# King Hubs vs Oynx Racing Hubs



## thatSAMazing (Aug 6, 2014)

Title says it all. This is off the back of another thread I started where I was looking for quite high engagement hub. When someone brought these up, they stood out as the perfect choice. Infinite Engagement, completely silent, and no drag. Am just curious why I never hear about them, but I always hear about the Kings, when these seem to outdo the Kings in these aspects. Do the Kings have anything going for them by comparison? Is there a reason these hubs are never mentioned? Any weaknesses?


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

Onyx seem to be BMX hubs. Maybe that's why.


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## thatSAMazing (Aug 6, 2014)

They've got MTB hubs as well with the same characteristics and practically no drag.


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

Got a link? I could only find the pro and ultra bmx.


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## thatSAMazing (Aug 6, 2014)

Site is difficult to navigate and am messaging from my iPhone unfortunately. The below should help though

IB14: Onyx Racing Products Hubs Offer Instant, Infinite Engagement w/ Low Drag for Road, BMX, MTB & More


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Dumb thread is dumb.

You hear about King all the time because they've been around forever and they're very good. Onyx has a web site comprised of Facebook posts and doesn't even show their MTB hubs. What do you expect?


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## shopcat_cycles (Dec 28, 2007)

Would like to see the guts outside of the hubshell. If they prove to be durable, they should catch on. Like 92 says, King has been around a long time and their proprietary designs has proven to be incredibly durable. Heck, I have a set of Kings that was built in '05 w/ all the original parts. If you keep them serviced, they'll last forever.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Onyx hubs could be the best on the planet, ceramic bearings are on all the hubs. Very low drag and spin forever, instant engagement and totally quiet. Each is made to customer request with custom ano, or paint. I will getting a pair soon for my new Pivot 429sl 29er. The company spent over 1 million to develop the drive system. Now making center lock for rotors. I think the rear hub is 318g, not as light as DT Swiss but still not bad!! 
They are in the BMX world, now transitioning into MTB and road. The word will spread.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> Onyx hubs could be the best on the planet, ceramic bearings are on all the hubs.


Q: Please explain why ceramic bearings are needed in a bicycling application?

A: There is no reason. But it sure does sound cool.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I totally agree with you on the bearings, Onyx only uses what they feel is the best. The more you dig into this Company the more you will find the quality of their products. I will ask them about the bearings!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The had a shop weigh a rear Onyx mtb 12x142 with 10 speed driver, the weight was way higher at 490g that's a lot of weight. They are also a hybrid ceramic bearing, steel races and ceramic balls. Chris King at 385g sounds light. Stealth is another hub that is totally silent with infinite engagement but they also are about the same weight as Onyx. The lowest drag out of the box is Onyx. That was confirmed from a shop that sells all three.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Still like Profile Elite hubs better, lighter and stronger with 6 pawl.


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

Early adopters typically get to do the R&D for products like these in today's world. I prefer riding and smashing on stuff when I want to instead of waiting for the UPS truck with a  on. Chris King are A.Light B. Bombproof C. Aurally Pleasing D. Pretty damned light and E. Beautiful. Just sayin'.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I called Onyx on Friday to have a chat about fat bike hubs. It appears to be a great application for fat bikes, as the design appears to be well sealed from the elements, and the only grease required may be to the bearings. 

The grease in the drive mech was quoted to be "for life, unless the hub is submerged for long periods of time". I like the sound of that, and it might be worth the extra cash not not have to worry. "We use lots of O-rings to help seal everything up tight, and protect from the elements", which sounds good to me! 

But early adopters usually pay to play, and for a brand new technology, $474 is a little steep for me right now. I just wish CK made a 197TA rear hub.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Found out some more info from one of Onyx engineers about Front and rear MTB hubs.
Rear 12x142-center lock with XD driver 468.5g. Front 15mm x100 centerlock 214.7.
Definitely not light, 5 year warr. with trade up program included. He also said there's a reason for the weight. Over built hub will last many many years, steel Sprag drive and very low drag set the apart from all other hubs. Once you feel the hub in your hand than on the bike the intestment shows it worth.
They also make all Lefty hubs, Fat hubs and road hubs. The yellow color in picts is power coat. That's the color I'm going with !! I know the info come from Onyx, the weight is the hardest thing I'm struggling with.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Seeing as how I am not in the market for a new rear hub, it's between I9 and Onyx. 

hmmmmmm


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Project 321 was the I was going to go with, I have now I9 Torch, Dt Swiss 240, Hadley hubs and Project 321 lefty hub. 240 the lightest of bunch. I recommend checking Project 321 hub over the I9 hub, same drive system only with better bearing design and endcaps. The anodizing on Project 321 is also much better than I9 in my opinion!!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Found out some more info from one of Onyx engineers about Front and rear MTB hubs.
> Rear 12x142-center lock with XD driver 468.5g. Front 15mm x100 centerlock 214.7.
> Definitely not light, 5 year warr. with trade up program included. He also said there's a reason for the weight. Over built hub will last many many years, steel Sprag drive and very low drag set the apart from all other hubs. Once you feel the hub in your hand than on the bike the intestment shows it worth.
> They also make all Lefty hubs, Fat hubs and road hubs. The yellow color in picts is power coat. That's the color I'm going with !! I know the info come from Onyx, the weight is the hardest thing I'm struggling with.


Did you get your build up yet?

I should have a set here this week to play with


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Cool! Let us know how you like them and some picts. I'm still waiting for my new Pivot 429sl frame, I'm getting the green graphics on the bike so waiting to get the frame for proper color combo with hubs. I think the antifreeze color hub would be cool !!

What rims are you going with?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Cool! Let us know how you like them and some picts. I'm still waiting for my new Pivot 429sl frame, I'm getting the green graphics on the bike so waiting to get the frame for proper color combo with hubs. I think the antifreeze color hub would be cool !!
> 
> What rims are you going with?


I am lucky enough to have quite a few choices laying around. Either WTB KOMs, Atomik Carbon Mod Hooked, WTB i25 or Velocity Blunt SS. Have not decided yet.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> Project 321 was the I was going to go with, I have now I9 Torch, Dt Swiss 240, Hadley hubs and Project 321 lefty hub. 240 the lightest of bunch. I recommend checking Project 321 hub over the I9 hub, same drive system only with better bearing design and endcaps. The anodizing on Project 321 is also much better than I9 in my opinion!!


Interesting stuff from Project 321. Same as I9, but uses Angular Contact Bearings, just like Chris King. For the price though...why not just go CK?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I really like the quality of Chris King and I know their bearings are the best in the business. One of the things I'm looking for is center lock, Onyx has it Chris King not!! Another thing is custom color of Onyx, they will do any color I want and have a trade up program for any changes I make in the future. I know the Onyx rear hubs are 100g more than CK so trying to decide on the best 29er carbon rim that's at least 35mm wide but still light and stiff.
May go with NOX rims, I wish Light Bicycles would come out with 35mm rims with the new U shape profile as their 38mm rims. The rotational weight is what I can feel when going fast up hills. I will probably go with Sapim Lazer over the CX Ray to save some money. I have the Lazers on my Hadley/LB 30mm carbon wheelset and holding up great.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

*Holy Bright!*

Here are a couple pics of the hubs. The color is "Tri-Helix" or glowing yellow. Pics dont' do justice to the colors of the hubs. When I took them outside, they changed color and were even more brilliant.

Rims should be here this week. Decided to test out some Blunt SS. 425 gram 29er rim


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

They are incredible!! Are they Ano or powder?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The weight of hubs, probably a bit more with the 6 bolt? Can you post weights?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

My 29er Light Bicycles carbon rims only weigh 401g each, 30mm external and will be much stiffer than the Blunts and only 140 bucks extra for the pair. Just my opinion. Carbon all the way for mtb rims. I will never go back to alloy !!


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## G Mont (Jan 30, 2015)

These hubs are incredible. I have ridden these hubs now for 3 months in various conditions. I have set for my fat bike and have logged over 500 miles this winter in below 0 temps with high winds and soft slushy snow and the hubs have continued to work amazing. The bearings that Onyx uses are super smooth and the engagement of the freehub is instant. I have had several sets of King hubs before I got these hubs and Kings have significant more drag. These hubs are really the best of both worlds. The hubs are super smooth with non existent drag and incredibly durable. The seals that they have put on the hubs have been fantastic at keeping the elements out so that the bearings continue to roll uber smooth. Chris King hubs and Onyx hubs aren't even on the same playing field. Get a set of Onyx hubs and you will notice the difference with the first pedal stroke.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> They are incredible!! Are they Ano or powder?


It's a translucent powder coat. Pretty incredible.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I can't do FB from work. How much for a hub set, ball park, 150/177?


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

G Mont said:


> These hubs are incredible. I have ridden these hubs now for 3 months in various conditions. I have set for my fat bike and have logged over 500 miles this winter in below 0 temps with high winds and soft slushy snow and the hubs have continued to work amazing. The bearings that Onyx uses are super smooth and the engagement of the freehub is instant. I have had several sets of King hubs before I got these hubs and Kings have significant more drag. These hubs are really the best of both worlds. The hubs are super smooth with non existent drag and incredibly durable. The seals that they have put on the hubs have been fantastic at keeping the elements out so that the bearings continue to roll uber smooth. Chris King hubs and Onyx hubs aren't even on the same playing field. Get a set of Onyx hubs and you will notice the difference with the first pedal stroke.


Chris King not on the same playing field? I don't know man, the hubs look really nice but you're talking revolution and I would think at best they would be evolution if they were little bit lighter than Chris King. don't get me wrong, they seem very nice but am I correct that they are both more expensive and heavier than Chris King?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> I can't do FB from work. How much for a hub set, ball park, 150/177?


You are looking at $630 give or take


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Has anyone reported a failure?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Has anyone reported a failure?


I don't think anyone has reported anything much on them yet. They are really new to the mtbike scene. They do sound pretty cool though.

As for G Mont claiming they are on a totally different field...idk. I don't feel as if my Kings have excessive drag at all. Maybe he has the bearings loaded too tight?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It sounds like a reworkd DT, heavier, but better engagement. 

100gm, four ounces, not a big deal on a tandem, no failure also means time saved in repairs and walking 

The rear hub is the single weak like in my fat tandem build, so I am already going into my build with the expectation that I will blow a hub in time.

Best case scenario, this hub is the real deal, worse case scenario its not any worse than my other choices.

I like the free upgrade and warranty, as long as their customer service ends up being reliable.

Edit: I found the website, it didn't fully load, but I got enough to send a request and get a contact number.

I wonder how fast they can get them done..


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Made contact, hopefully will get more info tomorrow.

Anyone know how Onyx is different from Precision?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Made contact, hopefully will get more info tomorrow.
> 
> Anyone know how Onyx is different from Precision?


Precision uses a roller clutch and Onyx uses a Sprag clutch. While both provide instant engagement, the roller clutch is constantly rolling and dragging. This means more resistance. The Sprag clutch had nearly no drag while still engaging instantly.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

dustyduke22 said:


> Precision uses a roller clutch and Onyx uses a Sprag clutch. While both provide instant engagement, the roller clutch is constantly rolling and dragging. This means more resistance. The Sprag clutch had nearly no drag while still engaging instantly.


Thanks, I did a little research and was able to see the difference between the two.

The most common applications for these clutches outside of industrial uses is for drag racing transmissions. Apparently they are both quite strong, but the sprag clutch is stronger and more reliable as long as it's done well; ie tight tolerances.

I'm waiting for a call back from Onyx...I'll probably go with their hubs unless I can find a reason not to. Precision is an option, my shop guy has a friend their, but they may not be making a wide hub.

If we get the Onyx and ride it on the tandem without failure, that'll bw about the biggest test a hub can survive.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

*Sneak Peak*

Here is my rear wheel I started building last night. Had too many interruptions to get it finished.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Man they do kind of change colors, so cool a paint that looks like ano. Do they really spin super free with out drag and no sound?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Man they do kind of change colors, so cool a paint that looks like ano. Do they really spin super free with out drag and no sound?


Yessir, they sure do. The only sound you can really hear is the bearings spinning. Its also nice having the Ceramic bearings included in the price. They end up being about $40 or $50 cheaper than a King hub with the XD driver and standard stainless bearings.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

They were a lot less than I expected, I can't cite a price because my LBS is working it for me, but suffice to say that it was on par with what you'd expect to pay for CK.

I got mine in red anodized 

Review and pics to follow... only one month until vacation! Sedona, Moab, and St George!!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

*Wow*

Here are a few shots of the hubs I got yesterday. I had planned on getting out to get a nice ride, but it snowed about 6-8 inches  After the snow stopped, I just cruised around the neighborhood.

Its kind of strange not to ever fell any type of lag in the hub. I love the quiet stealth coasting. Should be fun for seeing wildlife out on the trail.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The color is Anti-Freeze right? They are stunning, I just made my mind up that's the color I'm getting. What rims did you go with again?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> The color is Anti-Freeze right? They are stunning, I just made my mind up that's the color I'm getting. What rims did you go with again?


On the invoice it was Tri Helix. I used Velocity Blunt SS to give then a shot. A 425 gram 29er rim that is 30mm external and 26mm internal. Pretty awesome!


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

dgw7000 said:


> The color is Anti-Freeze right? They are stunning, I just made my mind up that's the color I'm getting. What rims did you go with again?


That color looks like a pretty good match to the DVO Emerald for me DH bike!  :thumbsup:


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

My Onyx Tri Helix with turquoise end caps are on the way.!! New Pivot 429sl with green graphics on the way!

Dustyduke22, any quick riding impressions of the hubs, how does the engagement feel and does the bike coast faster. Can you feel the less drag?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> My Onyx Tri Helix with turquoise end caps are on the way.!! New Pivot 429sl with green graphics on the way!
> 
> Dustyduke22, any quick riding impressions of the hubs, how does the engagement feel and does the bike coast faster. Can you feel the less drag?


The drag (or lack thereof) is very apparent. The wheels just keep spinning.....

Its feels awesome having absolutely no lag when you go to pedal. I am coming of a set of i9's which have a very high POE (120), and you can feel the difference. Its also a pleasant experience to be coasting and not hear anything but the tires in the dirt and the wind.

I will be heading out tonight after work to get some more time on them.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Ok the Tri-helix is not the color, it's the cut out of front hub. Anti freeze or glowing yellow is the color you have and I will soon have. I know you said it was on your work order, Onyx is working on that glitch. Anyway how are you liking the hubs?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Ok the Tri-helix is not the color, it's the cut out of front hub. Anti freeze or glowing yellow is the color you have and I will soon have. I know you said it was on your work order, Onyx is working on that glitch. Anyway how are you liking the hubs?


Tri-Helix sounds so much cooler though!!

Thanks man.

Hubs are sweet. Its different not hearing the click-clack of the hubs on the trail. I have only had one really good ride on them, so I don't have a lot of time on them. Luckily, the snow is melting pretty quick


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## AZ Native (Jan 12, 2015)

dgw7000 said:


> I really like the quality of Chris King and I know their bearings are the best in the business. One of the things I'm looking for is center lock, Onyx has it Chris King not!! Another thing is custom color of Onyx, they will do any color I want and have a trade up program for any changes I make in the future. I know the Onyx rear hubs are 100g more than CK so trying to decide on the best 29er carbon rim that's at least 35mm wide but still light and stiff.
> May go with NOX rims, I wish Light Bicycles would come out with 35mm rims with the new U shape profile as their 38mm rims. The rotational weight is what I can feel when going fast up hills. I will probably go with Sapim Lazer over the CX Ray to save some money. I have the Lazers on my Hadley/LB 30mm carbon wheelset and holding up great.


Check out DERBY Rims for some wide carbons.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

dustyduke22 said:


> Tri-Helix sounds so much cooler though!!
> 
> Thanks man.
> 
> Hubs are sweet. Its different not hearing the click-clack of the hubs on the trail. I have only had one really good ride on them, so I don't have a lot of time on them. Luckily, the snow is melting pretty quick


do you have any pics of the guts of the hub?? I want to see the mechanism.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

car bone said:


> do you have any pics of the guts of the hub?? I want to see the mechanism.


I have not taken it apart, but here is a really good video animation of how it works


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Check this out!! I should have mine next week!!


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

BTW I had a look at their site and I can only find bmx hubs!! wtf. where do you buy the mtb hubs and what do they cost?

I found some pics.




























https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...nyx-Racing-hubs-fat-bike-road-bmx-color-5.jpg

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...nyx-Racing-hubs-fat-bike-road-bmx-color-3.jpg

https://brimages.bikeboardmedia.net...nyx-Racing-hubs-fat-bike-road-bmx-color-2.jpg


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Check this out!! I should have mine next week!!


Where did those shots come from? Thats pretty cool


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

car bone said:


> ...where do you buy the mtb hubs and what do they cost?...


The price list https://www.dropbox.com/s/cukva6gr795bifb/Onyx Price Sheet.xlsx?dl=0
Some things like anodizing are additional cost. Not listed on the price list are center lock compatible hubs, which are available. For those considering the lightweight option, cyclocross hubs are 1.5 sprags, which may not be the best choice for power mashers and steep climbers.

Phone numbers:
320-310-7887
800-328-8896

Polished below. FYI, the non-XD freehub is 11 speed, spacer required for 10 speed cassette.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Built these wheels over the weekend for our Ventana Jefe tandem:

WTB Scraper 45mm ID
DT DB Spokes
Stans taper and Universal Valves
Vee Rubber Trax Fatty 27.5 x 3.25
Onyx Hubs 150 x 15 TA/177 x 12 TA

Went up first time tubeless with a compressor, valve core removed, two scoops sealant, no leaks!

Tires measure a smidge over 3" at 20psi.

Apologies for the picture formatting, but I'm having computer issues...

View attachment 975266

View attachment 975267

View attachment 975268


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Built these wheels over the weekend for our Ventana Jefe tandem:
> 
> WTB Scraper 45mm ID
> DT DB Spokes
> ...


Its too bad that your cassette and rotor have to cover up that awesome anodizing! Great looking build btw.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's some wild ano!! Look's nice-looks like yours came in way before mine, I'm still waiting. The centerlock may have something to do with it.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

This is new Pivot that was just built up, the Onyx hubs will go this bike and the wheels that you see will going my single speed. This Pivot 429sl large, stealth red is a great bike!! Also recommend Absolute Black Oval ring supper smooth!! Same with Sram Guide brakes. Love them! I'm still trying to decide on rims 30mm or 35mm?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Still waiting for my hubs, now I'm beginning to worry !!


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

dgw7000 said:


> Still waiting for my hubs, now I'm beginning to worry !!


I got mine super fast, but I ordered basic red ano and I went with 6-bolt since centerlock wasn't quite in stock yet and I didn't have much of a preference. They will be worth the wait. I am impressed with mine, although I haven't got to ride them yet. They feel really solid and smooth.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Still waiting for my hubs, now I'm beginning to worry !!


Just call Alan at Onyx if you want to know the status.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

They are on the way!! Anyone have some real time on hubs yet? Thanks!!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> They are on the way!! Anyone have some real time on hubs yet? Thanks!!


I have had mine for a couple weeks now. Incredibly smooth. Its kind of eerie how quite everything is on the trail. With it being spring break, I threw on my i9's to make sure people could hear me coming down the trail.

Its a very different feeling not having any lag when you start to pedal. It takes some getting used to, but I think you will be very pleased with how smooth and nice they are


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

They came in!! Rear at 442g and front at 218g, so rear hub is about 104g more than Chris King rear and just a few grams more than CK front hub.

When you crank back on the xd driver engagement is instant with no sound and no drag, the bearings spin like silk. Impressive !!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> They came in!! Rear at 442g and front at 218g, so rear hub is about 104g more than Chris King rear and just a few grams more than CK front hub.
> 
> When you crank back on the xd driver engagement is instant with no sound and no drag, the bearings spin like silk. Impressive !!


Something to consider is that the posted King weights are with an alloy freehub. Once you throw the steel freehub on there, the weight difference becomes much less.

Which rims did you end up deciding on? I am about to rebuild mine on some carbons


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's a great point!! I now may build up some 650b hoops. I will demo a new Pivot Mach4 for all of next week and if I love it I will put the Onyx on the Mach 4 with LB 38mm carbon rims. I had a chance to see last night in person the Nextie 35mm 650b rims, they were 414g and I thought they looked too fragile these were the xc build up. He also had the Derby 35mm 29er rims they were impressive I loved the profile and quality just looked better. So I think its either Derby on LB new U shaped 38mm hoops.

By the way this is about the 104g. 3 Reese's peanut butter eggs. Going send a Pict not working now!!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

dustyduke22 said:


> Something to consider is that the posted King weights are with an alloy freehub. Once you throw the steel freehub on there, the weight difference becomes much less.
> 
> Which rims did you end up deciding on? I am about to rebuild mine on some carbons


How about you have you decided which rim? I think I'm going LB 38mm.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> How about you have you decided which rim? I think I'm going LB 38mm.


I went with the Atomik Carbon Mod-Hooked Enduro rim. I really like the 4.5mm bead width. I am going to use these wheels for some hard gnarly trail use, so that extra bead width will help keep the wheel stiff and less prone to impact damage.

I just laced them up last night, but wont get to tension them up till this coming weekend. Headed out to Texas for a business trip. I am thinking of doing the green Atomik decals on the rim as well. Should be a pretty bright wheelset!

Will post pics once I get it all done.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

dustyduke22 said:


> I went with the Atomik Carbon Mod-Hooked Enduro rim. I really like the 4.5mm bead width. I am going to use these wheels for some hard gnarly trail use, so that extra bead width will help keep the wheel stiff and less prone to impact damage.
> 
> I just laced them up last night, but wont get to tension them up till this coming weekend. Headed out to Texas for a business trip. I am thinking of doing the green Atomik decals on the rim as well. Should be a pretty bright wheelset!
> 
> Will post pics once I get it all done.


