# Whey protein and electrolytes



## cr500taco (Sep 8, 2012)

I am looking for a whey protein for after rides and after the gym. What are you guys using and what do you recommend? I'm thinking of getting the Optimum Gold Standard 100% whey protein, but wanted to see what you guys are using and recommend, first.

Also, what are you guys using for electrolytes during a ride? I am staying clear of gatorade because it's too syrupy and sugary for me.


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## SJJ28 (Oct 23, 2012)

Look into Hammer Nutrition Products. I have used all sorts of different products for the gym (weights), biking, as well as endurance auto racing (my profession). I'm happiest in the end with the Hammer stuff because it doesn't have all the added sugars (or worse sugar substitutes), and swag. There stuff is basically all natural. 
I use everything from their vitamins and supplements, to their energy stuff for during rides, and their recovery stuff.

If you want more detailed info, feel free to PM me, I don't want to become a commercial on the site!

Steve


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

http://forums.mtbr.com/nutrition-hydration/protein-807048.html


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## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

Just a note on electrolytes. The composition of sweat varies from person to person (and even day to day), but on average contains sodium at 900mg/L, potassium at 200mg/L, calcium at 15mg/L, and magnesium at 13mg/L, with additional trace elements. Keep these concentration guidelines in mind when evaluating the electrolyte content of drinks and fuels. Unfortunately, many sports drinks contain only a fraction of the electrolytes found in sweat or tout other ingredients as “electrolytes” that aren’t found in sweat. When in doubt, look at the ingredients and nutrition information to determine the quantities of electrolytes and compare them to sweat.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

jennyv said:


> Just a note on electrolytes. The composition of sweat varies from person to person (and even day to day), but on average contains sodium at 900mg/L, potassium at 200mg/L, calcium at 15mg/L, and magnesium at 13mg/L, with additional trace elements. Keep these concentration guidelines in mind when evaluating the electrolyte content of drinks and fuels. Unfortunately, many sports drinks contain only a fraction of the electrolytes found in sweat or tout other ingredients as "electrolytes" that aren't found in sweat. When in doubt, look at the ingredients and nutrition information to determine the quantities of electrolytes and compare them to sweat.


jenny,

Should cyclist stay away from whey due to the ammonia byproduct that results during the digestion process of gultimine in the whey? Since ammonia cause's your muscles to fatigue faster?

Or should it just be used after physical activity is completed?


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## ATown17 (Nov 6, 2012)

protein should be taken after your ride or workout


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## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

It turns out that protein is the leading cause of GI issues for endurance athletes so I wouldn't recommend it while you are riding. Protein is a very complex molecule that takes a great deal of digestive effort and time to break down into usable fuel (with ammonia being one of the byproducts). The digestion actually costs more calories than your body can derive from protein. So it's a net loss energy-wise, and it really stresses your digestive system, which is why a lot of athletes have GI problems with protein, especially for longer duration and/or higher intensity efforts. It's an important part of your diet for rebuilding muscle and recovery, but doesn't have any proven performance benefit during exercise, and can even hinder recovery if you load up on protein before replenishing glucose stores. 

So yes, use protein as part of your recovery but not while you are riding.


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## cr500taco (Sep 8, 2012)

ATown17 said:


> protein should be taken after your ride or workout


Yes, that I know. But, I am asking which Whey protein is recommended?


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## cr500taco (Sep 8, 2012)

jennyv said:


> It turns out that protein is the leading cause of GI issues for endurance athletes so I wouldn't recommend it while you are riding. Protein is a very complex molecule that takes a great deal of digestive effort and time to break down into usable fuel (with ammonia being one of the byproducts). The digestion actually costs more calories than your body can derive from protein. So it's a net loss energy-wise, and it really stresses your digestive system, which is why a lot of athletes have GI problems with protein, especially for longer duration and/or higher intensity efforts. It's an important part of your diet for rebuilding muscle and recovery, but doesn't have any proven performance benefit during exercise, and can even hinder recovery if you load up on protein before replenishing glucose stores.
> 
> So yes, use protein as part of your recovery but not while you are riding.


