# OVAL rings - unfair advantage in singlespeed?



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This is what we keep hearing from our singlespeed friends and customers. Oval rings make you going quicker and easier especially on singlespeed where you have low rpm's while riding uphills out of the saddle.

Is this actually true for you? Well, mathematical thinking tell so. When your legs are in dead spot you have a smaller radius to overcome. When your legs are in slightly below horizontal position you have most power there, so radius of the ring is biggest. This in terms equal to greater speed, so your legs can go easier to a dead spot again where the radius is smaller(so legs move quicker again). repeat.
Sounds complicated, but in fact feels more natural than round ring.

Any users who could share experience with ovals in general?

We have spent countless hours developing one and this is the feedback we got from singlessped community. So I thought I will share with you that now there is (for the first time on the market) a proper option for 104BCD cranks in 32T size. This is the most wanted ring for the guys who are not 18 anymore..

32T equals to 30T in dead spot and 34t in peak zone.

To answer the first question - No, chain length is not changing. So one can ride with no chain tensioner.



















OVAL 104BCD chainring


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'll cross post from the AB chainrings thread, as it's relevant here as well:

Got a ride on my AB 32T oval N/W chain ring this weekend. Running 1x (with a Wolftooth 42T GC) on a 27.5 Trek Remedy.

Did 2200 ft of technical, rocky climbing yesterday (Deer Creek Canyon - classic CO Front Range grind). I'm happy with my AB oval ring. After about the 10th pedal stroke it just feels 'right'... to the point that a standard, 30T ring felt different... as you can feel the weak/strong parts of the stroke.

Coming off of a 30T, I was worried that the 32T would be a PITA to climb. I felt no loss in climbing efficiency. Was still able to go fast.

If/when I do a N/W 1x10 on my Niner J9RDO, I'll be looking at one of the AB oval rings :thumbsup:


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

So that was a hilarious sales pitch, but I have to admit that I've been tempted by the ads for those other oval rings. These are at a better pricepoint though, so I'm glad to know that there are some options out there. I'd be waiting for the 34t in november, though.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

Tehan said it himself! Oval rings offer an unfair advantage and should therefore be banned from all singlespeed events! :cornut:


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Didn't we try this in 1988 with Biopace?


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Awesome. Totally onboard for trying one at that price point . Site says 10 or 11 speed chain only. Can I use a 9 speed for SS use? Great work


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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

I would love to see video of the chainring in action without a tensioner and with a way to see how much chain slack is happening. I can imagine how/why it could work that way but I'm still not quite believing it. Or, does the tension change, just not enough to derail the chain with a narrow-wide ring (and perhaps cog)?


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I'm not an SS-er, but I have biopace on an old road bike that I still ride regularly, - I can't really tell it there, so IMO an irregular chaingring might be worth a try. What caught my eye was the title: Unfair Advantage, which a book well worth reading for any racer by Mark Donahue (car racing legent).


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## JLMBiker (Feb 21, 2005)

i am running a 34T NW (32 that goes up to 36) with 21T rear cog and am very happy with this combination


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

adinpapa said:


> Awesome. Totally onboard for trying one at that price point . Site says 10 or 11 speed chain only. Can I use a 9 speed for SS use? Great work


For SS application you can use whatever you want. So 9spd will work great as well.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Mr. 68 Hundred said:


> I would love to see video of the chainring in action without a tensioner and with a way to see how much chain slack is happening. I can imagine how/why it could work that way but I'm still not quite believing it. Or, does the tension change, just not enough to derail the chain with a narrow-wide ring (and perhaps cog)?


Technically tension changes by 1-2mm from tight spot to loose spot. So it's almost negligible.

So in order to properly set it up you need to tension the chain on the biggest radius of the oval = crank between 3-4 o'clock. 
Then when the cranks are vertical chain is minimally loose. Something like uneven round chainrnig on the fixie where you can see tight and loose spots. But this does not affect your ride in any way as you already set it up for the "tight" spot with proper tension.

I will have my own video in few days but here you can see a Rotor one - same concept...

Single Speed and Rotor Q Ring chain tension - YouTube


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

and here is my video for 1/10. As ou can see cage does not move at all.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

Any plans to do them in 33 and 35 Tooth? Is it mounted like a BETD or Rotor ring(in the same position)?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

It's very similar to Rotor main position. Other positions in Rotor chainrnigs are for less than 3% of people where Rotor admits that itself.


We will do 34T as a next one. That will be 32/36T oval which will suit you well from what you wrote.
As biggest radius will be 36T and smallest 32T. But you will feel something like ~34T. 

From my experience Oval rings should be picked quite similar in size to your round ones. 

I found that person who rides round 30- 32T will feel great on Oval 32T. Some of my customers claim even that they moved from 28T and it's ok for them.

34T oval will suit best for someone who currently uses 32-34T round ring.

If you are in the middle= 32T and don't know which one to choose then answer is quite simple:
If you are not seeking to push yourself a bit more from what you already have, then choose 32T. It will feel very similar.

If you want to try something a little bit harder than get Oval 34T.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Word on BETD.
In terms of Oval rings it is absolutely crucial to get the clocking right.

BETD is different to the clocking of biggest radius compared to Rotor or mine. So it will feel different(mostly not accepted by many).

BETD has it's biggest radius at almost 5 o'clock which is too late. So you do not use your maximum power at the peak zone. 

Between Rotor or mine and BETD there is almost 20deg difference to clocking. This is very big difference.

Hence so many opinions on the Ovals. Most people think that oval=oval.
That is not true. Each company has completely different clocking and shape. 
So if you tried brand A in the past you will not be able to say how you would feel on brand B. But most people think it's a same thing. It's not. This is why Biopace still comes to surface after almost 30 years in conversations 

They are all different - especially Biopace which was done in completely wrong way.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

What i meant was, i currently have 3 x oval chainrings, a 33, 34 &35. I was wondering if you will be making 33 tooth and 35 tooth versions.
The ROTOR and BETD clock up exactly the same. Will yours clock up the same as them?
edit- i think you answered my question.
Not busting your balls, just like to know what i'm buying etc.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Wasn't the reason biopace failed is that they were destroying people's knees? Are our memories that short?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

They are not the same:
BETD:
This photo shows quite well where the crank is at the biggest radius of the ring. You can see it's already very low = not many muscles engaged.









Absoluteblack Chainrnig:
You can see that crank is slightly below the level. This is where you have most power at your disposal and all muscles are engaged. It also can't be at the horizontal position as there is certain lag in your reaction. So doing it just below level you use as well your mass of leg as additional inertia. Hence it feels "right" for legs when you sit on it.
This is whole difference between Ovals. To get it "right"


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> Wasn't the reason biopace failed is that they were destroying people's knees? Are our memories that short?


Biopace failed because They put biggest radius to the dead spot and smallest to your peak power zone. Exactly opposite to what Rotor or I have.

So imagine that you pedal and where your cranks are at level and you want to push hard suddenly you find out that radius is very small = very easy to pedal. Then moving the cranks to vertical position and we have huge radius to push over where almost any muscle is engaged. How hard that must have been?
This is why it was very bad for the knees. Completely wrong execution of the design. So we really can't compare those two.

Hope this is clear for everyone now. Biopace was done wrongly but people remember that it was oval. In fact shape was not even a proper oval.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks for the video. It would be nice to see one of your rings laid over the top of a Rotor or Betd to check the difference in shape etc.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This will give you nothing. Changes in oval shape when you have teeth will not be visible much. 

Most important is clocking here and I have already posted you few photos to see how it looks like.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

How about you guys start filling orders and little less posting on the forum...


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Or how about sending some to the angry single speeder to let him do a review on them?


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## fishrising (Mar 11, 2012)

^^^^^^what he said^^^^^^


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

anyone has an email to him maybe??


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

tehan said:


> anyone has an email to him maybe??


He writes for MTBR, and can be reached here;

[email protected]

Here's his section of MTBR, including links to his FB and twitter pages

Kurt Gensheimer | Mountain Bike Review


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## AaronJobe (Sep 20, 2009)

Could you please make one designed for Race Face's Cinch system.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> Biopace failed because They put biggest radius to the dead spot and smallest to your peak power zone. Exactly opposite to what Rotor or I have.
> 
> So imagine that you pedal and where your cranks are at level and you want to push hard suddenly you find out that radius is very small = very easy to pedal. Then moving the cranks to vertical position and we have huge radius to push over where almost any muscle is engaged. How hard that must have been?
> This is why it was very bad for the knees. Completely wrong execution of the design. So we really can't compare those two.
> ...


Thanks. Makes sense.

I would love to see some reviews and quantifiable evidence that these help you put out more power, but I am intrigued.

Also, I second the request for a cinch chainring!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I decided to read this (though not an ss guy) out of curiosity. I am far from an expert on any of this but basic physics (leverage) applies. Been intrigued by this simply cause I can see how it would be great if executed properly.

I dont see a "power increase" as much as I see the ability to sustain more power longer. It basically gives u the "less effort" of a smaller ring when ur legs are out of their range of motion that most power is produced. Thus each part of the revolution a leg gets to work less. Less fatigue. 

That's my take on it. Who makes the correct clocking is hard to say, I have no clue the science behind sorting that out. But could these oval rings be something that actually works like its supposed to and not all hype, very possible. 

Has me curious, enough to be worth trying one. But my season here is almost over so ill be keeping an eye on all this for next season. Be worth a shot since plans are to do some novice xc races next season.
Sent from my Nokia Stupid Phone using Tapatalk


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

I know firsthand the principles behind it work for things like compound bows, so it should work in theory on a bicycle. I'm very tempted to pull the trigger on one for myself for my SS, but like others, I'd rather hear some reviews from the experts first.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

They do not produce more power I have never claimed that they do. They just make you quicker by clever distribution of your energy.

Logic here is very basic and simple so everyone can understand it.

When you ride round ring, take 30T, you have at power zone (let say cranks leveled) to push 30T radius, then going to dead zone (cranks vertical) you still have to push 30T radius. Simple, right? As ring is round.

Now what happens with oval 32T?. 
You pedal at power zone (cranks leveled=horizontal) with a radius of 34T ring - which means you will feel it almost as 34T for a micro second. Then because ring is oval that radius changes very quickly to 30T in the dead zone (that is cranks vertical).
So why you ride quicker? Because you push for the fraction of the second, where it matters most, with 34T. Everyone understand that right? Riding on 34T will make you quicker than on 30T.

But then again because it is oval you will feel a lot different than pedalling 34T all the time because there is also moment of inertia of your leg mass. 
Your leg will spin just a bit quicker at the dead spot caring this speed to power zone. And because power zone is slightly below level of horizontal line of the crank, your mas of the leg (inertia) will help you to push that 34T radius for a fraction of a second. 

This is where you get more speed. By cleverly distributing the force. 32T oval ring will NOT feel like pedaling 34T round ring. 

32T oval ring will feel like pedaling 30T ring on drugs

I have done lots of testing among my testers and friends and we all came to conclusion that someone who ride now 30T or 32T round ring will feel absolutely normal on 32T oval. You will suddenly feel that the stroke is more natural and "right" for the leg. 


You will see soon various tests in magazines as we are sending the stuff. But I can assure you that once reviews are out it will not be easy to get one quick...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

thing is no one is more of an expert than the Creator of it

To be an expert you would have to read about 200 University papers on that which equals to thousands of pages and costs a lot as these articles in great extent are not free of charge. 

I have done this in last 18 months. So there are only handful of people out there who actually know what is all about in Ovals. 
These are Rotor employees and people behind all these tests and paperworks. None of them work in magazines


What that means for you? Just try one and you will see how much benefit you will get. Trust me. 

You can already read comments from people who already have one from first batch. Here or on my Fb page. 
We are 100% sure that shape and clocking is right. It just took us so long to get to the price point at which you will have a less hesitation to try it. There is no cheaper and more refined Oval ring on the market. Simple.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

irishpitbull said:


> How about you guys start filling orders and little less posting on the forum...


I did  before there was even a thread on it. They had barely been on the AB website. Happy I did, too.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

tehan said:


> came to conclusion that someone who ride now 30T or 32T round ring will feel absolutely normal on 32T oval. You will suddenly feel that the stroke is more natural and "right" for the leg.


This is my conclusion from the couple rides I have on mine


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

Seems like you're confident enough to offer a money back guarantee?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I am confident enough to promote something I believe and know it works. I would not be in business anymore if all my products were bad.. 

I worked for Trek long enough to learn that "money back guarantee" always attract wrong people I am still not big enough to process all that in case someone decides to ride it for 2 races and give it back because he already has something else...


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

Nice product. I'm curious how it feels climbing while standing. I understand the rotor concept on tt bikes and road bikes as you are in a seated position in efforts to reduce dead spots and smooth out the cadence. Did you research or compare seated vs standing power distribution as most ss riders are frequently in and out of the saddle.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> They do not produce more power I have never claimed that they do. They just make you quicker by clever distribution of your energy.
> 
> Logic here is very basic and simple so everyone can understand it.
> 
> ...


You do not produce more power but are quicker? Explain that to me because it makes zero sense.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Say you put out an avg of 300 watts for an hour at an avg heart rate of 160 with a round ring. If you also put out that same wattage with the oval ring at 160 BPM, how does your speed increase? (all other things being equal)

Not trying to be an a$$, just trying to grasp the concept. I always thought power=speed with all else being equal.


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## xmlc216x (Oct 3, 2007)

^^what Stew said. It does seem that the dynamics of the power portion of the stroke would change while standing.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Power is a function of torque and speed. Increase either and power goes up.

I'd say what I felt riding this ring was that it was easier to make the same power, as the pedal stroke is smoother and you feel stronger in the dead part of the stroke. It uses mechanical advantage (lever, really) to allow less exertion = reduced TQ, but more constant speed (instead of pumping/mashing).

Felt no difference on standing climbs (but I don't do those very often... Rear wheel slips too much out here)

It really is a cool (and simple) idea... This thread shows that people really are over thinking it. :thumbsup:


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## xmlc216x (Oct 3, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> Say you put out an avg of 300 watts for an hour at an avg heart rate of 160 with a round ring. If you also put out that same wattage with the oval ring at 160 BPM, how does your speed increase? (all other things being equal)
> 
> Not trying to be an a$$, just trying to grasp the concept. I always thought power=speed with all else being equal.


I'm not sure that I completely grasp the full benefits either, but it seems to me that you instantaneously push a "larger" gear, but only in the power part of your stroke. Then your leg speed increases through the rest of the stroke as if you were pushing a smaller gear. You do not require as much leverage to push the oval ring as you sweep through the bottom of your stroke. If this is how it works, it seems that it's simply amplifying the "pulsing" of a natural pedal stroke.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I have explained it very precisely in the post you quoted. If you were using 32T round ring or 30T ring and had 300 watts average all is good.

Then moving to oval 32T you will most likely stay on the same average in terms of wattage. But the spikes in the wattage within one revolution will be different to the ones in round ring. This is a Huge topic and I don't want to open it here. 

For easy understanding - average wattage stay same. 

Why you go quicker? Because instead of 32T ring you use oval 32T which spikes to 34T in power zone. That means that you effectively pedal on 34T ring. But because ring is not oval and you have some inertia from dead zone where leg moved quicker with less wattage, so you are able to push that 34T spike on the ring with easy. So overall you do not feel like pedaling 34T, but you are riding 34T instead of 32T...

Humans are not machines. No one is capable to distribute constant power and speed across whole revolution. Hence round rings are not ideal for a human. 

Oval rings smoothen this out.

To understand it you would have to learn anatomy as well as biomechanics of the body. 
In your power zone there are 3 big groups of muscles involved (bottocks, 4 head muscle and calf) In other parts of the revolution only 1 small muscle is involved. 
Hence your pedaling on the round ring is not really that efficient as on the oval one. 

This is such a massive topic to cover that you would have to read a lot of documents to fully understand. 

So making life simpler - it works If you are really curious why, then start reading some biomechanical researches on that topic as there is no 5 line answer to that.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

you almost got it right This should be basic understanding of this. 
But thing which is confusing most is that you will actually feel that your stroke more "round" with oval shape than with round chainring.
This is something you can't imagine and I can't show on website - you have to try it to believe it.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

tehan said:


> you will actually feel that your stroke more "round" with oval shape than with round chainring.


This is true.

On my last ride, a buddy and I swapped bikes a couple times. The oval ring feels smoother. You actually feel the cyclical nature of pedaling more with the round ring than you do with the oval ring


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

8iking VIIking said:


> Not trying to be an a$$, just trying to grasp the concept. I always thought power=speed with all else being equal.


An oval chainring (or a round one, or a square one, or shorte cranks, or longer cranks or whatever bike part) can NEVER CREATE more or less power. (because it doesn't produce any power at all)

But what it might do is enable the rider's body to deliver more power, or work more effeciently, by manipulating the joint angles, joint angular velocities, muscle shortening speeds etc at which the rider's legs have to work 



HPIguy said:


> Or how about sending some to the angry single speeder to let him do a review on them?


Or send it to me. I don't do 104mm though, I prefer 5-arm 110mm, 36t


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

tehan said:


> We will do 34T as a next one. That will be 32/36T oval which will suit you well from what you wrote.
> As biggest radius will be 36T and smallest 32T. But you will feel something like ~34T.


I suggest doing a 36 ring.

One of the guys who I ride with often races on 36/16 in tight single track. He strong enough to handle the gear and needs it for the power he produces. If he was on a 34 tooth ring, he would need a 15 or 14 tooth cog to get a similar ratio. My concern is that the small cog would risk of throwing a chain.

With 36 tooth ring your tight/loose issue will be reduced and you get a smoother drive train when running larger cogs. I often ride single track with 36/22. I also like the option of using 36/16 for long endurance rides on paved roads when trails are wet. For the guys who need light weight as priority you already have 32 tooth. Basically 36 tooth gives more option at a small weight cost. Doing 34 tooth is nice but if you only have two rings choices I recommend 32 and 34.


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## mrawesome234100 (Aug 16, 2014)

or maybe lower the price. not everyone can pay $85 (after shipping) for that sh!t


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

It's already very low. 
Compare to anything else like Rotor and you will quickly find out that our if half the price.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> I have explained it very precisely in the post you quoted. If you were using 32T round ring or 30T ring and had 300 watts average all is good.
> 
> Then moving to oval 32T you will most likely stay on the same average in terms of wattage. But the spikes in the wattage within one revolution will be different to the ones in round ring. This is a Huge topic and I don't want to open it here.
> 
> ...


Well that sounds good. I wonder why all the pros aren't using these if they're so great!

I'll be a bit skeptical until I see some quantifiable evidence. Got any links?

You should cross post this in the xc racing/training forum. I'd be interested to see those guys weigh in on this....there are some very smart dudes over there


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Order placed- not out of necessity or search for more speed, but because it looks like a fun experiment. Can you please post on your website, or detail here, how to setup chainlength for singlespeed application. Looking forward to it!


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## mrawesome234100 (Aug 16, 2014)

tehan said:


> It's already very low.
> Compare to anything else like Rotor and you will quickly find out that our if half the price.


Yes, I see that yours is cheaper, and probably better too.
but a race face narrow-wide round ring is $35 on ebay. I just don't have an extra 50. If the price was $50, I would definitely buy it. But that's probably asking to much for a new product to drop its price that low.


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## evenslower (Sep 26, 2005)

When a 34 is available I'll be giving them a try


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## max_29 (Oct 10, 2007)

i've been riding oval rings on SS for about 3 yrs.

34T - 13.5%








34T - 12%








and now 35T - 15%








have also 36T waiting it's turn.

just like adinpapa - "not out of necessity or search for more speed", 
but out of curiosity.
It IS fun


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## Burgunder (Jan 16, 2014)

Scientific study of oval chainrings http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/Biomechanical study chainrings - release 2.pdf


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## mrawesome234100 (Aug 16, 2014)

Burgunder said:


> Scientific study of oval chainrings http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/Biomechanical study chainrings - release 2.pdf


scroll to page 33 for the rankings, and increased power amount.
question is, which design is the absolute black ring?


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

Super-interesting. Since this is in the SS forum, I'd really like to hear the creator discuss the early question about standing pedaling. Here in AZ, I spend probably 50% of a ride or more standing, cranking and sawing on the bars.

This is obviously not smooth power input, but necessary to get an SS rig up a mountain. How do these "benefits" apply to standing power input that's not smooth?


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Burgunder said:


> Scientific study of oval chainrings http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/Biomechanical study chainrings - release 2.pdf


Well, if we were endurance racers spinning at a set RPM that'd be great. 



Blatant said:


> Super-interesting. Since this is in the SS forum, I'd really like to hear the creator discuss the early question about standing pedaling. Here in AZ, I spend probably 50% of a ride or more standing, cranking and sawing on the bars.
> 
> This is obviously not smooth power input, but necessary to get an SS rig up a mountain. How do these "benefits" apply to standing power input that's not smooth?


^^THIS


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Burgunder said:


> Scientific study of oval chainrings http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/Biomechanical study chainrings - release 2.pdf


That is great stuff.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Interesting indeed. SRAM Direct mount coming?


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

There is also Sheldon Brown's experience with non round rings with some history (they are 100 years old).

Biopace Chainwheels


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

Important quotes from Sheldon Brown:

_"The high gear when the cranks are horizontal encourages the rider to push too hard, and we all know that pushing too high a gear is a common cause of knee problems. In addition, the low gear when the cranks are vertical means that the knees are moving extra fast when they are changing direction from going up to down and vice versa. This "whiplash" effect caused most users to abandon elliptical chainwheels."

"Biopace chainwheels have the small radius engaged when the cranks are horizontal, the large when they are vertical. -- The momentum of your feet then carries the pedals through the "dead spot" when the cranks are near vertical. Since the rider doesn't push as hard during the power phase of the stroke, and motion is slower when the leg is changing direction, the Biopace design is gentler on the knees than even round chainwheels."_

I have used Biopace in this manner on a SS rig for a while and I found it to be quite pleasing. The feeling is funny: the pedal suddenly moves down very fast as if the rear tire was slipping, but in reality you're going forward at a steady pace with good traction. I'd be willing to try it on my primary SS 29er as well, but the bolt holes don't match. (My Biopace chainring is 110 mm 5-bolt and the 29er has a 104 mm 4-bolt spider.)

The product discussed in this topic would be suitable for me, if I installed it 90° "wrong".


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

Blatant said:


> Super-interesting. Since this is in the SS forum, I'd really like to hear the creator discuss the early question about standing pedaling. Here in AZ, I spend probably 50% of a ride or more standing, cranking and sawing on the bars.
> 
> This is obviously not smooth power input, but necessary to get an SS rig up a mountain. How do these "benefits" apply to standing power input that's not smooth?


Standing and pedaling is where you feel the benefit of the oval ring the most IMO. Tight switchbacks and grunty hi effort climbing feels easier with an oval chainring, that's my experience anyway.
I've backordered one. It'll be interesting to compare it against the other oval chainrings i have and it'll come in handy for endurance events.


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

tehan said:


> I am confident enough to promote something I believe and know it works. I would not be in business anymore if all my products were bad..
> 
> I worked for Trek long enough to learn that "money back guarantee" always attract wrong people I am still not big enough to process all that in case someone decides to ride it for 2 races and give it back because he already has something else...


I think you just said that you don't want the business of someone who demands proof of efficacy before paying for something. Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

Also interested in a Cinch ring... being that the new Turbine cranks are going to the Cinch system, it seems like a good base to cover.

I've had experience with oval before... kinda liked it, but Rotor was too $$ for my blood based on annual replacement.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey guys,
Sorry for being here in and out but since we posted new Sram spiderless oval version on Facebook things got busy beyond control...

XX1 Style - Sram

Thing with an oval is you really need to try it to feel it. I can't show it on the website. So if someone never tried our oval ring will have absolutely no idea how it works and behaves. Even if you used old stuff like Biopace or other oval rings - there is NO comparison. 
Comparing biopace to mine is like comparing a monkey to a human... their DNA is "almost" the same This is why it is so hard to convince people. They are already negative about this not even ever trying a thing!
So why oval has trouble to pick up in general? As general opinion is that they cause all but good. And fact is that 99.9% commenters on every single magazine or forum has never had one in hands. People discard stuff which they don't understand and they are scared of to not to be able to understand. (That's why apple phones are so damn simple)

few answers:
Riding while standing. 
Oval ring is in fact even better in low rpm's as you can feel it even more. So riding out of saddle is a great experience and you will thank yourself for that purchase. Trust me. Ride become easier.

Axle length:
GXP has only one length. So you just buy GXP chainring. Simple.

BB30 has 2 lenghts:
Short - there is 9mm spacer on drive hand side of axle
Long - there is 15mm spacer on drive hand side of axle.

Short - this requires flat ring. We only do for now round ones and they are marked as BB30.

Long spindle - this is same length as GXP, so you buy GXP chainring for that. This is what we take pre orders now.

So long axle BB30 is same as GXP and you need to get GXP ring for that.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

In other words...."I can't give you evidence that it works, just trust me that is does!"

You need a better sales pitch


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

To add more:
This ring does not need chain catcher/tensioner/guide. So no problem here with chain retention.
This ring will not cause hart attack or knee problems or earthquake as physically it is not possible. It smoothen the ride - not make it harder.
This ring will not cause rear mech cage to move (already proven)
This ring really can be used in singlespeed (with no tensioner) and will not slack the chain. I know it's difficult to get it right in your head, but it really do work.
This ring is NOT a Biopace thing or anything else you tried. Closest comparison is only Rotor.


Just get few friends, kitty up for one chainring if you don't believe and each of you will have a go on it. What you will risk in such situation is a cost of few bears only. My guess you can live with it And this is 1000x better solution to offer you "money back guarantee" as you will have that one ring and can give it to all your friends to try so they will finally know what they are writing about!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> In other words...."I can't give you evidence that it works, just trust me that is does!"
> 
> You need a better sales pitch


I don't. Because I know that at some point one of your friends will have it and then you will come back

I am not selling miracles or marketing bs. It simply can't be shown to you on the screen in the way for you to believe me right away. This is why we know that sales will get huge in few months once people who ride will show their friends and they will pass it further.

At the minute almost every single bike mag has contacted us asking for few to test.


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

Thanks for your responses. It is definately a product I would be interested in when I go to buy a new chainring.


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## max_29 (Oct 10, 2007)

tehan said:


> Even if you used old stuff like Biopace or other oval rings - there is NO comparison.


- how many "other" rings have you tried? what makes them a "NO comparison" to yours?
- I would not mind trying yours, but you don't make them in 1/8"


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

tehan said:


> What you will risk in such situation is a cost of few *bears *only.


Lions?! Tigers?! *BEARS?!* Oh my!

I kid, I kid.

Put another 18 miles and 3500ft of climbing on my 32T AB N/W Oval chain ring last night.

Guess I'm gonna have to buy a green 32T one for my XC 29er.


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

I have yet to see a graph to substantiate any sort of claims. So far, just lots of heavy-handed marketing.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

justin_amador said:


> I have yet to see a graph to substantiate any sort of claims. So far, just lots of heavy-handed marketing.


lol.

And my pesky, 1st-hand-from-actual-riding accounts?


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> I am not selling miracles or marketing bs
> .


Look at the title of this thread. No marketing huh? An "unfair advantage" from a chainring sure sounds like a miracle to me....


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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

Tehan, do you have a tip to tip measurement along the long axis of the oval? Due to tight tolerances at chainstay; I'm maxed at 28T (Bling Ring) round at 51 mm I think. If I could flip SRAM spiderless to increase chain line number; maybe it could fit. Thanks.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

I use Qrings and all my bikes are power meter equipped. This is small increase in power over a hour duration of the trainer workouts I have tested with over the winter. 3 to 8 watts per 60 mins at the same avg HR. Lots variables in these testing I know and is 3 to 8 watts worth money? I think the biggest advantage of the qrings is the fatigue factor. I do feel I push harder longer on the Qrings.

If I ever get my AB ring I will compare the data from the round, Qring, and AB rings.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

How many mountain bike companies do you support who do no marketing? 

How many graphs, charts and scientific proof do you have for all the fancy parts you have purchased?

Do you have proof that your bike suspension does all the amazing thing things the manufacturer claims? Do you have proof that your wide rims really provide better cornering and traction? Do you have a "flickability" graph to prove your wheel size is the best? Did you obtain the proof that your 200 dollar derailleur really shifts better than a 50 dollar one? 

The logic behind oval rings is nothing new, and seems sound in theory.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

justin_amador said:


> I have yet to see a graph to substantiate any sort of claims. So far, just lots of heavy-handed marketing.


Take a 30T chainrnig on the ride on flat ground. Then mount 34T and do same ride. Figure out on which one you will ride faster giving that you are keeping same torque output and cadence.

Oval is like that, but you will not feel drawback of pushing 34T uphill. Reason for it is changing leverage. 
I already wrote about that deeply in my posts here. This is really very simple physics. 
The variable which changes mostly in round and oval ring is a vector representation of the speed of the leg and changes in peak power output. 
Leg moves a bit quicker on the bottom of the stroke as radius is smaller, then you carry that inertia of the leg to the point where you have biggest radius of the ring, thus you do not have to put as much power as before with a round ring. 
So overall your perception will be that your pedaling smoothened out as there are smaller extremes of the generated power by your legs. But average power still stay the same - basics of the physics.
Rotor proved that numerous times and it applies to all the ovals. Thing where most of the companies differ is the clocking of the oval. This is one of most important variables.

So to short answer other question. This is why you can't put ovals into one bag and say all are the same. As even having same ring, but clocking it differently will end up in completely different product which will behave completely differently. Timing of the biggest radius is detrimental to the feeling during the ride. This is why riding a product A will not be same to ride product B, even if they are both ovals.
This boils down to the point where you can't say my product will behave same as Biopace as they are entirely different.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

you can't flip spiderless ring. Biggest diameter is 34T so if your frame accepts only 28T - this is no go.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Just take a note.
I do NOT claim as with my rings you will produce more power. Yes, in mathematical calculation you will do about 1-2% more. But this is a wash(!) as most power meters will have 1-3% reading error, so no point here.

Thing I DO claim is a smoother ride and greater speed at the same level of effort. This is backed by basics of physics. 
Few hundred years ago most people believed that earth was flat. It took a very long time to educate basics of physics entire nations to finally take it for granted. First people were hanged for such a wild heresy So when Biopace is dead we should move on.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

tehan said:


> I do NOT claim as with my rings you will produce more power. Yes, in mathematical calculation you will do about 1-2% more. But this is a wash(!) as most power meters will have 1-3% reading error, so no point here.
> 
> Thing I DO claim is a smoother ride and greater speed at the same level of effort.


The only way to realize greater speed at the same level of effort is if the ring increases power output. Which is ok. It is plausible to me that it could.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Tehan,
Can you tell us about your company? You list it as being based in the UK, but your contact phone doesn't look to be from there, and I don't think English is your first language. Where are these rings made and where is your contact number based?


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm trying to figure out the motivation of the haters here. Tehan hasn't said anything that sounds like heavy handed marketing to me, nor has he made any claims that are unsubstantiated, aside from the "unfair advantage" bit. This is inaccurate, because for the advantage to be unfair, it must be an advantage that not everyone has equal access to. So unless Tehan plans to prevent certain individuals from being able to purchase one of these rings, it's not really an unfair advantage.

Note: I haven't purchased anything from Tehan, but his posts and his approach to his business are more logical than most. I'd buy a ring from him if I were in the market, maybe even an oval ring to try for myself, but I'm not in the market at the moment and no direct mount for the oval ring yet. I purchased from He-Who-Shall-Remain-Nameless purely to support a grass roots guy with no expectation to receive my product in a timely matter (and later, at all). With Tehan, my confidence is significantly higher that I'll receive my product when promised and that the guy will respond to my questions. That remains true whether or not an oval ring actually does as advertised or not.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> Tehan,
> Can you tell us about your company? You list it as being based in the UK, but your contact phone doesn't look to be from there, and I don't think English is your first language. Where are these rings made and where is your contact number based?


He has a "Who we are" section on his website. It mentions that the company is in Woburn, UK and that Tehan is a Polish engineer. Link below if you care...

who we are


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

I'm not a hater, just skeptical. Would it be more acceptable if I just bought into the claims hook, line and sinker?


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

*Please!!!*



tehan said:


> Just take a note.
> I do NOT claim as with my rings you will produce more power. Yes, in mathematical calculation you will do about 1-2% more. But this is a wash(!) as most power meters will have 1-3% reading error, so no point here.
> 
> Thing I DO claim is a smoother ride and greater speed at the same level of effort. This is backed by basics of physics.
> Few hundred years ago most people believed that earth was flat. It took a very long time to educate basics of physics entire nations to finally take it for granted. First people were hanged for such a wild heresy So when Biopace is dead we should move on.


Let me know how to get it and the best price i can get. I need it.
Thank you so much.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

These informations are on my website, but:
I personally live in UK from many years (phone is british +44), but I am not British, so I do make spelling or grammar mistakes sometimes. 
We have two locations, one in UK and one (main) in Poland in my old home country where also factory is based (EU). 
All the products are made entirely in Poland(EU) (including packaging, stickers etc)this is stated on my web page. We are growing quickly now, so soon there may be more locations we send from the orders to speed that process. 

If you order directly from website it may happen that items from the order will be send from different places (UK or Poland). This is for speeding up the delivery process where we need to.


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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

tehan said:


> you can't flip spiderless ring. Biggest diameter is 34T so if your frame accepts only 28T - this is no go.


Bummer; thank you for answering.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> I'm not a hater, just skeptical. Would it be more acceptable if I just bought into the claims hook, line and sinker?


I realize I won't be able to convince everyone. In fact till today this has not been achieved in Oval ring department by any company because of Biopace thing which still comes up to surface after so many years. I am not trying to convince you on the idea by any force. All I ask is a bit of trust and to try it on one day. Then we can talk.
You can't taste the lollipop by licking the packaging. Same applies here.

When I started this project over 18 months ago I also had so many questions in my head. But after reading tons of pages of research articles/studies it became apparent how they are better and how they should look like.
Simplest way to explain all that is to pedal on this ring for few minutes. Like with many things, suddenly many questions get answers without even asking a question.

My guess is we need to wait till my second batch gets released to customers. Then lots more people will have a chance to give you first hand opinion.

Like with many things, at the end of the day numbers and charts are not important. What is important is your feeling on the bike and good fun. I think I am on a very good way to make that happen.


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> How many mountain bike companies do you support who do no marketing?
> 
> How many graphs, charts and scientific proof do you have for all the fancy parts you have purchased?
> 
> ...


When I bought a new bike, I went to at least 5+ demo days from different manufacturers to decide what felt best for me. Each of those manufacturers was confident enough of their product to allow me to evaluate it at no risk before plunking down money.

I do have multiple reasons for electing to use a one wheel size over another, one of which is compatibility accross the three mountain bikes that live at my house. One of the others is the relationship between deflection and length when a given stress is applied to a beam or a wire is put under tension.

If I'm going to spend $150 extra on a part, I look at the schematic for that part and decide for myself if the difference in parts sets justifies the added cost. Bronze bushings vs. ceramic vs. roller bearings.

Some people are more data driven than others when justifying purchases. Some marketing groups are better at using data in marketing or allowing potential customers a chance to personally evaluate components.

Part of the reason I bust the guy's balls so much is the whole "just trust me and buy it" marketing technique. It irritates me. I actually did a senior project in college where I built and tested eliptical chain-rings as a way to mitigate rear-tire slip when climbing, so I've probably done some of the same research he did when he put together his chainrings. I'm aware of the biomechanics, torque curves, power transmission, etc . . . But, telling me to just trust and buy is a crap way to market something, especially when the data is available, and graphs are easy to generate.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I've used Rotor rings - I started using them because I had knee issues and wanted to give myself the best chance in rehab. I can't measure a performance difference is because I have never been able to go directly from oval to round or round to oval on the same bike when I was in great shape (due to injuries). However I can assure you that there isn't a downside to them in my experience, and I've done pretty well racing on them. At the very least, you get a narrow-wide ring that has no disadvantage to a round ring. 

It's not the holy grail of biking but I believe in it, so if you need a chainring anyway it might not hurt too bad to try it. The Rotor rings (or any other comparables I've seen) are way more expensive than these and are not even currently available in a 104bcd narrow-wide.

If you don't believe in them then just let the market figure out whether they are worth it and don't buy them for now.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

8iking VIIking said:


> I'm not a hater, just skeptical. Would it be more acceptable if I just bought into the claims hook, line and sinker?


Nah, I'm a fan of researching on your own before buying. However, there is skepticism and then there is cynicism, and much of what has been posted in this thread has been the latter rather than the former.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

justin_amador said:


> When I bought a new bike, I went to at least 5+ demo days from different manufacturers to decide what felt best for me. Each of those manufacturers was confident enough of their product to allow me to evaluate it at no risk before plunking down money.
> 
> I do have multiple reasons for electing to use a one wheel size over another, one of which is compatibility accross the three mountain bikes that live at my house. One of the others is the relationship between deflection and length when a given stress is applied to a beam or a wire is put under tension.
> 
> ...


So if the guy selling the stuff generated the charts for you, THEN you'd believe him?


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## robbbby (Oct 1, 2006)

Any plans for oval rings larger than the 30T you are currently taking pre-orders for?


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## dolface (Apr 5, 2007)

If you look further up the thread he's currently shipping a 32, and plans to start shipping a 34 in November. (I don't believe there's currently a 30).


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

tehan said:


> These informations are on my website, but:
> I personally live in UK from many years (phone is british +44), but I am not British, so I do make spelling or grammar mistakes sometimes.
> We have two locations, one in UK and one (main) in Poland in my old home country where also factory is based (EU).
> All the products are made entirely in Poland(EU) (including packaging, stickers etc)this is stated on my web page. We are growing quickly now, so soon there may be more locations we send from the orders to speed that process.
> ...


Hi... im in Perú now but I also can receive the item in USA.
Is the web the only way to get the price and pay it?
What is your lower price?

Thank you.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I currently use a 34t chainring. I think a 34t or 36t oval ring would be suitable for me. I'm willing to buy one as soon as it's released.

I plan to install it 90° opposite to manufacturer recommendation, because that way the dead centers (where legs switch direction) is the smoothest, and I get the easiest gearing at the spot where my legs produce most power. Why that way? Because on a SS bike when you stall for a moment and continue, you level the cranks and go from there. It makes sense to have easiest gearing when you try to start moving from standstill. Once you hit dead centers, you are already moving and it'll be easier to overcome - like a flywheel.


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## robbbby (Oct 1, 2006)

dolface said:


> If you look further up the thread he's currently shipping a 32, and plans to start shipping a 34 in November. (I don't believe there's currently a 30).


My mistake, thought the one on the website said 30T. Glad to hear there is plans for a 34.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Saul Lumikko said:


> ... I plan to install it 90° opposite to manufacturer recommendation, because that way ...


please, please, please don't do that. This is same reason why Biopace failed so miserably. If you do that you will be bouncing on the saddle and your legs and knees will get tired quite soon. It will not get smoother - it will get exactly opposite.
Sounds like you are missing completely what I was writing. What you suggest is exactly what Shimano made and this was a terrible idea. This is why it was hated by so many people.
You do need to have easier gear in your dead spot. Otherwise you strain your muscles and get injuries - this is the exact reason why people had knee problems with Biopace 30years ago. Because instead of pedaling easier in the dead spot they had to strain muscles and tendons to overcome greater radius of the ring in dead spot.

So if you plan on not to mount the ring according to my suggestion, then it will be actually better for your legs to stick to round one...


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## phsycle (Apr 14, 2011)

This is technically a Dingle. Please move to the geared section. 



Nice rings. I hope to try one someday.


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## TacoBeer (Sep 9, 2008)

I am very interested in this, I am just waiting for someone I know to try them out first and give a review. The price seems fair but I won't pay that for something I haven't heard about from real user reviews. Plus I am always weary of items that are not sold in local bike shops. (aka; in stock)


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## mrawesome234100 (Aug 16, 2014)

Saul Lumikko said:


> I currently use a 34t chainring. I think a 34t or 36t oval ring would be suitable for me. I'm willing to buy one as soon as it's released.
> 
> I plan to install it 90° opposite to manufacturer recommendation, because that way the dead centers (where legs switch direction) is the smoothest, and I get the easiest gearing at the spot where my legs produce most power. Why that way? Because on a SS bike when you stall for a moment and continue, you level the cranks and go from there. It makes sense to have easiest gearing when you try to start moving from standstill. Once you hit dead centers, you are already moving and it'll be easier to overcome - like a flywheel.


that's probably the one scenario where it would help, and just that one push. it would hurt everywhere else. it's probably better to just run lower gearing.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

Have read this thread with interest, yet cannot erase the clusterfuch that was Biopace from my mind. 
Without testimony, or verifiable evidence other than "I've read thousands of research papers so trust me", I'll be waiting. 
Don't be so quick to say - they see me rolling, and they hating".


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

I think wheels are an unfair advantage on a single speed...same with bars, a stem, cranks, and a frame...I mean its supposed to be a SINGLE SPEED...that's all you get. No accelerating. No slowing diwn. One single speed. I choose 19.23176 km/hr.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

Saul Lumikko said:


> I plan to install it 90° opposite to manufacturer recommendation, because that way the dead centers (where legs switch direction) is the smoothest, and I get the easiest gearing at the spot where my legs produce most power. Why that way? Because on a SS bike when you stall for a moment and continue, you level the cranks and go from there. It makes sense to have easiest gearing when you try to start moving from standstill. Once you hit dead centers, you are already moving and it'll be easier to overcome - like a flywheel.


Not a good idea at all. You are describing what Biopace was. And I can speak from personal experience. I have a 34t Rotor oval SS ring that I've used for past two years. When I first got it, I mounted it incorrectly (was in a hurry) and up doing what you are describing by mistake. It was horrible. The whole time on the ride I was like "wtf !? This sucks!" Then I got home realized I mounted it wrong, re-did it correctly and then went on to win a few local NorCal endurance races and a hundo miler in Pro SS class with it.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

TacoBeer said:


> The price seems fair but I won't pay that for something I haven't heard about from real user reviews.


:madman::madman::madman::madman::madman:


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## SHREDINATOR5000 (Jul 11, 2012)

Will an 8 speed chain work with these for SS?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

SHREDINATOR5000 said:


> Will an 8 speed chain work with these for SS?


It'll work fine, just as with any narrow/wide ring.
Just not as much retention as with the narrower chain.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

SHREDINATOR5000 said:


> Will an 8 speed chain work with these for SS?


Website states, "Can be used with 10 or 11spd chain only. If used in 1x9 drivetrain - 10spd chain must be used to obtain the performance. (yes - 10spd chain will work great on 9spd cassette)" . Will it drop a chain on an SS? Probably not since most regular chainrings don't either. Will you gain any benefit from the NW teeth? I don't know. If these are the same thickness as the Race Face NW, then i've had good luck with my 1x9 and a 9sp chain. I do use an upper chainguide, though, due to not using a clutch derailleur.

When they make red, i will try one for my gears. When they make blue, i will try one for my SS.


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## JLMBiker (Feb 21, 2005)

i run my oval exactly as Soul suggested (32 when i push and 36 on the dead spots) for the last 6 month and very happy with it (it really helps standing on the bike in a steep uphills)


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

tehan said:


> please, please, please don't do that. This is same reason why Biopace failed so miserably. If you do that you will be bouncing on the saddle and your legs and knees will get tired quite soon. It will not get smoother - it will get exactly opposite.
> Sounds like you are missing completely what I was writing. What you suggest is exactly what Shimano made and this was a terrible idea. This is why it was hated by so many people.
> You do need to have easier gear in your dead spot. Otherwise you strain your muscles and get injuries - this is the exact reason why people had knee problems with Biopace 30years ago. Because instead of pedaling easier in the dead spot they had to strain muscles and tendons to overcome greater radius of the ring in dead spot.


It seems that you are the one who doesn't read my posts, as evidenced by the selected quote "I plan to install it 90° opposite to manufacturer recommendation, because that way..." and looks like you stopped reading there without looking at the reasoning.

How many km or miles do you have experience with Biopace? Because I happen to have one mounted as I describe, and it does the exact opposite: bouncing on the saddle is reduced at high cadence, because legs switch direction (up and down) more smoothly. An easier gear in the downstroke gives momentum to get over the dead spot without trouble.

I'm willing to give the AB oval ring a try mounted as you described it (hardest gear when front crank is -20° from horizontal), but I suggest you do the same for the inverted style before claiming what it does (or doesn't do) and passing judgement.



mrawesome234100 said:


> that's probably the one scenario where it would help, and just that one push. it would hurt everywhere else. it's probably better to just run lower gearing.


Probably schmobably. How about you go out and ride one before saying what it does or doesn't do? It's not just one push: once you get moving and get over the dead spots (which are horrible in terms of power output no matter what gearing you have), you get another downstroke with a lot of torque. In addition to easier acceleration from deadstill, the slow dead centers make pedalling smoother at high cadences.



Tyrone Shoelaces said:


> Not a good idea at all. You are describing what Biopace was. And I can speak from personal experience. I have a 34t Rotor oval SS ring that I've used for past two years. When I first got it, I mounted it incorrectly (was in a hurry) and up doing what you are describing by mistake. It was horrible. The whole time on the ride I was like "wtf !? This sucks!" Then I got home realized I mounted it wrong, re-did it correctly and then went on to win a few local NorCal endurance races and a hundo miler in Pro SS class with it.


Ditto with the personal experience - with the exception that I didn't mount the ring the way I did by mistake. If it's a surprise to you and you think something is wrong with your bike, of course you will be bummed.

It's funny how a simple piece of metal can provoke feelings like this. Others hate all oval rings and stick to round ones. Others swear by Biopace style orientation and the third group is with Rotor and AB. The good thing is we have the option so everyone can make their choice based on their own preference and personal anatomy.

With 1x10 and other 1x drivetrains becoming more and more common on MTBs and Singlespeeds gaining popularity, I think the time is right for another coming of oval rings. I've heard they were difficult to get to work with front derailleurs, but that's a problem we don't have anymore.


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## Burgunder (Jan 16, 2014)

The study I linked to earlier seems to imply that you should place crank arm at around 110 degrees to the major axis to acheive the best results.


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## mrawesome234100 (Aug 16, 2014)

Saul Lumikko said:


> Probably schmobably. How about you go out and ride one before saying what it does or doesn't do? It's not just one push: once you get moving and get over the dead spots (which are horrible in terms of power output no matter what gearing you have), you get another downstroke with a lot of torque. In addition to easier acceleration from deadstill, the slow dead centers make pedalling smoother at high cadences.


I still don't understand what you're trying to say. You state that the dead spots are terrible in terms of power output, but then you want higher gearing there? And then, when you have a downstroke with a lot of torque, you want easy gearing? Honestly, if it works for you, do it. I haven't personally tried any oval rings, so how much are my opinions worth?:madman::madman:


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

^ Yes: dead spots are terrible in terms of power output anyways, so it doesn't matter much if they have a higher gearing. The benefit of higher gearing at the dead spot is that the legs change direction more slowly.

The downstroke is where most power is available, but it's also where I start pedalling, if I have come to a stop. I want the easiest gearing there to get going. Once I'm going, the leg will move down very fast on the downstroke, but it works like a flywheel and helps get over the dead spots.

Have a look here if you didn't already: Biopace Chainwheels

Burgunder: I'll read through the study with care. Thanks!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jetboy23 said:


> Website states, "Can be used with 10 or 11spd chain only. If used in 1x9 drivetrain - 10spd chain must be used to obtain the performance. (yes - 10spd chain will work great on 9spd cassette)" . Will it drop a chain on an SS? Probably not since most regular chainrings don't either. Will you gain any benefit from the NW teeth? I don't know. If these are the same thickness as the Race Face NW, then i've had good luck with my 1x9 and a 9sp chain. I do use an upper chainguide, though, due to not using a clutch derailleur.
> 
> When they make red, i will try one for my gears. When they make blue, i will try one for my SS.


It will work with 8spd chain as well. Reason I write 10/11spd chain only is that majority of people buy it for geared bikes. 
Why Narrow/Wide chainrings are great for singlespeed?? Because they will last you longer. There is simply more material on the teeth so they are not deforming as quick.

Jetboy - used 10spd chain on your 1x9 system and you can take off the chain device. Even if you don't have clutch, chain retention will be good. At least with my rings. I have a lot of people using it in that manner. One of my bikes is still 1x9 and I can ride proper "enduro" with no worry about dropping the chain.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

JLMBiker said:


> i run my oval exactly as Soul suggested (32 when i push and 36 on the dead spots) for the last 6 month and very happy with it (it really helps standing on the bike in a steep uphills)


So change it like it should be and whole world of better experience will open!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Saul- I respect your opinion. Really do, and always read to the end. I get what you are saying, but can't agree with it. It's one of those times I don't know even what to answer you. 

At the end of the day it's your bike and your choice. Just please put it first the way I suggest and try.
I have tried different setups of my own design (natural curiosity) and rode other rings. 90deg to what I recommend was really bad. Especially going up.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Saul Lumikko said:


> ^ Yes: dead spots are terrible in terms of power output anyways, so it doesn't matter much if they have a higher gearing. The benefit of higher gearing at the dead spot is that the legs change direction more slowly.


This is where your logic is not correct. 
In dead spot there is only ONE muscle involved (in power zone - 3 big ones). So moving your legs slowly in this moment strain the muscle and your joints a lot. This is the exact reason people complained on knees with Biopace.

Now, engineering logic would tell you that in such moment (dead spot) you have to move legs quicker with certain momentum, so you don't have to put much of the force. This is the reason in dead spot we use 30T and in power zone 34T. As pushing on the powerzone gives you momentum and once you pass the powerzone and go to dead zone leg accelerates a bit, so you don't have to strain muscles as you overcome it with greater speed= shorter time in dead spot with less hassle.

This is the whole idea about good oval rings.

Look at the picture below. I had to use Rotor image as they presented it in very understandable way. This is the ultimate proof of what I am writing here.
Now think again what you said and what I wrote. Which method will give you smoother ride and put less strain to your legs?


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Please tehan! Let me know what would be the lowest price that I can find? I want it (32t). Where to buy?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

our website. There is just one price. Because of enormous interest in these products no shop will do you a discount as there is less stock than orders.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Order placed for my new SS build, I like supporting small businesses and can't wait to try it out for myself.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

Correct me if i am wrong, but I think the number of tooth contact are the same on all angles for *single speed* drivetrain (without derailleur mounted tensioner).

And since the number of tooth contact doesn't change, I don't think it will benefit the SS crowd.

I think this is more beneficial to geared riders. Do a tangent measurement and compare surface contact on all angles.


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## michaelscott (May 23, 2011)

Saul Lumikko said:


> I plan to install it 90° opposite to manufacturer recommendation, because that way the dead centers (where legs switch direction) is the smoothest, and I get the easiest gearing at the spot where my legs produce most power. Why that way? Because on a SS bike when you stall for a moment and continue, you level the cranks and go from there. It makes sense to have easiest gearing when you try to start moving from standstill. Once you hit dead centers, you are already moving and it'll be easier to overcome - like a flywheel.


This doesn't make sense to me Saul. I can understand why you would want an easy start from stalling on a hill, but if that is the case you are also saying you want it positioned harder where your spin is the weakest. I would guess you might cause yourself to stall out with such a set up.

But hey- if you've been running Biopace on your SS mounted this way and your like it than who am I to judge.

The way the AB mount position is advised makes sense to me.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

It does not make any sense to me, but I'm lazy about centering front ring and it has loose and tight spots. So, I may as well try one of these. It really sounds fun to try, and if I like it, sweet.


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

this is quite interesting.. I wonder how can i order as I'am in the philippines?

this is like the rotary engine of mazda!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

fishcreek said:


> Correct me if i am wrong, but I think the number of tooth contact are the same on all angles for *single speed* drivetrain (without derailleur mounted tensioner).
> 
> And since the number of tooth contact doesn't change, I don't think it will benefit the SS crowd.
> 
> I think this is more beneficial to geared riders. Do a tangent measurement and compare surface contact on all angles.


If I understand it correctly(ish)...
There's exactly the same benefit for geared as single speed.
It's the equivalent diameter at the tangent points (chain pickup points) that's the important bit.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

fishcreek said:


> Correct me if i am wrong, but I think the number of tooth contact are the same on all angles for *single speed* drivetrain (without derailleur mounted tensioner).
> 
> And since the number of tooth contact doesn't change, I don't think it will benefit the SS crowd.
> 
> I think this is more beneficial to geared riders. Do a tangent measurement and compare surface contact on all angles.


I know it will take a while to get it for all of you, but eventually you will understand.

Number of contact points does not change - correct. Which means that chain tension almost does not change. To be very precise it changes but not more than 1-1.5mm. When you have a bit loose chain on your SS you will have at least 3mm slack.

What is changing is the leverage on this chainring. Chain is always pulled at a top of the ring no matter in what position is your cranks. Since we are changing diameters of the ring using an oval, this leverage changes over 360deg. So speaking simply there are points where lever is big (diameter of 34T) and there are points the lever is small (diameter of 30T ring). Small lever= less effort. Big lever = bigger effort.
Position these points smartly on the circumference and you have the a ring when helps you push where you can push and decrease the effort where you can't pus/pull much.

There is a big benefit for both geared and SS, but SS gets a bit more (hence I wrote unfair advantage). Reason for it is you have only one cog. Using oval you kind of gain 2 chainrnigs on the front. A power and speed of 34T, but the easiness of 30/32T when going up. Of course it's not like that entirely, but this is "kind" of feeling you can expect.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> If I understand it correctly(ish)...
> There's exactly the same benefit for geared as single speed.
> It's the equivalent diameter at the tangent points (chain pickup points) that's the important bit.


YES a simple mathematic rule of leverage.


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## alixta (Dec 27, 2006)

First ride on my 1x11 Ripley with Oval 32T yesterday, I usually run an xx1 30T front.

In the first few km of tarmac commute to trails it felt pretty weird on the upstroke as the leverage reduced, but apart from that I got used to it quickly. On the tarmac I felt my pedal stroke was a bit smoother, but that could well have been me overthinking it.

Once I hit the trails the standout for me was the added traction up granny gear loose climbs, heaps of traction and the front end never wanted to pop up. That to me says heaps about how the chainring smoothes out the power pulses in the pedal stroke. After 90+km and over 2000m of climbing I'm a believer.

So if you've read this far about my geared bike in the SS forum thanks  I'm also a dead keen singlespeeder and can't wait to try out this concept without gears. I didn't notice a big difference in standing pedaling, but given all the gears & gadgets my Ripley has I don't often need to.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

I've run rotor rings on several bikes for the past few years. The first time I tried one was on the road for a few weeks. Initially I wasn't convinced I liked it more. So I switched back to round rings and it was only then found I didn't like round as much as the Rotor rings. The difference is subtle but Rotor rings just felt more natural to me. I currently have them on my SS mtb, CX bikes and road bike. However they seem to make the biggest difference at lower cadence. 

It's funny how hard it is to prove anything. There are many possible arguments for or against anything and without a very strong science background it's impossible to know what argument has been applied correctly. I'm posting this to try to help people, I don't think you will know if you like it until you try it. The price in dollars to try this is much lower than Rotor rings which by the way are expensive and wear quickly.

I've also tried an Osymetric ring and it was a little too much for me. I never wanted to go easy with it, just hammer all the time. The clocking and percentage of ovality are key.

All that said I'll buy one of the absolute black rings before next season regardless but would request a 30T Sram spyderless with a few percentage points more ovality.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

tehan said:


> Saul- I respect your opinion. Really do, and always read to the end. I get what you are saying, but can't agree with it. It's one of those times I don't know even what to answer you.
> 
> At the end of the day it's your bike and your choice. Just please put it first the way I suggest and try.
> I have tried different setups of my own design (natural curiosity) and rode other rings. 90deg to what I recommend was really bad. Especially going up.


When I find it difficut to reply to people, I read or listen to them with a purpose to understand them, but not necessarily change their opinion. I'm fine with "agree to disagree", and I will try your ring as you suggested.



tehan said:


> This is where your logic is not correct.
> In dead spot there is only ONE muscle involved (in power zone - 3 big ones). So moving your legs slowly in this moment strain the muscle and your joints a lot. This is the exact reason people complained on knees with Biopace.


The dead spot is called dead for a reason: it offers little value to power output. There is one muscle doing the work primarily - you are correct - but there's also the flywheel effect of momentum. This way I don't have to push the top pedal forwards and bottom pedal backwards that hard: as long as I don't resist pedal movement, it's good. I also apply this to the pedal in the rear position: I don't pull it up. I just move my foot along the arc the pedal is going anyways. Because I'm not applying a lot of force at the dead spot, my knees should be safe. I think if you apply a lot of force while in the dead spot, it could cause knee problems no matter how the oval ring is oriented - or even if you have a round ring.

Fans of the "constant force" spinning technique will disagree with this - and they would probably have knee problems with this setup. I focus more on the power stroke and "feather" the pedals everywhere else to keep things smooth and efficient.

One thing to note is that my application of this is SS mountain biking on rather technical trails. It's a very different environment compared to a road cyclist who maintains a steady cadence on smooth surfaces. From all that I've read I would probably use an oval ring in an "anti-Biopace" orientation on the road with gears - that's where all the scientific studies are made - but my application is a different beast.

In the end of the day I'm riding a rigid SS bike on trails so I want to be clear I'm not a performance-oriented racer. My focus is on the experience itself and how I feel on the bike.

Anyways I appreciate the comments and I'm glad that oval rings are available with modern tech (aluminum, Narrow-Wide teeth, 104 BCD) so I can experiment further. (As soon as you release the 34t.)


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

solo-x said:


> So if the guy selling the stuff generated the charts for you, THEN you'd believe him?


