# Slopestyle/DH/DJ Trail in San Diego



## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Moderators: If you have it in your heart to STICKY this, I would be more than grateful.

My name is Joe and live/ride in San Diego,CA. I wanted to get this thread up and running just to get the ball rolling. I will attach pictures asap. I recently initiated the design, construction, and shreddage of an epic trail in San Diego, CA. It consists of ladder drops, head high wood kickers, a gnarly fun step up, a dirt jump line, burms, and everything else needed for a sick trail.
I'm sure your wondering why I'm divulging this much info. The trail has been SHUT DOWN by the City of San Diego. Apparently getting permission from Sempra Energy Land Managers, and the private property owners wasn't enough. We (myself and fellow builders) in our attempt to make smooth landings and transitions also managed to rack up multiple Grading Code Violations. 
The Neighborhood Code Compliance department for San Diego has now slapped us with a formal Civil Notice of Penalty. This means any "Non-Compliance" will result in a hearing followed by fines up to $250,000. 
The only option they've left us is to simply fix it. Sounds easy, but there's a catch. We HAVE to use a stamped Civil Engineer to survey the land and submit a formal set of grading plans to the city. Between the services of an engineer and the deposit to the city, we're looking at upwards of $10,000. Anywhere from 3-5k for the engineer's work, and the city deposit is 5k. 
They have refused to let us just "put it back to normal" and get the heck out. Any non-compliance from here on out can result in civil, possible criminal charges, and fines as well.
My only options seem to be 1) paying the money and getting it fixed, or 2) seeking legal council to fight it (risky when dealing with city).

If any of you fellow riders can offer assistance, I would appreciate it!!!!
-THE TRAIL IS NOT RIDEABLE. It is locked up, overgrown, and under surveillance by volunteer city snitches.
-Please submit useful and/or positive comments when adding to this thread. 

Thank you for your time. Please contact me by IM and I can give you my number.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

holy crap good luck getting that sorted out


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Try asking SDMBA for assistance of at least some contacts with the city. They might have some relationships within the various city organizations that you might be able to use to get some leniency. Sounds like their taking a hard line with you to prove a point. Maybe SDMBA can help you soften the city's stance.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

BCBlur said:


> Try asking SDMBA for assistance of at least some contacts with the city. They might have some relationships within the various city organizations that you might be able to use to get some leniency. Sounds like their taking a hard line with you to prove a point. Maybe SDMBA can help you soften the city's stance.


Thank you. That's a good idea.


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## zachdank (Jun 15, 2005)

Wow. That blows. Good luck man.


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## jamesdc (Oct 31, 2005)

That really sucks and thats a huge fine and a pain in the ass, its not too late to run to Mexico. Got any pics of the trail? Have you thought about renting a bobcat and just grading everything back to normal in a few hours and hope no one sees you. I dont see how trhe city can do this if it was on private property and you had permission.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

jamesdc said:


> That really sucks and thats a huge fine and a pain in the ass, its not too late to run to Mexico. Got any pics of the trail? Have you thought about renting a bobcat and just grading everything back to normal in a few hours and hope no one sees you. I dont see how trhe city can do this if it was on private property and you had permission.


Yea I'll post some pics later when I get home. Any activity on trail is considered "non compliance". They have prohibited us from just fixing it. It's a grading violation. The city could give a sh&$ who we asked. The other property owners were named on the notice as well. We are the "responsible" parties. And if you're wondering, they sent a spy down and snapped pictures of digging and sacrificing live cows.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

All I can say is that I'm overwhelmingly glad I don't live in California. This would never happen in NH. No offense to you CA'ers, but your state just seems to be overrun with douchebag liberals.

I wouldn't let them get the satisfaction of you submitting to their douchebag demands. It seems like if you're going to have to pony up $10k, you might as well put it towards lawyers' fees to fight the city. 

Who is the city to say what a private owner can do with their land (within reason, obviously)? Call me overly idealistic or naive, but if you've got legal permission than why can't you pile and move dirt? Are they honestly trying to tell you that they can make you pay $10,000 for piling up dirt on land that's as good as yours? Exactly what is wrong with piling and re-arranging dirt? Are we not getting the full story? 

Honestly, have city and state officials nothing better to do with themselves than hassle and fine people for piling dirt?

:nono: Californian Liberal Douchebags :nono:

That said, I'm sure every dedicated mountain biker who reads this is annoyed, or angry, and probably willing to donate some green to help you out.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

What a load of crap! Kinda makes you wonder if they are trying to make an example since this seems like they've really dug in their heels. I've never even heard of of a "grading violation", sounds like one of those useful catchall things just to bust you. After the whole Anderson business maybe they're looking to hang someone...


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

kenbentit said:


> What a load of crap! Kinda makes you wonder if they are trying to make an example since this seems like they've really dug in their heels. I've never even heard of of a "grading violation", sounds like one of those useful catchall things just to bust you. After the whole Anderson business maybe they're looking to hang someone...


Grading violation refers to construction codes. It is a violation of code to grade without a permit. It's the same situation if you were to do construction on your house/yard without the proper permits.


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## smitty22s (Aug 9, 2006)

likestocrash said:


> Grading violation refers to construction codes. It is a violation of code to grade without a permit. It's the same situation if you were to do construction on your house/yard without the proper permits.


I poked around the county website and found this about grading code/permits/etc. Looks like you would have needed a civil engineer to do it the 'right' way anyway.

http://www.sdcounty.ca.gov/dplu/bldgforms/index.html#mingrd

Man, what a pain.


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## bdamschen (Jan 4, 2006)

Totally sucks. More info on grading violations: http://www.sandiego.gov/development-services/industry/gradingqa.shtml

I can see where the law would make sense on a large scale construction site. I can also see that it's ridiculous to slap a grading violation on something as small scale as dirt jumps.

It also looks like the city wouldn't have given a crap except that someone called the number at the bottom of that page. Lame.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Maybe you could convince them that it's just a "landscaping" project (J/K). Man, I read thru some of the county regs on this; pretty dry stuff. Is there a BMX track you could contact to see what process they had to go through to build? It seems like the entire code section is geared toward "normal" stuff (driveways, pads etc..) with no real consideration for jumps or anything like that. There has to be some sort of exception to the rule.


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## dft (Apr 9, 2004)

how big are the ladder drops?


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

I know in Ventura County under the category of "Aggriculture" non habitable structures are allowed along with being allowed to move 90 yards of earth a year without a permit. Check out you agg. zones and see if it resdsembles it. You can also go over code compiances head and talk to the head of building and saftey, He may see someones acting like a grown up red headed stepchild, and work with you. 

How big are the drops?


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## cascaderider9 (Aug 24, 2007)

I grew up in Northern Mexico aka Southern California and I dont miss newcombers who want to change everything to suit themslves.

If they get a judgement then file for bankruptcy and go on.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Cascaderider, I dont think the guy was trying to change something to suit himself (assuming here), I also think your response was completely devoid of understanding. He had the permission of the land owners as well as business, moreover he also had other members helping him to make something important and significant for both the surrounding area's riders as well as himself. I would say that he and others put alot of $$$ = effort to do this and perhaps on less than the selfish motives you imagine. 

