# LIV 2017 line up just announced.



## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Liv Launches Three New Women's Mountain Bikes - Mountain Bikes Press Releases - Vital MTB


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Woo hoo! I was out of the loop for several days and am just catching up on all the happenings! Sure hope I get a chance to demo the Hail!


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

No chatter about this yet? I'm itching to see more info on these, particularly geometry and components of the aluminum versions.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

A vid, some photos, nothing substantial yet.


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## MTBR_Saris (Apr 26, 2016)

Yeah, the press release they sent to MTBR was sparse on actual details. I called to try and get more information, but no luck. During the course of conversation, they did state that the new models have unique geometries to Liv. They're not rebranded Giant's. For example, the Hail will have a 66 degree HA. The current Reign has a 65 degree HA.

I'm working on some interview questions for Liv now, so hopefull we'll more substantial info later this week!


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Even the stores and reps don't have much details right now. It seems they are squeaking out little bits of info at a time.



> they did state that the new models have unique geometries to Liv. They're not rebranded Giant's.


This is nothing new... that's been Liv's whole premise since the beginning.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

formica said:


> Even the stores and reps don't have much details right now. It seems they are squeaking out little bits of info at a time.
> 
> This is nothing new... that's been Liv's whole premise since the beginning.


Yup, which I like. They're not simply using the unisex frames with women's touch points. I demo'd the Intrigue SX last year and thought it felt great. But, I'm super stoked to see the extended travel on the Hail and slacker HTA. I've been wanting something more aggressive for quite a while. Hope I get to demo this puppy soon!


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Stripes said:


> You know that Formica only posted this to torture you Petey


LOL, I know, right?


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

i sent an email to Giant last week asking about geometries and specs. No luck. 

Most of the men's geometry bikes have such short seat tubes that I've too much exposed seat post. Also want more stack. I think Juliana would work, but I don't want to spend that much. Also hopeful the aluminum version is available with a higher end component group, or even better, as a frameset.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Muirenn said:


> i sent an email to Giant last week asking about geometries and specs. No luck.
> 
> Most of the men's geometry bikes have such short seat tubes that I've too much exposed seat post. Also want more stack. I think Juliana would work, but I don't want to spend that much. Also hopeful the aluminum version is available with a higher end component group, or even better, as a frameset.


Yeah, I find it aggravating they only release little snippets of information at a time. Seems like when other manufacturers release a new bike, they give you all the details at the same time. I agree - I hope the aluminum versions offer nice groupos, too.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Liv site is updated and they've posted the new bikes and spec and geometry info:
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bike-catalogue/series/off-road/53/
Woot woot!!


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

All I can say, I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger (well, I coudn't afford it anyway, lol) on an Intrigue SX. I like the changes they made with the Hail - longer TT, shorter chainstays, more travel, slacker HTA. I cannot wait to get a chance to demo!


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## Muirenn (Jun 17, 2013)

petey15 said:


> All I can say, I'm glad I didn't pull the trigger (well, I coudn't afford it anyway, lol) on an Intrigue SX. I like the changes they made with the Hail - longer TT, shorter chainstays, more travel, slacker HTA. I cannot wait to get a chance to demo!


Love that aluminum is available with every model. Seems like the stack is quite short for these bikes. I really need a good demo. Out of curiosity, how tall are you? What size do you think you'd need?


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Muirenn said:


> Love that aluminum is available with every model. Seems like the stack is quite short for these bikes. I really need a good demo. Out of curiosity, how tall are you? What size do you think you'd need?


I'm 5'4"ish. I believe I'd take a small - I demo'd a small in the Intrigue SX last year. I noticed the TT got longer - which I think might feel pretty good? Standover is less than the Intrigue's was...but don't think that'd be an issue for me.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

https://www.liv-cycling.com/global/campaigns/actually-i-can-fly/20312

Recent video posted


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## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

petey15 said:


> https://www.liv-cycling.com/global/campaigns/actually-i-can-fly/20312
> 
> Recent video posted


Yaaaaas just came here to post that link! What a rad video!


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

ryetoast said:


> Yaaaaas just came here to post that link! What a rad video!


Isn't it? I feel they should do a lot more of those - if they want to market their bikes as being aggressive, show them in their element!


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Thanks for the video, good stuff!


