# Bicycle Blue Book website prices are way off!



## partusa (Nov 18, 2011)

I checked several bikes prices on Bicycle Blue Book - Used Bikes and IMO they are way off. If they can sell me a bike for the money that they claim the bike is worth I'll have a basement full of bikes. Where do these guys get the prices from? 
Anybody else find this prices/website to be inaccurate?

To get a few
2012 Yeti Cycles SB-95 (Race Build Kit) 
BBB Value
$2,311 (Like-New)
$2,201 (Excellent)
$1,981 (Good)
$1,475 (Fair)

2013 Niner Air 9 RDO XTR
BBB Value
$3,498 (Like-New)
$3,331 (Excellent)
$2,998 (Good)
$2,232 (Fair)


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Hmm, interesting. Couple things: 
I find prices vary pretty dramatically both geographically and seasonally. 

Dead of winter, bikes both new and used go a LOT cheaper than now, when the mud is drying, the snow is melting, and people are getting their tax returns. 

Secondly, I find craigslist (where sellers don't ship) prices can vary significantly based geographic location, being cheaper the further you are from good trails. On ebay and other sites which are buy-and-ship, prices are a little more stable. 

Thirdly, in my observation, S and XL bikes go a little cheaper. I haven't figured out why. It makes sense that demand is lower for these sizes, but you'd think that supply would also be lower. 

Anyways these factors can skew the avg price on bbb and it may seem to low for some and too high for others. 

But that being said, you may be right. And I haven't figured out where bbb gets its data:

You can scrape eBay and get prices for completed fixed price and auction listings but not best offers. This is a pretty good source for market prices. 

Other than that, there's no reliable source for sold prices. On Craigslist, pinbike and mtbr classifieds, you see the list price but have no idea on the actual negotiated final price.


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## partusa (Nov 18, 2011)

ddprocter said:


> Hmm, interesting. Couple things:
> I find prices vary pretty dramatically both geographically and seasonally....


Completely agree!


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Their prices are actually pretty accurate and are an average of that bikes going prices across the web.

From their own site:
The Bicycle Blue Book Promise:

Our database contains 7+ years of transaction data for bikes built all the way back in 1993. Using a proprietary algorithm crafted by a combination of bicycle industry veterans and technology experts (herein referred to as nerds), we feel confident that this is the best used bike valuation tool you'll find anywhere online. 

Accuracy Matters

We've pored over two million sales records – both for bicycles and bike related items – filtering out the good data from the bad. From that good data, we can give you the most comprehensive, reliable, accurate, up-to-date valuation for your used bicycle based on year, make, model, and MSRP. In fact, if we don't have all of the necessary information, you're the first one to know. Wrong valuation is no valuation at all. That's why data is our top priority.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Base on 6 bikes I checked I think they are pretty good. I wish the two bikes I am selling were worth more but the market response is about right.


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## fontarin (May 11, 2011)

They've been pretty close on bikes i've bought/sold.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

they probably jsut steal all there data from ebay sold listing which are the actual onilne market value for selling a used bike. bike blue book website pretty useless in comparison.


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## jetboy23 (Jun 14, 2011)

They seem to give decent ball park figures from what i've seen. As always, this doesn't account for what a seller "thinks" his bike is worth.


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## menusk (Jun 27, 2009)

a quick check on pink bike shows similar bikes to those you mentioned and yup pricing is correct. And they are still best offer. The used bike market is huge and the original purchaser takes a big hit on the initial price they bought it for. That's a good thing for the rest of us right?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

*Bicycle Blue Book and why we shouldn't use it...*

I really hate that site and you should too. First, a bicycle is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. It's been that way for years and people on ebay and craigslist find out what their bike is really worth based on if it sells for the asking price or not. But the reason that site should not used is for YOUR sake. Your insurance. Here's two examples why it doesn't benefit any of us. (FWIW, I've worked at bike shops for the past 13 of 15 years.)

I went to my insurance agent for renters insurance (Allstate FWIW). I told him that the retail of the bikes in my apartment were about $20,000 and the rest of the stuff was X amount. He gave me a price and the explanation that it covers fire and theft. I asked him that if the bike got stolen off the truck, does the renters or the car insurance cover it? He told me that the renters will cover it. Bill knows that I'm involved with trail building and racing and other stuff too. I asked if the bikes got stolen, how much do I get back? Is there a depreciation? He said that "There's no depreciation because there's no way to know what the fair market value would be. There's no Kelly Blue Book for bikes." He said, laughing. He also called the companies main source and spoke to someone there. He looked at me shaking his head no and said to the other person "he's not a professional rider". After a minute of being on the phone he hung up and explained that if I was a professional rider, the bicycle company that I raced for would be the one who covered the lost or stolen bike since they're the actual owner of that specific bicycle. He also said to keep the receipts somewhere safe in case I need to show how much the bike was worth. Therefore, if my now old Sunday was stolen, I'd still get my $5,000 back from Allstate as long as I have the proof of purchase. Even though that bike is discontinued and IH is out of business, I still have proof and a check will be given for that amount. With Bicycle Blue Book, the insurance companies can now grade your bike and only give you what the site says it's worth. Is that good for us?

