# Rantings on the Fatkins diet. People are still buying this crap!?



## FreeRangeChicken (Jan 13, 2004)

[RANT]
A few weeks back I went home to my hometown in the midwest. I had heard that US Census information ranked this City as the 50th largest city inthe nation. After living around Boulder Colorado for the last six years, where people seem to be freakishly fit, I was absolutely *stunned* at how large and out of shape people were back home.

Fast forward a couple of weeks: I go to France for the 60th D-Day Anniversary (Click here for pictorial). One of the first thigs I notice is how much bread these people eat, the next thing I notice is how few fat people there are. So I'm thinking that this pretty much blows the Fatkins diet out of the water.

Body builders have known for decades that if you want to get lean and or lose weight, you change the balance of protein and carbs in your diet and throttle the calorie intake. How the hell did Atkin's get credit for discovering that lowering your carb intake can help you lose weight? The only thing he did was take it to the extreme. It's a FRIGGIN FAD DIET AND IT"S NOT HEALTY!

Another thing I noticed while in France was that meals pretty much consisted of "reasonable" portions. In the beginning I felt a little slighted by this. I remember thinking, "for this price, I would get much more food back home." That's when the epiphany hit me. That's why were so fat as a nation. We friggin supersize everything to teh extreme. I mean really, do you *need* to get a 64oz big gulp to wash down that big mac and supersized (freedom)fries? Do you need three trips to the buffet? Gotta get your money's worth.

Our sensibilities have gone out the window and we have to feel like we are getting the absolute most volume for our money. There are definitely some self restraint issues involved here, but I think it speaks a lot to the marketing machine as well. Companies are doing anything they can to grab a larger percentage of the consumer market share... get 30% more for half the price,... blah, blah, blah. Gotta maximize that dollar. It's tough, and the environment is hostile when you think about it in terms of your health.

Recently I've been trying to get a little leaner. At 5'10" - 165lbs I'm not exactly overweight, but I'm trying to work of a deposit around my belly button that seems to appear every winter. It's tough to eat health because I feel like I'm always on the run with little time to prep quality food, and it seems like most of the fast prep food is stacked with carbs. I'm having a tough time of it, so I can definitely sypathize with people that have more of a weight problem.

Here's the FRC diet. It's gonna be famous. You say you saw it here first:
1) Eat less
2) Tip the scales toward more proteins and fewer carbs
3) Eat less
4) Exercise
5) Eat less

Seems to be working for me.

This is going to be big! Don't forget, you got it here for free.

[/RANT]

_- Opinions expressed in this rant are not those of mtbr.com or its affiliate web sites
- Consult your physician before changing your diet or exercise routine
- FRC is a raving lunatic and has absolutely no medical, legal or other basis for his claims other than emperical evidence in a single test case and common sense_


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

*and since when&#8230;*

did it become known as a "low carb life style"? wtf does that mean

I read the southbeach diet book because I was trying to loose a few pounds before christmas. It's a bit different than fatkins, but basically the same idea. It doesn't limit carbs as much a fatkins though.

I did phase 1 for a week (supposed to be 2) and then went to phase 2 which allows fruit and some whole grains (man, was that a good bowl of oatmeal!). I did lose ten pounds, and have kept it off.

The thing that cracks me up though, is this book basically tells you that processed grains are the problem. It talks about the evils of mass market foods, the presevatives, and the corruption that fuels the industry.

Then all these "low carb" products are everywhere. they're such a rip off, and pretty much kill the benefit of a lower carb diet. Hello, it's the same processed crap!


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## Sabine (Jan 12, 2004)

I am going to race the Pescadero Road Race this weekend, and after the race as my reward, I am going to eat a whole loaf of this
http://www.arcangeligrocery.com/bread_artichoke.html
Yes a whole loaf of warm, fluffy, garlicky wheat carbs.

So ppfffftttttt to all those who eschew carrots but eat cheese for lunch.

Sabine


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

As a person who is constantly fighting to keep my weight down (and losing over the last 6 months with a child) I think you hit the nail on the head with a few additional points.

1) As you said, portion size here is out of control. Look back 30 years ago. That crummy little 39cent cheeseburger, small fries and small drink at McDonalds was considered a full meal. A Big Mack was a large burger. Compare that to the new Carl's Junior 1 pound burger (8 times as much meat). Extreme example but true. I find when I go to Fuddruckers and have my Chili Cheese Dog for a treat they look at me like I am nuts when I say no to the fries and soda. 

