I quite enjoyed how plush the shock was. Pedaled well, ate everything up, handled misjudgments and general abuse well, and perhaps one of my favorite aspects, was super poppy when I wanted it to be (preloading, hitting jumps) yet very controlled. Great for bike parks and messing around on local trails, but I felt that a little something was something was missing. I just might have found it this afternoon!

For most of my time on the shock I ran 230-240 psi in the main can, 200psi in the bladder, 5 volume spacers in the positive side, and rebound set 3 or 4 mushes out from full in. The Process has a very linear suspension, so I was looking to dial some progression into the shock. As I mentioned, this set up felt great. I did notice that it would wallow/not support me as well as I wanted it to in berms and still would have a tendency to blow through it's travel at times. Mostly on landings to flat, but I felt like I was using more travel than necessary in general. I wasn't too bothered to change the settings, aside from bumping the pressure up to 240 towards the end of last season. I was, however, thinking about bumping up the shock oil to a slightly more viscous oil based off CSt charts floating around here: WPL 2.5wt. I want to bleed the shock and saw that some guys have had luck going with thinner oil so I was pondering going up in oil weight. Or playing with shims for a little more HSC. Because in my head, I am a master suspension tuner lol.

After combining info gleaned from this thread, reading the Vital review and reading an older review on the Topaz from mtb-mag, I decided to try for some more midstroke support and other marketing buzzwords by taking a spacer from the positive chamber and putting it in the negative chamber. I dropped the main can pressure 10psi, and sped up rebound by one click. I was expecting a harsher initial stroke and less bottom out resistance but figured I would give it a shot. The shock felt way stiffer pushing on the saddle in the parking lot, but it came to life on the trail. Which is primarily where I want my suspension to feel good.

Pedaling seemed more efficient maybe, but I also haven't ridden in a while so I was just happy to be out there and my legs were fresh. When I got to the fun stuff, whoa! The shock felt awesome! Definitely more support off the top and through the stroke. More bottom out resistance as well. A little more harshness, but I was not too bothered by it. The shock still felt pretty smooth to me, but I did not hit anything too chattery or chunky. The increased support in berms, and corners in general definitely outweighed any increase in harshness (so far). I might drop the bladder pressure to the 185-190 ballpark. Corners in generally just felt more precise or controlled, or for lack of a better term, less vague/mushy. Suspension just felt more taut without being overly harsh. Well, some quick rock/root hits sounded pretty nasty, but there weren't any new dents in my rims and the actual impact was none to jarring. So I guess that's kind of whatever. Hitting a 4' drop to kind of flat felt bottomless on the rear of the bike and I used less travel, which I was stoked on. Kinda washed for a token or 5 in the Pike up front, however! I also landed just a tad nose heavy.... The bike also popped better off lips, which I enjoyed. I did notice more of a bucking sensation if I got lazy and hit jumps like a squid. Overall, really happy with the outcome of moving a spacer to the negative side.

TL;DR: I added a spacer to the negative chamber and it worked out well for me.

Looking forward to seeing the information base in this thread continue to grow and for people to keep the Topaz stoke up!


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

CarolinaPanthers said:


> I might drop the bladder pressure to the 185-190 ballpark.


Don't. The bladder pressure is not a tuning tool. Lighter riders can get by with Lower bladder pressure for a slightly softer feel. However 10PSI lower than your weight is the general guiding for minimum bladder pressure. Otherwise you can get cavitation in the oil and rebound is very adversely affected.

What you can do is ditch that Pike and get a Diamond to match.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Doug said:


> Don't. The bladder pressure is not a tuning tool... Otherwise you can get cavitation in the oil and rebound is very adversely affected.


Good looking out! Thanks!


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## cadoretteboat (Aug 27, 2011)

Doug said:


> Don't. The bladder pressure is not a tuning tool. Lighter riders can get by with Lower bladder pressure for a slightly softer feel. However 10PSI lower than your weight is the general guiding for minimum bladder pressure. Otherwise you can get cavitation in the oil and rebound is very adversely affected.
> 
> What you can do is ditch that Pike and get a Diamond to match.


Sorry but for DVO (and for me) it seems to be.
http://tech.dvosuspension.com/tuning/topaztuning/understanding-the-bladder/


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

cadoretteboat said:


> Sorry but for DVO (and for me) it seems to be.
> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/tuning/topaztuning/understanding-the-bladder/


Changing bladder pressure supposedly moves the entire curve up or down per an early video where Bryson Jr. is setting up the Topaz on a Bronson. Then too, the language in the link above pretty much says the same thing but uses the sentence, "bladder pressure also has an effect on the entire stroke".

The bladder pressure also has an effect on the entire stroke of the shock. The higher the bladder pressure the firmer the shock will be. The lower the pressure, the softer. Lighter riders can run a lower bladder pressure and heavier riders should ride a higher pressure.

Watch the first few minutes of this video with Bryson Jr. doing tech talk and tuning the Topaz.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

While a tuning tool, can us big boys get ourselves in trouble running the bladder too low, since we should run it at higher pressure? With 230 in the main can, is there a ballpark PSI for the bladder that would get too low?


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## cryde (Oct 20, 2007)

Just got my Topaz but unfortunately still snowed in so haven't been on it yet except in my street. However, I did call DVO before installing on my bike and talked to Ronnie. 
I'm @ 210-215 geared up.
Ronnie suggested as a starting place:
225-230 Main can
190 Bladder
2 spacer Positive
1 spacer negative.

Again I have not been on it yet but thought I'd add some info as suggested by DVO.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

cryde said:


> Just got my Topaz but unfortunately still snowed in so haven't been on it yet except in my street. However, I did call DVO before installing on my bike and talked to Ronnie.
> I'm @ 210-215 geared up.
> Ronnie suggested as a starting place:
> 225-230 Main can
> ...


Know too, often the spacer recommendations have a fair amount to do with suspension leverage ratios and kinematics. Some bikes may need more or less spacers in either chamber. So, which bike did they recommend 2 positive and 1 negative?

Each spacer takes up a certain percentage of the volume in the chamber. Since the positive and negative chambers work together altering both by the same amount should keep the original pos/neg ratios. So a part of me wants to guess that 2 positive and 1 negative would be basically the same as 1 positive and 0 negative, taking one spacer off each. But to get a more active shock you could add equal number of extra spacer and lower main can pressure. Lower initial pressure allows things to get to moving sooner or easier. But it will also allow it to reach bottom out quicker and that's why an extra spacer is needed on the positive side, in order to help things ramp up faster near the end of the stroke. The extra spacers on the negative side helps support your weight at the beginning of the stroke in the absence of the extra few psi you'll drop out of the main can to maintain your desired sag. With that in mind I started out like Bryson Jr. recommended in the video link above for the Bronson, 1 spacer on the positive. I ended up adding 2 more to both positive and negative chambers for a total of 3 positive and 2 negative and lowering my main can pressure and my bladder pressure to achieve @ 30% sag. Currently for my riding style and terrain the setup is really good except occasionally my high speed rebound is a tad slow.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

CarolinaPanthers said:


> While a tuning tool, can us big boys get ourselves in trouble running the bladder too low, since we should run it at higher pressure? With 230 in the main can, is there a ballpark PSI for the bladder that would get too low?


Yes. VitalMTB has a good review that addresses the concern. Lower pressure reduces the shaft speed where cavitation happens. Cavitation means no rebound damping. 
https://m.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Rear-Shocks,35/DVO/Topaz-T3-Air,21607#product-reviews/3099

Lighter riders 180ish or less can use the full range to get the feel they like. Heavier riders can use less and less of that range.

It does allow some tuning and customization but is limited and not without negative effects for heavier riders. How you ride and main can pressure also figure into the equation. You can try it and see if you experience cavitation.


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## cryde (Oct 20, 2007)

Thanks IRBent...
This is on a Gen 1 Yeti SB5c.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

terrible said:


> Does anyone have a bladder for sale? I'm getting anxious waiting for these parts to show up. I'd gladly pay double just to get my shock going again.


Terrible, I called today because I wanted to see if I could buy the seal head for the Jade I just found on ebay for cheap since they were out of bladders and were told that they just got a shipment in yesterday. Hopefully you can get your shock sorted out finally!


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Thanks for the info!

I found a used jade in my size so now I can have a choice between two great shocks.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

terrible said:


> Thanks for the info!
> 
> I found a used jade in my size so now I can have a choice between two great shocks.


Me too, although I'm not sure if I'm going to keep both. I'm very excited to try the Jade out.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Pardon my ignorance, but if cavitation occurs, is that like a need to bleed the shock situation? Like has air been introduced to the oil or is there just not enough bladder pressure in that particular instance.Every now and again it feels like rebound damping isn't there. It mostly occurs on jump faces/natural lips, but that could just be a lack of technique.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

CarolinaPanthers said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but if cavitation occurs, is that like a need to bleed the shock situation? Like has air been introduced to the oil or is there just not enough bladder pressure in that particular instance.Every now and again it feels like rebound damping isn't there. It mostly occurs on jump faces/natural lips, but that could just be a lack of technique.


No. It is caused by a vacuum causing the oil to bubble. It will go away on it own, but if it occurs often, will shorten the service interval significantly.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

CarolinaPanthers said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but if cavitation occurs, is that like a need to bleed the shock situation? Like has air been introduced to the oil or is there just not enough bladder pressure in that particular instance.Every now and again it feels like rebound damping isn't there. It mostly occurs on jump faces/natural lips, but that could just be a lack of technique.


Cavitation is not to be confused with aeration. Cavitation is vacuum "bubbles" while aeration is when air gets in the oil.

When the shock cavitates there is no rebound damping. So it does sound like you are experiencing it. It happens when the shaft speed is fastest and the bladder doesn't have enough pressure to prevent the cavitation.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Ah bummer. I've been running the bladder at 200psi. Though it's been almost a season on it with some rough enduros and park days. Might just be time for a bleed and/or service


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## Jado (Apr 24, 2010)

*Red /Black Topaz*

I love the anodised green of DVO but some bikes colour schemes it's just plain wrong. My current bike is unfortunately not aligned to having green anodising.

So murdered out the green bits with black and new stickering sets the shock to match the bike.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Jado said:


> I love the anodised green of DVO but some bikes colour schemes it's just plain wrong. My current bike is unfortunately not aligned to having green anodising.
> 
> So murdered out the green bits with black and new stickering sets the shock to match the bike.
> 
> ...


Looking good. Which sticker company did you use? I went with Stikrd.com and added to the stock color to be even more matchy matchy with my Bronson.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

Jado said:


> I love the anodised green of DVO but some bikes colour schemes it's just plain wrong. My current bike is unfortunately not aligned to having green anodising.
> 
> So murdered out the green bits with black and new stickering sets the shock to match the bike.
> 
> ...


What did you do to change the green to Black for the levers and knobs?


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

Darksoul said:


> maybe try this and figure out if this work!!
> otherwise I try the first option!!
> thank a lot
> 
> ...


Im testing the single negative token but its very floaty and testing with only 2 negative tokens bike feels good working nice in the middle stroke and have nice bottom out!!
thanks a lot for the help my riot its best bike ever with best rear shock ever


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Got parts coming finally. No air can kit but the bladder and the damper kit are in stock.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Back together with a few changes. Removed one of the two shims on the bottom of the rebound piston and swapped to like water fluid. The rebound is definitely faster maybe too fast.

Also, when I did my bleed this time I left the bladder out and cycled the shock a lot and was able to see the fluid level and watch the bubbles come out and then installed the bladder after I removed the bleed syringe.

I will probably go back into it and put the shim back.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> Back together with a few changes. Removed one of the two shims on the bottom of the rebound piston and swapped to like water fluid. The rebound is definitely faster maybe too fast.
> 
> Also, when I did my bleed this time I left the bladder out and cycled the shock a lot and was able to see the fluid level and watch the bubbles come out and then installed the bladder after I removed the bleed syringe.
> 
> I will probably go back into it and put the shim back.


DVO suggested that I do the same. I'm on a 2015 SC Bronson and I weigh @ 180 with gear. Did you try using the low speed rebound knob to slow down the rebound any? Which bike are you riding and what's your weight?


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I'm on a 2017 niner rip rdo. I weigh 185 with all my stuff on. 

TBH I just bounced around the driveway after the change and have zero trail time on this new setup. It'll be a while before I ride it since I just picked up a jade coil to try.

The rebound knob does still work but I should have been more patient and tried either the "like water" fluid or the shim removal and not both at the same time.

I'll have a true ride report in a couple weeks.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> I'm on a 2017 niner rip rdo. I weigh 185 with all my stuff on.
> 
> TBH I just bounced around the driveway after the change and have zero trail time on this new setup. It'll be a while before I ride it since I just picked up a jade coil to try.
> 
> ...


I wanted a more active shock and quicker rebound so I changed my oil the Red Line 2.5W. That wasn't enough so changed it to the Like Water. I still occasionally pack up on repetitive high speed rough sections. After talking with Ronnie at DVO he suggested I do what you have done, remove one rebound shim off the main piston. I've yet to go there and seeing that you had really interests me. If you do get around to testing it I'd love to know the outcome.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Theoretically the lighter oil should only really affect the LSR and LSC as the piston/shims control the high speed and mid valve. If you were just bouncing around at proper pressure you probably weren't deep enough in the travel to test the shim change but you should have to turn the rebound adjuster in to match the oil change.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

My reason for wanting the change was even at 0-1 clicks of rebound the bike still felt sluggish. Like I was just out of the range for the adjuster. Now 5-6 clicks feels like the same static damping. 

You guys are making me think about tossing one shock in my camel back and swapping mid ride just to see how it works 😁


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

That sounds weird to me terrible. I am less heavier than you and I need a few clicks of rebound. There are some plastic washers that interface with the tube inside the damper shaft, maybe one of them got displaced and is blocking flow? Did you take out your rebound knob when you did the rebuild?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> That sounds weird to me terrible. I am less heavier than you and I need a few clicks of rebound. There are some plastic washers that interface with the tube inside the damper shaft, maybe one of them got displaced and is blocking flow? Did you take out your rebound knob when you did the rebuild?


Yeah, I've got my rebound knob 3-4 clicks closed from full open with Like Water to get the same feeling as I had with the slightly thicker factory oil.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

What air can lubricant do you guys like to use? From the service manual it looks like they are just giving it a light coat of slickoleum/slick honey?

With the air can off, do you guys get any play between the damper shaft and main seal head?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

half_man_half_scab said:


> What air can lubricant do you guys like to use? From the service manual it looks like they are just giving it a light coat of slickoleum/slick honey?


Yes, Slickoleum. It is what DVO uses and recommends.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Anyone have some tuning suggestions for a 2017 Specialized Enduro? 29 wheels, 160mm travel F&R. I weigh about 235 kitted up; my style is to keep the bike on the ground more or less and plow over/through obstacles. I was thinking 200psi in the bladder; maybe 260 in the main canister. Not sure on how many bands in either chamber though.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> Anyone have some tuning suggestions for a 2017 Specialized Enduro? 29 wheels, 160mm travel F&R. I weigh about 235 kitted up; my style is to keep the bike on the ground more or less and plow over/through obstacles. I was thinking 200psi in the bladder; maybe 260 in the main canister. Not sure on how many bands in either chamber though.


If I'm not mistaken, the Speshy rear suspension is really linear so I'd start out with 3-4 bands on the positive side. Go with 200psi in the bladder and whatever pressure it takes to get sag where you typically run it. Look and see how much travel you're using after several good rides and go from there, or come back here for more suggestions.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Definitely put in some negative spacers if you're putting in 2+ positive too. Symptoms of too few are too much pressure required to get to sag range, blow through beginning/mid travel, bike bobs around. I would err on the side of too few spacers to start so maybe 2+/1-. If you are bottoming it out add one to the positive and treat symptoms from there.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

IRBent and crimedog, thanks for the suggestions! Knew I came to the right place!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> IRBent and crimedog, thanks for the suggestions! Knew I came to the right place!


I'd love to know the outcome. You might be the first person on a Specialized to admit as much.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

IRBent said:


> I'd love to know the outcome. You might be the first person on a Specialized to admit as much.


Ha ha! I have wanted a slightly longer travel bike for a while now and I got a pretty good deal on a bike I don't need. It will probably be a week before I get it on the trail. Going to upgrade the damper in the Yari fork with a Charger 2 Damper and Luftkappe insert.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> Ha ha! I have wanted a slightly longer travel bike for a while now and I got a pretty good deal on a bike I don't need. It will probably be a week before I get it on the trail. Going to upgrade the damper in the Yari fork with a Charger 2 Damper and Luftkappe insert.


The Luftkappe was mandatory for me Pike after I tossed on the Topaz. Prior to that I thought my Pike was awesome. The Topaz is so buttery smooth it had me wondering what went wrong with my Pike. One Luftkappe later, butter on both ends of my Bronson. Sounds like you've got a good plan to butter up your ride too.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

rodzilla said:


> It will probably be a week before I get it on the trail. Going to upgrade the damper in the Yari fork with a Charger 2 Damper and Luftkappe insert.


Good call on the budget baller Lyrik. That fork will be awesome.

I'd actually suggest 3+ / 1 - for the moment, but be mentally prepared to drop another one in the negative side. I know it sounds strange, but you'll probably want to run closer to 250psi in the main (bladder 200 is spot on).

FWIW I'm 235 (before gear) anymore, and even with a more progressive leverage ratio setup I'm happier to run more volume spacers to get progression. For a slight penalty in needing to rely a bit on LSC to get pedaling platform (if you stare at the shock it'll seem wallowy, but I put down PRs on climbs despite that), the ability to track ground with a setup closer to what I'm describing is staggering, the rear tire is basically always on the ground through chatter and over rocks, I can get away with semislicks on aggressive terrain.

I think you'll bracket it in fairly quickly, sincd all the suggestions have been plus or minus one thing - I'm biased towards a more progressive air spring for something that won't see as much air time, but you may discover that it pedals too much like a couch for you.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

tehllama said:


> Good call on the budget baller Lyrik. That fork will be awesome.
> 
> I'd actually suggest 3+ / 1 - for the moment, but be mentally prepared to drop another one in the negative side. I know it sounds strange, but you'll probably want to run closer to 250psi in the main (bladder 200 is spot on).
> 
> ...


Good points. I worked on the shock last night and went 2+/1- with the spacers and around 260 in the main can. I am looking for a more "coil like" feel since I can't/won't do huge jumps and such. If I have time today I will try to ride as is and then report back my findings.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

Had about 10-12 rides on my Topaz and it has been fine other than a little harsh over the small stuff. 100 yards in to yesterday's ride the shock sinks all the way into the travel and gets stuck down. I thought that all of the positive pressure had gone but it still had 190psi. Called Ronnie at DVO and he said maybe one of the internal o-rings was nicked/cut and was causing the shock to catch. When I pulled the canister off it turned out that the middle o-ring had come completely out of the notch and was in the middle of the positive side. Anyone else have this happen? Anyway I reset the o-ring and it seems fine.


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## Serpentras D. (Nov 22, 2017)

noosa2 said:


> Had about 10-12 rides on my Topaz and it has been fine other than a little harsh over the small stuff. 100 yards in to yesterday's ride the shock sinks all the way into the travel and gets stuck down. I thought that all of the positive pressure had gone but it still had 190psi. Called Ronnie at DVO and he said maybe one of the internal o-rings was nicked/cut and was causing the shock to catch. When I pulled the canister off it turned out that the middle o-ring had come completely out of the notch and was in the middle of the positive side. Anyone else have this happen? Anyway I reset the o-ring and it seems fine.


Kinda of that yes, after I get the canister off there was a bang involved 
In my case I put to much grease on the chamber with the spacers. Just cleaned it and it is working normal again.


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## TurboWolf 29er (Sep 27, 2015)

*Sure did*



noosa2 said:


> Had about 10-12 rides on my Topaz and it has been fine other than a little harsh over the small stuff. 100 yards in to yesterday's ride the shock sinks all the way into the travel and gets stuck down. I thought that all of the positive pressure had gone but it still had 190psi. Called Ronnie at DVO and he said maybe one of the internal o-rings was nicked/cut and was causing the shock to catch. When I pulled the canister off it turned out that the middle o-ring had come completely out of the notch and was in the middle of the positive side. Anyone else have this happen? Anyway I reset the o-ring and it seems fine.


This is same thing that happened to me just yesterday. When i got off my bike after mobbing all the way down the Hill. This is what it looked like.Then i had to ride it other 3 miles home. Not Fun!


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

TurboWolf 29er said:


> This is same thing that happened to me just yesterday. When i got off my bike after mobbing all the way down the Hill. This is what it looked like.Then i had to ride it other 3 miles home. Not Fun!


Exactly what mine looked like too. Curious to see what you discover when you pull the canister off.


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## TurboWolf 29er (Sep 27, 2015)

noosa2 said:


> Exactly what mine looked like too. Curious to see what you discover when you pull the canister off.


 I discovered the same exact thing is you the middle O ring had came out of it's notch and was in the middle of the positive side the only thing I could think of is that we need to use more lube so it slides over the O ring easier and stays in its notch. Put all back together an it seems fine.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Standard answer to most questions, use more lube!


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

tehllama said:


> Good call on the budget baller Lyrik. That fork will be awesome.
> 
> I'd actually suggest 3+ / 1 - for the moment, but be mentally prepared to drop another one in the negative side. I know it sounds strange, but you'll probably want to run closer to 250psi in the main (bladder 200 is spot on).
> 
> ...





rodzilla said:


> Good points. I worked on the shock last night and went 2+/1- with the spacers and around 260 in the main can. I am looking for a more "coil like" feel since I can't/won't do huge jumps and such. If I have time today I will try to ride as is and then report back my findings.


So I went out on the first ride with my "Yarik" and the Topaz. I thought the shock was off until I realized the fork had been in firm mode for most of the ride... Anyway, after putting the fork in the open mode, I noticed that I had more "pop" than usual for me, which isn't a bad thing I guess. So the shock is set up as posted in my quote. Do I reduce pressure in the main from here if I like the "pop" but want a little better small compliance? Or do I need to add/subtract spacers from either side to get small bump compliance while still being able to hit 1-3 feet drops?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

rodzilla said:


> Do I reduce pressure in the main from here if I like the "pop" but want a little better small compliance? Or do I need to add/subtract spacers from either side to get small bump compliance while still being able to hit 1-3 feet drops?


Fewer negative spacers helps with small bump compliance, but does reduce midstroke support. One of the biggest changes I made to get better small bump compliance was a RWC bearing in the pivot. That got rid of most of the remaining break away force. The Topaz has low breakaway force but shock bushings can be pretty stiff.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

noosa2 said:


> Exactly what mine looked like too. Curious to see what you discover when you pull the canister off.


is this something can can do done on trail ? unscrew can and move o-ring
or is this more major ?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

127.0.0.1 said:


> is this something can can do done on trail ? unscrew can and move o-ring
> or is this more major ?


Moving the O-ring between positive and negation chambers can be done trailside. But if lack of grease was the cause, having grease on the trail may not be possible.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

127.0.0.1 said:


> is this something can can do done on trail ? unscrew can and move o-ring
> or is this more major ?


yes, but of course you would need a shock pump. A tire pump won't get the job done. Be careful no dirt or other contaminants gets in there as well.


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

Mine was also leaking air through the o-ring between positive and negative chambers. The o-ring got caught by the canister during reasembly.
Unfortunately the seal in my case got a bit stretched or mangled and didnt seal even after proper reasembly. The shock would steadily leak air between the chambers until it hit bottom after maybe 10 minutes.
As this happened to me trailside and many subsequent reasemblies didnt fix it, I had to resort to removing original o-ring and use the o-ring for sag measurrment instead. The sag one is a lot smaller, and quite a bit thicker, but that did even out by the time I stretched it into the gap.

Worked like a charm, and still does for over 6 months now.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

same thing happened to my topaz when i first set it up. I got a replacement o-ring from ronnie at dvo and i have not had the issue since. I do exercise extreme caution when installing the air can sleeve and i am careful to make sure that separator oring is properly greased.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm on my second Topaz. On my first Topaz my O-ring to separate the chambers kinda fell apart. I went to the hardware store and bought a few of similar size. Went with a slightly thicker o-ring and that has worked really well for me. And enough grease of course.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Doug said:


> Fewer negative spacers helps with small bump compliance, but does reduce midstroke support. One of the biggest changes I made to get better small bump compliance was a RWC bearing in the pivot. That got rid of most of the remaining break away force. The Topaz has low breakaway force but shock bushings can be pretty stiff.


I have looked at those bearings before but I don't know if it would benefit the Enduro that much? It's connected by a yoke and the upper pivot point doesn't move from what I can see. I would have to replace the bearings in the yoke but would that really make a difference? Maybe one spacer in the positive and slightly less pressure in the main can, like 245-250?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> So I went out on the first ride with my "Yarik" and the Topaz. I thought the shock was off until I realized the fork had been in firm mode for most of the ride... Anyway, after putting the fork in the open mode, I noticed that I had more "pop" than usual for me, which isn't a bad thing I guess. So the shock is set up as posted in my quote. Do I reduce pressure in the main from here if I like the "pop" but want a little better small compliance? Or do I need to add/subtract spacers from either side to get small bump compliance while still being able to hit 1-3 feet drops?


I'll tell you my take on the overall function and let others point me out if I'm wrong. My theory is simple in a sense that lower pressure allows the shock to move more freely especially in small bump compliance and early stroke. So if you want the shock to be very active lower pressure and add bands. Bands on the positive will make the shock more progressive and keep it from bottoming out. More bands on the negative will allow it to support you more even at lower pressure as it moves the entire curve upward across the entire stroke. So, did you ride all out hitting the biggest and ugliest stuff you ride and did it use all of your travel? If not, drop pressure and it will increase sag, add small bump compliance and ease you toward using all of your travel. If dropping pressure a bit causes you to bottom out, out a band to the positive. If dropping pressure causes you to sag excessively, say 40%, then a band on the negative side. If you need more support across the spectrum, add pressure to the main. Alternatively more pressure in the bladder also slows shock movement down across the range of travel. I know I didn't answer your question but hopefully armed you with ideas on how to figure out what's best for you. If I've only confused you, shoot back and I'll do my best to confuse you further. LOL Or, if I'm dead wrong in my line of thinking, someone please help us all. Sharing is caring.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

IRBent said:


> I'll tell you my take on the overall function and let others point me out if I'm wrong. My theory is simple in a sense that lower pressure allows the shock to move more freely especially in small bump compliance and early stroke. So if you want the shock to be very active lower pressure and add bands. Bands on the positive will make the shock more progressive and keep it from bottoming out. More bands on the negative will allow it to support you more even at lower pressure as it moves the entire curve upward across the entire stroke. So, did you ride all out hitting the biggest and ugliest stuff you ride and did it use all of your travel? If not, drop pressure and it will increase sag, add small bump compliance and ease you toward using all of your travel. If dropping pressure a bit causes you to bottom out, out a band to the positive. If dropping pressure causes you to sag excessively, say 40%, then a band on the negative side. If you need more support across the spectrum, add pressure to the main. Alternatively more pressure in the bladder also slows shock movement down across the range of travel. I know I didn't answer your question but hopefully armed you with ideas on how to figure out what's best for you. If I've only confused you, shoot back and I'll do my best to confuse you further. LOL Or, if I'm dead wrong in my line of thinking, someone please help us all. Sharing is caring.


Thank you for the feedback; pretty easy to understand. What I rode was relatively mild and not even close to feeling like I would bottom out. I think I will drop the pressure a little and see if I hit too much sag. I heard someone that went 3+/2- with the Topaz and Enduro. i may very well end up there in the long run.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I'm 3+/2- on my Santa Cruz Bronson but I only weight in at 185lbs dressed and set things up to be plush and very active. I've dropped my oil down to Red Line Like Water to allow more oil flow as well. While the same settings may apply to a heavier person I'd assume the difference would be main can pressure and bladder pressure. I have both of mine about as low as I can get them so the shock moves very easy, yet the 3+ bands keeps me from bottoming out on 2'-3' drops. I've yet to hit anything larger.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Hi everyone! New topaz owner here. First off let me just start by saying holy frictionless! I actually came from dvo jade on my trail bike to bring back that pop and have some assist in climbing and I'm very impressed so far. Here's what I got

230 lb rider
2016 banshee rune 
Like in the Pacific Northwest so it's wet roots loam.
Biggest jump I'm doing is about 15 feet
Biggest drop I've done is about 10 feet
This bikes sees all the trail chunk too

I know that's just a snap shot but you get the picture. I asked a guy on here for any advice on initial setup but I also wanted to hear what you guys think.heres what I got

215 main chamber
200 bladder
1 pos
2 neg
Rebound wide open

So this has been pretty good at a local bike park I got near me but I've managed to bottom out this sucker here already. I can't imagine and abuse it'll see when I climb up a mtn. I feel like it's super active. The compressions knobs don't really do anything... and lastly I am bottoming out. I haven't gotten the sag meter ring to pop off yet from a harsh one but I'm pretty sure I'm using 99% on tame trails. When I asked the guy on the forum what he thought he suggest adding more negative spacers. I was anticipating him saying add a positive... I suppose my bike wallows a lot and my compression knob does nothing so he's trying to change the negative spring side to get the air spring down in pressure?

I'm stumped. What do you guys think?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Junersun said:


> Hi everyone! New topaz owner here. First off let me just start by saying holy frictionless! I actually came from dvo jade on my trail bike to bring back that pop and have some assist in climbing and I'm very impressed so far. Here's what I got
> 
> 230 lb rider
> 2016 banshee rune
> ...


If it feels good over the roots, rocks and other smaller stuff, and you're not sitting at excessive sag, adding a spacer or two on the positive side will allow the pressure to ramp up quicker on the big hits and might be enough to keep you from bottoming out. The negative spacers allow the entire curve to move upward and give you more support in the initial part of the stroke. I'd suggest adding 2 more spacers to the positive side, pump up the can to get 30% sag and give that a few good rides before making any changes.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Junersun, right off the bat I think your air pressure is too low, you need positive bands, and you need to turn that rebound knob in. I don't know that bike but based on what you ride I'd throw two positive bands in, pump up to 25-30% sag, and start with five clicks of rebound (plan on adding more.) From there you can start making changes but you'll probably need to run different settings when you're hitting the bike park vs trail riding if you're doing 10ft drops.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Junersun said:


> Hi everyone! New topaz owner here. First off let me just start by saying holy frictionless! I actually came from dvo jade on my trail bike to bring back that pop and have some assist in climbing and I'm very impressed so far. Here's what I got
> 
> 230 lb rider
> 2016 banshee rune
> ...


Have you check with Ronnie from DVO?

Settings that he gave me(200lbs) was

225-235 psi main chamber
190-200 reservoir
2-3 spacers in the positive chamber
3-4 clicks of rebound from closed

I would think you would have to put more air in main chamber and more spacers in positive since you are about 30lbs heavier than me?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Rune is lower leverage than many with the 2.5 travel shock on a 160mm travel. I would still expect your main pressure to be higher, 230-240 psi. I would try 240 psi and play with the negative spacers to get your initial travel correct, then positive to control bottoming. I would expect you will probably end up with 3 positive spacers as you are hitting pretty big stuff. Also, you will likely have to run less sag than normal, 10 foot drops and great small bump compliance are hard to get with the same setup on a 160mm bike. 


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

you all seem like you are leading me in the same direction so that's reassurring.

I will try to pump more air into the system. Maybe I didn't have enough air which was why I'm full open on rebound but I felt the shock was returning pretty slowly. I imagine with more air, I'll need some rebound dampening. I'm not on my bike now but I could have sworn that 215 got me to 28 (ish) % sag.

starting to think since I wasn't have fully bottoming out or feeling harsh, maybe my recommendation came to me because I needed to bring the spring curve higher through the entire travel which adding another negative spacer could achieve?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Junersun said:


> you all seem like you are leading me in the same direction so that's reassurring.
> 
> I will try to pump more air into the system. Maybe I didn't have enough air which was why I'm full open on rebound but I felt the shock was returning pretty slowly. I imagine with more air, I'll need some rebound dampening. I'm not on my bike now but I could have sworn that 215 got me to 28 (ish) % sag.
> 
> starting to think since I wasn't have fully bottoming out or feeling harsh, maybe my recommendation came to me because I needed to bring the spring curve higher through the entire travel which adding another negative spacer could achieve?


Part of the issue is how the negative bands affect what air pressure you end up at. The smaller the negative air spring (more bands) the less force it exerts so you end up needing less pressure in the positive air chamber to get to the same sag percentage. Even though they are increasing the spring mid-stroke support you're lowering the air pressure so you're moving the whole curve down. Normally I'd want to start with no bands and work your way up based on results but since you're relatively heavy and are hitting big stuff you are pretty safe jumping up to the suggestions above.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Junersun said:


> you all seem like you are leading me in the same direction so that's reassurring.
> 
> I will try to pump more air into the system. Maybe I didn't have enough air which was why I'm full open on rebound but I felt the shock was returning pretty slowly. I imagine with more air, I'll need some rebound dampening. I'm not on my bike now but I could have sworn that 215 got me to 28 (ish) % sag.
> 
> starting to think since I wasn't have fully bottoming out or feeling harsh, maybe my recommendation came to me because I needed to bring the spring curve higher through the entire travel which adding another negative spacer could achieve?


So if you're at 28% sag with 2 negative bands, move one of them to the positive side and add air to the main to get back to that 28-30% sag range. Also make sure you're adding small increments of air and cycling the shock to equalize positive and negative chambers until you get to the sag point.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

IRBent said:


> So if you're at 28% sag with 2 negative bands, move one of them to the positive side and add air to the main to get back to that 28-30% sag range. Also make sure you're adding small increments of air and cycling the shock to equalize positive and negative chambers until you get to the sag point.


The cycling is very important. You will hear it equalize and it is best to do every 50 psi.

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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

crimedog said:


> Junersun, right off the bat I think your air pressure is too low, you need positive bands, and you need to turn that rebound knob in. I don't know that bike but based on what you ride I'd throw two positive bands in, pump up to 25-30% sag, and start with five clicks of rebound (plan on adding more.) From there you can start making changes but you'll probably need to run different settings when you're hitting the bike park vs trail riding if you're doing 10ft drops.


Thanks for the input! Unfortunately the trail riding I do involve that 10 ft drop so I'm trying to find a happy medium between being able to get support on the drops and smash through the roots.

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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Junersun said:


> Thanks for the input! Unfortunately the trail riding I do involve that 10 ft drop so I'm trying to find a happy medium between being able to get support on the drops and smash through the roots.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's tough. You will have to do some work to find a compromise. You may end up having to run high pressures with positive bands for added ramp up and remove negative bands for a more supple beginning. This may lead to pedal bob though. You should probably talk to DVO and see what they suggest, they may be able to revalve your HSC stack. Ronnie's out of the office for a few days though, FYI.


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

Cary said:


> The cycling is very important. You will hear it equalize and it is best to do every 50 psi.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Make sure you disconnect the pump before cycling shock. You can blown the Schrader valve seal. ( I know, cuz I did it)


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Cary said:


> The cycling is very important. You will hear it equalize and it is best to do every 50 psi.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


yes to this

my first airing up the shock would seem to seize and lock me out at 150 psi and WTF I sez....
so I diddled around and through cycling it and pumping it got out of that mode
and now is normal

so yeah a new topaz cannot be aired up from flat, to past 150 and just work, it'll be a brick. it takes some massaging and cycling in steps to fill all the chambers . then it's butter.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

I am certainly not concerned about revalving and opening up the shocks myself. maybe a call to Ronnie would be the way to go. I'll give all of your suggestions a try first! thanks guy. I'll report back (got a baby at home so rides are a little fewer these days)



crimedog said:


> That's tough. You will have to do some work to find a compromise. You may end up having to run high pressures with positive bands for added ramp up and remove negative bands for a more supple beginning. This may lead to pedal bob though. You should probably talk to DVO and see what they suggest, they may be able to revalve your HSC stack. Ronnie's out of the office for a few days though, FYI.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

661lee said:


> Make sure you disconnect the pump before cycling shock. You can blown the Schrader valve seal. ( I know, cuz I did it)


I've never seen this in any of DVO's manuals. Is this new?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

buddiesconfusion said:


> I've never seen this in any of DVO's manuals. Is this new?


My shock pump has the engagement but that you can run down to depress the Schrader valve. Rather than disconnecting it, I'd just run the nut out to close the valve. It's critical to do that or completely disconnect if you're trying to calibrate a Shockwiz as the pump hose will change the air volume and your compression ratio.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

IRBent said:


> . It's critical to do that or completely disconnect if you're trying to calibrate a Shockwiz as the pump hose will change the air volume and your compression ratio.


Im a little confused by this. I'm not using a shockwiz. Just the standard issue DVO suspension pump.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

buddiesconfusion said:


> Im a little confused by this. I'm not using a shockwiz. Just the standard issue DVO suspension pump.


Yeah, my comment wasn't directed exactly at you as a fix. Just offering understanding so I thought. But let's just say this, it's probably never a good idea to cycle your shock with the Schrader valve open.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

IRBent said:


> Yeah, my comment wasn't directed exactly at you as a fix. Just offering understanding so I thought. But let's just say this, it's probably never a good idea to cycle your shock with the Schrader valve open.


Gotcha, thanks.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

rodzilla said:


> I'm on my second Topaz. On my first Topaz my O-ring to separate the chambers kinda fell apart. I went to the hardware store and bought a few of similar size. Went with a slightly thicker o-ring and that has worked really well for me. And enough grease of course.


I might go this route. After the first "stuck-down" I put on plenty of grease but had the same thing happen mid ride today. Seems like the middle o-ring is way too thin and is slightly larger in diameter than it needs to be...


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Have been playing around some more with the Enduro and the Topaz. The fork is solid at 90 psi and I used almost all my travel for the first timer ever. Very happy about this. I am running the Topaz @ 250 main can/200 bladder 3+/2-, rebound 3 clicks in from closed. Small bump feels excellent IMO but I am wondering if I need more mid stroke support and if so how to go about it w/o too much impact (if possible) to the small bump. I changed my cranks from 170 to 175 and I am finding that occasionally that my pedal hits the ground. I am pretty good @ ratcheting so the contact isn't me not paying paying attention; more of just a natural completion of the pedal stroke. The easiest options in my mind are:

1. Increase main can pressure to maybe 270, 280 and lose small bump
2. Add another positive spacer ( not sure if that would help)

Any suggestions?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

rodzilla said:


> Have been playing around some more with the Enduro and the Topaz. The fork is solid at 90 psi and I used almost all my travel for the first timer ever. Very happy about this. I am running the Topaz @ 250 main can/200 bladder 3+/2-, rebound 3 clicks in from closed. Small bump feels excellent IMO but I am wondering if I need more mid stroke support and if so how to go about it w/o too much impact (if possible) to the small bump. I changed my cranks from 170 to 175 and I am finding that occasionally that my pedal hits the ground. I am pretty good @ ratcheting so the contact isn't me not paying paying attention; more of just a natural completion of the pedal stroke. The easiest options in my mind are:
> 
> 1. Increase main can pressure to maybe 270, 280 and lose small bump
> 2. Add another positive spacer ( not sure if that would help)
> ...


Option 1 works the best and very easy to experiment with. Pull out a negative spacer if too much small bump is sacrificed.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

rodzilla said:


> Have been playing around some more with the Enduro and the Topaz. The fork is solid at 90 psi and I used almost all my travel for the first timer ever. Very happy about this. I am running the Topaz @ 250 main can/200 bladder 3+/2-, rebound 3 clicks in from closed. Small bump feels excellent IMO but I am wondering if I need more mid stroke support and if so how to go about it w/o too much impact (if possible) to the small bump. I changed my cranks from 170 to 175 and I am finding that occasionally that my pedal hits the ground. I am pretty good @ ratcheting so the contact isn't me not paying paying attention; more of just a natural completion of the pedal stroke. The easiest options in my mind are:
> 
> 1. Increase main can pressure to maybe 270, 280 and lose small bump
> 2. Add another positive spacer ( not sure if that would help)
> ...


Negative spacers provide more mid stroke support. The entire spring curve will increase. Small bump compliance is reduced a bit. This is probably the best way to get what you want.

A positive spacer will reduce sag a bit and make it more progressive, but not help mid stroke.

Higher main can pressure will also improve mid stroke, but also reduce small bump compliance and end stroke (make it harder to use all travel).


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Doug said:


> Negative spacers provide more mid stroke support. The entire spring curve will increase. Small bump compliance is reduced a bit. This is probably the best way to get what you want.
> 
> A positive spacer will reduce sag a bit and make it more progressive, but not help mid stroke.
> 
> Higher main can pressure will also improve mid stroke, but also reduce small bump compliance and end stroke (make it harder to use all travel).


This is what I'm also experimenting with my setup. I don't like upping the air pressure because it affects my sag point but it does help with the mid support. I have also been able to achieve the same feel by keeping the air pressure relatively the same but adding a negative spacer.

Has anyone played with the rebound shim stack like a couple online review articles state? I'm having a hard time with my circuit. If I make it too fast then it's too poppy but too slow then successive hits feel a little overwhelmed. I would like to speed up my hsr and then slow down my lsr...

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Junersun said:


> This is what I'm also experimenting with my setup. I don't like upping the air pressure because it affects my sag point but it does help with the mid support. I have also been able to achieve the same feel by keeping the air pressure relatively the same but adding a negative spacer.
> 
> Has anyone played with the rebound shim stack like a couple online review articles state? I'm having a hard time with my circuit. If I make it too fast then it's too poppy but too slow then successive hits feel a little overwhelmed. I would like to speed up my hsr and then slow down my lsr...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Numerous posts ago, you'll find someone posted pics of the shims stacks, compression and rebound. There are only 2 rebound shims, both 0.1mm thick by 16mm OD. Ronnie at DVO suggested that I remove one of my rebound shims because mine will occasionally pack up on repetitive hits. Stair cases do it in. Vorsprung Suspension has numerous videos discussing rebound and one I'm sure says low speed rebound highly affects the high speed rebound. I think he suggests running the high speed so it rebounds really quick then using the low speed rebound to tame it.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Numerous posts ago, you'll find someone posted pics of the shims stacks, compression and rebound. There are only 2 rebound shims, both 0.1mm thick by 18mm OD. Ronnie at DVO suggested that I remove one of my rebound shims because mine will occasionally pack up on repetitive hits. Stair cases do it in. Vorsprung Suspension has numerous videos discussing rebound and one I'm sure says low speed rebound highly affects the high speed rebound. I think he suggests running the high speed so it rebounds really quick then using the low speed rebound to tame it.


I did get a chance to read every thread on this forum before pulling the trigger on the shock, I just didn't know if anyone actually modded their topaz yet and had some insight on the feel.

Yesi was thinking either taking one shim out or replacing the outer shim with one half its diameter size just so I could control the "blow off" hsr would see. Maybe that would allow my rebound knob to really slow down.

Any real world experiences on this would be greatly appreciated.

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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Junersun said:


> This is what I'm also experimenting with my setup. I don't like upping the air pressure because it affects my sag point but it does help with the mid support. I have also been able to achieve the same feel by keeping the air pressure relatively the same but adding a negative spacer.
> 
> Has anyone played with the rebound shim stack like a couple online review articles state? I'm having a hard time with my circuit. If I make it too fast then it's too poppy but too slow then successive hits feel a little overwhelmed. I would like to speed up my hsr and then slow down my lsr...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ronnie makes that suggestion for lighter weight riders, I don't think that's what you want to do. Frankly I'm surprised about your feedback and don't know what to suggest. You should definitely speak with Ronnie.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

crimedog said:


> Ronnie makes that suggestion for lighter weight riders, I don't think that's what you want to do. Frankly I'm surprised about your feedback and don't know what to suggest. You should definitely speak with Ronnie.


Thanks. Noted. I'm trying to really get to the point by myself and with the suggestions from you guys before giving them a call. This way I've tried it all and I can have the talk about custom valving, oil, etc. I'm no pro so I'm practically there... prob could live very happily with the settings I got.... but I'm also a tinkerer....

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Junersun said:


> Thanks. Noted. I'm trying to really get to the point by myself and with the suggestions from you guys before giving them a call. This way I've tried it all and I can have the talk about custom valving, oil, etc. I'm no pro so I'm practically there... prob could live very happily with the settings I got.... but I'm also a tinkerer....
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm a tinkering and one who wants to understand why it works. I'm also the guy who reads these posts but never remembers who posted what. With that said, Ronnie made the suggestion of removing one rebound shim to me after we discussed my situation. I weigh in around 180-185 with gear if that helps. For me, I wanted a soft plush ride while still having support and small bump compliance. I started out with higher pressures and few tuning bands but the higher pressures also felt as if the small bump compliance was affected too much. So I dropped a few psi and tossed in a band on the negative side. I still have small bump mush and support. But the lower pressure may be why my rebound is a tad slow, there's just not enough pressure to help force things back. I had already dropped the oil viscosity to the lightest oil made in attempt to speed up my rebound. So now I'm to a point that I've either got to live with it, add pressure back to the main can in hope that will help rebound, or do a shim stack adjustment. Note too that I'm about to go back and fix my previous post. I wrote the rebound shims were 18mm in OD when the pic shows them at 16mm. A reply above asked or talked about maybe using a smaller OD shim for the second shim. With the backer at 11mm and the original shim at 16mm, you're left with only 2 options, a 14mm or 12mm shim. I've yet to play with those but I've tossed the idea around in my head all winter. I wish I had a definitive answer on how that adjustment would feel.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

IRBent said:


> I'm a tinkering and one who wants to understand why it works. I'm also the guy who reads these posts but never remembers who posted what. With that said, Ronnie made the suggestion of removing one rebound shim to me after we discussed my situation. I weigh in around 180-185 with gear if that helps. For me, I wanted a soft plush ride while still having support and small bump compliance. I started out with higher pressures and few tuning bands but the higher pressures also felt as if the small bump compliance was affected too much. So I dropped a few psi and tossed in a band on the negative side. I still have small bump mush and support. But the lower pressure may be why my rebound is a tad slow, there's just not enough pressure to help force things back. I had already dropped the oil viscosity to the lightest oil made in attempt to speed up my rebound. So now I'm to a point that I've either got to live with it, add pressure back to the main can in hope that will help rebound, or do a shim stack adjustment. Note too that I'm about to go back and fix my previous post. I wrote the rebound shims were 18mm in OD when the pic shows them at 16mm. A reply above asked or talked about maybe using a smaller OD shim for the second shim. With the backer at 11mm and the original shim at 16mm, you're left with only 2 options, a 14mm or 12mm shim. I've yet to play with those but I've tossed the idea around in my head all winter. I wish I had a definitive answer on how that adjustment would feel.


So have you removed that shim yet? Did you end up having to slow down the rebound knob due to it returning really fast?

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Junersun said:


> So have you removed that shim yet? Did you end up having to slow down the rebound knob due to it returning really fast?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No, I have not gone there yet. As a matter of fact, I've only ridden my bike twice since early December. I'm getting old, fat, and lazy. I bought some Hope Tech E3 brakes hoping they might make me wanna ride again.


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## noosa2 (May 20, 2004)

noosa2 said:


> I might go this route. After the first "stuck-down" I put on plenty of grease but had the same thing happen mid ride today. Seems like the middle o-ring is way too thin and is slightly larger in diameter than it needs to be...


I called DVO today to let them know that my shock got stuck down for a second time. I was told that Ronnie was out of the shop for a week or two. I explained the situation to another guy (Bobbie?) and was told that I should go to a LBS or online dealer and buy new o-rings. I asked if DVO could provide the o-rings since this is only a 2 month old shock and was told that they don't have any and I probably damaged the o-ring(s) when I added the spacers anyway. Ronnie seemed great but I'm not impressed with the "customer service" I received today.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

IRBent said:


> No, I have not gone there yet. As a matter of fact, I've only ridden my bike twice since early December. I'm getting old, fat, and lazy. I bought some Hope Tech E3 brakes hoping they might make me wanna ride again.


Damn the hope brakes are so nice. If I wasn't so attached to my formula ROs I would be on hopes for sure!

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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

IRBent said:


> Numerous posts ago, you'll find someone posted pics of the shims stacks, compression and rebound. There are only 2 rebound shims, both 0.1mm thick by 16mm OD. Ronnie at DVO suggested that I remove one of my rebound shims because mine will occasionally pack up on repetitive hits. Stair cases do it in. Vorsprung Suspension has numerous videos discussing rebound and one I'm sure says low speed rebound highly affects the high speed rebound. I think he suggests running the high speed so it rebounds really quick then using the low speed rebound to tame it.


Vorsprung suggests running hsr as slow as possible (this maintains composure on big hits and jump faces where the bike is deep in the travel) then tuning rebound with the lsr (adjuster).

Too little hsr will cause bucking which cannot be tamed by the lsr adjuster.

I just added some hsr to the rebound stack in my jade tonight because the bike was getting the rear end kicked up from large rocks at speed. No amount of lsr would fix that issue

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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

rollertoaster said:


> Vorsprung suggests running hsr as slow as possible (this maintains composure on big hits and jump faces where the bike is deep in the travel) then tuning rebound with the lsr (adjuster).
> 
> Too little hsr will cause bucking which cannot be tamed by the lsr adjuster.
> 
> ...


Tough call. Stevie knows his suspension so I won't refute that but to me rebound is determined by air spring pressure and how deep you are in the travel. Because on a topaz you don't have separate circuits I rather have the rebound come back to me as fast as possible (without being bucked of course) and then adjust the amount of rebound speed that comes out of returning from mid position back to sag.

All this is actually pretty fast to me. Parking lot test would have me feeling like my rebound is too fast but when I'm on the trail it feels just right.

I certainly had it tuned like you mentioned when I had the X2 with separate circuits but the topaz is not that way...

*edit*

We're talking about the same thing. Stevie saying as slow as possible and me saying as fast as possible is the same thing. You just choose to run more hsr than me. No biggie 

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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Junersun said:


> Tough call. Stevie knows his suspension so I won't refute that but to me rebound is determined by air spring pressure and how deep you are in the travel. Because on a topaz you don't have separate circuits I rather have the rebound come back to me as fast as possible (without being bucked of course) and then adjust the amount of rebound speed that comes out of returning from mid position back to sag.
> 
> All this is actually pretty fast to me. Parking lot test would have me feeling like my rebound is too fast but when I'm on the trail it feels just right.
> 
> ...


I actually do like fast lsr but recently I've found that running slower hsr provides more control over really rough stuff and I still get to fine tune my lsr for traction and feel.

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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Doug said:


> Negative spacers provide more mid stroke support. The entire spring curve will increase. Small bump compliance is reduced a bit. This is probably the best way to get what you want.
> 
> A positive spacer will reduce sag a bit and make it more progressive, but not help mid stroke.
> 
> Higher main can pressure will also improve mid stroke, but also reduce small bump compliance and end stroke (make it harder to use all travel).


Thanks. Most setups I see are usually one more band in the positive than the negative. Should I add one band to each so 4+/3- or just add a negative spacer for 3+/3-?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

rodzilla said:


> Thanks. Most setups I see are usually one more band in the positive than the negative. Should I add one band to each so 4+/3- or just add a negative spacer for 3+/3-?


I'm at 2+/3- feels pretty good. Actually might take one positive off. It all depends I think.

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

rodzilla said:


> Thanks. Most setups I see are usually one more band in the positive than the negative. Should I add one band to each so 4+/3- or just add a negative spacer for 3+/3-?


One step/change at a time is usually best. Otherwise it's hard to know what does what and you can introduce more problems or mask the positive changes with the other things you did.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

rollertoaster said:


> Vorsprung suggests running hsr as slow as possible (this maintains composure on big hits and jump faces where the bike is deep in the travel) then tuning rebound with the lsr (adjuster).
> 
> Too little hsr will cause bucking which cannot be tamed by the lsr adjuster.
> 
> ...


Thanks for correcting me. It's sad to think I have watched the video several times and still can't remember what he says. Alzheimer's sucks.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I put the second shim back in with the rebound, and left the redline like water in. it feels a lot better now and i am running 4-5 clicks of rebound where I was at 0.

It did take quite a bit of effort to get the negative air to charge this time. I had to let the air out twice and work up to my normal pressure in 20-30# increments. 

If the rain holds off I may have a ride report and a jade /vs topaz comparison.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> I put the second shim back in with the rebound, and left the redline like water in. it feels a lot better now and i am running 4-5 clicks of rebound where I was at 0.
> 
> It did take quite a bit of effort to get the negative air to charge this time. I had to let the air out twice and work up to my normal pressure in 20-30# increments.
> 
> If the rain holds off I may have a ride report and a jade /vs topaz comparison.


Let me get this straight in my mind. You had a single rebound shim on the main piston and the rebound knob was wide open? Then you went back in and put the second rebound shim back and now you're running rebound with 4-5 clicks from full open?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

IRBent said:


> Let me get this straight in my mind. You had a single rebound shim on the main piston and the rebound knob was wide open? Then you went back in and put the second rebound shim back and now you're running rebound with 4-5 clicks from full open?


Having a hard time comprehending this as well. Maybe he went pro overnight?

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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

IRBent said:


> Let me get this straight in my mind. You had a single rebound shim on the main piston and the rebound knob was wide open? Then you went back in and put the second rebound shim back and now you're running rebound with 4-5 clicks from full open?


No, as bought I had 0-1 clicks from open. Went to like water and took out one rebound shim. Bike was like a pogo stick even with 7-8 clicks. Put the shim back in (stock shim stack) and stayed with like water (not the factory 2.5). The bike feels a lot better now and the 4-5 clicks from open feels more like 0-1 before. Only change is like water and a good bleed.

But as i said this is still driveway riding since the changes.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

terrible said:


> No, as bought I had 0-1 clicks from open. Went to like water and took out one rebound shim. Bike was like a pogo stick even with 7-8 clicks. Put the shim back in (stock shim stack) and stayed with like water (not the factory 2.5). The bike feels a lot better now and the 4-5 clicks from open feels more like 0-1 before. Only change is like water and a good bleed.
> 
> But as i said this is still driveway riding since the changes.


I've always wanted to play with the like water stuff. Maybe I'll pick some up.

For those suspension gurus out there, oil viscosity vs shim stack, which is the better adjustment to make?

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> No, as bought I had 0-1 clicks from open. Went to like water and took out one rebound shim. Bike was like a pogo stick even with 7-8 clicks. Put the shim back in (stock shim stack) and stayed with like water (not the factory 2.5). The bike feels a lot better now and the 4-5 clicks from open feels more like 0-1 before. Only change is like water and a good bleed.
> 
> But as i said this is still driveway riding since the changes.


What bike are you riding how much do you weigh with gear on?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Junersun said:


> I've always wanted to play with the like water stuff. Maybe I'll pick some up.
> 
> For those suspension gurus out there, oil viscosity vs shim stack, which is the better adjustment to make?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


They are for different things. Oil viscosity will mainly affect flow through the orifices (LSC and LSR) while the mid-valve (MSC and HSR) and compression valve (HSC) are seeing a solid column of oil so viscosity shouldn't affect them much. Changing the rebound stack on the midvalve will affect HSR.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

2017 niner rip rdo and I'm about 185-190 geared up.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Newbie here. I've got a Topaz on order, should be here in a couple of days, just in time for another round of snow and rain. 

I have a Hightower, am about 185-187lbs in kit, and use the bike for general trail riding - no jumps and nothing more than a couple feet drops. 

What's a good starting tune? Thanks. 

Also, I have a Monarch fitted stock right now, and DVO in UK have no mount kits for my bike in stock. Can I use what is already on the Monarch? Is the 22x8 metal sleeve compatible with the DU in the Topaz? Will the Monarch spacers work with the Topaz DU? Or do I need to move the DU from the Monarch over in place of the Topaz DU? The Monarch is only a few months old with 400km so nothing worn out.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

zerolight said:


> Newbie here. I've got a Topaz on order, should be here in a couple of days, just in time for another round of snow and rain.
> 
> I have a Hightower, am about 185-187lbs in kit, and use the bike for general trail riding - no jumps and nothing more than a couple feet drops.
> 
> ...


Best to send an email to DVO(Ronnie)

But fyi, I'm about 195lbs geared up and below is what Ronnie have recommended.

225-235 psi main chamber
190-200 reservoir
2-3 spacers in the positive chamber
3-4 clicks of rebound from closed

I had to buy bushings from DVO directly but heard Fox works too.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Cheers. He told me something similar. 3 clicks from open though, which makes more sense?


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Hmmmm that is weird. Our weight isn't that far off I don't think.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

zerolight said:


> Newbie here. I've got a Topaz on order, should be here in a couple of days, just in time for another round of snow and rain.
> 
> I have a Hightower, am about 185-187lbs in kit, and use the bike for general trail riding - no jumps and nothing more than a couple feet drops.
> 
> ...


I answered you in the Hightower thread but I didn't fully understand your question. I reused the metal sleeve and spacers from the Monarch to mount my Topaz. I used the bushings that came stock on the Topaz. I weigh about 230ish when I ride; Ronnie gave the same range of recommendations. I just ruin my main can with higher pressure so I can avoid pedal strikes. You will be very happy with your upgrade when you get up and running!


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

rodzilla said:


> I answered you in the Hightower thread but I didn't fully understand your question. I reused the metal sleeve and spacers from the Monarch to mount my Topaz. I used the bushings that came stock on the Topaz. I weigh about 230ish when I ride; Ronnie gave the same range of recommendations. I just ruin my main can with higher pressure so I can avoid pedal strikes. You will be very happy with your upgrade when you get up and running!


I'd think if you used the spacers that came with the monarch they be too wide given the IGUS bushes have a lip of around 1 or 2mm? You'd need smaller spacers surely? I ended up just ordering mount kits from TFTuned so I get everything spaced correctly. They have the same IGUS bushes so I can keep the bushings in a drawer for next year, use the spacers and sleeve. I'll sell my Monarch with the stock mount kit installed. They are a super tight fit to the stock Rockshox DU, must be adding stiction.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

HaxEJxuK said:


> Hmmmm that is weird. Our weight isn't that far off I don't think.


Maybe he gave you a typo? The Topaz (based on this thread) has a slower than average rebound so running it closer to closed than open seems odd? Watching a tuning guide by Mojo (not for the Topaz) suggests aiming for rebound as fast as possible, without kicking you around. Fast enough to oscillate past sag point once.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Shock arrived today. Fitted it and set it up with two spacers in the +ve, 195 psi in both main chamber and bladder, feels really nice and plush. But the platform/compression lever does nothing at all. I'm gutted. Went through this issue with the Monarch and had to send it off for a service (from new) and now the DVO is the same. SO disappointed.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> Shock arrived today. Fitted it and set it up with two spacers in the +ve, 195 psi in both main chamber and bladder, feels really nice and plush. But the platform/compression lever does nothing at all. I'm gutted. Went through this issue with the Monarch and had to send it off for a service (from new) and now the DVO is the same. SO disappointed.


The Topaz indeed does not completely lock out but you can tell a difference from one position to the next. So if yours isn't firming up between positions, you should contact DVO.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

IRBent said:


> The Topaz indeed does not completely lock out but you can tell a difference from one position to the next. So if yours isn't firming up between positions, you should contact DVO.


Yeah - mine is exactly the same across all three positions. The compression lever is doing nothing. Waiting for input from DVO.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

zerolight said:


> Yeah - mine is exactly the same across all three positions. The compression lever is doing nothing. Waiting for input from DVO.


Good news is reshimming on the any dvo product is quite simple and there is a shim stack located right where the lever assemble resides that governs your lsc. I have also noticed that I want a little more support out of my levers but I'm going to wait to give the topaz more ride time.

Keep us posted on what dvo recommends

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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Junersun said:


> Good news is reshimming on the any dvo product is quite simple and there is a shim stack located right where the lever assemble resides that governs your lsc. I have also noticed that I want a little more support out of my levers but I'm going to wait to give the topaz more ride time.
> 
> Keep us posted on what dvo recommends
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I gotta say I'm not too keen on cracking it open so soon. It's brand new and should surely just work out the box? Not so keen on spending even more money on a service kit, suspension oil, and the tools and vice I'll need to service it. Planned on that a year from now.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> Yeah - mine is exactly the same across all three positions. The compression lever is doing nothing. Waiting for input from DVO.


I really hate that for you. I hope you give them a chance because I think you'll like the shock. I rarely if ever flip that lever on mine. I say the Topaz is way better than the stock Fox shock that came on my Bronson.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I really hate that for you. I hope you give them a chance because I think you'll like the shock. I rarely if ever flip that lever on mine. I say the Topaz is way better than the stock Fox shock that came on my Bronson.


Yeah - you can never tell what an issue with the compression circuit will do. On the Monarch I rode it happily for 3 months without touching the lever since it didn't work. However when I got it rebuilt under warranty such that the lever actually did something I also found that I could run it full open with 15psi less and it felt much more supple. So maybe this issue with my Topaz is something I could live with, just accept it has no compression lever, or maybe it's also impacting the open position.

Hoping to hear from DVO today when the US guys wake up - its mid afternoon here in the UK. Not sure I want to ride it tomorrow in case I need to return it to my dealer.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

HaxEJxuK said:


> Hmmmm that is weird. Our weight isn't that far off I don't think.


You must be running yours 3 clicks from open too (full ant-clockwise)? 3 clicks from closed is so slow on mine it just packs up and eats all its travel in seconds and becomes a hardtail.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

zerolight said:


> You must be running yours 3 clicks from open too (full ant-clockwise)? 3 clicks from closed is so slow on mine it just packs up and eats all its travel in seconds and becomes a hardtail.


No, since Ronnie gave me 3-4 from closed, I turned it all the way right(clockwise) then 4 clicks from that.

I haven't had chance to try out on trail since it's been snow then rain couple of days every week since I got it. Matter in fact, it's been like that and I've been traveling since last Oct? when I got my Hightower so I haven't had chance to ride it since last year.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

It's now making horrible bubbling squelching noises in addition to the compression lever not working. It's now not rideable. I think I need to return it.

Ronnie is getting in touch with UK distributer. Hopefully they can work out an exchange.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> It's now making horrible bubbling squelching noises in addition to the compression lever not working. It's now not rideable. I think I need to return it.
> 
> Ronnie is getting in touch with UK distributer. Hopefully they can work out an exchange.


I know it is disheartening to put so much money into something and it not work. Just know DVO is a good company, the Topaz is an even better shock, and that they'll make it right. Sadly today couldn't be soon enough.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

zerolight said:


> It's now making horrible bubbling squelching noises in addition to the compression lever not working. It's now not rideable. I think I need to return it.
> 
> Ronnie is getting in touch with UK distributer. Hopefully they can work out an exchange.


Bummer! They'll take care of you. I've migrated all my bikes to dvo for their product and their support.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

something is not quite right if you can't tell a difference between teh compression settings on the topaz paired with a hightower. It may be an issue with the shock, or your butt dyno may not be sensitive enough. There are guys in my riding crew that will swear to me that they can't tell the difference between the compression settings on their given rear shock. I'll jump on the bike and I can notice it immediately. Some people are more sensitive then others.

FWIW, I'm 185lbs geared, I ride a hightower (OG) with the topaz set to 57mm stroke. I run 2 positive bands, 1 negative. 185 bladder pressure and about 205 main can pressure. The difference between the compression settings is quite noticeable to me, but not to my most common riding partner. I definitely go back and forth between the open and medium settings on the shock. I only use the firm setting on extended climbs and for riding pump tracks or super tame flow trails.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

minimusprime said:


> something is not quite right if you can't tell a difference between teh compression settings on the topaz paired with a hightower. It may be an issue with the shock, or your butt dyno may not be sensitive enough. There are guys in my riding crew that will swear to me that they can't tell the difference between the compression settings on their given rear shock. I'll jump on the bike and I can notice it immediately. Some people are more sensitive then others.
> 
> FWIW, I'm 185lbs geared, I ride a hightower (OG) with the topaz set to 57mm stroke. I run 2 positive bands, 1 negative. 185 bladder pressure and about 205 main can pressure. The difference between the compression settings is quite noticeable to me, but not to my most common riding partner. I definitely go back and forth between the open and medium settings on the shock. I only use the firm setting on extended climbs and for riding pump tracks or super tame flow trails.


Can you tell me more about the trails you ride and the jumps/drops? How compliant over small chatter under 6" and how poppy and playful the rear feels? I'm running 1 more band on both positive and negative as you, but less pressure, and around the same rider weight on a Bronson.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

minimusprime said:


> something is not quite right if you can't tell a difference between teh compression settings on the topaz paired with a hightower. It may be an issue with the shock, or your butt dyno may not be sensitive enough. There are guys in my riding crew that will swear to me that they can't tell the difference between the compression settings on their given rear shock. I'll jump on the bike and I can notice it immediately. Some people are more sensitive then others.
> 
> FWIW, I'm 185lbs geared, I ride a hightower (OG) with the topaz set to 57mm stroke. I run 2 positive bands, 1 negative. 185 bladder pressure and about 205 main can pressure. The difference between the compression settings is quite noticeable to me, but not to my most common riding partner. I definitely go back and forth between the open and medium settings on the shock. I only use the firm setting on extended climbs and for riding pump tracks or super tame flow trails.


I'm certain the compression doesn't work. I had the same issue with my Monarch. SRAM rebuilt it and it was obvious. I can't believe that in a blind test the compression damping in the Topaz could be so similar between settings that I'd not be able to tell.

However it's now completely air and oil contaminated. It's just a bubbly mess. Hope to get a new one. Will find out tomorrow.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

215 main chamber 200 bladder, 3 pos 2 negative. Feeling great. Big hits bottom nice and softly. 

That rebound is a tough one. I am wide open right now. I want that kinda sleep when I'm really deep in the compression cycle but I'd like to slow down the lsr without sacrificing that. Suggestions? 


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

My new Topaz is working its way to the UK distributor for a rebuild. Hopefully I get it back on Saturday.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> My new Topaz is working its way to the UK distributor for a rebuild. Hopefully I get it back on Saturday.


In my opinion, that sucks. They should send you a new shock with a prepaid return label to send the defective unit back.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

IRBent said:


> In my opinion, that sucks. They should send you a new shock with a prepaid return label to send the defective unit back.


They don't have any in stock. This is still niche in the UK. Either that or wait a good while. They did pay to collect it from me, and will sort it tomorrow and ship it back same day if possible. I just had to pack it up.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> They don't have any in stock. This is still niche in the UK. Either that or wait a good while. They did pay to collect it from me, and will sort it tomorrow and ship it back same day if possible. I just had to pack it up.


Sounds like they're doing all they can to make it right then.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Junersun said:


> 215 main chamber 200 bladder, 3 pos 2 negative. Feeling great. Big hits bottom nice and softly.
> 
> That rebound is a tough one. I am wide open right now. I want that kinda sleep when I'm really deep in the compression cycle but I'd like to slow down the lsr without sacrificing that. Suggestions?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If you want to change HSR you have to change shims. Not to sound like a broken record but see what Ronnie suggests.


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

I'm having an issue with my Topaz, I can inflate the main air chamber with my shock pump no problem but when I try and inflate the bladder side the air just drains back out of the valve no matter how tight the pump is connected. When I remove the pump it holds but its impossible to guage where i'm at psi wise. Anyone else experienced this, is the valve pooped?


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Make sure your valve core is screwed all the way in the stem. Mine was backed out after a rebuild and the Chamber wouldn't hold air when I removed the pump.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Imho4ep said:


> I'm having an issue with my Topaz, I can inflate the main air chamber with my shock pump no problem but when I try and inflate the bladder side the air just drains back out of the valve no matter how tight the pump is connected. When I remove the pump it holds but its impossible to guage where i'm at psi wise. Anyone else experienced this, is the valve pooped?


A number of people get concerned that they are leaking air when disconnecting the pump when in fact it's just the compressed air that was in the hose. If you reconnect the pump and see a reading that's ~50psi lower than what you pumped it up to then you are good, the extra air is just filling the hose. There's a very small volume so the hose volume is significant.


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

terrible said:


> Make sure your valve core is screwed all the way in the stem. Mine was backed out after a rebuild and the Chamber wouldn't hold air when I removed the pump.


ok thanks, I picked up a valve core tool, hopefully its that simple!


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

crimedog said:


> A number of people get concerned that they are leaking air when disconnecting the pump when in fact it's just the compressed air that was in the hose. If you reconnect the pump and see a reading that's ~50psi lower than what you pumped it up to then you are good, the extra air is just filling the hose. There's a very small volume so the hose volume is significant.


thanks but like i said, its not just when i'm disconnecting it that it leaks, it leaks when the shock pump is screwed fully in until it discharges all the air. i'm hoping its just a loose valve core as per terribles suggestion.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> A number of people get concerned that they are leaking air when disconnecting the pump when in fact it's just the compressed air that was in the hose. If you reconnect the pump and see a reading that's ~50psi lower than what you pumped it up to then you are good, the extra air is just filling the hose. There's a very small volume so the hose volume is significant.


@ 50psi might be the norm for a small handheld shock pump, but my floor model Lezyne drops the bladder by maybe 100psi or more.


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

terrible said:


> Make sure your valve core is screwed all the way in the stem. Mine was backed out after a rebuild and the Chamber wouldn't hold air when I removed the pump.


yup that was it, thanks again terrible!


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

Got my shock back today. Apparently it was a couple of seals in the air chamber that were problematic. I still can't tell much difference in compression settings but am assured it's perfect. Noise is gone. Ready to ride when it stops raining.

Setup for now with 2 +ve spacers, 205psi main, 190psi bladder, 3 clicks from open.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> Got my shock back today. Apparently it was a couple of seals in the air chamber that were problematic. I still can't tell much difference in compression settings but am assured it's perfect. Noise is gone. Ready to ride when it stops raining.
> 
> Setup for now with 2 +ve spacers, 205psi main, 190psi bladder, 3 clicks from open.


Nice bike. But once you ride that Topaz your Pike will feel a bit harsh I bet. LOL. If you think so, come back and hit me up. Been there, fixed that rather cheaply. Now both ends are plush.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

IRBent. I'm planning on putting a Luftkappe in the Pikes after summer vacation in a few months. I think you did that too? I'd love to stick a green DVO Diamond on there but can't justify that expense.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> IRBent. I'm planning on putting a Luftkappe in the Pikes after summer vacation in a few months. I think you did that too? I'd love to stick a green DVO Diamond on there but can't justify that expense.


Indeed, the Luftkappe made my Pike a different fork. There may be an excellent alternative too. Seem Rockshox will be releasing a new air shaft for 2019 that uses an aluminum seal head rather that the plastic. Their claims are the seal head reduces friction/stiction and the new design increases the negative chamber by 36%. I'm not sure how much volume the Luftkappe adds. But I like it.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Zero,

For visual comparison. My SC vs yours.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

IRBent said:


> Nice bike. But once you ride that Topaz your Pike will feel a bit harsh I bet. LOL. If you think so, come back and hit me up. Been there, fixed that rather cheaply. Now both ends are plush.


I only have one ride on my Hightower but from couple of paved road ride with son and great 1st ride, that's how I feel.

I swapped out to Topaz even before my first ride on my Hightower as I saw many complained about how bad Monarch is. And also saw some said exactly what you said about Pike.

I was somewhat thinking about Diamond but would like to hear about that fix you said.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> I only have one ride on my Hightower but from couple of paved road ride with son and great 1st ride, that's how I feel.
> 
> I swapped out to Topaz even before my first ride on my Hightower as I saw many complained about how bad Monarch is. And also saw some said exactly what you said about Pike.
> 
> I was somewhat thinking about Diamond but would like to hear about that fix you said.


The Vorsprung Luftkappe was my answer for the Pike. It adds volume to the negative side which makes it so much more plush and supportive. In my opinion Rockshox caught on because they added more negative space to their 2018 offerings. Now they're announcing a new air shaft that adds more negative space and an aluminum seal head. See my post above maybe, 2-3 posts above.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

IRBent said:


> The Vorsprung Luftkappe was my answer for the Pike. It adds volume to the negative side which makes it so much more plush and supportive. In my opinion Rockshox caught on because they added more negative space to their 2018 offerings. Now they're announcing a new air shaft that adds more negative space and an aluminum seal head. See my post above maybe, 2-3 posts above.


Hahaha thank you. I was typing it and had to step away to get other things done. Came back and finished typing and you guys already talked about it and my post came after that


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

HaxEJxuK said:


> I only have one ride on my Hightower but from couple of paved road ride with son and great 1st ride, that's how I feel.
> 
> I swapped out to Topaz even before my first ride on my Hightower as I saw many complained about how bad Monarch is. And also saw some said exactly what you said about Pike.
> 
> I was somewhat thinking about Diamond but would like to hear about that fix you said.


The Monarch isn't so bad - I've got about 400km on mine since November despite the terrible winter we had here. It's a little stiff off the top is all. Be interesting to see how this Topaz compares when I get out on it.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

IRBent said:


> Zero,
> 
> For visual comparison. My SC vs yours.


I see you like some purple!  Nice Bronson.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> I see you like some purple!  Nice Bronson.


The bike came from the factory with the magenta and lime green color scheme. The stock colors reminded me of my early years racing MX in the late 89's and early 90's. My last MX race gear was purple and so it began. First came the Hope Pro 4 hubs, then the 1X drive train. Pedals to match with the stem shortly there after. The Hope Tech 3 E4 brakes were just put on a few weeks ago. I'm still stuck in the 80's wishing I was a teenager again. Sadly I'm just old and slow.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

zerolight said:


> The Monarch isn't so bad - I've got about 400km on mine since November despite the terrible winter we had here. It's a little stiff off the top is all. Be interesting to see how this Topaz compares when I get out on it.


Unfortunately I can't tell how it compares to Monarch RT3 since I took it out before my first trail ride.

I know this isn't the way to tell but even just sitting trying to set sag and bouncing off of it, I was able to tell Topaz is noticeably smoother.

It would have been better if I had some time on Monarch but it's already been 6 months since I got the bike and couldn't ride it. Only thing I can do while not able to ride was to upgrade.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

IRBent said:


> The bike came from the factory with the magenta and lime green color scheme. The stock colors reminded me of my early years racing MX in the late 89's and early 90's. My last MX race gear was purple and so it began. First came the Hope Pro 4 hubs, then the 1X drive train. Pedals to match with the stem shortly there after. The Hope Tech 3 E4 brakes were just put on a few weeks ago. I'm still stuck in the 80's wishing I was a teenager again. Sadly I'm just old and slow.


My favourite Bronson colour was the raspberry pink. If they'd been doing those when I was ordering my Hightower I'd have been mighty tempted.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

Got my first ride with my new topaz and diamond on my Knolly Endorphin.

I never had any big issues with the stock CC DBAIR iL that came on my Endo. I mainly hated that I had to sent it back to North Carolina once a year at $180 a pop. The DVO topaz came along at a price I couldn't pass up so it went on the Endo. The small bump compliance was good. The higher speed stuff felt really good as well. Again honestly I don't have a ton to say yet. The lockout on the topaz isn't as strong as the CC which might bother me on fire roads.

Due to me being an idiot and not cleaning my discs properly I couldn't really let the Endo fly like I normally do, so I'll have to wait till Sunday to really give the DVO stuff a run through.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

First outing. Seemed to lose a wee bit pressure overnight so I put a bit more in half way around. Feels nice and controlled. I'm not feeling 100% today so haven't been pushing too hard - I'm too tired. What I noticed right away is that it feels very plush over small rough on fast trails. I had to check I wasn't running too much sag or had a flat. It just absorbed that stuff in a way that the Monarch didn't. On the bigger stuff, too soon to be sure.

Edit: second half of the run I pushed pretty hard. According to Strava I hit 10 achievements, 6 PRs, of which 3 were rocky descents that were slippy, wet, and muddy from several days of heavy rain. So that's definitely a +ve on the Topaz.


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

ok question for you Topaz experts, I have one on a Knolly Deliruim - progressive leverage ratio:
Knolly Delirium 27.5'' 2016 - Linkage Design

the bike is sitting into its sag way too easy and blowing thru the first third of travel but then it doesn't use the last 20% or so. i want to firm up the pedal platform and use all the travel, obviously.

i am 190lbs ready to ride, i have 200psi in the main chamber and 170 in the bladder. there is one volume spacer in the pos and one in the neg.

any set up suggestions would be appreciated!

thanks


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Imho4ep said:


> ok question for you Topaz experts, I have one on a Knolly Deliruim - progressive leverage ratio:
> Knolly Delirium 27.5'' 2016 - Linkage Design
> 
> the bike is sitting into its sag way too easy and blowing thru the first third of travel but then it doesn't use the last 20% or so. i want to firm up the pedal platform and use all the travel, obviously.
> ...


I would move the positive band to the negative side and flip the compression lever to middle/closed and see how that feels.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Imho4ep said:


> ok question for you Topaz experts, I have one on a Knolly Deliruim - progressive leverage ratio:
> Knolly Delirium 27.5'' 2016 - Linkage Design
> 
> the bike is sitting into its sag way too easy and blowing thru the first third of travel but then it doesn't use the last 20% or so. i want to firm up the pedal platform and use all the travel, obviously.
> ...


From my limited work on my setup I would def say start adding that spacer into the negative air chamber. Delirium is def a progressive leverage rate. With your weight being not too heavy I can't imagine you needing more than one spacer in the positive.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

ok thanks guys, that makes sense, i'm going to try it with two in the neg chamber and 0 in the positive, its its blowing thru the end of travel i'll add one to the positive.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Imho4ep said:


> ok thanks guys, that makes sense, i'm going to try it with two in the neg chamber and 0 in the positive, its its blowing thru the end of travel i'll add one to the positive.


I would also try to keep your air pressure the same. Being consistent there will allow you to feel what a spacer in the negative chamber does. Afterwards how you adjust it to achieve sag and the feel you're looking for is up to you.

I ended up not changing air pressure at all, just reaped the benefits of a smaller negative air chamber for my riding style.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

Junersun said:


> I would also try to keep your air pressure the same. Being consistent there will allow you to feel what a spacer in the negative chamber does. Afterwards how you adjust it to achieve sag and the feel you're looking for is up to you.
> 
> I ended up not changing air pressure at all, just reaped the benefits of a smaller negative air chamber for my riding style.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


yeah i upped the main chamber to 210 to get my sag back to 25% after removing the volume spacer. i left the bladder alone.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Imho4ep said:


> yeah i upped the main chamber to 210 to get my sag back to 25% after removing the volume spacer. i left the bladder alone.


At 190 lb., I'd try a bit more air in the bladder. That may put the spring curve in a better place for you.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

170 in the bladder does seem low. I'd have moved that up to 190 before putting a spacer in the negative. But I like some small bump sensitivity.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Just to clarify here, the bladder pressure moves the _damping _curve up. For that unique circumstance where he effectively has to run too "high" of a spring rate because of the bike's linkage design less damping is probably a better idea.


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

crimedog said:


> Just to clarify here, the bladder pressure moves the _damping _curve up. For that unique circumstance where he effectively has to run too "high" of a spring rate because of the bike's linkage design less damping is probably a better idea.


yup thanks crimedog, switching to the two spacers in the neg chamber and 0 in the positive definitely helped, the pedal platform is way better and there is a lot more support in the beginning of the stroke. i'm still not using all the travel, i guess i will have to take some air out of the main chamber and have a bit more sag which is too bad as i love how it feels like this. to be fair i think knolly calls for 33% sag usually over the 25% i generally prefer.

thanks again for the help.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Imho4ep said:


> yup thanks crimedog, switching to the two spacers in the neg chamber and 0 in the positive definitely helped, the pedal platform is way better and there is a lot more support in the beginning of the stroke. i'm still not using all the travel, i guess i will have to take some air out of the main chamber and have a bit more sag which is too bad as i love how it feels like this. to be fair i think knolly calls for 33% sag usually over the 25% i generally prefer.
> 
> thanks again for the help.


The only downside to 33% sag vs 25% sag is the occasional pedal strike. I found I learned to adjust and I no longer have as many pedal strikes as I once did after moving to 30% sag instead of 25%. The way it feels and handles trumps numbers.


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## Apolonios (Mar 3, 2016)

crimedog said:


> Just to clarify here, the bladder pressure moves the _damping _curve up. For that unique circumstance where he effectively has to run too "high" of a spring rate because of the bike's linkage design less damping is probably a better idea.


I've always been confused as to what exactly does changing the bladder pressure achieves.

So it only affects the damping and not spring rate?

Does it affect both rebound and compression damping?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Apolonios said:


> I've always been confused as to what exactly does changing the bladder pressure achieves.
> 
> So it only affects the damping and not spring rate?
> 
> Does it affect both rebound and compression damping?


Right, they are completely different systems. The bladder is putting pressure on the oil to avoid cavitation. When there is more pressure there is more resistance to oil flow on compression and it will aid in rebound as well, however I would expect that force to be very minor on the stanchion compared to the air spring.


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## wolflyle (Apr 18, 2018)

I have a question for those in the know. How does the plastic spacer installed in the 200x51 mm topaz affect the size of the positive air chamber ? I have mine installed on a high tower and cannont use the last 20mm of travel. It just feels to progressive . I’m wondering what would happen if I removed the spacer effectively making the shock a 57mm. Would it also be more plush ? Maybe make better use of the travel ?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wolflyle said:


> I have a question for those in the know. How does the plastic spacer installed in the 200x51 mm topaz affect the size of the positive air chamber ? I have mine installed on a high tower and cannont use the last 20mm of travel. It just feels to progressive . I'm wondering what would happen if I removed the spacer effectively making the shock a 57mm. Would it also be more plush ? Maybe make better use of the travel ?


Let all the air out and see how the travel works out. If the rear tire doesn't hit the frame, remove the spacer.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

wolflyle said:


> I have a question for those in the know. How does the plastic spacer installed in the 200x51 mm topaz affect the size of the positive air chamber ? I have mine installed on a high tower and cannont use the last 20mm of travel. It just feels to progressive . I'm wondering what would happen if I removed the spacer effectively making the shock a 57mm. Would it also be more plush ? Maybe make better use of the travel ?


Many tire and rim combinations will result in hitting the frame on "long shocked" Hightower's. If you don't bottom out now you should be ok.

However not using the last 20% is odd. You may be running too high pressure. What settings and pressure? They did a lot of testing for the Topaz on a Hightower. With a call to get it dialed in.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

wolflyle said:


> I have a question for those in the know. How does the plastic spacer installed in the 200x51 mm topaz affect the size of the positive air chamber ? I have mine installed on a high tower and cannont use the last 20mm of travel. It just feels to progressive . I'm wondering what would happen if I removed the spacer effectively making the shock a 57mm. Would it also be more plush ? Maybe make better use of the travel ?


I'm little confused, what are you referring spacers? Are you talking about white plastic spacers that you can put in either positive or negative chamber like bottomless token?

If spacer that you are talking about is that,

1. Removing that won't make your Topaz 57mm.

2. You can remove it if it is too progressive and could result in using full travel.

3. How many spacers do you have in Positive and Negative currently?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> I'm little confused, what are you referring spacers? Are you talking about white plastic spacers that you can put in either positive or negative chamber like bottomless token?
> 
> If spacer that you are talking about is that,
> 
> ...


On the 51mm unit they've installed a 6mm thick washer that fits on the shaft. It limits the travel on the stock 57mm stroke shock to only 51mm.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

IRBent said:


> On the 51mm unit they've installed a 6mm thick washer that fits on the shaft. It limits the travel on the stock 57mm stroke shock to only 51mm.


Yes, I'm aware of that although I haven't seen it.  But way he/she described spacers sound like he/she wants to make his/her bike less progressive(less positive spacers) but at same time, wondering if removing positive or negative spacers would make it 57mm instead of of moving washer that you were talking about.

Also, with given info so far, I have to assuming it's regular Hightower that he/she has and I thought 57mm on none modified Hightower was big no-no?


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## wolflyle (Apr 18, 2018)

So to clarify: 
I have an OG Hightower (large frame) 

Running one volume spacer in the negative chamber , nothing in the positive. Air pressure of 220psi to achieve 30% sag. I’m unable to bottom out the shock and always seem to be left with about 20mm unused. Feel like the shock is very progressive. Running 185psi in the bladder . 

I weigh in at about 89kg kitted. I was wondering if that 6mm washer on the inner shaft that limits the travel to 51mm affects the progressiveness of the shock . Surely it has the same effect as volume spacers in the positive chamber ? Considering removing it to see if that helps . Just thought I’d ask here first before dismantling it again. Maybe I should run more spacers in the negative chamber but don’t want to ruin the small bump compliance . Other wise I’m at a loss . My previous monarch rt3 debonair has the same issue. Felt really harsh and couldn’t use all the travel . Any thoughts?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

wolflyle, I am surprised that you have to run that much pressure with a negative band in. I weight about 8kg less than you and was only running 190psi on my hightower with no bands (negative bands allow you to run less pressure to hit the same sag). I think you are on the right track with no positive bands and utilizing negative bands but I would double check the mechanics of your bike and shock and make sure that everything is working as it should (pivots good? air canister set up properly? air added in 50psi increments and shock cycled to allow negative pressure to equalize?) and also double check your sag measuring methodology just in case. Running your shock with the travel spacer in should not be causing you problems.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

You weigh pretty much same as I do with all my riding gear and have same bike except I have medium. I set up my sag to 30%

I'm still tweaking but DVO suggested to use:

225-235 psi main chamber
190-200 reservoir
2-3 spacers in the positive chamber
3-4 clicks of rebound from closed

I initially set up:

230 psi main chamber
190 reservoir
2 spacers in the positive chamber
3 clicks of rebound from closed

With above set up, I was bottoming out every time I ran one of trail I ride so I did:

230 psi main chamber
190 reservoir
3 spacers in the positive chamber
1 spacers in the negative chamber
4 clicks of rebound from closed

I'm very close to bottoming out with above set up but have not actually bottomed out.

Since you are basically same weight as me, I'm assuming you are going to get pretty much same set up as mine if you contact DVO.

Maybe try my initial set up and see how it feels? But with way you have set up now, I'm kind of puzzled why you can't bottom out. Your set up should be much easier to bottom out than way mine is set up.

Other thing to consider is, I go through rock garden and drop of 1'-3'(I think, never measured) and using pretty much all of my travel. Depending on how your trail is, it just might not use all of it's travel?

Also, good thing to do is to contact DVO about it too. They are good about questions that you have or issues that you have.


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## andi73 (Oct 19, 2015)

Hey 

I have a 2017 Speci Enduro with the Topaz.
It works great but it's a Little bit harsh...
My Setup with 195ibs:

220 Psi Main Chamber
190 Psi Bladder
3+ Spacer
1- Spacer
3 clicks from closed


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

andi73 said:


> Hey
> 
> I have a 2017 Speci Enduro with the Topaz.
> It works great but it's a Little bit harsh...
> ...


What's your sag percentage and do you use all of your travel?


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## andi73 (Oct 19, 2015)

My Sag is 30% and when i ride in a heavy Rockgarden i use all travel...


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

andi have you tried setting your rebound faster? I wonder if your shock is packing up which would make it feel harsh.


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## andi73 (Oct 19, 2015)

Do you think my rebound is to slow?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

andi73 said:


> Do you think my rebound is to slow?


Possibly. Based on what others, including myself, are running it seems like you are running it slower than most. But we're not you and don't have your bike. In general you want to run it faster vs slower.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

andi73 said:


> Hey
> 
> I have a 2017 Speci Enduro with the Topaz.
> It works great but it's a Little bit harsh...
> ...


Same bike model and year; weigh about 230. I went with 2+, 3-, bladder 200, main chamber 230, rebound 3-4 clicks from closed. I changed from 3+, 2- but I was getting the mid stroke support I needed. Maybe try adding a negative spacer and set the main chamber PSI closer to your riding weight?


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## andi73 (Oct 19, 2015)

rodzilla said:


> Same bike model and year; weigh about 230. I went with 2+, 3-, bladder 200, main chamber 230, rebound 3-4 clicks from closed. I changed from 3+, 2- but I was getting the mid stroke support I needed. Maybe try adding a negative spacer and set the main chamber PSI closer to your riding weight?


Now it works great but the bottom out is not good..

Mainchamber:200Psi
Bladder:190Psi
3+ Spacer
2-Spacer
Rebound 4 fom closed


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

I am fairly similar to Hax on my Hightower, except the rebound. As per Ronnie I am 3 to 4 clicks from open (not closed), so that's a fair difference. Feels about right, I'd not go much slower or it might want to pack down. 

Main: 220
Bladder: 190
2+
4 clicks from open

Most of the time I am around 80% travel by the end of a ride, but I'd rather have a wee bit in the travel for a bigger hit if needed. It blows through much more with a bit less PSI but feels a bit too soft and wallows, I prefer the extra support and its still plush.

My 150 travel Pikes are back to 2 tokens after a bigger ride this weekend that saw them blow through too much travel too easily. Steering was a bit vague too. Unlike Hax mine insist on around 50 to 55 PSI to sit around 20 to 25% sag with two tokens. Around 60 PSI with one.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

andi73 said:


> Now it works great but the bottom out is not good..
> 
> Mainchamber:200Psi
> Bladder:190Psi
> ...


Maybe try speeding up the rebound. Maybe the shock is packing down from repeated hits so there's less available travel when something big comes along so bottoming out too much.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

zerolight said:


> My 150 travel Pikes are back to 2 tokens after a bigger ride this weekend that saw them blow through too much travel too easily. Steering was a bit vague too. Unlike Hax mine insist on around 50 to 55 PSI to sit around 20 to 25% sag with two tokens. Around 60 PSI with one.


Here's a cheap fix for your Pike woes. Install a Vorsprung Luftkappe. It adds negative volume which allows you to run higher pressures without giving up small bump compliance.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

zerolight said:


> I am fairly similar to Hax on my Hightower, except the rebound. As per Ronnie I am 3 to 4 clicks from open (not closed), so that's a fair difference. Feels about right, I'd not go much slower or it might want to pack down.
> 
> Main: 220
> Bladder: 190
> ...


Sounds like it's time for a Diamond! I just put a diamond on my Knolly and sold my Pike. The diamond is so much better! Really plus with the OTT and solid throughout the stroke.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Just as FYI, I think almost done setting up mine as best as I can. If I make change, it's going to be small one unless I get professional setup(Not likely) or get Shockwiz and it tells me to change dramatically.

Current Set up is:

Pike:

Bottomless Token	2
Main 75 psi
LSC 10 from Closed
Rebound 8 from Closed


Topaz:

+ Spacers 3
- Spacers 1
Main 225 psi
Reservoir 190 psi
Rebound 4 from Closed

Last two rides, I have about 1cm travel left for Pike and Topaz was still bottoming out couple of times. Not every time but depending on how hard or unskillful I charge. I think it's jump or drop(not good at it) that's causing bottom out. I might have to send an email to Ronnie.

Just as reference, I'm about 197lbs geared up and I set my sag 30% for both. Hope this helps someone.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

buddiesconfusion said:


> Sounds like it's time for a Diamond! I just put a diamond on my Knolly and sold my Pike. The diamond is so much better! Really plus with the OTT and solid throughout the stroke.


I'd love a Diamond - a green one in particular. 

Still paying off the Topaz so that will have to wait. Putting a second token back into my Pike (I've flip flopped between one and two since getting the bike) will hopefully help. I might also try the Luftkappe in the summer unless I'm suddenly flush and can splurge on the Diamond.

This isn't mine, but it's a nice look eh? I could live with that, in 150mm...


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## andi73 (Oct 19, 2015)

Now the small slow bumps are Good but the fast Hard highspeed bumps are harsh and the bike is not stable....


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

andi73 said:


> Now the small slow bumps are Good but the fast Hard highspeed bumps are harsh and the bike is not stable....


Turn your rebound dampening up...?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## andi73 (Oct 19, 2015)

You mean more rebound damping?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

andi73 said:


> You mean more rebound damping?


Yeah maybe it's not tracking because it's pogo sticking through the rough?

I have my own issues with the HSR but I imagine you'll feel more composed having it slow down a smudge?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I decided to tweak my Topaz tune yesterday. I ride a 2015 Bronson with the Topaz setup with 3 positive and 2 negative tuning bands inside. That was a radical tune I tried after my very first tune which had a single tuning band on the positive side. I really like the 3+ / 2- setup and ran low pressures so the shock was super supple on the top and never bottomed out harshly. But repetitive HSC hits occasionally caused the rear to hang up. I toyed with the idea of a rebound shim adjustment to see if I could speed up the HSR as I was pretty sure the rear was packing up on HSC events, especially going down stairs. So rather than bust into the shim stack I decided to see if a bit extra can pressure would help the HSR issue. So I pulled 1 tuning band from both positive and negative sides and set my main can pressure to achieve 30% sag. I calibrated the Shockwiz and took out. Throughout the ride the slow speed rebound felt a bit pogoish, often kicking my ass up a tad over slow speed roots and rocks. But in the end the Shockwiz liked the setup, giving me a score of 96 with everything in the green except HSC which was yellow and asking me to soften it. This is a single run though and I rarely start tweaking based on such. Although I did add one maybe mush/click to the rebound to see if that would make me feel better about the setup next time around.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Junersun said:


> Yeah maybe it's not tracking because it's pogo sticking through the rough?
> 
> I have my own issues with the HSR but I imagine you'll feel more composed having it slow down a smudge?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Generally speaking, you want faster rebound damping for successive high speed hits so that the suspension doesn't pack up. If it can't reset fast enough for the next bump it will keep moving down into its stroke and feel harsh.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Curveball said:


> Generally speaking, you want faster rebound damping for successive high speed hits so that the suspension doesn't pack up. If it can't reset fast enough for the next bump it will keep moving down into its stroke and feel harsh.


I agree to this as well. I certainly don't think super slow is the way to go but too fast and it'll buck you feeling unstable.

Again I have my own issues about hsr but I haven't gotten around to playing with the shim stack for my purposes. I personally like hsr to be fast but a little bit slower for the lsr and I rather be able to tune lsr using the knob

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

IRBent said:


> I decided to tweak my Topaz tune yesterday. I ride a 2015 Bronson with the Topaz setup with 3 positive and 2 negative tuning bands inside. That was a radical tune I tried after my very first tune which had a single tuning band on the positive side. I really like the 3+ / 2- setup and ran low pressures so the shock was super supple on the top and never bottomed out harshly. But repetitive HSC hits occasionally caused the rear to hang up. I toyed with the idea of a rebound shim adjustment to see if I could speed up the HSR as I was pretty sure the rear was packing up on HSC events, especially going down stairs. So rather than bust into the shim stack I decided to see if a bit extra can pressure would help the HSR issue. So I pulled 1 tuning band from both positive and negative sides and set my main can pressure to achieve 30% sag. I calibrated the Shockwiz and took out. Throughout the ride the slow speed rebound felt a bit pogoish, often kicking my ass up a tad over slow speed roots and rocks. But in the end the Shockwiz liked the setup, giving me a score of 96 with everything in the green except HSC which was yellow and asking me to soften it. This is a single run though and I rarely start tweaking based on such. Although I did add one maybe mush/click to the rebound to see if that would make me feel better about the setup next time around.


Sounds like you're on the right track. I tend to think of the Topaz being very limited in adjustments but don't often consider what the full effects of tuning bands are. It makes sense that less positive volume would mean higher pressure so your shock would rebound faster at high speeds (non-adjustable) and then you would need to add a click of rebound to slow down the low speed. Good stuff. Getting that to sync up with the HSC will be tricky though although that doesn't sounds like a complaint of yours.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Sounds like you're on the right track. I tend to think of the Topaz being very limited in adjustments but don't often consider what the full effects of tuning bands are. It makes sense that less positive volume would mean higher pressure so your shock would rebound faster at high speeds (non-adjustable) and then you would need to add a click of rebound to slow down the low speed. Good stuff. Getting that to sync up with the HSC will be tricky though although that doesn't sounds like a complaint of yours.


I think almost everybody on the Shockwiz forum talks about getting HSC results that ask them to soften it a tad. In my original hunt for a very active rear suspension I changed the oil twice, each time lowering the viscosity. In my mind a thinner oil would move through the orifices and reduce compression, thus making it softer. One thing I didn't say in my post above. My ride was very tame with only a few high speed chattery sections and four small jumps. I still had maybe 10-15mm of travel left on my shock stanchion. I never make major adjustments based on a single ride. Once I really get after it a few times, I'll make adjustments only if the majority of those rides suggest that I do so. I expect if it hit a few bigger jumps and rattle some really rough high speed rooted and rocky sections the Shockwiz will come off this first response of needing to soften my HSC. I went home yesterday and woke up my Shockwiz, checked the pressure in the system to make sure it was holding. I also did another compression ratio check to confirm it was right the first time. Although I really knew the CR was spot in because my latest tweak with tuning bands was slap in the middle of my first two setups, and my CR fell directly between them. 2.8 CR with one band, 3.0 with three bands, and this latest with 2 bands came in at 2.9.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

The Topaz on my Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg is noted at 230x60 or 230x65. For my bike, it uses a 57.5 mm stroke for a 135 mm travel trail bike configuration, but can be a 165 mm enduro bike with a 65 mm stroke shock. What would be involved in changing my Topaz from 60 to 65 mm stroke if I want to go the enduro route?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Curveball said:


> The Topaz on my Guerilla Gravity Shred Dogg is noted at 230x60 or 230x65. For my bike, it uses a 57.5 mm stroke for a 135 mm travel trail bike configuration, but can be a 165 mm enduro bike with a 65 mm stroke shock. What would be involved in changing my Topaz from 60 to 65 mm stroke if I want to go the enduro route?


