# Brake bleeding is NOT complicated!



## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

I'm reaching out to my 50+ brethren, as you would understand this a little more i believe. So why do many bike shops and service techs, and repair books make it appear as if bleeding mtb brakes is such a difficult process? 

I had a bike shop repair guy the other day tell me it was a tricky process, and there is a lot more involved that only trained technicians can do. And a book I have shows the process in 20 steps! Really??!!

If you have zero mechanical ability, then perhaps you'll run into some problems i guess. This is why i'm in the 50+ forum, I'm sure we've all worked on classic cars/trucks and many of us have done full brake jobs on our own vehicle...calipers, rotors, pads and fully bleeding the system. But a bicycle?! C'mon man! It's like they don't want the public to know they can easily work on their own bikes. And I get it, bike shops need to earn a buck too.. just don't act like its rocket science.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

It is not "difficult". It is pretty straightforward, especially now, not like 20 years ago. The part that is a problem is it being tricky when things go awry, messy and frustrating. May involve spillage toxic substances. In the end you can't really judge your results, because, seemingly, there is always some leftover air in the system.


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## netaron (12 mo ago)

It sounds a little like a rant 😁, it's simple until it isn't, especially if the right tools aren't on hand, and in my own experience, the red stuff from shimano does make a difference with feel. A little air caught just at the right angle can be challanging, even for the experienced, not to mention how messy mistakes can become compounded when working on multiple issues.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

93M500 said:


> I'm reaching out to my 50+ brethren, as you would understand this a little more i believe. So why do many bike shops and service techs, and repair books make it appear as if bleeding mtb brakes is such a difficult process?
> 
> I had a bike shop repair guy the other day tell me it was a tricky process, and there is a lot more involved that only trained technicians can do. And a book I have shows the process in 20 steps! Really??!!
> 
> If you have zero mechanical ability, then perhaps you'll run into some problems i guess. This is why i'm in the 50+ forum, I'm sure we've all worked on classic cars/trucks and many of us have done full brake jobs on our own vehicle...calipers, rotors, pads and fully bleeding the system. But a bicycle?! C'mon man! It's like they don't want the public to know they can easily work on their own bikes. And I get it, bike shops need to earn a buck too.. just don't act like its rocket science.


On the one hand I totally agree. With a decent bleed kit, especially with mineral oil brakes it's not that hard to learn. And mostly pretty forgiving in letting you address mistakes. Not rocket science... (certianly it was a lot harder before there were a thousand how to video's on YT)

The thing about brakes is that "if" they fail you can find yourself seriously F'd, like full on you could die situation depending on the trail. So I get why bike mechanics would err on the side of safety. Also they are trying to make a buck. 

But yea, sometimes you get someone who likes to think they are somehow special because of the job they have...? IME a lot of barista's, and IT people seem to also have that quirk about them too.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Yep, the two tasks I dread doing are bleeding brakes and servicing my suspension forks. It isn't for lack of ability, I just hate having to deal with the fluids. Heck I even hate swapping out tubeless tires because of having to deal with mopping the remaining sealant out of the old tire.


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## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

All true unless you are bleeding Magura MT brakes.

Then the process is horrendous and impossible.

I bleed Shimano, SRAM, Hope, TRP, etc., brakes all the time. I hate doing it, but only because of the fluids. Generally it is not hard to get good results.

Unless you are bleeding Maguras...


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## Notthatbryan (Aug 7, 2021)

93M500 said:


> I'm reaching out to my 50+ brethren, as you would understand this a little more i believe. So why do many bike shops and service techs, and repair books make it appear as if bleeding mtb brakes is such a difficult process?
> 
> I had a bike shop repair guy the other day tell me it was a tricky process, and there is a lot more involved that only trained technicians can do. And a book I have shows the process in 20 steps! Really??!!
> 
> If you have zero mechanical ability, then perhaps you'll run into some problems i guess. This is why i'm in the 50+ forum, I'm sure we've all worked on classic cars/trucks and many of us have done full brake jobs on our own vehicle...calipers, rotors, pads and fully bleeding the system. But a bicycle?! C'mon man! It's like they don't want the public to know they can easily work on their own bikes. And I get it, bike shops need to earn a buck too.. just don't act like its rocket science.


Because most people are idiots who lack any sort of mechanical understanding, skill, or sympathy.


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## Juansan (Dec 30, 2020)

With Youtube and the right tools anything is possible. For those over 50 or older did you have high school classes in auto repair and wood working ?


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Notthatbryan said:


> Because most people are idiots who lack any sort of mechanical understanding, skill, or sympathy.


I think this hits the nail on the head. A guy I worked with a couple of years ago had a Specialized Roubaix sitting in his garage that he couldn't ride because it had a puncture and he hadn't had time to take it to shop to get it fixed. I was in a bike shop and a lady came in asking about the tires they had installed for her the week before. A friend of mine took his bike to the shop to get the pedals removed, he was worried about breaking something on the bike by pressing too hard on the wrench. I pointed out that the cranks and pedals take his full body weight smashing over rocks and roots and speed, but still he took it to the bike shop!

As for the comment about Maguras, I didn't find them any more challenging to bleed than Tektro, in fact I'd say they are easier.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93M500 said:


> I'm sure we've all worked on classic cars/trucks and many of us have done full brake jobs on our own vehicle...calipers, rotors, pads and fully bleeding the system. But a bicycle?! C'mon man!


. 



Bleeding car brakes is way easier than bleeding bike brakes. It's not that it's complicated, just that they can be finiky and there are several extra steps required (on some) required to fish out all the air bubbles.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Notthatbryan said:


> Because most people are idiots who lack any sort of mechanical understanding, skill, or sympathy.




Yes, most people are idiots. Except for you and me of course. 🙃


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

Bleeding brakes is easy until it isn't. Bleed enough brakes and one day you get that set that just won't bleed no matter what you do because something is wrong with one of the components of the system.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

That's not a bleed problem though.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

dysfunction said:


> That's not a bleed problem though.


But in the moment you think it is and can get frustrated with the bleed process.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DeoreDX said:


> But in the moment you think it is and can get frustrated with the bleed process.



And sometimes it actually is because you missed some bubbles with the standard bleed process.

Curious, do any of you over 50 geniuses ever have your oil changed at a jiffy lube?


