# XPG 3x Helmet Light



## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Picked up some single XPG's to make a quad helmet light and decided to get a tripple to see what it would look like. This was a piece of cake to put together. Simple hand tools can be used and it's got a lot of light. Riding reviews to follow, aong with beamshots. 

The driver is a 3023 buckpuck with a dimmer on a 2200mA 14.8v batter. Runtime should be around 3 hours.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Nice. Those little triples are going to make it so easy to have a killer helmet light.

JZ


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

These 1000ma buckpucks will give 1000ma to each LED...is that correct?


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## ortelius (Dec 6, 2007)

Yes, if leds are wired in series...


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Rich_SC said:


> These 1000ma buckpucks will give 1000ma to each LED...is that correct?


Yes. The 3 led's are in series on the board.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Nice! 

I'm also planning a 3 x XP-G light, only I'm gonna use single 10mm square ones, placed next to each other w/10mm Carclo lenses. 

Front area would be 3/4" x 1-1/2", and the body would be around 1-1/2" long. Driven by a b- or nFlex with an external pushbutton.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

langen said:


> Nice!
> 
> I'm also planning a 3 x XP-G light, only I'm gonna use single 10mm square ones, placed next to each other w/10mm Carclo lenses.
> 
> Front area would be 3/4" x 1-1/2", and the body would be around 1-1/2" long. Driven by a b- or nFlex with an external pushbutton.


The other helmet light was a quad XP-G with the 10mm optics. Puts out a lot of light, but it was a little harder to solder and assemble.


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## redbeans (Dec 15, 2005)

Great looking light. I've been off the board for a while and not keeping up with the new LEDs and optics. I'm sure these questions are answered elsewhere in the forum, but I couldn't find them.

What optic are you using? How do you like it? Also, were the three LEDs pre-mounted on a base to match the optic? What size is your housing? Is heat a big issue, or are your heat fins more of a preemptive measure? 

Any tips on sources would be great too.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

Have you had a chance to use the triple XPG light? I have built a couple of them now and have been very disapointed with them as a helmet light... let me know what you think


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

tamen00 said:


> Have you had a chance to use the triple XPG light? I have built a couple of them now and have been very disappointed with them as a helmet light...


Is the beam too wide?

JZ


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

JimZinVT said:


> Is the beam too wide?
> 
> JZ


Any chance of some beam shots? Id like to see what its like compared to my Dual P7's..
Obviously im comparing 3XPG's against 1 P7..


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

It's been raining for 2 days again and it's not supposed to stop until Saturday. Hopefully this weekend I'll get a couple of comparison shots to post up.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

JimZinVT said:


> Is the beam too wide?
> 
> JZ


Yeah, the beam is too wide and does not throw very far. I did a solo race last weekend and I was outrunning the light, even when tired in the middle of the night

I had two identical lights, one on handlebar and one on helmet. They are both 3xpg with narrow 20mm optics, 1000mah. There is a lot of light that come out of these things for about 30-40 feet... but not much beyond that.

I have tried the 10mm optics as well... same thing. I wish the beam shots that we see could really show the lack of throw these have. Some of the beamshots look really good... but my lights in real life do not work on the helmet...


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

redbeans said:


> What optic are you using? How do you like it? Also, were the three LEDs pre-mounted on a base to match the optic? What size is your housing? Is heat a big issue, or are your heat fins more of a preemptive measure? Any tips on sources would be great too.


Optic is the 3x from Cutter, I picked the narrowest option. Led's came on the base from Cutter too. Housing is standard 1" tube from Home Depot. The fins came from Lowes.



> Have you had a chance to use the triple XPG light? I have built a couple of them now and have been very disapointed with them as a helmet light... let me know what you think


Not yet. I did ride the 4x last week and loved it as a helmet light. It's the brightest that I've used to date and the smallest.

The cooling fins are necessary. The XPG puts out a good bit of heat. The fins do a good job of keeping the housing cool. There's about 2.6 square inches of cooling surface. On a 60deg night it didn't even get warm while riding.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

I have had the same experience as some of the other posters here. I built a light using 4 XP-Gs on 10mm MCPCBs with the tightest Carclo 10mm individual optics. The amount of light is impressive but it is much to floody for a headlight.