Remove the air can and take the spacer off the shaft


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

crimedog said:


> Remove the air can and take the spacer off the shaft


Thanks. I should've guessed that it would be so easy.


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

About time to service my Topaz, first time doing it, but looks pretty easy from the instructions. Do y'all replace all the seals/O-rings/bushings every time you do a service, just clean them and put back on?

Since service kits are $54 ($16 for damper and $38 for air can service kits), it'd be nice to squeeze 2 years out of the wearable items.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Sid Duffman said:


> About time to service my Topaz, first time doing it, but looks pretty easy from the instructions. Do y'all replace all the seals/O-rings/bushings every time you do a service, just clean them and put back on?
> 
> Since service kits are $54 ($16 for damper and $38 for air can service kits), it'd be nice to squeeze 2 years out of the wearable items.


Here's my point of view. As long as the shock is still holding pressure and working fine, there's no need in replacing seals that aren't leaking. But too, each time I've opened mine up for oil changes, I didn't remove any seals and made darn certain that I lubed everything up real good with Slickoleum/Slick Honey. My shock is coming up on it's first birthday and I've tossed both of those rebuild kits into my wish list.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Sid Duffman said:


> About time to service my Topaz, first time doing it, but looks pretty easy from the instructions. Do y'all replace all the seals/O-rings/bushings every time you do a service, just clean them and put back on?
> 
> Since service kits are $54 ($16 for damper and $38 for air can service kits), it'd be nice to squeeze 2 years out of the wearable items.


My topaz has got just over 300 hours of riding on it. I've ended up settling on a 50 and a 100 hour service routine that seems to work well. At 50 check seals and relube. At 100 replace air seals and bleed damper. At 200 send in for full seal replacement including damper seals. [EDIT - the other thing I check every 50 hours or so is depressurise the bladder and then undo the bleed screw. Sometimes there's air in there literally bubbling out and it needs to be bled.] Many of my hours have a large gravity component due to shuttling, and lots of rock gardens, so the shock is working hard most of the time. Depending on your trails those service intervals could be very different for you. 
I have had a failed main air piston seal once with this shock after an enduro race. It was easy to tell though - it was making a wheezing sound. If you're doing a lot of racing then maybe change more frequently?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> My topaz has got just over 300 hours of riding on it. I've ended up settling on a 50 and a 100 hour service routine that seems to work well. At 50 check seals and relube. At 100 replace air seals and bleed damper. At 200 send in for full seal replacement including damper seals. Many of my hours have a large gravity component due to shuttling, and lots of rock gardens, so the shock is working hard most of the time. Depending on your trails those service intervals could be very different for you.
> I have had a failed main air piston seal once with this shock after an enduro race. It was easy to tell though - it was making a wheezing sound. If you're doing a lot of racing then maybe change more frequently?


My recommendations were based on easy trail riding. My Topaz just doesn't get taxed like yours does. Heck, I've yet to even bottom mine out, or if I did when the o-ring was at the end of the shaft, the bottom was not harsh or even felt.
Seeing how you do park rides with your Topaz, can you tell us more about your experiences, comparing the Topaz to other shocks that you've ridden the same trails with, and your overall opinion of the Topaz?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

IRBent said:


> My recommendations were based on easy trail riding. My Topaz just doesn't get taxed like yours does. Heck, I've yet to even bottom mine out, or if I did when the o-ring was at the end of the shaft, the bottom was not harsh or even felt.
> Seeing how you do park rides with your Topaz, can you tell us more about your experiences, comparing the Topaz to other shocks that you've ridden the same trails with, and your overall opinion of the Topaz?


I'm fortunate to ride with a number of guys who weigh about the same as me and have bikes with similar intent (enduro style with 150 to 160mm rear travel) and we've swapped them around and given each others bikes a solid workout on trails I know very well. Assuming they have spent a fair time fettling their shocks to work well with their frames, this would be my ranking of what I've tried:

Better than topaz: DHX2 - fantastic feel on the descents. Only downside is weight. The coil with climb switch works magnificently. I wish I could try a X2 to see if it's just about the coil or whether the damping setup is better.
Slightly better:
Avy'd monarch plus - whatever magic they do inside the shock makes it supportive but very supple. A blast to ride really fast.
Slightly worse than topaz:
Standard monarch plus - only shows a difference when pushed hard. Just doesn't seem to react as quickly to repeated hits. IFP vs bladder maybe?

I really like the topaz. I've got my bike setup more supportive than plush. Other guys riding my bike find it "racy", "precise" and better the harder it is ridden. The topaz is easy and cheap to service. The only mods I've done is change the damper fluid to redline 2.5wt (thank you for your advice!).

Hope this helps...


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## canadianjerkey (Feb 27, 2014)

Hey all, I seem to be having an issue with my Topaz burping air on bigger hits. Regularly I'll go down a trail and have it drop from 200 psi to 150psi in the main chamber. 

Right now I'm looking at an air chamber rebuild kit, but 38$ when I all I want are three of the skinniest orings tastes less than ideal. Has anybody had any luck using different compatible orings? If so, what sizes? 

That said, the shock is 10 months old. Anybody have opinions on me just buying the air kit outright since it might be time?


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## stereo007 (Jan 14, 2017)

If you are riding a quite much and have not had a service for 10 months, you should just get a service kit and do it all. It is not only about 3 orings.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

canadianjerkey said:


> Hey all, I seem to be having an issue with my Topaz burping air on bigger hits. Regularly I'll go down a trail and have it drop from 200 psi to 150psi in the main chamber.
> 
> Right now I'm looking at an air chamber rebuild kit, but 38$ when I all I want are three of the skinniest orings tastes less than ideal. Has anybody had any luck using different compatible orings? If so, what sizes?
> 
> That said, the shock is 10 months old. Anybody have opinions on me just buying the air kit outright since it might be time?


yep, if you ride regularly, it's time anyway. By the time you've got your shock off the bike, cleaned it, got the sleeve off, it's only a few extra steps to take the aircan off and replace the main air seals. What's more, a freshly serviced shock rides better.


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## canadianjerkey (Feb 27, 2014)

Sounds like a plan, the kit has been ordered. 

I'd still like to find some sort of replacement for the sleeve orings though, since they seem pretty fragile/exposed if I'm playing with spacers a lot.


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## hulster (May 28, 2017)

Hi, I would need a hint for I guess a bit more unusual prob. As a quite heavy rider (105 kg geared up) I am only using 80% of travel.
Overall I am very satisfied. But lets start from the beginning. My Bike has linkage to fit both air and coil, but a bit more on the coil side. It starts degressive into the SAG and a good amount of progression throughout the further travel. So with no spacers in it it starts quite well. Good small bump sensitivity, still supportive/poppy enough throughout the further travel as I like it it active/playfull. Just I am using 80% of travel even forcing it with some bigger hits (for me) into flat. I guess a bit of the prob is the not very big positiv chamber. I can't reduce the airpressure more as I am already at 30% SAG and more would affect my geometry too much and further it would make it to plush. I have reduced the bladder pressure to 180PSI and would not like to reduce it anymore for the same reason. Main pressure is 220 PSI.
Target would be 90%, but no idea how to get to it. I have tried 1 spacer in the negativ chamber, but that has only the affect to increase small bump sensitivity.(as expected)
Any idea?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

hulster said:


> Hi, I would need a hint for I guess a bit more unusual prob. As a quite heavy rider (105 kg geared up) I am only using 80% of travel.
> Overall I am very satisfied. But lets start from the beginning. My Bike has linkage to fit both air and coil, but a bit more on the coil side. It starts degressive into the SAG and a good amount of progression throughout the further travel. So with no spacers in it it starts quite well. Good small bump sensitivity, still supportive/poppy enough throughout the further travel as I like it it active/playfull. Just I am using 80% of travel even forcing it with some bigger hits (for me) into flat. I guess a bit of the prob is the not very big positiv chamber. I can't reduce the airpressure more as I am already at 30% SAG and more would affect my geometry too much and further it would make it to plush. I have reduced the bladder pressure to 180PSI and would not like to reduce it anymore for the same reason. Main pressure is 220 PSI.
> Target would be 90%, but no idea how to get to it. I have tried 1 spacer in the negativ chamber, but that has only the affect to increase small bump sensitivity.(as expected)
> Any idea?


Shimstack modification

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## hulster (May 28, 2017)

Junersun said:


> Shimstack modification
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sure? - No complains about HSC and LSC currently. Is the issue not more on side of the compression of the small main chamber in addition to my linkage progression.
Reducing HSC damping may help to use the travel, but will not be under-damped after.?And not rush through the first 2/3 of the travel to easy/quickly after?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

hulster said:


> Sure? - No complains about HSC and LSC currently. Is the issue not more on side of the compression of the small main chamber in addition to my linkage progression.
> Reducing HSC damping may help to use the travel, but will not be under-damped after.?And not rush through the first 2/3 of the travel to easy/quickly after?


You don't want to change the air pressure because you like the the sag. Perfect that's what the air spring is for imo. You cant use the last 20% of travel which to me is dampening.

I would lighten up your shimstack so it is possible to get 100% of the travel and personally start altering the negative air space to give you a firmer platform.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Lets say I´m willing to sacrifice some dampening in favour of a better pedaling platform...... which is the best way to go about this?

- Adding pressure to the positive/negative and as a result use less sag?
- Adding pressure to the bladder and set 30% sag.
- Adding an air volume band to the negative side to make it more linear, set 30%sag.
- Or some other way, or a combination of the above?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I've experimented heavily with tuning bands, bladder and main can pressure while using a Shockwiz and my riding experience to determine what's best for me. I mostly trail ride for health purposes but being an old MX racer, I'm good with catching some air on occasion. My old busted up body begged for a plush ride and the Topaz blew me away compared to my Fox Evolution shock. But it's taken me a year of experimenting to possibly find what works for me. Let me try to explain how I got here. I started off with a single tuning band on the positive side using higher pressures in the can, 200+ psi for my riding weight @ 180-185lbs, and 170psi in the bladder. The Shockwiz was screaming I needed to soften HSC, LSC and remove resistance. All the while my sag was 26 - 29%. So to soften things up I knew I'd have to remove air from the main can, but that would also cause my sag to be over 30%. I went radical, using 3+ & 2- bands, lowering my main can down to @ 182psi to maintain @ 30% sag. This got me close but the Wiz still asked me to soften up HSC & LSC. I opted to change the oil to Red Line Like Water. I rode this setup for most of the last year and loved it. But it had one glitch that drove me batty. On high speed repetitive hits like through a rock garden or long rooted downhill, occasionally the rear felt like it was packing or getting hung up. My rebound was only closed 2-3 clicks and DVO was suggesting maybe removing a rebound shim. I decided to try raising the pressure in the main can to give the shock more force in the deep compressions to quicken rebound up there. I ended up with 2+ & 1- tuning bands, 188psi in the can and 174psi in the bladder to add a bit of compression dampening. I just set it up this way last week and after doing a rear suspension bearing service, the Shockwiz agrees with the results. Everything scored out perfect on my last ride. Now the question is, can I repeat good results a few times?

Bottom line, what you ride, the feel you want and the response/feedback you get from the shock should drive your tuning decision. My radical 3+ & 2- with low pressure was smooth but that successive hit and hang ups drove me to change my tune. The feel between the latest tunes is very subtle. The only thing I can feel so far is the rear has a bit more pop off the face of jumps.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

IRBent said:


> I've experimented heavily with tuning bands, bladder and main can pressure while using a Shockwiz and my riding experience to determine what's best for me. I mostly trail ride for health purposes but being an old MX racer, I'm good with catching some air on occasion. My old busted up body begged for a plush ride and the Topaz blew me away compared to my Fox Evolution shock. But it's taken me a year of experimenting to possibly find what works for me. Let me try to explain how I got here. I started off with a single tuning band on the positive side using higher pressures in the can, 200+ psi for my riding weight @ 180-185lbs, and 170psi in the bladder. The Shockwiz was screaming I needed to soften HSC, LSC and remove resistance. All the while my sag was 26 - 29%. So to soften things up I knew I'd have to remove air from the main can, but that would also cause my sag to be over 30%. I went radical, using 3+ & 2- bands, lowering my main can down to @ 182psi to maintain @ 30% sag. This got me close but the Wiz still asked me to soften up HSC & LSC. I opted to change the oil to Red Line Like Water. I rode this setup for most of the last year and loved it. But it had one glitch that drove me batty. On high speed repetitive hits like through a rock garden or long rooted downhill, occasionally the rear felt like it was packing or getting hung up. My rebound was only closed 2-3 clicks and DVO was suggesting maybe removing a rebound shim. I decided to try raising the pressure in the main can to give the shock more force in the deep compressions to quicken rebound up there. I ended up with 2+ & 1- tuning bands, 188psi in the can and 174psi in the bladder to add a bit of compression dampening. I just set it up this way last week and after doing a rear suspension bearing service, the Shockwiz agrees with the results. Everything scored out perfect on my last ride. Now the question is, can I repeat good results a few times?
> 
> Bottom line, what you ride, the feel you want and the response/feedback you get from the shock should drive your tuning decision. My radical 3+ & 2- with low pressure was smooth but that successive hit and hang ups drove me to change my tune. The feel between the latest tunes is very subtle. The only thing I can feel so far is the rear has a bit more pop off the face of jumps.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Thank you for sharing your experience.

I´m also from an MX background with 20+ years racing. The trails around here aren´t very demanding and you can make do with a 100mm bike which is what most of my friends ride. I started out with such a bike, but coming from MX, I did not like it, and wanted a bit more to be able to have fun. But still I often ride non aggressive trails with friends on 100mm bikes, where I want a steady pedaling platform to be able to keep up.

Like you say, what I ride should drive my tuning decision and that´s why I´m looking for some input on how best to achieve that firm platform.

I´m quite satisfied with the settings for the sketchier trails where I have the shock fully open.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> Thank you for sharing your experience.
> 
> I´m also from an MX background with 20+ years racing. The trails around here aren´t very demanding and you can make do with a 100mm bike which is what most of my friends ride. I started out with such a bike, but coming from MX, I did not like it, and wanted a bit more to be able to have fun. But still I often ride non aggressive trails with friends on 100mm bikes, where I want a steady pedaling platform to be able to keep up.
> 
> ...


My experience and preference says, I want a good ride over the roughest trails in my area. So I tune for that. You can't have a perfect tune for the ugly and it not feel a bit firm on smooth trails. Although I'd assume you could tune plush for tame trails with the lever wide open, then close it to the middle position for rougher trails. I have not experimented with that and leave mine wide open unless I'm on a long steep uphill.

So what's your biggest complaint or what is it you're wanting to fix or make better?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

IRBent said:


> My experience and preference says, I want a good ride over the roughest trails in my area. So I tune for that. You can't have a perfect tune for the ugly and it not feel a bit firm on smooth trails. Although I'd assume you could tune plush for tame trails with the lever wide open, then close it to the middle position for rougher trails. I have not experimented with that and leave mine wide open unless I'm on a long steep uphill.
> 
> So what's your biggest complaint or what is it you're wanting to fix or make better?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Not much complaint, just looking to firm the pedaling platform up a bit and asked about how to best go about doing that.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> Not much complaint, just looking to firm the pedaling platform up a bit and asked about how to best go about doing that.


If you really like your setup as-is over the rough stuff, I'd suggest flipping the lever to firm up things on the smoother trails. Adding pressure or a tuning band to the negative will both work, as well as alter other parts of your ride. Do you ever use all of your travel under the current setup?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

IRBent said:


> If you really like your setup as-is over the rough stuff, I'd suggest flipping the lever to firm up things on the smoother trails. Adding pressure or a tuning band to the negative will both work, as well as alter other parts of your ride. Do you ever use all of your travel under the current setup?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I do flip the compression lever to firmest on smooth trails but would still like to stiffen it up some more. On the easier trails I don´t use all travel and that´s ok with me.

Actually the ultimate fix for me would be if I could make it so that the compression lever made a bigger change.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

I never bother with the compression lever. Makes such a subtle change that it's pretty worthless. Fortunately the Hightower doesn't really need it. Otherwise the Topaz is awesome.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

wenna said:


> I do flip the compression lever to firmest on smooth trails but would still like to stiffen it up some more. On the easier trails I don´t use all travel and that´s ok with me.
> 
> Actually the ultimate fix for me would be if I could make it so that the compression lever made a bigger change.


Your original list of options for making it snappier at the pedals sounded pretty good. I'd work through the options from easiest to hardest to implement:
- up the bladder pressure
- then up the main spring pressure and pull out a positive spacer
- go for a heavier weight damper oil.This last option is probably the most effective solution as it will affect LSC and LSR more than HSC/HSR, perfect for pedalling.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

fresh tracks said:


> Your original list of options for making it snappier at the pedals sounded pretty good. I'd work through the options from easiest to hardest to implement:
> - up the bladder pressure
> - then up the main spring pressure and pull out a positive spacer
> - go for a heavier weight damper oil.This last option is probably the most effective solution as it will affect LSC and LSR more than HSC/HSR, perfect for pedalling.


Changing the oil isn't too complicated but you'll need a bleed syringe. I wanted right the opposite of you, a more active and reactive suspension. So I lowered my shock oil weight twice, eventually settling on the lightest oil I could find.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

I would add negative spacers and run a little less sag. It'll take less pressure to get the same sag so you may need to add positive spacers as well to prevent bottoming out? We don't have any details on your setup. Bladder pressure affects damping across the board.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

Does anyone know if I can run my topaz upside down? The clearance for a water bottle on my Knolly Endorphin is super tight.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

buddiesconfusion said:


> Does anyone know if I can run my topaz upside down? The clearance for a water bottle on my Knolly Endorphin is super tight.


I'm sure it won't know the difference, nor will it matter. But if you desire a definitive answer, call DVO. They're very responsive and typically answer all calls.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

buddiesconfusion said:


> Does anyone know if I can run my topaz upside down? The clearance for a water bottle on my Knolly Endorphin is super tight.


Its fine. They have photos on their website that show piggy back up, down and vertical.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I’ve been quite happy with my Topaz setup, but can’t stop tinkering so I wonder if I can eek out even more performance. It feels good for all my riding. Fast SoCal decents with ruts and chunk, slower rocky single track, long fire road climbs, no drops over 2’, no jumps, no bermed g-out turns. 

What I would like to improve:
-More LSC for the climbs
-use more travel, I never bottom out and max it around 85-90%
-bit more mid stroke support

My setup:
-Santa Cruz Tallboy LTC
-200 PSI in main
-185 PSI in bladder
-3 clicks rebound 
-stock oil 
-one band in negative
-natural frequency feels good and balanced with my Diamond

LSC probably requires heavier oil or revolve (not going that far). Using more travel and getting better midstroke I think my next tweak may be:
-increase bladder pressure to boost the damping curve
-another negative band
-maybe reduce air pressure 5PSI
-lighter oil? But this would make LSC even lower

I don’t know that I can really do what I want due to the limitations of the LTc’s VPP2, but always tinkering.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Doug said:


> I've been quite happy with my Topaz setup, but can't stop tinkering so I wonder if I can eek out even more performance. It feels good for all my riding. Fast SoCal decents with ruts and chunk, slower rocky single track, long fire road climbs, no drops over 2', no jumps, no bermed g-out turns.
> 
> What I would like to improve:
> -More LSC for the climbs
> ...


Add another band to the negative chamber. That should fix/or mask teh LSC comments, mid stroke support and may lead to you going deeper in the stroke on mid size events.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

Anything from inside the shock that could come loose and cause a deep scratch in the air piston causing air leak, on an almost brand spanking new Topaz?

Don´t think a grain of sand or similar could cause this. 4th time on the bike and never been crashed or tampered with.

It might not look like much but it is quite deep and you can clearly feel it under your finger. And after 10 minutes riding you´ve lost half the air.


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## stonant (Mar 11, 2016)

Have a Topaz on the way; any heavier guys have recommendations for a starting point/base point setup? I'm 235lbs geared up on a v2 5010.


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## hulster (May 28, 2017)

wenna said:


> Anything from inside the shock that could come loose and cause a deep scratch in the air piston causing air leak, on an almost brand spanking new Topaz?
> 
> Don´t think a grain of sand or similar could cause this. 4th time on the bike and never been crashed or tampered with.
> 
> ...


Simple remove the can and take a a look. Maybe some of the seals does not sit in the right position. Did you open it yourself to add/remove some spacers?


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

hulster said:


> Simple remove the can and take a a look. Maybe some of the seals does not sit in the right position. Did you open it yourself to add/remove some spacers?


Nope never been opened. I've sent it off for warranty service now.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

wenna said:


> Nope never been opened. I've sent it off for warranty service now.


I have a terrible memory but it seems like some of the earlier Topaz shocks had some type issue that allowed some binding and scuffing. But from the pics I saw it didn't look like your pic. I hope everything works out and hate that tours having trouble with your new shock.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## stonant (Mar 11, 2016)

Anyone know the max number of spacers you can use?


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

stonant said:


> Anyone know the max number of spacers you can use?


4 positive, and i believe 3 negative.

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## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

Another stoked Topaz owner here. Just have one shakedown ride so far with the base settings recommended by Ronnie on my Hightower. It was a mellower trail than my normal ride but I was still getting most of the travel so I may need to pop in a spacer or increase air pressure. 

Also wasn't getting quite as much pop as I was used to so I'm going to open up the rebound one more notch and see how that goes. 

Night and day difference compared to the Monarch though. Now to address the fork...


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## 6uu6 (Jun 11, 2018)

zweigelt said:


> @all
> thank you for your help and sorry about my bad english its not my first language!
> I know about the progressive leverage ratio of my Jeffsy and think i got a well working basic setting for downhill...
> sometimes, mostly on cold days, i find the LSR could be a little less pronounced, On days <8°C (46F) i have to run it 1-2 klicks open. Maybe this could be a Problem on real cold Winterdays. Thinking about the "like Water" Fluid.
> ...


Hi zweigelt,
I also have a jeffsy (but 27.5) and a brand new topaz. Did you solve your issue?

(and I am also from Switzerland )


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## GeorgeLuni (Sep 9, 2011)

Hello, does anyone have any information on new metric, trunnion mounted Topaz? I am specifically interested in the 165x45 size because I own a Scott Spark 2017. Any idea if shocks fits the Spark frame? The original Fox NUDE Evol shock is mounted on it's head, same as on new Scott Genius frames. Does Topaz clear the frame with it's piggyback?

I shot the same question to DVO support via e-mail, but almost a month later, there is no reply...

Pic of the original setup, as you can see, space is quite limited:


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

GeorgeLuni said:


> Hello, does anyone have any information on new metric, trunnion mounted Topaz? I am specifically interested in the 165x45 size because I own a Scott Spark 2017. Any idea if shocks fits the Spark frame? The original Fox NUDE Evol shock is mounted on it's head, same as on new Scott Genius frames. Does Topaz clear the frame with it's piggyback?
> 
> I shot the same question to DVO support via e-mail, but almost a month later, there is no reply...
> 
> ...


They have one already but doubt it clears. I want the same thing.

They however have a inline shock called the opal that was supposed to come out around January but last I heard it will more likely be out the end of this year.
Even then it has to have the air valve in the right spot and the trunnion mount really high on the shock to clear the very tight deminsions.


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## GeorgeLuni (Sep 9, 2011)

Yeah, looks like it doesn't clear, but I wonder what their market is for that sized trunnion shock if it doesn't fit Sparks. Just Evil The Following? I checked Transition Smuggler, Norco Optic and the latest crop of Intense/Yeti/Santa Cruz short travel trail 29ers and they all use bigger shocks.

I really do hope it fits though, I am so tired of the stock NUDE shock on the Spark, it is really holding a stellar bike back. 

Any idea how to get a clarification from DVO? Or more info on Opal? Any forum people with an open communication channel care to help?

Thanks in advance.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

GeorgeLuni said:


> Any idea how to get a clarification from DVO? Or more info on Opal? Any forum people with an open communication channel care to help?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


They tend not to talk about release dates until the product is in stock. Smart move for a small company in my opinion. Every general release date that has been given in the past by them has been way off if I remember right. I like to think that's because they want to get it right.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

crimedog said:


> They tend not to talk about release dates until the product is in stock. Smart move for a small company in my opinion. Every general release date that has been given in the past by them has been way off if I remember right. I like to think that's because they want to get it right.


Call them up and ask if they have, or planning to have a shock to fit. They are really good about taking phone calls and answering even the most technical questions. My guess, after having talked to them maybe an hour or so in all by phone, their email tech support is lacking because they handle so much by phone.

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## GeorgeLuni (Sep 9, 2011)

I got a really fast response on Facebook. Why didn’t I think of it before ? They told me that judging by pics the Topaz won’t fit and that I should wait till end of the year or beginning of next one for Opal.

Really hope we get some options for Spark...


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

I love dvo but both the onyx and opal were supposedly releasing this January.

They are slow to release and the dates they give are generally a year off.

But I would rather them get it right. Rather then release and fix it later ala the entire video game industry.


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## GeorgeLuni (Sep 9, 2011)

Tbh I don’t care about brands that much. The first reutable manufacturer that comes up with a 165x45 trunnion shock will get my business. The stock Fox NUDE shock on Sparks is useless for anyone over 80 or so kg. And I am far from alone in thinking this... I’m hoping it will be DVO or Manitou .


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

GeorgeLuni said:


> Tbh I don't care about brands that much. The first reutable manufacturer that comes up with a 165x45 trunnion shock will get my business. The stock Fox NUDE shock on Sparks is useless for anyone over 80 or so kg. And I am far from alone in thinking this... I'm hoping it will be DVO or Manitou .


so this isn't good enough ? or won't fit ? won't fit is what I can reckon

*DVO Topaz Air Shock: 165 x 45mm, Trunnion*

https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/pr...165-x-45mm-trunnion?nosto=productpage-nosto-3

Maybe the Giant Factory Team DVO Topaz2 with sideways bladder will fit ?
impossible to get though, it is made only for Giant


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

I want topaz 2 so bad.

Quit playing with our emotions dvo release onyx sc opal and topaz 2.


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## InJ3cted (Apr 15, 2008)

I just recently built my 2018 pivot mach 5.5 with a diamond/topaz setup. Looking for some tips, I'm curious if other folks have a similar setup and can provide some feedback

I'm getting harshness at speed over chunky terrain (I ride in the las Vegas area)

Pedaling/OTT is good and plush it seems like front and rear firms up when at speed hitting rock gardens. The feeling is harsh and chattery and I'm bounced around a bit.

Below are my settings, topaz compression lever is set to open. 

6/22
Rider weight 160. 165-170 with gear
Topaz

1 band POS side

200psi main can

Sag at under D @ dvo logo on shock 15.3mm

Bladder psi 175

Rebound -4 from full positive

Diamond

115psi

Ott 5 from zero

Lsc 2

Hsc 2 from all minus

Rebound in the middle


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## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

InJ3cted said:


> I'm getting harshness at speed over chunky terrain (I ride in the las Vegas area)
> 
> Pedaling/OTT is good and plush it seems like front and rear firms up when at speed hitting rock gardens. The feeling is harsh and chattery and I'm bounced around a bit.


I'm experiencing something pretty similar.

Hightower, 210lbs rider.

200 psi in the reservoir.

245 in the main chamber.

Rebound 4 clicks from open.

1 volume spacer in POS, 0 NEG.

I'm nailing 30% sag so my pressure is right. Maybe slow down my rebound? Maybe a neg band?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

sternomac said:


> I'm experiencing something pretty similar.
> 
> Hightower, 210lbs rider.
> 
> ...


I ride a Bronson and have gone through numerous configs, testing each on a Shockwiz. My best setup yet has 2+ bands and 1- band. Main can pressure is @ 5 psi more than my riding weight with gear on and with sag @ 30%. My bladder pressure is @ 175psi which is close to my body weight. My rebound position is unknown due to the mushy clicks but I'd guess it's around 4-5, possibly even 6 clicks closed from full open. If you change your tuning band setup make sure you add small increments of air and equalize the shock by easing it down to full compression several times between each air addition.

The extra positive band will allow you to run less air which should help the top end compliance, making it softer. The extra negative band will help support you at the lower pressure and help keep you closer to the 30% sag with less air. Less air will also slow down your rebound on the full compression events because you won't build quite as much pressure during compression.

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## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

Thanks man. I’ll give a few more bands a shot. Appreciate it.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

sternomac said:


> Thanks man. I'll give a few more bands a shot. Appreciate it.


Let me know what you think. Due to our weight differences and the amount of travel differences between the Bronson and Hightower, what's ideal for me may be too soft for you.

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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

InJ3cted said:


> I'm getting harshness at speed over chunky terrain (I ride in the las Vegas area)
> 
> Pedaling/OTT is good and plush it seems like front and rear *firms up when at speed hitting rock gardens*. The feeling is harsh and chattery and I'm bounced around a bit.


Could it be just a bit too much rebound damping and the suspension packs on repeated, fast hits...?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Verttii said:


> Could it be just a bit too much rebound damping and the suspension packs on repeated, fast hits...?


I'm pretty sure what you describe is exactly what was happening to me. At the time my rebound knob was maybe 2-3 clicks closed from full open. I could go down a set of stairs and the o-ring on the rear would be at the end of the shaft. I removed a positive tuning band and upped my can pressure to fix the issue. The extra pressure required me to close my rebound another click or two so the slow speed didn't buck too much. I get a bit more pop off the face of jumps now which will take some getting used to.

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## ttchad (Jun 28, 2007)

I rode for the first time and have a similar feeling. 
-Descend mode and as fast a rebound as possible, need a little more LSC. Any drops or jumps and I use all of the travel.
-Throw the lever into trail mode and the rear just pinged off everything.
Options
-More bladder pressure but it may become too damp.
-Reshim for more LSC as I do not need the other modes. Thinner oil for faster rebound.
-Swap for a Jade

Knolly Warden
3 or 4 bands in pos
1 Neg
Sag set around 20-25 percent
190 in the bladder



sternomac said:


> I'm experiencing something pretty similar.
> 
> Hightower, 210lbs rider.
> 
> ...


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

ttchad said:


> I rode for the first time and have a similar feeling.
> -Descend mode and as fast a rebound as possible, need a little more LSC. Any drops or jumps and I use all of the travel.
> -Throw the lever into trail mode and the rear just pinged off everything.
> Options
> ...


I swapped out the oil to Red Line Like Water. It's the thinnest I could find.

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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

ttchad said:


> I rode for the first time and have a similar feeling.
> -Descend mode and as fast a rebound as possible, need a little more LSC. Any drops or jumps and I use all of the travel.
> -Throw the lever into trail mode and the rear just pinged off everything.
> Options
> ...


If you do swap for a jade please update in the jade thread. Im running one on my Rip and would like some more input from others since I am also using a topaz from time to time.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> I swapped out the oil to Red Line Like Water. It's the thinnest I could find.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


How did it affect your LSC, especially seated climbing pedal bob.

I would like to go to thinner oil but it would likely impact LSC (orifice damping) more than HSC and rebound (shim damping).


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> How did it affect your LSC, especially seated climbing pedal bob.
> 
> I would like to go to thinner oil but it would likely impact LSC (orifice damping) more than HSC and rebound (shim damping).


Funny you should ask. Per a Shockwiz my LSC and even HSC needed softening up. Yes, I considered a shim stack adjustment but thought I'd try a lighter oil first. I went to Red Line's Extra light 2.5W oil first. I didn't get the desired results so I then went with their Like Water suspension fluid. Even after doing that I'd occasionally get a feeling like the rear was hanging up on high speed chatter. So I assumed the rear wasn't rebounding quick enough. Taking on a flight of stairs would indeed cause the rear to pack. So I changed my tuning bands to allow more pressure in the main can as well as added 4-5psi in the bladder. My last run with the Shockwiz netted me a perfect score with 100% confidence. Not to say all future rides will be like the last, but at least things are improving.

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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I have a 2017 hightower. I run my topaz long shocked with 57mm stroke. My setup is:

185lb rider weight - 190lbs +/- geared
215 psi main chamber
185 psi bladder
2 positive bands, 1 negative band
compression setting - medium almost always, firm for fire road climbs, I pretty much never use open
rebound - tune to taste. I basically don't touch the other settings now that they are dialed in and i change rebound based on how the bike feels or what type of riding i'm doing... ie, jumps = slower, trail riding a bit on teh faster side. I basically have a rebound window of 1-2 clicks max.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> Funny you should ask. Per a Shockwiz my LSC and even HSC needed softening up. Yes, I considered a shim stack adjustment but thought I'd try a lighter oil first.


I like how it works when riding at speed or on rough trails but It trends on the over dampened end for HSC. The main gripe is pedal bib on climbs. If I could I'd like to go to thinner oil to reduce HSC a bit and reduce the LSC orifice size that would be ideal. This isn't a climber friendly shock and I realize it was designed to go downhill. My bike is VPP2 and using a 1x also messes with th anti squat.

I will be calling dvo to see if they have any suggestions.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> I like how it works when riding at speed or on rough trails but It trends on the over dampened end for HSC. The main gripe is pedal bib on climbs. If I could I'd like to go to thinner oil to reduce HSC a bit and reduce the LSC orifice size that would be ideal. This isn't a climber friendly shock and I realize it was designed to go downhill. My bike is VPP2 and using a 1x also messes with th anti squat.
> 
> I will be calling dvo to see if they have any suggestions.


Pedal Bob isn't severe on my VPP. Although occasionally I will flip the lever over on the ugliest of climbs. The truth be told, I prefer not to climb though. LOL

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

IRBent said:


> Pedal Bob isn't severe on my VPP. Although occasionally I will flip the lever over on the ugliest of climbs. The truth be told, I prefer not to climb though. LOL


The Tallboy with VPP2 is a bit "wallowy". I made it worse going to a 30t 1x. It was designed for a 2x drivetrain and 22-24t small ring for climbing. That puts anti-squat around 110%. With my 30t and 11-46 it drops to around 90%.

Here in SoCal you can't escape climbing. A grind up 2,000-3,000 feet is normal. My short quick loop is 7 miles with a 2 mile 1,300' climb with many 12-15% grade sections. More LSC on the fireroads would be nice.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> The Tallboy with VPP2 is a bit "wallowy". I made it worse going to a 30t 1x. It was designed for a 2x drivetrain and 22-24t small ring for climbing. That puts anti-squat around 110%. With my 30t and 11-46 it drops to around 90%.
> 
> Here in SoCal you can't escape climbing. A grind up 2,000-3,000 feet is normal. My short quick loop is 7 miles with a 2 mile 1,300' climb with many 12-15% grade sections. More LSC on the fireroads would be nice.


I'm running a 30T 1X setup as well. Using the lever firms the rear up enough for me that I don't notice the efficiency loss. I seem to think I'm the least efficient of the two.

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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I called DVO and was told a second band in the negative and max out the bladder pressure would make a difference. The bladder pressure would increase the damping curve across the board increasing the HSC, but I could drop my pressure 5PSI and probably make up the difference there without messing with my spring rate too much. 

I'll give the second negative band a try first and see how that goes. Then the bladder since that is easy to change while riding. If it still doesn't work out as I'd like DVO can tune it to have more LSC. Its calls like those that make me want to sell my wife's Fox and get her a Topaz (I'll probably wait for the Opal).

I just started noticing this more than in the past. When I first had the bike about 18 months ago it would take me 45 minutes to make it to the top (with rest stops). Last weekend I set a PR with 28.5 minutes. At that pace on those hills it really stresses your suspension kinematics and pedal bob becomes quite obvious. My friend who was behind me reminded me to adjust my shock and was surprised it was already in the "climb" mode. His trek is nearly a full lock out in comparison.

However on the technical climbs I use the middle setting and the shock provides support yet is responsive to the rocks and ruts we have. It really shines in everything, but hard fire road climbs.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> I called DVO and was told a second band in the negative and max out the bladder pressure would make a difference. The bladder pressure would increase the damping curve across the board increasing the HSC, but I could drop my pressure 5PSI and probably make up the difference there without messing with my spring rate too much.
> 
> I'll give the second negative band a try first and see how that goes. Then the bladder since that is easy to change while riding. If it still doesn't work out as I'd like DVO can tune it to have more LSC. Its calls like those that make me want to sell my wife's Fox and get her a Topaz (I'll probably wait for the Opal).
> 
> ...


DVO's support is second to none. Maybe the extra negative band will make things right for you. I myself like the fact that the switch doesn't fully lockout the rear. Yes, a hate wasted energy in the movement, but I hate it even worse when the rear hits something and doesn't give. You lose all momentum and stall.

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## Hools (Feb 12, 2012)

InJ3cted said:


> I just recently built my 2018 pivot mach 5.5 with a diamond/topaz setup. Looking for some tips, I'm curious if other folks have a similar setup and can provide some feedback
> 
> I'm getting harshness at speed over chunky terrain (I ride in the las Vegas area)
> 
> ...


I run a Topaz on my Turner Burner, which has DW Link suspension like the Pivot. I'm getting my best result with no bands in the positive side and three in the negative. At your weight you shouldn't need 200 psi in the main can.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I just want to add that I was struggling with my topaz feeling harsh or chattery on my hightower for quite a while after I got it. Definitely to the point where I was considering putting a coil rear shock on the bike. I then took the vorsprung luftkappe out of my pike RC and installed a push ACS3 kit into the fork. Since doing that, i'm completely satisfied with the topaz... in fact I used to use the open setting on teh topaz and I no longer can, it's just simply not supportive enough and the chatter has seemingly gone away. 

My guess is that the chatteriness of the fork was overloading and translating to the back end of the bike.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

minimusprime said:


> I just want to add that I was struggling with my topaz feeling harsh or chattery on my hightower for quite a while after I got it. Definitely to the point where I was considering putting a coil rear shock on the bike. I then took the vorsprung luftkappe out of my pike RC and installed a push ACS3 kit into the fork. Since doing that, i'm completely satisfied with the topaz... in fact I used to use the open setting on teh topaz and I no longer can, it's just simply not supportive enough and the chatter has seemingly gone away.
> 
> My guess is that the chatteriness of the fork was overloading and translating to the back end of the bike.


I'm not arguing or saying you're wrong. But I've always thought both suspension ends were independent.

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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

IRBent said:


> I'm not arguing or saying you're wrong. But I've always thought both suspension ends were independent.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


they are for sure not. I can tell you from experience racing 600cc and 250cc street motorcycles (on racing circuits, not the streets). Errors in high and low speed compression translate impacts to the other end quite a bit.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Just want to talk about my experience today. I was getting ready to sell my 16 Hightower with the Topaz and Pike RC. I thought I would replace it with a 120/110 FS to better round out the bike collection. Did the math and realized that would be too much of hit. I upgraded the internals of my Pike with the new Charger 2 damper, the new Debonair air piston and moved over my MRP Ramp Control Cartridge. I went from 1 volume spacer in the positive chamber to 2+/1-, about 5 clicks in from open for rebound and about 270 PSI in the can (weigh about 230,235 kitted up). The bike had so much pop compared to before. I can't jump for **** but the bike was much easier to get off the ground and I felt very supported in berms. The back end did kind of get hung up going roots, but this may be due to VPP. Anyway, I love this shock! I have read others that have said that wanted or needed to upgrade their fork after getting the Topaz and know I what they were talking about.


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## ttchad (Jun 28, 2007)

Has anyone played with the shims in the compression loader or piggyback?


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey guys. Quick question. My Topaz has a slight notchy feeling in the first 4-5mm of compression, with some sound also. Sometimes it just sounds like a valve opening and closing, but sometimes it also sounds clunky, or like a slight knock. Wondering if this is at all concerning. Cant be felt or heard on trail, but seems a little unusual. I know a lot of shocks have a little notch when the neg/pos chambers play together at the beginning of the stroke, but the noise isn't usually a thing.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

mjw said:


> Hey guys. Quick question. My Topaz has a slight notchy feeling in the first 4-5mm of compression, with some sound also. Sometimes it just sounds like a valve opening and closing, but sometimes it also sounds clunky, or like a slight knock. Wondering if this is at all concerning. Cant be felt or heard on trail, but seems a little unusual. I know a lot of shocks have a little notch when the neg/pos chambers play together at the beginning of the stroke, but the noise isn't usually a thing.


not normal for the topaz. If you're mechanically inclined, i'd do a rebuild on it yourself, otherwise contact DVO and maybe send it in.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

I was thinking it was a odd. I don't remember it when new. Meanwhile the shock has only 6 rides on it so that kind of stinks.

I think am would be inclined to try, but tool wise I may be under equipped for the full service. Sending to the guys at DVO seems to be the best option. 

It is definitely my luck to have such issues with a product that is otherwise deemed as super reliable. I think I attract lemon products. Fortunately the guys at DVO are great.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

mjw said:


> I was thinking it was a odd. I don't remember it when new. Meanwhile the shock has only 6 rides on it so that kind of stinks.
> 
> I think am would be inclined to try, but tool wise I may be under equipped for the full service. Sending to the guys at DVO seems to be the best option.
> 
> It is definitely my luck to have such issues with a product that is otherwise deemed as super reliable. I think I attract lemon products. Fortunately the guys at DVO are great.


If you're mechanically inclined, it only takes a few tools. But if you only have 6 rides, DVO might fix it for free.

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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

IRBent said:


> If you're mechanically inclined, it only takes a few tools. But if you only have 6 rides, DVO might fix it for free.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I suspect so yes. Sould be a warranty job. Riding this weekend. It it doesn't work itself out, I've noted DVO with pretty much what I have written above and will coordinate with them Monday.

Tool wise, I see some special tools like the one they used to pull the bladder. Also, oil isn't always easy to get here. The cost adds up. Looking at the service pdf, I feel like it could be a bleed issue. Maybe a poor bleed?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

mjw said:


> I suspect so yes. Sould be a warranty job. Riding this weekend. It it doesn't work itself out, I've noted DVO with pretty much what I have written above and will coordinate with them Monday.
> 
> Tool wise, I see some special tools like the one they used to pull the bladder. Also, oil isn't always easy to get here. The cost adds up. Looking at the service pdf, I feel like it could be a bleed issue. Maybe a poor bleed?


No special tools required. A hex key or two and an 18mm wrench. The bladder tool...., just use your shock pump. Remove the keeper C ring, connect to the Schrader as usual and pull.

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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

IRBent said:


> If you're mechanically inclined, it only takes a few tools. But if you only have 6 rides, DVO might fix it for free.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Is there an easy way to bleed without complete disassembly?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

mjw said:


> Is there an easy way to bleed without complete disassembly?


Definitely. Remove the shock and put it in a soft jaw vice with the bleed port up. Connect a syringe to the bleed port and follow the instructions in the rebuild. I'd add to those instructions, after 3-4 slow compressions to dislodge the air bubbles, do several quick compressions too. Then rotate the entire shock a bit in the vice to change the bleed port angle, tap on the shock with a screwdriver handle then repeat the compressions and bleeds. Keep this up until you can't get any bubbles in the syringe.

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## sternomac (Jun 7, 2013)

IRBent said:


> Let me know what you think. Due to our weight differences and the amount of travel differences between the Bronson and Hightower, what's ideal for me may be too soft for you.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


So a few people plus you mentioned they are 2+, 1- with the bands on VPP bikes. Made the switch yesterday and ended up shaving off some PSI as well to hit the 30% sag.

Bike tracked much better through fast rough stuff. Just felt even smoother than before.

I did bottom out once on a powerful G out. When I rode it back the opposite way I did not bottom so I'm thinking I'm pretty much dead on. Maybe adding a few PSI would alleviate any bottom issues but I don't have a digital pump yet so I'm gonna leave it for now.

I didn't hit any drops today like I would on my normal trails so I need to see if I will bottom on those as well before I make any changes.

Monarch<Topaz<Finely tuned Topaz

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Love this forum.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

sternomac said:


> So a few people plus you mentioned they are 2+, 1- with the bands on VPP bikes. Made the switch yesterday and ended up shaving off some PSI as well to hit the 30% sag.
> 
> Bike tracked much better through fast rough stuff. Just felt even smoother than before.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're very close to dialed. The digital pump is something I tend to forget to mention. I guess I take it for granted and had to buy one because I like precision. It doesn't matter that it reads 200psi spot on. Just so long as it always reads 200psi as the same number time and time again. Yes, I can tell a difference in the way the Topaz performs with as little as maybe a 2psi change. So now that you're where you are, play with that, adding maybe 2psi to the can, or the bladder, and see which you like best. More in the can will make it pop and livelier, while adding it in the bladder will make the rear more mellow and a tad slower to compress.
Hint: I bought a Lezyne pump that has one of the retracting nuts that opens/closes the Schrader valve. I've learned that simply backing off that nut to close the Schrader valve before disengaging the pump causes the psi to drop. It only drops maybe 1psi in the main can due to volume in the can. But it can drop 2-3psi in the bladder. So no matter what brand pump, or whether it has a Schrader engagement but. Pay strict attention to the pressure as you remove the pump. Write down the pressure you think it was when the valve closed. My Lezyne has a tad bit of free movement between having the engagement but turned all the way in to depress the Schrader. Due to the high pressure, as I back the nut off to close the Schrader, the fitting will extend in length maybe ⅛" and will make a pop sound. At that point I know it's safe to depress the tiny bleed button on the pump and it will only bleed the leftover pressure from the pump. It's also the point I use to write down the pressure in the shock. I find due to the larger volume in forks, I don't lose pressure when backing that nut out. Not unless the true pressure was 79.5, with the pump reading whole numbers only so it's rounded up to 80psi, as I back it off it might drop to reading the whole number of 79psi. If I had my preference and did it again, I'd try to buy a pump that read to the tenths place. I'm anal like that. 

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

I want to make my 200x50 a 200x54 to get just a bit more travel out of my Tallboy LTc. The white travel reducer is easy to remove, but I don't want the full 57mm stroke. 

Has anyone found any way to customize the stroke? I could grind the spacer down, but I'd prefer to do that to a spare (DVO probably can sell these). Would Nylon washers work?

It seems the actual contact area is pretty small considering it has the 15mm shim and an o-ring on top that actually contacts the piston. Something DYI should work, right? Or am I missing something that would blow up my shock on bottom out?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Now that I have the pressures and tuning bands worked out, this shock is amazing. It's actually smooth enough to keep up with the Ribbon Coil on the front.

It handles both the fast chunk and big drops perfectly.


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## KillingtonVT (Apr 1, 2004)

I have a Topaz on the way for my Wrecky. Any Evil riders out there that want to share their set up?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Doug said:


> I want to make my 200x50 a 200x54 to get just a bit more travel out of my Tallboy LTc. The white travel reducer is easy to remove, but I don't want the full 57mm stroke.
> 
> Has anyone found any way to customize the stroke? I could grind the spacer down, but I'd prefer to do that to a spare (DVO probably can sell these). Would Nylon washers work?
> 
> It seems the actual contact area is pretty small considering it has the 15mm shim and an o-ring on top that actually contacts the piston. Something DYI should work, right? Or am I missing something that would blow up my shock on bottom out?


DVO makes a 2.5mm spacer but it requires taking the shaft off.


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Doug said:


> DVO makes a 2.5mm spacer but it requires taking the shaft off.


Hmmmm I kind of felt I could use little more travel on rear of my Hightower. I didn't really look into 200x57 which I think is 150mm? which will have problem when bottoming out unless you do some mod or something.

I wonder if going with 2.5mm spacer making it 24.5 would be safe with Hightower. How much of travel would I end up with 24.5? 144.6mm?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

HaxEJxuK said:


> Hmmmm I kind of felt I could use little more travel on rear of my Hightower. I didn't really look into 200x57 which I think is 150mm? which will have problem when bottoming out unless you do some mod or something.
> 
> I wonder if going with 2.5mm spacer making it 24.5 would be safe with Hightower. How much of travel would I end up with 24.5? 144.6mm?


Leverage ratio = travel/stroke
2.7 = 135/50
2.7 = x/54.5
2.7 * 54.5 = x
X=147.15

I recall someone long shocked a Hightower with a monarch and 53mm was the most they could comfortably use with knobier tires. Otherwise they got tire rub or rocks stuck in the tread hitting the frame.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Don't remember if this was posted here before there is a company out of Seattle fabricating linkages specifically for longshocking the Hightower: https://outsiderbikes.com/products/missing-link-hightower-lt-conversion-link

I have been wondering the opposite of this recent conversation: If I wanted to shorten the travel on my Topaz by like 5mm, how would I go about that? Is it possible?


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

rodzilla said:


> Don't remember if this was posted here before there is a company out of Seattle fabricating linkages specifically for longshocking the Hightower: https://outsiderbikes.com/products/missing-link-hightower-lt-conversion-link
> 
> I have been wondering the opposite of this recent conversation: If I wanted to shorten the travel on my Topaz by like 5mm, how would I go about that? Is it possible?


If you have the 200x50 Topaz there is already a spacer in it and all you have to do is add a little bit to that spacer. How much you'll have to calculate.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Hey guys

Having some hard luck with my Topaz. From the start it's been notchy and noisy, as I have posted about a week ago or more.

I just did a full bleed. Cracked the bleed screw and it spewed out airated oil like crazy. I can. Only assume the Factory bleed was a bad one.

Without a simple bleed guide, from what I could glean I did this:

Let air out of main can, and bladder valves.

Remove can.

Put the shock in a vice and remove bleed screw. 

Dumped old oil, and did a full bleed, working from multiple angles until it seems to stop releasing air bubbles. I used Spectro Golden 2.5wt.

Reassemble.

So - the results - the notch has gone, and the bit of knocking is gone, but there is still some sound being produced at the beginning of compression and rebound - perhaps valves opening and closing? Is this normal? Or does the topaz run completely silent for you guys? And perhaps there is still some air in there?

Did I miss a step? And advise would be appreciated.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Sorry for your troubles mjw. Since you replaced the oil I would expect air in the reservoir so I think you'll have to pull the bladder out and follow the manual in terms of replacing it. Luckily that's not very difficult either.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

crimedog said:


> Sorry for your troubles mjw. Since you replaced the oil I would expect air in the reservoir so I think you'll have to pull the bladder out and follow the manual in terms of replacing it. Luckily that's not very difficult either.


Thanks a lot for the feedback.

I'm curious. Does that mean I will need to reblead?

If I am seeing this right...remove bladder, fill with oil, replace bladder, and bleed once again?

Cheers!


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

mjw said:


> Thanks a lot for the feedback.
> 
> I'm curious. Does that mean I will need to reblead?
> 
> ...


Yes you should rebleed with a syringe, you'll just be starting with a bled reservoir this time. I would also move some oil back and forth with the syringe to make sure there isn't any air trapped in the housing before you put the bladder in.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

crimedog said:


> Yes you should rebleed with a syringe, you'll just be starting with a bled reservoir this time. I would also move some oil back and forth with the syringe to make sure there isn't any air trapped in the housing before you put the bladder in.


Awesome. Just through with this, and it helped a bit.

Can I ask you one final question. When your shock is in your bike, and inflated, and you compress by hand/body weight. Does your shock make any noise at all, or silent? Mine is still making a small amount of noise inside the shock. Normal? Or not so much?

Still curious if it might be air transfer into and out of the little ports on the body between pos/neg. They were both goopy and blew out some oil/grease mix as I was compressing the shock while bleeding.


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## wenna (Jul 7, 2016)

I´ve never bled the Topaz but a trick I use when bleeding brakes is to produce negative pressure. The negativ pressure makes extremely tiny air bubbles large enough to escape. You can even produce air bubbles in oil with no visible bubbles.
So maby if you, with shock in full extension, pull upp on the syringe?


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

mjw said:


> Awesome. Just through with this, and it helped a bit.
> 
> Can I ask you one final question. When your shock is in your bike, and inflated, and you compress by hand/body weight. Does your shock make any noise at all, or silent? Mine is still making a small amount of noise inside the shock. Normal? Or not so much?
> 
> Still curious if it might be air transfer into and out of the little ports on the body between pos/neg. They were both goopy and blew out some oil/grease mix as I was compressing the shock while bleeding.


Technically there's no reason for a damper to make noise. That said my diamond and Jade do on rebound, tbh I'm not sure about the topaz because I haven't used it in a while. Not enough to notice while riding certainly.

I'm confused about the oil/grease you are describing. Was it coming out of the piston in the reservoir? Or are you talking about the air can?


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## Fuel53 (Nov 1, 2006)

Have one on order for my ‘17 Specialized Enduro from my LBS- waiting almost a month which seems long. Can anyone confirm the mounting hardware size? I have seen 25.4x8mm but that may be for the Stumpjumper. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

mjw said:


> Awesome. Just through with this, and it helped a bit.
> 
> Can I ask you one final question. When your shock is in your bike, and inflated, and you compress by hand/body weight. Does your shock make any noise at all, or silent? Mine is still making a small amount of noise inside the shock. Normal? Or not so much?
> 
> Still curious if it might be air transfer into and out of the little ports on the body between pos/neg. They were both goopy and blew out some oil/grease mix as I was compressing the shock while bleeding.


I have also never done the bleed but the only time the shock has made sounds for me is when I had too much grease in the shock. I had to remove the excess grease, lightly regrease, keeping away from the port holes and the sounds went away. I have also replaced the o-ring between the chambers in the process as mine felt a little flimsy. No sounds after that.


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

I also have an 2017 Enduro. This PB post measured the dimensions and it was 19xM8. I pushed out the pin in the Monarch shock and used that in my new Topaz.
https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/x_directtolastpost/?commentid=6355094


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

crimedog said:


> Technically there's no reason for a damper to make noise. That said my diamond and Jade do on rebound, tbh I'm not sure about the topaz because I haven't used it in a while. Not enough to notice while riding certainly.
> 
> I'm confused about the oil/grease you are describing. Was it coming out of the piston in the reservoir? Or are you talking about the air can?


When you remove the can, there is the positive and negative chamber. Both have a small hole in them. There was some.goopy grease shooting out of those little ports. I'm almost certain those are the cause of the small amount of residual noise.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

rodzilla said:


> I have also never done the bleed but the only time the shock has made sounds for me is when I had too much grease in the shock. I had to remove the excess grease, lightly regrease, keeping away from the port holes and the sounds went away. I have also replaced the o-ring between the chambers in the process as mine felt a little flimsy. No sounds after that.


Mine had grease coming out of the port holes...I am thinking now that this may be the issue.


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## MiWi (Jan 1, 2013)

My Topaz just arrived. I´ve mounted it in my 2018 Smuggler and made a first setup.
(not ridden yet, this evening after work)

The bladder had only 60PSI, I aired it up to 190PSI.
(edit: the shock pump read 60psi after beeing attached, the pump has been pre pressurized bevor screwing the attachment down completely)

Did your bladders come pressurized to the 170-200PSI range or is this normal to be that low out of the box ?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Is 60 psi what your shock pump read after attaching it, or does that include a correction for pressure lost when screwing in the pump?


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## MiWi (Jan 1, 2013)

I know, the bladder is a very small volume and attaching the pump and filling the pump hose from the bladder will reduce the pressure down to maybe like 50%.
I did a pre pump / pre loading of the pump to appr. 150psi (I always pre load to what pressure is expected in the chamber beeing attached).
The shown PSI will never be exactly what has been in the bladder, but I hoped somewhere in the ballpark like 30-40PSI off. I did not expect it to read that low. 

Anyhow, I just set it up an will have a ride. I´ll keep an eye on the bladder pressure. Which means pumping it up to desired pressure every couple of rides. (No way to check pressure on those small volumes without quite a big error / loss from attaching a pump.)

I´m 220 lbs geared up. Starting with 190PSI in the bladder, 210 in the airchamber (Gives me the recommended 16-17mm sag), 2+/1- band. LSR 3 clicks from fully open. Can´t wait to ride it this afternoon.

First impression when setting the shock up:
The forces to get the Topaz moving are so much less than they were with the stock DPS (quite new, well greased). I can move it with 2 fingers on the saddle despite the 210psi. That was impossible with the DPS, I needed a good amount of pressure with my whole hand to the saddle.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

OK, clearly you're not new at this  Just had to check. Yeah, 60 psi sounds low. I'd check the Schrader port with some soapy water but other than that, stick with your game plan of keeping an eye on it. Enjoy the new ride!


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

MiWi said:


> I know, the bladder is a very small volume and attaching the pump and filling the pump hose from the bladder will reduce the pressure down to maybe like 50%.
> I did a pre pump / pre loading of the pump to appr. 150psi (I always pre load to what pressure is expected in the chamber beeing attached).
> The shown PSI will never be exactly what has been in the bladder, but I hoped somewhere in the ballpark like 30-40PSI off. I did not expect it to read that low.
> 
> ...


The air volume of that bladder is very low, it drops a lot when you attach the pump. I wouldn't be alarmed by it.

I have mine on the same bike, 2018 Smuggler Carbon and weigh 220ish, as well. Here is my setup at the moment:

225psi in the positve
1+ spacer, 0- spacers
185 in the bladder
Rebound much closer to closed

Keep me posted on your setup, I'll be curious to see where you land on it.


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## MiWi (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks for sharing your setup.

Of course mine will change a lot in the first couple of rides. It´s just the first guess frrom the "parking lot feeling". I´ll share how the setup changes after the first couple of rides.

I had the DPS rebound fully open. Which surprised me a bit, because usually on my other bikes I have to run a fair bit of rebound because of the air spring rate / pressure.
(for reference, the DPS on my Django 29 is nearly fully closed, most of my other bikes I´m usually in the 60-70% towards closed range)

The DPS was bottoming out nearly every trail (15-16mm sag, 0.9 volume spacer, LSC 2 in open mode). I felt like the midstroke support was not really good. The rear suspension stiffened/packed under repeated hits (long root sections) and the wheel started to get hung up on the hits almost like hitting the brakes.
Small bump sensitivity wasn´t overly good in my opinion (partly caused by running quite little sag, suggested 16-17mm)

I cusious how the Topaz will change the feeling from the rear suspension.
Out of the office in one hour, can´t wait to ride the Topaz...


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^

pump bladder
disconnect pump
reconnect pump
note the drop. this is pump drop

the bladder does have a low volume at high pressure, and just sitting there a normal
Topaz will lose bladder pressure all by itself and I am not talking about pump drop.
it is just a fact that bladder is tiny and all things weep a little bit of air. on the bladder this equates to something you need to watch more often than the fork or air can on the shock.

so, it's pretty easy to do. check bladder pressure every 5 days or 2 rides. I check mine every pre-ride and it drops by about 5-10 or more in a week (I am accounting for pump drop) dependent on the phase of the moon and what I been riding. I consider it normal stuff. my bike came with a pumped up topaz and arrived at 80lbs in bladder, and the same story for that maker shipping other bikes with topaz installed, almost everyone had to top up the bladder after 2-3 weeks of sitting around. not a defect in my eyes...just awareness that normal schrader and seal losses all shocka may have will show up more on that tiny bladder chamber.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

127.0.0.1 said:


> ^
> 
> pump bladder
> disconnect pump
> ...


i second this. i always check my topaz before rides where i want it to ride exactly "right." usually if i don't, expect a slightly "softer" ride as the bladder has likely lost some pressure. sometimes i even plan for this. sometimes have even noticed it by the end of a day at the bike park.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

I hope this loss of pressure is only through the Schrader valve. But a part of me says it would be foolish to think that high pressure air couldn't slowly make it's way through the rubber bladder and into the oil.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

Yeah I've noticed the bladder pressure drops in between rides, its kind of a PITA actually, the Topaz might be a one and done for me.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Imho4ep said:


> Yeah I've noticed the bladder pressure drops in between rides, its kind of a PITA actually, the Topaz might be a one and done for me.


it was a bit better after i replaced the valve but went back to normal loss pretty quick. once i accepted it as a normal part of the shock, i stopped worrying about it though. topaz is pretty great for bikes on the cusp b/w trail and enduro duties. haven't ridden a dpx2 though.

still going to coil on my next bike though!


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Have you guys reached out to DVO to ask about that? I've had two of them and neither have had any drop in bladder pressure over long term.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

Adodero said:


> Have you guys reached out to DVO to ask about that? I've had two of them and neither have had any drop in bladder pressure over long term.


they said it was a normal wear issue for the valve when i asked last year. had them service it over the winter, including replacing valve. haven't asked since service. probably a compounding issue since the valve wears more quickly the more often you have to attach a pump. at least that's what they said when i asked.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

You guys know you can simple replace the core in a Schrader valve and move on, right?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## MiWi (Jan 1, 2013)

Thanks guys for the information. So I´m sure it was normal loss from beeing stored at the shop for an unknown time. I´ll check bladder pressure every week. I don´t mind. I check tire pressure before every ride as well.


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## MiWi (Jan 1, 2013)

I had the first 4 hours ride on the Topaz and I really like it a lot.

I use it in a Smuggler 2018. My riding is more like working with the terrain, pumping a lot, looking for alternative linechoices and so on. I´m not that "plowing through stuff in a straight line no matter what".

I rode a familiar trail repeatedly a couple of times first. That trail got a bit from everything . (chatter, roots, berms, offcamber corners, rollers and in the end a 25-30ft jump with a small and short takeoff that needs hard pushing into the suspension and pulling hard and landing on a transition that is almost flat and uses quite a bit of travel) 
After two runs the first thing that was evident: I had to throw out the neg. chamber spacer. To much support in the initial stroke / around sag. With 0 neg. spacer it was spot on.

The rebound is now 5 clicks from open. (3 was to fast)
190 PSI bladder.
Airchamber 210Psi with 2+ spacers.
(This is the only thing I´ll test the next time. Upping pressure to 220PSI and reducing to 1+ spacer.)

Then I rode all my other hometrails. I ride those trails 3 times a week and know them quite good. 

The Topaz has a midstroke support I have never experienced with any other shock.
(CCDB Air, DB Inline Air, Vivid Air, Mc Leod, Monarch RT3, Float DPS). Really fits the way I like to ride. This changed even the whole balance on the bike. In a very good way.

I ride a 140mm Pike with Fast factory piston kit (Chargertuning) and an AWK airkit (two pos chambers like Manitou IRT, 90PSI mainchamber / 130 PSI IRT chamber). The AWK ist maxed out for strongest midstroke support. Quite a firm setup on the fork.
With the Fox DPS I always felt like the rear end lacked support as well as small bump sensitivity compared to the front.
Now with the Topaz both suspensions feel very similar. Very matched and composed. I even had to put 10 PSI more in the fork. The pike had quite a few bottom outs where I usually have 10mm left. 

Jumping / bunny hops are also great with the Topaz. No more pushing through the travel on takeoffs.
Also quite obvious: Landings and any kind of big hits get soaked up / damped super quiet. It´s not like it´s overly plush. More like very controlled support and damping.
Small bump sensitivity is way better than with the DPS.

Long story short: Maybe the closest thing to coil like feeling I had till now.
I love it.

(sorry for the chaotic spelling, I´m from germany)

Michael


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Nice mini Miwi review. I hope it continues to impress you. The bladder pressure has a lot to do with support and dampening too. That's something you just can't change on other shocks.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

I'm pretty much done setting up fork with Shockwiz and I hooked it up to start setting up Topaz starting tomorrow. 

One question I have is what to do with Bladder? If I follow calibration wizard, it will ask me to deflate shock but do I also deflate bladder same time? or just keep at 190psi as where it sits now?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> I'm pretty much done setting up fork with Shockwiz and I hooked it up to start setting up Topaz starting tomorrow.
> 
> One question I have is what to do with Bladder? If I follow calibration wizard, it will ask me to deflate shock but do I also deflate bladder same time? or just keep at 190psi as where it sits now?


Leave the bladder as is. Just know that if you make any adjustments to the bladder you will need to start a new session. But it won't cause you yo have to recalibrate the Shockwiz.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

IRBent said:


> Leave the bladder as is. Just know that if you make any adjustments to the bladder you will need to start a new session. But it won't cause you yo have to recalibrate the Shockwiz.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Thank you!


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## Imho4ep (Jul 20, 2007)

I respect your knowledge IRBent but are you saying its likely a brand new Topaz would have faulty valve issues from the get go with multiple owners? i have ensured the valve is tight with a valve tool, are you suggesting if i swap out the valve core from one i can find in a new tube it will solve this issue? i'm a bit skeptical of that.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Imho4ep said:


> I respect your knowledge IRBent but are you saying its likely a brand new Topaz would have faulty valve issues from the get go with multiple owners? i have ensured the valve is tight with a valve tool, are you suggesting if i swap out the valve core from one i can find in a new tube it will solve this issue? i'm a bit skeptical of that.


I didn't say it was your problem or your fix. I simply pointed out that you can buy new valve cores and replace faulty ones, after someone else suggested it could be the problem. For the record, you can buy the cores at Walmart or any auto parts store. As for my Topaz, I've not noticed a loss of pressure over months of use without changing the bladder pressure. In other words, I rode with my bladder pressure set at the same pressure without checking or adding more air, and my dampening and shock performance remained stable. I'd lean more towards you have a bladder issue. One small internal clip and you can pull the bladder out and change it. For maybe $30 you can buy a new valve kit and the bladder and change both out in less than an hour.

http://www.dvosuspension.com/product-category/spare-parts/topaz/


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## Fuel53 (Nov 1, 2006)

I ordered a Topaz from the LBS in early June, they said one month back order. Now, over a month later, they are saying it won’t come from DVO until possibly November. Does that sound right to anyone? I know I could buy from an online retailer but they gave me a discount and trying to support the LBS. 


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

I did a ride after work to see what Shockwiz says about Topaz. It's almost spot on. It did however recommended to make LSC softer.

I don't know of any way that I can adjust that. Maybe there is a way taking whole thing apart or send it to DVO.

Would it worth all that trouble? Would I even feel the difference?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Fuel53 said:


> I ordered a Topaz from the LBS in early June, they said one month back order. Now, over a month later, they are saying it won't come from DVO until possibly November. Does that sound right to anyone? I know I could buy from an online retailer but they gave me a discount and trying to support the LBS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Call DVO direct and ask them about availability for your specific size shock. If they tell you they can have it to you in a week, you may want to reconsider your loyalty.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

HaxEJxuK said:


> I did a ride after work to see what Shockwiz says about Topaz. It's almost spot on. It did however recommended to make LSC softer.
> 
> I don't know of any way that I can adjust that. Maybe there is a way taking whole thing apart or send it to DVO.
> 
> ...


Thinner oil could help. Otherwise a shim stack adjustment may be in need. But, don't take a single ride using a Shockwiz as the end all. Take multiple rides, same trail and exact same shock settings. Once you get close, you'll continually see results similar to the ones you posted.

The Shockwiz seems to tell most all of us our LSC & HSC needs to be softened. Grain of salt in my opinion. If you're as close as you were and can keep repeating those results, consider how it feels to you. No complaints mean no changes necessary.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Fuel53 said:


> I ordered a Topaz from the LBS in early June, they said one month back order. Now, over a month later, they are saying it won't come from DVO until possibly November. Does that sound right to anyone? I know I could buy from an online retailer but they gave me a discount and trying to support the LBS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I am gonna bet DVO is getting pounded with new orders, now the Giant Factory team is using all DVO. and maybe they are full out busy trying to keep up with demand


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

IRBent said:


> Call DVO direct and ask them about availability for your specific size shock. If they tell you they can have it to you in a week, you may want to reconsider your loyalty.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


ya, right LOL. 'oh don't have MY particular shock, when -I- want it ?'

reconsider loyalty ?

how about this instead: be patient like a normal human being

lol this place is funny


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## HaxEJxuK (Jul 28, 2011)

Yup, I won't base off of just one ride although it was 2 runs each on 3 different trails I do the most.

I'll do at least couple of more runs before I make changes based off of Shockwiz. Even though rebound says it's ok, I might slow down a click or two and see if Shockwiz still says ok. Topaz seems it pops more than Pike.


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

127.0.0.1 said:


> ya, right LOL. 'oh don't have MY particular shock, when -I- want it ?'
> 
> reconsider loyalty ?
> 
> ...


I think he was saying that if DVO can get him the shock in a week, when his LBS says it will take 4 months, he should reconsider his loyalty to the LBS.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Sid Duffman said:


> I think he was saying that if DVO can get him the shock in a week, when his LBS says it will take 4 months, he should reconsider his loyalty to the LBS.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Exactly. Not all LBS are unbiased. I do believe in supporting my LBS but I also believe making my own way. Give me the shock size or the bike model and such, I'll call and find it online. Unless it's indeed as posted above, DVO is getting behind due to their alliance with Giant.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Joel Fitzgerald (Feb 4, 2014)

Hey all, has anyone had experience going from a topaz to a fox X2? 

Just not loving the Topaz and while I've persisted for 2 years I'm thinking it might be time to try something else..

I'm really not into modifying shim stacks and the idea of the X2 with external adjustments is appealing. 

I just had the topaz serviced as was losing a lot of air and the coating was coming off the stanchion taking it back to a silver colour. 

So now it's probably a good time to move it on as almost everything was replaced internally. 

My complaints/dislikes are -
Blows through all is travel regardless of how many spacers I put in it.

Only way I can stop this is to run higher pressure in the can which then makes it harsh and not great over small fast bumps.

I find high speed impacts hmm how do you explain.. doesn't seem to absorb them and bike just gets a solid thud. Assuming too much HSC dampening? Though if I tried to have less dampening I think blowing through the travel would be worse?

Just feels like it's a lot of compromises?

Now with the shock having to have nearly every part replaced after 2 years of use including the stanchion and damper which cost $300 (I'd done a seal kit during that time as well) longevity isn't ideal. 

Hoping the fox X2 has enough adjustments to tune out these issues?

Cheers
Joel

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

IRBent said:


> Exactly. Not all LBS are unbiased. I do believe in supporting my LBS but I also believe making my own way. Give me the shock size or the bike model and such, I'll call and find it online. Unless it's indeed as posted above, DVO is getting behind due to their alliance with Giant.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


ok, got it


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

MiWi said:


> Thanks for sharing your setup.
> 
> Of course mine will change a lot in the first couple of rides.


Keep me posted on your setup. I'll be curious to see where you land with it.

I ended up removing the final positive spacer, I just couldn't get it to use the last 5mm or so of travel. We'll see how it goes from here.


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## Fuel53 (Nov 1, 2006)

IRBent said:


> Exactly. Not all LBS are unbiased. I do believe in supporting my LBS but I also believe making my own way. Give me the shock size or the bike model and such, I'll call and find it online. Unless it's indeed as posted above, DVO is getting behind due to their alliance with Giant.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


It's Specialized specific which I'm guessing does not have very high demand and possibly production numbers. I did try to contact DVO via Facebook messenger with no response - I will call them next week. I hadn't heard about production delays but it could make sense due to the (Topaz 2?) shocks on the giants. LBS is a local chain but I know these guys are legit (also a giant dealer). If this thing is at all like my old Marzocchi TST air, which I am betting it is, I will wait patiently.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Fuel53 said:


> It's Specialized specific which I'm guessing does not have very high demand and possibly production numbers. I did try to contact DVO via Facebook messenger with no response - I will call them next week. I hadn't heard about production delays but it could make sense due to the (Topaz 2?) shocks on the giants. LBS is a local chain but I know these guys are legit (also a giant dealer). If this thing is at all like my old Marzocchi TST air, which I am betting it is, I will wait patiently.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


In just a quick search in my cell, JensonUSA has the Enduro shock in stock, but not the Stumpy. But yeah, a Speshy specific Topaz has been more rare than others. I'd like to think your wait will be worth it. I'd also like to know what you think of it after you've had time to sort through all the tuning options and get it set up as good as you can. A friend of mine who rides a Stumpy was interested but to my knowledge, never purchased one.

https://www.jensonusa.com/Dvo-Topaz-Air-Specialized-Rear-Shock

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I ran one on the previous-gen Stumpy (mine was a 2017) with the propriety yoke. It was awesome. Transformed that bike. Bought mine through Dirt Merchant bikes in Denver. The owner seems locked in might DVO, so I bet he’ll have what you need. He’s active on Pinkbike, just search the buy/sell section under rear shocks.

Wish I could say the Topaz on the current-gen 2019 Stumpy was as dialed. Sadly it’s not.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Blatant said:


> Wish I could say the Topaz on the current-gen 2019 Stumpy was as dialed. Sadly it's not.


What's the problem with it?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Fuel53 said:


> I ordered a Topaz from the LBS in early June, they said one month back order. Now, over a month later, they are saying it won't come from DVO until possibly November. Does that sound right to anyone?


If there is one area DVO struggles, it is inventory. This is especially true for the odd sizes. I expect they are buried in OEM orders for 2019 Giant bikes and others...they said a bunch of brands are knocking on their door. Last weekend I spoke with a new brand that is local to DVO and uses a trunion Mount. They wand DVO stuff too.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Blatant said:


> Wish I could say the Topaz on the current-gen 2019 Stumpy was as dialed. Sadly it's not.


I haven't kept up with their progress. So I take it Specialized changed the linkage or something that would effect the leverage ratios and curve?

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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Background: 6'2", figure 195 pounds at the outside fully loaded to ride. This is in Phoenix, so fast, open, big gnar and lots of square edge rocks.

The previous gen Stumpy-specific Topaz was truly plug and play. I never even opened the can. 200 psi in the bladder, about 225 in the can gave me dead-on 30% sag. Rebound about 4-5 clicks back from fast and ride. Compression open. Super-deep suspension feel, excellent pedal support even open, totally transformed that bike into a mini-enduro beast.

New 2019 Stumpy did away with all the proprietary stuff and now runs an off-the-shelf 210x50 metric shock. So, I sprung for another Topaz.

As an aside, I've run quite a few DVO products, including a couple of Diamonds and a Jade, which was awesome.

The standard 210x50/55 (with travel limiting spacer) comes with no volume spacers installed, which is generally my preference. I like suspension to be pretty linear and prefer not to run volume reducers unless the suspension is bottoming too often. Most of the trails I ride, I expect to hit bottom at least once a run.

On this shock, I started at 190 in the bladder, open compression, 4 out from fast, but I had to run upward of 245 psi to even approached 30% sag. Even at that pressure, I was closer to 33%. With this setup, the bike climbed well, but almost sat up too high and downhill performance was unrefined, skittery and uncontrolled. I used about 42mm of the available 50mm of travel in this configuration.

Adding another "click" of rebound damping did not help. And, yes, I always equalize air chambers when pressurizing.

Talked to DVO and they suggested adding two to three bands in the positive side. I did two, this time is took 235 psi in the chamber to get me around 33% sag, still climbs well, still unimpressive descending performance, harsh and not tracking terrain properly.

Also found a noticeable "hitch" in the damping as the shock moves through the top of the stroke. I can re-create it by sitting on the bike with seat down, feet on ground and using my body weight to compress the shock. About 10mm down the stroke, you can feel a hitch or bump or interruption of the travel. You can't really hear it, but you can definitely feel it transmitting up through the seat.

No response back from DVO since that communication, although that was Friday, so I want to be fair and give them appropriate time to reply.

I did reinstall the stock DPS Evol shock using the same hardware to troubleshoot that the sensation I was feeling was in the shock itself and not in the hardware or pivots. The Fox is smooth as butter all the way through the stroke.

TL/DR: I feel like I'm using way too much air pressure to achieve sag and then the ride is harsh and doesn't track properly at speed. I also don't come close to full travel on trails where I should be using full travel. If I back off pressure to get a proper descending feel, my sag is crazy (~40%) and the bike obviously pedals poorly.

Sorry for the long post, but wanted to provided a total picture.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Blatant said:


> Background: 6'2", figure 195 pounds at the outside fully loaded to ride. This is in Phoenix, so fast, open, big gnar and lots of square edge rocks.
> 
> The previous gen Stumpy-specific Topaz was truly plug and play. I never even opened the can. 200 psi in the bladder, about 225 in the can gave me dead-on 30% sag. Rebound about 4-5 clicks back from fast and ride. Compression open. Super-deep suspension feel, excellent pedal support even open, totally transformed that bike into a mini-enduro beast.
> 
> ...


Nice update. By chance did you ever try any bands on the negative side? By doing so you can lessen the can pressure to help the skipping in fast skitty stuff. But it will also help support things on the top end so you won't be so deep into the travel initially.

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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I have not tried a negative spacer.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Fuel53 said:


> Now, over a month later, they are saying it won't come from DVO until possibly November. Does that sound right to anyone?


https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2363834/

He is a DVO employee and says he has some Topaz for Specialized that are brand new.


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## rnm410 (Mar 19, 2012)

What bleed tool for the Topaz?


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## itsajoke (Feb 21, 2010)

IRBent said:


> I'd also like to know what you think of it after you've had time to sort through all the tuning options and get it set up as good as you can.


@IRBent My experience has been positive so far, but I am far from finished with the tuning. 2018 Carbon Comp with Diamond fork and Topaz shock, I weigh 75kgs loaded to ride.

The compression setting lever rarely gets touched. It bobs a little when pedaling but not like an ejection seat. Initially I was ploughing through the travel easily so I started to put spacers in either/both sides. That caused noticeable changes and they were generally improvements. My pressure has stayed within vicinity of 11-12.7 bar. Given how easy it is to add or remove spacers I will tune before a ride if I am curious.

In short, I have not perfected it, but the options for improvement are great, so I would recommend it.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

itsajoke said:


> @IRBent My experience has been positive so far, but I am far from finished with the tuning. 2018 Carbon Comp with Diamond fork and Topaz shock, I weigh 75kgs loaded to ride.
> 
> The compression setting lever rarely gets touched. It bobs a little when pedaling but not like an ejection seat. Initially I was ploughing through the travel easily so I started to put spacers in either/both sides. That caused noticeable changes and they were generally improvements. My pressure has stayed within vicinity of 11-12.7 bar. Given how easy it is to add or remove spacers I will tune before a ride if I am curious.
> 
> In short, I have not perfected it, but the options for improvement are great, so I would recommend it.


One thing I've found by playing with the tuning bands, too many bands and lower can pressure can cause rebound speed to be too slow. On fast repetitive hits like in a rock garden or plowing over a lot of roots, the rear can occasionally feel like it's getting hung up, or someone grabbed a handful of your brakes.
I opted for low pressures with 3 positive bands and 2 negative bands at one point. It allowed me to run pressure close to 160-170psi. The shock was really active with the low pressure, just what I wanted. But I ended up pulling a band out of both positive and negative sides and bumping the pressure up in order to get rebound closer to what I wanted over the fast successive hits. I had already changed out the oil to use Red Line Like Water, the thinnest oil available.
I hope you have as much fun with your Topaz as I have mine. I love the fact that any half decent home mechanic can completely rebuild, tweak or tune it.

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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

rnm410 said:


> What bleed tool for the Topaz?


One of these syringes (with fitting)
https://www.jensonusa.com/Rockshox-Standard-Bleed-Kit


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## Fuel53 (Nov 1, 2006)

Doug said:


> If there is one area DVO struggles, it is inventory. This is especially true for the odd sizes. I expect they are buried in OEM orders for 2019 Giant bikes and others...they said a bunch of brands are knocking on their door. Last weekend I spoke with a new brand that is local to DVO and uses a trunion Mount. They wand DVO stuff too.


Confirmed with DVO on the phone that they will not have the Enduro specific Topaz in stock for some time- maybe October.

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

JensonUSA or another online dealer would get my funding then if they still have it in stock.


Fuel53 said:


> Confirmed with DVO on the phone that they will not have the Enduro specific Topaz in stock for some time- maybe October.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## c_trail_biker (Aug 12, 2010)

I just received a DVO Topaz model 1569104 which is supposed to be 200x51 (or 50). The two frame mounting wholes are rotated 90deg from each other instead of being in the same direction. It is the non air can side that is out of alighment 90 deg. Is this adjustable or did they send me the wrong shock.

edit, never mind, I was able to spin it around.


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

c_trail_biker said:


> I just received a DVO Topaz model 1569104 which is supposed to be 200x51 (or 50). The two frame mounting wholes are rotated 90deg from each other instead of being in the same direction. It is the non air can side that is out of alighment 90 deg. Is this adjustable or did they send me the wrong shock.
> 
> edit, never mind, I was able to spin it around.


Yup. The shock body turns


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Fuel53 said:


> I ordered a Topaz from the LBS in early June, they said one month back order. Now, over a month later, they are saying it won't come from DVO until possibly November. Does that sound right to anyone? I know I could buy from an online retailer but they gave me a discount and trying to support the LBS.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I got a Specialized Enduro specific Topaz and when I reached out to DVO on the phone, the gentleman on the phone was surprised that I was able to even get one. And this was back in March. You could use a bikeyoke if you don't want to change geo settings and get a regualr 200*57 shock. And your shop can probably get that in much qucker. https://www.bikeyoke.de/en/specialized-enduro-2017-2018-29-650b.html


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## Fuel53 (Nov 1, 2006)

The DVO guy I spoke to said Chainline might have one but probably no one else. Committed to the proprietary mount since I got the ‘18 yoke with the flip chip - bumping the Lyrik up to 170mm, plus I can use the old monarch as a backup. 


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Giant is now OEM DVO [not just the factory team...]
on 2019 Reign and Trance and uses the Topaz 2 T3 Trunnion shock
so...someday...getting some trickle down tech happening


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

127.0.0.1 said:


> Giant is now OEM DVO [not just the factory team...]
> on 2019 Reign and Trance and uses the Topaz 2 T3 Trunnion shock
> so...someday...getting some trickle down tech happening


I can't wait to see what the average end user has to say about their Topaz equipped Giant. Especially those who upgraded from a previous model Giant with one of the big two suspension setups. Help my ailing old mind. Did Giant opt for a DVO fork too, factory and all OEM bikes?

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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

IRBent said:


> I can't wait to see what the average end user has to say about their Topaz equipped Giant. Especially those who upgraded from a previous model Giant with one of the big two suspension setups. Help my ailing old mind. Did Giant opt for a DVO fork too, factory and all OEM bikes?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


DVO fork as well, but not all bikes, just some bikes. 
[the top of the line has DVO]

Giant still puts rockshox and fox on other bikes, [however if it has DVO it is all DVO]

example:

2019 Trance Advanced 0, DVO
2019 Trance advanced 1, FOX


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## hulster (May 28, 2017)

Would be interesting to know if the air chamber is bigger. It looks like. Any statement from DVO already? I would give it a try in case. Anyway - nothing on the website yet.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

127.0.0.1 said:


> DVO fork as well, but not all bikes, just some bikes.
> [the top of the line has DVO]
> 
> Giant still puts rockshox and fox on other bikes, [however if it has DVO it is all DVO]
> ...


Wow, so Giant is spec'ing the DVO suspension on their high end machine while letting Fox follow a step below. Sounds like they're either getting one sweet deal or they truly believe it's a better setup than Fox can offer.

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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

yup

so glad my first smash bike was equipped with Diamond/Topaz. I ain't missing anything.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

To bad the lower trance 2 doesn’t have them. That’s a great build for the price with carbon hoops.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

The topaz 2 will be on some of the bikes.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> The topaz 2 will be on some of the bikes.


Special tune for Meastro linkage. Mostly air spring adjustments.

Some other OEM will have the Topaz 2 with tunes for their kinematics.

Aftermarket will be coming later

https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/D...Onyx-Single-Crown-Fork-Sea-Otter-Classic,2322


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## Golf_Chick (Aug 22, 2013)

So I’ve been running my topaz since the end of May last year on my mk1 Bronson. Was initially happy with how it was performing but have noticed over time that it was blowing through its travel so I’ve been checking the pressure constantly. Rode at Ard Rock couple of weekends ago and by the time I got to stage 3 it had gone from 177 to 120ish. Carried shock pump (which was bloody annoying when weight is a sacrifice) so added the 177 again and by stage 7 it had again dropped enough to almost kick me off on a sizeable drop when it bottomed out. I’ve sat and added up every ride since I fitted it and I’ve done 960 miles so approx 120 hours, bearing in Mind this is my best bike so when conditions are bad I use my hardtail and road bike and turbo. Contacted DVO who say to service it with a particular seal kit which isn’t available until end of sept/early October. The shock really isn’t useable currently beyond one ride so I find this ridiculous. Support for DVO in the Uk is poor so no shops have stock, if I want the kit sooner I have to order from another country over the odds. I also think it’s completely out of order for the shock to already be performing so poorly, yes a 150 service recommendation but you expect perhaps it not to be as plush once it approaches that time line, not for it to be unusable. Wish I’d not taken the risk with such a poorly UK supported company now. After owning the bike for five years it’s now time for a new bike and you can bet your money I won’t be doing the same again.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Golf_Chick said:


> So I've been running my topaz since the end of May last year on my mk1 Bronson. Was initially happy with how it was performing but have noticed over time that it was blowing through its travel so I've been checking the pressure constantly. Rode at Ard Rock couple of weekends ago and by the time I got to stage 3 it had gone from 177 to 120ish. Carried shock pump (which was bloody annoying when weight is a sacrifice) so added the 177 again and by stage 7 it had again dropped enough to almost kick me off on a sizeable drop when it bottomed out. I've sat and added up every ride since I fitted it and I've done 960 miles so approx 120 hours, bearing in Mind this is my best bike so when conditions are bad I use my hardtail and road bike and turbo. Contacted DVO who say to service it with a particular seal kit which isn't available until end of sept/early October. The shock really isn't useable currently beyond one ride so I find this ridiculous. Support for DVO in the Uk is poor so no shops have stock, if I want the kit sooner I have to order from another country over the odds. I also think it's completely out of order for the shock to already be performing so poorly, yes a 150 service recommendation but you expect perhaps it not to be as plush once it approaches that time line, not for it to be unusable. Wish I'd not taken the risk with such a poorly UK supported company now. After owning the bike for five years it's now time for a new bike and you can bet your money I won't be doing the same again.


All it takes is one bad seal and any brand shock can fail even at low hours. A buddy had a Fox shock fail and due to the complexity, our local Fox trained bike mechanic still had to send it back to Fox. Their shop doesn't have the tools to fill the nitrogen side. Low stock on spare parts indeed needs to be improved by DVO.

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## Golf_Chick (Aug 22, 2013)

Yeah fair point, after owning one of the first cane creek inline shocks I guess my luck just sucks with shocks as that was piss poor too!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Golf_Chick said:


> Yeah fair point, after owning one of the first cane creek inline shocks I guess my luck just sucks with shocks as that was piss poor too!


Cane Creek inlines are notoriously junky or unreliable, requiring major factory rework often.

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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Golf_Chick said:


> Yeah fair point, after owning one of the first cane creek inline shocks I guess my luck just sucks with shocks as that was piss poor too!


Do you still have the Inline?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

IRBent said:


> Cane Creek inlines are notoriously junky or unreliable, requiring major factory rework often.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


That statement was true up until about a year and a half or two years ago. Reliability is now sorted on them.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Rick Draper said:


> That statement was true up until about a year and a half or two years ago. Reliability is now sorted on them.


That's nice to know. Sorry for misleading folks.

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## SpeshulEd (Oct 29, 2013)

I ended up getting my Topaz after my Fox shock had the same issue (leaking air) after about a month of riding. Shop had to send it in and it took about two weeks for Fox to handle the issue. Ended up ordering the Topaz since I could get it in a few days.

After about a year on the Topaz, I had to replace the seals as well. The turn around on those was about a week.

I feel your pain, but this stuff definitely happens no matter what shock you seem to run.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Golf_Chick said:


> So I've been running my topaz since the end of May last year on my mk1 Bronson. Was initially happy with how it was performing but have noticed over time that it was blowing through its travel so I've been checking the pressure constantly. Rode at Ard Rock couple of weekends ago and by the time I got to stage 3 it had gone from 177 to 120ish. Carried shock pump (which was bloody annoying when weight is a sacrifice) so added the 177 again and by stage 7 it had again dropped enough to almost kick me off on a sizeable drop when it bottomed out. I've sat and added up every ride since I fitted it and I've done 960 miles so approx 120 hours, bearing in Mind this is my best bike so when conditions are bad I use my hardtail and road bike and turbo. Contacted DVO who say to service it with a particular seal kit which isn't available until end of sept/early October. The shock really isn't useable currently beyond one ride so I find this ridiculous. Support for DVO in the Uk is poor so no shops have stock, if I want the kit sooner I have to order from another country over the odds. I also think it's completely out of order for the shock to already be performing so poorly, yes a 150 service recommendation but you expect perhaps it not to be as plush once it approaches that time line, not for it to be unusable. Wish I'd not taken the risk with such a poorly UK supported company now. After owning the bike for five years it's now time for a new bike and you can bet your money I won't be doing the same again.


Not good on the availability of spare parts - 6-8 weeks for a spare part? I would email a few DVO dealers/retailers around the world and see who has it in stock. At most you're paying a bit extra in postage and a week's wait to get to you. I would try NS Dynamics in Australia - they normally have spares.

I'm not sure if the issue you have is a blown seal or the damper needs bleeding (or both). Ideally you'd replace seals when you do a bleed, but...if you have to wait 6 weeks, maybe just bleed it and it may solve your issue.

The 150 hours in my humble opinion is not realistic, especially if most of those hours are gravity related. 10 years ago, service intervals on shocks were 50 hours for air spring and 100 for the damper. Seals have not changed dramatically in that time. What has changed is service interval numbers creeping up in service manuals, I suspect driven by keeping up with competitor brand claims. Sure, if you're really easy on your shock and doing a lot of flat riding, 150 is on the cards. If you're riding hard, halve those hours.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

I'm guessing by the pressures listed that he's referring to the bladder pressure? Riding a bike with -50psi in the positive chamber doesn't sound very doable. It sucks that there aren't spare parts in the UK but bringing a shock that's been used for 15mo to an Enduro race doesn't sound like a very good idea.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Tried to do damper rebuild for the first time and f***d up the damper shaft. What do you usually use for clamping the shaft in wises?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Robik said:


> Tried to do damper rebuild for the first time and f***d up the damper shaft. What do you usually use for clamping the shaft in wises?


Shaft clamps. I'll also wrap mine in a piece of old tube for extra protection and grip.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Robik said:


> Tried to do damper rebuild for the first time and f***d up the damper shaft. What do you usually use for clamping the shaft in wises?


The correct size shaft clamps and some isopropyl alcohol to make sure both the shaft and clamps are clean before clamping. Nothing else is needed.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Also, how did you take the rebound adjustment unit out? I unscrewed the bolt from the back, but the unit remained in. After my experience with damper shaft I decided to leave it alone.


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

I have a Hightower LT and have just been enjoing it so much that i havnt spent time tuning the shock. Reading through this it seems like i might be way off. Stock bands with like 205 PSI to get ~30% sag. I weigh 150 lb. 

Seems like everyone on here weighs quite a bit more than me but any suggestions for what to run? Seems like given its VPP 3 Positive 2 negative and maybe 175PSI main/170 bladder?

Thanks for any help. Also if anyone lighter is runnign a diamond what do you run it at?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Try 2 positive and 1 negative. Bladder @ 170 and main can at whatever psi gives you 30% sag.

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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

First of all, thank you. Second, wow that was the quickest response Ive ever gotten.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

djbutcher13 said:


> First of all, thank you. Second, wow that was the quickest response Ive ever gotten.


I'm riding a Bronson and have tried every tuning band config possible, testing based on experience, feel, and a Shockwiz. I've changed out my oil to Redline like water though. I also only run 25% sag I believe.

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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hey all, 

I recently picked up a topaz and some DVO hardware and bushings to go with it. Everything looks great besides the bushing pack missing the two small o-rings pictured on DVO's page. 

Has anyone else experienced this before, and if so, are the o-rings required for proper installation of the bushings? Additionally, are Fox's and DVO's bushings identical? Fox's stuff is much easier and faster to source, especially for bushings. 

Thanks for any help.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Let me just say this about bushing size. Your frame requires the bushing length to be a certain length. The shock eye requires it to be a certain diameter. And the bolt that bolts it to the frame has to be the right diameter. If your DVO bushing fits the frame, just like your previous Fox or Rockshox did, the only thing that can be different is materials and name. I used my original Fox bushing on the upper end of my Topaz but bought a bearing type bushing from these guys for the lower end to further reduce stiction.

https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/


Phoenix864 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I recently picked up a topaz and some DVO hardware and bushings to go with it. Everything looks great besides the bushing pack missing the two small o-rings pictured on DVO's page.
> 
> ...


Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## djbutcher13 (May 16, 2015)

man took it to highland today and it felt fantastic. Cant believe ive been riding it at such wrong settings this whole time.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

djbutcher13 said:


> man took it to highland today and it felt fantastic. Cant believe ive been riding it at such wrong settings this whole time.


There still may be room for improvement too. Make note of little sections of trail that are less than you'd prefer. If you ride that same section numerous times and get the same odd feel, then a minor adjustment might fix it too.

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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Anyone experienced torn bladder? My first one could be damaged by previous owner. I replaced it and made 
a full rebuild just for peace of mind. After one ride the bladder is torn at the bottom, like really tiny hole. DVO suggested sending it them for inspection and full rebuild (again) at $125 charge. New bladder is $9 shipped to me. Any suggestions?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Robik said:


> Anyone experienced torn bladder? My first one could be damaged by previous owner. I replaced it and made
> a full rebuild just for peace of mind. After one ride the bladder is torn at the bottom, like really tiny hole. DVO suggested sending it them for inspection and full rebuild (again) at $125 charge. New bladder is $9 shipped to me. Any suggestions?


As easy and quick as it is to replace the bladder, I'd change it out before sending the shock and paying $125.

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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Just don't want to tear those bladders on a weekly basis. Maybe someone ran into the same problem and knows the solution.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

I've torn one do to screwing up my first rebuild. You have to follow the bleed instructions 100% If there is any air left in the oil it will compress and let the bladder expand into the back of the compression stack holding nut.

Also, you aren't going past 200 psi in the bladder chamber are you?



Robik said:


> Just don't want to tear those bladders on a weekly basis. Maybe someone ran into the same problem and knows the solution.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I am just setting up my new Topaz. But I missed the part with cycling the shock when airing up, so it got stuck. So how do I go from here to empty so I can redo everything correct?


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

H-akka said:


> I am just setting up my new Topaz. But I missed the part with cycling the shock when airing up, so it got stuck. So how do I go from here to empty so I can redo everything correct?


just let air out and start over

pump to 50 psi, then cycle shock a few times
pump to 100 psi, cycle shock...repeat

....doing it in steps and cycling the shock will fill the neg chamber and it won't get that locked out situation when finally aired up to riding pressure


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

Ok thanks, I think I might have messed it up though. To get out of the stuck situation i had to let out air from both bladder and main chamber. So I added just 50 psi (only to main chamber not bladder) cycled it, and it made a sort of bubbly sound. Then I added 100 psi and and same sound. Then I filled the bladder to 180 psi. So did I somehow manage to get air into the oil? My other shocks has no sound other than a very subtle hissing from the oil. I guess I could somehow bleed it but damn, it's brand new.
EDIT: I pumped it up to 190 and I can't hear it anymore so hopefully it was nothing. Strange though. My Rock Shox are "soundless" no matter pressure.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

H-akka said:


> Ok thanks, I think I might have messed it up though. To get out of the stuck situation i had to let out air from both bladder and main chamber. So I added just 50 psi (only to main chamber not bladder) cycled it, and it made a sort of bubbly sound. Then I added 100 psi and and same sound. Then I filled the bladder to 180 psi. So did I somehow manage to get air into the oil? My other shocks has no sound other than a very subtle hissing from the oil. I guess I could somehow bleed it but damn, it's brand new.
> EDIT: I pumped it up to 190 and I can't hear it anymore so hopefully it was nothing. Strange though. My Rock Shox are "soundless" no matter pressure.


What you heard was probably oil going into the bladder. WIth no pressure in the bladder when you compress the shock the bladder will compress a great deal. that could be enough for oil to seep in. The seal relies on the high pressure to hold it all in place.

IF that happened, what does this mean? oil in the bladder is no big deal. It would be a bit like running a few PSI higher if you got a few mL in there. The bigger issue would be any air that could have gone from the bladder to the damper.

If it were me I would bleed it. Kind of a pain on a new shock, but will be best long term and its not a big deal if you have ever worked on suspension.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Nevermind...


