# Over 60 considering an ebike



## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


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## blueglide (Apr 23, 2020)

jimbones said:


> I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


I'm 65 and bought my first ebike after riding hardtails and rigids. Buy it, enjoy it, and to #@!& what others think of your choice.


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

67 and ride both, ebike and non ebike. Alternate rides and don’t worry about the ebike hate.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Kootbiker said:


> 67 and ride both, ebike and non ebike. Alternate rides and don't worry about the ebike hate.


Me, too. Same age and everything.

Forgive the people who hate on ebikes, they are simply confused. They think ebiking and regular human-powered biking are the same sport. Actually mountain biking and ebiking are not the same sport. Just as off-road motorcycling is a different sport than mountain biking, so is ebiking. People who understand the distinction have no problem with people engaging in whatever sport they choose.

Well except for this uncomfortable truth: established trail users have always resisted and resented any new trail user group. Hikers hated mountain bikers in the early days of off-road cycling, too. The hikers tried desperately to get mountain bikers banned from multi-use trails. Why? Because mountain bikers were viewed as a new trail user group.

Now it's mountain bikers trying to do exactly the same thing to ebikers. Mountain bikers have become an established trail user group and ebikers are a new user group.

I'll mention again that I enjoy both human powered cycling and ebiking. I started mountain biking in 1985 and remain an avid mountain biker. I've built many miles of multi-use singletrack and perform hundreds of hours of trail maintenance each year. I'm a mountain biker first, off-road motorcyclist & ebiker second. I don't confuse one sport with the others and I'm open to people using the backcountry as they see fit, so long as it's legal and they respect other trail users.
=sParty


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## jfksabal (Feb 21, 2013)

Sparticus said:


> Me, too. Same age and everything.
> 
> Forgive the people who hate on ebikes, they are simply confused. They think ebiking and regular human-powered biking are the same sport. Actually mountain biking and ebiking are not the same sport. Just as off-road motorcycling is a different sport than mountain biking, so is ebiking. People who understand the distinction have no problem with people engaging in whatever sport they choose.
> 
> ...


A-FRIKKIN'-MEN brotha!


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## Old & Slow (May 3, 2020)

jimbones said:


> I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch).


If your Trek is suitable, I'd say convert it to an eBike, see following:

At over 70 and no experience riding mtb's and hadn't been on any bike in 2-decades my path was convoluted.

Started with an Lectric XP ( a gutless fat tire budget ebike) totally unsuited for steep offroad terrain. Returned two, both failed. Then got on CL and found a 26" FS that had the correct geometry for a motor and battery. Used a Bafang BBHSD and a massive battery. The combination will climb any terrain, but my crashes taught me to walk when I see especially challenging terrain. That motor will pull wheelies if your weight isn't forward.

The bike, motor and battery about $2000, much cheaper than a turnkey ebike.

The dog and I have had a blast riding the 4WD roads around my house, no way I could have ridden a pure pedal bike on this terrain. Most of my riding has been on snow packed roads . . . looking forward to spring and snowless roads.


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

Forgot to add, I grimace when climbing steeps on my regular bike, a Santa Cruz Nomad C and quietly laugh when climbing on my e bike.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

I’m 25 and have owned 2 ebikes. Most my friends are under 30 and also own ebikes. When someone fellow biker or hikers comments “Aren’t you too young for an ebike?” (Hear it fairly often). I usually reply, “You’re never too young to have fun riding bikes”.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

65 in May bought my e-bike in June, still have my non assist bikes. Also have motos Sparty said they are different.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

jimbones said:


> I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


You should get one and try it for sure. It has nothing to do with your age, injuries or disabilities.

The real issue is how much are you riding right now? How much can you climb each week? If it's not much or not enough to keep you happy and healthy then an ebike will help. It will definitely enable you to ride more, maybe a lot more. You can ride from home, everyday, too steep, too boring... they all magically become fun adventures.

5 years ago, emtb in the US was disapproved by 95% of bikers. Today, it's about 40%, depending on where you live. So not everyone likes it but there's no question where it's going. So still need a little bit of thick skin and be secure of yourself to ride an emtb.

But do it, be rewarded with a lot more riding. This applies to healthy folks, folks in their twenties and above.

We don't have to make excuses to ride ebikes. There are sooooo many benefits for a lot of folks.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Francis Cebedo said:


> We don't have to make excuses to ride ebikes. There are sooooo many benefits for a lot of folks.


Not the least of which is ebikes are an absolute blast to ride. For anyone.
Isn't a key reason we got into mountain biking because it is fun?
It's okay to enjoy more than one sport. Many people simply love to have fun with two-wheeled contraptions.
Just about any two-wheeled contraption. Heck, I even owned a recumbent for a while. 
=sParty


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## blueglide (Apr 23, 2020)

I agree with Sparticus about the resistance to anything new and new things invading old familiar territory. I personally am not so sure there is a huge distinction between mtbing and ebiking. I personally don't even use my pedal assist motor unless making a long steep climb and ride 75% of the time with my motor off...therefore I am mtbing. Turning my motor on still requires my pedaling, using the correct gearing while pedaling, picking the correct lines while climbing or descending, and using all the other mtb skills I would use without an ebike. I was one of those who thought of ebiking as 'cheating' until I actually did it. I think the distinction between ebiking and mtbing is very very small.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Kootbiker said:


> Forgot to add, I grimace when climbing steeps on my regular bike, a Santa Cruz Nomad C and quietly laugh when climbing on my e bike.


Yeah, I'm 68 and don't have an ebike yet. Live at 6500 feet and climb from there to 9500 feet with my 30 year old son.
There's a fine line, between a grin and a grimace!
I'll probably get an ebike about the time I turn 70. But that's just because they look like fun.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Are they legal in any trails you hope to hope to ride ?. They are illegal on mt. bike trails in NY State.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

RBoardman said:


> I'm 25 and have owned 2 ebikes. Most my friends are under 30 and also own ebikes. When someone fellow biker or hikers comments "Aren't you too young for an ebike?" (Hear it fairly often). I usually reply, "You're never too young to have fun riding bikes".


Yeah, i monish bike in France every year for a couple of months. It's really hard to find young, fit, skilled riders NOT on e MTN bikes.

Why not, you get twice the down on every ride

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

rod9301 said:


> Yeah, i monish bike in France every year for a couple of months. It's really hard to find young, fit, skilled riders NOT on e MTN bikes.
> 
> Why not, you get twice the down on every ride
> 
> Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


Sorry,i MOUNTAIN bike, not monish.

I'm in a hurry to go skiing, couloirs are waiting

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

jimbones said:


> I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


If e-bikes are legal on your trails and it brings you joy, then a nice modern e-bike should be a blast.

That said, it's worth noting that just moving to a modern 29" trail bike (assumed you are an appropriate height to consider a 29er) will likely massively improve your speed, ability to clear terrain and enjoyment without a motor being involved.

Good luck.

Sent from my KYOCERA-E6920 using Tapatalk


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

MSU Alum said:


> Yeah, I'm 68 and don't have an ebike yet. Live at 6500 feet and climb from there to 9500 feet with my 30 year old son.
> There's a fine line, between a grin and a grimace!
> I'll probably get an ebike about the time I turn 70. But that's just because they look like fun.


I have a good friend who said he'll get an ebike in 10 years. I gasped and asked. "How old are you now???" He said 72!

I just said ok. Folks are ready at different points I guess. I just ask folks who are not riding that much and climbing that well to try one. Really try one and see if it fits the schedule, lifestyle and aspirations.


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

I may rent one for a ride beyond my normal physical limits.
I retired from a 40 year career where limits are everything.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, you probably need to get a new bike since yours is quite dated; 26” wheels, do they still make tires for that size 🤣

Ebikes are fine if that’s what you want, but the “thneed” is really what you have to determine.

You can get a good workout on an ebike, it’s like anything, use s lower power setting and climb a steeper hill.

Ebikes allow you to ride further, steeper, and maintain better traction than a non ebike.

Ebikes weigh more, cost more, and have more complexity than a non ebike.

Each person has a different barometer for deciding whether they need an ebike.

My barometer: can I ride what I want to ride/what I’m used to riding on a non ebike?