Proof that insurances pay you 100% for your loss was when I was at the shop and a guy came in to buy a bike to replace his stolen Trek Y22 carbon from the late 90's early 2000's. He was in Atlantic City and they cut the cable and took off with the bike. Caught on camera and written up by the police, they told him that they'll never get it back and to turn it in to his insurance. He called Trek and asked what todays equivalent was. They told him that the Fuel 9.8 or 9.9 was the equivalent in todays market. He had to pay us a $500 deposit and have us write up a receipt with todays current cost. The idiot wanted 2 mirrors, a saddle bag, tools, a rack, a bag for the rack, head light, tail light and bar ends on it since that's what his old bike had on it. We wrote it up and ordered it for him. He asked Bill to "mark it up a little", but Bill told him he wouldn't because the insurance company could simply call without identifying themselves and ask how much one cost or look it up online themselves. Bill told him that the shop could get in trouble for committing fraud. The guy backed off and let Bill do it the way he should. He turned in the receipt to the insurance company and they wrote out the check. When we cleared the check, the guy came by and picked up this beautiful bike that was ruined before it even left the shop. Point? A bike that we wouldn't pay $500 for today, but meant something to the owner was replaced by the insurance company without any hassles. We see this about 3 times a year where people have a bike with sentimental value and they contact their insurance. Sometimes it's only a $400 bike and they have a $500 deductible, but LOVED their bike and want the same one.
Today or tomorrow though, we might be told our 2 year old custom build that we did on our own and cost us $6,000 might only be worth $1,200 based on Bicycle Blue Book.

Thoughts?

Ttyl, Fahn


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## Brockwan (Aug 6, 2013)

its a good guide to what the market is selling them for. but only a guide its not the end all.

what your saying is we just make up a price? craigslist is that way ----->


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> Thoughts?


Don't call a paying customer "The Idiot".


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

So the (low) moral(es) of this story is that if Bike Blue Book keeps on existing, and insurance companies find out, then we can't stick it to the insurance companies, and end up getting far more than we know our bikes are worth? 

I wonder why my premiums are so high...


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Brockwan said:


> what your saying is we just make up a price? craigslist is that way ----->


Yep. That's how it worked for years. You don't have to buy it if it's too high and the seller won't sell it if it's too high. Right?

My renters insurance was $15 a month. If you shop around you won't overpay. That's what I found out. But if you for some reason think that your insurance is going to come down now, we'll good luck with that. But when you need your insurance, let's see if they pay you the original value or a deprecated value? Fahn


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

*Re: Bicycle Blue Book and why we shouldn't use it...*

So, what you're saying is, we shouldn't rely on bicycle blue book for private sales, because insurance companies either aren't aware of it or don't trust it.

That's a non sequitur. BBB isn't perfect but we shouldn't expect it to be. Bike prices vary significantly by season and geography. The same bike will go for much different prices in Dec vs April. The site doesnt have a good way to account for upgrades, because the upgrade landscape is so diverse. But despite those limitations, it's a decent starting point but it should be correlated with other sources like eBay, Craigslist, mtbr and pink bike, regardless of whether you're the buyer or the seller.

Kelly blue book is far from perfect as well and it can be off by +/- 20% for similar reasons.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

Allstate offers two types of renters insurance. The version you got is less costly not because of BBB.
From their site---

Will my policy pay to replace my belongings?

The value of most of your belongings decreases over time. With Allstate® Renters Insurance,
you are able to choose one of the personal property coverages below.
• Actual Cash Value typically means your belongings are covered for their replacement
cost minus depreciation. Depreciation is the decrease in an item's value due to its age,
condition or other factors. 
• Reimbursement Provision typically means your belongings are covered for the amount it
would take to replace them at the time of the claim. Premiums are usually higher for this coverage. 

Here's how the Reimbursement Provision works: ◦First, we pay you for the Actual Cash Value of the item
◦When you replace the item, we issue a separate check for the remaining amount
needed to make the purchase.

