# Full Face Helmet?



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I've been considering replacing my half-lid helmet with a convertible full-face one. I'd also replace my son's too. But, I've been riding over 35 years and never had a crash where a full-face would make any difference. And they're a bit expensive. I know, not as expensive as dental work...

Most of my riding is slower speed steep tech in the PNW. However, we typically visit bike parks on our family vacations and a new park is in development near me.

Anyone have direct experiences where a full-face would have been a big difference in the severity of the crash?

Is it work the extra expense?


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

I am going to buy a convertible helmet this year. I should have last year but I do not like going into stores.
I have a xc and a regular full face. I used to carry my FF on the handle bars when riding the Dh areas but I seem to ride from home a lot so a convertible is on the list.
I have had several crashes that a FF would have helped. Scars on my nose and chin. I have friends with broken teeth that should have had FF's on.
My wife's FF has scratches from the ear down through to the chin. If she wasn't wearing it, well it would have been a lot of stitches.
Just buy it and use it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> a new park is in development near me.


Yo… details please!

And yes, I’ve used the chin bar feature more than once riding DH. If you’re going to be hitting a park then you’ll definitely want a full face.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

I bought a Bell Super 3r after a face plant that luckily caused minor injury. Decided I was lucky I didn't lose my teeth. Never ride bike parks or rocky downhill trails near me without it. Can barely tell the difference riding uphill with the face guard stashed in my pack.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I have ridden in a bike park with a half-shell, but I wouldn’t do it again (outside of a flow/jump area like JHMR’s lower trails). There’s no penalty for wearing a full face when you’re riding lifts, and you put in so many more miles of fast/technical riding in a day.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Snoqualmie pass has a bike park that is supposed to be opening this summer. Which is great because Steven pass gave up on bikes since right before Covid. I’m also hoping to check it out this summer, as I’ve never really “ridden park” : D.

I wear a Bell Super DH on literally every ride, and have taken the chin bar off for like… 2 rides maybe? So while a convertible helmet was what I originally wanted, I’d I had to replace the Super DH, I’d absolutely consider any of the lighter non-convertible full faces out there (IXS Trigger, etc). And while I haven’t ridden in Phoenix level heat with it, I’ve ridden in Utah at 105f and still felt fine with the chin bar on, as the rest of the helmet ventilated pretty well.

If you do one, I’d personally go for one with a DH rating, especially if you plan to ride park with it.

But, I also grew up riding dirt bikes, so a full face feels totally normal. AND I have two porcelain front teeth(boating accident as a kid), so a full face is way cheaper and easier than getting those replaced. So my preferences might be atypical.


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## shadowsports (May 10, 2009)

For me, not much to think about. Protecting my face and teeth is worth it. Mostly teeth as I'm already married.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

For climbing/trail riding these 2 in 1 helmets are okish, but if you plan hitting bike parks, get full dh helmet or at least one of the light enduro helmets.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

I have had many crashes where the FF has saved me so to me it's worth it. I've noticed though that everyone seems to have their typical crash and mine seems to always target my head at the ground. You may not have that issue.

Except for pure XC rides (so basically anything there there's a descent where I can let loose) I wear an enduro FF. Currently the IXS Trigger FF, but I've used the 100%, Fox Proframe, and the TLD version. (Like I said, I crash) They've all been great. I don't have any issues breathing but I'm not sprinting up the climbs. I had the Leatt convertible and its nice but I never used the chin bar, which is what I hear a lot of people say about convertibles. It's certainly possible to take it off on a long climb but it's another thing to remember to stop and do at the top and bottom of a hill so just riding with a FF that breathes well is less mental overhead for me.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

So far, I haven't found a huge reason for a full face (yet). I wore my full face when I rode Tiger Mountain 3-4 times many years ago. I never went on the double diamond lines but having them for the blue/single diamond trails gave me a little more peace of mind. I'm sure you know this, but those trails are wet year round and it's very rooty in some areas. 

For daily rides, it's all up to the rider but I like my half shell. If I were to attempt those crazy jump lines at BDOS or possibly some at Duthie, I'd definitely wear full face.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

For park riding 100% full face helmet. The speeds are high. I don't need to test it to know, other people already did for me.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I have a Bell Super DH, remove the chin bar for every ride. For park I have a carbon Bell Full 9. 

For convertibles I think the Super DH is the best design and the extra weight isn't a big deal vs the non DH rated version.


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## connolm (Sep 12, 2009)

I did group rides with a guy who clipped a tree with his face in a gentle turn. XC type riding. Still, he broke his skull from his eye socket down to his top molars and needed surgery. That changed my mind!

So I got a lighter full face Fox helmet. It's great at the bike park and helps me feel safer on technical New England rides.

But it's also hot, limits my view, I can't wipe my nose nor do snot rockets, and I can't drink with it on. So I retreated back to the regular helmet on more XC type rides. 

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

I'm also going with a convertible for the first time this year (a Bell also). I have an older FF, but it literally has like...one vent, so it's really only practical for the local session jump park (I might try Trestle this year too...so it would go there). But last year I really started to venture outside of only doing XC trails and convertibles are good now they've gone through a few iterations. Trails are also being built far differently than when I started riding MTB (in the 80's) and speeds are also far higher. I'm pretty psyched to have these choices nowadays!


