# Why do dirt jumpers / street guys ride with their seats so raked?



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

....just why?


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

Illl also add to the question, why do some of them wear skinny jeans, emo haircuts, and make em selves look like complete wankers? And why don't these people wear helmets?
(note, I'm not saying everyone in this riding catagory are like this, only some are)


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I am afraid that is the latest trend. Emo anal.


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## kremecheze (Nov 21, 2009)

well living in nyc i see most trends starting before they reach the world,the skinny jeez thing came about because most bmx'ers were getting they're jeans caught in the chain so they just started wearing smaller jeans,makes a lot of sense,this is the same reason that i only ride with shorts on,the emo hair just came from most of them being poor and not caring about getting a haircut,then just throwing a hat over it.this is what makes there hair look like they just took a helmet off or something,this is also the look that every young school kid bmx'er or not is going for,little do they know that most trends start from people who dont care about fashion like bmx'ers,bboys,skaters,and things like that.it will phase itself out soon,but the bmx'ers will still rock it cuz its easier for them to ride with skinny jeans,and theyve been doin it for as long as i can remmeber


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## zerossix (Jul 25, 2004)

Your pelvis rotates backwards when you crouched like that on a small seat. It ends up sitting flush, like a 'normal' bike saddle would, on your sit bones.

And skinny jeans are just in, in general. Has nothing to do with the chain, just an added bonus. Way better than the super baggy trend that we just got through.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

It also saves on clothes purchasing. All those 90 lb kids can raid their sisters closet and borrow their pants. And their panties....


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

yeah I like the trend for skinny jeans


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

they wear skinny girl jeans because they are wanker loving ****'s. Pants getting caught in the chain ring is just a piss poor excuse for dressing like a complete idiot/***. In the late 90's fat baggy ****** looking pants were all the craze and all the little BMX butt nuts rocked baggy pants that were ripped up on the right leg. 

I have no idea why the seats get pointed like they do. Maybe it is for a specific purpose like gettingit between your legs to control the bike in the air. Maybe it is to look like the fruit cake that started wearing girl pants, wears make-up and uses a hair straightener. I really don't know. 

I'm waiting for chubby, balding and stupid to come into style so I fit in better.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

bunch of old wankers,you sound like your parents complaining about beatle haircuts.


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## mountains (Apr 10, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> yeah I like the trend for skinny jeans


Yeah, but substitute a dude in those jeans and things go from boner to curled up in the fetal position crying in terror real fast.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

emo guys prefer the boner


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

I dont do the whole skinny jeans thing. I have a nylon band with velcro to keep my regular sized pants out of the chainring


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## chinkerjuarez (Apr 23, 2007)

I do it because with the short stem on my DJ bike it gives more room in the cockpit and doesn't feel as cramped. It is also easier for me to pinch the seat with my legs because I find myself more over the back tire on things like manuals and bunny hops. Oh and I don't wear skinny jeans. Thought I needed to add that because it seems that people are really stuck on that right now.


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## pro (Oct 7, 2007)

Haha, I fit pretty much all of those stereotypes. Why do I wear tight pants? They're alot more comfortable than my stiff guy pants. It hurts less when you fall, they dont get caught in your chain, and they're warmer because its just like wearing a base layer. Why are the seats like that? You never actually sit on your seat. It's alot more comfortable to sit on the back of your seat and the rear tire, or even your TT. 

I like my hair short, but it's kinda long and getting annoying. Solution? Wear a hat. I dont always have the time/money for a haircut.


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## mountains (Apr 10, 2009)

boogenman said:


> emo guys prefer the boner


99.99% of them are virgins and don't know what they prefer. They just wanna, like, cuddle and listen to the Smiths, man.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

why do you emo/trendy/hipster/queers wear tight fitting purple colored lady pants flannel shirts and ghay knit hats in the summer?


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## 08nwsula (Oct 19, 2005)

when you land on a steep transition the seat will actually be level and it's easier to stay on the bike.


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## Monk_Knight (Aug 1, 2008)

> little do they know that most trends start from people who dont care about fashion like bmx'ers,bboys,skaters,and things like that


Wow, you just named off pretty much all the groups that are absolutely obsessed with their image and won't even want to talk to someone who isn't dressed right.


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## Ryan97 (May 12, 2008)

Ever catch your shorts on the back edge of your seat coming back from a tuck? Its really bad.

Why are so many of the posters to this thread being close minded *******s? You guys need to chill out...


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## ryan_daugherty (Oct 8, 2006)

I thought having your seat raked back made it easier for grabbing your saddled with like super seaters etc, right? 

Who cares about skinny jeans.. i say let people wear what they want... doesn't bother me and we don't need to rag on anyone for wearing what they like. cool?


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## jawdrop on hardtail (Dec 6, 2007)

You guys are critiquing other guys' clothes and calling them queers? Am I the only person who sees the hypocrisy?

As for the seats, they're slammed so damn low (sometimes too low to pedal) that it just feels right being raised above the top tube angle. It just feels natural coasting when your seat is at that level. Some people (usually young kids) take it too far though, I will agree with that.


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## Seanbike (Mar 23, 2004)

mountains said:


> 99.99% of them are virgins and don't know what they prefer. They just wanna, like, cuddle and listen to the Smiths, man.


These young shits wouldn't know who the Smiths are if Morrissey kicked them in their skinny jeans, they're probably listening to Fall Out Boy or that heart a gram suck band.


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## dropmachine.com (Apr 8, 2004)

Whats worse, a bunch of kids wearing tight jeans and sporting funny haircuts, or a bunch of sport class racers spending hundreds of dollars on the latest TLD pyjama kits with matching helmets trying to be all "moto?"


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## carrot_top (Aug 22, 2007)

Trends will always be around. Its not like there werent some pretty weird ones back then too (think cross dressing rock bands, parachute pants, neon (which seems to be coming back too))....and while some people can come up with reasons explaining some of these trends, i cant seem to find any practicality in this......


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Whats worse, all the skinny jean seat pointing up kids, or that they're all better then you are. 

But seriously, who gives a fyck.


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## chewymilk99 (Nov 26, 2008)

I hate to admit how old I am here (36) If I remember around the late 90's rolling tricks (manuals and nose wheelies) and tailwhips were all the rage.
The seat being low does help with the manual and the tailwhip. And it being slanted that far down does really help with nose wheelies.
Also when you do land from high-ish are (jump, transisition, to flat, etc) your butt will end up moving the seat down there anyway. So you either bent the seat strip the pivots bend the seatpost or crack the frame.

And I have no idea when my fellow riders went from looking like a bunch of badasses who just got kicked out of a suicidal tendencies show. To a bunch of emo single speed wana-bees.
Sad man. Pray or them.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I also have a problem with the pajama kits too! They are retarded just like the emo girl pants. 
I'm straight from the 90's as well so obviously Palmer was/is one of my MTB icons and when he came back this year I was really excited to see him back in the scene. Then I saw his goofball pajama outfit at Sol Vista, what a shame. I still like the guy, just think he looked stupid, just like emo kids. 

All of you that are hating on me becasue I make fun of emo queers and goofball pajama/clown suits can continue to do so, I really don't care


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## Amazing Larry104 (Aug 19, 2005)

if its for practical purposes, then cool.
if its for fashion, then im sure it because they want to attract the type of girls they think look good, not to attract old chodes who think they are queers
in fact, im sure they look middle aged people whith their tucked in shirts and high pants and think they look queer


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I'm down with all girls no matter what they wear fashion or function. Only requirement I have for the ladies is to fall within the guidelines of my height to weight ration chart. :thumbsup:


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

the seat angle thing,I've heard a number of the reasons people have already stated,but befor that i always thought it had something to do with having the seat level when the bike is on the landing ramp of a double set.If things havn't gone so well and you feet are no longer on the pedals but still on either side of the bike...


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## schoolisbad1 (Dec 17, 2004)

its because when you get a itchy anus, you cant scratch it with such tight pants, so you sit on the top tube and slide back as hard as you can. the only way to get to it


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

And the droopy-drawer freeriders who cant either purchase a belt or pants w the correct waist size are any better?

Whatever, Fashion is retarded, this is MTBR - maybe we should post this over on GQ?


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## Amazing Larry104 (Aug 19, 2005)

boogenman said:


> I'm down with all girls no matter what they wear fashion or function. Only requirement I have for the ladies is to fall within the guidelines of my height to weight ration chart. :thumbsup:


yea man thats why you have to wear their jeans.... If you try them on and theyre not tight, then shes no good (fattie)


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

carrot_top said:


> Trends will always be around. Its not like there werent some pretty weird ones back then too (think cross dressing rock bands, parachute pants, neon (which seems to be coming back too))....and while some people can come up with reasons explaining some of these trends, i cant seem to find any practicality in this......


Twisted Sister man....they rocked!



Way to go too far with something. Dee Snyder actually had his teeth filed down to sharp points. I'm betting he'll regret that at some point.


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## d.n.s (Jan 18, 2008)

you mean looks like this?:




They don't really need helmets cause their heads are from titanium or something


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

whats next? guys wearing bras? panties? giving eachother handjobs in the school bathroom in the name of a "trend"? "what do you care if i give guys handjobs! you're just old and dont get it!" 

its gonna happen! :lol:


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

that was really cool,fn hardcore, the helmet nazi's are gonna have kittens, soft fuzzy declawed neutered kittens


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

hhmm, funny, that somehow never even occured to me.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

i think this thread brought out all the ignorance mtbr has to offer.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

"ignorance" means someone is uneducated on a topic or idea.. do you have some sort of insightful explanation for tight jeans and setting up your bike in a trendy way?

or do you just wear your sisters pants and wanted to say ignorant?


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## ISN (Feb 19, 2007)

One Pivot said:


> "ignorance" means someone is uneducated on a topic or idea.. do you have some sort of insightful explanation for tight jeans and setting up your bike in a trendy way?
> 
> or do you just wear your sisters pants and wanted to say ignorant?


for such a macho guy you certainly worry a lot about what other dudes are wearing, not to mention your intimate knowledge of gay sexuality.

just saying... i think you might have some repression going on or something.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

did you take offense? is this a serious issue/concern for you and you felt the need to take a stand and put your foot down? 

im not giving you a handy dude!

anyone whos taken a human development class gets it. kids dont find their identity until later in life, a large reason why everyone looks the same in highschool and sometimes into college before they come into their own. its just a part of growing up, people look back and realize themselves it was kinda lame. i had plenty of baggy pants with chainring cuts on them too. 

in short, its really not even a topic to be taken seriously, nor will you change adolescent development away from following trends.. might as well have fun with it. its just exceptionally easy to make fun of the girl pants trend  still not giving you a handy though.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

One Pivot said:


> "ignorance" means someone is uneducated on a topic or idea.. do you have some sort of insightful explanation for tight jeans and setting up your bike in a trendy way?
> 
> or do you just wear your sisters pants and wanted to say ignorant?


but you have no knowledge on this topic. sure some guys wear girl pants but the vast majority of these "emo ****" wear tight pants made for men. but it doesnt matter what i say, keep on hating if you want. i'll sit here in my tight jeans and laugh at all the idiots who obsess over what over people wear.


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## karpiel666 (Jan 7, 2005)

I remember before it was a trend, one of my friends came to school in tight girls pants. He told me he spent the night at his girlfriends hous, his were dirty and they fit him.

He was one of those skinny ass guys.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

b-kul said:


> but you have no knowledge on this topic. sure some guys wear girl pants but the vast majority of these "emo ****" wear tight pants made for men.


Changing the lable from "girls" to "Mens" does not mean anything.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

karpiel666 said:


> I remember before it was a trend, one of my friends came to school in tight girls pants. He told me he spent the night at his girlfriends hous, his were dirty and they fit him.
> 
> He was one of those skinny ass guys.


Zubaz pants are coming back:thumbsup:


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## defconfour (Sep 30, 2004)

I've been around bmx since the 80's. I think it came from the crappy seat guts always slipping - this is before pivot post and even the Thomson style Primos. I know on my old Kashimax it would strip and usually ended up with the nose of the seat a little up from landing on it.

It also gives a little more room for stuff like turndowns, cans and pitching the seat. And helps so you don't get caught behind the seat when buzzing your butt on the rear tire when nosed down.

And I hate to say it, but it looks so much better - it gives a "line" from the seat to the bars. I slammed the seat on my sussy bike today for a quickie jump and it just looked horirble.


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

Lol, I love the fact that you guys are insulting people just because of the clothes they wear. And using virgin as an insult... Seriously?

Personally I don't wear tight jeans and a beenie, but i have no problem if other people want to.

Seat wise I've always understood that because it's so low it's comfier tilted back, and also makes tricks easier from the point of view of landing and grabs.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

I would rock those zubaz pants.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

i have like 6 pair of levis 514 slim fit and they are not skinny jeans but they still keep out of my chainring (also a bash guard on your drive side crank helps:thumbsup: )


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

William42 said:


> I would rock those zubaz pants.


Hellz yes! I had a few pairs back in the 80's-90's

I asked for a pair for x-mas $29 on the site.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

Dheorl said:


> Lol, I love the fact that you guys are insulting people just because of the clothes they wear. And using virgin as an insult... Seriously?


haha I love it too. If you look ridiculous because you dress like an idiot you deserve to be made fun of. 