I was riding in St George on Suicidal Tendencies, it’s an expert trail with a fair amount of technical climbing. I don’t struggle riding it, it’s well within my skills and fitness, but I certainly don’t race up the trail; I do go fast on the downs 😆

So I’m climbing up this ^ trail and while I’m stopped to adjust my seat post, this guy goes cooking by on a Santa Cruz FS bike, and as I watch him pass I think to myself, “his cadence is kinda slow”; turns out he was on an ebike.

This guy was pretty fit looking, was riding a tough trail, and seemed to be doing it with well honed skills. He did not appear to be working as hard physically as he could, so I’m not sure if he would be able to ride the trail without assist; I suspect he could.

If there comes a day where I can’t ride up a trail like this ^ but I still have the skills and technical ability to ride it with assist, I’d probably use an ebike, but for the riding that I can do without an ebike I would still ride a non ebike.

That Santa Cruz ebike looks pretty sweet!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Juansan said:


> E-Bikes are for those with disability's !! Age is not a disability.


So then what is a disability?

My understanding is being disabled is determined by comparing you're expected ability to the ability of the average person in your cohort.

However, what if you want to do things that you're no longer able to do because of age, such as ride further, longer, and harder.

Is this ^ a disability or is it an inability? Kinda splitting hairs here, but it's hard to judge another without walking in their shoes.

My suggestion would be to avoid judging others lest you be judged in return. I would not be surprised if some day you eat your words, but then at 70 you don't have much time left ?


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## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

Wow, great responses. Let me clarify that I had 4 surgeries in 7 years on my hips and back. I notice that when climbing I don't have the "back" to make it up the more difficult climbs. I recently retired and my goal is to spend more time riding so hopefully an ebike may help me up the climbs and be able to ride longer. I am looking to the ebike to do all the work for me but to assist me on the hardest parts. So my body is beat up and besides the surgeries I have lots of other injuries that challenge me. Thanks.


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## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

Nurse Ben: I had a friend that rode until 93 until 3 months before he died. He rode 150 miles per week. AND he used to speed skate every week as well!!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

jimbones said:


> Nurse Ben: I had a friend that rode until 93 until 3 months before he died. He rode 150 miles per week. AND he used to speed skate every week as well!!!


Great story, well, until the dead at 93 part.

Sure, there are plenty of folks who are able to remain active late into life; I suspect a fair number of folks posting in this forum fall into this group.

That said, what one person can do has no bearing on what another can do, we're all different in genetics and health history.

It's never good to judge another, judging yourself is probably enough to keep you busy and it prevents as many disagreements.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

I built an e bike for my wife when I was 61. In debugging her bike and setting the programming I became hooked on it. Damned thing only took about a hundred yards to hook me.

I cannot justify an e bike based on need
I cannot justify an e bike based on physical capabilities. 
I cannot justify an e bike based on disabilities
I cannot justify an e bike based on costs
I cannot justify an e bike based on being green
I cannot justify an e bike based on simplicity

Jezz, I don't need any of the above what so ever. Life is damned short and I am 65.

The *only justification I need is it's fkn FUN TIMES 10!*  Hooked in a hundred yards.

I'm over them thar analog bikes. This old fart is not looking back
You need not feel sorry for me. *I damned well don't feel cheated*. 
I went from 1,200 miles a year to over 4,500 miles a year
The kind of fun I have on my e bike is infectious.
There, I said it, now back to being humble.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Francis Cebedo said:


> I have a good friend who said he'll get an ebike in 10 years. I gasped and asked. "How old are you now???" He said 72!
> 
> I just said ok. Folks are ready at different points I guess. I just ask folks who are not riding that much and climbing that well to try one. Really try one and see if it fits the schedule, lifestyle and aspirations.


I should clarify. I've ridden them on the street and I think they're a hoot! I've arbitrarily picked 2 years, just because I'd like the battery and motor technology to get better. And, I figure by then my wife will be on one as well. There are places around here in northern Utah where you can ride a motorcycle/dirt bike and I'm also contemplating an electric version of that! (I just don't like the noise of a motorcycle.). I won't be getting one to get exercise unless I'm unable to do so under my own power. This would be to cover more ground at a higher rate of speed. That's kind of pushing me toward the electric dirt bike category - which I haven't researched very much - but obviously, riding that on mountain bike trails is out. Although.....there are places out west (like up in Montana) where you can walk, horseback ride, ride a bike, ride an ebike or ride a motorcycle.
Anyway, it's all fun.


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## crockej (Jun 4, 2019)

I’m in my 60s and have been riding mtb for decades. Last year, I bought my wife an ebike so she would ride with me on some rides. On the first ride, she waited for me for 10 minutes while I grunted up a steep back road. The next day, I ordered myself an ebike so I could ride with her. She doesn’t ride much so she sets her assist at 25% while mine is at 10%. We now are matched in riding and enjoy riding together. Ebikes can be the great equalizer no matter your age or fitness when riding with others.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

crockej said:


> I'm in my 60s and have been riding mtb for decades. Last year, I bought my wife an ebike so she would ride with me on some rides. On the first ride, she waited for me for 10 minutes while I grunted up a steep back road. The next day, I ordered myself an ebike so I could ride with her. She doesn't ride much so she sets her assist at 25% while mine is at 10%. We now are matched in riding and enjoy riding together. Ebikes can be the great equalizer no matter your age or fitness when riding with others.


But see, that's where I think they don't do what they should. They aren't an equalizer for a weaker cyclist to match to a stronger cyclist, you had to buy an ebike to keep up with the ebike (I'm sure the manufacturers hate that!) They should have been limited to be more bicycle like, providing assist but not so much that a typical rider on a bicycle can't keep up. Yes, they would need some fine tuning to find the "equal" but as they are, they are beyond bicycles rather than just providing needed assist to a bicycling experience.


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## blueglide (Apr 23, 2020)

chazpat said:


> But see, that's where I think they don't do what they should. They aren't an equalizer for a weaker cyclist to match to a stronger cyclist, you had to buy an ebike to keep up with the ebike (I'm sure the manufacturers hate that!) They should have been limited to be more bicycle like, providing assist but not so much that a typical rider on a bicycle can't keep up. Yes, they would need some fine tuning to find the "equal" but as they are, they are beyond bicycles rather than just providing needed assist to a bicycling experience.


It's not difficult. Everybody's abilities are different. He could have simply told his wife to use less assistance or slow down. I bought my wife an ebike and she is still a much slower rider than me. I simply match her pace by using little or no assist. Just because an ebike might be able to go faster than another rider doesn't mean they have too!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

blueglide said:


> It's not difficult. Everybody's abilities are different. He could have simply told his wife to use less assistance or slow down. I bought my wife an ebike and she is still a much slower rider than me. I simply match her pace by using little or no assist. Just because an ebike might be able to go faster than another rider doesn't mean they have too!


Well, I guess that is always the issue even on bicycles, one person is faster than the other.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

It's not about the bike. My GF & I have a dear riding buddy who's 73 y/o we'll call Ed. Ed has always been an avid rider (road & mountain) and still rides his human powered bikes a lot. Still a strong rider. Ed's got a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail and he knows how to use it. Anyway about a year ago Ed bought a Trek Rail ebike -- and he loves it. Rides the Rail 50-60% of the time, at least during these cold, wet, slippery winter months. Meanwhile my GF & I are still riding our human powered bikes.

So it's often two human powered bikes (my GF & me) and one ebike (Ed) on the same ride. Our local terrain includes many steep pitches so we human powered riders are crawling along.

Anyway the neat thing about riding with Ed when he's aboard his ebike is that he rides at the back. Always. It's like the guy's got no ego at all. He could easily ride away from us if he chose to but he chooses not to. He puts his ebike in "eco" mode (the lowest power assist level) and stays at the back. This way he gets a good workout. Ed is the most gentlemanly rider I could imagine and his example is one of the things that led me to order an ebike for myself. Ed is a joy to ride with anytime and he's found a way to make himself welcome on any ride, with anyone, regardless what he's riding.

