# Do we need to stop for school bus?



## ttper (Aug 29, 2008)

Hello, 

Do we need to stop for a stopped school bus? 
The other day, I passed a stopped school bus with its flashing alternating red lamps on on the other direction. There was a car following right behind me and the bus driver honked at the car to stop but didn't care about me when I continue to ride. 
I want to obey Traffic laws so please let me know.
Thank you.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

might be better safe than sorry. don't mess with the "safety" of people's kids. I don't worry that you're going to kill a kid with your bike, but people are really touchy about those kind of rules.


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## MTBerJim (May 26, 2005)

mack_turtle said:


> might be better safe than sorry. don't mess with the "safety" of people's kids. I don't worry that you're going to kill a kid with your bike, but people are really touchy about those kind of rules.


The problem is the same mother that will scream bloody murder at the top of her lungs about HER kid will have no problem talking on her mobile phone while cutting you off with her mini-van.

OK, I have been living on Long Island for to long----never mind.


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## Bikinaz (Jan 28, 2010)

You do here in AZ. You have the same laws as the cages.


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

Here in California one needs to abide by the rules of the roads that cars do, including stopping for the red lights flashing on a school bus.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

In some states (Illinois was one when I lived there) you get an mandatory automatic license suspension no judge, no jury, only the word of the arresting officer. You will be commuting only by bike in that case until the license is reinstated, plus the fine.

Having ridden a bus 12 years (rural), I concur with not cutting corners on this one. It is why I was so upset with the school bus driver who passed me on a blind hill (a reckless driving offense) only to stop 100 feet up the grade to drop off.


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## jseko (Jan 25, 2011)

MTBerJim said:


> The problem is the same mother that will scream bloody murder at the top of her lungs about HER kid will have no problem talking on her mobile phone while cutting you off with her Suburban
> 
> OK, I have been living on Long Island for to long----never mind.


Fixed it for ya


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

jseko said:


> Fixed it for ya


LOL! Perfect!!! Just substitute that with the biggest SUV available, of course, piloted by a woman talking on a non handsfree phone.


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## Jonesy33 (Mar 18, 2008)

Unless there's a very specific, compellling safety reason not to... Always obey the same rules as autos when using an auto lane... that's my two cents...

The more we as cyclists, with our own actions, show that we are law abiding users of the road, with all of the same priviliges and responsibilities, the more we will be treated as such.

Maybe when you stop for that bus driver, he'll notice that, and might actually think twice on his own car ride home about speeding up around your left to right turn right in front of you, or squeezing through when the lane is narrow and there's no space for passing by you safely. Maybe optimistic, but a little good will building never hurts.


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## JonathanGennick (Sep 15, 2006)

In Michigan there is no exception for cyclists. And really, that makes sense, because a bike zooming by the bus could just as easily hit and injure a kid as a car could.


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## Bikinaz (Jan 28, 2010)

Jonesy33 said:


> Unless there's a very specific, compellling safety reason not to... Always obey the same rules as autos when using an auto lane... that's my two cents...
> 
> The more we as cyclists, with our own actions, show that we are law abiding users of the road, with all of the same priviliges and responsibilities, the more we will be treated as such.
> 
> Maybe when you stop for that bus driver, he'll notice that, and might actually think twice on his own car ride home about speeding up around your left to right turn right in front of you, or squeezing through when the lane is narrow and there's no space for passing by you safely. Maybe optimistic, but a little good will building never hurts.


Plus you can never had too much good Karma. Murphy's law states; "He who passes a stopped school bus, will come out of the grocery store to an empty bike rack."


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## PscyclePath (Aug 29, 2007)

ttper said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do we need to stop for a stopped school bus?
> The other day, I passed a stopped school bus with its flashing alternating red lamps on on the other direction. There was a car following right behind me and the bus driver honked at the car to stop but didn't care about me when I continue to ride.
> ...


Short answer: * yes*. Cyclists are subject to the same traffic laws as other drivers.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

^^^^^ All true, but if you can pass safely before they turn the red lights on or put out that stopsign thingy, you're legal. Bikes have a lot more opportunity for this than cars.