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

Doug said:


> If it were me I would bleed it. Kind of a pain on a new shock, but will be best long term and its not a big deal if you have ever worked on suspension.


I'll probably do that. Just need to buy suspension fluid. Haven't done it before, but I guess it's not much different to bleeding brakes. Mixing oils can't be a big problem?


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

You would need 2.5WT suspension oil. Red line is most common aftermarket oil. I went with Silkolene without issues. Just don't use Rock Show/Sram Oil.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I just removed the travel reducer from the air can and then the reservoir started leaking oil where the Schreader valve is. I don't know what the hell could cause that.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

H-akka said:


> I'll probably do that. Just need to buy suspension fluid. Haven't done it before, but I guess it's not much different to bleeding brakes. Mixing oils can't be a big problem?


I was thinking of Red Line LikeWater. Seems like good stuff. Not sure if it is 2.5w or less.


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

It's the lightest after extra light, which probably corresponds to 2.5 weight.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Robik said:


> It's the lightest after extra light, which probably corresponds to 2.5 weight.


Redline Like water is the lightest fluid they offer. Redline extralight is heavier.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hey all,

I recently installed my Topaz and aired it up and cycled it to check if everything had installed alright. Everything seemed fine at first, but I soon noticed that upon disconnecting and reattaching my pump to the bladder I was loosing about 50psi. 

If the pump is displaying correctly, I cycled the shock with about 125-150psi in the bladder. Is this something to be concerned about? Additionally, is there a way to decrease the amount of pressure I'm loosing upon disconnecting the pump? 

Thanks for any advice.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Phoenix864 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I recently installed my Topaz and aired it up and cycled it to check if everything had installed alright. Everything seemed fine at first, but I soon noticed that upon disconnecting and reattaching my pump to the bladder I was loosing about 50psi.
> 
> ...


Most likely it's not that you're losing a lot of pressure upon disconnecting your pump. It's the other way around, you're bladder air pressure, which is a thumb tip size bladder, is filling your pump hose when connecting the pump. Say you have 180psi in the bladder and you remove your hose. Reconnect the hose and make note of the pressure drop. Fill the bladder back to 180 and repeat. Eventually you'll notice each time you reconnect the hose the bladder pressure will drop to about the same reading. That's because the pump hose takes a certain amount of air from the bladder. Only worry about bladder air pressure loss when your dampening goes to pot. Also only check it when it starts feeling odd.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## mjw (Feb 26, 2007)

Phoenix864 said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I recently installed my Topaz and aired it up and cycled it to check if everything had installed alright. Everything seemed fine at first, but I soon noticed that upon disconnecting and reattaching my pump to the bladder I was loosing about 50psi.
> 
> ...


You don't lose on disconnection, you lose when you reconnect the hose. The hose and shock have to be pressurized to take the reading, which essentially is done by taking pressure out of the bladder when you reconnect.

The air you hear when disconnecting is air that was in the hose only. The valve is disconnected and pressure in the bladder and hose are isolated from one another before you hear air escape - again that is air from the hose alone.

Just inflate and disconnect. No need to over inflate. Ecuase you aren't losing anything.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Thanks for the info, I guess the small volume of the bladder combined with the need to fill the hose causes the rather large PSI drop. I've never seen a drop so large, so I just was wondering what was up. 

Additionally, what are people in the 160-170lb range using for settings? It seems DVO's setup page is rather spare in terms of setting a base tune.

Thanks.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

Phoenix864 said:


> Thanks for the info, I guess the small volume of the bladder combined with the need to fill the hose causes the rather large PSI drop. I've never seen a drop so large, so I just was wondering what was up.
> 
> Additionally, what are people in the 160-170lb range using for settings? It seems DVO's setup page is rather spare in terms of setting a base tune.
> 
> Thanks.


This has been posted here before, and works. But for me it works better with my old pump than with the DVO pump:


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Phoenix864 said:


> Thanks for the info, I guess the small volume of the bladder combined with the need to fill the hose causes the rather large PSI drop. I've never seen a drop so large, so I just was wondering what was up.
> 
> Additionally, what are people in the 160-170lb range using for settings? It seems DVO's setup page is rather spare in terms of setting a base tune.
> 
> Thanks.


Base tunes vary depending rear suspension design. What bike are you riding, how much do you weigh with all your riding gear on, and what type of trails do you typically ride?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

IRBent said:


> Base tunes vary depending rear suspension design. What bike are you riding, how much do you weigh with all your riding gear on, and what type of trails do you typically ride?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I weigh in the mid 160s geared, and am riding a Canfield Riot on rather rather rooty, rocky, and wet east coast trails with the occasional 3ft or so jump.


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## zerolight (Sep 8, 2010)

sternomac said:


> So a few people plus you mentioned they are 2+, 1- with the bands on VPP bikes. Made the switch yesterday and ended up shaving off some PSI as well to hit the 30% sag.
> 
> Bike tracked much better through fast rough stuff. Just felt even smoother than before.
> 
> ...


I think I might try the same setup, see how it feels. I've only ever run 2+ since fitting. Feels great but I never use all my travel - granted I'm not hitting big drops or getting air, just ploughing through stuff.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

After a test ride earlier today I've started dialing in my Topaz. So far I've found that 190psi in the air can, 190psi in the bladder, and about 6 clicks of rebound feels like a good starting point for my 165lb frame. One thing I've been looking to try is increasing and decreasing the bladder pressure, as I have heard wildly different options on how it effects dampening. 

Would it be alright if the bladder goes slightly over 200psi when airing it up, before using the bleed valve to get down to pressure? Since I don't know exactly how many psi my pump will fill per stroke, I'm worried about going slightly over the 200psi max when trying to fill to 200psi. Sorry if this question is rather paranoid, I just really want to avoid creating any issues with the shock.

I was also wondering what people are doing for rebound. I found DVO's page on it to be a bit confusing. If I understand what DVO is saying, you should start from full counterclockwise (faster?) and add clicks from there (going slower)? Their statements of: 

"Higher air pressure requires more rebound damping and lower air pressure will require less rebound damping so please adjust accordingly.

SLOWER = MORE REBOUND DAMPING 

FASTER = LESS REBOUND DAMPING

seems rather backwards to me. 

Thanks for the help.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Phoenix864 said:


> After a test ride earlier today I've started dialing in my Topaz. So far I've found that 190psi in the air can, 190psi in the bladder, and about 6 clicks of rebound feels like a good starting point for my 165lb frame. One thing I've been looking to try is increasing and decreasing the bladder pressure, as I have heard wildly different options on how it effects dampening.
> 
> Would it be alright if the bladder goes slightly over 200psi when airing it up, before using the bleed valve to get down to pressure? Since I don't know exactly how many psi my pump will fill per stroke, I'm worried about going slightly over the 200psi max when trying to fill to 200psi. Sorry if this question is rather paranoid, I just really want to avoid creating any issues with the shock.
> 
> ...


The bladder is a balloon in the oil and when you compress the shock it compresses the bladder. If the bladder is harder it resists it more. Higher pressure means that there is an increase in compression damping. (theoretically it would help the shock extend too but in practice I don't know if it would actually have an impact on your rebound)

It's easier to tell when a knob is turned all the way in then all the way out which is why clicks are often measured from full in. That doesn't mean that you want to start tuning with the knob closed though. Closing the rebound knob increases rebound damping. And when you run higher pressures you will need more rebound damping. As far as finding the sweet spot it's generally the fastest that you can run while retaining traction.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

crimedog said:


> The bladder is a balloon in the oil and when you compress the shock it compresses the bladder. If the bladder is harder it resists it more. Higher pressure means that there is an increase in compression damping. (theoretically it would help the shock extend too but in practice I don't know if it would actually have an impact on your rebound)
> 
> It's easier to tell when a knob is turned all the way in then all the way out which is why clicks are often measured from full in. That doesn't mean that you want to start tuning with the knob closed though. Closing the rebound knob increases rebound damping. And when you run higher pressures you will need more rebound damping. As far as finding the sweet spot it's generally the fastest that you can run while retaining traction.


Thanks for the explanation of the bladder. I would assume based on your explanation it would be alright to add slightly more then 200psi and then air down to 200, since it sounds like the most pressure is exerted on the bladder while riding.

For rebound, my understanding is that adding rebound dampening slows the rebound, which would be better for lighter riders (exactly opposite to what DVO says) but it's very possible I am mistaken. I will definitely be continuing to experiment with rebound to find what works best for me.

Thanks for the help.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Phoenix864 said:


> Thanks for the explanation of the bladder. I would assume based on your explanation it would be alright to add slightly more then 200psi and then air down to 200, since it sounds like the most pressure is exerted on the bladder while riding.
> 
> For rebound, my understanding is that adding rebound dampening slows the rebound, which would be better for lighter riders (exactly opposite to what DVO says) but it's very possible I am mistaken. I will definitely be continuing to experiment with rebound to find what works best for me.
> 
> Thanks for the help.


Weighing in at 165, my guess is high bladder pressure @ 200psi will cause so much damping that your shock will never use full travel unless you're taking huge drops and riding like a pro.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

IRBent said:


> Weighing in at 165, my guess is high bladder pressure @ 200psi will cause so much damping that your shock will never use full travel unless you're taking huge drops and riding like a pro.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Just wanted to try and see what each increment felt like (180-190-200). I started with 190 in the bladder and 190 in the can and was using full travel on just about the biggest jumps I hit (4ft or so). I was thinking to try 200 in the bladder and 180ish in the can and see how that felt.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Sorry I forget about the pressure question. You will be fine going slightly over. Assuming you are using a shock pump and not a track pump..

I would use the bladder for fine tuning only and it's going to be tied closely to your weight and riding style. Don't add bladder and take away air can pressure. 10psi out if the air can is going to lead to you riding too deep in the travel. If you want to increase bottom out resistance add a band to the positive air chamber.

If rebound seems counter intuitive then you aren't picturing it quite right. Rebound damping is the resistance to extension of a compressed shock. If you have more air pressure then there is more force extending the shock therefore you need more damping to slow it down. Too much feels ok until you compress it multiple times in a row and it gets packed down and as a result feels harsh and/or bottoms out.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

crimedog said:


> Sorry I forget about the pressure question. You will be fine going slightly over. Assuming you are using a shock pump and not a track pump..
> 
> I would use the bladder for fine tuning only and it's going to be tied closely to your weight and riding style. Don't add bladder and take away air can pressure. 10psi out if the air can is going to lead to you riding too deep in the travel. If you want to increase bottom out resistance add a band to the positive air chamber.
> 
> If rebound seems counter intuitive then you aren't picturing it quite right. Rebound damping is the resistance to extension of a compressed shock. If you have more air pressure then there is more force extending the shock therefore you need more damping to slow it down. Too much feels ok until you compress it multiple times in a row and it gets packed down and as a result feels harsh and/or bottoms out.


Thanks for the explanation on rebound dampening, that clears things up. I'll definitely try a band in the positive, maybe coupled with 180 in the bladder and a bit more PSI in the can to see if it gets me better small bump performance.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Phoenix864 said:


> Thanks for the explanation on rebound dampening, that clears things up. I'll definitely try a band in the positive, maybe coupled with 180 in the bladder and a bit more PSI in the can to see if it gets me better small bump performance.


Do one adjustment at a time or else you won't know what made things better/worse.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

I'm about to get DVO for 2017 Jeffsy CF1 29

I'm 220 ready to ride. Can someone recommend base settings for me? 
Thanks


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

scoobiemario said:


> I'm about to get DVO for 2017 Jeffsy CF1 29
> 
> I'm 220 ready to ride. Can someone recommend base settings for me?
> Thanks


DVO website says it best

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/setup/diamond/base-tune/


RIDER WEIGHTAIR PRESSUREOTTREBOUNDHSCLSC120-139lbs | 54-63kg90-100psi0-2 rotations10-14 clicks0-1 clicks1-2 clicks140-159lbs | 64-72kg100-110psi2-4 rotations10-14 clicks0-2 clicks1-2 clicks160-179lbs | 73-81kg110-125psi3-7 rotations8-12 clicks2-3 clicks1-2 clicks180-199lbs | 82-90kg125-130psi6-8 rotations8-12 clicks2-4 clicks1-2 clicks200-219lbs | 91-100kg130-135psi7-9 rotations6-10 clicks3-5 clicks1-2 clicks220-239lbs | 100-108kg135-140psi8-10 rotations6-10 clicks4-6 clicks1-2 clicks240+lbs | 109+kg140-170psi11-14 rotations6-10 clicks5-7 clicks1-2 clicks


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

This is the Topaz thread localhost



scoobiemario said:


> I'm about to get DVO for 2017 Jeffsy CF1 29
> 
> I'm 220 ready to ride. Can someone recommend base settings for me?
> Thanks


You'll have to find your own pressure and rebound setting, what you want is a starting place for volume reducing bands. I don't have any advice but if you give DVO a call they will help you out.


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

Thanks guys. I will just give them a call, since on the website they only say what pressure to use in the main air chamber. Nothing about the bladder etc. 

However, I'm putting Topaz on hold... Need to sort out snapping spokes first... 4th one this summer....


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## jnashed (Sep 12, 2016)

just put o n a Topaz for my SC Hightower. Any tricks on safely popping off the O-ring to place spacers. It is not coming off as easy as I hoped (or saw in the DVO video) . Wondering if there is a safe way without damaging the ring.

Also I am 165lb with kit so I am starting at 190 psi and 170 or so in the bladder to start and will get a first take tonight. Sag seems Ok but will see how that feels


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

jnashed said:


> just put o n a Topaz for my SC Hightower. Any tricks on safely popping off the O-ring to place spacers. It is not coming off as easy as I hoped (or saw in the DVO video) . Wondering if there is a safe way without damaging the ring.
> 
> Also I am 165lb with kit so I am starting at 190 psi and 170 or so in the bladder to start and will get a first take tonight. Sag seems Ok but will see how that feels


Pinch it between your thumb and index finger. You'll be able to get it to pull away from the air can body and then you can slip it down toward the shaft.

Checkout the hightower thread and this thread for my settings on my hightower at 180lbs geared and ready to ride.


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## jnashed (Sep 12, 2016)

thanks got it. BTW anyone with a Santa Cruz HT have trouble installing this with the recommended hardware. Went on easy in the front with the bushings and O-rings but the back would not fit into the link with the bushings. Able to place one bushing on one side and one o-ring but unable to get both on. diameter of shock and hardware equal front and but back connection to linkage is narrower slightly. Should be same so I contacted SC and asked on the HT forum. just curious....


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

jnashed said:


> thanks got it. BTW anyone with a Santa Cruz HT have trouble installing this with the recommended hardware. Went on easy in the front with the bushings and O-rings but the back would not fit into the link with the bushings. Able to place one bushing on one side and one o-ring but unable to get both on. diameter of shock and hardware equal front and but back connection to linkage is narrower slightly. Should be same so I contacted SC and asked on the HT forum. just curious....


The stanchion can be turned independently from the shock body. Just grab the bottom eyelet and twist it so that it's straight.


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## jnashed (Sep 12, 2016)

got it on properly. Had to really push the seating of the bushings more than I thought. On and starting to tune it


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

Anyone experienced oily stancion after rebuild? It's not leaking, but after each ride it gets accumulated around green o-ring.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Robik said:


> Anyone experienced oily stancion after rebuild? It's not leaking, but after each ride it gets accumulated around green o-ring.


Did you liberally apply slick honey or Sram butter to all your seals and everything inside when you rebuild it? So often is that stuff you actually see not the oil.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Robik (Sep 26, 2017)

IRBent said:


> Did you liberally apply slick honey or Sram butter to all your seals and everything inside when you rebuild it? So often is that stuff you actually see not the oil.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yeah, I was generous about lubing all the seals with Sram butter. It looks thicker than oil, specially when mixed with dust. 
So, you think, it will go away with time?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Robik said:


> Yeah, I was generous about lubing all the seals with Sram butter. It looks thicker than oil, specially when mixed with dust.
> So, you think, it will go away with time?


Take SRAM butter or it's originator, Slickoleum, and let either get a bit warm and I'm sure they'll melt or liquefy to some extent. I suspect that's what you're seeing and that it will go away just in time for the next service interval. So long as your damping doesn't go to pot, proof you may be leaking oil, I'd say not to worry about it.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

My Topaz has been great so far. I’ve started to notice when in the medium setting the switch will drop into the open setting if the trail gets a little rocky and the bike starts to take on some hits. Has anyone experienced this? I’ve checked the tightness of the switch and the hex nut is tight. 


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

Just replaced my inline with a Topaz on my Banshee Prime. Love how plush it is for going downhill but it makes pedaling uphill harder. The rear tends to move so much more with each pedal stroke. I'm 220 geared up. Sag is set at 25-30%. I can bottom out on 2-3 foot drops. Should I just load up the positive side with rings or do I need to add one to the neg side? Any KS-link owners out their care to share their setup?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

DirtDiggler said:


> Just replaced my inline with a Topaz on my Banshee Prime. Love how plush it is for going downhill but it makes pedaling uphill harder. The rear tends to move so much more with each pedal stroke. I'm 220 geared up. Sag is set at 25-30%. I can bottom out on 2-3 foot drops. Should I just load up the positive side with rings or do I need to add one to the neg side? Any KS-link owners out their care to share their setup?


At your weight I'd try 2 POS, 1 neg. The negative bands do a lot for me to manage mid stroke and pedaling forces. Usually I wouldnt suggest making two changes at once, but it sounds like you're a good bit off optimum setup being at 25% sag, blowing through travel and still not great pedaling performance.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

Hi, i run Topaz for a few months now, i'm quite happy but...

1. Is it normal that when i set rebound to fully open (-), shock still returns not so fast? (i can easily see that there is still some rebound damping).
2. is it possible to strengthen damping in climbing position? my suspension still bobs and i'd like to calm it.

i have 180psi in a main chamber, 180psi in a bladder. no bands.
(my weight is about 80kg with gear), 216/63, 160mm travel


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Bands in the negative chamber reduce the effect of the negative air spring so that will help you both out with pedal bob. If you're bottoming out add bands to the positive side for a more progressive air spring.

Rebound adjustment is just a range of low speed rebound, there is a fixed amount of high speed rebound with the main valve to contend with also. Razorjack, since you're only running 180psi I imagine that you are fairly light? If so then ideally you would want a shim taken out of the stack. Just something to keep in mind for the next time you get it serviced.


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> At your weight I'd try 2 POS, 1 neg. The negative bands do a lot for me to manage mid stroke and pedaling forces. Usually I wouldnt suggest making two changes at once, but it sounds like you're a good bit off optimum setup being at 25% sag, blowing through travel and still not great pedaling performance.


Thanks for your feedback. So, I just rode 2 POS, 1 NEG and then tried 3 POS 0 NEG. Still had too much movement pedaling uphill both ways but 2 POS/1 NEG felt slightly more stable. Wondering if I should try 1 POS and 2 NEG? Will rings in the NEG slow down the movement?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

DirtDiggler said:


> Thanks for your feedback. So, I just rode 2 POS, 1 NEG and then tried 3 POS 0 NEG. Still had too much movement pedaling uphill both ways but 2 POS/1 NEG felt slightly more stable. Wondering if I should try 1 POS and 2 NEG? Will rings in the NEG slow down the movement?


Yeah it should. The way I do it is that I use the positive chamber bands to control the amount, and character of bottom out. I keep sag around what is optimum for my frame (vpp 28-32%). Then I use negative chamber bands to try and control beginning and mid stroke.

Generally, I try and avoid using the compression settings and the pressure in the bladder chamber to handle bottom out and I try and keep that to controlling damping characteristics only. FWIW, I keep my shock mostly in the medium setting because open is too open on my vpp frame for my tastes, just based on my desired mid stroke support.

I'd try 1 pos, 2 neg and maybe potentially add 5psi to your bladder pressure after the negative band adjustment if you need. Don't be afraid of running any combo of bands, they have a profound effect. You can also potentially run a different shim stack for more LSC, DVO can help you with that, but i'd do that as a last resort.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

crimedog said:


> Bands in the negative chamber reduce the effect of the negative air spring so that will help you both out with pedal bob. If you're bottoming out add bands to the positive side for a more progressive air spring.
> 
> Rebound adjustment is just a range of low speed rebound, there is a fixed amount of high speed rebound with the main valve to contend with also. Razorjack, since you're only running 180psi I imagine that you are fairly light? If so then ideally you would want a shim taken out of the stack. Just something to keep in mind for the next time you get it serviced.


yep, i know that the knob is 'low speed rebound damping', but anyway, i feel i'd like to test faster (closer to my front setting), i'm not so light, as i mentioned, i weight about 80kg with gear.

is it possible to change shims for a climb switch too ? to increase compression damping for climb position, but not to change damping in open mode ?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

razorjack said:


> is it possible to change shims for a climb switch too ? to increase compression damping for climb position, but not to change damping in open mode ?


It is not. Changing the shim stack on the compression loader may have an effect on the steps between compression settings, but that will be minor at best and could be consider accidental or un-intended.

It is very strange that you are running with rebound fully open at 80kg. I am 81kg and run about 4-5 clicks of rebound damping with 215psi in the main air can on my hightower.

What frame is this on? I could see maybe on an incredibly progressive frame (yt jeffsy) that maybe you could need such little pressure and no bands. But even on that frame I can't believe you wouldn't be blowing through your travel quickly with such little air pressure and no air can reducers. Furthermore, with your comments on how rebound seems too fast, I would have expected to hear you had a ton of positive can reducers in. That dynamic and progressive spring rate from a significant amount of positive air can reducers can make high speed rebound feel off as the air spring has a ton of force returning from deep events.

If these genuinely are your settings then I'd consider changing the rebound shim stack. Keep in mind you will expeience a slight change in compression damping from a different rebound tune.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Did my first oil replacement on the Topaz after 6 months. Used WPL Shockboost 2.5wt, and it's like new again, good stuff. Nice that you can cook with it too


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

that's from this morning 



maybe not the best video (not enough light to see that's it returns slow), returns slower than my legs! (with 0 clicks), in a middle of the film, i set 4 clicks of rebound, you can easily see that it makes it veeery sluggish ....

frame is NS Bikes Snabb E (navy blue on the pic)








SAG is set to about ~18mm (about 28%), i don't bottom out too often, when i ride aggressively down, no jumps, i would use 60-61mm of travel (from 63mm).
when i jump i'd use similar amount (i prefer nice landings  )

__
http://instagr.am/p/BoXJ8MDhz2Q/
probably i could use some bands in + chamber anyway (didn't have a time to clean everything and experiment)

but anyway, even if i set 200psi, still i could probably see that there is a lot of rebound damping even with 0 clicks !
(maybe i weight a bit less, like 77kg with gear)


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> Yeah it should. The way I do it is that I use the positive chamber bands to control the amount, and character of bottom out. I keep sag around what is optimum for my frame (vpp 28-32%). Then I use negative chamber bands to try and control beginning and mid stroke.
> 
> Generally, I try and avoid using the compression settings and the pressure in the bladder chamber to handle bottom out and I try and keep that to controlling damping characteristics only. FWIW, I keep my shock mostly in the medium setting because open is too open on my vpp frame for my tastes, just based on my desired mid stroke support.
> 
> I'd try 1 pos, 2 neg and maybe potentially add 5psi to your bladder pressure after the negative band adjustment if you need. Don't be afraid of running any combo of bands, they have a profound effect. You can also potentially run a different shim stack for more LSC, DVO can help you with that, but i'd do that as a last resort.


Thanks for your feedback! I will follow this process today and give it another try. I really want to make this shock work...feels so good going down.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

razorjack said:


> that's from this morning
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Razor, first off, I'm jealous. That trail looks too fun. I weigh closer to 80-82kg with gear. One if the things I did to speed things up, rather than doing a shim stack adjustment I changed the oil out to Red Line Like Water. This allows me to lower initial pressure and add a positive band or two to help bottom out protection. It also allowed me to add an extra click or 2 to the rebound side. Thinner oil moves through the shims and ports faster. Lower pressure makes for a softer top end and also doesn't wear and tear on your seals as much. I'm riding an '05 Bronson, 2+ & 1- bands in the main can. Can pressure @ 180psi with 174psi in the bladder. Only one minor issue, occasionally the rear feels like it packs or the rebound is still too slow.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

yep. i know how thick/thin oil works  however i won't be changing to thinner, as i would like to have stronger compression damping in climb position too 
i bought this damper second hand, maybe it was reshimmed before? anyway, next time i send it for a full service, i'll ask for reshimming (TFTuned)
i was just curious if it's normal...

also, maybe this weekend, i'll find some time and put 1 band in + chamber (bottom out prevention), and 1-2 in negative ? for better support (less wallow) in climb mode.
my suspension is quite supple, no rotation on lower bushing and bearings on upper mount.
https://i.imgur.com/0eSJMZn.jpg


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

razorjack said:


> yep. i know how thick/thin oil works  however i won't be changing to thinner, as i would like to have stronger compression damping in climb position too
> i bought this damper second hand, maybe it was reshimmed before? anyway, next time i send it for a full service, i'll ask for reshimming (TFTuned)
> i was just curious if it's normal...
> 
> ...


One other thing I did to help movement, I installed a RWC shock bearing kit on the lower bushing end. Indeed negative bands will offer more support on the top end but they can reduce that supple feel over the small stuff too.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

oh, i said my suspension is supple enough !  i don't install bearings at the bottom, because it doesn't move at all. i'll test bands and we'll see


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Hangtime said:


> My Topaz has been great so far. I've started to notice when in the medium setting the switch will drop into the open setting if the trail gets a little rocky and the bike starts to take on some hits. Has anyone experienced this? I've checked the tightness of the switch and the hex nut is tight.


Mine has recently gone the other way, from kind of floppy to feeling like there's a firm detent in each position. 
Perhaps just due to a change in riding style, as I've been standing and using a higher gear on certain obstacles(realized I was not clearing some things with the geared FS bike as easily as I used to on a SS HT), but suddenly there also seems to be a more noticeable difference in firmness/support between the trail and open modes than before.
Those things are actually what prompted me to catch up on this thread.
Not complaining, as they're both positives to me, but it certainly seems strange that they should coincide, or even occur at all, after nearly a year of moderate use(shock has not been serviced yet). I don't expect continued use to cause things to firm up-quite the opposite!


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## DirtDiggler (Jun 19, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> Yeah it should. The way I do it is that I use the positive chamber bands to control the amount, and character of bottom out. I keep sag around what is optimum for my frame (vpp 28-32%). Then I use negative chamber bands to try and control beginning and mid stroke.
> 
> Generally, I try and avoid using the compression settings and the pressure in the bladder chamber to handle bottom out and I try and keep that to controlling damping characteristics only. FWIW, I keep my shock mostly in the medium setting because open is too open on my vpp frame for my tastes, just based on my desired mid stroke support.
> 
> I'd try 1 pos, 2 neg and maybe potentially add 5psi to your bladder pressure after the negative band adjustment if you need. Don't be afraid of running any combo of bands, they have a profound effect. You can also potentially run a different shim stack for more LSC, DVO can help you with that, but i'd do that as a last resort.


Just a follow up: 1 pos 2 neg and 200psi in the bladder made this shock completely come alive for my Banshee Prime. I can now pedal out of the saddle and the bike doesn't bob up and down anymore. I was worried bands in the negative would make it ride harsh but I didn't find this an issue at all. It's also much more playful now. The biggest change was going from 180 to 200 in the bladder which created much more support throughout the entire range. Thanks for helping me dial this thing in. Feels excellent!


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Just purchased a topaz and trying to figure out where to start with spacers for a 2015 Intense spider 275. Do most people run no spacers and add to feel?


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## ttchad (Jun 28, 2007)

Go ahead & add 200 PSI in the bladder. 
Set your sag. 
Set rebound by riding off a curb & dialing it in. 
Go for a ride & add spacers until you no longer bottom out.


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## Supah Dave (Jan 6, 2017)

email DVO tech, they can give you a starting point based off your bike/weight/etc.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

Supah Dave said:


> email DVO tech, they can give you a starting point based off your bike/weight/etc.


I emailed them and they asked my current settings and then they could advise. I havent installed it yet so couldnt give them that, will put it on tonight.


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

Just call them. 
I called before I even bought mine. I got real hooman on the phone in 10 sec. that itself is amazing. 
He gave me starting settings. Said to start with no bands. Than maybe add one if needed. I started with one band thinking it will be fine like my monarch. And I should have listened to him from the get go. Since I ended up removing that band anyways. After some riding I dropped main and bladder pressure by 10 psi. Speed up rebound by one more click. And I’m loving it
That’s how close he got it at the first time. 

Im 220-225 lbs ready to ride
2017 Jeffsy 29
230 psi, 190 bladder. 4 clicks rebound from fully closed. Sometimes I go to three.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

razorjack said:


> is it possible to change shims for a climb switch too ? to increase compression damping for climb position, but not to change damping in open mode ?





minimusprime said:


> It is not. Changing the shim stack on the compression loader may have an effect on the steps between compression settings, but that will be minor at best and could be consider accidental or un-intended.


I spoke to Ronnie about this and other things. I asked how to get more of a climbing platform using the switch. He said to put two more shims (6mm ID, 15mm OD, 0.2mm thick) on the compression loader. That would stiffen it up. I asked if it would also increase damping in the Open setting. He said no, the "open" is very open.

He also gave a few other tips:
-to see if you have air in your oil, let the air out of the main can, then the reservoir. Remove the reservoir valve core. Slide a 3.5mm hex in (don't jam it in or you can damage the bladder!) and measure how far in it goes. It should be about 35mm. If it is less that could mean there is air in the system. 
-When bleeding the system, put the bladder back before oil. Then with a syringe (Rock Shot bleed kit is what he uses) attached with some more oil, compress the shock very very slowly. More oil will fill the syringe. Let is sit compressed for 2 minutes. Extend, wait a minute. Compress, wait a minute. Extend...wait. 
-To get an even better bleed, replace the bleed screw (important!) pressurize the bladder and let that sit for a few minutes. Then repeat the slow compression/extension process. Takes longer but worth it.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> I spoke to Ronnie about this and other things. I asked how to get more of a climbing platform using the switch. He said to put two more shims (6mm ID, 15mm OD, 0.2mm thick) on the compression loader. That would stiffen it up. I asked if it would also increase damping in the Open setting. He said no, the "open" is very open.
> 
> He also gave a few other tips:
> -to see if you have air in your oil, let the air out of the main can, then the reservoir. Remove the reservoir valve core. Slide a 3.5mm hex in (don't jam it in or you can damage the bladder!) and measure how far in it goes. It should be about 35mm. If it is less that could mean there is air in the system.
> ...


I've found that adding in a few quick compressions strokes in the mix will also dislodge tiny air bubbles that might be trapped. Also rotating the shock to various angles helped bubbles rise to the top.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Tabby (Nov 11, 2013)

Hi folks. Here 200 lb weight and a Cube Stereo 160. It’s too linear and bottoming out easily 
What do you recommend on rebound and volume spacers as a starting point?
Any thoughts about bladder or first tray out with tokens?
Thanks 


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

if the travel blows really easy, try 3 tokens in positive chamber.
plus put 200psi in a bladder later
or start with 200psi in a bladder (easier to do than tokens),
but still, if your shock is quite clean, putting tokens is 5-10 mins job.


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## Tabby (Nov 11, 2013)

razorjack said:


> if the travel blows really easy, try 3 tokens in positive chamber.
> plus put 200psi in a bladder later
> or start with 200psi in a bladder (easier to do than tokens),
> but still, if your shock is quite clean, putting tokens is 5-10 mins job.


Ok, thanks mate. But if I want 200 psi in bladder, I have to put 230 psi, is that right?
I say it because of air leaks on suspensions pump. I have this one


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

^that shock pump should work fine. do not overpressure the bladder, it is accurate and that pump is accurate. the air that comes out when releasing the shock pump is not the chamber, it is the air line. the bladder is going to stay at the pressure you saw on the dial. and when you reattach it, the bladder fills the air line, making it seem like it lost pressure but it didn't, it only lost pressure while you attached the shock pump. however, after a week or two my topaz bladder does go a bit lower (from 200 to 180 maybe in 6 rides or two weeks of sitting)


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Doug said:


> I spoke to Ronnie about this and other things. I asked how to get more of a climbing platform using the switch. He said to put two more shims (6mm ID, 15mm OD, 0.2mm thick) on the compression loader. That would stiffen it up. I asked if it would also increase damping in the Open setting. He said no, the "open" is very open.
> 
> He also gave a few other tips:
> -to see if you have air in your oil, let the air out of the main can, then the reservoir. Remove the reservoir valve core. Slide a 3.5mm hex in (don't jam it in or you can damage the bladder!) and measure how far in it goes. It should be about 35mm. If it is less that could mean there is air in the system.
> ...


I have to admit, this is a side of this I didn't consider. Teh open mode on the topaz is indeed basically fully open. It's essentially bypassing the compression shims almost entirely and it's operating as an open port damper. This is an oversimplification and there is still some compression damping going on, but it's very, very little. This is basically why I don't use the open setting on my particular topaz. I do all of my tuning in medium knowing that's what I'm going to use for everything. This likely won't work on all frames as some frames want very, very light compression, but I still think it's something to keep in mind. If i were a fresh topaz owner I would at some point, try and set the bike up to use the medium compression setting (adjusting your + and - air spring to accommodate) that.

I digress... I didn't consider that open mode isn't going to be affected much, if at all by compression shim stack changes. That means that the relationship between open and medium can change, but the % change from medium to firm will stay fairly consistent. So yeah, something to consider if you're looking for a more dramatic change from open to medium.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

@Minimusprime

What bike are you riding that makes you like prefer the middle setting as opposed to full open? Also, the trails you ride play a big part in your setup. Someone who rides cross country trails might not need as much suspension as someone taking 3 foot drops.

With that said, I rarely use all of my 150mm of rear suspension and ride in full open all the time.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> That means that the relationship between open and medium can change, but the % change from medium to firm will stay fairly consistent. So yeah, something to consider if you're looking for a more dramatic change from open to medium.


I was riding steep, fast, chunky trails in SoCal. They usually had a long fire road climb to the top. I would have it closed up and then open down. Open was great, but the closed setting was not that effective on my bike. Occasionally on more XC trails I would use the middle setting.

Now I'm in eastern NY riding more classic trails. Slower, rockier, roots, no long grinding climbs, shorter and slower downhill sections. Different trails that may benefit from a different tune. The better climbing platform isn't needed here, however it is a VPP bike (Tallboy LTc) which has a bit "wallowy" mid stroke so a bit more damping is a good thing. I like the open setting on particularly rocky and rooty trails. It keeps the rear end from hanging up.

The other day I rode a few miles on a slow rocky trail and didn't realize it was closed. It wasn't terrible, but I did notice the bike felt harsh and was hanging up a bit. If the extra shims make the trail mode ride like closed does now, that could be perfect (for me) on the pedally trails. Open would still work great for the fast or rough stuff. A stronger platform in closed would be a bonus that I don't need as much anymore.

I may change it for no other reason than I can and I often let my curiosity get the better of me. Winter is approaching so I will have plenty of nights to open it up and play with tunes.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

IRBent said:


> @Minimusprime
> 
> What bike are you riding that makes you like prefer the middle setting as opposed to full open? Also, the trails you ride play a big part in your setup. Someone who rides cross country trails might not need as much suspension as someone taking 3 foot drops.
> 
> ...


I'm on a original santa cruz hightower that is partially long shocked. I milled the 7mm travel reducing spacer down by 4.5mm so that there are 2.5mm left to ensure that it's impossible to bottom teh tire out on the seat tube. I have a hightower LT upper link and I've gone back and forth between that and the og hightower upper link to try different things on this bike I have a dialed in setting for each link and it would be hard to decide which setup i like better.

FWIW, I ride this bike on everything and I ride it extremely hard. I'm 6'2", 180lbs and I would categorize myself as experienced and pretty advanced for an amateur rider. Because of my size and riding style, I'm able to put a lot of leverage into the bike. For example, even though I'm only 180-185lbs geared... I need to run about 215psi in the main can, which is more then other people my weight.

I live in socal and my hightower with my topaz is paired with a 150mm ACS3 converted pike with a 2.5" minion on the front. This thing sees a lot of time in bike parks, jump lines and steeps and chunk in laguna and the local mountain ranges. There are a few super gnarly trails in laguna, mammoth and northstar where it's so chunky that I'll use the open mode setting. However generally, open mode is far too wallowy and doesn't offer enough support on this particular frame to keep the bike poppy and playful. I sorta have a boost off everything on the trail riding style.

FWIW, I am not the type of person that believes I should be using all of my front and rear travel on every ride. I believe there is an optimum suspension setup for my weight, riding style and the kinematics of my frame, and the trail dictates how much travel is used.



Doug said:


> I was riding steep, fast, chunky trails in SoCal. They usually had a long fire road climb to the top. I would have it closed up and then open down. Open was great, but the closed setting was not that effective on my bike. Occasionally on more XC trails I would use the middle setting.
> 
> Now I'm in eastern NY riding more classic trails. Slower, rockier, roots, no long grinding climbs, shorter and slower downhill sections. Different trails that may benefit from a different tune. The better climbing platform isn't needed here, however it is a VPP bike (Tallboy LTc) which has a bit "wallowy" mid stroke so a bit more damping is a good thing. I like the open setting on particularly rocky and rooty trails. It keeps the rear end from hanging up.
> 
> ...


I live in orange county so I'm likely riding some of the trails you're mentioning.

Definitely some truth in the trail style dictating settings and setup. I actually find the opposite in many cases on chunky trails but it very likely could be down to frame kinematics. While the VPP setup on my hightower provides a great pedaling platform, using it in open starts to generate some pedal kick back when doing technical climbing as you're going too far into the stroke.

I have a riding style where I don't smash or monster truck things. I'm generally hucking the bike up and over rocks, roots and technical items shifting my hips and hopping the bike when needed. I do the same thing while descending where I'm hopping over chunk on trails instead of just straight lining it. Because of that, I end up needing compression damping always, otherwise I end up in the wrong part of the VPP suspension curve and that leads to blowing through travel needlessly.

With the modern VPP setups, it's very easy to go too far trying to tame the feedback you get from small trail chatter. I think this is why you see a lot of people struggling to find a setup that provides the right amount of support, doesn't feel harsh, and doesn't blow through travel. I find, a lot of people on the intermediate to advanced intermediate level chase a demon of using all their travel and end up with some harsh/sketchy bottom out events but not the trail feed back they perceive as general harshness.

You sorta hear murmurs of this a lot in the comment sections of pro-bike checks. People can't fathom how firm the pro's bikes are, and it's all about the energy they are putting into the bike to work the terrain vs letting the bike manage the terrain. The key is that this all comes down to riding style. If you're expecting to go heals down into a chunky section and holding onto the bars expecting the bike to do the work, you're going to need it to work out all of the terrain for you. If you're going to be very active and look for the alternate lines where you're timing getting light and heavy on the pedals in order to work with the terrain, the suspension needs to provide the right support at the right time.

_Edit: I forgot to mention that my setup on the topaz changed once I added the ACS3 I mentioned above. I sorta felt that my hightower was a bit harsh with the factory pike rc and monarch. I assumed that was 100% down to the monarch shock and bought a topaz to combat that. The feeling of the bike improved greatly with that change... but once I added the ACS3 to the mix, I was able to run more compression damping and a firmer air spring on the topaz and still achieve the small bump compliance I was looking for. It was a big reminder to me that you can have one of the bike with a setup that isn't quite right, and that will send excess energy to the other end of the bike.

I really discovered this phenomenon when I had my topaz apart for service for a bit over a week. I threw the stock monarch back on the bike and I was shocked how good the small bump compliance was on that shock, mostly because i hated it previously. Had the stock monarch felt as good from the factory as it did when paired with my acs3 pike, I likely wouldn't have wanted to upgrade the shock so fast. _


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Anyone riding a topaz on a 2015-2016 patrol? Any recommended starting point? I had it on a banshee rune but I feel this frame is going to feel much different. I’m 220 lbs. biggest drop I’ve done is about 4-5 feet with the longest sender of 20 feet. Also like the chunky trails. Any help would be great!


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## Tabby (Nov 11, 2013)

How can I know the size of the shock? It’s a second hand one,and not sure if it’s 200x51 or 200x57
Thanks 


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Tabby said:


> How can I know the size of the shock? It's a second hand one,and not sure if it's 200x51 or 200x57
> Thanks
> 
> Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


Measure the distance between the shaft seal and the o-ring after you compress it.

Let all of the air out, compress fully which will push Tue o-ring down the shaft. Inflate to fully extend the shock then measure the distance between the shock seal and the o-ring.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Tabby (Nov 11, 2013)

IRBent said:


> Measure the distance between the shaft seal and the o-ring after you compress it.
> 
> Let all of the air out, compress fully which will push Tue o-ring down the shaft. Inflate to fully extend the shock then measure the distance between the shock seal and the o-ring.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Thanks mate!!

Enviado desde mi iPhone utilizando Tapatalk


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Junersun said:


> Anyone riding a topaz on a 2015-2016 patrol? Any recommended starting point? I had it on a banshee rune but I feel this frame is going to feel much different. I'm 220 lbs. biggest drop I've done is about 4-5 feet with the longest sender of 20 feet. Also like the chunky trails. Any help would be great!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'm on a 16 Scout with a Topaz. I put 2 bands in the positive side and 1 in the negative, set it to 33% sag. Love this setup!


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

max_lombardy said:


> I'm on a 16 Scout with a Topaz. I put 2 bands in the positive side and 1 in the negative, set it to 33% sag. Love this setup!


Thanks! I'll start there too then

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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

Yeah the stock monarch blew through the travel so easily. I wanted it to be more progressive so I threw in those 2 positive bands right off the bat. Huge improvement.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

max_lombardy said:


> Yeah the stock monarch blew through the travel so easily. I wanted it to be more progressive so I threw in those 2 positive bands right off the bat. Huge improvement.


Nice. On my rune I was running 2pos 3neg but since transition bikes have a progressive leverage rate at the end I'm hoping I won't need to compensate as much! Push come the shove the monarch will go to avalanche.

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## Tabby (Nov 11, 2013)

Can someone measure the real travel of a 200x57 Topaz? Mine measures 55 mm and should be 57 o a bit more. Shock specs says it's a 200x57,but isn't the case 
Thanks I'm advance


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## Tabby (Nov 11, 2013)

IRBent said:


> Measure the distance between the shaft seal and the o-ring after you compress it.
> 
> Let all of the air out, compress fully which will push Tue o-ring down the shaft. Inflate to fully extend the shock then measure the distance between the shock seal and the o-ring.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I have done it,and it's strange but measures 55mm,then o-ring,fall down


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Tabby said:


> Can someone measure the real travel of a 200x57 Topaz? Mine measures 55 mm and should be 57 o a bit more. Shock specs says it's a 200x57,but isn't the case
> Thanks I'm advance


Mine is a 200x50 (same as the 200x57 but with a 7mm spacer) and it has an O-ring and washer that hold the spacer in place. Yours likely has just the O-ring or something else that act as a top out bumper. You won't get the full 57 unless you really compress it hard. Not 100% sure of that, but most shocks have some sort of top out protection that won't let you get the full XXmm of travel when measured.


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## davideb87 (Dec 13, 2017)

Wrong message


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I've found some serious strangeness to the 200x50 vs 200x57 stuff with the topaz as well. with the 7mm spacer in place, if you empty all of hte air out of the shock and bottom it out on you frame, you'll find it will travel more then 50mm and will blow the o-ring off teh bottom of the shaft. I'm not sure if there is a weird hydralic bottom out or air spring bottom out that comes into place that stops it or what. 

On the flip side, with the 7mm travel reducing spacer removed, it doesn't seem to travel all that much more and will again, blow the o-ring off of the shaft at bottom out. 

It is very confusing but I've shaved the spacer down and again, when i bottom the shock out with no air in it, it seems to go further then you would think. In practice however, with the shock air'd up, it seems impossible to utilize that much travel in general usage of the shock.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

My topaz would definitely not knock the o-ring off with the spacer installed, I seem to remember a few mm remaining. It did once removed. Have you done any other work to the shock? The air piston bottoms out on the spacer/casting.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I have a Stumpjumper with maximum four spacers in the positive and 30% sag. I run 210 psi in the shock and 190 in the bladder, I'd say I'm 170 lbs fully equipped. I still bottom out quite easily. It's not like it's about to explode or anything, but just uses 100% of travel on fairly moderate terrain. I'd say I do no larger drops than 2-3 feet. Is it possible to make it more progressive? What would a spacer in the negative do for me?


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

How sure are you that you have 30% sag? Are you actually measuring it based on the usable amount of travel (not the length of the shaft)?

I ran one on a Stumpy, I’m 20 lbs heavier and I ran around 250psi to get a true 30% sag on that bike.

No offense intended, but I’d guess your sag is off.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I have measured full travel (ca 45 mm) and divided by 100 and multiplied with 30 (ca 13,5 mm). I guess that's how it is done 
Anyway I'm 150 lbs w/o stuff. I carry a lot of stuff right now, it's winter.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Sounds like you should call dvo for a base setup, they are happy to help. You sound like you are way off for your weight and style but I don't know those bikes.

I would guess add some air and remove some bladder pressure. Sag is not useful for tuning it's just a reference.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

crimedog said:


> Sag is not useful for tuning it's just a reference.


Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Blatant said:


> Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.


You figure out sag to start then add/subtract to tune. I think you're both right.

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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

H-akka said:


> I have a Stumpjumper with maximum four spacers in the positive and 30% sag. I run 210 psi in the shock and 190 in the bladder, I'd say I'm 170 lbs fully equipped. I still bottom out quite easily. It's not like it's about to explode or anything, but just uses 100% of travel on fairly moderate terrain. I'd say I do no larger drops than 2-3 feet. Is it possible to make it more progressive? What would a spacer in the negative do for me?


I'm not sure how progressive stumpy is, but these numbers look fine to me. Except, 4 spacers, in the positive?? It should be progressive as hell ... I'm 220 ready to ride, no spacers, BUT I'm on progressive bike(Jeffsy), and do not bottom out almost at all. But I use full travel, I guess I should say I do not bottom out harshly...

Anyways, call DVO, cool people, You'll get real knowledgeable human on the phone, and they will help you sort it out.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

My Stumpy is very linear. I'll try some more before I call them. Think I'll try less air in bladder and more in shock


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

H-akka said:


> My Stumpy is very linear. I'll try some more before I call them. Think I'll try less air in bladder and more in shock


At your weight, I'd say your last comment is headed in the wrong direction. I only run about 184psi and I weigh more than you. But I'm not riding the same bike either. I'd suggest raising the bladder pressure instead. That way it will slow down the compression across the entire stroke.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Blatant said:


> Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.


Spring rate is. Sag is a secondary way to approximate correct spring rate. Adjust by feel to get the right spring rate. Add volume spacers if sag needs tuning.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

IRBent said:


> At your weight, I'd say your last comment is headed in the wrong direction. I only run about 184psi and I weigh more than you. But I'm not riding the same bike either. I'd suggest raising the bladder pressure instead. That way it will slow down the compression across the entire stroke.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Thanks! Got it right now!


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

H-akka said:


> Thanks! Got it right now!


By right, do you mean your shock is performing better now?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

It doesn't bottom out now. Felt good.


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

Hi guys,

Two related questions about the DVO Topaz:

1) I have a 230mmx60mm Topaz, I understand that I can remove a nylon spacer on the shock shaft to get 65mm travel. Since this does not change the eye to eye length of the shock, is it just the case that I have an extra 10mm wheel travel on my bike? The static geometry wouldn't change, and sagged would be slightly lower for same %?

2) The spacer is a white c-clip in the "top" of the air can on the shaft right? When I was removing my air sleeve to play with spacers, the entire air can slid down for some reason so I could see that spacer. I managed to get the sleeve off the body and reassembled the shock and it seems fine, holding air.

Bike is a YT Jeffsy 27 CF if it matters. I am 215lbs before gear, 225-230ish geared up, shock is at 230psi main, 195psi piggy back, rebound 4 out (probably go 5 since it's 4-8C when I ride now). I had no bands, just put one negative band it to experiment with tomorrow. Have maybe 8 rides on the shock and it blows the RS Deluxe RT3 it replaced out of the water... just trying to tune shock feel with bands now.


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

scoobiemario said:


> I'm not sure how progressive stumpy is, but these numbers look fine to me. Except, 4 spacers, in the positive?? It should be progressive as hell ... I'm 220 ready to ride, no spacers, BUT I'm on progressive bike(Jeffsy), and do not bottom out almost at all. But I use full travel, I guess I should say I do not bottom out harshly...
> 
> Anyways, call DVO, cool people, You'll get real knowledgeable human on the phone, and they will help you sort it out.


Hi there, mind sharing your total Topaz settings? I'm new to MTBR, tried to search your posts but failed... I'm on a Jeffsy 27 so very similar leverage curve and I am about your size as well.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

gramboh said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Two related questions about the DVO Topaz:
> 
> ...


Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Blatant said:


> Not trying to start a slap-fight, but I could not disagree more. Sag is a baseline for all subsequent tuning.


No worries, although Doug already covered it what I meant is that being at an arbitrary sag gradient is not what is important. You use sag to start to make sure that you're getting close to the correct spring rate and then you tune from there. I theorize that people obsess about their sag percentage at the expense of better tuning. A range of sag works for each bike but each rider will prefer a different spring rate (and thus, sag) which is chosen in conjunction with their suspension gear (damper and spring characteristics require slightly different spring rate strategies.)


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

gramboh said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Two related questions about the DVO Topaz:
> 
> ...





gramboh said:


> Hi there, mind sharing your total Topaz settings? I'm new to MTBR, tried to search your posts but failed... I'm on a Jeffsy 27 so very similar leverage curve and I am about your size as well.


1. By adding 5mm to the shock travel you'll add 12.5 mm to the rear wheel. You really have to make sure that no binding occurs, as this can damage the frame. Compress suspension without the air in the shock and check. 
Another thing is, in some situations this can put your bottom bracket 12mm or so lower than it is now. Like landing from drop or jump. And this may lead to striking the ground and damaging something....

2. My settings are very close to yours: 
- 230Psi in main can(225 psi currently, since it's cold and I wanted to soften sus a little)
- 190 psi in bladder (lowered to 185 for above reason)
- no tokens at all
- 4 clicks of rebound from fully closed. I'm probably gonna open it 1-2 clicks for winter.

I like it this way. have maybe 4-5 mm travel left while normal riding(including small jumps), little less doing 5 ft drops. I bottom it out sometimes, usually when I do something wrong landing


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

IRBent said:


> Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I did this on my Topaz. However, my bike is designed with such a change in mind.

The way my bike is designed, it can be either a 135/145 mm trail bike or a 150/165 mm enduro bike depending on shock travel.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

sounds ok for Jeffsy27.5
'normal Jeffsy has 150mm of travel (with 230x60mm)
but Jeffsy CF PRO Race has more travel - 160mm (and 230x65mm shock)


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

scoobiemario said:


> 1. By adding 5mm to the shock travel you'll add 12.5 mm to the rear wheel. You really have to make sure that no binding occurs, as this can damage the frame. Compress suspension without the air in the shock and check.
> Another thing is, in some situations this can put your bottom bracket 12mm or so lower than it is now. Like landing from drop or jump. And this may lead to striking the ground and damaging something....
> 
> 2. My settings are very close to yours:
> ...


Thanks for the detailed settings! I tried the bike with 1 negative band and was able to drop 5psi and still have slightly less sag than before. Bike felt a bit more supported and but still soft off the top and good grip. It was colder today than my last few rides so that may have had an impact.

Great point about BB height at bottom out, had not thought about that. I have definitely clipped my pedals on rocks at bottom out, or even just dragged my heels on the ground in certain situations... I run my Jeffsy in the low setting as well (341mm BB height).



razorjack said:


> sounds ok for Jeffsy27.5
> 'normal Jeffsy has 150mm of travel (with 230x60mm)
> but Jeffsy CF PRO Race has more travel - 160mm (and 230x65mm shock)





IRBent said:


> Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yep, the Jeffsy 27 was designed for up to 160mm rear travel, but only the top models come with a 65mm stroke shock to achieve that. I was trying to make sure I had my head around the impact on the bike handling with the extra travel. Thanks!


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

I didn't realize that 27.5 Pro Race has 160mm travel... That is Capra territory . 
Mine is 29'r with 140/140


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

scoobiemario said:


> I didn't realize that 27.5 Pro Race has 160mm travel... That is Capra territory .
> Mine is 29'r with 140/140


Yep, definitely blurring the lines! I have been happy with the 150/150 in general at 27.5 but since I sold my downhill bike earlier this summer I am looking to upsize the Jeffsy slightly but not go full 170/180mm like the Capra 27.5. I'll be 160/160 and using offset bushings to get the HTA down to about 65.5 which should suit nicely for the riding around here (coastal BC).


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

gramboh said:


> Yep, definitely blurring the lines! I have been happy with the 150/150 in general at 27.5 but since I sold my downhill bike earlier this summer I am looking to upsize the Jeffsy slightly but not go full 170/180mm like the Capra 27.5. I'll be 160/160 and using offset bushings to get the HTA down to about 65.5 which should suit nicely for the riding around here (coastal BC).


Rather than using offset bushings which have negative side effects, see if you can use a Works Components angleset headset to change your head angle. It won't do as much damage to the BB height or rear linkage yet will slacken the head angle and raise the seat tube angle some too. A win win.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

gramboh said:


> I'll be 160/160 and using offset bushings to get the HTA down to about 65.5 which should suit nicely for the riding around here (coastal BC).


Ditto IRBent and use an Angleset. I ride a Tallboy LTc which had a 69 degree HTA. A 1.5 degree angleset made the bike ride much better.

I have the Can Creek, or should I say Cane Creak? It is noisy despite me being VERY careful installing it. The Works are much easier and are quiet, but you can't adjust the angle +/- 0.5 degrees which is nice with the CC.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> Ditto IRBent and use an Angleset. I ride a Tallboy LTc which had a 69 degree HTA. A 1.5 degree angleset made the bike ride much better.
> 
> I have the Can Creek, or should I say Cane Creak? It is noisy despite me being VERY careful installing it. The Works are much easier and are quiet, but you can't adjust the angle +/- 0.5 degrees which is nice with the CC.


Note too, if you're a numbers geek and understand trig. A fixed angleset by Works may give you a tad more or less angle than expected. I ride a small Bronson and due to the head tube being shorter than a medium or large frame, a 1° angleset actually came closer to a 1.4° change. I went from 67° down to 65.6°. My Works headset has been silent and easy to maintain as well. Definitely easier to install compared to the CC with its movable cup races and bearings.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

I don't believe a Jeffsy can use an angleset.


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## kwapik (Mar 1, 2016)

Jeffsy AL models can use an angleset 

Jeffsy CF models can not use an angleset


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

kwapik said:


> Jeffsy AL models can use an angleset
> 
> Jeffsy CF models can not use an angleset


Why is that? Did they design the head tube different between the Al and Carbon frames?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

Essentially - YES
I believe this is due to the different headsets:

CF has IS (Integrated Stack) headset
AL has ZS (Zero Stack) headset

IS is held in frame by preloading the bearings through top cap
ZS is held in frame by friction (it is pressed in),


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

that's strange, quite often is opposite - IS (bearings direct in frame) is in alu frames... (as it's easier to damage carbon)


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## danielgrafik (Dec 3, 2011)

Just got a Topaz T3 for my '16 Santa Cruz 5010 V2. I've yet to install it, but I was just wondering if anybody – who has the same bike – has some "base settings" that would be worth starting off from? I'm 185-ish lbs kitted out riding, and I like pop and playfullness, but also appreciate small bump sensitivity and a good pedal platform and supportive mid-stroke. Otherwise, I guess I gotta read up on this whole thread, and get to testing


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

danielgrafik said:


> Just got a Topaz T3 for my '16 Santa Cruz 5010 V2. I've yet to install it, but I was just wondering if anybody - who has the same bike - has some "base settings" that would be worth starting off from? I'm 185-ish lbs kitted out riding, and I like pop and playfullness, but also appreciate small bump sensitivity and a good pedal platform and supportive mid-stroke. Otherwise, I guess I gotta read up on this whole thread, and get to testing


Here's a good starting point. 2 bands in the positive and one band on the negative side. Bladder @ 175 and main air can whatever pressure gets @ 30% sag. I'd guess about 185psi in the can, maybe 188psi.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

Blatant said:


> How sure are you that you have 30% sag? Are you actually measuring it based on the usable amount of travel (not the length of the shaft)?
> 
> I ran one on a Stumpy, I'm 20 lbs heavier and I ran around 250psi to get a true 30% sag on that bike.
> 
> No offense intended, but I'd guess your sag is off.


Thanks for your help. I got it right in the end. Measured the sag again very meticulously. Might been a mm wrong. Went up to 220. But I think the fault might have been the bladder pressure. It just goes to show how thorough you need to be with all the three to get it exactly right. Now the Stumpy is awsome.


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## danielgrafik (Dec 3, 2011)

IRBent said:


> Here's a good starting point. 2 bands in the positive and one band on the negative side. Bladder @ 175 and main air can whatever pressure gets @ 30% sag. I'd guess about 185psi in the can, maybe 188psi.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Awesome, thanks for the quick reply!


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

Is bleeding the Topaz as simple as just removing the bleed screw, attaching a bleeding syringe/fitting, putting some oil in the syringe, cycling through travel?

It doesn't seem like you need to go through the whole damper rebuild process outlined in the service manual to do a bleed, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything important?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Sid Duffman said:


> Is bleeding the Topaz as simple as just removing the bleed screw, attaching a bleeding syringe/fitting, putting some oil in the syringe, cycling through travel?


Yes, pretty much. You may need to rock the shock to different angles and tap on it lightly with a screwdriver handle or rubber hammer in order to help dislodge trapped bubbles. I found slow and fast strokes to help move bubbles to the top.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## ghostbiker (Oct 24, 2018)

IRBent said:


> Note too, if you're a numbers geek and understand trig. A fixed angleset by Works may give you a tad more or less angle than expected. I ride a small Bronson and due to the head tube being shorter than a medium or large frame, a 1° angleset actually came closer to a 1.4° change. I went from 67° down to 65.6°. My Works headset has been silent and easy to maintain as well. Definitely easier to install compared to the CC with its movable cup races and bearings.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


That´s why they offer 5 variants to suit different HT lenghts and make it as accurate as possible.


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## razorjack (May 28, 2006)

IRBent said:


> Here's a good starting point. 2 bands in the positive and one band on the negative side. Bladder @ 175 and main air can whatever pressure gets @ 30% sag. I'd guess about 185psi in the can, maybe 188psi.


i had two bands in negative (to calm it down a bit on climbs), what a massive difference, shock lost all of its suppleness! i removed them for winter (more grip) - totally different feeling (in a car park  )

maybe later i'll try with one band in neg, as i want to add one more to pos (now i have 2)
(ns bikes snabb)


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Sid Duffman said:


> Is bleeding the Topaz as simple as just removing the bleed screw, attaching a bleeding syringe/fitting, putting some oil in the syringe, cycling through travel?
> 
> It doesn't seem like you need to go through the whole damper rebuild process outlined in the service manual to do a bleed, but I'd like to make sure I'm not missing anything important?


Another trick Ronnie told me, Air it up and let it sit a few hours with bleed screw up. Then let the air out of the shock and open the bleed port and do one final top off with oil.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

danielgrafik said:


> Just got a Topaz T3 for my '16 Santa Cruz 5010 V2. I've yet to install it, but I was just wondering if anybody - who has the same bike - has some "base settings" that would be worth starting off from? I'm 185-ish lbs kitted out riding, and I like pop and playfullness, but also appreciate small bump sensitivity and a good pedal platform and supportive mid-stroke. Otherwise, I guess I gotta read up on this whole thread, and get to testing


Echo the 2x positive and 1x negative. That's what I ran on my 5010. 180psi bladder. Sank too far in travel without the negative.


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

IRBent said:


> Yes, pretty much. You may need to rock the shock to different angles and tap on it lightly with a screwdriver handle or rubber hammer in order to help dislodge trapped bubbles. I found slow and fast strokes to help move bubbles to the top.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk





Doug said:


> Another trick Ronnie told me, Air it up and let it sit a few hours with bleed screw up. Then let the air out of the shock and open the bleed port and do one final top off with oil.


Thanks! Where did you get the fitting for the bleed port? I got a brake bleed kit with 5 different fittings, and none of them matched the diameter/thread pitch of the bleed screw.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Sid Duffman said:


> Thanks! Where did you get the fitting for the bleed port? I got a brake bleed kit with 5 different fittings, and none of them matched the diameter/thread pitch of the bleed screw.


I think the Rockshox Reverb fitting works although I think the first few times I used a Shimano brake fitting. While maybe not exact it was good enough to get the job done.

Disclaimer: I'm old and forgetful and think my memory is right. I know for sure that I have a universal brake bleed kit and a reverb kit and something in all of that got the job done.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Looks like the Topaz 2 is finally available for purchase: https://dvosuspension.com/product/topaz-2/

Right now it's only available in select sizes with a Giant specific tune. I wonder if DVO plans to eventually offer it in more sizes and phase out the current Topaz.


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

Phoenix864 said:


> Looks like the Topaz 2 is finally available for purchase: https://dvosuspension.com/product/topaz-2/
> 
> Right now it's only available in select sizes with a Giant specific tune. I wonder if DVO plans to eventually offer it in more sizes and phase out the current Topaz.


When I called them while ago, they told me that 
Topaz 2 is not really different internally than Topaz 1, and it will not be available in sizes other than what fits Giant bikes


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

That air can sure looks like it has some extra bulge on the negative side, very different than the previous Topaz. Wonder how absolute volumes and volume ratios compare to v1.


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

IRBent said:


> I think the Rockshox Reverb fitting works although I think the first few times I used a Shimano brake fitting. While maybe not exact it was good enough to get the job done.
> 
> Disclaimer: I'm old and forgetful and think my memory is right. I know for sure that I have a universal brake bleed kit and a reverb kit and something in all of that got the job done.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Yup, you're right. I confirmed with Ronnie at DVO that the reverb fitting works perfectly. Luckily, my buddy had one. Having the correct fitting made for a much more satisfying (and cleaner) bleed.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Sid Duffman said:


> Yup, you're right. I confirmed with Ronnie at DVO that the reverb fitting works perfectly. Luckily, my buddy had one. Having the correct fitting made for a much more satisfying (and cleaner) bleed.


Thanks for the update. Maybe proof that my 52 year old clutch isn't slipping as bad as I thought. LOL

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi all,

I have recently been refining my Topaz tune, and have been looking to try increasing compression dampening a bit. Has anyone tried tuning around the middle setting of the 3 position switch? Would it be worth trying to tune the shock around the middle compression setting, or would it just be a waste of time resulting in excessive dampening? 

Thanks.


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## blizzardfish (Dec 27, 2018)

Hi,

I was having a minor air leak with my Topaz and bought a seal kit from DVO. After replacing all the seals and putting it back together the shock won't hold any pressure. The shock is now puking air out of the top of the can right above the inlet port. I've obviously done something wrong but I can't figure out what. I have 3 O-rings on the inside of the can (top middle and bottom). I've swapped O-rings and even flipped the cover upside down to see if the leak would move and nothing changed. Has anyone else experienced this problem?

Thanks!

blizz


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

My guess: misaligned or damaged oring. 
Or maybe internal can, the one that can be unthreaded is loose.(I assume that’s how topaz is build. Like monarch. I haven’t taken my topaz apart yet) 
I would call Dvo. They will help.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

blizzardfish said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was having a minor air leak with my Topaz and bought a seal kit from DVO. After replacing all the seals and putting it back together the shock won't hold any pressure. The shock is now puking air out of the top of the can right above the inlet port. I've obviously done something wrong but I can't figure out what. I have 3 O-rings on the inside of the can (top middle and bottom). I've swapped O-rings and even flipped the cover upside down to see if the leak would move and nothing changed. Has anyone else experienced this problem?
> 
> ...


Are you saying there's a leak from the shrader valve? You can replace those or sometimes it just needs tightening

Unless you are absolutely sure about the location of the leak, I would dunk it in a bucket of water and find the source.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I just put my new topaz on a transition sentinel which has a pretty linear linkage. I’m about 210 lbs. I’m thinking about starting with 2 spacers in pos chamber and 1 neg chamber. Any suggestions?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

cYbernation said:


> I just put my new topaz on a transition sentinel which has a pretty linear linkage. I'm about 210 lbs. I'm thinking about starting with 2 spacers in pos chamber and 1 neg chamber. Any suggestions?


I have it on my patrol, I'm 215 lbs and my settings are

215 main can
190 bladder
0 pos
1 neg
Rebound full open

Hope that helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## max_lombardy (Apr 29, 2012)

cYbernation said:


> I just put my new topaz on a transition sentinel which has a pretty linear linkage. I'm about 210 lbs. I'm thinking about starting with 2 spacers in pos chamber and 1 neg chamber. Any suggestions?


After a couple years with a Topaz on my Scout, this is the setup I landed on. It seems to play well with the TR suspension curve. Maybe add a bit of air to the bladder. Honestly you can't go wrong talking to one of the guys at DVO. I'd say give them a call and see what they have to say.


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

Hi guys. I just upgraded my RM Altitude with Topaz and I am dazed and confused... with reading the pressure of a bladder. I suppose the reading I get when I pump the thing up is the actual one. I have no idea if I loose some pressure when I dismount the pump. I am not a native speaker so I don't exactly understand what "initial reading is low" noticed in the manual actually means.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

goobak said:


> Hi guys. I just upgraded my RM Altitude with Topaz and I am dazed and confused... with reading the pressure of a bladder. I suppose the reading I get when I pump the thing up is the actual one. I have no idea if I loose some pressure when I dismount the pump. I am not a native speaker so I don't exactly understand what "initial reading is low" noticed in the manual actually means.


I had a similar question when I first picked up my topaz. In short, you do not loose any pressure when you disconnect your pump (as long as your pump is decent quality and working well).

The air you hear escaping when disconnecting and pressure loss you see when reconnecting is only the air exiting/entering the shock pump hose, not the shock itself. Due to the high pressure of the bladder and its very small volume, the pressure difference after connecting the hose is much higher than with a normal air can. This is normal and nothing to be worried about. Just fill the bladder to the psi you like, disconnect, and you should be good to go.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

goobak said:


> Hi guys. I just upgraded my RM Altitude with Topaz and I am dazed and confused... with reading the pressure of a bladder. I suppose the reading I get when I pump the thing up is the actual one. I have no idea if I loose some pressure when I dismount the pump. I am not a native speaker so I don't exactly understand what "initial reading is low" noticed in the manual actually means.


Yes, the reading you get when you pump up the bladder with your shock pump should represent the pressure in the bladder. When you unscrew the shock pump, the air you hear coming out is what was in the shock pump, not air coming out of the bladder. Very little air escapes out of the bladder through the schrader valve when disconnecting the pump.

The next time you thread the shock pump on, the gauge reading will be low, since air from the bladder will escape into the shock pump and pressurize it when the valve opens. The volume of air in the bladder on the topaz is small, so you'll see a large change in what the gauge reads, compared to what you would see when putting air into the air can or into your fork.

If you want to check to see what pressure your bladder is at after you've ridden the bike, screw the shock pump part way onto the schrader valve, but not far enough to open the valve, then give the shock pump a few pumps to pressurize it to about the range you have your bladder set at, then thread the shock pump the rest of the way on. You'll see the needle on your shock pump gauge jump slightly to match the pressure in the bladder. Not perfect, but close enough to know if you're losing pressure from the bladder.

So, if you run 200 psi in the bladder, pre-pressurize your shock pump to 200 psi. If the needle drops a significant amount when the valve opens, you know you're losing pressure from the bladder.

I've notice the bladder pressure will drop over time (I believe this is normal from what others have reported in this thread), so if I haven't ridden the bike in a week or so, I'll top off the bladder before riding.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

This I think is the only minus with this shock. If you don't like checking your pressures every week I would not buy. If you like to check the bike before you ride anyway it is low price for a great shock. I get a slight loss from both bladder and shock. Not much, but I need to top up every other week.


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

twd953 said:


> Yes, the reading you get when you pump up the bladder with your shock pump should represent the pressure in the bladder.


Thanks! It of course means I gave the bike a testride with terribly overpressurized bladder (it is -15 degrees here actually so no big harm, just rode around the house ).

I am rather heavy (+- 240 lbs geared up), I suppose I shall start with something like +2/+1 spacers in the shock if I want to keep the Ride9 setting on my Altitude set on the slackest/most linear?


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:

1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.

2) also I have a 50mm stroke shock, so it has a 7mm spacer in it (as the 50 and 57mm strokes are the same but the 50 has a spacer), some of the plastic had cracked inside and now the spacer doesn't clip onto the shaft anymore. Windwave (UK distributor) has kindly sent me 3 2.5mm ones but they say it's not a spare part and they're talking to DVO about it.

Does anyone know if a travel spacer from a different brand like Fox or Rockshox will work?

Thanks


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

Steve.E said:


> Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:
> 
> 1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.
> 
> ...


As for 1): 
Some clips have two sides, one supposed to face what they are designed to hold, one supposed to face outside. Difference is in edges. Sharp, or rounded. Is i t possible that you installed yours with rounded edge facing bladder and that's why is slipping? 
Just guessing here


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

H-akka said:


> This I think is the only minus with this shock. If you don't like checking your pressures every week I would not buy. If you like to check the bike before you ride anyway it is low price for a great shock. I get a slight loss from both bladder and shock. Not much, but I need to top up every other week.


I disagree. I do not loose any pressure from mine. If yours does, it either needs lubrication, rebuild or proper technique to connect pump.

I screw pump onto the valve far enough to seal it, but not to press schrader valve. Than I pressurize it to what I had it set previously. This was both shock, and pump should be in theory at the same pressure. Than screw pump all the way in, which engages valve, and equalizes both sides. 
Pressure reading does not change.


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

I've just checked it and it's completely round all the way around, thanks though.

Looking at the pictures from the manual I don't think the circlips I've ordered will work as the bladder is right up flush with the end of the reservoir  I can't understand why air keeps pissing out when it gets to around 70psi.


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## Kaparzo (Dec 21, 2003)

scoobiemario said:


> I disagree. I do not loose any pressure from mine. If yours does, it either needs lubrication, rebuild or proper technique to connect pump.
> 
> I screw pump onto the valve far enough to seal it, but not to press schrader valve. Than I pressurize it to what I had it set previously. This was both shock, and pump should be in theory at the same pressure. Than screw pump all the way in, which engages valve, and equalizes both sides.
> Pressure reading does not change.


I had this pressure loss issue with mine, even right after a factory service, and I've read this is true for other people. Said this before, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of. It was also definitely a result of riding volume/terrain. On bigger/harder days, it lost more pressure. It's a great shock and I've considered going back to it after trying a coil.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Kaparzo said:


> I had this pressure loss issue with mine, even right after a factory service, and I've read this is true for other people. Said this before, but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing, just something to be aware of. It was also definitely a result of riding volume/terrain. On bigger/harder days, it lost more pressure. It's a great shock and I've considered going back to it after trying a coil.


Truth. Mine loses a handful of PSI over a 2-4 week period. I have not noticed any reduction in bladder pressure during a ride, just letting the bike sit for a few weeks it will lose 10-20psi out of the bladder which is enough to need to re-check.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

Steve.E said:


> Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:
> 
> 1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.
> 
> ...


You must be doing something fundamentally wrong with the bladder. It fits tightly against the housing so if you had installed the clip correctly it would be impossible for it to be pulled out. Step 76 in the service manual has this step with pictures.


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## djindian (Mar 20, 2017)

Does anyone know how to convert my Topaz 200x51 to a 200x57?


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

djindian said:


> Does anyone know how to convert my Topaz 200x51 to a 200x57?


Take the outer and inner air. Cans off and remove the white travel reducing spacer. Re-assemble and send to appropriate taste level.


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

Steve.E said:


> Hey all, just done a first full service on my Topaz, I have a couple of concerns on reassmbly:
> 
> 1) the spring retainer doesn't seem big enough to hold the alloy bladder into the housing, when I add pressure to the bladder the bladder (alloy part) gradually rises up as the pressure increases past the retaining ring, I don't understand! It's definitely seated correctly but it won't hold it In. Has anyone had this happen before? I've ordered an internal circlip that's got a larger diameter that should hold it in place.


Here's an update in case anyone has the same problem as me; you have to be very careful when pulling the bladder back up to meet the retainer clip, if you pull one side slightly more than the other then it'll pull past the retaining ring and cause an air leak when you pressuise the bladder. My valve puller is only a very small handled one so it made this tricky.



Steve.E said:


> 2) also I have a 50mm stroke shock, so it has a 7mm spacer in it (as the 50 and 57mm strokes are the same but the 50 has a spacer), some of the plastic had cracked inside and now the spacer doesn't clip onto the shaft anymore. Windwave (UK distributor) has kindly sent me 3 2.5mm ones but they say it's not a spare part and they're talking to DVO about it.
> 
> Does anyone know if a travel spacer from a different brand like Fox or Rockshox will work?


Turns out the fox one (from an rp23) has an id of about 13mm, the topaz is 10 so it wouldn't fit.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

minimusprime said:


> Take the outer and inner air. Cans off and remove the white travel reducing spacer. Re-assemble and send to appropriate taste level.


Does this mean that I can use a 210x57 with added 2mm spacer on my 210x55 frame?

P.S. Scratch that... it's 216x57, not 210. Oh well, the search continues.


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

Hi guys.
I am looking for proper setup on my Rocky Mountain Altitude model 2016 (ride9 set to the slackest). I am rather heavy (210 lbs geared up) and if I keep the sag on desired 30% I end with 280 psi in the main chamber (200 in the bladder). Shock works nice and smoothly eating whatever it gets but I am not able to use full travel. Seems the Rocky is progressive a lot. No big jumps here, 1m drops max. My brain says "put a spacer into negative, leave positive empty", is this ok?
Thanks


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## Hangtime (Jan 25, 2006)

goobak said:


> Hi guys.
> I am looking for proper setup on my Rocky Mountain Altitude model 2016 (ride9 set to the slackest). I am rather heavy (210 lbs geared up) and if I keep the sag on desired 30% I end with 280 psi in the main chamber (200 in the bladder). Shock works nice and smoothly eating whatever it gets but I am not able to use full travel. Seems the Rocky is progressive a lot. No big jumps here, 1m drops max. My brain says "put a spacer into negative, leave positive empty", is this ok?
> Thanks


I'm about your size geared up. Last year I was at Crankworx Whistler and the DVO guys did a quick tune on my Topaz. I'm running similar air PSI and one spacer in the positive chamber. I'm getting almost all of the travel, ring is right the end most rides. I'm not taking huge jumps either. It's super plush. Bike set up is a Banshee Spitfire w/Fox 36(160mm)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

What’s the consensus on how much pressure you drop for each positive band added? I went from 2(+) and 1(-),to 3(+) and 2(-) on my Knolly Endorphin to see how it would feel


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## 661lee (Apr 11, 2007)

goobak said:


> Hi guys.
> I am looking for proper setup on my Rocky Mountain Altitude model 2016 (ride9 set to the slackest). I am rather heavy (210 lbs geared up) and if I keep the sag on desired 30% I end with 280 psi in the main chamber (200 in the bladder). Shock works nice and smoothly eating whatever it gets but I am not able to use full travel. Seems the Rocky is progressive a lot. No big jumps here, 1m drops max. My brain says "put a spacer into negative, leave positive empty", is this ok?
> Thanks


I think your brain is on the right track. Try 1 or 2 bands in the negative.


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## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

IRBent said:


> Removing the spacer and gaining a few extra mm of travel is on possible and safe provided your wheel doesn't hit the frame and the linkages don't bind up. Let all the air out and compress fully, maybe event violently, and see if things hit or bind.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Does anyone run the Topaz on the new Kona Process 153? I just picked one up and curious what a good baseline setting would be in regards to spacers. It seems to have a fairly similar linkage curve to the transition sentinel so I was originally leaning to 2+ and 1- or trying 3+ and 2-

I'm about 195lbs geared up and ride chunky terrain in AZ. No jumps, just drops ranging from 1-3 feet occasionally.

Thanks!!


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Just put a Topaz in my Banshee Spitfire and set the sag. I just noticed that I cannot feel any difference in low speed compression damping between the three lever settings - really nothing. Is this normal?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

yo_eddie said:


> Just put a Topaz in my Banshee Spitfire and set the sag. I just noticed that I cannot feel any difference in low speed compression damping between the three lever settings - really nothing. Is this normal?


How much do you weigh?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Junersun said:


> How much do you weigh?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


About 188 plus gear.
Put 190 in the bladder, 2 spacer neg, 1 pos, 195PSI, if that matters.


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## crimedog (Dec 29, 2014)

yo_eddie said:


> Just put a Topaz in my Banshee Spitfire and set the sag. I just noticed that I cannot feel any difference in low speed compression damping between the three lever settings - really nothing. Is this normal?


When riding or just messing around at home? The needle takes a lot of force to move back to the open position so you probably won't achieve that. Open on a Topaz is essentially no LSC so you should notice a difference.


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

crimedog said:


> When riding or just messing around at home? The needle takes a lot of force to move back to the open position so you probably won't achieve that. Open on a Topaz is essentially no LSC so you should notice a difference.


Just messed around at home. But there really is nothing like LSC damping and all three settings feel identical.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Does anyone know how the Topaz manages temperature fluctuations in the bladder? A 30-40f drop in temp could result in the air pressure going down pretty significantly. 

I was chatting with someone else about this, who suggested nitrogen instead of air from a shock pump for more consistent performance, but it got me thinking about the longevity of the bladder in fluctuating temperatures. If the temp drops the pressure enough, it could cause the bladder to collapse while riding. 

Any thoughts on this?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Adodero said:


> Does anyone know how the Topaz manages temperature fluctuations in the bladder? A 30-40f drop in temp could result in the air pressure going down pretty significantly.
> 
> I was chatting with someone else about this, who suggested nitrogen instead of air from a shock pump for more consistent performance, but it got me thinking about the longevity of the bladder in fluctuating temperatures. If the temp drops the pressure enough, it could cause the bladder to collapse while riding.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


I agree with the logic but of the temp changes 30-40 degrees during my ride, you can bet your butt my ride came to an abrupt halt. Yes, those temp changes happen where I live especially at this time of year where it's near freezing at night then warms up into the 60s or 70s. But most of us pressurize our suspension in a similar environment as we ride. I don't wait until 3am when it's 30 degrees to set my suspension up for a 3pm ride.

I like the nitrogen idea. Place the pump in a sealed bag and go for it. I bet after doing so for a while most would revert back to plain air due to the hassle.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

IRBent said:


> I agree with the logic but of the temp changes 30-40 degrees during my ride, you can bet your butt my ride came to an abrupt halt. Yes, those temp changes happen where I live especially at this time of year where it's near freezing at night then warms up into the 60s or 70s. But most of us pressurize our suspension in a similar environment as we ride. I don't wait until 3am when it's 30 degrees to set my suspension up for a 3pm ride.
> 
> I like the nitrogen idea. Place the pump in a sealed bag and go for it. I bet after doing so for a while most would revert back to plain air due to the hassle.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I was mainly interested now for similar reasons, our temps right now are wildly fluctuating. It was 70 yesterday, but will be 40 this weekend.

I guess the easiest solution is to just check the bladder pressure before riding, but it got me thinking about the possibility of using nitrogen instead.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Adodero said:


> I was mainly interested now for similar reasons, our temps right now are wildly fluctuating. It was 70 yesterday, but will be 40 this weekend.


It sounds like you live not too far away from me if you're in the U.S.

Temps here tomorrow, mid to upper 70s. Friday, mid to upper 40s.

It felt like mid 70s out last night until maybe 8pm. Bama weather at its best.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Adodero said:


> Does anyone know how the Topaz manages temperature fluctuations in the bladder? A 30-40f drop in temp could result in the air pressure going down pretty significantly.
> 
> I was chatting with someone else about this, who suggested nitrogen instead of air from a shock pump for more consistent performance, but it got me thinking about the longevity of the bladder in fluctuating temperatures. If the temp drops the pressure enough, it could cause the bladder to collapse while riding.
> 
> Any thoughts on this?


Well, air is to about 79.2% Nitrogen, that's why thermal expasion coeffiecient of air and nitrogen is about the same.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

Its is normal after full service has oil under the shock or not?
It will stop after first ride?
thanks


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

Has anybody tried to contact DVO support service lately? I did not get a response since I wrote them more than a week ago.


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Altavoz said:


> Has anybody tried to contact DVO support service lately? I did not get a response since I wrote them more than a week ago.


Yesterday. Best is to call them.


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

Double post


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

yo_eddie said:


> Yesterday. Best is to call them.


Thank you, I was hoping to get an answer by email since I live in Spain. I did get response about a month ago, but not anymore.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Altavoz said:


> Thank you, I was hoping to get an answer by email since I live in Spain. I did get response about a month ago, but not anymore.


Have you asked your tech question here yet? There used to be and may still be at least one rep for DVO that watches this board. Then too, there's quite a few very knowledgeable guys here who might be able to help.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

IRBent said:


> Have you asked your tech question here yet? There used to be and may still be at least one rep for DVO that watches this board. Then too, there's quite a few very knowledgeable guys here who might be able to help.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


No, I didn't. I was trying to figure an initial setup for my bike.

I have a `08 YT Jeffsy CF Pro and I have bought a DVO Topaz T3 Air Shock. My bike currently uses a Fox Float DPS Performance Elite EVOL (DFLG) and I weight approximately 75kg (165lbs) fully kitted. My current shock settings are 140 PSI, no token, 1 click compresión damping and 9 clicks rebound damping. I can`t get it to work as I want and that`s why I bought the Topaz. I feel it a bit harsh (even with 30 or even more SAG) and I never bottom out (I am not that aggressive). ¿Could you send me a base setup to start with? I am a bit concerned about the added complexity of bladder pressure adjustment.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

When you wrote that your current shock settings were as they are above where you referring to your topaz settings and if so what is your bladder pressure?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

IRBent said:


> When you wrote that your current shock settings were as they are above where you referring to your topaz settings and if so what is your bladder pressure?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


No, these are the settings on my Fox. I don't know where to start with the Topaz. Well, in fact (reading all the posts above) I figured out these, but I don't know if they could be ok:
* 30% SAG
* 175 Psi on the bladder
* 2 rebound clicks 
* No positive and no negative chamber tokens


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Altavoz said:


> No, these are the settings on my Fox. I don't know where to start with the Topaz. Well, in fact (reading all the posts above) I figured out these, but I don't know if they could be ok:
> * 30% SAG
> * 175 Psi on the bladder
> * 2 rebound clicks
> * No positive and no negative chamber tokens


So the reply below was started a bit ago before your most recent reply.

Now that I'm no longer driving I look back and it appears your shock settings you mentioned are those of your Fox shock since the Topaz does not have a compression knob.

Tell us more about the trails your ride, the jumps or drops, the rocks or roots, your riding style, and what kind of ride you want out of the Topaz.

For your info, I'm an older guy who used to race motocross. A part of me wants to ride hard and jump high, but my old broken up bones want my ride to be soft and plush. Not too many suspension components can give you both so most of us end up finding a happy medium, a balance between plush and capable of big jumps. I ride a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson and have done everything to my Topaz that can be done short of shim stack adjustment. I found that changing out to a lighter weight shock oil allowed the Topaz to move more freely. This allowed me to play with the tuning bands to find possibly the best configuration for my weight, trails and riding style. I seek to recall the Jeffsy has a pretty progressive shock link. If I'm right about that, I think you will need a tuning band on the negative to add support to the shock on the small stuff. Due to the high progressive linkage, you'll need to run a lower air pressure in your main can because the pressure will build up quick when you compress the shock. Finding that happy balance is so easy with the Topaz but we'll need to have a starting point. So knowing where you are now will help. If you've not tried anything yet, maybe I can at least guess at a starting point based on my experience.

Assuming you want a soft ride since you said you're not aggressive and knowing you weigh 20 pounds less than me.

After reading your most recent reply I think you're at a decent starting point. Below is what I was going to recommend.

Set the bladder @ 170psi, the absolute minimum pressure.
Put 1 tuning band in both the negative and positive chamber.
Set sag by adding pressure to the main can until you get to 30%. Then adjust your rebound so that it doesn't buck you up much when taking a crawling slow drop of 6" or so. Here in the US, dropping off a sidewalk curb to a road works well.

While your reply I'm quoting says no bands, I think you'll end up needing at least one on the negative side so you can keep the main can pressure low initially. Low initial pressure will allow you to use more suspension travel if your trails and riding style don't require full travel, an issue you mentioned having with the Fox. No matter which setup option you go with, write everything down when you set it up. Ride it more than once then report back what you like or dislike about it and we can help get you dialed in. Also know, riding the same trail with the same settings 2-3 times can result in up to 3 different opinions on how it felt. Suspension is a finicky thing with many variables. But I think we can help you find that happy balance with your Topaz.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

IRBent said:


> So the reply below was started a bit ago before your most recent reply.
> 
> Now that I'm no longer driving I look back and it appears your shock settings you mentioned are those of your Fox shock since the Topaz does not have a compression knob.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for your help. I am also a former moto (enduro) rider. I did not get to Motocross because I was afraid of the jumps. Now with my bike is the same, so I don't usually jump, nor big drops. I like going fast downhill (and don't mind loosing a bit of uphill performance) and I prefer more stable and plush than poppy.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

So I'm a little confused on the purpose of the negative bands. The DVO Giant tuning page says adding negative bands increases linearity of the air spring:

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf

OTOH, every other resources says it adds more resistance to the start of the stroke, which makes more sense to me.

Any idea which it is?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Adodero said:


> So I'm a little confused on the purpose of the negative bands. The DVO Giant tuning page says adding negative bands increases linearity of the air spring:
> 
> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf
> 
> ...


I suppose depending on the suspension platform, it could do both. If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. So less pressure in the main can means it won't ramp up as quickly as it begins to compress. The downside to that in the Topaz is there's no individual low and high speed compression or rebound adjustment knobs. Lower initial pressure could allow for packing if you hit small successive bumps really fast like chatter. Low pressure is easy to compress so the first chatter bump is ultra smooth. But that same low pressure may be so low that the shock can't rebound fully in time for maybe the 3rd or 4th chatter bump. Thus packing occurs. Open up the rebound knob until it's rebounding quick enough on the small stuff and now the high speed rebound is fast enough to kick you over the bars on a deep compression rebound. This is why I went with Red Line like water, the thinnest suspension fluid out to my knowledge. Thin oil moves through the ports faster allowing for quick short strokes in compression and rebound. It allowed me to add a click or 3 of low speed rebound (LSR), thus slowing the rebound down on the small stuff while the shim stack and ports take care of the high speed rebound (HSR). This crap is complicated enough to where I may not know what I'm talking about. If you want full on high tech details of how the low and speed adjustments work separately and how the low speed is still tied to the high speed, delve off into Steve's Tech Tuesday videos from Vorsprung. He's been my go to guy for knowledge. With that said, I've had to watch, listen, make notes and repeat just to try to figure out the logic behind this complex stuff. With his videos I've been able to get my Bronson suspension pretty dialed with one tiny thing that still occasionally an issue. My Topaz HSR is still a tad slow on bigger heavier chatter. The only way to fix that is to either add more pressure to the main can in hopes the ramp up will build a bit more pressure and help the shock rebound quicker, or to adjust the high speed rebound shim stack. There are two equal sized rebound shims meaning to modify it, I'd have to buy a shim or 3, or remove one shim and hope my rebound knob could close off enough to tame the massive change in rebound it would cause.

I hope this helps explain the cross talk DVO and Giant have out.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Altavoz said:


> Thank you very much for your help. I am also a former moto (enduro) rider. I did not get to Motocross because I was afraid of the jumps. Now with my bike is the same, so I don't usually jump, nor big drops. I like going fast downhill (and don't mind loosing a bit of uphill performance) and I prefer more stable and plush than poppy.


Try the setup I recommended or one of your own and take notes on your rides. Provide us feedback on the setup and we'll help decipher your data and personal feelings in hope that we can make you fall in love with that Topaz.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Altavoz (May 15, 2018)

IRBent said:


> Try the setup I recommended or one of your own and take notes on your rides. Provide us feedback on the setup and we'll help decipher your data and personal feelings in hope that we can make you fall in love with that Topaz.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


I will do that, thank you very much.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

TurboWolf 29er said:


> I discovered the same exact thing is you the middle O ring had came out of it's notch and was in the middle of the positive side the only thing I could think of is that we need to use more lube so it slides over the O ring easier and stays in its notch. Put all back together an it seems fine.


I have the same thing after one year and after lube service only!
now I did full service here in dealer in Greece and Im curious if that happens again in the time!


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Darksoul said:


> I have the same thing after one year and after lube service only!
> now I did full service here in dealer in Greece and Im curious if that happens again in the time!


I see this is something that happens on a regular base. Maybe an O-ring with a bit smaller inner diameter could help, so it sits tighter in the notch? Although finding one may be tricky.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

IRBent said:


> I suppose depending on the suspension platform, it could do both. If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. So less pressure in the main can means it won't ramp up as quickly as it begins to compress...


Thanks for the detailed info. I too have a new Topaz on my Giant Trance frame I'm building up and am trying to get a better understanding of that damper. Also, I'll take this opportunity to jump in and subscribe.

With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would make the shock/system _more linear_ not more progressive. (I edited/corrected that, post coffee.)

So, keeping a frame's leverage curve aside, the progressive ramp coming from an air spring seems to really kick no sooner than the last half of the stroke. Negative air springs, if I'm right on this point, primarily work on the initial part of the stroke to lessen the breakaway from seal stiction. In that early part of the travel a negative air spring probably does provide for a more linear feel as well. However, the smaller that negative air spring chamber becomes, by adding space occupying bands, the faster the negative support of that negative air spring will fall off through the stroke - and that will lead to a more progressive air spring.

I believe, and I _think_ I'm correct, that the larger the negative air spring volume, the less progressive the shock will be. That assumes the relative air pressure of two different negative sized air springs is equal at the start of the stroke. Also, while negative air springs see to level out the spring curve early on, in general, they require more air in the positive side. And that may ultimately lead to more ramp up at the very end of the stroke.

Anyway, that's the way I _think_ it works, but those ideas are very open to discussion or dispute.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Miker J said:


> With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would add to the "progressiveness" of the shock/system.


Maybe you misread or misunderstood what I wrote? You quoted me as saying,

"If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. "

I can't seem to find where I mentioned that adding a tuning band to the negative side would make your shock more progressive. However I did make right the opposite statement.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

IRBent said:


> Maybe you misread or misunderstood what I wrote? You quoted me as saying,
> 
> "If a suspension platform by design is really progressive, that means it will ramp up pressure quickly as the shock compresses. I'm sure you've read many reports that say adding a tuning band to the positive side makes the shock more progressive, right? So if the Maestro suspension ramps up quickly you essentially can make it feel more linear by adding a tuning band to the negative side. Adding one on the negative will help support you in the beginning of the stroke, which means you don't have to add as much air pressure to the main can to hold up your static weight. "
> 
> I can't seem to find where I mentioned that adding a tuning band to the negative side would make your shock more progressive. However I did make right the opposite statement.


Wow, yeah, I hadn't had my coffee yet. So, bear with me while I make one small adjustment.

The body of my post remains the same, but my initial statement _was_ backwards. It should have said....

With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would make the shock/system _more linear_ not more progressive.

I will edit that line in the original post.

Again, not saying I'm right.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Miker J said:


> With regard to what you said up there about about adding a negative band to the negative side of an air spring - I might disagree with the idea that would make the shock/system _more linear_ not more progressive.
> 
> I will edit that line in the original post.
> 
> Again, not saying I'm right.


It's all good. As I pointed out in my original post and as you apparently know, this stuff is pretty complicated. All of my ideas and opinions come from all of my years of riding MX bikes and of late, mountain bikes, coupled with things like Steve at Vorsprung teaches in his videos. Often I struggle with trying to grasp the concepts he and others teach. I'm no expert, just an old dummy equipped with some experience, a Shockwiz, and the desire to try to understand how this stuff works.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

Anyone using the Topaz T3Air with the new 2019 Bronson? if so, how do you like it on that bike? 
Im planing to replace the suspension as soon as my new Bronson comes, and the more im reading about it, im thinking to go with the Topaz instead of the Fox DPX2. 

Any thoughts, as well as some basic setting to start with will be welcome.

PS, im 60-62kg fully loaded with protection and backpack if its helping...


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

ok now understand riot frame Shock Specs – 200mm x 57mm, (22mmX8mm and 36mmX8mm hardware)
I have the cards from the box I installed!
and dvo topaz I installed has 35.2x8 bushings rear and front 22x8

In the site the 36x8 bushings doesnt exist eemmm ok I thing that 0.8mm is the problem in my situation and I have to find spacers for sure!


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Adodero said:


> So I'm a little confused on the purpose of the negative bands. The DVO Giant tuning page says adding negative bands increases linearity of the air spring:
> 
> http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/Giant-setup-guide-2.pdf
> 
> ...


I'm confused too.

I thought the purpose of the larger negative air chamber was to offset a stiffer positive spring rate, allowing the early stroke to remain sensitive and supple, while the mid and late stroke are able to soak up more force, due to the higher pressure/spring rate.

I'm having trouble trying to picture it from Giant/DVO's PoV. Only way I can interpret it is that, to them, linear = easier to use full travel, rather than being coil-like. If you're reducing the negative air volume, the negative spring's effect drops off quicker/sooner, since it runs out of air and starts to turn into a vacuum. Can't think of it any other way than it making the spring curve more "hammock-like", reducing mid-stroke support and making it so you hit sag with less pressure since the early part of the spring is stiffer. It's like going back to an EVOL, from a Vorsprung Corset.








- note the slope of the lines. Flat = plush. Steep = spiky. Fox opts for a spiky feel off the top, in exchange for a higher ride height and plush stroke at sag.

If you tune according to ability to use full travel, rather than by sag, the more coil-like Corset will have to run a lot more sag than EVOL, having a much more supple early stroke. If you tuned both according to an arbitrary sag % (30%) for your body weight, the corset will take much more force to bottom out. This suggests that coil-like springs are harder to bottom out *if tuning by sag*. This is presuming that Corset is like having no volume spacers in the Topaz's negative chamber. I suppose if you want to ride higher in your travel (20-25% sag), yet want to use full travel, and you are a less fast/skilled rider, then pop those spacers into the negative side. These types probably like that plush mid stroke you get with a hammock-curve anyways, as opposed to the fast plowing riders that need firm mid-stroke support (coil, or larger negative)... probably a marketing strategy to cash in on linear being more universally desirable.

Here's an air spring curve difference from Cane Creek and their LinEair upgrade:








- end stroke has the same slope, but the old spring has a flat sloped section by sag that takes little total force to go through. This can mean plushness, pedal bob, or wallow depending on how you look at it, but the result is that the shock's easier to bottom out and is spiky off the top. LinEair is just more consistent, with less spike, and less wasted travel (wallow/plushness and bob), trading perceived comfort/squishiness for efficiency and performance.

DVO is allowing you to choose Corset, LinEair (which prob sits between corset and evol), Evol, and classic spring curves, on top of being sensitive (low friction), and user serviceable. Wish I got one instead of a CC DBair CS. xD


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Darksoul said:


> ok now understand riot frame Shock Specs - 200mm x 57mm, (22mmX8mm and 36mmX8mm hardware)
> I have the cards from the box I installed!
> and dvo topaz I installed has 35.2x8 bushings rear and front 22x8
> 
> In the site the 36x8 bushings doesnt exist eemmm ok I thing that 0.8mm is the problem in my situation and I have to find spacers for sure!


It's certainly possible, though I have been using the 35.2mm hardware with no issues on the lower mount. It almost sounds like DVO's hardware might run on the narrower side, which might not jive well with some Riots? Universal Cycles actually has some 35.99mm hardware, if you can get it in Greece it might be a good option:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=76427


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## InJ3cted (Apr 15, 2008)

Removed. Contacted DVO and they were very helpful


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

ninjichor said:


> I'm confused too.
> 
> I thought the purpose of the larger negative air chamber was to offset a stiffer positive spring rate, allowing the early stroke to remain sensitive and supple, while the mid and late stroke are able to soak up more force, due to the higher pressure/spring rate.
> 
> ...


I reckon you've got it about right. 
An early DVO explanation for the benefit of reducing the size of the negative chamber was for very progressive leverage frames, where the reduced neg chamber allowed you to reduce positive pressure for the same sag and utilise more of the travel on big hits.

