# Night Riding Among Dangerous Animals?



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I was out in the dark before work this morning doing my trail monitoring duties. I laughed at a lazy racoon that made a half-hearted attempt to run away. They don't seem to fear me in the least. And even though I've been solo night riding for ~20 yrs., the thoughts of "what else is out here?" crept into my mind and got me thinking...

We don't have dangerous animals here. Sometimes an aggressive deer, or a rabid racoon or coyote, but there is not much threat from wildlife. Rarely, a young black bear will wander all the way from PA, and bobcats have been spotted even less.

But, the snow was pretty crunchy. Which probably means that most wildlife will be long gone by the time my lights sweep past.
...or maybe they are stalking me; knowing that they can sneak up within a few feet before I would know it.

So for those of you in bear/cougar/moose/snake/boar/alligator/cassowary/javelina/European hornet/rodent of unusual size/whatever country, do you just skip the night riding?

-F


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

There’s only two good options......

Pack heat. Gotta be small and easily accessible. Best to be stored in a top tube bag IMO

Next best thing is bear spray, not the little tiny pepper spray like women carry in their purse, but actual bear spray. Take the lid off of a water bottle and it’ll fit in there almost perfectly. Then you can carry it in your water cage mounted to the frame and you can grab it on the fly without stopping. Works flawlessly for me, especially good for mean dogs.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sir kayakalot said:


> There's only two good options......


There's at least one more good option, which is don't worry. The odds of injuring or killing yourself with a firearm is much higher than getting injured or killed by wildlife at night.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I've never carried anything, not even spray when I've been in close proximity to grizz. However, after 3 maulings and 2 fatalities (one right by my after work trails) in 2018 I did start to carry a knife on my shoulder strap for backcountry rides. Typically I don't give it a second thought. Might try packless this season so will likely forgo the knife. 

One thing that is becoming more concerning to me though is the exponential growth of the crackhead population. Crime including violent crime is WAY fukcing up around here. I spent a lot of time at trailheads in my van. This is beginning to give me pause which is really unfortunate. 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

The only animals I worry about are grizzly bears, and it’s a very real possibility I’ll see one where I ride. I’ve encountered many, many black bears and they’ve never been a problem. I always carry bear spray and use a timber bell and/or do a lot of yelling and talking when in their territory.


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## Donnie Prix (Jan 18, 2021)

I live in NE Pennsylvania and don't worry even a little bit. It sounds like we have similar predators and night stalkers.

Unless you're dumb and try to approach a black bear or especially bear cubs they wont bother you. 

I've lived here for over half my life (25 years) and have only ever seen one bobcat in the wild, unfortunately it was because I hit it with my truck.

You're far more likely to run into a mean dog. From experience, if you stand your ground and charge them if they charge you they will back down. I've never been bitten by an animal in my life wild or domesticated. 

I do like the bear mace idea though, maybe I've simply been lucky 😎


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I worry about rattlesnakes during night rides, mainly because you can't see as far out ahead as normal. It just motivates me to ride faster. If there's a big rattler soaking up heat on a rock in the middle of the trail, my goal is to get over it and out of the way before it notices and has time to react.


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## Wakamole (Jun 1, 2020)

The only option is to not worry. 1. Be blissfully ignorant of the threats. Odds are nothing bad will happen. 2. Get a gun, bear spray, knife, stick, stun gun, etc. It's your lucky charm. You are prepared (or so you think because you never train with your lucky charm on a regular basis) and you don't worry. 3. Train seriously in effective martial arts, learn how to really fight with your hands, knife, etc., until you are fully confident in your training - then keep on training as a way of life. Don't worry, you can probably handle anything that comes your way. 4. Your mind is your weapon. Carefully consider your decisions, become more situationally aware and always have a plan of action. Learn to trust your gut and act on your instincts. Don't worry - accept the unforeseen dangers knowing you've done your level best to mitigate them.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Rattlesnakes are my only worry. Mt Lions, Javelina, bears don't worry me.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Next best thing is bear spray, not the little tiny pepper spray like women carry in their purse, but actual bear spray. Take the lid off of a water bottle and it'll fit in there almost perfectly. Then you can carry it in your water cage mounted to the frame and you can grab it on the fly without stopping. Works flawlessly for me, especially good for mean dogs.


Going to try this, thanks for reminding me - the bears will be waking up from their nap not too long from now.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

We live in big cat country. They are regularly spotted on the trails all over the area. Occasionally there is a potential dangerous situation. 

Two cases in point: some people walking together with their dog on a leash were attacked by a mountain lion. It took hold of the dog and the people had to fight the cat off with large tree branches. The dog survived. On another occasion a rider with his dog were chased for at least 1/4 mile downhill by another big cat. He got away. Lucky for him and the dog, the trail was a fast downhill. 

Last summer the close into town trails were pretty packed with people trying to get some exercise away from other people. I rode increasingly further out and remote areas to get away from people. On one such ride I came across a fresh deer leg in the middle of the trail. I slowed see what it was and then immediately dropped the hammer to get away thinking whatever left it there could possibly still be around! A few hundred yards down the trail I came across another leg! Wow! I was near the bottom of that downhill section and had a pretty brutal climb out of that remote little valley. I absolutely hammered that uphill. It is a technical uphill too. I crushed it thinking whatever took those legs might come after mine! Yikes!

After that experience I rode with at least one other person--socially distanced on the trail by about 50-100 feet so we wouldn't breathe each other's vapor trail. Haha!

So yes, I am careful when I ride in the early morning or at dusk.

BTW, I live in Santa Fe, New Mexico.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

We've seen a little opossum on a night ride (they're nocturnal) but I think he was more scared of us 









We once spotted a beaver by the river during a night ride. He was eating apples that had fallen on the ground. He turned and walked away as we got closer. Glad he wasn't frothing


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## Ian Limburg (Oct 27, 2020)

I live in Colorado way up in the mountains. I often ride in Pikes National Forest directly behind my house. There are TONS of wild animals up here. As far as dangerous animals go, we've seen Mountain Lions, Black Bears, Coyotes (even a random Wolf from time to time), and Moose all on multiple occasions (not to mention the wolverine signs). Seeing that I'm a minor I cannot cary a firearm, if I could I probably would for my night rides just in case. But truth is I've never been bothered by any of these animals. They pretty much always just run away and are just as scared as we are. The only animal I have been bothered by was a dog that somebody had off leash. It started jumping up and biting at my legs, so as soon as it got in front of me I rammed it in the side with my front tire. He wasn't happy and decided to leave me alone. So I would say carrying something like bear spray or a firearm is probably wise but by no means necessary.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

It is kind of freaky riding at night, if I lived in an area populated with grizzlies I probably wouldn't do it.


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## Ian Limburg (Oct 27, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> It is kind of freaky riding at night, if I lived in an area populated with grizzlies I probably wouldn't do it.


 Yep, it gets nerve-racking. I always go with someone because going by yourself at night is freaky.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

No concern what so ever here in Virginia. Plenty of black bears but they're more like mellow stray dogs. Unless you get between mom and her cubs of course.

Far more likely to kill yourself with a gun than to actually need it defending yourself from wildlife on the East coast. If you're on the West coast concerned about Grizzly it better be a .50cal or you my as well not be carrying a firearm at all. Also requires lots of time dedicated to training on a regular basis to use effectively. Also expensive to buy the firearm and target practice ammo adds up very quickly. Bear mace is effective, cheap and easy to use.

Most effective way to minimize risk is choosing where you ride based on the time of day/night you're riding at.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Sir kayakalot said:


> There's only two good options......
> 
> Pack heat. Gotta be small and easily accessible. Best to be stored in a top tube bag IMO
> 
> Next best thing is bear spray, not the little tiny pepper spray like women carry in their purse, but actual bear spray. Take the lid off of a water bottle and it'll fit in there almost perfectly. Then you can carry it in your water cage mounted to the frame and you can grab it on the fly without stopping. Works flawlessly for me, especially good for mean dogs.


Those two are backwards, bear spray is more effective than a gun. And if it is going to be a gun, small and easy to put in a top tube is also wrong. If it isn't going to be at least a 45 with a decent length barrel, then what is the point? You are just making noise.

Regardless, the biggest threats are:
1. Hurting yourself (wrecking)
2. Other humans (I can out run them. If they get the drop on me, then a weapon is already worthless).
3. Animals that I won't know are there until it is too late (especially at night).

So my weapons stay home. And I ride night a lot, especially in the summer here in SoCal.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I live in the Tetons, we have it all. Biggest fear at night is more Moose than Grizzly, moose are goddamn invisible at night. I just assume that cats are watching me, I have encountered four in 25 years. Grizzlies are so terrifying I put them out of my mind at night (and generally ride ‘front country’ trails only at night.
Wolves are absolutely zero concern at all, they don’t want to have anything to do with us. 
Riding with guns is fantasy thinking, IMO, your chances of getting a clean shot at night are absurdly tiny. More likely you shoot yourself or a friend. Bear spray is mandatory.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Coyote and bobcat numbers near me have blown up these last two years and they have found rabies in both populations. I'm more concerned when I see them during daylight near the house than in the woods at night.


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## Wakamole (Jun 1, 2020)

When riding in Grizzly country, always ride with another person. Just make sure you're the faster rider.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> There's at least one more good option, which is don't worry. The odds of injuring or killing yourself with a firearm is much higher than getting injured or killed by wildlife at night.


I pack heat when in the country out of fear of the right-wing militants with their 2020 flags swaying in the breeze.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Fleas said:


> So for those of you in bear/cougar/moose/snake/boar/alligator/whatever country, do you just skip the night riding?


I've been in a few 24 hour races in which I've come across skunks on course in the middle of the night....yup. Either go faster or wait.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Fleas said:


> I was out in the dark before work this morning doing my trail monitoring duties. I laughed at a lazy racoon that made a half-hearted attempt to run away. They don't seem to fear me in the least. And even though I've been solo night riding for ~20 yrs., the thoughts of "what else is out here?" crept into my mind and got me thinking...
> 
> We don't have dangerous animals here. Sometimes an aggressive deer, or a rabid racoon or coyote, but there is not much threat from wildlife. Rarely, a young black bear will wander all the way from PA, and bobcats have been spotted even less.
> 
> ...


No, if we didn't ride at night, we wouldn't be able to ride much at all.

Generally, wildlife doesn't want anything to do with you.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Unless you are the one that runs into the bear. 
Then your slower friend can live stream what happens next.


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

Donnie Prix said:


> I live in NE Pennsylvania and don't worry even a little bit. It sounds like we have similar predators and night stalkers.
> 
> Unless you're dumb and try to approach a black bear or especially bear cubs they wont bother you.
> 
> ...


No squonks to worry about?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I fear no wildlife, for I am the wildlife whisperer.

Unless of course Grizzly Bears.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I fear no wildlife, for I am the wildlife whisperer.
> 
> Unless of course Grizzly Bears.


I don't fear the wildlife either. I have taken many pics and videos of bears I've encountered while riding. If I see a rattlesnake on a ride, I can't just pass on by. I have to catch it. Have to. Then release it unharmed. Please don't question that or even try to understand it, I certainly don't expect you to lol. The two things I fear the most on rides, especially gravel rides, is pit bulls and their owners.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Sir kayakalot said:


> I don't fear the wildlife either. I have taken many pics and videos of bears I've encountered while riding. If I see a rattlesnake on a ride, I can't just pass on by. I have to catch it. Have to. Then release it unharmed. Please don't question that or even try to understand it, I certainly don't expect you to lol. The two things I fear the most on rides, especially gravel rides, is pit bulls and their owners.


I understand and and have the same fascination with snakes. I once had a pet rattlesnake when I was a young man. Lived with two other guys in a big house. The snake was in a 10 gallon aquarium and well camouflaged with its surroundings. We set it on a couch end table. So many people would sit on that couch and eventually look over in wonder of what was in there. So many rattles and strikes on the glass the glass was blurred with venom running down it. Young guys do stupid things.


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## b1k35c13nt15t (Mar 20, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> There's at least one more good option, which is don't worry. The odds of injuring or killing yourself with a firearm is much higher than getting injured or killed by wildlife at night.


Agreed. I have large predators in my hood, but I really only worry about moose. Those are typically easy to deal with. Ride with a jingle bell to alert animals and then give them wide berth When encountered.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

beastmaster said:


> On one such ride I came across a fresh deer leg in the middle of the trail. I slowed see what it was and then immediately dropped the hammer to get away thinking whatever left it there could possibly still be around! A few hundred yards down the trail I came across another leg! Wow! I was near the bottom of that downhill section and had a pretty brutal climb out of that remote little valley. I absolutely hammered that uphill. It is a technical uphill too. I crushed it thinking whatever took those legs might come after mine! Yikes!


Maybe it was your trainer?

Also, I wouldn't worry riding with 2 trained ferrets. Those things are dang clever!

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

cookieMonster said:


> The only animals I worry about are grizzly bears, and it's a very real possibility I'll see one where I ride. I've encountered many, many black bears and they've never been a problem. I always carry bear spray and use a timber bell and/or do a lot of yelling and talking when in their territory.


I'm sure you've heard this before, but do you know how to tell the difference between black bear and grizzly bear poop? Grizzly bear poop has bells in it.....


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Sir kayakalot said:


> There's only two good options......
> 
> Pack heat. Gotta be small and easily accessible. Best to be stored in a top tube bag IMO
> 
> Next best thing is bear spray, not the little tiny pepper spray like women carry in their purse, but actual bear spray. Take the lid off of a water bottle and it'll fit in there almost perfectly. Then you can carry it in your water cage mounted to the frame and you can grab it on the fly without stopping. Works flawlessly for me, especially good for mean dogs.


It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to have no problem with shooting a bunch of rounds at an animal attacking a person, like you are 50 feet away and animal and person are in a tussle. Are you really going to send a bunch of rounds downrange and hope that you don't hit the human?

If you are packing heat, it needs to be appropriate to the game you intend to be taking down. If it's a bear, you need significant penetration to do something like crush a bone and stop it (as it charges) or get to a vital organ. They have much thicker bones/hide/sinew and it takes significant power and penetration. A "small" firearm usually doesn't cut it and for those animals that are small enough to be dealt with a 9mm or .45, you probably don't need a firearm anyway. It does need to be accessible, like you say, such as in a chest-holster. Other locations are going to be a waste of time or separate you from the firearm if you get knocked off the bike by a charging bear, which does happen.

A firearm is generally a better solution if you are solo a long ways from civilization, only accessible by airplane, no trails around, etc. The lack of trails makes travel difficult and animals generally travel much easier, so when a bear starts stalking you, even from a ways away, you can get into a "jam" much easier. Even then, it's good to have multiple options.

For all of us that ride on trails in Alaska, it's generally bear spray, because it's very effective, and we can "help" someone else out on the trail that gets attacked. Same rule applies, it needs to be accessible, on your body is the best and there are several solutions for this, generally not on your bike. Once you get used to riding with it, it's not a big deal. Also good to practice with it.

I had to us the bear spray on a moose once, got cornered on a trail and it charged. It worked. Works on animals and humans. Had a crazy methed-out guy go at me with a long sharpened stick on one of our paved greenbelt trails last year. I whipped the bear spray out fast and had it at the ready. Crazy guy didn't pursue after that. Called the cops at a safe distance for the other users of the path.