I am planning to build a headlight using a single XP-G with the Ledil CXP Real Spot optic which is rated at 5.5 degrees FWHM so hopefully might give a tighter beam and a bit more throw. If successful I might then double these up on the helmet.

Regards,

OTH


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Aborting on XPG Triple optic helmet plan then if this is the case  Sounding similar if not worse for throw than my MC-E torch with 36mm ish reflector to be fair.

Will see how standard P60 ( and a smooth ) reflectors stack up with these soon ish, vaguely!!


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Stopped raining. Here's the beamshots. The wind caused some focus problems.
In order 3xre 3xpg, 4xpe, 4xpg.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

4xpe + 4xpg vs. Dual MCE


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Whats the rules for camera settings?


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

The "official" mtbr beamshot settings are: F4, 6 seconds, iso 100, white balance = daylight.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Am I missing something here as I dont seem to agree about throw and spill of the XPE/ G

I do agree about the wider beam of the G but as far as I can work out and from the lights I have made they are making cracking lights for helmet or bars .

here is a shot of 3 xpes and 10417 narrow carclo @ 1000ma 
in the batteries included light 
now am i being simplistic here but if the the leds were replaced with XPGs then that beam would still be there and throw just as far but also be wider



















Which also makes a great night dog walking light too

There are a few of these cases available at cost from the machine shop anodized grey 
if anyone wants to build one .


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

From the limited testing ot the 2 quad lights (xpg and xpe), the xpg looks like it has more punch, more light, and has a little added spill. So far, I don't see a down side. 

The lights are getting too powerful for my backyard. Who knows when the trails will be dry enough to ride, but I will get some long shots for better comparison.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Am I missing something here as I dont seem to agree about throw and spill of the XPE/ G
> 
> I do agree about the wider beam of the G but as far as I can work out and from the lights I have made they are making cracking lights for helmet or bars .
> 
> ...


Beamshots look impressive to me, im just curious how 3 of these compare to one of my single P7's with a DX 52mm reflector.
If there better than i might consider making a smaller light with XPG's, Im going to take some beam shots tonight if its not raining.
I know im comparing apples with oranges, in reality i should be comparing the XPG with XRE, but then i dont have a XRE light..


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> Am I missing something here as I dont seem to agree about throw and spill of the XPE/ G
> I do agree about the wider beam of the G but as far as I can work out and from the lights I have made they are making cracking lights for helmet or bars .


Kind of odd... I would have thought the same thing but actually using the lights at race speed I was very very disappointed. Seemed like the light just died and I was outrunning it. Never had the issue with 3xpe... or 2 XRE with tight optics.

I have thought about this a lot... and I think that the issue may be too much light with a triple XPG on bar and a triple on the helmet. I think it might be possible that there is so much light in the first 40-50 feet that it is causing night vision issues further down the trail (that is my theory) The pictures posted look great... but real world application is not good.

One other caveat... I am racing in AZ, and the desert ground reflects light back up... sand and rocks are light colored. I think this might be very different if the color of the ground is dark... or if it is raining. We also have sections of trail that are wide open... so you can roll 25+miles an hour on singletrack.

And, one last thought. I have tried to use these lights on my roadbike... and similar experience. They do not throw enough to be useful on the road so I am back to the old lights until new optics are available (it is going to be awesome when they are!!!)


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I think you need to only use them if you riding slow not at race speed..


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

tamen00 said:


> I think it might be possible that there is so much light in the first 40-50 feet that it is causing night vision issues further down the trail


I think this is probably correct. With the new generation of LEDs, we're producing a tremendous amount of light. Your eye's adjust to the very bright foreground and so can't see detail in the darker distance. A narrow spot beam doesn't brighten the foreground much, so your eyes adjust to what you're looking at in the distance.

Looking at the hundreds of beamshots over the past months, I think Troutie's Lumen Liberator® with XP-Es does it best: good downrange throw with soft foreground and side fill. That trout is a keeper :thumbsup:

JZ


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

JimZinVT said:


> I think this is probably correct. With the new generation of LEDs, we're producing a tremendous amount of light. Your eye's adjust to the very bright foreground and so can't see detail in the darker distance. A narrow spot beam doesn't brighten the foreground much, so your eyes adjust to what you're looking at in the distance.
> 
> Looking at the hundreds of beamshots over the past months, I think Troutie's Lumen Liberator® with XP-Es does it best: good downrange throw with soft foreground and side fill. That trout is a keeper :thumbsup:
> 
> JZ


Yeah, the liberator is cool... super cool... but wouldn't it exagerate this issue because it provides even more light in the first 40-50 feet... I am only talking helmet mount.. not bar mount. This is a spectacular idea for bar light.

