# Anyone up for riding out at Plenty Gorge?



## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Anyone up for riding at Plenty Gorge during the week as a mostly regular sort of thing?

All this wet weather and chill and I need to harden up a little, haven't been riding nearly enough.

Probably the easyish southside loop only as the river's likely to stay too high to cross over winter.

I'd join in all the fun and merriment at the Cog every week but it's a big trip in busy traffic to get out there and back.


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## TyranT (Mar 30, 2011)

cowpat said:


> All this wet weather and chill and I need to harden up a little, haven't been riding nearly enough.


same here


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Yeah I need to harden up as well. By south do you mean starting at Kariboo? Haven't ridden that side in ages. Wish we could plant some decent massive concrete stepping stones for the crossings. 

I'm keen to make it a regular thing. 

Sent from my Atrix with Tapatalk


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Yes starting from Kariboo.

That side doesn't have as many scratchy bushes intruding onto the track either...

I might head out there on Thursday this week.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Rode there this morning. Usually can't during the week in the shorter daylight hours months but I'll let you know if I get a chance. Only five minutes from home. 

Would be good if there was a more permanent crossing of the river. It was going strong this morning after yesterdays rain.

Trails getting slimy though. Went down a couple of times. New Nevengal tyres not very confidence inspiring and really clogged up.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

jossa said:


> Rode there this morning. Usually can't during the week in the shorter daylight hours months but I'll let you know if I get a chance. Only five minutes from home.


Let me know, I'll join you if I can. Might have to bring out the lights again.

I have no idea on how to cross the river other than use the road - unless you've got a few tonnes of concrete blocks lying around looking for a good home. BTW any idea what they're doing at the old pipe bridge?


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## TyranT (Mar 30, 2011)

where abouts is this trail?


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

TyranT said:


> where abouts is this trail?


More like a network of trails that we string together into a loop (or figure 8 actually, if the river is crossable). No definitive, easy to follow line as such. Pretty hard to explain - best just to try and meet one of us out there.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

nuclear_powered said:


> No definitive, easy to follow line as such.


And deliberately vague at intersections to keep the motos at bay.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Random pic from yesterday - detour around the collapsed drainage gully near Janefield.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

The forecast looks nice so am heading out there tomorrow afternoon (Tuesday) if anyone is interested.


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey cowpat, what's the condition of the trails at the moment? That pic make it look pretty wet.

I rode Smiths Gully with Hud today and it was the greasiest I've ever seen it there.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Trails on the south side of the river are in good shape - just wish there were more.

The singletrack is pretty much unaffected - some wet spots on the trail heading in from Kariboo and a bit damp in two other spots - one of them being where that pic was taken.

The main 4wd track heading through is a bit slimy with green algae - but there's really no reason to be riding it.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Some pics from the south of the river. I don't know how long the loop is - pretty short maybe 6 km or a little more - but ok for a local ride.

Entry from Kariboo:










Over the other side of the pipeline easement:










Young 'uns have built little rollover jumps:










Heading west:










Nice trail:



















Fun techy trail:










A little rocky in spots:










Tricky right turn around the tree and then down:










Getting a bit overgrown:










Heading west towards Janefield:



















Heading back:



















Dodgy rivulet crossing, but it's still holding out:



















More little jumps on the return journey:










Young 'uns have built a little trail with some nice whoops:










Last straight run on the way back before the pipeline easement:


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## Hud (Jun 22, 2004)

Looks good! You'll have to take mearound there sometime Casper.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Anytime I'm free, if you're doing your last delivery around this way one day you can bring your bike on the truck?


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

Hey Casper are you up for a ride out there on Saturday? That is if the weather holds...


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

I would be but won't be around until late arvo tomorrow - 4 or 4:30 or so - or even later. Just a thought - do you think Freida would be up to it by now?


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

I haven't been riding with Frida yet, been really busy unfortunately. I might try her Saturday Morning.

I'd be up for later on Saturday, I guess we'll need our lights.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Cool - I'll text you when I know when I'll be home. It's a short ride but better take lights just in case.

Took the gps last time. Southside loop is only 5 km, plus 2 km each way from Kariboo to get to it. Have to look harder for a way to cross the river. There used to be 6 crossing points - have to check them all out one day. I do have an idea - but it's a bit out there:crazy:.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Hello!*

My name is Emerson and I live in Plenty River Drive, Greensborough. I love to ride the longer, more obscure trails in the Gorge, starting from Kariboo Grove just across the river from home.
I am usually there most weekends, and hopefully I will be able to get there tomorrow, most likely about midday, if not a bit after.
I don't know the trails on the north side very well, but I am keen to learn more. I reckon I've got a pretty good handle on the southern side though, and I am happy to ride with anyone else who wants to go for a spin in the area, or to work with anyone who wants to help maintain or improve the trails (discreetly, of course!).
Cheers - see you out there!


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

I'll show you the trails on the north side one day. They're a bit longer and a little steeper on that side. I tend to be busy on the weekends is the only thing, but if I'm free on an arvo one weekend I'll let you know.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Didn't get out at all yesterday, so extra keen for today. Will be heading out about 11 or 11.30, starting from Kariboo.


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## 4drake9 (Sep 21, 2011)

Could anyone help me out and draw a rough line maybe a screen shot from google earth of which trails + direction you take entering from Kariboo? Thanks guys


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Plenty Gorge*

Hi there,

My name's Emerson - and I've pretty much had enough of trying to get mtbr to load.... :madmax:

I am happy to show you the trails in person, but I can't manage to make this site work adequately to upload any maps or pics.

Email me directly at:
emerthis at gmail.com

Also, cowpat is the main man as trail-guide - it's his turf, as far as I'm concerned - but provided that we respect the bush and stay on the trails, I think we should do OK.

Cheers


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

4drake9 said:


> Could anyone help me out and draw a rough line maybe a screen shot from google earth of which trails + direction you take entering from Kariboo? Thanks guys


Hi mate,

With the amount of trails that cross each other and many that are difficult to find it may be easier hooking up with someone than trying to follow a map!!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Southside in the Gorge*

I get out there most weekends, and now the days are getting longer, after work occasionally too.

Text me to arrange a guided ride.

0412 715 053


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Likewise - feel free to PM me if you're up for a ride in the arvo some day - I'm not usually free on the weekends that's all.

I'm looking forward to daylight savings...and maybe the river will drop just a couple more inches...


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Daylight*

Yep. Seriously looking forward to later sunsets. Already been home early enough twice to get out for quick blasts over the past two weeks, and the weather just keeps getting warmer. Now, to sort out some lights...


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## OnAnySunday (Jul 14, 2011)

*Plenty Gorge trail conditions*

Hi Guys,

Good to see a thread on Plenty Gorge.

Used to ride my old Giant carbon hardtail there in the early to mid 90's. (It's been a while...)

I was thinking of getting back there to ride some of the old tracks and was wondering what the trails are like now? There used to be lots of great fast flowing single track - North of Plenty river.

What's the best way to cross the river nowdays to get from the South to the North side? We used to rock hop at a narrow/shallower section and try to stay out of the drink - (didn't always work out that way).

Hoping some of you regular local riders could give me an update on the old stomping ground.

Thanks.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

OnAnySunday said:


> I was thinking of getting back there to ride some of the old tracks and was wondering what the trails are like now? There used to be lots of great fast flowing single track - North of Plenty river.
> 
> What's the best way to cross the river nowdays to get from the South to the North side? We used to rock hop at a narrow/shallower section and try to stay out of the drink - (didn't always work out that way).


There's a 5 km loop you won't have seen on the south side.

Stuff on the north side now makes a big loop, though in recent months the more technical parts of it have been shortcut and thus overgrown as people only seem to like riding easy stuff.ut:

The young 'uns keep making, abandoning and then remaking little jumps, huts and other structures here and there, especially near Kariboo.

All crossings are flooded this year. The standard one is the shallowest.

You're best to hook up with someone if you want to find everything quickly. Most tracks are marked only minimally and all flagging tape anyone leaves on track entrances is removed. Motos are always a problem but most tracks are these days unaffected.


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## OnAnySunday (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks for the update Cowpat. :thumbsup:

For a decent ride, would you suggest *North* or *South* of the river now?

And with the river levels up, how are you doing the cross over? Are you heading out to Plenty Road and cutting back in, or is there a better/quicker way.

Wouldn't mind heading out that way again some time in the next month or so.

Thanks again.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

North side has steeper terrain and more track, plus you can loop out to Blue Lake if you want to add a few km.

South side is more accessible for most and as a result the track is more established.

I'm accepting my lack of fitness and not crossing, doing two loops southside instead if it's not too cold. The bridge at Booyan then the bike path/short cut/road to the Mackelroy entrance avoids getting your feet wet. I don't know how far it is but there's not much more than a km of bitumen involved.


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## OnAnySunday (Jul 14, 2011)

Ahh... Blue Lake. That brings back some memories. Last I heard, the land around Blue Lake was fenced off - restricted access.

Re: crossing the river - It would be great if Parks Victoria or whoever is responsible for the land had put in a cross over bridge, somewhere along there. Thought that may have been done by now.

Anyway, thanks again for the info. 

Appreciate it.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

OnAnySunday said:


> Re: crossing the river - It would be great if Parks Victoria or whoever is responsible for the land had put in a cross over bridge, somewhere along there. Thought that may have been done by now.


That'll never happen. These days to limit risk it'd have to be a single span bridge and would cost a fortune, and hardly anyone uses the area.

There was a grand plan ten years ago to make a pedestrian bridge out of the pipe bridge and establish visitor facilities and walking/bike paths too but that that doesn't seem to have amounted to anything other than money for the consultants involved in drawing up this plan.


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## OnAnySunday (Jul 14, 2011)

cowpat said:


> That'll never happen. hardly anyone uses the area.
> 
> There was a grand plan ten years ago to make a pedestrian bridge out of the pipe bridge and establish visitor facilities and walking/bike paths too but that that doesn't seem to have amounted to anything other than money for the consultants involved in drawing up this plan.


Great bushland to enjoy and hardly anyone uses the area. Funny about that. 

It's interesting that 15 - 20 years ago it was a bit of a hidden treasure and still seems to be the same way today.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

*Vandals on the North Side*

There's been some trailbuilding activity the last few months on the north side (not me).

The existing loop is slowly being turned into a mesh with useless little tracks added to shortcut sections and large sections bypassed or ignored - generally anything technically interesting, imho - like the narrow traverse and the big dipper. Or maybe it's just that whoever is building trails there hasn't taken the trouble to locate the existing ones; they could do with a bit of raking after all the recent growth. All the same I don't like to see the once-vague tracks lined with logs etc. clear as day for all to see, including the motos.

Accepting that change is inevitable I've let it be, but it's getting to be too much.

Here are some examples of the work of these vandals - note the live trees cut at thigh height to mark the tracks and the gratuitous overuse of weedkiller:




























I guess "Josh" is responsible, perhaps he is of the opinion that he has created these tracks that have been in use for some years now:










And this is just straight-out vandalism. Cutting the middle post at the entrance so you can ride your bike through easier?










The rangers can hardly not have noticed now that it has got to that:



















Just my little rant - I'm frikken angry at these morons but they're probably some underage kids who have no idea about anything.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Just got back from a couple of laps of the south side.

Actually thought about riding the north but with the river obviously un-crossable after last night's storms and not really feeling like riding right around, I stayed south. Shared the trail with only a few kangeroos and a very friendly and brave echidna! Unfortunately, I don't think this sort of thing will last much longer with an increasing level of disregard for the area - trail damage, motos, rubbish being brought in and left, blatant vandalism, damage/killing of live trees (?!?!) etc.

There are parts of the south side of the park that I dislike due to the damage/rubbish, which is why I enjoy the north side a lot more. It now looks as though it might be heading down the same path.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Sad to see it's come to this. I haven't been over there at all since I fell off and chopped up my leg coming down one of the steep moto ruts - which I think was further out than all this 'new' stuff anyway. It's not the sort of attention we want as mountain bikers. Probably couldn't hurt to start actively promoting responsible trail manners at our local bike shops, rotorburn, etc. 
I have heard from other locals that the trails are named for the kids whose Dad is doing most of the building for them - but I don't know how true this might be - I haven't met the builder/s myself. Hopefully the Ranger will sort them out before they ruin it for all of us.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

jossa said:


> There are parts of the south side of the park that I dislike due to the damage/rubbish, which is why I enjoy the north side a lot more. It now looks as though it might be heading down the same path.


No damage or rubbish on the south loop I hope, except for the dumped car parts?

Fingers crossed this "dad" doesn't venture down south. If I find him there he'll get a lecture on ethics and trail relations he won't forget in a hurry (if he's even capable of understanding simple concepts that is).

Take care Emerson, will be in touch.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

No significant rubbish on southside other than the car parts. Couple of plastic cups and such like, which I suspect have blown over from the newest house constructions, and which I should collect in a bag soon.
The little gully crossing with our pile of rocks needs some attention, but other than that it all seems to be holding up well. I haven't been over there much of late, but did a quick southern loop last weekend. Will give you a buzz next time!


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

That's a sorry state of affairs. So much potential out at the gorge. One too many arse-hats to ruin it.


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## Hud (Jun 22, 2004)

I've never ridden there, but even so this situation really annoys me.


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

That's a real shame. I guess some people have no idea.

What's really crap is that all the years you've been in there building tracks (and some great tracks too, with some good technical challenges) and never doing anything that would annoy the rangers but now the whole area is probably going to be under close scrutiny.

Do you ever see many other people riding out there? I know there must be some kids that ride there as they make all those dirt jumps and 'sick' dh tracks. I wonder if you or anyone has seen these people out there before.

Maybe try posting this in rotorburn, seems like more young punks hang out there but then it may only just attract more people to the place.

Anyway hope your well mate. Let's catch up for a ride sometime it's been ages.


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## with_the_band (Jun 20, 2008)

Actually I was chatting to Ross and said the same thing was happening at Smiths Gully.

People were just cutting new tracks through private land, putting in wood work.

Apparently with the delicate situation with the council these new rouge track builders were really setting things back.

I'm sure these is an existing etiquette about this sort of thing I know in climbing once someone has established a route you can't go and modify the route (even if it's putting in bolts for more protection). I guess things are a bit more vague in mtb and there isn't guide books showing who created the track.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Yep some "bolts" might get "chopped" out at the gorge.