I've had a Topaz since they first came out and have been tinkering with the spring curve heaps. It's one of the strengths of the shock, as you've mentioned. I'm trying to (as many are) balance suppleness, mid stroke support and bottom out. The issue is I'm doing bigger drops these days (~2 metres with flatish transitions) and I have an HD3 which doesn't have enough progression for the riding I'm doing. So I've ended up with the max spacers in the positive (6) for bottom out, none in the negative, for initial suppleness, with lots of positive main air pressure to give mid and end stroke support. Currently playing around with different damper oils, rather than reshimming, to ensure it doesn't blow through the travel too quickly or alternatively start riding harshly on high speed impacts. I like tinkering, so all is good.


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Anyone else finding the Topaz HSR to be a bit overdamped and have any suggested changes?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Adodero said:


> Anyone else finding the Topaz HSR to be a bit overdamped and have any suggested changes?


There's only two possible solutions, shim stack adjustment or thinner oil. Oil is an easy thing to change. But there's only two identical shims on the rebound and taking one out, as was suggested to me by DVO, would theoretically cut damping in half. I opted to change the oil to Red Line Like Water and it helped a lot. I occasionally still get a bit of packing on heavy back to back bumps, roots and rocks though.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

IRBent said:


> There's only two possible solutions, shim stack adjustment or thinner oil. Oil is an easy thing to change. But there's only two identical shims on the rebound and taking one out, as was suggested to me by DVO, would theoretically cut damping in half. I opted to change the oil to Red Line Like Water and it helped a lot. I occasionally still get a bit of packing on heavy back to back bumps, roots and rocks though.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


What bike/rider weight?

I don't think I noticed how overdamped the rebound was until I swapped back from my Coil IL, it seems to pack up a fair bit more and lack the responsiveness that I had that set up with.

What did the Red Line do to your compression damping?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Adodero said:


> What bike/rider weight?
> 
> I don't think I noticed how overdamped the rebound was until I swapped back from my Coil IL, it seems to pack up a fair bit more and lack the responsiveness that I had that set up with.
> 
> What did the Red Line do to your compression damping?


When I was riding my ready to ride weight was about 180lbs with backpack on. I'm riding a 2015 Santa Cruz Bronson, small frame. As for compression, if memory serves me correctly, it allowed me to make the initial travel more plush and active/reactive. But since the fluid moved easier through the ports I had to add a shim in the positive side to keep from moving through the travel and bottoming out. While that might not be everybody's preferred feel, I was looking for a soft cushy ride and a quick ramp up.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

You could also modify your midvalve to allow more oil to pass through quicker.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

All great info, thanks folks!


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## gfourth (Apr 12, 2009)

Adodero said:


> What bike/rider weight?
> 
> I don't think I noticed how overdamped the rebound was until I swapped back from my Coil IL, it seems to pack up a fair bit more and lack the responsiveness that I had that set up with.


I know there are plenty of other variables but how do you like the Coil IL compared to the topaz? Love my topaz but been debating adding a Coil IL to the mix.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

My HSR was also over dampened. I made too many changes at one time buy going to "like water" and pulling a shim. When I did another change to like water and put the shim back in I was more in the middle of the adjustment.

I haven't had my Topaz on in a while as I'v either been on my hard tail or using he Jade coil on my FS bike.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> My HSR was also over dampened. I made too many changes at one time buy going to "like water" and pulling a shim. When I did another change to like water and put the shim back in I was more in the middle of the adjustment.
> 
> I haven't had my Topaz on in a while as I'v either been on my hard tail or using he Jade coil on my FS bike.


So, in your opinion is like water and both HSR shims in a better option that a heavier oil and a single shim?

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

IRBent said:


> So, in your opinion is like water and both HSR shims in a better option that a heavier oil and a single shim?
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


For me yes. I wanted to be in the middle of the external adjustment.

I went back to the stock stack and like water. I felt it as a smaller step than shim stack mods. I was trying to take baby steps toward what I wanted and the lighter oil with the stock stack gave me that. Now if I needed more PSI in the spring I may feel the need to go back to the 2.5wt stock oil.

I have gained some weight (wings and nachos) over winter so the shock may need some more tuning when I get back on it this summer.

But TBH I'm so happy with the Jade coil I may not go back to air on my current ride.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

terrible said:


> For me yes. I wanted to be in the middle of the external adjustment.
> 
> I went back to the stock stack and like water. I felt it as a smaller step than shim stack mods. I was trying to take baby steps toward what I wanted and the lighter oil with the stock stack gave me that. Now if I needed more PSI in the spring I may feel the need to go back to the 2.5wt stock oil.
> 
> ...


What are you riding and how much do you weigh? I've lost weight, 15+ pounds and haven't ridden much since last summer. The last month or so I've been bouncing around 160 pounds, riding a 2015 Bronson. I'm in my 50's and used to ride MX so a part of me loves to ride ride hard and fast, but my old bones prefer a smooth ride. My local trail system isn't full of big jumps or drops either, so I can get away with a lighter tune.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

Thanks for the info, again!

Is there any particular reason you couldn't use a thinner shim in place of removing one altogether?



gfourth said:


> I know there are plenty of other variables but how do you like the Coil IL compared to the topaz? Love my topaz but been debating adding a Coil IL to the mix.


I like it a lot and am trying to decide which one I want to keep on my bike. To add to the Cane Creek, they are local to me.

I'd say they are about as smooth as each other, but the CC obviously has more adjustments available and I feel like it's more responsive. The HSR and HSC on the Topaz is a bit overdamped IMO and I'm a heavier rider at 220lbs geared up, so I can imagine lighter riders have more issues than I do even.

The time it's the most noticeable for me is when I really press into the bike and try to unweight, the CC seems to respond a lot quicker and press into me, whereas the Topaz just feels kindof dead.

I may try the Air IL and see how that pans out.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Adodero said:


> Is there any particular reason you couldn't use a thinner shim in place of removing one altogether?


I may do this. I will try Like Water first. I bought a bunch of shims so I could experiment. My Topaz is in pieces waiting for a rebuild. I will go to Like Water and an extra shim on the compression stack. I want a wider range on the climb/open switch and this will give me that. I doubt I'll need to go with a thinner shim. Ronnie never suggested that in the conversations I've had about making my tune less aggressive.


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Doug said:


> I may do this. I will try Like Water first. I bought a bunch of shims so I could experiment. My Topaz is in pieces waiting for a rebuild. I will go to Like Water and an extra shim on the compression stack. I want a wider range on the climb/open switch and this will give me that. I doubt I'll need to go with a thinner shim. Ronnie never suggested that in the conversations I've had about making my tune less aggressive.


My memory sucks but I think there's simply not a thinner shim available for the HS rebound stack. I want to say it's 16mm in O.D. and has a 10mm I.D. That only leaves 3mm of metal around the perimeter of hole.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

yo_eddie said:


> How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?


Most people say that there's not much difference between the three.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

yo_eddie said:


> How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?


There's a huge difference between my settings (second Topaz)... clearly a firmness felt, although I've heard other's haven't felt much.

The climb setting on current bike/shock definitely holds the bike higher in travel. I'll be at the top of a climb parked and sitting on a dropped saddle then flip the switch to open and feel the shock relax into deeper sag.


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## gfourth (Apr 12, 2009)

Everyone seems to have different results (especially considering your frame kinematics). My experience is that I call it the "mental switch". I do feel it makes a difference, albeit subtle. I interpret it as it still sinks to your sag position and firms up from there for medium/firm. I like that it sags and retains the intended geo of the bike... That being said my bike has the perfect amount of anti-squat and pedals great in any of the three modes.


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

EatsDirt said:


> There's a huge difference between my settings (second Topaz)... clearly a firmness felt, although I've heard other's haven't felt much.
> 
> The climb setting on current bike/shock definitely holds the bike higher in travel. I'll be at the top of a climb parked and sitting on a dropped saddle then flip the switch to open and feel the shock relax into deeper sag.


With my Topaz I have exactly this effect with the firm setting, but absolutely no difference between open and medium. So basically I don't even know wether it runs in open or medium mode.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

IRBent said:


> What are you riding and how much do you weigh? I've lost weight, 15+ pounds and haven't ridden much since last summer. The last month or so I've been bouncing around 160 pounds, riding a 2015 Bronson. I'm in my 50's and used to ride MX so a part of me loves to ride ride hard and fast, but my old bones prefer a smooth ride. My local trail system isn't full of big jumps or drops either, so I can get away with a lighter tune.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


My topaz and jade are both swapped around on my '17 Niner rip RDO. I had the topaz on my wfo and really liked it and when I picked up my Rip I was happy that both bikes used the same shock size. After going to a fox SLS spring my jade is really a no-compromise coil shock so I keep the topaz in it's nice box for tinkering days.

I'm probably 190# right now geared up.


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## goobak (Jan 21, 2019)

yo_eddie said:


> How do you think does the compression switch work on the Topaz? Are there noticable differences / steps between the three settings?


On my Rocky Mountain Altitude 2016 the positions are very noticeable.


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Thanks to all for your replies :thumbsup:


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## gfourth (Apr 12, 2009)

Any advice for tuning the topaz to be more "poppy"? would that be mid stroke support?

I'm 145 pounds, lighter rider on a simple single pivot 140mm rear travel bike that I would assume is more linear. Topaz T3 210x55 with no volume spacers- 150-155psi for 30% sag, rebound completely open, 170psi in bladder. I really like the small bump sensitivity, traction and linear feel. I could possibly be utilizing full travel a little more often. It's almost too 'coil-like'; I push into it for jumps, pop-offs and get nothing back. I'd like to preserve the small bump, the linear feel, but have a little more pop. I was thinking of either:

- slightly upping the pressure in the air bladder to 175-180
- trying a volume spacer in the neg chamber
- maybe I'm just too light and I need re-shim? is this the 'over-damped' feel that some people have talked about?

Thanks!


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## n1cholasj (Nov 23, 2017)

Really stupid question, but I haven't been able to yet find an answer. Is "full open" all the way to positive or negative?


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## gfourth (Apr 12, 2009)

I used to get confused with this all the time. On a fork/shock you'll see "- Rebound +". Confusing because it's short for Rebound Damping. Plus (clockwise, tightened all the way down) is fully damped = slowest rebound. Minus (counter clockwise, opened all the way up) has no damping and the fastest rebound. 

I like how Rockshox uses a bunny for "-", and a turtle for "+"


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

gfourth said:


> Any advice for tuning the topaz to be more "poppy"? would that be mid stroke support?
> 
> I'm 145 pounds, lighter rider on a simple single pivot 140mm rear travel bike that I would assume is more linear. Topaz T3 210x55 with no volume spacers- 150-155psi for 30% sag, rebound completely open, 170psi in bladder. I really like the small bump sensitivity, traction and linear feel. I could possibly be utilizing full travel a little more often. It's almost too 'coil-like'; I push into it for jumps, pop-offs and get nothing back. I'd like to preserve the small bump, the linear feel, but have a little more pop. I was thinking of either:
> 
> ...


To get more pop you will indeed need more pressure or less restriction. To get leas restriction either a shim mod or a lighter weight oil will be needed. Your current plan of upping the pressure and adding a negative tuning band will probably cause two things. The extra pressure and the negative band will both lower your sag to maybe only 20%. The extra pressure will keep you from using full travel if you're not already bottoming out. Typically a negative band adds initial support and allows you to lower your main can pressure.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

n1cholasj said:


> Really stupid question, but I haven't been able to yet find an answer. Is "full open" all the way to positive or negative?


Try to imagine the rebound knob like a faucet. The more you turn in counterclockwise the more flow you get. More flow allows the fluid to rush through the port faster thus rebound is faster. Clockwise closes the valve and port, slowing the flow or rebound down.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

gfourth said:


> Any advice for tuning the topaz to be more "poppy"? would that be mid stroke support?
> 
> I'm 145 pounds, lighter rider on a simple single pivot 140mm rear travel bike that I would assume is more linear. Topaz T3 210x55 with no volume spacers- 150-155psi for 30% sag, rebound completely open, 170psi in bladder. I really like the small bump sensitivity, traction and linear feel. I could possibly be utilizing full travel a little more often. It's almost too 'coil-like'; I push into it for jumps, pop-offs and get nothing back. I'd like to preserve the small bump, the linear feel, but have a little more pop. I was thinking of either:
> 
> ...


I'd start by adjusting what you can, rebound. Sometimes too much rebound will make things feel "composed" as oppose to "poppy".

You could also up the bladder pressure which will affect both compression and rebound.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I have a few rides under my belt now with my topaz. The bike is a transition sentinel.i started with 2 bands in the POS and 1 in the NEG. it felt a bit harsh and dead so I switched to one in the positive. I have about 180 psi in the bladder.
I’m about 215lbs. 
With the one band it feels better but still a bit harsh and overdamped. 
Any advice?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

cYbernation said:


> I have a few rides under my belt now with my topaz. The bike is a transition sentinel.i started with 2 bands in the POS and 1 in the NEG. it felt a bit harsh and dead so I switched to one in the positive. I have about 180 psi in the bladder.
> I'm about 215lbs.
> With the one band it feels better but still a bit harsh and overdamped.
> Any advice?


What's your bladder pressure at?

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## IRBent (May 11, 2015)

Junersun said:


> What's your bladder pressure at?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my first question when I saw his post. Then I read it again. He plainly stated his bladder pressure is 180psi. But he never said what his main can pressure was. One of the two is most likely the issue unless it's linkage or bearing related and simply can't move freely.

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

cYbernation said:


> I have a few rides under my belt now with my topaz. The bike is a transition sentinel.i started with 2 bands in the POS and 1 in the NEG. it felt a bit harsh and dead so I switched to one in the positive. I have about 180 psi in the bladder.
> I'm about 215lbs.
> With the one band it feels better but still a bit harsh and overdamped.
> Any advice?


I'd loose some main can pressure, that might help with harshness. . And add some to bladder, that should make it more playful. Not sure about sentinel progressiveness though. Did you still leave 1 in negative? That will help with initial plushness. 
Maybe try around 215 main, and 195 bladder.

I recently went from 230 to 225 in main, and 190 to 195 in bladder. (Jeffsy 29 and 220 lbs Pilot) I have no bands at all. Not bottoming out. 
it was feeling bit harsh on fast bumps but wallowy when pedaling. Those small adjustments made it a lot better

im still experimenting and learning though.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

scoobiemario said:


> I'd loose some main can pressure, that might help with harshness. . And add some to bladder, that should make it more playful. Not sure about sentinel progressiveness though. Did you still leave 1 in negative? That will help with initial plushness.
> Maybe try around 215 main, and 195 bladder.
> 
> I recently went from 230 to 225 in main, and 190 to 195 in bladder. (Jeffsy 29 and 220 lbs Pilot) I have no bands at all. Not bottoming out.
> ...


Good catch. I'm a little puzzled about over damped comment though. I'm on a patrol and I had to get it reshimmed to get where I wanted (I weigh 220 lbs).

Now I'm running no bands though. 200 bladder and 185 ish main chamber....

To each their own. I like scoobies advise.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

IRBent said:


> That was my first question when I saw his post. Then I read it again. He plainly stated his bladder pressure is 180psi. But he never said what his main can pressure was. One of the two is most likely the issue unless it's linkage or bearing related and simply can't move freely.
> 
> Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk


Sorry, it's 220 in the main.


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

scoobiemario said:


> I'd loose some main can pressure, that might help with harshness. . And add some to bladder, that should make it more playful. Not sure about sentinel progressiveness though. Did you still leave 1 in negative? That will help with initial plushness.
> Maybe try around 215 main, and 195 bladder.
> 
> I recently went from 230 to 225 in main, and 190 to 195 in bladder. (Jeffsy 29 and 220 lbs Pilot) I have no bands at all. Not bottoming out.
> ...


I removed the band in the negative chamber


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## gramboh (Nov 7, 2018)

EatsDirt said:


> There's a huge difference between my settings (second Topaz)... clearly a firmness felt, although I've heard other's haven't felt much.
> 
> The climb setting on current bike/shock definitely holds the bike higher in travel. I'll be at the top of a climb parked and sitting on a dropped saddle then flip the switch to open and feel the shock relax into deeper sag.


Isn't the 3-way switch on the Topaz just an LSC adjuster? If so, sag shouldn't be impacted by the switch/LSC, it's just damping for when the shock is being compressed (so in motion), once you are at an equilibrium (sag) it's purely just the spring/air pressure that matters?


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## Legoman (Apr 7, 2014)

Ok, just got my DVO Topaz, and I think I may have screwed it up already.  I went to install some spacers, I let all the air out, and for some reason thought you needed to twist the air can off to add them, instead of just sliding it off like you are supposed to. So of course I actually opened the main internals vs just the air spacer part. So now it's fully extended, it's kinda hard to compress, even with no air. Did I just majorly screw it up before I even got to ride it?


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## rodzilla (Jul 11, 2016)

Legoman said:


> Ok, just got my DVO Topaz, and I think I may have screwed it up already.  I went to install some spacers, I let all the air out, and for some reason thought you needed to twist the air can off to add them, instead of just sliding it off like you are supposed to. So of course I actually opened the main internals vs just the air spacer part. So now it's fully extended, it's kinda hard to compress, even with no air. Did I just majorly screw it up before I even got to ride it?


You shouldn't have done any permanent damage. This has happened to me a couple of times, I just make sure to tighten everything back up. If you can put the shock back on your bike that should allow you to compress the shock. Try that out and see if it helps.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

You need to take out all air again and press the bike down to travel the shock as much as you can, you might hear a pop. Pump it up to 50 psi and travel the shock again, then pump it up to 100 and do the same thing. Repeat every 50 psi until you reach your desired psi. You won't be able to push it all the way through the travel the last time but actually 30% should be enough. There are two chambers, a negative an a positive. By compressing the shock you let air into the negative chamber or else it will get stuck like this. If this does not work it's probably just because you have slick honey covering the port between the chambers. Everytime you fill your shock or fork you need to do this procedure or else it will get stuck. I don't think is broken🙂


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## Legoman (Apr 7, 2014)

Awesome! Thanks for the info everyone!


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## wilda81 (Oct 11, 2016)

FastBanana said:


> In case anyone is interested, the 50, and 57mm stroke shocks, are physically the same. Just a addition/removal of a nylon spacer converts it. Confirmed by a DVO tech, just figured it may help someone out.
> 
> That said, a custom stroke between 50 and 57, is totally possible with some sanding, or a 3D printer.


Spacer is inside of the air chamber or ...?


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## Adodero (Jul 16, 2009)

wilda81 said:


> Spacer is inside of the air chamber or ...?


Yes, it's the same with the 210x50 / 210x55 shocks.

You unthread the entire aircan (not the portion that you remove to get to the progression spacers) and you'll expose the air piston, on top of that you should see a nylon spacer that is clipped onto the air shaft. You can remove it to increase the stroke of the shock.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Late last year I posted about a shim stack mod to make the climb switch more effective. I finally got around to that. I added 2 15x0.2mm shims to the damper in the reservoir (there are already 2 there). 

Wow, what a difference. It is definitely a hard platform now. With no air in the main can the shock barely moves when I lean my weight onto the seat. Give it a good bump (HSC type action) and it smoothly moves through the travel. 

The Mid and Open position seem unaffected by this. So it feels much more like:

Climb: Very firm, nearly a lockout for typical climbing/pedaling forces
Middle: No platform, moves under pedaling forces.
Open: Very open and affected by pedaling forces. Feels the same.

I did switch to "Like Water" fluid from the mix of Light and 5wt. However despite much lighter fluid, the shim mod still had a drastic impact on the LSC behavior. 

I would say this is a great mod for anyone who rides a lot of fire road climbs or fast groomed trails. It is pretty easy. I did it in the course of a full rebuild, but you could:
-remove the air
-drain fluid
-open recevoir
-remove reservoir
-remove damper unit
-remove nut at the end
-add shims
-put it back together
-bleed it (add oil after you re-assemble, don't follow the instructions which say to add oil to reservoir before putting the bladder in, per Ronnies tips)


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

Hey guys, I‘ve tried to install a spacer in the pos chamber on my two weeks old topaz. When pumping the shock back to the previous 200 psi, I wasn’t able to compress the shock, so I let the air out again and followed the steps as described above- with no success. I‘ve just removed the outer can again and I‘ve seen that one of these o rings is damaged (the one at the bottom, not the outer one), though I used a fair amount of slick honey. This is so annoying- do I really have to order the service kit for 47€ now?


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

aenduro said:


> Hey guys, I've tried to install a spacer in the pos chamber on my two weeks old topaz. When pumping the shock back to the previous 200 psi, I wasn't able to compress the shock, so I let the air out again and followed the steps as described above- with no success. I've just removed the outer can again and I've seen that one of these o rings is damaged (the one at the bottom, not the outer one), though I used a fair amount of slick honey. This is so annoying- do I really have to order the service kit for 47€ now?


My unofficial and "use at your own risk" tip is that you can use the sag ring instead of one of those in the air can. Its small and thick but by the time you stretch it to fit there it will be perfect. Used to run my topaz like that for couple of months after similar accident to yours. 
Then I ordered different size/thickness/hardness of o-rings from local manufacturer.. to varying degree of success... In the end I have ordered the set of seals and have been very carefull with removing/installing the air can.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

akantus178 said:


> My unofficial and "use at your own risk" tip is that you can use the sag ring instead of one of those in the air can. Its small and thick but by the time you stretch it to fit there it will be perfect. Used to run my topaz like that for couple of months after similar accident to yours.
> Then I ordered different size/thickness/hardness of o-rings from local manufacturer.. to varying degree of success... In the end I have ordered the set of seals and have been very carefull with removing/installing the air can.
> 
> Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


Thanks! Guess I'll bite the bullet and order the service kit - sooner or later I'll have to do a service anyway.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

akantus178 said:


> Then I ordered different size/thickness/hardness of o-rings from local manufacturer.. to varying degree of success...


I am looking at the pile of o rings thinking they have to be common sizes sourced elsewhere. I've not found anything either but am looking.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

Does anybody here have some insight on what the "custom light tune" exactly is, which DVO offers the shock to ship with for lighter riders? I weigh around 132lbs without riding kit (60kg), but not living in the US I couldn't take their offer to get a shock with that tune already set up.

Is it just a different shim stack, or is there more to it? I wanted to get my shock serviced in the near future, and it would be a good opportunity to also get it adapted to my weight.
Unfortunately DVO hasn't responded to my in total three E-mails over the course of roughly one year asking about this custom light tune, despite being very helpful during my initial setup. They've just gone completely silent.


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

sp00n82 said:


> Does anybody here have some insight on what the "custom light tune" exactly is, which DVO offers the shock to ship with for lighter riders? I weigh around 132lbs without riding kit (60kg), but not living in the US I couldn't take their offer to get a shock with that tune already set up.
> 
> Is it just a different shim stack, or is there more to it? I wanted to get my shock serviced in the near future, and it would be a good opportunity to also get it adapted to my weight.
> Unfortunately DVO hasn't responded to my in total three E-mails over the course of roughly one year asking about this custom light tune, despite being very helpful during my initial setup. They've just gone completely silent.


Give them a call.

Emails don't always get to their final destination.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Hangtime said:


> I'm about your size geared up. Last year I was at Crankworx Whistler and the DVO guys did a quick tune on my Topaz. I'm running similar air PSI and one spacer in the positive chamber. I'm getting almost all of the travel, ring is right the end most rides. I'm not taking huge jumps either. It's super plush. Bike set up is a Banshee Spitfire w/Fox 36(160mm)


How did they set up the shock? Did they change the shimstack? 
Currently I am trying to find a good way between wallowy and sensitivity. Quite a few variables in this game. 
Spitfire here, too.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

yo_eddie said:


> Currently I am trying to find a good way between wallowy and sensitivity. Quite a few variables in this game.
> Spitfire here, too.


I have a VPP2 bike which are known to be wallowy. I have two bands in the negative, 185psi is the reservoir, 205 in the main. That worked well. I then added a enduro roller bearing and that really made it much more reactive off the top. Drop the wheel and it hardly bounces like it would before. Give it a more coil like feel.

Recently I wanted a firmer climb mode. I talked to Ronnie and he said to add two more shims to the damper in the reservoir. (See post a week or two back) that really made it firm under lsc. Great for climbing and chassis control. It was still active enough that when riding some easy root covered trails it felt good. Move to open and it is it's nirmal super active open self. This shin mod essentially adds a platform to the curve. Maybe not what you want but an option.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Has anyone been running the Topaz's compression lever in the middle position for daily riding? I've been looking to add more support to my Topaz, maybe with a bit more LSC. I've seen some posts in this thread saying that running the compression lever in the full open position bypasses the LSC shims. If that's true, I might try running the shock in the middle setting for the extra low speed support.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> Has anyone been running the Topaz's compression lever in the middle position for daily riding? I've been looking to add more support to my Topaz, maybe with a bit more LSC. I've seen some posts in this thread saying that running the compression lever in the full open position bypasses the LSC shims. If that's true, I might try running the shock in the middle setting for the extra low speed support.


Yes, open is fully open. I rode mine in the middle position fairly often. I've now added more shims so the climb position is a strong platform and the middle position is still active but has a stronger platform than before. Open is unchanged. I also went to redline like water fluid.

It supports pedaling well, good in turns, and yet doesn't hang up on roots and rocks when going up or down.


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## stonant (Mar 11, 2016)

I ride in middle position most of the time. My trails are NE singletrack. I only go fully open when I have a descent ~2 min or longer ahead of me where I need to open my bike up (130mm rear travel).


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Would you guys say the shock works better on long descents in the open mode vs the middle mode? I was hoping that due to the lever only affecting low speed compression the middle setting would not affect high speed descending.

I also was wondering if anyone in the 170-190lb could share their rebound settings. I know optimal rebound varies a bit between suspension designs, but I've been having some difficulty getting the rebound dialed on my Canfield Riot, and was wondering if I was in the same ballpark as others around my weight (180lb). 

I've been running between 5-6 clicks out from full slow (clockwise). At 5 clicks the shock does slow, tech climbing better, but I feel that some of the harshness I feel during high speed descending might be due to the shock packing up. At 6 clicks the shock is much less planted when traversing obstacles at low speed, but feels a bit better during fast descents. 

I feel that my air can and bladder PSI is alright (200psi or so in the can, making small adjustments to get 28% sag, and 180-185psi in the bladder) and am not running any bands in order to get the largest possible air can. 

Thanks for the help.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> Would you guys say the shock works better on long descents in the open mode vs the middle mode? I was hoping that due to the lever only affecting low speed compression the middle setting would not affect high speed descending.
> 
> I also was wondering if anyone in the 170-190lb could share their rebound settings. I know optimal rebound varies a bit between suspension designs, but I've been having some difficulty getting the rebound dialed on my Canfield Riot, and was wondering if I was in the same ballpark as others around my weight (180lb).
> 
> ...


I'm 190-195 on bike (2013 Tallboy LTC) and run very similar settings:
-205PSI in can
-185PSI in reservoir
-5/6 rebound
-2 bands in negative

A few mods I've made:
-I am using Like Water fluid, that really makes it more active initially and through the travel.
-I have a RWC roller bearing in the lower pivot. That really reduced the initial break away force of the shock. The Topaz is already low stiction, but this makes it more like a coil than an air shock
-2 more shims on LSC circuit for a much stronger platform

The first two of those help greatly with low speed traverses and climbing. Here in NY rocks and roots are all over. The low break away force helps with traction on climbs. I often climb those technical sections with the shock in the open position. It bobs more, but doesn't hang up the rear wheel on the rocks and roots.

I also added two shims to the LSC loader in the reservoir per Ronnies suggestion. It makes the climb mode very firm and the middle mode more firm. Open mode feels exactly the same. On smoother sections (up or down) this mod helps take out much of the wallow of the VPP2 design. On a VPP3, DW Link, or other more refined platform I may not need to do this or perhaps just one extra shim.

My current conditions are not typical for a DVO design. They are tuned for fast big chunky stuff. Here in NY the trails are much slower with small chunk, rocks and roots. I wanted to experiment with different tunes and fluids. So far I like the LW for its ability to help the rear wheel not hang up on roots. I like the extra shims to take out some wallow yet still ride smooth on the rough stuff.

I now look at it like this:
Open - really rocky and Rooty trails
middle - general all around riding
closed - smooth groomed trails, park riding (berms and jumps)

Its the terrain that dictates what mode now, not so much the grade up/down.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Doug said:


> I'm 190-195 on bike (2013 Tallboy LTC) and run very similar settings:
> -205PSI in can
> -185PSI in reservoir
> -5/6 rebound
> ...


I am a similar weight and am running similar settings to you on my 2015 Nomad, but I do not run any negative spacers.

I am interested in why you run negative spacers? Is it to reduce pedal bob? 
With the VPP on the Nomad I assumed that as it requires more force in the initial part of travel I would be better off running it with no negative bands for plushness off the top, but I am confused by negative bands as a whole. 
Did Ronnie suggest this?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

MsvSpaz said:


> I am a similar weight and am running similar settings to you on my 2015 Nomad, but I do not run any negative spacers.
> 
> I am interested in why you run negative spacers? Is it to reduce pedal bob?
> With the VPP on the Nomad I assumed that as it requires more force in the initial part of travel I would be better off running it with no negative bands for plushness off the top, but I am confused by negative bands as a whole.
> Did Ronnie suggest this?


Negative bands help provide more mid-stroke support. Another crutch for the VPP2 design to lean on.

Think of the negative air chamber as a "help" to compress the shock. If your air can pressure is 200PSI it is 200PSI in both the positive and negative chamber. That means you have a small 200PSI air spring trying to compress the shock. However the 200PSI positive chamber resists this so it doesn't move. When you add external force (sitting on bike, bump, etc) the negative spring + external force win and the shock compresses. The negative spring makes the force needed to initiate compression much less and coil like. However as it compresses the volume gets bigger so the pressure drops. With this pressure drop the help it provides drops until it does nothing.

Adding volume spacers maintains the initial off the top plushness. The negative spring still helps reduce the force needed to compress the shock. However with a reduced volume how deep into travel it helps is reduced. So by mid stroke the negative spring isn't helping compress the shock and it takes more external force to compress it.

Since the VPP2 has somewhat wallowy mid stroke, I opted for two spacers to minimize how much help the negative spring provided in the mid-stroke.

This may also help:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/Tech-Tuesday-negative-spring-air-shocks-2012.html

That goes into more about rebound, which is also helped greatly with a negative spring.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Doug said:


> Negative bands help provide more mid-stroke support. Another crutch for the VPP2 design to lean on.
> 
> Think of the negative air chamber as a "help" to compress the shock. If your air can pressure is 200PSI it is 200PSI in both the positive and negative chamber. That means you have a small 200PSI air spring trying to compress the shock. However the 200PSI positive chamber resists this so it doesn't move. When you add external force (sitting on bike, bump, etc) the negative spring + external force win and the shock compresses. The negative spring makes the force needed to initiate compression much less and coil like. However as it compresses the volume gets bigger so the pressure drops. With this pressure drop the help it provides drops until it does nothing.
> 
> ...


Yeah I totally understand the function of the negative chamber, but could never get my head around the function of reducing the volume on the negative side.

Your statement above "Adding volume spacers maintains etc.." has been the first piece of information that has given me a better understanding. Cheers for that.

I emailed DVO some time ago and they never suggested reducing the negative chamber volume, which seems odd, but maybe they were having an off/busy day.. it happens.

I might chuck a couple of spacers in there tonight. I did have one in the negative some time ago, but when i removed it I did not notice much difference so just left them out. Maybe I should try a couple.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

MsvSpaz said:


> Yeah I totally understand the function of the negative chamber, but could never get my head around the function of reducing the volume on the negative side.
> 
> Your statement above "Adding volume spacers maintains etc.." has been the first piece of information that has given me a better understanding. Cheers for that.
> 
> ...


What are you trying to improve? If the off the top plushness/break away force, a roller bearing is the best solution I've found. DVO doesn't like them because they develop play, but mine has been great. going on three years. Before the roller bearing if I dropped the rear wheel it would bounce a few times. Now if I drop it it will bounce once and just slightly. It behaves much more like a coil shock which when dropped has no bounce (usually).

Lighter oil wold also work. Like Water is what I use and Ronnie strongly recommends for anyone wanting more plushness (but it will reduce compression damping somewhat).

Emailing DVO doesn't get the best answers. Calling always gets me much more detailed answers, questions about my unique situation, and custom recommendations. Ronnie is of course the best guy to talk to. If you start asking harder questions they will hand you off to Ronnie if he is around.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Doug said:


> What are you trying to improve? If the off the top plushness/break away force, a roller bearing is the best solution I've found. DVO doesn't like them because they develop play, but mine has been great. going on three years. Before the roller bearing if I dropped the rear wheel it would bounce a few times. Now if I drop it it will bounce once and just slightly. It behaves much more like a coil shock which when dropped has no bounce (usually).
> 
> Lighter oil wold also work. Like Water is what I use and Ronnie strongly recommends for anyone wanting more plushness (but it will reduce compression damping somewhat).
> 
> Emailing DVO doesn't get the best answers. Calling always gets me much more detailed answers, questions about my unique situation, and custom recommendations. Ronnie is of course the best guy to talk to. If you start asking harder questions they will hand you off to Ronnie if he is around.


Am already running a roller bearing in the rear eyelet.

Trying to keep it plush off the top and also maybe reduce midstroke wallow, but only a little. 
I am only noticing the wallow when pumping on undulating terrain.

Might have a crack at an oil change when I next service.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

MsvSpaz said:


> Am already running a roller bearing in the rear eyelet.
> 
> Trying to keep it plush off the top and also maybe reduce midstroke wallow, but only a little.
> I am only noticing the wallow when pumping on undulating terrain.
> ...


Like water and one more shim on the LSC stack (6mm ID, 15mm, 0.2mm thick) is what I would try. Increases the plushness off then top a bit with the 2WT fluid and the shims help bump up LSC for things like pedaling and body movement.


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## gfourth (Apr 12, 2009)

MsvSpaz said:


> Am already running a roller bearing in the rear eyelet.
> 
> Trying to keep it plush off the top and also maybe reduce midstroke wallow, but only a little.
> I am only noticing the wallow when pumping on undulating terrain.
> ...


Have you tried upping the spring rate?

I've noticed quite the differences in tuning approaches for coil vs. air. With coil you have to try 2-3 different springs in noticeable +/- 12%, 25% increments before the dials make any noticeable difference, before the tech on the phone or the dude on the keyboard will make any further tuning suggestions. They all feel shitty until you find the right rate, couple clicks here and there, and boom- heaven.

With air, everyone suggests everything else in the book from mounting hardware, custom shim, different oil, etc and maybe 1 person in the back will mutter "try a different spring rate". The other potential air drawback is we have too much access to the spring curve and turn what potentially could be an "as linear as air can get" spring curve into a funky squiggly line.

I tried reducing volume in my negative chamber on my topaz. I experienced what ninjichor observed in his overlooked post in this thread. In my case it decreased suppleness and gave me an inefficient mid stroke. There was a stiffness there that could be mistaken for support- but overall it felt like the "marketing linear" that Giant used to give the users what they want (perceived plushness, and use of all travel).

There are special use cases for reducing volume, but over all they are often used to our detriment. I think we could all benefit from upping the spring rate instead of adding spacers and trying to keep the spring rate arbitrarily low- which is mostly a bad habit leftover from the crappy air can days of yesteryear.

So what would I try? upping the spring rate 10-15% and removing volume spacers (dare I say all of them?). The advantage of the topaz isn't that we can sodomize it with spacers- its that we can tune for support and efficient use of travel. The air bladder and larger neg chamber are there to be plush no matter what spring rate we choose. Thus I see little advantage in reducing volume in most cases.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

gfourth said:


> Have you tried upping the spring rate?
> 
> I've noticed quite the differences in tuning approaches for coil vs. air. With coil you have to try 2-3 different springs in noticeable +/- 12%, 25% increments before the dials make any noticeable difference, before the tech on the phone or the dude on the keyboard will make any further tuning suggestions. They all feel shitty until you find the right rate, couple clicks here and there, and boom- heaven.
> 
> ...


I am actually at exactly the point you describe.

I recently pulled the last remaining spacer out of my can, which was one in the positive, and upped the pressure to about DVO's recommendation. The bike did feel a lot better with the added pressure and I liked the way it behaved.

I was also always under the impression that spacers in the negative increased harshness and support of the top (in the digressive part of the Nomad's curve) which is why I decided not to run any.

I may be chasing a unicorn in trying to tune out some of the wallow from the Nomad. It is also very rare I ride the type of terrain where it matters. 99.5% of the time I am grinding up to just pin back down. 
Last night I went to bang some spacers in, but decided against it. I am on my way for a shuttle weekend so did not want to be messing about with spacers while there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

MsvSpaz said:


> I am actually at exactly the point you describe.
> 
> I recently pulled the last remaining spacer out of my can, which was one in the positive, and upped the pressure to about DVO's recommendation. The bike did feel a lot better with the added pressure and I liked the way it behaved.
> 
> ...


Shuttling is about the best way to mess around with spacers!

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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

I agree you need to start w the right spring rate. Dvo has a large neg spring and sets up deep in the sag. IMO. So some bikes may benefit with an offset bushing, as i have, to move the suspension platform up. This can make a huge difference to initial support and your pedalling.

I played w negative bands and it made it feel less supple. As it should. Didnt really help lift the sag point much. Just reduced the negative springs help.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

Junersun said:


> Shuttling is about the best way to mess around with spacers!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes and no. 
Might be the best way to test the configurations, but the level of faff required is high and I would rather get as many laps in as possible. 
And to be honest, descending on the Nomad, while pinned, is definitely not where wallow would be an issue.

The shock performed perfectly well for the entire weekend of shuttles.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

Just an update on my Topaz: After I initially felt basically no effect using the climb switch I sent it to the german distributior (Cosmicsports). They needed two attempts and it took some time, but now my Topaz works great. Cosmicsports added one shim to the compression loader which made a huge difference. Climb mode is really firm now, rides higher in the stroke now. Traverse mode also works, there is way less wobble while pedaling. 

Initially I started out (based on what I have read) with 2 neg and 1 pos spacer. That was way better than the Monarch plus rc3 I had before, but I felt I was blowing through the stroke too easily. Felt kind of harsh sometimes, too. After messing around with spacers some time I kicked them out. All of them. This is were I am now:

Banshee Spitfire V2 size L
Weight ready to ride 195lb
Pike 150mm Debonair upgrade
Topaz: No spacers, 230PSI main, 180PSI bladder (28% sag) 

Maybe I will add one spacer to the positive chamber, but right now the bike feels just great.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

I blew out the bladder on my Mutz mounted Topaz. After replacing it and a bleed, I could barely compress the shock at anything over 140 psi or so. 
The bleed instructions aren’t clear on if you should complete the bleed with the shock extended or compressed. 
I originally ended with the shock fully extended which resulted in the above issue. Figured I was in for a complete rebuild when I happened to re-bleed and end the process with the shock compressed. Aired it back up and now it seems fine. 
Can anyone confirm this is the correct method?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Hobine said:


> I blew out the bladder on my Mutz mounted Topaz. After replacing it and a bleed, I could barely compress the shock at anything over 140 psi or so.
> The bleed instructions aren't clear on if you should complete the bleed with the shock extended or compressed.
> I originally ended with the shock fully extended which resulted in the above issue. Figured I was in for a complete rebuild when I happened to re-bleed and end the process with the shock compressed. Aired it back up and now it seems fine.
> Can anyone confirm this is the correct method?


(nice avatar...)

Extended is the "right" way, but it really doesn't matter. The volume inside remains the same. The oil is just moving from one side of the piston to the other.

Their instructions are a bit lacking at times, when in doubt I call them. Ronnie has given me a few tips that aren't in the instructions.

Why it wasn't working...can't say. blockage in the air system?


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi all,

I'm coming up on my yearly service for my Topaz. I've questioned a few shops about the cost of doing a air can service, and have come up with prices around $90. While I guess it's not too unreasonable speaking that includes seals, I'm not crazy to spend $90 on what seems to be a pretty simple service. I'm thinking to give the air can service a shot my self - as someone who has never worked on suspension before, is there anything I should keep in mind during the process? I plan on purchasing a pick, suspension cleaner, and slick honey, is there anything else worth buying for the air service?

In addition, when do people usually service their dampers? I'm probably due for a damper service according to DVO's schedule. However, a few of the shops told me that they usually don't bother with a damper service unless the shock is displaying damping issues. Would it be alright to leave the damper alone, or should I also service it while doing the air can? 

Thanks for any advice.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Strap wrench is pretty handy for getting the inner can off.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Strap wrench is pretty handy for getting the inner can off.


Thanks for the recommendation, I'll look into picking one up.


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## Cmoorejr (Aug 5, 2006)

Looking for a little forum feedback….

I picked up a Topaz T3 Air shock for my Pivot Trail 429 and I’m looking for tuning advice. Out of the box I aired up to 220 Main Air Can and 190 in the bladder to hit the Sag mark, .55” according to Pivot. 

On the trail the shock felt surprisingly good without any volume spacers. If I had an observation, it seems like the shock moves easily in its initial travel but I never bottomed out nor did the O ring come off of the shaft. I mostly trail ride so nothing extreme and I didn’t notice any out of the ordinary “bob” as I was pedaling. Small bump compliance was outstanding compared to the OEM Fox shock. 

So where do I go from here to really get the full benefit of the Topaz? Any and all advice greatly appreciated! 

Info-

Me…. 225 Gear up riding 
Bike….2018 Pivot Trail 429 
Skill Level… Over 50 Weekend Warrior who has bills to pay


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## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

You can experiment with negative spacers and bladder pressure. But the results your describing is great. Less bladder pressure will bring the overall curve down. You can counter the extra sag from this with adding some negative spacers.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Just installed a Topaz on my Canfield Balance. During the setup I encountered the same "hard to compress" issue that many others have experienced. It felt like an old 2000s air shock with no sensitivity and a super harsh top out.

This happens because the negative spring isn't equalizing. They say to cycle the shock in the general range of the DVO logo on the stanchion. I find I have to really pound on it to get it to equalize. Once you get it to pressure you'll want to pound it for a few minutes with the pump disconnected and then set the pressure a final time.

After lots of tinkering I have mine super dialed. I'm 150lbs tops, and I run 155psi in the main and 170psi in the bladder, 3 clicks of rebound. I put three spacers in the positive chamber and have none in the negative. The idea is to increase the proportion of the negative spring to the positive, basically the same idea as the OTT on the DVO forks. It feels nearly identical to a coil spring. I can drop the rear wheel on the ground and it won't bounce at all. But I still have plenty of support in the rest of the stroke thanks to the spacers.

I may drop back to two spacers in the positive if it gets too wallowy. 

I haven't been able to actually trail ride it yet but I've romped around in the big field of landscaping rocks behind my apartment and done some hard hits and drops on the landscaping walls. This suspension blows everything else I've ever tried out of the water. Not even close. It's unbelievably smooth, and so easy to adjust. I demo'd a Slayer with the top-of-the-line Fox crap on it and did not like it.

Major props to DVO, they deserve to crush the market.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

eicca said:


> Just installed a Topaz on my Canfield Balance. During the setup I encountered the same "hard to compress" issue that many others have experienced. It felt like an old 2000s air shock with no sensitivity and a super harsh top out.
> 
> This happens because the negative spring isn't equalizing. They say to cycle the shock in the general range of the DVO logo on the stanchion. I find I have to really pound on it to get it to equalize. Once you get it to pressure you'll want to pound it for a few minutes with the pump disconnected and then set the pressure a final time.
> 
> ...


Are you counting your rebound clicks from full-fast (counterclockwise) or full-slow (clockwise)? I weight about 180-170lb geared to ride on a Canfield Riot, but have had a really hard time finding rebound recommendations for the Topaz when running it on a CBF bike. I was wondering if my setting is about proportional to what others are running (I'm normally running between 3-4 clicks in from full-fast).

Thanks.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Phoenix864 said:


> Are you counting your rebound clicks from full-fast (counterclockwise) or full-slow (clockwise)? I weight about 180-170lb geared to ride on a Canfield Riot, but have had a really hard time finding rebound recommendations for the Topaz when running it on a CBF bike. I was wondering if my setting is about proportional to what others are running (I'm normally running between 3-4 clicks in from full-fast).
> 
> Thanks.


Yes, I count clicks from full open. Your settings sound fine. Mine was tuned for lighter damping since I'm a lightweight so I probably have to turn more clicks than average to get the same results.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

eicca said:


> Yes, I count clicks from full open. Your settings sound fine. Mine was tuned for lighter damping since I'm a lightweight so I probably have to turn more clicks than average to get the same results.


Thanks for the info. Just to confirm, when you say lighter damping that would include rebound as well (for example 2 clicks of your rebound know would add the same amount of damping as 1 click of mine)? Do you find that the Balance feel better with rebound on the faster or slower side?


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Phoenix864 said:


> Thanks for the info. Just to confirm, when you say lighter damping that would include rebound as well (for example 2 clicks of your rebound know would add the same amount of damping as 1 click of mine)? Do you find that the Balance feel better with rebound on the faster or slower side?


I assume that is the case. I'm not actually sure what DVO did to my shock to get my requested "light tune," but I assume the rebound damping is lighter along with the compression damping.

The Balance seems to feel better with rebound on the faster side, but given my damper tune, I can't say for sure. I had a long descent with some pretty good chatter yesterday, and that gave me plenty of chances to hop off, adjust a click or two, and see what the difference was. The bike ultimately felt best when the rebound was a click faster than I thought it ought to be. When pumping the suspension by hand, I can just barely tell that the rebound is doing anything and that seems to be just right.


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## danielgrafik (Dec 3, 2011)

Quick question, how often do you guys check your air pressures (shock and bladder)?
I ride about once a week at the moment, and before each ride I have to top of air in both; shock has usually fallen from 195-ish to 160-ish and the bladder from 175-80 to 150. It's not a big deal to do, but I thought maybe bladder pressure would be more set-and-forget?


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

danielgrafik said:


> Quick question, how often do you guys check your air pressures (shock and bladder)?
> I ride about once a week at the moment, and before each ride I have to top of air in both; shock has usually fallen from 195-ish to 160-ish and the bladder from 175-80 to 150. It's not a big deal to do, but I thought maybe bladder pressure would be more set-and-forget?


Are you actually experiencing issues like the shock getting softer or just checking to check?

The pump has to back fill when plugging in so just the act of plugging it in will reduce the overall pressure. Try it: pump it up to your desired pressure, fully disconnect the pump, then hook it back up. The pump will read lower.

I have heard sometimes the seals on the air can get a little dry, so if you are actually losing air, just slide the air can off and re-lube the three seal with some Slick Honey.


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## barefootdan (Oct 6, 2008)

danielgrafik said:


> Quick question, how often do you guys check your air pressures (shock and bladder)?
> I ride about once a week at the moment, and before each ride I have to top of air in both; shock has usually fallen from 195-ish to 160-ish and the bladder from 175-80 to 150. It's not a big deal to do, but I thought maybe bladder pressure would be more set-and-forget?


I usually did the main can once or twice a week. Usually it's good with holding for a week, I just double check for long rides. The bladder was less often...once or twice a month. It rarely had issues holding pressure. If you're dropping pressure Everytime, make sure it's not just the pressure drop from attaching your pump!


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

I always pre-charge the pump. This way it is easier to see if it actually is losing pressure. This vid explains how to do it.


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## stonant (Mar 11, 2016)

The volume of the piggy back is so small that when you connect a pump you can expect a pretty large pressure drop, and that's likely what you're seeing. Lube all the seals and see if you continue to have a pressure drop in the body. If that doesn't help maybe swap the valve, and if that doesn't work you might need a re-build.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Hi all,

I just recently had my Topaz rebuilt. After receiving the shock post-rebuild I noticed that the bladder air cap/air valve assembly seems to be slightly sunk into the shock housing. Is this normal and/or acceptable?

My shock (you can just see the sliver bladder retaining clip around the housing):










Image from a review online (the bladder retaining clip is entirely covered):










Thanks for any advice.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just recently had my Topaz rebuilt. After receiving the shock post-rebuild I noticed that the bladder air cap/air valve assembly seems to be slightly sunk into the shock housing. Is this normal and/or acceptable?
> 
> ...


I did the same when I rebuilt mine. I was able to pull it back out fairly easily but that does increase the volume a touch which may throw off the internals as the oil level doesn't change. I opted to let the air out, open the bleed port and add a touch more oil.

Did dvo do it or someone else?

Either way best to call them. May not matter.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Doug said:


> I did the same when I rebuilt mine. I was able to pull it back out fairly easily but that does increase the volume a touch which may throw off the internals as the oil level doesn't change. I opted to let the air out, open the bleed port and add a touch more oil.
> 
> Did dvo do it or someone else?
> 
> Either way best to call them. May not matter.


A local shop did the bleed. I rang DVO after I noticed it. I don't know if they 100% understood the issue over the phone, but they did say it shouldn't matter. They had me check the air cap to see if the o-ring was missing. It was, so the air cap sits a bit lower (which might make the shock look a bit stranger). They said that they would send out a new air cap.

That said, the green housing is also sitting lower than the lip of the casing (unlike in the review photo) so there still might be a slight issue. I might try sending them an email with pictures.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

That is definitely not correct, is the bladder inflated to 170psi? It's either deflated or there isn't enough oil, or the cap is slightly crooked and the snap ring is stopping it from pushing in to place


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Oops, doublepost


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> That is definitely not correct, is the bladder inflated to 170psi? It's either deflated or there isn't enough oil, or the cap is slightly crooked and the snap ring is stopping it from pushing in to place


The bladder is currently at 180psi. Should I go back to the shop and ask if they can try using a valve core puller to pull the bladder casing out further, and then add more oil through the bleed fitting?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Let the bladder down to about 30 psi and see if it sucks even further in to the shock, if it does then it needs to be rebled and set properly. If not, it might just be crooked so press around the edges to straighten it out and the pressure will pop it in to place then reinflate


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

H-akka said:


> I always pre-charge the pump. This way it is easier to see if it actually is losing pressure. This vid explains how to do it.


So simple and yet brilliant. Thanks for posting that.

Might make for a little more consistency when swapping between pumps.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Let the bladder down to about 30 psi and see if it sucks even further in to the shock, if it does then it needs to be rebled and set properly. If not, it might just be crooked so press around the edges to straighten it out and the pressure will pop it in to place then reinflate


Will do, thanks for the recommendation. When you say press around the edges, I should try wiggling the valve core and applying pressure around it on the green backing plate while the bladder is 30psi? If this works and gets the shock back to looking normal, should I be worried about possible damage to the bladder or a bad bleed?

Thanks for the help.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

I went ahead and dropped the bladder PSI to around 30 and tried wiggling and pressing on the valve core and backplate. While the bladder didn't obviously suck in, I wasn't able to get it to pop all the way out. I'll give it a shot again in a bit, but otherwise is there anything else I should try?

Thanks.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Phoenix864 said:


> I went ahead and dropped the bladder PSI to around 30 and tried wiggling and pressing on the valve core and backplate. While the bladder didn't obviously suck in, I wasn't able to get it to pop all the way out. I'll give it a shot again in a bit, but otherwise is there anything else I should try?
> 
> Thanks.


It definitely doesn't look properly seated against the retaining clip. I'd just send it back to the shop and say sort it.
If you want to DIY, you'll need damper oil, bleed syringe and valve tool.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> I went ahead and dropped the bladder PSI to around 30 and tried wiggling and pressing on the valve core and backplate. While the bladder didn't obviously suck in, I wasn't able to get it to pop all the way out. I'll give it a shot again in a bit, but otherwise is there anything else I should try?
> 
> Thanks.


Air up the bladder to 180 (no air in main). Install the shock on the bike and compress it. That should put sufficient pressure on the bladder and cap to set it in place.

Remove air from bladder and remove from bike. With the bleed port up and higher theme the rest of the shock open it up. You may hear a sucking sound as it pulls in air. Add a bit of oil. That should top it off to fill the little bit of extra volume created when the bladder and cap moved into position.

The same happened to me and I took it apart fearing the bladder might be loose or other issues. It was fine.

All the same it wasn't a proper reassembly and bleed. The shop should fix it.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll definitely take it back to the shop and ask them to sort it. Thanks for the suggestions Doug - I'll ask the shop to follow them as they seem to have worked for you in the past. 

After the rebuild the shop did test the shock by compressing it/bouncing around on the bike a bit, definitely compressing the bladder. Should I be worried about any chance of the bladder being damaged due to the improper installation?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> After the rebuild the shop did test the shock by compressing it/bouncing around on the bike a bit, definitely compressing the bladder. Should I be worried about any chance of the bladder being damaged due to the improper installation?


The bladder is pretty thick and durable. It's actually necessary to slide it down like that to re-assemble so it's not bad to do so.

However I did pull mine apart and inspect it. If I were to do it again I wouldn't pull it apart. Just move it and add oil. But if I paid a shop to do it I would want them to open it up and check it.

Another trick to check for bladder damage or air in the oil is to removed all air (main and bladder), remove the bladder valve core, insert a 4mm Allen wrench. It should go in an inch or more. If there is a problem with the bladder you may feel a hole, find oil inside, or the Allen wrench won't go far because the bladder is collapsed due to air in the oil.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Doug said:


> The bladder is pretty thick and durable. It's actually necessary to slide it down like that to re-assemble so it's not bad to do so.
> 
> However I did pull mine apart and inspect it. If I were to do it again I wouldn't pull it apart. Just move it and add oil. But if I paid a shop to do it I would want them to open it up and check it.
> 
> Another trick to check for bladder damage or air in the oil is to removed all air (main and bladder), remove the bladder valve core, insert a 4mm Allen wrench. It should go in an inch or more. If there is a problem with the bladder you may feel a hole, find oil inside, or the Allen wrench won't go far because the bladder is collapsed due to air in the oil.


I took the shock back to the shop, they said that they slightly overfilled the bladder and the bladder housing popped back into place. It sounds like a similar idea to your method, where the bladder presses against something else to pop it back into place. They did not, however, add oil. They did say that if I had any other issues that they would stand behind their work and sort out the problems.

JohnnyC7's recommendations just advised popping the bladder back into place, with no mention of adding oil. Do you feel that it's necessary to add the oil after getting the bladder back into place? I was hoping to ride the shock pretty soon, but am now wondering if I should hold off until DVO gets back to me with their official recommendations.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

If it’s low on oil you will get topping out /very inconsistent damping at the top of the stroke, if it’s feeling normal then it should be fine.

As Doug said the bladders are very durable


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

JohnnyC7 said:


> If it's low on oil you will get topping out /very inconsistent damping at the top of the stroke, if it's feeling normal then it should be fine.
> 
> As Doug said the bladders are very durable


Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for that. Would you think that just pushing the bladder forward a bit might necessitate adding oil? So far the shock seems normal, but I've yet to take it out on the trail. I'll be taking it out tomorrow, hopefully if anything is off I'll notice.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Phoenix864 said:


> Thanks for the info, I'll keep an eye out for that. Would you think that just pushing the bladder forward a bit might necessitate adding oil? So far the shock seems normal, but I've yet to take it out on the trail. I'll be taking it out tomorrow, hopefully if anything is off I'll notice.


By pushing it out it increased the volume. Oil doesn't expand and it is a sealed system so air cannot get in....at least should not...I have to wonder if the bladder expanded to fill the volume or it created vacuum or potential cavitation. Cavitation can damage shims and other parts. It also results in bursts of no rebound damping.

Just speculation, let us know how it rides.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

Yeah, I've been wondering about the same thing. I've worked with this shop before and they've always stood behind their work, so I would hope if my shock starts feeling like a jackhammer or starts topping out they would do what's necessary to get it sorted. 

That said, when DVO gets back to me about what they recommend I would ask the shop to do it regardless if the shock is working correctly or not. I'll report back after the ride, hopefully it won't be like bouncing on a pogo stick.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

I rode the shock today - everything seemed alright. The only thing that was slightly unusual was that occasionally the shock would seem to bounce/buck while riding. I started with the same settings as before the rebuild (I didn't experience this before). I can't quite say if this is due to cavitation or if I just need to increase my rebound damping due to the shock being more sensitive after being freshly rebuilt. Unfortunately my ride wasn't very long so I wasn't able to extensively test different rebound settings. 

However, my Diamond (which was also serviced at the same time as the Topaz) has started rattling pretty badly. I've got a feeling that the sound is coming from the OTT guide/spring. Looks like I'll at least be going back to the shop to see if they can take care of that.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

I spoke with DVO regarding the bladder. They said that as long as the bladder is not sucked back into the shock housing when the pressure is released, the shock will function fine. I would guess this is due to the shock being filled with oil before the bladder is pressurized. The bladder expands, pressuring the oil. I would guess that small amount the bladder moved back would cause sightly less pressure on the oil at a certain bladder PSI, but no other major effects.

To fully test the shock I think I would need to let all the air out of both the air can and the bladder. Is this a safe thing to do, or should the bladder always be slightly pressurized?


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

Phoenix864 said:


> I spoke with DVO regarding the bladder. They said that as long as the bladder is not sucked back into the shock housing when the pressure is released, the shock will function fine. I would guess this is due to the shock being filled with oil before the bladder is pressurized. The bladder expands, pressuring the oil. I would guess that small amount the bladder moved back would cause sightly less pressure on the oil at a certain bladder PSI, but no other major effects.
> 
> To fully test the shock I think I would need to let all the air out of both the air can and the bladder. Is this a safe thing to do, or should the bladder always be slightly pressurized?


No, the bladder can be completely depressurised.
Please take this comment in the positive way it is intended...you are sweating about this way too much. The amount of time this has taken up occupying your thoughts, you would be better to take it back to the shop, still fresh from a service and get them to sort the base issue for free. If you ride it for a while, then they are likely to ask why you didn't just bring it in and get it sorted.

I'm no pro, but this issue I would resolve in no more than 20 minutes. Here are the detailed instructons how to solve it - I would let out the aircan and bladder pressure, spin the rebound and compression switch/dials to full open, remove the shock from the bike, remove the aircan valve core to make it easy to cycle the shock, attach a bleed syringe to the bleed port with some damper fluid in it, attach a valve tool to the bladder, pull it out until it seats fully against the retaining ring, then cycle the shock a few times, close the bleed port, put the aircan valve core back in, then put it on the bike and air up the bladder, then the aircan. Problem solved.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

fresh tracks said:


> No, the bladder can be completely depressurised.
> Please take this comment in the positive way it is intended...you are sweating about this way too much. The amount of time this has taken up occupying your thoughts, you would be better to take it back to the shop, still fresh from a service and get them to sort the base issue for free. If you ride it for a while, then they are likely to ask why you didn't just bring it in and get it sorted.
> 
> I'm no pro, but this issue I would resolve in no more than 20 minutes. Here are the detailed instructons how to solve it - I would let out the aircan and bladder pressure, spin the rebound and compression switch/dials to full open, remove the shock from the bike, remove the aircan valve core to make it easy to cycle the shock, attach a bleed syringe to the bleed port with some damper fluid in it, attach a valve tool to the bladder, pull it out until it seats fully against the retaining ring, then cycle the shock a few times, close the bleed port, put the aircan valve core back in, then put it on the bike and air up the bladder, then the aircan. Problem solved.


Thanks for the info. I definitely get what your saying about stressing out over it. I'm a bit of a worrier, but I think its been fully sorted now. I did take the shock back to the shop - they popped the bladder back into the correct position by overfilling it slightly to push it back into place.

After talking with DVO, they recommended just double checking to ensure that the bladder wasn't being pulled in, but I think everything is fine at this point. If I do give it a shot, it sounds like emptying the air can, then the bladder, and then reinflating the bladder, then the air can is the way to go. I appreciate the info and sentiment though.


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## srbecker (Jul 28, 2009)

What shock did you order if you dont mind my asking? I need a 185 x 44 according to conversions, but Ronnie from DVO said 190 x 50... Not sure what size to get. Did your fox hardware transfer over flawlessly?


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## greddyvox (Jun 23, 2011)

Anyone experience a mild click sound when your Topaz rebounds after a light compression? Is this something I should be worried about? Shock still performs as it should, but I only noticed it after I topped up the main chamber and bladder to my usual settings - 190/200


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## yo_eddie (Nov 11, 2016)

greddyvox said:


> Anyone experience a mild click sound when your Topaz rebounds after a light compression? Is this something I should be worried about? Shock still performs as it should, but I only noticed it after I topped up the main chamber and bladder to my usual settings - 190/200


After running my Topaz for maybe 20 hours I figured exactly the same. It basically feels like a stick-slip effect. 
If I compress the shock on the workbench (without pressure in the main chamber) it makes a noise like the would be something rubbing internally. Riding does not feel compromised, though.


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## greddyvox (Jun 23, 2011)

Also, it seems that the click is not noticeable when sitting on the bike and unweighting the rear - perhaps it only happens when the shock is fully extended after a compression, so when at sag point there isn't that ticking sound.


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

greddyvox said:


> Also, it seems that the click is not noticeable when sitting on the bike and unweighting the rear - perhaps it only happens when the shock is fully extended after a compression, so when at sag point there isn't that ticking sound.


I've had no problems with my Topaz at all. But yesterday I noticed the same. I need to look over everything again, just to see if anything might be loose. But it seems like sound is coming from inside of the shock. 
I called DVO, and got someone on the phone withing the first ringback (THIS IS AWESOME) He transferred me to Ronnie. 
He told me to check bladder pressure, and mounting hardware. I'll do this tonight. If everything checks out, it might be time for oil change/ damper service. I have over 150 hours on it easily. Maybe closer to 200.

I'd say call them if you have any questions. And keep us posted.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

I have had sounds like that be a sticky bushing. I replaced it with a needle bearing and it was 1000% better.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

Time to do first service on my Topaz. Guess I need to do both shock and canister seals and everything? Feels a bit finicky. I might just send it away. If I decide to do it myself, which oil do you recommend? I run it very damped, just 3-4 clicks from fully damped, so I don't think a thinner oil than original suits me.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

H-akka said:


> Time to do first service on my Topaz. Guess I need to do both shock and canister seals and everything? Feels a bit finicky. I might just send it away. If I decide to do it myself, which oil do you recommend? I run it very damped, just 3-4 clicks from fully damped, so I don't think a thinner oil than original suits me.


I have used redline like water, 2.5 eta and 5wt. 5wt is just too heavy. Shock felt terrible and wallowy. Rebled it right away. 2.5 is what they recommend. That feels good but is a bit heavier than I'd like. I especially feel it in the rebound. Like water is very light, too light for me.

I will probably open the bleed port and remove 20ml of the 2.5wt and put in 20ml of the like water to get a 60/40 blend.

Redoing the seals is not hard. Tedious but no special tools are needed. An old bike tube and gloves replace shaft clamps for me.


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## ach78 (Sep 9, 2018)

Hi,

I've just ordered my self a Topaz for my 29" 2018 AL Comp Jeffsy (very progressive frame). Not really happy about the stock Monarch HV and wanted to try something else, and I'm interested into this bladder specificity of the Topaz.

I have a question about the bladder pressure in the topaz. So, I understand the function of an IFP/bladder is to prevent cavitation. OK there's that, now for the following, let's assume whatever pressure is in the IFP/Bladder, you ride cavitation free.

Now I have read here and there that increasing the bladder pressure will "harden" the shock on it's entire travel. I need to understand more on this.

When the shock compresses, some volume is added into the oil bath, since the shaft is inserted into that volume, the oil has to go somewhere. That is allowed by the IFP/bladder. Now the side-effect of that, is that since the IFP/bladder is pressurized, this displacement of shaft volume into the IFP/Bladder, through the flow of oil, acts as another air spring.

This is why and air shock with a depressurized (or even removed air sleeve) air spring, still has some spring into it.

So my question is, when people say an increased Bladder pressure will "stiffen" on it's entire travel, are we talking about the increase of this secondary spring ?

If yes, then do we agree that increasing bladder pressure will actually also decrease sag, just like an increase of air spring pressure? If yes then what are the effects of decreasing the air spring pressure while increasing the bladder pressure, all while maintaining an unchanged sag ? Is pressure in the air spring equivalent to pressure in the Bladder, EFFECT wise (not talking about 1psi=1psi, which it is probably not at all) ?

If we are not talking about what I call this secondary air spring, then what are we talking about ? Is there another effect to increasing the bladder pressure, on the DAMPING component of the shock ? In other words, does pressurized oil behave differently than unpressurised oil ? If so, is bladder pressure increase an equivalent to oil viscosity increase ? If that is the case then the effect of bladder pressure would be much more profound (and interesting fo tunability)

Thanks for any insight

Also if you have a "base" setting that you want to recommend (I'm about 82kg geared up) I'm all ears. Not an agressive rider, more looking into comfort/security setting. I intend to remove all bands, start with minimal bladder pressure and set the air spring to whatever pressure that gives me a 30% sag. But anyhow, any comment welcome. I want to make the shock as linear as possible (I actually hesitated with a Jade).


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

ach78 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've just ordered my self a Topaz for my 29" 2018 AL Comp Jeffsy (very progressive frame). Not really happy about the stock Monarch HV and wanted to try something else, and I'm interested into this bladder specificity of the Topaz.
> 
> ...


I've been thinking about this lately too with setup of my new topaz 2.

Yes, No, Kind of. A depressurized spring still has some spring because it is depressurized (at atmospheric pressure) not at vacuum. As you called it the "secondary (but not independent) spring" of the air pressure behind the bladder increases the force required on the shock shaft at any point to move the fluid to compress the bladder. 
Given the unknown effect amount I wouldn't really use this as spring rate tuning variable without a discussion with DV0. It's more of a making sure the damping works properly and oil doesn't cavitate tool by:
- Providing back pressure to slow the oil down enough during compression. 
- Providing back pressure to push the oil back fast enough during rebound.

I'm still mulling over in my head the effect increased bladder pressure might have on rebound speed/damping or once again if it would even be noticeable/measurable.

In theory yes sag will be effected, but in a measurable or not way in reality I don't know. The bladder/IFP will compress until the air pressure behind the bladder/IFP is equal to the compression force or the shaft (your weight at sag). 
How much movement of the shock shaft this translates to is a function of bladder air volume, fluid volume and surface areas or bladder and piston head. 
You would need access to DVO's design/tuning software to accurately determine the ratios of bladder pressure to air can pressure to maintain a given sag point.


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## Supah Dave (Jan 6, 2017)

DVO is very helpful answering these questions. They will give you a base setting with your weight/bike setup etc. Try emailing Ronnie.


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## Kevin Van Deventer (Jan 31, 2015)

With the topaz trunnion 165 is it possible to get travel spacers with it that would allow me to alternate between 40mm and 45mm stroke?
Also would like it set up for my weight and this frame https://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/light-carbon-fs937-downcountry-29er-build-1101497.html

Thank you


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Kevin Van Deventer said:


> With the topaz trunnion 165 is it possible to get travel spacers with it that would allow me to alternate between 40mm and 45mm stroke?
> 
> Thank you


Best to contact DVO, but that appears that may be the way they do it anyway with the Topaz 2.


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## jan andersson (Aug 12, 2019)

Anybody who know if its possible to fit a dvo topas on a trek remedy 8 2016 27,5.
I know i need the ofset bushings.


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## Darksoul (Apr 27, 2014)

Hi to all!
I scratched my damper body and I got the part but I didnt know exactly the way to change it!
I had to change the damper body and I will go to fill it with new oil and good to go to close the shock or I have to do it all the service internal first?
its easy but I had been serviced couple of months and I didnt want to open it again!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Just put the Topaz on my new Kona Process 134. First DVO component for me.

Love it! Super plush and highly tunable. Very happy. I also like the ease of serviceability compared to other shocks. Plus they were super easy to work with both through e-mail and on the phone. Helpful and quick to reply.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

I reckon my Topaz might need a bleed. It is making a bit of noise at extension and it seems to go away after a few compressions.. My buest guess is there is some air somewhere.

Question for anyone who has bled one before, can i just crack the bleed port and bleed? Obviously after removing the air can etc.. so I can hand cycle it and attaching the bleed syringe.

I checked the bleed instructions, but they are part of the full service document and outline reinsterting the bladder after removal and I am unsure if this is an essential step to get air out of the reservoir.


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

MsvSpaz said:


> I reckon my Topaz might need a bleed. It is making a bit of noise at extension and it seems to go away after a few compressions.. My buest guess is there is some air somewhere.
> 
> Question for anyone who has bled one before, can i just crack the bleed port and bleed? Obviously after removing the air can etc.. so I can hand cycle it and attaching the bleed syringe.
> 
> I checked the bleed instructions, but they are part of the full service document and outline reinsterting the bladder after removal and I am unsure if this is an essential step to get air out of the reservoir.


I just unscrewed and filled the can, then did the bleed. Worked fine. It's messy. But I changed all oil and got out the air. Didn't change one seal. I should have done the can service. But I will do the whole service this winter.


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

H-akka said:


> I just unscrewed and filled the can, then did the bleed. Worked fine. It's messy. But I changed all oil and got out the air. Didn't change one seal. I should have done the can service. But I will do the whole service this winter.


By "can" do you mean piggy back reservoir?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

MsvSpaz said:


> I reckon my Topaz might need a bleed. It is making a bit of noise at extension and it seems to go away after a few compressions.. My buest guess is there is some air somewhere.
> 
> Question for anyone who has bled one before, can i just crack the bleed port and bleed? Obviously after removing the air can etc.. so I can hand cycle it and attaching the bleed syringe.
> 
> I checked the bleed instructions, but they are part of the full service document and outline reinsterting the bladder after removal and I am unsure if this is an essential step to get air out of the reservoir.


Remove all air; main and reservoir!
Remove air can
Open reservoir
Drain as much oil as you can
Open bleed port
Cycle shock to remove more oil
Replace bleed screw
Add oil to reservoir (follow instructions on rebuild guide for open/closed valve)
Close reservoir, be sure to pull end cap up/out to align with end of reservoir. It's easynfir it to sit a mm or two too far in
Cycle shock and bled per instructions. 
Tip from Ronnie:
Add air to bladder and let shock sit for an hour with reservoir below the other end. Then bleed again at the bleed port. This helps remove any trapped air.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

Hey folks,

I just wanted to pick up the spacer conversation again, since I'm very interested in that topic but not everything is clear/obvious to me.

Currently I'm using the T3 in a Stumpjumper Evo and I have 4 spacers in the pos chamber. Tough I have no harsh bottom outs I'm using all the travel pretty easily/quickly at ~180PSI, ~180PSI bladder and ~28% SAG.

Did I get you guys right: "best thing" is to take out all spacers and increase the pressure in the can? What are the drawbacks of using spacers in the pos chamber? 
Why I'm using them? Guess to prevent hrash bottom outs - without them I would have to increase the pressure to a level where SAG maybe is at 20-25%?


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

aenduro said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I just wanted to pick up the spacer conversation again, since I'm very interested in that topic but not everything is clear/obvious to me.
> 
> ...


Stumpjumpers have very linear suspension layout, you need to get as much progressivity as possible from the shock (unless you are really light rider).

I weight 82kg and run 240psi with positive chamber full of spacers, 0 in neg.

I was still getting quite hard bottom outs so I asked Ronnie what are my options... And he told me that the shock is not suited for the bike... Even though I have Stumpjumper specific model of Topaz! Go figure 

Anyway, changed oil from 2,5W to 5W, which mainly affected low speed and I was still getting bottom outs and using lot of travel all the time. So I also changed the shim stack on high speed compression and now I'm much more happy.

I can still bottom out, but not harshly, and the travel is being used much more efficiently.

And to answer the other part of your question, you dont really want to go less spacers more air, because the bike will be sitting higher (less sag) and you will still blow through the travel easily. 
How much sag is too little is hard to say, for my stumpy (29 non evo) its around 30% (definitely not exact number), less and the bike feels too tall and doesn't sit in the corners.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

akantus178 said:


> Stumpjumpers have very linear suspension layout...


Thank you for your quick and detailed response- I really appreciate it!

In the PB review of the Evo I found this info:


> The Stumpjumper EVO has 9.5% progression in the high position and 9.7% in the low position, with an average ratio of 2.76 in both settings. It has a linear to progressive to linear curve.
> 
> Having the progression percentage under 10% is going to push the rider into the predicament of which to prioritize - small bump sensitivity or bottom out resistance.


Has the normal stumpy similar values?
I'm a bit surprised how ppl can run a coil in the evo without bottoming out all the time  - but I guess that's OT here... 
Anyway, I'm pretty happy with the Topaz, tough it needs some "odd" settings to work properly in the evo


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

aenduro said:


> Thank you for your quick and detailed response- I really appreciate it!
> 
> In the PB review of the Evo I found this info:
> 
> ...


As far as I know the values are fairly similar, with other bikes having 20-30% the stumpys are definitely more in the linear part of the spectrum.

As for the coil, from what I read everyone runs bit higher spring rate than usual and they still bottom out often, not ideal but does not mean unrideable (I rode for 1,5y with bottoming out all the time, but it was still fun, just not perfect) and there was also lot of talk about trying progressive springs.
It's also possible that the evo is different just enough that riding with harder spring and less sag, is less of an issue then on my bike.

I suggest to star with fully loaded possitive and around 25% sag. If you will like how it rides (stability, cornering) but will still bottom out then you will add more air until you will not like the feel of the bike. 
If it will already feel weird, then reduce air by 5psi and try again. Repeat untill you find max pressure where the bike still handles fine, and if you still bottom out lot (bottom out is fine, bottoming out on small jump or during bunny hop is not) then you have to add compression via oil/shimstack.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

akantus178 said:


> As far as I know the values are fairly similar, with other bikes having 20-30% the stumpys are definitely more in the linear part of the spectrum.
> ....


Thanks mate!


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

aenduro said:


> Thanks mate!


YW, I spent 2,5years figuring the frame out (was noob when I bought the bike) and found very little actually useful info. Best was the recent PB article about evo.

So in a way I want to prevent the frustration and blind searching I had to go through and to not be a hypocrite for complaining about lack of info and then not share what I learned myself.

Enjoy your Stumpy and ask away if you have questions.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## retrofred (Jan 19, 2004)

Just got the Topaz for my 17 Spec Enduro. Was wondering what sort of set up others that run a topaz on the Enduro use. Mine is a 27.5 and weigh about 230 with gear. Thanks in advance 

Sent from my SM-T837T using Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

Ok tell me about the Topaz...

Potentially looking for something new for the Megatower. The Topaz looks like it's easy to rebuild and tune. The only issue I have is there's no low speed compression adjuster but I suppose the guys at DVO can help with the internal tuning. My questions are:

-somewhere in this thread there was a way to convert the climb mode to become almost a full lockout, right? 

-for tuning, I'm assuming DVO can sell the shims to modify the stacks?


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

Christopher Robin said:


> Ok tell me about the Topaz...


Manufacturer support - my experience wasn't great, but reading around I am probably an outliner.

Shims - can be bought online from couple places.

Climb switch - works only on low speed circuit, open mode cannot be tuned, middle and closed positions can.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Christopher Robin said:


> Ok tell me about the Topaz...
> 
> Potentially looking for something new for the Megatower. The Topaz looks like it's easy to rebuild and tune. The only issue I have is there's no low speed compression adjuster but I suppose the guys at DVO can help with the internal tuning. My questions are:
> 
> ...


Yes, support is usually exceptional. The Giant deal overwhelmed them so during that Persia's last year support wasn't up to their usual standard.

The switch is the LSC circuit. So you do hate three modes.

You can make it nearly full lockout by adding two .15 shins to the stack in the reservoir. I did this but found it too stiff. I will try with just one extra and see how that pedals.

I got my shims from suspension direct. Call them
After or when you order and they can ship them usps first class for a few bucks. Otherwise the website defaults to $10+ options.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Christopher Robin said:


> Ok tell me about the Topaz...
> 
> Potentially looking for something new for the Megatower. The Topaz looks like it's easy to rebuild and tune. The only issue I have is there's no low speed compression adjuster but I suppose the guys at DVO can help with the internal tuning. My questions are:
> 
> ...


FWIW, I'm a former dvo topaz owner (was on my SC hightower) and current megatower air owner. From my experience using the topaz on the hightower and the sd ultimate air on the stock mega... I will/would not be considering the topaz as an upgrade to either the stock coil or air shock on the mega. The Super Deluxe is a superior shock in nearly every way. If you have disposable cash and are looking for an improvement, then I'd recommend the fractive tuning for the SD from vorsprung.


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

minimusprime said:


> FWIW, I'm a former dvo topaz owner (was on my SC hightower) and current megatower air owner. From my experience using the topaz on the hightower and the sd ultimate air on the stock mega... I will/would not be considering the topaz as an upgrade to either the stock coil or air shock on the mega. The Super Deluxe is a superior shock in nearly every way. If you have disposable cash and are looking for an improvement, then I'd recommend the fractive tuning for the SD from vorsprung.


That seems like an unfair comparison. Most upper-link-shock VPP bikes (including the Hightower) have a leverage curve that makes it difficult to get good midstroke support out of an air shock without causing other problems. A coil would provide the most mid-stroke support, but unfortunately those frames generally don't have enough progression to run most coil shocks. With the new leverage curve, reduced pedal feedback, longer travel, lower shock eyelet bearing, and metric shock sizing on the Mega, I feel like you would prefer just about any shock you put on it over an air shock on the original Hightower.

But regardless, I agree that a custom tune on the Super Deluxe is definitely worth considering.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

Christopher Robin said:


> Ok tell me about the Topaz...
> 
> Potentially looking for something new for the Megatower. The Topaz looks like it's easy to rebuild and tune. The only issue I have is there's no low speed compression adjuster but I suppose the guys at DVO can help with the internal tuning. My questions are:
> 
> ...


Awesome support. Sent mine into them twice now for readjustment (I have a back up shock) and they pretty much nailed it for me and my transition patrol!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scoobiemario (Aug 4, 2016)

I have Topaz 200x57 for sale. Just came back from DVO from one year service. I will post it in classified soon, but if anyone is interested...


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

I finally opened up the Topaz on my Trance 29 and found that it came stock with 4 spacers (2 in the +ve and 2 in the -ve). 

Just wondering what spacer configuration others are running and why?

I seems a bit redundant or “against trend” to be running 2 spacers in each spring. Surely they cancel each other out and effectively just reduce the overall volume of the air can.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

Bluman8 said:


> I finally opened up the Topaz on my Trance 29 and found that it came stock with 4 spacers (2 in the +ve and 2 in the -ve).
> 
> Just wondering what spacer configuration others are running and why?
> 
> I seems a bit redundant or "against trend" to be running 2 spacers in each spring. Surely they cancel each other out and effectively just reduce the overall volume of the air can.


Not redundant. Positive spacers increases progression as it gets deeper in travel. Negative spacers reduce the effect of the negative spring in mid strike, adding support and reducing sag.

Positive - firmer end stoke
Negative -firmer mid strike


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

Doug said:


> Not redundant. Positive spacers increases progression as it gets deeper in travel. Negative spacers reduce the effect of the negative spring in mid strike, adding support and reducing sag.
> 
> Positive - firmer end stoke
> Negative -firmer mid strike


I don't think that's quite right. Installing negative spacers is essentially the opposite of installing a Vorsprung Luftkappe in a fork or one of the old Corset air cans on a shock. Those upgrades increase the negative spring volume, which gives you a softer initial stroke, more mid stroke support, a little more progression, and generally require a little more air pressure. I would expect negative air spacers to have the opposite effect. So firmer top stroke, less mid stroke support, easier to bottom out, and require less air pressure. I think they would be good for people who are having trouble using full travel even with zero positive chamber spacers (perhaps due to a very progressive leverage curve on their frame), for very heavy riders who are already at max air pressure but still need more support, or for riders who prefer a firmer, poppier feeling top stroke.


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## Gunnar Westholm (Nov 2, 2005)

I'm on a Tantrum Meltdown and can confirm that positive spacers increases progressiveness. The Missing Link linkage is very progressive in its leverag so the maximum of volume reducers bands and and additional internal spacer is needed to avoid bottoming without running very high pressure with sag less then 20% wich I guess only xc racers would be happy with.

I run no negative volume reducer. 
I have actually thought about sealing the port between positive chamber and air sleeve with melting glue, and remove the O-ring that seals between positive and negative air sleeve to see how an even larger negativ spring will change things.. 

Sent fra min Moto G (5) Plus via Tapatalk


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## Christopher Robin (Dec 1, 2004)

minimusprime said:


> FWIW, I'm a former dvo topaz owner (was on my SC hightower) and current megatower air owner. From my experience using the topaz on the hightower and the sd ultimate air on the stock mega... I will/would not be considering the topaz as an upgrade to either the stock coil or air shock on the mega. The Super Deluxe is a superior shock in nearly every way. If you have disposable cash and are looking for an improvement, then I'd recommend the fractive tuning for the SD from vorsprung.


I reviewed the rebuild/rebleed process for the Super Deluxe and it doesn't look much more complicated than the Topaz. I'll have to mess around with it some more and then look at Vorsprung or Avalanche.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Doug said:


> Not redundant. Positive spacers increases progression as it gets deeper in travel. Negative spacers reduce the effect of the negative spring in mid strike, adding support and reducing sag.
> 
> Positive - firmer end stoke
> Negative -firmer mid strike


Yea, that makes some sense. I hadn't considered that the spacers would act on different areas of the spring curve.

Think I might try switching to a 3+ve,1-ve arrangement to give me a bit less sag for the same pressure.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

hey guys, quick question: when do I have to bleed? Which behaviour of the shock screams for a bleed?
I ask because my topaz creates this smacking noise every time in compresses again after a while of rest (min to hours) - after 3-5 compressions the noise go away until next time.
I checked the service guide but its length and complexity confuses me even more ... :/


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

aenduro said:


> hey guys, quick question: when do I have to bleed? Which behaviour of the shock screams for a bleed?
> I ask because my topaz creates this smacking noise every time in compresses again after a while of rest (min to hours) - after 3-5 compressions the noise go away until next time.
> I checked the service guide but its length and complexity confuses me even more ... :/


I'm new to the topaz too. But have you checked the bladder pressure? If there is not enough pressure in the bladder it will cause separation(bubbles) of the fluid and a squelching sound.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

Bluman8 said:


> I'm new to the topaz too. But have you checked the bladder pressure? If there is not enough pressure in the bladder it will cause separation(bubbles) of the fluid and a squelching sound.


I check it regularly, should be fine- but i'll check it again this evening, thanks.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

Christopher Robin said:


> I reviewed the rebuild/rebleed process for the Super Deluxe and it doesn't look much more complicated than the Topaz. I'll have to mess around with it some more and then look at Vorsprung or Avalanche.


The topaz is pretty much a RS monarch inside with a bladder backed IFP instead of a tradition seal/piston ifp. In and of itself, not a terrible thing. However the Superdeluxe is a significant improvement in terms of bushing overlap, and ID/OD if the internal parts (damper body etc). The monarch's achillies (and by extension the topaz) heal is that they are extremely susceptible to frames that side load the shock, and can/will aerate themselves quickly on those frames.

The topaz is really a strong example that on many frames, getting the proper air spring progression and support is more critical then getting the damping 100% perfect and very technologically advanced. In addition to that, many frames benefit from the low initial breakaway force that the topaz has over other air shocks (low leverage rate, specifically low and linear leverage ratios).

For frames that have odd leverage curves (many vpp3 frames) the topaz can be a good answer, especially if they are stiff and do not side load the shock. However for frames with moderate progression and a high initial leverage rate (like the new SC bikes) the topaz isn't superior to the SD in my honest opinion.


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

Getting ready to do my first air can service on my topaz. Do I only follow pages 4-10 of the service guide? I'm not wanting to do a damper service yet.

http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/topaz_fullservicev2.pdf


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Correct and then the steps on the last two pages other than the one about reinserting the bleed screw


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

silentG said:


> Correct and then the steps on the last two pages other than the one about reinserting the bleed screw


Thanks. How many beer Job is this? I'm assuming a couple hours?


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## H-akka (Dec 31, 2017)

MsvSpaz said:


> By "can" do you mean piggy back reservoir?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Yes, piggyback reservoir. Sorry for a super late answer


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## MsvSpaz (Jul 1, 2014)

H-akka said:


> Yes, piggyback reservoir. Sorry for a super late answer


No worries. I ended up doing a full damper service anyway. 
Was pretty straightforward and shock is as good as new now.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## buddiesconfusion (Feb 7, 2009)

After I finish getting my fork back together I can plan on digging into the shock. I’m just going to do the air can service and not the full damper as I’m short some of the tools. Any advice for a first timer doing this?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

buddiesconfusion said:


> After I finish getting my fork back together I can plan on digging into the shock. I'm just going to do the air can service and not the full damper as I'm short some of the tools. Any advice for a first timer doing this?


Do the full service. I'm not sure what tools you need that you may not have. I find an old inner tube and a firm grip can replace shaft clamps. I have shaft clamps and just prefer the inner tube method.


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## ErnoNykanen (Sep 6, 2019)

Doug said:


> Do the full service. I'm not sure what tools you need that you may not have. I find an old inner tube and a firm grip can replace shaft clamps. I have shaft clamps and just prefer the inner tube method.


Any YouTube video available for "inner tube method"?


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

ErnoNykanen said:


> Any YouTube video available for "inner tube method"?


Basically make a tourniquet with a tube. I use a section of old road tube. Wrap it around the shaft, spin the ends of the tube to tighten it down. Then hold that or clamp it in a vice.

You are basically using the tube to grip the shaft and keep it from turning when you loosen it.


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## dlxah (Nov 5, 2014)

minimusprime said:


> The topaz is pretty much a RS monarch inside with a bladder backed IFP instead of a tradition seal/piston ifp. In and of itself, not a terrible thing. However the Superdeluxe is a significant improvement in terms of bushing overlap, and ID/OD if the internal parts (damper body etc). The monarch's achillies (and by extension the topaz) heal is that they are extremely susceptible to frames that side load the shock, and can/will aerate themselves quickly on those frames.


Do the metric-sized Topaz shocks not take advantage of the opportunity for increased bushing overlap as well?


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Depending on the beer and size of the beer I would say the air can service is a 1 beer job.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

Hey, I need your help:
I did a bleding because I has a lot of air in the oil. Now, the rebound and the 3pos lever are out of function - anyone has an idea what can causes that behaviour?
Also wrote Ronnie yesterday.


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

aenduro said:


> Hey, I need your help:
> I did a bleding because I has a lot of air in the oil. Now, the rebound and the 3pos lever are out of function - anyone has an idea what can causes that behaviour?
> Also wrote Ronnie yesterday.


Could be a blown bladder. I had to replace mine when it had similar symptoms.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I've been trying to dial in my shock. Up until recently it was a bit too soft off the top, a little too active for me. Plus I wasn't getting all of my travel. Odd combo. 

After checking to see if there were any volume spacers in there from the factory, there weren't, I upped the bladder pressure to max 200psi and slightly lowered the pressure in the shock. 

Spot on! Better mid stroke support and now I'm getting all my travel. Quite happy with that. 

I checked out the My Tunes thing on the website to see if I could compare my numbers to what other people are doing, only to find that only one other person my size has entered any information at all and it was for a fork, not the shock. 

Is anyone using the My Tunes thing? 

For the record I'm 215lbs with gear.


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## phrider (Jul 1, 2016)

Bluman8 said:


> I'm new to the topaz too. But have you checked the bladder pressure? If there is not enough pressure in the bladder it will cause separation(bubbles) of the fluid and a squelching sound.


What size frame do you have? I have a medium Trance 29 and bought the Topaz aftermarket and it came with no spacers installed.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

phrider said:


> What size frame do you have? I have a medium Trance 29 and bought the Topaz aftermarket and it came with no spacers installed.


I'm on a Medium T29, but my topaz is stock, so I assume the 2.5mm spacer is installed. Still working through the best volume spacer arrangement though.

A few guys in the 2019 Trance 29 forum have long socked (165x45) their T29 without any problems though.


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## phrider (Jul 1, 2016)

Bluman8 said:


> I'm on a Medium T29, but my topaz is stock, so I assume the 2.5mm spacer is installed. Still working through the best volume spacer arrangement though.
> 
> A few guys in the 2019 Trance 29 forum have long socked (165x45) their T29 without any problems though.


I was also interested in long-stroking the shock and took the air can off to look at the 2.5mm spacer with the hope that I could just unclip it. It sure seems like the shock would have to be disassembled to take that spacer off. With no air in the shock it looked like a little more than 10mm of space before the frame touched. I felt like the shock was sagging too much so I put in two negative spacers per DVO's suggestion but no positive spacers. The shock still works well after a few months. I don't know what was happening to the shocks that people were having constant problems with. It would be good to know what to look out for.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

phrider said:


> I was also interested in long-stroking the shock and took the air can off to look at the 2.5mm spacer with the hope that I could just unclip it. It sure seems like the shock would have to be disassembled to take that spacer off. With no air in the shock it looked like a little more than 10mm of space before the frame touched. I felt like the shock was sagging too much so I put in two negative spacers per DVO's suggestion but no positive spacers. The shock still works well after a few months. I don't know what was happening to the shocks that people were having constant problems with. It would be good to know what to look out for.


Its easy to remove. They are split so you can slip them on/off the shaft.
https://dvosuspension.com/product/topaz-travel-spacer/
There is a thin washer and o-ring that sit on top of the spacer. That probably made it look like a solid piece.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Seems easy enough, looks like they just slot onto the damper shaft above the main seal. If get some time over the weekend I’ll open the air can and get a photo of what’s installed. 

Shock came stock with 2+ve and 2-ve vol spacers. I felt the same about too much sag, but changing spacers configurations didn’t seem to affect the sag at all. So I need to go back to scratch with my air pressure and then do some bracketing on volume spacers and bladder pressure. I’ll report back when I get some results.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

So this has probably been repeated many times...

Sag should be pretty much fixed. If there is an equalization port, it’s where that port is located that fixes sag. IMO

More air just creates a stiffer spring, so you’ll sit at the sag point but have more effort required to move off of it.

Neg spacers just make the shock less supple. The negative assist tapers off quicker. So yes you will ride a little higher and feel those subtle bumps a bit more.

Pos spacers will cause that spring to ramp up quicker but leave the suppleness of the shock alone.

bladder pressure is required to resist cavitation. But it also acts as a small support spring which comes into play when the piston shaft takes up oil volume. It just further firms up the air spring.

I went for max positive spacers and none negative. Max bladder pressure. 

But the real fix to riding higher was an offset bushing to bring the ride height back up 1.5mm multiplied by the linkage ratio at sag! It is this last point that I was trying to highlight to anyone trying to reduce the sag on their shock.

Cheers


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Fuse6F said:


> So this has probably been repeated many times...
> 
> Sag should be pretty much fixed. If there is an equalization port, it's where that port is located that fixes sag. IMO
> 
> ...


Mostly agree with what you said and it probably has been over before. But as a fluid mechanics engineer I will say that its often wrong.

Air pressure (spring rate) in the positive chamber is the fundamental component of setting sag. Everything else is just fine tuning.

An equalisation port is an equalisation port, nothing more. It has no direct effect on sag point.

The equalisation port should never ever be at the sag point. All this would do is suck the shock down to the sag point - by equalising the chamber pressures. The positive chamber pressure in a push shock always needs to be higher than the negative in order for a shock to extend (otherwise it's a pull shock).

Based on the need to cycle the topaz during inflation I can only assume that the equalisation port is not exactly at 'top out' on the Topaz.

Port location could be the black art of shock feel.

Everyone only thinks of small bump sensitivity and negative springs in one direction - the negative assist - but shocks and forks go in both directions. Higher negative chamber pressure makes initial movement more supple but it also stiffens the return movement and visa-versa.

Based on the Topaz curve on DVO's Facebook page adding 3 negative volume spacers increases the force (rider weight) at sag by about 50lbs. 
So I would have expected that was enough range to be able to tune sag height with spacers, but that didn't seem to be the case......Maybe this is where leverage ratios, offset bushings and kinematic etc take over, but I don't know enough about suspension design to comment, just that it didn't work for me.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> An equalisation port is an equalisation port, nothing more. It has no direct effect on sag point.
> 
> The equalisation port should never ever be at the sag point. All this would do is suck the shock down to the sag point


This appears a contradiction???



Bluman8 said:


> Based on the Topaz curve on DVO's Facebook page adding 3 negative volume spacers increases the force (rider weight) at sag by about 50lbs.


the purpose of the negative chamber is to provide assistance during the initial travel.

the size of the negative chamber determines how the assist changes with travel.

the equalization port location determines where in the stroke the pressures are balanced. (most direct effect on sag)

here is a good article.
https://bikerumor.com/2017/06/28/suspension-tech-negative-spring-works-size-matters/

Changing the neg chamber size is really just adjusting the initial stroke performance of the shock. A smaller negative chamber is not really moving your sag point higher (at least not by much).

why... because if you remove 50lbs of negative spring force, all things being equal, then 50lbs more force is required to fully compress the shock. So you end up reducing the shocks air pressure a little bit to maintain travel. Net result is you end up sitting maybe a tiny bit higher

i had more success using the offset bushing to reposition the shock giving me less total suspension sag and raising the bbh on my bike


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Bluman8 said:


> ....


That's okay, I agree with you.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Dougal said:


> That's okay, I agree with you.


As they say....good things take time.

But since I've got your attention. 
The rebound knob on my Mcleod is not working properly anymore. It's really stiff to turn and lost some range. Full rebuild or is there something I can do externally?


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Fuse6F said:


> This appears a contradiction???


Fair point. I was trying keep things short and ended up over simplifying and just confusing things. Pretty much why I don't usually get involved in these discussions.

Maybe I also miss interpreted what was originally said with regard to sag point and equalisation ports. Anyway, I'll attempt to try and dig myself out of the hole....

Assuming that our goal is to always fully equalise the positive and negative springs before the shock is compressed. In the context of what I think we are both talking about, there are two shock states to consider. 
Prior to shock compression:
- The location of the port and it's direct effect on the position of the piston prior to compression as once the springs are equalised the main piston seal will align with the equalisation port also making this the start of the shock stroke.

After shock compression: 
- As you mentioned the amount of sag is a function of the positive and negative spring pressures and largely influenced by the volume of the negative chamber.
- At sag Net Force on piston head = 0 = (sag positive pressure) - (rider weight) - (sag negative pressure) 
- How much the shock will sag is not a function (indirect effect) of the physical location of the port. However for a given pressure the shock will always sag the same amount from equalisation port.

Hopefully that clarifies what I was trying to say, but I think in the end we're both trying to say the same thing.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

First thanks for the comments. You are correct. We can both be right.

I am trying to discuss the location of the sag point. Not the amount of travel that occurs from full extension to the sag point. These are very different discussion points.

there is very little change in location of the sag point for a given rider after manipulating the number of negative bands. There is a much greater relative change in the location of the sag point if the equalization port is lowered within the shock body.


I bought the topaz because its got a reputation for being very supple. I also found out that the sag point is fairly deep into its stroke. At least compared to the shock i was replacing.

Adding negative bands didnt make the topaz jump up in its ride position, it mostly just stiffened up its initial stroke feel. 

Since i prefer the supple feel and the geometry of a higher suspension point at sag, i offset the shock mounting point to achieve/maintain the higher ride height. WIN WIN!

P.S.
my stumpjumper is 48mm stroke and 135mm rear travel. so my 1.5mm offset bushing gave me 4.2mm of bbh. ish!


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Fuse6F said:


> Since i prefer the supple feel and the geometry of a higher suspension point at sag, *i offset the shock mounting point to achieve/maintain the higher ride height. * WIN WIN!
> 
> P.S.
> my stumpjumper is 48mm stroke and 135mm rear travel. so my 1.5mm offset bushing gave me 4.2mm of bbh. ish!


What offset bushings did you use? Any recommendations? Thx


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## KennyWatson (Sep 4, 2017)

I have a ripmo AF with Topaz and negative spacers made a huge change to pressure vs sag point for me. I basically had to run about ten psi less per spacer to get the same sag. Result of this was less midstroke support due to lover overall spring rate. I suspect they have a purpose for very specific leverage curves (maybe older vpp as has been referenced) but on my bike they just made it feel wierd. 

After quite a bit of fiddling I definitely agree with the folks that recommend starting with no spacers. I bet most folks that start with none will end up with either one in the negative, or one in the positive, or none. No crazy combos of multiple spacers.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

*OneSpeed* said:


> What offset bushings did you use? Any recommendations? Thx


my friend is a machinist, i had him cut me one that was absolutely perfectly sized.

we made a couple, but i wanted the highest offset possible.


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## nashwillis (Dec 27, 2012)

I have noticed when i pump up both chamber of the topaz it will barely go above 180psi. Once i get it to 170 or 180 psi and stop the gauge then goes down like the shock is leaking. Does this mean I need a rebuild or is my shock pump bad? When I pump m fork to 70 psi there is no air leaking.


