# New Clipless Pedals



## VaDon (Feb 12, 2012)

Ok, my much younger son-in-law and I have been talking about going clipless. 

After much research and deliberation, I ordered a pair of CrankBrothers Mallet 2's for my bike, and followed tracking until they arrived.

On Saturday, I installed the pedals, installed the clips, and decided to ride around my yard for awhile, until I felt comfortable clipping and unclipping.

All was well, until the next day, my second time out. While riding circles in my yard, practicing using my pedals, I fell three times!

Here's the worse part, an 8 year old was riding his bike up the road, at just the right time to see 2 of my falls. 

He called out to me, "What are you doing?"

All I could say....."I'm learning how to fall!"

Today, I shipped my pedals back, and reinstalled by flats.

Ouch!


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

There are countless threads on the benefits and detriments of clipless pedals. Too many variables, but one thing for sure that is NOT a variable is the age of the rider.

Ride on!


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

You did not give them enough time to prove their worth. Should have gone for at least one ride with them.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

As with anything else...there is a learning curve. You gave up on them pretty much immediately.

My GF mentioned that she tried to clip out of her flat pedals last weekend. It was the first time all summer that she used her bike with flat pedals. She had a hard time on clipless at first, but she stuck with it and now refuses to give them up.

After some time, clipping out becomes muscle memory.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Clipless, just another piece of excess technology.

And then you have to buy the special shoes...


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

clipless sort of freak me out, my riding buddies keep insisting on them. I'll pass I want to be able to bail if needed. Solid flats and good shoes, and I'm good to go. Doesn't mean I don't fall, but I feel more confident with flats, and I guess the more confidence you have the less you fall?


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Normal clipping out is one thing, but I've stalled out before and the harder I tried to unclip, the more I went over to that side until crash bang boom. Making it worse, you never stall out in nice flat terrain, there's usually a cliff to fall off or rocks to land on; on good days both!

On the other hand, there's nothing like bloody shins from the set screws they use for pins on flat pedals. You don't even have to crash to enjoy that pleasure, just bumping into them moving the bike around is enough.

Right now all my bikes have flats on them.


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## Rockhopper22 (Sep 1, 2013)

Maybe a little bit off topic, but what kind of flat pedals do you recommend? Right now Im in need of new pedals and fork, but been looking for them and the entry level fork I want for my old bike is like $109 dlls (RS xc28) and the pedals are $100, cant conceive the small difference in price if I think of the size and usage of each of these. Any advice?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Well, Crank Brothers have the biggest disengage angle I know of. So, you put on one of the harder pedals to get out of. The Shimano xt 8020 pedal might have been a better choice. The M545 also comes to mind.


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## owtdorz (Apr 26, 2012)

I like my Speedplay Frogs on my XC bike. I ride flats on my AM bike. I had a couple crashes when I started but now it's no problem.


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## Fastline (Jan 16, 2015)

I think you gave up too quickly, everyone falls when learning how to use clips. 

I use the Shimano clipless pedals that have clip on one side and flat on the other. Allows me to unclip if I run into gnarly stuff. I prefer clipless as I do lots of climbing and for me it helps tremendously. However with that said I swap out to my platform shoes and pedals now and then just so I don't develop bad habits from being clipped in.

Try the Shimano PD-M324 pedals you might like them.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I ride clipless on my 29er and flats on my 650b. The 29er is for more XC type riding and the 650b is AM...

I see the benefits of both. Also, I have yet to fall off whilst clipped in. I've come close on 3 or 4 occasions... usually when slow speeds are involved.

My rear tyre broke away the other day (NB, at speeed) on my 29er and I thought 'ok, here I go!' But, I managed to save it (somehow), rather than dabbing - I shifted weight and really torqued the front wheel.

The fall will come sooner or later, I'm sure. Just hope the landing is soft and fluffy!

On real techy trails I'll stay with 650b and flats ^^

PS - I do have a good scar from pins on rear of left leg. Better the leg than the head perhaps.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
'GET OFF MY LAWN!! YA DIRTY HIPPIE!!'


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## SWriverstone (Sep 3, 2009)

Ditto what others have said: keep riding with clipless pedals, and (possibly after a few falls) unclipping will become instinctive.

I've been truly amazed at some falls I've had (and my feet were unclipped by the time I hit the ground) where I thought "How the hell did I get out of my pedals so fast?" LOL

I'd hate to ride unclipped. For me it feels like driving without a seatbelt on.