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## PatRidesBikes (Aug 19, 2019)

I'm a chiropractor. I was on the fence about full face helmet for more intense enduro riding. As I was debating a $100 fly helmet, I had 2 new patients present with histories of TMJ due to mountain bike accidents years ago. That was enough of a sign from above for me. I wear full face unless I'm on a rail-trail. People may think I look like a wanna-be-squid, but TMJ pain is nothing to shake a stick at. If it saves you once, it will be cheaper than lifelong pain or $30 copays every 3 weeks.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

FWIW most guys I’ve known who bought a convertible helmet ended up ditching it and buying a fixed chin bar full face before long.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> FWIW most guys I’ve known who bought a convertible helmet ended up ditching it and buying a fixed chin bar full face before long.


Interesting. Do you know why?

I’m considering the Bell AirR, the TLD Stage, and maybe the Bell Super DH.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

IXS Trigger MIPS. Best in its category. For park I’d honestly ride a dh helmet or something like the POC Coron that is rated for multiple impacts.


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## jab253 (May 8, 2017)

Your post asked if anyone had any direct experience, so here goes...

Short story long, I was going to buy my wife a Troy Lee Stage for Christmas back around when they came out. We were in the bike shop that November with them sitting there on the shelf in her size. I thought, "Man, I should just grab it for her here and now, call it an early present and not have to deal with finding it down the road." That lacked the holiday gift-y surprise-y vibe, so I decided to pass on buying it that day. That same I afternoon I was following her down Bob's at Galbraith (just a mellow, fun trail)...she miscalculated going into a berm, overshot it and got flung directly into a rock mouth first in the blink of an eye. Many badly cracked front teeth, tremendous pain and discomfort, many trips to the dentist for well over a year to put things back together.

Having bought that helmet for her that day would almost certainly have saved her a whole experience she could have done without. Not to mention the blow to her confidence on the bike after taking that hit. Things can happen fast out there as we all know...It sucks to have your face be a victim of that, and for sure it sucks to see it happen to someone else when you know it was preventable.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Curveball said:


> I've been considering replacing my half-lid helmet with a convertible full-face one. I'd also replace my son's too. But, I've been riding over 35 years and never had a crash where a full-face would make any difference. And they're a bit expensive. I know, not as expensive as dental work...
> 
> Most of my riding is slower speed steep tech in the PNW. However, we typically visit bike parks on our family vacations and a new park is in development near me.
> 
> ...


I despise the convertible helmets, and would recommend a dedicated full face. It's a must have if you're riding bike parks. 

I had the TLD D3 Fiberlite and cracked it at Killington after a pretty rough accident. The shop had limited selection, so I ended up with the TLD Stage ... PHENOMENAL helmet and well worth the $300 I spend on it. It's unbelievable how light it is. Thought my D3 was light, but the Stage is on another level and well worth the $50 premium. 

As far as if it's worth it to you, well, if it were me I'd rather not find out. I visit parks quite regularly, and it's not uncommon to see some dope coming down the lift with a half shield and blood gushing from his mouth. And if you got a new park coming to your area, and your son rides, you know you'll be visiting that park fairly regularly. 

And I'd never rent a helmet. Grosses me out. But yeah, TLD Stage. Light, great protection and ventilation and looks pretty sick too.


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## Organ (Jan 30, 2004)

I hope everyone in this thread gets a full face and uses it 100% of the time. Why? Simply to make it the norm sooner rather than later. I think they will be the norm eventually, but they still have some stigma today on multi-use trails. Non-riders (and even lots of riders) still consider them something only hoodlums that are bombing trails use. FF helmets are so light and breathable now there is very little reason not to wear them.

Maybe it’s the “big dentist” lobby keeping them down.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

jab253 said:


> Your post asked if anyone had any direct experience, so here goes...
> 
> Short story long, I was going to buy my wife a Troy Lee Stage for Christmas back around when they came out. We were in the bike shop that November with them sitting there on the shelf in her size. I thought, "Man, I should just grab it for her here and now, call it an early present and not have to deal with finding it down the road." That lacked the holiday gift-y surprise-y vibe, so I decided to pass on buying it that day. That same I afternoon I was following her down Bob's at Galbraith (just a mellow, fun trail)...she miscalculated going into a berm, overshot it and got flung directly into a rock mouth first in the blink of an eye. Many badly cracked front teeth, tremendous pain and discomfort, many trips to the dentist for well over a year to put things back together.
> 
> Having bought that helmet for her that day would almost certainly have saved her a whole experience she could have done without. Not to mention the blow to her confidence on the bike after taking that hit. Things can happen fast out there as we all know...It sucks to have your face be a victim of that, and for sure it sucks to see it happen to someone else when you know it was preventable.


Okay, I’m sold.
My wife had a bad wreck in Squamish and it took her a long time to regain her confidence.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I'd also consider the potential of the helmet to prevent concussion, part of the reason I like the Bell Super DH is the layered foam and slightly greater thickness of the helmet to reduce g forces vs the Bell Air and many other lightweight ff helmets w/ fixed chinbars... I also think the Super DH chinbar is more secure vs the Giro switchblade, another dh-rated model. I'd rather crash in a Super DH than any other helmet with the exception of a high end carbon dh helmet. 

Convertible makes sense if you have long climbs, but it's a personal choice if you'll find it valuable.


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## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Curveball said:


> I’m considering the Bell AirR, the TLD Stage, and maybe the Bell Super DH.


