# Is ANY modern new geometry bike, even with the increased frame weight more enjoyable than the best 2016 mtb?



## mtnbikerva1 (Feb 4, 2008)

Is even a mediocre bike of today far better than a 2016 trek remedy 9.8 29r. I have upgraded all but the shock and handlebar. I also ride in the midatlantic area so bottom bracket height has a impact here. Thank you for your wisdom.


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## Riled (May 1, 2012)

It’s so much about personal experience, only you can tell. Do whatever it takes to ride some modern bikes, either through friends or LBS demos. Manufacturer Demo days may start up soon too. Try out both wheel sizes. Also try different bike sizes if you’re anywhere close to in-between recommended sizes (newer geo is more forgiving for bike to rider size).

My experience is that new geo is much more safe and stable, which can honestly dampen some of the fun factor just because you have to push speeds higher to be “on the edge.” Sometimes a trail won’t support that speed or it just doesn’t feel as fast because of the increased stability.


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## Chargercruz (Nov 24, 2020)

I have had a number of great bikes - Kona Explosif with Projrct 2’s, Rocky Mountain ETSX 50, RM Thunderbolt. Each bike got progressively better (and slacker) over this 30 yr time span. I rode Razor’s Edge in AB on my Thunderbolt- an absolute epic double black diamond trail down crazy rock walls with massive drops - I could not believe what that 27.5 bike could do. Fast forward to my 50th and my new bike - Santa Cruz Hightower Carbon 29er. The angles are diifferent ie. mega slack but with steep seat tube angle, the bike is huge, the frame is almost geometric with oversized tubes and beautiful details abd a whole host of new technology including a 1X Sram eagle group set. The net result is that the things I would body English over, the rock gardens and I would pick a line through, the speed at which I travel and the suppleness of the suspension platform make me a more efficient rider - one willing to take risks where I had walked away from 4 yrs ago when the danger element became too much. I only speak for myself but it is safe to say the newest iteration of frame design equates to a massive increase in capability and a greater enjoyment of riding. With skill on an old bike there is little that can not be done - with a new bike it is handed to you as a gift. You can play the lines, choose the jumps, pull the air and send it at a level way higher than that even closely possible with ‘old’ technology. IMO (as an old git 50+) new bikes make new riders out of veterans, leading to a longer envelope to enjoy this wonderful sport. Job done!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Stoopid is stoopid does

back to my sabbatical....


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Pretty broad question. I'd say a bike of similar price point and quality today is better than a 5 year old bike. But they're not all the same, you still have to find one that suites your riding style and fits well etc.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

You need to ride some of the bikes and really find out for yourself and the difference on the trails you ride. If you have already your bike to "modern" components, you might not feel much of a difference.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Vespasianus said:


> You need to ride some of the bikes and really find out for yourself and the difference on the trails you ride. If you have already your bike to "modern" components, you might not feel much of a difference.


^ agreed, with this type of question the correct answer is "go ride some bikes and determine if it's that much better TO YOU"


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## Offthepath (Dec 29, 2020)

I got back into riding 3 years ago on a 2016 Remedy 9 29in. 

Good bike, but I always saw those lines/features I knew I should be able to ride, but never felt comfortable committing. 

After breaking the chain stay and rocker, I dumped the bike and got a new stumperjumper Evo. 

Amazing what I can ride now. It has truly bumped up my riding by leaps and bounds. The low BB took some getting use to, and I still pedal strike a lot, but that was a small price to pay.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

You know it's good _marketing_ when people constantly question their perfectly fine 5 year old bikes. 🤣🤣🤣


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## Chargercruz (Nov 24, 2020)

GKelley said:


> You know it's good _marketing_ when people constantly question their perfectly fine 5 year old bikes. 🤣🤣🤣


The marketing is key to persuading customers to spend loads of dosh on a new whip - imho detrimental to the sport as the new tech is only available to those willing to make the investment. That said, one ride on a new bike and you start to understand - and some companies like Santa Cruz do lifetime warranty on frames and bearings - even for carbon frames.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

mtnbikerva1 said:


> Is even a mediocre bike of today far better than a 2016 trek remedy 9.8 29r.


Not necessarily. 
All depends what you mean by 'better'.


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## Anchorless (May 15, 2008)

Yes, I think so if your riding is more focused on downhill, flow trails, or tech features. 

If you're mostly on smooth cross country trails and enjoy to climb, I don't think newer bikes have that much of an advantage (other than the reliability of the dropper posts, better mech, etc.).