*TIP: *I can't remember the model #, but Shimano has a specific model of SPD cleats (for shoes) that allow significantly more unclipping leeway-for example, your shoes will come unclipped in a broader range of directions (like moving your whole foot directly sideways and outward) than their normal SPD cleats.

For anyone who's nervous about riding clipped in, these could be a great alternative.

I tried these special cleats and found them too easy to come unclipped, but that's after riding clipped-in for many years.

Scott

EDIT: Here are the SPD cleats I mention above: they're called "easy-off" cleats, with "multidirectional" release:
http://www.amazon.com/Shimano-SPD-easy-off-pedalset/dp/B009KK4UXO


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## dledinger (Nov 29, 2014)

My first try on clilpess, around the yard, also went great. Up and down the street no problem. I rolled back to the house and rode up the stairs onto my deck. Got to the top and stopped and went to pull my feet out. No go. Balanced for what felt like eternity until crashing onto my shoulder. Tore a ligament. I stuck it out and went out to the mountains a couple weeks later. I didn't crash but felt so uneasy on the sketchy climbs. I was making climbs I normally wouldn't out of FEAR. I ended up swinging by a bike shop and getting some flats so I could enjoy the weekend. Back on the coast I put the clipless back on and did ok again. On to my first XC race. I did a preride and it was muddy and SLICK. Tons of wet, rooty climbs. Clipless back in the box and the flats went on for the race. Probably 150 riders and nearly all of them on clipless. Saw the same guys falling on thise wet roots over and over again the whole race. I rode flats for the rest of the season, but I've recently put the clipless on my singlespeed. I like them a lot when the conditions are right. They feel good in a high speed spin, over the really tough chunk and great in climbs. However, the adventerous stuff I do on my trail bike, like riding sketchy wooden obstacles, really high skinnys, is to much for me on the clipless. 

What I learned out of all this is use the right tool for the job. I'll race on them again this coming season, but each race will be trail/conditions dependant and I will have no hesitation to throw some good flats back on!


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## stoplight (Mar 8, 2009)

started on flats both road and mountain. Few months in I went to shimano 530 I think, clip and flat on the other. Couple times forgot I was clipped in and down I went at a stop sign. I already had seen the benefits of clipless so I stayed with them until it was second nature. I practiced the motion of unclipping often and have just the right amount of tension on them so unclipping is effortless as long as I rememeber I clipped in. 
Once comfortable on the road I went to clipless on local mountains, all familiar trails mostly xc stuff. On the technical stuff I go back to flats.

They are nothing more then tools requiring time and energy from you.

I was driving home the other day in my car and stopped at a red light. I watched an experienced cyclist, could tell by his bike and gear, pull up to the red light forgetting he was clipped in, could tell by his body language, lol.....and down he went.....it happens


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## Chinman (Dec 27, 2014)

I like clipless on my road bike, but I have no use for them on the trail. I'm sure it isn't as efficient, but I like hopping off the bike when I need to. Flat pedals are pretty awesome these days too! RaceFace AEffect for me.


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## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

You had the right idea riding around the yard. I started riding pretty late in life (40 or so) and when I went clipless I just rode around my yard. My neighbor made fun of me for wearing my helmet around the yard but I forced myself to panic stop and unclip.

About two years ago I started my son riding clipless. He was 10 at the time. We started with his 24" bike on the trainer. Then he rode around on the grass at his grandpas house while I tried to teach myself to wheelie. He's pretty good now, but I'm kicking myself as he's gone through two pairs of shoes and I am now looking for his third.


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## usdualsports (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm in the same boat you were in "still learning how to clip in and out and the only time I fall is when I'm going uphill and accidentally clip in and fall over. I can see how you would want to send them back I wanted to also but gave them another month and now I enjoy them. The Mallet's allow you to stay un-clipped when climbing steep technical up hills and when going down hills and they also allow you to clip in when going up long non technical uphills and that is where I find the most benefit with these pedals. If you get another wild hair I would give them a try again and just start out slowly and only clip in when you know your not going to fall, and as you get better you will find yourself clipped in more.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Always ride cleats...

I have more fear riding flats than with the cleats...

that goes for everything from jumping, rocky steep downhills...

to slick muddy rooty trails...and even ice and snow.

Way more power way more control...

Interesting note world cup downhillers are starting to use cleats.

