# The problem with disrespectful, ignorant motorists.



## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

So wondering if anyone else has this issue. Motorists, strictly people in cars and pickup trucks screaming and beeping crap like "There's a sidewalk for a reason, or get off the ****in road."


Now I'm not sure about anyone else, but here in NC, a bike is considered a vehicle. Subject to the same rights and laws as motorists. Not to mention in most places, there's ordinances that prohibit bicycles on sidewalks. 

I think the DMV and councils should make a new law that prohibits drivers from getting their license if they cannot respect bicyclists. 

Also, the speed limit in town is 20 mph. A bike can easily reach that. Not sure why the rush when you can't go legally faster than 20 in town . 
Lastly, it's sad other riders, be it sportbikes, Harley Davidsons , metric cruisers , other bicycles or Enduro Dirtbikes have more respect for bicyclists than people that drive do.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It’s a national or international problem. 

I’ve lived in IL, GA, OR, NY, VA, and CO. Experienced it in all of those states. Had death threats in several of them, guns pulled on me in two.

Nothing funnier than being called a “bum” while riding a bike worth more than the car the driver is operating. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

They think they own the road but they don't. Really....isn't it part of the drivers license test to obey all signs? Which includes bike lanes and share the road.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

get used to it.

1) always ride the bike as though every driver is out there specifically to kill you.

2) don't worry about it too much that it paralyzes you and prevents riding though

if you cannot 'get over it' just don't ride a bike on roads.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> &#8230;Nothing funnier than being called a "bum" while riding a bike worth more than the car the driver is operating.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My favorite is: you fu&$ing ******!!! Are ******* particularly fond of Lycra? Or bicycles? What about a guy riding a bike makes a person think: that guy's a ***?

Makes me laugh every time.


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## bedwards1000 (May 31, 2011)

You are preaching to the choir. I think generally most drivers are fine but the bad ones really stand out. Don't feel bad, it is the same way about cyclists. People that hate cyclists complain that we all blow through red lights and don't follow traffic rules. Because the ones that do act like that stand out.

For the most part I feel sorry for the A-holes that yell and scream at me because they have such tiny little brains and life must be pretty challenging for them. I also think of them t-boning a telephone pole and dyeing because that would make the world a better place. I'm conflicted.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

bedwards1000 said:


> For the most part I feel sorry for the A-holes that yell and scream at me because they have such tiny little brains and life must be pretty challenging for them. I also think of them t-boning a telephone pole and dyeing because that would make the world a better place. I'm conflicted.


Lol!...I like that.


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Not that I expect anything to change because of it, but it is now illegal in Delaware to honk at cyclists except for imminent danger (or some legal phrase like that).

All things considered, drivers here seem to be pretty respectful around me when riding.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*As long as drivers view bikes as "toys" and anyone other than a child or racer*

on a bike a "loser" they're going to be assholes to the remaining bulk of cyclists out there. With horrible traffic riding a bikes the way to go.


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## 36Miles (Nov 6, 2016)

I have more problems with bikers who don't follow traffic laws than I ever have with cars. Too many run red lights, stop signs, and don't follow any traffic rules when they are inconvenient. I make it a point to stop at the stop lights and signs, follow traffic laws, and pass the bikers who don't - it's fun to have goals when riding. ;-) 

The only problem around here I've had with cars is that some drive by too close, and some drift into the bike lane if there is a tight bend in the road, but I've learned to anticipate the latter. I shudder to think about living in a place where people yell out the window at you as you're riding, and feel for those of you who have to endure such abuse.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Yelling? I can deal with. The 1/2 full 16 oz Mountain Dew bottle thrown out of a 60 mph car, is a bit harder to fathom and deal with.


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## 36Miles (Nov 6, 2016)

BrianMc said:


> Yelling? I can deal with. The 1/2 full 16 oz Mountain Dew bottle thrown out of a 60 mph car, is a bit harder to fathom and deal with.


Ouch.


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

BrianMc said:


> Yelling? I can deal with. The 1/2 full 16 oz Mountain Dew bottle thrown out of a 60 mph car, is a bit harder to fathom and deal with.


This happened to me twice, ironically it was a Prius both times.


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## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

Ironically, after a complaint to city council and boone pd, and since I got the Race Bike, the bs has stopped. But some new risks occurred. such as drivers not using their directionals and almost cutting me off in the left turn lane. thank god for high performance disc brakes and good reaction time.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

LargeMan said:


> This happened to me twice, ironically it was a Prius both times.


Everyone who drives a Prius is a jerk. No exceptions.


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## slowpoker (Jun 4, 2008)

noapathy said:


> Everyone who drives a Prius is a jerk. No exceptions.


Saw this a few days ago. You dare tread on this guy? :eekster::smilewinkgrin:


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

slowpoker said:


> Saw this a few days ago. You dare tread on this guy? :eekster::smilewinkgrin:
> View attachment 1206272


No way, whoever is driving that car is completely unhinged!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

slowpoker said:


> Saw this a few days ago. You dare tread on this guy? :eekster::smilewinkgrin:
> View attachment 1206272


Tread on someone? Not my thing. This just confirms my initial statement that the driver's a jerk. BTW, why'd you cut off the rebel flag on the other side and the balls hanging from the trailer hitch? People love to label themselves.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Its a two way street. For the most part, drivers here are ok, but you do see bad examples, some ignorant. THe ones who yell, there is no fixing them. No matter what you do, they will be that way. LIke mentioned, there are lots of bad cyclists too. I'll admit to not being an angel all the time, but when I commute I adhere pretty strongly to the rules. If I come to a light I stop, and if its in traffic, I stop behind the car, I do not go around. I don't get to my destination any faster, and I know it annoys drivers that passed you to have to do it again. It does tick me off when people rush to cut a turn in front of you. They save, what, 5 seconds? 
Anyway, I only recently resumed occasional commuting and its been fairly pleasant so far. Only observation was lots of cars running red lights. Actually I think mopeds are the worst. We get lots of tourists, and fair number of punks. By law they share the same area on roads as bicycles, but certainly do not go at the same pace as bicycles.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

Ugh, imagine my horror yesterday encountering 50 mopeds in all their buzzing stinky glory on my weekend road ride. I can pretty much guarantee 49 of those were illegal, the 1 because kid just got it and didnt have time/money to go get illegal mods done.