I just purchased the Bell Super Air R last month and quite like it. At first it’s a pain to try and line up the slots to connect the chin bar without removing the helmet, but after a few practice attempts it becomes fairly easy. The helmet comes with two sets of cheek pads, a slimmer set that comes installed and a slightly thicker set in the box. I have a bit of a square chin and when I first tried on the helmet and lightly tapped the chin bar, the edge would painfully hit my chin. I ended up installing the thicker pads, and placed some double sided Velcro on the slim pads and stuck them along the jawline below the vents to add additional padding. Works great for me now. It’s hot enough where I ride that I hate climbing in the heat with a full face, even well ventilated ones are brutal. Being able to remove the chin bar works great for me. 

I purchased through Western Bikeworks with their 20% discount for signing up with their email program.

I was considering the Bell Super DH, but when I was talking with the Western Bikeworks customer support, who said he has both the Super Air and Super DH that he won’t wear the DH for pedal days because even at lift parks around the Portland, OR area he’ll still end up with sweat pouring out.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> Interesting. Do you know why?
> 
> I’m considering the Bell AirR, the TLD Stage, and maybe the Bell Super DH.


Not sure what their real reasons were but it might have been because I looked so good in my regulation full face. That’s probably what it was.

I’m on my second TLD Stage and I like the fit, looks, and lightweight. If you get one try to avoid removing the cheek pads any more than you have to. The plastic pegs that snap into the rivets keep ripping out from the foam mounting points. That’s my only complaint. Otherwise it’s a great helmet.


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## carlvonkessler (Dec 23, 2021)

Bell Super DH. I had a slow speed fall almost take out my teeth. I don’t touch dirt without it.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

carlvonkessler said:


> Bell Super DH. I had a slow speed fall almost take out my teeth. I don’t touch dirt without it.


Does it get hot though?


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## Stop Drop N Roll (Nov 10, 2009)

I ride very technical free ride stuff in MA. Bought a Fox Pro Frame last year. And while I love the helmet, the chin bar is wicked short. My chin basically rubs against the chin bar while riding so now I find it annoying. Didn’t realize there were short and long chin bar options? Should have read the fine print. Gonna check out that IXS Trigger now


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> Does it get hot though?


I think they all feel at least a little hotter than a half lid, mostly because there’s material covering your ears and cheeks.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> I think they all feel at least a little hotter than a half lid, mostly because there’s material covering your ears and cheeks.


The Stage reportedly has better ventilation and is very lightweight. It generally doesn't get too hot around here, so maybe it's not too much of an issue.

It will be quite a challenge for me though, because my nose never stops running. I know, it's very disgusting.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Stop Drop N Roll said:


> I ride very technical free ride stuff in MA. Bought a Fox Pro Frame last year. And while I love the helmet, the chin bar is wicked short. My chin basically rubs against the chin bar while riding so now I find it annoying. Didn’t realize there were short and long chin bar options? Should have read the fine print. Gonna check out that IXS Trigger now


That's good to know. I'll have to wear my glasses when ordering and watch out for that.

Thanks!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> The Stage reportedly has better ventilation and is very lightweight. It generally doesn't get too hot around here, so maybe it's not too much of an issue.
> 
> It will be quite a challenge for me though, because my nose never stops running. I know, it's very disgusting.


True on both counts but it still feels warmer than a half lid just by virtue of the extra material. On cooler days I actually appreciate the added coverage from cold. I need to stop if I want to blow my nose or take a drink of water.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Organ said:


> I think they will be the norm eventually, but they still have some stigma today on multi-use trails. Non-riders (and even lots of riders) still consider them something only hoodlums that are bombing trails use.


Do you guys all feel like there’s a stigma to wearing a full face on a trail ride? There’s enough people around here who use them that I don’t really take notice any more. I don’t know what’s going on in other peoples’ head though. I spend a lot of time park riding so maybe I’m just used to seeing it.

Speaking of which, I have a full-duty full face (TLD D4 Carbon) for DH use. The lightweight Stage feels less protective so I don’t use it in the park unless I’m just incorporating the park into a long ride from the resort to home.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Nat said:


> FWIW most guys I’ve known who bought a convertible helmet ended up ditching it and buying a fixed chin bar full face before long.



This was my experience. I actually use the convertible one without the chinbar for very mellow xc type of rides. But 98 percent of my riding is now in an IXS Trigger without a removable chinbar. I never took the bar off and it was just annoying overall on the one that was detachable.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> Do you guys all feel like there’s a stigma to wearing a full face on a trail ride? There’s enough people around here who use them that I don’t really take notice any more. I don’t know what’s going on in other peoples’ head though. I spend a lot of time park riding so maybe I’m just used to seeing it.
> 
> Speaking of which, I have a full-duty full face (TLD D4 Carbon) for DH use. The lightweight Stage feels less protective so I don’t use it in the park unless I’m just incorporating the park into a long ride from the resort to home.


Around here, a "trail ride" usually means a decent climb and a steep and chunky black diamond (or double black) descent. We are blessed with the loamy chunk.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

Curveball said:


> The Stage reportedly has better ventilation and is very lightweight. It generally doesn't get too hot around here, so maybe it's not too much of an issue.
> 
> It will be quite a challenge for me though, because my nose never stops running. I know, it's very disgusting.


