# Long Term Report: Rockshox Pike Charger Damper



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

*Long Term Report: Rockshox Pike Charger Damper (leaking Pike damper solution)*

One of my clients has a Rockshox Pike with the longest use that Ive seen gone thru my little suspension shop. We are doing it's 1st year service. The client is a once a week rider with multiple trips to Snow Summit bike park last year.

Seals are ok, although we are replacing them. Lower bath fluids are ok. The Charger damper though, not so good. It's making a squirting noise and is totally infiltrated with air. Although the bleed is a lot simpler than other sealed cartridges, I am not impressed. Most FIT carts will last over two seasons before needing service. Even then, I usually only go in as a matter of preventive maintenance. I'm going to do a bleed, but if the bleed doesn't last, I'll start recommending a full rebuild of the damper.









EDIT: Solution to the problem.

Amazon.com : NSD Cartridge Seal Head for Rockshox Charger Damper Pike Boxxer : Sports & Outdoors


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Quite a common problem caused by poor sealing.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Rick Draper said:


> Quite a common problem caused by poor sealing.


Youre saying its common to the Pike? Thanks for the info.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

bing! said:


> Youre saying its common to the Pike? Thanks for the info.


Very common on the pike yes, the sealing of the lower seal head rebound shaft is not very good at all.


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## RyeBokeh (Feb 23, 2007)

What's the repair cost for the damper? Will the whole damper need replacing? I just saw that it'll cost around $256 for one, yikes!

Looks like my next fork will be a Fox 36.


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## elsinore (Jun 10, 2005)

RyeBokeh said:


> What's the repair cost for the damper? Will the whole damper need replacing? I just saw that it'll cost around $256 for one, yikes!
> 
> Looks like my next fork will be a Fox 36.


I doubt the fox will be much different as they also use a bladder. It's to bad everyone seems to be moving away from the easily serviceable cartridge units. Was cavitation ever really a huge issue?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

elsinore said:


> I doubt the fox will be much different as they also use a bladder. It's to bad everyone seems to be moving away from the easily serviceable cartridge units. Was cavitation ever really a huge issue?


The Pike service kit is like 45 bucks, which includes main, air spring and damper seals. I'd could do a full rebuild including air spring damper for about 125 plus the kit. A regular shop would probably charge around 200.


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## Scotth72 (Mar 15, 2004)

Check the listed service intervals for this fork. One year is way to long for a service. 
Fox's Fit carts ingested bath oil and blew the bladder all the time. The quest for lighter forks causes forks to flex, and the damper flexes with them. This causes the lower seal head to leak. With lots of bath oil, the damper ingested oil. With little bath oil (5ml, RS), they ingest air. It's all part of owning a high end suspension product.
Take care of your fork, and it will be fine.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

A little bit off topic but ... one of the reasons I switched from Fox to RS Pike was how easy it was to bleed the RS charger damper (epicbleedsolutions.com sells a great kit).
I like to do as much as I can on my bike and components myself and being able to do a damper bleed was a huge plus.
The Fox FIT was always a little beyond my comfort level and I'd have to send in my fork for service beyond an oil change in the lowers.
Another plus for those of us in Canada: RS parts are a breeze to order online. Online stores in US/UK will not ship Fox parts to Canada.


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

Bang - jaw hitting the floor.
1/week is say 50 rides and if that is way too long I am guessing 25 rides is right? This is hugely disappointing and I just bought a Pike. I am a design engineer and I would be embarrassed to knowingly let a product like this go to the field. Statistically, some will fail in half that time some more but likely it will someday fail in the middle of a ride....bottom line this cannot be justified as a benefit of a high end product. 
Anybody got beta on what parts are getting damaged or is really just leak by? I think Avalanche sells a beefed up cartridge ...maybe that is the ticket. Anybody with experience to share on how to and what to beef up to get this thing to run longer?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

the only people who I've seen actually needed a damper servicd every year or more are people who ride about 100 miles a week.

I get strange looks from people when I tell them to come in every 50 hours. I just strongly recommend for folks to service their suspension once a year.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Tommybees said:


> B I think Avalanche sells a beefed up cartridge ...maybe that is the ticket. Anybody with experience to share on how to and what to beef up to get this thing to run longer?


Avy do one of two things. One option is to fit a new compression and rebound piston with their own tune to the existing Charger cartridge. The other is their own open bath cartridge.

The latter obviously solves any issues with the Charger, the former I doubt it, whilst they do fit new seals, they're more of the same type as fitted originally.


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## NSD (Feb 12, 2015)

These are a very good option to help keep the oil in your Charger damper.
NSD Charger Cartridge Sealhead for RockShox Boxxer & Pike - NSDynamics

US postage is available. Please contact via email for a quote.

[email protected]


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

NSD said:


> These are a very good option to help keep the oil in your Charger damper.
> NSD Charger Cartridge Sealhead for RockShox Boxxer & Pike - NSDynamics
> 
> US postage is available. Please contact via email for a quote.
> ...


I like it. It took me a couple of weeks of owning the fork to figure out what was causing long term harshness issues. And there you go, you already solved it.

I sent an email.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> Very common on the pike yes, the sealing of the lower seal head rebound shaft is not very good at all.


If it's sucking air through the lower seal head, then it is getting more compression damping from the rebound piston than from the compression piston.

I don't see this as a sealing issue. I think it's a damping issue. If the top compression piston does the compression damping (as it should) then the oil under the rebound piston by the seal head shouldn't see enough vacuum to suck air in.


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

^^^ I like it too, but wonder if somebody in NA has something similar?

Or when NSD will be setting up an NA shop?!


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

bing! said:


> ...I sent an email.


Email also sent. I had my fork warrantied twice and the dampener is leaking again. Its modding time.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Dougal said:


> If it's sucking air through the lower seal head, then it is getting more compression damping from the rebound piston than from the compression piston.
> 
> I don't see this as a sealing issue. I think it's a damping issue. If the top compression piston does the compression damping (as it should) then the oil under the rebound piston by the seal head shouldn't see enough vacuum to suck air in.


You can make oil come out of the charger damper by wiggling the damping rod, this has been noted by plenty of people. I have seen them where the lower leg lube is filled full of damper oil but the damper itself has no signs of a leak and it bleeds up and tests ok. Its down to the lower seal head, specifically the seal between the shaft and the head itself.

I have another in shortly for a service so I will try and get some pictures.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Anyone here tried the NSD upgrade? It looks like a great solution.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

bing! said:


> the only people who I've seen actually needed a damper servicd every year or more are people who ride about 100 miles a week.
> 
> *I get strange looks from people when I tell them to come in every 50 hours. *I just strongly recommend for folks to service their suspension once a year.


That would mean every 2.5 weeks of riding. :skep: :madman::madman:


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

The only problem I've seen with the Pike is the same as you have all seen. That lower piston rod seal. I replaced it with a quad seal, not the stock seal, hoping for a better outcome. Customer raced EWS last weekend so I'm hoping to see it this week.

mk


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## NSD (Feb 12, 2015)

For info on delivery, $15AUD will cover shipping to USA.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

trailbildr said:


> The only problem I've seen with the Pike is the same as you have all seen. That lower piston rod seal. I replaced it with a quad seal, not the stock seal, hoping for a better outcome. Customer raced EWS last weekend so I'm hoping to see it this week.
> 
> mk


Sweet! Let us know.

I haven't opened up a charger damper yet, just done a few bleeds. I see the NDS unit has a bushing to stabilize the shaft, a quad ring and a wiper. Does the original deal for the Pike have the bushing?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

bing! said:


> Sweet! Let us know.
> 
> I haven't opened up a charger damper yet, just done a few bleeds. I see the NDS unit has a bushing to stabilize the shaft, a quad ring and a wiper. Does the original deal for the Pike have the bushing?


As standard it has a bushing and a wiper.


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## kand (Feb 4, 2005)

Ratt said:


> I had my fork warrantied twice and the dampener is leaking again. Its modding time.


wow....reminds me of my Judy. Ended up with an air englund cartridge.....this is RS deja vu.......


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

kand said:


> wow....reminds me of my Judy. Ended up with an air englund cartridge.....this is RS deja vu.......


LOL. Those were the days!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

mtnbikej said:


> That would mean every 2.5 weeks of riding. :skep: :madman::madman:


hahahaha, I like to ride, but 50 hours of riding every 2.5 weeks would be a part time job  I get what youre saying though. I dont follow the recommendations either. From experience, we can get quite a bit off the seals, usually, as long as the lower bath oil is taken cared of.


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

trailbildr said:


> The only problem I've seen with the Pike is the same as you have all seen. That lower piston rod seal. I replaced it with a quad seal, not the stock seal, hoping for a better outcome. Customer raced EWS last weekend so I'm hoping to see it this week.
> 
> mk


If the quad seal is better will it be something we could order from you?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

trailbildr said:


> The only problem I've seen with the Pike is the same as you have all seen. That lower piston rod seal. I replaced it with a quad seal, not the stock seal, hoping for a better outcome. Customer raced EWS last weekend so I'm hoping to see it this week.
> 
> mk


Isn't a quad seal for piston assemblies? Like say an air can piston? I think for this purpose, a lipped shaft seal, like NDS's application might be more suitable.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Lower seal head seal:


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks. Looks pretty standard. I've seen them in the service baggy, looking like it's covered with powder.

I'm going to check if I can get a more reliable unit off some industrial sources.


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## crseekins (Oct 7, 2008)

Rick Draper said:


> You can make oil come out of the charger damper by wiggling the damping rod, this has been noted by plenty of people. I have seen them where the lower leg lube is filled full of damper oil but the damper itself has no signs of a leak and it bleeds up and tests ok. Its down to the lower seal head, specifically the seal between the shaft and the head itself.
> 
> I have another in shortly for a service so I will try and get some pictures.


This wiggling or unguided movement causes the seal to leak, it is not the seal's fault but how it is guided. The piston end of the rod has a very loose fitting piston band that does very little to restrain the side to side movement within the cartridge tube, this allows the rod to wiggle beyond the grip of the seal and oil leaks out and air can also leak in. Our rebound piston we use in the charger upgrade provides a much tighter clearance and prevents the wiggle from happening thus minimizing seal leakage.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Actually there are two versions of that Trelleborg seal, the first version wasn't up to spec. and it causes leakage when you apply a perpendicular load to the shaft at top out. The revised seal doesn't leak.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Video of the leaky seal:
https://vidmg.photobucket.com/album...ling/3D481CF7-20AD-41C1-BF10-2BF76964EFB6.mp4
Damper was filled with air.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

How do you tell the difference between the seals? Was it a running change?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Rick Draper said:


> I think the main issue is unlike say a fox rebound shaft the damper rod on the pike downsizes slightly where the rebound needle sits. As its slightly undersized it allows a lot of movement at topout due to the bushing been unable to support it properly permitting it to wobble quite a lot. I would think the issue is less of a problem on forks running under 160mm travel.


Hmmm. I gotta think of this. Tacubaya mentions that an improved seal is available, you mention that it likely a design issue.

I wonder if I really need the NDS solution?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

You can see the part that I think causes a problem here in the NDS picture:







Avalanche with the closer fitting glidring will prevent the shaft wobble as well. If I see many mire with issues like this then I will have to look into the best most cost effective solution for my customers.


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## NSD (Feb 12, 2015)

Just a little bit more info on these sealheads,

We have a taller bushing (less wobble in the shaft), an x-ring between the bushing and wiper, and a better quality wiper seal. We also spent a lot of time working on tolerances so the least amount of stiction is present. 

There is another picture of one in more detail if you click through the link on our first reply.

We have plenty out in the field, a few with over 100h ride time and a wet EWS round with no issues.

Cheers for the interest in this guys.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

bing! said:


> Hmmm. I gotta think of this. Tacubaya mentions that an improved seal is available, you mention that it likely a design issue.
> 
> I wonder if I really need the NDS solution?


I first noticed the leakage on the first batch of Pikes, when they came back for the second service (and some of them their first service), I replaced the seals with some I purchased somewhat recently and the Chargers stopped leaking and they were easier to bleed.

Chargers on Boxxers are working totally fine and I haven't seen any significant oil ingestion or aeration, but of course those use a dual seal design (one seal on the sealhead and another on the stanchion base plate).


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

I was in a pinch and had the quad seal handy. I didn't have a rebuild kit and dude wanted his fork right now. It's what I had in the shop. There wasn't any additional stiction and no leakage so I went with it. I have full rebuilds kits around now.

There are two different seal heads for the BoXXer Charger and the Pike Charger. I don't know the material differences between the two but there might be something to upgrading to that seal head. One is black and one is silver that I have seen.

I'll be replacing the quad seal with the new stock wiper seal when I see the fork again. I'll be checking to see if the quad seal leaked but I doubt it will have a longer life or work better.

mk


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Just blew my 3rd Charger bladder. Two different forks. Over this. I've come to the conclusion it's air impregnation(cavitation forces sucking through the seal the wrong way) getting in through the seal head. Now with the bladder over full, the bladder blows on full bottom-out as the stanchion is restricting the bladders growth.

I've noticed the fork seems to loose about an inch of travel under normal use, then next few hard rides, I get a blown bladder.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

I have had to bleed mine a few times now. I do about 100km per week and find it lasts about a month before needing bleeding again. You can tell if you have this problem by the amount of in dampened free play in the first part of the stroke. Just grab your lowers by hand to do this. Last time mine moved approx 2cm or 1" freely. In my opinion a new seal head like NS have done looks like a good solution. I will try and order one today. Will let you all know how it goes. Seriously if this is the only issue you get from a fork then I would be very happy, which I am. I have had way more issues with other brand forks.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Rick Draper said:


> How do you tell the difference between the seals? Was it a running change?


The first batch of the seal has some quite evident flash on the pressure lip.


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

niva1989 - good useful info. Can you please confirm your bleed (full bleed, leave lowers on, etc). This is not too bad if there is a way to predict (sloppy first stroke) and a quick bleed to correct.

thanks!


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Tommybees said:


> niva1989 - good useful info. Can you please confirm your bleed (full bleed, leave lowers on, etc). This is not too bad if there is a way to predict (sloppy first stroke) and a quick bleed to correct.
> 
> thanks!


It is very hard to bleed the damper with it still in the lowers, in my opinion. Getting that super tight fit snap ring out is a real PITA.

My fork has no very evident signs of air impregnation when it happens. Damping feels basically normal. Only thing I notice is loss of compression travel near full bump.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Tommybees said:


> niva1989 - good useful info. Can you please confirm your bleed (full bleed, leave lowers on, etc). This is not too bad if there is a way to predict (sloppy first stroke) and a quick bleed to correct.
> 
> thanks!


I have bled the damper both ways but prefer to remove it from the fork completely. It doesn't take that long to remove. If you wanted to save a crush washer you could just bleed it in the fork. Last couple of times I bled I needed to check some other things anyway. I should have a new seal head from NS Dynamics tomorrow and will fit it and bleed again. I am also going to change to RS 2.5wt oil to improve dampening a bit.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Thanks for editing in the Amazon link, even with a conti US distributor. I believe my Pike could use this, if the new revised seal doesn't remedy the issue on my '14 stock E29 160 RC fork.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

kand said:


> wow....reminds me of my Judy. Ended up with an air englund cartridge.....this is RS deja vu.......


Those things were the BEST things for function ever made. They blew out every other ride, but were still worth it because the fork actually WORKED with them in! 
My dad and I could rebuild them in about 20 minutes easy.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Varaxis said:


> Thanks for editing in the Amazon link, even with a conti US distributor. I believe my Pike could use this, if the new revised seal doesn't remedy the issue on my '14 stock E29 160 RC fork.


No worries. In the interest of full disclosure, I am now the Socal wholesale distributor of the product. Currently marketing the units to US bike shops.

Retail is available via NS Dynamics through their website, or Amazon.com, which is my US based fulfillment channel for retail orders.

Amazon.com : NS Dynamics Cartridge Seal Head for Rockshox Charger Damper Pike Boxxer : Sports & Outdoors


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

bing! said:


> No worries. In the interest of full disclosure, I am now the Socal wholesale distributor of the product. Currently marketing the units to US bike shops.
> 
> Retail is available via NS Dynamics through their website, or Amazon.com, which is my US based fulfillment channel for retail orders.
> 
> Amazon.com : NS Dynamics Cartridge Seal Head for Rockshox Charger Damper Pike Boxxer : Sports & Outdoors


I just tried ordering one but it wouldn't let me. I'm in Canada. 
Is there an issue shipping here?
Jon


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jon123 said:


> I just tried ordering one but it wouldn't let me. I'm in Canada.
> Is there an issue shipping here?
> Jon


Not sure. It might be an Amazon thing. Send me a pm and I'll send you one directly.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

tacubaya said:


> I first noticed the leakage on the first batch of Pikes, when they came back for the second service (and some of them their first service), I replaced the seals with some I purchased somewhat recently and the Chargers stopped leaking and they were easier to bleed.
> 
> Chargers on Boxxers are working totally fine and I haven't seen any significant oil ingestion or aeration, but of course those use a dual seal design (one seal on the sealhead and another on the stanchion base plate).


So I have developed the harsh small bump compliance and harsh dampening over time. I performed a lower oil change and bleed the damper (did not install any new deals at this time). The damper was slightly swollen and made some squish noise when cycled. When I removed the low speed compression knob c-clip and wiggled out the knob, a small amount of fluid was pushed out accompanied by small bubbles and some foaming. After reassembly, the fork performance was vastly improved and reminded me of that day-one feel. Unfortunately after about 4 hrs of riding, I started to notice the harshness return and to confirm that was my hands getting numb which coincidentally started to occur about the time I noticed the performance degrading the first time. I can only assume the returned harshness is related to the air ingestion as that's the only thing that wasn't quite right during the service.

Just so I'm understanding this correctly.
- there has been a Rockshox seal countermeasure that you have experienced no further air ingestion with? 
- is there a part number change to confirm the correct part?
- possible early forks had the lower shaft seal issues? I'm not sure if I got an "early one" or not. 
- or just go with the NSD seal head?

Or there could be something else going on but this seems to make the most sense. I've read a thread or two about "burping" the lowers and regaining performance but that doesn't seem like a permanent solution and probably something that was clearly thought out during design and testing.

Any help is greatly appreciated!!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Techspec360 said:


> So I have developed the harsh small bump compliance and harsh dampening over time. I performed a lower oil change and bleed the damper (did not install any new deals at this time). The damper was slightly swollen and made some squish noise when cycled. When I removed the low speed compression knob c-clip and wiggled out the knob, a small amount of fluid was pushed out accompanied by small bubbles and some foaming. After reassembly, the fork performance was vastly improved and reminded me of that day-one feel. Unfortunately after about 4 hrs of riding, I started to notice the harshness return and to confirm that was my hands getting numb which coincidentally started to occur about the time I noticed the performance degrading the first time. I can only assume the returned harshness is related to the air ingestion as that's the only thing that wasn't quite right during the service.
> 
> Just so I'm understanding this correctly.
> - there has been a Rockshox seal countermeasure that you have experienced no further air ingestion with?
> ...


I sell the NSD seal heads on Amazon. That said, the NSD seal head has a larger bushing for better shaft support and dual seals.

I have heard that Rockshox has made changes, but to me, it's second hand information. I don't really know myself except for what Ive read here.

I think the burping of the lowers is a load of bs. That aint the issue.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

bing! said:


> I sell the NSD seal heads on Amazon. That said, the NSD seal head has a larger bushing for better shaft support and dual seals.
> 
> I have heard that Rockshox has made changes, but to me, it's second hand information. I don't really know myself except for what Ive read here.
> 
> I think the burping of the lowers is a load of bs. That aint the issue.


One thing I noticed that may be completely normal was when the fork was reassembled (With air cap removed) it was in the full extended position and had resistance while compressing as if there had been air installed. I also noticed this same resistance or better described as pressurized feeling the air shaft too had this resistance almost like it would create a vacuum between the lower seal cap (at bottom of the upper, with c-clip holding it in place) and the air piston. I suppose this is probably normal too as there is really no way to balance these pressures.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Techspec360 said:


> One thing I noticed that may be completely normal was when the fork was reassembled (With air cap removed) it was in the full extended position and had resistance while compressing as if there had been air installed. I also noticed this same resistance or better described as pressurized feeling the air shaft too had this resistance almost like it would create a vacuum between the lower seal cap (at bottom of the upper, with c-clip holding it in place) and the air piston. I suppose this is probably normal too as there is really no way to balance these pressures.


You are correct. It's normal. If the fork lower was pressurizing due to cycling (and not from atmospheric pressure) then you'd think it would be ingesting dirt and squirting oil.


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## brent701 (Sep 17, 2012)

bing! said:


> I sell the NSD seal heads on Amazon. That said, the NSD seal head has a larger bushing for better shaft support and dual seals.
> 
> I have heard that Rockshox has made changes, but to me, it's second hand information. I don't really know myself except for what Ive read here.
> 
> I think the burping of the lowers is a load of bs. That aint the issue.


When my fork is due for it's 3rd rebuild on my 60 hours or so it has I'll order one of those seals.

On the air burping. If I recall after I think it was the 30 hour mark My fork starting doing that air thing in the lower legs and my small bump compliance was gone. I went from 85-80 psi to 60-65psi to get the small bump back and to get 25% sag. 
rebuilt fork. back to the out of the shop feel It had . 8 hours of riding later back to no small bump and back down to 60psi air. SRAM sent me the left leg internals to replace. so far so good. they said some valve may have been leaking air into the negative chamber causing this..

I know when I had all these problems. If i let all the air out of my fork. It would lower it's self all the way down. and stay there with wheels off the ground. Now it does not.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

bing! said:


> You are correct. It's normal. If the fork lower was pressurizing due to cycling (and not from atmospheric pressure) then you'd think it would be ingesting dirt and squirting oil.


That was my thought as well, it's by design too keep contaminants out and ideally keep from pulling damper oil into the lowers. I suspect unfortunately this design is overcoming the lower damper seal in my fork and filling the damper with air. I suppose this answers the question, install a new (possibly countermeasured Rockshox seal) or the NSD seal head nut/seal assembly.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Techspec360 said:


> One thing I noticed that may be completely normal was when the fork was reassembled (With air cap removed) it was in the full extended position and had resistance while compressing as if there had been air installed. I also noticed this same resistance or better described as pressurized feeling the air shaft too had this resistance almost like it would create a vacuum between the lower seal cap (at bottom of the upper, with c-clip holding it in place) and the air piston. I suppose this is probably normal too as there is really no way to balance these pressures.


You will always get this due to the nature of the Pikes negative airspring. There is a vacuum in the negative airspring as soon as the main air piston passes the transfer port. Then as its compressed it is constantly trying to pull the fork back to full extension.


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## simenf (Nov 10, 2008)

Just installed my NSD seal head and bled the damper. Eager to try it out now.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

So do we know if the lower seal has been effectively updated by RS or should I just plan on ordering the nsd seal for my new pike?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

I would just order the NSD seal head to be sure as I haven't read any long term info on the RS seal head. I fitted an NSD seal head and now have about 200km on it without issue. You will still see a fair bit of sideways shaft movement when you fit it but is a big improvement on the original RS one.


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## simenf (Nov 10, 2008)

I had a squeak on fast rebound on my DPA before fitting the NSD and bleeding the Charger. It is still there after...any ideas to why? The oil and seals are fresh. 


Simenf

Brainwashed by the big wheel mafia


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

simenf said:


> I had a squeak on fast rebound on my DPA before fitting the NSD and bleeding the Charger. It is still there after...any ideas to why? The oil and seals are fresh.
> 
> Simenf
> 
> Brainwashed by the big wheel mafia


the squeak would most definitely have not come from the old seal head. squeak on a seal means friction. old and new seal head are well lubricated being inverted dampers.

I'd check on the following 
1) air spring lubrication
2) headset adjustment 
3) hub and thru axle
4) cable fitment and routing (lubricate ferrules)
5) stem and bar torques (apply assembly compound)
6) check is exposed stanchions are lubricating by feeling for oil film.


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## inner ted (Jan 7, 2014)

Greetings, 

Warning; Wall of Text Incoming:

Disclaimer - I have 0 (zero,nada,none,notaone) mechanical skills. I am very good customer to any LBS.

I have had my Pike since Jan 2014.
Rode all year & then Lockout stopped working so had it serviced in Jan 2015 - I admit I don't know what 'servicing' is, but after, it still wasn't right - the Lockout was still not working so shop did something with the 'damper seals' (they said they needed a special kit & i was the first - hooray!) 

seemed to work fine over next 6 months til now - Lockout fails same way during a climb one day & no work since. 

Are the NRD seals discussed here the savior I need? Is this entirely unrelated?

And am I OK to keep riding? I rarely stand while climbing, so if it's OK to keep shredding, I may eek out a few more weeks. If I'm making it worse & causing further damage, I'll send 'er in. 

/apologies for my lack of technical knowledge

Cheers!


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

bing! said:


> the squeak would most definitely have not come from the old seal head. squeak on a seal means friction. old and new seal head are well lubricated being inverted dampers.
> 
> I'd check on the following
> 1) air spring lubrication
> ...


Looks like the amazon link shows zero stock. PM me direct contact if you have any seal heads in stock thanks! Just updated my bike, and noticed my wifes Pike sucked air too, as it's not getting full travel.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

I'm away on long holiday for the 4th of July weekend. I will restock the Amazon store when I get back Monday.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

bing! said:


> I'm away on long holiday for the 4th of July weekend. I will restock the Amazon store when I get back Monday.


Awesome, Bing. I'll be checking every hour on Monday. 

I just now came across this thread. So, so, so happy there is a fix for this one and only problem with the Pike. I always thought the seal on the bottom of this cartridge was horrid. I couldn't believe it when I first had to rebuild my Pike. What on earth was SRAM thinking? It was clear to me that it needed a dedicated wiper and quad ring. The bushing will just make it even better.

Can't wait to get this new seal head so I don't have to rebuild every 20 hours.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

inner ted said:


> Greetings,
> 
> Warning; Wall of Text Incoming:
> 
> ...


test if the lockout works deeper down the travel. if it does, then it may be the result of oil loss. in that case, we need to find oout what is causing the damper to lose oil. could be the seal head.


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Interesting thread. The Charger should make no noise when cycling, correct? I have noticed a loss in performance with mine accompanied with a light swooshing noise(with lowers removed and rod cycling.)


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## inner ted (Jan 7, 2014)

bing! said:


> test if the lockout works deeper down the travel. if it does, then it may be the result of oil loss. in that case, we need to find oout what is causing the damper to lose oil. could be the seal head.


with the Lockout 'on' , I can compress to nearly 1/2 the total travel while just standing over it and pumping it 
I rode it again over the weekend & achieved about normal travel during the downhill portion of my ride


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Laterilus said:


> Awesome, Bing. I'll be checking every hour on Monday.
> 
> I just now came across this thread. So, so, so happy there is a fix for this one and only problem with the Pike. I always thought the seal on the bottom of this cartridge was horrid. I couldn't believe it when I first had to rebuild my Pike. What on earth was SRAM thinking? It was clear to me that it needed a dedicated wiper and quad ring. The bushing will just make it even better.
> 
> Can't wait to get this new seal head so I don't have to rebuild every 20 hours.