I have been hearing that one should use a recovery supplement over whey protein after workout/ride to replace carbs, as well and also the sugar helps protein get into the muscles, faster. And, I have heard that whey protein is to build lean muscle. Right now, I am getting back into working out and riding and need to loose weight. Should I stay away from the recovery, right now and just do whey protein?


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## cr500taco (Sep 8, 2012)

cr500taco said:


> Yes, that I know. But, I am asking which Whey protein is recommended?


sorry, that response wasn't directed to me.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

cr500taco said:


> I have been hearing that one should use a recovery supplement over whey protein after workout/ride to replace carbs, as well and also the sugar helps protein get into the muscles, faster. And, I have heard that whey protein is to build lean muscle. Right now, I am getting back into working out and riding and need to loose weight. Should I stay away from the recovery, right now and just do whey protein?


Not sure what you mean by recovery but whey protein right after, or at least within an hour after or it's to late to get the most gains and fastest recovery from your workout. Whey protein with milk is pretty much ideal 4:1 ratio of carbs/protein. It's best to get nutrition from real food but right after a workout whey powder is the fastest digested and absorbed, all other times, or whenever doable eat real food at around the same 4:1 ratio. 
Don't get caught up with isolates vs concentrates vs hydrolysates because althou some are better and faster it just really doesn't matter. Find one you like and drink it.
Fwiw my fav is Optimum Nutrition Gold Standard all natural 100% whey. The version that's not all natural has more sugar and I don't like it as much but it's pretty good too.


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## Optimus (Apr 14, 2012)

^^^What Meat, jenny, and SJJ said. Actually, good quality soy protein can be consumed during exercise, and should be if you are going much longer than 2 hours, which is about where your body starts feeding off lean muscle. Lots of good info online, you just need to Google. Hammer Nutrition has a ton of info on their website. I personally use Hammer almost exclusively, but in the past have had very good results from Optimum Nutrition.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

I use Optimum Gold Standard 100% casein protein. 
It is good stuff. 

For Whey, I use EAS. 
It tastes good and I can get cheap at target.

I also use EAS ready to drink shakes. 
Keep one in the truck on ice for post rides.
Just easier then trying to mix one at the trail head.

Other supplement bars I use are Clif Bars and Clif Builder Bars


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

kjlued said:


> I use Optimum Gold Standard 100% casein protein.
> It is good stuff.
> 
> For Whey, I use EAS.
> ...


Casein is best before bed or if you're going to go many hours between meals because it's slowest digested and absorbed. Btw, cottage cheese is the best real food source for that.


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## jennyv (Nov 13, 2012)

Optimus said:


> ^^^What Meat, jenny, and SJJ said. Actually, good quality soy protein can be consumed during exercise, and should be if you are going much longer than 2 hours, which is about where your body starts feeding off lean muscle. Lots of good info online, you just need to Google. Hammer Nutrition has a ton of info on their website. I personally use Hammer almost exclusively, but in the past have had very good results from Optimum Nutrition.


Joe Friel has some good info on this with a list of the recent studies at the end of the post: joefrielsblog.com/2011/09/should-you-use-carbohydrate-protein-sports-drinks.html


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

choosing a whey protein, I would read the label carefully. I'd never buy something that includes: sucralose, aspartame, soy, whey isolate alone (whey blend and isolate is ok imo), soy lecithin, creatine, taurine, etc,etc.

Basically, I'd go the more natural way. I did search for such product and came out with very little choice. Hammer protein sounds good, but the chocolate flavor has soy in it.


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## hungoverracer (Oct 27, 2012)

Is there anything to help with fatigue, I've been taking jack 3d an hour before riding to get me pumped up. However it's my legs that feel the worst and often cut my ride short.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

hungoverracer said:


> Is there anything to help with fatigue, I've been taking jack 3d an hour before riding to get me pumped up. However it's my legs that feel the worst and often cut my ride short.


