# Front Hub Question



## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

I need to pick up an ISO disc hub - it will be the last upgrade to our '98 MT1000...

There are plenty of 36-hole all-mountain and freeride hubs out there. Question is, would they be considered "tandem-rated" if built up with a decent 36-hole rim? It just seems like there are so many more options.
I'm trying to go "cheaper" - not too cheap (= dangerous), but I'm a little worried going from 40-hole to 36-hole.

btw - we are still riding the Instigator rigid fork, so I think the front wheel gets hammered worse than someone with suspension - that is the basis for my hesitation and questioning.

This looks like it would work. Convertible too (if it ever goes on another bike).

I suppose the White Industries 40-hole would be a no-brainer, but looking for options.

Bear in mind that the Shimano XT Parallax has been on there forever and is doing fine. With the rigid fork, a basic QR or 9mm QR would work fine. I have no thoughts of putting a susp. fork on it.

Thanks,
-F


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## reptilezs (Aug 20, 2007)

cant really go wrong with a 756xt. can convert it to a solid bolt on if you want more stiffness.


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## Plum (Sep 14, 2004)

I like the hope hubs and was/am planning on using one for the front on my tandem as well. I'll probably go with the bolt on option, just to get every bit of stiffness I can without going to 40 hole.

Plus, they're convertible to any format you want (at least the ProII's are, not sure about the older bulbs) which is a plus if you ever decide to go to a thru axle down the road..

Other options would be the White Industries M16 front hub, which is the mate for the tandem M16 rear..

Plum


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Have you looked for a DT Swiss TD hub? Co-Motion had them on clearance a short while ago. Also, some how we got lucky a couple of months back, and there was a guy selling 140mm rear DT Swiss TD's new for cheap.

The TD comes as QR style only for the front. Drillings are 36/40/48.

PK


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

XT 756 hub, 36 spokes, Alex DM18 rim. Ran it rigid with a K-monkey fork for a while, currently suspended. However, we are not hard on the equipment, mostly because we're not that good (as a tandem team).

Many people run a 32 spoke wheel with the Mavrick DUC fork (our plans), a strong rim & decent wheel build can make up for a lot of spokes.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Thanks, gang!

The XT 756 looks pretty good. :thumbsup: 
........^----- This might be the deal for me.

-F


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

XT always seems to come in with great performance at a decent price. There's been a couple XT things not real good but most works well and lasts a respectable time.

Alex does mention the freehubs aren't always holding up with tandems, and I've trashed them on a single. But still go back to them.

PK


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> Thanks, gang!
> 
> The XT 756 looks pretty good. :thumbsup:
> ........^----- This might be the deal for me.
> ...


I thought that was the deal, but it's not... I can't find a use for the disc-only rear wheel.

But, here's an eye-opener for me since it's the first I've had to convert any bike from V-brakes to disc up front (as cheap as I could get away with - and I'm still iffy on the rim choice):

$15 - 203mm rotor
$10 - 203mm caliper mounting bracket
$10 - '09 BB7 caliper (yessss!) :thumbsup: 
$65 - Instigator Fork (without the lawyer tabs ground off) :blush: 
$25 - Sun Rhyno Lite rim, 36H 
$26 - XT 756 hub, also 36H  
$40 - 14ga. spokes + nipples
$20 - shipping
$211

Add a $30 Nevegal 2.35 so I can put the other back on the bike it was borrowed from...

= $241 (goodbye bonus check - first one in a year)

I could have had bunches of 32H wheel _sets_ pre-built in this arrangement for $100, but 32H just isn't enough for a tandem in my book. And it seems that black components ask a premium over the silver that I ordered to match the original wheel.

If you go with suspension and 15/20mm QR axles the price increases _dramatically_ :eekster: . So, if you are faint of heart, make sure to do some research before you take the leap. ...or just put it towards a new bike.

This, along with the 38T chainrings pretty much maxes out the traction, braking, and clearance of the ol' MT1000, although I think it would work just fine with a 100mm fork.

I really appreciate all your input.

Thanks,
-F


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

After all that, I wouldn't cheap out with 14 gauge spokes.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Speedub.Nate said:


> After all that, I wouldn't cheap out with 14 gauge spokes.


It does seem that most people spec 13ga or 13/14ga., but I will direct you here:


Fleas said:


> I was told by a typically reliable source that the Shimano XT Parallax rear hub on my '98 C'dale MT1000 is not necessarily tandem rated - specifically the freehub. I have my doubts about his evaluation. It was stock when the bike was new (40-spoke). The only reason it even came into question was because a 320# stoker put the hurtin' on it (just on a rail trail!) and now the bearings are sounding a little rough and is likely to need replacement this Winter. It has lasted pretty well these 10 years. Do I really need to find a tandem-rated freehub? The rest of the hub will be fine with some new balls, cones, and grease - and actually, the worst part of it may just be the bearings that are internal to the freehub (because it is only loud when coasting... and we don't coast a lot  )
> 
> Thanks,
> -F
> ...


If Mr. 320# didn't fold our wheel, I'm sure the front will be fine even with the side loads. I will have an eye on it on those downhill switchbacks, though, since the flange spacing is less on the new wheel.

-F


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Fleas said:


> If Mr. 320# didn't fold our wheel, I'm sure the front will be fine even with the side loads. I will have an eye on it on those downhill switchbacks, though, since the flange spacing is less on the new wheel.