To learn it is all about muscle memory. Clip one foot in' straddle the bike and stand on the other foot.

Push the heel out and down, and clip back in' repeat twenty to thirty times.....continue riding.

Whenevery you stop practice clipping out, a few times....doesn't take very long and you dont even think about it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Clipless for life. Started on them in 2000' on TIME ATAC and after a few painful rides I mastered them. Yes there is a learning curve but once your brain makes the connection there's never a problem getting out or in when needed. The problem is most riders that are used to flats don't give clipless their due time to learn. Once learned very few go back to flats.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I can't see ever riding flats, no matter the bike, no matter the terrain.


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## Dirk Ross (Jun 13, 2014)

I've used Shimano SPD pedals for over 15 years. Started with the 'multi-release' cleats but went with the standard cleats after a few months. There was one time when I couldn't unclip on a pedal but I attribute that to rider burnout. The Shimano pedals work great IME. And FYI I'll be 56 years old next month so I'm eligible to post in this forum!


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## lkfoster (Apr 2, 2004)

After riding clipless for years rode a hire bike the other day with flats. Never could get my feet in the correct position over the bouncy bits. 

With Shimano SPDs I never have an issue with unclipping, muscle memory takes care of that. I've used Time ATAC but never felt as confident unclipping in technical bits.


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

I have been clipless on the road since 1988 and on the MTB since 1991. Falling with clipless pedals is part of the learning curve. Give yourself a month. Then you won't know why you waited so long.
I do use flats on my fat bike for snow, but clipless on everything else.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

I had a 24yr break from cycling. A friend encouraged me to have a go at MTB'ing. First outing on a true adventure ride out in the back and beyond, I was give a pair of cycling shoes and clipless pedals - no practice. (I had been using what was familiar to me - toeclips and straps). I fell off on that ride 8 times. Always at silly slow speeds or when coming to a stop. Never fell off since. Would never part with this design, one of cycling's genuine advances.

Eric


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## 2old (Aug 31, 2015)

Rode my fatbike on the trails last night with flats. Feet moving around on the pedals in the rough and getting "sack punched" by the saddle is not cool. I love being clipped in.


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## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

My own personal experience was that i avoided them for years and wish i hadnt. Sure, I fell twice cause i had issues clipping out early on but the benefits far outweigh the detriments.

They may not be the best choice to you but IMO you didnt give them that much of a chance.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Yeah, and if you are used to clipless pedals, you will have a hard time getting off your flats until you relearn the motion. I use both now, never have a problem. Clipless are more secure, although you can pop out of them too on occasion. I like the Time ATAC pedals, feels like I'm locked in tighter. I have more fear of coming out of my pedals unexpectedly in the rough stuff than falling over at a stop. I like flats better for bikepacking, and for cold weather riding, although some years I forget to change them out in Spring. I use the Wellgo MG-1 flats, not too expensive, very light, enough pins to feel secure in Freeriders.


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## jrsbike (Jul 24, 2004)

I had to switch to flats when my knees started to go. I find that being able to make micro adjustments as I ride frees up the knees. Being locked in with clips causes too much strain and after an hour I'm done but with flats I can go all day.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

bsieb said:


> Yeah, and if you are used to clipless pedals, you will have a hard time getting off your flats until you relearn the motion. I use both now, never have a problem. Clipless are more secure, although you can pop out of them too on occasion. I like the Time ATAC pedals, feels like I'm locked in tighter. I have more fear of coming out of my pedals unexpectedly in the rough stuff than falling over at a stop. I like flats better for bikepacking, and for cold weather riding, although some years I forget to change them out in Spring. I use the Wellgo MG-1 flats, not too expensive, very light, enough pins to feel secure in Freeriders.


Ive always ran Time ATAC and have never had a problem with unexpected unclipping. On the contrary an easy in or out at any desired time. Some models like my Titan XS Carbon / Titaniums have a set screw for 3 adjustments for easy to hard release. I bought my Titans in 08' and set that screw once to my desired tension and have never touched it since. Plus ATACS have more float than most clipless designs. Which are ideal for people with bad knees. A slight left to right movement prevents knee damage. A 5 star product all day long.

Time Atac XS Titan Carbon Pedal Reviews - Mtbr.com


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I never clip in.

Not even on my fixed wheel bike.

My feet don't come off the pedals.