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## 29Clyde (Jan 15, 2010)

Meh - I routinely hit a bus that stops for a bunch of snot nose kids who cannot for some reason wait at the bus stop. If I were to stop and wait it would easily cost me 5 minutes on my commute (I know, 5 minutes - the horror). I essentially come to a stop and survey the area and then ride past at a pace where a senior citizen using a walker would probably pass me. While not legal wrt to the letter of the law, I am in no way putting anyone in any risk, have a chance to flirt with the mothers dropping of their crumb snatchers, and save a good 2 minutes on my ride. Win, win, win.

I know that I am a bit of an outlier but I prefer to follow the intent of the law and safety over the letter of the law. Just because the light is green and I have right of way, I don't blindly roll through an intersection. And if I hit a red light at 6AM. stop and can see no cars in either direction on the cross street, I will roll on through.


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## Squash (Jul 20, 2003)

It will certainly depend on your state and local laws. There aren't many states or localities anymore where traffic laws don't apply to bikes. And that includes stopping for school buses loading and unloading. Here in Iowa, if the red lights are flashing, and for those buses so equipped which is most, the stop sign is out, you better stop or face one whopping big fine minimum! And there doesn't need to be a police officer present. If the bus driver can get a license number, you'll be getting a ticket in the mail! Not so much of a problem with a bike of course, no license plate, etc. But it's not just the letter of the law it's also the spirit of the law. The spirit of the law is to protect the kids. I don't care how careful you are or how slow you go, kids are unpredictable. Even moving at a walking pace, if a kid just isn't paying attention and pops out in front of you and you hit them, you will likely hurt them. I'm sorry it's simple physics, 175lb rider + 20lbs bike vs. 80lbs kid, kid loses! May only hurt them in the most minor way, but guess what, you are subject to both criminal and civil actions! The bottom line is, if where you live traffic laws apply to bikes, then so does this law. If you don't stop for a school bus loading or unloading, you ARE breaking the law. No matter how you rationalize it, you have committed a moving violation and are subject to the maximum penalty(s) that the law allows. 

You pays your money and you takes your chances. Personally, I wouldn't chance it.

Good Dirt


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Usually a bus stop is fairly fast. Though I hate it when a driver right hooks me THEN immediately stops with all signals. I avoid that time of day as much as possible. 

So it usually isn't long and is like asking drivers not to be impatient with us. In the case of a repeated slow load/disloading school bus on your route, why not walk the bike past? If you are going slow anyway, why not make it legal? AFAIK the rules do not apply to a pedestrian whether dismounted from a bike or bike less. Those fines are BIG. The bus driver can request a cruiser to monitor a repeat offender when they can't get a plate. It is hard to ask motorists to respect us and share the road if we can be seen as threatening to their kids. Remember too, that these kids become drivers, all too soon. Setting a good example and giving respect plays here.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> Just substitute that with the biggest SUV available, of course, piloted by a woman talking on a non handsfree phone.


Hey, whatever phone is cool as long as the driver has a hands free steering wheel!

ttper, it looks like you already got plenty of answers, but I just wanted to add my personal exprience. For a whileI seemed to get stuck behind the same stinkin bus at least three mornings per week. Wait, bus pulls ahead and stops, I catch up at the next stop and have to wait again, then again at the next stop. One morning I said "screw it" and went past. By the time the bus caught up to me again, I was out of the residantial zone, so no more pick ups- it worked for me. Plenty safe, no ticket came in the mail and I didn`t get the evil eye from anybody (as far as I know), but it just felt so wrong that I didn`t do it again. It`s that karma thing, maybe. That and I don`t want to be a part of the bad image for cyclists in general.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

BrianMc said:


> In the case of a repeated slow load/disloading school bus on your route, why not walk the bike past? If you are going slow anyway, why not make it legal? AFAIK the rules do not apply to a pedestrian whether dismounted from a bike or bike less.


Good idea :thumbsup:


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## Timeless (Mar 23, 2007)

Legally no you can not do it but chances are nothing will happen to you and often times bus drivers will just wave you by.
Problem is you run into cop on a bad day and he can slap you will some pretty nasty fines.


