# Lights shootout comments



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-introduction/

fc


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..


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## striegel (Dec 24, 2007)

Suggested changes to one paragraph of the article:

"With the combination of LEDs, lithium batteries, better electronics and chargers, this new crop of lights promises to deliver a much better and safer night riding experience."


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Flyer said:


> Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..


Yeah... I have dual, side by side beam pattern rollovers even. Super geeky!

I'll send you a secret link to the beam pattern shots since you are one of the premier contributors here and I could use the feedback.

fc


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

It would be a pleasure to help, francois. You have transcended basic beamshots- that's very impressive.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Looks really interesting - I am clicking on everything in there to find comparisons on a Jet 20W VS Niterider HID VS Lupine Betty........



francois said:


> Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.
> 
> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-introduction/
> 
> fc


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Looking good. I won't check for typos, because that would be asking a fish to walk on land. But the info is good - I don't necessarily agree with everything, but there's nothing I would object to (and if we all thought the same, then we should have had world peace by now). Great work!

Cheers,

Tom


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## michaelsnead (Aug 31, 2005)

Flyer said:


> Great start, francois. However, you are such a tease..


Hi Flyer,

I agree about the tease part! That said, it's all great information and I'm anxious to see more of it.

Thanks,

Michael:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jan 4, 2008)

Love it, Very interesting reading and I'm glad DIY lights will be encluded. 
One small thing though, leds are chips and not bulbs.


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## BrooklynMachine (Sep 4, 2007)

we're very, very excited about this test. Thanks a ton!


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

It's looking really good with clean page-layout and very effective writing. I'll check back each day for new reviews.

By the way, a LED used in bike lights is contained within a bulb. There is a chip (Light Emitting Diode) contained within the bulb. So the use of the word "lamp" or "bulb" is still accurate though the LED itself is not a bulb. It is a diode that emits light when "powered up" in a circuit.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm eager to read more reviews. Can you please put the "Light Price Claimed Lumens" data in a table so it is more readable?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Knog is up. Flyer... proofread pls.

fc


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## SquidBuzz (Jan 6, 2007)

No Princeton Tech Lights to be compared?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

SquidBuzz said:


> No Princeton Tech Lights to be compared?


These are coming. 2 models arriving today...

fc


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## striegel (Dec 24, 2007)

Suggestions:

In the first paragraph, instead of simply saying, "a nice lighthead.", I think you should be more specific, saying something like "It features a nicely styled, single lighthead with three LEDs."

Second paragraph -- instead of, "Each of the three LEDs come with their own switch that operates independently.", it should read, "Each of the three LEDs comes with its own switch that operates independently."

Maybe you could be more descriptive of the materials too. Is that an anodized aluminum front bezel? Is the back molded of solid plastic with a rubbery feel? That integrated rubbery band can be a plus and a minus.

In the Bottom Line section -- instead of, "There’s a lot of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, it’s not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also, some of the design issues like the switch hold back its trail usability.", try the following, "There are lots of light levels and the flash mode works well for commuters. But on the trail, it’s not quite bright enough and some usability issues hold it back. The amount of light the rider gets for the money is not very high. Also some of the design issues, like the switches, limit its trail usability."


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

striegel said:


> Suggestions:
> 
> In the first paragraph, instead of simply saying, "a nice lighthead.", I think you should be more specific, saying something like "It features a nicely styled, single lighthead with three LEDs."
> 
> ...


Beauty. I will incorporate these changes.

I'll also add in my light meter readings. At first, I thought they're not relevant until the full set is presented but I can sa it was nth out 25. And state what was right in front of it and behind it in terms of brightness.

fc


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Prefer responses via PM, email, or this thread? I emailed you already.


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## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

All I can say is ....hurry! I'm waiting to see the results before pulling the trigger on new lights!

The bike light manufacturing industry had better take notice of this shootout and use it as a way to improve their products. If they don't, they my be left in the dark!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Flyer said:


> Prefer responses via PM, email, or this thread? I emailed you already.


Please PM it to me or post it here. My email is broke! Big norcal storm.

fc


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## striegel (Dec 24, 2007)

Correction to latest edit:

"...into the light headThe first two LEDs..." needs a period and space after head.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

You should put them each on their own page, or you should at least provide links with anchors in the page. Otherwise it will take a lot of scrolling to get where you want to be.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Also, I'm not sure I undestand this part in the Ayup review:

"Light Output Measurements:

The narrow helmet mount measured a 16 and the wider bar light measured a 17. The closest competitors are the Knog 605 at 16 and the Exposure Race Maxx at 24."


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> You should put them each on their own page, or you should at least provide links with anchors in the page. Otherwise it will take a lot of scrolling to get where you want to be.


done! good suggestion.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Also, I'm not sure I undestand this part in the Ayup review:
> 
> "Light Output Measurements:
> 
> The narrow helmet mount measured a 16 and the wider bar light measured a 17. The closest competitors are the Knog 605 at 16 and the Exposure Race Maxx at 24."


That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.

The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.










Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"> [TR] [TD]Light[/TD] [TD]Price[/TD] [TD]Claimed Lumens[/TD] [TD]Ambient Lux[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light and Motion Vega[/TD] [TD]$175[/TD] [TD]75[/TD] [TD]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Cateye Tripleshot[/TD] [TD]$330[/TD] [TD]130[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light and Motion Stella 180L[/TD] [TD]$300[/TD] [TD]180[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Minewt.X2[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Joystick Maxx[/TD] [TD]$250[/TD] [TD]240[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Levin Brightstar[/TD] [TD]$270[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]15[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ayup helmet[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]280[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 200L [/TD] [TD]$249[/TD] [TD]200[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Knog 605[/TD] [TD]$399[/TD] [TD]300[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ayup bar (regular kit)[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]280[/TD] [TD]17[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Race Maxx[/TD] [TD]$350[/TD] [TD]480[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BR Lights C2.1H[/TD] [TD]$330[/TD] [TD]410[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BR Lights Jeni H[/TD] [TD]$299[/TD] [TD]410[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Enduro Maxx[/TD] [TD]$450[/TD] [TD]720[/TD] [TD]30[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID[/TD] [TD]$500[/TD] [TD]675[/TD] [TD]30[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 200L Dual[/TD] [TD]$349[/TD] [TD]400[/TD] [TD]32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 600-LI-4C[/TD] [TD]$399[/TD] [TD]600[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light On Expedition 1000[/TD] [TD]$800[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Trinewt[/TD] [TD]$500[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jet Lites Phantom Halogen[/TD] [TD]$295[/TD] [TD]675[/TD] [TD]44[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lupine Betty 12[/TD] [TD]$1,185[/TD] [TD]1400[/TD] [TD]65[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

I wonder what effect, if any, the color temperature has on the meter.

That Jet is intriguing.



francois said:


> That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.
> 
> The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.
> 
> ...


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## david 290 (May 7, 2006)

*rearding meter mesurements,*

hello,

igot the genaral idea, i understand that obveiously 30 is more lux light than 5,

but this still does not tell me, what i think would be more useful or helpful info,

is you aim a light on the wall about five feet from the wall and mesure the bright

hotspot, how many lumens bright, the brightest part of the beam is, and also

mesure if possible exactly how many lumens of light is actully really comeing out

of a light,

i bet 200L is,nt coming out of the 200L minus optic loss, i reackon problebly more

like 180 - 185 lumens,

can you clear this up francois,

great stuff well done, keep up the good work, :thumbsup:

thanks,


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

david 290 said:


> hello,
> 
> igot the genaral idea, i understand that obveiously 30 is more lux light than 5,
> 
> ...


forget about lumens for a second, hard to convert lumens to lux. if you can use the lux as a based for all the testing, then lux would be your number. most manufacture lumens are over inflated anyways. lux meter reading against the ceiling doesn't tell you where the bright spot are or how bright is the center. that is what beam shot photo are for, photo tells you where is brightest spot is and beam pattern is. What he measure is the overall light output after the lens against a ceiling in a dark room. A single spot led can be as bright as 12 spot led at the light meter at one inch distance. now the interesting part, if you change the same brand len from spot to flood. the lux reading the about the same against the ceiling. It would be interesting to see the differenet brand's HID into comparsion also. if you would really like to see the beam pattern on a computer graph, then check this betty, wilma, 600L out:
http://acidinmylegs.blogspot.com/se...-max=2008-01-01T00:00:00-08:00&max-results=50


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

francois said:


> The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.


Colour issues aside, this is a nice way to compare relative outputs. The light meter has an incident dome, which integrates all the light reaching it from a 180 deg view. Thus as long as the geometry is identical for all lights, you can get an idea of how total light output compares with each unit, regardless of beam pattern and hot spots. It's like using an integrating sphere, only you are using the inside of the garage instead(which isn't perfectly uniform or calibrated, but good to a first approximation).

The only problem is that it is not repeatable by someone else (or somewhere else). But that shouldn't be big issue.

Nice work, interesting data!


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## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

great work francois :thumbsup:

any chance on getting an Adventure Lighting Products "iBlast!" in the shootout ?~?


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> I wonder what effect, if any, the color temperature has on the meter.
> 
> That Jet is intriguing.


Here is another twist to think about, I have a old 6v 15w halogen with 6v NiMH fully charge used 20 times that read 4lux on the light meter. remember that each dark room condition is different, so lux reading is different in their own testing enviroment, but here is a base for your thought. with 7.2li-ion battery, the 6v 15w now reads 18.8 lux. so I'm sure that JET halogen is over volted with shorter bulb life. but by how much is the question. I'm trying to borrow a 600L, so there is a baseline to compare to Francois's test.

my lux meter test: halogen bulb life is unknow at higher voltage.

