# Dream bike: 1996(?) Ritchey P-21



## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

A friend of mine used to have an old Ritchey P-23 back in the day, so I started googling and came across this beauty:










Can anyone shed some light on this model? What year is it? Does it use a 1" or 1-1'8" steerer? (The SID looks pretty recent). Any idea how I could find one, or should I just wait for eBay?

When was the last year that Ritchey made the P-series bikes?

I'm just drooling...TIA!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Looks like Wolfgang Boschitz' bike. Older frame, all new parts hung on it. Most likely a 98 1" SID with swapped lowers. Bike is probably around a 94 or so. 1" headtube.

Not typically the trend here in the VRC to build a bike that way.

www.oldmountainbikes.com is your #1 resource for Ritchey info. Also take a look at the sticky at the top of this forum. Might have more info for you.

Bikes like this are out there...but not a dime a dozen. You'll have to work to find one. Hound eBay every day. Timing and patience. It took me two years to get my P-23 and missed or lost out on several others before I landed a winner.


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## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

Thanks Rumpfy! Yes, that's Boschitz' bike. He's got some crazy bikes in his arsenal.

Do you know when the last year it was that Ritchey made these bikes? Did any of them have a 1-1/8 headset size?

I did come across oldmountainbikes.com actually. Some good info and pics there.

Care to PM me what you got your P-23 for? ;-)


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

...see what I mean bryanus??


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

I think '97 was last year for P-21 but I haven't seen a '98 catalog. Never seen a 1 1/8" headtube on a P-series to date. What size P-21 are you looking for? :ihih:


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

What a b!tchin' looking bike. I love it.

I have no use for period-correct builds. I prefer to build a frame that I like with the parts that I like, regardless of era. This usually works out to a classic mid 90s frame with more modern drivetrain, bars, pedals, and maybe a short-travel Fox fork.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Surely wouldnt mind a bike like that in the stable. Classic for sure.


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## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

I want that one! It looks to be a 17 or 18". I _should_ be riding an 18", but I do prefer smaller bikes, so I like 17's if I can find them. I'm also in love with that paint job. But hey, whatchu got? 

And I agree with Vlad. I like "modernizing" the classics, too.

Found this listing on oldmountainbike.com for a '98 P-20, although it's the only one posted so he may not be correct about the year:

http://www.oldmountainbikes.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=P20 362



kb11 said:


> I think '97 was last year for P-21 but I haven't seen a '98 catalog. Never seen a 1 1/8" headtube on a P-series to date. What size P-21 are you looking for? :ihih:


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## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

Rumpfy said:


> ...Older frame, all new parts hung on it. Most likely a 98 1" SID with swapped lowers. Bike is probably around a 94 or so. 1" headtube.


What do you mean by "swapped lowers"? Are his lowers newer than '98? Are all SID lowers of the same 28mm stanchions interchangeable with each other? How about with Judy stanchions?


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

Here is mine. I think it is a 1996. Not in as good as shape as the other one posted, but it has all the original WCS goodies. I hope get it re-sprayed in the near future. 1" headtube.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

bryanus said:


> A friend of mine used to have an old Ritchey P-23 back in the day, so I started googling and came across this beauty:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks like angles and BB height are srsly altered from using a tall fork. as far as i understand ritcheys are designed w/ long stems in mind. those don't go along well w/ tall front suspension IMHO.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

I think I paid too much

or not enough


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## captain8track (Sep 26, 2008)

I have an Judy SL from 98 it has disc fittings as the sid on the picture. P-21's are the **** it should have topmounts for that real worldcup feeling! But I really like the "neo retro" thing, I'm working on that right now myself.


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## petfox (Apr 29, 2008)

captain8track said:


> I have an Judy SL from 98 it has disc fittings as the sid on the picture. P-21's are the **** it should have topmounts for that real worldcup feeling! But I really like the "neo retro" thing, I'm working on that right now myself.


My P-21 is from 94. It also had the black Ritchey sticker on the down tube, after a respray by Ritchey I got a white sticker. But I don't know if you could come back from the sticker to the year it was buld. 1" of course.


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## kokies (Aug 15, 2007)

Check with /www.hippiesuspension.com, I think they can convert newer RS forks to 1"


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## top_ring (Feb 9, 2004)

J Ro said:


> Here is mine. I think it is a 1996. Not in as good as shape as the other one posted, but it has all the original WCS goodies. I hope get it re-sprayed in the near future. 1" headtube.