Sounds like trouble brewin' at the Yarra Trails too :madmax:: Yarra Trails regulars - Page 118


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Given Victoria's love of cycling (well, compared to everywhere in Australia except Canberra), I am astonished - even dismayed - that there is no apparent organisation looking after these issues on behalf of MTB users. I agree that it's a very vague area, and I am sorely tempted to get off my political behind and get something started, or reinvigorated, or coordinated - or whatever it might take to get a remotely coherent voice and action plan into place.

I come from a history of riding my bike on trails that have, traditionally, been predominantly not for bikes - singletrack is the best, and very few areas have bespoke trails for the purpose - but as I grow older I realise why it's so important to abide by 'the rules'. You Yangs is a great example of how it can work, done properly - but perhaps its remoteness is a big part of what keeps it manageable. We have to start facing these challenges, rather than continually putting them off or ignoring them outright.

Look at what's happening with the Menai area in Sydney's south right now:
OK, I can't post links yet - apparently I haven't posted enough in this forum yet. Go to facebook and look up Menai-MTB-Park-proposal. In any case, it's the same old story.

I am going to start by trying to get all the disparate groups I associate with to start talking to each other - even competing bike shops have this interest in common!


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Doing a couple of loops of the south Saturday morning before the rain. If river is crossable may head across to the north.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Time?


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

PM sent


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Was on the south side this afternoon. The tracks are looking good.

Here are a few vids of the terrain. The first was in September and the second was only last week. 

I ride a bit of everything, from straight up trail riding to small jumps and DH. The Gorge offers some good variety.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

That's some very nice footage there! I was over there yesterday morning, doing the long XC loop with a couple of others. The trails are in good nick on the south side - just a shame about the rubbish blowing in from the new housing developments, and someone's dumped a trailer-full of crap as well.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Spent a couple of hours riding this evening. Quick loop of the south side before going right around to the north (river not crossable yet)

Someone has been busy with a spray can marking a trail on the north side.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Arrrrrrrr..... The old North side. Haven't seen that side in ages. I think I better head there after work in the next few days.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Subtle...

Is that the trail that heads along the cliff top up to the Blue Lake carpark? That is, the oldest singletrack I have found there which is still heavily used and requires no marking whatsoever?

I went for a group ride at Westerfolds yesterday after work - the fit buggers nearly killed me, after my two weeks of excess and no riding. I will have to get out over here soon, to see what's been happening.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

jossa said:


> Someone has been busy with a spray can marking a trail on the north side.


And painting arrows on the south side too, but someone seems to have come along and rubbed them off.

Two of the three little crossings on the southside loop that were washed away are rideable again, btw.

It's amazing how much erosion a few hours of hail and rain brought about, and just what has been washed down what are again tiny little streams:


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Gees, that one isn't going to last much longer is it? Theer are some nice slabs of concrete there we could use for the smaller crossings though!


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

emerthis said:


> Subtle...
> 
> Is that the trail that heads along the cliff top up to the Blue Lake carpark? That is, the oldest singletrack I have found there which is still heavily used and requires no marking whatsoever.


Yes and these are not all the markings. Plenty more I didn't take photos of.


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## johnd663 (Jun 28, 2007)

*I like it*

Hi,

I havent ridden there for over 5 years and really enjoyed it. I rode on Saturday from 4.30 to 7pm and saw one other cyclist. I rode just on the south side as I didnt want my shoes wet.
Rode all the usual downhills (trails with jumps that come from the very top. Found a big arsed jumps track with built up doubles (too big for me). I also found the very tight single track that runs along the edge of the gourge and then figure 8s it and returns. Great trail and technical enough to keep me on my toes. Had one over the bars as there are so many rocks hidden in the grass - no damage done. I tried to cross at the old stop (bottom of the rutted out fireroad) but the exit looked really step and over grown. Can you cross over at the stop at the end of the single track where there is the washout road? Photo in the previous posts. Keen to head over to the Northern side to try the old jumps into the small quarry / pit above Blue Lake.
Well done to the trail crew for maintaning the trails and grooming new ones. The big jumps dont interest me as much as the XC loops and I enjoyed them. Nice to have a close option other than Hanns Loop.
Cheers
JD


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

johnd663 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I havent ridden there for over 5 years and really enjoyed it. I rode on Saturday from 4.30 to 7pm and saw one other cyclist. I rode just on the south side as I didnt want my shoes wet.
> Rode all the usual downhills (trails with jumps that come from the very top. Found a big arsed jumps track with built up doubles (too big for me). I also found the very tight single track that runs along the edge of the gourge and then figure 8s it and returns. Great trail and technical enough to keep me on my toes. Had one over the bars as there are so many rocks hidden in the grass - no damage done. I tried to cross at the old stop (bottom of the rutted out fireroad) but the exit looked really step and over grown. Can you cross over at the stop at the end of the single track where there is the washout road? Photo in the previous posts. Keen to head over to the Northern side to try the old jumps into the small quarry / pit above Blue Lake.
> ...


Hi JD,

If you ride a Ventana it was me you bumped into. Sorry about the vague directions, I would have loved to show you around but, as you saw, I had the kids with me!

Yell out next time you're around and I'll be happy to meet up.


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## johnd663 (Jun 28, 2007)

jossa said:


> Hi JD,
> 
> If you ride a Ventana it was me you bumped into. Sorry about the vague directions, I would have loved to show you around but, as you saw, I had the kids with me!
> 
> Yell out next time you're around and I'll be happy to meet up.


Yeap that was me, you directions were fine Jossa - I found heaps.

Many thanks
John


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

A few shots from Plenty Gorge. 

Beautiful evening for a ride. I love March and April in Melbourne. Nice clear days and still cool evenings. Can ride until nearly 8 without lights also during March. (Footy starts too:thumbsup


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## Ben_M (Jul 7, 2008)

^^Pretty cool^^

Looks like an interesting place to ride.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Glad to see some new work since I went overseas on honeymoon. Looking forward to being able to link north & south together without waiting for the river to drop to drought levels. Sorry I haven't been around to help out - been busy with the whole getting married caper. Should have more time to help with trail work on weekends now though.
Kudos to cowpat, I think...


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Rode both sides yesterday. Had forgotten just how much singletrack there is on the other side - although some of it is barely visible, and I had to backtrack a couple of times to make sure I was heading in the right direction.
I really think it's the sort of area that would make a brilliant MTB park - but I know cowpat has been down that road in the past. 
Great riding, had a lovely couple of hours on the bike.


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## Chopliker (Jan 14, 2012)

Never new about this little gem, may have to make my way over there and give it a ride some time.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

emerthis said:


> Rode both sides yesterday. Had forgotten just how much singletrack there is on the other side - although some of it is barely visible, and I had to backtrack a couple of times to make sure I was heading in the right direction.
> I really think it's the sort of area that would make a brilliant MTB park - but I know cowpat has been down that road in the past.
> Great riding, had a lovely couple of hours on the bike.


Is there a decent place to cross the river anymore? I don't know how many times I've tried to rebuild the crossing near the steep gully bank, only for it piss with rain and dissapear.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> Is there a decent place to cross the river anymore? I don't know how many times I've tried to rebuild the crossing near the steep gully bank, only for it piss with rain and dissapear.


Maaaybeee.... It's a bloody steep climb up out of the river, but there is another way. Cowpat?


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Cowpat?


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Yup. Cowpat. 

It will either make sense in the next few days, or it'll be a month or so after that.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

There's a crossing just off the south loop (or figure eight). It's passable when the river height at Greensborough is less than 0.5 m: River Height data for Plenty R at Greensborough

If you ride the south loop (or figure eight) clockwise then there's a little Y junction near the easternmost end which leads to it. Just before you head uphill to a difficult sharp right turn between some trees and rocks which starts to head back west there is a Y junction. You head right to go uphill. Try going left...

After the crossing there's a small gully and then it's a steep climb up the spurline to join the north loop. The north loop will take you to cliff track etc. and is currently rideable but you really have to know where it is to follow it...only about half of it sees regular use.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Might head out there on Sunday at this stage .. see if I can find this mystical bridge


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

The bridge is easy enough to find - but as it's not my baby I thought I'd best leave it to cowpat to tell all about it. The trail isn't easy to find unless you know where to look - I may well head over for a spin today, as it's been a few weeks since I rode it, and with all the rain, the bush will be reclaiming some of the less-used trails again.
I've been trying to put together a loop which includes most of the north side, but my knowledge of those trails isn't yet quite up to scratch - so I'll keep riding there once every coupe of weeks until I get it figured out.
Tomorrow there will be a group ride (of mixed abilities) at Smiths Gully, meeting at the shop about 10am - and as I am guiding on that one, I won't be doing the Gorge tomorrow. If you'd like to join me on either ride, call or text me on 0412 715 053.
Cheers,
Emerson


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Rode the Gorge yesterday. The bridge is getting a bit of use already. I ran into two young guys exploring the north side - they said they had no idea all those trails were there. Then there were some walkers just near the bridge as I was coming back down the spur. They watched in amazement as I rode right to the edge of the ravine, and they had a friendly chat with me, asking about what trails were around that might be good for walking. 
I only just found the link trail between the top of the spur to the new switchbacks, on my way back home - well done, that man!
It was a great day for riding yesterday. Hopefully today will be similar for the group at Smiths Gully!


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

emerthis said:


> I only just found the link trail between the top of the spur to the new switchbacks, on my way back home - well done, that man!


Heading out there this arv. Will see if I can find this.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

So, didn't find the new switchbacks, but did find the new river crossing. 

Really, really love the south loop out there. Just a whole lot of fun.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

waldog said:


> So, didn't find the new switchbacks, but did find the new river crossing.
> 
> Really, really love the south loop out there. Just a whole lot of fun.




The switchbacks have been there a while now, but I've nothing to do with them. There's some other stuff out there too. Some is good, and some needs a bit of rerouting and rationalisation.

So, the spurline track, was it too steep to actually be considered "fun"? I consider it a middle ring challenge but it's one tough pitch...


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

The spur is good fun on the way down, and I have almost ridden the whole way up it as well. Thanks to some of the bigger obstacles having been removed, it's quite doable - challenging, yes. Fun? Well... The biggest issue I see is the ravine at the bottom of it. I reckon the sides of that will get chopped up pretty quickly, and we should look for an angle to switch-back it. It serves its purpose very well though: a quick route to the east/north loops. Coming straight down the ridgeline probably isn't the best long-term solution, for erosion and degradation, but in the absence of any other workers taking it on I can only congratulate you on the job well done, Cowpat!


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

I agree with Emerson, the spur is much more fun on the way down, but I will admit that we didn't even attempt the climb today. Will next time though.


----------



## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh, and as always, top work cowpat.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

cowpat said:


> So, the spurline track, was it too steep to actually be considered "fun"? I consider it a middle ring challenge but it's one tough pitch...


As we pushed our bikes up the conversation went like this:
B: "Casper probably rides up this."
G: "In the big ring"
B: "Nah on his singlespeed"
G: "With brake rub"

It should come as no surprise that I vote for an easier climb option, but leave the spur track for the trip back.

Otherwise its so awesome and fun out there now. Can't wait to do a north south loop. It'll getchya fit in no time doing that regularly.

We also wondered about another bridge, like the first, to cross that creek wash before the climb? Happy to help carry and construct if the source of the first plank can provide another.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

nuclear_powered said:


> ...a north south loop. It'll getchya fit in no time doing that regularly.


With the original north loop plus a selection of new segments unknowingly "donated" by others...yes it'll be a killer on the legs...that's always been the plan...

Thanks for the feedback, I do agree.

See you all in a month or so.


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## pfullarton (May 1, 2012)

Hi guys,

Wow, am I glad I found this forum! I always thought this site was just for the Yankees! 

I live in Eltham, and went for my first proper mountain bike ride from Kariboo nearly 10 years ago, so I have very fond memories of the path to Blue Lake! 

Have only been in there once or twice in the last year, but reading about these paths I will definitley have to step things up! I usually ride the same route as I have been on a time budget - from Kariboo in virtually a straight line through the paddock past the little ruin and then down the techy decent to the river, get my feet wet cause there is no bridge and I walk through, up the ravine, attempt to ride up the spur, then on to the goat track and to Blue lake, then I usually just turn around and do it in reverse! 

Last time I went there I rode along the Diamond Creek trail to the Main Yarra Trail, then along the MYT to Plenty River Trail, then followed that to Kariboo, went to Blue lake then home along the roads.

Have seen faint signs of other tracks but not had time to explore them, I'd love to come for a ride with Emerson or Cowpat and be shown what the place really has to offer! Not the fittest bloke, but keen to get the fitness back up!

Pete


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

pfullarton said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Wow, am I glad I found this forum! I always thought this site was just for the Yankees!
> 
> ...


PM sent


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

pfullarton said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Wow, am I glad I found this forum! I always thought this site was just for the Yankees!
> 
> ...


Mate, that sure is the long way to get here! Sometimes I do a similar loop to go and ride the trails along the Yarra, but from Eltham to Greensy I almost always end up coming back along Sherbourne, Karingal & St Helena Roads, rejoining the Plenty trail under the bridge at Main St, for a nice flat cruise home.

There are some trails in the Gorge, and of course I would love to show you around. I often ride there, but since the end of daylight savings, it's restricted to weekends.

Sounds to me like your fitness is fine - for me, anyway! Let me know when you're keen. :thumbsup:


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Had a blast over there this morning with Simon & Pete. It was a bit muddy, and a bit slippery, and it took me a whole hour to get my eye in (by which time Pete had left).
Figured out a decent loop for next weekend's group ride - just hope the trails dry out a bit before then!


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## quiggs1974 (Nov 22, 2007)

After watching this thread from a distance for a while now, snuck out there this arvo. What a cool little jewel you guys have out there! Only spent an hour rolling around in circles, but good fun tight single track, looks to hold up well with the rock substrate. 

The best part its only 25mins drive from home..

quiggs


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

quiggs1974 said:


> After watching this thread from a distance for a while now, snuck out there this arvo. What a cool little jewel you guys have out there! Only spent an hour rolling around in circles, but good fun tight single track, looks to hold up well with the rock substrate.
> 
> The best part its only 25mins drive from home..
> 
> quiggs


No, the best part is it's only 3 minutes ride from home.