6vNiMH 6v15w halogen 4lux baseline
7.2 Li-ion 6v15w halogen 18.8lux
11.v li-ion 6v 15w halogen bright 0.1 sec, stupid, eh?
7.2 li-ion 12v 20w halogen 2.8lux
11.1v li-ion 12v 20w halogen 14.5lux
14.8v li-ion 12v 20w halogen 35.5lux
niterider li-ion flight HID/led 11.5lux
old 2 year HID 13.2v nimh niterider 23 lux
30w hid trail tech on 11.1v li-ion 66lux
mx power 3-cree 23lux
ultrafire wf-500 3-cree 25lux
trailtech HID 16.5lux
niterider 13.2niMH cyclone HID/led 17.3lux
6v 4 led 500ma 24lux
7.2v li-ion 4 led 500ma 27.5lux
6v NiMH 4 led 750ma 10.3lux circuit that take 9-18v power
7.2v li-ion 4 led 750ma 25lux
11.1v li-ion 4 led 750ma 37lux
14.8v li-ion 4 led 750ma 37lux.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

itsdoable said:


> Thus as long as the geometry is identical for all lights, you can get an idea of how total light output compares with each unit, regardless of beam pattern and hot spots.


Good feedback again.

Thinking about what you said and looking at the photo, it seems some lights are taller than other and could be blocking some light. I should lower the light to the meter level. I'll check if this changes any of the data.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

All Mountain said:


> great work francois :thumbsup:
> 
> any chance on getting an Adventure Lighting Products "iBlast!" in the shootout ?~?


Sure, New Zealand company Iblaast right? I'll contact them and see what happens.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ayup review is up with some comments from the manufacturer as well.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/ayup-regular-kit/

fc


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for confirming what I have had going in my mind for the last 5 years using the Jet Halogen - a very good light for a reasonable price.

Now I just need to get some new li-ion cells for it! :thumbsup:



francois said:


> Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

006_007 said:


> Thanks for confirming what I have had going in my mind for the last 5 years using the Jet Halogen - a very good light for a reasonable price.
> 
> Now I just need to get some new li-ion cells for it! :thumbsup:


So, Halogen is not dead. Is HID dead?


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## heatstroke (Jul 1, 2003)

Not sure about the approach of measuring the "reflected" lux reading at the meter. 
Think about this : 
If you had a really wide flood versus a really spot light aimed at a very reflective surface.
Since lux is lumens / watt, the measrment of reflected light at the lux meter would be dependant on how spotty the light is and the "reflectance" of the surface. So I do not think this is a good approach. 

Maybe it would be better to measure directly the lux at X meters at a number of angles. 0 degrees, 10 , 25, 45, 60, 90 . 
Then you can plot the curves to show the relative intensity of the different lights. Sorry - more measurements but maybe then you could intergate the curve to calculate lumens ? 
Some CPF guru could probably pitch in here ?


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The Phantom-Starfire combo is still one of the best out there. It's not sexy or easy being halogen but they get the job done and shame a lot of HIDs and LEDs in the process.

EDIT- If I had to give up my Lupines, I'd probably go back to my Jet Phantom and add a Starfire or two (just for good measure) on the bar. I really like the color of that beam and the reach and width is also impressive. Hats off to Jet Lites for creating such a classic.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Not sure - am intending to skip it altogether though and get some LED to go along with my halogens.....



richwolf said:


> So, Halogen is not dead. Is HID dead?


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The thing about HID is that not everyone made a really good one. The Edison and ARC were the best I have seen in the US while HID technologies and Vicious Power made stunning HIDs but were never really available here. Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.

My main problem with them was the high cost of replacement bulbs but the ones I mentioned had light quality that was hard to beat. The ARC is so popular and a fantastic light but it was the dimmest one. Nite Rider just sells whatever they churn out, Lume never caught on with their narrow beam, and Jet did okay but I think their Halogens sold the best for them.

I think we will see HID's effective demise by 2009 though the few good ones still produce light quality hard to beat till you get to the really good LEDs. Halogens will be around for a long time but HIDs will probably fade away from the bike scene as HID bike-light manufacturers focus on LEDs in 2008 and 2009.

HIDs will still rule in high-end cars for several years. In that size, they are unbeatable right now and produce the best light of all.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

heatstroke said:


> Not sure about the approach of measuring the "reflected" lux reading at the meter.
> Think about this :
> If you had a really wide flood versus a really spot light aimed at a very reflective surface.
> Since lux is lumens / watt, the measrment of reflected light at the lux meter would be dependant on how spotty the light is and the "reflectance" of the surface. So I do not think this is a good approach.
> ...


The beauty of the ambient Lux reading is it's simple and consistent. Also, the results verify what I observe and what the beam pattern photos show. The readings don't necessarily agree with the manufacturer lumen claims which is a key finding.

The direct lux measurements described above is useful I'm sure but I don't have the extra many hours. And the bigger problem is they're pretty inconsistent. A reading at 10 degrees from 1 meter is all over the map just moving the light meter a millimeter either way.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Flyer said:


> The thing about HID is that not everyone made a really good one. The Edison and ARC were the best I have seen in the US while HID technologies and Vicious Power made stunning HIDs but were never really available here. Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.
> 
> My main problem with them was the high cost of replacement bulbs but the ones I mentioned had light quality that was hard to beat. The ARC is so popular and a fantastic light but it was the dimmest one. Nite Rider just sells whatever they churn out, Lume never caught on with their narrow beam, and Jet did okay but I think their Halogens sold the best for them.
> 
> ...


Good points. Btw, Jet Lites is releasing an LED light(s) this summer.

fc


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## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

Flyer said:


> ... Maybe they (HIDs) are still going strong in Europe and Australia.....


Yup, there a couple smaller co's still making descent HID's here in Australia. With Ayup (Aus) and Adventure Lighting Products (NZ) things are slowly shifting to LED. The 'big brand' bike light brands usually end up too dear to buy once they are distributed in.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

francois said:


> Good feedback again.
> 
> Thinking about what you said and looking at the photo, it seems some lights are taller than other and could be blocking some light. I should lower the light to the meter level. I'll check if this changes any of the data.
> 
> fc


I wouldn't lower the light all the way to the meter level, you don't want the periphery spill to strick the dome directly, maybe lower it to an inch above the top of the dome. The DiNottes 200L's are going to give you some problems since they have that transparent gasket that shines a lot of light directly out the side - you'd have to mask that with back tape or something.

I'd also be careful about moving things around in the room/garage. Anything that is lit up, will affect the meter. If you move something in the room, then the reflected light can be changed. Being closer or farther from a wall will affect the meter too, so consistent geometry is important.

We can define a new unit of measurement for lights - a "standard francois room"


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## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

francois said:


> Good points. Btw, Jet Lites is releasing an LED light(s) this summer.
> 
> fc


Dang! And I was ready to buy something else! Maybe I should wait because I LOVE my Jet PSB!:thumbsup:


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## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

New addition today with the Cateye triple shot!

Francis - under "mounting options" for the triple shot it says; "The Knog 605 can only be mounted on the handlebar."

Opps!:blush:


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

xray_ed said:


> New addition today with the Cateye triple shot!
> 
> Francis - under "mounting options" for the triple shot it says; "The Knog 605 can only be mounted on the handlebar."
> 
> Opps!:blush:


Fixed. thank you!

fc


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## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

francois said:


> Here's the preliminary results. The Jet Halogen is a huge surprise.
> <table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 329pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="438"> [TR] [TD]Light[/TD] [TD]Price[/TD] [TD]Claimed Lumens[/TD] [TD]Ambient Lux[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light and Motion Vega[/TD] [TD]$175[/TD] [TD]75[/TD] [TD]5[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Cateye Tripleshot[/TD] [TD]$330[/TD] [TD]130[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light and Motion Stella 180L[/TD] [TD]$300[/TD] [TD]180[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Minewt.X2[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Joystick Maxx[/TD] [TD]$250[/TD] [TD]240[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Levin Brightstar[/TD] [TD]$270[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]15[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ayup helmet[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]280[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 200L [/TD] [TD]$249[/TD] [TD]200[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Knog 605[/TD] [TD]$399[/TD] [TD]300[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ayup bar (regular kit)[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]280[/TD] [TD]17[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Race Maxx[/TD] [TD]$350[/TD] [TD]480[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BR Lights C2.1H[/TD] [TD]$330[/TD] [TD]410[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BR Lights Jeni H[/TD] [TD]$299[/TD] [TD]410[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Enduro Maxx[/TD] [TD]$450[/TD] [TD]720[/TD] [TD]30[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID[/TD] [TD]$500[/TD] [TD]675[/TD] [TD]30[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 200L Dual[/TD] [TD]$349[/TD] [TD]400[/TD] [TD]32[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 600-LI-4C[/TD] [TD]$399[/TD] [TD]600[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light On Expedition 1000[/TD] [TD]$800[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Trinewt[/TD] [TD]$500[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jet Lites Phantom Halogen[/TD] [TD]$295[/TD] [TD]675[/TD] [TD]44[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lupine Betty 12[/TD] [TD]$1,185[/TD] [TD]1400[/TD] [TD]65[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]


I copied this into an Excel spreadsheet and then did a few basic formulas, and then sorted the results by ascending order. The results of Lux per $$ (who sells the cheapest illumination) is interesting, as is the ratio of measured lux per claimed lumen (i.e., whose claimed brightness is the closest to what you measured). Great info, keep it up. :thumbsup:


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

tscheezy said:


> I copied this into an Excel spreadsheet and then did a few basic formulas, and then sorted the results by ascending order. The results of Lux per $$ (who sells the cheapest illumination) is interesting, as is the ratio of measured lux per claimed lumen (i.e., whose claimed brightness is the closest to what you measured). Great info, keep it up. :thumbsup:


post it up man. That's on my todo list.

fc


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## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

Here ya go. First off, the colors just sort of offer a visual grouping of the mtbr lux values divided by $ msrp. Green is for the under $10 per lux lights, yellow $11-13, orange $14-16, red $17-19, and gray over $20.