I must have slipped right past the virgin insult but I will also make fun of that. Getting your groove on with the ladies is the BEST! I started at a young age but I sure wish I did more fuzzy flounder fishing before I got married. When it comes to notches in the belt you can never have too many


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## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

I've got a better question.
Why do people bother riding mtb's on the street anyway. Havn't they seen at least one bmx video. Even the tamest pro level bmx street riding makes the stuff top level street mtb riders are doing look pretty damn weak.

Ride however you like if your having fun, just don't put that weak shiz in videos, its pathetic!

And dj'ers, yes you're marginally more impressive, but if you're riding dj's with any kind of suspension, you better be hitting stuff that requires it, as in huge.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

Don't even get me started on wearing lycra/spandex when you trail ride. Now that is gay, stupid and gay. 
:nono:


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## jawdrop on hardtail (Dec 6, 2007)




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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

Teague said:


> I've got a better question.
> Why do people bother riding mtb's on the street anyway. Havn't they seen at least one bmx video. Even the tamest pro level bmx street riding makes the stuff top level street mtb riders are doing look pretty damn weak.
> 
> Ride however you like if your having fun, just don't put that weak shiz in videos, its pathetic!


:skep:


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## Calidownhiller (May 24, 2008)

jawdrop on hardtail said:


>


...and we all know how this turned out. The damn skin suit constricted his nutsack so much he couldn't hold on to the bike anymore.:nono:


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

i guess i'm getting old, i think the kids are looking mighty goofy these days. i'm pretty sure thats what they thought of me when i was younger...

but lol, that one video of macaskill is like one billion times cooler than all street bmx vids put together.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

Calidownhiller said:


> ...and we all know how this turned out. The damn skin suit constricted his nutsack so much he couldn't hold on to the bike anymore.:nono:


skin suit = bad


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

Nico Vouilloz loves men in skin tight clothing and body paint


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## PimpinD (May 29, 2008)

from my experience, if my DJ seat isnt slammed, and angled up, if i hit the backtire (which has happen) and i get thrown forward into the seat post / back of seat (from it being raised) it hurts a lot more.... 

usually if i hit the back tire, and get thrown forward, with the seat angled i end up on the seat and not under it...


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

bacon


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## buckoW (Feb 7, 2007)

The seat angled up gives more room for your leg when cracking tables and makes it less possible to get hung up when bringing the bike back to straight.


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## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

Iceman2058 said:


> :skep:


Thats not exactly what i meant by street riding, nor the way or style that the vast majority of people ride street on mountain bikes.

I'll admit that i think that he has skills. And that the video is entertaining.

First of all, he's on a trials bike. With no suspension. And what are those, 24's? smaller? I think it could definitely be argued that that's closer to a bmx bike, than anything that should be called a mountain bike, by todays standards.

Second of all, the vast majority of that video is trials riding, or trials riding with some mediocre street skills mixed in. The rest are street moves that could have done been better, and have been done better on bmx bikes.

The video works, and is entertaining because of the blend of styles, not because it is impressive street riding.

Thanks for playing, and for proving my point.


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## alimaclikespie (Sep 19, 2008)

Yes Danny Mac is a trials rider (those are 24" wheels) but a trials bike is still classed as more of a MTB than a BMX. Lets not forget that Trials originated from MTB whereas BMX originated from kids bikes.

How about this then?


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## alimaclikespie (Sep 19, 2008)

Oh yeah and mike mongomery doesnt wear girls jeans when slim fit MENS jeans will do.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

Trials is a lot closer to MTB than BMX. I would also bet a large amount of cash that Danny Mac is a lousy trials rider when it comes to competition. 

Girl pants on boys and men are still lame. Emo is still stupid. Being a virgin by choice is retarded. wearing lycra for anything other than racing XC or shooting a porno is pointless. 
I could care less where someone angles thier seat, it personal preferance.


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## dipper (Jun 14, 2005)

I agree it looks stupid but then I'm old so what the hell do I know. but to suggest it's for some sort of performance gain/no money etc is even stupider. It's fashion pure and simple. they're all at it down the local skate park. 

Only thing that concerns me(also because i'm old and have kids) is the lack of helmets and body armour! they're braining themselves on a daily basis.

yeah we all did it back in the early 90's as well(we also dressed in dayglo lycra and had purple ano bikes). MTBing with no helmets and the only armour back then was fitted to tanks but all the gears available now so there's no excuse other than fashion and we'll never stop that. 

I wear knee armour all the time now as I'm paranoid about damaging them and am aware that my biking days could be over if I do. at 15 I didn't care what happened tomorrow, never mind planning years ahead by looking after myself.


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## ridefreeride (Apr 8, 2009)

i wish i could ride trials


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## rinseflow (Sep 18, 2007)

dropmachine.com said:


> Whats worse, a bunch of kids wearing tight jeans and sporting funny haircuts, or a bunch of sport class racers spending hundreds of dollars on the latest TLD pyjama kits with matching helmets trying to be all "moto?"


LOL. :thumbsup:

Why the hell do they make them look like pyjamas anyway? Is it intentional? That's how I've been seeing some of the TLD's for a long time. Thor sure has some pyjama prints on their stuff too.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Nick_M2R said:


> Illl also add to the question, why do some of them wear skinny jeans, emo haircuts, and make em selves look like complete wankers? And why don't these people wear helmets?
> (note, I'm not saying everyone in this riding catagory are like this, only some are)


Cycle helmets do relatively **** all to protect you in the event of a mountain bike accident or road accident. They are simply too light and too insubstantial to offer much if any energy reduction/protection against serious head injury. They do nothing to prevent spinal injury.

Helmets are mostly for insurance purposes and law abidance i.e. being seen to at least do something in these risk-averse insurance-claim nanny-state times...


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Teague said:


> not because it is impressive street riding


Suck it, you're just jealous you can't ride probably anywhere near his level.


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## rinseflow (Sep 18, 2007)

9speed said:


> Cycle helmets do relatively **** all to protect you in the event of a mountain bike accident or road accident.


Yeah, definitely! It's always better to crack a skull than a helmet. Helmets cost money and skull you don't need to buy a new one, so like what's the point. 

Trollin' huh?


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

No dum dum. I am educated. Skint but educated. Do some research. Regular cycle helmets don't offer much protection i.e. very little. Downhill type helmets are better, but the protection they offer is still, or can be considered, negligible. 

Your average cycle helmet will not save your skull. Might stop you getting some cuts and bruises. Sure, but prevent brain damage in a major impact? Not a chance.


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## rinseflow (Sep 18, 2007)

Well that does depend on what is classified as a major impact. 

From 22-26mph fall and head first impact to road surface? Road helmets go to pieces and mostly people escape with a minor concussion and bruising, cuts all over. Slip on ice and hit your head not wearing a helmet riding at no speed at all, people die like this every year. Is it down to more luck with hitting your head if you wear a helmet, is that what it is?


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

rinseflow said:


> Well that does depend on what is classified as a major impact.
> 
> From 22-26mph fall and head first impact to road surface? Road helmets go to pieces and mostly people escape with a minor concussion and bruising, cuts all over. Slip on ice and hit your head not wearing a helmet riding at no speed at all, people die like this every year. Is it down to more luck with hitting your head if you wear a helmet, is that what it is?


What are you wittering about. Most people survive 30mph falls on to their heads do they? Where did you get that information? Was it from the WhateverIjustmadeitup University?

Strewf.


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## rinseflow (Sep 18, 2007)

Read papers. You gave yourself away, troll.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

As per mtbr usual. An educated response leads to accusations of being a troll fron the ********.

The data shows that cycle helmets are not very effective at preventing brain injury due to impact. At best they can offer protection against cuts, bruises, and some protection against sharp foreign objects such as sticks and stones... but a dirt jumper might as well jump without. What they do nowadays, a cycle helmet doesn't offer much protection from.


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## rinseflow (Sep 18, 2007)

9speed said:


> Cycle helmets do relatively **** all to protect you in the event of a mountain bike accident or road accident.


Generalizing it like that will mean all helmets. If you want to say dirt jumpers are better without because protection is better that way and they look **** cool, then just say it.

As stated, road incidents (in race situation) result in cracked helmets and sometimes in a concussion. I've had mine. Slipping on a bike on black ice in the city streets results in deaths every year for some non-helmet wearers. It's not even news, it's just one more number for the statistics.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

rinseflow said:


> Generalizing it like that will mean all helmets. If you want to say dirt jumpers are better without because protection is better that way and they look **** cool, then just say it.
> 
> As stated, road incidents (in race situation) result in cracked helmets and sometimes in a concussion. I've had mine. Slipping on a bike on black ice in the city streets results in deaths every year for some non-helmet wearers. It's not even news, it's just one more number for the statistics.


What you are claiming simply isn't true. Cycle helmets do not prevent death, period, as you Americans like to say. On that the data is clear. Cycle helmets offer very little protection against serious head injury. Try reading the data.

What does the cracked helmet tell you? It offered very little impact resistance. At best you get less cuts with a helmet, at worse you get an inflated and irrational sense of protection, and so you take more risks. Which again is something the data suggests.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

9 speed you are a trollin fool, go cut your wrists with some emo kids. 

No one ever said that a helmet is going to be 100% effective but they sure to reduce the number of cycling related deaths and serious injury. Saying DJ riders don't need to wear one is just plain retarded. They sure do hit jumps so big that lading in certain situations a helmet would be useless but there are also times where the helmet could prevent death or serious injury. 

You sound like an idiot. I am guessing seatbelts and airbags in cars are pointless too? Since people use them and still die?


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

boogenman said:


> 9 speed you are a trollin fool, go cut your wrists with some emo kids.
> 
> No one ever said that a helmet is going to be 100% effective but they sure to reduce the number of cycling related deaths and serious injury.


No they really don't. At all. The research proves this. Cycle helmets do not prevent many if any deaths. Indeed the standards the helmets have to adhere to don't reqquire this condition is met. A basic understanding of science and engineering would enable you to see the cycle helmet for what it really is. A plastic hat that will prevent cuts in some accidents yet offers very limited protection agaist serious impact.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

The mother fukking man:









Monty boys that mack Danny Mac look like the little emo tool he is


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

boogenman said:


> 9 speed you are a trollin fool, go cut your wrists with some emo kids.
> 
> No one ever said that a helmet is going to be 100% effective but they sure to reduce the number of cycling related deaths and serious injury. Saying DJ riders don't need to wear one is just plain retarded. They sure do hit jumps so big that lading in certain situations a helmet would be useless but there are also times where the helmet could prevent death or serious injury.
> 
> You sound like an idiot. I am guessing seatbelts and airbags in cars are pointless too? Since people use them and still die?


Simply not true. A cycle helmet offers very little protection against serious impact to the head. There simply isn't enough material in a cycle helmet to turn the energy into material deformation, noise, heat, etc. There simply isn't enough material to decellerate a head landing from way up there after a Red Bull freeride loop de bar loop.

All the data that exists reveals this to be true. The standards the cycle helmet manufacturers have to adhere to don't in anyway make provision for what cyclists do today on bicycles. If you fall at about 10 mph onto the curb, sure good old helmet will help you a bit.. unless of course you break your neck...

Same is true of horse hats. The great Chris Reeve was wearing a horse hat.

I prefer not to wear a cycle helmet. It's the freedom.

In Australia when they implemented compulsory helmets, there was a drop in deaths, and the governments and cycle helmet manufacturers all gave themselves pats on the back and blow jobs. However, when the data was analysed they found that the decrease in head injury was directly proportional to the decrease in the numbers of cyclists following the ban. The ban recduced injury because less people chose to cycle... hence it really is an issue of freedom amd efficacy .


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

> I am guessing seatbelts and airbags in cars are pointless too? Since people use them and still die?


Depends what you consider the "point" to be. I'm fairly confident that if airbags were replaced with a big fecking boxing glove on a spring people would drive waaaay more carefully.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Worth reading....

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1068.html


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

"It is important to recognise the flaws in this logic. Even if helmets are effective, it does not follow that all cyclists should wear them. Racing car drivers wear helmets, but not people driving to work. The difference is the level of risk. For the same reason, racing cyclists and mountain bikers often choose to wear helmets, but riding down a quiet road to the corner shop is a generally safe activity. Driving and cycling have similar risks per hour of serious head injury."




Just love that logic.... next time some Auntie Cotton Pants tells you to wear a helmet on your bike, tell them you will if they wear one when they are in the car....


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

"Safety conscious cyclists more likely to wear helmets...."

In other words, cycle helmets tend to be ridden by pansy girly men who don't have many accidents.


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## chinkerjuarez (Apr 23, 2007)

Darwinism will eventually take care of people like 9speed.


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## chinkerjuarez (Apr 23, 2007)

we found that riders with helmets had an 85 percent reduction in their risk of head injury (odds ratio, 0.15; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.07 to 0.29) and an 88 percent reduction in their risk of brain injury

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/320/21/1361

from the New England Journal of Medicine. Those odds are good enough for me to wear a helmet.

I know this article was quoted in the orginal argument, but the orginal argument dosen't have any real evidence or studies to show their point all it does is pick apart the NEJM Article. No study is perfect but the Rivera Thomson study was actually an experiment that had a result the rebuttal was just comments and commentary.

You can create similar arguments for seat-belts and air bags and cumple zones. Nothing is perfect but the effectiveness of them out weighs the dangers of them. I am sure people have died from selt belts trapping them, airbags are dangerous in some instances, but the benefit out weighs all of this. At least a helmet hasn't killed anyone. So since an airbag or seat belt can kill you I am going to stop using them. Who is with me???