I also have the nose problem. As soon as I'm in fresh air and moving a bit.. FWIW I dont notice it as much with a FF as with a half shell. 

Also, I think the IXS Trigger is even lighter and ventilates better than the TLD from experience with both. But the TLD didn't fit around my ears correctly (larger ears) and that may have had something to do with it so YMMV.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> Do you guys all feel like there’s a stigma to wearing a full face on a trail ride? There’s enough people around here who use them that I don’t really take notice any more. I don’t know what’s going on in other peoples’ head though. I spend a lot of time park riding so maybe I’m just used to seeing it.
> 
> Speaking of which, I have a full-duty full face (TLD D4 Carbon) for DH use. The lightweight Stage feels less protective so I don’t use it in the park unless I’m just incorporating the park into a long ride from the resort to home.


We have a new jump trail here in PA so there's more full face helmets then this time last year. To answer your question, nobody cares and there's no stigma. People obsess about themselves, they don't care what others wear or ride. Kinda like photos, how you only look at yourself. You don't care if anyone else looks bad, if you look good in the pic, it's a keeper and you're sharing it. 

Same deal with bikes and helmets. Someone might take a quick glance, but it's immediately forgotten.

I typically wear my half shield when riding local trails. If I'm at a bike park or that new jump trail, it's the full face ... And if I'm wrong, and such a stigma does exist, it wouldn't matter cause I couldn't possibly care any less what other people think.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> Do you guys all feel like there’s a stigma to wearing a full face on a trail ride? There’s enough people around here who use them that I don’t really take notice any more. I don’t know what’s going on in other peoples’ head though. I spend a lot of time park riding so maybe I’m just used to seeing it.
> 
> Speaking of which, I have a full-duty full face (TLD D4 Carbon) for DH use. The lightweight Stage feels less protective so I don’t use it in the park unless I’m just incorporating the park into a long ride from the resort to home.


NAT I know you've shared before, but can't remember ... Where and what kinda trails do you typically ride?


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

I feel like there’s a bit of a stigma against full face helmets here in SLO, where most of our terrain is gnarly loose chunk with tons of exposure. Makes no sense.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Thanks guys. I ordered a pair of TLD Stages for my son and I.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Curveball said:


> Thanks guys. I ordered a pair of TLD Stages for my son and I.


Smart choice. You'll love it. The camo is my favorite one. That's what my son has. I have the blue/black. He didn't want the same color scheme as me, which is understandable for a teenager, and it wasn't a battle worth fighting!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

2021Mach6 said:


> NAT I know you've shared before, but can't remember ... Where and what kinda trails do you typically ride?


During summer when the bike parks are open I ride mostly DH. I live in Bend, OR and there's a park about half an hour away (Mt. Bachelor) plus I'm within a 1 day drive of at least a dozen other parks. I travel quite a bit during prime season. When the parks aren't open I opt for the more aggressive all-mountain type terrain. Jumps, drops, black diamond to double diamond terrain is my jam. I don't do much xc except in shoulder season when things are just ramping up or winding down. I don't do any road, gravel, or BMX riding. I used to do trials a million years ago.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Curveball said:


> I've been considering replacing my half-lid helmet with a convertible full-face one. I'd also replace my son's too. But, I've been riding over 35 years and never had a crash where a full-face would make any difference. And they're a bit expensive. I know, not as expensive as dental work...
> 
> Most of my riding is slower speed steep tech in the PNW. However, we typically visit bike parks on our family vacations and a new park is in development near me.
> 
> ...


I try not to land on my face … but just in case I change my mind, I started riding a convertible full face three years ago.

I went through a few Bell 2R/3R, tried a dedicated full face (hot!), picked up a Bell Super Air summer 2021 (in Hood River) and I’m satisfied.

Just a tip: leave the face mask on, once you take it off it doesn’t work as well 😆

When it’s hot and I’m climbing a ways, I strap the helmet to my pack and put on a boony cap 👍


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Curveball said:


> Thanks guys. I ordered a pair of TLD Stages for my son and I.


Gonna be too hot to ride with a TLD on climbs … get yourself a couple boony caps!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Gonna be too hot to ride with a TLD on climbs … get yourself a couple boony caps!
> View attachment 1965736


Probably 90% of our rides are in deep forest. It’s typically not that hot here. Sometimes I do strap my helmet on the pack for a hot climb. I don’t wear anything on my head when I do that.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> During summer when the bike parks are open I ride mostly DH. I live in Bend, OR and there's a park about half an hour away (Mt. Bachelor) plus I'm within a 1 day drive of at least a dozen other parks. I travel quite a bit during prime season. When the parks aren't open I opt for the more aggressive all-mountain type terrain. Jumps, drops, black diamond to double diamond terrain is my jam. I don't do much xc except in shoulder season when things are just ramping up or winding down. I don't do any road, gravel, or BMX riding. I used to do trials a million years ago.


Oh nice! Maybe I didn't know that... I do the same stuff. My wife thinks I'm insane cause sometimes I'll take a day trip to Killington which is a 12 hour round trip. I don't mind driving though. I leave at 4am and I'm on the lifts at 10, home by midnight. Wish we had a closer park, but shockingly they built an insane jump trail (Whistler worthy) about 40 minutes from me that me and my friends take turns shuttling on. Good alternative and place to practice in the off-season. 

