# The blurring of the definition of 'Mechanized Travel'



## CANADIANBACON (Sep 25, 2005)

Has anyone bumped into "Speed Hikers" out on their local trails yet?

Speed hiking is the extreme, higher-risk, rad, 'faster' young sister of traditional hiking. It's participants tend to sport some pretty expensive looking, high-tech, light weight gear while getting after it. Funny thing too, the popular colors are totally enduro-esque bright neon.









After a brief exchange with one of the 'speed hikers' I encountered, I was struck with a question. At what point can a person clad in:

dual compound vibram soul, foam core, carbon fiber shanked, goretex lined, boa closured hiking boots, with superlight telescoping carbon fiber and titanium poles, fly weight, rip-stop nylon clothing and hip and or internal frame pack (with built in hydration), and gps watch...

NOT be considered "mechanized"?

No hating here. They Seemed like super cool folks.

Just askin?
CB


----------



## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

I may steal this question from you.


----------



## Mtn. Biker123 (Sep 17, 2005)

I have not encountered this illusive Wilderbeast in Gortex, but if I do I will be cautious so as not to disturb them in their natural habitat.


----------



## dirt pirate (Feb 26, 2009)

Speed hiking or extreme trail running (basically the same) is very popular here in the Central Cascades of Washington State. Our neighboring wilderness area (Alpine Lakes) has a very popular area that is permit only for camping and permits sell out months in advance. The locals prefer the high speed travel method of access over traditional backpacking since no permit is required and you can go with a minimum of planning. The do have some of the most high tech gear out there a far cry from the old days of wool and flannel. They love to train on bermed mountain bike trails too, so they like us.


----------



## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Theres better examples: Backcountry skiing? How is that not "mechanized". Or snowshoeing. 

(And I'm a backcountry skiier as well as mt biker).


----------



## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Snowshoeing I can see because it's the same speed as hiking. Skiing used mechanical means to increase speed/efficiency so seems very similar to biking.

The other one I see that makes no sense is allowing a tool powered by a nonliving fuel source to heat up a meal, but not to cut a downed log out of the trail.


----------



## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

In my simple mind the solution is to simplify the form of travel to human powered.


----------



## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

gravitylover said:


> In my simple mind the solution is to simplify the form of travel to human powered.


That would be great IMO, as it would allow bikes and not horses. There is another group getting the shaft currently though that it seems unfair to, and that's hangliders. I am not a hanglider but don't see how use of one is contrary to the Act. A hanglider is arguably less mechanical than ski bindings.


----------



## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

So are speed hikers basically trail running while wearing hiking gear instead of running gear? I've not seen this type of person yet on my local trails, maybe it's only a matter of time.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

screw loose in his skull mechanism


----------



## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

Someone wrote recently about the notion that mountain bikers aren't thought to have the proper "reverence" for wilderness. Leaving aside whether or not that's valid, it occurs to me that one could argue the same for trail running or "speed hiking", or ... what is that even that cmc4130 just posted a picture of... forest parkour?


----------



## Mtn. Biker123 (Sep 17, 2005)

It would appear that this Wilderbeast has managed to overcome the force of Earth's gravity, without the use of a ramp and/or fossil fueled rocket booster.

Either it's a pretty good photoshop, or we are in serious danger of getting left behind.


----------



## The Sagebrush Slug (Jan 12, 2004)

CANADIANBACON said:


> Has anyone bumped into "Speed Hikers" out on their local trails yet?


I'm still wondering when the Sierra Club is going to start inspecting people for mechanical devices.

If I've got artificial hips (and I do) am I even allowed to hike in the Wilderness? :nono::eekster::skep::eekster::nono:


----------



## dirt pirate (Feb 26, 2009)

Wow, that is a good point. I bet the trail contractor who was fined for using a cordless drill to install a new trail sign would have something to add concerning artificial joints.