But it is pretty great =)


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

emerthis said:


> No, the best part is it's only 3 minutes ride from home.
> 
> But it is pretty great =)


At my back door


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## quiggs1974 (Nov 22, 2007)

piss off


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Rode both South and North a couple of times this week; once on Tuesday but was too wet on some sections, and once again today and the conditions were fantastic. Traction is awesome and the vague sections are starting to bed in. 

Bit of a group ride starting to form for this Saturday (Emerson:thumbsup if anyone is keen. Weather looks ok.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

jossa said:


> Rode both South and North a couple of times this week; once on Tuesday but was too wet on some sections, and once again today and the conditions were fantastic. Traction is awesome and the vague sections are starting to bed in.
> 
> Bit of a group ride starting to form for this Saturday (Emerson:thumbsup if anyone is keen. Weather looks ok.


I'm still in, on the condition that I can shake the "Black Lung" that has been troubling me this week.

Keen as mustard though, even if i'll be coughing up the plague for the whole ride.


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## pfullarton (May 1, 2012)

I might make an appearance and tag along at the back of the mob! What time?


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

pfullarton said:


> I might make an appearance and tag along at the back of the mob! What time?


10:30 @ Kariboo


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

waldog said:


> I'm still in, on the condition that I can shake the "Black Lung" that has been troubling me this week.
> 
> Keen as mustard though, even if i'll be coughing up the plague for the whole ride.


Best way of getting rid of it is a ride on the bike, I say!*

* I'm not a doctor.


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## pfullarton (May 1, 2012)

Thanks Jossa, won't know for certain until tomorrow, if I'm not there don't wait for me.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

jossa said:


> Best way of getting rid of it is a ride on the bike, I say!*
> 
> * I'm not a doctor.


I am a medical professional, and I believe your treatment plan is sound.

See you tomorrow.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

Hud, are you there?


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Weather looks shite but I will be out there if anyone's still coming. Brrr!!!


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm still coming.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

I'm not sure if there is any gorge left, as I just emptied a trucked load of it out of my drivetrain.


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## Chopliker (Jan 14, 2012)

I wanted to find it this afternoon since I had been at the inlaws all weekend on this side of town, but I couldn't find it. I had forgotten the name of the street where the track started! And I was looking around the wrong PG park (was looking around the Mernda one... not much there except housing estates! erk). Bitterly disapointed I've come home to the west, re-read this thread and with the help of google earth found where it all starts... Next time for sure now. Looks like a really good bunch of traks out there, so very gutted I didn't get to ride them.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

More photos from the north. Bit drier today! Spur track. New rollover, watch out for it!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

That looks fresh!

I was only over there last night (Wednesday) with a couple of lads. It's good fun in the dark, but finding the new bits up to the water tank in the dark didn't go so well - we got there in the end though =)

It was decidedly slippery, but we had a great ride. Over an hour and a half, and I think we covered nearly 14 km. Impressive speed, huh?

I took a few out tonight on the south side as well. That'll teach 'em for riding hardtails and rigids! Seriously, though, I often forget just how technical some of those trails are, and merrily lead riders through there in pitch darkness. No harm done, fortunately.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Trail fairies out again?*

Quick run on both sides this afternoon, and I spy the makings of a gully crossing... 
You're mad, Cowpat - mad, but brilliant!

Hoping to ride over there again tomorrow morning with another local, who hasn't been on his bike much lately. Not decided on time yet.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

Gully crossing ey? Tell me more..... No really, please tell me more, as I'm on call for the WHOLE weekend, therefore can't join you tomorrow. 

Stupid job.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

waldog said:


> Gully crossing ey? Tell me more..... No really, please tell me more, as I'm on call for the WHOLE weekend, therefore can't join you tomorrow.
> 
> Stupid job.


I can't really say just yet - except to suggest that it looks like a promising development.

Sorry to hear work has you off the bike the whole weekend, as tomorrow looks like it should be lovely. I will be escorting a nephew to the miniature railway in Eltham after lunch, so my riding will have to be over and done with by midday.

More news as it comes to hand =)


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Decided on a late start to work this morning to get a ride in!

Anyone planning to cross the river in the next couple of days may have to wait or get wet!


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Haha! Crazy. Has the bridge been built in the gully just on the other side of this crossing? I remember seeing the boards there a month ago.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

I rode north and south this arvo - the river level is back to normal.

Minions are a definite advantage atm, it means it's only my legs that prevent me from riding up the spurline. Kudos to whoever manages it all the way from the bottom - a runup is now possible.

Take care on the way down, there's no transition and the ground is not level.

Feel free to add a few rocks to the pile for later use.

Edit: Oh yeah - it *is* wide, but it's a little ways up. OHS and all that.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

cowpat said:


> I rode north and south this arvo - the river level is back to normal.
> 
> Minions are a definite advantage atm, it means it's only my legs that prevent me from riding up the spurline. Kudos to whoever manages it all the way from the bottom - a runup is now possible.
> 
> ...


Nice work, mate! I'll check it out sometime during the weekend!

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

jossa said:


> Nice work, mate! I'll check it out sometime during the weekend!
> 
> :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Sounds like it's about time to head across the river again. It's been a few weeks since I last went over there at all...


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

emerthis said:


> Sounds like it's about time to head across the river again. It's been a few weeks since I last went over there at all...


2 o'clock today!


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## quiggs1974 (Nov 22, 2007)

Rode there on Sunday, well done lads the new little bridge is awesome makes it a lot easier to get up now without having to put a foot down! It does need a few rocks to make the transition onto the bridge a little safer, when heading back down

Quiggs


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

I'll agree with Cowpat's statement of Minions being an advantage at the moment. I took beardi around the south loop today. Mega grease fest, but still fun, Ardent and Crossmark is not the combo for the current conditions.

Sadly though, lots of moto roost marks around the loop..... bastards!!!


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## beardi (Jun 25, 2009)

yep, minions would have been a real help out there yesterday! Some great trails there though so a big thanks for being the tour guide (again) and an even bigger thanks to the trail fairies out that way; it was a lot of fun, look forward to riding it again soon.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

cowpat said:


> I rode north and south this arvo - the river level is back to normal.
> 
> Minions are a definite advantage atm, it means it's only my legs that prevent me from riding up the spurline. Kudos to whoever manages it all the way from the bottom - a runup is now possible.
> 
> ...


A run-up may well be possible, but it sure isn't easy!

Excellent job on the crossing, cowpat =)

I have only been over once since you completed it, and if I get the chance I will certainly pop over and help gather some stone for the transition - although my time is a bit precious of late, with backyard renovations taking up every decent weather weekend, and organising the social rides...

The runners turned a fair few sections into bogs, but they also tamped down the cliff track across to Blue Lake really nicely! Certainly some detouring around the more mucky crossings would b a good idea - but finding the time and labour necessary, especially in what is very much a 'grey' area, is proving a challenge this time of year. Hopefully summer and DST will free up some time!

Cheers,
Emerson


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Nah I can't ride up from the bottom either, and may never be able to. Might be worth having a go in summer once there's enough grip for a lighter bike...but it was never meant to be easy...


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

Strava that climb......





........ just kidding.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

waldog said:


> ........ just kidding.


We believe you 

Will have to get out there and check out this new crossing. Haven't seen the north side (other than that brief reconnaissance a while ago) for ages.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

nuclear_powered said:


> We believe you
> 
> Will have to get out there and check out this new crossing. Haven't seen the north side (other than that brief reconnaissance a while ago) for ages.


I reckon all this rain might make that a little difficult again for a while - but the river levels indicated here might suggest otherwise...

I ain't going out there again until it's dried up a bit. And I intend to use those drying days to get some more backyard work done in the few I anticipate we will have before summer!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Might be a bit deep for river crossing tomorrow...


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

waldog said:


> Strava that climb......
> 
> ........ just kidding.


You may be - but someone already has...


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Tracks are great at the moment, have dried out and are riding quick. Maybe two or three puddles in the bottom of a gully or similar but on my 20km ride i didn't notice any of it.

Great day for it too. Happy fathers day to you dads.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

sedifus said:


> Tracks are great at the moment, have dried out and are riding quick. Maybe two or three puddles in the bottom of a gully or similar but on my 20km ride i didn't notice any of it.
> 
> Great day for it too. Happy fathers day to you dads.


This is good news.

Hope to get out later in the week.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

waldog said:


> Hope to get out later in the week.


Depending on how much rain is expected, maybe Wednesday or Thursday?


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

cowpat said:


> Depending on how much rain is expected, maybe Wednesday or Thursday?


Is that you saying you'll join me?

Thursday is more realistic for me I think.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

waldog said:


> Is that you saying you'll join me?
> 
> Thursday is more realistic for me I think.


Maybe, text me if you're heading out, if you'd like some company.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

cowpat said:


> Maybe, text me if you're heading out, if you'd like some company.


Will do.

Cheers.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Did someone lose a drink bottle?
I found one today on the north side. It is white, pm me what brand/team it is and we can sort out when i can get it to you.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Yup, it's dry now. Amazing what a difference a few spring days has made.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Sweet! Hoping to get out and clean up some of the fresh growth, south side is quite tight at the moment.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

sedifus said:


> Sweet! Hoping to get out and clean up some of the fresh growth, south side is quite tight at the moment.


That would be very kindly of you, sir. I spent some time today rebuilding the rocky/concrete crossing up near Janefield today, so it should last a few more months. I reckon it might be a good idea to abandon that line though, and go up across the big pipe which is about 20m up the gully from there. Thoughts?

Then I wandered over the north side, to see how much of the trails I could cover in one go. Without going across the big bog (where the runners trashed the gully bottom) that gets you over on the lesser-used western trails, I covered over 16km. The new extensions to Jess's Track are pretty neat-o, I reckon. Someone's been busy! Today I rode at least 4km of trails I hadn't seen (or linked together) before. Happy times =)


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

I used to ride over the pipe across the pinebark. But I thought it was too easy. But then I haven't been rebuilding the crossing either (though it did look fine to me last Thursday)...


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Is the rocky crossing you're referring to the one upstream of the collapsed road corner? If so, I really like that crossing. It's got all the hallmarks of a classic bit of MTB singletrack. It's the sort of crossing you see in magazine photos. Maybe I'm alone in that thought, but from the first time I rode it I considered it to be an excellent addition.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

> Is the rocky crossing you're referring to the one upstream of the collapsed road corner? If so, I really like that crossing. It's got all the hallmarks of a classic bit of MTB singletrack. It's the sort of crossing you see in magazine photos. Maybe I'm alone in that thought, but from the first time I rode it I considered it to be an excellent addition.


One and the same. I agree that its very MTB and a great part of the tracks. We can't dumb them down too much. Maybe if someone accidently spilt some quick-rete on it, over the smaller loose rocks, this rebuilding problem would stop?


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

waldog said:


> Sadly though, lots of moto roost marks around the loop..... bastards!!!


Had a little problem with a few on Sunday arvo. A couple passed me on some single track. Not dangerous, just inconsiderate. Saw them later with their ute that they had driven right into the Park. I made a suggestion (politelty!) but it didn't go down too well! I left it at that!


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

A few of them ride past my place on their way in. Nearly hit one in the head with a orange...


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

jossa said:


> Had a little problem with a few on Sunday arvo. A couple passed me on some single track. Not dangerous, just inconsiderate. Saw them later with their ute that they had driven right into the Park. I made a suggestion (politelty!) but it didn't go down too well! I left it at that!


So now they're driving in...not just young kids of stupid parents who buy them a bike but won't take them anywhere to ride it...how old are they? Where do they come in? What tracks were they on? PM me if you prefer.

Yeah there was someone doing circle work on the grass in their Jeep the other day. I took out my phone to take some pics of their rego - they drove straight off as soon as they saw that...and before I could get a clear shot.

YKY, you need to work on your aim.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

sedifus said:


> One and the same. I agree that its very MTB and a great part of the tracks. We can't dumb them down too much. Maybe if someone accidently spilt some quick-rete on it, over the smaller loose rocks, this rebuilding problem would stop?


I also love the crossing - it's a challenge to line it up properly when the way in is slippery, but getting it right sets you up for the next little climb - which was my preferred route over CP's straight line up the hill (that I couldn't climb).
My concern is more over the fact that, when the bigger chunks of concrete were last washed away, there was a distinct possibility of getting the front wheel grabbed on the way through, and the broken roadbed and bits of guttering in the gully below just looked to be waiting for someone to fall in there. Don't get me wrong - it still does look pretty bad for falling in to, but at least this should be less likely now the way through is a bit smoother.

And thanks to the person who trimmed that horrible yellow flowered weedy stuff - my skin is very appreciative after this arvo's quick blast :thumbsup:

Cheers!


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

cowpat said:


> So now they're driving in...not just young kids of stupid parents who buy them a bike but won't take them anywhere to ride it...how old are they? Where do they come in? What tracks were they on? PM me if you prefer.
> 
> Yeah there was someone doing circle work on the grass in their Jeep the other day. I took out my phone to take some pics of their rego - they drove straight off as soon as they saw that...and before I could get a clear shot.
> 
> YKY, you need to work on your aim.


Wholly crap I was close though. I launched it from my balcony, taking into account his approaching speed and possible line, bounced once and flew about 10-20cms in front of his face. Made him flinch back and nearly fall off, so he fairly sh!t himself.  Haven't seen that guy since.

I'm actually going to put a call into the Hoon Hotline to get the Special Solo Vic Police Branch (Cops on dirtbikes), to head out. They do a lot patrols around Melbourne areas for similar situations. But people need to put in the complaints so they know about it. The more complaints, the quicker and more thorough the action from the police will be.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> I'm actually going to put a call into the Hoon Hotline to get the Special Solo Vic Police Branch (Cops on dirtbikes), to head out. They do a lot patrols around Melbourne areas for similar situations. But people need to put in the complaints so they know about it. The more complaints, the quicker and more thorough the action from the police will be.


I would actually consider joining the police force if my job were just riding around on a moto catching hoons. Only I'd suggest the cops ride electric motos so you can sneak up on them.

(provided they taught me how to ride a motorbike, of course)


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

cowpat said:


> So now they're driving in...not just young kids of stupid parents who buy them a bike but won't take them anywhere to ride it...how old are they? Where do they come in? What tracks were they on? PM me if you prefer.


I think they came in through University Hill and then parked just off the pipeline easement near the sandy, circular trail that they have ripped up!!!