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

This can really be said about almost any bike repair task. In most cases these are not terribly difficult skills to acquire and they can be done incrementally as needed. Even more complex aspects of suspension servicing are not really difficult per se, especially now in the age of youtube guides that can show you visually step by step how to disassemble, service, and reassemble parts.

This may sound controversial, but there's a reason bike mechanics are not paid that well. The skills involved are not that difficult or complicated. Bikes are pretty simple machines.


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

Bleeding brakes isn't hard, but there are certainly tricks you learn after doing it a bunch of times, so the bike shop expertise might be valuable for some folks.

One thing that can be a pain is getting the contact point where you like it. The contact point adjustment on my Shimano brakes doesn't do much at all. On my SRAM G2 RSC brakes the contact point adjustment makes a difference, but at max adjustment is still not quick enough for my liking. So there are tricks you can do with caliper piston position while bleeding, essentially overfilling the system, to change the contact point.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

*Brake bleeding is NOT complicated!*

Agree! But... it's not the same for everyone. Just different aptitudes.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

kpdemello said:


> Even more complex aspects of suspension servicing are not really difficult per se, especially now in the age of youtube guides that can show you visually step by step how to disassemble, service, and reassemble parts.


The only bit of a suspension servicing that is a real challenge for the home mechanic is vacuum bleeding/nitrogen charging the shock...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

kpdemello said:


> This may sound controversial, but there's a reason bike mechanics are not paid that well. The skills involved are not that difficult or complicated. Bikes are pretty simple machines.



It's a craft like anything else. Auto repair isn't that complicated either yet there are good techs and bad ones.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

What on earth does bleeding brakes have to do with being 50+?


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## mrdimi (Oct 26, 2020)

It can be sketchy especially if there is something else wrong with the brakes as well. I had a stuck caliper on a 4 pot and it was a pain cleaning the brakes and then bleeding it. Luckily there are a bunch of great YouTube video's explaining it fairly well, especially the Park stuff. Not hard but time consuming and finnicky.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

beastmaster said:


> What on earth does bleeding brakes have to do with being 50+?




Because them young wippersnappers have all melted their brains with those game boy thingies. They don't know how to fix nothing.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I gotta love it when people throw a fit on here about tasks they find to be dead easy, yet they speak from a position of privilege because they have mechanical aptitude and have fostered that aptitude, so even learning new tasks/skills is very easy.

I know a lot of very intelligent people who just don't want to mess with this kind of stuff. their mental bandwidth is dedicated to other things, so it's worthwhile to them to just pay someone else to do it. I personally developed some pretty negative mental associations with wrenching on cars, so I send mine to a mechanic because I HATE wrenching on them.

Brake bleeds for me are hit or miss. I can do them, but I know that I take awhile to do them. So depending on what my schedule looks like, I might do the bleed myself or I might take it to a shop to do it. It may not be _difficult_ in most cases, but it does take time. And sometimes you just get little frustrating bubbles in there that are just a little bit extra. I like that my Dominion calipers have 2 bleed ports for those occasions to help get those frustrating bubbles out. But that means a challenging bleed can take that much extra time to do, because you're moving the syringes around and doing the steps, etc, etc.

Suspension service is a similar sort of thing for me. It's not _hard_ but it takes time and it takes care (to keep everything clean). So there's prep involved to make sure I have an adequate workspace to do the job. Sometimes I just don't want to do those things, so I pay someone else to do the job.


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## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Harold said:


> I gotta love it when people throw a fit on here about tasks they find to be dead easy, yet they speak from a position of privilege because they have mechanical aptitude and have fostered that aptitude, so even learning new tasks/skills is very easy.
> 
> I know a lot of very intelligent people who just don't want to mess with this kind of stuff. their mental bandwidth is dedicated to other things, so it's worthwhile to them to just pay someone else to do it. I personally developed some pretty negative mental associations with wrenching on cars, so I send mine to a mechanic because I HATE wrenching on them.
> 
> ...


Exactly right.

I do my own work because:

I have the knowledge from working as a bike shop mechanic for years.
I have the right tools, including suspension and brake specific tools for multiple brands.
Most importantly - I enjoy the work, and look forward to it as a break from sitting behind a computer all day.
If #3 weren't true I would take my bike to the shop for service and be done with it.

And, as someone who spent years as a shop mechanic, I agree that anyone with sufficient aptitude can become an adequate home mechanic, but becoming a highly-skilled, resourceful, and efficient shop mechanic is a whole different thing.

Home mechanics can install a new BB and crank with the right tools and instruction, assuming everything goes well. Shop mechanics can fabricate a tool from scratch to extract an ancient seized BB no longer made, repair the threads in the frame, and get everything back together quickly and effectively. Not so much an adequate home mechanic.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

If you have the appropriate bleed kit, brake fluid, there is nothing wrong with the brake and you know what you are doing it's fairly easy. If you don't have a bleed kit, brake fluid, something is wrong with your brakes and/or you don't know what you are doing it's not that simple. You can contaminate a set of $$ brake pads or damage the caliper bladder if you are not careful. 

It's the kind of maintenance job that's totally reasonable to do at home, but also totally reasonable to take to your LBS and have them do it. Better to be realistic about the situation than to have to buy new calipers or even just new brake pads.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I enjoy working on my bikes.
Even the brakes.
Even installing / servicing dropper posts.
Sometimes working on my bike is like working a puzzle.
Some people enjoy puzzles, others don't.
I often go out to the garage to putter. Check brake pads, check chain length, clean this, adjust that.
Easy to do -- between my GF's bikes and mine, there are 8 bikes out there.
Only thing about bikes I don't enjoy is when a neighbor or acquaintance has a BSO and asks me to tune it up.
"Uh... er... well..."
BSOs can't be tuned up. They were built wrong in the first place.
Quality is the only true economy. Buy once, cry once.
But pay the price of entry & enjoy working on quality components thereafter.
But we were talking about bleeding brakes, weren't we. Now back to you.
=sParty


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I've bled and installed many different sets of brakes, SRAM and Shimano, but this current one is giving me a run for my money. This is a very simple task, you push fluid through and air out, until things go sideways. For example, where is the air intrusion, did I pop the bladder in my lever, why is the lever moving back slowly.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

beastmaster said:


> What on earth does bleeding brakes have to do with being 50+?




Us old Geezers would rather discuss this with other old Geezers given that these threads usually don't "age" well in other sub-forums. We'll leave it here as it seems to be doing rather well here.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

Sorry, no. I'm a computer programmer. That's a hardware problem.