That bar angle seems funky. Is that comfortable for you?

Lovely bike.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

top_ring said:


> That bar angle seems funky. Is that comfortable for you?
> 
> Lovely bike.


Thanks
I just noticed that. No, I don't ride it like that. I think I changed something and forgot to straighten the bar. :madman:


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## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

How do you tink they do that? By milling down the steerer? Or by cutting away the stanchions and pressing them into a 1" steerer?

How _do_ they press in those stanchions anyway? I'd think they would just crush while being pressed in.



kokies said:


> Check with /www.hippiesuspension.com, I think they can convert newer RS forks to 1"


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

bryanus said:


> How do you tink they do that? By milling down the steerer? Or by cutting away the stanchions and pressing them into a 1" steerer?
> 
> How _do_ they press in those stanchions anyway? I'd think they would just crush while being pressed in.


Some of the early Sid's were available with a 1" steerer.

Also a 1" Judy bolt on crown will fit the SID lowers after the 1 & 1/8" pressed crown has been carefully removed (cut off). Do a search of this thread, there a few regulars who have completed the job.


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## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

Found out it's a '93 fillet-brazed and 17":

http://oldmountainbikes.com/cgi-bin/bikes.cgi?bike=7P39


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

bryanus said:


> What do you mean by "swapped lowers"? Are his lowers newer than '98? Are all SID lowers of the same 28mm stanchions interchangeable with each other? How about with Judy stanchions?


yes its possible. lowers & uppers of different periods normally fit each other. its compatibility between the internals that are more complicated. 96 judy FSX lowers with 01 sid carbon stantions/crown/steerer.


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## kokies (Aug 15, 2007)

bryanus said:


> How do you tink they do that? By milling down the steerer? Or by cutting away the stanchions and pressing them into a 1" steerer?
> 
> How _do_ they press in those stanchions anyway? I'd think they would just crush while being pressed in.


I believe the original is pressed out and a new one installed. I saw one once on ebay. it was a new sid and said hippietech did the work.


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## bryanus (Jun 1, 2008)

So, let's assume that the length of the stanchions is the same between Judys and SIDs of the same 28mm width (Is that a reasonable assumption?).

If the internals are left to be the whatever was intended for that fork to begin with, the lowers would be interchangeable?

I think you might have to drill the hole in the bottom of Judy lower to fit some internals of some SIDs (because one of the controls ticks out from the bottom of one of the legs).

So, I could have a 28mm Judy upper (with Judy internals), with a SID lower no problem?

Has this been discussed in the suspension forum at all? Anyone have a link? I can never get the search to work very well...

What's the weight of that carbon franken-SID you've got there anyway? ;-)



scant said:


> yes its possible. lowers & uppers of different periods normally fit each other. its compatibility between the internals that are more complicated. 96 judy FSX lowers with 01 sid carbon stantions/crown/steerer.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bryanus said:


> So, let's assume that the length of the stanchions is the same between Judys and SIDs of the same 28mm width (Is that a reasonable assumption?).
> 
> If the internals are left to be the whatever was intended for that fork to begin with, the lowers would be interchangeable?
> 
> ...


The lowers are for the most part the same casting with the SIDs and some of the Judys having a slightly shorter casting and different sized bolt holes in the bottom. I've drilled out some Judy lowers to fit SID internals but I wouldnt recommend it. I don't think the bolt ever sat perfectly flat and caused an issue with the piston/seals inside. Also, the SID stanchion threads differ from the Judy top caps.


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## Ski Legend (Jun 10, 2009)

*1995 Ritchey P 21 For Sale*

Thanks, see the forum guidelines, and buy an ad.....


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## captain8track (Sep 26, 2008)

what is that... "how to ruin one of the finest bikes ever manual"?


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## tvcreative (Dec 2, 2011)

Hmm...I think i am onboard with captain8track, why ruin a beauty like that with a suspension fork anyway?


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## derrgti (Sep 4, 2007)

THis makes me kick myself for selling my Judy FSX and SID world cup, never thought of doing this... what does that thing weigh? wonder if englund air cart's would work in that..



scant said:


> yes its possible. lowers & uppers of different periods normally fit each other. its compatibility between the internals that are more complicated. 96 judy FSX lowers with 01 sid carbon stantions/crown/steerer.


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