They look nice I can't wait to see them, should be way stiffer than the Alloy rims prior.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

*Ta da!*

Hey Guys,

As promised, here is my finished Onyx build. Paired them up with Atomik Carbon Mod/Hooked Enduro rim. Mounted up some DHR II's with my floor pump and got them on the bike last night. Today will be the maiden voyage with the new wheels. To say they turned out sweet would be an understatement!!

Pretty stoked on the look and love the instant engagement. To have that paired with a carbon rim will be the bees knees


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

They look awesome, really sets your bike off. Carbon rims are so easy to lace up and true, what do the rims go for price wise? I set my hubs back to get black end caps, they may go on a new Pivot Mach 4 650b, and not my 429sl.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> They look awesome, really sets your bike off. Carbon rims are so easy to lace up and true, what do the rims go for price wise? I set my hubs back to get black end caps, they may go on a new Pivot Mach 4 650b, and not my 429sl.


Atomiks are $435 ea. They come in a bunch of colors if you are looking to match your bike or accent color.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

You should get a custom KONA sticker in green, purple, yellow, and white. Each letter being a different color.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

jonshonda said:


> You should get a custom KONA sticker in green, purple, yellow, and white. Each letter being a different color.


I just emailed them to see if that was a possibility. Great idea


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That is a great idea, but I would do green to match rims!!


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## til027 (Feb 14, 2015)

I'm a little torn between these and CK hubs, Price difference is about $100 in favor of the kings, although if I get a centerlock hub that will save me $100 from having to buy new rotors...

They'll be laced up to 38mm LB rims. And used in a lot of hard downhill riding as well as up.

Whats the general consensus for those that have owned both on the differences? Is it worth sacrificing the proven super durability of the CK's? For the heavier, new, unproven product?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^I don't think you will find anyone other than the one user in this thread who has used both.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

til027 said:


> I'm a little torn between these and CK hubs, Price difference is about $100 in favor of the kings, although if I get a centerlock hub that will save me $100 from having to buy new rotors...
> 
> They'll be laced up to 38mm LB rims. And used in a lot of hard downhill riding as well as up.
> 
> Whats the general consensus for those that have owned both on the differences? Is it worth sacrificing the proven super durability of the CK's? For the heavier, new, unproven product?


I think calling these unproven is pretty far from the truth. They are fairly new to MTB, but their BMX roots go back for some time.

As far as weight, if you get a king with the stainless freehub, weights are very close

And I am not sure where you are seeing that Kings are $100 cheaper. MSRP on both are pretty dang close and Onyx comes with ceramic bearings, which is a hefty upcharge on the Kings.

I have been very happy with mine so far. Give them a try, you can't go wrong with a US made high quality hub


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## til027 (Feb 14, 2015)

dustyduke22 said:


> I think calling these unproven is pretty far from the truth. They are fairly new to MTB, but their BMX roots go back for some time.
> 
> As far as weight, if you get a king with the stainless freehub, weights are very close
> 
> ...


The MTB hubs are unproven for the average joe, there are very limited reviews available and information is hard to come by so it's a bit of a risk to spend $650 but yes they do seem to be a favorite in the bmx world.

The MSRP is about the same but I can get the kings for $100 discount at various online stores.

I like the idea of these so I think I'll give them a try, just got to figure out which color to go with my fluro orange process 153.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

til027 said:


> The MTB hubs are unproven for the average joe, there are very limited reviews available and information is hard to come by so it's a bit of a risk to spend $650 but yes they do seem to be a favorite in the bmx world.
> 
> The MSRP is about the same but I can get the kings for $100 discount at various online stores.
> 
> I like the idea of these so I think I'll give them a try, just got to figure out which color to go with my fluro orange process 153.


I just went through the same decision process as you, ultimately I also went with the Onyx hubs. I have long admired King hubs, have ridden them, can't remember the last ride at least one other person wasn't riding them, have serviced them, always wanted a set but never quite got around to pulling the trigger. I was ready this time, but the ones I wanted were out of stock when I went to purchase them, and that gave me some extra time to think and research my options. The unique features of the Onyx hubs, and a long conversation with Jim at Onyx, convinced me to change my mind and order a set. I haven't laced them up yet, I hope to this week, but my impressions of them out of the box are very good. They feel super smooth and tight, and the engagement is amazing. The bearings spin very well for new hubs with zero play. The weight is a bit of a shock the first time you pick up the rear hub, for the wheelset they are a full 160g heavier than Kings with the SS hubshell. But I can easily live with that if they live up to what I expect from them. The silence will be cool, the engagement also very cool, and maybe the thing I will value the most is a freehub that is bulletproof.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I think the biggest thing that's not proven is how well the Hybrid Ceramic Bearing will hold up is extreme MTB conitions. How well the seals do in preventing water and mud from entering hub. MTB is totally different than BMX, I guess we will find out!! I was willing to take the leap and go for it. When you hold the Onyx hub in your hand and play you know you have something special. My local shop now sells Onyx and has sold Chris King for many years, it won't be long before Onyx Hubs start showing up on my local trails. The hubs are made in USA, the Bearings and Sprags are made in Germany.


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## til027 (Feb 14, 2015)

Yea I think I'll give them a shot. Any recommendations on the colors? I've noticed most people here have gone for the powdered antifreeze.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Onyx offers an amazing variety of finishes, although I just went with basic red ano. My hubs look sweet, but in plain ano they do not quite have that amazingly perfect smoothness of King hubs if you look at them side by side, but then no other hub does. But they are very nice and mechanically feel better than the Kings, which is high praise. They will also custom laser etch the hubs for you if you are so inclined. I imagine if these work out like I expect, it won't be my last set, maybe I will get something more radical looking next time.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I had a chance to compare side-by-side with CK and Onyx. Holding both looking at the finish. Chris King wins hands down for its polish and finish, but the smoothness of bearings and supper low drag+ engagement of Onyx over shines the King Bling. As VonF stated many options on color which is so personal.
Another thing that's so important is customer service and I can tell you Onyx has been great. When I received my hubs I decided I wanted black end caps instead of the red caps. Made a call and Jim said no problem, I sent them back and I think I will have them tomorrow. Now If I can only decide on what carbon rims to go with!!


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Nice Onyx hub on a tandem setup on page 5 of this thread, along with other interesting stuff.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> I think the biggest thing that's not proven is how well the Hybrid Ceramic Bearing will hold up is extreme MTB conitions. How well the seals do in preventing water and mud from entering hub. MTB is totally different than BMX, I guess we will find out!! I was willing to take the leap and go for it. When you hold the Onyx hub in your hand and play you know you have something special. My local shop now sells Onyx and has sold Chris King for many years, it won't be long before Onyx Hubs start showing up on my local trails. The hubs are made in USA, the Bearings and Sprags are made in Germany.


I gambled on my "unknown" true precisions also, but so far they have been awesome. I have over 10k km on mine now.

The tp's has a large exposed bearing next to the cassette, you can actually see the bearing from outside the hub. I just smeared really sticky grease on the seal of that bearing and its been good for 10k, and I ride every monday to friday no matter what, snow, rain, slush all of it.

If I were you I would weatherproof my hub like this too. Smear sticky grease where water can enter.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

The Profile is just plain a better hub, all others are just a revamped design of the original concept. The latest Elite version is by far the best hub out there, lightweight, strong and all American made. The driver options are nearly limitless including solid cro- mo, titanium and aluminum with 10 and 11 speed versions in shimano and SRAM drivers. I have used many different hubs including ONYX, Profile, King, Hadley, Hope, Oddyssey and many others. Profile has time and time again proved itself dependable and strong along with being the lightest hub on the market for severe use. All profile hubs are available in multiple axle types including aluminum solid with thread in bolts, titanium hollow, Cro- mo 14mm hollow and thread in 10mm stud. Front are available in 3/8, 20mm, 15mm and solid cro-mo. The standard ISO disk pattern is available or disk less.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Hey dusty,
Where did you find the specs for the hubs to size your spoke? Did you just measure or is there published specs from the MFG? Link to some specs if you found them online? Thanks.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Pau11y said:


> Link to some specs if you found them online? Thanks.


Onyx Racing Hub Specs

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu71c13lwhh2bvn/Hub Specs.xlsx?dl=0


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

They also are as loud as a buzz saw. The noise alone is a deal breaker for me personally. I prefer to be able to enjoy nature and scenery . It's hard to enjoy any wildlife if you have a chainsaw strapped to your bike.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Onyx Racing Hub Specs
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu71c13lwhh2bvn/Hub Specs.xlsx?dl=0


Thanks you much!


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

I am seriously considering a set of the Onyx hubs and shot off an email to inquire about details. I knew they had a 5 year warranty but what I was unaware of was the following as quoted from their reply:

"_All our hubs have a 5 year warranty and two distinct lifetime upgrade programs. First one is model to model, so if you want to change the color and/or hole pattern, simply send us your old hubs back and we'll change out the shell/accessories to whatever hole/color you'd like for 75% off the current retail price. The second one is if you decide to change models, you will receive 50% off the higher current retail price with the return of your old hubs. There may be custom color upcharges if you choose a non-stock color and any non-warranty or out of warranty parts are not included._"

The Onyx website doesn't reflect their current MTB offerings other than in specs and prices from a dropbox download.... I'm pretty sure this will change very soon


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Chromagftw said:


> I am seriously considering a set of the Onyx hubs and shot off an email to inquire about details. I knew they had a 5 year warranty but what I was unaware of was the following as quoted from their reply:
> 
> "_All our hubs have a 5 year warranty and two distinct lifetime upgrade programs. First one is model to model, so if you want to change the color and/or hole pattern, simply send us your old hubs back and we'll change out the shell/accessories to whatever hole/color you'd like for 75% off the current retail price. The second one is if you decide to change models, you will receive 50% off the higher current retail price with the return of your old hubs. There may be custom color upcharges if you choose a non-stock color and any non-warranty or out of warranty parts are not included._"
> 
> The Onyx website doesn't reflect their current MTB offerings other than in specs and prices from a dropbox download.... I'm pretty sure this will change very soon


They have some pretty nice perks for picking up their hubs. Like you mentioned, the upgrade and exchange program is something that most folks do not know yet. Can't wait till they get their website up and running with all of their current offerings. These guys are getting ready to get busy with business


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Onyx Racing Hub Specs
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/eu71c13lwhh2bvn/Hub Specs.xlsx?dl=0


Wow, approx 500g for any 6-bolt MTB hubs with full freehub (not XD) body. I understand there are lots of upsides to these hubs, but on the weight side these things are elephants.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Circlip said:


> Wow, approx 500g for any 6-bolt MTB hubs with full freehub (not XD) body. I understand there are lots of upsides to these hubs, but on the weight side these things are elephants.


That is very true. I think a lot of folks are caught up on the weight, and can't see past it. After using them for some time, the instant engagement and silent nature far outweighs the extra grams. I haven't weighed a King Hub with a stainless freehub, but I am sure its pretty close to the Onyx.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

dustyduke22 said:


> That is very true. I think a lot of folks are caught up on the weight, and can't see past it. After using them for some time, the instant engagement and silent nature far outweighs the extra grams. I haven't weighed a King Hub with a stainless freehub, but I am sure its pretty close to the Onyx.


Weight certainly isn't the only factor I have for hub decisions, but it is one factor among several. Spec weights are here for CK, which also have a note at the bottom to add 48g for stainless driveshell;

Hub Specs | Chris King Precision Components

By itself an extra ~100g for the Onyx isn't going to turn a light bike into a tank, but the whole concept of building a bike that has the requisite durability and functionality for the rider's needs while at the same time shedding weight where possible is a function of many small aggregate savings. For my application, which is XC and CX racing, I'm already going on the portly side with CK versus lighter options like DT or similar. The Onyx is simply too much of a boat anchor for me to stomach (YMMV) even though I am intrigued. Maybe for my next trail bike build sometime in the future? It's good to have different choices though for different needs, and these seem awfully cool.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Circlip said:


> Weight certainly isn't the only factor I have for hub decisions, but it is one factor among several. Spec weights are here for CK, which also have a note at the bottom to add 48g for stainless driveshell;
> 
> Hub Specs | Chris King Precision Components
> 
> By itself an extra ~100g for the Onyx isn't going to turn a light bike into a tank, but the whole concept of building a bike that has the requisite durability and functionality for the rider's needs while at the same time shedding weight where possible is a function of many small aggregate savings. For my application, which is XC and CX racing, I'm already going on the portly side with CK versus lighter options like DT or similar. The Onyx is simply too much of a boat anchor for me to stomach (YMMV) even though I am intrigued. Maybe for my next trail bike build sometime in the future? It's good to have different choices though for different needs, and these seem awfully cool.


It was a tough decision process for me too, it took a while to convince myself that the extra weight would be worth it. For years I had admired but not seriously considered the Stealth hubs for the same reason. My Onyx rear hub, 10mmx135mm, 6 bolt, standard freehub weighs 490g which I calculated is 117g more than a SS shell King hub. And you are right, Kings are not exactly light. But I still went with Onyx, once I realized that 4oz of extra bike ass ain't gonna matter a bit, but a bulletproof, silent, spooky instant engagement hub will be appreciated every ride. It was kind of an epiphany and I have yet to look back, although it is all still theoretical as I have yet to get these beautiful things actually on the bike. They are fun to play with though, I will miss that once the spokes finally arrive. Big caveat, I do not race and don't plan to. I don't know the math on how much the weight would hold you back versus the very minimal friction in these hubs, fortunately for me it doesn't matter but I would still be curious to know.

edit- I had a hit of deja-vu as I hit the post button, sure enough I posted a similar reply not that long ago in this thread, sorry for the clutter. I guess I really am excited about these hubs!


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> It was a tough decision process for me too, it took a while to convince myself that the extra weight would be worth it.


If the weight were even close I'd pull the trigger now, but with the difference and also any significant combination of users/time within the MTB community the way this will probably go down for me is;

1. Find other choice for current build project.

2. Couple of years once there's more real-world reports and experience, if still positive try out Onyx for trail bike build.

3. If I really dig the benefits of the Onyx hub on the trail bike, suck it up on the weight side and potentially use for race build also.

Company seems great, design/specs/function very cool, reports from early MTB adopters good, but then again it wouldn't be the first time a product arrives with these types of accolades and then settles into a more realistic orbit later, as still a very good product option, but more known about pros/cons over the long haul. We all saw that with I9 after the initial hype some years ago. Also great company, great products, but like every other has some ups and downs in real world experiences.

Onyx may be a bit different with history already on the BMX side, but as has been noted in other posts, we'll need some time to learn whether MTB use produces any different experience and results.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Circlip said:


> Company seems great, design/specs/function very cool, reports from early MTB adopters good, but then again it wouldn't be the first time a product arrives with these types of accolades and then settles into a more realistic orbit later, as still a very good product option, but more known about pros/cons over the long haul. We all saw that with I9 after the initial hype some years ago. Also great company, great products, but like every other has some ups and downs in real world experiences.
> 
> Onyx may be a bit different with history already on the BMX side, but as has been noted in other posts, we'll need some time to learn whether MTB use produces any different experience and results.


Yeah, fair enough. I must admit to being a wee bit uncomfortable feeling this excited about a component I have yet to actually ride. I hope to be still raving about them a year or 5 from now.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Yeah, fair enough. I must admit to being a wee bit uncomfortable feeling this excited about a component I have yet to actually ride. I hope to be still raving about them a year or 5 from now.


These are my Onyx hubs, 12x142mm XD driver rear and 100x15mm front hubs both with center lock. You can see actual weight, this is what I struggled with also "the weight". Will be building soon with NOX Teocalli 29er Carbon rims, Sapim CX-Ray spokes and Lilly nipples.


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

^^^Thanks for the share dgw7000^^^

Weight seems reasonable for what they are, in reference to the rear hub anyway.

Will be placing my order after I get back from work today in plain raw silver.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I have the 142x12 single speed dj hub on the way, will compare it to hadleys for rolling resistance freewheeling once it's built up. CK hubs have too much drag for my liking.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

kitejumping said:


> CK hubs have too much drag for my liking.


You guys......you guys are too much!! haha


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

kitejumping said:


> I have the 142x12 single speed dj hub on the way, will compare it to hadleys for rolling resistance freewheeling once it's built up. CK hubs have too much drag for my liking.


First off, the Onyx hubs will roll much better than the Hadley's. Heck, they spin smoother and longer than any hub I have every ridden or built.

As far as the Kings having 'too much drag', it has been my experience that if they are properly pre-loaded this won't be the case. My Kings spin every bit as long as my other hubsets (other than the Onxy).

Reasons for excessive drag on the Kings could come from the pre-load being tightened too much, hubs needing overhaul, or the rubber seal on the bearings not being seated properly under the snap rings.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

Yeah I don't have any kings, just checked them out on someone else's bike once, they had way less drag than hopes but I think the hadleys edged them out. All of the mentioned hubs are awesome but in this thread we are comparing the best of the best haha. Seems like Onyx is on another level.


Also only comparing rear hubs, I think rolling resistance differences between front hubs on hadley / hope / king / onyx is probably negligible.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Man just buy the best hub all around, lighter, stronger, more options and any color or spoke count. PROFILE ELITE! The axles come titanium, cro-mo, aluminum, in 3/8, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm or 14mm bolt on or bolt in and quick release. Anything else is just a compromise and comes with any 6pawl driver asembly in aluminum or TI. There is a reason why Pro riders swear by them, the are truly indestructible and never fail. And they are definetly the lightest high quality hub out there.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Anytime a hub makes noise that is resistance/drag, and in most cases more annoying noise = more drag. Hadley I have now are good hubs, easy to service but do have a lot of drag compared to the Onyx I just bought. The Onyx spin like silk, so smooth. Instant engagement and totally silent. It don't get any better !!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

bald dirt bag said:


> Man just buy the best hub all around, lighter, stronger, more options and any color or spoke count. PROFILE ELITE! The axles come titanium, cro-mo, aluminum, in 3/8, 10mm, 15mm, 20mm or 14mm bolt on or bolt in and quick release. Anything else is just a compromise and comes with any 6pawl driver asembly in aluminum or TI. There is a reason why Pro riders swear by them, the are truly indestructible and never fail. And they are definetly the lightest high quality hub out there.


Dude! This is the 4th time you have posted in this thread about Profiles being the 'best hub ever' This thread is not about the profile hubs, its about how the Onyx compares to the Kings. Just let it go!!


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

Recently I took shipment of my new rear hub. Here is my $0.02 worth...

*WHEEL BUILD* ONYX rear XD hub (raw silver), 142 x 12mm TA, Syntace W35 MX rim, DT Comp spokes, DT brass nipples, Conti TK 2.2", Non Tubeless

*WEIGHT*: I don't have a scale on hand but the Onyx 142 x 12mm rear hub with XD driver is comparable to my Hadley and King with identical setup (as far as palm guestimates go). If i were blindfolded and asked to say which was which based on weight alone, I would have reservations.

*HUB SHELL*: The flange thickness (Not diameter) are closer to Kings than the Hadley. When I rebuilt my King wheel set I noticed a lot more flange spoke hole circumference inconsistencies than my rebuilt Hadley wheel set. Whether this was due to actual hub shell material differences or flange thickness I can't say for certain. It threw me a little off the Kings and definitely had me shy away any coloured hub where visual scarring from rebuilding wheels using same hubs become very apparent. Not the case with my Hadleys.

*AESTHETICS*: Rather subjective this one. I will say overall finish quality, smoothness of edges etc. would go to the Kings, then Hadleys then Onyx. Having said that i do prefer raw industrial looks with etched logos over stencilled ones and would have to give Hadleys the nod in terms of personal preference.

*ENGAGEMENT*: Onyx obviously. Profile MTB are great hubs, very fast to engage but you honestly cannot compare the two. The Profiles are defo faster than both the Kings and Hadleys but are the noisiest of the entire lot with all them pawls and springs going about their business. I need to touch on instant engagement again - it IS noticeable. Very much so, on or off the trail. I'm not pushing Onyx as a brand here but as far as technology goes be it sprag clutch (Onyx) or roller clutch (True Precision) systems, it just plain works. I encourage any neigh sayers to at least try before they sigh.

*DURABILITY*: If problems develop, I will post back here. No news means good news. Onyx's warranty is comprehensive and comparable to any other industry leaders out there on the market... their upgrade/trade in program is also second to none (reminiscent of Baja Design Lights, when they still offered lumens for bike applications).

*OVERALL*: I am very happy thus far with my purchase - it has fulfilled the 2 criteria I longed for in a rear hub - complete utter silence and a non hesitant instant engagement system without play.

As an international customer I got whacked with custom duties and shipping which brought a single rear hub with my preferred setup to a whopping US$565, $120 more than the unit list price of $445. I've had a bad history with UPS as a shipping carrier even from when I resided in the US but I won't go into details and derail this thread.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Thanks for your thoughts Chromagftw. It's good to hear other folks having good experiences.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

I'm considering a 170mm fat bike hub purchase. On paper it has all the specs I want, durable (advertised not proven) engagement design, steel freehub, silent, and strong (advertised not proven). At a rider weight of 300 lbs, there is a lot of flexing going on in the rear hub, not sure that flexing lines up with the tight tolerances required to make the sprag work. I might just have to pony up and be a tester. Will post up if I pull the trigger.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I wasn't going to post a review until I've had the hubs for at least a year, but there are so few data points on these hubs that I decided to chime in early. Maybe some of the folks using these hubs in wet conditions can add some feedback?