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## thomcom (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm going to disagree with you. Brake bleeding is the hardest bike related mechanics task after: building a wheel, servicing suspensions, facing, building frames, and literally manufacturing components. Everything else is just placing objects and turning screws. Even building a wheel, though wheel building takes on many intricacies.

Bleeding brakes is "hard" because it is indeed so easy to fail. Spill fluid everywhere: failed. Squirt fluid in your face: failed. Get fluid on your rotors: failed. Get fluid on your pads: failed. Get fluid on your clothes: failed. Leave DOT fluid on your paint job: failed. Pull off a syringe at the wrong time: failed. Pump a bubble into the housing: failed. Glaze your pads while you test out the bleed: failed. I'm sure there are many more examples that I don't have the experience to name. Finally, brake bleeding requires an attention to detail, cleanliness, using a fluid as a mechanical component, and an intuitive sense of when bubbles have been bled. These things are all very different from the rest of bike maintenance and construction, other than the five skillsets I mentioned above.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> And sometimes it actually is because you missed some bubbles with the standard bleed process.
> 
> Curious, do any of you over 50 geniuses ever have your oil changed at a jiffy lube?


Yes, but I can count the times on one hand in my entire life. AND the jiffy lube/walmart auto person didn't act like they were a superior human being because they knew how to perform some task and had really good tools and experience doing it.

If you get a new bike/brakes or in good condition and bleed your brakes at least once a year and take your time it's normally a pretty chill thing. Sure you might think you need a bleed and it ends up there is something else wrong OR gawd forbid you do something wrong AND then you take it to the shop. Big deal, that's what they are for.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

stiingya said:


> Yes, but I can count the times on one hand in my entire life. AND the jiffy lube/walmart auto person didn't act like they were a superior human being because they knew how to perform some task and had really good tools and experience doing it.



Well good on you but I'm guessing most here who advocate never to bring bikes into a shop for simple tasks have most of their oil changes done by someone else. 

I can only speak for myself but I nor anyone I've worked with have never acted like they were superior in any way just because we could do a brake bleed. That would be flat out silly.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

FWIW I change my vehicles' oil myself.
=sParty


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Well good on you but I'm guessing most here who advocate never to bring bikes into a shop for simple tasks have most of their oil changes done by someone else.
> 
> I can only speak for myself but I nor anyone I've worked with have never acted like they were superior in any way just because we could do a brake bleed. That would be flat out silly.


IDK? I think you'd get the full spread here? Also I don't think doing your cars brakes is a very good comparison? Some modern vehicles are pretty much designed so you can't work on them! (and I'll admit some bike brakes are more difficult then others)

Fully agree that it's silly when someone acts superior because they happen to have experience with something you don't. But I've encountered it in a LOT of places in life?



thomcom said:


> I'm going to disagree with you. Brake bleeding is the hardest bike related mechanics task after: building a wheel, servicing suspensions, facing, building frames, and literally manufacturing components. Everything else is just placing objects and turning screws. Even building a wheel, though wheel building takes on many intricacies.
> 
> Bleeding brakes is "hard" because it is indeed so easy to fail. Spill fluid everywhere: failed. Squirt fluid in your face: failed. Get fluid on your rotors: failed. Get fluid on your pads: failed. Get fluid on your clothes: failed. Leave DOT fluid on your paint job: failed. Pull off a syringe at the wrong time: failed. Pump a bubble into the housing: failed. Glaze your pads while you test out the bleed: failed. I'm sure there are many more examples that I don't have the experience to name. Finally, brake bleeding requires an attention to detail, cleanliness, using a fluid as a mechanical component, and an intuitive sense of when bubbles have been bled. These things are all very different from the rest of bike maintenance and construction, other than the five skillsets I mentioned above.


Other then the DOT fluid on your paint there aren't really any failures there? Just experiences to make it quicker and easier next time.

Fully admit to never actually building a wheel. I've talked about it, had someone that was going to teach me. But I've always just ordered em! 

As with most things in life, having the right tools for the job goes a LONG way...


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> FWIW I change my vehicles' oil myself.
> =sParty


Same, and replace and service my cars brakes and suspension as well. 

Actually, just over a week ago I had to replace the rear passenger caliper on my car and bleed the brake system.

While I had it on stands, replaced the oil as well and then decided it was a good time to put fresh headlights in it. 

I would say bleeding brakes on a car is easier than on the bike. Biggest pain of bleeding the car brakes last week was getting my 11 year old daughter outside to work the brake pedal as I handled the bleed valve...


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Curious, do any of you over 50 geniuses ever have your oil changed at a jiffy lube?


No. But I like doing this stuff, and do things like rebuild calipers... Since we're talking about brakes.

Growing up with mechanics and millwrights meant we repaired everything. It also meant gaining an appreciation for the technology involved. 

btw, bleeding brakes on a car becomes a pain if you have to deal with the ABS module.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

FrankS29 said:


> Same, and replace and service my cars brakes and suspension as well.
> 
> Actually, just over a week ago I had to replace the rear passenger caliper on my car and bleed the brake system.
> 
> ...


I fail to see how twice as many calipers and a process that requires more then once person, that first needs the lug nuts removed from four tires, a jack used 4 times and blocks/jackstands to prop a vehicle up is easier then proping your bike against a wall or lifting up in the stand and loosening your brake levers, rotating them and you ready to go? 

I mean I cant think of a time I've needed to use a breaker bar to get the bolt loose on the bleed port on my mountain bike...


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> It's a craft like anything else. Auto repair isn't that complicated either yet there are good techs and bad ones.


I think auto repair is an order of magnitude more complicated than bike repair. There's just more to know and deal with, especially in the age of computerized cars. Bikes are far more simple by comparison.

I'm not saying there's no value in having a good bike mechanic. At a minimum it can save you the time and energy of learning and doing the thing yourself. And a good mechanic can save you a lot of DIY headaches for sure. But if one is inclined, one can learn to be a competent bike mechanic pretty quickly and easily.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

stiingya said:


> I fail to see how twice as many calipers and a process that requires more then once person, that first needs the lug nuts removed from four tires, a jack used 4 times and blocks/jackstands to prop a vehicle up is easier then proping your bike against a wall or lifting up in the stand and loosening your brake levers, rotating them and you ready to go?
> 
> I mean I cant think of a time I've needed to use a breaker bar to get the bolt loose on the bleed port on my mountain bike...