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## DoctorJD (Jan 15, 2004)

I guess I'm lucky down here in middle Georgia. I've seen coyotes, whitetail deer, raccoons, armadillos, venomous snakes, but that's about it. The coyotes are very timid, and it's rare that you see them, the biggest danger from the above list is when you jump a deer and it makes you sh*t yourself. I've been hearing reports of black bears in the area, and I saw evidence of wild hogs on our ride last night, but I don't think I would consider either a legitimate threat to my life.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Didn't Picard already cover this topic?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I have bear spray that I start carrying on rides around this time of year. usually the bears in the area run off. but the closest riding area to my house has some bears that are pretty standoffish towards people. and it also happens to be a relatively busy recreation area. lots of folks get charged by mama when she's being ornery in the springtime and has a cub or a few nearby.

there's a couple that make the rounds through my neighborhood, too. but they've been pretty averse to people.

haven't needed to use it, even though I've seen those bears often enough. it's just one of those CYA things for the most part.

agree that there's generally a greater concern with other people and dogs, though. we do have a few venomous snakes in the area that are worth knowing about. big timber rattlers and copperheads. the rattlers are big enough that people usually see/avoid them. the copperheads are the bigger bite risk around here, and at that, usually when the little ones show up later in the summer/fall because they're a bit more bitey than the adults.

I've been in mtn lion country a little bit (and have seen a few in the wild, including in the dark), and I don't think I'd be night riding solo in mtn lion country. prob the same in grizz country, though I've not spent any time in those parts.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

mack_turtle said:


> Didn't Picard already cover this topic?


I'm afraid of marauding sock puppets at night as well, they are EVERYWHERE.
And there is no defense.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

Here in Montana, during bike season it doesn't get dark until 9 or 10 o'clock. 8pm toward the end of the season. So I've never really felt the need to ride in the dark. During the part of the year when the sun sets by 5pm, it's too cold and our trails too snowy for me to bother riding at all.

A friend of mine was mauled by a grizzly while riding two years ago and my neighbor got mauled while hunting a while before that. We're also hearing reports of grizzlies ranging farther from their historic ranges and into places I used to not worry about seeing them. I'm carrying bear spray and not riding solo more and more lately.

I won't get into the gun vs spray debate as folks who have an opinion on that seem to be unswayable. But that guy posting on page 1 that he carries a knife for defense against bears? Good luck with that.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> Rattlesnakes are my only worry. Mt Lions, Javelina, bears don't worry me.


They're easy to bunny hop. You just don't want to be the third person to hit one.

Javelina's have chased me more than anything else.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Jayem said:


> It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to have no problem with shooting a bunch of rounds at an animal attacking a person, like you are 50 feet away and animal and person are in a tussle. Are you really going to send a bunch of rounds downrange and hope that you don't hit the human?
> 
> If you are packing heat, it needs to be appropriate to the game you intend to be taking down. If it's a bear, you need significant penetration to do something like crush a bone and stop it (as it charges) or get to a vital organ. They have much thicker bones/hide/sinew and it takes significant power and penetration. A "small" firearm usually doesn't cut it and for those animals that are small enough to be dealt with a 9mm or .45, you probably don't need a firearm anyway. It does need to be accessible, like you say, such as in a chest-holster. Other locations are going to be a waste of time or separate you from the firearm if you get knocked off the bike by a charging bear, which does happen.
> 
> ...


I'm assuming that you are directing this at me since you quoted my post.
A little bit dramatic today aren't you? I never said any Tom, Dick or Harry should carry a gun on every ride and whip it out and start firing bullets at something 50' away. If you are in remote country, all alone esp., and you are confident, competent, and well trained with a firearm, it can definitely save your life. Beats going hand to hand with something way bigger and stronger than you. Sure, most mountain bikers won't face those problems because most ride in areas where other people are present and danger is less likely. When I leave my house on the bike, a lot of times I'll ride 8-10 miles before I even see another vehicle or person. If my wife is doing a 20 mile ride alone from home, you can bet that she will have some form of protection. These are crazy times and there are crazy people out there. And if you are stupid enough to unload a firearm at an animal attacking a human 50' away, god help us. A 40 caliber pistol will do some damage, more than my hands could ever do in battle, and is small enough to carry if you think you need too. Will it kill or stop a grizzly, not very quickly, but it beats nothing. The OP asked if you just skip night riding. I offered two options to protect yourself. I didn't say I carry when I ride. But if I do a gravel ride I almost always have bear spray. It has saved me more than once from bad dogs, and I'm not talking about just a barking dog that came trotting towards me. I'm talking about dogs that were on a mission to attack. It is a good idea to protect yourself in certain areas.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

If you're not spending hours on a range, regularly. You're going to probably panic.

That's about all I'll say.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

dysfunction said:


> Javelina's have chased me more than anything else.


I came around a turn in the Picketpost area and almost hit the biggest javelina I have ever seen. I'm pretty sure I freaked him out just as much as he freaked me out, because he ran off squealing.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

Look I carry daily, but not while I ride. I have put my carry pistol in my Camelback for long off the beaten path rides, but thats for animals of the two legged breed. I'm all for carrying if you want.

However @dysfunction nailed it. I'd also like anyone who thinks they can pull a gun out and stop a lion, bear, or moose, to look up the 21 foot rule. Then think how that applies to humans, and how much faster animals are.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I came around a turn in the Picketpost area and almost hit the biggest javelina I have ever seen. I'm pretty sure I freaked him out just as much as he freaked me out, because he ran off squealing.


I've seen more Javelina while ridding then I have ever when I'm hunting them.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

I was on a ride one day midafternoon ,riding a local park (East Bay area) and saw a man and girl looking up the hill at something ,ask what ,they said mountain lion .I look and yep there it was laying in the grass 100 yards away. A few months later I was riding down a trail near there , and what I assume was the same cat bounded across the trail in front of me. Same park I was attacked by a off leash dog.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I feel pretty fortunate that we really only have creepy crawlies here in the desert. I rode Salida area this past summer and saw the biggest mountain lion I have ever seen in my entire life wandering the side of the highway up on top of Monarch Pass. Kind of freaked me out and I was glad I had a buddy with me to do the whole Monarch ride. Big cats are terrifying.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> I've seen more Javelina while ridding then I have ever when I'm hunting them.


Next time you go hunting, try dragging your bike out into the bush with you... maybe its your good luck charm lol


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> I've seen more Javelina while ridding then I have ever when I'm hunting them.


They're hiding in my front yard. Trying to get into my trash, and laughing at my dogs. (the bobcat and coyotes seem to fear the dogs, but the peccaries? Not one bit.. blind, stupid, and mean they can be  )


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

2sharp7 said:


> I'm sure you've heard this before, but do you know how to tell the difference between black bear and grizzly bear poop? Grizzly bear poop has bells in it.....


Yes, I've heard that one.?

I understand where that joke came from; trains of inexperienced wilderness explorers traveling in groups and all wearing bear bells. The irony is that their incessant talking is what's really alerting the bears.

I use a Timberbell mostly to alert other trail users I'm in the area. Since most of my riding is done alone (and quite a lot of it in griz habitat), I use the bell there as well because the #1 cause of grizzlies mauling humans is that the human surprised the bear. People talking in groups is actually a great deterrent. But when I'm alone, I feel a little safer making some noise, as bikes are pretty much silent for all intents and purposes.


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## FatMike1912 (May 28, 2018)

I ride in the Canadian Rockies and it’s pretty common that most people around here carry bear spray. Some trail centres mandate you carry bear spray. I have a “bear cozy” in my bottle cage for it. We don’t worry about wildlife but you need to be aware. When I ride alone, I make a lot of noise esp when going downhill. 

We still do lots of night riding in the shoulder season. Just make lots of noise.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Scariest things in my woods, besides walkers - who leave sticks lying across the trails...

Are wild boar.

These many of them about and they often dig up trails.

I think I've heard them close by a couple of times out on solo rides.

I use to work in the forestry many moons ago... one day a wild boar chased me up my ladder 

A possum had a crack at my left foot/shoe/pedal one night ride.

Silly thing ran out onto the trail as I was running downhill.

His little legs couldn't keep him ahead and out of the way.

I ran over his tail and it tried to maul my right lower leg.

Luckily I was near the top of the up stroke.

If I'd been at the bottom, he would've got some flesh.

Sent from my HD1900 using Tapatalk


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## planetx88 (Mar 24, 2012)

I was almost killed this year by a chipmunk. Riding a fastish downhill and it scared the crap out of me jumping across the trail right in front of me from a downed tree roughly at bar height. In Vermont we dont have a culture of riding with bells, spray, etc, or shouting (usually). We worry more about getting nailed by hunters in the fall. We dont have the seriously scary critters like the grizz, but all the same i think the data shows "attacks" usually happen when an animal is surprised when some strange wheel beast comes flying up on them while they are minding thier own business. That scenario happens all the time in VT, and It seems we could use some of that "western" practice of making yourself known. I've hooted and hollered a few times, autumn in particular when I know I'm probably invading the bears' space, but thats rare for me. Only encounter ive had was acutally in western mass right outside northampton at a resevoir that is a popular dog walking spot. Young male bear that was a good size stood up from behind a big stump when I was only ~15 ft away. He was just as surprised as me. I did exactly the wrong thing, turned and hammered the pedals for a while. No idea if he gave chase.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Don't worry about it. I do a lot of rides in the middle of the night in our local mtns....often solo. Mtn lions are our alpha predator here. In 20 years, I've seen 2.....and heard 3 others. 

I'll continued just riding along. Hopefully I'll get another sighting.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

mtnbikej said:


> Don't worry about it. I do a lot of rides in the middle of the night in our local mtns....often solo. Mtn lions are our alpha predator here. In 20 years, I've seen 2.....and heard 3 others.
> 
> I'll continued just riding along. Hopefully I'll get another sighting.


I haven't seen more than a handful either. Mostly on road rides, I think because it's quieter and earlier in the morning.


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

Really the only thing that "scares" me in my area are rattlesnake encounters. It's never been a big deal but just always startles the heck out of you at first. Usually one or two a year on average, but I wonder how many I ride right past that never rattle a warning? I'm honestly not afraid of a mountain lion encounter, not that I'd want to have to find out, but I'd like my chances. Riding at night I mostly don't think of those things, but must admit that it does add a little bit of excitement to the ride. Don't think I'd be riding grizz country at night though!!


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## 2sharp7 (Aug 29, 2013)

cookieMonster said:


> Yes, I've heard that one.?
> 
> I understand where that joke came from; trains of inexperienced wilderness explorers traveling in groups and all wearing bear bells. The irony is that their incessant talking is what's really alerting the bears.
> 
> I use a Timberbell mostly to alert other trail users I'm in the area. Since most of my riding is done alone (and quite a lot of it in griz habitat), I use the bell there as well because the #1 cause of grizzlies mauling humans is that the human surprised the bear. People talking in groups is actually a great deterrent. But when I'm alone, I feel a little safer making some noise, as bikes are pretty much silent for all intents and purposes.


I also use a Timberbell, great product! It's mostly to alert hikers and other bikers, but I have to say since getting my new bike last year with Onyx hubs, I'm glad I have it and use it anytime I'm going to be going fast to hopefully prevent on trail collisions with deer! I've had about 2-3 near misses when not having the Timberbell in the on position.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Sir kayakalot said:


> These are crazy times and there are crazy people out there. And if you are stupid enough to unload a firearm at an animal attacking a human 50' away, god help us. A 40 caliber pistol will do some damage, more than my hands could ever do in battle, and is small enough to carry if you think you need too. Will it kill or stop a grizzly, not very quickly, but it beats nothing.


Does it beat a can of bear spray? No, the bear spray has a much higher chance of working. I just don't understand the logic. Why are you going to lug around an insufficient caliber when you could bring gear that might actually be helpful in a survival situation, like extra food, saw, fire-starter, etc. The list would go on and on before something like a "gun for wildlife". Hitting a moving target like a charging bear is going to be one of the hardest things to do with a pistol. People think you can engage someone or something at hundreds of feet away with a pistol, based on hollywood, but it's just not so. Yes, I know how to use firearms, but I just don't understand the logic of "beats nothing", I mean, really, it doesn't, since you could use that same weight to carry something useful, rather than "nothing".

I guess I see the possible use of this being so infinitesimally small, hoping for that "lucky shot" with an insufficient caliber, in a situation that doesn't endanger other people, like your buddy being overran/charged, that you might as well be bringing all sorts of other gear for all sorts of other exceptionally rare and unlikely situations. It just doesn't hold up. If you feel you need a 9mm or .40 for humans in an area you feel is dangerous due to that threat, that'd be a totally different conversation.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Now that I've seen some responses, I think "situational awareness" is what I'm more worried about. Just the wind in my ears, or tires crunching on snow or rocks... and the fact that I can't see past my little bubble of light.

I can't even guess how many times I've stopped, just to stop and enjoy my nightly surroundings, and seen eyes a very short way off. Sometimes that's _really_ cool, but I'm sure I've passed a thousand things that I'm glad I never saw.

-F


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I have never felt threatened on a night ride, but it can get spooky. I have crossed many of the mentioned critters at night, but never any that seemed aggressive. I have come across feral hogs on several occasions, and once (at night) had a pack of them running about 30-50 feet off of my side going in the same direction. That was a bit of an adrenaline charge. Once I had an owl ride just within my sphere of light about 10 feet off of my shoulder flying along side me at a pretty fast clip. That was super cool. The owl stayed with me about 15 or perhaps 20 seconds that seemed much longer.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

dir-T said:


> But that guy posting on page 1 that he carries a knife for defense against bears? Good luck with that.


Me? I'm in the PNW so was talking cats. For Grizzlies I carry a wrist rocket and jelly beans.

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Jayem said:


> Does it beat a can of bear spray? No, the bear spray has a much higher chance of working. I just don't understand the logic. Why are you going to lug around an insufficient caliber when you could bring gear that might actually be helpful in a survival situation, like extra food, saw, fire-starter, etc. The list would go on and on before something like a "gun for wildlife". Hitting a moving target like a charging bear is going to be one of the hardest things to do with a pistol. People think you can engage someone or something at hundreds of feet away with a pistol, based on hollywood, but it's just not so. Yes, I know how to use firearms, but I just don't understand the logic of "beats nothing", I mean, really, it doesn't, since you could use that same weight to carry something useful, rather than "nothing".
> 
> I guess I see the possible use of this being so infinitesimally small, hoping for that "lucky shot" with an insufficient caliber, in a situation that doesn't endanger other people, like your buddy being overran/charged, that you might as well be bringing all sorts of other gear for all sorts of other exceptionally rare and unlikely situations. It just doesn't hold up. If you feel you need a 9mm or .40 for humans in an area you feel is dangerous due to that threat, that'd be a totally different conversation.


I've already said I'm not scared of the bears and snakes. I have never carried a pistol in bear country. I always carry the bear spray for that.









How close do you think I was to snap pics of this bear? Yes he's just a black bear, but still it can be un-nerving when you are close enough to hear them breathing. 


















I've never carried a pistol on a bike for snakes either. And I have caught many Rattlesnakes and never killed one.



















