# Cleary Meerkat, Woom 5, or Frog 62



## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

The kid has outgrown his much-loved Spawn Banshee but still loves to ride it. It's just time to get a bigger bike. He's 7 and 51 inches tall now with a 23 inch inseam, so we're looking at 24" wheels. 

If I could get the Banshee itself in just a bigger size, I would in a heartbeat. As it is, we're navigating the sea of 24" options.

I'd like to get a quality bike that is also lightweight and has a rigid fork. At this point, I'm eyeing the Cleary Meerkat (https://www.readysetpedal.com/collections/24-bikes-9-13-yrs/products/cleary-meerkat-24-bike), the Woom 5 (https://us.woombikes.com/products/5), and the Frog 62 (https://www.readysetpedal.com/collections/24-bikes-9-13-yrs/products/frog-62-8-speed-bicycle?rfsn=721531.8201e&variant=37172589889). While the Woom 5 is the lightest at under 20 lbs, all seem to be nice lightweight bikes. 

I've looked at some other options, but I'm not keen to go over 25 pounds unless there is a compelling quality or functionality difference.

Can anyone provide feedback on these bikes?

We live in a town with a lot of singletrack and some great pump tracks nearby. There are full fledged bike parks with jumps bigger than I am, but I don't think my kiddo will be taking this next bike on those. When he's older and at that point, I'll be willing to invest in the right bike for that job. Although the suspension version of the Frog is interesting. https://www.readysetpedal.com/collections/24-bikes-9-13-yrs/products/frog-62-mountain-bike

I'd really appreciate any advice or help you could offer. Thanks!


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I'd pass on all those and try to get ahold of an Orbea MX24 Disk bike. I think they are about 550$ and are the "go-to" Rigid bike in this size and price point. I typically avoid the more neighborhood bike brands for real mountain biking+kids. That being said, the Islabike Creig Pro 24 is insanely nice, however its 2300$.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for your reply. I'll definitely take a look at the Orbea. If we were to go up in price range, I'd probably give up my idea for a rigid fork and get him a Trailcraft Pineridge... Honestly, it wouldn't take too much of a nudge.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Amom said:


> Thanks for your reply. I'll definitely take a look at the Orbea. If we were to go up in price range, I'd probably give up my idea for a rigid fork and get him a Trailcraft Pineridge... Honestly, it wouldn't take too much of a nudge.


Ha. Well the TC is a pretty amazing bike. Only thing I don't like is the steep head angle. My 6yr jumps everything and goes hard downhill on his Yama Jama 20" and I wouldn't want that steep headangle. FWIW we are going to build a Ripcord 24" in the 23/24lb range this next winter. I think we can get the pricing close or under 2k$ using trail craft wheels and some discounts. I think it's a lot better geometry than the trail craft pine ridge if your kid isn't just XC riding and it's full suspension. Regardless, its all about just getting them time in the saddle with a decent bike (Orbea style rigid is great imo) so going big time on the price definitely isn't required unless they are truly maxing it out.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

The Yama Jama is a great bike. We love Spawn and they do make some really nice 24s.

The hard decision point is figuring out what level bike will add to our family experience over the next few years, so value not price.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Amom said:


> The Yama Jama is a great bike. We love Spawn and they do make some really nice 24s.
> 
> The hard decision point is figuring out what level bike will add to our family experience over the next few years, so value not price.


The only thing about their 24's is the high stack on all of them. Their headtube is way to long at 110mm and should have been 90mm since they are using the 26" fork. TC and Transition did that, Spawn did not. Its probably not a HUGE deal but its a lot of money to fork out for a bike that doesn't fit a kid ideally.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

That is really good to know. If spending that much, I really do want right fit and not need any tinkering. This has been really helpful!


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

If you want any information on the Spawn YJ 24" - let me know. We have 2 of them.

https://rascalrides.com/spawn-yama-jama-review/

The stack height on the 24" isn't an issue. It's not clownish and doesn't impact fit. In fact, I would argue the stem height off the ground is similar to the other bikes mentioned. If you account for fork sag and the slack head angle. The Comencial with 100mm fork is a bit up there though. But even so, removing a couple head set spacers and you're closer to neutral. Along with how upright of a position is "correct" for the rider and type of riding.

