# ~$700 DJ for 6'5" talll guy?



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Edit - please see my 2nd post in addition to this one. 

I'm looking for a bike. I'm 6'5" 205 lbs w/ 36" inseam. Took my kids to The Lumberyard in Portland and got bit by the bug.  They really enjoyed it so we're going to be going there more.

I turned 40 last year. Ridden road and XC for a while but want to be able to share the DJ park experience with my kids(4 and 6 yr old boys) and always wanted to learn to clear those pump track jumps. I was living the dream last week when all three of us were riding at the same time at the lumberyard wearing big smiles. :thumbsup: I built my kids some small rollers to practice on at home which I think helped them get ready for the lumberyard.

I have a full suspension XC but it's not the best for riding there. Rented a DJ and man, was that fun. Would like to get one to ride some stuff around my home as well.

I've read some older threads about this subject but I'm curious what options are currently out there for a ~$700 budget?

Appreciate any input!


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

You're going to want a DJ frame that is a Large or XL. Small is typically 21.5" actual top tube (measured center of seat tube to center of head tube). Medium is 22". Large is 22.5"ish. 23" would be considered XL. I'm not aware of any non-custom DJ-specific frames longer than 23"tt. However, I think 22.5" or 23" would fit you well.

The TRANSITION Trail or Park 23" would particularly be good (although that model is not made any more), because it's built with a lower bottom bracket and intended for a 100mm travel fork. The "cockpit" will therefore feel roomy.










https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f61/large-xl-dirt-jump-frame-bike-info-258270/[/URL

[URL="https://forums.mtbr.com/urban-dj-park/thoughts-rocky-mountain-flow-dj-2010-a-698543.html"]https://forums.mtbr.com/urban-dj-park/thoughts-rocky-mountain-flow-dj-2010-a-698543.html

The Rocky Mountain DJ from 2011 was one of the few complete DJ bikes in your price range that came with a long front end.

You can also make a frame feel longer with a 70mm stem, although in general it's better to get the correct frame length and run a standard DJ stem length which is about 50mm.


----------



## Wulf1971 (Dec 15, 2008)

Sizing aside, I would up your budget a couple hundred. It will expand your options and you'll get a more solid bike for your size.


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for this info and the reality check. Yeah - kinda took a stab at what I thought I'd need to spend. I know the sky is the limit with bikes, but what price am I looking at for an entry level built DJ in my size? Bike suggestions?

I'd rather spend $ on something that will fit properly vs $ on something that I will regret buying because I skimped on a few hundred. Done that before and learned from it.

Thanks.

somegeek


----------



## Wulf1971 (Dec 15, 2008)

This is a good option in your price range: Haro Bikes - MTB - Bikes - Freestyle MTB - Steel Reserve 1.2

The long size has a top tube just over 22", a good fit and the price is right. If the cockpit still feels small you can always buy a little longer stem.

(BTW: I go to the lumberyard too, usually on Saturdays a couple times a month)


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Craiglist can be pretty good for DJ bikes. Just search DJ and "jump" and "jumper" ....

specialized p2 dirt jumper

2013 Kona Shonky dirt jumper

2008 Blk Mrkt .357 Dirt Jumper - $400 (Seattle) 
2008 Blk Mrkt .357 Dirt Jumper

You can also run some 4" rise bmx cruiser bars if you want a taller feel (for not hunching down as much). These are Immortis Bucket bars, which or sort of copies of or inspired-by S&M C4 bars which aren't made anymore.

Keep in mind that bmx bars have a clamp area that is 7/8" or 22.2mm instead of the mtb size of 1" or 25.4mm (not to mention 31.8" for DH).

You can get bmx stems with up to 63mm reach. Like the Profile Mark Mulville stem: Profile Racing E-Store So, if you wanted to make your frame feel roomier, you could run this stem.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Eastern MadDog on serious sale....

Eastern Maddog Bike 2013 > Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

It says it has a 22.5" top tube.

The Eastern Thunderbird and Eastern NightTrain had 21.5" if I remember right.

So either they did make the Maddog longer, or it's a typo/mistake.