Our hubs are 15 x 150/12 x 170, built on Scraper rims, running Trax fatty 3.25, on a Ventana Jefe Tandem. We chose these hubs because tandems are very hard on rear hubs due to issues with extreme flex and torque. 

So far we have taken ten hard rides on a tandem; these rides have included Moab slickrock, numerous hill climbs on single track, and lots of rolling single track, and a bunch of fast descents on ugly terrain. We (I) tend to pick terrain that most people would not consider tandem friendly. My wife just follows along without complain as long as I don't dump her 

The slickrock riding is really a great test for a tandem hub because there is no tire slippage; as a result the hub is taking all of the torque without relief or cushion. We rode most of the trails at Klondike including Baby Steps, UFO, etc... which had more drops that I choose to count, and the hub is as good as new.

To put our limited ride count on this hub in perspective, a single tandem ride equates to two or three as much abuse as you'd get from a solo bike because the torque of two riders is so much greater than a single rider, not to mention frame twisting. 

So far this hub is great, it is super smooth, super quiet, and engagement is nearly instantaneous. The only concern I have heard voices with this type of hub is contamination from wet conditions (Mikesee). Supposedly the seals are really good on the Onyx; I think some guys are using them for snow biking in AK. Again, this would be one of those issues that come out over time, so riders in wet areas should take this with a grain of salt.

I believe the Onyx hubs come with a five year warranty, but of course using a warranty for a failure takes your bike out of commission. I believe you can replace the core if the hub internals get damaged, but I don't know for sure.

I like the Onyx hub enough that I'll be using the same wheel set for my Mutz and when I build a wheel set for my Atlas; it will be on Onyx hubs.

The engagement is so good with Onyx that it really has to be experienced. I can only compare it to riding a Muni (unicycle), where the only slack in the engagement is from the chain. The rear hub also seems to have gotten fast, i.e. it spins forever compared to a ratchet hub.

I think the weight and price on an Onyx hub are commensurate with the what you get. If you want a less expensive hub or a lighter weight hub, then there are many to choose from including Profile. 

As far as I know, the only hub to comparable to the Onyx, is the True Precision Stealth made in San Diego, it has a slightly different mechanism, it was also developed in conjunction with BMX. The Stealth is not available in 170/190.

I am but the messenger, your experience may differ


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

4. Will the added four ounces of weight be offset by the increase in power and feel that comes from nearly instantaneous engagement? YES

Durability, weight, and cost considered, the engagement alone is worth it.

Weight will probably not come down much due to the design requirements of this hub type. An all steel mechanism and thick hub body are required.

The only downside is the lack of a track record. First adopters always pay the price.



Circlip said:


> If the weight were even close I'd pull the trigger now, but with the difference and also any significant combination of users/time within the MTB community the way this will probably go down for me is;
> 
> 1. Find other choice for current build project.
> 
> ...


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Nice review NB. Update on the warranty though. 

"This products bearings and Sprag are guaranteed against manufacturing defects for a period of one (1) year from the original date of purchase. These are all the components which are NOT manufactured by Onyx Racing Products."

"Damage resulting from use, accident, or normal wear and tear is not covered by this or any warranty."


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Another thing to throw out there is they will do custom logo's or laser etching on the hubs. Its a nice custom touch  Here is one they did for us on a nice set of Candy Apple red


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

dustyduke22 said:


> First off, the Onyx hubs will roll much better than the Hadley's. Heck, they spin smoother and longer than any hub I have every ridden or built.
> 
> As far as the Kings having 'too much drag', it has been my experience that if they are properly pre-loaded this won't be the case. My Kings spin every bit as long as my other hubsets (other than the Onxy).
> 
> Reasons for excessive drag on the Kings could come from the pre-load being tightened too much, hubs needing overhaul, or the rubber seal on the bearings not being seated properly under the snap rings.


How should the rubber seal on the bearings be seated? They're pressed directly against the bearings on my hub, with the snap ring ensuring there's extra pressure on it. Can't say how that does not create more drag than a 2RS or LLB sealed cartridge bearing. That and the angular contact design and needle bearing design have far far more surface contact, which attributes to the feeling of extra drag (but far more durability and consistent reliable performance). CKs are known for surviving fords through knee deep creeks and streams, and even surviving a fall into a river--I recall a story about a bike found on North Umpqua with CK hubs which were practically pristine inside. I'd bet the world cup racers like the Santa Cruz Syndicate are ditching those bearing seals.

Lube makes a notable difference too. I once made my DT hubs push my crank forward when freewheeling in the stand as much as my CKs, by using too much grease on the ratchet rings. Cleaned it and applied sparingly with a cotton swab, and now it seems better than ever. What to use on CK? I use Mobil1 full syn motor oil on my RingDrive (spread on the helical coil to apply) and RingDrive lube in the bearings, for dusty SoCal. Not too afraid to go in there often.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Varaxis said:


> How should the rubber seal on the bearings be seated? They're pressed directly against the bearings on my hub, with the snap ring ensuring there's extra pressure on it. Can't say how that does not create more drag than a 2RS or LLB sealed cartridge bearing. That and the angular contact design and needle bearing design have far far more surface contact, which attributes to the feeling of extra drag (but far more durability and consistent reliable performance). CKs are known for surviving fords through knee deep creeks and streams, and even surviving a fall into a river--I recall a story about a bike found on North Umpqua with CK hubs which were practically pristine inside. I'd bet the world cup racers like the Santa Cruz Syndicate are ditching those bearing seals.
> 
> Lube makes a notable difference too. I once made my DT hubs push my crank forward when freewheeling in the stand as much as my CKs, by using too much grease on the ratchet rings. Cleaned it and applied sparingly with a cotton swab, and now it seems better than ever. What to use on CK? I use Mobil1 full syn motor oil on my RingDrive (spread on the helical coil to apply) and RingDrive lube in the bearings, for dusty SoCal. Not too afraid to go in there often.


When you are putting your snap ring back in, its pretty easy to wedge the rubber seal too far into the bearings. The older the rubber seal is, the more flexible and loose it becomes. I recently replaced my 7 year old rubber seals and snap ring with new ones and was very impressed with how easy the bearings went back together.

When you clean and lube your bearings, are you pressing your bearings all the way out with the CK tool, or servicing them in place? For me, its much easier to remove the bearings in order to get them cleaned and all the old lube removed.

Depending on if you have stainless or ceramic bearings will determine how much ring drive lube you use in the bearings. Too much grease will put extra friction on the bearings and add drag. I believe you only run the lube half way around the bearing before you spin them to evenly distribute the lube.

There is a happy medium between too tight and just right. Its something I can't describe, but its a feel. The difference can be as little as 1 or 2 mm's

On the splines, a very light oil is recommended such as Tri Flow.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I just use WD-40 to flush everything out in place on mine. My seals are pretty old (3+ years) and seem to have been pressed into a wavy shape, indeed thinner and looser. Have notches in the helical spline too, but they're less than 0.3mm deep I'd estimate. I have stainless bearings, which I put 1 bead of ringdrive lube around the entire thing. Guess I've been using a bit much. Thanks for the tips to try and minimize drag. 

Not sure about contacting CK about spare seals. Last time I called them, they kept saying they'd have some spare parts on a Fri, postponing to the next Fri, and then after (axle conversion kit). Think I just simply ordered from universal. Looks like universal has the seal and snap ring kits listed, though are out of stock for the back.


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## Kliemann53 (Aug 11, 2009)

You can get any Chris King parts at www.AVT.Bike - Chris King World's Largest Dealer


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I decided to go with Derby XC 29er carbon rims with My Onyx hubs, should have the rims by Monday and built up by Thursday. I'm really excited and will post some picts followed by what I think! Sapim CX Ray spokes and Lilly Percision alloy nips, 2 cross lace pattern.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just ordered my second set of Onyz hubs for a 29+ build:

Onyx Racing Hubs 15 x 150/12 x 170
WTB Scraper rims 29"
Surly Dirt Wizard 29 x 3"
DT Swiss DB spokes

These wheels will see dual use on a Ventana El Jefe Tandem and Foes Mutz (assuming they fit)

I'm getting gold hubs this time, yummy


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Derby's came in, really nice by the way!! Very well made. Waiting on spokes, red Sapim CX Ray. Very hard to get!!


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

Onyx Racing hub, CX-Rays, and Derby rim for me also.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Nice, classic look real old school. Lets us know how you like the combo?


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

I've been riding 40mm Derby rims for near two years. Their volume tends to amplify/resonate pawl noise somewhat. The lack of vibration and grating noise from the OR hub is a joy to experience. It makes the entire drivetrain feel refined. Sprag engagement feels less than instant due to an absence of the kind of feedback I'm accustomed to. The reality is, engagement is truly instant. With a clutch RD maintaining firm chain tension, the ride is like a fixed gear.

I like the look of bladed spokes, and CX-Rays in particular. Torsional stiffness with this wheel is greater than any wheel I've owned, however, in my opinion that's mostly due to this 26inch wheel size, not the spokes. The hub has thick flanges, which do accommodate the marginally long neck of CX-Ray spokes well.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Great info!! Thanks. I'm glad I went with Derby over LB. The weight of the Derby rim was my concern 463 and 465g almost went with NOX rims another great company. The Onyx hubs feel so smooth in my hand when spinning looking so forward to experiencing the no sound, no vibration-refined feel you are describing. I'm like a kid in a candy store !!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

HillDancer said:


> I've been riding 40mm Derby rims for near two years. Their volume tends to amplify/resonate pawl noise somewhat. The lack of vibration and grating noise from the OR hub is a joy to experience. It makes the entire drivetrain feel refined. Sprag engagement feels less than instant due to an absence of the kind of feedback I'm accustomed to. The reality is, engagement is truly instant. With a clutch RD maintaining firm chain tension, the ride is like a fixed gear.
> 
> I like the look of bladed spokes, and CX-Rays in particular. Torsional stiffness with this wheel is greater than any wheel I've owned, however, in my opinion that's mostly due to this 26inch wheel size, not the spokes. The hub has thick flanges, which do accommodate the marginally long neck of CX-Ray spokes well.


I think the width of the 26in Derby hoop is the main culprit for an extremely stiff wheel. A nice thing about the CX-Rays is there is some 'give' under impacts or hard riding. Think of it as stretching vs breaking.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

You guys are making my pants a little tight in the front w/ all this derby talk.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Here are a few shots of my new Candy Red hubs. Pretty neat to have the ability to have custom laser etching.

Better pics to come


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got my second set of Onyz in gold, build starts tomorrow, 29" Scrapers and Dirt Wizards, yummy 

The engagement and lack of friction is to die for, the extra 100-150gm is well worth it.

Edit for pics:















I m totally in love with these wheels! The Dirt Wizards are awesome, the rims are stiff, and the hubs are amazing!

The 650b+ wheelset is going on the Mutz


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Got my second set of Onyz in gold, build starts tomorrow, 29" Scrapers and Dirt Wizards, yummy
> 
> The engagement and lack of friction is to die for, the extra 100-150gm is well worth it.


Sweet, I am finally building up my set, I was impressed with how smooth these things were bare, but it is unbelievable how well they spin in the stand. Big beefy rock solid hubs should not be this smooth and frictionless.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

These things are SWEET! I rode my dh bike 23 miles with 2.4 tires mounted on a mix of pavement and singletrack and averaged 17 to 18mph. It coasts like a road bike but silent.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Onyx front hub so nice and well designed axle comes apart with preload adjustment. Solid axle with huge bearings inside hub shell, even the bearing on brake side of my centerlock is over sized. Had axle out in 1 minute. 
I need to point out how great Onyx customer service is, the best!!


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

That is a big ol' bearing!!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Onyx front hub so nice and well designed axle comes apart with preload adjustment. Solid axle with huge bearings inside hub shell, even the bearing on brake side of my centerlock is over sized. Had axle out in 1 minute.
> I need to point out how great Onyx customer service is, the best!!


The back hubs is also very simple to take apart. Its pretty cool to see the Sprags 

Hurry up and get your wheels built!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

dustyduke22 said:


> The back hubs is also very simple to take apart. Its pretty cool to see the Sprags
> 
> Hurry up and get your wheels built!


Trust me, the wait is killing me! The Red Sapim CX Ray spokes are on the way from Belgium now. Lilly Green Nips in.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Here are my new personal wheels.

Once being spoiled with instant engagement and silent coasting, I had to get another set for the new bike

Ordered up the Candy Red hubs which are the most brilliant red I have ever seen. Its even a deeper red than the pics will show  I re-used my Atomik rims from a previous build.

Now by bike just needs to show up!


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## Mallanaga (Jun 30, 2007)

How are these handling torque?? I have a DT hub and I was skipping with the 54 tooth, so I downgraded to the 18. Was able to get the teeth to skip first ride... 

I was looking into the TP Stealth hubs, and Shiggy mentioned they were blowing up under serious load. My research sent me down this rabbit hole, and I'm super intrigued. 

Anyone noticed anything quirky hammering this hub from a stop? 

(I'm about 240, and cranking a SS belt drive.)


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Mallanaga said:


> How are these handling torque?? I have a DT hub and I was skipping with the 54 tooth, so I downgraded to the 18. Was able to get the teeth to skip first ride...
> 
> I was looking into the TP Stealth hubs, and Shiggy mentioned they were blowing up under serious load. My research sent me down this rabbit hole, and I'm super intrigued.
> 
> ...


I am not much lighter than you, and mine feel rock solid. I have not had them long, though. I ended up going with Onyx because I wanted a hub that was bulletproof, and the silence and smoothness are excellent bonus features. If I recall correctly from my conversation with Jim at Onyx, they tested the hubs with torque far beyond what a human cyclist could produce, and ultimately they will just slip. Once the load is reduced they work like they are supposed to again with no damage. They should be close to impossible to blow up.


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## Mallanaga (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm in...


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## Badmovies.org (May 20, 2013)

I've been a longtime fan of the DT 240s, and am building a new bike. The LBS showed off the Onyx hubs, and I'm going to give them a try. I love hearing just the bike interacting with the trail, and the low drag/fast engagement seems like a great thing. Should have the new bike in a few weeks and I'll report back after a few rides.


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## BillT (Dec 24, 2003)

Had my first ride on the Onyx hub today after 15+ years on a King. The hub was really cool and felt so different from the King that I almost thought it was broken. When you stop pedaling and coast, you can't feel anything mechanical going on in the hub...almost like it has magically turned into a front hub and is just some bearings and an axle but as soon as you pedal, the power is there with zero pause. Assuming they end up being at least somewhat durable, I'm not sure if I'll ever use a different hub again.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I am starting to wish I had gone w/ Onyx instead of I9 for my 190mm fat bike. That I9 is sooo stinkn' loud.loud.loud.loud.loud

As a clyde who has a colorfull history w/ rear hubs, I was too chicken to be an early adopter. If I would have known I9 was going to be sooo loud, I would have thought twice. But, so far I9 has been fantastic. Just something to consider. :thumbsup:


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Where is the best place to get the hubs from. Just looking for the rear.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> I am starting to wish I had gone w/ Onyx instead of I9 for my 190mm fat bike. That I9 is sooo stinkn' loud.loud.loud.loud.loud
> 
> As a clyde who has a colorfull history w/ rear hubs, I was too chicken to be an early adopter. If I would have known I9 was going to be sooo loud, I would have thought twice. But, so far I9 has been fantastic. Just something to consider. :thumbsup:


All you need to do remove driver and put in some Dumonde Freehub Grease inside the pawls, works great!! My i9's were quiet after doing this, but the Onyx hubs are on a different level on percision and quality.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

caRpetbomBer said:


> Where is the best place to get the hubs from. Just looking for the rear.


If your LBS or your favorite wheel builder


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

caRpetbomBer said:


> Where is the best place to get the hubs from. Just looking for the rear.


 I got mine from Universal. Shipped to Canada with no problem.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> I am starting to wish I had gone w/ Onyx instead of I9 for my 190mm fat bike. That I9 is sooo stinkn' loud.loud.loud.loud.loud
> 
> As a clyde who has a colorfull history w/ rear hubs, I was too chicken to be an early adopter. If I would have known I9 was going to be sooo loud, I would have thought twice. But, so far I9 has been fantastic. Just something to consider. :thumbsup:


I replaced a 197 Chosen hub with an Onyx. At this width the hub is symmetrical and the wheel built up nicely using the old spokes.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

dgw7000 said:


> All you need to do remove driver and put in some Dumonde Freehub Grease inside the pawls, works great!! My i9's were quiet after doing this, but the Onyx hubs are on a different level on percision and quality.


Ohh great....another hub specific grease. I wish my bike required the same amount of lube as my wife=ZERO!!

You used the grease, and NOT the oil? I9 calls for the OIL.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> Ohh great....another hub specific grease. I wish my bike required the same amount of lube as my wife=ZERO!!
> 
> You used the grease, and NOT the oil? I9 calls for the OIL.


I see what you did there!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The wheels are done and worth the wait, I might be the only person in the Country that has red Sapim CX Ray spokes. The hubs are like butter!! Taking the bike out tomorrow!!


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

I have had no idea that red Sapim CX-Ray even existed...


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## live2play (Jul 7, 2011)

Where'd you get the red CX rays?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

live2play said:


> Where'd you get the red CX rays?


S/O from Belgium, they are now done making these. Shirks Bike Shop in PA, they sell a lot of Sapim spokes.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Tried one today. Very short test. A very nice guy let me pedal his sick brand new build around the parking lot before it even had a maiden voyage. I basically jumped him when I saw the lime green color I saw in this thread. 
Bottom line is, the next nice rear hub I buy will be an onyx. Amazeballs. I expected a little clunk when the hub engaged... Something. There's nothing. It's "instant" in the truest sense.


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## Badmovies.org (May 20, 2013)

92gli said:


> Tried one today. Very short test. A very nice guy let me pedal his sick brand new build around the parking lot before it even had a maiden voyage. I basically jumped him when I saw the lime green color I saw in this thread.
> Bottom line is, the next nice rear hub I buy will be an onyx. Amazeballs. I expected a little clunk when the hub engaged... Something. There's nothing. It's "instant" in the truest sense.


Ha! To be exact, you tried them out at 1:00pm, at the Fair Hill North Appleton lot. Hope you had a great ride.

I put 21 miles on the new Pivot yesterday with a good mix of gravel, flowy singletrack, and some more technical stuff. The difference between my DT 240s and the Onyx is amazing. They engage right away and roll smooth. So long as the hubs prove durable and low-maintenance (a reason I loved 240s), the Onyx hubs are my new gold standard.


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## Bike&Fish (Oct 12, 2013)

I'm intrigued.

Sent from my VK810 4G using Tapatalk


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Nice!! What color are the hubs?



dgw7000 said:


> The wheels are done and worth the wait, I might be the only person in the Country that has red Sapim CX Ray spokes. The hubs are like butter!! Taking the bike out tomorrow!!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

They are Glowing Yellow! I went out today on my new Pivot 429sl with Onyx Hubs, Derby rims great combo by the way. 3.2 hour ride on East Coast rocks, roots and log overs. Went through creeks and did a lot of technical climbing. List of other hubs I have had or still do have.. DT swiss 240 single speed, Hadley with XD driver, I9 Torch, Project 321 lefty hub. 

Dt Swiss are very easy to take care of with very smooth nicely sealed bearings, very light and very simplistic. They just always work!! No bling, low engagement and if you do the 52 tooth upgrade they get really loud.

Hadley weight 'rear hub' about 110 grams less than Onyx rear hub, well made with great machining. 72 points engagement, great customer service. They will go out the way to make you happy. I have been having a popping sound coming from my rear hub, the pauls can sometimes stick from there spring design. Bearings need replaced every year, overhaul very good hubs!!

I9 are light and very bling, had to do 3 revision to rear hub. They do stand behind what they sell, but the customer should not be the Guinea pig. I do not see the hubs lasting 5 years, machining and ano just ok "could be better". 120 points engagement with noise that can really be felt.

Project 321 I really like them, they use i9 drive system but have made some improvements. Better bearings, better end caps, better ano and better machining. If I want a light hub with good engagement I would go Project 321. Small company with great service.

Onyx Racing Hubs, there is a reason they say "Racing" they are freaking fast!! At first I was just riding and really enjoying the no sound thing, but its really much more than that. You don't feel anything either, I'm talking about the vibration that's felt from all other hubs on the market. Onyx you feel the air going over your body, and when you stop peddling your speed almost speeds up. Engagement is instant no ****, even when you back peddle it feels so much more refined when any other hub. When your entire bike is so quiet it really adds to the joy of the bike.
Like other people have mentioned time will tell how well they will hold up, time will tell and I will test them and race them 5to6 times a week. This sport is all about enjoying and loving what we do, Onyx/Derby combo so far "a game changer". It's like butter!! Love it. The passion is there.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We run a set on a 29+ mountain tandem and I run a set on 27+ Mutz, they are bomber.

I'm not sure what Shiggy is talking about, maybe Stealth had some issues with contamination; I remember he mentioned that when I showed him my hubs, but Onyx is solid stuff.

You are a big guy, but you will never create the torque that a tandem can create. We ran ours hard the first week at Moab, slickrock friction, slow cranking with lots of starts and stops, pretty much the hardest use imaginable, and they are good as new.

I hate to say it, but DT are garbage, really there is no pawl hub worth mentioning in the same sentence with Onyx. Granted there are better pawl hubs, but a pawl hub will always be a pawl hub, which makes it inherently weaker than a non pawl hub.

Ratchets break and skip, they wear our, it's just how it is.

Get a hub, lace it up, see if you can break it, I dare you 



Mallanaga said:


> How are these handling torque?? I have a DT hub and I was skipping with the 54 tooth, so I downgraded to the 18. Was able to get the teeth to skip first ride...
> 
> I was looking into the TP Stealth hubs, and Shiggy mentioned they were blowing up under serious load. My research sent me down this rabbit hole, and I'm super intrigued.
> 
> ...