I don't consider it a matter of maximum strength or a one-time load test. It's truly a matter of longevity. Sapim indicates you can expect twice the fatigue life our of their Strong spokes (the ones with the fat elbows) vs. their straight gauge Leader spokes, even though the difference in yield strength is around 30%.

And with four fewer spokes and the narrower flange spacing, why not spend a few extra bucks on insurance up front?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Speedub.Nate said:


> I don't consider it a matter of maximum strength or a one-time load test. It's truly a matter of longevity. Sapim indicates you can expect twice the fatigue life our of their Strong spokes (the ones with the fat elbows) vs. their straight gauge Leader spokes, even though the difference in yield strength is around 30%.
> 
> And with four fewer spokes and the narrower flange spacing, why not spend a few extra bucks on insurance up front?


Talk about lucky...

DH13 spokes for $0.75 ea.

Hopefully my spoke length calculation is right (the Rhyno is the older style - matches what I already have).

-F


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Fleas said:


> Talk about lucky...
> 
> Hopefully my spoke length calculation is right (the Rhyno is the older style - matches what I already have).


I'm at risk of talking out of my ass here, but I've purposely avoided Wheelsmith spokes based on some personal recommendations as well as some criticism I've read on various forums. However, the likes of Peter White, Sheldon Brown and Jobst Brandt don't seem to have a problem with Wheelsmith, so likely my caution is unjustified.

I do like DT and Sapim, however, and found Sapim Strongs for 70¢ apiece at Wheelbuilder.com:

http://www.wheelbuilder.com/store/sapim-strong-single-butted-spoke.html


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Good call on the wheelbuilder link.

Everyone else has prob'ly tuned this thread out by now, but wheels are fascinating. Minor changes as you speak of could have large effects at undetermined time intervals or in unforeseen circumstances.

That said, I have actually re-used Wheelsmith spokes after wearing out a rim brake rim. The wheel I built is a King/Mavic but with 14ga. spokes. The old StumpJumper that it was on broke. No sooner did I build up the new Stumpy and the rim wore out. Now that it's all together I still ride it at Ray's Indoor MTB Park, and I think nothing of doing the biggest drop in the expert section... so I'm not worried. I _am_ taking your advice on the 13/14 butted spokes, though.

-F

PS - seems weird that oddball 13/14 spokes are cheap with what I would think was a fairly low demand...


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Fleas said:


> ...seems weird that oddball 13/14 spokes are cheap with what I would think was a fairly low demand...


Agreed. I checked my old Cannondale wheels, covered in cobwebs in the back room, and noticed they're just straight 14 gauge 40H wheels. Maybe the DJ crowd uses them? Since spokes tend to go at the elbow, even on single bikes, may as well nip that one in the bud up front.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

I don't think there's a lot of difference (if any) in the structure of XT front hubs from many other heavier-duty hubs out there. So for use on the front of a tandem, I wouldn't think it's an issue if the rim and spoke spec are appropriate for the intended us. On the rear, however, the hub body strength isn't the issue; it's the drive mechanism that fails under tandem use. Off-road, I'd say when, not if. 
But, like with riveted cassettes, there are teams out there that can ride with such finesse that they may be able to keep one intact for a long time. We don't have any such problem with finesse, because we don't have any.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

I've been running 36 14-gauge spokes on a front XT-756 hub, using (gulp!) Wheelsmith spokes. But like I said before, we're not hard on the equipment... yet.

I don't have any preferences to brand of spoke.

Rohloff & Mavrick both have OK'ed 32 spoke hubs on tandems (probably because that's all they build), but they are both dishless wheels.

Re: XT freehubs - they are designed to be disposable, and relatively easy/cheap to replace, so if you get a decent life out of them, they are not bad. But if does suck to have a breakdown mid-ride.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

For the record, those choosing Maverick fork can run a 36 spoke front wheel by using a Chris King 36 front hub. King's 20mm and 24mm axles are interchangeable.


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## TheBrick (Dec 8, 2008)

*XT freehubs*



itsdoable said:


> Re: XT freehubs - they are designed to be disposable, and relatively easy/cheap to replace, so if you get a decent life out of them, they are not bad. But if does suck to have a breakdown mid-ride.


Sorry for the thread diversion but I was curious as to whether you where referring to people using a XT hub or if the shimano tandem hub HF 08 uses an XT freewheel?

I find the item descriptions online of the HF08 unclear. Are shimano are saying the HF08 uses a XT free hub of the hub is XT level in terms of bearing e.t.c If it does not have upgraded freehub I don't see what the premium is being payed is for.

I am after this information because he HF08 seems like a good value hub, if it hold no true value over a XT hub I will not bother with it.

Thanks


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## Trails4Two (May 12, 2008)

*Shimano Hub*

I know it has much higher flanges than a standard XT, and it comes in a 40 hole version. This should allow for a stronger wheel build. Also different axle widths are available (145mm). I don't know if the actual freehub is more durable or not (I doubt it). I don't remember if an XT freehub is interchangeable with a tandem hub or not.


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## TheBrick (Dec 8, 2008)

Well £144 (HF08) vs £35 (XT) for a hub that essentially has a longer axle with a few more spacers and larger flanges seems like a rip-off to me.

EDIT: I pretty sure all shimano free hubs are interchangeable, but that still does not mean it is a XT free hub, and not a XT level beefed up free hub in someway.


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