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

Lol, I'm loving reading this thread. Why so many personal insults, and I really don't get why being a virgin by choice is stupid. It's like saying not taking heroine when you have the chance is stupid. Lycra is also good for road racing, great for wearing underneath stuff and also skinsuits can make people faster on certain downhill courses.

Helmet wise, you seem to be contradicting yourself a bit 9speed. Your saying about helmets not absorbing any energy from an impact, and also saying that the fact they break on impact proves they are not working. What do you think you need to break a helmet... ENERGY! Energy used to break the helmet is less energy damaging you. It may not be much, but I'd take any improvement if it's the different between dying/having a worse quality of life, or not.

You also seem to be using examples of standard commuters, and red bull freeriders, depending on whichever suits your current point. Please just argue about the effectivness of helmets in one situation at a time.

And I'm not surprised cycling helmets are worn by people who have less accidents. The people who don't wear them are obviously stupid, and probably have so many brain cells knocked out of them by the extra accidents they can't see sense.


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## idrivefun (Mar 31, 2009)

Calling BS on this... seen first hand a helmet save a dudes melon... cuts and scrapes, really, YOU really think that's all they are good fer... 

the research proves this? link please... a link to any credible source of research. You also work for the global warming crew and their "research" team? Some poor misinformation going on here



9speed said:


> No they really don't. At all. The research proves this. Cycle helmets do not prevent many if any deaths. Indeed the standards the helmets have to adhere to don't reqquire this condition is met. A basic understanding of science and engineering would enable you to see the cycle helmet for what it really is. A plastic hat that will prevent cuts in some accidents yet offers very limited protection agaist serious impact.


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## idrivefun (Mar 31, 2009)

9speed said:


> Worth reading....
> 
> http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1068.html


OK, props for the link...


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Damn 9speed, are you getting pissed off because your troll isn't working?


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

d.n.s said:


> you mean looks like this?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


one day this poor man is going to have to re-learn the alphabet or worse how to ride a bike


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

The skinny jeans do have a purpose, it does aid in keeping the fabric out of the chain.

BUT! i'm talking about properly fitting skinny jeans, they don't look stupid like the 2 sizes too small, ass-hanging out, blood constricting, emo jeans.

The saddle tipped back helps prevent the saddle from catching on your pants when you go way far over the rear wheel.


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## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

Sneeck said:


> Suck it, you're just jealous you can't ride probably anywhere near his level.


nope. i'm just a guy who rides real mountain bikes on real mountains. i dunno. maybe this whole street thing is good. more people riding in the streets means less on the trails right?


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## mountains (Apr 10, 2009)

Dheorl said:


> Why so many personal insults, and I really don't get why being a virgin by choice is stupid. It's like saying not taking heroine when you have the chance is stupid.


It's actually not like saying that at all.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

chinkerjuarez said:


> we found that riders with helmets had an 85 percent reduction in their risk of head injury (odds ratio, 0.15; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.07 to 0.29) and an 88 percent reduction in their risk of brain injury
> 
> http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/320/21/1361
> 
> ...


That study is apparently based on children on children's bikes. So you are quite happy to scale up, to interpolate, and so if an 8 year old on a kid's bike has a 85% less chance of head injury, you think that tiny bit of foam and plastic will protect you with similar odds when you are downhilling or jumping? Not a chance.

Try reading the link I posted above again. It highlights why that study you have such faith in is flawed.

Cycle helmets offer very little protection against brain injury in adults doing proper full on mountain bike stuff. If you are jumping 10-30ft in the air, if you are blasting down a mountain at 30-50mph, if you are jumping off a cliff for Kranked or Red Bull etc. That helmet you might be wearing is doing very little other than making insurers happy that they can tick their boxes, and helmet manufacturers happy that they are selling ticky tacky plastic helmets. It's also making you uncomfortable of course, and reducing your visibility, but the fact is that a cycle helmet offers next to no protection in a serious head impact. There simply isn't enoughterial there to protect the brain in a real impact. Other studies show this.

So I say.. don't wear one. Pointless things.

I laugh at people who wear them just to pootle round the woods....


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

9speed said:


> That study is apparently based on children on children's bikes. So you are quite happy to scale up, to interpolate, and so if an 8 year old on a kid's bike has a 85% less chance of head injury, you think that tiny bit of foam and plastic will protect you with similar odds when you are downhilling or jumping? Not a chance.
> 
> Try reading the link I posted above again. It highlights why that study you have such faith in is flawed.
> 
> ...


While i agree that the average cycling specific full face is insufficient (not DOT approved)

I also think that you are the most retarded idiot in all of trollville.



> Never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experiance!


I forgot who said that, but my god does it apply to this thread and 9 speed.


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

From the point of view of riding off cliffs and doing jumps with full face helmets, they do help... alot. Mainly admitadly because it means you can use a neck brace.

Also like I said, the seriousness of a crash is all down to chance, and even if something only improves my chance of survival by a few %, I'd still comsider that it is definatly worth it. If you really hate your life that much then feel free to not do anything to attempt to protect it.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

"Thus the helmets currently sold are designed to protect against minimum falls under ideal conditions for the helmets, not for real falls by human beings........"

http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/advocacy/mhls.htm


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Dheorl said:


> From the point of view of riding off cliffs and doing jumps with full face helmets, they do help... alot. Mainly admitadly because it means you can use a neck brace.
> 
> Also like I said, the seriousness of a crash is all down to chance, and even if something only improves my chance of survival by a few %, I'd still comsider that it is definatly worth it. If you really hate your life that much then feel free to not do anything to attempt to protect it.


Ah good old made up science based on opinion.

Some suggest that helmets might actually cause greater injury due to the greater rotational forces they contribute to the head on impact.

Besides, really, how often do you fall on your head? I have been cycling 30 years. Never once have I landed on my head. I swear you lot have all gone mad. Cycling helmets are designed to best protect against a kind of impact that never happens i.e. top of the head. What about a side blow?

And anyway, the cycling helmet is so compromised to make it farcical. An adequate helmet wouldn't be comfortable to ride. It would weigh several pounds, and present additional problems because of its extra weight...

I would rather have the freedom of wind in my hair than take the hot sweaty uncomfortable hassle of a little bit of overpriced plastic and foam on my head. I would rather forego the very negligible protection a tiddly cycle helmet offers. Cycle helmets are the foo foo dust nonsense hi-fi speaker cables of the bicycle world. Nice work if you can get it!

And again... using your logic, you should also put a helmet on to drive your car and walk to the shops. And for sex....

Actually, since an overwhelming number of accidents occur in the bathroom, you should also wear a helmet in the bath or shower....


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## buckoW (Feb 7, 2007)

9speed, what kind of riding do you do?


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## Team Fubar Rider (Sep 3, 2003)

9 Speed, I have to respectfully disagree. I have broken 4 helmets in the last 10 years and at in 3 of those crashes had I not been wearing my helmet, I would have been at least SERIOUSLY injured and 2 of those I may not be here talking/typing to you.

Not one of those crashes did I land on the "top" of my head. The last one, as a matter of fact, I landed on my side, with the impact causing my head to slam on it's side on the ground. Hit so hard that snot/spit flew out of some part of my body (mouth, nose) and covered my glasses with slime and dirt. The helmet compressed and broke in the area of impact, which it was designed to do. I hit my head in the temporal area and I had a light headache for a few days, but I have crashed enough to know that the impact would have been far more severe if I hadn't been wearing a helmet. 

So, please, if you don't want to wear a helmet, don't. Darwin is right.


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

Lol, so you completely ignore my comment about neck braces. Also I would have said helmets causing rotational forces sounds like made up science to me. How on earth would a piss pot cause your head to rotate?

My last crash I flew head first into a tree root (front wheel kicked off something, slipped round and I got catapulted). My head made first contact, the helmet broke, and I rode off with a bit of a head ache. I'm geussing if the helmet wasn't there my head would have broken in some way.

Decent helmets (and especially full face helmets) also give a certain amount of protection to the sides and back of your head.

I'm sure many more people die per year in the bathroom than on mountain bikes, but then again alot more people use a bathroom than mountain bikes.

More people die due to coconuts than acts of terror, does this mean the goverments of the world should launch a war on coconuts?

I just don't see how you can seriously be saying people should be doing serious freeriding, with no helmets. Apart from anything, as mention, that would also mean no neck braces.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

9speed said:


> As per mtbr usual. An educated response leads to accusations of being a troll fron the ********.
> 
> The data shows that cycle helmets are not very effective at preventing brain injury due to impact. At best they can offer protection against cuts, bruises, and some protection against sharp foreign objects such as sticks and stones... but a dirt jumper might as well jump without. What they do nowadays, a cycle helmet doesn't offer much protection from.


Comparing brain injury from impact on a flat surface? Ok maybe you have a bit of a point, but there are these things called rocks you mention, which tend to be littered in the earths surface. Some protection? Such objects could crack the sh!t out of your skull. You are assuming way to much in your minuscule little world, while at the same time addressing it?

Then calling others ignorant? I never really knew the true meaning of a thread troll till coming across this.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

9 speed, so you claim that a helmet is not good when you go down really, really hard. So lets say you ride at 15 - 20 mph and fall otb head first on a gravel/ rocky ground. You claim that you would be safer without a helmet then with one?

How stupid can you be. This is me crashing at freeraid classic last summer, it broke the carbon outer shell and the hard foamish shell on the inside. With a regular cross country style helmet I wouldve had a massive concusion, with that fullface all I had was a minor one and luckily no neck injury. I'm sure you could imagen not only the cuts and bruizes but the brain damage I would've got when I fell like that with no helmet.

http://www.pinkbike.com/v/83652

Go try your troll'ism at the cross country board ya dweeb, it's not working here. I always do freeride stuff with a proper fullface and when dirtjumping/ street riding I always wear a purpose made helmet(you know with a thick plastic shell over the hard foam to help distribute impact force)

Ohh and I laugh at the fools riding without a helmet, you'll learn the hard way some day.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

When i see those kind of videos i'm entertained impressed ect ect, the lack of helmet means very little to me,i'm not concerned,he seems to know what he's doing.Most of his falls don't involve head impact i know what that's like,i rode for many years without a helmet. When i dh i would definitely wear one even without outside influence,when i xc i wear my roady helmet,but i've forgotten it a couple of times and it didn't effect me a bit . But i didn't turn into a helmet nazi when i chose to start wearing one. You might put up some noble purpose behind your concern, caring about your fellow man, betterment of society,we end up paying for his care ect ect ,but i think you just like telling people what they should do.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Oh no not at all, he and other's who don't crash on their head while not wearing a helmet either have wicked luck or could turn their body at the last second avoiding head impact. That is not nearly good enough for me, that crash was my first severe one in 2 years of biking with an airlift off the mountain, before I always wore one anyway cause I know *if* you fall on your head without one you *will* regret it the rest of your life cause most injury's are so easy to avoid. Granted it doesn't protect me from everything, but that is no reason at all to convince people not to wear helmets. If you watch closely you could see the point of where my wheel slammed 90 degrees and the time it took my body at that speed to hit the ground there is no way on earth you'll be able to react and save yourself by rolling over or something.

Mayb it's the thing that i'm only 23 years old and want to do allot before I either die or get injured so bad it limits my ability to bike. However I do try to convince people to wear safety gear, just for the hell of it. You say no i'll leave you alone, it's you're choice and i'm fine with that. But don't try to drag other's with you, any sensable person knows that wearing a helmet helps preventing injury.


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## bts420 (Jun 28, 2009)

9SPEED : I trail ride pretty aggressive and hit up to 4 ft drops and small to med. jumps. I wear a bell sport cycling helmet and it has saved my head so many times. I go over the bars straight into a rock on the ground or smack a tree branch and guess what theres my helmet. Saying a helmet does nothing or very little to protect you is just idiotic! And guess what, a lot of cycling helmets are actually designed to crack upon a heavy impact which more evenly distributes the forces and helps to dissipate them. This way they stay light and provide protection. Full face helm would def. be nice for jaw and more overall protection, but any helmet helps. Since you don't believe in helmets just keep riding without one...


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

...9 speed, this is a troll! the helmet thing is completely off the topic of this thread!!

and not only is it off topic, it's a really stupid arguement.

Hey, if i were to take a baseball bat and bash your head with it, would you rather have the helmet? or would you guarantee your death by saying "well they do virtually nothing to protect you, so i'm gonna not wear it"

you said before that helmets that crack only prove that they don't absorb much energy. go and buy a helmet and see how much force it takes to crack the shell, cracking it uses energy, energy that is absorbed from the crash.

Thats not made up science, thats physics.


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## k_mill (Jun 9, 2007)

*9speed is ridiculous*

"It only takes 33 ft pounds of energy to fracture a skull, or
approximately 398 inch pounds of energy"
http://www.eijkhout.net/rad/dance_other/health4.html

"It takes about 250 to 350 ft/pounds to fracture the skull, which is
close to the rib fracture energy above."
http://www.kenrahn.com/JFK/Issues_and_evidence/Frontal_shot(s)/Tobias_frontal_shots/Head_snap.html

"a force of 73 Newtons is enough to cause a simple fracture, this
force is the equivalent of walking into something solid. An
unrestrained adult fall from standing has been shown to produce a
minimal force of 873 N which is more than enough to produce a skull
fracture."
http://www.portfolio.mvm.ed.ac.uk/studentwebs/session2/group62/head.htm

NOTE* to convert Newtons to pounds multiply by 0.2248 in the above
case 73 newtons=16.4104 and 873N=196.2504 lbs

A bicycle helmet is rated to protect your head from a drop to flat of up to 2.2 meters, which would result in 81.1 ft-lbs of energy. If 33 ft-lbs can crack your skull, I would say you would be better off with a helmet on in the event of crash.

