# 2018 Levo owners, info needed



## scotteric (Aug 22, 2005)

curious what kind of range people are getting riding fire roads/trail in mountains using battery sparingly (low mode, climb assist only). anyone with other brands chime in as well....


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

Answers will vary greatly. The default low assist mode is 30% on the Levo, which is about 150 watts. 

The amount of effort you put in, relative to your body weight, as well as the terrain you ride, determines the range. 

In a simplified example, putting in 200 watts of effort (for a combined power of 450 watts) will give you nearly double the range compared to putting in 75 watts of effort (for a combined power of 225 watts).

The difference between 200 watts and 75 watts of human effort is night and day. While many people can sustain 200 watts for a period of time, not nearly as many can average it. In contrast, almost anyone who's even remotely in shape can average 75 watts indefinitely - basically until you run out of daylight or your bum gets too sore.


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## scotteric (Aug 22, 2005)

Yes I suppose but I'd still be curious to here what kind of range people are getting, on a Levo or any similar battery/motor set up....


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I have a 500wh yamaha powered Haibike, as does a buddy I ride with. There is also a 2017 Levo, and a Bosch Haibike in the group. All batteries in the group vary quite a bit depending on where and how they are ridden. I tend to ride on a low setting and use about 25-40% over a typical 15-18 mile ride. So, I would expect to be able to go 40-45 miles keeping it to a low setting. The levo in the group can do the same if you use a low setting I would assume. But, you need to watch your battery usage to go that far and don't expect more than that in the best of conditions. On the standard setting I'd expect to get half that range and I could see getting 12-15 miles on the high setting for any of these bikes.


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## PACS (Jun 7, 2010)

I have a 2018 Levo and have done 5-6 rides so far. I usually finish with a near dead battery but average 25-45 miles with 5000 to 5600 feet of climbing. 

I was relying on the battery more heavily in the beginningn but now ride mostly at 25% with bursts at 50%. I reserve turbo mode for some short soul crushing fireroad segments.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

I got a 2016 Haibike Nduro with a Yamaha PW motor and 400w/h battery. My usual range on Eco is 20-30 miles 3000’-5000’ it really depends on the steepness of the ascents and how technical the terrain.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I burned through most of a 2017 Levo's battery (one light remained) on an eight mile 3000' ascent. It was getting dark and, AIR, the system was in turbo mode for the entire climb. Pretty quick trip though.


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## hobbit (Apr 23, 2007)

2018 Carbon Comp. Shortest range I've achieved is 18 miles and 2500 ft climbing with a 50/50 split between 100% and 50% assist. Longest was 32 miles and 3500 ft climbing at 25% assist for probably 75% of the ride and 50% assist for the remainder. My most regular ride is 22 miles 3000ft and at 50% assist throughout I usually have 1 bar left.
Cheers

Mark.


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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

If people could include body weight that would be super helpful. There's gotta be a huge range difference between a 150lb vs 250lb rider.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

justin70 said:


> If people could include body weight that would be super helpful. There's gotta be a huge range difference between a 150lb vs 250lb rider.


Battery usage is really just a mathmatical calculation of watts over time. The battery does not know how much you weigh or where you are going, it just outputs the power requested. So say you have a 500wh battery and ask it to output 20% assist from a 500watt motor, in theory that battery will last you 5 hours. It does not matter where you are going, just that it is supplying 100watts. You can extend your range by asking it to do less (10% assist) or by not pedaling on the downhills which results in the motor not using any power during that time.

With that being said, here is where weight factors in. A lightweight rider does not provide enough torque to even get say 20% assist. If the rider is putting in 50watts of power the bike on normal acceleration and Eco of 20% will still only be adding 30 watts of power (no where near 100watts if set to Eco of 20%). To go a set speed it does take less power to move a lighter weight rider but remember you are helping move the bike. A bigger stronger guy should be putting in more power.

