# Give it to me straight, oldtimer to oldtimer: Should I be offended?



## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Groupthink and political correctness have taken over the Women's Lounge. Humor -- if not at the expense of clueless, mansplaining, misogynistic males -- has apparently been banned. Below is a copy of a tongue-in-cheek post I put up today which was locked by the mods after two responses. Totally true story, and just one example of the assumptions younger riders, male and female, make about older riders on the trail.

Comments I hear with some frequency: "Keep going, you can do it." "Don't give up; almost there." "Don't worry it gets easier."

Does this kind of thing happen to other older riders, or just me? Am I offended? Not really, but these comments from total strangers seem to assume I'm struggling or suffering and outside my comfort zone. I'm not the strongest or fastest rider, but Ive been riding mtb since 1981 and still get in 50-100 miles a week. Not all easy trails either. 

I posted because I think the assumptions made about older riders, in many cases, come from the same place (clueless stereotypes, mostly) as the assumptions men often make about women riders. Actual malice and condescension is, I think the exception. I expected a spirited discussion, but got locked out instead. What do you old-timers think?

The offensive post starts here :

I think I was just mansplained to by a woman because I am old.

On one of my favorite climbs yesterday I just wasn't feeling it and stopped to take a breather. A young woman coming downhill soon appeared, so I took another step off the trail. Mostly I was trying to give a fellow rider room to avoid a large boulder, on the other side of which was a steep drop-off. The downhill rider chirps, "I can get off and walk if that would make you more comfortable." She didn't add the sobriquet "Gramps", but it was implied by her tone. 

Should I be offended?


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

People shouldn't let it bother them. Why not act the part for funsies? Turn it into a positive...

I figure that this is just one of the downsides to having a lot of bias built up, and triggering the backfire effect... what should be encouragement and consideration, turns into annoyance. xD

I feel that we live in a society that romanticizes drama, which results in this kind of stuff being treated as entertainment. Since people demand more of it, they're less likely to find a permanent solution to such maturity/ego issues. Instead, we sort of save it up as "ammo" for use in humor through satire or whatever. That and people are too quick to retreat to being tribalistic, as it's easier than being an individual.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

I'm not an old timer but growing up, my 'ole man used to (and still does) just look at me and say "I hope you're in half-as-good-a shape as me when you're my age."

I think there's a lot to be said for your post. Can a 20 year old blow by an ole' timer? Maybe. Can that same 20 year old hold on for 35 years and keep the passion alive? I doubt it seriously. I don't think it has a thing to do with stamina or comfort level though. I think your mind should reside in your accomplishment that not many achieve. MTB is hot and gaining momentum but I think an argument can be made that it wasn't always this way and the old timers have prevailed.

Kudos veloborealis. I hope I'm in "half-as-good-a" shape as you. Laugh at the novice, fair-weather fans who don't respect your journey.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I agree, have fun with it. After all, you are having a blast on your bike, and can probably out ride many youngsters.

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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

One of the beauties of getting older is you don't care what the kids think...


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

Stop looking for reasons to be offended, and stay out of the Women's Lounge, pervert.


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## Wacha Wacha Wacha (Sep 27, 2017)

OwenM said:


> Stop looking for reasons to be offended, and stay out of the Women's Lounge, pervert.


Haha there's one rebuttal!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

veloborealis said:


> Groupthink and political correctness have taken over the Women's Lounge. Humor -- if not at the expense of clueless, mansplaining, misogynistic males -- has apparently been banned. Below is a copy of a tongue-in-cheek post I put up today which was locked by the mods after two responses. Totally true story, and just one example of the assumptions younger riders, male and female, make about older riders on the trail.
> 
> Comments I hear with some frequency: "Keep going, you can do it." "Don't give up; almost there." "Don't worry it gets easier."
> 
> ...


You are old, are you also fat? And slow?


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

You should be flattered no one called you "Gramps"


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Vespasianus said:


> You are old, are you also fat? And slow?