If the guy provided some data, and cited how the data was generated, I'd be able to do some evaluation. Till then, he might as well be selling bridges.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

justin_amador said:


> If the guy provided some data, and cited how the data was generated, I'd be able to do some evaluation. Till then, he might as well be selling bridges.


You have been involved in this thread throughout, including on page 3 where a very good scientific study on oval chain rings was linked. 
I don't think you want data, I think you have a personal problem. You can do all the evaluation you want. Don't expect someone to spoon feed it to you.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Saul Lumikko said:


> The dead spot is called dead for a reason: it offers little value to power output. There is one muscle doing the work primarily - you are correct - but there's also the flywheel effect of momentum.


Thing I can't agree with is that " flywheel effect". With relatively small differences in speed(in different points of the stroke) you get from oval ring there is no flywheel effect you think about. Flywheels are effective only at high speeds (higher than any one pedals). With speeds you have on mtb SS you will most likely stall like some others were already suggesting.

So before we go any further here I would really recommend you Saul to try both setups and you can come back and tell us your experience. That way we will have some real experience to talk about. Biopace was also very different shape to oval, so if you had experience with them you will be surprised with mine.


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## DPeper (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm still waiting for the ASS to do that review I heard about. When is he giving his two cents on the matter?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

DPeper said:


> I'm still waiting for the ASS to do that review I heard about. When is he giving his two cents on the matter?


Once we get some stock he will get one. I already spoke with him for you


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## Ben_Im (Mar 3, 2012)

Hey Tehan,

Love everything you guys make. Have you guys done any testing to see if there are any clearance issues on eccentric bottom brackets? Especially concerned about the chain rings rubbing on the chain stays at the "largest" point of the ring if the crank just so happens to be in the furthest back position to achieve proper chain tension. I know Niner only recommends a 36t front chain ring if the crankset is in the all the way forward position - wonder if this would be a problem with a 34t oval ring.


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

Tehan

Thanks for getting on board with oval wide - narrow rings. I've been a long time user of Q-rings, but have been disappointed that they don't offer wide - narrow rings in standard BCD sizes, so switching would have meant buying their chainset too (or Sram XX1 with adaptor), so rotor have now lost my business. Unfortunately your post is a few months too late, and i found another supplier for Wide - narrow 104 BCD oval rings (though was more expensive). I'll try one of yours when my current rings wear out.

Question - what material are you using?
Also, with a wide - narrow ring, is it possible to use less chain tension on a singlespeed with less risk of chain dropping?


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

^ I would think so, especially if paired with NW cog having same design.

I'm also very interested about AB's NW oval but little worried about dialing it properly for my preferred ride which is recumbent. Went forward and bought Rotor REX 2.1 crankset with 34t QX1 oval and had little fun relocating spider to get ring properly dialed.

As AB ring has fixed four mounting holes crankset with removable spider is needed, or better yet to use XX1 or S-Works which takes direct mount rings, latter goes to different position as REX did.

Sent from Lumia phone using Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

every frame is a bit different so usually user know what is biggest ring he can put on. 

32T oval has biggest diameter like 34T
34T oval has biggest diameter like 36T

So if you mount 32T oval expect it to be as big as 34T round chainring. If someone is uncertain if such a such size will fit, just send me an email and I will give you exact dimentions so you could check yourself. 
In 99% of cases 32 and 34T oval rings will fit with easy. up to 36T round ring is a standard size of the chainrnig so every frame will take it.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We use the strongest alu commercially available on the market. 7075 Txxxx (I never tell what exactly
Our rings already have reputation of lasting about 2 years with many of our customers (original Sram will last about 5-6months for comparison). Key to longevity is great material and great shape of teeth. I just got a reply from one of my dealers that my ring after 12 months of use is actually thicker in certain dimensions than new ring from brand ... . 

With N/W design you can use less tension if you want, but you will have to use 10spd chain in order to make sure chain will not go off. Main reason I do advertise N/W solution in SS is longevity! You just get longer life out of the ring as there is much more material on the teeth(of course I am speaking here about my brand not others).

Reason we do N/W cogs is the fact that many very light frames require chain tensioner (as no horizontal dropouts) in order to work an frame itself flexes. So to get rid of that horrible popping sound of the chain when migrates (when you pedal hard) you use a narrow/wide cog and all goes away. Ideally you should also use 10spd chain. But in many cases even 9spd works fine - this is what i found from customers.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

yes with a recumbent bike you would need different position. But I also do not think a 32T will be ok for this application


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Hello Tehan... would you please compare it with the ridea m4s1 chainring? 
Thank you!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

They say they have "duo-oval" design, but when measuring the ring from few flat photos I found it is single oval. 
Their clocking is also different to mine. It is "to early" with the biggest diameter of the ring. Such design has been already used by few companies I know and it was not very popular.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

Dammit, now I have to build another single speed.


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## mhelander (May 9, 2014)

tehan said:


> yes with a recumbent bike you would need different position. But I also do not think a 32T will be ok for this application


Maybe it could. Did consider that when ordering QX1 but I'm frequently needing 11t & 12t cogs while racing, and 34t is biggest barely taking me on top of steepest climbs.

Anyways good to have quality alternatives to Rotor and when figuring out 104 BCD 172.5mm crankset might reconsider which rings to mount. For sure rings are oval and seems that NW works wonders even when Type2 clutch seems to suffer with my mileage...


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

Anyone know anyone who has run an AB oval ring on a Quarq XX1 crankset? Any reason why an oval ring would be a problem with a crank-based power meter?


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

ChicagoTim said:


> Anyone know anyone who has run an AB oval ring on a Quarq XX1 crankset? Any reason why an oval ring would be a problem with a crank-based power meter?


No I use Oval rings with my SRM's but they can inflate your power readings.

With oval chainrings, their #1 goal is to mess with this velocity. They cause your crank velocity to change during each pedal stroke, so you spend more or less time in certain parts of that pedal stroke. For example, they may want you to spend more time - slow the crank down - during the main 'power phase'.

While we don't want to dive too deep into this topic, the net effect is that you'll get slightly inflated power numbers using an oval ring on a crank-based power meter. How much this gets inflated depends on how odd-shaped your ring is (the 'less-round' it is, the more your power will read high). How high are we talking? Through the course of my research, I heard anywhere from 0.5% to 4%. I did not have any non-round rings during my testing, so I can't make a claim based on personal experience.

Just for fun, let's say your power meter quotes +/- 1.5% accuracy. At 200 actual watts, that means your displayed power output could be 197 to 203. If your oval chainrings adds another 1.5% on top of that, we have a net of +/- 3%. On the high end, that would tell you that you're putting out 206 watts, when you're actually putting out 200. If you haven't set your zero offset in three weeks, it could drift much farther than that. Did you PR on your Strava segment, or just get bad data?

Power Meter 301 - Slowtwitch.com


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

tehan said:


> So before we go any further here I would really recommend you Saul to try both setups and you can come back and tell us your experience. That way we will have some real experience to talk about. Biopace was also very different shape to oval, so if you had experience with them you will be surprised with mine.


This is precisely what I intend to do.


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

Re: power meters and oval rings. Kinda what I was thinking: PMs measure torque and RPM and calculate power. Torque is probably measured continually (or at very frequent intervals) but RPM is probably measured only once per revolution, on the assumption that the ring is round. Or maybe more frequently, but probably averaged for calculation. In either case that would skew the output in the way you describe.

Of course hub-based PMs would avoid that problem.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Crank based powermeter will inflate a bit the reading. Our oval ring is of relatively small ovality, so change will not be big. Up to 2% maybe.
But will this matter? Average PM crank will have at least 1.5% inaccuracy if you "reset" it frequently. So on top of that you will get let say 2% from the oval ring. That will give you 3.5% max. 
If you train frequently, it really does not matter as you look at a trend and not at exact value. If you change your position on the bike your reading will change as well as far as I know, because your muscles will have to adapt to it.


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## dirtbyte (Aug 23, 2011)

TacoBeer said:


> I am very interested in this, I am just waiting for someone I know to try them out first and give a review. The price seems fair but I won't pay that for something I haven't heard about from real user reviews. Plus I am always weary of items that are not sold in local bike shops. (aka; in stock)


I plan on ordering one soon... I will let you know how it goes  Might even let you "demo" it


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## mrawesome234100 (Aug 16, 2014)

I think the ring reduces fatigue, not increases power. However, as you get tired, it would increase power because you will be less tired than if you had a round.


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> You have been involved in this thread throughout, including on page 3 where a very good scientific study on oval chain rings was linked.
> I don't think you want data, I think you have a personal problem. You can do all the evaluation you want. Don't expect someone to spoon feed it to you.


You're absolutely right - a guy who has presumably quantified the effects of the design changes to a drive system to increase speed output without increase power output would be spoon feeding it to me if he were to provide a baseline input vs. output graph and an oval ring input vs. output graph. Crazy talk. I'm not expecting "someone" to spoon feed it to me - just the guy making the claims. Of course, maybe he just didn't validate his design; he's going to let you do it for him - after you give him your money.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

Tehan, do you have plans of producing oval spiderless SRAM in 30t or 28t?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

mrawesome234100 said:


> I think the ring reduces fatigue, not increases power. However, as you get tired, it would increase power because you will be less tired than if you had a round.


Kind of This is why I wrote many times that you do not generate more power, but go faster. As with such a ring you can maintain same level of effort for longer, so in course of a ride you will be faster(ring will not increase your power - it will help to maintain it on same level). On top of that you have various leverages of the ring, so your speed will increase a bit if you want it or not.

This is really complicated topic if you look for a deep understanding as there is a lot of variables which change compared to round ring.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

If I get more requests then yes. 32T oval suits people who ride currently 28, 30 and 32T round ring. So we cover a lot with just one.

If you ride a 28T now and feel it's on the border to decrease to 26T, then 32T oval is not for you. But if you ride 28T and think of moving to 30T then 32T oval will be good.

current users of 30 and 32T - this is no brainer. You just swap to oval 32T and feel the joy.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

I think we should demand that the frame and fork manufacturers provide test results proving the stiffness differences for 44mm and larger head tubes, tapered steerer tubes, and 15mm through axles. Oh, right, we accept THAT at face value...

Anyway, I'm ordering my direct mount oval ring right now. $66 for a product that I'm not sure if it will work for me or not is nothing compared to the $1k forks that I have to make the same assumption that there IS a benefit with.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

tehan said:


> Kind of This is why I wrote many times that you do not generate more power, but go faster.


I know you know physics, so you know that going faster takes more power.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Things like this are just too complicated for us to understand, therefore we should just listen to tehan and buy, buy, BUY!!!


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

I am no physicist, but isn't this an issue of EFFICIENCY and not POWER? If I understand this concept correctly, it appears that this may be more EFFICIENT because it in effect reduces the "dead spot" in your pedal stroke--i.e. it takes less time to move through the part of the stroke where you have the least power. Same power + more efficient = faster. ...right? Or did Mr. Miller not teach me well enough?


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

skankingbiker said:


> I am no physicist, but isn't this an issue of EFFICIENCY and not POWER? If I understand this concept correctly, it appears that this may be more EFFICIENT because it in effect reduces the "dead spot" in your pedal stroke--i.e. it takes less time to move through the part of the stroke where you have the least power. Same power + more efficient = faster. ...right? Or did Mr. Miller not teach me well enough?


That would be correct if power was lost somewhere along the drivetrain, but I think he's saying that these make you faster with the same power measured at the hub. Am I wrong tehan?


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

OK, bear with me. I've been thinking this through.

Power in a rotational system boils down to torque times revolutions per unit of time, right? Well, if you compare, theoretically, a 34t round ring to a 32t ellipse, where the ellipse has radii that vary from 34t equivalent to 30t, then, a rider who generates the same force at the same pedal position with either system, will be producing similar momentary power in the power phase on both systems (~34t) but will move through the 'dead zone' quicker on the elliptical, increasing net revolutions per unit of time. The improvements in quickness around the ring will come primarily during the 'dead zone' and thus will have a minimal impact on cumulative torque. You end up producing almost as much cumulative torque, but at a faster RPM, which actually does mean more power.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

smilinsteve said:


> I know you know physics, so you know that going faster takes more power.


You are catching me by words on this one. If your fatigue is smaller thanks to the oval ring, you can maintain same level of power for longer. This will equal to a bit faster lap for example on the race.

This is what many studies do not show. Most of them are done in TT or very short distance like 1km. Many studies are focused on proving of an increased power.
But the real benefit is in long rides where you will get tired and your efficiency is dropping.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

So they don't increase FTP, but they would increase average power over a longer period, say 2 hours?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> Things like this are just too complicated for us to understand, therefore we should just listen to tehan and buy, buy, BUY!!!


Each reputable bike magazine worldwide already got in contact about testing my oval. I will provide a chainring to each of them. So you should see reviews in about 4-6weeks. I am not able to convince everyone myself and I understand that. Hence I will send a chainrnig to every magazine who asks for it.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

skankingbiker said:


> I am no physicist, but isn't this an issue of EFFICIENCY and not POWER? If I understand this concept correctly, it appears that this may be more EFFICIENT because it in effect reduces the "dead spot" in your pedal stroke--i.e. it takes less time to move through the part of the stroke where you have the least power. Same power + more efficient = faster. ...right? Or did Mr. Miller not teach me well enough?


Its all about power if you are going faster. It's easy to see if you forget about trying to analyze what is happening at the crank and just think about the bike.

Power is energy/time

The energy of the bike is 1/2 MV**2 plus the energy of the wheels(IW**2). This is true no matter how you pedaled. Faster means more energy which means you had to produce more power.

Looking at it from a work point of view 
Work to move your bike = F*D which is an energy term that shows that it takes the same energy to go a mile whether it takes you a minute or an hour (idealized). But energy per unit time is power and the faster you go, the more power it takes.

Back to the crank, these comments about efficiency and dead spots etc are theories of how you can create more power.

Muscles work more or less efficiently depending on the application. For example, I can squat more weight with my feet at shoulder width, than with my feet together. 
Doing the max number of squats might be best achieved with a different foot position than for a max weight single.

So it makes sense to try and optimize the use of muscles in the leg for best efficiency. To go the same speed you have to generate the same energy, but if you generate the energy in a more optimum ergonomic way, your body can perform better with more endurance, less fatigue, and more potential power output.

Not selling oval rings, that's just my take on the theory.


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## bycyclist (Oct 13, 2008)

Well it's not exactly like a huge risk to try out. I'm game if it improves my ride. Ordering one to try out on my SS - to replace my current 32T ti chainring.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

ChicagoTim said:


> OK, bear with me. I've been thinking this through.
> 
> Power in a rotational system boils down to torque times revolutions per unit of time, right? Well, if you compare, theoretically, a 34t round ring to a 32t ellipse, where the ellipse has radii that vary from 34t equivalent to 30t, then, a rider who generates the same force at the same pedal position with either system, will be producing similar momentary power in the power phase on both systems (~34t) but will move through the 'dead zone' quicker on the elliptical, increasing net revolutions per unit of time. The improvements in quickness around the ring will come primarily during the 'dead zone' and thus will have a minimal impact on cumulative torque. You end up producing almost as much cumulative torque, but at a faster RPM, which actually does mean more power.


Much better than how I tried to express it.


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## ManRam (Oct 2, 2014)

Was gonna order a 30T chainring but im glad i stumbled on this post. Order submitted


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

ManRam said:


> Was gonna order a 30T chainring but im glad i stumbled on this post. Order submitted


You'll be happy with it, I came off of a 30 T


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## Huntro (Mar 30, 2012)

Can I get on a mailing list for release of the 34t in SRAM GXP spiderless? I saw your post that they would be available next month, however my money is burning a hole in my pocket now.


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## asphaltdude (Sep 17, 2008)

skankingbiker said:


> I am no physicist, but isn't this an issue of EFFICIENCY and not POWER?


It is. It doesn't make the BIKE more efficient though, but it might make the RIDER more efficient.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

im gona drink the kool aid, mine is on order


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

I found another relevant academic paper: http://www.me.utexas.edu/~neptune/Papers/job41(7).pdf.

The gist of this one is that the benefit of elliptical rings is that it increases duration in the power phase, while decreasing duration in the transition phase, resulting in increased average power, and more work done, by about 2.9%:

"The increase in crank power was the result of the optimal chainring shape acting to slow down the crank angular velocity during the power phase, which allowed muscles to generate power longer and produce more external work."

However, it looks like what this paper suggests would be optimal orientation is different from what Rotor and Absolute Black are doing by about 30°:


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

A little more investigation: A white paper on Rotor's site explains that having the high point come a little later in the crank rotation allows momentum to get the leg further into the power phase before slowing things down. I guess that makes sense. And that would apply to the Absolute Black design as well.

I ordered a Rotor QX1 32t ring and spider for my XX1 crank a few days ago, about the same time I found this thread. It should arrive today, so I'll be experimenting with an elliptical ring starting this weekend.


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

sweet titay! any companies making a spiderless/directmount version of this?


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Tehan... Marcin told me there was 4000 orders like mine. When do you think I am getting my chainring?


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

I ordered earlier today and it said shipping Oct 10.


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## jnr_seahorse (Feb 8, 2010)

ChicagoTim said:


> However, it looks like what this paper suggests would be optimal orientation is different from what Rotor and Absolute Black are doing by about 30°:


What are the angles that Rotor and Absolute Black are using?


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

My understanding is that Rotor is at 108° for "position 3" which is in the middle of their adjustability range. That's the angle forward from the top of the ellipse to the crank arm. I remarked that it looked like about 30° different from what the paper was proposing, based on eyeballing the diagram from the paper, but my estimate was off. The text of the paper mentions 92° for 90rpm cadence, as being optimum based on their study. So that's only 16° different.

I think I read early in this thread that orientation for Absolute Black's rings is similar to Rotor's.

Incidentally, I installed a Rotor QX1 ring and spider on my XX1 crankarm today. The 32t QX1 ring is 8g heavier than the 32t XX1, but the Rotor spider is 4g lighter than XX1, so only 4g difference overall.


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## mango12 (Sep 5, 2009)

Tehran, if one is currently riding 32/19, could you drop to 32/17 and work feel the same?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mango12 said:


> Tehran, if one is currently riding 32/19, could you drop to 32/17 and work feel the same?


From what I understand, 32/18 oval would feel like 32/19 round.


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

*test results*

So I did my first ride with the elliptical ring this morning. About 15 miles on paved trails with ventures off onto a couple steep knolls to test out climbing. (The real trails are too muddy to ride right now.) I can't say with any confidence that I was faster or more powerful, because I don't have an objective way of measuring that. But I can report on the subjective aspects of the experience.

First, at the beginning, it felt a little weird, like my rhythm was wonky. But that went away quickly. I'd say that by 15 minutes in, it felt natural and comfortable. After that, the sense was almost like I was pedaling at two different cadences. In terms of pedaling rhythm, I felt like I was doing 80rpm, which is kind of my comfort zone. But it also felt like I was pushing a bigger gear in that I felt those longer slower power strokes you feel when you gear up a bit, like 70rpm. So, the rhythm of 80rpm with the power sensation of 70rpm, is one way to describe it.

Cranking up a hill at low rpm, it felt like the gap between one power stroke and the next was tightened up, like each power stroke flowed into the next one more smoothly. This seems like it could be the primary benefit, at least in terms of how it feels: smoother power delivery at low cadences. Significant for climbing off-road.

The flip side is that at high cadence, at that point where you start bouncing, where it starts to feel like your legs are struggling to keep up with the crank, that point comes a bit sooner. Doesn't seem like a big problem to me, though. You either coast at that point or gear up.

I was prepared to put the round ring back on if I didn't like it, or even if I couldn't discern a meaningful difference. But I can discern a difference, and so far, I think I like it. So it's staying on. Looking forward to getting out on singletrack next week, if the weather cooperates.


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## jnr_seahorse (Feb 8, 2010)

Hi Tehan,

Are you able to confirm the angle you are using for the offset between the top of the oval and the cranks?

Thanks


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Huntro said:


> Can I get on a mailing list for release of the 34t in SRAM GXP spiderless? I saw your post that they would be available next month, however my money is burning a hole in my pocket now.


We will launch 34T 104bcd as first one out of 34T size. Then spiderless version will come. So please be a bit patient


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ChicagoTim said:


> A little more investigation: A white paper on Rotor's site explains that having the high point come a little later in the crank rotation allows momentum to get the leg further into the power phase before slowing things down. I guess that makes sense. And that would apply to the Absolute Black design as well.


This is correct. Crank needs to be below the level when you have your biggest oval axis in vertical position. Humans have a certain reaction delays, so what works in mathematical system (or mechanical engine) is not exactly same as in real test on human. Hence clocking is moved down by certain degree.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Some frames have very tight chainring tolerance, unable to fit a ring larger than 32t with intended centered chainline. I assume that the 32t oval needs the clearance of a 34t, and the 34t version needs the clearance of a 36t?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jnr_seahorse said:


> Hi Tehan,
> 
> Are you able to confirm the angle you are using for the offset between the top of the oval and the cranks?
> 
> Thanks


I can't tell exactly due to competition. But we are very close to Rotor one. So what applies to Rotor in studies will apply to my rings.

Even Rotor do not disclose it fully. Every chainring they produce has a bit different clocking. Road will be different to mtb and CX. Different sizes will have also different clocking. They say ballpark is in 108deg.The more uneven cadence you have the more it has to be optimized. Hence on the road this angle needs to be different to mtb chainring.

What I can tell is only Rotor and me have made clocking that way. 
OneKey chainringring has 135deg which is almost on the downstroke (to late), Ridea has 90deg (cranks flat like on the picture from the top of this page). Other chainrigns like old EGG, O'symetric have cranks above the level when biggest axis of the oval is vertical. Doval has some adjustability, but many people install it incorrectly (something like old Biopace). Biopace in this nomenclature had 0deg (biggest radius of oval is where cranks are)

As you can see there are few different solutions out there. Each of them will have a completely different feeling when riding. Till today only Rotor holds a strong position and rest of them are in decline.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Varaxis said:


> Some frames have very tight chainring tolerance, unable to fit a ring larger than 32t with intended centered chainline. I assume that the 32t oval needs the clearance of a 34t, and the 34t version needs the clearance of a 36t?


yes that is correct. For fitting purposes treat oval 32T as 34 round and oval 34T as 36T round chainrnig.


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

Tehan what if you run a threaded freewheel with the chain line way to the outside
can you run it on the outside of the cranks? I realize this would put the ring backwards.
Will this still work?
Thanks
Dan


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Hey, I just bought one of these. All the haters in this thread - geez. I mean it was $83. Not $800 or even $8,000. You guys need to chill with all of your theories and "prove it" posts. 

Tehan must have explained it 10 times or more in these 8 pages. Don't like what he has to say, then move on. 

If it works great, I'll enjoy it. If not, I'll have some fun anyway with the experiment.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I'm excited to see what the reviews are from users here on MTBR. I may now put off buying regular ring if people end up liking these. I was thinking I could get a few more tooth count now that I have been on SS for about 3 years. ZERORT, keep us posted.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Just put another 20miles on my Absolute Black 32T N/W oval ring. Have moved it to my 29er with a Wolftooth 1x10 conversion.

Appreciate the extra speed of the 32T oval ring and the pedaling characteristics remaining close to a 30T.

Haven't decided which bike (AM 650b or XC 29er) it'll ultimately end up on. I'd say it feels very close to my 30T regular... but maybe it doesn't climb quuuuuuiiiiiiiite as easy as the 30T? Maybe, maybe not. That's really splitting hairs though. Hell, the differences felt day over day could simply be me having a bad day, tired from the day before, or had drank too much beer the night before.

So let me put it this way... I've climbed everything on the 32T oval ring that I could previously climb on the 30T.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

Not sure if posted or not: WINNING BIKE: Fabien Barel's Canyon Strive CF - Mountain Biking Pictures - Vital MTB

Hopefully clears up some of the skepticism around oval chainrings, especially since Fabian won the EWS after coming back from breaking his back. I will be ordering the 34t for my singlespeed as soon as it's ready.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

I've been endurance XC racing competitively for the last two years on non round rings. As has been stated, the real benefit to these rings is the reduction in fatigue in a long race or ride. I initially was using Qrings and have recently switched to Doval rings on all three of my bikes as I like the shape of these rings better. They feel more bio-mechanically correct. But I am interested in what Absolute Black has to offer. Their rings look well engineered and manufactured. Doval retention system is a little problematic (it puts two ring bolts in tension rather than sheer and this causes some warping). I also like the fixed phase approach AB is taking as this simplifies things and allows a spiderless ring. Personally, I like a little later phase on the power stroke (around 5 o'clock on the pedal stroke), but the 4 o'clock position that AB uses would be fine as well. I would like to see a 34t option on all rings. This is what I currently use on my MTB bikes in a 1x10 setup. 34t definitely rides like a 32t, though you have the power output of a 36t. I know this sounds unbelievable, but you really have to try it to believe. And by try it, I mean go hard for 4 or 5 hours on your bike and you'll be amazed at the power you have at the end of the ride. Properly phased non round rings work!


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

mrawesome234100 said:


> scroll to page 33 for the rankings, and increased power amount.
> question is, which design is the absolute black ring?


Most similar to the QRing. Doval is similar to the LM-Super.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

Burgunder said:


> Scientific study of oval chainrings http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/Biomechanical study chainrings - release 2.pdf


It's a fascinating write up, but I feel they got the phasing of the ovality backwards. Where they show the optimal diagrams, the crank should be rotating clockwise, yet they show it rotating counter clockwise. This makes no sens as this puts the optimal where the crank is at a 2 o'clock position when in the power zone. From my experience, it should be past 3 o'clock. 4 or 5 o'clock is optimal.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

So what is the deal with chain getting loose and tight? Is it irritating on a singlespeed without a tensioner? How bad is it?


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

hoolie said:


> So what is the deal with chain getting loose and tight? Is it irritating on a singlespeed without a tensioner? How bad is it?


It doesn't get loose and tight. See a discussion of this earlier in the thread. The number of teeth engaged by the ring stays constant throughout the rotation. Any slight variance that results from small changes to the angle of the chain is negligible.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

hi everyone.
Tehan... what would you say about the chainline? I need to set my chainring in the center of the cassette or maybe closer to the small cassette sprocket given that in smallest sprocket chain makes more contact with the chainring?
TY


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## jnr_seahorse (Feb 8, 2010)

I too have been riding and racing with Rotor Q-rings for 2 years. All my bikes are switched across now - off-road, geared and on the road bike. In terms of feedback I can't really go on anything but the 'feel', but I certainly prefer them to round rings. I seem to be able to stay on top of the gear for longer and keep spinning. For a single speed this means more speed and easier climbing, which is where the effect is most pronounced for me.

Going back to round rings now feels totally strange, slow and very tiring.

If Absolute Black are similar to Rotor I'll hold out for a direct mount version to fit my Race Face Next SL cranks.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

michael9218 said:


> It's a fascinating write up, but I feel they got the phasing of the ovality backwards. Where they show the optimal diagrams, the crank should be rotating clockwise, yet they show it rotating counter clockwise. This makes no sens as this puts the optimal where the crank is at a 2 o'clock position when in the power zone. From my experience, it should be past 3 o'clock. 4 or 5 o'clock is optimal.


I think I see what you are saying. So for the Q ring for example, it shows the angle from the crank arm to the major axis of the ellipse as 74 degrees, and if it was rotating the opposite direction it would be 106 degrees. I don't know what the actual is, but I thought the max power point (with major axis vertical) was when the crank was a little below horizontal, which would correspond to 106 degrees.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This ring can be mounted only in one way, so you can't reverse it like you think.
For changing the chainline in your case I would think about changing the wheel for freehub solution or if you have older crank move some spacers on bb to accommodate for that.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

otsenresiul said:


> hi everyone.
> Tehan... what would you say about the chainline? I need to set my chainring in the center of the cassette or maybe closer to the small cassette sprocket given that in smallest sprocket chain makes more contact with the chainring?
> TY


This oval ring actually improves the chainline as you have build in 2mm spacers into the chainring. So it goes more towards the frame than standard one. That means it is more optimized for the granny gears...
It is same mounting concept as modern 104BCD 30T chainrings with integrated nut into the ring. So the ring has threads in the holes as well.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

From somebody with a MS in biomechanics, crank based and hub based power meter user and owner of of multiple non-circular chainrings.........oh, that's why I have no money!

1) It's not Biopace. Biopace was a bad idea. It would have been way ahead of its time if it could be flipped ~90 degrees 

2) This won't affect chain length of your SS. I use a Rotor 34t on a 26" SS and there are no issues with chain growth/shrinkage. The AB ring appears to be similar ovality, so it should not be an issue either.

3) Saul, you lose at internet.

4) If you have no experience with the product, stop bothering people.

The study constantly mentioned is mathematically sound, but doesn't take into account some physiology. It's just my opinion that the the crank/pedal should be just a little past 3 o'clock (Maybe 4'oclock?) on an optimal setup. It appears the Rotor SS 34t ring is close to that and it's currently my ring of choice for SS and 1x10. I like it on the #2 setting. The only reason I recently stumbled upon the Absolute Black ring was because I want to ditch the overbuilt MRP chain guide on my 1x10 and drop down to a 32t because I'm hitting the 36 a lot more than the 11 with my 34t. Seems like an easy decision if the "clocking" matches up with the Rotor ring.

I also use circular and non-circular chainrings on pavement. Osymetrics rotated 4 holes feels pretty awesome on a tri bike with an 80 degree effective SA.

The manufacturer that started this (poorly named) thread doesn't make any power improvement claims. *That's good, because I would not agree with them.* I think it feels more comfortable/natural within the first ride and allows me to pedal harder. That's the only place extra power would come from for me.

Watts are measured by the amount of work you do over time. Since non-circular chainrings speed up and slow down twice every revolution, I don't know if that throws noise into the 'over time' part of the equation, so you can search on your own for that. There are arguments that you are using larger muscles during power phases and flying through the "dead" spots. I think I agree.

I really wish that with the money invested into education, rings and a PM, I could come up with a better answer than "It feels better." This is especially true for me when standing to pedal.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Thanks.


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## Cygnus (Jan 7, 2004)

*perfect circles*

i experimented with a biopace chainring for a while years ago.

the longer i ride, the more i work on turning perfect circles. going oval would be a step back.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

Exactly. What I experienced in switching to non round rings was that at first a crank position closer to 3 o'clock, or even 2 o'clock, felt better. Probably because this was closer to the feel of a round ring. As I've gotten used to the non round rings, I find I put out more power longer when I retard the phasing and put the peak power at 4 - 5 o'clock. And to me, this makes sense as you seem to have more power in your legs as they approach full extension.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

I don't feel like the peak 'power phase' and 'dead spot' are 90 degrees from each other. It seems that the 'dead spot' comes pretty soon after the peak torque from the 'power phase' during knee extension.

Does anybody else feel like (if you could rotate the rings any amount you liked) that setting up non-circular rings is a choice between minimizing your weakness/dead spot or maximizing strengths/peak power phase?


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

pgm83 said:


> I don't feel like the peak 'power phase' and 'dead spot' are 90 degrees from each other. It seems that the 'dead spot' comes pretty soon after the peak torque from the 'power phase' during knee extension.


Totally agree with this. Though I have no education in bio-mechanics, this is my only criticism of single oval rings. It assumes that the power spot and dead spot are 90 degrees from each other and that the ramp up to the power spot should be the same as the ramp down to the dead spot. The dual oval corrects this. Your peak power spot ramps progressively and is later and then the ovality drops off rapidly into the dead spot. The result is a strange looking ring that feels much better during your pedal stroke. I find I can both pedal a lower cadence and a higher cadence with the dual oval. In fact, the high cadence is really different. Your stroke feels very smooth.

For a good example of a dual oval look at the LM Super in the abstract, or check out Doval rings.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

I have seen those names before, but didn't really pay attention. Rotors and Osy's (with a chainguard) seem to do just fine on the road, and 104bcd options were very limited until recently.

Figuring out how ideal duel designs are is probably more than my bank account and brain want are interested in 

I appreciate the lead Michael. I'll try to report back on the (expected) 32t oval on my new DB Sortie.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

Just waiting for November with my finger on the button to order the 34t ring.

I have questioned the thought of rapid movement through the dead spots causing a "whiplash" effect as Sheldon Brown called it. When you think of it the cranks remain the same so the legs, knees and feet are doing the same motion, just varying in angular speed. If you go through the dead spots more quickly, it is no different than having a lower gearing - and high cadence. I'm very much a spinner rather than a masher so I'm comfortable with high cadences and I have years of experience with high speed spinning with zero ill effects on the knees. So that's one imaginary problem less with oval rings. 

My main motivation for experimenting with these things is fun and comfort. The idea of an oval ring is appealing and it seems reasonable because our legs certainly don't provide stable output throughout crank revolutions, so why should the chainring be round? I might time some trails for reference to see if there's any change. If I feel better on the bike the times are likely to be reduced. I'm critical of any mathematical models and other theories, which fail to take into account our differences in anatomy and technique, and the fact that we are not riding on an even surface. Practical tests are easier to conduct and when I time myself on a trail, any change in performance will apply to me so I know it works (or if it doesn't).


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Saul Lumikko said:


> When you think of it the cranks remain the same so the legs, knees and feet are doing the same motion, just varying in angular speed. If you go through the dead spots more quickly, it is no different than having a lower gearing - and high cadence.


Varying in angular speed or maintaining the same speed with a lower force through the dead spot and higher force at the sweet spot.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

If you maintain the same angular speed of the cranks and only vary force with an oval ring, the bike will accelerate-decelerate-accelerate-decelerate _ad nauseam_.

Far better to maintain a steady speed of the bike by varying angular speed of the cranks - just like we turn the cranks at a steady speed with round rings. The force through the dead spots will be lower so you are correct about that.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Saul Lumikko said:


> If you maintain the same angular speed of the cranks and only vary force with an oval ring, the bike will accelerate-decelerate-accelerate-decelerate _ad nauseam_.
> 
> Far better to maintain a steady speed of the bike by varying angular speed of the cranks - just like we turn the cranks at a steady speed with round rings. The force through the dead spots will be lower so you are correct about that.


If that happens, I would think that it would be to an insignificant degree, thanks to momentum.

Its been a long time since I rode an oval ring (biopace), but I remember the criticism at the time was that it didn't allow smooth spinning, a problem for roadies especially, who trained themselves to spin smoothly.

But I always felt that I could spin smoothly with biopace, and when I switched to round, didn't feel any more smoothness or spinnyness.

So there may be one or the other going on, or both. That is, acceleration and deceleration of the crank arm, or of the bike, or both, but I think it all adds up to very little.

People will tend to keep a constant speed of their feet, and momentum will keep the bike at a constant speed (all more or less).

Force on the pedals, on the other hand probably varies around the circle, even with round rings, due to the ergonomics side of the equation.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

I think the literature and most bike fitters would support that torque (force into the pedal) varies more than the angular velocity (speed of the pedal) during cycling.


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## SHREDINATOR5000 (Jul 11, 2012)

How about a 102bcd version of this chainring for my M960 crankset?


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

the extra 2mm spacing's purpose is to put the chain ring inside the spider (shimano xt) enough so the chain doesn't rub....correct?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

nomit said:


> the extra 2mm spacing's purpose is to put the chain ring inside the spider (shimano xt) enough so the chain doesn't rub....correct?


Yep, because part of the ring is equivalent diameter to a 30t.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

pgm83 said:


> I think the literature and most bike fitters would support that torque (force into the pedal) varies *more than* the angular velocity (speed of the pedal) during cycling.


I highlighted the relevant part. Of course torque is what varies most.

My point is that with an oval ring the angular velocity of the crank *must* change, if you want to put force into the pedal through the whole revolution of the crank - even if the amount of force varies.

If you rotate the cranks at a steady velocity with an oval ring, you're actually coasting part of the time.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

I doubt the changes in angular velocity on a non circular ring vary more than that on a round ring. Since I am not aware of anybody measuring that, I guess we can't say for sure.

All we can do is compare it to a how round ring "feels" and have our neuromuscular system tell us round is the norm.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

If there is force applied to the pedal through one full revolution of the crank (so that the pawls of the freehub are engaged) and the bike moves at a steady speed, angular velocity of the cranks changes because the oval ring varies mechanical advantage. If you rotate the cranks at a steady velocity with an oval ring and the bike moves at a steady speed, you're actually coasting part of the time.

If the SS bike has a fixed drivetrain, it's even clearer: the bike _forces_ the angular velocity of the cranks to change, even if the rider doesn't actively do it. (Just like a fixed gear bike forces the cranks to move at a steady pace with a round ring.)

You can doubt and guess all you want, but this was covered already before you chimed in with your expertise in "losing at internet".



> The research also assumes a constant speed of the bicycle, which means a constant chain linear velocity.
> As a consequence a circular chainring has a constant angular velocity of the crank throughout one revolution.
> Non-circular chainrings have variations in angular crank velocity during one crank cycle: this means, the crank angular velocity is a function of time.
> 
> ...


http://www.noncircularchainring.be/pdf/Biomechanical study chainrings - release 2.pdf


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

You're referencing a paper that never involved a single cyclist or a bicycle. Refer back to the second sentence of my previous post.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

You're dismissing the fact that change in crank angular velocity is _unavoidable_ with a fixed drivetrain, and it happens also if the rider puts force into moving the pedals through a full circle of the cranks when the bike moves at a constant speed.

It's as clear cut as saying that a gear ratio of 34/20 requires cranks to spin faster than 30/20 when speed is constant. The difference can be calculated.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

You're the only one discussing fixed gear riding.....in an off-road forum.

You seem like a smart guy and you're into biking, I like you more than most of the population already. Let's not turn this into a pissing contest that has nothing to do with the thread. 

I ordered one of these rings and Marcin said it would ship in another week. Hopefully I can provide some feedback on it by the end of the month. I'm not too interested in using it in any configuration other than the intended one (since I like the Rotor position so much), so I look forward to reading about your findings. At least your methods include a bike and a rider instead of several dudes and matlab ;-)


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

And I do ride a fixed 29er on trails. I'll be glad to take some steps back and explain what I was trying to get across: 

- Earlier I said (parroting Sheldon Brown) that the orientation that makes dead spots easier would cause legs to change their up-down direction quickly and this "whiplash" could hurt knees. This was one of the points I used to support Biopace.
- I came to think of it and in the end the quick up-down motion of the legs at the dead spot is no different compared to a smaller round ring. The smaller round ring is of course light through the whole circle.
- Because I haven't found any ill effect to the knees from riding a light gear ratio at a high cadence, it stands to reason that the claimed "whiplash" effect is not real.

Basically I disproved my earlier worry about using the oval ring as the manufacturer and designer suggested, and will probably install it as advised without fear of hurting my knees.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Wanted just to write some update.
Most of the older orders were sent Thursday/Friday. We are just a bit slow with inputnig tracking numbers to the system. So most of you should receive it this week.

34T is on it's way! already manufactured and now in anodizing. We will open sales later next week... i will write here when this happens.


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## Chowder Head (Sep 26, 2010)

AB,

I'm holding out for the 36T. Any idea when those might be available.

Thank you,

Matt


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hopefully be end of the year. It is very difficult to design those ovals as it takes a lot of time and patience.


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

I'd try one out for about $30-35. $60? I'll tough it out on a round ring.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Fast Eddy said:


> I'd try one out for about $30-35. $60? I'll tough it out on a round ring.


For that price it might be round, but not narrow wide.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

I just ordered mine, how long of a turn around do you think.


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## cplagz (Jan 28, 2014)

vack said:


> I just ordered mine, how long of a turn around do you think.


Hopefully not long - still waiting on my order from 28th Sept


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

So I used a oval ring for almost two years. 38T rotor with a chain guide. Some things I notice compared to my current 36T round ring.

Climbing is easier on the bigger 38T rotor. Power comes on smoother and it doesn't feel like a 38, feels like a more refined version of my round 36. I'd just about say climbing on the 38 rotor with a 34 cog on the cassette was easier than my current 36/36

It feels like you have more power, with the rotor I would push a harder gear than on the round ring, I'd say it's like my pedaling was optimized and I found some free power.

It taught me to pedal smoother. The stroke is much more natural and feels more round than my round ring. Pulling up on the pedals occurs instinctly where on the round ring I had to think about it more. Now that I'm on a round ring again I can feel the un-eveness of it, but the technique I aquired while using the rotor stuck so I pedal well still. 

Endurance went up, a product of the better pedaling I suppose, but I was averaging about 1.5-2mph higher on my long flat rides. 

I also have a friend that uses a 55T ring on his road bike. He's got a Powermeter and speed/cadence sensor. He's averaging 2.5mph faster, about 50 watts more average power and his heart rate is an average of 15beats lower. 

With all that being said. I would love to get a 34T as soon as their available. 36 would be better if one is in the works.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

Do you make one in a 102 BCD for my modded XTR cranks?


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## outonmybike (Oct 24, 2009)

*Race Face has em cheaper*



smilinsteve said:


> For that price it might be round, but not narrow wide.


You can get the best dang NW rings on the market from Race Face for that cheap. And you don't have to pay for the marketing crud Absolute Black is spinning this thread along with. Ovals do nothing to improve performance. Maybe make you feel cozy with a "just right" pedal stroke, but I thought they felt choppy. Data doesn't support them to be beneficial in any manner. So the only reason you would buy them is for the "feel". Which I guess is why people buy carbon, so whatever floats your boat.


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## pedalpro (Nov 8, 2007)

Secret is finally out after many years of supernatural SS results. Add 2 teeth to your favorite chainring size and go crush it! Enjoy.


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

I guess all the data rotor puts out doesn't account for anything. And peoples personally collected data... And the amount of tour de France riders using the rotor oval rings, or the amount of elite triathletes running them.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

A small update. We have sent all the orders placed by 15th October this past Friday. So 95% of you should get it by end of this week and who lives more remotely few days later.
Orders placed from 15th Oct till today(21st) will ship in about a week. We really do what we can to make all happy.

I don't plan 102BCD for now as there is so many other important bcd/mounts to make first. 


Regards the price. 
Once you get the chainring you will realize that we charge only 66$ for that. Comparing our ring with Taiwanese products is not even worth the effort. This is NOT TW product with optimized process to make it as quick as possible (and not necessarily best). 
Our teeth profiles are one of the best on the market. We use 4 custom made drills to achieve such complex shapes. Just compare it to let say RF and you will understand the difference. More over, we guarantee 12 months of good chain retention on them if you ride geared. This is achievable because of the way we machine the teeth. There is much more material left compared to competition. On top of that we use stronger material than most of manufacturers. So on average my chainring will last you twice as long as RF one.

36T oval is in the works. But at the minute it's hard to say when exactly we will hve it.
34T was machined already so in about 2 weeks we will open sales. I will write it here when time comes.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Here is an instruction how to set up the oval on singlespeed.

position the crank between 3 & 4 o’clock like on the photo (largest part of the ring will face up) and then tighten the chain the same way as you would on a round ring. 

Mounting the chainring:
There is a small mark (triangle) on the inner circumference of the ring. This mark must sit behind the crank arm.


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## ubiq (Feb 9, 2011)

tehan said:


> I don't plan 102BCD for now as there is so many other important bcd/mounts to make first.


Is Race Face Cinch interface DM in the works?


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## Pedalhead (Jul 14, 2005)

I'm currently using a Goldtec Onekey on my SS and interested in having a go with one of these. Is it compatible with an 8sp chain (KMC 610) for singlespeed use?


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

This is interesting enough to me that I'm gonna hit the parts bin and build up a cheap SS to play with.


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## njSS (Jun 5, 2013)

Placed an order for one last night for my Crave SS. I figure why not give it a shot? I've got SS buddies that want to see one in person before committing so I'll give it a go. I have quite a few segments on strava and have a ton of Garmin data that I ride regularly so it'll be relatively easy to see what (if any) measurable advantages there are over a period of time. Can't wait to try it out! Hopefully mine will be included in the upcoming shipment.


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## De Villiers Van Zyl (Oct 22, 2014)

I use to run with rotor qrings however they didn't make an 1x option nw 104bcd rings. The oval rings works great, better faster spinning action specially when climbing. The rear wheel does not spin out nearly as much on the loose. I will be putting in my order.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

@njSS -- Thanks. Looking forward to hearing your input.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Any plans for something like a 38t, 120bcd for my CX bike?


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

KevinGT said:


> Didn't we try this in 1988 with Biopace?


Yep, and they work! Maybe not ideal for all situations, but I love them on my old Jamis Dakota.


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

Saul Lumikko said:


> And I do ride a fixed 29er on trails. I'll be glad to take some steps back and explain what I was trying to get across:
> 
> - Earlier I said (parroting Sheldon Brown) that the orientation that makes dead spots easier would cause legs to change their up-down direction quickly and this "whiplash" could hurt knees. This was one of the points I used to support Biopace.
> - I came to think of it and in the end the quick up-down motion of the legs at the dead spot is no different compared to a smaller round ring. The smaller round ring is of course light through the whole circle.
> ...


I've read Sheldon's article on Biopace rings. I took it to mean that the 'whiplash' effect and potential knee damage was related not to modern incarnations of the oval/elliptical rings, but to the old rings from the early 1900s. In fact Sheldon even states that due to their design the Biopace rings were actually easier on the knees than a round ring. Another poster argued that elliptical rings feel "choppy", and in part I agree...I don't think they feel as smooth as a round ring, but having ridden them for years I will say that I recognize the performance advantage. They feel more powerful, IMO. Photo credit to Sheldons website. Pretty easy to see how that could damage body parts.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I just installed the new Q-Rotor on my GXP XX1 Bronson and I really like it.

However for the money, I would have prefered this option.


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## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

Just ordered a GXP direct mount orval ring. Curious if I can really run it on a SS w/o a tensioner!


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Got my ring yesterday and installed it on my SRM with no problem.

The ring is pretty nice, we will see how it holds up compared to the q-rings I have on all my other bikes.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

"choppy" feeling and knee problems are with Biopace and the like. There is enough biomachanical studies done on this topic to prove that fact. The way Biopace was designed forced to engage your legs where almost any muscle is involved in pedaling thus you strain your tendons.

My chainring and Rotor is entirely different to Biopace. There is no sense to compare it even. Feeling is just completely different. With my or Rotor rings your pedal stroke is actually smoother than with a round ring. But you can't understand that until you try it. (It's like trying to describe someone how it feels like accelerating in Bugatti car when you only drove in your life a family car

and for those who don't know what Bugatti is 
Bugatti Super Sport Speed Test - Top Gear - BBC - YouTube


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## Blackhawks01 (Oct 8, 2013)

What I don't understand is that ROTOR had shown their oval rings at Interbike 6 weeks ago? Yet, you check their site, and the only 104bcd single ring they have does not appear to be Narrow/Wide, and it says "Not recommended for SS"? Someone else commented on the Absolute rings saying they worked well, and looked great, but wore out quickly? Maybe user error & poor chain adjustment? Anybody chime in with some facts or updates?


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

Rotor didn't show any 104 narrow wide at interbike. And from the end of interbike their ring was 3-4 months out at least. All they did at interbike with regards to a 104 narrow wide is confirm that it's coming 

I'm getting the absolute black as soon as the 34 is ready


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## Pedalhead (Jul 14, 2005)

Tehan...I'm about to pre-order a ring, but could you please clarify whether they are compatible with 8-speed chains for singlespeed use? Thanks.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Not sure what you are referring to. Rotor never made 104BCD qrings except one which is sold for singlespeed specific, but this one is also not narrow wide. So you are looking wrong at the website I guess.
This year they did not show any narrow/wide 104bcd ring as well.

I am sure you are not referring to wear rate on mine as we have reputation of one of longest lasting rings out there. On average you can get almost 1.5-2 seasons out of it where original Sram XX1 ring will last at most 6 months and in many cases only 3-4 if you ride a lot.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Pedalhead said:


> Tehan...I'm about to pre-order a ring, but could you please clarify whether they are compatible with 8-speed chains for singlespeed use? Thanks.


They are compatible with almost any chain except half link.

My personal experience and my testers is that good 9speed chain in singlespeed holds better than regular 8spd one.
Reson for that is every year manufacturers use better material with narrower chains, so good 9spd chain will outperform average 8spd one. And it is very hard to buy a very good 8spd chain these days.

But anyway 7,8,9,10 and 11 spd chain is fine.


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## Pedalhead (Jul 14, 2005)

Thanks. I used to break a lot of 9 speed chains. Haven't had a single problem since going with KMC 610 for the past three years.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

tehan said:


> They are compatible with almost any chain except half link.
> 
> My personal experience and my testers is that good 9speed chain in singlespeed holds better than regular 8spd one.
> Reson for that is every year manufacturers use better material with narrower chains, so good 9spd chain will outperform average 8spd one. And it is very hard to buy a very good 8spd chain these days.
> ...


You would expect a 9 speed chain to have better retention because the roller width is narrower than for 8 speed chains. 
9,10,11 speed = 11/128" inner width
6,7,8 speed = 3/32" inner width


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

yes that is correct. In fact only 10 and 11 spd chain is optimized to run modern narrow/wide ring with good retention.
But since it is singlespeed forum I did not go that far. For majority of singlespeeders narrow/wide means stronger chainring = longer wearing. People with very light carbon frames will appreciate narrow/wide even more as it will stop that poping sound you get from frame flex/chain migration. But that is another topic on its own.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Bolted up the new ring to my SRM yesterday and calibrated the unit.

I got my 1st ride on new ring last night, it was just a gravel road tempo training ride. I was able to average 19mph and with 245w avg for 2hrs which is little bit higher than. 10 watts higher than last week for what ever that's worth.

Biggest difference was the lack knee shear climbing. No pain.

Activity | TrainingPeaks

Mountain Bike Ride Profile | MTB Hammer. near Plymouth | Times and Records | Strava


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## OxRocks (Sep 17, 2007)

Very interesting stuff... I can imagine that an oval ring gives an advantage in situations where is being pedaled with a steady pace/cadence. However, singlespeeding is also a dynamic type of riding with (short) powerbursts and accelerations involved (e.g. to conquer small climbs). What are the effects of an oval chainring on powerbursts and fast accelerations? Will it turn disadvantageous and take the smoothness out resulting in extra stress on muscles and knees? Any thoughts?


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

My experience with oval rings is that it improves your ability to accelerate and climb in short powerbursts. I find that I can put the power down better. Also evidenced (and complained about) by my riding buddies. It's noticeable. I know it all sounds too good to be true...faster smoother spinning, better low cadence hammering, less stress on the knees...you just have to try it and see for yourself.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

@Irish -- That's a sweet road to have at your training disposal. You're putting down some watts, and miles. Well done. I expect your racing results reflected this.

And thanks for testing the ring out. You were riding the Crux, correct?


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Collins said:


> @Irish -- That's a sweet road to have at your training disposal. You're putting down some watts, and miles. Well done. I expect your racing results reflected this.
> 
> And thanks for testing the ring out. You were riding the Crux, correct?


Thanks, no this was on my S-Works Epic. My Crux has Q-Rings,


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Are either set up SS?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

OxRocks said:


> Very interesting stuff... I can imagine that an oval ring gives an advantage in situations where is being pedaled with a steady pace/cadence. However, singlespeeding is also a dynamic type of riding with (short) powerbursts and accelerations involved (e.g. to conquer small climbs). What are the effects of an oval chainring on powerbursts and fast accelerations? Will it turn disadvantageous and take the smoothness out resulting in extra stress on muscles and knees? Any thoughts?


People just over thinking it. It's best for steady and dynamic riding. Oval shape does not change with a speed
Mtb is a dynamic sport overall and it works great. You have same advantages on every kind of terrain, but most visible the difference is in steep climbing and muddy conditions. Then you can really feel the difference if you haven't seen already in steady ride.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

i wish mine would show up, ordered it 3.5 weeks ago


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

My oval 32 ordered 10/17 showed up in the mail today. I'm in the Midwest, USA. Looking forward to testing it out before winter hits.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

obs08 said:


> i wish mine would show up, ordered it 3.5 weeks ago


Most of you should got it by now. If you live more remotely it will take 2-3 days more. 
My experience is that all parcels fly to NY first and then go or by land or another domestic flight somewhere in US. So the closer you live to NY the quicker you get it. In theory at least...
All parcels sent from Europe go to NY sort facility first.


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## OxRocks (Sep 17, 2007)

What about gear ratios? Is e.g. 34:20 oval the same as 34:20 round? Can I copy the gear ratio from round to oval or is it wise to add or deduct 1 tooth on the rear cog when changing to oval? Like to see some experiences/advice on this.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

tehan said:


> Most of you should got it by now. If you live more remotely it will take 2-3 days more.
> My experience is that all parcels fly to NY first and then go or by land or another domestic flight somewhere in US. So the closer you live to NY the quicker you get it. In theory at least...
> All parcels sent from Europe go to NY sort facility first.


I live about 45 min from nyc


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

OxRocks said:


> What about gear ratios? Is e.g. 34:20 oval the same as 34:20 round? Can I copy the gear ratio from round to oval or is it wise to add or deduct 1 tooth on the rear cog when changing to oval? Like to see some experiences/advice on this.


I personally would treat 32T oval as 31T round. Chainring feels actually easier than nominal teeth count. So 34T would be 33T. This is best estimate I can give you.
In general you will feel a bit easier on 32T oval than 32T round. So if you feel that for eg 32/18 in current setup is a bit to hard for you, then with oval will be easier. If you feel that 32/18 is to easy then it will be even easier - so you should go to 34T oval.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

send me an email and I will look what is going on.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

I thought I would start a new thread to discuss the design options for non-round rings and didn't want to steal anything from the OP of this thread. There seems to be a lot of interest on the SS forum, but I felt it more appropriate to post in the Drivetrain forum:

Oval vs asymmetric rings- Mtbr.com


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

tehan said:


> send me an email and I will look what is going on.


I finally got a tracking number, thanks for the offer though. If it doesn't show up this will ill send ya a pm


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

*detailed review AB oval ring 32t*

18miles, 2k of climbing on my AB oval 32t ring today. 
I like it. Here is my review.

Full review with a couple of photos here: Biking At Home Dad - Review - Absolute BLACK Oval 32t chainring 194 bcd, n/w

*Review - Absolute BLACK Oval 32t chainring 194 bcd, n/w
*Late last night I mounted the new 104 bcd chainring onto the Middleburn crank on my Salsa Selma Ti single speed. I followed the highly complex instructions on the AB website to properly setup and tension the chain in about 2 minutes.

*Directions to install Absolute Black oval chainring on a singlespeed:
*
There is a small mark (triangle shaped) on the inner circumference of the chainring.This mark Must sit behind the crank arm.Position the crank between 3 & 4 o'clock (largest part of the chainring will face up) and then tighten the chain the same way as you would on a round ring.

The bolt holes are threaded so all that is needed is the bolt - no messing with the rear bolt nut with awkward slots. Just tighten each bolt evenly and go. Super easy, though my knee found out today that chain tension needs to be more precise than with a standard round ring setup.

*Western Massachusetts techi goodness: 18miles of Batchelor Street / Earls Trails*

I usually run a 32x22 for the trails we rode today. I went with the 32T oval with a 21t cog out back. It was a good pick, though with the major leaf litter limiting speed/momentum and awesome traction from the oval ring (keep reading!) I would have been fine with a 22t cog out back.

We rode 18miles, 2k climbing, hitting both neighboring networks of Batchelor Street and Earls Trails. Trail conditions and descriptions are relevant of course, but It's fair to say Batchelor Street in the Holyoke Range includes some of the most technical XC trails in New England: they are fast and twisty and require constant big efforts over punchy rocky climbs. Today's ride was ideal for testing the range of the new oval ring. We did slow technical trails and then the faster longer steady climbs and descents of Earls.

*The oval ring feel and diatribe
*
I expected it to take a while to get used to the feel. Not so. Out of the parking lot I sensed a strange increased propulsion feel, yet there was no disruption to spin. It was easy to spin circles and my brain didn't hesitate all day keeping things moving. Only once there was the slightest sense that the oval ring disrupted my efficiency. All day the ring inspired confidence.

The oval ring doesn't make pedaling easier. it makes the pedal stroke smoother. You spin through the deadspot faster so that when you get to part of the ring where power is put down, there is already more momentum so more mmmph is applied. This may or may not officially be 'more power'. I have no idea and don't care. (I don't have a physics degree, sorry) It felt smooth, consistent, and my muscles appreciated it.

As is true with most tech, I believe stronger riders will benefit the most from oval rings. Momentum is hugely important in technical single speeding. The oval ring and quickness into the power zone means that a slightly different effort is required to power into and out of short steep climbs where momentum is key. In these situations I would enter the incline with less speed, yet could pedal sooner coming out of the challenging spot I was looking to roll or hump through. Effectively this meant a more steady speed through rough sections (instead of more drastic 'hammer then coast').

Core strength and balance skills were called upon more yet overall muscle fatigue was reduced because efforts were consistent. For this reason I believe the oval ring will be fantastic for endurance racing where a harder gear can be pushed with less muscle fatigue as miles add up (or so I hypothesize).

*What I liked about oval.
*
Muscle exertion seemed to remain more constant than the round ring where strong standing efforts require a lot more power than when sitting and spinning flat. Even now at the end of the day my leg muscles feel more evenly fatigued, instead of stronger intensity in large muscle group of the thighs.

Less recruiting of back muscles. This could be due more to chiropractic work two days ago, but I was not recruiting lower back muscles when standing and hammering. My upper body was very much involved, yet the back stayed out of it as more groups of leg muscles seemed to be firing to provide the required effort.

Traction was very noticeably improved. There were many slow grinding leafy technical inclines on our ride. I could retain traction with this ring noticeably better. This is difficult to explain, but it just worked. More traction for reals.

*What I didn't like.
*
The chain fell off twice. This was very likely user error. The 9 spd chain was fairly worn and my tension at the beginning of the ride was a bit too loose. After the second drop with badly bonked knee, I tightened the chain and it stayed on just fine. It makes sense that there is less wiggle room for chain tension with the oval rings. This setup will require more attention to chain wear and dialing in tension every few rides.