But if I'm in crackhead and pitbull country, I want something more potent than just bear spray.


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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

We have rattlesnakes, bobcats, deer, possum, black bears, squirrels, coyotes. I'm more likely to die from a mosquito bite or bee sting than a land animal. Timber rattlers are actually quite docile, they just want to be left alone. My main worry is stray dogs, drunk drivers, and weirdos. Staying off the roads really keeps the stress of night riding down, usually on the trails it's only me, or me and my dog. If I ever carry it will be because some of the ******** here like to drive around drunk road trippin', and they might take exception to some "***" riding with lycra shorts.

My neighbor's dog was killed by another dog that ran into the street after it, so I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a dog doing that either, if I carried.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

There are a fair number of cougar & bear sightings along the trails where I ride and generally I don't let it affect me. There is one trail though which I am a bit cautious on because there is big and obvious signs that a cougar lives pretty close to the trail. I've seen some big, obvious claw marks 7-9 feet up a several trees next to the trail, and recently a deer haunch left right in the middle of the trail.

Still ride there at night, just never solo.

Animals—dangerous or not—are rarely interested in attacking people. The rare cougar and bear attacks generally involve sick/ starving animals, or bear cubs.

Carrying a gun with you on a ride sounds like one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard of. About the only time I considered it was around one of the spots where the ®edneck/ hobo trash camps near a trail, not for animals. I might carry pepper spray, but not for bears or cougars, for dogs owned by stupid ®ednecks who don't keep them contained/ trained. Usually around the afore mentioned ®edneck hobo camps.

* Can't believe MTBR filters ®edneck


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## GeePhroh (Jan 13, 2004)

I'd only carry a firearm to shoot my ride-buddy and his Timberbell.


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

I've surprised both a bear (Mcloed river trail) and a lion (Cache Creek Ridge trail). The bear false charged and ran off - scared the living heck out of me. The lion went into stalk mode and I ended up lifting the bike and charging it - it also ran off. The best answer I have is a timber bell, much beloved of this forum, and a can of bear spray in a pants pocket. A second tool is a boat horn for bears which we keep in the camper. It has worked twice with habituated bears. Lastly, I've read that a very bright flashlight can blind a critter and cause it to run away, get temporarily blinded, or very very pissed off.


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## djlee (Feb 5, 2009)

The most dangerous animal for night riding is a spouse.
I'm single, by the way...


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Fleas said:


> Now that I've seen some responses, I think "situational awareness" is what I'm more worried about. Just the wind in my ears, or tires crunching on snow or rocks... and the fact that I can't see past my little bubble of light.
> 
> I can't even guess how many times I've stopped, just to stop and enjoy my nightly surroundings, and seen eyes a very short way off. Sometimes that's _really_ cool, but I'm sure I've passed a thousand things that I'm glad I never saw.
> 
> -F


The spookiness can make it feel like a much more rewarding ride. I worked night shift for a few years and consistently went road cycling on summer nights riding Skyline Drive on my nights off. The road stays along the top of the blue ridge mountains through Shenandoah National Park so there's tons of wildlife. One ride was immediately after a pretty bad summer thunderstorm which made this one a bit extra spooky with lightning in the distance, wet roads, and downed tree branches everywhere. On the way down one mild hill a huge owl swooped down right over my head from behind and scared the sh!t out of me! It couldn't have been more than 3ft above my head and I swear it's wingspan was the entire width of the road. That was a wonderful ride in some refreshingly cool temps with the most satisfying nature sounds on the stops I took.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

WHALENARD said:


> Me? I'm in the PNW so was talking cats. For Grizzlies I carry a wrist rocket and jelly beans.
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


For grizzlies, I like to carry water balloons. It helps to simmer down their ill temperament.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I've almost been scared to death by grouse suddenly flushing in front of me.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I always carry a large-caliber pistol with me while riding. Is for wildlife? No. People? No.

It's for when my bike sends me over the bars. Once I get up from the crash, I point that sucker right at the headtube and let my bike know to never try that again...


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Live in cougar and black bear country. Ride at night once a week. No concerns. Be bright and loud. But you do got to watch out for the skunks. Those little bastards have got no respect or fear. Will hog the trail for meters and meters before, maybe, deciding to get off it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Structure said:


> Live in cougar and black bear country. Ride at night once a week. No concerns. Be bright and loud. But you do got to watch out for the skunks. Those little bastards have got no respect or fear. Will hog the trail for meters and meters before, maybe, deciding to get off it.


I chase them... it takes a few seconds for them to get prepped to blast you so long as you keep on their tail they won't stop. And yeah, the bastards are trail hogs. I've damned near run over a couple of them trying to "encourage" them to step aside.

There was that one time my buddy following me got a little side-blast, but nothing that prevented his wife from letting him come home.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Perhaps, or at least several cans.

In general, I don't find riding at night to be "scary", a few animal encounters do come as a surprise though, a moose just standing still next to the trail instead of on, you don't realize it until you nearly touch it while passing, but some of the encounters are pretty cool, like a porky-pine waddling down the trail or those little white ferret things we have here, forget the name. Every once an owl, etc. Don't see the bears too much at night, as most of the night riding is in the winter when the bears are asleep, except they are very "light" hibernators that tend to wake up and roam about a bit in the winter every once and a while. That's exceptionally rare and I would expect them to not be in a good condition for a fight, but keeping the bear spray on your person can still be a good idea. 

I came upon a wolf high above the city a few years back, came around a turn on a trail and just a hundred feet in front was a "big wolf-looking dog". I wondered where the owner was. Then I realized, it wasn't a wolf-looking dog, it was a wolf. Pretty cool to see.

Wolves will often trail people out in the wilderness, generally not attacking or anything like that, but you'll hear them in the distance. Camping out at night can be a little scarier IMO, depending on where you are. I had to set up an electric fence in Kamai park.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Curveball said:


> I've almost been scared to death by grouse suddenly flushing in front of me.


That's no joke.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

I'd like to change my answer to snakes - ran into a couple locals and they said the bears pretty much run away, so NBD. But apparently we have Eastern diamondback rattlers, copperheads and cottonmouths aplenty where I just rode today. Also, I don't think I could actually ride a lot of those trails at night even if I wanted to. Maybe I should just send Sir kayakalot out ahead to make sure the coast is clear.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Practice catching coachwhips and black snakes. When you get fast enough to catch those without getting bit, move up to copperheads. Copperheads are like the black bear. They can kill you, but probably won’t. Then when you’re confident in your skills, move up to the rattlesnake. They are like the grizzly bear. There is no room for error here. And then you got the water moccasin. Don’t fudge with them at all. Those bastards aren’t even safe to release after catching. They are so fast. Like lightning fast, when they strike. You can’t beat their speed. Only do it with super thick gloves or use a stick to put behind their head and then grab em. Not much challenge in that though but definitely safer. The scariest thing? I have taught my son to NEVER mess with poisonous snakes. But he got the same gene from me I guess, because he just can’t stay away from them either. It terrifies me when he catches them.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

I live in Missoula MT, there are too many possibilities of running into an animal at night for me. This fall a Grizzly walked right through an area biked regularly, the tracks in the snow crosses bike tracks. The bear most likely walked through at night and there was a suggestion by the FWP to not hike or bike at night which has been a popular activity. 
I carry spray with me just in case I run into any animal that may want to **** me up. My biggest concern is running into a Moose. I once was charged by one and it forever changed my outlook in them. Bear and lions don’t worry me as much as Moose. Most likely though I’ll come around a corner and plow right into a deer, they are everywhere and just don’t move away.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Practice catching coachwhips and black snakes. When you get fast enough to catch those without getting bit, move up to copperheads. Copperheads are like the black bear. They can kill you, but probably won't. Then when you're confident in your skills, move up to the rattlesnake. They are like the grizzly bear. There is no room for error here. And then you got the water moccasin. Don't fudge with them at all. Those bastards aren't even safe to release after catching. They are so fast. Like lightning fast, when they strike. You can't beat their speed. Only do it with super thick gloves or use a stick to put behind their head and then grab em. Not much challenge in that though but definitely safer. The scariest thing? I have taught my son to NEVER mess with poisonous snakes. But he got the same gene from me I guess, because he just can't stay away from them either. It terrifies me when he catches them.


This is the most common reason for people to end up in an emergency room for a snake bite. Also it unnecessarily stresses the animal.

I get it though.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> This is the most common reason for people to end up in an emergency room for a snake bite. Also it unnecessarily stresses the animal.
> 
> I get it though.


I agree with you. I'm not condoning or encouraging it. But it is a rush. Kinda like riding a bike downhill.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

beastmaster said:


> We live in big cat country. They are regularly spotted on the trails all over the area. Occasionally there is a potential dangerous situation.
> 
> Two cases in point: some people walking together with their dog on a leash were attacked by a mountain lion. It took hold of the dog and the people had to fight the cat off with large tree branches. The dog survived. On another occasion a rider with his dog were chased for at least 1/4 mile downhill by another big cat. He got away. Lucky for him and the dog, the trail was a fast downhill.
> 
> ...


I've seen your legs, you have nothing to worry about.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I agree bear spray would be more effective and practical than a pistol. Any pistol that will be considered "enough gun" for a bear or other large or dangerous game will be very heavy and unwieldy and will likely be of a caliber that will produce so much power the recoil will be nearly unmanageable to shoot through a pistol. Those guns are out there, but I've never understood why, except for the novelty of them, because guns are like bikes... you can never have enough.

If you're thinking about bringing enough gun, you should really be looking at a 12 gauge with 00 buck or slug ammo, and obviously, that's not very practical riding around on a bike.

Still, I can remember a conversation I had on the range once with a friend of mine who was shooting his .32 caliber pistol. He let me shoot a mag through it, and when I handed it back to him, he smiled and laughed and said "Most people give me crap for owning this, but I can keep it in my pocket, and I wouldn't want to get shot with one!"

As has been said, any gun is better than no gun, to a point at least. I just learned Richard Ramirez shot a guy in the head with a .25 auto and the guy got out of bed and chased him out of the house, but I digress.

Will a .45 drop a grizzly? Most likely not. If you somehow manage to pump several rounds into one after you've been attacked, might it then decide you aren't worth the hassle? Well, I'd like to think they'd go somewhere else to spend their time, but who knows? I guess for some folks the old saying that they'd rather have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it applies, and there are some psychological benefits to packing heat you wouldn't get if you went without, but as most have already said, bear spray makes way more sense.

What I see as an unfair bias or assumption that some people easily make is the one about being more likely to kill yourself with the gun. Statistically speaking, yes that's correct and I agree with the statement, but it's not so black and white. Just because a person has a gun doesn't automatically mean they are irresponsible and know nothing about how to use it. There are people in the world who at one point or another have done their own reloading and put 5000 rounds through each one of their firearms every year because shooting guns and hunting, like mountain biking, are passions they enjoy, and if you're going to carry firearms, you need to know how to use them.

And then I think about how many 16 year olds get driver's licenses and keys to vehicles every year who represent way more danger to the general population than a guy carrying a pistol on his bike, and I kind of shake my head.

For what it's worth, I don't carry a pistol when I go bike riding, but I've thought many times that I should.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

I live in mtn lion country and don’t let that worry me about day riding but definitely don’t night ride solo. Then again I never soloed at night in tamer woods either, not for fear of animals, but for not wanting to get stranded on an empty trail overnight, especially in hypothermia weather. Plus if your light unexpectedly died on you in the woods solo that would suck no matter where you are. But for that you could at least pack a spare headlamp.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Zguitar71 said:


> I live in Missoula MT, there are too many possibilities of running into an animal at night for me. This fall a Grizzly walked right through an area biked regularly, the tracks in the snow crosses bike tracks. The bear most likely walked through at night and there was a suggestion by the FWP to not hike or bike at night which has been a popular activity.
> I carry spray with me just in case I run into any animal that may want to **** me up. My biggest concern is running into a Moose. I once was charged by one and it forever changed my outlook in them. Bear and lions don't worry me as much as Moose. Most likely though I'll come around a corner and plow right into a deer, they are everywhere and just don't move away.


Yeah, I'm thinking of not doing this. It's a pretty remote area and spotty cell reception at best. It took me 2.5 hours one way and I only saw one other group of people the whole time (ok, it was turtle speed, but they're all black rated trails) . By the time I got out...if I got out...no bueno.


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## Z71-K9 (Oct 22, 2010)

Im more concerned with 2-legged predators as opposed to 4-legged ones. The 2-legged ones are way more dangerous than any lion or bear. Hence I am prepared.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Z71-K9 said:


> Im more concerned with 2-legged predators as opposed to 4-legged ones. The 2-legged ones are way more dangerous than any lion or bear. Hence I am prepared.


I'm with you bro, bigfoot is for real.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm with you bro, bigfoot is for real.


What if he meant big bird?

Though I have been buzzed by a bat once. That was a little freaky.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

noapathy said:


> What if he meant big bird?


Dude, Cassowaries will fukc you up!

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> There's at least one more good option, which is don't worry. The odds of injuring or killing yourself with a firearm is much higher than getting injured or killed by wildlife at night.


This. I'm in mountain lion country but figure I'll never see it common. So far I been able to get past snakes without being bit. I don't slow down if I'm going fast. Black bears usually run away. Javelinas are not afraid but I've never been charged. I'm afraid of meth heads, moose and grizzlies but none around here.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Ride at night? 
My mother in law goes out at night and she is fkn scary.


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## urmb (Oct 4, 2005)

Cougar?


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## urmb (Oct 4, 2005)

Scat belt is a great way to carry bear spray (Scat Belt Bear Spray Belt). Have always wondered if a hungry bear (black in my area) who has just hatched from hibernating would be more aggressive. Anyone have intel on this?


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## Whippa (Feb 15, 2021)

WHALENARD said:


> Dude, Cassowaries will fukc you up!
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


They sure will. Like fully unzip ya bowels. Here down under we have wild dogs...and pigs.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

WHALENARD said:


> Dude, Cassowaries will fukc you up!


Whoa, googled those guys - glad we don't have 'em around here.


PierreR said:


> Ride at night?
> My mother in law goes out at night and she is fkn scary.





urmb said:


> Cougar?


Are these meant to be together? 😂


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Monty219 said:


> I live in mtn lion country and don't let that worry me about day riding but definitely don't night ride solo. Then again I never soloed at night in tamer woods either, not for fear of animals, but for not wanting to get stranded on an empty trail overnight, especially in hypothermia weather. Plus if your light unexpectedly died on you in the woods solo that would suck no matter where you are. But for that you could at least pack a spare headlamp.


I did have an instance where my main light failed AND my backup light failed (all my fault...). It was country dark out there and I could not see my hand in front of my face. All I could do was feel the trail as I walked my way out. It took me 2 hours to find an exit, and I ended up all scratched up from thorns and briars along the trail. But again, not a lot of threats in those woods.

On another occasion, I was deer hunting on the ground and in my spot I got comfortable and put my light away to await the sunrise. I could hear at least 2 large animals running very fast through the woods and heading straight for me. I could hear the feet pounding into the ground and loud breathing/panting. I pretty much pointed my 12 ga out into the darkness and waited for whatever it was to run into the muzzle. It turned out to be a buck chasing a doe and they ran right past me at full speed. Of course, I never saw them. I sure could smell them, tho.