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Anchorless said:


> Yes, I think so if your riding is more focused on downhill, flow trails, or tech features.
> 
> If you're mostly on smooth cross country trails and enjoy to climb, I don't think newer bikes have that much of an advantage (other than the reliability of the dropper posts, better mech, etc.).


I recently got my first new bike in 5 years or so.
"Modern geometry" and my first 29er.
It's fine when it's up to speed on more open terrain, but in slow tight tech, I find it unwieldy.


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## OldMike (Apr 30, 2020)

slapheadmofo said:


> I recently got my first new bike in 5 years or so.
> "Modern geometry" and my first 29er.
> It's fine when it's up to speed on more open terrain, but in slow tight tech, I find it unwieldy.


What bike do you have and what did you come from?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

OldMike said:


> What bike do you have and what did you come from?


I've come from a shitload of different bikes over many years.
My previous latest primary trail bike was a 100/120 27.5+ Haro Shift, but I've got a shed full of 26er MTBs and other bikes of many different styles and vintages.

New bike is a Process 134.
Riding is New England singletrack, so tight, twisty, with plenty of of rocks and roots and ups-n-downs.
Flowy downhill riding is pretty much limited to bike parks around here, not something you really encounter 'in the wild'.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

mtnbikerva1 said:


> Is even a mediocre bike of today far better than a 2016 trek remedy 9.8 29r. I have upgraded all but the shock and handlebar. I also ride in the midatlantic area so bottom bracket height has a impact here. Thank you for your wisdom.


This is just my opinion but (within reason) I can hop on any bike and ride on most any average trails and enjoy the experience. There are edge cases where riding isn't fun, say my mid 90's rim braked hard tail wouldn't be fun at Wind Rock. But a good bike from 5 years ago is certainly more than capable of handling most anything I throw at it. Humans are pretty adaptable animals and you soon adapt to whatever you ride on. Would I be faster on a modern geometry bike? Yeah, but we are talking percentage points here not orders of magnitude. 15-20 seconds on a 5 minute segment. Is it more enjoyable going faster? In the moment they mostly feel the same maybe afterwards you get a sense of accomplishment when looking at your Strava segments.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, a mediocre 2021 bike is better than your bike. Five years is a long time in suspension technology.


I don't buy that. How much has coil suspension changed in twenty years? I have a fifteen year old bike with a 67 degree head angle. I've got a 23 year old bike that I can ride on 80% of trails. 
The biggest difference with new bikes for me is often weight (though this has crept back up) and simply room on the bike. The 1998 bike has a comically short reach, but it is a "DH" bike. 
And most of my old bikes have interrupted and slack seat tubes which aren't as comfortable as modern angles.

Often it depends what people are coming off when they compare their new bike to their old. Often it's a cheaper 29er hardtail and then they get on a well specced 150mm trail bike, and it's OMG new geometry/suspension is amazing. Well of course it is, but you're not comparing apples with apples.


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## Bogdan_mb (Apr 1, 2013)

Started ridding on a 26" 2013 Cannondale Jekyll ( base kit) maxed it out and felt great 

Replaced in 2017 with 27.5" YT Capra - wow what an upgrade over the previous bike but was sluggish on climbs

Got a DH bike on the meantime and just got a 29" 2021 Norco Optic - very impressed, goes almost as good as the Capra on the downs that's because : bigger wheels, new Geo, improved suspension. Climbs heaps better than the Capra. 

To make it short : 29 inch + good geometry and suspension thaf works great ( good damping) is the winning solution for a while. A bike with 140 mm rear - 160 front is the Golden key at this point to get you everywhere


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Yes a mediocre new 2021 bike is better than your five year old bike. Better than your five year old bike when it was new, now that is a different question. Bikes wear and get worse with use, unless you are doing major overhauls every year or so your bike has slowly deteriorated and doesn't ride nearly like it did new.

This is the big reason why people find new bikes so much better. My wife races professional and gets a new bike every year, sometimes the bike is exactly the same as last years bike. The new bike is always way better than her old one. And her bikes are maintained and kept fresh throughout a year like very few are.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Looking at the geo of the 2016 Remedy...it is a bit conservative compared to the long bikes of today...but the geo to me looks just fine...maybe the head angle is a bit steep...as of now...but an angleset can fix that. At least for me...I wouldn't have any problems riding it today.