I regard clipless pedals as a piece of technology that really has an advantage only for genuine racers who put the time into training. I also reckon that they increase the prospects of a head plant in an OTB.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Velobike said:


> I regard clipless pedals as a piece of technology that really has an advantage only for genuine racers who put the time into training. I also reckon that they increase the prospects of a head plant in an OTB.


Not true. For me they decrease foot pain and are slightly more fun than riding flats, bonus is a noticeable improvement in power transfer. I don't race.

They do have drawbacks, clown-like tip overs being one, but I've always detached quite readily during OTB's.


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## qman2 (Oct 1, 2015)

Glad to share my experiences.

First off, if you're gonna go with clipless pedals, you need to have quick twitch muscles. You don't want to be slow getting out of the pedals. You may have to do it immediately. I'm a quick twitcher and every now and then I'm not quick enough. It's rare but it happens. 

I still have my first generation Shimano PD M525 (I think). I bought them in the mid 90s. They're scratched to hell, have hit thousands of rocks and boulders and still work perfectly fine. I have the original clips that I've swapped over through a number of pairs of shoes. Needless to say, I think the world of them. Zero maintenance.

Anyway, when I first put them on I had a hard time getting in and out. Got pissed one day and blased every square mm of them with WD-40. That first couple days they're slick and too easy to get out of but after a few days of riding they hold excellent and release easy. Every couple years when they start to stick again I give them another blast. It also worked for a buddy's egg-beaters that were new. Try that and see if it works for you. You should be able to snap right out with the twist of an ankle.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^My experience too, in a crash clipless pedals will reliably release you, usually instantly, while toe clips can be hard to back out of when being thrown. My only fall last year was going over the high side because I couldn't twist off my flats in time.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

jrsbike said:


> I had to switch to flats when my knees started to go. I find that being able to make micro adjustments as I ride frees up the knees. Being locked in with clips causes too much strain and after an hour I'm done but with flats I can go all day.


I don't really buy the whole knee pain with clipless thing. If that was true...you'd see lots of road riders on flats. Its a fit issue...not a pedal one.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> Not true. For me they decrease foot pain and are slightly more fun than riding flats, bonus is a noticeable improvement in power transfer. I don't race.
> 
> They do have drawbacks, clown-like tip overs being one, but I've always detached quite readily during OTB's.


I agree 100%, although the "clown like tip overs" only happen during the learning curve.



bsieb said:


> ^My experience too, in a crash clipless pedals will reliably release you, usually instantly, while toe clips can be hard to back out of when being thrown. My only fall last year was going over the high side because I couldn't twist off my flats in time.


And ditto as well.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I agree 100%, although the "clown like tip overs" only happen during the learning curve.


Not like the Pro's ever do that o_0









Sent from my Kin[G]_Pad ™


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> Not like the Pro's ever do that o_0
> 
> View attachment 1019512
> 
> ...


^^^ That's an endo, it's not a "clown like tip over". Anyone at any time no matter what pedal you are using could meet the same fate.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> ^^^ That's an endo, it's not a "clown like tip over". Anyone at any time no matter what pedal you are using could meet the same fate.


And it's much better not to have a bike attached to you when it happens...


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

?? only difference I see between the two images is a split second! 

-----------------------------------------------------------
'Yes! I'm an opinionated Mofo... Next question'.


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## EatsDirt (Jan 20, 2014)

targnik said:


> ?? only difference I see between the two images is a split second!


Do you not understand what an endo is?


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

EatsDirt said:


> Do you not understand what an endo is?


I don't understand that you don't understand what a split seconds difference means ;-P

-----------------------------------------------------------
'Yes! I'm an opinionated Mofo... Next question'.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I agree 100%, although the "clown like tip overs" only happen during the learning curve.


Maybe true, but my learning curve has taken over 25 years- so far. Of course it never happens during normal circumstances but sometimes while attempting a difficult uphill tech section a failure will still result in the dreaded tip over. It's a price I'm willing to pay.


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## Grok (Sep 4, 2015)

When I got back to biking 7 years ago I went clipless, that first year was hard.

Going to a DS this year (from a HD), I went with flats (fiveten shoes). I did this because I am trying so hard to re learn the basics (bunnyhops, manuals). Just concentrating on balance. I do hope once I am more comfortable I will go back to clipless, mostly because most of my rides are uphill.