In addition, all I can say is "your city council are thoroughly divergent and floating in their own perception of reality"&#8230;I really did not want to resort to swearing, cause I would not stop in this instance.
<O
You could always use a very small portion of the money to hire a Detective/ Private Investigator to find some dirt against some of the scumbags to distract them while you take preliminary legal action against them. Along side of this, have another party that support MTB to attack on a more friendly manner by swaying their perception more professionally.<O
<O
You should also send and spread this story high and wide via news groups and try to get some attention. ANY [most[ forms of attention - **that does not lend an ear to MTB Riders being seen in a negative way that is**, will help others gain awareness just as you are doing now and create an information smear campaign against them projecting them in the most negative light possible - hence the Pi to find any skeletons.<O
<O
With these things, you can actually do a very serious number on them because I can garantee you that ALL - meaning most but perhaps not all; gov officials ARE corrupt in some way and that most have skeletons in the closet. Do the smart thing and find it...FAST!!!!<O</O
<O
But if you need help with money...if you provide key evidence and proof of this situation minus very private info (no offence of course and with all sincerity, but there are some very snazzy scams on the net these days and this just may well be one of them...? because you are a stranger to me and all), I would be glad to help out in any way I could. <O
<O
But you need to get SMART and play their own game because they know that you can do nothing at the moment than to play theirs...so, wizen up and play back. It could also be fun and a learning experience...watch fight club to give you some narly motivation. <O
<O
But I could tell you now...if that were me, I would not be bending over while Mr Corruption gave me a good roggering from behind using me as his wipping boy. I know you dont, hence the thread and by mother nature I hope you get some serious help bro to get those Mofo's...guerrilla action is needed (none-violent variety of course, intellectual attacks).<O


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

cascaderider9 said:


> I grew up in Northern Mexico aka Southern California and I dont miss newcombers who want to change everything to suit themslves.


what the hell is that supposed to mean?


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Sim2u: Thank you very much for that response. You have some really good insight and advice. Thanks for also getting my back regarding Cascade. Some people just have to get their 2 cents in.


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## SUITEDFINGERS (Aug 21, 2006)

this blows but try to get as much backing as possible. Show that you are law abiding citizens (assuming that you are) and that you were ignorant of this paticilar law (which you obviously were). I work in the civil engineering field and this is a bunch of BS. This sounds like something that's never happened before and they are setting an example. With enough community support your city council members will take your side unless they want to get voted out. Go to them and show your case. They do have a lot of say what goes on. Just don't turn this into an angry mob situation and you should be fine.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

SUITEDFINGERS said:


> this blows but try to get as much backing as possible. Show that you are law abiding citizens (assuming that you are) and that you were ignorant of this paticilar law (which you obviously were). I work in the civil engineering field and this is a bunch of BS. This sounds like something that's never happened before and they are setting an example. With enough community support your city council members will take your side unless they want to get voted out. Go to them and show your case. They do have a lot of say what goes on. Just don't turn this into an angry mob situation and you should be fine.


You're right on the money. It's never happened (they even said that), so they're sticking it to us. Thank you for the support.


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## cascaderider9 (Aug 24, 2007)

atomicAdam said:


> what the hell is that supposed to mean?


What it means is, I grew up in Leucadia/Encinitas........ In the 1970's we duck hunted in the Batiqous Lagoon and in Cardiff. Back then there were flower field in Carlsbad, there was no life east of El Camino Real (barely) you could ride moto X all over. Hell we even deer hunted La Costa way back.................and I wont even go into the surf spots and how uncrowded it wasn't.

Look at all the sprawl down there, now the traffic is backed up all the way thru Encinitas from S.D.  All the back country is developed with housing tracts and strip malls. 
Most of those people are transplants, towns with 6000 pop in the 1970's dont produce that BS sprawl. Developers did.


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## jahguideini (Jan 9, 2008)

cascaderider9 said:


> What it means is, I grew up in Leucadia/Encinitas........ In the 1970's we duck hunted in the Batiqous Lagoon and in Cardiff. Back then there were flower field in Carlsbad, there was no life east of El Camino Real (barely) you could ride moto X all over. Hell we even deer hunted La Costa way back.................and I wont even go into the surf spots and how uncrowded it wasn't.
> 
> Look at all the sprawl down there, now the traffic is backed up all the way thru Encinitas from S.D.  All the back country is developed with housing tracts and strip malls.
> Most of those people are transplants, towns with 6000 pop in the 1970's dont produce that BS sprawl. Developers did.


I remember those days. Go back to where you came from people!


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## atomicAdam (Sep 19, 2005)

cascaderider9 said:


> What it means is, I grew up in Leucadia/Encinitas........ In the 1970's we duck hunted in the Batiqous Lagoon and in Cardiff. Back then there were flower field in Carlsbad, there was no life east of El Camino Real (barely) you could ride moto X all over. Hell we even deer hunted La Costa way back.................and I wont even go into the surf spots and how uncrowded it wasn't.
> 
> Look at all the sprawl down there, now the traffic is backed up all the way thru Encinitas from S.D.  All the back country is developed with housing tracts and strip malls.
> Most of those people are transplants, towns with 6000 pop in the 1970's dont produce that BS sprawl. Developers did.


the best population control is making sure your future always ends up in the palm of you hand. somebody call the WAAAAHbulance.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

Where are the pictures?


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*more to come: trail and riding*



dowst said:


> Where are the pictures?


I'll try to put a few up each day. A few concussons, a lot of bruises, and a sponsorship were pulled out of this trail. That nasty invert/table (on an 8" Kona) is from Isaac Wood...dude kills it on a regular basis.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

Still trying to see the connection between dirt jumps and urban sprawl...:skep:


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

I don't know if this is naive of me to say this but have you tried getting IMBA involved?


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*I'll keep posting more pics to keep it interesting...*



kenbentit said:


> Still trying to see the connection between dirt jumps and urban sprawl...:skep:


I have tons of riding pics: tables, b-flips, supers, suicides...u name it coming soon to forum near you.


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## pinknugget (Jan 21, 2007)

Enough already, show us the damn trail! No more posts without pics or I declare shinanigans.


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## balfabiker22 (Feb 26, 2006)

PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

plz


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## fisherNM (Jul 3, 2008)

*It is easy to blame others for your ignorance.*

I think you are under a few misconceptions.

1) The city has every right to protect the people that live in the area. Changes to the grade can affect the water flow for lands outside of your construction project. There have been enough instances of unintended consequences throughout the US that a grading plan should be expected in ANY construction project.

2) The estimate of 3-5k for an Engineer is probably low, WAY LOW. If you need a survey to complete the grading plan, then you will need a survey crew, which depending on the area can cost 10-20k for just the survey. Then, you will need an Engineer. Plans need to drawn up (read requires an Engineer as well as a drafter) and reviewed by government agencies (read production of plans and letters as well as potential changes based on review comments). An Engineer will likely change out at $100/hr or more plus the additional worker costs. I wouldn't be surprised to see costs for the Engineering running at 10k or more.

3) If you are disturbing more than an acre (including space for construction outside of any items erected), then you will need a SWPPP (Stormwater Pollution Prevention Plan). If you do not prepare one, you run the risk of bring in the EPA to fine you above and beyond what the City of San Diego will do. Implementation and creation of an SWPPP can run as much as 10k or more depending on a range of factors. It is possible to get away with not having an SWPPP in NM, but I would surprised if this was possible now with San Diego aware of your project.

You are looking at 20-40k just to get the planning done, then you can talk about what it will cost to build it (even if you are building it yourself).

You best bets will be to try to find bike friendly Engineers and Surveyors. Otherwise, you are likely in way over your head here.

As for the guy complaining about liberals, you are the one showing your douchebaggery. The rules that are in place are there to protect other landowners. Would you really like to have a house in the area that is damaged by an unregulated construction project? Would you be happy to pay for thousands of dollars worth of damage (potentially) because some cyclists wanted to create a playground? I tend to doubt it. Maybe you should think about other people before ranting about how unfair things are.