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## tehdually (Oct 17, 2012)

I currently have a Gen 1.5 proto Onyx hub laced up to my gravel/cx/road duty Foundry Auger. Well over 3k miles since last June when I laced up the wheels. Absolutely flawless, zero maintenance and spins as good as the day I built the wheels. My hub is heavier than the current offerings. I'm sending the hub in next week for inspection and breakdown. I'll let you know what Jim finds out about the longevity and long term real-world performance.


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## caRpetbomBer (Jul 13, 2013)

Im really getting the itch for a new rear wheel. Going with a Onyx rear hub. Just not to sure about the rim. The Asymmetric 38mm or 35mm are looking real nice.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Profile Elite hub nicer than both, no comparison.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

bald dirt bag said:


> Profile Elite hub nicer than both, no comparison.


Probably shouldn't feed the troll, but yeah, no comparison alright, Profiles raise the dead with the noise they make. Only two pawls engage, but I have to listen to six of them. Was riding with a guy today on them, sure they are nicely made, solid hubs, but now that I have had my Onyx hubs for a while I would rather have a tooth pulled than listen to those Profiles howl on my bike. The only thing better about Profile is that they are cheaper and lighter, both are solidly built with good bearings, but I'll take the Onyx's silence and amazingly perfect engagement any day. I am ruined for riding anything else, silence is golden.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

The Elite is a completely different hub than a classic, Elite is 6 pawl engages 3 at any time. The classic is four pawl with two pawl engagement. As far as cheaper, not so much, my TI Elite hub set with TI axle and driver and TI bolts came in at a little over a grand. I have Profile hubs that I have been running for 25 years in the classic version without failure and have never skipped once EVER. Other brand pawl hubs do skip but not Profiles, noise wise I use a little synthetic lightweight grease on the driver occasionally to keep out water and keep noise down. Of course if you are riding a comfort bike maybe a internal gear hub would be better for you so you do not have to listen to that annoying click when you change gears and some slicks to keep down tire noise. When I am tearing up a trail or cranking through a path hub noise is not even on my mind, dependability, weight and strength is along with solid quick engagement. I have blown up nearly every hub out there so I am willing to spend the extra buck for the good stuff rather than walk home, I killed a king like a tinker toy, and it is a boat anchor. I tried a set op Paul's but they blew out the drivers fast. I considered the Onyx for my race bike but the sloppy engagement and weak axle arrangement would not last long for me, plus the weight is always a consideration. The pawl system has been the hard core standard for a reason, it holds more torque, is dependable and field serviceable ( not that I ever had to ). Really the Onyx is not a new idea if you ever had a bendix coaster apart, it works much like the same concept, I still run one on my Flatlander from the eighties. Really I suppose what you are looking for, I run a coaster on my beach cruiser, smooth and silent but eventually I will upgrade to a three speed internal geared hub with drum brake to ditch the single speed in the rear and a generator disk front for lighting. As far as is any hub better than another I suppose it comes down to how hard you use it, and how much you want to spend. The nice thing about a custom built hub is if you want all the goodies you can get them, if you just want an economical roller get a Hope or something.


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## HillDancer (Dec 10, 2012)

Two major inaccuracies, there is nothing sloppy about engagement in an Onyx Racing hub, and the Bendix drive screw & expander, is nothing like a Sprag clutch.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I was referring to the friction drive system VS the mechanical ratcheting system is all, but engagement is definetly different from one to another. To some not so important than others.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

bald dirt bag said:


> I was referring to the friction drive system VS the mechanical ratcheting system is all, but engagement is definetly different from one to another. To some not so important than others.


Apparently you have never been within 100 miles of an Onyx Racing hub, because you have no idea what you are talking about. You are also unclear on your beloved Profile Elite hubs. Elite hubs have 6 pawls, but only two engage at any one time, not 3 as you said. Do the math, 68 teeth, 204 points of engagement, 3 pairs of pawls to make that work. So you listen to 6 howling away for a maximum of two engaged at any one time. And the rare but occasional single pawl partial engagement which is one of the main reasons I hate pawl hubs, besides the noise. Compare that with Onyx, where there is a functionally infinite number of instant engagement points, with imperceptable play, certainly way less than in the rest of the drivetrain. And their sprag clutch system is entirely unique in the industry, the only thing it resembles is a Stealth hub but it is definitely different. If you had ever held one in your hands or even seen one in person, you would understand these things and not make ridiculous claims about them, unless you really are just a troll shill for Profile. And I like Profile just fine, I respect them as a company and I know their stuff works. I have friends that are loyal Profile riders and racers, and some people like noisy hubs. But after building myself an Onyx based wheelset and riding them, I would hate to go back to a regular wheelset with any number of pawls. And Profile does not even offer the configuration I ordered my hubs in, 10mm thru-axle. You also mention weak axles in Onyx hubs, maybe you are thinking of the old DT Onyx hubs? Because these Onyx Racing hubs are built to feel like they are a solid chunk of billet. About the only thing you got right is that Profiles are not cheaper than Onyx, my bad, I guess being lighter is their only advantage, and I will gladly take the weight for the benefits.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Dude i Know all the pro riders riding are riding ratcheting hubs and yes they some have three, sone have four and some have six pawl drive. I should know because I have the drivers sitting on my bench right now. I guess the world is wrong and you are right excuse all of all of us SORRY. BTW I have been riding and wrenching since 1979 and have an engineering degree. It is good I will never be on the same track as you for your sake. And yes I have ridden, owned and trashed Onyx and Ghost hubs along with Kings and about every other hub you could name that is any decent. I own over 20 bikes currently, if you read my post that is if you can read, I had Onyx hubs on my race bike and they were heavy and not very solid. I do drops off staircases and grind rails with my hubs, yours would not last long on the street or track. So go cruise your comfort bike somewhere else. I custom build every bike I own myself including frame engineering and suspension modifications. I also build drag race engines, race car chassis and drive trains. Those are my hobbies after doing more technical stuff.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

bald dirt bag said:


> Dude i Know all the pro riders riding are riding ratcheting hubs and yes they some have three, sone have four and some have six pawl drive. I should know because I have the drivers sitting on my bench right now. I guess the world is wrong and you are right excuse all of all of us SORRY. BTW I have been riding and wrenching since 1979 and have an engineering degree. It is good I will never be on the same track as you for your sake. And yes I have ridden, owned and trashed Onyx and Ghost hubs along with Kings and about every other hub you could name that is any decent. I own over 20 bikes currently, if you read my post that is if you can read, I had Onyx hubs on my race bike and they were heavy and not very solid. I do drops off staircases and grind rails with my hubs, yours would not last long on the street or track. So go cruise your comfort bike somewhere else. I custom build every bike I own myself including frame engineering and suspension modifications. I also build drag race engines, race car chassis and drive trains. Those are my hobbies after doing more technical stuff.


For a dude with such a diverse and impressive history, it is shocking that you are also a clueless blowhard. Ah, such is the interwebs.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Funny how people can talk a lot behind a computer screen, you must be a Walmart greeter LOL. I am sorry all the kids in your neighborhood beat you up.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Why is it that every time someone brings up the profile hubs on this board the approach is to trash everything else on the market? I don't remember the user name of the last guy with the massive boner for profiles, but bald dirt bag isn't the first (or maybe he is, with a different user name). 

Must be a florida thing.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Actually I like a lot of different hubs and use many, but for some reason I got personally attacked. I ride, Odyssey hubs, ACS hubs, Shimano, Shadow Cospiracy and Kings are nice also. I even have a wheel set with Hope hubs laying around somewhere. But the Onyx I had already and got rid of because they are expensive for what they are. A lot of hubs are good for one purpose but not another. Onyx is quiet yes but heavy, expensive and not a very durable hub, so if you are going to spend big money just get a solid part. If I wanted to get a top of the line hub built custom to my specififications with special bearing, driver, materials, and axle type I would go with the Profile. Kings have a limited amount of options but are a good solid unit but once again open your wallet. The Onyx I was not impressed with, parts are non existent, the engagement under hard load was vague. The design is what is an issue for me, if you want a quiet hub go internal geared because the drivetrain inherently makes noise anyhow on a shifter style drivetrain. The King has always been a favorite because of dependability and nice engagement. The axle could use some improvement but they will run for years without service as will all the other hubs I ride. On a road bike my pick would be a Paul's hubs with QR for sure.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Hey Bald,

I am curious about the Onyx hub you had not being durable. Care to elaborate a bit?


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

bald dirt bag said:


> Actually I like a lot of different hubs and use many, but for some reason I got personally attacked.


BDB, you were not attacked, you were called out for being a troll. You have been trolling this thread for months. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you mean well and just don't realize what you are doing, but believe me when I tell you it is bad form and ruins your credibility when you repeatedly post stuff that is unrelated to the thread's subject. And when you immediately go into butthurt internet tough-guy mode upon being corrected on posting bad information, that just makes you look more like a troll. It is pretty much the definition of it.



bald dirt bag said:


> The design is what is an issue for me, if you want a quiet hub go internal geared because the drivetrain inherently makes noise anyhow on a shifter style drivetrain.


The idea behind a quiet hub like an Onyx or Stealth is to not hear the hub while coasting, so the drivetrain type is irrelevant. I was surprised how much I like hearing nothing but the fluidly soft white noise of wind and rolling tire when coasting, hearing the knobs grabbing the dirt instead of a mechanical cacophony really adds to the experience in the woods for me. Your rides may vary, I too would like to hear some details of your Onyx experience because it sure doesn't seem to match up with what current Onyx customers are reporting, or my own personal experience so far as an Onyx rider. You obviously have a lot to say, try doing it in a way that doesn't spam up the thread for those of us that subscribe for the intended discussion. You claim to be an actual former Onyx owner, and yet you have failed to enlighten us on this for months, instead opting to just shill for Profile.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Do we have any real world weights on these hubs? Say in a 12x142, 32hole rear and maybe a 15mmqr 32hole front?


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I snapped the axle while on the track and busted my collar bone, that was the final straw for me. It snapped dead center and grenaded. Before that I had issues with inconsistent engaugement, granted I was on a BMX track and I run 180-185 mm cranks along with weighing 175 lbs. the hub just blew apart on me. I ran a King on a FBM park bike and loved the quick response but I had to run spacers as Kings do not come in 14mm so I was tearing up axles when running pegs. I would love to have an internal clutch hub that could do what a pawl type hub could for the sake of keeping out dirt and sand. The ratchet style hub design is hard to beat, simple, easily serviceable and can be adapted to different drive trains. I remember when the freewheel hub was replaced with the current standard driver it was quickly common on all hubs. Granted there are many variants on the basic concept but no one has come up with a better system yet. I have to admit I maybe a Onyx hater due to my snapped hub incident but I run a 3/8 axle Odyssey hub on my race bike and have not had any issues yet and it was a 130 buck hub. I love trying new gadgets but maybe technology has not caught up on that one.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

bald dirt bag said:


> I snapped the axle while on the track and busted my collar bone, that was the final straw for me. It snapped dead center and grenaded. Before that I had issues with inconsistent engaugement, granted I was on a BMX track and I run 180-185 mm cranks along with weighing 175 lbs. the hub just blew apart on me...
> 
> ...I love trying new gadgets but maybe technology has not caught up on that one.


That certainly would qualify as a bogus experience, thanks for the reply. Can you provide a few more details? How long ago was this, and what version of hub were you running? I have heard of problems with Onyx hubs, I did a fair bit of research before going with them. They went through the new product development process and they started in BMX, were you an early adopter? They are the only company to make a sprag clutch work for bicycles and Jim at Onyx will freely talk about how it was not an easy process. But I have yet to hear of a problem with a recent hub and there are reports even in this thread of good experiences in severe duty like Tandem use. I am not easy on hubs and the engagement was and remains a selling point for me. But I can certainly understand being pissed about a bone breaking failure. Personally, I would trust a Profile hub over most pawl hubs, but I really don't like the sound. King was my second choice to Onyx and they are loud enough. If my Onyx experience continues to go well, I don't think I will ever ride anything else based on the quality of engagement and the silence.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

006_007 said:


> Do we have any real world weights on these hubs? Say in a 12x142, 32hole rear and maybe a 15mmqr 32hole front?


Based on my set, I am running a 10mm thru axle by 135 rear and 15mm front, 32 hole and 6-bolt disc, you are looking at around 490g rear and 214g front.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

How long has the sprag clutch been in production? I was under the impression that this was a new release. Have they used that tech in BMX hubs for years?


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I guess it was about 3-4 years ago, I installed it on my Standard race bike as a replacement for a failed Tree hub. The spacing was a little funky as I had to stretch the drop outs to get it to slide in. It was a brand new product and got a deal on it from the shop my buddy owns. I am not sure how long it was laying around? I break other stuff either on my body or bike occasionally so it certainly was not an isolated incident. I am hard on my bikes sometimes so stuff gets banged up. I just like the Profile because of reliability, strength and I can get a driver anywhere for a gear change. I am currently rebuilding the hubs on my Mc Rumble and they ran 15 years without a glitch. I never had them apart till now. What got them was water in the bearings. My other favorite was my King but I busted the flange on it so it was toast, that is a common failure in park use so that was no fault of the hub. I actually like the concept of a fully sealed hub but I suppose after time everything fails. I actually ride a bike most often with old school cheapy loose ball coaster hubs but it is road use only. The trials guys seem to like the King also but they are the swarm of angry bees hubs so yes they are loud. I rode a bike briefly when visiting a friend with Ghost hubs but being somebody else's bike I was kinda nervous riding it.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

My experience with Onyx;

Despite my previous comments in this thread, curiosity won out over caution, and I decided that I would acquire a set of Onyx hubs for a new singlespeed build. Quiet freewheeling + as close to instant engagement as one could hope for. What more could anyone want for blingy new SS wheels? 

I had a short list of questions and sent to Onyx by email, itemized as about a half dozen brief bullet points. A couple of days later I received a boilerplate response plus the spreadsheet documents that have already been linked in this thread, which together did answer a couple of my questions. Some of my questions were not answered by the stock information though. Over the next 2 weeks I left 2 phone messages, and also sent another revision of my outstanding questions trying to pare it down to be even more concise to help with handling on the Onyx end. I did not receive any reply to the phone messages, and was sent the same boilerplate email again, including the closing text to let them know if I have any more questions.

Ummmm ya guys, in fact I did have more questions, sent to you twice now in 2 separate emails, neither of which you took the time to actually read, and also tried to follow up by phone in case that was your preferred method of responding to my questions. :madman:

Maybe some of you are receiving top notch service and communications from Onyx. However, I can only go by my own experiences and as described above those were sub optimal to say the least. With what is still a fairly new entrant to the MTB market, and future service/parts needs still a big unknown at this time, I need to know that a company whose products I am paying top ollar for will actually respond with proper care to inbound communications.

I ordered a set of I9s instead. In the past I've had CK, I9, Hadley, DT Swiss, Shimano, etc. would be happy to use any of these again, understanding the compromises of each. Maybe I'll look at Onyx sometime again in the future, but at this time they aren't ready for me as a customer.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Circlip said:


> My experience with Onyx;
> 
> Despite my previous comments in this thread, curiosity won out over caution, and I decided that I would acquire a set of Onyx hubs for a new singlespeed build. Quiet freewheeling + as close to instant engagement as one could hope for. What more could anyone want for blingy new SS wheels?
> 
> ...


I think they are not really good with emails, phonecalls, and displaying their information on their website. I was advised that the best place to get professional service from them is on their facebook page.

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires...-clutch-vs-other-types-engagement-970959.html


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

006_007 said:


> I was advised that the best place to get professional service from them is on their facebook page.


Ya, I'll get right on that!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Circlip said:


> Ya, I'll get right on that!


You went with I9. I had to do 3 revisions of the Torch hubs!! I was the sucker buying a product that needed further testing before hitting the market place. They were really nice taking care of the problem, but a real bummer to go through the hassle. The ano not the best, they make a lot of noise and bearings don't last.

The Project 321 are better in every way to I9, do your research!!

Jim at Onyx gets right back to me within minutes, no other hub I would now buy but Onyx. I have over 540 miles on them now, faster and smoother than ever!! Getting ready to build a boost set now!! Sorry you did not take the plunge!! As guys we always follow are gut.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

dgw7000 said:


> Jim at Onyx gets right back to me within minutes


For unknown reasons my attempts to communicate with Onyx weren't given the same level of consideration. Lucky you.

I've had I9 products previously, although not the Torch hubs. I'm satisfied with my decision, no further research needed for this time.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Circlip said:


> For unknown reasons my attempts to communicate with Onyx weren't given the same level of consideration. Lucky you.


That sucks that you had trouble communicating with Onyx, I caught them at a good time and had a long telephone conversation with Jim when I was considering them as a possibility, it was what made me change my mind from King to Onyx. I have had reasonable response by email, too, but with small and/or growing companies, communication is often a weak link. I know some people who have been in that situation and I have seen how busy they can be, time is a crucial commodity that they don't have enough of so I generally cut them some slack. With Onyx I have yet to have any need to do that.


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

I have spoke to Alan at Onyx and few times and had great experiences.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Do we have any real world weights on these hubs? Say in a 12x142, 32hole rear and maybe a 15mmqr 32hole front?


493.1g for my 12x142 32hole rear with yellow fluoro powdercoat and purple endcaps.

Front is 212.9. I took photos if you have doubts.

Heavy as a tank, but relatively drag free and _instant_ engagement. I mean instant instant. It's pretty cool.

Still working on building the wheels (and the rest of the bike) but I was OK with my onyx experience. I wish their website was adequate, as I had to call a few times to confirm a few things I didn't ask up front (number of spoke holes, make sure they are fluoro and not regular) but everything came out perfect. They definitely need to work on their website and email support, but I didn't have any questions they didn't answer. They still seem to be a bit of a fledgling operation so maybe as more of us spread the word, they'll get a little bit better about being on the ball.

Then again, hadley's website is much worse.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

sandwich said:


> I wish their website was adequate, as I had to call a few times to confirm a few things I didn't ask up front (number of spoke holes, make sure they are fluoro and not regular) but everything came out perfect. They definitely need to work on their website and email support, but I didn't have any questions they didn't answer. They still seem to be a bit of a fledgling operation so maybe as more of us spread the word, they'll get a little bit better about being on the ball.
> 
> Then again, hadley's website is much worse.


Wow, I am scared to check out Hadley's website now. As bad as Onyx's is, they have very ambitious plans for it, and it could go from 2nd worst to best in a blink if they get it together as the plans for it were described to me. But I am cool with it even if it sucks forever as long as the hubs remain awesome.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Wow, I am scared to check out Hadley's website now. As bad as Onyx's is, they have very ambitious plans for it, and it could go from 2nd worst to best in a blink if they get it together as the plans for it were described to me. But I am cool with it even if it sucks forever as long as the hubs remain awesome.


One thing I have found about the engagement, there maybe some lack of it!! Put your crank in the 9 o'clock position while sitting on bike. Put some power into the crank has someone holds the bike from moving, watch how much the cassette moves forward while the bike says still. Not the same if you compare it to any other conventional hub. Another test is to take the wheel off the bike, grap the cassette with both hands and rotate forward. Look at how much the cassette actually moves, this must translate into lost of energy and power while riding!! Let me know what you guys think?
I may try to do some speed tests for my Hadley wheel and than with my Onyx wheel. I will use a slightly heavier tire on the Hadley wheel to offset the lighter rim on the Hadley wheel. The rim on the Onyx wheel is Derby and the Hadley has 50gram lighter LB rim on it. Try to make it fair as possible, rotational weight. Maybe do some 50 yards sprints.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

dgw7000 said:


> One thing I have found about the engagement, there maybe some lack of it!! Put your crank in the 9 o'clock position while sitting on bike. Put some power into the crank has someone holds the bike from moving, watch how much the cassette moves forward while the bike says still. Not the same if you compare it to any other conventional hub. Another test is to take the wheel off the bike, grap the cassette with both hands and rotate forward. Look at how much the cassette actually moves, this must translate into lost of energy and power while riding!! Let me know what you guys think?
> I may try to do some speed tests for my Hadley wheel and than with my Onyx wheel. I will use a slightly heavier tire on the Hadley wheel to offset the lighter rim on the Hadley wheel. The rim on the Onyx wheel is Derby and the Hadley has 50gram lighter LB rim on it. Try to make it fair as possible, rotational weight. Maybe do some 50 yards sprints.


Interesting, I had not noticed this before while riding but when I tried it myself there is a bit of perceptible wind up in the cassette under load. Well, visually perceptible, anyway, possibly someone more sensitive than me could feel it. I suppose this makes sense in a way, just due to the design of the hub compared to a pawl or ring drive where there is a fixed mechanical point of engagement. The sprags are little cam levers and they have no fixed point of latching into the freehub, but once they bite they can continue to move and flex the inner and outer engagement surfaces a tiny amount. I would expect that there isn't any significant loss of energy or power since the wind up is minimal and you recover it as your power input tapers off. This must have been a significant factor in the design and development of the hubs, figuring out how much flex was acceptable versus the weight of the mechanism. Whatever flex there is in the engagement it is minimal enough that I never noticed it so I don't consider it a problem. I am very happy with the way these hubs feel, they are silent, solid and engage virtually instantly.

I think your speed tests would be interesting, although difficult to do accurately unless the differences were significant which I would find very surprising. I also wonder if you don't gain overall from the extremely free coasting the sprags provide, maybe you could test for that, too. But again, I don't expect it to be significant enough to easily test for.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Wow, I am scared to check out Hadley's website now. As bad as Onyx's is, they have very ambitious plans for it, and it could go from 2nd worst to best in a blink if they get it together as the plans for it were described to me. But I am cool with it even if it sucks forever as long as the hubs remain awesome.