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## adaycj (Sep 30, 2009)

36Miles said:


> I have more problems with bikers who don't follow traffic laws than I ever have with cars. Too many run red lights, stop signs, and don't follow any traffic rules when they are inconvenient. I make it a point to stop at the stop lights and signs, follow traffic laws, and pass the bikers who don't - it's fun to have goals when riding. ;-)
> 
> The only problem around here I've had with cars is that some drive by too close, and some drift into the bike lane if there is a tight bend in the road, but I've learned to anticipate the latter. I shudder to think about living in a place where people yell out the window at you as you're riding, and feel for those of you who have to endure such abuse.


Yes, this always comes up. It really doesn't matter though. It isn't an excuse for the small percentage of car, truck, and motorcycles that generally go all sorts of crazy on cyclists.


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## adaycj (Sep 30, 2009)

127.0.0.1 said:


> get used to it. ...
> 
> if you cannot 'get over it' just don't ride a bike on roads.


This is pretty much where I am at. Sad but true.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

36Miles said:


> I have more problems with bikers who don't follow traffic laws than I ever have with cars. Too many run red lights, stop signs, and don't follow any traffic rules when they are inconvenient. I make it a point to stop at the stop lights and signs, follow traffic laws, and pass the bikers who don't - it's fun to have goals when riding. ;-)
> 
> The only problem around here I've had with cars is that some drive by too close, and some drift into the bike lane if there is a tight bend in the road, but I've learned to anticipate the latter. I shudder to think about living in a place where people yell out the window at you as you're riding, and feel for those of you who have to endure such abuse.


Studies have shown that cyclist break the law at pretty much the same rate as motorist. But honestly, I probably break the law more on my bike if you take out speeding, plus the fact that I sometimes ride on the sidewalk, which is illegal where I am. But me running a stop sign out in the country when there are no cars present doesn't seem so bad compared to cars that follow a cyclist too closely or drift into the bike lane.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

Everyone rationalizes their own illegal moves as reasonable bending of unjust rules, and everyone else's as lethally dangerous criminality.

Which brings us to motorists who, for instance, see the speed limit as a *minimum*, and advertise that belief in the comments sections.

Or bend themselves into thinking that a bike stopping and them proceeding through a empty-streets red light is dangerous, whereas them hitting the gas on a rush-hour yellow-red with left turners queued is just best practices.

Here, you guys might appreciate this:






I've got hours of this kind of crap saved, and I'm not sure why.


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## InlawBiker (Aug 19, 2009)

I stopped getting mad at rude motorists a while ago. So long as I'm not in danger I don't really care what anyone says to me anymore.

I have noticed in the cities where bicycles are much more common people are way more accommodating of bikes. At least out here in the liberal West. It's when I get into the suburbs when people yell at me especially guys in trucks. I think they truly believe only cars are allowed on the road.

Greg


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## InlawBiker (Aug 19, 2009)

InlawBiker said:


> I stopped getting mad at rude motorists a while ago. So long as I'm not in danger I don't really care what anyone says to me anymore.
> Greg


To follow up, US cities are way behind everybody else in terms of bicycle safety. We are a car lovin' country. We like our trucks and all-you-can-eat buffets. Bikes are for commies. (I'm being facetious). We were in Vancouver BC recently, they have separated bike lanes all over town there, just like it ought to be. Sometimes I can't believe the risk I put myself into in city traffic, but I gotta get home somehow.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

I stopped riding on the road a long time ago. Granted I only rode "in the road" when on a road bike. I never rode my mtb or BMX in the road. Even here in Socal with bike lanes everywhere it still seems to be too high of a risk factor. Consider that often times there are no right turn lanes here, the bike lane becomes the right turn lane at an intersection. Couple that with the enormous amount of people out here who seem to be far more interested in what's going on with their phones than where their cars are headed. . . .


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

ghettocruiser said:


> Everyone rationalizes their own illegal moves as reasonable bending of unjust rules, and everyone else's as lethally dangerous criminality.
> 
> Which brings us to motorists who, for instance, see the speed limit as a *minimum*, and advertise that belief in the comments sections.
> 
> ...


Man, it is scary that we function at all as a society.


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## InlawBiker (Aug 19, 2009)

I average about 100 miles per week on a road bike. It keeps my legs in shape for MTB. Only about 10% of my riding is on proper streets, the rest is a dedicated no-motors trail. 

Over four years of commuting that's what, 2000 road miles of 20,000 total. I have come dangerously close to a serious encounter with a car twice in that time. So I've adjusted my street riding to be extremely, obnoxiously cautious on the road with cars.


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## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

Its funny....that I too experienced a prius in front of me. They truly are the slowest car ever. Even a mtb racer like myself that can snap on speed with 2.75 Horsepower; is faster than a prius.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

dragracer88 said:


> Its funny....that I too experienced a prius in front of me. They truly are the slowest car ever. Even a mtb racer like myself that can snap on speed with 2.75 Horsepower; is faster than a prius.


yeah I am gonna go with stop bullshitting us for once

you can create 2050.675 watts on demand ? that needs proof, bro

the best million-dollar-payroll pro cyclists specializing in road sprinting are considered amazing and untouchable when they make 1,619 watts. Cavendish peaks in 5 seconds -below- 1600 watts.

please, stop the outright foolish banter please.


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

ghettocruiser said:


> Everyone rationalizes their own illegal moves as reasonable bending of unjust rules, and everyone else's as lethally dangerous criminality.
> 
> Which brings us to motorists who, for instance, see the speed limit as a *minimum*, and advertise that belief in the comments sections.
> 
> ...


They are not unjust rules, just practical -they are constantly changing.

But the general observation that you reference is more due to people learning from doing, and dynamic responses to poorly planned or implemented rules or facilities, e.g., the dumb cross walk light in your video.

I drive to work on a street with one of these, and I could just as easily post a video with far more foolish pedestrians sprinting across the street through traffic and without using the light that so much money was wasted in providing.

When the light was first installed it had signs posted with it way up high at the light, that explained to drivers what to do. At first it was Vehicle must stop when yellow light flashes, and then proceed when red light flashes and crosswalk is clear. That was so incredibly stupid and confusing that they replaced the instructions with the typical, stop on red.

Proliferation of more of these will likely result in more of the behavior posted in the video-that is predictable. People don't just "obey" because the government decrees that they must. Although the latter is the nirvana for most urban planners and totalitarians.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

dragracer88 said:


> Its funny....that I too experienced a prius in front of me. They truly are the slowest car ever. Even a mtb racer like myself that can snap on speed with 2.75 Horsepower; is faster than a prius.