Price out the replacement value variety(general name in the market place) between companies and buy the coverage you are trying to concoct.


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## beshannon (Oct 14, 2012)

Just another piece of information to add to the equation


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

That's one angry blog. Go relax and have a beer, its just a website.


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## skene (May 26, 2013)

While generally the BBB can only offer a general idea of what a bike is worth, I do not feel that insurance companies can use that for a general guide line. 
When you have something like KBB which has established itself based on vehicle deterioration due to mileage and condition and sales at local auctions. Bicycles do not offer the same type of guide to base pricing on. A $1000 bicycle can be purchased hardly ridden and still have the little hairs on the original tires, but be sold for $50 because the owner wants to get rid of it. There is no definitive on how many miles you put on the bike, the amount of wear that went into "X" miles.
So it can only BBB can only be based on what they see monitored on a site like CL or Ebay. Hardly a solid method of determining what the value of a bike can be. Until a solid method of determining the depreciation of a bicycle other than age, BBB is only as good as an open source method of reference.
If per say now that bicycle shops created a nationwide auction house of used bicycles, documented regional sales, the same way KBB does... and sold/resold those same bicycles based on condition, wear etc. Then insurance companies would look into that as being a pricing guideline that they can follow.


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## johnb (Feb 8, 2004)

Your hate it, just because it doesn't suit your current financial needs?
I'm sure KBB, when it started, was not very useful or accurate. But that has obviously changed.
Did it occur to you that BBB will do the same? And that someday, when it has improved to the level that KBB has, that it might be useful to you when selling a bike?
What will you do then? Like it for that one time, and then return to hating it?
See my point?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

It has nothing to do with my "financial needs". I got married and bought a house... There's no need for the renters insurance anymore. We do take pics of new purchases that we want insured and call up once a year to see the agent and re-evaluate what we have. You should too. I just figured that people who had their belongings stolen or lost would like the full value of some things back instead of a deprecated value. Besides, it's rare to see insurance companies do something nice for the customer anymore. 
Also if it "has improved to the level that KBB has" wouldn't the insurance companies find more reason to use it and depreciate the value of your bikes? 

Like I said before about bike value- people will pay what they want for a bicycle. 

Someone on here or another DH forum posted about selling a 2002 S bighit with a 24" rear wheel. First replies were $300. Then people found out that it had the Shimano Airlines. People kept replying nonchalantly that "I might pay X". There's a bike that could/may have sold for over $2,000. Let's be honest though, bbb wouldn't have it listed at that, right? To me it's not "here's the price you should ask/pay" it's what the bike is worth to the buyer. Definitely not an insurance company either.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

There are too many variable when it comes to selling/buying a used bike.......the Blue Book is only a guide and not a bible to what something is worth. Too many mix and match parts/components/sizes.

With cars you can look at the odometer and check the mileage.....on a bike, you can't really tell how much it has been ridden. 

You can usually come up with a general value for the bike....just based on a little research.

As for the insurance angle......that is why we are insured for actual cost to replace with equal items.


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## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

I thought the bottom-line method most insurance companies use in their estimation of payout on destroyed/stolen property was replacement cost? Bicycle Blue Book is a tool to establish used resale value, not replacement cost. I never had a bike stolen, but I have had never-to-be-sufficiently-damned dirtbags break into my vehicle numerous times, requiring replacement of stolen stereos and such. The insurance company looked for the same model, and if not available they would establish with the equipment manufacturer or retail sales location a comparable replacement. They don't go looking for some sort of used value. 

I would not worry about BBB being used by insurance companies. If you have any doubts, look at your policy. It will state in black and white what the insurance company will give you when you make a claim and what they go by. If it states "fair market value" then they perhaps could use BBB, or Craigslist, or Ebay, or even poll garage sales in your area and give you only an estimated used sales value. Most policies will probably state "retail replacement value" or something similar, which means you get something new that is comparable or the equivalent cash payout. In some cases they will have a scale to pro-rate replacement payouts, on items they have determined have an established rate of depreciation. 

Look at your policy. It is a contract, and when you agree to it you give the insurance company whatever rights it contains.


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## digitalayon (Jul 31, 2007)

well ****.....my bike came from Europe and it was nothing but Shimano accera on it and cost over 1400 bucks. I upgraded the whole thing....should it be valued at 2,500?