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## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

Like many have said, it's definitely personal preference. I asked the same thing last year. My three main bikes were from '14, '15 and '16, and I'd upgraded the crap out of them. Then I traded-in the 27.5 that was from '14 for a new '20 frame, and it was a huge difference. Not necessarily on how it rode, but on how it fit. I'm tall, 6'5, and the extra reach from modern geo is the bomb as far as I'm concerned. Then out of boredom and b/c I had extra cash from not traveling during lockdown, I upgraded the two 29ers I had. (I build own bikes so buy frames and reuse parts.)

I will say this about the new long travel 29ers. In the past I had a '12 Niner WFO which was considered "long travel" way back when, and it was followed by a Banshee Prime and Canfield Riot, all specced for 140mm forks. I tried all those bikes with 150mm forks and I hated it. Super boring, like point and shoot with no effort, skill or finesse, and swore off any 29er with more than 140mm travel. Well, I broke that oath end of last year when I bought a Ripmo frame, and it's definitely not in the same ballpark as those older bikes. Still a monster truck, but light and poppy, so guess I'd argue better than its predecessors.


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## Attacking Mid (Dec 10, 2004)

RS VR6 said:


> Looking at the geo of the 2016 Remedy...it is a bit conservative compared to the long bikes of today...but the geo to me looks just fine...maybe the head angle is a bit steep...as of now...but an angleset can fix that. At least for me...I wouldn't have any problems riding it today.


Actually, unless something new has come along, that bike can NOT accept any sort of angled headset due to the integrated headset of the carbon frame. I had that exact bike and probably would have kept it longer if I could have put a -2 headset in it. It was a decent overall bike with somewhat conservative geometry for the year, but for what I ride here on the FR in Co, my Transition Sentinel's geometry simply works world's better for me. FWIW, one of my sons is still riding a 2015 Remedy 9 with a -2 Works headset and he's an amazing rider. That bike is definitely getting quite "long in the tooth", though and he has his eye on a Banshee Titan for a replacement.

AM.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Attacking Mid said:


> Actually, unless something new has come along,* that bike can NOT accept any sort of angled headset due to the integrated headset of the carbon frame*. I had that exact bike and probably would have kept it longer if I could have put a -2 headset in it. It was a decent overall bike with somewhat conservative geometry for the year, but for what I ride here on the FR in Co, my Transition Sentinel's geometry simply works world's better for me. FWIW, one of my sons is still riding a 2015 Remedy 9 with a -2 Works headset and he's an amazing rider. That bike is definitely getting quite "long in the tooth", though and he has his eye on a Banshee Titan for a replacement.
> 
> AM.


There actually is an angleset for integrated headsets.









New Slack-R Headset From 9point8 Allows Angle Adjustment for Integrated Headsets


Want slacker headtube angle for your mountain bike? The Slack-R headset might be able to help.




www.singletracks.com


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

If you are talking about 29ers it is a big yes. I personally feel like 2019 was a nailed it kind of year. My previous bike was a 2017. I bought it because I wasn't feeling the 29ers. They seemed off to me. I could feel the rollover thing but as a short rider I felt very on top of the bike unless I sized down. Still the cornering felt odd to me. In 2019 I demoed a ton of bikes and ended up with a Megatower and a Ripley. Both bikes were instantly better feeling then any other 29er I tried from a few years back. The geometry trends finally hit a sweet spot.


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## throet (Oct 8, 2016)

I recently cracked the frame on my 2017 Intense Primer and had to give serious thought to whether or not I wanted to go down the path of an accident replacement, or just replace it with a more modern frame, like the Yeti SB130. I opted to just replace it with the same old Primer frame because to me it has the tweener geo that fits me perfectly, and I've grown to love the incredibly short wheelbase for the type of riding I like to do. I ride mostly rocky, technical features that require a lot of bike wrangling, often at slower speeds. I just couldn't see myself doing the things I do with the kind of reach numbers you see on modern size L bikes. Had I opted for that SB130, I would have gone with a size M. 

In the 2 months that I spent rebuilding my Primer, I was riding my 2014 Remedy and enjoying it thoroughly, despite the old school geo. Bottom line is that any ride is better than no ride, and the rider makes much more difference than the bike.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

I ride with a guy who has a 2017 Primer. It doesn't slow him down one bit on the ups or the downs!


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## EvanWilliams1783 (Oct 11, 2011)

I had a 2014 fuel ex 29 and a 2014 29 hard tail. Just got a top fuel and it’s completely different. Better in every way. Same trails are still fun but the bike just feels better.


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