With all that being said, I am 115 ready to ride and my husband is 165 and the range we each get is very different. My range is about 50% greater than his. But I think we ride in different ways. On our regular bikes I am always faster uphill but on the Levo we adjust the assist so that we ride together. I work harder on the uphills and keep it in Eco while he will often go to Trail. Also so that we are evenly matched I set all my levels lower and my acceleration lower.

With Mission Control you can really control your range and time out. Just assume about an 80% efficiency of battery to motor (probably not even this good) and you should be able to calculate the time you can get out of the bike.

I hope this helps.


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## justin70 (Sep 17, 2007)

JillRide45 said:


> Battery usage is really just a mathmatical calculation of watts over time. The battery does not know how much you weigh or where you are going, it just outputs the power requested. So say you have a 500wh battery and ask it to output 20% assist from a 500watt motor, in theory that battery will last you 5 hours. It does not matter where you are going, just that it is supplying 100watts. You can extend your range by asking it to do less (10% assist) or by not pedaling on the downhills which results in the motor not using any power during that time.
> 
> With that being said, here is where weight factors in. A lightweight rider does not provide enough torque to even get say 20% assist. If the rider is putting in 50watts of power the bike on normal acceleration and Eco of 20% will still only be adding 30 watts of power (no where near 100watts if set to Eco of 20%). To go a set speed it does take less power to move a lighter weight rider but remember you are helping move the bike. A bigger stronger guy should be putting in more power.
> 
> ...


What you're saying makes sense, but I was just interested in some basic ride reports. For me, I think the relevant issue is what are people actually getting for range, no need to get all intellectual...I'm not looking for an exact range down to three decimal places. There are differences in riding styles, terrain, and rider fitness, so what is useful is hearing some approximate info. If there is a 165 lb guy getting 30 miles on a 500Whr battery with about 3000 feet elevation gain, and a 265 lb guy getting 18 miles with similar battery and elevation, that's useful. It's also helpful to know if the riders are in great shape or total couch potatoes. Having some basic info about the rider and the route at least helps us get a sense of what to expect before we buy a bike. A lot of people aren't able to go on full demo rides because they aren't available locally. I don't want to get a bike and find out the battery dies at 5 miles into the ride (I'm a big guy).


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

The answer you at looking for is in the specialized forum for the Levo.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I’m a strong rider, but my wife is a couch potato, she has a Levo FSR Comp that she uses to keep up with me. Most of our rides are technical with significant climbing (Tahoe area), three to four hours, she tends to stay in the low and middle settings, and the most she’s ever used is ~50%.

I think some motors and batteries last longer, build quality seems to vary, temperature can also affects range. I’ve not ridden the Levo much, so I’m not sure how long it would last me if I took it out and tried to use up the entire charge. If I get the itch to go wild, I might try and burn it up some weekend.

I suspect you could get all day or even multiple days of riding from a charge if you were conservative.


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## levity (Oct 31, 2011)

justin70 said:


> ... no need to get all intellectual...


LOL, I hope the Swiss engineers that designed it used _their_ intellect! Jill has it right, it's not rocket science. To ride all day or multiple days on a single charge as suggested by Nurse Ben you would have to set the power level very low. For example,10% Eco mode would give you ~50 watts (a pretty small boost) for ~10 hours. This barely makes up for the heavier bike.



justin70 said:


> ... If there is a 165 lb guy getting 30 miles on a 500Whr battery with about 3000 feet elevation gain...


Ok, here's an example. I'm 165 lb. and have a Levo ride recorded on my Garmin that was 24 miles with 2850 ft. climbed. Motor settings were Eco 25%, Trail 45%, Turbo 70%. I stayed in Eco mode most of the time except when needing to push hard. I used 59% of the battery, ~300 watts, over a 2 hr ride time. That comes out to an average of ~150 watts/hr or ~30% average power level. Had I continued another hour on similar trails I could have gone ~36 miles with ~4300 ft climbing and had ~10% battery remaining. I think 40/4k (40 miles, 4000 ft.) is a reasonable range estimate at these power levels. Knocking out 50 miles and 5k ft elevation would require lowering the power settings and working quite a bit harder. At that point it's time to consider taking my lighter and more agile non-E Stumpy and not stressing over a drained battery.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

justin70 said:


> If people could include body weight that would be super helpful. There's gotta be a huge range difference between a 150lb vs 250lb rider.