2) People for some reason think that Protein=Fat. They don't seem to understand that there is a world of difference between having a grilled chicken breast and a hamburger patty with cheese and bacon. Yes both are "low carb" but one is actually pretty healthy. I laugh when I see a 300 pound person ordering a large burger or other similar thing and ask for them to hold the bun. Guess what it isn't working. 

3) Dr. Dean Edell has said it time and time again. Many studies have been done concerning the protein v. carb v. fat v. everything. The result is the same every time, it doesn't matter the source of the calories, it is total calories taken in that determine weight gain and loss. 

4) Unknown to me, until I was 29, I ate what most people consider the Atkins Diet. Lots of Cheese, Steak, bacon, fried crap. All it got me was being overweight and high cholestoral. I still love a burger, but nowdays it is 98 out of 100 times, I stick with the grilled chicken breast sandwich, with lettuce, onion and some Barbeque sauce to lube it up.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Oops, went to click on the Clyde forum and accidently ended up here. Hope I didn't piss anyone off with my post. I still think it is relevant.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

As far as the 'low-carb' thing goes, I have one and only one major question: if carbs are making us so darn unhealthy, WHY IS IT that asian people are so thin, have such low heart disease rates, and low incidence of diabetes when compared to the US?????

Anyway, I'm no diet guru. Trying to shed a few pounds here, but I generally do that by exercising more and eating less. No one wants to hear that though.


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## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

verslowrdr said:


> ...Trying to shed a few pounds here, but I generally do that by exercising more and eating less. No one wants to hear that though.


No, it's not that nobody wants to hear it, it's just that nobody can make any money SAYING it. If you could make a fortune promoting common sense, then there'd be people falling over each other to state the obvious.  

...On a related topic, my GF works for an un-named national smoothie chain, beginning with the letter 'T' and ending in 'Y'.  They developed a new line of lo-carb smoothies, and wanted to be able to put the "Atkin's Approved" logo on it. She called to inquire about becoming Atkins-certified, and Atkins said, "...No problem; simply (among a couple of other things) send us $1 million".  ...Yep, 'ol Atkins is really lookin' out for the well-being of its cult followers, not it's own bottom line...right?


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## AZtortoise (Jan 12, 2004)

Atkins is dead. i guess he was pretty fat when he died. the wife said he was bloated from some medication. a local doctor, on tv, said he was fat for quite some time. i really wonder why he died and why was he so fat?

i think people need carbs, protein and fat. the main thing is to eat smaller portions and exercise if weight loss is the goal. i lost 20lbs last year and did not give up any of my favorite foods, including ice cream, i just ate smaller portions.

i see tv ads advertising this or that supplement to get the nutrients needed by people who are on the low carb diet. does this make sense? give up healthy food and eat high protein, high fat, to lose weight? too much protein can trash your renal system and high fat clogs the heart and arteries. all that fiber and vital nutrients in carbs can stave off cancer among other things. sure, the processed carbs are bad, i am not advocating that 'food' but veggies and fruit are vital for good health.

the key word of advice is: moderation!

Rita
p.s. btw, chocolate is a vital part of my diet.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

zer0 said:


> ....the key word of advice is: moderation!
> 
> Rita
> p.s. btw, chocolate is a vital part of my diet.


**GASP** Moderation!!! But...but...but... that would make ME responsible! I thought you'd have nice little point systems and pre- packaged food and pills I could pop so I didn't have to go out and get sweaty!

Chocolate was yesterday, beer is today. Unless I can find some chocolate around here of course.....


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*portion size is key*

We're definitely deluded as to what we understand about portions in this country. When I lived in France, the first thing I had to get used to was the fact that people really didn't snack in between meals. Sure, there was a sit-down for a spot of coffee and a croissant or something around 5pm, but dinner was rarely before 8:30, and was always light. Lunch was more like what we'd call dinner. I remember going a little nuts not being able to grab a snack, and that's how I learned: Snacking Is Not A Past-time!

Marketing is responsible for the portion sizes we have here, as mentioned above. Restaurants don't spend a whole lot more on pasta to double the size of your fettucini alfredo. They also don't care about your health- restaurants want you back next week b/c you got so much of their really tasty (aka fattening) food.

What floored me when they praised the Atkins diet on Dateline was when one journalist was describing how miraculous it worked: He was sitting in a steakhouse, with the typical steakhouse meal in front of him. You know, steak, fries, creamed spinach, coke, and a piece of cake. Well, all you do is remove the cake, fries, creamed spinach, and coke! You can still eat the steak!

