# Thermoplastics?



## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Back in the mid nineties there was quite a bit of buzz around thermoplastics since they were almost as light as carbon fiber, and were recyclable. It seemed like a really promising material, and several companies even made frames out of like, like Schwinn's Project Underground thermoplastic frame. But then interest just seemed to fall off. Can someone explain why, and if there's anyone still working with the stuff?


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## shovelon (Mar 16, 2006)

K2 dabbled in thermoplastics working with Easton. I spoke with a K2 engineer that eventually went to work for Easton, and he told me that K2 lost money on every frameset they produced, as opposed to every Taiwan alum frameset they sourced out.









Although carbon thermoplastics may have had a future, ecomomics seemed to a factor.

Fascinating technology though. Easton was really the driving force behind carbon thermoplastics.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Well easton was A force, but Kastan Rockets was the driving force that got the ball rolling when they partnered with Yeti. GT had thermoplastic STS frames, and there was talk of thermoplastic hanglebars and so on. But really its just like any new frame material.... build enough of something and the cost comes down. When carbon frames first came out, they were a couple thousand each, MINIMUM. Now you can get them for less than $300.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

DeeEight said:


> But really its just like any new frame material.... build enough of something and the cost comes down. When carbon frames first came out, they were a couple thousand each, MINIMUM. Now you can get them for less than $300.


It really is amazing how much the price dropped.


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## robinmiller (May 31, 2005)

Hm. I had always assumed that thermoplastic was just a marketing name for a slightly different carbon fiber reinforced plastic manufacturing process, like using a different type of resin that worked with heat, rather than letting solvents evaporate.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

robinmiller said:


> Hm. I had always assumed that thermoplastic was just a marketing name for a slightly different carbon fiber reinforced plastic manufacturing process, like using a different type of resin that worked with heat, rather than letting solvents evaporate.


That was how I remembered it, not so much a marketing thing though. It is a real distinction. With the drawback that it wasn't as stiff as the resin based composites per weight. With the benefit that due to plasticity, it wasn't likely to form a crack from an impact.

Doesn't LP composites use thermoplastic. Their bars have great flex.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

I think the other kind is thermoset, right?


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

GT's Thremoplastic frames were famous for their suckitude.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

richieb said:


> GT's Thremoplastic frames were famous for their suckitude.


That's T-H-E-R-M-O-P-L-A-S-T-I-C and coming from you suckitude would be a positive comment


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Don't forget Mantis:


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## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

*or this..*

from the other end of the spectrum...a Ross

The Raleigh was listed as a Carbon Composite I believe.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> That's T-H-E-R-M-O-P-L-A-S-T-I-C and coming from you suckitude would be a positive comment


oh crap - I am officially the first person to have a typo in the history of the Internet! 

And, for the record, those STS frames were panned by every magazine, and even received a "worst bike of all time" award from one of them.

I commend your near-obsessive brand loyalty, but I bet even Hans Rey would say those bikes sucked donkey nuts.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have never ridden a thermoplastic frame, but have 2 set of these Scott AT-2 LF-X bars which I have been riding for years and really like. Very comfortable amount of flex and damping. Recently switched to an aluminum bar and it beat me to death, so had to go back.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^yep I have a scott thermoplastic bar, its great, done many a year... at the time it was the lightest bar or soemthing...i think i have the lf1 flat bar...

I remember that at the carins world nico didn't use the STS DH as the tubes were to fat and couldn't get the boxxers to turn as much (could be fact thasts just how i remember it), but king did uses the STS...


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Specialized had a thermo handlebar too in the early 90's. Had a reddish tint to it. They really sucked.

That profloater has a bb30 looking bb. Swansong.

-Schmitty-


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Yes Thermoplastic and Thermosetting.

These are two different means of systems to embed the fibres.

Thermoset is a two part mix, like epoxy. Thermoplastic is where the resin is heated, shaped and cooled.

Thermoplastics are still used, it just seems though that thermoset prepregs have stolen the thunder lately.

PK


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## Perpetrator (Jul 8, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> I have never ridden a thermoplastic frame, but have 2 set of these Scott AT-2 LF-X bars which I have been riding for years and really like. Very comfortable amount of flex and *dampening*.


So, they moisten you while you ride? Interesting. That would be sweet in the intense summer heat!


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Perpetrator said:


> So, they moisten you while you ride? Interesting. That would be sweet in the intense summer heat!


This is the model without the little water mist units, so edited the post. Thx


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

richieb said:


> And, for the record, those STS frames were panned by every magazine, and even received a "worst bike of all time" award from one of them.
> 
> I commend your near-obsessive brand loyalty, but I bet even Hans Rey would say those bikes sucked donkey nuts.


It won the "worst bike" award because it cost more than the aluminum version, and weighed more too.

Beyond the cost/weight "gain" where there any real issues with the bike?


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## Perpetrator (Jul 8, 2007)

sgltrak said:


> This is the model without the little water mist units, so edited the post. Thx


Dang! I was gonna rush out and see if I could find a NOS one.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

I admit, I *still* have a thing for the STS, and won't hesitate to buy one if I can find one for a good price.


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## glitz (Jan 27, 2010)

There was also the LOBO, and STS-iDrives. The i-drives in carbon really got panned. This was one of the reasons GT went out of business. They put in huge money into this program, and the first few frames ALL had to be replaced because they were defective.

I remember riding with a guy that had a Lobo and I still think he has it. It had a covered up hole in the downtube and the cover dislodged, exposing the hollow interior. Kind of cool. Despite how dumb they were, it was a needed step in carbon development. What GT did was bring a lot of understanding to the table about what was and wasn't needed to make a carbon bike. I'm sure those developers are now dispersed througout the bike industry and all over the world in others.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

glitz said:


> This was one of the reasons GT went out of business.


Not really. The reason they went out of business was they were a 80 million dollar millstone around Schwinn's neck, and it finally broke Schwinn.


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Beyond the cost/weight "gain" where there any real issues with the bike?


yup, a lot of them broke. I saw 2 break in 1 race once, both at the headtube.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

bad mechanic said:


> Not really. The reason they went out of business was they were a 80 million dollar millstone around Schwinn's neck, and it finally broke Schwinn.


Schwinn was broke at the end of the family owned era, when Zell/Chilmark and Questor Partners both acquired it and ran it. It was all investor ego hoping to revive a once dominant market name.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

gm1230126 said:


> Schwinn was broke at the end of the family owned era, when Zell/Chilmark and Questor Partners both acquired it and ran it. It was all investor ego hoping to revive a once dominant market name.


...what?


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## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

LoL. I was offered the Yeti Thermoplastic for 3500 dollars. Said no because I thought it was too expensive back in 1999 (but I had the money).


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## harzkristall (Jul 6, 2006)

*About That Yeti Thermoplast*

Found This On My Hard Disc...
...unfortunately Not In My Shack.


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## kikaha (Feb 11, 2007)

i love that bike ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

https://fotos.mtb-news.de/search/index?q=gt+sts


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

bad mechanic said:


> Not really. The reason they went out of business was they were a 80 million dollar millstone around Schwinn's neck, and it finally broke Schwinn.


Think you'd better check facts.


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