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## mild beast (Jan 15, 2008)

dowst said:


> ...
> :nono: Californian Liberal Douchebags :nono:
> ....


yes. Cranston, Feinstein, Boxer... just restricting and shutting off access to .. to EVERYTHING they can. it's sick. and their brain dead bleeding heart "vote on emotion and ignorance" constituents gobble it up like mana. disgusting.

fisherNM.. man, i really hate seeing some fng jump in on with his a$$ spewing flames of ignorance. but that is just what you did. stupid.

do you know what the trail looks like? NO. is it possible that trail wouldn't create the mutlitudes of natural disasters, plagues, locusts, volcanic eruptions that you invision? maybe it's just a sweet single track with some gap jumps and wooden structures? maybe?

U R A stupid FF just running his a$$mouth.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

pinknugget said:


> Enough already, show us the damn trail! No more posts without pics or I declare shinanigans.


Sorry dude...had to pull the pics. Was gonna post more, but didn't think it was a great idea.


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## balfabiker22 (Feb 26, 2006)

likestocrash said:


> Sorry dude...had to pull the pics. Was gonna post more, but didn't think it was a great idea.


Wimp


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## pinknugget (Jan 21, 2007)

likestocrash said:


> Sorry dude...had to pull the pics. Was gonna post more, but didn't think it was a great idea.


Yeah, that's probably the best decision. Your trail sounds like its pretty sick, and selfishly, I just wanted to see your creation. I really I hope you can work this out, I can't imagine what I would do if I were in your situation. Best of luck stickin it to the man!


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## nbuck9 (Nov 8, 2005)

*some more siiiick jumps bra*

Me and a bunch of my sponsored friends built some giant kickers in a mysto spot "in east county". I will "post pictures when I get home from from work." My homeboy T-Pimp pulled a double flip-whip just the other day and Scooby just broke his tibia when he came up short on our loop to 80-foot booter. This weekend, in celebration of the 4th, I am going to attempt to do a backflip over the gap in my orange 69' Dodge Charger.

Enough with this man, post the pics, "when I get home from work" was like 2 days ago!


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## sdmoondogg (Apr 8, 2008)

likestocrash-

Check your PM. I am a civil engineer in north county and may be able to help you out.


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## pinknugget (Jan 21, 2007)

FisherNM- I am interested in knowing how you are affiliated with this issue. It seems like you are well versed on California grading regulations and created an account just to post on this thread. I understand and agree with everything you are saying, but if $50k to plan a little bike park doesn't sound absurd to you, than you my friend are quite jaded. I'm curious what the drainage situation is, and if there have been any catastrophic problems with run off.


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

Way to step up and offer to help the guy out *sdmoondog* That may help save some money but the county is still gonna kick him in the bells with permit fee's and possibly require a soils report if they really are trying to bend him over. Those fees cover a couple of inspections, some plan checkers time in building and safety reviewing the plan, both are good a serve a purpose but the planning boards time to look at all this after it meets requirements to say let us think about it is what's annoying about the process. My guess is they'll say no because the upgrades don't increase property value and generate more taxes. Good luck to you guys.


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## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

fisherNM said:


> I think you are under a few misconceptions.
> 
> 1) The city has every right to protect the people that live in the area. Changes to the grade can affect the water flow for lands outside of your construction project. There have been enough instances of unintended consequences throughout the US that a grading plan should be expected in ANY construction project.
> 
> ...


This forum is for people who love downhill mountain biking and want to support it. This thread's sole purpose is to support a certain member of the community who is facing legal problems because of his love for DH/FR mountain biking.

Nobody here gives a sh*t about you're cute little numbered list intended to inform us all about the "misconceptions" that we all must be under. If you're not here to help or support, then get the f*ck out, douchebag liberal.


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## vwolf (Jun 9, 2004)

Dude I'm from San Diego ... (chula vista ).... and know that trail access is a serious issue that we need to bring positive attention to. I want to help so let me know of any plans or meetings you have. In the mean time I will think of stuff that might help. My friend setup a website a while ago to bring attention to a court case, she got really good feedback and the DA had to back off, that might be a good idea. 
Also talk to someone on the UT, KUSI (Turko files...jajaj...I can't stand that guy but he might be useful), any other media outlets that can bring attention not just to this case but to the issue at large. Judging by the way things are done in SD this may take a while so it's important to not give up.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

++++1

Wow...there really are some real lame people in this world who have seriously succombed to the mass insanity :skep: that is our modern day society...welcome to the wicked.:madman: 

I agree with what fisherNM said IF only from a legal and absurd technical POV, but I do NOT agree with how he is doing it nor the reason behind it. You would think that IF he is affiliated with the situation that he would OFFER some Fckuing help and not just rant about the douchebag liberal techno-bable that some on here actually DO KNOW about (not me though) and whome have already offered to help this guy.

So allow me to digress, if you are not here to help this guy out with your obvious related talents and ACT LIKE A HUMAN and not some greedy annal retentive [email protected] who likes to re-enact the 3rd march over some chap who is pationate about his sport, then as Dowst has so elloquently place hi 2cc worth and to which I whole heartedly aggree with...FCKU OFF.........please!!!! 



dowst said:


> This forum if for people who love downhill mountain biking and want to support it. This thread's sole purpose is to support a certain member of the community who is facing legal problems because of his love for DH/FR mountain biking.
> 
> Nobody here gives a sh*t about you're cute little numbered list intended to inform us all about the "misconceptions" that we all must be under. If you're not here to help or support, then get the f*ck out, douchebag liberal.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Thank you again for all the support. I really appreciate the comments/posts. I will let you know the outcome for sure. The PMs are helping a ton.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

god i thought the days when they just came and bulldozed what had taken years to put up were crazy. slapping on fee after fee for privately owned land....kinda makes me want to move the hell out of CA. I grew up here, and love it here, but fyck this is crazy


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## coghi (Jan 5, 2007)

pinknugget said:


> FisherNM- I am interested in knowing how you are affiliated with this issue. It seems like you are well versed on California grading regulations and created an account just to post on this thread. I understand and agree with everything you are saying, but if $50k to plan a little bike park doesn't sound absurd to you, than you my friend are quite jaded. I'm curious what the drainage situation is, and if there have been any catastrophic problems with run off.


 well you know bad drainage can cuase this.. a small jump could bring an entire mountain down....


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## pinknugget (Jan 21, 2007)

Just to be clear, I fully support likestocrash and hope that he is able to get this resolved and salvage his bike park. I was merely stating that grading regulations are there for a reason, but clearly this is an example of those regulations being misapplied. Calling people liberal douche bags really says nothing except that you like to watch South Park. Drainage can be a problem even on small trails, from his description this is not a small trail. I was merely inquiring as to whether or not there were any serious issues without drainage, but thanks for showing what the possible affects of a poorly drained, small jump. I was not aware of that. I guess I should be more careful when I am digging. I think it is awesome that some guys are stepping up to offer their services, and hope that more will do the same.


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2007)

mild beast said:


> yes. Cranston, Feinstein, Boxer... just restricting and shutting off access to .. to EVERYTHING they can. it's sick. and their brain dead bleeding heart "vote on emotion and ignorance" constituents gobble it up like mana. disgusting.
> 
> fisherNM.. man, i really hate seeing some fng jump in on with his a$$ spewing flames of ignorance. but that is just what you did. stupid.
> 
> ...


i dont get what you just wrote?