Some people find creatine helpful, some have side effects like the shakes. You must take enough daily till you get enough built up in your system for it to benefit. 
Eat a decent meal about an hour before any exercise.
Try alternating between standing and sitting.
Training in your lactic threshold not only gets your muscles better at flushing the toxins that're causing the burn but gets your mind used to dealing with it while in that zone.
Jack 3 can boost your energy for while but once it runs out you're more likely to bonk hard. IMO, ween yourself off that, or at least only use it on shorter rides or workouts.


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

omg, jack3d....

just rest more and eat real food....

Learn how to train properly, nail your recovery nutrition and have good sleep.

jack3d, cmon


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## cr500taco (Sep 8, 2012)

Devincicx said:


> choosing a whey protein, I would read the label carefully. I'd never buy something that includes: sucralose, aspartame, soy, whey isolate alone (whey blend and isolate is ok imo), soy lecithin, creatine, taurine, etc,etc.
> 
> Basically, I'd go the more natural way. I did search for such product and came out with very little choice. Hammer protein sounds good, but the chocolate flavor has soy in it.


I've been looking at either the Hammer Whey protein or the True Nutrition Whey protein.


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

Progressive Nutritional also makes 2 interesting protein supplement: one 100% organic and also the Harmonized whey protein, which comes from NZ cows and sweetned with stevia leaf extract. Im waiting on a container of both, could report back.


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

theMeat said:


> Casein is best before bed or if you're going to go many hours between meals because it's slowest digested and absorbed. Btw, cottage cheese is the best real food source for that.


That is when I use it.:thumbsup:

I usually work out at night before I go to bed and make a shake with whey and casein after wards.


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## hitechredneck (May 9, 2009)

Jack3d is great stuff for shorter work outs. I find that I crash pretty hard unless I take it after a meal about a hour before I work out. So meal, then jack3d but I use it about 30 mins before a workout. I have used it for riding but find that it works best on about a hour to hour and half rides longer then that I start to crash. Timing is important with that stuff, try 20-30mins before ride a ride and have about 300-400 calories a hour before you ride. I like to get moving before my skin starts to tingle.

For protein I take 100% Whey Gold Standard - $26.49 | Optimum Nutrition: True Strength it works pretty well without all the extra junk. I drink it within a half a hour or so after a ride while I eat a meal.


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

hitechredneck said:


> Jack3d is great stuff for shorter work outs. I find that I crash pretty hard unless I take it after a meal about a hour before I work out. So meal, then jack3d but I use it about 30 mins before a workout. I have used it for riding but find that it works best on about a hour to hour and half rides longer then that I start to crash. Timing is important with that stuff, try 20-30mins before ride a ride and have about 300-400 calories a hour before you ride. I like to get moving before my skin starts to tingle.
> 
> For protein I take 100% Whey Gold Standard - $26.49 | Optimum Nutrition: True Strength it works pretty well without all the extra junk. I drink it within a half a hour or so after a ride while I eat a meal.


I dont understand why you guys recommend Jack3d before training. Are you guys training to be better or training to use supplement on purpose? Why exactly are you using this jack3d product? It is banned in some countries. This thing has no energy in it and contains creatine. Why would someone want creatine and no energy for cycling training? (assuming you cycle train).

I think you guys must learn a thing or 2 about training and start eating real foods. A North-American daily diet contains more then enough proteins for daily needs.

Also, that whey protein without the junk is filled with sucralose and soy lecithin, both VERY good for you....


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## SJJ28 (Oct 23, 2012)

Devincicx said:


> Also, that whey protein without the junk is filled with sucralose and soy lecithin, both VERY good for you....


THIS!!!

Read the Label... that "100% Whey" is so NOT 100% Whey... it has all kinds of other "EXTRA JUNK"....


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## K-Log (Nov 20, 2012)

I like to use Body Fortress Super Advanced Whey Protein (chocolate peanut butter) from Walmart. 14.99 for 2lbs and I like the taste. lt has 26g of protein for each 140 cal scoop and should be taken within 20 min of your workout for recovery!! Love this stuff! IMO.... Now I'm just an average user..  You can always pay more.. Lol


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## soloarts (Nov 3, 2012)

*electrolytes*

Having coached cyclists for years now I've seen lots of different responses to electrolyte supplementation. Let me just say that everyone is different. And each individual sweats differently at different times.Typically, you'll sweat more on a sustained hard effort ride in summer than during a recovery ride in the fall due to many factors. Interestingly, you can also sweat more on one day than another at similar effort and ambient temps. So, I'd encourage you to ask for guidance as you have here and try things that seem like "best practices".