My biggest problem with clipless is that eventually they f*ck up and I can't get out, almost always when at a light on the way back home. I have always used the SPD system and one side always eventually fails. I wonder if maybe I have not properly maintained them? Maybe I should try another system?

I am a beginner compared to most of the members of this site, but if I had a pair of clipless that I have full confidence in, I think I would prefer this over anything else.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Grok said:


> ...I wonder if maybe I have not properly maintained them?...


Every mechanical device fails eventually. Good maintenance just extends the life.

Good design means failure is infrequent, not catastrophic nor potentially painful. There's not much of that sort of design around bikes IMO.

If you keep your bike as simple as possible most bike failures can be avoided because the core bicycle is a very highly evolved machine.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Grok- Try Time ATACS or Crank Bros. Eggbeaters if you get a chance, you may like the simplicity and ease of use.

edit: Time ATAC Alium MTB Clipless Mountain Bicycle Pedals | eBay


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> Maybe true, but my learning curve has taken over 25 years- so far. Of course it never happens during normal circumstances but sometimes while attempting a difficult uphill tech section a failure will still result in the dreaded tip over. It's a price I'm willing to pay.


My "clown like tip overs" only happened for about 6 months. So I haven't had such an embarrassing moment in 15 years. Frequently for about 3 months but it soon became a thing of the past. Maybe it's because that Time ATACS are so easy to learn and user friendly. Easy in and out when desired.


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## jimmy (Jan 19, 2004)

rode clipless for years, but am now having some difficulty on stalls. Thanks for the update on the easy out shimano cleats. What type of shoe/flat combo do folks like for riding XC? 

Jimmy


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## Jpcannavo (Sep 4, 2015)

Still struggling with idea of clipless. Developed what ridding skills I have in the 80s with toe clips. Found them very effective, stabilizing, never were an issue falling or needing to pop foot out in an instant. Last year when my hardtail was stolen, replaced it with 29er hardtail with flats. Now on flats I struggle with hacking, small jumps-miss the secure feel of toeclips. It seems though that the MTB industry has entirely left them behind. I inclined to try clipless (considering Mallet 2s) but somehow feel that this is a case of newer technology and culture - clipless - overly and uneccessarily marginalizing the old-i.e. toeclips, as opposed to two different options coexisting. (its hard to belive that the former is always, and for all individuals, a better choice than the latter). In any case, I guess at age 55 I'll give this new trick a try and devote several dozens hours to a new learning curve to see how it goes.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

^clipless is better than toe clips in every conceivable way, I don't know anyone who has tried clipless and wanted to go back to toe clips & straps.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

I began reconsidering using clipless pedals on my bikes b/c as i age the recovery term from a tendon, knee or ankle injury just got longer. Not to mention the frustration of how the injury would impact the rest of my daily life since i ride and or walk a lot each day just getting to and from work. 

Urban-social riding, ive been using flat pedals with running or street shoes for the mobility & safety advantages over clipless shoes and b/c in these cases clipless are overkill. Between the MTBs ive been swapping a XT trekking pedal/SH 56 cleat combo and like it but ive been wanting to try flat pedals on my MTB just to see what its like. ON the roadie i swap back and forth between shimano clipless and cheap cleated flat pedals.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

i've had some near misses with crashes..i just get out of it somehow and wonder.."how did i unclip so fast"

muscle memory i guess. i dont even think about it. 

one time i rode with a sprained left ankle. i had to unclip that side, but my weakened joint didnt get it done in time..i toppled embarrasingly into a mailbox.and just got stuck there..box was kinda slippery to push off of..my right foot was kinda high in the air..i was laughing..it was bad.


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## wyo_biker (Dec 6, 2008)

Hi,

My first post on the 50’s plus thread…………..I am 58.

I thought I’d chime in on this topic.

I discovered the value of clipless pedals years ago as a road biker. I’ve been mountain biking for the last 8 years and after a year of riding flat pedals went clipless, and have never looked back.

Sure, they took some getting used to but like most things, with a little practice clipping-out becomes second-nature and your natural reaction. I do a lot of climbing and power transfer is so much better with clipless. It may sound odd, but I don’t even feel comfortable riding rock-gardens anymore unless both feet are clipped in. And yes, early on I had my fair share of “tip-overs” but they are a rare occurrence for me now.

I respect anyone’s choice on whether to ride flat or clipless pedals, but for me, even at 58 years old, I am still performance oriented and clipless give me an extra edge. 