The Sagebrush Slug said:


> I'm still wondering when the Sierra Club is going to start inspecting people for mechanical devices.
> 
> If I've got artificial hips (and I do) am I even allowed to hike in the Wilderness? :nono::eekster::skep::eekster::nono:


----------



## mbmtb (Nov 28, 2013)

there are hikers who really dislike trail runners and want to figure out how to ban them.

what'll be really interesting is when exoskeletons become affordable for some class of hikers.

one solution is speed limits. the speed limit for all users in philadelphia is 7mph. never mind that a runner (and there's tons of them, especially on the broad flat trails in the system) typically runs faster than that, and a fast one double that. of course, that's how most speed limit signs are treated there (don't go more than double the posted value).


----------



## tbmaddux (May 22, 2012)

mbmtb said:


> there are hikers who really dislike trail runners and want to figure out how to ban them.


Wow, that's just nuts.

I don't have the energy to dislike any group of trail users. I figure we're all out there for similar reasons.


----------



## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

These people probably do this in the Sistine Chapel too...




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=959493967424672


----------



## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

I've been trying to find the time to write something about the evils of twin hiking sticks in wilderness areas. In other words; one hiking stick is OK but 2 should be forbidden.

Twin hiking sticks essentially harness the energy in the upper body and apply it to forward motion; a definite mechanical advantage. A person's forearms are sort of analogous to the crank-arms of a bicycle, the hands the pedals. (Delivering power, not absorbing it so it's inverse) The hiking stick is the rest of the drive train.

In the dark, put a light source on the pedal of a bike and a light source on the wrist of a person using a hiking stick and the image traced by the lights will be quite similar.

Further, paired hiking sticks turn us into a sort of quadruped---I believe that is banned in most religions (or was that bestiality?)


----------



## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

dirt pirate said:


> I bet the trail contractor who was fined for using a cordless drill to install a new trail sign


You gotta be kidding me?! Do you have a link on that.


----------



## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

My bike is an inline wheelchair that allows me to get to places I can't get to on foot. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.


----------



## The Sagebrush Slug (Jan 12, 2004)

pliebenberg said:


> I've been trying to find the time to write something about the evils of twin hiking sticks in wilderness areas. In other words; one hiking stick is OK but 2 should be forbidden.


The trail damage from people hiking with two sticks is pretty high in some places.

Those sticks are one of the few things that can break up a compacted trail bed.:madman::madmax::madman:


----------



## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

Haha!

https://appalachiantrail.org/docs/d...-resources/trekking-pole-impacts.pdf?sfvrsn=2

" As demonstrated by the previous quotes from hikers, the environmental
impacts of trekking poles can also be visually obtrusive to trail users. For some hikers this new form of
visual impact "takes away from my "experience" because I feel like someone just walked by there a few 
minutes ago....bye, by wilderness." Significant impacts from heavy pole use could even make the trail
more difficult to use or increase maintenance work and costs. The audible scraping noises that trekking
poles make when used on hard surfaces can also be an irritant to fellow hikers. One Internet Newsgroup
correspondent likened the sound to "fingernails on a chalkboard" when crossing rock surfaces."
Collectively, these impacts have the potential to trigger conflict between trail users, much the same as
conflicts between different types of trail users (e.g., hikers, horseback riders, and mountain bike riders)."

" Although rubber tips will wear off and may become trail litter,
we consider this an acceptable cost for the benefits achieved in reducing resource impacts. "

Trekking poles are the ebikes of the hiking community? 

"Trekking poles may be viewed as essential by older hikers or those with weaker knees or
other health limitations: without poles they might be unable to visit some protected areas."


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

tbmaddux said:


> Someone wrote recently about the notion that mountain bikers aren't thought to have the proper "reverence" for wilderness.


I've always thought a big part of this perception comes from the fact that most interaction between hikers and bikers occurs in front country trail systems. Since those trail systems are easily accessible you get a lot of traffic which inevitably includes some mix of inexperienced and/or ignorant trail users, as well lots of people who are straight up morons or @ssholes. There are bound to be some negative encounters, and unfortunately it is easy for some to assume that the same will happen in the backcountry.

That has never been my experience however. It takes more effort, commitment and preparation to get into the backcountry, so you have to really want to be there and the type of people who want to be there do tend have that "reverence" for wilderness, regardless of foot/pedal/hoof power.