-F


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## L. Ron Hoover (Feb 1, 2006)

Curveball said:


> I've almost been scared to death by grouse suddenly flushing in front of me.


This happened to me on a high speed DH trail (in the daytime) with a ptarmigan (same thing or close, i think) except when it took off it flew right in front of me and I hit and killed it.

I also very nearly hit a bear cub on A-Line once.



Jayem said:


> Perhaps, or at least several cans.
> 
> In general, I don't find riding at night to be "scary", a few animal encounters do come as a surprise though, a moose just standing still next to the trail instead of on, you don't realize it until you nearly touch it while passing, but some of the encounters are pretty cool, like a porky-pine waddling down the trail or those little white ferret things we have here, forget the name. Every once an owl, etc. Don't see the bears too much at night, as most of the night riding is in the winter when the bears are asleep, except they are very "light" hibernators that tend to wake up and roam about a bit in the winter every once and a while. That's exceptionally rare and I would expect them to not be in a good condition for a fight, but keeping the bear spray on your person can still be a good idea.
> 
> ...


I don't find night riding scary either and would generally be more wary of humans than animals. Luckily, there doesn't seem to be much human activity around our trail systems at night except for mountain bikers.

We don't usually have bears on this part of the island so the only animals we have that really concern me are moose. I've had a couple of close encounters, never been charged or anything, but coming face to face with a cow and two calves at a trail intersection one night last fall could have gone poorly. Luckily there were 2 options so I booked it down the trail they weren't on and didn't stick around to see if the momma would charge me or not. Despite their somewhat goofy appearance, moose are fast and can be aggressive. They're also huge. Not to be trifled with. People in places that don't have them seem to think that they are slightly larger than deer... Um, nope.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Sitting in a duck blind, not really paying attention, when a bunch of Teal do a flyby of your spread... That will make you jump out of your skin. It seems impossible, but the sound they make is very similar to a jet engine roaring by, and like how a train on the tracks can sneak up on you, you don't hear a thing until they're right in front of you.

I had an owl fly up and light on a branch next to me in the pre-dawn blackness sitting in a deer stand once. It was a horrible commotion out of nowhere, like nothing I had ever heard, so I had no idea what to make of it, and of course, not being able to see anything helped me freak out. When I heard it start to hoot, I was very relieved.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Jayem said:


> It never ceases to amaze me that people seem to have no problem with shooting a bunch of rounds at an animal attacking a person, like you are 50 feet away and animal and person are in a tussle. Are you really going to send a bunch of rounds downrange and hope that you don't hit the human?


You ain't takin' away my guns, son!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Someone earlier mentioned dogs. Though not at night, some of our gravel rides in the deep county include the navigation of unleashed and angry dogs. Uphill, they are a challenge. Flats and downhills, not as much, but it can be harrowing if they get near you.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Dude, Cassowaries will fukc you up!


Ever wonder why there is a New Guinea but no Old Guinea?

Cassowaries


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Crankout said:


> Someone earlier mentioned dogs. Though not at night, some of our gravel rides in the deep county include the navigation of unleashed and angry dogs. Uphill, they are a challenge. Flats and downhills, not as much, but it can be harrowing if they get near you.


Just ran into this a couple weeks ago, fortunately they didn't bug me much on the climb but charged out on the DH so just kept the pace up and dropped them.

Owners who can't control dogs give dogs a bad name.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Crankout said:


> Someone earlier mentioned dogs. Though not at night, some of our gravel rides in the deep county include the navigation of unleashed and angry dogs. Uphill, they are a challenge. Flats and downhills, not as much, but it can be harrowing if they get near you.


That's also why bear spray. Dogs can move so fast, especially at close range, that shooting would be much more problematic, but spray can cover a wide area pretty fast. It "gets in the air" too, so even without a direct hit it's probably going to buy you some good distance to start with.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

L. Ron Hoover said:


> We don't usually have bears on this part of the island so the only animals we have that really concern me are moose. I've had a couple of close encounters, never been charged or anything, but coming face to face with a cow and two calves at a trail intersection one night last fall could have gone poorly. Luckily there were 2 options so I booked it down the trail they weren't on and didn't stick around to see if the momma would charge me or not. Despite their somewhat goofy appearance, moose are fast and can be aggressive. They're also huge. Not to be trifled with. People in places that don't have them seem to think that they are slightly larger than deer... Um, nope.


Moose are the biggest hazard around here. They are huge, they are territorial and they have absolutely no fear of humans. That means if you come up on one on a trail, it will not move off. If you get closer, make noise, jump up and down, then it's likely to get aggressive and charge you. They also like to use the trails as, well, trails. Several people get mauled each year around here due to Moose. There are certain parts of the year that are more dangerous, but really, it's all the time, winter and summer. We had someone get trampled just last week, might have been the same moose I saw when I went out on a hike that day, it was very irate, trying to navigate through a big XC ski park, where there are skiers constantly making loops on trails. It was already charging some people and then we heard that someone got trampled that night about a mile or two away from there. In general, the bears want nothing to do with you and the black bears, the most common ones on the trails, are pretty skittish. They are generally easily avoided, but Moose are generally far more dangerous around here.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Yea, I do not like being anywhere near elk or moose, even deer.. especially anytime around the rut. Come to think of it, the absolute closest I came to animal related injury were two muleies crossing the trail, as I rode between them.


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## Lou_D (Feb 25, 2013)

Fleas said:


> I was out in the dark before work this morning doing my trail monitoring duties. I laughed at a lazy racoon that made a half-hearted attempt to run away. They don't seem to fear me in the least. And even though I've been solo night riding for ~20 yrs., the thoughts of "what else is out here?" crept into my mind and got me thinking...
> 
> We don't have dangerous animals here. Sometimes an aggressive deer, or a rabid racoon or coyote, but there is not much threat from wildlife. Rarely, a young black bear will wander all the way from PA, and bobcats have been spotted even less.
> 
> ...


Not night riding for me too many mountain lions here. I live off of what used to be Fort Ord and that is where I mostly ride. We have frequent Mountain Lion sightings. Had a bear spotted nearby last year but they are rare.


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## Yomoe (Nov 7, 2020)

Just remember with all of this...you only need to be faster then the slowest rider


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I should probably be afraid sleeping out in the backcountry I guess?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Jayem said:


> Moose are the biggest hazard around here. They are huge, they are territorial and they have absolutely no fear of humans.


Many years ago I experienced a non-event with a moose in Maine. I looked up ahead on the trail and a large female was crossing the trail and came to a complete stop and just stood there looking at me. I had stopped about 100 feet away and was trying to think fast, but fortunately, she moved on after maybe 10 seconds. I understood the potential threat and there was rise in blood pressure. But, it was uneventful.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Just because I have time today, and I like facts, I looked a few things up.

The most recent data I could find about causes of death are from the National Safety Council back in 2018, and they listed no lifetime odds of dying from a wild animal attack. They did, however, list the odds of dying from a dog attack at 1 in 118,776, so as many have mentioned here, you need to worry about dogs more than wild game. To put that into context, those odds are between dying from a lightning strike (1 in 180,746) and bee/wasp/hornet stings (1 in 53,989), and how many people have you heard of that have gone those ways?

The biggest killer (these are all US stats by the way) is heart disease, which has a 1 in 6 chance, but I don't see people ranting and raving about needing to shut down fast food joints and getting people to stop sitting on their butts. We, as a culture, pig out, so heart disease makes sense, and by extension, choking on food has a 1 in 2,618 chance of taking you out.

"Pedestrian accident" has a 1 in 541 chance, so the old saying "You take a risk just stepping outside your house" is pretty appropriate.

Perhaps the most relevant to the issue of gun safety are these stats:

Accidental gun discharge: 1 in 9,077
Riding a bike: 1 in 4,060
Sunstroke: 1 in 7,770

So any of us are more than twice as likely to die just by being on our bikes than we are from accidentally shooting ourselves or being accidentally shot by someone else while trying to fend off an animal attack. If the bike doesn't get you before a gun does, just getting too hot will.

Most profound are these stats:

Gun assault: 1 in 298
Car crash: 1 in 106

You are three times as likely to die in a vehicle than you are by being shot by someone else on purpose. For all the clamor and derogatory statements about the safety of guns, the issue really pales in comparison to how dangerous automobiles are, but no one ever mentions that. Maybe it's because almost all of us in this country have cars and use them on a daily basis. Maybe we are choosing to ignore the facts simply because it makes us feel less threatened? I don't know what it is, but guns are nowhere near as dangerous as going to work, or to the grocery store, or to your friend's house, or to a movie... you get my point.

And if you didn't make the connection, you are essentially three and a half times more likely to die while just eating food than you are from being accidentally shot by yourself or anyone else, in whatever scenario. We eat food several times a day, every day, over the entire course of our lives. How often are any of us involved in any type of shooting?

I don't see any sense in making the sort of statements that guns are more likely to injure you than something else. When you think about how lethal firearms are, and consider how less likely you are to be killed by them than something as innocuous as chewing food, the logic just doesn't hold any water.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I don't see any sense in making the sort of statements that guns are more likely to injure you than something else.


But guns are more likely to injure you than other things, several that you mentioned. Another one would be getting injured by a wild javelina while riding a bicycle at night.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> But guns are more likely to injure you than other things, several that you mentioned. Another one would be getting injured by a wild javelina while riding a bicycle at night.


With a moose.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

While riding a moose.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Rhinos. Don't taunt them.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> But guns are more likely to injure you than other things, several that you mentioned.


Well, yes, if we can infer that rates of injury parallel rates of death in the statistics I gave, then you are more likely to be injured by a gun than you are by a dog, but I don't think it's that black and white.

In my own lifetime, I have been bitten by a dog twice, and I know of two other people who have been bitten by dogs. I only know one person who has been shot. It's an extremely limited sample size, but in my experience, dog bites are four times as likely to occur than gunshot wounds.

Looking at the wasp or bee stings, if we assume injury statistics mirror and parallel deaths, can we then draw the conclusion that you'll be shot more often than you will be stung by a wasp or bee? It doesn't make any sense. How many times in our lives have we been stung by a wasp or a bee? How many times have we been shot by a firearm? Multiply that across the entire population and you'll see what I'm talking about.

While I tried to find statistics regarding injuries and not deaths, I couldn't find any, and I don't think we can draw a straight correlation between rates of death and rates of injury for the causes mentioned above. Common sense would suggest being bitten by a dog or getting stung by a bee or a wasp is far more likely to occur than being shot accidentally, but I'll easily admit I could be wrong.

All this talk of dangerous game... If any of you enjoy reading very good books, you should look into Peter Hathaway Capstick. His books, Death In The Long Grass, Death In Silent Places, and Death In The Dark Continent are amazing accounts of a big game hunter, guide, and game control officer dealing with lions, jaguars, rhino, elephants, and all other sorts of nasty creatures that can kill you. His writing style is at times factual and documentarian, pulling from his own experiences over the years, but he also maintains a sharp wit and a healthy humor that will captivate you. Seriously, how many people can make you laugh while recounting a story of having been gored by a rhino?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Reading through many of these posts. Sorry, for I am still the wildlife whisperer. 
Although I do applaud many a posters interactions with said dangerous creatures among us. No one is as close to being a wildlife whisperer as I until you’ve experienced the rogue squirrel. Seriously!


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I just found data published by the UC Davis School of Medicine that said there are roughly 115,000 non lethal gun injuries in the US per year.

I also found data from the American Animal Hospital Association that stated there are roughly 5 million dog bites per year in the US.

I don't think statements like this



J.B. Weld said:


> The odds of injuring or killing yourself with a firearm is much higher than getting injured or killed by wildlife at night.


are anywhere remotely accurate.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> .....are anywhere remotely accurate.


Pets- wildlife. Know the difference.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I just found data published by the UC Davis School of Medicine that said there are roughly 115,000 non lethal gun injuries in the US per year.
> 
> I also found data from the American Animal Hospital Association that stated there are roughly 5 million dog bites per year in the US.
> 
> ...


Take away the gangbangers making music videos of themselves dancing with their finger wrapped around the trigger of their pistols and the number drops down to about 1000 per year


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Antelopes can, but cantaloupes can't


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm gonna load up some guns and go for a drive while pigging out with my dog! It's suicide, man! 

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> Pets- wildlife. Know the difference.


You may be making a valid point there, especially considering most firearm deaths in this country, more than 60% of them in fact, are suicides. But I don't think you were really speaking to intentional self harm in specific terms when you made that initial statement. You were talking about accidentally harming yourself in a wildlife encounter scenario that was perceived to be dangerous enough to one's life or limb to then necessitate the use of a firearm.

That's a very rare and specific thing, and by its nature, a very difficult thing for anyone to have statistics on.

I don't know that any of us can accurately draw a definitive conclusion about what would really happen in that situation, and like my old grand daddy used to say, "The less a man makes declarative statements, the less apt he is to seem foolish in retrospect", so I won't make any declarative statements as if I knew what the outcomes would be.

I would imagine though, that if an animal did pose a threat, and actually engaged in a dangerous attack against a human who had a firearm, who did, in fact, see the attack unfolding, as has been stated in what was referred to as the 21 foot rule, you're most likely not going to be able to draw your weapon and do anything with it at all. The animal will probably injure you before you can injure the animal. A man who is at the end of your hallway with a knife can stab you before you can draw your firearm and shoot him, so I guess the animal injury would be more likely than the firearm injury to one's own body.

And I would consider as well that in the dark, which is what the original question was about, the animals would have a far greater advantage if they wanted to inflict harm on us. They could lay in wait and launch a proper ambush without us even knowing about their presence in the first place and we would be unable to launch a defense, but maybe I'm forgetting the original question, and perhaps it was specifically framed in such a way to ask about being able to see the threatening and dangerous animal as it was launching an attack. In that scenario, as I've already said, I have no idea what the outcome would be.

Perhaps it's a different discussion all together, but I still feel guns get a bad rap from people who don't fully understand them and I don't think they are as dangerous as people make them out to be.


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## rekmeyata (Jan 25, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I worry about rattlesnakes during night rides, mainly because you can't see as far out ahead as normal. It just motivates me to ride faster. If there's a big rattler soaking up heat on a rock in the middle of the trail, my goal is to get over it and out of the way before it notices and has time to react.


When I use to live in California I would ride the mountain back roads on my road bike, and rattlers would be out on the pavement heating themselves up. Going up a steep grade and finding one of these things I would just give them a wide berth and avoid them, but when I would be coming back down a grade I could be doing 50 plus MPH, suddenly a rattler would be there, I couldn't just swerve around them so I ran over them! I don't think I killed them, but I know they didn't like it, but I was moving too fast for them to try to strike me.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Fleas said:


> I can't even guess how many times I've stopped, just to stop and enjoy my nightly surroundings, and seen eyes a very short way off. Sometimes that's _really_ cool, but I'm sure I've passed a thousand things that I'm glad I never saw.


Bigger animals that are worth fearing -- cats, wolves, bears, moose -- are _usually_ so harassed by humans that they want nothing to do with us. Because they don't stare at screens or have earbuds in all day, they're still capable of seeing and hearing us long before we sense them. And then, 99.9% of the time, they are _gone_.