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## Doug (Jan 12, 2004)

nashwillis said:


> I have noticed when i pump up both chamber of the topaz it will barely go above 180psi. Once i get it to 170 or 180 psi and stop the gauge then goes down like the shock is leaking. Does this mean I need a rebuild or is my shock pump bad? When I pump m fork to 70 psi there is no air leaking.


Sounds like the pump to me. The two chambers are not at all connected. It would be very odd both leak at the same pressure.

Try your fork just to see. It should be fine to go to 170 static. With 70 psi it would easily pass 170 under compression.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Fuse6F said:


> I am trying to discuss the location of the sag point. Not the amount of travel that occurs from full extension to the sag point. These are very different discussion points.
> 
> P.S.
> my stumpjumper is 48mm stroke and 135mm rear travel. so my 1.5mm offset bushing gave me 4.2mm of bbh. ish!


I not sure that I follow what your talking about. 
- Are you talking about the sag point of the suspension design (i.e. 25-35% of travel? 
Or 
- Are you talking about an intrinsic sag point of the shock stroke that is independent of positive pressure? 
- How does the location of the equalization port relative to the above sag point change things for better or worse?

Is your approx 4.5mm BB height change for offset bushings measured or theoretical?

I'm stepping well outside my area of expertise here so I'm happy to be wrong. This is an interesting concept that I just haven't had time to sketch it out, but I'm thinking that the kinematics and sag point are unchanged and BB height is probably still the same, because;
- to my mind the offset shock bushing shouldn't do anything in terms or BB height because the pivot points of the suspension linkage haven't actually changed; and
- the offset bushing doesn't add any linkages.


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## jdadour (Aug 6, 2019)

Anyone with experience on both the Topaz and the Fox X2? I am considering replacing the stock Fox DPX2 on my 2019 Transition Sentinel, and trying to see how they compare. Are they similar, or is the X2 on a level above the Topaz?


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## PDB (May 16, 2006)

jdadour said:


> Anyone with experience on both the Topaz and the Fox X2? I am considering replacing the stock Fox DPX2 on my 2019 Transition Sentinel, and trying to see how they compare. Are they similar, or is the X2 on a level above the Topaz?


Yes I've ridden both - 
I'd say you are thinking about this the wrong way. I'd say the x2 is more of a pure DH shock (but highly tunable to make it work well for enduro) where the Topaz is an Enduro and All Mountain shock. I wouldn't say one is better but more that they have different uses.

The sentinel is 140mm, I'd error on the side of the Topaz as it'll be easier to tune both midstroke support and ramp with the Topaz on the Sentinel.

That said - I've raced a Topaz Enduro and DH and have buddies who ride their X2's on all mountain bikes. If the x2 is cheaper and you only care about the downs then get the x2.


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## fresh tracks (Feb 25, 2005)

PDB said:


> Yes I've ridden both -
> I'd say you are thinking about this the wrong way. I'd say the x2 is more of a pure DH shock (but highly tunable to make it work well for enduro) where the Topaz is an Enduro and All Mountain shock. I wouldn't say one is better but more that they have different uses.
> 
> The sentinel is 140mm, I'd error on the side of the Topaz as it'll be easier to tune both midstroke support and ramp with the Topaz on the Sentinel.
> ...


^^This
I have both on an Ibis HD3. Both are great. I found customising them to play nicely with the leverage rate of my frame was the biggest factor. I started with the Topaz, which has a digressive damping rate ( I think). The ibis is a great pedaller, doesn't need a lot of compression damping and doesn't have a lot of progression. It doesn't really suit the standard Topaz piston/shim configuration. DVO sold me a new piston and shims which work really well for the Ibis frame. Then I bought the X2. Likewise, the X2 out of the box with the standard medium tune was too harsh, even with the HSC adjuster backed all the way out. I got an AVY custom tune for the X2 to suit the Ibis and now it's fantastic. I'm spoilt for choice on what I use. The X2 is better at the limits going down. Any major tweaking to the shock I need to send it away to be done. The topaz is lighter, easy to service and very easy to make your own adjustments.


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## PDB (May 16, 2006)

dlxah said:


> I don't think that's quite right. Installing negative spacers is essentially the opposite of installing a Vorsprung Luftkappe in a fork or one of the old Corset air cans on a shock. Those upgrades increase the negative spring volume, which gives you a softer initial stroke, more mid stroke support, a little more progression, and generally require a little more air pressure. I would expect negative air spacers to have the opposite effect. So firmer top stroke, less mid stroke support, easier to bottom out, and require less air pressure. I think they would be good for people who are having trouble using full travel even with zero positive chamber spacers (perhaps due to a very progressive leverage curve on their frame), for very heavy riders who are already at max air pressure but still need more support, or for riders who prefer a firmer, poppier feeling top stroke.


I would suggest you try this in practice... on my santa cruz and specialized frames (different suspension designs) the negative chamber spacer has firmed up mid stroke. There's obviously slightly more initial stroke resistance but I'd say is SLIGHT initial stroke impact - and also still better performing than the fox or RS shocks. 
Also - I am able to remove a positive spacer when adding a negative spacer, I'm not experiencing that adding a negative spacer makes me bottom out more. It's not making it harder to bottom out like a positive spacer but the added mid stroke support is helping.

This has really enhanced the performance of the VPP platform on multiple bikes, and (much to my surprise) been necessary to "wake up" my stumpy evo.


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

PDB said:


> Yes I've ridden both -
> I'd say you are thinking about this the wrong way. I'd say the x2 is more of a pure DH shock (but highly tunable to make it work well for enduro) where the Topaz is an Enduro and All Mountain shock. I wouldn't say one is better but more that they have different uses.
> 
> The sentinel is 140mm, I'd error on the side of the Topaz as it'll be easier to tune both midstroke support and ramp with the Topaz on the Sentinel.
> ...


I've ridden both. I'm not a fan of twin tube design shocks like the x2. Shim stacks are my jam and the topaz does it well. Ronnie custom tuned mine and it's running awesome!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

I'm a bit surprised and confused at recent comments. When jdadour asked about the difference between the DPX2 and the Topaz, everyone started replying about the X2 without clarifying if they were abbreviating for DPX2 or talking about the actual X2.

They are two different shocks and I don't know who was referring to what?

Gravity air shock. https://www.ridefox.com/family.php?m=bike&family=floatx2

Trail air shock. https://www.ridefox.com/family.php?m=bike&family=dpx2


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

*OneSpeed* said:


> I'm a bit surprised and confused at recent comments. When jdadour asked about the difference between the DPX2 and the Topaz, everyone started replying about the X2 without clarifying if they were abbreviating for DPX2 or talking about the actual X2.
> 
> They are two different shocks and I don't know who was referring to what?
> 
> ...


Question is replacement of the dpx2 with either a x2 or a topaz...

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Junersun said:


> Question is replacement of the dpx2 with either a x2 or a topaz...


Ah, that would explain the responses. Carry on.

(tail tucked and exiting. lol. See what happens when you skim three important words?)

For the record I love my Topaz, but it's not on the bikes currently being discussed.


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## jdadour (Aug 6, 2019)

Yes, to clarify, I have DPX2, and deciding to replace it with a X2 or DVO Topaz. Thanks for all the great feedback guys! Im inclined to go with the DVO Topaz because it makes sense that it is a better fit for my Sentinel, being more enduro oriented than straight DH oriented.

Also, just now understanding how a digressive leverage curve works on the Topaz, and I really like how that functions.


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## PDB (May 16, 2006)

aenduro said:


> Hey folks,
> 
> I just wanted to pick up the spacer conversation again, since I'm very interested in that topic but not everything is clear/obvious to me.
> 
> ...


Sorry for not posting to this earlier -

I am running almost exactly the same settings on the same bike... 
I found that If i removed the 4th positive spacer and moved to the negative chamber - and removed a little air pressure for the same sag I was much happier. 
so I'm at 27-28% sag, 3 positive spacers and 1 negative spacer for my optimal setup on a 2019 stumpy evo. 
that said, the travel still doesn't feel as "endless" as other designs, but i'm still happy with it

If i follow my typical setup process - it's 1) set sag, 2) set spacers, 3) set rebound, 4) set compression dampening. After this, I may use bracketing on a trail to fine tune, but I'm 90-95% of the way there with this process in my driveway...

So - I set 28% sag with zero spacers. Then, I jump and slam my bike intro the ground with 100% of my strength to see if i can bottom out the shock or fork. I add spacers until my best efforts cannot repeatedly bottom out the shock or fork (minimum number of spacers to not bottom out under my maximum jump and compress effort). The idea here is that you initially tune to your maximum strength and force as anything much bigger then this on a trail will have you collapsing or folding into your bike. "Reality check" this on the trail. I find I never need to add spacers to a fork with this method but sometimes I do to a shock. Obviously you'll find that on the trail some bikes like 25% sag and some like 30% (or different shocks like different sag) and then you'll need to re-test spacers for bottom out. I also find it's difficult to get negative spacers correct without trail riding. Sometimes you can tell you need more "support" through the mid stroke right away and other times you don't know until you trail ride.

I also pretty much never change rebound dampening (rebound is mostly specific to spring rate) and I set it to be as fast as possible without the rear tire bouncing off the ground after compressing the shock (push on the seat and let go fast) and then i add 1 more click to slow down. Set and done and works at any pressure.

last - I treat bladder pressure as my compression dampening. I'll run very low bladder pressure where you'd want no compression dampening and high pressure where I'd want more compression dampening. A note on this is that I run as little dampening as possible in general and like my spring and spacers to do the heavy lifting as this suits my riding style.. but other people really like a dampened feel (dampening effects entire stoke where spacers don't).

I'll occasionally still run a 4th positive chamber spacer when I'm riding WAY over the bikes intended usage (like pemberton double blacks and reds, but almost nothing in colorado would require this). I'll also occasionally run an additional negative chamber if I'm running around with my xc buddies on hard tails and 100mm bikes in an absolute hammerfest. the lever is also helpful for this.

hope this helps!!


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

I have plenty of time on a Topaz (Knolly Warden and Evil Insurgent) and the Float X2 (Pivot Mach 6).

I don't think you can go wrong with either really so the answer here is going to be the frame you would be using and how much you want to fiddle around with suspension settings (and how).

The Topaz has less knobs to fiddle around with so the combination of bands and air pressure is extremely flexible.

One thing I wasn't expecting with the Float X2 has been the suggested Fox settings are pretty bang on.

If you blindfolded me and threw either shock on one of my frames and had me ride it I'm not sure it would be easy to tell the difference as both do their thing but they aren't in the way as far as thinking about the shock or wishing I had something more capable.

Maintenance on the Topaz is easier to do at home than the Float X2 and I would agree that the Float X2 can be pushed further so the question there is if the type of riding and the bike involved require that capability or not.

The only shock I have used so far that made me consider flipping has been the 11-6 which is unreal on the Insurgent.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> I not sure that I follow what your talking about.
> - Are you talking about the sag point of the suspension design (i.e. 25-35% of travel?
> Or
> - Are you talking about an intrinsic sag point of the shock stroke that is independent of positive pressure?
> ...


on the offset bushing...

a longer shock body forces the linkage further apart. the rear wheel must move down and thus the higher bbh.

on the negative spring and equalization port location...

this is an over simplification and exaggeration, but for example, take a shock set to 200psi. negative chamber equalizes to 200 psi. but it doesnt equalize until just near the bottom of the stroke. here the positive pressure increased to 350psi due to compression by the piston. then it moves a bit more and the 350 psi is exposed over into the negative chamber bringing the positive and negative chambers back to the same pressure of 200 psi. now your shock is stuck down at three quarters compressed. the resulting shock position has nothing to do with the volume of the negative chamber. adding a few negative bands wont make the shock magically ride at the top of the shock stroke.

any extra air you add is not going to make the shock ride back up at the top of the stroke either.

some shocks are going to setup a little deeper than others.


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## cYbernation (May 18, 2014)

I went on a ride today and before setting off I checked the bladder pressure.
I noticed that the top cap from the bladder had some oil residue on the inside. Did anyone encounter this as well? Is there a seal failing? I already sent the shock in to get it fixed under warranty once before. Not so happy right now.


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## retrofred (Jan 19, 2004)

Got my Topaz all mounted up on my Enduro, I also matched it up with a new Diamond fork. First ride on the bike felt good, but the test will come this weekend when put them to the test on some local trails.









Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk


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## aiv23 (Feb 8, 2019)

It's taken several days, but I've just finished reading through the entire thread having recently purchased a Topaz to replace the RS Deluxe that was fitted to my Merida 140. I've only had a couple of outings on the Topaz so far, but already feel it is an improvement, even at my noob level of riding. 

I'm fairly light (<70kg/150lbs in riding gear) and have been using the suggested pressures from the manual (190 main/170 bladder) mainly due to limited tinkering time. No spacers applied as yet. This has me with less than 30% sag, so I have not come anywhere near bottoming the shock so far. My green ring is around 10-15mm from the bottom after riding. I suspect my final main pressure will be around 150-160 when I get time to play with it some more.

It still feels a little rough through the chattery bits, but it is much smoother landing from jumps and drops (2-3 feet max). Climb mode has minimal bob, but I suspect this might change a little once I lower the main pressure. Still not a deal breaker for me.

Overall, pretty happy so far. 

Also, I've tried to register through the tech.dvosuspension website, but it's been at 'pending' status for about a week. Perhaps they are still busy making Giant stuff?


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## retrofred (Jan 19, 2004)

I would suspect that they closed down for the holiday. The guys are really cool and helpful. 

Sent from my SM-T837T using Tapatalk


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## ForumsAreDead (Dec 30, 2019)

*Topaz on 2019 Norco Sight*

Putting this in this thread since it is a pretty good resource for setup information.

I am 180 pounds, riding a size medium 2019 Norco Sight 29er.

The bike has a progressive leverage curve, going from 2.6 to 2.2:
Norco Sight Carbon 2018 - Linkage Design

I like a firm pedaling platform and the ability to pump the terrain for speed.

Right now my setup is:
2 negative volume spacers
0 positive spacers
165-175 psi main chamber pressure
180 psi bladder pressure

I first tried no volume spacers and I found a lack of mid-stroke support and only using about 70% travel. With this setup, I'm still only using 70% travel, but the mid stroke support is much better. I've though about putting a third negative spacer in, but I am going to ride this setup for awhile so I can stop fiddling for a bit.


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## ForumsAreDead (Dec 30, 2019)

So I couldn't stop fiddling. After watching Vorsprung's video on volume spacers and consulting the Norco Sight manuals, I decided to remove the negative spacers and put some positive ones in.

Norco Sight Manual says the OEM Rockshox Deluxe has a firm pedal tune and three tokens, so that suggests the designers expect a fairly progressive spring and some support from the damper.

New setup is:
2 positive volume spacers
0 negative spacers
160-165 psi main chamber pressure
180 psi bladder pressure
Rebound 2 clicks from fully open

This setup is significantly better. Feels much softer off the top and much better mid-stroke support. Technical climbing is better because it doesn't seem to hang up as much. Use of travel is similar, but the big hits don't feel as harsh.


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## Grunta (Jul 24, 2016)

@forumsaredead Im amazed (interesting ) your pressue in the main can is that low and you have support. Im max riding weight of 187, and run 220/230psi with no spacers. Was running 200psi with spacers but took them out. I was told by our local dvo suspension tech that the bladder is set and forget - made no difference, so i just leave it maxed out at 200psi.

Maybe i should start playing with the tunes a bit more, but Im a believer in set n forget till things feel **** (service time)


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## ForumsAreDead (Dec 30, 2019)

@Grunta
I think it depends a lot on your linkage. My Norco sight has a progressive leverage rate that runs from 2.6 at the beginning to 2.2 at the end. I originally set it up without spacers and 195-200 psi seemed to be the region where I had support, but it did not feel as nice off the top.

I originally went to lower pressures to see if I could get more travel. I've now made piece with the amount of travel I'm getting. I don't have enough big hits when I ride to get more than 41/55mm shock stroke with setups that are allowing me to pedal.

What aspect of your setup would you like to improve?


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## Grunta (Jul 24, 2016)

Fair enough, i always work on the theory that as long as the suspension feels good for the ride, thats all that matters.

Probably the biggest thing I dont like on the topaz is over the choppy stuff - where I ride we have consistant parts of a trail wheres theres nothing but roots for a reasonably length of the trail. I dont believe shock is packing up... Dunno. Ive put the jade coil back on to test it out again and see if theres much difference.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

I’m 165lbs and running 235 PSI on my Trance 29 to get 28-29% sag. 
2 volume spacers in each chamber (apparently that’s how giant spec’d the shock). 
Currently settled on 190PSI it the bladder.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Grunta said:


> Fair enough, i always work on the theory that as long as the suspension feels good for the ride, thats all that matters.
> 
> Probably the biggest thing I dont like on the topaz is over the choppy stuff - where I ride we have consistant parts of a trail wheres theres nothing but roots for a reasonably length of the trail. I dont believe shock is packing up... Dunno. Ive put the jade coil back on to test it out again and see if theres much difference.


Try the rebound faster through those sections. I found while tuning a Monarch+, the rebound shimstack made a massive difference on the rough sections of trail.

With a progressive airspring, I'm thinking "packing" has a bit different feel then maybe a coil spring. With a coil, your spring rate is linear so packing will literally push the bike further and further into the travel with each hit so it feels rougher and rougher as you go. With a progressive spring though, if it tried to pack deeper in the travel, the rate increases and will help offset that slow rebound. End results is (in my thought process anyway) the bike won't pack more and more into the travel, but it will pack down to a certain amount of travel and then tend to stay there. Overall, it doesn't get more and more harsh with each hit, it just feels harsh from hit one on because it never recovered the travel and now it's sitting at a higher spring rate then had it managed to recover the travel.

That's my thoughts anyway. I think it would make sense to have a progressive rebound damping curve on an airspring. Spring rate being progressive means your rebound speed will be higher on deep hits. Deep hits are when you really want that slower rebound to keep the bike from kicking you off. Small, fast hits will be lower down in the travel where the spring rate is lower and you'd want a lower damping rate to improve recovery speed. This is progressive damping, yet many airshocks use preloaded/digressive rebound damping...

Anybody have the shim stack details on the Topaz? I just picked one up to try out and just curious what's in there.


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## sp00n82 (Sep 23, 2013)

FastBanana said:


> In case anyone is interested, the 50, and 57mm stroke shocks, are physically the same. Just a addition/removal of a nylon spacer converts it. Confirmed by a DVO tech, just figured it may help someone out.
> 
> That said, a custom stroke between 50 and 57, is totally possible with some sanding, or a 3D printer.


Does anybody know if this is also the case for 63 and 57mm stroke, i.e. could I convert a 216x57 to a 216x63?


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

*Travel Spacer Help*

To remove the air canister body (the inner cylinder, to get to the travel spacer), do I just unscrew it from the shock?
Does the travel spacer go above (with the shock right-side-up) this washer?


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## JB450 (Mar 31, 2019)

slomtbr said:


> To remove the air canister body (the inner cylinder, to get to the travel spacer), do I just unscrew it from the shock?
> Does the travel spacer go above (with the shock right-side-up) this washer?
> View attachment 1316611


Yep, release air pressure and unscrew.

Spacer goes above the washer and o-ring.









Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

JB450 said:


> Yep, release air pressure and unscrew.
> 
> Spacer goes above the washer and o-ring.
> 
> ...


Thank you!

The washer and o-ring were out of order in my shock. Glad I opened it and caught it.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I have had a couple bike park rides on my Topaz now along with ~25 miles of desert/rock riding this weekend and the back of the bike has never felt better. The Topaz seems to be better matched to me, my bike, and the terrain I ride than any of the other setups I've tried. This includes Monarch+ (Debonair and HV cans with various damper tunes), Fox Float X2, CCDB Coil shock, Kage coil, and SR Suntour Triair.

Required 1 spacer in the positive side to get progression up to balance bottoming and suppleness. Haven't messed too much with the compression lever yet but probably will as it could probably use a bit more compression damping in the bike park.

The only issue I've noticed is I feel like the rebound curve might have some room for improvement. There is a trail I lap for suspension setup and one corner in particular I notice rebound changes more than anything else on. Rebound too slow usually means no traction and it gets pretty sketchy. Right now, I have to check speed on that corner but any faster on the rebound and it gets pretty dicey on jumps.



mike156 said:


> Anybody have the shim stack details on the Topaz? I just picked one up to try out and just curious what's in there.


Contacted DVO to get some rebound stack recommendations and got the stock stack info.

Stock stack
(2) 16x0.1
Piston is dished on the rebound side

They gave some recommendations on shim changes to deal with what I noted above. I'll probably tear into it before too long and try out a slightly different stack. But for now, this Topaz is feeling good.


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## B3nnyH (Aug 17, 2016)

Does anybody know when the high volume air can is going to be released? Any details on it? Seems like it would be good for people like me who own a sentinel with a topaz.


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## Jesse Hill (Dec 29, 2006)

mike156 said:


> Try the rebound faster through those sections. I found while tuning a Monarch+, the rebound shimstack made a massive difference on the rough sections of trail.
> 
> With a progressive airspring, I'm thinking "packing" has a bit different feel then maybe a coil spring. With a coil, your spring rate is linear so packing will literally push the bike further and further into the travel with each hit so it feels rougher and rougher as you go. With a progressive spring though, if it tried to pack deeper in the travel, the rate increases and will help offset that slow rebound. End results is (in my thought process anyway) the bike won't pack more and more into the travel, but it will pack down to a certain amount of travel and then tend to stay there. Overall, it doesn't get more and more harsh with each hit, it just feels harsh from hit one on because it never recovered the travel and now it's sitting at a higher spring rate then had it managed to recover the travel.
> 
> ...


I think you may be on to something here. I had my super deluxe tuned from Vorsprung and while there is more than one thing going on in the tune taking the rebound and linearising (not sure what the correct word would be) it is one of the changes made. RS was one of the bunch to also run digressive rebound tunes using ring shims. Their forks have since gone away from it but their rear shocks still use it and they are heavily preloaded according to one of the Tuesday tunes. If the Topaz piston itself is dished as you say further below then that's kind of a bummer since now your stuck with digressive (unless you have a mill).

Looking at the forks and different shocks I'm seeing a trend of progressive damping (or linearly progressive) becoming more common for off road use ex the new 11-6 being one of them. I believe it's more favored off road vehicles as well, just seems to make more sense when dealing with a lot of smaller rapid hits that are not harsh enough to blow open the high speed shims or meet the preloaded threshold.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Good news, you can deal with a dished piston without machining.

You simply use a small diameter shim between the piston and the first face shim to reduce the preload. You can effectively adjust or completely remove the amount of preload doing this.

DVO recommended the following shim stack:
-piston
- 11x0.1
- 16x0.1
- 13x0.1

The 11mm diameter shim is there to reduce the preload where the 13mm is there to stiffen up the HSR. I'm not sure how much dish is there yet as I haven't had it apart. I asked though if it eliminated the preload and was told it just reduces it so it's more then 0.1mm of dish.

I have done the same thing on the Monarch+ basevalve to tweak compression damping and the change was very noticeable, although I never really got it dialed in. Halving the preload for example doesn't seem to half the knee force so trying to quantify tuning changes isn't as straight forward as adding/removing shims in a non-preloaded straight stack.


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## p0is0n0ak (May 17, 2007)

*Topaz 3 on 5010 V.3*

So, I have been lurking in this thread off and on for about a year. Finally pulled the trigger on the Topaz 3 and the Sapphire 34 for my SC 5010v3. First off, I want to send a big thank you to all of you for posting your experiences and the results of your tuning adventures. I gleaned a tremendous amount of knowledge from all of your diligent reporting.

One thing I could never quite find was information pertinent to my specific bike, so now that my suspension feels really dialed, I wanted to throw out my findings. I am not a suspension expert, nor did I use any technology to arrive at my tune. This is all just one guy with 27 years of riding full suspension bikes under his belt, and I tend to trust my empirical observations.

So, for context, I am 6'2" and 230ish pounds ready to ride. The winter weight is melting off and I expect to spend most of the season at about 215. I ride an XL Santa Cruz 5010c V.3 w/the flip chip set to L. The bike also sports a Sapphire 34 currently set to 150mm (though I am considering reducing to 140mm, but that's another post).








FWIW, here are some of my findings and associated musings:

*Bladder: 198lb *

_I started out at 190lb, but soon discovered that the shock felt dead and harsh over high speed chunder. I attributed this to rebound, but soon realized this was probably the result of captivation, so I began to increase bladder pressure by 2 lb increments using a Fox Digital Shock Pump, and as I did, the shock came alive and remained active. Plus, the 3 position switch seems to make more difference as I add bladder pressure. _

*Main Can: 215lb*

_At 215 lb, I get what appears to be 27% sag. I generally prefer about 31-33%, based on the o-ring's proximity to the DVO etching on the shaft, this appears to be about right since the o-ring sits on the bottom edge of the graphic. I would prefer a bit more sag, but don't want to lower the pressure in the can too much. I always have to remind myself that the 5010 is very different from the BLTc I used to ride. The 5010 really is more like a rally car than a racing truck, and as a result, performs better when not running super plush. _

*Volume Reducers: 0-/3+*

_Maybe because of the low-ish can pressure, I was blowing through my mid stroke and bottoming out; though, not harshly. I didn't even realize I was bottoming out until I got home and checked the o-ring position with a caliper. So, even though I was bottoming out, it was difficult to notice and never harsh. I proceeded to add one volume reducer at a time to the positive side, and each time I felt more supported in the mid-stroke, but until #3, I was still bottoming out. I did not bottom out today after hitting everything on my test trail at high speed/intensity. I was most impressed after hitting a loose and chunky-ish 2 foot drop to flat. I could feel the progressive response as the shock soaked it up and rebounded perfectly. _

*Rebound: ~3-4 turns from open.*

_It seems like the more volume reducers I add to the positive side, the more I need to close down the rebound. I am still not quite at the perfect setting, and am wondering if that is possible. The bike definitely eats high speed chunder for breakfast with a perfect balance between plushness and activeness, and it sticks the landings on kickers and small drops; though, on slow speed dips, the bike is a bit bouncy. I could close down the rebound even more, but don't want to lose the high speed response, which I consider far more important. I will probably tweak a bit more, but not at the expense of high speed response. _

Overall, I am really happy with the shock. It really does stay plush while remaining active. It takes a little time to dial it in, but that is part of the fun. I have only been on it for about 2 weeks and really look forward to getting to know it better.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

I'm sorry for coming up (again) with that topic, but I'm still confused about the bleeding process because there are a lot of different approaches.
So, what is the easiest way to get rid of some trapped air?

- Shock in open mode, rebound full out.
- Releasing air from main and then bladder. 
- Remove air sleeve.
- open bleed screw and add syringe with enough 2.5 oil.
- cycle shock until no bubbles come out.
- reinstall air sleeve, pressurize bladder, than main can

If something is wrong or I've forgotten steps, please tell me why is (this step) is necessary. I wanna know what I'm doing instead of just following any steps stupidly.
Thanks!

Edit: 
I've tried it in the meantime, but have to repeat it because there's still air in the oil.
The problem is: if I open the bleed screw, there comes out a lot of oil with the air so I have to refill oil also every time. To refill oil, the bladder should be removed? Otherwise I would have to push the oil via syringe until ... 
Is it possible to refill oil just thru the bleeding screw without overfilling it? Can I leave the bladder under presure when open the bleeding screw of refill/bleed?

Edit II:
Thought I solved it yesterday by replacing two O rings of the body, cleaning and greasing the other rings/seals etc (replaced them all already a few months ago). Did a short ride today and this typical noise has returned. 

What are the typical (weak)points which can cause air in the oil?


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## payze (May 19, 2014)

Hello, I've got my topaz runing on my MDE carve (a 140mm travel frame with a suspension like ibis or Turner) for 10 month and i'm figuring out there's room for improvement.

First i'm about 65-66kg equiped, there is 140 psi in the shock for a 28% sag, 170psi in the bladder and 1 spacer in the positive chamber.

The riding doesn't feel overly plush despite the very low psi (comparing to the DVO chart which should be around 190psi) but the shock is quite active when you compress, so i guess the Carve is very progressive on the first part of travel, it's probably why it feels very efficient when pedaling, there's no need of using the switch.

But the annoying part is on repetitive hits like when you're bombing into roots, its feels not very composed compared to the formula selva up front, it's a real drawback for me.

I'm using full travel but that happens only on jumps, it doesn't feels harsh at all on bottom which is a good point.


In my case i've read a bit everywhere what i could tweak myself but i have no idea because : 
-i'm already having low PSI in the main chamber
-lowest psi in the bladder
-only 1 spacer in the positive which is for countering bottom out.

So I guess the using of spacer in negative or pumping up the bladder won't be any help.

I asume only a reshim could provide my a better feeling? what do you think?


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

payze said:


> Hello, I've got my topaz runing on my MDE carve (a 140mm travel frame with a suspension like ibis or Turner) for 10 month and i'm figuring out there's room for improvement.
> 
> First i'm about 65-66kg equiped, there is 140 psi in the shock for a 28% sag, 170psi in the bladder and 1 spacer in the positive chamber.
> 
> ...


Sounds like it's still supple off the top?

I'm no expert but it sounds like perhaps by running such low pressures that you're blowing through the mid stroke.

As a test, I would remove the pos spacer, increase aircan pressure significantly, adjust rebound accordingly, and disregard sag measurement for the time being.


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## payze (May 19, 2014)

thanks i will try it next time.

Today i rode and i played with the rebound, it felt better i think i had too slow rebound, now it's 3 steps from full open.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

payze said:


> Hello, I've got my topaz runing on my MDE carve (a 140mm travel frame with a suspension like ibis or Turner) for 10 month and i'm figuring out there's room for improvement.
> 
> First i'm about 65-66kg equiped, there is 140 psi in the shock for a 28% sag, 170psi in the bladder and 1 spacer in the positive chamber.
> 
> ...


I'd probably disregard sag for the moment and check a few other things:
- double check with some carpark bouncing that both fork and shock are compressing/rebounding at the same speed. Might be pogo-ing between the two. 
- increase the pressure in the Bladder. 170PSI is the minimum required to prevent cavitation in the shock and great for a nice plush trail feel. But possibly too soft for bombing into repetitive roots and rocks. It might not be enough to recover/rebound the shock fast enough and it's packing down. This needs to be set to your riding style it's not really a weight driven thing. 
- 140 PSI seems really low, try the recommended pressure and see how it feels. 
I'm 76kg equiped on a trance and have 235PSI in the can and 190PSI in the bladder.


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## payze (May 19, 2014)

So, yesterday i rode with a bit more pressure 160 psi, still 1 spacer, and 175psi in bladder and no change for the rebound 3 steps from open.

It didn't felt less active on small bumps, i don't think i lost any comfort.

The shock was reading much better the terrain and didn't seem to bounce me off the bike.

On jumps it felt right, no front diving and no full travel used, still 5-7mm of stroke left.

So next time i will remove the spacer and try a little more psi. i don't think i'll go 190 psi as recommended from dvo because i will never use all the travel with that pressure. 

But something in between like 170-175psi should be dialed!

Thanks for help:thumbsup:


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

payze said:


> So, yesterday i rode with a bit more pressure 160 psi, still 1 spacer, and 175psi in bladder and no change for the rebound 3 steps from open.
> 
> It didn't felt less active on small bumps, i don't think i lost any comfort.
> 
> ...


Are you making sure the negative chamber is equalized after airing the shock back up or changing pressures?


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## payze (May 19, 2014)

Yep i do it everytime I air it


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Hmm well as long as it's working well now.

I do remember running a lower pressure when my Topaz was new. I had to increase pressure but figured I was just pushing the shock harder. I'm 68kg and just upped it to 195psi with 185 in the reservoir. Two spacers on negative side, I didn't like the progressive rate with positive spacers.


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## payze (May 19, 2014)

So i tried uping the pressure, but it didn't work better and it was very hard using full travel (like 1cm of stroke left after the ride)

So i went back to 160psi with no spacer in the chamber, this way i still have 2mm of stroke left after a drop to flat ground.

But afterall my main problem is gone and i think the issue was the rebound too slow causing the shock to pack on roots/rocks.


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## hmai18 (Apr 19, 2020)

Looking for some tuning input with a 2019 Trance Adv with the Giant-tuned Topaz since I've been having difficulty utilizing full travel, even on my most aggressive riding. I don't think I've ever used more than 38-39mm of the available 42.5mm stroke.


I weigh 140lb geared and have been running 185PSI in the shock and 170PSI in the bladder to achieve 28-30% sag.
I ride mostly on the North Shore and Squamish in BC.
Terrain is a mix of steeps, roots, and some rock but not huge boulder fields.
I'm pretty careful with lines and ride at moderate speed; I don't tend to charge through rock gardens and my wheels mostly stay on the the ground. I'll pop off the occasional trail feature or a 1-2 foot step down, but I'm not taking large drops.

Finally opened the air can and found 3(+) and 2(-) installed earlier this week. I dropped down to 2(+) and 1(-) today on my usual loop and still wasn't using the full travel on the bigger hits.

Given my weight, I'm thinking that my next step is 0(+) to dial down that end stroke progressiveness and 1(-) to maintain mid-stroke pedaling performance?


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## Grunta (Jul 24, 2016)

hmai18 said:


> Looking for some tuning input with a 2019 Trance Adv with the Giant-tuned Topaz since I've been having difficulty utilizing full travel, even on my most aggressive riding. I don't think I've ever used more than 38-39mm of the available 42.5mm stroke.
> 
> 
> I weigh 140lb geared and have been running 185PSI in the shock and 170PSI in the bladder to achieve 28-30% sag.
> ...


Try taking all spacers out and tune with air, and then if you feel the need, use some spacers.

Your trails sound similar to what I ride over here in NZ, and im around 84kg geared up (190lbs ish) and I run 200 - 210psi in main can, and 200psi in bladder and the only time I use full travel is when I **** up haha, and even then, I don't even feel it as a harsh bottom out. In most of my usual rides I don't use full travel in the gnarly ****. Shock still feels good, so not using full travel doesn't bother me tbh, unless there was heaps of travel not being used.

If you like the way the shock is feeling/working, then just go ride and have fun 

*EDIT- I'm on a reign, but that makes no difference.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Anyone used this shock on a 2017 Reign? I’m just over 200lbs (92kg) ready to ride and I’m running 200 psi in the bladder, 270 psi air and 5 spacers in the positive air chamber, none in the negative and 3 clicks rebound. Climbing traction is ok in the middle position for the switch, anything super technical I will run the switch open but that does have some pedal bob on smoother ground. A little chatter in fast repetitive small hits, good pop for jumps and bottom out support is ok, I definitely bottom out on 5 foot drops. My main loop has a dozen or so drops in the 3 to 4 foot range, I usually have 2-3mm of travel left on the o-ring. Do I need to send it back to dvo for a custom tune? Seems like a lot of air pressure. The bike came stock with a dhx2 coil that I used a 550lb spring for the same terrain.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Have you compared it to a second gauge?

I'm similar weight and running 220psi with only one spacer in the positive side. I'd say similar behavior where 3-4' drops takes most, but not all travel.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Are these 5' drops to flat? One trail I go to has 5' to 6' drops but the landings are steep so it doesn't take much travel at all. 5' to flat I'd expect anything but a freeride bike to bottom out on.

At 160lbs the compression damping feels good for my weight if not a little on the soft side. So I could see it being soft for a 200lbs rider.


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

mike156 said:


> Have you compared it to a second gauge?
> 
> I'm similar weight and running 220psi with only one spacer in the positive side. I'd say similar behavior where 3-4' drops takes most, but not all travel.


Two different ones that are within 5psi


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## yzedf (Apr 22, 2014)

Fajita Dave said:


> Are these 5' drops to flat? One trail I go to has 5' to 6' drops but the landings are steep so it doesn't take much travel at all. 5' to flat I'd expect anything but a freeride bike to bottom out on.
> 
> At 160lbs the compression damping feels good for my weight if not a little on the soft side. So I could see it being soft for a 200lbs rider.


Yes they are to almost flat. Same 5' drop on my YT Tues dh bike doesn't bottom out (much more progressive suspension design but with x2 air shock).

Good to know I'm not nuts LOL


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

hmai18 said:


> Looking for some tuning input with a 2019 Trance Adv with the Giant-tuned Topaz since I've been having difficulty utilizing full travel, even on my most aggressive riding. I don't think I've ever used more than 38-39mm of the available 42.5mm stroke.
> 
> 
> I weigh 140lb geared and have been running 185PSI in the shock and 170PSI in the bladder to achieve 28-30% sag.
> ...


Double up from the trance thread, but:

I reckon your already pretty much at ideal setup. I purposely set my suspension up to never use full travel under controlled riding. I like to keep the last few mm for when I get it wrong or out of control.

Try 2/2 first. That will keep the same mid stroke support you've got but just let you use that last few mm.


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

Looking at rebuilding my Topaz, and torn between a few options for oils - mostly considering Redline Extralight or WPL Shockboost. May bleed the charger damper on my Lyrik too, so getting one oil for both projects would be ideal.

My main concern with Extralight is that it will be too light for the damper (not sure if weight plays a part, I'm 210-220), but I'm also worried that the WPL is too viscous. Just interested in the WPL stuff because it's biobased. Probably overthinking here, but thoughts are appreciated. Discuss!

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I have a bottle of the WPL 2.5wt sitting on my shelf now. Haven't serviced the shock yet but I find the damping is still a bit on the light side for me anyway.

Oil isn't that expensive, I'd go with the biodegradable options just for that principal alone. If it's to firm switch to Redline.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Just bought a DVO Topaz T3 for my Focus Jam2 Carbon ebike. It is replacing the stock DPS Fox shock. First ride out of the box and it appears to be leaking oil from the bladder reservoir where it screws in. I checked it for tightness and it is very tight. I only rode it for 45 min with 170 psi in the bladder and 160 psi in the shock. I was also using a borrowed shockwiz which led me to 6 clicks from fully closed on the compression damping but no volume changes needed. I started with 4. 

Since this bike is light for an ebike, 45 lbs and I'm only 160 lbs with gear this results in not using all of the travel with 30% sag. I'm took a rougher rocky ride to try to get it to use as much travel as possible but there's still 16 mm left out of 55 mm travel today. My thought is that maybe a negative volume spacer or two will allow me to lower the pressure with the same sag and use more of the travel. I might also try 150 psi but I don't think that will be enough change and more sag than I'd like. I had a similar issue with the FOX dps on this bike without any volume spacers and not using 13mm of the travel with 30% sag and 140 psi.

I guess I'll have some time to think about this since the shock is brand new I'll have to send it back unfortunately. I had a number of delays getting this which I won't go into so this is the 3rd setback so far. Thanks


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

sdcoffeeroaster said:


> Just bought a DVO Topaz T3 for my Focus Jam2 Carbon ebike. It is replacing the stock DPS Fox shock. First ride out of the box and it appears to be leaking oil from the bladder reservoir where it screws in. I checked it for tightness and it is very tight. I only rode it for 45 min with 170 psi in the bladder and 160 psi in the shock. I was also using a borrowed shockwiz which led me to 6 clicks from fully closed on the compression damping but no volume changes needed. I started with 4.
> 
> Since this bike is light for an ebike, 45 lbs and I'm only 160 lbs with gear this results in not using all of the travel with 30% sag. I'm took a rougher rocky ride to try to get it to use as much travel as possible but there's still 16 mm left out of 55 mm travel today. My thought is that maybe a negative volume spacer or two will allow me to lower the pressure with the same sag and use more of the travel. I might also try 150 psi but I don't think that will be enough change and more sag than I'd like. I had a similar issue with the FOX dps on this bike without any volume spacers and not using 13mm of the travel with 30% sag and 140 psi.
> 
> I guess I'll have some time to think about this since the shock is brand new I'll have to send it back unfortunately. I had a number of delays getting this which I won't go into so this is the 3rd setback so far. Thanks


Deffinetly contact DVO about a potential leak.

The Topaz doesn't have any compression damping adjustment besides the three position switch for low speed compression. The dial in front of the reservoir is for rebound damping.

I'd let the shock break in a bit before being concerned about how much travel you're using. Positive and negative volume spacers will make the shock firmer toward the end of its stroke so you might end up using even less travel at 30% sag. Just need to hit stuff harder.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Fajita Dave said:


> Deffinetly contact DVO about a potential leak.
> 
> The Topaz doesn't have any compression damping adjustment besides the three position switch for low speed compression. The dial in front of the reservoir is for rebound damping.
> 
> I'd let the shock break in a bit before being concerned about how much travel you're using. Positive and negative volume spacers will make the shock firmer toward the end of its stroke so you might end up using even less travel at 30% sag. Just need to hit stuff harder.


I had planned to just add a negative volume spacers but will hold off for now. I know the positive is not what I want and would use less of the stroke for sure.

DVO doesn't think it's a leak but just residual oil in the threads and on this side of the o-ring which might be true. I lowered the pressure to 150 and I'll try to find some sections that should bottom it out on my next ride. Once I adjusted the rebound damping (maybe I mistakenly said compression, sorry) most of the values were at nomiinal on my short ride with shockwiz, even the pressure according to shockwiz. So far I like the shock a lot and need to ride it more. I did clean up what oil I could with soapy water and a tooth brush, rinse and some air. DVO didn't want me using isopropyl alcohol. It looks really dry now for my next ride. I don't want to have to send it back so I hope it's not weeping oil. Thanks


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

I didn't notice that my DVO shock actually has 67 mm of available stroke length but is a 55 mm travel shock. So if the o-ring is at about 12 mm from the bottom of the travel then it is using full travel. Issue solved but different from Fox shocks I've seen.

I"m posting my "leak" pic to see if others that use the DVO shock see the same thing and if this is normal. I cleaned the shock with soapy water and a soft tooth brush, clean rise and dried it really well. It looks like this after every ride like it's weeping a bit during the ride. If this is normal then I'll ignore it but it doesn't look normal to me. thanks


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Mine haven't looked like that. I'd try to get a hold of Ronnie and send that pic to him.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> Mine haven't looked like that. I'd try to get a hold of Ronnie and send that pic to him.


I did send it to Geoff over at DVO (he showed it to the techs too) and we've agreed to monitor it this week. They initially said it was probably only residual oil on the surface but several cleanings later refutes that I think. I'm sure they will take care of it if I insist. I've cleaned it up twice now and after about a 23 mile ride it always looks like this. I am going to hate to have to send it back because it is such a huge improvement over my Fox DPS that came on my Focus Jam2 ebike. Not harsh, supportive but plush and so much better now than my budget Fox 34 Rhythm fork that I might have to upgrade that too.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Those guys will take care of you no doubt. It's definitely worth it to work through any glitches IMO, and free custom tunes/tweaks have been known to happen occasionally in the process.

:thumbsup:


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> Those guys will take care of you no doubt. It's definitely worth it to work through any glitches IMO, and free custom tunes/tweaks have been known to happen occasionally in the process.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Thanks. They are currently insisting it's "sweating" (implying a porous surface), a term that as a mechanical engineer and former motorcycle mechanic makes zero sense to me. They will fix it if I send it back but won't replace it. I sold my old shock so my bike would be down for 1-2 weeks with the way the mail is now. I really didn't need this now. The mail screwed up shipping it to me back and forth twice on the west coast and that was after waiting 2-3 weeks for the shock. Then it came to me missing the upper shock bushing so had to wait for that and now this. I'm a patient and understanding person but I know this is not "right". Here is my 3rd ride with it, 3rd soapy water cleaning and still oozing fresh clean light oil. Doesn't look like "sweating" does it, lol. I plan to clean it again and ride it some more several more times to see if it will stop. I do have strong doubts now.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

my first topaz t3 did that 'dust capturing' for just a few rides then stopped...so 'build residue' on threads is common. but it should clean up and stay clean right away


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> my first topaz t3 did that 'dust capturing' for just a few rides then stopped...so 'build residue' on threads is common. but it should clean up and stay clean right away


Yes I agree so I'm going to do the soapy water, clean rinse and blow the residue off once again and ride it tomorrow. I can't see this going on much longer if it's just residue. I noticed this on my first short ride up the street...started out dry and was damp after. But the longer rides wet it a lot mostly on the right side which leads me to believe it just coming down from rebound adjuster and then running down. That last pic looks that way to me.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

My DVO shock will go back next week to have the leak fixed. While I have it I decided to do some tuning. AT 150 psi, 30+% sag I'm only using about 42mm out of 55mm of travel. I added two negative volume spacers and the pressure set to 135 psi and a bit less than 30% sag I'm using 47 mm riding the same route. Next week I'll try 130 psi which should be about 30% sag and see if I can get a bit closer to at least 50mm of travel with 5mm margin for really huge hits. The negative spacers seem to do exactly what they claim which is pretty cool!


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## Roding (Jun 2, 2020)

Hi Everyone!

I really need some help.
Im looking at upgrading my rear shock to a topaz air. But to make it fit I have to change bushings but I cant find out which ones to buy.

I´m riding a commencal meta trail v.4.2 with a Deluxe RT today.
It´s a metric shock with 210*50mm so thats not a problem, it start after this.
In the technical documentation it says like this,

SHOCK LENGTH / STROKE	Metric standard 210 x 50 mm
SHOCK BUSHINGS	20 x 10 mm / 15 x 10 mm

But it really doesnt help me... 
I need to find out what bushings I need to change to and which mounting kit I need.
Can you please help me so that i can get a topaz and enjoy it! 

// Andreas


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Roding said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I really need some help.
> Im looking at upgrading my rear shock to a topaz air. But to make it fit I have to change bushings but I cant find out which ones to buy.
> ...


I can't answer your question directly, but I also switched from a Deluxe RT to a Topaz. I pressed the bushings out of the RS shock and into the Topaz.

The difference in performance was massive. The Deluxe would either pack up or try to toss me with one click of rebound each way. I hated it. The Topaz is a million times better in every way.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Perhaps you can take out the existing bushings/reducers and use them in the new shock?

Edit: Yea, what curveball said.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> Those guys will take care of you no doubt. It's definitely worth it to work through any glitches IMO, and free custom tunes/tweaks have been known to happen occasionally in the process.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Yes Ronnie did do a tweak or two for me. The oil was nothing really. That area is lubed during assy, no seal or o-ring and the lube was just a bit too much and would have stopped in time. I now have 2 pos spacers and one negative running only 130 psi, about30+ sag and not yet using all the travel (45 out of 55mm).

The shock feels pretty good and will stick with this for a bit while I break it in. I might pull one pos. spacer out but Ronnie seems to think that with lighter riders like me I need progression and less wallowing and better mid range support. I have to say after one ride he's probably right and I also put two vol spacers in my fox 34 Rhythm for the same reason. Sort of goes against what I might have done not using all the travel with correct sag but I think it works.


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## Vonplatz (Sep 28, 2011)

I own a Starling Murmur and I have a DVO Topaz as rear shock. The bike is a single pivot with a linear spring rate.

I have 2 token in the positive chamber and 1 in the negative. 200psi in the shock 200psi in the bladder. I weigh 79kg (12.44st, 174lbs).

I feel like the shock blows through its travel too easily. I blow the o ring off the shaft without having hit anything very hard and I can get the o ring within mm of the end the shaft by compressing the bike with my weight jumping as hard as I can on the pedals.

Does anyone else have these issues? Perhaps I have a faulty unit....

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Vonplatz said:


> I own a Starling Murmur and I have a DVO Topaz as rear shock. The bike is a single pivot with a linear spring rate.
> 
> I have 2 token in the positive chamber and 1 in the negative. 200psi in the shock 200psi in the bladder. I weigh 79kg (12.44st, 174lbs).
> 
> ...


I found the damping on this shock is a bit soft for me but you probably could use a bit more pressure in your shock anyway. I'm 160lbs riding weight and run 200psi at 25% sag with 1 negative and 1 positive spacer. It does bottom a bit easy on drops but feels great through rock gardens. If I need more bottom out resistance adding another 1 or 2 positive spacers take care of it but I don't like the progressive spring rate.

I'd say try a little more air pressure. If it still blows through the travel add another positive spacer.


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## Vonplatz (Sep 28, 2011)

I get through this much travel doing a bunny hop from a slow roll at 140psi. Normal?









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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Vonplatz said:


> I get through this much travel doing a bunny hop from a slow roll at 140psi. Normal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Depends on how you ride and personal preference. Go for a ride you typically do and see how much travel you use.

If you still use to much travel either try 210psi or if you still want a soft initial travel add a positive volume spacer.

It's pretty normal to use about 80% of travel on a bunny hop with the three position switch in the open setting.


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## Vonplatz (Sep 28, 2011)

My mistake, I meant 240!

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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Vonplatz said:


> My mistake, I meant 240!
> 
> Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


I'd still just ride it as you normally would. Bunny hop tests aren't all that accurate compared to actually riding. I have a 4ft drop in my yard (to a downslope) and use about the same travel as I do on a bunny hop.

Mess with your pressures till it feels good. If you need bottom out resistance add a positive spacer. I very much doubt anything is wrong with the shock and if there is DVO will definitely help you out. Including tuning info if you decide to open up the shock yourself and play with the shim stack.


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## Vonplatz (Sep 28, 2011)

Fajita Dave said:


> I'd still just ride it as you normally would. Bunny hop tests aren't all that accurate compared to actually riding. I have a 4ft drop in my yard (to a downslope) and use about the same travel as I do on a bunny hop.
> 
> Mess with your pressures till it feels good. If you need bottom out resistance add a positive spacer. I very much doubt anything is wrong with the shock and if there is DVO will definitely help you out. Including tuning info if you decide to open up the shock yourself and play with the shim stack.


Thanks for the advice dude!

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Roding said:


> Hi Everyone!
> 
> I really need some help.
> Im looking at upgrading my rear shock to a topaz air. But to make it fit I have to change bushings but I cant find out which ones to buy.
> ...


Like someone else said you just reuse the bushings. The stationary cream colored bushing pressed into the shock can be removed but I just bought new ones. DVO sells the entire kit with the bushings and their O-rings. https://dvosuspension.com/product/igus-du-bushings-kit-2/

The pin and side spacers are unique for each particular bike and should be reused. I put together a pullers to remove the pins with long machine screw, various washers, a nut and the right size socket as a spacer to clear that pin as I pressed it out. Mine was too tight to just push out. The new one installed by hand.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Fajita Dave said:


> Depends on how you ride and personal preference. Go for a ride you typically do and see how much travel you use.
> 
> If you still use to much travel either try 210psi or if you still want a soft initial travel add a positive volume spacer.
> 
> It's pretty normal to use about 80% of travel on a bunny hop with the three position switch in the open setting.


It's interesting to see how the various suspensions along with the how hard various riders ride all can drastically affect the amount of pressure needed. I'm at 30% sag and only 130 psi and only using about 45 out to 55mm of the travel and weight 160 lbs with all my gear. But my Focus suspension is degressive to 30% and progressive after that. Ronnie did recommend using 2 pos spacers and 1 neg and it didn't really affect the max travel very much but really reduced mid-range wallowing. And I'm sure if I did go off a 4 foot drop that extra 10mm of shock travel would come in handy.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Agree this ^^^ is interesting. I’m 170lbs fully loaded with 235PSI 28% sag and 40 of 42.5 mm travel on my Trance 29


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Bluman8 said:


> Agree this ^^^ is interesting. I'm 170lbs fully loaded with 235PSI 28% sag and 40 of 42.5 mm travel on my Trance 29


Yes I'm sure I would use more of my travel if I hit larger drops, etc. Most of my rides lately are pretty easy and since I was injured Nov 2018 I've been a bit more conservative, lol. My Focus FOLD suspension is a bit weird and tougher to get a shock tuned for it. Even the stock Fox DPS was not all that good. The DVO was a huge improvement right away and much less wallowing and more control.


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## deno85 (Dec 29, 2014)

Vonplatz said:


> I own a Starling Murmur and I have a DVO Topaz as rear shock. The bike is a single pivot with a linear spring rate.
> 
> I have 2 token in the positive chamber and 1 in the negative. 200psi in the shock 200psi in the bladder. I weigh 79kg (12.44st, 174lbs).
> 
> ...


I would suggest keep adding bands to the positive chamber. I ride a Commencal Meta V4 which is a single-pivot linkage driven. I ended up calling Ronnie when I got mine as I was struggling to not blow through the travel with sag around 20%

I'm a pretty aggressive rider, weight 155lbs geared up and I have my settings as follows:

PSI: 180
Bladder: 180
Rebound: 4 from open
4 spacers in pos. chamber (I even had 5 for awhile)

The only time I ever blow the o ring off now is on 1 road gap I do sometimes, but it's a pretty harsh landing, and even then I don't "feel" bottom on the Topaz.


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## Mattyj858 (Jun 9, 2020)

Same here, added two spacers and now I am dripping oil? 
I’m 190, ride with a pack and have it set to 235


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## slimat99 (May 21, 2008)

I would like more beginning stroke support. Sag is at 30% on a 17 rocky slayer. I've shrunk the neg chamber with 3 bands, nothing in the positive, 200 in the bladder. My bike pedals horribly when open. DH bike levels of bob. Forget about out of the saddle sprints. It's hyper sensitive off the top with no interest in dealing with pedaling forces. I ride it almost entirely in the mid setting because of that, and I need the climb setting to really settle down activity which I never needed with the oem super deluxe. I'm pretty much out of adjustments for the neg but I believe I can put one more band in there which will fill it up. Before this frame I was running shocks with independent SLC which I'm really missing. Any tricks to help me out? Do I need to play with the shims? My bike is very progressive so I don't want to do anything that will effect end stroke. I wish DVO would provide for independent SLC with the no brainer lever like the fox dpx2.


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## Phoenix864 (Oct 14, 2017)

slimat99 said:


> I would like more beginning stroke support. Sag is at 30% on a 17 rocky slayer. I've shrunk the neg chamber with 3 bands, nothing in the positive, 200 in the bladder. My bike pedals horribly when open. DH bike levels of bob. Forget about out of the saddle sprints. It's hyper sensitive off the top with no interest in dealing with pedaling forces. I ride it almost entirely in the mid setting because of that, and I need the climb setting to really settle down activity which I never needed with the oem super deluxe. I'm pretty much out of adjustments for the neg but I believe I can put one more band in there which will fill it up. Before this frame I was running shocks with independent SLC which I'm really missing. Any tricks to help me out? Do I need to play with the shims? My bike is very progressive so I don't want to do anything that will effect end stroke. I wish DVO would provide for independent SLC with the no brainer lever like the fox dpx2.


I may be misremembering, but from my understanding the only difference between open and medium on the lockout is that open bypasses the LSC circuit - effectively the shock has no LSC. Medium engages LSC - HSC should be unaffected, so there shouldn't be a performance difference at speed. I just run the shock in the middle position - I can't feel a different between open and mid on the downs.

It would be nice if the Topaz had external LSC. For most of us, I feel a adjustable, well tuned shock beats out a climb switch any day.


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## ForumsAreDead (Dec 30, 2019)

slimat99 said:


> I would like more beginning stroke support. Sag is at 30% on a 17 rocky slayer. I've shrunk the neg chamber with 3 bands, nothing in the positive, 200 in the bladder. My bike pedals horribly when open. DH bike levels of bob. Forget about out of the saddle sprints. It's hyper sensitive off the top with no interest in dealing with pedaling forces. I ride it almost entirely in the mid setting because of that, and I need the climb setting to really settle down activity which I never needed with the oem super deluxe. I'm pretty much out of adjustments for the neg but I believe I can put one more band in there which will fill it up. Before this frame I was running shocks with independent SLC which I'm really missing. Any tricks to help me out? Do I need to play with the shims? My bike is very progressive so I don't want to do anything that will effect end stroke. I wish DVO would provide for independent SLC with the no brainer lever like the fox dpx2.


I originally went the route you did for more mid-stroke support: added more negative bands. I wasn't using full travel, and I got it to perform satisfactorily on my 19 Norco Sight. I was thinking the same as you: I didn't want to affect the end stroke before I was already not using much of the travel.

Not satisfied I went the other way: I removed all negative chamber spacers, and started adding them to the positive. I ended up with more mid stroke support AND I used more the the travel regularly. I like it much better with bands in positive.

I would first recommend adding pressure until you get the mid-stroke you like, and note how much travel you end up using. Then, try switching it around and removing all negative chamber spacers and add one or two spacers to the positive. Set the pressure for the mid-stroke feel, and see how much travel you use. I wouldn't get locked into the sag % as the "correct" pressure. My sag varied from 22%-31% when I was experimenting.


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## slimat99 (May 21, 2008)

ForumsAreDead said:


> I originally went the route you did for more mid-stroke support: added more negative bands. I wasn't using full travel, and I got it to perform satisfactorily on my 19 Norco Sight. I was thinking the same as you: I didn't want to affect the end stroke before I was already not using much of the travel.
> 
> Not satisfied I went the other way: I removed all negative chamber spacers, and started adding them to the positive. I ended up with more mid stroke support AND I used more the the travel regularly. I like it much better with bands in positive.
> 
> I would first recommend adding pressure until you get the mid-stroke you like, and note how much travel you end up using. Then, try switching it around and removing all negative chamber spacers and add one or two spacers to the positive. Set the pressure for the mid-stroke feel, and see how much travel you use. I wouldn't get locked into the sag % as the "correct" pressure. My sag varied from 22%-31% when I was experimenting.


Thanks for the input. I'm happy with mid and end stroke. I get my travel when I should, and don't wallow around in the mid stroke. My only complaint is under damped LSC even in mid.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

I agree with you. Very little change on the lsc. Apparently this can be modified.

I feel the shock sets up too deep based on the size of the neg chamber and its equalization position. Id rather see a higher equalization position.

Ive installed my own offset bushing to counter act the sag being so great. This has been my fix.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Considering you can put the topaz reservoir on a Monarch+, I have to wonder if Vorsprung or avalanche will modify the Topaz with their base valves.

I haven't had a chance to do a back to back set of runs on the same trail trying the Topaz in open vs mid position. But I'd agree in general, I can't feel any real difference between them and have been using the mid position on everything.

Anybody have the Topaz base valve shim stack and adjuster details? I would bet you could gain some LSC in the mid position with a base valve shim adjustment.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Has anyone else had problems trying to equalize their shock. Mine started acting up about a week ago. I was checking the air and it suddenly went way past my target with a couple of pump. So I removed the pump, stroked the shock and tried again...probably 5 times. Then I tried going way past my target up to 200 psi, still not really getting that last 10-20 psi to hit 140 psi. I totally deflated it, check the volume spacers (I aligned the gaps this time to maybe help with the equalization) and repeated the procedure, 50 psi at a time. This time, while it took longer than my FOX DPS to equalize, it was at least possible. So the question is do I have to totally deflate my shock every month or so to prevent this from repeating? Thanks


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

It's pretty easy to displace the o-ring that separates the positive and negative chambers between the inner and outer can, I would check that it is aligned in its gland first.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

half_man_half_scab said:


> It's pretty easy to displace the o-ring that separates the positive and negative chambers between the inner and outer can, I would check that it is aligned in its gland first.


I did look today and that o-ring is in place. I'm careful to put the cover back on gently with a twist if necessary to insure that o-ring isn't dislodged. Thanks


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Duplicate


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

sdcoffeeroaster said:


> I did look today and that o-ring is in place. I'm careful to put the cover back on gently with a twist if necessary to insure that o-ring isn't dislodged. Thanks


It seems better after letting all the air out and starting over again. A suggestion from DVO is to change the valve core out and I will go that if this continues to be an issue. It sort of acts like a stuck valve core, just pressurizing the pump and not the shock, but why it "misbehaves just as the pressure gets above 100 psi is a question. I have two pumps and both of work fine on the forks so that suggestion from DVO of a bad pump is sort of out too. I never had an issue like this with the FOX DPS shock once I got up operating pressure. They all sort of act like this during initial equalization.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

all I know about topaz is you gotta pump it up like 30 lbs, cycle it, pump more, cycle it...all the way to the final pressure you want, if it started at zero. otherwise it seems 'stuck'. when I got mine first time I was ...this thing is busted. but by cycling it I guess that makes the pressure fill pos and neg properly


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

127.0.0.1 said:


> all I know about topaz is you gotta pump it up like 30 lbs, cycle it, pump more, cycle it...all the way to the final pressure you want, if it started at zero. otherwise it seems 'stuck'. when I got mine first time I was ...this thing is busted. but by cycling it I guess that makes the pressure fill pos and neg properly


Yes and that is pretty standard and I had to do that with my FOX Dps as well. It works great until I got to about 120 psi, wanted about 140. It took me 6 cycles of doing that to get just 20 psi in. Every time I tried to bring it up 1 or two pumps brought it up 50-75 psi more! This is a new behavior for my Topaz.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

It might be that there is just a lot of grease and dirt in the air can seals, so that the equalising dimple gets stuck and air can't properly move between positive and negative side.

Another one could be if you have a volume spacer covering the hole where air enters between inner and outer (positive or negative) air chamber, that could mess up the equalisation. I think this should not normally happen, as the holes are located on slightly elevated plane, but could be that slightly moved spacer could block that...


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

sdcoffeeroaster said:


> Has anyone else had problems trying to equalize their shock. Mine started acting up about a week ago. I was checking the air and it suddenly went way past my target with a couple of pump. So I removed the pump, stroked the shock and tried again...probably 5 times. Then I tried going way past my target up to 200 psi, still not really getting that last 10-20 psi to hit 140 psi. I totally deflated it, check the volume spacers (I aligned the gaps this time to maybe help with the equalization) and repeated the procedure, 50 psi at a time. This time, while it took longer than my FOX DPS to equalize, it was at least possible. So the question is do I have to totally deflate my shock every month or so to prevent this from repeating? Thanks


How long has it been since the shock was serviced? You might just need some new seals.

Right at 100 hours for my Topaz the piston seal started leaking by while riding. After compressing the shock air was leaking past the seal charging the negative side to a high PSI leaving it sucked down.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Fajita Dave said:


> How long has it been since the shock was serviced? You might just need some new seals.
> 
> Right at 100 hours for my Topaz the piston seal started leaking by while riding. After compressing the shock air was leaking past the seal charging the negative side to a high PSI leaving it sucked down.


It's only about a month old.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

Verttii said:


> It might be that there is just a lot of grease and dirt in the air can seals, so that the equalising dimple gets stuck and air can't properly move between positive and negative side.
> 
> Another one could be if you have a volume spacer covering the hole where air enters between inner and outer (positive or negative) air chamber, that could mess up the equalisation. I think this should not normally happen, as the holes are located on slightly elevated plane, but could be that slightly moved spacer could block that...


So the volume spacers won't stay in that position during use will they? Just putting the cover on would push the positive spacer up covering the holes and vibrations would probably lead to all of them ending up down with the negative one covering that hole? Or are they tight enough to be locked in place?

One good test maybe is to just take out the one negative spacer I have in place (have 2 positive spacers like you). I didn't realize there were two holes which I will check today for blockage. It was pretty clean when I took it apart last time. Thanks


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

sdcoffeeroaster said:


> So the volume spacers won't stay in that position during use will they? Just putting the cover on would push the positive spacer up covering the holes and vibrations would probably lead to all of them ending up down with the negative one covering that hole? Or are they tight enough to be locked in place?
> 
> One good test maybe is to just take out the one negative spacer I have in place (have 2 positive spacers like you). I didn't realize there were two holes which I will check today for blockage. It was pretty clean when I took it apart last time. Thanks


If you have even a little grease between the spacer and the can body, I believe those spacers won't move at all during normal use. The spacer is very light, but it has a lot of surface area against the can body, so capillary forces will keep them put no matter how much you shake the shock. But if you don't have any grease there, then the spacers might move a little.

The problem might appear when you slide the outer sleeve in place or if you install the spacers in a bit sloppy way and one spacer might slide just a bit to cover the small hole and block the air way. It might be that if this happens, the air can flow from inner main can to the sleeve but not back from sleeve to the main can, as pressure would push the spacer against the hole...

So, just be careful when you install the spacer(s) and slide the sleeve back and it should be fine...


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

I recently got hold of one of these shocks on a second hand bike I bought, and I'm just getting it set up... 
During the process I've noticed that the actual stroke the shock is moving is 53mm, which is not quite what I was expecting since it's a 210x55 shock.

Does this sound wrong or is this expected with this shock?
I know it's only 2mm difference, but this makes a significant difference to rear wheel travel, so i'd really like to get the full 55mm of stroke if possible.

The shock is pretty new and in great condition, and apparently was professionally serviced just before I received it.


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

Paco Loco said:


> I recently got hold of one of these shocks on a second hand bike I bought, and I'm just getting it set up...
> During the process I've noticed that the actual stroke the shock is moving is 53mm, which is not quite what I was expecting since it's a 210x55 shock.
> 
> Does this sound wrong or is this expected with this shock?
> ...


There could be a 2.5mm travel reducer installed.


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

Ok, two questions for everyone. Currently in the process of rebuilding my Topaz, and wondering if anyone has thoughts on doing anything custom for a V2 Bronson. I asked DVO when I was on the phone with them but they didn't really have anything for me. So, would love to hear any experiences with that. Second, I scratched my damper shaft when trying to rebuild the shock last weekend, so I'll be putting a new one on this week. Are there instructions for that anywhere, or should I just be super careful with it?

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

TheArbez said:


> Ok, two questions for everyone. Currently in the process of rebuilding my Topaz, and wondering if anyone has thoughts on doing anything custom for a V2 Bronson. I asked DVO when I was on the phone with them but they didn't really have anything for me. So, would love to hear any experiences with that. Second, I scratched my damper shaft when trying to rebuild the shock last weekend, so I'll be putting a new one on this week. Are there instructions for that anywhere, or should I just be super careful with it?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


Do you have any complaints about how the shock performs on the V2 Bronson? If you tell DVO about a specific ride quality you want to change they can probably make a suggestion.

Always be really careful with shock shafts so you don't warp/dent them in a vise or scratch them. Best way to work on it is using the right size shaft clamp in a vise. Otherwise maybe keep a microfiber cloth wrapped around it. Just like everything with suspension rebuilds keep it clean


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

Fajita Dave said:


> Do you have any complaints about how the shock performs on the V2 Bronson? If you tell DVO about a specific ride quality you want to change they can probably make a suggestion.
> 
> Always be really careful with shock shafts so you don't warp/dent them in a vise or scratch them. Best way to work on it is using the right size shaft clamp in a vise. Otherwise maybe keep a microfiber cloth wrapped around it. Just like everything with suspension rebuilds keep it clean


I don't feel like I've ever really found a great balance of pop, plushness - especially with the VPP/square edge harshness, and support at the bottom. I've got three bands in the positive side, but still struggle to not bottom out on stuff that doesn't feel that big. Maybe I just haven't spent enough time tuning, but I remember other folks talking about reshimming the shock for the Bronson - just curious about what others have found.

Got the message on not scratching the shaft - more looking for any info on actually replacing the shaft, which should be arriving today.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

TheArbez said:


> I don't feel like I've ever really found a great balance of pop, plushness - especially with the VPP/square edge harshness, and support at the bottom. I've got three bands in the positive side, but still struggle to not bottom out on stuff that doesn't feel that big. Maybe I just haven't spent enough time tuning, but I remember other folks talking about reshimming the shock for the Bronson - just curious about what others have found.
> 
> Got the message on not scratching the shaft - more looking for any info on actually replacing the shaft, which should be arriving today.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


DVO's instructions did kind of skip over the damper shaft. There were two things that stood out to me. The air piston needs to be installed from the side that threads into the shock. That end is tapered to allow the o-rings in the air piston to slide over. The damper piston side of the shaft doesn't have the taper and you'll never get the air piston over the square edge without tearing an o-ring.

The other thing is getting the rebound needle lined back up is very tricky. Since you're replacing the damper shaft you'll need to get one of those small white washers seated into the far end of the shaft. I have an allen key with a 3.5mm shaft and that was an absolutely perfect fit inside the rebound needle. I put the allen key in the damper piston side to line the rebound needle up with the hole in the shaft. This made seating the washer without nicking an edge easy.

Make sure you keep the shims in order when you take the damper piston off. Also make sure you don't over tighten the bleed screw to the damper body like I did! Next time I rebuild it I'll have to find a way to extract it.

Can't help you with tuning! I haven't messed with any of the shim stacks yet.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

TheArbez said:


> I don't feel like I've ever really found a great balance of pop, plushness - especially with the VPP/square edge harshness, and support at the bottom. I've got three bands in the positive side, but still struggle to not bottom out on stuff that doesn't feel that big.


Have you tried higher can pressures and ditching the positive spacers?


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## TheArbez (Dec 30, 2011)

EatsDirt said:


> Have you tried higher can pressures and ditching the positive spacers?


I have not. Definitely going to experiment with spacers more once I get the shock working again.

Speaking of which... I've rebuilt the damper and air can, but it leaks air almost as fast as I can pump. The leak is coming from the top seam of the sleeve - near the reservoir. Not sure if I used the wrong o rings or something, but replacing that top ring seems like my first thing to address. Anyone know what o ring that is? Hoping to leave on a trip this weekend and have a working shock, so local supply is essential.

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

TheArbez said:


> I have not. Definitely going to experiment with spacers more once I get the shock working again.
> 
> Speaking of which... I've rebuilt the damper and air can, but it leaks air almost as fast as I can pump. The leak is coming from the top seam of the sleeve - near the reservoir. Not sure if I used the wrong o rings or something, but replacing that top ring seems like my first thing to address. Anyone know what o ring that is? Hoping to leave on a trip this weekend and have a working shock, so local supply is essential.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk


The o-ring at that end of the sleeve is slightly larger. It really is a tiny difference but its making up for the beveled edge on that end of the sleeve. Take the air sleeve off and make sure you didn't get the o-rings mixed up. Also make sure you have the sleeve on in the correct direction. One side is beveled to make it easier to push the sleeve on, the side facing the shock shaft isn't beveled.

I have no idea what size those o-rings are. I don't have my old seals to measure either.


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm trying to get my shock set up well for me using a Shockwiz, and would appreciate some thoughts from you guys about what I should change based on these results.

Spent the whole day yesterday riding a wide variety of great trails, some of which were at the extreme end of what I like to ride.
Shock felt really good, but definitely not perfect.

Here's my observations:

O-ring on the shock tells me I used max 90% travel. I would have expected to use close to full travel on some of those trails (maybe 95%+)
Shockwiz tells me my dynamic sag is 38%, which sounds like a lot to me.
Shockwiz is recommending I change some aspects of the shock which there are no obvious adjustments for on the shock:










In terms of the shocks current setup, it's as follows:

Air pressure 220psi
Bladder pressure 195psi
Volume spacers: none


And a bit about me:

Weight: 100kg
Riding style: experienced rider but not particularly aggressive


I'd really appreciate your thoughts on what I can try next to improve the setup further. Thanks!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I never used a shockwiz and I've been pretty sceptical about how useful or accurate it is. With that being said I'd try a lower bladder pressure first. In my experience messing with bladder pressure doesn't feel like a true damping adjustment but lower bladder pressure will definitely soften the shock up letting you use more travel.

I never had any sort of suspension data so can't say much about dynamic sag. I would think the specific bike you're riding would be an important part.


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## johnsogr (May 31, 2009)

Paco Loco said:


> I'm trying to get my shock set up well for me using a Shockwiz, and would appreciate some thoughts from you guys about what I should change based on these results.
> 
> Spent the whole day yesterday riding a wide variety of great trails, some of which were at the extreme end of what I like to ride.
> Shock felt really good, but definitely not perfect.
> ...


I have a ShockWiz and I can't imagine it telling me my air pressure is good with a sag of 38% - did you mean 28? Agreed with decreasing the bladder pressure, but if that doesn't work, you're looking at a custom tune.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

johnsogr said:


> I have a ShockWiz and I can't imagine it telling me my air pressure is good with a sag of 38% - did you mean 28? Agreed with decreasing the bladder pressure, but if that doesn't work, you're looking at a custom tune.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nope I wrote that right - it's telling me 38% "dynamic sag" (whatever that means).
Don't really understand this as the sag I am measuring when stationary on the bike is between 25-30%, definitely no more than that.


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks - I'll experiment with bladder pressure next then.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I would think dynamic sag is going to vary greatly depending on the bike you ride. 38% is probably about right for an enduro bike. Not so great for a bike that has a lot of anti-squat.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dynamic sag is probably the average position. If you are on steep terrain, you'll naturally tend to put more weight on the back. If you are seated, pedaling it will also put more weight on the back.

Just FWIW, every assessment shockwiz makes is based on parameters they feel are right. Its probably worth watching the video of Jeff Kendal Weed on Ibis suspension tuning. Ibis kept telling him to soften it and he hated it. The expert opinion isn't always right for the individual.


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

Paco Loco said:


> Nope I wrote that right - it's telling me 38% "dynamic sag" (whatever that means).
> Don't really understand this as the sag I am measuring when stationary on the bike is between 25-30%, definitely no more than that.


Dynamic sag is the average position while riding, not the same as static sag, which is what you would usually measure for initial setup.
38% sounds normal to me, and I prefer very stiff setups compared to most people.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Paco Loco said:


> I'm trying to get my shock set up well for me using a Shockwiz, and would appreciate some thoughts from you guys about what I should change based on these results.
> 
> Spent the whole day yesterday riding a wide variety of great trails, some of which were at the extreme end of what I like to ride.
> Shock felt really good, but definitely not perfect.
> ...


Shockwiz is a good start but I have my doubts. It depends on what bike you topaz is on, but I'd forget about it for a while and adjust by feel. Are you just puzzling for the sake of puzzling or is there a specific trait your chasing in a specific location?

That being said, with your data it's essentially saying you shock is too stiff/harsh. So I'd do the following:
- Drop bladder pressure 2.5-5 PSI. This will soften the shock slightly. You can't really play with LSC on the topaz and this is gross oversimplification but this is similar to softening the LSC as recommended. 
- If you ran vol spacers, I'd say remove some +ve ones for HSC softening. Since you don't, you could try adding 1 -ve vol. spacer. But I'd work your on lowering the bladder pressure first it might solve all your issues in one adjustment. Bladder pressure stiffens/softens both HSC&LSC circuits for the whole damping curve on the topaz 
- Then if you find lowering bladder pressure makes you blow through your travel try upping your air pressure first before adding volume spacers

I'm 75 kg fully loaded on M trance 29, experienced, fairly agresiva rider and my settings are:
- Air pressure: 235PSI, 2-ve / 2+ve vol. spacers
- Bladder pressure: 190PSI
- Rebound: 4 clicks from fastest

My aim is to only use 90-95% on any given ride. I like to save a bit for the times when I get it wrong.


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks, that's really helpful advice.
Definitely gonna try a little less bladder pressure next.
Depending on how that works out, may then try a negative spacer.


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks, makes sense. 
I now think the dynamic sag reading is probably fine and I'm not going to worry about this one.


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## Paco Loco (Oct 25, 2007)

Appreciate the help - thanks all :thumbsup:


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I don't get how changing bladder pressure would change damping?

Or much of anything really other than initial break away?


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

mike156 said:


> I don't get how changing bladder pressure would change damping?
> 
> Or much of anything really other than initial break away?


Specifically to the topaz, when you adjust bladder pressure you move the damping curve up and down the Y-axis rather than change the shape of the damping curve. More bladder pressure = more compression force but it's an increase across the whole curve or whole travel. So yes more breakaway but also more top end force, then the increased bladder pressure also moves the rebound curve up the Y-axis too, so depending on your preference you may need to add more rebound damping to compensate for increase bladder pressure too.

The T3 lever changes the LSC curve shape or rate of damping. More like a LSC dial would.

But more generally, as I said it's highly oversimplified because it's an overarching adjustment of suspension "softness vs stiffness" and the various adjustments (HSC, LSC, HSR, LSR, Air pressure, etc) are just different mechanisms (depending preference) for achieving the end result. While these mechanisms provide individual characteristics to a shock they are not all readily available for trail side adjustment on the topaz so you have to consider what the over arching goal is. Is the shock too soft? Or is the shock to stiff?

This Vorsprung tech tune is a good explination https://vorsprungsuspension.com/blo...-spring-rate-vs-adjusting-compression-damping


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

mike156 said:


> I don't get how changing bladder pressure would change damping?
> 
> Or much of anything really other than initial break away?


To simplify the above, the main compression shim stack is in that reservoir with the bladder. Less air pressure in the bladder will let the bladder compress allowing oil to flow more freely through the shim stack making the damping softer. More pressure in the bladder means the bladder won't compress as easily and reduce oil flow through the shim stack. This is why it stiffens the entire damping curve and not just high speed or low speed.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The physics seem to disagree, I guess is my point.

Adding pressure to the bladder increases the static pressure in the system... Both sides of the base valve, both sides of the mid valve... The entire hydraulic circuit. This is where the initial breakaway force comes from, and friction.

The shim stack still requires the same differential pressure (force) across it for a given fluid flow rate (velocity). Changing the bladder pressure doesn't change that, provided it's high enough to avoid cavitation.

It seems like bladder pressure would just act as an additional air spring that has a different progression curve and acts on a smaller area then the main spring? This would correspond to it having an impact on how much travel it uses and rebound speeds but doesn't seem like it would actually change damping at all?


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

The bladder pressure only adjusts static pressure on one side of the circuit not both. I would agree with you if it adjusted both sides of the circuit but it doesn’t. 

Yes pressure “differential” is the same for a given flow rate. But the “force” to produce the given flow rate at any point in the travel is varied by the pressure in the bladder. The void pressure in the bladder only resists the oil flow coming through the circuit to compress the bladder void when the shock is compressed. The bladder pressure does not exert any force on the other side of the circuit to help push the oil through the circuit. 

It does act like another air spring on the oil flow rate (same as any IFP would) but that’s a separate discussion about the “rate of change” rather than the static forces.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It works on both sides of the base valve and the entire hydraulic circuit. The basevalve has a check shim for rebound that takes VERY little force to open. For the bladder pressure to operate only on one side of the basevalve, that check shim would have to resist all of that pressure. It doesn't. The shim opens and allows the shock to balance out that pressure through the entire hydraulic circuit.

This is why the shock will still extend even after you've removed the air spring can. That bladder pressure exists inside the the entire hydraulic circuit and is pushing the shock shaft back out.

The only reason it exist at all is to deal with the change in fluid volume displaced by the shock shaft and then the pre-charge the entire hydraulic system to prevent cavitation.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Intuition says the IFP pressure should not have any affect on damping, the IFP pressurizes the whole fluid on both sides of the pistons and only thing it does is to compensate the shaft displacement(while keeping the oil pressurised to avoid cavitation). So this would mean that IFP pressure would only act as an additional air spring in terms of "feel" of the shock, not affecting damping as such. So I'm on same page with this as @mike156, in theory...

In practice however, when adjusting the IFP pressure between 170 to 190psi I do feel a noticeable difference especially in small bump performance, with lower bladder pressure resulting in better small bump performance, which kind of contradicts the theory mentioned above. Adjusting the IFP pressure between 170-190psi does not seem have noticeable effect on static sag, which would further indicate that the effect comes from change in damping, rather than spring rate. (FWIW, I have Topaz on my Jeffsy 29" mk1, which I base my observations on)

The other thing is that even on DVO site they recommend lower bladder pressure for light riders and higher for heavier riders. If there would not be affect on the damping with bladder pressure, why recommend different pressures in the first place?

The term "breakaway force" is a bit poorly describing the IFP pressure effect. Breakaway force technically is the friction from the moving seals(which the bladder isn't), the resistance from IFP/bladder pressure would be something like "initial spring force". 

So technically the IFP/Bladder pressure should not affect the damping characteristics, but real life experiments seem to contradict this. Maybe I'm missing some aspect of how this stuff works..?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Pressure will be the same throughout the entire system when static (Pascal's law). There's no check valve to prevent it from flowing back when you add pressure to the bladder, if there were the shock wouldn't rebound.

The way I imagine it is with lower bladder pressure the bladder will cave in easier allowing more oil to flow and provide less resistance as the shock shaft takes up volume within the damper. I also have no doubt it's acting at least a little bit like a seperate air spring since the pressure in the bladder is constantly exerting a force to extend the shock. So I would think it's a bit of both.

I never got really in-depth with suspension tuning and have always gone strictly by feel. Changing bladder pressure doesn't feel like a simple damping adjustment to me but I can't say exactly why. Maybe it's because it changes the whole spectrum of damping or maybe it's because it seems like it should also be acting a bit as a seperate air spring. It does have a similar feel to adjusting air can pressure.


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

Verttii said:


> Intuition says the IFP pressure should not have any affect on damping, the IFP pressurizes the whole fluid on both sides of the pistons and only thing it does is to compensate the shaft displacement(while keeping the oil pressurised to avoid cavitation). So this would mean that IFP pressure would only act as an additional air spring in terms of "feel" of the shock, not affecting damping as such. So I'm on same page with this as @mike156, in theory...
> 
> In practice however, when adjusting the IFP pressure between 170 to 190psi I do feel a noticeable difference especially in small bump performance, with lower bladder pressure resulting in better small bump performance, which kind of contradicts the theory mentioned above. Adjusting the IFP pressure between 170-190psi does not seem have noticeable effect on static sag, which would further indicate that the effect comes from change in damping, rather than spring rate. (FWIW, I have Topaz on my Jeffsy 29" mk1, which I base my observations on)
> 
> ...


You need to draw a force diagram. Assume the oil is incompressible and consider compression and rebound movement separately from a resting state.

It's a typical air spring relationship. Change in bladder volume determines the damping curve. But since the bladder volume is never changed increase bladder pressure only moves the curve further up the y-axis (just like the air spring on the shock) because the force required to change the bladder volume is greater.

Agree with you on breakaway force.

DVO recomend high bladder pressure for heavier riders to prevent cavitation. It works both ways but just consider rebound for now. 
- For a given bladder pressure and the same bump force a heavier rider will compress the shock further than a lighter rider. 
- assuming an undamped rebound circuit and ignoring -ve spring the shock with rebound at an initial rate equal to the pressure in the +ve chamber. Which will be higher for the heavier rider. 
- therefore the oil is moving back through the rebound circuit (away from the bladder) initially at a higher rate for the heavier rider
- the bladder pressure maintains positive pressure on the oil as it goes though the rebound circuit. 
- if bladder pressure is not high enough a vacuum (cavitation) will be created between the oil moving away from the bladder and the bladder
- hence all things being equal a heavier rider will have a faster initial rebound oil flow and requires more bladder pressure to ensure the bladder maintains positive pressure on the oil and vacuum does not occur initially in the oil moving away from the bladder.

Real life experiments seem to contradict the theory because real world compression feel is "soft vs stiff" of a combined spring curve and damper curve not a consideration of a damper curve from first principles in insolation of the other contributors.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Bluman8 said:


> You need to draw a force diagram. Assume the oil is incompressible and consider compression and rebound movement separately from a resting state.
> 
> It's a typical air spring relationship. Change in bladder volume determines the damping curve. But since the bladder volume is never changed increase bladder pressure only moves the curve further up the y-axis (just like the air spring on the shock) because the force required to change the bladder volume is greater.


The thing I don't understand, is that why/how is the situation different (from damping[which speed dependent] point of view) when you have the spring force coming from compressing the IFP/Bladder, compared to situation where you have the same amount of resistance coming from the normal air/coil spring? Shouldn't it be kind of same situation as you would have pre-load on a coil spring?

Do you refer to "force diagram" as diagram where you have shock travel on one axis and force on the other axis? Or something else(an example would be nice)?



Bluman8 said:


> Agree with you on breakaway force.
> 
> DVO recomend high bladder pressure for heavier riders to prevent cavitation. It works both ways but just consider rebound for now.
> - For a given bladder pressure and the same bump force a heavier rider will compress the shock further than a lighter rider.
> ...


I think I understand the cavitation part, and why heavier rider would need higher (minimum) pressure on the IFP/Bladder to avoid cavitation; The spring force required for heavy rider is higher and the maximum force(hence also shaft speed) on rebound is higher(not certain if necessarily on compression, as the stronger spring counteracts partly), which requires higher pressure to avoid forming vacuum on the back side of the piston. 
What I don't understand is that how, or thru which mechanism, the IFP/Bladder pressure affects the damping. 
If it would go as my intuition(=IFP/Bladder pressure shouldn't affect damping) it should not matter on a smaller rider if the bladder pressure is set too high, just that it is above the minimum limit to avoid cavitation. So a shock could have fixed IFP pressure which is just set high enough for all use cases. Obviously I'm missing still something here...

Or am I just looking the whole picture at an incorrect angle, the IFP pressure does not technically affect damping, but is perceived as such, because of change in the overall spring rate(air/coil+IFP/Bladder)...?


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## B3nnyH (Aug 17, 2016)

Has anybody actually modified the tune on the shock beyond removing one of the high speed rebound shims or changing the weight of the oil?

I like the shock, and it's certainly more comfortable than the dpx2 it replaced on my v1 sentinel, but I like to tinker with stuff. 

It sounds like people were playing with the shim stack spacers on the compression side to allow more lift and to use a different, firmer shim stack. Any updates?


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Regarding heavier riders needing a higher IFP pressure:
Is this only a recommendation, or do you risk actual cavitation?

Reason for asking:
I’m 240lbs, with 250 psi in main chamber to get ~30% sag. 
Running IFP=200psi, but I’d be very interested in trying lower IFP pressure if it can give me better small bump compliance. 

Thoughts?


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## Bluman8 (Oct 27, 2011)

langen said:


> Regarding heavier riders needing a higher IFP pressure:
> Is this only a recommendation, or do you risk actual cavitation?
> 
> Reason for asking:
> ...


I would have throught at 240lbs you are still in the average weight arrange that you can easily run lower bladder pressure.

I would expect 300-350lbs would more the weight range that or more concern to need to run higher bladder pressures.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Bluman8 said:


> I would have throught at 240lbs you are still in the average weight arrange that you can easily run lower bladder pressure.
> 
> I would expect 300-350lbs would more the weight range that or more concern to need to run higher bladder pressures.


I don't consider myself being in the average weight range, but of course YMMV 

I also managed to get in touch with Geoff @ DVO:



[email protected] said:


> Stay above 185 and you'll be ok. If you go down that low, you may need 260psi in main chamber.
> 
> Bladder pressure affects the whole stroke. While it's main purpose is to pressurize the system, lowering pressure makes it a bit easier to move through the whole stroke. While it can improve small bump compliance, lowering pressure will also affect the rest of the stroke. Basically, it does not change the spring curve, but moves the same curve up or down depending on pressure.


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## tezzyrecords (Aug 2, 2020)

Hey,
just to keep this great thread going...
Alex from germany here. Just from reading the whole thread again and again I bought a Topaz for my 2020 Orbea Occam H10 and oh boy, I wasn't ready for what it did to my beloved bike. i just didn't have the money to upgrade my suspension from the beginning, btw a great offering by Orbea that you can book the upgrade in the buying process. In the end I'm quite happy to NOT have picked the DPX2. After reading through, the following happened: 
I went for a Topaz. I like the concept of servicing my stuff at home. Huge selling point! So the new shock arrived and I threw it on, ready to tune the thing to taste because I had all the great info. I set the bladder to 190psi for my 200lbs and 215psi in the main chamber for 30% Sag and off I went. No volume spacers, the bike is fairly progressive, anti-squat is spot on, yeah it bobs a tiny bit, but hey, I muted it going to climb mode.
The middle position is like a do-it-all-thing. Touring, single trail, bike park. It simply works! Going downhill in full open is like a fun-mode or play-with-roots-mode! Endless pop and traction and joy. Wow!
I played with the tuning but no improvement. I write down my settings and make notes. Yes, there is room for improvement but it is tiny. The linkage design of the Occam combined with this shock is an incredibly strong combination. I love it. It transformed a great bike into something stellar. Whenever I pick it up, I can't wait to get it into the woods! Pure fun!
Just for the record, the Topaz replaced a Fox DPS.
I had a vague idea of how bad that shock is. Now I have proof.

Long story short: yes you can upgrade your bike here and there with a new set of grips or flat pedals and such but the rear suspension defines the character and the vibe of your bike. And the Topaz brought something great to the table! I hoped it would be good but it turned out to be sensational! Chapeau DVO.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

My shock was losing pressure every bunch of rides, so I decided to lube the seals to see if I can get a better seal. I didn't get to find out, because a minute later I cut in half one of them. 
As someone mentioned - you can use the sag o-ring as a temporary replacement. :thumbsup:


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

tezzyrecords said:


> Hey,
> just to keep this great thread going...
> Alex from germany here. Just from reading the whole thread again and again I bought a Topaz for my 2020 Orbea Occam H10 and oh boy, I wasn't ready for what it did to my beloved bike. i just didn't have the money to upgrade my suspension from the beginning, btw a great offering by Orbea that you can book the upgrade in the buying process. In the end I'm quite happy to NOT have picked the DPX2. After reading through, the following happened:
> I went for a Topaz. I like the concept of servicing my stuff at home. Huge selling point! So the new shock arrived and I threw it on, ready to tune the thing to taste because I had all the great info. I set the bladder to 190psi for my 200lbs and 215psi in the main chamber for 30% Sag and off I went. No volume spacers, the bike is fairly progressive, anti-squat is spot on, yeah it bobs a tiny bit, but hey, I muted it going to climb mode.
> ...


Awesome! Maybe a DVO fork is next on the list of upgrades?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Zayphod said:


> My shock was losing pressure every bunch of rides, so I decided to lube the seals to see if I can get a better seal. I didn't get to find out, because a minute later I cut in half one of them.
> As someone mentioned - you can use the sag o-ring as a temporary replacement. :thumbsup:


Did your shock suck down into the stroke or just losing pressure?

On mine the air piston seal started leaking a little. Air occasionally leaked into the negative chamber when the shock compressed. I had to pump the shock up past it's max psi and pull the shaft out to get to the equalizing port before I could fix it.


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## Zayphod (Nov 11, 2018)

Fajita Dave said:


> Did your shock suck down into the stroke or just losing pressure?
> 
> On mine the air piston seal started leaking a little. Air occasionally leaked into the negative chamber when the shock compressed. I had to pump the shock up past it's max psi and pull the shaft out to get to the equalizing port before I could fix it.


It was losing pressure until it sets to around 140ish psi.

And it turned out that the sag o-ring doesn't actually hold pressure that well - it was still leaking from the negative chamber because after 130psi it was nearly impossible to cycle the shock. At 50 was as normal, at 100 was noticeably harder and after that it's rock solid. 
I switched positions of the seals and took one from the positive chamber and as expected - soon after the shock suck down. Luckily there wasn't much pressure, so I just carefully took off the air can.

What I found interesting is that the air escapes at a specific part of the stroke and only on it's way back.

I don't like idea of spending 55€ for the seal kit in order to replace just one seal, so i'll try my luck and eyeball one from a local source.


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## TX_CLG (Sep 14, 2010)

When doing the rebuild, when do you inflate the bladder? Do you do the bleed with no pressure in the bladder or with the bladder pressurized?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

TX_CLG said:


> When doing the rebuild, when do you inflate the bladder? Do you do the bleed with no pressure in the bladder or with the bladder pressurized?


The bleed needs to be done with no pressure in the bladder. Work out all of the bubbles you can before threading the shock shaft back on. With the damper assembled remove the bleed screw and put any sort of reservoir in its place. Put some oil in the reservoir and slowly cycle the shock shaft to work out air bubbles. After you put the bleed screw back in you can pressurize the bladder.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

if you lose some oil when opening the bleeding screw (because of trapped air), can you refill some oil via the syringe? Or do you have to open the bladde reservoir and fill into into there?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

aenduro said:


> if you lose some oil when opening the bleeding screw (because of trapped air), can you refill some oil via the syringe? Or do you have to open the bladde reservoir and fill into into there?


If the air was only from taking out the bleed screw you can just top it off and you'll be good. But it sounds like you took out the bleed screw because you thought there might be trapped air in the damper? If there's air in the reservoir you'll need to take the shock apart and refill following DVO's instructions.


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

Fajita Dave said:


> If the air was only from taking out the bleed screw you can just top it off and you'll be good. But it sounds like you took out the bleed screw because you thought there might be trapped air in the damper? If there's air in the reservoir you'll need to take the shock apart and refill following DVO's instructions.


This is not needed from my experience. Just attach the bleed syringe and cycle the shock untill all the bubbles escape.

Of course to cycle the shock you need to remove the air spring.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

Thanks guys, but it's not just about releasing air but also determining the correct amount of oil in the system (if some oil will flow out of the bleeding screw because of too much air in the oil) and refill if necessary. So my question if this can be done via syringe or do I have to open the bladder and fill the oil there?
Tbh I think the bleeding part in the official doc is a bit confusing because it's right in the "middle" of the whole service process and not standalone - I'm not sure which previous steps of the doc are necessary for bleeding and which are not. So I'm looking for a short version of this and wanna know if I can refill missing oil via a syringe or does this create too much pressure/oil in the system?

Edit: wait... while thinking about it... if I push oil via the syringe and remove the syringe, excess oil will come out of the bleeding port anyway as long as the bladder has not collapsed?


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## akantus178 (Mar 20, 2018)

aenduro said:


> Thanks guys, but it's not just about releasing air but also determining the correct amount of oil in the system (if some oil will flow out of the bleeding screw because of too much air in the oil) and refill if necessary. So my question if this can be done via syringe or do I have to open the bladder and fill the oil there?
> Tbh I think the bleeding part in the official doc is a bit confusing because it's right in the "middle" of the whole service process and not standalone - I'm not sure which previous steps of the doc are necessary for bleeding and which are not. So I'm looking for a short version of this and wanna know if I can refill missing oil via a syringe or does this create too much pressure/oil in the system?
> 
> Edit: wait... while thinking about it... if I push oil via the syringe and remove the syringe, excess oil will come out of the bleeding port anyway as long as the bladder has not collapsed?


You are not pushing any oil in, the oil will flow from the syringe in and fill all the available space, which is how you determine correct oil volume -> full.

You have to attach the syringe to the bleed port, fill it with oil and cycle the shock untill all the bubbles get out. Of course this has to be done with no pressure in the bladder.

You can also do it "properly" for example if you want to change the oil completely. For that you remove air canister, then damper body (oil will come out), then you can remove the bladder. From there you can follow the bleeding manual with filling the damper body with oil and reinstalling it and then filling the piggyback with oil and insert bladder. After that you will attach syringe to the bleed port, add oil to it and cycle the shock untill all the bubbles are out. Close the bleed port, inflate bladder, reinstall air can and profit.

Edit: just to be clear, the syringe stays always open, you will not use the pushing part.


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## aenduro (May 29, 2013)

Thanks man!


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

So, do you remove the plunger from the syringe, then?

On the steps where you are supposed to push the compression loader with a 3mm hex, I can never feel any sort of 'click' as described in the service manual. I'm even using the same brand hex as is used in the manual. Is there some sort of trick here? I presume that this is pushing the LSC needle out?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

half_man_half_scab said:


> So, do you remove the plunger from the syringe, then?
> 
> On the steps where you are supposed to push the compression loader with a 3mm hex, I can never feel any sort of 'click' as described in the service manual. I'm even using the same brand hex as is used in the manual. Is there some sort of trick here? I presume that this is pushing the LSC needle out?


Remove the plunger from your syringe. The syringe is just acting as a reservoir so oil can flow in as the air comes out.

Pushing the 3mm hex into the compression loader is just making sure the LSC needle is pushed all the way in. Step 68 has you close the LSC to thread the staunchion on. Step 70 has you open the LSC so you need to make sure the needle is pushed in for the bleed.

I'm still not understanding why people are bleeding the shock without doing a rebuild? If your damper got air in it I'd say it's time for a service. If there's air in the reservoir from a bladder leak I can't see how you'd get the air out through the staunchion bleed port? Only serviced my shock once so maybe I'm missing something here.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

In my case I'm pulling off the shock body and removing the bladder, and replacing all fluids as a preventative measure. I inspected the bladder, but did not find any tears.


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## slimat99 (May 21, 2008)

Sorry is this has been asked and answered already: will a shimano brake bleed funnel work for the topaz?