First group, the ones that passed me, I would say mid 20s to mid 30s. The other group, two younger kids and an adult, mid 20s.

I'm pretty sure that they covered most of the trails on the southside! The group overtook me on the trail between the area where all the jumps are and the fireroad that has the water rut down the middle that you cross.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issues with people enjoying themselves on trailbikes. I used to do the same when I had a bike in my teens! Most of my riding was done on the 200 acres of bush on my cousins' property in Lal Lal (30kms from Ballarat). Lots of fun!! Spent a lot of time up there on my Malvern Star Tarago bike too!! I wish they still had that place!! Got up to a lot of things during my stays up there!! 

Anyway, enough of the reminiscing! There are more suitable places to ride and these guys need to show a bit more respect to the trails (and the people that built them), especially in the way they use their throttle! :nono:

PM sent Casper.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

jossa said:


> I think they came in through University Hill and then parked just off the pipeline easement near the sandy, circular trail that they have ripped up!!!
> 
> <snip>
> 
> There are more suitable places to ride and these guys need to show a bit more respect to the trails (and the people that built them), especially in the way they use their throttle!


I thought you couldn't come in through Uni Hill without getting through a gate - has something been busted open? Or left open after the running race, maybe?

I agree that sharing the trails with moto-riders isn't always bad. Mostly they shred the trails up with too much throttle, but I have encountered the odd few who are out to enjoy the ride and work on their skills at low speed. Sadly they are few and far between, in my experience.

The South side really should be off limits to motos anyway, IMHO. Pretty sure it is, actually, but I had thought they might respect that if they had a ute to go further afield.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

emerthis said:


> I thought you couldn't come in through Uni Hill without getting through a gate - has something been busted open?


With all the property development happening on the edge of the park I guess it's easy to find a way in right now, and not much can be done about it I suppose. I guess once the houses are built there'll be a fence all the way around.

They are lazy. It's 30 minutes up the road to get to Mt Disappointment or Kinglake. Legal places to ride with real tracks and proper hills. On the other hand these guys will be unlicensed and unregistered and incapable of riding actual dirt bike tracks on their little Chinese pitbikes. Fwiw the dirt bike community dislikes these guys just as much as the MTB community. (And yes, when riding with friends we have blasted past such guys hopelessly stuck on hills out of gullies, at least there is that level of payback.)

At least they won't cross the plank. Part of the problem with the other crossing was that motos could get through. I've a mind to make the other crossing permanently uncrossable, at least to motos, even when the water level drops.

I was wondering if a few MTB-friendly but unskilled-moto-rider-unfriendly obstacles might keep them off the single at least. I don't know how many of them would go down the hill and ride across the sleeper, for example.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

cowpat said:


> At least they won't cross the plank. Part of the problem with the other crossing was that motos could get through. I've a mind to make the other crossing permanently uncrossable, at least to motos, even when the water level drops.
> 
> I was wondering if a few MTB-friendly but unskilled-moto-rider-unfriendly obstacles might keep them off the single at least. I don't know how many of them would go down the hill and ride across the sleeper, for example.


True about the plank! When people have asked me why it's so skinny and flexy, that's the reply I give them.

'Fixing' the other crossing probably won't do much - if they're that hopeless, I can't see them getting out of the massive rut they've created there!

More obstacles are probably our best bet - but we really can't 'fence off' the trailheads in the more open areas, because they will just ride around.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)




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## BP-29 (Sep 22, 2012)

***FOUND** Set of Fiskars lopper/pruners***

Was riding Plenty Gorge today for the first time in months and found a set of Fiskars lopper/pruners in one of the gullies on the north side near "Josh's Track". Its the boggy section near some brush that has been laid down, if they're yours you'll know where I mean. I couldn't carry them out so I've left them against a tree, so hopefully you can grab them before someone else does.

The track conditions are simply fantastic at the moment, I was even able to ride the full length of the cliff track without dabbing, a first for me. Another first, I've been able to link together a pretty good loop taking in both sides with minimal retraces.

Thanks to the trail fairies that placed the VERY well constructed bridge and the plank across the Plenty. I chose my direction so I came down to the wet crossing, and down to the new bridge. I'm sure some of you clever bastards can ride up those climbs but I'm stuffed if I can!! Next time I go to the the Gorge I'll take some secateurs. Particularly along the cliff, the undergrowth is starting to encroach across the track.

23C, sunny and simply perfect but very quiet today, only saw 2 other bikes and 2 pairs of walkers. No motos, it's disappointing to know they're in there but inevitable really. FWIW, the Hoon Hotline (which is just the Crimestoppers line) will do little except take down any details, but if they get enough reports then they may target the area. If you can get the rego of any bikes or utes, and pass them onto the hotline, it may help, it's worth a shot. There are plenty of places where they can ride legally and areas like the Gorge are simply inappropriate, and just a little dangerous to us riders. If the bikes and riders are unlicensed and unregistered, then even more so.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Probably wasn't lost. Strategically left behind perhaps? I know I sometimes leave tools in the bush for when I go back.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Was that a stack at the end of your vid Yippee? 

Nice riding, regardless. Good to see what my bike is capable of, even if the rider is most definitely not.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

nuclear_powered said:


> Was that a stack at the end of your vid Yippee?
> 
> Nice riding, regardless. Good to see what my bike is capable of, even if the rider is most definitely not.


Not really mate. There is a ghetto jump right after the landing that is really soft and not ready to hit, so I actually just tried to avoid. No stack, just looked messy! 

Are you riding a black/gold nomad carbon? I saw one at Cressy yesterday. Congrats on your first race btw. Cressy last year was my first race and it got me hooked.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> Are you riding a black/gold nomad carbon? I saw one at Cressy yesterday. Congrats on your first race btw. Cressy last year was my first race and it got me hooked.


Nah white ALU with red bits (of which there were two - my evil twin on a smaller white ALU who I've also bumped into at Buller before yesterday - he raced 3 riders before me). If I could get my hands on a carbon, it'd be the white one. Though Beardi is a fan of the black/gold model - harking back to the JPS Beamers of Bathurst yesteryear.

And thanks ... I'm stoked and pumped to do better next year. How did you go?


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

nuclear_powered said:


> Nah white ALU with red bits (of which there were two - my evil twin on a smaller white ALU who I've also bumped into at Buller before yesterday - he raced 3 riders before me). If I could get my hands on a carbon, it'd be the white one. Though Beardi is a fan of the black/gold model - harking back to the JPS Beamers of Bathurst yesteryear.
> 
> And thanks ... I'm stoked and pumped to do better next year. How did you go?


They are bloody great bikes. Can't see myself parting with it for a while.

I had a big slam in a practice run and lost a lot of skin and confidence. Didn't notice the bog of mud right before the big double after the massive boulder near the bottom... Rrrr!! Anyway, pulled a 3rd in C, which I was happy with. I posted my race run on YouTube which you can see through my signature below if you are interested.

I will have to look out for you on the trails. I plan to head to Buller a few times this summer. We will have to do a couple of runs together.  If not Buller, then the Gorge. I'm out there at least once a week.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

A podium finish with injury - impresive! I think I remember seeing your bike now ... the blue bars ring a bell. Coincidentally I was communicating with clementcycles via rotorburn yesterday and your vid stream seems to indicate you know each other. Both your Cressy vids give me inspiration to pick better lines and (hopefully) go faster there in the future.

Anyway, yeah I'll keep an eye out too. Cowpat (from here) and I usually head to Buller at least once a summer, and I'd say I'll head up at least 2 more times as well. Will try to organise something for sure.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Did someone say Buller?  For sure. I'm keen to check out that iRide park too.


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

South side is mint at the moment. 

Especially loved our little cowpat directed tech section at the end. 

Fun spin with N_P.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Getting back to the original question posted by Cowpat, is anyone keen to get a regular ride during the week happening? It’s getting pretty busy on the trails judging by the number of tyre tracks!
I’m thinking Wednesdays evenings, around 6:30. Will need lights at least for two or three weeks.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Meeting place?


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Any chance of Thursday instead?


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

cowpat said:


> Any chance of Thursday instead?


Thursday nights will usually be occupied for me with the CycleHouse shop rides - which will occasionally/often head up to the Gorge, but often head downstream along the Plenty to the Yarra. However they suit me just fine otherwise =)


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

cowpat said:


> Any chance of Thursday instead?


No worries!

Thursdays 6:30. Kariboo Grv.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

emerthis said:


> Thursday nights will usually be occupied for me with the CycleHouse shop rides - which will occasionally/often head up to the Gorge, but often head downstream along the Plenty to the Yarra. However they suit me just fine otherwise =)


Didn't know these were still on...or just on hold for winter?


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

jossa said:


> No worries!
> 
> Thursdays 6:30. Kariboo Grv.


See you there!


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Was out there this afternoon. Great weather and the trails were definitely nice and dry.
Spring is here for sure, a lot of animals out there at the moment.Today i saw a few snakes too, 3 i think. I saw one up by the broken road near Janefield. Coming down that hill onto the road and almost hit it because i couldn't stop in time. I think it was another 2 getting it on in the tight tea-tree section of Jess' Track (behind the water tank). Bunny hopped them and hauled it out of there as i couldn't stop before them again. I know I'll be looking to ride with a partner from now on. Also will be on Thursday nights from daylight savings.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

sedifus said:


> Was out there this afternoon. Great weather and the trails were definitely nice and dry.
> Spring is here for sure, a lot of animals out there at the moment.Today i saw a few snakes too, 3 i think. I saw one up by the broken road near Janefield. Coming down that hill onto the road and almost hit it because i couldn't stop in time. I think it was another 2 getting it on in the tight tea-tree section of Jess' Track (behind the water tank). Bunny hopped them and hauled it out of there as i couldn't stop before them again. I know I'll be looking to ride with a partner from now on. Also will be on Thursday nights from daylight savings.


Yep, snakes are out and about! Saw one also up near the watertank during yesterdays, unexpected afternoon off ride. A small brown crossing the trail in front of me. In saying that, I'd rather snakes than spiders...is that normal?!?!

Keeping on the zoological topic, I also saw a pretty decent size fish (at least 30cm, probably larger) swimming just below the surface of the river just before the plank bridge. Facing upstream waiting in the sun for a snack! I didn't think there were fish that large in there. Don't know what type it was but it had a rounded tail-fin.

It was here, but don't look for it in the photo, it saw me and disappeared from view! The bridge may serve a different purpose for any keen anglers!

Out again tomorrow evening!


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## waldog (Nov 4, 2005)

I don't like this talk of snakes.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

cowpat said:


> See you there!


I just went to charge my lights and the charger just cooked itself!! May be hard to ride in the dark!


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

At least your bike isn't in pieces!  I just had to warrant my frame and ship it back to Santa Cruz. Will be keen to get on the Thursday rides when I get the replacement.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

I don't like snakes either...from all the reports there seem to more of them about this year than I can ever remember.

I reckon it's a good move to carry a compression bandage, just in case.



jossa said:


> I just went to charge my lights and the charger just cooked itself!! May be hard to ride in the dark!


Dang!

What happened to the Nomad, Yipee?


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

jossa said:


> I just went to charge my lights and the charger just cooked itself!! May be hard to ride in the dark!


Found another one that seems to be doing the job. Should be good to go!


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

See you there then, text me if you can't make it.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

cowpat said:


> What happened to the Nomad, Yipee?


Sorry only just saw this mate.

My Nomad was a very early run, in the first few hundred of the Carbon. It started to get a hairline crack around a pivot point near the VPP link. SC were aware of similar incidents very early on and fixed it for future frames. The warranty claim has been smooth so far. Just a pain waiting for the new frame. At least I can get a new colour. Will feel like a new bike. 

I will jump on the group rides when the bike is re-built. I love slowing people down! Haha!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

jossa said:


> Didn't know these were still on...or just on hold for winter?


Shop rides were on hold for winter. They are back on as of this coming Thursday. Starting point is Cycle House in Para Rd, 6.30pm.

Sometimes we will ride the Gorge, sometimes down to Hans' Loop, sometimes up past that to the old Templestowe Hill Climb and back down along the Yarra, and often down to Banksia Flats via as much singletrack as is rideable.

Pace is usually pretty quick at the front (I can't keep up the whole ride), but the group stops frequently to re-gather and talk shite


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> I love slowing people down! Haha!


Dude that's my role and I'm quite protective of it.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Hmmmm....15 degrees, showers, thunderstorms and possible hail for this Thursday. A little different than last Thursday; 31, fine and sunny.

May not get 9 riders like last week, but if it doesn't rain too much and it clears by evening, I'll still be keen for one or two laps of the southside on Thursday.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

Probably see you there, text you if I can't.

If I don't get a replacement spoke for my Anthem by then I'll be taking on the job of slowing things down.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

This Thursday is go for me! Fantasic forecast too!:thumbsup:


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

It does look good. What times/distances have the previous rides been?

Also ran over another snake today though :nonod:


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

See you there Simon. Still no spoke so I will be guarding the rear.

Don't worry Sean, I'm no racer, no need to worry about pace. You can take the lead and clear out all the snakes.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Haha not too fussed about pace but I don't have night lights if were staying out that late.

Also there's free beers at uni. We'll see if I make it...


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

sedifus said:


> Haha not too fussed about pace but I don't have night lights if were staying out that late.
> 
> Also there's free beers at uni. We'll see if I make it...


We'll make it back before dark if you don't have lights!


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## Haydn (Oct 25, 2012)

Was out at plenty gorge wednesday, park ranger has put signs up at the new river crossing and ditch bridge indicating both structures will be removed. Maybe it's time for a plenty gorge users group/trail alliance!


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Haydn said:


> Was out at plenty gorge wednesday, park ranger has put signs up at the new river crossing and ditch bridge indicating both structures will be removed. Maybe it's time for a plenty gorge users group/trail alliance!


Yeah, they went up Wednesday. Someone is working on this. Hopefully an agreement or compromise can come about. In the meantime, be good out there!


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## Haydn (Oct 25, 2012)

jossa said:


> Yeah, they went up Wednesday. Someone is working on this. Hopefully an agreement or compromise can come about. In the meantime, be good out there!


Sweet, need any assistance let me know. Been following the achievements of Smiths Gully and helping out with their working bees, been great to see what a users group and forming a relationship with parks vic and local council can achieve.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

jossa said:


> Yeah, they went up Wednesday. Someone is working on this. Hopefully an agreement or compromise can come about. In the meantime, be good out there!