I also divided lux by claimed lumens, and then made each light a fraction of the highest value (in this case, the Cateye Tripleshot). This gives a relative thumbnail idea of who's lumen claim was closest to Francis' lux measurement compared to other lights, using the Tripleshot as a value of "1". Only the Enduro Maxx and Levin Brightstar were below 50% on this relative (and somewhat arbitrary) scale. While in reality it is probably pretty meaningless, it's sort of interesting to see how a company's claims about a particular light seem to measure up to another's.


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## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

Well cheesey, that is pretty cool, but one other factor is street price.
Some lights, particularly if you buy from the manufacturer, are pretty well set in stone.
A light like the TriNewt can be had for under $300 without the remote switch. So it's value rating per lux would be more like $9 per lux.

The Jet light is amazing not because it is a new technology, because it certainly is not, but how well old technology works in comparison to the best of the new technology.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

tscheezy said:


> Here ya go. First off, the colors just sort of offer a visual grouping of the mtbr lux values divided by $ msrp. Green is for the under $10 per lux lights, yellow $11-13, orange $14-16, red $17-19, and gray over $20.
> 
> I also divided lux by claimed lumens, and then made each light a fraction of the highest value (in this case, the Cateye Tripleshot). This gives a relative thumbnail idea of who's lumen claim was closest to Francis' lux measurement compared to other lights, using the Tripleshot as a value of "1". Only the Enduro Maxx and Levin Brightstar were below 50% on this relative (and somewhat arbitrary) scale. While in reality it is probably pretty meaningless, it's sort of interesting to see how a company's claims about a particular light seem to measure up to another's.


Awesome! One mistake on my part, the Light On Expedition comes with 2 lights for $800 (helmet and bar). Since I only measured one, the price should be $400.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Dinotte is now up
http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/dinotte-200l-200l-dual-600-li-4c/

fc


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

*francois* Thank for you excellent work  :thumbsup:

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Looks great Francois.:thumbsup: Cheezey good job breaking it down. One thing I'd like to add is that Lupine sells a Betty 6 for $995 retail with the smaller battery that will get you 3 hours on high so that amounts to $15 per lux which puts it more in the middle of the pack.


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

amazing work, francois... I'm not through reading it all...but I am loving it...


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

More lights are in:
Princeton Tec Switchback 2
Princeton Tec Switchback 2
Niteflux Photon Max 12 watt LED $375.00 
Niteflux VisionStick Photon 4 Enduro $203.99 

Now if I can just find a legal place to night ride...:bluefrown:

fc


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I was looking forward to the Niteflux Photon Max. I hear this one has incredible reach for a 3-LED setup and relatively advanced power management. The shape is odd but that is due to the cooling fins, which may be pretty effective at forcing air in while moving. I'm not sure about the lighthead weight but the only negative I have read is that there is a pretty concentrated hotspot or section of the beam that one reviewer said was distracting. Apparently, his eyes kept focusing on it DURING the ride since it stands out a lot. I find this to be very true in general though I have not seen or used the Niteflux Photon.

francois- please look into this with a short ride through a slightly twisty section. Maybe have "watchers" posted on both ends to avoid the Gestapo. If not, just move the light around the trail and see if the hotspot is too reflective or draws your eyes to it while moving.


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Looking good so far :thumbsup: if I might make a suggestion..............make the images open a new window to show the bigger version instead of taking the viewer off the actual review page. Keeps people there instead of having to click back all the time.


----------



## bankerboy (Oct 17, 2006)

Loving it so far!

Can you create a title page with links to each review as they are created rather than haphazardly posting them on the front page? 

In your original intro page you listed each of the lights that you were reveiwing. How about just make those clickable links as the review is completed. It would make it much easier to find the desired review and make the page cleaner.

Just a suggestion.


----------



## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

...and links to the manufacturer's website at the top of each review so folks can click over and see what other models they offer or to get more info. That'd be super. :thumbsup:


----------



## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

http://gearreview.com/LEDs08_intro.php


----------



## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

francois, any chance you can test some
of the cygolite's?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

LyNx said:


> Looking good so far :thumbsup: if I might make a suggestion..............make the images open a new window to show the bigger version instead of taking the viewer off the actual review page. Keeps people there instead of having to click back all the time.


Good suggestion. I'll check into it.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

tscheezy said:


> ...and links to the manufacturer's website at the top of each review so folks can click over and see what other models they offer or to get more info. That'd be super. :thumbsup:


Yes, and yes to the previous suggestion.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

chas_martel said:


> francois, any chance you can test some
> of the cygolite's?


Cygolite is out of press products so they will send lights as soon as they're availalble.

Cause I'm not buyin nuthin... .

fc


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Nice response from them...NOT! Most companies comprehend what a positive impact these tests can have on a product. Maybe they sell enough and don't need another stinkin' annual test to tell people that their lights are amazing


----------



## mealsonwheels (Mar 6, 2004)

Forgive me if someone already suggested this, but I have been debating between Trail Tech's  SC MR 16 HID with 1,850 lumens and the Betty for my second light. I'd love to see a review of this with beam pattern so I can compare between the two. I'd prefer the Betty as it's LED with raving reviews, but the price of the Trail Tech is way more within my budget.

Excellent job on the review by the way. VERY helpful.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Great job guys and this will prove to be really useful

the iBlaast! manufacturer is Nightlightning and their website is www.nightlightning.co.nz

Email Eric for the full details or myself (South African distributor) at [email protected]


----------



## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

:thumbsup: for the shootout. 

This statement really struck my interest:

"What happened? The leading edge of last year’s crop of LED lights got left behind very quickly. It’s not bright enough and too heavy."


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

BR Lights and Light On is up!

Also check this out....

http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/trail_compare.html

Does it work?? There's a dual photo version of it too for side by side comparison.

fc


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

francois said:


> BR Lights and Light On is up!
> 
> Also check this out....
> 
> ...


works great, fc!

really nice way to summarize the comparison shots! :thumbsup:


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The BR lights are really nice, as I have always maintained. The beam width and reach of both lights are good. I didn't realize that they have such a short burntime though- that would not work for me. That really is too bad since two hours is close to the minimum ride time we usually go on at night and I'm not going to dim those like I would if they were brighter. I'd prefer having some buffer time in case an unexpected stop is needed. I think 3 hrs would be my floor as far as burn-time is concerned. 

Also, the beam's downward adjustment does seem very limited. It may not be a big deal but it is something to consider since the light sits so low (on the helmet) to begin with. It could be a bigger problem for guys who sit more upright (me, for example). I would probably need to angle the lighhead/beam a bit lower than others. I have not tried it out but it is something to think about. However, BR Lights does have a pretty good return policy if it doesn't work out. They also look very tough.

I really like the trail section you have chosen, francois. It goes out pretty far and has enough overhanging branches to catch light as well. It also looks nice enough to make me want to ride each time I see it. Well, I'll be out of the country for five weeks starting tomorrow so I'll see the rest when I get back.


----------



## NoBalance (Feb 23, 2007)

*Great review - adding some geeked out analysis*

This is a very valuable resource and I've been flipping spreadsheets around with the numbers, preparing for my purchase decision.

Based on your numbers, the following little table has been generated.
Note that I had to scrap the old spreadsheet/formulas because there was an obvious problem. 

A big issue is trying to integrate the "weight" factor, so I left it out in the following table. Also removed the "Relative costs" column.

Now we just have Cost per LuxHour. LuxHour being BurnTime*Lux.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

NoBalance said:


> This is a very valuable resource and I've been flipping spreadsheets around with the numbers, preparing for my purchase decision.
> 
> Based on your numbers, the following little table has been generated.
> There are 3 columns:
> ...


Awesome!

send me an email at [email protected]. I'll email you the excel spreadsheet of all my data. Maybe you can develop these nice summaries for us. I can publish them in the review.

There's about 5 folks on this board that have been diligently helping me with this review already.

fc


----------



## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Let's not lose sight of the non-statistical aspects. Those are much more important for most riders. Things like beam reach, beam width, reliability, weight, design, strength, customer service, etc. should be far more important to a decision than whether one light costs 10% more per Lumen.


----------



## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

So far...

I tossed this one. See the new version updated with more lights below.


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

nice one, TS!


----------



## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

This one's cool too:


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

"Dinotte 200L, 200L Dual & 600-LI-4C"

This is the title for one of the reviews, however the 600L is not in the write-up...

Will you be testing the Jet Lites halogen system?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> "Dinotte 200L, 200L Dual & 600-LI-4C"
> 
> This is the title for one of the reviews, however the 600L is not in the write-up...
> 
> Will you be testing the Jet Lites halogen system?


Did you see this page:
http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/dinotte-200l-200l-dual-600-li-4c/

Each manufacturer has their own page. The 600L is near the bottom.

Jet Lites Halogen? Maybe.

fc


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

francois said:


> Did you see this page:
> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/dinotte-200l-200l-dual-600-li-4c/
> 
> Each manufacturer has their own page. The 600L is near the bottom.
> ...


I guess I didn't scroll down far enough, but I could have sworn it wasn't there. You still need links for the lights all at the top of the shootout page IMO. Keep up the good work.

It would be nice to have the Jet halogen. They now have a 25W that does ~700 lumens (but has a runtime of about 2.5 hours). That might not be bad for $395.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Exposure is up now.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/exposure-enduro-maxx-race-maxx-joystick-maxx/

fc


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Uh Francois, only just noticed now there's more reviews with pics up on the initial page, but WOAH what's with the huge file sizes for such small images - one was 500x375 @ 375kb :eekster: Try using Photoshops' SAVE FOR WEB feature and get those sizes down to more realistic like around <120kb for an image that size. Seriously and I'm not even on dial-up anymore, up to 128kps now.


----------



## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

Updated with the new lights:


----------



## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

Looking good! I can't wait for the rollover images. 

I noticed that you did a trail shot of the Ay-Up bar, helmet then bar/helmet combo, but you didn't do a combo shot at the fence. Any chance of getting one?

