# Guess how much protein?



## bank5 (May 7, 2008)

I've been cutting back on my meat consumption but am trying to eat at least 150g of protein a day. I'm expecting it to be pretty challenging to consume that much protein without eating lean meats in a 3,000 calorie diet. 

I'm going to track my food on MyDailyPlate.com for a few days to see how things breakdown. For breakfast today I had one serving of: oatmeal, walnuts, raisins and almond milk

Very healthy food, and protein sources could include the oatmeal, almond milk, raisins.

The breakdown is:
25g of Fat
64g of Carbs
12g of Protein

43% fat, 48% carbs, 9% protein


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## RDylan (Jun 26, 2010)

textured vegetable protein (tvp), an awesome product you can buy in most health food stores or some bulk food stores. Add to anything like oatmeal or sauces.


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## eddie80 (Apr 28, 2006)

Try a fruit smoothie/protein shake for breakfast or add it as a snack. I like designer whey strawberry protein or chocolate muscle milk....although mm is pricey. 
I add: 1cup frozen strawberries and blueberries, 1 cup milk, 1scoop of protein, spoonful of flaxseed, and throw it all in the Magic bullet(which is a great single serving blender)
This fills me up for a few hours in the morning.....I also drink one for recovery after riding or weightlifting. Seems to work great for me


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## bank5 (May 7, 2008)

RDylan said:


> textured vegetable protein (tvp), an awesome product you can buy in most health food stores or some bulk food stores. Add to anything like oatmeal or sauces.


Thanks for the tip. I've read mixed things on soy. Do you know how much isoflavones are it it?

I'm going to start adding some ground flaxseed to my meals too which has a few grams of protein and an ample supply of omega-3s.



eddie80 said:


> Try a fruit smoothie/protein shake for breakfast or add it as a snack. I like designer whey strawberry protein or chocolate muscle milk....although mm is pricey.
> I add: 1cup frozen strawberries and blueberries, 1 cup milk, 1scoop of protein, spoonful of flaxseed, and throw it all in the Magic bullet(which is a great single serving blender)
> This fills me up for a few hours in the morning.....I also drink one for recovery after riding or weightlifting. Seems to work great for me


I have a feeling I'm going to need to start eating more protein powder if I want to get 150g a day and eat mostly vegetarian. I'm going to start searching for the healthiest brands. One thing I like doing is making my own protein bars by mixing protein powder with peanut butter, oats, a bit of milk, and sometimes nuts, raisins, and ground falxseed.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

bank5 said:


> I have a feeling I'm going to need to start eating more protein powder if I want to get 150g a day and eat mostly vegetarian.


Yeah, especially since you are trying to go low carb, too. That is why most serious athletes have given up on being vegetarian. To get enough protein, you have to either get too many calories, or eat fake food. I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.


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## bank5 (May 7, 2008)

Bill in Houston said:


> Yeah, especially since you are trying to go low carb, too. That is why most serious athletes have given up on being vegetarian. To get enough protein, you have to either get too many calories, or eat fake food. I'm sure you'll find something that works for you.


I'm not trying to go low carb. I'm looking for a diet of at least 20% protein, 50-60% carbs and 20-30% fat.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

bank5 said:


> I'm not trying to go low carb. I'm looking for a diet of at least 20% protein, 50-60% carbs and 20-30% fat.


Keep up the good work and don't let the naysayers dissuade you. There are plenty of world class athlete's that are vegetarian.

Who are some of the famous vegetarian athletes? - Yahoo! Answers


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## bank5 (May 7, 2008)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Keep up the good work and don't let the naysayers dissuade you. There are plenty of world class athlete's that are vegetarian.
> 
> Who are some of the famous vegetarian athletes? - Yahoo! Answers


Interesting list. Tony Gonzalez should probably be removed from it tho - here's an interesting article on him - The 247 lb. Vegan - WSJ.com


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

bank5 said:


> I'm not trying to go low carb. I'm looking for a diet of at least 20% protein, 50-60% carbs and 20-30% fat.


Ah, I misunderstood your immediate dismissal of rice as a healthy food on your other thread, then. My mistake. Carry on.


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## Samanth (Mar 4, 2012)

Cranberry juice with whey and yogurt will do the trick!


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

You're gonna need some beano and lactaid! =)


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

bank5 said:


> Thanks for the tip. I've read mixed things on soy. Do you know how much isoflavones are it it?


