# Cradle-type handlebar system - improvement?



## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

I currently use a porcelain rocket mca handlebar set up. It works, but I do tend to overpack it a bit, and on bumpy terrain it can flop around a lot. Also, if I make it as snug as possible, then it can interfere with shifters, cables etc. Are the newer cradle type systems (Salsa exp cradle, revelate) a significant improvement? Don’t know anyone who runs one.


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## PhilipHalpern (May 25, 2012)

Ive got the Salsa EXP and I've been very happy with it.
A little heavy but works great.
I use it with a drop bar. The Salsa dry bag is too wide but I strap my sleeping bag in a compression sack to it and it fits between the brake hoods. All in all, I'm very happy with it.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Thanks. I’ve settled on it, just looking for the best deal. I was worried a little bit about the clamps on the bars slipping, but from reading reviews it doesn’t seem to be a problem.


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## Aushiker (Sep 27, 2007)

I cannot compare with the Porcelain Rocket MCA but I have a Revelate Designs Harness mounted on my Salsa Mukluk and have not noticed any movement with it. The problem I did have initially is that I used a Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil dry sack which was way to slippery and easily moved. I have now swapped that bag out for a Sea to Summit Big River Dry bag which has tie-down loops. Rock solid setup now.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

Guys I’m looking at these cradle mounts and I like the concept, but I’m wondering if the weight penalty is worth it. The Salsa EXP and Relevate cradles weigh almost a pound, and other brands are probably about the same, ouch. That’s a lot of weight to make your gear stick out and away from the cables and fork and stay secure, do the pros really outweigh the cons?

Second question, if you don’t use a cradle, what other tricks can be employed to keep your front load secure and playing nice with the rest of the bike? Does using a short stem create problems?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I tried the revelate and took it back to exchange it for the Salsa. No contest, the salsa is far more secure and allows to position loads without fear of the bag sagging into the wheel. The revelate was much more of a pain in the butt and on my inaugural overnight a friend with the revelate had the problems I was foreseeing. It is a bit heavier, but it’s far better IME. Only negative is that some bars are not wide enough to clamp to. Answer carbon protaper was and crank bro colbalt was, but sixC didn’t work.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

The Boz said:


> Guys I'm looking at these cradle mounts and I like the concept, but I'm wondering if the weight penalty is worth it. The Salsa EXP and Relevate cradles weigh almost a pound, and other brands are probably about the same, ouch. That's a lot of weight to make your gear stick out and away from the cables and fork and stay secure, do the pros really outweigh the cons?
> 
> Second question, if you don't use a cradle, what other tricks can be employed to keep your front load secure and playing nice with the rest of the bike? Does using a short stem create problems?


Can anyone help me out with some answers here?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The Boz said:


> Can anyone help me out with some answers here?


Evidently not.

If you can run a rear rack, that's usually a better solution, but the salsa cradle is a pretty good runner-up IMO. I have used it a bunch for training and riding to work, as well as the overnight and races where it was required. The fact that you end up with a rigid setup that you can then strap stuff to is overwhelmingly better than the revelate solution. The revelate kind relies on "sagging" and must be sinched crazy tight to try and raise the middle enough to clear your tire. This is a huge deal for us in winter, because we all have studded tires on our fat bikes. Once the tire makes contact, it'll rip through the bag like butter. I've seen lots of people running hard-plastic on the bottom of their rolls mounted to the Revelate in an attempt to have some protection in case it does happen. Additionally, this salsa setup seems to just fit a -20 sleeping bag as if it was made for it, but it creates a long-and-thin roll, rather than a big poofy one. That helps block wind around our bars and makes our hands a bit warmer, as well as gives additional space to lash more stuff to it. You could obviously use a long skinny bag with the revelate too, but the natural tendency on the revelate is for the bag to seek out the lowest position and the system in general kind of relies on a high handlebar. If your handlebar is lower, you may need to add spacers under your stem or get a higher-rise one to give you enough clearance with the Revelate. IMO, the pictures on Revelate's site are fairly optimistic.

The only real negative I encountered was that my bar-mounted light didn't work as well with the Salsa setup. I had attempted to raise the mount a bit, but I needed to raise it even higher to prevent the big "shadow" of the bag. Yeah, it's a little heavy, but being rigid makes up for that a bit, and anything you mount to the setup will be pretty rigid too, so it's not as bad as floppy soft-weight IMO.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

The Boz said:


> Guys I'm looking at these cradle mounts and I like the concept, but I'm wondering if the weight penalty is worth it. The Salsa EXP and Relevate cradles weigh almost a pound, and other brands are probably about the same, ouch. That's a lot of weight to make your gear stick out and away from the cables and fork and stay secure, do the pros really outweigh the cons?
> 
> Second question, if you don't use a cradle, what other tricks can be employed to keep your front load secure and playing nice with the rest of the bike? Does using a short stem create problems?