And you said it AWESOME! The spot would not illuminate the foreground much and provide more light downrange to allow eyes to adjust... like my XPE is doing.

OK... I really think this makes sense now. The throw is still pretty poor with the XPG on the roadbike... but troutie and others will find out what works and then we just go from there!


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

It would be nice if we could get mixed boards from cutter, you know 1 xp-e r2, 1 xp-e neutral white, and 1xp-g r5 on the same board. That would really be something. 

I will have to quit being so lazy and get some one with a decent camera to take some photos of some beam shots at some point. I just got the new ledil 22mm round single xp-e/g optic. I will be doing a single led helmet mount light with it. Its going to be some of my best work, I think in terms of total package, lumen per dollar and extra features.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

JimZinVT said:


> The "official" mtbr beamshot settings are: F4, 6 seconds, iso 100, white balance = daylight.


Whats the F4, 6 seconds refer to? sorry being dumb here.
Using a canon ixus 950 Is

exposure long shutter 6 seconds?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Ive just found out that on the canon ixus 950is you cant control aperture!!
So i took pictures with all the other settings but obviously not the aperture setting.
1P7








2P7








These next 2 were taken with a old Powershot A75 3.2mp with all settings to Mtbr rules
1P7








2P7









Sorry im not trying to hijack this thread but just trying to give a comparison with the XPG's,
looking at trouties pic i do think you get less spot with the XPG's..T

saying that 40AET's pics have plenty of spot..

Troutie how did you take such a good picture? mine absolutly suck..


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Tripod?

You can't really hand-hold the camera at a speed slower than about 1/30 of a second without blurring.

JZ


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Whats the F4, 6 seconds refer to? sorry being dumb here.
> Using a canon ixus 950 Is
> 
> exposure long shutter 6 seconds?


How wide the shutter opens. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F_stop


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

F4 refers to the aperature and the 6 seconds refers to the speed of the shutter. If you have a point and shoot, look at the manual settings and see if you can set the aperature and shutter speeds youself. A tripod is a must and a remote control is a help. Wind was a factor in my photos. At slow shutter speeds, everything blurs. 

Goood luck


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

There's a technique for shooting night shots without a tripod that produces pretty good shots. Make your manual settings as described above but use the 2 second timer function. Keep both elbows tight to your sides while holding the camera and exhale slowing as the timer counts down. Minimizes shake.


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## dan THE man (Jan 21, 2009)

Camera settings are something I need to look into and learn aswell. More importantly I to would be interested in how the triple XP-G compares to a single P7 or MC-E.

Every time I decide on a design something fantastic comes along and its back to the drawing board:madman:


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## WeLight (Aug 12, 2007)

bikerjay said:
 

> It would be nice if we could get mixed boards from cutter, you know 1 xp-e r2, 1 xp-e neutral white, and 1xp-g r5 on the same board. That would really be something.
> 
> I will have to quit being so lazy and get some one with a decent camera to take some photos of some beam shots at some point. I just got the new ledil 22mm round single xp-e/g optic. I will be doing a single led helmet mount light with it. Its going to be some of my best work, I think in terms of total package, lumen per dollar and extra features.


Tell me what you need, we can can make to order


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

> Camera settings are something I need to look into and learn aswell. More importantly I to would be interested in how the triple XP-G compares to a single P7 or MC-E.


After it stops snowing, I can take a beam shot of a single MCE and compare it to the 3x XPG. If you don't see it in a timely fashion, shoot me a PM.


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## dan THE man (Jan 21, 2009)

thanks 40AET, that would be great.

Are you using the carclo 20mm round triple (XP-E) or 3x 10mm square optics. I'm thinking of using the square ones as 3 in a row may give a nicer beam pattern for riding. Just a theory at the moment.

At least you can protect half made prototypes a little better from snow. It seems to start raining everytime I plan to go out here. and the trails are very soggy


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dan THE man said:


> Are you using the carclo 20mm round triple (XP-E) or 3x 10mm square optics. I'm thinking of using the square ones as 3 in a row may give a nicer beam pattern for riding. Just a theory at the moment.