It didn't make me faster! This winter I was planning on eating more cake while drinking more stout to get faster for next race season. Unfortunately (fortunately) this isn't a magic bullet.

*The take away. 
*
I love single speeding because it's bliss to connect with the bike and simply be in the right gear more often than seems possible. After this first ride I'm convinced that the oval ring will contribute to this bliss. I'd even venture to say it will rock the 1x9,10,11 world. Try one and you might not go back. I look forward to getting my paws on a 34t ring to see if there is any difference. Also I look forward to experimenting with different gear ratios to see how the experience changes.

Thanks for reading. I am not sponsored by Absolute Black in any way.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

adinpapa said:


> I am not sponsored by Absolute Black in any way.


You should be...


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

Adinpapa - I've been running oval rings for about 5 years now, mostly rotor q rings. I find the biggest problem is you like them so much, so you have to convert all your bikes over, as round rings just feel lumpy after riding ovals.

One thing that Rotor say is that you need to go through an adaption phase of about 6 weeks to get your legs used to it, since you use muscles that don't get used as much with round rings. I didn't believe this, pushed hard on a few rides, then DOMS set in and a could barely walk for a few days my legs were so sore!

The increased traction is due to the smoothing out of the power curve, so you don't get the spike in power to the rear wheel, causing it to spin out and lose grip.

I find on my singlespeed though, that on some steep inclines, with really low grinding revs, that my legs sometimes stall due to the increase gear on the down stroke. I think there is probably and optimal RPM with oval rings, and above or below this, things get a bit interesting.


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Xcbarny I believe it takes 6 weeks for full muscle adjustment to the oval ring. My legs are aching today similarly to when I start jogging after 10months of only riding.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

great review adinpapa, now im even more anxious


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

adinpapa said:


> Traction was very noticeably improved. There were many slow grinding leafy technical inclines on our ride. I could retain traction with this ring noticeably better. This is difficult to explain, but it just worked. More traction for reals.


I hazard a guess it's because the effective gear ratio is harder at the point when you are putting the most power to the cranks. Dare I say "everyone" knows you are less likely to slip the rear tire in a harder gear. It makes perfect sense.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Really appreciate your review adinpapa. It surely took some time to write it down.

regards dropped chain. All - you really need to use brand new chain to start with when buying new ring. There is million reasons for it but the most important ones are longer life of the ring and no dropped chain.

To set properly chaintension on SS you need to position crank with biggest portion of oval facing vertically up (that means crank on about 3-4 o'clock). You can see the shape of the ring so just position it the way to have longest axis of oval vertically. Then tighten the chain the way you would normally do. Just don't leave almost any slack. This is because it will get a tiny bit looser on the other axis of the oval. Difference is really minor but if you use a lot of slack when tensioning like I wrote above then you will get chain even looser in some spots. 

Also don't forget to retention it after first 2-3 rides when mounting new chain as it will stretch itself a bit.


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## ChicagoTim (Sep 17, 2014)

Saul Lumikko said:


> I hazard a guess it's because the effective gear ratio is harder at the point when you are putting the most power to the cranks. Dare I say "everyone" knows you are less likely to slip the rear tire in a harder gear. It makes perfect sense.


I think there's more to it than that. I think it's because your feet move more quickly from the end of one power stroke to the beginning of the next, which helps retain momentum, smoothing power delivery and improving traction.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Tracking finally showed my chainring out for delivery, and I got all excited thinking I'd get to try it out on tomorrow's ride. But, the postal service is holding it hostage until I come pick it up in person. :sad:


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

smilinsteve said:


> For that price it might be round, but not narrow wide.


Got just what I was looking for at a swap meet over the weekend. $20 for new brand name that I recognized, but I don't remember.


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## extremecarver (Sep 28, 2009)

There should really be 28T oval rings with ~46mm chainline... This is not for singlespeed - but here the topic of the oval rings seems to be most disucussed.

I would prefer direct mount GXP - but 64BCD would be fine too. 

Why 46mm? Well I go through my XX1 cassette 42T alu shitring far too quick (2 XX1 cassettes a year - and only because of that shitty 42T alu instead of steel). It hold's up maybe 2000km riding with 28T front ring (front ring holds up twice as long as 42ring on the back...). a) because I spend 50% of my time on the 42T. b) because the chainline favors the fast gears (this is a 29er with 2.5 grippy tyres front/back and 140/160mm suspension) - hence due to tyres not the fastest bike uphill, but loads of traction on the downs.... 
So either I go back to 2x, or I need some proper chainline oval 26 or 28T ring (which will help me to spare using that 42T cassette ring all the time on the uphills).
Mind - I either go up steep, or go down steep. Esseentially I could do with a 1x7 gear system if I have 9-11-13-20-30-36-42 cassette and 26 front ring.. Never need all those inbetween gears... Same time I don't want to run anything bigger than 30T up front due to clearance...


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Did the direct mount rings ship along with the 104bcd rings?


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

I really should have read closer, and noticed the part about how the AB rings have the built in 2mm spacer for mounting. As is, I can't use the oval ring without buying a wider bottom bracket as I run my current chain ring outside the spider for chainstay clearance. Oh well, my mistake, it happens. 

Just figured I'd post to give others a heads up that might also have their rings mounted outside the spider.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

Apparently the 104 rings did ship, mine apparently left 10 days ago but no delivery yet. I'm east coast too


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

too bad they dont sell Oval chainrings here in Philippines


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

My 104 bcd arrived here in Australia yesterday after shipping on the 17th. Fitted it on the gnarvester last night with no problems. I am running it with 2 Absolute Black N-W cogs as a sort of dinglespeed set up (32x20 & 32x18) while I work out what gear will work best for me. Plenty of room in the sliders to accommodate this and brief testing on the workstand looks like the chainline is ok in both and it does not seem like I will drop the chain. Hopefully can have a proper ride tomorrow.


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

Incedently it's slightly off topic but it is single speed and oval related.

I noticed this Kickstarter campaign for an impossible wheel (unicycle with no seat) that is using an oval shaped wheel to get the same effect as an oval chain ring on a bike.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/687658339/lunicycle-the-unicycle-for-everyone


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## EastPhilly (Jan 11, 2014)

rusty_ss said:


> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/687658339/lunicycle-the-unicycle-for-everyone


Thats creepy... Freaks me out almost as much as lefty forks...


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## jaytvt (May 8, 2008)

Ordered 27 days ago and still no ring. Starting to have HBC flashbacks.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Forcemajeure said:


> too bad they dont sell Oval chainrings here in Philippines


We do send everywhere on the planet. Just order on our site.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jaytvt said:


> Ordered 27 days ago and still no ring. Starting to have HBC flashbacks.


Please don't mention that company here. We are fulfilling all the orders constantly and the is no worry about not getting a part. We are too big of a business right now. From January it will be easier for you guys as BTI comes on board to help us in US market.

All old orders for 104bcd shipped already 2 weeks ago. Current orders placed up to 7 days back from today ship Monday.

Sram oval rings (and this is your order I assume) will ship after 5th November and it was and IS very clearly communicated. I never said that sram ovals will be delivered within few days. We do what we can to meet demand and we are catching up while increasing production at the same time. 
So basically we have 5-7 days delivery time right now. Sram rings were not shipped to anyone yet.

So don't worry as everything is under control

If you did not get your 104bcd ring yet and you placed an order more than 7 days ago then contact me and I will sort your problem out like I always do.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

extremecarver said:


> There should really be 28T oval rings with ~46mm chainline... This is not for singlespeed - but here the topic of the oval rings seems to be most disucussed.
> 
> I would prefer direct mount GXP - but 64BCD would be fine too.
> 
> ...


Hey, unfortunately this is not possible to do. In 64bcd 28T oval would be a problem for many frames. In spiderless,, 46mm chainline is very tricky to achieve and would cost 3x more than normal due to thick material you need to have to make it.

With all honesty. If you have 28T up front and you really use 42T 50% of the time then it means you should have 2x drive with 22T granny. Mounting smaller single ring than 26/28T up front makes the bike a bit unusable if you don't ride a 15% up the hill.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

there are pictures everywhere on the website showing that. But good news for you! 34T oval is flat like normal ring so you will be able to use it!. 
Sell the one to your friend and grab 34T in few days once we announce if for sales.


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## jaytvt (May 8, 2008)

If you did not get your 104bcd ring yet and you placed an order more than 7 days ago then contact me and I will sort your problem out like I always do.[/QUOTE]

It was a 104bcd ordered on October 3rd. I'll shoot you a note.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jaytvt said:


> It was a 104bcd ordered on October 3rd. I'll shoot you a note.


you should have it today. 
If anyone else think that their parcel is slow in delivery let me know on email so we can look at it.


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

tehan said:


> there are pictures everywhere on the website showing that. But good news for you! 34T oval is flat like normal ring so you will be able to use it!.
> Sell the one to your friend and grab 34T in few days once we announce if for sales.


I'm counting the days. Looking forward to trying the 34t oval on the SS Pugs.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Just ordered mine, can't wait to get it on the winter SS project?

Gdzie jest fabryka?


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

Fitted the 32t to the Sortie and it snowed this morning. What timing :-\


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

pgm83 said:


> Fitted the 32t to the Sortie and it snowed this morning. What timing :-\


Bikes still work in snow...


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

My driveway is about the only thing open around here within 24 hours of precipitation or with snow on the ground.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

pgm83 said:


> My driveway is about the only thing open around here within 24 hours of precipitation or with snow on the ground.


I would love to ride in fresh snow. But in UK we rarely see it and if we get it, it only last a day or two and start to melt. Then it's not much fun anymore in muddy, cold slush..


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

big_slacker said:


> Just ordered mine, can't wait to get it on the winter SS project?
> 
> Gdzie jest fabryka?


w Polsce.


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

mine finally came in! cant wait to give it a go


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

tehan said:


> w Polsce.


Wifey will be happy to have part of my bike made in PL.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I want to keep up on this one.


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

tehan said:


> there are pictures everywhere on the website showing that. But good news for you! 34T oval is flat like normal ring so you will be able to use it!.
> Sell the one to your friend and grab 34T in few days once we announce if for sales.


What chain would you recommend for the oval tooth ring running single speed with a Chris King rear cog?


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## jaytvt (May 8, 2008)

Woohoo, ring arrived yesterday. Looking forward to trying it out.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

34T rings now available! But in limited qty for now, so don't think too long...

34T is cheaper than 32T as it is flat with no integrated nuts into chainring. So it can be used on inside or outside position on 3X crank (inside is recommended).
OVAL 104BCD chainring


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## OxRocks (Sep 17, 2007)

Just ordered the 34T...! Hoping to give it a spin soon😃
Will be installing the ring with a new 3/32 chain (KMC610).


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Question for you Tehan....I apologize if this has already been asked but...I race xc and do about half of my training on a road bike. Would it be a bad idea to do about half my training with a round ring and race with an oval ring?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just ordered 32 and 34 in 104bcd.
Will be interesting to see how long they take to get to the other side of the planet.

If I gell with them, a 38t 104 will be on its way for the SS CXer if AB get around to making one.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Tehan... what do you mean with "no integrated nuts into chainring"?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> Question for you Tehan....I apologize if this has already been asked but...I race xc and do about half of my training on a road bike. Would it be a bad idea to do about half my training with a round ring and race with an oval ring?


Actually many pros are training on the round and then race on oval. This gives them noticeable feel and psychological advantage. 
Riding oval all the time brings more benefits, but if you do 50% road on round ring and then XC on oval it is not a problem at all.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

otsenresiul said:


> Tehan... what do you mean with "no integrated nuts into chainring"?


It means that 34T has regular holes like normal chainring (look on the photos) 10mm dia. 32T has integrated spacer and threads - so it offsets from the crank tabs by 2mm. In 32T we had to do it to clear 30T diameter of the oval with tabs.

With 34T it was not necessary. Hence we could make it cheaper.

So to mount the 32T you need only bolts and to mount 34T you need bolts + nuts (like in standard setup)


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Didn't know that nuts were integrated. .. thank you!!
Im still waiting for my 32T :/


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

I didn't realize either. What a waste of money to buy the chain ring bolts. Oops!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

pgm83 said:


> I didn't realize either. What a waste of money to buy the chain ring bolts. Oops!


You still need chainring bolts...


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

Obviously. The ones from the double rings would have worked fine though and there would not have been any weight difference since all I needed was the male end.


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## jonnieoh (Nov 4, 2014)

Love these rings, and would love to get one for my singlespeed hardtail! 

Went to go purchase one, after getting through 13 pages of this thread, and realized that all your oval rings are 4-hole for 4-bolt cranksets that are a bit more modern than my older square taper Race Face crankset, which uses a 5-bolt chainring. Do you have any oval rings for us old-school 5-bolt guys? 

Please let me know, and thanks for making such a gorgeous product.


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## danorano (Nov 14, 2012)

tehan said:


> This is what we keep hearing from our singlespeed friends and customers. Oval rings make you going quicker and easier especially on singlespeed where you have low rpm's while riding uphills out of the saddle.


Isn't this the same thing as Biopace which was popular in the late 80's early 90's? We were told that they were the wave of the future because they were designed on a computer. They quickly fizzled out because no one liked the way it feels to pedal an oval chain-ring.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

danorano said:


> Isn't this the same thing as Biopace which was popular in the late 80's early 90's? We were told that they were the wave of the future because they were designed on a computer. They quickly fizzled out because no one liked the way it feels to pedal an oval chain-ring.


Holy **** dude. This has been discussed at length here.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

danorano said:


> Isn't this the same thing as Biopace which was popular in the late 80's early 90's? We were told that they were the wave of the future because they were designed on a computer. They quickly fizzled out because no one liked the way it feels to pedal an oval chain-ring.


Yes, but they were designed on a Radio Shack TRS80....so we now know it was all wrong.

They were indeed oval rings but phased 90 degrees wrong making them worse than round rings with the major axis in the dead spot and the minor axis in the power zone. Unfortunately, they've now tainted the idea of non round rings to the uneducated masses (who still remember).


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

irishpitbull said:


> Holy **** dude. This has been discussed at length here.


It may have been discussed at length, but I seriously doubt that anything conclusive was reached..........and that's not because I carefully read every post and page in this thread, because even I don't have that much free time on my hands.

It's just that talk is cheap, but evidence-based, conclusive studies on this do not exist. Were any posted up here? _Independent_ ones?

Crap studies funded/fronted by the manufacturers of products does not count in this regard.

So, yeah....this is just as likely to be a 'biopace-2" as not. It's also something to watch out for in the knee department. There might be 'further developments' coming along soon.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

Old Ray said:


> It may have been discussed at length, but I seriously doubt that anything conclusive was reached..........and that's not because I carefully read every post and page in this thread, because even I don't have that much free time on my hands.
> 
> It's just that talk is cheap, but evidence-based, conclusive studies on this do not exist. Were any posted up here? _Independent_ ones?
> 
> ...


Do you also wear tin foil hats?

There are many studies posted in this thread or one of the 5 others created about oval rings.

Non Circular Chainring


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

Old Ray said:


> It's just that talk is cheap, but evidence-based, conclusive studies on this do not exist. Were any posted up here? _Independent_ ones?
> 
> Crap studies funded/fronted by the manufacturers of products does not count in this regard.
> 
> So, yeah....this is just as likely to be a 'biopace-2" as not. It's also something to watch out for in the knee department. There might be 'further developments' coming along soon.


This is a classic uneducated post. There does exist an independent study that was quite conclusive.

Non Circular Chainring

Others of us have been using these non-round rings for some time and have found them very beneficial.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Old Ray said:


> It may have been discussed at length, but I seriously doubt that anything conclusive was reached..........and that's not because I carefully read every post and page in this thread, because even I don't have that much free time on my hands.
> 
> It's just that talk is cheap, but evidence-based, conclusive studies on this do not exist. Were any posted up here? _Independent_ ones?
> 
> ...


 Biopace is coming like a boomerang.

You don't have much time in your hands but you found time to write something about it with no clue how it works or how Biopace did

This is not Biopace and this was already covered here. By now we have few thousand customers using this ring and they love it!. Soon you will find many reviews from tests in bike mags. 
There is tons of knowledge on the internet about that. You just need to pay for it and you are ready to read.

It does not damage knees.... this was Biopace and it is already proven why exactly it was bad and why our rings are completely different.

Guys if you really need to bring Biopace again, just spend a bit of time reading previous pages in that topic and you will find many answers to your doubts. If you have never tried Oval ring (any in that matter) you have no clue at all how it works... you just think you have.

Repeating some old stories about Biopace does not make sense. It's like complaining about cars... because old ones were crappy it does not mean that modern cars are bad as well just because they have 4 wheels.


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## danorano (Nov 14, 2012)

If it's as great as you say then I certainly look forward to seeing it show up in my LBS on some, or all of the manufacturers single speeds in the near future...


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## danorano (Nov 14, 2012)

Is the objective using the oval ring to make more power or speed? The only way the oval ring will give you more speed is if over the same time period, you make more revolutions than with a round ring. I suppose if it gave you more power with the same work, then you would save energy so it would be beneficial during racing, uphill, etc.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

tehan said:


> Biopace is coming like a boomerang.
> 
> You don't have much time in your hands but you found time to write something about it with no clue how it works or how Biopace did
> 
> ...


OK, then. I hope you sell lots of them.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

irishpitbull said:


> Do you also wear tin foil hats?
> 
> There are many studies posted in this thread or one of the 5 others created about oval rings.
> 
> Non Circular Chainring


Well I guess that's what I get for not reading 14 pages worth of posts, eh?

That's the thing about emptybeer. there's nothing to stop anybody from posting in a thread.

And just look at the results. I'm looking forward to seeing the long-term results.

Then again, I'll probably forget all about this product in the near future, since the round rings I have been using work just fine for me, and I really don't feel a need to 'improve' on them.

But that's what makes America great, isn't it? You can use Oval rings, or even Biopace rings, if you want, and I can just keep on using round ones.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

danorano said:


> If it's as great as you say then I certainly look forward to seeing it show up in my LBS on some, or all of the manufacturers single speeds in the near future...


We just actually signed contract with BTI so from January you will actually see my products in many shops across US. 
and in 2016 probably on some bikes


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Old Ray said:


> But that's what makes America great, isn't it? You can use Oval rings, or even Biopace rings, if you want, and I can just keep on using round ones.


America?
Using Biopace can got you on the no-fly list.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Old Ray said:


> But that's what makes America great, isn't it? You can use Oval rings, or even Biopace rings, if you want, and I can just keep on using round ones.


That has to be the lowest standard for greatness I've ever come across.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

NordieBoy said:


> America?
> Using Biopace can got you on the no-fly list.


With good reason! I heard that Biopace rings are quite popular with cyclists for ISIS.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Old Ray said:


> It's just that talk is cheap, but evidence-based, conclusive studies on this do not exist. Were any posted up here? _Independent_ ones?
> 
> Crap studies funded/fronted by the manufacturers of products does not count in this regard.


How's that for irony? The one guy reading the thread complained that AB had provided any test results when the independent results were posted (in this thread, but you have to, you know, read the thread to have figured that out). Then TFNG comes in and complains that the independent tests he wants aren't in the thread (that he didn't read) and therefore only manufacturer provided test results are available (which they aren't, but TFNG didn't bother reading first&#8230

RTFM!


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

danorano said:


> Is the objective using the oval ring to make more power or speed? The only way the oval ring will give you more speed is if over the same time period, you make more revolutions than with a round ring. I suppose if it gave you more power with the same work, then you would save energy so it would be beneficial during racing, uphill, etc.


Dude, if you had simply read the thread you could have saved yourself the effort of typing this post and simply quote one of the other 3 posts from "experts" in the field of physics!


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## danorano (Nov 14, 2012)

Okay, please create a sticky at the beginning of this thread that has large bold letters and says "READ THIS FIRST!!!" which contains all the stats, benefits, test results, etc. That will save innocent bystanders like myself from having to mull over 14 pages of banter to arrive at a conclusion as to WTF this ring does or does not do... Thanks.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

*One ride review*

*ONE RIDE REVIEW*

*Background:*

It's not Biopace.

If you pedal squares more than circles like I do, the shape helps you take advantage of the stronger part of your pedal stroke and makes it slightly easier to get your foot through the weaker part of your pedal stroke. It's like having a slightly larger gear for when you have the most mechanical advantage/leverage and a slightly smaller gear when you have the least mechanical advantage/leverage.

After a few minutes, it _feels_ as natural as (or possibly more then) a round ring.

I have no idea why this would be any better for SS than than a similar shaped ring without narrow wide teeth. I'll keep my Rotor 34t q ring on my single speed. The chain has never come off because the tension is correct.

This AB ring seems like a good choice for somebody running a 1x front with a clutched rear derailleur and doesn't want to fool around with a chain guard.

*Setup:*
1x10 on a 30+lb trail bike. 130mm up front, 125mm in back. 32t Absolute Black chainring up front, new Shimano chain re-sized according to AB's directions. Shimano XT Shadow Plus rear derailleur. No chain retention device.









Yes, the picture is of the wrong side. I swear the AB Oval ring is on there and it has never seen a chain guard.

*The Ride*

Uneventful. It was as muddy as I have ever seen the trails when they were open, so average speed was down a bit. I don't think I ever got both wheels off the ground, but it was smacking rocks and roots pretty hard. That's the joy of 29" wheels and 5" on each end. You just smack stuff you would completely avoid on most other bikes sold in the Midwest.

Two hours of taking poor lines and pounding rocks and the chain stayed in place. It pedals nearly identical to the Rotor q ring I have been using for the last year, but it's a 32t instead of a 34t. Those were the only requirements that I was looking for, so I give it a big thumbs up. Goodbye MRP chain guide!

*Side Notes:*

The black matches the Race Face Turbine cranks perfectly. It fits well and looks like it was intended for that crank spider. No goofy logos to be embarrassed of.

The 32t has threaded holes for the crank bolts. Only the male end of a crank bolt fits in there and it doesn't matter what size (length) you use. I should have paid more attention as I have never seen that before. I bought the aluminum bolts to replace my long ones from the double and save weight, but now have no use for them. They are needed if you buy the 34t though.

I like the very minimal packaging. Much better for the environment, but it arrived without a scratch.


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

Have two 34's on the way to me, eagerly awaiting them! Can't wait


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## mango12 (Sep 5, 2009)

Just completed my 1st ride with my new Absolute Black chainring. It was a lunch time ride so I did not have long to ride. Did 5.5 miles with 472 feet of elevation. Per Strava; Out of 10 segments I had 7 PRs and 3, 2nd best times. I did get after it a little bit, but didn't kill myself by no means.
When I 1st started riding the bike I could not feel any difference from my round ring. But when I hit the rollers, I was able to maintain my cadence much better. That is the big difference for me. I also did not spin out nearly as much. I tried to always keep pressure on the pedals and not coast.

I am very pleased with the result so far. I have 1 other challenge that will be a true taste test for the ring. not sure if 32/19 is what I will stick with, just gonna have to experiment awhile.
Riding 29erset up rigid, with 32/19 . 2.4 Chunky Monkeys front and rear. I weigh 220lbs, 52 yrs old


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

*1/2 link with AB oval ring ?*

Anyone have luck using a 1/2 link with the 32t (or 34t) AB oval ring ?

I tried using a gusset S-link on a KMC 9-speed chain and it didn't like the ovalization... had to slide my Alternators all the way back


----------



## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

A half link won't work with ANY narrow-wide chain ring.


----------



## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

I don't think half links will work on narrow-wide rings.


----------



## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

adinpapa said:


> Anyone have luck using a 1/2 link with the 32t (or 34t) AB oval ring ?
> 
> I tried using a gusset S-link on a KMC 9-speed chain and it didn't like the ovalization... had to slide my Alternators all the way back


I don't see how a 1/2 link can work with any narrow/wide chainring......round or oval.


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Thanks all for the consistent messaging - that's a major bummer. That is definitely a flaw in this ring for SS.


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## michaelscott (May 23, 2011)

adinpapa said:


> Thanks all for the consistent messaging - that's a major bummer. That is definitely a flaw in this ring for SS.


Just use a full link.


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

You my friend are not regarding the concept of 'shortest wheelbase possible'. For some ratios, the 1/2 link is necessary for keeping it tight in the rear.


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## michaelscott (May 23, 2011)

If you can tell the difference between half a link in the back (that's like 1/5th of an inch?) than you are probably much better rider than anyone on this forum, and definitely don't need any sort of oval ring to be anymore awesome. 

You go bro. You go. :thumbsup:


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

adinpapa said:


> Thanks all for the consistent messaging - that's a major bummer. That is definitely a flaw in this ring for SS.


Half link doesn't work with NW rings for obvious reasons. I dont think it's a flaw, it's more like user error.


----------



## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Still waiting on mine.


----------



## Timon (May 11, 2008)

Zerort said:


> Still waiting on mine.


same

oct 21 order


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I'd rather work out a magic gear than have a half-link in my chain. They are inherently a weak link and I will rather not have them in any of my chains - least of all on a SS. Of course with magic gear your options are limited because the NW chainring must be an even number. 

Well, you can't please everybody I quess! 

These Absolute Black rings seem to be very well received in the local fatbiking scene. A few riders are already submitting ride reports and a bunch of others are making a group purchase. I thought I'd be an outcast but now it'll look like I jumped on a bandwagon!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Saul Lumikko said:


> I thought I'd be an outcast but now it'll look like I jumped on a bandwagon!


Only if you get a rear as well...


----------



## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

I have had a 32 tooth AB oval chainring on my 29+ rig for a couple of weeks now so thought I should post some thoughts. I am also running two AB rear cogs in a sort of 1x2 dingle set up while I sort out my ratios (18t and 20t).

Quality - The quality of all the components is great. I really like the machining on the rear cogs and the oval is also really nicely made although there is less room on a 32t 104bcd ring to add the nice machining touches that the cogs have. I really like the attention to detail like the matching black packaging - makes you feel like you have bought a quality product when it arrives.

The ride - I have ridden about 200km since putting the oval on my Gnarvester and I have to say I like riding with the oval ring a lot. It is only noticeably odd for about 10 minutes and then only in certain circumstances - I really only felt the oval when I was spinning out and just at that pint where you struggle to keep pressure on the chain but otherwise I didn't feel it at all. I always felt I had a good pedalling circle (I ride track too and have worked on a smooth pedal stroke a lot) but I do seem to be able to ride with a slightly higher gear on the SS and stay seated for longer with the Oval set up. The place I notice it the most is on long non-technical climbs where I pedal a higher cadence and stay seated for much longer. I had to take a shortcut home today and rode a long cutting climb on the road that I often ride on my road bike. I actually set my Strava PB on my SS 29+ with the oval (slightly embarrassing but I am usually knackered by the time I ride it on the road bike and I was pretty fresh today but I did feel like I was going fast and spinning really well for a climb).

I also really like the NW cogs (despite some comments in the other thread about why you would need a NW SS cog). I like them as I dont have a perfect chainline at the moment while I am running the two cogs on the back but with the NW profile I have had now chain drop issues even with the oval up front and the chin is running surprisingly quietly too considering the setup. 

Knees - I have had knee issues in the past so was very aware of me knees while testing out the oval. This was complicated a bit by the fact I switched from Time pedals to XT the same time as I put the oval on. I have not noticed any knee pain though and I like the way it feels to pedal with the oval so all good for me! I also did not get any of the muscle pain that some have mentioned. I am used to riding very different crank lengths though as I have 175's on my road and MTB, 165's on my track bike and 150's and 125's on my unicycles so I may be less susceptible to this than others. 

I would not go as far as to say that the oval gives me an unfair advantage and overall I am no quicker on the trails I ride a lot but I am no slower either, am having no problems with the setup and I feel that with time there could be some benefit in the oval for me so I will be sticking with it.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't wait to get mine. The 32 is going on the single speed hack and the 34 on the Stumpy hard tail with 1x9 gearing.
The Stumpy is running a 34 NW chain ring and Hope 40t rear ring and with the AB 34 I hope to be able to go back to a stock 11-36 cassette.


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## bycyclist (Oct 13, 2008)

Been riding for about a week now on my oval 32T on my SS and have definitely found it to feel like "easier" effort on same usual trails. As far as objective measurement, my average HR is running about 3-4% lower than prior round 32T on same trails.


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## cplagz (Jan 28, 2014)

Hoping mine turns up soon (posted on 25th Oct)... really want to try it out.

Did anyone running a narrow-wide previously have to resize their chain much?


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

first ride on my oval yesterday. . . 

giant trance 27.5
1x10 32t oval - 11-40t cassette in rear

i generally ride about 2-3 times a week, 20-30 miles. prior to my ride yesterday i had a concussion on oct 31 so it was my first ride back after a 10 day lay off. i took it easy just because i wasnt sure how i would feel. so i did my usual route at my favorite trail, just over 12 miles. lots of trail traffic yesterday as we had a perfect day in new jersey. previously to the oval i had a 30t NW ring. first few pedals were fairly uneventful as i didnt notice any strange sensation or think it felt odd. felt normal right out of the gate. after the first mile i moved my pace from puttin along leaisurely to a nice solid pace. not strava pace but nice solid, smooth pace. things i started to notice was i felt like i could spin the cranks very easily. i never really had a good high rpm spin without feeling like i was bouncing but the spin came easy. second thing i noticed was climing. my trail doesnt have alot of long extended climbs but it does have a lot of short steep bursts. fairly high grade and short where it requires you to really power up it. the climbing came alot easier as well, which i credit to the ease of spinning. i was able to pick a gear and just spin away and power right up. physically i felt pretty good the whole ride, ended up with 1.5hr moving time. i got back to my car and checked my strava for distance and time and to my surprise i managed 7 pr's and 3 top 3's. how much of that is due to the oval i cant really say but considering i had a 10 day lay off and wasnt moving at race pace due to the concussion id have to say it must have helped me quite a bit. i felt a little soreness in my quads in different spots than i usually do towards the end of the ride, not sure if the oval is working different muscles. id have to give the oval a solid thumbs up for now and after a few more rides ill decide if it gets the second thumb as well. so far so good though, if youre on the fence about it id say give it a try, it surely will not hurt


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

cplagz said:


> Hoping mine turns up soon (posted on 25th Oct)... really want to try it out.
> 
> Did anyone running a narrow-wide previously have to resize their chain much?


You won't need to resize your chain unless you change from a chainring with a different number of teeth.


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

You should however, use a new chain. Will prolong the life of the ring


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

obs08 said:


> first ride on my oval yesterday. . .
> 
> giant trance 27.5
> 1x10 32t oval - 11-40t cassette in rear
> ...


That 10 days of rest can be attributed to a large part of why you set so many PRs and top 3's and felt so good physically.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

solo-x said:


> That 10 days of rest can be attributed to a large part of why you set so many PRs and top 3's and felt so good physically.


After 10 days of rest, I usually feel awful on the bike.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

NordieBoy said:


> After 10 days of rest, I usually feel awful on the bike.


Me too, but I always smoke my PRs that way. The reason you feel awful is because your body's natural pain killers have left. Your glucose stores have been fully replenished though, and your muscles are ready to go, even if your not "feeling" it.


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## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

Wow.

Props to the absolute black guys for putting up with all the spam/abuse. 

Ive bought some stuff from them in the past, their quality is top notch. I will gladly buy from them again, when the need arises. 

I just wanted to post, that you should consider making a RaceFace cinch compatible option. RaceFace is killing it in the cranks game, and it would be great to have some compatible options.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

thanks.

RF cinch are already designed in oval shape. We just need to find a bit of time to start making them. I suppose we will have them ready in early January.


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

Any word on when the 34's should be arriving?


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## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

tehan said:


> thanks.
> 
> RF cinch are already designed in oval shape. We just need to find a bit of time to start making them. I suppose we will have them ready in early January.


Looks like i have another reason to buy something from you guys


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Got the rest of the stuff to install my chainring tonight, hope to get to try it out tomorrow on the same loop I did last week on a round ring for a good comparison.


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## kgraham11 (Jan 29, 2005)

Received my 32T today! Going on my old scandium One9 tomorrow and try it out as soon as I can get to a local trail. Packaging is awesome!


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## trekninja (Oct 22, 2007)

solo-x said:


> That 10 days of rest can be attributed to a large part of why you set so many PRs and top 3's and felt so good physically.


im the opposite, when i take time off the gym or the bike i lose any gains quickly. on a side note, a second ride on the oval produced a few more pr's. i feel smoother, not sure how much of my new speed is because of going to a 32t as opposed to my original 30t though. either way, im happy with the purchase and will most likely buy one for my next build as well


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## earworm (Nov 8, 2014)

I got my 32t oval a few days after I ordered, I was surprised I got it so fast. I've put about 45 miles on it so far. I installed a new kmc x8.99 chain along with it. I ride trails in southeast Michigan, so far no problems with the chain coming off or anything. I'm just running a single speed setup. I really cant find any drawbacks to the gear, it seems smoother than an all round and seems for me at least it helps out going up the hills. It feels like there's equal pressure throughout my whole pedaling stroke if that makes any sense. It is about 40 more than say a raceface chainring but I say try one out. I don't see any disadvantages to it. I know my next chainring will be their oval 34t.


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

*it kind of feels like_______________*

So the oval is about $$$ more than I pay for my single speed rings.

I've heard : it feels good, it kind of feels good, it sort of makes pedaling better, it feels smoother, it feels right.

I will stick with my new round chain rings under $20 for now.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Where do you get those for under $20? Seriously


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## outonmybike (Oct 24, 2009)

I've got some essential oils you can rub all over your chainring. Has the same effect on how your pedal stroke feels. Will also kill Ebola.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Well, I did just over 14 miles yesterday on the single speed and the new AB oval chainring and here are my thoughts.

I rode two new trails that I hadn't rode yet at Tsali yesterday on the SS. They have a lot more climbing than I'm used to, and a lot more standing climbing also. I had no issues with it feeling odd from the start, and actually I think it felt smoother to me, maybe I just have a choppy pedal stroke, I dunno. I was also worried about chain tension on the SS, but I had no problems. I made some steeper and longer climbs seated more than usual, maybe I was just having a good day, but it felt a bit easier to me. But the thing that really stood out for me, was standing mashing climbs on loose over hardpack conditons. I always struggle with breaking the rear tire loose, and yesterday the bike was a lot more hooked up at those times. Even on that stuff covered with leaves and pine needles as pictured, I still rarely lit up the rear. So, I'm sold, I'm really happy with mine and will buy another when it wears out.


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## cplagz (Jan 28, 2014)

Put the oval on with a new chain (KMCX10SL) and zee clutch rear der on Santa Cruz SoloC. It pedals much nicer in my opinion, I prefer the constant pressure in the stroke as opposed to the on/off pedal action I use on round chainrings. I can't say if it's any faster or not but it definitely holds the chain on with no guide, whereas my RF NW wouldn't


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## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

gonzo said:


> So the oval is about $$$ more than I pay for my single speed rings.
> 
> I've heard : it feels good, it kind of feels good, it sort of makes pedaling better, it feels smoother, it feels right.
> 
> I will stick with my new round chain rings under $20 for now.


what exactly were you expecting? brand spanking new product, with the price point of the bargain bin equivalent?

You think they started making products to lose money?

Does not compute.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

I didn't get any sticker with my chainring. ..so I bought 4 on saturday.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

Just installed tonight on my Lynskey 1x10 set up.

I'm no spinner I'm more of a Masher, always have been.

Things I noticed:
Definitively a power spot then an easy spot then a power, which to me was almost like Auto Pedal.

Tried it on a short little climb and even out of the saddle there was that little feeling of auto pedal.

Now what do I mean by that? Basically the pedal seemed to help my motion through the dead part of the stroke. I'll have to give more feedback when I get to do a big ride with it. But so far I'm pretty excited!

What I'm disappointed in?
It doesn't come in Red to match the rest of my bike.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Nice job. I'm pretty excited too, can't wait to go out for a ride... but I'm still waiting for my brakes.

Cheers.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Those of you in the US that ordered this ring. Did it just show up one day or did you get some kind of notification that it has shipped? I'm just curious/anxiously waiting for the ones I ordered to show up. Thanks


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

I received an email stating it was going to be shipping, but then US customs held on to it for a week before sending it on.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> Those of you in the US that ordered this ring. Did it just show up one day or did you get some kind of notification that it has shipped? I'm just curious/anxiously waiting for the ones I ordered to show up. Thanks


What Solo-X said


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Mine was possibly sent 9 days ago, will be interesting how long it takes to get to the opposite side of the planet.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Mine was possibly sent 9 days ago, will be interesting how long it takes to get to the opposite side of the planet.


6 days, not too shabby...


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## kgraham11 (Jan 29, 2005)

Ordered on 31Oct, shipping email on 4Nov, hit my mailbox on 14Nov. Finally getting out for a ride this morning. Been wet in Memphis.


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## erichwic (Mar 3, 2004)

earworm said:


> I got my 32t oval a few days after I ordered, I was surprised I got it so fast. I've put about 45 miles on it so far. I installed a new kmc x8.99 chain along with it. I ride trails in southeast Michigan, so far no problems with the chain coming off or anything. I'm just running a single speed setup. I really cant find any drawbacks to the gear, it seems smoother than an all round and seems for me at least it helps out going up the hills. It feels like there's equal pressure throughout my whole pedaling stroke if that makes any sense. It is about 40 more than say a raceface chainring but I say try one out. I don't see any disadvantages to it. I know my next chainring will be their oval 34t.


Why go with the 34t next time? Just wondering. I ride a 32t SS round ring now and was going to order a 32t oval ring. Is it that much easier that a 34t makes more sense? Just don't want to get the wrong size. any input is appreciated.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

oval 34t feels like 33t. If you are comfortable with pushing a little harder (33 instead 32t) and get more speed... go for the 34t oval. If not... then go for the oval 32t and get and easy revolution at same speed.


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## kgraham11 (Jan 29, 2005)

Did a short ride this morning. Initial take, pedal stroke felt somewhat smoother, more consistent. Expected some weird feeling at first but did not experience anything. Still need to get it in some hills and would like to find someone with similar size frame and gearing to do a head to head comparison ride. Both ride a short loop then swap bikes on same loop to get two opinions.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Was going to put the 34t on the 1x10 with 13-40t cassette.
After a ride with that setup, I've decided to try a stock 11-36 cassette with the 32t.

Will do a little ride tonight to test.

The 34t looks like it'd suit the single speed that's currently running 20/32.
Should feel like a 33t for on the hills with the power/speed of a 35t. Win/Win.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Beautiful rings, great science/technology, what sucks is that there isn't one made for a 102 bcd XTR M960 rank! Just ridiculous! Or how about a 64mm 4 bolt 24t (XTR M960) so I can run it as a micro drive set up?


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

If you're manufacturing in small quantities you have to go where the numbers are...ie, if you want to get to try the cool new stuff, get a crank that uses the most common bolt pattern.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Yep, I pretty much got that figured out. I won't hijack the thread with my issues though. would still love to give one a shot one day though.


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## vack (Jan 2, 2003)

I need you guys to make a 28T for a Race Face Cinch, so I can use it on my Fat bike.

Yes I know I can but the spider and run the 32T...but I want a 28 for the winter.


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

*flee bay...*



MTBMILES said:


> Where do you get those for under $20? Seriously


I run 36t with 20 &21t in rear. Cheap NEW rings.....

plus larger ring last longer.....


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## rdrice (Apr 12, 2011)

MTBMILES said:


> Where do you get those for under $20? Seriously


Vuelta SE Flat 104mm BCD 4 Arm MTB Chainring | eBay

I have one but haven't installed if yet. Thinking of ordering the oval ring instead.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

rdrice said:


> Vuelta SE Flat 104mm BCD 4 Arm MTB Chainring | eBay
> 
> I have one but haven't installed if yet. Thinking of ordering the oval ring instead.


I bought the Doval ring on eBay. It's NW on one side.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Just got mine in the mail today and mounted it up. New chain and cog still in the mail, and it's pouring down rain outside. 

Dziękuję Marcin, it did indeed come this week as you e-mailed.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

vack said:


> I need you guys to make a 28T for a Race Face Cinch, so I can use it on my Fat bike.
> 
> Yes I know I can but the spider and run the 32T...but I want a 28 for the winter.


It will happen in January. We will do RF cinch oval rings for sure We just can't make all at once.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

MTBMILES said:


> I bought the Doval ring on eBay. It's NW on one side.


This looks surely like a single oval shape not a Doval (dual oval) shape they promoted . Interesting


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## tTramp14 (Jun 13, 2012)

Will there be oval available in sram bb30 short spindle anytime soon?
I'm looking for a 34t oval.


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

This is similar oval spec as the goldtec wonkey ring - and it just works imo. I've worn through 2 Wonkeys so far and I'll buy a 3rd soon. Same oval max/min ratio, the AB ring crank aligns the crank to hit the max radius a little earlier, about 20 degrees maybe. That could be good. 

The ring I have isn't NW though. I've lost the chain a couple of times when pedalling over rough ground when the chain's run slack but when it has the right tension it's no issue. 

The only issue I've found with these rings is that some EBB frames aren't happy to give full rotation adjust with a ring in the middle-ring position with 36T max radius. Move it to the outer ring or offset the EBB a couple of mm.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

james-o said:


> This is similar oval spec as the goldtec wonkey ring - and it just works imo. ... Same oval max/min ratio, the AB ring crank aligns the crank to hit the max radius a little earlier, about 20 degrees maybe...


This 20deg is a whole world of difference. You will not feel it much initially but over the ride it makes a huge difference. Having biggest radius far too late means also that minimum radius also comes too late so you end up having it in wrong place. And this kills the benefits of the oval rings.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just tried out a 34t oval on the single speed.
Was running 32/20 previously and only in a couple of tight uphill switchbacks was it harder to pedal.
3-4kph higher spinning speed too.

I like it.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Whats the AB incompatibility with kmc x10sl chains?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

otsenresiul said:


> Whats the AB incompatibility with kmc x10sl chains?


Is there an incompatibly?


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

I readed lines up tehan saying the incompatibility issue with kmc was solved with the new kmc DLC series.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

otsenresiul said:


> I readed lines up tehan saying the incompatibility issue with kmc was solved with the new kmc DLC series.


Hey,
From few months it is solved with all the chains. So what is on the market now is already improved version.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Ok... but id like to know what was the matter. Would you mind?
Ty.


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

Rcvd my 104bc 34t oval ring a week ago and mounted it up to my SS. Did a 60 mile, 7kft ride yesterday with it and really liked it. Quality of the product is top notch and timeliness of delivery was good.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

chain rollers were bigger on older versions of the KMC chains. We are talking here only 0.1mm but with addition of mud on the chain and chainring this caused some chain binding to the chainring. Now rollers are same diameter as other brands have.


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## otsenresiul (Sep 26, 2014)

Great!


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

Finally received my 34 tooth Oval Chain ring, ordered on November 3rd and found it in the mail on the 28th. Packaging was solid and in a cool black envelope. As soon as I opened the package I was pleasantly surprised how solid the ring felt. It did feel a little heavier then a standard ring. Weighing my raceface ring that came in at 36 grams, the Oval from Absolute Black came in at 44 grams.

Installation:. I was unable to mount the chainring with the cool machining marks on the outside. I needed to flip the ring around to have it mount properly to my Turbine cranks. The chainring bolts I have are to long and the machined hole was not allowing the bolt to bottom out. No biggy. I don't see any reason the ring won't work properly this way.

I took Marcin's advice and put a brand new Sram PC-850 chain on my SS Pugs. While tensioning the chain, I noticed I couldn't get the adjustment right using the far back hole on my Surly Tug, I needed to go up to the front hole&#8230;again, no biggy. Chain line was perfect and I think I got the tension perfect. Not able to ride today, but plan on going out Sunday to give it a shake down.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Won't it be clocked differently/wrong if flipped?


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

NordieBoy said:


> Won't it be clocked differently/wrong if flipped?


Its a oval no matter which way you look at it or flip it. The crank arm still lined up with the arrow and the big part of the oval was at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. I think it will be fine. Time will tell or other mtbr.com forum members can chime in.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

DubzOxford said:


> Its a oval no matter which way you look at it or flip it. The crank arm still lined up with the arrow and the big part of the oval was at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. I think it will be fine. Time will tell or other mtbr.com forum members can chime in.


Looks like the power stroke is going to be coming in about 45* early?


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

I got my first ride on the 34t today. 1x10!setup with an 11-36 cassette. Very impressed with the quality of the ring first. The narrow wide pattern is significantly more built than a race face so I expect it to last, it was 11 grams Lighther than my race face 36. I had the Rotor Q-Ring in a 38 so I'm no stranger to oval rings and know they work.

Compared to a 38 oval and a 36 round this ring gives me more useable gears. Whar I mean is, in any given section of trail there's usually 2-3 gears you can possibly be in ideally. With the 34t oval I feel like it's more like 4-5 gears, torque is always there. Part of that is the fact I went smaller, but the oval really does bring power on more smoothly and with the oval you tend to push a higher gear. I don't do strava or anything like that so I can't give you solid data, but I cleared trails faster today with less effort. At the end of the ride I wasn't as beat as usual and my legs had a nice even burn going on. Whet shocked me the most was my top end, I thought going smaller ring would kill it, but on a sprint I went over 30mph so I'm stoked.

In a nutshell:
More perceived power
Smoother application of torque
Easier to hold a nice pace on the road at a highish cadence 
Lightweight and appears durable


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## vegan_warrior (Aug 22, 2012)

In regards to flipping it, you would
Need the small triangle opposite the crabk arm to run it flipped


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Ready to go! It's gonna be cold as **** tomorrow, at least for here but I'll get in a quick ride if possible.


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## unabashedlypro (Nov 14, 2014)

I have finally had a couple of rides on my Absolute Black oval ring and cogs and am happy so far. I have done both flattish and quite hilly rides and am stoked all around. I found it easier to spin consistently at a high cadence while chasing my geared pals on the flats and felt more confident spinning into short rollers (<200ft vert.) I may just be fat and slow right now, but I did feel that i tired more quickly on short steep climbs and I actually dismounted and walked a couple of climbs that I normally ride (with great effort.) This could possibly be a chain tension issue-I am switching from a belt drive and don't think I have the chain tension quite dialed yet. 

So for so good! More to come


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

Flipping the chain ring did not look like it would work the way it was designed to. I found some chainring bolts and was able to mount it properly.

Headed out for a ride today on dirt roads I have spent many miles on to get an idea of how the ring would compare to my round 34tooth raceface. Right away when I started to pedal I could feel the gearing felt bigger. I was running 34x16 in the past and now the oval made if feel like 35x16. I started to hit the hills and had to stand and climb on a lot of the climbs I usually stay seated, the effort to keep the pedals turning was much more then with the round ring. 

I ended up with 34 miles and a little over 1100ft of climbing. At the end of the ride my legs were pretty baked from all the standing, and had some pain start up in my left knee. Usually this pain starts when I start pushing a harder gear in spring. This tells me that the oval did make the gearing harder. I will go back to my 17 on the rear and keep the oval for a while to see how I like it.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

1SPD said:


> Beautiful rings, great science/technology, what sucks is that there isn't one made for a 102 bcd XTR M960 rank! Just ridiculous! Or how about a 64mm 4 bolt 24t (XTR M960) so I can run it as a micro drive set up?


yeah no kidding, WTF?


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

DubzOxford said:


> Flipping the chain ring did not look like it would work the way it was designed to. I found some chainring bolts and was able to mount it properly.
> 
> Headed out for a ride today on dirt roads I have spent many miles on to get an idea of how the ring would compare to my round 34tooth raceface. Right away when I started to pedal I could feel the gearing felt bigger. I was running 34x16 in the past and now the oval made if feel like 35x16. I started to hit the hills and had to stand and climb on a lot of the climbs I usually stay seated, the effort to keep the pedals turning was much more then with the round ring.
> 
> I ended up with 34 miles and a little over 1100ft of climbing. At the end of the ride my legs were pretty baked from all the standing, and had some pain start up in my left knee. Usually this pain starts when I start pushing a harder gear in spring. This tells me that the oval did make the gearing harder. I will go back to my 17 on the rear and keep the oval for a while to see how I like it.


I was thinking about this today on my ride and reached the same conclusion; The oval ring is probably something like a 1 tooth increase on the front ring.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

DubzOxford said:


> Headed out for a ride today on dirt roads I have spent many miles on to get an idea of how the ring would compare to my round 34tooth raceface. Right away when I started to pedal I could feel the gearing felt bigger. I was running 34x16 in the past and now the oval made if feel like 35x16. I started to hit the hills and had to stand and climb on a lot of the climbs I usually stay seated, the effort to keep the pedals turning was much more then with the round ring.


34/16?! I'd have to stand on the flat with that!

I went from 32round/20 to 34oval/20.
Climbing got fractionally harder (feels like 33), traction increased along with top end speed.
Strava liked it too. Multiple PR's on the climbing segments.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

DubzOxford said:


> Its a oval no matter which way you look at it or flip it. The crank arm still lined up with the arrow and the big part of the oval was at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock. I think it will be fine. Time will tell or other mtbr.com forum members can chime in.


Hey,
Not exactly. This ring can't be flipped. If you flip it like you did you use it with wrong clocking. So the ring will behave completly different to what we intended.

So please do not flip the ring.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

this may be your temporarily perception. Technically, oval 34T is not "harder" than round 34T. 
If you got used to one gear combination for long then it will take 3-4 weeks to get used to something new. Keep riding and you will see big improvement.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

you sure it is correctly mounted?

If it is and you feel it from some reason a bit harder to push than round 34T then change your cog to bit bigger one for first few weeks and then go back to 16T you have now. 
But to be fair 34/16T is a quite a big gear to push anyway. Don't know where you live but if it is hilly then I would use something like 34/18 minimum. Extremely low cadence is not good for your knees regardless the chainring shape.


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## OxRocks (Sep 17, 2007)

Maybe he's riding 34/16 on a 26er...


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

tehan said:


> you sure it is correctly mounted?
> 
> If it is and you feel it from some reason a bit harder to push than round 34T then change your cog to bit bigger one for first few weeks and then go back to 16T you have now.
> But to be fair 34/16T is a quite a big gear to push anyway. Don't know where you live but if it is hilly then I would use something like 34/18 minimum. Extremely low cadence is not good for your knees regardless the chainring shape.


I'm 99.9% sure it is mounted correctly. I will double check tonight. Thank you.

I have always pushed a big gear, I'm more a masher then a spinner. I did switch back to the 17 tooth last night. It did feel more comfortable for me.

The perception of being harder is tough to get past when I was standing more then sitting on a lot of the climbs. :madman: It could be a mental thing, but it sure felt like a 35 tooth in the front.

I live in Michigan, and to do 1500 to 2000 ft of climbing is average per ride. Our biggest hills are only a few hundred feet and take less then 5 minutes to climb. Most of our trails offer short steeper climbs that I can stand and power up with the big gear. I like the big gear on the back road rides, it allows me to hang with the skinny XC guys. :thumbsup:

Thanks again for offering suggestion and thoughts.


----------



## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

Hey tehan (or anyone with the correct scoop), just got my oval ring to run on my Hollowgrams, but decided to try them on some Raceface Next SLs. I currently have a direct mount and need some help ordering the correct 104 spider. Should I just get the 2x spider, or, they also have what they call a 104 removable for six/bmx........? 

Thanks in advance.

Also, it is going on a F29 with sram xx1 if that makes any difference.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Can you send the actual diameter of the 34t?

I might hit CS of yelli screamy in a 34t front OR mess up the chainline/bearings if spaced futher out.


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## njSS (Jun 5, 2013)

Received my 32t about 2 weeks back and finally got it mounted up and out on the trails on Sunday. Currently running 20t cog with the 32 oval on my Crave SS 29er.

Like nearly everyone else here that has already posted, power delivery to the rear wheel was very consistent and smooth! Because of the rain and snow we received in NJ last week, we had to go to a dryer trail system I wasn't very familiar with and did not have any data collected from riding there previously. It's a sandy, relatively flowy trail system with some short, punchy climbs with some roots and minimal rocks. On the flats, I was able to maintain or push a slightly quicker cadence without bouncing out of the saddle where I would have previously been spinning out. On the punchy climbs, I never broke traction and the bike just seemed to keep climbing with a consistent power output from my legs. In these climbs in the past I would be near stalling out at such a low cadence, but with the oval it felt like I was able to keep standing and mashing at a relatively higher cadence so climbs felt better on the knees and legs overall.

Only 17 miles in with the new oval but I'm loving the feeling it has given me so far and will be able to get back to my usual riding spots within the next few weeks to compare directly with most of my rides this season. May be interested in picking up a 34 once it hits US distributors.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi, just to check...how long does it take to receive AbsoulteBlack OVAL ring upon purchase online? 

I placed an order on 4th November but has yet to receive the item as of today. Sent an email enquiry to them on 26 Nov but did not get a response. Anyone can advise? Thanks!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

10 days or so from ordering to receiving in New Zealand.
Wasn't at a busy time for them though.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi,
It really depends what you ordered. 
We are a bit behind with sending Sram oval rings as there were many orders and we couldn't produce enough on time. Good news is that we send all backorders on Friday. 
Really sorry for that delay. Starting mass production of new complicated product is not easy and we had to do some optimization which took longer than expected.

Rest of products is mostly in stock all the time, so we send it within 2 days from order date. We may be short a bit on 104BCD ovals but longest you need to wait at the moment is 3-4days for next batch.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

34T oval has biggest diameter of 152.2mm
32T oval has biggest diameter of 143.7mm

Virtually any frame will accept it in middle position as these are not big rings really.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Btw, We finally managed to make some real photos of Sram Oval chainring.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Yelli screamy will have problems on a 34t single  hence an oval 32t wont get in unless totally messing up the chainline by moving outward... 

No issues with small cogs but with the larger ones especially if going for a 42t cassette mod.


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

OxRocks said:


> Maybe he's riding 34/16 on a 26er...


26" Fatty.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nice pictures. What would be *really* nice: If you could actually deliver the rings that you've sold.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Nice pictures. What would be *really* nice: If you could actually deliver the rings that you've sold.


why the hostility? The website clearly states that it is out of stock...I don't think anyone is being misled into ordering it thinking it was in stock and ready to ship.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> why the hostility? The website clearly states that it is out of stock...I don't think anyone is being misled into ordering it thinking it was in stock and ready to ship.


The website gave a clear date by which this specific ring would be shipped and delivered. That date passed _weeks_ ago.

AB sent an email saying "Don't worry, it might be a month late but you'll love it when it gets there".

I can't love something I don't have.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

mikesee said:


> Nice pictures. What would be *really* nice: If you could actually deliver the rings that you've sold.


Wrong thread man, the HBC thread is on page 8.

I'll admit that I've been waiting for my GXP direct mount oval for longer than expected, but I knew when I ordered an out of stock ring that I'd need to wait a bit. I received the "shipped" email a few days ago and can't wait for customs to get done processing it and sending it on to me. I got the other 2 rings I ordered, which were in stock, in a couple of weeks. They shipped within 2 days of my order being placed, but customs sat on them for over a week before sending them on.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Nice pictures. What would be *really* nice: If you could actually deliver the rings that you've sold.


We are shipping them constantly according to order date. by This Monday We will ship all the orders I guess.

I know that we promised a different date, but we got so many orders every day and still getting that it was very hard to catch up initially. Now we are almost there.

To further reiterate the case. There is no worry that someone will not get the ring. 95% of our parts is in stock and we send usually next day from the order date.

The only exception at the moment is Sram oval where we catching up with backorders. So by Monday we will send all old and new orders and possibly will have some free stock as well.

I know some of you have been waiting long and I am really sorry. But we did not expect such an interest in such short time especially after the wave of negativeness at the start of this thread


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

spyghost said:


> Yelli screamy will have problems on a 34t single  hence an oval 32t wont get in unless totally messing up the chainline by moving outward...
> 
> No issues with small cogs but with the larger ones especially if going for a 42t cassette mod.


you can't put our oval 32T on the outward position due to integrated spacers. So it needs to sit on middle position where chainline is optimal.
Good news for you is we will do 28T oval for 64BCD this will please some of you who need something smaller than 30T.

28T oval will be equivalent of 26/30T round so will cover many bases here like this example with Yelli screamy users or Fatties if you need smaller ring.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

mikesee said:


> The website gave a clear date by which this specific ring would be shipped and delivered. That date passed _weeks_ ago.
> 
> AB sent an email saying "Don't worry, it might be a month late but you'll love it when it gets there".
> 
> I can't love something I don't have.


I kind of agree with you there in that I think AB should do a better job of informing the customer of when the package is shipped and I also think part of the issue is the high shipping charge leading the customer to think that shipping time will be short.
I ordered a 32T 104BCD oval ring on 11/5. I think the expected ship date on the website was 11/10 or 11/11, can't remember exactly. The package I received was postmarked on 11/13 from Poland and it showed up at my door on 11/26 so almost 2 whole weeks to get from Poland to California. 
During this time, the only e-mail I received from AB was on 11/11 with some cryptic message about the ring being sold out and my order would be received in a couple of days....this whole time I was left wondering if my order has shipped or not. 
So yeah, I guess I can understand your frustration and I think this is one place AB can improve upon. The package has a tracking number so there should be no reason why AB can't let the customer know the number so they can track it

I only got 1 ride(unfamiliar trail with a lot of elevation gain) on the 32T on a geared bike before the rains came. Was running a 30T before and I think for me the main benefit is that it allowed me to ride for a longer time before getting tired. So far I think I like it but I will know more once I'm able to get a ride in on my home trail.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Before we started getting such an amount of orders on oval rings we were informing every customer about everything, including tracking numbers etc. 

But currently due to so many orders we simply can't do that. We have a choice of doing it slow and write tracking numbers etc or focus on sending as many parcels as possible. We chose the former option form obvious reasons. 