You're laying down 2,000 watts? :eekster: Impressive!

A Prius can do 0-60 in ~10 seconds, definitely no race car but plenty fast for getting to work IMO. Maybe just the drivers are really slow?


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## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

Im going by the calculations Ive done using a few online calculations. The highest cadence Ive done is around 130 RPM. And actually, saying I produce 2.75 HP isnt unbelievable. Ive read that trained athletes can produce up to 3 horsepower and no more.

But if you want real, devoted proof...you can meet me and take me to a dyno testing center. Quite a few articles Ive read and some videos Ive watched involve cyclists reporting they have gone to dragstrips and ran 36 mph in the eighth mile and here is a video of a bike dyno run.


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## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

Havent hit 60 yet. 48.0 mph so far....50 is the next goal. Wont stop until I hit 80. May have to wait until mammoth for anything faster. Not sure if I can hit the speed goal I want in NC. Its possible, but the mountain would have to be closed to motorized vehicles; so I can safely really lean into corners and not worry about oncoming traffic.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

dragracer88 said:


> Im going by the calculations Ive done using a few online calculations.


You miscalculated, no big deal. Get a power meter and you'll know for sure how many watts you're producing.

And yes, saying you can produce 2.75 horsepower is pretty unbelievable, if you could actually do that you'd have a multi-million dollar contract with team Sky.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

dragracer88 said:


> Im going by the calculations Ive done using a few online calculations. The highest cadence Ive done is around 130 RPM. And actually, saying I produce 2.75 HP isnt unbelievable. Ive read that trained athletes can produce up to 3 horsepower and no more.
> 
> But if you want real, devoted proof...you can meet me and take me to a dyno testing center. Quite a few articles Ive read and some videos Ive watched involve cyclists reporting they have gone to dragstrips and ran 36 mph in the eighth mile and here is a video of a bike dyno run.


it doesn't work that way.

you hook up strain gauges to your bike [like some of the actual products out
there specifically to measure a cyclist power production], and go on a tear

then report the data

no other obfuscation or discussion of your power output and dyno or speed or gearing or 'I did my calculations from the back of a cereal box' is going to suffice whatsoever.

please just post up what you CAN do and not some fantasy bull-crap, it is getting frickin weird.

---------


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> You're laying down 2,000 watts? :eekster: Impressive!
> 
> A Prius can do 0-60 in ~10 seconds, definitely no race car but plenty fast for getting to work IMO. Maybe just the drivers are really slow?


Completely off topic but the typical reason a Prius driver accelerated slowly is because they are using the electric motor. If they kick in the gas the cars have plenty of low speed power (instant electric torque plus gas motor). The thing is that a Prius is horribly boring to drive unless you play the mileage game.

Can be annoying but look at it this way, less air pollution for you to breath. I'll take a slow Prius any day over an oil burner.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dragracer88 (Apr 13, 2018)

Team Sky wont ever happen....just read up on them. Its a strict road biker team. I have a better chance of going pro with Giant Offroad Team or Specialized Factory Racing; when I earn it.

But ok...when I can dyno at a testing center....youll have your proof. a Dyno is good enough for calculating motorcycle, car and truck horsepower and torque output.....its good enough for official data for a MTB.

and Im sorry I couldnt find a friend that had paypal and that I havent used it in years myself. Kinda been busy and less focused on things I used to use. Cant blame me for that. Im sure everyone on here has something they used to use, but dont remember the login info anymore .


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

dragracer88 said:


> Team Sky wont ever happen....


lol, no kidding!


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

cjsb said:


> They are not unjust rules, just practical -they are constantly changing.
> 
> But the general observation that you reference is more due to people learning from doing, and dynamic responses to poorly planned or implemented rules or facilities, e.g., the dumb cross walk light in your video.
> 
> ...


There's no flashers. it's an unambiguous red light with the same legal status as the major intersection 400 feet to the west. All those cars were running a red light that had turned green in the other direction before they crossed the stop line.

No one runs the red light at the major intersection because there are dump trucks as cross traffic instead of bikes.

Signalized intersections are proliferating because traffic is doing the same. Toronto's motorists will continue to blame everyone but themselves.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Structure said:


> Completely off topic but the typical reason a Prius driver accelerated slowly is because they are using the electric motor. If they kick in the gas the cars have plenty of low speed power (instant electric torque plus gas motor). The thing is that a Prius is horribly boring to drive unless you play the mileage game.
> 
> Can be annoying but look at it this way, less air pollution for you to breath. I'll take a slow Prius any day over an oil burner.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I drove a Prius 3 and it was NOT a dog on electric power. I matted it and it goes if you want it to (yes the gas engine kicked in quick too, but initial torque was fine)


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

cjsb said:


> I drive to work on a street with one of these, and I could just as easily post a video with far more foolish pedestrians sprinting across the street through traffic and without using the light that so much money was wasted in providing.


Yep. I have a complication of that, too, but it's pretty short, as I don't drive much these days.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

dragracer88 said:


> Team Sky wont ever happen....just read up on them. Its a strict road biker team. I have a better chance of going pro with Giant Offroad Team or Specialized Factory Racing; when I earn it.
> 
> But ok...when I can dyno at a testing center....youll have your proof. a Dyno is good enough for calculating motorcycle, car and truck horsepower and torque output.....its good enough for official data for a MTB.
> 
> and Im sorry I couldnt find a friend that had paypal and that I havent used it in years myself. Kinda been busy and less focused on things I used to use. Cant blame me for that. Im sure everyone on here has something they used to use, but dont remember the login info anymore .


here is some more advice

a human can NOT use any typical 'dyno' to calculate anything unless this 'dyno' is in a human performance lab.

if you are using a motorcycle or automotive dyno, you are gonna use up all your power just to overcome inertia spin it up to where the dyno will actually start to record anything. and since it's gonna be FAR less than 2hp, the dyno won't record squat

for the love of god ----->go to a bike shop and borrow a bike with a watt meter<----- and prove us all wrong.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

InlawBiker said:


> Only about 10% of my riding is on proper streets, the rest is a dedicated no-motors trail.


We have those too.




_What? Troublemaking? Me?_


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## katsup (Jun 28, 2016)

ghettocruiser said:


> There's no flashers. it's an unambiguous red light with the same legal status as the major intersection 400 feet to the west. All those cars were running a red light that had turned green in the other direction before they crossed the stop line.