Amazon is restocked, and orders are being shipped again. Thanks for your patience.


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## inner ted (Jan 7, 2014)

can I purchase this wonder seal from you & then have a LBS complete the fix, or do I send you my fork ? thanks & looking forward to having my fork work as amazing as it's supposed to


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

inner ted said:


> can I purchase this wonder seal from you & then have a LBS complete the fix, or do I send you my fork ? thanks & looking forward to having my fork work as amazing as it's supposed to


If your local shop is capable of bleeding the damper, they should have no issues replacing the seal head.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I didn't want to spill any beans but Rock Shox re-designed the Charger sealhead. 

Not sure if 2016 Pikes are shipping right now with that new sealhead but the Lyrik and Yari do come with it. 

As far as I know, it will be retrofittable to Pikes except for 26" Pike because the new sealhead is longer and on the 26" Pike the cartridge would contact the lower leg on full bottom out.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Interesting... I have the new version. Let me pull that apart tonight.


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## inner ted (Jan 7, 2014)

so if I send my fork in for service, will they use this new sealhead?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

re: New Lyriks "the damper's basic construction remains the same, although the cartridge seal are now manufactured by SKF, as are the fork's dust wiper seals."

First Look: RockShox Lyrik and Yari - Pinkbike

Here's the list of the new tech:
15×100 and Boost 110 (15×110) versions
Torque Caps compatible (15×100 and Boost 110 versions) - this is RockShox' fatter axle ends first introduced on the RS-1 fork last year.
Tapered legs, taller stiffer brace - chassis optimized for stiffness and lightweight
New retuned Solo Air spring with additional negative volume for a plusher initial stroke
Bottomless Token tunable in both Solo Air AND Dual Position Air configurations

SKF wiper seals - lower friction and better sealing
New refined Motion Control damper: Rapid Recovery rebound. Re-tuned high speed compression to match Charger
Lyrik RCT3 Solo Air, all, travels and configurations: £824, US$1,030.00, €1075
Lyrik RCT3 Dual Position Air, all AM wheel sizes, travels and configurations: £888, US$1,110, €1158
Lyrik RC: OEM only
AVAILABLE: October 2015

Singletrack Magazine | RockShox revamps the Lyrik fork and introduces the Yari


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

New for 2016 Pike (funny remembering that thread where members were jumping all over that poor guy for suggesting there might be changes!):
PIKE
Torque Cap compatibility (Boost 110)
Bottomless Token tunable in both Solo Air AND Dual Position Air configurations
Charger Damper (RCT3 and RC models) with new SKF cartridge seal – reduced friction and extended service intervals
SKF wiper seals – lower friction and better sealing
User tunable rebound damping via internal shims (same as BoXXer)


So... just says cartridge seal but doesn't really say if the whole seal head assembly has been revamped - it also NEEDS a larger bushing like what bing! is doing. At least they're aware of the problem and are attempting a fix. The new Lyrik has a larger negative air chamber for smoother small bump compliance so wondering if this will make it's way to the Pike as well. Going with thinner oil is not the answer as some here are doing - that can get too thin when running prolonged DH's with the oil heat build.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

bing! said:


> Amazon is restocked, and orders are being shipped again. Thanks for your patience.


Yep! I didn't see it yesterday, but I noticed it first thing this morning on Amazon. One of your orders today would be me. Can't wait to get it in the fork!


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## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> ...As far as I know, it will be retrofittable to Pikes except for 26" Pike because the new sealhead is longer and on the 26" Pike the cartridge would contact the lower leg on full bottom out.


Does anyone have confirmation on this? I just bought a new 26" Pike (2015) on closeout and I am wondering if I should pre-emptively upgrade to the NSD or if RS will have retrofit for the 26" pikes.

I'm just slightly worried that the NSD sealhead won't be available when I end up needing one (if RS makes them obsolete with a OEM fix), but I also don't want to replace it right now and void my warranty...


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jminus said:


> Does anyone have confirmation on this? I just bought a new 26" Pike (2015) on closeout and I am wondering if I should pre-emptively upgrade to the NSD or if RS will have retrofit for the 26" pikes.
> 
> I'm just slightly worried that the NSD sealhead won't be available when I end up needing one (if RS makes them obsolete with a OEM fix), but I also don't want to replace it right now and void my warranty...


When the seal head starts to leak, the symptoms generally is harshness in gnar (lowers filled w oil from damper) and a squishy sound. You can wait for it. Youll need a bleed kit to do the replacement.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Hello guys
where I can find an RC cartdrige for the Pike?
Cheers


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

H00rst said:


> Hello guys
> where I can find an RC cartdrige for the Pike?
> Cheers


Amazon.com : RockShox Pike RC A1 Compression Damper Motion Control DNA Crown Adjust : Bike Suspension And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I find it interesting Pike owners are taking this all so well. So you go buy a $700 fork, then need to modify it to work correctly...ohh, and if you aren't of typical weight, you should really think about the $200+ Avy kit...and if you really want a nice fork, well you might as well just set aside $1,000 total for the open bath kit. 

I have a Pike, and don't get me wrong....I like it. But just when you think that $700 should get you a really really nice fork that would be engineered to perform for years to come...you get f'd in the A with sub-par components.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

jonshonda said:


> I find it interesting Pike owners are taking this all so well. So you go buy a $700 fork, then need to modify it to work correctly...ohh, and if you aren't of typical weight, you should really think about the $200+ Avy kit...and if you really want a nice fork, well you might as well just set aside $1,000 total for the open bath kit.
> 
> I have a Pike, and don't get me wrong....I like it. But just when you think that $700 should get you a really really nice fork that would be engineered to perform for years to come...you get f'd in the A with sub-par components.


I like my Pike as well, worked flawlessy for months. No need to use the modified seal, nor the Avalanche cartdrige.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

H00rst said:


> I like my Pike as well, worked flawlessy for months. No need to use the modified seal, nor the Avalanche cartdrige.


I got my RCT3 for less than $700 (great backcountry deal) but I would have happily paid 700. 
I think it's a product that easily lives up to its hype. 
Stiff, light, supple when need it/supportive when you need it. Bottomless tokens are a groundbreaking idea. 
I've had zero issues with mine. 
PLUS, and this is big for someone like me who likes to work on their own stuff, the Pike and I think RS products in general, are a breeze to work on and get parts for. 
The ability to bleed your own damper means I never have to send in my fork for service. 
I'm sure the new Fox forks are as amazing as everyone is saying but I don't see myself leaving Pike forks any time soon.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I love mine as well and I think the thing to keep in mind is that the new seal head is not something that needs replaced immediately but once you are doing service anyway. As for the avy mods, I will be sticking with the stock charger.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Yes, RS suspensions are easy to service DIY and this is the reason why I want to stay with RS.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

bing! said:


> Amazon.com : RockShox Pike RC A1 Compression Damper Motion Control DNA Crown Adjust : Bike Suspension And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors


Thank you, not sure however if it is a Charger Damper. According to the description seems like a Motion Control. I have a Pike RC with the Charger.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Yea either the picture is wrong or the title description.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> I find it interesting Pike owners are taking this all so well. So you go buy a $700 fork, then need to modify it to work correctly...ohh, and if you aren't of typical weight, you should really think about the $200+ Avy kit...and if you really want a nice fork, well you might as well just set aside $1,000 total for the open bath kit.
> 
> I have a Pike, and don't get me wrong....I like it. But just when you think that $700 should get you a really really nice fork that would be engineered to perform for years to come...you get f'd in the A with sub-par components.


where the manufacturer and I come from is that we saw a weakness, and addressed it. if you never need the seal head, good for you. if you use the fork and can identify with the issues presented, we offer a solution.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

jonshonda said:


> I find it interesting Pike owners are taking this all so well. So you go buy a $700 fork, then need to modify it to work correctly...ohh, and if you aren't of typical weight, you should really think about the $200+ Avy kit...and if you really want a nice fork, well you might as well just set aside $1,000 total for the open bath kit.
> 
> I have a Pike, and don't get me wrong....I like it. But just when you think that $700 should get you a really really nice fork that would be engineered to perform for years to come...you get f'd in the A with sub-par components.


But that is true with everyone it seems. Fox, Manitou, Marzocchi, all have big QC issues. I think everything was once better made. I sound like a grumpy old man but I still have two Judy's from the 90's that still work perfectly (one with the old plastic cartridge no less!) but I can't get more than 2 years on a Fox CSU without fox saying there is stanchion wear. Or, having to deal with my less than year old Reba sucking down every 4-6 months or having to bleed a brand new Mattoc to remove the over-filled damper. QC now a days stinks. We pay for profit, not for better quality.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

jonshonda, I completely understand your point of view. For me, I just deal with it. I like riding too much. For the most part, I think SRAM got it right with the Pike. I never ride suspension in its stock form. I'm too heavy. I fluxuate between 225-250 geared up. Such is life. I do run the Avy charger mod. I love it, but someone like me pretty much needs it if you are going to be dropping or jumping 3ft+. 

As for the critical seal head that SRAM absolutely failed on, I would agree with your points. SRAM dropped the ball here on a very important part. Thankfully, NSD made a new one that is significantly better. I find this to be a "glass half full" situation. The fact that it is so easy these days to find people that have solutions to problems such as this still amazes me. I'm happy that I don't have to wait for SRAM to solve the problem. I'm happy there is already one in place. So I spend another $70. Big deal. I love to ride and this will help me stay on my bike instead of waiting for parts or wrenching. Time is money. I'd rather spend my free time riding.


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## rug (Apr 25, 2015)

Vespasianus said:


> We pay for profit, not for better quality.


Damn..well said, well said..*claps

That pretty much sums it up.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

new Lyrik built with skf sealed seal head confirming old charger design had its weakness. just exchanged notes with NSD. we will continue to make the NSD seal head available as it continues to be a cost effective solution to a real issue.

First Ride: RockShox Lyrik RCT3 - Mountain Bikes Features - Vital MTB


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Hi Bing!
Does the NSD seal come with extra replacement seals (I saw a bag in a photo on the net somewhere)? If not, where can we purchase extra seals? Also, will this fit in the Boxxer Charger damper? Apologies if it missed it somewhere in the threads.
Thanks!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Aresab said:


> Hi Bing!
> Does the NSD seal come with extra replacement seals (I saw a bag in a photo on the net somewhere)? If not, where can we purchase extra seals? Also, will this fit in the Boxxer Charger damper? Apologies if it missed it somewhere in the threads.
> Thanks!


The seal heads are rebuildable. I have specs for them so you can order from an industrial supplier, or for convenience I can sell complete sets for about 10 dollars. I havent thought out the retailing of rebuild kits as they are expected to last a few years.


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

Ordered my NSD Charger Cartridge Sealhead,should be fitting it in a few weeks with a full service ,should be 1 less thing to be paranoid about lol 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

So. The 2016 pike fixes this problem. Is it better to get the 2015 fork or pay 200 more for the 2016 fork? Maybe buy the 2015 for under 700 and the nbd kit for how much?

Thought?


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

Derek200 said:


> So. The 2016 pike fixes this problem. Is it better to get the 2015 fork or pay 200 more for the 2016 fork? Maybe buy the 2015 for under 700 and the nbd kit for how much?
> 
> Thought?


If you look at the "2014-Present Pike Service Manual" it gives the date/serial number that the new parts are fitted too and doesnt mention that just 2016s have them,not sure if that date is when the 2016s were availible or maybe some of the newer 2015s had them fitted!! If they did and your going to buy from a local bike store could be worth looking at the serial numbers...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Well this sucks I have one of the newer Pikes with the fugly stickers without the updated internals.


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Well this sucks I have one of the newer Pikes with the fugly stickers without the updated internals.


What serial number do you have ?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Joss002 said:


> What serial number do you have ?


16t5


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

bdundee said:


> 16t5


Damn !! looks like you missed out by 10 weeks


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## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

Does anyone know if the updated damper seal head is fitted on the 2016 26" pike? I had read somewhere else that they didn't have enough space for the new design.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I was reading the service guide earlier this week, if you use the updated seal head on a 26er, you have to replace the cartridge if the manufacture date is before a certain date.


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## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

Aresab said:


> I was reading the service guide earlier this week, if you use the updated seal head on a 26er, you have to replace the cartridge if the manufacture date is before a certain date.


So a pre-upgrade Pike is theoretically upgradeable to the latest design, but requires a whole new cartridge?

Wonder if SRAM will do that upgrade under warranty when fork gets sent in. Do they consider it a warranty issue if the damper leaks oil/allows air penetration?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I don't have a link, it's in one of the threads. Not the whole damper, just the cartridge tube. You can also look into the seal head Bing! sells, I will be trying one out in a few weeks.

Edit :found the link : https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...n_0000000004461_rev_c_2014_-_present_pike.pdf


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Aresab said:


> I don't have a link, it's in one of the threads. Not the whole damper, just the cartridge tube. You can also look into the seal head Bing! sells, I will be trying one out in a few weeks.
> 
> Edit :found the link : https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...n_0000000004461_rev_c_2014_-_present_pike.pdf


I haven't seen a new version charger damper, but by with the news that's trickling in, older Pikes are afforded a more cost effective solution with the NS Dynamics seal head install and bleed, than a full charger damper disassembly, main tube replacement, and bleed.

Can't wait to actually see one come in the shop for an inspection.

I just put in a new order of seal heads as I think folks will still be looking into our solution.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I'm guessing they just updated the seal head. Unfortunately older 26er Pikes need a new cartridge tube to run the new seal head as per that manual. Not sure why though.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

So if I've got a 29er with the old internals it shouldn't matter if I buy the nsd seal or the new RS one? Either way it's just a seal head and not a new damper tube assembly?


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Aresab said:


> I'm guessing they just updated the seal head. Unfortunately older 26er Pikes need a new cartridge tube to run the new seal head as per that manual. Not sure why though.


Because the new sealhead is longer.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

bing! said:


> I haven't seen a new version charger damper, but by with the news that's trickling in, older Pikes are afforded a more cost effective solution with the NS Dynamics seal head install and bleed, than a full charger damper disassembly, main tube replacement, and bleed.
> 
> Can't wait to actually see one come in the shop for an inspection.
> 
> I just put in a new order of seal heads as I think folks will still be looking into our solution.


Will this seal head work in 26 pike?

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jazzanova said:


> Will this seal head work in 26 pike?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk


the nsd seal head works wuth the 26 inch pike.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Hey Bing, does the NSD seal head also work with the Boxxer? If so, may look into NSD after I test mine out in the Pike.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Aresab said:


> Hey Bing, does the NSD seal head also work with the Boxxer? If so, may look into NSD after I test mine out in the Pike.


Yes it does.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well my Charger is sucking air again. Big slurpy noise if I increase the rebound. I don't know how to keep this thing sealed or where it's sucking in the air from, but I'm reaching the end of my patience.


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## Martin6 (Jul 11, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Well my Charger is sucking air again. Big slurpy noise if I increase the rebound. I don't know how to keep this thing sealed or where it's sucking in the air from, but I'm reaching the end of my patience.


That's a bummer. Time to go with the Avalanche open bath cartridge?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Jayem said:


> Well my Charger is sucking air again. Big slurpy noise if I increase the rebound. I don't know how to keep this thing sealed or where it's sucking in the air from, but I'm reaching the end of my patience.


sending pm


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Question for you guys. I bought a 2016 pike 140 off of eBay. I asked the seller if it was a 140 fork as well as if the serial number was greater than 26t5. He confirmed both before the purchase. The fork arrived today and the serial number is 16t5 and I'm not sure it's a 140 fork.

There is a stamp under the crown that shows 51 and 014 but on the fork there is a sag chart for 150 and 160mm. But not for 140mm.

Thoughts?


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## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

Derek200 said:


> The fork arrived today and the serial number is 16t5 and I'm not sure it's a 140 fork.


Not sure about the travel question (though I would guess its 160mm fork based on those markings), but my 2015 Pike 26" 160 has a serial number that begins 16T5, so I would say that is not a 2016 fork, which IMO is enough of a reason to request a refund since it is not what you asked for.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Well. I don't think anything made for the next 20 weeks or so could be a 2016 then. I just assumed they started calling them 2016 forks at some point in the manufacturing process. But you might be right? Maybe I should call rockshox?


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## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

26T5 is the cut off date where the service manual states that the new damper seal head starting getting used in the fork. I would seem that this coincides with the first batch of what they are calling 2016 Pikes, but nobody has confirmed this one way or another. So it could be that some 2016s were released without that change, but that really doesn't make any sense to me.

Do you have the "new style" decals on the fork? That would be another indicator. 

Wouldn't hurt to call RS and ask. They could tell you exactly what fork it is.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Are these new or old style stickers?


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

These are 2016 stickers


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## jminus (Sep 4, 2008)

H00rst said:


> These are 2016 stickers


Yep.

Looks like you have an example of 2016 fork without the new seal head. Makes me wonder if I have my serial number wrong. Mine is definitely 2015 decals.

Regardless, if the manual is to be believed, you won't have the new seal head in that fork.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

And is it a 140?


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

If the seal is about even with the 10% marking on the 150mm scale then you've got a 140mm.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Is it odd not to have a sag chart for 140?


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Not really. Mine was a 160 that I swapped the air spring to make it 140. I think I even remember someone saying their stock 140 didn't have sag markings at all.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

I'll measure the travel tonight. Then my only beef with the seller would be the date of manufacture.


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## m789 (Jul 19, 2013)

"Old" 140s are without sag markings, it has been discussed in the pike thread, a few years ago.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I just did the lower leg service as well as the air spring service, and notice the seal head was very sloppy on the charger damper side. I could jiggle the shaft around maybe 3-4mm vs very little play on the air side. 

I don't know how RS can feel good about selling a fork for close to $1k retail, and have it be so poorly engineered. Time to place an order with Avy for the Open Bath kit.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

I measured the travel last night and it came in at around 154mm


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

The NSD seal heads are back in stock on Amazon. Also now offering ND seal head rebuild kits. 

Cheers!


----------



## dabuttrumpet (Jul 1, 2013)

bing! said:


> The NSD seal heads are back in stock on Amazon. Also now offering ND seal head rebuild kits.
> 
> Cheers!


Rebuilt my Pike with the NSD seal that you overnighted to my house. There was air caught in my damper, and once I added the seal and bled it, the fork feels 100% different. Before, I couldn't get into the last 2" of travel and I could never figure out why, but now the Pike feels like it should. Thanks bing! for your quick shipment and responses.

Where can one buy a spare rebuild kit?


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

bing! said:


> The NSD seal heads are back in stock on Amazon. Also now offering ND seal head rebuild kits.
> 
> Cheers!


Is the seal available for shipment in Europe?


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Do I need to disassemble all the charger damper parts in order to fit the new seal or a simple swap and bleed will be enough? Not sure about this because if I see at the SRAM manual, one should disassemble all the parts of the damper, then reassemble the lower, pour the oil, then reassemble the upper part and pour again the oil.

I'm so confused!

Another question is about the spring service. In the most recent Pike manual there is a section about the spring seal head. Is this related to the Pike 2016 or it apply to the 2014 too? And where I can find an updated spring seal head?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

dabuttrumpet said:


> Rebuilt my Pike with the NSD seal that you overnighted to my house. There was air caught in my damper, and once I added the seal and bled it, the fork feels 100% different. Before, I couldn't get into the last 2" of travel and I could never figure out why, but now the Pike feels like it should. Thanks bing! for your quick shipment and responses.
> 
> Where can one buy a spare rebuild kit?


The last 2 inches was prevented by oil in the lowers from the damper. It doesnt take much.

The rebuild kits are available direct and will be on Amazon in a couple of weeks. Dont worry too much about rebuilding the seal heads. I expect them to last more than a couple of seasons.

I am glad you got the seal head ASAP.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

H00rst said:


> Do I need to disassemble all the charger damper parts in order to fit the new seal or a simple swap and bleed will be enough? Not sure about this because if I see at the SRAM manual, one should disassemble all the parts of the damper, then reassemble the lower, pour the oil, then reassemble the upper part and pour again the oil.
> 
> I'm so confused!
> 
> Another question is about the spring service. In the most recent Pike manual there is a section about the spring seal head. Is this related to the Pike 2016 or it apply to the 2014 too? And where I can find an updated spring seal head?


The seal head is available to you. I'll ship cost plus shipping. PM me.

To install the seal head, you need to pull the damper off the fork, remove the old seal head, replace the rebound shaft into the new seal head, install, bleed the damper and reinstall to fork.

Bing


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Thank you!


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Hi Bing!
can I order the seal head via the NSD site - I need it to be shipped to Israel.
Thanks,
Paul


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

paulki said:


> Hi Bing!
> can I order the seal head via the NSD site - I need it to be shipped to Israel.
> Thanks,
> Paul


definitely. if shipping from australia works for you, Aaron and his team will get your order out pronto!


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## slider_phil (Aug 27, 2014)

m789 said:


> "Old" 140s are without sag markings, it has been discussed in the pike thread, a few years ago.


Interesting. I bought my Pike two months ago from Chain Reaction Cycles (140mm 29" Pike 51mm offset) and it doesn't have a sag indicator. Guessing this means it's a 2015 or earlier?

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

My 2014 29er 140mm from CR didn't have markings either. I thought it was just OEM stock but it came in original packaging with shock pump and seal kit.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Well this fork has markings on the crown that indicate it is a 140. But the A2c and travel measurements indicate that it is a 150.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

as a data point, I just got a 2016 150mm 27.5 rct3 with a serial number 15t. I'm almost tempted to tear it apart and have bing! look at the seal head since I'm local to him (RIP STR). But if it ain't broke.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Let us know minimus.


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## Martin6 (Jul 11, 2006)

bing! said:


> The NSD seal heads are back in stock on Amazon. Also now offering ND seal head rebuild kits.
> 
> Cheers!


Perfect! I need to order another seal head for my other Pike.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

minimusprime said:


> as a data point, I just got a 2016 150mm 27.5 rct3 with a serial number 15t. I'm almost tempted to tear it apart and have bing! look at the seal head since I'm local to him (RIP STR). But if it ain't broke.


I agree. If it aint broke, don't. The failure rate of the original seal heads are less than 30-40%. Where I would consider preempting it is if I were going on a bike trip that involves investment of time and money. Insurance.


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## FastBanana (Aug 29, 2013)

I had my RCT3 Dampner fail. Lost fluid.


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## simonhuscroft (Sep 29, 2008)

Bit of an update re a new set of pikes (serial no beginning 17t5):

Used for a couple of local rides then over the weekend had the usual harsh feeling and lack of compression adjust. Exactly the sme feeling as my first set which were replaced with these new ones under warranty. 

If the 17t5 indicates that this is a new, new set the updated seal assembly may not have fixed things, if they have it. 

Note this is a 26'' 150 mm rct3 version.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

simonhuscroft said:


> Bit of an update re a new set of pikes (serial no beginning 17t5):
> 
> Used for a couple of local rides then over the weekend had the usual harsh feeling and lack of compression adjust. Exactly the sme feeling as my first set which were replaced with these new ones under warranty.
> 
> ...


17th week of 2015 and the "T" is the plant origin. That's interesting the new ones are doing the same thing. Mine is a pre-countermeasure seal head manufacture (09T4). Confidence date of counter measure is around 24T4. I installed a post countermeasure seal head from a 25T4 manufacturered pile and it's good for initial ride or part of it and the harshness, small bump compliance issues return. While I do not currently visually see an inflamed bladder with air ingestion like I did with the pre c/m seal head, something still is not performing on the damper front. Bleeding the damper and re-lubing stanchion seals and lower oil, feels like new butter but that fades after a hard run.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

simonhuscroft said:


> Bit of an update re a new set of pikes (serial no beginning 17t5):
> 
> Used for a couple of local rides then over the weekend had the usual harsh feeling and lack of compression adjust. Exactly the sme feeling as my first set which were replaced with these new ones under warranty.
> 
> ...


Only forks after 26T5 will have the updates.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Techspec360 said:


> 17th week of 2015 and the "T" is the plant origin. That's interesting the new ones are doing the same thing. Mine is a pre-countermeasure seal head manufacture (09T4). Confidence date of counter measure is around 24T4. I installed a post countermeasure seal head from a 25T4 manufacturered pile and it's good for initial ride or part of it and the harshness, small bump compliance issues return. While I do not currently visually see an inflamed bladder with air ingestion like I did with the pre c/m seal head, something still is not performing on the damper front. Bleeding the damper and re-lubing stanchion seals and lower oil, feels like new butter but that fades after a hard run.


Countermeasure sealhead? What the hell are you talking about?


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## simonhuscroft (Sep 29, 2008)

Rick Draper said:


> Only forks after 26T5 will have the updates.


Ok.

Fishers the UK distributes have been great in dealing with me over the last set but I'm yet to hear from them over this pair.

Wondering if the NSD assembly will solve the issues for a reasonable length of time or if it's worth looking at a different manufacturer?

I have no idea how more people haven't complained about this issue or if people just don't realise it's happening?


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

My NSD seal head arrived woohoo :thumbsup: but got stung for £15.55 by Customs GRRRRR :madman: lol .
Cant complain though its been a couple of years since I got hit by them.
Now just need a few more hours on the forks and its full service time.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Well. I returned the fork. It was definitely a 150. The seller checked with RS and they have said that updated seal heads are on shocks after 17t. And that nothing newer than that is available in the U.S. 

Can someone confirm what the source of the 26t info was?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Derek200 said:


> Well. I returned the fork. It was definitely a 150. The seller checked with RS and they have said that updated seal heads are on shocks after 17t. And that nothing newer than that is available in the U.S.
> 
> Can someone confirm what the source of the 26t info was?


The SRAM Tech documents.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Hmm. Seems sketchy.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Derek200 said:


> Hmm. Seems sketchy.


What the advice off tech docs or the advice off the tech you spoke to?



sramtechdocs said:


> Manufacturing date code after 26T5: Place a 21 mm open end wrench on the wrench flats of the cartridge tube. Place a 23 mm open end wrench on the damper seal head.
> Holding the cartridge tube in place, turn the damper seal head counter- clockwise to loosen and remove the rebound assembly.
> NOTICE
> Forks with a manufacturing date code after 26T5 have the most recent performance upgrades, and it is not necessary to replace the damper components unless they are damaged or worn.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Well. I didn't speak to RS. The seller I bought fork from did.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

tacubaya said:


> Countermeasure sealhead? What the hell are you talking about?


There was a design change to remove excess flashing. Don't be an ass hat since you don't understand manufacturing jargon.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

What's an ass hat


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Derek200 said:


> What's an ass hat


One who has their head up their ass. Thus wearing their ass as a hat.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

26T5 would be a current model year production so maybe there was a damper cartridge change made?

The original date I received was from Rockshox tech line. 24T4 but who knows


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## inner ted (Jan 7, 2014)

Techspec360 said:


> 26T5 would be a current model year production so maybe there was a damper cartridge change made?
> 
> The original date I received was from Rockshox tech line. 24T4 but who knows


so if I send my fork in for service, will they (my LBS just sends them out to a service center) automatically use the new & bestest seal? cheers!
/don't have # but bought it in DEC '13
/second time now my lockout doesn't work, but i rarely stand to climb, so i keep riding it as I still get full travel... though that travel doesn't feel as smooth as i used to
/these come in threes


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

I wonder when the SKF sealed units will become available aftermarket, pinkbike was saying it's an August changeover


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

My experience testing Racing Brothers seals is that seals are interchangeable. I'm almost positive you can use Zokes SKF seals in 35 on a Pike.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Techspec360 said:


> 26T5 would be a current model year production so maybe there was a damper cartridge change made?
> 
> The original date I received was from Rockshox tech line. 24T4 but who knows


what the last sentence was supposed to say exactly?
that they started to fit new sealheads actually from 24T4?