The one major message that has been pounded into me by my Bosch-powered eBike (and this will apply to any electric bike), is that it takes a LOT more watts to move an extra ten pounds than I would have guessed. It really doesn't make sense to compare the range of two ebikes unless the riders are close to the same weight *and* power output. Both factors will skew the performance by huge amounts.

Contrary to what a lot of people would guess about ebike riders, my ebike has given me incentive to lose weight, not given me incentive to slack off.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, weight matters a lot, which is why electric cars makers aim for lightweight chasis.

If someone is large, ie 250# or more, an ebike may not be a good solution, which is why there are motorcycles.

I'm not trying to be cruel here, but it is really just physics.



honkinunit said:


> The one major message that has been pounded into me by my Bosch-powered eBike (and this will apply to any electric bike), is that it takes a LOT more watts to move an extra ten pounds than I would have guessed. It really doesn't make sense to compare the range of two ebikes unless the riders are close to the same weight *and* power output. Both factors will skew the performance by huge amounts.
> 
> Contrary to what a lot of people would guess about ebike riders, my ebike has given me incentive to lose weight, not given me incentive to slack off.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

My owners manual for my Levo says up to 300lbs. I am not really sure why it would be suggested that a heavy rider shouldn't ride an ebike. Maybe if they get their fat butt out on a ebike it won't be fat for long. The Levo is built like a tank but if I was really heavy I would buy some custom rims for it. The spokes are very thin. I've lost one spoke in 1800 miles.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You're missing the point... it's about the bikes capacity to carry a heavier ride, it's the the amount of power required to carry a heavy rider.

The more you weigh and/or the less you contribute, the less distance you can travel on a charge.



Giant Warp said:


> My owners manual for my Levo says up to 300lbs. I am not really sure why it would be suggested that a heavy rider shouldn't ride an ebike. Maybe if they get their fat butt out on a ebike it won't be fat for long. The Levo is built like a tank but if I was really heavy I would buy some custom rims for it. The spokes are very thin. I've lost one spoke in 1800 miles.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I'm 240#. When I ride my ebike the lighter riders definitely have an advantage in the acceleration and distance categories compared to me. But, the ebike definitely is an advantage over a normal bike even at my weight. 

Many bikes are rated for a maximum load, not just ebikes. I've normally seen between 260 and 300# as the limit. I'm sure this has alot to do with liability and reliability of all the parts on the bike. Not something I normally worry about even when I'm knocking on the door of the limit.


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## EricTheDood (Sep 22, 2017)

scotteric said:


> Yes I suppose but I'd still be curious to here what kind of range people are getting, on a Levo or any similar battery/motor set up....


I tried commuting with a Levo once and drained a 500wH battery completely in 35 miles on flat pavement. That said, I was holding a much faster average speed than I would have on dirt, and wind resistance became a major factor.

I use my Kenevo for self-shuttling 1-2X a month at a popular DH shuttle trail. I climb a paved road and get about 5000ft of climbing (5 runs) before the battery is drained.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I rode 20 miles of combined road & off road yesterday with about 2000' of climbing, some of it pretty tortuous ascents, on a Haibike SDURO (Yamaha) hardtail (180 pound rider) and used 50% of a 400 w-h battery. Probably could have nursed it to 40% or slightly less with more relaxed riding speed. As indicated weight and speed make a big difference. When my wife and I ride our BBS02's (she weighs 120) I need to pedal a lot harder to keep up with her if we're on similar settings, and (probably - based on how long it requires to recharge our batteries) she uses less amps.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