In that rare event where you startle one that didn't hear you coming, things can go either way. But the animal is virtually always looking for a way to get the hell out of there.

In those instances where you startle an animal at close range and it reacts defensively, you're very, very, very unlikely to have any success with a weapon, because the situation will be over -- for better or worse-- long before you have the chance to even think about the weapon. Much less lay hands on it.

Sure, you might get the chance to shoot a bear in the ass as it runs away after reflexively mauling you for barging into its' space unannounced. That says more about you than the bear.

Bear spray works -- on more than bears -- and especially if both you and your partner are carrying. Solo it's got pretty low probability.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Curveball said:


> I've almost been scared to death by grouse suddenly flushing in front of me.


Same. And Ptarmigan in winter, on snow, on a flat light day, are impossible to see until they're under your front tire. And then they startle the bejeebus out of you, flying just far enough ahead to do it again moments after you've forgotten about them...


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

I live and ride in mountain lion country (Santa Cruz), and I only ride at night with slower people. 

Seriously though, I think first off get educated about the wildlife of concern. For instance, with mountain lions a gun would be pretty useless. They predate by surprise, so, might as well just enjoy life while you have it. 😂


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Just because I have time today, and I like facts, I looked a few things up.
> 
> The most recent data I could find about causes of death are from the National Safety Council back in 2018, and they listed no lifetime odds of dying from a wild animal attack. They did, however, list the odds of dying from a dog attack at 1 in 118,776, so as many have mentioned here, you need to worry about dogs more than wild game. To put that into context, those odds are between dying from a lightning strike (1 in 180,746) and bee/wasp/hornet stings (1 in 53,989), and how many people have you heard of that have gone those ways?
> 
> ...


100% of statistics are inaccurate, which itself is a statistic. For example almost everyone drives almost everyday. Relative to car owners, gun ownership is a pretty small percentage. Of that small percentage an even smaller amount actually carry. Even smaller still is the amount of gun owners who actually practice with their firearm on a weekly basis. Comparing the odds of dieing in a car which most people use daily to the odds of dieing from accidental discharge in which people rarely have on them is practically impossible. With that being said it entirely depends on where the data is coming from. It is possible to get a fairly accurate statistic but it's more likely to be wrong whether that's deliberately or not.

If you aren't carrying a firearm then you have 0% chance of dieing from an accidental discharge of your own firearm. If you don't go mountain biking then you have 0% of dieing from it. All accidents have multiple elements that allow them to happen. If you want to be safer the best thing to do is minimize the amount of things that can possibly go wrong. If you don't want to be attacked by an animal you need to take into consideration which animals are there in that location, what are the odds of being attacked and at what times am I most likely going to be attacked by one?

Not carrying a firearm while mountain biking is a good start at removing a dangerous variable and you'd need a pretty significant potential threat to sway it in the other direction. If the threat is significant enough to need personal protection now you need to weigh how effective a pistol is going to be in any of the expected scenarios you might get into. If you don't train yourself in those scenarios you're chances of a firearm being effective is incredibly low. Especially if it involves riding a bicycle with one hand, on a bumpy trail, drawing a firearm and trying to aim with any sort of accuracy at a moving target while you're also moving yourself.

I've practiced a lot of scenarios but none with riding a bike. Taking into account the potential effectiveness of a firearm for any given situation and any potential threat for where I live keeping a firearm simply wasn't practical to the point I let my concealed carry permit expire. Obviously a firearm can be excellent for self defense but it didn't make sense for me.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

mikesee said:


> ...
> 
> In those instances where you startle an animal at close range and it reacts defensively, you're very, very, very unlikely to have any success with a weapon, because the situation will be over -- for better or worse-- long before you have the chance to even think about the weapon. Much less lay hands on it.
> 
> ...


Maybe there is a market for the exploding pepper spray vest or collar.
Sure, you'd get sprayed too, but it would likely deter any animal from continuing an attack. ...maybe.

-F


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> 100% of statistics are inaccurate, which itself is a statistic.


I'm a distrusting, or at least a critical thinking individual by nature; I don't just listen to what someone says. I take any statistic with a grain of salt, because most statistics are stated with a slant depending on the agenda of the person stating them. However, the ones that I quoted are derived by taking the number of people who died in a certain manner from a certain cause and comparing that to the entire population, taking into consideration the average expected lifespan in this country. There's not much inaccuracy or slant there, it's just factual.

I don't think the comparison between accidental gun discharge and automobile accident deaths is impossible. It's very possible with death certificate data available to data crunchers. It's just a question of math. Did the guys who comprise the data pour over every single death certificate in the country in the year 2018? I don't know. None of us know. I would assume though, in the interest of scientific accuracy that they did their objective best to compile the data. While looking for information on injuries and death, I continued to see this organization's information quoted by other reputable sources, so I assume it's a trusted set of information.

What doesn't get taken into consideration, and this might be what you mean if I understand correctly, are the specific circumstances that fall within the heading of accidental gun discharge or car wreck. Did someone get shot because they were standing next to the person who was intended to be shot, or was a person being an absolute moron cleaning a firearm without unloading it first? Did someone who died in an automobile accident drive way too fast for the conditions and sail off the side of a mountain, or were they sitting still at a red light and someone crossed an intersection and hit them head-on?

We can't tell how many people died from accidental gun discharge while riding a mountain bike trying to hit a moving animal while pedaling away from it. That's entirely too specific. We can only make our best inferences from the data given that classifies number of deaths as accidental from gun discharge.

It is impossible to tell with the statistics given what the specific scenarios were, but it is absolutely possible to tell how likely you are to die from accidental gun discharge versus automobile accidents.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm going to get me a b-b gun. In case I run into a swarm of bees at night.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I'm a distrusting, or at least a critical thinking individual by nature; I don't just listen to what someone says. I take any statistic with a grain of salt, because most statistics are stated with a slant depending on the agenda of the person stating them. However, the ones that I quoted are derived by taking the number of people who died in a certain manner from a certain cause and comparing that to the entire population, taking into consideration the average expected lifespan in this country. There's not much inaccuracy or slant there, it's just factual.
> 
> I don't think the comparison between accidental gun discharge and automobile accident deaths is impossible. It's very possible with death certificate data available to data crunchers. It's just a question of math. Did the guys who comprise the data pour over every single death certificate in the country in the year 2018? I don't know. None of us know. I would assume though, in the interest of scientific accuracy that they did their objective best to compile the data. While looking for information on injuries and death, I continued to see this organization's information quoted by other reputable sources, so I assume it's a trusted set of information.
> 
> ...


My first paragraph was saying you can't compare statistics to an entire population unless the entire population engauges in that activity. Most people drive but only a very small percentage carry a firearm. If comparing these two amongst the entire population it's completely inaccurate. If comparing the odds of dieing from accidental discharge amongst people who carry vs the odds of dieing in a car crash amongst people who drive then you'd have a more accurate comparison. Of course there's still be issues like a discharge killing someone else or a driver killing a pedestrian.

Carrying a firearm while biking now puts you at risk of being killed by said firearm. You now just increased your risk of something happening. Unless the risk of a threat outweighs the risk of carrying a firearm you just increased your odds of injury or death rather than decreasing them.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> My first paragraph was saying you can't compare statistics to an entire population unless the entire population engauges in that activity.


It's been some time since I took statistics in college, and I may be wrong, but I don't think statistics work that way.

A little-known, but entirely frightening statistic, especially for people who aren't in monogamous relationships, is that 1 in 4 people have herpes. Now, as you have stated, if you are not sexually active and will never be, you're never going to get herpes. You could be molested or raped, but besides that, statistically speaking there is still a 1 in 4 chance anyone can have herpes. Whether or not you're sexually active doesn't enter into the statistic. The statistic takes a body of a population and applies the occurrence to it.

If you are not sexually active, you will not get herpes, and you have insulated yourself from that statistic. If you don't carry a firearm while on a bicycle, you won't die from an accidental gun discharge while on your bicycle, and you have insulated yourself from that statistic.

However, and I guess when people say "statistically speaking", they're actually saying "for argument's sake", according to the data, there is a greater likelihood anyone will die from an automobile accident than anyone will after injuring themselves with a firearm.

Miksee said it most succinctly when he said a thing can go two ways. Can any of us hold a coin in our hand and predict the outcome of a flip? Absolutely not.

To say you are more likely to injure or kill yourself because you have a gun on your person than being injured by a wild animal is not accurate. First, it assumes you can predict the future, and second, it ignores all the data compiled that suggests otherwise.

Even simply taking anecdotal evidence into consideration, this thread has many people who have chimed in to say they themselves have been charged by animals, or they know of people who have had situations with animals. No one in this thread has said anything about how often they've shot themselves while carrying a firearm.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

KobayashiMaru said:


> It's been some time since I took statistics in college, and I may be wrong, but I don't think statistics work that way.
> 
> A little-known, but entirely frightening statistic, especially for people who aren't in monogamous relationships, is that 1 in 4 people have herpes. Now, as you have stated, if you are not sexually active and will never be, you're never going to get herpes. You could be molested or raped, but besides that, statistically speaking there is still a 1 in 4 chance anyone can have herpes. Whether or not you're sexually active doesn't enter into the statistic. The statistic takes a body of a population and applies the occurrence to it.
> 
> If you are not sexually active, you will not get herpes, and you have insulated yourself from that statistic.


This thread just officially got too weird for me.

I'm out.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Can any of us hold a coin in our hand and predict the outcome of a flip? Absolutely not.


Heads I win, Tails you lose. Predictable outcome.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Jayem said:


> That's also why bear spray. Dogs can move so fast, especially at close range, that shooting would be much more problematic, but spray can cover a wide area pretty fast. It "gets in the air" too, so even without a direct hit it's probably going to buy you some good distance to start with.


There are times that I can honestly say I'm frightened. The whole notion of standing down and using my bike as a shield does not inspire confidence.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> It's been some time since I took statistics in college, and I may be wrong, but I don't think statistics work that way.
> 
> A little-known, but entirely frightening statistic, especially for people who aren't in monogamous relationships, is that 1 in 4 people have herpes. Now, as you have stated, if you are not sexually active and will never be, you're never going to get herpes. You could be molested or raped, but besides that, statistically speaking there is still a 1 in 4 chance anyone can have herpes. Whether or not you're sexually active doesn't enter into the statistic. The statistic takes a body of a population and applies the occurrence to it.
> 
> ...


I guess all I'm trying to say here is statistics don't have a practical application for this. While packing heat responsibility is "safe" that doesn't mean it will be helpful in an attack and you still added something else to the scienario that could actually hurt you. Statistics don't take this into account. No one can predict the future of course but we'll all just playing the odds. If you add anything potentially dangerous then you increased your odds of injury or death even though it might be useful in other applications. As with many things it heavily depends on how you do it.

The more effective option is use bear mace or best option yet is find a way to remove yourself from the situation all together. There's nothing wrong with some calculated risk either.

Sorry OP, didn't mean to derail things!


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Enough with the statistics discussion. As we all know, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. I can make a statistical analysis prove almost anything I want. Let's get back to the original topic, dangerous animals at night.
Dragons. Dragons really freak me out at night. You can't see them at night and they only come out at night. They swoop down on you and try to snatch you up with their pointy claws. They're out there, I know they're out there.
I do the same thing when a dragon is after me that I'd do if I ran into a bear or mountain lion on the trail....ride like he$# and scream like a little girl. Maybe that's why my buddies won't ride with me at night. Dragons...they are freaky, and maybe my screaming too.

​


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## rustie (Apr 21, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> There's at least one more good option, which is don't worry. The odds of injuring or killing yourself with a firearm is much higher than getting injured or killed by wildlife at night.


If you're the kind of person who would use a weapon irresponsibly, then yes, please leave it alone and trust to luck. Animals need to eat too.........


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## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

L. Ron Hoover said:


> This happened to me on a high speed DH trail (in the daytime) with a ptarmigan (same thing or close, i think) except when it took off it flew right in front of me and I hit and killed it.
> 
> I also very nearly hit a bear cub on A-Line once.
> 
> ...


Cows are under appreciated as a threat. There have been many injuries from aggressive cows including this one at a place I ride in the summer when the central valley is too hot to even exist:









Two evacuated by helicopter after hostile cow attack


A California Highway Police helicopter rescued an elderly couple who were injured Sunday...




www.sfgate.com


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

In general, I've never experienced any issues with cattle, but one can usually expect the unexpected from a mom and her offspring. Red Flags.


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

Sir kayakalot said:


> There's only two good options......
> 
> Pack heat. Gotta be small and easily accessible. Best to be stored in a top tube bag IMO
> 
> Next best thing is bear spray, not the little tiny pepper spray like women carry in their purse, but actual bear spray. Take the lid off of a water bottle and it'll fit in there almost perfectly. Then you can carry it in your water cage mounted to the frame and you can grab it on the fly without stopping. Works flawlessly for me, especially good for mean dogs.


I carry in a Hill People Gear chest pack. It's worth it's weight in gold. Hill People Gear | Real use gear for backcountry travelers For road riding, it is easier to conceal in bibs rather than shorts.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

rebel1916 said:


> I carry in a Hill People Gear chest pack. It's worth it's weight in gold. Hill People Gear | Real use gear for backcountry travelers For road riding, it is easier to conceal in bibs rather than shorts.


If you run into an irate animal that gun carried in your chest pack won't do you any good though. You wouldn't be able to it before the pissed of creature on four legs does.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Cows are vicious when they carry e-coli. What kind of shot is good for bacteria?

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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

WHALENARD said:


> Cows are vicious when they carry e-coli. What kind of shot is good for bacteria?
> 
> Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


Tequila


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Lol

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

rustie said:


> If you're the kind of person who would use a weapon irresponsibly, then yes, please leave it alone and trust to luck. Animals need to eat too.........


You have to look at the thread model.

How many mountain bikers are killed each year by mountain lions or bears? Or any predator?

You might as well be worried about getting struck by lightning.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

Having been attacked by a pack of wild dogs while biking I carry a "bear Cozy". I Got it afterwards and have never used it. But I carry it hiking. I have also been chased by a mountain lion but I was out getting the trash can one afternoon at my house. I also got the practice can you you can test it without exposing yourself or your neighbor to bear spray.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Ogre said:


> You might as well be worried about getting struck by lightning.


That is a legitimate concern actually....


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Crankout said:


> That is a legitimate concern actually....


We've hustled down off of ridge lines more than once out of that concern. But there's not much else you can do about it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Crankout said:


> That is a legitimate concern actually....


Sure, but anytime conditions are bad enough for lightning I'm already busy hustling to get back to the car or somewhere sheltered.


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

Zguitar71 said:


> If you run into an irate animal that gun carried in your chest pack won't do you any good though. You wouldn't be able to it before the pissed of creature on four legs does.


It's designed as a holster. I can draw about as quick as I can with my duty holster, and much faster than I could from a bag that I have to unzip and won't necessarily hold the piece in the exact right position.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I carry lightning spray. Got some from Batman. 

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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

This makes me laugh, but what if it'd been dark outside? This guy would have been in a world of hurt.