Also, what is considered a 2015 model when bought in 2014? In particular, would 26T14 be considered 2015 model?
Any ideas?


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Also how does RS number their weeks? When do they start fiscal year. If they start in jan, then July would represent Wk 27 (-approx). But many companies start their FY at another date


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

paulki said:


> what the last sentence was supposed to say exactly?
> that they started to fit new sealheads actually from 24T4?
> 
> Also, what is considered a 2015 model when bought in 2014? In particular, would 26T14 be considered 2015 model?
> Any ideas?


The date I stated was the production date that the new design seal head was allegedly implemented. That # would be a '14 model year.

With your problem, there should be no issues with them sending it to RS or RS sending charge damper or parts to repair your issue. 2 yr warranty


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

baltik said:


> I wonder when the SKF sealed units will become available aftermarket, pinkbike was saying it's an August changeover


Updated sealhead will be included in the revised service kit.

For Solo Air forks the upgraded service kit is 11.4018.027.003
For Dual position forks the upgraded service kit is 11.4018.027.004


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

So I am confused. The tech document says performance upgrades were made as of 26T5. But it doesn't specify seal head. Could they be referencing something else?

Also - does anyone actually have a serial number post 26T5?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Techspec360 said:


> The date I stated was the production date that the new design seal head was allegedly implemented. That # would be a '14 model year.
> 
> With your problem, there should be no issues with them sending it to RS or RS sending charge damper or parts to repair your issue. 2 yr warranty


You are talking about a updated seal for the standard seal head that only partially fixed the problem and is still hit and miss.

The new seal head uses a totally different seal head and seal.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Techspec360 said:


> There was a design change to remove excess flashing. Don't be an ass hat since you don't understand manufacturing jargon.


1) The sealhead and seal didn't change in design until 26T5. Trelleborg manufactured the first batch of seals with excessive flash and the second batch was done properly, thus it's not a countermeasure.

2) Rock Shox has a feature called Countermeasure, which is a sealhead with a spring (used on the Vivid shocks), thus calling the Pike sealhead a "countermeasure sealhead" implies that it shares the same feature. Be careful how you use your "manufacturing jargon".


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Techspec360 said:


> 26T5 would be a current model year production so maybe there was a damper cartridge change made?
> 
> The original date I received was from Rockshox tech line. 24T4 but who knows


You're confusing everyone.

Here is how it goes everyone:

Sealhead V1 had a Trelleborg seal. First batch of seals (used until mid 2014, ergo 24T4) had excessive flash on the oil seal lip, second batch (24T4 up to 25T5) had no flash.

Sealhead V2 is different than V1 in construction and also seal provider (now SKF), it comes on 26T5 and newer Pikes.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Joss002 said:


> My NSD seal head arrived woohoo :thumbsup: but got stung for £15.55 by Customs GRRRRR :madman: lol .
> Cant complain though its been a couple of years since I got hit by them.
> Now just need a few more hours on the forks and its full service time.





tacubaya said:


> You're confusing everyone.
> 
> Here is how it goes everyone:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the clear explanation, finally! the other's explanation was indeed very confusing...
Now, mine is 22T4 which b.t.w was sold to me as a 15' model by bike24.de last year...
It's obviously V1 with excessive flush. 
So, what are the symptoms (apart from, I assume, play in the charger shaft)?
Am I 'elligible' asking RS to send me a V2 sealhead and a new charger tube (mine is 26" so requires that too)?
And, are there any evidence that new sealhead has solved the known issues, or I am better spending another 70$ on NSD headseal?
Thanks in advance for advice.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

tacubaya said:


> You're confusing everyone.
> 
> Here is how it goes everyone:
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how I was confusing everyone. I've been saying the same thing you did minus the intel of the V2 seal head.

You mention date code 26T6 implementation of V2, this would indicate a 2016 production?? That is confusing.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Does the year reflect calendar year or fiscal year?


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

So I worked on my Pike This weekend, just added another token to the air spring side, a low and behold when I took my Tranny 29 out for a ride today I noticed the charger lockout lever was rattling it no longer has a tight positive click between open pedal and lockout. It rotates but it seems the dampening is not working either, thoughts? I'm thinking about airing it downs and cycling the fork to see if it frees something up.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Techspec360 said:


> I'm not sure how I was confusing everyone. I've been saying the same thing you did minus the intel of the V2 seal head.
> 
> You mention date code 26T6 implementation of V2, this would indicate a 2016 production?? That is confusing.


Yeah, typo. 26T5 (2015 manufacturing, 2016 product). It has been corrected.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> So I worked on my Pike This weekend, just added another token to the air spring side, a low and behold when I took my Tranny 29 out for a ride today I noticed the charger lockout lever was rattling it no longer has a tight positive click between open pedal and lockout. It rotates but it seems the dampening is not working either, thoughts? I'm thinking about airing it downs and cycling the fork to see if it frees something up.


The lever has come loose. remove the 2mm allen bolt for the LSC adjuster and you will see a 7mm nut, I bet that nut has come loose.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Ramjm_2000 said:


> So I worked on my Pike This weekend, just added another token to the air spring side, a low and behold when I took my Tranny 29 out for a ride today I noticed the charger lockout lever was rattling it no longer has a tight positive click between open pedal and lockout. It rotates but it seems the dampening is not working either, thoughts? I'm thinking about airing it downs and cycling the fork to see if it frees something up.


The HSC knob relies on friction to move the shaft it connects too. if the knob is loose it can't work. you will need to remove the LSC and HSC knobs and setup as per manual. it can be tricky and might take a few goes 
to grt it right.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

Has anyone re-tuned their rebound from the factory medium setting to either soft or firm? This is on page 32 of the service manual. I am thinking of going to soft.


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

Rick 

You were spot on. I tightened the nut and everything worked again. However I adjusted the LSC audit came loose again. My normal 7mm socket is too big to fit, what tool are you guys using?

Update: Solved my own problem. In the depths of my tool cart I found an old craftsman 7mm socket driver works like a charm.


----------



## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Anyone out there have experience using both the 2014 Pike + NSD sealhead, AND the newer Pikes with the updated RS SKF sealheads? It would be great to hear feedback comparing the two.

I have a pre-v2 Pike and am deciding between getting an NSD or waiting for the updated RS service kits to become available.


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## Laterilus (Aug 13, 2010)

Been meaning to give an update but needed some time on the NSD seal head before making a final judgement. For those of you with a Pike without the updated parts, the NSD seal head is a worthwhile investment. 

I have roughly 20 hours on the fresh rebuild on my Pike since installing the NSD seal head and my fork still feels consistent. So it has performed exactly as intended. I wouldn't look at the NSD seal head as a performance upgrade (seems like some are here), but look at it as a design fix to make the Pike perform as it was intended. 

First thing I noticed was how much easier it was to bleed the charger damper. Used to take me a very long time because I would suck in air through the terrible RS seal head. Not so with the NSD. took no time at all to bleed and the damper felt extremely smooth with no air when complete. I also used this fork for 3 days straight of lift access DH at Trestle and Keystone. No issues. Fork still performing strong and no leaking oil from the damper. Couldn't be more pleased.


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Laterilus said:


> Been meaning to give an update but needed some time on the NSD seal head before making a final judgement. For those of you with a Pike without the updated parts, the NSD seal head is a worthwhile investment.
> 
> I have roughly 20 hours on the fresh rebuild on my Pike since installing the NSD seal head and my fork still feels consistent. So it has performed exactly as intended. I wouldn't look at the NSD seal head as a performance upgrade (seems like some are here), but look at it as a design fix to make the Pike perform as it was intended.
> 
> First thing I noticed was how much easier it was to bleed the charger damper. Used to take me a very long time because I would suck in air through the terrible RS seal head. Not so with the NSD. took no time at all to bleed and the damper felt extremely smooth with no air when complete. I also used this fork for 3 days straight of lift access DH at Trestle and Keystone. No issues. Fork still performing strong and no leaking oil from the damper. Couldn't be more pleased.


I'd say that's spot on  We expect the seal heads to last a couple of seasons, but as a measure of support for the product, we now offer rebuild kits. Thanks for the review.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Laterilus said:


> Been meaning to give an update but needed some time on the NSD seal head before making a final judgement. For those of you with a Pike without the updated parts, the NSD seal head is a worthwhile investment.
> 
> I have roughly 20 hours on the fresh rebuild on my Pike since installing the NSD seal head and my fork still feels consistent. So it has performed exactly as intended. I wouldn't look at the NSD seal head as a performance upgrade (seems like some are here), but look at it as a design fix to make the Pike perform as it was intended.
> 
> First thing I noticed was how much easier it was to bleed the charger damper. Used to take me a very long time because I would suck in air through the terrible RS seal head. Not so with the NSD. took no time at all to bleed and the damper felt extremely smooth with no air when complete. I also used this fork for 3 days straight of lift access DH at Trestle and Keystone. No issues. Fork still performing strong and no leaking oil from the damper. Couldn't be more pleased.


Sounds like a carbon copy of my experience. I have fitted the NSD seal head to both my bikes with 2014 Pikes and have around 800km on my 29er 140mm forks. They feel like they need a lower leg service but damper performing as good as it was when rebuilt. Bought a second hand pair of 160mm 27.5 Pikes and they had damper side leg full of oil and loads of air in damper. I rode them as is for a couple of rides and they felt terrible. After I rebuilt them they were transformed. I also run RS 2.5wt oil in the damper. Makes a slight difference on the square hits.


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## Charlo489 (Apr 23, 2013)

so I've read this whole thread after buying my new devinci troy 2015 equipped with a 150mm dual position RC. The serial starts with 15T5. Does it mean I have the cheap seal head ? Is that under warranty ? My fork seems to be working fine but I'm totally new to the pike.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

I think the jury is out on that question. I ordered a fork from Colorado cyclist. I had asked them to ensure the serial number was after 26T. They sent the wrong travel fork. And the serial number was 16t. 

They have been talking with RS and it seems there are no non oem shocks in the U.S. Past 26t. And apparently the v2 seals are in these earlier dated 2016 forks. But. I am slightly skeptical


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Charlo489 said:


> so I've read this whole thread after buying my new devinci troy 2015 equipped with a 150mm dual position RC. The serial starts with 15T5. Does it mean I have the cheap seal head ? Is that under warranty ? My fork seems to be working fine but I'm totally new to the pike.


Your not going to get problems straight away if you have the old seal head. It will take some time to wear it out and leak oil into your lowers. Check service manual for serial number breaks. You would need to contact RS directly to see if they will offer you an upgrade to the new one if needed. Id say read up on some Pike setup forums and get out and enjoy the awesome fork rhat it is. Dont worry about the seal head yet. You will know when it needs replacing and it wont just give out on you mid ride.


----------



## Charlo489 (Apr 23, 2013)

niva, thanks for the clarification ! I'll next year if I ever have some problems. However, how am I supposed to contact RS ? I've checked their website and there are no emails whatsoever, they want you to contact a dealer


----------



## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Laterilus said:


> Been meaning to give an update but needed some time on the NSD seal head before making a final judgement. For those of you with a Pike without the updated parts, the NSD seal head is a worthwhile investment.
> 
> I have roughly 20 hours on the fresh rebuild on my Pike since installing the NSD seal head and my fork still feels consistent. So it has performed exactly as intended. I wouldn't look at the NSD seal head as a performance upgrade (seems like some are here), but look at it as a design fix to make the Pike perform as it was intended.
> 
> First thing I noticed was how much easier it was to bleed the charger damper. Used to take me a very long time because I would suck in air through the terrible RS seal head. Not so with the NSD. took no time at all to bleed and the damper felt extremely smooth with no air when complete. I also used this fork for 3 days straight of lift access DH at Trestle and Keystone. No issues. Fork still performing strong and no leaking oil from the damper. Couldn't be more pleased.





niva1989 said:


> Sounds like a carbon copy of my experience. I have fitted the NSD seal head to both my bikes with 2014 Pikes and have around 800km on my 29er 140mm forks. They feel like they need a lower leg service but damper performing as good as it was when rebuilt. Bought a second hand pair of 160mm 27.5 Pikes and they had damper side leg full of oil and loads of air in damper. I rode them as is for a couple of rides and they felt terrible. After I rebuilt them they were transformed. I also run RS 2.5wt oil in the damper. Makes a slight difference on the square hits.


Thanks for the update guys. Good info, NSD seal head in order as well.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Charlo489 said:


> niva, thanks for the clarification ! I'll next year if I ever have some problems. However, how am I supposed to contact RS ? I've checked their website and there are no emails whatsoever, they want you to contact a dealer


I live in Australia so support here is very difficult which is why I do everything myself. People keep saying in forums that they have spoken to Rockshox tech people so I assumed it was easy over there. Must be a number to call somewhere. 
Looked on website and says dealers only but maybe just try and say you havent had any luck with your local 
dealer so are calling direct. You only want to find out if they are offering an upgraded seal head under warranty or if you need to wait for it to stop functioning. 
Other you could do is spend hours searching forums but I would just wait a while and see if anyone posts here about getting the seal head done under warranty. 
Lastly you could just pull your lowers off and check 100% for peice of mind. I have read that some people have had new forks with no oil in the lowers. You would need some new crush washers and oil to do it. Not very technical to do.


----------



## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

just read in the service manual that it is not necessary to replace unless damaged or worn so I dont think you will get anywhere with them if you have the old style seal head which it looks like you might.


----------



## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

cycloxer13 said:


> Has anyone re-tuned their rebound from the factory medium setting to either soft or firm? This is on page 32 of the service manual. I am thinking of going to soft.


48T3 here...
I'm curious about the soft rebound tune, I'm 79kg ready to ride (173lbs) with a full pack. I'm 2 clicks from full open/fast on the rebound. I think I'd prefer a softer tune. I've had Dougal soften up compression stack already.


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Thank you for the wonderful reviews. We've just restocked our Amazon store. The seal heads will continue to be available, as well as rebuild kits. 

We do need more reviews on Amazon. If its not too much to ask, we'd like to request for reviews on there for anyone that bought off the big A.


----------



## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

Bought a used Pike from Ebay, and it rode harshly out of the box, displaying the symptoms attributed to air in the bladder. I was planning on lowering the travel to 120mm (from 140), so I ordered some of the SKF green seals and the NSD seal head - the latter after seeing oil seeping out around the shaft once apart. After working occasionally on it for a few weeks, I finally got it back together. It ain't a pretty fork (I did say bought "used") but it worked fantastically after all was said and done. All told I've sunk about $640 into this well-loved fork, though that includes a lot of extras: a bunch of tools, oils, extra tokens, Slick Honey, etc. Seems fair enough.

At one point over the summer, I had it parked upside down in a hotel room for a few days, and when it was time to check out there was residue / oil weeping on & around the damper lever. Now with ~12 rides on it since putting it back together, it's riding harshly again. I'm assuming/hoping that this time, air entered through some leaky seals on the top end of the damper (weepy orings). Sure, I should have rebuilt the entire damper while I had it out, rather than just installing the improved lower head seal. Going to do it soon.

Question: With oil leaking from the top while the bike is upside down, is it safe to assume this is damper oil, and not the oil from the lowers? If so, is there any specific oring in the damper assy that is the likely culprit? Lastly, I take it this is what I need?:
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=16210


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

What symptoms are these that you attribute to air in the damper? 

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I just had mine rebuilt because it was terrible and the shop who did it said my problems were due to air in the damper. They are fairly experienced as they are located near Northstar and rebuild these things every day. 

It was harsh, I could only get 50% travel even after taking some air out of the spring. Overall it was terrible and made familiar trails way sketchier as it felt like the front end was bouncing around unusually and I felt like I had far less grip. After the rebuild and it's like new again. Works great and I have full travel again. Much more plush and less bouncy.


----------



## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

alecd said:


> What symptoms are these that you attribute to air in the damper?


What litany said. Short version, the damping is shite. You can compress the fork manually by weighting and unweighting the front end but the fork is no longer plush over the smallest trail chatter and ruts; front wheel skips around a bit.


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

litany said:


> I just had mine rebuilt because it was terrible and the shop who did it said my problems were due to air in the damper. They are fairly experienced as they are located near Northstar and rebuild these things every day.
> 
> It was harsh, I could only get 50% travel even after taking some air out of the spring. Overall it was terrible and made familiar trails way sketchier as it felt like the front end was bouncing around unusually and I felt like I had far less grip. After the rebuild and it's like new again. Works great and I have full travel again. Much more plush and less bouncy.


if the original seal head was retained, and not rebuilt, expect to see the problem again.


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

At my case The lower seal was changed to double lip seal but problem recurred. Then I bled damper and put new seal on top, at compression needle and then it has worked ok. Too many seals, too many problems. I think that double lip creates extra friction and still not happy with Pike.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Nordic09 said:


> At my case The lower seal was changed to double lip seal but problem recurred. Then I bled damper and put new seal on top, at compression needle and then it has worked ok. Too many seals, too many problems. I think that double lip creates extra friction and still not happy with Pike.


New version, or our after market mod product?


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

After market seal, I change to new model seal when find one. Anyway after 36rc2 this fork is not amazing other than it rides higher. Probably try to find 2015 36 rc2.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Nordic09 said:


> After market seal, I change to new model seal when find one. Anyway after 36rc2 this fork is not amazing other than it rides higher. Probably try to find 2015 36 rc2.


The NSD seal head will break-in, just as any new seal will. As for the fix, good job on finding the cause and replacing the top seal. Was a leak evident at all on the top?


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

Ok let's hope it will break in. Pike sucked air in only when bike was inside car sideways, so I figured out that it must be one end seal of cartridge, and bottom seal was already changed. Also there will be some stress to that seal always during the oil change when you pull out that needle. Luckily I've performed many root cause analyses in process industry work 

Leak was not evident at top, only noticed that suddenly fork bottoms out and pressure increase did not help at all.

It is very complicated damper compared to older fox rc2 when looking amount of different seals.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Nordic09 said:


> Ok let's hope it will break in. Pike sucked air in only when bike was inside car sideways, so I figured out that it must be one end seal of cartridge, and bottom seal was already changed. Also there will be some stress to that seal always during the oil change when you pull out that needle. Luckily I've performed many root cause analyses in process industry work
> 
> Leak was not evident at top, only noticed that suddenly fork bottoms out and pressure increase did not help at all.
> 
> It is very complicated damper compared to older fox rc2 when looking amount of different seals.


If the fork damping is consistent, your bottoming issues may be pressure or air spring related.

I'm not actually aware at this point what issue your trying to resolve. The seal is there to address inconsistent damping from leaking damper oil and harshness that results from the lower leg filling up with damper oil.

I did a couple of seal head jobs last night. The combination of the larger bushing holding the shaft firmer, and the seals may appear to be tight, they are. But I did not observe excessive stiction in the motion that it's supposed to support and seal.

The original seal head is pretty loose in comparison.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm going to do my first oil and seal change on my Pike 2014 so sorry for this noob question.

When pouring the damper oil as displayed in step 6 it is not clear to me if all the oil goes outside or if I need to disassemble all the damper pieces in order to pour all the oil out.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

H00rst said:


> I'm going to do my first oil and seal change on my Pike 2014 so sorry for this noob question.
> 
> When pouring the damper oil as displayed in step 6 it is not clear to me if all the oil goes outside or if I need to disassemble all the damper pieces in order to pour all the oil out.
> 
> View attachment 1018997


If the fork is fairly new and not in need of a complete tear down, it is enough to pull the original seal head and pour the oil out. Before you reassemble, you can pour oil in the same way to ease the bleed process done later on top for final assembly.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

thank you!


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

It was air bubbles in my case, since bleeding fixed bottoming out problem twice. But since air was sucked in from top, there was probably not much excess oil at bottom legs. Today lbs told me that they can modify damping and make pike more sensitive from the top, I'm going to watch that card next to coming service.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

bing! said:


> If the fork is fairly new and not in need of a complete tear down, it is enough to pull the original seal head and pour the oil out. Before you reassemble, you can pour oil in the same way to ease the bleed process done later on top for final assembly.


If the fork is fairly new, does the oil need to be poured out at all?
Could the seal head and rebound shaft be removed with the damper upside down (bleed port facing floor). The new NSD seal head lubed and installed on rebound shaft, install shaft/seal head back into damper. Then bleed?

I'm asking since the Charger bleed kit only comes with 100ml of fluid.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

JoshM said:


> If the fork is fairly new, does the oil need to be poured out at all?
> Could the seal head and rebound shaft be removed with the damper upside down (bleed port facing floor). The new NSD seal head lubed and installed on rebound shaft, install shaft/seal head back into damper. Then bleed?
> 
> I'm asking since the Charger bleed kit only comes with 100ml of fluid.


You can do what you just described if oil is an issue. 3wt small bottle from RS is just enough to do the job. Be sure to pump the rebound shaft to get all the air to the top for a good bleed later in the process.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Nordic09 said:


> It was air bubbles in my case, since bleeding fixed bottoming out problem twice. But since air was sucked in from top, there was probably not much excess oil at bottom legs. Today lbs told me that they can modify damping and make pike more sensitive from the top, I'm going to watch that card next to coming service.


The charger damper is a sealed and bled unit. If air gets in, oil went out.

Hope you get it all worked out. All the best, Bing


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

JoshM said:


> If the fork is fairly new, does the oil need to be poured out at all?
> Could the seal head and rebound shaft be removed with the damper upside down (bleed port facing floor). The new NSD seal head lubed and installed on rebound shaft, install shaft/seal head back into damper. Then bleed?
> 
> I'm asking since the Charger bleed kit only comes with 100ml of fluid.


this is exactly what I want to do


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

H00rst said:


> this is exactly what I want to do


I just placed an order for the NSD seal head on the weekend. I've had the lowers off, and air spring apart on the fork, but never attempted to pull the damper out of the fork. This seal head replacement doesn't look too hard at all to complete. Remember you need two 21mm wrenches to remove the seal head from the damper cartridge. 
I've noticed the small bump compliance of the fork has gotten worse over 3-4 months of riding and the damper is making the squish/swoosh noise when compressed.

Did you buy a bleed kit? I'm thinking of going with the epicbleedsolutions one from the UK.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

JoshM said:


> I just placed an order for the NSD seal head on the weekend. I've had the lowers off, and air spring apart on the fork, but never attempted to pull the damper out of the fork. This seal head replacement doesn't look too hard at all to complete. Remember you need two 21mm wrenches to remove the seal head from the damper cartridge.
> I've noticed the small bump compliance of the fork has gotten worse over 3-4 months of riding and the damper is making the squish/swoosh noise when compressed.
> 
> Did you buy a bleed kit? I'm thinking of going with the epicbleedsolutions one from the UK.


yes I've got the original bleeding kit


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Interesting thread. I just got a Pike RC last night that has a unique issue... When I crank the knob all the way to lock and then compress, it takes the fork several cycles to finally feel the lockout engage. It also is sitting 5% into its travel and won't reach full extension unless I pressurize it up over 100. Brand new air internals, BTW.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

eicca said:


> Interesting thread. I just got a Pike RC last night that has a unique issue... When I crank the knob all the way to lock and then compress, it takes the fork several cycles to finally feel the lockout engage. It also is sitting 5% into its travel and won't reach full extension unless I pressurize it up over 100. Brand new air internals, BTW.


Seems like you two issues.

The inability to lockout sounds to me like the damper is low on oil. It's possible when you cycle it, the oil gets aerated and increases in volume allowing the lock out to work. If the lock out goes away in 10 minutes, that's probably it.

As for the missing travel. Sounds like you need to equalize the air spring. There is a lot of info on this forum on how to do that.

Good luck!


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

bing! said:


> Seems like you two issues.
> 
> The inability to lockout sounds to me like the damper is low on oil. It's possible when you cycle it, the oil gets aerated and increases in volume allowing the lock out to work. If the lock out goes away in 10 minutes, that's probably it.
> 
> ...


Short of a teardown I've tried everything possible to equalize the spring. I pumped it up to the limits and cycled it, let all the air out and cycled it, tried the zip-tie-in-the-wipers trick, no dice. It almost feels like really bad stiction but it's still missing travel even at 140psi so I think that inner port is all clogged up.

I wonder if shipping the fork from sea level to 5,000 feet caused the air inside the damper to expand or something.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

eicca said:


> Short of a teardown I've tried everything possible to equalize the spring. I pumped it up to the limits and cycled it, let all the air out and cycled it, tried the zip-tie-in-the-wipers trick, no dice. It almost feels like really bad stiction but it's still missing travel even at 140psi so I think that inner port is all clogged up.
> 
> I wonder if shipping the fork from sea level to 5,000 feet caused the air inside the damper to expand or something.


Dont waste anymore time. Just strip down and do a full rebuild. The seal kits are cheap and so are the tools to do it. RS service manual is awesome and it is easier than you might think. Read the manual first and if that looks daunting then maybe take it to someone reliable. If your near LA then take it to bing!


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Is it possible to use suspension oil instead of grease in the air spring side to avoid clogging the dimple? Also, can I access the dimple from the top cap, or does the whole thing need to come apart to get to it?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

eicca said:


> Is it possible to use suspension oil instead of grease in the air spring side to avoid clogging the dimple? Also, can I access the dimple from the top cap, or does the whole thing need to come apart to get to it?


Its rated for grease. I have used Fox Float fluid for those who need to have it oooh sooo supple  I wouldn't exptect it to last as long as grease, but enough to last through a service cycle.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

bing! said:


> Its rated for grease. I have used Fox Float fluid for those who need to have it oooh sooo supple  I wouldn't exptect it to last as long as grease, but enough to last through a service cycle.


Is the type of grease important? We have some White Lightning clear stuff at my shop that we use on just about everything; would that work?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I haven't been getting full travel lately. Did a minor service Tonight (lubed lowers, new wipers and air seals). I noticed that I can't easily compress the damper all the way. It gets very stiff with about 2" of travel left. 
Any ideas as to what could be causing this? 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

eicca said:


> Is the type of grease important? We have some White Lightning clear stuff at my shop that we use on just about everything; would that work?


I'm very careful to use fork grease on anything that touches o-rings. Judy Butter, SRAM Butter, Slickoleum, Buzzys Slick Honey, ParkerOlube. You never know when o-rings will degrade or swell using other lubricants.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

rollertoaster said:


> I haven't been getting full travel lately. Did a minor service Tonight (lubed lowers, new wipers and air seals). I noticed that I can't easily compress the damper all the way. It gets very stiff with about 2" of travel left.
> Any ideas as to what could be causing this?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


How are you doing the damper test? Did you pull the damper out of the fork? Is it in the fork and you just released all the pressure off the air spring? Did you take off the air spring top cap?