Ummm... maybe. Have we met?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

You shouldn't be offended (and apparently you weren't) by what the young rider said. 
Should the women on the women's forum be offended? That's up to them. They've made it pretty clear what offends them and yet guys go on and try to talk them out of being offended for some reason. Probably time to give THAT a rest.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

OwenM said:


> Stop looking for reasons to be offended, and stay out of the Women's Lounge, pervert.


I wasn't. The opposite, in fact. You do know it's not an actual Women's Lounge, right?


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

MSU Alum said:


> You shouldn't be offended (and apparently you weren't) by what the young rider said.
> Should the women on the women's forum be offended? That's up to them. They've made it pretty clear what offends them and yet guys go on and try to talk them out of being offended for some reason. Probably time to give THAT a rest.


Yep!


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

velobike said:


> one of the beauties of getting older is you don't care what anyone thinks...


fify :thumbsup:


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

veloborealis said:


> Ummm... maybe. Have we met?


No, just wanted to get in a real insult.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

veloborealis said:


> Groupthink and political correctness have taken over the Women's Lounge. Humor -- if not at the expense of clueless, mansplaining, misogynistic males -- has apparently been banned. Below is a copy of a tongue-in-cheek post I put up today which was locked by the mods after two responses. Totally true story, and just one example of the assumptions younger riders, male and female, make about older riders on the trail.
> 
> Comments I hear with some frequency: "Keep going, you can do it." "Don't give up; almost there." "Don't worry it gets easier."
> 
> ...


You picked a bad time and bad forum to post this in. Using the term mansplained to explain being talked down to be a female rider, also a bad choice. Think about your words, just as you are expecting those that typecast you as old and in need of encouragement.

Your not understanding this, the power of words, the co-opting of a term used by women to define men that talk down to women, and then the hypocrisy of your post were you were asking, even if humor was intended, of being belittled for being you by an ageist is bad form in the women's lounge.

Humor can be powerful and I totally understand the sentiment of what you were saying but that was not the time or the place to put that out there.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

Forum title is 'Womens Lounge' so I never entered. I'm sure there are many great folks there but not surprised to hear it can turn into a sh*t show when a man gets into their sandbox discussing being 'mansplained by a woman'.

Life's too short to waste time on crap like this. I would not have been offended or even put much thought into the situation. I focus on the ride...there's only so many good ones left.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

When you want to get out of a hole, stop digging.

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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

rockcrusher said:


> You picked a bad time and bad forum to post this in. Using the term mansplained to explain being talked down to be a female rider, also a bad choice. Think about your words, just as you are expecting those that typecast you as old and in need of encouragement.
> 
> Your not understanding this, the power of words, the co-opting of a term used by women to define men that talk down to women, and then the hypocrisy of your post were you were asking, even if humor was intended, of being belittled for being you by an ageist is bad form in the women's lounge.
> 
> Humor can be powerful and I totally understand the sentiment of what you were saying but that was not the time or the place to put that out there.


Let me know when there's a good time.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

I only get offended when someone disses my 26" wheels.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

I firmly believe that the more politically correct society becomes.....the more people look for reasons to be offended. It’s sad.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

mtnbikej said:


> I firmly believe that the more politically correct society becomes.....the more people look for reasons to be offended. It's sad.


I'm going to argue that as not a women, you probably don't have the ability to define what is offensive to women, same with me. However I will always take them at their word to what is offensive to them, as they are women and they know this. This is not political correctness, this is attitude adjustment to 50% of our humanity that deserves to be equal to men.

Until we start referring to the the dumbing down of features as "boyfriending" the trail, someone that lames out as a "cock", someone that is lame or weak as having a "wallet", we can take women's complaints legitimately as complaints and not as easily offended because it is a knee jerk reaction to debate.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

The very nature and definition of "mansplain" means a woman can't do it as she is not a man. Now, "womansplain......".