-F


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Probably easier to just ride a road bike then


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

dysfunction said:


> Probably easier to just ride a road bike then


Animals are one of my biggest fears while riding a road bike. Hitting a deer or getting a squirrel wrapped up in your front wheel while bombing down a mountain pass @ 45 mph could be game over.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

After reading through this thread i have concluded that my sense of self preservation may be underdeveloped.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Animals are one of my biggest fears while riding a road bike. Hitting a deer or getting a squirrel wrapped up in your front wheel while bombing down a mountain pass @ 45 mph could be game over.


That's actually the whole reason my avatar is a peccary. I had more than a few near misses in a couple month period a while ago. Now, I just like it.

Maybe rollers?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Not a pleasant scene...


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Just picturing someone trying to get their gun out in time to deal with this:


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Ogre said:


> Just picturing someone trying to get their gun out in time to deal with this:


There was no time to spray it either though. No time to do much of anything really. 
I'd wager they saw them running their way but didn't figure he'd be smack on the X-Y axis when they did.

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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

I don't think either one of them knew what happened.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Crankout said:


> That is a legitimate concern actually....


Our trails are generally in dense forest and so I don't worry too much about getting struck directly as much as a nearby tree getting it and blowing up.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Curveball said:


> Our trails are generally in dense forest and so I don't worry too much about getting struck directly as much as a nearby tree getting it and blowing up.


Now that is indeed some scary stuff. One of our trail crew regulars had a large branch fall right onto his front tire while riding, he was 1/4 second from being crushed.

Also, at MBO, the truck hauling all the bikes was struck by a falling tree, shattering the front windshield.

Not that I worry overmuch about either, but falling trees are way higher on my list of worries than cougars.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ogre said:


> Now that is indeed some scary stuff. One of our trail crew regulars had a large branch fall right onto his front tire while riding, he was 1/4 second from being crushed.
> 
> Also, at MBO, the truck hauling all the bikes was struck by a falling tree, shattering the front windshield.
> 
> Not that I worry overmuch about either, but falling trees are way higher on my list of worries than cougars.


Yeah, that's why I don't ride during windstorms. All those trees that have been cut from the trail fell for a reason and I'd hate to be there when it happened. A definite risk in this area.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

Curveball said:


> Yeah, that's why I don't ride during windstorms. All those trees that have been cut from the trail fell for a reason and I'd hate to be there when it happened. A definite risk in this area.


I was starting a ride and heard a crack and a Ponderosa fell and almost hit a truck. On the other side of the truck was a group of people hanging out after a ride. What was scary is that no one had time to react.

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

DrDon said:


> I was starting a ride and heard a crack and a Ponderosa fell and almost hit a truck. On the other side of the truck was a group of people hanging out after a ride. What was scary is that no one had time to react.


I'm sure if one of them had a proper holster they could have dealt with it.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

J.B. Weld said:


> Animals are one of my biggest fears while riding a road bike. Hitting a deer or getting a squirrel wrapped up in your front wheel while bombing down a mountain pass @ 45 mph could be game over.


My wife and me were hiking some trails in a national park. Crossed a road at the base of a 4 mile downhill that goes through the park to find a shaken up and bloody road cyclist on the side of the road. She hit a deer at a pretty good pace, probably about 30mph. The worst part is the road was closed due to a bunch of blow downs. She has to call rangers to come pick her up.

I've gone all out down that hill in a super tuck and got to 55mph. Deer are always a big risk there but honestly the sight lines are pretty good. Not so much at night though.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Carrying a gun is not dangerous if you follow a few simple rules. I've fired thousands of rounds both as a Marine and a civilian shooter and have never had an accidental discharge but I never think it can't happen to me so I follow the rules.

I carry bear spray because as discussed, any gun big enough to kill a bear is impractical to carry because of the weight and the point is not to kill the bear but to discourage it. I carry a gun more for human predators but only in a few places. I do a lot of "urban" mountain biking in Flint, Michigan and have never felt the need to carry a gun. I just can't see getting in a situation where it would be practical and most people are pretty friendly. I carry a gun in the wilderness areas of my native Louisiana and when I'm out West near the Mexican border (my wife is from Sierra Vista, Arizona) and those of you who don't think there is a problem there with drug smugglers, desperate illegal aliens and "coyotes" are blinded by political correctness. 

People who are anti-gun always create scenarios where a gun will be useless or ineffective. But something doesn't have to be perfectly effective all the time to be useful or nice to have. Most reasonable people, for example, who conceal carry know that their gun is a sort of "last ditch" option when every other measure has failed. 

You can look up the statistics but if you consider responsible gun owners to be the ones who have taken concealed carry classes and carry legally, their incidence of accidents or unjustified shootings are statistically insignificant. Being from Louisiana, a very pro-gun state, everybody I know has an arsenal of firearms, everything from target pistols to machine guns, and I don't know anybody who has ever had an accident because we use some common sense...and follow the rules. 

Some people know in their hearts that they don't have the mindset to shoot anybody, even if they are being attacked, which is fair. Some people rely on their very small odds of getting into a situation where carrying a gun is necessary so they don't bother.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd much rather hit a deer or an animal with mass than have a small animal take out my front tire at mach chicken. At least I think that to be the case. 

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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> Animals are one of my biggest fears while riding a road bike. Hitting a deer or getting a squirrel wrapped up in your front wheel while bombing down a mountain pass @ 45 mph could be game over.


You're not kidding. We've had close calls with deer....


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Ailuropoda said:


> Carrying a gun is not dangerous if you follow a few simple rules. I've fired thousands of rounds both as a Marine and a civilian shooter and have never had an accidental discharge but I never think it can't happen to me so I follow the rules.


It's impossible to know whether the person you are meeting is a paranoid idiot or trained and competent. When my buddy ran his business and handled large sums of cash, packing made sense. When you are at the trailhead and your biggest threat is getting hit by a tree branch or Bambie, you just look like the afore mentioned paranoid idiot to me.

If someone shows up with a gun to a ride, I don't invite them back.


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

Ogre said:


> It's impossible to know whether the person you are meeting is a paranoid idiot or trained and competent. When my buddy ran his business and handled large sums of cash, packing made sense. When you are at the trailhead and your biggest threat is getting hit by a tree branch or Bambie, you just look like the afore mentioned paranoid idiot to me.
> 
> If someone shows up with a gun to a ride, I don't invite them back.


I don't make it a practice to inform everyone that I am packing, but if it is a sure way to get rid of smug trolls, I might have to start.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Ogre said:


> It's impossible to know whether the person you are meeting is a paranoid idiot or trained and competent. When my buddy ran his business and handled large sums of cash, packing made sense. When you are at the trailhead and your biggest threat is getting hit by a tree branch or Bambie, you just look like the afore mentioned paranoid idiot to me.
> 
> If someone shows up with a gun to a ride, I don't invite them back.


I don't carry on local singletrack trails. I live in suburban/rural Michigan. Not exactly a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Why do I have to be invited back? Besides, there's a difference between camping in the middle of nowhere a hundred miles from the Mexican border and riding a groomed trail close to home.

You're only paranoid until something happens, then you are prepared. I've never been in a house fire (or even seen one) but I still change my smoke alarm batteries every year.

Why does it make sense for your friend to carry a gun? By anti-gun logic he'll just either have his gun taken away from him by the criminal or shoot himself by accident. The fact that he is handling large sums of cash is irrelevant.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

rebel1916 said:


> I don't make it a practice to inform everyone that I am packing, but if it is a sure way to get rid of smug trolls, I might have to start.


Exactly. That's why it's called "concealed carry."


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

Ailuropoda said:


> Exactly. That's why it's called "concealed carry."


What's funny is I have run into past "clients" at the trail head. Perfectly pleasant conversation, thankfully, but it didn't make me less inclined to carry when I ride.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

It's a myth that their guns are dangerous to law-abiding citizens. Statistically, if you remove suicides and shootings by criminals in the commission of a crime, the risk of being shot is about the same as being struck by lightening.  There are 340 million people in the country so you're always going to have outliers. Not to minimize suicide, you understand, but it's not a threat to the public or to anyone but the poor soul pulling the trigger.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Ailuropoda said:


> I don't carry on local singletrack trails. I live in suburban/rural Michigan. Not exactly a post-apocalyptic wasteland. Why do I have to be invited back? Besides, there's a difference between camping in the middle of nowhere *a hundred miles from the Mexican border and riding a groomed trail close to home.*


Are the bears nastier near Mexico?

That's a big part of the country to be paranoid about being in. Most of LA, San Diego, Tucson, Phoenix, most of Arizona, big chunks of New Mexico, and Texas. Likely thousands of miles of trails and awesome camping in those areas. I'm far more worried inside those cities than on the trails around them.

It is paranoia when you don't have a realistic idea of risk.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I live less than 100 miles from the Mexican border. I guess I should just be scared to death at home, let alone sleeping while cowboy or tarp camping 

Southern AZ's pretty ummm uneventful on the trails, really... and we even have, bear, mountain lion, bobcat, wolf, coyote, and leopards here..


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Ailuropoda said:


> Statistically, if you remove suicides and shootings by criminals in the commission of a crime, the risk of being shot is about the same as being struck by lightening.


You know what's even less risky than accidental gun injuries?

Mountain lion, bears, and pretty much any "Dangerous Animal", by a pretty large margin.

Also, your understanding of statistics is about as good as your geography. There were 490 accidental firearms deaths in 2017. How many lightning strike deaths? That's not even counting injuries.

That same year? 2 people killed by bears.

There have only been about 25 bear and cougar related deaths since the turn of the century. In that same time the number of accidental gun deaths is in the thousands.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

And most likely, the majority of those accidental gun deaths are collateral damage on the other end of complete idiots... you know... the type that do drive bys, shoot wildly into the air during holidays, shoot at what they thought was motion in the woods without making sure their target was actually a deer before they pulled the trigger...

What most of the people in this conversation mean when they're talking about "accidental", precisely in the context we're discussing, is a guy manages to pull his gun in a wildlife encounter and shoots himself or his riding buddy. The likelihood of that happening is higher than a supermodel randomly appearing on the trail and giving out free sexual favors.

Howard Stern quoted someone recently; "The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism". Pretty pertinent here.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

KobayashiMaru said:


> The likelihood of that happening is higher than a supermodel randomly appearing on the trail and giving out free sexual favors.


You are bringing an additional risk into everyone's day for zero benefit. The chances you will have a truly dangerous animal encounter are almost nil. The chances you will actually be able to use your weapon in that encounter are even lower. While it isn't likely you will accidentally injure someone with it, there is absolutely no reason for your gun to be there at all.

Take your gun to the shooting range.

Use it to protect your well earned cash on the way to the bank.

Take it hunting.

Leave it at home when it's not needed on the trail.



> "The greater the ignorance, the greater the dogmatism"


What a fantastic quote from a guy who ignores all facts and statistics so he can cuddle a pointless chunk of metal in the woods.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Ogre said:


> You are bringing an additional risk into everyone's day for zero benefit. The chances you will have a truly dangerous animal encounter are almost nil. The chances you will actually be able to use your weapon in that encounter are even lower. While it isn't likely you will accidentally injure someone with it, there is absolutely no reason for your gun to be there at all.
> 
> Take your gun to the shooting range.
> 
> ...


I think we all agree that a gun won't do much good in a wildlife encounter against a Bear or a mountain lion. Most of us are not carrying for wildlife encounters. I buy a can of bear spray for that and try to be bear and wildlife aware. I even have bear bells on my bike although some knowledgable people say they are ineffective. Once again, you are only paranoid if you never need your gun or any other safety device. If you need it you are prepared. Personally, I'm bringing zero risk to your life. When you say "absolutely no risk," can you say with certainty that I will never need to to protect myself with a gun? That's what "absolutely no risk" means. Additionally, why do you need a gun to protect your well-earned cash on the way to the bank? People will rob you for five dollars and this kind of theft is much more common than somebody dropping off receipts at the bank. You just have to look like you might have some money in your wallet.

I'm pretty sure I won't shoot somebody who robs me of a few bucks. Either he has the drop on me for any number of reasons or I'll only get a shot as he's running away...which is considered murder in most states. Not only is it not worth the legal hassle but I don't think the Lord would approve. Concealed carry is not meant to protect money or property. I've taken two very good concealed carry classes in Louisiana and Michigan and this is made very clear. Your gun can only legally be used when you are reasonably sure that your life is in danger.

Suppose someone comes up to you on the street, puts a gun to your head, and demands your wallet. If you give him the wallet and then shoot him as he's walking away then you are now the criminal because your life is not at risk. If he comes at you with a gun, a knife, or a bat and you are quick on the draw that's different but you may have to defend your actions in court depending on the political leanings of your local prosecutor.

490 accidental firearm deaths in one year in a country of 340,000,000 with at least half of them owning guns? That's not even a risk to worry about and more like a statistical anomaly.

Also, I'm not carrying on well-used trails in well-populated areas because there is no need and the trouble of carrying (weight, cleaning, scaring non-gun owning people) is not worth it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Ailuropoda said:


> Suppose someone comes up to you on the street, puts a gun to your head, and demands your wallet. I


I'll leave the "street hero" conversation for another day.

Right now we're just talking about how pointless it is to pack to the trailhead where you are far more likely to get sideswiped by a deer. That is after all the topic, whether you should bring a gun to the trail to protect yourself from Bambi and Thumper.


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## Alparac42 (Feb 4, 2021)

Funny i never even considered riding in the dark. Sounds very dangerous lol


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Ogre said:


> What a fantastic quote from a guy who ignores all facts and statistics so he can cuddle a pointless chunk of metal in the woods.


Uh, did you ignore all the statistics I mentioned in post #107, all the other mention I and other people made of statistics, the fact that I already stated I've never carried while on a bike, and the fact I agree with how much more likely an animal will get you before you can get them? It seems like you're ignoring more here than I am, just so you can state your dogmatic viewpoint.

A gun is only dangerous to anyone if there is an idiot operating it. I drive 100,000 miles a year and I see way more evidence of idiots operating deadly machinery, like you know... all the millions of automobiles on the road. I bring up automobiles being more dangerous than guns because it's a perfect illustration of how little people are willing to actually accept statistics in this discussion. If you're worried about statistics, then you would be far more diligent in stating risks of operating automobiles than you are about people having guns. You aren't though, which strengthens my argument that you only dislike guns.

That's fine. I won't tell you what to do with your life like you have told me what to do with mine because I'm not an ass. I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion, and more likely in this case, their own feelings. Discussions of this nature become ridiculously stupid when people start applying emotions to them, and they no longer provide any fruit.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Hey gang, time to start yer own thread on carrying a gun on a bike.

It has been duly noted that a firearm is one option for personal protection when riding at night among dangerous animals.

-F


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Fleas said:


> Hey gang, time to start yer own thread on carrying a gun on a bike.
> 
> It has been duly noted that a firearm is one option for personal protection when riding at night among dangerous animals.
> 
> -F


No joke! Totally predictable though, could have just skipped from the thread title to post #182 and called it a day.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

It's a problem sometimes


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Fleas said:


> Hey gang, time to start yer own thread on carrying a gun on a bike.