There shouldn't be a noticeable difference between the two unless you have cable shadow issues (I do!).

Just clearing that because a similar comment appeared last week too, something like;
_closer together means more intense light_. :skep:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

.40AET said:


> After it stops snowing, I can take a beam shot of a single MCE and compare it to the 3x XPG. If you don't see it in a timely fashion, shoot me a PM.


I'm interested in that comparison as well. Not going to be easy though with snow on the ground. You might have to do a road or paved trail shot. I live in Md. as well. Looks like trails will be mucked up a good while with all the precipitation we've had. The snow was just the icing on the cake. 

I tried to do a comparison last night using a combo one xp-g and one xr-e r2. With the snow on the ground it was impossible to see any difference ( vs. just one ).


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

just been walking the doggy again ( he likes this light thing he gets more walks ) 
and as this is talking about triples thought I would add this to it 
2 lights 1 xpgs R5 1 xpes R2 both with the narrow 10417 optic and both @ 1000ma drive .
camera was 5 secs f4 as I forgot to readjust it

and trees 50 paces


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Are those electric razors from the art deco era? Very nice!

JZ


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'm interested in that comparison as well. Not going to be easy though with snow on the ground. You might have to do a road or paved trail shot. I live in Md. as well. Looks like trails will be mucked up a good while with all the precipitation we've had. The snow was just the icing on the cake.
> 
> I tried to do a comparison last night using a combo one xp-g and one xr-e r2. With the snow on the ground it was impossible to see any difference ( vs. just one ).


We need to hook up for a night ride. I'm in Ellicott City about 10 min from the Landing Road drop in.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

.40AET said:


> We need to hook up for a night ride. I'm in Ellicott City about 10 min from the Landing Road drop in.


Yep, I'm in Columbia..about 10 min away as well. I think we're pretty much done for the season right now but I'll remember the offer when spring rolls around.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Done for the season? No! I just got in from tonight's ride....an inch or 2 of fresh snow on the ground, light snow falling, no one out there except me and the dog. It was awesome. The lights seem super bright reflecting off the snow; I was running at med. or low much of the time. 

I'm 10 hours drive north of you guys....you should have lots of riding weather left. I'm not stopping until it's too deep to ride through.

JZ


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Jim Z in VT said:


> Done for the season? No! I just got in from tonight's ride....an inch or 2 of fresh snow on the ground, light snow falling, no one out there except me and the dog. It was awesome. The lights seem super bright reflecting off the snow; I was running at med. or low much of the time.
> 
> I'm 10 hours drive north of you guys....you should have lots of riding weather left. I'm not stopping until it's too deep to ride through.
> 
> JZ


lol...I think Vermont is a bit more than a stone's throw from Maryland.  Most of the snow we get in our area tends to be the wet/slushy type as temps are usually not far from freezing. Every once in a while we get lucky and get a nice small ( 4" or less ) dry snow that doesn't melt as long as it is real cold. Nothing like riding on a nice firm pack of snow. Living up in Vermont I guess you get good snow all the time.

Right behind where I live is section of paved bike path that weaves through the community. Sometimes I use those paved paths for light tests because they are close by. If there's a light snow and conditions are right, riding the snow covered paths are like riding on white dirt. Even better is riding on hard pack but that is a rare commodity in my neck of the woods..If I lived in Vermont I would definitely own a set of Nokians.


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

.40AET... what did you glue the star onto? Looks like an alloy plug that fits inside the 1" square tubing?

And how did you affix that piece on the housing?

Also... looks like you ran the power out of the bottom of the light rather than out the end with the switch? (or do I have that backwards?)

this little devil will likely be a light I go after next. You did a great job on it and it looks within the realm of possibility for my skills, so any help would be great. Thanks.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

racerdave said:


> .40AET... what did you glue the star onto? Looks like an alloy plug that fits inside the 1" square tubing?
> 
> And how did you affix that piece on the housing?
> 
> ...


I have some "L" channel aluminum that is cut to fit into the tube. The star is glued to the piece of aluminum and that is glued into the top of the tube. (both with Arctic Alumina) SP?