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## bbeltramo (Aug 7, 2012)

*Bicycle Blue Book and why we shouldn't use it...*

Or like eb1888 said, you could just make sure your insurance covers actual replacement cost and not worry about depreciated value. Which reminds me, I do need to call and update my insurance for the first time in like 3 years lol


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

LarryFahn said:


> Proof that insurances pay you 100% for your loss was when I was at the shop and a guy came in to buy a bike to replace his stolen Trek Y22 carbon from the late 90's early 2000's. He was in Atlantic City and they cut the cable and took off with the bike. Caught on camera and written up by the police, they told him that they'll never get it back and to turn it in to his insurance. He called Trek and asked what todays equivalent was. They told him that the Fuel 9.8 or 9.9 was the equivalent in todays market. He had to pay us a $500 deposit and have us write up a receipt with todays current cost. The idiot wanted 2 mirrors, a saddle bag, tools, a rack, a bag for the rack, head light, tail light and bar ends on it since that's what his old bike had on it. We wrote it up and ordered it for him. He asked Bill to "mark it up a little", but Bill told him he wouldn't because the insurance company could simply call without identifying themselves and ask how much one cost or look it up online themselves. Bill told him that the shop could get in trouble for committing fraud. The guy backed off and let Bill do it the way he should. He turned in the receipt to the insurance company and they wrote out the check. When we cleared the check, the guy came by and picked up this beautiful bike that was ruined before it even left the shop. Point? A bike that we wouldn't pay $500 for today, but meant something to the owner was replaced by the insurance company without any hassles. We see this about 3 times a year where people have a bike with sentimental value and they contact their insurance. Sometimes it's only a $400 bike and they have a $500 deductible, but LOVED their bike and want the same one.
> Today or tomorrow though, we might be told our 2 year old custom build that we did on our own and cost us $6,000 might only be worth $1,200 based on Bicycle Blue Book.
> 
> Thoughts?


Sentimental value? I call bs. That guy, along with the two or three others you see per year are way more likely to be giddy knowing they get to cash in on some old pos bike that they've been itching to upgrade but didn't have the cash to do it. I've witnessed this many times, someone looses a $200 klunker and suddenly they remember it was made from solid gold.

My opinion is that anyone who trusts their "beloved" bicycle to be safe and sound with a cable guarding it (in Atlantic City no less!!) is getting a valuable life lesson when it is inevitably stolon, free of charge.


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## waterbearcycles (Mar 22, 2017)

Bicycle Blue Book’s posted used bike values are way off the mark for what used bikes are actually selling on eBay and CL. I can only assume they post ultra low values on bikes on their website in hopes to buy bikes super cheap from the “uneducated” public and then turn around and re sell them on eBay and CL for way more than their own posted values. I’ve spoke to them directly them with this acusation and they told me point blank they need to turn a profit and they are aware that their values are low. I would recommend not using Bicycle Blue Book as a source to determine what your bike is worth or what you should be paying for a used bike. BBB posting low values is devaluing the bicycle industry’s products and it affects the market as a whole at the retail and manufacturing level. Bikes are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and they don’t depreciate 60%+ after the first year. A $4500 Bicycle doesn’t depreciate to $1400 in a year. Bicycle Blue Book really needs to start doing a better job when determining bicycle depreciate. -WaterBear Cycles


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

One thread bump with the same rant per subforum should suffice dude! :lol:


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

$2300 for a 6 year old bike? Nope!


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

In my opinion, Bicycle Blue Book prices are too low.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I went ahead and merged these 2 topics together since they are so similar.

Also -Waterbear - did you really sign up for MTBR just to post the same exact cut and paste rant 3 times? I deleted your other 2 posts.


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## waterbearcycles (Mar 22, 2017)

Sorry, new to posting on an MTBR forum. Wasn’t seeing my so called “rant” show up so I guess I submitted more than once unknowing what I was doing. Just trying to raise awareness to my fellow cyclists and help preserve the value of the bikes we all work so hard to afford 😊


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## waterbearcycles (Mar 22, 2017)

Didn’t mean to post more than once. Was’t seeing my “rant” show up at first so I guess I submitted a few times not knowing it was posting several times. Sorry


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Looks like you just did it again...


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## Lombard (Dec 7, 2017)

From my experience BBB prices do seem on the low side. But it is difficult to pinpoint a true value because there are so many different variables.

Medium or Large frame - more $$, XS or XL frame - less $$

There can be a wide range of condition, mileage, upgrades, downgrades, etc.

If you are willing to ship, your bike will fetch more $$ as you will attract a much larger pool of buyers. 

Craigslist is usually best for buyers - low side.

Ebay is usually best for sellers - high side. If it's an auction, all you need is two emotional bidders to force the price way up.