We are growing the company but this will not happen in 35days. So again we are sorry for not informing everyone about everything as at this point it is really hard. What we can promise is every single person will get his chainring.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I would take 2X spider to that crank.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

tehan said:


> Hi,
> It really depends what you ordered.
> We are a bit behind with sending Sram oval rings as there were many orders and we couldn't produce enough on time. Good news is that we send all backorders on Friday.
> Really sorry for that delay. Starting mass production of new complicated product is not easy and we had to do some optimization which took longer than expected.
> ...


I ordered OVAL Sram xx1, 32T, Black. (The stock was available when I placed the order)

It has been a long wait for more than a month. Planning to fix the oval ring on my Mach 6 and stress test it in Rotorua and Queenstown trails. Thought I plan well ahead to place the order before December New Zealand riding trip. Looks like going to miss it. Would have updated my blog on the oval ring...


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i think mike needs an enema


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

tehan said:


> I would take 2X spider to that crank.


If this is in regards to my question, thanks, I ordered a 2x earlier today, and will get it tomorrow. State cross championships are Sat. so I'll give it a good test next week, and add to the reviews.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Chris,
Sram oval rings were never "in stock" since we launched them as demand is big. Like I said we ship constantly backorders according to order date. By Monday all will be sent to old and current customers.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

tehan said:


> Chris,
> Sram oval rings were never "in stock" since we launched them as demand is big. Like I said we ship constantly backorders according to order date. By Monday all will be sent to old and current customers.


My eyesight might have failed, would not order if item status is "out-of-stock" as I will be away to NZ for quite a while. Don't think I will receive it before my trip.

Thanks and have a good day.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

chris9888 said:


> My eyesight might have failed, would not order if item status is "out-of-stock" as I will be away to NZ for quite a while. Don't think I will receive it before my trip.
> 
> Thanks and have a good day.


As I recall, they never said In Stock. Just that they were accepting pre-orders with an original ship date of Nov 5th. That got pushed back twice by my fuzzy recollection.

Nobody can control how long US Customs hangs on to a package. ~2 weeks seems to be the average, but I've had one package I ordered from the UK sit for nearly a month.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

whats up with this? it doesn't even come close to seating properly. like the teeth are too wide and prevent the chain from sitting down fully, and it creates a bigger circle and ends up short after ~8 teeth. and that's a chain with 300 miles on it (so slightly stretched).

didn't know i'd have to buy another chain after spending $85 on a ring.

this is a connex 7r8 1/2 x 3/32 single speed chain. and i don't want to use a different kind because i've broken everything else i've used.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

You sure that chain is stretched "only a little"? That chain is stretched a LOT.

At any rate, you should always replace the chain when you put a new chain ring on IMO.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

solo-x said:


> You sure that chain is stretched "only a little"? That chain is stretched a LOT.
> 
> At any rate, you should always replace the chain when you put a new chain ring on IMO.


the chain is too short, not too long. the bushings physically won't reach the next dip between the chainring teeth they're supposed to fall into....the bushing isn't falling too far down the line and hitting the next tooth as it would with a stretched chain.

and i just built the bike up a couple rides ago, and it's a beefy chain. no reason to replace it, imho. which, if anything, would only make the problem worse.

(and i'm aware it's a wide/narrow ring.....it's not positioned wrong on the chainring or one tooth off)


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Ah, my bad, didn't look close enough at the picture. I think this is the same problem the old KMC chains had. The roller is bigger diameter than standard. Tehan can comment if this was the behavior those chains had.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nomit said:


> the chain is too short, not too long. the bushings physically won't reach the next dip between the chainring teeth they're supposed to fall into....the bushing isn't falling too far down the line and hitting the next tooth as it would with a stretched chain.
> 
> and i just built the bike up a couple rides ago, and it's a beefy chain. no reason to replace it, imho. which, if anything, would only make the problem worse.
> 
> (and i'm aware it's a wide/narrow ring.....it's not positioned wrong on the chainring or one tooth off)


This chain is stretched a lot already or out of spec. You should always put new chain with new chainring - this is a standard practise. I can assure you that chainring is fine. Just change the chain for brand new.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

nomit said:


> whats up with this? it doesn't even come close to seating properly. like the teeth are too wide and prevent the chain from sitting down fully, and it creates a bigger circle and ends up short after ~8 teeth. and that's a chain with 300 miles on it (so slightly stretched).
> 
> didn't know i'd have to buy another chain after spending $85 on a ring.
> 
> this is a connex 7r8 1/2 x 3/32 single speed chain. and i don't want to use a different kind because i've broken everything else i've used.


that looks pretty odd. Looking at the picture, your crank arm is a 9 o'clock position and at 3 o'clock position the chain looks like it fits ok. at about 1 and 4 o'clock looks like it start getting out of sync. 
What happens if you spin the crank arm to say 6 o'clock position? if the places the chain fit on and doesn't fit on stays at the same place then I would say it is a chain compatibility issue. If the places the chain fits/doesn't fit changes when you move the crank arm, then most likely that ring is out of spec.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

tehan said:


> This chain is stretched a lot already. You should always put new chain with new chainring - this is a standard practise. I can assure you that chainring is fine. Just change the chain for brand new...
> New chainring will not accept stretched chain. Put new and you will see yourself that it works perfectly.


i'm not spending $40 to show you, when you can clearly see in the picture.

the chain is too short, not too long. a new chain of the same model won't solve it. i've attempted to install stretched chains on new rings before, and this is not what's happening here.

look from right to left as the chain comes over the top or through the bottom. the bushings fall further and further forward on each tooth, not further and further back.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Every chain now works perfectly fine. This is just good example of how stretched chain looks like on new ring and why there is always need to put new chain with new chainring. Otherwise you just damage the chainring from the start.


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## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

Tehan look at the image Nomit posted. I can clearly see that that chain is behaving the opposite of stretched, by quite a large amount.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nomit said:


> i'm not spending $40 to show you, when you can clearly see in the picture.
> 
> the chain is too short, not too long. a new chain of the same model won't solve it. i've attempted to install stretched chains on new rings before, and this is not what's happening here.
> 
> look from right to left as the chain comes over the top or through the bottom. the bushings fall further and further forward on each tooth, not further and further back.


I can assure you that it is stretched chain. You have attempted to put worn chain on other rings - fine. Our rings are different to hold for longer and I am just saying that it will not be possible to put old chain on our new ring.

If you buy new one and it will not fit I will pay for one myself! We sold thousands of these rings and have 100% quality control. I know what I am talking about.

However you lok at it it is stretched chain. I hear your logic but I am telling you that chain is out of spec due to use. Chainring is fine.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

tehan said:


> Every chain now works perfectly fine. This is just good example of how stretched chain looks like on new ring and why there is always need to put new chain with new chainring. Otherwise you just damage the chainring from the start.


another closer pictured attached.

this ring doesn't allow the chain to seat down enough, which effectively makes it short.

i'm not stupid, and my legs aren't nearly strong enough to stretch a single speed chain that much in a couple hundred miles. not to mention it fits perfectly on a brand new new blackspire chainring that i have.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I just offered you that I will pay myself for new chain if you buy one and it will not fit. what else can I say to make a point?
If you buy a new chain and it will not fit you will get yourself a new ring and I will pay for your chain, so you don't risk.


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

nomit said:


> another closer pictured attached.
> 
> this ring doesn't allow the chain to seat down enough, which effectively makes it short.
> 
> i'm not stupid, *and my legs aren't nearly strong enough to stretch a single speed chain that much in a couple hundred miles.* not to mention it fits perfectly on a brand new new blackspire chainring that i have.


You said in your first post that you break every other chain you've had.

Your chain is stretched, plain and simple.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

It kinda looks like the teeth get farther apart at the top of the oval? Can you remove the chain from the side of the oval and get it to seat around the top of the oval?


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

That chain is beat. Replace...


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

On further examination, I think the chain is stretched. 
Although it looks like the links that are raised are hitting short, if you look at the links that are meshed, they are hitting long, and eventually, too long to seat properly.

So, after the first link fails to seat it raises up and makes the subsequent links look like they are coming up short. 

OP, even if you could get this chain to work on this ring or any other, you shouldn't want to do that. A stretched chain will wreck a chain ring.


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## colmor (Dec 17, 2011)

smilinsteve said:


> On further examination, I think the chain is stretched.
> Although it looks like the links that are raised are hitting short, if you look at the links that are meshed, they are hitting long, and eventually, too long to seat properly.
> 
> So, after the first link fails to seat it raises up and makes the subsequent links look like they are coming up short.


This description of why it's rising up and looking short actually makes a lot of sense.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Just measure the chain.....then you'll know for sure if it is stretched. From center to center of each pin should be 1/2 inch or 12.7 mm. Measure a foot of chain and if the pin is 1/8 inch or more past the 1 foot mark then your chain won't work with a new ring (according to Sheldon Brown).


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

i feel like i'm in the twilight zone.



evenflo said:


> You said in your first post that you break every other chain you've had.
> 
> Your chain is stretched, plain and simple.


i break them long before i stretch them 1/2" over 15 links. it is not stretched.



irishpitbull said:


> That chain is beat. Replace...


i have a 50 mile ride, a handful of 30's and a couple night spins. it's not made out of elastic. this is one of the most durable chains you can buy.



scottg said:


> Just measure the chain.....then you'll know for sure if it is stretched. From center to center of each pin should be 1/2 inch or 12.7 mm. Measure a foot of chain and if the pin is 1/8 inch or more past the 1 foot mark then your chain won't work with a new ring (according to Sheldon Brown).


every 18" of chain is exactly 18" long....with every bushing falling on 1/2". just checked with a new stanley fatmax tape measure that's hopefully not stretched either.



smilinsteve said:


> On further examination, I think the chain is stretched.
> Although it looks like the links that are raised are hitting short, if you look at the links that are meshed, they are hitting long, and eventually, too long to seat properly.
> 
> So, after the first link fails to seat it raises up and makes the subsequent links look like they are coming up short.
> ...


nope.

look in attached picture to see how the chain bushings correspond to their seats between the teeth. the teeth are never pushing the chain together. it's seated correctly in the front, and gradually the chain bushings cannot reach their respective positions as it makes the circle in either direction. meaning the chain is not seating completely in every valley, which makes it run an effectively greater circumference, and it comes up short of where it should be.

attached is also a picture of the same chain fitting perfectly around a new blackspire ring. no slop in the chain, no having to jam it between the rings....etc.

also attached is a picture of a brand new section of chain that was leftover from original install and i carry as spare links. does not have one mile on it, or one lap around the sprocket. has exactly the same issue.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

nomit said:


> another closer pictured attached.
> 
> this ring doesn't allow the chain to seat down enough, which effectively makes it short.
> 
> i'm not stupid, and my legs aren't nearly strong enough to stretch a single speed chain that much in a couple hundred miles. not to mention it fits perfectly on a brand new new blackspire chainring that i have.


Any chance your chain is 1/8"? Perhaps it was mislabeled or stuffed into the wrong box or something?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Square edged teeth on the AB vs slightly more chamfered on the BS?


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## evenflo (Apr 23, 2013)

Why don't you take tehan up on his offer and prove us all wrong? 

Also, you can often wrap a stretched chain over a regular (not narrow/wide) chainring, and not be able to wrap it on a narrow/wide, due to the profile........which is pretty much.......duh....................but, whatever, and good luck.

Because....winter


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## rusty_ss (Jan 28, 2006)

I have had exactly the same thing with a new track chain on a raceface narrow-wide. I suspect it's just an incompatibility issue.


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## unabashedlypro (Nov 14, 2014)

mikesee said:


> Any chance your chain is 1/8"? Perhaps it was mislabeled or stuffed into the wrong box or something?


This.

I had the same issue when I first tried to fit the AB ring on my bike....I was just trying to get out for a quick spin and grabbed a lightly used spare chain out of my tool box and couldn't get it to seat. Swapped in a nice 9 spd. chain and the thing is *****in.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

evenflo said:


> Why don't you take tehan up on his offer and prove us all wrong?


i just did. there's a picture of a brand new, unstretched chain that does not fit.

.

anyways, it's pretty obviously a compatibility issue. just frustrated that it's essentially built and marketed for a single speed application, but it won't fit a stout single speed chain, and there's no mention of this potential issue.

so, what's the strongest most durable chain that WILL fit this ring....that tehan will potentially fit the bill for?


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

check numerous threads regarding chains. beefy SS chain doesn't mean anything, pick up a decent 10sp chain and install it right.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

nomit said:


> i just did. there's a picture of a brand new, unstretched chain that does not fit.
> 
> .
> 
> ...


I had the same issue as you, and ended up removing my AB ring after breaking an almost new (bought new just for the AB ring) 10spd chain using it. I prefer the strength of 1/8 chains for SS applications, not to mention my preferred cogs don't like the 9-10spd chains because they're dedicated SS cogs made for 1/8 or 3/32 chains. I was running an endless with the AB ring, which worked fine however.

I do still stand by my statement that I think standing, mashing loose climbs seemed to have a slight increase in traction, possibly due to smoothing the power stroke. Beyond that, I couldn't tell much difference vs a round ring. After a normal ride, I was just as beat as usual. It was an interesting experiment, but I'm going back to normal rings, at least for my single speeds.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Sorry to derail the chain drama, just wanted to say that I FINALLY got a ride on mine. As advertised it does indeed feel like a smoother rotation than the regular 32 I had on it before. 

I ran the same route as my last ride on the SS. Nothing close a controlled scientific study (32/18 instead of 32/16, fully rigid carbon fork instead of locked out suspension fork, raining and muddy instead of sunny and cold, hung over instead of feeling good and so on) but at the end of the day average speed was 8.7 mph instead of 8. 

Regardless of the speed which may or may not be due to some other factor, I will say that on my limited test it felt better both in and out of the saddle. Enough that I'll probably order one for my 5010 1x10 rig at some point when real distance spring riding ramps up.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

fishcreek said:


> check numerous threads regarding chains. beefy SS chain doesn't mean anything, pick up a decent 10sp chain and install it right.


New XT or XTR 10-speed chains are just about as strong as they come, and they fit NW rings.

If he's breaking so many chains on a SS, maybe it's the chainline on whatever bikes he's been riding before that sucked.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

My chainring accepts the 1/8 chain with no problem so why don't you use one?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

So your chain is then well out of spec.
I just went to the shop and bought 1/8" KMC Z1X chain to put this thing to bed finally.

As you can see chain fits perfectly well and this is one of the strongest 1/8" chain you can locally have. So chainring is fine.

Reason why yours may not fit is because we use much more precisely calculated and machined teeth then rest of the market. That means the chain fits like a glove on the chainring and there is almost any play. Where with RF, Blackspire, Sram (you name it) ring you have a bit of play. This is why our chainrings live 2-4x longer than competition. So if new chain has any deviation from the bike standards it will not fit. So it seems this is a good example where actually new chain is out of spec.
It fits to other rings as they have completely different teeth profile - they are more open.

Just get this KMC or similar and you will enjoy the ring.
Can we put this chain thing to bed now?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nomit said:


> i just did. there's a picture of a brand new, unstretched chain that does not fit.


I see mud and dirt on this short piece of chain form last photo, so if you refer to it as brand new then we think about something else.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

tehan said:


> I see mud and dirt on this short piece of chain form last photo, so if you refer to it as brand new then we think about something else.


its been rattling around in my camelback, i didn't save that NEW section of chain in a sterile environment for this photoshoot.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

In the picture of the "new" piece of chain, again, the last roller on the engaged part looks like it is hitting long, making the subsequent unengaged links hit short. It looks stretched. 
Tehan showed that a new 1/8 chain fits. Buy a new friggin chain. If it doesn't fit, he'll pay for it. 
If buying a new chain is such a big deal for you, maybe you need to find a cheaper hobby?


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Seriously, it seems like he wants it to be an argument. Just buy a friggin new chain already. Dude will pay for it if it doesn't work. Jesus H.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

smilinsteve said:


> In the picture of the "new" piece of chain, again, the last roller on the engaged part looks like it is hitting long, making the subsequent unengaged links hit short. It looks stretched.


i can tell you with absolute certainty that is not the case.



> Tehan showed that a new 1/8 chain fits. Buy a new friggin chain. If it doesn't fit, he'll pay for it.
> If buying a new chain is such a big deal for you, maybe you need to find a cheaper hobby?


it's not even about having to buy a new chain. it's about some accountability as a company to say "you're right, we failed to mention that despite this being marketed as a single speed chain ring....not all single speed chains fit it due to manufacturing differences. we recommend ____, _____ and _____ model chains because they're strong and proven to work with our chain rings"

instead its "no, trust me....that chains stretched. even though it's obvious from 4 pictures that the chain is too spec and coming up short of where it should be, and it fits on other rings, and a brand new piece of the same chain does not fit....it must be stretched or 'out of spec' from the manufacturer"


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Nomit, the rollers on your chain are larger than average. Buy a different brand chain and see what happens. Tehan already told you he'd eat it if he was wrong and a new chain doesn't fix the issue.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Tehan says that recently some KMC chains had rollers that were 0.1mm larger than spec and that also caused a problem. Maybe similar issue?
Also may explain why they're a bit stronger than other chains?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

All chains will work fine. 
What Nomit showed is in my opinion out of spec chain (most likely from new). I am not sure if it is only his particular piece or entire model, but this is something beyond my control.

All 8,9,10,11 speed chains and 1/8 chains which we tried fit perfectly well. That is Shimano, Sram, KMC in numerous models.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Tehan says that recently some KMC chains had rollers that were 0.1mm larger than spec and that also caused a problem. Maybe similar issue?
> Also may explain why they're a bit stronger than other chains?


chain is not stronger due to bigger rollers but better materials and treatment. Wear of the chain is on the pins mostly - this is why it gets "longer".
This is why any 1/8 chain is not really stronger than good 9,10,11 spd chain. This is a common mis concept. Bigger doesn't have to be stronger..

Reality is good 1/8" chain and 8,9,10 spd chain have almost same tensile strength of about 1100kg! A World class Track rider can "only" generate 350kg of force when starting from dead stop on the race. Average person will generate not more than 100kg.

Reasons why some of you break let say 9,10 spd chains are:
*misalignment of the cog vs chainring - if they are not in line chain is bent a bit and may open one of the links under bigger force.(very common)
* Improper connection of the chain. If you use a pin to connect it, make sure it is done properly. Safer option is quick link as it is less likely you will mess it up.
* lack of lube and using one chain for few seasons.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This one is well worth reading about Oval rings:

From Inside Peloton: SLO Motion ? Peloton

"Round rings do not optimize the way humans produce power. It's as simple as that. Anyone interested in going faster on their bike needs to switch to oval rings. As O'Hara's study percolates through the pro peloton and the entire cycling community, 10 years from now, when only vintage bikes have round rings, we will look back on her study as the turning point."


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

tehan said:


> All chains will work fine.
> What Nomit showed is in my opinion out of spec chain (most likely from new). I am not sure if it is only his particular piece or entire model, but this is something beyond my control.


Agreed, 100%. And a chain with loose tolerances and poor QA mated to a chain ring with very tight tolerances (tight tolerances = better chain retention...) is a recipe for incompatibility.


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## DJSS (Dec 13, 2014)

Hey Ben,
I run a 34 Q ring on my niner in the position that would be the largest ring spot on a 3x crankset that way it won't chew your frame, otherwise you'll have to position the BB in the forward position. A 34T is like a 37T at the high point on a Q ring or 36 for AB. I'll will use AB when i need a new one. One of the best upgrades for SS, my other fave is a PROTAPER® CARBON 720 ENDURO 20/20 helps when climbing.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

The issue with placing the 34t on the as replacement for the biggest ring is that it will cross chain in a 10 speed casette


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## DJSS (Dec 13, 2014)

Funny mines not crossed, although it's position end of cassette


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Can you post a pic how you installed? I reckon no spacers?


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## DJSS (Dec 13, 2014)

*Not crossed as you can see.*


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I got mine some weeks ago and I'm finally ready to give a few comments of my experiences:



Here's the bike. It has recently gone through some other changes that also affect climbing and power input to the pedals, but I'm able to tell various differences apart. For example I've moved the bar forward and down from my previous setting, which allows better mashing. On the other hand I've dropped one tooth from the cog so it's 34/19 now.

Finish and installation was excellent and easy, but chain tension varies a little bit more than I expected. I adjusted the tight spot as instructed and the chain goes slack twice per one rotation of the cranks, so it's the oval shape, not a centering issue. Some of this was to be expected and the narrow + wide tooth profile really grabs the chain, so I don't worry about the chain dropping. 
4/5 for this part of the evaluation.

In case you haven't followed the topic from the start, I have previous experience with oval rings (Biopace) and I've done commuting with a light-geared fixed bike (34/18 w. 35 mm tires), so I'm confident to say my spinning technique is quite refined and flexible. Getting used to Absolute Black oval rings was a matter of strokes: I could feel pressure of the pedals "escape" my foot at the top dead center, so I shifted a little bit of focus towards a slight acceleration there. From there I quickly stopped noticing it at all.
5/5 for ease of getting used to the different rotational speeds.

Uphill is where the fun really started, because elsewhere the ring had become "invisible". We've had some fresh snowfall followed by non-freezing temperatures, so a couple of uphills that I've climbed countless times were slippery in a way that only ice would be worse. With a round ring I would slip the rear tire, have the cranks point up and down and stall. Of course I could stay in a track-stand, backpedal 1/3 turns and restart without touching the ground, but it has always been a hassle. (With a geared bike I could gear low, shift weight back and climb with better control - not possible with SS.) 
With the new AB oval ring I would slip the rear tire in a less sudden fashion than before, and with the cranks up and down the pedals could be pushed over for the next stroke more quickly. The climb was uninterrupted and slipping in the rear was more continuous, rather than one big slip that would leave me in a dead spot. Earlier in this thread I had a different opinion of the orientation, but I have to admit I was wrong. Easiest spot at the top + some acceleration arc to meet the toughest spot at 4 o'clock worked much better than I expected in these conditions. 
5/5 for uphill performance.

I'm a hobbyist and put much more focus in the experience of riding a trail, than lab results. An important thing to note is that I'm not riding a road bike and I don't have gears. It is impossible to maintain constant cadence, because there are physical obstacles in the way and maintaining traction is sometimes a struggle. Lab results would tell you that a knobby low-pressure tire doesn't roll well, but I prefer them on an actual trail. Lab results might say this or that about oval rings, but with the bike and trails I use, the experience was positive.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks for the comments Saul. Really appreciate this.
I am sure you will like it even more after few additional weeks. Your muscles will adapt to it fully and then you should see more gains than already observed.


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## DJSS (Dec 13, 2014)

Saul sometimes you just gotta try to believe. Nice bike, drop it like it's hot bars cool. Do you ride it with out bar tape ? I like Answers 20/20 enduro bar, Carver just came out with a altbar with 29* layback in carbon for a lot less $ than Answers bar. Happy trails


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

tehan said:


> All chains will work fine.
> What Nomit showed is in my opinion out of spec chain (most likely from new). I am not sure if it is only his particular piece or entire model, but this is something beyond my control.
> 
> All 8,9,10,11 speed chains and 1/8 chains which we tried fit perfectly well. That is Shimano, Sram, KMC in numerous models.


do me a favor, since you're so sure about this.....

buy a brand new connex wippermann 7r8 and post the results of it working.

here's a link...
http://www.amazon.com/Connex-7R8-Ch...words=connex+wipperman+7r8&pebp=1418577571776

if you post a picture of that new chain fitting perfectly. i'll be the one to foot the bill for the chain.

(this offer stands to anyone who owns an absolute black oval ring and thinks i'm stupid/crazy and that the chain is stretched)


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

for the record i did put a new KMC 3/32 Z chain on, with success, as expected.

first 1/2 mile was certainly a unique feeling. like there's a little turboboost at the top/bottom of every pedal stroke. next couple miles felt smooth, like a really natural round pedal stroke.....same feeling i have when i really concentrate on 'pedaling circles' on the trainer. after that it started feeling pretty much normal/natural....but certainly on the smooth side as well. makes it rare to have those almost stalling choppy pedal strokes when grinding out a climb standing up.

not sure how it compares speed wise. chain length is pretty much identical to a round 34. so will be interesting to swap out from day to day on a standard loop to see if there's any substantial difference.

aside from my preferred chain model not working with it, and a slow order-to-door time....i like it and will definitely continue to use.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nomit said:


> for the record i did put a new KMC 3/32 Z chain on, with success, as expected.
> 
> first 1/2 mile was certainly a unique feeling. like there's a little turboboost at the top/bottom of every pedal stroke. next couple miles felt smooth, like a really natural round pedal stroke.....same feeling i have when i really concentrate on 'pedaling circles' on the trainer. after that it started feeling pretty much normal/natural....but certainly on the smooth side as well. makes it rare to have those almost stalling choppy pedal strokes when grinding out a climb standing up.
> 
> ...


Thanks Nomit for the comments and sorry for all that hassle with the chain. 
The more you will use the oval the more you will like it. Good exercise is to run oval ring for minimum 6 weeks and then swap for a day to your old round ring. Then you will really feel how big of a difference it makes. But make sure you will put min 4 weeks on oval first so your muscles have time to fully adapt to a bit different power distribution.

We are a bit slow with the orders at the minute due to popularity of this model(and stock shortages) and fact that it's almost Christmas for the post offices, so it's not speedy delivery at the moment. Usually you would get it in about 3-5 days, now it's more like 12-15.
It will vastly improve after New Year as we are making them now 24/7.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nomit said:


> do me a favor, since you're so sure about this.....
> 
> buy a brand new connex wippermann 7r8 and post the results of it working.
> 
> ...


I was maybe a bit too quick saying chain is stretched. It may be as well that you got new one out of spec already so it would not fit to our chainrings. It fit the other one you had because regular chainrings have much wider tolerances so they can accept some chain discrepancy. Out of spec chain is not that common, but it happens like with everything else.

I have a short piece(10 links) of new Wippermann Connex 10SB at hand and it fits perfectly well. Rest of the chain is used by my friend on the bike and there is no trouble. It is not though same model as you had.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

DJSS said:


> Nice bike, drop it like it's hot bars cool. Do you ride it with out bar tape ?


Thanks! Normally I have bar tape. I'm changing the bar angle, and I don't want to wrap it before I'm sure I like the new setup.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks for keeping up with the thread!

Did you end up running the ring in the standard position? I hope you say 'yes' since I agree 100% with your experiences


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

Yes, I installed it precisely per manufacturer instructions. If I do something else and post about it, I'll make sure to be clear about the changes.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

Thanks!


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

My SRAM GXP direct mount oval ring finally arrived. Sat in customs for 3 weeks. It's on the bike now, so hopefully the weather will get a little nicer so I can get a few rides on it and my 32t round ring to compare.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

For those who wonder how the chain tension looks like on SS bike here is a small example.






As you can see it is correctly tensioned on the biggest radius and slightly slack on min radius. This is absolutely fine. Chain will never drop and you get less chain wear as it is not stretched to maximum all the time.


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

What hub is that in the video?


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## kgraham11 (Jan 29, 2005)

fixgeardan said:


> What hub is that in the video?


Sounds like a Chris King. Angry bees...


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

I reckon hope 40t?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

it's a hub with too many POE. i'd go postal if i rode with someone who had that hub, at that point you should just fork out the $$$ for a stealth hub. spyghost what are you asking?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This is Chris King hub on one of our friends bike.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

*Alternative*







I wanted a 28 tooth direct mount oval ring and found one from B Labs which used to be Bionicon. It was a little more expensive than the Absolute black but it's on my bike right now. There wasn't much information on if it's clocked the same but it feels fine and isn't my first oval ring.
Here's a link to more information:
B-Labs OVAL chainring
I emailed the US contact and had the chainring in under a week! Not affiliated blah blah.
View attachment 949163


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I never even thought of that, interesting since all my bikes are single speed currently.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

just found a video of one of our customer.
XX1 drivetrain and oval sram spiderless chainring. So you can see how it looks like while pedaling.






Btw, more sizes like 28,30, 34 will be available in late January. RF Cinch version as well.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

artnshel said:


> I wanted a 28 tooth direct mount oval ring and found one from B Labs which used to be Bionicon. It was a little more expensive than the Absolute black but it's on my bike right now. There wasn't much information on if it's clocked the same but it feels fine and isn't my first oval ring.
> Here's a link to more information:
> B-Labs OVAL chainring
> I emailed the US contact and had the chainring in under a week! Not affiliated blah blah.
> View attachment 949163


Gah! Where were you a month+ ago?! 

Would have preferred a 30t instead of 32t.

Coincidentally (?) I finally received my AB ring today. And since it's snowing and sloppy, I have a day or two to consider whether I want to install it or get the B-Labs 30t version...


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> Btw, more sizes like 28,30, 34 will be available in late January. RF Cinch version as well.


Tehan, what cranks will use the 28/30 rings?


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

tehan said:


> Btw, more sizes like 28,30, 34 will be available in late January. RF Cinch version as well.


Awesome, I'm thinking I want to replace the 30t on my full sus bike and the 28 (paired with 1x10) might be perfect for some of the epics I have planned for summer!


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

I'm not sure what they have in stock in the US right now. I will say I don't believe the argument that ovality feels like dropping 2 teeth so get the tooth count you want.


mikesee said:


> Gah! Where were you a month+ ago?!
> 
> Would have preferred a 30t instead of 32t.
> 
> Coincidentally (?) I finally received my AB ring today. And since it's snowing and sloppy, I have a day or two to consider whether I want to install it or get the B-Labs 30t version...


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## Affe (Dec 4, 2007)

So is this a thing for rigids and mainly SS freaks or are people with longer travel "enduro" bikes also reporting benefits?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

You use different product to ours, so maybe there is no such feeling.
With my rings you can defiantly feel the difference that 32T oval does not feel like 32T round, but bit easier.
Like I wrote before many times, shape and clocking of the oval ring is absolutely crucial. Oval from X and Oval from Y brand just share same name - nothing else, as every brand does the shape, ovality and clocking differently. So there is no direct comparison in the feel.
so again oval ≠ oval. 

To put it another words ask two people to draw you a triangle on paper. Will they be exactly the same?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

spyghost said:


> Tehan, what cranks will use the 28/30 rings?


28T oval will be for 64BCD crank users (this gives 26/30 equivalent). So If you have a 104bcd tabs you surely have 64 as well.
This will be great for big hills and 29ers. Chainline is optimized towards the granny gears on this size.

There is no physical way to make 30T oval for 104/64BCD so Shimano users will have to use either 28T or 32T oval.

30T oval will be only done in spiderless version for Sram and RF.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Affe said:


> So is this a thing for rigids and mainly SS freaks or are people with longer travel "enduro" bikes also reporting benefits?


If you read few pages back you will see reports from people with geared bikes as well. It gives benefit to every single bike configuration. Fork travel or frame size does not matter here Principles are exactly same - you get smoother ride with an oval and easier to climb.


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

I've just started using a Doval again after a brief trial of one, then back to my other ring that is a smooth oval. The pattern of the Doval is really nice - it's set up with the max radius within a tooth-position of the other ring relative to the crank, on the same bike, but the dead spot passes even easier and the 'ramp up' to max radius is different although I'm not sure I notice a different feel. Certainly feels good overall, same at low revs but easier over the vertical dead spot, perhaps easier to spin? Thinking it through, the start to end of a pedal stroke isn't a smooth wave so perhaps there's something in the pattern Doval use. 
Anyway, i'm not convinced there's an optimum ovality, perhaps that 10-15% range is ideal but the body adapts to round or much more oval. I rode some crazy rings recently, maybe 50% oval, I'm not sure. No way they'd fit a SS, but felt great at low revs in the mud.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

as far as I can see Doval brand pushed their designs to Single oval shape in mtb rings recently. So they are not dual ovals anymore like advertised. Dual oval shape looks like "squared" chainring.
Only their road rings are dual oval now.

Trouble with dual oval is that you feel pedaling is less smooth than with single oval. Dual ovals would still give you the benefit of better traction, but will not give you a really smooth pedaling sensation people look for (as on single oval). Hence single oval shape is still a better choice. 
Smoothness in pedaling comes from precisely calculated oval. Any variations to this shape will cause more rapid accelerations/decelerations of your leg. This is when you feel that ring is not smooth anymore.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

Doval is still a dual oval design. I'm not sure where you are getting your information. I recently tested the Absolute Black ring against two of the Doval rings. The Doval rings are definitely a better shape in my opinion. They spin smoother and better take advantage of the biomechanical theory of the non-round ring designs. The Absolute Black is phased incorrectly. The power stroke peaks at about 3:30 (21 degrees), even earlier than the QRing. The Doval shape peaks later in the stroke closer to full extension to take advantage of the power in your legs as you approach full extension. The dead spot is also sooner, hence the asymmetric design of the "dual oval". Major axis to minor axis occurs in 5 teeth vs 9 teeth for the simple oval on a 34t ring. That's a huge advantage. Power stroke is later and dead spot is closer to top dead center.

I did a complete write up in the Drivetrain thread: 
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/oval-vs-asymmetric-rings-936577.html


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

As more and more of these non-round rings hit the market, it will be key for the consumer to understand the differences in the shape and phasing of the rings. Not all non-round rings are created equal nor will accomplish the same thing. Some will be geared toward making the ring feel more round so the rider won't be taken aback at first. The problem with this is that this is definitely a compromise. This was Rotors approach when they introduced their rings. Sub optimal, but palatable to the average new user. Osymetric took a pure approach. Proper design without compromise. A shape very similar in concept to the Doval.

The buyer should ask about ovality, shape, and phasing. Just because it's "oval" doesn't make it better. Remember Biopace...


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

The movements of each individual varies widely. A particular curve may work for a pair of legs but may not be optimal for another. 

There will always be a compromise from a market point of view.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> 28T oval will be for 64BCD crank users (this gives 26/30 equivalent). So If you have a 104bcd tabs you surely have 64 as well.
> This will be great for big hills and 29ers. Chainline is optimized towards the granny gears on this size.


Suggestion, if i may... Try giving the 64 BCD mount an offset outboard 64 BCD has a smallish 'diameter' anyway so moving it outboard shouldn't be a problem.

Reason here is to meet a better CL rather than focusing on the bigger cogs.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

nm.


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## Yuval11 (Sep 3, 2014)

Hi
I am ridding unit 2014 until last weeks with chainring 32 and cog 19.
Last week I change to oval chainring Doval 34T 16% SNW and cog 20.
I have ride with same group and same region and feel faster in climbing,
and padelling are more round ( may be wrong translation to english).


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## Forcemajeure (Aug 30, 2014)

as for me I'm using osymetric 34T bcd 104, not really sure if it made some changes but based on my strava outputs, readings, data etc... I made a couple of new records on the same route, so I guess non circular chain ring helps...


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

I just looked at that Osymetric SS ring. It's not shaped like their other rings for some reason. It looks more like a rounded off oval with phasing at 3:00. Definitely not optimal. 

The problem with Doval is that they can't make up their mind on ring shape and design. So you just don't know what you're getting. You can see from their offerings on ebay that they're basically in beta testing and selling the test versions. Not yet ready for prime time. 

They also have a new mount design for the XX1 that looks aweful. Skinny little bolts with a keeper on the outboard side. They obviously don't understand the physics involved in the chainring mount. They now have all 4 bolts in tension. That ring is definitely going to move around.


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

tehan said:


> Trouble with dual oval is that you feel pedaling is less smooth than with single oval. Dual ovals would still give you the benefit of better traction, but will not give you a really smooth pedaling sensation people look for (as on single oval). Hence single oval shape is still a better choice.
> Smoothness in pedaling comes from precisely calculated oval. Any variations to this shape will cause more rapid accelerations/decelerations of your leg. This is when you feel that ring is not smooth anymore.


All this is intended as a counter-point, not to say you're wrong in anyway. The Doval 34T SS ring shape feels pretty good to me, I wouldn't say it's less smooth in feel, if anything I'd take a punt on it being a little more natural in feel and possibly more effective as the dead spot seems to pass faster, but that's pure speculation based on perceptions. With a near-oval the 'rise' and the 'fall' of the ratio through the pedal stroke isn't mirrored and our leg force through the stroke doesn't seem rise and fall evenly like a wave-form graph either. But I've not got output data etc to go on, just theorising out of interest. 
I'm really not convinced you need a 'smooth oval' and if any one rider's natural pedal motion was studied and a custom ring made, it could be a standard oval but it'd be as likely to be irregular. We're all different in how we pedal anyway. Also seems that you get used to the minor differences and the change-over is when any differences are noted, after 5-10hrs riding it's become normal. ie, the differences are really subtle and maybe subjective.

This pedal and ring combo felt suprisingly smooth to me in many situations -






- it's regular but it's massively variable compared to the current oval rings we're discussing for SS / 1x use.


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## blizzardpapa (Jan 19, 2004)

I am looking to do a 1x drive train and have been trying to figure out what size of chain ring to use. After reading this thread, I may found the answer a 30t may be the answer that I am looking for


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

michael9218 said:


> The problem with Doval is that they can't make up their mind on ring shape and design. So you just don't know what you're getting. You can see from their offerings on ebay that they're basically in beta testing and selling the test versions. Not yet ready for prime time.


Maybe thats why they are selling them on eBay for 99 cents?

I bought one...it came out to under $13 shipped. I'll see how that goes.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Dang, I just paid $20.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

lol james i think you need to adjust your b screw in that pic


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## Hikers Only (Oct 18, 2010)

Just received these in the mail! Thanks Marcin! Took it out for its first ride today on my Niner ROS9. It crazy it felt so natural after just a few pedal stokes. I also love the feel of the extra power when accelerating out of corners! I have one mounted up to my Niner RIP9 RDO as well

I highly recommend you try one out! If you purchase through the AB website Sram OVAL GXP Type MarinCA in the notes section and receive a 50% rebate on your shipping costs 


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

fishwrinkle said:


> lol james i think you need to adjust your b screw in that pic


Neither my bike nor a rear mech on it : )


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## kgraham11 (Jan 29, 2005)

fishwrinkle said:


> it's a hub with too many POE. i'd go postal if i rode with someone who had that hub, at that point you should just fork out the $$$ for a stealth hub. spyghost what are you asking?


It's a good motivator when you're behind someone in a race...


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

kgraham11 said:


> It's a good motivator when you're behind someone in a race...


 I ride a Profile Elite or Mini, a lot like a Chris King. The advantage of more engagement and way better machining along with strength is worth the buzz. I would explode a Ghost or Shimano quickly, I exploded a Hope with not too much effort while riding on my Freeride bike on the trails, the cassette just can't handle the load that I put on it.


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## simplydraven (Dec 1, 2014)

I am looking for an oval ring for my singlespeed setup. It will need to be 104BCD and preferably 32t. I am trying to decide if I should order the B|Labs Oval Ring (B-Labs OVAL chainring) or purchase the Absolute Black oval ring and wait forever to receive it. Can anyone offer up pros or cons of one vs the other?


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I think you are referring to the Absolute Black. There are people that have been liking the Doval dual oval chainring as well.


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## simplydraven (Dec 1, 2014)

Yes. The Absolute Black vs the B|Labs oval rings. Pros vs. cons of one vs. the other. 

I am a little standoffish towards the doval rings because they seem so inconsistent in their design concept. Seems as though they are just throwing ideas out and seeing what sticks. Letting paying customers be the beta testers/R&D dept.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

simplydraven said:


> I am looking for an oval ring for my singlespeed setup. It will need to be 104BCD and preferably 32t. I am trying to decide if I should order the B|Labs Oval Ring (B-Labs OVAL chainring) or purchase the Absolute Black oval ring and wait forever to receive it. Can anyone offer up pros or cons of one vs the other?


I never heard of B Labs but it's nice that they have a 28T direct mount oval. 
They don't describe the orientation of the oval on their web site.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

1SPD said:


> Beautiful rings, great science/technology, what sucks is that there isn't one made for a 102 bcd XTR M960 rank! Just ridiculous! Or how about a 64mm 4 bolt 24t (XTR M960) so I can run it as a micro drive set up?


+ 1. Would be interested in trying an oval ring if it were available for the 102 bed xtr 960. I'm more a fan of standards after owning this crank. It makes a sexy SS crank though!


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

simplydraven said:


> I am a little standoffish towards the doval rings because they seem so inconsistent in their design concept. Seems as though they are just throwing ideas out and seeing what sticks. Letting paying customers be the beta testers/R&D dept.


From what I've seen of the 3 I have and their site/ebay, the method for position adjustment changes and the styling is pretty random but the ovality is either 13 or 16% and the actual shape is consistent.
The Doval 34T SS I have may be my favourite oval ring so far.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

michael9218 said:


> Doval is still a dual oval design. I'm not sure where you are getting your information. I recently tested the Absolute Black ring against two of the Doval rings. The Doval rings are definitely a better shape in my opinion. They spin smoother and better take advantage of the biomechanical theory of the non-round ring designs. The Absolute Black is phased incorrectly. The power stroke peaks at about 3:30 (21 degrees), even earlier than the QRing. The Doval shape peaks later in the stroke closer to full extension to take advantage of the power in your legs as you approach full extension. The dead spot is also sooner, hence the asymmetric design of the "dual oval". Major axis to minor axis occurs in 5 teeth vs 9 teeth for the simple oval on a 34t ring. That's a huge advantage. Power stroke is later and dead spot is closer to top dead center.
> 
> I did a complete write up in the Drivetrain thread:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/oval-vs-asymmetric-rings-936577.html


No it's not by looking at what they sell now on ebay (their only place of selling as far as I know). All you can see is single oval shape in mtb rings from the offering. Your own Doval rings look to me as single oval as well (but it's hard to say for sure as there is chain on and chainring is not fully visible). Dual oval looks much more square like.

Michael, our phasing of the oval is exactly correct. It is your preference in minority.
Even Rotor in their patents or other articles mention that only about 3% of people will like the phasing to be very extreme. Other paid articles point to the same conclusion. Phasing of more than 25deg from horizontal is not acceptable for most users. Only people who rode many years on the ovals of various sorts and usually ride XC only are in favor of more aggressive phasing like 55deg you pointed out in other thread.

BUT this is not what most people will accept and feel comfortable about. Especially people who never tried the ovals before.

Hence we do the clocking of the ring to be most comfortable and give as much benefits as possible. The more you phase it down the more unconformable ride becomes for someone who never ridden the oval. And to be fair such clocking is not necessary as gains are very small compared to our clocking. So best of those two worlds is clocking we choose to use to give best feeling and most of the benefits.

If someone would try to use Doval as his first ring with 55deg clocking he would be soon put off by it as changes are far too drastic compared to a round chainrings. Hence Doval never took off as few other brands with similar clocking.

Same with Osymetric. Their clocking is even more extreme as it goes other way round to -21deg from horizontal. Their shape is also very complex. So while the gains are possibly a bit better than the Rotor one, only very few people can accept it and ride the ring for long time. This is why Osymetric is still a very small company and Rotor is a big one. In fact most people who ride Osymetric while competing, train on single oval or round rings (this has been well documented).

We are creating the ring which can be used every day with great benefits and will not put you off by wired shape or feeling in your legs. You simply do not notice it after first ride. And this is the key for most people who never ridden ovals.

Single oval shape with moderate clocking is the only way for most riders. Especially for people who ride all sorts of trail, enduro, SS etc. Only people who race competitively AND used ovals for many years will lean towards more aggressive clocking (But we are speaking here of less than 1% of the the people who ride mtb). On top of that more aggressive clocking (like you proposed) requires changes to your position on the bike to get these extra benefits. So unless you attend many professional fitting sessions to measure the changes over several weeks, you will not gain much from more aggressive clocking and same rider position as before.

In my eyes also adjustable clocking is a big no for most. As many, do not set it up correctly and are not happy with results. Hence a fixed phasing of the ring is a safest and most reliable option. In addition you don't have problems adjustable systems suffer from.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Tehan,

I've been using one now for a month on my SS; It's my first oval ring. I was using a 34t round with 20t rear, and went with the 34t oval. I didn't feel any difference from the first pedal stroke. At first I thought, there may be no benefit from it, but I think I'm going longer with more power. I'm just a GPS user to track miles and average speed, but have PR'd some segments with your ring. The only complaint I have, is that it is a little harder to climb with the 34 oval compared to my 34 round. So I've ordered the 32 oval from you and hoping it doesn't hurt my non climbing speed and helps me get back to climbing a easily as the 34 round. You do make a nice product!

Cheers!


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

Wow, I was going to comment pretty much exactly the way mtbpilot did except for the going longer and more power. I agree the product is very nice in appearance and construction is top notch….2 thumbs up for that.:thumbsup::thumbsup:

I have been on the AB oval for over 4 weeks and can’t get past that the oval feels harder to pedal and in return my climbing has suffered. (I have been riding SS for over 20 years, so I have some climbing miles under my belt) It’s almost that even on the flats I’m using more effort to turn the pedals over. 

I can see the oval as possibly a training tool, but I can’t see me using it day to day. With that said, I’m going back to a round 34 tooth ring.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MTB Pilot said:


> The only complaint I have, is that it is a little harder to climb with the 34 oval compared to my 34 round.


Yep. At the peak of the power stroke, it's 36t equivalent.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

If your climbing was hurt because switching from 34t round to 34t oval, it might be that your pedaling has a lot of focus on the downstroke. You guys probably have enough experience and feel to various spinning techniques that you could vary it a bit to see if it gets better? 

Because the peak "equivalent ratio" is 36t, I sort of ease the stroke there. If you're climbing at the same speed at before, the crank should move a bit slower at that point. If you push harder, you'll go faster (which of course feels harder) or you increase static tension, which is a bit like pushing a brick wall: exhausting, but doesn't get you anywhere.

On the flipside, it's important to increase angular speed of the cranks at the dead spots to keep you going steady. During the first few strokes I noticed that it's easy to fall behind the crank at the dead spots when the crank moves faster. If I didn't make a conscious effort to speed up at the dead spots, I'd practically be coasting through them, which leaves more work to be done at the downstroke - not good.

I'm sure it's a matter of technique and adaptation to make your climbing easier on the oval 34t than it was with a round 34t. Maybe it doesn't come as easily to all, but it should be possible for pretty much anyone.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

DubzOxford said:


> Wow, I was going to comment pretty much exactly the way mtbpilot did except for the going longer and more power. I agree the product is very nice in appearance and construction is top notch&#8230;.2 thumbs up for that.:thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> I have been on the AB oval for over 4 weeks and can't get past that the oval feels harder to pedal and in return my climbing has suffered. (I have been riding SS for over 20 years, so I have some climbing miles under my belt) It's almost that even on the flats I'm using more effort to turn the pedals over.
> 
> I can see the oval as possibly a training tool, but I can't see me using it day to day. With that said, I'm going back to a round 34 tooth ring.


This looks to me that you stretched yourself and bought to big of a ring. 34T round looks like it was max of your abilities. So with 34T oval your max point was 36T. In general it should be as easy as 34T round if you could push that over with reasonable rpms.

I would definitely try on your place 32T oval then and it will improve your pedaling by miles. Write me an email so I will sort you out somehow to get you going on 32T. You simply picked too big of a ring for yourself. 
Or simply put bigger cog on the back by 1-2 teeth and you will get same effect.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

it sounds like you need 32T ring then for sure. Then your rpms will increase a bit and you will actually go faster.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I think that some of you picked just bit too big of a ring for yourself.
Almost everyone will choose same oval ring size as your current round ring which is good, but there are some exceptions.

In general if you ride a 34T round currently and your cadence is already on low side(below 50-60rpm most of the time) and you feel it is max of your abilities - go with 32T oval. There is no need to cheat yourself. With 32T you will increase cadence slightly and you will be faster for sure with easier pedaling - and this is a main goal.

If you feel that 34T round is fairly easy to push for you and you can pedal with relatively normal cadence most of the time (60-90rpm) then go with 34T oval.


So if your current round ring feel a bit hard for you (or on the border of being hard) - choose a smaller size of the oval chainring. It will help tremendously.

This is valid especially for SS. Every SS person should try at least few cogs to find sweet spot. This is valid with both round and oval chainrings. There is no such thing as one gear ratio for everyone. 
So I urge you to experiment. Cheapest to do is with cogs. If current setup feel a bit hard go with bigger cog on the back and see what happens.


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## DubzOxford (Nov 9, 2012)

I appreciate the offer and the feedback. I don’t understand the benefit of going to a 32 tooth oval to make if feel like a 34 round to only lose speed from an easier gear ratio. Not trying to be a smart a$$, but the reason I go with a 34 tooth is to keep a decent avg mph on the dirt roads. If I go with a 32 oval, the feeling of a 34 tooth will be there, but I will be losing out in the long run with the smaller chainring. Correct me if I’m wrong.

I want to make sure everyone understands that I'm not bashing on AB or their product, I think it is a great idea. I just don't know if it is the right product for me, or the type of riding I do.

It sounds like if I go up a gear in the back, it will put me back in the game. I might give it a try come spring time.

Cheers


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

32T oval will have a speed of 34T round, so you will not loose the speed. 34T oval has a speed of almost 36T round ring. 
So my guess is that you already had low rpms riding round 34T in current setup, so with oval 34T it is harder for you.

If you move 1 tooth up on the rear cog in your case. This will up your rpms and it will be easier to pedal. So you need to experiment a bit with rear cog like you did when you got your bike with round ring.


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## Wiewior (Aug 15, 2008)

HI Marcin, where can I buy these in Poland? 

pozdrawiam, Wojtek


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

*34T 104 BCD for sale - paid spam*

I have a new AB OVAL XX1 style, 104 BCD ring for sale in beautious Green.
Never been mounted, brand new.

These are currently sold out...get it here.

I paid $75 shipped. Asking $80 shipped to lower 48 .

I have the 32T oval on one bike and making room for a direct mount Next SL version for the SS race rig.

paid spam: Oval ring. Absolute Black 104 BCD 34t narrow wide - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

For anyone finding they can't go up a couple of ring teeth with an oval, maybe it's worth trying a ring that peaks later, around 45 degrees. This seems to work well for out of saddle SS climbing. Everyone I hear of with an oval ring of that orientation goes up 2T on the front w/o issue for the same gear feel. My 34 was a swap for a 32. 
I'm not saying either is better, or either one is wrong, just that it's worth trying.


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

Honestly, after riding my 34T AB ring for about 1000 miles on varied terrain, I'm finding that compared to a round 32T, I add 1 tooth in back for similar "effort". What I found if I didn't do that, is that on any techy steep section, I really "feel" that equivalent 36T diameter during the power stroke. Initially, I really felt it, and it seems as time goes on, I feel that extra resistance is less (perhaps due to additional strength?).


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

james-o said:


> For anyone finding they can't go up a couple of ring teeth with an oval, maybe it's worth trying a ring that peaks later, around 45 degrees. This seems to work well for out of saddle SS climbing. Everyone I hear of with an oval ring of that orientation goes up 2T on the front w/o issue for the same gear feel. My 34 was a swap for a 32.
> I'm not saying either is better, or either one is wrong, just that it's worth trying.


Find one that peaks later yet still provides the deadspot at the top of the stroke.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

The top of the stroke is the dead spot in any case...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Raybum said:


> Honestly, after riding my 34T AB ring for about 1000 miles on varied terrain, I'm finding that compared to a round 32T, I add 1 tooth in back for similar "effort". What I found if I didn't do that, is that on any techy steep section, I really "feel" that equivalent 36T diameter during the power stroke. Initially, I really felt it, and it seems as time goes on, I feel that extra resistance is less (perhaps due to additional strength?).


It seems that you rode before 32T round (from your post )and then picked 34T oval. You would be much better of getting 32T oval and then you would feel better with no need to change rear cogs.

Guys I know that 34T is cheaper due to thinner material (32T needs twice as thick material for integrated spacers and thread). But if you were riding 32T round before do not go into 34T oval unless that 32T round was quite easy for you to start with.

I will write that again.
If you used 30 or 32T round go with 32T oval
if you used 32/33/34 round (and feel that 32T round is on easy side for you to pedal in your local area) pick 34T oval.


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## Magua (Oct 31, 2014)

tehan...what sort of wait is there if I were to order a GXP direct mount oval ring from you shipping to the U.S.?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Magua said:


> tehan...what sort of wait is there if I were to order a GXP direct mount oval ring from you shipping to the U.S.?


We got some good stock at the minute so we are sending all older orders and new ones now. 
If you place order today we will send it by Saturday. You will get it within 4-7days dependent where you are in US exactly. It gets to NY first and then goes by domestic USPS.


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## Magua (Oct 31, 2014)

tehan said:


> We got some good stock at the minute so we are sending all older orders and new ones now.
> If you place order today we will send it by Saturday. You will get it within 4-7days dependent where you are in US exactly. It gets to NY first and then goes by domestic USPS.


Great&#8230;thank you! I actually ended up going with your regular round ring plus your bash ring. I like my chain line better being able to mount a ring in the 64 BCD holes&#8230;plus your bash ring looks cool too!


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

tehan said:


> It seems that you rode before 32T round (from your post )and then picked 34T oval. You would be much better of getting 32T oval and then you would feel better with no need to change rear cogs.
> 
> Guys I know that 34T is cheaper due to thinner material (32T needs twice as thick material for integrated spacers and thread). But if you were riding 32T round before do not go into 34T oval unless that 32T round was quite easy for you to start with.
> 
> ...


Honestly, changing the rear cog a tooth lower wasn't a big deal since I have cogs from 18 to 23. Matter of fact, the bigger reason I went with the 34 was that the spacers on the 32 would have moved my chainline inward and given me interference with the chainstay when the EBB was rotated back.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We will have in 4 weeks 28T 64bcd ovals as well in the offer. So you will have a chance to try it as well once your current ring wears out.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> We will have in 4 weeks 28T 64bcd ovals as well in the offer. So you will have a chance to try it as well once your current ring wears out.


Does this imply that the chainline will be more inboard? Or is the ring offsetted somehow outboard to get to somewhere near 50mm?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ring has 2mm recesses so it goes 2mm over the crank tabs. in 2X crank chainline is about 45-46mm. 
We already have on offer such round rings from long time. There are many people who desire such chainline to optimize the bike for granny gears mostly. It still works well with smaller cogs on the back. But to be fair if someone is going after 26/28T ring up front he is not going to use last 3 smallest cogs on the back often.
This comes back to my ongoing mantra - pick the right size of the ring up front to ride most of the time with middle cogs in cassette.
Sorry forgot it is SS forum. With singlespeed I would not go smaller than 32T oval up front. As you know in SS the smaller cogs/rings you have the more wear you get.


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## Magua (Oct 31, 2014)

tehan said:


> We already have on offer such round rings from long time. There are many people who desire such chainline to optimize the bike for granny gears mostly. It still works well with smaller cogs on the back. But to be fair if someone is going after 26/28T ring up front he is not going to use last 3 smallest cogs on the back often.
> This comes back to my ongoing mantra - pick the right size of the ring up front to ride most of the time with middle cogs in cassette.


For me, I wanted to keep my 2X crankset so I can run an inner ring plus a bash ring. The inner ring chainline on my particular bike lines up directly in the center of my 10 speed cassette (#5 and #6 cogs) which is why I'm stoked to hear you will be making a 64 BCD oval. A 28t ring with an 11-36 cassette puts me exactly in the range of gearing that I use on my 3x10 XC bike. Sorry...I know this is a SS forum, but this is the most in depth discussion on oval rings.

That's great news that you will have 28t ovals in 64 BCD...I will definitely give one of those a shot when you get them in.


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## shankes3 (Dec 30, 2011)

Sorry if this has been answered already. I need to run a 10/11 speed chain with this ring, will that size chain work with my White Industries freewheel?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

shankes3 said:


> Sorry if this has been answered already. I need to run a 10/11 speed chain with this ring, will that size chain work with my White Industries freewheel?


9-10-11 speed chains, no problem.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

tehan said:


> This looks to me that you stretched yourself and bought to big of a ring. 34T round looks like it was max of your abilities. So with 34T oval your max point was 36T. In general it should be as easy as 34T round if you could push that over with reasonable rpms.
> 
> I would definitely try on your place 32T oval then and it will improve your pedaling by miles. Write me an email so I will sort you out somehow to get you going on 32T. You simply picked too big of a ring for yourself.
> Or simply put bigger cog on the back by 1-2 teeth and you will get same effect.


Hi, I just ordered two 32t and meant to get the Sram direct mount version in 30t, now that I understand 30=32t. I wrote you a PM on here and a regular email identifying who, when and what I ordered so that I could change my order to the 30t. No response yet addressing the request to change one of the rings in my order; What's the deal?


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## james-o (Nov 8, 2010)

michael9218 said:


> Find one that peaks later yet still provides the deadspot at the top of the stroke.


Not sure of your meaning there, sorry.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

this chainrnig can accept virtually any chan excep half links. Everything else like 1/8", 1/3/5/6/7/8/910/11 spd chains work.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I tried my 34t oval ring FIXED. Worked beautifully, changes in crank angular speed are so gradual that I don't notice it. I can only tell the difference in effort required to turn the cranks: getting over the dead spots is easier and mashing down takes more pushing. Just like it should.










(c) Esko Lius


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## traceleches (Jan 14, 2015)

In 2014 I raced on a Trek Superfly Singlespeed as a USA Cycling Cat 1 for most of the races and at the end of the summer I somehow ended up in a few Pro races. At first when I read about these rings I was thinking "Ok...how big of a difference could it really make? It's just a chainring." And then I bought one. Threw it on my SRAM XO crank and pedaled away. 

At first there wasn't a HUGE difference, but I could tell it was there. After about 2 months of riding it everywhere from Southern Utah (St. George and Moab), to hardpacked snow single track in Park City I can definitely say I am SOLD on these rings. Your pedal stroke really does feel rounder which seems backwards to me but it does. My favorite thing about them is that my traction on out of the saddle climbs (everywhere for me, my trails are straight up and straight down) was unbelievable...the rear wheel seems to ground itself to the trail much more. Especially when I'm tired. I can maintain traction without sliding out when I'm on really steep stuff. Single speed is all about keeping momentum up, right? This does the job and makes up for my lazy riding style! 