Steer clear of the TVP, that stuff is junk. If you are worried about "bad" soy, that is it. Tofu, tempeh, edemame, etc. is the good stuff. The more highly processed the soy the worse for you.

Don't forget to include nuts and legumes in your diet. In the warm months I have a fruit shake for breakfast and put in pea protein, rice protein and hemp seeds.

My wife was worried that I was not getting enough protein in my diet so I tracked a typical summer (race season) day and ended up with twice as much protein as recommended. Of course that was consuming 8k calories in one day, but I eat a bunch and am thin.

150 grams of protein sounds like a lot. "Many sports nutritionistsrecommend as much as 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight." From: Vegan Guide to Sports Nutrition - OrganicAthlete

Btw, if any of you are interested in the racing and training of a vegan mountain bike racer: Hyland Fisher - Vegan Athlete | Facebook


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## GPeek (Sep 1, 2005)

vuduvgn said:


> Steer clear of the TVP, that stuff is junk. If you are worried about "bad" soy, that is it. Tofu, tempeh, edemame, etc. is the good stuff. The more highly processed the soy the worse for you.
> 
> Don't forget to include nuts and legumes in your diet. In the warm months I have a fruit shake for breakfast and put in pea protein, rice protein and hemp seeds.
> 
> ...


I second what vuduvgn said. TVP is highly processed; I would stay away from it. With soy, tempeh is fermented so it is easier for your body to digest and use than tofu or edemame. Get a good wide variety of beans, brown rice, quinoa, whole grains, sprouted grains with lots fresh fruit and vegetables especially green leafy ones and you will get enough protein plus a boatload of macronutrients. A lot of the new studies I have read lately are saying around 0.8 gm of protein per kg body weight is enough for most people with some athletes requiring 1.2gm per kg.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

what's wrong w/ eating meat?
it's more natural than a lot of the PROCESSED crap that is out there.

I understand there are some ethical issues - and I'm willing to 'go there' if any of y'all want, but I'm mainly asking about the nutrition side - why do you think it's bad?


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

highdelll said:


> what's wrong w/ eating meat?
> it's more natural than a lot of the PROCESSED crap that is out there.
> 
> I understand there are some ethical issues - and I'm willing to 'go there' if any of y'all want, but I'm mainly asking about the nutrition side - why do you think it's bad?


Let them eat their vegetables... If they bother you about eating meat then you can say something!

Speaking about nutrients *ONLY*

Most vegetable proteins are not complete and you need a complete protein to build muscle which is what all th trouble is about here. There are plant alternatives, but they are inferior sources.

Health wise, meat isn't great for your gut. There have been some studies that a meat heavy diet increases the risk of cancers of the stomach.

Not that it really sways me either way since your vegetables are likely dosed up with enough pesticides to grown in the dark.


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## gsoroos (Jan 4, 2012)

Another great protein source is hemp powder or hemp nuggets. use it in place of whey, it's less processed. https://store.nutiva.com/hemp-protein/


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## Erotomania (Feb 14, 2011)

I'm just now adding protein supplements to my diet, and I'm furious I hesitated this long. I've been using Optimum Nutrition's Pro Complex as a breakfast replacement and post ride supplement. Each serving is 60g protein and it's a blend of fast and slow acting protein. It's only been a month and I have no complaints. My legs are exploding and my recovery time is cut in half. I can't imagine consuming the same amount of protein with diet alone.


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## ptkevin (Feb 18, 2012)

hemp protein and rice protein would make an easy protein shake that would be easy to digest


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## JDM (May 2, 2008)

Are you still eating eggs?


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

Fish, fish and more fish. A nice helping of salmon or grouper is loaded w/ high quality protein omega 3's and little else.

So is stuff like mussels, shrimp, scallops, grilled calamari. 

I incorporate a lot of this into my diet, along w/ a protein shake or two (depending on what I'm doing). Zero red meat. My body love it. Been cutting flab and adding lean muscle to my frame consistently for months now.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

Fish and other seafood are still meat.

I've been trying to cut soy out of my diet completely, I'm not into it and don't like how processed it gets. Quinoa and legumes. Lentils, chickpeas and dark green leafy plants. You have to eat more of it to get the same amount of protein as you would a steak but I think it's better.

The book "Becoming Vegan" is an excellent resource.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Why the cutback on meat?