I have two similar intersections on my commute where the bike path crosses a major road. I have just learned to wait a couple of seconds after cars have the red to make sure they all stop. I see a car run it at least once every 2 weeks.

I see other cyclist and pedestrians run across when cars have the green just as often.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

If you ride offroad you dont have this problem


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

plummet said:


> If you ride offroad you dont have this problem


Most people don't have the luxury of commuting off road.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I ride about 300 miles a week. I see a lot of sketchy ****...pretty much daily.

Oh, and I can lay out some decent watts. I am light, so they are not big sprinter watts. But enough that even on flat ground I can out sprint most larger guys. And I hit a peak of about 1200w, I can produce 1 HP for about 20 seconds (though, I have never tested that to see if I can go longer). Unlikely you are producing 2.75...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Easy test:

Take the toaster challenge.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Harold said:


> Easy test:
> 
> Take the toaster challenge.


lol, just posted that a few minutes ago in general!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> lol, just posted that a few minutes ago in general!


I stoled it


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

I feel like he could have gotten two slices of toast out of that effort.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

I generally don't have problems, but I also know my place. The roads are for cars, no reason why a bike should take up an entire lane..... I either ride on the bike path, shoulder, or sidewalk. Or I'll SHARE the road and move out the way when a car comes. 

I think it's the cyclists who take up entire CAR lanes that make us all look bad.


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## trekkerman (Mar 27, 2018)

I was amazed at the courtesy that drivers showed in the Bentonville, Arkansas, area. At bike trail-road intersections, drivers screech to a stop to allow bikers to cross. Drivers also give bikes room and treat them with respect on roads. Maybe it's because many folks there ride too? I'm curious how that mindset developed and I wish it would spread.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> I generally don't have problems, but I also know my place. The roads are for cars, no reason why a bike should take up an entire lane..... I either ride on the bike path, shoulder, or sidewalk. Or I'll SHARE the road and move out the way when a car comes.
> 
> I think it's the cyclists who take up entire CAR lanes that make us all look bad.


Huh? They are "vehicle lanes" or simply "lanes." And cyclists (with some exceptions) have the same rights and responsibilities as people in motor vehicles. And a cyclist's "Place" is wherever the law allows him/her to be.

I'll add: In the past year or two, I find myself riding farther left than I used to. One, it gives me sort of a bailout to the right and 2) I've found that the more space I take up, the less likely someone is to try and "squeeze" past me when a car is coming from the opposite direction.

Maybe you need to go back to driver's ed.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

smartyiak said:


> Huh? They are "vehicle lanes" or simply "lanes." And cyclists (with some exceptions) have the same rights and responsibilities as people in motor vehicles. And a cyclist's "Place" is wherever the law allows him/her to be.
> 
> I'll add: In the past year or two, I find myself riding farther left than I used to. One, it gives me sort of a bailout to the right and 2) I've found that the more space I take up, the less likely someone is to try and "squeeze" past me when a car is coming from the opposite direction.
> 
> Maybe you need to go back to driver's ed.


All I know is, if I see some cyclist in the left hand turn lane, they should just have a**hole written on their lycra jersey.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> All I know is, if I see some cyclist in the left hand turn lane, they should just have a**hole written on their lycra jersey.


Even if they're turning left? From where should they turn left?


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

GKelley said:


> All I know is, if I see some cyclist in the left hand turn lane, they should just have a**hole written on their lycra jersey.


Wait? As opposed to?

So, you think they shouldn't ride legally?

I'm thinking you are confusing who the asshole is in this thread.

FYI, as a road rider who obeys the rules of the road, including using the left hand turn lane in a completely legal, common sense, and predictable manner, you are by default calling me an asshole.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

smartyiak said:


> Even if they're turning left? From where should they turn left?


They should be on the crosswalk.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

GKelley said:


> They should be on the crosswalk.


Problem solved:

"Add to Ignore List"

After reading his stupidity in another thread, he isn't worth my time anymore.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Dammit.. Now the lycra cult is mad at me...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> Dammit.. Now the lycra cult is mad at me...


I don't think anyone is mad...just surprised that anyone (cyclist or not) can be so dense.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

smartyiak said:


> I don't think anyone is mad...just surprised that anyone (cyclist or not) can be so dense.


I only act as how I expect others to act. You would never find me on a road slowing down the motor vehicles. I will gladly stay out of their way, because I know where I belong. There's plenty of room off the road for me not to be there.

To me, that is the respectful thing to do....


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

GKelley said:


> I generally don't have problems, but I also know my place. The roads are for cars, no reason why a bike should take up an entire lane..... I either ride on the bike path, shoulder, or sidewalk. Or I'll SHARE the road and move out the way when a car comes.
> 
> I think it's the cyclists who take up entire CAR lanes that make us all look bad.


seriously? This seems super trollish to me. This is a forum about bikes, and the rules of the road don't specify CAR only. They specify rules for all users and the set of courtesies that are legally to be used CAR=/<BIKE<PEDESTRIAN. Simple as that. Sidewalks in most municipalities are illegal for bikes to ride on, same with cross walks unless you are walking your bike. They are for pedestrians only, which being on a bike, a person is not.

Cyclists pay taxes through income, state and real estate taxes that support roads and so are afforded the rights to use the traffic lanes as long as the rules are followed. If there is no minimum speed limit specified a cyclist is just as entitled to take a traffic lane as any vehicle on the road (safety of doing so notwithstanding). If there is a minimum speed limit, as long as the cyclist can maintain it, no issues either.

I do suspect troll but also want to ensure that any user following this drivel from the google at least can see that what you have stated in your responses is unconditionally incorrect and not proper or legal advice as to how to commute.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

rockcrusher said:


> Cyclists pay taxes through income, state and real estate taxes that support roads and so are afforded the rights to use the traffic lanes as long as the rules are followed. If there is no minimum speed limit specified a cyclist is just as entitled to take a traffic lane as any vehicle on the road (safety of doing so notwithstanding).


Now this is the type of pretentious atittudes that I'm referring to. If you're gonna ride on the road, (that was designed for motor vehicles), it's not a good idea to impede traffic by being slower than them. There is a flow of traffic that needs to be followed, and these are set in place by the posted speed limits. Go the speed limit, or get off.

And BTW, "law" does not imply right or wrong. Laws are made for all kinds of different reasons. Some laws are made for power, some to generate currency, others for good intention or safety reasons. But in no way does the word law mean that all common sense should be discarded.