Well, DUUUUHHH!!!!!! Even when I go out to eat, I *never* eat THAT MUCH. I know better than to eat anything with "cream," and if I do, I skip dessert, or vice versa. If I crave fries, I try to share them with somebody else. And I don't drink coke. If THAT'S how he's been eating all along, no WONDER he lost weight on "Atkins." It's just calorie reduction and COMMON SENSE.

We're a capitalist society, and Big Corporate doesn't care who dies, as long as they make a profit. Like drug dealers, they peddle what makes us feel good in the short run, even if it kills us eventually. So we think that being surrounded by snack food is normal.

Here's some of what I do in an attempt at moderation:

1) When going out to a restaurant, take home half the plate for tomorrow.

2) If you really want something, eat some of it. For example, if I MUST have Wendy's french fries, I get a small box. But no burger or pie or anything else. If I'm especially good, I won't eat all of them.

3) When I'm thirsty, I don't drink fruit juice "straight up." I fill the glass about 1/4 of the way with juice, and the rest with seltzer or plain water.

4) When I'm hungry, I try to bulk up whatever I'm eating with vegetables or brown rice or something healthy. Instead of two black bean tortillas, I'll have one black bean and one vegetable, for example.

5) I allow myself a donut with coffee in the morning. Why? Think about it: A bagel from a bagel shop is the size of a steering wheel, and has about 500 calories. One Dunkin' Donut is about 200. If I'm craving sweets, I'll get a glazed or cinnamon donut as well, and nibble on the outside part ONLY. Besides, if I eat a light breakfast, I'm often famished by the evening.

6) Coffee is fine, just ask them to put A LITTLE cream in it, as opposed to the quarter cup they normally throw in there. Sure, I love how it tastes with a bunch of cream, but I don't need it. And real sugar, not the fake stuff. I find that a little cream goes a longer way than, say, skim milk in terms of taste.

7) Some foods are like crack, and I must avoid them b/c I cannot consume them in moderation. PopTarts, for example. Not a whole lot of food there, but the calorie content is amazingly high! Entemann's mini chocolate chip cookies cannot be in the house, nor brownie mix.

8) If I crave sweets (which is always), I have to walk to the bodega five blocks away and get a little something. Italian ices are acceptable, as are packages of candy that can be consumed bit by bit. If I must have chocolate, I buy a bar, have a piece, and stash the rest in the freezer. Sometimes I even forget it's there.

Anyhoo. Don't forget, also, that the French are often very thin b/c they're also a nation of chainsmokers!!


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## mddirtgrl (Apr 1, 2004)

*My two cents...*

Coming from person who lost 20 lbs in one year without really trying....(I'm 5'6" and went from 137 to 117), eat more often, just eat less!!! I credit my learning how to eat better to my bf, who at one point was a bodybuilder, best thing he taught me was to eat breakfast. Get your metabolism going as soon as you get up, and then keep it satisfied. Five small meals a day is so much better for you than 3 large meals b/c it keeps your metabolism rolling. My stomach grumbles all day long, looking for food, but the whole time I've been dropping lbs.

Looking back there were a few other things I also did, quit drinking, beer that is, stopped eating cheese (my cheese is you guys chocolate!  ) No late night grubbing, and I added a lot more protein to my diet. But not once, not even for a day did I give up my best friend the carb!!

It's definitely a lifestyle change, but it doesn't have to be as hard as it seems. I also think it's really important not to completely cut things out of your diet, b/c then you focus on not being able to have them, and the cravings will drive you crazy until you gorge yourself on whatever your vice is.

But it's so much easier for people to make a quick fix, instead of making a lifestyle change, otherwise Leptoprin wouldn't be selling for $153 a bottle, **I know you guys have seen that commercial**

One question, if we drop lbs, can we still moooo in here??? 

** I love cow....on a big fat bun, with french fries!! **


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## SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed (Jan 26, 2004)

*Oh boy, my favorite topic...*

My mom was a health nut, and I have since seen myself become a health nut.

The Low Carb Lifestyle is no different than the Low Fat fad we went through several years back. People realized their fingernails broke and their hair fell out because they didn't have enough fat in their diet.

There's no doubt that fewer caloies and more excersize it the way to lose weight. Maximizing the calories that you do eat is what keeps you from being hungry. The US is starting to catch on in obsurd extreme ways...Stay away from processed carbohydrates. White bread,candy bars, and chips are empty calories garaunteed to make you suffer with hunger before your next meal. Stay away from transfats absolutely, and stay away from saturated as much as possible. Transfats are molecularly one link away from being PLASTIC. If you granualize a shampoo bottle and mix it up with natural peanut butter (and corn syrup), you get the smooth flavorful taste of Jiff, yet you can't digest the shampoo bottle. I know I'm exagerating to make a point.