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Muirenn, actually, after checking out the geometry more closely on the Hail, I think I'd actually be an xs? The lengthened the top tube and reach quite a bit. It's actually really close to the small Juliana. I'm surprised it's that much bigger? Not sure if they are compensating for a shorter stem? The reach on the xs is almost 16", which is quite a bit longer than the 14" reach the xs SX had last year. Seems like a big jump? Like that the chainstay is shorter, and wheelbase longer, but wow, this seems long? I demo'd the small SX last year and thought it felt really good - maybe a little short? Going by those numbers then would seem to put me solidly in the xs range.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

So, I FB'd Liv and they responded back they'd recommend a size small for me in the Hail as they say it's for someone who is between 5'3" and 5'6". I'm 5'4"...so technically, that'd be me. They also said it'd depend on my torso to leg ratio. I have a local shop, but I don't know if they'd even get a Hail in their inventory to demo. I'll have to check it out...


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

petey15 said:


> Liv site is updated and they've posted the new bikes and spec and geometry info:
> https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bike-catalogue/series/off-road/53/
> Woot woot!!


I'm deciding between current intrigue and new Pique for a female friend but pretty frustrated as geometry numbers can't be right. 70deg headangle on the new Pique?? It even says so in the official dealer PDF!









if the Pique is supposed to succeed the Intrigue it has to be at least 68°

not splitting hairs here but who's gonna buy a trail bike in 2017 with a ~2007 geometry


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Steel Calf said:


> I'm deciding between current intrigue and new Pique for a female friend but pretty frustrated as geometry numbers can't be right. 70deg headangle on the new Pique?? It even says so in the official dealer PDF!
> 
> View attachment 1087964
> 
> ...


I know - I noticed that, too. Big change in top tube, reach and standover on the Hail from the Intrigue SX. Now I'm debating between an xs and s. Liv suggested a small for me, but it seems that might be a bit of a stretch for me. Not sure when/where I would get a chance to demo anytime soon...


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

if you're in between sizes it's nearly impossible to decide without proper testriding. Many small nuances in geometry together can make a bike feel completely different so geometry numbers alone can be misleading.

That being said in case of doubt I'd take the larger bike as feeling cramped is far worse than "riding a bus"


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I've been advised to always go down,not up,when in doubt. 

FWIW, as my shop explained to me, the Pique SX is the replacement for the intrigue,but not the regular pique which is more of a XC bike.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

formica said:


> I've been advised to always go down,not up,when in doubt.
> 
> FWIW, as my shop explained to me, the Pique SX is the replacement for the intrigue,but not the regular pique which is more of a XC bike.


Sorry but thats a lame advice for bikes like the Intrigue/Pique that already come stock with pretty long stems, imagine being on a bike too short and forced to run a 100mm stem

and you're right, according to Giants press release the Pique SX is intended to succeed the Intrigue which is a bad replacement IMO, 20mm less rear travel and steeper geometry, fail.

The Intrigue was perfect middle ground like the best selling Trance is at Giants mens line, they wouldn't discontinue that trying to replace it with the Anthem SX either!


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

I just double checked and geometry numbers of the new Pique model seem legit. 

Maybe LIV is gonna release another bike in the coming weeks but for now there's a huge gap in 2017 LIVs full suspension line up. The closest you can get to an "All Mountain / Trailbike" is the Pique SX which is simply a XC bike with a longer fork put inside.

To be honest, if I was a woman I wouldn't bother and buy the new Hail 1 right away as it matches my Trance SX and looks stunning gorgeous but many female riders out there don't wanna settle on such a beast in the first place which I can understand

We're now trying to get a 2016 LIV Intrigue 1, they've still many of them in stock here in Europe and offer huge discounts. I intend to open a LIV Intrigue owners thread similar to the very popular Giant Trance thread once it arrives to share more infos and pics


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Steel Calf said:


> Sorry but thats a lame advice for bikes like the Intrigue/Pique that already come stock with pretty long stems, imagine being on a bike too short and forced to run a 100mm stem


My GF is 5'6" and pretty much every salesperson tried to shoehorn her on to a small...which was too short. Every small she tried...she told me that the bar felt real close to her knees. Then the salesperson would tell her that she can slide the saddle back and get a longer stem. I told her hell no.

She got a medium (Stumpjumper 6Fattie) and I replaced the 60mm stem with a 50mm. Her saddle is just about centered on the seat rails.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Anyone have a chance to demo the Hail yet? Thoughts?


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

my shop won't have until October


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

formica said:


> my shop won't have until October


I have zero chance to demo anything around here...unless my shop gets some in to demo in October - that'd be nice.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Anyone get a chance to demo one of these in person yet? It's October...