9speed I hope since you make fun of people for wearing helmets that you are a great rider.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

9speed said:


> Worth reading....
> 
> http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1068.html


yeah and how many of these "injuries" occurred from mountain biking, road biking and BMX i would be interested in seeing those stats and if a helmet it too much for you to handle i suggest you choose another sport perhaps in the special olympics wearing a helmet is 100 times better than re-learning the alphabet or how to ride


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## blender (Oct 28, 2005)

The hardest head impact i've had to date, was crashing at the local DJs. I fell on the side of my head (are you reading this 9speed ?), from about 12 feet up. The impact compressed the foam in my 661 dirt lid all the way to the outer shell, leaving a perfect head-sized round dent on the inside of the helmet.

I walked away with a minor concussion and 3 weeks worth of headaches and dizziness.
Had I not been wearing the helmet, i would NOT be typing this today. That is a fact.


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## pro (Oct 7, 2007)

I was riding diablo. Lower dominion to be exact. (I think. The ones with the huge wallrides) It was raining, and I was about half way up the wall ride. My wheel washed out, and I went down hard. I felt my head hit the ground. Thank god I was wearing a full face. There's some pretty deep scratches in it now from that crash.


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## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)




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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

9speed, you've just been owned.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

pro said:


> I was riding diablo. Lower dominion to be exact. (I think. The ones with the huge wallrides) It was raining, and I was about half way up the wall ride. My wheel washed out, and I went down hard. I felt my head hit the ground. Thank god I was wearing a full face. There's some pretty deep scratches in it now from that crash.


Woop de doo.. it saved you getting some cuts. Anecdotal reports like yours attest to nothing.

A helmet would do very little in the event of a serious impact to the head. Not even a full-face offers much brain protection... but we keep going round in circles. my issue with helmets is this...

Car drivers don't wear them. Rally drivers do. Figure Ice skaters don't wear them, but speed skaters do. Cyclists are expected to wear them but pedestrians aren't. Some mountain bikers wear them and some don't. I have never ever landed on my head, let alone on the top of my head. Why ruin your comfort and freedom for something that rarely happens?

All seems a tad arbitrary.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

AlexJK said:


> 9speed, you've just been owned.


Not really. I have an opinion that others share.

We can't all be helmet/panty wearing pansies.


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## daway (Jun 15, 2008)

9speed said:


> Not really. I have an opinion that others share.
> 
> We can't all be helmet/panty wearing pansies.


If only I could be as manly as you are...till then I'll just keep wearing my helmet and matching panties.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Come on guys... how often do you land on your head?

Why wear something all the time that offers limited protection, protection that is rarely ever tested?

Seems crazy. Aint gonna save your spine. Unikely to save your brain in a big one..

Stupid things, helmets.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

9speed said:


> Come on guys... how often do you land on your head?
> 
> Why wear something all the time that offers limited protection, protection that is rarely ever tested?
> 
> ...


fine when you fall on your unprotected head and die there will be more room in the world for the rest of us and as a byproduct through selective reproduction your stupidity will die with you happy trails:thumbsup:


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

blooregard said:


> fine when you fall on your unprotected head and die there will be more room in the world for the rest of us and as a byproduct through selective reproduction your stupidity will die with you happy trails:thumbsup:


Jeosis Chrost.. you still don't get it.

Helmets will not protect you from death. In an accident likely to cause death, you will only see negligible protection from your helmet. In other words, you still be dead.

Geez.. no wonder they get away with rigging elections over there....


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

9speed said:


> Jeosis Chrost.. you still don't get it.
> 
> Helmets will not protect you from death. In an accident likely to cause death, you will only see negligible protection from your helmet. In other words, you still be dead.
> 
> Geez.. no wonder they get away with rigging elections over there....


wow you crashed already you must have because you spelled Jesus Christ wrong


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

blooregard said:


> wow you crashed already you must have because you spelled Jesus Christ wrong


I was just trying not to blaspheme.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

9speed said:


> I was just trying not to blaspheme.


:smallviolin:


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Sneeck said:


> 9 speed, so you claim that a helmet is not good when you go down really, really hard. So lets say you ride at 15 - 20 mph and fall otb head first on a gravel/ rocky ground. You claim that you would be safer without a helmet then with one?
> 
> How stupid can you be. This is me crashing at freeraid classic last summer, it broke the carbon outer shell and the hard foamish shell on the inside. With a regular cross country style helmet I wouldve had a massive concusion, with that fullface all I had was a minor one and luckily no neck injury. I'm sure you could imagen not only the cuts and bruizes but the brain damage I would've got when I fell like that with no helmet.
> 
> ...


Bit of a feeble crash I thought.

And what are you suggesting the helmet saved exactly? His life? ROTFLMAO!

He would have been just as hurt without.

Rugby players have heavier falls and they don't wear helmets....


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

Rugby players don't land on rocks though.

You keep on saying you'll die without a helmet, and because they provide such little protection you'll die with one. I'm sorry but that's just stupid.

The difference between life and death can be tiny sometimes, in which case a helmet will help.

Also they don't do any bad, so why not?


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Dheorl said:


> Rugby players don't land on rocks though.
> 
> You keep on saying you'll die without a helmet, and because they provide such little protection you'll die with one. I'm sorry but that's just stupid.
> 
> ...


They often clash heads when they run into each other.

Which brings me back to the question, if you don't land on your head every ride, and helmets offer limited protection should you land on your head, why ruin every ride in a sweaty helmet? I'd rather be without.


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

I don't land on my head every ride, but I can hardly plan which rides I will land on my head.

I find that my head is by far and away the last part of my body to get sweaty. Because of this I find no reason to not use that limited protection... it's still protection.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

I am bored of this now.

A helmet is very limited protection. So limited in fact that it really isn't being unprotected to not wear one. They are heavily compromised items.

Also, you lose most of your heat through your head, so I am afraid that covering it with a helmet is really not a good idea when exercising.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

9speed said:


> Bit of a feeble crash I thought.
> 
> And what are you suggesting the helmet saved exactly? His life? ROTFLMAO!
> 
> ...


You sir(or kid, as thats the level of your responses) are totally incorrect. I pointed out a helmet will not save my life, what it * will * save in an event of a minor crash such as my video is a heavy concusion with likely brain damage as a result. You can try to defend your opinion that without a helmet i'd just have had the same damage/ minor concusion as you want, but nobody will ever buy that. I fell to a dead stop from speed on a hard gravel/ rocky trail, dream on if you think a helmet will not save you from injury. You are living in a made-up fantasy world dominated by falsely implemented data.

Also, you keep dragging in a major crash a helmet will not save you. So let's see, if you wear one and you will crash you'll be dead, what does it mean if you don't? You'll die either way right? Now go figure, I take wearing a helmet and prevent minor injury any day over not wearing one cause it doesn't work in a "real" heavy crash. The chances of causing more damage with my helmet on than without are so minimum it's plain silly to keep bringing it back. It takes no force at all damaging your brain which leads to loosing your ability to walk and ride a bike, you are willing to loose this by simply don't wear a helmet? Go ahead.

I bet you're one of them guy's who say's you don't need to wear seatbelts in cars which have airbags too.


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## RamRider (Sep 10, 2009)

So I always wear a helmet…….
Except when I am urban riding…….
But I know I should wear one even when just riding street.
BUT I see where 9speed is coming from, he may not be completely correct but that doesn’t mean we should hope he dies because he doesn’t share our views on wearing helmets.
You DH guys can be brutal lol


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## cyrix (Jan 29, 2008)

9speed said:


> I am bored of this now.


A.K.A. "I got my ass handed to me in a debate so I'm just going to use a cheap cop out."


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

No he totally oversee's the point why we wear helmets. I'm pretty sure everyone knows it won't save you're life in a major crash, but anything in between it'll do the job nicely to protect the gray matter. He also fails to see the amount of force it actually take's on the head to damage it, with the sport we are in you can use some extra protection to help in a crash. 

If an obstinate guy like 9 speed try's and fails to tell the world about his opinion he will get burned down like he did. I don't want to publicly whish people dead or stuff like that for sticking by their opinion but some people are so ignorant by their own made-up truth it's sickening.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Sneeck said:


> You sir(or kid, as thats the level of your responses) are totally incorrect. I pointed out a helmet will not save my life, what it * will * save in an event of a minor crash such as my video is a heavy concusion with likely brain damage as a result. You can try to defend your opinion that without a helmet i'd just have had the same damage/ minor concusion as you want, but nobody will ever buy that. I fell to a dead stop from speed on a hard gravel/ rocky trail, dream on if you think a helmet will not save you from injury. You are living in a made-up fantasy world dominated by falsely implemented data.
> 
> Also, you keep dragging in a major crash a helmet will not save you. So let's see, if you wear one and you will crash you'll be dead, what does it mean if you don't? You'll die either way right? Now go figure, I take wearing a helmet and prevent minor injury any day over not wearing one cause it doesn't work in a "real" heavy crash. The chances of causing more damage with my helmet on than without are so minimum it's plain silly to keep bringing it back. It takes no force at all damaging your brain which leads to loosing your ability to walk and ride a bike, you are willing to loose this by simply don't wear a helmet? Go ahead.
> 
> I bet you're one of them guy's who say's you don't need to wear seatbelts in cars which have airbags too.


No, clearly seatbelts are very effective at saving lives. Therefore I wear one. Airbags also useful. But why don't car drivers wear helmets if cyclists do? It's all rather arbitrary.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

k_mill said:


> "It only takes 33 ft pounds of energy to fracture a skull, or
> approximately 398 inch pounds of energy"
> http://www.eijkhout.net/rad/dance_other/health4.html
> 
> ...


The figure you quote is for an impact to the top of the helmet. This is how helmets are tested, and this is what the standards dictate. You also, negate what happens to that energy on impact. It doesn't just go away, there isn't enough material in a cycle helmet to just diddipate and absorb that 81ft/lbs figure you qoute.

Cycle helmets are of limited use.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

It's not the dissipation of energy that matters in a situation like that, it's the rate at which your head is going decelerate. A helmet adds a little buffer which is quite precious when your talking about reducing G's on your head and therefore less sloshing around of your brain inside you skull. 

You completely fail to see the other factors in a crash. I've had my helmet jousted by pointy bamboo and just had it scrape off. I've had branches clip off fair bits of paint. If that was my head I'm sure it would have been a major laceration and we all know how wounds to the head bleed. Would have certainly ruined my day. 

I think a great example of your argument would be: If I was within a kilometer of the epicenter of a nuclear explosion - a helmet would do very little to save my life.


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

9speed said:


> No, clearly seatbelts are very effective at saving lives. Therefore I wear one. Airbags also useful. But why don't car drivers wear helmets if cyclists do? It's all rather arbitrary.


Considering how many people die in car accidents, maybe they should!


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

bacon


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

I'm not really sure what's worse...the dudes in this thread who are overly concerned with what other dudes wear while riding their bikes, or the dudes in this thread who are carrying on an extended argument with a poster who is CLEARLY trolling. I mean, how much more obvious does he need to be?

Next thing you know, people will be having an heated debate with someone who posts about square wheels being OBVIOUSLY better than round ones.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Well ofcourse it's better you'll have way more tire contact on the ground, equals more grip which in term means you can corner faster. Not that hard to figure out is it:thumbsup:


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Quarashi said:


> It's not the dissipation of energy that matters in a situation like that, it's the rate at which your head is going decelerate. A helmet adds a little buffer which is quite precious when your talking about reducing G's on your head and therefore less sloshing around of your brain inside you skull.
> 
> You completely fail to see the other factors in a crash. I've had my helmet jousted by pointy bamboo and just had it scrape off. I've had branches clip off fair bits of paint. If that was my head I'm sure it would have been a major laceration and we all know how wounds to the head bleed. Would have certainly ruined my day.
> 
> I think a great example of your argument would be: If I was within a kilometer of the epicenter of a nuclear explosion - a helmet would do very little to save my life.


Yeah that happens a lot.. pointy bamboo.. have to watch out for it... pesky stuff.. that and the pandas. Thank Allah for that little plastic helmet...


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

9 speed...stop trolling
I suggest you go read up on basic physics, then come and try to sell your **** (of which no one here is buying)


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## PimpinD (May 29, 2008)

9speed - you are annoying my friend.


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## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

I am going out on my bike without my helmet.I am going to fall off on purpose and try to bang my head hard.Then i will be able to say wow what a man i am.I feel so much better about myself for not being a helmet wearing Pansy.Actually i went through a stage of not wearing a helmet but after seeing things i would of rather not and the fact that it really isnt that much of a big deal to put one on before you go out riding that passed.


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## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

Anyway ,do what you like but why insult others.


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## Noiseunderthebed (Sep 8, 2009)

9speed said:


> No, clearly seatbelts are very effective at saving lives. Therefore I wear one. Airbags also useful. But why don't car drivers wear helmets if cyclists do? It's all rather arbitrary.


