# Black Market 357



## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

Hey guys, I am currently looking into my first hardtail urban bike  I just called my LBS and told them that I planned to get a 357 and what I got in reaction is that the bike is cheap and may fail shortly. Is this true? I know it is not expensive, but my plan was to ride it until a given part breaks and then replace it with a new and better one. Slowly working my way up too a custom bike. I don't know if he was just trying to talk me into something that he is a dealer of or not, but, he wanted me too look into a norco Dj1. Does anyone have any experience? I am REALLY interested in the 357 and would appreciate ANY feedback anyone has on one. Thank you


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## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

"fail shortly"? Hell no.

One of my coworkers bought a 357 about 2 months ago and WE (as in just about all the guys at the shop) have been riding the crap out've it. I was very pleasantly surprised with the fork (a Marzocchi DJ3) that comes with it. Despite it being their low-end model, it works surprisingly well for the stuff the bike is intended for. Once you progress enough, you'll notice a difference between that and a higher end fork, but if you're just starting out -- it'll be fine. The wheels are pretty solid too. They've seen a lot of abuse thus far and still roll true.

The geometry is perfect for street riding and dirt jumps. Essentially a BMX bike with bigger wheels. And it looks very good! For the money, it's very hard to beat. To seal the deal, Carter (Holland) is a really nice dude to deal with should any problems arise.

Hope this helps. Lately, I've been contemplating selling my hardtail to help fund a full-on DH race bike. If that were to happen and I wanted to buy a complete hardtail, it'd definitely be a 357.


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## dirtjumper202 (May 11, 2007)

I don't own a 357 but some kid at my local trails had one and took it for a ride, it felt great he did have some mods on it but nothing huge just juicy 3 rear brake, eastern cranks, and plastic eastern pedals. For $1000 your getting pretty great frame the geo feels perfect, and rest of bike has some killer parts too.
What would be your price range, what kind of bikes can you get from your LBS, also what do you want to use it for mostly.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

best frame made. i ride one. upgrade parts as you want. your shop probally said that because either they cant get it, or they dont want the hassle of getting one, as shipping is high for you lbs since its from S&M and most of the time its <5 bikes so no incentives. im a manager at a shop that deals with S&M alot btw.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

no, thats BS. the dj1 doesn't even appear to be an 08 model, not listed on norco's site. i'm no mind reader, but i'd guess they are trying to unload a bike off the floor.

the 357 is a riot frame, which is the exact same geo as the mob, just not handmade with reynolds supertherm tubing here in the us. instead, its just straight gauge chromo made in taiwan. were talking a $600 top of the line frame, plus about 4 ounces, minus the art quality welds, minus $200. its an AWESOME frame.

on top of that, the bars, stem, seat, seatpost and sprocket are all blk mrkt. these are kick ass parts that many people use on custom builds. as good as anything from deity or the like. the fsa headset and kenda tires are in the same league as well.

the wheelset is nothing special, but who cares. i just got done building a $3000 bike and i put a $160 wheelset on it. they are probably fine. if you screw them up, you can build a custom wheelset, or you can order up a totally awesome $160 wheelset from p-mart like i did.

the fork sucks. but ya gotta save money somewhere. get the bike, ride it till you demolish the fork or have money for a better one, then get an argyle or something. the brakes suck, but you can get a BB7 for like hondo to upgrade it.


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

I just talked to a bunch of people about it, and its looking like I would be getting a MOB frame. I just recently snapped my Azonic Saber into 3 pieces and I have a bunch of spare parts I could put on it, and only need to spend a few hundred on the fork and what not. What do you guys think?


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

oh no, you wouldn't like one of those. everybody knows, like totally the worst dj/urban frame EVER. ugly, weak, crappy geo, poor quality welds, and that carter guy is a total dueschbag. so's that mondo guy. whatever man, if you wanna go ride a hunk of junk, go for it.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=396763


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

as you can plainly see, the mob is fabricated by complete retards, i know i wouldn't feel safe hucking one of these off a curb.


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

euroford said:


> as you can plainly see, the mob is fabricated by complete retards, i know i wouldn't feel safe hucking one of these off a curb.


Sarcasm? Assuming you don't want me to get teh same frame as you


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

Man I love nice welds. If I didn't have my molly I'd def go for a blkmrkt frame, esp the MOB


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Euroford pretty much nailed it. 

Your LBS is either very ignorant or they just don't want to deal with getting it in - or both.

I have a custom built Riot and I absolutely love it. At the time I was going to get the Mob but figured the small weight difference and slightly different tubing would not matter for my needs. Plus I used the $200 for other parts. 

Now in hind sight I wish I did get the Mob. I may get one in brown and swap everything over and sell the Riot frame. Still mulling it over.... I'll just sent an e-mail to Carter to see if they have one in stock. If so that may push me over the breaking point. I'll find out tomorrow...I am getting in my new Profile rear hub and crank/Ti BB set-up next week so I may just build a whole new ride..

As far as the .357 most of the parts are decent - except the brakes and fork. But you could sell those or ride it until you need to replace something.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Just now got my Mob built the way I want. I love riding it as it feals just like my old s and m next gen dirt bike. The frame I have is one of the 1st run models and if they've made them better then they are _the best_ frame out there IMO.