Yep, we're on it. I will let you all know how we can best present as a united group ASAP.

Meanwhile, milk it!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Haydn said:


> Sweet, need any assistance let me know. Been following the achievements of Smiths Gully and helping out with their working bees, been great to see what a users group and forming a relationship with parks vic and local council can achieve.


Hey all,

I have contacted the Ranger in Charge at Plenty Gorge and we are going to start discussions about MTBing in the area.

I am trying to put together a representative group to include all MTBers who use the Park, and also include some others who have had dealings with Parks Vic previously. The wishlist looks like this:
1.	Cowpat - a person of experience and knowledge in the area, 
2.	The person who has built trails around the eastern edge of the Park, near Oatlands Road,
3.	George Couyant (who is currently handling negotiations at Hans Loop in Westerfolds/Candlebark), 
4.	Super Cycle Watsonia, Walkers Wheels & Cycle House, 
5.	Smiths Gully MBC, Yarra Ranges MBC, Murrindindi MBC, You Yangs MBC, Geelong MBC, Forrest MBC, and any other clubs who have been dealing with Parks Vic,
6.	MTBA & IMBA.

If you would like to be involved, either at a meeting or simply by staying informed about progress by being included in the email loop, please PM me your name and email address and I will put you on that list.

Also, if you have contact details for anyone at the organisations, shops or clubs listed above, or any other suggestions for people who should be involved, please let me know.

Once you're on the list I will send you an email with full details of the discussion, and then keep you informed about how things are progressing.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

emerthis said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have contacted the Ranger in Charge at Plenty Gorge and we are going to start discussions about MTBing in the area.
> 
> ...


You know I'm in!!!!


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Hey Emerson .
I'll happily be the representative for Supercycle. You should have my email. 
I also know a number of riders who used to compete in races when they used to be held in the gorge. I'm sure they could provide some insightful knowledge. 

Also now the bridges are going I think it is time to build a giant double over the river.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

sedifus said:


> Hey Emerson .
> I'll happily be the representative for Supercycle. You should have my email.
> I also know a number of riders who used to compete in races when they used to be held in the gorge. I'm sure they could provide some insightful knowledge.
> 
> Also now the bridges are going I think it is time to build a giant double over the river.


Is that you, Sean?

And I see that the southern line into said double appears to have been commenced!


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

It sure is 

If someone has already started I better get onto building a landing then haha.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Also I am sure I know the builder on the east side.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

sedifus said:


> Also I am sure I know the builder on the east side.


Excellent. He knows me, but I am damned if I can remember his name - nor do I have his contact details. Could you either pass on his contact details (name, email, phone) to me, or alternatively, just bounce any emails I send to you across to him.

Thanks!


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## Haydn (Oct 25, 2012)

emerthis said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I have contacted the Ranger in Charge at Plenty Gorge and we are going to start discussions about MTBing in the area.
> 
> ...


Hey Emerson, Count me in - Shoot me an email and i'll shoot through some more details. Cheers Haydn. haydndeane(at)me(dot)com


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## BP-29 (Sep 22, 2012)

emerthis said:


> If you would like to be involved, either at a meeting or simply by staying informed about progress by being included in the email loop, please PM me your name and email address and I will put you on that list.


Hi Emerson, great work and well done for putting this together. I'd be very interested in getting involved in this and helping out in any way I can. I can't PM you as I don't have enough posts yet - my email is parkinsonb2 at gmail dot com.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Planning to get a few rides in this week. Love annual leave! Tuesday morning, Wednesday morning (both from around 9:30am) and the usual 6:30 Thursday evening.

Let me know if anyone is keen!!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

BP-29 said:


> Hi Emerson, great work and well done for putting this together. I'd be very interested in getting involved in this and helping out in any way I can. I can't PM you as I don't have enough posts yet - my email is parkinsonb2 at gmail dot com.


Thanks BP & Haydn, you're both on the list. I will send you out a copy of my initial email by Wednesday.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

As I crossed the river on this morning’s ride, I found that someone has damaged the Parks Vic signs regarding the bridges.
As the photos show, two of the signs have been ripped off. I doubt it was wind as the notices were still at the base of the star pickets. I will be back out tomorrow with some cable ties!
This sort of stuff does not help the process of obtaining some compromise or legality of the use of the trails, so if you know who did this, please educate them on the correct way to handle the situation!


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

Oh........and the trails are getting awesomer and awesomer with this weather!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Progress*

I have received an invitation from the Ranger at Plenty Gorge to a meeting on Saturday 17/11/12. He has asked that we start with a small group of local riders who have an immediate interest in the Park, to which I agreed.

Any of you who fit that description, please PM me with your email address so I can circulate the invitation to you accordingly.

Thanks,
Emerson


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

The main bridge over the creek has now been removed and will be kept safe during negiotiations! Be careful if you are coming down the spur track from the north. It's a big gap to clear!


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

So do you mean the river crossing plank is still in place?


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

nuclear_powered said:


> So do you mean the river crossing plank is still in place?


The plank was left but the ranger may have removed it today. I might go and check later. Emerson was to get in contact with the ranger today so he may have more info to post.


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## jossa (Jan 10, 2010)

If it has gone, the river is currently crossable at that point if you don't mind getting your feet wet!


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## Noisy_80 (Nov 7, 2012)

Hi Emerson,

I've just stumbled across this thread yesterday, seems like there's a bit happening at the moment!
I've been doing some semi-regular riding out at Plenty Gorge (south of the river, haven't ventured north as yet!) the past 2 years, and I'm keen on keeping up to date and being involved as able with discussions with the park ranger etc.
My email is a[dot]noye[at]backinmotion[dot]com[dot]au

Cheers,
Andrew


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

jossa said:


> The plank was left but the ranger may have removed it today. I might go and check later. Emerson was to get in contact with the ranger today so he may have more info to post.


Hi everyone,

Sorry I hadn't reported earlier. I believe the Ranger was happy with the fact that the high bridge was removed. I told him we had left the plank in place and he didn't seem too concerned about that - he didn't say he would be removing it either. I haven't been over there since we took the bridge away, so I can't say whether the plank is still in place.

At this stage I have invited about a dozen riders to the meeting which will be held with the Ranger on the 24th of November. Even if only half turn up, we will have a good representation there on the day.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

I presume the gully bridge was of the main concern due to it's high nature and the fact you could come into it quite fast.

But anyways, the plank across the river is still in place, if you can find it through all the bush:


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

*Notes from yesterday's meeting with Parks Vic*

Meeting with Parks Victoria Rangers regarding mountain-biking in Plenty Gorge
24/11/2012 Ranger's Office, South Morang

Present:
Barry Coombes, PV Ranger
Garry French, PV Regional Planner
Emerson Thistlethwaite, MTB Melbourne
Casper, local rider, also Smiths Gully MBC
Troy Bussell, Cycle House
Martin Boland, Dividing Ranges MBC (Lysterfield)
Sean Milligan, Super Cycle
Brendan Matthews, local rider
Dave & Judith Anton, local riders
Simon Giosserano, local rider

At the Ranger's invitation we met to discuss opportunities for mountain-biking in Plenty Gorge Park. Garry French gave a presentation on the main issues of focus for Parks Victoria, and made reference to the Plenty Gorge Master Plan, which is available on the parkweb here:
http://parkweb.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0018/313425/Plenty-Gorge-Parklands-Master-Plan-1994.pdf

Parks Victoria:
PV is responsible for environmental conservation and cultural heritage in the Park. There are several species of rare and endangered fauna and flora in the area, which must be preserved and carefully managed. There are also sites of cultural significance, including pre-contact Aboriginal settlements and later historical developments. These sites need to be protected as well. 
Of course, a key concern is the safety of Park users.
PV & DSE are developing state-wide guidelines for MTB on public lands - and the process involves consultation with MTB advocacy groups including Yarra Ranges MBC - however until those guidelines are formalised, we need to negotiate locally with Rangers to agree on where MTB riding will occur in our local Parks. Garry French acknowledged that they are aware that this occurs already, and that a blanket ban simply will not work, either for MTB riders, or for PV. It seems to be that the state-wide guidelines will likely include the consultation process at each site, so our meeting with the Rangers is in line with the plan which is being made.
 
What PV proposes:
A draft MTB loop has been devised by the Rangers, which provides for a singletrack loop (including smaller loop options) on the part of the Park which is bounded by Oatlands Rd in the east, Blue Lake in the west, Memorial Drive to the north, and Valley View Ct to the south (and the private property which extends west from the end of Valley View Ct - that property which has the motocross track). 
There is also a proposal to develop a shared-use trail along the pipeline easement which runs south-east from the reservoir tank, down to the corner of Valley View Ct and along McLaughlins Lane, meeting with the other easement along Sugar Gum Bvd, which is where the Plenty River Trail currently ends. This shared-use path would create a link between the existing bike path network and the picnic area at Yellow Gum Park, and it would be separate to the more natural singletrack favoured by adventurous MTB riders.
Also shown on the map is a proposed trail, pencilled in as "walkers only??", which runs along the fire trail from the gate on Oatlands Rd (at the corner of Mackelroy Rd), up past the corner of the private property with the moto track, and then south/southwest down the spur. The old 'alphabet track' (marked with posts showing letters, A, B, C, etc) for walkers has taken that route in the past.
Garry suggested that there are opportunities for some small built structures, such as low board-walks and small bridges, to get across wet areas identified in the proposed loop - and we agreed that the best kind of trails are low-impact, sustainable, natural trails, with minimal man-made or obvious built structures. Of course, funding impacts heavily on what will be possible, but having riders appearing as a valid user group, with significant numbers, makes a difference to this.

Why?
One reason that this particular parcel of land was suggested as suitable for recreation is that it has all been cleared in the past, and there is no significant high-value conservation area there. Other parts of the Park do contain environmentally important, remnant, natural growth - but this part doesn't present the same conflicts between conservation and recreation.

Costs:
Any trails or proposed trails will need to be assessed for impacts on sites of cultural and environmental significance. Such issues may not yet be known. There is considerable cost involved in assessing Aboriginal heritage values, and this will be a factor in completing any proposed works.
Costs of trail-building and maintenance are obviously of concern to PV. As MTB riders, we indicated that we could reasonably expect to run working bees and do our own maintenance as may be required, as has recently happened in the past at other sites, such as Panton Hill - and this would significantly reduce the costs to PV.

What about what's there already?
In regard to the existing network of trails, the Ranger asked that we provide detailed maps of all those trails which currently get ridden - and that we strongly discourage the creation of any new trails for the time being. By providing a comprehensive list of trails in use, PV will be able to (eventually) assess each of those trails for feasibility. It is expected that not all of them will be viable - if there are environmental, cultural, conservation or safety concerns, those concerns will need to be properly addressed. If MTB riders show that we can abide by the rules of the Park, it is more likely that further facilities will be made available. If, on the other hand, closed trails continue to be ridden, it will not help our cause.

Crossing the Plenty River. 
Any structure for crossing the river (be it a ford, a bridge, or anything else for the purpose) must meet stringent requirements of Melbourne Water - which include being a single-span bridge more than 300mm above the 100-year flood level. This basically rules out any structure being built across the Plenty between Gorge Rd and the old steel pipe bridge which crosses next to the Plenty River Trail near Lear Ct, off Corowa Cres. The existing fording points will not be improved or recommended, to my understanding. There is a possibility that the old pipe bridge may be used to create a shared-use crossing point, however the steep descent down the pipeline easement on its western side is of concern to PV. There was also some suggestion that another crossing point, over the creek which runs alongside the Plenty River Trail near Palpera Terrace, might be considered for an alternative entry point - however the Park terrain is very steep in that area, and this would require considerable investigation.

The South Side.
The trails on the southern side of the Plenty River, between Kariboo Grove and Janefield Drive, were noted by the Rangers as being predominantly very well-made and sustainable. It was also indicated that this area is already heavy in traffic, including MTB riders, walkers and runners, and that this traffic will only increase once the housing development around University Hill is completed. PV is constructing a shared-use trail between the eastern end of the development and Linacre Drive.
The fact that young riders often build jumps and cut new trails in the bush around this area is a known concern. We discussed ideas like creating an area for dirt jumps - the Ranger suggested originally that there would be room for something like this near the Yellow Gum picnic area, but given that most of its users would probably have no access to motor transport, or any desire to ride the distance to get there, this would be better placed near the Watsonia/Greensborough/Bundoora end of the Park.

What's next?
The MTB riders will provide the PV Rangers with .gpx files, or other GPS data, showing where we currently ride. Also, a 'wish list' for the proposed MTB park area: what we want from it.
The MTB community will also promote the consultation process which has started, and strongly discourage people from creating any new trails, committing to honour any closures deemed necessary by PV.
PV Rangers will endeavour to assess all of those trails and advise what must be closed due to their concerns and responsibilities.

I will keep you all informed as developments occur.
Cheers,
Emerson


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Had a good ride out there today, hot and dusty.

One thing i noticed was that the rock in the ground at the gully where the bridge once was has started eroding and has now formed a layer of loose rubble on the surface of the hill making it slippery and dangerous headed down the hill. 
Does anyone know if it is possible to head along the gully further before crossing, possibly up the gated dirt section of Happy Hollow Drive, and connect to the Port Lane Climb/Descent strava segment?

Also i lost the contents of my saddle bag, possbily on White Cow. Nothing major, a couple CO2s and a multi-tool. Finders keepers.


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

sedifus said:


> Does anyone know if it is possible to head along the gully further before crossing, possibly up the gated dirt section of Happy Hollow Drive, and connect to the Port Lane Climb/Descent strava segment?


Unfortunately not without straying onto private property - so no.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

cowpat said:


> Unfortunately not without straying onto private property - so no.


Hmmmm...

Local pointed this out to me:









https://i.imgur.com/PyCLdrz.png


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Wouldn't mind finding some existing tracks around the gully rather than up the ridge..


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

PM sent.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

Looks like it will be left alone until parks takes care of it


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

sedifus said:


> Wouldn't mind finding some existing tracks around the gully rather than up the ridge..