It's a long-running joke that hadley doesn't have a website. How they are so popular, but never managed to put something out there that describes their hubs astounds me.

Onyx's website at least shows colors, even if it makes no mention of specs. That was fairly important to me.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

sandwich said:


> It's a long-running joke that hadley doesn't have a website. How they are so popular, but never managed to put something out there that describes their hubs astounds me.
> 
> Onyx's website at least shows colors, even if it makes no mention of specs. That was fairly important to me.


Both Hadley and Onyx are so good they don't need websites. I have sets of each, and hopes, my experience is that Hadleys are better than hopes and Onyx are better than Hadleys (based on rolling resistance and engagement). Hopes are the loudest if you're into that. Time will tell how well the Onyx hold up but the Hadleys have already been proven to be bombproof to me.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Circlip said:


> My experience with Onyx;
> 
> Despite my previous comments in this thread, curiosity won out over caution, and I decided that I would acquire a set of Onyx hubs for a new singlespeed build. Quiet freewheeling + as close to instant engagement as one could hope for. What more could anyone want for blingy new SS wheels?
> 
> ...


HAHAHAH

you should try dealing with true precision. I have a front and rear tp hub. I have ran these for about 10000km now and now the bearings needs to be replaced, swo i mailed them. its quite clear from their site that they have the bearings needed available.

BUUT I also need all o-rings and sealings for my hubs since these are now dried up and cracked. I wrote them an email that i wanted to buy these, or if they were actually included in the bearing kits for the individual hubs.

DIDNT HEAR jack sh1t after that email... how fukcing hard can it be??


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

sandwich said:


> It's a long-running joke that hadley doesn't have a website. How they are so popular, but never managed to put something out there that describes their hubs astounds me.
> 
> Onyx's website at least shows colors, even if it makes no mention of specs. That was fairly important to me.


even white industries have a site!! and they have been around for a l0000ng time! the oldschoolest of the old.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

006_007 said:


> I was advised that the best place to get professional service from them is on their facebook page.


lol seriously wtf is that?? is that even serious? I'd say not. Maybe I'll start making hubs and selling them through youporn, its about as legit imho.

1 you make a site.
2 you link site email to you
3 you sell things by email
4 evolve and have shop on site, no email contacts necessary.

5 if their way of doing business is via facebook, then they must be retarded. and I personally must never but anything they make. ever.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

car bone said:


> ...if their way of doing business is via facebook, then they must be retarded. and I personally must never but anything they make. ever.


They are on Facebook, but I successfully did business with them the old fashioned way via email and telephone. They are aware of their website deficiency, and plan to improve it dramatically, but I think they are busy relocating and expanding. Their product speaks for itself, and I think they do pretty well for having what seems like two guys fielding all the calls. I have no idea how big their staff really is, but in my experience the face of the company is Allen and Jim. They are both responsive in my experience, but I have enough time in working for and dealing with small companies to know that sometimes all the balls do not stay in the air despite best intentions.

A few posts back you mentioned difficulty getting a response from True Precision, they have been around a long time and have a decent if somewhat cheesy website. They should be beyond that phase by now. Onyx seems to offer a very similar but distinctly superior product, due to the use of sprags versus the roller clutch of TP. The Stealth hub has a devoted user base, but they have never set the industry on fire. I think this is primarily because of how damn heavy they are. Onyx has the identical problem, but with one more benefit than TP. Maybe that single superiority is enough to reach the tipping point to push more people to get over the weight issue. It was for me. If they get their website sorted out and continue to get good word of mouth, their MTB future could be much brighter than their current web and social media presence would indicate. It will be interesting to see how they do, don't write them off just because they are a work in progress.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I bought mine over email, they were super quick to respond. Purchased them on a weekend and had them in my hand by Wednesday. I have not ridden any other hubs that beat these in either rolling resistance or engagement, they are on another level.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

First ride on my onyx hubs...

Brilliant! Instantaneous engagement means acceleration everywhere. Places where I was playing "catchup" on the cassette are now replaced by just more go motion. It's great! Dead silent too, it's not something you notice until you have it.

The rear does weigh a ton though!


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## Mallanaga (Jun 30, 2007)

Just got mine on the back of my bike today.

wow.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

Stealth MTB Rear Hub | True Precision Components
If your looking at the Onyx for their clutch "instant engagement" then consider the Stealth. They've been doing MTB hubs for years and are always at InterBike.


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## loopsb (Aug 9, 2004)

Had to test this lack of acces to communication theory....called Onyx ....first time....Jim answered and spent 10 minutes and answered all my questions. Super nice guy to talk to. Sound like they are updating thier website for Interbike the middle of this month too. I think I'm going to try the Kool Aid!


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

hardmtnbiker said:


> Stealth MTB Rear Hub | True Precision Components
> If your looking at the Onyx for their clutch "instant engagement" then consider the Stealth. They've been doing MTB hubs for years and are always at InterBike.


I thought the strealths have significant drag as well?


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

I've only seen one set of Onyx hubs in real life and they were on a DVO equipped Operator carbon at a shop in Whistler last summer. The rear hub was seized and was going back.


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## Chickenbaby (Jan 31, 2015)

Are the TP Stealth and Onyx hubs the only truly silent ones out there? I just got a new bike (Evil Following) built up with Ibis 941 rims on I9 hubs. It seems a shame to swap out a brand new hub, but the noise is driving me nuts. Are there any other rear hubs I should consider?


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I was surprised today when I could hear my friend's hub from 30ft down the trail while my bike was silent...only problem is that it makes creaks from the frame or seatpost that much more apparent... I also miss the hum of the freehub telling me how much speed I'm carrying. When this bike goes, it goes...but you don't get that auditory feedback.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Chickenbaby said:


> on I9 hubs. It seems a shame to swap out a brand new hub, but the noise is driving me nuts. Are there any other rear hubs I should consider?


I have I9 on my fat bike and I cannot stand how much louder it is then my Chris King rear hub. I honestly have to listen pretty hard to hear my Chris King. But god [email protected] bears in the next county over know I am coming w/ I9

A fellow member did suggest Dumondtech FH Grease. I have yet to give it a try, but would like you to try it first!!


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## Chickenbaby (Jan 31, 2015)

jonshonda said:


> I have I9 on my fat bike and I cannot stand how much louder it is then my Chris King rear hub. I honestly have to listen pretty hard to hear my Chris King. But god [email protected] bears in the next county over know I am coming w/ I9
> 
> A fellow member did suggest Dumondtech FH Grease. I have yet to give it a try, but would like you to try it first!!


Sounds like greasing the hub ends up being a fairly temporary solution, so I'm getting pretty serious about giving the Onyx a go. Maybe I'll wait for their web store to finally make an appearance...


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

I have an Evil Following with Roval Fatties. Installed an Onyx rear hub. Works great, dead silent, and if course the engagement is addictive. Heavy though but who cares. Really odd but cool when the bike is silent on the trails. Get one.


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## Massanuttenbiker (Sep 18, 2015)

Sorry to include stuff about I9s v. Onyx, but I thought this might be helpful anyway.

First impressions of Onyx Mountain Bike hub. The sole reason I had this wheel built was I was looking for something more durable than I9, but I didn't want to give up engagement. I am 200lbs kitted up and ride almost nothing but slow technical rock gardens. I session nearly every time that I dab. So I am looking for a hub that can stand nearly constant rock crawling with a clydesdale stomping on the pedals. The wheel: Onyx MTB hub, DT Swiss Alpine III spokes with brass nipples DT Swiss - DT alpine III, and the WTB Asym i35 29er 612 grams Asym | WTB . We forgot to weigh it before putting the tire/rotor/cassette on it, but you can do the math. Watched it being built which was fun. The wheel builder prefers rims where the eyelet goes through both the inner and outer aluminum, but I guess it went together OK. He said he got scalloping at about 25 and I think left it at that.   Yesterday I road Buzzard Rocks which I am not as familiar with, so I didn't really come away with any impressions except nothing bad happened and I wasn't missing the I9s. Today I rode Short Mountain and was really impressed. It seems to roll faster and more effortlessly than the loaner I9 Enduro I was using; and the I9 Enduro rolled better than my tapped out I9 Gravity. My impression is that the wheel is rolling so much faster and is so much more efficient that I could pull one more gear down on climbs. I cannot tell you if this is hub or the whole wheel combination. It is silent when coasting so you don't get the aural clue that you are going faster. I had trouble getting the electronic pressure gauge to work, but at the shop I was around 11psi which doesn't seem right to me, my gauge at home said the same. I only rarely touched rim at this psi and had gobs of traction (still need to try the Michelin MagX). It was beautiful on the south descent precise and smooth.   The hub seems so smooth and silent..like really silent. I don't now if it is the hybrid ceramic bearings or that the Sprag disengages so smoothly but there just isn't noise. You can see how Sprags work here: 



 It is not 0° engagement exactly. Engagement probably begins at 0° but doesn't fully engage for a degree and a half would be my best guess. Twice as good as the I9. It is neat as it is kind of a soft engagement. My hope is that the "soft engagement" will keep the whole drivetrain, wheel, rear triangle, etc. alive longer. I will take a video, put it on youtube and post the link. So I learned today how crappy my pedaling is, as really fast engagement also has the corollary really fast disengagement. When I would stomp and the bike would surge forward, at the bottom of the pedal stroke I would feel the sprags disengage and re-engage a degree or two later. This hub was actually teaching me to pedal smoother with instant feedback.

We'll just have to wait and see how durable it is.  

I9 is actually doing some awesome stuff backing up their product. To their credit, my experience with I9 backing up their product has been amazing. A brand new wheel from them is a thing of beauty, as it should be at that price. I don't think you will find a stiffer wheel on the market and the engagement is pretty amazing. I really liked the toughness of the Gravity(now Grade) rim. Not sure what my expectation should be doing the kind of riding I do at my weight, but at about a season and a half all my I9s begin to develop problems. It usually begins with popping spokes about every other ride. Granted the spokes get quite abraded in the rock gardens on Signal and Short. For the last two years as I began to do more and more rock crawling, again at about a season and a half stuff just starts to go wrong in the hubs with both the Torch and the previous generation. I have spun two drive rings, messed up multiple free hubs, and caused one to lock up like a fixie. I have walked out of the woods four times this season all for 1.5 year old hub failures. So the amazing thing I9 did is machined me a new axle that does not have the internal taper that runs about 2/3rds of the axle length that is presumable there to shave weight. So the new axle is full thickness for nearly the full length. Cutting down flex should make the hub more durable. They also sent a new free hub body, drive ring, and pawls. Super cool I9 thanks.

My impression is that if you are a lighter guy than me not riding rocks everyday you will get years without any problems with an I9 wheel and hub and just the hub will weigh 200-300grams less than the Onyx. I am not sure how much the I9 spokes weigh but I imagine there is a small advantage there too over the DT Swiss Alpine III.   Not sure when I will test the I9 as I am loving the Onyx, but I will let you know when I do.   I am verbose!!


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

https://onyxrp.com/


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maybe the website will be done after Interbike...

I really wish they'd have spent some time up front on advertising, web asite design, etc. .., it'd help their sales and name recognition.

I love my hubs, but it's tough to tout them when ordering is done with a faceless person over the phone.

I'm getting ready to order my third set


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Talking about silent, even my Kings don't make any noise. A little mix of King fluid and motor oil does the trick pretty easily. Engagement is instantly and the only time I hear some faint noise is on the stand.
As they're so strong, I'd rather try a lighter Hun next time than a heavier one. If I decided to part with King after almost 15 years, that is.


Von meinem iPhone gesendet.


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## Bike&Fish (Oct 12, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe the website will be done after Interbike...
> 
> I really wish they'd have spent some time up front on advertising, web asite design, etc. .., it'd help their sales and name recognition.
> 
> ...


I got to see these at interbike. They are pretty impressive looking & simple in design. They should last. They were saying the website was supposed to be done, just behind schedule. Hopefully sometime soon!

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Going to get a new wheel set built but will likely stick with Kings or Hadleys. These seem great but heavy for climbing. I could use them when I build up my "Moab bike" next year.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Hub weight doesn't affect climbing


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Jonesy22 said:


> Hub weight doesn't affect climbing


Uh, any weight anywhere on the bike affects climbing.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Uh, all weight affects climbing since I am not Ulrich or Armstrong.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

Flyer said:


> Going to get a new wheel set built but will likely stick with Kings or Hadleys. These seem great but heavy for climbing. I could use them when I build up my "Moab bike" next year.


I have both hadley and Onyx hubs, the huge reduction in rolling resistance with Onyx hubs matters much more than the slight increase in weight.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

That is a good point I'll need to consider. I am not sure how much real on-the-ground resistance my Kings provide. They don't seem to but I have never compared them to anything else in a long time. I don't think the reduced resistance matters that much when climbing 3,000-5,000 feet, but it is hard to know without using both on a similar ride. Maybe it does.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

If you flip the bike upsidedown and spin the rear they are so smooth you can notice the difference between running a tube and running tubeless with orange seal. They freewheel longer with tubes as the tubeless fluid sloshing around adds extra drag. This is something I never was aware of with other hubs since they would never freewheel long enough for it to be noticeable.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

I have kings on my 29er and I had I9's on my fatty then built up a Bucksaw with Onyx has. They are heavier but the silent and instant engagement is worth the extra grams. Plus the colors are amazing!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Flyer said:


> Going to get a new wheel set built but will likely stick with Kings or Hadleys. These seem great but heavy for climbing. I could use them when I build up my "Moab bike" next year.


I think its pretty funny that an extra 50-100 grams it so heavy that it would not allow you to climb as good 

With a Stainless driver on the Kings, the weight difference between it and the Onyx is pretty dang small.


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## loopsb (Aug 9, 2004)

What is that difference....something close to a Powerbar in your pack? I am not good with small weight measure...never mattered.

So Onyx hubs, 230 lbs, steel driver advised or is it not even an option? Found " onyx steel free hub body - shimano" but it looks like DT SWiss made a "onyx"model hub. I seek knowledge from those who have gone there 🚷


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

No DT Swiss Onyx is not the Onyx we are talking about.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Glad you find it funny. It isn;t a question of climbing "good" but more of a question of dragging less weight over a 5,000 ft ride. As I get older, I like to now see the build in 50-100 gram increments. If I can save 100 grams here and there, I'll do it. I'd rather have a 27 lb bike than a 30 lb bike here in Colorado. My Kings are heavy to begin with but reliability is what makes me stick with them. If I could go lighter and have decent engagement and reliability, I'll get those hubs. Getting ready to change out my 300+ alloy gram handlebar with an Enve bar today.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

Flyer said:


> Glad you find it funny. It isn;t a question of climbing "good" but more of a question of dragging less weight over a 5,000 ft ride. As I get older, I like to now see the build in 50-100 gram increments. If I can save 100 grams here and there, I'll do it. I'd rather have a 27 lb bike than a 30 lb bike here in Colorado. My Kings are heavy to begin with but reliability is what makes me stick with them. If I could go lighter and have decent engagement and reliability, I'll get those hubs. Getting ready to change out my 300+ alloy gram handlebar with an Enve bar today.


If you are in CO and ever come up to ride in summit county let me know if you want to check out the ones on my bike. These hubs are ridiculously smooth, even with running the beefy single speed dj version. They pair excellent with LB carbon rims.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

loopsb said:


> So Onyx hubs, 230 lbs, steel driver advised or is it not even an option? Found " onyx steel free hub body - shimano" but it looks like DT SWiss made a "onyx"model hub. I seek knowledge from those who have gone there 


DT Swiss produced hubs that were called Onyx as a model name years ago, but we are talking about hubs from the Onyx Racing Products company. They only come with a steel freehub body, it is because of the strength needed for the sprag engagement system. This is part of why they are heavier than most hubs, but it also means that you have the durability advantage of steel over aluminum.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

dustyduke22 said:


> I think its pretty funny that an extra 50-100 grams it so heavy that it would not allow you to climb as good
> 
> With a Stainless driver on the Kings, the weight difference between it and the Onyx is pretty dang small.


Yeah, I used to sweat the extra weight, but I finally got over it and now I am very happy with my _heavy_ Onyx hubs.

So I am sitting here at home relaxing with a beer after a great ride, and I decided to peruse the interwebs to find an answer to this question, how much difference does the extra weight make, anyway? A while ago I had found a website that allowed you to enter your data and find out how much extra energy and time you would use, and all I can remember was that I considered the results to be comically inconsequential at the time. And of course I can't find the same calculator now. But I found a different one, and I very roughly entered the numbers for a mythical hill, basically if you could crank up the 8.9 brutal miles of the Alpe d'Huez at a steady 250watts adding an extra 200g to the bike would cost you maybe 13 seconds. I can definitely live with that, these hubs are well worth it.

Run your own numbers...


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

kitejumping: This is a quite a cool coincidence. I ride up there a bit more recently- we have a tiny condo in Breckenridge. In fact, I am doing Kenosha to Breckenridge tomorrow, even though I am probably not as strong as I need to be right now. Worth the views though. I just did Sunbeam to Jacks Cruel Joke to Barney etc...and came down Aspen Alley on Wed. So I'll be there Sun-Tue and maybe back on Thu. Which town are you in....I'm in Breckennridge near Maggie Pond. Would love to check out those hubs and the LB rims.



kitejumping said:


> If you are in CO and ever come up to ride in summit county let me know if you want to check out the ones on my bike. These hubs are ridiculously smooth, even with running the beefy single speed dj version. They pair excellent with LB carbon rims.


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## loopsb (Aug 9, 2004)

Vonfaulkenhausen- that's the info I needed to know....that it is not even an option. Thank you for the help


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Yeah, I used to sweat the extra weight, but I finally got over it and now I am very happy with my _heavy_ Onyx hubs.
> 
> So I am sitting here at home relaxing with a beer after a great ride, and I decided to peruse the interwebs to find an answer to this question, how much difference does the extra weight make, anyway? A while ago I had found a website that allowed you to enter your data and find out how much extra energy and time you would use, and all I can remember was that I considered the results to be comically inconsequential at the time. And of course I can't find the same calculator now. But I found a different one, and I very roughly entered the numbers for a mythical hill, basically if you could crank up the 8.9 brutal miles of the Alpe d'Huez at a steady 250watts adding an extra 200g to the bike would cost you maybe 13 seconds. I can definitely live with that, these hubs are well worth it.
> 
> Run your own numbers...


If you're into numbers, do the same thing with "how much difference does that extra drag make" and "how much difference does that rolling resistance make"...

As always, "a little" of anything won't matter, ever. It's just a piece of the puzzle.
To be fair though, you'll need to use that argument for both your pros and your cons then.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

Flyer said:


> kitejumping: This is a quite a cool coincidence. I ride up there a bit more recently- we have a tiny condo in Breckenridge. In fact, I am doing Kenosha to Breckenridge tomorrow, even though I am probably not as strong as I need to be right now. Worth the views though. I just did Sunbeam to Jacks Cruel Joke to Barney etc...and came down Aspen Alley on Wed. So I'll be there Sun-Tue and maybe back on Thu. Which town are you in....I'm in Breckennridge near Maggie Pond. Would love to check out those hubs and the LB rims.


Nice! I'm in summit cove by keystone, rode at the vail outlier fest today and doing the enduro race there tomorrow. I rode aspen alley on Thursday, the aspens are going off right now. Tomorrow will probably be booked with the enduro race but i'm up for riding any trails around here Monday or Tuesday after 3-4pm or so. I have been abusing the lb 38s and Onyx combo on my dh bike and they are still going strong.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I like options, steel, chromolly or titanium, plus quick parts availability. I can deal with some noise for bullet proof hubs and fast part availability and kits to change to any axle configuration from aluminum to chromolly to titanium, in any size and style in a couple days. Plus like half the weight is a nice plus, I am half deaf anyhow LOL.


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## inonjoey (Jul 19, 2011)

I was very intrigued by the Onyx hubs, but went with Chris King with the SS freehub due to parts availability and known durability. The Onyx hubs sound rad, and I'll likely consider them next time.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

not a lot of freehub drag when you're climbing. Otherwise you're probably climbing the wrong direction.

Still happy with my hubs, though. Don't know that I notice much reduction in rolling resistance, rather that there is no additional rolling resistance for having instant engagement and silent clutching. Rode with a guy on I9s this weekend...ugh.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

sandwich said:


> not a lot of freehub drag when you're climbing. Otherwise you're probably climbing the wrong direction.
> 
> Still happy with my hubs, though. Don't know that I notice much reduction in rolling resistance, rather that there is no additional rolling resistance for having instant engagement and silent clutching. Rode with a guy on I9s this weekend...ugh.


Ha, yeah, I have become an insufferable noise snob since getting these hubs. Well maybe not quite that bad but I sure do notice I9s and Profiles more now, and not in a good way. As to the rolling resistance, like the weight, it probably doesn't make much more than diddly-squat difference in the real world but it is pretty cool to see and feel when you are playing with the hardware. But your old hubs would have to really suck to notice the extra drag on the trail. The engagement and especially the silence, that stuff you notice.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I don't even notice my Profiles when riding, I am concentrating on staying in the track, shifting and overcoming obstacles like jumps, trees and streams to even hear anything going on around the rear of the bike. I also wear a full face when off road to keep my pumpkin from getting smashed or branches from taking my eye out. If you use lube in the free hub driver body it quiets it down considerably. Technically you are supposed to run the driver dry but it increases wear and noise, they come dry from the factory. I use lithium spray lube that goes on liquid and sets up as a light grease when it sets up. Never use mineral oil or grease, it attracts moisture and dirt like a sponge. Really the sound of a free hub is like the hum of a high performance engine, mechanical perfection. Most of my riding involves off road so noise is not a concern at all, if I were building a road bike I might change my mind. All the years I have been riding Odyssey, Shimano and Profile hubs it never bothered me yet. Before that there was a ACS free wheels and such and those never bothered me either. But then again I ride motorcycles with works pipes also and love the sound of a 300cc high compreeion two stroke screaming down the trail so a little noise for me gets the adrenalin pumping LOL.