My build was a slow progresion of what was a complete bike built buy my shops owner. Now with the kore wheels, RS pike fork and gravity cranks the thing feals great.


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

I just won $140 in a raffle!!!!! Going straight to my MOB  What fork should I get if I am on a budget?


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Manitou Sherman. Reduce the travel. It'll run you between 100 and 150 bucks for the fork. Great damping, stout fork, easy to work with.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Argyle is supposed to be a good one. I bought the pike to be able to swap it onto another bike in case of catastrophe. It's nice and light but have been since told the non 454 might have been a better option.

DJ marz. forks can be bought cheap on ebay. Nothing wrong with buying slightly used!


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

They look nice. Is 80 mm ideal travel for an urban rig?


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

ll 3nZo ll said:


> They look nice. Is 80 mm ideal travel for an urban rig?


100mm makes it feel like a mtn bike.
80mm makes it feel like a bmx bike, much more flickable.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> 100mm makes it feel like a mtn bike.
> 80mm makes it feel like a bmx bike, much more flickable.


This depends on what fork you're talking about... Some forks have taller axle to crown height than others... So a 100mm fork of one model may have the same axle to crown height as a 80mm fork of a different model.


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

I seeeeee. Man I have some decisions to make, I am probably going to go with an 80mm though,


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Get an Argyle and lower it to 80mm. Perfect all around fork. A 302 is pretty inexpensive.


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

I am going to have to go with something REALLY crappy until I can save up enough money =( Im thinking something like the Marz DJ3 or DJ2 will hold me over until i can get a new one.


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## briang (Jul 27, 2005)

I am considering purchasing a 357 or Eastern Thunderbird as my first DJ. Any advice on which would be better? The eastern is about $170 cheaper but I don't mind spending the difference if the 357 is that much better.
Thanks!


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

ll 3nZo ll said:


> Sarcasm? Assuming you don't want me to get teh same frame as you


no man, if you got the dough, freekin go-for-it. its a suprub bike, and by buying one your supporting a made in da usa product, so i'm all about encouraging that.

but you seam to be on a bit of a budget. the mob is a bling frame and it would be awfully silly to throw crap parts onto such a nice piece of steel. i would think seriously about your budget and still consider the 357. its -the same- bike essentially.


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

> the mob is a bling frame


 no way! it's the way all frames should be made, here in america!

I'd rather see you buy the mob and slap some parts on it. Atleast then you have a great frame to put your parts on.

On the other hand, if you have to buy the 357 or another bike buy all means please buy the blackmarket! atleast they are trying to keep the american welders working.

But even though the 357 is a riot frame you get the BM stem, bars, seat, and post. Nice stuff.


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

Update guys. It is looking like I am definitely getting a transition trail or park since I can get a major discount on it. Any opinions?


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

Glad someone started this topic. i have been contemplating the eastern or the blk mrkt. being an s&m guy all along i was thinking the blk markt. i got an email from carter down there and he said something could be worked out on getting a parts kit and then getting a mob frame still for $12-1300 your getting a good bike cause if i try to build a custom i will end up in the $2000 area this way i can replace stuff as it breaks!

im a little over 6'1" and cant decide which top tube to go with?right now im riding a large kona stuff and the top tube is def way to long to street ride for me.

is there anywhere in nor-cal that stocks these?

there once upon a time a guy in santa rosa who had them i found him through ebay but of course i cant find his info anymore.

anyone have the link to this p-mart spot to check out some wheels?

thanx


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## rlee560 (Jan 6, 2008)

euroford said:


> no, thats BS. the dj1 doesn't even appear to be an 08 model, not listed on norco's site. i'm no mind reader, but i'd guess they are trying to unload a bike off the floor.
> 
> the 357 is a riot frame, which is the exact same geo as the mob, just not handmade with reynolds supertherm tubing here in the us. instead, its just straight gauge chromo made in taiwan. were talking a $600 top of the line frame, plus about 4 ounces, minus the art quality welds, minus $200. its an AWESOME frame.
> 
> ...


The 357 frame is not a riot frame with different stickers. They are different. I know the headtubes are different. Not sure what else. The underboss stem on the 357 is different than the one they sell alone also.



















The 357 is a great bike. I think they look better than most of custom built bikes I see on the internet. I have never riden one but I would not hesitate to buy one.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

figuring out top tube is going to be a *****. I also rode 21"-21-1/4 on a 21" just not sure if u should get it a little loner on a 26 or stay close to the same.


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## briang (Jul 27, 2005)

Norcaldj,
Where did you talk to that would do a build kit with the mod frame for $1200-1300? Was it direct from S&M? I'm interested in getting one of these but don't feel I need to go all out custom yet. Thanks!
Brian


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I am pretty sure that the 357 IS a Riot frame. At least it is as far as tubing. 

I can see a Mob build at $1,200 - 1,300. After all the 357 is a Riot built up costing around $1,000 and the cost difference is $200 from the Riot to the Mob. So that makes sense.

