# Polar M400 multiple issues



## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

I'm still running WinXP and as Polar claims it is supported, I got M400.

1st issue.

Flow sync installs ok, but is not able to connect, it says:


> Application authentication failed (ssl handshake failed). Check that your computer's date and time are correct and try again. If the problem continues, check FlowSync | Polar Global for more information.


That prevents me of course updating Polar M400 or setting it up on web service. Time is of course correct. Somehow it might relate to certificates, I remember having once bit similar issue and what I needed was to import certificate, but can't remember much more about that. Or then it is just fault in Flow sync's SSL and WinXP missing SSL protocol needed. 
I tested with other WinXP that is in virgin state with all updates and such, same issue, I tried with two different methods to connect machines to internet but still the same, I guess it is in Flow Sync then?

2nd issue.

I tried then fitness test from watch and that seem to work, gives me status of Elite though which cannot be right, but when I start workout it says something went wrong and reset is needed, well device is resetting and I try to start exercise again, but same error. 
Maybe bug in firmware or fact that device has not been set via web interface yet which is emerging some bug in devices firmware.

What a load of crap comes to my mind, but maybe problems are possible to solve, anyone that is still running WinXP and has experience of first issue?
2nd issue, I guess I would need firmware update, which I can't get with Flow sync not working.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It really does sound like you have a software problem.

Many devices will function in USB mass storage mode. I'm assuming this one doesn't?


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Harold said:


> It really does sound like you have a software problem.
> 
> Many devices will function in USB mass storage mode. I'm assuming this one doesn't?


It is modern watch so it is this "one huge button, press it and wish that everything works" kind of philosophy instead of something one could actually tweak or use any other way than manufacturer intended.

It does not show up at all, not in device manager or anywhere else, yet it makes sound and is recognized when plugged in so there is no problem with connection of watch and PC, there are no any options about connections in watch, so I haven't figured out how to get any access to it and there are no firmware update files available as far as I know.

Flow sync is made in Qt and uses openSSL, I'm not that much of coder, but I would guess it is not using WinXP SSL features to make connection. Anyway this software seem to be working about the same, as ones I have managed to throw together, which is not too great.

Testing with two completely separate systems should eliminate possibility of problems on my machines, but you never know, conflict with mobile partner or something in WinXP still could make error happen, but is it still at Polar's end to sort their software out.

Still that leaves issue with watch that causes it to crash when starting activity/exercise/workout by pressing lap button, they actually shipped product with such bug is bit interesting choice, it is quite difficult not to notice that kind of bug or then unit is just faulty one, again difficult to know when only error message is "something went wrong", no codes, no details, nothing to get hold of, which is this modern fashion with things I so much dislike.

There is log file for Flow sync PC application, but it does not reveal much else, than there is problem with SSL connection. 


> [17:07:02.572] [3208] Application version: 2.6.2
> [17:07:02.588] [3208] Build: Distribution
> [17:07:02.588] [3208] Libpolar2 version: 5.2.2-r990
> [17:07:02.588] [3208] Set no proxy.
> ...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Yeah, you've already gone deeper into the programming than I'm comfortable with. Do you know anyone running a more modern version of Windoze that you could convince to let you install this program and check for updates and see if that addresses connection issues on your own computer (as well as fixing the bug on the device itself)?

I have a friend who recently got the Polar M400 and has been posting about it on social media. I just went through a bunch of her posts and am not seeing the kinds of issues that you're having. Maybe a longer conversation with Polar's customer support is in order.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Harold said:


> Yeah, you've already gone deeper into the programming than I'm comfortable with. Do you know anyone running a more modern version of Windoze that you could convince to let you install this program and check for updates and see if that addresses connection issues on your own computer (as well as fixing the bug on the device itself)?
> 
> I have a friend who recently got the Polar M400 and has been posting about it on social media. I just went through a bunch of her posts and am not seeing the kinds of issues that you're having. Maybe a longer conversation with Polar's customer support is in order.


I know one, but I don't know how it messes up his Polar account as he is using Polar Loop and these devices are somehow registered to account on Polar service when connected. Not sure if that happens and what if temporary user account is created, would that prevent getting it assigned to only to my account, it is worth to consider.

I did send mail to Polar, but no reply to it yet, then again it might be unrealistic to except answer before Tuesday anyway, I might test that updating with more modern computer meanwhile if I find time for that during the weekend.