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## poundCake! (Jun 28, 2011)

I will admit that I will take liberties with the rules of the road as long as I don't impede anyone. I will also take full responsiblity if I am at fault.

I will judge each situation differently and make a decision based on common sense and if it means waiting a bit for a school bus then so be it.


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## nuck_chorris (Jun 6, 2008)

yes , you should stop. that being said many people in cars dont bother


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## J_Hopper (Mar 5, 2005)

ttper said:


> Hello,
> 
> Do we need to stop for a stopped school bus?
> The other day, I passed a stopped school bus with its flashing alternating red lamps on on the other direction. There was a car following right behind me and the bus driver honked at the car to stop but didn't care about me when I continue to ride.
> ...


*
In Washington:*

If you're riding on the roadway, yes, you are the same as a motor vehicle.

If you're riding on the sidewalk or in a crosswalk, no, you are the same as a pedestrian (though you must yield to a pedestrian should one happen to also be on the sidewalk or in the crosswalk).


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## SandSquid (Jun 19, 2010)

I don't mean to pick in the original poster at all, I'd rather see these question aired out here, than on the street, in a courtroom, hospital, or morgue.

I'm not an attorney, but when I'm not stuck on recall/deployment and avid (rabid) bicycle commuter (4 days/100 miles a week) and I am also a LEO, _a critical & fatal crash investigator to be specific_. I've stood over the bodies of cyclists on many occasions, I have to say it's about 50/50 whether the cyclist was doing something illegal at the time of the crash, or did something that was a major contributing factor to the crash. Believe me I will throw every applicable charge available upon the cager, but by the same token I will also charge the cyclist where appropriate.

And nothing p!sses me off more than some self righteous jackhat that wants to crow about their rights to the road, but only when it is convenient to them. And when it is not convenient to them they act like they are above the law, or ignorant to it, or come up with some [email protected] excuse like "I ran the red light because I was afraid I was not going to clear the intersection in time", my response is "then get off and push the pedestrian crossing button and walk across, sign here."

Am I being a [email protected] about it? Yes I am. Now, I'm not about to harass someone for "obstructing the flow of traffic" because, hey that's part of the game, as long as they are being legal about it. But purposely hogging the center lane to just to assert yourself and be a jerk, yup we are having some words. Same goes for running red lights, stop signs, school busses, going the wrong way on a 1-way street.... The law is the law, and nobody is above the law.

I have this sticker on my bikes, my POV and on the light-bar and rear bumper of my patrol vehicle, and I make NO EXCEPTIONS to it:










I don't want to come off sounding like a "typical pig", because I'm not, as a cyclist and a LEO, I understand the challenges we cyclists are faced with, and realize the only way we are going to be tolerated (sorry but we will never be accepted until gasoline is $10.00 a gallon) is if we all obey every applicable traffic law, not just those that are convenient to us at the time. And believe me I take every opportunity to educate my fellow LEO's about cyclists rights. My personal cell phone rings quite a bit with cyclist related questions.

Sorry to go off on such a rant, it was not my intention, but this subject just gets my dander up...

Just remember:
*Same Roads, Same Rights, Same Rules* 
and not just when it is convenient.


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## sortie39 (Jul 14, 2011)

good Q!


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and divulge a bit of "unsavory" information about myself that is sure to garner mass amounts of neg. rep. 

I bend the ever- loving crap out of the rules. I run reds( if I think I'm clear or fast enough after a stop), I take the lane on busy roads and sometimes refuse to give a car the right away if I feel unsafe( even if it's theirs) among other things. 

All this being said; I think I am a safer than most cyclist and I would blast those flashing stop signs on a few occasions: I stopped and think the kids are far enough away, I'm fast enough to get by before they are off the bus, I evil eye the cross walk person and they give me the head nod go- ahead. Also, kids age would be a factor; high- school kids, I'm running them sh*t's; Younger, I'm going to play it a little more cautious.