Also, is it me or does the Ay-Up combo trail shot look like one of the lights is aimed at the tree?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

xray_ed said:


> Looking good! I can't wait for the rollover images.
> 
> I noticed that you did a trail shot of the Ay-Up bar, helmet then bar/helmet combo, but you didn't do a combo shot at the fence. Any chance of getting one?
> 
> Also, is it me or does the Ay-Up combo trail shot look like one of the lights is aimed at the tree?


I shall try on the Ayup combo.

Yes, on the trail shots, the aim is not perfect on some of them. it's pretty easy to see on the photos. During the shoot, it's actually really hard to tell where exactly it's aimed.

Here's a sneak peak at the rollover:
http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/trail_compare.html

fc


----------



## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

francois said:


> I shall try on the Ayup combo.
> 
> Yes, on the trail shots, the aim is not perfect on some of them. it's pretty easy to see on the photos. During the shoot, it's actually really hard to tell where exactly it's aimed.
> 
> ...


Cool. Can you make a version with 2 windows to directly compare 2 products and see the result of both on the screen ?~?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

All Mountain said:


> Cool. Can you make a version with 2 windows to directly compare 2 products and see the result of both on the screen ?~?


This is a mockup:

It preloads everything so it takes a minute.

http://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/dual_trail_compare.html

fc


----------



## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

francois said:


> This is a mockup:
> 
> It preloads everything so it takes a minute.
> 
> ...


That's it !~! Excellent :thumbsup:

I think the Dinotte 600 link does not work.


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

francois said:


> This is a mockup:
> 
> It preloads everything so it takes a minute.
> 
> ...


Gotta watch the mouse pointer going from side to side. :madman: I can imagine the attempts after a couple Kilt Lifters! :crazy:


----------



## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

That's groovy.


----------



## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

slocaus said:


> Gotta watch the mouse pointer going from side to side. :madman: I can imagine the attempts after a couple Kilt Lifters! :crazy:


Yeah, I agree that I's a bit touchy. Maybe you could make it to where you have to click the name of the light to get the beamshot instead of just rolling over it.


----------



## dtheo (Sep 18, 2005)

*Hope lights*

Francois,
Thanks for your excellent work on this review. 
It would be great to see the new Hope lights tested if possible when they come out.

thanks,
DT


----------



## G-Cracker (Feb 8, 2006)

Francois... +1 for excellence in this review. I'm one of those who are curious about CygoLite's products. In fact, I received their DualCross Pro NiMH (compared 30watt) as a Christmas present and tried it out for the first time last night. I am very, very impressed with the light, considering the size of the battery, run-time, and cost. So were my riding companions.  

I'm interested to see how it (or whatever CygoLite sends you) stacks up to the competition.

Cheers!


----------



## lesoudeur (Nov 3, 2005)

It's a pity that the Cateye Triple Shot Pro (HL-EL830RC) could not have been tested as this is more representative of their current product. People have certainly commented on how much better it is than the older model under test and of course the battery is now much more compact. Just a thought. Excellent reviews though...a really good resource.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Lupine Betty 12 is up

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lupine-betty-12/

Don't be angry cause I didn't give it a 5/5 value rating.

Wilma review is coming

fc


----------



## Bullrider (Jan 22, 2004)

*I questioned the 3/5*

Yes the light is fantastic and solidly built, but for that much cash, you can buy several of the other lights and have both bar and helment illumination sources (e.g. several Dinotte 600's).

$1200 for a light... :eekster:


----------



## striegel (Dec 24, 2007)

*Yeah, Whoa!*



Bullrider said:


> Yes the light is fantastic and solidly built, but for that much cash, you can buy several of the other lights and have both bar and helmet illumination sources (e.g. several Dinotte 600's).
> 
> $1200 for a light... :eekster:


I believe another weakness of putting everything you have into a single light on the bars is that there's no independent system in case of trouble. Even with the very best light on the market, you need to have a backup. So you're not done paying after you've spent for this light.


----------



## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

For your info, if you don't need the longer run times the Betty 6 can be had for well under $900 if you know where to look. Run time at 1400 lumens is 3+ hours, and much longer on 60% (840 lumens), 40% (560 lumens), 5% (70 lumens), etc. You don't need to pay anywhere near $1200 to get your hands on a Betty.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Light meter data table is now available.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-light-meter-measurements/

Looks like Iblaast and Trail Tech are sending lights. But nothing from cygolite.

fc


----------



## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

I can't wait to see the Trail Tech 30w HID flood compare to the Betty.


----------



## trickydisco78 (Jan 4, 2007)

IWhat i don't understand is how the Ay-up picture of their website









compares to the shootout pic here (combo)


----------



## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Different exposure times and aperture settings will give you totally different pictures.

A long enough exposure time could make a mini-mag look like an HID.

The only photos that are helpful are ones of different lights taken at the same time, same place with the same camera and exposure settings.


----------



## trickydisco78 (Jan 4, 2007)

that's the confusing thing with all of these claims. I'm currently weighing up the ay-ups or the Iblaast.

i love the whole package of the ay ups (long battery life, the extras in all the kit and light weight) but i'#m told the iblaast has a awesome brightness which is comparable to the wilma


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

francois said:


> Light meter data table is now available.
> 
> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-light-meter-measurements/
> 
> ...


Francois,

It seems that the "Light On Expedition 1000" is positioned wrong in the rank. It has a reading of 41, yet it is "above" the TriNewt with 33.

Is this the case or I missed something?


----------



## trickydisco78 (Jan 4, 2007)

Can someone tell what beam styles are used in the ay up light shootout picture?
https://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/ayup-regular-kit/


----------



## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

trickydisco78 said:


> that's the confusing thing with all of these claims. I'm currently weighing up the ay-ups or the Iblaast.
> 
> i love the whole package of the ay ups (long battery life, the extras in all the kit and light weight) but i'#m told the iblaast has a awesome brightness which is comparable to the wilma


Also if you look at the shootout pic, one of the lights (presumably the helmet mount) is kind of aimed at the tree. Francois said that it's difficult to tell where it is pointed when taking the pics.

I'll let you know how the Ay-Up regular kit stacks up to my old tried & true Jet Phantom. I just ordered the regular kit maybe 2 minutes ago!:thumbsup:  I got the intermediate for the bars, narrow for the head. Narrow for the head? That just sounds funny!


----------



## trickydisco78 (Jan 4, 2007)

xray-ed

Are you UK based? what output was the jet phantom.

It's looking like the ay ups are winning it for me but by god that iblaast looks powerful!


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

crisillo said:


> Francois,
> 
> It seems that the "Light On Expedition 1000" is positioned wrong in the rank. It has a reading of 41, yet it is "above" the TriNewt with 33.
> 
> Is this the case or I missed something?


Correct. I'll fix that. Initially, it measured 31 Lux. But it turns out the battery was low and we remeasured at 41 Lux.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

trickydisco78 said:


> IWhat i don't understand is how the Ay-up picture of their website
> 
> compares to the shootout pic here (combo)


It looks like theirs is aimed closer and lower. Also, some of our light is aimed higher at the canopy.

It also looks like their trail is a white rock material which reflects light better.

I'm not sure what their camera settings are. Their photo looks a bit bright. Even the handlebars appear bright.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

trickydisco78 said:


> Can someone tell what beam styles are used in the ay up light shootout picture?
> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/ayup-regular-kit/


Intermediate handlebar, narrow helmet. I'll add this in the review.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

trickydisco78 said:


> xray-ed
> 
> Are you UK based? what output was the jet phantom.
> 
> It's looking like the ay ups are winning it for me but by god that iblaast looks powerful!


The Iblaast photo on their website is unrealistically bright. It looks like daylight yet it's only rated at 700 lumens.

fc


----------



## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

trickydisco78 said:


> xray-ed
> 
> Are you UK based? what output was the jet phantom.
> 
> It's looking like the ay ups are winning it for me but by god that iblaast looks powerful!


Southeast USA here. I had it narrowed down to the Ay-Up & the Dinotte 200L Dual. What I wanted was a kit of Helmet & bar light with 4+ hours burn time & race light weight for <$400. My two selections seemed almost equal, so the Ay-Up won mostly on the "looks cool" factor. The roll up case was a big plus also.

I'll post up when they come in. Does anybody know how long it will take to get them to the SE USA?


----------



## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

Waiting on the Wilma review  !~!~!~!~!


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

All Mountain said:


> Waiting on the Wilma  !~!~!~!~!


:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

(OT - I just ordered a TriNewt to go with the ARC :ihih: )


----------



## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

francois said:


> Looks like Iblaast and Trail Tech are sending lights. But nothing from cygolite.
> 
> fc


Great to hear you will get an iBlaast.


----------



## mbmojo (Aug 9, 2004)

trickydisco78 said:


> IWhat i don't understand is how the Ay-up picture of their website
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is this better?










Photoshop is your friend.


----------



## trickydisco78 (Jan 4, 2007)

Yep!.. 

Bloody misleading photos..Still the ay up does look good in the original photo


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

trickydisco78 said:


> IWhat i don't understand is how the Ay-up picture of their website
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair & inflated?


----------



## bpierro (Nov 3, 2007)

*Misleading photos?*

Really I know we all want to see a real life photo equivalent of what these lights would look like out on the trail but the photos are not misleading. It is photography... not human eyesight we are working with. These are only used for general comparative purposes when viewed alongside the other photos taken in the same places at the same camera exposures.

It is possible that either you or me with differing eyesight would view these lights differently out on the trail and then again even more differently depending on the amount of ambient light (bright full moons, streetlights, etc.)

Everything in these reviews can only be for general comparative purposes. You have to make a decision on a light to use, preferably if you can see the light working with your own eyes first, then take it out on the trail.

Sorry for the mini-rant. The reviews are the best Ive seen for bike lighting yet. Can we just pass the whole test set around so each of us can test the lights with our own eyes now?


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

bpierro said:


> Really I know we all want to see a real life photo equivalent of what these lights would look like out on the trail but the photos are not misleading. It is photography... not human eyesight we are working with. These are only used for general comparative purposes when viewed alongside the other photos taken in the same places at the same camera exposures.
> 
> It is possible that either you or me with differing eyesight would view these lights differently out on the trail and then again even more differently depending on the amount of ambient light (bright full moons, streetlights, etc.)
> 
> ...


