# Looking at Norco Charger 24 or Orbea MX 24 Trail



## GT5050 (Jan 23, 2008)

First off, I've seen on these forums that a few folks have the Orbea MX Team Disc 24 and it's well received. However, it looks like the new model for 2018 is the MX 24 Trail, with the biggest difference being a suspension fork.

Anyhow, my son is going to need to graduate to a 24" bike later this year, and these two bikes seem to be among the better ones in terms of components for the price:

Orbea MX 24 Trail

Norco Charger 24

I'd be curious if anyone has experience with these bikes. From what I've read so far they are both a reasonable weight, and the fact that both have air forks is huge in my book. It helps that my LBS carries both brands.

One thing that I notice, and perhaps someone can help with, is that the geometry numbers seem to be all over the place. For instance, the Norco has shorter chainstays, shorter reach, steeper head angle, yet is longer in wheelbase? This doesn't add up. Given the Orbea's numbers, it should be longer. Also, standover is dramatically different on the two bikes, at least per specs. In fact standover on the Norco is 5" less!! Now I don't think in fact that is the case, so again I'd like someone with hands-on experience with either bike to chime in, but if the specs are true then the Norco will fit a smaller rider more easily.

Aside from geometry, the biggest difference I can see is that the Orbea has better drivetrain, but that's about it.

The only other bike I've seen in this price point with a good component spec is the Diamondback Sync'r, but from what I've read it's a bit heavy and I'm not sure if it has an air fork. Also, I'd need to swap cranks on that to something shorter right away. Any other bikes in the 500-800 range? The bikes from the big players seem to be weak.

I realize there are other threads on 24" bikes, but specifically I wanted to stick to this price point and didn't want to derail any of the other threads. Thanks!


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

GT5050 said:


> I realize there are other threads on 24" bikes, but specifically I wanted to stick to this price point and didn't want to derail any of the other threads. Thanks!


Do you know what the Norco and Orbea weight? Personally I'd lean towards the Orbea if it were me for the 10 speed drivetrain alone. A quick 140mm crank upgrade with 30t chainring and 11-42 cassette is fairly cheap and you should be dialed.

Not sure about the geo, something is suspect for sure. If the Orbea standover is really 26 inches, your kid might not even be close to fitting if that's really correct and he's just coming off a 20". On paper the Norco would fit better.

Another one to check out is the Cleary Meercat with suspension fork. $660.00
https://www.clearybikes.com/collections/our-bikes/products/meerkat-24-with-suspension-fork-bicycle


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

The geo for the Orbea is incorrect for sure. My son has the MX 24 Team Disc and the first thing I noted before even buying it was that the head angle was in no way 66 degrees. I estimated on my computer screen with a traced piece of paper that it was around 70 degrees and I confirmed this when I got the bike in my hands. I wouldn't have even considered the bike if it was 66. Now that I've thrown on a fork that has about 420 a2c it is around 69.5 degrees. I suspect that the Trail will probably be around that as well with the fork specced. 

Wheelbase with 420 fork is around 950. Top tube is closer to 515 than 519. BB height is 274. 

The Team Disc was 24.5 with pedals. I estimate the Trail should be 25.5.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Taking a look at the Norco, and knowing what I know about the Orbea...I'd get the Orbea, hands down. The spec is inferior on the Norco...for more. The price is Canadian so it's probably not as much as that, but that will still be more than the Orbea and just not as good. 

I agree that the numbers are a little weird on the Norco too. There's just no way that the wheelbase can be what they say with such short chainstays and that short of a TT. Even with a 69 degree head angle. 

One reason I really liked the Orbea was because the effective top tube was not overly short, just so that it could fit a kid coming off a 20" sooner. It is a decent length TT with short stays out back and that's a good thing when considering bike handling AND factoring tire/toe over lap with the front wheel. What I did for my son is get a Wren 40mm stem to shorten his reach to pretty close to what his 20" was (he's already ready for the 50mm), while being on a bike that he can grow into and won't need an overly long stem once he is grown into it. This as well as not being too close to the front wheel as far as weight distribution and having too close of clearance with the front wheel. 500 is just too short for a 24. Factoring that these 24's are coming most times with 152mm cranks you can see that their feet will be really close to that front wheel if the front center is too short. ( I put 135's on my sons bike btw...much closer to what my 175's are considering our respective leg length. I don't think 152's are correct even for the majority of outgoing 24" riders) Good thing is the Orbeas are a good crank for chopping down, but there's also Trailcraft's cranks in 140.


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## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

GT5050 said:


> The only other bike I've seen in this price point with a good component spec is the Diamondback Sync'r, but from what I've read it's a bit heavy and I'm not sure if it has an air fork.