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## Yfz450killer (Oct 3, 2015)

Bald_dirt_bag I joined this forum just to say I am impressed with Profile Elite hubs so much that I am going to back you up on this. The noise is soothing and quite addicting. No other hub comes close to engagement period. I ride urban and jumplines and I have the Elites on my On-One 29er and my Killswitch and they do not fail. I leave the pack I ride with when we coast down a hill without peddling. Butter smooth action and real quality that you can hear. These old quite guys looking for peace and quite need to stay home and go to the local massage parlor or stick with your no name I dont call my customers back Onyx.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

That's cute, BDB found himself a troll-friend. And you can hear them coming from a mile away.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Yfz450killer said:


> Bald_dirt_bag I joined this forum just to say I am impressed with Profile Elite hubs so much that I am going to back you up on this.


At first I respected your bravery.



Yfz450killer said:


> No other hub comes close to engagement period


Then I suspected you were full of sh!t.



Yfz450killer said:


> I leave the pack I ride with when we coast down a hill without peddling.


This confirmed my suspicion.


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## killjoyken (Jun 12, 2009)

Yfz450killer said:


> No other hub comes close to engagement period.


You obviously haven't ridden Onyx hubs.



Yfz450killer said:


> I leave the pack I ride with when we coast down a hill without peddling.


That comes down to weight, not hubs. You must be one big boy.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Again with the profile fans being *****. Why? Is it a florida thing?


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## Jim Gerhardt (Jan 16, 2015)

I know for a fact the hub that BDB used was a prototype bmx hub with a roller clutch setup. It was when we were first getting going. They had a rider weight limit on those at 65lbs as they were the first ones I made for my 6 year old son.

I'd also like to apologize to the guy that didn't get his questions all answered, we were in the middle of a move and phone system upgrade. It's not an excuse but it is what happened, we lost several voicemails. We are working very hard on our new site which I promise is almost ready. We'll be releasing it in 3 phases, each one adding significant functionality. Please bear with us as we are growing faster than anticipated. I can assure you the quality of our product comes before everything.

Thanks!


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

Has anyone had a set of Onyx SS hubs with 142x12 axle? Please post up specs?


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## Jim Gerhardt (Jan 16, 2015)

@hardmtnbiker the Onyx SS is a BMX 110mm spaced hub.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Anyone know if the antifreeze color would match up well with a King sour apple color headset? Pic anyone?

Thanks!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

It's not a perfect match but its close, I may be able to get a pict tomorrow. Lilly Nipples are also close if you need nips for your wheel build. Lilly nipples match Chris King really well all colors!


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

ReXTless said:


> Anyone know if the antifreeze color would match up well with a King sour apple color headset? Pic anyone?
> 
> Thanks!


No pics, but not even close


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## SleepeRst (Nov 30, 2011)

I picked up a used rear wheel with a CK SS Hub for about $150, pretty hard to beat that for a known quality component!

If I ever get to equip another rear hub maybe i'll try the profiles.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

SleepeRst said:


> If I ever get to equip another rear hub maybe i'll try the profiles.


Ha ha, score one for the bald dirt bag.


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

I haven't had CK hubs so I can't comment on them, but my Onyx hubs has really made my rides more enjoyable. Its not the super smooth bearing or the instant engagement, its the silence. I don't know if I have OCD or what, but constant ticking, buzzing, creaking drives me nuts. My i9s are a very well built hub and made by a great company, but riding on them was like being in a car that had a hole in its exhaust. Just a constant background noise of annoyance. 

Weight for me isn't a big issue as I ride a fat bike and just spin my way on climbs. I'm not looking to be the fastest guy up to the top

Durability is a huge issue for me. I like how the Onyx are over built. I have been having issues with rear hubs lately. I seem to break freehub bodies and ruin bearings. Stock hubs just don't last and my Hope bearing were notchy within a 100 miles. My i9s were still silky smooth when I pulled them off, so they definitely are durable. And the Onyx are still as smooth as day 1.

Every hub is going to be a compromise of durability, weight, price, engagement, noise. Find the one that checks all the important boxes for you and ride on


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## tehdually (Oct 17, 2012)

I have been running an Onyx proto hub for over a year on my gravel/cross/b-road/whatevermainstreamcallsit. Riding conditions typically consist of mud, dust, rain, and any other condition not listed. I weigh 160lbs and typically average a cadence around 75 rpm; I'm a masher. The Onyx hub has received zero maintenance, hell I don't know how to even pull it apart. There has been no slippage, strange sounds or any change in it's smooth rolling attribute. If anything, it rolls better now after 3500 miles than new. I sent the proto back to Jim today. I hope he posts up his findings of how well the hub fairs with ZERO MAINTENANCE and after experiencing real world riding.

Out with the old, in with the new


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

I'm still pretty happy with mine. I ditched my rattly dropper post for a thomson and now my bike is pretty durn quiet. It's wicked ripping through the woods with only the sound of the tires and wind. Gets weird when you ride with a friend and they can't hear you.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> I hate to say it, but DT are garbage, really there is no pawl hub worth mentioning


That might be one of the most ridiculous statements ever uttered on MTBR, and that's saying a lot.

You don't do your own credibility any favors when calling the DT a 'pawl hub'. Star ratchets have zero in common with pawls.



Nurse Ben said:


> Ratchets break and skip, they wear our, it's just how it is.


*Everything* wears out. Period. With the DT hubs you can swap a new set of ratchets in, trailside, with no tools, in about 90 seconds.

In the last 16 years I've had DT 240s, 340, 440, or 350 hubs on every one of my bikes. That's hundreds of thousands of miles ridden, in all conditions: Colorado and Alaska winters, desert springs and falls, alpine summers, for a decade and a half.

Know how many bearing failures I've had in that time?

One.

Know how many times I've had to replace ratchets trailside in that time?

One.

I sincerely hope Onyx can match that rate of "failure".

I recently built myself an Onyx rear hub, and so far I'm pleased with it. Long term durability is the only thing I question. Which makes me wonder how easy it is to fix, trailside, with no tools...


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

Just had a rear wheel built for the wife on an Onyx hub. Super impressed both with the product and the customer service. Not that my King hubs have been unsatisfying. The one thing I really noticed about the quiet of the Onyx is that it makes adjusting the brake calipers to avoid rub super easy. The noise of the small rubs does not get drown out by the clicking.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

Just in case you guys have not seen the available hub colors, here is a link that Jim sent me. You can click on the pics to make them bigger.

Onyx Hub Colors


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

Just received mine from Southern Wheelworks laced to Nox rims. Quick spin around the road, and I really like the smooth rolling and silence. Will get my first ride tonight.


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

Fun thread to read... These hubs sound perfect... But i just have such a hard time getting over the weight penalty.. I know-- its been said a million times.. .But damn 250-300 extra grams just makes me pull back... Now i dont know what to get.. Was all set on i9's.. But after this tread-- its making me wonder... I know 300 grams isnt much.. But its 2/3 of a pound just in hub weight over what the other hubs weigh-- hurts... Time for a carbon free hub shell with very thin steel sheath for the contact points... Has to be some way to get these closer to conventional weights...


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

SB Trails said:


> Fun thread to read... These hubs sound perfect... But i just have such a hard time getting over the weight penalty.. I know-- its been said a million times.. .But damn 250-300 extra grams just makes me pull back... Now i dont know what to get.. Was all set on i9's.. But after this tread-- its making me wonder... I know 300 grams isnt much.. But its 2/3 of a pound just in hub weight over what the other hubs weigh-- hurts... Time for a carbon free hub shell with very thin steel sheath for the contact points... Has to be some way to get these closer to conventional weights...


I hear you.... I have had the same thoughts. I literally had an Onyx and Kappius hub in my hands. One of the heaviest and one of the lightest. Both stellar for several reasons. I went Onyx because of the instant engagement, silence and durability. I haven't looked back really. If I could have the same Ina lighter package, that would be great. However until then, I love the Onyx.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

Plus with Onyx, if you decide to rebuild a wheel in the future and want a different color or hub, they will sell you one at 25 % of retail with trade of your old one. Cool. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

SB Trails said:


> Fun thread to read... These hubs sound perfect... But i just have such a hard time getting over the weight penalty.. I know-- its been said a million times.. .But damn 250-300 extra grams just makes me pull back... Now i dont know what to get.. Was all set on i9's.. But after this tread-- its making me wonder... I know 300 grams isnt much.. But its 2/3 of a pound just in hub weight over what the other hubs weigh-- hurts... Time for a carbon free hub shell with very thin steel sheath for the contact points... Has to be some way to get these closer to conventional weights...


Onyx front hub 219g rear 12x142 center lock 442g. Onyx rear about 100g more weight than Chris King. If you want lighter high engagement look at Project 321 and they also come in Boost as does Onyx.

My Onyx hubs are spinning faster than ever after 4 month of hard riding on the East Coast.


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

Bogeydog... I know just where your coming from... I LOVE instant engagement and thought i liked the lovely buzzzzz of king and i9--- till i got to thinking about this thread and the idea of silent... mmmmm silence..

dgw... i hear you-- if it was only a 100 grams then id be ALL over thie onyx... But its not a 100 grams.. its close to 300 grams... Im looking at the i9's... they are 155 for the front vs 210 onyx and 268 for the rear vs 442.. So a total of 423 for the pair for i9 and 652 for the onyx... that is a 229 difference... and that was with the higest weights i could find for the i9-- would actually be close to 250grams for my setup...

I know guys are going to say-- stop being such a weight bitoch and ride already.. I plan to ride for sure.. But when putting a new bike together its a check and balance for weight vs ride all the way thought in order to end up with right combo... The right combo for hubs is onyx that weights a 100 grams more then i9--- then its a no brainer.. but that just isnt the case... onyx is 3/5 of a lb heaver... One of my goals is to get my bike below 28lbs with + tires (2.8) on it... If i had a 25lb build in mind then a extra 250 grams would be no biggie...


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> My Onyx Tri Helix with turquoise end caps are on the way.!! New Pivot 429sl with green graphics on the way!
> 
> Dustyduke22, any quick riding impressions of the hubs, how does the engagement feel and does the bike coast faster. Can you feel the less drag?


Did you get the "turquoise caps"? I ask because I don't think they offer turquoise in the hub, and at least the caps might be an alternative for us Yeti's!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Simplemind said:


> Did you get the "turquoise caps"? I ask because I don't think they offer turquoise in the hub, and at least the caps might be an alternative for us Yeti's!


No, I ended up with black end caps but I think Onyx will do any color. Give them a call!!


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

After my recent discovery w/t my I9 fat bike rear hub and excessive axle flex that is occuring, I might just hit up onyx after all.


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## wooly88 (Sep 1, 2009)

Two new wheelsets this past two weeks. Santa was great to me this year.

Derby's laced to gold Kings purchased directly from Ray at Derby. Great guy.










Nox Teocalli's laced to Antifreeze Onyx hubs via CX Ray's from Dusty at Hubsessed wheels. Another great guy!










We're lucky to have so many great builders on the forum.

Wooly


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## TheUnknownRider (Oct 2, 2015)

Not just the weight, but the cost too. Couldn't be happier on hubs bought from the sponsor of this forum area ....


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

Wolly-- two great looking bikes-- but that ibis blue with those wheels is a knockout for sure..


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## bogeydog (Apr 13, 2015)

I only uses Onyx for the rear. Kept DT front. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

I finally found a problem w/the Onyx hubs.

They're too low friction. They roll too freely.

My wifes hub has been windmilling on the rack and rubbing the carbon frame on my bike. I've taken to taping her crank arms to the frame to keep them from moving.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

I have 4 rides on mine now. 100% satisfied so far and all my other bikes feel like junk now. Not feeling the "clunk" when pedaling anymore really improves the enjoyment of the ride for me. These also spin very fast. I guess I was used to a slight amount of drag, but I found myself overshooting a few corners at first due to the bike not really loosing any speed when coasting in to corners. My bike is also totally silent now except for tire noise. Night rides are more fun and it's nice to able to have conversations while on easy group rides and not hearing the loud buzz of my old hubs.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

coke said:


> I have 4 rides on mine now. 100% satisfied so far and all my other bikes feel like junk now. Not feeling the "clunk" when pedaling anymore really improves the enjoyment of the ride for me. These also spin very fast. I guess I was used to a slight amount of drag, but I found myself overshooting a few corners at first due to the bike not really loosing any speed when coasting in to corners. My bike is also totally silent now except for tire noise. Night rides are more fun and it's nice to able to have conversations while on easy group rides and not hearing the loud buzz of my old hubs.
> 
> View attachment 1040737
> 
> ...


Awesome looking bike. Pink anodized?


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

dustyduke22 said:


> Awesome looking bike. Pink anodized?


Thanks! Yes they are pink. Not sure if onyx has more than one version of pink though.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

coke said:


> These also spin very fast. I guess I was used to a slight amount of drag, but I found myself overshooting a few corners at first due to the bike not really loosing any speed when coasting in to corners.


haha...you've got a bad case of the placebo effects!


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> haha...you've got a bad case of the placebo effects!


Previous wheels were Roval Traverse Fattie SL with 54t ratchets. The rear had a lot of resistance and the difference between those wheels and the new is noticeable. If you've ever ridden a bike that had a very slight amount of brake rub and then adjusted the brakes or trued the rotor, it's a similar experience.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

jonshonda said:


> haha...you've got a bad case of the placebo effects!


Have you ever ridden an Onyx hub?

Of all the hubs I have had the pleasure to build and own, nothing spins like an Onyx.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

dustyduke22 said:


> Have you ever ridden an Onyx hub?
> 
> Of all the hubs I have had the pleasure to build and own, nothing spins like an Onyx.


Yes, they spin fairly freely.

To say that that and that alone could account for overcooking corners is a pretty big stretch. Just doesn't work that way.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Yes, they spin fairly freely.
> 
> To say that that and that alone could account for overcooking corners is a pretty big stretch. Just doesn't work that way.


Just remembered that I did add some slightly heavier tires. Probably had an impact on momentum. The hubs do roll smoother than anything I've ever ridden though. This past year I had 5 different tire combinations on the roval wheels, and didn't experience anything like this.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

mikesee said:


> Yes, they spin fairly freely.
> 
> To say that that and that alone could account for overcooking corners is a pretty big stretch. Just doesn't work that way.


Respect!! Dustyduke, if you didn't build soo many cool wheels I would answer differently, but you cool w/ me. I hope to have Onyx one day and experience the lack of drag, but if you ever catch me claiming that I was going to hot into corners because of them, please call the amberlamps cuz I done hit a tree going into said corner too hot.

coke, that is a sweet bike btw. :thumbsup:


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

Its hard to imagine a hub that rolls so easily that it messes up your timing. 

But at the same time when you spin this wheel in the stand, you notice after about 3 beats that its not slowing down as fast as it should. With most hubs they will slow to a certain point and then quickly decelerate to a stop. The Onyx hubs just go slower and slower without the steep deceleration and often roll back till the valve stem is down. This behavior in the stand just feels viscerally different and wrong. I don't know why I would be any less susceptible to having my gut feeling of timing violated on the trail than on the shop stand. 

Also, as I posted previously, when I put my wife's onyx hub on the rack the damm thing rotates the pedals around on its own (centripetal force or windmilling) till her flat pin pedals start scratching my carbon frame. Again, real world behavior that suggests the hub has enough less friction to do things differently than you'd expect. 

I'd love it if the guys that do the empirical testing and comparison of race tire rolling resistance ran some tests on onyx hubs.


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## mikkosan (Jun 26, 2009)

Hehe funny thing you mentioned the cranks spinning in the rack.

I don't own an Onyx, but i do own a Stealth hub. Same thing happens to me. Postition my crank to place it on my roof rack. By the time I get home, the cranks always spin so that it blocks the rack. 

Love these fast engagement drag free hubs. Want to try an Onyx one day if the Stealth hub would choose to die on me


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

mikkosan said:


> Hehe funny thing you mentioned the cranks spinning in the rack.
> 
> I don't own an Onyx, but i do own a Stealth hub. Same thing happens to me. Postition my crank to place it on my roof rack. By the time I get home, the cranks always spin so that it blocks the rack.
> 
> Love these fast engagement drag free hubs. Want to try an Onyx one day if the Stealth hub would choose to die on me


Chris King boost hubs with centerlock coming in the spring. Looks like they will be lighter than ever. Nice!


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

So I drank the Onyx koolaid for my fatbike, as I have already blown up:hope, 9:ZERO:7, and I9.

I was considering going back to a fat bike that would accept 135mm hubs so I could run Chris King, but a good friend convinced me to try the Onyx stuff.

I only have one ride in, but so far so good. They are quiet enough that you KNOW if your rear brake is rubbing! haha

I will post updates if they are required.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Yeah instant hubs are really nice. I've been on my tps now for about 2 years. at first I was completely blown away how quickly they locked up. But now its just the way it always is  I guess you get spoiled with some hubs.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> So I drank the Onyx koolaid for my fatbike


Glad to see a fellow hub destroyer pull the trigger before I did  I've been lusting over a 170 rear Onyx for my Muk.


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

jonshonda said:


> I only have one ride in, but so far so good. They are quiet enough that you KNOW if your rear brake is rubbing! haha
> 
> View attachment 1049122


That's another funny thing...

My High School racer son....you can't bribe him to check his tire pressure, lube the chain, wash the bike....but since he got an Onyx he's become a brake caliper adjusting fiend. Event the smallest rotor rub has him getting out the 5mil to set things right.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

Metamorphic said:


> That's another funny thing...
> 
> My High School racer son....you can't bribe him to check his tire pressure, lube the chain, wash the bike....but since he got an Onyx he's become a brake caliper adjusting fiend. Event the smallest rotor rub has him getting out the 5mil to set things right.


I'm on a rigid singlespeed, which I thought was completely silent until I got the onyx hubs. I had to buy a brake cable separator because I could hear them bounce together after switching hubs. Also have to clean and oil the chain more often now


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

*Rigid SS*

Does you SS have Onyx SS specific hubs?


coke said:


> I'm on a rigid singlespeed, which I thought was completely silent until I got the onyx hubs. I had to buy a brake cable separator because I could hear them bounce together after switching hubs. Also have to clean and oil the chain more often now


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

*Freewheel drag*

Just got a wheelset with an Onyx rear hub and can't wait to get the tires in and set up. However I noticed that just spinning the free wheel there is quite a bit of drag and there is a subtle "shush" noise like skies on snow. Is that normal and does it go away?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Its the bearings you are hearing, probably (and maybe the seals, and maybe maybe the mechanism). My tps were just the same when new. Also the freehub has too low mass to be able to spin freely if the hub is sealed properly, which it most likely is. The drag will be close to non existent while actually riding the wheels, just like pretty much all wheels...


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

hardmtnbiker said:


> Does you SS have Onyx SS specific hubs?


Yes


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Yes, the shush sound is normal and you won't notice it behind the sound of tires when riding.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Thanks guys, and yes now that they're on the bike I hear a lot of other things that I never heard before, like jockey wheels, knobs on pavement, cables rattling!:lol:


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## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

You might also need to adjust the bearing preload.


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## Derp (Aug 20, 2013)

I'm getting a set of the new Nobl 33mm outer carbon rims built on Onyx hubs. After feeling how precise those are, I was shocked that hubs could be that good. They make everything else seem like junk.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Derp said:


> I was shocked that hubs could be that good. They make everything else seem like junk.


Well, I'd say they are in one league with True Precision and Chris King. They are a later design though, and strike finer compromises than predecessors.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Also the king and the tp is designed by the same person.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

And I think they designed CK first, then TP.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

most likely


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

car bone said:


> Also the king and the tp is designed by the same person.


Really? I've never seen anything written about the designer. Who is it?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

92gli said:


> Really? I've never seen anything written about the designer. Who is it?


I have remained quiet until today, it is I...jonshonda! I am the designer.

But because I haven't designed a 197mm hub yet, I use Onyx!


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Getting ready to build a new wheel set but I need lighter hubs, Jim anything to share with us about lighter hubs? My 6 month old Onyx hubs are perfect, spin even better than new.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

dgw7000 said:


> Getting ready to build a new wheel set but I need lighter hubs, Jim anything to share with us about lighter hubs? My 6 month old Onyx hubs are perfect, spin even better than new.


You don't "need" lighter hubs


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## OriginalDonk (Jul 8, 2009)

dgw7000 said:


> Getting ready to build a new wheel set but I need lighter hubs, Jim anything to share with us about lighter hubs? My 6 month old Onyx hubs are perfect, spin even better than new.


Why do you "need" lighter hubs? Are the hubs holding you back? If you want light, get some DT180s with ceramic bearings or save weight toward the wheel's radius with lighter rims or tires.

You're trading instant engagement for a bit more weight. Looking at the mechanism it doesn't look like there's a whole lot of places to shave a few grams.

I'd like my hubshell and engagement mechanisms to be reliable and mechanically sound.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

dgw7000 said:


> Getting ready to build a new wheel set but I need lighter hubs, Jim anything to share with us about lighter hubs? My 6 month old Onyx hubs are perfect, spin even better than new.


Weight weenies, ruining the reliability and durability of bike products since bikes became popular.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I know what I want!! I want lighter Onyx hubs. Dammit !!


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Alas, not possible without Unobtainium. Let's enjoy heavy, silent, reliable hubs.