I gladly don't have a problem with weight...I stay away from processed foods and the above, and I excersize. PS: "processed" does not simply mean carrots chopped up into sticks. "Processed" is changing the chemical composition of foods...if a hot dog was beef, water, and salt it would not be processed.


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## SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed (Jan 26, 2004)

*Oh and I'm not done...*

I had to seperate this from the last post because of credibility because this theory could be fetched.

Last year was the onset of the Atkins craze, where fruits and veggies are the basis for making you fat. Fresh foods help build your immune system. A slab of cow has no effect on your body's ability to fight the flu, seasonal colds, broncitis....I think that this shift in America's diet made an impact on our sick season last fall. The US shot our immune system all to hell by avoiding nature's essential crops and then paniced when we kept getting sicker.


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## CycleMainiac (Jan 12, 2004)

too much protein is really hard on your kidneys too. it's like trading one health issue for a hidden issue.

moderation is the key and I struggle with it too.


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## gofarther (Mar 2, 2004)

Down with Fatkins.

I say we all unite to save the potatoe from extinction


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## FreeRangeChicken (Jan 13, 2004)

gofarther said:


> Down with Fatkins.
> 
> I say we all unite to save the potatoe from extinction


I heard on the news yesterday that someone has just genetically engineered a new "low carb" potato with 30% less carbs. Really.


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## SueB (Mar 16, 2004)

gofarther said:


> Down with Fatkins.
> 
> I say we all unite to save the potatoe from extinction


I'm doing my part!!

I'm not one to indulge often in chips and the like, have always enjoyed fruits and veggies as well as meat. I try to eat unprocessed flour products, but don't stress out about them. I'm also more aware of preservatives in foods. I refuse to give up potatoes, bananas, carrots, etc. because of carbs. I try to eat a balanced, appropriately portioned diet and exercise. It works for me.

Pass the bread........


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## gofarther (Mar 2, 2004)

Here in Canada, the low carb fad has absolutely crippled the potatoe industry in Prince Edward Island. People are losing their farms and livelihoods.

Just plain silly.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*It just goes to show*

That people will do almost anything in order to NOT exercise.


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## HappyHamster (Jun 3, 2004)

AMEN, jrm!

I've worked on the side as a personal trainer for five years now, and I've seen just about everything you can imagine. My ultimate goal with my clients is to improve the quality of their lives through imcreased fitness and health. One mantra I try to instill in my clients is that the body can be likened to a machine, the better quality fuel that is put into it, the more efficient it runs. That is, quality nutrition keeps you healthy, provides the energy you need for better exercise sessions, and you become more fit as a result. It's a reinforcing positive circle, vs. the self destructive, lazy, fatkins money making approach at the expense of the health of this country! I absolutely freak out every time I hear "new low carb this or that" to the point that my husband utterly enjoys my outraged resulting swearing fits. Can you tell I have a little bit of an opinion about this?  

Anyway, the best common sense approach is smaller, balanced frequent meals throughout the day: whole grain breads, cereals, ets., fresh fruit and veggies, lean proteins, healthy fats in moderation, and plenty of water - all with moderated portion sizes - as was said so well above. You can splurge if you want, just in moderation. It's not rocket science, it's livable as a lifestyle for a lifetime, and it works! 

I think I'll go eat a bagel now.....


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## SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed (Jan 26, 2004)

I get cranky if I don't ride or excerize. What makes inactive people think they're cranky for other reasons.


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed said:


> I get cranky if I don't ride or excerize. What makes inactive people think they're cranky for other reasons.


amen to that! my wife often tells me I have to go ride because she knows what a bear Ill be if I don't. Its mental and physical health that = helthy living. I guess everything really is about balance...riding, mental/physical health, carbs vs protein, pesonal time vs SO/kid time...whenever we get out of balance, something suffers. simple as that.

if you ever want a good (albeit a little hokey) read, get Dan Millman's The Way of the Peaceful Warrior. great thought provoking stuff on things like balance and the like.

peace girl, 
nam


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

SheSpeedsNotSingleSpeed said:


> I get cranky if I don't ride or excerize. What makes inactive people think they're cranky for other reasons.


I'm right there with you. More than a few days without SOMETHING active and I've turned into UltraB!tch.... which is worse than AverageB!tch, which is what I probably am the rest of the time....