I'm talking about the actual process of bleeding. It's dead simple on a car. 

Bikes you can be fussing with syringes and wrestling with tiny amounts air bubbles that you're hanging the bike at odd angles to free or letting the bike sit overnight in a particular position to get air to move...

Don't get me wrong. I consider bleeding brakes on a bike pretty easy, but I think it takes a lot more attention and patience to do it correctly than on a car.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

FrankS29 said:


> I'm talking about the actual process of bleeding. It's dead simple on a car.
> 
> Bikes you can be fussing with syringes and wrestling with tiny amounts air bubbles that you're hanging the bike at odd angles to free or letting the bike sit overnight in a particular position to get air to move...
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I consider bleeding brakes on a bike pretty easy, but I think it takes a lot more attention and patience to do it correctly than on a car.


I mostly agree when you get to that part! For sure you just don't seem to get bubbles hiding in the system on a vehicle like you can on a bike! But for instance on my vehicle you have to do the bleed in a zig zag and "if" it's not good when you get to the front driver side caliper you have to keep going around till it's right. And again it takes two people and if someone stops paying attention it can mess you up and you have to start over!

So it's not like you never have bleed issues in a vehicle, but maybe your not flipping your truck up at an angle and letting it sit overnight to try and get bubbles out of a janky hydro line curve?  )

But the flip side is you can often get away with a quick lever bleed and just tap on the lines while modulating the brake lever and freshen things up and be good to go in 10-15 minutes a side? no disassembly required! (other then pulling the bleed port screw and being careful with the O ring!)

OK back to it, man you can tell it's Friday...


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> Curious, do any of you over 50 geniuses ever have your oil changed at a jiffy lube?


Nope. I have always wrenched my own cars since my first one. I'm 61 now. I've done it all and still do. Basic maintenance to complete ground up rebuilds and just about every muscle car and off road modification there is. And no, I don't work on cars for a living. I do it for fun. Expensive hobby, but fun.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Some people don't give themselves a chance to be good with their hands. The kits make it easy by not having to hunt around for special fittings, syringes, tubing, fluid, etc.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

jcavicchi said:


> All true unless you are bleeding Magura MT brakes.
> 
> Then the process is horrendous and impossible.
> 
> ...


-I came here to say basically the same thing. 
The North-America Magura guys could hardly bleed my Marta SL's back in the day and that was during a "Shop-tutorial"!!


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

The thing about YouTube videos, I hate when people showing you how to do something skips a step, and it's usually something important that you need to see. But they just gloss right over it. This happens in a lot of bike repair, auto repair, stereo installation stuff that I watch.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There are a lot of setups that can trap bubbles at the caliper. The two syringe methods are the best. Some are bizarre, like Hope, where you are fighting the bubbles natural tendency to rise, trying to force everything down and there’s no fitting at the top to even use a syringe. While they tout “no special tools” as a advantage, it’s a crappy bleeding process and leads to bubbles at the caliper. 

Some are simpler, but issues with crossover paths, gravity and trapped bubbles make this a more challenging process for many. Some systems avoid the issues, but increase the complexity.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I've never understood the complaints about the two syringe method. It's the most consistent, and therefore easiest, I've used.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

blammo585 said:


> The thing about YouTube videos, I hate when people showing you how to do something skips a step, and it's usually something important that you need to see. But they just gloss right over it. This happens in a lot of bike repair, auto repair, stereo installation stuff that I watch.


Yeah, one of the classics is something loc-tited from the company under massive torque or susceptible to stripping if handled normally where the tech in the video just breaks it free with no effort, like it wasn’t even set like a consumer would encounter. I remember some of the DVO stuff to change the travel where it was basically impossible to break free.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Jayem said:


> Yeah, one of the classics is something loc-tited from the company under massive torque or susceptible to stripping if handled normally where the tech in the video just breaks it free with no effort, like it wasn’t even set like a consumer would encounter. *I remember some of the DVO stuff to change the travel where it was basically impossible to break free.*


The damper plug on my Sapphire D1 was basically impossible to remove.

I had to heat the hell out of it and jam pliers into it to get it to budge.

When working with the pin spanner in the beginning, it slipped and scratched the rebound shaft on me. I didn’t bother trying to protect it as I never thought it would be sooo difficult to remove as the airspring plug came out without issue. Thankfully DVO got me a new rebound shaft for the cost of shipping.

Nonsense like that is why I service my suspension in the off season. Fork was down for a week, but who cares when it’s 10*F outside with a foot of snow on the ground.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)




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## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

11053 said:


> View attachment 1981547


That was me bleeding a new set of Maguras for the 4th time after just cutting the hoses.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

11053 said:


> View attachment 1981547


In all fairness, that cloud was throwing a lot of shade…


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## In2falling (Jan 1, 2005)

Jayem said:


> There are a lot of setups that can trap bubbles at the caliper. The two syringe methods are the best. .


Yup and pull the top syringe multiple times when finishing to get out/suck out all the air. 
Then depress it to put some pressure into the system.
I hate squish brakes and this makes for tight quick engagement.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I haven't bled a brake system since Magura rim brakes in the 90's. I have some Magura discs that are 16 years old and have never been touched. I'm not skeered though and will be switching to braided lines soon on my Hopes so I'll find out. I do all the work on my bikes and vehicles including rebuilding engines.

The rare times I've used a shop, I've had to fix their work.


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## Juansan (Dec 30, 2020)

blammo585 said:


> The thing about YouTube videos, I hate when people showing you how to do something skips a step, and it's usually something important that you need to see. But they just gloss right over it. This happens in a lot of bike repair, auto repair, stereo installation stuff that I watch.


You should check out at least 3 or more videos on the subject before you start. I'm getting prepared to change the fuel pump on a 1995 Ford F150. After about 4 videos in which the procedure involved removing the gas tank ( not easy ) I found 1 that showed how to cut a hole in the bed of the truck to access the fuel pump port which is located on the top of the tank. Use the piece of bed that you have cut out as a access hatch.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I don't know how all you guys who fix your own bikes, change your own oil and do all the maintenance on your own cars (including rebuilding engines), paint your own house, build your own furniture, grow your own meat and god knows what else ever find time to ride your bikes. I pay people to do most of that stuff so I can have a little time to have some fun.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't know how all you guys who fix your own bikes, change your own oil and do all the maintenance on your own cars (including rebuilding engines), paint your own house, build your own furniture, grow your own meat and god knows what else ever find time to ride your bikes. I pay people to do most of that stuff so I can have a little time to have some fun.