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

My Shimano fittings did not appear to work. I ended up using the older threaded sram fitting for pre-bleeding edge guides.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I found a silicon tube that fit snug in the the bleed hole. Doesn't need to be anything fancy.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Syringe from Reverb bleed kit worked nicely for Topaz, so something like this:








If you've fscked bleed procedure at some point and/or you have air trapped in the oil side for whatever reason, you can remove the bladder with the shock assembled too: 
- Just have the syringe(with plunger and about half full of oil) connected to the bleed port 
- when you push the bladder/valve in on the reservoir, the fluid will go to the syringe and you can remove the retaining ring 
- Now you can pull the bladder/valve assembly out, which you might need to help a bit by pushing the syringe plunger a bit, but be careful. 
- When the bladder assembly comes out, the syringe plunger will prevent all oil from draining out from the reservoir.
- While you have the bladder removed, you can cycle the shock, and or the syringe to remove air bubbles possibly trapped somewhere in the damping circuit
- When happy, just insert the bladder assembly back with oil level on piggyback reservoir about half from full
- When pushing the bladder in, excessive oil will first drain over the reservoir sides, but when the bladder seals the reservoir, it starts pushing the oil to the syringe or compresses the bladder

This procedure requires some dexterity and patience, but isn't dramatically difficult. Main point being that you don't need to dismantle the whole shock in case if you happen to have some air trapped in the oil side...


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Great info! Thanks!


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

So, no plunger on the syringe. Then, pulling a vacuum while compressing is not advised. Pushing fluid while extending I could see overfilling with the syringe attached, but wouldn't excess fluid just puke out when you take the syringe off? Or is the bladder deformed by the excess fluid and can't return to its normal resting shape?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

half_man_half_scab said:


> So, no plunger on the syringe. Then, pulling a vacuum while compressing is not advised. Pushing fluid while extending I could see overfilling with the syringe attached, but wouldn't excess fluid just puke out when you take the syringe off? Or is the bladder deformed by the excess fluid and can't return to its normal resting shape?


There shouldn't be any pressure or vacuum while bleeding at all. You only need to have it 100% full and the goal is no air in it what so ever.


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## MountainBored (Aug 4, 2016)

JUST an oil change on my old Topaz - good idea or do full rebuild w new seals/o-rings?

I bought my Topaz in 2017. It was serviced by DVO under warranty at 2 years (i yanked out the air fill core, they agreed to replace it under warranty, SWEET!). It's now been 1.5 years. It works great. No leaks. Good tune. I just bought WPL oils for my Topaz and Beryl service. I intent to just do an oil change on the lowers for the Beryl and want to keep it simple on the Topaz. Plus, I haven't bought the rebuilt seal kit (yet). 

Anyone with experience JUST doing a Topaz oil change? Too hard not to damage seals in the process? Let me know....I like to plan a lot before taking things apart!


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## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

*Shaft Clamp 4 rebuild. Is it Needed????*

Do I need a 10mm shaft clamp to replace the suspension oil in my DVO Topaz rear shock or is there another way around it?


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## Junersun (Jun 10, 2014)

homeslice said:


> Do I need a 10mm shaft clamp to replace the suspension oil in my DVO Topaz rear shock or is there another way around it?


One time purchase will last you a lifetime of any round surface clamps

Park Tool AV-5 Axle & Spindle Vise Inserts https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009F96A7E/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_2ZKzFbSXHK8A2

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## homeslice (Jun 3, 2008)

*10mm shaft Clamp Needed?*

Do I need a 10mm shaft clamp to replace the suspension oil in my DVO Topaz rear shock or is there another way around it? If needed, where can I get one?


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

Not for just an oil change.

If you wanted to replace every single o-ring in the shock then you would to get the top assembly off the shaft.

I don't think you would need to take the top assembly off just to change the o-ring in it but it would probably be easier to get to.

Park AV-5 has a 10mm slot (and looks just like https://www.mcmaster.com/6325A43/ as I'm not sure Park makes all (most?) of their tools, you can use a piece of old inner tube or a latex glove between the clamp and the shaft to give it a little protection.

I have used the AV-5 on shocks and it works well.

I'm not sure how tight the Topaz top assembly is on the shaft. Soft jaws in a vise might work but it depends on how tight the top is.

Push has one for less than the AV-5...https://www.pushindustries.com/products/10mm-soft-jaw-set


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

silentG said:


> I'm not sure how tight the Topaz top assembly is on the shaft. Soft jaws in a vise might work but it depends on how tight the top is.


Mine had blue thread lock and it was pretty tight. I'd worry about damaging the shaft without using a shaft clamp. I think it's also pretty pointless to mess with a 100% full rebuild unless maybe it's been a few years. At 100 hours I did my full service and as expected all o-rings and the plastic spacers on the rebound needle were like new.

The only o-ring that I can see needing replacement with the shaft removed is the damper shaft seal inside the air piston and I don't think it's going to be bad within a few hundred hours. Unless a little dirt makes it's way in there. Step 31 on the Topaz full service instructions.


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## slimat99 (May 21, 2008)

MountainBored said:


> JUST an oil change on my old Topaz - good idea or do full rebuild w new seals/o-rings?
> 
> I bought my Topaz in 2017. It was serviced by DVO under warranty at 2 years (i yanked out the air fill core, they agreed to replace it under warranty, SWEET!). It's now been 1.5 years. It works great. No leaks. Good tune. I just bought WPL oils for my Topaz and Beryl service. I intent to just do an oil change on the lowers for the Beryl and want to keep it simple on the Topaz. Plus, I haven't bought the rebuilt seal kit (yet).
> 
> Anyone with experience JUST doing a Topaz oil change? Too hard not to damage seals in the process? Let me know....I like to plan a lot before taking things apart!


I just did an oil change without replacing any seals or o rings. Everything was working and looked good so I'm leaving well enough alone. It's about as easy as a shock can be to service. I wish all shock companies would design their shocks with DIY in mind. THe only issue I had was the bleed. I assumed I had something in the garage that would thread or just cram into the bleed port tight enough to get a good seal. I ended up getting a piece of tube like faita dave uses to work but it would have been nice to have a thread in adapter.


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## jro46 (Oct 8, 2020)

Just purchased a Ibis Rimpo AF. It came with a DVO Topaz T3 on it. I have a couple rides on it so far. I was super impressed with it when climbing and there was minimal give while pedaling. I noticed that it was a little harsh when it came to high speed bumps. I could really feel the high speed chatter. I am currently at 30% sag. I weigh about 185lbs full gear. The rebound is about 3 clicks from all the way open. I don't have any spacers in it currently. I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions or if they have experienced something similar.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

The ripmos are super picky about sag, and you want it at 25%, else they dive into the progressive part of the stroke to easily. 

If switching to 25% sag doesn't do it for you, then add a negative volume spacer. This will allow you to achieve target sag with less pressure.


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## jro46 (Oct 8, 2020)

I'll adjust that and see if it works. Would the bladder pressure have anything to do with it too?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Lower bladder pressure will soften the entire damping curve. You aren't to heavy so try 180psi. If the bladder pressure is to low the oil will start cavitating causing you to lose a bunch of damping.

Start with setting the sag correctly like half_man mentioned. I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure the initial travel is progressive for a firm pedal platform before going regressive (softer) as you get past sag. If the sag is to low you could end up riding deep in the shock's stroke where you don't have much travel left to use and it's where the spring pressure ramps up making it feel harsh.


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

I have a Ripmo AF - it allows a pretty broad range of setup depending on what you want for a feel in the rear suspension. I would never run 25% as for me I would consider it too firm and leave a lot of travel behind - but my buddy prefers less sag and closer to 25%. Ibis recommend starting at 27.5% w the Topaz, and easily go to 30% sag. DVO have guided a sweet spot closer to 32% for the Topaz and fast rebound based on the tune.

I will say this. 30% for me is a real sweet spot w the Topaz. But rider weight, spacers (comes stock w 2 pos, 1 neg), and bladder pressure all effect the result.

Seeing you are 185 - and no spacers in the shock - I think that's a problem. The shock tune was likely developed closer to your riding weight than mine so there is a reason for those spacers.

For lighter riders - we've learned that the Topaz really works well w 1 pos spacer. (so remove 1 from stock setup). When I say lighter rider - ~ under 155-160lbs. Im 145 and the bike got so much better w 1 pos, and 1 neg spacer. Lately a few of us are riding without the neg spacer and whoa Nelly - magic carpet ride ! At this setup 28-29% sag seems the early test/tune sweet spot.

At my weight I am running the bladder pressure right at 170 and have run as high as 175. I could tell a small difference - a little more "firm"... all other elements being equal.

feel free to navigate to the Ripmo AF thread in the ibis forum - LOTS of good info in there about setup Topaz, Diamond and Jade


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## jro46 (Oct 8, 2020)

Thank you for the super helpful information. I think I was mistaken with thinking the factory default came with no spacers. I should have done a little more research. My bike shop didn't mention that when I was asking about the spacers. So I guess I do have spacers if the default comes with 2 pos and 1 neg.


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## jro46 (Oct 8, 2020)

I ended up taking one spacer out of the negative and it seemed to be a lot smoother. Kept two in the positive and set my sag right at 30%. Rebound was set at four clicks from open. The first stroke felt really smooth for me. Now I just need to work on my onyx fork. Appreciate the suggestions.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

jro46 said:


> I ended up taking one spacer out of the negative and it seemed to be a lot smoother. Kept two in the positive and set my sag right at 30%. Rebound was set at four clicks from open. The first stroke felt really smooth for me. Now I just need to work on my onyx fork. Appreciate the suggestions.


There's a mountain of information on the diamond in another thread if you wanna sift through it. https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/dvo-diamond-936949.html

The Diamond has a ton of adjustability which is great but can make it difficult to find a setup you like. I think for Ibis they left one ring shim out of the compression stack to make it a bit softer but the Diamond is meant to be ridden hard so it comes with a pretty firm tune.

In my opinion suspension setup is extremely personal. Not just for your terrain and tire preference but how you ride along with how you want it to feel. I think the best thing you can do is find a downhill section of trail that you love where you really want the fork to perform the most and take laps down it with different settings. Make one adjustment in a fairly extreme direction like add 10 clicks of HSC for example and give it a try. At the very least now you'll know what it feels like when the HSC is to firm or you might like it and decide to try more. From there adjust it in the direction you feel it needs to go and keep making runs until you feel happy with it. Then move to adjusting LSC, rebound and finally pressure. Just keep in mind adjusting air pressure will change all of the other settings a little so you may need to tweak things again.

One thing with the Diamond is when adjusting the OTT you need to do it with zero air pressure. Adjusting it with pressure can damage the OTT mechanism.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Oh my! This is a great shock! It spent a week on my Ibis HD3 and it is a marriage made in heaven. It pedals great, incredible slow speed bump compliance (waaaaay better than the DPX2 it replaces), and very composed at speed.

I spent the week tuning it to my riding style and still experimenting but it worked great just with the suggested tuning. At 72 Kg (160 pounds) these are my settings. All comments are for the lever in the downhill position

(_sorry for the editing but I made a typo mistake on the bladder pressures and it is now corrected_)


190 main 170 bladder: smoooth! but wobbles quit a lot when pedaling.
195 main 180 bladder: works great but bit stiff at slow/medium speed
195 and 175. Just about right, but can feel the difference the mid lever position makes when climbing
195 and 175 with one ring in the negative chamber. A big difference in support, but a touch harder overall
195 and 171 with one ring in negative chamber. Holy grail? We'll see this afternoon.

The purpose of the exercise is to be able to use the "downhill" position all the time. The HD3 with its DW-link suspension helps a lot with that, all the settings above work well with the exception of the first. (The 190/170 is kind of outside of the recommended range and it makes the bike "sink" too much uphill if it hits a sizable step or hole, and it looses momentum.)

A side comment on the compression adjust: the mid position (what DVO calls the "traversing" position) actually works well uphill. For comparison, the mid position of the DPX2 was useless because it erased compliance in anything but the smoothest uphill. The DVO medium setting instead seem to work well on anything smaller than, say, around 10cm: perfect for uphill with roots or rocks.

Overall I love this shock! and the range of adjustment it allows is fantastic.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Davide said:


> 190 main 70 bladder: smoooth! but wobbles quit a lot when pedaling.
> 195 main 80 bladder: works great but bit stiff at slow/medium speed
> 195 and 75. Just about right, but can feel the difference the mid lever position makes when climbing
> 195 and 75 with one ring in the negative chamber. A big difference in support, but a touch harder overall
> 195 and 71 with one ring in negative chamber. Holy grail? We'll see this afternoon.


A question with your pressure readings on the bladder, are those values really between 70-80 psi? Or is it a typo and should be 170-180 psi?

I ask because the recommended bladder pressure is between 170-200psi, so those readings you have would be well below the recommended minimum...


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## tezzyrecords (Aug 2, 2020)

I hope you mean *1*70psi when you say 70 for the bladder...
Everything else sounds pretty familiar and is up to your style of riding.
As for the compression switch: in the beginning I wanted to ride it open all the time just because it's so much fun!
But when you hit a jumpline or smooth trail riding, I actually prefer a little compression damping.
I also find the bladder to be the perfect tuning tool for counteracting pedal bob...


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Verttii said:


> A question with your pressure readings on the bladder, are those values really between 70-80 psi? Or is it a typo and should be 170-180 psi?
> 
> I ask because the recommended bladder pressure is between 170-200psi, so those readings you have would be well below the recommended minimum...


Ops, yes, I forgot the 1 in front of all the bladder pressures :eekster: I edited retroactively, sorry.

Tezzyrecords: there is no pedal bob, this is Ibis HD3: they do not bob! I am just optimizing and fine tuning but the bikes pedals pretty great in all the settings above. I'll report after today's ride.


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## tezzyrecords (Aug 2, 2020)

*190 main 70 bladder: smoooth! but wobbles quit a lot when pedaling.*
195 main 80 bladder: works great but bit stiff at slow/medium speed
195 and 75. Just about right, but can feel the difference the mid lever position makes when climbing
195 and 75 with one ring in the negative chamber. A big difference in support, but a touch harder overall
195 and 71 with one ring in negative chamber. Holy grail? We'll see this afternoon.

My bad. I guess I misinterpreted your wobbling as pedal bob.
I've never ridden an Ibis bike but I'm sure it pedals great.

My point was not to give any advice on how to fine tune a Topaz.
My point is - and I didn't say that in the first place - this shock is awesome. My progression in terms of adjustments is looking pretty similar. And none of the settings were ever bad...
And in comparison, after tuning the hell out of my former shock, I never came to a point as good as the starting point of my Topaz.
Fine tuning a Topaz is great fun! If you have a decent platform to begin with, it will transform your bike into something great!
At least it did that for me. Enjoy!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

How much air are you guys sucking in with such low bladder pressures?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

tezzyrecords said:


> My bad. I guess I misinterpreted your wobbling as pedal bob.
> I've never ridden an Ibis bike but I'm sure it pedals great.
> 
> My point was not to give any advice on how to fine tune a Topaz.
> ...


Sorry if I came out a bit too strongly lauding the Ibis HD3 pedaling prowess. It has always been good but this is another level! And, yes, I completely agree: the shock is awesome, none of the settings in bad, and it is fun to tune!

Just to correct my typo and update after today's ride here are my settings . 72 Kg (160 pounds), Ibis Mojo Hd3, 160 Pike/ACS3 Charger 2.1, Nobby Nic 2.3 23 psi front and 26 psi rear.


190 main 170 bladder: smoooth! but wobbles quit a lot when pedaling. Not severe enough to compromise climbing but a bit too soft if running against a step on the uphill.
195 main 180 bladder: works great but a bit stiff at slow/medium speed
195 and 175. Just about right, but can feel the difference the mid lever position makes when climbing
195 and 175 with one ring in the negative chamber. A big difference in support, but a touch harder overall
195 and 171 with one ring in negative chamber. As expected more compliant but the pedaling does not seem to be effected. 

Psychologically I have a bit of a hard time with the one ring in the negative chamber (it does, by itself, reduce small bump compliance). But it seems to work great once I adjusted the bladder pressure ... so there, it might be where it ends up to be. Forget the lever, one setting, added platform combined with better shock absorption? I take it!  :thumbsup:


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

"195 and 175. Just about right, but can feel the difference the mid lever position makes when climbing"
cannot?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

slomtbr said:


> "195 and 175. Just about right, but can feel the difference the mid lever position makes when climbing"
> cannot?


I can. The fact that I could feel the (small) advantage given by the traverse setting when climbing in 195/175 is what motivated me to add one ring in the negative chamber. The idea was to increase the support in the initial part of the travel. The mod is as suggested by DVO (see image below).

My goal was to make the traverse setting unnecessary (I don't like fidgeting with levers) and the change was surprisingly effective with just one ring. The obvious next move was to decrease the pressure in the bladder (from 175 to 171) to make the shock as responsive as possible throughout the range. It seemed to have worked a charm. Very pleased. 







Can't believe that I am finally off the band-wagon of fixing not performing Fox or Rockshox forks and shock ... this started back in the 90s!!!!!! If I had not just heavily modded my Pike, and I would need a new boost wheel, I would rush to get a DVO Diamond!


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

I'm on a 2020 Giant 29 with the Topaz 3
I'm 240lb on the bike, running 230psi, 190psi in the bladder, and 1 spacer each in the positive and negative chambers.
I never touch the compression lever.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

glad you fixed the pressure typos...for a bit there was unable to comprehend such low bladder pressures doing anything but making it ride like butt


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

slomtbr said:


> I'm on a 2020 Giant 29 with the Topaz 3
> I'm 240lb on the bike, running 230psi, 190psi in the bladder, and 1 spacer each in the positive and negative chambers.
> I never touch the compression lever.


It is a lovely shock! I might try, just for fun, to decrease a bit from 195 psi in the main chamber and add one ring. Although as it is now it ramps up nicely and leaves a nice little extra margin of travel. :thumbsup:


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Anyone running the Topaz that came from a DPX2?

I have a First gen Switchblade with DPS rear shock and was going to upgrade to DPX2 but starting to lean more towards a Topaz. Love to hear thoughts on this.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

jay_paradox said:


> Anyone running the Topaz that came from a DPX2?
> 
> I have a First gen Switchblade with DPS rear shock and was going to upgrade to DPX2 but starting to lean more towards a Topaz. Love to hear thoughts on this.


On my HD3 I did exactly that: DPS -> DPX2 -> Topaz. My suggestion is to waste no money on the DPX2 and go straight for the Topaz. It works much better on small/mid size hits, is at least as composed at speed, climbs better, has a traverse lever position that actually works on the uphill, and you can tune it to your desire in a blink (see https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=15102313#poststop for example). Not to mention that if the time comes you can rebuild it completely on your own instead of having to ship to Fox ...

If you are set on Fox, I would consider the X2 instead of the DPX2. I never used the X2 but it has a much larger ranger of adjustments and that, lack of adjustments, was one of the main problems with the DPX2. Not sure how it would climb though ...


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Davide said:


> On my HD3 I did exactly that: DPS -> DPX2 -> Topaz. My suggestion is to waste no money on the DPX2 and go straight for the Topaz. It works much better on small/mid size hits, is at least as composed at speed, climbs better, has a traverse lever position that actually works on the uphill, and you can tune it to your desire in a blink (see https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=15102313#poststop for example). Not to mention that if the time comes you can rebuild it completely on your own instead of having to ship to Fox ...
> 
> If you are set on Fox, I would consider the X2 instead of the DPX2. I never used the X2 but it has a much larger ranger of adjustments and that, lack of adjustments, was one of the main problems with the DPX2. Not sure how it would climb though ...


Perfect! This is exactly what I wanted to hear.


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## slimat99 (May 21, 2008)

So I just serviced the damper for the second time. First time went great, no issues. This time when I pump up the bladder it won't hold past 100psi. Air leaks between the bladder cap and the shock chassis. I pulled the bladder, put some more grease between the bladder and cap, and shock chassis and bladder. It's still leaking. The retaining clip is seated securely. Any ideas?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

slimat99 said:


> So I just serviced the damper for the second time. First time went great, no issues. This time when I pump up the bladder it won't hold past 100psi. Air leaks between the bladder cap and the shock chassis. I pulled the bladder, put some more grease between the bladder and cap, and shock chassis and bladder. It's still leaking. The retaining clip is seated securely. Any ideas?


No, but when I called with a question I was able to get a tech on the phone. I'd reach out to DVO.


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## slimat99 (May 21, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> No, but when I called with a question I was able to get a tech on the phone. I'd reach out to DVO.


I called and was told I need to replace the bladder with every damper service. This was news to me. I told him I changed the oil once before reusing the balder no issues. He said I got lucky. I had a jade before the topaz and reused the balder no issues but only once.


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## Arseni (Jun 28, 2010)

Just noticed a click My Topaz T3 Air makes on it's extension. Right after the piston passes the "pressure equalization point" but before is fully extends. It's really not that loud, but I don't think it was there before. I'm pretty sure it comes from the shock - I tried a different shock on this frame and it's silent.

I did the air chamber "half service" ( cleaned and regreased seals and bushings, but did not replace any parts ). Did not make any difference. Should worry? Time for full rebuild?

Here is the viedeo. I increased audio level 400%, but it is still quiet, so increase your volume:


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Are you sure you didn't shove a seal out of the groove around the shaft? Haven't seen it happen to a topaz but a lot of fox shocks will do it when the air can is shoved back on the air shaft.


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## Arseni (Jun 28, 2010)

terrible said:


> Are you sure you didn't shove a seal out of the groove around the shaft? Haven't seen it happen to a topaz but a lot of fox shocks will do it when the air can is shoved back on the air shaft.


Do you mean the seal, that sits around the air piston? I'm pretty sure it's in place. Also - I'm not loosing any noticeable air pressure. which would probably happen if it was displaced.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Arseni said:


> Do you mean the seal, that sits around the air piston? I'm pretty sure it's in place. Also - I'm not loosing any noticeable air pressure. which would probably happen if it was displaced.


No, the seals that slide on the outermost air shaft. I've seen them get displaced when the can has been shoved back on. I had a niner jet9 that came that way from the factory.


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## Arseni (Jun 28, 2010)

terrible said:


> No, the seals that slide on the outermost air shaft. I've seen them get displaced when the can has been shoved back on. I had a niner jet9 that came that way from the factory.


Thank you for the input! That one is in place too. Just double checked. Also - interestingly - if I only compress the shock till the pressure equalization position and release it - there no click at all. It only happens if the shock is compressed past that point. Compressing even slightly past that "hiss" equalization sound causes click on rebound.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Could just be the springs and valving in the shock. Some are louder than others. I would just ride it and see if you notice it on the trails.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Arseni said:


> Thank you for the input! That one is in place too. Just double checked. Also - interestingly - if I only compress the shock till the pressure equalization position and release it - there no click at all. It only happens if the shock is compressed past that point. Compressing even slightly past that "hiss" equalization sound causes click on rebound.


Could it be that there is ever so slightly too little oil in the damper?
When shock is fully extended, there is small vacuum in the oil and it pulls the bladder assembly slightly inwards in the piggyback reservoir. When you compress the shock, the piston shaft displaces oil which is pushed to the piggyback, which again pushes the bladder valve against the retaining ring. This would create some kind of click sound when compressing the shock, but not when extending. Not sure if this is likely in your case, but at least easy to check, just feel by finger the bladder valve assembly against the piggyback and if it moves. It should not move at all...

Edit: hmm, just watched the video again with better sound, what I described above likely isn't the case... Did you try cycling the shock not connected to the frame if it makes the same sound?


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## Arseni (Jun 28, 2010)

Yea - I double checked - the bladder valve assembly does not move.
I did not cycle the shock w/o the bike, but I'll try that. Will also try with air can removed to see if it's air spring or damper making the click.

UPDATE:
1. When cycling the shock on the bike and gradually reducing air pressure - the click got quieter after about 100psi and disappeared after about 60. So it was virtually impossible to test the click w/o a bike ( Can't compress it at all with bare hands unless I lower that pressure down to 30 psi or lower )
2. With air can removed, the damper seems to be pretty smooth. No harsh resistance, no clicks, perfectly quiet.
3. After doing proper 50hour service ( not just cleaning, but replacing the seals and bushings ), it looks like the click went away. Or at least got so much quieter, that I can't hear it any more.

So I keep my fingers crossed, can't really explain what causes the click, but hope that it was because I rode it over a year without doing Air Can service...


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I've been riding on low bladder pressures for some unknown amount of time. I thought it was just time for a service, as it's been a slow (but noticable) degrade in performance over the last two months.

It didn't have the feeling of low compression though. It actually was feeling rather harsh, like too much compression... And the back of the bike was getting bucky. Why is this how it presented it's self in feeling?

Anyway, put it back up to 190psi and everything was feeling good again.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

mike156 said:


> I've been riding on low bladder pressures for some unknown amount of time. I thought it was just time for a service, as it's been a slow (but noticable) degrade in performance over the last two months.
> 
> It didn't have the feeling of low compression though. It actually was feeling rather harsh, like too much compression... And the back of the bike was getting bucky. Why is this how it presented it's self in feeling?
> 
> Anyway, put it back up to 190psi and everything was feeling good again.


You were probably riding deeper in the travel causing it to feel harsh. Especially with an air shock spring pressure ramps up toward the end of the stroke making it harsh. You also have much less usable damping. Instead of having effective damping at the beginning of the stroke all the way to full bottom out your shock will blow through the first half without much damping. So you're only using the last half of the shock's stroke rather than all of it.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

The lack of damping letting it run deeper into the travel and into the progressive part of the curve seems to make sense. Matches up with damping being low overall as the rebound damping wasn't keeping the back in control either.

FWIW, that was at 140psi. Never made any noise that was noticable while riding.


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## andynunn (Apr 23, 2007)

mike156 said:


> The lack of damping letting it run deeper into the travel and into the progressive part of the curve seems to make sense. Matches up with damping being low overall as the rebound damping wasn't keeping the back in control either.
> 
> FWIW, that was at 140psi. Never made any noise that was noticable while riding.


You probably lost that 50 psi when you put the shock pump on the bladder. The air volume in there is tiny. The bladder is only about as big as a thimble.
Not saying your observation is incorrect that the pressure had dropped but it's unlikely it dropped much if it registered 140 psi when you put the pump on. Easy test is to put the pump on again and see what it reads.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It is a possibility in general, but I have a no loss valve on my pump and pre-fill the hose before opening the valve. It was low on air, of this I have no doubt.

Not to mention it was painfully obvious how off the bike was feeling before and then after fixing the pressure.

The only reason I brought it up though was people saying lowering the bladder pressure made their bike feel softer. I experienced the opposite; it was buzzing my feet from harshness.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Even with a no loss valve the air that was in the bladder is now also in the tube of your pump effectively making the volume of the space larger. Pressure drops as a result.

With my pump if I'm at 170psi in the bladder pressure will drop to 140psi when I put the pump on it. It's good to know how much pressure drop there is from putting your pump on. Set the bladder pressure, remove pump and thread the pump back on to see how much it drops. In my case that's 30psi. So running 170psi I know if my pump reads 130psi when I thread it on my bladder was down to 160psi.

Even at 170psi you can get some cavitation issues depending on how much you weigh and how you ride. Seems like you found a pressure that works for you!


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Yeah, I know how it works. Like I said, I pre-filled the hose before opening the no loss valve. I pre-filled to 190psi, what I expected the pressure to be.

If anything, pressure was lower than 140psi.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Sorry, didn't know anyone made a pump you can pre pressurized. Assumed it was just one you can lift the pin to close the shrader before unscrewing.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

You can pre-pressurize pretty much any shock pump, just requires some extra attention. Screw in the pump until you start to get some resistance, usually the O-ring on the pump connector will make the first contact before the valve pin moves, at this point you can pre-pressurize the hose so that you don't lose pressure on the shock/piggyback/whatever. Finding the spot where the O-ring seals, but valve pin is not yet depressed varies pump to pump and requires some testing to find the right spot/tightness, but fairly easy to test... 

This trick however only works as long as the pressure on the hose stays lower than on the piggyback/shock/etc., and as the pressure on hose increases higher than on the other side of the valve, it tends to open the valve although the connector doesn't yet (fully) depress the valve pin...

I have 175psi on the bladder on my Topaz, so when connecting my pump, I usually pre-pressurize the hose to 150psi before fully connecting. This causes the pressure to equalise slightly below 170psi when fully connected if the bladder pressure hasn't leaked. Anyway, technically it does not matter whether you pre-pressurize the hose or not, as long as you do the pressure check always the same way so that you can compare the "result" what you have as pressure reading after you've connected your pump...


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Just curious, has anyone try using the HV aircan from the T2 on the Topaz T3?


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Earlier in this thread and in the DVO Topaz tech docs it states not use Maxima/Rockshox 2.5wt because of risky additives. I'm wondering, does anyone know if this warnings extends to the Maxima Plush 3wt now used in the charger dampers?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Earlier in this thread and in the DVO Topaz tech docs it states not use Maxima/Rockshox 2.5wt because of risky additives. I'm wondering, does anyone know if this warnings extends to the Maxima Plush 3wt now used in the charger dampers?


Probably best to call DVO.

I'm pretty sure the Maxima oil was causing seals to swell. Worst case scenario is your shock gets very sticky and you'll need to replace all of the seals along with fresh oil.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

I have been running the Topaz on my Orbea Occam and it feels great overall.
I weigh 195lbs with gear. 230psi main, 190psi bladder, 4 positive spacers, 0 negative, 3 clicks of rebound from closed. Sag just under 30%.

I'm not sure how to get the shock to feel more responsive. I find it hard to feel a big difference between rebound clicks and bladder pressures (I heard lower means more supple). 
The rebound range seems to be smaller than on my last Fox performance shock. Tried using the 'one-rebound' method by riding off a curb. But it rebounds more than once on all 0-9 clicks. 

If I add a negative spacer, that would give more support. Will it also reduce sensitivity/ small bump compliance?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

olivierhacking said:


> I have been running the Topaz on my Orbea Occam and it feels great overall.
> I weigh 195lbs with gear. 230psi main, 190psi bladder, 4 positive spacers, 0 negative, 3 clicks of rebound from closed. Sag just under 30%.
> 
> I'm not sure how to get the shock to feel more responsive. I find it hard to feel a big difference between rebound clicks and bladder pressures (I heard lower means more supple).
> ...


I never followed the "one-rebound" method. It might be a good starting point but beyond that it's useless for actual trail riding. Exactly how much bounce are you getting with the rebound damping closed? There will always be at least a small amount of bounce. It's never going to rebound straight back to sag height and stay there. There should still be a very wide range of rebound damping between full open and full closed.

For the bladder the shock gets much stiffer at 200psi compared to 170psi. It should be an obvious difference.

More negative spacers and less positive might help make the shock be more responsive on small bump. First check what Orbea recommends fo sag height. 30% might be to low depending on how the suspension is designed. As your shock sags deeper into the travel the spring rate ramps up making it firmer. Negative spacers can help reduce sag height but won't have as much effect on the spring rate.

In my Topaz I messed around a bunch with the volume spacers. Eventually settled on the shock performing best with no spacers and a little more pressure. Depends on your bike though.


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Fajita Dave said:


> I never followed the "one-rebound" method. It might be a good starting point but beyond that it's useless for actual trail riding. Exactly how much bounce are you getting with the rebound damping closed? There will always be at least a small amount of bounce. It's never going to rebound straight back to sag height and stay there. There should still be a very wide range of rebound damping between full open and full closed.
> 
> For the bladder the shock gets much stiffer at 200psi compared to 170psi. It should be an obvious difference.
> 
> ...


It's hard to say exactly how many bounces, but definitely several smaller oscillations. I will play with this a bit.

And as far as the bladder is concerned: isn't the supple behavior one of the Topaz's selling points? Then why go higher in bladder pressure? I will try 180psi.

Orbea recommends 25-30% sag, and using 3-4 volume spacers is apparently common for Spesh and Orbea riders according to Geoff from DVO! Very linear suspension design. I also need the 140mm rear to keep up with a 160 Diamond up front


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

olivierhacking said:


> It's hard to say exactly how many bounces, but definitely several smaller oscillations. I will play with this a bit.
> 
> And as far as the bladder is concerned: isn't the supple behavior one of the Topaz's selling points? Then why go higher in bladder pressure? I will try 180psi.
> 
> Orbea recommends 25-30% sag, and using 3-4 volume spacers is apparently common for Spesh and Orbea riders according to Geoff from DVO! Very linear suspension design. I also need the 140mm rear to keep up with a 160 Diamond up front


If you bottom out you can use more bladder pressure to firm up the damping without compromising your spring rate. If you're heavier running a low bladder pressure could cause cavitation even at 170psi. I think you'd be good with 180psi at 195lbs.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Adding volume spacers to the negative chamber increases midstroke support. The smaller volume causes the negative chamber pressure to fall off sooner.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Bladder pressure should be high enough to avoid cavitation.

As rider weight goes up, damping force needs to go up as well. Compression damping isn't really adjusted though on the Topaz other than the three piston switch so it's kind of irrelevant here. Rebound damping however has to go up because you raise the spring rate (air pressure) to deal with heavier riders.

If the bladder pressure is bordering cavitation at 170psi when air pressure is 200psi, then you would need to raise bladder pressure if you raised air pressure to 250psi. You might also need to raise bladder pressure if you slowed rebound damping.

I'm beginning to wonder if some of the added "suppleness" being reported is possibly cavitation taking place at high shaft speeds? If I'm not mistaken, cavitation at high speeds only very well might make everything less harsh. Of course, the issue is the shock balcony isn't actually in control at that point.

Otherwise, the only noticable impact bladder pressure should ever have is the force to compress the damper, but this operates on the damper shaft. That difference is minimal.
170psi - ~21lbf
200psi - ~25lbf


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

If running Red Line LikeWater oil then try setting heavy rebound for max control.
190psi(oem pump)
6 clicks rebound

P.S. the bladder pressure isn't for tuning, set it for your weight.


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## Jrose152 (Jan 24, 2021)

Suggestions for 150lbs riding weight on my ripmo AF? Curious as to how much psi and pos/negative spacers. Bike came 3pos 1 neg, and some people tell me to remove the neg. I have my front fork dialed in but I'm just now starting to tune my rear shock. I ride front range colorado chunky trails pretty aggressively with drops here and there.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm now on a coil shock but when I was riding a Topaz I messed around spacers a lot. I settled on zero volume spacers and a little running a little less sag with higher pressure. With positive spacers I feel like it really messed with the rebound on deeper compressions and since there's no high speed rebound adjustment it was always a compromise. For a while I was using 1 neg spacer to help keep the sag a bit higher with less pressure but in the end it seemed to perform best with no spacers.

I think the Ripmo suspension performs quite a bit different than my Rune so comparing them probably isn't a great idea. When I was really trying to dial it in with spacers I found a section of downhill I wanted it to perform well on and rode it with different spacers each time until I settled on what felt best. Just make sure you bring a clean rag and don't let any dirt in the air can. Also be careful not to pinch a seal so you don't end up walking back.


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## Thr33ve (Jan 20, 2020)

V4 Ripley with Topaz T3 190x45, 165# rider, 170PSI bladder, 190PSI main chamber, 2 spacers +ve, 0 spacers -ve

I recently started fiddling with my rebound knob on a whim (I had it on set and forget to 5 clicks from open) and noticed that there's pretty much negligible variance in rebound damping between full open and full closed, which concerned me. I let out all the air in the main chamber and went to the extremes on the rebound and there was noticeable difference between the extremes. Same at 50 PSI. At 100 PSI, the differences were pretty minor. At 150 PSI - 190PSI, there was no discernable difference between the rebound extremes. 

Any guesses as to what might be the problem? I'll be calling DVO in the morning, obviously.


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## Jrose152 (Jan 24, 2021)

Thr33ve said:


> V4 Ripley with Topaz T3 190x45, 165# rider, 170PSI bladder, 190PSI main chamber, 2 spacers +ve, 0 spacers -ve
> 
> I recently started fiddling with my rebound knob on a whim (I had it on set and forget to 5 clicks from open) and noticed that there's pretty much negligible variance in rebound damping between full open and full closed, which concerned me. I let out all the air in the main chamber and went to the extremes on the rebound and there was noticeable difference between the extremes. Same at 50 PSI. At 100 PSI, the differences were pretty minor. At 150 PSI - 190PSI, there was no discernable difference between the rebound extremes.
> 
> Any guesses as to what might be the problem? I'll be calling DVO in the morning, obviously.


Interested to hear what they say.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Thr33ve said:


> V4 Ripley with Topaz T3 190x45, 165# rider, 170PSI bladder, 190PSI main chamber, 2 spacers +ve, 0 spacers -ve
> 
> I recently started fiddling with my rebound knob on a whim (I had it on set and forget to 5 clicks from open) and noticed that there's pretty much negligible variance in rebound damping between full open and full closed, which concerned me. I let out all the air in the main chamber and went to the extremes on the rebound and there was noticeable difference between the extremes. Same at 50 PSI. At 100 PSI, the differences were pretty minor. At 150 PSI - 190PSI, there was no discernable difference between the rebound extremes.
> 
> Any guesses as to what might be the problem? I'll be calling DVO in the morning, obviously.


It works too good at times that's it


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

Jrose152 said:


> Suggestions for 150lbs riding weight on my ripmo AF? Curious as to how much psi and pos/negative spacers. Bike came 3pos 1 neg, and some people tell me to remove the neg. I have my front fork dialed in but I'm just now starting to tune my rear shock. I ride front range colorado chunky trails pretty aggressively with drops here and there.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk


Had a Ripmo AF (160lbs rider) and was using 2 spacer on the positive chamber only and 170psi (175 psi on the bladder)


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Hey all, I'm thinking of buying a used Topaz to replace my ailing Fox Performance DPS. Do you know if the Topaz stroke length can be changed? I find all sorts of listings for 210x55mm but I need 210x50mm. Thanks!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

robomatic said:


> Hey all, I'm thinking of buying a used Topaz to replace my ailing Fox Performance DPS. Do you know if the Topaz stroke length can be changed? I find all sorts of listings for 210x55mm but I need 210x50mm. Thanks!


Yes, I removed a spacer inside mine to increase the stroke and so I think you could go the other way as well. I'm sure that DVO could give you more guidance, but I think it would work fine.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

You need this but check with DVO ,they are fine lads

Travel Spacer Topaz - DVO Suspension


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Awesome, thanks for the reply ya'll! Looks like their volume reducers are out of stock so I'll email and ask when it'll be back.


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## JB450 (Mar 31, 2019)

robomatic said:


> Awesome, thanks for the reply ya'll! Looks like their volume reducers are out of stock so I'll email and ask when it'll be back.


They are the same travel spacers as the SRsuntour TriAir (obviously)

I purchased them from envelo.cc

Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

I did some reshimming on my topaz, figured I would post here since I haven't seen anybody talk about it much here lately.
It's a 200x51 on a intense primer (130mm travel) and I'm 185-190 lbs geared up. The settings I run are:
Air PSI: 230
Positive spacers: 2
Negative Spacers: 1
Bladder:200
Rebound: 6 or 7 clicks from full closed
I wanted to add some compression damping since the open setting felt like I was blowing through the travel too easily and the middle setting felt too firm like I was skipping over high frequency junk. I also wanted to firm up the compression in the closed setting since I really only use it for climbs.
Anyways I copied other folks here adding a 6 x 20 x 0.15mm shim to the valve near the reservoir to firm up the 'closed' settings (people on here reported recommendations from DVO of up to two additional shims here)
The main valve was the same as someone posted here (Compression:1 x 8x22x0.15, 1 x 8x20x0.15, 1 x 8x18x0.15, clamp / Rebound: 2 x 8x16x0.1) so I added a 8x22x0.1mm shim at the front of the compression side to try and keep the change small.
Local trails are still thawing out so no rides on it yet, but bouncing around in the garage seems to confirm that the closed setting is a bit firmer.
I'll keep tinkering with it and report back if I settle on something.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> I did some reshimming on my topaz, figured I would post here since I haven't seen anybody talk about it much here lately.
> It's a 200x51 on a intense primer (130mm travel) and I'm 185-190 lbs geared up. The settings I run are:
> Air PSI: 230
> Positive spacers: 2
> ...


Thanks! I'd love to hear what you get out of it.

I was about to start messing with my own tunes on the Topaz but got a Jade X instead. So the Topaz is back in it's case. I am messing around with my DVO Diamond shim stack but also waiting for trails to dry out.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

alex.k said:


> ...
> P.S. the bladder pressure isn't for tuning, set it for your weight.


That is a forum factoid that somehow takes hold and gets repeated. Of course the bladder pressure is a tuning device. There is a range of pressure depending on your weight exactly as in the main chamber. Only difference is that you adjust the main chamber in a, say, plus/minus 10 psi range, while you adjust the bladder in a narrower range, say plus/minus 5 psi.

For the record at 72 Kg, Ibis Mojo HD3, I am now pretty set at 195/173 without any spacer. One click rebound or all open. I'd be curious to try a faster rebound.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Davide said:


> That is a forum factoid that somehow takes hold and gets repeated. Of course the bladder pressure is a tuning device. There is a range of pressure depending on your weight exactly as in the main chamber. Only difference is that you adjust the main chamber in a, say, plus/minus 10 psi range, while you adjust the bladder in a narrower range, say plus/minus 5 psi.
> 
> For the record at 72 Kg, Ibis Mojo HD3, I am now pretty set at 195/173 without any spacer. One click rebound or all open. I'd be curious to try a faster rebound.
> ​


+/- 5psi indeed, just not for tuning


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

alex.k said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the topaz isn't adjustable at all in terms of setting the air pressure. Same way that the aircan pressure is set to your weight, so is the bladder. I've found it's really pointless to be playing with pressures, with any suspension product I've used, the recommended pressure always comes out as the ideal.


While I don't use the bladder pressure for tuning it has a pretty large effect on damping. I think someone heavy won't notice much of a difference since they should be at 200psi anyway.

The positive and negative spacers also perform as advertised and are by far the easiest to adjust of any air shock.

Pressure someone runs can also be drastically different. If someone has smooth trails with heavy g loads or jump line they'll be using higher pressures than someone riding roots and rocks. Lots of personal preference plays into that too.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

From experience I've gathered the bladder pressure goes like this:

170-5psi is for 65-72kg
175-180 for 72-78kg
180-5 for 78-84kg
185-190 for 84-89kg
190-5 for 89-94kg

Match this to the recommended main chamber air pressure.

For anyone looking to stiffen the lockout I have an extra 15x0.5mm shim that I can give, msg me.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

alex.k said:


> I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the topaz isn't adjustable at all in terms of setting the air pressure. Same way that the aircan pressure is set to your weight, so is the bladder. I've found it's really pointless to be playing with pressures, with any suspension product I've used, the recommended pressure always comes out as the ideal.


A pretty strange limb. A unique "ideal recommended pressure" does not exist. For any air shock there is a range of adjustments that depends on your weight, how you set up the shock other than air pressure, your bike, and trail you are on.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

alex.k said:


> From experience I've gathered the bladder pressure goes like this:
> 
> 170-5psi is for 65-72kg
> 175-180 for 72-78kg
> ...


Right, I'm 73.5kg and rode with 170 in the bladder but 200psi in main with no spacers. Less than 190psi in main would make me bottom out often. If I was going to ride jump lines in a bike park or somewhere with big drops pumping up the bladder to 190psi was very helpful.

Messing with the shim stack would have been better of course but it was nice having at least some simple adjustability.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Well, I believe the bladder pressure can't be quite that directly connected to rider weight(what Alex mentioned), although it is true to some degree(heavy rider + small bladder pressure = risk of cavitation). The leverage ratio of bikes suspension, what, where and how you ride also affects how one might set up their bladder pressure. Suspension can be firmed up by incresing the bladder pressure above the recommendation, but I'm not sure if many would like to do that, as it tends to negatively affect small bump compliance...

Air pressure on main chamber however is a valid tuning parameter, it depends also on what bike and linkage design you might have and how much sag is preferred. Same bike can be well tuned with quite different sag numbers, depending where and how one rides. Sag is quite directly linked to the main chamber air pressure. The spacers will also affect to some degree, but generally it is not that straight forward to set pressures just depending on the rider weight...


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

If anyone finds a topaz in 200x57 please let me know. Trying to find one for my Ibis HD5. Thanks!


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

what tuning option does bladder pressure give you that can't be achieved with air can pressure?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

spo0n said:


> what tuning option does bladder pressure give you that can't be achieved with air can pressure?


More bladder pressure firms up compression damping. Pressure in the main can is just spring rate.

Spring supports weight, damping controls the movement.

Typically bladder pressure is just used to stop cavitation. Shim stack tunes are far better for tuning damping.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

spo0n said:


> what tuning option does bladder pressure give you that can't be achieved with air can pressure?


From the DVO Manual and Website: Understanding the Bladder | DVO Suspension Tech Website

"The bladder is a tuning feature to tailor the feel of the shock to the rider."

"The pressure within the bladder will have a drastic affect on performance. ... The bladder pressure (also) has an effect on the entire stroke of the shock. The higher the bladder pressure the firmer the shock will be. The lower the pressure, the softer. Lighter riders can run a lower bladder pressure and heavier riders should ride a higher pressure."

The main benefits of the bladder is the lack of stiction. (Compared to my previous half dozen Fox shocks it is a huge improvement.) The great bonus is that it also tunes the firmness of the shock uniformly through its range. Think of it as moving the whole spring rate graph up or down. This is different from the effect of having more or less pressure in the main air chamber, or using more or less spacers. Those actions change the shape of the spring curve.


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Ok so I bought a used shock and it was listed as 210 x 50mm, which is what I need on my bike. But on my first ride yesterday I felt super harsh bottom out once or twice, despite having an appropriate amount of air in there. I look and see that I'm actually not using my full travel, I've still got like 1" of stroke in there.

And to test it out again I did a bunny hop to flat in a parking lot and was able to do the same thing. I took all the air out of the shock and then this what it looks like with no air. What's happening? Did I get sold the wrong size??

Let me know if the pics are hard to make out, I can take more. Thanks for the replies!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

robomatic said:


> Ok so I bought a used shock and it was listed as 210 x 50mm, which is what I need on my bike. But on my first ride yesterday I felt super harsh bottom out once or twice, despite having an appropriate amount of air in there. I look and see that I'm actually not using my full travel, I've still got like 1" of stroke in there.
> 
> And to test it out again I did a bunny hop to flat in a parking lot and was able to do the same thing. I took all the air out of the shock and then this what it looks like with no air. What's happening? Did I get sold the wrong size??
> 
> ...


Probably has a travel spacer inside the shock to limit the stroke to 50mm. Measure how much of the shock staunchion is being used. If it's less than 50mm you can take the spacer out.

If you the stroke length is correct and nothing else is wrong with the shock you might need more pressure.


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Ok so here's what's weird. When I add air from full bottom out, measure the stroke at full pressure, the sag indicator is at 2" which is pretty much 50mm which is correct. However, there's an extra inch of travel, so the full length of the stroke is 3", or 76mm. How could that even be possible? The only two travel lengths for 210 are 50mm and 55mm.

And yeah, the damper body has 210x50/55mm printed on it so it should only have those two options.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

robomatic said:


> Ok so here's what's weird. When I add air from full bottom out, measure the stroke at full pressure, the sag indicator is at 2" which is pretty much 50mm which is correct. However, there's an extra inch of travel, so the full length of the stroke is 3", or 76mm. How could that even be possible? The only two travel lengths for 210 are 50mm and 55mm.
> 
> And yeah, the damper body has 210x50/55mm printed on it so it should only have those two options.


The length of the shock body is no indication of the stroke of the shock. Pump it up to extend it and measure the body from the bottomed out sag ring to the end of the air can.


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Rick Draper said:


> The length of the shock body is no indication of the stroke of the shock. Pump it up to extend it and measure the body from the bottomed out sag ring to the end of the air can.


Yeah you're right. I took off the shock and compared it to my old one. I matched the top eyelets and the DVO is slightly longer, probably accounting for the 5mm difference. So I guess I was sold a 210x55mm.

Even still, I'm bottoming out the shock it seems like. Does that mean DVO's bottom out doesn't push the sag ring off the shock body?


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> More bladder pressure firms up compression damping. Pressure in the main can is just spring rate.
> 
> Spring supports weight, damping controls the movement.
> 
> Typically bladder pressure is just used to stop cavitation. Shim stack tunes are far better for tuning damping.


I am kinda doubting it affects the damping. The same amount of oil must travel through the base valve regardless of bladder pressure, it acts like a spring in parallel to the main spring. The oil is under higher pressure with higher bladder pressure, but the pressure drop between the oil reservoir and the shock body is the same.

Unless the shock was experiencing cavitation at the lower bladder pressure...


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## silentG (May 18, 2009)

It may be worth letting out the main can pressure and then filling the shock using the method outlined in this DVO video on Youtube

IIRC that pressurizes the negative and positive side of the can where not doing it can lead to some funky stuff.

In my experience the Topaz will end up with the o-ring for travel right at the bottom of the shaft but not off the shaft when you bottom out, never had a harsh feeling Topaz bottom out so something is up there I think or you ride much harder than I do.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

spo0n said:


> I am kinda doubting it affects the damping. The same amount of oil must travel through the base valve regardless of bladder pressure, it acts like a spring in parallel to the main spring. The oil is under higher pressure with higher bladder pressure, but the pressure drop between the oil reservoir and the shock body is the same.
> 
> Unless the shock was experiencing cavitation at the lower bladder pressure...


Yeah the bladder pressure adds extra spring preload, and that's all. The compression damping doesn't change


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Yeah the bladder pressure adds extra spring preload, and that's all. The compression damping doesn't change


Have any dyno results? I'm not necessarily doubting this claim but higher bladder pressure has a much different feel than higher pressure in the main.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> Have any dyno results? I'm not necessarily doubting this claim but higher bladder pressure has a much different feel than higher pressure in the main.


Yeah, because it adds spring preload. At top out the net force in the air can is zero, however there is no negative spring opposing the bladder so it's slightly preloading the shock.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

spo0n said:


> Yeah, because it adds spring preload. At top out the net force in the air can is zero, however there is no negative spring opposing the bladder so it's slightly preloading the shock.


Of course it's going to add a very small amount of spring preload like any IFP/bladder but it's small amount of air pressing against a non compressible fluid. The way I'm thinking of it more bladder pressure will create more resistance for oil to travel through the compression loader shim stack. Wouldn't this be a similar effect to having a firmer shim stack in the reservoir?

I assume it wouldn't have much effect on the mid valve.

I am just trying to have a better understanding as to exactly how this works. I'm on a Jade X now but it has the same bladder. Higher pressure has a substantial effect on how firm the shock feels with no other changes made. It also has no perceivable effect on the spring rate or the sag. Pretty much the same as it was on my Topaz.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Fajita Dave said:


> Have any dyno results? I'm not necessarily doubting this claim but higher bladder pressure has a much different feel than higher pressure in the main.


Of course I do, the increased bladder pressure feels different because it doesn't have a negative chamber, so will make the bike sit fractionally higher, just like adding preload to a coil spring


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Of course I do, the increased bladder pressure feels different because it doesn't have a negative chamber, so will make the bike sit fractionally higher, just like adding preload to a coil spring


So would using the bladder pressure on my Jade X basically let me fine tune the spring rate with no actual effect on damping? How would it compair to using a 400lbs spring vs a 450lbs spring? Currently on 400 which is a bit soft but 450 might be to firm.

When tuning a shock would you want to use the least amount of bladder pressure to avoid cavitation and tune strictly with shims. Or is there a reason to use bladder/IFP pressure for tuning?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Fajita Dave said:


> So would using the bladder pressure on my Jade X basically let me fine tune the spring rate with no actual effect on damping? How would it compair to using a 400lbs spring vs a 450lbs spring? Currently on 400 which is a bit soft but 450 might be to firm.
> 
> When tuning a shock would you want to use the least amount of bladder pressure to avoid cavitation and tune strictly with shims. Or is there a reason to use bladder/IFP pressure for tuning?


It would be fine tuning yes, but more like adding preload than increasing spring rate. The Jade X would gain a small increase in overall spring rate due to the 14mm shaft but you get a proportional increase of preload at the same time. So I would first try a 450 spring and if it is too firm then you could try some more bladder pressure (or find a 425 spring)

I personally don't advocate using bladder pressure for tuning ever, you are correct it needs to be the lowest possible without cavitating and thats all. Higher pressure increases friction and preload force which are usually undesirable


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

JohnnyC7 said:


> It would be fine tuning yes, but more like adding preload than increasing spring rate. The Jade X would gain a small increase in overall spring rate due to the 14mm shaft but you get a proportional increase of preload at the same time. So I would first try a 450 spring and if it is too firm then you could try some more bladder pressure (or find a 425 spring)
> 
> I personally don't advocate using bladder pressure for tuning ever, you are correct it needs to be the lowest possible without cavitating and thats all. Higher pressure increases friction and preload force which are usually undesirable


Thanks! So like most things in cycling there's a lot of marketing behind DVOs claim with bladder pressure. This definitely helped me wrap my head around it acting as spring preload.

It was still useful on my Topaz on the rare occasion I rode jump lines. It was a much firmer platform at 200psi for pumping transitions to build speed without jacking up my spring rate or having the LSC lever fully closed. Good LSC/HSC adjustment still would have been better.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I personally don't advocate using bladder pressure for tuning ever, you are correct it needs to be the lowest possible without cavitating and thats all. Higher pressure increases friction and preload force which are usually undesirable


So, is there any way we can make this statement more quantitative? Plot with rider weight on x-axis and psi at cavitation threshold on y-axis?


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

half_man_half_scab said:


> So, is there any way we can make this statement more quantitative? Plot with rider weight on x-axis and psi at cavitation threshold on y-axis?


Not really, in DVO shocks it depends on how firm the main piston valving is, so you won't need more pressure in the bladder unless you change to a firmer tune


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

half_man_half_scab said:


> So, is there any way we can make this statement more quantitative? Plot with rider weight on x-axis and psi at cavitation threshold on y-axis?


The two big factors are how firm the valving is and how fast the rider can compress it.
The DVO Topaz base valve doesn't do much of anything to help.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> Of course it's going to add a very small amount of spring preload like any IFP/bladder but it's small amount of air pressing against a non compressible fluid. The way I'm thinking of it more bladder pressure will create more resistance for oil to travel through the compression loader shim stack. Wouldn't this be a similar effect to having a firmer shim stack in the reservoir?
> 
> I assume it wouldn't have much effect on the mid valve.
> 
> I am just trying to have a better understanding as to exactly how this works. I'm on a Jade X now but it has the same bladder. Higher pressure has a substantial effect on how firm the shock feels with no other changes made. It also has no perceivable effect on the spring rate or the sag. Pretty much the same as it was on my Topaz.


The bladder pressurizes the oil on both sides of the base valve. The pressure drop between the main body and the reservoir is the same, so the shims have the same amount of resistance


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Ok, just following up here. Rick Draper's right, one should not measure based on the exposed length, but the stroke length from the end of the shock body, in my case 50mm. There's a lot of length extra, but that's just structural I guess. Fox and probably other manufacturers have their exposed length equal to the stroke, in part because the shock body is longer than DVO's so more of the stroke is hidden. Seems like DVO's could be that way depending on your shock dimensions, but don't count on it!

I gotta say, it's still weird to me that the end of the shock doesn't equal 50/55mm, because I've never ever heard of that, but whatever, I'll try to get used to it!

I talked to DVO customer service and, like a lot of others here, they did a great job giving me info and even recommending me a setup to start. Awesome!!


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

spo0n said:


> The bladder pressurizes the oil on both sides of the base valve. The pressure drop between the main body and the reservoir is the same, so the shims have the same amount of resistance


I worded that poorly. At higher pressure it would take more force to compress the bladder. If the bladder is harder to compress I was thinking this would have a similar effect to a stiffer tune on the compression assembly in the reservoir.


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> I worded that poorly. At higher pressure it would take more force to compress the bladder. If the bladder is harder to compress I was thinking this would have a similar effect to a stiffer tune on the compression assembly in the reservoir.


Yes, but it would be position sensitive (spring), rather than speed sensitive (damping)

It's like a spring in the reservoir that works on the shaft indirectly, through the oil

I think Intend Hover uses something similar, where the IFP actually IS the main spring


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Fajita Dave said:


> So like most things in cycling there's a lot of marketing behind DVOs claim with bladder pressure.


Not sure about marketing, but I've had multiple conversations with the guys as DVO and they've always said bladder pressure doesn't affect damping but more of the overall spring rate.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

EatsDirt said:


> Not sure about marketing, but I've had multiple conversations with the guys as DVO and they've always said bladder pressure doesn't affect damping but more of the overall spring rate.


I feel like this is the kind of thing that often gets lost in translation between the product manufacturers and the media (eg Pinkbike) writing about it on their website


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

spo0n said:


> I think Intend Hover uses something similar, where the IFP actually IS the main spring


Just like the Fox ALPS and Stratos shocks did like 2 decades ago!


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Dougal said:


> The two big factors are how firm the valving is and how fast the rider can compress it.
> The DVO Topaz base valve doesn't do much of anything to help.


As it is stated that heavier riders should have higher bladder pressure to avoid cavitation, does this come more from rebound side, rather than compression side?

Logic being if heavy and light rider have same bike & shock and ride similar manner on same terrain, the compression speeds would be very similar as compression movements are compensated with the higher main can air pressures(or coil spring), while on the rebound side the higher spring rate would cause faster speeds on rebound direction, hence also more prone to cavitation. I'm aware I might be lost with this logic, but if this is the case, please confirm if so...


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Dougal said:


> Just like the Fox ALPS and Stratos shocks did like 2 decades ago!


what do you think of the Intend shocks dougal?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

EatsDirt said:


> Not sure about marketing, but I've had multiple conversations with the guys as DVO and they've always said bladder pressure doesn't affect damping but more of the overall spring rate.


Might be a case of vague information for us non-experts so our minds fill in the blanks with whatever we think makes sense. Taken from DVO's site:

"The pressure within the bladder will have a drastic affect on performance. As we talked about before, the higher the pressure the less chance you have of cavitation. The pressure range of the bladder is 170-200PSI. The bladder pressure also has an effect on the entire stroke of the shock. The higher the bladder pressure the firmer the shock will be. The lower the pressure, the softer. Lighter riders can run a lower bladder pressure and heavier riders should ride a higher pressure."

Another thing adding to potential confusion is under tuning features they have "bladder pressure adjustment" under damper features. Spring features is a separate line.


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## TheGenErik1 (Aug 14, 2019)

Looking at possibly getting a DVO Topaz T3 for my 2021 Specialized Levo. The Levo has a very linear curve, would this be a good match? I'm anything I get will be an improvement over the Stock Fox DPS. Fox DPX2 are backordered and I kinda think this might be better anyways but figured I would ask.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

It's about time people in this thread start accepting bladder pressure doesn't change the damping... Unless it's causing cavitation...


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## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

Hoping someone might be able to help here.

I stripped the 2mm hex hole for the bleed screw on my Topaz. Dont want to remove the screw yet until I have a replacement but DVO is out of stock
.





Damper Plug Kit Topaz – DVO Suspension







dvosuspension.com





Anyone know where I can find one?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

TheGenErik1 said:


> Looking at possibly getting a DVO Topaz T3 for my 2021 Specialized Levo. The Levo has a very linear curve, would this be a good match? I'm anything I get will be an improvement over the Stock Fox DPS. Fox DPX2 are backordered and I kinda think this might be better anyways but figured I would ask.


Should be OK. Its an air shock, so you can load the positive chamber with volume spacers to get the correct curve. This shock was heavily used on the Ripmos which also have a linear curve (at least V1 did). It's a good shock, at the caliber of DPX2 with some perks.

I would suggest calling DVO and asking them. The shock comes in a few tunes, they will guide you to the right version or even tune it for you.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Hoping someone might be able to help here.
> 
> I stripped the 2mm hex hole for the bleed screw on my Topaz. Dont want to remove the screw yet until I have a replacement but DVO is out of stock
> .
> ...


I did the same on 2nd full service. I had to drill it out with a left hand drill bit. Unfortunately I couldn't find an alternative but DVO did have them in stock at the time. I'm sure a screw with the same thread could be made to work in a sloppy way as a last resort. Definitely not the best idea though.

The new screw seems to be a denser grade of aluminum than the original green screw.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

mike156 said:


> It's about time people in this thread start accepting bladder pressure doesn't change the damping... Unless it's causing cavitation...


Oh, but if it doesn't change damping, why don't they just recommend everybody running bladder pressure at 200psi, regardless of the rider weight..?


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## spo0n (Nov 7, 2020)

Verttii said:


> Oh, but if it doesn't change damping, why don't they just recommend everybody running bladder pressure at 200psi, regardless of the rider weight..?


AKA exactly what every other brand does?

it has the same effect as preloading the spring, so slightly less initial force required.

At top out the positive and negative chambers are equalized, so net force there is 0. However the bladder pressure is extending the shock, so overall the shock has a slight preload. This is what the wave spring in rockshox super deluxe is supposed to counter. Lighter riders can run a lower ifp pressure to reduce this preload effect.

Heavier riders risk cavitation at lower pressures, because there is too much pressure drop behind the rebound piston which causes cavitation. Higher bladder pressure means ALL of the oil in the shock is under pressure.

DVO themselves said it's a spring:



EatsDirt said:


> Not sure about marketing, but I've had multiple conversations with the guys as DVO and they've always said bladder pressure doesn't affect damping but more of the overall spring rate.


Yes it means that there is more force opposing the oil in the reservoir, but you miss the point. It's not sensitive to speed. The bladder takes the same amount of force to compress, regardless of the speed you compress it.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Hoping someone might be able to help here.
> 
> I stripped the 2mm hex hole for the bleed screw on my Topaz. Dont want to remove the screw yet until I have a replacement but DVO is out of stock
> .
> ...


Monarch plus one fits which is a real surprise.


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## JB450 (Mar 31, 2019)

Rick Draper said:


> Monarch plus one fits which is a real surprise.


Not really. Monarch plus and Topaz are both made by srsuntour.

Some parts are interchangeable. But not all parts.

Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

JB450 said:


> Not really. Monarch plus and Topaz are both made by srsuntour.
> 
> Some parts are interchangeable. But not all parts.
> 
> Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk


I think there was a touch of sarcasm there

the monarch ones come in every service kit so are fairly plantiful.
Or else depending on your part of the world you should be able to contact your DVO distributor (or dvo directly) and they will have a used one at least. I have a ton of them but being in NZ I suspect I'm not the most efficient place to get it from


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## Seniorbrucio (Dec 28, 2020)

JohnnyC7 said:


> I think there was a touch of sarcasm there
> 
> the monarch ones come in every service kit so are fairly plantiful.
> Or else depending on your part of the world you should be able to contact your DVO distributor (or dvo directly) and they will have a used one at least. I have a ton of them but being in NZ I suspect I'm not the most efficient place to get it from


I live in Dubai and there isnt a DVO rep,/dist here. At any rate even if there was the customer service here is so bad most places (incl Sram dist) dont stock things and take forever to get them.

So I usually order online anyways. My plan was to ordrr from DVO if they had them and get them to mail it to my US courier address.

I also have a courier address for NZ if you are able to sell me one.

Thanks again.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Seniorbrucio said:


> Hoping someone might be able to help here.
> 
> I stripped the 2mm hex hole for the bleed screw on my Topaz. Dont want to remove the screw yet until I have a replacement but DVO is out of stock
> .
> ...


You can convert it into a Torx T10 using a tool bit. Place the shaft on a hard surface and tap away.


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Is anyone else's topaz leaking air? I air up my topaz to 180-185 psi, and if i leave it for a week to ride it the next weekend, it'll lose ~50-80psi of air. I'll hook up my shock pump and it'll regularly read ~100psi. Normal air loss from the shock pump at my air pressure is maybe 10psi.

This is pretty annoying and while it probably won't noticeably change during a ride, i have to air it up even if it's a day between rides. And of course getting the right psi isn't exact so the feel of the shock changes slightly between rides. I just want it consistent! I'm coming off a Fox DPS and this is miles ahead in terms of performance, but reliability has been subpar.

Bought the shock used, it was serviced by DVO recently and that was confirmed by them.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

JohnnyC7 said:


> ...
> 
> I personally don't advocate using bladder pressure for tuning ever, you are correct it needs to be the lowest possible without cavitating and thats all. Higher pressure increases friction and preload force which are usually undesirable


You keep repeating that but it makes very little sense. Of course you use the bladder for tuning the shock. Even you do. You tune the bladder to find "the lowest possible (setting) without cavitating". (Whatever that means in practice, but that is a different story). I, and most riders I am sure, use the blader pressure as DVO suggests. And relatively small bladder pressure changes do make a significant difference in how the shock behaves.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

robomatic said:


> Is anyone else's topaz leaking air? I air up my topaz to 180-185 psi, and if i leave it for a week to ride it the next weekend, it'll lose ~50-80psi of air. I'll hook up my shock pump and it'll regularly read ~100psi. Normal air loss from the shock pump at my air pressure is maybe 10psi.
> 
> This is pretty annoying and while it probably won't noticeably change during a ride, i have to air it up even if it's a day between rides. And of course getting the right psi isn't exact so the feel of the shock changes slightly between rides. I just want it consistent! I'm coming off a Fox DPS and this is miles ahead in terms of performance, but reliability has been subpar.
> 
> Bought the shock used, it was serviced by DVO recently and that was confirmed by them.


I'm guessing you're talking about the main air can and not the bladder. Start with the basics first and make sure your shrader valve core is tight. Otherwise the most likely place could be around the sleeve for the volume spacers. If you changed the volume spacers and accidentally damaged one of the o-rings it could leak.


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

Thanks Fajita, indeed I'm referring to the main can. Last night I took the thing apart and regreased o-rings with slickoleum, so hopefully that helps. This morning I sprayed soapy water all over the shock, including the air can valve and didn't get any bubbles, so we'll see if pressure holds over the course of a few days.


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## robomatic (Mar 27, 2017)

robomatic said:


> Thanks Fajita, indeed I'm referring to the main can. Last night I took the thing apart and regreased o-rings with slickoleum, so hopefully that helps. This morning I sprayed soapy water all over the shock, including the air can valve and didn't get any bubbles, so we'll see if pressure holds over the course of a few days.


Update in case this helps anyone in the future: This seems to do the trick. I left the bike alone for 4 days or so and the main air can pressure was what I expected. It started at 180-185 and when I measured it days later, it was ~170-175, which I expect is from reattaching the shock pump.

More detail, I took apart the air can and the volume spacer sleeve and regreased every o-ring I saw, as well as the wiper on the can. Then I put it back together very tightly, the sleeve separate from the main can, and made sure all the rings were tucked in nicely.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

Hey guys, my girlfriend is having issues using full travel on her Liv Intrigue Advanced with a DVO Topaz 2 shock. I am wondering if anyone has experience with revalving the mid valve or the compression loader to lessen the high speed compression. I called DVO today and they pummeled me with information, scoffed at me for riding a "trail bike" at a bike park, told me the complete opposite and wrong information for how to tune the positive and negative air chambers, told me I could remove the top shim on the midvalve but then told me the shock is going to be way to firm for the Liv Intrigue no matter what and my only option was to send the shock in for a custom tune. I'm thinking maybe they were just having a busy day as normally they have great service but I hung up pretty pissed with their answer. I've worked on DVO Jades and Onyx forks before, pretty sure I can handle a small shim stack adjustment myself...Anyways, here are the details:

2021 Liv Intrigue Advanced 27.5" 140mm rear travel
DVO Topaz 2 185 x 52.5 trunnion mount
Rider weight 130 lbs
Rider height 5'2"
Air chamber 150 psi 30% sag
Bladder 170 psi
Shock lever open position
Rebound 5 clicks out from fully closed
0 bands in positive chamber
0 bands in negative chamber

The initial sensitivity, mid stroke, and rebound feels good but she is only using 45 mm of shock stroke on high speed rooty and chunky trails which means 7.5 mm of shock stroke is being left untouched. On her bike that equals 20mm of rear wheel travel! I do not expect her to use full travel often but only being able to use 120mm of 140mm total real travel means something is off.

Does anyone know how to make the compression a bit lighter to help use full travel?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

provin1327 said:


> Hey guys, my girlfriend is having issues using full travel on her Liv Intrigue Advanced with a DVO Topaz 2 shock. I am wondering if anyone has experience with revalving the mid valve or the compression loader to lessen the high speed compression. I called DVO today and they pummeled me with information, scoffed at me for riding a "trail bike" at a bike park, told me the complete opposite and wrong information for how to tune the positive and negative air chambers, told me I could remove the top shim on the midvalve but then told me the shock is going to be way to firm for the Liv Intrigue no matter what and my only option was to send the shock in for a custom tune. I'm thinking maybe they were just having a busy day as normally they have great service but I hung up pretty pissed with their answer. I've worked on DVO Jades and Onyx forks before, pretty sure I can handle a small shim stack adjustment myself...Anyways, here are the details:
> 
> 2021 Liv Intrigue Advanced 27.5" 140mm rear travel
> DVO Topaz 2 185 x 52.5 trunnion mount
> ...


I am NOT a qualified person for shim stack tuning advice and I can't stress that enough 😂. Anyway from what I've been reading the face shims primarily control slower speed motion and high speed damping is tuned more by the smaller diameter shims at the top of the stack.

If it's the same as the Topaz T3 the mid valve is:
.15x22
.15x20
.15x18

I'm gunna assume if you just remove the top shim (smallest diameter) it's going to be way to soft. But I could be totally wrong. I also doubt you'd hurt anything by trying it. Best tune would probably involve using thinner .10 shims. Somewhere I've read three .10 shims equal the effect of one .15 shim. If that's true I imagine it would open up a lot of tuning options for a lighter rider.

I don't think any suspension professionals will be giving you free advice on what shims to throw in there. I still highly advise you get help from someone who knows what they're doing unless you're all in on experimenting for the fun of it like myself.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

Fajita Dave said:


> I am NOT a qualified person for shim stack tuning advice and I can't stress that enough 😂. Anyway from what I've been reading the face shims primarily control slower speed motion and high speed damping is tuned more by the smaller diameter shims at the top of the stack.
> 
> If it's the same as the Topaz T3 the mid valve is:
> .15x22
> ...


Yes they recommended removing the 18mm shim. Why do you assume that would make it way too soft? It does not bother me to at least try it out and your assumption of using .10 shims does make sense, that would seem to give more tuning options.

On a side note, has anyone run less than 170 psi in the bladder. I thought that was what DVO recommended the minimum to be but I am thinking running 160 would soften things up a bit too. I dont want to run it too low and risk cavitation.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

provin1327 said:


> Hey guys, my girlfriend is having issues using full travel on her Liv Intrigue Advanced with a DVO Topaz 2 shock. I am wondering if anyone has experience with revalving the mid valve or the compression loader to lessen the high speed compression. I called DVO today and they pummeled me with information, scoffed at me for riding a "trail bike" at a bike park, told me the complete opposite and wrong information for how to tune the positive and negative air chambers, told me I could remove the top shim on the midvalve but then told me the shock is going to be way to firm for the Liv Intrigue no matter what and my only option was to send the shock in for a custom tune. I'm thinking maybe they were just having a busy day as normally they have great service but I hung up pretty pissed with their answer. I've worked on DVO Jades and Onyx forks before, pretty sure I can handle a small shim stack adjustment myself...Anyways, here are the details:
> 
> 2021 Liv Intrigue Advanced 27.5" 140mm rear travel
> DVO Topaz 2 185 x 52.5 trunnion mount
> ...


what is her sag at?


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> what is her sag at?


30% sag which is what Liv recommends for the bike.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I'd try running a bit lower pressure. FWIW, I'm running about 1psi per lb of riding weight and I rarely use the last 5mm of shock travel. It's usually about a 4-5' drop to flat to get it to bottom out. I think I have two positive spacers as well.

If there's too much sag after dropping pressure, add a spacer to the negative side.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

provin1327 said:


> 30% sag which is what Liv recommends for the bike.


I guess you can pull out a shim or replace the stack with thinner shims if you want to try it. If you haven't already I would reccomend tuning the spring rate first, if for no reason other than it's a lot easier to change psi than reshimming the midvalve. Giant may reccomend 30% but there's nothing set in stone and different trails may dictate different spring rates (not to mention that different people will weight the bike differently while measuring sag). Another thing worth noting is that it's not necessarily desirable to bottom out suspension every run if there's no hits, jumps or g outs that force the suspension to bottom out when the spring rate feels good otherwise.

Maybe hers is shimmed differently but I weigh ~185lbs and felt the stock compression tune was too open, but say it is set for someone roughly my weight then if your girlfriend weighs roughly 2/3s of what I weigh then removing 1 of the 3 shims may get you in the right ballpark to correlating damping force with her weight (That's a lot of hand waiving and there's other factors in play and this is very much a guess from my part). The midvalve compression stack also has a restrictor shim (not sure the technical term) that limits the amount of maximum shim bending so it may be the case that by removing a shim (without replacing it with a same thickness clamp shim) you are giving the shims less total room to bend and actually increasing the high speed damping.

There's a lot of variables that are hard to know what will happen without a dyno so I wish you best of luck if you go about reshimming things.

Disclaimer: I'm just a bike nerd who mostly lurks in the DVO forums, not a professional.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

mike156 said:


> I'd try running a bit lower pressure. FWIW, I'm running about 1psi per lb of riding weight and I rarely use the last 5mm of shock travel. It's usually about a 4-5' drop to flat to get it to bottom out. I think I have two positive spacers as well.
> 
> If there's too much sag after dropping pressure, add a spacer to the negative side.


Thanks for the advice. That is a good point. i was not thinking about the negative springs effect on sag. I'll try that and see if it produces what we're looking for.

@WhatsUpcountry I agree and would prefer to get the dialed settings via all the other tuning options that DVO has before digging into the shim stack. I see what you are saying about not trying to "force" bottom out either and I agree you should only bottom out on the largest of hits but as the shock currently sits it's so far from actual bottom that something needs to be adjusted for sure.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

provin1327 said:


> Hey guys, my girlfriend is having issues using full travel on her Liv Intrigue Advanced with a DVO Topaz 2 shock. I am wondering if anyone has experience with revalving the mid valve or the compression loader to lessen the high speed compression. I called DVO today and they pummeled me with information, scoffed at me for riding a "trail bike" at a bike park, told me the complete opposite and wrong information for how to tune the positive and negative air chambers, told me I could remove the top shim on the midvalve but then told me the shock is going to be way to firm for the Liv Intrigue no matter what and my only option was to send the shock in for a custom tune. I'm thinking maybe they were just having a busy day as normally they have great service but I hung up pretty pissed with their answer. I've worked on DVO Jades and Onyx forks before, pretty sure I can handle a small shim stack adjustment myself...Anyways, here are the details:
> 
> 2021 Liv Intrigue Advanced 27.5" 140mm rear travel
> DVO Topaz 2 185 x 52.5 trunnion mount
> ...


So she is using 85% of travel going down a rooty and chunky trail, sounds fine to me. That's what I am getting. Full travel happens in G outs and bad landings. I mean really bad.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Spring rate isn't going to fix a damping issue. It's free and easy to try though. At her weight she is far lighter than what DVO targets for their stock tune.

If DVO said remove the top shim I'd try that as a starting point.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

provin1327 said:


> Hey guys, my girlfriend is having issues using full travel on her Liv Intrigue Advanced with a DVO Topaz 2 shock. I am wondering if anyone has experience with revalving the mid valve or the compression loader to lessen the high speed compression. I called DVO today and they pummeled me with information, scoffed at me for riding a "trail bike" at a bike park, told me the complete opposite and wrong information for how to tune the positive and negative air chambers, told me I could remove the top shim on the midvalve but then told me the shock is going to be way to firm for the Liv Intrigue no matter what and my only option was to send the shock in for a custom tune. I'm thinking maybe they were just having a busy day as normally they have great service but I hung up pretty pissed with their answer. I've worked on DVO Jades and Onyx forks before, pretty sure I can handle a small shim stack adjustment myself...Anyways, here are the details:
> 
> 2021 Liv Intrigue Advanced 27.5" 140mm rear travel
> DVO Topaz 2 185 x 52.5 trunnion mount
> ...


And using a spacer or two on the negative chamber? You'll have to drop the pressure and consequently achieve full travel easily.

Enviado do meu iPhone usando o Tapatalk


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## Bajadog (Jul 31, 2016)

provin1327 said:


> Hey guys, my girlfriend is having issues using full travel on her Liv Intrigue Advanced with a DVO Topaz 2 shock. I am wondering if anyone has experience with revalving the mid valve or the compression loader to lessen the high speed compression. I called DVO today and they pummeled me with information, scoffed at me for riding a "trail bike" at a bike park, told me the complete opposite and wrong information for how to tune the positive and negative air chambers, told me I could remove the top shim on the midvalve but then told me the shock is going to be way to firm for the Liv Intrigue no matter what and my only option was to send the shock in for a custom tune. I'm thinking maybe they were just having a busy day as normally they have great service but I hung up pretty pissed with their answer. I've worked on DVO Jades and Onyx forks before, pretty sure I can handle a small shim stack adjustment myself...Anyways, here are the details:
> 
> 2021 Liv Intrigue Advanced 27.5" 140mm rear travel
> DVO Topaz 2 185 x 52.5 trunnion mount
> ...


To provide another data point, I weigh 135 and used to have an Ibis Mojo 3 with a Topaz 3 on it. I had the same issue with not using all of the travel. I did a lot of experimentation and ended up with 130 psi in the shock, 155 psi in the bladder (less than DVO recommends), and 2 bands in the negative chamber. It worked pretty well for me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

provin1327 said:


> Thanks for the advice. That is a good point. i was not thinking about the negative springs effect on sag. I'll try that and see if it produces what we're looking for.
> 
> @WhatsUpcountry I agree and would prefer to get the dialed settings via all the other tuning options that DVO has before digging into the shim stack. I see what you are saying about not trying to "force" bottom out either and I agree you should only bottom out on the largest of hits but as the shock currently sits it's so far from actual bottom that something needs to be adjusted for sure.


 If you're using 80-90% of the stroke then that's fine. I've found that if you are reaching the end of the travel often then you are usually using less travel the rest of the time. Sounds counter intuitive but does that make sense? It's a rabbit hole I see people fall down al the time, they might be getting full travel without harsh bottom outs but it rides really harsh so they think its still too stiff or needs tokens but then that gets even worse! When using data I see they are riding way too deep in the stroke so we bump up the pressure (which they never would have considered) and things become way better.

Reaching full travel takes specific conditions that not every one sees all the time so I wouldn't sweat it. At least you know she has some reserve there!

Compression damping doesn't really come in to it as you can bottom a shock out at very low shaft speeds where its not creating much force (eg on a jump face). Also DVO has some of the softest factory tunes out there so it's likely to be either a good setting already or not so far out that its hampering performance.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks for the replies everyone. I took DVOs recommendation and sent the shock in for a custom tune. Being that they worked with Liv to create a tune for this shock and bike combo I figured it'd be best to start with the damper that they recommend and then dial it in fully with air spring tuning.


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

Question for DVO Topaz owners:
In rear wheel *drop test*; does it bouncing or glued to the ground?
I recently bought myself a used Topaz. I did the air can service. I didn't change the seals. I just cleaned and added fresh grease.
In drop test. My rear wheel bounced around 1 feet. (30cm)
Any solutions?


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## B3nnyH (Aug 17, 2016)

Nikola777 said:


> Question for DVO Topaz owners:
> In rear wheel *drop test*; does it bouncing or glued to the ground?
> I recently bought myself a used Topaz. I did the air can service. I didn't change the seals. I just cleaned and added fresh grease.
> In drop test. My rear wheel bounced around 1 feet. (30cm)
> Any solutions?


Drop testing doesn't really tell you anything about the shock - it probably won't move much, and your tire pressure will probably influence how it behaves when dropped unloaded than anything else.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Drop test does absolutely nothing. Go for a ride and see how it does.


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

On trails does great!
But if I can choose, I’d rather it doesn’t bounce in drop test. ;-) ....Because I managed to find a couple of videos where a drop test was done and the rear wheel stays glued to the ground.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

The bike is gonna be bouncing because of your tire, not your shock. Just buy a super soft compound tire, put in cushcore and drain the air out of your tires if you want to make a video of your bike not bouncing. Then put your normal tire back on, air it up to a reasonable pressure and then go ride.


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

Friends bike with Fox Float DPS Evol Performance shock + dhr exo (no cush core)does not bounce at all. In Race ready setup.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

So it rides great!!! But now you want to make it ride worse so it does something pointless


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## Nikola777 (Jun 4, 2017)

Exactly.


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## JB450 (Mar 31, 2019)

Nikola777 said:


> On trails does great!
> But if I can choose, I'd rather it doesn't bounce in drop test. ;-) ....Because I managed to find a couple of videos where a drop test was done and the rear wheel stays glued to the ground.


Halve your air pressure if you don't want it to bounce in a entirely useless drop test.

Then go ride it and work out that the drop test is stupid, and means absolutely nothing.

Sent from my INE-LX2 using Tapatalk


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

The drop rear wheel test is meaningless, if you really wanna play with that, just put your rear tire to 35psi and it will glue to the group when you drop it. 

But that serves no purpose at all


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Nikola777 said:


> Question for DVO Topaz owners:
> In rear wheel *drop test*; does it bouncing or glued to the ground?
> I recently bought myself a used Topaz. I did the air can service. I didn't change the seals. I just cleaned and added fresh grease.
> In drop test. My rear wheel bounced around 1 feet. (30cm)
> Any solutions?


Tests of a bike without a rider are meaningless. Except for self driving bikes.


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

Davide said:


> Oh my! This is a great shock! It spent a week on my Ibis HD3 and it is a marriage made in heaven. It pedals great, incredible slow speed bump compliance (waaaaay better than the DPX2 it replaces), and very composed at speed.
> 
> I spent the week tuning it to my riding style and still experimenting but it worked great just with the suggested tuning. At 72 Kg (160 pounds) these are my settings. All comments are for the lever in the downhill position
> 
> ...


Pick up a Topaz T3 very recently with only 3-4 rides in. Initial settings as suggested by DVO feel pretty good. I'm 160lbs and ride a Ripley size medium.

I did notice I had some "lack of pedal support" in the open setting but only when I flipped the compression lever to the medium setting. I immediately noticed more of my pedaling was transferred to the bike. I set the bike from 197psi in the main and 180psi bladder with no rings to 195/175 with two rings in the negative chamber. DVO suggested adding 1-2 rings to improve pedal support. I decided to go for 2 rings instead on 1 so the difference would be obvious and not subtle. No positive rings were added. Then I went for a ride!

The bike felt slightly less smooth thru the rough stuff, roots, small; rocks etc but way more stiff after that. I plan to move remove a ring to be at just 1 ring in the negative and see how things go.


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

Grande said:


> Pick up a Topaz T3 very recently with only 3-4 rides in. Initial settings as suggested by DVO feel pretty good. I'm 160lbs and ride a Ripley size medium.
> 
> I did notice I had some "lack of pedal support" in the open setting but only when I flipped the compression lever to the medium setting. I immediately noticed more of my pedaling was transferred to the bike. I set the bike from 197psi in the main and 180psi bladder with no rings to 195/175 with two rings in the negative chamber. DVO suggested adding 1-2 rings to improve pedal support. I decided to go for 2 rings instead on 1 so the difference would be obvious and not subtle. No positive rings were added. Then I went for a ride!
> 
> The bike felt slightly less smooth thru the rough stuff, roots, small; rocks etc but way more stiff after that. I plan to move remove a ring to be at just 1 ring in the negative and see how things go.


Try 190psi+ in the bladder.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Grande said:


> Pick up a Topaz T3 very recently with only 3-4 rides in. Initial settings as suggested by DVO feel pretty good. I'm 160lbs and ride a Ripley size medium.
> 
> I did notice I had some "lack of pedal support" in the open setting but only when I flipped the compression lever to the medium setting. I immediately noticed more of my pedaling was transferred to the bike. I set the bike from 197psi in the main and 180psi bladder with no rings to 195/175 with two rings in the negative chamber. DVO suggested adding 1-2 rings to improve pedal support. I decided to go for 2 rings instead on 1 so the difference would be obvious and not subtle. No positive rings were added. Then I went for a ride!
> 
> The bike felt slightly less smooth thru the rough stuff, roots, small; rocks etc but way more stiff after that. I plan to move remove a ring to be at just 1 ring in the negative and see how things go.


I am now 155 pounds and I am down to 193/173 psi and no rings with my HD3 medium. The bike feels very plush, but it might be because it has more travel than a Ripley. Yes, if you flip the compression you notice the increase of pedaling transfer, I think that is unavoidable, and increasing the bladder pressure does make the shock ride higher overall and as a consequence feel more efficient. I never went above 180 and as I mentioned I preferred a lower psi to favor plushness. Keep experimenting until you find the best compromise! This is what this shock is for!

BTW: I installed a DVO Diamond a month ago and fork and shock REALLY complement each other. Never been so happy on a bike!


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

Davide said:


> I am now 155 pounds and I am down to 193/173 psi and no rings with my HD3 medium. The bike feels very plush, but it might be because it has more travel than a Ripley. Yes, if you flip the compression you notice the increase of pedaling transfer, I think that is unavoidable, and increasing the bladder pressure does make the shock ride higher overall and as a consequence feel more efficient. I never went above 180 and as I mentioned I preferred a lower psi to favor plushness. Keep experimenting until you find the best compromise! This is what this shock is for!
> 
> BTW: I installed a DVO Diamond a month ago and fork and shock REALLY complement each other. Never been so happy on a bike!


Thanks for the post. Good to hear someone of similar weight has similar settings. Bike, terrain, and personal preference also factor but sounds like I'm not too far off. I picked up a Sapphire with delivery in 2-3 days. Should be a full go by next weekend at the latest!


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Davide said:


> I am now 155 pounds and I am down to 193/173 psi and no rings with my HD3 medium. The bike feels very plush, but it might be because it has more travel than a Ripley. Yes, if you flip the compression you notice the increase of pedaling transfer, I think that is unavoidable, and increasing the bladder pressure does make the shock ride higher overall and as a consequence feel more efficient. I never went above 180 and as I mentioned I preferred a lower psi to favor plushness. Keep experimenting until you find the best compromise! This is what this shock is for!
> 
> *BTW: I installed a DVO Diamond a month ago and fork and shock REALLY complement each other. Never been so happy on a bike!*


This is good to hear. I grabbed a Diamond last year for super cheap and love it. Now I think I'm going to sell my DPX2 and get a Topaz, whenever I can find one!


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> This is good to hear. I grabbed a Diamond last year for super cheap and love it. Now I think I'm going to sell my DPX2 and get a Topaz, whenever I can find one!


Could contact DVO directly. Or try Dirt Merchant Cycles in Boulder, CO.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Grande said:


> Could contact DVO directly. Or try Dirt Merchant Cycles in Boulder, CO.


Funny you say that, after posting above I figured WTH and went over to Pinkbike to see if there were any for sale. Ad by Dirt Merchant popped up so I emailed them. Waiting to hear back. I just bought new TRP brakes from them last week when nobody else had them in stock . Good company to deal with!


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> Funny you say that, after posting above I figured WTH and went over to Pinkbike to see if there were any for sale. Ad by Dirt Merchant popped up so I emailed them. Waiting to hear back. I just bought new TRP brakes from them last week when nobody else had them in stock . Good company to deal with!


Yup. That's where I bought my Topaz. Super fast FedEx shipping. FYI they sell the hardware too. They are a shop as well, not just sales. So I asked them to press the hardware for me before they shipped out. That way I can just pop the shock in and be done.

Good luck!


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Grande said:


> Yup. That's where I bought my Topaz. Super fast FedEx shipping. FYI they sell the hardware too. They are a shop as well, not just sales. So I asked them to press the hardware for me before they shipped out. That way I can just pop the shock in and be done.
> 
> Good luck!


Got a reply: "negative, sold out until July"......bummer.


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## Grande (Feb 19, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> Got a reply: "negative, sold out until July"......bummer.


If you phone DVO directly they will put you on the list for next shipment.


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

Hey folks, I am in need of some semi-emergency help here. Trying to get ready for a ride tomorrow am and I took the air can off my Topaz T3 to add a spacer to the negative chamber. Not my first time in an air shock, and I watched Ronnie's video. Whole process went pretty smooth. So it seemed. Aired it back up, went to check the sag, and when I sat on it, the shock fully compressed as if it were empty. I checked the air can pressure, it hadn't changed a bit since I aired it back up. Took the shock back apart, inspected o rings and carefully reassembled. Aired it up, and this time it set sag correctly. Took it out in the driveway to bounce around on it and it sucked back in, blowing all of the travel. Incredibly slow to return. Checked air can pressure and bladder pressure- both are just as I set them. I need some help please!!!


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## kamper11 (Feb 8, 2008)

hmmm - maybe the o-ring btw the neg/pos chambers has moved or is compromised? so there is basically 1 air chamber as a result?


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## gluestick (Aug 4, 2017)

kamper11 said:


> hmmm - maybe the o-ring btw the neg/pos chambers has moved or is compromised? so there is basically 1 air chamber as a result?


Although I cannot see any damage, this appears to be the culprit. Properly seated and well lubed, I must have nicked it.


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## sonicreducer (Mar 29, 2008)

kamper11 said:


> hmmm - maybe the o-ring btw the neg/pos chambers has moved or is compromised? so there is basically 1 air chamber as a result?


It's what I would guess ... Check if the middle oring is in the right place .

Sent from my HD1913 using Tapatalk


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## Hillridge (Jan 22, 2010)

Sorry if this has been answered recently, I haven't gone through all the posts. Has anyone run a shockwiz on their Topaz? I'm trying to figure out the best way to mount it and which hose to use. I didn't see anything about it being incompatible. 

This is on a 2021 Ripmo. I have a few rides on it and it feels ok, but not dialed yet. I pedal strike a lot, especially on uphill tech, so I suspect I need more air. My sag didn't seem overly high though.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Hillridge said:


> Sorry if this has been answered recently, I haven't gone through all the posts. Has anyone run a shockwiz on their Topaz? I'm trying to figure out the best way to mount it and which hose to use. I didn't see anything about it being incompatible.
> 
> This is on a 2021 Ripmo. I have a few rides on it and it feels ok, but not dialed yet. I pedal strike a lot, especially on uphill tech, so I suspect I need more air. My sag didn't seem overly high though.


Did that on a ripmo. Forgot which hose I used, but it was mounted on the side of the can, and I don't remember having any issues, other than a couple of minutes to figure out the location.

I also pedal strike a lot. The shockwiz will put you at about 30% sag, which is not going to do much for pedal strikes. I would suggest removing the negative spacer to get the shock to be more linear at the top of the stroke. The shockwiz will not say anything about negative, so try the wiz with both spacer or no spacer in the negative chamber.

Didn't solve the pedal strikes for me. I kind of got used to it, but I miss the specialized enduro that rarely striked.


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## Thorquin Kiki (Jun 15, 2018)

Has anyone replaced the damper shaft and seal head? My shock is blown and the sides of the damper shaft are scratched to hell. I likely need to replace the damper shaft and seal head.


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Do you guys think what makes the shocks more supple is what also makes it sit in its travel more?


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> I also pedal strike a lot. The shockwiz will put you at about 30% sag, which is not going to do much for pedal strikes. I would suggest *removing the negative spacer* to get the shock to be more linear at the top of the stroke.


Shouldn't you do the exact opposite?

When you increase volume on negative spring it will move more eagerly in the beginning of the stroke and affect longer in the stroke, it actually makes the air spring regressive in the initial part of the travel. When you decrease negative air chamber, it will move a bit less eagerly in the initial part, (=less regressive) and effect less deep in the travel. So if you suffer from pedal strikes and would like to keep your sag and bottom out resistance about the same, I'd rather recommend putting more spacers on the negative side...


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

Thorquin Kiki said:


> Has anyone replaced the damper shaft and seal head? My shock is blown and the sides of the damper shaft are scratched to hell. I likely need to replace the damper shaft and seal head.


Yes, many times. You will need a bullet tool to install the sealhead over the shaft without damaging the seal. Also make sure you get the new grey taller sealhead and not the old green one



Verttii said:


> Shouldn't you do the exact opposite?
> 
> When you increase volume on negative spring it will move more eagerly in the beginning of the stroke and affect longer in the stroke, it actually makes the air spring regressive in the initial part of the travel. When you decrease negative air chamber, it will move a bit less eagerly in the initial part, (=less regressive) and effect less deep in the travel. So if you suffer from pedal strikes and would like to keep your sag and bottom out resistance about the same, I'd rather recommend putting more spacers on the negative side...


It depends on the bike and the exact set up but it could be either option. Bear in mind a regressive spring curve is firm for the first third, so regardless of your sag there is a softer spring rate through the middle of the travel. Therefore the bike will be more prone to wallowing under weight transfer. While a larger neg chamber might sag more, the spring rate will be higher after sag so more resistant to wallowing.

As well as frame design, it depends whether the pedal strike is happening during easy light pedalling, or during compressions or g-outs in ruts


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

JohnnyC7 said:


> It depends on the bike and the exact set up but it could be either option. Bear in mind a regressive spring curve is firm for the first third, so regardless of your sag there is a softer spring rate through the middle of the travel. Therefore the bike will be more prone to wallowing under weight transfer. While a larger neg chamber might sag more, the spring rate will be higher after sag so more resistant to wallowing.
> 
> As well as frame design, it depends whether the pedal strike is happening during easy light pedalling, or during compressions or g-outs in ruts


Well, OP mentioned that the problem is especially appearing in "uphill tech", so it isn't compressions or g-outs in my mind. Sag was mentioned to be about 30%, so that would kind of just fit on the first third where this affects.

A good illustration on how this negative spring adjustment is affecting the beginning part of the spring curve, this graph is from some old excel sheet modelling generic air spring, which I found years back on some similar discussion. Probably not technically 100% accurate, but illustrates the effect on the spring curve shape when negative chamber size is altered...










Edit: added some words to make it understandable, shouldn't write anything in too much of a hurry...


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Are you Topaz owners finding that the shock is high maintenance? DVO told me the bladder should be checked every two weeks...


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

jay_paradox said:


> Are you Topaz owners finding that the shock is high maintenance? DVO told me the bladder should be checked every two weeks...


What does this "Bladder should be checked every two weeks", mean exactly? To check the bladder pressure every two weeks likely..?

If it is just the bladder pressure, then it kind of makes sense, and it is quick and easy to do. If the bladder would leak, and pressure decrease, it would cause risk of (excessive) cavitation and premature wear/damage to the internal parts. I've had Topaz on my Jeffsy now for some 3½ years or so and I've done air can service maybe 5 times and changed oil and bladder once. Bladder and air can pressure I check occasionally, probably once per month or so, depending how much I ride. So to me Topaz hasn't been high maintenance, same or less than any previous shock I've had(couple RS, fox and one X-fusion).

Nice thing also is that when you eventually need to do some maintenance, instructions and spare parts are easily available so it is possible to do that DIY...


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## Hillridge (Jan 22, 2010)

Verttii said:


> Well, OP mentioned that the problem is especially appearing in "uphill tech", so it isn't compressions or g-outs in my mind. Sag was mentioned to be about 30%, so that would kind of just fit on the first third where this affects.
> 
> A good illustration on how this negative spring adjustment is affecting the beginning part of the spring curve, this graph is from some old excel sheet modelling generic air spring, which I found years back on some similar discussion. Probably not technically 100% accurate, but illustrates the effect on the spring curve shape when negative chamber size is altered...
> 
> ...


Thanks for the replies. I ran the wiz for a few varied rides, and it's scoring ~92% after I added a little more air than I originally had. It recommended slightly softer high and low speed compression, any way to adjust that with this shock? Dynamic sag was 39%. I'm told that the Ripmo has a special tune specific for that bike. I'm not sure if this means altered internals, or just a pre-set spacer configuration. The bike did not come with any extra spacers. I may try to increase the air further to see if it helps reduce strikes without making things too harsh. I always run the shock wide open, and don't switch modes for climbs, etc.

Some of the pedal striking may just be getting used to an 8 year technology jump and the modern trend for lower BBs, but I'm hoping most of it can be remedied, as it's annoying to ride trails I've been on a hundred times and mash roots and rocks that have never given me issue before.

Possibly unrelated, I'm also having a frustrating issue with my feet slipping off of the pedals, also mostly on uphill tech, but I haven't nailed down the cause of it yet. Same shoes, same style pedals, been riding flats for years, and I've slipped a foot a bunch of times now. One this past week after landing a tiny jump cost me a bunch of stitches to my shin. The weird thing is that I've had zero problems with chunky downhill tech, and I rode a lot of it recently. I don't think this is related to the suspension, but haven't ruled it out either.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Hillridge said:


> Thanks for the replies. I ran the wiz for a few varied rides, and it's scoring ~92% after I added a little more air than I originally had. It recommended slightly softer high and low speed compression, any way to adjust that with this shock? Dynamic sag was 39%. I'm told that the Ripmo has a special tune specific for that bike. I'm not sure if this means altered internals, or just a pre-set spacer configuration. The bike did not come with any extra spacers. I may try to increase the air further to see if it helps reduce strikes without making things too harsh. I always run the shock wide open, and don't switch modes for climbs, etc.
> 
> Some of the pedal striking may just be getting used to an 8 year technology jump and the modern trend for lower BBs, but I'm hoping most of it can be remedied, as it's annoying to ride trails I've been on a hundred times and mash roots and rocks that have never given me issue before.
> 
> Possibly unrelated, I'm also having a frustrating issue with my feet slipping off of the pedals, also mostly on uphill tech, but I haven't nailed down the cause of it yet. Same shoes, same style pedals, been riding flats for years, and I've slipped a foot a bunch of times now. One this past week after landing a tiny jump cost me a bunch of stitches to my shin. The weird thing is that I've had zero problems with chunky downhill tech, and I rode a lot of it recently. I don't think this is related to the suspension, but haven't ruled it out either.