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

I'm a 5'11" dude who shortly sat on a Hail 1 size S last month and liked it


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

Steel Calf said:


> I'm a 5'11" dude who shortly sat on a Hail 1 size S last month and liked it


5'11" on a size small?? Um, so at 5'4", I guess I'd be on an xs. Wow.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

5-11 dude? I smell a troll.


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## Steel Calf (Feb 5, 2010)

ok let me elaborate:

I'm a 5'11" dude who just bought a Intrigue 1 size M for a 5'7" girl.
Quick picture:










On a test event last month I sat (just for the fun of it) on a size S Hail 1 (yes the frame is obviously too small but I wanted to compare how the steering feels compared to my Trance SX)

here is a quick picture I took:










I weighted the bike myself at 14.4kg with the pedals shown on the picture, it comes with the same (heavy) P-AM2 wheelset I have on my Trance SX.


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## ryetoast (Jan 24, 2016)

Steel Calf said:


> ok let me elaborate:
> 
> I'm a 5'11" dude who just bought a Intrigue 1 size M for a 5'7" girl.
> Quick picture:


+10000 bonus points for honky horn. I hope she races it and honks at soon-to-be-vanquished competitors


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

alrighty: I demo'ed the Hail 1 for three days last week. This is the higher spec'ed aluminum version.

My riding style is trail/all mountain, lots of pedaling and descending, some tech. I am NOT an enduro racer, too darn slow on the descents.

I really, really, REALLY wish they had had an Hail Advanced to try. Right off the bat this particular bike is 5+ lbs heavier than my current ride which is an Intrigue 1.

What I liked: overall very comfortable out of the box fit for me. The 160 on the front is super plush, and the additional slack makes for a really smooth, stable descent. On the steeps it was divine. Handling on corners and switchbacks was very easy. I did one super tech old school climbing trail that has steep S corners going up and I was surprised at how well it handled those. I did a little jumping and a little dropping, and the suspension differences over the stock Intrigue suspension are substantial. There's lots better feedback and it feels way snappier. So snappy in fact that I got completely taken by surprise on one of the baby table tops which ended in a spectacular if harmless fail:















The minuses: the Hail 1 is way heavier than my current ride. Between the weight and the gearing I thought it climbed like a pig on anything but the most gentle grades. I thought maybe it was just me but I had my friend ride it up one of the steeper pitches that was way too much work and she agreed 100%. It probably has something to do with gearing as my Intrigue is a 22/40 for my lowest gear on a 2x10 which is custom in the granny, not stock; the Hail 1 is 30/42,stock. This is my main complaint, climbing performance. Geometry for climbing felt fine. I have to mention the stock saddle is really unpleasant.

I really wish I could have demoed the Hail Advanced. As it stands now, I would not buy it unless I knew that the weight/gearing issue was going to work for me. When I'm pedaling miles and miles of trail at 6000' elevation, I do not want to work any harder than I absolutely need to. The different suspension was a revelation. I thought I would love this bike, and for a while considered ordering the Advance 1, but then I'd want to put carbon wheels on it (looooove my carbon wheels) and then it starts turning into a whole bunch of money.

Yesterday I was back on my Intrigue and the rear shock, just back from a factory rebuild, blew up on the way down. As in, oil pouring out everywhere to the point where I thought my camelback hose was leaking. Lucky for me, LBS owner was at the bottom of the trail and we had a long chat about bikes. What I think I'm going to do now is to turn my Intrigue into the SX setup with a suspension change out and possibly a switch to a 1x set up. The 2x is working great - no complaints. The bike super light and I love how it handles. I think setting it up with a 160-130 will make it the perfect bike for me. LBS guy was saying he was kind of surprised they didn't make the Intrigue carbon.


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## petey15 (Sep 1, 2006)

^ THANK YOU, Formica!! I've been hoping we'd hear from you on this one sometime soon . Very good, honest review and you addressed the the points that concerned me the most (without having the benefit of actually getting to ride one) - weight and gearing/climbing ability. I don't climb a ton...but we definitely have some good hills to slog up and as it is, I'm already the last of the pack. I'm surprised and disappointed in the weight increase and the gearing? What - were they anticipating this bike would mostly be used at a bike park? If so, they have a BIG gap in the trail category. I would have been super happy with an update on the Intrigue SX - 160/140 seems like a great place to be in regards to travel. Even if they had kept the Intrigue at 140/140 and just updated the geometry a tad and slackened out the HTA, that would have been awesome. Not sure why they did this? I'm really disappointed - 5# is a lot. And I most definitely don't want to climb on a 30T ring. 
So, any other suggestions for something comparable? Maybe I'll have to look at the Trance...