Maybe Because they have airbags and seatbelts? not to mention the surrounding metal cage.

Race cars generally dont have airbags, they wear helmets........hmmmmmm I wonder why!


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

Yes, he is the definition of a troll.

For me, a proof that 9speed is incorrect is very simple:

1. I was a physics major in college (UC San Diego)
2. I have an MD (and an MPH fwiw)
3. You are wrong

Q.E.D.


Next topic...

PS: I have personally seen someone die from a ground level head injury (falling backwards onto a brick patio)
PPS: rotational energy can theoretically increase given the larger size of a helmet vs skull. However, in practice this would very rarely occur.
PPPS: reducing the rate of energy dissipation is analogous to decreasing deceleration g-forces. They are not equivalent, but you could measure/calculate either if you were trying to determine whether a specific device was helpful in reducing injury.


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## bmxer72 (May 20, 2006)

skinny jeans is kinda gay


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Noiseunderthebed said:


> Maybe Because they have airbags and seatbelts? not to mention the surrounding metal cage.
> 
> Race cars generally dont have airbags, they wear helmets........hmmmmmm I wonder why!


LOL

Now we really are stabbing in the dark!


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

rdhfreethought said:


> Yes, he is the definition of a troll.
> 
> For me, a proof that 9speed is incorrect is very simple:
> 
> ...


The most hilarious post yet. "In practice this would rarely occur..." What are you talking about man? Just cos you pluck your science' from out your butt, don't make that science right! I bet your 'science' training leads you to believe the official narrative regarding the twin towers (and building 7) i.e. that they fell because of fires.. I'm right aren't I? If so, I spit on your Mickey Mouse physics 'degree'.

Can you also suck your own widget?


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## jin0824 (May 28, 2009)

only riding makes you faster and better, spending your time to dis emo kids here doesn't.

btw my bang is chin-reaching, I wear skinny jeans for dh and fr.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

emo kids are not as good as bacon.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

helmets are like fat panties.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

9speed said:


> helmets are like fat panties.


Your thinking is retarded.


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## StinkyFTW (Jun 29, 2008)

9 Speed, I looked on your profile and you ride a Specialized Pitch Pro? If that's true, we can all safely guess that you aren't riding downhill, or freeride, but cross country. Or maybe all mountain, but still. You may not being doing anything dangerous enough enough to constitute a helmet, but everyone else here is. Keep your opinion, but don't try and force it onto people. So quit trolling.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

StinkyFTW said:


> 9 Speed, I looked on your profile and you ride a Specialized Pitch Pro? If that's true, we can all safely guess that you aren't riding downhill, or freeride, but cross country. Or maybe all mountain, but still. You may not being doing anything dangerous enough enough to constitute a helmet, but everyone else here is. Keep your opinion, but don't try and force it onto people. So quit trolling.


Lol.. is the Pitch a cross country bike? Lol

I detect some snobbery. For the record my Pitch has Hope Hoops on DT 5.1's, Hope headset, Hope bottom bracket, Hope skewers, Pike air fork, Stroker Trail brakes, DX pedals,... I ride what I can in the UK..

As for you lot all riding dangerously... yeah, like that video above.. woooooooooo!

ROTFLMAO


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## dwnhlldav (Feb 2, 2006)

9speed said:


> Ah good old made up science based on opinion.
> 
> And again... using your logic, you should also put a helmet on to drive your car and walk to the shops. And for sex....


Sex is only good if you need a helmet. You must be one of these self imposed Virgins if you don't know that yet.

I've fallen on the top of my head. I've also survived (barely) an accident that would have killed me or landed me in a coma had I not been wearing a helmet. You can think what you like, but I'm going to wear a helmet. And I'm going to insist that my kids wear helmets until I no longer provide them shelter and food.


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## Yukon-RSX (Feb 6, 2007)

9speed said:


> Lol.. is the Pitch a cross country bike? Lol
> 
> I detect some snobbery. For the record my Pitch has Hope Hoops on DT 5.1's, Hope headset, Hope bottom bracket, Hope skewers, Pike air fork, Stroker Trail brakes, DX pedals,... I ride what I can in the UK..
> 
> ...


Can't believe I live in the same country as this pr1ck. :madman:

Let's just hope I don't meet you on the trails...


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## mojojojoaf (Sep 9, 2008)

9speed said:


> Simply not true. A cycle helmet offers very little protection against serious impact to the head. There simply isn't enough material in a cycle helmet to turn the energy into material deformation, noise, heat, etc. There simply isn't enough material to decellerate a head landing from way up there after a Red Bull freeride loop de bar loop.
> 
> All the data that exists reveals this to be true. The standards the cycle helmet manufacturers have to adhere to don't in anyway make provision for what cyclists do today on bicycles. If you fall at about 10 mph onto the curb, sure good old helmet will help you a bit.. unless of course you break your neck...
> 
> ...


In 1993 I am personally glad I was wearing a helmet when I hit a cow doing 20plus miles an hour flipped 10feet in the air and landed on my head. Somehow it took that impact- turned it into material deformation and save my life- of course I was almost dead from the accident but my brain was intact. I was indeed lucky I didnt break my neck or sever my spinal cord (the cows stepped on my back after I landed).

But the helmet did its job and it was an old bell Cyclone from 1993.

You can spout all the data you want- hit your head just right and your a veggie. I prefer to at least mitigate some of the chances of that happening.

My only problem with skinny jeans are the guys that wear skiny jeans and feel the need to also wear them not saggy below the hips but below the butt cheeks as well. Clueless.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

Dangerous is only relative since you can die from falling when standing up.


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

9speed said:


> Lol.. is the Pitch a cross country bike? Lol
> 
> I detect some snobbery. For the record my Pitch has Hope Hoops on DT 5.1's, Hope headset, Hope bottom bracket, Hope skewers, Pike air fork, Stroker Trail brakes, DX pedals,... I ride what I can in the UK..
> 
> ...


Yep it's a cross sountry bike and judging from the build you don't have the stones to ride it.


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## bmxer72 (May 20, 2006)

:yikes: :eekster: ut:


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## mountains (Apr 10, 2009)

9speed said:


> Lol.. is the Pitch a cross country bike? Lol


Yes.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

mountains said:


> Yes.


dont be silly.


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

In summary, this guy is saying that wearing a helmet while riding a mountain bike is useless, he believes his Specialized Pitch is a downhill bike, AND he's a 9/11 conspiracy theorist. 


And you're all still arguing with him, why?


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Hesh to Steel said:


> In summary, this guy is saying that wearing a helmet while riding a mountain bike is useless, he believes his Specialized Pitch is a downhill bike, AND he's a 9/11 conspiracy theorist.
> 
> And you're all still arguing with him, why?


3 straight down pulverised collapses at freefall speeds all NOT following the least line of resistance... nah I am a realist. They were blown up.

I didn't say it was a downhill bike, I said it wasn't a cross country bike. It's true I don't have any mountains near where I live. I live in the UK. Not California.

The only reason this thread got to be so dumb was cos you guys were too easy to yank around and this forum doesn't invite inteligent debate.

The whole helmet argument has been raging on cycling fora since the internet began and forums were alt newsgroups...There is logic to what the anti-helmet brigade argue. However, I am reminded of the incident in which Christopher Reeve became paralysed. Head injuries are not the only injuries, and cycle helmets CAN BE ARGUED to offer little protection in that regard. That is all I am saying.

Unfortunately, too many of you aren't able to grasp and grapple with opinions and arguments.

I blame Fox news et al. It's created dumb asses of us all.


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

I can understand about arguing the need of cycling helmets on non wodded XC trails, or canal bike paths, but when doing stupid freeride stuff I really can't see much of an argument.

Also yes, helmts won't protect against paralysis from spinal injuries, but neck brakes will help, and for one of those to work you need a helmet.

And you live in the UK but can;t find mountains... south east I take it? Cos I'm in the UK and I don't have to go far to get mountains, especially by an american persons standards.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

hold on i thought this was a downhill forum ???


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## MOflow (Nov 25, 2009)

I'll put $10 down that 9speed has never used a condom. By his own logic, anything that could put a damper on the expirience isn't worth it. I mean, AIDS is no big deal right?


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

Quarashi said:


> ....just why?


Goodness.... What is going on here?!?

Well.. I rock a raked seat so I can slide behind my seat and over my back wheel while rockin baggy jeans!!

Seriously, I find it to be a more level platform when on steeps and landing steep trannys. Alot less likely to case your nuts on the back of your saddle or seatpost too....Know what I mean? And if thats never happened.. y'all aint ridin hard enough.

I don't know about specific dj or street reasons, but I ride dh,fr,dj,urban/park and rock a slight rake in all conditions.. and never wear tight jeans.!
--On the Helmet topic..
This reminds me of how old posts years ago with pics of dudes in the uk doing huge djs w/o helmets.. Everyone would get all riled up about it.
I moved to Arizona recently and it's like the only state without motorcycle helmet laws.. I'ts absolutely insane for me to see guys riding freeways on bikes with no helmets. Well, TO EACH HIS OWN... I guess. ..BUT, I noticed that people who don't feel the need to wear a helmet, are most likely people who wouldn't feel the need to not point a loaded gun at their face either.


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## Captain Snakebite (Aug 17, 2004)

*Hatten as landed as 9speed*

...


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## Datalogger (Jul 5, 2008)

PA does not require helmets on State roads either.

To be honest, I only wear a bike helmet on group rides and when freeriding/downhilling. I have no dependents though, otherwise I would probably wear it more often.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

Datalogger said:


> PA does not require helmets on State roads either.
> 
> To be honest, I only wear a bike helmet on group rides and when freeriding/downhilling. I have no dependents though, otherwise I would probably wear it more often.


Let's start a thread of pictures of ourselves riding w/o helmets. I know we all have at least one.


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

this thread is pointless, I find this more entretaining than hypoallergenic tissues


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## Captain Snakebite (Aug 17, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> this thread is pointless, I find this more entretaining than hypoallergenic tissues


HAHA best photo EVER!


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## massacre215 (Sep 14, 2009)

Id really like the guy who says helmets dont provide enough material to change the motion to "heat/sound/whatever" energy take a hammer hit his hand.... then take his other hand put a small amount of foam on top of his hand and hit it and tell me which one hurts more/ costs more at the hospital.. lol


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## massacre215 (Sep 14, 2009)

MOflow said:


> I'll put $10 down that 9speed has never used a condom. By his own logic, anything that could put a damper on the expirience isn't worth it. I mean, AIDS is no big deal right?


Besides theres not enough material there to change the whatever comes out of his d!ck to heat/sound/something


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

uh wow... so yea, there is documentation to back this argument up but i am not gonna look for it....
the design of a bicycle helmet is a single impact protection device... meaning cracked helmets, and helmets going all to pieces, them being too lightweight and not enough material to protect, blahlahblah... The DESIGN of the helmet is to protect your head when it hits the ground, hard... it is designed to do this by breaking apart and dissapating the energy through the destruction of the high density polystyrene, rather than the destruction of your skull. It is limited in its level of protection, yes. an impact at 60 mph, it will do very little to protect your head... that is why the helmets worn by downhillers, and motocross guys are larger, heavier and have more material in them. but yea, at 30 mph, your head stands a better chance of surviving the impact with a helmet, than without, hands down.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Iridethedirt said:


> uh wow... so yea, there is documentation to back this argument up but i am not gonna look for it....
> the design of a bicycle helmet is a single impact protection device... meaning cracked helmets, and helmets going all to pieces, them being too lightweight and not enough material to protect, blahlahblah... The DESIGN of the helmet is to protect your head when it hits the ground, hard... it is designed to do this by breaking apart and dissapating the energy through the destruction of the high density polystyrene, rather than the destruction of your skull. It is limited in its level of protection, yes. an impact at 60 mph, it will do very little to protect your head... that is why the helmets worn by downhillers, and motocross guys are larger, heavier and have more material in them. but yea, at 30 mph, your head stands a better chance of surviving the impact with a helmet, than without, hands down.


At 10mph maybe... but not 30mph... you're just making the science up.


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## illwill88 (Feb 16, 2009)

my theory= your a [email protected] b!tch if u wear skinny jeans and u like to take it in the a$$ everyday by your bros who ride bmx bikes and wear skinny pants and play gamecube and drink natties and listen to sh!t music and cut your wrists and fall and [email protected] your head up for not wearing helmets and rack there vag!nas on there seats that are pointed straight up. 

thank you and burn in hell u weird [email protected]






note= not all are like this but a select few.










no offense to anyone that does this



just stay the [email protected] away from me









:thumbsup:


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

this thread has now become legend....


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## kavika (Jul 18, 2009)

9speed, you should have had a helmet on when you were born, as you were obviously dropped on your head and now suffer from the permanent damage it has caused, even if you are afraid to admit it.


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## Noiseunderthebed (Sep 8, 2009)

9speed said:


> this thread has now become legend....


illusions of granduer...................

you'll never be a legend, just another statistic


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)




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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

I'm with 9speed! Screw helmets. I've been wasting my money all these years. 

That crash I had on Lower Joyride a few years ago that cracked my Mad Max II... Well I wasted my money on that lid cause my head would've taken all the impact!

(I should've read this thread when it started... Thanks for the memories!)


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

it doesn't take much to crack a helmet....