Many factors to consider when doing tests. Without knowing, hard to tell.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Sorry, I should have clarified. The damper was out of the fork. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

The damper feels normal for about 4" then like a on/off switch gets extremely stiff. I can compress it further, but it requires way more force after that point. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rollertoaster said:


> I haven't been getting full travel lately. Did a minor service Tonight (lubed lowers, new wipers and air seals). I noticed that I can't easily compress the damper all the way. It gets very stiff with about 2" of travel left.
> Any ideas as to what could be causing this?
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


Possible that it's suck in air and pumped itself up?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

That's what I'm thinking. I'll bleed it as a test. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

rollertoaster said:


> That's what I'm thinking. I'll bleed it as a test.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


The Charger damper has no bottom out system I am aware off. If the damper resist bottoming, it will need a looking into. Can't help much further without an inspection.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Is it possible the bladder is somehow overfull and grabbing the stanchion wall when compressed?


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

bing! said:


> I'm very careful to use fork grease on anything that touches o-rings. Judy Butter, SRAM Butter, Slickoleum, Buzzys Slick Honey, ParkerOlube. You never know when o-rings will degrade or swell using other lubricants.


White Lightning Crystal grease is said to be safe on deals and stuff. Plus I like it. Anyone have input on the stuff?


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

You mean about how it has nothing to do with charger dampers or pikes?


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

eicca said:


> Is it possible the bladder is somehow overfull and grabbing the stanchion wall when compressed?


That's what I am thinking.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

There is air bubbles in, I had exactly same feeling that damper was feeling like spring inside before bleeding. Still don't fully understand why it behaves like that but bleeding removed that


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

bing! said:


> Its rated for grease. I have used Fox Float fluid for those who need to have it oooh sooo supple  I wouldn't exptect it to last as long as grease, but enough to last through a service cycle.


Hey Bing, Im close to do another service on my pike, & I like "oooh sooo supple" how much fox fluid should i use in a clean air spring side?


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

I wouldn't use more than a couple cc of oil. It will quickly migrate into the neg chamber and you don't want to reduce that volume anymore than necessary.

Slick honey works just as well though.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

kneecap said:


> Hey Bing, Im close to do another service on my pike, & I like "oooh sooo supple" how much fox fluid should i use in a clean air spring side?


Make sure u grease the air spring assembly well, and drop a Fox Fluid pillow pack on top. About 5ml. Air spring rate will change a little.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Possible that it's suck in air and pumped itself up?


Just an update. The bladder was over filled due to air making its way into the system. I replaced the lower sealhead sealing ring and I'll do a bleed tomorrow.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Well it looks like the official updated seal head comes with the full service kit:
Bikeman RockShox Pike Solo Air Upgraded Full Service Kit with Upgraded Sealhead, Solo Air and Damper Seals a

Cheaper than the NSD option and you get all the other seals for $43. I'll give it a go.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

half_man_half_scab said:


> Well it looks like the official updated seal head comes with the full service kit:
> Bikeman RockShox Pike Solo Air Upgraded Full Service Kit with Upgraded Sealhead, Solo Air and Damper Seals a
> 
> Cheaper than the NSD option and you get all the other seals for $43. I'll give it a go.


Do you mind taking a pic of the kit? I'd be very interested to see what's included in the kit as it comes. I saw a couple of stock pics online but they didn't reflect the description.

This is great news for Pike owners. Our solution was a limited run of what could be considered hand made units by the guys down under. A mass produced solution will make it cheaper to get the Pikes working as designed.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I've been running Pikes since release, and it blows my mind that it took them this long, knock on wood.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

bing! said:


> Do you mind taking a pic of the kit? I'd be very interested to see what's included in the kit as it comes. I saw a couple of stock pics online but they didn't reflect the description.
> 
> This is great news for Pike owners. Our solution was a limited run of what could be considered hand made units by the guys down under. A mass produced solution will make it cheaper to get the Pikes working as designed.


Gabelprofi.de - by anbipa.de | Service Kit Full - PIKE Solo Air in Spare Parts | SRAM Service Point, Ihr Ansprechpartner im Garantie und Gewährleistungsfall rundum SRAM Produkte


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

The NSD seal head looks like a really well made piece. It will be interesting to compare the new rockshox one available in the rebuilt kit with the NSD unit.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

This is a pic of the upgraded seal kit lifted from BTI. It has the same part # as the kit listed by Bikeman that includes the upgraded sealhead.









This is a pic of the upgraded sealhead.









You can buy the sealhead from Amazon for $16. Amazon.com : RockShox Pike A1 Seal Head Assembly (Rebound Damper Charger) 35mm : Bike Suspension And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors

Personally, I would rather support the little guy and buy the NSD version but it's not clear that it's any better. I think it goes without saying, however, that it's awesome a small company took the initiative to improve our forks. The feedback bing has been providing in this thread has been stellar without pimping the product. Kudos.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

rockman said:


> This is a pic of the upgraded seal kit lifted from BTI. It has the same part # as the kit listed by Bikeman that includes the upgraded sealhead.
> 
> View attachment 1025576
> 
> ...


BTI kit and picture is the old "full service" kit that doesn't have the updated sealhead.

And the sealhead you posted (for $16) is the old sealhead.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

tacubaya said:


> BTI kit and picture is the old "full service" kit that doesn't have the updated sealhead.
> 
> And the sealhead you posted (for $16) is the old sealhead.


Well, that's what your LBS would order from BTI so that's what's available. At least from them. Perhaps the updated sealhead is not yet available from SRAM?


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

http://www.bikeman.com/FK4462.html

Posted earlier in this thread...updated seal head


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

The damper sealhead that BTI lists is 11.4015.353.030. The pic I posted above. It would be nice to know if it's the updated one or what it looks like before ordering one.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

NS Dynamic seal heads are out of stock in North America. The Amazon listing is temporarily down. I expect to receive some in about a week. We didnt expect to sell out after the new seals were released. Back in stock very soon.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

i too am waiting on the updated seal head. I was told it will be available again on the 6th.
I'm currently running a RS Sektor and I sure do miss my Pike!


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Can the ChArge damper be bled without removing it from the fork?


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

*bikeman.com updated sealhead (part# 11.4018.027.003)*


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Miker J said:


> Can the ChArge damper be bled without removing it from the fork?


Can be done, though I'm sure the official service guide frowns upon it. Let all the air out of the fork, squish it down, unscrew the top of the damper unit from the crown and extend the damper, then open up the port and bleed it. After bleeding is complete, reverse the above to get it all back together. I did it on my fork once, I'd completed a full service and put everything back together when I discovered that the bleed wasn't quite right. I didn't feel like disassembling the whole fork again so I did it the cheater way.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Nice shots HMHS! That low friction spring loaded SKF seal would definitely do the trick so if anyone had any reservations... you would be foolish to doubt the new seals. Much lower cost and should be lower friction than the NS version too (should have waited). The new seal kit supposedly comes with SKF fork wipers and piston rings too which further reduces friction. Think I'll pick me up a set.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## allen mueller (Mar 23, 2010)

Does any one have experience with the new seal head that's mentioned in the updated service manual for the air spring side?


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## project_d (Jun 1, 2007)

Miker J said:


> Can the ChArge damper be bled without removing it from the fork?


Yes if you let out the air and remove the cap from the left leg. However, I find it's best to do it when doing a lower leg service, since you need to cycle the rod up and down several times. I bleed my Charger Damper every 3rd or 4th lower leg service.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

project_d said:


> Yes if you let out the air and remove the cap from the left leg. However, I find it's best to do it when doing a lower leg service, since you need to cycle the rod up and down several times. I bleed my Charger Damper every 3rd or 4th lower leg service.


Just to add, by unscrewing the top cap of the damper, and unbolting it from the lower leg, you can pull the damper off quite easily for maintenance.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Interesting that the solo air seal head also got replaced. I didn't notice that in the kit I got, but I'll take a look at home tonight. I hope they ditch the previous iteration internal snap rings, I'd match rather have the Fox style that don't require snap ring pliers.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

allen mueller said:


> Does any one have experience with the new seal head that's mentioned in the updated service manual for the air spring side?
> 
> View attachment 1026452


Interesting. Wonder what's different other than the look.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Just swapped in both new seal heads. I couldn't really see any substantial differences on the air side. It feels like it always does with a fresh bleed, we'll see how it goes in the long term.


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## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

rockman said:


> Well, that's what your LBS would order from BTI so that's what's available. At least from them. Perhaps the updated sealhead is not yet available from SRAM?


I have been getting the new seal head for over three months now in the SRAM complete O/H Kit part number 11.4018.027.003 Solo air and they have been working great, I order it right from BikeMan $42.99 and it comes with a few more pieces than the BTI kit including the new seal head.


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## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

rockman said:


> The damper sealhead that BTI lists is 11.4015.353.030. The pic I posted above. It would be nice to know if it's the updated one or what it looks like before ordering one.


That picture is of the old seal head, however that part number is the original seal head and the new seal head number, SRAM is not going to superseed with a new number. ( so said SRAM at this time )
So you need to call any supplier and have them check the head and make sure its got the new Green SKF seal in the head and it will be the new head assembly.

If it has the old black seal in it than its the old head and seal, it will take awhile to rid the old head assemblies off the shelves of suppliers that really don't know whats going on.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

NSD seal heads back up on Amazon. Available direct as well. 

Happy trails!


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## kelstr (Jan 17, 2008)

allen mueller said:


> Does any one have experience with the new seal head that's mentioned in the updated service manual for the air spring side?
> View attachment 1026452


I have one 16 Pike that has the new air side seal head in it and the old 14 Pike thats on my bike now has the old air side seal head in it and I can't tell any difference either way, they both work fine and have not had any problems with either one !



half_man_half_scab said:


> Just swapped in both new seal heads. I couldn't really see any substantial differences on the air side. It feels like it always does with a fresh bleed, we'll see how it goes in the long term.


I just love the new updated seal head with the green skf seal in the thing, the way they relocated the bushing out further for more support when running 160mm travel and made the body larger for the new sf seal and the way it fits so nice and free floating with no stiction on the shaft is nice.

Nice photo you shot of the new head !


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## EgonNO (Nov 10, 2015)

Does anybody know if the new complete service kit (11.4018.027.003) includes the new black skf dust seals? (Old ones)








Left, the new 35 mm black skf dust seal made for the Lyrik. Right, the new skf seal for the charger camper.

If not, I'm wondering if I should order the green aftermarket dust seals from skf as well as the service kit. Second pic.


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

EgonNO said:


> Does anybody know if the new complete service kit (11.4018.027.003) includes the new black skf dust seals? (Old ones)
> 
> View attachment 1027799
> 
> ...


Pretty sure dust wiper seals aren't included.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

jimarin said:


> Pretty sure dust wiper seals aren't included.


Why do you say that? It is my understanding that RS went with SKF seals for dust seals as well as piston head seals along with the charger damper seal for 2016 so I sure as hell hope they would be included in the new seal kits!

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

EgonNO said:


> Does anybody know if the new complete service kit (11.4018.027.003) includes the new black skf dust seals? Left, the new 35 mm black skf dust seal made for the Lyrik. Right, the new skf seal for the charger camper.
> 
> If not, I'm wondering if I should order the green aftermarket dust seals from skf as well as the service kit.


Staring at the kit. It's complete, but the wiper seals are marked "Rockshox" - no SKF on it. The lower damper seal head is the updated one, green sprung seal. I've got the green SKF aftermarket seals (purchased a few months prior) and they certainly work well - smooth travel, but no idea if they're better than the RS ones. If I had either but not both, I'd just use what I had.


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## gasmanxj (Sep 29, 2014)

Entrenador said:


> Staring at the kit. It's complete, but the wiper seals are marked "Rockshox" - no SKF on it. The lower damper seal head is the updated one, green sprung seal.


Same thing here. Just got the Bikeman kit and the wipers are not marked SKF so not sure if they are or not. Compared to an older set of RS ones and they appear identical. Does for sure come with the SKF damper seal and updated air side seal head as mentioned. I tried the Push wipers and there's definitely less stiction but they both have started to leak at around 500 miles. Time for a full service anyway and I do ride in a dusty environment, but wipe down the stanchions after every ride.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Entrenador said:


> Staring at the kit. It's complete, but the wiper seals are marked "Rockshox" - no SKF on it. The lower damper seal head is the updated one, green sprung seal. I've got the green SKF aftermarket seals (purchased a few months prior) and they certainly work well - smooth travel, but no idea if they're better than the RS ones. If I had either but not both, I'd just use what I had.


I have a new Lyric and the wiper seals in that are black SKF branded ones. I assume you have a older set of wiper seals in your kit.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

No experience with them but these low-friction seals from PUSH are also an option for the Pike. PUSH Ultra Low Friction Fork Seal Kit ? PUSH Industries


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## jimarin (Mar 19, 2005)

Gman086 said:


> Why do you say that? It is my understanding that RS went with SKF seals for dust seals as well as piston head seals along with the charger damper seal for 2016 so I sure as hell hope they would be included in the new seal kits!
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


I stand corrected. A picture I saw of the kit didn't have them. Shame they aren't the skf version (or at least don't appear to be).


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## gasmanxj (Sep 29, 2014)

Based on the pic from Rick Draper, the wiper seals shipping in the upgrade kit (at least for now) are not the new SKF ones. Maybe they needed to get rid of the old stock....


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## EgonNO (Nov 10, 2015)

My thoughts as well, maybe one day the upgraded full service kit will suddenly include the new skf dust wipers. In the mean time if you want them, the part number is 11.4018.028.013 (not in stock atm).

Anyway, my research is done, I'm sending an order for 11.4018.028.013 (SKF dust seals) and 11.4018.027.003 (SA full service kit) to my lbs. 

(For those with an DPA, 11.4018.027.004 is the correct part number for the full service kit).


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

If I remember right SKF is manufacturing seals for RockShox starting for the 2016 models. I wonder if the ones in the kit are SKF but with the Rockshox name on them since they will technically be OEM


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

eicca said:


> If I remember right SKF is manufacturing seals for RockShox starting for the 2016 models. I wonder if the ones in the kit are SKF but with the Rockshox name on them since they will technically be OEM


My ones in the Lyrik kit are branded SKF no rockshox on them. You are over thinking this. RS have merely replaced the seal head in kits but are waiting to exhaust all the old wipeqr seals.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Can confirm that the most updated service kit includes new SKF seal heads and old RS dust wipers.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I am sure it has been covered before, but I am wondering if improvements can be made on the performance of the Pike when "locked-out"? I am spoiled from my rigid bikes when out of the saddle climbing, but the Pike bobs sooo freaking bad.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> I am sure it has been covered before, but I am wondering if improvements can be made on the performance of the Pike when "locked-out"? I am spoiled from my rigid bikes when out of the saddle climbing, but the Pike bobs sooo freaking bad.


It shouldnt bob. My lockout is rock solid. Youre damper may have leaked oil.

You can test for this by taking the lower legs off, locking out the fork and cycling the damper shaft by hand. If it goes up and down, you have an air gap in there.

Try bleeding it. If it has leaked, change out the seal head.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bing! said:


> It shouldnt bob. My lockout is rock solid. Youre damper may have leaked oil.
> 
> You can test for this by taking the lower legs off, locking out the fork and cycling the damper shaft by hand. If it goes up and down, you have an air gap in there.
> 
> Try bleeding it. If it has leaked, change out the seal head.


Thanks for the tip. But how is cycling it by hand w/ the lowers off any different than cycling it with the lowers on. Either way, the fork should not bob down?!

I am kinda sick of the lack-luster performance of the charger damper...I small a Any cart in my future.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> Thanks for the tip. But how is cycling it by hand w/ the lowers off any different than cycling it with the lowers on. Either way, the fork should not bob down?!
> 
> I am kinda sick of the lack-luster performance of the charger damper...I small a Any cart in my future.


You'll feel the air gap better independent of the air spring. Even with a decompressed air spring, it's just easier for me, specially when the air pocket is small.

I sell a seal head just for this issue, and there is a new Rockshox fix as well.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

bing! said:


> You'll feel the air gap better independent of the air spring. Even with a decompressed air spring, it's just easier for me, specially when the air pocket is small.
> 
> I sell a seal head just for this issue, and there is a new Rockshox fix as well.


I backup what you saying bing! But some heaver people like myself 105kg struggle to get any fork to lockout fully. Most are designed to blow off with certain amount of force which i assume is to protect components from excessive force. The pike does bypass the lock out pretty easy compared to other forks. I dont mind as it is an enduro fork not an xc fork. It stiffens up enough for me to get oit of the seat and I accept the small amount of bob as a compromise for the great downhill performance this fork gives. I have NSD seal heads on both my pikes and have rebuilt many of my mates pikes. It locks out perfectly for the lighter guys but does give for the heavier ones. I am pretty familiar with the leaking sealhead issue too and understand the difference. Lets wait and see if this one turns out to be the seal head. It most likely will be but thought I might throw another perspective in


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^Thanks for the heads up!

Maybe bing! will send me a seal head, and if it works I pay. If not...its free!!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

niva1989 said:


> I backup what you saying bing! But some heaver people like myself 105kg struggle to get any fork to lockout fully. Most are designed to blow off with certain amount of force which i assume is to protect components from excessive force. The pike does bypass the lock out pretty easy compared to other forks. I dont mind as it is an enduro fork not an xc fork. It stiffens up enough for me to get oit of the seat and I accept the small amount of bob as a compromise for the great downhill performance this fork gives. I have NSD seal heads on both my pikes and have rebuilt many of my mates pikes. It locks out perfectly for the lighter guys but does give for the heavier ones. I am pretty familiar with the leaking sealhead issue too and understand the difference. Lets wait and see if this one turns out to be the seal head. It most likely will be but thought I might throw another perspective in


Another aspect to focus on is when the knob is not installed correctly, the fork won't lock out. IMHO, Rockshox did not do a good job designing that knob well. It's a bear to install.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

bing! said:


> Another aspect to focus on is when the knob is not installed correctly, the fork won't lock out. IMHO, Rockshox did not do a good job designing that knob well. It's a bear to install.


How do you know when it is installed incorrectly?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> How do you know when it is installed incorrectly?


You need to make sure that you cant turn the knob further than the lockout detent point. It always takes me a couple of goes to get it perfect.


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

Boo hoo - time for my first full rebuild of my SA RCT3 after about 6 months from new. I have some question that might be helpful for all users. I just picked up the Bikeman full kit (w/o dust seals) and am now planning for the tear down next week.
- Does the oil type in the lowers matter if it is just a lube, i.e., is 3W fork oil really not able to lubricate like 0W motor oil? It would seem like even 50W oil would do the job as long as the foam were fully saturated.
- I weigh 205# without gear and ran almost no rebound dampening @ full rabbit; 1 click from full open. Anybody have any success with changing factory damping tune (to soft tune) as described in the manual? Several people have asked, but no answers yet. 
- Is it possible that something was not right from the beginning with rebound damper circuit that made me push it to full open? I ran 18% sag and felt like I could not get any pop. It really felt like quicksand.
- I assume that dust seal failures show up as loss of air spring pressure over time. If I never lost air pressure, do I need to change the dust seals out?
- Is there a best way to fill the air spring pressure so that there is no negative pressure created? For example should the fork be cycled while filling etc?

Thanks all and Happy Holidays.
Thanks


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## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

Just to let everyone know that artscyclery.com has the updated Pike rebuild kit on sale for $27. I just picked up a kit and a bleed fitting tool also on sale $15!


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## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

Tommybees said:


> I just picked up the Bikeman full kit (w/o dust seals) and am now planning for the tear down next week.
> - Does the oil type in the lowers matter if it is just a lube, i.e., is 3W fork oil really not able to lubricate like 0W motor oil? It would seem like even 50W oil would do the job as long as the foam were fully saturated.
> - I weigh 205# without gear and ran almost no rebound dampening @ full rabbit; 1 click from full open. Anybody have any success with changing factory damping tune (to soft tune) as described in the manual? Several people have asked, but no answers yet.
> - Is it possible that something was not right from the beginning with rebound damper circuit that made me push it to full open? I ran 18% sag and felt like I could not get any pop. It really felt like quicksand.
> ...


With 6 months use, probably best to change the wipers too while you have it apart. I just installed some of the wiper seals that came in the RS kit. If I needed to get wipers separate from the kit, I'd buy the SKF greens again. They went in really easily and the fork stroke was super smooth immediately.

18% of sag sounds low on any Pike. How many bottomless tokens are in it, and how long is your travel? More tokens will make it more progressive; If you had to run 18% sag to get it to ride at the right height, then maybe you don't have enough tokens in. I'd look into this before considering playing with the oil weights.

As for negative air spring: My sense is that if you rebuilt it as directed by RS, any resulting negative air spring should be as intended. Again, bottomless tokens will probably resolve any tuning issues you're having if you rebuild it properly.

Good luck.


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

ScottieM8 said:


> Just to let everyone know that artscyclery.com has the updated Pike rebuild kit on sale for $27. I just picked up a kit and a bleed fitting tool also on sale $15!


Thanks! Just to confirm, does the artscyclery kit have the updated seal head (i.e. its got the new Green SKF seal in the head). If so, that is significantly cheaper than bikeman.


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## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

~Ish said:


> Thanks! Just to confirm, does the artscyclery kit have the updated seal head (i.e. its got the new Green SKF seal in the head). If so, that is significantly cheaper than bikeman.


The kit should arrive today so I'll confirm when I open the box.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

ScottieM8 said:


> The kit should arrive today so I'll confirm when I open the box.


Please do. I have the suspicion my damper needs it and teardown time is fast approaching.


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## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

OK, I got the upgraded kit in today through Art's and it does have the updated SKF green seal head! Everything is in the kit, O-rings, Charger bladder, etc. The only thing that's worth mentioning is the lower leg wipers are the black Rock Shox ones. Don't know if they are made by SKF and relabeled? I believe someone mentioned that in their kit through bikeman. Very happy with my purchase. Also got a quart of Maxima 3wt shock oil at Amazon for $16.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

I recommend buying Torco is you want the exact weights.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Hi Guys!

So I bled my charger damper last night. Didn't do a sealhead change at this time, though I don't have any leaks yet. Anyway, dumped the oil, added new oil, bled it till no bubbles. When I closed it up and tried cycling the damper, there was a slight swishy sound. Opened it up again, re-bled, no air except for the initial bit (from the attachment of the bleed kit). Bled it for a while (cycled vacuum/pressure like 20 times to be sure). No air bubbles. Closed it up, swishy sound still there.

Is it normal? Are your chargers swishy too?

Tested it off and on the bike and there's no resistance to bottoming the damper so I am thinking it should be all good.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

aerius said:


> Can be done, though I'm sure the official service guide frowns upon it. Let all the air out of the fork, squish it down, unscrew the top of the damper unit from the crown and extend the damper, then open up the port and bleed it. After bleeding is complete, reverse the above to get it all back together. I did it on my fork once, I'd completed a full service and put everything back together when I discovered that the bleed wasn't quite right. I didn't feel like disassembling the whole fork again so I did it the cheater way.


Just did this too. Wasn't happy with my bleed and I was lazy to take everything back apart. All good now!


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

alecd said:


> Hi Guys!
> 
> So I bled my charger damper last night. Didn't do a sealhead change at this time, though I don't have any leaks yet. Anyway, dumped the oil, added new oil, bled it till no bubbles. When I closed it up and tried cycling the damper, there was a slight swishy sound. Opened it up again, re-bled, no air except for the initial bit (from the attachment of the bleed kit). Bled it for a while (cycled vacuum/pressure like 20 times to be sure). No air bubbles. Closed it up, swishy sound still there.
> 
> ...


I'd rely more on feel that sound. After to you let it sit a while, is there a noticeable gap in the damper? I work on a lot of different suspension, and some are naturally squishy sounding.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Oil rushing through a bunch of tiny ports will definitely make a swishy sound. Totally normal.


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## alecd (Apr 27, 2015)

Cool thanks guys! Took my newly rebuilt pike out riding for the past two days and it feels brand new again. I am definitely not waiting another 9 months before my next service. 

Sent from my SM-N920C using Tapatalk


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

NS Dynamics seal heads are on sale via PB and Amazon for the month of December.


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## pdqmach26 (Jul 24, 2011)

ScottieM8 said:


> OK, I got the upgraded kit in today through Art's and it does have the updated SKF green seal head! Everything is in the kit, O-rings, Charger bladder, etc. The only thing that's worth mentioning is the lower leg wipers are the black Rock Shox ones. Don't know if they are made by SKF and relabeled? I believe someone mentioned that in their kit through bikeman. Very happy with my purchase. Also got a quart of Maxima 3wt shock oil at Amazon for $16.


Is this the kit you purchased from Arts?

Rock Shox Pike Upgraded Full Service Kit Solo Air


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## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

pdqmach26 said:


> Is this the kit you purchased from Arts?
> 
> Rock Shox Pike Upgraded Full Service Kit Solo Air


Yep, that's the kit. Art's is having a sale right now too! 20% off sitewide, damnit, need to resist...


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Is the NS Dynamics seal head an upgrade or a solution that an innovative outfit came out with to cure the leakage that SRAM has now remedied with an equivalent sealhead? 

I want to support the innovators that helped with a solution but dang even with the sale the sealhead is twice the cost of two overhaul kits.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Y


rockman said:


> Is the NS Dynamics seal head an upgrade or a solution that an innovative outfit came out with to cure the leakage that SRAM has now remedied with an equivalent sealhead?
> 
> I want to support the innovators that helped with a solution but dang even with the sale the sealhead is twice the cost of two overhaul kits.


You also get the updated sealhead for the air side as well with the SRAM kits.


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## xhailofgunfirex (Jun 25, 2008)

Edit, redbled it and everything is nice now. Just a quick note for people who haven't serviced their charger damper yet. Recommend getting a nice pair of snap ring pliers, cheap ones are to flimsy for the small charger damper ones and I spent way to much time trying to fiddle with junk ones.


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## Tree (Jan 27, 2004)

*My Pike needs service but not comfortable doing it myself......*

where is the best place to send it to get a full service done?

Thanks


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## davidsthubbins (Dec 14, 2009)

xhailofgunfirex said:


> Edit, redbled it and everything is nice now. Just a quick note for people who haven't serviced their charger damper yet. Recommend getting a nice pair of snap ring pliers, cheap ones are to flimsy for the small charger damper ones and I spent way to much time trying to fiddle with junk ones.


Couldn't agree more. Had Harbor Freight cheapies and it was by far my biggest headache. Finally gave up and got some nice pliers ($23 from Home Depot)...amazing how much easier.


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## Joss002 (Sep 22, 2014)

xhailofgunfirex said:


> Edit, redbled it and everything is nice now. Just a quick note for people who haven't serviced their charger damper yet. Recommend getting a nice pair of snap ring pliers, cheap ones are to flimsy for the small charger damper ones and I spent way to much time trying to fiddle with junk ones.


+2 On this...
I got a cheap set with different tips and Id have been better off using chopsticks :madman: they were twisting and making it near impossible to remove the clip,so binned them and got a decent pair,much easier and less chance of damaging anything.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Tree said:


> where is the best place to send it to get a full service done?
> 
> Thanks


I do service. I'm in Los Angeles. PM me.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

Apologies if this has already been covered but I see the latest Pike service manual states to add 10ml of oil to BOTH the air side and damper side during a lower leg service. 
Anyone else notice that?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

jon123 said:


> Apologies if this has already been covered but I see the latest Pike service manual states to add 10ml of oil to BOTH the air side and damper side during a lower leg service.
> Anyone else notice that?


pretty sure that is just for the latest 2016 model. It should be etched on the rebound shaft bolt which is what I go by.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

niva1989 said:


> pretty sure that is just for the latest 2016 model. It should be etched on the rebound shaft bolt which is what I go by.