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## sage1 (Jun 20, 2008)

This post is a lot like a Seinfeld episode, entertaining but about absolutley nothing.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

rockcrusher said:


> I'm going to argue that as not a women, you probably don't have the ability to define what is offensive to women, same with me. However I will always take them at their word to what is offensive to them, as they are women and they know this. This is not political correctness, this is attitude adjustment to 50% of our humanity that deserves to be equal to men.
> 
> Until we start referring to the the dumbing down of features as "boyfriending" the trail, someone that lames out as a "cock", someone that is lame or weak as having a "wallet", we can take women's complaints legitimately as complaints and not as easily offended because it is a knee jerk reaction to debate.


I'm not talking cycling.....I'm taking society in general. Too many snowflakes looking for reasons to be offended. My wife loves pointing this out.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

What some deem to be "Political Correctness" (or absurdly calling people "Snowflakes"), others would argue is just a push to be civil. I'm down with civility.

The term "offended" is overused, also. Just because someone points something out doesn't make them offended. It just means they're trying to civilize the discourse. It's similar to the perceived "hate" to e-bikes. These terms cease to have meaning in the contexts which they're being used.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Travis Bickle said:


> When you want to get out of a hole, stop digging.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G935S using Tapatalk


Dig sideways. You can simultaneously make the hole you're in bigger, but not deeper. Sometimes by digging sideways you find a way out...usually not. Eloquently illustrates most arguments I have with my wife.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

veloborealis said:


> Does this kind of thing happen to other older riders, or just me?


It happens to everyone. Age and gender have nothing to do with it. Such comments are virtually always meant in a friendly, encouraging way. When you consider that the person making them usually only has a second or two to come up with something to say it's hardly surprising they often say something a bit lame. I do it myself.

More worrying is the feeling that this is something that needs to be talked about and worried over. Let it go.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I usually get.."you are almost there" lol I find that refreshing.

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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I was in the Bike Park at Steamboat on Sunday. Got passed by a twenty-something (if that) in full DH regalia...he said "Thank you, Sir!"
I thought about being offended, then I realized that I say that to younger people all the time. 
I was with my 10 year old, and thought it was cool of the teenager to be so polite.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No.

The only reason anything bothers you is because you choose to let it bother you.

This is all about your thinking.

The only one that thinks you are old is you. The only one that's worried about you being old is you. Interesting eh?



veloborealis said:


> Groupthink and political correctness have taken over the Women's Lounge. Humor -- if not at the expense of clueless, mansplaining, misogynistic males -- has apparently been banned. Below is a copy of a tongue-in-cheek post I put up today which was locked by the mods after two responses. Totally true story, and just one example of the assumptions younger riders, male and female, make about older riders on the trail.
> 
> Comments I hear with some frequency: "Keep going, you can do it." "Don't give up; almost there." "Don't worry it gets easier."
> 
> ...


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

formica said:


> The very nature and definition of "mansplain" means a woman can't do it as she is not a man. Now, "womansplain......".


But, he says, womansplain ain't a thing. Women don't 'splain nothin'. They expect us to read their minds. Heck, we don't even know what we're thinking.


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

veloborealis said:


> Should I be offended?


The feelings of offense arise within you. Are those feelings beneficial or detrimental? If they are the former, hold on to them without being covetous. If they are the latter discard them immediately.


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## RustyIron (Apr 14, 2008)

OwenM said:


> Stop looking for reasons to be offended, and stay out of the Women's Lounge, pervert.


What do they actually do over in the Women's Lounge? Do they post selfies in tight lycra riding gear? How do I join?


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## 2old (Aug 31, 2015)

Ya pops,be offended and go ride an Ebike.

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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

I am not easily offended by anything. Now you deserve the old comments if you are in a convenience store in full gear, wearing a bit of mud, have a very muddy fatbike outside, locked with a huge cable, plenty of ear hair, are at the checkout with a huge line and are squeezing one of those rubber change purses, taking out each coin and looking at it closely over the top of your glasses to pay for a bottle of water. Now, I would not do that.

In that case, you just might be old. A folding cane bungeed to the bike rack adds a nice touch.


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## Utilitrack (Jul 13, 2017)

“are at the checkout with a huge line and are squeezing one of those rubber change purses”

That brings back memories...My father used one of those for as long as I can remember, same old mustard colored one for at least twenty years!