I owned an 08' Riot and swapped up to an 08' Mob and I noticed a huge difference in handling.


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## rlee560 (Jan 6, 2008)

I can't get the pics to work. The Riot and 357 are NOT the same frame. Same geo. But different.http://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=726&pagenum=123

Scroll down


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

interesting. though perhaps we are just looking at fabrication differences, even some mobs are different then some others. for example, i have an integrated seat clamp on mine, though current models do not have this feature.

but anyways, it doesn't really matter, the riot and 357 have the same geo, same straight gauge cro-mo tubing, same build specs, any other minor difference is really superficial.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Well I stand corrected. As an avid BlkMrkt fan and owner, I had to get to the answer. The 357 frame is made in China and is straight guage tubing. The Riot uses butted tubing. The difference is a good amount of additional weight.

So it appears that the Riot is a slightly better frame.


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

briang said:


> Norcaldj,
> Where did you talk to that would do a build kit with the mod frame for $1200-1300? Was it direct from S&M? I'm interested in getting one of these but don't feel I need to go all out custom yet. Thanks!
> Brian


i actually sent an email to carter ( the owner of blackmarket). that price was a super rough estimate that i had got at the begining of the year. and all he was doing was basically selling me a 357 minus the frame and replacing the frame with a mob frame instead. I almost have all the funds to get one( as soon as i get off my ass and sell my fbm *****in camaro) so i will be able to tell you a price for sure.I heard that complete mobs are right around the corner and i have had second thoughts now that the 24" contraband is soon to come!

anyone have a recommendation for me on tope tube length? and i cant find this p-mart spot everyone has talked about for wheels. thanx!


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

Demo-9 said:


> Well I stand corrected. As an avid BlkMrkt fan and owner, I had to get to the answer. The 357 frame is made in China and is straight guage tubing. The Riot uses butted tubing. The difference is a good amount of additional weight.
> 
> So it appears that the Riot is a slightly better frame.


but isnt the riot made overseas as well???


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

Demo-9 said:


> Well I stand corrected. As an avid BlkMrkt fan and owner, I had to get to the answer. The 357 frame is made in China and is straight guage tubing. The Riot uses butted tubing. The difference is a good amount of additional weight.
> 
> So it appears that the Riot is a slightly better frame.


you and me both. really that would make the riot significantly better. didn't know it was butted!


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## ll 3nZo ll (Feb 15, 2007)

Man I forgot about this thread! Since I made this thread I have gotten an 08' Trail or Park in yellow. I am using a Fox float 32 lowerd to 100 mm. I just weighed the bike and It came in at 32.9. If I change my brakes, Handle bars, stem, and tires(I'm using maxxis hookworms) I could possibly have a sub 30lb bike. I absolutely LOVE the frame Geo and the way the bike handles. I am working on my fakie roll outs and 180s to really get me started in the urban scene.


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## xxBulldogxx (Aug 9, 2008)

From what i have been hearing, They are going to start offering the MOB in a full build for 09 and a few others too. I think I'm gonna try to wait to get mine to see what they come out with for next year.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

Yes the Riot is made overseas as well, but the 357 is a straight guage tubing and the Riot is butted. Now the Mob - well that is top of the line, drawn, butted, supertherm tubing specific to S&M.

They will be offering a Riot complete as well. Not sure if the Mob will be a complete.


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## kamikazee ideki (Jul 2, 2007)

pics please


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## JonnyB1107 (Sep 22, 2008)

*Transition*

Dude the Transition Trail or Park is an amazing bike i got one 2 weeks ago and it rides so sweet. Its sweet on dj and its awsome at the park. GET THAT BIKE!


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

well im still debating which frame to buy i think im going to go black market mob!


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

norcaldj said:


> well im still debating which frame to buy i think im going to go black market mob!


Plus with the changes they did are adding to the Mob, why would you go with anything else??


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

I know! i have been mind fu#$ing the hell out of my frame choice. i have been looking at the atomlab , do*ber*mann and tonic frames. and now that the mob has shaved another 1/4lb and made some improvements its hard to resist grabbing one!


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## Rattle Kann (Oct 4, 2008)

riding a blkmrkt is like getting a full size candybar at every house when you go trick or treating


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## Brodie_78Kt (Oct 5, 2008)

Demo-9 said:


> Yes the Riot is made overseas as well, but the 357 is a straight guage tubing and the Riot is butted. Now the Mob - well that is top of the line, drawn, butted, supertherm tubing specific to S&M.
> 
> They will be offering a Riot complete as well. Not sure if the Mob will be a complete.


exactly the 357 isn't made by s&m is made in some factory out the back of taiwan.

I wouldn't go one i no things have changed now but for anyone thats buying this bike because they think its the same as a mob or even a riot your wrong.

I have a riot the geo feels nice looking to move to a mob because the new one is so nice but anyway i think that if you were a beginer rider starting out being hack off gutters and stuff the 357 would be fine but if you have been riding for abit i definatly would be looking for something better.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I started with a Riot frame and built a new bike. Then I bought a Mob frame and swapped over the parts. There is a huge difference in feel of the frame. The Mob just rides better, even though they are the same geometry.


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