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## OriginalDonk (Jul 8, 2009)

Well if Onyx was going to drop some weight they'd probably do it first in their road hubs as other manufacturers have done (e.g. Chris King's R45, I9's Road Hubs). You gotta figure that both Onyx and True Precision have looked at trying to achieve weight savings as some people (not naming names here :eekster may not buy their hubs solely because of about 100 grams. 

Looks to me like they've decided that while their sales may increase, the materials strength and engineering trade offs may adversely impact their reliability and associated reputation. 

The last thing I want is to send it on my 160mm all mountain bike and have spokes pull through a hub shell machined a bit thinner to knock off 20 grams. 

Good to know that you know what you want. I want the opposite so we're net neutral :thumbsup:.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Sasquatch1413 said:


> Weight weenies, ruining the reliability and durability of bike products since bikes became popular.


I have close to 35,000 miles on one set of DT 240s.

They weigh about half of what the Onyx hubs do. They used to be attached to much heavier, smaller rims, on my DH bike.

Oh, and I bought them used. I haven't changed the bearings within the hub shell yet. I pry the seals off once a year and re-lube them.

I'm not sure why people equate heavy with strong. Perhaps "under-engineered" might be a better descriptor.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

You can't drop weight from the tp's. the hub shell needs to be thick to be strong when the rollers move outwards, and the freehubs needs to be steel since its part of the mech. the rollers roll on the freehub on a polished cylindrical surface.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> I have close to 35,000 miles on one set of DT 240s.
> 
> They weigh about half of what the Onyx hubs do. They used to be attached to much heavier, smaller rims, on my Giant Glory DH.
> 
> ...


pretty much all hardened steel will be stronger than alu. alu tops out at maybe 5-600 MPa UTS (not yeild) for expensive varieties like 7000 series (non weldable) and about 300-350Mpa for 6000 and 2000 series. Steel tops out at 6000MPa for hss types and maybe 2000 for weldable (ie not requiring preheat and postheat to not crack while cooling) types. Carbon is about 600MPa at best. Ti is about 1000MPa for 6al4v and 3al2,5v is a bit lower. Beta Ti is about 15-1700Mpa or so.

Questions?


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

The place to save weight is the steel free hub body, Ti like Hadley is the way to go. I have a 8 year old Hadley hub and the freehub is perfect.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

you can't do that if the freehub is part of the mech.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

car bone said:


> pretty much all hardened steel will be stronger than alu. alu tops out at maybe 5-600 MPa UTS (not yeild) for expensive varieties like 7000 series (non weldable) and about 300-350Mpa for 6000 and 2000 series. Steel tops out at 6000MPa for hss types and maybe 2000 for weldable (ie not requiring preheat and postheat to not crack while cooling) types. Carbon is about 600MPa at best. Ti is about 1000MPa for 6al4v and 3al2,5v is a bit lower. Beta Ti is about 15-1700Mpa or so.
> 
> Questions?


That's all fine and dandy.

I provided a pretty typical, commonplace example of a product that regularly defies his "logic". A ~230-250g rear hub is not lacking in reliability or durability if properly designed.

There are plenty of WC DH and XC pros, and EWS racers running the exact same "weight weenie" hubs. Winning on them, too. Haven't seen or heard of any of them suffering hub explosions.

Matter of fact, look at the last picture and caption here:

Inside DT Swiss - Pinkbike


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I can tell you that a dt 240 freehub in alu weighs abut 55g or so and the steel one weighs 112g. and then there's the axle. Its alu too and not very beefy Imo. Its not a miracle hub by any means. I'm gonna build as pair up next week.

A dt 240s rear, with steel freehub and 6bolt, 135 qr is 310g. What it is not however is INSTANT engagement. Since you cant make instant engagement with this design. Its a clever design though, but it is what it is. 

You're not gonna make an instant hub much lighter than 500g and expect it to last. Yeah maybe make the hubshell out of beta ti and save 50% there, and the freehubs out of hss and save 50% there by making it half as thick or something. and then make the axle out of sleeved mg in a hss shell for stiffness. and save 50% there too. 

But then the hubs cost ~1-2k just to make. And it wont be any more reliable. At most just the same reliablility.


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## Jim Gerhardt (Jan 16, 2015)

dgw7000 said:


> Getting ready to build a new wheel set but I need lighter hubs, Jim anything to share with us about lighter hubs? My 6 month old Onyx hubs are perfect, spin even better than new.


Sorry guys, I have to bite my tongue for a little bit longer, specifically until mid-April! ;^)


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

plz done make these ballerina lite..


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

car bone said:


> Yeah maybe make the hubshell out of beta ti and save 50% there


Oh I thought you meant it would be nice to make the shell out of Ti without any other design changes. That would make the hub heavier, but also, hopefully, prevent fatigue/stress corrosion flange cracking. Essentially a forever shell.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Yeah it will by several 1000% most likely but if you want to make it half as heavy yet just as strong you have to resort to exotic materials and heat treatments most likely. and obviously reducing stock thickness to the max.


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## Jonesy22 (Mar 21, 2011)

Love mine but was surprised by the weight compared to the I9's I had previously on it.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Jim Gerhardt said:


> Sorry guys, I have to bite my tongue for a little bit longer, specifically until mid-April! ;^)


So sounds like I may wait to see what Jim has up his sleeve. Building a new 2016 Trek Fuel EX 9.9 29er so will need boost hubs. This bike will be under 24lbs.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

dgw7000 said:


> So sounds like I may wait to see what Jim has up his sleeve. Building a new 2016 Trek Fuel EX 9.9 29er so will need boost hubs. This bike will be under 24lbs.


Off topic, but a friend just finished a full 9.9 build. 23 lbs. 9 oz. Beautiful bike. Will be fun to see how he likes it once the trails open here.


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## SB666 (Aug 12, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> I have remained quiet until today, it is I...jonshonda! I am the designer.
> 
> But because I haven't designed a 197mm hub yet, I use Onyx!
> 
> View attachment 1050257


The guy who designed the Chris King hub uses Onyx hubs??? Am I missing something or is this the best endorsement of all time?


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

The answer is the NOBL wheels version of the Onyx Racing hub. I have always been a CK fanboi but the fact is DT Swiss did a better job with easier maintenance at a lighter weight for cheaper (DT240S) than CK for years and now NOBL have a hub that just out does them all. To quote the HIghlander "there can be only one" and it is no longer DT or CK.









They have had the Onyx-Racing design chap do his CAD/ FEA wizardry on the hubs and CNCed a fair bit of material off where it did not need to be and still be massively over built. It is harder to see on my photo but I'll take some more close ups and do an update later.

One test hub has apparently spent about 10000 km on the back of a tandem touring aross North America and is still going strong (apparently tandems destroy rear hubs something I did not know having absolutely no interest in tandems) and I have played with another hub that has been smashed all winter (seven months) by Dustin Adams. 
It was still running super smooth and silent (ceramic bearings) and the engagement was still INSTANT (seriously so amazing that one just keeps playing with the hub/ driver to see if it can be tricked!!).

Apparently the spragg clutch/ ceramic bearing combo is 5% more efficient that other hubs so the slight weight increase is more than compensated for by an efficiency (power) increase.

Also their new driver is about to be released: SOC16: Onyx hubs soon to get a lot lighter w/ prototype alloy freehub bodies for Shimano & SRAM XD - Bikerumor









Essentially they have worked out a way to key/ sleeve an alloy cassette driver into the steel driver barrel (excuse me Mr Onyx if I have the terminology slightly incorrect) that engages with the sprag, rather than have the entire unit made from steel. The biggest weight saving will be to the HG versions (apparently approx 75 grams) but also 45 grams off the XD version.

The redesign has got the weight down to about 360 grams for the XD version and there are another 45 grams to come off with the new driver. So not DT240S territory but an 'extra' 65 grams that I am so not bothered about because of the amazing engagement.

Having received my new TR38 wheels yesterday and wondering if I would really notice the extra weight I am pleasantly surprised that it is almost negigible in the hand and as the weight is not on or at the rim I really do't think it is as much as a factor as worrying about whether Tyre B is worth the additional weight over Tyre A because it is tougher/ grippier etc which are calculations we have all probably made and is where weight should be really taken seriously.

So in summary. Buy NOBL wheels as they are the bomb.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

Can you say how the nobl hubs differ from the factory onyx? The photos suggest the same steel driver.

I can't wait for the alloy driver. I'm going to use it to move to a SRAM cassette, XD driver, and drop about half a pound from the hub I have now (Steel shimano driver with an XT cassette). That should be noticeable, and fix the only complaint I have with the onyx hub (weight).


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

sandwich said:


> Can you say how the nobl hubs differ from the factory onyx? The photos suggest the same steel driver.
> 
> I can't wait for the alloy driver. I'm going to use it to move to a SRAM cassette, XD driver, and drop about half a pound from the hub I have now (Steel shimano driver with an XT cassette). That should be noticeable, and fix the only complaint I have with the onyx hub (weight).


Same guts, different hub shell

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

sandwich said:


> Can you say how the nobl hubs differ from the factory onyx? The photos suggest the same steel driver.
> 
> I can't wait for the alloy driver. I'm going to use it to move to a SRAM cassette, XD driver, and drop about half a pound from the hub I have now (Steel shimano driver with an XT cassette). That should be noticeable, and fix the only complaint I have with the onyx hub (weight).


Sorry thought I was pretty clear "They have had the Onyx-Racing design chap do his CAD/ FEA wizardry on the hubs and CNCed a fair bit of material off where it did not need to be and still be massively over built."

The wavy edge to the hub flanges, material taken out of the ISO6 disc mount, the curved barrel/ body to the hub shell are immediately apparent when looking at the hub. I think the HG weight change is 461 to 400 grams (but I might be slightly out there as I have had a lot of conversations about the hubs over the last few weeks and mainly not really been listening as I have been too distracted playing with the driver/ spragg clutch)

I personally (as a non engineer) think there is potentially a version 4 in the design (Version 1 is the current Onyx Racing hub, Version 2 is the NOBL shell with current driver and Version 3 is NOBL shell and new lighter sleeved driver) as I think there are areas that they could shave more material off the hub shell and flanges and still have a near indestructible hub. But this is a big step for Onyx-Racing working with NOBL to refine their design as they have always been of a "bomber build and zero failure is better than light weight" mentality as far as I can tell.


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## 608566 (Mar 28, 2012)

This is a great thread. I am curious though I don't get how the sprag design could possibly have less resistance then the roller bearings in the True Precision. It would appear to me that the sprag's have to literally drag on the inner and outer race. There is lots of description of float or something. But I can't see how it works from the videos. I am not particularly concerned with free wheel drag. I mean I am right about 260 and I ride a 29+ so I would be quite surprised to notice better coasting. I also mostly ride up then down rather then more XC stuff. I am usually braking or pushing. Looks like Oynx is the real deal. Though TP seems pretty cool as well. I haven't ridden any of the higher end free hub mech. DT but like in 98'. It is also cool there are all these small companies putting out great products like this.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

Is the general opinion that the Onyx hubs are the strongest Fatbike hubs available? I am a big guy riding with a 197mmx12mm rear hub, and would like to upgrade, but just once. 

And a second question, what are the "Widgets" the Onyx website refers to? It looks like you pick a color for the hub, then a color for the "widgets," whatever that might be.

Any help from the group?


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

WhiskeyJr said:


> Is the general opinion that the Onyx hubs are the strongest Fatbike hubs available? I am a big guy riding with a 197mmx12mm rear hub, and would like to upgrade, but just once.
> 
> And a second question, what are the "Widgets" the Onyx website refers to? It looks like you pick a color for the hub, then a color for the "widgets," whatever that might be.
> 
> Any help from the group?


Yessir

Wigits are the pieces that attach the axle to the hub. Consists of the 2 end caps and lock ring.

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

If you want a cassette and derailleur set up then yes to Onyx for fat bike hub. If you want 10,000 km of bomb proof almost zero maintenance then Rolhoff geared hub.


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## mopes (Mar 8, 2011)

Anyone know if the new drivers are shipping with hubs yet?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> If you want a cassette and derailleur set up then yes to Onyx for fat bike hub. If you want 10,000 km of bomb proof almost zero maintenance then Rolhoff geared hub.


haha, bombproof? Maybe if you never shift under any load what-so-ever and don't mind dropping wayy too much money on a boat anchor, then yes....the Rolhoff might be a great idea.

Rolhoff is a bad idea for mtnbiking imho, not bad for a mix of touring n such.


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

Can anybody tell me if pricing on Onyx hubs is fixed for all vendors, or is there any wiggle room on cost? I like everything I hear about the fat bike hubs but they're definitely an investment! Thanks


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

awai04 said:


> Can anybody tell me if pricing on Onyx hubs is fixed for all vendors, or is there any wiggle room on cost? I like everything I hear about the fat bike hubs but they're definitely an investment! Thanks


I use Dave at Speed Dreams, he will save you some money on his wheel builds, I now have 5 sets of carbon 29er wheels 3 that he built. My Derby/Onyx are the heaviest my far, but they are also the smoothest.

I have Hadley/Light Bicycles 32 hole, Onyx/Derby 32 hole 35mm wide, Project 321 boost hubs on NOX 32mm rims 28 hole, Race wheels Dt Swiss 350 straight pull 28 hole with LB 27mm wide carbon rims and a brand new set of DT Swiss 240 front boost and rear 12x142 with 30mm Light Bicycles 28 hole. The 240 hubes are really nice and weight in my opinion does matter especially in the wheels on 29er. All the wheels use Sapim CX Ray spokes except the 1st set with the Hadley hubs that have the Sapim Laser spokes.

For a modern day 29er there is no reason to build a heavy bike in my opinion so many choices. Wheels shown are 1438g with tape and valves, 30mm wide. Race set with 27mm wide LB rims 1376g and Onyx/Derby 1910g. 35mm wide.

Going with this wheel set I was able to build a killer bike at 22.81 lbs!! DT Swiss 240 hubs with labels removed.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

awai04 said:


> Can anybody tell me if pricing on Onyx hubs is fixed for all vendors, or is there any wiggle room on cost? I like everything I hear about the fat bike hubs but they're definitely an investment! Thanks


They are really good. If you pair them with LB or Nextie carbon rims and throw some vee Chicane tires on tubeless around 20 psi for the summer it pretty much turns your fat bike into a road bike. Super smooth.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Welp, i was going to order a 350 big ride 177 hub for my farley but i wanted to match the cyan/turquose front hub. I was thinking of getting a black dt front hub to match then i was like f it once i seen onyx can do any colour you want. They are spendy, but alot better than blowing your free hub twice a winter and having to limp or walk home in the cold.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

awai04 said:


> Can anybody tell me if pricing on Onyx hubs is fixed for all vendors, or is there any wiggle room on cost? I like everything I hear about the fat bike hubs but they're definitely an investment! Thanks


Universal Cycles VIP15 for 15% off.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

From the MTB hub disassembly videos on youtube, looks like there are only 3 bearings in the hub? One inside the freehub body that the axle rides on, one in the main hub shell that the freehub body rides on, and one on the brake side of the main hub shell that the axle rides on? Is the brake side of the freehub body supported by a bearing? Wondering if there is a 4th bearing inside the main hub shell that they don't show removing. 

Is this very crude drawing correct?


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

I just blew the 3rd mtb hub this season. Its a joke, if i get this onyx hub is it going to be dt swiss ratchet durable?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

MostChillin said:


> Thanks for the that.
> 
> Just curious of you have tried on the Onyx hubs at Universal. I ask because it states they do not allow coupons or price matching on Onyx.
> 
> Thanks again.


I don't think they do on the front hub, but the rear hub 197mm I tried works just fine.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

Sasquatch1413 said:


> From the MTB hub disassembly videos on youtube, looks like there are only 3 bearings in the hub? One inside the freehub body that the axle rides on, one in the main hub shell that the freehub body rides on, and one on the brake side of the main hub shell that the axle rides on? Is the brake side of the freehub body supported by a bearing? Wondering if there is a 4th bearing inside the main hub shell that they don't show removing.
> 
> Is this very crude drawing correct?


No, you are missing the bearing inside the hub shell that supports the inside nose of the driver body. Also, the axle bearing inside the driver body is shown too far in, it should be shown at the outside end of the driver body. 4 bearings total, 2 function as axle bearings and 2 function as driver support bearings.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

solarplex said:


> I just blew the 3rd mtb hub this season. Its a joke, if i get this onyx hub is it going to be dt swiss ratchet durable?


I have over a full year on mine now and they have been perfect, they feel just as smooth and solid as day one. First year that I have gone without any hub problems in... longer than I can remember.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> I have over a full year on mine now and they have been perfect, they feel just as smooth and solid as day one. First year that I have gone without any hub problems in... longer than I can remember.


That great to hear, ever had issues with dt swiss hubs?


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

I've had issues with cheaper ratchet style hubs skipping when doing trials moves that involve high amounts of torque (pedal punches, pedal kicks, etc), been running the onyx hubs on all my bikes for over a year with no issues. Still as smooth as day one.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

solarplex said:


> That great to hear, ever had issues with dt swiss hubs?


Nope, but I have very little time on dt Swiss hubs. I was looking for something bulletproof with good engagement when I decided to get the Onyx hubs. From what I have seen, dt Swiss is good but not the best in both categories. So far the Onyx hubs are perfect in both. And the silence and smoothness are great bonus features.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Nope, but I have very little time on dt Swiss hubs. I was looking for something bulletproof with good engagement when I decided to get the Onyx hubs. From what I have seen, dt Swiss is good but not the best in both categories. So far the Onyx hubs are perfect in both. And the silence and smoothness are great bonus features.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk


Awesome. Well its about $650 for a rear hub to my door canadian and they will match my turquoise front. All i care about is no breaking my freehub. Sick of not being able to ride waiting on parts


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

solarplex said:


> Awesome. Well its about $650 for a rear hub to my door canadian and they will match my turquoise front. All i care about is no breaking my freehub. Sick of not being able to ride waiting on parts


Glad it's working. Keep spares!


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## kopavi (Jan 11, 2013)

*Lighter Freehubs Available in 2 weeks*

Received an email today (7/12/16) from Onyx indicating:

_The new alloy freehubs will be available in two weeks. Currently they are an optional item and will need to be specified when ordering by the shop/wheelbuilder doing the ordering.

The new alloy freehub body will add $25.00 to the rear cost. If you have a hub and want to upgrade to the alloy freehub then the cost is $125.00. These prices are retail._

I also asked about the newer Helix option as shown below and if was more likely to accumulate debris than the solid hub.

View attachment 1081626
View attachment 1081627


_The main difference between the helix and solid is appearance. Dust does settle on the inside of the hub. Gunk like mud would get inside but the force of the wheel spinning usually keeps the hub cleaner. 
_

Does anyone here have experience with the Helix version that could give it a thumbs up or down?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

I don't have one, and my front hub generally doesn't get that wet, but it just doesn't seem like a smart thing for a mountain bike. I'd do it for road or bmx hubs though.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

solarplex said:


> Awesome. Well its about $650 for a rear hub to my door canadian and they will match my turquoise front. All i care about is no breaking my freehub. Sick of not being able to ride waiting on parts


If you have the power to shear a steel billet "axle" that is about 20-22mm diameter with 4-5mm thick walls (just guessing because I have not measured it but it is quite a chunk of metal hence the higher rear hub weight and why NOBL have had Onyx FEA and manufacture a slimmer version of the hub and encouraged them to come up with the new style keyed/ steel sleeved aluminium freehub) then you might need to worry about breaking the freehub.

See the second photo in post #328 on previous page (King Hubs vs Oynx Racing Hubs - Page 14- Mtbr.com). The right hand one is the current model which is one solid chunk of hardened steel. The whole shebang spins inside the hub rather than a freehub spinning externally to the hub on some bearings and pawls around the axle. The left hand one is the newer lighter version where they have worked out how to key a steel sleeve over an alloy assembly.

You will break every other part on your bike and both your legs before you break the freehub. You might wear out the bearings but that is a maintenance factor for the owner of every hub.


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## sandwich (Sep 24, 2005)

kopavi said:


> Received an email today (7/12/16) from Onyx indicating:
> 
> _The new alloy freehubs will be available in two weeks. Currently they are an optional item and will need to be specified when ordering by the shop/wheelbuilder doing the ordering.
> 
> The new alloy freehub body will add $25.00 to the rear cost. If you have a hub and want to upgrade to the alloy freehub then the cost is $125.00. These prices are retail._


hmm, that's kind of a bummer. I was hoping to get the alloy xd driver and a sram cassette to drop half a pound from the rear wheel, but 125 is a lot, on top of the 200 the cassette will cost. I suppose I shouldn't have expected it to be cheap, but a $25 upgrade on a new hub seems so cheap compared to those of us that already bought in...


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

sandwich said:


> hmm, that's kind of a bummer. I was hoping to get the alloy xd driver and a sram cassette to drop half a pound from the rear wheel, but 125 is a lot, on top of the 200 the cassette will cost. I suppose I shouldn't have expected it to be cheap, but a $25 upgrade on a new hub seems so cheap compared to those of us that already bought in...


 when I switched my chris king shimano compatible driver to a xd driver it was $170 bucks for the part , so it seems like a fair price to me


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

sandwich said:


> hmm, that's kind of a bummer. I was hoping to get the alloy xd driver and a sram cassette to drop half a pound from the rear wheel, but 125 is a lot, on top of the 200 the cassette will cost. I suppose I shouldn't have expected it to be cheap, but a $25 upgrade on a new hub seems so cheap compared to those of us that already bought in...