There probably are not too many xp machines anymore in use, so maybe problem is with OS or Flow with specific OS, just impossible to know really until Polar answers something.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The Polar M400 is quite a new watch that was released recently.

Looking around there is this Polar FlowSync compatibility page.

http://www.polar.com/uk-en/support/...wsync_software?product_id=64042&category=faqs

At the bottom it specifically says that there is one polar device, the Polar V650, which isn't compatible with Windows XP. The Polar V650 is also quite a new device, that only came out a few months earlier than the Polar M400. It wouldn't surprise me to discover that if there is one recent Polar device that has no Windows XP support then other devices released after it may have no support either.

Regarding date and time issues on a computer, have you checked that the date and time in the computer Bios settings is correct? That can frequently cause issues if it is out by several years. If you have an older computer it may need the CR2032 cmos battery on the motherboard replacing for it to keep the proper time in the Bios.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

WR304 said:


> The Polar M400 is quite a new watch that was released recently.
> 
> Looking around there is this Polar FlowSync compatibility page.
> 
> ...


Flow sync software has support for Windows XP. 
M400 came 2014 so even it is fairly recent it has been around for awhile.

Also same here as in your link:
Technical Specification

Main problem I think is with Flow sync software as that is not connecting to polarremote.com or some other place it tries to connect.

Watch itself should work regardless of computer, but it has firmware issue, so need to get firmware updated, maybe it works then, or then something else is wrong with the watch, could be hardware issue too.

It did not help to turn GPS off for default running profile either, so it is related to something else than that I guess, but then again I have no information what code is run when watch is set to exercise mode, sport profile selection appears and split second later it crashes so some code that is run in that switch of mode is triggering the bug or faulty hardware.

I'm not sure now, but I think this laptop updates bios time when I update time in Windows, of course I can check that to be sure.

Other computer had dry battery, it complained about date, I set it in Windows and rebooted and there was no complaint about date, but it can be that my memory lies, it does that often.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

grumpy old biker said:


> I'm not sure now, but I think this laptop updates bios time when I update time in Windows, of course I can check that to be sure.
> 
> Other computer had dry battery, it complained about date, I set it in Windows and rebooted and there was no complaint about date, but it can be that my memory lies, it does that often.


The date and time settings are something to double check by going into the computer Bios itself. The Bios time and date being different to the actual time and date can cause the problem you describe in some programs. That sounds like the first thing to investigate and eliminate as a possibility.

I was trying to see if Polar Flow may need anything additional to work, such as Microsoft .net framework, Java etc. If there is an outdated version of something like that on your computer it could possibly cause issues that stop the sync working.

Javascript and cookies need to be enabled. If you have any pop up or adblocker software running I'd try disabling it.

http://www.polar.com/uk-en/support/...requirements_for_using_polar_flow_web_service

As Polar Flow is web based what web browser are you using? I'd be inclined to try a different web browser. Sometimes web based software works in one browser but not another. I'd try the newest Firefox or Chrome browsers, with any pop up and adblocker software disabled.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

WR304 said:


> The date and time settings are something to double check by going into the computer Bios itself. The Bios time and date being different to the actual time and date can cause the problem you describe in some programs. That sounds like the first thing to investigate and eliminate as a possibility.
> 
> I was trying to see if Polar Flow may need anything additional to work, such as Microsoft .net framework, Java etc. If there is an outdated version of something like that on your computer it could possibly cause issues that stop the sync working.
> 
> ...


Polar Flow Sync is not browser based, it is coded in Qt and is standalone software which is used to update and sync M400 via USB cable.

No problem with Polar Flow web site, that is fun when companies name their products and services alike, it is easy to get confused about what is what.

It is impossible for this computer to have different time in bios and OS, any change in time made in OS is affecting BIOS and other way around.

Flow Sync does use Bonjour service ( http://developer.apple.com/bonjour/ ), there has not been errors related to that, but I might swap few java versions to see if there is any different effect. 
What I could see when looking quickly of Bonjour, there should be no issue there either, service is running and it has open ports that firewall is not blocking, it is using Java though.

Problem is Windows XP is still too good OS and these big companies need to force it to die by trying their best to prevent new updates and driving constant updates so that OS would become useless, without no real reason except making money, so I think I have latest Java that will be possible to install.