The Levo doesn't say 300 lb = rider plus bike. It says rider can be three hundred pounds. Anyway, on regular bikes I've been on flow trails where a much heavier rider could maintain the momentum while I had to pedal like crazy. On a big hill of course the heavy have a big disadvantage but the heavy rider could most likely have incredibly powerful legs. The electric assist can fill that gap and it could be possible (depending on the trail) for the heavy rider to out perform the lighter rider. Interesting concept.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> You're missing the point... it's about the bikes capacity to carry a heavier ride, it's the the amount of power required to carry a heavy rider.
> 
> The more you weigh and/or the less you contribute, the less distance you can travel on a charge.


I agree, more weight would mean more amps on a hill. What I was trying to say was that I have ridden with strong clyds. They just need a little help on the hills but when they get to a flow trail then look out. Gravity is also clyds friend. On a flow trail their additional weight can carry the momentum and maybe use less amps than a 120 lb rider. I am not a clyde per say but my riding weight is heavier than my wife. I use less amps than my wife because I am much stronger than her. The bigger thing for a clyde to worry about before battery life is breaking the drive train.


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## brbo (Feb 25, 2018)

I've only seen a couple comments on - Temperature.....this is a big factor also

OP if you are looking for an exact amount of time, elevation or distance - I think the numerous responses is clear there are a ton of factors that apply

Surface, weight, elevation, temperature, power, cadence all sorts of factors, 

I would recommend after my experience over the last 4 months on mine, is if you can borrow or rent one and test it out on your typical ride you are looking to do with it and do it a few times over and even your results will differ but at least you get a good sense of what the Levo can do...


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## scotteric (Aug 22, 2005)

brbo said:


> I've only seen a couple comments on - Temperature.....this is a big factor also
> 
> OP if you are looking for an exact amount of time, elevation or distance - I think the numerous responses is clear there are a ton of factors that apply
> 
> ...


I realize there are no exact numbers, just looking for real world experience which is what I'm getting. Thanks to all who have responded.


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## Doomanic (Oct 11, 2011)

I have a Trek Powerfly LT with the Bosch CX motor and 500W battery. I get 22-28 and 2500-3200 feet of climbing miles out of a full battery. I run mostly in Eco or Tour mode with the occasional blast of eMTB or Turbo mode if the terrain requires it. Temps here have been 0-5° for all my rides which will affect range.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

So previously I showed that weight (aka clydes) are not necessarily at a disadvantage for battery power on a flow trail since they can use their heavy weight and the heavy weight of the ebike to keep the momentum going. Temperature also causes outside the box thinking when it comes to ebikes. Unfortunately my experience is limited to the Levo so I can't comment on other bikes. In the summer the Levo motor gets hot. When it gets hot the motor goes into de-rate and cuts the power back to like 50%. (just guessing on the 50% since I don't know the exact number). When you restrict the amperage because of heat guess what happens? Double the distance! Yay! Not only is this heat info outside the box thinking but the cold performance thinking is also the same bizarre'o world realm. Everybody knows that batteries don't produce as much in the cold but the Levo battery sits inside a comfy channel in the frame. The Levo app lets you monitor battery and motor temp so this is not something that I am guessing about. The battery produces heat when in use and it is actually warm in the winter if you can believe that. In other words there is no performance loss in the cold and if anything the battery is at the optimal performance temp in the cold. Crazy. The motor temp is also warm in the cold weather so it is also at prime operating parameters. I have ridden through two winter seasons now with my Levo and the winter performance is stellar.

I know that the 2018 Levo Carbon is supposed to have better heat transfer from the motor but I can't verify since I have a 2017 aluminum frame. I would bet that at 90 F the motor is going to get hot and de-rate.

The stats on one of my winter rides on asphalt was 28 miles, 1562 ft climbing, 14 mph avg speed, temp was below freezing with blowing snow and drifts, had studded tires on. I used every electron available. My total winter riding weight with gear was around 210 lbs plus a 52 lb bike.


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