I do my own work because it gets done right the first time. Climbing out from under the Jeep is getting harder these days though and the wife wasn't happy about me rebuilding a CR 500 motor on the kitchen table last summer.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

milehi said:


> I do my own work because it gets done right the first time. Climbing out from under the Jeep is getting harder these days though and the wife wasn't happy about me rebuilding a CR 500 motor on the kitchen table last summer.



I'm a stickler for doing things right too but if I insisted on doing everything there's no way I could waste the amount of time riding a bike as I enjoy doing now. Unfortunately I still have to work for a living. Sacrifices must be made. A perfect oil change done and inspected by myself or a nice bike ride? Hmmm...


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

It depends on what you think is fun. Farming, not so much. Other things are just chores... Thanks for reminding me that I gotta paint the house next winter. At least the midcentury modern credenza should be finished this weekend.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm a stickler for doing things right too but if I insisted on doing everything there's no way I could waste the amount of time riding a bike as I enjoy doing now. Unfortunately I still have to work for a living. Sacrifices must be made. A perfect oil change done and inspected by myself or a nice bike ride? Hmmm...


An oil change takes less than ten minutes and is the last thing I want anyone doing. A couple years ago I was at the Audi dealer for service parts and a high end Porsche came in on a flatbed. The tech had failed to tighten the drain bolt and the motor seized. Oops.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

That and over torqued drain plugs with screwed up threads seems to be endemic.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

milehi said:


> An oil change takes less than ten minutes and is the last thing I want anyone doing.



I'll time you 🙃 

must include purchasing the parts, disposing of the used oil and cleanup.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't know how all you guys who fix your own bikes, change your own oil and do all the maintenance on your own cars (including rebuilding engines), paint your own house, build your own furniture, grow your own meat and god knows what else ever find time to ride your bikes. I pay people to do most of that stuff so I can have a little time to have some fun.


It’s a disease.

Passed on from generation to generation in my family.

I tried to buck the trend, but my wife waves bike purchases in my face if I just give up sleep and a personal life to DIY. Then there is the family ridicule if someone finds out you _paid someone else _to do something you damn well know you can do yourself.

I try and save up projects for the winter so that there is minimal riding season interruption.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'll time you 🙃
> 
> must include purchasing the parts, disposing of the used oil and cleanup.


I still save time no matter what.

20-25 minute drive each way and last time I had it done it was because it was free for purchasing the car from the dealer.

That was a 40 minute wait at the dealer.

So at least an hour and a half for me to go and have it done.

Or, half hour if I take my time and do it myself with a beer…


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'll time you 🙃
> 
> must include purchasing the parts, disposing of the used oil and cleanup.


I keep filters and oil in stock, ordered online and run the used oil through my chainsaw. I use a funnel so no mess. I also use extra capacity oil filters that shops don't carry.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

FrankS29 said:


> It’s a disease.
> 
> Passed on from generation to generation in my family.
> 
> ...


That's crazy talk, where does it end? Do you raise your own food? mill your own corn? Machine replacement parts for your tractor? Sew your own clothes? After all that's what farmers did back before there was currency, free time, recreation and whatnot 




FrankS29 said:


> I still save time no matter what.
> 
> 20-25 minute drive each way and last time I had it done it was because it was free for purchasing the car from the dealer.
> 
> ...



I get it done on the way to work and drink my coffee and browse mtbr while I wait 10 minutes.\




milehi said:


> I keep filters and oil in stock, ordered online and run the used oil through my chainsaw. I use a funnel so no mess. I also use extra capacity oil filters that shops don't carry.



Yeah and I'm 5 w/kg


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

If you enjoy doing it, you make time for it. If I hate doing it, and I can afford to do so I'll pay for it.

I'll grab my oil and filter on the way back from somewhere, put the truck on the lift and do an oil change. Return oil next time I go someplace. I telecommute and live well outside town. I can even do both in a day and get a ride in easily (I also don't have set work hours). So, I make time for maintaining my vehicles (it's really not a lot of time in a year), I make time to build furniture, I make time to ride... And when I got chores to do, I make time for them too.

I'm paying to have 8 clerestory windows installed, and paid to have the roof redone... And I paid to have a new septic system done. Probably the reason I'll trade trim work and get a painter friend help paint the house.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's crazy talk, where does it end? Do you raise your own food? mill your own corn? Machine replacement parts for your tractor? Sew your own clothes? After all that's what farmers did back before there was currency, free time, recreation and whatnot


Yes. 

I’ll also be making my Rampage debut this year. 
Because F’ those guys thinking they are better than me!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

jcavicchi said:


> All true unless you are bleeding Magura MT brakes.
> 
> Then the process is horrendous and impossible.
> 
> ...


Maguras are not bad once you learn how to do them. Still more difficult and time consuming than Sram. Until I learned how, I fought with them.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's crazy talk, where does it end? Do you raise your own food? mill your own corn? Machine replacement parts for your tractor? Sew your own clothes? After all that's what farmers did back before there was currency, free time, recreation and whatnot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't make my own clothes but I do my own alterations and mending. My mom is a seamstress making costumes for the movie industry. I've spent a lot of time in her sweat shop.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Juansan said:


> You should check out at least 3 or more videos on the subject before you start. I'm getting prepared to change the fuel pump on a 1995 Ford F150. After about 4 videos in which the procedure involved removing the gas tank ( not easy ) I found 1 that showed how to cut a hole in the bed of the truck to access the fuel pump port which is located on the top of the tank. Use the piece of bed that you have cut out as a access hatch.



Just unbolt the bed and block it up.