Common sense and societal standards says stay off the road if you cannot go the speed limit.

And somehow I'm the one with no respect?... I not only think about myself, I also think about the people I have to share the road with.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

GKelley said:


> Now this is the type of pretentious atittudes that I'm referring to. If you're gonna ride on the road, (that was designed for motor vehicles), it's not a good idea to impede traffic by being slower than them. There is a flow of traffic that needs to be followed, and these are set in place by the posted speed limits. Go the speed limit, or get off.
> 
> And BTW, "law" does not imply right or wrong. Laws are made for all kinds of different reasons. Some laws are made for power, some to generate currency, others for good intention or safety reasons. But in no way does the word law mean that all common sense should be discarded.
> 
> ...


dude I negged you already, I can't neg you any harder.

I said go back under your rock. well, do that, wouldya ?

you will have zero luck impressing us with your twisted view of how things -should be- in your mind.

we'll stick with what thoughtful LEGISLATION has already granted us.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

GKelley said:


> Now this is the type of pretentious atittudes that I'm referring to. If you're gonna ride on the road, (that was designed for motor vehicles), it's not a good idea to impede traffic by being slower than them. There is a flow of traffic that needs to be followed, and these are set in place by the posted speed limits. Go the speed limit, or get off.
> 
> And BTW, "law" does not imply right or wrong. Laws are made for all kinds of different reasons. Some laws are made for power, some to generate currency, others for good intention or safety reasons. But in no way does the word law mean that all common sense should be discarded.
> 
> ...


wow. Just wow. Good luck with riding the sidewalks.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Oh no.... Please don't neg me.... I mean. How will I sleep tonight? 

God forbid somebody starts a conversation about social observations and I give my input as both a driver and cyclist....

How dare I think about anybody but myself when on the road...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> Now this is the type of pretentious atittudes that I'm referring to. If you're gonna ride on the road, (that was designed for motor vehicles), it's not a good idea to impede traffic by being slower than them. There is a flow of traffic that needs to be followed, and these are set in place by the posted speed limits. Go the speed limit, or get off.
> 
> And BTW, "law" does not imply right or wrong. Laws are made for all kinds of different reasons. Some laws are made for power, some to generate currency, others for good intention or safety reasons. But in no way does the word law mean that all common sense should be discarded.
> 
> ...


This is the type of pretentious attitude that I'm referring to. You do understand that a "speed limit" is the maximum limit at which you can travel...anything over that and you are in violation of the law.

And, btw, "law" is generally created to address a societal need or to address a concern that society has found valuable. Societal standards have determined that laws to protect cyclists are valuable, so they exist. Since they exist, all users of roadways should follow them.

I'd like to think you're just trolling now...otherwise, I just have to shake my head.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

smartyiak said:


> This is the type of pretentious attitude that I'm referring to. You do understand that a "speed limit" is the maximum limit at which you can travel...anything over that and you are in violation of the law.
> 
> And, btw, "law" is generally created to address a societal need or to address a concern that society has found valuable. Societal standards have determined that laws to protect cyclists are valuable, so they exist. Since they exist, all users of roadways should follow them.
> 
> I'd like to think you're just trolling now...otherwise, I just have to shake my head.


By going slower than the posted speed limit, you're actually the one compromising others safety.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

GKelley said:


> Oh no.... Please don't neg me.... I mean. How will I sleep tonight?
> 
> God forbid somebody starts a conversation about social observations and I give my input as both a driver and cyclist....
> 
> How dare I think about anybody but myself when on the road...


you'll sleep in your isolated subsection of society in a box, where tools like you exist, while smartasses like myself who ride bikes -and lobby- steer the rest of society for the good of all cyclists

yeah, life is like that. thousands of us got the laws to be what they are. outliers keep trying to fight it but don't know how to access the tools and gain support. how does that work ?


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

FYI, before blocking this person, I did notice that this person also considers themself as a beginner rider who is on fireroads and sidewalks while learning. So...clearly not someone who is versed on legal use of cycling. And, sadly, not versed on the legal use of driving either.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

If you guys don't like what I have to say, that's just fine. I simply answered the question of why some motorists are disrespectful to cyclists. 

If people didn't act entitled because the "law" allows them to, then cyclists and drivers might just get along someday. 

Until then, expect to be treated as you treat others.

-I wonder how you people would react if you seen a motor vehicle on a bike path? lol


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

GKelley said:


> Oh no.... Please don't neg me.... I mean. How will I sleep tonight?
> 
> God forbid somebody starts a conversation about social observations and I give my input as both a driver and cyclist....
> 
> How dare I think about anybody but myself when on the road...


Good luck with this "social issue". Maybe later you can address the social issue of kidnapping. I mean there are laws but they are just for power. It is more of a social issue with kidnappings, if kids just stayed in their house, there wouldn't be a problem. Social for sure, too many kids.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

GKelley said:


> If you guys don't like what I have to say, that's just fine. I simply answered the question of why some motorists are disrespectful to cyclists.
> 
> If people didn't act entitled because the "law" allows them to, then cyclists and drivers might just get along someday.
> 
> ...


Holy **** dude. Law is the exact opposite of entitled:
en·ti·tled
inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/Submit
adjective
believing oneself to be inherently deserving of privileges or special treatment..

Law means you are legally provided something whether you want it or not.

You should probably understand what these 2 things mean before using the terms.
Check out the ebike forum if you want to see how people react to illegal ebike use on trails and bike paths. Illegal being the operative word.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

rockcrusher said:


> Holy **** dude. Law is the exact opposite of entitled:
> en·ti·tled
> inˈtīdld,enˈtīdld/Submit
> adjective
> ...


People pervert the definition of law everyday for selfish reasons. That's just one of many of its flaws. You guys make that very evident.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> People pervert the definition of law everyday for selfish reasons. That's just one of many of its flaws. You guys make that very evident.


How does following the law "pervert" it? What you're attempting to do is the very definition of "pervert." You're seeking to pervert lawful acts into a justification for not not following them and endangering others.

Perhaps, in addition to supplemental driver's education, you need a dictionary.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

GKelley said:


> People pervert the definition of law everyday for selfish reasons. That's just one of many of its flaws. You guys make that very evident.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

GKelley said:


> People pervert the definition of law everyday for selfish reasons. That's just one of many of its flaws. You guys make that very evident.


You win the internets today. Delete your account.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

GKelley said:


> They should be on the crosswalk.