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## vermintrex (Jun 21, 2008)

9speed said:


> Geez.. no wonder they get away with rigging elections over there....


heh...that was pretty funny actually

that said...don't wear a helmet, I don't give a **** if you live or die.


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

9speed said:


> At 10mph maybe... but not 30mph... you're just making the science up.


Actually 9speed I am basing it off of my ten plus years riding, crashing.... Hearing stories, talking to my sister about her three years as a bike messenger and pro level mountain bike racer in the San Fran bay area, as well as her husband, a frame builder and pro level racer. They both knew people who wrecked badly, a couple died. Several got terrible concussions. One was my brother In law, wrecked while fully spun out in his big ring on a gnarly downhill with lots of rocks, and shadows that looked like rocks.. definatly going over 30 mph, probably closer to 40. He wrecked, endo, smacked his head, knocked out, woke up, and collected pieces of his helmet. It did what it was designed to, took enough energy out of the impact to slow the impact down enough to lessen the severity of the bruising to the brain when it sloshes forward and smacks the skull. 
My sister knew a guy who caught a wicked pothole on the street in San Fran going much much slower, endo, smacked his head, died. So 9speed, I wish you happy trails and only the mildest of concussions, remember, don't go to sleep, you might not wake up! I will wear my helmet, made of it's polystyrene, and I will wear my full face made of it's plastic and polystyrene, and I will not need dental surgery, or pressure relief holes drilled into my skull so the swelling brain matter from my severe concussion won't Fing kill me, because my helmet will reduce the impact just enough.... Pull out some more data on paper so I can wipe my a$$ with it, ride for a long time, with a lot of different folks and see what real world incidents tell you. 
Hah, the notion that if I endo and smash my face, helmet free into a freaking rock, vs my ultra light duty full face bell bmx/downhill helmet, my face will be no better off, well 9 speed, you are an idiot... So maybe the same helmet doesn't keep me alive if I compress my spinal column into a tree at 45 mph, but that is no reason to not wear one... Let's see, disfigured face, expensive dental surgery, and massive concussion, or, potential cracked jaw, mild concussion... Hmmm yea tough call... Are you brittish maybe? Bad teeth? Ugly mug? Nothing to speak of intellecually to protect with some sort of safety helmet? No because it's a government, and polystyrene industry conspiricy to keep us all looking goofy and buying polystyrene products... Don't you get it! Polystyrene has the highest paid government lobbyists!!! 
Yep, stupid to wear safety gear... Don't bother....


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## gemini6 (Apr 27, 2007)

Doesn't take much to crack a skull either ... or pose as a real rider and make up a BS profile so you can go trolling on forums while you sit alone in the dark all night...

Loser.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

gemini6 said:


> Doesn't take much to crack a skull either ... or pose as a real rider and make up a BS profile so you can go trolling on forums while you sit alone in the dark all night...
> 
> Loser.


sit alone in the dark all night check

loser check

troll no check....

all I am saying is helmets aren't much cop. but i understand the mind and thought police (all of you) would rather I just have the same opinion as you lot. and it is a bit like the twin towers in that regard.

accepted narratives and facts and notions.. often wrong.... check


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## Captain Snakebite (Aug 17, 2004)

*I guess 9speed wins*

...


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

*9speeds guide to arguing assanine points.*



9speed said:


> Come on guys... how often do you land on your head?
> 
> Why wear something all the time that offers limited protection, protection that is rarely ever tested?
> 
> ...


9speed is a master of the art of debating rediculous ideas, here are a few tips I have found in observing his genious.
Step 1: make totally insane statement, like " helmets only protect you from minor cuts and scrapes, but offer no protection from serious impact, and certainly none of the potential benefits are worth wearing a 'hot sweaty helmet' that makes you look like a panty wearing sissy boy". 
Step 2: ignore facts, this includes credible case studies published on the Internet, first hand accounts, second hand accounts, people with scientific backgrounds and degrees in physics, if you do not bother addressing these facts, then they cannot weaken the strong "weak materials do nothing/panty wearing pansies are the only ones who need them" argument.
Step 3: at no point in time should you allow logic and reason dictate anything you say, the crazier and more rediculous the better, you simply cannot reason fact based info with a crazy person who ignores the facts! 
These three simple steps will have you out trolling forums with unheard of success, and remeber, don't wear your helmet because whatever doesn't kill you, just makes you stronger... So strong you won't remember how to tie your own shoes.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

There hasn't been any credible case studies regarding helmets published on the Internet...

And certainly you haven't read the one or two not so credible studies that have.....


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

There hasn't been any credible case studies regarding helmets published on the Internet...

And certainly you haven't read the one or two not so credible studies that have.....


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

9speed said:


> There hasn't been any credible case studies regarding helmets published on the Internet...
> 
> And certainly you haven't read the one or two not so credible studies that have.....


http://www.iihs.org/research/fatality_facts_2008/bicycles.html
ther you go now shut your hole


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

9speed said:


> There hasn't been any credible case studies regarding helmets published on the Internet...
> 
> And certainly you haven't read the one or two not so credible studies that have.....


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

so does it even matter what kind of seat you have for DJ/urban riding if so whats reccomended?


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

blooregard said:


> so does it even matter what kind of seat you have for DJ/urban riding if so whats reccomended?


bacon


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

3 pages of gayness and bacon!!!!!!!!!!!


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## schneidie (Aug 30, 2008)

*Mtn. Biker123*

almost as good as the stuff gnarcore123 posts in the turner forum


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## sclarksons (Aug 6, 2008)

this thread is hateful for sure.


a helmet is a cheap insurance policy that may or may not pay off in certain crashes. I don't need a scientific study to prove that. I rode up on a friend who had crashed on a decomposed granite high speed off road section once, he was about thirty feet downhill from his bike, and he had a broken collar bone. He was dizzy for sure, disoriented, and his helmet (A Giro Xen) was CRUSHED on one side where it hit the ground during one of his tumbles. he did not have a scratch on his head. I walked with him to the road, pushing his bike and mine. I feel sure that had he not had it on, he would have been a bloody mess around that side of his head. Sure, some people do not need to wear helmets, and most people don't most of the time. They are only good to have a statistically small part of the time. EMTs have a name for cyclists who don't wear helmets. "Healthy organ donors." Me? I wear a Giro Xen, purchased a week after that friend's crash, and I ride within my limits (mostly.)


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## Reid Hollister (Apr 15, 2009)

There's a big difference between a full-face helmet and a regular mtb helmet. I really do feel that a normal mtb helmet doesn't do that much and thats why I don't wear one. I've never had a crash where it woulda helped. When I crash I just cover my head with elbows/shoulders (years of martial arts experience help a lot I think), though I have wrecked my elbows up pretty good. If I had the money I definitely would get a full face helmet to wear when I do jumps and when I start doing downhill next season I will definitely spring for one or at least rent one. 

Plus once u drop a helmet from past waist height, most of its shock protection is gone anyways and it should be replaced (according to the manufacturers anyways) and how many people don't actually follow this rule.


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

The main reason I wear a helmet for normal trail riding is due to trees rather than falling off. I've fallen off any hit my head doing downhill and jumps, but not XC.

I do ride in heavily wooded areas though, and have gone round a corner quickly into a low branch that although probably wouldn't have done any serious damage without the helmet, would defiantly have left me with a sore head.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I can't believe how flat out stupid so many of you are about wearing a helmet. It is cheap insurance and you really can't tell that you have one on. You go around with the mentality that it won't happen to me or that your a freaking tough guy, smart enough to cover up or some other dumb ass excuse. 

I have bumped, brushed, banged, tapped and scrapped my head many times while riding and most times I would have been fine without a helmet but it sure was nice having one on the few times I did hit my head. 

It sounds bad but I would like to see you morons crack your skull on a ride and end up with a injury and have a loved one read your dumbass comments on here. 

There is no right or wrong here but ignorance certainly can't get ruled out here. 

I could care less if you wear a helmet but I can't stand ignorant people and tough guys. 

Reid Hollister, your martial arts skills is a freaking classic.:madman: Your stupid. So stupid it is funny.


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## gbosbiker (Mar 10, 2009)

ok. i mtb and bmx. i wear skinny jeans (but mens skinnies) and they are the most comfortable pants i have every worn. most that i wear stretch, so they arent constricting. i wear them for everything from bmx to dh. never caught on the chainring (even slightly baggy would catch a big ring without a bash on it). skinny jeans doesnt mean emo. 

you guys think that skinny jeans and long hair means emo. its the style for the younger generation. just like bell-bottom jeans were in in the 80's and stuff. those looked retarded (different style) to me. as skinny jeans looks retarded to the older generation. 


for the helmet deal, its personal preference. some are smart and wear them. others dont. plain and simple. i dont wear a helmet when on urban/street runs. i take it easy on these, and i have never been put in a position wear i needed one. but i do wear one when on the mtn. too many low branches (for my height) and loose rocks to go otb on. 

for the seat deal. the lower it is, the more of an angle it has. it makes it more comfortable. when i raise my seat, i level it out more. that too is personal preference. peoples a$$s are different. and angled seat allows more leg movement. 

dont be ignorant because you were raised at a different time, and your styles are different. people wear what they want to wear, and dont judge them for that. if a guy wants to wear skinnies, let him. if a guy wears lyrica, let him. everyone wears what they want for a reason.

i love how a simple seat angle question brings out the worst of some on here, and it ends up going to bmx, trends, emos, and other sh*t we dont need to hate on. people are who they are. people who are ignorant are the haters. be open to change. it happens. get over it. 
/rant


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## peace_keeper1517 (Jul 6, 2008)

Why do you care any way, If they think they are cool let them be.


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## jpculp (Jul 11, 2009)

My helmet has save my head many times.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

love this thread.

:thumbsup: 

I will agree with 9speed that a helmet won't protect you from death, nothing will, but thats about all I'll agree with.

Like the armour I wear, it won't prevent injury, but reduce the chance of injury or reduce the total resulting injury from a crash, I've crashed where I was wearing armour, still tore up my knee and arms a little, but if I wasn't wearing anything, it would have been a lot worse.

A bike helmet won't protect you from everything, but it does reduce chance of injury when you do crash.

I like that extra 3/4"-1" or so of squishy stuff sharp rocks have to go through before they reach the painful squishy stuff in my head.

I don't think anyone here is foolish enough to believe that helmets/armour give you 100% guarantee that you won't get hurt/die etc when you crash, but you (9speed) are making your self look like a tool by claiming that they do nothing.

Note, I'm not a helmet nazi, I believe people should size up the risk of the activities they are doing based on their own skill and probability of failure.

I "upgrade" my protection based on how much risk I anticipate in an activity. I don't wear a helmet if I'm tootling around on my street or back yard tweaking drive trains for example to wearing full face helmet with a full complement of armour when I throw my self down mountains at mach chicken. Do I have the misconception that I'm now 100% protected in the event of a serious crash? No, I'm a rational adult after all (I hope), but I do know that they will help, other wise I wouldn't bother.

Next thing you'll tell me that that skimpy thin piece of leather I slip my hand into when I ride serves no purpose either...

Thanks for the laugh though!


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

hemets are like condoms you don't wear one and you will probably regret it:thumbsup:


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

Personally, before every ride I secure a nice fat meat helmet, and shave my scrotum.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

rdhfreethought said:


> Personally, before every ride I secure a nice fat meat helmet, and shave my scrotum.


lololololz


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

MOflow said:


> I'll put $10 down that 9speed has never used a condom. By his own logic, anything that could put a damper on the expirience isn't worth it. I mean, AIDS is no big deal right?


Well AIDS is exaggerated for sure. The fear of strangers and the fear of sex are some of the first fears or terrors we are subjected to, by the government, whilst young and impressionable school children. Unless you share needles, or have gay sex with many partners, the risk of AIDS is small. Likewise the risk of being abducted by a stranger is tiny... but it all sets us up for the fear and terror (control mechanisms) to come.

And whilst we are on the subject of sex, withdrawal is a GOOD form of birth-control and is as safe as condoms regarding unwanted pregnancy. Since they have now proven that there is no sperm in pre-ejaculate!!!

That should keep this thread spinning for a few more days lol.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2023.pdf


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

9speed said:


> http://www.cyclehelmets.org/papers/c2023.pdf


i cannot set fire to this it does me no good just like your posts


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

I admitadly only skim read that, but doesn't it essentially mention that in certain circumstances helmets can offer protection, and also that one of the areas of cycling in which helmets are most useful is off road. Incase you hadn't looked recently, this is a mtb forum.


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## Steven_Dukes (Dec 1, 2009)

Dheorl said:


> I've fallen off any hit my head doing downhill and jumps...


I would have never guessed.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Dheorl said:


> I admitadly only skim read that, but doesn't it essentially mention that in certain circumstances helmets can offer protection, and also that one of the areas of cycling in which helmets are most useful is off road. Incase you hadn't looked recently, this is a mtb forum.


And this has been the problem now for what? 3 pages 4?

People who don't understand that authors have bias. That words have meaning. That you can cherry pick your own understanding from those words. You've used the word most, which could be misleading. If anything that article is a little schizophrenic, appearing to have little faith in helmets one moment, and some faith in helmets the next. The article clearly suggests that one kind of impact likely to be seen on a mountain bike trail is the small-surface-area impact, the kind that might be sustained from impact with a tree or rock. The article explains why cycle helmets offer very limited protection against these small-surface-area impacts.