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## Pacific_Coast_Stumpy (12 mo ago)

thomcom said:


> I'm going to disagree with you. Brake bleeding is the hardest bike related mechanics task after: building a wheel, servicing suspensions, facing, building frames, and literally manufacturing components. Everything else is just placing objects and turning screws. Even building a wheel, though wheel building takes on many intricacies.
> 
> Bleeding brakes is "hard" because it is indeed so easy to fail. Spill fluid everywhere: failed. Squirt fluid in your face: failed. Get fluid on your rotors: failed. Get fluid on your pads: failed. Get fluid on your clothes: failed. Leave DOT fluid on your paint job: failed. Pull off a syringe at the wrong time: failed. Pump a bubble into the housing: failed. Glaze your pads while you test out the bleed: failed. I'm sure there are many more examples that I don't have the experience to name. Finally, brake bleeding requires an attention to detail, cleanliness, using a fluid as a mechanical component, and an intuitive sense of when bubbles have been bled. These things are all very different from the rest of bike maintenance and construction, other than the five skillsets I mentioned above.


You nailed it. I lace wheels, paint frames, swap out axles (relace), etc. I have never had a bike shop do anything for me, except help with parts interchanging and recommendations, etc. I also perform my own brake overhauls on our 12 year old Porsche Carrera. But my 2011 Stumpy FSR.....leaving well enough alone until it needs attention. Everything else has been played with on the bike....but tiny little (miniature) brake parts that could really mess up your day if they worked intermittenly.....no.


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## netaron (12 mo ago)

Is there a name for when you start a semi-hot topic, but don't care to respond to all the feedback? Definitely sounds like a rant.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

netaron said:


> Is there a name for when you start a semi-hot topic, but don't care to respond to all the feedback? Definitely sounds like a rant.


Shitposting?


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

Juansan said:


> You should check out at least 3 or more videos on the subject before you start. I'm getting prepared to change the fuel pump on a 1995 Ford F150. After about 4 videos in which the procedure involved removing the gas tank ( not easy ) I found 1 that showed how to cut a hole in the bed of the truck to access the fuel pump port which is located on the top of the tank. Use the piece of bed that you have cut out as a access hatch.


You can usually loosen the gas tank and lower the pump end just enough to twist the low pressure pump out without actually removing the tank. The high pressure pump is usually mounted along the frame. It's been a while... like 20 years.


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

J.B. Weld said:


> And sometimes it actually is because you missed some bubbles with the standard bleed process.
> 
> Curious, do any of you over 50 geniuses ever have your oil changed at a jiffy lube?


Unless you really don't have the time, tools or work area to do the job, good grief, i hope none of you go to a jiffy lube or quick oil change place. I admit i do use Amsoil, but, if you got walmart oil and filter, you can change your oil for under $20. Most oil change places its over $70.


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

kpdemello said:


> This can really be said about almost any bike repair task. In most cases these are not terribly difficult skills to acquire and they can be done incrementally as needed. Even more complex aspects of suspension servicing are not really difficult per se, especially now in the age of youtube guides that can show you visually step by step how to disassemble, service, and reassemble parts.
> 
> This may sound controversial, but there's a reason bike mechanics are not paid that well. The skills involved are not that difficult or complicated. Bikes are pretty simple machines.


Now that's the reply I was looking for!


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

FrankS29 said:


> Shitposting?


That's why I went to the 50 +, we understand each other a bit more....


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

93M500 said:


> Unless you really don't have the time, tools or work area to do the job, good grief, i hope none of you go to a jiffy lube or quick oil change place. I admit i do use Amsoil, but, if you got walmart oil and filter, you can change your oil for under $20. Most oil change places its over $70.



It's $40 where I'm at. I'll gladly pay the $20 for extra leisure time.


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

beastmaster said:


> What on earth does bleeding brakes have to do with being 50+?


If your 50+, you've probably been working on bikes since the 70's and a lot more than some punk 16 year old. (not that all 16 yr olds are punks)


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

blammo585 said:


> The thing about YouTube videos, I hate when people showing you how to do something skips a step, and it's usually something important that you need to see. But they just gloss right over it. This happens in a lot of bike repair, auto repair, stereo installation stuff that I watch.


I totally agree!!!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Surely you don't need a youtube video if you've been fixing things long before youtube existed? That's for them do nothing wippersnappers!


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

Juansan said:


> You should check out at least 3 or more videos on the subject before you start. I'm getting prepared to change the fuel pump on a 1995 Ford F150. After about 4 videos in which the procedure involved removing the gas tank ( not easy ) I found 1 that showed how to cut a hole in the bed of the truck to access the fuel pump port which is located on the top of the tank. Use the piece of bed that you have cut out as a access hatch.


That's a great year/generation, 92-97.


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

milehi said:


> I do my own work because it gets done right the first time. Climbing out from under the Jeep is getting harder these days though and the wife wasn't happy about me rebuilding a CR 500 motor on the kitchen table last summer.


....and why do wives hate the smell of a little spray paint (always coming from the basement of course)


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

milehi said:


> I keep filters and oil in stock, ordered online and run the used oil through my chainsaw. I use a funnel so no mess. I also use extra capacity oil filters that shops don't carry.


You run used motor oil as your "bar oil" ???


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

netaron said:


> Is there a name for when you start a semi-hot topic, but don't care to respond to all the feedback? Definitely sounds like a rant.


I know, i post something then walk away for a couple days, sorry about that....


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## Desert Ryder (Aug 27, 2021)

OK..so brake bleeding is _normally_ a basic process.

I am over 50. I was an auto mechanic for 15 yrs.

My Formula disc brakes on a GT STS DH are driving me to frustration. I am about ready to pay the shop the $100+ to see if they can bleed them. Have to pay even if it doesn't work.
I'm not big on giving money to shops and prefer to do my own work on bikes and cars.

I have pumped/sucked at least 32 ozs. through each line. My last ditch will be to submerge the caliper in a gallon of brake fluid and push/pull brake fluid and see if I can get any pressure.
It's hard to believe both front and rear will not build any pressure. The front had some stopping originally but after trying to bleed I have zero pressure.

I can't believe I NEED to have a dual syringe system to bleed. Correct me if I am wrong.

The kit I am using:









The Formula brakes that are giving me fits:


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

See? Even an auto mechanic can't do it! You need to close that qr btw.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

93M500 said:


> You run used motor oil as your "bar oil" ???


Yep. Castrol synthetic at 5K. Stihl bar oil is $30 a gallon. I process 6-10cords of oak each year and it works fine.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Desert Ryder said:


> My Formula disc brakes on a GT STS DH are driving me to frustration. I am about ready to pay the shop the $100+ to see if they can bleed them. Have to pay even if it doesn't work.
> I'm not big on giving money to shops and prefer to do my own work on bikes and cars.
> 
> I can't believe I NEED to have a dual syringe system to bleed. Correct me if I am wrong.