I agree - if we see a set of beam shot comparisons next to each other, taken at the same time with everything else the same, then regardless, surely it's a fair shoot?


----------



## trickydisco78 (Jan 4, 2007)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I agree - if we see a set of beam shot comparisons next to each other, taken at the same time with everything else the same, then regardless, surely it's a fair shoot?


I would agree with that. Seeing the photos alongside other lights as a comparison has certainly helped me out a lot


----------



## richwolf (Dec 8, 2004)

bonesetter2004 said:


> I agree - if we see a set of beam shot comparisons next to each other, taken at the same time with everything else the same, then regardless, surely it's a fair shoot?


Some people will always shoot the messenger. It is probably the best review on lights around.

I find the lux readings the most useful, and not the beam shots although the beam shots are great too.

Lots of options out there. Sometimes too many options make it hard to make a decision though.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mbmojo said:


> Is this better?
> 
> Photoshop is your friend.


He, he, he. These Iblaast shots are bright as day too:
http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/adventure_lighting_products.htm

The lumens ratings are bad too. They are best case scenarios for the LEDs and don't take into account:
- battery quality
- voltage regulator output
- reflector design
- refractor lens light loss

Maybe I'll drop my 'claimed lumens per dollar' ratings and go with 'measured lux per dollar'.

fc

That's why our shootout is important and appreciated I think.

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

richwolf said:


> Some people will always shoot the messenger. It is probably the best review on lights around.
> 
> I find the lux readings the most useful, and not the beam shots although the beam shots are great too.
> 
> Lots of options out there. Sometimes too many options make it hard to make a decision though.


The lux readings are cool. They are useful and duplicateable.

I was concerned that wider beam patterns might have a higher reading than equally bright lights with a narrower beam pattern. But I did a test and it looks ok:

The Dinotte 200L measured in at 16 Lux. I measured two 200Ls pointed at the same spot on the ceiling and it measured 32 Lux. I pointed the two 200Ls beside each other for a wider beam pattern and I got... around 32 Lux. That is good.

fc


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

francois said:


> The lumens ratings are bad too. They are best case scenarios for the LEDs


This is one of my biggest frustrations. It's as bad as claimed bicycle weights, claimed tire widths, etc. It's almost laughable.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

francois said:


> The lux readings are cool. They are useful and duplicateable.
> 
> I was concerned that wider beam patterns might have a higher reading than equally bright lights with a narrower beam pattern. But I did a test and it looks ok:
> 
> ...


What about a 200L with a wider beam?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

[email protected] said:


> What about a 200L with a wider beam?


I don't have that wide beam unfortunately.

Some of these lenses though have different light efficiencies.

fc


----------



## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

francois said:


> I don't have that wide beam unfortunately.
> 
> Some of these lenses though have different light efficiencies.
> 
> fc


An example of this being the Ay-Up helmet vs bar. The helmet (presumably the narrow beam) mesured 16 lux whereas the bar (intermidiate) came in at 17. The only difference would be the optics, right?

Could we assume that if you measured them together you would most likely get 33 lux? The Dinnote 200L was 16 lux & the Dual (2 of the same light) was 32.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

xray_ed said:


> An example of this being the Ay-Up helmet vs bar. The helmet (presumably the narrow beam) mesured 16 lux whereas the bar (intermidiate) came in at 17. The only difference would be the optics, right?
> 
> Could we assume that if you measured them together you would most likely get 33 lux? The Dinnote 200L was 16 lux & the Dual (2 of the same light) was 32.


Correct sir on the Ayup. It is my belief that the more the light is bent (to make it wider) the greater the optic loss.

Light on lights say they have a 13% optic loss on their lenses which make the pattern very wide.

And yes, I've tested that when lights are added together, the Lux readings add up too. I've done this for the Dual Dinotte 200s and Minewt.X2 dual.

fc


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## [email protected] (Jan 4, 2004)

francois said:


> Correct sir on the Ayup. It is my belief that the more the light is bent (to make it wider) the greater the optic loss.
> 
> Light on lights say they have a 13% optic loss on their lenses which make the pattern very wide.
> 
> ...


Cool.


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## rafdog (Jun 16, 2006)

Francois,

Thanks for doing this...it really helped me narrow it all down and make a decision on my first light purchase...whether it was the right decision, well, we'll see.:thumbsup:


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## xray_ed (Oct 9, 2004)

So has anybody come up with any theories as to why the Jet halogen tested so high in the lux department? Obviously it's not really that much brighter, right?


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

*Measured and claimed outputs*

Looking good!

Here is a plot of the measured LUX verses the claimed Lumens using the MTBR data, I normalized the vertical scale with the Niterider TriNewt (since someone mentioned that they measured their outputs).








Yellow bars are what Frances measured (scale on the right)
Red bars are claimed lumens (scale on the left)
The quoted price is also plotted to scale....


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

eddielee70 said:


> 6vNiMH 6v15w halogen 4lux baseline
> 7.2 Li-ion 6v15w halogen 18.8lux
> 11.v li-ion 6v 15w halogen bright 0.1 sec, stupid, eh?
> 7.2 li-ion 12v 20w halogen 2.8lux
> ...


addition tests.
Turbocat mod with cutter kit 3 R2 at 750ma fatman 6v lead acid 28.4 lux
turbocat mod with cutter kit 3 R2 at 800ma fatman 6v lead acid 30 lux
Arc light and motion HID 207 model 20 lux high 14 lux in lower setting 
Trinewt in my enviroment with blue ceiling 21.5 lux 
4-cree q4 500ma $50shipped flashlight 26 lux 
cygolite triden x with new 3 ssc 7.2v li-ion 2 cell 19lux

waiting on a 600L to verify result to Trinewt 21.5 lux reading.

correction on the name of past tested light:
niterider li-ion MOAB HID/led 11.1v li-ion 7-11hr run time 11.5lux
old 2 year HID 13.2v nimh niterider STORM 23 lux
trailtech 10W HID 16.5lux
niterider 13.2niMH cyclone HID/led CYCLONE and FLAMETHROWER 17.3lux


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

xray_ed said:


> So has anybody come up with any theories as to why the Jet halogen tested so high in the lux department? Obviously it's not really that much brighter, right?


overvolt any of your old halogen light by 20%-40%, it is that much brighter, but what cost of life.
would you want 100,000 hour on led or maybe 100 hour from overheated overvolted halogen. alot the wattage does go into heat, so it'll be good to warm your hands while it's on.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

trickydisco78 said:


> I would agree with that. Seeing the photos alongside other lights as a comparison has certainly helped me out a lot


I too just want to give MTBR :thumbsup: :thumbsup: for doing the review. There is nothing else on the web that rivals this test. It really puts the R in MTBR. I come here mostly for the forum, but i am happy to see another reason for people to visit the site.

The bad part is, as a result of all this, I may see about $350 falling out of my pocket, and flowing towards Dinotte. Oh decisions decisions... I have lots of time to think about it though. No need to rush into a decision.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

I too like the Dinotte.

I have a nice Turbocat 15w helmet & s47 bar. Run time can be an issue if you don't conserve which is why I like the Dinotte.

Anyone know about the new 420 lumen single cree emitter. Will this be useful for bike lights or does it take too many amps to run. I'm still learning about the workings of LED's.

Also, I had a 60% overvolted 20w halogen that burned out. While it ran, it dwarfed pretty much everything. It just didn't last and that was the 2nd bulb. Both lasted about 10 hours so I've decided it's not a feasible light. The battery weighted a ton!!!

MB


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## tekkamaki (Mar 3, 2007)

Good work on the review.
I wonder how many lux a Pondscum 20w would be?



mb323323 said:


> I.
> 
> Also, I had a 60% overvolted 20w halogen that burned out. While it ran, it dwarfed pretty much everything. It just didn't last and that was the 2nd bulb. Both lasted about 10 hours so I've decided it's not a feasible light. The battery weighted a ton!!!
> 
> MB


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

tekkamaki said:


> Good work on the review.
> I wonder how many lux a Pondscum 20w would be?


Me too, or a Pond Scum 10w + 20w setup... The brand and type of bulb makes a dramatic difference in light output though, even with same wattage and same beam angle.

I'd vote for a test of these bulbs - http://www.lightbulbemporium.com/proddetail.asp?prod=58532

It's a very nice bulb.

BM


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ok, I got the 1800 lumen light from Trail tech. It's going to be the value king. But it's as big as a baseball.

Also, I got three Aussie lights from NightFlux.

fc


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## TheFunkyMonkey (Sep 18, 2007)

How come there hasn't been any updates for a few days?

Just eager to see the remaining tests, Thanks Francois!


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

francois said:


> Ok, I got the 1800 lumen light from Trail tech. It's going to be the value king. But it's as big as a baseball.
> 
> Also, I got three Aussie lights from NightFlux.
> 
> fc


sweet! that trailtech lightsounds promising inspite of the size...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

TheFunkyMonkey said:


> How come there hasn't been any updates for a few days?
> 
> Just eager to see the remaining tests, Thanks Francois!


Sorry, I had to wait for the arrival of some lights before doing more photo shoots.

I just released the beam pattern rollover pages

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/bike-lights-shootout-beam-pattern-comparison/

fc


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

francois said:


> Sorry, I had to wait for the arrival of some lights before doing more photo shoots.
> 
> I just released the beam pattern rollover pages
> 
> ...


It gets better every day. Good stuff francois.


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

rkj__ said:


> It gets better every day. Good stuff francois.


Yes, we're getting spoilt for sure

The Light On Expedition 1000 combo is my favorite. The 'brightest' Lupine combo surely is too much though - cold & glaring like a fluorescent strip light

BUT we haven't seen the iBlaast! yet...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Yes, we're getting spoilt for sure
> 
> The Light On Expedition 1000 combo is my favorite. The 'brightest' Lupine combo surely is too much though - cold & glaring like a fluorescent strip light
> 
> BUT we haven't seen the iBlaast! yet...