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## bobhope (Jun 22, 2004)

Sorry to rain on your little Atkins-bashing parade here, but seriously, are you all just horribly incapable of educating yourself about this diet rather than feeding the fire to your blatant misconceptions?

Listen, this diet was never about stuffing your face full of cheeseburgers sans bun. It is, ironically enough, based on the same food regimen as many of you have already posted as your own. It is about eliminating _processed_ foods from your diet -ie candy, most breads, pasta, etc- and not about completely going carb-less.

What people often fail to realize, and something to which I have become enlighted, is that sweets (basically complex carbs) are an _addiction_. I absolutely and firmly believe this. Since eating more healthily, or, if you prefer, going on an Atkins-type diet, I simply do not desire highly starchy, processed foods. I just don't want them anymore. For example, after you quit smoking, you have two reasons not to start again. 1) you just don't desire cigarettes anymore and 2) they are bad for you in the first place! Both an intuitive and rational safeguard - surefire justification NOT to do something.

So please, people, understand that the Atkins diet, contrary to your preconceived notions, stresses a common sense eating regimen consisting of foods we were designed to digest well: meat, fish, cheese, nuts, eggs, and most vegetables and fruits.

I would rectify your various misconceptions regarding kidneys and excessive protein, etc; but I'd rather lead you to this link: http://atkins.com/why/debunking-the-myths.html.

Happy eating!


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## TrailRiddler (Feb 23, 2004)

zer0 said:


> Atkins is dead. i guess he was pretty fat when he died. the wife said he was bloated from some medication. a local doctor, on tv, said he was fat for quite some time. i really wonder why he died and why was he so fat?


If I remember correctly, Atkins died because of a heart disease... oh the Irony.  His wife tried to play off his obese state at death to "water retention"...
And some guy who's cholestrol shot through the roof after eating atkins is now suing the Atkins society... who knowingly warns that a third of the dieters "may experience high cholesterol" and should consult their physicians etc...

A diet distinctly lacking in anti-oxidants and other trace vitamins etc is just a horrendous idea. I can see future headlines: "Atkins dieters found to be at 200% higher risk for cancer and heart disease." Me thinks this is a boon for the medical industry 

On the asian diet thing... lots of soy, fish, and green tea are also a big factor.


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## TrailRiddler (Feb 23, 2004)

forgot to add... the Tarahumara indians, who are renowned for their running ability & endurance (look into it if you don't know, they're pretty legendary) have a diet consisting primarily of high fiber carbohydrates. And very little protein and fat  Kind of the Anti-Atkins... 


...oh and very little rates of heart disease and cancer...


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## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

bobhope said:


> Sorry to rain your little Atkins-bashing parade here,


nicely done Bob! Condescension is far and away one of the most effective means of getting people to consider your point of view.

also remember, if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding, I mean...how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat? (repeat as necessary)

nam (grilling out tonight then off to Dairy Queen just for spite!)


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

TrailRiddler said:


> a diet consisting primarily of high fiber carbohydrates


 that's the ticket right there.

The problem with the current fad is that people want a simple answer that doesn't require any sacrifice or effort on their part. They want a simple answer, so they fad diet, and pop anti depressants and give their kids speed because they are too tired to handle the energy that children have naturally!

zoiks, sorry /rant.

There is a lot of truth to what the "low carb" thing talks about. Striping all of the fiber from carbs so they cook faster, has changed the way our bodies process these naturally healthy foods.

If you look at countries like India for instance, a country that had very little problem with diabetees years ago, and compare that to today (after they began receiving food aid from the modern world (ie: processed grains) that country now has one of the highest rates of that disease.

People are just too damn lazy to take the time to prepare healthy foods for them selves (myself included) and we're self indulgent.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

bobhope said:


> Sorry to rain your little Atkins-bashing parade here, but seriously, are you all just horribly incapable of educating yourself about this diet rather than feeding the fire to your blatant misconceptions?
> 
> Listen, this diet was never about stuffing your face full of cheeseburgers sans bun. It is, ironically enough, based on the same food regimen as many of you have already posted as your own. It is about eliminating _processed_ foods from your diet -ie candy, most breads, pasta, etc- and not about completely going carb-less.
> 
> ...


These diets are also about smaller portions, just that it isn't made obvious. If you go to BK, you only have the burger, no bun, which is about like just eating half the burger, except it doesn't require the same amount of restraint. If you go to a steak place, you eat the meat, so to speak, but skip the potato (loaded with whatever) which is about like eating half of both and saving it for the next day.