You might look into spirulina powder too, added to a smoothie...adds a little highly nutritious protein kick. Hemp suggestions are good. Soy, depends on if you believe in the estrogen increase or not. Also watch out because most soy is GMO if that's a concern. If not, eat/drink away. Spinach, avocado, broccoli, asparagus, peas are a good veggie source. Quinoa is a great source, 18g per cup cooked. Beans, Lentils and Legumes are good sources. Of course dairy is a good source if you're not going vegan. Grab some whey powder at Costco, $50 for a bag with 75 28g servings. Made by the same people that make Muscle Milk.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Hemp protein! Trader Joes has the best price around if you've got TJ's nearby. 

My gf and I put quinoa in any dish that calls for rice. Cook it up in fruit juice, coconut water, almond milk, etc to change the flavor. It's great with yogurt and fruit. Makes for great veggie burgers with beans or lentils. And it's a complete protein. 
Store cooked grains in ziploc bags rather than tupperware so they retain their moisture better, not sure why it works so well but it does. 

Silken tofu can also mix very easily into any smoothies, yogurts, salad dressings, sauces, etc. 

Have you tried making seitan? Super protein-rich and soy free meat substitute, made from vital wheat gluten. It's probably the best and easiest meat substitute to make at home, make a big batch and freeze what you dont use for later consumption. It's expensive to buy pre-made and is labor intensive to make, but it's easier to make a ton at once and freeze what you dont think you'll eat within the week. 

Dark leafy greens are essential for their iron content. Most have decent protein counts as well. 

Dont underestimate the nutritional ingredients in yams and sweet potatoes. They're loaded.

Might want to look into using dates as sweetener as well. Great potassium source, more protein than sugar. Great for blending in to smoothies or any baked goods.


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## El Train (Apr 21, 2007)

why do you want to eat so much protein in the first place?


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

El Train said:


> why do you want to eat so much protein in the first place?


huh? OP is shooting for 20%. That's not a lot by any stretch. When I lifted, I consumed 250-300 grams per day.


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

Eggs are about the best "non-meat" source. 

Most plants aren't a complete protein. Quinoa exempted. Vegetarians have to stack to get complete proteins. Rice and beans is an example. Even then, you only get a few grams of protein, and probably 10x as much or more of carbs. Not overly efficent, IMO.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

Eazy_E said:


> Eggs are about the best "non-meat" source.
> 
> Most plants aren't a complete protein. Quinoa exempted. Vegetarians have to stack to get complete proteins. Rice and beans is an example. Even then, you only get a few grams of protein, and probably 10x as much or more of carbs. Not overly efficent, IMO.


I'll race ya!



It's really not that complicated to get a complete and balanced diet from plants. The difficulty/complexity is terribly over-hyped. It's also a lot easier than it used to be, plus you don't get all that pesky cholesterol and artery hardening.


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

I dare you to find me anything credible that a diet high in saturated fats or cholesterol puts you at risk for atherosclerosis or cardiac disease. The lipid hypothesis is dead, unquestionably.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

Eazy_E said:


> I dare you to find me anything credible that a diet high in saturated fats or cholesterol puts you at risk for atherosclerosis or cardiac disease. The lipid hypothesis is dead, unquestionably.


Seeing as how I am not a nutritionist by trade I doubt anything I provide will be convincing. Am I to assume you also disqualify the research done by Dr. Colin Campbell and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn?


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## somexiridemybike (Jul 25, 2006)

Quinoa is the closest thing to a complete protein. It's missing just a few amino acids. As others have said mix it with beans or legumes and there you have it. Also kale is unbelievably healthy and packed full of vital nutrients. You can steam it, sautée it, braise it, eat it raw, etc. You might also look for kaniwa. It is related to quinoa, just as healthy, cooks the same and is roughly the size of cous cous. It doesn't have the saponin some quinoas might have. Almond or rice milk are always good. Typically the more colors you have on a plate the better off you are. I enjoy a lot of fresh salads over the summer. Lots if leafy greens, beans, nuts, grilled or seared tofu. Just my .02.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

The current theories regard atherosclerosis have to do with things like inflammation, lack of anti-oxidants, oxidized fats (saturated fats are resistant to oxidation), etc. It has very little to do with the ingestion of saturated fats or cholesterol. Having said that, a Vegan diet is probably good for heart health due to the abundance of nutrients you get from plants. The only problem is that being vegan gives you a righteous attitude which offends those around you. Don't be like DurianRider LOL.