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2007)

fisherNM said:


> I think you are under a few misconceptions.
> 
> As for the guy complaining about liberals, you are the one showing your douchebaggery. The rules that are in place are there to protect other landowners. Would you really like to have a house in the area that is damaged by an unregulated construction project? Would you be happy to pay for thousands of dollars worth of damage (potentially) because some cyclists wanted to create a playground? I tend to doubt it. Maybe you should think about other people before ranting about how unfair things are.


you, sir, are complaining too much about a stupid little problem like all liberals

you people just don't get the "bigger picture" about life do you?

end rant


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2007)

its private owned land ....i would keep riding the place, and tell people to **** off, unless of course , you gave some officials your name and address:madman: 

..and ask the people issuing you all the papers if they see, and to clearly show you, any fVcking places that could cause harm to residents

...gad, this thread is pissing me off

i hate this type of liberalism with a passion...stupid officials that just don't get the bigger picture

i'm sure this is more of a money/power issue that a sincere intent to save peopel homes and stuff

what would happen if you just left the land the way it was?....not tear anything down, or go on it..just leave it


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## Scarpa (Aug 16, 2005)

LOL @ the "douchebag liberal" comments. San Diego is run by conservative, wealthy developers and their corrupt government is who is screwing this guy.

This ain't Marin county.


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## Mr. Blonde (May 18, 2008)

All you morons that are saying: "liberal this, conservative that" are this guy's real problem. Why is everyone so concerned with trying to define one side as right and just and the other as wrong and evil? That's all politics has become lately. Everyone's too busy bashing the opposition to realize that both sides have lots of good points. I hope all the real douchebags with that narrow view of the world just drop dead right now. To quote the great Randy Pausch "Life is ten percent white, ten percent black, and eighty percent grey." On that note; knowing very little about this guy's situation, I'm willing to bet this isn't really so clear cut. In our world this guy is a saint. He's the trail fairy that gives us the great spots. He got permission from the land owner. It appears he went thru all the right channels. Then there's the law. The law is not right all the time. Not by a long shot. It is the law though. The law is often applied to situations it was never intended for. If it can be interpreted literally as being applicable to that situation then it is the guideline that must be followed. That's what lawyers do. They argue whether the law being used is applicable to the situation in the way it was interpreted. So in someone's world he is wrong. I'm going to continue to be of the belief that most people are good and no one is giving this guy $hit just for their amusement. I choose to believe that the people he has to fight truly believe that they are doing the right thing.

To the OP: If you set up some paypal account or some other fund and have some legitimate affiliation with a recognized advocacy group I will gladly contribute money to help you right this legal injustice.


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## [email protected] (May 9, 2007)

Mr. Blonde said:


> All you morons that are saying: "liberal this, conservative that" are this guy's real problem. Why is everyone so concerned with trying to define one side as right and just and the other as wrong and evil? That's all politics has become lately. Everyone's too busy bashing the opposition to realize that both sides have lots of good points. I hope all the real douchebags with that narrow view of the world just drop dead right now. To quote the great Randy Pausch "Life is ten percent white, ten percent black, and eighty percent grey." On that note; knowing very little about this guy's situation, I'm willing to bet this isn't really so clear cut. In our world this guy is a saint. He's the trail fairy that gives us the great spots. He got permission from the land owner. It appears he went thru all the right channels. Then there's the law. The law is not right all the time. Not by a long shot. It is the law though. The law is often applied to situations it was never intended for. If it can be interpreted literally as being applicable to that situation then it is the guideline that must be followed. That's what lawyers do. They argue whether the law being used is applicable to the situation in the way it was interpreted. So in someone's world he is wrong. I'm going to continue to be of the belief that most people are good and no one is giving this guy $hit just for their amusement. I choose to believe that the people he has to fight truly believe that they are doing the right thing.
> 
> To the OP: If you set up some paypal account or some other fund and have some legitimate affiliation with a recognized advocacy group I will gladly contribute money to help you right this legal injustice.


Funny you wrote that, I was just about to write something like that where we need a balance of (almost) everything in life. Plus, we probably don't know the "full" story here. Politics are so frustrating. I quit.

Good luck with everything though.:thumbsup:


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

+1 on the first comment - to a CERTAIN degree!!!!

And +2 on the second...I also would donate if there was an official account/ affiliation as such.

Oh...the Randy Pausch quote I thought interesting but a better suit could have been applied to better define this situation.:thumbsup:



Mr. Blonde said:


> All you morons that are saying: "liberal this, conservative that" are this guy's real problem. Why is everyone so concerned with trying to define one side as right and just and the other as wrong and evil? That's all politics has become lately. Everyone's too busy bashing the opposition to realize that both sides have lots of good points. I hope all the real douchebags with that narrow view of the world just drop dead right now. To quote the great Randy Pausch "Life is ten percent white, ten percent black, and eighty percent grey." On that note; knowing very little about this guy's situation, I'm willing to bet this isn't really so clear cut. In our world this guy is a saint. He's the trail fairy that gives us the great spots. He got permission from the land owner. It appears he went thru all the right channels. Then there's the law. The law is not right all the time. Not by a long shot. It is the law though. The law is often applied to situations it was never intended for. If it can be interpreted literally as being applicable to that situation then it is the guideline that must be followed. That's what lawyers do. They argue whether the law being used is applicable to the situation in the way it was interpreted. So in someone's world he is wrong. I'm going to continue to be of the belief that most people are good and no one is giving this guy $hit just for their amusement. I choose to believe that the people he has to fight truly believe that they are doing the right thing.
> 
> To the OP: If you set up some paypal account or some other fund and have some legitimate affiliation with a recognized advocacy group I will gladly contribute money to help you right this legal injustice.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

The really funny thing is that all that will come of this is that there's no fkn way that anyone in the San Diego mtb community is going to get permission to build trails any more. People will sneak off into the hills armed with shovels, build whatever they want, and hope the Man doesn't knock it down. 

The city is making an example of the poor guy, but it sure isn't gonna stop trail builders. 



If the city had made some sort of attempt to work with the builder, or even 'you need to take that down, it violates grading blahblah, 30 days to comply...' maybe the message would be different.

Idiots.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

basically I would try and get the newspaper out there to do a story....I would talk to the local television news station too. Anything to get your side of the story out and get more people aware of what going on including more bikers.

I also would talk with the Blackrock organisation in oregon and see how they got the oregon forrest dept to work with them without permits to build great bike trails

http://www.brmba.org/


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## Rogue Rider x (Mar 8, 2008)

Likestocrash:

This is a simple [yet possibly quite expensive] exercise in learning to follow the rules. You made a good effort at the start [talking to people and getting permission], but now you are on the radar of the bureaucrats and now NEED to follow the written rules. Intentions matter not.

So if you are serious:

1. I have access to engineers
2. I have access to heavy equipment [Ramona]
3. I have access to [former] SD County plan checkers
4. I have access to several land developers [San Marcos, Ramona]
5. I have access to general contractors

Everyone owes eveyone favors, so all of the above will donate time, material and equipment [translating into mucho $$] under the right circumstances. HOWEVER, if you want to cut corners, not follow the rules, be a renegade, bash the system, or if you lack a professional side [all of which I have no idea if they apply to you or not], dont bother contacting me.

BUT, if you want to do it right, which means a monumental effort organizing several different groups, raising funds, securing insurance, following timelines, and have plenty of time to dedicate to something that you and others will enjoy, lets keep talking.

I encourage you to focus on your goals and disregard the negative speak in these threads.

Anything is possible: 
http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2157609/
http://homeboyski.com/2008/06/27/red-bull-dirt-half-pipe/

Props to the Mods who understand the power of this forum and made this a sticky.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Wow...that is fantastic news there Rogue Rider x and I sincerely commend you on your effort and advice. I can only hope that the chap who started the thread is very much interested in your offer because if I were he, I know I would be there ready to do the what needs to be done to make this realized.

Excellent, I just wish there were more people like you in the world because it would be a far better place.