I gave up on some newer Formula C1s recently. I'd never really used them, came on a bike, I changed them out and had them on a spare bike that my brother in law rode a lot. I thought I'd chuck them on another project and give them a bleed.
But yeah, a leak from somewhere deep in the master cylinder and needed the two syringes unlike Shimano which I'm used to. 

I think the awkward thing about the two syringe method is you need both syringes close together, and you need decent fittings so they don't pop off. It's easy to be a little aggressive to get one plunger moving and pop, off with the hose and fluid everywhere. NB the Formula instructions suggested leaving the pads in and using their pad spacer!! Now that's a sure fire way to ruin a set of pads!


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

milehi said:


> Yep. Castrol synthetic at 5K. Stihl bar oil is $30 a gallon. I process 6-10cords of oak each year and it works fine.


Ok, i never heard of that, but if it works, i'll try it. Yeah, bar oil is getting costly. I do a lot of cutting, but not nearly as much as you.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm a stickler for doing things right too but if I insisted on doing everything there's no way I could waste the amount of time riding a bike as I enjoy doing now. Unfortunately I still have to work for a living. Sacrifices must be made. A perfect oil change done and inspected by myself or a nice bike ride? Hmmm...


I hear ya. But sometimes, doing it myself actually saves time. Oil changes for example. I can change my oil in less time (~30 minutes) than it would take to drive to a shop and wait around for them to complete it. It's usually the same for most maintenance and repairs for me, be it it cars or bikes. But that's not the case with stuff around the house. No time savings there. In those cases, I pick and choose what I do. Basically, I only do the stuff enjoy doing and I also make sure my schedule allows me to ride 4-6 days a week if I want to. I NEVER give thought to choosing a bike ride over something else... riding is a given default priority.


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

Bleeding brakes is not hard. I have bled mine a few times. There's a nice cheap universal kit available on Amazon that you can use on different brands of brakes. And there's plenty of YouTube videos showing how to do it.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

FrankS29 said:


> I still save time no matter what.
> 
> 20-25 minute drive each way and last time I had it done it was because it was free for purchasing the car from the dealer.
> 
> ...


And don't forget having to take it back down there when you notice it dripping in your driveway... then waiting again, then talking to their manager, then getting the coupon for a free oil change that you don't bother using next time...


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

stiingya said:


> And don't forget having to take it back down there when you notice it dripping in your driveway... then waiting again, then talking to their manager, then getting the coupon for a free oil change that you don't bother using next time...




Haven't changed my own oil in about 20 years and have had that happen exactly zero times.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

milehi said:


> Yep. Castrol synthetic at 5K. Stihl bar oil is $30 a gallon. I process 6-10cords of oak each year and it works fine.


That’s what my dad used to do.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Zomby Woof (MCM700) said:


> Bleeding brakes is not hard. I have bled mine a few times. There's a nice cheap universal kit available on Amazon that you can use on different brands of brakes. And there's plenty of YouTube videos showing how to do it.


The syringes and hoses crap out after a little while IME. The fittings are the most important part, but all the kits I’ve bought were pretty much trash or trash shortly after.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

Jayem said:


> The syringes and hoses crap out after a little while IME. The fittings are the most important part, but all the kits I’ve bought were pretty much trash or trash shortly after.


I agree, and I've found that spending a lot on kits is useless. I just buy cheaper kits and just considered them semi disposable (good for a few bleeds). Interestingly though, the last cheap kit I picked up has turned out to be pretty decent. It's about two years old now I think, and has been through several bleeds on both my bikes and other's. I have a couple of friends that have been borrowing it as well. I'm not sure how many bleeds it's been though, but it's been many.

Mostly, the fittings are average and work as expected. The syringes, however, are great. But I only use this kit for mineral oil. DOT may have a different result with the syringes. In fact, the kit now states "Only Mineral Oil" (newest image of it below). The one I purchased some time ago didn't state that.

$35 on Amazon. These syringes have outlasted the last Park syringes I had which were about $100 (for the kit) as I recall.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fredcook said:


> I agree, and I've found that spending a lot on kits is useless. I just buy cheaper kits and just considered them semi disposable (good for a few bleeds).



Huh, we have the Park kit and I'd guess we probably get a few hundred bleed out of them.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Yesterday I had to appreciate the 'new' SRAM "Bleeding Edge" method. I had to bleed my new rear brake ( Guide Ts ) It was straightforward, almost zero spillage. I felt so confident that I also bled the front without even removing the pads.

Magura's in comparison? <gets a PTSD flash>


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

Regarding the last few posts about messy kits and added costs and such, here's my deal. I bought a kit and a big bottle of Shimano mineral oil, followed the directions from a very good mtb maint. book i got. Lot's of steps, a little messy, but not too bad. It had me bleeding the brakes from both ends. Then i'm like "what the frig" it's oil through a stinkin tube for cryin out loud! So I put the tube on the caliper nipple, filled the cup up on the brake handle and pumped it through until I saw solid mineral oil and no bubbles then closed off the caliper. Done! Afterwards the brakes had a lot of bite and felt and worked perfectly. Sooo, did I happen to get lucky? What's the difficult process here? Am I missing something? This was my first mtb brake bleed. I have bled a ton of cars though, same deal.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

At this point in my life, my time is more valuable than my money.

I'll pay someone I trust to do it, rather than not paying someone I don't trust (me) to do it.


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## stiingya (Apr 30, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Surely you don't need a youtube video if you've been fixing things long before youtube existed? That's for them do nothing wippersnappers!


I always bought the manuals in the old days, but just use YT now...


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

Colo Springs E said:


> At this point in my life, my time is more valuable than my money.
> 
> I'll pay someone I trust to do it, rather than not paying someone I don't trust (me) to do it.


I hear ya on that one, there are many jobs...whether it be home repairs or certain auto repairs that I CAN do, but let's face it, do I want to come home and remodel the bathroom or lay down some tile or sheetrock, or install a new exhaust system or drop a tranny? NO! I'd rather come home and read by bible, watch Netflix, play my guitar, mountain bike or go out to dinner with my wife! (not necessarily in that order).


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

stiingya said:


> I always bought the manuals in the old days, but just use YT now...


Agreed! YT has bailed me out of many jams! Auto, bike and home maintenance....amen!