Agreed. And that map does seem to indicate a possibility of going across the gully quite a bit further up it.
Problem is that Parks have distinctly asked us not to make any new trails until they have had the chance to assess the existing ones. This knowledge is good, in that it gives us options to present when the inevitable closure of the spur trail is flagged - but for the meanwhile, perhaps we can put up some signage alerting users to the danger at the base of the climb.


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## Stuartaus (Jul 28, 2011)

Could someone give me a brief rundown on what the plan is for Plenty gorge?
It is a really amazing place!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Stuartaus said:


> Could someone give me a brief rundown on what the plan is for Plenty gorge?
> It is a really amazing place!


Hi mate,

No news as yet. The status quo has remained since we pulled down the 'dangerous' bridge. I will chase up Parks Vic this week to see if they have any news for us.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

emerthis said:


> Hi mate,
> 
> No news as yet. The status quo has remained since we pulled down the 'dangerous' bridge. I will chase up Parks Vic this week to see if they have any news for us.
> 
> ...


Any news yet Emerson? Was out today and some trails need a bit of a clean up. I'd love to put my hand up to be some sort of maintenance leader for the area but in a week and a half i'll be on a flight to Canada to ride Whistler bike park for 3 months missing our winter.

Although it bucketed down over the weekend the tracks fared pretty well. It is the main stuff that is wet, gullies are all flowing with water, and then also much of the dust and trail litter is holding water on the riding surfaces making it marshy. The only sections that i'd avoid are the climb at the start of am i lost reverse, following the u turn in the gully on the same segment where it flows downhill, the option 2 part of port lane descent in the razor grass and dry creek bed which has now become simply creek.

Two notes though:
The gully on the "happy hollow" segment towards the end has caved in further uphill, so be aware if you're riding it.
The gully where the bridge was removed is very difficult to climb now, the sides are slippery, muddy and steep.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

sedifus said:


> Any news yet Emerson? Was out today and some trails need a bit of a clean up. I'd love to put my hand up to be some sort of maintenance leader for the area but in a week and a half i'll be on a flight to Canada to ride Whistler bike park for 3 months missing our winter.
> 
> Although it bucketed down over the weekend the tracks fared pretty well. It is the main stuff that is wet, gullies are all flowing with water, and then also much of the dust and trail litter is holding water on the riding surfaces making it marshy. The only sections that i'd avoid are the climb at the start of am i lost reverse, following the u turn in the gully on the same segment where it flows downhill, the option 2 part of port lane descent in the razor grass and dry creek bed which has now become simply creek.
> 
> ...


Still nothing guys. I don't have time to get on the phone with them at the moment.

I haven't been over the north side at least a couple of weeks now - but I'd espect some damage after that weather. Of more concern is the saplings that have been pushed down/broken off as you come down the old middle line, where you always had to slow to get your bars through the trees. I'm tempted to go and plant a couple of concrete posts in there to stop people taking short cuts - I hate it when people who can't ride it ruin it for people who can!

That climb out of the gully (Am I lost rev.) that the runners turned into a quagmire last year is always treacherous once it gets wet - but it usually holds up pretty well, it's got a solid base. Though if you're referring to the long switchback climb after that u-turn gully I'm surprised to hear it might be getting bad - but then you say 'reverse' - we don't usually ride it back from Blue Lake. That's why the detour at the end of the firetrail is there.

The dry creek bed was never going to be a sustainable trail. The one that runs parallel to it, on the western side, is the preferred option.

I figured that section on the happy hollow loop would go eventually, as well. Might need to get up there and signpost that, it could be a bit dangerous for anyone not paying enough attention. Maybe some strategically placed logs?

And yes, we know about the spur trail up from the ex-bridge. It simply has to be walked, at least for the first 50-100 metres. And it's not going to be pretty getting in/out of the gully either!

Thanks for the heads-up =)


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

sedifus said:


> .... but in a week and a half i'll be on a flight to Canada to ride Whistler bike park for 3 months missing our winter.


I know I don't know you, but .... as amicably as I can put it: You lucky bastard. Give Black Velvet my regards.


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## sedifus (Jun 13, 2012)

emerthis said:


> Still nothing guys. I don't have time to get on the phone with them at the moment.
> 
> I haven't been over the north side at least a couple of weeks now - but I'd espect some damage after that weather. Of more concern is the saplings that have been pushed down/broken off as you come down the old middle line, where you always had to slow to get your bars through the trees. I'm tempted to go and plant a couple of concrete posts in there to stop people taking short cuts - I hate it when people who can't ride it ruin it for people who can!
> 
> ...


Thats alright Emerson, understandable.

You are correct that the middle line, DH towards the river, has had a lot of saplings come out of it, i saw a motorbike rider there also on that weekend ride and he was coming out of the top of that segment, i'm sure they are as much to blame for the broken trees as any impatient riders.

Both the boggy runners climb (still slippery after a week on the off camber climb out) and the decent post u turn were bad. I found the runners climb as expected and had no plans to ride it but the decent after the u-turn drops down into the gully a bit and a lot of water has been flowing along it, possibly a re-route higher up the hillside? By reverse i mean as the segment name, headed towards the lake.

I think a large amount of logs would be good on the collapsed gully, not just for us riding happy hollow but for those exploring and crossing the gully at full pelt. The tracks there are very clear and look well ridden and it could very easily catch out a rider new to the area.

And to Mr. Nuclear, i will send your regards!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

This just in from the Ranger at Parks Vic:

On-ground assessment of the trail network has now been completed, we now have a much better understanding of what is actually out there. Garry, Angelo and myself are meeting this afternoon to discuss and review the information we have compiled over the past few weeks. We will be in touch in the near future to schedule in a some meetings, I'm predicting these will be a mix of on-site and meeting room. Yes agreed, let's keep communication timely and continuous.

I have spoken with the Ranger by phone today and a bit of email over the last couple of days. Here's a bit of an excerpt from (well, most of) what I had to say:

I saw your signage about the risk removal scheduled to start soon, in the heavily-used part of the park between the old Maroondah pipeline easement and the main fire road, at the southern end of the Park (see linked map). I must say, I was surprised to see how much the 'extreme' trails (with the big jumps) have spread across the area. I must agree that the way those jumps have been built does seem to pose an unnecessary level of risk, and it's certainly not in keeping with the natural forms that most of the more mature mountain-bike community values so highly about the area.

The kind of jumps that have been appearing recently are often referred to as 'doubles', or 'double-jumps' in older jargon. They are comprised of an up-ramp, followed by a gap, and a completely separate down-ramp. They are uncompromising in that failure to negotiate the obstacle successfully carries quite a high risk of injury. There is a way to make these features less prone to risk, as demonstrated at You Yangs Regional Park - simply by filling the gap between the ramps. What you end up with is something that looks much more natural (for example, like an eroded termite mound) - however any trail with this kind of feature needs to be well sign-posted in terms of advisory warnings, and the jumps should be quite clear of surrounding trees, to minimise the chances of an accidental collision.

I think that your proposal for the flat area near the water tank, up towards Yellow Gum (see linked map), is ideally suited to the kind of construction I refer to above - however you will find, as stated by the group at our meeting, that generally the builders of these trails and jumps are local kids, who mostly have no way of accessing the more remote parts of the Park, hence they build near the boundary of the park where the housing estates are located. I am quite sure that you will see a proliferation of this kind of thing once the new development at University Hill and Chancellor has become more established. It can really only be effectively minimised by frequent patrols.

_(and I said this about the spur trail where the gully was originally bridged)_
​I would like to suggest that an alternate route be devised to re-route that trail away from the river, as I don't think the existing alignment is the best possibility - it is certainly challenging for riders and walkers alike, but it's something I hope to discuss in more detail in the near future. I understand that full closure may be a readily practicable solution, but it's not one we find satisfactory, as there is currently no other way to get from one side of the Park to the other without adding close to an hour each way to circumnavigate the Park border from Booyan Crescent, up the long Plenty River Path, filling the missing parts to McLaughlans Lane and Oatlands Rd - regardless of whether it's practical, it ruins the experience. Perhaps one of the old fording points in this area (see linked map) needs to be reinstated, as has occurred recently at Panton Hill and Smiths Gully, or simply rebuilt as a proper causeway to be closed during flood - it would certainly be a great deal less expensive than any bridge. It is evident that there are several points along the river which have been used this way in the past, and the '100-year floodline' argument notwithstanding, there is no reason why they could not be again. For example, look at this one on Kalparrin Avenue (see linked map), in central urban Greensborough!

I also noted more signage around the area of the collapsed road across the erosion gully near the old Janefield site. I think this is entirely appropriate, given a quick inspection (from a safe distance) reveals
that the concrete surface has subsided considerably in the past month or so since I was there last, and it's clearly very unstable. Well aside from the interests of trail-users, I would like to see remediation work undertaken with that entire gully, as it's an eyesore in its current state, littered with broken concrete and other old building debris. Perhaps the developers of the estate could be approached with regard to this? I can see that great lengths have been gone to, to stabilise and beautify other gullies (at the very top end) where users of the shared path might see them, but what has been done certainly appears to have no impact at all on erosion or image further down those same gullies. Indeed, the building debris from the new estates has turned parts of the park into a rubbish tip, in the opinion of many of the people I use the Park with.

Referring back to the interests of mountain-bikers, I think the section of trail closest to the old Janefield site, rather than being closed completely, could be easily re-routed so as not to cross the eroded
gully at all, keeping to the lower bank at a mandated minimum distance from its edge. This work would take half a day or less, with some volunteers using rakes and perhaps a machete to take out the taller
weeds (I'm sure they're weeds - I've seen them sprayed by Parks before). With respect to your statement that the trail network appears to have grown extensively, I agree with you about what I assure you has been built by local kids at the very southern edge of the Park, however I can't really identify any other new trails, especially on the Yellow Gum side of the river. I know one old trail has been re-opened, and another old alignment is coming back into use to take pressure off a heavily eroded section near the top of the spur line on the way up to the water tank. There is also a temporary detour (which may turn out to be a more sustainable and interesting route) around one trail which drops straight down into a gully and straight out up the other side, near where an old vertical mine shaft has been fenced off. I believe that such realignment is in the interest of the Park, although I do agree that whoever did it hasn't waited for the ongoing consultation to occur, and as much as the outcome may be better for everyone, it doesn't paint the best picture of co-operation.

So the net result is that things are happening, but we need to keep working with Parks on this. Yes, it's slow, but we're lucky not to have had the whole area closed off under a blanket ban - I think this shows that Parks are willing to work with us, and I expect we will be given an opportunity to meet again with the Rangers very soon, to discuss what happens next.

Meanwhile, if you see that a trail has been closed, please stay off it. The vast majority of the trails used by MTBers in the Park are still open for us to ride - and they sure are getting a lot of use lately! The network is in brilliant condition at the moment, so let's enjoy it as it is for the time being, and look forward to developing the area into a mecca for mountain-bikers!

Cheers,
Emerson


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

Firstly, great work in continuing your consultations and dialog with Parks. It's the tireless efforts of people like you who allow for great places like this to be available to the masses.

If I could just pass comment on a few of your points.

_"I must agree that the way those jumps have been built does seem to pose an unnecessary level of risk, and it's certainly not in keeping with the natural forms that most of the more mature mountain-bike community values so highly about the area.

The kind of jumps that have been appearing recently are often referred to as 'doubles', or 'double-jumps' in older jargon. They are comprised of an up-ramp, followed by a gap, and a completely separate down-ramp. They are uncompromising in that failure to negotiate the obstacle successfully carries quite a high risk of injury. There is a way to make these features less prone to risk, as demonstrated at You Yangs Regional Park - simply by filling the gap between the ramps. What you end up with is something that looks much more natural (for example, like an eroded termite mound) - however any trail with this kind of feature needs to be well sign-posted in terms of advisory warnings, and the jumps should be quite clear of surrounding trees, to minimise the chances of an accidental collision"._

Who deems that the jumps you mentioned pose an unacceptable risk? The level of risk is subjective and based on riders skill. Whilst the jumps that are there are what I would describe as mildly "ghetto", they are not big, nor are they dangerous. A gap between the jumps is an exciting feature that skilled riders enjoy.

Making a thinly veiled swipe at the younger generation over your assumption that mature riders do not approve of jumps, lends you to loose a margin of credibility.

For what it's worth, I am 33 years old, and whilst I have not built any of those jumps, I certainly have maintained them to the best of my ability and I ride them regularly. That is, until recently when an unknown crew have gone to town on building the new jumps. Some of which are very well built, and others not so. But to blanket say they are an "unacceptable risk" and not for "mature riders" is a completely false assumption, and one I take great offense with.

I don't know if you were saying these things to privy favor with Parks, and I can understand why you would do that. There has to be some give and take in the negotiations and to keep them on side.

May I ask who decided on what jumps would stay, what would be removed and what would be turned into a table top? From briefly looking at the paint markings today, there is not a single double left, everything is a table and a hip jump is to be straightened. Strikes me that a person with little understanding and skill made those recommendations.

I will leave this by saying, having some beginner, entry level jumps is better than having no jumps at all. But removing all challenge will just result in the less "mature" people building new unauthorized jump lines elsewhere in the park. Appropriate signage of the obstacles and signs to not litter, along with some decent work to make the area safer (ie removing the 1 metre high stumps that some moron decided to chop down, chop or remove protruding stakes in the ground and re-enforce the existing jumps and side walls) would suffice.

One last thing, is it possible for Parks to erect more signs regarding the moto's? They are out of control lately, and I can't help but notice the lack of appropriate deterrence. I made a request to the Victoria Police Special Solo branch last week to patrol. Will wait and see if that amounts to anything.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> Firstly, great work in continuing your consultations and dialog with Parks. It's the tireless efforts of people like you who allow for great places like this to be available to the masses.


Thanks mate, it is tiring advocacy work, and although there's no physical labour involved (yet), it certainly takes some effort. I know that people in this forum appreciate the effort, and I thank you for the recognition, as it's not solely for my own benefit.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> If I could just pass comment on a few of your points.
> 
> _"I must agree that the way those jumps have been built does seem to pose an unnecessary level of risk, and it's certainly not in keeping with the natural forms that most of the more mature mountain-bike community values so highly about the area.
> _


I was responding directly to the Ranger's concerns, as emailed to me directly. Perhaps I should have simply cut and pasted the whole, multi-message, epic conversation in to the forum, but I thought I should cut it down a bit.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> Who deems that the jumps you mentioned pose an unacceptable risk?
> The level of risk is subjective and based on riders skill. Whilst the jumps that are there are what I would describe as mildly "ghetto", they are not big, nor are they dangerous. A gap between the jumps is an exciting feature that skilled riders enjoy.