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## idividebyzero (Sep 25, 2014)

> A $4500 Bicycle doesn't depreciate to $1400 in a year


It should depreciate more, $2000 minimum. It loses about that much the second it leaves the dealer.

If you want used bikes to be worth more then get manufacturers to do transferable warranties. The warranty alone is worth about half the price of the bike, only an idiot would pay a few hundred less for a bike without a warranty. Anything with a transferable warranty will have very high resale value, like stuff made by Apple.


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## KT1CA (Feb 27, 2018)

The prices are low on BBB.. But that didn't help much when trying to use that when I was looking for a bike.. A seller can hold out and on them how much they sell it for...


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## Lombard (Dec 7, 2017)

KT1CA said:


> The prices are low on BBB.. But that didn't help much when trying to use that when I was looking for a bike.. A seller can hold out and on them how much they sell it for...


The definition of market price:

The price that a buyer is willing to pay that a seller is willing to accept.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

I have a steel frame that I upgraded everything on. BBB says my bike is worth 171.00
The seatpost is worth more than that.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

waterbearcycles said:


> Bicycle Blue Book's posted used bike values are way off the mark for what used bikes are actually selling on eBay and CL. I can only assume they post ultra low values on bikes on their website in hopes to buy bikes super cheap from the "uneducated" public and then turn around and re sell them on eBay and CL for way more than their own posted values. I've spoke to them directly them with this acusation and they told me point blank they need to turn a profit and they are aware that their values are low. I would recommend not using Bicycle Blue Book as a source to determine what your bike is worth or what you should be paying for a used bike. BBB posting low values is devaluing the bicycle industry's products and it affects the market as a whole at the retail and manufacturing level. Bikes are worth what someone is willing to pay for them and they don't depreciate 60%+ after the first year. A $4500 Bicycle doesn't depreciate to $1400 in a year. Bicycle Blue Book really needs to start doing a better job when determining bicycle depreciate. -WaterBear Cycles


Welcome to capitalism. This is what used-car dealers do all the time, almost 100% of the time. They take a mechanic, open your hood, kick your tires, and then give you a list of about 20 problems that will devalue your used car trade-in or direct sale. Then after a customer trades it in for about 1/3 the price they could have sold it as a private party, the dealership throws on a bunch of cheap refurbished parts with at-cost labor in their own shop, maybe spend $300-600 fixing up the car, then sell it for $2000-4000 more than they paid for it on the trade-in. $1400-3700 net profit. It happens because the market has a demand for used cars, just like used bikes. As long as nothing is illegal I don't know what the problem is. Yes it's shady but again this is how capitalism works. Capitalism is not clean, but it's a necessary evil. Karl Marx wrote quite a bit on how dirty capitalism can be. But that doesn't mean it should just go away. If you feel practices like the above are unethical you are certainly free to contact your local or state representative.


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## Lombard (Dec 7, 2017)

sfgiantsfan said:


> I have a steel frame that I upgraded everything on. BBB says my bike is worth 171.00
> The seatpost is worth more than that.


I'm pretty sure BBB guestimates are based on original componentry.

It's pretty much common knowledge that you will never recover 100% on any upgrades.


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

I did a fun exercise to figure the value of my '88 Stumpjumper, which I can't even find on BBB:

(1) craigslist (current listing asking prices only): under $200 to over $600

(2) eBay, sold listings, average of 3: around $300

(3) eBay, sold listings for the frame, wheels, and most of the parts (all from "vintage" SJs): almost $600

#2 might be higher but I can't see what an item sold for when "best offer" was accepted. Several asking prices were well over $400.

Never figured u-brakes and Biopace CRs were worth that much!


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Lombard said:


> I'm pretty sure BBB guestimates are based on original componentry.
> 
> It's pretty much common knowledge that you will never recover 100% on any upgrades.


Of course not, but if my bike was stolen and my insurance went by BBB...


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## Lombard (Dec 7, 2017)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Of course not, but if my bike was stolen and my insurance went by BBB...


Well yeah. Unless you had your insurance look over your upgraded bike, how do they know what components are on it? They will assume it all original.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Lombard said:


> Well yeah. Unless you had your insurance look over your upgraded bike, how do they know what components are on it? They will assume it all original.


Pictures.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Don’t worry the insurance companies don’t add value for upgrades anyway.


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## Darth Lefty (Sep 29, 2014)

I don't know if they were in 2014, but they are associated now with Performance Bike and they sell on eBay
bicycle trade in program
BicycleBlueBook | eBay Stores


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Don't worry the insurance companies don't add value for upgrades anyway.