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

I would check out transitions BLT or PBJ they both come in a large frame option. I rode the large frame option of the BLT, I'm 5'11, and it was huge. Tons of room. The guy I borrowed it from was 6'3" and he said it was the best fitting dj bike he has ever owned. 
https://www.transitionbikes.com/2014/Bikes_PBJ.cfm?Token={ts_2014-02-11_08:48:36}-d614de6769888eb9-4CE0878E-AAB4-1F95-A5AAF5C72135F9EC

it is unfortunately over your budget but maybe you can find one on the internet on discount or a used one. That guys said he bought his from a shop in WA and paid about $1000 after shipping for a 2013 model brand new


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

Im 6'5" my self and i am running a fireeye shortfuse 360 (24") even with my lanky legs it is fine. I would say, just build one from an NS frame.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for this info!



cmc4130 said:


> specialized p2 dirt jumper


What are your thoughts on this bike? Am I missing much by buying a six year old bike? Don't imagine the frames have changed that much.


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

somegeek said:


> Thanks for this info!
> 
> What are your thoughts on this bike? Am I missing much by buying a six year old bike? Don't imagine the frames have changed that much.


No that looks pretty nice, the age shouldn't matter too much 

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Sorry - meant to post this one - Specialized P2 Dirt Jumper - $900

Thoughts?


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

somegeek said:


> Sorry - meant to post this one - Specialized P2 Dirt Jumper - $900
> 
> Thoughts?


Looks better  Yeah dude go for whatever you prefare.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

If you're looking for a DJ on a budget, I would take some of these suggestions and figure out what you're looking for, and what you want to spend, and then filter the Pinkbike classifieds for DJ bikes and USA, and spend a week watching. There's an enormous amount options there. I saw loads of Transition ToPs and NS Suburbans in a couple weeks. You should be able to find something nice in your budget. I think a lot of people buy DJs and realize they don't use them as much as they expected.


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

both look good, the geo has changed a bit in the last few years. I have a '07 night train and it is a solid bike but things have gotten better and lighter but both are solid bikes to get you in the game, IMO


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

evasive said:


> If you're looking for a DJ on a budget, I would take some of these suggestions and figure out what you're looking for, and what you want to spend, and then filter the Pinkbike classifieds for DJ bikes and USA, and spend a week watching. There's an enormous amount options there. I saw loads of Transition ToPs and NS Suburbans in a couple weeks. You should be able to find something nice in your budget. I think a lot of people buy DJs and realize they don't use them as much as they expected.


that is great advice, figure out what you are looking for and set a budget and start looking. I would recommend trying to ride as many as you can. Maybe start by going to your local ride spot/bike park(lumber yard) and asking people to ride their bike.
A lot of these bikes look similar but ride very different.

What bike did you rent and ride the last time? what did you like about it? Best to make an informed purchase so you don't have to buy a new one next year....

Like I mentioned I have a Eastern Night train '07 I got it for a steal, I couldn't beat the price but now I'm back in the market because it isn't really the bike I want. I've rode more bikes now and know more of what I want.... I'd recommend you do the same... good luck


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> Sorry - meant to post this one - Specialized P2 Dirt Jumper - $900
> 
> Thoughts?


No. Overpriced and weird. Suntour XCR is a low end fork (they're new for $100-ish). 
True the Chris King hubs are expensive. But otherwise that bike should be about $350-$400. 
Not clear if those are higher end BMX Redlines or were taken off a complete like a Redline Monocog mtb or something.


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

cmc4130 said:


> No. Overpriced and weird. Suntour XCR is a low end fork (they're new for $100-ish).
> True the Chris King hubs are expensive. But otherwise that bike should be about $350-$400.
> Not clear if those are higher end BMX Redlines or were taken off a complete like a Redline Monocog mtb or something.


Yeah the suntours are the only thing i noticed seemed abit crap haha Im running like $100 rockshox, so mine aren't much better.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

This is my 24". It cost around £700 to build which i think is just over $1000  But i got the frame £200 off the RRP from Chain Reaction haha









Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Other than certain companies coming out with "park" geo (ultra ultra short back end and zero drop bb), I don't think geo has changed enough since the late 2000's to make you not buy a bike from that time. (I say that as a person who still has a 2008 Black Market Mob). Between my 24" park bike, bmx 24"s, and the Mob, having a super short back end (like less than 15.5") and a zero drop bb height is noticeable, but it does not make riding jumps more stable; for tech street in a bmx style, it feels more snappy (like for 180/360 bunny hops etc) but for trails/jumps, I dont think you gain anything. Of course people have personal preferences though.