Then again Bonjour is working, no crashing or complaining about Java version and again XP is supported OS by Polar and Bonjour is 2010 version, while latest Java for XP is from 2015, so I'm quite positive issue is not that.

I don't remember more than few clients, whom computers I fixed, where issue was one of the most common tech support suggestions, like updating, restarting etc. Usually issue was much more interesting to solve and very often reason was bugs in software in question and sometimes it was bit challenging to get tech support of software company to see what in their software was causing the issue.

It was interesting time repairing computers, but it was long ago, when XP was fresh and new, nowadays I just get frustrated if darn thing does not work 

Hopefully Polar gets back to me so that they can look into issue.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

The last Polar device I had was a Polar RS800CX in 2010. Since then I haven't had any Polar devices or used the Polar Flowsync software. The lack of ANT+ connectivity meant they weren't even an option.

There's a list of Polar M400 firmware release notes here:

M400 Release Notes | Polar Global

Version 1.6.4 (08 July 2015) is supposed to contain a fix for the device resetting whilst recording. If you have an older firmware than that update may fix your second issue, once you can get the device to sync.

There's an official Polar M400 forum here:

https://forum.polar.fi/forumdisplay.php?f=124&order=desc

There's no obvious solution to the sync issue but it may be worth a look through.

If you know someone with a computer that is running a newer version of Windows I would try Polar flowsync with your Polar M400 on that, to test that the Polar M400 itself is working properly. If you have no activities on your device then even if it does sync it shouldn't put any workouts into an existing account.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

WR304 said:


> The last Polar device I had was a Polar RS800CX in 2010. Since then I haven't had any Polar devices or used the Polar Flowsync software. The lack of ANT+ connectivity meant they weren't even an option.
> 
> There's a list of Polar M400 firmware release notes here:
> 
> ...


I wrote earlier about setting up another user account, I think that should get around of that registering device to wrong account issue, but let's see how things go, weekend seems to be busy one again.

I have read about those firmware updates and I was thinking about that update that it might fix issue with watch, or then not, but certainly must be tested.

Sync issue could also be need of update to windows, some update that has came after SP3, but there is no mention of such, it would be nice to know which one could be related to that as I really don't find need to update more megabytes than XP took from cdrom. I have never had any issues with viruses or such as I don't let OS to be line of defence, so it does not really matter if OS is up to date or not.

I do have SP3 which is required of course, but no mention about any needs that would have been released after that. I need to go trough what all of those fixes are supposed to be of course.

I like my OS light, memory footprint is only 180MB in total, but I know that if I put all the updates OS will bloat to lot more than that, but that might be one possibility.

Although, I would be very interested to know if there is someone with XP and using Flow sync and without issues.

e: Oh yes, thanks from forum link, I have done searches and it hasn't come up with them, oh why in modern world everything is hidden


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

I built 3rd XP machine, put all the updates in, no any change in FlowSync, still same error.

Polar forums seems to be quite dead, or at least very quiet place, some are having same issue nobody seem to have even suggestions. 

I got automatic e-mail reply from Polar, 29 hours after sending mail to them, reply apologizes in advance that they are having lot of mails and answer might take time. 

Maybe I should of got that Garmin edge 520 for under 300 with cadence, speed and HR sensors bundle, maybe less problems with their products. But that would of not do running so well and double the cost which steered me to Polar, or is it just buyers remorse?


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

When it comes to Garmin products they get a lot of stick. The difficulty is that their competitors products aren't any better either.

There's a third party program for getting your workout data out of Polar FlowSync that might be a workaround. If it won't sync in the first place this might not work though.

https://github.com/pcolby/bipolar

If you've built up a seperate third computer you could put the Windows 10 (90 day evaluation period) trial onto it. Your two main XP computers are unaffected, and although the third computer would need to be online you could leave it off your home network.

That is just an .iso download so you could install that temporarily, try the Polar M400 and Polar FlowSync to see if it will work with a newer version of windows, and then wipe the computer clean again afterwards.

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

WR304 said:


> When it comes to Garmin products they get a lot of stick. The difficulty is that their competitors products aren't any better either.
> 
> There's a third party program for getting your workout data out of Polar FlowSync that might be a workaround. If it won't sync in the first place this might not work though.
> 
> ...


Windows 10 isn't free anymore? Hmph.

I think some of Garmin's competitors are starting to catch up. Maybe not at the high end of things, but certainly at the low end of the price scale, a number of Garmin's competitors are equal to or better than what Garmin is offering.