I would probably just try to claim the wheels anyway, I wonder if that would work. I have receipts for them. I'm going to email my agent later


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## Guest (Mar 1, 2018)

Lombard said:


> I'm pretty sure BBB guestimates are based on original componentry.
> 
> It's pretty much common knowledge that you will never recover 100% on any upgrades.


1/3 is the norm.


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## Lombard (Dec 7, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Don't worry the insurance companies don't add value for upgrades anyway.


I didn't think so.



sfgiantsfan said:


> I would probably just try to claim the wheels anyway, I wonder if that would work.


I doubt it, but it never hurts to ask.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Don't worry the insurance companies don't add value for upgrades anyway.


This isn't always true. I made a claim on a destroyed bike once and my insurance company replaced the bike and added value for upgrades, to include a recently replaced chain.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## evilteddy (Jul 3, 2017)

Interesting thread.

Here are a few examples regarding why I think BBB's pricing is suspect:

(1) 2017 Fuji Jari 1.1 - BBB states MSRP as $2949. Their "Private Party Value," (PPV) which we can assume is slightly higher than what BBB would offer if they took this bike in on trade, is $1065 - 1096. I can promise you that you will not find a one year old, used Fuji Jari 1.1 anywhere for $1069 - that's roughly 1/3rd the value of the bike new, assuming you paid MSRP. Even if you bought new at a heavy discount, let's say $2200, that's still only 50% depreciation in a one year. More importantly, I very much doubt that any private party sale transaction data supports that one is available at this price. Maybe BBB took one in on trade through a partner for this price, and so it's based on an actual transaction, but it's not remotely representative of the average price for a private sale based on what I see on other sites.

(2) 2015 Fuji Tahoe 1.1 - MSRP $1829. Suggested PPV in excellent condition: $480-494. I owned this very bike, paying ~ $1400 for it in early 2016. In 3Q 2017 I resold it - I would rate condition as excellent - for $900 and was offered $750-800 by at least 2 other prospective buyers. I don't think my experience is unique here - I had a late model bicycle in excellent condition, and I sold it for 50% of MSRP retail when BBB says it was worth only 27%. (granted, I didn't make note of BBB's data in 3Q 2017 when I sold my bike - but I did consult the site at the time and thought their suggested PPV was too low)

(3) 2016 Salsa Warbird Carbon Rival 22 - $3499 new, $1387-1427 suggested PPV. I submit that in 2018 you will _never_ find an excellent condition Salsa Warbird for even close to this price from any private party. Not going to happen.

(4) 2017 Niner RLT 9 1-Star Tiagra - $1500 new. Suggested PPV $593-600. Again, you'll never find this bike for the suggested PPV - you can easily resell an RLT frame by itself for more than the suggested PPV - and I do not believe for a minute that the suggested price is based on actual private party transaction data.

BBB's business isn't just valuing used bicycles, they've also created a marketplace wherein they are the sole buyer and re-seller. It's a reasonable conjecture that they're using the valuation part of the business to create a high volume resale business, the latter generating significant revenue. Simply put, to create a viable marketplace and successful business in the used bike trade, BBB needs to buy things for less than they resell them, and do so at a scale that generates significant revenue. Their business model does not appear to be centered on buying expensive, boutique bikes that sell at big markups and sit in inventory for months - that could be an interesting sideline business if they wanted to own a bigger piece of the resale market - this is more like smaller markups ($50-300?) and lots of transaction volume generating cash flow from what must be a pretty large base of used bicycles otherwise collecting dust in basements & garages.

Based on what BBB has said in various magazine interviews, it seems likely that the listed PPV price is supported by actual transaction data in some cases (or they'd be telling an outright lie, which I doubt), but I think the examples provided above illustrate that actual PPV data in some cases is (a) unavailable, (b) based on a very small and unrepresentative sample of actual transactions, or (c) derived from a formula that does not reflect actual private sale activity (i.e., using a standard depreciation rule, or modeling pricing on another bicycle whose characteristics may be completely different [price, availability, type, etc.]. Kelly Blue Book bases its auto pricing on actual transaction data, but then applies some unspecified editorial judgement to come up with KBBV. However, cars, unlike bicycles, are not registered nor taxed by the government when a private party resale occurs, so it's very hard to get a view into actual sale prices for the vast majority of bicycle resale transactions unlike with autos. Sure, you can look at Craigslist, Pinkbike, eBay and various other online locations where bikes are bought & sold to see asking prices, but only eBay is transparent on the actual prices paid.