These diets are not good for athletes though. I ride with a guy who was trying the South Beach Diet, and damn did he bonk. He usually does anyways, because he's always trying to stay away from carbs. Even before the SB diet, he's said before, "Too many carbs." All the while, I'm saying things like, "But, it tastes good," and "Gotta feed the machine." It's obvious when you think about it, carbs are the fuel that powers your muscles. When you don't eat enough of them, you run out of gas.

Dieting isn't that tough, moderation, knowledge of what, and how much you're eating, are the most important parts of any diet. I lost 20 lbs (from 202 to 178 at 5'10"), without really trying, the biggest thing was that I started monitoring my calories in addition to exercise. Once you see just how many calories you're eating, versus your body's actual needs, it's easy. I used FitDay and just tried to keep my intake less than my output. I was swimming 3-5 times a week with a masters program, working out at the gym a few times a week, MTB'ing 3-6 hours on the weekend and ravenously hungry. Once you REALIZE how many calories are in something, you probably won't make that mistake again. You don't want, as an athlete, to short yourself more than about 500/day, as this impacts performance.

Rich


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## TrailRiddler (Feb 23, 2004)

(ie: processed grains)


> Highly processed carbs - I think the theory goes like this: highly processed carbs are easier to break down and digest, which leads to faster/all at once absorbtion, which leads to an insulin spike, which leads to a high rate of fat storage, especially around the gut... (closer proximity to pancreas (insulin) & liver (glycogen)? )
> 
> unprocessed/high fiber carbs take longer to break down and digest... thus acting kind of as a time release mechanism, thus slower (but sustained) glycogen production/release, thus lower insulin spike...etc.
> 
> ...


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## HappyHamster (Jun 3, 2004)

*balance.....*

Hey Bob - sorry for the "bashing" rant, and appreciate your point of view, but couldn't help but find it a bit funnny that your avatar is a really cool depiction of yin/yang - balance.....

Anyway, this is undoubtedly a topic that could be debated endlessly, but I can tell you from personal experience with myself and clients, that it is all about balance and sustainability. I've had numerous clients come to me after initial success with Atkins, then the minute they begin to try to eat "normally" again, the weight comes back. What they need isn't a "fad" diet, but a balanced lifestyle that they can sustain the rest of their lives. And I also agree about the bonking thing, it is terribly difficult for a person to exercise with any intensity while on minimal carbs, and as well the body then begins to catabolize muscle protein for fuel. This is counter-productive to maintaining muscle and thus metabolism and keeping the happy engine running.

That said, I respect everyone's opinion and right to live their life the way they see fit (pun intended?). If it works for you, and you are truly educated about the effects both short and long term on your body, then go for it.

Cheers,
Hammy


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

namaSSte said:


> also remember, if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding, I mean...how can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat? (repeat as necessary)


You show the exact reason that we need to keep the loonies on the path. Oh well, we wish you were here.


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## Spike (Dec 30, 2003)

*Addictions, cravings*



bobhope said:


> ... I simply do not desire highly starchy, processed foods. I just don't want them anymore.


How long did it take for you to break the addiction?

I've noticed that if I'm trying to cut back on fats or fried foods or sweets, after about a month of doing well, I really really crave whatever it is I'm trying to cut back on. I've never done a formal diet, and when I cut back, it isn't a huge change, just a reduction not elimination. But it seems my body is used to its regular diet and fights me (maybe its mental, maybe physical, probably both).

Spike


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

> ...What people often fail to realize, and something to which I have become enlighted, is that sweets (basically complex carbs) are an addiction...


Uh, I think we have a problem in definitions here.... From WebMD :

_Carbohydrates are the primary fuel source for your body and brain.

There are two kinds of carbohydrates:

*Simple carbs* are the sugars that occur naturally in fruits, vegetables and dairy products; and in processed foods such as breads, cereals, yogurt, spaghetti sauces, candy and pastries. 
*Complex carbs* are primarily starches, sources of which include whole grain breads, rice, pasta, potatoes and beans.

It's better to choose complex carbs over simple carbs whenever possible because simple carbs tend to be higher in calories and lower in other nutrients. Complex carbs offer more vitamins and minerals and often more dietary fiber. Some complex carbs, like beans, offer protein as well.

Vegetables and fruits rich in carbs are also high in water and low in calories, so they satisfy your appetite with fewer calories than other foods._



richde said:


> These diets are not good for athletes though. I ride with a guy who was trying the South Beach Diet, and damn did he bonk.