Only trail I haven't ridden yet is Ft Hill at Thunder. It's the East Coast's equivalent to Crabapple or Banana Peel at Trestle. Scary stuff, but hopefully I'll work up the courage to hit it this year. Would love to make my way up to the PNW one of these days!!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

2021Mach6 said:


> Oh nice! Maybe I didn't know that... I do the same stuff. My wife thinks I'm insane cause sometimes I'll take a day trip to Killington which is a 12 hour round trip. I don't mind driving though. I leave at 4am and I'm on the lifts at 10, home by midnight. Wish we had a closer park, but shockingly they built an insane jump trail (Whistler worthy) about 40 minutes from me that me and my friends take turns shuttling on. Good alternative and place to practice in the off-season.
> 
> Only trail I haven't ridden yet is Ft Hill at Thunder. It's the East Coast's equivalent to Crabapple or Banana Peel at Trestle. Scary stuff, but hopefully I'll work up the courage to hit it this year. Would love to make my way up to the PNW one of these days!!


We lost our only bike park a couple of years ago. It was a super fun place with some of my favorite tech trails. Fortunately, there's a new one under construction that's even closer that will open this summer.

Then again, I'm five hours from Whistler.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Curveball said:


> We lost our only bike park a couple of years ago. It was a super fun place with some of my favorite tech trails. Fortunately, there's a new one under construction that's even closer that will open this summer.
> 
> Then again, I'm five hours from Whistler.


We had a place called Launch that changed ownership in 2015 and closed their bike park. It's a shame cause DH really took off the last few years. Blue Mountain in the Poconos is pretty much unrideable cause it's nothing but rocks, so it was one and done for me. You'd think being between NYC and Philly, with about 50 million people in driving distance, they'd put some resources into it, but nope. 

Closest park is Mountain Creek in NJ, but Thunder in MA and Killington in VT are SO much better and I try making a long weekend outta it. 

Talk about first world problems!!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> We lost our only bike park a couple of years ago. It was a super fun place with some of my favorite tech trails. Fortunately, there's a new one under construction that's even closer that will open this summer.
> 
> Then again, I'm five hours from Whistler.


What scares me a bit is that Stevens Pass and Whistler are both owned by Vail, and it's questionable how much they value mountain biking. In addition to closing Stevens Pass, they shut down the Canyons bike park, and reduced hours at Northstar. Hopefully they see that Whistler bike park is the benchmark and stay dedicated to keeping it running.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> What scares me a bit is that Stevens Pass and Whistler are both owned by Vail, and it's questionable how much they value mountain biking. In addition to closing Stevens Pass, they shut down the Canyons bike park, and reduced hours at Northstar. Hopefully they see that Whistler bike park is the benchmark and stay dedicated to keeping it running.


It’s my understanding that Vail is run by risk-averse lawyers. Apparently, the Canadian tort laws are such that they have practically no risk exposure there. There was a big lawsuit against Whistler a while back and the plaintiff decisively lost.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> What scares me a bit is that Stevens Pass and Whistler are both owned by Vail, and it's questionable how much they value mountain biking. In addition to closing Stevens Pass, they shut down the Canyons bike park, and reduced hours at Northstar. Hopefully they see that Whistler bike park is the benchmark and stay dedicated to keeping it running.


Highly doubtful. They've been putting money into their own bike park, and I read recently their busiest month of the entire year is July, so business is booming there. Haven't been to Whistler, but I assume that's the case there too. Stephen's Pass was having trouble operating and that was a financial issue. I'm not privy to the finances, but I'd have to assume both Vail, and especially Whistler would be bringing in a good chunk of revenue to the entire resort. 

Killington recently put $53 mil into their bike park, so these places gotta be making money. And it's not just the bike park, you head up with another family or something, you and your friend hit up the bike park, the kids are ziplining and the girls are sipping on their $14 margaritas. Throw in lunch, lodging, restaurants, etc which granted, aren't all going down at the actual resort, but still, it's gotta be a substantial revenue stream with ancillary benefits. Like I haven't been skiing in 20+ years, but we went to Killington a couple weeks ago. If it weren't for the bike park that wouldn't have happened. And if I go skiing out West, it'll most likely be Whistler or Mammoth, cause of their bike parks. 

And there'd be riots if they tried closing Whistler.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> What scares me a bit is that Stevens Pass and Whistler are both owned by Vail, and it's questionable how much they value mountain biking. In addition to closing Stevens Pass, they shut down the Canyons bike park, and reduced hours at Northstar. Hopefully they see that Whistler bike park is the benchmark and stay dedicated to keeping it running.


Looking at it now ... Stephen's Pass Bike Park looked pretty sick. I'd be gutted if I rode there. What's Whistler your closest park now? I wonder how much Stephens proximity to Whistler had to do with that decision. 

Then they talk about reevaluating next year? You know that ain't happening. Bastards.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Lol they aren’t about to shut Whistler Bike Park down. It’s an institution that makes a ton of $$$


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

norcalbike said:


> Lol they aren’t about to shut Whistler Bike Park down. It’s an institution that makes a ton of $$$


It's pretty much the mountain biking equivalent to Mecca ... Definitely gotta make the pilgrimage one of these days. It's a trip that wouldn't include the wives though, a difficult task for me and the boys to pull off!