Love it, I'll definitely be buying more!


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Saul Lumikko said:


> I tried my 34t oval ring FIXED.


Saul, were you also running a 34t non-oval ring before?

I'm trying to figure out if I should stick with my current tooth-count (32t) or bump up to 34t. My main worry is that I don't want it to feel super spinny on flats.


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## traceleches (Jan 14, 2015)

Saul, were you also running a 34t non-oval ring before?

I'm trying to figure out if I should stick with my current tooth-count (32t) or bump up to 34t. My main worry is that I don't want it to feel super spinny on flats.

I feel like getting this oval ring is like getting the speed of one tooth harder in the rear without all the effort of one harder gear. One thing I noticed immediately is that I could maintain a much higher speed on flats with this ring (and a 20t cog in the rear) but climbing was easy enough with the ovalization that I feel like I could actually bump down to one harder cog in the rear(19t) and maintain the same effort as my 32t round ring and a 20t cog but with a much higher speed and better traction...


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ thanks for the info. That's a good description, and it sounds like what I'm looking for.


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## mattbyke (Jan 14, 2015)

Ok. I've been looking here a while. I run a SS . 30/23 . It's super technical here. Short steep hills. Endless rocks and roots. Some trails need a 26/23. No flat. No real down hill. 
I'd be interested in the 30/28 oval. My only concern is , and I don't believe this question has been asked. What about ratchet pedal strokes. We do an awful lot of that here. Along with prolonged standing. Will the oval not be a "felt" part of the pedal stroke.? The riding here is close to trials level at times on all the rides.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I rode at a spot where there is short and rocky techy climbs and had to "ratchet" my pedaling. I couldn't feel much of a difference when at a slow cadence.

The difference the oval ring made for me was when you hit spots where you have to maintain a high cadence to get through. The oval ring smoothed out my pedaling in that aspect.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

mattbyke said:


> Ok. I've been looking here a while. I run a SS . 30/23 . It's super technical here. Short steep hills. Endless rocks and roots. Some trails need a 26/23. No flat. No real down hill.
> I'd be interested in the 30/28 oval. My only concern is , and I don't believe this question has been asked. What about ratchet pedal strokes. We do an awful lot of that here. Along with prolonged standing. Will the oval not be a "felt" part of the pedal stroke.? The riding here is close to trials level at times on all the rides.


It will surely not be worse than your current round ring. It can only be better.
When you ratchet you do it usually from 2 oclock to 4-5 oclock and back to 2 again. 
So it will help as on 2 oclock radius is much smaller than on 3 and 4. You start that ratchet movement easier and finish harder where you already have your cranks level when standing.


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## mattbyke (Jan 14, 2015)

I like the idea. Will there be a 30 tooth ring?


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

newfangled said:


> Saul, were you also running a 34t non-oval ring before?
> 
> I'm trying to figure out if I should stick with my current tooth-count (32t) or bump up to 34t. My main worry is that I don't want it to feel super spinny on flats.


Yes, I've kept a 34 chainring for a long time. Round, then oval SS, now oval fixed.

For any given speed the revolution of the cranks is exactly the same with round and oval rings. The angular speed of the cranks vary during a full circle, but you still make one full circle with either. The cadence is the same.

As Traceleches said, it may allow you to deduct one tooth in the rear and still climb like you used to. My go-to gearing on a 29er has been 34/20 for a long time, but I'm running 34/19 (SS) now. For fixed riding I use an 18 tooth cog but that's the same as before.

None of my findings are scientific, just observations riding the bike. There is a possibility of placebo and bias, but I'm not a paid racer so it doesn't matter. I ride (and sometimes race) for my own enjoyment.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

there will be 30T in spiderless version. (5-6weeks)

Btw,
We have managed to lower the postage cost for US guys, so you now pay only 8$ instead of 16$. That should give you one more reason to try one


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Finally giving in to making the 30T?


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

RS VR6 said:


> Finally giving in to making the 30T?


What is the point of this post? He just said they'll be available in 5-6 weeks.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

rhetorical question

a question to which no answer is required: used esp for dramatic effect. An example is Who knows?

A question posed without expectation of an answer but merely as a way of making a point: “You don't expect me to go along with that crazy scheme, do you?”

A question asked without expecting an answer but for the sake of emphasis or effect. The expected answer is usually “yes” or “no.” For example, Can we improve the quality of our work? That's a rhetorical question.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Hi Tehan,

I'm very interested in trying out one of these. Looking for a 34t, which I don't see listed right now.

One question though: Any chance you will be making non-offset (flat) rings for SRAM cranks?


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## Nickos35 (Jan 23, 2015)

Hi, at my age I'll take any advantage over my geared riding buddies!! So i ride a 29er with a 32T front and 16T rear singlespeed which is a 2:1 ratio. For me its perfect. I assume the ratio will change slightly depending on what part of the oval ring you are at on the downstroke?

I've ridden a 32T/ 14T rear which is a harder pedal but do'able up ascents. Could i get away with a 34T oval, it will make the ascent more like pushing a 31-32T right?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

i wouldn't. the 34t ring acts like a 32 in your deadspot, 36t on your down stroke. so the 32t ring will feel like a 34 on your downstroke and 30 in your deadspot. i would go with the 32t. either way there is not a huge difference and you can make fine tuning adjustments at the rear cog if necessary.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I'd go for 34 teeth in front and 17 in the back to retain the same 2:1 ratio, but the drivetrain will be a bit more durable. With larger rings any chain slack issues are reduced - the chain is less likely to skip or come off.


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## erichwic (Mar 3, 2004)

Nickos35 said:


> Hi, at my age I'll take any advantage over my geared riding buddies!! So i ride a 29er with a 32T front and 16T rear singlespeed which is a 2:1 ratio. For me its perfect. I assume the ratio will change slightly depending on what part of the oval ring you are at on the downstroke?
> 
> I've ridden a 32T/ 14T rear which is a harder pedal but do'able up ascents. Could i get away with a 34T oval, it will make the ascent more like pushing a 31-32T right?


You think I'd be able to go from a 32 x 20 round set-up to a 32 (oval) x 19 setup without noticing much difference? Was hoping to push a 19t in the rear to gain a bit more speed. Any thoughts? I ran a 32 x 19t in the past but just got back in the ss riding in the late summer. Any input is appreciated.


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## Chiang Mai (Jan 26, 2015)

My first mountain bike was a Maruishi I bought in California 1987 or 1988. Spent what was a huge chunk of change at the time. Lugged Tange steel frame, Araya anodized rims, full Deore XT group with BIOPACE rings. I actually brought it to Japan when I got a job there. Ended up selling it before I came back. What a waste!


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## Birdss (Apr 13, 2009)

Any word on when a 34t for Single Speed application be available?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

ugh, it already is? just pick size and color


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Birdss said:


> Any word on when a 34t for Single Speed application be available?


Been using mine for 2 months now.


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

just ordered a 34t. can't wait to try it out. 

what chains are all you dudes running? I was looking at the KMC K710SL for the SS since I run the KMC X10SL on my other bike.
Thoughts?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

antikid said:


> just ordered a 34t. Can't wait to try it out.
> 
> What chains are all you dudes running? I was looking at the kmc k710sl for the ss since i run the kmc x10sl on my other bike.
> Thoughts?


sram pc850


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Birdss said:


> Any word on when a 34t for Single Speed application be available?


Are you talking about 104 BCD rings or GXP direct mount? The 104 rings are available now, the direct mount section is only showing 32t right now, no idea when a 34t will be available.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Just on the subject of SS, you can't use narrow-wide rings with a half-link, so maybe that's what the question was about?

I just ordered one anyway, but I certainly wouldn't complain about a normal-toothed oval ring that would give a little more options for chainlength, and could maybe be a little cheaper?


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## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

Question for Tehan, the website updated the shipment date for the Oval 104BCD to Feb 7th from Feb 4th, is that due to a delay in production or has an order been shipped out.

thanks.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

we should have good stock level early next week. We are really working hard to bring more in stock and at the same time add more options.
So for those who wait for ovals - I really appreciate your patience if you wait few days for your order. It's worth the time. 
In the meantime we lowered the postage cost to just 8$ for US/Canada customers.


----------



## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Paid spam:

Brand new 34T AB Oval ring . $70 shipped to lower 48.
Oval ring. Absolute Black 104 BCD 34t narrow wide - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Waiting for the Next SL direct mount version!

thanks


----------



## max_29 (Oct 10, 2007)

tehan said:


> and at the same time add more options.


hope those options include 32/34T 104bcd for 1/8 chain


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

1/8" chains are a step back in technology. Switch to modern chains like everyone else.


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## max_29 (Oct 10, 2007)

Saul Lumikko said:


> 1/8" chains are a step back in technology. Switch to modern chains like everyone else.


really? :yawn:


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## mattbyke (Jan 14, 2015)

Your not snapping every 3/32 chain made. 
There's a good reason to use 1/8 on single speed


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> there will be 30T in spiderless version. (5-6weeks)
> 
> Btw,
> We have managed to lower the postage cost for US guys, so you now pay only 8$ instead of 16$. That should give you one more reason to try one


What's the update on the spiderless 30t?


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

To be fair Saul is right in my opinion. 1/8" chains are the relict of the past. Modern chains can stand more with the use of better materials and treatments. 
Reason people break the 3/32 is a bad chain connection. Mostly it is due to use of a connection pin instead of quick link.
Good 8spd chain with adequate quick link is in my eyes excellent SS setup. In terms of chains, bigger does not necessary means stronger... as it is usually bigger because of cheap materials, so you need to use more of it.


Non the less everyone use what they prefer Our chainrings also accept 1/8 chains as it was already proven in this thread if you go back few pages.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

30 and 34T spiderless in production just now. 28T will be also available soon.
RF cinch oval in anodizing already for the start 32T.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> 30 and 34T spiderless in production just now. 28T will be also available soon.
> RF cinch oval in anodizing already for the start 32T.


Great. Is the 30t spiderless offset? (please not offset)


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

tehan said:


> 30 and 34T spiderless in production just now. 28T will be also available soon.
> RF cinch oval in anodizing already for the start 32T.


I asked this a week or so ago, but will you be making flat oval rings as well? I'm REALLY interested in getting a flat 34t GXP ring.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

yes,yes,yes. We are going to make flat versions of our sram spiderless oval rings.

We do what we can to rush more things but day has only 24h We will have them in about 4-5weeks on website.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

tehan said:


> yes,yes,yes. We are going to make flat versions of our sram spiderless oval rings.
> 
> We do what we can to rush more things but day has only 24h We will have them in about 4-5weeks on website.


Excellent news, Thanks!


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> yes,yes,yes. We are going to make flat versions of our sram spiderless oval rings.
> 
> We do what we can to rush more things but day has only 24h We will have them in about 4-5weeks on website.


so there's both the offset and not offset... nice more choices then...


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## Birdss (Apr 13, 2009)

Well, just ordered a 34t for my SS. 

I've been on a 34t Rotor Ring for the past 2 1/2 years and it needs to be replaced. Rotor is currently out of stock, so I'm giving this one a try.

Updates to follow.


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## Ben_Im (Mar 3, 2012)

SorryBut what do you meaN by flat versions of the ring? Does that mean there is no offset? I just placed an order for a 32t sram spiderless oval, If I'm worried about clearance on my chain stays if I have my eccentric bb set all the way back, should I wait for the flat version?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

you don't have to worry. Flat version is for BB30 short spindle cranks only. Flat version means no offset. normal gxp one has 6mm.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> you don't have to worry. Flat version is for BB30 short spindle cranks only. Flat version means no offset. normal gxp one has 6mm.


So what's the resulting chainline in a normal gxp?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tehan said:


> you don't have to worry. Flat version is for BB30 short spindle cranks only. Flat version means no offset. normal gxp one has 6mm.


Will the Flat version work on the normal GXP crank? I'm asking because my Canfield Yelli Screamy has really tight clearance where currently a 28T Narrow-Wide ring barely fits. If the flat version can be used on the GXP crank then I can potentially try that and get 6mm of extra clearance? I understand that it'll change my chainline


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

Birdss said:


> Well, just ordered a 34t for my SS.
> 
> I've been on a 34t Rotor Ring for the past 2 1/2 years and it needs to be replaced. Rotor is currently out of stock, so I'm giving this one a try.
> 
> Updates to follow.


I did the exact same thing, Rotor to AB Oval on a build that switches between SS and 1x10 throughout the year. It's awesome and I haven't been able to drop the chain once on the 1x10 w/out a guide that I needed for the Rotor ring. You will be happy.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

spyghost said:


> So what's the resulting chainline in a normal gxp?


about 50-50.5mm 
Flat version will have on average chainline of 49-49.5mm as axle is shorter.

Even Sram moved now their spiderless rings to same offset as we have: 6mm for GXP and long bb30 and 0 offset for short bb30 axles.

So nothing to worry about.


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

Got an email yesterday that my 34t was shipped! 
Can't wait to try it out


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## Bdabike (Jan 27, 2013)

How long is the wait if I order 104 bcd 32 oval to the U.S? Have been wanting one for a long time.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

we are out of stock at the minute but will have more in 4 days. Shipping time to US is about 7 days at the current speed of USPS.

I really do recommend to backorder and wait (max 5-7days). We always send older orders first. So if you order today and another 200 people will order tomorrow, then once we get stock your order will be sent first...


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## Dreamscent (Aug 2, 2011)

tehan said:


> we are out of stock at the minute but will have more in 4 days. Shipping time to US is about 7 days at the current speed of USPS.
> 
> I really do recommend to backorder and wait (max 5-7days). We always send older orders first. So if you order today and another 200 people will order tomorrow, then once we get stock your order will be sent first...


Placed my order for a 34t a couple days ago. Excited for them to arrive!


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

I changed from 32-20 to 34-22 a month ago so I could give it a good test and I couldn't use the 32 oval ring. I'm happy riding 34-22 now and have ridden it enough that I'm used to it now so the change to 34t oval should tell me something.
I got an email 8 days ago that my 34t had been shipped. Did anyone else get that shipping notice and has anyone received theirs yet from that batch? It shows it was mailed in Poland but nothing on the USPS site yet. Not complaining just looking forward to trying the oval.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey,
we have several customers in same boat. We posted quite a lot in last two weeks to US and almost all the parcels do not show where they are now on USPS website. I called postal office in Poland(from where they have been sent) to see what is going on and got an answer that due to bad weather in US, USPS is very slow in updates etc so information is not visible. 
I can't validate it as I do not live in US, but it looks like all the parcels are in the same situation not just one or two. I am sure they are by now in US already as it only takes 3 days to NY ( central hub from European parcels). So they sit or in customs for clearing or in warehouses in US waiting to be delivered.
In summer months it takes only 5-7 days to deliver to US home address from my experience.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

Sometimes you never get tracking from USPS until your item is delivered. With UPS you find out every time someone picks up your package. One is private industry and one is government run- Hmmm. 

Thanks for the quick response.


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## saki (Oct 19, 2008)

I wasn't home when delivered had to go to post to pick up. I had to sign that's why they didn't leave it. took about 15 days from order with one holiday 5 days in new York. tried it out today pr s everywhere


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Got mine in Canada a couple of days ago. It shipped on Feb 5. Won't actually get to use it until I switch my winterbike back to ss-mode, which is still at least a couple of weeks away.


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## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

Has anyone recieved (the Feb 7 shipments) it on the west coast?


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## saki (Oct 19, 2008)

Yes I live in oc took 15 days


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

I am in Ohio and have not received mine yet. I can't get anything when searching the tracking number on USPS.

this is from the tracking #:
Item posting	2015-02-09 12:38 FUP Opole 1
Item arrived	2015-02-09 16:57 UP Opole 1
Package sent from Poland	2015-02-10 17:06 WER Warszawa


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

In the same email you got the tracking number we provided USPS website link to track it and wrote instruction. Sometimes it does not show much as USPS is really busy now due to bad weather (supposedly). So in 99% cases at the moment the info on the parcel is not there. But this does not mean that parcel is lost. It will be delivered within few days to you. Be patient (I know it is hard sometimes)


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Moment many of you have been waiting for. RaceFace Cinch Oval rings are here!
32T oval for the start with 30 and 34T coming in few more weeks.

Visit our web for more details:
RaceFace Oval

Lighter than original round ones, with great oval shape and possibility to adjust the clocking position of the ring if you want to. This is the Ultimate solution for your RF crank.

Long description:
Our main/recommended clocking position is a fantastic setup for everyone (same as our other rings in the line). However some more experienced riders may like a bit more aggressive clocking. RaceFace oval chainring allows you to change clocking position by 22deg both ways from initial setup. 
RF Cinch mounting pattern is the only one out of all direct mount chainring patterns on the market (like Sram/Hope/E13) that can be rotated by every 22.5deg (16 spline design). That coincides with 2 positions that oval users love.

Our main (signature) position is located around 3.30 oclock. That means crank arm is located at 3.30 oclock when major axis of the oval is at 12 oclock (vertical). That gives greatest benefits and excellent feel of the ring.

Our second position in RF oval rings is located at 4.30 oclock. That is 22deg later than our main position. You need to turn the ring clockwise by one notch on the spline pattern. This position is favored by some experienced riders out there who already rode oval rings for few years from various manufacturers. We do not recommend it for people who just started the experience with ovals as this position is more pronounced and aggressive. We encourage customers to play with second position only when they have ridden on the main position for minimum 5-6 months (or ridden other ovals for longer period of time).

Chainring has a mark on the back side of where the main position is. That mark needs to be located in the middle of crank arm.

Our oval 32T ring is only 62g vs 68g from RF. But oval 32T rides like 34T equivalent (RF 34T is 70g). That makes RF Next SL crank with our 32T oval ring lightest possible setup on the market (for that crank).


----------



## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

Finally!

Ordered one up, cant wait to try it out. Almost had a heart attack with US/CAD conversions though... silly economy.


----------



## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Any plans for 30T oval sram chain rings? If so when will it be available? I have a 32T but it won't fit in my yelli screamy so looking to try the 30T and hope it ditd


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

pwu_1 said:


> Any plans for 30T oval sram chain rings? If so when will it be available? I have a 32T but it won't fit in my yelli screamy so looking to try the 30T and hope it ditd


Aye... Also looking forward to this... Gxp or cinch...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Sorry I meant to say 30T oval SRAM GXP


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Sram ovals gxp 28, 30 and 34T - in production. Available in about 4 weeks.
Sram oval BB30 flat version for short axles also in production. Same timing most likely.
RF cinch 30T oval - in production.

And there is Much more coming So we are quite busy.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

I hope you'll also make large rings for cx


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## kallie (Jul 29, 2007)

Any chance for direct mount oval on Middleburn ?


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

tehan said:


> In the same email you got the tracking number we provided USPS website link to track it and wrote instruction. Sometimes it does not show much as USPS is really busy now due to bad weather (supposedly). So in 99% cases at the moment the info on the parcel is not there. But this does not mean that parcel is lost. It will be delivered within few days to you. Be patient (I know it is hard sometimes)


I'm not worried, yet. The USPS link with the same tracking number shows nothing other than: "We have received notice that the originating post is preparing to dispatch this mail piece."


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

same info is visible with every single parcel we sent to US in last 3 weeks. It seems USPS does not update it at all at the moment. I know it is frustrating as everyone wants to see where it is but we can't do anything. It is USPS issue as they should provide tracking info. Parcels are sent with tracking option. Normally it shows up with quite a lot of details, but not recently...


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

Like I said, I am not worried. If it isn't here in another couple weeks, then maybe I will start to worry.

for now, the SS is about worthless (for me...) with 6" of snow on the ground. Fun, but I had to walk too much last time out.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i know everyone is anxious, but remember the days w/o tracking? gees, you guys are worse than a lil kid at christmas. patience is a virtue and by the looks of it not many have it. try growing a plant that yields something to offer and maybe it will set in.


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## erichwic (Mar 3, 2004)

Antikid said:


> Like I said, I am not worried. If it isn't here in another couple weeks, then maybe I will start to worry.
> 
> for now, the SS is about worthless (for me...) with 6" of snow on the ground. Fun, but I had to walk too much last time out.


I wish we only had 6", we have about 2' in western NY. I won't be able to try my ring out until, what it looks like, April or May. Ugh.


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

Antikid said:


> I am in Ohio and have not received mine yet. I can't get anything when searching the tracking number on USPS.
> 
> this is from the tracking #:
> Item posting	2015-02-09 12:38 FUP Opole 1
> ...


I am in the same boat but am in Arizona where the riding weather is perfect. Order placed on 1/22/15.

Tracking info:
Package status:2015-02-03 17:03 FUP Opole 1
Package sent from Poland *2015-02-05* 12:45WER Warszawa

USPS says they have not received the package from overseas still. UGH!


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## peteshoe (Apr 20, 2007)

2 quick questions - When clocking the new Race Face oval ring, what would be closest to the #3 position with a rotor ring? Lastly - Have you attempted to make an oval pulley for Gates' belt drive? I've been using rotor rings for 6 years on my single speed ( and now yours) I would love to use a belt, but I can use one after using oval rings for so long. I thing an oval pulley would be HUGE. Keep up the great work -


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

sweet. looks like I will be getting mine tomorrow!

February 27, 2015 , 4:36 pm Arrived at USPS Facility BETHPAGE, NY 11714


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

Tracking now shows mine in Jersey City on Thursday. Nothing should have to spend the weekend in Jersey City so I'm hoping my chainring ring got out of there and is close to me and being delivered tomorrow as well. 
Looking forward to posting a ride report rather than wondering where it might be!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

peteshoe said:


> Lastly - Have you attempted to make an oval pulley for Gates' belt drive? I've been using rotor rings for 6 years on my single speed ( and now yours) I would love to use a belt, but I can use one after using oval rings for so long. I thing an oval pulley would be HUGE.


Wonder if you could still keep the tension the belt needs with the slight movement the oval has?

Also wondering if Gates has a patent on the tooth profile of their pulleys.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Stray Mutt said:


> Tracking now shows mine in Jersey City on Thursday. Nothing should have to spend the weekend in Jersey City so I'm hoping my chainring ring got out of there and is close to me and being delivered tomorrow as well.
> Looking forward to posting a ride report rather than wondering where it might be!


Hopefully the governor doesn't eat it.


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## peteshoe (Apr 20, 2007)

Likely, but Gates has to be disappointed in their lack of market penetration. I would think that they would welcome a partner that could help them reach more customers and increase system efficiency. It's my pipe dream......


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

Antikid said:


> sweet. looks like I will be getting mine tomorrow!
> 
> February 27, 2015 , 4:36 pm Arrived at USPS Facility BETHPAGE, NY 11714


Good for you! When did you order yours?


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

Holy crap look what came today! I wasn't expecting this for a while still, you guys rock. 34t. Can't wait to put it on this weekend and try it out. I'll report back as soon as I do.


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

mcoplea said:


> Good for you! When did you order yours?


jan 27th. I knew it was out of stock when I ordered it.

i did get it today. luckily i was home and was able to sign for it.


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## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

I just got mine in the mail today also. I didn't have to sign for mine.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

I got one of mine without having to sign, the other one I had to sign for it. Not sure why the difference as they were shipped the same way, but the local post office handled them differently.


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## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

Just installed the chainring and it looks great. 

But, I have a Shimano XT 2x10 crank and was running a SRAM PC1 chain and on the narrow part of the chainring, it's rubbing. I'm figuring I will need a narrower chain, but am not sure which type of chain I can should get 8, 9 or 10 speed. 

Anyone else experience this problem and which chain worked best?

Thanks.


----------



## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

t3mplar said:


> Just installed the chainring and it looks great.
> 
> But, I have a Shimano XT 2x10 crank and was running a SRAM PC1 chain and on the narrow part of the chainring, it's rubbing. I'm figuring I will need a narrower chain, but am not sure which type of chain I can should get 8, 9 or 10 speed.
> 
> ...


You may need some chainring spacers, to move it away from the crank. This will also give you a better chainline!


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

t3mplar said:


> Just installed the chainring and it looks great.
> 
> But, I have a Shimano XT 2x10 crank and was running a SRAM PC1 chain and on the narrow part of the chainring, it's rubbing. I'm figuring I will need a narrower chain, but am not sure which type of chain I can should get 8, 9 or 10 speed.
> 
> ...


Where is it rubbing?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Get a real chain too, no matter what. That's not a good chain.


----------



## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

It's on the narrow part of the oval.


----------



## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

NordieBoy said:


> Where is it rubbing?


I've attached some pics



SS Hack said:


> Get a real chain too, no matter what. That's not a good chain.


But can't beat the price $6.



xcbarny said:


> You may need some chainring spacers, to move it away from the crank. This will also give you a better chainline!


I'm hoping to avoid the spacers. The chainring already has a built in spacer.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

t3mplar said:


> I'm hoping to avoid the spacers. The chainring already has a built in spacer.


So its the 32t?
The PC1 is 1/8" and you'll need a 3/32" or narrower.


----------



## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

NordieBoy said:


> So its the 32t?
> The PC1 is 1/8" and you'll need a 3/32" or narrower.


Yes, 32T. So I should be good with a 9 speed chain. Thanks!


----------



## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

t3mplar said:


> Yes, 32T. So I should be good with a 9 speed chain. Thanks!


I would suggest a decent 8 speed chain from SRAM. They are stronger and cheaper than the 9 speed versions. That's all I run and have had great luck. I tried a PC1 once, never again!

I'm not sure how close it is, but the 9 speed will be a little narrower and may give you more clearance.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

bikeny said:


> I would suggest a decent 8 speed chain from SRAM. They are stronger and cheaper than the 9 speed versions. That's all I run and have had great luck. I tried a PC1 once, never again!
> 
> I'm not sure how close it is, but the 9 speed will be a little narrower and may give you more clearance.


The 8 speed is too wide for the gap between the ring and crank arm.


----------



## twister1969 (Dec 18, 2014)

I've got a Kona single speed I would like to put these sprockets on. Right now I'm geared 36-18 and would like to know what the biggest front sprocket is I can buy, then I can figure out what rear wheel sprocket I need. Will the rear sprockets fit my rear wheel? I just got this bike, I've been riding cruisers, not very familiar with this style bike. Thanks for any help, Dave.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

twister1969 said:


> I've got a Kona single speed I would like to put these sprockets on. Right now I'm geared 36-18 and would like to know what the biggest front sprocket is I can buy, then I can figure out what rear wheel sprocket I need. Will the rear sprockets fit my rear wheel? I just got this bike, I've been riding cruisers, not very familiar with this style bike. Thanks for any help, Dave.


The 34t front and a 17 rear would have a similar feel.
I would try with just adding the 34 first.
I'm running 32/21 on my Unit, but it's geared for the hills.


----------



## twister1969 (Dec 18, 2014)

Thanks for the quick reply. Do you order these direct, or do you have to go through a dealer? I'll be ordering one tomorrow.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Got my 34 and 32 direct from AbsoluteBlack. The rear cogs from the local bike shop.


----------



## twister1969 (Dec 18, 2014)

NordieBoy, thanks again, Dave.


----------



## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

A 9 speed chain worked perfectly (without any rubbing) with the 32T oval ring and Shimano XT 2x10 crank.


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## eonicks (Mar 3, 2011)

Any one receive they're February 5th shipment on the east coast? I got the shipping notice with an invalid tracking number. I can understand some delay with weather, but this is starting to get ridiculous.


----------



## saki (Oct 19, 2008)

does anybody know how the b labs oval clocking compare with absolute black oval tia


----------



## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

eonicks said:


> Any one receive they're February 5th shipment on the east coast? I got the shipping notice with an invalid tracking number. I can understand some delay with weather, but this is starting to get ridiculous.


I live on the west coast and got my Feb 5th shipment on Monday (3/3/15).

On the tracking number try adding a "PL" at the end of the number when you search usps.com


----------



## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

First ride with the 32T oval chainring. Wow, I'm a believer, I've been off the bike for a few weeks and with this chainring, all the though climbs were much easier, I just have to get my cardio back.


----------



## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

So what chain do you guys recommend? Unfortunately my 3/32 cutter single speed chain didn't work.


----------



## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

A KMC 8 speed worked great on mine.


----------



## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

t3mplar said:


> I live on the west coast and got my Feb 5th shipment on Monday (3/3/15).
> 
> On the tracking number try adding a "PL" at the end of the number when you search usps.com


Congrats to those of you who did receive your order. My order was placed on 1/22/15, the last update on my tracking # was: Package sent from Poland 2015-02-05 12:45 WER Warszawa

As of today, 3/9/15, package still not delivered and no further updates on the tracking since 2/5/15. I have emailed Absolute Black several times and was told to be patient and wait a few more days. They stated that it is not their problem, but a problem with USPS. I called USPS and they stated that they have not received the shipment from overseas as of yet. I requested a refund from Absolute Black and did not get a response. I ended up having to file a claim through Paypal to try and get my $ back.

Too bad, I really wanted to try out this chain-ring.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mcoplea said:


> Congrats to those of you who did receive your order. My order was placed on 1/22/15, the last update on my tracking # was: Package sent from Poland 2015-02-05 12:45 WER Warszawa
> 
> As of today, 3/9/15, package still not delivered and no further updates on the tracking since 2/5/15. I have emailed Absolute Black several times and was told to be patient and wait a few more days. They stated that it is not their problem, but a problem with USPS. I called USPS and they stated that they have not received the shipment from overseas as of yet. I requested a refund from Absolute Black and did not get a response. I ended up having to file a claim through Paypal to try and get my $ back.


Pity, I got the initial sent message and then nothing until it arrived.

I've had 2 packages from Chain Reaction sent on the same day, 1 arrived within a week, the other took over 2 weeks.


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi,
sorry to hear that you are not happy. As I wrote before USPS is swamped with parcels and things go much longer than usual. Just go few pages back in this thread and you will see that many people did have same problem. If parcel is lost I will surely send you the new one. NO ONE is left behind. 
USPS does not update statuses from good month on the parcels. Polish website only will show you that the parcel left the country and nothing beyond that. To track it you have to check USPS website. They will tell you that parcel is not yet received which is nonsense as they get to US (New York central hub) within 3 days. Then it is USPS mess after the bad weather and not delivering parcels for some time. So they have plenty to do and do not bother to update thousands of our customers with information.

Just also bare in mid that these rings got so popular that we barely catch up. So some delay in response is inevitable at the moment.


----------



## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

I ordered the 34t oval thinking I had 34 on my SS, it's a 32...

what rear cog should i run with the 34t oval to match or be slightly easier than what i had with 32/18?


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

if you run 29er then 32/18 gives you 51,4 gear inches. To get to same number you will need to use 34/19. But if you want it slightly easier then 20T cog is your best option and this is what I would do since 20T is easier to get.


----------



## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

thanks for the super fast reply!! 20T it is
now i can finally try this oval out.


----------



## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Got mine today (3/9) and it shipped on 2/24 and landed in the SF Bay Area. Not bad when you consider the weather back east. The package was in great shape like it was shipped from the next county. Funny thing is I got wheels from Oregon shipped by UPS and the box was beat with a big hole in it - yet the Polish and US post got a little envelope here in mint condition.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

Can't believe the number of people whining to a retailer about the quality of mail service :smallviolin: If they've shipped the package and given you the tracking number, what more can they do? 4+ weeks is not unheard of for overseas shipping.

My ring was backordered but it was back in stock and shipped exactly when they promised. Can't wait to order the BB30 flat version as well.


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

spsoon said:


> Can't believe the number of people whining to a retailer about the quality of mail service :smallviolin: If they've shipped the package and given you the tracking number, what more can they do? 4+ weeks is not unheard of for overseas shipping.
> 
> My ring was backordered but it was back in stock and shipped exactly when they promised. Can't wait to order the BB30 flat version as well.


I know, it is crazy in today's world that customers expect to receive a product they pay for in a reasonable time frame.

"4+ weeks is not unheard of for overseas shipping."??? - If this was 1912 and we shipped things via the RMS Titanic, I would agree with you. Absolute Black claims that it takes just 3 days to ship from Poland to the USA hub.

"If they've shipped the package and given you the tracking number, what more can they do?" - The tracking # shows no progress for over 1 month. They simply can file a lost package claim with their local postal service and refund the customer's $ that never received the product.


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## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

Well, to be fair, once it leaves their hands, there's not much they can do, like others have said. My parts were shipped to Canada, and they got to Canada within days... I received a notice that it was within the major sorting center. the wait has been on Canada Post to actually deliver the package to my door. Its been sitting in a warehouse marked "sent for further processing" for the last week and a half. 

Honestly, the only way they can address this would be to have crazy expensive shipping that guarantees shipping dates. I much prefer not having to go this route, because it sucks having to pay 2/3rds of the product's price in shipping. 

I have been eBaying stuff for years, and this has always been my expectation for shipping...it doesn't matter, if its international, its almost guaranteed to take 3-4 weeks.

Life must be magical in the states, with free next days shipping, and amazon prime accounts for all. 

I mean, its just a chain ring. You're bike will probably still work without the new one. 

(says the person who is just as antsy as everyone else in receiving his oval ring  )


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

mcoplea said:


> Congrats to those of you who did receive your order. My order was placed on 1/22/15, the last update on my tracking # was: Package sent from Poland 2015-02-05 12:45 WER Warszawa
> 
> As of today, 3/9/15, package still not delivered and no further updates on the tracking since 2/5/15. I have emailed Absolute Black several times and was told to be patient and wait a few more days. They stated that it is not their problem, but a problem with USPS. I called USPS and they stated that they have not received the shipment from overseas as of yet. I requested a refund from Absolute Black and did not get a response. I ended up having to file a claim through Paypal to try and get my $ back.
> 
> Too bad, I really wanted to try out this chain-ring.


Please check again your tracking number and you will see it will be delivered tomorrow. Check it on USPS website. https://www.usps.com/

Like I wrote many times we stand up to the task and always solve the problems. Yes sometimes it takes longer and we are sorry for that BUT we always solve the problems and deliver the goods. 
USPS is very slow lately and I understand some of you may get angry but they do deliver the goods. If someone really thinks that his parcel is lost or stolen we will always send the new one. So no one, i repeat, no one is left empty handed.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

please check your tracking number today. That same one we sent some time ago. You will see it will be with you Tomorrow most likely. USPS is very slow but they do deliver the goods. 
I know it is very frustrating but because of the weather conditions USPS is slow and we can't speed it up.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Any more info on the availability of a 34T GXP oval? I can't wait much longer as the snow is melting and race season is just over a month away.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

jonw9 said:


> Any more info on the availability of a 34T GXP oval? I can't wait much longer as the snow is melting and race season is just over a month away.


2 more weeks. They are sent to anodizer now so will be back with us in about 2 weeks


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

mcoplea said:


> I know, it is crazy in today's world that customers expect to receive a product they pay for in a reasonable time frame.
> 
> "4+ weeks is not unheard of for overseas shipping."??? - If this was 1912 and we shipped things via the RMS Titanic, I would agree with you. Absolute Black claims that it takes just 3 days to ship from Poland to the USA hub.
> 
> "If they've shipped the package and given you the tracking number, what more can they do?" - The tracking # shows no progress for over 1 month. They simply can file a lost package claim with their local postal service and refund the customer's $ that never received the product.


It doesn't appear that you order parts overseas very often.


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## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

One thing to consider is that US Customs, for some reason, might have held a shipment for closer inspection. Just a thought.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Was quite happy with the Absoluteblack oval chainring until this happened today during a usual climb. The chain just fell off and realised the ring was bend under pressure! Only 3 rides. Can ask for money back or replacement?


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## twister1969 (Dec 18, 2014)

Man, that sucks. I hope you let us know how they handle this.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

chris9888 said:


> Was quite happy with the Absoluteblack oval chainring until this happened today during a usual climb. The chain just fell off and realised the ring was bend under pressure! Only 3 rides. Can ask for money back or replacement?
> 
> View attachment 972080


To do this in normal way you would have to use power of Track rider at Olimpc sprint. These rings can handle more than 150Nm of torque - that means more than some cars can deliver to the wheels. When you climb you can only deliver maximum 30-60Nm on the ring and on flat maybe 80-100 if you are very fit and strong rider.

What most probably happened (if it was on the climb or not) is that you got something stuck into drivetrain, then chain was lifted up half way and you kept pedaling. Then when you push just few teeth ring can be bent. But this would happen to any ring even steel one like lots of examples show on the internet. 
Out of tens of thousands rings we have in the field I see it second time now.

Send me an email and I will sort it out. But I can tell you that this is not the chainring issue here. Please send me also more photos on the email.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

chris9888 said:


> Was quite happy with the Absoluteblack oval chainring until this happened today during a usual climb. The chain just fell off and realised the ring was bend under pressure! Only 3 rides. Can ask for money back or replacement?
> 
> View attachment 972080


Lost a tooth there too.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nope, it is just bent. Seen already few more photos


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## bik_ryder (May 12, 2009)

*Absolute Black = Absolute Joke!*

I too made the mistake of ordering one these chainrings. :madman:

I placed an order towards the end of last year. I got an email saying it shipped with a tracking # a few weeks later. 45 days later, it was still not delivered and the tracking # showed nothing. Emailed AB, no response. 2 weeks later, emailed them again, still no response. Filed claim on Paypal and 28 days later Paypal decided in my favor and gave my $ back. Essentially, I gave AB a 3+ month loan and wasted a lot of my time.

Maybe if he spent less time browsing the internet and replying to these forums, he would have more time to actually make these products or reply to emails. If you are selling SOOO MANY of these chainrings, you should be able to afford to hire some people to actually take care of customers.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

bik_ryder said:


> I too made the mistake of ordering one these chainrings. :madman:
> 
> I placed an order towards the end of last year. I got an email saying it shipped with a tracking # a few weeks later. 45 days later, it was still not delivered and the tracking # showed nothing. Emailed AB, no response. 2 weeks later, emailed them again, still no response. Filed claim on Paypal and 28 days later Paypal decided in my favor and gave my $ back. Essentially, I gave AB a 3+ month loan and wasted a lot of my time.
> 
> Maybe if he spent less time browsing the internet and replying to these forums, he would have more time to actually make these products or reply to emails. If you are selling SOOO MANY of these chainrings, you should be able to afford to hire some people to actually take care of customers.


You sure you aren't looking for the HBC thread?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

bik_ryder said:


> I too made the mistake of ordering one these chainrings. :madman:
> 
> I placed an order towards the end of last year. I got an email saying it shipped with a tracking # a few weeks later. 45 days later, it was still not delivered and the tracking # showed nothing. Emailed AB, no response. 2 weeks later, emailed them again, still no response. Filed claim on Paypal and 28 days later Paypal decided in my favor and gave my $ back. Essentially, I gave AB a 3+ month loan and wasted a lot of my time.
> 
> Maybe if he spent less time browsing the internet and replying to these forums, he would have more time to actually make these products or reply to emails. If you are selling SOOO MANY of these chainrings, you should be able to afford to hire some people to actually take care of customers.


Sorry I do not remember a customer with such an issue. We actually hired few more staff and it is still not enough. 
Can you write me an email and I will then look into it and publicly reply? sounds fair right?


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

I thought biopace rings failed because they ruined your cadence. The damaged knees were a result of trying to spin the biopace elliptical forces. 
I don't see where cadence makes much difference on a SS MTB. I wouldn't use them on a street or track bike though. 
The tight then slack chain though would seem to be hard on chain, bottom brackets, rear axle, etc.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Crankyone said:


> I thought biopace rings failed because they ruined your cadence. The damaged knees were a result of trying to spin the biopace elliptical forces.
> I don't see where cadence makes much difference on a SS MTB. I wouldn't use them on a street or track bike though.
> The tight then slack chain though would seem to be hard on chain, bottom brackets, rear axle, etc.


New to this thread, huh?


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

tehan said:


> Sorry I do not remember a customer with such an issue. We actually hired few more staff and it is still not enough.
> Can you write me an email and I will then look into it and publicly reply? sounds fair right?


Might want to make sure he has the right email addy. Sounds like he doesn't, or you would already have been aware of the issue according to his side of the story.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Crankyone said:


> I thought biopace rings failed because they ruined your cadence. The damaged knees were a result of trying to spin the biopace elliptical forces.
> I don't see where cadence makes much difference on a SS MTB. I wouldn't use them on a street or track bike though.
> The tight then slack chain though would seem to be hard on chain, bottom brackets, rear axle, etc.


Rotor rings and these, while both oval, place the oblong shape in a different part of the stroke, thus eliminating the problems associated with Biopace.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Hope my new GXP ring doesn't fold - but nothing fun every happens to my gear.


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## avatar4281 (Nov 6, 2012)

I've been riding fixie with no straps and, if anything, regular chainrings hurt my knees. When the crank arms are at noon and six the angles are weird and have to put a lot of pressure on my knees. Also, I think these would be an avantage because I could run shorter crank arms which would be easier on my knees. I just wish he made them in 46t because I have to get a whole new crank. But I do a lot of curb (and larger) hopping on my fixie so reducing the size of the chainring and crank length would be nice. Can't wait to try it!


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Just took mine for the first ride, and it was pretty fun. On flats I didn't really notice, but it definitely evens out standing ss mashing up a hill.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Ordered mine on 3/3 and it arrived today!


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## saki (Oct 19, 2008)

104 oval at chain reaction 49 bucks


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## t3mplar (Jun 4, 2013)

Put the AB oval chainrings on my FS today to test it on a very long and climb heavy ride and loved it. I'm running a 1x10 and have at times really missed having the small ring in the front, but with these ovals, it really helped.

Just ordered another one, now just have to wait, while I put these ovals back on the SS.


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## Hauffy (Sep 25, 2012)

saki said:


> 104 oval at chain reaction 49 bucks


What Brand?


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

Hauffy said:


> What Brand?


AbsoluteBlack

$49 for the 32
$42 for the 34

Plus $10 shipping


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

http://www.bikerumor.com/2015/03/11...-series-components-for-chain-reaction-cycles/


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

if a bike has a 34t single ring max, can you run the 34t oval? 

asking about Evil The Following. I would try it instead of asking, but don't have the frame yet


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Earlier in this thread there was a couple of pages of discussion about chain tolerances, and I just had a strange experience that I wanted to share.

My AB ring worked perfectly, so no issues there.

But my year-old surly cog didn't play nice with a brandnew KMC X8.93 chain:


__
https://flic.kr/p/rCC8RZ

You can press the chain onto the teeth to make it sit properly, but it takes a bit of work. When backpedalling the chain bounces around and binds a bunch, and setting proper chain tension with the AB ring was really tough because things are all over the place.

I've got a bag of unused chain remnants, so I figured I would try them. A 9spd sram chain fit like a glove, but half-a-dozen KMCs all did this:
IMAG1026

I also happened to have a new KMC Z91 (normally I get the X8 series) and it fits like it's supposed to:


__
https://flic.kr/p/qFCmCj

Weird.

Weirder is that I ran this cog with an X8.93 chain last year, and didn't notice there was a problem.

I think the only reason I noticed it now was because it made getting good tension with the AB ring impossible. But with the Z91 it all works out.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

SeaBass_ said:


> AbsoluteBlack
> 
> $49 for the 32
> $42 for the 34
> ...


A word of explanation. We launched few days ago the "BLACKseries by absoluteBLACK " brand which is sold only at Chainreactioncycles.

have a look at our website for this BLACKseries - Home

These chainrings use same materials, manufacturing techniques and we do them still in our facility, but there is a very big difference in design.
Blackseries has a simple industrial design to cut the machining costs. It is targeted at customers who look for a good quality chainring with tight budget. 
We only offer very limited sizes/models and only in black. They are also heavier than absoluteBlack original ones.
For now there is only 40T cog, 32/34 round ring and 32&34T oval.

In Shimano terminology I would say:
Absoluteblack = xtr level
Blackseries = slx equivalent

with blackseries we want to give the opportunity for everyone to try ovals. 
As we grow we have the opportunity to give the customers more options and change the marker significantly.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Antikid said:


> if a bike has a 34t single ring max, can you run the 34t oval?
> 
> asking about Evil The Following. I would try it instead of asking, but don't have the frame yet


No. 34T oval hax max spot of 36T equivalent. So you will need to use 32T oval to fit with your max on frame.


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## saki (Oct 19, 2008)

tell us why chain reaction the only one to sell blac series please


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I assume you are a shop owner.
Because they can support us with the volume we need to offer such series. This is a lot more complex in fact and this place is not appropriate to discuss it further I am afraid.


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## saki (Oct 19, 2008)

Thank You for responding I understand the real world good luck i hope you achieve your dreams


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

I received my 34 about ten days ago and have had a couple rides on it. So far I'd have to say I like it. I don't notice it being much different in just riding around but climbing seems to have a different leg feel, smoother maybe. Standing and pedaling seems to have a little more punch in the stroke. I know none of that is in any way scientific but all in all I think I like it.
I do wish I could use a 32 oval which would give me more gearing choices to try. I'm running Paul hubs and a WI freewheel so I need to run the chainring on the outside of the crank to get my chainline dialed. With the built in nut and spacer arrangement on the 32 is there any way to bolt it from the reverse side to keep the orientation correct but put it on the outside of the spider? Or if not maybe have the spacer machined off and drill a normal chainring bolt hole? Or maybe make a special run of 32's for those of us with a WI freewheel? I know I'm not the only one out there using that setup.


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## SeaBass_ (Apr 7, 2006)

why wouldnt you just be able to flip it over?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

You can't flip it as it will result in the oval shape being clocked wrong. Please don't do this, even if it is tempting.

Stray - I am afraid there is not much you can do. Spacers and threads has to be in 32T oval. If you look closely you will find out that smallest part of the oval is an equivalent of 30T round ring. That means not enough space for chain when mounted flat, I mean with no spacer (this is why 30T round chainrings do have integrated spacers as well).

Idea with adding spacer on the other side will not work as well. Look how our spacer looks like. It is machined out close to the tooth as well, so is not round on entire circumference. 

Best way is to just get 34T oval in such case and run bigger cog on the back for SS. Bigger rings/cogs live longer, so this helps on SS and you still have plenty of choices with cogs.


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## mcoplea (Nov 11, 2004)

tehan said:


> Please check again your tracking number and you will see it will be delivered tomorrow. Check it on USPS website. https://www.usps.com/


Unfortunately, it was not delivered last week. However, it was finally delivered today, thank you.

Ordered 1/22/15
Shipped from Poland on 2/5/15 (as promised by Absolute Black)
Delivered 3/16/15


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Shimano 36T oval 104BCD in stock! We just got the first batch, so it will not last for very long...

OVAL 104BCD chainring

Sram Oval 30 and 34T are also now available to order. Delivery in about 2 weeks.


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

tehan said:


> No. 34T oval hax max spot of 36T equivalent. So you will need to use 32T oval to fit with your max on frame.


That's what I thought, but wanted to make certain. Thanks, as always, for the quick reply.


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## santabooze (Oct 14, 2010)

I've been using this product for a few months now... My 2 cents, Ive got one on my fatbike, and I've got one on my 29er (1X10), and soon to have one on my SS 29er. .
Great product does what it claims( for me) seamless integration with my mashing style.
Ill keep it on for my 24hr coming up in May and see how that works for me. otherwise good product.
And no shipping issues.


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## Awshucks (Apr 14, 2013)

*1 ride - Oval ring review*

I finally got to ride mine today. The regular 104bcd 34T ring.

Shipping was fine. I ordered mine at the beginning of February and received it in central Texas like 3 weeks later just about.

After one inaugural ride I am definitely a convert. I probably won't ever use another chain ring as long as this one lasts or the company is around.

Installation was easy. Unfortunately the chain ring didn't work with my Cutter Asymm SS chain which was advertised as a 3/32 chain. I don't know why but such is life right? I bought a new KMC X8.99 8 spd chain (for those needing a recommendation) and it worked great and it felt nice to have a new strong chain. I should also mention my ratio before the oval ring was 32x20. I accidentally bought a 34t oval thinking all this time my original ratio had been 34x20, but I was wrong. I decided that a 34t oval would be fine and I would just use my 21t surly cog to get me closer to the 32x20 gear inches.

First ride down the street I didn't even feel the initial difference others described feeling in the first pedal strokes that they immediately got used to. It felt natural from the get-go.

The first ride on single track was AMAZING. It probably had something to do with new gear stoke and pushing a little harder gear ratio that made me a bit faster than normal, but I was getting at it the WHOLE ride. Where I noticed the benefits of the oval ring the most was in flat sections and the climbs. One particular long slightly dh flat section before a steep climb, my geared wife always lost me because I couldn't keep up consistent pedaling without giving up first or losing control. Today however, I just kept pedaling..faster..than faster...waiting for it to just feel absurd or lose control. BUT it just felt natural and like I had total control and there I was on her rear tire the whole section and then before I knew it we were approaching the climb and I shot right up it! Fastest I have ever done that section on a SS by far. That was pretty much how the rest of my ride went. On all the climbs the oval ring felt perfect right when it needed to (does that make sense?) and I rode the fastest and strongest I ever have on that route. If my strava had been running I was definitely setting PRs I had originally set on a geared bike. Unfortunately my strava was never set before my ride so I had to go off my wife's. I kept up almost 10mph avg on 12 miles with 750 ft of elevation gain in 1hr and 18 minutes. To some that's nothing but that was my fastest ride ever.

In short I totally felt the difference where it mattered the most using the oval ring and I will definitely keep this ring on my bike.

As for durability, etc.. that I can't report on, but plan to in a few months.

Happy trails y'all!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

never mind, found my answer....


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

*Race Face cinch oval clocking*

Tehan, 
Can you explain a little more about the clocking options for the Race Face DM ring? I just set the 32t ring on my PivotLES in the optional clocking position (1 notch clockwise / 22 degree) . Spinning up and down my road, I didn't feel any difference- though this could be because the bike is new to me and about 4lbs lighter than my other bike with the oval ring.

Why is this ring clocking position more 'aggressive' ? How might it effect me in short and endurance races ?

thanks.

(Very much eager for the 34t RaceFace DM ring! )


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Didn't I write precisely on website that this optional position should be only used once you get used to our main,signature position? unless you are already a seasoned oval rider...

To feel the difference you need to ride for a month or two in our main position to adapt your muscles then you may try optional one. Optional position has major axis of oval coming later on the stroke than our signature position. 
This will, for many people be too late on the stroke and you may feel odd after riding in the woods for some time. New oval riders should NOT use the additional position on RF ring as this setup also requires slight changes in sitting position on the bike. Advanced users knows it, new ones does not. This is why optional position may only be tried if you get deep experience with our main position.


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Thanks. I've been on oval since you first put out the 104 bcd ones...  CAT 1 SS racer . I have the credentials... just need some time trail on the additional clocking position, I suppose


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

adinpapa said:


> Thanks. I've been on oval since you first put out the 104 bcd ones...  CAT 1 SS racer . I have the credentials... just need some time trail on the additional clocking position, I suppose


ok this changes the matter then

Additional clocking position on our RF direct mount chainring favors more XC riders where they sit more on the front section of the saddle. You will find yourself moving more to the front of the bike when you ride on this additional position. This is why I discourage most people from this position as current trail/enduro bike has a short stem and people tend to sit in the middle or end of the saddle.

Hence for trail/enduro riding with modern bike it is best to use our signature/main position (which is on all of our rings) as it is optimized for it and people love it.

you will see differences once you start riding uphill or sprinting.


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Thank you - that's the info I'm looking for ! I'll let you (and the masses) know how I find it compared to the standard position


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Hmmm, the additional clocking position may be of use to us single speeders standing whilst climbing...


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I just got the first ride in on mine, took a little more than two weeks to get to California. It looks like a work of art and the ano looks almost like paint. It felt totally natural and normal from the start - just much smoother. It seemed to help my standing and mashing too.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Hmmm, the additional clocking position may be of use to us single speeders standing whilst climbing...


No. I am SS rider myself as well (in winter at least) and while additional clocking help a little bit with climbing when you stand, it does not help with maintaining the speed well when you sit and in addition it moves your body a bit forward on the bike compromising handling on technical stuff. And as you all know SS is all about maintaining the speed/momentum.

This is why we only make one position on all of the rings except RF.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Cool. Could have been an expensive experiment. All my bikes have 104bcd cranks.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Cool. Could have been an expensive experiment. All my bikes have 104bcd cranks.


Get our oval for 104bcd and you will love it. No need to change clocking


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

tehan said:


> Get our oval for 104bcd and you will love it. No need to change clocking


Already running a 34t on the 26" and a 32t on the 29" and yes, I do love them.


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## tmc1171 (Nov 10, 2010)

Ordered on 2/24, received yesterday, 3/24. Most the holdup was in US customs, at least 2 weeks. AB was prompt with shipping & sending tracking info. No complaints on shipping timing, I'm used to waiting for overseas shipments.

I ordered the RF cinch 32t. I'm riding it singlespeed, coming from a 34t w/ various cogs from 18- 21. Mounted the AB 32 & ran the 19 I've had on for awhile. 
Initial shakedown run was mostly flat road spin & flat single track. As many have said, pedal stroke felt different at first, but I got used to it in a few minutes.

Most importantly, I felt like I maintained the top end of my 34 with the new AB oval 32. It turned over quickly in areas were I had to slow, stand and get quick acceleration. Very smooth transfers. 
So far, so good. I think it will be more apparent when I ride it in the hills and get to climbing. I can see the advantages with this ring for singlespeed.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

A friend wrote this on his FB page. Has anybody else experienced this issue? It was regarding a gxp, but not oval. 

"The Absolute Black works, but it deflects under load too much for me, caused a chain to bind then break. Put your finger on it and push lightly and you can see it flex. The SRAM does not flex."


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

adinpapa said:


> Tehan,
> Can you explain a little more about the clocking options for the Race Face DM ring? I just set the 32t ring on my PivotLES in the optional clocking position (1 notch clockwise / 22 degree) . Spinning up and down my road, I didn't feel any difference- though this could be because the bike is new to me and about 4lbs lighter than my other bike with the oval ring.
> 
> Why is this ring clocking position more 'aggressive' ? How might it effect me in short and endurance races ?
> ...


You might want to check out this thread for some useful info on clocking:

http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/oval-vs-asymmetric-rings-936577.html

You could also check the Rotor Q-Ring web page regarding OCP settings:
http://rotorbike.com/media/files/2012/12/rotor_80884855.pdf

I think a lot has to do with your height - where your saddle position is in relation to your BB, and also your riding style.

I'm a bit shorter, so am a bit further over the BB than most (more so on my road bike), so I'm liking a later clocking (just trying Rotors OCP 5) where the power zone ( major axis of oval ring) comes in a bit later in the pedal stroke. In the standard clocking position, I feel that the powerzone arrives too early, and it slows my cadence down.

I think the variation in clocking of the AB ring is probably a bit extreme (q-rings vary by 5 degrees from 1 position to the next so its easier to fine tune)

Also on a singlespeed, as you spend more time out of the saddle, then a later clocking may be beneficial, since your bodyweight is further over the BB.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

jonw9 said:


> A friend wrote this on his FB page. Has anybody else experienced this issue? It was regarding a gxp, but not oval.
> 
> "The Absolute Black works, but it deflects under load too much for me, caused a chain to bind then break. Put your finger on it and push lightly and you can see it flex. The SRAM does not flex."


I'm using a GXP. I don't have that problem.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

solo-x said:


> I'm using a GXP. I don't have that problem.


That is good to know. I meant to say his was direct mount, not GXP. Based on his picture it appears he was using the BB30 since no offset was visible. Going on a singlespeed there will be plenty of occasions for me to put this ring under heavy load, more so than his 1x11 setup (perhaps the 1x is attributing to said deflection).


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## Antikid (May 6, 2009)

I finally got my oval installed on the SS and went on a nice hard ride. I would be lying if I said I noticed much...

not saying that in a negative way. I think I need more time on it, but it wasn't a night and day difference.
Part of that might be because I went from 32/18 to 34(oval)/20 since I thought I had a 34 up front and ordered the 34 oval.

If I had to say I noticed anything, it was post ride in the car. I could 'feel' my calves. 
They didn't hurt or anything, but I knew they were down there and had done some work. I have to assume that is partly from the oval?

I did manage a 2015 KOM though...:thumbsup:

if it stops raining around here, i might get to ride it some more, but i doubt it. 
My Evil The Following shows up today, and the 34 oval won't fit since that frame max is 34.
Something tells me when I get that bike built (tonight) I won't be on the SS much. 

when i get out on the SS with the other 2 riding pals that have SS, I will let them try it out too.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

thinking about getting one of these. not sure about the size, I run a 32/20 right now and my biggest problem is getting through rock gardens and technical climbs. I avoid a lot of trails because I know I will have to walk them, but I also know that I can't get through those sections with a 1x9 gear either. will a oval ring help with that at all or will it be a wash?


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

I'm using a GXP direct mount and don't have any deflection problems. Is your buddy sure that the bolts are tightened properly and haven't come loose?

I've nabbed 3 2015 KOMs this week. Riding my SS 36x18 gear with mountain bike tires on the road. I've decided that 2015 KOMs are absolute rubbish.

An oval ring isn't going to improve your technical skills, though it might help you avoid spinning out if you pedal in squares. Go with the 32 oval though, and keep in mind that you might want to bump up to a 21t cog if you're already close to stalling out on your steep climbs.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

solo-x said:


> Go with the 32 oval though, and keep in mind that you might want to bump up to a 21t cog if you're already close to stalling out on your steep climbs.


That is an interesting thought that I didn't consider. I normally ride a 33t, so I bought the 34t oval. Should I gear more according to as if it was a 35 or 36t?