I had 2015 Sync'r 24 and as far as I can tell the current (2017) model still comes with the same fork (SR Suntour XCR 24" w/ 80mm Travel, 28mm Stanchions). If an air fork is important, you could switch to XCR LO 24 Air for $149.95 as part of the Suntour Upgrade Program. If you have access to DB Corporate Program, you can get a Sync'r 24, upgrade the fork, and still pay about $200 less than Orbea or Norco. PM me for details; not sure how much is appropriate to disclose on the forum.

Sorry for the push toward the Sync'r - had the bike for almost 2 years and loved it! I still think it offers tremendous value for the money.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

If the price is that good, that ain't a bad bike to grab. Myself, for my son would want that as an additional bike for sure.

Edit...that's the FS bike right? Doesn't that come with an X-fusion fork?


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## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

jochribs said:


> If the price is that good, that ain't a bad bike to grab. Myself, for my son would want that as an additional bike for sure.
> 
> Edit...that's the FS bike right? Doesn't that come with an X-fusion fork?


No, Sync'r 24 is a hard tail. Full suspension from DB is called Splinter 24. They still have 2016 available for an awesome price.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Gotcha, was just checking it out. Not a bad parts spec on that thing.


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## MidnightFattie (Jun 13, 2017)

The thing with kids is that the most important and valuable thing is for them to develop their bike control skills. They need to learn how to lift each wheel, bunny hop, manual, get over obstacles. The beauty of this is that once they learn these skills, they will have them forever, and continue to develop them. Kudos to you for being an awesome parent.

If you get a bike that is large for your kid, they will do most of their riding sitting down. That's great for being a roadie, but totally one dimensional and not going to teach them real MTB skills. 

I got my 9 year old a 24" fat bike. It's got long chain stays. It's 33 lbs. She weighs about 65 lbs. The long WB and fat tires makes it a very stable ride, which is good for confidence, initially. But it's just too long for her to "man-handle". Even if she does a manual position "butt buzz" by sitting as far back and low as possible, her butt is still ahead of the rear axle. Manuals are impossible with this geo. And if this is the only bike she'll ride, she won't learn how much more than how to sit and spin and plow over stuff. Plus, the standover clearance is totally minimal. It's not ideal, at all. 

So I recently got her a Inspired Flow 20" bike, which is a street trials bike. It has short stays, high bottom bracket, short WB, longer stem, higher bars, and tons of standover clearance. Almost immediately, she learned how to pop her front wheel up, pop the back wheel up, and now is working on learning to bunnyhop. Even better, she has to stand when she rides (it has a seat, but it's so low that it's not really for pedaling), so this has become totally comfortable. Her bike skills are improving big time. And she is able to transfer these back to her fat bike. 

I really think it just makes more sense to start kids off on light, short WB bikes with small wheels, short stays, and lots of standover clearance so they are in a much better setup to learn their bike skills. Once they learn how to unweight, hop, manual, they'll be able to transfer this back to MTB. If you get your kid a big MTB, they will be sitting down over everything and this just is not conducive to learning handling skills. 

Based on my own anecdotal experience, it just makes way more sense to start kids on a BMX or trials bike than a MTB. Ideally, they can have both. I'll even bet that your buddies who have the most bike handling skills were the ones who started out on BMX. The dudes who didn't ride BMX and came to MTB from road bikes usually don't have great skills, IME. Starting a kid off on a large (for them) MTB is more akin to riding a road bike than a BMX because of the fact they'll mostly ride seated. YMMV!


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## GT5050 (Jan 23, 2008)

Szy_szka said:


> I had 2015 Sync'r 24 and as far as I can tell the current (2017) model still comes with the same fork (SR Suntour XCR 24" w/ 80mm Travel, 28mm Stanchions). If an air fork is important, you could switch to XCR LO 24 Air for $149.95 as part of the Suntour Upgrade Program. If you have access to DB Corporate Program, you can get a Sync'r 24, upgrade the fork, and still pay about $200 less than Orbea or Norco. PM me for details; not sure how much is appropriate to disclose on the forum.
> 
> Sorry for the push toward the Sync'r - had the bike for almost 2 years and loved it! I still think it offers tremendous value for the money.


You're certainly making me look more at the Sync'r also, and outside of that the Orbea seems to be the way to go between the two I asked about. I do have access to the promotive/Experticity deal on the DB, so it makes it pretty enticing price-wise.



MidnightFattie said:


> The thing with kids is that the most important and valuable thing is for them to develop their bike control skills. They need to learn how to lift each wheel, bunny hop, manual, get over obstacles. The beauty of this is that once they learn these skills, they will have them forever, and continue to develop them. Kudos to you for being an awesome parent.
> 
> If you get a bike that is large for your kid, they will do most of their riding sitting down. That's great for being a roadie, but totally one dimensional and not going to teach them real MTB skills.
> 
> ...