Appologies. I'm done


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Alparac42 said:


> Funny i never even considered riding in the dark. Sounds very dangerous lol


Modern lights are very good.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

Alparac42 said:


> Funny i never even considered riding in the dark. Sounds very dangerous lol


it's fun actually.

This isn't me but I have done this race many times and its a blast just watch out for the cactus.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Is this a tree? Trees are those skinny straight things like this right? I don't worry about them falling on me where I ride. 









These little guys can get ya though. Be careful where you put a foot down when you stop.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Alparac42 said:


> Funny i never even considered riding in the dark. Sounds very dangerous lol


It's very fun! Adds a whole new dimension to the same trails you've ridden countless times.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Fajita Dave said:


> It's very fun! Adds a whole new dimension to the same trails you've ridden countless times.


I agree. It's definitely fun. I find that it's far more challenging too. Even the easier trails take on a whole new dimension in the dark riding with lights. I find it's easy to lose perspective of the trail. How big is that rock? Off camber stuff throws me more than anything. For me it's hard to judge the camber of the trail, and narrow off camber stuff is a bit sketchy. It's really cool though when you stop and all you can see is where your light is pointed. A little freaky when you hear those "noises" while your standing there or seeing the eyes glowing back at you. The other night I had a pack of coyotes yipping maybe 50-100 yards from where I was. Like Fajita said, old trails become new again after dark.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Also, unless you have flexible work hours, night riding is the only way to ride during the week for about half the year. I have to say by this time of year, I'm ready for daylight savings time and the end of the mandatory lights season.

Been doing a Wednesday night ride for so long I'd forgotten it's a novelty for some people.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

If you ride at night have a light on your bars and head. That gives you depth perception FYI. I have even tinted one light a different color like 3d glasses. What's cool is you kinda get tunnel vision. You don't worry about what's around you so much as what you see in your headlight. Some of my fastest times were at night. 

In desert riding trees don't hide the distance. Like the 24hop race. You can see the power lines miles away in the daytime. You think crap it's not getting closer. At night next thing you know you're past them. 

I did do a night ride in fountain Hills and wrecked smashing a big tarantula on my shoulder. It was pretty gross. I felt bad.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Alparac42 said:


> Funny i never even considered riding in the dark. Sounds very dangerous lol





JKA said:


> I agree. It's definitely fun. I find that it's far more challenging too. Even the easier trails take on a whole new dimension in the dark riding with lights. I find it's easy to lose perspective of the trail. How big is that rock? Off camber stuff throws me more than anything. For me it's hard to judge the camber of the trail, and narrow off camber stuff is a bit sketchy. It's really cool though when you stop and all you can see is where your light is pointed. A little freaky when you hear those "noises" while your standing there or seeing the eyes glowing back at you. The other night I had a pack of coyotes yipping maybe 50-100 yards from where I was. Like Fajita said, old trails become new again after dark.


When I used to ride a LOT, with other guys who rode a LOT, 1 night/week was a night ride. It was fast and furious, sometimes with a coupe beers for a warm-up. We knew the route/trails cold. I think we were actually faster at night - mostly due to the general loose, fun mood. Yeah, there's a perception of speed at night, but when you know the trail that well - like how many pedal strokes after the log before you brake, and where momentum will boost your speed over the next obstacle - you can almost ride it blindfolded. Heck, we only had ~15W Xenon bulbs...so _almost_ blind. So much fun!

The only "dangerous" thing we ever came across was a skunk (all 4 of us ran it over in the dark), a lazy deer (missed it), and some lightning (it missed us).

-F


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

azimiut said:


> I did do a night ride in fountain Hills and wrecked smashing a big tarantula on my shoulder. It was pretty gross. I felt bad.


Lol...yuck

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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Fleas said:


> It was fast and furious, sometimes with a coupe beers for a warm-up.


I won't tell anybody what not to do before they ride a bike, and before anybody thinks I'm adopting an anti-beer stance, I have no qualms about getting a buzz in the right settings...

It's odd though when considering the original question about encountering dangerous situations and how many rabbit holes of discussion it provided about what is actually a threat or not, how the casual mention of consuming alcohol _before_ riding a mountain bike trail, at wide open speeds, in the dark, is just glossed over as nothing that would add any danger to the situation at all.

I understand body mass, blood alcohol content relating to perceived (and actual) levels of inebriation, a person's tolerance to alcohol and all of that stuff, but there's enough evidence to show that alcohol will absolutely impair your reaction time, judgement, and decision-making, and couple that with darkness on a trail on a bike, I see a lot of dangerous elements being mixed together there.

No big deal though, in years past I put over 8000 miles on a 1300 V-twin motorcycle. I think, along with a lot of other people, that's a dangerous thing to do and you're playing a numbers game on how much sooner you're going to meet your maker, but what's life without living on the edge a little bit?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I understand there's enough evidence to show that alcohol will absolutely impair judgement, and decision-making, and couple that with darkness on a trail on a bike, I see a lot of dangerous elements being mixed together there




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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

Btw Tamiflu is also HIGHLY not recommended before a bike ride especially at night. That was a bad idea.


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## walkerwalker (Jul 17, 2020)

I usually smoke some peyote and pound a few absinthe cocktails before duct taping my pistol and a flashlight to my bars for my night rides. But don't worry I won't hurt anyone, I'm usually hours away from any other people.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

I didn't know Tamiflu side effects were confusion. Kinda funny story though


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

azimiut said:


> I didn't know Tamiflu side effects were confusion. Kinda funny story though


Confusion, concussion... more confusion.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I won't tell anybody what not to do before they ride a bike, and before anybody thinks I'm adopting an anti-beer stance, I have no qualms about getting a buzz in the right settings...
> 
> It's odd though when considering the original question about encountering dangerous situations and how many rabbit holes of discussion it provided about what is actually a threat or not, how the casual mention of consuming alcohol _before_ riding a mountain bike trail, at wide open speeds, in the dark, is just glossed over as nothing that would add any danger to the situation at all.
> 
> ...


Oh, I paid for taking it to excess. I crashed into a ditch and nearly ripped the sleeve off my shirt. My shoulder didn't look too good either. It was very educational, though. I have been a more generally moderate person ever since. 

-F


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

azimiut said:


> Btw Tamiflu is also HIGHLY not recommended before a bike ride especially at night. That was a bad idea.


Good info. 

-F


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I won't tell anybody what not to do before they ride a bike, and before anybody thinks I'm adopting an anti-beer stance, I have no qualms about getting a buzz in the right settings...
> 
> It's odd though when considering the original question about encountering dangerous situations and how many rabbit holes of discussion it provided about what is actually a threat or not, how the casual mention of consuming alcohol _before_ riding a mountain bike trail, at wide open speeds, in the dark, is just glossed over as nothing that would add any danger to the situation at all.
> 
> ...


While being drunk might impair judgement and coordination it does also make you indestructible. Just look at how many drunk drivers survive the crashes they get into!


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Fajita Dave said:


> While being drunk might impair judgement and coordination it does also make you indestructible.


It also makes women on the trail you might happen across look much more attractive than they really are, and seeing attractive women on the trail is always a bonus.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Oh, our yearly fear a wild animal while mountain biking thread. Can’t wait until this one gets ramped up, oh wait, it’s already there.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I won't tell anybody what not to do before they ride a bike, and before anybody thinks I'm adopting an anti-beer stance, I have no qualms about getting a buzz in the right settings...
> 
> It's odd though when considering the original question about encountering dangerous situations and how many rabbit holes of discussion it provided about what is actually a threat or not, how the casual mention of consuming alcohol _before_ riding a mountain bike trail, at wide open speeds, in the dark, is just glossed over as nothing that would add any danger to the situation at all.
> 
> ...


I'd rather someone pound beers before a ride rather than afterward. If they have a few before a ride, then they might hurt themselves. I'd assume that the ride would eventually burn out all the alcohol before they hit the road. If they have them after the ride and before driving home, then they might kill someone else.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Oh, our yearly fear a wild animal while mountain biking thread. Can't wait until this one gets ramped up, oh wait, it's already there.


Yearly? I thought this was a quarterly event.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Oh, our yearly fear a wild animal while mountain biking thread. Can't wait until this one gets ramped up, oh wait, it's already there.


...but this one is at night. ComPLETEly different.

-F


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I have a Kimber Pepper Blaster 2. I forget to take it with me most of the time.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Curveball said:


> I'd rather someone pound beers before a ride rather than afterward.


I'm with you on that, but we were all talking about what's dangerous on the trail, so I didn't make that distinction. It goes without saying that drinking after a ride and then getting in your car is way dangerous, but like other dangers and statistics people like to ignore while they pick and choose what to be worried about, a ton of people never even give that sort of thing a second thought. No doubt it's one of the reasons there is a 1 in 100 chance you'll die in a car wreck.

I've never really understood the drinking beer after a bike ride thing. That's the worst time to put alcohol in your body. You're most likely dehydrated from the ride, and you need _proper_ nutrition to help repair your body... Alcohol is exactly the opposite of what you need. Alas, it's a huge thing in the cycling community. I've been to weekly time trials where 60 or 70 people all finish up a lap at the same time, immediately crack open the beers, and stand around drinking for an hour afterwards. I'm like the only one walking around drinking water at that point.

The roads are a super safe place.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

KobayashiMaru said:


> I drink beer after a bike ride. That's the time to put alcohol in your body. You're most likely dehydrated from the ride, and you need nutrition to help repair your body... Alcohol is exactly what you need.


Less faff, more fun!

Sent from my moto g(6) forge using Tapatalk


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I'm not the morality police or anything. There was a time when I preferred drinking 40s to beer and could easily polish off 2 and sometimes 3 in a night. I just made sure I wasn't going anywhere else afterwards if I did, and that was 20 something years ago too. Nowadays it hurts too much the following day if I have more than two drinks in a night.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

Night riding by my house. This is about 2 miles where the dirt road ends and the forest road starts. Love night riding in the desert. Only time it's cool out


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Ogre said:


> I'll leave the "street hero" conversation for another day.
> 
> Right now we're just talking about how pointless it is to pack to the trailhead where you are far more likely to get sideswiped by a deer. That is after all the topic, whether you should bring a gun to the trail to protect yourself from Bambi and Thumper.


I don't ride a lot of trails. I do mostly dirt gravel and train for endurance races like the Tour Divide.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I think people underestimate the raw predatory killing power of the badger.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ or a wolverine. Both are bad ass animals.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

noapathy said:


> ...the bears will be waking up from their nap not too long from now.


Looks like my neighborhood bear, Lil Bill, has already adventured out.


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## Z71-K9 (Oct 22, 2010)

porcupine den


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

singletrackmack said:


> Looks like my neighborhood bear, Lil Bill, has already adventured out.
> 
> View attachment 1919523


Did you know his den was there before seeing this digging out evidence? It warmed up here rather quickly and I suspect I'll be having a bear two sightings here in the next week or so.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Z71-K9 said:


> porcupine den


Could be but they mainly live inside of hollowed out trees. That looks very much so like a bear den to me.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Did you know his den was there before seeing this digging out evidence? It warmed up here rather quickly and I suspect I'll be having a bear two sightings here in the next week or so.


Ya, the tree is right off one of the xc trails accross the street from my house. I saw him in there a couple months ago before there was enough snow to cover up the hole. That picture was from yesterday evening. Since I know it is there I make myself noisy an keep an eye out when on that trail.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

singletrackmack said:


> Ya, the tree is right off one of the xc trails accross the street from my house. I saw him in there a couple months ago before there was enough snow to cover up the hole. That picture was from yesterday evening. Since I know it is there I make myself noisy an keep an eye out when on that trail.


Awesome!


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## Z71-K9 (Oct 22, 2010)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Could be but they mainly live inside of hollowed out trees. That looks very much so like a bear den to me.


I have captured alot of bears. Lots of research bears in the winter to check on cubs. Not once was a den in a tree. I would bet two boxes of 9mm, thats a porcupine.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Z71-K9 said:


> I have captured alot of bears. Lots of research bears in the winter to check on cubs. Not once was a den in a tree. I would bet two boxes of 9mm, thats a porcupine.


"Pregnant females will den for the entire winter. Because their cubs will be born in the den, they often select more protected sites than other bears. *Dens* are commonly made on the ground in 'nests' in dense thickets, but *have also been found in tree cavities* and under blow-downs or fallen logs."






Hibernation


Hibernation




myfwc.com





This is a younger male black bear, not the female with cubs. An older male and female live in the park accross the street from my house. Mom has given birth to two rounds of cubs over the last decade I have lived here. This little guy has decided to stay in the neiborhood the last 2 years.

I have encountered bears, coyotes, bobcats and dear in this park. Never a porcupine and that is with 2 dogs off leash on the majority of some 300 outings per year into the park over the last decade. I run into black bears a few times a month in the spring and fall, sometimes while in my bathrobe, although I don't have a shotgun lamp ?


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

If you ride at Whiting Ranch at night, for example, there's a good chance you've been watched by a mountain lion. And there have been attacks. So it does happen. When I rode there a couple times, my buddy who was local didn't choose to share with me that there may be lions on the prowl. ;-)

It's a serious enough concern that the trails were closed this week due to high levels of lion activity:

Whiting Ranch remains closed with near-daily mountain lion sightings - Orange County Register (ocregister.com)


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Big cats give me the heebie jeebies. If you see one, you can be sure that they've seen you and have been watching you for a while to see if you look like dinner. Silent and deadly when they want to be.


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## Alparac42 (Feb 4, 2021)

JKA said:


> Big cats give me the heebie jeebies. If you see one, you can be sure that they've seen you and have been watching you for a while to see if you look like dinner. Silent and deadly when they want to be.


Agree, i was hiking in Annadel state park i CA once, and my friend and me were stopped dead in our tracks by 2 glowing eyes observing us from the edge of the woods. We both instantly knew that i was mountain lions. After backing away we ran the f down the mountain for the parking lot. I bet it had been observing us for a while, only being given away by light reflecting in it's eyes.

I guess they didn't say no hiking after dark for no reason lol


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Z71-K9 said:


> I have captured alot of bears. Lots of research bears in the winter to check on cubs. Not once was a den in a tree. I would bet two boxes of 9mm, thats a porcupine.


Well it looks like you've got some more spots to check in your future endeavors then. The mind boggles at how many you may have walked right past. ?









Winter Dens - North American Bear Center


Bears den in a variety of places. If you suspect something is a den, look for a bed of leaves, although not all bears make beds if they den after...




bear.org


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

I was late to work this morning because there was a bobcat between my house and the garage around 4:45am and it did not want to leave. typical of a cat. the only difference between a house cat and a tiger is weight. All cats are jerks.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

azimiut said:


> I was late to work this morning because there was a bobcat between my house and the garage around 4:45am and it did not want to leave. typical of a cat. the only difference between a house cat and a tiger is weight. All cats are jerks.


Indeed. I bring the dogs out, the cats leave.

We had coyotes singing on the night ride last night. Musta been a good kill.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> Indeed. I bring the dogs out, the cats leave.
> 
> We had coyotes singing on the night ride last night. Musta been a good kill.


I took some of my crew on a night gravel ride last week. About 1/2 way into the right, we go by a small zoo that has a couple wolves. I didn't tell them in advance. Hilarious to see their reaction when the two wolves started howling when we went by. Ha.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

dysfunction said:


> Indeed. I bring the dogs out, the cats leave.
> 
> We had coyotes singing on the night ride last night. Musta been a good kill.