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Utilitrack said:


> "are at the checkout with a huge line and are squeezing one of those rubber change purses"
> 
> That brings back memories...My father used one of those for as long as I can remember, same old mustard colored one for at least twenty years!


The coin purse probably was yellow at one point. Fingerprint grease discolors them over the years.

Was in the store one time with my teenage daughter whom wanted a kid rock CD. I somewhat objected and was subject to the "your are older than dirt" type comments. I said you want to see old, I will buy it but you have to stand in line behind me. I made change with the rubber squeeze purse checking each coin up close with trembling hands and slowly trembled it to the counter. Took at least a minute. She was horrified but kept her mouth shut.

Another time in the store the cashier ask me "Paper or plastic?" referring to bagging. I was not paying attention and my daughter said "DAD she is asking you paper or plastic?" to which I responded "Oh! I always pay with plastic" My daughter then said "DAD she means a bag!" to which I responded " Oh yes, I want my groceries in a bag". My daughter was just dumbfounded.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

The range of potential comments stretches from clearly offensive to clearly not offensive.

The significant majority of comments exist somewhere in the middle.

How you interpret those comments says much more about what is inside of you than what is inside of them - especially when it is someone you don't know, in which case it is only about what is inside you.

It is far better to assume they mean the best, and be proved wrong, than to assume the worse, and find out otherwise.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

veloborealis said:


> Should I be offended?


No.
I didn't read anything other than the title of this post, but the answer is still 'no'. There are way too many people these days that spend every waking minute looking for something to be offended about, don't be one of them.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Ladmo said:


> The range of potential comments stretches from clearly offensive to clearly not offensive.
> 
> The significant majority of comments exist somewhere in the middle.
> 
> ...


Best advice yet!


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## TheBaldBlur (Jan 13, 2014)

First off, nobody can offend you without your permission.

Second, as a returning rider and more specifically a returning rider "of a certain age" I've been very, very pleased with my interactions with other, younger, more capable riders on the trails. I get the occasional comment as I"m slogging up a hill like "looking good" or "climbing strong" or something similar and they never make me feel patronized. I was in Fruita last year and on a particular climb that I was struggling with a group who had gone ahead of us stopped at the summit to encourage everyone else coming up the hill. Maybe it's a small matter, but that camaraderie of the mtb community really stood out to me.

A sense of humor and not taking yourself too seriously helps too. Nearly all of my interactions with hikers are met with them standing aside to let me pass even though I pull aside since they have the right of way. I often give a sheepish grin and say thanks, you're being nice to an old man and I just needed the rest! and that often gets a laugh and a smile.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

I've been called "Old Man Winter", "Old Man of the Forest" and "The Old Guy" and teased about senility, Depends and response time (lack of). Ducks back and keep on riding.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

TheBaldBlur said:


> First off, nobody can offend you without your permission.


I love that statement and have heard it before. Words to live by.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)




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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

Klurejr said:


> I love that statement and have heard it before. Words to live by.


The quote, "no one can offend you without your permission" is wisdom that implies that you, yourself, choose to be offended. It's apparently been made famous by E Roosevelt and Gandhi.

It's usually followed by, "people don't work that way." This is like putting up an excuse beforehand, that you won't put in an honest effort to control your emotions. I'm sure there a numerous people that have a biased belief that it doesn't "hurt" if people act more nicely/considerate/sensitive. I'm don't doubt that there's a comparable number of people who believe the opposite, that it's better to know the whole truth, all the uncensored context, even if it includes possibly traumatizing stuff.

It's a weird war between practicing tactful politeness/political correctness, and lacking restraint, being blunt/straightforward. Seems like more and more are raising kids to be the former and are considered to be snowflakes, while those who were raised according to the latter (being thick skinned, able to take criticism), are considered to be jerks. The middle ground is like invisible...