Do what I put in the negative rep that I left you.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

GKelley said:


> Oh no.... Please don't neg me.... I mean. How will I sleep tonight?
> 
> God forbid somebody starts a conversation about social observations and I give my input as both a driver and cyclist....
> 
> How dare I think about anybody but myself when on the road...


Do you think about bikers when they are on the road or just yourself in your car?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

*The problem with disrespectful, ignorant motorists. 2*

Call the cops!
Some member might die soon.
I have never seen 2 red dots reputation, he is under attack.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I guess he doesn't live in Amish country. He's definitely demonstrated the title of this thread.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

chazpat said:


> I guess he doesn't live in Amish country. He's definitely demonstrated the title of this thread.


Southeast, Michigan, much of which is a suburban sprawl, car-centric stripmalled **** hole of a place. No wonder he doesn't know how to act on the road-driving in that kind of environment often encourages or even rewards sociopathic behavior.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

sfgiantsfan said:


> Do you think about bikers when they are on the road or just yourself in your car?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Of course I think about the bikers when I'm driving. And being a biker myself makes me even more aware of them.

The difference between me and some of these other posters, is I care more about harmony on the road when on my bike, more than I do about hogging an entire lane that I don't need, and pissing off motorists just because the "law" says I can do so. I'll happily ride on the shoulder, because there's plenty of room there. I don't only think about myself.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Though I'm familiar with the rights of cyclists to 'take a lane' and have no problem with it in many cases, I also agree that just because you can doesn't always mean you should. I've sat behind riders travelling two abreast having a casual conversation while rollling along at 20mph under the speed limit with a line of cars stuck behind them and no safe passing zones for miles. Those type of riders are indeed assholes.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

33red said:


> Call the cops!
> Some member might die soon.
> I have never seen 2 red dots reputation, he is under attack.


lol. I completely underestimated the sensitivity levels of this forum culture. 

I share a few observations and everybody flips out, like the world is ending.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

GKelley said:


> lol. I completely underestimated the sensitivity levels of this forum culture.


just go ride, smile, life is good!


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

33red said:


> just go ride, smile, life is good!


Will be doing that after work.:thumbsup:


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## IPunchCholla (Dec 8, 2013)

GKelley said:


> lol. I completely underestimated the sensitivity levels of this forum culture.
> 
> I share a few observations and everybody flips out, like the world is ending.


Yeah. While I don't agree with you, neg repping seems uncalled for.

Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

Looks like some folks from the comments section of the newspaper have found their way to mtbr...

I'm not sure what additional credibility people are trying to establish by saying "I bike *and* drive". Yes. Who doesn't? I drive far more miles in a year than I ride, despite everyone I know thinking of me pretty much exclusively as a cyclist.

Personally, I can't remember ever being "stuck" behind a bike or group of bikes for more than a couple of seconds while driving. Yet I've been stuck behind every possible type of motor vehicle that would never, ever, think about getting off the road to let me by.

A while back I talked to a backhoe operator on one of my sites who had just driven across the entire city at 30kph on major roads.... on a vehicle with no plates. He said motorists sometimes honk, but they never deliberately pass him close.

Strange that their bravery seems to wane like that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

IPunchCholla said:


> Yeah. While I don't agree with you, neg repping seems uncalled for.
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


Read his posts in the commuting forum. That's where he earned his rep.

Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ghettocruiser said:


> Looks like some folks from the comments section of the newspaper have found their way to mtbr...
> 
> I'm not sure what additional credibility people are trying to establish by saying "I bike *and* drive". Yes. Who doesn't. I drive far more miles in a year than I ride, despite everyone I know thinking of more pretty much exclusively as a cyclist.
> 
> ...


Exactly^


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

After a couple years riding the streets in a regular basis, I have yet to have a negative experience with a driver. Maybe because I respect them. 

Although, I did have one negative experience with a cyclist. Go figure.... I was riding on the shoulder going against traffic. Something that the lycra crew refers to as "salmoning". This guy proceeded to flip me off, and cry something like, "wrong way a**hole!" lol. It actually took me by surprise because I never seen a fellow biker be such a baby about such a thing.

The thing is, there was plenty of room for both of us on this shoulder. My course did not interfere with his in the least of way, but he still got all upset over what I was doing. The entire reason why I ride against traffic, is because drivers are too distracted these days. The crazy thing is, on the exact road that this incident occurred, a county Sheriff just got killed on by a hit and run driver, while jogging on the shoulder.. I also have a friend who was in a neck brace last summer because he was riding on the shoulder with traffic, and also got nailed. If I was to continue to follow the advice of the cycling community, I could be next. I'd rather see what's coming at me. 

So anyways, that's been my experience so far. Drivers have been nicer to me than cyclists have. lol!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

GKelley said:


> After a couple years riding the streets in a regular basis, I have yet to have a negative experience with a driver. Maybe because I respect them.


I commuted daily for years, in a few different states and it was an extremely rare occasion that I had any negative experience with motorists, like almost never.

I took lanes every day because it's the safest (and fastest) way to mix with traffic. Never an issue.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> I commuted daily for years, in a few different states and it was an extremely rare occasion that I had any negative experience with motorists, like almost never.
> 
> I took lanes every day because it's the safest (and fastest) way to mix with traffic. Never an issue.


I'm assuming you weren't slowing them down then. What I gather, is that it's the ones who don't care about the other drivers that end up with the bad experiences.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

GKelley said:


> .... I was riding on the shoulder going against traffic.


That is by far the most dangerous way to travel on a bicycle. Also it can endanger other cyclists so I'm not surprised the guy flipped you off.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

GKelley said:


> I'm assuming you weren't slowing them down then.


I might of cost a driver a second or 2 now and then.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> That is by far the most dangerous way to travel on a bicycle. Also it can endanger other cyclists so I'm not surprised the guy flipped you off.


How did I endanger him? There was plenty of room for both of us. And I took the outside route out of courtesy.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> I was riding on the shoulder going against traffic.
> ...The entire reason why I ride against traffic, is because drivers are too distracted these days...


Now I have to believe you're just trolling...b/c no one can possibly be this dopey. There are, literally, studies that show that salmoning is more dangerous.

Do you not wear a seatbelt b/c your friend was in a car fire and go massive burns???


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

smartyiak said:


> Now I have to believe you're just trolling...b/c no one can possibly be this dopey. There are, literally, studies that show that salmoning is more dangerous.
> 
> Do you not wear a seatbelt b/c your friend was in a car fire and go massive burns???


