# 60/20/20



## nowlan (Apr 21, 2009)

Good day

I am looking at taking my diet a little more serious this season, and was hoping to get some insight from endurance athletes who pay attention to their Macros. Based on some research I have learned that a 60/20/20 (60% Carbs, 20% Fat, 20% Protein) protocol with various caloric intake ranges is not uncommon. 

Based on the fact I put in close to 15 hours a week, sometimes multiple sessions per day My caloric intake is 3000 at 185 lbs.

Anyone else have luck with this protocol?

Cheers


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## GlazedHam (Jan 14, 2004)

Isn't this SAD ? Standard American Diet? I'm having great luck with targeted ketosis and intermittent fasting with the goal being endocrine system optimization. You are not necessarily what you eat, but what your body does with with what you eat.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

That is around what is sometimes suggested for in season endurance type activities on a periodization plan. Power/strength activities are lighter on carbs and heavier to protein.
Out of season endurance diet is closer to a so-called keto diet.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

The percentages dont matter near as much as quality.

Carbs from raw sources (vegetables mainly, some unprocessed grains but limited)

Fats from specific sources. Like fat from pork and processed oils is horrible. Where as fats from salmon and fruits/veggies are good

Protien. Again depends on sources.

Without professional help you will have to experiment with percentages. Genetics has a big part in what percentages you work best with. Even plays a bigger part in what sources of the macros work best.

It takes time and changes can take as much as 2 weeks to notice if results are good or bad. 

But most important is getting what your personal body needs, not just macros but every little vitamin and mineral intake level can have an effect. Sometimes big, sometimes nothing more than increasing your recovery time by a few minutes.

The best athletes arent ones that train the hardest or the best, they are the ones that have mastered taking care of their bodies down to the fine details of there vitamin amd mineral intakes. It can get crazy but when you train hard how your body processes everything changes. 

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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

nowlan said:


> Good day
> 
> I am looking at taking my diet a little more serious this season, and was hoping to get some insight from endurance athletes who pay attention to their Macros. Based on some research I have learned that a 60/20/20 (60% Carbs, 20% Fat, 20% Protein) protocol with various caloric intake ranges is not uncommon.
> 
> ...


What are your specific goals? Maintenance? Weight loss? Weight gain? We know you are 185 pds., how tall are you? 15 hours a week at what intensity? It's all in the details.


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## nowlan (Apr 21, 2009)

RAKC Ind said:


> The percentages dont matter near as much as quality.
> 
> Carbs from raw sources (vegetables mainly, some unprocessed grains but limited)
> 
> ...


Thanks

I am trying to get to that point. I have always been a healthy eater, just never tried to perfect a tailored diet to my athletic needs.


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## nowlan (Apr 21, 2009)

dave54 said:


> That is around what is sometimes suggested for in season endurance type activities on a periodization plan. Power/strength activities are lighter on carbs and heavier to protein.
> Out of season endurance diet is closer to a so-called keto diet.


I agree that tailoring your diet around phases/cycles is key.


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## nowlan (Apr 21, 2009)

life behind bars said:


> What are your specific goals? Maintenance? Weight loss? Weight gain? We know you are 185 pds., how tall are you? 15 hours a week at what intensity? It's all in the details.


My goals are to be able to consistently perform and recover.
Right now I am Base Building so it's not very intense, just long efforts.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

nowlan said:


> Thanks
> 
> I am trying to get to that point. I have always been a healthy eater, just never tried to perfect a tailored diet to my athletic needs.


Its not just your athletic needs, your body on a normal basis has requirements that will vary a bit from the standard. When yout a serious athlete it becomes much more important because every bit is more rapidly consumed and deficiencies can result without even knowing it. That is part of what can cause "bad days" if your resting and eating what should be properly already. Your body has ran low on something.

Its a time consuming project to set sorted out but youll know as it improves. Both in how you generally feel as well as a bit of gains performance wise across the board

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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

RAKC Ind said:


> The percentages dont matter near as much as quality.
> 
> Carbs from raw sources (vegetables mainly, some unprocessed grains but limited)
> 
> ...


100% correct. Some people metabolize carbs so fast they actually get low blood sugar in the next 1-3 hours after a simple carb meal or snack. They need a heavier protein/fat meal, and one before the workout. Others find protein and fat very heavy and hard/slow to digest; those are the ones that can't have a meal before the workout or they will feel nauseated and sluggish. It's ALL genetics, 100%. You have to figure it out for yourself. It took me years to figure out a good daily diet, and that was after reading dozens of books and hundreds of research articles. But it's worth the time and effort not just for your workout but for your quality of life. 60/20/20 is OK to start with, but if you are gaining non-muscle weight and don't feel better, then you can go closer to the Zone diet of 40/30/30 and see how that goes (although I don't really like going too much over 25% protein). And from there customize it with how you feel. Even stuff like niacinamide vs. niacin can feel different depending on your genetics (I'm not supplementing with either of those at this time, minor side effects with both).


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

You mentioned another thing, try to avoid supplements. Food based is much more effective. 

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## nowlan (Apr 21, 2009)

richj8990 said:


> 100% correct. Some people metabolize carbs so fast they actually get low blood sugar in the next 1-3 hours after a simple carb meal or snack. They need a heavier protein/fat meal, and one before the workout. Others find protein and fat very heavy and hard/slow to digest; those are the ones that can't have a meal before the workout or they will feel nauseated and sluggish. It's ALL genetics, 100%. You have to figure it out for yourself. It took me years to figure out a good daily diet, and that was after reading dozens of books and hundreds of research articles. But it's worth the time and effort not just for your workout but for your quality of life. 60/20/20 is OK to start with, but if you are gaining non-muscle weight and don't feel better, then you can go closer to the Zone diet of 40/30/30 and see how that goes (although I don't really like going too much over 25% protein). And from there customize it with how you feel. Even stuff like niacinamide vs. niacin can feel different depending on your genetics (I'm not supplementing with either of those at this time, minor side effects with both).


Solid points

Any recommendations on what indicators to look for when tweaking?
What about changing the ratio durimg certain phases of training?


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

nowlan said:


> Solid points
> 
> Any recommendations on what indicators to look for when tweaking?
> What about changing the ratio durimg certain phases of training?


Well I don't train. I would not call walking a treadmill and having fun on 33-38 lb bikes really training 

I didn't change my diet for biking in other words. There are a couple of books I'd recommend on the subject: The Metabolic Typing Diet by William Wolcott, and The Nutrition Solution by Harold Kristal. I briefly corresponded with Wolcott several years ago and he kindly reminded me that Metabolic Typing was his copyright and I cannot use it for any future publications. So I'll use some generic phrase like biochemical typing in my next book, which is going really, really slow to write.

Below is all speculation since I don't train: supposedly you want to carb load before training; you can take 100-200 micrograms of chromium picolinate daily for this, along with a B-complex supplement. For longer rides you will start burning more fat after depleting glycogen reserves; omega 3s and conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) are good. They also recommend carnitine powder but don't take that if you have any seizure or family history of that in the past. Protein is good but it does have a strong thermic (warming) effect, and I have developed some mild heat intolerance in the warm sun lately, possibly due to eating about 30-40 grams of protein before biking. Again this all depends on genetics too.


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## nowlan (Apr 21, 2009)

Would you agree with changing your Macros during a Taper Week? Or reducing total Caloric intake.


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