One of the good setups might be Light On Expedition on the bars, then Lupine Betty or Wilma on the helmet. The Light On is wide but has a hole in the middle. The Lupine will punch through that hole.

fc


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

francois said:


> One of the good setups might be Light On Expedition on the bars, then Lupine Betty or Wilma on the helmet. The Light On is wide but has a hole in the middle. The Lupine will punch through that hole.
> 
> fc


Thanks, now you've pointed the hole out it's apparent on the backyard fence shot (not so much on the trail shots which I was looking at)

For sure the Lupine/Expedition combo looks as if it would be knockout


----------



## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

francois said:


> Ok, I got the 1800 lumen light from Trail tech. It's going to be the value king. But it's as big as a baseball.
> 
> Also, I got three Aussie lights from NightFlux.
> 
> fc


I hope it's the 30w hid that weight 11.5oz, the other 30w 2.5inch diameter weigh 15oz. spot or flood?

It'll give Betty a good challenge. at $250, best value light even if you just going to handlebar mount it. I got the flood and beamshot is evenly wide and far. at 2.5 inch diameter is about same diameter as betty.


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## thinkcooper (Mar 21, 2006)

francois said:


> Light meter data table is now available.
> 
> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-light-meter-measurements/
> 
> ...


Just acquired a cygolite TridenX Li-ion. Want to try it out?


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

eddielee70 said:


> addition tests.
> Turbocat mod with cutter kit 3 R2 at 750ma fatman 6v lead acid 28.4 lux
> turbocat mod with cutter kit 3 R2 at 800ma fatman 6v lead acid 30 lux
> Arc light and motion HID 207 model 20 lux high 14 lux in lower setting
> ...


got hold of a

600L spot 21.8 lux

I think the triden X at 19lux that last 2.5 hour with a 2 cell 18650 batteries is pretty impressive. ability to change your beam pattern is even more impressive and easy. the triden came with 1 wide 30 degree in the middle and 2 spot 5 degree that are exactly same as what ledsupply.com sells. hope Francois test out the triden x.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

thinkcooper said:


> Just acquired a cygolite TridenX Li-ion. Want to try it out?


Yes Cooper, hook it up? What's the best way for me to get my hands on that?

fc


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

mealsonwheels said:


> Forgive me if someone already suggested this, but I have been debating between Trail Tech's  SC MR 16 HID with 1,850 lumens and the Betty for my second light. I'd love to see a review of this with beam pattern so I can compare between the two. I'd prefer the Betty as it's LED with raving reviews, but the price of the Trail Tech is way more within my budget.
> 
> Excellent job on the review by the way. VERY helpful.


Meal,

I run a Trail-Tech MR-11 in their 12 degree flood on my handlebars. $200, best bang for the buck currently in an HID with a 4 hour battery. About 16 lux or about 500 lumens? They offer a kit with a bar and helmet light that runs off of one battery. If you consider running an HID until the price of LED lights lose their bleeding edge technology prices for bicycle applications, you should be dollars ahead.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

tscheezy said:


> This one's cool too:


Tscheezy, that was VERY well done! Was that Trail-Tech MR-11 a 6 deg spot or a 12 degree flood? It looks a lot tighter than my 12 flood.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

francois said:


> Ok, I got the 1800 lumen light from Trail tech. It's going to be the value king. But it's as big as a baseball.
> 
> Also, I got three Aussie lights from NightFlux.
> 
> fc


I know you didn't get one to test Francois, but I think the same can pretty much be said about Trail-Techs MR-11 10w flood 12 deg HID for motorcycles, which I've adapted for bicycles. $200, 10w HID, I guess about 500 to 600 lumens, maybe 14 to 16 Lux. I did a brief review on them in October I think? Battery is a little heavy in NiMH, lighter in lithium, but I felt it's smaller, lighter, without the baseball bat aspect and a great system for me. Plenty of light for the nasties we ride around in on the San Gabriels here in So Cal in a handlebar mount configuration,


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## NoBalance (Feb 23, 2007)

itsdoable said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Here is a plot of the measured LUX verses the claimed Lumens using the MTBR data, I normalized the vertical scale with the Niterider TriNewt (since someone mentioned that they measured their outputs).
> 
> ...


Nice. Can you add Combos to the next spreadsheet? I'm on the fence with Dinotte and BR Lights. Based on the numbers provided, the Dinotte 200Lx2(bars) plus 600L(helmet) would seem to be similar to the BR Lights combo.

Of course, one could potentially create a document where you could select any variation of combination and generate a particular result. For example, a Lupine Betty mixed up with a Dinotte 200L. The document would automatically spit out the totals(lumens, lux, cost). HOwever, some manufacturers do give you discounts if you buy combo sets from them, so this also has to be considered.


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## thinkcooper (Mar 21, 2006)

francois said:


> Yes Cooper, hook it up? What's the best way for me to get my hands on that?
> 
> fc


I'm around this weekend, sans family. I could venture over to your side of the hill with the light fully charged to test it.


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

RandyBoy said:


> Tscheezy, that was VERY well done! Was that Trail-Tech MR-11 a 6 deg spot or a 12 degree flood? It looks a lot tighter than my 12 flood.


RandyBoy, those are my pictures I posted( if you look at my previous posts). the mr11 TT is only 10W using 11.1v li-ion battery 12 degree flood. the 600l is wide flood. from what you are saying, I'll double check the bulb again.....

overall lux reading for the 600L is 21.8lux in my room setup. the picture 30w TT hid was using 11.1v li-ion fully charge battery with 0.9v switch. the 66lux I got on the 30w TT was taken with the 0.9v switch out, so I could get the full 12.6 volts to the 30w HID. the 600L spot is brighter then the TT 10w 16.5lux and Niterider HID 17.3 lux, just can't tell with 600L flood.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

francois said:


> Ok, I got the 1800 lumen light from Trail tech. It's going to be the value king. But it's as big as a baseball.
> 
> Also, I got three Aussie lights from NightFlux.
> 
> fc


Keep in mind, most prices quoted are with battery packs and chargers. I'm not sure the Ayups come with batteries or chargers in the prices quoted. Reference needs to be made also about what type of battery is provided and replacement battery cost.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

eddielee70 said:


> RandyBoy, those are my pictures I posted( if you look at my previous posts). the mr11 TT is only 10W using 11.1v li-ion battery 12 degree flood. the 600l is wide flood. from what you are saying, I'll double check the bulb again.....
> 
> overall lux reading for the 600L is 21.8lux in my room setup. the picture 30w TT hid was using 11.1v li-ion fully charge battery with 0.9v switch. the 66lux I got on the 30w TT was taken with the 0.9v switch out, so I could get the full 12.6 volts to the 30w HID. the 600L spot is brighter then the TT 10w 16.5lux and Niterider HID 17.3 lux, just can't tell with 600L flood.


Kudo's to you lee.. the 10W to 13w HID's all use the same Welch Allyn bulb and reflector, the only difference being the input voltage from battery choices and the ballast. The only exception to this that I am aware of is the Light and Motion ARC, which has a proprietary reflector/lense.

Very valuable data you provided there, good stuff and I appreciate your attention to detail and thoroughness.


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## eddielee70 (Dec 28, 2006)

RandyBoy said:


> Kudo's to you lee.. the 10W to 13w HID's all use the same Welch Allyn bulb and reflector, the only difference being the input voltage from battery choices and the ballast. The only exception to this that I am aware of is the Light and Motion ARC, which has a proprietary reflector/lense.
> 
> Very valuable data you provided there, good stuff and I appreciate your attention to detail and thoroughness.


Welch Allyn bulb can be like LED, which can have different brightness within the same bunch. That said, the same bulb use in niterider can have different brightness b/c of the circuit or ballast. the Niterider moab li-ion HID which last 7.5 hour on high is only 11.5lux. my 2 year old 3 hour niterider HID storm is 23lux. L&M arc is amazing that their bulb is the only bulb that put out the best even beamshot for HID, but only 20lux I even took out the switch on the 10W to get the 17.3lux, but with TT switch in, I was only able to get 13.4lux. all this from 11.1v li-ion battery. something about the voltage drop in the TT switch. the 30W HID was only 60lux with the TT switch in. 66lux with a simple switch.

yea, I had too much time while recovering from a surgery. stuck in the house for a month. Time to stop typing and ride........