38% sag is a lot, that may be your problem. Bike is too low, so it hits the ground.

Compression tuning: They are talking about shim stack, shock internals. Not volume spacer rings which are user adjustable. Ibis is usually using low compression tunes on their shocks. There is no way to change it yourself without a complete shock disassembly, this is not your standard shock service (lube and seals). Shock tuners usually do this for customers, the technical term is revalving (changing the shim stack of the valves in the damper). This is not something your average bike shop does.

Adding positive spacers can alleviate some of the weak compression, especially high speed compression. You can also try testing with the compression lever at the middle position. It adds the compression that the wiz is asking for.

Pedals strikes are a ripmo special. I tested many bikes and did not experience more strikes. But at 38% sag, you should expect it. If the static sag is greater than ibis recommends, than add air until it follows the recommendation, regardless of what the shockwiz says.

For the pedal slips, try more rebound. I found that I need a lot more rebound than what the shockwiz says, the bike buckles on jumps. Try something like 2 clicks from close, or close it completely and open one click at a time and test.


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## Hillridge (Jan 22, 2010)

Thanks. 
I think the shockwiz is over reporting sag. When I first set it up, I compared what the app said for static sag to how the o-ring measured vs the total stroke, and the wiz was on the high side. I am going to redo calibration before my next run since I previously rode on a hot day, and my air pressure is way down now anyway. I'd expect dynamic sag to be higher than static, what's a reasonable number?

Bummer that strikes in general are inherent to the Ripmo. I guess it's the price you pay for lower center of gravity. I kind of regret going with the 175mm cranks that came on the XL instead of dropping down to the 170 the small/medium have. That little bit of extra room may have made a difference.

I'm a little confused by your recommendation - "If the static sag is less than ibis recommends, than add air until it follows the recommendation, regardless of what the shockwiz says.". Did you mean to say "if the static sag is *greater* than ibis recommends"?

I'm already running rebound 1-2 clicks out of max dampening, and it doesn't feel overly bouncy. I don't have a lot of room to adjust that in the (-) direction since I run the shock at 220+ psi, but I can close it off another click and see how it feels.

What characteristic does the bladder pressure affect? I currently have that at around 190.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Hillridge said:


> Thanks for the replies. I ran the wiz for a few varied rides, and it's scoring ~92% after I added a little more air than I originally had. It recommended slightly softer high and low speed compression, any way to adjust that with this shock? Dynamic sag was 39%. I'm told that the Ripmo has a special tune specific for that bike. I'm not sure if this means altered internals, or just a pre-set spacer configuration. The bike did not come with any extra spacers. I may try to increase the air further to see if it helps reduce strikes without making things too harsh. I always run the shock wide open, and don't switch modes for climbs, etc.
> 
> Some of the pedal striking may just be getting used to an 8 year technology jump and the modern trend for lower BBs, but I'm hoping most of it can be remedied, as it's annoying to ride trails I've been on a hundred times and mash roots and rocks that have never given me issue before.
> 
> Possibly unrelated, I'm also having a frustrating issue with my feet slipping off of the pedals, also mostly on uphill tech, but I haven't nailed down the cause of it yet. Same shoes, same style pedals, been riding flats for years, and I've slipped a foot a bunch of times now. One this past week after landing a tiny jump cost me a bunch of stitches to my shin. The weird thing is that I've had zero problems with chunky downhill tech, and I rode a lot of it recently. I don't think this is related to the suspension, but haven't ruled it out either.


You probably need a little more pressure still. Otherwise I have no doubt you just need time to adjust your riding to fit a modern bike.

Your feet coming off the pedals in technical climbs is probably pedal kick back. On most modern bikes there's some chain growth when the suspension compresses causing the pedals to rotate back. When the suspension rebounds the pedal might drop out from under your foot a little causing your foot to slip. It's just something else you need to adapt to on a modern FS bike.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Hillridge said:


> I'm a little confused by your recommendation - "If the static sag is less than ibis recommends, than add air until it follows the recommendation, regardless of what the shockwiz says.". Did you mean to say "if the static sag is *greater* than ibis recommends"?


Correct, I will fix it for future reference. The static and dynamic sag come out about the same for me. It's more than just the static position when the suspension is not moving, it's also how hard it ramp. That's another effect that reduces the bike sinking into the stroke and hitting pedals on the ground.

I am riding a large with 170mm cranks. Invest in good crank boots 😀


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Verttii said:


> What does this "Bladder should be checked every two weeks", mean exactly? To check the bladder pressure every two weeks likely..?
> 
> If it is just the bladder pressure, then it kind of makes sense, and it is quick and easy to do. If the bladder would leak, and pressure decrease, it would cause risk of (excessive) cavitation and premature wear/damage to the internal parts. I've had Topaz on my Jeffsy now for some 3½ years or so and I've done air can service maybe 5 times and changed oil and bladder once. Bladder and air can pressure I check occasionally, probably once per month or so, depending how much I ride. So to me Topaz hasn't been high maintenance, same or less than any previous shock I've had(couple RS, fox and one X-fusion).
> 
> Nice thing also is that when you eventually need to do some maintenance, instructions and spare parts are easily available so it is possible to do that DIY...


I find DVO topaz low maintenance. but the bladder will fart down a lot sooner than the main.

I routinely check and set it every ride. [accounting for the loss when attaching the pump], bladder will lose about 20psi in a month or so sitting still, unridden.....roughly.

I set my spare to 200/200, and after 6 months in a box the bladder was down to 80, the main was 180

it is a lot of pressure in a tiny volume and ordinary seal losses are going to be seen more readily on these tiny volumes at high pressure

otherwise my two topaz seem solid, no muss no fuss.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

I'm closing to my one year used of topaz, is it mandatory to change all the seals for the shock?
I've got all the seal kit including the aircan one on stand by, but not sure should I just change oil or must I replace every single seal inside.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

jpjp18 said:


> I'm closing to my one year used of topaz, is it mandatory to change all the seals for the shock?
> I've got all the seal kit including the aircan one on stand by, but not sure should I just change oil or must I replace every single seal inside.


Main seals you need to replace is the air piston seal, air can seals and the damper shaft seals. Everything else should be fine depending on how many hours you have on it. At 200ish hours or a few years old I'd replace all of them.

Pretty much any seals that move during normal operation need to be replaced. The ones that don't move much I don't worry about and never had any issues.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Fajita Dave said:


> Main seals you need to replace is the air piston seal, air can seals and the damper shaft seals. Everything else should be fine depending on how many hours you have on it. At 200ish hours or a few years old I'd replace all of them.
> 
> Pretty much any seals that move during normal operation need to be replaced. The ones that don't move much I don't worry about and never had any issues.


For those that do not need to be replaced, should I take it out to regrease it or just leave it in?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

jpjp18 said:


> For those that do not need to be replaced, should I take it out to regrease it or just leave it in?


If you take it out definitely replace it.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

I pretty much just changed the oil and bladder to new one when I serviced my Topaz after some 2 years or of use. I did change the dynamic seals on the air can side, so the dust wiper and X-rings, but I did not dismantle the damper side, just changed the oils and bladder and did the bleed. It might be good to change the damper shaft seal if it leaks, but that is probably not mandatory either. if you open some part where the seal gets exposed, better to at least regrease it, and if you have it open and spare seal is readily available, why not change it to a new one too. But I think it is pointless to open some place just to regrease/replace a static o-ring...


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Understood, I'm pretty remote and in order to get seal kit I need to shipped it in abroad. If possible I try not to replace it.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

jpjp18 said:


> Understood, I'm pretty remote and in order to get seal kit I need to shipped it in abroad. If possible I try not to replace it.


You could try reusing them but there's a little more risk they'll leak. Worst case scenario is it does leak and you'll have to disassemble the shock again. You might end up needing to replace more o-rings with that second rebuild though.

So general rule of thumb is if you disassemble anything with seals you reassemble with new seals to ensure there won't be any issues later.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Verttii said:


> I pretty much just changed the oil and bladder to new one when I serviced my Topaz after some 2 years or of use. I did change the dynamic seals on the air can side, so the dust wiper and X-rings, but I did not dismantle the damper side, just changed the oils and bladder and did the bleed. It might be good to change the damper shaft seal if it leaks, but that is probably not mandatory either. if you open some part where the seal gets exposed, better to at least regrease it, and if you have it open and spare seal is readily available, why not change it to a new one too. But I think it is pointless to open some place just to regrease/replace a static o-ring...


Did you flush and refill the damper without taking it out? Was it through the bladder?


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> Did you flush and refill the damper without taking it out? Was it through the bladder?


Well not exactly, that was maybe a bit insufficient description. I did remove the stanchion, or the lower part of the shock where the oil is(whatever the official name is), but I didn't open anything on the upper part, except to remove the bladder. So I didn't open the damper shaft, main piston or the piggyback body, inside which you have quite many of those small static seals.
The upper part I just cleaned with alcohol and let it dry and any old oil to drip out, but no proper "flushing" as such. So there might have been some drops of the old oil left, but figured it'll dilute to the new oil so shouldn't be a problem, this isn't a F1 race afterall.

The bleeding part was somewhat tricky and not that well described(IMHO) in the instruction, and I had to re-do that couple of times until I got it right. I had a syringe from Rockshox bleed kit that fits the thread in the stanchion, and I found it was somewhat cleaner approach to cycle the shock several times with the lever in different positions, when the bladder isn't in place yet, as small bubbles seems to migrate from the damping/rebound adjusters to the piggyback. The Bladder & valve part was easy to push/pull with a shock pump, so no special tool needed there. I also found that adding pressure to the bladder when syringe is connected is a bad idea; When the bleed screw is not in place, there is nothing the bladder can push against and the pressure seems to leak easily to the piggyback and need to start over  
Once bleed screw is in place, the bladder pushes against the oil and can't expand so that air could escape.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I don't know about "maintenance" but yeah, mine loses about 10psi a week on the bladder.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

My Topaz and Jade X never had an issue with air leakage.

Only issue I had with my Topaz was right at 100hours for the first service the air piston seal started leaking past. Caused the shock to suck down so I needed to pump it up to 350psi and pulling the shaft out to pass back by the equalization port before I could air it down.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

i'm trying to do a rebuild on my topaz t3 but the damper end cap is stuck, doesn't even budge. There's a note on it says torque to 27mm. Would I not destroy the lower end on the stanchion that's clamped on the vice?

Perhaps I need a longer wrench?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

jpjp18 said:


> i'm trying to do a rebuild on my topaz t3 but the damper end cap is stuck, doesn't even budge. There's a note on it says torque to 27mm. Would I not destroy the lower end on the stanchion that's clamped on the vice?
> 
> Perhaps I need a longer wrench?


A longer wrench is good so you can apply smooth, controlled torque without trying to break it loose suddenly.

I've taken quite a few things apart from DVO now and the thread lock they use holds things a little to tight. Once you get the thread lock to break loose you'll be good to go. Just make sure your wrench has a nice tight fit and you have full coverage so you don't round off the flats for the wrench.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

a lil heat is your fren when it comes to unscrewing DVO threadlocked bits


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

127.0.0.1 said:


> a lil heat is your fren when it comes to unscrewing DVO threadlocked bits


It didn't mention any loctite on that part on manual thou.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

I just serviced my topaz t3, now it's making a high wheezing sound when compressing, bit like whistling. 
Overall nothing seem to be wrong thou, just the sound. 

I did a seal change on the air canister, piston, change oil, bleeding.
Not sure what's the caused, it works fine as normal infact more smooth since it's just serviced.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

My girlfriend is still having issues getting full travel out of her Topaz 2 on a 2021 Liv Intrigue 140mm. We sent the shock in to DVO for a custom light tune which helped a lot and we've been experimenting with dropping the air pressure and adding negative spacers but she is still leaving a lot of travel on the table. Her current settings are

Riding weight: 135 lbs
PSI: 135
Sag: 30%
Negative tokens: 3
Positive tokens: 0
Rebound: 3 clicks of damping from fully open
Bladder pressure: 170

The rebound feels great and the small bump sensitivity and climbing traction all feel perfect but she has about 10mm of travel left to hit full bottom out which on her bike equates to 26 mm of rear wheel travel.

I was under the impression that Giant/Liv bikes are fairly linear and was expecting to have to add tokens to the positive chamber but that doesn't seem to be the case.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

provin1327 said:


> My girlfriend is still having issues getting full travel out of her Topaz 2 on a 2021 Liv Intrigue 140mm. We sent the shock in to DVO for a custom light tune which helped a lot and we've been experimenting with dropping the air pressure and adding negative spacers but she is still leaving a lot of travel on the table. Her current settings are
> 
> Riding weight: 135 lbs
> PSI: 135
> ...


Actually that's the best to have slightly travel before bottom out for those emergency moment. If it feels good, that's probably in the ideal setup now.

Thou, I don't recall you can fit 3 negative band, I always tough the maximum for negative is 2 and positive is 4.

I'm around 145-150lbs with 140psi, sag 27%, -1 +3, bladder 180 and I do occasionally hit full travel as I do quite some jump.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Never use amount of travel used as a tuning indication unless your bottoming out. If it rides well just leave it. I have no idea how she rides of course but it's very likely she just isn't riding hard enough to use full travel. That doesn't mean you should make it softer.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

provin1327 said:


> My girlfriend is still having issues getting full travel out of her Topaz 2 on a 2021 Liv Intrigue 140mm. We sent the shock in to DVO for a custom light tune which helped a lot and we've been experimenting with dropping the air pressure and adding negative spacers but she is still leaving a lot of travel on the table. Her current settings are
> 
> Riding weight: 135 lbs
> PSI: 135
> ...


Are you aware that in those shocks the piston does not go all the way in at full compression, unlike other brands that do?

As far as really getting full travel, you are not supposed to get to it normally. On a hard ride 85% is what you should aim at.

If you really want to test it, do increasing drops to flat until you bottom out. At about 2-3 feet you should feel the bottom out. If you don't, then you know you have to do something to soften the shock.

I actually stopped doing it, after realizing that the only time I do a 3 foot drop to flat is while testing the suspension, so I am setting up the shock way too stiff for normal riding.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

provin1327 said:


> My girlfriend is still having issues getting full travel out of her Topaz 2 on a 2021 Liv Intrigue 140mm. We sent the shock in to DVO for a custom light tune which helped a lot and we've been experimenting with dropping the air pressure and adding negative spacers but she is still leaving a lot of travel on the table. Her current settings are
> 
> Riding weight: 135 lbs
> PSI: 135
> ...


Just leave it, getting full travel isn't a particularly useful set up metric and doesn't guarantee the bike working any better. The Giants are moderately progressive so there will be some end stroke ramp there. If lower pressure than what you have doesn't use any more travel then it will just be a case of her riding style not needing it. But its there for emergencies!

If you go much softer it will ruin climbing performance, but softer pressures also encourage faster shock speeds which means more damping force and sacrifices grip again.

Also - the new Topaz damper sealheads limit a couple of mm of stroke too, so it won't ever compress the original intended stroke


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I think we are just going to leave it as is for now and call those settings a solid baseline. She is not a terrible aggressive rider so I would expect her to have more travel in reserve than someone that rides more aggressively.


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## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Hey guys hoping you can help me on tuning. I’m about 195-200lbs without pack/riding gear. I find the topaz bobs like mad when climbing even in middle or high setting for climb mode. High setting helps some for climbs but not much. My bike turned into a pig for climbs. I am running 190psi in bladder and 215psi in shock with 30% sag. I tried 3 bands in positive chamber because I was blowing through travel and I still bottom out. I have 2 bands in negative chamber to help with climbing and climbing still sucks. Any tips? I read through the manual and maybe I’m just confused. Should I try less sag like 25% and start with zero bands then go from there? Any advice would be appreciated so I don’t dump this shock.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

stumpynerd said:


> Hey guys hoping you can help me on tuning. I'm about 195-200lbs without pack/riding gear. I find the topaz bobs like mad when climbing even in middle or high setting for climb mode. High setting helps some for climbs but not much. My bike turned into a pig for climbs. I am running 190psi in bladder and 215psi in shock with 30% sag. I tried 3 bands in positive chamber because I was blowing through travel and I still bottom out. I have 2 bands in negative chamber to help with climbing and climbing still sucks. Any tips? I read through the manual and maybe I'm just confused. Should I try less sag like 25% and start with zero bands then go from there? Any advice would be appreciated so I don't dump this shock.


You should ask DVO for a revalve,they have a running program for 100€ I guess


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## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Was hoping I didn’t have to send the shock in for revalve. Any other tips? Or I am just maxed out and need revalve.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

The tune should be ok at your weight. The older Topaz switch positions are really soft though. I'm 160lbs and rode with 200psi so I think it's safe to pump up the shock a bit more. Also try one or two bands in the negative side.

How old is this shock? Maybe it's due for a service anyway?


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

Fajita Dave said:


> The tune should be ok at your weight. The older Topaz switch positions are really soft though. I'm 160lbs and rode with 200psi so I think it's safe to pump up the shock a bit more. Also try one or two bands in the negative side.
> 
> How old is this shock? Maybe it's due for a service anyway?


Try higher pressure ,if I'm not wrong Topaz T3 can handle 300psi,check this out:



http://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/DVO-Set-Up-Guide-shock-2020.pdf


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## stumpynerd (Oct 8, 2012)

Alright I will give that a go and try more pressure. Shock is brand new. I already have 2 bands in negative chamber and 3 in positive.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

stumpynerd said:


> Alright I will give that a go and try more pressure. Shock is brand new. I already have 2 bands in negative chamber and 3 in positive.


What frame? I guess it's on the linear side regarding kinematics ,try 25% of sag


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

stumpynerd said:


> Alright I will give that a go and try more pressure. Shock is brand new. I already have 2 bands in negative chamber and 3 in positive.


Try removing the negative spacers. You may need to adjust air pressure to get back to sag.


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## stonant (Mar 11, 2016)

I weight more than you (220 lbs) and ride at 235 psi, but have the same band setup. It's definitely a soft shock, and I would recommend adding some more pressure to the main can and bring your bladder pressure up to 195 psi.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

I have 5 bands positive in mine, 200-215 main, 180-200 bladder
works great. ymmv of course, my suspension design is different


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## olivierhacking (Sep 16, 2014)

Hey guys,

I am running 210psi and 190 bladder, 3 positive spacers, 1 negative. I want to increase ride height but maintain the plush. This is an Orbea Occam. 

I was thinking:
1. Remove -ve spacer and go 220psi
2. Stay at 210psi and add another -ve spacer

Not sure which is a better idea...


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

olivierhacking said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am running 210psi and 190 bladder, 3 positive spacers, 1 negative. I want to increase ride height but maintain the plush. This is an Orbea Occam.
> 
> ...


You can try play with bladder pressure while maintaining sag, but don't go lower than 170psi on the bladder.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

olivierhacking said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am running 210psi and 190 bladder, 3 positive spacers, 1 negative. I want to increase ride height but maintain the plush. This is an Orbea Occam.
> 
> ...


3. Just increase the air pressure / decrease sag. What sag are you currently running?

I would recommend testing both/all of the mentioned options on same patch of trail and see what feels the best. I would guesstimate adding negative spacer would be the better option for reducing "dynamic sag", which I believe is what you are after... Bladder pressure adjustment is probably not the best way to attack this problem...


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Verttii said:


> 3. Just increase the air pressure / decrease sag. What sag are you currently running?
> 
> I would recommend testing both/all of the mentioned options on same patch of trail and see what feels the best. I would guesstimate adding negative spacer would be the better option for reducing "dynamic sag", which I believe is what you are after... Bladder pressure adjustment is probably not the best way to attack this problem...


As I recalled adding negative band would reduce the over the top which is the initial plushness.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

jpjp18 said:


> As I recalled adding negative band would reduce the over the top which is the initial plushness.


To some extent yes, but you can also have too much volume on negative side, making the shock "too plush" and goes too easily too deep in the travel, which I believe was the problem OP described having...

Edit: Generally it tends to be most of the times with this suspension stuff some kind of tradeoff, if you want more midstroke support, you gonna have to sacrifice some of the initial suppleness...


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

I just put a new (take off) Topaz on my Fatillac. I notice no difference in compression with the 3 settings. I’ve used the Topaz before on other bikes and still have one on my HD3 where there is a noticeable increase in damping for the 3 settings. I like to use the “not quite lock out” setting riding the road to the trails. 
As this is a newer Topaz, I’m wondering if DVO has changed the behavior of the lever on the newer shocks?


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Hobine said:


> I just put a new (take off) Topaz on my Fatillac. I notice no difference in compression with the 3 settings. I've used the Topaz before on other bikes and still have one on my HD3 where there is a noticeable increase in damping for the 3 settings. I like to use the "not quite lock out" setting riding the road to the trails.
> As this is a newer Topaz, I'm wondering if DVO has changed the behavior of the lever on the newer shocks?


Did you confirm the bladder is up to pressure?


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Cary said:


> Did you confirm the bladder is up to pressure?


Yes, this is my 3rd Topaz. Bladder at 190.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Hobine said:


> Yes, this is my 3rd Topaz. Bladder at 190.


There goes my idea for an easy solution. Try calling DVO, in my experience they are pretty poor at email, but amazing with help and information on the phone. A 5 minute call will probably get you an answer and resolution.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Hobine said:


> I just put a new (take off) Topaz on my Fatillac. I notice no difference in compression with the 3 settings. I've used the Topaz before on other bikes and still have one on my HD3 where there is a noticeable increase in damping for the 3 settings. I like to use the "not quite lock out" setting riding the road to the trails.
> As this is a newer Topaz, I'm wondering if DVO has changed the behavior of the lever on the newer shocks?


I have the topaz t3, the full lock out on mine is pretty close to a hard tail and the med is just a tad more compression than the full open. Doesn't sound right on yours unfortunately.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Bladder question…

Does increasing bladder pressure increase the spring rate or increase compression or rebound damping?

I know what it’s primary function is, but Dvo is also clear that increasing the bladder pressure will firm up the shock though it’s entire stroke.

thanks.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

the air bladder pushes back against the oil throughout the stroke, so kinda firming it up across the whole range. it doesn't damp per se, it makes the transition between compression and rebound quicker and prevents oil cavitation which wrecks the action or feel.






Understanding the Bladder | DVO Suspension Tech Website







tech.dvosuspension.com




.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Bladder question&#8230;
> 
> Does increasing bladder pressure increase the spring rate or increase compression or rebound damping?
> 
> ...


It does not change the damping, with a disclaimer that it can make damping work properly if there is too little pressure to start with.

It does add some spring rate. It's volume that is compressed with the shock, so obviously more pressure means more resistance to compression (stiffer spring).


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

Are dvo recommending we replace/update the bladder when servicing older shocks these days?

I just watched a video on YouTube and the guy mentioned dvo said they'd 'phasing out' the older one, and the new one is thicker? I dunno.

Also do we not need to put grease on the bladder anymore?


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Link?


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## Steve.E (Apr 10, 2009)

skip to 44:25


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## tastik (Aug 25, 2021)

Anyone know the following?:


1. Is Maxima Plush 5w ok to use in the Topaz T3 damper? if so, this would slightly firm up LSC and slightly slow down rebound correct?

2. Can you drain all or at least almost all the damper fluid through the bleed port and refill it again through the bleed port or does it need to be opened up?


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

tastik said:


> 2. Can you drain all or at least almost all the damper fluid through the bleed port and refill it again through the bleed port or does it need to be opened up?


It seems you want to just change the oil to fresh/different one..?

You can't get all oil out (with sensible amount of work) only via the bleed port. What I would recommend to do in your case, if point was just to change the oil: 

Remove the bladder(use ie. shockpump threaded to the bladder valve) and damper body and drain the old oil out
Rebuild according to the "Topaz full service" instruction, point 67. and onwards. So basically:
Fill in the damper body with fresh oil and screw the top part back in
Flip shock upside down in a vise and fill some oil to the piggyback
Cycle the shock couple of times to get air out from the top part
Fill the piggyback with fresh oil and remove all visible air bubbles(if any) from the oil surface(easy with a piece of rag)
Insert the bladder and lockring and pull the bladder body against the lock ring
insert syringe to bleed port and drain all air out by cycling the shock several times

Fairly straight forward procedure, only requires a bit patience/time, no special tools required.

Tip1: Dont try to add pressure to bladder before you have the bleed port screw back in tightly. If you have only syringe there, there is no "back pressure" and air will leak from bladder to the piggyback.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Expansion of the positive canister-to-sleeve port to four adjacent slits from the tiny hole that massive pressure had to flow through in both directions.










Now the stroke is more springy as expected. Previously, if you compressed the uninflated shock mounted on the bike with your finger over the port and then with the sleeve on you can notice the difference.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The "4 small holes" were never an issue, every shock with double sleeve I've seen has only "4 small holes" and it always responds really well to volume changes of the second sleeve, if it was a choke point like you suggest, it wouldn't work as well as it does, I'll say more, if it was a choke point, one small (2mm hole) like I used for a large negative conversion of a Manitou McLeod wouldn't have a chance of working properly, but it does, remember that air has very little "viscosity" and the volumes of it moving are pretty damn small with large pressure differentials (those actually help)


> Now the stroke is more springy as expected.


Don't forget, confirmation bias/ placebo is a really strong effect, also I assume you serviced the shock at the same time (you had to) which also skews the results.
With how large you made those slots, I'd be worried of fatigue cracking in the future, only time will tell.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> The "4 small holes" were never an issue, every shock with double sleeve I've seen has only "4 small holes" and it always responds really well to volume changes of the second sleeve, if it was a choke point like you suggest, it wouldn't work as well as it does, I'll say more, if it was a choke point, one small (2mm hole) like I used for a large negative conversion of a Manitou McLeod wouldn't have a chance of working properly, but it does, remember that air has very little "viscosity" and the volumes of it moving are pretty damn small with large pressure differentials (those actually help)
> 
> Don't forget, confirmation bias/ placebo is a really strong effect


It's just 1 hole and it's smaller than 2mm. As I said, try it yourself with your finger over it and then again with the sleeve. I agree that the pressure differentials actually help and make the shock feel how it does but I prefer a more defined stroke as is common with nearly all other air shocks.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

One hole sounds like too little, I agree, unless it's pretty big, I'd say a much better idea would be to drill 3 more holes (and maybe enlarge the existing one) than cutting slots in there though. I don't see how could I feel any difference cycling by hand with all the friction that's there, aspecially with the speed I'm able to generate that way being nowhere near what's going on when doing a huck to flat for example.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> One hole sounds like too little, I agree, unless it's pretty big, I'd say a much better idea would be to drill 3 more holes (and maybe enlarge the existing one) than cutting slots in there though. I don't see how could I feel any difference cycling by hand with all the friction that's there, aspecially with the speed I'm able to generate that way being nowhere near what's going on when doing a huck to flat for example.


That was the plan initially but I didn't have a drill bit small enough.
I mean compress the rear linkage.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Still, couldn't possibly create enough shaft speed to matter, and reading your original post again


alex.k said:


> As I said, try it yourself with your finger over it and then again with the sleeve.


what is that supposed to prove? By closing the port you just made the air can a lot smaller, that doesn't mimic what's happening during normal operation in any shape or form 🤔
I just cannot imagine the "damping" effect coming from an air can restriction being any significant in the grand scheme of things, what with *the damper *working in line with it 🤔


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> Still, couldn't possibly create enough shaft speed to matter, and reading your original post again
> 
> what is that supposed to prove? By closing the port you just made the air can a lot smaller, that doesn't mimic what's happening during normal operation in any shape or form 🤔


Very simple, closing the port creates one voluminous chamber behind the piston while with the sleeve on there are two chambers in effect that pressure will diffuse between. Enlarging the hole is the same as having one chamber(no choking as you mentioned).
For further understanding, the equally small hole on the negative side of the aircan makes the Topaz a four chamber shock(or two chamber with valves between the corresponding pairs).


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

No no no, you're way over simplifying things and over complicating at the same time 😜 
Irl it will be a much more dynamic effect, with smaller differences between the chambers, while closing the port completely makes it a single small chamber, also you have no negative chamber interference with no sleeve, while there is some with the sleeve on, a more representative way of checking if there is any choking going on would be to pressurize the shock and then open the "chokingly small" port and see how quickly the air escapes, I bet you it won't take much time at all, you could still check with the negative chamber, since I understand you left that port alone.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

The effect is indeed very dynamic but the differences are very much present, _please _try the procedure I mentioned(sleeve halfway on) and even with _no pressure _you'll notice the stroke will be different.
Choking isn't an issue, I'm saying, btw. The air spring is brilliantly engineered IMO, it's a more defined stroke that I wanted.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I cannot try it, as I don't have this shock yet, not yet decided if I want it either (mostly put off by the stupid dished rebound face and large low speed compression bleed, and not sure if the air can is large enough for me with a 40% progressive frame linkage)
However, I cannot imagine this theory of yours making any perceivable difference on the trail, and if there was a difference, it would actually be beneficial on the trail imo (only relevant on full travel used quickly, as in landing a drop etc.), more bottom out resistance with less spring back afterwards, almost like a hydraulic bottom out system  Shouldn't affect bump absorbtion, since most bumps use less than half the travel at once.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> I cannot try it, as I don't have this shock yet, not yet decided if I want it either (mostly put off by the stupid dished rebound face and large low speed compression bleed, and not sure if the air can is large enough for me with a 40% progressive frame linkage)
> However, I cannot imagine this theory of yours making any perceivable difference on the trail, and if there was a difference, it would actually be beneficial on the trail imo (only relevant on full travel used quickly, as in landing a drop etc.), more bottom out resistance with less spring back afterwards, almost like a hydraulic bottom out system  Shouldn't affect bump absorbtion, since most bumps use less than half the travel at once.


The main difference would be a more racy feel, the rest and what that translates to on the trail are pretty negligible I'd say.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

When you've tried it feel free to react instead of lurking in foreign threads.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I joined this thread to ask if anyone, hopefully a light person (I'm @55kg) runs the Topaz on a ~40% progressive linkage frame and if there are no issues using full travel, other (tuning) issues can be mitigated with some elbow grease.
When I saw your atrocity I just couldn't not comment 😜



alex.k said:


> The main difference would be a more racy feel


You say there would be no perceivable differences on the trail, while at the same time stating "more racy feel", what is that even supposed to mean 🤔


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> I joined this thread to ask if anyone, hopefully a light person (I'm @55kg) runs the Topaz on a ~40% progressive linkage frame and if there are no issues using full travel, other (tuning) issues can be mitigated with some elbow grease.
> When I saw your atrocity I just couldn't not comment 😜
> 
> 
> You say there would be no perceivable differences on the trail, while at the same time stating "more racy feel", what is that even supposed to mean 🤔


More defined stroke transitions. Bump absorption and travel usage/shaft speeds cannot be affected. Its simple to get your head around if you were with me since the beginning, otherwise I can't talk common sense into someone.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

alex.k said:


> More defined stroke transitions. Bump absorption and travel usage/shaft speeds cannot be affected. Its simple to get your head around if you were with me since the beginning, otherwise I can't talk common sense into someone.


An entire 14 posts and already being a jerk, good job.

You are arguing your changes make a difference with no support for your position, except your highly suspect subjective perceptions. How about uploading some dyno plots to show us the difference? Don't have a dyno, share your calculations showing the change in the pressure curve based on the volume of air being displaced at different shaft speeds and the before and after. 

Common sense? Common sense is simply your subjective observations as biased by your mind, experience, and knowledge. It is a shortcut used when a person does not have facts to support their position. "Common sense" is full of fallacies and incorrect conclusions. A few common ones:

The earth is flat, because that is what I see. If it were a sphere, people would fall off the bottom.
Alcohol kills viruses, therefore if I drink alcohol I won't get sick.
So keep up the good work, insulting others to ignore the shortcomings of and inability to explain your position. A true classic.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Actually 90% of you in this thread should stir the grey matter. I can't think for you.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I provided valid arguments as to why what you did doesn't make sense and even if does make any difference, it wouldn't be felt in use, all you said in reply was you were sure it would work because you felt a difference from plugging the transfer hole, and the shock now has a more defined stroke (whatever is that supposed to even mean?) while at the same time you say there is no choking involved, so what's supposed to be going on? C'mon dude, think about it for a second, or maybe you have no idea about this whole resistance to flow thing etc. and just imagine how things work without having any knowledge? In which case there is no point arguing with you anyway.
Provide some actual proof that it made any difference, even if you don't know why, and we'll believe you, or at least say that you think it works but might as well be placebo, that way you at least don't look like an arrogant asshole 😜


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Your arguments, though valid, by your tone deemed it absurd. By no choking I meant it doesn't hinder compression in any way(which it doesnt) however the shaft reaches peak travel with a linear rate of compression and instantly gets pushed back(think a syringe). I have a Fox DPS and it behaves similarly, the topaz as stock has lazier beginning and transition phases of the shaft since pressure seeps to/from the sleeve. That's pretty much it and if it is like this with no pressure then most definitely it behaves as so when inflated.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

alex.k said:


> Actually 90% of you in this thread should stir the grey matter. I can't think for you.


Spoken like a person who cannot support their position with facts or at least a proper theoretical basis. How about instead of poorly insulting people you provide us with your measured data or theoretical calculations?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Cary said:


> Spoken like a person who cannot support their position with facts or at least a proper theoretical basis. How about instead of poorly insulting people you provide us with your measured data or theoretical calculations?


Theoretical calculations are out of the scope of my post(I mean come on, that hole is tiny what calculations do you need for proof). As of now I've noticed that the shock is firmer to compress with the new ports and need to go lower by about 10-15psi for the same firmness. Thanks for listening at least.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

@piciu256 really enjoying yourself arent you. If u didnt get it once then... ugh


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Dude, you say that from making holes, which if anything, should in theory make the shock softer to compress on quick impacts, the shock became stiffer? C'mon, use some common sense...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> Dude, you say that from making holes, which if anything, should in theory make the shock softer to compress on quick impacts, the shock became stiffer? C'mon, use some common sense...


Impulse received by wheel > pressure+ rate high with mono chamber.
Impulse recieved by wheel > pressure builds slower as some air travels through the port lessening the rate building up

Large ports simulate the mono chamber.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't matter how many chambers there are, what matters is the combined volume, which you didn't change. Do you have the slightest idea of fluid dynamics? I'm not knowledgable enough to give calculations disproving your idea, but even a child would know what you're saying doesn't make the slightest sense. Are trolling us?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> What the hell are you talking about? It doesn't matter how many chambers there are, what matters is the combined volume, which you didn't change. Do you have the slightest idea of fluid dynamics? I'm not knowledgable enough to give calculations disproving your idea, but even a child would know what you're saying doesn't make the slightest sense. Are trolling us?


The whole point of this is that the hole is so small that it acts as a valve. Pressure diffuses under compression. Larger ports eliminate the narrow passage to give a combined volume in which pressure rises proportionally without diffusion happening.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Nothing rises proportionally, everything is equal, provided no choke points, but again, if anything- removing said choke point, would make the stroke softer (and that only at quick shaft speeds), not stiffer, think about it man.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> Nothing rises proportionally, everything is equal, provided no choke points, but again, if anything- removing said choke point, would make the stroke softer (and that only at quick shaft speeds), not stiffer, think about it man.


Agree to disagree is all I can say. 

Or maybe also, find a youtube video of a topaz being disassembled so you see with your eyes how it was made.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

piciu256 said:


> Nothing rises proportionally, everything is equal, provided no choke points, but again, if anything- removing said choke point, would make the stroke softer (and that only at quick shaft speeds), not stiffer, think about it man.


You are correct. If the transfer ports were a restriction point, the piston would see a smaller chamber during fast compressions instead of the full volume of the two chambers. It would function essentially like a non adjustable MRP ramp control.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Cary said:


> You are correct. If the transfer ports were a restriction point, the piston would see a smaller chamber during fast compressions instead of the full volume of the two chambers. It would function essentially like a non adjustable MRP ramp control.


And then there are dynamics.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Cary said:


> You are correct. If the transfer ports were a restriction point, the piston would see a smaller chamber *during fast compressions* instead of the full volume of the two chambers. It would function essentially like a non adjustable MRP ramp control.





alex.k said:


> And then there are dynamics.


Isn't the part in bold on Cary's post referring to "dynamics", or what you might mean by that..?

The hole between chambers is small, but so is the air volume moving between the chambers too. I haven't tested this myself, nor have I seen any dyno charts from similar tests, so technically it might be that you are correct too and the enlarging the transition hole would have effect. Technically it could be restricting air flow in an observable way, however I doubt this, as the solution is pretty much similar on all air shocks and I'm sure if this would be a real problem, it would have been addressed by now...

If it would be too small, the small hole would work as an orifice, which is (or might be) restricting airflow between air chambers. But the effect of this restricting *effect should depend on speed of the airflow* thru that hole, effectively it would be an air damper. You can go with the syringe analogy; Fill syringe with water and compress it slowly, not much resistance, then try same but fast, suddenly there is a lot more resistance. The media(water) is different than in shock(air), but fluids behave in similar enough manner to make this kind of analogy work...

Hence, if making the transition hole/cut bigger, it should restrict the air movement *less*, so with same settings/pressures otherwise, the shock movement should become *more supple*, not firm as you seem to have observed. Effect could be similar on rebound direction too, so with bigger transition hole the rebound should be faster on big movements...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

I won't elaborate further, God bless.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm sorry to hear you are one of those people who just cannot admit they were mistaken.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> I'm sorry to hear you are one of those people who just cannot admit they were mistaken.


About? Perhaps at high pressure the effect is lesser but exprimentation proves me.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Experimentation that you did not carry out. So what are we speaking here.


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## B3nnyH (Aug 17, 2016)

The ports on my vorsprung secus foot stud are like 1.5mm. At least acknowledge it was a strange idea. IDK, if you care enough about winning internet arguments you should just order a stock air sleeve from dvo and run it back to back.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

B3nnyH said:


> The ports on my vorsprung secus foot stud are like 1.5mm. At least acknowledge it was a strange idea. IDK, if you care enough about winning internet arguments you should just order a stock air sleeve from dvo and run it back to back.


It was sort of a strange idea, not interested in running back to back tests though as I've felt the difference.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

alex.k said:


> About? Perhaps at high pressure the effect is lesser but exprimentation proves me.


The greater the pressure differential the greater the resistance at a set volume flowing over a set time (increases exponentially), not lesser. You have fallen into both the confirmation bias and placebo effect traps, you might do some reading about both to learn how to identify and avoid both.

If you are in fact running 15-20 psi less, you have increased your sag and put the spring in the steeper part of the curve, which will make it stiffer on small hits. People have this happen all the time where they keep lowering pressures in search of a plusher feel and it gets harsher. If you have lowered the pressure to keep the same sag, you have decreased the total volume of the positive chamber, either by blocking off the second chamber or adding something that displaces volume.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Wow what a massive thread! I am somewhat on the hunt for a DVO Topaz T3 for my Transition Sentinel which uses a 205x62.5 rear shock. I found a couple 205x60s on PB classifieds, do these have travel reducing spacers to get to 60mm travel? Or will I have to find a 205x65 and install a 2.5mm travel reducing spacer?


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## Hawthorn (May 1, 2021)

They 60's have 5mm spacer, 62.5 a 2.5 and 65 no spacer, I bought a 60 and removed completely to use it on my privateer 161 as a 205x65, but you have to get a 2.5 to adjust yours


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

or remove the -5mm spacer and enjoy a longer stroke, given that doesn't cause any problem physically to the frame.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Hawthorn said:


> They 60's have 5mm spacer, 62.5 a 2.5 and 65 no spacer, I bought a 60 and removed completely to use it on my privateer 161 as a 205x65, but you have to get a 2.5 to adjust yours


DVO makes it so easy, now I just have to figure out if I want to run a Topaz or a Jade


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Anyone with a Topaz measure the actual travel of the shock? I bought a 205x65 and a 2.5mm travel reducer to make it a 205x62.5 shock. Well I just removed the shock to add a volume spacer and measured the travel from compressed to fully extended and it came out to nearly 67mm! Should I order an additional 5mm travel reducer to make it a legit 62mm shock??


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Nevermind turns out I didn’t measure properly


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

Did anyone else see this on the NZ or Australian agents social media… what it’s it?


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Jrp103 said:


> View attachment 1954347
> 
> Did anyone else see this on the NZ or Australian agents social media… what it’s it?


Looks like a new Topaz with new decals and a Jade X reservoir


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

A standard mount Topaz 2?


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Looks like a new Topaz with new decals and a Jade X reservoir


Yeah the shaft is massive and maybe stainless? That would solve most of the topaz issues


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## Hawthorn (May 1, 2021)

I don't think it will solve any issues but a shaft of this size on that body will make performance worse imo, only the owner can comment on how it performs really


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Jrp103 said:


> View attachment 1954347
> 
> Did anyone else see this on the NZ or Australian agents social media… what it’s it?


Launched now!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Rick Draper said:


> Launched now!


What launched? Links to a product announcement would be helpful.


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## ramoer (Jan 25, 2021)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CVoD8NhhxGO/


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Looks like its an updated T2 and better suited for bikes with leverage ratios starting at 2.4 and lower.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Looks like its an updated T2 and better suited for bikes with leverage ratios starting at 2.4 and lower.


That’s an impressive insight, what detail in particular do you think makes it suit low leverage bike?


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

JohnnyC7 said:


> That’s an impressive insight, what detail in particular do you think makes it suit low leverage bike?


Just because I read it from DVOs website lol


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

I rung DVO and it’s neither a t2 or t3. It’s a all new topaz inspired by crappy bikes that are not straight or want to snap shock shafts. As well as remedying all the niggly issues the older topaz shocks have had 

they seem really excited about it


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Just because I read it from DVOs website lol


Ah ok, that refers to the "current" Topaz, Topaz 2 is the new ones with the High volune "debonair" style cans


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

JohnnyC7 said:


> Ah ok, that refers to the "current" Topaz, Topaz 2 is the new ones with the High volune "debonair" style cans


The Topaz 2's reservoir is 90° to the air sleeve, whereas the T3 Air's reservoir is parallel to the air sleeve.
Product finder – DVO Suspension


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Hey everyone!

I have a Radon Slide Trail 8.0 (140mm rear, Horst link) with a Rockshox Deluxe Select+ shock. My issue with the bike is small bump sensitivity. I'm pretty light at 65kg/143lbs. If I set the shock at around 150-155psi, the small bump sensitivity is pretty good (still not as good as I would like), but I blow through the travel very quickly. I haven't experienced hard bottom outs yet, the frame is progressive and I also played with volume spacers, I feel like I just blow through the travel too easily. If I set it around 175psi, it's great on bigger (at least bigger for me) hits, but on everything else it's just too harsh.
A lot of people mention how plush the Topaz is. Do you guys think in my case it would help with small bump sensitivity? Or does it blow something like a Deluxe Select+ out of the water in every aspect anyways? Not sure if it's my frame that's not that sensitive (if that's even a thing) or if it's the shock.
I'd love to try coil, but unfortunately I don't think there is enough clearance.


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## 294037 (Jun 30, 2006)

slomtbr said:


> The Topaz 2's reservoir is 90° to the air sleeve, whereas the T3 Air's reservoir is parallel to the air sleeve.
> Product finder – DVO Suspension


yes that is correct, the T2 also has the larger air sleeve at the negative end which is what they are referring to with the HV description


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Okay so a few more rides on the enlarged sleeve port - now I use the last third of the travel more easily on chutes(no +ve spacers as before), and lips/steps feel a smidge more compliant. Also no strange wallowing after hitting holes while seated cruising.



Verttii said:


> Isn't the part in bold on Cary's post referring to "dynamics", or what you might mean by that..?
> 
> The hole between chambers is small, but so is the air volume moving between the chambers too. I haven't tested this myself, nor have I seen any dyno charts from similar tests, so technically it might be that you are correct too and the enlarging the transition hole would have effect. Technically it could be restricting air flow in an observable way, however I doubt this, as the solution is pretty much similar on all air shocks and I'm sure if this would be a real problem, it would have been addressed by now...
> 
> ...


As for the firmer stroke it was at slow shaft speeds because it's a fixed volume now and pressure rates are fixed while beforehand at a slow rate of compression the pressure would "ooze through" to the sleeve, releasing the pressure being built up in the canister. The shock is softer at high shaft speeds as everyone stated, which I hadn't firstly observed.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

jpjp18 said:


> i'm trying to do a rebuild on my topaz t3 but the damper end cap is stuck, doesn't even budge. There's a note on it says torque to 27mm. Would I not destroy the lower end on the stanchion that's clamped on the vice?
> 
> Perhaps I need a longer wrench?


Did you eventually get your damper end cap removed? I just tried servicing my Topaz and the seal head was stuck on so tight that my attempts to break it free torqued the eyelet so much that I can't get the hardware reinstalled into eyelet. I gave up and send it into DVO and am waiting for a reply. DVO mentioned they have seen issues with anodizing corroding and causing things to stick but I've never seen anything like this before. I was using all of my might and a wrench that was about 14" long to try and break it free but it would not budge, not even after applying a bit of heat.

This is not the first time I've had DVO parts stuck together extremely tight. The first time I serviced my DVO Onyx SC fork the OTT spring cap was totally stuck to the upper leg and I was only able to free it by using some heat, all the strength I could muster and a giant pair of 90* pliers wrapped in a piece of inner tube.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

provin1327 said:


> Did you eventually get your damper end cap removed? I just tried servicing my Topaz and the seal head was stuck on so tight that my attempts to break it free torqued the eyelet so much that I can't get the hardware reinstalled into eyelet. I gave up and send it into DVO and am waiting for a reply. DVO mentioned they have seen issues with anodizing corroding and causing things to stick but I've never seen anything like this before. I was using all of my might and a wrench that was about 14" long to try and break it free but it would not budge, not even after applying a bit of heat.
> 
> This is not the first time I've had DVO parts stuck together extremely tight. The first time I serviced my DVO Onyx SC fork the OTT spring cap was totally stuck to the upper leg and I was only able to free it by using some heat, all the strength I could muster and a giant pair of 90* pliers wrapped in a piece of inner tube.


I've stuck the the strap of a strap wrench around the shaft of my topaz before sticking that in my shaft clamp, I was worried about F-ing it up as well.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> I've stuck the the strap of a strap wrench around the shaft of my topaz before sticking that in my shaft clamp, I was worried about F-ing it up as well.


As per DVOs service guide I had the eyelet clamped in a vice and not the body of the damper shaft clamped in shaft clamps.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

provin1327 said:


> Did you eventually get your damper end cap removed? I just tried servicing my Topaz and the seal head was stuck on so tight that my attempts to break it free torqued the eyelet so much that I can't get the hardware reinstalled into eyelet. I gave up and send it into DVO and am waiting for a reply. DVO mentioned they have seen issues with anodizing corroding and causing things to stick but I've never seen anything like this before. I was using all of my might and a wrench that was about 14" long to try and break it free but it would not budge, not even after applying a bit of heat.
> 
> This is not the first time I've had DVO parts stuck together extremely tight. The first time I serviced my DVO Onyx SC fork the OTT spring cap was totally stuck to the upper leg and I was only able to free it by using some heat, all the strength I could muster and a giant pair of 90* pliers wrapped in a piece of inner tube.


Yes, it was tough thou, have a few scratch marks on the end cap after that. Luckily that doesn't affect the shock's function. I used a longer leverage tool and the shock is clamp on vise. 
No sign of corrosion at all.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Any thought by others who have a Topaz on a Banshee Rune V2? Just put one on mine, previously ran a xfusion vector coil HLR and air HLR, both of which are great. There is an issue at least for me with a coil on the Rune, the leverage curve is most progressive in first half of travel, then levels out and becomes regressive at the very end, which is more designed for an air shock, to help with breakaway at beginning of stroke and lessen extreme ramp-up at the end. Because of that with the linear coil, there was occasional midstroke harshness; with the vector air's "wallowy-ness" that was about exactly cancelled out for an overall smooth stroke. However I mostly ran the vector coil because of my weight (215#) so the small bump sensitivity was still really good and the mid-stroke spiking only came up in certain situations-it would get hung up a little on chunk of a certain size. Replacing the vector air with the Topaz because of the self-serviceability . Took it for one ride on a steep chunky DH but with no big drops or g-outs. So far, Im very impressed. The huge neg spring makes beginning stroke unreal, quite comparable to coil. Its seems a little more supportive in mid stroke than the vector air, but not enough to cause the mid-stroke spiking, this thing seems to smooth out the chunk quite well. At 230 pSI, 197 in bladder, and no volume spacers anywhere, I had 30 % sag and used 78% of travel on thatt trail, which seemed to leave about the right amount for bigger hits and drops. On the climb back up, it didnt bob much, (the rune is a great climber due to high anti-squat). So I dont yet feel the need to add volume spacers to either chamber. Maaaybe one in positive... Does all this sound about right?


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

Anyone know if the Topaz will fit on a 2021 giant trance x 29? 
I'm considering upgrading my shock, the size is available 185x55 trunnion mount.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

Notthatbryan said:


> Anyone know if the Topaz will fit on a 2021 giant trance x 29?
> I'm considering upgrading my shock, the size is available 185x55 trunnion mount.


yip


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

Jrp103 said:


> yip


Awesome, thanks.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Longer ride today on 3 chunky descents with my Topaz on Banshee Rune V2. i weigh about 215-220 geared up. Eventually settled on bumping the PSI to 235 in main and 199 in bladder. Felt fantastic. However, one trail has a drop hit with some speed to a transition, maybe 3-4' down and 7' out. Felt a bit harsh on landing, tire buzzed my butt. Didnt completely bottom out, but used 90% of its travel. Previous shock (Xfusion Vector HLR) never felt harsh there, but it has external BO control which I ran cranked up-used about 86% on that. Im wondering if i should add one band to the positive, or just not worrry about it since i dont do a lot of drops-but want it to feel good when i do. It wouldnt firm up the first half of travel at all, right? dont want to sacrifice the plushness much there. If I do do I still aim for 30%sag and how much less psi? Air shocks that are "wallowy" around 30-50% of the stroke actually work well on the Rune because its leverage curve is harshest there-with coil there was always a little mid-stroke harshness. Would adding a band make it more "wallowy" there or less? Am I making any sense?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

dwyooaj said:


> Longer ride today on 3 chunky descents with my Topaz on Banshee Rune V2. i weigh about 215-220 geared up. Eventually settled on bumping the PSI to 235 in main and 199 in bladder. Felt fantastic. However, one trail has a drop hit with some speed to a transition, maybe 3-4' down and 7' out. Felt a bit harsh on landing, tire buzzed my butt. Didnt completely bottom out, but used 90% of its travel. Previous shock (Xfusion Vector HLR) never felt harsh there, but it has external BO control which I ran cranked up-used about 86% on that. Im wondering if i should add one band to the positive, or just not worrry about it since i dont do a lot of drops-but want it to feel good when i do. It wouldnt firm up the first half of travel at all, right? dont want to sacrifice the plushness much there. If I do do I still aim for 30%sag and how much less psi? Air shocks that are "wallowy" around 30-50% of the stroke actually work well on the Rune because its leverage curve is harshest there-with coil there was always a little mid-stroke harshness. Would adding a band make it more "wallowy" there or less? Am I making any sense?


I would doble check that the two shocks have the exact lengths open and closed (with a ruler).

Other than that, a single band will probably solve it. You should not feel the initial stroke harsher. Most likely also keep the same PSI for sag.
It's also easy to test, adding band on this shock is pretty easy. I think I did it with the shock on the bike, but it's been a while so not 100%. Go for a test ride, that's the only way to really tell.

At your weight I would also consider revalving.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

CrozCountry said:


> I would doble check that the two shocks have the exact lengths open and closed (with a ruler).
> 
> Other than that, a single band will probably solve it. You should not feel the initial stroke harsher. Most likely also keep the same PSI for sag.
> It's also easy to test, adding band on this shock is pretty easy. I think I did it with the shock on the bike, but it's been a while so not 100%. Go for a test ride, that's the only way to really tell.
> ...


Thanks! just checked they are same length. Wonder if slightly thicker oil would have the same effect as revalving. Though i also have no problem tearing the shock apart to add shims if necessary.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

What does the compression switch adjust exactly on this shock? Both high and low speed compression? If I want to ride a trail with bigger jumps and drops, instead of adjusting air pressure and/or the bladder pressure, could I just flick the switch to the middle setting for example so I don't blow through the travel that fast? Is it possible to tune the middle mode for example without affecting the open mode? I don't really need/want a climb switch, I basically never use it on my current RS shock.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

alex.k said:


> Expansion of the positive canister-to-sleeve port to four adjacent slits from the tiny hole that massive pressure had to flow through in both directions.
> 
> View attachment 1951903
> 
> ...


To those few that stated that the rear wheel seems to skip over dips that come after bumps as if the HSR isn't fast enough, this mod mostly fixes the issue. 
If you are to do this then use a thin angle grinder or dremmel and don't go below the lip that the hole sits on as that's the piston seal limit(don't use a drill bit). Afterwards sand the inside where the slits are. You then might want to add positive spacers as the effective positive volume has been increased.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Seeking tuning advice from those familiar with the DVO Topaz shock:
I bought a gently used Ripmo AF frame and shock last week, built it with my own parts, and got some real trail time today. 

I'm 165# ride weight. 
I set it up per the DVO and Ibis Ripmo set up guide-
14mm (27.5% per ibis) sag- 175 psi in the shock, 180 in the IFP bladder.
4 clicks of rebound.
Compression lever to "open"
There is 2 bands on the positive side, one on the negative side.
The shock feels really great; like full on amaze-balls on general trail riding with the wheels on the ground and hits that are like shoe-box size or less. 

So, here's the issue- I launched some waist-high hucks to flat and smashed some pretty big hits- enough to use probably 160 of my 170mm Fox 36, and STILL only used like 60% of the shock travel. It feels great- but ramps too quickly to get into the deep end of the stroke.
The DVO guide says to add 1-2 bands to the negative chamber. The frame/shock didn't come with any extras, and I don't have a problem buying some of these from DVO, but before I do, is there any other tuning that I need to do before I spend the $15 on something I might not need?


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

alex.k said:


> To those few that stated that the rear wheel seems to skip over dips that come after bumps as if the HSR isn't fast enough, this mod mostly fixes the issue. [We created a defined stroke transition where as before the force of the pressure at rebound after a hit would not act immediately as pressure would ooze to the sleeve]
> If you are to do this then use a thin angle grinder or dremmel and don't go below the lip that the hole sits on as that's the piston seal limit(don't use a drill bit). Sand the inside where the slits are afterwards. You then might want to add positive spacers as the effective positive volume has been increased.


Are you from DVO? Is this something I can ask for when I send the shock to service at DVO?


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Impetus said:


> Seeking tuning advice from those familiar with the DVO Topaz shock:
> I bought a gently used Ripmo AF frame and shock last week, built it with my own parts, and got some real trail time today.
> 
> I'm 165# ride weight.
> ...



From my understanding of topaz
*having more sag - will use more travel, can try to increase bladder psi by 1-3 psi to bring it but take note bladder changes the overall curve range

*reducing positive band - probably will retain the riding feel of the trail but changes on the ramp up on big compression

Strangely, i have a friend who have the same bike with 2 spacer around the same sag as you, he have no problem using full travel on huck to flat thou.
Maybe can try check is there any grease blocking the negative hole in the can.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Impetus said:


> Seeking tuning advice from those familiar with the DVO Topaz shock:
> I bought a gently used Ripmo AF frame and shock last week, built it with my own parts, and got some real trail time today.
> 
> I'm 165# ride weight.
> ...


It's possible that the fork is just softer than it needs to be. If you follow the ibis setup guide for the fork they suggest 28-32% sag which I think is way too much, I usually start around 20% sag on the fork and adjust pressure from there.
If your fork setup is good I'd recommend adjusting pressure first before playing with spacers, and adding or removing negative spacers won't make a big difference for what you're experiencing.
Remember it's always possible you just landed nose heavy, and also sag isn't a had and fast rule since it's not repeatable between different riders, so your setup could already be fine. Your shock settings seem reasonable to me other than the rebound being a bit slow but that wouldn't affect your specific problem.


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

Impetus said:


> Seeking tuning advice from those familiar with the DVO Topaz shock:
> I bought a gently used Ripmo AF frame and shock last week, built it with my own parts, and got some real trail time today.
> 
> I'm 165# ride weight.
> ...


You should measure the part of the shock shaft exposed until the green or-ing and not all the exposed shock shaft,it should be 55mm,and btw put the spacer on the negative chamber on the positive and give it a gowith the same pressure,I think it's more plusher and more bottomless,better traction too.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

This whole tuning method that DVO uses is new to me, I've been riding FOX suspension for years.
Im as much trying to learn what changing one variable does to the shock as much as trying to tune it.
What does the 'bladder' pressure do, exactly; analgous to the standard terms of high-speed and low speed rebound and compression, or spring rate curves?

I kinda get that the volume bands change the effective spring curve by changing volume inside their respective chambers.
Maybe I'm looking for a too-easy fix hoping someone will tell me "yeah you need to <do this> and it'll change <this behavior>, which is kinda how I got my head around Fox suspension tuning.

To address the replies, and hoping to keep learning how the Topaz works:


jpjp18 said:


> From my understanding of topaz
> *having more sag - will use more travel, can try to increase bladder psi by 1-3 psi to bring it but take note bladder changes the overall curve range
> 
> *reducing positive band - probably will retain the riding feel of the trail but changes on the ramp up on big compression
> ...


I don't want _more_ sag, really for any reason. It messes with the geometry (especially bb height- low is NOT GOOD in AZ rocks), and isn't how ibis recommends the bike being set up. They were pretty specific that the shock should be set at 14mm of sag on a 55mm stroke.

You say "2 spacer around the same sag"... is that spacers in the positive, or negative side? How many are in the other chamber?



WhatsUpcountry said:


> It's possible that the fork is just softer than it needs to be. If you follow the ibis setup guide for the fork they suggest 28-32% sag which I think is way too much, I usually start around 20% sag on the fork and adjust pressure from there.
> If your fork setup is good I'd recommend adjusting pressure first before playing with spacers, and adding or removing negative spacers won't make a big difference for what you're experiencing.
> Remember it's always possible you just landed nose heavy, and also sag isn't a had and fast rule since it's not repeatable between different riders, so your setup could already be fine. Your shock settings seem reasonable to me other than the rebound being a bit slow but that wouldn't affect your specific problem.


I suppose anything is possible, but It's the same Fox 36 I've been riding and racing enduro for 2 years, with a DSD RUNT, and has felt pretty dialed. The bikes are very similar in HTA and such, so I don't think the fork setup needs to be really fiddled with.

I agree one instance of imbalanced travel is not much of a data point, but they are trails that i ride at least once weekly, and it was a 20 mile ride in total, and I selected that combo of trails because it had some big chunk (suitcase size rocks, as well as some knee-to-waist-high drops. Both the guys I was riding with used the near full travel on their bikes, as was expected, we ride these trails a lot. I mean, the shock felt good, but if I'm using only 60% of the travel I have on some pretty big compression events, there's room for improvement.




bullit43 said:


> You should measure the part of the shock shaft exposed until the green or-ing and not all the exposed shock shaft,it should be 55mm,and btw put the spacer on the negative chamber on the positive and give it a gowith the same pressure,I think it's more plusher and more bottomless,better traction too.


I actually measured the "used" part of the stanchion- I pushed the o-ring 41mm away from the seal (bike non weighted)
Your recommendation of moving a band from negative to positive is opposite from the setup guide from DVO- they actually say if you cant use full travel, to not touch the positive, and ADD a band or two to the negative side.
I guess I'm maybe misunderstanding how these bands work?


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## bullit43 (Dec 29, 2010)

Impetus said:


> This whole tuning method that DVO uses is new to me, I've been riding FOX suspension for years.
> Im as much trying to learn what changing one variable does to the shock as much as trying to tune it.
> What does the 'bladder' pressure do, exactly; analgous to the standard terms of high-speed and low speed rebound and compression, or spring rate curves?
> 
> ...


The only setting I can use from Ibis is the sag,if I use the air pressure they say the bike bottoms everywhere ,so I figure the sag and air pressure for that sag and played with the spacers so it wouldn't bottom out (3 spacer on the positive chamber)


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## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

Remove a positive chamber volume spacer.


Impetus said:


> Seeking tuning advice from those familiar with the DVO Topaz shock:
> I bought a gently used Ripmo AF frame and shock last week, built it with my own parts, and got some real trail time today.
> 
> I'm 165# ride weight.
> ...


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

he's running 3 positive band and 170psi.
in that case of not changing sag, does the normal trail riding feel bit harsh? if it does can drop bit on bladder.
if you like the overall feel now, guess you can remove 1 more positive spacer as that's more for the ramp up.
I do think 2 positive band is quite common, some even go up to 3. I myself use 4 positive band and none on negative but I'm on different bike.

Ya DVO is somewhat more simplify in terms of tuning to Fox, I also came from Fox X2.
I use Positive band control bottom out and negative for LSC. Frankly I use bladder to control more on my LSC which also changes a little bit of the bottom out that's fine for me.

Another note, even 1-2psi changes on bladder can be felt on the overall feel of the shock. This is where a digital shock pump comes into play.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Impetus said:


> This whole tuning method that DVO uses is new to me, I've been riding FOX suspension for years.
> Im as much trying to learn what changing one variable does to the shock as much as trying to tune it.
> What does the 'bladder' pressure do, exactly; analgous to the standard terms of high-speed and low speed rebound and compression, or spring rate curves?
> 
> ...


I could be wrong here, but if you want a higher ride height and use more travel you should probably take all the spacers out and run higher pressure. You’ll probably get good mid stroke support, should be supple off the top, and you won’t hit a hard ramp deeper in travel.

If you do need spacers for whatever reason, shoot me a PM and I’ll send some over.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Impetus, if it were me, I'd pull all the volume spacers out, and start fresh.

Adjust spring pressure so it feels how you want on like 80% of your riding. Add positive volume spacers if you are bottoming out too easily on drops/hard impacts. Add negative spacers if you need to raise BB height but have good mid stroke/bottom out.

I'd opt for more pressure and removing positive spacers over putting in a negative chamber spacer though.

As for bladder pressure... Well, the Topaz seems to lose that pressure often so you'll likely get a chance to play with it. I'd just set it to 180 for now though and not try to use it for tuning.

A straight drop to flat for me on the Topaz with a different frame usually about 4-5' hits full travel. 2' hits about 90%.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

To sum up...

Bands in positive chamber:

Only affects the end of the stroke, so bottom out adjustment
If shock is otherwise good but doesn't use travel, remove band(s) on positive chamber
If shock is bottoming out too easily, add band(s) on positive chamber

Bands in negative chamber:

Affects beginning & partially mid-stroke
Same pressure with negative bands added results in slightly smaller sag and more "mid stroke support"
Add bands to negative chamber and reduce air pressure slightly to get same sag and more "mid stroke support"
Remove negative bands to get plusher initial part of the stroke

Bladder pressure:

Mainly depends on rider weight, main function is to prevent cavitation
Affects all damping, more pressure = more damping, but the effect is most noticeable on small bump compliance(low speed damping)
Too high bladder pressure = harshness
Too low bladder pressure = very plush, but comes with risk of cavitation (doesn't immediately ruin the shock, but can cause problems in long run if ran with too low bladder pressures)
Easy to experiment on, try both ends (170psi and 200psi) first to feel out the difference on short patch of trail, then set as per rider weight and adjust up pr slightly down as preferred


So @Impetus , if you don't get as much travel out as you would like on bigger hits, I'd first remove positive spacer(s), if there are any... 

@mike156 , if you are losing bladder pressure fast, maybe replacing the bladder with new one would solve the problem, if you haven't tried this already?

I had my Topaz losing bladder pressure fast and with increasing pace, changing the oil to fresh and regreasing the old seals, valve core & bladder did not help much with the disappearing bladder pressures, but then another oil refresh with new bladder solved that one. The old bladder did not have any visual clues of problems, but might be that it was just "worn out" and leaking air out... The bladder pressure does leak a bit also with the fresh bladder(~5psi per week-ish), but not nearly as fast as with the old one(something like 10psi per day)...


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

@Verttii that is very succinct and helpful. thank you. 
I received the shock with 2 positive and 1 negative band. I'm going to try to do some suspension 'setup' hill repeats this week, having removed all 3 bands, and will add them back in one at a time, keeping in mind your info on the effects of positive vs negative. I'm hoping having 3 bands to work with will be sufficient.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Verttii said:


> Bladder pressure:
> 
> but the effect is *most noticeable on small bump compliance*


Equally noticeable is that it provides cushioning on landings. At the higher range your weight will be supported more as the bike folds and travel will be used less quickly.
Also pedalling forces are very much influenced.

Control is the name of the game with the Topaz. No IFP, thick shims(hard valves) and adding reservoir pressure.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

alex.k said:


> 170-5psi is for 65-72kg
> 175-180 for 72-78kg
> 180-5 for 78-84kg
> 185-190 for 84-89kg
> 190-5 for 89-94kg


Here's the bladder pressure chart I compiled a while back.


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## guim (May 2, 2006)

Hi all! For those who have rebuilt the shock, what bleed fitting have you used? I've see people say a RockShox Charger bleed fitting works well, or the one for the Reverb works too (for the post, not the lever I guess?) but I can't find a definitive statement on this. I haven't found a Charger bleed fitting anywhere either. Thanks for any help!


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

For me surprisingly the Formula Cura one worked fine, the RS Reverb is confirmed to fit exactly.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

CrozCountry said:


> Are you from DVO? Is this something I can ask for when I send the shock to service at DVO?


Nah I ain't but there were a few issues stated by users that needed to be addressed. And nope.

I have no clear verdict on this but it feels more neutral and wallowing when seated is gone now.


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## guim (May 2, 2006)

Thanks Alex! I'll order one. It's for a Jade X but I assume they use the same fitting to bleed. Cheers!


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

guim said:


> Thanks Alex! I'll order one. It's for a Jade X but I assume they use the same fitting to bleed. Cheers!


They seem to be the same
No worries _clinks maple syrup bottles_


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

overlooked is that the topaz likely has a deeper sag point than the shock it is replacing because of the large negative chamber (not physically large) due to its lower equalization position in the shock body.

the larger neg chamber is what provides that soft initial feel. however it drops the bikes ride height in the suspension. you give up some travel to get the soft innitial feel.

you then are trying to pedal your bike at a different physical point in the linkage which is not optimal for pedalling. 


eg. ibis says set sag to 14mm but you get 17mm at the spring rate you like. that 3mm diff is huge on the bb ride height and suspension position in the linkage curve. so you try chasing changing the shock negative volume to minimally offset the ride height. wrong!

i believe that after changing the shock, a rider should install offset bushings and use them to achieve the correct linkage position for the frame design.

then and only then you start to play with bands, bladder pressure and finally shim stack adjustments.

i did and it worked out awesome!


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Fuse6F said:


> overlooked is that the topaz likely has a deeper sag point than the shock it is replacing because of the large negative chamber (not physically large) due to its lower equalization position in the shock body.
> 
> the larger neg chamber is what provides that soft initial feel. however it drops the bikes ride height in the suspension. you give up some travel to get the soft innitial feel.
> 
> ...


I'm curious why you would do this instead of just adding more air pressure to bring the BB up


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

alex.k said:


> *Equally* noticeable is that it provides cushioning on landings. At the higher range your weight will be supported more as the bike folds and travel will be used less quickly.
> Also pedalling forces are very much influenced.


Well, kind of no, in my opinion. Generally on an average ride there are a lot more small bumps than "landings", so you get much easier reference from that. But yes, most likely landings will be affected too, but probably not that easy to distinguish, as there tends to be less repetition. But anyway, this starts to be on the splitting hairs department...
Pedalling is indeed slightly affected too, but based on personal experience, difference is not that as clear(as with small bumps). This is probably also affected by what bike/linkage is in question, as well as pedalling style...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Verttii said:


> Well, kind of no, in my opinion. Generally on an average ride there are a lot more small bumps than "landings", so you get much easier reference from that. But yes, most likely landings will be affected too, but probably not that easy to distinguish, as there tends to be less repetition. But anyway, this starts to be on the splitting hairs department...
> Pedalling is indeed slightly affected too, but based on personal experience, difference is not that as clear(as with small bumps). This is probably also affected by what bike/linkage is in question, as well as pedalling style...


To be more definite I did testing by hopping off of an off-camber pitch of land onto flat road while charging hard, at different pressures, about 2' into the air and 5.5' forward. A variation of 5psi was always apparent on the cushioning; and note the word here, 'cushioning', as that's what it does. Now for trails where you aren't throwing your weight around it won't be drastic I agree but I always have the hard riders in mind.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> I'm curious why you would do this instead of just adding more air pressure to bring the BB up


Pick the perfect spring rate w no spacers. In either pos or neg chamber. 

Add your spacers to pos chamber for the big hits. No bottoming, okay great!

Why reduce the neg. That just takes the suppleness away.

Now if you pedal, you might find the bb is 10mm or more lower than stock on the bike. The crispness isnt there and it makes it suck to climb. Pop in the offset bushings to restore that factory designed ride height and back comes the poppy pedal feeling. Shock stays supple and smooth. 

adding air is just wrong all day long


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Fuse6F said:


> Pick the perfect spring rate w no spacers. In either pos or neg chamber.
> 
> Add your spacers to pos chamber for the big hits. No bottoming, okay great!
> 
> ...


What bike are you on? the antisquat on the ripmo is consistently high so pedaling forces don't change much around sag. I don't like soft progressive springs that blow through travel to easily from pumping and pushing the bike and then have no travel left for 
bumps. Seems like you'd rather have a longer travel bike if you want a high starting BB and soft spring rate.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

Nope. The dvo on my bike has a lower sag position than the stock shock. So the linkage is more compressed. Sag is static ride height with your weight on the bike. But matching that sag point to best pedalling position in the linkage is important. As soon as you change shocks you have to be aware of what your changing

i have a 2018 stumpjumper and that thing becomes a pogo stick if it sets up low in the suspension. Even setting the shock at best pedalling position is still affected by the dvo as it is supple. It wants to move and react to small forces at that point. Not a good thing deep in the stroke of the linkage.

if you think the topaz is too soft off the top then you can add bands to reduce this effect by minimizing the neg chamber volume. But it doesnt really affect where the shock sits at sag.

some people just crank up the pressure.

I know my shock sits topped out when im not sitting on the bike. So more air will raise the rear end. But there is a cost to it. Higher spring rate than you might want. That reduces the average travel used everywhere all the time.

i just chose to use more suspension stroke all the time but to also set the physical shock position to keep the linkage at where best pedalling is found.

i believe i have offset the position of the shock by 3.5mm.

assuming 100% linear suspension curve 135/48mm is 2.81 x 3.5 = 9.8mm higher in rear ride height.

i doubt anyone wants their new fork to setup 10mm lower after a swap.

so they would install a offset lower crown bushing. Rather than increasing the air pressure to bring the front up and then never use the last 25mm of fork travel

ymmv

this worked for me and made a huge change in bike performance on simple climbs such as a fire road.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Fuse6F said:


> it doesnt really affect where the shock sits at sag.


It doesn't in my experience either but when pedalling hard the shock is less active by adding a neg spacer and it doesn't reduce suppleness that much, at two spacers it becomes a bit wooden, one won't hurt the fun.
Glad that you found a remedy for your setup. I overshocked my bike and the sag point isn't deeper than stock but the dynamic sag is nearer.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Fuse6F said:


> Nope. The dvo on my bike has a lower sag position than the stock shock. So the linkage is more compressed. Sag is static ride height with your weight on the bike. But matching that sag point to best pedalling position in the linkage is important. As soon as you change shocks you have to be aware of what your changing
> 
> i have a 2018 stumpjumper and that thing becomes a pogo stick if it sets up low in the suspension. Even setting the shock at best pedalling position is still affected by the dvo as it is supple. It wants to move and react to small forces at that point. Not a good thing deep in the stroke of the linkage.
> 
> ...


different strokes for different folks I guess, I've never had trouble using travel on a trail bike with a reasonable sag #.


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## Fuse6F (Jul 5, 2017)

me either


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Adodero said:


> Anyone else finding the Topaz HSR to be a bit overdamped and have any suggested changes?





alex.k said:


> Expansion of the positive canister-to-sleeve port to four adjacent slits from the tiny hole that massive pressure had to flow through in both directions.
> 
> View attachment 1951903
> 
> ...


I recommend doing this^ if you're still finding it to be an issue, just go about it carefully, staying on the lip where the hole was. No drill bits and sand the inside later.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> I recommend doing this^ if you're still finding it to be an issue, just go about it carefully, staying on the lip where the hole was. No drill bits and sand the inside later.


I dunno, that looks and seems pretty sketchy. Tall order asking folks to dremel their $500 shocks. Can someone from DVO please comment on this. Warranty voider for sure at least.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

dwyooaj said:


> I dunno, that looks and seems pretty sketchy. Tall order asking folks to dremel their $500 shocks. Can someone from DVO please comment on this. Warranty voider for sure at least.


I don't work for DVO but don't do that.
IIRC his theory was that the flow from the main chamber got choked going through the port to the sleeve. Even if that is in fact a problem, taking a Dremel to the air can is not the solution.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> I dunno, that looks and seems pretty sketchy. Tall order asking folks to dremel their $500 shocks. Can someone from DVO please comment on this. Warranty voider for sure at least.


Lousy engineering means coarse solutions. In all realness idk if you'd wanna do it but use your own understanding.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

In their defence though, 'If you wanted a Fox you should have bought a Fox'


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

$40 is $40


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

slomtbr said:


> $40 is $40
> View attachment 1968285


Gotta love DVO


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

slomtbr said:


> $40 is $40
> View attachment 1968285


Ha, I see, one is only out $40 if it doesnt work, I shoulda thought of that. Id still love to know from someone at DVO if the stock size of those holes is actually a problem and if dremeling them like alex.k showed would be structurally sound


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Ummm guys. Bladder pressure doesn't impact your damping at all until it's so low you're cavitating.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Ummm guys. Bladder pressure doesn't impact your damping at all until it's so low you're cavitating.


You keen saying that. show us then


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jrp103 said:


> You keen saying that. show us then


Let me start with: There is absolutely nothing in the damper that will respond to a change in static oil pressure.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

OK @Dougal , in a more tatctful manner, because I'm interested in understanding:

What DOES the bladder pressure do, and why is it adjustable? You seem to be alluding to this 'feature' of the Topaz having very little, if any effect on the shock performance.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Damping comes from the difference in pressure across a valve, not the absolute pressure of the system.
the difference in pressure across a valve is determined by how fast the oil is flowing through the valve.
The only reason we have to pressure the system is to prevent cavitation.
The bladder pressure as a tuning feature is kinda silly IMO, but since technically the bladder acts as a secondary positive air chamber you can add or decrease pressure in it and it will raise or lower the overall spring curve, similar to preloading a coil spring.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jrp103 said:


> I said show us smart arse. You talk so much rubbish, back it up.


You want me to prove something doesn't happen huh? Even though there is no physical way it can possibly happen and it never does happen.



Impetus said:


> OK @Dougal , in a more tatctful manner, because I'm interested in understanding:
> 
> What DOES the bladder pressure do, and why is it adjustable? You seem to be alluding to this 'feature' of the Topaz having very little, if any effect on the shock performance.


Bladder pressure does exactly what the IFP pressure does in other shocks. It keeps seals pinned and provides the static pressure required to return oil through valves and prevent cavitation. It has zero impact on damping but a small impact on spring-rate and extension force.



WhatsUpcountry said:


> Damping comes from the difference in pressure across a valve, not the absolute pressure of the system.
> the difference in pressure across a valve is determined by how fast the oil is flowing through the valve.
> The only reason we have to pressure the system is to prevent cavitation.
> The bladder pressure as a tuning feature is kinda silly IMO, but since technically the bladder acts as a secondary positive air chamber you can add or decrease pressure in it and it will raise or lower the overall spring curve, similar to preloading a coil spring.


This is a good summary^


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Ummm guys. Bladder pressure doesn't impact your damping at all until it's so low you're cavitating.


Oh my ... here he goes again! Every few months he absolutely must repeat himself! Don't you have anything better to do? And you still have not rode the shock, correct?


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Davide said:


> Oh my ... here he goes again! Every few months he absolutely must repeat himself! Don't you have anything better to do? And you still have not rode the shock, correct?


If you call DVO, they'll tell you the same thing.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davide said:


> Oh my ... here he goes again! Every few months he absolutely must repeat himself! Don't you have anything better to do? And you still have not rode the shock, correct?


That's right I haven't ridden a Topaz. But my shock dyno has.

Do you think riding a part magically makes you understand the internals or something?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Dougal said:


> That's right I haven't ridden a Topaz. But my shock dyno has ...


🐙 Good for your dyno, at least she is having fun! 🐙 But ride your bike too! Dyno's are notoriously sketchy in their opinions. That's why pros, and everybody actually, do test their bikes on a trail.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Dougal said:


> That's right I haven't ridden a Topaz. But my shock dyno has.


Do you @Dougal by the way happen to have tested, with or without dyno, if this "pressure equalisation hole size" on air shock inner sleeve might have some measurable effect on the shock behaviour? 

This was recently debated here, and I guess the logic is that if the (too) small hole on the Topaz(or any other air shock, AFAIK) would restrict airflow between inner & outer air sleeve, it would act as an additional "air damper" on high displacement changes. Us mere mortals often don't have dyno or other measurement devices available, so would be interesting to see if such(increasing the hole size) has or could have some significant, measurable effect...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> That's right I haven't ridden a Topaz. But my shock dyno has.
> 
> Do you think riding a part magically makes you understand the internals or something?





Impetus said:


> What DOES the bladder pressure do, and why is it adjustable? You seem to be alluding to this 'feature' of the Topaz having very little, if any effect on the shock performance.


We didn't say ressy pressure affected damping.
A dyno(or just about any dyno) isn't able to replicate mere impulse, just forces. You might register a damping profile with it where the ressy pressure doesn't affect the outline but it will be apparent even more dynamically. I don't really like graphs so to overcome this subtlety imagine a really fast compression with your weight suddenly deposited on the pedals and try to picture the oil being displaced as the shaft hind the piston fills the oil cavity and that a greater bladder pressure resists this displacement; valves act as before,.. and slower rate of compression.
@Impetus So in a vague conclusion, the bladder adjust feature caters to heavy riders, just as advertised.



Verttii said:


> Do you @Dougal by the way happen to have tested, with or without dyno, if this "pressure equalisation hole size" on air shock inner sleeve might have some measurable effect on the shock behaviour?
> 
> This was recently debated here, and I guess the logic is that if the (too) small hole on the Topaz(or any other air shock, AFAIK) would restrict airflow between inner & outer air sleeve, it would act as an additional "air damper" on high displacement changes. Us mere mortals often don't have dyno or other measurement devices available, so would be interesting to see if such(increasing the hole size) has or could have some significant, measurable effect...


My fellow European, Again, Please... If you have the shock, Take the sleeve halfway off, Then, cycle the shock a few times with your finger over the hole, Then do it again with the sleeve back on. The logic is that it has to keep resistance between you and the ground.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Make your points with out making personal attacks on other users please.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

alex.k said:


> We didn't say ressy pressure affected damping


From Verttii: [bladder pressure] "Affects all damping, more pressure = more damping"

Not sure why you guys are even continuing to argue this or bring up a dyno...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> From Verttii: [bladder pressure] "Affects all damping, more pressure = more damping"
> 
> Not sure why you guys are even continuing to argue this or bring up a dyno...


It dampens in the sense that it controls movement but it's simply restrictive damping rather than guided. Just my two cents. That technicality doesn't really bother me as long as we've established that it's not a tuning feature.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> We didn't say ressy pressure affected damping.
> A dyno(or just about any dyno) isn't able to replicate mere impulse, just forces. You might register a damping profile with it where the ressy pressure doesn't affect the outline but it will be apparent even more dynamically. I don't really like graphs so to overcome this subtlety imagine a really fast compression with your weight suddenly deposited on the pedals and try to picture the oil being displaced as the shaft hind the piston fills the oil cavity and that a greater bladder pressure resists this; valves act as before,.. and slower rate of compression.
> So in a vague conclusion, the bladder adjust feature caters to heavy riders, just as advertised.


No. That is not how damping works. There is nothing in a damper like this* that responds to more static pressure.
Bladder pressure is preload and a small effect on spring rate only.

I have had to run 300psi in Topaz bladders to stop cavitation (and foaming) under hard riders.

*Manitou SPV, Manitou CID, Fox Boost-valve and Curnutt dampers did contain pneumatic valves which respond to static pressure. None of these are in production for MTB.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Verttii said:


> Do you @Dougal by the way happen to have tested, with or without dyno, if this "pressure equalisation hole size" on air shock inner sleeve might have some measurable effect on the shock behaviour?
> 
> This was recently debated here, and I guess the logic is that if the (too) small hole on the Topaz(or any other air shock, AFAIK) would restrict airflow between inner & outer air sleeve, it would act as an additional "air damper" on high displacement changes. Us mere mortals often don't have dyno or other measurement devices available, so would be interesting to see if such(increasing the hole size) has or could have some significant, measurable effect...


I don't have any easy way to test the high speed response of air springs. My spring-rate tester is slow. I can run air springs on my dyno but it requires post processing to turn a damper run of an air spring to a series of air spring curves. Air springs are speed sensitive where the faster you compress them the stiffer they get. This is due to the air heating during compression. Compress them slowly and the lose heat and stay at ambient with corresponding lower spring-rates.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> No. That is not how damping works. There is nothing in a damper like this* that responds to more static pressure.
> *Bladder pressure is preload and a small effect on spring rate only.*
> 
> I have had to run 300psi in Topaz bladders to stop cavitation (and foaming) under hard riders.
> ...


Think again. 



2020 video^. In contrast Ronnie did mention before that it's not for tuning.

Edit: I didn't even talk about damping...
The role of the reservoir pressure was described as something separate


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Think again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're talking about the preload effect the bladder pressure has. It is not damping.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> They're talking about the preload effect the bladder pressure has. It is not damping.


Hahaha I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS DAMPING
And preload on a coil fades away, and alters the spring, the resistance in the reservoir is constant(increasing through compression) and controls the flow rate of oil _displaced behind the piston and thus gives a slower shaft speed when increased_.

Either way you really have to ride the shock and then come to us.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Hahaha I DIDN'T SAY IT WAS DAMPING xD
> And preload on a coil fades away, and alters the airspring, the resistance in the reservoir is constant(increasing through compression) and controls the oil flow rate.


Preload from an IFP or bladder is not coil spring preload. It acts as an almost constant extension force.

It does not and cannot control the oil flow rate. The oil flow rate is damping and that is controlled by the shim stacks and bleeds.



alex.k said:


> Either way you really have to ride the shock and then come to us.


Out of all the shocks I have ridden, none of them have violated the laws of physics and behaved in ways it cannot. Why do you think this one is special?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Preload from an IFP or bladder is not coil spring preload. It acts as an almost constant extension force.
> 
> It does not and cannot control the oil flow rate. The oil flow rate is damping and that is controlled by the shim stacks and bleeds.
> 
> ...


Oil displacement rate* then to correct myself, happening behind the piston. The prior would be damping as everyone knows.

It's special because both the front of the bike and the rear has a specific job to do. At the rear there has to be chassis control foremost since we're riding bicycles and not 200kilo+ motorized machines and the topaz manages just this.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Do you people have ZERO imagination?
Pardon the back and forth, I know you're an industry vet so I agree with the terms you try to emphasize but picturing the system in operation isn't necessarily complicated for anyone. Same for the air sleeve ports.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Oil displacement rate* then to correct myself, happening behind the piston. The prior would be damping as everyone knows.
> 
> It's special because both the front of the bike and the rear has a specific job to do. At the rear there has to be chassis control foremost since we're riding bicycles and not 200kilo+ motorized machines and the topaz manages just this.





alex.k said:


> Do you people have ZERO imagination?
> Pardon the back and forth, I know you're an industry vet so I agree with the terms you try to emphasize but picturing the system in operation isn't necessarily complicated for anyone.


Unfortunately nothing works the way you think it does.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Then stock some ThruShaft shocks on your site so I can order if so.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Guys sthap


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

HollyBoni said:


> Guys sthap


Kk


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

On a side note if you want a near full lockout reduce the neg chamber completely using custom spacers after shimming the compression adjust.
I also spoke with DVO and they told me they were making a new needle for the port controlled by the T3 switch that firms it up even more, I was told you can contact them for shipment.


----------



## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Unfortunately nothing works the way you think it does.


🍿🍿


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

410sprint said:


> 🍿🍿


I got his point. He's forgetting about the undergoing e̶p̶i̶d̶e̶m̶i̶c̶ pandemic.


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Dougal said:


> ...
> Bladder pressure is preload and a small effect on spring rate only.
> 
> ...


Here we go, the cinch in the armor. After months of waisting everybody's time by claiming that bladder pressure has no effect whatever, now it turns out it has an effect on spring rate. Might be that the reason that literally hundreds of Topaz users fine tune their shock by adjusting the bladder pressure? 

Whatever the reason, and despite what you dyno tells you, at my weight, 68 Kg, the bladder pressure makes a sizable difference in the shock performance.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Davide said:


> Might be that the reason that literally hundreds of Topaz users fine tune their shock by adjusting the bladder pressure?


_*Realizes DVO make mass-produced dampers*



*....rushing back to my hardtail*_


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

alex.k said:


> _*Realizes DVO make mass-produced dampers
> 
> 
> 
> ....rushing back to my hardtail*_


Oh right I did a gazillion mods on the Topaz.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Davide said:


> Here we go, the cinch in the armor. After months of waisting everybody's time by claiming that bladder pressure has no effect whatever, _*now it turns out it has an effect on spring rate*_. Might be that the reason that literally hundreds of Topaz users fine tune their shock by adjusting the bladder pressure?
> 
> Whatever the reason, and despite what you dyno tells you, at my weight, 68 Kg, the bladder pressure makes a sizable difference in the shock performance.


"Now"? It always did.

Dougal is wrong in underestimating the effect of bladder pressure. Seems to be right about everything else though, and it's a shitty way to tune.... unless of course you like top of the stroke firm.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davide said:


> Here we go, the cinch in the armor. After months of waisting everybody's time by claiming that bladder pressure has no effect whatever, now it turns out it has an effect on spring rate. Might be that the reason that literally hundreds of Topaz users fine tune their shock by adjusting the bladder pressure?
> 
> Whatever the reason, and despite what you dyno tells you, at my weight, 68 Kg, the bladder pressure makes a sizable difference in the shock performance.





EatsDirt said:


> "Now"? It always did.
> 
> Dougal is wrong in underestimating the effect of bladder pressure. Seems to be right about everything else though, and it's a shitty way to tune.... unless of course you like top of the stroke firm.


Guys the effect of IFP/Bladder pressure on spring-rate is single digits lb/in. It's close to constant force across the stroke and you cannot feel rate changes that low while riding. You can only feel the preload effect.

I have a computerised spring-rate tester.


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Guys the effect of IFP/Bladder pressure on spring-rate is single digits lb/in. It's close to constant force across the stroke and you cannot feel rate changes that low while riding. You can only feel the preload effect.
> 
> I have a computerised spring-rate tester.


This is just quite ridiculous. Go ride your bike and stop wasting everybody's time with the notion that your gadgets are better judges than what people experience in the real world. Go ride! Really! Have some fun outdoors 🐙


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davide said:


> This is just quite ridiculous. Go ride your bike and stop wasting everybody's time with the notion that your gadgets are better judges than what people experience in the real world. Go ride! Really! Have some fun outdoors 🐙


I'm back from riding my bike. You're still wrong.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Guys the effect of IFP/Bladder pressure on spring-rate is single digits lb/in. It's close to constant force across the stroke and you cannot feel rate changes that low while riding. You can only feel the preload effect.
> 
> I have a computerised spring-rate tester.


I can‘t argue with what your dyno etc is telling you, I can only say that I feel a substantial difference in how supple the shock is off the top going from say 180 to 200. Three different topaz shocks and probably over 4 years exclusively.

I can tell when the bladder is getting low based on how supple it is.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> I can‘t argue with what your dyno etc is telling you, I can only say that I feel a substantial difference in how supple the shock is off the top going from say 180 to 200. Three different topaz shocks and probably over 4 years exclusively.
> 
> I can tell when the bladder is getting low based on how supple it is.


Of course you do. The preload effect of Bladder/IFP pressure is felt the most off the top.

This is the same for all shocks. The Topaz isn't any different.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Of course you do. The preload effect of Bladder/IFP pressure is felt the most off the top.
> 
> This is the same for all shocks. The Topaz isn't any different.


You seem to elude that low spring forces created by the bladder pressure aren’t being felt. I’m just sayin the preload is real.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> You seem to elude that low spring forces created by the bladder pressure aren’t being felt. I’m just sayin the preload is real.


Do you understand the difference between air spring preload and air spring rate?

Low spring rate =/= low spring force.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Hey can someone tell me what the changing the bladder pressure does?


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

kapusta said:


> Hey can someone tell me what the changing the bladder pressure does?


depends if you know how to use a dyno or not haha


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kapusta said:


> Hey can someone tell me what the changing the bladder pressure does?


Higher bladder pressure gives more spring force.


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Do you understand the difference between air spring preload and air spring rate?
> 
> Low spring rate =/= low spring force.





Dougal said:


> Bladder pressure is preload and a small effect on spring rate only.


Does increased bladder pressure raise the whole spring curve? If you are telling me NO, then maybe you should razzle dazzle me with some of your engineerd speak and graphs.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

EatsDirt said:


> Does increased bladder pressure raise the whole spring curve? If you are telling me NO, then maybe you should razzle dazzle me with some of your engineerd speak and graphs.


The effect on spring-rate is almost zero.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmm, I'll give my try to describing how the Bladder pressure affects, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong(I'm trying to learn this too):

Bladder (or IFP), is another (air) spring which is acting in parallel with the "main" spring, total spring force of the shock in any given position is the sum of these two. The bladder has no negative spring, hence the spring force it generates is "there" already from the beginning of stroke, contrary to main air spring where negative spring balances the initial force close to zero(or even negative*). Spring force from the bladder increases as shock compresses, but the effect that can be felt is most likely only on the very beginning part where negative spring of the main spring affects. So, increasing bladder pressure increases the force needed to get the shock initially moving(=pre-load?). 

The force would be relatively small, the shock is somewhat easy to compress even by hand with air can removed (only the bladder generates spring force), but with air can installed and even a little pressure it is pretty much impossible to compress the shock by hand...

* Now some speculation on this; I'm not sure if the negative spring part of the main air spring can (or if it is even wise to) be designed so that when shock is fully extended the main air spring force is actually slightly negative, in order to compensate the "pre-load" from the bladder/IFP, to get the overall "breakaway force" close to zero. Ridiculous idea, or something that is maybe goin' on already..?


----------



## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Verttii said:


> Hmm, I'll give my try to describing how the Bladder pressure affects, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong(I'm trying to learn this too):
> 
> Bladder (or IFP), is another (air) spring which is acting in parallel with the "main" spring, total spring force of the shock in any given position is the sum of these two. The bladder has no negative spring, hence the spring force it generates is "there" already from the beginning of stroke, contrary to main air spring where negative spring balances the initial force close to zero(or even negative*). Spring force from the bladder increases as shock compresses, but the effect that can be felt is most likely only on the very beginning part where negative spring of the main spring affects. So, increasing bladder pressure increases the force needed to get the shock initially moving(=pre-load?).
> 
> ...


This makes sense to me, but I'm sure Dougal will come along to tell you you're wrong.


----------



## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Doing some quick math on the bladder question, if the area the oil pressure from the bladder is the area between the ID of the air shaft (27mm OD w/~1.5mm thickness = 24mm ID) and the OD of the damper shaft (10mm) we get an area of 0.58 sq. inches, and so the shock force at 170 & 200 psi are 98.5 lbs and 115.9 lbs, respectively. So the difference in the force at the wheel would amount to 5.5 lbs given a token a leverage ratio of 3.175 (Ibis ripmo AF/V2 @ top out).


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Verttii said:


> Hmm, I'll give my try to describing how the Bladder pressure affects, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong(I'm trying to learn this too):
> 
> Bladder (or IFP), is another (air) spring which is acting in parallel with the "main" spring, total spring force of the shock in any given position is the sum of these two. The bladder has no negative spring, hence the spring force it generates is "there" already from the beginning of stroke, contrary to main air spring where negative spring balances the initial force close to zero(or even negative*). Spring force from the bladder increases as shock compresses, but the effect that can be felt is most likely only on the very beginning part where negative spring of the main spring affects. So, increasing bladder pressure increases the force needed to get the shock initially moving(=pre-load?).
> 
> ...


Yes that's it. The rate of force rise with compression (hence spring rate from the reservoir) is very low and the preload is the only thing you really feel.

Air springs aren't tuned to give extra negative to counter that because then max air pressure could suck the shock down.



WhatsUpcountry said:


> Doing some quick math on the bladder question, if the area the oil pressure from the bladder is the area between the ID of the air shaft (27mm OD w/~1.5mm thickness = 24mm ID) and the OD of the damper shaft (10mm) we get an area of 0.58 sq. inches, and so the shock force at 170 & 200 psi are 98.5 lbs and 115.9 lbs, respectively. So the difference in the force at the wheel would amount to 5.5 lbs given a token a leverage ratio of 3.175 (Ibis ripmo AF/V2 @ top out).


The maths is even easier than that. It's simply bladder pressure on shaft area.

200psi on a 10mm shaft is 11kg (24lb).


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Dougal said:


> The maths is even easier than that. It's simply bladder pressure on shaft area.
> 
> 200psi on a 10mm shaft is 11kg (24lb).


oof yeah I was mixing that up with force on the air spring


----------



## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Dougal said:


> I'm back from riding my bike. You're still wrong.


You seem to be the kind of person who just wants to be right, and enjoy tell people that they are wrong. Even when it not even clear what one is discussing. But ok, sure, if it makes you happy: you are right! Now leave people alone to enjoy their mistakes! 

🦑 Night ride tonight with my so incompetently tuned Topaz! Coyotes here I come! 🦑


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Is it possible the shock is just close to the point of cavitation at 180psi so the more "supple" feeling is actually just less damping?

I've never really noticed 180 vs 190 psi, but I did notice that when the bike started feeling awfully soft to trail chatter and kind of like a pogo stick I'd find bladder pressure down around 160psi. Getting pressure back up immediately got rid of that suppleness but made the bike much more controlled feeling.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mike156 said:


> Is it possible the shock is just close to the point of cavitation at 180psi so the more "supple" feeling is actually just less damping?
> 
> I've never really noticed 180 vs 190 psi, but I did notice that when the bike started feeling awfully soft to trail chatter and kind of like a pogo stick I'd find bladder pressure down around 160psi. Getting pressure back up immediately got rid of that suppleness but made the bike much more controlled feeling.


How foamed is your damper? I've had to run 300 in a customers Topaz 2 to stop massive foaming.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> How foamed is your damper? I've had to run 300 in a customers Topaz 2 to stop massive foaming.


I'm surprised you don't have a whole barell of Red Line LikeWater. That's what's used when you send it for a factory service.


----------



## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> I'm surprised you don't have a whole barell of Red Line LikeWater. That's what's used when you send it for a factory service.


Even for heavier riders?


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

mike156 said:


> Is it possible the shock is just close to the point of cavitation at 180psi so the more "supple" feeling is actually just less damping?
> 
> I've never really noticed 180 vs 190 psi, but I did notice that when the bike started feeling awfully soft to trail chatter and kind of like a pogo stick I'd find bladder pressure down around 160psi. Getting pressure back up immediately got rid of that suppleness but made the bike much more controlled feeling.


Öhlins spec 170psi in their bladders. Maybe Dougal can expound on how pressure differentials before cavitation vary from their stuff to the Topaz but also the piston on a ttx is solid with the shims being where the adjusters are IIRC, similar to moto designs.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> Even for heavier riders?