That's the kind of ebiker I want to be. I just picked my new ebike up a couple weeks ago and haven't even ridden it yet but when I do, I'll follow Ed's lead. Ed has taught me that a good leader can lead from the back.
=sParty


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## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

Sparticus said:


> It's not about the bike. My GF & I have a dear riding buddy who's 73 y/o we'll call Ed. Ed has always been an avid rider (road & mountain) and still rides his human powered bikes a lot. Still a strong rider. Ed's got a Guerrilla Gravity Megatrail and he knows how to use it. Anyway about a year ago Ed bought a Trek Rail ebike -- and he loves it. Rides the Rail 50-60% of the time, at least during these cold, wet, slippery winter months. Meanwhile my GF & I are still riding our human powered bikes.
> 
> So it's often two human powered bikes (my GF & me) and one ebike (Ed) on the same ride. Our local terrain includes many steep pitches so we human powered riders are crawling along.
> 
> ...


I agree, I am looking for the lowest level of assist as I want to increase my physical capability and get back in shape after my surgeries. I believe that this will allow me to get out and ride more often and longer thereby improving my fitness. I really appreciate all the feedback and from what I see I should not feel ashamed to ride an ebike. I will obviously keep my Trek Fuel 9.8. BTW not sure if I should start a separate thread but since ebikes are in relative infancy, should I wait or buy now? I know that as products mature they get better and cheaper. Thanks again for the advice.


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## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

crockej said:


> I'm in my 60s and have been riding mtb for decades. Last year, I bought my wife an ebike so she would ride with me on some rides. On the first ride, she waited for me for 10 minutes while I grunted up a steep back road. The next day, I ordered myself an ebike so I could ride with her. She doesn't ride much so she sets her assist at 25% while mine is at 10%. We now are matched in riding and enjoy riding together. Ebikes can be the great equalizer no matter your age or fitness when riding with others.


I like that idea. it is probably more enjoyable that you can ride together and neither one of you gets frustrated so you can ride "together". I understand the other reply that is not what it is intended for but who cares as long as you are enjoying it.


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## crockej (Jun 4, 2019)

I'm not familiar with the other e-bikes systems, but with specialized, you can tune your ride support to whatever your needs are. I still ride my analog bike more than my e-bike and with the e-bike weight around 50lbs, there's no reason to take it out without some assist - my analog bike is less than 30lbs and a more pleasant ride (except on the hills). I've found that on my e-bike, a 10% assist is an easier ride than my analog bike but yet a decent workout. I'm guessing that if I turned it down to 5-7% assist, it would probably compensate for the extra weight and give me the same workout as my analog bike. 

Likewise, my wife and I will go on 20-30+ mile backroad rides that previously were beyond our endurance level as compared to being on our analog bikes. We're looking forward to revisiting a lot of our previous limited SW explorations that were done on our analog bikes.

My point is that the technology allows my e-bike to be much more versatile in meeting whatever my riding needs are - whether that be fitness, compatibility with others, or distance. To me, that is a huge advantage with e-bikes and worth every penny/dollar.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I've never ridden an E-mtb on a trail. But as long as they're allowed, why should I care one way or another?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Juansan said:


> "In three years, I've encountered only one e-bike owner who actually deserved his machine, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...


Don't want an ebike? Then don't get one. Meanwhile you sound just like a hiker in 1986 trying to tell existing & prospective mountain bikers that mountain biking isn't hiking and therefore mountain bikes have no place on trails.
No one's asking you to get an ebike and so far you're the one who's confusing these two separate sports. One (mountain biking) is human powered. The other (ebiking) is a sport that includes a motor activated by pedal assist. Why can't everyone see this?
I agree that mountain biking should therefore be harder -- obviously it IS harder and that's one reason I love it. And no one is stopping you from loving it. Want to ride your mountain bike? Then for heaven's sake ride it. But when I'm mountain biking I'm not ebiking. Nor am I ebiking when I'm riding a mountain bike -- because these are two different sports. I hope you'll stop confusing them. It's as wrong as confusing hiking with mountain biking -- like the hikers used to do when they tried to keep the trails all to themselves. The common thread in all these diverse sports -- hiking, mountain biking, ebiking -- is that people have to share trails. Might this be the real problem? Might it be that you simply don't want to share trails?
=sParty


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## blueglide (Apr 23, 2020)

Why are you even interested in the ebike section of the forum anyway?!?!


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Recommended Reading


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Reported for doing nothing but stirring the pot.


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## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

Juansan said:


> "In three years, I've encountered only one e-bike owner who actually deserved his machine, a man with a spinal injury who would otherwise have been unable to ride. I will never begrudge someone the thrill of cruising on two wheels, and e-bikes do have a reason to exist.
> But to everyone who doesn't have a medical excuse-go ride a real bike."
> (Copied from a online article in Outside Mag.) One more fool.
> I'm not against those who buy an E-bike for transportation in place of a car. In my original post I should have been clear that I was sharing my opinion about E-MTB's and not all E-Bikes in general. I think its great to see people outside getting a moderate amount of exercise who might otherwise, do to age or lack of fitness, not ride at all, but I draw the line at E-MTB's and for various reasons. Number one, regardless of the rider needing to push the pedals to engage the motor it is still a motorized vehicle and does not belong on trails. If the area is a designated riding park and allows E-MTB's then fine. Luckily most trail systems do not allow E-MTB's hopefully this won't change despite the efforts of the corporate lobby to change these restrictions. Number Two, the environment. If you are using an E-bike in place of a car then you are benefiting the environment. If on the other hand you are using an E-MTB to haul your lazy ass on trails then you are doing more harm then good. Why ? The battery. The cost to the environment and in turn to humans regarding the extraction and processing of the materials used in Lithium batteries is high. Lithium mines, in dry areas such as in Bolivia, are using large amounts a water in the extraction process. Cobalt mining is primarily done in the Congo need I say more. Its hard to be a total environmentalist when Aluminum and Carbon Fiber are the prominent materials used for frame construction and your phone and laptop all use Lithium batteries but every little bit helps. Only 5% of Lithium Ion batteries are recycled.
> ...


I did have spine surgery and I am under the care of a pain management doctor and trying to avoid joint fusion on my back. Besides that fact that both hips have been replaced, ruptured tendons. broken and seperated shoulders, collarbone, etc. Im fairly beat up lol. Im not looking for the bike to do all the work. I only want small assist on some hill climbs. I played ice hockey for 50 years so it has taken its toll.


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## jimbones (Aug 4, 2007)

prj71 said:


> So all you e-bike folks complaining that you have injuries and have had surgeries that prevent you from riding as far and long as you used to...whatchya gonna do if your e-bike breaks down 10 miles from the trailhead and is not repairable?
> 
> Is your body capable of walking and pushing a 50lb e-bike 10 miles down the trail back to the trailhead?
> 
> ...


Very good point 50 lbs ughh


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

I’m not over 60, though at almost 57, I’m approaching it...

I’m extremely fit, and am an endurance XC rider who does solo 12/24 hour events, and the long Epic Rides races, most of which I’ve done, and do, on my SS.

I’m getting an e-bike...waiting on an Orbea Rise M-Team.

Why? Because I want to. For fun. I’ve done my share of training, and hammering, and long rides, blah, blah, blah. I kind of feel like having fun, and the Rise will enable me to do some laps with lots of climbing that would be a beat down, otherwise. Oh, and at about 38 lbs, I could pedal it all day, if necessary.

Do I need it? Absolutely not. Do I care? Absolutely not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Juansan said:


> "In three years, I've encountered only one e-bike owner who actually *deserved* his machine, a man with a spinal injury who would otherwise have been unable to ride. I will never begrudge someone the thrill of cruising on two wheels, and e-bikes do have a reason to exist.
> But to everyone who doesn't have a medical excuse-go ride a real bike."
> (Copied from a online article in Outside Mag.) One more fool.
> I'm not against those who buy an E-bike for transportation in place of a car. In my original post I should have been clear that I was sharing my opinion about E-MTB's and not all E-Bikes in general. I think its great to see people outside getting a moderate amount of exercise who might otherwise, do to age or lack of fitness, not ride at all, but I draw the line at E-MTB's and for various reasons. Number one, regardless of the rider needing to push the pedals to engage the motor it is still a motorized vehicle and does not belong on trails. If the area is a designated riding park and allows E-MTB's then fine. Luckily most trail systems do not allow E-MTB's hopefully this won't change despite the efforts of the corporate lobby to change these restrictions. Number Two, the environment. If you are using an E-bike in place of a car then you are benefiting the environment. If on the other hand you are using an E-MTB to haul your lazy ass on trails then you are doing more harm then good. Why ? The battery. The cost to the environment and in turn to humans regarding the extraction and processing of the materials used in Lithium batteries is high. Lithium mines, in dry areas such as in Bolivia, are using large amounts a water in the extraction process. Cobalt mining is primarily done in the Congo need I say more. Its hard to be a total environmentalist when Aluminum and Carbon Fiber are the prominent materials used for frame construction and your phone and laptop all use Lithium batteries but every little bit helps. Only 5% of Lithium Ion batteries are recycled.
> ...