This is a good site to learn about cholesterol
The Daily Lipid: Fat and Cholesterol


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

beanbag said:


> The only problem is that being vegan gives you a righteous attitude which offends those around you. Don't be like DurianRider LOL.[/url]


Yea, some of us are worse than others and I have certainly go in phases of up on the soapbox or listening quietly. I have a friend who recently decided to go vegan and it was because of DurianRider, not kidding.


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

beanbag said:


> The only problem is that being vegan gives you a righteous attitude which offends those around you. Don't be like DurianRider LOL.


How do you know you're in the room with a vegan?

He'll tell you.


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

Eazy_E said:


> How do you know you're in the room with a vegan?
> 
> He'll tell you.


i couldnt agree with you more. the percentage of annoying and pretentious vegans is waaaay too high.

and thats coming from me, someone who doesnt eat meat.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

beanbag said:


> The current theories regard atherosclerosis have to do with things like inflammation, lack of anti-oxidants, oxidized fats (saturated fats are resistant to oxidation), etc. It has very little to do with the ingestion of saturated fats or cholesterol. Having said that, a Vegan diet is probably good for heart health due to the abundance of nutrients you get from plants. The only problem is that being vegan gives you a righteous attitude which offends those around you. Don't be like DurianRider LOL.
> 
> This is a good site to learn about cholesterol
> The Daily Lipid: Fat and Cholesterol


+1. Inflammation is bad. Real bad.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

It's one reason--among many--I don't label my dietary habits. Pretentious self-righteous vegan ********s. I hate them. Where's Tone's L'axemen's thread?


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

Great. This has turned from a forum user looking for some input into his diet to a vegan bashing event.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

nah, vegans are fine. group hug. hug it out, y'all. oh, okay, thaaat's nice. i feel better.


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

vuduvgn said:


> Great. This has turned from a forum user looking for some input into his diet to a vegan bashing event.


exactly as planned


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## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

I watched the movies "forks over knives" and "food matters", both pretty convincing. What i got out of it is that ALL animal protein is bad for your arteries, including dairy (whey is dairy). And you can't possibly get all the vitamins and minerals you need from today's food, must take multivitamins.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

afraid said:


> I watched the movies "forks over knives" and "food matters", both pretty convincing. What i got out of it is that ALL animal protein is bad for your arteries, including dairy (whey is dairy). And you can't possibly get all the vitamins and minerals you need from today's food, must take multivitamins.


You are severely misinformed.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

afraid said:


> I watched the movies "forks over knives" and "food matters", both pretty convincing. What i got out of it is that ALL animal protein is bad for your arteries, including dairy (whey is dairy). And you can't possibly get all the vitamins and minerals you need from today's food, must take multivitamins.


I haven't seen Food Matters, but Forks Over Knives covers the animal protein part of your comment. They also say you can get all the sustenance you need from whole food plant based nutrition, no need for supplements except MAYBE B12.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

afraid said:


> What i got out of it is that ALL animal protein is bad for your arteries, including dairy (whey is dairy). And you can't possibly get all the vitamins and minerals you need from today's food, must take multivitamins.


How were cavemen able to survive on soy, TVP, and Centrum?


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

vuduvgn said:


> I haven't seen Food Matters, but Forks Over Knives covers the animal protein part of your comment.


And Forks Over Knives is so full of inaccurate and misleading statements it's scary.

An eloquent, yet detailed critique here: http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

Being a vegan is great, but people incorrectly think it makes you immune to disease and aging. Vegans still get heart disease, and they still get cancer, and they still die "young." Yes, it is a healthier lifestyle than most, but other environmental factors and genetics play an equal, if not more important role than diet.


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## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

^^Too true. I'm an "extremely picky eater" and even with my awesome diet I am at a high risk for heart problems because of genetics. I'm 27 and very active and have an exemplary diet and still have slightly high blood-pressure due to genetics.


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## Bill in Houston (Nov 26, 2011)

monzie said:


> ^^Too true. I'm an "extremely picky eater" and even with my awesome diet I am at a high risk for heart problems because of genetics. I'm 27 and very active and have an exemplary diet and still have slightly high blood-pressure due to genetics.


There was a guy my wife worked with who ran miles and miles each week. And he ate at least as well as an average person, probably better. He was the first guy in his family to live to be 50. He still had a heart attack in his 40s, but had enough interlacing of the arteries on his his heart that only a small portion of muscle died. Sometimes your genes just aren't in your favor.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

beanbag said:


> How were cavemen able to survive on soy, TVP, and Centrum?