Yep. I guess if they know your weight to be near 300psi recc. then they might consult with you or use something else.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> I'm surprised you don't have a whole barell of Red Line LikeWater. That's what's used when you send it for a factory service.


I've got a bottle of it for Fox Transfers. But I've seen shim corrosion and discoloration from Redline so I'm not going to use it for anything else. 
I have Motorex Corex 5 and 10 but there are very few applications that need it. Virtually every damper can be tuned to a happy place with 15 cSt fluids.



alex.k said:


> Öhlins spec 170psi in their bladders. Maybe Dougal can expound on how pressure differentials before cavitation vary from their stuff to the Topaz but also the piston on a ttx is solid with the shims being where the adjusters are IIRC, similar to moto designs.


Cavitation happens when the damping forces pull a negative pressure on the downstream side of the piston. Cavitation is prevented by backpressure from the base-valve and IFP pressure. If you have no base-valve (like inline shocks) you need higher IFP pressure. If you have a strong base-valve you can run lower IFP pressure.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Thought inline shock IFPs worked by totally random compensation until now.

I also got discolouration though no other oil pairs with it as well if we're talking engineering(again, ride the shock, its made with a whole other philosophy than other brands)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Thought inline shock IFPs worked by totally random compensation until now.
> 
> I also got discolouration though no other oil pairs with it as well if we're talking engineering(again, ride the shock, its made with a whole other philosophy than other brands)


How can a shock which uses the same fundamentals as every other shock be made with a whole other philosophy?


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

0.15mm exclusive succeeding shims aren't popular. Increasing reservoir pressure isn't either. Floating feeling due to delayed dynamic gas exchange between canister and sleeve* isn't something I've seen elsewhere. Also instant transition between compression and rebound. All combined with little to no stiction.

*Thats for positive _and_ negative sides.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Idea being you charge hard and it's cool off the shelf.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> 0.15mm exclusive succeeding shims aren't popular. Increasing reservoir pressure isn't either. Floating feeling due to delayed dynamic gas exchange between canister and sleeve* isn't something I've seen elsewhere. Also instant transition between compression and rebound. All combined with little to no stiction.
> 
> *Thats for positive _and_ negative sides.





alex.k said:


> Idea being you charge hard and it's cool off the shelf.


The real things you've mentioned are found in many other shocks. The made up things you've mentioned do not do what you think they do.


----------



## springs (May 20, 2017)

Dougal said:


> The real things you've mentioned are found in many other shocks. The made up things you've mentioned do not do what you think they do.


If he made them up they are probably doing exactly what he thinks they are doing lol


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Nah I just didn't mention plushness


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> The real things you've mentioned are found in many other shocks. The made up things you've mentioned do not do what you think they do.


Take a pilgrimage to Christchurch mate or this might be the third thread you're shutting down.


----------



## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

Dougal said:


> How foamed is your damper? I've had to run 300 in a customers





alex.k said:


> Take a pilgrimage to Christchurch mate or this might be the third thread you're shutting down.


Alex. Please don’t insult the almighty Douglas and his faulty dyno


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Take a pilgrimage to Christchurch mate or this might be the third thread you're shutting down.


Can anyone help me out with a translation here?

In case you're suggesting I need to contact the NZ DVO guys. I know Jessie and do regular business with him. Great guy and amazing product support. The issue we're having here is you think a bladder pressure is a magical adjustment. But it's not.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

You must be busy if that's what you took from my posts. 
- I'm the only one who agreed with you that it doesn't change damping. I pointed out that it caters to heavier riders as it was advertised to do. Beyond that its practical testing that reveals how the compression affects chassis stability to anyone who adjusted theirs.

Having that green colour on your avatar makes me think you'll get along well with all of their shocks.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> You must be busy if that's what you took from my posts.
> - I'm the only one who agreed with you that it doesn't change damping. I pointed out that it caters to heavier riders as it was advertised to do. Beyond that its practical testing that reveals how the compression affects chassis stability to anyone who adjusted theirs.
> 
> Having that green colour on your avatar makes me think you'll get along well with all of their shocks.


I'm having to get really creative to get meaning from your posts. 
Shockcraft was founded in 2006 and our green logo designed in early 2007. DVO started in 2012.

I do get on well with their shocks. But I recommend them for lighter riders, not heavier.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> I do get on well with their shocks. But I recommend them for lighter riders, not heavier.


Fair enough, the new version might better suit heavier riders. Lateral loads, less cavitation perhaps.. yada yada yada


----------



## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

Dougal said:


> I'm having to get really creative to get meaning from your posts.
> Shockcraft was founded in 2006 and our green logo designed in early 2007. DVO started in 2012.
> 
> I do get on well with their shocks. But I recommend them for lighter riders, not heavier.


Not heavier? Is that because you struggle to work out how to tune them. All of us North America dealers can ring DVO and have a shock tuned when we buy it so your statement isn’t correct, and I’m sure your NZ guy can do that for any of your customers based on their social media

Try this in a jade x if your struggling for heavy riders and it’s what Ronald did for us in our 200lb levo riders

rebound all 0.15 shims. No ring. 11mm, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 14, 16, 16. Piston. Comp all 0.15 shims. 22mm, 22. 20, 18, 17, 13. Ring shim.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Fair enough, the new version might better suit heavier riders. Lateral loads, less cavitation perhaps.. yada yada yada





Jrp103 said:


> Not heavier? Is that because you struggle to work out how to tune them. All of us North America dealers can ring DVO and have a shock tuned when we buy it so your statement isn’t correct, and I’m sure your NZ guy can do that for any of your customers based on their social media
> 
> Try this in a jade x if your struggling for heavy riders and it’s what Ronald did for us in our 200lb levo riders
> 
> rebound all 0.15 shims. No ring. 11mm, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 14, 16, 16. Piston. Comp all 0.15 shims. 22mm, 22. 20, 18, 17, 13. Ring shim.


For heavier riders it really needs a new base-valve with more damping. For lighter riders they work. Previous 3 position base-valve was effective only as a lockout and needed high bladder pressure to stop cavitation. Just like a Monarch. The HSC/LSC basevalve version is also low on damping and needs revalved for more range.
If you get mid valve and base-valve out of step you get issues with cavitation and/or hysteresis. Most stock shocks have this problem.

200lb (~90kg) ain't that heavy. 130kg (~285lb) E bike riders aren't uncommon.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> For heavier riders it really needs a new base-valve with more damping. For lighter riders they work. Previous 3 position base-valve was effective only as a lockout and needed high bladder pressure to stop cavitation. Just like a Monarch. The HSC/LSC basevalve version is also low on damping and needs revalved for more range.
> If you get mid valve and base-valve out of step you get issues with cavitation and/or hysteresis. Most stock shocks have this problem.
> 
> 200lb (~90kg) ain't that heavy. 130kg (~285lb) E bike riders aren't uncommon.


Meanwhile fork mid-valves are an obtuse concept in brands' design teams. I really miss my RL2 damper


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Meanwhile fork mid-valves are an obtuse concept in brands' design teams. I really miss my RL2 damper


It's almost like rear shocks need ~10x more damping and run ~3x lower speeds than forks do.

Hmmmm.


----------



## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Well at least I can say that I have a smaller travel to stroke ratio than on most bikes.


----------



## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Dougal said:


> For heavier riders it really needs a new base-valve with more damping. For lighter riders they work. Previous 3 position base-valve was effective only as a lockout and needed high bladder pressure to stop cavitation. Just like a Monarch. The HSC/LSC basevalve version is also low on damping and needs revalved for more range.
> If you get mid valve and base-valve out of step you get issues with cavitation and/or hysteresis. Most stock shocks have this problem.
> 
> 200lb (~90kg) ain't that heavy. 130kg (~285lb) E bike riders aren't uncommon.


So when you say topaz isnt good for heavier riders, do you mean like 225-250# and up?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> So when you say topaz isnt good for heavier riders, do you mean like 225-250# and up?


The amount of damping you need depends on your weight, bike geometry, bike leverage ratio and how you ride.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> So when you say topaz isnt good for heavier riders, do you mean like 225-250# and up?


Max bladder pressure providing a platform caps at 215lbs. Please never pump 300psi in it.

In that position I'd check leverage and canister size(eye it) compared to stock shock then add volume spacers and maybe a NeoPos spacer cut in half inside the canister.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Max bladder pressure providing a platform caps at 215lbs. Please never pump 300psi in it.
> 
> In that position I'd check leverage and canister size(eye it) compared to stock shock then add volume spacers and maybe a NeoPos spacer cut in half inside the canister.


This is the problem. To prevent cavitation under heavier (or more aggressive) riders you need more pressure in the system. It can only come from two things.
1. Bladder pressure (static pressure).
2. Base-valve (dynamic back pressure).

Until someone makes a base-valve with less free-bleed in it (like the Vorsprung Tractive in the Monarch) we are stuck with bladder pressure as the only option.
If you respect the ~200psi limit then you're stuck with lightweight riders only.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> Max bladder pressure providing a platform caps at 215lbs. Please never pump 300psi in it.
> 
> In that position I'd check leverage and canister size(eye it) compared to stock shock then add volume spacers and maybe a NeoPos spacer cut in half inside the canister.


i weigh 210, was just wondering if i was what Dougal considered as "too heavy" for this shock to work right for me. I have not put more than 200 psi in bladder


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> i weigh 210, was just wondering if i was what Dougal considered as "too heavy" for this shock to work right for me. I have not put more than 200 psi in bladder


Depends on bike geometry, leverage ratios and riding style.
A sedate 210lb rider isn't going to overwork anything. An aggressive 210lb rider can turn shocks into foam bombs.

If you don't have enough compression damping your bike feels unstable at speed and requires excessive air pressure.
If you don't have enough bladder pressure your shock will turn into a foam bomb.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Depends on bike geometry, leverage ratios and riding style.
> A sedate 210lb rider isn't going to overwork anything. An aggressive 210lb rider can turn shocks into foam bombs.


Banshee rune v2, 160 mm ravel, 2.5' shock stroke, LR 2.54, 232 psi in main can 200 psi bladder. I dont consider myself a super aggresssive rider, but ride chunky trails, mostly slower medium tech with some fast stuff thrown in. Im no racer and not a lot of big drops


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> Banshee rune v2, 160 mm ravel, 2.5' shock stroke, LR 2.54, 232 psi in main can 200 psi bladder. I dont consider myself a super aggresssive rider, but ride chunky trails, mostly slower medium tech with some fast stuff thrown in. Im no racer and not a lot of big drops


If you're not feeling unstable at speed and not getting the shock foamed up then you're okay.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Dougal said:


> If you're not feeling unstable at speed and not getting the shock foamed up then you're okay.


Seems fine, just wondering if maybe i was missing something.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

kapusta said:


> Hey can someone tell me what the changing the bladder pressure does?


All I know for sure is if my bladder pressure gets too high, I pee myself.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> i weigh 210, was just wondering if i was what Dougal considered as "too heavy" for this shock to work right for me. I have not put more than 200 psi in bladder


You are getting some disinformation from the usual culprit. The DVO web site list the specs for the TOPAZ up to a 250 pounds rider. You are completely within the range of the shock.








As others have said you should play around with the volume reducers or find a setting you like. They are extremely effective and it takes blink to install/remove. If you are still not happy I would call DVO, and see is they suggest a factory custom tuning.




.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

When discussing rear shocks, Isn’t it hard to talk about rider weight implications without factoring in the leverage ratio of the rear suspension?


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

high and low speed compression on the new topaz


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Jrp103 said:


> View attachment 1970124
> 
> 
> high and low speed compression on the new topaz


You sure? No mention about it here:






Or here:









2023 Topaz Gen 3 (NEW)


The next generation of Topaz is here. The updated variation of our do-it-all air shock is designed to meet the grueling demands of the modern rider with a 27% stronger inner shaft. The new housing is designed around a transverse reservoir layout to aid in oil flow and achieve more frame...



dvo.nz


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

HollyBoni said:


> You sure? No mention about it here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks like they have plugged it into the low speed assembly. I asked the NZ guy and he said yes but wouldn’t tell me any more


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Jrp103 said:


> looks like they have plugged it into the low speed assembly. I asked the NZ guy and he said yes but wouldn’t tell me any more


That's pretty weird considering you can buy the new shock already on the NZ website (or at least I think so?).


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

HollyBoni said:


> That's pretty weird considering you can buy the new shock already on the NZ website (or at least I think so?).


whats weird? That you can buy the new shock in NZ or that they are prototype testing additional retrofitable things to existing suspension? Seems really normal to me.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Jrp103 said:


> whats weird? That you can buy the new shock in NZ or that they are prototype testing additional retrofitable things to existing suspension? Seems really normal to me.


Oh I think I might have misunderstood something. I thought that the 2022 Topaz that you can buy in NZ already has the HS compression adjust, but at the same time the NZ guy that you asked is secretive about it, even though the product is out on the market.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

HollyBoni said:


> Oh I think I might have misunderstood something. I thought that the 2022 Topaz that you can buy in NZ already has the HS compression adjust, but at the same time the NZ guy that you asked is secretive about it, even though the product is out on the market.


ahh I see. The shock itself is definitely available it’s just the add in that I noticed and asked about


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kapusta said:


> When discussing rear shocks, Isn’t it hard to talk about rider weight implications without factoring in the leverage ratio of the rear suspension?


Careful. @Davide will be accusing you of disinformation!



Jrp103 said:


> View attachment 1970124
> 
> 
> high and low speed compression on the new topaz


Spy shots and rumours and even rider reports abound, but not released yet.


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

kapusta said:


> When discussing rear shocks, Isn’t it hard to talk about rider weight implications without factoring in the leverage ratio of the rear suspension?


Indeed, and it is the main problem with some people reliance on off-the-bike dyno measurements, instead of actually riding the shock. Put the same shock on two different bikes, and it will behave completely different.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Davide said:


> Indeed, and it is the main problem with some people reliance on off-the-bike dyno measurements, instead of actually riding the shock. Put the same shock on two different bikes, and it will behave completely different.


No not completely different. Just somewhat different. Which is why Suspension Engineers calculate out spring and damper rates at the wheels using the leverage rates. And vice-versa to calculate required shock spring and damper rates from target wheel rates.

This is the basics of suspension engineering and you're treating it like some wierd black art that's never been understood.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Enlarged the negative sleeve port as well while adding spacers and theres slightly more traction in the chop, akin to old generation air shocks.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Dougal said:


> This is the problem. To prevent cavitation under heavier (or more aggressive) riders you need more pressure in the system. It can only come from two things.
> 1. Bladder pressure (static pressure).
> 2. Base-valve (dynamic back pressure).
> 
> ...


Ironically, I think the vorsprung base valve would go right into the Topaz. The Topaz oil reservoir screws right into a monarch+ anyway so I am assuming the base valve is nearly identical in general size as well. Not sure why vorsprung doesn't do their tuning on the Topaz as well, although the Topaz does have a different main piston.

As far as foamed up oil... Honestly the Topaz doesn't have a whole lot of compression damping to begin with. Even in the middle position, it doesn't do much and in the lock position, it's only marginally more stiff. Point being, not sure foamed oil would be all that noticable on it?

Odd rebound damping behavior is about the only thing I noticed when the bladder pressure got low.

IMO, the reason the Topaz is better than a monarch+ is simply they didn't screw up the equalization port in the air spring so the air spring actually works correctly. It looks like the new version has some nice features for reliability. If they keep the old air spring and then add Compression adjustment, they could have a great new shock.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

mike156 said:


> Ironically, I think the vorsprung base valve would go right into the Topaz. The Topaz oil reservoir screws right into a monarch+ anyway so I am assuming the base valve is nearly identical in general size as well. Not sure why vorsprung doesn't do their tuning on the Topaz as well, although the Topaz does have a different main piston.
> 
> As far as foamed up oil... Honestly the Topaz doesn't have a whole lot of compression damping to begin with. Even in the middle position, it doesn't do much and in the lock position, it's only marginally more stiff. Point being, not sure foamed oil would be all that noticable on it?
> 
> ...


I remember when I was setting my shock from day 1, I got all measurements on point and the last thing I tweaked was the T3 lever as I was playing with open and trail. There was a position that I set it at between 7 and 8 o'clock where it would barely stay in place before the spring flicked it to open and it had ideal damping like that. If anyone can scratch up a way to get the adjuster set like that without opening the damper it will be cool for everyone.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

mike156 said:


> …. and in the lock position, it's only marginally more stiff.


You serious…??

I‘ve had three T3, all of them have felt plenty firm in ‘lock’, even when comparing to recent/past Fox platforms.

This thread is fkn weird. Wish Ronnie would drop in here.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

I recently bought a used 2021 model Topaz T3 that came off a Ripmo. I sent it in to DVO for a service and retune for my Tilt.

Something of note is that contrary what I have read about the 3 position lever, the locked out position is in fact pretty locked out. You get a little movement, but not much.

I don’t know if this was like that before sending it in because I did not yet have the mounting hardware for it.


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

EatsDirt said:


> You serious…??
> 
> I‘ve had three T3, all of them have felt plenty firm in ‘lock’, even when comparing to recent/past Fox platforms.
> 
> This thread is fkn weird. Wish Ronnie would drop in here.


Always the possibility mine wasn't working correctly. It was "new" when I bought it in early 2020 but had a 2017 build date. I had to replace the air seals too as it wouldn't hold air initially. Not sure what's normal, but the bladder would also lose about 10psi a week. I don't think the damper was too bad off though as I had to run rebound pretty fast and it was clear it had enough damping to run too slow.

Even with those issues, it's still the best air shock I tried. Lol

The monarch+ in trail mode would make things pretty sketchy when it was steep. In contrast, trail and open on the Topaz wasn't at all noticable. Climb on the Topaz felt about like the Monarch+ in trail mode. Climb on the Monarch+ was MUCH more locked out then the Topaz.

I'm not complaining as I'm not a fan of climb switches. I'd much rather have an adjuster that does something. For comparison, the AVY Bomber CR I have currently I can tell the difference on every click. The 2019 Float X2 I had I could feel the affect of about 2 clocks, but I never could get it to feel better (for my riding type) then the Topaz.

FWIW, the Topaz and Monarch+ basically bypass the base valve when in open mode. They both use a preloaded shim stack on the base valve and in the mid position there is a small bleed hole to bypass the base valve. In climb, the bypass is completely blocked and all oil has to go through the base valve. I don't remember the specifics, but I recall the Topaz having a softer base valve shim stack then the Monarch+. Likewise, I revalved a monarch+ and messed with that preload and you can definitely impact the compression damping in the trail and climb positions. I removed all the preload and it actually reduced compression damping so much that it actually made it hard to pull the front wheel up over things because the bike would just squat instead.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

mike156 said:


> you can definitely impact the compression damping in the trail and climb positions. *I removed all the preload* and it actually reduced compression damping so much that it actually made it hard to pull the front wheel up over things because the bike would just squat instead.


I'm curious- what was your logic in doing that?


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

I intended to run it only in the pedal or climb position since open is like a 4mm bleed hole. Even in climb though, the stock stack without preload was still way too soft.

I think I tried only half the preload after that and it worked pretty well as it had more LSC then open on the stock Monarch+ but less then the stock pedal position and climb was then about the same as stock pedal position. Open felt the same as stock. I swapped to several different shocks after that though and stopped messing with the revalved.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

mike156 said:


> I intended to run it only in the pedal or climb position since open is like a 4mm bleed hole. Even in climb though, the stock stack without preload was still way too soft.
> 
> I think I tried only half the preload after that and it worked pretty well as it had more LSC then open on the stock Monarch+ but less then the stock pedal position and climb was then about the same as stock pedal position. Open felt the same as stock. I swapped to several different shocks after that though and stopped messing with the revalved.


I see, I just tried removing the spacer shims between the stack and the nut and also flipped the nut around so its flush with the shims but no difference. My stock DPS even with a L/L tune tanks through soft earth when I pedal in the middle position as opposed to a sluggish feeling with the topaz. Which is also why I bothered with the port enlargement for the springiness to come back.
_Edit_: I added more shims(a few more 0.1s and another 0.3 on top) with the nut back to normal and got it to lock up properly.

Douglas had a good point about the piston having too much free-bleed, though efficiency aside, I do believe everything is on point.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Since I'm being superfluous with the mods I wanna mention that I used Stixall(silicone/adhesive hybrid) for the bladder, I'd recommend it if you're doing a bleed. DUO-Sil Ultra would be the US equivalent, the Gorilla stuff might not be as strong.


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## leejohnh22 (Mar 23, 2020)

Does anyone know if the new Topaz also loses air fairly quickly in the piggyback like the prev gen does?


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

The last one lost air quickly?


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## mike156 (Jul 10, 2017)

Mine did, but I will say, for a lot of people, it might not be a true loss and just the effects of connecting the pump.

I have a no-loss valve on my pump so I've experimented a bit. if I pump it up to 190psi and then close the shock valve and vent the pump line, when I open the shock valve back up, the observed pressure will be in the 160psi range. The volume in the bladder is so small that connecting the pump without pre-pressurizing the pump hose has a massive impact on the observed pressures.


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## leejohnh22 (Mar 23, 2020)

mike156 said:


> Mine did, but I will say, for a lot of people, it might not be a true loss and just the effects of connecting the pump.
> 
> I have a no-loss valve on my pump so I've experimented a bit. if I pump it up to 190psi and then close the shock valve and vent the pump line, when I open the shock valve back up, the observed pressure will be in the 160psi range. The volume in the bladder is so small that connecting the pump without pre-pressurizing the pump hose has a massive impact on the observed pressures.


That's a good point, I'm wondering if for most people this was simply the case and a case of actually losing air pressure in the bladder.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

If the bladder pressure seems to drop, in increasing pace over time so that you need to increase pressure every ride, changing the bladder to a new one will likely solve it. New bladder is cheap and it isn't dramatically difficult to change. You can change the oil at same time, but probably not necessary, just a regular bleed to get air out...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Verttii said:


> If the bladder pressure seems to drop, in increasing pace over time so that you need to increase pressure every ride, changing the bladder to a new one will likely solve it. New bladder is cheap and it isn't dramatically difficult to change. You can change the oil at same time, but probably not necessary, just a regular bleed to get air out...


A new one will seep too, haven't heard of a case of a defected one. Hopefully someone can report on the 2022 model. And hopefully someone with a Sunn Kern can report on how it pairs because dang look at that pivot placement its science sawce








As the T3 ranks under a DH damper and the linkage here being full enduro it will be good feedback for the industry


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

alex.k said:


> A new one will seep too, haven't heard of a case of a defected one...


It is not that the leaking one would be defective or punctured or so, just somehow "worn out" or something. I at least had one starting to leak and it did not hold air and got worse over time. I did change the oil and re-grease the original bladder twice, problem persisted, then replaced it with a new one, boom, problem gone and bladder holds air again. No, it was not the valve, I checked that too and I used the same with the new bladder too...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Verttii said:


> It is not that the leaking one would be defective or punctured or so, just somehow "worn out" or something. I at least had one starting to leak and it did not hold air and got worse over time. I did change the oil and re-grease the original bladder twice, problem persisted, then replaced it with a new one, boom, problem gone and bladder holds air again. No, it was not the valve, I checked that too and I used the same with the new bladder too...


Hence my choice of word defected vs defective. I suppose it's rare but same issue nonetheless, mine leaked from the box as with pretty much all units


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## miles of pain (Sep 11, 2009)

Just got a Topaz T3 and could use some help with tuning. I've got it set at 30% sag, zero volume spacers, 175 PSI in the bladder. It's really plush and smooth off the top, but the midstroke starts to feel harsh/too firm, and after riding a fast rough trail, the travel indicator still had about 15mm until bottom. I'd like to get the midstroke more plush feeling. I'll be playing around with it on my next rides, but any tips?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

miles of pain said:


> Just got a Topaz T3 and could use some help with tuning. I've got it set at 30% sag, zero volume spacers, 175 PSI in the bladder. It's really plush and smooth off the top, but the midstroke starts to feel harsh/too firm, and after riding a fast rough trail, the travel indicator still had about 15mm until bottom. I'd like to get the midstroke more plush feeling. I'll be playing around with it on my next rides, but any tips?


The common approach to soften the midstroke is to add a negative spacer though I believe it's the inherent design of the air spring of the Topaz - I've felt this too to the point where it's unpleasant

_Whatever you do stick with the sag you landed on when first setting up._


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> The common approach to soften the midstroke is to add a negative spacer though I believe it's the inherent design of the air spring of the Topaz - I've felt this too to the point where it's unpleasant
> 
> _Whatever you do stick with the sag you landed on when first setting up._


im confused, I thought adding neg spacers firmed up the beginning, and some of the middle, -stroke?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> I remember when I was setting my shock from day 1, I got all measurements on point and the last thing I tweaked was the T3 lever as I was playing with open and trail. There was a position that I set it at between 7 and 8 o'clock where it would barely stay in place before the spring flicked it to open and it had ideal damping like that. If anyone can scratch up a way to get the adjuster set like that without opening the damper it will be cool for everyone.


Duct tape the lever in that position?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> im confused, I thought adding neg spacers firmed up the beginning, and some of the middle, -stroke?


It does firm up the beginning but loosens the middle stroke. Think the initial impact absorbed overwhelms the first tenths of the travel where it is hard and then is quick to compress the middle part with the shaft moving uninterrupted. Oppositely with large negative volume the impact gets transferred from a soft start to deeper in where it is harder there.


dwyooaj said:


> Duct tape the lever in that position?


Veery nice*borat voice*. -BUT climb mode has to be usable


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> It does firm up the beginning but loosens the middle stroke. Think the initial impact absorbed overwhelms the first tenths of the travel where it is hard and then is quick to compress the middle part with the shaft moving uninterrupted. Oppositely with large negative volume the impact gets transferred from a soft start to deeper in where it is harder there. (bs design IMO, I'm all for coil negative springs)
> 
> Veery nice*borat voice*. -BUT climb switch has to be usable


Maybe ill try one neg spacer then, i want softer midstroke and just a little less bobby when climbing. should i keep air pressure the same? Keep the 1 spacer I have in pos?
Would I notice the slighty less small bump sensitivity?
'18 banshee rune v2- bikes' leverage curve is highest at beginning of stroke, decreases quickly to its lowest 2/3 into travel, then increases again at the end a bit


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> Maybe ill try one neg spacer then, i want softer midstroke and just a little less bobby when climbing. should i keep air pressure the same? Keep the 1 spacer I have in pos?
> Would I notice the slighty less small bump sensitivity?


It's mainly a benefit for better pedalling with the other effect being a little less small bump, would recommend it, with the same pressure that is.
As for midstroke what I'd recommend instead is to compress the bike mightily from a standing roll and check travel used then adjust the pressure till its where you like it, keeping the positive for now.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> '18 banshee rune v2- bikes' leverage curve is quite high at beginning of stroke, decreases quickly to its lowest 2/3 into travel, then increases again at the end a bit


Since you have some support, I wouldn't forgo it.



alex.k said:


> As for midstroke what I'd recommend instead is to *compress the bike mightily from a standing roll and check travel used* then adjust the pressure till its where you like it, keeping the positive for now.


This is actually the no tech-nonsense practical classic way to check chassis stiffness irrelevant of suspension type and class so give it a try


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> Since you have some support, I wouldn't forgo it.


 Im not sure exactly what you mean there


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> This is actually the no tech-nonsense practical classic way to check chassis stiffness irrelevant of suspension type and class so give it a try


 What percentage of stroke should I be looking for?


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

id rather not add a neg spacer if I dont have to, but are you saying to just decrease my air pressure to get softer midstroke? Sag is 30%


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> It's mainly a benefit for better pedalling with the other effect being a little less small bump, would recommend it, with the same pressure that is.
> As for midstroke what I'd recommend instead is to compress the bike mightily from a standing roll and check travel used then adjust the pressure till its where you like it, keeping the positive for now.


id rather not add a neg spacer if I dont have to, but are you saying to just decrease my air pressure to get softer midstroke? Sag is 30%


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> Im not sure exactly what you mean there


Right, my bad. The leverage curve is quite restrictive but provides good support so don't manipulate midstroke much.



dwyooaj said:


> What percentage of stroke should I be looking for?


About 80%, but no more


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Don't get intimidated by the Topaz's stubborn nature, it's a controlled shock made for hard riding.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> It does firm up the beginning but loosens the middle stroke. Think the initial impact absorbed overwhelms the first tenths of the travel where it is hard and then is quick to compress the middle part with the shaft moving uninterrupted. Oppositely with large negative volume the impact gets transferred from a soft start to deeper in where it is harder there.
> 
> Veery nice*borat voice*. -BUT climb mode has to be usable


then why does dvo's setup guide say to add neg spacer to INCREASE mid stroke support?


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It doesn't increase mid stroke support, but does reduce sag, as in increase beginning stroke support a little.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> then why does dvo's setup guide say to add neg spacer to INCREASE mid stroke support?


It says add _*either *_negative or positive prob because a negative will allow less compression under small weight shifts and pedal input[same as stated above by Mr. Smartie Pants ].


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Adding negative spacers (reducing negative volume) gives you a faster ramp into the spring-curve and higher ride height for the same pressure.
But it doesn't really change mid-stroke support.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Adding negative spacers (reducing negative volume) gives you a faster ramp into the spring-curve and higher ride height for the same pressure.
> But it doesn't really change mid-stroke support.


Splitting hairs, to add to that, 'faster' is relative here. With a larger volume you'll feel the ramp just as fast with the added support so I'd say 'more instant' for reducing it, to be accurate, which btw is the whole game of suspension design; managing compression and rebound forces at their prime+/&/peak. Anything else is a gimmick.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

_sigh_ More people should buy X-Fusion, we wouldn't be analysing here


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> It says add _*either *_negative or positive prob because a negative will allow less compression under small weight shifts and pedal input[same as stated above by Mr. Smartie Pants ].


ok but i want to DECREASE mid stroke support. 
Sounds like if I was to add a neg spacer, I should also decrease air pressure a tad to get back to 30 % sag and will soften the midstroke. but then may need a pos spacer if bottoms out. Will try today, one neg spacer no pos and a few less psi.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> _sigh_ More people should buy X-Fusion, we wouldn't be analysing here


Ha, I have a Xfusion Vector air and it is great, cant service them at home nobody services them locally anymore and their customer support is horrrendous, you cant talk to them on the phone anymore (well you can call Mad Suspension in Reno but theyre not helpful) and impossible to get the special tools needed for home serviceTo try something different I got a used Topaz in perfect working order for a great price which i can rebuild at home when necessary.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Yes, if you want to decrease mid stroke support, add a couple of end stroke spacers and adjust for sag, maybe add a couple neg spacers too, allows for more pressure reduction when preserving sag. 
Why would you want that though, I have to ask? Just about everyone out there wants more mid stroke support.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> Ha, I have a Xfusion Vector air and it is great, cant service them at home nobody services them locally anymore and their customer support is horrrendous, you cant talk to them on the phone anymore (well you can call Mad Suspension in Reno but theyre not helpful) and impossible to get the special tools needed for home serviceTo try something different I got a used Topaz in perfect working order for a great price which i can rebuild at home when necessary.


Well they did move town from Santa Cruz to guess where - Taiwan - so that kinda sucks.



piciu256 said:


> Yes, if you want to decrease mid stroke support, add a couple of end stroke spacers and adjust for sag, maybe add a couple neg spacers too, allows for more pressure reduction when preserving sag.
> Why would you want that though, I have to ask? Just about everyone out there wants more mid stroke support.


I got my midstroke from main pressure(totally ignored sag and recc. presure came out very suitable and that's what I'd suggest, that is until I opened up the sleeve ports and now run 247 instead of 212psi but the spring behaves like a normal one should).


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

piciu256 said:


> Yes, if you want to decrease mid stroke support, add a couple of end stroke spacers and adjust for sag, maybe add a couple neg spacers too, allows for more pressure reduction when preserving sag.
> Why would you want that though, I have to ask? Just about everyone out there wants more mid stroke support.


My bikes leverage curve already has a ton of mid-stroke support designed in,(banshee rune v2). I think it was designed for more "wallowy" air shocks, seems like the topaz is more linear with more midstroke support built in than others. Its not terrible by any stretch but it can get a bit hung up on certain size hits in rock gardens. I like plushy plushy.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Then in your case I'd pack the negative chamber full of spacers, will give a better result than adding positive spacers, since the latter messes with spring rate and leaves you with a wall of stiffness at the end.
I'd also think of maybe considering another shock, Manitou Mara maybe, it's more antiquated you could say air spring would suit your frame better, also a better overall design imo, more complicated but also better executed, the hanging up you experience may as well be caused by the preloaded rebound stack the Topaz has, just like Monarch and Deluxe.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> Well they did move town from Santa Cruz to guess where - Taiwan - so that kinda sucks.
> 
> 
> I got my midstroke from main pressure(totally ignored sag and recc. presure came out very suitable and that's what I'd suggest, that is until I opened up the sleeve ports and now run 247 instead of 212psi but the spring behaves like a normal one should).


what I could really use is a high speed compression adustment and a way to lower that, which is what your port mod sort of addresses. Might try that. Will drill hole instead of those slots, whaddya think. 2 mm?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

dwyooaj said:


> what I could really use is a high speed compression adustment and a way to lower that, which is what your port mod sort of addresses. Might try that. Will drill hole instead of those slots, whaddya think. 2 mm?


Nah nah nah a hole is too big if you dont have very small drill bits. The port itself is about 0.9mm. To not say very much find a drill bit that fits or just covers the port and make about 12 symmetrical holes _on the same lip where the hole is and not lower._ Have a go on the positive side too then to eliminate the awkward wallowing if youve ever experienced it plus some more midstroke influence. Should be neat then.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Ofc sand with high grade paper later and adjust back to old sag.

More about effect: it will enlarge both effective chambers so if you have a model that fits 3 neg spacers top it out, mine fits 2 so I had to use a bit of rim tape on top, no biggie. But you might like it open on your bike so see for yourself.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Don't obsess about his mod, this shock doesn't have a lot of high speed damping intbhe first place, nevermind if drilling some holes in the air chamber actually does anything, he didn't do any real research or testing and his theory doesn't make any sense.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

The issue addressed here is from user @rollertoaster which claimed that the low speed doesn't blow off into the highspeed well enough, both dwyooaj and I agree and it feels quite off-putting.

I did mention to test this for the positive by compressing unaired shock then sliding sleeve half-way off and compressing with finger over port. Go figure the mechanics for either side of the piston then.
Edit: if you think its a damper issue and not spring-related..... Go buy an X-Fusion shock then let us scientists to it.
Unfortunately or not some corners were cut making this shock but I'm very glad to afford it and make and condone worthy mods.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I already discussed this with you, don't see the point in doing so again, since you didn't understand last time and you keep insisting enlarging those holes gives miraculous achievements, but here we go again, py putting the sleeve halfway on and comparing against no air sleeve, or covering the ports with your finger and comparing against no restriction, you aren't checking if there is any noticeable flow restriction (nevermind if it is large enough to be actually perceived on the bike with a leverage ratio), you are instead comparing a closed air chamber to an open one...
In any case, even if it was worthwhile, even discounting the fact it would be done at the factory, why drill many small holes instead of just making those already present larger? Same result, less fuss, less reduction to structural integrity and the same flow area (remember area is πr^2)
Do some meaningful testing and prove that it actually works, I'll eat my words, but at this point you keep spouting your miraculous solution in this thread as if you were the only expert in the world, without any proof or even theory to back it up.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

piciu256 said:


> I already discussed this with you, don't see the point in doing so again, since you didn't understand last time and you keep insisting enlarging those holes gives miraculous achievements, but here we go again, py putting the sleeve halfway on and comparing against no air sleeve, or covering the ports with your finger and comparing against no restriction, you aren't checking if there is any noticeable flow restriction (nevermind if it is large enough to be actually perceived on the bike with a leverage ratio), you are instead comparing a closed air chamber to an open one...
> In any case, even if it was worthwhile, even discounting the fact it would be done at the factory, why drill many small holes instead of just making those already present larger? Same result, less fuss, less reduction to structural integrity and the same flow area (remember area is πr^2)
> Do some meaningful testing and prove that it actually works, I'll eat my words, but at this point you keep spouting your miraculous solution in this thread as if you were the only expert in the world, without any proof or even theory to back it up.


Because he said he doesnt want to use a small angle grinder, Dremel is better than both to just enlarge the one port and at least add another on the opposite side.

The test is done on your bike - you dont even have the shock neither does dougal and u guys take it that I'm hyping - Yeah I'll hype a controlled shock which is even more controlled. No miracles just science and sticking to the appropriate setting for your weight(please dont tell me about styles and trails). 'For riders by riders' slogan doesnt mean free to tune it however u like it means bash hard thats what we make these for, probably why this thread is so massive.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Dude, just about everyone who wasn't just idly interested by the idea, told you that your theory doesn't check out, but you ignore that and just keep insisting you're right.
I'm not saying the Manitou shock is be all end all, but I did find it much better in every way in the stock form than the RS Monarch it replaced, and the only meaningful way the Topaz differs from the Monarch is the IFP, which in theory lowers stiction, but doesn't do anything about the imo much inferior damping layout, but the biggest problem with this shock is the preloaded rebound stack, which can be relatively easily fixed, but there seems to be just about nobody interested in revalving this shock for whatever reason, while there are hundreds of posts on this topic for the Monarch and Deluxe from Rock Shox 🤷


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Well, no party pooper but, IFP, very different piston, said rebound design(which I find one of the best features of the shock), every comp shim 50%thicker although there are only three but decrease in size in equal increments. Adds up to what I'll keep saying control and more control.
I dont doubt your Manitou at all, you might have it paired to a suitable shock upfront. The biggest behind the scenes factor in which the Monarch compares is pure shaft load

I actually do genuinely expect everyone to understand the theory 🙂 esp. if you've played with the bladder pressure.
At the very least if u dont try it you'll miss on some interesting science without grinding anything. As if sliding a completely cylindrical sleeve two inches down will open Pandora's box.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Dude, please write in a comprehensive manner, I cannot for the life of me understand what comparisons you're trying to make, since you're jumping from subject to subject without finishing the previous one and even stating the subject in the first place...


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Comparing is against biblical law I believe.
You've reacted to just about all my posts since you first replied, dont gas me


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Man growing up in Lwów before my school years was nice, you guys were lucky to have the city in medieval times.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

alex.k said:


> very different piston


 Than what? Monarch? Not really.


alex.k said:


> said rebound design(which I find one of the best features of the shock)


 what about it?


alex.k said:


> every comp shim 50%thicker although there are only three but decrease in size in equal increments


 compared to what? Plus size doesn't matter, it's done this way to increase longevity.


alex.k said:


> Adds up to what I'll keep saying control and more control.


 ???


alex.k said:


> you might have it paired to a suitable shock upfront


 completely irrelevant.


alex.k said:


> The biggest behind the scenes factor in which the Monarch compares is pure shaft load


 ???


alex.k said:


> At the very least if u dont try it you'll miss on some interesting science without grinding anything. As if sliding a completely cylindrical sleeve two inches down will open Pandora's box


 What is there to try? Of course there will be different resistance with and without blocking the transfer port, but it's completely irrelevant to how the shock works.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

I'm just about convinced he is trolling, but cannot quite put my finger on it 🤷


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Mm I wouldnt have DVO selling snake oil


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Most manufacturers are, Manitou included to some extent, it's fueled by uneducated customers unfortunately, so nothing to be done about it realistically.
You definitely are trying to sell snake oil though, why would you do that if no profit is to be gained, I cannot grasp.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Getting pretty boring guys (again).


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

This thread is just about dead already anyway, not much happens here apart from him promoting his "improvements" and a bit of fanboyism over DVO 🤷


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

well today i played with it. Previously had no neg spacers, 1 pos spacer, 233 psi gave me 30% sag. Changed it to 1 neg spacer, no pos spacer, lowered to 226 psi gave me 30% sag and compressing as hard as i could while rolling in the street used 80% of stroke. went for a short after work loop. Immediately obvious was a bit better climbing with less pedal bob, small bump sensitivity didnt take much of a hit. seemed like adding just a touch of low speed compression. on a chunky fast DH, it seemed like the midstroke was a little softer, and it was also clear I need to add a positive spacer.
More testing Wednesday with positive spacer added on a longer ride. I think Ive figured out that its "mid-to-late" midstroke that needs softening up, not "early" midstroke, and the key is adding the negative spacer while also dropping psi-which gets the early stroke kinda back to where it was but softens deeper in


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

Just don't get carried away with adding positive spacers, or you'll get results opposite to what you want, the spring is pretty progressive as is, wouldn't want to create a wall of spring rate on a progressive frame at that.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

piciu256 said:


> Just don't get carried away with adding positive spacers, or you'll get results opposite to what you want, the spring is pretty progressive as is, wouldn't want to create a wall of spring rate on a progressive frame at that.


I know, just adding one, for ramp-up at the very end. Frame is regressive at last 20% of travel.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Got a used Topaz off of a Ripmo to stick on a new Canfield Tilt. Sent it in to DVO for a service and to check the tune. They said all they did was a very small tweak to the rebound.

The Tilt is designed to work with coil or air, so I assume it is fairly progressive. I started with no vol spacers, but it took too much pressure to get even 30% sag so I added one neg spacer, and can achieve 25-30% with what seemed like reasonable pressure able to get near full travel in my driveway. (Still no positive spacers). I have been steadily dropping the pressure over my first couple rides as I am not using as much travel as I think I should be, so sag is getting over 30% but it feels OK. I may try a second neg spacer.

Overall the shock feels great. The 3 way switch is very effective; open is open, middle is noticeably firmer pedaling, but still moves enough for climbing over rocks and roots, and close is near locked out. On my last frame (5-Spot DW link) this switch would be useless as there would be no need to leave the “open” position, but this Tilt does benefit from it.

I don’t know if it is the shock or the suspension design, but other then wanting to flip to the middle “climb” position on occasion, I never even notice the rear suspension on the bike. Seems to be a good fit right off the bat.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> It does firm up the beginning but loosens the middle stroke. Think the initial impact absorbed overwhelms the first tenths of the travel where it is hard and then is quick to compress the middle part with the shaft moving uninterrupted. Oppositely with large negative volume the impact gets transferred from a soft start to deeper in where it is harder there.


 Today I tested it with a single pos and single neg band and less PSI in main can. Needed 235 PSI with no bands to get 30% sag, with the bands 225 pSI gave me 30% sag and 80% stroke usage when compresssing as hard as i could on the street. The midstroke/square edged hit was softened up a little to where I like it it seems, pedals better, and did not bottom out on the biggest drop. Still good small bump compliance. Your advice to add a neg band was spot on I think as long as its along with a pos band and slight psi drop. Still not sure if I want to try the hole embiggening on the air can sleeve, theres been a lot of complicated discussion about that when the question simply is if that hole is small enough to choke off the air flow between the chambers on high-speed compression or not. if it is slightly, that could be why didnt bottom out on the drop, the fastest compression. i think I dont need to monkey with that now, a few more rides will tell.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

dwyooaj said:


> Ha, I have a Xfusion Vector air and it is great, cant service them at home nobody services them locally anymore and their customer support is horrrendous, you cant talk to them on the phone anymore (well you can call Mad Suspension in Reno but theyre not helpful) and impossible to get the special tools needed for home service. To try something different I got a used Topaz in perfect working order for a great price which i can rebuild at home when necessary.


this starts to slide far off topic, but...

It is somewhat easy to "home service" Vector Air too, I've done it couple of times. Only tricky part is to get the IFP on correct position and to get the main piston and sealhead screwed back in without getting air in. The bleed procedure is somewhat cumbersome but does not require any strange tools. Drop me a PM if you'd like to have instruction for that...


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

alex.k said:


> It does firm up the beginning but loosens the middle stroke. Think the initial impact absorbed overwhelms the first tenths of the travel where it is hard and then is quick to compress the middle part with the shaft moving uninterrupted. Oppositely with large negative volume the impact gets transferred from a soft start to deeper in where it is harder there.
> 
> Veery nice*borat voice*. -BUT climb mode has to be usable


 Found this video on page 13 of this thread: 



Which confirms that adding neg spacer(s) and maybe also pos spacer while decreasing psi to get back to same sag is how to soften midstroke


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> Found this video on page 13 of this thread:
> 
> 
> 
> Which confirms that adding neg spacer(s) and maybe also pos spacer while decreasing psi to get back to same sag is how to soften midstroke


Yes that's right. Negative spacers change the "knee" on the entry to the spring curve. More spacers (less neg volume) gives you a higher knee which is firmer initial spring-rate and less sag.
If you drop the pressure to get the same sag you have a softer mid-stroke.

Positive spacers can be looked at separately to change end-stroke progression.


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## kbecker (Jul 7, 2020)

I'm sorry if this has been covered - but will riding the topaz with low bladder pressure ruin the shock? For example if I let it sit for a while and forget to air up the reservoir for a ride or two.


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

It might, but I don't think it's very harmful in the short term.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Hi again everyone,
I didn't want to post until I got to ride the trail which caused the spring to feel firm on HS but yesterday I removed the neg spacers which completely filled the chamber, from max to min after the enlargement procedure and wanted to make a few points for the heavier riders which run high pressures anyway.

Firstly the bike climbs like a goat up chutes due to the effective neg chamber increased and the added midstroke. Nothing new here but the effect is quite pronounced.
For the same reason, although pushing with hands on the saddle when switch is closed feels softer off the top, after sag the spring is much firmer and ride height is taller, _and_, thus, the best part which had me mad for a long time before was that on pedalling you can now really maintain propulsion whereas with the tiny port/max volume it rode like a pig, to use the most common expression.

-As for high speed I suppose I'll have to experiment on trail which I'm not keen on doing but at least my main goal of making it more springy worked out and the feeling of vague HSR isn't noticable.



dwyooaj said:


> Today I tested it with a single pos and single neg band and less PSI in main can. Needed 235 PSI with no bands to get 30% sag, with the bands 225 pSI gave me 30% sag and 80% stroke usage when compresssing as hard as i could on the street. The midstroke/square edged hit was softened up a little to where I like it it seems, pedals better, and did not bottom out on the biggest drop. Still good small bump compliance. Your advice to add a neg band was spot on I think as long as its along with a pos band and slight psi drop. Still not sure if I want to try the hole embiggening on the air can sleeve, theres been a lot of complicated discussion about that when the question simply is if that hole is small enough to choke off the air flow between the chambers on high-speed compression or not. if it is slightly, that could be why didnt bottom out on the drop, the fastest compression. i think I dont need to monkey with that now, a few more rides will tell.


I'd just keep the bladder at 185* with the neg spacer and your usual sag then. I weigh about the same as you.
*Edit: 190's fine.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

This is the shape of my curve as of now at the same pressure so I will give an early verdict that forces are dissipated less readily and the rider's weight doesn't sphincterate at his legs. By precise terms, the amount of time during which the rider's weight force matches that of the spring is reduced.

'less' because air flow is multidynamic. Readily implies immediately, or extensionally immediate if you will. So the aim is for a balance between the bike doing work and stability - here these are one while support vs comfort are opposites.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Hi again everyone,
> I didn't want to post until I got to ride the trail which caused the spring to feel firm on HS but yesterday I removed the neg spacers which completely filled the chamber, from max to min after the enlargement procedure and wanted to make a few points for the heavier riders which run high pressures anyway.
> 
> Firstly the bike climbs like a goat up chutes due to the effective neg chamber increased and the added midstroke. Nothing new here but the effect is quite pronounced.
> ...


Have you increased pressure with your increased negative volume?
Because it's the increased pressure that actually gives you more mid-stroke support.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Only some 8psi which I've had once before too with the volume full.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

The pressure bump was needed after the positive port mod, about 35psi extra and there wasnt any effect on mid support, definitely not like now.
Edit, No my bad, after both ports and mostly the negative but with volume full or empty I varied pressure by no more than 8psi so not really for discussion


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Ou looks like piciu128 is hungry again. Let me break it down further

Positive port as stock caused a lack of back-pressure at endstroke so the shaft was lazy to retreat. Traction was hence compromised, simply put. After adding the channels on the sleeve, the endstroke was reduced and adding half the volume worth of spacers for the same pressure(and same sag point along with the entire spring curve) brought it back to your adjustments. About 10 psi over stock was needed

Negative volume channels caused a good amount of extra sagging - about 35 psi more was needed. Maxing out spacers completely was similar to having 2 DVO spacers because effective volume was increased. The piston with this config gave a stable ride height(oppositely large neg volume also means the piston retreats slow & not fully). With max volume/min spacers you get the great support I mentioned plus coil-like plushness and hypothetically combined with eliminating the positive port relieves harsh loading on the pedals. DVO designed it like it is as a very effective and clever control function. The piston moves as if there's suction between the piston and both ends of the aircan.

Overall very little control was compromised due to the firm rebound profile and bladder reservoir present.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Ou looks like piciu128 is hungry again. Let me break it down further
> 
> Positive port as stock caused a lack of back-pressure at endstroke so the shaft was lazy to retreat. Traction was hence compromised, simply put. After adding the channels on the sleeve, the endstroke was reduced and adding half the volume worth of spacers for the same pressure(and same sag point along with the entire spring curve) brought it back to your adjustments. About 10 psi over stock was needed
> 
> ...


If you had a more scientific method of testing your mods. You would find they aren't doing what you think they are.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

It's just one mod really. How do you know if I'm clairvoyant or not. Maybe you're sick of hearing industry terms, so am I


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

You can get the world's fastest computer to carry out a calculation but if the software isn't tethered to real time action then all you'll get is a monkey poke. Even that you can decipher yourself instead of relying on data


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## piciu256 (Feb 15, 2019)

The thing, even a monkey with basic understanding of physics could tell you that the conclusions you made are mostly just wrong, nevermind someone with deeper understanding of suspension works, but you're so convinced it's the bunch of holes that changed the feel of the shock, not the change of pressure and/ or riding style, or just plain placebo, really, Im mostly convinced that you're just trolling at this point, that's why I limit myself to "reacting" to your posts, instead of bothering with replying. That said, here you go, got another post in this mostly dead thread 🤷‍♂️


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

So what do the holes do, again?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Woa there it is again. You mistook my flow and focused objectively on my writings as if they're some sort of official statement. Anyway take it as you will I'd never pressure anyone like a pastor, which is kind of the whole point.

More on the HS profile, it was mentioned that there's a shelf over the main stack that prevents them opening fully/warping beyond elasticity. I believe this cannot affect the HSC but I'm not gonna go into how that correlates.

Kapusta means cabbage in Slavic. Háh good question kapusta


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> You can get the world's fastest computer to carry out a calculation but if the software isn't tethered to real time action then all you'll get is a monkey poke. Even that you can decipher yourself instead of relying on data


That's why I've run empty air shocks on my dyno and have a computerised spring tester. It takes the placebo effect out of rear shock air-can tweaks.

Compression speeds are roughly 3x rebound speeds. You can't have an airflow problem on rebound and not have a bigger problem on compression. Mid to end stroke is dependent on main pressure and volume. Negative air affects the start of the stroke. You increase negative volume and you make the shock sag more with the same air pressure.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

I noticed that I was hyper-conscious when I specifically mentioned endstroke and lazy return but I didnt correct it for standards' sake. By backpressure I mean constant backpressure as long as the shock is compressing, static build ups or skimming over surfaces off-course makes little difference because port is equalized for the most part where there's no disturbance. Compression and rebound at endstroke are dictated by the same pressure differential at the tiny sleeve port(did I mention it's less than 0.9mm? For new readers) - behold a DVO airshock then.
Its logical that more traction is provided and you have a better connection with the ground with a mono chamber.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Pick your poison carefully kids. Some folks have empirical data to support their conclusions about very intricate systems, for some, seat of the pants seems to suffice. That said, do your due diligence before performing mods to your pricey suspension components while realizing you do so at your own risk. Play nice.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Here's a pic of the steed for stokes and niggles. As you can tell the shock has quite large volume compared to its peers, another reason to buy it.


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## needbb (Jul 26, 2021)

Does anyone know where to pickup the 2.5mm travel spacer? On DVO's website they are all out of stock (Travel Spacer Topaz – DVO Suspension) and without the spacer the shock is slightly hitting the frame on my Trek Fuel.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Does anyone know if there's a large volume air sleeve or air can available for the Topaz 3? Any chance the Topaz 2 air sleeve would fit? I tried emailing DVO to ask them but haven't heard back (which is unusual for them).


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## ridetheridge (Mar 7, 2009)

bad mechanic said:


> Does anyone know if there's a large volume air sleeve or air can available for the Topaz 3? Any chance the Topaz 2 air sleeve would fit? I tried emailing DVO to ask them but haven't heard back (which is unusual for them).


Call them. They almost always answer the phone.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

bad mechanic said:


> Does anyone know if there's a large volume air sleeve or air can available for the Topaz 3? Any chance the Topaz 2 air sleeve would fit? I tried emailing DVO to ask them but haven't heard back (which is unusual for them).


I’ve been curious about that as well.


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

bad mechanic said:


> Does anyone know if there's a large volume air sleeve or air can available for the Topaz 3? Any chance the Topaz 2 air sleeve would fit? I tried emailing DVO to ask them but haven't heard back (which is unusual for them).


If I remember correctly, DVO told me that I can use the HV air can on topaz3 before however they don't have stock of those to sell me any to try. Would be interested in the result too. Thou I'm already running the Jade X.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

jpjp18 said:


> If I remember correctly, DVO told me that I can use the HV air can on topaz3 before however they don't have stock of those to sell me any to try. Would be interested in the result too. Thou I'm already running the Jade X.


last time I spoke to them most of the older stuff is out of stock, but all of the new stuff is coming in thick and fast


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Back to my first post about oils - I've had Rock Oil SVI 5wt+7.5wt after trying LikeWater. Viscosity twice of what DVO recommend and half of what Mike D. of X-Fusion recommends for all their shocks; that being Torco RSF Medium.
Now going back to a mix of the Rock Oil and LikeWater, the latter for most part and a high res. pressure goes unnoticed underneath you unlike when I was testing the Rock Oil, 'bout [email protected]
To anyone having to use over 185 in the bladder I'd suggest Red Line Extralight 2.5wt.
This was suggested already at the beginning of the thread


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Stock DVO oil is 16 cSt. I've measured it.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Good to know.

Over 16 is quite thick for the rebound, on top of stock and the LikeWater on factory rebuilds I guess they suggest light oils to everyone. I read about Ronnie telling a fairly average rider to go 12cS IIRC so I really wanted to test that middle ground. SVI ~6.5wt doesn't suit it much, except the colour which was green.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Good to know.
> 
> Over 16 is quite thick for the rebound, on top of stock and the LikeWater on factory rebuilds I guess they suggest light oils to everyone. I read about Ronnie telling a fairly average rider to go 12cS IIRC so I really wanted to test that middle ground. SVI ~6.5wt doesn't suit it much, except the colour which was green.


Oil viscosity does very little on a shim-stack shock unless it's too thick. Shims react to pressure and viscosity effects are limited to your bypass needles.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> Oil viscosity does very little on a shim-stack shock unless it's too thick. Shims react to pressure and viscosity effects are limited to your bypass needles.


Was kinda testing you. I've heard from you once that rebound can be effected by viscosity because of the orifices that circuits can be designed with, that makes sense.
As for feel I think there's more to it and the shape of the rubber bladder plays role.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Was kinda testing you. I've heard from you once that rebound can be effected by viscosity because of the orifices that circuits can be designed with, that makes sense.
> As for feel I think there's more to it and the shape of the rubber bladder plays role.


You're not testing me. You're testing everyone who reads this..............

Bladder does not give a damn about viscosity.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

This is the first shock I’ve owned that let me play with the negative chamber. Its taken a bit of trial and error to see what the changes actually feel like in the trail, but it has been really useful on my Canfield Tilt.

With no neg spacers, it was immediately apparent that it took way too much pressure to not have the rear end sag too far into the travel.

Stuck one in and it felt better, and I rode it like that for a few months. It felt great, but still was sagging pretty far (i’d guess 35%?) and I always felt like it was just a tad too slacked out on climbs.

I recently decided to try a second neg vol spacer. Ran same pressure. It did a good job of keeping the rear end a little higher in the travel, but performs otherwise pretty much the same. It is a little firmer off the top, but that has not had any of the negative consequences on the trail I was expecting and had kept me from trying this earlier.

I’m running no positive vol spacers.

Anyway, all this to say: don’t be afraid to play with those negative vol spacers. I knew in theory what they would do, but going for a ride surprised me how it actually felt.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Gonna drop this piece of advice for setting shocks up given by Eminent which is spot on for me atm. Rider weight +30psi, which they say is for being 'in the ballpark' but its sure something from a mechanical engineer, finally, around here.

As for the bladder and viscosity I guess we're not all streamlined if you catch the direct reference.
Never thought I'd have to use the most basic, first-learned in primary and so easy scientific word to describe such a subtlety.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

kapusta said:


> This is the first shock I’ve owned that let me play with the negative chamber. Its taken a bit of trial and error to see what the changes actually feel like in the trail, but it has been really useful on my Canfield Tilt.
> 
> With no neg spacers, it was immediately apparent that it took way too much pressure to not have the rear end sag too far into the travel.
> 
> ...


I've got one on a 38lb Specialized Levo SL expert carbon 2021 ebike. And my issue is about the same except the only way to use most of the travel is to run very low pressure (130 psi), all the neg. volume spacers and I still often have 10-12mm of shock travel left out of 52.5mm. I'm very light at 150 total weight and probably not aggressive enough. It came with a DPX2 and I did not have that issue and might just go back to that setup. Someone at DVO said I could run 150psi in the bladder and have even tried that. Maybe it's just not the right shock for the Specialized linkage geometry?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

My bike's FSR type too and was alright when I was 170lbs, it does have a little to do with it if comparing linkage types but looking at your model it's at the ends of what FSR does good. Most likely it's because ebike weighs a portion of your weight so it stays put. Bump bladder to 183 and rear tyre ..ahhem, sorry tire* pressure up by as much as you're okay with and leave it as it was when u set it up firstly because it's good imo.
Also due to the nature of negative volume and impulses I'd take a negative out if I weighed at the lower end of the industrial performing range of shocks and bikes.


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

alex.k said:


> My bike's FSR type too and was alright when I was 170lbs, it does have a little to do with it if comparing linkage types but looking at your model it's at the ends of what FSR does good. Most likely it's because ebike weighs a portion of your weight so it stays put. Bump bladder to 183 and rear tyre ..ahhem, sorry tire* pressure up by as much as you're okay with and leave it as it was when u set it up firstly because it's good imo.
> Also due to the nature of negative volume and impulses I'd take a negative out if I weighed at the lower end of the industrial performing range of shocks and bikes.


Yes I am running zero negative or positive volume spacers right now and 150 psi in the shock and 170 psi in the bladder. I ran this shock on a 2018 Focus Jam2 45 lb ebike which is progressive at the beginning and digressive at the end and never could use the last 10 mm of travel even with the biggest hits. I thought this linkage would more easily use more of the travel. And even when they tested the bike with dpx2 the reviewers said most riders will want to add a larger volume spacer to that shock. I did find the dpx2 to be about perfect for my weight and maybe only a bit harsher than the DVO but the DVO is also about 100g lighter than the dpx2. I was after the very lightest ebike I could have instead of the most powerful and found the SL to have enough power for me but 7 lbs lighter with the CF wheels, frame, bars, x01 cassette, etc. The Focus, while a very light ebike, was not as playful as this much lighter bike is. I'm 73 so lifting this lighter ebike onto my car rack is a lot easier too. lol. Oh I run 22 psi in the rear tire now.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

'Tell you what - fill it with positive spacers for the moment. Where on the DVO logo does the sag indicator show?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Bikeradar Turbo Levo reviewer claiming its the best bike they've tried states: '_Second, it has a linearly progressive leverage rate. This makes it more resistant to bottoming out the deeper into the travel it is._' This is what gives Spesh and Whyte the character they have but specialised took it to maximum since they know their target audience will be running 30ish percent sag which is silly imo. Whereas Whyte finess it for speed and control. I feel you for knowingly or not wanting the best bike there is and I'm glad if I can help match the Topaz to it which is very suitable, or with a Whyte it is at least.
- To the point, if I had a Levo, weighing 150, having experience and understanding of FSR I would buy offset bearings and move the top mount to the right perpendicularly to the length of the shock so it's flatter, that should give some noticable effect. On top of that I would set the shock volume closer to the stock one's. Then match sag to the first number that you liked when setting up, ignoring travel used for a half dozen rides.
Another tip I can give you is drop your chest when riding to the point where it's kinda tiring


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

alex.k said:


> 'Tell you what - fill it with positive spacers for the moment. Where on the DVO logo does the sag indicator show?


With 150 psi and two negative spacers it was right at the bottom of the logo or about 30% which is my target. I took both spacers out and lowered the pressure to 140 psig to get closer to using more of the travel but still would not use that last 10 mm and more pedal strikes since sag was beyond 30%. I did try positive volume spacers and while midrange support was probably better, I think I only used about 35-40mm of the 52.5mm of travel. That last 2.5mm is mostly bump stop and so I generally would consider 50mm to be the max. If I came back from a harder ride with lots of drops and harder hits with 45mm of travel used I would consider that just perfect. In the beginning I thought that the negative spacers would get me lower pressure and more travel but theory has not exactly equalled real world results so far. I have considered sending it back for a custom tune. Ronnie at DVO at one time said don't worry about that last 10mm of shock travel but seems like unless I start doing some really risky (at my age) jumping I will never use that.

I have my 2021 Lyrik Ultimate at the front and it was not this difficult to set up and a bit more plush than the Fox 36 Grip2 that came on the bike stock. The Fox was not that bad and comparable to the Lyrik but the Lyrik had a slight edge in weight and comfort.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

sdcoffeeroaster said:


> I've got one on a 38lb Specialized Levo SL expert carbon 2021 ebike. And my issue is about the same except the only way to use most of the travel is to run very low pressure (130 psi), all the neg. volume spacers and I still often have 10-12mm of shock travel left out of 52.5mm. I'm very light at 150 total weight and probably not aggressive enough. It came with a DPX2 and I did not have that issue and might just go back to that setup. Someone at DVO said I could run 150psi in the bladder and have even tried that. Maybe it's just not the right shock for the Specialized linkage geometry?


My apologies if you already know this but….

Are you actually measuring from the seal to the o-ring, or looking at how far the o-ring is from the end of the shaft? Because on mine, full bottom out (full travel) is a good 10mm from the end of the shaft.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

alex.k said:


> Gonna drop this piece of advice for setting shocks up given by Eminent which is spot on for me atm. Rider weight +30psi, which they say is for being 'in the ballpark' but its sure something from a mechanical engineer, finally, around here.


Not even remotely close to ballpark for me. I’m 175 without gear. I’m running 165. So, body weight -10psi.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

kapusta said:


> This is the first shock I’ve owned that let me play with the negative chamber. Its taken a bit of trial and error to see what the changes actually feel like in the trail, but it has been really useful on my Canfield Tilt.
> 
> With no neg spacers, it was immediately apparent that it took way too much pressure to not have the rear end sag too far into the travel.
> 
> ...


I had a very similar experience with this shock on my Kona Process 134. It was actually a little to active on small bump compliance for my liking, and I was also looking to have the bike sit up a little higher in the travel. One negative volume spacer did exactly what it was supposed to do. I love this shock!


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

@sdcoffeeroaster Thats how it's meant to ride then, hard chargers use less travel than hobbyists because we set to mash if I can include myself. A lot of people and professionals in the past had a very hard time trying to make their bike ride like yours, now they come out the box this way. Congrats dude you got a good bike, dont find it strange because older bikes are different. I agree with Ronnie. I hardly use lots of travel but when pushed awkwardly hard I have a nice soft curve at the last 2/5ths so its not hitting a wall but hard to reach the very end.
The more u get used to it the more you'll realise, especially if you didnt come off a hardtail otherwise you would know already, just drop your weight on it. Weight is the reason it stays in the middle of its travel.


kapusta said:


> Not even remotely close to ballpark for me. I’m 175 without gear. I’m running 165. So, body weight -10psi.


Its for their bikes I suppose but with the port mod and both chambers filled to recompense it was suitable. They're another brand with linearly progressive or low response ratio kinematics


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## sdcoffeeroaster (Sep 10, 2017)

kapusta said:


> My apologies if you already know this but….
> 
> Are you actually measuring from the seal to the o-ring, or looking at how far the o-ring is from the end of the shaft? Because on mine, full bottom out (full travel) is a good 10mm from the end of the shaft.


Yes thanks I do know that. I'm measuring the actual travel from topped out to where the o-ring ends up after a ride.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

the DVO igus bushings seem to be sold out everywhere, does anyone know if the fox ones are compatible?
bushings


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> the DVO igus bushings seem to be sold out everywhere, does anyone know if the fox ones are compatible?
> bushings


Yeah they are, even fit a little less tight than on fox bores so hardware isn't jammed. In the meanwhile I'd still try to get igus cause they just slide better, esp. if ur shock turns on both ends.


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## tomstir (Mar 9, 2020)

Any one have the main seal or dust seal wear out? The last two times after riding I noticed a film on the shaft. It was more visible on the logo....kind of had a blackish sheen to it. Felt like smeared rubber. Very thin, I could wipe it away without much effort. Thinking the seals are fading. No pressure loss. Maybe time for a rebuild!!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

tomstir said:


> Any one have the main seal or dust seal wear out? The last two times after riding I noticed a film on the shaft. It was more visible on the logo....kind of had a blackish sheen to it. Felt like smeared rubber. Very thin, I could wipe it away without much effort. Thinking the seals are fading. No pressure loss. Maybe time for a rebuild!!


The seal replacement is about a one beer job. It's remarkably easy. I do it annually as regular maintenance.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Some last remarks I'd like to make about the Topaz is that in general it's a very adaptable damper. In the sense that you can get it to feel the way you want it along with the sum of your chosen parts(yeah and frame.. w/e).
Did extensive experimentation to arrive here and can say the advertising hype about adjustability like the sort we got from Pinkbike goes some way, actually.
Soft front tire or stout frame or variable leverage links, the rowdier the parts you add the more the topaz brings them out and gives the character you want when you add that bladder pressure or spacers and especially when adding rebound which scales nicely. You can even set it as if the bike is a hardtail because it never gives way while you forget about comfort.
You can take the time to set it to what u want by making many variables but if u want to set and forget its gonna need components of equal caliber so I would stick to the enduro/AM spec if you dont wanna experiment. And finally don't forget to shim the climb switch hard, throw a couple of 0.3 shims(not suspension specific) in there - stack them at the top.

Dont like ending on a technical but if you've experienced cavitation as an overweight rider where after the ride the shock slurps oil then add negative chamber spacers to slow down initial shaft speed, this is a direct fix. That's after you bled it ofc, in my case I had to at 100kg, bladder showed 300psi after what happened. Someone said this is the Topaz' Achilles' heel, because of side load, not specifically cavitation due to oil pressure diff. but a humble student can tell you it's both oil diff and air through shaft sides. 
If you're overweight maybe dont take out negative spacers if you have them.
I guess '22 models won't have this


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## tomstir (Mar 9, 2020)

"And finally don't forget to shim the climb switch hard, throw a couple of 0.3 shims(not suspension specific) in there - stack them at the top."

What exactly does that mean? What is required?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

tomstir said:


> "And finally don't forget to shim the climb switch hard, throw a couple of 0.3 shims(not suspension specific) in there - stack them at the top."
> 
> What exactly does that mean? What is required?


The shims of the compression circuit by the reservoir are 8×15mm ID/OD and 0.1 thick. Adding more 0.1mm shims doesn't really make the lockout much harder. I found some 0.3mm shims sold by RealWorldCycling*, the place where they sell all the fancy needle bearings for shocks, which were for shimming bearings or smth.
So I started with one 0.3 then added another, plus one or two more 0.1 shims which ought'a barely make a difference after the two thick ones. Half the point being, it's not possible to lock it out fully.
You best place the thick/inelastic shims on top of the stack so if they deform the others still work. Mine still looked good after some time.
*Website is enduroforkseals.com, they're 2$ for a pair


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> The shims of the compression circuit by the reservoir are 8×15mm ID/OD and 0.1 thick. Adding more 0.1mm shims doesn't really make the lockout much harder. I found some 0.3mm shims sold by RealWorldCycling*, the place where they sell all the fancy needle bearings for shocks, which were for shimming bearings or smth.
> So I started with one 0.3 then added another, plus one or two more 0.1 shims which ought'a barely make a difference after the two thick ones. Half the point being, it's not possible to lock it out fully.
> You best place the thick/inelastic shims on top of the stack so if they deform the others still work. Mine still looked good after some time.
> *Website is enduroforkseals.com, they're 2$ for a pair


The lockout on these already has over 100kg force. Trying to make it rock hard will generate insane internal pressures and damage the shock if you hit anything with the lockout on.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> The lockout on these already has over 100kg force. Trying to make it rock hard will generate insane internal pressures and damage the shock if you hit anything with the lockout on.


I see you've still yet to ride it.

Climb switch on, HSC gives in every time, with stock shims, 0.3, and combined. They only affect LSC drastically. HSC too obviously as your dyno might have recorded but to a certain degree. Still bobs when pedalling so let me coin it as 'static pressure' or plainly, linear compression. There's plenty of flexibility on bumps, endo landings and the rest.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Davide said:


> I mean reducing the size of the two 15x6x0.2mm shims, or removing one?
> View attachment 1350749


Here's the piston(not really a piston) if you can make good of it
The two left shims cover compression if you forgot


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

alex.k said:


> I see you've still yet to ride it.
> 
> Climb switch on, HSC gives in every time, with stock shims, 0.3, and combined. They only affect LSC drastically. HSC too obviously as your dyno might have recorded but to a certain degree. Still bobs when pedalling so let me coin it as 'static pressure' or plainly, linear compression. There's plenty of flexibility on bumps, endo landings and the rest.


You need to bleed the shock better if it's soft on lockout. You will destroy a shock with a lockout stack that firm.

Stock it's ~87kg lockout force from zero, over 100kg force at 0.1m/s and keeps climbing.

100kg lockout force on that shock is well over 1000psi internal fluid pressure. But you've gone even higher!


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Dougal said:


> You need to bleed the shock better if it's soft on lockout. You will destroy a shock with a lockout stack that firm.
> 
> Stock it's ~87kg lockout force from zero, over 100kg force at 0.1m/s and keeps climbing.
> 
> 100kg lockout force on that shock is well over 1000psi internal fluid pressure. But you've gone even higher!


I'm guessing the person that's taking a dremel to their air can isn't too concerned about the longevity of his equipment. But also a fair guess that they're not getting a good bleed if their cable routing job is indicative of their mech skills.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

I would think so myself.. and I did in the beginning.. and you're right.
_Enter impulse_ - makes sense now
Cool story bro
Sorry dude not in the mood.

When I spoke to DVO, Ronnie said it's impossible to fully lock it out after I mentioned a 0.5mm shim(measured the other one 0.3 later). Also said that they're making a new, larger lockout port needle(just before the jade x released) and told me I can get one, I passed. 
I saw a second port on the side of the ressy where the shock body connects last week when I bled it, not sure if all similar shocks have that but might explain something. As I said weight shifts on a standstill cause compression as well as kapows and kabooms


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> I'm guessing the person that's taking a dremel to their air can isn't too concerned about the longevity of his equipment. But also a fair guess that they're not getting a good bleed if their *cable routing job* is indicative of their mech skills.


Only the classics.
*Just seen my pic again from before, it's out like that because I dropped the post for a full enduro pose, I pull it up when riding fully dropped and it's straight. The port on the seat tube isn't so elegant though but I had enough trouble breaking in all the bearings to get it rolling fast so I'm indifferent to most things
P.S. rip my xfusion, had the skills to install the damper in a 34


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Dougal said:


> You need to bleed the shock better if it's soft on lockout. You will destroy a shock with a lockout stack that firm.
> 
> Stock it's ~87kg lockout force from zero, over 100kg force at 0.1m/s and keeps climbing.
> 
> 100kg lockout force on that shock is well over 1000psi internal fluid pressure. But you've gone even higher!


Adding one shim I measured 675% firmness increase with the thickness cubed rule, HSC still blows normally even when pushing on the saddle


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

And that's all the issues addressed folks. Tune in next for a DVO dh air shock(Bomber Air)


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

alex.k said:


> And that's all the issues addressed folks. Tune in next for a DVO dh air shock(Bomber Air)


Mate you have lost the plot


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Meh, I know what I buy, nowhere to go from here, even the EXT air shock isn't fundamentally better-made. Some of DVO was once Marzocchi for those not in the know so courtesy follows


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

You guys really can't grasp that I can go on for eternity. Do try for your own ease. I will.
Edit: Here, happy? Short offset and everything too


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

anybody have experience air leak on topaz bladder?

I did a serviced on it and notice when I had my digital shock on the bladder, i can see the psi dropping very slow.
New bladder and nothing seems abnormal during installation and bleeding process.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

I had old bladder that started losing some pressure slowly after long time of use(some 2 years of active riding with it). Lost pressure maybe 5psi per day -pace. I did change oil to fresh and bleed it properly and greased the valve core, but that did not help to this leaking bladder problem. The old bladder looked just like the new one, no visual deterioration. However, changing to new bladder solved this one. 

Have you tested if it leaks with the pump disconnected too? 
I mean, I'd say it is semi-liekely that it is the pump that leaks rather than the bladder...


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

Verttii said:


> I had old bladder that started losing some pressure slowly after long time of use(some 2 years of active riding with it). Lost pressure maybe 5psi per day -pace. I did change oil to fresh and bleed it properly and greased the valve core, but that did not help to this leaking bladder problem. The old bladder looked just like the new one, no visual deterioration. However, changing to new bladder solved this one.
> 
> Have you tested if it leaks with the pump disconnected too?
> I mean, I'd say it is semi-liekely that it is the pump that leaks rather than the bladder...


I suspect so of the pump too as it's my 2nd time warranty on it, the first one had a leak valve, makes me don't trust it 100%. I did put the whole into a water bucket and also spray some soap, no sight of bubble yet. 

I put back my own bladder which seems to hold air better. I wonder is the new bladder a defect, or mis pack by factory, might be the bladder for jade.


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

jpjp18 said:


> anybody have experience air leak on topaz bladder?
> 
> I did a serviced on it and notice when I had my digital shock on the bladder, i can see the psi dropping very slow.
> New bladder and nothing seems abnormal during installation and bleeding process.


Inflate the bladder to your desired PSI
Disconnect and reconnect the pump, and make note of the PSI
Re-inflate it to desired PSI and disconnect the pump
Wait a few hours, connect the pump, and compare the PSI to the prior reading


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## filbike (Mar 15, 2007)

Hi community
Have anybody experienced a damper sealhead failure?
Here's mine after disassemble








I saw this new damper head on sale as spare part.








Do you know if it is compatible with v1 topaz and if it shares the same seals with older head?
thanks for answer.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

jpjp18 said:


> anybody have experience air leak on topaz bladder?
> 
> I did a serviced on it and notice when I had my digital shock on the bladder, i can see the psi dropping very slow.
> New bladder and nothing seems abnormal during installation and bleeding process.


put it under water and see where it’s coming from. Ive seen the new bladder caps are black on some pros bikes now so maybe a running change?


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

filbike said:


> Hi community
> Have anybody experienced a damper sealhead failure?
> Here's mine after disassemble
> View attachment 1999450
> ...


yes all those seal heads failed. The silver one is compatible with all topaz except the new gen 3


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## filbike (Mar 15, 2007)

Jrp103 said:


> yes all those seal heads failed. The silver one is compatible with all topaz except the new gen 3


Thanks jrp I place order for the silver head👍👍👍😊😊😊😊😊


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

slomtbr said:


> Inflate the bladder to your desired PSI
> Disconnect and reconnect the pump, and make note of the PSI
> Re-inflate it to desired PSI and disconnect the pump
> Wait a few hours, connect the pump, and compare the PSI to the prior reading


@jpjp18 instructions say to grease the bladder inside when bleeding. You also have to charge your pump to the pressure you set last before fully screwing it on and it will show the difference, when you disconnnect it there is no air loss, unless you unscrew very slowly and unevenly. With the grease a new bladder normally gives out about 5psi over two weeks average, maybe a bit sooner, I couldnt get it to seal even with silicone/adhesive.


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

alex.k said:


> @jpjp18 instructions say to grease the bladder inside when bleeding. You also have to charge your pump to the pressure you set last before fully screwing it on and it will show the difference, when you disconnnect it there is no air loss, unless you unscrew very slowly and unevenly. With the grease a new bladder normally gives out about 5psi over two weeks average, maybe a bit sooner, I couldnt get it to seal even with silicone/adhesive.


Could there be deformation of the reservoir body, or damage to the interface between it and the bladder?
Finding spare parts was easy, but I don't see reservoir bodies for sale anywhere.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

slomtbr said:


> Could there be deformation of the reservoir body, or damage to the interface between it and the bladder?
> Finding spare parts was easy, but I don't see reservoir bodies for sale anywhere.


Deformation unlikely though even if there was a heavy scratch the bladder baloons up against the sides with great resistance and even still the top of the bladder is quite far up and sits tugged in so to speak.
What happened to me was that there was a lot of suction at some step in the bleeding process(basically I installed it compressed thinking I'll pump it open as a better way) and when I removed it the centre overlapped the pointy valve end inside and got punctured, something completely different but here you go.

It's just the tolerances so no special tools are required for a rebuild I suppose, I mean look at the design, it's plenty impressive as it is


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

I've just rebleed and set everything back up,
It seems fine now, I connect pump and remove, connect back to check it left around 130+- psi.Did the same and leave it for a day or two, checked back it's 130-+psi. I guess there's no apparent leak going on now.

But still can't explain why my digitial pump show psi dropping when I leave it connected.
I don't have any oil leak like what others usually have with problem from the bladder. 

Perhaps it's all good now, hopefully.

Btw, the latest manual shows no longer required to grease the bladder but I did so anyway and my bladder does have bit warp but doesn't affect of the sealing same as mentioned by Alex.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

jpjp18 said:


> I've just rebleed and set everything back up,
> It seems fine now, I connect pump and remove, connect back to check it left around 130+- psi.Did the same and leave it for a day or two, checked back it's 130-+psi. I guess there's no apparent leak going on now.
> 
> But still can't explain why my digitial pump show psi dropping when I leave it connected.
> ...


there is a huge batch of bladders that are not the right thickness so DVO fitted a bunch of orings to the air cap grove or better yet get one of the new 2022 black bladder caps. Grease will only help for a short period of time as a air gap. It’s intended purpose was to make sure everything assembled smoothly


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

i see, I did have a new bladder but it seems to leak around the edge of the air cap. I suspect a qc problem. Didn't expect it really is. 

I end up using the original warped bladder.


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## Turbotech (4 mo ago)

Hello all

new ripmo af owner with the topaz. I’m 235lbs geared up and running around 240-250 in the main air can with 3 pos spacers and zero negative. Im finding the ibis spec traction tune to be very light on the rebound. Im at full closed or one out from full closed on most trails I’m riding and it’s still quite fast. 

I spoke with Dvo about sending it in for a custom tune and may do so if I can’t find the info I need. 

From reading the service manual and watching vids online I feel confident I can do it myself and would like to build skill in rebuilding shocks.
Does anyone have any info on what shims need to added to the rebound stack to give what I need, and also a source to buy the shims from?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Turbotech said:


> Hello all
> 
> new ripmo af owner with the topaz. I’m 235lbs geared up and running around 240-250 in the main air can with 3 pos spacers and zero negative. Im finding the ibis spec traction tune to be very light on the rebound. Im at full closed or one out from full closed on most trails I’m riding and it’s still quite fast.
> 
> ...


Double the stock shims on compression and rebound.


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## Turbotech (4 mo ago)

So every shim in each position of the stack, just put two in each position? Any source on where to get shims from? 
thanks.


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## Turbotech (4 mo ago)

I’ve found a bunch of sources online. Just need to open it up and measure or someone give me the sizes to order.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Turbotech said:


> Hello all
> 
> new ripmo af owner with the topaz. I’m 235lbs geared up and running around 240-250 in the main air can with 3 pos spacers and zero negative. Im finding the ibis spec traction tune to be very light on the rebound. Im at full closed or one out from full closed on most trails I’m riding and it’s still quite fast.
> 
> ...


I'm 220lbs with 250 in the air can. Filled it with 22-24ctS oil which helped; I recommend staying on the stock dynamic of your tune, which is why I bothered enlarging the sleeve ports after fitting it aftermarket to match the spring of the DPS(its an air spring matter not damping ik but the manufacturer knows better). Try Torco RSF medium&light 5:1.5 ratio. I had heavy oil before and it was funky but I got heavier and now it's not noticeable under my weight.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

better question.. Why is there no mention of spherical bearings anywhere? Yoke linkage loads is the only issue really yet no mention anywhere. Where to find end caps, how to combine them etc

also, I'm marveling at the rebound tune DVO used enchantments to produce. You can cause cavitation from heavy rebound if you crash(dismantle suddenly) deep from the return stroke and they went on to put a heavier tune on the second generation one. A* for quality/price, not being ironic.
anyway, yada-yada covid got me away from the trails for too long now.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Here is; as promised










Topaz light Ibis factory tune vs Bomber aftermarket tune. Bomber apparently more controlled but that is the DVO shims tampered with for the Ripmo. Since it was a back to back test and what we already know of the topaz about sensitivity, the direct takeaway would be that the Bomber Air sits higher in the travel ..almost like a hybrid between DVO aftermarket damping and DPS dynamics*. In this test its clearly stated that it's made very similar to how the Float X is but thats largely irrelevant when you consider the applications of value manufacture.

*Both shocks which I had and tested, and to get the characteristics for my bike's stock rebound tune I got one shim from the rebound stack of Topaz and put it on the compression side[+LSR full closed], while doing the air sleeve port thingy, again to bring the behaviour similar to stock and get good tracking.
Shame it doesn't come in standard sizes.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

alex.k said:


> Here is; as promised
> 
> View attachment 2007378
> 
> ...


What are your rambling on about now?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Well go back a page.. dont act a fool..


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Just received a Topaz gen3, forgot to ask some basic setup questions.... perhaps someone here knows.

Does anyone have a comparison of spring rate/pressures from the first gen to G3? Hopefully run the same pressures/spacers and be done with it?

I despise dicking with setup, and a driveway test rarely tells me anything so any input is appreciated.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> Just received a Topaz gen3, forgot to ask some basic setup questions.... perhaps someone here knows.
> 
> Does anyone have a comparison of spring rate/pressures from the first gen to G3? Hopefully run the same pressures/spacers and be done with it?
> 
> I despise dicking with setup, and a driveway test rarely tells me anything so any input is appreciated.











DVO Topaz Rear Shock: Customer Review


The DVO Topaz Air Shock will have you riding trails like the pros in no time! With multiple points of adjustment, the Topaz can be fine-tuned to perfection to deliver the perfect ride for any rider. In this review, our customer compares his new Topaz with the offerings from Fox and Rockshox...




www.worldwidecyclery.com




This approach is as on point as it was since day 1 of my first gen. Pack neg chamber, max out bladder and set for support. Shouldn't need to touch the lockout shims on the gen3


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

As a personal compliment to everyone; I run 11% sag. Crikey

Neg chamber not fully reduced tho


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

alex.k said:


> As a personal compliment to everyone; I run 11% sag. Crikey
> 
> Neg chamber not fully reduced tho


The review is 1st Gen setup, and you seem to prefer an unorthodox setup- on your 1G… is that somehow related to my question?


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> The review is 1st Gen setup, and you seem to prefer an unorthodox setup- on your 1G… is that somehow related to my question?


I plugged the most popular review of it on google and it remains the most appropriate way to set it up. Its what you asked for.
My setup isnt adressed to that if you bothered noticing
Noticing what? The word 'everyone' and grammatical structure. Also that it wasnt a reply to you.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

And if you or anyone is wondering, yes I do know better. Sh#@ to prove here


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

alex.k said:


> And if you or anyone is wondering, yes I do know better. Sh#@ to prove here


I asked for a comparison in setup between G1 and G3 air springs. 

You're weird.


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

EatsDirt said:


> I asked for a comparison in setup between G1 and G3 air springs.
> 
> You're weird.


Old mates definitely out the gate

ive made the same change in my giant trance ebike and the settings I’m running are basically identical


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Jrp103 said:


> Old mates definitely out the gate
> 
> ive made the same change in my giant trance ebike and the settings I’m running are basically identical


There you go @EatsDirt, even got feedback on the gen 2 air spring. Damping probs a lil different on those


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

Jrp103 said:


> Old mates definitely out the gate
> 
> ive made the same change in my giant trance ebike and the settings I’m running are basically identical


I basically did the same and fortunately never had to touch a thing aside from a little rebound tweak... plug and play.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

Anyone with the new 2022 Gen 3 able to remove their air sleeve without a fuss? It's not easy like the T3/Gen 1. The O-ring is really buried within a bevel of the newly-shaped base of the air can/sleeve, and it can't be pinched or grabbed or lifted away unless I use a metal pick, which I do not want to do.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Interesting...


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## jl87 (2 mo ago)

I had the same issue. Dvo told me to use a flat head screwdriver to pry it. I did so carefully, using a small flat head covered in oil incase.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

jl87 said:


> I had the same issue. Dvo told me to use a flat head screwdriver to pry it. I did so carefully, using a small flat head covered in oil incase.


You managed to not score the anodizing? I'm impressed. I attempted soft objects, like the corner of a credit card, toothpicks, my thumbnails. The O-ring slides slightly a bit, but tightly (air can at 0 psi) with those "tools", but it wouldn't lift out.

Edit: I did have the shock still mounted and perhaps couldn't get the best purchase to pry out the O-ring. Sucks though because a feature of this shock is supposed to be access to the pos. and neg. air chambers while still on the bike.


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## jupitersending (Nov 10, 2021)

I'd probably just use a pick but be careful to put the pointy end in to the rubber ring


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## jpjp18 (Nov 2, 2018)

i did it with using some rubber around my hand to squeeze it out sometimes, spray some alcohol before that too. 

I think the last i used a cut out rubber tube.


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## A. Rider (Jul 25, 2017)

jl87 said:


> I had the same issue. Dvo told me to use a flat head screwdriver to pry it. I did so carefully, using a small flat head covered in oil incase.


I just got the same advice (they responded next day to my email).
"Yes the new ones are a little tight. You can use a small flat head screwdriver to pick it out. This seal only holds the sleeve on and does not seal anything. Hope this helps and thanks for riding DVO!!"


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Welllll, that sucks. Looks like a new damper body is $105 from DVO. Has anyone successfully replaced the damper body and not done a full rebuild? Want to go coil on my Sentinel after I figure out if my frame is out of whack.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Welllll, that sucks. Looks like a new damper body is $105 from DVO. Has anyone successfully replaced the damper body and not done a full rebuild? Want to go coil on my Sentinel after I figure out if my frame is out of whack.


There's no reason you can't replace just the damper body, but that looks like scratching from an object stuck in the air can seal so I would replace those at a minimum.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> There's no reason you can't replace just the damper body, but that looks like scratching from an object stuck in the air can seal so I would replace those at a minimum.


I’ll take a look at it today. Figured it did this because it’s a trunnion shock. They did make the air shaft bigger on the newest Topaz to hopefully combat premature wear


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

I hadda 2nd look.carefully at pic.

Hardly worthy of a new air can nor shaft though keep eye on it in feel as you'll feel when truly is fooked and needs replacing.

Though I would if anal and cause it proper thang to do is remove shock remove can and seal to then inspect and clean with assembly fluid (shock lube )


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Its probably been discussed but the DVO manual specs out 2.5wt shock oil for the damper body but not Maxima, what is the fluid of choice?


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Tinstigator said:


> I hadda 2nd look.carefully at pic.
> 
> Hardly worthy of a new air can nor shaft though keep eye on it in feel as you'll feel when truly is fooked and needs replacing.
> 
> Though I would if anal and cause it proper thang to do is remove shock remove can and seal to then inspect and clean with assembly fluid (shock lube )


The shock still operates fine but I'll pull it apart and see what it looks like inside.


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

I dunno exactly what lube oil to use as I swelled up my dvo sapphire seals using tf tuned fancy stuff used for RS etc kit and took risk and after while created but of a pita stiffy feeling seal 

Eg not plush movement to begin with.

I had them lowers dropped at same time of travel lowered and back schweet as a nut!

👍👍 Try search for DVO fork lube with Motorex in title as iirc it is a type of Motorex  🆗


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Tinstigator said:


> I dunno exactly what lube oil to use as I swelled up my dvo sapphire seals using tf tuned fancy stuff used for RS etc kit and took risk and after while created but of a pita stiffy feeling seal
> 
> Eg not plush movement to begin with.
> 
> ...


Fork fluid same as the fluid used in a rear shock? I thought forks used a thicker oil


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Oh no my baddd just seal fork juice style stuff though fluid is motorex for fork & shock


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## Jrp103 (May 15, 2021)

Rebuild it and flick it off. Those Gen 1 and 2 topaz shocks will al die in a frame that’s not perfect and will just happen again. My reign did this 3 times. Got the new Gen 3 shock in now with the big shaft and long aircan bushings and it’s lasted 4 times longer than the OG topaz ever could


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Jrp103 said:


> Rebuild it and flick it off. Those Gen 1 and 2 topaz shocks will al die in a frame that’s not perfect and will just happen again. My reign did this 3 times. Got the new Gen 3 shock in now with the big shaft and long aircan bushings and it’s lasted 4 times longer than the OG topaz ever could


I checked my frame alignment last night and its spot on. Trunnion mount is just too solid of a mount for these little shocks. The top of the shock won't flex at all like a 2 eyelet shock so the next flexion point is the interface of the shock stanchion and shock body. A lot to ask of it. Good to hear the new Topaz is working out though!


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

So what ya gonna do


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Call SHOCKBUSTERS


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

bdreynolds7 said:


> I checked my frame alignment last night and its spot on. Trunnion mount is just too solid of a mount for these little shocks. The top of the shock won't flex at all like a 2 eyelet shock so the next flexion point is the interface of the shock stanchion and shock body. A lot to ask of it. Good to hear the new Topaz is working out though!


The ”little shock” shouldn’t have a premature wear problem if your frame is spot on and there’s no slop in your rocker.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

Tinstigator said:


> So what ya gonna do


Ride it til I find a deal on a coil shock then fix the Topaz and sell it I think. I pulled the shock apart and there wasn't any dirt in the seal that would cause that kind of wear. I flipped the damper body 180* so in theory I should get another year out of it since that's about how long it took to make those wear marks. 

Actually, come to think of it. I emailed DVO and asked if they'll warranty it. If they will, I'll buy a Jade X then have the Topaz fixed then sell it.


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

EatsDirt said:


> The ”little shock” shouldn’t have a premature wear problem if your frame is spot on and there’s no slop in your rocker.


I am pretty frequently jumping this bike and doing whips/landing sideways which is probably putting massive side loads on the shock, not the norm. I agree though, for normal trail riding, this kind of wear shouldn't happen. Though it is a head scratcher when you think about why DVO increased the air shaft diameter by 27% on the new Topaz. Almost like I am not the only one that has dealt with this issue....


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## Tinstigator (Jun 28, 2016)

Interesting & goood you riding hard tricking - fook the shock if that's what trunnion and small shafts do.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

bdreynolds7 said:


> I am pretty frequently jumping this bike and doing whips/landing sideways which is probably putting massive side loads on the shock, not the norm. I agree though, for normal trail riding, this kind of wear shouldn't happen. Though it is a head scratcher when you think about why DVO increased the air shaft diameter by 27% on the new Topaz. Almost like I am not the only one that has dealt with this issue....


Curious to hear what DVO says. I’m pretty sure the quickest way to kill a shock in a well aligned frame is to have slop in your linkage (rocker main pivot in particular). Perhaps that’s a factor as it sounds like you might be lacking mechanical sympathy?

I guess my point is… it looks to me like your issue is much more then premature wear. 

Anecdotal, but my G1 on a Patrol _with _cracked rocker, stays (replaced) lived through around 2M feet of very hard descending before it was retired… but, everything was well maintained.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Ghost Busters say the only strange thing around here is plastic bikes - rocker links made of charred plastic strands glued together tightly. My headset spacers use those, splendid indeed
FR though some things just aren't ideal when you don't actively shop for what you need, that's why both my current and old alloy frames have the Union Jack on them.
get ye an Eminent and laugh at everyone's struggles


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## bdreynolds7 (Dec 13, 2019)

EatsDirt said:


> Curious to hear what DVO says. I’m pretty sure the quickest way to kill a shock in a well aligned frame is to have slop in your linkage (rocker main pivot in particular). Perhaps that’s a factor as it sounds like you might be lacking mechanical sympathy?
> 
> I guess my point is… it looks to me like your issue is much more then premature wear.
> 
> Anecdotal, but my G1 on a Patrol _with _cracked rocker, stays (replaced) lived through around 2M feet of very hard descending before it was retired… but, everything was well maintained.


Lacking mechanical sympathy lol. DVO did warranty the stanchion. Said they would warranty the body itself too if there was scoring inside but I don’t think they changed that out.


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

Thing is more people need to know that this shock moves as if it's right between a moderate coil and a classic DPS-like air shock. These loose tolerances are the reason it can be the weakest link in a carbon linkage. Carbon is a nope on many different levels come to think of it. Trunnion was the manufacturer's decision and I won't comment on it. Win for the consumer considering its price, or at least not at full rrp


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## alex.k (Feb 12, 2021)

If the damping seems off to you(MTB Telly on youtube has a realistic review, also for DebonAir/Luftkappe which he states that they're not exactly an improvement in terms of control), you can try moving one shim from the rebound stack to the compression stack then crank rebound knob to max.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Any tips for removing the goddang air can? I’m following the directions to unscrew it but all that’s happening is the air sleeve is turning while the air can underneath is not


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

dwyooaj said:


> Any tips for removing the goddang air can? I’m following the directions to unscrew it but all that’s happening is the air sleeve is turning while the air can underneath is not


Remove the outer sleeve first. Go to step 3 first : https://tech.dvosuspension.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/topaz_fullservicev2.pdf


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Do you guys have a way to replace the damper fluid and bleed it without disassembling the damper (only opening the air can and the bladder piggyback)?

Should be possible to drain and fill oil through the piggyback.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

bdreynolds7 said:


> Its probably been discussed but the DVO manual specs out 2.5wt shock oil for the damper body but not Maxima, what is the fluid of choice?


After reading some charts earlier in this thread, it left my head spinning, so I contacted DVO. I called and ordered a 16oz bottle of the stuff they use for $24. Pretty sure it is just a relabeled product that costs half as much, but i am still unclear what that is. 16oz should be enough for many services, so I’m not sweating it.


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

kapusta said:


> After reading some charts earlier in this thread, it left my head spinning, so I contacted DVO. I called and ordered a 16oz bottle of the stuff they use for $24. Pretty sure it is just a relabeled product that costs half as much, but i am still unclear what that is. 16oz should be enough for many services, so I’m not sweating it.


I emailed DVO to confirm first, then used Finish Line 2.5wt Suspension Shock Oil in my shock.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

slomtbr said:


> I emailed DVO to confirm first, then used Finish Line 2.5wt Suspension Shock Oil in my shock.


Oh, well. Looks like they soaked me for an extra $8.


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## Verttii (Aug 20, 2009)

CrozCountry said:


> Do you guys have a way to replace the damper fluid and bleed it without disassembling the damper (only opening the air can and the bladder piggyback)?
> 
> Should be possible to drain and fill oil through the piggyback.


Might be technically possible, but cumbersome. Probably it will be less work eventually to just remove the damper body too, but no need to dismantle further than that (no point in chaning the small static seals in the damper if they aren't leaking). With damper body removed, it is easy to get (almost) all oil out and new oil in. Re-assembly and bleeding is then somewhat easy just following the instruction, just don't put pressure on the bladder before you have completed the bleed and installed back the bleed port screw...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CrozCountry said:


> Do you guys have a way to replace the damper fluid and bleed it without disassembling the damper (only opening the air can and the bladder piggyback)?
> 
> Should be possible to drain and fill oil through the piggyback.


You can suck out maybe 90% of the old fluid and refill without opening a shock. But there's little point. Normally you want to open the shock to flush out all the degraded and contaminated oil. Leaving the last 10% in just discolours and contaminates your new oil.

I only do a partial bleed for basically new shocks that have suffered a leak (curious owner opening a bleed port etc) or to fix a bad factory bleed.

I measured the stock DVO oil at about 17 cSt. Motorex 2.5wt and Maxima 5wt are going to work fine.


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