How is it more dangerous? What did I do to endanger him?

Here you are making these assumptions, and you don't even know how big the shoulder was..

The only thing that got hurt that day, was the cyclists ego.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> no safe passing zones


Perhaps that is why they took the lane?

That is why you take a lane, when there isn't safe room for a pass. It discourages drivers from making an unsafe pass. That is how the law is written.



ghettocruiser said:


> despite everyone I know thinking of me pretty much exclusively as a cyclist.


I've got 10,000 cycling miles so far this year...and about 3000 driving miles (which is WAY more than normal for me)


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

GKelley said:


> How is it more dangerous? What did I do to endanger him?


I agree with the poster above, you have to be trolling.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> I agree with the poster above, you have to be trolling.


No, all this really happened, and nobody got hurt. Crazy right?!? lol


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Harold said:


> Read his posts in the commuting forum. That's where he earned his rep.
> 
> Sent from my VS995 using Tapatalk


Yea, the lycra cult isn't very happy with me.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

GKelley said:


> Yea, the lycra cult isn't very happy with me.


That's definitely the issue.

Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

IPunchCholla said:


> Yeah. While I don't agree with you, neg repping seems uncalled for.
> 
> Sent from my moto x4 using Tapatalk


His neg rep is from calling road riders assholes for riding as the law says they should. Basically, if you are on a bike, you should be on the sidewalk, in crosswalks, or just driving.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

OK then just silly


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

GKelley said:


> How is it more dangerous? What did I do to endanger him?
> 
> Here you are making these assumptions, and you don't even know how big the shoulder was..
> 
> The only thing that got hurt that day, was the cyclists ego.





J.B. Weld said:


> I agree with the poster above, you have to be trolling.


At second glance, I've come around to GKelley's way of thinking. This one time, as a young lad, I got my hands on a Calloway Corvette...being young and stupid, I got it up to 155mph on a public roadway.

Since no one got hurt that day...driving 155mph is safe!

...reductio ad absurdum


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

GKelley said:


> Yea, the lycra cult isn't very happy with me.


I think the folks in the commuter forum are less likely than most on mtbr in general to be wearing lycra. You might want to reassess yourself a bit.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sidewalk said:


> Perhaps that is why they took the lane?
> 
> That is why you take a lane, when there isn't safe room for a pass. It discourages drivers from making an unsafe pass. That is how the law is written.


There were countless opportunities for the riders to pull off and alleviate the jam-up they were causing. There also would have been room to pass if they were riding single file and keeping to the shoulder. When I commuted for a few years, if I realized I was holding up cars, I would make it a point to try to give them an opportunity to pass safely when I could. Common courtesy IMHO. To just sit out there and hold everyone up purposely when you could easily avoid doing that is a straight-up dick move that serves no purpose.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> There were countless opportunities for the riders to pull off and alleviate the jam-up they were causing. There also would have been room to pass if they were riding single file and keeping to the shoulder. When I commuted for a few years, if I realized I was holding up cars, I would make it a point to try to give them an opportunity to pass safely when I could. Common courtesy IMHO. To just sit out there and hold everyone up purposely when you could easily avoid doing that is a straight-up dick move that serves no purpose.


I'm not there to see, so I will assume you are right.

But, I'm also one of those guys who actually uses turn outs in my car to let faster drivers pass me. Crazy, I know. And I always forget that there are people out there that don't.


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## bedwards1000 (May 31, 2011)

Assuming you aren't trolling...No it isn't crazy. The last thing a cyclist wants to see is another cyclist coming at him in the narrow space he is supposed to be in. Since you are going the wrong way they are going to attempt to treat you like a pedestrian since they can still move with traffic and you can't. Taking the outside just confused things more. He could have been more courteous in his communication toward you but it appears that you don't want to hear that the law makes sense.

Damn, I missed the last troll claiming he could ride at 2.75hp..


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Sidewalk said:


> His neg rep is from calling road riders assholes for riding as the law says they should. Basically, if you are on a bike, you should be on the sidewalk, in crosswalks, or just driving.


That's not at all what I said. You might want to read slower next time to avoid some hurt feelings, and going to other threads to take them off topic.

Hope you feel better soon.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sidewalk said:


> I'm not there to see, so I will assume you are right.
> 
> But, I'm also one of those guys who actually uses turn outs in my car to let faster drivers pass me. Crazy, I know. And I always forget that there are people out there that don't.


Yeah, I regularly pull aside for other cars too. 
You and I well might be the only ones left on the planet that do!

I'm usually very patient with people on bikes, but I'm also not going to go around pretending that there are no assholes turning pedals out there. Luckily, dirt seems to help filter them out pretty well.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

bedwards1000 said:


> Assuming you aren't trolling...No it isn't crazy. The last thing a cyclist wants to see is another cyclist coming at him in the narrow space he is supposed to be in. Since you are going the wrong way they are going to attempt to treat you like a pedestrian since they can still move with traffic and you can't. Taking the outside just confused things more. He could have been more courteous in his communication toward you but it appears that you don't want to hear that the law makes sense.
> 
> Damn, I missed the last troll claiming he could ride at 2.75hp..


Again, you have no idea how wide that shoulder was. It was practically another lane. And I took the right side, that was near the road ad we passed. That is both the natural way to cross each other, and it put me in more closer to the traffic than he was., which made sense, because I was the one who could see them coming. I put his safety in full regard.

So knowing this information. Tell me again how I endangered him?


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## bedwards1000 (May 31, 2011)

GKelley said:


> Again, you have no idea how wide that shoulder was. It was practically another lane. And I took the right side, that was near the road ad we passed. That is both the natural way to cross each other, and it put me in more closer to the traffic than he was.
> 
> So knowing this information. Tell me again how I endangered him?


Well, you weren't following the rules of the road that are designed to keep people safe. You forced him to make a decision about your actions that he shoulnd't have needed to make.

You're right, I wasn't there and maybe he was in no danger. But I can see why you pissed him off. Hell, you are pissing people off here and your are thousands of miles away from them. LOL.

I suggest you ride with traffic or stick to trails.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

GKelley said:


> That's not at all what I said.


is it? You realize that the commuting forum is for discussions about riding bicycles as transportation, right? A number of people in that forum don't even own a car, or if they do, ride their bike more frequently than they drive. You realize that EVERYONE who posts in there regularly turns left from the left hand turn lane, at least part of the time, right? You called EVERYONE in there an asshole with your statement.