I'm not so sure you're correct. Manual says all Pikes from 2014-Present. See page 46

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...n_0000000004461_rev_d_2014_-_present_pike.pdf


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

jon123 said:


> I'm not so sure you're correct. Manual says all Pikes from 2014-Present. See page 46
> 
> https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...n_0000000004461_rev_d_2014_-_present_pike.pdf


sounds like they changed it. I'll follow that now. 5 ml is too little.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

bing! said:


> sounds like they changed it. I'll follow that now. 5 ml is too little.


Good enough for you, Bing, then it's good enough for me.


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## gasmanxj (Sep 29, 2014)

There's another thread about this recently and someone called SRAM. They confirmed the 10/10 spec is applicable to 14' and up Pikes. I did a full service a while back with the upgraded seals and have been running 10 in both sides with no problems. When I did the first lower service not much oil came out of the drive side, think most of the 5ml got soaked up in the foam ring, stuck to the walls of the lowers, etc., so 10ml makes more sense to me.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

I use Fox Gold 20wt. in my '14 Pike. I swear it is more slippery than the Rock Shox spec oil.


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## ScottieM8 (Apr 3, 2015)

Just bought some Fox Gold 20wt. Going to try it on my next maintenance interval. Has anyone tried something else for the splash oil in the lowers?


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

ScottieM8 said:


> Just bought some Fox Gold 20wt. Going to try it on my next maintenance interval. Has anyone tried something else for the splash oil in the lowers?


The 30 wt RS seems to work fine for both the bath and the foam rings, but I also slather Slick Honey around the bushing and from rings as well. That stuff is great.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

jon123 said:


> I'm not so sure you're correct. Manual says all Pikes from 2014-Present. See page 46
> 
> https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...n_0000000004461_rev_d_2014_-_present_pike.pdf


Sorry. Didnt double check the manual before I posted. I havent seen any bushing wear issues on the forks I have rebuilt but 10mls does make more sense. I remember a heated discussion on here recently about this topic and someone mentioned 10mls might be a problem creating a negative spring effect on the drive side by reducing the air volume in lowers. Will give 10mls a try next service and see if it is noticeable. Just serviced my lowers a couple of weeks ago and fitted the new low friction green skf seals. They feel nice and slippery at this stage.


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## jon123 (Oct 11, 2009)

niva1989 said:


> Sorry. Didnt double check the manual before I posted. I havent seen any bushing wear issues on the forks I have rebuilt but 10mls does make more sense. I remember a heated discussion on here recently about this topic and someone mentioned 10mls might be a problem creating a negative spring effect on the drive side by reducing the air volume in lowers. Will give 10mls a try next service and see if it is noticeable. Just serviced my lowers a couple of weeks ago and fitted the new low friction green skf seals. They feel nice and slippery at this stage.


I just did it (had to lower my fork to 140) and used 10ml both sides. Feels great. Also installed the skf seals so I'm sure that's part of it. But 10ml each side seems to do the trick.


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## Punto Pete (Mar 20, 2010)

ScottieM8 said:


> Just bought some Fox Gold 20wt. Going to try it on my next maintenance interval. Has anyone tried something else for the splash oil in the lowers?





cycloxer13 said:


> I use Fox Gold 20wt. in my '14 Pike. I swear it is more slippery than the Rock Shox spec oil.


I'm interested to hear more views on the Fox Gold 20wt vs RS 0w30 and other suspension fluids for the Pike's lowers. I think I've got 5wt and 15wt SVI in the garage. I've just bought a new 2015 fork (manufacture date 19t5) and want to lower them to 140mm along with making sure the lowers are correctly lubed.


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## cycloxer13 (Oct 27, 2014)

I'll be tearing apart my fork this winter for an overhaul. I'll let you know what I find and post any pictures. The Gold is simply awesome imho. It seems to work well with the standard Pike seals. I am pretty sure I'm running 10ml in each leg. It's been awhile since I did this.


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## Punto Pete (Mar 20, 2010)

Sounds good, might have to give the gold a try. Just hope the lbs has some in stock tomorrow


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Looks like all Pikes are serviced 
Anyway, a few questions:
1. how do I know there is a problem w. sealhead? what are the symptoms ?
2. is there a conclusion whether NSD or new RS sealhead are solving the problem, and if one is better than the other?
3. I have Pike Solo RCT3 2014 26" . I remember there was written somewhere that the new RS sealhead cannot be fitted - anyone tried to replace the old one on this specific fork?

Thanks in advance
Paul


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

paulki said:


> Looks like all Pikes are serviced
> Anyway, a few questions:
> 1. how do I know there is a problem w. sealhead? what are the symptoms ?
> 2. is there a conclusion whether NSD or new RS sealhead are solving the problem, and if one is better than the other?
> ...


NSD seal head will be best for you. I have installed them on a few forks now and all have plenty of km on them without issue. When they have issue you will notice the dampening is quite stiff as the lower leg fills up with oil leaking out of the damper. Air is also drawn i to the damper and gives excess free play at end of stroke. Can't comment on the new RS sealhead though as I havent come across any. Id say they will do the trick but just not 100% on backwards compatability. 
I just upgraded to a Lyrik fork and keeping my Pike as a spare. Lyrik is awesome!!!!


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

Go with the RS. You can buy an entire rebuild kit, including the new seal head for 1/2 the price of the NSD seal head alone.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

~Ish said:


> Go with the RS. You can buy an entire rebuild kit, including the new seal head for 1/2 the price of the NSD seal head alone.


Sorry. here in Australia it is the reverse. The NSD seal head is much cheaper than a full rebuild kit here. Sounds like the better option for you over there.


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## allen mueller (Mar 23, 2010)

paulki said:


> Looks like all Pikes are serviced
> Anyway, a few questions:
> 1. how do I know there is a problem w. sealhead? what are the symptoms ?
> 2. is there a conclusion whether NSD or new RS sealhead are solving the problem, and if one is better than the other?
> ...


On the air side if you're starting to notice air pressure build up in the lowers its time to rebuild the air spring side and make sure you get the updated seal head for that as well. After I did mine I had no more issues with air in the lowers.

Al


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

did not get someth.: are there 2 seal heads - for charger and for the air side?
are they both included in the "upgraded kit"?
TX!


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## stokerslo (Sep 9, 2004)

paulki said:


> did not get someth.: are there 2 seal heads - for charger and for the air side?
> are they both included in the "upgraded kit"?
> TX!


Just did a rebuild on one of the first Pikes. The upgraded kit comes with seals etc. for the air side and most importantly an (1)SKF seal head that goes in the charger damper that replaces the old leaky one. The air side, Im not sure if something was upgraded, I just replaced one for one as I went along. Also as a note The seals for the lowers in the kit were not SKF and were purchased separately.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

1) was it 26"/160 or some other?
2) reg lower SKF seals - are these that different from the ones in the set that they worth to buy separately?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

The 26" pike needs either machining on the original damper tube to accommodate the new Rock Shox seal head or you need to buy the official modified damper tube from Rock Shox.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Ah, I see, so no backward compatibility... nice...
Do you by any chance have the tube RS part #, and any recommendations where to buy from - I cannot find much info.
Also, how much and what type of "machining" required?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

paulki said:


> Ah, I see, so no backward compatibility... nice...
> Do you by any chance have the tube RS part #, and any recommendations where to buy from - I cannot find much info.
> Also, how much and what type of "machining" required?


11.4018.063.000.

The older one needs some machining off the end of it. Keistr on here says its approximately .200 thou needs removing.


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## stokerslo (Sep 9, 2004)

paulki said:


> 1) was it 26"/160 or some other?
> 2) reg lower SKF seals - are these that different from the ones in the set that they worth to buy separately?


This was a 27.5 160mm fork one of the first few batches in 2014.

RE: lower seals, yes it seemed to make a noticeable diff. from the original RS ones, Granted I had 2 yrs on this fork and maybe I may not remember exactly how it felt after the 1st ride. Either way small bump seems slightly better


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

paulki said:


> Ah, I see, so no backward compatibility... nice...
> Do you by any chance have the tube RS part #, and any recommendations where to buy from - I cannot find much info.
> Also, how much and what type of "machining" required?


I remember seeing the upgraded damper at bikeman.com a while ago.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

paulki said:


> Looks like all Pikes are serviced
> Anyway, a few questions:
> 1. how do I know there is a problem w. sealhead? what are the symptoms ?
> 2. is there a conclusion whether NSD or new RS sealhead are solving the problem, and if one is better than the other?
> ...


Definitely go with the RS kit not NSD. The kit includes way more for a fraction of the cost. I've done both and honestly the only one that lasted was the RS kit but granted I rebuilt the entire damper at that time. The new SKS seal head fits way better than versio 1 and the NSD..


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## MeridaManiac (Apr 19, 2015)

I've had the NSD seal head on an early model pike. It has been great no problems after about 6 months of solid riding. It did feel as though it had a firm spot in its travel but i didn't notice it while riding.


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## tratch (Jul 14, 2010)

Just discovered a defective seal on my '14 affecting my damping. I would love to go with the NSD, but it is just too expensive. Went with a RS kit and bleed kit for $45 total, waiting on the order.

Related: Found the air chamber full of Sram Butter causing the excess travel feeling. Check your selves if you haven't yet done a service.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Finally got around to pulling apart my Pike last night.
I swapped out the original seal head on the Charger damper with a new NSD unit, and did a full bleed on the system after. The bleed procedure was simple, and only took me about 10 minutes to complete. Pulling the initial vacuum on the syringe removed a ton of air.
I also noticed that after replacing the seal head and doing a bleed, the damper felt much firmer during its travel. Before the seal head swap and bleed it would move through it's travel without much resistance.
I pulled a vacuum and did several shaft cycles, and also pressurized the syringe and did the same thing. Basically continued until no more bubbles were present at all. How do you tell if your bleed is ok or not? Is your lockout circuit the best indicator?
With the damper removed and locked out I cannot compress the rebound shaft by hand. When I reassembled the fork I am still able to compress the fork when locked out, but it takes quite a bit of force. Any insights?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

with the damper off, put in half LSC and fully lock out the damper by rotating the proper adjustment counter clockwise. You should get full lock. 

trying to compress a damper with a full open LSC will allow it to compress.

to do a successfull bleed check, open the lock out and cycle the damper shaft. You will feel an air pocket if there is one. if it feels consistently damped through the entire stroke, you are golden!

Howse that for customer support


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

bing! said:


> with the damper off, put in half LSC and fully lock out the damper by rotating the proper adjustment counter clockwise. You should get full lock.
> 
> trying to compress a damper with a full open LSC will allow it to compress.
> 
> ...


Thanks again Bing.
With the damper removed from the fork I cannot compress when locked out. (Using reasonable hand pressure. )
Doing the steps you described above, I can still compress the fork when locked out and fully assembled. (Damper in fork, 230lb rider, using body weight to compress fork while standing) It's about as locked out as any rockshox fork I've ever had. Reba, Revelation, etc. But it's by no means fully locked.

With damper removed and in fully open position. It feels smooth and controlled the whole damper shaft cycle. I cycled it a ton during bleeding and made sure to keep going until I didn't see any air at all.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

JoshM said:


> Thanks again Bing.
> With the damper removed from the fork I cannot compress when locked out. (Using reasonable hand pressure. )
> Doing the steps you described above, I can still compress the fork when locked out and fully assembled. (Damper in fork, 230lb rider, using body weight to compress fork while standing) It's about as locked out as any rockshox fork I've ever had. Reba, Revelation, etc. But it's by no means fully locked.
> 
> With damper removed and in fully open position. It feels smooth and controlled the whole damper shaft cycle. I cycled it a ton during bleeding and made sure to keep going until I didn't see any air at all.


Sounds about right to me. Your bleed is good. I weight the same and have rebuilt Pikes many times. Lockouts just arent for Clydes. You can ramp up your LSC and it should firm up a bit but wont lockout fully and this will also make it feel awful when fully open and riding over bumps. It is designed to blow off at a certain point and I think we are at the design limit for weight. Reducing your sag by increasing air pressure can assist but you will also affect performance over the rough stuff. I have some lighter mates that the lockout works for.

I just got a pair of Lyriks for my enduro bike and they are the same. No full lockout but firm enough to stop bob when out of the seat pedalling is required.

Remember Pikes are for the fun side of the mountain ?. The lockout makes it firm enough for the climbs to be bearable.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Remember, lock outs have a blow off. With standard hand pressure, it should be locked. If you jump on it, it will blow off.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Excellent. It's definitely firm enough to prevent pedal bob while climbing out of the saddle, or long fire roads.

Thanks a lot guys. 
If anyone is thinking of doing this DIY style, it's really not that hard. Took me about an hour to pull the damper, swap the seal head, bleed and reassemble. No dropping of lowers needed. A good small pair of snap-ring pliers are critical, as is the bleed kit. Using a ground flat 30mm socket is probably a good idea too. There isn't much surface area for a normal socket to grab.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Hey guys, slightly off topic but how many clicks of rebound should I have? I could have sworn 20, but I'm only counting 15. Just dropped the legs and added some Fox 20wt oil and SKF dust seals. After bolting everything back up, the silver rebound bolt seems to be a hair askew (stripped maybe  ??) And I could have sworn I lost a few clicks of rebound. 2014 Pike RC 27.5/160


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

CarolinaPanthers said:


> Hey guys, slightly off topic but how many clicks of rebound should I have? I could have sworn 20, but I'm only counting 15. Just dropped the legs and added some Fox 20wt oil and SKF dust seals. After bolting everything back up, the silver rebound bolt seems to be a hair askew (stripped maybe  ??) And I could have sworn I lost a few clicks of rebound. 2014 Pike RC 27.5/160


I count 20 clicks on mine. Bolts on the bottom of the fork should be flush with the bottom as they also act as an oil seal with the crush washers.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Thanks Josh! I'll check to see that its sealing up


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## _rich_ (Jan 22, 2004)

I just received a complete brand new charger damper for my 2014 Pike(from Rockshox) ...
When cycling the damper, it had absolutely no resistance in the final 1/2" of the stroke(meaning the final 1/2" of stroke when fully extended)

so I did a bleed and A LOT of air came out and it feels right now....

even new you have be careful and check your bleed...

oh and for the record....Kyle @Rockshox customer service/tech support was AWESOME !!!!!!
I could never have asked for better service.
He went waaaaaaaay out of his way for me and I can't say thank you enough !!!!


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

I was surprised how many cycles of the rebound shaft it took until all the air stopped coming out. Lots of tiny spaces for bubbles to hide inside there.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Three to five cycles and I'm done. I do let it sit 10 minutes for all the air to get to the top before I finalize the bleed.


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

I got now the new model of full service kit, and there is marking:universal. Damper seal head is complete with aluminium part and new multiple lip seal inside. I guess it is ok to install to 2014 Pike? Did I read somewhere that the lenght of the new seal head is different or is it ok to install? I thought that I get only new model internal seal..


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

for a 26" 160 Pike you should buy/machine the shaft - see the discussion above


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

It is 140 mm and 27,5. Guess I have to measure the height difference compared to old, meaning the external part of the seal head


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Nordic09 said:


> It is 140 mm and 27,5. Guess I have to measure the height difference compared to old, meaning the external part of the seal head


As far as I know it should just be a screw in replacement. You will soon know if it isnt the right length when you screw it in. As long a it screws all the way in your good. I have only ever used the NSD seal heads.


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

Hopefully it fits. I have now well working aftermarket seal with double lip, but this new is labyrinth type with multiple lips and should be very good by the design.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

niva1989 said:


> As far as I know it should just be a screw in replacement. You will soon know if it isnt the right length when you screw it in. As long a it screws all the way in your good. I have only ever used the NSD seal heads.


It has nothing to do with it screwing all the way in or not. It's to do with the extra protrusion on the 26" fork.


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

If the head height is bigger, it causes overpressure to seals when compressing, similar way than excess oil in lowers. Wording "universal" and "2014-->" sounded good enough but I'll report back if there is difference. It is anyway the new up-graded service kit.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Nordic09 said:


> If the head height is bigger, it causes overpressure to seals when compressing, similar way than excess oil in lowers. Wording "universal" and "2014-->" sounded good enough but I'll report back if there is difference. It is anyway the new up-graded service kit.


You are overthinking it massively. The new seal is a direct fit on all pikes bar the 26" wheel version without the modified damper tube. The difference in the volume of the new seal head is so minor you will not notice.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Rick Draper said:


> It has nothing to do with it screwing all the way in or not. It's to do with the extra protrusion on the 26" fork.


Rick, Nordic09 has a 2014 140mm 27.5" so should be fine.


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

Massive overthinking? Rock shox dropped earlier damper side oil vol from 10 to 5 ml from this reason. It is not a big difference and same volume can be reached by small dimension changes. But it is good news that it fits to 27,5. And yes they are back in 10 ml oil vol again.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Nordic09 said:


> Massive overthinking? Rock shox dropped earlier damper side oil vol from 10 to 5 ml from this reason. It is not a big difference and same volume can be reached by small dimension changes. But it is good news that it fits to 27,5. And yes they are back in 10 ml oil vol again.


The first pikes (pre new seal head) were always 5cc and then with the new larger seal head it went up to 10cc so yes you are overthinking it.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Anybody know if you send a fork back to SRAM for service, or you have a local SRAM dealer rebuild/service your fork, will they replace or update defective seal heads during that service for free? Or will those be additional charges?


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## Nordic09 (Apr 11, 2009)

Probably there is a charge. I took last summer only the damper to lbs since there was air in and warranty was valid. After discussions with import company and lbs, they eventually changed the seal only by part price when I removed and installed the damper to fork myself. Ok the seal was their aftermarket seal.


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## Alex_Norco_NWalesUK (Feb 14, 2016)

Hey people, I've been reading through the post and there is some brillianti information. I have 2016 pikes on my giant reign which have been working flawlessly, I'm very happy!! However!! But i have a norco Aurum c 2016 with a pair of 2016 boxxer rc whichw worked brilliant untill I thought I would upgrade them to teams by adding a charger damper. Now after only two rides the charger is sucking in aira and loosing oil not happy, and on the same day my new vivid coil decided to let go!! Not happy. What's happened to rockshox!?!


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## Alex_Norco_NWalesUK (Feb 14, 2016)

So just been looking at my charger damper and the damper shaft seal head isg green and there is6 numbers on the shaft, I'm guessing it's the manufacturing date 16/10/15?? This should mean it's a revised charger damper??


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Alex_Norco_NWalesUK said:


> So just been looking at my charger damper and the damper shaft seal head isg green and there is6 numbers on the shaft, I'm guessing it's the manufacturing date 16/10/15?? This should mean it's a revised charger damper??


It has the latest damper updates if it has the green seal head.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

So color me confused on changing the head seal on my '14 27.5" Pike.

A couple of month ago I did the NS Dynamics head seal upgrade on my second bike (are NS not selling head seals anymore btw?) which has a 26" Pike. I've sold that bike and now i'm servicing my main bike with a '14 27.5 Pike and the head seal looks identical to the "bad" head seal that came on the 26" Pike. 

I thought Rockshox had updated the head seal assembly to something where the damper shaft wasn't so wobbly? The head seal on my 27.5 fork looks identical to the one i took off the 26" fork which in pictures looks identical to the replacement head seal i just ordered?


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

Need some advice here. Working with my 2014 pike RC3 on my 26" yeti SB66. Last year I installed a 160mm air shaft to get a little more bottom bracket height and things have been great. Rode the fork a lot for a good couple seasons. Went to Colorado for the tribe meet, did a lot of riding there hit a bike park, come back home do quite a bit of riding before winter and put the bike away once the trails tun to mud.

Well on the last couple rides the rebound an compression seemed to get lighter and lighter. Figured it needed a re-bleed and found this thread. (yeah 4 months later I get to the fork bleed)

Well after pulling the fork apart and having the cartridge in the stand I could see the seal head leaking so I tossed in the stock spare that RS sends with a new fork. Yes it was the old seal but it's "new" isn't it!

After two bleed attempts still no lock out and rebound that is way too fast. During the bleed it seems like the bubbles never stop coming. Even letting it sit for quite a while with the syringe held upward. 

I'm getting really frustrated and I'm ready to toss in the towel and just replace the whole thing. It's a great fork and I even bought a monarch+ to match last spring (love the shock too)


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Does anyone know if the damper issues will plague the Bluto or the Lyrik? 

15T51139727 Bluto 
42T53504395 Lyrik

I believe 26T5 is the v2 damper on the Pike. Is that the same for Bluto and Lyrik?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

Techspec360 said:


> Does anyone know if the damper issues will plague the Bluto or the Lyrik?
> 
> 15T51139727 Bluto
> 42T53504395 Lyrik
> ...


Lyrik will be fine, bluto won't have the latest sealhead.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

Rick Draper said:


> Lyrik will be fine, bluto won't have the latest sealhead.


Thanks for the info.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

These "upgrade kits" always piss me off to no end. Is my fork performing correctly...maybe? But there is always the what if, will the upgrade kit fix issues I might not know about.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

jonshonda said:


> These "upgrade kits" always piss me off to no end. Is my fork performing correctly...maybe? But there is always the what if, will the upgrade kit fix issues I might not know about.


You will feel it. It feels horrible in fast repeated hits, and tends to blow through travel at normal air pressures on spring side. Lockout seems to be a good indicator of the damper health too. If your fork is acting fine you shouldn't worry, it shows up pretty quick if you ride much at all. Took my fork about 2 months of 3-4 rides a week to start feeling like poo.
If I were tearing the fork down for routine maintenance, I would replace damper seal head, and air spring quad ring at the very least. Use slickoleum, sram butter or slick honey (all the same thing) liberally on the air spring, seal heads and inside the lower few inches of the upper tube on spring side. Bleed damper, and you are good to go.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

JoshM said:


> You will feel it. It feels horrible in fast repeated hits, and tends to blow through travel at normal air pressures on spring side. Lockout seems to be a good indicator of the damper health too. If your fork is acting fine you shouldn't worry, it shows up pretty quick if you ride much at all. Took my fork about 2 months of 3-4 rides a week to start feeling like poo.
> If I were tearing the fork down for routine maintenance, I would replace damper seal head, and air spring quad ring at the very least. Use slickoleum, sram butter or slick honey (all the same thing) liberally on the air spring, seal heads and inside the lower few inches of the upper tube on spring side. Bleed damper, and you are good to go.


I just went through and replaced all the o-rings and wipers, but didn't touch the seal head. I will have to order the upgrade kit and go through the entire fork.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

bing! said:


> If the fork is fairly new and not in need of a complete tear down, it is enough to pull the original seal head and pour the oil out. Before you reassemble, you can pour oil in the same way to ease the bleed process done later on top for final assembly.


I've got my Pike all torn down and was following the Sram directions but really don't want to take apart the damper. Can you just add oil from the bottom (with the camper upside down) when you swap out the sealhead or is it better to do it with the syringe from the top while doing the bleed?


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> I just went through and replaced all the o-rings and wipers, but didn't touch the seal head. I will have to order the upgrade kit and go through the entire fork.


It's the o-ring seal inside of the seal head that causes the problem so if you replaced that (which came with the old kits included with your fork) then your Pike will work fine... for another 2-3 months of riding or so before it begins to leak again. The new seal head is designed with a spring loaded lower seal which solves the problem so just clarifying that the the solution is the SEAL and not the SEAL HEAD though the latter does help with a larger bushing to reduce lateral shaft loading.

No worries,

G MAN


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

rockman said:


> I've got my Pike all torn down and was following the Sram directions but really don't want to take apart the damper. Can you just add oil from the bottom (with the camper upside down) when you swap out the sealhead or is it better to do it with the syringe from the top while doing the bleed?


Yes, it takes a while to bleed all of the air out since it's past the rebound shim of the piston at the bottom now but just be persistent and make like Billy Squier.

Have FUN!

G MAN


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

rockman said:


> I've got my Pike all torn down and was following the Sram directions but really don't want to take apart the damper. Can you just add oil from the bottom (with the camper upside down) when you swap out the sealhead or is it better to do it with the syringe from the top while doing the bleed?


Cycle the damper a few times before you do the bleed, after changing the seal head. Should allow most of the ingested air to reach the top.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

JoshM said:


> Cycle the damper a few times before you do the bleed, after changing the seal head. Should allow most of the ingested air to reach the top.


I get the bleed part I was just wondering which is the best option for adding the oil in order to minimize additional air getting into the system. From the bottom when swapping out the sealhead or from the top when doing the bleed?

The sram instructions show the oil being added to the cartridge and cycling the rod with the bladder removed which is why I was wondering. No need to take the bladder apart at the junction if the seals are ok.


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Filling the damper with fluid halfway up the bladder and cycling the damper rod while covering the open end with your hand does help to pre-bleed the system. I put on a latex glove and cycle the damper and I'm able to pull a vacuum when cycling the rod. After you do that hopefully the air is in the bladder instead of the damper tube, so it should be easier to get all the air out with the syringe.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

rockman said:


> I get the bleed part I was just wondering which is the best option for adding the oil in order to minimize additional air getting into the system. From the bottom when swapping out the sealhead or from the top when doing the bleed?
> 
> The sram instructions show the oil being added to the cartridge and cycling the rod with the bladder removed which is why I was wondering. No need to take the bladder apart at the junction if the seals are ok.


You don't have to pull apart there if seals are ok. Most of the time I do a full rebuild when replacing seal head anyway. You have to be extra careful when you leave it together. As air can get trapped below the top part of the damper. Might end up being easier to just separate them anyway as it doesn't take long.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

niva1989 said:


> You don't have to pull apart there if seals are ok. Most of the time I do a full rebuild when replacing seal head anyway. You have to be extra careful when you leave it together. As air can get trapped below the top part of the damper. Might end up being easier to just separate them anyway as it doesn't take long.


I did just this but did not disassemble the bladder. It's a bit more tricky than my old Solo Air Lyrik although I still find those c-clips a PIA on the air side. Took a long time to get all the air out as well. I left it for an hour and was surprised how much more air I was able to suck out. I found this write-up a bit easier to follow than the Sram instructions. How to Bleed RockShox Charger Damper | Epic Bleed Solutions


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

rockman said:


> I did just this but did not disassemble the bladder. It's a bit more tricky than my old Solo Air Lyrik although I still find those c-clips a PIA on the air side. Took a long time to get all the air out as well. I left it for an hour and was surprised how much more air I was able to suck out. I found this write-up a bit easier to follow than the Sram instructions. How to Bleed RockShox Charger Damper | Epic Bleed Solutions


That's a great procedure. I forgot about that site. It was good to see a better explanation on fitting the LSC knob back on. The sram manual doesn't explain it properly. It can still be a bit tricky. You need to make sure you don't tighten it up so tight that it slips out of alignment.