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Colo Springs E said:


> At this point in my life, my time is more valuable than my money.
> 
> I'll pay someone I trust to do it, rather than not paying someone I don't trust (me) to do it.


I am exactly the opposite. I trust myself far more than any shop mechanic. Who do you think is more motivated to make sure the job is done properly?
This goes for any service required on my bike. It's just a bicycle afterall!


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

fredcook said:


> I hear ya. But sometimes, doing it myself actually saves time. Oil changes for example. I can change my oil in less time (~30 minutes) than it would take to drive to a shop and wait around for them to complete it. It's usually the same for most maintenance and repairs for me, be it it cars or bikes. But that's not the case with stuff around the house. No time savings there. In those cases, I pick and choose what I do. Basically, I only do the stuff enjoy doing and I also make sure my schedule allows me to ride 4-6 days a week if I want to. I NEVER give thought to choosing a bike ride over something else... riding is a given default priority.


Well said! I feel exactly the same way. Change my own oil and tires too. It's cheaper and faster.


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## afraid (Oct 18, 2009)

Skooks said:


> Well said! I feel exactly the same way. Change my own oil and tires too. It's cheaper and faster.


Turned 50 May 3, thanks. Regarding Magura difficulties, I recently decided to stop pulling on the caliper syringe, just push. Seems like the loose syringe attachment at the lever doesn’t create a perfect seal, so I was always pulling air into the system. 
So far it’s working, now I just do lever bleeds. Another trick, before opening the bleed port, squeeze the brake lever very slowly and hard, then release quickly, repeat several times. This should coax bubbles up to the top.
Now, after 3 or 4 rides, why is there always room for more oil? Must be some air intrusion somewhere?


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Skooks said:


> Well said! I feel exactly the same way. Change my own oil and tires too. It's cheaper and faster.


Power company sent out a notice saying power would be out all day. I updated the electrical most of the day.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

Skooks said:


> I am exactly the opposite. I trust myself far more than any shop mechanic. Who do you think is more motivated to make sure the job is done properly?
> This goes for any service required on my bike. It's just a bicycle afterall!


I would pay someone but,... if you want a job done right.

I learned how to work on motorcycles and then cars by dealing with having to redo the jobs myself I paid the professionals to do. I didn't want to learn but it was necessary. Have the shop put on new steel braided lines, tell me they had trouble bleeding them, then discover no front breaks as I merged with traffic on the highway, etc. 

Back in day, the japanese motorcycle shop manuals were very well written. Easy to learn on. I figure I can do a better job on bicycles with youtube and some tool investments than a busy shop. But I will still throw the bike shop a job here or there and see how good their work is.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

Skooks said:


> I am exactly the opposite. I trust myself far more than any shop mechanic. Who do you think is more motivated to make sure the job is done properly?
> This goes for any service required on my bike. It's just a bicycle afterall!


I trust the bike mechanic more haha. I'm mechanically hopeless, and I hate myself for it, but it's how it is.


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## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

Colo Springs E said:


> I trust the bike mechanic more haha. I'm mechanically hopeless, and I hate myself for it, but it's how it is.


Hey, at least your honest with yourself and you know where you stand. No wondering or guessing, take it to the shop, done! Good mechanics are like good doctors, you stay with them, and they are hard to find.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

...Damn, where did I put that 2.5mm Allen. I had it a second ago. Ok, now where the heck did I lay the 7mm open end wrench...


----------



## whatizitman (Apr 14, 2021)

J.B. Weld said:


> And sometimes it actually is because you missed some bubbles with the standard bleed process.
> 
> Curious, do any of you over 50 geniuses ever have your oil changed at a jiffy lube?


I was a grease monkey for a while to pay the bills while in grad school. I went to grad school so I wouldn't have to be a grease monkey the rest of my life. So no, I take my cars to Jiffy, etc..., dealer, or my mechanic for oil changes. I can do it, no problem. I choose not to, and don't mind paying for someone else to do it.

I haven't bled my bike brakes yet, but I'm gonna need to sooner or later. Probably time to start collecting tools. But really the main reason I'll probably do it myself is because I don't want to leave my bike at a shop for gawdknowshowlong. We only have one good shop in the area, and spring/summer service turnarounds is in weeks to months. No way. So, youtube will probably be my friend yet again for that. Not in a hurry, though. I had one fade that I could feel, and it was after the bike had sat for several months. A few pumps on the brake handle and it's been fine since.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

Lone Rager said:


> ...Damn, where did I put that 2.5mm Allen. I had it a second ago. Ok, now where the heck did I lay the 7mm open end wrench...


This is actually a serious comment on the issue. If you have a whole garage or workshop to set yourself up, you can realistically expect to be able to do this kind of stuff. If all your tools and parts are in a couple of Rubbermaid tubs in a corner of the garage, and you're maxed out for space, it's more an exercise in frustration than anything. I've been in both situations, and I know it makes a huge difference to whether or not you even want to start on something.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

DennisT said:


> This is actually a serious comment on the issue. If you have a whole garage or workshop to set yourself up, you can realistically expect to be able to do this kind of stuff. If all your tools and parts are in a couple of Rubbermaid tubs in a corner of the garage, and you're maxed out for space, it's more an exercise in frustration than anything. I've been in both situations, and I know it makes a huge difference to whether or not you even want to start on something.


I worked on my bike in my home office for years, out of a toolbox. You just have to be cleaner, and more organized.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Canti-lever brakes, now those things were complicated. Remember the third and fourth hand tools we use to use?

Brake bleeds, can be messy if you make a mistake but they certainly aren't complicated.


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Colo Springs E said:


> At this point in my life, my time is more valuable than my money.
> 
> I'll pay someone I trust to do it, rather than not paying someone I don't trust (me) to do it.


That's quite often false economy though. I used to change all my own motorcycle tyres, because of all the farting around actually getting the bike, or wheels to the shop, getting rides home or to work while the tyres were being changed, getting a lift back to the shop, & huge inconveniences if the shop didn't actually get the job finished that day. More often than not, it devolved into a big PITA. It was quicker, easier & less frustrating just to set aside an hour, and do it myself. Don't get me wrong, for stuff that requires specialised tools, such as bottom bracket thread chasing, facing parts etc, I'm more than happy to pay for someone else to do it. For the sake of a couple of rags, a bottle of mineral oil, and a bit of plastic tube, it more than beats p!ssing around dragging my bike off to the LBS.


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