GKelley said:


> All I know is, if I see some cyclist in the left hand turn lane, they should just have a**hole written on their lycra jersey.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

bedwards1000 said:


> Well, you weren't following the rules of the road that are designed to keep people safe. You forced him to make a decision about your actions that he shoulnd't have needed to make.
> 
> You're right, I wasn't there and maybe he was in no danger. But I can see why you pissed him off. Hell, you are pissing people off here and your are thousands of miles away from them. LOL.
> 
> I suggest you ride with traffic or stick to trails.


Well if he cannot make the common decision to stay on the right as we pass each other, that's on him and his critical thinking skills. Nothing to do with me, if got got upset because I didn't follow his fanatical protocols. Nothing I did made him change course, so nothing was there to be upset about.

I care about my safety more than I do about satisfying his ego.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

A cyclist who does not respect the impact potential of a motor vehicle is not riding with enough defensive attitude. However, not asserting appropriate rights to use the road or riding in an unpredicatable fashion can increase the danger.

Local laws and traffic situations vary. I have the right to take the lane on a road posted at 55 and often driven at over 60. (Note that posted speed limits are the maximum speed. In Indiana there is no minimum speed. However we must allow traffic by if there are 4 or more vehicles behind us. So I am entirely legal to ride it at 15-20 mph. Legal but not safe.) I have an 8' wide shoulder to ride. That is under law not to be used as a traffic lane by a vehicle (which the bicycle qualifies as). However self preservation and traffic flow (consideration of others) suggest this is a wise thing to do. I have had no interference whatsoever from police in doing this though observed many times and even had an officer and cruiser act as a block while I repaired a tire. 

Salmoning is a different sort of breach of traffic law. It is dangerous to both cyclists, and other than municipalitles where there are marked bike lanes forcing this, I think it is illegal in every state. It puts two cyclists abreast of each other briefly, potentially forcing traffic to the left even more than usual. This is even more dangerous for the legal rider if the salmoning rider is closest the curb or shoulder and he is forcing the legal rider more into harms way than himself though he can see overtaking traffic better. So the "a$$hole" moniker has some basis not only in law but also in the lack of consideration of the safty of the cyclist who is riding legally. I have pulled over to the curb and stopped to force the salmoner around me when the traffic was too much for two cyclysts to pass with reasonable clearance. Why should I be forced to stop for safety's sake when the other cyclist is doing somthing so inconsiderate, unsafe, and illegal? 


I also dislike salmoning riders as a motorist, because it the cyclist won't obey that simple rule of the road, they are completely untrustworthy IMHO. That has been born ou by sudden changes to the other side of the road. Mirrors are cheap. Being unpredictable to other road users is very bad manners beyond the law being broken. 

The use of a crosswalk for a left turn would make sense under heavy traffic. I can't remember a situation warranting such an action at my usual left turn lane and there is no crosswalk there so I am safer in the lane than crossing as a pedestrian. (I have NEVER in 18 years observed a pedestrian at that intersection.) 

ONE point Missed is that how we need to ride is how we need to ride in our locality. Being considerate, predictable, not forcing others to take on more bodily risk, and ignore the law ONLY when it is the safest option, has worked for me. Your mileage may vary.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Harold said:


> is it? You realize that the commuting forum is for discussions about riding bicycles as transportation, right? A number of people in that forum don't even own a car, or if they do, ride their bike more frequently than they drive. You realize that EVERYONE who posts in there regularly turns left from the left hand turn lane, at least part of the time, right? You called EVERYONE in there an asshole with your statement.


Well if it makes you feel better, I'll reiterate.

Just because a biker is on the road doesn't make them an a**hole in my eyes. It's the ones who are slower than traffic, but refuse to move. Or go into a situation like that, know they'll slow things down.

That's all.

No reason for you to think I automatically hate all commuters, just because you disagree with one little statement, and took it way out of context.

EDIT: Dang it. Why is this in this forum? Didn't even see that....


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## bedwards1000 (May 31, 2011)

GKelley said:


> Well if he cannot make the common decision to stay on the right as we pass each other, that's on him and his critical thinking skills. Nothing to do with me, if got got upset because I didn't follow his fanatical protocols. Nothing I did made him change course, so nothing was there to be upset about.
> 
> I care about my safety more than I do about satisfying his ego.


Never mind, you are a troll.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

BrianMc said:


> A cyclist who does not respect the impact potential of a motor vehicle is not riding with enough defensive attitude. However, not asserting appropriate rights to use the road or riding in an unpredicatable fashion can increase the danger.


They speeds we were both riding at, made for a VERY predictable situation. It's common sense to pass on the right is it not?.....


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

BrianMc said:


> Salmoning is a different sort of breach of traffic law. It is dangerous to both cyclists, and other than municipalitles where there are marked bike lanes forcing this, I think it is illegal in every state. It puts two cyclists abreast of each other briefly, potentially forcing traffic to the left even more than usual.


I'll add: it is also very disconcerting for a number of reasons.

First: the rider traveling the correct way (with traffic) simply does not expect to see another cyclist coming in the same direction...pedestrians are generally on sidewalks.

Second: it's even more confusing when you ride on the side closest to traffic...most of ride in the lane as far right as possible OR on the shoulder as far left as possible; a pedestrian (otoh) will nearly always be as far right (to the cyclist direction) as possible when a sidewalk isn't available...having a cyclist take the part where the cyclist is lawfully riding is confusing.

Third: cyclists are much faster than pedestrians...so a cyclist traveling towards another cyclist is not only confusing...but is happening in a much quicker time frame...which adds to the anxiety.

Finally: a cyclist riding against traffic as far right as possible is confusing to motorists...they simply don't expect to see it.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

smartyiak said:


> I'll add: it is also very disconcerting for a number of reasons.
> 
> First: the rider traveling the correct way (with traffic) simply does not expect to see another cyclist coming in the same direction...pedestrians are generally on sidewalks.
> 
> ...


I've put myself in the situation of both the other cyclists, and the drivers. Nothing about the entire situation was unpredictable, or confusing for anybody.

None of this even had to be a situation. The other guy just needed to get over himself, and there wouldn't have been any potential for incident.

You're making this out to be some big deal when it wasn't. It was just two people on bikes passing each other... This happens everyday.... On smaller spaces without incident...

With this, I am done with this conversation. People are completely over-thinking this. Life isn't that hard.....

Good luck to you all.


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