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

2021Mach6 said:


> Looking at it now ... Stephen's Pass Bike Park looked pretty sick. I'd be gutted if I rode there. What's Whistler your closest park now? I wonder how much Stephens proximity to Whistler had to do with that decision.
> 
> Then they talk about reevaluating next year? You know that ain't happening. Bastards.


Yeah, we are all ready between the lines there… while technically stevens pass might open again… I’m not betting on it.

Silver mountain in north western Idaho is about the same distance away as Whistler for most of us up here. Also about 5-6hrs away 

I started mountain biking the last year that stevens was open, and only hit it once. I’m excited to see how Snoqualmie is when it opens, and might consider doing a seasons pass to it even though it’s a bit farther away for me than stevens is. I’d love to get some easy reps in this summer, especially for jumping (my weak point).


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## Chet Bango (May 19, 2004)

I wear a full-face Fox Proframe on everything except the flattest easiest rides. I barely notice it, other than having to take off my glasses before taking it on or off. I do use a camelbak, so drinking isnt an issue. On cold days it keeps me warmer, on hot days it puts more of my face in shade. Overall I handle heat fairly well and am conditioned to working in hot climates though. YMMV. I does impact my peripheral vision a bit, but not much.


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## Chet Bango (May 19, 2004)

Curveball said:


> Interesting. Do you know why?
> 
> I’m considering the Bell AirR, the TLD Stage, and maybe the Bell Super DH.


My son has a convertible helmet. He leaves it on because the hassle of taking it on and off is more than the insignificant downside of riding with it on all the time. It is really no big deal to ride with it on.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

2021Mach6 said:


> Highly doubtful. They've been putting money into their own bike park, and I read recently their busiest month of the entire year is July, so business is booming there. Haven't been to Whistler, but I assume that's the case there too. Stephen's Pass was having trouble operating and that was a financial issue. I'm not privy to the finances, but I'd have to assume both Vail, and especially Whistler would be bringing in a good chunk of revenue to the entire resort.
> 
> Killington recently put $53 mil into their bike park, so these places gotta be making money. And it's not just the bike park, you head up with another family or something, you and your friend hit up the bike park, the kids are ziplining and the girls are sipping on their $14 margaritas. Throw in lunch, lodging, restaurants, etc which granted, aren't all going down at the actual resort, but still, it's gotta be a substantial revenue stream with ancillary benefits. Like I haven't been skiing in 20+ years, but we went to Killington a couple weeks ago. If it weren't for the bike park that wouldn't have happened. And if I go skiing out West, it'll most likely be Whistler or Mammoth, cause of their bike parks.
> 
> And there'd be riots if they tried closing Whistler.


I wonder if closing Steven’s Pass also had to do with the proximity to Whistler, like trying to drive traffic up there?

In summertime the Whistler village is as busy as it is in winter. The volume of tourism is impressive, and only a portion of that volume is their for biking. I like hearing all of the different languages while walking around.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

ocnLogan said:


> Yeah, we are all ready between the lines there… while technically stevens pass might open again… I’m not betting on it.
> 
> Silver mountain in north western Idaho is about the same distance away as Whistler for most of us up here. Also about 5-6hrs away
> 
> I started mountain biking the last year that stevens was open, and only hit it once. I’m excited to see how Snoqualmie is when it opens, and might consider doing a seasons pass to it even though it’s a bit farther away for me than stevens is. I’d love to get some easy reps in this summer, especially for jumping (my weak point).


Looking now... Most recent thing I'm seeing on Snoqualmie is from 2021. When's that supposed to open, and is Gravity Logic doing any of the work?

Kinda shocked how few lift assisted bike parks there are compared to BC. I always thought you were littered with them. Galbraith and Duthie Hill look pretty sick at least ... Are a lotta people getting e-bikes out there for the climbs?


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> I wonder if closing Steven’s Pass also had to do with the proximity to Whistler, like trying to drive traffic up there?
> 
> In summertime the Whistler village is as busy as it is in winter. The volume of tourism is impressive, and only a portion of that volume is their for biking. I like hearing all of the different languages while walking around.


Interesting. So there's a lot to do for non-riders? Me and a couple friends have been talking about going, but figured there wouldn't be much for the wives to do for a full week. Not that they need to be stimulated or entertained 24/7, but they're not gonna ride and I'd just assumed they'd be bored.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

2021Mach6 said:


> Looking now... Most recent thing I'm seeing on Snoqualmie is from 2021. When's that supposed to open, and is Gravity Logic doing any of the work?
> 
> Kinda shocked how few lift assisted bike parks there are compared to BC. I always thought you were littered with them. Galbraith and Duthie Hill look pretty sick at least ... Are a lotta people getting e-bikes out there for the climbs?


I was in a meeting with our local trail association in November, and they were giving updates on the Snoqualmie pass situation. Apparently most of the trails are done, and they are hoping for a 2022 opening day. Guess we will see.

At The moment, ebikes are expressly forbidden on any/all mountain biking trails here. The only place I’m aware they are legal is north mountain in darrington. That doesn’t prevent some people from riding them, but they are definitely not the majority, at least when/where I go out riding at least.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

2021Mach6 said:


> What's Whistler your closest park now?


Bachelor is my home resort but there’s also Ski Bowl and Timberline a couple of hours away, easy for a day trip. Timberline is geared towards families and beginner-intermediates though.