I also agree with what you have said more than you know.:thumbsup:



Rogue Rider x said:


> Likestocrash:
> 
> This is a simple [yet possibly quite expensive] exercise in learning to follow the rules. You made a good effort at the start [talking to people and getting permission], but now you are on the radar of the bureaucrats and now NEED to follow the written rules. Intentions matter not.
> 
> ...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Rogue Rider x said:


> Likestocrash:
> 
> This is a simple [yet possibly quite expensive] exercise in learning to follow the rules. You made a good effort at the start [talking to people and getting permission], but now you are on the radar of the bureaucrats and now NEED to follow the written rules. Intentions matter not.
> 
> ...


hella cool


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Rogue Rider x said:


> Likestocrash:
> 
> This is a simple [yet possibly quite expensive] exercise in learning to follow the rules. You made a good effort at the start [talking to people and getting permission], but now you are on the radar of the bureaucrats and now NEED to follow the written rules. Intentions matter not.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the support. Although I'm well underway with this process, I have a feeling we'll be talking soon. I'm attending a SDMBA meeting tonight to present the situation. Hopefully as a result we'll be able to get the help needed towards the bottom line of the project.

I'm head high in sh*t right now. When I can breathe a little and see the light, I'll update everybody with progress, pictures, etc...

Thanks again.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

likestocrash said:


> I'm head high in sh*t right now. When I can breathe a little and see the light, I'll update everybody with progress, pictures, etc....


start getting help right now......you might save yourself a lot of times because people know the right way to do stuff and you will spend the right time on that instead of wasting time with stupid stuff.....bottom line use the experiences of others


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## JMH (Feb 23, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> start getting help right now......you might save yourself a lot of times because people know the right way to do stuff and you will spend the right time on that instead of wasting time with stupid stuff.....bottom line use the experiences of others


Bob makes an excellent point... It sucks that you got stuck with this mess, but it sounds like you might have some support from the community to get it turned into something MUCH cooler! Good luck.

JMH


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

+1

Or you also may end up loosing more than your willing to give up.



SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> start getting help right now......you might save yourself a lot of times because people know the right way to do stuff and you will spend the right time on that instead of wasting time with stupid stuff.....bottom line use the experiences of others


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## Supple1 (Jun 25, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> start getting help right now......you might save yourself a lot of times because people know the right way to do stuff and you will spend the right time on that instead of wasting time with stupid stuff.....bottom line use the experiences of others


+2


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## Jared5755 (Aug 10, 2006)

Rogue Rider x said:


> Likestocrash:
> 
> This is a simple [yet possibly quite expensive] exercise in learning to follow the rules. You made a good effort at the start [talking to people and getting permission], but now you are on the radar of the bureaucrats and now NEED to follow the written rules. Intentions matter not.
> 
> ...


Not to be a downer, but just to let you know. It's actually against the NSPE (engineering society) code of ethics for an Professional Engineer to work for free. There are rare exceptions and I'm no expert on the code, but an engineer could lose a license because of it. Even very steep discounts are risky. Hopefully your pals know some way around that.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

I think when it comes to charity (official) that may be the exception...(?)


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## FROSTYBREWS (May 21, 2008)

Rogue Rider x said:


> Likestocrash:
> 
> This is a simple [yet possibly quite expensive] exercise in learning to follow the rules. You made a good effort at the start [talking to people and getting permission], but now you are on the radar of the bureaucrats and now NEED to follow the written rules. Intentions matter not.
> 
> ...


ya know hes right guys i work in construction at the moment and for land development even at my current job site at WTC any little or large movement of land has to be accounted and cross cheaked or it can lead to bigger problems in the future but it does sound like the gov in you neighborhood is being over zealous in their spying and yada yada. Your going to HAVE to spend the money consider a loan and consider 
Rogue Rider x's offer.

and good lucky my friend:thumbsup:


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## FROSTYBREWS (May 21, 2008)

and post pics gotta know this i legit at least post a pic of the google maps location people need to see that your for realy and not scam


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Yes that what I asked previously. It actually would be more beneficial for him to do so infact.



FROSTYBREWS said:


> and post pics gotta know this i legit at least post a pic of the google maps location people need to see that your for realy and not scam


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

FROSTYBREWS said:


> and post pics gotta know this i legit at least post a pic of the google maps location people need to see that your for realy and not scam


Greetings. I come from a country far away. I'm currently using an agent in the US to conduct business. I'm sending you a check for $6,000 now. Please ship the bike as soon as possible. 

I'm sorry that you might be inclined to think it's all a scam. However, there's no reason to prove it's legitimacy by posting pictures...especially to someone that's just curious. As I said before, when I get through this grueling process, I'll re-post pics.

Thank you to all the supporters. And a special thanks to the individuals that have gone out of their ways to not only contact me, but follow up as well. I'm still currently working with those riders to help reduce the bottom line.


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

More to the point that it would have been more beneficial mate...people could relate to the situation MORE with MORE information.

I used more alot...

Of course from your perception it is not a scam, but from a complete and total stranger ON THE INTERNET mind you, it could easily be as there are SO many scammers trying to pry a buck away from sincere people who are just trying to help.

But anyway...all is good so I have been told, take care and good luck.


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## FROSTYBREWS (May 21, 2008)

likestocrash said:


> Greetings. I come from a country far away. I'm currently using an agent in the US to conduct business. I'm sending you a check for $6,000 now. Please ship the bike as soon as possible.
> 
> I'm sorry that you might be inclined to think it's all a scam. However, there's no reason to prove it's legitimacy by posting pictures...especially to someone that's just curious. As I said before, when I get through this grueling process, I'll re-post pics.
> 
> Thank you to all the supporters. And a special thanks to the individuals that have gone out of their ways to not only contact me, but follow up as well. I'm still currently working with those riders to help reduce the bottom line.


its not hard to post pics so dont be an ******* you came to this site asking for help more people would be inclined to help you if you posted pics

i am not inclined to think anything click a few buttons post a few pics its not hard. Dont be a jerk where here to help


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

what help are you here to give frostybrews? just out of curiosity? you sound a bit like a 15 year old from your typing, I'm wondering what you know in the way of zoning laws and land management that can be useful in this situation. He's not asking for joe shmoe to give him a freebie, he's asking for people who are around the area who can actually help him out. The people who can actually help him out are probably locals, and its not real difficult to look into it and find out if he is "for realz" 

I don't think posting pics is gonna help anything other then your curiosity.


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## FROSTYBREWS (May 21, 2008)

William42 said:


> what help are you here to give frostybrews? just out of curiosity? you sound a bit like a 15 year old from your typing, I'm wondering what you know in the way of zoning laws and land management that can be useful in this situation. He's not asking for joe shmoe to give him a freebie, he's asking for people who are around the area who can actually help him out. The people who can actually help him out are probably locals, and its not real difficult to look into it and find out if he is "for realz"
> 
> I don't think posting pics is gonna help anything other then your curiosity.


I WORK IN CONSTRUCTION that might mean i know allitle bit about what i am talking about i am giving advice to the man if he wants help from people, people like to know their not wasting their time.

(construction management i might add)

iam the 15 yr old you the one trying to talk down to people on the internet


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

sdmoondogg said:


> likestocrash-
> 
> Check your PM. I am a civil engineer in north county and may be able to help you out.





Rogue Rider x said:


> ]
> BUT, if you want to do it right, which means a monumental effort organizing several different groups, raising funds, securing insurance, following timelines, and have plenty of time to dedicate to something that you and others will enjoy, lets keep talking.


That rocks. This is the redeeming value of an open forum like MTBR. I love you guys. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Supple1 (Jun 25, 2008)

Any news on this? How is it going?


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Supple1 said:


> Any news on this? How is it going?