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

As you mention geometry's there, that frame i am riding has a super short back end as it is a supposed street frame.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Admittedly, I'm a newbie at DJ. Just getting on the bike that I did at the lumberyard felt very foreign compared to my Specialized Enduro or my road bike geometries. The bike I rented one day at the Lumberyard was much more fun than my full suspension on that terrain but felt very compact. I knew this was a different type of bike so this was expected, but after a few hours, I felt like the cockpit could have been a little more stretched out.

Thanks for the advice regarding pink bike. I'll start checking that out and post here if I find something that looks decent. Buying used to save $ on a first DJ would be sweet to get my bearings. If it doesn't work out and I want different geometry, I can flip it. 

Appreciate everyone's input so far!


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> having a super short back end (like less than 15.5") and a zero drop bb height is noticeable, but it does not make riding jumps more stable; for tech street in a bmx style, it feels more snappy (like for 180/360 bunny hops etc) but for trails/jumps, I dont think you gain anything. Of course people have personal preferences though.


I would agree with you 100% on this... it would actually make the bike less stable but more snappy but unless you are sending big stuff I don't feel the need to have a super stable bike like the Transition PBJ and would personally opt for something more like a BLT that is more snappy and responsive . I think the geo changes are mostly subtle but the HA, tt, CSL and BB heights have changed over the last couple years especially. You are right a lot of companies like NS, Deity and Transition are now coming out with dirt and park frames... things are more specific built but it is personal preference


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> Admittedly, I'm a newbie at DJ. Just getting on the bike that I did at the lumberyard felt very foreign compared to my Specialized Enduro or my road bike geometries. The bike I rented one day at the Lumberyard was much more fun than my full suspension on that terrain but felt very compact. I knew this was a different type of bike so this was expected, but after a few hours, I felt like the cockpit could have been a little more stretched out.


.
If you were riding a Medium, at your height, I agree. But in general DJ bikes are less stretched out than XC. What it does is shift your standing stance back to where you are centered over the bottom bracket or even a little behind it. This lets the front end come up when boosting a jump.


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for that explanation.  Make a lot of sense.

The Santa Cruz Jakal is the one I rode. The bar was flat as well, no rise. Seems like if it had a few inches of rise, I would not have felt so hunched over?

I've also read about lower bottom brackets on some frames as well helping taller riders feel less 'on-top' of their bike. Is this true?

I'm sure I'll be happy riding something close to the mark. Sounds like if I can get a large frame with a low bottom bracket, I can make some adjustments later with a riser bar and slightly longer stem if needed?


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Yeah definitely. I know it's a popular look right now, but a flat bar on a DJ bike is way too low for me. Switching the flat bars for some 3", 3.5" etc. will make a massive difference.

As for bb height, yes that's true. You can tell by looking at a complete bike from the side whether the crank bolt is below the level of the wheel axles. Most DJ bikes are. However, it can be weirdly inconsistent to compare stats across different bikes because companies measure this stuff differently. Tire height and fork height will change what a reported bb height is. (And fork height can vary a lot. For example, the Black Market Edit1 says 12.75"bb height, but that's with a 414 axle to crown fork (which is a lot lower than a typical suspension fork 457mm a-c (80mm travel) or 477mm a-c(100mm travel).

Frames

Then, like with Transition, the BLT has zero bb drop and the PBJ has 1" bb drop. (Those names don't help me remember. Heh. PBJ's are more gooey?).
https://www.transitionbikes.com/2014/Bikes_PBJ.cfm?Token={ts_2014-02-17_13:18:50}-618f7a0f06a05b6c-6548A7F5-BE18-E5B9-E28332FF21E5C067#divGeometryI


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah it sure would be nice if every company used BB drop and not BB height measurement as BB height has so many variables. BB drop is the most accurate. Positive number the BB is below the axle and negative number the BB is above the axle

most modern BMX bikes have a (-) negative BB drop, most DJ bikes are (+) positive BB height and I think I'm safe to say all road and normal MTB bikes have a (+) positive BB height or a lower slung BB so to start with you will most likely feel more at home on a lower BB and it will depend on the type of riding you plan to do.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

cglasford said:


> Yeah it sure would be nice if every company used BB drop and not BB height measurement as BB height has so many variables. BB drop is the most accurate. Positive number the BB is below the axle and negative number the BB is above the axle
> 
> most modern BMX bikes have a (-) negative BB drop, most DJ bikes are (+) positive BB height and I think I'm safe to say all road and normal MTB bikes have a (+) positive BB height or a lower slung BB so to start with you will most likely feel more at home on a lower BB and it will depend on the type of riding you plan to do.