You do occasionally have to take a little bit of a leap to be a crash test dummy on some of these products, though. Either they're brand new, or they have low exposure, or something along those lines, which means it can be more difficult to get information about them. It can also be helpful to get a telephone contact with someone at the company for tough cases similar to this one if you're having a difficult time getting the help you need via e-mail.

I remember back when I had a Garmin Edge 705. A firmware update I installed right before a trip bricked my GPS. I was bringing my laptop, anyway, so I could store photos from my trip, so I brought the GPS and I talked to Garmin tech support a couple of times while I was in Hawaii and tried to get my 705 revived, to no avail. Garmin did send me a replacement device after I got home. And it may be that grumpy's got a lemon device. It happens. Will Polar fix this? Remains to be seen. Hopefully they take care of him.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Once in earlier life, I did live few miles from Polar headquarters, I remember that once I missed my bus stop to some meeting and ended up to bus stop that was close to Polar HQ, living there now would be handy, I could just storm into their office, in friendly manner of course 


I know bipolar, it gets data from Polar flow sync software, but as flow sync authentication fails it refuses to do much of anything really, I can give factory reset to M400 and that's about it, reset is not helping thing to work any better. 

My M400 could be lemon indeed as I don't think there has been firmware that has prevented watch to work at all. Activity tracking works and fitness test, but it crashes at workout menu, there has been firmware that has crashed at certain situations, but if I remember correctly it was not rendering watch useless to this extent. 

Windows 10 is free if you have Win 7 or Win 8 where to upgrade, so evaluation version might work of course, but did you guess that it won't be quite that easy? 

I don't think this machine has a DVD drive that can burn DVD discs, this works perfectly fine but is made at 2006 and it says DVD-ROM at drive door. 
I know that these old machines of mine can't boot from USB stick, so there are challenges with evaluation version approach. 

I don't understand why software has to be changed so quickly when good old machines still work just fine  
I do have newer machines, but those were so slow and broke down that I gave up with those, ones that work are running Linux but still hopefully slow, even one has P8600 Cpu and many gigabytes of memory, still slower than good old NX6110. 

I might have one barely working machine and Vista disc for that (it is running cat camera surveillance on Linux), maybe I could replace Linux in that with Vista, that might be easiest thing to do, but I don't fancy rebuilding that Linux system. 

Polar Flow Sync actually works in Linux with Wine, but USB connection to watch is not working as it is not supported by Wine, so I would need to install Vista to that machine. 

Or I could get empty DVD discs someplace online, I could try to download Win10 with Linux in that P8600 machine and install Win10 there as I doubt other NX6110 with only 512MB are really capable for Win10, but it still is bit much of work.

Still it might be easier to ask if I could make new profile to neighbor's machine which I have fixed last summer. 

Well, if no reply from polar tomorrow, I contact seller and have their opinion on this mess.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Earlier today I did call Polar as there was still no reply to my mail and I thought I rather deal with issue directly with Polar instead of seller at middle.

There was no solution to issue, but I did send data to them and they are looking this issue.

One problem they noticed was that FlowSync is not asking M400 to be connected, but connects out immediately and then gives SSL error, having tested with two machines there is no difference.

They thought that M400 itself is perhaps a lemon, but FlowSync issue needs to be solved and it was agreed that firmware update is worth to try. 

Sadly it was bit late until I could contact then (big snowfall again, 3rd in this week), so my reply to them got send after working hours, it might be that next week there is more information again as they might not work at Saturday. 

Anyway issue is something unheard of, which for me is normal, if I have some issue with software it always tends to be that infamous unheard of issue. 

It is very interesting problem, why it happens on two machines, both running XP but nothing same about XP installs, same hardware though and why software operates different way that in should, why it tries to connect when it should not and why it is not asking to M400 to be plugged in?

There could be common namer/something similar between two machines, but other runs highly customized XP, while other has fresh plain standard install with all the updates, yet issue remains the same. Logically thinking only common is FlowSync in both machines, but could there be something related to hardware.

Maybe I set up desktop machine and test there too, if result is the same, then there is only FlowSync and method to connect into internet that are same, also OS, but instead of HP customized oem winXP it is retail version. 

Still haven't got time to try that Vista for junk Acer, so that is interesting to test out too, possibility to test out would be, could broken M400 mess up with some registry that is not cleared in uninstall. 

