# Does a lighter cassette make a difference?



## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

I’m looking at upgrading my gx Eagle cassette once it wears out to a xx1, I know that the xx1 is 3.5 ounces lighter, but will I feel it when I ride like I do when I have a lighter wheelset? It’s a very large cassette, so does that mean it’s rotational weight actually affects the ride? Also, what’s the advantage of TInitride coating?


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I don't think the weight difference on that one part alone is enough to notice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titanium_nitride

Chains also come in this "flavour" but the jury is out as to actual impact:
http://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-s...-nitride-coating-does-do-anything-542785.html


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Maybe. FYI the XO1 and xx1 cassette are virtually identical. The gx cassette is stamped steel cogs pinned together and the other 2 are machined from a block of steel. In that you may find crisper, faster, more precise shifting.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

weight matters if you are racing on anything you can save weight on

if this doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter

but racing, yeah lighten up 'everything that is not compromised
by being light'. with cassettes you have to test all the cogs under extreme
watts to make sure they don't bend or gubber things up under load


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Your rear suspension will react better with a lighter cassette. But most omportantly, you will now have a cassette that lasts many times as long as the best Shimano has to offer.


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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

Ok, I’ll be using it for endurance races/rides 50-100 miles long. I definitely won’t be getting TIN chains, but what about the cassette where the cigs are completely covered? Will it prevent enough wear to justify the extra $30? I can get about 1,200 miles out of a cassette with a regular coating, could I get 1,800 with TIN? It’s going on a trek stache 9.7 so rear suspension isn’t an issue! 😉


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## xblitzkriegx (Jul 29, 2016)

448g vs 360g. right at 90g difference. you probably wont noticed a weight benefit. 

depending on the denomination of currency used, its possible to save more weight out of your wallet by paying for the cassette than the weight difference of the cassette to begin with. 

the coating isnt that big a deal, itll wear off rather quickly just like all the other coatings. 

if you have the money to spend, then buy the xx1 cassette. there is a rather slight tangible benefit, plus it looks neat. let the haters hate.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Ole said:


> Your rear suspension will react better with a lighter cassette. But most omportantly, you will now have a cassette that lasts many times as long as the best Shimano has to offer.


My somewhat limited experience does not support this. For me XTR and XX1 last about the same, certainly not a many times difference.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Ole said:


> Your rear suspension will react better with a lighter cassette. But most omportantly, you will now have a cassette that lasts many times as long as the best Shimano has to offer.





sryanak said:


> My somewhat limited experience does not support this. For me XTR and XX1 last about the same, certainly not a many times difference.


sryanak beat me to it. I don't have an accurate km/cassette tracker, but I have been unable to notice any massive difference between the 2, and definitely not multiple times different.

As for the other claim re suspension improvement, I suppose that technically less weight on the rear wheel will allow less inhibited movement, but I can't see 100g making much difference. You'd have to think that shock setup, hub, axle, wheel & rubber would all play a role. Hard to think a cassette swap offers a noticeable improvement. (?)


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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

Huh, this has been interesting! I currently have the gx Eagle cassette and am definitely wanting to upgrade once it wears out, basically it’s between the x01 or a xx1. I can honestly say that the longest lasting cassette I’ve ever seen was a cheap shimano 7 speed cassette that some guy had me swap out after 6,500 miles, the longest I’ve ever gotten out of a SRAM 11 speed cassette was 1,200 miles, so I don’t know if I 100% agree with that statement! ;-)


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I have x01s, they are great, plenty of endurance racing miles. You always need to change your chain at the proper wear/intervals, or you'll kill your cassette prematurely.


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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

So basically, don’t waste your money on xx1..... how often should I replace my chain? I typically do it every 600 miles


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

AKRIDERK9 said:


> Huh, this has been interesting! I currently have the gx Eagle cassette and am definitely wanting to upgrade once it wears out, basically it's between the x01 or a xx1. I can honestly say that the longest lasting cassette I've ever seen was a cheap shimano 7 speed cassette that some guy had me swap out after 6,500 miles, the longest I've ever gotten out of a SRAM 11 speed cassette was 1,200 miles, so I don't know if I 100% agree with that statement! ;-)


Those old 7sp cassettes all lasted a hell of a lot longer than modern steel cassettes. Don't know if it was better quality control, better materials, better engineering, or just thicker, but I rode through 14-15 of those cassettes, and rarely replaced one before 5k miles, even the years I lived on the coast and locked the bike to the dune bridge (beach side) while I surfed.


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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

Yeah, those 7 speed cassettes where crazy! The really wild part was that he was still running the original chain too and had never put a link in it! That’s gotta be a record, too bad I can’t get a $400 cassette to last half as long as a $25 shimano 7 speed.....