I am riding Shimano XTR pedals (SPD). These pedals have a small screw allowing one to adjust the release tension for clipping out. 

Our winters here in Wyoming are prohibitive for year-around riding so in the off season I spend a couple days a week in spin class. And one benefit of the SPD cleats is that many spin bikes have SPD compatible pedals so you can clip in with your mountain bike shoes.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Nothing wrong with going back to flats if that is what works for you. I started running flats after riding clipless for a couple of decades. Don't miss being clipped in at all. I am riding faster and more aggressively, and most importantly, having more fun. There is also a learning curve for getting proficient at riding flats. Once you figure it out they work just as well as clipless.


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

Skooks said:


> Nothing wrong with going back to flats if that is what works for you. I started running flats after riding clipless for a couple of decades. Don't miss being clipped in at all. I am riding faster and more aggressively, and most importantly, having more fun. There is also a learning curve for getting proficient at riding flats. Once you figure it out they work just as well as clipless.


Same for me.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I've been riding clipless for 20 years as I did XC racing and jumping, endurance riding and the like. But then, I felt the need to expand my horizons and learn how to ride flats. Why?

- I ride daily around the neighborhood with my kids and felt naked without my clipless
- have a pump track in the backyard. And clipless is banned.
- travel all over and experience a lot more technical terrain than I'm used to.
- knee started hurting
- I could not jump one inch whenever I was on flats.

So I put in the time to learn flats. It took about a month to become comfortable. It took about a year to get to the level where I was. Basically, clipless taught me to pull up the bike with my feet. It taught me how to ride while locked in to the bike. So whenever I wasn't locked in, I couldn't ride proficiently. But I knew there was another way to stay glued to the bike using physics and motion.

But I knew it was possible because so many riders on flats could descend and jump much better than me. And they all outclimbed me too. Heck my kid could outride me wearing slippers.

So after a year, I learned. I'm a much better rider now as there's a lot of technique and heel positioning involved with flats. And you use physics and weighting/unweighting to stay glued to the bike. Also, I've saved myself from crashing about 5-10x by just by kicking myself back upright.

I clip in now on occasion but not too much. It's very easy to learn the bad habit of pulling with the pedals once you're clipped in.

The key is there is choice now intermediate and advanced riders, specially for the the intermediate/advanced rider. They can take either the clipless or flat route and not be forced into one clipless path. The route used to be 'beginner-flats' then graduate to clipless. Now, the advanced path could go either way. And I would recommend riders to avoid clipless as long as possible and really just convert to it with clear objectives.

Climbing is more efficient clipped in. At first, it's a lot cause of muscle memory. But at the end of the day, it's about 1-5% faster. That's important to some people but to most, it's a drop in the bucket.

Pedal options are here with thin and wide ones. Spank and VP Components are good choices. For shoes, FiveTen is king. Round-up: Best new flat pedals - Mtbr.com


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## wyo_biker (Dec 6, 2008)

"it's about 1-5% faster"

Where in the world did you come up with that statistic?


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Climbing might be slightly faster clipped in, but for me decending is faster (and more fun) on flats. I am 100% convinced that I have avoided some bad crashes by not being clipped in. Use whatever makes sense for you, but for me it's flats all the time. My 16 year old son races on a DH team and they do most of their training on flats and most of their racing on cleats. Coach says flats teach much better bike handling skills.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

Hey FC -

Any good articles on learning to ride with flats? Found a good one..

http://www.bikejames.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Flat-Pedal-Revolution-Manifesto.pdf


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## stevenguyenquang (Mar 26, 2015)

I fell in front of a car at a stop sign about 30 years ago using Look's first gen clip less pedals on my road bike. I don't recall ever having fallen due to clipless pedals on my mountain bike over the last 10 years or so, although I did hit a tree gently during the first 500 feet with me first pair of Ritchey clipless pedals. I'm now incapable of riding without clipless... 

Sent from my XT1049 using Tapatalk


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## GraniteBob (Nov 2, 2015)

61 year old rider here that returned to MBing a few years back. After building my skills back on flats, I was convinced to switch to clipless. I used the standard SPD gear and cleats and felt like I could handle it, which I did until I start to push things in terms of speed and terrain. I found no matter how much I practiced, I could not develop the muscle memory to quickly release. Two cracked ribs from two separate incidents convinced me to go back to flats.