Recently met with biologist. Per bio report and engineer, remediation plan will be drawn up. Hopefully submit soon. I haven't raised a single dime in my favor.


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## Supple1 (Jun 25, 2008)

likestocrash said:


> Recently met with biologist. Per bio report and engineer, remediation plan will be drawn up. Hopefully submit soon. I haven't raised a single dime in my favor.


Good to hear you are making some progress. Please keep us updated.

As for the raising money, that is tuff. Honestly with the economy people hold onto there money a lot tighter, but also people want to put it to a cause they will win. Atleast the way it has been presented so far in this thread it seems possible, but not probable. I hope I am wrong though and I hope you can pull this off!


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## sjordan72 (Jan 16, 2005)

*Trail*

Joe, I am really sorry to hear that the City is hassling you like that. And to everyone else, I have seen the trail and used to ride it before it became the amazing trail it is today. I am not kidding. It is a truly amazing piece of work. We need to get behind this.

Joe, I'll call you tomorrow. I have some ideas.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

sjordan72 said:


> Joe, I am really sorry to hear that the City is hassling you like that. And to everyone else, I have seen the trail and used to ride it before it became the amazing trail it is today. I am not kidding. It is a truly amazing piece of work. We need to get behind this.
> 
> Joe, I'll call you tomorrow. I have some ideas.


Thank you. Still no word from Civil Engineer. It's very unique situation in his eyes, so I'm not surprised it's taking longer then normal to submit to city.

Thanks again for support.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*Progress*



likestocrash said:


> Thank you. Still no word from Civil Engineer. It's very unique situation in his eyes, so I'm not surprised it's taking longer then normal to submit to city.
> 
> Thanks again for support.


Engineer recently informed me that he will be submitting plans next week. Mods, again thank you for keeping this thread alive. When I see some more activity, it should get interesting once again.


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## briank10 (Sep 20, 2007)

BEST OF LUCK! I hope it all works out for you.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*Update*

I thought the submittal process was simple...wrong.  In order to save billable engineering hours, I'll be dealing with San Diego Development Department's formal submittal process. As soon as I have the $2100 deposit and all the applications complete, I'll be handing over the plans to review department (four pages of "Remediation Plans"). 
I wouldn't wish this fiascoe on my worst enemy. Kids, remember keep building trails just don't get caught. 
Mods again thank you. Althought this process is long, grueling and very stressful, it's a good chunk of reality.


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## KLittle123 (Oct 27, 2007)

Seriously, something sounds a bit off.


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## sjordan72 (Jan 16, 2005)

I suggest we hold a fundraiser to help this process out. He is putting a lot of his own cash out there to get this done legally, which many of us can learn from. Maybe a night at a local pub or watering hole to get it going? The only problem I see is that the location has to remain somewhat secret, or the neighbors will freak. Anyone have ideas? I will be at the SDMBA event at Cal Coast Bikes on November 13th as I have some photos to enter. Maybe we can form a small discussion group there. I have some pics of the trail that with permission I can bring along.


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## levee67 (May 13, 2004)

Too bad we couldn't buy some type of insurance that would cover you in case of liability.

But more realistically, I'd give a dollar to help out. Would be simple to set up with PayPal. If enough of us donated a dollar, I think it would make a difference.

That's if the OP wanted monetary assistance.

damon


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

I'm a bit strapped for cash, but I could probably kick a dollar or two your way.

Might consider a fundraiser


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*Thank you*



William42 said:


> I'm a bit strapped for cash, but I could probably kick a dollar or two your way.
> 
> Might consider a fundraiser


Thank you for your consideration. As far as the fundraiser goes, there has been a few minor attmpts to get one together. 
At one point SDMBA had intentions of helping out. However, it is in their best interest to not contribute directly to an individual responsible for an "illegal" trail. They have an organization and issues to protect/support, and I don't think illegitimate trails is one of them. 
I operate two bars in downtown San Diego which have been obvious candidates for a fundraiser as well. 
My biggest challenge is the fact that I'm basically dealing with this issue by myself. It started out with three guys. I've had to take an "active" management role in the entire process. With my job, that leaves me very little time to be out begging for money.

Right now the plans that I had produced are sitting in front of three departments that could give a rat's ass how screwed up the whole fiasco is. It is up to me to keep Code Compliance, City Engineer, Plan Reveiwers, Landscape, Biologist, Storwater, and any other City depatment all in contact and "on the same page" so I don't get the shaft. 
My current bill is up to $5600. That's $3500 for the engineer/biologist, and $2100 to the city for plan review deposit. This thing could easily it 8k.
If you really want to help, show up at CalCoast bikes on Adams Ave in San Diego next Thursday @ 7pm. I'll be presenting my sob story and sharing some pictures.

Thank you for the support


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## Jared5755 (Aug 10, 2006)

likestocrash said:


> Right now the plans that I had produced are sitting in front of three departments that could give a rat's ass how screwed up the whole fiasco is. It is up to me to keep Code Compliance, City Engineer, Plan Reveiwers, Landscape, Biologist, Storwater, and any other City depatment all in contact and "on the same page" so I don't get the shaft.
> My current bill is up to $5600. That's $3500 for the engineer/biologist, and $2100 to the city for plan review deposit. This thing could easily it 8k.
> If you really want to help, show up at CalCoast bikes on Adams Ave in San Diego next Thursday @ 7pm. I'll be presenting my sob story and sharing some pictures.
> 
> Thank you for the support


What about posting up a PayPal address? I'd send a little something and I'm sure many others will. It will add up quickly.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

Just out of curiousity, how'd you get it surveyed?
What'd it cost?
I'm a licensed surveyor in CO, and while there's not much I can do for ya long distance, I can answer questions.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

dbabuser said:


> Just out of curiousity, how'd you get it surveyed?
> What'd it cost?
> I'm a licensed surveyor in CO, and while there's not much I can do for ya long distance, I can answer questions.


No topo survey required (thank God). Bio review was a grand.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*Update*



likestocrash said:


> Moderators: If you have it in your heart to STICKY this, I would be more than grateful.
> 
> My name is Joe and live/ride in San Diego,CA. I wanted to get this thread up and running just to get the ball rolling. I will attach pictures asap. I recently initiated the design, construction, and shreddage of an epic trail in San Diego, CA. It consists of ladder drops, head high wood kickers, a gnarly fun step up, a dirt jump line, burms, and everything else needed for a sick trail.
> I'm sure your wondering why I'm divulging this much info. The trail has been SHUT DOWN by the City of San Diego. Apparently getting permission from Sempra Energy Land Managers, and the private property owners wasn't enough. We (myself and fellow builders) in our attempt to make smooth landings and transitions also managed to rack up multiple Grading Code Violations.
> ...


Update: 12/2/08 - City of San Diego Development Department is reviewing plans. They sent back their first set of comments. I actually had to draw detailed sketches of our exact method of remediation for each stunt/area. My engineer will draft that up into their language and submit as soon as possible.


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## Guest (Dec 11, 2008)

*Copy of documentation please?*

Crash, sorry for your time and expense, but this is a a helpful example for others education on what to do and not to do.

To that end, it would be helpful to others out here to see something on paper from the City. 
The letter you referred to citing the process for the fix, and an estimate on letterhead for the cost of remediation, as a pdf, would probably help your credibility in raising money.

Who did you talk to at SDMBA, by the way?

Skeej out.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Skeej said:


> ...To that end, it would be helpful to others out here to see something on paper from the City.
> The letter you referred to citing the process for the fix, and an estimate on letterhead for the cost of remediation, as a pdf, would probably help your credibility in raising money...


as a personal friend of joe, i can vouch that this whole deal is the 100% brutal truth...