Yeah, you're right! But "negative bb drop" (to actually mean positive bb rise) sounds weird to me. No one in BMX would say that. Heh heh. It's bb drop or bb rise. 

BMX









TRIALS









ROAD


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah you are right, plus most people don't look at these things or understand them. I know I didn't until I started riding a bunch of bikes and wondering why I liked one and didn't like another and asking a bunch of questions and reading a bunch of forums. Untiil then I couldn't put my finger on it until I started really looking at Geometry of them and started to notice little differences. .5 degree HA hear, few mm of BB height there, a few mm of top tube or chain stay length... all these little numbers add up and can really change the ride and feel of a bike at least to me or IMO


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

yeah definitely. the lame part, though, is when companies start marketing these small differences as being what a person "needs" for some type of riding. 
like when i first got into DJ mtb's, most bmx'ers (I was one for many years) were still saying that jumping mountain bikes (or even just 26" wheels at all) was stupid, that 20"s were "designed" for bmx riding. yeah.... well kind of.... more like 20" wheels were an accident of history because bmx racing started as a kids sport on schwinn stingrays--then they got gradually adapted and riders adapted themselves and got really good at riding them. with the size of ramps and dirt that bmx is at right now, i'd argue that 22" wheels are better than 20"s. but it's still been slow (but steady) to catch on, for industry and cultural reasons, not real reasons.
22's Go Here - BMXmuseum.com Forums

so i like to see when people push different designs and try things on new setups. like danny macaskill riding 'trials' and 'bmx street' on the same bike. or andreu lacondeguy riding FMX-sized jumps and busting "bmx" tricks.... 
a lot of people think the person is supposed to conform to the bike (one size fits all) instead of people figuring out different bikes they like. and it always comes back to the rider, not the bike, as far as what's possible. :thumbsup:


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah for sure.. That is why I encourage people to ride as many bikes as they can. Sure a Deity Crypt Keeper is better for dirt because it is designed for it but one most definitely can shred it in a park just takes a little bit more input to make it perform the way the Street sweeper would and visa versa... it is 100% the rider and not the bike, as long as we aren't talking POS big box store bikes, and the majority of us will never reach the limits of what our bikes can do. plus you can never have too many bikes, haha


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

What are your thoughts on this bike/price?

Black Market Riot 22.5" TT - Pinkbike

I contacted the seller and he's 6'4" and said this fits pretty good.

somegeek


----------



## MalignantQuechnitlan (Jan 6, 2014)

somegeek said:


> What are your thoughts on this bike/price?
> 
> Black Market Riot 22.5" TT - Pinkbike
> 
> ...


That one actualy looks pretty sweet, it should also be a good size for you.

Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> What are your thoughts on this bike/price?
> 
> Black Market Riot 22.5" TT - Pinkbike
> 
> ...


I could be wrong, but I had the impression that the Riot only came in 21.5" or 22"tt. Not sure.

Also, I don't recall X-Fusion Velvet fork coming in white. Very well could have.

I think it's a little overpriced. The new Black Market .357 complete was going for $750/800-ish a few years ago.

I have seen similar used Black Market complete used, for more like $550 / $600 .... Like this: Blkmrkt riot 26" 600$ or trade for bmx - Pinkbike

To be fair though, a complete build, starting with a $400 frame does add up to $1400-$1600....


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> I could be wrong, but I had the impression that the Riot only came in 21.5" or 22"tt. Not sure.
> 
> Also, I don't recall X-Fusion Velvet fork coming in white. Very well could have.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply CMC. The seller of the $850 bike stated he thinks it's a 2011. He said it was not noted when he bought it off pinkbike initially so he doesn't know.