But for the record, the only bike off the shelf that comes complete and requires no fuss or adjustment or tinkering is the Trailcraft Pineridge. Beyond that, the Isla.

The Spawn comes with mediocre gearing (compared to a real adult bike) and the stock cranks are arguably too long. But it's a very nice handling bike with gobs of traction.

When looking at anything under 1k, make sure your'e honest with yourself about what the final cost/price will be. The Orbea is truly a gem. However the price tag isn't representative of what you'll likely spend. Because the cranks are way too long + $160 and you'll eventually buy a shock + $225. But even with those costs, it's still a great value.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

This is really good for me to think about. We live in the mountains, so a bike that climbs well is key. The gearing on the Trailcraft is good for hills...

The Trailcraft is more bike than my kid needs, but I want to get him a quality bike. I'm wondering though if we bought a mid level bike and then ended up making modifications if I would end up spending so much that I would have wished that I had just spent for the Trailcraft... I also at this point would rather get a bike that is ready to go without spending the time to make changes. 

Its not even so much about the money, I want to get him the right bike to build skills and have fun. Is the Trailcraft *too* nice? Will it be twitchy?


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

That review of the Yama Jama was great and really informative. I feel like we are in the same starting point as the review and spinning a bit with all of the options.

We have loved our Spawn bike, but I painfully remember the waiting period when we ordered the bike, delays, shipping time, etc. I really wish we could get one locally. 

Frankly I probably should have bought a new bike before last season. While the kid is perfectly happy riding his bike that is really obviously too small, I'm hesitant to buy something that will take a long time to get here. My impatience, not his, though.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

The Spawns are 10x more bike than my kids need. Right now. But I expect them to progress over the next 2+yrs before they outgrow them. Knowing they like to ride at all was enough for me to throw down the cash. I wanted to ensure they had quality functional equipment that would not limit them at all. And do nothing but boost their confidence.

Why spend all that money when they are somewhat new and haven't proven themselves as future Olympians? BECAUSE I LIKE TO RIDE WITH THEM. We have a blast. I love watching them learn and grow right before my eyes. I love the mini adventures. Even when it turns into a shitshow. It's one of the most awesome things we've experienced together. In another blink, they will be teenagers.

I think the answer to your question is probably the Trailcraft Winter Build. 

I think the Isla is a bit much. It's expensive. And unless the kid is a full on NICA racer with at least a year's experience, I wouldn't even consider it.

Too twitchy? Fair question. My kids do wander a bit when climbing on the Spawn. The steeper head angle of the Trailcraft would help correct that. But my kids are adapting and wandering less and less. On the other end, my twins have almost zero handling skills. And on the Spawn they can carve through swoopy corners pretty darn well.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

Amom said:


> The kid has outgrown his much-loved Spawn Banshee but still loves to ride it. It's just time to get a bigger bike. He's 7 and 51 inches tall now with a 23 inch inseam, so we're looking at 24" wheels. We live in a town with a lot of singletrack and some great pump tracks nearby. There are full fledged bike parks with jumps bigger than I am, but I don't think my kiddo will be taking this next bike on those. When he's older and at that point, I'll be willing to invest in the right bike for that job. Although the suspension version of the Frog is interesting. https://www.readysetpedal.com/collections/24-bikes-9-13-yrs/products/frog-62-mountain-bikeI'd really appreciate any advice or help you could offer. Thanks!