I often go to Silver mountain and Tamarack, each about 7 hours away in Idaho. Brundage and Bogus Basin are also in Idaho and are of similar distance but I haven't ridden at either one of those parks yet.

Whitefish, Big Sky, Grand Targhee, Jackson Hole are all also within easy reach.

Deer Valley is an easy 10 hour drive.

Along with Whistler I've been to Fernie and hope to visit more of the British Columbia bike parks in the next year or two.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

norcalbike said:


> Lol they aren’t about to shut Whistler Bike Park down. It’s an institution that makes a ton of $$$


They'd be nuts to shut it down but at least in the skiing realm Vail has built a reputation for making changes that favor the shareholders at the expense of the visitor experience, and skiing is their primary market. 

What I'm waiting/hoping to see is if ski resorts start converting their operations more to summer activities (i.e., biking) since winters are getting shorter.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

2021Mach6 said:


> Interesting. So there's a lot to do for non-riders? Me and a couple friends have been talking about going, but figured there wouldn't be much for the wives to do for a full week. Not that they need to be stimulated or entertained 24/7, but they're not gonna ride and I'd just assumed they'd be bored.


There's a lot to do for non-bikers, particularly if they're at all outdoorsy and adventurous. Of all the bike parks I've visited, Whistler would be the one that I'd take non-biking family to. Lots of resorts are pretty quiet in the summer but not this one.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Nat said:


> Bachelor is my home resort but there’s also Ski Bowl and Timberline a couple of hours away, easy for a day trip. Timberline is geared towards families and beginner-intermediates though.
> 
> I often go to Silver mountain and Tamarack, each about 7 hours away in Idaho. Brundage and Bogus Basin are also in Idaho and are of similar distance but I haven't ridden at either one of those parks yet.
> 
> ...


It's funny cause I look on Google Maps and see Washington, and I'm like, oh Whistler is right there, Idaho next door, they got like 10 bike parks within striking distance ... Then you zoom out and your realize how massive it is out there! I can hit Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Maryland by the time you cross over a second border!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Chet Bango said:


> I wear a full-face Fox Proframe on everything except the flattest easiest rides. I barely notice it, other than having to take off my glasses before taking it on or off. I do use a camelbak, so drinking isnt an issue. On cold days it keeps me warmer, on hot days it puts more of my face in shade. Overall I handle heat fairly well and am conditioned to working in hot climates though. YMMV. I does impact my peripheral vision a bit, but not much.


I hate to tell you this, but this is a thread about bike parks. 😜


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

2021Mach6 said:


> Looking now... Most recent thing I'm seeing on Snoqualmie is from 2021. When's that supposed to open, and is Gravity Logic doing any of the work?
> 
> Kinda shocked how few lift assisted bike parks there are compared to BC. I always thought you were littered with them. Galbraith and Duthie Hill look pretty sick at least ... Are a lotta people getting e-bikes out there for the climbs?


Not a whole lot of e-bikes here. They aren’t legal on most trails. We just pedal up except for a few shuttle areas. Check out North Mountain. That place is the real deal. 

Snoqualmie should open this summer. They built trails on the private property part of it and are waiting for permits on the USFS part.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> They'd be nuts to shut it down but at least in the skiing realm Vail has built a reputation for making changes that favor the shareholders at the expense of the visitor experience, and skiing is their primary market.
> 
> What I'm waiting/hoping to see is if ski resorts start converting their operations more to summer activities (i.e., biking) since winters are getting shorter.


Stevens is so understaffed for skiing this winter, there are only a couple of lifts open. People are pissed off big time.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Curveball said:


> Snoqualmie should open this summer. They built trails on the private property part of it and are waiting for permits on the USFS part.


Afaik, the permits were granted in late fall, and building was underway on USFS land as of the meeting I attended in late Nov. The was why they were pretty optimistic for a 2022 opening iirc.

I could be way wrong though. But that’s what my memory seems to think .


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> There's a lot to do for non-bikers, particularly if they're at all outdoorsy and adventurous. Of all the bike parks I've visited, Whistler would be the one that I'd take non-biking family to. Lots of resorts are pretty quiet in the summer but not this one.


For sure. My wife had a great time there. We did an ATV tour, hikes, great food, mountain slider, etc.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> Afaik, the permits were granted in late fall, and building was underway on USFS land as of the meeting I attended in late Nov. The was why they were pretty optimistic for a 2022 opening iirc.
> 
> I could be way wrong though. But that’s what my memory seems to think .


It came up at the annual Evergreen meeting. Yeah, I think it’s all happening now.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> Stevens is so understaffed for skiing this winter, there are only a couple of lifts open. People are pissed off big time.


I read about that. I've been reading about how that's going on at their other resorts too.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

2021Mach6 said:


> It's funny cause I look on Google Maps and see Washington, and I'm like, oh Whistler is right there, Idaho next door, they got like 10 bike parks within striking distance ... Then you zoom out and your realize how massive it is out there! I can hit Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware and Maryland by the time you cross over a second border!


Fortunately most of the drives are through scenic areas so you get to enjoy the landscape along the way. Not southern Idaho though. It's barren desert from Boise to Ogden. At least the speed limit is 85mph.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> Fortunately most of the drives are through scenic areas so you get to enjoy the landscape along the way. Not southern Idaho though. It's barren desert from Boise to Ogden. At least the speed limit is 85mph.