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

What are your thoughts on this one? Specialized P3

specialized p3 - Pinkbike

Not getting much response on the MOBs I've seen so far.

somegeek


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Looks solid... I personally like specialized stuff... best stuff from the big brands IMO... make him and offer


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

And soderstrom rides one and he is pretty tall so it should fit you


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> What are your thoughts on this one? Specialized P3
> 
> specialized p3 - Pinkbike
> 
> ...


The Specialized P. bikes used to come in different sizes. Now I think maybe they're all Mediums? Like 22" top tube? Not sure.


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah one size now... 22 inch... I'm 5'11" and I like it a lot with a 40mm stem


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Saw Soderstrom in a pic and that was convincing. Dude is like 6'5"?

My LBS has the 2014 Specialized P3 on sale for $1170. Gonna check it out tomorrow. 

Thanks again for the replies.


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Pulled the trigger and picked up a Specialized P3 yesterday. Feels pretty good however I'm going to look at replacing the 40mm stem with a 60mm and the 1.5"(I think) stock riser with a 2.5" - 3" riser. Gonna start a separate thread to get some input there from taller riders.


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> Pulled the trigger and picked up a Specialized P3 yesterday. Feels pretty good however I'm going to look at replacing the 40mm stem with a 60mm and the 1.5"(I think) stock riser with a 2.5" - 3" riser. Gonna start a separate thread to get some input there from taller riders.


Sounds like a good plan. Def get 3"s, 3.25"s, or maybe even NS District 4"s.


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

these are the bars I would get... 80mm rise

RIVERA

and they still rock a 31.8 clamp diameter.... I personally wouldn't go over 50mm with a stem on a DJ bike but do what make the bike feel best for you... it will start to change the handling


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Thanks for the component suggestions. I'll check 'em out. Maybe I'll just go with the risers first to see what that does for me. The sweep is putting the grips back towards me... are there zero sweep bars out there? Is this a bad option?


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Not that I'm aware off... some other popular dj bars are

deity ::: Topsoil Handlebar - deity components

SPANK Bike's website/tools for superheroes

NS Bikes 2014 - Stay True!

the only bars with an 80mm rise that I know of with a 31.8 clamp diameter are those kores, other wise you have to go to a 25.4

I don't know about that personally i've seen those little bars break with the higher rises.... I personally like the higher rise but I know a lot of guys are going low rise or no rise these days....


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

cglasford said:


> these are the bars I would get... 80mm rise
> 
> RIVERA
> 
> and they still rock a 31.8 clamp diameter.... I personally wouldn't go over 50mm with a stem on a DJ bike but do what make the bike feel best for you... it will start to change the handling


Thanks for this. $49 at my LBS. Will check 'em out.


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

Still riding this bike stock. I put in a half day at my local indoor park and I'm getting used to this geometry now. I dig it! I may look at a 50mm stem and higher riser in time but for now it feels okay. Thanks for all the replies!


----------



## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

glad it is working out!


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> Still riding this bike stock. I put in a half day at my local indoor park and I'm getting used to this geometry now. I dig it! I may look at a 50mm stem and higher riser in time but for now it feels okay. Thanks for all the replies!


pics ?! 
; )


----------



## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

somegeek said:


> Still riding this bike stock. I put in a half day at my local indoor park and I'm getting used to this geometry now. I dig it! I may look at a 50mm stem and higher riser in time but for now it feels okay. Thanks for all the replies!


how'd it work for 2014?! ; )


----------



## somegeek (Jun 6, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> how'd it work for 2014?! ; )


Worked out well, thanks. I ended up changing my bar/stem setup on my mountain bike after riding this P3 for a while. On my mountain bike I went with a 4" wider handlebar and much shorter stem. Really like this wide bar and short stem. Handles much better.

Learning to hit larger boxes at my local park on my P3. Went down a few weeks ago pretty hard on my knee/face so I've been on the bench healing but enjoying hitting larger hits.  Just need to get back and put more time in. Learning how to drop my front end as I land accordingly. I effed up by not paying attention and landed my front wheel a touch too much on the deck. My bike wanted to stay there and my body's trajectory aimed at the landing so I fell down to the bottom of the jump. That hurt.

My 5 and 7 yr olds are slowly pushing themselves and progressing which is fun to watch.

somegeek


----------