Personally, I have gone from years of salt tabs, Endurolytes, and other forms of supplementation to just having it all (carbs, water, electrolytes) in my drink mix. Much easier, more consistent, and it encourages me to hydrate while riding. Most drink mixes out there don't have nearly the amount of electrolytes deeded to perform well.

And here's the big thing: electrolytes (sodium in particular) are important not just for replacing sweated salts or cramp prevention, sodium is a beneficial component of gastric emptying in that it helps accelerate hydration and nutrients from the gut to the muscles- especially in combination with glucose and fructose.

So, do some experimentation. See what works best for you and keep experimenting on a fine tuning basis after you've got your mix down. This could take weeks and longer because a single ride isn't an experiment by itself, it's just a data point.

Ride hard & smile wide,
Rich
SoloArts Cycling &
Tailwind Nutrition


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Good stuff soloarts,
Try this,....Vanilla whey with orange Gatorade for an orange creamsicle flavor. I actually enjoy it. Either 1-2 scoops whey with gatorade, maybe some milk post workout, or just put a half scoop right into gaterade and sip on really hot days of riding or whatever. Plus simple carbs like sugar, fructose can be good for you during and right after exercise. Most of the time I drink plain water, and eat real food for everything else. I also feel I perform best when slightly dehydrated. At least that's what works for me so, well said Soloarts.


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## NuckingFuts (Aug 27, 2008)

ON 100% Whey. I take it 20 mins before lifting weights and i experience a significant boost in sustained energy through the end of a 1hr high intensity session. Ive tried similar when riding and dont get same affect. With that said, I still use it (along with e-lytes) before a ride as it is a quick digesting protein that feeds my body w/o any problems. I always post ride with a meal and never whey unless I cant get food within 30 min of finishing.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

NuckingFuts said:


> ON 100% Whey. I take it 20 mins before lifting weights and i experience a significant boost in sustained energy through the end of a 1hr high intensity session. Ive tried similar when riding and dont get same affect. With that said, I still use it (along with e-lytes) before a ride as it is a quick digesting protein that feeds my body w/o any problems. I always post ride with a meal and never whey unless I cant get food within 30 min of finishing.


Are you Nuckin futz? Oh, ....yes you are, LOL sorry had to do it, LOL

Seriously, protein last a few hours so eating regular food with enough is just as good prolly better. Maybe a combo of faster and slower for more throughout. After your workout is when you need faster absorbing like whey. If anything more carbs before, more protein after. Not trying to tell you what works for you, just sayin. I also just eat within a 1/2 hour or so but if I pushed hard, or I'm looking to gain more, I'll have whey right after and a meal about an hour after that too.


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## NuckingFuts (Aug 27, 2008)

theMeat said:


> Are you Nuckin futz? Oh, ....yes you are, LOL sorry had to do it, LOL
> 
> Seriously, protein last a few hours so eating regular food with enough is just as good prolly better. Maybe a combo of faster and slower for more throughout. After your workout is when you need faster absorbing like whey. If anything more carbs before, more protein after. Not trying to tell you what works for you, just sayin. I also just eat within a 1/2 hour or so but if I pushed hard, or I'm looking to gain more, I'll have whey right after and a meal about an hour after that too.


Agreed, complete protein complexes are king!


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

actually, generally, the best post workout recovery should include a specific ratio of carbs/proteins, something like 2/1 for heavy weight stuff and more like 4/1 for high intensity aerobic training.

Your body needs carbs to process the other nutrients


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## Toxis (May 19, 2011)

I've recently switched to NNW whey protein. It comes in 1, 2 or 5lb bags at my local grocery store. The flavor is great, mixes well and is very low calorie per serving. 108-112 depending on flavor. I feel better post rides/workouts with it than the generic Walmart variety I was using.


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