I would argue that a lot of popular Sierras/wilderness trails are more like front country trail systems now. Heavily used by a wide range of people. Hiking is the new "it" thing after the PCT movie and also because of social media. Seems like everyone and their grandma has Mt Whitney on their bucket list. They had to remove the pit toilets at Trail Camp because people were putting too much garbage in them. Longtime PCT hikers and long time trail angels are up in arms because the new breed of PCT hiker is there more for the party or social aspect than the hike. After complaining that bikes would ruin their feeling of solitude and isolation I find it ironic they now share the PCT with 4,000 other thru hikers who aren't all there for the wilderness experience.


----------



## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

mbmtb said:


> there are hikers who really dislike trail runners and want to figure out how to ban them.


For real! There was part of a management plan update for Sequoia, Inyo and Sierra National Forests that proposed a PCT corridor in addition to giving the PCTA what is essentially a veto over anything they deem detrimental to the PCT which might include intersections with multi-use trails (since meeting anyone else will obviously ruin the solitude of all 4000 thru hikers). It would also put a ban on new trail running races since those too ruin hikers experience. Read comments on hiker forums - they quote the same BS about trail runners that they do about bikes, which is that they have to keep looking over their shoulder for trail runners and bikes, which ruins their experience of solitude. Because the trail runner or biker will obviously collide with them if they don't move out of the way.

See post #192 MTBR thread - http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/big-news-feds-consider-allowing-bikes-pct-816284-8.html
See USFS project page - Forest Service
See project doc, pages 59-61 http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/1155...ai.com/11558/www/nepa/3403_FSPLT3_2325964.pdf

Also, hiking groups have unsuccessfully sued the Forest Service to limit commercial pack operations in the Sierras 
HIGH SIERRA HIKERS ASSOCIATION v. BLACKWELL | FindLaw
Bikers who get into the area under their own power seem a lot more consistent with Wilderness to me than commercial pack operations who carry tons of gear in so fat rich tourists can go glamping.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

evdog said:


> . . . . . . would ruin their feeling of solitude and isolation . . . .


This reminded me of the Monty Python "Hermit" sketch.


----------



## Chalkpaw (Dec 28, 2007)

I'm lucky or cursed to witness traveling on several of the busiest trails in Grand Canyon National park. Bright Angel and South Kaibab. What a study of trail dynamics, social interactions, bliss and frustration. ITs part of the AZ Trail but in this section, No bikes allowed. Once the north rim opens, this trail surges with people. Up to 700 a day! And this is in Wilderness, but hardly a wilderness experience. The dynamics of hiker, speed hiker, trail runner, RTR, RTRTR, Mules, tourists, backpackers, guided trips, river folk coming in or out, trail crews, park rangers, and search and rescue. NPS helicopters fly in and out often. The corridor trails are a funnel of sound and energy. In this case, bikes are smart to stay out, except for the Sedona five. But that is another story told elsewhere...
The thing I notice about busy trail energy is all about the importance timing and giving "something" to others. This can be a smile or a heartfelt hello. It can be an offering of gifts (water, food, extra batteries), Offer advise only when people ask for it. Reading Body language is huge. Giving space can be helpful, going by while running with elbows out is considered aggression. I really think that trail education is key and land agencies fail with that one. But like a good concert, most people are out having fun, wanting nature. The clashing comes when different agendas meet. Hmm, sounds like life.

It will be interesting if say a company like Nike ran its business like a busy trail day.


----------



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ACree said:


> The other one I see that makes no sense is allowing a tool powered by a nonliving fuel source to heat up a meal, but not to cut a downed log out of the trail.


The argument would be that one is very loud and the other one isn't. Peace, tranquility, and all that.


----------



## jp08865 (Aug 12, 2014)

*Wow*, just wow. Never realized everybody hates everybody before.

_*" Have a Nice Day " *_  ........


----------



## Moe Ped (Aug 24, 2009)

Curveball said:


> The argument would be that one is very loud and the other one isn't. Peace, tranquility, and all that.


My 40v cordless chainsaw is relatively quiet (makes no more noise than an e-bike) and makes far less noise than an ax chopping wood.


----------