IMO, BBB is useful as a marketplace for buyers of used bikes, and as a buyer of last resort for sellers unmotivated or unable to find a buyer. I absolutely think they've come up with a great idea here and am supportive of their marketplace in general. However, the use of 'blue book' in their name is intended to create an association -- psychological sleight of hand -- that might lead one to come to a lazy conclusion that they're both an unbiased and authoritative reference for used bicycle values.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

They also sell bikes. I looked up one of the bikes they were selling on BBB, and it was 200 over the highest price.


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## evilteddy (Jul 3, 2017)

Yes, I just noticed that they're charging more for a bike I'm interested in than their own BBB value guide would suggest. Like 40% more. And it's not just on eBay (which has 10% fees plus 2.9% for PayPal) - they are asking the same on their own website, plus they charge $25 more for shipping via their own site vs eBay, making eBay a better deal for buyers. 

A few weeks ago they had one listed at a price that matched what they show in their Value Guide. Guessing they got a lot of interest and are marking similar models up accordingly. Maybe they will update their Value Guide prices once they have actual sale data to support the higher prices? Assuming someone buys at the higher prices, that is.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

Along with Bicycle Bluebook mysteries, I recently caught a Flintstones rerun and it really bugged me that the wheels stayed on Fred's car even though there is nothing there. So I went into the garage and built a Flintstones car just to show how the wheels stay on. When I was done I achieved total consciousness and also realized how Bicycle Bluebook arrives at their prices, which is nice.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I've had people cite to the bicycle blue book when purchasing a bike from me. It's annoying because the components can vary quite a bit from what the web site might have listed. I find the web site is pretty hit or miss.

If my insurance cited to it I would absolutely reject it out of hand as a source. It's not official, not recognized by the industry, and not a valid source for valuing bicycles in my opinion. If I were making an insurance claim I would look up MSRPs and see if I could find some actual pricing on craigslist, ebay completed sales, etc. as that would be a much more reliable guide than some web site that doesn't disclose its methodology.

As to insurance, you should talk to your agent and have your bike listed on the policy just like you would for an engagement ring or other big-ticket personal item. I spoke to my agent about it and he said that the insurance company will give me the brand new retail value for the bike if I had it listed prior to any casualty. I did have to provide the original purchase receipt, which I happened to save.


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## motox155 (Jan 27, 2006)

I think a lot of people WAY over value their stuff. I've bought a few used bikes...got some good deals on bikes that would have cost me thousands more if I had bought them new. I'm talking low use, rarely ridden bikes....basically like new. The depreciation of most toys (bikes, cars, motorcycles, boats etc.) is HUGE. They estimate cars for instance lose approx 25% of their value the first year. Bicycles are the same. Huge depreciation on the first couple years. I see people trying to sell their 1 year old flagship bike for big money. They usually state the full retail price of the bike trying to justify their price, when most people know they probably didn't pay that when they bought it.

I use Bicycle Blue Book as a start point since I have absolutely no idea of the value of a certain bike. Just because someone want "X" for it doesn't mean that's what its worth. If you look at some of the value prices they give on their site then compare them to the same bike they are trying to sell on the same site they're usually not far off.


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## waterbearcycles (Mar 22, 2017)

Here is why you should NOT support Bicycle Blue Book.

Some poor guy is looking to sell his older Giant TCR carbon road bike. It is excellent condition and he barley used it. He has no idea what it’s worth so he decides to Google it. First thing that pops up is bicycle bluebook.com telling this guy, who believes everything he reads online, that his bike is worth $350 bucks in excellent condition. So what does he do, he sells his bike to bicycle bluebook for 350 bucks and thinks he got a fair deal selling it at the top of the market value for what bicycle Book states on their site.

Now a month later the same guy is searching online for a new preowned bike and he just happens to stumble across an eBay store where he finds them selling his same exact Giant TCR bike for $900. Little does he know, that eBay store belongs to BicycleBlue book. Get rid of bicycle Blue Book and don’t support them. They are lying to the public about used bicycle market prices. They are ripping off people that are uneducated about bicycle values by buying bikes for way less than they are worth then turning around and selling them off on eBay and Craigslist all over the country for way more than what their own website states. All the while they are driving the prices and values down on quality pre owned bicycles and showing massive depreciation of quality bicycles in a short amount of time. This effects the bicycle industry as a whole. If people continue to support bicycle Blue book’s posted used values and depreciation, eventually consumers will see less value in buying brand new bicycles from retailers. Consumers will learn that bicycle Blue book tells them they can wait just less than a year and pick up the same bike lightly used in excellent condition for over 1/2 of the retail price.