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

some new data

<table x:str="" style="border-collapse: collapse; width: 837pt;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="1117"> [TR] [TD]Light[/TD] [TD]Price[/TD] [TD]Claimed Lumens[/TD] [TD]Ambient Lux[/TD] [TD]Runtime 1[/TD] [TD]Runtime 2 [/TD] [TD]Battery Type[/TD] [TD]Light head weight[/TD] [TD]Battery Weight[/TD] [TD]Installed Weight[/TD] [TD]Lux per Gram[/TD] [TD]Lux per Dollar[/TD] [TD]Lumens per gram[/TD] [TD]Lumens per dollar[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ayup bar (regular kit)[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]280[/TD] [TD]17[/TD] [TD]7:10[/TD] [TD]8:45[/TD] [TD]Lithium Polymer[/TD] [TD]68[/TD] [TD]94[/TD] [TD]152[/TD] [TD]11.18[/TD] [TD]8.95[/TD] [TD]1.84[/TD] [TD]1.47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Ayup helmet[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]280[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [TD]5:10[/TD] [TD]4:05[/TD] [TD]Lithium Polymer[/TD] [TD]66[/TD] [TD]94[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]10.67[/TD] [TD]8.42[/TD] [TD]1.87[/TD] [TD]1.47[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BR Lights C2.1H[/TD] [TD]$330[/TD] [TD]410[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [TD]4:25[/TD] [TD]4:23[/TD] [TD]Lithium Polymer[/TD] [TD]407[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]407[/TD] [TD]6.88[/TD] [TD]8.48[/TD] [TD]1.01[/TD] [TD]1.24[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]BR Lights Jeni H[/TD] [TD]$299[/TD] [TD]410[/TD] [TD]28[/TD] [TD]2:13[/TD] [TD]2:15[/TD] [TD]Lithium Polymer[/TD] [TD]301[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]301[/TD] [TD]9.30[/TD] [TD]9.36[/TD] [TD]1.36[/TD] [TD]1.37[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Cateye Tripleshot[/TD] [TD]$330[/TD] [TD]130[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [TD]3:45[/TD] [TD]3:45[/TD] [TD]NiMh[/TD] [TD]212[/TD] [TD]478[/TD] [TD]714[/TD] [TD]1.54[/TD] [TD]3.33[/TD] [TD]0.18[/TD] [TD]0.39[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 200L [/TD] [TD]$249[/TD] [TD]200[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [TD]4:09[/TD] [TD]4:13[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]64[/TD] [TD]237[/TD] [TD]303[/TD] [TD]5.28[/TD] [TD]6.43[/TD] [TD]0.66[/TD] [TD]0.80[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 200L Dual[/TD] [TD]$349[/TD] [TD]400[/TD] [TD]32[/TD] [TD]2:05[/TD] [TD]2:06[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]130[/TD] [TD]237[/TD] [TD]385[/TD] [TD]8.31[/TD] [TD]9.17[/TD] [TD]1.04[/TD] [TD]1.15[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Dinotte 600-LI-4C[/TD] [TD]$399[/TD] [TD]600[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]3:30[/TD] [TD]3:35[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]138[/TD] [TD]237[/TD] [TD]397[/TD] [TD]8.31[/TD] [TD]8.27[/TD] [TD]1.51[/TD] [TD]1.50[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Enduro Maxx[/TD] [TD]$450[/TD] [TD]720[/TD] [TD]30[/TD] [TD]3:55[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]236[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]257[/TD] [TD]11.67[/TD] [TD]6.67[/TD] [TD]2.80[/TD] [TD]1.60[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Joystick Maxx[/TD] [TD]$250[/TD] [TD]240[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]2:53[/TD] [TD]2:55[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]77[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]97[/TD] [TD]14.43[/TD] [TD]5.60[/TD] [TD]2.47[/TD] [TD]0.96[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Exposure Race Maxx[/TD] [TD]$350[/TD] [TD]480[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]3:10[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]192[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]213[/TD] [TD]11.27[/TD] [TD]6.86[/TD] [TD]2.25[/TD] [TD]1.37[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jet Lites Phantom Halogen[/TD] [TD]$295[/TD] [TD]675[/TD] [TD]44[/TD] [TD]1:50[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]NiMh[/TD] [TD]66[/TD] [TD]715[/TD] [TD]801[/TD] [TD]5.49[/TD] [TD]14.92[/TD] [TD]0.84[/TD] [TD]2.29[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Jet Lites Shadow 2600 HID[/TD] [TD]$500[/TD] [TD]675[/TD] [TD]30[/TD] [TD]2:40[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]719[/TD] [TD]869[/TD] [TD]3.45[/TD]  [TD]6.00[/TD] [TD]0.78[/TD] [TD]1.35[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Knog 605[/TD] [TD]$399[/TD] [TD]300[/TD] [TD]16[/TD] [TD]1:57[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]98[/TD] [TD]384[/TD] [TD]482[/TD] [TD]3.32[/TD] [TD]4.01[/TD] [TD]0.62[/TD] [TD]0.75[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Levin Brightstar[/TD] [TD]$270[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]15[/TD] [TD]3:00[/TD] [TD]3:00[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]196[/TD] [TD]436[/TD] [TD]633[/TD] [TD]2.37[/TD] [TD]5.56[/TD] [TD]0.79[/TD] [TD]1.85[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light and Motion Stella 180L[/TD] [TD]$300[/TD] [TD]180[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]4:50[/TD] [TD]4:55[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]92[/TD] [TD]193[/TD] [TD]305[/TD] [TD]3.93[/TD] [TD]4.00[/TD] [TD]0.59[/TD] [TD]0.60[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light and Motion Vega[/TD] [TD]$175[/TD] [TD]75[/TD] [TD]5[/TD] [TD]2:10[/TD] [TD]2:05[/TD] [TD]NiMh[/TD] [TD]221[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]241[/TD] [TD]2.07[/TD] [TD]2.86[/TD] [TD]0.31[/TD] [TD]0.43[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Light On Expedition 1000[/TD] [TD]$800[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]41[/TD] [TD]4:00[/TD] [TD]4:00[/TD] [TD]NiMh[/TD] [TD]131[/TD] [TD]704[/TD] [TD]832[/TD] [TD]4.93[/TD] [TD]5.13[/TD] [TD]0.60[/TD] [TD]0.63[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lupine Betty 12[/TD] [TD]$1,185[/TD] [TD]1400[/TD] [TD]68[/TD] [TD]6:00[/TD] [TD]6:00[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]156[/TD] [TD]668[/TD] [TD]825[/TD] [TD]8.24[/TD] [TD]5.74[/TD] [TD]1.70[/TD] [TD]1.18[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Lupine Wilma 6[/TD] [TD]$695[/TD] [TD]830[/TD] [TD]44[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]140[/TD] [TD]320[/TD] [TD]460[/TD] [TD]9.57[/TD] [TD]6.33[/TD] [TD]1.80[/TD] [TD]1.19[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]NiteFLUX VisionStick Photon-4 Commuter[/TD] [TD]$200[/TD] [TD]270[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]2:00[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]273[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]273[/TD] [TD]4.40[/TD] [TD]6.00[/TD] [TD]0.99[/TD] [TD]1.35[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]NiteFLUX VisionStick Photon-4 Enduro[/TD] [TD]$300[/TD] [TD]270[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]6:00[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]176[/TD] [TD]265[/TD] [TD]542[/TD] [TD]2.21[/TD] [TD]4.00[/TD] [TD]0.50[/TD] [TD]0.90[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]NiteFLUX Photon MAX[/TD] [TD]$400[/TD] [TD]800[/TD] [TD]50[/TD] [TD]2:40[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]151[/TD] [TD]419[/TD] [TD]571[/TD] [TD]8.76[/TD] [TD]12.50[/TD] [TD]1.40[/TD] [TD]2.00[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Minewt.X2[/TD] [TD]$190[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]3:25[/TD] [TD]3:30[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]82[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]232[/TD] [TD]5.17[/TD] [TD]6.32[/TD] [TD]0.65[/TD] [TD]0.79[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Minewt.X2 Dual[/TD] [TD]$225[/TD] [TD]300[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]1:40[/TD] [TD]1:40[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]170[/TD] [TD]150[/TD] [TD]320[/TD] [TD]7.50[/TD] [TD]10.67[/TD] [TD]0.94[/TD] [TD]1.33[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Niterider Trinewt[/TD] [TD]$500[/TD] [TD]500[/TD] [TD]33[/TD] [TD]3:17[/TD] [TD]3:15[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]216[/TD] [TD]346[/TD] [TD]562[/TD] [TD]5.87[/TD] [TD]6.60[/TD] [TD]0.89[/TD] [TD]1.00[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Princeton Tec Switchback 2[/TD] [TD]$299[/TD] [TD]na[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]132[/TD] [TD]416[/TD] [TD]548[/TD] [TD]1.82[/TD] [TD]3.34[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Princeton Tec Switchback 3[/TD] [TD]$389[/TD] [TD]na[/TD] [TD]19[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]175[/TD] [TD]653[/TD] [TD]828[/TD] [TD]2.29[/TD] [TD]4.88[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]Trail Tech MR16 30W[/TD] [TD]$398[/TD] [TD]1850[/TD] [TD]121[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]Lithium Ion[/TD] [TD]388[/TD] [TD]618[/TD]  [TD]1006[/TD] [TD]12.03[/TD] [TD]30.40[/TD] [TD]1.84[/TD] [TD]4.65[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [TD]
[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

somebody make me some nice excel tables and graphs.

fc


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

francois said:


> somebody make me some nice excel tables and graphs.
> 
> fc


Something like this?








I'll see what else I can dig up tonight, but if you have some preferences, just let me know...


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Bah!

For my money, the Trail-Tech MR16 is the best value , Heavy on lux per $, heavy on performance,(puts out so much light, having a handle bar and helmet light is a moot point) and heavy in that it leaves the most amount of $ left in my portfolio to invest in other bike parts and bling / goodies.

Not good for weight weenies, or folks that have money to burn on blingy bling, or that need to make a label or fashion statement. I don't even know if a downhiller pro could even out run this light. If you blind an officer with it, you might be able to out run the ticket, he'd be seeing stars. Maybe francois can run a test for us!  :thumbsup:


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

itsdoable said:


> Something like this?
> I'll see what else I can dig up tonight, but if you have some preferences, just let me know...


Yeah.

Now do one on Lux per dollar. And maybe Lux per gram.

Btw. These Lux per dollar figures were x100 by me just to make them easier to read.

fc


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

itsdoable said:


> Something like this?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You need to change the dollar scale on the left hand side, and max it out at $1200, not what it's at. Also add a dollar bill green bar graph with the $ price laid in the bar sideways at the top for the price.


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> You need to change the dollar scale on the left hand side....


OK, here's a better one, I did the first one quick & dirty.

The left scale is claimed lumens, the right scale is measured LUX a-la fc. The cost has no axis scale since the value is printed, but the position of the number corresponds to the relative cost wrt each other.









Here is the Lumens per gram and $:








Same order as above, the measured ambient LUX has been converted to Lumens (using 33 LUX = 500 Lumens, assuming the Niterider Trinewt is correct - this can be changed). Lumens is the pale trasparent blue in the background, and uses the scale on the right.


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Slightly better graph (?)


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

itsdoable said:


> Slightly better graph (?)


Wonderful!!

Can you make the last graph just based on Measured Lux?