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## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

Good post SandSquid. Sums it up perfectly.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

I am glad I will be moving out of my community in the not too distant future. I stop for school buses. I'd walk my bike by if it was going to be a long drop-off or pick-up and worth the dismount/remount.. 

Here my bumper sticker would be "Same Roads. Same Rights. Same Ignoring Rules."

I wish the local constabulary enforced the rules of the road on everyone. So cherish the ticket writers who keep the rules and retrain drivers. Here, they seem to apply them to no one. Cars running stops and lights are par for the course as are illegal turns into the wrong lane (where I am) and just really sloppy inconsiderate driving habits in general. They don't even know they screwed up. Driver training is a joke and they forget what little they knew. I have been in the intersection crosssing in front of a car that just got to the stop line (not stopped yet) and they begin to accellerate into the intersection. They didn't take enough time to look AT ALL! I powered out of the way. Not enough time for more than a yell. It was a major downtown intersection, so pedestrians are frequent too. Just plain nuts.

I have learned to ride safely first and by rules second. I'd rather be alive than 'dead right'. So be it. It IS a jungle out there on my streets. Even school bus drivers fer cryin' out loud! Don't get me started on kids when High School lets out: Run for your lives! Rant over. 

Cherish law enforcement. It civilizes the roads for everyone.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

SandSquid said:


> Just remember:
> *Same Roads, Same Rights, Same Rules*
> and not just when it is convenient.


How about adding "Same Privileges" to this? Here in the state of WA, as in many other states, traveling to your desired destination is a right; how you get there (car, bus, bike, motorized or otherwise) via a public road is a privilege. People kinda forget this, often. Kinda frames all the "my rights" attitudes, whether in a cage or on two wheels, differently, doesn't it?


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## Mattlikestobike (Nov 1, 2010)

if i were you, I would reccomend you STOP for the bus, because a bike, even though powered by human, is still a "motorized Vehicle"


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## jsilva (Jul 20, 2011)

monzie said:


> I'm going to go out on a limb here and divulge a bit of "unsavory" information about myself that is sure to garner mass amounts of neg. rep.


It's not that I dont understand where you're coming from, but even if a cyclist is being careful when they bend the rules they are not looking at the bigger picture. The respect for all cyclists is hurt and this makes cycling on the road more dangerous. Who's to say that when a motorist cuts off the next cyclist they won't cut it extra close because they're annoyed?

The point is that it's not about individuals and individual circumstances, we all need to follow the rules for the sake of other cyclists!


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

yes, it concerns children's safety. act like an adult and be patient.


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## fell_brook (Mar 14, 2011)

practice your track stands.


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

What about (in residential areas) hopping the curb and slowly pedaling on by on the opposite sidewalk? Legal?


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

dcc1234 said:


> What about (in residential areas) hopping the curb and slowly pedaling on by on the opposite sidewalk? Legal?


Legal or not, Why? Cross street, ride at a snail`s pace, hop curb, cross back... by the time you get yourself back to rolling merrily along the bus will already be two stops ahead and in somebody else`s way while you`re still messing around with the previous stop 

Seriously though, if you go through all that trouble, why not just "convert" yourself into a pedestrian (as suggested in post #16) walk right by, then hop on and go? At least from my point of view it sounds simpler, quicker, probably legal, and not likely to piss anybody off. The only way I can see to satisfy all those points and still end up ahead of the bus. I haven`t tried it yet, but in theory it sounds perfect.


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## dcc1234 (Nov 5, 2008)

rodar y rodar said:


> L
> 
> Seriously though, if you go through all that trouble, why not just "convert" yourself into a pedestrian (as suggested in post #16) walk right by, then hop on and go? At least from my point of view it sounds simpler, quicker, probably legal, and not likely to piss anybody off. The only way I can see to satisfy all those points and still end up ahead of the bus. I haven`t tried it yet, but in theory it sounds perfect.


Thx for reply. Its just a bit more fun to keep moving and hop curbs vs stop. But I see your point about not pissing off the natives


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## fell_brook (Mar 14, 2011)

Here in Pa it's illegal to ride a bike on a sidewalk unless your under a certain age.(12?)


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