The yotes are always hanging out around the house. We drain our RO discharge into a storage container and it is full and overflowing so there is water to drink and the animals hang out there.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

azimiut said:


> The yotes are always hanging out around the house. We drain our RO discharge into a storage container and it is full and overflowing so there is water to drink and the animals hang out there.


We have an arroyo in the front "yard". So if it's in the Sonoran desert, and below 5,000.. it's probably here. (I haven't seen any evidence of leopard here yet)


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

I back up to Tonto Nat Forest at about 2300ft elevation and big hills so I have a bit of everything.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

azimiut said:


> I was late to work this morning because there was a bobcat between my house and the garage around 4:45am and it did not want to leave. typical of a cat. the only difference between a house cat and a tiger is weight. All cats are jerks.


Cats are jerks for sure!

We have a couple that come through the yard. Last year one killed a deer on the neighbors yard and left a mess. Few weeks back one destroyed a turkey and again, left a mess at the bottom of the hill.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Shark said:


> Cats are jerks for sure!
> 
> We have a couple that come through the yard. Last year one killed a deer on the neighbors yard and left a mess. Few weeks back one destroyed a turkey and again, left a mess at the bottom of the hill.


There are plenty of safe, secure, nature free places to live for people who don't want to deal with those headaches. Personally, I prefer our place being wild. Drives me crazy when people move out into the wild areas then want everything fenced, mowed, and domesticated.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I agree!
It was a happy day when I took the mower deck off , (turned into a snowblower).

We've had deer, moose, cougar, turkeys in the yard so far. Waiting for a bear and elk sighting.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

I like to keep our place natural. I do run the tractor over it to keep the invasive grasses down for fire safety. I have not done any early morning rides simply because it is the season for everything to start coming out and the spring mate which makes everything more dangerous. here is my area


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Shark said:


> I agree!
> It was a happy day when I took the mower deck off , (turned into a snowblower).
> 
> We've had deer, moose, cougar, turkeys in the yard so far. Waiting for a bear and elk sighting.


If I didn't mow a couple times a year, the blackberries get 10 feet tall. So we whack them down every spring and fall making sure to leave a 10 foot tall/ 10 foot deep bramble along much of the property line.

This is half-swamp mode looking out our bedroom window. Before the mower, this whole area was covered in (non-native) blackberries.










Depending on time of year it might be full swamp or dry.

Mostly deer, ducks, lots of other birds, and a fox who brings us golf balls from the driving range across the highway.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

No night riding for me, too scary. A guy was just killed a couple of days ago by a grizzly bear in my state of Montana. He died two days after the attack from facial and scalp lacerations. That’s some horrible ****.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ I don't think he was riding his bike at night though.


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## Zguitar71 (Nov 8, 2020)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^ I don't think he was riding his bike at night though.


Nope, he was fishing in the day time.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Yes, that was not a good outcome. He had bear spray, but investigators were unsure if he had the opportunity to use it. Very unfortunate.


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## froze (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't understand the fear of riding at night and encountering animals, you have a far far greater chance of getting hit by a car...DAY OR NIGHT, then you do from an animal but yet you have fear of being struck by an animal and not be concerned about being hit by a car? I just don't see the rational behind such thinking. I don't get fearful being hit by a car either, if was fearful about being hit by a car I would never be riding my bike!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

froze said:


> I don't understand the fear of riding at night and encountering animals, you have a far far greater chance of getting hit by a car...DAY OR NIGHT, then you do from an animal but yet you have fear of being struck by an animal and not be concerned about being hit by a car? I just don't see the rational behind such thinking. I don't get fearful being hit by a car either, if was fearful about being hit by a car I would never be riding my bike!


Familiarity, or lack thereof. It may not be rational but it's easily understandable to me.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I really enjoy night riding, but riding through the forest at night allows me to tune out everything that exists beyond my sphere of light. So, to me what lies beyond my light, doesn't exist. 

I have a few riding friends that have tried to ride with me and it just creeps them out to the point they no longer will honor the night ride invite.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

froze said:


> I don't understand the fear of riding at night and encountering animals, you have a far far greater chance of getting hit by a car...


I totally agree, but save your energy. I already presented this logic, along with many interesting statistics, back in post 107 of the thread.

It didn't have the effect you might think it would.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

*Member has removed content due to fundamental disagreement with this site owner's views favoring expanded access for electric mountain bikes (eMtb) on multiuse singletrack in public lands.*


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Cars are to be feared. Unpredictable like a rabid animal. I have experienced what it is like to impact an automobiles windshield then becoming a projectile as they slam on the brakes.  Never a good outcome.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Cleared2land said:


> I really enjoy night riding, but riding through the forest at night allows me to tune out everything that exists beyond my sphere of light. So, to me what lies beyond my light, doesn't exist.
> 
> I have a few riding friends that have tried to ride with me and it just creeps them out to the point they no longer will honor the night ride invite.


They are not worthy of being your friend... the best thing to do is excise them from your life entirely. (J/K... mostly)

My closest friends are my Wednesday night riding buddies. It's a ritual.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Outside of the few times I have biked/hiked in grizzly country, I have never worried about animals, day or night, other than bears getting in my stuff if camping.

I’ve encountered too many black bears to count (many dozens), and they don’t bother me. What DID freak me out was the one time I came up fast on some Moose around Jackson Hole. Never seen a Griz, and I will be fine if it stays that way.

All that said, I’m not a real fan of riding at night. As it is, I miss a lot when mountain biking even more so at night. The only time I find it really cool is when I stop and turn off the lights.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Sir kayakalot said:


> And I have caught many Rattlesnakes and never killed one.
> 
> View attachment 1918066
> 
> ...


I find it interesting how many people are worried about snakes. Trying to catch or handle a rattler is about the only way a person will usually ever get bit by a snake.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

KRob said:


> I find it interesting how many people are worried about snakes. Trying to catch or handle a rattler is about the only way a person will usually ever get bit by a snake.


Very true, except when you unwittingly almost step on one. I stopped one time and had a little trouble clipping out so I stumbled a little bit and had to do the foot hop to keep my balance. The second I put my foot down, I heard the dreaded rattle.My foot was maybe 10-12 inches from a coiled up and angry rattlesnake next to a bush. I just froze and didn't move for about 3 hours (it seemed like that but was probably 30 seconds) of pure fear until he slowly calmed down and slithered off. Good thing too, because I was way out in the desert riding alone and the ride home would have been a little less enjoyable after a bite from him.


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## DrDon (Sep 25, 2004)

JKA said:


> Very true, except when you unwittingly almost step on one. I stopped one time and had a little trouble clipping out so I stumbled a little bit and had to do the foot hop to keep my balance. The second I put my foot down, I heard the dreaded rattle.My foot was maybe 10-12 inches from a coiled up and angry rattlesnake next to a bush. I just froze and didn't move for about 3 hours (it seemed like that but was probably 30 seconds) of pure fear until he slowly calmed down and slithered off. Good thing too, because I was way out in the desert riding alone and the ride home would have been a little less enjoyable after a bite from him.


A similar scenario happened to me twice. I continue not worry about snakes.

Grizzlies. Oh my....

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

DrDon said:


> A similar scenario happened to me twice. I continue not worry about snakes.
> 
> Grizzlies. Oh my....
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


Did you read up on the Grizzly attack from this past week near Yellowstone. A fatality and a pretty graphic read. Check out the bear thread in Off Camber.


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## azimiut (Feb 21, 2014)

I have been hit by a car twice and attacked by an animal once and all three were during the day time. I have hit a snake or two while riding. they are as terrified as you might be. last time I didn't even know I hit it until my buddy told me. 

I will say cows kinda suck, they stand on the trail and you think they are going to move but no. Its like hitting a brick wall that poops.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

seeing fresh wolf tracks in the snow at night makes you think.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Wolves don't really concern me much. It's fresh bigfoot tracks that make me think. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ransom208 said:


> seeing fresh wolf tracks in the snow at night makes you think.


Exactly how many people have been killed my wolves in the past 50 years or so?

I mean don't go playing with them, but wolves are far more likely to eat mice than men.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

The only think that has bothered my while riding at night was seeing a freshly dug shallow grave with the shovel still sitting in the dirt pile. I got out of there real quick.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

To quote from Casino: Of course you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're looking at 30 or 45 minutes of digging, and who knows who could come by in that time? Before you know it, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all [email protected]&king night.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

Ogre said:


> Exactly how many people have been killed my wolves in the past 50 years or so?
> 
> I mean don't go playing with them, but wolves are far more likely to eat mice than men.


They are actually fun to play with, and when howling back and forth with them, you can learn tone. but still eary peddaling away at night after talking to them, especially when the howl is, where are you?

But i digress, have you actually ever ran into a pack of wolves on your bike? I have, actually i have about 6 wolf encounters, never once worried about my life, but you do think about the wolf's hunting techniques.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

Ogre said:


> Exactly how many people have been killed my wolves in the past 50 years or so?
> 
> I mean don't go playing with them, but wolves are far more likely to eat mice than men.


Actually, if you study wolves, and read up on them. In WOLVES ON THE HUNT by Meecham. He talks about how wolves don't eat mice, so probably more humans have been eaten then mice. That movie was fiction. But there have only been a couple of attacks on people. Peoples dogs, way different story.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ransom208 said:


> Actually, if you study wolves, and read up on them. In WOLVES ON THE HUNT by Meecham. He talks about how wolves don't eat mice, so probably more humans have been eaten then mice. That movie was fiction. But there have only been a couple of attacks on people. Peoples dogs, way different story.


Depends on where they live, but wolves do indeed eat mice.


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## [email protected] (Jun 13, 2019)

Mountain lions are the worst-case scenario where I live. They're in the urban interface, front country, and back country . We have plenty of rattlers but haven't had any bad encounters in 20+ years. At night I use a bell to minimize surprises and carry bear spray in case of a tussle. A lion will likely see me before I see it and jump from behind. I believe we've been stalked a few times while hiking. It's fun learning what a lion's paw prints look like (as opposed to a dog's) and looking for them when hiking.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Plenty of cats around here. One was reported in a residential neighborhood last week. The scat above was full of deer hair.

I do live in Montana, and have seen black bears on our local trails several times. Can't say I've ever thought about them while night riding, though. It's not like we're sneaking around with our bright lights.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

In Colorado, we only have mountain lions and smaller black bears, as far as larger predators go. I don't bother carrying a gun or anything. In my neighbor trails, we do have both as well and I got bear spray since our trails are not crowded like most so I can go 2-3 hours and see very few people. Still, the few I have seen, are super skittish and run off fast, or climb trees and wait till we are gone. My real worry is running into a skunk.


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## [email protected] (Jun 13, 2019)

Flyer said:


> My real worry is running into a skunk.


Came around a sharp bend and got sprayed last year around dusk. It was maybe 6 feet away. Was surprised the skunk could hit me that quickly. It was months before the smell went away (carbon crank arm & carbon bottom bracket area plus a shoe).


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, THAT is a practical realistic issue. Sucks about the spray!!! Glad you mentioned this. I'll be more careful. I was riding one evening and was pretty deep in the forest. I hadn't seen anyone and prob would not since it was evening. I'm riding along this narrow fast trail with a rocky wall on one side and lush vegetation and drop-off on the other. I thought it was a fluffy dog in front of me but no...it was a fat skunk just trotting along. He finally realized I was behind him but could not find a spot to dive into due to the steepness. So, I stayed well behind but the bugger just started slowing down and walking. So I had to just keep up with him to keep up the pressure while staying 40-50 ft behind. Well, guess what? We turn a corner and another skunk is there. Good lord!!! C'mon now..it is going to get dark soon. So I had to ride behind those friendly (to each other) dodos for another 5 mins or so till they finally felt comfortable taking a sharp right into the downhill shrubs etc. Yeah, THAT worries me. Bears and mountain lions- nope. At least here, they are well fed and skittish, preferring to take off like they saw a ghost.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

[email protected] said:


> Came around a sharp bend and got sprayed last year around dusk. It was maybe 6 feet away. Was surprised the skunk could hit me that quickly. It was months before the smell went away (carbon crank arm & carbon bottom bracket area plus a shoe).


They are notoriously bad about running away from you... slowly... along the trail. I chased one for about half a mile at about 4 MPH on a downhill one time. Very frustrating. The little bastard just wouldn't move off the trail.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

KobayashiMaru said:


> To quote from Casino: Of course you gotta have the hole already dug before you show up with a package in the trunk. Otherwise, you're looking at 30 or 45 minutes of digging, and who knows who could come by in that time? Before you know it, you gotta dig a few more holes. You could be there all [email protected]&king night.


Who IS this guy? Please stick around.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Ogre said:


> They are notoriously bad about running away from you... slowly... along the trail. I chased one for about half a mile at about 4 MPH on a downhill one time. Very frustrating. The little bastard just wouldn't move off the trail.


Uh, the "little bastard" was me.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Finch Platte said:


> Uh, the "little bastard" was me.


Similar deal happened on time on one of the Halloween rides we did from Jason's along the Mokelumne. Were you on that ride?


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Finch Platte said:


> Who IS this guy? Please stick around.


From another classic of roughly the same era: No one of consequence.

I'll stick around as long as the ROUSes don't stink the place up too bad.


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## dernst (Aug 7, 2015)

It’s simple. All you have to do is make sure you’re the most dangerous thing in the woods at night.

Problem solved


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dernst said:


> It's simple. All you have to do is make sure you're the most dangerous thing in the woods at night.
> 
> Problem solved


Thats a hell of a lot of weight lifting, seal team accomplished, Golden glove boxing certified, 4th degree Black Belt awarded, bad ass, many years disciplined infused testosterone driven yearsssss.

It could happen.


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## Yomoe (Nov 7, 2020)

dernst said:
It's simple. All you have to do is make sure you're the most dangerous thing in the woods at night.

Problem solved 

Nope, just need to make sure your not the slowest


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## Dan Zulu (Jul 5, 2008)

I carry bacon in my frame bag. In case of emergency; throw.


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## Roaming50 (Apr 30, 2009)

In my years of night-riding, I've encountered a bobcat, several brown bears, many coyotes, snakes, tarantulas and raccoons (one of which I collided with as it ran into my bike), and a badger (in England) that actually attacked my bike (my suspension was squeaking).

The most annoying are the ground nesting birds (that disguise themselves as rocks) that fly up into your face as you cycle near them and the frogs the also pretent to be rocks on the trails. Cows are also a menace that lay on the trail and refuse to budge. A horse scared the crap out of me once on open range as it trotted up to me out of my light and I only noticed it when its head was a couple of feet away from my head.

The scariest animal by far are the rabbits. They are suicidal little monsters that one day will kill me along with themselves. You try to avoid them on trails and they dart chaotic fashion. You think you are safely past one then it will suddenly dart back to your front wheel to try to take you down. Not good when going 30mph downhill. About 5 years back one tried that to me. After a thud thud, I realized 29er wheels roll quite well over bunnies...

That was in Colorado. I now live in a big city. I suspect my biggest problems now are rabbits (again) and this time meth-heads...


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