The Ranger has made that judgement. I know there are plenty of riders out there who are capable, not only of riding the jumps, but also of determining (like me) that they are not capable.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> Making a thinly veiled swipe at the younger generation over your assumption that mature riders do not approve of jumps, lends you to lose a margin of credibility.


I made no such assumption, nor was I having a go at the younger riders - but I can certainly see how you came to interpret it that way.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> For what it's worth, I am 33 years old, and whilst I have not built any of those jumps, I certainly have maintained them to the best of my ability and I ride them regularly.


Likewise, I love the old jumps line, and it's part of my usual loop.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> That is, until recently when an unknown crew have gone to town on building the new jumps. Some of which are very well built, and others not so. But to blanket say they are an "unacceptable risk" and not for "mature riders" is a completely false assumption, and one I take great offense with.
> 
> I don't know if you were saying these things to privy favor with Parks, and I can understand why you would do that. There has to be some give and take in the negotiations and to keep them on side.


I have spread the word to the parties that attended the initial Plenty Gorge meeting (I think it was over a year ago now), and although you and I don't know who's been building the jumps, I can confirm that it was done by younger riders, thanks to some follow-up discussion which has happened since.

I have been doing my level best to agree with what I'm being told by Parks - after all, they have the position of power in these negotiations - but I am also trying to provide representation from all riders, be they young kids, teenagers, or the less transitory recreational riders and XC junkies, like you and me.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> May I ask who decided on what jumps would stay, what would be removed and what would be turned into a table top? From briefly looking at the paint markings today, there is not a single double left, everything is a table and a hip jump is to be straightened. Strikes me that a person with little understanding and skill made those recommendations.


The Ranger has decided what's acceptable, and what isn't. I don't know whether he has yet had any opportunity to involve the environmental officer or anyone with engineering skills (both of which he tells me he has access to).

He has asked for consultation to occur between himself and the builders, so he can show some good faith while explaining why he considers some of the risks as unacceptable. I have left this in the hands of a rider who is in contact with these builders, and I have faith that the consultation will occur - provided the builders (or their parents) are prepared to step up to the negotiating table.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> I will leave this by saying, having some beginner, entry level jumps is better than having no jumps at all. But removing all challenge will just result in the less "mature" people building new unauthorized jump lines elsewhere in the park. Appropriate signage of the obstacles and signs to not litter, along with some decent work to make the area safer (ie removing the 1 metre high stumps that some moron decided to chop down, chop or remove protruding stakes in the ground and re-enforce the existing jumps and side walls) would suffice.


And you won't catch me disagreeing with that. While signage may be erected re littering and some of the more dangerous stumps may be removed, they are not yet in a position to be seen to encourage the building of jumps - and this is why, despite acknowledging that it's an easy and probably acceptable solution, they will not be doing any work towards 'building' as such. They have a proposal to provide an area specifically set aside for a jump park - but what I can tell you is that, if there are going to be any doubles, they will be roll-able doubles. This is not my idea, but I must agree that a sheer face will inevitably hurt some fool who either isn't aware of what's there or of their own lack of ability - and this is precisely what Parks define as an 'unacceptable risk'.
Should we have the good fortune to either be left to our own devices, as has been the status quo for many years more than I've lived nearby, or for the Park to be turned into a bona fide MTB facility, then the approach to signage and acceptable risk may change. Until then, however, we're pretty much at their mercy.



Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> One last thing, is it possible for Parks to erect more signs regarding the moto's? They are out of control lately, and I can't help but notice the lack of appropriate deterrence. I made a request to the Victoria Police Special Solo branch last week to patrol. Will wait and see if that amounts to anything.


I have mentioned the moto problem in my discussions with the Ranger, and it is one of which they are well aware - but quite limited in resources to deal with the problem. I was advised that the moto problem at our southern end of the Park is quite minimal in comparison with the issue up at the other end, which is where more efforts are currently being focused. The Special Solo police branch was mentioned, but they are apparently completely swamped with work elsewhere. That said, there was something said along the lines that we can expect a crackdown on motos in the Park by summer.
I have referenced possible trail-proofing options as suggested on other forums, but the majority of the problem is seen to be occurring on the fire road network, and there's currently little they can do about that.

Finally,
I can assure you that my first response to the email I got recently, that re-started this discussion, was not as calm and considered as the one I have excerpted above - but as the only person who's really been prepared to do the actual advocacy, I have to tread with a certain amount of caution and play my diplomatic best. It's an area we all share incredible passion for, and it's that passion, combined with our maturity, which will see us come out with what we ultimately want.


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

I completely understand everything you are saying. Especially the part where you referred to re-commencing discussions. I wrote the above straight after coming in from the ride, and my choice of argument was quite emotive. You didn't mention it, but if you were offended in anyway, then I apologize.

When I got to the jumps trail head and saw the sign, I admit that I knew it was coming. I have found a few guys building, especially over school holidays and I have had some polite words of advice. In fact, I remember telling one group, that sometimes "less is more", and if you keep adding to an area that has been aloud to remain for so long, that they will draw too much attention to it and Parks will shut it down.... Well, seems that was pretty accurate.

Anyway, we can only work with the situation that is presented to us. It is a difficult political game, one that takes a person of great character to fight for on behalf of others. And you can't please everyone, compromises must be made.

Good work mate.

P.S. I originally planned to attend the meeting last year, but had a conflicting prior arrangement. I am still interested in helping in dealings with Parks and or track work. Just let me know if there is something needed.

Cheers,

Tristan.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> I completely understand everything you are saying. Especially the part where you referred to re-commencing discussions. I wrote the above straight after coming in from the ride, and my choice of argument was quite emotive. You didn't mention it, but if you were offended in anyway, then I apologize.
> 
> When I got to the jumps trail head and saw the sign, I admit that I knew it was coming. I have found a few guys building, especially over school holidays and I have had some polite words of advice. In fact, I remember telling one group, that sometimes "less is more", and if you keep adding to an area that has been aloud to remain for so long, that they will draw too much attention to it and Parks will shut it down.... Well, seems that was pretty accurate.
> 
> ...


No offence taken mate. When we can involve people with hard work or meetings, I will put out the call.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

News just in today, from the Ranger directly:

An update on where things are at - At our meeting on Tuesday, Garry, Angelo and myself began the task of reviewing the trail network and assessing it in accordance with Parks Victoria’s, Public Land Mountain Bike Guidelines, these only became available in to us in “final” format in June. The next step for us is to overlay flora and fauna, and cultural heritage maps over the maps provided by yourself. From this, we will have a much better understanding of what can legally remain, and what cannot. Once this exercise in completed, we will be in touch to discuss further. I would see future discussions being a combination of on-site and office meetings. Therefore, can I request that you remain patient and continue to enjoy the Park.

I'll keep you all informed with what I know as it comes to hand.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

emerthis said:


> ... and cultural heritage maps....


I predict that really great bit of trail overlooking the river far below, that passes by what appears to have been an old house (the remains of the chimney and stairs), will be marked as heritage. I've always wondered if it was some very old settlers house or something, and found it strange that it wasn't already cordoned off.

Or maybe it's just some house that nobody cares about and we've nothing to worry about. Hope for the latter.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

nuclear_powered said:


> I predict that really great bit of trail overlooking the river far below, that passes by what appears to have been an old house (the remains of the chimney and stairs), will be marked as heritage. I've always wondered if it was some very old settlers house or something, and found it strange that it wasn't already cordoned off.
> 
> Or maybe it's just some house that nobody cares about and we've nothing to worry about. Hope for the latter.


I would hope that it would warrant some signage about what was there and why it's significant. So many riders ask what was there, and I can't tell them. This makes me a sad panda.

I think the technical nature of the trail right near the cliff edge is probably a bigger concern for them - but you're right, it hasn't been cordoned off (yet) - so here's hoping!


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

nuclear_powered said:


> I predict that really great bit of trail overlooking the river far below, that passes by what appears to have been an old house (the remains of the chimney and stairs), will be marked as heritage. I've always wondered if it was some very old settlers house or something, and found it strange that it wasn't already cordoned off.
> 
> Or maybe it's just some house that nobody cares about and we've nothing to worry about. Hope for the latter.


With luck a bit of fencing would be sufficient for protection. I think it's the old RAAF base - from the Victorian Heritage Register (go here:Victorian Heritage Database and search for "Janefield 13 RAAF Complex"):

Janefield 13 RAAF Complex

Location

224-228 PLENTY ROAD BUNDOORA, Whittlesea City

Show Place Maps and Streetview
Heritage Inventory (HI) Number

H7922-0119

For further details, contact the local council or go to Planning Schemes Online.
Level of Significance

For public view

Listed by 
Heritage Inventory Citation

High - medium

Statement of Significance

History

Heritage Inventory History of Site: Dating to the 1940s - a training establishment for the RAAF and WRAAF. Tin buildings were removed when the site fell into disuse. Scouts may have used the site subsequently.
Description

less
RAAF complex. Several ruins of buildings, concrete foundations, drains, steps. Dating to the 1940s, it served as a training establishment for the RAAF and WRAAF. Tin buildings were removed when the site fell into disuse.

Janefield 13, at 224-228 Plenty Road Bundroora,is a RAAF complex characterised by several ruins of buildings, concrete foundations, drains and steps. Dating to the 1940s, it served as a training establishment for the RAAF and WRAAF. Tin buildings were removed when the site fell into disuse.

Usage/Former Usage: Heritage Inventory Present Use: Vacant

Year Construction Started 1940
Heritage Act Categories Heritage Inventory Site
Municipality WHITTLESEA CITY


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## cowpat (Apr 13, 2008)

emerthis said:


> I would hope that it would warrant some signage about what was there and why it's significant. So many riders ask what was there, and I can't tell them. This makes me a sad panda.
> 
> I think the technical nature of the trail right near the cliff edge is probably a bigger concern for them - but you're right, it hasn't been cordoned off (yet) - so here's hoping!


You can be a happy panda now. 

I've fallen off right at the worst spot near there (pedal strike). I was unharmed, fortunately the slope is not really that steep when you're actually down there, it looks steeper from above.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

cowpat said:


> You can be a happy panda now.
> 
> I've fallen off right at the worst spot near there (pedal strike). I was unharmed, fortunately the slope is not really that steep when you're actually down there, it looks steeper from above.


We've had several people fall off at that exact same spot. High drama, but no consequence. It's actually a great spot for challenging your balance skills and laughing at failed attempts, due to the minimal risk involved with actually falling off.

Very interesting about the RAAF base. Looking at that now.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

To clarify some of what's caught the Ranger's attention, here are some pics of the area which needs the most work. Why is there so much rubbish around? Is it really necessary to lay out bits of carpet, and leave plastic bottles, drums, and other junk around? If you want to take photos of people doing jumps, surely you could just go to the tip if you want it looking like this?

This is one of the signs near the jumps. I don't remember it saying anything about trails being shut down - which is surprising, to be honest.








This pile of dirt (and other rubbish, house bricks, etc) is not local soil. The original jump was a pile of local soil - so who's bringing building waste in to build jumps?








Why the carpet? You can't just dump rubbish in the Park and expect the Rangers not to do anything about it.








This one may have been left alone if the hole after the kicker hadn't been dug out, making it un-rollable. The waist-height stump next to it is also a recipe for disaster.








Why were these trees cut at all in the first place? Now they're marked for removal, because they shouldn't have been left more than a couple of inches out of the ground.








This one shows car debris which has been there for years (pity the owner of the 73 Civic which must have been stripped hereabouts) - but it's just an example of the Park looking more like a rubbish tip than an environmental showcase.








The pics below are of the closed trail at the University Hill end of the XC loop at the southern end of the Park. Apparently someone did ride their bike off there, hurt themselves pretty badly, and were only found by Parks staff when they happened to be there assessing the damage.














I have suggested we re-route the trail away from the area, but this is still a negotiation in progress.

Hopefully these few pics help to explain why Parks have felt the need to take some action. Please contact either me, or the Ranger directly if you want to be involved with the discussion about how things should be done.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## Yippee_Ki_YayMF (Jan 30, 2011)

It's so easy to get vehicles into that place. I see and hear them from my place all the time. At least once a month some idiot gets stuck at the bottom of the pipeline fireroad near the pipe bridge. I can't help but laugh at how stupid they, yet how little Parks have done to appropriately manage access. Entry points allowed to remain open, no signs to deter vehicles and/or motorbikes.

Personally I think it is a complete cop out by Parks. There are many far greater environmental issues going on in there and they appear to have chosen mountain bikers as scape goats. Truth is, they have sat on their arse's for far too long and let these things to accumulate.

The erosion, vehicles, motorbikes and rubbish dumping is a bit out of control and I have never seen a Parks vehicle patrolling in there.

In reference to you comments of the jumps, where you say to larger double would have been left alone if the center hadn't been dug out, well that is where they got the dirt from to build the jumps to begin with. It has always been like that. It was not designed to be rollable. Rollable jumps encourage damage to the lip and reduce the effectiveness of the jump.

The pile of dirt/garbage that was imported, was not imported to make a jump. It was dumped rubbish by an unrelated (to mtb'ing) individual. There was never a jump there to begin with either. But the rubbish was dumped in the middle of the track and people have now ridden over it and packed in it, giving the perception that it was on purpose for bikes. Truth is, that pile of rubbish impedes your run in to the true jump line.

Carpet is frequently used on dirt jumps to stop the lip and landings getting so beat up. It is often used in places that have very dry dirt and/or have difficulty accessing water. It may look unsightly, and yes it is technically an introduced object, but it is not dumped or abandoned.

I still shake my head at those tree stumps. I remember swearing out loud when I first saw them soon after they had been cut. What a complete idiot to have done that. I also don't like seeing star pickets being brought it and left protruding from the ground. Very dangerous.

Anyway, it is what it is. Will wait and see what Parks decide to do now.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

Yippee_Ki_YayMF said:


> ... and I have never seen a Parks vehicle patrolling in there.


I used to see them quite often on the north side. It was always one dude in a 4WD, just cruising around the tracks in there. He'd give us a nod as we flew past him, and that was that. Reckon I saw him (or someone else in same truck) at least half a dozen times.