The website seems to indicate it should "feel" like my existing 33, so I was planning on running the same gears as usual.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

jonw9 said:


> That is an interesting thought that I didn't consider. I normally ride a 33t, so I bought the 34t oval. Should I gear more according to as if it was a 35 or 36t?
> 
> The website seems to indicate it should "feel" like my existing 33, so I was planning on running the same gears as usual.


Are you already close to stalling out with your current gearing? If not, carry on as usual.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

solo-x said:


> Are you already close to stalling out with your current gearing? If not, carry on as usual.


Not stalling, but I am planning on heading to Cohutta next month and (assuming my ring arrives in time) trying to determine if I should gear as if it is 33x, 34x, or 36x


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

jonw9 said:


> Not stalling, but I am planning on heading to Cohutta next month and (assuming my ring arrives in time) trying to determine if I should gear as if it is 33x, 34x, or 36x


You're probably fine using your normal gearing if you've already ridden Cohutta with it before.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

No, first time, hence the concern.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

jonw9 said:


> No, first time, hence the concern.


If it were me, I'd gear like it's a 36t. I tend to gear conservatively, especially so if I'm riding someplace new and for fun (vs. racing).


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## have2ride2day (Nov 7, 2009)

Sold


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I finally checked for deflection and if I push my spiderless ring to the side, it moves about 2mm. I'm very happy with it and my pedal stroke feels much more "round". I'll need another for my other bike soon.


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## twister1969 (Dec 18, 2014)

I would like to put one these sprockets on my bike, a kona humuhumu, which has a 4 bolt sprocket now. Are all 4 bolt cranksets the same? Which sprocket do I need to order for my bike? Any help on this is appreciated, Dave.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

twister1969 said:


> I would like to put one these sprockets on my bike, a kona humuhumu, which has a 4 bolt sprocket now. Are all 4 bolt cranksets the same? Which sprocket do I need to order for my bike? Any help on this is appreciated, Dave.


Looks like a standard 104bcd crankset.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

jonw9 said:


> Not stalling, but I am planning on heading to Cohutta next month and (assuming my ring arrives in time) trying to determine if I should gear as if it is 33x, 34x, or 36x


If you are unsure, the safest way is to gear an oval 34t ring just like a round 34t ring. There is no downside to it really. I found the oval ring just as easy to spin as a round one, but slow uphills became smoother and traction was more constant. There's no need to change gearing, although some people have been able to drop 1 tooth from the cog and ride as before.


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## anzi (Aug 23, 2013)

I've been thinking about how would these oval rings affect the amount of skid spots riding fixed gear, will there be as many spots as on a round ring, or does the ovality affect that?


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## anzi (Aug 23, 2013)

Also I started to think if going from a round ring to oval with the same tooth count, will the rear wheel be in the same spot on the rear sliders?


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## 1strongone1 (Jan 13, 2004)

anzi said:


> Also I started to think if going from a round ring to oval with the same tooth count, will the rear wheel be in the same spot on the rear sliders?


I just put one on my bike and I didn't have to change the slider position, or adjust the chain either.


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## anzi (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

Just tossed on an Absolute Black (Chain Reaction version) XT crankset. Replaced an old school square taper Middleburn RS7 UNO (super legit crankset, but the ring's life has expired). Looking forward to getting some miles in!


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

anzi said:


> Also I started to think if going from a round ring to oval with the same tooth count, will the rear wheel be in the same spot on the rear sliders?


Mine came forward a very small amount.


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## Riken (May 27, 2008)

any dropped chains with this AB setup?

my q-rotor 34t dropped 6 times when i first put it on and went for a test ride, so i made a chain keep for the rear bottom and have never had a problem since. despite that youtube video, my air9carbon on a real trail would drop.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

^ this is why i'm reluctant to buy one for my geared, but a ss i am getting ready to buy


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

Are you running a Narrow / Wide Q-Ring, or the Singlespeed version?

The Singlespeed version needs a chainguide on a geared bike. Not many people are running the Rotor N/W rings, as they don't run on a standard chainset (you either need Rotors Rex chainset, or one of their spiders to go on a Sram or specialized chainset - this is why i no longer use Q-rings!!)

An N/W ring and clutch rear mech should run fine, without any chain drops.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

why wouldn't q run a n/w for all? keep it simple [email protected]#$er. they need to suffer for that reason


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## ShoxR4Cox (Feb 11, 2015)

I have just completed a 12hr event running a 34t oval and 18t n/w cog (both Absoluteblack), KMC X10 vivid (coloured) chain. Not a single chain drop, and climbed much better than same course last year (dropped chain a couple of times last year using 'normal' ring and cog, but in hindsight that chain was a bit loose). Will be converting my second SS (with vert dropouts) to oval ring and n/w cog soon.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Riken said:


> any dropped chains with this AB setup?
> 
> my q-rotor 34t dropped 6 times when i first put it on and went for a test ride, so i made a chain keep for the rear bottom and have never had a problem since. despite that youtube video, my air9carbon on a real trail would drop.


I wonder if that has a bit to do with the Niner. With an XTR clutch rear derailleur and fromny XTR and Rotor rings I still had chain drops on my Air RDO.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

fishwrinkle said:


> why wouldn't q run a n/w for all? keep it simple [email protected]#$er. they need to suffer for that reason


I like my absoluteblack, but it means that I can't use a halflink, and so my effective chainstay is 1/2" longer than it needs to be. If they'd offered a non-n/w I would have gotten it, and if I wanted to get a second oval ring for my other ss I'd seriously think about getting a q. ymmv, basically.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'll take enhanced chain retention over an ideal chain stay length, any day.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

NordieBoy said:


> I'll take enhanced chain retention over an ideal chain stay length, any day.


Which is totally unneeded on a SS. I'm happy with my setup, but some bikes I've owned (Inbred) needed half links.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ it all depends on your gearing. I've got my EBB almost all the way forward, and it works fine, but if I could install a half-link I would.

N/W is great for geared, but for ss it's a limitation without any upside.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> Which is totally unneeded on a SS. I'm happy with my setup, but some bikes I've owned (Inbred) needed half links.


Some people drop chains unless the tension is absolutely spot-on and with an oval ring which has an inherent pair of slack periods per crank revolution, it isn't.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i run n/w on my ss because they last longer, imo.


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## Riken (May 27, 2008)

I'm running the 34t q-rotor ss chainring with surley cogs and a SL10 chain. there is enough slack for it to drop and yes this is with the chain perfectly tensioned almost tight on the tight spots.


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

Riken said:


> I'm running the 34t q-rotor ss chainring with surley cogs and a SL10 chain. there is enough slack for it to drop and yes this is with the chain perfectly tensioned almost tight on the tight spots.


I haven't heard anyone talk about chain line which is critical for a single speed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Riken (May 27, 2008)

i checked mine with a straight edge off the chainring with 4 different crank positions when it was new.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

I received the 30T Oval today. I got the e-mail that it was shipped on 4/12 so it took a total of 5 days to receive. Not bad at all.
Managed to get it installed on my Yelli Screamy but had to move the spacer from the ND side to the D side. Chainline on the 40T looks pretty nasty but so far it shifts ok and no noises while pedaling on the street so I guess we will see how it works out.


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I pre-ordered in March, 34T, before the rings were in stock, anticipating a 4/3 (approximate) ship date (as shown on the website). I received shipping notification on 4/12, and it was delivered on 4/17. 2 days were spent in NY customs, then speedy after. 

I installed it on the bike, and despite what was said, there is a definite tight/loose motion on the chain. I will probably re-tension so the tight (36t) isn't as tight, but that will make the loose area looser.

This is a new chain too, so maybe after some riding it may loosen a bit.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Do the bigger rings have more tight/loose happening? On my 32t, it is pretty minimal on a single speed.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

SS Hack said:


> Do the bigger rings have more tight/loose happening? On my 32t, it is pretty minimal on a single speed.


My 32 has more than my 34.
On the 32, it's considerably tighter at the power point of the left crank.

I think it's more the drilling of the crank bolt holes.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

NordieBoy said:


> My 32 has more than my 34.
> On the 32, it's considerably tighter at the power point of the left crank.
> 
> I think it's more the drilling of the crank bolt holes.


I'm running a spiderless GXP, so maybe my experience is different - but the chain goes up and down like 5mm and is no problem. From the first pedal stroke, this felt better than normal.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Half the weight and twice the power. This is my 2nd ring, going to bash it tomorrow. Short write-up on spiderless oval ring.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

NordieBoy said:


> I'll take enhanced chain retention over an ideal chain stay length, any day.


I've dropped more chains with a narrow wide on my bike than a normal SS ring. I was an idiot and ASSumed that the chainline was unchanged when I switched from an SLX crank to a X0 direct mount. When I finally checked the chainline again, I realized it was off some. Corrected, and haven't dropped a chain again since.

Ps. I also ride my geared bike with a standard single ring up front. I use a bash on the outside, nothing on the inside. I haven't dropped the chain yet provided I've engaged the clutch on the der. That said, I'd still use a n/w on a geared 1x setup. Not necessary IMO on an SS.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

28T Oval in 64BCD is in stock now. 
This one is for some of you who like extra small gear.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

bik_ryder said:


> I too made the mistake of ordering one these chainrings. :madman:
> 
> I placed an order towards the end of last year. I got an email saying it shipped with a tracking # a few weeks later. 45 days later, it was still not delivered and the tracking # showed nothing. Emailed AB, no response. 2 weeks later, emailed them again, still no response. Filed claim on Paypal and 28 days later Paypal decided in my favor and gave my $ back. Essentially, I gave AB a 3+ month loan and wasted a lot of my time.
> 
> Maybe if he spent less time browsing the internet and replying to these forums, he would have more time to actually make these products or reply to emails. If you are selling SOOO MANY of these chainrings, you should be able to afford to hire some people to actually take care of customers.


Just to make a good example. After I wrote to the bik_ryder contact suddenly dropped and it seems he left this forum permanently. 
It is easy to post accusations anonymously but when we really want to evaluate the case suddenly there is no case at all.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

tehan said:


> To do this in normal way you would have to use power of Track rider at Olimpc sprint. These rings can handle more than 150Nm of torque - that means more than some cars can deliver to the wheels. When you climb you can only deliver maximum 30-60Nm on the ring and on flat maybe 80-100 if you are very fit and strong rider.
> 
> What most probably happened (if it was on the climb or not) is that you got something stuck into drivetrain, then chain was lifted up half way and you kept pedaling. Then when you push just few teeth ring can be bent. But this would happen to any ring even steel one like lots of examples show on the internet.
> Out of tens of thousands rings we have in the field I see it second time now.
> ...


We got the ring back and figured it out. It took us 3 weeks but we got there.

When you were shifting the gears on the back, chain from some reason bounced up (this could be from a stone in drivetrain or small stick or just unfortunate shift on rough terrain). When it bounced up it looks like it dropped from front ring but only partially. Then you applied a fairly large force to the pedals and bent the ring because chain was only engaged on 1/3 of the ring. This is the situation where any chainring will bend as none of them are designed to be pedaled only on 1/3 of teeth engaged.
Clear signs of it is that 2 teeth have dig-in marks and clearly visible that chain at some point on the chainring went on the side of the ring(causing bend of the chain itself possibly) but still partially engaged on the chainring. So it did not drop off completely when you applied the force. What this caused is clogging in the chain on few teeth and this combined with applied force caused the damage.

It is extremely rare occurrence but this is a good example of it. Concluding: chainring itself was actually good.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

Ordered 34T Oval beginning of Dec when I first noticed it on this forum. It came in a week. I went OTB before I could mount it and broke my wrist (distal radius fracture, 5.5hrs surgery). Back on my SIR9 Rigid in March but it's been slow going until the last 10 days or so. I had 33x19 and replaced it with a 34T Oval.

As my confidence/fitness has returned I'm clearing everything, even stuff I rarely did before.

When I clear something now my riding buddies say, "You're cheating with that friggin' ring!" I'm sold. :thumbsup::thumbsup:



santabooze said:


> I've been using this product for a few months now... My 2 cents, Ive got one on my fatbike, and I've got one on my 29er (1X10), and soon to have one on my SS 29er. . Great product does what it claims( for me) seamless integration with my mashing style.


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## chris9888 (Feb 27, 2011)

Tested my new spiderless oval ring, very happy with the ring.

Flawless gear shift, powerful and awesome traction


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

I have a half link in when I run my 16t cog on vertical drops with a Surly Singleator. Will an oval chainring work? 
Bike is a ghetto converted Rockhopper. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

luvdabeach2001 said:


> I have a half link in when I run my 16t cog on vertical drops with a Surly Singleator. Will an oval chainring work?
> Bike is a ghetto converted Rockhopper.


Only if the oval does NOT have a narrow/wide tooth profile.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

luvdabeach2001 said:


> I have a half link in when I run my 16t cog on vertical drops with a Surly Singleator. Will an oval chainring work?
> Bike is a ghetto converted Rockhopper.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Won't work, they should make a regular oval.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

yes half links are the only chains that will not work with our rings. But half link chains are also the weakest ones so if you have other options to adjust the tension of the chain do so. I would personally avoid half link chain. It looks burly but they wear out quick.


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## Birdss (Apr 13, 2009)

Are there any plans for an Oval 94mm chainring? I'm trying to find one for my SRAM crankset.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Sram BB30 Ovals are ready to pre-order. We will deliver in about 12 days as parts are in anodizing already.

Sram OVAL BB30


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Birdss said:


> Are there any plans for an Oval 94mm chainring? I'm trying to find one for my SRAM crankset.


We have just started production of these
30, 32 and 34T for the start.

We will start taking orders in about 2 weeks.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Can someone help me understand how the advantage could possibly be considered "unfair" if this is a product sold on the public market???

Do the same people complain someone has an unfair advantage when they ride an all carbon rigid SS MTB that weighs 17lbs? When they have a better fork? When they have more free time and get to train/ride more than you?

Sounds like cheap excuses to me!


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Can someone help me understand how the advantage could possibly be considered "unfair" if this is a product sold on the public market???
> 
> Do the same people complain someone has an unfair advantage when they ride an all carbon rigid SS MTB that weighs 17lbs? When they have a better fork? When they have more free time and get to train/ride more than you?
> 
> Sounds like cheap excuses to me!


See my first post on this thread.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Tehan, what is the chain line with the 64BCD 28t?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I think "unfair advantage" was just a marketing line - but personally I do feel an advantage. It's just so much smoother on my SS - it's crazy how an oval can feel more round. These are for real and they got the shape right at least for me. I need another now for the other bike.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Can someone help me understand how the advantage could possibly be considered "unfair" if this is a product sold on the public market???
> 
> Do the same people complain someone has an unfair advantage when they ride an all carbon rigid SS MTB that weighs 17lbs? When they have a better fork? When they have more free time and get to train/ride more than you?
> 
> Sounds like cheap excuses to me!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

on 3x crank around 45.5mm.
On 2x close to 47.5mm. But this also depends if you have any spacers on the bb and so on.


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## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

I ordered a 32t and 34t 104bcd. May I know the chainline for both these rings?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

It depends on the crank you have. If 2X then 32T will have 49mm and 34T will have 51mm. If 3X then 32T will have 48mm and 34T 50mm. This is providing all spacers on bb are setup as standard as with many frames you can still tweak it a bit.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Sram OVAL 28T GXP are finally in. So now we offer 28-34T size run in ovals gxp.

Sram OVAL GXP

28T Oval chainring has an ovality of 26/30T and is best for someone who uses currently 26 or 28T round ring.

So if you have been using now round 26-28 chainring and still think you need a bit of help, then this oval is just for you.

On side note. Sram 94bcd ovals coming in 4 weeks. Same with XTR 96bcd ones, and there is plenty more coming.


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## 1x9 vassago (Oct 31, 2009)

are you guys making chainrings for shimano 88 bcd.?


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## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

Interested in those too!


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

....and 96BCD!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

No 88BCD - it's dead size already.

96bcd - yes in 4-5 weeks in oval. Already in preparation to full production run. 
94BCD- will be shortly. Just being produced.

There is plenty more coming as well (and not only chainrings). Surely for new XT cranks (as it is not same as for new XTR) and many more.


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

tehan said:


> No 88BCD - it's dead size already.
> 
> 96bcd - yes in 4-5 weeks in oval. Already in preparation to full production run.
> 94BCD- will be shortly. Just being produced.
> ...


Somebody needs to tell Middleburn that 88bcd is dead.


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## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

They're probably reading this.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I don't want to be understand incorrectly guys.

We would love to make all the BCD's but we are making so many things at the moment and will launch a lot more. We can't support bcd which is going away. And in case of 88bcd it goes away/gone already. Shimano is changing all their cranks to 96bcd asymmetrical design and this is where new standards are going to be. 

More "standards" from big players is for tactical reason - to force You buying again same rings from same manufacturer and to make life more difficult for smaller companies like us as we need to make more and more options all the time.



On the side note. Not sure if you thought about it. Shimano by making 96BCd assymetrical design actually recognizes that the forces you generate are biggest in power spots (top of ring when crank "horizontal") and smallest when cranks are vertical.
If you look how bolts are placed on circumference you will notice that they are moved closer together where biggest part of our oval is located and spreaded wider between crank arm where the smallest radius of the oval is(forces are minimal). So they also figured out finally how ovals should work


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## joshhan (Apr 1, 2011)

Just wanted to share my experiences with the oval ring (32t) since I've had a few rides on it now.

It almost feels like there is a small motor helping me turn over the pedals. It's really, really slight and it might be my imagination but that's what it feels like. 

Also, I've found that I can spin really, really fast without that annoying bob off the saddle. What this tells me is that it smooths out my (terrible?) spin technique and makes it more comfortable to spin fast on the flats or downhills.

No knee pain or discomfort. Not that I had any before. But it's worth noting I think. Also, worst case scenario, it's a nice narrow/wide chain ring.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

I own an AbsoluteBlack W/N chainring on my 1x10 FSR, and will prolly make the jump to an oval on my SS, possibly AB's.........they do make a great product..........


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Liked my original and just bought a second for my new SS project!

And sorry for the super late edit, but I ordered may 26th and it got here the 1st. With a weekend in there! Holy crap that fast international shipping. Dzienkuje bardzo gents, nice work!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

thanks.

In the meantime. You can read this excellent article from Pinkbike.

Absolute Black Oval Chainring for Race Face Cinch Cranksets - Review - Pinkbike

There is a lot of talking about our clocking position that reviewer liked a lot.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

tehan said:


> thanks.
> 
> In the meantime. You can read this excellent article from Pinkbike.
> 
> ...


Hi Tehan,

I am really interested in giving the Oval chainring a fair shake.

I have tried to contact you two ways:
1. I sent a message over a week ago using you Absolute Black message system on your website and never got a response.
2. I pm'd you through mtbr because I did not receive a response using your message system on your website and never got a response.
I am sure you are busy, but is there a better way to contact you that actually works? I have some specific questions.

Primarily...Currently, how many weeks wait time to get a direct mount SRAM Black Oval 30t (both a GXP and a Non GXP) ring to California if ordered today?

Thx!


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

had 2 days riding brown co IN, on my dixon; with 32 oval wolftooth, to a xx1. I kept wanting to shift into harder gears, even on the climbs. oval chainrings are rad!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

busy does not describe what we have here now. We work more than 15h a day to come with all that. 

best is email as this gets responses quickest. We tend to reply to website questions every few days. 

Both sram ovals are in stock. If you order today it will be sent on Friday (tomorrow is bank day holiday in EU) and it will reach you on average in 5-8days in US.


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## rydbyk (Oct 13, 2009)

ordered. thx.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Because I'd nicked the 34t oval off my rigid SS and put it on my CX bike for a race, I got to ride it with a 34t round ring.
The 34t oval is the only ring I've ever run on it and after 7 months of riding and getting used to how it handles and puts power down, the round ring was just weird.
Not as much traction and felt to be much higher geared as there was no let off in the dead part of the stroke. 

I didn't like it at all.

The problem being, the single speed CX bike went really well with the oval.

I'm going to have to get some more AB oval rings dammit


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Since many of you were asking about that recently...

Sram oval red GXP is now available and in stock.

Sram OVAL GXP


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## Trev (Oct 2, 2008)

Just put an order in yesterday morning for one in the Yale Blue, looking forward to givin it a go


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

Just bought the oval ring for my single-speed.......we'll see how this puppy handles in the next 24 hours...........


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## adinpapa (Dec 4, 2007)

Any update on when the RaceFace 34T rings will be ready? 

I need to update my review on the 32T ring. 
I've been racing almost every weekend on it in the Northeast. I have won all of my CAT1 SS races , a race against the CAT1 geared guys in my age group (30-39) last weekend and today got my ass handed to me in the pro class at Pat's Peak in NH. The oval ring has been fantastic on each course. It has allowed me to run a stiffer gear over previous years on the same courses which gives me a huge advantage on some of the flat courses especially. The added traction has enabled me to power up climbs in greasy wet conditions. It seems to be wearing less than standard round rings have. Looking forward to the larger 34T ring. And AB better not go out of business any time soon, because I look forward to using these for many years to come.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

RF 34T will be in additional 2 weeks. We had to speed up 94bcd rings first. Be assured 34T is coming..


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Long awaited Sram Oval 94BCD is in stock!

30 / 32 / 34T all in black.

order now before they are gone from first batch

OVAL 94BCD

these rings are threaded (all sizes) like our 32T 104bcd ones. So it gives even better chainline and is easier to mount


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## Wrath of Kyle (Jun 12, 2006)

I've been using an absolute black 34t oval for about 6 months now, and I like it very much. I like it so much that I bought a second one for my 1x10 geared bike. I'm even thinking of converting my Soma Double Cross road/commuter/touring/cyclocross bike to 1x10 because I'm quite minimalist and I barely use the small ring on it right now.

I have found that the oval is smoother, and it does a better job of getting power down without losing traction. I was riding with a few friends over the weekend and we had a long slog up a sorta steep fire road that was loose. Both guys were on 29ers (RM Instinct and Salsa Spearfish) and would spit gravel out when they got to the downstroke while pedaling. My rear wheel stayed hooked up the entire way, and in theory I have less traction because I have a 27.5 Scalpel. Climbing really steep stuff is also easier in my opinion, because there really isn't a dead spot. With the single speed I can make it up short steep climbs that I couldn't with a normal circle ring. You are always in your power stroke and you can really put all your weight into one pedal and then in an instant the other pedal is in the optimal spot to mash down on that one. I barely have to ratchet the cranks because its easier to spin with an oval ring. Just my 02 cents.

My question for AB is, are there any plans for a 110 or 130 bcd ring for cyclocross or road?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Wrath of Kyle said:


> I've been using an absolute black 34t oval for about 6 months now, and I like it very much. I like it so much that I bought a second one for my 1x10 geared bike. I'm even thinking of converting my Soma Double Cross road/commuter/touring/cyclocross bike to 1x10 because I'm quite minimalist and I barely use the small ring on it right now.
> 
> I have found that the oval is smoother, and it does a better job of getting power down without losing traction. I was riding with a few friends over the weekend and we had a long slog up a sorta steep fire road that was loose. Both guys were on 29ers (RM Instinct and Salsa Spearfish) and would spit gravel out when they got to the downstroke while pedaling. My rear wheel stayed hooked up the entire way, and in theory I have less traction because I have a 27.5 Scalpel. Climbing really steep stuff is also easier in my opinion, because there really isn't a dead spot. With the single speed I can make it up short steep climbs that I couldn't with a normal circle ring. You are always in your power stroke and you can really put all your weight into one pedal and then in an instant the other pedal is in the optimal spot to mash down on that one. I barely have to ratchet the cranks because its easier to spin with an oval ring. Just my 02 cents.
> 
> My question for AB is, are there any plans for a 110 or 130 bcd ring for cyclocross or road?


thanks for the input. 
110/130 rings are in the works now. Soon will be available on website. There is much more products coming as well.


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## Trev (Oct 2, 2008)

Out of curiosity, what is the typical ship time to get to Toronto, Canada?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

In general to North America we aim to deliver under 10days. Sometimes it's longer (winter/Christmas etc). It takes only 3 days to get to continent, but then depends if it stuck in customs for checking or not. If not then 2 more days and delivered. If it stuck for customs checking then it takes 3-6 more days to clear.

We also can offer you DHL for 20$ if someone is in the rush. Just order stuff normally and let us know by email and we will sort it out (and send you a bill for additional shipping cost). Then you are looking 2-3 days to USA and 3-4 Canada.


We are just remaking our page, so this will be offered in drop down menu at checkout in a week or two.

Marcin


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## Trev (Oct 2, 2008)

Thanks for the info. I already ordered my ring, I just really want to start riding it and noticed it has been about 4 days or so since it left Poland and has yet to be claimed in Canada. No worries, likely in customs.


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## Mr.Jason (Jun 19, 2015)

KevinGT said:


> Didn't we try this in 1988 with Biopace?


'84 or '85 I believe... have one on my Trek Roadbike I bought back then. It didn't catch on though.. perhaps Shimano was just too far ahead of the curve. Yes, pun intended. =)

I just went to my basement and cycled my Trek's pedals. It hits it's "long" stroke about 40 degrees below parallel. When the Biopace cranksets came out they failed.. mostly because they were on road bikes. Road runners that can't produce 120 rpm are failures. I agree. I can't do that, but I totally agree. Look back at where the Biopace came from... Greg Lemond was our national hero, and chainrings were round. Shimano changed the game, and now... (literally) 30 years later, Greg Lemond is our national hero, and chainrings are round. Anyone that can beat me on an oval can beat me on a circle. Vice versa. This is 10% gear, 90% player... always has been. The guy that beats you on a 15-pound gift from god will kick your ass again on anything Wal Mart can deliver for under $89. You want an unfair advantage? Turn off your damn computer and go ride. That's it, that's seriously it.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Just to let you know guys. Many asked so Sram oval bb30 in 34T and RF oval in 34T are now order ready on website. Shipping in few days.

Also new oval XTR rings are coming. Likely in 4 weeks - just went into production.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

is the 28t gxp a flat ring? ie no offset?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

no.
All GXP chainrings have 6mm offset. 
All bb30 chainrings on our websire are 0 offset= flat ring.

Reason we do not make 28T in bb30 is that you can youe GXP ring in this case. It creates an excellent chainline for granny rings on the back. Reason why other sizes needs to be flat is because of chainstay. 28T gxp is the only one that will fit short bb30 axle and do not rub on chainstay. All bigger sizes needs to be flat for the short bb30 axle in the crank to be able to clear chainstay.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> no.
> All GXP chainrings have 6mm offset.
> All bb30 chainrings on our websire are 0 offset= flat ring.
> 
> Reason we do not make 28T in bb30 is that you can youe GXP ring in this case. It creates an excellent chainline for granny rings on the back. Reason why other sizes needs to be flat is because of chainstay. 28T gxp is the only one that will fit short bb30 axle and do not rub on chainstay. All bigger sizes needs to be flat for the short bb30 axle in the crank to be able to clear chainstay.


this is how my crank looks like:
- slx double
- rf nw 30t (127mm diameter tooth to tooth)
- 73mm bsa
- one 2.5mm ds spacer
- chainline at 50mm


what oval ring do you recommend for this tight setup? frame is canfield yelli screamy 2014.

i dont mind changing cranks if i had to, just wanted to have an oval ring...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I think this is one of few frames that space for rings is lacking.
To mount the oval on this frame you will need to get RF cinch turbine crank for example and then direct mount oval chainring from us. 

Because our 32T oval will not fit to your setup looking how little space you have left with 30T round ring.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> I think this is one of few frames that space for rings is lacking.
> To mount the oval on this frame you will need to get RF cinch turbine crank for example and then direct mount oval chainring from us.
> 
> Because our 32T oval will not fit to your setup looking how little space you have left with 30T round ring.


yes, i'm actually looking into the rf turbine cinch with ab 30t oval, however, given that the max distance of your 30t oval ring is 134mm, i have to space out the crank outboard on the ds side - this i'm not sure how it will affect (1) the crank itself, (2) shifting up/down towards the larger end of the cogs, and (3) worst is whether it will actually fit.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

ask Canfield guys if they tried to pur RF cinch crank in it. This frame looks a bit strange as it does not allow for a lot of movement with chainrings so it's best to ask frame manufacturer if RF will fit into it.

Marcin


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

@tehan any oval plans for the new shimano bcd? Ie xt m8k?

Sent from my 4013K using Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

spyghost said:


> @tehan any oval plans for the new shimano bcd? Ie xt m8k?
> 
> Sent from my 4013K using Tapatalk


yes. They will be almost at the same time when XT cranks hit the shops.


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## Trev (Oct 2, 2008)

Here's my review of my new oval ring. I've used it in about 3 training rides and a 24km race with about 500m of elevation.

First impression was that it was a good clean looking ring. I got the red annodized one. I removed the spider on my xx1 crank and the chain ring installed perfectly.

I didn't notice any smoother pedaling at max rpm on the flats, if anything it may actually be worse, but it's not a big enough difference to confirm.

It definitely helped reduce spinning the rear tire under efforts. That being said, it is no miracle, if you are climbing a loose/steep enough hill you will still spin. It made out of the saddle efforts let's likely to slip the rear wheel.

All in all I think it was worth the money especially on a ss set up. I'll be running these on any ss bike I have. I'd likely stick with a regular ring for a geared bike although I haven't ran a geared w/ an oval ring. Fwiw I was using a 32-17t set up. The oval rings doesn't make your gearing feel "easier" as it acts like a 34 on the strong point of the crank.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Ride it for a couple of weeks and then stick a round 32 back on for a ride.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Ride it for a couple of weeks and then stick a round 32 back on for a ride.


this is exactly what we ask people to do after some time (2-3 weeks) of riding oval. Then you can see with great clarity what is the difference between round and oval and what we mean with our claims. Customers get used to oval so quick that they sometimes forget how it was like riding round ring. Give it few weeks riding oval so you muscles can fully adapt to different "kind" of effort and then put your old round ring for one ride. You may be well surprised.


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## o_o (Jul 20, 2015)

What's widest oval chain ring for single speed chain (1/8), preferable not narrow wide (which is not needed fo ss and wears faster)

I want to use it in touring bike with internal gear hub, but I am afraid it will wear much faster comparing to 1/8 chainring 1/8 chain combo.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

What would the chainline be using your direct mount oval ring on a SRAM X1 boost 148 crankset? Sram specs- chainline is 49mm normally and 52mm for the boost model. AB specs- chainline is 50mm with the direct mount oval. Is AB offset different than SRAM by 1mm? So it would be 53mm?
I'm singlespeed with a Paul hub and WI freewheel so I'm at 52mm chainline in the rear and I currently run the 34t oval in the outer position on XTR cranks which is perfect. But I'm having upgrade thoughts and would prefer a 32t ring and with a boost crankset I may be able to do that.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

o_o said:


> What's widest oval chain ring for single speed chain (1/8), preferable not narrow wide (which is not needed fo ss and wears faster)
> 
> I want to use it in touring bike with internal gear hub, but I am afraid it will wear much faster comparing to 1/8 chainring 1/8 chain combo.


longer wearing 1/8th chain and chainring is kind of myth. Chain does not stretch but wears out on the pins (hence it is longer with time). 1/8 chains are usually of poor quality and steel, so they are not lasting any longer than good 9spd chain for example.

Same goes for the chainring. "old" 1/8th chainrings are usually made from softer material so they need more material to withstand the strain. If you use top shelf material they can be lot thinner and last longer.

Our chainring is a perfect solution for SS. narrow wide teeth will not cause any more wear than normal ring as your chain works in straight line. So no cross chain work at all.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Stray Mutt said:


> What would the chainline be using your direct mount oval ring on a SRAM X1 boost 148 crankset? Sram specs-  chainline is 49mm normally and 52mm for the boost model. AB specs- chainline is 50mm with the direct mount oval. Is AB offset different than SRAM by 1mm? So it would be 53mm?
> I'm singlespeed with a Paul hub and WI freewheel so I'm at 52mm chainline in the rear and I currently run the 34t oval in the outer position on XTR cranks which is perfect. But I'm having upgrade thoughts and would prefer a 32t ring and with a boost crankset I may be able to do that.


Boost requires chainring to be moved 3mm out-words. So yes you would end up with 53mm with such setup. So you should be able to run 32T in your setup.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Many people asked us about this one so here it is.

New taco is coming for everyone who want some bash protection on direct mount or regular chainrings,but don't like regular bashguard. This will work with all of our oval and round chainrings as long as you have ISCG5 mount in the frame.

ETA - we should have them in stock by Eurobike which is in month time. Chain catchers also coming for those who want that little extra piece of mind.

They are not visible on website yet.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Tehan - what effect would an oval ring have on a single pivot FS bike? Would you say that it would pedal bob worse, better, or no difference? 

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

tehan said:


> Boost requires chainring to be moved 3mm out-words. So yes you would end up with 53mm with such setup. So you should be able to run 32T in your setup.


I've been searching for information on the Boost 148 Sram Cranks and as far as I can tell, the Boost 3mm offset is in the direct mount chainring and not in the crank. I may be wrong but if thats the case then the AB oval GXP direct mount would be compatible with the crankset because the interface is the same but with the same offset as the non-boost chainring it would put the chainline right back at 50mm.
If anyone has more knowledge on this, i'd love to hear it so I can find out the details without spending a bunch of money.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Stray Mutt said:


> I've been searching for information on the Boost 148 Sram Cranks and as far as I can tell, the Boost 3mm offset is in the direct mount chainring and not in the crank. I may be wrong but if thats the case then the AB oval GXP direct mount would be compatible with the crankset because the interface is the same but with the same offset as the non-boost chainring it would put the chainline right back at 50mm.
> If anyone has more knowledge on this, i'd love to hear it so I can find out the details without spending a bunch of money.


Rest assured our GXP oval or round chainrings fit perfectly to Boost 148 and actually improving it. Cranks have same interface etc.

I have worked for Trek before setting up my own company so I know it works


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> Tehan - what effect would an oval ring have on a single pivot FS bike? Would you say that it would pedal bob worse, better, or no difference?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


It will create less bob. This was already mentioned in this thread some time ago I think.
Reason for it is because you are smoothing your pedal stroke with an oval ring. Prime reason why you have bob on single pivot is because the way you pedal. The more you mash at slower cadence the more bob you have with round ring. Optimizing your pedaling with oval solves most of the problems with single pivot design. 
I am sure you will be happy with it.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

tehan said:


> It will create less bob. This was already mentioned in this thread some time ago I think.
> Reason for it is because you are smoothing your pedal stroke with an oval ring. Prime reason why you have bob on single pivot is because the way you pedal. The more you mash at slower cadence the more bob you have with round ring. Optimizing your pedaling with oval solves most of the problems with single pivot design.
> I am sure you will be happy with it.


Thanks tehan. I figured it had already been mentioned but didn't want to wade thru 880+ posts. Already got one on order for my bantam!

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Looks like AbsoluteBlack has some new competition. Just got an e-mail today from OneUp components announcing the availability of what they are calling the "Traction ChainRing".
The info I got from their website says 12% ovality and 115 degrees clocking. No idea how this compares to the AbsoluteBlack but so far I've been really happy with the AbsoluteBlack and with the availability of the rings from within the US, I don't see any reason to switch.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

tehan said:


> this is exactly what we ask people to do after some time (2-3 weeks) of riding oval. Then you can see with great clarity what is the difference between round and oval and what we mean with our claims. Customers get used to oval so quick that they sometimes forget how it was like riding round ring. Give it few weeks riding oval so you muscles can fully adapt to different "kind" of effort and then put your old round ring for one ride. You may be well surprised.


I noticed immediately on the slight uphill grades - I was able to keep churning away while the circular ring I used before might require some serious muscle to crank through the same grades..........good enough........


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

pwu_1 said:


> Looks like AbsoluteBlack has some new competition. Just got an e-mail today from OneUp components announcing the availability of what they are calling the "Traction ChainRing".
> The info I got from their website says 12% ovality and 115 degrees clocking. No idea how this compares to the AbsoluteBlack but so far I've been really happy with the AbsoluteBlack and with the availability of the rings from within the US, I don't see any reason to switch.


Its already posted in their website. cheaper as well 60USD










OneUp Components US - XT M8000 Traction Chainrings

Thing is, they only offer it in this particular tooth count... testing waters imo...

Now shimano's new BCD look attractive to me given that they didn't have to offset the ring inboard to accomodate the ovality, unlike the 104, where the arms will hit the chain as it approaches the 30t region.


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## OneUp (Nov 26, 2013)

spyghost said:


> Its already posted in their website. cheaper as well 60USD


Yup all rings are live and in stock.









Our goal above all else is to offer value and customer service - To that end we:

- Include shims or bolts to maintain chainline as close to 49mm as possible, while saving you having to buy new hardware.
- Offer more major modern standards than anyone and will expand sizes as demand dictates. 
- Are priced competitively

Cheers,
Jon @ OneUp


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Thanks Jon for this information here. We will be glad if you respond to our emails asap.

also our range in next four weeks is expanding by many models so there will be plenty on offer! All will be available just after Eurobike.
That includes cannondale ovals, XT8000 ovals, XTR9000 ovals and many more. They are all in production now in all popular sizes.

Marcin


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Wolf tooth also makes an oval ring. ...and it's made in the U.S.!

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Anyone else feel it's a bit of poor form to advertise other products in a thread paid for by AB?


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

solo-x said:


> Anyone else feel it's a bit of poor form to advertise other products in a thread paid for by AB?


The thread title says Oval rings...nothing about absolute black in particular. How is it in poor taste to compare different oval rings?

Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

8iking VIIking said:


> The thread title says Oval rings...nothing about absolute black in particular. How is it in poor taste to compare different oval rings?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


It took us about 15 months of very hard work to convince most of you here and on other forums/media that our oval is a great idea when done properly. Everyone were laughing. But we knew that at some point with our work we will finally convince you how good our ovals are in mtb as they speak for themselves.

We also knew that there will be a time where our success will be copied at point where most people already know what oval is and how good it is. This time just came now. We feel disappointed that competitors didn't want to help push oval idea where times were hard, "Biopace thinking" was very strong and most were reluctant to try. Instead, they jump on when everything is ready, saying we have great ovals for you now.

None the less we know where our core values are. Our unbeatable teeth profile, excellent - hard to beat durability, impeccable styling, best possible materials and actually engineered ovals per every size separately make our chainrings best ovals on the market you can get. We have spent years honing ovals to the form they are now and we are proud of that they gathered such a massive following now from our loyal customers. We want to thank you for believing in and breaking the myth of Biopace.

Cheap rings are one thing. Standing behind excellent product at a fair price to what we create is another. We always measure for highest possible level of excellence and our rings reflect that.

happy weekend guys
Marcin


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

8iking VIIking said:


> The thread title says Oval rings...nothing about absolute black in particular. How is it in poor taste to compare different oval rings?
> 
> Sent from my SCH-S968C using Tapatalk


The thread was started by the front man for the company selling those rings. I'm pretty confident that for a vendor to advertise in a thread on MTBR, they must pay money. Ergo, if you advertise competitor products in a thread paid for by someone else to advertise their own product, it seems like really poor form. Can you do it? I guess so. It's up to AB to report the posts if they want to. I don't have to report the post to point out that it's really poor taste to do that to someone. (I'm more looking at the OneUp post, as that seems very disrespectful to me)


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

Just read all 36 pages in this thread, and I have just one question; one very important question, tehan. 

When can I get the oval 104bcd in orange?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Bhaalgorn said:


> Just read all 36 pages in this thread, and I have just one question; one very important question, tehan.
> 
> When can I get the oval 104bcd in orange?


haha it must have taken you some hours!.

Yes we will have them in orange this year. We will try to deliver that color in few weeks.

Marcin


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

Maybe I am easy to please, but I have NW rings from RaceFace (30, 32 and 34), Wolftooth (30 and 34), Blackspire (32) and Fire Eye (30). I have a Wolftooth Oval (34) I have expanders from Wolftooth (40 and 42) and AB (40). And now, I just got a 32 Oval from AB. I have two OneUp RAD cages.

ALL of the above are great products and I'd buy any of them again. I really like the tooth profile of Wolftooth and Blackspire, but that's splitting hairs. They all work.

Since OneUp is the first to release a 96BCD Oval for compact cranks...my next purchase will go to them.


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

It did! But I was really curious about this product, and I enjoyed reading your thoughtful and patient replies to all the inquiries. I commend you for taking the time to engage with your consumers, as well as for crafting such a cool product. Kudos, tehan!

I'm almost bummed you said you were bringing out the orange because now I have to wait to place my order. hah! Very cool, though. I'm excited to use this.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Ok, I know many of you already asked so here it is.

Ovals for new XTR and XT are coming in two weeks. Few sizes to choose from as well.

For now in black bur we are quickly going to expand to other colors as well.


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## mongol777 (May 26, 2011)

So can anyone explain me like I am 5 - how new oval rings are different from biopace? 
Will I see same effects if I just try biopace ring first before shelling out $$$?


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

mongol777 said:


> So can anyone explain me like I am 5 - how new oval rings are different from biopace?
> Will I see same effects if I just try biopace ring first before shelling out $$$?


Read the thread - all explained above. Biopace was done wrong.


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## mongol777 (May 26, 2011)

SS Hack said:


> Read the thread - all explained above. Biopace was done wrong.


Yep, reading already - was hoping someone can do quick TLR


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## mongol777 (May 26, 2011)

OK, nevermind - 1st page has pretty much all the info.
I think I will give it a try on one of my rigs.


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Just bought my 2nd oval ring from AB. Going through Jensen, they are $55/ea with free shipping.

Anybody want some SRAM GXP direct mount round AB rings? I have a 32 and a 30.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We have a quite exciting game for you that we start this week and continue to do every week from now on! Just send us your photos of your AB oval ring on the bike.

Every week we pick our favorite customer shots, If we choose yours we'll send you a GIFT CARD!

Just post them on our Facebook timeline or tag ‪#‎absoluteblack‬ and ‪#‎ovalthis‬ on Instagram! and we will look for them.

www.facebook.com/absoluteblack.cc

www.instagram.com/absoluteblack.cc to participate


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Some interesting stuff now

I am just making a series of videos starting this week and will try to put one new every two weeks. This will be about how oval works, how to tension the chain on oval, how to mount it to certain cranks, how to optimize gearing, how to reduce wear on chainring and a LOT more.

So please do me and yourself a favor and subscribe to youtube channel (also share with friends who don't know how ovals work).

I promise I will be more relaxed with next videos haha.
Marcin


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I do have quite a lot of variance in the chain tension but it's a lot less with XT cranks than the old FSA cranks on my Kona Unit.
Newer, straighter cranks seem to be better for some funny reason.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

If you use 104bcd version or any 4 bolt for that matter you may have chainring off center and this causes more variance. Some cranks have their tab holes for bolts bigger than norm so if you are not careful and just mount it without thinking about it, then you may get your chainring slightly off center. This is true with round chainrings as well and experienced users know abut this. 

Direct mount chainrings are a lot better with this as there is very little play on the interface, so chainrings are always centered properly.

So if you do have bigger variance than what is on the video check how your chainring is bolted to the crank.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

32t 104bcd. Fits snuggly into the holes with no wiggle room. I'll do a measure up and check if the holes really are all at spec radius.


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## tuxxdk (Apr 12, 2015)

If I understand correctly, I'll benefit from a 32T oval ring if I like the pace of my regular 32/18 setup but would like some help on the climbs?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

tuxxdk said:


> If I understand correctly, I'll benefit from a 32T oval ring if I like the pace of my regular 32/18 setup but would like some help on the climbs?


Correct. In the video this is my personal bike with 32/18 as well (I use that fixed plate tensioner because frame is not "singlespeed" specific). It will feel easier on the climbs but on flat and downhill you will not see any difference compared to your current setup. This is how the oval work - helps on climbs and everywhere else you feel like regular round ring.


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## tuxxdk (Apr 12, 2015)

tehan said:


> Correct. In the video this is my personal bike with 32/18 as well (I use that fixed plate tensioner because frame is not "singlespeed" specific). It will feel easier on the climbs but on flat and downhill you will not see any difference compared to your current setup. This is how the oval work - helps on climbs and everywhere else you feel like regular round ring.


It all sounds awesome to me. I'm positive I'll be getting one of your rings when the one I have now is due. I'm on a budget, so I cant allow to afford it for the fun of it.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I would love to buy a 104 bcd Absolute Black 32t ring but BTI is out of stock.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

mack_turtle said:


> I would love to buy a 104 bcd Absolute Black 32t ring but BTI is out of stock.


Check universalcycles.com. Looks like they have 1 in black available


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I work in a bie shop, so it would be silly for me to pay retail for one. I will have to wait until my distro has them again. I was just hoping to send a message that they are not keeping up with demand.


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## avatar4281 (Nov 6, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> I would love to buy a 104 bcd Absolute Black 32t ring but BTI is out of stock.


LOL I bought it. Just put it on yesterday. 
Notes so far: 
-Very good quality. I love that you use double (standard size 5.8mm) chainring bolts, and the chainring is threaded. Why doesn't anyone else do this?

-I think the OP exaggerated how "little" change in chain tension there is from high to low spot. It's not a deal breaker, but perhaps you should go for the larger size rings like 34/20 instead of 32/18. I like lots of clearance though, so I make my drivetrain as small as possible. The fact that it is narrow/wide is a big plus.

-I haven't noticed a huge difference from round, but like it so far. Tried it with 20t cog at first, but today I'm putting on the AB 18t cog.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

OK. We have finally got there with our new website.

Now XT m8000 oval, XTR m9000 oval and Cannondale hollowgram oval rings are all ready to order.

Absoluteblack - OVAL XT M8000
Absoluteblack - OVAL XTR M9000
Absoluteblack - Cannondale OVAL DM


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Forgot Did I mention 15% off till this Thursday only?

TYPE: #absoluteblack into Coupon code box to get 15% off

If you will have any problems with payments or site not working please send us an email!


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## Wrath of Kyle (Jun 12, 2006)

Any way I could pre-order 2 110bcd oval rings for my cyclocross bike and commuter bike and get 15% off? And one of the N/W rear cogs. I've got AB ovals on both my mtn bikes, I'm patiently waiting to convert both my road bikes.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

By Monday I hope to add them to the page. If not then we will figure something out.


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## nbicho (Nov 6, 2014)

Hello, I have a question regarding oval ring sizes. I'm using a 11s XTR with 36T+26T round rings, but almost don't use the smaller one and I use my lowest cog a lot on downhill and sometimes on flat. I want to change to 1x11 setup and I'm thinking on an oval ring for it. Since AB doesn't have 36T, will the 34T be insufficient for downhill and flat? Will I overspin? Thank you


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

nbicho said:


> Hello, I have a question regarding oval ring sizes. I'm using a 11s XTR with 36T+26T round rings, but almost don't use the smaller one and I use my lowest cog a lot on downhill and sometimes on flat. I want to change to 1x11 setup and I'm thinking on an oval ring for it. Since AB doesn't have 36T, will the 34T be insufficient for downhill and flat? Will I overspin? Thank you


to be completely honest if you spin out already 36T an ride most of the time on 11/13/15 cogs then it means you would need ideally 36T oval or even 38T.

While we may not offer this size in XTR crank we will however in Sram direct mount version as those sizes are already smallest in CX sport. So you could use 36T or 38T direct mount ring in oval for Sram crank. 
This would also look 10x better than 36T on xtr.

We will have these rings on website in 2 weeks. Just when we come back from Eurobike.


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## nbicho (Nov 6, 2014)

tehan said:


> to be completely honest if you spin out already 36T an ride most of the time on 11/13/15 cogs then it means you would need ideally 36T oval or even 38T.
> 
> While we may not offer this size in XTR crank we will however in Sram direct mount version as those sizes are already smallest in CX sport. So you could use 36T or 38T direct mount ring in oval for Sram crank.
> This would also look 10x better than 36T on xtr.
> ...


I don't overspin that much with 36T, I'm afraid I will with 34T oval ring, that's why I ask.
Ok, I'll keep an eye on your site.
Thank you

Enviado do meu HTC One M9 através de Tapatalk


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## Sandrenseren (Dec 29, 2011)

tehan said:


> This is what we keep hearing from our singlespeed friends and customers. Oval rings make you going quicker and easier especially on singlespeed where you have low rpm's while riding uphills out of the saddle.
> 
> Is this actually true for you? Well, mathematical thinking tell so. When your legs are in dead spot you have a smaller radius to overcome. When your legs are in slightly below horizontal position you have most power there, so radius of the ring is biggest. This in terms equal to greater speed, so your legs can go easier to a dead spot again where the radius is smaller(so legs move quicker again). repeat.


Since the topic "oval rings - unfair advantage?" keeps hovering on the first page, I'll stick my neck out and come up with a completely unscientific, undocumented reply.. 

No, they don't give an unfair advantage.

How can I know that for sure, having never tested one, never done the math and so on? Simple: some of the pro riders in Tour de France, use oval rings and others don't. If oval rings gave an advantage then either all the pro riders would be using them or they would be banned for giving exactly an unfair advantage. The amount of time and money the pro teams spend trying to get an advantage simply rules out that oval rings gives an advantage - they would all have them if it were true.



tehan said:


> Sounds complicated, but in fact feels more natural than round ring.


Now that sounds a lot more plausible. It also explains the 37 pages of people loving their oval rings and why some pro riders use ovals and others don't - some pro's prefer the feel of oval rings over round rings and vice versa.

So I don't buy into the theory that ovals gives an actual advantage, but I do believe that a lot of people enjoy the feel of an oval over a round ring.

Let the flaming commence..


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Ah ....the PROS
You don't take one very important thing into account. Sponsorships.

Do you honestly believe that these days everyone rides what they want in Pro peloton? Do you believe tennis star or football/basketball/road/mtb/name it star that this hair product or shaving cream (whatever) is best for you when they speak in an advert? (I know, some do and this is scary)

Sram and Shimano do not have oval rings in the pipe (yet). Shimano burnt it quite badly with Biopace. These two giants are the main sponsors of the groupsets everyone use. They also have very complicated sponsorship agreements in place that if you try to use other products they will drop you. (these 2 companies are one of these where you come to them and not other way round)

Best example is Osymetric. Some riders can go away with it and then rings are blacked out as they can't show the name.

What you also don't know is that 80% of pro peleton have small oval ring in place for hilly stages. But you can't see it as it is well masked by big ring. 

So how do you know no one rides them?
If you can't see it, it does not mean it is not there.



We rely on tens of thousands of real customers opinions and not on paid sponsor riders who will tell you what you want to hear. This in my eyes is better and also I feel better about it personally as I think it is more ethic.

If the product is good people talk about it. This matters most. We deliver what it says on the tin. If we would not, then this topic would not be 37 pages long, not to mention other forums.

hope it is more clear now. Looking at sponsored riders is not best thing to do in any sport. They use what they have been given - it is their Job. Not hobby. People often forget about this small niuance


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Running a round 34t on my 26" rigid at the moment and noticing the traction breaking loose on steep climbs at about 4-5 o'clock in the stroke. I'm having to use a lot more body english to keep traction than with the 34t oval.
Thank god CX season is over and I can swap the oval ring back onto the MTB!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Just ordered another 32, 34 & 36 in racing red.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

tehan said:


> We rely on tens of thousands of real customers opinions and not on paid sponsor riders who will tell you what you want to hear. This in my eyes is better and also I feel better about it personally as I think it is more ethic.
> 
> If the product is good people talk about it. This matters most. We deliver what it says on the tin. If we would not, then this topic would not be 37 pages long, not to mention other forums.
> 
> hope it is more clear now. Looking at sponsored riders is not best thing to do in any sport. They use what they have been given - it is their Job. Not hobby. People often forget about this small niuance


This! to add, having sponsoring and ads raises the price of any component in the market even if that particular piece s*cks.

btw, absolute black's oval rings are top notch and so does their customer support! i'd buy another one once i get a cinch crank or an m8k crank (still deciding which one). in any industry, what i firmly believe in is the best ad any manufacturer or service provider can have is the referral of experienced clients and/or customers. this doesn't involve any amount of $$$, but just plain good experience.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

1. I have a 32/20 SS setup and 32/11-34 nine-speed setup when I feel the need for gears. I rarely use the 34t cog in the back. should I get a 32t ring or a 34t ring?

2. any idea when BTI will have 32t oval rings in stock again?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Do you often use the 32/11?

I'd go for the 32 myself.


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## Sandrenseren (Dec 29, 2011)

tehan said:


> Ah ....the PROS
> You don't take one very important thing into account. Sponsorships.
> 
> Do you honestly believe that these days everyone rides what they want in Pro peloton? Do you believe tennis star or football/basketball/road/mtb/name it star that this hair product or shaving cream (whatever) is best for you when they speak in an advert? (I know, some do and this is scary)


I'm not talking about hair products, I'm talking about tools to keep pro athletes competitive. Those shark skin swim suits were developed for the pro swimmers to give them an edge. Carbon fiber tennis rackets for the tennis pros. Carbon fiber bikes for the bike pros. The pro athletes tends to drive development when it comes to sporting equipment and the sponsor providing the equipment is very focused on developing the very best.



tehan said:


> Sram and Shimano do not have oval rings in the pipe (yet). Shimano burnt it quite badly with Biopace. These two giants are the main sponsors of the groupsets everyone use. They also have very complicated sponsorship agreements in place that if you try to use other products they will drop you. (these 2 companies are one of these where you come to them and not other way round)
> 
> Best example is Osymetric. Some riders can go away with it and then rings are blacked out as they can't show the name.
> 
> What you also don't know is that 80% of pro peleton have small oval ring in place for hilly stages. But you can't see it as it is well masked by big ring.


That doesn't add up, Scram and Shimano not having oval rings, yet 80% of the peleton uses ovals anyway.



tehan said:


> So how do you know no one rides them?
> If you can't see it, it does not mean it is not there.


I didn't say no one rides them, I said some do and some don't.



tehan said:


> We rely on tens of thousands of real customers opinions and not on paid sponsor riders who will tell you what you want to hear. This in my eyes is better and also I feel better about it personally as I think it is more ethic.
> 
> If the product is good people talk about it. This matters most. We deliver what it says on the tin. If we would not, then this topic would not be 37 pages long, not to mention other forums.


Once again I don't doubt that a lot of people love your product, that's excellent for a business like yours. But people liking your product doesn't really prove that it gives an actual advantage, except for the customers gut feeling. Music sounds better when I have a glass of red wine in my hand, but that doesn't prove that holding a glass does something beneficial to the acoustics.



tehan said:


> hope it is more clear now. Looking at sponsored riders is not best thing to do in any sport. They use what they have been given - it is their Job. Not hobby. People often forget about this small niuance


And the sponsors main interest is to sponsor a winning athlete so if the equipment is sub par do you really think they keep from improving it?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

From what I see regarding "Pro" bikes is that Pros are going to ride what they want. Teams will use whatever they think will give them the most advantages. I've seen plenty of bikes that are not sponsored by Rotor running Q-Rings with the logo blacked out. I've seen Rotor sponsored riders running Osymetric rings (David Millar). Same at Paris Roubaix. No teams are sponsored by FMB...and yet you'll find most teams running them. Some black out the logo with a marker...some put the name of the tires they are supposed to run over the FMB logo. Pros and their teams are all about winning...they will use whatever they think will give them an edge...sponsored or not.


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

Using Sandrenseren logic, it tells me that since Justin Bieber has more views on Youtube, all other musicians should only play what he plays because it is impossible to make better music than him. I feel you brother... LONG LIVE BIEBER!


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## tuxxdk (Apr 12, 2015)

I don't get it... what's wrong with Justin Bieber???


.
.
.
.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Just ordered another 32, 34 & 36 in racing red.


Arrived today.
9 days from Poland to New Zealand.
Not too shabby.


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## saddle pimp (Apr 29, 2010)

planning to get another oval ring, but in 28 teeth 64mm bcd. will mount it in a XT 3x crank... do you have pictures of it mounted? I am worried it will not look good without a bash guard??? pictures would help thanks


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Tehan, I ordered your 36t 104BCD oval from Chainreaction about 3 weeks ago (will be my 3rd) and the availability date keeps getting pushed back (twice, now 9/11). Any idea when I might hope to see this? Thanks, you guys are doing great work!


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

Just put a 34t oval on my back up SS which is currently running gears. I don't notice the oval-ness as much as I noticed the lack of chain drops. Instead of 1-2 chain drops/mile I did a 9 mile ride on the roughest trails I have easy access to and it didn't drop the chain once.


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## tuxxdk (Apr 12, 2015)

_I wonder how you even drop a chain in the first place running SS?? Not even a nuclear-blast would knock a properly tensioned chain off.. (well it would, among other things  )

*Disregard my ignorant post! I didn't read the post properly before typing. Sorry.*
_


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

tuxxdk said:


> I wonder how you even drop a chain in the first place running SS?? Not even a nuclear-blast would knock a properly tensioned chain off.. (well it would, among other things  )


Because it's currently running gears?


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## tuxxdk (Apr 12, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> Because it's currently running gears?


**** me... sorry!!! Yeah, I just saw the SS-part and missed the "running gears" ... dammit.

Move along, nothing to see


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

Anyone else have any issue with chain tension (SS w/AB oval)? 

Mine is snug in the wide part of the ring and has over an inch (probably closer to 1.5) of slop in the narrow part. It's tight when either crank arms passes the the "TDC" area, and pretty loose everywhere else. Nothing at all like Marcin's video.

I've rotated it 180 degress and same thing. And it's the same way on two different cranks/ BBs. I tried to ignore it...but it's bugging me. 

I fell like any tighter and I'll be damaging my bearings and any looser and I'll be gouging my chainstays or dropping my chain.

Too narrow a margin for me.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

dledinger said:


> Anyone else have any issue with chain tension (SS w/AB oval)?
> 
> Mine is snug in the wide part of the ring and has over an inch (probably closer to 1.5) of slop in the narrow part. It's tight when either crank arms passes the the "TDC" area, and pretty loose everywhere else. Nothing at all like Marcin's video.


What size ring?


