# Drawing a line part II



## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

Recently a thread was started with a question about where to draw the line. The op ed of that thread lives in Utah. Unfortunately the op ed posted the question and then posted a picture of a franken bike article without checking the laws in the state in which he lives. With a quick check on the internet it can be found that in Utah the line has already been drawn. Anything over 750 watts is not considered a bicycle in the state of Utah. Utah laws are very clear about Class I - III ebikes being considered as bicycles. Hopefully moderators will be on the look out in the future for posts on MTBR where the franken bike is used to falsely represent pedal assisted bicycles. 
Cheers


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

So you started a new thread to start the argument all over again? Strong work!!


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

Just stating that I don't have to get up in the morning and wonder where the line will be drawn in Utah. It has already been drawn. Low powered ebikes are the best step in evolution of the bike since the dropper post and disc brakes.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Giant Warp said:


> Low powered ebikes are the best step in evolution if you no longer want to ride a bicycle.


fify


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

That is total bs, so my 760w machine isn't a bicycle but your 750w one is? Discrimination at it's highest level.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

You may want to look into where that state law actually applies/has not been superceded by local ordinance. Hint: it's not Park City, Moab, St. George/Hurricane, or most of the other places you probably think of when you think of riding mountain bikes in UT. 

The law was intended (and mostly affects) commuters on paved paths and the street. There are a few spots offroad where you can still ride but I would guess those will get shut down in the next few years (BST, Corner Canyon, etc). I guess you never know, though.

-Walt


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Same rules apply in OC, CA; most of the county and state trails aren't open to e-MTB from my inquiries.


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## Linktung (Oct 22, 2014)

Walt said:


> You may want to look into where that state law actually applies/has not been superceded by local ordinance. Hint: it's not Park City, Moab, St. George/Hurricane, or most of the other places you probably think of when you think of riding mountain bikes in UT.
> 
> The law was intended (and mostly affects) commuters on paved paths and the street. There are a few spots offroad where you can still ride but I would guess those will get shut down in the next few years (BST, Corner Canyon, etc). I guess you never know, though.
> 
> -Walt


BST and Corner Canyon are open to E-bikes!!!!! Awesome, I was just there but left the E at home. It was too snowy to ride anyways, 17 inches of snow in Alta so that made up for a lost day of cycling. Skiing just isn't as fun as riding E on snow.

Any word on E being allowed on American Fork snowmobile trails? Seems pretty crazy that many Forest Services ban them on places that allow biles.

Oh and those local ordinances would be much easier to fight and win in court then a ticket from the Feds. Ignore all local ordinances that violate your Right To Travel. It would be cool to see anmap of the trails governed by local (tyrannical) municipalities so you can choose which to ride. Any chance you can provide a good map?


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Giant Warp said:


> Recently a thread was started with a question about where to draw the line. The op ed of that thread lives in Utah. Unfortunately the op ed posted the question and then posted a picture of a franken bike article without checking the laws in the state in which he lives. With a quick check on the internet it can be found that in Utah the line has already been drawn. Anything over 750 watts is not considered a bicycle in the state of Utah. Utah laws are very clear about Class I - III ebikes being considered as bicycles. Hopefully moderators will be on the look out in the future for posts on MTBR where the franken bike is used to falsely represent pedal assisted bicycles.
> Cheers


There is the real world, and there is the MTBR eBike forum. In the real world a Levo is a Mountain Bike. A Class I pedelec is considered a bicycle by law in California. It isn't a motor vehicle. They are allowed by law on some trails, and not on others, so they are not treated exactly the same as a bicycle without an electric motor in some places. In others, they are treated the same. In some places, Class II and III bicycles have further restrictions.

On this forum, a Levo is the same as a Suzuki DRZ 400, and suggesting otherwise gets you RED reputation marks for WrongThink and HateSpeech.

So the line on this forum is "If it has a motor, it isn't a bike. It's a motorcycle or a moped. They don't belong on mountain bike trails that don't allow motorcycles today. We will do everything we can to prevent this from changing."

There is no point arguing any of this. Just ignore the attacks that will seize upon anything you post with comments like "As long as you are riding legally" or "If you aren't fit enough to ride a bicycle and you are riding legally..." etc.

The good news is that in the real world, real people who are passionate about Mountain Biking believe in Class I pedelecs just like the owners and sponsors of this site do.

Someone asked me why I haven't posted on any other forums on MTBR aside from this one. I found this site when searching for eMountainBike forums. I came here thinking it would be a good place to learn and share knowledge. I stayed because of the spectacle. Conversations about my StumpJumpers aren't nearly as hilarious.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Let's start by drawing a line at these threads, all they do is provoke disagreement.

Keep the politics off the forum. Talk about ebikes or go somewhere else to start conflicts.

There is an advocacy forum: Trail Building and Advocacy - Mtbr.com

as well as a off topic forum: Off Camber (off topic) - Mtbr.com


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Linktung said:


> BST and Corner Canyon are open to E-bikes!!!!! Awesome, I was just there but left the E at home. It was too snowy to ride anyways, 17 inches of snow in Alta so that made up for a lost day of cycling. Skiing just isn't as fun as riding E on snow.
> 
> Any word on E being allowed on American Fork snowmobile trails? Seems pretty crazy that many Forest Services ban them on places that allow biles.
> 
> Oh and those local ordinances would be much easier to fight and win in court then a ticket from the Feds. Ignore all local ordinances that violate your Right To Travel. It would be cool to see anmap of the trails governed by local (tyrannical) municipalities so you can choose which to ride. Any chance you can provide a good map?


http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/read-before-you-post-ebike-forum-rules-1022310.html

MTBR will not allow any discussion or Video's of Poaching Trails.


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## Mackeral_Fillet (Sep 16, 2017)

153 users in 3 weeks >> Draw a line to here https://www.emtbforums.com


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Let's start by drawing a line at these threads, all they do is provoke disagreement.
> 
> Keep the politics off the forum. Talk about ebikes or go somewhere else to start conflicts.
> 
> ...


Thank you Ben.


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