We don't live in a town close to any bike parks (or BMX) and had you asked me a year ago I'd have thought no-way.... he was racing XC (and still is)Jnr is now 8... he did a DH race last weekend and has another this Sunday.As with everything else... whatever I expect seems to not come true. He only got into XC due to meeting some now good friends in a car-park... and he only did the DH because of another chance meeting... and he did his first race last year and practices on a XC bike. As svinyard say's the Orbeas are pretty good and they also have a good trail geometry. They all have disc mounts and can all (in 24) take a suspension fork... We ended up with a second bike for DH... (Full Suss) and for the kids XC races a suspension fork isn't really needed.. *If I knew in advance* everything I do now I'd have got a basic orbea and stuck with disc brakes and some shorter cranks. He rides his FS on most trails now and mostly uses the XC for racing and a few training runs or riding locally. I don't want to put more money into it but now he has the FS he could easily have a rigid fork on the XC focussed bike... Equally the Orbea fitted with a sups for will be good for most stuff... so you have a lot of choice. The Frog is more a fire road geometry... chain stays look huge so as a general purpose trail bike I'd avoid.


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## zimm (Sep 23, 2008)

The Cleary is out of stock until Summer time when they have a new version. I went with an Orbea MX 24. There's the disc, but for $120 more you can get it with the suspension fork (MX 24 trail) model. Ours will be here next week.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

zimm said:


> The Cleary is out of stock until Summer time when they have a new version. I went with an Orbea MX 24. There's the disc, but for $120 more you can get it with the suspension fork (MX 24 trail) model. Ours will be here next week.


That's a good move man. I'm not entirely comfortable dropping cash on the other bike brands that are clearly focused on my Neighborhood bikes, especially if your kid is going to really mountain bike with it and not just do general trail riding. Cheers


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Doh! I definitely do not want fire road geometry. We live in the mountains. How can I tell from the specs what geometry is good?

It may seem silly, but my kid doesn't like the colors the Orbeas come in. :-/

Any ideas for another good rigid like the Orbea?

I'm in talks with the family CFO about the Trailcraft...


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Short chain stays are a good indicator for eyeballing geometry. Short chain stays allow the rider to more easily lift/unweight the front wheel over obstacles. This is the key feature behind the desirability for the Orbea, Spawn, Trailcraft. Head tube angle is an endless debate. Generally speaking, a "steeper" head angle means it will climb better. A more "slack" (chopper) head tube angle means it will go down hills and corner better. Like anything, there's a middle ground.

The Orbea is the only thing in a well build rigid. Aside from the Cleary. Perhaps take a look at the Prevelo Zulu. It's a nice bike. The geometry isn't what I would design, but it's pretty good.

You could also call Trailcraft and ask them about a rigid build. They'll do it. I know because I asked. But it only saves $100-ish. And if you're going to do it, I'd suggest just doing it with the shock.

If the CFO has a problem with the Trailcraft. Just have the CFO call Ginger at Trailcraft and let her close the deal


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Amom said:


> Doh! I definitely do not want fire road geometry. We live in the mountains. How can I tell from the specs what geometry is good?
> 
> It may seem silly, but my kid doesn't like the colors the Orbeas come in. :-/
> 
> ...


I wouldn't go Trail Craft unless your kid is flying already. Or freaky passionate (wants to bomb everything, ride on the rain snow etc. Etc)

Prevelo Alpha 4 is a decent option if Orbea won't cut it. I'll see if I can find other rigid bikes without plus tires and a decent drive train. That's what I'd say 80-90% of kids need. Don't fall for the coil suspension or plus tires. You can just get a high volume normal tire and avoid all of that extra weight. It's important for climbing. My kid rides in all weather and big trails and never once has needed or wanted a plus tire.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

The Raleigh Rowdy 24in is a cheap option (you might need bike shop to fix stuff on it and there are no disk brakes)


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Dude the Rocky Mountain Vertex 24 looks dope for the price! I haven't dug in entirely but that looks like a super solid option with a pretty decent air fork (the new suntour) plus hydraulic brakes, decent drive train etc.

Also check out the Norco Charger 4.1 for another nice air fork bike. Both of those are around 700-800 and look cool and definitely known for making great adult mtb bikes.