I did that drive towing my travel trailer. No going 85 with it. Yeah that was very boring. But Park City was a blast.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Curveball said:


> I've been considering replacing my half-lid helmet with a convertible full-face one. I'd also replace my son's too. But, I've been riding over 35 years and never had a crash where a full-face would make any difference. And they're a bit expensive. I know, not as expensive as dental work...
> 
> Most of my riding is slower speed steep tech in the PNW. However, we typically visit bike parks on our family vacations and a new park is in development near me.
> 
> ...


I face-planted pretty good a while back into some brushy terrain, I was very glad I had the chin bar on my Bell 3R. I don't know if it prevented "real" damage to my face, but it definitely kept out the sticks and weeds. 

I very much like having a convertible helmet- I take the chinbar and strap it to my hydration pack pretty much anytime I plan on riding a new trail system that as anything black-diamond rated. I probably wear it 50% of the time.

If you're still looking for recommendations on a helmet, I like my Super 3R, but both my buddies have Super Air R's and it's a clearly superior helmet. I've also got my eye on a Giro Switchblade (even with it's crazy looks) because I have a very long oval egg-shaped head and my old Giro Montaro fit like a glove. I feel like the Bell is way more 'round' shaped.


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## carlvonkessler (Dec 23, 2021)

Curveball said:


> Does it get hot though?


It’s pretty well ventilated. Compared to the POC or other FF convertibles I think its on the more ventilated side.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Well it looks like my bro in law wants to buy my KTM 450. I will probably wear my Alpinestars MX helmets when I tackle challenging trails on my bike. They feel very lightweight and has plenty of protection. Plus I can be "that guy" who wears dirt bike gear w/ MTB shoes while pedaling a bike.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Curveball said:


> Interesting. Do you know why?
> 
> I’m considering the Bell AirR, the TLD Stage, and maybe the Bell Super DH.


I went the opposite direction. Hated the TLD stage and Fox Proframe. I use a full on DH helmet for downhill/DJ/pump track, and the replacable chinbar (super dh) for anything requiring pedaling uphill.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Battery said:


> Well it looks like my bro in law wants to buy my KTM 450. I will probably wear my Alpinestars MX helmets when I tackle challenging trails on my bike. They feel very lightweight and has plenty of protection. Plus I can be "that guy" who wears dirt bike gear w/ MTB shoes while pedaling a bike.


Good luck bending your ankles with those boots. I suspect you will not like them, that's far too restrictive footwear for biking.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Good luck bending your ankles with those boots. I suspect you will not like them, that's far too restrictive footwear for biking.


I'm not wearing dirt bike boots on a mountain bike. You should read what I posted. I'll be "that guy" who wears dirt bike gear w/ MTB shoes while pedaling a bike. I actually wear my Fly Racing Patrol tuck in pants while riding my MTB and it works pretty good for winter weather!


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## Premrl77 (11 mo ago)

I also ride with my fullface, but when it's to hot I can't pedal in it. Does anyone have any recommendations where to put it, but i don't use a backpack


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

Premrl77 said:


> I also ride with my fullface, but when it's to hot I can't pedal in it. Does anyone have any recommendations where to put it, but i don't use a backpack


No affiliation with this company but this seems like a good option








The Haf-Clip & Straps - Nylon PA12


$10 Off While Supplies Last Included: The Haf-Clip in Nylon PA12 12" Strap (perfect for helmets or chinbars) 18" Strap (great for anything)



thehafclip.com


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I just bought a Leatt DBX 4 enduro helmet. I had been going back and forth between that and a TLD Stage, but decided on the DBX for the versatility. 

I have a TLD carbon D3 that I’ll still wear for days riding park, but I work a lot of enduro races and the traditional DH helmet is a pain at some of the parks we visit. Some transfers and course setting involves short descents mixed in with hike-a-bike and the lighter, more ventilated helmet will be very welcome. I’ll try it on my home trails and see if I prefer it over my A2, and whether I use the chinbar very much on those trails.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Nat said:


> I read about that. I've been reading about how that's going on at their other resorts too.


I just found out that Stevens will be open for biking this summer. That’s great news because Snoqualmie probably won’t open until late in the season.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

evasive said:


> I just bought a Leatt DBX 4 enduro helmet. I had been going back and forth between that and a TLD Stage, but decided on the DBX for the versatility.
> 
> I have a TLD carbon D3 that I’ll still wear for days riding park, but I work a lot of enduro races and the traditional DH helmet is a pain at some of the parks we visit. Some transfers and course setting involves short descents mixed in with hike-a-bike and the lighter, more ventilated helmet will be very welcome. I’ll try it on my home trails and see if I prefer it over my A2, and whether I use the chinbar very much on those trails.


I hate to tell you this, but this is a thread about PNW bike parks. You should maybe move your helmet discussion to wheels and tires. 😝


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Curveball said:


> I just found out that Stevens will be open for biking this summer. That’s great news because Snoqualmie probably won’t open until late in the season.


Wait, what?

This is the first I’m hearing of this.

Time to start searching!


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> Wait, what?
> 
> This is the first I’m hearing of this.
> 
> Time to start searching!


My son saw it on Instagram.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> I just found out that Stevens will be open for biking this summer. That’s great news because Snoqualmie probably won’t open until late in the season.


Okay then! It's going on my summer travel itinerary!


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