I do wonder if it really is futile for some people* to discipline their emotions. (*people without disorders such as autism and ADHD)


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

veloborealis said:


> Groupthink and political correctness have taken over the Women's Lounge. Humor -- if not at the expense of clueless, mansplaining, misogynistic males -- has apparently been banned. Below is a copy of a tongue-in-cheek post I put up today which was locked by the mods after two responses. Totally true story, and just one example of the assumptions younger riders, male and female, make about older riders on the trail.
> 
> Comments I hear with some frequency: "Keep going, you can do it." "Don't give up; almost there." "Don't worry it gets easier."
> 
> ...


You R the problem.
They have their view.
You have your view.
No reason to waste time nor energy.
You are not being paid to teach.
Smile, you are a lucky old bastard, smiling is free


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Chillax and enjoy life.

What do you call a woman with one leg? Illene.

What do you call a dog with no back legs and a steel penis? Sparky.

I went to the zoo the other day to see only a small dog in a cage........

It was a shih tzu.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Next time just yell "get off my lawn" as they go by.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

I yell that a lot!


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

plummet said:


> Chillax and enjoy life.
> 
> What do you call a woman with one leg? Illene.
> 
> ...


All jokes are offensive to someone.

What if you actually meet a one-legged woman and remember the "Illene" (sp?) joke?

Most, if not all, jokes with made up scenarios are considered to be lame. Puns are possibly offensive to the language.

The issue is whether or not you play along and find opportunity to use it for fun or whatever, or if you are bothered by it... those bothered by it seem to weigh the value of making an effort to change everyone else, vs the effort of changing themselves, possibly fearing that they lose something valuable, even if it's simple as mere principle, if they change themselves. Those who say it wouldn't hurt to be more polite probably haven't discovered how it would help, or how it wouldn't hurt to play along. Ever heard of some accomplishments being driven by naysayers?

IMO, extremists suck. I find that the closer you are to being in the center of the balance, the more decent you are. I imagine a decent person wouldn't react to anything of this nature. These jokes would be meh, and forgotten, as they likely have bigger problems to focus on. Laughing your ass off, or being very offended, are clear indicators for me to steer away. Gossiping and lecturing are pretty repulsive too. Finding common understanding is laudable.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We are currently in the age of outrage, but that too shall pass, then we can stop being offended by stoopid ****.

Don’t forget that you are 100% responsible for what you think and feel.

Own it.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> We are currently in the age of outrage, but that too shall pass, then we can stop being offended by stoopid ****.
> 
> Don't forget that you are 100% responsible for what you think and feel.
> 
> Own it.


We are possible in the age of people being sick of being treated like S. The "monkey up" comment is offensive to me and should be offensive to most of us. You can't just say whatever you want anymore. The outrage is from people that are getting called out on saying offensive things. You can't use retard, gay, cotton picker, etc anymore.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

When people make direct or indirect comments about my age I usually fire back
"I am 64 and in better shape than people twice my age!"

They usually look at me strangely for a few moments, then smile as they get my comment. That usually disarms them.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

sfgiantsfan said:


> We are possible in the age of people being sick of being treated like S. The "monkey up" comment is offensive to me and should be offensive to most of us. You can't just say whatever you want anymore. The outrage is from people that are getting called out on saying offensive things. You can't use retard, gay, cotton picker, etc anymore.


I am offended by your post.

I am also offended that some people do not find it offensive.

This whole political correctness nonsense is a slippery slope down into a bottomless rabbit hole. You do notice that the political correctness brouhaha does not apply to critics and supporters of the current President? They hurl epithets at each other with impunity and reckless abandon.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> We are currently in the age of outrage, but that too shall pass, then we can stop being offended by stoopid ****.
> 
> Don't forget that you are 100% responsible for what you think and feel.
> 
> Own it.


Oh no. What shall pass is the ability to get away with -isms.

People that find the inability to treat others as equal difficult, if not impossible, will find this uncomfortable...but they are the ones at fault.

When someone asks you to do stop treating in them in a way they don't like, just stop.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

Well, most of the comments are good-natured because most bike riders are nice people.