One of things I really like about the Vertex is that (assuming the crank length is around 140ish) the cassette range is 11-36 AND the chainring is a 28t (on a Shimano compatible bottom bracket fyi). That means the bike will have a less top speed (not important) but definitely have light enough gearing to climb really well. Some of these other bikes have terrible cassette range (11-28) and then a 36t upfront. That's nutty. Sure it's not perfect but if shifter breaks or whatever, just get it replaced with something better. It won't break the bank and Rocky Mountain is a legit company. The geo looks nice from a quick look. The 68d head angle is ideal in our experience. When I see my 6yr overshoot a table top...im super thankful for that steeper head angle and the nice suspension fork. Guaranteed it's kept him from going over the bars many times as he learned and pushed the limits (still doing it). If you kid goes hard, they will surprise you sometimes.

I also just don't think there are other really nice Rigid bikes out there.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

SactoGeoff said:


> Short chain stays are a good indicator for eyeballing geometry. Short chain stays allow the rider to more easily lift/unweight the front wheel over obstacles. This is the key feature behind the desirability for the Orbea, Spawn, Trailcraft. Head tube angle is an endless debate. Generally speaking, a "steeper" head angle means it will climb better. A more "slack" (chopper) head tube angle means it will go down hills and corner better. Like anything, there's a middle ground.


This is super helpful and simple. I've been trying to figure this out, but my Google skills have been failing me.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Islabike Creig 24 (air fork) and Scott Scale Jr RC 24 (rigid) look like great bikes too. Just have to figure out the color your kid likes.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

svinyard said:


> If you kid goes hard, they will surprise you sometimes.
> 
> I also just don't think there are other really nice Rigid bikes out there.


I have definitely had my share of surprises from this one. ;-) I'm a big fan of having The right equipment. It can really help mitigate some of those surprises.

The kid hasn't been exposed to a lot of fun stuff on a bike yet, so I'm not sure exactly what he'll do, but he tries to make his own fun jumping over curbs and anything he can find.

He has been going off jumps and playing in terrain parks on skis since he was 3, so I'm guessing he'll really like playing on a bike... but it is just a guess though at this point.


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Off to go check out all these bikes...

He would be most happy with neon green/OSHA high-vis safety yellow... Super bright straight out of the 80s... As least it makes it easier to keep an eye on him...

Hrm... I might be able to get away with taking the new Rocky Mountain Vertex 24 and putting a neon pad on the top tube and switching out the grips for something neon...


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## Amom (Apr 25, 2014)

Well, something funny happened this week... CFO was willing to authorize spend on the Trailcraft *if* we went to local bike shop to see kid on a 24 to be sure it would fit. (It did, without question.) 

I found a bike shop that had the Orbea MX 24 in stock and off we went. Kid looked great riding the Orbea, so we were all ready to plunk down the $ on the MX 24 team disc and kid spotted the Cannondale Cujo 24+ and begged to ride it. Weight wise, the stock Cujo didn't feel far off the Orbea MX 24 (unscientific parent lifting to compare weight test). It could easily shed some weight if needed.

We shrug, sales guy pulls it down and off to the parking lot. Kid flies around the parking lot on the bike looking like he has owned it for years with a huge smile on his face. To my surprise, kid actually loved the twist shifter and preferred the wider tire. Sales guy says "you know, he looks happier on this one..." It was obvious. We decided to go home and sleep on it.

We were ready and prepared to spend over $1300, but kid fell in love with a new bike for under $500 that already has disc breaks (not hydraulic) and 130 cranks. (Other components aren't the highest spec, but they do the job and for under $500, if he really *needs* any upgrades, I'm not going to be upset to spend and change them.) 

CFO is happy and said if it looks like he needs the Trailcraft next season, we'll buy it without a second thought. Looking at the kid and how much he loves the Cujo, we're both guessing we'll be revisiting the TC when it is time for a 26.

We are going to go back to the shop to buy the bike this afternoon. Kid is happy and wants to ride -- it is all he has talked about for days. He has been pretending to pedal at the dinner table (annoying at the time but great that he is so happy). CFO is happy. I found an incredible new bike shop with a great selection and service area. All in all a good ending for us. Thanks so much to all who provided advice.


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## mjbrox (Jan 6, 2005)

So Is the Orbea MX24


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