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

AKRIDERK9 said:


> I'm looking at upgrading my gx Eagle cassette once it wears out to a xx1, I know that the xx1 is 3.5 ounces lighter, but will I feel it when I ride like I do when I have a lighter wheelset? It's a very large cassette, so does that mean it's rotational weight actually affects the ride? Also, what's the advantage of TInitride coating?


not really. because the weight is near the axle is not as pronounced as in a wheel rim. However lighter is lighter and these days a good place to shave grams and the expense of dollars. I will say XX1 cassettes are a work of art. I have 10-42 in my bike all I can is wow. The construction is amazing.


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## The_Trail_Also_Rises (May 2, 2006)

How often you need to change your chain depends on many factors: style of riding, trail conditions, how clean and lubed you maintain the chain, etc. I use a chain length tool (Park makes one, as do others) and check my chains about every month. In the past, I used a 12 inch ruler and measured pin to pin on the chain - IIRC, if it was more than 1/16's of inch then I replaced the chain. It's not as accurate with the ruler, tho, so I recommend the chain tool.

If you race a lot or really ride hard, you don't keep your chain clean and lubed, etc, your chain won't last as long. I can usually get a couple of thousand miles out of a chain before it needs replacing but I'm fairly diligent about cleaning a chain well and keeping it lubed and I don't tend to ride in bad conditions often. Back when I raced, it was a different story.



AKRIDERK9 said:


> So basically, don't waste your money on xx1..... how often should I replace my chain? I typically do it every 600 miles


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## The_Trail_Also_Rises (May 2, 2006)

I sure notice the extra weight when the wheel is out of the bike. Notice it a little when lifting up the bike. Not so much when riding. 

That's the thing about weight weenie-ism. Each individual part's low weight typically doesn't make much noticeable different (except for rims/tires) but added together it can. Hence, the obsession.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

At the speeds we spin our wheels, there isn't enough mass to notice the difference between the lightest hub and cassette, Vs. the burliest downhill Hub. You may be able to pick out an energy expenditure difference over hundreds of miles, but probably not without running hundreds of tests to negate the effects of environment and physiology.

Now, a trail Vs downhill wheelset you *might* notice. The spread can be as much as 3Lbs of rotational weight (rims and tires), which translates into 12 Lbs of dead weight. A lightweight rider would notice this, but as you approach 200Lbs you are talking about a 5% difference, which most do not notice. As someone north of 300Lbs, I can't tell the difference between having my seat pack for a trail ride Vs my commuting load of about 20Lbs.

Remember, all of this matters only when you are changing speed. When you are climbing, 3Lb heavier rims and tires are only going to require the energy to carry an additional 3Lbs up that hill. Also, wheel weight STORES energy, not consumes it. That extra bit of energy you put into the wheel to get it to speed gets paid back when you rest as the greater mass resists speed reduction more than with a wheelset.

Weight weenieism is for out-sprinting someone at the end of the race. Aerodynamics is for spending less energy to get to the end of that race. All but the very top riders are served best by working on aerodynamics and ignoring weight.


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Flamingtaco said:


> ...... Also, wheel weight STORES energy, not consumes it. That extra bit of energy you put into the wheel to get it to speed gets paid back when you rest as the greater mass resists speed reduction more than with a wheelset......


Except every time you have to brake you are turning that stored energy into heat. Not a huge deal either way, but you do not get all the stored energy back when you coast.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

sryanak said:


> Except every time you have to brake you are turning that stored energy into heat. Not a huge deal either way, but you do not get all the stored energy back when you coast.


I knew someone would bring this up!  I skipped braking altogether because the question was about efficiency in acceleration. Specifically regarding a cassette.


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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

Hmm, by that same logic you should be able to go faster on flat ground with a lead filled wheelset because you will continue coasting when you need to grab your bottle..... I feel like everyone forgets that friction is always fighting the rotation of the wheel and that it is easier to run a lighter wheel and recover the lost speed each revolution. I do a ton of climbing, so “light is right”


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## Len Baird (Aug 1, 2017)

If you're going for a full weight weenie build, then all the little things add up. If it's just the cassette (or one of the other non wheel parts) by itself, not so much. It may shave a few seconds off a long climb, but it isn't something you'll feel.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Len Baird said:


> If you're going for a full weight weenie build, then all the little things add up. If it's just the cassette (or one of the other non wheel parts) by itself, not so much. It may shave a few seconds off a long climb, but it isn't something you'll feel.


I think the concept is spot on, but in reality I'd suspect the difference (among similarly-grouped racers) to be negligible, maybe not even measurable on a single climb.