Neanderthals life expectancy was just over 30 years old.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

vuduvgn said:


> Neanderthals life expectancy was just over 30 years old.


Yeah, but that had more to do with a lack of dentistry, or loosing their usefulness among their tribes, and i doubt many, if any, died from cancer, or heart disease.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

jtmartino said:


> And Forks Over Knives is so full of inaccurate and misleading statements it's scary.
> 
> An eloquent, yet detailed critique here: "Forks Over Knives": Is the Science Legit? (A Review and Critique) « Raw Food SOS
> 
> Being a vegan is great, but people incorrectly think it makes you immune to disease and aging. Vegans still get heart disease, and they still get cancer, and they still die "young." Yes, it is a healthier lifestyle than most, but other environmental factors and genetics play an equal, if not more important role than diet.


Link fight!
Here is a rebuttal of Denise Minger's critique of Forks Over Knives: Has Denise Minger Read 'The China Study'? -- A Collective Rebuttal - 30 Bananas a Day!

I'm vegan, I have a number of friends who are vegan and I don't know any vegans who think they are immune to disease or aging.

In the China Study (what inspired the movie Forks Over Knives) Campbell argues that though genetics do play a role in your health they are not the be all end all of your health. He goes on to say that genetics are a very popular refrain at this time in history and there is too much emphasis being put on them. 
I am not a geneticist or a doctor or a nutritionist, so I cannot deny or verify his claims.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

theMeat said:


> Yeah, but that had more to do with a lack of dentistry, or usefulness among their tribes, and i doubt many, if any, died from cancer, or heart disease.


I am not trying to imply their hunter gatherer diet did them in at an early age. They lived IN the food web and in a feudalist society and probably died very frequently from infections. Our society in safer (in general) nowadays and medicine has come a long way. We even know where babies come from these days. Science is cool.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I generally don't like to read link fights over observational studies because it just results in people picking apart a bunch of correlations and causations. Just show me some controlled clinical studies on the effects of certain foods on health. "You guys eat this. You guys eat that. You guys don't do anything different."

Maybe the chinese meat eaters were unhealthy coz all they ate were sweet & sour chicken, battered, fried, and drizzled with red cancer 40 sauce, lol. And maybe the folks who were too dirt poor to eat meat were also toiling in the fields all day.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

beanbag said:


> I generally don't like to read link fights over observational studies because it just results in people picking apart a bunch of correlations and causations. Just show me some controlled clinical studies on the effects of certain foods on health. "You guys eat this. You guys eat that. You guys don't do anything different."
> 
> Maybe the chinese meat eaters were unhealthy coz all they ate were sweet & sour chicken, battered, fried, and drizzled with red cancer 40 sauce, lol. And maybe the folks who were too dirt poor to eat meat were also toiling in the fields all day.


I agree with you about link fights. I did feel it important to do some defense though.

The China Study has a bunch of lab data relating cancer and sources of protein, all on rats. There are also a number of statistical analysis of different cultures and trying to find a link between diet and disease.

The China Study goes pretty far in depth as to the Chinese diets and lifestyles and how that relates to disease. It's a thick book, but worth a read. I listened to it on audiobook over about a month or two of commuting.

As far as diet and athletic performance goes I have not seen any good studies. There are a number of vegan and vegetarian elite athletes, but 1) I have not see any studies comparing athletic performance based on diet and 2) many of the elite vegan athletes (like Dave Zabriskie) were elite athletes and then went vegan. So, while Dave Z. continues to have great results, his athletic development was on an omnivore diet.

To be clear I don't swear on the China Study. It's a great book full of great information, but like anything else, there are holes and biases in it.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

vuduvgn said:


> Link fight!


I won't get too deep into it, but your rebuttal simultaneously tries to discredit Denise Minger's points while also discrediting the science behind The China Study. The point of me linking to Denise's article is that it's a fairly well-articulated rebuttal to something that a lot of people take as gospel, when in fact it's a documentary spin on a relatively ambiguous set of research.

And Campbell is right that people put too much of an emphasis on genetics. But that doesn't mean what I said was untrue. Genetics and environment play an equally (or more) important role in morbidity and mortality than diet. This simple fact is illustrated by the lifestyle choices of centenarians of the past 20 years.


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

Interesting that competative people willingly eat soy.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Why not. It's not like tofu is going to kill you.


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