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

Sandrenseren said:


> How can I know that for sure, having never tested one, never done the math and so on? Simple: some of the pro riders in Tour de France, use oval rings and others don't. If oval rings gave an advantage then either all the pro riders would be using them or they would be banned for giving exactly an unfair advantage.


I'd like to point out that road biking with gears (as in your example) is different from singlespeed mountainbiking, which is the topic here. The whole claim was "unfair advantage in singlespeed".

Oval rings help utilize less efficient cadences when gears can't be changed at the flick of a switch on the handlebar. They also help keep a more even drive to the rear wheel so it doesn't slip when climbing a loose hill in the wrong gear. None of these advantages would be present in road biking with gears.

Whether or not the advantage is unfair, that might be a bit of an exaggeration. But the advantage is definitely there in our little niche.


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

NordieBoy said:


> What size ring?


It's a 32.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

dledinger said:


> Anyone else have any issue with chain tension (SS w/AB oval)?
> 
> Mine is snug in the wide part of the ring and has over an inch (probably closer to 1.5) of slop in the narrow part. It's tight when either crank arms passes the the "TDC" area, and pretty loose everywhere else. Nothing at all like Marcin's video.
> 
> ...


Maybe it is mounted wrong? I've got the spiderless version and I run my chain pretty loose and it only goes up and down like .5". I'm not at worried about it dropping.


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

I can't imagine what could be wrong. I like the oval....but not enough to buy a third crankset for the bike.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Maybe post some images. It seems not typical.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'll measure up how much slop is in my 32/21 104bcd setup.


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

Ok...I'll shoot a quick video tomorrow. Just saying, with built in chain ring nuts there's not much margin for error with the install.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I found the opposite - I was surprised how little up and down there was.


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

You know what's funny...my geared bike shows virtually no derailleur movement. That's a Wolftooth oval, however.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

dledinger said:


> You know what's funny...my geared bike shows virtually no derailleur movement. That's a Wolftooth oval, however.


On my Stumpy hard tail 1x10 the Zee derailleur showed bugger all movement.
On the single speed with the same chain ring there's quite a bit of slack. I've never dropped a chain though.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi guys,
If some of you have bigger differences than normal then again watch that video how I tension the oval. 
The only thing I may think of is that you may use worn chain and try to tension it... this will not work well obviously with new chainring.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

On another note

This review is a MUST Read! if you think about OVAL but you are not convinced yet.
BikeJames is a quite a figure and I am flattered with such good write up out of the blue.

http://www.bikejames.com/strength/why-ive-switched-to-an-oval-chainring/

It starts with " I'll admit that I wanted to hate it...."

and half page later

" That was a few weeks ago and I've still got the oval chainring on my bike. "


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

dledinger said:


> I can't imagine what could be wrong. I like the oval....but not enough to buy a third crankset for the bike.


No issue here. 4 different oval rings, 2 different cranks, 2 different frames, all tension perfectly fine. Shoot a vid of the issue please?


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

Thanks for all the input. I took it all apart last night, cleaned the chain, chainring, and cog....then put it all back together. It's FAR better now. Still has me stumped, but all seems well enough. There must be just enough play in the system somewhere allow it to run out of round if not installed perfectly. 

For what it's worth.....it's all new components. Chain, chainring and cog all have less than 100 miles. I don't think the cleaning did anything because it's never been too dirty, but somewhere something definitely aligned better.

Thanks for all the input.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

I've recently switched back to the AB oval after reverting back to a round ring for a good long while. Went up the LBS and found out an 8 speed chain (same one Trek puts on the superfly SS which also runs a NW ring) keeps both the AB ring and my rear cog in happy unison. I was out of town over the holiday visiting family and got to ride some new trails, fairly technical and slam full of both kitty litter gravel and larger loose rock, and roots all over a hard packed base. I was honestly shocked at how many of those climbs I clawed my way up, the only ones I couldn't make were the ones I stalled out on physically. I got some minor tire slip here and there, but nothing like a round ring. I've now ridden both for a lot of miles, and I think for the SS it'll be oval from here on out.


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

I found chain tension to vary slightly more than I expected, but I had high hopes. In any case I haven't had any problems and I've run it fixed too. 

Here's a tidbit if you worry that the tight part is too tight: put a little pressure on the front pedal and check if the bottom part of the chain has some slack. If it does, your bearings are safe, the chain is not too tight.


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

Any update on the orange 104bcd 32T? Looking to order in the next month, so just wondering if I should wait a bit longer.


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## nbicho (Nov 6, 2014)

Rode my AB 34T oval chainring only once, but I must say, so far I'm positively impressed 

Enviado do meu HTC One M9 através de Tapatalk


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

What is more common; 32T or 34T?


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## nbicho (Nov 6, 2014)

Bhaalgorn said:


> What is more common; 32T or 34T?


Well, since I have a 27,5" bike, I find the 34T more suitable to me. I know some guys with 29" bikes that use the 32T chainrings. It depends also on your cassettes range. You'll have to find out which one suits you better.

Enviado do meu HTC One M9 através de Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

nbicho said:


> Well, since I have a 27,5" bike, I find the 34T more suitable to me. I know some guys with 29" bikes that use the 32T chainrings. It depends also on your cassettes range. You'll have to find out which one suits you better.
> 
> Enviado do meu HTC One M9 através de Tapatalk


Cassettes range?


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## nbicho (Nov 6, 2014)

NordieBoy said:


> Cassettes range?


ATM I have a XTR M9000 cassette, 11s 11-40. I have to ride with it a few more times, but I believe it will not be enough and have to switch to a SRAM cassette 11s 10-42

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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

it's better to use smaller ring than chainging the cassette. If 34T is too big for you with 11-40 then better is to get 32T and stick with this cassette. It will be better for yor drivetrain as well as you will not be using granny cogs that often so they will wear less.


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## nbicho (Nov 6, 2014)

tehan said:


> it's better to use smaller ring than chainging the cassette. If 34T is too big for you with 11-40 then better is to get 32T and stick with this cassette. It will be better for yor drivetrain as well as you will not be using granny cogs that often so they will wear less.


The thing is that I feel I need more at both ends, the big cog might not be big enough as well as the small seems not small enough... Have to ride a couple times more, since only rode once with this set. This week, the weather around here is real bad, hope it gets better on the weekend to clear some doubts...
Thank you for your support

Enviado do meu HTC One M9 através de Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Makes sense now. Don't rush the changes. You will find after more rides that you are stronger and you may find that this setup is great for you.

Ride for about a month and then decide if you need more range. Most people will find that they adapt quickly and there is no need for more gears. But you need to adapt first to your new setup. So ride more and don't think about changes for now.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

nbicho said:


> ATM I have a XTR M9000 cassette, 11s 11-40. I have to ride with it a few more times, but I believe it will not be enough and have to switch to a SRAM cassette 11s 10-42
> 
> Enviado do meu HTC One M9 através de Tapatalk


You won't get much sympathy here in the single speed forum where the expected response is usually "what do you need gears for? Just run 32/18".

I was running 32 oval/11-36 no problem and the 40&42t extenders only lasted a while before I kept going back to 11-36. Now that bike is running 29- wheels, it's got a 34t oval front.


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Ntmboy said:


> Tehan, I ordered your 36t 104BCD oval from Chainreaction about 3 weeks ago (will be my 3rd) and the availability date keeps getting pushed back (twice, now 9/11). Any idea when I might hope to see this? Thanks, you guys are doing great work!


Tehan,

Availability now pushed to 9/30. If you are unable to fill chainreactioncycles.com orders, please let me know and I'll cancel the order. Thanks.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We will shortly have a full instructional movie how to properly pick a chainrings size. So keep watching that space in about a week.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Anybody else get a clicking from the ring and 11spd chain when the pedal is at 3-4 o'clock when putting down the power? I have this going on and with WT regular ring, it's not there... REALLY F'N ANNOYING!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> Anybody else get a clicking from the ring and 11spd chain when the pedal is at 3-4 o'clock when putting down the power? I have this going on and with WT regular ring, it's not there... REALLY F'N ANNOYING!


that is 99% chain issue. Or you have used old chain with new ring or chain is out of spec (old KMC for example). This will only happen in those 2 cases. This is why we point on page all the time that one should use new chain with new ring.

let me know what you have and if it was new from the start (fresh from box, not 200km new


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

tehan said:


> that is 99% chain issue. Or you have used old chain with new ring or chain is out of spec (old KMC for example). This will only happen in those 2 cases. This is why we point on page all the time that one should use new chain with new ring.
> 
> let me know what you have and if it was new from the start (fresh from box, not 200km new


Chain was brand new out of the box Sram 11 spd, but the ring probably has 200-300 miles on it.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

It will go away then after 2-3 rides. Most probably get some small noises as parts needs to bed in together again. If both are new there is no noise at all. But if one is already used then it has to bed in again.


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Ntmboy said:


> Tehan, I ordered your 36t 104BCD oval from Chainreaction about 3 weeks ago (will be my 3rd) and the availability date keeps getting pushed back (twice, now 9/11). Any idea when I might hope to see this? Thanks, you guys are doing great work!





Ntmboy said:


> Tehan,
> 
> Availability now pushed to 9/30. If you are unable to fill chainreactioncycles.com orders, please let me know and I'll cancel the order. Thanks.


Tehan,

Just got my chainring in the mail. Big thanks for looking into this for me and getting the ball rolling! You guys are the best!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

glad to hear that. I am sure you will enjoy it. Please let others know in some time how you feel about your new ring.


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## SleepeRst (Nov 30, 2011)

*Am I the only one?*

Hello,

I've been riding the absolute black oval chain ring for probably almost a year now. It was the first MTB chain ring released I believe, 32T equivalent, paired to an 18T in the rear, single speed.

While I love the chain ring there is a slight issue I have always had that's never gone away.

My bike is a 29er Misfit Dissent. Every now and then when i'm cranking along and I get into a hard lean with my bike going through turns, while still pedaling, the chain ring and chain will make a very loud "TWANG". This doesn't happen all the time, very infrequently, and I can not replicate it on the spot, but I know it only happens in a hard lean going around corners while pedaling.

My theory is that when you are in a hard lean and continue to pedal and when the chain ring gets to it's least tensioned area, the chain has a considerable amount of slack, especially side to side. Due to leaning the bike way over the chain will want to sag towards the ground, which naturally brings the chain out of alignment with the chain ring. Only in this circumstance does it seem that sometimes the teeth of the chain ring will slightly grab the side chain enough to produce an audible sound, and I can also feel it slightly grab.

For reference my chain is tensioned exactly as this video,





I really can't be the only one who experiences this problem. The chain has remained undamaged, but I fear one day the chain might fully grab and snap.

Anyone?


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## WarPigs (Dec 21, 2005)

I didnt read the entire thread, but will there be a belt version of the oval ring?


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## David Charles Segen (Oct 11, 2015)

Isn't the point to be competitive? think from the engineers perspective for wanting to keep making bike better... whats not to love... this is my new ring coming to mountain bikes soon, sooner if people get riled up about it

Karbun Five : Services


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'd say it's very unlikely as belts are very picky about tension.


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## Raybum (Apr 16, 2009)

Thinking about running 2 AB rings in dinglespeed mode.... Any reason to believe that wouldn't work? (32x21 plus 34x19)


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Raybum said:


> Thinking about running 2 AB rings in dinglespeed mode.... Any reason to believe that wouldn't work? (32x21 plus 34x19)


there will be a mounting problem. 32t has build in standoffs and 34T is meant to be mounted in same position as 32T. So if you mount 32T on the inner position and 34T on the outer in general tha would not be an issue but 34T has then 10mm holes for female bots, but 32T has already those build in so you can only use 8mm bolts to mount it. Therefore 34T will be loose on the mounting holes.

We have some customers who do it on geared bikes. Like 34 for getting to trails and 28T for 64bcd for riding on the trails. But these rings are mounted to 2 different bcd's like normal 2X crank.


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## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

What is the preferred format for cranks for a 30T oval ring?

Both my Niner Air 9 Carbon and my Canyon SLX suffers with the 32T oval ring with 104 BCD cranks. Both rings touches the frame - the Niner just barely, so I think I'll continue using it as it is:








but the Canyon is unrideable with it:









Since I ruined my ZEE cranks (apparently the bolt at the end of the axle is NOT expendable), I'm in the marked for a new crank.

I have a used X9 crank lying around. Is that still valid, or would it make more sense to jump onto the new Shimano 96 BCD standard? Do people expect that to become the new standard?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

that is indeed close.

32T in 104bcd has a 2mm standoffs and threaded holes from technical reasons. A part of this chainring is essentially a 30T. And as most of you know 30T on 104bcd is no go unless you offset it a bit to clear the sticking crnak tabs as at this point crank tabs are higher than bottom of teeth in 30T ring. so actually you get around 48mm chainline. While it is an excellent chainlne for everyone, for some it makes a problem like you just showed. It is very rare thing but happens.

Good news is that if you get for example Rf turbine cinch crank you will get 50mm chainline with our direct mount chainring and this will give you 2mm clearance you need even with 32t chainring. With 30t chainring the clearance will be even bigger of course.
So in this case I recommend RF cinch crank.

Regards 96assymetric bcd on new XT M8000. I think this will stay for a while. This is a very good bcd as it can accommodate even 30T in oval with no big problem. But in your case it will not be ideal as we also do standoffs for that crank to put chainline closer to 49mm. 
You need a chainline close to 50-51mm to have clearance. 

Marcin


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## FASTFAT (Oct 22, 2015)

KevinGT said:


> Didn't we try this in 1988 with Biopace?


yes we did...lol..how soon people forget...i swapped mine through many frames till they wouldn't fit the next one ;-(

back to circles...i do feel the dead spot at low gearing on tdc


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

SleepeRst said:


> Hello,
> 
> I've been riding the absolute black oval chain ring for probably almost a year now. It was the first MTB chain ring released I believe, 32T equivalent, paired to an 18T in the rear, single speed.
> 
> ...


Which brand of sprocket are you using at the rear?


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## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

tehan said:


> Good news is that if you get for example Rf turbine cinch crank you will get 50mm chainline with our direct mount chainring and this will give you 2mm clearance you need even with 32t chainring. With 30t chainring the clearance will be even bigger of course.
> So in this case I recommend RF cinch crank.


Ok, thanks for your reply. What about the used X9 cranks I already have? Are they just as good? The RF cranks are a bit expensive, if I have to buy for two bikes. I could go down to 28T on both my bikes if that would help anything?


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## 612 (Oct 23, 2015)

tehan said:


> They do not produce more power I have never claimed that they do. They just make you quicker by clever distribution of your energy.
> 
> Logic here is very basic and simple so everyone can understand it.
> 
> ...


It makes sense that you want an easier gear in your dead spot but isn't that the same place as your strongest spot on your opposite leg??


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

612 said:


> It makes sense that you want an easier gear in your dead spot but isn't that the same place as your strongest spot on your opposite leg??


No. Not even close.


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## 612 (Oct 23, 2015)

Stevob said:


> No. Not even close.


Yeah I watched some videos on it and quickly realized how wrong I was


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We are looking for Brand Ambassadors for 2016! 
Join the exclusive Absoluteblack Brand Ambassador Program by clicking the link:

absoluteBLACK | Ambassador program

If you know someone who may be interested - SHARE this information.

We are looking for people around the World, so don't be shy

We are looking for athletes, enthusiasts and bike bloggers who have many exciting rides planned, are influential within their local or regional cycling community and who have the ability to write, film or capture images along the way.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

tehan said:


> Word on BETD.
> In terms of Oval rings it is absolutely crucial to get the clocking right.


I have SRAM X9 direct mount. I would guess that getting the clocking right with direct mount is inbuilt in the CR. Is that correct?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

these will be good too.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

This is how to find and cut correct chain length for your 1X drivetrain with Oval or round ring.

We get hundreds of questions about this and decided to make a short video with Bike Journalist- Justin Loretz

Please share with everyone who may need it That is all your friends with 1X drivetrain.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

Nice vid Tehan. Don't think I'd perform that task in a white shirt though.


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## kgraham11 (Jan 29, 2005)

teamdicky said:


> Also interested in a Cinch ring... being that the new Turbine cranks are going to the Cinch system, it seems like a good base to cover.
> 
> I've had experience with oval before... kinda liked it, but Rotor was too $$ for my blood based on annual replacement.


Cinch ovals now avail.

absoluteBLACK | RaceFace OVAL chainring


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

One day I'll get one of these for my SS. 

Tehan, the way I interpret the effect is that I can put the maximum torque down using 34T with the pedalling frequency (cadence) of a 32T ring. Would you agree?


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

The cadence remains the same. 
You just go over the dead spots more easily, and at the power spots you push a bit more. 

The difference is so subtle it's easy to forget. You get used to it within a very short time of riding. It's only +/-2 teeth virtually, and the change is gradual during a quarter turn. 

Even when I climb uphill I only notice that it happens more easily: I maintain traction and a movement of cranks without stalling. No kind of "now the cranks are moving like this or that" is apparent. Just the result.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Saul Lumikko said:


> No kind of "now the cranks are moving like this or that" is apparent. Just the result.


It's funny, but if I go a week on my non-oval bikes, when I first switch back to the oval bike I will feel like I'm being pulled uphill on climbs. That feeling doesn't last for very long unfortunately, but it's cool.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

I'm running oval chain rings on every MTB in the family fleet. I'm a believer :thumbsup:


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## evenslower (Sep 26, 2005)

I've got a few rides on my absolute black 34 and I agree with Saul, the difference is subtle but its definitely there. First ride I rode to the trailhead from home so there was 5 miles of hilly road to start and end the ride to see if I noticed any difference from my old setup. Noticed it on the first climb out of the neighborhood, just felt smoother. Same thing once the pavement turned to dirt, seemed smoother so I'm guessing more efficient which I'm hoping means a little faster/fresher at the end of long rides. Not a revolutionary difference but definitely a positive one. 

I've ridden another brand's oval ring on a buddy's 1x setup a couple of times and it always felt odd. Like the BB or a pedal were loose. That one has adjustable timing and maybe the timing was off but it didn't jive with me. 

I'm sold, gonna order another for my 1x10.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

Tehan. What size chain do you recommend with these rings. Can I run 1/2 X 1/8?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

1/8" is obsolete and not recommended. These rings work with modern chains like 9 and 10 speeds. The manufacturer recommendation may be found earlier in this thread but it definitely isn't 1/8".


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

Saul Lumikko said:


> 1/8" is obsolete and not recommended. These rings work with modern chains like 9 and 10 speeds. The manufacturer recommendation may be found earlier in this thread but it definitely isn't 1/8".


I broke the 1/8 on a climb yesterday, and have spare 10 speed chains, so 10 speed it will be to replace. New chainring still in the mail anyway. Will wait until it arrives.

I do however still run 1/8 on my road fixed gear. That will stay as it is new & not stretched. Plenty of of these available to buy , obsolete or not. Why not recommended?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

dwt said:


> I broke the 1/8 on a climb yesterday, and have spare 10 speed chains, so 10 speed it will be to replace. New chainring still in the mail anyway. Will wait until it arrives.
> 
> I do however still run 1/8 on my road fixed gear. That will stay as it is new & not stretched. Plenty of of these available to buy , obsolete or not. Why not recommended?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I can imagine that the reason 1/8" chains aren't recommended is that due to the width between the side plates, it will not sit flush in the narrow/wide design of the teeth, which puts more pressure from the chain's rollers on the teeth, increasing wear rates dramatically. It will also be much noisier (I speak from experience running 1/8" chains on 10sp chainrings).

Take the advice or not. Your call. Obviously.


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Ntmboy said:


> Tehan,
> 
> Just got my chainring in the mail. Big thanks for looking into this for me and getting the ball rolling! You guys are the best!





tehan said:


> glad to hear that. I am sure you will enjoy it. Please let others know in some time how you feel about your new ring.


I've been a believer for quite a while. AB34/20 on my ss; AB28/36/11-40 on by bikepacking rig.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

dwt said:


> I broke the 1/8 on a climb yesterday, and have spare 10 speed chains, so 10 speed it will be to replace. New chainring still in the mail anyway. Will wait until it arrives.
> 
> I do however still run 1/8 on my road fixed gear. That will stay as it is new & not stretched. Plenty of of these available to buy , obsolete or not. Why not recommended?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The rings are designed for 3/32 chains - it's that simple. 1/8 is the wrong size and no stronger and perhaps weaker. Just spend $9 and get a SRAM 8 speed chain.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

Stevob said:


> I can imagine that the reason 1/8" chains aren't recommended is that due to the width between the side plates, it will not sit flush in the narrow/wide design of the teeth, which puts more pressure from the chain's rollers on the teeth, increasing wear rates dramatically. It will also be much noisier (I speak from experience running 1/8" chains on 10sp chainrings).
> 
> Take the advice or not. Your call. Obviously.


Point taken. Do not want to jeopardize my AB ovals, which are such nice pieces of machinery.

Rings on my fixie, in contrast. are as cheap as the 1/8" chains. They belong together. No problem there.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Carbonegear (Mar 3, 2015)

*I think you are correct*

I think that it is a combination of things including lean, flex and chain tension. On my bike that I have full control of my dropouts i.e. Paragon sliders I made the tight spot tight- not binding but tight. This has only twanged once. The second bike I can't tension that presicely and that bike does it more often. I have yet to break or damage a chain this way. I think I'll continue trying to get it tighter at the tight spot which seems to work. I also run an 8 speed Chan which sits super nice. And I would add (another plug for absolute) that I have been running their wide narrow rear cog and that might help as well. It is super smooth. 
I ride with a buddy who rides a regular ring and he pops his chain off due to frame flex alone. 
Good luck.


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## Svend P (Sep 21, 2010)

Svend P said:


> What is the preferred format for cranks for a 30T oval ring?
> 
> Both my Niner Air 9 Carbon and my Canyon SLX suffers with the 32T oval ring with 104 BCD cranks. Both rings touches the frame - the Niner just barely, so I think I'll continue using it as it is:
> View attachment 1023934
> ...


So I bought XT M8000 cranks for both my bikes in order to fit a 30T oval chainring on them. The frame clearence is vastly improved, and I'm enjoying the lower gearing!

Here it is the Niner


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## Ben_Im (Mar 3, 2012)

Selling my used sram gxp oval ring for those interested.

Absolute Black OVAL direct mount 32t chain ring for SRAM GXP, lightly used - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Guys, reason we DO NOT recommend 1/8 chains is from simple reason. These chains usually are of poor quality and incorrect pitch. If you look 10-20 pages back at this thread some users has issues with cheap 1/8 chains because they did not fit on our chainring. These chains are often made really badly and will damage the chainring. More over they are almost always made from cheap steel that is much weaker than modern 8.9, 10 spd chains.

it is 100x better to get good 8spd or 9spd chain rather than cheap 1/8chain. 8spd chain will outlast any 1/8chain. Sounds counterintuitive but this is the fact. 8spd and above chains are made with better materials and get better tolerances. This has direct impact of how quiet the drivetrain is and how long it last. For weight weenies - 10spd chain is good as well providing you are fairly light and use min 18T cog on back. If you are over 90kg/200lbs I would get 8spd chain and forget about some small weight difference.


Take this advice or not. But don't say I have not told you.


From my personal experience 8spd chain is the way to go on SS. There are few good options like Sram, Shimano and KMC. Shimano is hard to get these days but Sram and KMC are widely available. Just buy good quality one.


If you skim on chain then you get less life from a ring. Simple as that.


And one more simple advice as many people keep forgetting this.

If you look for longer life of your drivetrain be it oval or round simple rule says go with as big chainring/cog combo as you can. There are plenty of calculators for gear inches so if you think of using 28/16T combo then much better would be 32/18T (same ratio).

It is proven that the smaller cog on the back you have the more wear on chain you will encounter. If you live in hilly place I would definitely use 18T or bigger on the back.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

tehan said:


> Guys, reason we DO NOT recommend 1/8 chains is from simple reason. These chains usually are of poor quality and incorrect pitch. If you look 10-20 pages back at this thread some users has issues with cheap 1/8 chains because they did not fit on our chainring. These chains are often made really badly and will damage the chainring. More over they are almost always made from cheap steel that is much weaker than modern 8.9, 10 spd chains.
> 
> it is 100x better to get good 8spd or 9spd chain rather than cheap 1/8chain. 8spd chain will outlast any 1/8chain. Sounds counterintuitive but this is the fact. 8spd and above chains are made with better materials and get better tolerances. This has direct impact of how quiet the drivetrain is and how long it last. For weight weenies - 10spd chain is good as well providing you are fairly light and use min 18T cog on back. If you are over 90kg/200lbs I would get 8spd chain and forget about some small weight difference.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this advice. After breaking a 1/8 chain with my old 32t round ring and 18t cog, I have no intention of ruining my AB Oval 34t., when it comes, with a cheap chain. Since in my house there are three 10 speed bikes(mtb & road) there are plenty of 10 speed chains available and a jar full of 10 speed quick links, I think I will opt for 10speed chain

On another subject, I'm a huge fan of direct mount chainrings. Never an issue with spiders interfering with chains, you can go very low and except for wear issues you mention, never have any problem mounting. I have a 28t round WT ring on my 1X10, and will be installing 34t AB oval on my SS when it comes. Both cranks are SRAM X9 spline. If I fall in love with the oval on the SS, then I will buy an AB 28t (or 30t) oval for the 1X10.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

Received my chainring today; mounted it with 10 speed chain. Bad news is rainy wet cold weather, so first ride is postponed indefinitely. My ring is a SRAM GXP direct mount. As I expected, since there is only one way to mount the ring on the crank spline, the clocking is "built in"; mount it, and forget it; no need to worry, no room for any tweaking.

Can't wait for a break in the weather to test ride the oval!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 612 (Oct 23, 2015)

Has anyone heard back from AB about their sponsorship program?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Thought about applying but don't write well enough to make it worthwhile for them.
I'm an enthusiastic rider but nowhere near the front of any field. Hell, I can't even SEE the front of the field from where I am.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> Thought about applying but don't write well enough to make it worthwhile for them.
> I'm an enthusiastic rider but nowhere near the front of any field. Hell, I can't even SEE the front of the field from where I am.


Not to be snide, but that doesn't exactly sound like sponsorship talent IMO. As opposed to smiling on the podium or hoisting your bike aloft as you cross the finish line in top 3 position for consumers to notice all the sponsored bling.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

dwt said:


> Not to be snide, but that doesn't exactly sound like sponsorship talent IMO. As opposed to smiling on the podium or hoisting your bike aloft as you cross the finish line in top 3 position for consumers to notice all the sponsored bling.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I'll go on at length about the benefits of oval to all and sundry, I've convinced 6 people to try oval (either riding one of my 4 bikes with ovals or borrowing one of my spare rings) and 4 are now hooked. The other 2 liked it but use a 3x front end.

I do ride videos occasionally, blog about my back country rides, race XC, CX and I don't think I'm sponsorship material either.
So I haven't applied.


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## dwt (Jul 19, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> I'll go on at length about the benefits of oval to all and sundry, I've convinced 6 people to try oval (either riding one of my 4 bikes with ovals or borrowing one of my spare rings) and 4 are now hooked. The other 2 liked it but use a 3x front end.
> 
> I do ride videos occasionally, blog about my back country rides, race XC, CX and I don't think I'm sponsorship material either.
> So I haven't applied.


But maybe you look like Adonis. That plus your salesman skills could be enough.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

dwt said:


> But maybe you look like Adonis. That plus your salesman skills could be enough.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Doh!
Only if Adonis was balding and ran his stomach the way he ran his tyres, a bit of a bulge when looking down.

Come to think of it, that also describes probably 90% of the sales demographic.

Champion of the common man! Delusions of mediocrity!


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## rocki (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm running 33×16 on my Sir SS. Would like to try oval because I do a lot of climbing.
Should I get the 32 or 34t? 

On my other bike i ride a 5 arm Middleburn crankset. Anybody seen oval rings for this one?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

rocki said:


> I'm running 33×16 on my Sir SS. Would like to try oval because I do a lot of climbing.
> Should I get the 32 or 34t?
> 
> On my other bike i ride a 5 arm Middleburn crankset. Anybody seen oval rings for this one?


I'd go for 34/17 if you're comfortable with 33/16.
32/16 will feel slightly lower geared than the 33/16 but bigger cogs are more efficient and longer lasting and if you want a higher gear, running a 16 with the 34 is easier than finding a 15 or smaller for the 32.


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## rocki (Jul 26, 2010)

34t would be more efficient, I guess, but don't know if it's the best fit for the middle position on the spider. I believe it has the same max diameter as a round 36t and then I can only move my ebb forward.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

If I have a custom (fat)frame with clearance for 28t max(29 would fit), would the 26t be the only recommended size?

Nevermind, found the dimensions on the AB website.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

sean salach said:


> If I have a custom (fat)frame with clearance for 28t max(29 would fit), would the 26t be the only recommended size?
> 
> Nevermind, found the dimensions on the AB website.


Yes 26T oval would be max in your case. Unless you know exact diameter that can fit to the frame then we have given all dimensions on our website to measure yourself. 
If you are uncertain about clearance it is best to take a caliper and see how much more space you have from your current ring and then compare.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We will let you all know in Mid December. There is still a lot of applications coming.


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## kallie (Jul 29, 2007)

How about an oval for a Surly od crank (5 bolt bcd 94)
Many bikers would like it


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We are considering it now. Let us think what we can do.


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

After riding with my AB oval for the last two months, I'm a believer. I immediately appreciated how it impacted the feeling of my pedal, and I set several PRs right after installing it. I'm not sure if it was the oval or just a placebo effect that made me faster, but I really enjoy the product. I'd recommend this to anyone considering one.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Bhaalgorn said:


> I'm not sure if it was the oval or just a placebo effect that made me faster, but I really enjoy the product. I'd recommend this to anyone considering one.


Stick a round ring of the same tooth count on for a week and see how you feel.

Not a placebo effect in my case.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Hey Tehan, I'm thinking of giving this ring a chance, will this thing work with an 8 spd chain? I have a WI Eno, which would like an 8 spd chain. Found info that the ring works with 9, 10, and 11 but nada for SS. Of course that was the mobile site on the smart phone. I'll go back through this thread and see if anyone is using it with the Eno, but thought I would just ask directly.

Got your answer, post #116. Thanks, probably will order the 34T soon. New SS drivetrain for christmas!


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## rocki (Jul 26, 2010)

kallie said:


> How about an oval for a Surly od crank (5 bolt bcd 94)
> Many bikers would like it


That would be sweet. Also bcd 94 on my Middleburn crank.


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## cliston (Jul 11, 2014)

Would these work with eccentric bottom brackets?


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## 612 (Oct 23, 2015)

cliston said:


> Would these work with eccentric bottom brackets?


As long as it's tensioned properly yes


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

cliston said:


> Would these work with eccentric bottom brackets?


Works fine with mine.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We got lots of requests for red RF cinch chainrings so we just made them. available now. We have now also sizes for Fatbikes and these rings can be reversed for the correct fatbike chainline.

absoluteBLACK | RaceFace OVAL chainring


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I am thinking about getting a 32t AB. I have a 32t round rig now with an aluminum bash ring. Will the bash ring be of any use on the oval ring?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

mack_turtle said:


> I am thinking about getting a 32t AB. I have a 32t round rig now with an aluminum bash ring. Will the bash ring be of any use on the oval ring?


If your bashring is rated for min 34T round ring then 32T oval will fit with no problem. Bash needs to be rated for +2T compared to nominal oval size. so for 32T oval you need to have bashring that works on 34T round.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

@tehan
Is there a version for the outside position on a 9 speed crank? I have a Surly new hub where the freewheel lines up with the outer ring and I know that you've suggested mounting the ring in the middle position which is also obvious from the mounting holes on the ring. I may have to pony up for a Dos Eno to get a better chainline, but than I'd probably want a 32 and not the 34 (which I have).


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I ran into the same problem and ended up running a 34. My normal gear is 32x20 and I ended up running 34x22,its real close ratio wise and the chain stay length stays the same . That's how I made it work.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

So you have the Surly hub with a Dos or did you just move your cog closer to center?


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I am running a paul hub with a White industries free wheel. This has the same chain line as a Surly hub . With a 34 AB front ring mounted on the outside of an XT 9 spd crank. Really no way to put a 32 oval on the outside .


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Ok, did you flip your cr bolts?


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## fixgeardan (Aug 20, 2004)

I have the cool ones that have a hex on each side and ya I think I did.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Excellent, those are the bolts I'm talkin' bout and that's the plan then.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

Doesn't this thread belong in the "items for sale" forum? I am so sick of getting my Tapatalk ping on this thread only to see another response from Absolute Black touting their breakthrough product. As far as I can recall I had Biopace on my 1984 Schwinn High Sierra. There is nothing new to see here people move on. Do you want an unfair advantage on your singlespeed? ride far and often! I can assure you that will be an ass kicking combination that is hard to beat. 

The moderators should put this in the classified section where it belongs along with the "inventor's" 800 posts in this thread alone!


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Just unsubscribe. It's ok, go ahead, you can do it.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

dbhammercycle said:


> Just unsubscribe. It's ok, go ahead, you can do it.


Yes and Biopace is different.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

SS Hack said:


> Yes and Biopace is different.


Oh please let's have another 500 post debate! 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

shreddr said:


> Oh please let's have another 500 post debate!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No one wants that.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

shreddr said:


> Oh please let's have another 500 post debate!


dude, go away. you're as annoying as a hemorrhoid and chap my ass.

if you need to cool down i'll send you all the flint water you need.


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## Waverys (Jan 14, 2016)

Greetings, I purchased a 34t oval chain ring and I have noticed that it is not "symetrically" oval. It is set up on a single speed and chain tension when the right pedal is engaged in the "power zone" is very tight but when the left pedal is in the same position the chain tension is fine. No issues with my 32 toother. Thoughts?


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

rear wheel aligned good and straight?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

shreddr said:


> I am so sick of getting my Tapatalk ping on this thread


Ping ping ping


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## Waverys (Jan 14, 2016)

Yes sir


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## JokerSC (Nov 5, 2011)

I am strongly considering buying one of these rings. I run 33 or 34 tooth rings normally, with anywhere between a 18-20 on the back. Reading the website it says I should get the 34 ring, but I don't think my bike will accommodate that ring. At the widest part of the oval 34, it will be as wide as a 36, correct? If it is, I don't think it will fit.

I would have to do a 32 oval, which somewhat minimizes the benefit of the oval, right? Or am I wrong on that?


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

If the 34 pedals like a 36, and the 32 pedals like a 34, perhaps you would not be getting the benefit... maybe. Perhaps you'll find it will work the same but with less effort with the 32?

I'm mounting mine on the outer ring because of chainline. I had been running 33x16 (650b) so I went with the 34. I'll be running 34ovalx18 next summer to be a lil more trail friendly.


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## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

Waverys said:


> Greetings, I purchased a 34t oval chain ring and I have noticed that it is not "symetrically" oval. It is set up on a single speed and chain tension when the right pedal is engaged in the "power zone" is very tight but when the left pedal is in the same position the chain tension is fine. No issues with my 32 toother. Thoughts?


Interesting predicament, specially since you are already familiar with an AB Oval having used a 32T. 
I'd suggest sending AB or* tehan* a PM to get the fastest reply although he is usually here frequently. 
Do you have an accurate way of measuring from the outside of the ring bolt holes to the lowest part of the ring where the roller of the chain would set, 180* apart? Seems that would tell you if both sides of the chainring were the same or not ?


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## Waverys (Jan 14, 2016)

jp08865 said:


> Interesting predicament, specially since you are already familiar with an AB Oval having used a 32T.
> I'd suggest sending AB or* tehan* a PM to get the fastest reply although he is usually here frequently.
> Do you have an accurate way of measuring from the outside of the ring bolt holes to the lowest part of the ring where the roller of the chain would set, 180* apart? Seems that would tell you if both sides of the chainring were the same or not ?


The difference, and my only conclusion why it's off is the 32t is threaded and the 34t is not. One naturally has a tight tolerance while the other does not. Also, got an amazingly quick response from AB (Marcin) who believes it's my crankset (cheapo truvativ) tolerances that are too large allowing the chainring to move. All in all I'm a big fan of the quality and customer service.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Same with my stock Truvative crankset on my Kona Unit.
The same ring on XT cranks is much more concentric.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Guys, rings are 100% symmetrical and concentric. This is 100% cnc manufacturing with no errors. 

Some cranks however are stamped and machined afterwards. They usually have bigger tolerances on mounting holes. That means if you are not paying attention to how you mount the ring you can mount it off the center by 0.5mm or bit more. It's all the slack on mounting bolt holes that can create that issue on some lower end cranks.

However this is not end of the world what you can do is take off the chain, open the bolts and try to screw the bolts again more concentric. You should be able to do it in 2 attempts quite easily. It's just with some lower end cranks and we can't control it unfortunately.
in geared bike this will make absolutely no difference but with SS you can see it sometimes as you get looser and tighter spots. So it's not the chainring but actually the crank itself an issue there.
But again you can "fix' it by consciously trying to screw the ring concentric.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

On the side note.... BOOST148 rings are in!

We previously made "one ring fits all" but I changed it now to two separate solutions for easy of running and less effort to figure out which one you need.

So:
*current OVAL GXP rings are now full 6mm offset to have proper 49mm chainline
*New Boost oval ones are 3mm offset to get to 52mm chainline

absoluteBLACK | SRAM OVAL BOOST direct mount traction chainring

chainrings look almost identical with exception for the different offset.
Available in 28,30,32 and 34 in black and red. Available now.


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## NorthGaZJ (Sep 13, 2012)

When are you guys choosing your ambassadors for 2016? The wait is killing me!


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I put my 32t 104 bcd AB oval ring and rode about 40 miles this weekend. I like it! Not a massive difference but it feels more natural and fluid.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

I rode mine as well this past weekend. There was no time where i felt i needed to get uses to it. As posted above by mack turtle it was just more fluid. Definitely moving all my bikes to this.

As a side note, it did seem to help on technical climbs, but maybe I was just having a lucky day.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> I put my 32t 104 bcd AB oval ring and rode about 40 miles this weekend. I like it! Not a massive difference but it feels more natural and fluid.


Put a round 32t on and have a go at the same climbs and see.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

NordieBoy said:


> Put a round 32t on and have a go at the same climbs and see.


Why?
He just stated he likes the oval.

Do you think he hasn't ridden the round on the same course before. Obviously he is switching to the oval.

Do you have anything against ovals?


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## dirtbyte (Aug 23, 2011)

Waverys said:


> Greetings, I purchased a 34t oval chain ring and I have noticed that it is not "symetrically" oval. It is set up on a single speed and chain tension when the right pedal is engaged in the "power zone" is very tight but when the left pedal is in the same position the chain tension is fine. No issues with my 32 toother. Thoughts?


I had this EXACT problem. I am still puzzled as to how the chain tension could be different 180 degrees from where it was. If I tensioned the chain so that it was not all sloppy and falling off at the low point on the ring, it was so tight at the tall point on the ring that it caused the cranks to bind up at that spot. I was not comfortable with that because I am sure that was sapping energy and damaging the ring/cog/hub/bb. So... I went back to round, and guess what? I experienced the same "this is MUCH better" feeling as when I went to Oval. Round for me now.

From a technical perspective, I will still never be able to wrap my head around how there was only one tight spot on the chain and not two.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

dirtbyte said:


> I had this EXACT problem. I am still puzzled as to how the chain tension could be different 180 degrees from where it was. If I tensioned the chain so that it was not all sloppy and falling off at the low point on the ring, it was so tight at the tall point on the ring that it caused the cranks to bind up at that spot. I was not comfortable with that because I am sure that was sapping energy and damaging the ring/cog/hub/bb. So... I went back to round, and guess what? I experienced the same "this is MUCH better" feeling as when I went to Oval. Round for me now.
> 
> From a technical perspective, I will still never be able to wrap my head around how there was only one tight spot on the chain and not two.


I don't have mine on a singlespeed, but I am curious how this could happen.

Isn't the chain length the same throughout?

My rear derailleur doesn't move one bit as I rotate my crank. I'm having a hard time envisioning this. If their were "points" that are causing you an area of binding, wouldn't a rear derailleur be moving to compensate??


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

doesn't this come back to the tolerances of the crank holes that was addressed only a couple posts ago?


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## inclinelongboards (Jun 10, 2015)

fishwrinkle said:


> doesn't this come back to the tolerances of the crank holes that was addressed only a couple posts ago?


Yep. My crank on my Bee's Knees is super cheap so I just tightened the chain like normal and then loosened the 4 bolts on the chainring and retightened them while trying to keep tension even through a full rotation. Took 5 minutes and works great. You can definitely feel how smooth the torque is delivered with the oval. I use platform pedals too which it probably helps more than if you are clipped in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> Put a round 32t on and have a go at the same climbs and see.


I _have_ been doing all those climbs with a round 32t ring for years. the oval ring is noticeably smoother. not drastically so, but it was noticeable enough that I think it was money well spent.

I will try putting my round ring back on at some point after I have gotten used to the oval to see how it compares, but I don't see any reason to put the round ring back now that I have an oval ring. I will keep it around in case I damage the AB ring and need a backup.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Yep, the big test is putting a round ring on after using an oval for a few weeks. I felt it as not being able to pedal through the dead spots in the stroke as easily. The oval feels more natural to me now.


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## Click Click Boom (Oct 23, 2008)

I have there round ring on my Cielo Single Speed. 

I'm going to try the Oval ring on a new build.

How long does it take to adjust to the Oval ring?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

5 minutes or less.


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## F-Bomb (Apr 15, 2012)

I am convinced by the idea of oval rings and would like to give it a go with a 32T, 104BCD, Narrow-Wide ring. There are several players out there (absoluteBLACK, OneUp, Works Components, Bionicon and Wolftooth), and depending on availability, I may go with one or the other.

My reference is the absoluteBLACK which has had quite extensive testing and feedback already. I know that the Wolftooth is a bit more round. But I am curious as to what are the main distinguishing features of the OneUp, Works Components and Bionicon? Are they more or less oval than the absoluteBLACK?


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## rocki (Jul 26, 2010)

I rode for 2 years with a round 33/16 on my Niner Sir. Switched last november to an AB oval 34/17, thanks to this thread.
Didn't notice a big difference with the oval ring on my normal training track, but didn't feel wrong either so I left it on and gave it a real chance. There is a difference in the sound the rear tire makes on tarmac, so I guess traction is now more evenly spread. In march I will start to do more long uphills. I hope I will feel the difference then.
After 2 weeks I got back to a 16T in the back to gain speed I lost with the new ratio. Because the chain was too loose with the EBB all moved forward, I removed one link. Bummer, the ebb was then too far towards the chainstay and touched it while riding. Moving to an AB32/15 was no option forme. There was a chance that ring would also damage the chainstay because of the offset of that ring. Because I really wanted to ride that weekend I went for the fast alternative from my lbs. Rotor 33T qring, works also like a charm. EBB right how it should be and also room enough for tensionning the chain.
I also have a spot where there is a bigger chain tension. Had it also with the round ring. Tried it with loosening the bolts and adjusting the ring, but it's also possible that the spider, that is removable, is not mounted correctly in the middle.

I have no problems adapting from oval in the weekend to my round 36T on my 1x9 Niner I use during the week. Maybe if I will do some more kilometers in march. The plan is to mount the oval AB 34T eventually on that bike, but I'm still awaiting my new spider from Middleburn. Right now I have the 5-arm version.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I am liking this


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## dhbasher (Jan 12, 2016)

Since I've put an oval ring on my Fatbike.
I know my commuter CX singlespeed will get one too!
Specially that I only use flats on all my bikes!
Really helps with the dead zone in my pedal strokes!


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

F-Bomb said:


> I am convinced by the idea of oval rings and would like to give it a go with a 32T, 104BCD, Narrow-Wide ring. There are several players out there (absoluteBLACK, OneUp, Works Components, Bionicon and Wolftooth), and depending on availability, I may go with one or the other.
> 
> My reference is the absoluteBLACK which has had quite extensive testing and feedback already. I know that the Wolftooth is a bit more round. But I am curious as to what are the main distinguishing features of the OneUp, Works Components and Bionicon? Are they more or less oval than the absoluteBLACK?


Hi,
I think I have already described the differences somewhere here but can't find it.

So long story short. 
Long time ago there was Rotor who was the only big player in this field. Idea was sound but there were few issues to solve and also to provide offering to fit most cranks.
We spent almost 2.5 years developing our oval chainrings before they were published. There is a huge amount of science behind them even though they look like a "simple" shape. In fact it is not simple at all. Finding right timing, ovality and shape takes a very elaborate testing and studies. There is a lot of factors to take into account to get the feeling and benefits we claim on our website.

It took us then another year to convince some of you here and other communities around the world to try it. Once we began to be very popular due to how our chainrings work, our competition purchased some as well directly from us for "testing" and made their own versions 2-4 months later. Rest is history.

They of course couldn't "borrow" our patent pending solutions exactly, so they made a "similar" product. Hence they are all more or less oval, have different shape a little and different timing.

But similar is not same. This is what we learned over development period. Even small change from our premium setup makes a difference and it is not a positive one.

So what you can read about our products can't be automatically assumed with others as they are in fact a different product, even if they say "oval" on the tin. This applies to all oval chainrigns that spring up after our success (effectively everyone except Rotor).

It's like with cars for example. Porsche and Honda are both cars as they have 4 wheels and an engine. But they have different properties. Same goes for the "oval" chainring but with more subtle differences that are not so obvious to the eye. But a change of 1mm here and there makes actually a very big difference in riding performance and satisfaction.

Hope this gives you some background of what happened in last 4 years with oval rings.


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## Bad V2 (Jan 28, 2008)

Diggin my oval. Went with Oneup up front and Endless out back with a KMC chain. Pedaling feels normal, which I liked, and when climbing steep stuff I can feel the "extra" torque being applied. Prob add one to my geared bike as well now.


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

Curious if I'm the only one who has found it challenging to find consistent chain tension when mounting up an AbsoluteBLACK chain ring to a single speed.

New AB 32 oval, with spankin' new 9spd chain, onto a RaceFace turbine cinch crankset following the AB instructions completely.

What I get is inconsistent chain tension when the AB ring is rotated 180 degrees, from widest part of the oval to the widest part of the oval. Chain is tensioned properly when the AB ring is oriented one way, then 180 degrees I would expect the tension would be very much the same. Instead, the amount of slack is concerning enough that I feel I may drop a chain during a climb and kill my knee.

Any one have any thoughts as to why this could be happening? I'm out of ideas.

Please note: The entire bike has less than 150 miles on it. New chain, new cranks, etc. Thoughts?

Here is a video to demonstrate further:


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ I don't know if this is your problem, but I like mentioning it every so often.

When I first got my oval I had problems, and it was actually because my chain didn't play nice with my surly cog:



__
https://flic.kr/p/rAkyC9

I'd never noticed it with a round ring, but with the oval it was basically unusable until I found a chain that fit properly:



__
https://flic.kr/p/qFCmCj

I still think it's that strangest thing - about 1/2 of the KMC chains will ride up like that, and 1/2 will fit. Every time I change a chain on this bike it's a crapshoot.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

^That is weird, same chain? Is it because chain tension is tighter on a round ring pulling the chain onto the cog more firmly while the AB has a little slack in it to account for the ovality? 

Perhaps once the chain stretches it will fit better... or is it worse?


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ in both pictures the chain is just hanging off the cog, so no tension.

And it's two different chains - KMC 8.93 and Z92 I think.

But the 8.93 is the chain I use on all my ss/fixed bikes so I've got a bunch of them around, and some will fit, and some won't. On the weekend I did my spring switchover and put on a brandnew one, and it fits like a glove.

It really is my biggest bike-related mystery.

I rode it for 5 years with a normal ring and never even noticed, so eventually the chain must stretch into place. But with the oval the little variations in tension are crazily magnified - basically, at the maximum vertical ovality it lifts the chain off the teeth, and then the chain doesn't want to reseat, so setting tension was impossible. Super weird.


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## Carbonegear (Mar 3, 2015)

Have you ridden it yet? I would go ride it on the road and see how it goes. I ride with my tight spot about there and it also has about that much slack- I have never thrown the chain- I feel like by the time the slack is in the chain I've pedaled out of it. The narrow wide is a huge tool that we never had in the past on a chaining like the Surly. The tight spot is totally normal- there should only be one tight spot in the rotation. 
I have gone one step further and added an Absolute Black narrow wide cog- and that has proven to be flawless.


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## Carbonegear (Mar 3, 2015)

is that an 8 speed chain?


newfangled said:


> ^ I don't know if this is your problem, but I like mentioning it every so often.
> 
> When I first got my oval I had problems, and it was actually because my chain didn't play nice with my surly cog:
> 
> ...


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

The photos are from last year, when I first got the ring. 
I think I did one ride, and decided something was wrong, and was surprised to see that my ancient cog was the cause.
But then I did find a chain that would seat properly (plus several more that wouldn't) and it worked all last year.
And this year I've got one that works.
So it's not a problem - it's just weird.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

If you turn the crank 180 degrees and get a different tension, then you have a problem with something not being concentric. Either the crank, the ring, or the mounting of the ring on the crank (sometimes there is a bit of wiggle room before you tighten the bolts).


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

Carbonegear said:


> Have you ridden it yet? I would go ride it on the road and see how it goes. I ride with my tight spot about there and it also has about that much slack- I have never thrown the chain- I feel like by the time the slack is in the chain I've pedaled out of it. The narrow wide is a huge tool that we never had in the past on a chaining like the Surly. The tight spot is totally normal- there should only be one tight spot in the rotation.
> I have gone one step further and added an Absolute Black narrow wide cog- and that has proven to be flawless.


I gave it a go out in the driveway/yard. No dropped chain or issues noted with a simple road test.


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

spsoon said:


> If you turn the crank 180 degrees and get a different tension, then you have a problem with something not being concentric. Either the crank, the ring, or the mounting of the ring on the crank (sometimes there is a bit of wiggle room before you tighten the bolts).


And you bring up exactly my conundrum: Which is it? I've taken things apart and re-installed after a through cleaning and greasing at key areas. I'm trying to come up with a way of ruling out issues. One would think that if it were a centering issue while putting the ring on, I would have by now found that. If it were the crank... How would you test for that? I'm going to take the ring off again and try to figure exact quadrant cut-offs so I can measure from the center of the ring to the outside and compare it to the measurement 180 deg.

For a bit, I was thinking, if it isn't the ring (which it could be) maybe its the BB facing. But, the facing was impeccably done and I figure even if it was faced slightly a skew, the tight spot would still be consistent. Meaning, it can't be the bb facing.

Seems highly odd that it would be the crank. It is out of the box new as of 150 miles ago. But, it seems that it has to be either the crank or the AB ring.

Anyone have any thoughts how to rule some of these ideas out?


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

Sent a message to AB but haven't heard from them as of yet. I read somewhere in this thread that they read emails every 3-4 days so maybe sometime next week I'll hear.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

thepedalingfool said:


> Sent a message to AB but haven't heard from them as of yet. I read somewhere in this thread that they read emails every 3-4 days so maybe sometime next week I'll hear.


Have you measured the *radius *at the max power point? Hard to believe the chainring is out of round but you never know.... Seems like it's the only possible answer.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

newfangled said:


> ^ I don't know if this is your problem, but I like mentioning it every so often.
> 
> When I first got my oval I had problems, and it was actually because my chain didn't play nice with my surly cog:
> 
> ...


i think we had the same problem....
http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/...ntage-singlespeed-932469-19.html#post11618443

http://forums.mtbr.com/singlespeed/...ntage-singlespeed-932469-19.html#post11618526

i think it has something to do with the circumference of the pins in the chains....like they're slightly greater in some, which causes less open space between the pins themselves, which causes them to ride up on the points of cog/chainring progressively (depending on how tight the tolerances are on them)....and the chain will no longer fit.

it is strange. and tehan is 100% wrong that every chain works on these rings. a connex 7r8 does not.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

NordieBoy said:


> Yep, the big test is putting a round ring on after using an oval for a few weeks. I felt it as not being able to pedal through the dead spots in the stroke as easily. The oval feels more natural to me now.


i love the oval, and i'm a believer in it being more efficient....

but i go back and forth to my geared roadbike with normal rings all the time and don't feel a difference in how it pedals. crank lengths are also different, and my legs don't notice it either. the initial difference is probably exaggerated because we're all used to pedaling round rings since we were ~5 years old....but once you get used to the feeling of oval, going back doesn't feel that difference because it's already familiar to our brains, maybe?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

nomit said:


> i love the oval, and i'm a believer in it being more efficient....
> 
> but i go back and forth to my geared roadbike with normal rings all the time and don't feel a difference in how it pedals. crank lengths are also different, and my legs don't notice it either. the initial difference is probably exaggerated because we're all used to pedaling round rings since we were ~5 years old....but once you get used to the feeling of oval, going back doesn't feel that difference because it's already familiar to our brains, maybe?


Go back to a round ring of the same tooth count on the same bike and ride the same trails.
I'm running oval on 3 of 4 bikes now.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

newfangled said:


> ^ in both pictures the chain is just hanging off the cog, so no tension.
> 
> And it's two different chains - KMC 8.93 and Z92 I think.
> 
> ...


Guys this issue is about Surly cog. They are not made very precisely. Where our chainring is. So if you had in the past cheap cog and ring they could potentially work as they would be a bit of slack.
If you try to match cheap cog that is not very precise with our oval chainring and cheap chain this may happen.

So always use good quality cogs and chains and there will be no issue at all.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

thepedalingfool said:


> And you bring up exactly my conundrum: Which is it? I've taken things apart and re-installed after a through cleaning and greasing at key areas. I'm trying to come up with a way of ruling out issues. One would think that if it were a centering issue while putting the ring on, I would have by now found that. If it were the crank... How would you test for that? I'm going to take the ring off again and try to figure exact quadrant cut-offs so I can measure from the center of the ring to the outside and compare it to the measurement 180 deg.
> 
> For a bit, I was thinking, if it isn't the ring (which it could be) maybe its the BB facing. But, the facing was impeccably done and I figure even if it was faced slightly a skew, the tight spot would still be consistent. Meaning, it can't be the bb facing.
> 
> ...


Hi,
There are few things that can be wrong:
I see you are using ass cog. It does not look new. Saying chain is new, you mean "150miles new" or brand new never used? This is important here. As you rode 150 miles what you have before on the crank? Chainring looks brand new but cog is not so I just need to know what is actually brand new, never used.

So:
*Cog can be out of round. To check for this you would need to move the chain by let say 30 links and see if you get loose/tight spots on the chain in same crank position as you have now. This is relatively easy to check.

*Crank mounting can be out of center. Saying it is new out of box does not say anything about product. Our chainring is new as well. difference here is that RF crank is forged and then machined in the clamp. So making off center mistake is not very difficult. Our chainirng is machined from one position, so off center mistake is extremely rare. 
To check crank you would have to use round chainirng as see if you have tight spots. No other way to measure it. Moving it by only 0.2mm will make such slack you have.

* frame should not be an issue here.

So let me know what have you used on this bike during that 150 miles and what is brand new
Easiest method to rule out everything else and point to the chainring would be mounting round ring on exact same setup and have no issue with chain slack at any point of rotation.

If you can check this with round and all will be good, we would just send you new ring for free if it is faulty. That is no problem. But from my experience such mistake on our side is extremely rare. So please rule out other factors first.

hope that helps. I did not have a customer with this issue from a very long time. So it's usually down to the setup itself or worn parts.


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

tehan said:


> Hi,
> There are few things that can be wrong:
> I see you are using ass cog. It does not look new. Saying chain is new, you mean "150miles new" or brand new never used? This is important here. As you rode 150 miles what you have before on the crank? Chainring looks brand new but cog is not so I just need to know what is actually brand new, never used.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply.

The endlesscog is new within 150 miles.

I did try re-mounting the chain (out of the box new) in a handful of different tooth arrangements with no change.

While I had the stock RF round ring mounted, there was an expected tight spot. All stamped rings are slightly out of round. The amount of slack between the tight spot and slack was less than 8mm.

I'm going to check further regarding the round ring test with a few other new round rings.

I've put some feelers out about the crank being out of speck and it is clear that my concerns are somewhat laughable.

I appreciate your willingness to exchange the AB ring if I determine that it is in fact the ring.

My question to you now is: If the remaining tests point to a non-AB issue, would you have an issue running it as it is currently with degree of slack I have?

Thanks again for your help.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Same chain ring and it was more out of round on my stock Kona Unit cranks than a set of XT cranks in the same bottom bracket.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

RF chainrigns are not stamped. They are cnc machined "similar" to ours. I say similar as actual milling is different but they are not likely to be that bad out of center. RF crank is forged than hold in a clamp and milled with ring interface and other bits. This can be done out of center by nature of such process. I am not saying all cranks are wrong. But you may have got one that is actually little off center. Crank itself is hard to measure. I know lots of customers is using that crank on SS with absolutely no issues so we just need to sort your problem out as it is singularity - not a norm.

So if your round chainring gives you 8mm slack then something is surely not centered properly. 
Our rings and RF rings have very minimal play on the crank-ring interface so this is not an issue either. 

If that chain is absolutely brand new then you are left with the crank. 

Your slack is not terrible but you can improve it. Slack the bb, set up the crank at 4 oclock and tighten again. If you get again big slack in one spot then redo with 3 oclock position of the crank. You can reduce that slack to some degree and it will be ok. It will even out if you try 2-3 positions of the crank before you tighten the bb.


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

tehan said:


> RF chainrigns are not stamped. They are cnc machined "similar" to ours. I say similar as actual milling is different but they are not likely to be that bad out of center. RF crank is forged than hold in a clamp and milled with ring interface and other bits. This can be done out of center by nature of such process. I am not saying all cranks are wrong. But you may have got one that is actually little off center. Crank itself is hard to measure. I know lots of customers is using that crank on SS with absolutely no issues so we just need to sort your problem out as it is singularity - not a norm.
> 
> So if your round chainring gives you 8mm slack then something is surely not centered properly.
> Our rings and RF rings have very minimal play on the crank-ring interface so this is not an issue either.
> ...