Deserved, really? This is more of a post that would have appeared about 5 years ago. Its stale now.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

prj71 said:


> Not stirring the pot. Serious question.
> 
> If a person purchases an e-bike with the claim that they are doing it because they have leg, knee, back, neck, ankle injury or whatever it may be and now they can ride up hills and farther out on the trail with an e-bike...
> 
> ...


Sorry I got PO'd at your serious question. I took it wrong. It's actually a fair question.

Personally I'm not physically impaired (just mentally  ) so I can't speak for others. So I'll speak for myself. My ebike weighs 15# more than my human powered FS bike, so that's another half a bicycle right there. No small amount, I admit. But I can pedal it without electric assistance. And I would / will do so if I have to -- I'm glad it's got pedals for such an instance. But whenever I want to risk serious trouble by being a long way from civilization with a heavy bike (250#) that has no pedals and would be a royal pain to push even on level ground, then I'll ride my off-road motorcycle.

At least I can pick my ebike up to put it on my car's hitch rack. Can't do that with the dirt bike. 
=sParty


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

prj71 said:


> What was interesting is how fast you could ride it up a hill. Faster than a strictly human powered bike. Made me wonder how that would work out if I'm busting my ass climbing a hill and then all of sudden Mr. Mountain McE-bike Face comes flying up behind me.


You may be over thinking this. Why not simply slow down as you approach the non-assist rider, smile and say something nice to your fellow mountain biker as you pass - then continue up the hill, probably slow at first and then faster once the guy can't see you anymore.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Jack7782 said:


> You may be over thinking this. Why not simply slow down as you approach the non-assist rider, smile and say something nice to your fellow mountain biker as you pass - then continue up the hill, probably slow at first and then faster once the guy can't see you anymore.


A lot of the single track trails I ride there is no room to pass on the uphill. If Mr. E-bike comes up behind me he'll have to wait at the bottom of the hill or stop his momentum half way up.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

prj71 said:


> A lot of the single track trails I ride there is no room to pass on the uphill. If Mr. E-bike comes up behind me he'll have to wait at the bottom of the hill or stop his momentum half way up.


Yeah, I know trails like that. What I would do is ride behind the guy, say Hi and see if he waves you past. Main thing is not to piss him off, right?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

prj71 said:


> At least the motorcycle is half the price of an e-bike.
> 
> View attachment 1918198
> 
> ...


Ha! Half the price of a really nice mountain bike, too.

Though at 6'2" I wouldn't fit on that KLX - designed for the shorter rider. Sweet deal for the beginning dirt rider, though.
=sParty


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

A contingency plan is must. Same concept as carrying repair tools.
Something goes wrong with any bike especially an ebike, far away from help, could be dicey.
So if using the bike to overcome some physical adversity, or go past your normal limits, plan well.


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## rockdoganoff (Jun 5, 2014)

jimbones said:


> I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


I'm 60 and live in an olympian producing mountain town full of athletic identity and have mtbiked since 1984 (rockhopper)
20 yrs later in 2004, I was the first of our riding group to get a 29er (sugar 29) and was called a cheater. We all know how that turned out.
3 weeks ago I bought a Levo SL comp carbon and feel like I just stumbled out of a revival tent or sweat lodge with a head full of ayahuasca having seen the light and drunk the Kool-Aid. I love riding and realized that my ego was the only thing holding me back for the last year. 
So psyched to get back to the mtns and my home trails this spring. Game. Changer. I think the lightweight e-mtbike genre is going to be off the richter popular...


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

prj71 said:


> At least the motorcycle is half the price of an e-bike.
> 
> View attachment 1918198
> 
> ...


The bike you listed is a kids bike. A real dirt bike is well over 10k and that's before you put ok any guards, tires, bibs, motor work, suspension, etc to make it race ready. When people say mountain biking is a more expensive sport than dirt biking, they are not serious dirt bikers.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

prj71 said:


> I tried a Specialized Turbo Levo once at a bike demo. Got to ride ~4 miles of trail with it that day. It was heavy and even on the lowest assist setting the smallest hills were effortless. What was interesting is how fast you could ride it up a hill. Faster than a strictly human powered bike. Made me wonder how that would work out if I'm busting my ass climbing a hill and then all of sudden Mr. Mountain McE-bike Face comes flying up behind me.


I climb my local singletrack at 6-8 mph on my ebike, and 4-6 mph on my normal bike. Really not that much of a difference. Just because an ebike enables you to ride like a dick, doesn't mean that you should or that the majority of the people will.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

prj71 said:


> So all you e-bike folks complaining that you have injuries and have had surgeries that prevent you from riding as far and long as you used to...whatchya gonna do if your e-bike breaks down 10 miles from the trailhead and is not repairable?
> 
> Is your body capable of walking and pushing a 50lb e-bike 10 miles down the trail back to the trailhead?
> 
> ...


Where do you live where ebikes aren't taking over the trail systems yet? On my last ride the majority of the enduro/dh oriented riders were on ebikes and most were young, fit, and healthy. Just because these forums have a large user base of old dudes, doesn't mean that applies to the full mountain bike community.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Haters gonna hate.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

RBoardman said:


> Where do you live where ebikes aren't taking over the trail systems yet? On my last ride the majority of the enduro/dh oriented riders were on ebikes and most were young, fit, and healthy. Just because these forums have a large user base of old dudes, doesn't mean that applies to the full mountain bike community.


I'm gonna get an ebike within the next couple of years, but in northern Utah where I live (and Moab, where I was this last weekend) I haven't seen that many ebikes on the trails.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

RBoardman said:


> Where do you live where ebikes aren't taking over the trail systems yet? On my last ride the majority of the enduro/dh oriented riders were on ebikes and most were young, fit, and healthy. Just because these forums have a large user base of old dudes, doesn't mean that applies to the full mountain bike community.


Where do you live where they ARE taking over the trail systems?

I saw 2 e-bikes on the trails yesterday riding together. They had music playing out loud, no helmets, the bikes had built in taillights which I noticed because it was dusk. Didn't really notice if the throttle/ rheostat was twist grip or pedal activated. That doesn't even matter. They weren't hurting anyone or riding reckless or anything, but I still think that non-motorized trails as these are, should remain non-motorized simply because once people like me get ahold of e-bikes, much higher speeds on the trails are going to be encountered more often with many of those being beginners.

Thankful that so far e-bikes are being shunned from Central TX trails and it appears elsewhere in the USA they are not being embraced either.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> Thankful that so far e-bikes are being shunned from Central TX trails and it appears elsewhere in the USA they are not being embraced either.


This will not last long. Follow the money.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Suns_PSD said:


> Where do you live where they ARE taking over the trail systems?
> 
> I saw 2 e-bikes on the trails yesterday riding together. They had music playing out loud, no helmets, the bikes had built in taillights which I noticed because it was dusk. Didn't really notice if the throttle/ rheostat was twist grip or pedal activated. That doesn't even matter. They weren't hurting anyone or riding reckless or anything, but I still think that non-motorized trails as these are, should remain non-motorized simply because once people like me get ahold of e-bikes, much higher speeds on the trails are going to be encountered more often with many of those being beginners.
> 
> Thankful that so far e-bikes are being shunned from Central TX trails and it appears elsewhere in the USA they are not being embraced either.


SF Bay Area and Santa Cruz, Ca. It is not uncommon to go to a busy riding spot and the see the majority of the riders on ebikes. And I'd say only ~20% of those ebikers aren't "real" mountain bikers and can't ride and/or have no trail etiquette. There is still hate towards ebikes, but it's passed the point where it matters anymore.