Most.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

dave54 said:


> I am offended by your post.
> 
> I am also offended that some people do not find it offensive.
> 
> This whole political correctness nonsense is a slippery slope down into a bottomless rabbit hole. You do notice that the political correctness brouhaha does not apply to critics and supporters of the current President? They hurl epithets at each other with impunity and reckless abandon.


Why are you offended?


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

People are pissed they can't degrade and demean other people like they used to do without those other people calling them on their BS. BooHoo can dish it out but can't take it I feel so sorry for you. Talk about needing to grow a pair.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

In the USA, political correctness is an end run around the first amendment in the USA bill of rites. Understand that you may be slowly giving up your rites by being offended.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Hopefully you're over it by now but you shouldn't be offended. You are defensive about your age, apparently or her comment would just fly by.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

OP here. I think it's time to let this thread die. As I said in post #1, I wasn't really offended. I was trying to make a point about political correctness and hypersensitivity to perceived, and perhaps unintentional, slurs as it pertained to a discussion in another forum. In retrospect, I think I expressed my point inartfully and muddied the issue I wanted to explore. To all posted, thanks for the responses and "straight talk."


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

Well said. Reasonable and measured. I think you are correct about the way the first post (and the title) could be read, but you clarified your meaning very well here.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

PierreR said:


> In the USA, political correctness is an end run around the first amendment in the USA bill of rites. Understand that you may be slowly giving up your rites by being offended.


No it's not. It's about being civil and treating people with respect.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

PierreR said:


> In the USA, political correctness is an end run around the first amendment in the USA bill of rites. Understand that you may be slowly giving up your rites by being offended.


Here's another way to think about political correctness:

1) Treat and talk to others as you would want to be treated.

2) It generally helps prevent you from saying the wrong thing to the wrong person and getting your teeth kicked in.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

OP,,, I think you had a wimp moment.
You shoulda pushed her off the cliff


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

veloborealis said:


> OP here. I think it's time to let this thread die. As I said in post #1, I wasn't really offended. I was trying to make a point about political correctness and hypersensitivity to perceived, and perhaps unintentional, slurs as it pertained to a discussion in another forum. In retrospect, I think I expressed my point inartfully and muddied the issue I wanted to explore. To all posted, thanks for the responses and "straight talk."


It sounded like you clearly stated what offended you in the very first sentence.



veloborealis said:


> Groupthink and political correctness have taken over the Women's Lounge.


The problem is that YOU were the one engaging in "groupthink," and complaints about "political correctness" almost always involve not having bad behavior questioned.

People probably give you words of encouragement because you're slow and appear to be struggling, not because of your age....since not all older guys are slow or struggle.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Umm... ok richde, if you say so.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

veloborealis said:


> Umm... ok richde, if you say so.


Somehow pointing out what you said is wild conjecture?

Keep trying, you'll make it eventually.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

richde said:


> Somehow pointing out what you said is wild conjecture?
> 
> Keep trying, you'll make it eventually.


Wild conjecture? Never said that. But you did sidestep my point to make yours. My last word on this. Enough time wasted.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Not to speak for veloborealis, but I believe the whole point he was trying to make is that people shouldn't jump to conclusions, looking for a slight from someone where there very well might not be one. This thread was born from a thread in the Women's Lounge where a member claimed that referring to your wife as "the wife" is demeaning, "I'd love to ride some more but I gotta go pick up the wife". There were several males in the thread posting that they did not agree that that was demeaning and a mod made it clear that the opinions of the males were not welcome in the Women's Lounge, one member ended up getting the ban hammer, he really wasn't even pushing his opinion. Personally, I don't think I've ever used the phrase "the wife" but I have certainly used the phrase "the kids".

I had posted in a similar thread. I used to do sprint triathlons and read a comment in a tri forum where a woman complained that a male had passed her right at the finish line. She said the guy could not stand being beaten by a woman. I was thinking, that very well could have been me, I always sprint at the end of a race, just emptying the tank to finish the race the best I can. If there is someone there, I very well may pass them but I don't care if they are male or female, it's a race! Triathlons are started in waves, and though I obviously would not be in the same wave as a woman, you don't know people in other waves finishing times so shaving off a few seconds very well may move you up in the overall results. But this lady assumed a guy passed her because he couldn't stand being beaten by a female. 