Cheers


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I just did a full rebuild with the upgrade kit I bought here.RockShox Pike Solo Air Upgraded Full Service Kit Sealhead Solo Air Damper Seals | eBay

I don't usually plug ebay sellers, but price was the best on the net, I called to verify info and they answered the phone asap, and shipping was really fast. SKF seal head and wiper seals, not the old stock RS stuff.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Same price at Art's. Can probably do better elsewhere as well with a coupon. Rock Shox Pike Upgraded Full Service Kit Solo Air


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^I was going to buy from Art but at the time the sited listed them as out of stock until late march.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

I did some servicing on my Pike today and was checking out the charger damper.

What I noticed is that the damper shaft is around 20cm long but pushing it by hand will compress it around 14cm before it becomes too hard.

I removed the damper from the uppers, inspected it and noticed that it's much easier to compress it almost all the way with it outside the fork.

Obviously, since the bladder is rubber and it expands.

However, since I still haven't gotten my charger bleed adapter, I'm not sure if damper needs a bleed or not.

Is this behavior indicative of air in the damper? I didn't notice any notches in the travel or that there are any dead spots while I'm cycling it up and down.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

the bladder is not in the circuit unless youve already blown off. 

pushing by hand, the damper shaft youd be locked out.

if what I think is correct, youve got air.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

Why do you think it should be locked out if the damper was set to full open?


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

MarinCRO said:


> I did some servicing on my Pike today and was checking out the charger damper.
> 
> What I noticed is that the damper shaft is around 20cm long but pushing it by hand will compress it around 14cm before it becomes too hard.
> 
> ...


Does the bladder look bloated at all?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

MarinCRO said:


> Why do you think it should be locked out if the damper was set to full open?


I missed that detail. To test the damper, I perform open and closed locked out test. My statement is for a closed locked out.

An open damper should be smooth with no gaps in damping when hand cycling the damper.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

Rick Draper said:


> Does the bladder look bloated at all?


Not at rest, expansion is visible when I push the damper rod in completely.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

bing! said:


> I missed that detail. To test the damper, I perform open and closed locked out test. My statement is for a closed locked out.
> 
> An open damper should be smooth with no gaps in damping when hand cycling the damper.


With the damper removed from the fork, should the rebound shaft return under it own force after being compressed? Or should you be able to cycle it in halfway by hand and have it stay in place?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

JoshM said:


> With the damper removed from the fork, should the rebound shaft return under it own force after being compressed? Or should you be able to cycle it in halfway by hand and have it stay in place?


The valving and the bladder will want to push the damper out. This is because pressure will increase in the upper chamber when you cycle the shaft. Not a problem.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Thanks Bing.
So far this winter I've pulled apart 4 pikes between myself and friends, all the dampers rebounded under their own power after a full bleed. So it's good to know I'm on the right track with how they should react under a good bleed vs having air in the damper.

Sound is not indicative of air. Even full of oil and freshly bled, the damper makes a cycling oil (swoosh) noise. Turn the rebound to maximum and it's quite pronounced.

How much oil are you dropping in lowers when you are reassembling fork, and have you ever experimented with removing foam rings? Each of the forks I have done have basically dry rings when removed and just seem to fill with dirt and not keep much oil in them. I'm using 10ml in the damper side and 15ml in the air side.

Not damper related, but I also just discovered some bushing wear marks on the upper tubes of my own personal fork. Can only really see them under a bright light.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Yeah. That happens. I had a member here send me a fork from across the country off his new YT bike with only 5-6 months of use. Some thing happened. RS covered it under warranty. 

I would advise to open new forks and refill oil to the right level just in case. It's fast work and cant' hurt. I can't be sure that it will stop stanchion wear, but that is what Im doing it for. I am now putting 10ml of oil in the damper side according to new recommendations. 

I like the foam rings. The old wisdom was take them out. But back then, people used their seals as long as they can. In the last 5 years, I change them out on every service together with putting in new foam rings. The foam rings acts to retain oil close to the main seal. It gets replenished when the fork cycles and splashes oil. They will get dry when oil is low, at which point, the fork should be serviced, new oil added, and new foam rings installed. I saturate foam rings in oil before installation. That increases oil besides the 10ml I put in there.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

Update on my issue.
I recently visited Specialized demo event and there were some Fox guys and I got to see FIT4 damper from 36.
What immediately struck me how bladder was compressed with damper shaft extended and how it expanded upon compressing the shaft.
So I figured that my damper bladder was overfilled with oil most likely and that was the cause of so-so performance and the fact it wasn't compressing fully.

After removing the snap ring and LSC needle, oil started to spill out, probably around 5 or 10ml. I gently squeezed the bladder to avoid any air getting in and reinstalled the LSC needle and snap ring. 
After assembling it back together and getting a ride today I must say that the fork feels fantastic. 
I need to put more air in the Pike as well (around 80PSI for a 150mm with 1 token for my ~88kg).
The fork is so smooth now, very responsive and tracks great, no more jarring harsh feedback on fast square edge hits.

So, if your Pike feels a bit stiff and can't get the whole travel out of it, it might be worth checking out if your Charger damper is overfilled with oil.



MarinCRO said:


> I did some servicing on my Pike today and was checking out the charger damper.
> 
> What I noticed is that the damper shaft is around 20cm long but pushing it by hand will compress it around 14cm before it becomes too hard.
> 
> ...


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Did it come over filled in the first place?

It's almost impossible to overfill it unless it's being done intentionally when bleeding.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

MarinCRO said:


> Update on my issue.
> I recently visited Specialized demo event and there were some Fox guys and I got to see FIT4 damper from 36.
> What immediately struck me how bladder was compressed with damper shaft extended and how it expanded upon compressing the shaft.
> So I figured that my damper bladder was overfilled with oil most likely and that was the cause of so-so performance and the fact it wasn't compressing fully.
> ...


Once you had done this did you cycle the damper to see if you had any air trapped in the damper? Usually the bladder becomes expanded when air has been drawn into the damper past the lower seal head.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

I cycled the damper after assembling it back together and didn't notice any air. Bladder expands a bit after inserting the damper rod all the way in but it's normal, right? As the same thing happens with Fit4, it's just that that damper is compressed in the start.

Very good mechanic told me to gently squeeze it and not cycle it with the lsc needle out to avoid air getting in and that it's most likely overfilled bladder.
The fork was originally 160mm model, but I got a 150mm air shaft, so it might have been slightly overpressurized from the start, exacerbated by the reduction of travel.

If there was air in it, wouldn't it rise to the top of the damper? Also, I never noticed any extra oil while servicing the lowers several times which should show if the damper somehow sucked air past the seal head, right?
My Pike is from end of 2014, so hopefully it's got good seal head, if not, well I can always rebuild it... 

I'll ride it as it is and if I notice any issues, I'll have the damper serviced properly.

As it is the fork is working great, I recently tested few SWorks bikes with RS1, Fox 34 and Pikes and my Pike is working as good if not better than any of those, and those were in great shape.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

Well, after the first ride, I checked the compression settings and it seems like there's no difference between lockout modes which suggest air in the damper.
I'm having it serviced by a mechanic using the existing seal head, if the problem persists, I'll get new full rebuild set and bleed kit and have a go.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

MarinCRO said:


> Well, after the first ride, I checked the compression settings and it seems like there's no difference between lockout modes which suggest air in the damper.
> I'm having it serviced by a mechanic using the existing seal head, if the problem persists, I'll get new full rebuild set and bleed kit and have a go.


Thought this would be the case. The air was probably trapped in the main damper tube. If I was you I would just bite the bullet and have the new seal head installed now and save the rest of the service kit. The problem will only re-appear if you don't. No point paying to do a job twice.


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## ~Ish (Aug 25, 2009)

Rick Draper said:


> Thought this would be the case. The air was probably trapped in the main damper tube. If I was you I would just bite the bullet and have the new seal head installed now and save the rest of the service kit. The problem will only re-appear if you don't. No point paying to do a job twice.


^^^This


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

~Ish said:


> ^^^This


Agreed. It literally takes two minutes once the damper is out.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

JoshM said:


> Agreed. It literally takes two minutes once the damper is out.


I think it took me about three minutes, give or take.


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## MarinCRO (Jul 31, 2013)

He did the whole damper seal change, so that's good. New seals everywhere. I'll rebuild air spring on my own using fresh seals so I get completely freshly serviced fork.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

It seems everyone is out of stock on new style Damper seal head. I only see the $42 Bikeman item, that sells me a ton of o rings I don't need, as my fork box included the rebuild kit.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Anybody have the walkthrough on how to bleed the Charger Damper without removing it? I thought I read somewhere you can do this without tearing the fork apart.

NVM: Here is the "easy bleed" procedure: How to Bleed RockShox Charger Damper | Epic Bleed Solutions

Also, is there a walkthrough on rebuilding the air spring?

NVM Again: The SRAM Service Manual documents how to service the air spring.


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## eric24v (Oct 26, 2008)

hoolie said:


> It seems everyone is out of stock on new style Damper seal head. I only see the $42 Bikeman item, that sells me a ton of o rings I don't need, as my fork box included the rebuild kit.


Art's Cyclery (solo air kit) - Rock Shox Pike Upgraded Full Service Kit Solo Air

They also have the DPA version too


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

hoolie said:


> It seems everyone is out of stock on new style Damper seal head. I only see the $42 Bikeman item, that sells me a ton of o rings I don't need, as my fork box included the rebuild kit.


The kit that comes with the forks is only a lower leg service kit. It wont hurt to buy a full service kit as you will need it one day.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

So yesterday I replaced my RC rebound damper and seal head, thoroughly bled the whole damper and verified there was no air by cycling the rebound shaft by hand and feeling for cavitation.

However, when installed in the fork and twisting the knob all the way to lock, on first compression there's a slight increase in damping, but it isn't until the second compression that the damper fully engages and the compression stiffens up.

This happened before the service and I thought it was a bleed issue.

I'm not entirely concerned since I rarely use the compression adjustments, but I'm curious if anybody has any ideas about what might be causing the delay in engagement of the compression circuits.


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## matixsnow (Mar 14, 2007)

I have the same bushing marks on a very new 2015 pike fork. I couldn't figure out how it happened. Is it simply the bushing or something getting stuck near the bushings/seals? Not sure...


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

matixsnow said:


> I have the same bushing marks on a very new 2015 pike fork. I couldn't figure out how it happened. Is it simply the bushing or something getting stuck near the bushings/seals? Not sure...


I'm guessing from either lack of lubrication or a bad bushing fit/design. Maybe some sort of chassis flex? I'm 6'5" 230lbs. Mine doesn't seem to be wearing very fast, but since I have a two year warranty on the fork I'll send mine back at the end of riding season and hope for a warranty replacement. It doesn't seem to hurt fork performance at all, and I've made sure to keep the lowers serviced regularly to keep the insides clean and well lubed.


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## matixsnow (Mar 14, 2007)

Must be bad bushing fit. I don't see this on any of my other RS or Fox forks. I changed the travel when the fork was new and put in the recommended oil levels. Good to know, thanks for sharing.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

below


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

PHeller said:


> Anybody have the walkthrough on how to bleed the Charger Damper without removing it? I thought I read somewhere you can do this without tearing the fork apart.
> 
> NVM: Here is the "easy bleed" procedure: How to Bleed RockShox Charger Damper | Epic Bleed Solutions
> 
> ...


The 2 guides look very different w.r.t. the bleeding procedure - which one you followed?


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

So, I did a full service of both the charger and the air sides with the 'new' full service kit which included the new SKF seals.
Now, after putting it all together I checked the Pike on my bike by pumping it. The air side seal had come out of the place after a few such pumpings (a big luck it did not explode on me while landing a jump...)
I did install the seals 'correctly' with the dedicated tool. I now wonder if I made some mistake(s) when putting it all together, or the seal is defective?
Any suggestions are highly appreciated (and very well needed)!
Thanks,
Paul


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

The lower air seal head is probably leaking. The outer seal is very very tight to pass past the circlip grooves, it always stands a chance or cutting or getting nipped. The new one more so as its a lot tighter.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Rick Draper said:


> The lower air seal head is probably leaking. The outer seal is very very tight to pass past the circlip grooves, it always stands a chance or cutting or getting nipped. The new one more so as its a lot tighter.


so, is there an easy test to validate the reason of the problem ? and,is it unlikely a defective SKF pops up?


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## Nimthor (Feb 23, 2013)

So after 2 years I popped the bladder in the damper. How often does this happen?









Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

paulki said:


> so, is there an easy test to validate the reason of the problem ? and,is it unlikely a defective SKF pops up?


Leave it popped up, check air pressure in the spring and cycle it. It should remain the same. The air from the spring should not be going to the lower leg unless there's a problem with the air spring's seals.


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

I've got a Pike RC. So my damper is freshly bled and the fork feels great, but the low-speed compression adjustment doesn't appear to make any difference until about three clicks from full lock. Normal? Wearing out? Full lock is indeed full lock, but after that damping drops off very quickly.


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## paulki (Nov 17, 2010)

Varaxis said:


> Leave it popped up, check air pressure in the spring and cycle it. It should remain the same. The air from the spring should not be going to the lower leg unless there's a problem with the air spring's seals.


I did this test - actually, filled in 80PSI instead of my regular 60PSI. Cycled it a few times.
It holds the pressure... (with the wiper popped, not installed)

What else can be the reason of the wiper popping? (I installed it twice with the same result)
Where else can the air get sucked into lowers from? Lower bolt, not tight wiper?

Thanks in advance for the help.
Paul


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Did anyone else change the shim stack on their Pike yet? I've got a Pike RC 160 (27.5), and never used the last 2-3cm of travel when using 25% sag. (110psi). It also felt harsh over rough surfaces at higher speeds, so I figured I'd reduce the damping.
I measured the original stack as follows:
Piston
18 x 0.15 face shim
18 x 0.3 ring shim combined with 16x0.1 center shim
18 x 0.2
18 x 0.2
18 x 0.2
18 x 0.2
8 x 0.4 (spacer)
8 x 0.4 (spacer)
8 x 0.4 (spacer)
8 x 0.4 (spacer)

So i figured that's a VERY stiff stack, which is probably needed to maintain a lockout on full LSC... which I never need.
So I moved three of the spacer shims in the middle of the four 18x0.2 compressionshims to soften the stack, and lower preload... I'll be testing it the coming weekend, and I'll get back to you.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

two-one said:


> Did anyone else change the shim stack on their Pike yet? I've got a Pike RC 160 (27.5), and never used the last 2-3cm of travel when using 25% sag. (110psi). It also felt harsh over rough surfaces at higher speeds, so I figured I'd reduce the damping.
> I measured the original stack as follows:
> Piston
> 18 x 0.15 face shim
> ...


That's the stack I found in the 26" 150mm Pike RC I have here. The one that was soo damn stiff the owner (Mudguard) couldn't get full travel.

Initially I ditched the preload ring shim and basically cut the stack in half. That got the owner full travel, but it still felt harsh and I didn't get any further.

He's now riding a Mattoc. I have that Pike here but have done nothing more with it.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

two-one said:


> Did anyone else change the shim stack on their Pike yet? I've got a Pike RC 160 (27.5), and never used the last 2-3cm of travel when using 25% sag. (110psi). It also felt harsh over rough surfaces at higher speeds, so I figured I'd reduce the damping.
> I measured the original stack as follows:
> Piston
> 18 x 0.15 face shim
> ...


110psi is a hell of a lot of pressure for a pike, how much you weigh? By my estimate, it would be around 240lb?


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

Does changing the shim stack have any affect on the damper in its full-open setting?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Just installed the Avy Cart in my Pike, and wouldn't you know nothing but rain and family getting in the way of me riding! 

Installation was easy peasy...hoping this mod makes me forking happy!


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

Jayem said:


> 110psi is a hell of a lot of pressure for a pike, how much you weigh? By my estimate, it would be around 240lb?


It's a dual-position version, so it needs higher pressures. The advised pressure is 125psi. I weigh around 200lbs.

This I weekend I did some rides, and the fork has really loosened up over rough stuff!
The adjustment range has seriously shifted, because 0 clicks from open is now downhill bike soft, while halfway feels like the original "open" setting... and all the way closed feels like a light platform that prevents bobbing during seated pedalling, or like a supportive mode for jumptrails.

Because of the softer damper, I am now capable of using 120psi of pressure, pushing the fork into the 20% sag range. This gives a slacker headangle for more confidence in rough terrain, and I can now use the lower setting of the dual-position spring on climbs without bashing my pedals into rocks (my giant reign has a very low bottombracket).

Overall, the fork is lot more plush, but also less "poppy"... so you really have to take your riding style into consideration before making this modification. You can of course always go halfway, by only moving just one of the 18x0.2 shims.

@Dougal, I find the question of shimstack-preload vs shimstack-thickness a very interesting one. I personally love the feel of "damping blowoff" when hitting a root or rock, while having a reasonable stiff feel during normal riding movements. That's the reason why I kept the ring shim in place. I know most tuners use non-preloaded stacks, as does motocross suspension, but I figure that a motocross bike needs a lot more damping in the highspeed range because of the (much) heavier machine. I'd love your perspective on the matter.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

Do you think that shim mod would help a lighter (150 lb.) rider?

The fork just doesn't keep up with fast stutter trail stuff for me.
I spoke to the rockshox rep at sea otter, no help from him other than advise on adjustments.
Been all over that for quite some time!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

two-one said:


> It's a dual-position version, so it needs higher pressures. The advised pressure is 125psi. I weigh around 200lbs.
> 
> This I weekend I did some rides, and the fork has really loosened up over rough stuff!
> The adjustment range has seriously shifted, because 0 clicks from open is now downhill bike soft, while halfway feels like the original "open" setting... and all the way closed feels like a light platform that prevents bobbing during seated pedalling, or like a supportive mode for jumptrails.


It's typical OEM tunes IMO. Somewhere some designer thought zero chassis stability was the best for "DH", but I think it more comes from an inability to tune high speed damping for different body weights, in terms of the valving. If they really did try to have decent low-speed damping (which would give you that stroke-support) then the high speed damping would probably only work for a very narrow body weight range and be a jackhammer elsewhere. So when riding downhill aggressively, as in the bike park, I usually had to run the charger about halfway on the low-speed compression. It wasn't very "plush", like in the "descend" position, but it did control the dive better and allow me to ride faster with more control.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jonshonda said:


> Just installed the Avy Cart in my Pike, and wouldn't you know nothing but rain and family getting in the way of me riding!
> 
> Installation was easy peasy...hoping this mod makes me forking happy!


I got the cart in my Lyrik and have been using it for almost 2 weeks. Damn I love having this much support from the damping. It's unbelievable (well, almost) that you can ram rock gardens and root-complexes at full speed and just have it suck it up without some crazy chassis diving/popping or jack-hammer effect. It is a little stiffer at lower speed, which I'm fine with, because the faster you go over rough terrain, the better it gets. I did have to decrease compression and rebound about 2 clicks each, and it seems pretty dialed. PSI is about 5 lower than Craig's recommendation, so adding all that up it makes sense (a little less damping for less pressure). I have the hydraulic anti-bottoming system too, which led me to take out the remaining token in the air-chamber. When I take it to the bike park I'll probably put the token back in and might have to increase the pressure a bit along with the damping, for the more aggressive riding, but for now it's amazing and it just gives you that support that you want from the damping.

Just pushing down, the damping seems heavy...like really heavy. But so stable on the trail...


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## eicca (May 9, 2014)

I'm curious if this would help my fork feel better. It doesn't seem to make any difference until 3 clicks from full lock but could use a little extra plushness.


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## Track_Master (Nov 30, 2013)

Jayem said:


> I got the cart in my Lyrik and have been using it for almost 2 weeks. Damn I love having this much support from the damping. It's unbelievable (well, almost) that you can ram rock gardens and root-complexes at full speed and just have it suck it up without some crazy chassis diving/popping or jack-hammer effect. It is a little stiffer at lower speed, which I'm fine with, because the faster you go over rough terrain, the better it gets. I did have to decrease compression and rebound about 2 clicks each, and it seems pretty dialed. PSI is about 5 lower than Craig's recommendation, so adding all that up it makes sense (a little less damping for less pressure). I have the hydraulic anti-bottoming system too, which led me to take out the remaining token in the air-chamber. When I take it to the bike park I'll probably put the token back in and might have to increase the pressure a bit along with the damping, for the more aggressive riding, but for now it's amazing and it just gives you that support that you want from the damping.
> 
> Just pushing down, the damping seems heavy...like really heavy. But so stable on the trail...


Can't wait!! I get my cart this week!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

two-one said:


> @Dougal, I find the question of shimstack-preload vs shimstack-thickness a very interesting one. I personally love the feel of "damping blowoff" when hitting a root or rock, while having a reasonable stiff feel during normal riding movements. That's the reason why I kept the ring shim in place. I know most tuners use non-preloaded stacks, as does motocross suspension, but I figure that a motocross bike needs a lot more damping in the highspeed range because of the (much) heavier machine. I'd love your perspective on the matter.


I am also a fan of digressive stacks with decent low speed compression. But there's a fine-line between it feeling "taut and controlled" and feeling harsh on the small stuff.

I should get back to these at some stage to work out a few good tunes.


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

I don't know what the shim stack of the RCT3 model is like, I just measured my own RC model... so if anyone happens to pull theirs apart, I'd love to compare them


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

I'm experiencing this one in my 2015 Pike 29" 140mm RCT3:

I've varied the air pressure from 60 psi to 80 psi with 3 tokens at my weight of 160#

- Lockout position doesn't seem to lockout - I can still push it
- Lockout position is only 'a bit' stiffer than Pedal position and the difference is barely noticeable
- LSC in Open position barely has an effect at either extreme ends ie furthest anticlockwise and furthest clockwise barely changes performance

Q: What do I need to look into given the situations above?

I haven't opened the damper side yet, but only played with the air spring side. One of the observations I've had is that when all of the air is removed from the spring side, the fork just drops more than half regardless of the rebound knob position. This happens with just the weight of the bike, which is approx 27#. When I pump air back, it rises normally and achieves the correct height of 140mm.

Q: Is this normal for the damper to just drop with just the weight of the bike without air?

Further questions:
- Has anyone ever used a different brand of fork oil? Where I live, I only have a few options, maxima being easiest.
- Can the damper be removed without taking off the lowers? I'm thinking of just letting the air out, removing the rebound knob/bolt and pulling out the damper for service.
- (Dumb one), 'till how much can the crush washer be re-used? (Ideally, it's non-reusable)


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## matixsnow (Mar 14, 2007)

Sounds like something going on with the damper. It may require a simple damper bleed or rebuild. I can't say exactly what is wrong without seeing it, but can give you some service thoughts. 

You have to remove the bottom lower bolt on the damper side and drain the oil out of the lower. That will release the damper piston from the lower leg. Then you can remove the LSC and lockout knobs, loosen the damper and remove the entire assembly. There are several service guides online that walk you through all of this step by step. 

Crush washer...that's up to you. You can order a few new ones and simply replace every time you service the fork or re-use the existing and keep an eye on it for oil leaks. Sure, used washers can work, but if you have a new one, why not.

I would order the SRAM specific oil since you can easily order it online.

I'll keep thinking and post additional thoughts...


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> I'm experiencing this one in my 2015 Pike 29" 140mm RCT3:
> 
> I've varied the air pressure from 60 psi to 80 psi with 3 tokens at my weight of 160#
> 
> ...


The fork dropping with the weight of the bike is fine. The air spring does all the work of keeping the fork extended. Basically the damping is to control the motion of the fork during operation. The lockout position on the Pike really shouldn't be called a lockout as i have rebuilt many of them now and haven't come across one that fully locks out, even from new. I also have a 2016 Lyrik that is the same. They should change the label to 'Firm'. You wont notice a huge difference from pedal to lock positions just pushing it down with your weight but out on the trail it will be noticeably stiffer than pedal pos. Basically the 2 stiffer positions will help with brake dive and keep the fork higher up in its travel.

There may be nothing wrong with your fork. Sounds like you are running too much air. I am 220lb in riding kit and run 80psi with 2 tokens.

If you have a a fair few hours on it now then it might be a good time to service the lowers and damper anyway. Even if you just change the oil and re-bleed the damper then you can have some piece of mind there by double checking the LSC needle position. Not sure if your fork was manufactured before or after the cutoff for the new damper sealhead. If you have the old sealhead then it would be worth upgrading at the same time because it will eventually give you trouble. Check the service manual for more info on this as it will give you serial number cutoffs. The service manual will also list the tools you need to bleed the damper.

Personally I don't reuse the crush washers but know they most likely won't leak short term based on forum feedback I have read.

Hope this answers your questions


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

niva1989 said:


> The fork dropping with the weight of the bike is fine. The air spring does all the work of keeping the fork extended. Basically the damping is to control the motion of the fork during operation. The lockout position on the Pike really shouldn't be called a lockout as i have rebuilt many of them now and haven't come across one that fully locks out, even from new. I also have a 2016 Lyrik that is the same. They should change the label to 'Firm'. You wont notice a huge difference from pedal to lock positions just pushing it down with your weight but out on the trail it will be noticeably stiffer than pedal pos. Basically the 2 stiffer positions will help with brake dive and keep the fork higher up in its travel.
> 
> There may be nothing wrong with your fork. Sounds like you are running too much air. I am 220lb in riding kit and run 80psi with 2 tokens.
> 
> ...


mine is 29T5. if i understood things correctly, this 'should' be the upgraded one. by being an upgraded one, is this the same as with nsdynamics?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> mine is 29T5. if i understood things correctly, this 'should' be the upgraded one. by being an upgraded one, is this the same as with nsdynamics?


Good news on the seal head. They are both upgraded seal heads so should be fine.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

niva1989 said:


> Good news on the seal head. They are both upgraded seal heads so should be fine.


so.... all i need are
- bleed kit attachment
- oils
- spare crush washers (in replacement from those in the packaged kit)


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> so.... all i need are
> - bleed kit attachment
> - oils
> - spare crush washers (in replacement from those in the packaged kit)


Sounds good. I still think that you may not have a problem though.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Drop your air pressure, 80psi is pretty high for a 160lb rider with the 140mm 29 fork.
I've got the exact fork and run between 85-90psi @230lbs with two tokens and have to really ride hard to bottom out.
Remove the damper and cycle it by hand. If the damper is working correctly, you should be able to turn the compression adjust to lockout and not be able to compress the rebound shaft at all. Having the compression mode knob turned to open mode should allow you to cycle the rebound shaft through its entire stroke with light resistance. This is all using hand strength only with the lower bolt threaded into the shaft. 
Remember that lockout has a blow off that allows oil to flow so as not to cause any damage to the damper, when you stand over the bars and press on the fork (parking lot test) you are just able to overcome that blowoff. On a long fire road climb you'll really notice how it feels much stiffer than in open for climbing bob.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

JoshM said:


> Drop your air pressure, 80psi is pretty high for a 160lb rider with the 140mm 29 fork.
> I've got the exact fork and run between 85-90psi @230lbs with two tokens and have to really ride hard to bottom out.
> Remove the damper and cycle it by hand. If the damper is working correctly, you should be able to turn the compression adjust to lockout and not be able to compress the rebound shaft at all. Having the compression mode knob turned to open mode should allow you to cycle the rebound shaft through its entire stroke with light resistance. This is all using hand strength only with the lower bolt threaded into the shaft.
> Remember that lockout has a blow off that allows oil to flow so as not to cause any damage to the damper, when you stand over the bars and press on the fork (parking lot test) you are just able to overcome that blowoff. On a long fire road climb you'll really notice how it feels much stiffer than in open for climbing bob.


what are indications that a re bleed is needed?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> what are indications that a re bleed is needed?