But I haven't been over that side for quite a while. And I too have never seen a vehicle, or Parks employee, in the southside area at all.

Hope we get the opportunity to get in there and clean the whole place up one day. Such an opportunity for both a kickarse XC network, and some really good Cressy-style runs.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

I reckon doing a bit of a rubbish clean-up is a great idea. Whether we wait for Parks or not to do it. It's probably better if we can do it with them, just to show the full extent of the debris from the housing estates, and perhaps also how little is being left trail-side by riders and walkers.

The short and sharp rocky gully crossing on the south side has suffered a bit recently. I hope to approach them with a suggestion to use some of the old pipes from the gully next to the broken road, to improve that little crossing permanently. Meanwhile, take care when you go into it.


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## nuclear_powered (Apr 18, 2007)

emerthis said:


> The short and sharp rocky gully crossing on the south side has suffered a bit recently.


The one you cross after heading down from the aforementioned historic house/tin shed area? Where you turn hard left immediately after crossing?

On a side note: I just noticed on the YY FB page they're holding an IMBA trail building workshop in November. Might be a good opportunity to skill up before anything happens in the gorge area? I personally have only contributed about 50m of the southside XC loop, and it's held up pretty well so far, but I'd like to know how to do it all proper and stuff


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

nuclear_powered said:


> The one you cross after heading down from the aforementioned historic house/tin shed area? Where you turn hard left immediately after crossing?
> 
> On a side note: I just noticed on the YY FB page they're holding an IMBA trail building workshop in November. Might be a good opportunity to skill up before anything happens in the gorge area? I personally have only contributed about 50m of the southside XC loop, and it's held up pretty well so far, but I'd like to know how to do it all proper and stuff


Yep, that's the one. I shifted a few rocks back into place yesterday arvo, but it needs some major remedial works.

The trail building workshop would be good to have under the belt/s of one or more of the local crew. While we don't want to end up with an overly sanitised, 3-foot wide bikepath, certainly some of the building skills would be nice to know about.

By the way, there will be a few of us riding from Kariboo Grove tonight, likely at 6.30pm.


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## Stuartaus (Jul 28, 2011)

Sounds like some good things are happening in the area! It would really be an amazing place for a proper trail network


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Barry Coombes, Ranger from Parks Vic, is going to attend the IMBA Sustainable Trail Building workshop hosted by Red Hill Riders next month! MTBA may also be there.

I think this is pretty good news for all the riders who use the Gorge, because he will get to see how experienced trail builders work together with land managers to create something we will all be able to enjoy for a long time to come.

He has also asked if we (the riders who use the Gorge) could start an organised group, like Smiths Gully MTB, like Lysterfield District Trail Riders, like YYMTB, for example.
I know what's involved with getting such a club running - there's a fair bit of paperwork and a few small start-up costs (registering business name & ABN, incorporating the association with a constitution, President, Vice-president, Secretary, Treasurer & Public Officer), and it needs to have a postal address too - so a PO Box might also need to be acquired. Other members of the Facebook group (Plenty Gorge MTB), and readers here on MTBR & on Rotorburn, are also well-versed in running these things - but what we need to do is get organised. I can't spare much time myself, due to my heavy involvement with MTB Melbourne and a new baby girl in the family, but I'm happy to help out as best I can, and I will put in some of the start-up costs if need be.

The Ranger has also asked about organising another meeting with me, to discuss progress, so I will keep you posted as that comes along.

Cheers,
Emerson


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Notes from meeting with Parks Vic Rangers re mountain-biking in Plenty Gorge

I met today with Rangers Barry Coombes and Garry French at the Park Office in Gordons Rd, South Morang. We discussed how things have progressed up to this point (good things, bad things, and general observations along the way), and started to consider how the future of mountain biking in Plenty Gorge Park might be best approached.

Barry recently attended an IMBA trail building workshop hosted by Red Hill Riders on the Mornington Peninsula. He had with him an IMBA book that shows best practice in trail design and construction, and some other notes from the two-day presentation. He said he is very interested in applying the principles to the existing trail network in Plenty Gorge, however there are a few things that need to be addressed first.

*Which existing trails will be endorsed? *
This depends on an ongoing assessment of cultural heritage, environmental conservation and sustainability. The Rangers have walked about 14km of the existing trail network between the southern edge of the Park and the Blue Lake lookout. Most of the existing trails appear to be acceptable at first glance.

*Where will the labour and any necessary funding come from?*
Parks Vic has a very limited budget and not many 'men on the ground' to do the works which will be necessary to get the trails to an acceptable standard (where necessary) or to maintain them - so it's necessary to get an organised MTB group together to help out with this stuff.

*What sort of 'organised MTB group' are we talking about here?*
Having a formalised club structure, dedicated to advocacy of mountain biking, trail building and maintenance, and being specific to Plenty Gorge, has several immediate benefits: 
1.	It will give mountain bikers input into the process. It gives us a united voice to speak with, and a way for Parks Vic to communicate with us effectively as a group.
2.	It gives us the opportunity to apply for funding from external bodies, such as MTBA, government and sporting/recreation organisations.
3.	It provides a way for us to work together with Parks Vic to develop a plan as to what exactly we're aiming to achieve, how it will be done (and on what timeframe).
4.	Getting affiliated with MTBA provides riders with benefits including insurance, options for competitive (race) licences, and membership of the larger lobbying body which represents MTB interests throughout Australia.
5.	It enables us to organise working bees and fundraising activities to support trail work in Plenty Gorge.

*Will trails be closed?*
Once the plan is set out, some trails will need to be closed. The aim is to continue to provide an extensive loop with options catering for all levels of rider - so before closing trails, decisions will be made about whether the closure should be temporary or permanent, about whether there are alternative routes available or desirable. It is also intended that this will be done in full consultation with the MTB club.

*Where will the trails be located?*
The existing trail network in the southern end of Plenty Gorge Park, in the area bounded by Memorial Drive on the north, Oatland Rd on the east, the Park's southern boundary near Booyan Crescent, and University Hill/Janefield on the west. There is also scope in future for some revegetated open areas to be included, providing even more space for MTB trails.

*Will all the endorsed trails be "World Trail" styled freeways?*
No. That's not the idea. I have made it quite clear, and the Rangers also understand that the appeal of Plenty Gorge is its 'natural' trails, with embedded rocks, roots, logs and other technical features. Of course, there will be some loops rated as Green - but there already are such trails there, and it will simply be a matter of rating each trail according to technical difficulty and risk, and planning out a way of linking these up so that beginner users can negotiate their way around.
All of the endorsed trails will be marked, signposted and rated. 
There will be trails rated as White, Green, Blue, & Black. Which is which is yet to be determined - that's going to be mostly up to us - but as an example, most fire roads will probably also classify as White trails for beginners and family groups. They'll be two-way, easy, and mostly flat. 
At each trailhead (or entry point to the area of the Park dedicated to MTB) there will be an information sign showing the trail network - much like there is at any other MTB facility around the world.
How will any trail work be done? 
Parks Vic would prefer that the majority of trail work is done by hand, as bringing any earthmoving equipment into the Park (even a mini-digger like a Dingo or DitchWitch) complicates things by needing detailed assessments, months of paperwork, and other bureaucratic shenanigans. Powered wheelbarrows might be acceptable, but digging will need to be done by hand.
Some built structures may be needed - such as small bridges over erosion gullies - however the preferred method will be to make any obstacles rideable, by reinforcement (generally rock armouring) and careful consideration of drainage and erosion.

*Will there be any DH tracks?*
At this stage, no. The Rangers have said that the most sensitive parts of the Park are probably what would be most attractive to a potential DH trail. Also, most DH riders are mobile and able to access other DH-specific facilities. 
However, should the Club choose to advocate the DH cause, I see no reason why this couldn't be explored in future.

*Will there be a freeride park or any North Shore style structures to ride?*
Similarly, not likely. What the Rangers seem to find attractive about XC trails is the minimum of trail maintenance required and minimal deemed risk associated with it.
Again though, this is something the Club could certainly investigate and canvass again in the future.

*What about the dirt jumps?*
This is going to depend on how the affected riders choose to be involved with the Club, for their needs to be properly considered and addressed. If they get on board, their voice will be just as important to the Club's advocacy as that of any other group of riders. However if they choose to work outside the Club structure, Parks Vic will have to work with them as individuals, much as they are doing now.

*So what is the plan?*
At this stage, to get mountain bikers organised into a Plenty Gorge MTB Club.
Next: to get started on planning the future of MTB trails in the Park, together with the Rangers.
Then: start on actual trail works, dividing the Park into manageable chunks and focusing on one area at a time (e.g the area in the southern part of the Park, then the area east and south of the Plenty Service Reservoir, then the area in the west, up towards Blue Lake).

*How do we get involved?*
We need to create a Club - and I see no reason not to call it Plenty Gorge MTB (but I'm not calling the shots). 
The Club will need to have a formal structure, including President, Vice-President, Secretary, and Treasurer. It will need to have a postal address to receive mail.
The Rangers have said that they would encourage the Club to use its meeting room at South Morang, and that the schedule for that room should enable monthly meetings, provided they were booked in advance. The room is air-conditioned, has a white board and chairs & tables.
The Club will also need be a financial entity, as part of its role will be to raise funds and, if applicable, receive monetary grants. So it will need to have a bank account, ABN & TFN.

*First: join the Plenty Gorge MTB Facebook group*
https://www.facebook.com/groups/237754373039580/

I will help organise and coordinate the first meeting. 
At that meeting we will need to nominate and elect the Committee members (President, VP, etc). 
We will need to decide on what the Club's Constitution will be, and start drawing that up.
We will also need to discuss the other administrative business - such as Club name, getting that business name registered, getting the Club registered as an incorporated association, organising bank account, club fees, etc.
I am personally committed to this cause, and I will help as best I can. This is your opportunity to get involved, so jump on board!

Cheers,
Emerson Thistlethwaite, Greensborough.


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

There will be a meeting aimed at creating a Plenty Gorge MTB Club, on Sunday 8th of December 2013m starting at 10am. The meeting will be held at the Parks Vic Offices meeting room at 40 Gordons Rd, Sth Morang.
Please come along if you'd like to be involved.
Cheers,
Emerson


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Anyone who's still watching this thread, please note that things are still progressing, as is the wont of bureaucrats - although I don't see much in the way of responses here, so we'll probably stick to rotorburn and FB for news.
Cheers!


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## emerthis (Jun 17, 2011)

Hi everyone,

Whittlesea Council is involved in measuring up our needs at Plenty Gorge. Please take the time to complete the survey below (in green text), and email to Becky as per the details provided. If you'd like a copy of the MS Word file, similarly you should probably email her for it.

Cheers!

PLENTY GORGE PARK MOUNTAIN BIKE USER SURVEY

Thank you for agreeing to complete this survey. It should take approximately 5 minutes to complete and is entirely confidential. 
This survey is designed to gain a better understanding of mountain bike riders' usage, needs and expectations at Plenty Gorge Park. This survey is being conducted in collaboration with the City of Whittlesea. The information collected through the survey will be used to inform the City of Whittlesea Cycling Sport Strategy.

•	Please answer all questions by placing a tick/click in the box(es) that best reflect your opinion or knowledge.

•	Please return completed surveys to: [email protected]

•	If you have any queries or comments regarding the City of Whittlesea Cycling Sport Strategy, please contact:

James Lake - Leisure Planner
Leisure Services and Community Inclusion
City of Whittlesea,
Phone: (03) 9404 8857	
Email: [email protected]

First, we would like to know more about where and when you ride your mountain bike.

1.	On average, how often do you ride your mountain bike? Please tick/click one box.

Daily ☐
2-3 times a week ☐
Once a week ☐
2-3 times a month ☐
Once a month ☐
Once every few months ☐
Once a year ☐

2.	In the last 6 months, roughly how many times have you ridden at Plenty Gorge Park? Please tick/click one box.

Never ☐
Once ☐
2-3 times ☐
4-6 times ☐
7 times or more ☐
Don't know ☐

3.	Where else do you like to ride your mountain bike?

4.	Where is your favourite mountain bike destination?

And why?

5.	When do you usually ride? Please tick/click which boxes apply.

Weekdays	
Daytime	☐ Evening/Night ☐
Weekends	
Daytime	☐ Evening/Night ☐

6.	Which type(s) of riding do you prefer/do most often? Please tick/click which boxes apply.

Cross Country/All mountain	☐	
Downhill	☐ 
Dirt jumps ☐
Touring (off road) ☐	
Trials ☐ 
BMX ☐
Other	(please specify) ☐

This next section is about your riding experience at Plenty Gorge Park.

7.	In a few words, tell us why you like to ride at Plenty Gorge Park?

8.	What additional features/facilities would improve your riding experience at Plenty Gorge Park? Please select your top three (3). Please tick/click three boxes only.

More Parking ☐	
Shelter/meeting place ☐
Drinking water ☐	
BBQ ☐
Trail head (with map) ☐	
Trail signage (trail name/riding direction/skill)	☐
More single track ☐	
More downhill track ☐
MTB only trails ☐	
More skills/pump tracks ☐
Other (please specify) ☐

9.	From what location do you usually access Plenty Gorge Park? If you come by car, where do you park?

10.	How do you usually travel to Plenty Gorge Park? Please tick/click one box.

By car ☐
By train ☐
Ride ☐

11.	If mountain bike events were held at Plenty Gorge Park, would you be interested in attending? Please tick/click one box.

Yes ☐
No ☐
Maybe ☐

If No, why not?

12.	Would you like to see Plenty Gorge Park opened up to greater participation by mountain bikers? Please tick/click one box.

Yes ☐
No ☐
Not Sure	☐

If Yes, what would you like to see and why?

If No, why not?

Finally, we would just like to know a little bit more about you.

13.	Are you member of a cycling club?

Yes ☐
No ☐
Rather not say	☐

If Yes, which club do you belong to:

14.	Are you aware of any local mountain bike clubs?

Yes ☐
No ☐
Not sure	☐

If Yes, which clubs are you aware of:

15.	Are you:	male ☐ female ☐

16.	Which age group are you in?

Under 18 years	☐	
18-24 years	☐ 
25-34 years	☐ 
35-44 years	☐
45-54 years	☐	
55-64 years	☐	
65 and over	☐

17.	What is your postcode:

Are there any other comments you would like to add:

THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME


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