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Skeej said:


> Crash, sorry for your time and expense, but this is a a helpful example for others education on what to do and not to do.
> 
> To that end, it would be helpful to others out here to see something on paper from the City.
> The letter you referred to citing the process for the fix, and an estimate on letterhead for the cost of remediation, as a pdf, would probably help your credibility in raising money.
> ...


Yes, scanning all pertinent documents and posting them on this site would indeed solidify it's legitimacy. However there has been no incentive in "proving" anything on this forum. I have a separate link and/or account that I've been working on which will contain all applicable material. 
And yes SDMBA is well aware of my situation. A couple of the members have been very helpful. They also have to protect their liability when dealing with this type of sensitive situation. It's a bit of conflict of interests for them to represent someone who built an "illegal" trail. 
I appreciate your concern on this matter.


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## redriderbb (Aug 30, 2005)

*Man this does suck.*

Call Scott Linnenburger at IMBA. He is a Sage at fixing problem situations. Good luck.

Will your mitigation efforts allow the trail to be ridden afterward or is the mitigation simply reclaiming the existing lands to "natural topography?" Seems like you are deep on the inside and might be able to make something Sweet and Tangy out of an otherwise Tart situation.

Check the website and send me an email if you wanna chat.

Ben


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

redriderbb said:


> Call Scott Linnenburger at IMBA. He is a Sage at fixing problem situations. Good luck.
> 
> Will your mitigation efforts allow the trail to be ridden afterward or is the mitigation simply reclaiming the existing lands to "natural topography?" Seems like you are deep on the inside and might be able to make something Sweet and Tangy out of an otherwise Tart situation.
> 
> ...


SDMBA is a direct affiliate with IMBA. I've spent a little bit of time with them over the past few months. An advocacy organization, although very capable and persuasive would only stir the pot putting my own livelihood in jeopardy. Most people cannot comprehend the severity of the process that I've been put in (it's understood based on the fact that I've posted a limited amount of material to the public). I appreciate your concern. However, my only goal right now is getting my name clear of any liability. The City, State, along with a sh*t load of organizations (Army Core of Engineers, Environmental, Riparian, Parks/Rec, etc... could all have my nuts in a vice for this. This could turn into a huge amount of debt and stress if not handled correctly.

I simply cant' afford to "fight" it. If an organization could truly get me out of this, they would have stepped up to the plate and at least contacted me by now. So far, everybody has looked at this and just said good luck.

Thanks again.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

likestocrash said:


> SDMBA is a direct affiliate with IMBA. I've spent a little bit of time with them over the past few months. An advocacy organization, although very capable and persuasive would only stir the pot putting my own livelihood in jeopardy. Most people cannot comprehend the severity of the process that I've been put in (it's understood based on the fact that I've posted a limited amount of material to the public). I appreciate your concern. However, my only goal right now is getting my name clear of any liability. The City, State, along with a sh*t load of organizations (Army Core of Engineers, Environmental, Riparian, Parks/Rec, etc... could all have my nuts in a vice for this. This could turn into a huge amount of debt and stress if not handled correctly.
> 
> I simply cant' afford to "fight" it. If an organization could truly get me out of this, they would have stepped up to the plate and at least contacted me by now. So far, everybody has looked at this and just said good luck.
> 
> Thanks again.


Set up a paypal fundraiser right now. With the current holiday "feel good" vibe its gonna be alot easier to generate some funds then it will be to after xmas, especially given the economy. Hell, I'll even send you 5 bucks by post if you tell me where. I can't show up to San Diago, I'm up in norcal, but I can kick you a couple bucks and get some people to do it too. I don't have any time, wherewithal, or experience to help you, and it sounds like you have more then you can handle so I'm sorry to say that, but given that you've already had to sink thousands into this, I'd be happy to donate some bucks. Let us know.

Will


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

likestocrash said:


> I thought the submittal process was simple...wrong.  In order to save billable engineering hours, I'll be dealing with San Diego Development Department's formal submittal process. As soon as I have the $2100 deposit and all the applications complete, I'll be handing over the plans to review department (four pages of "Remediation Plans").
> I wouldn't wish this fiascoe on my worst enemy. * Kids, remember keep building trails just don't get caught. *
> Mods again thank you. Althought this process is long, grueling and very stressful, it's a good chunk of reality.


it's a shame that you try and do everything right and they grind you like this....I would donate to the cause


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> it's a shame that you try and do everything right and they grind you like this....I would donate to the cause


My website is almost ready to rock. I just want to publish it at the right time. It will have all the pertinent material to show legitimacy and donation link as well.

Thanks for the support.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

SUITEDFINGERS said:


> this blows but try to get as much backing as possible. Show that you are law abiding citizens (assuming that you are) and that you were ignorant of this paticilar law (which you obviously were). I work in the civil engineering field and this is a bunch of BS. This sounds like something that's never happened before and they are setting an example. With enough community support your city council members will take your side unless they want to get voted out. Go to them and show your case. They do have a lot of say what goes on. Just don't turn this into an angry mob situation and you should be fine.


Very smart advice. Always stay calm. Respond don't react!! You may gather more support than you think if you present your case calm and intelligently to whomever is or wanting to listen. ....corruption...ofcourse...stay true and it will be fine.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Looks like a job for the Turko Files!


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*Update - Fundraiser Website*

Hello all,

I have published a website named: justwannaride.org containing the applicable materials to prove the legitimacy of my situation. There is a PayPal account linked to it for donations/support. My main objective now is to simply get as many riders/supporters to hit the website. From there, they can obtain all details and answers. The site is: justwannaride.org justwannaride.org

Thank you for all the support.

Joe Stewart
[email protected]


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## yellowjeep (Aug 20, 2008)

All of this is way more than I can even wrap my head around, I honestly hope that all of this gets resolved and you can get back to riding.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*link*

justwannaride.org

To show support. Thank you!


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## sjordan72 (Jan 16, 2005)

One of my favorite photos of me is riding this trail about the time Joe started riding there. I work for the City and am frankly embarrassed by the way he has been treated. Way to go Joe! Thanks for doing it right and not letting them get the best of you. Some day, we might have a pro-mountain biking atmosphere here in San Diego.

S.


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## levee67 (May 13, 2004)

I just donated to justwannaride's cause. It's tight times for everyone, but this situation could happen to any of us who are committed trail builders. Dropping a few coins in the can is a small way to help a brother out.

damon


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## Jared5755 (Aug 10, 2006)

I sent what I could. It's so easy, just a PayPal link. Everyone should give a little bit if they can.


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

Jared5755 said:


> I sent what I could. It's so easy, just a PayPal link. Everyone should give a little bit if they can.


Levee and Jared...you guys rock. I really appreciate it. I'm about to check my IM's right now.

I'll also keep everybody posted on the running total. I'm still trying to figure out how to have an automatic counter on the link.

Thanks again guys!


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## sjordan72 (Jan 16, 2005)

Joe, we are having a SDMBA volunteer appreciation thing this weekend. I am going to give a shout out to see if I can get some people on board, or at least check out the site. 

Take care!

Scott.


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

Jared5755 said:


> I sent what I could. It's so easy, just a PayPal link. Everyone should give a little bit if they can.


Werd. Even if you never get to ride it. It sux the man is trying keep this from happening. Sounds like someone in City Hall has a beef with bikers. If eveyone who's posted here gives just $10 that'd go a long way. Hope it works out.


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## Jared5755 (Aug 10, 2006)

WaveDude said:


> Werd. Even if you never get to ride it.


No one gets to ride it. He isn't going through all this to build a trail, he's going through all this to tear down the trail. That makes it sting just that much more...