On the original post in this thread, it seemed the woman descending took veloborealis stepping off the trail as a slight, that he was implying she needed more room than was necessary, possibly because she was a woman. He then tongue in cheek added that from her tone, he was expecting to be called "gramps"; in which case he would have also been looking for a slight that probably wasn't there. Now I wasn't there so I don't know exactly what happened. If he stepped way off the trail and then dramatically gestured at the trail as she came by, maybe she was right. But I doubt he did that. The only thing I question is his use of the word "mostly", "Mostly I was trying to give a fellow rider room to avoid a large boulder"; though I very well may be guilty of reading something into that that isn't there so I'll let it go.

People should certainly treat others equally and not put down someone based on their sex, race, religion, etc. but sometimes people go looking to be the victim where they simply aren't.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Thanks chazpat. At least one reader out there got my point, which was essentially, "Don't go looking for reasons to be offended, because you will find plenty of them if that's what you're seeking."

Based on her comment, the young woman assumed by my moving off the trail that I was fearful of her passing, when I was only trying to give her more options to safely pass. She was going so slow there was hardly a reason to be alarmed. In retrospect, I see that I also assumed she would appreciate the ability to choose a line that suited her.

After stumbling into the WF's discussion about sexism on MTBR forums, I was reminded of the above scenario as it seemed so much of what seemed to be offending everyone was rooted in perceptions and assumptions about what was in the mind of the other person. People choosing to be offended, in other words, by interpreting other's comments in the worst light. For the record, a lot of the complaints by women in WF seemed truly to be rooted in sexist thinking. But other complaints seemed to be people choosing to be offended.

When I shared my little anecdote in the WF, the thread was immediately locked, which was why I posted here asking, "Should I be offended?" Since it seems to me choice has a significant role in the matter. 

Methinks this dead horse has been sufficiently beaten. vb out.


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## ninjichor (Jul 12, 2018)

So you finally got what you wanted. Your own tribalism, from at least one reader, to help you feel good in response to your insecurity. Someone you could find especially agreeable. The vast majority don't matter, as long as you limit your "personal world of people who matter to you right now" to a small group, you can create your own majority. xD

The WF has their own group of people with a certain set of bias, as does this 50+ forum. It's a support group for people feeling insecure about their biases. Tribalism is behavior that's been in-grained in some people since school, forming cliques and what not. I bet you're feeling an urge to bond with chazpat, now that you find 'em agreeable. If chazpat also is feeling insecure, they'd also be open to it. If it continues with more people, you can be a new tribe--when it gets big enough to be noticed, someone will be along to mislabel you based on whatever quirky bias you got.

No clue what I'd named your tribe, but imagine that those jumping to conclusions might label the tribe as nosy male old timers who are ruining progressive movements with their old fashioned maturity standards. Not too far off from other tribal labels: millennial killing off industries, or [random gentrified city] being called out for having hipsters/NIMBYs discretely wielding their financial power foolishly.

[HR][/HR]
I see the people who were offering you advice, as people who matured enough to have already learned this lesson about being offended. You came to the 50+ forum expecting a more mature and wise crowd, right? Your last post makes it sound like you already understand, and wanted to address tribalism, rather than "being offended", but it seems like you're suffering from tribalism yourself, seeking other people for support in whatever passive-aggressive drama you're involving yourself in.

All the foolish tribes sustain themselves solely on their own circle-jerking of support. This is the information age. Anyone willing to be open minded and are intelligent enough to change/adapt willfully, will find more reputable knowledge to learn better, and treat such foolish tribal experiences as wisdom. They become better in the end. Don't stress 'em out and make them increasingly unstable. See the backfire effect. TL;DR, offering women, who are bothered by certain male treatment, your male-centric perspective causes friction, and their response will be proportionally scathing no matter how reasonable your perspective may be, simply because you're male. It's akin to kids saying that they don't want to be treated like kids, and being infuriated when you don't understand what they mean, still using the Dad/Mom/adult perspective.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Oh my! This is now way more about you than me. Have fun.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I'm offended.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

ninjichor said:


> So you finally got what you wanted. Your own tribalism, from at least one reader, blah blah blah. More drivel trying to sound like some deep thinker and failing as usual.