I got through maybe 48 hours of trying low(er) carb/ high(er) protien. It felt like heII, and I won't do it again. My weight is reasonable, my blood sugar is reasonable, my pulse and BP if anything are a little on the low side, and the dr said my cholesterol/triglyceride results put me in the 90+ percentile of healthy folks. LONG LIVE THE CARBS.


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## bobhope (Jun 22, 2004)

Hamster,

I appreciate your response. And yes, life is about balance, but too often people forget what to balance.

In any case, I don't want to argue this issue of diet. In fact, I honestly CAN'T argue this issue, because I don't know how your bodies work. I know only myself. My diet has been very successful as compared to the typical "American" diet; I feel better, I have a leaner body mass, and my riding has improved loads.

Life is one big set of trial-and-error situations. If something isn't working for you, stop doing it! Try something else. See if it works. The worst thing is to be close-minded, especially about an issue as complex and circumstantial as human dietary needs.


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## sstaurus (Jan 18, 2004)

_Scientists_ have discovered an _alternative_ to the low carb diet, it's called *exercise!* It involves moving the extremeties in a random fashion...


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Although I have seen a lot of people lose weight with Atkins, likely due to caloric restriction, I have had to take 9 people off it due to major elevations in cholesterol.

There is some rationale behind restricting carbohydrates and choice of foods with low glycemic indices and blah blah blah, but what it mainly boils down to is that less processed foods are in general healthier and exercise is key.

Personally I require carbs to keep my energy level and brain function up. If i consume too much simple carbs (sugar) though I will crash.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*But its still a cop out to exercise period..*

One has to keep in mind that this and most MTBR forums are full of people who exercise and practice eating healthy. For them/us the absolutism of a this or that diet doesn't matter. We work our asses off unlike those that just diet. We/I eat better then most and exercise regularly. Hey if you wanna be fast you gotta be light. But in the same sentence ill say that at the same time you HAVE to aware yourself for the hard work and discipline that you endure. Theres no misconception going on here we are all to some degree athletes because riding a MTB means you have to have pretty well developed strenght to do so.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Foamy the squirrel said it first and said it best:

http://www.illwillpress.com/fatkins.html

(sensitive ears need not click through)


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## bulletbob (Apr 5, 2004)

*40 lbs for me...*



zer0 said:


> Atkins is dead. i guess he was pretty fat when he died. the wife said he was bloated from some medication. a local doctor, on tv, said he was fat for quite some time. i really wonder why he died and why was he so fat?
> 
> i think people need carbs, protein and fat. the main thing is to eat smaller portions and exercise if weight loss is the goal. i lost 20lbs last year and did not give up any of my favorite foods, including ice cream, i just ate smaller portions.
> 
> ...


I confess I did the Atkins thing and it sure as he!! worked for me just like the old guy said it would. I droppped 40 lbees fairly quickly and have managed to keep nearly all of them off. I actually lost the first 20 so fast I thought my scale was was wrong so I went by my doctors office and used theirs to confirm/deny my cheap scale reading. Obviously you can't live on the phase 1 stuff for very long but you're not supposed to anyway. I've kept my weight off by eating a more balanced diet when I can, I have a screwy schedule.

I didn't hear Atkins was overweight when he kicked off but the reason he did was because he slipped on some icy steps in NYC, cracked his dome and never came out of the coma. Allegedly...... Maybe it was a plot by the bread industry.

I think you're right though, moderation is the key but that's also something lacking these days when you can "supersize" for only a mere 59 cents more!! I'm not sure but that Al-Qaeda only has to wait a few more years for 70 percent of the US population to keel over from a heart attack after slamming all those cheeseburgers and 40 ounce sodas. Ok maybe that's a little harsh but sometimes it seems like it.


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## stephenmick (Jul 28, 2004)

*And for my first post&#8230;*

In just under one year, I've dropped 110 pounds, from 295 to 185. The first seventy came off doing the Atkins Induction, and after that I transitioned to the maintenance phase, which is basically the reduced portion size, complex carb diet that everyone here seems to advocate. Over the past year, plenty of people have tried to tell me what works and what doesnt, what kind of diet I can sustain or not. The fact is, every body is different. What works for me may not work for you. You have to find your own way, which may be somewhere in between this diet and that exercise plan.

The two most important things I've learned are to eat 5-6 small meals a day, and always listen to your body. When it tells you it wants something, or needs a day off, take it, then get back to work tomorrow.

My .02.