Interesting to see what they figure out or if they figure out cause of issue, my bet is still bug in software, but as always one has to keep open mind in troubleshooting and try unthinkable.

e: I decided to test garage computer, it 5F in a garage, but who cares, we are diagnosing problem here. Install did go about the same, but when I launch FlowSync software it acts differently, there is no rotating small arrows and FlowSync actually asks to connect Polar device to computer, it really works there. 
Why it works, I have no clue, I need to compare that garage computer and laptops and find what is so different between and what is same between two HP laptops with complete different XP installs. 
Garage computer don't have even updates done to it, or maybe that is the reason why it works, very interesting indeed. 

Some incompatibility with hardware/driver or perhaps with HP customizations to XP, there are other things too possible, data execution bit, or perhaps problem is in Bonjour service and something in these HP machines.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

So today I got reply to my email to polar and it did not say much more than what website says, but as I have already case number and I have send information to Polar, it does not matter. 

I'm just waiting them to get back with some ideas.

Perhaps it is issue with older hardware/hardware drivers, which has weird effect on how FlowSync operates. FlowSync never shows screen with information that I should connect M400, when on 3rd computer (which is not NX6110) FlowSync shows such screen. 

Also FlowSync tries to connect internet on NX6110 immediately when started and I think it did not do that on desktop. 

Updated BIOS, put Dell's Intel chipset drivers on these HP machines, removed FlowSync with Revo uninstaller, removed manually M400 from known USB devices in windows registry via regedit, did force uninstall with revo uninstaller to remove all traces of FlowSync and some things can't even remember, but no change. 

With XP that is in desktop machine it works without a glitch though, but it is well below freezing in garage so it would be nice to have it working on laptop too. 

Or perhaps I have to invest to some BT smart capable Android thing which I have to do in 1 to 2 years anyway in order to pay bills etc. Would be easier than solving this NX6110 issue, still it troubles not to be able to solve problem with software, surely there has to be some solution, but bit hard to find out which it might be. 

Good thing is I could use garage computer to update firmware on M400 and it started working, so I can actually use it now, Flow website has quite nice features and I feel that I get quite a lot from the M400, so I'm quite happy with it now already.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

That's good that it's finally working.

You could always plug the Polar M400 in in the cold garage, and then remote desktop to the garage computer from indoors where it is warm.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

WR304 said:


> That's good that it's finally working.
> 
> You could always plug the Polar M400 in in the cold garage, and then remote desktop to the garage computer from indoors where it is warm.


No need really as I just need to fire up the computer, plug it in, it takes not much more than 2 minutes to sync and then I can evacuate into warmer area with M400.

Website works with laptop too and laptop does charge M400, so it is not so much trouble, but doing that daily might get annoying and mobile app would keep things synced all the time I guess. See, I'm just trying to find good excuse to get nice 10" LTE tablet here as I know it is not long when I need to get one 

Yesterday I fixed one guy's issue with his computer, it had Windows 10, I decided that I don't need that kind, so I can save in computer upgrade and get tablet and some keyboard, should work fine with Polar and paying bills.


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## grumpy old biker (Jul 29, 2014)

Polar gave up, after providing same standard instruction sets few times.

I found out why FlowSync is not working, their "easy" automatic installation of device driver for Polar product is not installing anything and as I requested driver package to install that manually it was denied. 

Of course it is understandable, I have at least some way to use M400 now, there is only money to be wasted from their point of view, but I kind of like solve problems and it bothers when problem cannot be solved.

There is something in HP NX6110 hardware or HP delivered Windows XP in it, that causes FlowSync installation to fail when installing those device drivers. 

So SSL error can be because of "Windows driver package - Polar Electro Oy Net" missing from Add/Remove programs list. Of course it can be separate problem too, but there is not knowing because I don't have access to that driver package.

I did unpack their FlowSync installer though, but there is one part using Zlib compression that I could not extract yet, not sure if I'm willing to spent too much time with that, but it might be possible to hack open and take driver package out from it, might need to write a program to do it though. 

I just love these automatic do it all for you automatically kind of solutions, when they don't work it is really difficult to fix compared to some traditional ways of doing things, like having user manually to install driver package, it would at least work. 

Another finding from all this is that using Bluetooth Smart capable tablet or phone computer thing would do syncing really smooth, compared to booting computer, plugging 3g dongle to computer, connecting watch in with cable and syncing.


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