I simplified it for those who don't want to read all that. You did pick a proper avatar for yourself, I will give you that.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Should just retitle this thread 
" Reading comprehension test"


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

turn it around and give them some encouraging words...


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> Should just retitle this thread
> " Reading comprehension test"


There ya go, right there.


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## Supernoob (Sep 26, 2018)

*really?*



sfgiantsfan said:


> We are possible in the age of people being sick of being treated like S. The "monkey up" comment is offensive to me and should be offensive to most of us. You can't just say whatever you want anymore. The outrage is from people that are getting called out on saying offensive things. You can't use retard, gay, cotton picker, etc anymore.


this offends me. how did we get here from the bike trail???


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

rockcrusher said:


> Until we start referring to the the dumbing down of features as "boyfriending" the trail, someone that lames out as a "cock".


This is awesome! This weekend I will definitely be accusing my buddies of boyfriending and being cocks.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

as i creep closer to the big 6-0, i'm trying to tune out things in my life i don't like if possible.

that said, i find there's a lot of self-righteous thin skins on certain internet forums.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

This is nearly impossible to actually pretend to understand and/or agree with.

We didn't see the trail condition, nor did we hear the tone of her voice or witness her body language.
From sitting on my couch and putting myself in the woman's shoes -I am about to descend and look ahead. I see a person ahead (the OP) step aside as I approach. My first instinct may be -this guy may think there isn't much room and is moving out of the way for me and putting himself in a predicament. Quick judgment call .....thought bubbles.... I should let this person know that if they are feeling like I don't have enough control to make it between him and the rocks on the trail I should offer to get off my bike.

There are many ways to read a situation. I think a lot of how we read actions by others if directly based on 1) the attitude we are in at the moment 2) how we generally perceive others. If we think others are always against us, our first thought is to be defensive. Or we had a bad day, our attitude shows and is expressed onto others.

I've offered to not go by others on the trail before. Was I being offensive -I was not trying to be. I figured since I 'felt' in more control than how I perceived the other individual that maybe it will be easier if I don't bomb past them.
On the other hand I was atop a technical descent the other day when a cute young girl started up the tough climb. I stopped to allower her to continue pushing her way up the hill. She pulled aside and said "You should come down, I might be a while". I guess in that case we should have both been offended at the other. I bounced my way down the sharp rocky narrow path right by her saying "have a good ride". 

I'm not too old (yet) and sure do not feel like it but I have to assume this girl was mid 20's. Looked fit and was riding an older bike. She was on a trail in the unusual direction heading up a technical descent. 

I think we both made the decision to stop for the other (communication is key). I may have even said "you're fine" when she tried to move aside. I may have offended her by telling her not to move any further aside.

Sigh....

Yes most things seem to be offensive these days. We just need to adapt to the audience surrounding us the best we can.


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## Cuyuna (May 14, 2017)

There are a**holes everywhere...all ages, and all sexes. If you are offended by their comments, then you’ve given them unwarranted credence. Easier to just shrug, think to yourself “what an *sshole”, and plod on. Self-righteousness and arrogoance are not rare commodities among mountain bikers, both on the trails and online. If you let their silly comments offend you, wherever you encounter them, then you are in the wrong hobby or on the wrong online forum, and taking them too seriously.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

what cayuna said.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

In 8th grade I stopped caring what others said about me, it has served me well. And lighten up Francis.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

leeboh said:


> In 8th grade I stopped caring what others said about me, it has served me well. And lighten up Francis.


this for me too...being into punk rock and a nerd also helped. I quickly grew a tough skin, and a light heart...and a quick wisdom about interactions with people.

In the OP's situation, I would not have even given what the other rider said a second thought as they went by, unless they stopped to discuss it. In a passing moment like that, what either rider thinks is inconsequential really


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