One difference around these parts is that nearly every single trail worth riding is illegal. There is tons of great riding, it's just all off-map, user created, secret stuff. So saying "ebikes will ruin access" is not a valid argument here.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

RBoardman said:


> SF Bay Area and Santa Cruz, Ca. It is not uncommon to go to a busy riding spot and the see the majority of the riders on ebikes. And I'd say only ~20% of those ebikers aren't "real" mountain bikers and can't ride and/or have no trail etiquette. There is still hate towards ebikes, but it's passed the point where it matters anymore.
> 
> One difference around these parts is that nearly every single trail worth riding is illegal. There is tons of great riding, it's just all off-map, user created, secret stuff. So saying "ebikes will ruin access" is not a valid argument here.


Interesting. I find the percentage of people who can't ride/have no trail etiquette with almost no ebikes in use is very small. 20% is huge!


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

MSU Alum said:


> Interesting. I find the percentage of people who can't ride/have no trail etiquette with almost no ebikes in use is very small. 20% is huge!


Like I stated above, I live in California. There are just a larger population of those type of people here, in my eyes anyways.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

My father is in his 60s and picked up a Trek e-bike hardtail that he uses mostly for riding on the street/bike lanes down in Florida. He loves it to death. I never thought I'd see him on a bicycle! He's beat up from military service and had both of his knees replaced a couple of times over the last two decades. He loves the freedom that an e-bike provides and he can get a little bit of exercise just riding around the area.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Juansan said:


> Disclaimer, is this FAKE NEWS or the future of human powered Mt. Biking ?


Hydrogen cells, here we go again. Not practical for the last 60 years. As far away as fusion. Legal? Maybe on the road with license and insurance. Does not meet the standard of e bicycle.
They would have a better chance with the Wankel engine/generator battery.
We have always been just a little bit away from a huge battery breakthrough for the last hundred years.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

PierreR said:


> Hydrogen cells, here we go again. Not practical for the last 60 years. As far away as fusion. Legal? Maybe on the road with license and insurance. Does not meet the standard of e bicycle.
> They would have a better chance with the Wankel engine/generator battery.
> We have always been just a little bit away from a huge battery breakthrough for the last hundred years.


One of the coolest airplanes ever made was the SR-71 Blackbird.

It could fly so high that you couldn't see it with the naked eye.

That joke just flew even further over your head.

*response stolen from pinkbike comment section.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

RBoardman said:


> That joke just flew even further over your head.


Assumptions are not automatically facts.
As far as the article goes, its clearly fake news. I still believe in physics. You can't get blood out of a turnip.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

prj71 said:


> Not stirring the pot. Serious question.
> 
> I tried a Specialized Turbo Levo once at a bike demo. Got to ride ~6 miles of trail with it that day. It was heavy and even on the lowest assist setting the smallest hills were effortless. What was interesting is how fast you could ride it up a hill. Faster than a strictly human powered bike. Made me wonder how that would work out if I'm busting my ass climbing a hill and then all of sudden Mr. Mountain McE-bike Face comes flying up behind me.


Same thing that happens when someone faster than you comes up behind you on a mountain bike. They wait until you find a safe place to pull over and let them pass.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Go for it, jimbones. Don't give it a second thought. I would recommend going fro the lightest one you can find. The heavier they are, the worse they handle in slower technical sections and technical climbs. They actually just handle worse everywhere. The newer light ones looks excellent though.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Flyer said:


> The heavier they are, the worse they handle in slower technical sections and technical climbs. They actually just handle worse everywhere.


This is not accurate at all. That's like saying a 2001 stumpjumper handles better than a 2021 stumpy evo because it was lighter. There are so many factors into how a bike handles, weight is just one.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

All the heavy ones suck. Period. Lighter bikes handle much better, as long as you have a good build. My 28 lbs Yeti handles better than any ebike in that 45+ range. My 45 lbs ebike handles way better than the 50-60 lbs ones. Same goes for dirt bikes.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

To each their own. On the trails I ride my 56 lbs Commencal Meta 29 handles better than a Levo SL 10/10 times when I’m the one riding it.


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## Geezergo (Mar 16, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> Me, too. Same age and everything.
> 
> Forgive the people who hate on ebikes, they are simply confused. They think ebiking and regular human-powered biking are the same sport. Actually mountain biking and ebiking are not the same sport. Just as off-road motorcycling is a different sport than mountain biking, so is ebiking. People who understand the distinction have no problem with people engaging in whatever sport they choose.
> 
> ...


Sparticus nailed it. I'm 70 and commute daily on my self built Trek Fuel 80 with 18V 750W kit. I've been buzzed on multi use trails by road bike asshats pedaling dangerously. If we all act responsibly, it will help.

Just because it's new/different is reason enough to ban it. I think there's still a Mississippi law requiring a man to walk carrying a lantern in front of any auto. Sigh.......


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

I will add that trails and fireroads are the perfect for eMTBs and MTBs too. What is wrong with less suffering and more fun anyway?


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## Sarguy (Sep 25, 2010)

Once I tried a demo bike there was no looking back. As an old dude (over 60) I found myself struggling on too many steep climbs risking a coronary  Now I can do a constant ride on my favorite trails without disembarking. I love my new Trek Rail - no going back for me.


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

Always about over 60. Why that age? How about 29.? Or 45? Conspiracy theorists suspect eBike market targeting. Golly, throw in low biking related self esteem.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

prj71 said:


> Funny thing is...The majority of people purchasing e-bikes are those who can pedal and have no physical limitations. The lazies.


The more I read from you, the more I realize you're nothing more than a jerk. 
Hope you get banned. 
Meanwhile, on ignore you go. 
=sParty


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Not being a jerk. Just stating the facts. Look it up. The leading age group of e-bike purchasers is 45-54 year olds and that is overall. Break it out to just mountain bikers and the e-mountain bikers average age is less than 38.


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## Sarguy (Sep 25, 2010)

prj71 said:


> Then when you have a coronary out on the trail...because it's an e-bike you'll be farther from the trailhead than you were on a regular bike and you will have second coronary trying to push that 50lb bike back to your car.


But I'll die happy


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

prj71 said:


> Then when you have a coronary out on the trail...because it's an e-bike you'll be farther from the trailhead than you were on a regular bike and you will have second coronary trying to push that 50lb bike back to your car.


I am beginning to believe that you simply hate e bikes and all people who ride them. You believe they are stupid and lazy and could not plan around battery range and the e bikes break down all the time. I don't push my car when it quits why should I push my bike. I have AAA+ a cell phone and plenty of friends. 
You sir, try to justify everything based on no pain, no gain. I definitely do not see biking as enjoyable from that perspective and certainly did not base my purchases based on avoiding exercise. I based my purchase strictly on the fun factor and nothing else. 
You need not feel sorry for me. I don't feel one damned bit sorry or cheated riding a big fat ass e bike. 
You probably will never get the fact that the problem with e bikes in entirely in your own mind and not based in reality. You will never cheapen my experience based on your ranting. Go ride your bike more and try to enjoy what life you have left.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

prj71 said:


> Funny thing is...The majority of people purchasing e-bikes are those who can pedal and have no physical limitations. The lazies.


I've got one on order, and you are correct on the first two counts. But I'm sure not lazy, but then again, that fact really doesn't matter to you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

prj71 said:


> Not being a jerk. Just stating the facts. Look it up. The leading age group of e-bike purchasers is 45-54 year olds and that is overall. Break it out to just mountain bikers and the e-mountain bikers average age is less than 38.


In Europe where that has e bikes earlier, all the young, fit, skilled mountain bikers are on e bikes.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

prj71 said:


> I don't hate e-bikes or the people who ride them. I do question the lazy part...especially when some of the people buying them are young and fit. I also don't think they belong on the trails that were created, worked on and built by the folks who pedal.
> 
> And it's not about planning around battery range. Most of the articles I'm reading about e-mountain bikers and posts I've seen by them...They all claim that they can ride further out into the trail system than they used to because they have some sort of physical limitation that wouldn't allow them to otherwise on a regular MTB. Whether it's bad knees or a bad back or some other physical injury. So then I ask the question...Now that you got this e-bike and your 10 miles back on the trail vs. 3 miles...whatchya gonna do if the derailleur breaks or the shifter breaks or the free hub breaks? I've had all three of those things happen. Are you and your bad knees or bad back going to be able to push the 50 lb bike back to the trailhead? Not every place that people ride has a cell signal.
> 
> And if you are basing your purchase on the fun factor...Motorbikes are pretty fun. You can get a nice little Honda motor bike for less money than an e-bike.