It's $25 on a new hub as an option. You don't get two freehubs. Of course it's more if you just want another freehub in addition to the one you already bought


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## SB666 (Aug 12, 2014)

If there are any Onyx owners on this thread currently with a steel XD driver than intend to swap out for the new lightweight driver, let me know if you want to sell me your steel driver! I am currently on an HG cassette/driver and looking to convert to XD and keep it on a low budget... Onyx will sell me the driver for a fair price but figured if there are used ones floating around out there it's worth a shot!


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

AndrewBikeGuide said:


> The answer is the NOBL wheels version of the Onyx Racing hub. I have always been a CK fanboi but the fact is DT Swiss did a better job with easier maintenance at a lighter weight for cheaper (DT240S) than CK for years and now NOBL have a hub that just out does them all. To quote the HIghlander "there can be only one" and it is no longer DT or CK.
> 
> They have had the Onyx-Racing design chap do his CAD/ FEA wizardry on the hubs and CNCed a fair bit of material off where it did not need to be and still be massively over built. It is harder to see on my photo but I'll take some more close ups and do an update later.
> 
> ...


The issue with the NOBL hubs is no Centre Lock hub options. (Would be a further weight reduction). As a CDN I'd likely place an order for a complete wheel set as the pricing looks attractive. It looks less attractive if one was to buy the hubs separately.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

dt has centerlock.


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

PUNKY said:


> The issue with the NOBL hubs is no Centre Lock hub options. (Would be a further weight reduction). As a CDN I'd likely place an order for a complete wheel set as the pricing looks attractive. It looks less attractive if one was to buy the hubs separately.


NOBL are only just on their second or third batch of hubs as they develop their (awesome) product and generate interest in a competitive market. As one can tell just looking around anywhere lots of bikes are gathered (other than an XC race) centre lock has just not really taken off in the general market.

The weight savings over six bolt don't really justify the pfaff of having another niche product that can be a PIA to replace especially when away racing or adventuring. Not that their development decisions make any impact on my part choices but SRAM have chosen to ignore CL which also impacts the market.

Would I run CL if I could? Yes as I would love to run RT-99 Freeza rotors. Did I run CL when I was running DT hubs? No, because of all the reasons above and it was harder to get the hubs to build the wheel set and harder to get spares.

I have CL on my XTR wheelset as they are XTR hubs and I have not had any of the lock ring loosening problems that are relatively commonly reported by CL users.

I would email Dustin at NOBL as if there is enough demand they might add some hubsets to a production run. It should not be too hard as Onyx Racing already has the CAD for a CL hub. I would buy a set if they made them.

Overall as things stand today I will run NOBL hubs over anything else with 6 bolt ISO discs and their slightly heavier weight as they are just that much better than anything else out there.

Happy trails.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Have you tried True precision?? they made this very same concept about 15 years ago. is onyx better than TP?? who knows?


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

I considered them in 2005 or 2006 but 580 grams for a rear hub ended that idea. No Boost, no centre lock, no distributorship or product support in most countries in the world other than the USA so short answer is I read about them and discounted them as a viable option in about 12 seconds. But I see that they have got the weight down to 496 grams, answer is still going to be no.

I am sure that they will be good if the entire product dynamic supports your buying-riding decision cycle.

For me NOBL is a. lighter than Onyx-Racing (and or True Precision); b. leading the development on making the hub lighter and more efficient; and c. 35 minutes from my house (and right next to trails that I ride once per month so I am going past anyway), if anything should go wrong.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

car bone said:


> dt has centerlock.


Own a pair of 240S CLs, 240S IS6, 350 IS6, Giant branded 240S non-disc road wheel set and Hope Pro 3 Evo



AndrewBikeGuide said:


> NOBL are only just on their second or third batch of hubs as they develop their (awesome) product and generate interest in a competitive market. As one can tell just looking around anywhere lots of bikes are gathered (other than an XC race) centre lock has just not really taken off in the general market.
> 
> The weight savings over six bolt don't really justify the pfaff of having another niche product that can be a PIA to replace especially when away racing or adventuring. Not that their development decisions make any impact on my part choices but SRAM have chosen to ignore CL which also impacts the market.
> 
> ...


I ended up with 240S CLs when I build up a bike. Distributor only had 240S Fifteen hub in CL in stock. Would've needed to wait for them to make a special order in, instead they hooked my shop up with the IS6 adaptors.

Like yourself I never had issue with rotors coming loose running IS6 hubs and adaptors or with CL rotors. I also torque the lock-ring to spec and use anti-seize paste upon assembly. I don't really understand the issues people have as the CL assembly should tighten further as one uses their brakes. Last time I did the brakes on my bikes (bleed, pad change, deglaze rotors) I realized how great only undoing two fittings compared to twelve is. Add to the fact that CL rotors attach with multiple points of contact instead of six.

Once I abandoned SRAM X.0 brakes in favour of XTR Trails I went to CL rotors. I now run a 180mm Freeza front/160mm IceTec rear (Freeza wasn't around when I went to XTR brakes, needed a 180mm rotor when I went to a 36 RC2.) The largest issue with the Fifteen CL hub is it isn't convertible to 20mm.  Although Rude and Graves had and have no issue running 15mm front axles with 28 spoke front wheels so maybe I should just quit whining.

I'd argue that we'll start seeing more CL hubs/rotors as more complete bikes are being stocked with DT Swiss wheel sets such as the Troy and Genius LT 700. Not to mention discs on road bikes is becoming more common. A few years ago a friend mentioned that "No good hubs come in CL" That doesn't really hold true any longer when DT, Onyx and now C.King have CL hubs. But to counter his point, I never really found I9 or Hope hubs to be high-end minus the ano colour ways.

I'll send Dustin an email about the CL hubs. Either way I'm fairly set on Onyx hubs for this next build. (That CDN peso exchange rate at the moment.) The hubs will be the most exotic part of an otherwise bland custom build.

Thanks


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

I think 6 bolt attachment is superior to CL in all ways except convenience. It's designed to be held together, without relative motion of parts, without regard to direction of load applied (clockwise or counterclockwise), by rotor/hub friction and not the bolts themselves.

CL is better for when you have to have a 2-piece rotor (BTW, any weight saved on hub shell vs 6-bolt is gained back, with interest, on the typical aluminum spider), and you mostly apply braking force in one direction. Neither the CL interface, nor 2-piece rotors (play develops in rivet joints) like bidirectional braking forces in the long run.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

car bone said:


> Have you tried True precision?? they made this very same concept about 15 years ago. is onyx better than TP?? who knows?


Similar for sure, but distinctly not the very same concept. It has been a while since I had my hands on a TP hub, but I don't recall ever feeling a hub as smooth and free-spinning as my Onyx. I believe the Onyx Racing sprag clutch is superior to the roller clutch of TP, but opinions may certainly vary. It would be interesting to compare them directly, but my money will remain on Onyx based on my experience riding them for over a year now.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> Similar for sure, but distinctly not the very same concept. It has been a while since I had my hands on a TP hub, but I don't recall ever feeling a hub as smooth and free-spinning as my Onyx. I believe the Onyx Racing sprag clutch is superior to the roller clutch of TP, but opinions may certainly vary. It would be interesting to compare them directly, but my money will remain on Onyx based on my experience riding them for over a year now.


I think its the same ****. Am I wrong here?


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

car bone said:


> I think its the same ****. Am I wrong here?


This has all been covered before, but you be the judge.

Roller Clutch

Sprag Clutch

The roller clutch example is not quite the same setup as Stealth uses, their ramps are on the outside and the inner race is smooth, so it is sort of the reverse of the video, and they use many more, smaller rollers than depicted. But it is the same idea, rollers on ramps with little springs.

I don't think Stealth makes a bad hub, they have plenty of loyal users. If Onyx was for some reason not available I would probably go with Stealth for my next wheelset now that I am basically addicted to the silent/instant style of hub. But I do think sprags are a better solution to the problem, they appear to be the more elegant and simpler design. In other applications such as automotive transmissions they are generally considered superior and of course I am probably biased as an Onyx owner.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

I just wish Onyx had 6061 forged hub shells.. have no trust in 7xxx alloys under tension because of stress corrosion cracking. (would be glad to be wrong on this)


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

J. Random Psycho said:


> I just wish Onyx had 6061 forged hub shells.. have no trust in 7xxx alloys under tension because of stress corrosion cracking. (would be glad to be wrong on this)


These guys have been in the BMX world for a long time, they are just new to the MTB scene. Ask some of those BMX fellas what they think of their hubs.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

I'd think BMX racers don't get water on their hubs as often as MTB riders though.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

car bone said:


> I think its the same ****. Am I wrong here?


How many threads do you need to discuss this in for it to stick?


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

I just got my new hubs and went to install the CL rotors and am having trouble with my front 150x15mm. The CL/cassette tool is too small to slide over the axle to tighten the rotor lock ring. I assume you have to remove the axle since there aren't removable end caps like the I9's I pulled these off of. I planned on calling Oynx tomorrow, but just wanted to see what obvious thing I was missing! If you do in fact have to remove the axle it is no longer faster and less of a hassle as 6 bolt.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

jpfurn said:


> I just got my new hubs and went to install the CL rotors and am having trouble with my front 150x15mm. The CL/cassette tool is too small to slide over the axle to tighten the rotor lock ring. I assume you have to remove the axle since there aren't removable end caps like the I9's I pulled these off of. I planned on calling Oynx tomorrow, but just wanted to see what obvious thing I was missing! If you do in fact have to remove the axle it is no longer faster and less of a hassle as 6 bolt.


not sure what kind of rotors , but the lock rings that came with my shimano rotors would not work . I actually bought some dt Swiss lock rings and every thing works like it should .they tighten from the outside of the ring


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## AndrewBikeGuide (Nov 12, 2014)

jpfurn said:


> I just got my new hubs and went to install the CL rotors and am having trouble with my front 150x15mm. The CL/cassette tool is too small to slide over the axle to tighten the rotor lock ring. I assume you have to remove the axle since there aren't removable end caps like the I9's I pulled these off of. I planned on calling Oynx tomorrow, but just wanted to see what obvious thing I was missing! If you do in fact have to remove the axle it is no longer faster and less of a hassle as 6 bolt.


There is a lock ring that comes with thru axle hubs SMHB-20 (example: SMHB20 / HMB618 Centre-Lock Ring for Disc Rotors to fit around 15/20mm - Hunt Bike Wheels). DT Swiss also make one. 
You use a standard BB tool to cinch it down rather than the cassettee lcok ring that only works with a QR axle front hub.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

And by standard BB tool we mean the wrench type (flat thing with a handle, such as Park BBT-9), not the socket type -- a socket may not be deep enough to clear the axle end. RWC outboard BB tool should also work.


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## jpfurn (Oct 21, 2014)

Awesome, thanks guys!


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

evasive said:


> how many threads do you need to discuss this in for it to stick?


boomroasted


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## mopes (Mar 8, 2011)

So if I understand this correctly the nobl hubs are lighter than onyx aside from this whole new, lighter Freehub design? Anyone weighed both of em?


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## mopes (Mar 8, 2011)

So if I understand this correctly the nobl hubs are lighter than onyx aside from this whole new, lighter Freehub design? Anyone weighed both of em?


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

J. Random Psycho said:


> I just wish Onyx had 6061 forged hub shells.. have no trust in 7xxx alloys under tension because of stress corrosion cracking. (would be glad to be wrong on this)


while 7k series might be affected by this they are about 100% stonger in yeild compared to 6061 to begin with (and usually non weldable except for maybe 7005 which is not stronger than 6000 series).

As far as I know WhiteInd uses 6061 and they use it because it doesnt crack. 6061 tends to deform before it cracks. And all the other stronger alus just crack. Also when blowing ballons out of alu (aka hydroforming) they prefer 6061 since its so soft and weak. so it definitely seems more malleable in some applications.

There is also 2000 series like 2014 aka "duralumin", its been around since the 30ies and still going strong. I think it has better fatigue figures compared to 6000 but it needs to be painted with etch primer usually since it corrodes. Or maybe type 3 anodized.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

evasive said:


> How many threads do you need to discuss this in for it to stick?


maybe 3-4 more? How long will it take for you to get it??


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

car bone said:


> maybe 3-4 more? How long will it take for you to get it??


I've understood that they use two different mechanisms since the first time I read about them.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

But the result is the same. You wedge something beween 2 things and you get an instant grab.


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

car bone said:


> But the result is the same. You wedge something beween 2 things and you get an instant grab.


You just described a doorstop.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> You just described what happens when I stick my hand between my wife's butt cheeks. Instant engagement.


ftfy


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

My 157x12 DH hub with the new alloy xd driver only weighs 428g.


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## Baltazar (Jan 30, 2004)

Just got my Onyx hub, 28h, new XD aluminium body, 12x142, 410g. Amazing feel in the hub


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Baltazar said:


> Just got my Onyx hub, 28h, new XD aluminium body, 12x142, 410g. Amazing feel in the hub


Onyx spin like none ive used right out of the box . And i have both , onyx on my mtb and king on my xbike


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> You just described a doorstop.


and thats what these 2 hubs do!


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

blacksheep5150 said:


> Onyx spin like none ive used right out of the box . And i have both , onyx on my mtb and king on my xbike


and if the onyx spins like crazy you can derive from that that the seals are ****! otherwise it wouldn't spin at all. since if you have a good sealing hubs dont spin very well.


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## Baltazar (Jan 30, 2004)

blacksheep5150 said:


> Onyx spin like none ive used right out of the box . And i have both , onyx on my mtb and king on my xbike


yes and no, there is some drag in the clutch mechanism, so according to onyx, they have to be "braked in". but i goes it will go fast when they are built up as a wheel


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

car bone said:


> and if the onyx spins like crazy you can derive from that that the seals are ****! otherwise it wouldn't spin at all. since if you have a good sealing hubs dont spin very well.


Had mine in a race a couple weeks back. Rained the whole weekend, so plenty of opportunity for water to get inside.

Bearings are still as smooth as ever and the hub has still never skipped a beat

Heck, one ride in the rain my Hopes and everything was crunchy!

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

For SS weight may not come into play. Onyx Boost 148 6-bolt is 551g. DT 240 is 244g 350 is 305g.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

This thread cracks me up .. Kings are great ,so proud of there boost hubs that I said I will pass on my 3rd set , bought onyx thru one of my sons old bmx sponsors for half the price of kings and really like them ... I was always a fan of the king buzz , but now after my onyx ...the statement that says ..silence is golden rings true !


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## SB666 (Aug 12, 2014)

I was positive that I was a fan of loud hubs, went onyx and instantly converted - silence is golden! It's almost hard to stand the sound of a Hope Pro Evo hub now!


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

I just emailed Chris King about a single speed 142x12 TA hub. They said they make one but it's not listed on the website. My only issue is the aluminum free hub. I wish they made a stainless steel version like they do for the geared hubs. Not sure if Onyx has 142x12 SS hub available?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

FWIW there are 142x12 axles for True Precision Poacher S3, and they can make one for an S2 on request. For a non-compression axle hub (such as CK, TP, Onyx) I'd go with bolt-up interface though unless the frame dictated using a through axle.


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## kitejumping (Sep 3, 2010)

hardmtnbiker said:


> I just emailed Chris King about a single speed 142x12 TA hub. They said they make one but it's not listed on the website. My only issue is the aluminum free hub. I wish they made a stainless steel version like they do for the geared hubs. Not sure if Onyx has 142x12 SS hub available?


They do, I've run one for a year on my dh bike with 7 cogs off a 10sp cassette. Recently got a new DH bike with a 157x12, and it shares the same hub body so I was able to convert it. I've also got a 142x12 SS on my DJ bike and like being able to easily convert to use either rear wheel on either bike, just in case I blow up a carbon rim on one of them I have a backup wheel ready to go.


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## hardmtnbiker (Feb 22, 2005)

Good to know, I've heard a lot of good things about Onyx and would choose heavy durable over light anyway.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

hardmtnbiker said:


> Not sure if Onyx has 142x12 SS hub available?


12x142 SS


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

hardmtnbiker said:


> Good to know, I've heard a lot of good things about Onyx and would choose heavy durable over light anyway.


tp=500g durable solid hardened steel. It probably wont get any more durable than that. ever.


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## jsalas2 (Nov 29, 2008)

join thread


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I took these pictures today of a sprag clutch, this goes in a MD helicopter, to allow the rotors to continue rotating if the engine slows down/stops. There's a flexible inner cage that is not present in the picture, and the one bearing is just the race and some of the individual sprag pawls. Just in case someone wanted to see this taken apart.


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## NOBLwheels (Nov 25, 2014)

PUNKY said:


> The issue with the NOBL hubs is no Centre Lock hub options. (Would be a further weight reduction). As a CDN I'd likely place an order for a complete wheel set as the pricing looks attractive. It looks less attractive if one was to buy the hubs separately.


We have to do large manufacturing runs so we're not able to offer centerlock yet. We build our rims on any Onyx hubs for the same price as our NOBL hubs. We can get their hubs express too if needed so it only takes 2 days to get to us and then a couple days for building.

Our hubs are $799 Canadian for a set. Chris Kings and DT240's have suggested retails of $1200-$1400+ in Canada as reference.


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## NOBLwheels (Nov 25, 2014)

mopes said:


> So if I understand this correctly the nobl hubs are lighter than onyx aside from this whole new, lighter Freehub design? Anyone weighed both of em?


The main savings are in our front hubs as we have a dedicated 15mm design. The front hub is completely unique from theirs, whereas the rear hub has a unique shell but all of the rear internals are identical. We have these weights posted on the hub product page on our site, but here is a list for MTBR. I did not choose the lightest hubs in a batch, I weighed a bunch of hubs and chose the average. So we do have slightly lighter ones kicking around, but customers buying these generally are not gram counters, they are interested in the other benefits of the design.

100x15mm......................................171g
110x15mm......................................178g
142x12mm XD *Steel........................458g
142x12mm XD *Alloy........................411g
142x12 HG (Shimano) *Steel.............491g
142x12 HG (Shimano) *Alloy.............420g
148x12mm XD *Steel.......................467g
148x12mm XD *Alloy.......................419g
148x12mm HG (Shimano) *Steel.......491g
148x12mm HG (Shimano) *Alloy.......431g


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## Danil14 (Apr 10, 2008)

I have a few questions regarding this hubs.
Do they have hubs for lefty 2.0? I didn't find anything about lefty 2.0 on their website.
What is the colour of hubs will best match with cannondale green? Green Antifreeze, Green Fluorescent or Green Kawasaki?


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Danil14,

sounds like you're looking for a monochromatic or analogous harmony to a color close to this one: #8dc73f. See this color calculator, for instance: https://www.sessions.edu/color-calculator. Or this more powerful one: https://color.adobe.com.

PS. FWIW I gave up on color matching my Toxic Wasabi Green frame with anything, so I just use white and black on the bike. Hub shells, spokes, and rims are black. It all goes well together.


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## dustyduke22 (Aug 22, 2006)

They don't have lefty hubs, but could probably work with you to get one from Onyx

Sent from my SPH-L720T using Tapatalk


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

well, i have powered thru this thread, at the expense of more important matters, and i can't wait to order my onyx hubs! i got a good deal on a leftover 5010 frame, a leftover pike and leftover atomik rims. i guess the hubs will not be blowing out when i buy, but that's okay. that antifreeze is a perfect match for the frame, wish i could get baby blue widgets.

my last build rides on hope pro4 and i do kinda like that racket, but i'm really looking forward to the dead silence. i can easily see myself replacing the pro4 rear with another onyx.


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## Danil14 (Apr 10, 2008)

Thank you for your reply! 
To be honestly I gave up as well  Just ordered black extralite hubs


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## VonFalkenhausen (Jun 26, 2014)

kevrider said:


> ...my last build rides on hope pro4 and i do kinda like that racket, but i'm really looking forward to the dead silence. i can easily see myself replacing the pro4 rear with another onyx.


The silence is addictive. I am soon to be ordering my second set, the only tough part of the decision is color.


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## kevrider (Jul 18, 2010)

i remember when i converted an old GT to singlespeed i really enjoyed the quiet running when under power or when bounding over rough stuff. not sure how loud it was when freewheeling; not very, but not dead silent. i can only imagine... for now....


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## Back2MTB (Jun 4, 2014)

VonFalkenhausen said:


> The silence is addictive. I am soon to be ordering my second set, the only tough part of the decision is color.


I have to admit, I have a Hope hub and an I9 that I love but on solo rides I love my silent SS wheels on tight, toothy single track. It's just me and the woods and the leaves/rocks/wind...


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Yes sir on the silence , getting my second set also ..just waiting to see what fork i get for the new hardtail build and then will get them done .. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm building my fourth set of Onyx hubs. If you can afford them, and you're not a weight weenie, there is no finer hub.

Silent, no drag, instant engagement, strong as the day is long.


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## Keithyk (Feb 3, 2016)

Just ordered a pair of NOBL hub, like the hub shell design from NOBL instead of Onyx.

Can't wait for them to arrive and lace up...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Keithyk said:


> Just ordered a pair of NOBL hub, like the hub shell design from NOBL instead of Onyx.
> 
> Can't wait for them to arrive and lace up...


Still liking my Onyx hubs on an older wheel set I have. My new favorite hub is the brand new 216 points of engagement Project 321 Hubs, Low drag and almost silent. Just recently received the wheel back from the upgrade now going to put it through the test.


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

Keithyk said:


> Just ordered a pair of NOBL hub, like the hub shell design from NOBL instead of Onyx.
> 
> Can't wait for them to arrive and lace up...


NOBL doesn't offer the discounted upgrade options that Onyx does.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

softbatch said:


> NOBL doesn't offer the discounted upgrade options that Onyx does.


Onyx hubs will be under 325g in months ahead 12x148 rear hubs, 1.5 rows sprag. Can't wait!!


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