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Here's the thing as explained by LBS guy. When you put the 160 on the the intrigue it takes the head angle to 67 (66.9) instead of 68, at least in my size, which puts it closer to the angle on the Hail, which would give me the handling I'm looking for.
I see no need for the Intrigue frame to be tweaked. I just want the whole package in composite.

that being said, I bet the $8000 Hail climbs like a dream.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Last comment for now. 
I went to see my friend who is the local LIV ambassador and NW pro.
She is getting the Hail 1 in Feb, and I'll ride the composite version then. I am also borrowing her SX while my bike is in the shop. That will be cool to try the intrigue frame with different (bigger) suspension. I tried her composite Lust today just for grins, lots of fun and ohhhh that carbon damping feels so different. We ride the exact same size so it's really cool. No adjustments needed.


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## Lucy Juice (Dec 29, 2010)

Hmmm, glad to hear your take on the Hail, Formica. Wanting to demo one for sure, but poor climbing performance is an absolute dealbreaker for me...


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

If you can demo composite, it may be a whole different game. I can't wait to try the composite this spring.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

First Liv Store in Canada to Open in Vancouver, Thursday January 12, 2017











> Liv Vancouver is excited to announce the first store of its kind in Canada. A bicycle boutique featuring Liv brand bikes, as well as accessories, clothing and a customer experience tailored to the female rider, Liv Vancouver aims to open its doors this Thursday at noon, with an official Grand Opening scheduled for February 17.
> 
> For store owner and avid cyclist Anne-Marie Gagnon, Liv Vancouver is the opportunity of a lifetime. "It's my dream shop," she said. "Clean, organized, classy, welcoming, with friendly, knowledgeable staff and good coffee&#8230; it's everything I would want from a bike shop as a customer."
> 
> ...


Liv Vancouver â€" Liv Beyond â€" Cycling for Women

Sauce: First Liv Store in Canada to Open in Vancouver, Thursday - Pinkbike

Wishing the store success and Toronto location is next


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

I have a sizing question for those of you that might have demoed a Pique. I am going to buy my wife a Pique as a surprise gift. She is pregnant with our second child and as a show of gratitude for the hard work she will do carrying the baby I would like to get her a new bike. She is fit, but not confident technically, and I am thinking the 120 mm of travel of the Pique will give her a little more ability to just go over the bumps that she currently tries to avoid. We are in the Midwest , so we don't have a need for more than 120mm of travel. 
She is 5'05" and normally weighs about 140-145. Looking at the Geomety charts, it looks like her current bike (Orbea Occam , 26 inch wheel, 16 inch frame) falls directly between the Liv small and medium. Her Orbea has a 90 mm stem ( I believe) and a seatpost with about 15 mm of setback. I am guessing a Medium with a short stem and a zero setback post will be a good fit, but was wondering what those of you that have ridden them thought about sizing. Thank you in advance.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I can't help with the Pique, but I'm 5-4.5 and I've ridden the Lust, Hail, and Intirgue, all size Small. The S fit great. I'm average in that I'm well proportioned torso/leg; not long legged at all. Based on the fit of these three bikes I'm wondering if the M will be too big.


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## Snopro440 (Mar 30, 2008)

formica said:


> I can't help with the Pique, but I'm 5-4.5 and I've ridden the Lust, Hail, and Intirgue, all size Small. The S fit great. I'm average in that I'm well proportioned torso/leg; not long legged at all. Based on the fit of these three bikes I'm wondering if the M will be too big.


That's really helpful, thank you. My lbs has a 2016 Intrigue 1 that retailed for $3300 that I'm thinking I could get for $2100, brand new in size small. I'm considering it, and will bring her current bike in to compare sizing. We'll see!! Thanks again!


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## MTBR_Saris (Apr 26, 2016)

It's also important to note that mountain bike geometry has changed drastically. Manufacturers like Santa Cruz and Ibis have increased their reach numbers by an inch or more when compared to the 26" rigs of yesteryear. As a result, a newer size small bike will probably feel like an old school medium or large frame. 

Long story short, I think a size small with a 50mm stem would be an awesome setup. Either way, she's going to be pumped on her new bike! Nice work.


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