You do realize that everything that come through in your posts screams of an elitist attitude towards e bikes and e bikers. Most members Interested in this forum and reading this thread are likely to get that impression of you.

What comes through loud and clear in this post is that you believe e bikers to be engaged in a slob sport concocted just for slobs. You believe that e bikers would never work on trail maintenance. You believe that e bikers are stupid, would never have a plan and regularly put themselves into dangerous situations from which extracting themselves would be life threatening. 
You also believe that I might be happier on an ICE motorcycle so that I would not have to put out any effort. In other words, a Slob. Of course you are entitled to your opinions as I am entitled to my interpretations of your last post.

If my interpretation of your post is considerably different than what you intended to convey then you need to choose your words more carefully so they portray your real thoughts.


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

RBoardman said:


> Where do you live where ebikes aren't taking over the trail systems yet? On my last ride the majority of the enduro/dh oriented riders were on ebikes and most were young, fit, and healthy. Just because these forums have a large user base of old dudes, doesn't mean that applies to the full mountain bike community.


Here in MA ebikes are not allowed on any bike paths or sidewalks. Streets only.

I do see ebikes on paved multi use trails, usually it is road ebikes and it is older people riding them, often a mix of people where some are on regular bikes and some on ebikes. The other day saw a bunch of kids on regular bikes and two moms on ebikes trying to keep up with them (ahem...).

Have not seen any ebikes on MTB trails.
There are some multi use trails in the state that allow dirt bikes, if dirt bikes are allowed then ebikes are also allowed.


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## EMTB'er (Mar 25, 2021)

jimbones said:


> I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


I recommend doing a rental and trying one, that is what sold me. Game changer is the only word to describe it. At my age and fitness it allows me to ride further, longer and more often. I bought a Levo and am addicted, I ride it 4-5 days a week now while I was riding my old bike on weekends only. Such a blast and who cares what traditionalists think. I do my ride and others do theirs. After trying one if you buy you won't be disappointed except with having to wait for it to arrive!


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

An anecdote:

58 year old here.

I just picked up a Specialized Levo Comp. I took it out for my first trail ride yesterday at an urban park where I have literally thousands of miles ridden, have personally scratched out and maintained miles of the trails, am very familiar with the system.

Going into the ride, I expected to blast and PR a bunch of my Strava times on segments I uploaded, maybe even a KOM or two. Well, guess what, it didn’t go down that way.

I rode mostly at the medium power setting, rode a somewhat relaxed-to-fast pace, got a couple PRs and one Top 10 in the 8th spot. Surprisingly, I didn’t touch some of my faster runs on my conventional bikes. I realized there are some very fast riders on conventional bikes whose times I’ll never touch, on an e-bike or no.

So, all that to say, I didn’t look threatening or imposing out in the park, like a guy on a motorcycle. I just looked like a guy riding a bike. AND, I had more fun on a bike than I’ve had in years!

[email protected]$& the haters.


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## Whippa (Feb 15, 2021)

IMO E-bikes are great if you're in a where your knees can't hold up to much belting. Some people seem to think e-bikes are rubbish. Not even. Sure they have obvious downsides like weight meaning less agility but heck, it doesn't matter that much! If you're in a position where you could use an e-bike then use one.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Based on what some folks have said within their thread replies here, the following might appear to be the natural progression of two-wheeled vehicles during the life of an average rider:

Young & fit: *mountain bike*
Older, weaker &/or partially broken body: *ebike*
If true, then it follows:
Ancient &/or virtually unable to move: *motocross bike*

Am I right?
=sParty


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> Based on what some folks have said within their thread replies here, the following might appear to be the natural progression of two-wheeled vehicles during the life of an average rider:
> 
> Young & fit: *mountain bike*
> Older, weaker &/or partially broken body: *ebike*
> ...


Whuh??

How does one make that jump in logic?

I just wanna ride bikes as long as I can, conventional and where legal and appropriate, e-bikes.

I've ridden motocross/dirt/trail motorcycles a bit, and at my peak of fitness, found that they require the most fitness and reaction capabilities. Of course, I did this on legal OHV trails, not at my local urban park or on non-motorized trails anywhere.

When abilities and physical capabilities have diminished considerably, the e-bike is the safest mechanical way to get out on trails, experience the outdoors, and have some real fun, IMO.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

EKram said:


> Always about over 60. Why that age? How about 29.? Or 45? Conspiracy theorists suspect eBike market targeting. Golly, throw in low biking related self esteem.


Cuz that's the age when most dudes have the money for Corvettes, e-bikes, and a smokin' sub-35 y.o. new wife.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Whuh??
> 
> How does one make that jump in logic?
> 
> ...


Sorry I forgot the smiley . Allow me to explain. My previous post was utter facetiousness. Pro motocross riders are the most fit human beings on the planet. It's just that many folks who frequent these forums seem to feel that one must be slightly infirm or aged in order to justify* riding a two-wheeled machine that includes any sort of motor (in this case I'm referring to ebikes). So I'm simply extending their logic.

You see if you need to be at least semi-infirm/old in order to "deserve" an ebike (cuz motor) -- even tho one must still pedal in order to engage said motor -- then it follows that these folks who believe motors do everything would think that a motocross bike would require zero effort to pilot. Cuz you don't even have to pedal at all! What could be easier?

Not my logic, mind you -- their logic.

I ride my ebike because it's a blast. Same reason I ride my mountain bike. Same reason I ride my off-road motorcycle. None of this riding has anything to do with my inabilities. It has to do with having two-wheeled fun. Some days I'm on one, some days I'm aboard the other. I don't "need" any of them. Well, except that I "need" all of them. 
=sParty

*As if anyone needs to justify anything to anyone else. Don't want to ride an ebike? Then don't get one.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> Sorry I forgot the smiley . Allow me to explain. My previous post was utter facetiousness. Pro motocross riders are the most fit human beings on the planet. It's just that many folks who frequent these forums seem to feel that one must be slightly infirm or aged in order to justify* riding a two-wheeled machine that includes any sort of motor (in this case I'm referring to ebikes). So I'm simply extending their logic.
> 
> You see if you need to be at least semi-infirm/old in order to "deserve" an ebike (cuz motor) -- even tho one must still pedal in order to engage said motor -- then it follows that these folks who believe motors do everything would think that a motocross bike would require zero effort to pilot. Cuz you don't even have to pedal at all! What could be easier?
> 
> ...


Damn, I hate it when sarcasm is lost on me 😂


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

Reading posts....I’d be careful with describing an addiction to ebikes or anything. Sure, something like popcorn is on the low end of danger. As we know, substance abuse is on the high end of danger. Include sugar on the list with the other usuals-we know what they are.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Cuz that's the age when most dudes have the money for Corvettes, e-bikes, and a smokin' sub-35 y.o. new wife.


I'm 3 years early but will skip the corvette and new wife, altho one of those sugar babies I hear about on the internet might work


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Suns_PSD said:


> Where do you live where they ARE taking over the trail systems?


Definitely not New England.

I haven't seen one yet.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Glide the Clyde said:


> Cuz that's the age when most dudes have the money for Corvettes, e-bikes, and a smokin' sub-35 y.o. new wife.


Some things are best "rented"!
Pick 2.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Absolutely get an e-bike but if you are a strong rider, something like the Orbea Rise or Specialized Levo SL will be much lighter and more enjoyable since they handle better. Don't even give a second thought to the haters. Most of them are just bitter people. They think all e-bikers are the kind that fly by you and are discourteous.


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## Wooly Worm (Mar 15, 2015)

Catmandoo said:


> Are they legal in any trails you hope to hope to ride ?. They are illegal on mt. bike trails in NY State.


 Comments about ebikes being "illegal" on certain trails make me think of other discriminatory acts perpetrated on others based on irrational fear instead of fact. It's sad and dishearting and make zero sense and some people are proud of it or think it's ok.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Wooly Worm said:


> Comments about ebikes being "illegal" on certain trails make me think of other discriminatory acts perpetrated on others based on irrational fear instead of fact. It's sad and dishearting and make zero sense and some people are proud of it or think it's ok.


Sounds dramatic.


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## mercurial17 (Mar 16, 2021)

prj71 said:


> Funny thing is...The majority of people purchasing e-bikes are those who can pedal and have no physical limitations. The lazies.