 1 lb for the cradle and the stuff bag? Running flats or drop bars? Sus fork? The issues is cables and swinging movement. There are some DIY stuff out there too. Dirt Rag for one, bikepacking.com for another. I'm trying something " different" with the karate monkey for my next trip. Two handle bars. The steerer tube is really long, so a stem, then a road bar upside down, on top of that, regular flat bar set up. Rigid space for a homemade bag. For you? Experiment? Try a star nut run from the bottom of the steerer tube with some sort of bracket to hold the bag away from the cables? Extra bar ends to space out from the bar? Lots of possibilities.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I would opt for the Revelate harness any day over the Salsa Craddle. I'm of the opinion that a soft setup will always be more durable than a rigid/hard setup. The soft setup can move around a bit on bumpy terrain to absorb shock, whereas a rigid setup can't move and is therefore more likely to break. It was one of the driving reasons for the development of bikepacking soft bag setups.

I guess if you have a really big diameter roll and your bars are close to the front tire, such as Jayem describes, the harness could be an issue, but I think that's pretty specific to winter and carrying big sleeping systems, etc. I've not tried the PR MCA setup, but the Revelate setup with the spacer blocks helps keep the roll away from the bar and cables. There are some DIY ways to do the same thing if you search. Also, if you use a Jones Loop bar, it's super secure. The fit is very specific to each bike setup, so it obviously won't work well for everybody.

According to the websites, the weight between the Harness and Cradle is about the same, although I think the Cradle weight does not include any straps.

Another thing to consider is if using a carbon bar, I would steer clear of the Salsa Cradle.


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## thmslilly (May 20, 2012)

I have the Topeak Frontloader system and am quite happy with it. It has foam inserts that separate the bag from the bars/cables well enough for me. I have ridden technical singletrack with it cinched down without trouble. Not sure on weight, but seems pretty light. With the Frontloader filled with a sleeping bag and some clothes, I don't notice it too much.

Also, Rockgeist makes a Barjam handlebar system that looks like a light(ish)weight solution to this problem.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

I started out just strapping a dry bad to my handlebars. It works. I guess it's probably lighter. I was also carrying a foam pad, so the pad went around the dry bag and prevented abrasion.

It was most effective for camping weekends because it was fiddly to get everything strapped on tightly, and then fiddly to get it removed. To do it once at the beginning of your trip and once at the end. Removing it nightly and putting it back on in the morning was a pain.

So for me the Revelate cradle was well worth it. It makes loading and unloading the bike a breeze. It's also fairly easy to pile on extra gear if you want to. I don't have a problem with tire rub as long as I use the Revelate dry bag. I've used a large, Summit to sea bag and had to make sure it didn't hit the tire, so I would guess a short stem might be an issue depending on the size of your load.

I did a trip or two without the harness, then I bought the harness and used it for several trips before it got destroyed in a fire. I did one more trip with a dry bag strapped to my handlebars, and made sure I had replaced the Revelate harness before the next trip.

So, is it worth the extra weight? It is to me. I bought it twice.

Did a credit card trip last fall and stuffed the majority of my clothes into the dry bag/cradle. I could have easily carried them on the rear rack and left the cradle at home, but I wanted to keep the rack free for other, random needs. It worked out fine, and I did not regret the extra weight of the harness in the least, or even notice it.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

It seems like there are lots of fans for these cradle systems. When discussing clearance between your front bag and the front tire, especially when running a suspension fork, as I’d like to do depending on the route, it seems like short stems with negative rises would present more clearance problems than longer stems with upward rise. I probably will will flip my stem from a negative rise to a positive rise for bikepacking where comfort is key (rather than speed). These bags aren’t a huge investment so some experimentation will be in order, and that is part of the fun of bikepacking anyway...


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## trailnimal (Mar 1, 2004)

The Boz said:


> Can anyone help me out with some answers here?


BarYak


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

That Bar Yak looks really cool, carbon and everything! And it gives you another mounting point further out for attaching a front roll bag. 

Do you find mounting the Yak/aero bars on your MTB handlebars puts you a little too far forward of where you’d want to be when you get down in the aero bars? It seems like your body position would be pretty stretched out, but maybe you just go with a shorter stem. I was also looking at the Fred bar which mounted to your stem, and attempted to solve this problem. But with stems getting so short, the Fred bar doesn’t have as much benefit. The Yak has a wider aero bar stance I think, which might be better for gravel roads where there could be some bumps and stability is nice.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

The Boz said:


> That Bar Yak looks really cool, carbon and everything! And it gives you another mounting point further out for attaching a front roll bag.
> 
> Do you find mounting the Yak/aero bars on your MTB handlebars puts you a little too far forward of where you'd want to be when you get down in the aero bars? It seems like your body position would be pretty stretched out, but maybe you just go with a shorter stem. I was also looking at the Fred bar which mounted to your stem, and attempted to solve this problem. But with stems getting so short, the Fred bar doesn't have as much benefit. The Yak has a wider aero bar stance I think, which might be better for gravel roads where there could be some bumps and stability is nice.