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## BikePilot1 (May 15, 2006)

I can't feel the rotational inertia of heavy vs light cassettes but I do notice the feel of the bike improve with a light cassette. It's one of those parts that varies a surprising amount in weight from a light to heavy one.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

Doesn't make a difference on its own but in a WW build it all counts


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## Gliding_serpent (Aug 8, 2017)

I will expect that you will not feel the weight savings... but maybe if you have a very light wheelset and compare the swap back to back within a very short time period... you may sense something. But it is still probably in your head. 

Yes, it is rotating weight, but as you know it is the weight that is furthest from the centre of rotation that have the greatest influence on what a rider feels when peddling. Shaving 100g at the casette may theoretically help you hop that rear axle however. 

But what is real world when it comes to weight loss?

A 22lbs (10kg) bike is nothing to laugh at, especially if that includes pedals. Each 100g weight reduction is a 1% weight loss. Can one really feel 1%? What if you attach a 180lbs rider to it? The % loss becomes even less. The 100g loss makes the bike and rider About 0.1% lighter. 

Now, make that 10kg bike a 9kg bike (save 1 kg, or 2.2 lbs to get a near 20lbs bike)... and that is a 10% weight reduction in the bike. Not bad. But... Combined with the 180lbs rider... that is a 1% total reduction in weight. Meh...

Thus, the benefits of reducing rotating weight. 
We all know the above, but i find putting it in numbers helps keep things in perspective. 

But... with two equal athletes in competition... that 1% edge may just be the difference maker. For chumps like me... i just like building a light bike. And heck, i guess i need to get every advantage i can.


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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

Hmm, those are all pretty interesting points! I was just curious if there was much of a rotational mass difference since the cassette is so dang big! I’m trying to shave 1 hour and 38 minutes off of a 100 mile race I do and I was curious if that weight shaving would do much!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Just read a few reviews on gearbox bikes. One of the points that's brought up on just about everyone I've read is the suspension feel when removing all that weight off the rear wheel.


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## Emdexpress (Jan 24, 2018)

SRAM makes the lightest cassettes if you spend enough. The weight you save for a desposible component for more money on paper it is not worth it. However if you have the cash, I almost always shell out the big bucks. Weight adds us very fast. Especially concidering the weight of our tires. Light bikes are more fun for me to ride which gets more miles ridden which keeps me alive longer. So because I cannot take it with me, I spend a ton on light bikes. I ride DI2 XT and eTap. The SRAM cassettes are amazing, especially the 11-25 and 11-32. So light. I run an XTR 11-40 on the DI2. All good stuff. So...if you can afford to pay more on parts that wear out, I say do it! If not enjoy what you got and ride the snot out of it.


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## bobdavisnpf (Apr 5, 2018)

The cost per ounce saved is not bad, and the XX1 is indeed a work of art. It's holding up great for me, but I'm not a demanding rider, and don't force gear changes when stomping hard on the pedals.


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## WV_XCE (Dec 29, 2004)

I think it matters more than a lightweight hub or brake rotors. People spend big bucks on them to save weight. 

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## AKRIDERK9 (Mar 4, 2018)

Very true! I love the eagle, I just hate the pricetag! I’ll probably just go XO1 and call it good, I don’t think the coating on the XX1 is worth the extra $40....: thanks guys!


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## Emdexpress (Jan 24, 2018)

Investing in just one light component usually makes no noticeable difference. It is the cumulative results that makes a difference for me. Grams add up fast and it only takes 453.59 grams to a pound. Tire selection alone can save you over a pound. XTR Groupset over Lower groups is substantial but you need the whole group, not just a cassette. If your bike is already heavy, you will feel nothing. Light is fast and fun for me so....if you want to lighten up your ride, it is very expensive to become a weight weiny. It is fun, exciting but expensive and if you bike has FS and you carry a lot of stuff, you will be disappointed.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

90g on a part creating very little centrifugal force is negligible. Saving/Adding 90g on a tire would be a much more discernible impact.


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## rakerdeal (Oct 28, 2008)

I continually spend on lighter parts and the cassette is one of them. Then of course I laugh at myself, I had this 100mm fork suspension full suspension bike (a Specialized Epic 29er), 23 lbs that I raced and along came the Uwharrie 5 lap race in NC. I'd done it a couple of years and my lap times on the 13-14 miles 1200 feet climb or so were about 1:04 to 1:05. My Epic broke and I moved over to my FSR Stumpjumper 130 front suspension 26 lb bike. I felt sluggish the entire time, then just settled in and tried to spin efficiently and monitor heart rate (which honestly was easier to do with so much more suspension and slacker front end etc). And I turned in 5 laps with times from 58 to 102 minutes which of course is off the charts improvement. Flabbergasted me to the point of not trusting the race committee's timing.


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