Naw bro, you got it all wrong. I'm an emtb rider in the best shape of my life, we just want to ride twice as hard, twice as fast, twice as far as you. And grin the whole time we do it.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

mercurial17 said:


> Naw bro, you got it all wrong. I'm an emtb rider in the best shape of my life, we just want to ride twice as hard, twice as fast, twice as far as you. And grin the whole time we do it.


Bingo! Same here! 

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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Wait a minute. Are you guys saying that you’re into having fun on two wheels whether or not said fun is achieved exclusively via human power?

Blasphemy!
=sParty


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> Sorry I forgot the smiley . Allow me to explain. My previous post was utter facetiousness. Pro motocross riders are the most fit human beings on the planet. It's just that many folks who frequent these forums seem to feel that one must be slightly infirm or aged in order to justify* riding a two-wheeled machine that includes any sort of motor (in this case I'm referring to ebikes). So I'm simply extending their logic.
> 
> You see if you need to be at least semi-infirm/old in order to "deserve" an ebike (cuz motor) -- even tho one must still pedal in order to engage said motor -- then it follows that these folks who believe motors do everything would think that a motocross bike would require zero effort to pilot. Cuz you don't even have to pedal at all! What could be easier?
> 
> ...


I'm with you man, rock on brother 

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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Wait a minute. Are you guys saying that you're into having fun on two wheels whether or not said fun is achieved exclusively via human power?
> 
> Blasphemy!
> =sParty


The horror!! 

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## Wooly Worm (Mar 15, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Sounds dramatic.


Probably why you were drawn to it.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Wooly Worm said:


> Probably why you were drawn to it.


I do enjoy comedy.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Wooly Worm said:


> Comments about ebikes being "illegal" on certain trails make me think of other discriminatory acts perpetrated on others based on irrational fear instead of fact. It's sad and dishearting and make zero sense and some people are proud of it or think it's ok.


One issue is the difficulty of separating the Class 3 non-throttle e-bikes from those with throttles. We see damage on our local Mt. bike trails from what are essentially motorcycles illegally using trails. It's not fear, it's fact. Is one reason NY State refuses to authorize the use of any e-bikes in any paved or dirt trail. They've nobody to enforce the law for one thing and is an issue.


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

Put a throttle on an e-bike--instant motorcycle! I did not know that....


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

Catmandoo said:


> One issue is the difficulty of separating the Class 3 non-throttle e-bikes from those with throttles. We see damage on our local Mt. bike trails from what are essentially motorcycles illegally using trails. It's not fear, it's fact. Is one reason NY State refuses to authorize the use of any e-bikes in any paved or dirt trail. They've nobody to enforce the law for one thing and is an issue.


Just curious...what emtb's are you seeing that are doing this damage, and how are they doing it? This is a question, not a slam. I ride dirt motos in addition to mtb's. I understand how a dirt moto can damage the conventional mtb trail, but I'm not up on the emtb use. I recently built up an '08 Santa Cruz Nomad with a BBSHD mid-drive which definitely has a lot of power, and it has a throttle. Unless I were to sort of pick up the back of the bike up a bit and hit the throttle and then raise and lower the spinning wheel onto the ground to try and dig a hole, I'm not able to put more power to the ground than my tires will handle anyway.

I helped design and build our very popular mtb trail in my area about 20 years ago. I have some decent experience in how trails get used, abused, and maintained. The only damage I see consistently...mother nature's rain erosion aside...is from "skidders" and people riding the trail when it's muddy...even when we have the gate locked. We allow emtb's.

Now, maybe you're talking about some of those rigs I've only seen pics of that are basically electric motorcycles because of their weight, size, and such. Most of those I've seen in pics use very little in the way of bicycle components because they would destroy them. I am curious on your observation in your area's trail damage and not picking a fight.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

There's a group of 4 that live local to a trail system I use predominantly. I have seen these very same 4 men on multiple occasions, typically a Sunday morning. One fellow rider had a collision on a 2 way trail with one of these men, who was riding single track with poor visibility at a high rate of speed. What's noticible is how the trail gets chewed up from the tires when they accelerate, lots of dirt thrown aside. You can see how the dirt gets displaced from acceration. Mt. Bikes don't do that to this extent. It's much more noticible that a powered bike has passed than a mt. bike. As well, on one occasion I could see the racing stripes up the backs of the riders that is soft and wet dirt displaced as they accelerate up a hill. That is not good for a trail. Others in my mt. bike club have noticed much of the same and commented on our FB page. We are told to call the local park police. The typical response is of "what do you expect us to do about it".

And as note that these look like your everyday e-bikes, big battery on the downtube, probably a 4-5" tire, yet close up you see the throttle,. As well I've seen them start up from being stopped. They do not start by pedaling, they use a throttle to get going and don't do a lot of pedaling. These are for all practical purposes motorcycles. At the occasion my riding buddy had his collision, we were all stopped and I commented to then that the e-bikes were illegal on the trails. The response was "Yeah, we know".


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

@Catmandoo...what kind of soil do you all have there? Is it softer, loamy soil or more hardpacked? We have pretty hard soil with gravels and a decent amount of rock present, so it only gets torn up after a lot of rain while it's still saturated...it can groove like a WWI trench. We put out a FB announcement and lock the gate. It is one of the advantages of having it on city land that is under control of the bike club for maintenance and policing.

So far we've had no heartburn over emtb's at our trail. My BBSHD build type is the most powerful motor level we've seen here and haven't encountered any of the "Suron-level" types...motorcycle chain driven, small motorcycle tires, etc. When/if we do, we may have to address that. We can kick people off here due to bad behavior, recklessness, jumping the fence, etc. I think in 20 years, we've only had to kick one person off, and if they are "kicked off", they go on a trespass list that can be enforced by LE.

I also work at a friend's bike shop in my retired years, so I run into all types of people and riders. We have a Trek Rail 7 demo emtb. It has generated great interest and pleasure along with sales. As far as throttles go, I don't think anyone here has any beef with someone who might get rolling with a throttle or use it in hairy conditions...which we have a few of...at least as long as all the usual courtesies and safe riding techniques are applied in proximity of other riders. I can tell you this...most of these mid-drive kits applied to an actual mountain bike, even with a high quality battery, have very limited time and range if you just try to "live" off the throttle with limited pedaling.

Back to the riders you mention...it would be interesting to know what they're riding.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Note that I have no personal objections to dirt bikes/OHV's, etc.... as long as they are used legally and in an area that can support the use, though I do agree with Edward Abbey that "industrial tourism" is inappropriate in many places and occasions.

The local soil on Long Island is soft dirt, some sand in spots, zero rocks (only one trail system has any meaningful rocks) short hills that sometimes have steep inclines. These hills (glacial moraine) are the trouble spots for the newer e-bikes in that the trail can usually support the up/down traffic of a non-motor powered mt. bike without, or minimal damage to the soft soil, but a powered e-bike might chew up the dirt and cause serious erosion. My local club - CLIMB has built near 200 miles of trails and in some cases has gone back to re-route trails that started as hiking trails and suffered damage when mt. bikes started using them. Thus the more straight up/down trails have been re-located to switchback type trails to eliminate erosion. Not all trail systems have seen this repair and relocation and in some spots the e-bikes are riding on these and causing obvious damage. 

The bottom line in this is that the State of NY has made these trails (dirt and paved) off-limits to e-bikes OF ANY KIND. I see Class 3 e-bikes all the time on the assorted paved paths, I've really no issue with these, they are pedal necessary bikes that only offer an assist to the rider. These type of e-bikes will likely get an approval at the state level in the near future and for good reason. The Class 1 and 2 throttle bikes will not and for good reason. Juries out on the appropriateness of Class 3 on dirt trails as it's somewhat unknown as to any additional damage they might cause, but I suspect they will get approval as I'm not seeing how they can cause damage at their limited power output levels.,


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

Catmandoo said:


> And as note that these look like your everyday e-bikes, big battery on the downtube, probably a 4-5" tire, yet close up you see the throttle,. As well I've seen them start up from being stopped. They do not start by pedaling, they use a throttle to get going and don't do a lot of pedaling. These are for all practical purposes motorcycles.