They have all the right in the world to buy used bikes for what ever they choose to offer and the seller agrees to sell but they have no right calling themselves bicycle "blue book" and having very inaccurate used market values posted on their website. People are trusting the cause of their name and they are using this to their advantage to buy bikes super cheap and sell them for way more on eBay and Craigslist all over the country.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^ you sure do love posting in this thread...

but sure, how is that different to pretty much everything else in everyday life. If someone isn't going to take the time to figure out how unload something and what it's actually worth, then they are going to get hosed and only have themselves to blame.

if someone want to sell their Giant and doesn't know what it's worth, then decides to look up a value and their first stop is blue book and it says $350, then they either go, "woo, $350 bucks, great!", and they take it and run, or "$350, thats not much, I think I'll look a bit deeper", so they delve in pricing and see that then can maybe get more. If you don't take the time to research things, you're going to get taken for a ride.

And pretty much everyone, very quickly, realizes that the second they buy a new bike, it drops hugely in value. All you have to do is wait less than a year and you can pick a NEW last years model for cheap, not lightly used, but brand new from the store. A lightly used one should only be worth 1/2 what it was.


It's like seeing a super mega bargain on the internet, but now you're all worried because even though you bought in good faith, that $8000 bike for $1500 from that store in Indonesia (aka really Nigeria), but the bike hasn't turned up after 4 months and you've got a whole heap of weird charges coming through on your Visa card


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Silentfoe said:


> This isn't always true. I made a claim on a destroyed bike once and my insurance company replaced the bike and added value for upgrades, to include a recently replaced chain.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


A chain is an upgrade? So when you total a vehicle do you add in the new oil change you just did into the insurance quote?


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## aborgman (Apr 18, 2016)

evilteddy said:


> Interesting thread.
> 
> Here are a few examples regarding why I think BBB's pricing is suspect:
> 
> (1) 2017 Fuji Jari 1.1 - BBB states MSRP as $2949. Their "Private Party Value," (PPV) which we can assume is slightly higher than what BBB would offer if they took this bike in on trade, is $1065 - 1096. I can promise you that you will not find a one year old, used Fuji Jari 1.1 anywhere for $1069 - that's roughly 1/3rd the value of the bike new, assuming you paid MSRP.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/2017-Fuji-...e+1.1&LH_Complete=1&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_Sold=1

2017 Fuji Jari 1.1 - $741


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

waterbearcycles said:


> People are trusting the cause of their name and they are using this to their advantage to buy bikes super cheap and sell them for way more on eBay and Craigslist all over the country.


Maybe I missed it, but do you have proof that this is happening?


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> A chain is an upgrade? So when you total a vehicle do you add in the new oil change you just did into the insurance quote?


Nice try. Are you purposefully being obtuse? Your analogy sucks. Yes, a chain can absolutely be an upgrade. Ever heard of titanium or hollow pins?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## jimdirt (Sep 4, 2018)

Silentfoe said:


> Their prices are actually pretty accurate and are an average of that bikes going prices across the web.
> 
> From their own site:
> The Bicycle Blue Book Promise:
> ...


Not sure how accurate BBB prices are, however it seems that many sellers try to thwart buyers from using it by not including the year of the bike or the model number or name. In some cases it may be an oversight. I have had to go by the bike paint color to determine the year and model. In some cases the price was double BBB! To be fair a lot of buyers are extreme lowballers.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

jimdirt said:


> Not sure how accurate BBB prices are, however it seems that many sellers try to thwart buyers from using it by not including the year of the bike or the model number or name. In some cases it may be an oversight. I have had to go by the bike paint color to determine the year and model. In some cases the price was double BBB! To be fair a lot of buyers are extreme lowballers.


BBB prices are based on what a dealer will buy the used bike for. They will then turn around and sell it for more. Prices between individuals would normally fall somewhere in between.


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## Davies (Mar 7, 2021)

Are you in Canada? Because I’ve noticed the same thing! BBB is American and their MSRPs for bikes are way off in Canada—even if you convert their suggested number.

Canadians get screwed on cost and taxes for everything. My guess is all the shipping and boarder taxes drives drive up the cost.


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## jimdirt (Sep 4, 2018)

partusa said:


> I checked several bikes prices on Bicycle Blue Book - Used Bikes and IMO they are way off. If they can sell me a bike for the money that they claim the bike is worth I'll have a basement full of bikes. Where do these guys get the prices from?
> Anybody else find this prices/website to be inaccurate?
> 
> To get a few
> ...


I'm not sure if BBB prices reflect the demand for used bikes since many shops don't have many new bikes in stock. On pinkbike the asking price for used bikes in many cases are high. Even bikes without modern geometry and drivetrains seem very high


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