Fred bars get aero bars up and back:

https://www.sirenbicycles.com/products/fred-bars

Edit: Some of the offerings from Profile appear to be pretty adjustable in both height and fore and aft.

https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http...NjFC4ULUERMFLOxZVLnKcGqYNo-ZW0WmaANJ3jPE8xvXA


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## trailnimal (Mar 1, 2004)

I have not used the Baryak for aero position yet.


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

I have the BarYak and find it was a great option. I mount my Sweetroll directly to the front carbon bar of the Yak. However, when used with my original rigid fork, I was placed too low to effectively use the bar in an aero position. Granted it was my Niner rigid set-up for XC racing, so the stem was fairly slammed. I had been looking at a new fork, so when I bought my Firestarter, I left the steerer tube uncut. Eventually dropping it to a level that is a good compromise and double wrapping my flat bar between the stem and the brake levers with road tape. This provides a decent platform to rest my forearms when in aero position. Ironically, I find a good position is to go only slightly aero and rest my elbows out and on the Ergon grips. Just another position to rest the body. I'll look to see if I have any pics of the setup.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

Interesting, thanks for sharing. I’ve heard several people use their ergonomic grips as elbow rests with their aero bars. The Jones bars are nice for this because they have so much sweep, 45 degrees.

Anyone mount a Yak bar to a Fred bar? It could get the Yak’s aero bars further back and higher to be more comfortable. Of course then the Yak bars would be less useable for mounting a big roll bag to, because they wouldn’t stick out as far.


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

__
https://flic.kr/p/31050251564

The linked pic will give you a good idea of the BarYak, feel free to look thru that album or the Tour Divide album, you'll find a few others.

BarYak is pricey, but I did a trade with a guy for one. They also sell forearm wings, but I feel they would reduce the ability to use the space near the stem for an additional hand position.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

Iowagriz that is a sweet bike and setup!























My build will be very similar, as I'm also doing a ti 29er frame made by Lynskey, Niner rigid fork, 1x drivetrain, and maybe that Yak bar, seems pretty cool.

What kind of front bag is that? With the Yak bar you could have an extra mounting point for your front bag, but what front bags have that mounting point? Or do you have to add strap locations to the bag in a semi-custom manner?


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

That is the Revelate Sweetroll with the matching pocket. The Sweetroll mounts as normal to the bar; then the strap that normally goes around the headtube is ran thru the holes in the BarYak. If you zoom into pic#2 above, you will see the strap just in front of the stem.

Works just as good as around the normal bars and headtube. Just imagine that it was rotated approx 90 degrees from the normal mount. 

I had found that when the Sweetroll was used on my handlebar, that I had cable problems and had to move the brakes around. This has solved that issue.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Aero bars on a bikepacking set up? I go with some wide bars with sweep, plus some bar ends. Handling issues with a loaded bike?


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

Having the weight up and out does impact the handling a little bit, but nothing serious. Keep in mind, my setup was Tour Divide or long gravel/forest road types of riding. So having that hand position really is a benefit. Using the bar on those roads really wasn't a problem. In fact, I used them several times on fast and slightly rougher downhills. Takes some time to get used to that, but stable with the elbows out onto the Ergon grips.

Not sure I'd run the same thing for singletrack or rougher trails. I'd need a different setup for use with my suspension fork as my bag can rub on bottoming out.


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## The Boz (Sep 28, 2011)

MTBR just posted a review of the Salsa Salt Flat handlebar which has a wider clamping area, meant for securing things like the Anything cradle, aero bars, Yak bar, etc.

Salsa Salt Flat carbon flat bar review - Mtbr.com

Seems like a cool handlebar, a little bit relaxed sweep for long days in the saddle. The reviewer does not mention that it says on the Salsa website "not compatible with bar ends." Why would that be the case?


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

The Boz said:


> MTBR just posted a review of the Salsa Salt Flat handlebar which has a wider clamping area, meant for securing things like the Anything cradle, aero bars, Yak bar, etc.
> 
> Salsa Salt Flat carbon flat bar review - Mtbr.com
> 
> Seems like a cool handlebar, a little bit relaxed sweep for long days in the saddle. The reviewer does not mention that it says on the Salsa website "not compatible with bar ends." Why would that be the case?


Most carbon bars have the same disclaimer. The end of the bar is not designed to have a hunk of metal clamped to it and then used as a lever arm.


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## tahic (Jul 21, 2008)

They have the same disclaimer ( no bar ends) on the alloy version also which really is odd especially given the target audience of Salsa gear


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

I have used both Relevate Sweetroll and the Salsa cradle. I now use a Relevate Salty Roll with the Salsa cradle and it's a great and secure setup. I like that the drybag can be removed for packing and unpacking without too much hassle with the rigging. The cradle also works great for securing a packraft or other large items. If we are running lights I use a cheapo accessory mount bar I found online that has thin aluminum clamps and a section of carbon tube between.


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