Of course a helmet offers protection. How much do they offer though and is it worth it?


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

It also says that because of the slower speeds they are more useful off road.

To me any protection that doesn't come with draw backs is worth it.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

condoms take away the feeling


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## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

boogenman said:


> condoms take away the feeling


Just keep telling yourself "she's to pretty to have aids"


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

giantsaam said:


> Just keep telling yourself "she's to pretty to have aids"


I always do :thumbsup:


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## nikhilrn (Nov 17, 2009)

*you guys should chill out.*

I have no idea why most of the people on this forum are bashing others that dont DRESS the same as they do?? I feel like people should do/wear whatever is comfortable and makes them enjoy it the most.

For example; I ride my bike every morning. While riding to the trail head I just light up mah joint so when im ready to ride I can do it with a nice buzz... plus by doing this, all the tools on the trail dont get on my nerves!

Overall, who cares what clothes you are wearing.. if youre riding a bike, youre probably chill. If you have a joint, youre even more chill.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

typically girl pant wearing weiners at the skate park or DJ's are not chill, they are flat out fruity pant wearing tools. I don't think the pants or other clothes makes them tools, I am pretty sure it is other stuff. 

I don't bash people if they don't dress the way I do, I mock people that wear clothes, makeup or have hair cuts that make them look like goofy Mother fukkers. 

I like to wear carhartt pants 

I love this thread:thumbsup: 

Does anyone out there know of a good hair dye?


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## Tobius (May 30, 2007)

9speed you must be a retard or English. Your comments only show your inexperience. The link speaks mostly of the changing standards and that a some people are of the opinion that cycle helmets offer inadequate protection. I've split helmets, cracked jaw pieces and and even broke a Bell V1 Pro in two at 40km/hr(looking at the cycle computer caused the crash). All of these crashes would have turned out different without a helmet. Sure I've had my bell rung but no serious brain injuries. I've witnessed numerous crashes at varied speeds, terrain and heights, on and off road with full face helmets to skate lids which resulted in many forms of injury, from simply being dazed for a moment to not having more than 10 seconds memory for 3 days. All had the potential to turn out differently if not wearing a helmet. I don't need a lab with aluminum anvils and data acquisition software, or you telling me a helmet doesn't reduce the chance of injury or death. Look at motorcycle helmets which are designed to take impacts on flat asphalt surfaces at speeds from 0-100+km/hr, but people get there brains scrambled all the time crashing their motos. You may be educated but you reek of inexperience.


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## joelalamo45 (Aug 3, 2006)

I find it funny that on a mtb forum, guys would give bmx'ers sh!t for being trendy. Get this through your head... sooo much that mtb guys are doing copies bmx... hook, line and sinker. Big wide bars, crazy colors, DIRT JUMPING, STREET... name one freestyle/dj trick that a mountain biker has invented. You can't. Jeez guys, lighten up.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

joe right.

we basically copycaters from bmx. but i dont see whats wrong with that. they both got 2 wheels. bmx been round so much longer that everything(basically) that could be thought of had been. so whats wrong with that?

and the skinny jean thing? i get why. i just dont care for it. 

a pair of 501s are just the right skinnny for me to never catch anything and dont need to be all spandex stretchy. 

do you guys here even think you call 501s skinny?


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

This thread is like Loveboat...it just keeps on sailing, providing weekly drama and intrigue, all delivered right to your couch.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

this thread needs more pics


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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

9speed said:


> "Safety conscious cyclists more likely to wear helmets...."
> 
> In other words, cycle helmets tend to be ridden by pansy girly men who don't have many accidents.


Sorry im a bit late on this one, actually very late, i agree with you that most people don't where helmets while just riding down the street, hell i don't wear a helmet when i ride down the road to the local trails, but when i get there i put on my full face and from experience i can tell you i could have died many times without that helmet on. Example: i didn't have enough speed on a wall ride made of plywood, slipped off, hit the ground and my head whipped back and slammed a rock. Whats worse is that i was alone, and nobody goes to the trails very often, maybe i wouldn't die from head trauma, but let's say i had internal bleeding or i couldn't move? That being said with my helmet ON i walked away without a headache.


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## 9speed (Aug 12, 2009)

Tobius said:


> 9speed you must be a retard or English. Your comments only show your inexperience. The link speaks mostly of the changing standards and that a some people are of the opinion that cycle helmets offer inadequate protection. I've split helmets, cracked jaw pieces and and even broke a Bell V1 Pro in two at 40km/hr(looking at the cycle computer caused the crash). All of these crashes would have turned out different without a helmet. Sure I've had my bell rung but no serious brain injuries. I've witnessed numerous crashes at varied speeds, terrain and heights, on and off road with full face helmets to skate lids which resulted in many forms of injury, from simply being dazed for a moment to not having more than 10 seconds memory for 3 days. All had the potential to turn out differently if not wearing a helmet. I don't need a lab with aluminum anvils and data acquisition software, or you telling me a helmet doesn't reduce the chance of injury or death. Look at motorcycle helmets which are designed to take impacts on flat asphalt surfaces at speeds from 0-100+km/hr, but people get there brains scrambled all the time crashing their motos. You may be educated but you reek of inexperience.


There is no science in your answer. Just anecdote.

I could wear a cheesecake on my head, in the event of an accident it would split. What does this prove? You only have to look at a cycling helmet to see what a compromise most are.

As for the original question....

I read in this months MBUK that dirt jumpers ride with the seat slightly up because it helps them grip it between the thighs during launch, should they wish to grip the bike with their thighs for stability... makes sense, after all, the seat is often nudged for stability by cyclists..


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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

9speed, are you really going to keep feeding everyone your B.S. logic??

Answer me this, would you rather not have a helmet on for a crash like this, oh, but you don't ride like that, do you?:skep:


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

ajd245246 said:


> 9speed, are you really going to keep feeding everyone your B.S. logic??
> 
> Answer me this, would you rather not have a helmet on for a crash like this, oh, but you don't ride like that, do you?:skep:


silly ajd245246]9 9speed rides cross country not downhill he climbs up the hills and wears formfitting spandex one piece kits you know stuff like that but that is a super horrible crash


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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

blooregard said:


> silly ajd245246]9 9speed rides cross country not downhill he climbs up the hills and wears formfitting spandex one piece kits you know stuff like that but that is a super horrible crash


yeaaa i know  :thumbsup:


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## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

I shouldn't waste my time responding to the troll, but I'm bored....
This thread was about seat postion. Not about tight jeans, emo whatever, or helmets.
So about seat position- I'm sure "9speed" runs his seat with the nose pointed sky-high so that he can gay emo sex every time he goes to sit down. Seriously, if you want to ride without a helmet, that's your choice. An absolutely idiotic, retarded choice, but your choice. Where you proved yourself to be a trolling moron is when you started telling everyone else that they are wrong for wearing helmets. Your statistics prove nothing. The statistics about "bicycle helmets" are for XC lids, not DH or DJ helmets. When I ride DH, I wear a DOT-approved MX helmet, not an XC lid or even an MTB full-face. No helmet can guarantee your safety- neither can a seatbelt or a condom, but all 3 of those items dramatically improve your chances, which is why I use them. If you choose not to use them, that's up to you, but you are a complete @$$hole for telling me and everyone else that we are stupid and wrong for wearing helmets. That's our choice, not yours. Get a life, you sad, pathetic, miserable loser.


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## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

*9speed must be emo...*

I shouldn't waste my time responding to the troll, but I'm bored....
This thread was about seat postion. Not about tight jeans, emo whatever, or helmets.
So about seat position- I'm sure "9speed" runs his seat with the nose pointed sky-high so that he can have gay emo sex every time he goes to sit down. Seriously, if you want to ride without a helmet, that's your choice. An absolutely idiotic, retarded choice, but your choice. Where you proved yourself to be a trolling moron is when you started telling everyone else that they are wrong for wearing helmets. Your statistics prove nothing. The statistics about "bicycle helmets" are for XC lids, not DH or DJ helmets. When I ride DH, I wear a DOT-approved MX helmet, not an XC lid or even an MTB full-face. No helmet can guarantee your safety- neither can a seatbelt or a condom, but all 3 of those items dramatically improve your chances, which is why I use them. If you choose not to use them, that's up to you, but you are a complete @$$hole for telling me and everyone else that we are stupid and wrong for wearing helmets. That's our choice, not yours. Get a life, you sad, pathetic, miserable loser.


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## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

You need some:


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)




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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

oh heres a second view for you 9speed


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

boogenman said:


>


this is why you wear gloves while you mtb as well


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

:thumbsup:


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## ReductiMat (Jun 3, 2008)

Is 9Speed a teenager?


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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

ReductiMat said:


> Is 9Speed a teenager?


Now let's not point fingers at teenagers :nono: , I happen to be one, but do know how thick headed we often are  
However I hope 9speed is a teenager because I can't imagine a grown adult thinking that way.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

ajd245246 said:


> Now let's not point fingers at teenagers :nono: , I happen to be one, but do know how thick headed we often are
> However I hope 9speed is a teenager because I can't imagine a grown adult thinking that way.


same here and quite honestly i would like to live my life long enough to the point where i do not:thumbsup:


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## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

Thanks, guys. Glad to hear that some who are 9speeds age are not as stupid or clueless as he is. There is hope for the future generations! Now can we please put this troll-fest of a thread in the recycle bin?


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

so gay


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## Dheorl (Oct 18, 2008)

You can't be mean about all converse. Black (or dark sinlge colour) and white all stars are awsome. You can be mean about the rest.


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## blooregard (Nov 1, 2009)

Dheorl said:


> You can't be mean about all converse. Black (or dark sinlge colour) and white all stars are awsome. You can be mean about the rest.


true true also messenger bags are th3 SH!T i went to new york city holy balls the bike messengers are crazy man but i do agree that if you are not a bike messenger or something else like that then it is totaly overplayed


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

It should the old army fatigue green bag that screams emo gayness. unlike a real messenger bag, there is no use for a old dank ass army bag. They are kind of pointless like getting the hair on the back of your head cut while you leave the front long so it covers your eyes and you can't see $hit


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## Aust95 (Apr 24, 2008)

essenmeinstuff said:


> love this thread.
> 
> :thumbsup:
> 
> I will agree with 9speed that a helmet won't protect you from death, nothing will, but thats about all I'll agree with.


Bicycle helmet efficacy: a meta-analysis. 
AU Attewell RG; Glase K; McFadden M 
SO Accid Anal Prev 2001 May;33(3):345-52.

Bicycle helmet efficacy was quantified using a formal meta-analytic approach based on peer-reviewed studies. Only those studies with individual injury and helmet use data were included. Based on studies from several countries published in the period 1987-1998, the summary odds ratio estimate for efficacy is 0.40 (95% confidence interval 0.29, 0.55) for head injury, 0.42 (0.26, 0.67) for brain injury, 0.53 (0.39, 0.73) for facial injury and 0.27 (0.10, 0.71) for fatal injury. This indicates a statistically significant protective effect of helmets. Three studies provided neck injury results that were unfavourable to helmets with a summary estimate of 1.36 (1.00, 1.86), but this result may not be applicable to the lighter helmets currently in use. *In conclusion, the evidence is clear that bicycle helmets prevent serious injury and even death.* Despite this, the use of helmets is sub-optimal. Helmet use for all riders should be further encouraged to the extent that it is uniformly accepted and analogous to the use of seat belts by motor vehicle occupants.

AD Covance Pty Ltd, Ainslie, ACT, Australia. [email protected] 
PMID 11235796


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## Aust95 (Apr 24, 2008)

40 
TI Injury patterns in cyclists attending an accident and emergency department: a comparison of helmet wearers and non-wearers. 
AU Maimaris C; Summers CL; Browning C; Palmer CR 
SO BMJ 1994 Jun 11;308(6943):1537-40.

OBJECTIVES--To study circumstances of bicycle accidents and nature of injuries sustained and to determine effect of safety helmets on pattern of injuries. DESIGN--Prospective study of patients with cycle related injuries. SETTING--Accident and emergency department of teaching hospital. SUBJECTS--1040 patients with complete data presenting to the department in one year with cycle related injuries, of whom 114 had worn cycle helmets when accident occurred. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES--Type of accident and nature and distribution of injuries among patients with and without safety helmets. RESULTS--There were no significant differences between the two groups with respect to type of accident or nature and distribution of injuries other than those to the head. Head injury was sustained by 4/114 (4%) of helmet wearers compared with 100/928 (11%) of non-wearers (P = 0.023). Significantly more children wore helmets (50/309 (16%)) than did adults (64/731 (9%)) (P<0.001). The incidence of head injuries sustained in accidents involving motor vehicles (52/288 (18%)) was significantly higher than in those not involving motor vehicles (52/754 (7%)) (chi 2 = 28.9, P<0.0001). Multiple logistic regression analysis of probability of sustaining a head injury showed that only two variables were significant: helmet use and involvement of a motor vehicle. Mutually adjusted odds ratios showed a risk factor of 2.95 (95% confidence interval 1.95 to 4.47, P<0.0001) for accidents involving a motor vehicle and a protective factor of 3.25 (1.17 to 9.06, P = 0.024) for wearing a helmet. *CONCLUSION--The findings suggest an increased risk of sustaining head injury in a bicycle accident when a motor vehicle is involved and confirm protective effect of helmet wearing for any bicycle accident. *

AD Accident and Emergency Department, Addenbrooke's Hospital, Cambridge. 
PMID 8019309

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

41 
TI A case-control study of the effectiveness of bicycle safety helmets. 
AU Thompson RS; Rivara FP; Thompson DC 
SO N Engl J Med 1989 May 25;320(21):1361-7.