Yes, the power cord is run out of the bottom of tube and the dimmer knob is on the end. I've been experimenting with different ways to get everything into the little tube. Trying to keep it small makes getting everthing into it challenging. I used a band saw and a belt sander to do most of the work. However, I built my first light with a hacksaw and some files. This one is easier than "Achesalot" design that I first built. Make everything a little oversized and work them together with a file or sandpaper. Take your time and it will all fall together. All of us are happy to help with any questions. Thanks for the kind words.

PS-Another 2" of rain, no photos and no riding.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I am in NOVA and really like riding potapsco on week days when the drive doesn't take 2 hours. The local trails here, Wake Field, Fountain Head, and Difficult run all have spots that look like puddles, however they never dry because its actually just the water table. I am originally from Phoenix, AZ and seriously wonder if it ever stops raining here..... I really had no idea that temperate climate means 40 something degrees and raining more often than not.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> I am in NOVA and really like riding potapsco on week days when the drive doesn't take 2 hours. The local trails here, Wake Field, Fountain Head, and Difficult run all have spots that look like puddles, however they never dry because its actually just the water table. I am originally from Phoenix, AZ and seriously wonder if it ever stops raining here..... I really had no idea that temperate climate means 40 something degrees and raining more often than not.


This year has been the worst that I can remember for rain. It usually isn't this bad. Last year it rained so much that I bought a road bike for fear of losing my current fitness level. It looks like a short stretch is coming without any rain. Photos and hopefully a ride are on the list for Sunday.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

*3x XPG & 1 MCE*

The first photo is a 3x XPG light and the second one is 1 MCE.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

had a at a single P60 XP-G tonight ( mine arrived as a Q3 I think ) and I got lucky the Q3 was better, it was poorly focus too large of a spot and my R2's even the Q3 out ranged it, it makes for a good bar mounted light though.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

.40AET said:


> The first photo is a 3x XPG light and the second one is 1 MCE.


Impressive...:thumbsup: This is with the Cutter 3N optics?


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Impressive...:thumbsup: This is with the Cutter 3N optics?


Yes, it's the narrowest 3x optic that Cutter has. Hard freeze today and tonight. There could be some riding this weekend.


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## racerdave (May 12, 2007)

Excellent. Thanks for the tips, 40.

Does that dimmer work well? I'd guess you'd be able get more runtime out of the battery that way?

Have you had a chance to see what kind of runtime you get out of it with the 14.4?

I'm going to build one of these bad boys next (still have another to finish first).

Thanks again!


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

The only reason I put a dimmer on the light is to turn it down when we stop to talk. Nothin' worse than getting 900 lumens in the eye on a ride. For the most part I ride with all 3 lights at full power. 

The 3x XPG should run just over 3 hours on a 2200 mAh battery. I run one set up like that for the helmet and a pair of 4x XPG's with a 14.8v 4400mAh battery on the handlebars. It's somewhere in the area of 3000 lumens.


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## dan THE man (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks 40,

Seems better all round, more throw and brighter spill. I'm thinking of using a triple for the bars and using an mc-e on the helmet with an iris?!?

Got to use them somewhere. Just got to decide how to house it.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

dan THE man said:


> Thanks 40,
> 
> Seems better all round, more throw and brighter spill. I'm thinking of using a triple for the bars and using an mc-e on the helmet with an iris?!?
> 
> Got to use them somewhere. Just got to decide how to house it.


If you can, try to use the same mounting hardware so the 2 lights can be changed around. "Most" riders use a wider beam on the bar and a spot on the helmet. Personally, the MCE doesn't have enough throw to be a usefull helmet light. The spill from the MCE is kind of just lost in the air whereas it could be lighting up the trail on the bars. I'm tall, so it may be a personal problem with the lights. :skep:


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

No hands-on experience, but from the beamshots I've seen here the Iris seems to be the only MC-E optic that makes a tight spot beam. Seems like a great helmet beam, if you don't mind the size.

JZ


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## dan THE man (Jan 21, 2009)

.40AET said:


> If you can, try to use the same mounting hardware so the 2 lights can be changed around. "Most" riders use a wider beam on the bar and a spot on the helmet. Personally, the MCE doesn't have enough throw to be a usefull helmet light. The spill from the MCE is kind of just lost in the air whereas it could be lighting up the trail on the bars. I'm tall, so it may be a personal problem with the lights. :skep:


I was going to use the mc-e as a helmet light as the ledil iris seems to give a bit more throw.

Plus I've spent the money now I need to do something with them.


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