--Steve


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*Most impressive*

Congratulations on that impressive weight loss!
I'd imagine what gets most of us riled up isn't a particular diet, Atkins, South Beach, whatever, but rather the silliness of people who think that eating fatty steaks and low-carb candy bars is a healthy life style. Anything that you can sustain for 2 weeks, a month, whatever, to get you over the initial weight loss hump is fine. After that it's all about treating your body with more respect than you did in the past. Eat good food and move your body. Preaching to the choir...


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Spike said:


> How long did it take for you to break the addiction?
> 
> I've noticed that if I'm trying to cut back on fats or fried foods or sweets, after about a month of doing well, I really really crave whatever it is I'm trying to cut back on. I've never done a formal diet, and when I cut back, it isn't a huge change, just a reduction not elimination. But it seems my body is used to its regular diet and fights me (maybe its mental, maybe physical, probably both).
> 
> Spike


I've been eating healthy since March. No fast food, junk food, almost no processed sugars and white flour, etc. The trick for me was to switch to eating balanced meals every 3 hours. If I just tried to cut the junk out, I had cravings and it was just pure effort not to eat it. But if I eat a 300 cal meal every 3 hours, and make sure it has carbs, protein and healthy fats in it - the cravings aren't there. I don't feel deprived at all because the food I'm eating tastes delicious and I've just found healthy, natural substitutes for the junk I used to eat.

Aside from the weight loss, I've also been headache-free, my cuts and scrapes heal faster, and I haven't had that urge for a mid-afternoon nap like I used to get nearly every day.


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*Have You Actually Read The Book?*

Um... nice rant, however it seems that you've not actually read Atkins book but simply bought in to the hype of the Atkins "unrestricted, all meat" diet.

What Atkins _actually_ says is:

- Simple sugars are killing us.
- Simple carbs are broken down in to simple sugars.
- Simple sugars and carbs, unused immediately by the body are stored as fat.
- Processed foods are packed full of simple sugars and simple carbs.
- If you eat more natural foods, you'll be healthier.
- If you provide your body with the correct balance of healthy foods (including a proper balance of protein and fats), your body will metabolize more efficiently.
- If you provide your body with the correct balance of healthy foods, you'll crave less and eat in smaller portions because your body won't constantly be calling for intake due to it not receiving proper nutrients. 
- The Atkins may not work for some people and blood and urine tests are absolutely required as part of the program.

What it specifically is not:

- A gorgefest of meat.
- An unrestricted, unmonitored eat whatever the hell you want so long as there are no carbs diet.

Conclusion
Basically, the Atkins diet, if you would bother to read the book, does not seek to eliminate carbs. What he says in the book is that simple, processed sugars and simple carbs are unhealthy and are making us fat. The more processed food we take in, the more our body responds by making us hungry. Why? Because the body isn't getting what it needs, so it's asking for more (different) food.

Eating a proper, balanced diet combined with exercise is what Atkins actually promotes, not the mainline beef lard through an IV that everyone assumes. I've found that most people who claim to be on the "Atkins" diet haven't actually bothered to read his book. They've simple bought in to the eliminate carbs fad and are stuffing their faces with processed meat instead of processed carbs. They don't ask their doctors to monitor their blood and don't bother with peeing on litmus strips. They simply eat a lot of meat and claim that they're on the Atkins diet.

As many have pointed out here and Atkins addresses, too, endurance sports will require a modulation of the "basic" diet with an increase in complex carbohydrates. Without the proper balance of nutrients, our bodies fail to respond properly. In our case, that usually means we bonk.

I went on the Atkins diet over 10 years ago, well before it became popular. I was younger, in the gym a lot and basically, it worked extremely well. I did the blood checks, monitored my urine and followed the process to the letter. My meals consisted of lower fat proteins (chicken, fish) but if I had a big juicy steak I didn't stress over the "fat". Along with the meat I ate as many vegetables as I could, staying away from higher sugared veggies (corn, peas, potatos) and leaning toward those \with higher nutritional value (broccoli, peppers, etc.). My desert was fresh fruit and every once in a while, a yogurt. I drank water. When I had carbs, they were complex: Wild rice, unproccessed brown rice, whole grained breads (in moderation) and nuts. THAT is the Atkins diet. Sound familiar?

Ken


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## Ken in KC (Jan 12, 2004)

*D'oh! and Irony...*

D'oh! Looks like Richde already said the same thing I did.

The irony? Mike Ditka challenging me to take Levitra at the Women's Lounge in the ad banner to the right.

Ken


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