Thank you Tehan for your attention.

I'm going to explore this issue further and report back.

As far as adjusting the slack, it is as good as possible without binding the bearings at the tight spot.

I was planning on getting an AB 34 tooth oval in the future. I may get one early and test this issue further. If in fact the issue IS with my AB 32 ring, I can't imagine the same flaw would surface in two different rings.

Strangely, this issue would never present itself with a geared bike setup.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ridenfish39 (Feb 4, 2008)

Interesting thread. I might have to try one of these on my single speed since I am getting back into the MTB thing. 
I've been into doing time trials on the road the last few years and I use a Rotor 55 tooth oval ring. I am a firm believer in it, I really think it helps me come ''over the top'' better. You sit far forward on a tt bike so the dead spot in your peal stroke is even more pronounced. 
Time to look on Ebay for an Absolute Black 32 tooth for my XT crank......


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

I've completed a number of tests and here is what I've found:

With the round ring, I get a very modest tight spot and then perfectly acceptable amount of tension through out the remainder of the rotation. Noting that the modest tight spot takes place with the crank arms at 3 o'clock. I remounted the round ring exactly 180 degrees and re-tested. The modest tight spot remained at 3 o'clock. 

With the AB oval mounted, I get a tight spot with the crank arms at the 4:30/5 o'clock position, and then slack through the narrow part of the oval. Exactly 180 degree rotation of the crank arms (10:30'ish o'clock), there is a notable amount of slack as seen in the video I posted. I remounted the AB oval with the indicator dimple exactly 180 degrees and re-tested. The tight spot moved from the 4:30/5 o'clock position to the exact opposite side, yielding slack in the previous tight spot. The tight spot on the AB oval moved 180 degrees. 

Following my logic, if there was an issue with the crank-arm-mounting-ring-splines being off, the tight spot would remain constant. This isn't the case. The tight spot moves with the AB oval 180 degrees from each other. The tight spot on the round ring remains constant no matter the orientation the ring is mounted. 

Occam's razor in this case says that the AB oval must be the culprit. 

Thoughts?


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

thepedalingfool said:


> I've completed a number of tests and here is what I've found:
> 
> With the round ring, I get a very modest tight spot and then perfectly acceptable amount of tension through out the remainder of the rotation. Noting that the modest tight spot takes place with the crank arms at 3 o'clock. I remounted the round ring exactly 180 degrees and re-tested. The modest tight spot remained at 3 o'clock.
> 
> ...


Giving this a bump. Bump.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

please send me an email and we will sort it out. Interesting case to be fair as it is rather impossible to have only 1 tight spot on the oval ring due to way we manufacture it. 

What we will do is I will ask you to send me yours back and I will just send you new one. I want to measure it myself on precision machine.
send email to contact...absoluteblack.cc


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

tehan said:


> please send me an email and we will sort it out. Interesting case to be fair as it is rather impossible to have only 1 tight spot on the oval ring due to way we manufacture it.
> 
> What we will do is I will ask you to send me yours back and I will just send you new one. I want to measure it myself on precision machine.
> send email to contact...absoluteblack.cc


Thank you Tehan for your reply.

Email sent.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

disregard.

looking for new cog. didnt see other thread. will probably get chris king

id like to try an absolute black with the narrow/wide....but i really like my 19t gearing.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I took the plunge on an AB oval, and took it out today for its maiden run. Did 30 miles on a favorite trail system (Brown's Ranch for PHX locals) mounted on my SS bike with 32x22 gearing. I know, it's low, but Iit works for me.
Overall I like the oval ring. The difference is way more subtle than I expected. The first 50 yards I thought "yeah, there's *something* a little different here" but that sensation diminished quickly. The biggest thing I noticed was at the intensity when you're trying to decide to stay seated and spin or get out of the saddle. At that effort and cadence the ring feels more 'natural'. There was a small difference at cadences approaching 'spin out, I feel like the 'dead spot' where you can't spin the cranks fast enough to keep pressure on the hub pawls' is diminished. It's almost easier to keep the hub engaged if that makes sense. The real slow mash seemed maybe easier, but I didn't ride much that was steep and prolonged, again a subtle 'even' feeling all the way around.
The one thing I did notice that I didn't love was when starting from a dead stop on an uphill, I position my cranks at the 3 and 9. Starting from dead stop, that 1st quarter revolution is pushing a 34T which sometimes caught me off guard being slightly harder than I expected and can be rough to get up and on the cranks.
All in all, I don't regret the purchase, but it wasn't as dramatic as I've heard from others.


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## Waverys (Jan 14, 2016)

nomit said:


> disregard.
> 
> looking for new cog. didnt see other thread. will probably get chris king
> 
> id like to try an absolute black with the narrow/wide....but i really like my 19t gearing.


Narrow/wide has no effect on odd rear gearing.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Waverys said:


> Narrow/wide has no effect on odd rear gearing.


Unless you're looking at a N/W rear cog.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ or if you need a halflink to make your preferred gearing work.


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

*calculating chainstay length*



scottg said:


> You won't need to resize your chain unless you change from a chainring with a different number of teeth.


Is this true? I'm running 32/19 (round ring) on a SS and am trying to predict my chainstay length with different ring/cog combos (prior to purchasing).

I typically use this site to calculate stay length: http://eehouse.org/fixin/formfmu.php

I was assuming a 32t oval ring would be the same as a 34t round ring, and a 34t oval would be the same as a 36t round? No?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Chain length doesn't change with an oval ring because as the x-axis 'grows' from the radius of a 32 to a 34 with the oval, the y-axis is shrinking from 34 to 32 (and then momentarily to 30), so it all ends up cancelling. There isn't a giant tight or loose spot like one would initially think of being associated with a non-round ring.

I can tell you 100% that going from a round 32T to my AB 32 oval, on an XT crankset not only did I not need to even loosen the rear wheel bolts, but my tension actually got more consistent**.


**mostly because my round ring was cheap, stamped and the holes were crap.


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

ARandomBiker said:


> as the x-axis 'grows' from the radius of a 32 to a 34 with the oval, the y-axis is shrinking from 34 to 32 (and then momentarily to 30), so it all ends up cancelling.


I wouldn't think the x-axis matters. Chain tension is primarily a function of the y-axis, yes? And, when the oval ring's maximum radius is at 12 o'clock (and 6 o'clock), doesn't the distance from the top of the cog to the top of the ring increase a small amount (to its maximum distance), thereby taking slack out of the chain, which has to be accounted for when setting chain stay length?

Or I'm wrong because I can't visualize it correctly.

I suspect the variance is very small, but real. If my stays were a 1/8" shorter, I wouldn't be stressing it.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Hopefully Tehan can chime in here because he and Marcin actually designed the thing, and can give the specifics, but based on my understanding and eyeball observations, as well as my 'feel' when cleaning the chain, there is no discernible variation, if there is any.



Ryder1 said:


> I wouldn't think the x-axis matters. Chain tension is primarily a function of the y-axis, yes? And, when the oval ring's maximum radius is at 12 o'clock (and 6 o'clock), doesn't the distance from the top of the cog to the top of the ring increase a small amount (to its maximum distance), thereby taking slack out of the chain, which has to be accounted for when setting chain stay length?


For clarity, let's say the clock positions are relative to the ground, not the crank arm? 
In a round ring, x and y axes are the same all the time.
In an AB ring, as the Y axis 'grows', the x-axis shrinks proportionately; i.e. a given chainlink is further from the crank spindle at the 12 o clock than at the 3 o clock. As the large radius rotates to the 3 o'clock, the 12 o clock radius shrinks, allowing a slightly more direct "path" to the large radius at the 3 o clock.

I'm still new to this SS thing, but it is my personal experience with both a round and oval ring that the tight/loose spots in a crank cycle with the AB is no more pronounced than a (quality) round ring. My personal experience is that I got a more consistent tension because my round ring was crap.

I can almost 100% guarantee that if you simply removed whatever ring is on your bike at this moment, and simply installed an AB with the same tooth-count, the rear wheel would be in the *exact* same place. I did. 
In fact, when I mounted mine I unbolted the round ring, removed the chain, slid the ring off/on over the crank arm, looped the chain back on, and tightened the bolts without even touching the rear wheel.


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## Timon (May 11, 2008)

Waverys said:


> Narrow/wide has no effect on odd rear gearing.


you can't use a 19t rear cog that's narrow/wide. they don't make them....for obvious reasons....

Absolute Black Singlespeed Cog > Components > Drivetrain > Single Speed Cogs | Jenson USA

i like my 36/32 narrow/wide oval front. don't want to change the back from a 19t though, which means i can't run a narrow/wide rear cog.

my rear cogs been dropping the chain like crazy over the past few rides too. like every 5-10 miles, despite the chain being taught. hoping it's the cog wear causing this, cause it's getting old when you unexpectedly have nothing to push against and put your knee into the bar.


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

ARandomBiker said:


> In an AB ring, as the Y axis 'grows', the x-axis shrinks proportionately; i.e. a given chainlink is further from the crank spindle at the 12 o clock than at the 3 o clock. As the large radius rotates to the 3 o'clock, the 12 o clock radius shrinks, allowing a slightly more direct "path" to the large radius at the 3 o clock.


I think this shows the chain remains the same length, and explains why it doesn't bind, but I don't think it proves that the proper stay length remains unchanged between round and oval. Unless I'm mistaken, what happens to the chain in the front half of the ring is irrelevant because a chain is made up of individual links. I think the critical factor is the tension that exists in the collection of links which span from the top of the ring to the top of the cog. With an oval ring, the distance from the top of the ring to the top of the cog varies as the ring rotates, causing chain tension to vary (in that collection of links). If so, the stays must be set to accommodate the moment of highest tension among those links (i.e. when maximum diameter is vertical), which requires setting the stays a bit shorter than what would be needed with a round ring. That's my take on it.

I believe that you didn't have to change your set up when going oval. But I'm not yet convinced there wasn't a difference so small that the bike ran fine either way, giving the impression that there isn't any difference whatsoever.


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

nomit said:


> you can't use a 19t rear cog that's narrow/wide. they don't make them....for obvious reasons....
> 
> i like my 36/32 narrow/wide oval front. don't want to change the back from a 19t though, which means i can't run a narrow/wide rear cog.
> 
> my rear cogs been dropping the chain like crazy over the past few rides too. like every 5-10 miles, despite the chain being taught. hoping it's the cog wear causing this, cause it's getting old when you unexpectedly have nothing to push against and put your knee into the bar.


What is a "36/32" ring? Why can't you run a n/w ring and non n/w cog?


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

nomit said:


> id like to try an absolute black with the narrow/wide....but i really like my 19t gearing.


Ooooh, you already have an AB front, and were thinking of getting a rear one. I understand now. Never mind...


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Ryder1 said:


> I think this shows the chain remains the same length,
> 
> {snipped}
> I believe that you didn't have to change your set up when going oval. But I'm not yet convinced there wasn't a difference so small that the bike ran fine either way, giving the impression that there isn't any difference whatsoever.


I see what you're saying now, I don't disagree that this distance is indeed slightly different. 
It's late and my Trig is a bit rusty, but I threw a pair of calipers on the oval ring, and as best as I could estimate the major and minor axes, we're talking about a change in radius of a few millimeters.
something like 140-ish mm vs 133 mm for the diameters, divided by half for radius is about 3.5-4 mm.
round number math and pythagorean theorem says that changing a "vertical leg" of the triangle by 4 mils changes the length of the hypotenuse ( tip of cog to tip of ring) by about 0.6 millimeters.

Edit: I used 445mm chain stays because....because it was in my head. Longer chain stays would have an ever so slightly greater effect... like 0.05mm more


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I am beginning to see what you're driving at with trying to find a ring/cog combo that results in a desired ratio AND a desired stay length, but I think my view is that the change in radius of an oval ring is less than can be accommodated (by my experience) with a properly tensioned SS chain. We're talking about fractions of a millimeter here.

Personally I'd calculate it based on round, and let the 2/3 of a millimeter sort it self out in the required chain slack.


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## Ryder1 (Oct 12, 2006)

My trig is also rusty, but I think your larger cog (22t) makes the difference less severe because it produces a smaller angle. Regardless, I have negative room to spare. My bike's minimum stay length is 17.1" which allows 32/19 gearing, but only with the dropouts slammed forward, and with a "stretched" chain. I wish my stays went down to 17.0", but I'd rather not file them down. Adding a link and running 32/20 produces a longish 17.5" stay length, which I REALLY don't like on a rigid SS. All anal, yes, but I've been doing the SS thing a while, and know what I like.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Right on man. Good luck with the setup.


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## earworm (Nov 8, 2014)

Just noticed today I had my ring Mounted outside in for the last 6 months. No wonder everything felt harder, I thought it was my tires or something.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey guys,
i can't be here very often as we are incredibly busy but let me answer few questions.

If you want to calculate the gearing assume 32T round is same as 32T oval and so on with other sizes.

This is because our rings are of perfect mathematical shape, so no matter how you cut it on 2 halves through the middle point it will always produce two equal halves. I know it is difficult to imagine it. But this is why you don't get chain tension variation almost. 

The only chain tension variation you get is from imperfections from mounting holes in crank, bolts, chain pitch etc. But this is minimal and in 99% cases not more than you have with your round ring.

so if you take the calculations assume just nominal size regardless the shape. This is only true for Absoluteblack chainrings of course as I don't know how others designed it exactly to speak for them.


I also want to say again, please always buy initially same size of the ring in oval like you have now in round. This is a best way to start. If you buy a size bigger you may find yourself that cadence dropped and ring feels harder because you will actually ride a much bigger gear. 
So again - if you have now 32T round. Go with 32T oval. (unless that 32T round was way to small for you to start with)

Marcin


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## Crave SL (Apr 12, 2016)

Is it better to go 32/20 or smaller 30/19 or 28/18 which equal about the same ratio?

My thinking is the smaller would be a little lighter but may be more friction due to sharper angles.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

You will wear out smaller rings and cogs faster than larger rings and cogs, chain wear may also be faster.

Supposedly it is easier to turn over larger rings and cogs (keep them going?) than smaller, although I'm skeptical it would be noticeable.

If freewheel and not cog, bigger is easier to find. 18 is not a problem 15 tooth may be difficult to find.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Don't over complicate it. Between a 32x20 and a 28x18, you're taking about literally 10-15g weight difference here. 
I suppose there is more difference if you were going from a thick, steel 20 to an uber-light Aluminum 18 there would be more like 25-30g. 
Friction is almost certainly a non-issue.
The difference you'll see is wear-rate. With a proper chainline and tension, even that's rather minimal.

Pick a ratio you like. 34x22 works really well for me.


Completely unrelated to this post, but:

HEY AB!!! MAKE A DAMN BLUE RING!! 
red, green and black are cool, but seriously, you guys need to make a blue one.


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## dhbasher (Jan 12, 2016)

Just got my commuter Felt Breed CX SS on AB 38t oval & AB 16t Cog SS.

Coming from a stock 36t round-16t setup.

I like the higher top speed and easier to get too feeling from a stop. Tried a round 38t and it wasn't that easy.

I went from a 20km/h average speed to 22km/h.

And I use flats, so it feels like less energy is wasted in pedal strokes.

Love it! 










Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

+1 Blue


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

We have finally some news for you.
While this is not a truly SS product, many of you actually use geared bikes as well. So If you know anyone who needs chain guide then please send him the link over.

In short:
OVAL GUIDE™ chainguide is here. This is the only chainguide on the market that is designed specifically for Oval chainrings, keeping your chain secure at every single crank position. OVAL GUIDE™ has unique adjustable chainline from 48-53mm making it compatible with every single bike setup. Weighs virtually nothing*

This is the cooperation between AbsoluteBLACK and 77designz. We worked together for over a year to get you best changuide you could have for Oval chainrings.

This is THE only chain guide that will fully secure chain on the oval chainring. Others just secure it in 60% of the full rotation.
less than 22g 
all screws Titanium
Fits iscg05, iscg05-bsa, hdm and S3/e-type
Can be opened by hand on the trial in case of crash
has chainline adjustability between 48-53mm
Fits 26-34T oval ring

You may ask why you need one?
Some riders still feel safer using some form of additional retention apart of narrow-wide teeth. Especially on Enduro side of riding.

More photos and info here:
absoluteBLACK | OVAL Chain Guide ISCG05
absoluteBLACK | OVAL Chain Guide ISCG05 +BSA
absoluteBLACK | OVAL Chain Guide S3/E-type
absoluteBLACK | OVAL Chain Guide HDM


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## cliston (Jul 11, 2014)

Any other colors coming out? I just got Hope Pro 4 hubs in their orange anodized color for my Carve SL. It would be great to have an orange ring


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Tehan, any idea when the SRAM direct mount boost 26T ovals will be back in stock? Or anywhere I can order one in the US?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

HPIguy said:


> Tehan, any idea when the SRAM direct mount boost 26T ovals will be back in stock? Or anywhere I can order one in the US?


Hey,
We don't make boost 26T rings because you can use with great results and better chainline our GXP 26T oval ring.

This is the only size that will fir chainstays and offers even better chainline for granny rings. Bigger than that and you need to use our specific boost rings with less offset to clear chainstay. This is the only reason Boost rings exist - to clear chainstays in wider frames.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Why are ppl still stuck on the "boost specific" chainline. Standard crank spacing on a boost rear is far better chainline than it ever was with 135/142 rear spacing.

At least Absolute Black has engineers smart enough to figure that out since companies like shimano and sram are too dumb to do it.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

tigris99 said:


> Why are ppl still stuck on the "boost specific" chainline. Standard crank spacing on a boost rear is far better chainline than it ever was with 135/142 rear spacing.
> 
> At least Absolute Black has engineers smart enough to figure that out since companies like shimano and sram are too dumb to do it.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Hi,
I appreciate this comment but this is not as easy as it looks like.

1. There is legal requirement for chainstay clearance when bike is build and sold as a whole in shop. So big companies leave a big clearance margin "just in case". It's exactly like making all bike frames to withhold even 130kg (legal requirement). But if you change chainring yourself you can correct it and put what suits your bike best.

2. While smaller oval chainrings like 26 and 28T with 6mm offset will fit boost frames with no problem and have great chainline, bigger rings may not clear chainstays. So for bigger chainirng sizes there is actually a need to get different offset simply because 6mm offset will not fit to most Boost frames.

Today frame designers take it to the limit so chainstay clearance is not as big as it used to be in 3X cranks era. If you then want to use bigger chainring with bigger offset - it will not fit. Hence a need for the boost offset.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I just got the ISCG 05 one, really well made, unfortunately when I installed it I found out that the reason I have been dropping my chain so much lately is that the oval ring is completely bent, where it won't even fit through the guide without rubbing both sides during a full rotation. I guess I get to wait for another oval ring to ship before using it. Do you make any form of chainring protection / bash guard for an ISCG05 / Race Face SIXC cinch setup?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi,
Sounds you hit the ring on something earlier. 

We will have soon a version of a top guide with integrated Taco as well. This will protect your chainring from damage when you hit the log or rock.


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## scottay (Jan 5, 2004)

Yeah, what he said. I can only fit a 28t with normal offset. With Boost offset I'm hoping to fit a 32T or oval 30T.
.
.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

tehan said:


> Hi,
> Sounds you hit the ring on something earlier.
> 
> We will have soon a version of a top guide with integrated Taco as well. This will protect your chainring from damage when you hit the log or rock.


Yeah, I have smashed it on rocks a few times, it's on a DH bike. I was impressed the teeth held up with no visible damage, probably why I didn't notice it was bent until getting the guide. Will there be a way to add the bash to an existing ISCG 05 guide?


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Pedaling fool, what happened?


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## thepedalingfool (Feb 15, 2016)

hoolie said:


> Pedaling fool, what happened?


AB took care of me and sent a new chainring. Additionally, I ordered a 34 to complement the 32. I put the 34 on and problems were solved! Strangely, I put the 32 on for a particularly climby adventure ride and the problem surfaced again. I had an email exchange with AB and it was determined that the smaller rings will bring slight out of spec issues where the larger rings will mask them. These out of spec issues are likely connected to a constellation of minuscule issues within the chain, cog, bearings, and chainring.

Long story short, I generally run a 34x20 and experience no issues at all. The times when I do opt for the 32x I haven't ever dropped a chain nor do I worry about it given the AB ring has the narrow wide profile.

I've been riding the AB rings a little over 700 miles now with no issues. I'm a fan. I honestly feel like my knees appreciate the oval vs the round rings.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

I ordered a AB DM SRAM oval 32t a few weeks back from Jenson. It sure looks pretty. I took off a OneUp Oval to put it on and found much more play in the direct mount with the AB ring. Mounted it up anyway by holding it in the chain pull direction while bolt it down so it wouldn't move later. 
Without moving the sliders from where they were for the other oval I got much tighter and looser spots in the chain than I had before. I couldn't get it adjusted to where I was happy with the tension. 
Took it off and put the One Up Back on. Perfect tension with barely any change going around the oval. The rear cog is a WI Trials Freewheel. Both the DM spider adapter I have and the One Up fit tightly on the DM splines. 
I'm thinking it's the slop in the direct mount. Anybody else see this on theirs?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi,
We do leave a bit of play but it is concentric. As you can see you can only "rotate" the ring tiny bit. But not change center position as this parameter is tight. We do this as Sram cranks has some discrepancy and we need to make sure it will fit every crank. But it is still concentric.

To be fair it's a bit strange you can't get it to near even tension. 

We do use different shape and ovality compared to Oneup but there is not much of chain tension difference. Try to set it up once again. 

One main thing to consider is chain. If your Oneup ring is already used and you are using same chain to put with our new ring, it will surely not work as you expect. You need a new chain for this to use with new chainring.

Then if you still get a bit uneven chain tension, ride it for 10-20 miles and adjust tension once again. It will bed in and work nicely.

Marcin


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## Dan-W (Nov 21, 2014)

This probably won't be a popular opinion, but oval on SS isn't for me.

I know I've been a PITA before Marcin so I apologise in advance (it did help narrow down the KMC chain tolerance issue that was seeing chains dropped in muddy conditions though so my observations are occasionally useful  ). This is more a general comment on oval rings and SS.

The advantages of an oval ring are supposed to be smoothing out the stroke and minimising the dead spot in a pedal revolution. The theory is this leads to a reduction in fatigue more than anything... pedal smoother, last longer. Rotor's own research in to this concluded that there were no statistically significant benefits to using an oval ring but equally there were no negative findings either. So, give them a try was what they said... and I think if you are curious you should absolutely give them a go.

Others claim oval rings improve traction. On this front I actually feel less in control of the pedal stroke on SS, especially during very low cadence standing climbs, since a nice round, constant stroke feel of a round ring (for me) helps "balance" and "feel" the traction better compared to almost falling through between strokes (hard to explain).

The main issue is that I personally couldn't put up with the constant slack chain/tight chain every revolution of the cranks - I may be a bit anal about chain tension... in practice the chain is *probably* unlikely to fall off but my mind couldn't rest with the floppiness of the slack sections.

It is always said that chain tension remains constant(ish) but it wasn't good enough for me. If a round ring is slightly out of round then you can see and feel those tight spots, an oval ring is no different but to a greater extent. In reality the oval is always engaging the same number of chain links, but the chain isn't horizontal, so is wrapped round slightly more than half the chaining, which means the tension is never perfect.

Judge for yourself:






Tight bit looks too tight, slackest section is pretty floppy even though the chain is over tensioned IMO. AB's own video with some very delicate prodding the chain to show tension remains *even* but hey. There was a video showing an oval ring with XX1 and the rear mech bobbing around and at that time I think the claim was that there is enough movement in a clutch mech to deal with the uneven tension which is kind of contrary to the "constant tension" claims of any oval manufacturer but hey... again

On a geared bike I didn't see the oval ring as a particular benefit (for me) but it also wasn't any hindrance so I stuck with it. I didn't notice much difference swapping between round or oval and didn't find it such a night and day experience as some people, even in terms of feel let alone "performance" (ride with a PM).

On a SS I couldn't let myself trust the slackening of the chain and found a NW ring a lot noisier than the Renthal ring I usually use with a 3/32 setup so there was enough to make me switch back all other things aside.

Summary, try it and see if you can live with it. Most companies will exchange for a round ring if you don't like the oval so you don't have anything to lose by trying. Happy trails!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey,
We used no prepping for our video to show how the tension is even. I can repeat that every single time setting chain tension like you see on the video. So if you get a lot bigger variance then you should consider buying different chain (no cheap 5$ chains and KMC) and try to play with the setup a bit as something is not concentric. 
Chain is Always wrapped 50%, not less not more so variance is minimal and down to intolerances like with round ring. In geared bikes long cage (like xx1) may move a bit because most likely ring is mounted tiny bit off the center. With short cages this would not be even visible.

The video you shown with Rotor ring is also more than ok with chain tension. Such chain will never drop off. If you do drop the chain then it means your frame flexes enough to do it. This is why we do narrow-wide rear cogs to counter this.

Regards noise.
Narrow wide ring if mounted in same line with rear cog will generate 0 noise. So if you do get the noise then it means 2 things:
1. cog/ring is not in line
2. Your rear end of the frame is flexing a lot during the ride.

.....
Rotors own research actually shows more power and less lactate and lots of benefits. So not sure which "research" you read. 
But on side note, Fact is that most of those researches are done incorrectly. Setting professional riders on very short Time trial on flat road with sub maximal power output for less than 20sec. This is not where the oval rings shine. So all those "reports/researches" are completely not relevant to what we claim. This is something most don't understand as they have not read all of these researches and do not know how they been conducted. It's a time consuming process to read every single research and understand how they measured it exactly, so there is no surprise that almost everyone will just look what is the score.


And lastly. Chainring size is very important on SS as you have only one gear. So if you choose too big of an oval ring you may find it harder to ride. So always choose same size as your old round or size smaller.


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## Stray Mutt (Dec 3, 2011)

tehan said:


> Hi,
> We do leave a bit of play but it is concentric. As you can see you can only "rotate" the ring tiny bit. But not change center position as this parameter is tight. We do this as Sram cranks has some discrepancy and we need to make sure it will fit every crank. But it is still concentric.
> 
> To be fair it's a bit strange you can't get it to near even tension.
> ...


This isn't my first rodeo. The old chain went into a bag with the old chainring. In case I needed that combo again. A new chain went on with the new chainring.

Just what is it about your ring that needs to "bed in"? Are the teeth in the tight spots going to wear down or will the direct mount splines wear?

I've had two other rings on this crank and neither one had any indication of not being concentric. There's only one way to mount the ring so I'm at a loss as to why this one is so much different.

If I give this another try and it doesn't get better I'm not sure I can return it worn, you'll make it good at that point?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Dan-W said:


> Others claim oval rings improve traction. On this front I actually feel less in control of the pedal stroke on SS, especially during very low cadence standing climbs, since a nice round, constant stroke feel of a round ring (for me) helps "balance" and "feel" the traction better compared to almost falling through between strokes (hard to explain).


This is where I feel the most benefit from the oval and the worst when going back to a round ring.



Dan-W said:


> The main issue is that I personally couldn't put up with the constant slack chain/tight chain every revolution of the cranks - I may be a bit anal about chain tension... in practice the chain is *probably* unlikely to fall off but my mind couldn't rest with the floppiness of the slack sections.


Even at it's loosest point, I can't get the chain to come off in the stand and have to loosen the rear wheel.

We're all individuals, good on you for giving it a good go.


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## Dan-W (Nov 21, 2014)

> We used no prepping for our video to show how the tension is even.





> variance is minimal and down to intolerances like with round ring. In geared bikes long cage (like xx1) may move a bit because most likely ring is mounted tiny bit off the center.


The tension is most definitely is not even. Maybe close to even, but an oval ring is not absolutely identical to a round ring where chain tension is concerned. The chain tension may be deemed insignificant variation but there is variation. I think you allude to the chainring being off centre in other replies (I have SRAM direct mount) so that could be a possible additional factor with this specific ring in addition to general oval issues. The variation in chain tension is more obvious in the Rotor video than the AB video as only one section of the chain is moved rather than sections above and below the chainstay being squeezed.



> The video you shown with Rotor ring is also more than ok with chain tension. Such chain will never drop off.


Nevertheless in the muddy, gritty conditions we usually have in the UK this extra slackness in the chain isn't something I'm prepared to risk my gonads for  I do agree it is *probably* ok if riding in mainly dry conditions but that isn't good enough for me personally.



> If you do drop the chain then it means your frame flexes enough to do it. This is why we do narrow-wide rear cogs to counter this.


I'm fairly sure I've seen you say in the past (Singletrackworld comments section?) that these NW sprockets aren't really designed for the day in day out SS'er, but more for someone with a lightweight XC bike that occasionally gets converted to SS and wants a secure setup with a 10/11 speed chain in a sub-optimal SS setup. That is fine and I'm sure it does the job as intended. For regular SS I personally find a 3/32 chain, 3/32 Surly sprocket and Renthal non-NW ring the quietest, trouble free and durable setup.



> Regards noise.
> Narrow wide ring if mounted in same line with rear cog will generate 0 noise. So if you do get the noise then it means 2 things:
> 1. cog/ring is not in line
> 2. Your rear end of the frame is flexing a lot during the ride.


A NW is noisier and there's no escaping that. I'm pretty confident in my chainline, but regardless, even if it is all set up so badly then the normal round, non NW is more tolerant to my mechanical ineptitude   Again, the NW ring is designed to grip the chain more than a non-NW you will always have more noise when riding in mucky conditions and have slightly poorer mud clearance. Again, not an issue for most so it is my problem not anyone else's 



> Rotors own research actually shows more power and less lactate and lots of benefits. So not sure which "research" you read.


A difference and a statistically significant difference are not the same thing, which leads in to....



> But on side note, Fact is that most of those researches are done incorrectly.


Absolutely agree. Experimental design, sample size, analysis and statistical methods are all exceptionally poor and would pass for publication in my field.

Even more reason for people to give these rings a try and not take too much note of what they read (my ramblings included!)

Happy trails!


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Any chance you'll offer one in 102 BCD?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Oval = Good*

Swapped my son's oval ring out for another with more offset so I decided to put the old one on the SS. For sure felt different but not strange. Liked the way it felt at the top of the stroke.

Going to run it for a bit and see how it goes.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Swapped my son's oval ring out for another with more offset so I decided to put the old one on the SS. For sure felt different but not strange. Liked the way it felt at the top of the stroke.
> 
> Going to run it for a bit and see how it goes.


That oval ring is incredible it allows you to rid the bike upside down or are you from Australia?

Edit: On my phone the pictures were upside down. On my computer right side up. :madman:

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

luvdabeach2001 said:


> That oval ring is incredible it allows you to rid the bike upside down or are you from Australia?
> 
> Edit: On my phone the pictures were upside down. On my computer right side up. :madman:
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Were you standing on your head or was your phone upside down 

Another ride last night and it feels like my normal mashing stroke is now smoother........weird.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

DeeZee said:


> Were you standing on your head or was your phone upside down


I hadn't even been drinking










much.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cycljunkie (Feb 6, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> Swapped my son's oval ring out for another with more offset so I decided to put the old one on the SS. For sure felt different but not strange. Liked the way it felt at the top of the stroke.
> 
> Going to run it for a bit and see how it goes.


Any issues with chain tension?


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

cycljunkie said:


> Any issues with chain tension?


Nope.....

On the stand it is odd due to the variance. On the trail I can't feel a thing. My bike is fully rigid and took it down some teeth rattling chunk and no issues.

After three rides and 75 miles I like it.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

I hope you don't mind but I made a carbon chainring using your chainring as a template . I won't be selling them but it is something I wanted to add to the bike and I wrok with carbon so it wasn't that difficult to do .


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## buell (Oct 15, 2015)

how many miles will it last?


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

buell said:


> how many miles will it last?


Have absolutely no idea . It's prepreg not standard carbon so much stronger surface and tensile strength . I do have a FibreLyte chainring that I ordered two years ago and it gets some use and is still going strong .

This is more an experiment than anything . I also made a carbon fibre 16T sprocket together with this (I'm a weight weenie btw) .


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## charlatan (Aug 14, 2010)

Okay, I am sold (in theory). I am assuming from what I've read here that I won't have any concerns with frame flex and an oval setup with my frame being hard tail steel. There may be other factors / issues, but I can cross that one off. 

I am coming from not riding in quite some time to SS. I think this will make up for some inefficiencies in my technique on climbs, which I desparately need if my first SS ride was any indication 

Are there any considerations that need to be made in frame design for this? I am assuming I'll still be able to use paragon dropout sliders on the rear.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

charlatan said:


> Are there any considerations that need to be made in frame design for this? I am assuming I'll still be able to use paragon dropout sliders on the rear.


not really, chainline is probably the biggest one. be sure the cranks and hub your using have the appropriate adjustability. some AB rings have standoffs (ex. 32t) and other don't (ex. 34t) which can limit where they can be mounted on the cranks.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

karimian5 said:


> I hope you don't mind but I made a carbon chainring using your chainring as a template . I won't be selling them but it is something I wanted to add to the bike and I wrok with carbon so it wasn't that difficult to do .


Whoa, that's pretty cool.. but is it NW? ;P


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

- chainline is THE biggest problem, but once you've got that set correctly, you won't notice a thing......I've been running oval now for over a year and chain-slack has never been a problem (I did convert a geared frame to SS), mostly because I use a god-speed tensioner........


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## Bhaalgorn (Jul 16, 2015)

karimian5 said:


> Have absolutely no idea . It's prepreg not standard carbon so much stronger surface and tensile strength . I do have a FibreLyte chainring that I ordered two years ago and it gets some use and is still going strong .
> 
> This is more an experiment than anything . I also made a carbon fibre 16T sprocket together with this (I'm a weight weenie btw) .


Whoa, that's awesome. Please keep us updated! I wish I had the knowhow and ability to work with carbon.

Also, I'm happy to volunteer as a tester for these.  I'll pay shipping and send you beer as a thank you!


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Cheers man . I will let you guys know how I get on . One point I should make is there is already some slight damage to one tooth but that was completely my fault . I had the chain at an angle on the chainring so it wasn't fully on . I hit the crank arm pretty hard with my leg accidentally and the chain hit the tooth very hard . Now there is no crack on the surface but I used 3 layers of fabric so one layer has come away . Easy fix but the resin has to cure for around 17 hours . 

I do make a lot of stuff from carbon and this bike has quite a bit . The crankset for example is a RaceFace carbon crankset and if you notice in the first picture you can see four tubes in the middle of the crank . I made my own carbon axle for the crankset using prepreg tubing and epxoyresin mixed with carbon filler . So far it has held up well .


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

So I am having issues with uneven chain tension. I tension it to about 1/2" deflection when the ring is at its largest (oval ends vertical), but when it is at horizontal or rotated 90° I get more slack. This makes sense that it does that, but people and AB say it doesn't.

Do I need to be worried about this? Premature wear on any parts, etc?

Thanks


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## MTBMILES (Dec 27, 2007)

I wouldn't worry about it, the same thing happens with a round ring. As long as your chain doesn't fall off or rattle around too much. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OneUp (Nov 26, 2013)

yourrealdad said:


> So I am having issues with uneven chain tension. I tension it to about 1/2" deflection when the ring is at its largest (oval ends vertical), but when it is at horizontal or rotated 90° I get more slack. This makes sense that it does that, but people and AB say it doesn't.
> 
> Do I need to be worried about this? Premature wear on any parts, etc?
> 
> Thanks


This just means you're a beast!

If the chain is parallel on your setup (ie. you are running 1:1) there will be no change in tension from vertical to horizontal. When the angle increases because you're running a higher ratio there will be a small effect on tension. Typically this is nothing to worry about but it is understandable that it would appear odd.

I hope that helps,
Jon @ OneUp


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## Intramural (Nov 6, 2016)

Mr. 68 Hundred said:


> I would love to see video of the chainring in action without a tensioner and with a way to see how much chain slack is happening. I can imagine how/why it could work that way but I'm still not quite believing it. Or, does the tension change, just not enough to derail the chain with a narrow-wide ring (and perhaps cog)?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

intermural said:


>


Mine also are tighter with the left crank forward...


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## OneUp (Nov 26, 2013)

NordieBoy said:


> Mine also are tighter with the left crank forward...


Weird. I don't think that's an issue with oval in theory. Either the crank or ring appear to be spinning off center (or both to a small degree). Try mounting the ring 180deg from the current rotation.

- If the tight spot changes to right foot forward it's the ring.
- If the tight spot stays left foot forward it's the crank.
- If the tight spot disappears it's both.

I noticed the manufacturer's demo video uses a tensioner so the chain angle is very small.

Jon


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

yourrealdad said:


> So I am having issues with uneven chain tension. I tension it to about 1/2" deflection when the ring is at its largest (oval ends vertical), but when it is at horizontal or rotated 90° I get more slack. This makes sense that it does that, but people and AB say it doesn't.
> 
> Do I need to be worried about this? Premature wear on any parts, etc?
> 
> Thanks


You're misunderstanding. We're saying that the change in chain tension isn't a problem.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

solo-x said:


> You're misunderstanding. We're saying that the change in chain tension isn't a problem.


So I guess I don't get it. Initially I was thinking that it made sense that the chain tension is changing as the oval rotates, but really it should be pushing the chain out consistently. So I don't understand why the tension is changing and why that isn't a bad thing? Can you explain it to me like I am 5 yrs old?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

yourrealdad said:


> So I guess I don't get it. Initially I was thinking that it made sense that the chain tension is changing as the oval rotates, but really it should be pushing the chain out consistently. So I don't understand why the tension is changing and why that isn't a bad thing? Can you explain it to me like I am 5 yrs old?


mine has a slight difference in chain tension. it affects nothing, don't lose sleep over it, just move on to something important like what's the best frame material?



OneUp said:


> Weird. I don't think that's an issue with oval in theory. Either the crank or ring appear to be spinning off center (or both to a small degree). Try mounting the ring 180deg from the current rotation.
> 
> - If the tight spot changes to right foot forward it's the ring.
> - If the tight spot stays left foot forward it's the crank.
> ...


^ nailed it


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

*OneSpeed* said:


> mine has a slight difference in chain tension. it affects nothing, don't lose sleep over it, just move on to something important like what's the best frame material?
> 
> ^ nailed it


I actually have that down, its obviously Adamantium.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

karimian5 said:


> Cheers man . I will let you guys know how I get on . One point I should make is there is already some slight damage to one tooth but that was completely my fault . I had the chain at an angle on the chainring so it wasn't fully on . I hit the crank arm pretty hard with my leg accidentally and the chain hit the tooth very hard . Now there is no crack on the surface but I used 3 layers of fabric so one layer has come away . Easy fix but the resin has to cure for around 17 hours .
> 
> I do make a lot of stuff from carbon and this bike has quite a bit . The crankset for example is a RaceFace carbon crankset and if you notice in the first picture you can see four tubes in the middle of the crank . I made my own carbon axle for the crankset using prepreg tubing and epxoyresin mixed with carbon filler . So far it has held up well .


Interesting. Wonder how well it'll hold up and whether a ud laminate would be better than weave.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Oh UD will be stronger but heavier (by a few grams) . I actually think UD would look nicer too .


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

yourrealdad said:


> So I guess I don't get it. Initially I was thinking that it made sense that the chain tension is changing as the oval rotates, but really it should be pushing the chain out consistently. So I don't understand why the tension is changing and why that isn't a bad thing? Can you explain it to me like I am 5 yrs old?


As OneUp posted, if your oval ring is 32t and your cog is 32t, then chain tension would not vary at all. This is because the chain will wrap around the exactly 50% of the chain ring and get equal amounts of the larger and smaller radius portions of the oval. However, that ratio is not commonly seen on a single speed. If you take a ratio where the chain ring is significantly larger than the cog, you get more chain wrap around the chain ring. When the chain is wrapped around more of the larger radius portion of the oval, the chain tension is now tighter than when the chain is wrapped around more of the smaller radius portion of the oval.

The change in chain tension is not sufficiently large to increase the likelihood of dropping a chain. Your chain line is still dominating that scenario, so if your chain line is perfect then you won't have any issues with chain drop with an oval ring despite the chain tension varying as the cranks are turned.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I get varying chain tension on my 2*32, 2*34, 36, 38 and 42t oval rings.
It's worse on a set of Truvative cranks off my Kona Unit and best on a set of XT's.
I run them on 5 bikes.

Even when the EBB on my Chameleon kept slipping during a ride and the chain had maybe 10cm of slack, I never had it come off.

Do I worry about it?
Not anymore.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

finally took the plunge. i went AB 32t and their 18 cog, it will go on my '13 N9. wife is from polska so i went with them, plus they have awesome machining.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Solo,

Thanks for the reply. I guess I just won't worry about it. It hasn't been an issue and chain has never come off even with some rough riding. Just need my EBB to stay tight and we are all good.


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## broeli (Feb 15, 2008)

I love the oval on my 1x11 but I'm having serious issues trying to use it on my ss. When I had the AB rear nw cog it wasn't an issue but when I switched to a surley cog my chain keeps coming off..on several occasions it caused me to wreck. One time I actually went over the bars. This happened when the trail was pretty smooth too. The chain IS tensioned good and tight when it is on the big portion of the oval. I guess it is too slack when it rotates though. I had to tighten it to where it was actually somewhat tight on the small part of oval


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## boostin (Apr 21, 2008)

Sounds like your issue is with alignment not tension. You can have the tension set perfect but if the alignment is off you'll dump chains.

I have an AB 30t oval ring on my SS. It's geared 30x20. I like it so far. Not too many miles yet. Mashing seems more fluid with better power transfer.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Hi Guys,
Sorry for not being here as often as I would like to be. 

@ broeli
There may be 2 issues here. Your cog is not properly aligned with the front ring or chain is already old and you just put new cog in.

Please also remember that Surly cog is a stamped piece of metal. So it is not very accurate and may as well be off center. This together with the old chain can cause you the trouble you mention.
So A) make sure you get new chain B) if you already put new chain on then check tension and alignment.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Difference in chain tension: General information.

It seems that few of you have some chain tension variation so I will try to explain you in detail why this happens.

In theory if all parts are in proper alignment and concentric then there is no variation in chain tension at all. I have build numerous bikes that have almost zero difference in tension when pedaling and one of the builds you can see on our website video.

In real life though, BB, Crank arms, cogs, chain, chainrings and tolerances between them influence that tension a lot. So if you have a cheaper crank and use let say 104bcd chainring then you can get a play on the bolt holes when mounting the ring to the crank. What I mean by this is that you may not mount your chainring concentric vs crank. This will give you the variation in tension we talk about here.

Same goes with cheap chain or cogs. We already had a lot of examples even in this thread that 6$ chains are not good for this as they have uneven pitch of the chain links. So it will cause you this variation and other issues.

--
Saying all this. If variation in chain slack does not throw your chain off the cog/ring when riding - then there is nothing to worry about. There will be no premature wear etc. So just keep riding.
--

In order to get smallest possible variation.
* Always get new chain when you change used/worn chainring or cog
* Never buy cheap 1X chains. We really recommend 8spd chains for SS. Be it Shimano or Sram. They will last you longer from many reasons and are precisely manufactured.
* Always buy good quality cogs. (Not stamped)

*Make sure you align your chainring concentric. 
A) for spider mounted chainrings like 104bcd: Bolt the chainring on but let the bolts a little loose so ring can be moved around with some effort (not completely loose). Mount the crank back to bike, put the chain on and tension the chain (see below). Then rotate the crank on the stand for 20-30 rotations. This will ensure that ring is perfectly concentric. If chain is excessively loose in some parts. Tension again and rotate the crank again. This will sort the unevenness. Tighten the bolts when crank is at 4 oclock.

B) for spiderless crank like Sram X01 or RF cinch it is much easier. You just mount the chainring on as there is very little play concentrically on the splines.

* HOW to properly tension the chain. 
Please watch this video: 




I will only add, when you set the crank at around 4 oclock and tension the chain then leave no slack at all. Just tension it so the chain have no give to it under fingers. If all was made correctly then when the crank is at 6-7 o'clock (crank vertical) there will be only very little slack. So again, when you tension initially leave no slack. 
After the first ride you will naturally get little slack as chain will bed in with chainring and so on. So for initial tension leave no slack.

I know that instruction looks long. But it actually takes 2min with the bike if you know what you do. Always use new chain with new ring or cog and always tension same way as written above. This will ensure as little of the slack as possible.

Marcin


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

^ yup, nice clear explanation. hopefully that will help clear up any confusion and help some people out with their setup.


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

im running AB ovals on both my road and mb ss setups,both with surly cogs and both setups with 2 cogs on the rear and so far zero problems and in both cases with a SRAM 9 speed chain.definitely noticed the improved traction control and smoother climbing in general...

round is the new square!


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## solo-x (Feb 16, 2010)

"No variation in chain tension at all" and "there will be only very little slack" are very different things. And "very little" differs from one person to the next. As I explained earlier, with an oval ring IF you wrapped the chain around exactly 50% of the ring, there would be no variation in chain tension. But since very few of us run a 1:1 ratio on an SS, we always have a _little_ more chain wrap around the chain ring then 50%. This is what causes the variation in chain tension people report and can be seen in the videos. On my own bike, the chain tension variation with my 32x16 setup is significantly more than the chain tension variation with my 32x20 setup.

That said, if your chain line is spot on, then the variation in tension is not an issue. Hell, my chainline is off by 3mm and I have no issues. Also, if you have compounding tolerance issues with run-out in your crank spindle, bottom bracket, or crank spider, then you will have larger variances in tension.

Great product Macin, I just ordered a 34 oval to replace my 32 oval that I bent when I pulled a small pebble into the drive train. (that ultimately also resulted in breaking two inner links on a KMC 10SL chain)


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

My 34t AB ring is just a little too tight on my SLX 104 bcd cranks to clear the spider. The chainring does not have built-in spacers like my previous 32t ring. Anyone got a solution?


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

tehan said:


> Please also remember that Surly cog is a stamped piece of metal. So it is not very accurate and may as well be off center.


Surly SS cogs are machined, this is taken straight from their site;

_Surly cogs are machined from SCM415 CroMoly steel, then heat-treated for toughness and chrome-plated for surface hardening and enhanced chain lubricity.
_


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

mack_turtle said:


> My 34t AB ring is just a little too tight on my SLX 104 bcd cranks to clear the spider. The chainring does not have built-in spacers like my previous 32t ring. Anyone got a solution?
> 
> View attachment 1122119


looks like you need a new bike. 

how much more clearance do you need? it looks like 2 minutes with a Dremel or a file would fix it. or a grinder/grinding wheel etc. there's extra material there, i wouldn't worry about weakening it.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Yup, took a cutting wheel to the tips of the two offending arms and make room. No big deal


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## dhbasher (Jan 12, 2016)

Is it an unfair advantage on my Felt Breed SSCX. Well, not anymore... 

I've installed(all bran new) AB Oval SRAM CX ring 38t, AB Cog 16t and a SRAM PC-870 chain like recommended,
last spring.

This been on my SSCX commuter with great result at 1st. Higher top speed, lower effort for pulling off from a stop.

But, around January, I've discovered while cleaning the chain and tranny (winter riding) that I've lost 6 teeth out of my 16t Cog!?

The issue have been fixed promptly by the distributor from which I've bought it.

I've received a new AB 16t Cog in no time but not to founded about installing it back. Aluminum seems a bit weak for my use. Urban Winter commuter...

So I've installed a 17t Steel Cog taken from a like-new cassette.

All this have been setup the whole time by a very qualified technician. Chainline & tension is spot on and the chain is still good to go.

BUT, since putting the 17t cog, I've been getting loads off chain dropping inside the Cog (between the Cog and wheel).

We've re-check the chain, the tension and chain-line and everything is has it should be.

So, now the price of performance seems to cost too much on reliability to me so I'll probably go back to a regular 38t round ring if the issue can't be fixed...

Hope any help can be provided with info, or perhaps, even a new AB Round Ring in 38t? A guy can always dream...


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

dhbasher said:


> So I've installed a 17t Steel Cog taken from a like-new cassette.


That's your problem. cogs out of a cassette are NOT SS cogs.

get yourself a Surly cog, you can thank me later.


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## dhbasher (Jan 12, 2016)

*OneSpeed* said:


> That's your problem. cogs out of a cassette are NOT SS cogs.
> 
> get yourself a Surly cog, you can thank me later.


Ok, I'll hunt that down! Thanks!


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

rookie SS mistake: never waste time gutting a cassette to use a single cog as an SS cog. it never works well.


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## dhbasher (Jan 12, 2016)

mack_turtle said:


> rookie SS mistake: never waste time gutting a cassette to use a single cog as an SS cog. it never works well.


Yeah that was actually a backup plan for my AB tooth missing Cog...I've look for steel cog after that but only found track Cog, got a 135 cassette body stock on the SSCX...now I know a good cassette SS Cog! 

Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk


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## brownplus (Mar 31, 2005)

been riding since 1984....and went through biopace nonsense.
this is the real deal....this oval works...in spades.
no need on my fs gear'd but on my ss bike it is heaps better climbing and allows for a bit larger front ring.
nuff said....it works whether you like it or not....
right now on a rsd sergeant mullet style....beeeyoutifull for killing the local overbiked crowd.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

Look at this thread! You all need some grump in your life.

I was sort of curious then was stuck using an ab chainring for 3 days of riding. Couldnt get used to it, it discombobulates my timing while standing. Couldnt believe the relief when i got a round chainring back on.

I understand the physics perfectly but find the variable pedal speed is jarring. It bugs my cadence just like biopace did in the 80s.

To me this all reads like a bunch of fanboyz.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

eri said:


> To me this all reads like a bunch of fanboyz.


To me, all this reads like a bunch of people who tried something new and liked it. If it does not work for you, that's fine. Don't discount others' subjective experience because you're not having it too.

What size/type of oval ring did you buy? Someone here will certainly buy it from you.


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## mtbnutty (Aug 5, 2004)

Are oval rings being made in 102 bcd yet?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

mtbnutty said:


> Are oval rings being made in 102 bcd yet?


102, as in old XTR?

https://www.garbaruk.com/102-bcd-oval.html

I could not find anything from OneUp, Wolf Tooth, or Absolute Black. looks like that BCD is pretty rare, so I would not expect a lot of options these days. It could not hurt to email the three I mentioned above to express your interest in such a thing. maybe they will be inspired to make some.

104 was so common for so long (and still around) that I would expect those to be around for a long time. the various direct mount systems and new Shimano asym ones will probably stick around longer. If you have old XTR cranks and really want to go oval, it's time to shop for new cranks.


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## mtbnutty (Aug 5, 2004)

Yes, older modded and polished XTR cranks. Not sure I want to trust a Polish company.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

mtbnutty said:


> Yes, older modded and polished XTR cranks. Not sure I want to trust a Polish company.


I might regret asking, but what's wrong with Polish? I guess that means Absolute Black is out, too?


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> To me, all this reads like a bunch of people who tried something new and liked it. If it does not work for you, that's fine. Don't discount others' subjective experience because you're not having it too.
> 
> What size/type of oval ring did you buy? Someone here will certainly buy it from you.


I dunno. This thread hype is absurd. Reads to me like the second coming. The maxxis dhf is actually a big deal and it doesn't have a thread like this.

Resell ring: i borrowed from friend after i broke my ring. Seriously was like having an itch i couldnt scratch and i never stopped feeling it. It just kept screwing with my kick. Was a relief to be back on a round ring.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

eri said:


> Was a relief to be back on a round ring.


you tried and it you didn't like it. good for you. seriously, you had an open mind to something new and it didn't pan out.

you know what else sounds like a lot of fanboyz on this forum to people who may or may not have tried it and didn't like it? riding a mountain bike with only one gear!


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

mack_turtle said:


> you know what else sounds like a lot of fanboyz on this forum to people who may or may not have tried it and didn't like it? riding a mountain bike with only one gear!


Ouch! Excellent point! 

Ill put the gimp hood back on now.

Ride on!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

eri said:


> I dunno. This thread hype is absurd. Reads to me like the second coming. The maxxis dhf is actually a big deal and it doesn't have a thread like this.
> 
> Resell ring: i borrowed from friend after i broke my ring. Seriously was like having an itch i couldnt scratch and i never stopped feeling it. It just kept screwing with my kick. Was a relief to be back on a round ring.


The DHF is big, heavy and slow. An Ikon is a much better choice.

My single speeds will always have oval rings. When I go back to round, I hate the loss of climbing traction.

Geared? Not fussed.


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## mtbnutty (Aug 5, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> I might regret asking, but what's wrong with Polish? I guess that means Absolute Black is out, too?


Fair question. I should have said, due to the disruption of nearly all businesses and supply chains because of Covid-19, especially in Europe, not sure I want to trust a Polish company to deliver right now.

Nothing inherently wrong being a Polish company. I order from all over the world and currently, product from the UK is slow but it gets here. Product from Europe is hit or miss. YMMV


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## mtbnutty (Aug 5, 2004)

Absolute Black is out because they don't make a 102 BCD oval ring.

Still wanting to know if there are other source options.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

eri said:


> I dunno. This thread hype is absurd. Reads to me like the second coming. The maxxis dhf is actually a big deal and it doesn't have a thread like this.
> 
> Resell ring: i borrowed from friend after i broke my ring. Seriously was like having an itch i couldnt scratch and i never stopped feeling it. It just kept screwing with my kick. Was a relief to be back on a round ring.


Haha, it sounds like too much hype to me and I've been running oval for many years. I got it because I had some knee issues. I don't know if it helped, but once my knee issues were gone I never went back to round. Now it feels as odd for me on a round ring as it does for you on an oval ring. I suspect the performance differences are overstated - I have friends who overstate them to the point of ridiculousness. I do think that it may help with fatigue, which makes you a little faster and a little stronger on a bigger ride. YMMV


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

What about chain tension on a oval ring? Does the oval cause the chain go from tight to loose? Obviously with a gear bike the derailer provides tension and I run a Wolf tooth oval ring on my geared bike but haven’t tried on my SS.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

hardmtnbiker said:


> What about chain tension on a oval ring? Does the oval cause the chain go from tight to loose? Obviously with a gear bike the derailer provides tension and I run a Wolf tooth oval ring on my geared bike but haven't tried on my SS.


I currently have 3 SS bikes and run ovals. They all go from loose to tight as the crank is turned, but its not extreme to cause any issues. If you have sliding dropouts, sometimes the setup is a bit difficult to get it right in the middle of being too tight or too loose though.

With narrow wide chainrings, I have never had a chain fall off.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

hardmtnbiker said:


> What about chain tension on a oval ring? Does the oval cause the chain go from tight to loose? Obviously with a gear bike the derailer provides tension and I run a Wolf tooth oval ring on my geared bike but haven't tried on my SS.


no. some round rings go loose/ tight, depending on the level of precision from the manufacturer. no chainring is perfectly round, or ... concentric (?). the same is true for oval rings. the oval ring does not cause any SIGNIFICANT amount of change in chain tension, but it the dimensions are just a tiny bit off, you can see it.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

I agree, every SS I’ve owned has to be adjusted to max tension point in the rotation and gets a little bit looser throughout the rotation. My concern is how loose with an oval ring compounding this issue? I’m really itching to try my SS with an oval ring but don’t want a loose chain.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

hardmtnbiker said:


> I agree, every SS I've owned has to be adjusted to max tension point in the rotation and gets a little bit looser throughout the rotation. My concern is how loose with an oval ring compounding this issue? I'm really itching to try my SS with an oval ring but don't want a loose chain.


I've never dropped a chain and am not looking at going "round" on an SS MTB ever again.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

everything you could want to know about oval rings- https://bikerumor.com/2020/03/27/aa...out-answers-to-your-oval-chainring-questions/


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

I've run one for years and love it. There is a minor change in tension, but I tend to run my chains a bit lose anyway. If the chainline and chain are good, no problem at all.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

SS Hack said:


> I've run one for years and love it. There is a minor change in tension, but I tend to run my chains a bit lose anyway. If the chainline and chain are good, no problem at all.


Thanks, I'll have to try it out then. I could actually take the one I have on my geared bike and check it out first. I like to keep my chain tight and I always rotate my crank to where the chain is tightest and pull my slider back and tighten it down. It gets only a bit looser but no where near enough to drop a chain. 
I'll try to see what this does with an oval ring on it, I don't want a smiley face chain Look.


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## i write a love theme (Mar 26, 2019)

I just swapped back today to round after about a year on an AB oval. I dont think I can feel any difference in a regular pedal stroke but I does seem easier to spin out on looser climbs with the round - like it's easier to meter your output with an oval ring. The oval ring made my SS setup LOUD tho. Just a rattling mess down the trail. The clocking on the AB makes it so when you have level pedals the chain is loose and it clacks and rattles away. I think the oval was generally neutral to positive for SS riding but i dont think I'll be switching back


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## offrhodes42 (May 1, 2009)

I just killed my rear derailleur on my Niner SIR 9. I am thinking of making this bike a SS, if the cost is significantly lower than a new GX rear derailleur and chain. I have a 30t AB oval chainring, but have not seen much on people running 30t rings. I assume an 18 or 19 cog, spacer kit for my rear wheel, and a chain (what kind?) are all I need? Any feedback from someone running a 30t oval?


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

just about any chain will work. if it's not terribly worn, the existing chain can be shortened and used for singlespeed. there have been some threads on chains and, while some are probably better than others, it really doesn't matter much what kind of chain you run. there's no compelling reason to use a "singlespeed" chain.

32/20 is where most people start for singlespeed gearings. a 19t cog would be pretty close to that with a 30t front. start there and if it's too spinny, get a 18t cog. if it's not spinny enough, use a 20t cog.


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