Once I returned to flats, I hated not being "connected" to the bike and often had a foot bonce off the flat in an inopportune spot. It just didn't feel as comfortable or as capable, but I know that is a personal preference.

The solution for me was DX style pedals that function with or without being clipped in, PLUS the multi-release cleats described earlier. (Shimano SM-SH56)

I set the release to about mid-strength and have never had them release unexpectedly, even on hard clmbs and I am confident about bing able to clip out in almost any circumstance. That was about a year ago. It mad a huge difference for me, so hopefully that might be another option for you.

Just wanted to share if other folks hadn't researched this or had their riding buddies suggest it.


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## p08757 (Mar 15, 2012)

On my road bike and track bike I clip in. On my MTB, I have clips on the top and flats on the bottom. I find these to be a pain to use some times, but give me the best of both worlds especially when I have a technical section to ride and don't feel safe being clipped in.

During the winter I ride flats on my MTB the entire time.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If you wanna ride with Toe Clips, just make sure that you cinch those straps down tight like a bull rider cinches up on the rope, and everything will be just fine.


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm only 49, so I am still too young for this forum; I apologize for barging in. I have been on clipless for almost thirty years. This includes downhill, freeride, everything. I have zero issues with clipless. Perfectly comfortable in nasty rock gardens, large drops (well, large for me), kickers, roots, etc. However, much like FC, I knew I was also getting away with poor habits and felt a curiosity to figure out what they were. Enter flats. Been on them for about a month. First week I was like, "these things suck". I could not stay on them at all. Then I realized "I suck". 

I have several more rides under my belt now and getting a lot better. I have learned to flex my ankles, shift body position and other things to stay on the bike. I can already feel that I am becoming more fluid on the bike. In the long term, I will have better control. I am trying to get the manual thing now so I can do a proper bunny hop. What a b**ch that is to learn. 

Anyway, my point it is that they are both great ways to ride. Flats definitely force good riding habits. Clipless do not. Clipless are a godsend on nasty climbs. You spin out on flats, it's over. You spin out on clipless, you keep going. 

Neither is better or worse, just different. Clipless is easier though, once you are comfortable with getting out of them.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^ Good points, I have been riding flats for a whole season now, and am still finding them fun. I like the option of moving my foot forward on the pedal, almost like an extra gear or two in certain situations. I have used clipless pedals for decades, love my atacs, but flats let me wear 5.10 freeriders that are more comfortable to walk and lounge in while bikepacking, also are much easier and warmer in winter, which is why I got them initially. They are not as secure and my spin suffers a little, but I don't ride as hard/fast as I did in the past.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Cleared2land said:


> If you wanna ride with Toe Clips, just make sure that you cinch those straps down tight like a bull rider cinches up on the rope, and everything will be just fine.


That's not nice. You're gonna get someone hurt.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

OldGringo said:


> That's not nice. You're gonna get someone hurt.


Well...first, I think most on here understands the joke and I doubt anyone one would take that serious. Second, who still rides with toe clips and straps? I thought they went the way of the dial telephones and console televisions.


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

bsieb said:


> ^ They are not as secure and my spin suffers a little, but I don't ride as hard/fast as I did in the past.


I just picked up a pair of Spank Oozy pedals. The surface area is much larger than the old pair I placed on my bike. Also, much lower profile. I am amazed how glued the soles of my shoes are to these things. I think the large surface is the key. I will have to try it out on a particular climb where I tend to spin out to see how it does, but man, it is almost like being clipped.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Cleared2land said:


> Well...first, I think most on here understands the joke and I doubt anyone one would take that serious. Second, who still rides with toe clips and straps? I thought they went the way of the dial telephones and console televisions.


Yes, I was joking too. Although I bought my wife her first MTB about 3 years ago...a Trek Cali with toe clips and spring action straps.


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## Graveldad (Mar 31, 2015)

My 2 cents, been on clip less since '95 ish, recently added a set of flats to the mix. Clip less have been all shimano or shimano clones. I fell over clown style about 20 times in the first couple of months, then learned to get out instinctively, no problem since. The free float of clip less is easier on my knees than flats, as long as the cleats are adjusted correctly. Multi release shimano cleats are dangerous for technical riding, the release is just too easy, leading to the occasional unexpected release and the wild ride that follows.. Currently alternating between XT trails with sidi dominators and spank spikes with 510s. Basically swapping pedals every couple of months, no real schedule, I'm just enjoying the variety.


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