It's unfortunate you didn't get more details on these bikes at the time. It takes a LOT of power to spin a 4-5" fat tire unless the ground is so soft you'd be spinning a regular MTB tire just as much with less power. Fat tires are generally much easier on the trail than regular MTB tires--much harder to spin on climbs and can brake harder without skidding. I suspect the bikes in question were well beyond the Class 1-3 power limit of 750W and you are mis-attributing their behavior to the existence of a throttle.

A strong rider pedaling with full pedal assist is capable of putting more torque to the rear tire than a rider on the same bike using a throttle only. There are other reasons one may frown upon use of a throttle for public trails but I don't think trail damage being caused by the existence of a throttle is a legitimate one. If trail damage is the worry I'd focus more on ensuring the bikes are legal Class 1-3 and not producing more than 750 Watts.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Jon A said:


> It's unfortunate you didn't get more details on these bikes at the time.


I would have to pretend to be interested in the particular bikes, buddy up, etc... to get that close a look and in truth I just want to get on my way. The park cops will catch up to them at some point, they've already confiscated a half dozen quads that go in this park in winter.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

Catmandoo said:


> Note that I have no personal objections to dirt bikes/OHV's, etc.... as long as they are used legally and in an area that can support the use, though I do agree with Edward Abbey that "industrial tourism" is inappropriate in many places and occasions.
> 
> The local soil on Long Island is soft dirt, some sand in spots, zero rocks (only one trail system has any meaningful rocks) short hills that sometimes have steep inclines. These hills (glacial moraine) are the trouble spots for the newer e-bikes in that the trail can usually support the up/down traffic of a non-motor powered mt. bike without, or minimal damage to the soft soil, but a powered e-bike might chew up the dirt and cause serious erosion. My local club - CLIMB has built near 200 miles of trails and in some cases has gone back to re-route trails that started as hiking trails and suffered damage when mt. bikes started using them. Thus the more straight up/down trails have been re-located to switchback type trails to eliminate erosion. Not all trail systems have seen this repair and relocation and in some spots the e-bikes are riding on these and causing obvious damage.
> 
> The bottom line in this is that the State of NY has made these trails (dirt and paved) off-limits to e-bikes OF ANY KIND. I see Class 3 e-bikes all the time on the assorted paved paths, I've really no issue with these, they are pedal necessary bikes that only offer an assist to the rider. These type of e-bikes will likely get an approval at the state level in the near future and for good reason. The Class 1 and 2 throttle bikes will not and for good reason. Juries out on the appropriateness of Class 3 on dirt trails as it's somewhat unknown as to any additional damage they might cause, but I suspect they will get approval as I'm not seeing how they can cause damage at their limited power output levels.,


A Class 1 eBike does not have a throttle.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

hikerdave said:


> A Class 1 eBike does not have a throttle.


Thank you, I had to go re-educate myself for what I thought I knew. Throttle e-bikes are Class 2


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## Jake January (Sep 12, 2014)

jimbones said:


> I am in my early 60's. I was thinking maybe a ebike. However I see there is a fairly strong backlash against them. However considering how beat up my body is and my age is it still a cardinal sin for someone in my position to get an ebilke? I currently ride a Trek Fuel 9.8 (26 inch). Thanks in advance for your advice.


Last year converted two old bikes to e-bike. Got about 10k kms on them.
Went back to my regular Surly Troll and noticed how I'd lost a lot of leg condition.
Back to riding the Surly regularly now, slowly building leg strength again.
I'm gonna wait till I'm 80 to try the ebike again.. (I'm 65 now)


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Okay, I just jumped to page 7 without reading all the entries, but I'm another vote to get the bike you want. I talk about it with my 50 year old buddies and we all want e-bikes and don't mind other people having them. The internet is just harsh, and I think on trails you could keep it calm when passing someone so they didn't even realize you were on an e-bike. So just do it!

(I took one on a 8-mile mtb test ride and it was still energetic and tiring... it was just faster! It was awesome! I'm going to get one by 56 or so I'm sure.)


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

63 here and I think yer too young unless riding bike parks and want to avoid lift lines


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## fredman1085 (10 mo ago)

MSU Alum said:


> Yeah, I'm 68 and don't have an ebike yet. Live at 6500 feet and climb from there to 9500 feet with my 30 year old son.
> There's a fine line, between a grin and a grimace!
> I'll probably get an ebike about the time I turn 70. But that's just because they look like fun.


One of the main reasons I started thinking about and eventually buying an e-mtb myself was because when I road with my son, I'd see him for about 30-60 seconds and then he was gone. He'd wait at the end of the trail sections but it was just a rinse and repeat. I used to race (years ago, just getting back in) so I understand his not wanting to soft pedal waiting for me. Of course, there's no helping my descending as fast is him but the major time is in the climbs 

Now, I'm riding more than I have for years, my legs are burning by the time I get back home, and I'm losing weight. Those who don't think you get workout riding an e-bike either never road one, or used boost/turbo the whole time. That's fine if you do, but don't then turn around and whine you're not getting a work out. It's like wearing a raincoat in the shower and complaining you didn't get wet.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Just a reminder of Ebike class 1 - 3
Class 1 - limited to under 1hp or 750watts, motor shuts off at 20mph.
Class 2 - limited to under 1hp or 750watts, motor shuts off at 20mph, but has a throttle.
Class 3 - limited to under 1hp or 750watts, motor shuts off at 28mph. 

For mountain biking, we usually talk about class 1 only. Under 1hp/750watts, doing a burn out is impossible, unless you unweigh the rear of the ebike, but you can do that on a regular bike as well. 

The above ebikes have similar trail erosion affects on trails, which generally are minimal affect. Remember the biggest issue that harm the trails the most is from mother nature: storms, heavy winds, long hot dry summers, fires, etc...


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## markloch (Jul 15, 2021)

fredman1085 said:


> Now, I'm riding more than I have for years, my legs are burning by the time I get back home, and I'm losing weight. Those who don't think you get workout riding an e-bike either never road one, or used boost/turbo the whole time. That's fine if you do, but don't then turn around and whine you're not getting a work out. It's like wearing a raincoat in the shower and complaining you didn't get wet.


Same here. When I first got my bike me:bike power ratio was about 25:75, now on a good day its 40:60, my rides are 12 miles/1200 vert (quick lunch/after work ride) to 40+ miles and 6000+ vert (extra battery) on fire roads and single track (though on those longer rides ratio is more like 35:65. Still, that 35% amounts to 2k+ calories. I'm 61 yo, 6'4" 225# - me+pack+bike are close to 300#.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

markloch said:


> Same here. When I first got my bike me:bike power ratio was about 25:75, now on a good day its 40:60, my rides are 12 miles/1200 vert (quick lunch/after work ride) to 40+ miles and 6000+ vert (extra battery) on fire roads and single track (though on those longer rides ratio is more like 35:65. Still, that 35% amounts to 2k+ calories. I'm 61 yo, 6'4" 225# - me+pack+bike are close to 300#.



Riding options really open up. And having assist to start a ride with a big climb is pretty motivating. And the human body, especially an older model is quite stiff at start-up but usually loosens up and lubricates the joints after 15 minutes of fresh air and pedaling.

So usually, a rider with an emtb will ride longer and ride more days in the week.

More riding is good. More riders is good too IMHO.


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## MtnBkrBob (Aug 15, 2007)

Jimbones - In your early 60s, you shouldn’t be concerned about “backlash” from others. Buy whatever bike you want. I do recommend following all applicable laws. We have class I road & mountain e-bikes and absolutely love them.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Just saw a couple on some Townie's with a rear Bafang hub motor, I built my own ebike from a Townie 21D but I'd personally look for a frame without holes in the frame to hide cabling. The biggest advantage is you are getting out riding with little effort to get there, if it was not electric you would just say no and thats the end of that, with ebikes it opens things up for you. Whatever you do, do not lock your bicycle up with anything other then a yellow Kryptonite Lock or something similar and throw that cable lock out.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

Do it 


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## manitunc (Jun 1, 2019)

Should I drive a motorized wheelchair on the road, because it has a motor. How about a golf cart. Should I ride my ebike on motorcycle trails and get run over by dirt bikes running at 50 mph? Motorized wheel chairs can run on sidewalks, which were built for pedestrians because they are a substitute for walking. No one is demanding they get their own sidewalks or use roads made for other motorized vehicles. Oh, and do I get to climb up the fire road with power and then turn my ebike off for the downhill?


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