Bicycling accidents cause many serious injuries and, in the United States, about 1300 deaths per year, mainly from head injuries. Safety helmets are widely recommended for cyclists, but convincing evidence of their effectiveness is lacking. Over one year we conducted a case-control study in which the case patients were 235 persons with head injuries received while bicycling, who sought emergency care at one of five hospitals. One control group consisted of 433 persons who received emergency care at the same hospitals for bicycling injuries not involving the head. A second control group consisted of 558 members of a large health maintenance organization who had had bicycling accidents during the previous year. Seven percent of the case patients were wearing helmets at the time of their head injuries, as compared with 24 percent of the emergency room controls and 23 percent of the second control group. Of the 99 cyclists with serious brain injury only 4 percent wore helmets. In regression analyses to control for age, sex, income, education, cycling experience, and the severity of the accident, we found that riders with helmets had an 85 percent reduction in their risk of head injury (odds ratio, 0.15; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.07 to 0.29) and an 88 percent reduction in their risk of brain injury (odds ratio, 0.12; 95 percent confidence interval, 0.04 to 0.40). *We conclude that bicycle safety helmets are highly effective in preventing head injury. *Helmets are particularly important for children, since they suffer the majority of serious head injuries from bicycling accidents.

AD Center for Health Studies, Group Health Cooperative of Puget Sound, Seattle, WA 98121. 
PMID 2716781

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

42 
TI Effectiveness of bicycle safety helmets in preventing head injuries. A case-control study. 
AU Thompson DC; Rivara FP; Thompson RS 
SO JAMA 1996 Dec 25;276(24):1968-73.

OBJECTIVES: To examine the protective effectiveness of bicycle helmets in 4 different age groups of bicyclists, in crashes involving motor vehicles, and by helmet type and certification standards. RESEARCH DESIGN: Prospective case-control study SETTING: Emergency departments (EDs) in 7 Seattle, Wash, area hospitals between March 1, 1992, and August 31, 1994. PARTICIPANTS: Case subjects were all bicyclists treated in EDs for head injuries, all who were hospitalized, and all who died at the scene. Control subjects were bicyclists treated for nonhead injuries. MAIN RESULTS: There were 3390 injured bicyclists in the study; 29% of cases and 56% of controls were helmeted. Risk of head injury in helmeted vs unhelmeted cyclists adjusted for age and motor vehicle involvement indicate a protective effect of 69% to 74% for helmets for 3 different categories of head injury: any head injury (odds ratio [OR], 0.31; 95% confidence interval [CI], 0.26-0.37), brain injury (OR, 0.35; 95% CI, 0.25-0.48), or severe brain injury (OR, 0.26; 95% CI, 0.14-0.48). Adjusted ORs for each of 4 age groups (<6 y, 6-12 y, 13-19 y, and>or = 20 years) indicate similar levels of helmet protection by age (OR range, 0.27-0.40). Helmets were equally effective in crashes involving motor vehicles (OR, 0.31; 95% CI, 0.20-0.48) and those not involving motor vehicles (OR, 0.32; 95% CI, 0.20-0.39). There was no effect modification by age or motor vehicle involvement (P=.7 and P=.3). No significant differences were found for the protective effect of hard-shell, thin-shell, or no-shell helmets (P=.5). *CONCLUSIONS: Bicycle helmets, regardless of type, provide substantial protection against head injuries for cyclists of all ages involved in crashes, including crashes involving motor vehicles. 
*
AD Harborview Injury Prevention and Research Center, Seattle, WA 98104-2499, USA. [email protected] 
PMID 8971066

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

43 
TI Effectiveness of bicycle helmets in preventing head injury in children: case-control study. 
AU Thomas S; Acton C; Nixon J; Battistutta D; Pitt WR; Clark R 
SO BMJ 1994 Jan 15;308(6922):173-6.

OBJECTIVE--To examine the risk of injury to the head and the effect of wearing helmets in bicycle accidents among children. DESIGN--Case-control study by questionnaire completed by the children and their carers. SETTING--Two large children's hospitals in Brisbane, Australia. SUBJECT--445 children presenting with bicycle related injuries during 15 April 1991 to 30 June 1992. The cases comprised 102 children who had sustained injury to the upper head including the skull, forehead and scalp or loss of consciousness. The controls were 278 cyclists presenting with injuries other than to the head or face. A further 65 children with injuries to the face were considered as an extra comparison group. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES--Cause and type of injury, wearing of helmet. RESULTS--Most children (230) were injured after losing control and falling from their bicycle. Only 31 had contact with another moving vehicle. Children with head injury were significantly more likely to have made contact with a moving vehicle than control children (19 (19%) v 12 (4%), P<0.001). Head injuries were more likely to occur on paved surfaces than on grass, gravel, or dirt. Wearing a helmet reduced the risk of head injury by 63% (95% confidence interval 34% to 80%) and of loss of consciousness by 86% (62% to 95%). *CONCLUSIONS--The risk of head injury in bicycle accidents is reduced among children wearing a helmet. Current helmet design maximises protection in the type of accident most commonly occurring in this study. Legislation enforcing helmet use among children should be considered.*

AD Epidemiology Unit, Queensland Institute of Medical Research, Herston, Australia. 
PMID 8312768

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

44 
TI A prospective analysis of injury severity among helmeted and nonhelmeted bicyclists involved in collisions with motor vehicles. 
AU Spaite DW; Murphy M; Criss EA; Valenzuela TD; Meislin HW 
SO J Trauma 1991 Nov;31(11):1510-6.

To evaluate the impact of helmet use on injury severity, patient information was prospectively obtained for all bicyclists involved in collisions with motor vehicles seen at a level-I trauma center from January 1986 to January 1989. Two hundred ninety-eight patients were evaluated; in 284 (95.3%, study group) cases there was documentation of helmet use or nonuse. One hundred sixteen patients (40.9%) wore helmets and 168 (59.1%) did not. One hundred ninety-nine patients (70.1%) had an ISS less than 15, while 85 (29.9%) were severely injured (ISS greater than 15). Only 5.2% of helmet users (6/116) had an ISS greater than 15 compared with 47.0% (79/168) of nonusers (p less than 0.0001). The mean ISS for helmet users was 3.8 compared with 18.0 for nonusers (p less than 0.0001). Mortality was higher for nonusers (10/168, 6.0%) than for helmet users (1/116, 0.9%; p less than 0.025). A striking finding was noted when the group of patients without major head injuries (246) was analyzed separately. Helmet users in this group still had a much lower mean ISS (3.6 vs. 12.9, p less than 0.001) and were much less likely to have an ISS greater than 15 (4.4% vs. 32.1%, p less than 0.0001) than were nonusers. *In this group, 42 of 47 patients with an ISS greater than 15 (89.4%) were not wearing helmets. **We conclude that helmet nonuse is strongly associated with severe injuries in this study population.* This is true even when the patients without major head injuries are analyzed as a group; a finding to our knowledge not previously described.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

AD Department of Surgery, College of Medicine, University of Arizona, Tucson. 
PMID 1942172

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45 
TI Helmets for preventing head and facial injuries in bicyclists. 
AU Thompson DC; Rivara FP; Thompson R 
SO Cochrane Database Syst Rev 2000;(2):CD001855.

BACKGROUND: Each year, in the United states, approximately 900 persons die from injuries due to bicycle crashes and over 500,000 persons are treated in emergency departments. Head injury is by far the greatest risk posed to bicyclists, comprising one-third of emergency department visits, two-thirds of hospital admissions, and three-fourths of deaths. Facial injuries to cyclists occur at a rate nearly identical to that of head injuries. Although it makes inherent sense that helmets would be protective against head injury, establishing the real-world effectiveness of helmets is important. A number of case-control studies have been conducted demonstrating the effectiveness of bicycle helmets. Because of the magnitude of the problem and the potential effectiveness of bicycle helmets, the objective of this review is to determine whether bicycle helmets reduce head, brain and facial injury for bicyclists of all ages involved in a bicycle crash or fall. OBJECTIVES: To determine whether bicycle helmets reduce head, brain and facial injury for bicyclists of all ages involved in a bicycle crash or fall. SEARCH STRATEGY: We searched The Cochrane Controlled Trials Register, MEDLINE, EMBASE, Sport, ERIC, NTIS, Expanded Academic Index, CINAHL, PsycINFO, Occupational Safety and Health, and Dissertations Abstracts. We checked reference lists of past reviews and review articles, studies from government agencies in the United States, Europe and Australia, and contacted colleagues from the International Society for Child and Adolescent Injury Prevention, World Injury Network, CDC funded Injury Control and Research Centers, and staff in injury research agencies around the world. SELECTION CRITERIA: Controlled studies that evaluated the effect of helmet use in a population of bicyclists who had experienced a crash. We required that studies have complete outcome ascertainment, accurate exposure measurement, appropriate selection of the comparison group and elimination or control of factors such as selection bias, observation bias and confounding. DATA COLLECTION AND ANALYSIS: Five published studies met the selection criteria. Two abstractors using a standard abstraction form independently abstracted data. Odds ratios with 95% CI were calculated for the protective effect of helmet for head and facial injuries. Study results are presented individually. Head and brain injury results were also summarized using meta-analysis techniques. MAIN RESULTS: No randomized controlled trials were found. This review identified five well conducted case control studies which met our selection criteria. Helmets provide a 63%-88% reduction in the risk of head, brain and severe brain injury for all ages of bicyclists. Helmets provide equal levels of protection for crashes involving motor vehicles (69%) and crashes from all other causes (68%). Injuries to the upper and mid facial areas are reduced 65%.* REVIEWER'S CONCLUSIONS: Helmets reduce bicycle-related head and facial injuries for bicyclists of all ages involved in all types of crashes including those involving motor vehicles. *

AD Pediatrics; Harborview Injury Prevention&Research Center, University of Washington, Box 359960, 325 Ninth Avenue, Seattle, WA 98104, USA. [email protected] 
PMID 10796827

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46 
TI The effectiveness of bicyclist helmets: a study of 1710 casualties. 
AU McDermott FT; Lane JC; Brazenor GA; Debney EA 
SO J Trauma 1993 Jun;34(6):834-44; discussion 844-5.

During the 1980s, a sustained campaign increased the rates of helmet use of Victorian bicyclists. The efficacy of helmet use was evaluated by comparison of crashes and injuries (AIS-1985) in 366 helmeted (261 Australian Standard approved and 105 non-approved) and 1344 unhelmeted casualties treated from 1987 through 1989 at Melbourne and Geelong hospitals or dying before hospitalization. Head injury (HI) occurred in 21.1% of wearers of approved helmets and in 34.8% of non-wearers (p<0.001). The AIS scores were decreased for wearers of approved helmets (p<0.001), face injuries were reduced (p<0.01), and extremity/pelvic girdle injuries increased (p<0.001) and the overall risk of HI was reduced by at least 39% and face injury by 28%. *When casualties with dislodged helmets were excluded, HI was reduced 45% by approved helmets. Head injury reduction by helmets, although substantial, was less than that found in a similar study in Seattle, Washington. * 
AD Department of Surgery, Monash University Medical School, Alfred Hospital, Melbourne, Australia. 
PMID 8315679


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)

I read none of that. 












Bacon


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## Cru Jones (Aug 10, 2006)

lol at this thread. mtbretarded ftw.


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## amish_matt (Aug 18, 2006)

What did you expect, this isn't Ridemonkey.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

amish_matt said:


> What did you expect, this isn't Ridemonkey.


http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228091


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## Kortface (Sep 24, 2008)

carrot_top said:


> Trends will always be around. Its not like there werent some pretty weird ones back then too (think cross dressing rock bands, parachute pants, neon (which seems to be coming back too))....and while some people can come up with reasons explaining some of these trends, i cant seem to find any practicality in this......


What is the 2nd dude on the right grabbing??? lol!!

.


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## RANGERRANDY90650 (Dec 31, 2009)

9speed said:


> No they really don't. At all. The research proves this. Cycle helmets do not prevent many if any deaths. Indeed the standards the helmets have to adhere to don't reqquire this condition is met. A basic understanding of science and engineering would enable you to see the cycle helmet for what it really is. A plastic hat that will prevent cuts in some accidents yet offers very limited protection agaist serious impact.


I have to ask, Just what type of helmets are you talking about. Because certainly the reg bike helmet isn't going to protect crap. A Protec or a full face helmet will definitely provide protection.


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## boogenman (Sep 22, 2006)




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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

amish_matt said:


> What did you expect, this isn't Ridemonkey.


Ridemonkey is gayer than aids.

9Speed: I hope you fall on your head very badly in the near future, I really do.


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## Emperor87 (Jan 30, 2010)

Nick_M2R said:


> Illl also add to the question, why do some of them wear skinny jeans, emo haircuts, and make em selves look like complete wankers? And why don't these people wear helmets?
> (note, I'm not saying everyone in this riding catagory are like this, only some are)


lmao...its so true. everytime I goto the bmx park near me i'm one of the only guys without skinny jeans, and im one of the few with a helmet and normal non emo hair cut...lol theyre so lame.


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