You will have excess free play at the end of the stroke if air is in the damper. I am still not convinced you have a problem but I thought if you have enough hrs on the fork then an oil change and damper bleed wouldn't hurt. I think you have too much air pressure in the fork. Set your sag between 20-30% and see what pressure it takes to get that. To begin with I would burp the air side by letting all of the air out and fully compressing the fork. You will probably have to burp the negative air chamber to fully compress by slipping a small cable tie behind the lip of your stanchion seal. This will reset the air side. I do this every now and again and it makes a big difference.

I am pretty close to same weight as JoshM and run same set-up. I haven't bottomed out yet either and ride some pretty wild trails.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

Ok, in this ride I did, the setup was

- 3 tokens
- 30% sag (bec of possible inaccuracy of the pump i just base it on sag markings)
- full open lsc (full anti clockwise)
- full open rebound (full rabbit)
- open position

do you think it's worth adding the last token?

'so far' i have no plans of using the trail/lock

i haven't made any jumps or hops beyond 1 ft yet in this setup though...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Have said it before, but IMO, the pike runs better with ~20% sag, not 30, it's not enough spring pressure and you'll bottom out on bigger stuff. If you haven't done any hops beyond 1 foot, I don't think that's enough reserve travel.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

spyghost said:


> what are indications that a re bleed is needed?


IMO the best way to get a feel for the damper is to take off the lowers and cycle the damper rod by hand. Go through the full range of damper setting so you know how they feel. The LSC adjustments in Open are quite subtle. If you don't feel any damping resistance or there is a lot of squishing sound the damper needs work.

Be sure to have some rags around to clean up any mess when you drop your lowers and play with the shaft...

Settings, the air pressure setting posted on the fork work well for me at 180. The fork does run better at less sag, like 20%. I run at least 5 clicks in of LSC. I think the tokens make a difference for bottom out resistance and can only be felt changing the air spring ramp up at the very final stages of travel. Unless you are bottoming out hard, often, with 20% sag, with some LSC on board I'd just leave the tokens at stock set up.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> Ok, in this ride I did, the setup was
> 
> - 3 tokens
> - 30% sag (bec of possible inaccuracy of the pump i just base it on sag markings)
> ...


I'd give it some lsc. Maybe 4 or 5 clicks to help with brake dive. This and the tokens will make it feel like it has some more midstroke support and will be less likely to bottom out. I agree with others that 20% is the better sag setting for pike. They will stil feel plush at that sag setting. . This would be a good all round setup starting point and you can tweak from there.i wouldn't go more than 3 tokens.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

one thing that i'm trying to achieve is to be able to use just the open mode (if that is even achievable) hence trying to use the max tokens i can while still being able to use all travel...


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

niva1989 said:


> I am pretty close to same weight as JoshM and run same set-up. I haven't bottomed out yet either and ride some pretty wild trails.


What are you running for rebound and lsc? I find 8-10 clicks for rebound is just about perfect for the trails I'm riding.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

JoshM said:


> What are you running for rebound and lsc? I find 8-10 clicks for rebound is just about perfect for the trails I'm riding.


Hey Josh. I run 8 clicks rebound. I am actually running a Lyrik now and have set it up the same as my Pike was. My friends run a bit more rebound damping but I find it starts to pack up a bit on repeated bumps. For the full on DH trails I run a few more clicks. Here in Sydney Australia we have a varied selection of mainly natural unmaintained trails. I run 5 clicks of lsc.but on DH trails with big hits and drops I open it up a bit.


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

niva1989 said:


> I'd give it some lsc. Maybe 4 or 5 clicks to help with brake dive. This and the tokens will make it feel like it has some more midstroke support and will be less likely to bottom out. I agree with others that 20% is the better sag setting for pike. They will stil feel plush at that sag setting. . This would be a good all round setup starting point and you can tweak from there.*i wouldn't go more than 3 tokens.*


hmmm, why wouldn't i go beyond 3 tokens? i'm just playing with possibilities here. if i do bottom out or nearly bottom out at 3 tokens, then i think i should go beyond, perhaps even maxing it out at 4 tokens... (isn't that the purpose of tokens, ie to prevent bottoming out?) i am well aware that suspension setup is dependent on rider, terrain and skill, but looking at this, the setup was maxed out Video Comparison of RockShox Bottomless Tokens in a Pike Fork - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> hmmm, why wouldn't i go beyond 3 tokens? i'm just playing with possibilities here. if i do bottom out or nearly bottom out at 3 tokens, then i think i should go beyond, perhaps even maxing it out at 4 tokens... (isn't that the purpose of tokens, ie to prevent bottoming out?) i am well aware that suspension setup is dependent on rider, terrain and skill, but looking at this, the setup was maxed out Video Comparison of RockShox Bottomless Tokens in a Pike Fork - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


Your right. It is a rider/personal thing. I personally prefer a slightly linear feel but am beginning to appreciate the progressive feel. Who am I to say how many tokens you should run. I can only say what works for me. I think you should try 4 if you want to. Me and many others would be interested in hearing what you think. You may even convince me to try it out.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

I run my fork in open 99% of the time. Only using pedal mode during road or double track sections.
I've tried up to 4 tokens in my pike, but found that dropping the pressure after adding tokens made the first half of travel too soft. Getting out of the saddle to climb caused lots of motion during climbing.
Niva nailed it above, the benefit of a good functioning pike is the tune ability you can get to make it feel how you like.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I had been bottoming out a bit too much on a couple of bigger drops in the area so I've been using 4 tokens as of late, with 50psi on the 140mm Pike. I'm at 160# riding weight.


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## jmallory (Jul 29, 2008)

Hey all, my pike is a few years old and has developed a creak in the CSU in the past month. Then yesterday it felt strange while out on a ride and all the rebound adjustments have no change in the fork. It is basically a fast rebound pogo stick at this point. The shop is taking it apart today. Would this be a Charger issue?


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

jmallory said:


> ...all the rebound adjustments have no change in the fork. It is basically a fast rebound pogo stick at this point. The shop is taking it apart today. Would this be a Charger issue?


Sounds like there's no oil in the damper. Probably leaked out through the lower seal head, or the bladder burst open.


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## jmallory (Jul 29, 2008)

bad andy said:


> Sounds like there's no oil in the damper. Probably leaked out through the lower seal head, or the bladder burst open.


Easy/cheap fix? Hopefully I'll hear today what the verdict is.


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## jmallory (Jul 29, 2008)

Bladder burst. Warranty from SRAM


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

If anyone needs a spare charger damper, I have a complete one from when I switched to over to the Avy Open bath. 

I make you good deal!


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## Rockrover (Jul 4, 2012)

^^ Jon, any chance of a review on your Avy? I'm about to pull the trigger myself. TIA!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Rockrover said:


> ^^ Jon, any chance of a review on your Avy? I'm about to pull the trigger myself. TIA!


Goddamn amazing. I got the cart with the optional anti-bottom-out cone. So much support, doesn't dive, ram it through a rock or root-complex at high speed and it maintains stability and the chassis doesn't dive or buck. Well worth it iMO. No worrying about charger seals, etc.


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## softbatch (Aug 19, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Goddamn amazing. I got the cart with the optional anti-bottom-out cone. So much support, doesn't dive, ram it through a rock or root-complex at high speed and it maintains stability and the chassis doesn't dive or buck. Well worth it iMO. No worrying about charger seals, etc.


What he said ...


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

softbatch said:


> What he said ...


I am a heavy rider @ 240 lbs and found the pike to be a real handfull on downhill slow tech, rock gardens, and brake dive. Fork doesn't dive when encountering large objects at low speed, rides higher in the travel, and takes makes me a lot more confident on the bike.

It's a lot of money for a fork that was expensive to start off with, but is pretty awesome. I asked for an XC/trail tune as I am using this on my tallboy, and other than no longer having a lockout function for out of the saddle climbs, I 100% happy!


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## dynamicz (Sep 14, 2007)

Hi All,

I am having a bit of issue with the completion of the Charger damper bleed.

*On page 37 of the manual, Step 31 "RCT3 Only: Use a 15 mm socket wrench to turn the compression cam assembly counter-clockwise until it stops."
*
https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen_0000000004461_rev_b_2014_-_present_pike.pdf

Using a 15mm socket wrench I am slowly rotating the tool counter-clockwise but am unable to achieve the turning to stop, the cam assembly is rotating infinitely. All steps prior to this step was done without issue and correctly.

This is the third time do a full service of the lowers and damper (12 seal and oil services) to this fork and have encountered this issue.

Let me know if there is any steps i need to re-visit or this thing is going to warranty service.

Big Thanks!


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

dynamicz said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I am having a bit of issue with the completion of the Charger damper bleed.
> 
> ...


What happened back at step 22 where you have to do the same thing but with a cone wrench? If it worked ok in that step then nothing could have changed. Not sure what is going on as I haven't had this happen before. You could check steps 19 and 20 again to make sure it locks in place but it must be in ok if you got the circlip in place as it has to drop down into position to fit that in but maybe it does need to click into place and line up with the main damper body to locate the bottom half that moves up and down as you twist.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

Maybe try with this. Descriptions are little better 

How to Bleed RockShox Charger Damper | Epic Bleed Solutions


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

Okay, looking for some advice. I have a Pike RC Dual Position that is pre-26T5, went to do a service and discovered a bunch of suspension fluid in the damper leg. So glad to have found this thread! I am assuming its the shoddy seal that is causing the problems. I need the bike in the following week so I'm going to see if my LBS can do the refill and bleed as a short term solution but moving forward should I

A. Order the NSD seal (60.00), full seal kit, (40.00), bleed kit (30.00) and have a go at fixing it, with the possibility that it isn't the seal and it could still be pooched

or 

B. order a new RCT3 damper internals on Amazon for $215 and have the peace of mind that it all should work as it should since its a new damper with the improved seal.

Thoughts?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

C. Order the Avalance open bath replacement damper that is tuned for your weight and never worry about the damper leaking again?


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Jayem said:


> C. Order the Avalance open bath replacement damper that is tuned for your weight and never worry about the damper leaking again?


Jayem, your constant pushing is really starting to burn a hole in my wallet...


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

Ha! Yeah, I can't quite do the hit to the wallet on that one.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

bigkat273 said:


> Jayem, your constant pushing is really starting to burn a hole in my wallet...


I'll lay off if it for a while. I just saw it as less frustration and possibly less $$$ over the long run.


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

update, have the opportunity to get an RC damper from pinkbike for $150. Brand new, 2016. Jump on it?


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## spyghost (Oct 30, 2012)

niva1989 said:


> Your right. It is a rider/personal thing. I personally prefer a slightly linear feel but am beginning to appreciate the progressive feel. Who am I to say how many tokens you should run. I can only say what works for me. I think you should try 4 if you want to. Me and many others would be interested in hearing what you think. You may even convince me to try it out.


Today I had all 4 tokens installed in my 140 pike. sag at 20%, lsc 6 clicks and rebound 13 clicks both of which from full close.

i haves gone through berms and corners yet as the rain was pretty hard and these sections are muddy slippery like crazy.

the sections i've gone through are rocky descents and a few grippy flat land turns. so far, i've used most travel and left around 10mm before bottoming out.

just for comparison, my test last week was with 3 tokens, 20% sag, 3 clicks lsc from close, 4 clicks rebound from open. i felt arm pump in this setting in the hope of riding a bit higher and not to nearly bottom out - 3 tokens for me still feel soft.

for casual riding yea i think i can go down to just 2 (stock) but with the way i ride and where i ride, i should be using all 4


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

spyghost said:


> Today I had all 4 tokens installed in my 140 pike. sag at 20%, lsc 6 clicks and rebound 13 clicks both of which from full close.
> 
> i haves gone through berms and corners yet as the rain was pretty hard and these sections are muddy slippery like crazy.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the feedback. Sounds like where you ride warrants the 4th token.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

lubike said:


> update, have the opportunity to get an RC damper from pinkbike for $150. Brand new, 2016. Jump on it?


If you have been happy with the performance of the RC then go for it. Sounds like the best solution for you with a week to get it sorted.


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## kolja (May 5, 2016)

On my Pike RCT3 DPA, I'm running 1 token and 78psi (27% sag in attack position) with 5 clicks of LSC AND 13 clicks of rebound from closed. It still feels quite harsh on rough rocky sections, what else can I try to improve the performance?
I've also recently had a full rebuild \ service.
( I weigh 68 kg with gear)
Thanks


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

kolja said:


> On my Pike RCT3 DPA, I'm running 1 token and 78psi (27% sag in attack position) with 5 clicks of LSC AND 13 clicks of rebound from closed. It still feels quite harsh on rough rocky sections, what else can I try to improve the performance?
> I've also recently had a full rebuild \ service.
> ( I weigh 68 kg with gear)
> Thanks


I am also 68kg with gear. My pike is a 140mm, I found with my style of riding I used to have one token. 1 click of lsc, I may pop that up to 2 or 3 for steep technical stuff. And my rebound always ended up at 6 clicks from slow. Maybe I would push it to 7.
Two years trying everything ended up the same.
I have moved to a fast upgrade now, which improved things a lot.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

SoloAir and DPA can vary with setting. My pike is Soloair 160mm 80psi sag 22% with 3 tokens. For big drops i have to set rebound to 13clicks from fast or i get catapulted  without tokens it could be even 8 click.

Harshness can come from too slow rebound, fork pack up or air in the lowers. Did you burp it?


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Maybe I'm bucking the trend, but sounds to me like there may be an over emphasis on playing with tokens to get the fork to feel right.

I'm pretty sure the tokens only make a noticeable difference at the end of travel when dealing with final ramp up and bottom out prevention.

Sure, they will shift the entire spring curve slightly but is it noticeable on the trail at say, half way through travel?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

kolja said:


> On my Pike RCT3 DPA, I'm running 1 token and 78psi (27% sag in attack position) with 5 clicks of LSC AND 13 clicks of rebound from closed. It still feels quite harsh on rough rocky sections, what else can I try to improve the performance?
> I've also recently had a full rebuild \ service.
> ( I weigh 68 kg with gear)
> Thanks


That sounds like heaps of air for your weight. I'm 102kg and run 80psi to get 27% sag. I ran a pike 160 and now a Lyrik 170 and both setups are pretty similar. Maybe it's a dpa thing. I have only ever run solo air. I'd suggest playing with your rebound. I tweek mine a bit depending on the trail. With your light weight you can afford to run almost no lsc.


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

is there a substantial difference in performance with the RCT3? From what I have gathered from internet sleuthing, the only difference is that the RCT3 has the two stages of "pedalling platform" and that the open setting is the exact same as the RC. I have a Dual Position and I do use it alot for climbing, so I don't feel the need for the pedaling platform, but is the actual performance better? I could get an RCT3 for $215.


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## Rootsboy (Mar 25, 2013)

Rootsboy said:


> I am also 68kg with gear. My pike is a 140mm, I found with my style of riding I used to have one token. 1 click of lsc, I may pop that up to 2 or 3 for steep technical stuff. And my rebound always ended up at 6 clicks from slow. Maybe I would push it to 7.
> Two years trying everything ended up the same.
> I have moved to a fast upgrade now, which improved things a lot.


Sorry kolja, I forgot to mention that I run my pike at 60-65psi.
I find if I run lower, it just does not feel right, but the psi you are running seems way to much.
I have also stopped worrying about sag, and I just go always with the same psi now. 
I only bottom out if I come of a bid drop with all my weight on the fork, and that's only due to not having any tokens in now. Jumps and 3 foot drops smooth and equal landing is normally just under. Perfect for me really!


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

lubike said:


> is there a substantial difference in performance with the RCT3? From what I have gathered from internet sleuthing, the only difference is that the RCT3 has the two stages of "pedalling platform" and that the open setting is the exact same as the RC. I have a Dual Position and I do use it alot for climbing, so I don't feel the need for the pedaling platform, but is the actual performance better? I could get an RCT3 for $215.


Only difference is the lsc which is handy in controlling brake dive. It is just another adjustment to help get the fork setup right for your haven't owned an RC fork so don't know how they get the lsc balance.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

niva1989 said:


> Only difference is the lsc which is handy in controlling brake dive. It is just another adjustment to help get the fork setup right for your haven't owned an RC fork so don't know how they get the lsc balance.


The dial on the RC forks is LSC.

Sure it doesn't behave the way you want it to out of the box. But it's still controlling LSC (shim stack bypass).


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Dougal said:


> The dial on the RC forks is LSC.
> 
> Sure it doesn't behave the way you want it to out of the box. But it's still controlling LSC (shim stack bypass).


Haha. Thanks for correcting that Dougal. I've never even seen an RC version so wasn't sure on that one. In that case lubike might be better saving some cash and getting the cheaper RC one for now and burn a hole in his wallet at a later date worrying about performance


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

The RC is basically the RCT3 permanently stuck on "open", without the two optional pedalling platforms. The dial on the RC serves the same function as the lsc dial on the RCT3. I'm just curious if the actual performance is better, although, I bet its the same internal system of Low Speed Compression in both.


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

Hey Dougal, so are you saying that the overall lsc performance of the RCT3 is better? I want the best performance I can get, even if i don't use the other pedalling platforms!


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

Oh, that wallet was toast ages ago.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

lubike said:


> Hey Dougal, so are you saying that the overall lsc performance of the RCT3 is better? I want the best performance I can get, even if i don't use the other pedalling platforms!


I haven't had an RCT3 across my workbench to have a good look. On the RC I've had two different experiences. Most forks were harsh and overdamped and were only ridable with the LSC right open. But one was quite soft and was ridable with LSC fully closed.


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## pabloquintana (Mar 17, 2010)

lubike said:


> Okay, looking for some advice. I have a Pike RC Dual Position that is pre-26T5, went to do a service and discovered a bunch of suspension fluid in the damper leg. So glad to have found this thread! I am assuming its the shoddy seal that is causing the problems. I need the bike in the following week so I'm going to see if my LBS can do the refill and bleed as a short term solution but moving forward should I
> 
> A. Order the NSD seal (60.00), full seal kit, (40.00), bleed kit (30.00) and have a go at fixing it, with the possibility that it isn't the seal and it could still be pooched
> 
> ...


Hey lubike. I have a 34T4 Pike and I just bought the Full Service Kit which comes with the new Seal Head. I would try that first and not buy the NSD seal just yet. I know there is a lot of suggestions from very experienced people in this thread one should listen to, nonetheless not every Pike will develop the same problems.


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## H00rst (Apr 14, 2015)

Hello friends
I just want to share my experience with a Pike RC and see what do you guys think about it. 

Short story: I've got a Pike in January 2015 and I rode it for almost a year. I haven't tried another Pike before so that was the first time riding a "serious" fork for me. At first I didn't understand that something wasn't working properly. I knew for sure that:

- the fork was really harsh since the beginning
- I never get full travel, even on bigger hits

I've tried playing with pressures and tokens but at the end of the day the feeling was the same, thus at first I thought "maybe this is how a Pike feels like".

June 2016 the fork broke in the middle of a descent, I felt clearly something was wrong because the damper didn't support anymore. I sent the fork to the service center for a complete revision, it came back in 10 days. I put the fork on the bike, no tokens at first and.. maaaan, the fork felt completely different. I was able to use full travel and no harshness problems again.

At this point I was wondering: was the fork defective since the beginning? Anybody else saw something similar?
Thank you!


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

^^^^^^^ do what he said^^^^^^ 

Do the entire rebuild kit, It will fix your problem!


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

I only suggested the complete damper to lubike because he is in a rush and would be much quicker than attempting a rebuild for the first time. 
I agree best option is to get the latest kit and rebuild. That is what I would do but then I have all the tools and it wouldn't be my first pike rebuild. If lubike lived in Sydney Australia I could get him sorted straight away. I always keep a spare kit. 
The new kit should have a new style seal head which in my opinion should address the issues with the older style. You just need to be careful someone isn't just clearing old stock. Make sure it says new style damper shaft seal head.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

how to be sure that charger bleeding procedure was made properly? If creating vacuum with damper shaft closed there are still some bubbles going out. Im not sure if bleeding kit allows air to go in with big underpressure or air inside damper still going out, but bubbles never stops. After 3rd time bleeding and half an hour of creating vacuum and moving shaft it looks ok. Manual says with locked position you shouldnt move damper shaft more than 2mm. When pushing shaft it slowly moves till end. So IMO thats bull%^&*. Tried to rotate whole damper upsidedown etc and moving shaft. Cannot hear any bubbles inside. Im afraid of mounting damper and then dosmaunting again 4th time... Any experienced user tips?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

nikon255 said:


> how to be sure that charger bleeding procedure was made properly? If creating vacuum with damper shaft closed there are still some bubbles going out. Im not sure if bleeding kit allows air to go in with big underpressure or air inside damper still going out, but bubbles never stops. After 3rd time bleeding and half an hour of creating vacuum and moving shaft it looks ok. Manual says with locked position you shouldnt move damper shaft more than 2mm. When pushing shaft it slowly moves till end. So IMO thats bull%^&*. Tried to rotate whole damper upsidedown etc and moving shaft. Cannot hear any bubbles inside. Im afraid of mounting damper and then dosmaunting again 4th time... Any experienced user tips?


Make sure your lsc is wound up a bit too. It should be pretty much locked out by hand but with enough pressure it will slowly compress. Your bleed sounds good to me. You need to remember it isn't a lockout. Think of it is firm compression.i never worry about the lock out check. I just make sure there isn't any free play.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

"Make sure your lsc is *wound* up a bit too." - could you rewrite it with simple words? 

last 3 bleeds there was no free play, but when rotating the damper and moving shaft pretty fast air sound appears. It looks like air was trapped somewhere. Now it only whistle quietly a lil bit during fast moves, so for me its pretty well done. I will try to get out some more bubbles and mount it again for try 

BTW even with poor bleed damper works correctly in open mode, there was no air sound. When you compress the fork with trail and lock modes it shows easy that inside is still some air.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

nikon255 said:


> "Make sure your lsc is *wound* up a bit too." - could you rewrite it with simple words?
> 
> last 3 bleeds there was no free play, but when rotating the damper and moving shaft pretty fast air sound appears. It looks like air was trapped somewhere. Now it only whistle quietly a lil bit during fast moves, so for me its pretty well done. I will try to get out some more bubbles and mount it again for try
> 
> BTW even with poor bleed damper works correctly in open mode, there was no air sound. When you compress the fork with trail and lock modes it shows easy that inside is still some air.


Low Speed Compression. The smaller adjustment knob. Unless you have an RC version. Then you won't have an LSC adjustment.Well basically anyway.


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

I dont get the "wound up a bit" 

FINALLY BLEED

just need 30min of creating vacum. After bleeding rotate damper and fastly move shaft. If theres no air sound bleeding is ok


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

nikon255 said:


> I dont get the "wound up a bit"
> 
> Btw damoer is ok, bleed peoperly. Just need if 30min if creating vacuum


Haha. I'm from Australia and I forget how our language differs sometimes. Wound up means turned up or increased.


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

Thats what I ended up doing, service kit with the bleed thingie and some oil. Waiting for it to arrive and I'll have a go!


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

niva1989 said:


> Haha. I'm from Australia and I forget how our language differs sometimes. Wound up means turned up or increased.


Yeah, moreover english is not my mother language 



lubike said:


> Thats what I ended up doing, service kit with the bleed thingie and some oil. Waiting for it to arrive and I'll have a go!


prepare your fingers bro!


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

one hard question with some explanation 

Pike got 3 setups of rebound shimstack. Stock is set in the medium shimstack. After hard drop I feel like rapid recovery wants me to kick off. If I change shimstack of rebound to hard will it affect to rapid recovery? I mean will it slow it down?


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## Tommybees (Dec 25, 2014)

The best way to decide is to check where you have set your rebound currently. Based on your experience, it sounds like you want to close off or increase your rebound damping first and see how that responds to the 'bucking feeling'. In the end, the mod is only appropriate if your best rebound setting is at the edges (full open or full close). Also, don't forget that the # of tokens affects this as well; more tokens usually requires more rebound damping. 

From the manual:

If your rebound setting is one or two clicks from open, we recommend changing to a soft tune on the rebound. If your rebound setting is one or two clicks from closed, we recommend changing to a firm tune on the rebound.


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## wheatgerm (Jan 30, 2006)

The updated service kit includes a new bladder. Is replacing the bladder necessary? I cannot find instructions on how to replace it and thus I wonder if its really necessary.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

wheatgerm said:


> The updated service kit includes a new bladder. Is replacing the bladder necessary? I cannot find instructions on how to replace it and thus I wonder if its really necessary.


You should replace it. Instructions are in the full service manual. It's not that hard. Just follow instructions to the letter.


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## wheatgerm (Jan 30, 2006)

niva1989 said:


> You should replace it. Instructions are in the full service manual. It's not that hard. Just follow instructions to the letter.


I found the instructions in the old manual. 
https://www.canyon.com/download/manuals/PIKE_RCT3_Solo_Air.pdf

The new manual doesn't include this.
https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.netdna-ssl.com/cdn/farfuture/x7W1QSXggty6eyvRkZB7p4OYIM3sApQ67nWHhPhdduo/mtime:1471279267/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen_0000000004461_rev_e_2014-2017_pike_service_manual_english.pdf

Looks simple enough. Thanks.


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## lubike (Mar 5, 2008)

nikon255 said:


> Yeah, moreover english is not my mother language
> 
> prepare your fingers bro!


Ha! I think I am just going to replace the seal head, and save the full service for another year or two. its a 2014 that I got in 2015, so its only had two summers on it.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

NSD update:

1700km of riding on the NSD seal head unit that I replaced my original design (non-skf) OEM seal head with.
My damper will only work well for about 3-4 rides after a bleed before the lockout stops working and the damping performance diminishes. Dropping the lowers reveals pinkish fluid in the oil bath on the damper side and a damper ingested with air.

The damper will take a good bleed in the work-stand removed from the fork, but even cycling by hand you can see a small oil film being left behind on the shaft. My guess is after 3-4 rides enough oil leaks out to cause a change in damping performance.

I'm thinking my next step is to replace the NSD unit with the updated SKF seal head and see how that holds a bleed. If that doesn't work it might be time to sell the fork and look at a Yari with a solid-well proven Motion Control Damper. The MoCo is simpler to maintain, and while may not have the same performance as the Charger, will have less complicated service (open bath) and hopefully more consistent damping performance.
From what I have read the new Motion Control damper in the Yari doesn't suck.

I can't see any other sources of leaks in the damper. The bladder looks fine, and the damper will hold a bleed in the workstand with the lockout being rock solid. I suspect chassis flex in the fork during hard riding is when the damper shaft leaks or bypasses.

The NSD was a great solution for 1500km or so of riding before I started to develop issues, but I hope the SKF unit will end up being a better sealed unit.


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## Techspec360 (Jun 21, 2011)

JoshM said:


> NSD update:
> 
> 1700km of riding on the NSD seal head unit that I replaced my original design (non-skf) OEM seal head with.
> My damper will only work well for about 3-4 rides after a bleed before the lockout stops working and the damping performance diminishes. Dropping the lowers reveals pinkish fluid in the oil bath on the damper side and a damper ingested with air.
> ...