What a spot-on reply! I am big on teaching standing, and I believe my son is good about it. His bike handling is getting pretty solid, especially low speed stuff. We also do BMX, and while we are not big into it or race every week, he started standing all the time at 4. Couldn't agree more about proper sized bikes and teaching bike control.

I do see some parents try to get their kids to religiously pedal seated, with high seats, for the sake of efficiency and all that. Problem is they go over obstacles seated and there's no sense of letting the bike move freely under them. My approach is skills first... anyway, here are a couple or recent pics:


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## Szy_szka (Oct 29, 2015)

GT5050 said:


> You're certainly making me look more at the Sync'r also, and outside of that the Orbea seems to be the way to go between the two I asked about. I do have access to the promotive/Experticity deal on the DB so it makes it pretty enticing price-wise


Great! Be sure to try TAKE10 or SAVE5 coupon codes to save an additional 10% or 5%.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

On the topic of bike handling and chainstay length/geometry. It looks like the Syncr chainstays are a bit long-ish @ 410mm. More along the lines of what the Grand Canyon 24 & Cleary Meerkat chainstays are. Not exactly a limo or anything. Just not super short. Still a helluva value.

Compared to the Orbea, Trailcraft, Spawn Yama Jama & Prevelo Zulu- All hovering around 380ish.

Sure is interesting to study the geometry on these bikes. Seems some kids bike mfrs are into trail and speed stability to "center" rider weight while others are into maneuverability. It's a trade off for sure.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Szy_szka said:


> I had 2015 Sync'r 24 and as far as I can tell the current (2017) model still comes with the same fork (SR Suntour XCR 24" w/ 80mm Travel, 28mm Stanchions). If an air fork is important, you could switch to XCR LO 24 Air for $149.95 as part of the Suntour Upgrade Program. If you have access to DB Corporate Program, you can get a Sync'r 24, upgrade the fork, and still pay about $200 less than Orbea or Norco. PM me for details; not sure how much is appropriate to disclose on the forum.
> 
> Sorry for the push toward the Sync'r - had the bike for almost 2 years and loved it! I still think it offers tremendous value for the money.


My next door neighbor picked up a Sync'r 24 for his 9 year old son a few weeks ago using the corporate discount. Crazy good deal. The 2017 comes with a nice Sram NX 1x11 set up. Just as you suggested, he also upgraded to a Suntour air fork under the $149 fork upgrade program. Great deal!

My son has a Transition Ripcord 24" full suspension mtb. But under the same corporate discount program, I just picked up a Diamondback Podium 24" road bike for my 8 year old.









Diamondback really has some killer value for their kids bikes.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

SactoGeoff said:


> On the topic of bike handling and chainstay length/geometry. It looks like the Syncr chainstays are a bit long-ish @ 410mm. More along the lines of what the Grand Canyon 24 & Cleary Meerkat chainstays are. Not exactly a limo or anything. Just not super short. Still a helluva value.
> 
> Compared to the Orbea, Trailcraft, Spawn Yama Jama & Prevelo Zulu- All hovering around 380ish.
> 
> Sure is interesting to study the geometry on these bikes. Seems some kids bike mfrs are into trail and speed stability to "center" rider weight while others are into maneuverability. It's a trade off for sure.


I think you have to blend geometry and light weight to see the real performance gains. 3+ years ago we ended up gettting a Marin Bayview Trail for the very reason of shorter chainstays. It was the only game in town with 400mm chainstays which was considered short back then. TwoTone sold us on this bike for the better geometry. Everything else was in the 410-420mm range. Trailcraft was just starting at the time with 390mm. The Marin actually looked like it was a better bike a few years ago, it looks down spec'd and even heavier now!

Buy the best bike you can afford with the best spec. Wheels and tires are the easiest and most important part to start, but by far the most expensive to upgrade at probably $300 at the starting point.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

Good luck finding an MX 24 Trail right now. 2017 stock is eaten up, and when I wrote Orbea to find out about 2018 timing, they said mid-October at the earliest.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

xprmntl said:


> Good luck finding an MX 24 Trail right now. 2017 stock is eaten up, and when I wrote Orbea to find out about 2018 timing, they said mid-October at the earliest.


That's not that far off, bub.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

jochribs said:


> That's not that far off, bub.


Unless your daughter's birthday is this month.

Jenson is taking preorders--2 of 6 bikes allocated, gone. Make that 3 of 6...


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

xprmntl said:


> Unless your daughter's birthday is this month.


Yeah, I wouldn't know. I kinda just get stuff on a constant basis for my guy. Christmas and b-day just sorta blend into all of that.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

All of what?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

All of just buying stuff for my guy 'whenever'...


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