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## Sim2u (Nov 22, 2006)

Did you give a 10$er...?:thumbsup:



WaveDude said:


> Werd. Even if you never get to ride it. It sux the man is trying keep this from happening. Sounds like someone in City Hall has a beef with bikers. If eveyone who's posted here gives just $10 that'd go a long way. Hope it works out.


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

Sim2u said:


> Did you give a 10$er...?:thumbsup:


I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incrimenate me. Kinda like donating to Hamas or the Taliban.


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## KLittle123 (Oct 27, 2007)

coghi said:


> well you know bad drainage can cuase this.. a small jump could bring an entire mountain down....


Haha, it kinda looks like that hill threw up.


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## RacinJason (Apr 4, 2007)

Hey Shiver I tried to do what you said and drop it now the douch bag guy is saying Down hillers are dorks and Bike mechanics are dumb. I am tech lever 3 mechanic. I teach people how to rebuild suspension at race teams and shops. I design components for bike at a manufactures lever. I do R&D . I think its funny. 

I thought you would get a kick out it because he is now using his other screen name to try to insult me Canyunrider. You will laugh when you see him try to deny it. As if I didn't know.
I like how he thinks all DH riders are dorks. He couldnt catch me up or down the hill. Who is thew dork now?


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## HANKg (Mar 20, 2006)

Joe-

Good luck with the fight. I've been following this thread for a couple of months. I'm a college student in Raleigh, NC. As a fellow biker and a future engineer I know the fees can be outstanding.

To all reviewing this thread. Some people are saying $10...I could afford $5. Every little bit helps. Throw up what you can!

Good Luck!

-Hank


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

HANKg said:


> Joe-
> 
> Good luck with the fight. I've been following this thread for a couple of months. I'm a college student in Raleigh, NC. As a fellow biker and a future engineer I know the fees can be outstanding.
> 
> ...


Thanks Hank. I'll be posting the "revised" plans that my engineer and I drew up. These, hopefully will suffice the second submittal. As far as the donations go, without sounding ungrateful, I've raised a meager $258 (the debt is now over $6,000) bucks. Half of that is from my really good friends. People just simply aren't to lose with the pocket books these days. 
Thanks again for your support.

-Joe Stewart


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

Sad...when/if the trail gets finished I bet there'd be more than 258 riders.


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## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

$10 donated to the fund. I won't go for a beer after work today.

How many of us NorCal'rs would pay $10 to keep UCSC open? I would pay $100 to keep that spot the way it is.

Keep up the fight and I hope you can get it up and running.

Website is www.justwannaride.org Click on Donate


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

mtnryder56 said:


> $10 donated to the fund. I won't go for a beer after work today.
> 
> How many of us NorCal'rs would pay $10 to keep UCSC open? I would pay $100 to keep that spot the way it is.
> 
> ...


Thanks dude! That's very thoughtfull of you. YOu'd be surprised how many people have said "dude, I'll totally donate and help the cause" and haven't brough sh*t to the table.

Thank you again.

-Joe


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

*update - FUNDRAISER WEBSITE*



likestocrash said:


> Thanks dude! That's very thoughtfull of you. YOu'd be surprised how many people have said "dude, I'll totally donate and help the cause" and haven't brough sh*t to the table.
> 
> Thank you again.
> 
> -Joe


Kids, don't ever do what I did. If any of you have seen SuperBad: when he's in the liquor store buying beer and breaks a sixer on the ground, the clerk says "F.M.L".

That's about how I feel right now.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

kenbentit said:


> Still trying to see the connection between dirt jumps and urban sprawl...:skep:


I know a bunch of ours are gone in Reno because of it. I moved to Reno to get away from crap like this. Now we are starting to face the same thing. Even starting to see more and more of the "if it's not marked as open it's a closed trail". :madman:


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## mullet dew (Jun 4, 2008)

justwannaride.org seems to be down, tried last night and today. What gives?


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## sjordan72 (Jan 16, 2005)

*Freedom Riders*

Hey all, including Joe. We are planning on showing Freedom Riders here in San Diego. Probably at 2 locations in North Park this month. Ironing out the details. I am posting this here because the film brings up the issues of so called "Illegal" trails and one of the ways that things have worked out. I'll see if we can do a tie in to Just Wanna Ride.

Freedom Riders Trailer


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## likestocrash (May 29, 2004)

mullet dew said:


> justwannaride.org seems to be down, tried last night and today. What gives?


That's because it was literally costing me more money to keep the website than I was getting in donations...


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## zdubyadubya (Oct 5, 2008)

any updates? was following this thread and then things just sorta stopped happening... did you guys ever find a resolution where the trail could still be used?


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## rob240z (Apr 22, 2009)

Newbie here and I'm not a downhiller, but I feel your pain as I've had my ass dragged through the coals by the city in the past over an error regarding building permits on my house. If you still have the paypal account, I'd be willing to donate a few bucks your way.


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## stephenpaul6557 (Jul 10, 2009)

Wow that sounds like a serious problem! I wish I could help but I don't know to much about that, but I hope you find the answer you are looking for!


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## Chumba15 (Jul 3, 2009)

Hope everything is working out. Whats the update? Got any pics of what the trail looked like? I'll donate 20 bucks, send me your paypal. I'm a college student in eastern NC and can't afford to donate more than 20 at the moment but I would be happy to help. I would hope others would do the same if I was in that situation.


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## Wil109 (Jul 2, 2007)

There is similar problem here in the UK, though I don't think we get fined for it. What is interesting is that several months back our government backed Forestry Comission pulled down a decent sized DH trail in north scotland. The trail riders went crazy because the trail was used for organised competitions I think it was the Scottish Downhill Association. So some press coverage was organised and voila the Forestrey Comission suddenly got together with the trail fairies and all became good.... apparently. Haven't been to check it out lately

Perhaps if you could get to the right people in City hall (not too sure what you guys call it) and perhaps throw a business case their way. As in if this trail is developed more it could become a potential attraction and bring in some revenue somehow. I'm maybe barking up the wrong tree but its just an idea.

Wil


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## yinyang (Mar 28, 2005)

fisherNM said:


> I think you are under a few misconceptions.
> 
> 1) The city has every right to protect the people that live in the area. Changes to the grade can affect the water flow for lands outside of your construction project. There have been enough instances of unintended consequences throughout the US that a grading plan should be expected in ANY construction project.
> 
> ...


Your estimates are way high...

If I had a license in CA I'd hook you guys up, but it's one of the only non reciprocal states for a PE...

Good luck.


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## sjordan72 (Jan 16, 2005)

fisherNM said:


> I think you are under a few misconceptions.
> 
> 1) The city has every right to protect the people that live in the area. Changes to the grade can affect the water flow for lands outside of your construction project. There have been enough instances of unintended consequences throughout the US that a grading plan should be expected in ANY construction project.
> 
> ...


Are you some stooge for the City (or SOME City)? I tend to think so. Obviously you have never looked at the photos of the area, and have no idea of how the area was created (i.e. the City dumping several hundred tons of trash and concrete there after wildfires burned down many many houses. They literally just bulldozed the concrete foundations of several houses into this canyon.

Please ID yourself.


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## Smoke324 (Aug 11, 2009)

fisherNM said:


> I think you are under a few misconceptions.
> 
> 1) The city has every right to protect the people that live in the area. Changes to the grade can affect the water flow for lands outside of your construction project. There have been enough instances of unintended consequences throughout the US that a grading plan should be expected in ANY construction project.
> 
> ...


Why do I see a resemblance between this guy and Micheal J. Vandeman. I mean really GTFO this forum if you hate MTB so much. We all love the sport and that's why were here. I bet you don't even know how to ride DJ/DH Freeride whatever. All I can say is if you are so against MTB then WTF are u doing here?


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