Yep NSD seal head doesn't fix the problem. I've had the same results as you with less trouble free miles. New SKF seal head and complete damper rebuild proved more long term than any other solution, however it does not stay that way. Open bath has been the only remedy.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

JoshM said:


> I'm thinking my next step is to replace the NSD unit with the updated SKF seal head and see how that holds a bleed. If that doesn't work it might be time to sell the fork and look at a Yari with a solid-well proven Motion Control Damper. The MoCo is simpler to maintain, and while may not have the same performance as the Charger, will have less complicated service (open bath) and hopefully more consistent damping performance.
> From what I have read the new Motion Control damper in the Yari doesn't suck.


Recommend the Avalanche cartridge. Not super cheap, but you never have to worry about a bladder again, you get far better LSC support to prevent diving and keep the chassis stable, anti-bottoming cone can be added to allow you to run it softer, oil changes are a breeze, and with the popularity of the pike and yari you can probably get some real good mileage out of it, as in even if you have an older chassis, chassis should be plentiful and forward-compatible for some time.

My experience with the pike was alright, but after a while it was doing what you mentioned, I just didn't want to deal with that on the lyrik that came with my new bike, so I went straight to the cartridge. Don't regret it one bit.

Rockshox Lyrik and Yari


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

I've definitely looked into the Avalanche upgrade, but am really not sure if I am aggressive/fast enough rider to benefit from the upgrade at the cost they want.
$400 USD ends up closer to $550 Canadian by the time you add the exchange.

My Pike is already two seasons old, so I am not sure if I want to put that kind of money into it, or just sell it and buy a brand new Yari. It's also started to develop a CSU creak. I was really happy with the performance of my previous fork before the Pike which was a Revelation RLT with a MoCo DNA damper. It had great damping, was easy to service and was very consistent feeling.


----------



## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I too am looking into the Yari route to get rid of bladder. Mine has been flawless, but approaching 200 hours on my 29er. Hmmmm. Curious how it feels, vs PIKE.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

hoolie said:


> I too am looking into the Yari route to get rid of bladder. Mine has been flawless, but approaching 200 hours on my 29er. Hmmmm. Curious how it feels, vs PIKE.


Rockshox claims the Motion Control IS shim stack was tuned to replicate the feel of the Charger Damper on the compression circuit. 
A Yari will be a bit heavier than the Pike, but most likely a little bit stiffer as it shares the same CSU and lowers as the Lyrik.

The Charger is the better damper when working correctly, but since none of us seem to be able to keep oil in the things when riding, they end up being maintenance heavy and unreliable. If I only had to service the damper once a year I would be much happier. A little drop in performance is worth it to me if the fork proves to be more reliable. In my experience the MoCo damper was much easier to maintain vs the Charger.

Since I ride with my fork in the Open position for 95% of my riding there are lots of features of the RCT3 damper I don't use/need. The only reason I ever use the lockout is to test for air in my damper.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Just wondering if the yari damper would drop into the pike? I would love an avalanche upgrade but I just can't spend the cash. At least the MC damper would be cheaper and way less hassle.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

JoshM said:


> NSD update:
> 
> 1700km of riding on the NSD seal head unit that I replaced my original design (non-skf) OEM seal head with.
> My damper will only work well for about 3-4 rides after a bleed before the lockout stops working and the damping performance diminishes. Dropping the lowers reveals pinkish fluid in the oil bath on the damper side and a damper ingested with air.
> ...


Hey Josh,

I don't have that many km on my NSD sealhead but still working well. I'd just replace the sealhead and ride another 1700km. I am in Australia so the NSD sealhead are a bit cheaper for me though. After 1700km it is probably due for some sort of service anyway. From memory you do your own rebuilds so it won't cost a fortune.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

bigkat273 said:


> Just wondering if the yari damper would drop into the pike? I would love an avalanche upgrade but I just can't spend the cash. At least the MC damper would be cheaper and way less hassle.


Won't fit as threads are different and there is no machining for the lower seal head or retaining ring in the stanchion.


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## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm rebuilding the damper on a 2014 26inch Pike. I changed out to the revised cartridgetube and rebound seal head. When I threaded the coupler on to the new damper tube there still a little bit of threads exposed. I don't want to over torque the coupler. ls this OK?









Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

mobilenemo said:


> I'm rebuilding the damper on a 2014 26inch Pike. I changed out to the revised cartridgetube and rebound seal head. When I threaded the coupler on to the new damper tube there still a little bit of threads exposed. I don't want to over torque the coupler. ls this OK?
> 
> View attachment 1096074
> 
> ...


That's fine.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

JoshM said:


> NSD update:
> 
> 1700km of riding on the NSD seal head unit that I replaced my original design (non-skf) OEM seal head with.
> My damper will only work well for about 3-4 rides after a bleed before the lockout stops working and the damping performance diminishes. Dropping the lowers reveals pinkish fluid in the oil bath on the damper side and a damper ingested with air.
> ...


If you think youve worn it out, I believe I have a couple more NSD rebuild kits in a drawer somewhere. NSD also sells them directly. PM me if you want one, I'll quote u. Im keeping the other 

If the fork has more miles than the 1500, over two years old, you may wanna skip the NSD damper, look into a full service kit and rebuild the entire damper. Its probably due.

I recommend a full service of the fork, complete tear down, for heavy mileage riders every two years, and a basic service and inspection in between. Thats pretty conservative. RS recommends a basic service and seal change every 50 hours and change fluids/inspect damper at 100.

Its frikking absurd how hard some of my clients ride these days. Just to tease them, I tellem Im surprised the bike even lasted that one ride 

Last thing, if you can deal with the weight, get an Marzocchi 55. Those things last forever


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

mobilenemo said:


> I'm rebuilding the damper on a 2014 26inch Pike. I changed out to the revised cartridgetube and rebound seal head. When I threaded the coupler on to the new damper tube there still a little bit of threads exposed. I don't want to over torque the coupler. ls this OK?
> 
> View attachment 1096074
> 
> ...


I recall when reading about the revisions to the sealhead of the Pike, that it was stated the new sealhead was not compatible with the 26" pike. Details why where not really discussed. Perhaps this is it? Let us know how it goes over the long-term.

Thanks


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

bing! said:


> If you think youve worn it out, I believe I have a couple more NSD rebuild kits in a drawer somewhere. NSD also sells them directly. PM me if you want one, I'll quote u. Im keeping the other
> 
> If the fork has more miles than the 1500, over two years old, you may wanna skip the NSD damper, look into a full service kit and rebuild the entire damper. Its probably due.
> 
> ...


I've got a full rebuild kit coming for the fork (P/N: 11.4018.027.003)
It only cost me $50 shipped off ebay, so it's worth a shot.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

JoshM said:


> I've got a full rebuild kit coming for the fork (P/N: 11.4018.027.003)
> It only cost me $50 shipped off ebay, so it's worth a shot.


Nice. Dont give up on it yet.

If cars run a certain number or miles before major maintenance, reduce that by a factor of 10 for motorcycle (guesstimate), then another 10 for MTBs.

(Not you) People are still surprised when their suspension pivots give out, usually on the 3rd year for high mileage folks.

These bikes are complex and have about 1000+ individual parts (guesstimate) and are used to a high degree of bashing. They require constant inspection and maintenance.


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## mobilenemo (Jun 16, 2009)

Per the spare parts catalog, there's a revised damper tube that allows the 26inch pikes to work with the upgraded seal head. I noticed the new seal head is longer than the old, the revised damper tube could be shorter to accomodate? I put the fork back together before comparing the old vs revised.

From the spare parts catalog:



> IMPORTANT: When servicing 26" variants of Pike and moving to the new, upgraded seal head (contained in all Full Service Kits) for the first time, you must change the damper tube to 11.4018.063.000. The new damper
> tube will have a turned indicator mark on the lower section of the damper tube, see the Pike Service Manual for details. If your damper tube does not have this indicator mark, you must purchase the new damper tube to
> use the new, upgraded seal head.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

mobilenemo said:


> Per the spare parts catalog, there's a revised damper tube that allows the 26inch pikes to work with the upgraded seal head. I noticed the new seal head is longer than the old, the revised damper tube could be shorter to accomodate? I put the fork back together before comparing the old vs revised.
> 
> From the spare parts catalog:


Ahh, that is great info to know!


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

mobilenemo said:


> I'm rebuilding the damper on a 2014 26inch Pike. I changed out to the revised cartridgetube and rebound seal head. When I threaded the coupler on to the new damper tube there still a little bit of threads exposed. I don't want to over torque the coupler. ls this OK?
> 
> View attachment 1096074
> 
> ...


I remember reading something about machining a small amount off the end of the tube but you think I can find that post now...
It was only a small amount like 3mm or something.


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

I didn't want to start a new thread, so will try my question here. Let me know if I should post in a better place....

I just had a new Pike RCT3 dual position 160/130 installed, but I don't completely understand the adjustments. We set sag at 30%. I did a short ride before it got dark, but not enough time to really start exploring settings.

When riding in 160 in the open damper mode, if I encounter fork dive, should I start with adjusting the dampening on LSC or start with adding bottomless tokens to the air side?

The fork did not come with any tokens installed, but can take up to 4. The LBS forgot to order them as I asked, but should be able to get some soon. 

Sorry for the basic question, but have to start learning somewhere...


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## two-one (Aug 7, 2008)

russinthecascades said:


> When riding in 160 in the open damper mode, if I encounter fork dive, should I start with adjusting the dampening on LSC or start with adding bottomless tokens to the air side?


Dial in the LSC knob to prevent brake dive. Should you bottom out too much, then you can add tokens.
30% is a large amount of sag... I ride with 25%, and I wish I could ride with 20%, but then I cant use all of my travel


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

LSC first as the tokens are meant more for controlling the end of the stroke. If the LSC isn't working for you then perhaps some more air and closer to 25% sag.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

What they said^^^


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## kolja (May 5, 2016)

I know his has already been discussed, but if someone could clarify that would be awesome. The fork is a 160mm DPA rct3 pike 2015 and when you life the handlebars you can feel a slight clunk/knock. Is this normal? Or is there something I can do to fix this. The fork has also been recently serviced with the full kit. 

Thanks


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

kolja said:


> I know his has already been discussed, but if someone could clarify that would be awesome. The fork is a 160mm DPA rct3 pike 2015 and when you life the handlebars you can feel a slight clunk/knock. Is this normal? Or is there something I can do to fix this. The fork has also been recently serviced with the full kit.
> 
> Thanks


Usually it's just being able to feel the fork positive/negative chambers equalize. It's just the quad-ring seal on the main air piston passing over a dimple to allow air to pass the seal and keep the chambers equal.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Both my Lyrik and my Pike have the same annoying top out "clunk". Its caused by the top out bumper making contact with the seal head when the fork tops out. The rubber compound used for the top out bumper is fairly hard so you get a noticeable knock when they make contact. I recently serviced my Lyrik and swapped the top out bumper for a grommet I bought at the hardware store which is slightly shorter, then used a couple of foam rings from a reverb seatpost to take up the remaining space. now when the fork tops out it's against the foam rings. No more annoying top out clunk! No problem with the positive and negative chambers equalizing, fork works and feels great so at this point I am planning to do the same mod on my pike too. Hopefully it holds up ok over time, curious to see how the foam rings look after a couple of months, but for now I am pleased with the results.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

Has anyone tried going to a heavier weight oil in the damper? I see a lot of lighter guys going with a bit lower viscosity, but am wondering what would happen changing from the Rockshox 3wt. To something like a belray 5wt fork oil.
Looks like cSt of Rockshox 3wt is 13.9 vs 18.1 for BelRay 5wt.
Any advice? Being 230lbs ready to ride I am wondering how the fork would react.


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## kneecap (Dec 20, 2003)

that would probably slow down the compression & rebound somewhat, but I'd be concerned that might be a strain on the bladder?


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

My latest issue with the Charger is the lack of range of adjustment. I'm not happy with the range on the LSC in Open. I've got a FAST upgrade on the way to get rid of the 3-position/LSC set-up and go to 22 clicks of both LSC and HSC. I serviced my Charger after 8 months, added the new seal head and it still had LSC that was too light. And it pumps up when in full-firm LSC.

I talked to RockShox about it and they sent me a brand new damper and it felt exactly the same. I'm hoping for a better tuning outcome with less dive, primarily. Small bump is fine, it feels great deeper in the travel at bike parks and big-mountain descents but too much dive.

mk


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

The upgraded service kit was in my mailbox after work so I decided to dive back into the fork. My kit included the new SKF dust wipers and damper seal head.

The SKF looked to have 3 separate seal lips. One spring energized, and the other two just plain lip seals behind that. My old bladder looked to be in good shape, and I didn't see any other evidence of leaks.

I used the entire kit, and probably the toughest part was getting the small/fat O-ring into the new air-side seal head or the snapring that holds compression cam in place. 

Props to Rockshox for making spare parts easily accessible and having great instructions available online. 

My used NSD seal head looks fine visually, I'm guessing replacing the o-ring inside and the wiper seal would make it functional again.


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## mikericci (Oct 29, 2013)

What snap ring pliers did you use? I'm having trouble getting the snap rings in/out with the generic ones sold at the auto shops.


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## JoshM (Apr 3, 2010)

I used a set from Gray tools. To get the damper apart I used the smallest pair with the angled tips.
http://http://www.graytools.com/toolcatalogue/?page=product&name=12%20Pieces%20Plier%20Set%20%2D%20Int%2FExt%20With%20Fixed%20Tips&itemNo=1229&s_filter=&recPage=9&startRow=1&pageNum=1


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## Rey Recinto (Mar 15, 2005)

Can you guys please tell me the year this Pike was produced to know if this is with the faulty charger damper batch? SN-02T42383733


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## kolja (May 5, 2016)

The number after the T is the year of production, so 2014. I'm not sure how to read anything else sorry. Maybe try calling SRAM.


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## Rey Recinto (Mar 15, 2005)

thanks bro..


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

Rey Recinto said:


> Can you guys please tell me the year this Pike was produced to know if this is with the faulty charger damper batch? SN-02T42383733


kolja already told you the year. Earlier in this thread someone said the first two digit are the week of manufacturing. So second week of 2014.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Rey Recinto said:


> Can you guys please tell me the year this Pike was produced to know if this is with the faulty charger damper batch? SN-02T42383733


It's in the service manual which you can download from RS website. Your fork was built in the second week of 2014. The rest is just a serial number. Anything prior to week 26 2015 has the old style damper shaft sealhead. Looks like your has the old sealhead unless someone has upgraded it.


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## texas_dog (Nov 15, 2016)

So I have a new problem that I don't see mentioned in here.

About a month ago, I bought a bike off of CL with a RockShox Pike RCT3 140mm (lowered to 120mm) suspension fork on it. I rode it around for a little bit and noticed the damper really wasn't making a difference between locked, pedal, and unlocked. I decided to go through and do a full service on the fork (replace seals, bleed damper, fluid change, everything). I didn't to a full rebuild of the damper because the manual I had didn't even discuss it. I now know the older manual had instructions for it.

I put the fork back on the bike and the problem persists. No noticeable difference between adjustments of low speed adjust or lock/unlock position. Also, the fork has developed a sucking/squishing noise that wasn't there before the service, but according to what I read here that could be normal. After consulting reddit, I was inquired about the rebound damper. After adjusting the rebound adjuster knob all the way both ways, there is only a slight difference in rebound speed, but the sucking/squising sound dissapears when adjusted to what I believe is the low setting (all the way clockwise).

From all that I've read here I have pretty much given up on the damper on the Pike, but the rebound damper is something that I probably shouldn't live without. Its nearing time to just bring it to the mechanic, but I thought I would make a last effort here.

Here is the reddit thread I referenced above:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/bikewrench/comments/5bui9x


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

texas_dog said:


> So I have a new problem that I don't see mentioned in here.
> 
> About a month ago, I bought a bike off of CL with a RockShox Pike RCT3 140mm (lowered to 120mm) suspension fork on it. I rode it around for a little bit and noticed the damper really wasn't making a difference between locked, pedal, and unlocked. I decided to go through and do a full service on the fork (replace seals, bleed damper, fluid change, everything). I didn't to a full rebuild of the damper because the manual I had didn't even discuss it. I now know the older manual had instructions for it.
> 
> ...


Never give up on the Pike it's an awesome fork with some issues that are very simple to rectify. It sounds like you have air in the damper probably due to the damper shaft sealhead leaking if it is an older fork. You will need to rebuild the damper with a new upgraded sealhead which you can find in the latest rebuild kits. If your not confident then get someone to fix it that knows what they are doing. Tell them you want the latest version sealhead installed when it is rebuilt. If they stare at you blankly then don't let them touch your fork. A good mechanic will be all over the common issues with the Pike. If you rebuilt the rest of the fork yourself then the damper will be doable for you with the right tools.


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## texas_dog (Nov 15, 2016)

niva1989 said:


> Never give up on the Pike it's an awesome fork with some issues that are very simple to rectify. It sounds like you have air in the damper probably due to the damper shaft sealhead leaking if it is an older fork. You will need to rebuild the damper with a new upgraded sealhead which you can find in the latest rebuild kits. If your not confident then get someone to fix it that knows what they are doing. Tell them you want the latest version sealhead installed when it is rebuilt. If they stare at you blankly then don't let them touch your fork. A good mechanic will be all over the common issues with the Pike. If you rebuilt the rest of the fork yourself then the damper will be doable for you with the right tools.


When I did the rebuild I replaced the sealhead with the one that came in the rebuild kit. Step 10 on page 27 of the manual.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...v_e_2014-2017_pike_service_manual_english.pdf


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## nikon255 (Dec 27, 2015)

charger bleeding is pain in the ass. I did it 3 times before it was really bled. Take it out, bleed. Shake it, rotate it and move the shaft. If it squirt, do bleed again. My fingers was killed after I done it. Good luck


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## texas_dog (Nov 15, 2016)

I ended up bringing it by my mechanic to get a new chain and while I was there talked with him about the problem. He sent me to another mechanic in town that apparently worked for Rockshox for like 5 or so years. Dude knew his stuff and diagnosed my problem instantly. Basically it just takes an experienced hand to do a full service. Something about setting the correct backpressure... He rattled off a few things that were wrong very quickly and I'll be honest in that I understood half of them. He knew exactly what I was talking about with that seal and that aparently isn't the problem, it's just my inexperience. Having to pay for a full service again (he said he would work with me a little bit because I already replaced most all the seals), but at least I know it will be 100% functional again. Luckily I got a good enough deal on the bike that I should only be out like $100-$200 after my purchase price and service when I do a planned upgrade next year. 

Lessoned learned, for most stuff a mechanic does you can do yourself, but when it comes to stuff most mechanics don't know about or ship off, find an expert.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

texas_dog said:


> I ended up bringing it by my mechanic to get a new chain and while I was there talked with him about the problem. He sent me to another mechanic in town that apparently worked for Rockshox for like 5 or so years. Dude knew his stuff and diagnosed my problem instantly. Basically it just takes an experienced hand to do a full service. Something about setting the correct backpressure... He rattled off a few things that were wrong very quickly and I'll be honest in that I understood half of them. He knew exactly what I was talking about with that seal and that aparently isn't the problem, it's just my inexperience. Having to pay for a full service again (he said he would work with me a little bit because I already replaced most all the seals), but at least I know it will be 100% functional again. Luckily I got a good enough deal on the bike that I should only be out like $100-$200 after my purchase price and service when I do a planned upgrade next year.
> 
> Lessoned learned, for most stuff a mechanic does you can do yourself, but when it comes to stuff most mechanics don't know about or ship off, find an expert.


I still think your problem was air trapped in the damper like Nikon said. Sometimes it takes a s few bleeds to get all of the air out. I get it done right first time these days but I have a fair few bleeds under my belt now. 
Setting correct back pressure doesn't sound right to me. It's not that complicated, just need to double check yourself at a couple of stages during the rebuild. The manual is pretty thorough. I'm sure if you gave the damper another bleed you would have got it sorted yourself. Glad to hear it is up and running again.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

mobilenemo said:


> Per the spare parts catalog, there's a revised damper tube that allows the 26inch pikes to work with the upgraded seal head. I noticed the new seal head is longer than the old, the revised damper tube could be shorter to accomodate? I put the fork back together before comparing the old vs revised.
> 
> From the spare parts catalog:


Bumping this thread for info on the 26er Pike.

Does anyone know if there are any detrimental effects if you upgrade the seal head on an older (pre 26T5) model but don't replace the damper tube with the one that has a turned indicator mark?

Or are the threads not even the same size and pitch?


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## terrible (Jun 25, 2007)

The inside of the lowers will contact the damper if you use the new seal on an old cartridge.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

OK, thanks.

Good to know.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

net wurker said:


> Bumping this thread for info on the 26er Pike.
> 
> Does anyone know if there are any detrimental effects if you upgrade the seal head on an older (pre 26T5) model but don't replace the damper tube with the one that has a turned indicator mark?
> 
> Or are the threads not even the same size and pitch?


I remember someone mentioning that it will fit with some modifications. It was earlier in this thread or in the general Pike thread somewhere. I think it could have been Rick Draper as he is an expert on this stuff.


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## Rick Draper (Dec 1, 2009)

niva1989 said:


> I remember someone mentioning that it will fit with some modifications. It was earlier in this thread or in the general Pike thread somewhere. I think it could have been Rick Draper as he is an expert on this stuff.


Ha ha not sure I'd class myself as a expert!

Someone mentioned you could turn the damper tube down to fit the new seal head but the one I saw this was not possible without adding more threads inside the damper tube.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

The replacement damper tube is like 25 bux. Not too bad.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rick Draper said:


> Ha ha not sure I'd class myself as a expert!
> 
> Someone mentioned you could turn the damper tube down to fit the new seal head but the one I saw this was not possible without adding more threads inside the damper tube.


What is the fitment issue? 
I have a 26" pike here and new seal-heads. But I've not had to fit it.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

I believe the newer seal head is a tad longer than the original. It extends the damper down a few millimeters.

Not an issue on 27.5 or 29, but apparently causes a bottom out issue on 26.

Bottom of page 76 talks about it here.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...lt/files/techdocs/2017_rockshox_spc_rev_b.pdf


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

net wurker said:


> I believe the newer seal head is a tad longer than the original. It extends the damper down a few millimeters.
> 
> Not an issue on 27.5 or 29, but apparently causes a bottom out issue on 26.


Thanks. That'll be easy to check next time I have one apart.


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

Rick Draper said:


> Ha ha not sure I'd class myself as a expert!
> 
> Someone mentioned you could turn the damper tube down to fit the new seal head but the one I saw this was not possible without adding more threads inside the damper tube.


Well you have more experience than most on here. I just try and help where I can. I do remember someone talking about machining a set measurement off the seal head but as I don't have a 26"Pike I didn't give it much thought. Sometimes these things aren't worth messing with and if there is a relatively cheap part to do it properly then I would recommend going down that path. Some people go to great lengths to save 10 or 20 dollars.


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

So how often do you need to bleed the Charger damper? I'm comfortable taking off lowers and replacing oil, but not so sure about this. What else needs to be done regularly? Thinking of buying a new 2017 Pike RCT3 29, want to know what I'm getting into.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Hi All,

First off, I just read through this whole thread. Thanks to all who have contributed, lots of good information here.

I just received a new old stock Pike 29 DPA. It's a 2015, and serial # indicates that it's too early to have received the seal head upgrade.

So, I ordered the upgraded kit.

My question is - how much is worth replacing right away? I have not yet used the fork (waiting on hub adapter).

I've decided that I will upgrade the seal head right away, but is it worth using the new SKF seals, or should I just wait until they need to be replaced?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

cackalacky said:


> So how often do you need to bleed the Charger damper? I'm comfortable taking off lowers and replacing oil, but not so sure about this. What else needs to be done regularly? Thinking of buying a new 2017 Pike RCT3 29, want to know what I'm getting into.


You need to bleed the damper if there was a leak, if the oil gets foamed or if you change the oil.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

Personally, I didn't notice any real difference with the SKF seals. I noticed a big difference with the new updated charger dampter though.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Structure said:


> Personally, I didn't notice any real difference with the SKF seals. I noticed a big difference with the new updated charger dampter though.


Interesting. Was the difference between new <2015 and new >2015 seals, or compared to old seals that already started leaking?


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## Space Robot (Sep 13, 2008)

Dougal said:


> You need to bleed the damper if there was a leak, if the oil gets foamed or if you change the oil.


Thank you! I suppose I could have download the manual first, checking it out now.


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## digifun (Jul 17, 2006)

i know this has been discussed around the web regarding stucked down pike and everyone seems to have different suggestions. 
i just did the lowers and clean regrease the air spring. before tackling this job, the fork was stucked on the 20% sag so i thought a quick lower service and air spring tear down would solve my issues but, it didn't 
so how do i fix this again? do i just stick a plastic ties around the seal while it's inflated at my recommended PSI? or higher ?


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## niva1989 (May 8, 2014)

digifun said:


> i know this has been discussed around the web regarding stucked down pike and everyone seems to have different suggestions.
> i just did the lowers and clean regrease the air spring. before tackling this job, the fork was stucked on the 20% sag so i thought a quick lower service and air spring tear down would solve my issues but, it didn't
> so how do i fix this again? do i just stick a plastic ties around the seal while it's inflated at my recommended PSI? or higher ?


If a vacuum in the lowers is the issue then a cable ties pushed down between the deal and staunchion will equalise the air pressure in the lowers and the fork should extend it. You can avoid this by making sure the air and damper shafts are fully extended before you put the lowers back on.
I find it unlikely that this is the cause of your problem. I think it is something to do with your air spring and the 2 air chambers not equalising. 
Also an obvious thing but make sure you are reading sag off the correct indicator on the staunchion.


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## Structure (Dec 29, 2003)

noot said:


> Interesting. Was the difference between new <2015 and new >2015 seals, or compared to old seals that already started leaking?


So I did a lowers only service and replaced the seals with SKF green. The fork felt a little better for a few rides but then was back to pogoing. Eventually got around to rebuilding the damper with the new updated head. Left the SKF seals in because they were still fairly new. Fork was excellent after this. Seals and rebuild kit were all from early 2016 or maybe late 2015? I have no complaints about the seals, just saying the priority for an older fork is to get the internals updated.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

Anyone know when the Charger 2 damper will be available? I plan on retrofitting my Pike with it.


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## StumpyElite2010 (Feb 3, 2011)

Looks like it is available now.
Any information about retrofitting an older pike with it ?


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## contra1970 (Mar 27, 2012)

HELP PLEASE, big thanks in advance

Just about to purchase 2015/2016 Pikes for good price for my partner. I'm just wondering if they would be MY16 and if they would have the bladder issue of early Pikes or would have the better bladder? Thanks


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

contra1970 said:


> HELP PLEASE, big thanks in advance
> 
> Just about to purchase 2015/2016 Pikes for good price for my partner. I'm just wondering if they would be MY16 and if they would have the bladder issue of early Pikes or would have the better bladder? Thanks


All Charger 1 Pike bladders are the same. Charger 2 they changed shape and made them not obtainable as a spare.


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