- Lux per gram and Lux per dollar.

The concept of Lux=33 lumens is foreign to my shootout and will confuse readers. It's easier for me to say Lumens is what they claim and Lux is what I measured.

thanks!
fc


----------



## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

So geeky. :thumbsup:


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

tscheezy said:


> So geeky. :thumbsup:


Is there a cure?


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

itsdoable said:


> Is there a cure?


Double your lumens, two hours exposure, five nights a week. Not a cure, but you will be happy. :thumbsup:


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

francois said:


> Can you make the last graph just based on Measured Lux?
> - Lux per gram and Lux per dollar.












Maybe this one is useful?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Wilma 6 review is up at http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lupine-wilma-6/

It's a fine light.

Also check the beam patterns of these awesome lights:
Niterider TriNewt - 33 Lux
Lupine Wilma 6 - 44 Lux
NiteFLUX Photon MAX - 50 Lux

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

itsdoable said:


> Maybe this one is useful?


I put these up live on the shootout.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-shootout-light-meter-measurements/

Great work. I'll send you a free mtbr jersey. PM me your size and address.

regards,
fc


----------



## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

xray_ed said:


> So has anybody come up with any theories as to why the Jet halogen tested so high in the lux department? Obviously it's not really that much brighter, right?


I think that this proves the difference between objective and subjective; while the Jetlite puts out a lot of light, the LED color is more pleasant to the eye and it is perceived as more light.

I have a Surefire 8AX that with the halogen head puts out 110 Lumens. Then I bought the 5W LED conversion just because the run time was extended (using same battery) and even when the claimed lumen is 75, I don't "see" that the light is giving up power


----------



## carnotcycle (Jan 24, 2008)

*An oversight..*

quoting: "Lights shootout comments
Please check it for accuracy and typos. I'd like to announce the shootout today. I'm planning to publish a couple light articles a day starting tomorrow as the page formatting progresses.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/lights-...-introduction/

fc"

I am new to these forums, and have been keenly following the debates and comparisons of the multiple LED systems. The LED shoot out and the resulting response has been most informative. Many thanks to those involved - it was an incredible task:thumbsup: . I would like to point out that the $500 used as the retail value for the Trinewt in several of the bar graphs and the table is for the "wireless setup" and not for the Trinewt which has a msrp of $400. . Perhaps this should be explicitly mentioned as it is a bit misleading


----------



## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

*Wilma review*

oops... 
this doesn't look like 4.5 chili rating for the Wilma 6, looks more like 3 to me.


*Value Rating:
4.5 out of 5 Stars*


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

PUBCRAWL said:


> oops...
> this doesn't look like 4.5 chili rating for the Wilma 6, looks more like 3 to me.
> 
> 
> ...


fixed!!!

the new beam patterns have been added here:
https://www.mtbr.com/2008lights/backyard_compare.html

fc


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

I got the Iblaast! Man, what a nice light. Also got three lights from Blackburn.

And the Cygolite I should be able to borrow one. One final push....

fc


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

francois said:


> I got the Iblaast! Man, what a nice light. Also got three lights from Blackburn.
> 
> And the Cygolite I should be able to borrow one. One final push....
> 
> fc


Really interested in the IBlaast. It looks like getting one mounted on a helmet might be a pain. I can't tell how well the bar mount would be either. Is the controler for the admin modes just a button? (they talk about it, but never actually point it out to uneducated people like moi)

I also really like the Exposure lights, but it is just so hard to know if the lights will provide enough illumination when on the trail. I might have to buy them to play with, since the provide a $ back guarantee...


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> It looks like getting one mounted on a helmet might be a pain. .


The helmet mount is indeed the only weak point of this otherwise brilliant light.

The little strips of velcro you are supposed to fix (peeling off the back) to your helmet fins simply don't work (on my Bell).

I fixed this by using a couple of zip ties going under the fin and 'through' the polystyrene helmet body and that is now rock solid

I used the iBlaast the other night for the first time and on the trail it was awesome (combined with a L&M ARC on the bars) giving more light than you would ever need (until Nightlightning upgrade it...)


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Come on Francois, with all this rain it should be easy to post up everything but a ride report on the iBlaast... ;-)


----------



## DH_WP (Feb 5, 2004)

*I love my Iblast... and mounting is rather easy..*

I think it has more to do with helmet choice...
Using the tape I got with the light.. I have never had the light come off.. even after hitting some branches.


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

hmm.... nice new helmet. Here's mine

Also, on last night's ride (2nd ride out with it) a branch hit the light and the glue holding the velcro onto the light's bracket broke and folded back...


----------



## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Interesting seeing the mounting position of the lights on the helmet. I tend to mount mine more to the front as far as possible usually it reaches the front visor.


----------



## NoBalance (Feb 23, 2007)

Try this far back. Its actually not a bad place because the further back you have it the less you feel it when you are riding and your head is surely not facing straight ahead.


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

DH_WP said:


> I think it has more to do with helmet choice...
> Using the tape I got with the light.. I have never had the light come off.. even after hitting some branches.


Could you post up some review comments on your iBlaast experience? Like Bonsetter2004?

Thanks!


----------



## DH_WP (Feb 5, 2004)

Yea.. I try and put it up as high as possible to balance the weight... to far forward and it feels like am dozing off.. .
what Ill do tonight is take my Topeak HID and put it against the blast... Ill try use the same camera settings as in the test... that way you will get a better idea....


----------



## DH_WP (Feb 5, 2004)

*Some Amature photos "Blast and Toepeak Moonshine HID*

Ok... it was alot darker when i was outside.. on the pictures it looks as if it is daylight.... but here goes..
First pictures I aimed the lights at a wall.. 10 meters away... 
First picture is the Ibast against the wall.
Second pictures teh HID against the wall...
Third picture Iblast and my bike "10 meters away"
Fourth picture HID and the bike...

I do have alot of light noise from other sources, but I live in the city and at the moment it is hard to get to somewhere darker without fearing for my life...

I will try and take some more pictures when I head out to the forest at one of the night rides... I think that would be a better test


----------



## Ted (Jan 29, 2004)

I thought there were going to be some homebuilt lights in the shootout. Did I miss them?


----------



## Fender Roads (Jan 31, 2008)

*TridenX?*

Wasn't someone going to swing by and let you test out their Cygolite TridenX? I can get a great deal on it and was wondering how it stacks up versus the Dinotte 600 and the TriNewt...


----------



## thinkcooper (Mar 21, 2006)

Fender Roads said:


> Wasn't someone going to swing by and let you test out their Cygolite TridenX? I can get a great deal on it and was wondering how it stacks up versus the Dinotte 600 and the TriNewt...


I'm planning on getting together with francois once he returns from the bike show in Portland so he can measure my TridenX. There's a good TridenX thread here with comparisons - check it out.

I'm digging the TridenX a lot. Light weight. Good spread. Good controls and battery life indicator. Solid handlebar mount. The prices on eBay are decent enough that it might be worth it to me to pick up a second to get a spare battery, charger and mount, and then use the second light on a helmet.


----------



## MR99SI (Aug 7, 2007)

thinkcooper said:


> I'm planning on getting together with francois once he returns from the bike show in Portland so he can measure my TridenX. There's a good TridenX thread here with comparisons - check it out.
> 
> I'm digging the TridenX a lot. Light weight. Good spread. Good controls and battery life indicator. Solid handlebar mount. The prices on eBay are decent enough that it might be worth it to me to pick up a second to get a spare battery, charger and mount, and then use the second light on a helmet.


Got a link?


----------



## cartographer (Jun 20, 2006)

One quick request...

Put them all on your bike at once and see if you can start a fire.


Wonderful work!


----------



## Fender Roads (Jan 31, 2008)

*TridenX?*

Just checking back... any "official" comparison done yet? Seems like this shootout has died :-(


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Fender Roads said:


> Just checking back... any "official" comparison done yet? Seems like this shootout has died :-(


More likely just washed out, soggy, but not drowned.


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

Francois, When are you going to finish the iBlaast review?????


----------



## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Francois, When are you going to finish the iBlaast review?????


Yes, there are a number of lights that say "pending" but i am starting to wonder if there are intentions to complete the reviews on the remaining lights that are listed.


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

rkj__ said:


> Yes, there are a number of lights that say "pending" but i am starting to wonder if there are intentions to complete the reviews on the remaining lights that are listed.


Why yes!!! The Iblaast will be done this week as well ast the NightFlux. Both are amazing lights!

All the others will be done before Sea Otter.

Sorry, I've been away at the Handmade show and Tour of California. But we're back. 

francois


----------



## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

francois said:


> and Tour of California. But we're back.
> 
> francois


Ah, i knew you were off to the handmade bike show, but did not know that you went off to the tour as well. I now understand the delay.


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

francois said:


> Why yes!!! The Iblaast will be done this week as well ast the NightFlux. Both are amazing lights!
> 
> francois


Hoooraarrrhhhh!!

good on yer Francois

Looking forward to them


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

The NiteFLUX Photon Max is done. The Lux comparsion table will be updated soon.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/niteflux-photon-max/

We're back in the light review business! 

fc


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

great fc! :thumbsup:


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

francois said:


> The NiteFLUX Photon Max is done. The Lux comparsion table will be updated soon.
> 
> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/niteflux-photon-max/
> 
> ...


Hey Francios, Are you going to review the iBlaast?


----------



## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

Wish I Were Riding said:


> Hey Francios, Are you going to review the iBlaast?


read post #202


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

DH_WP said:


> Ok... it was alot darker when i was outside.. on the pictures it looks as if it is daylight.... but here goes..
> First pictures I aimed the lights at a wall.. 10 meters away...
> First picture is the Ibast against the wall.
> Second pictures teh HID against the wall...
> ...


I know that Ibis mojo with Blue linkages bits and pieces.
I also know that the city skyline.

DH _WP fits the initials and provincial locatio of someone I know too...

You have been outed Mr Toad 

As a happy user of the iBlaast I will say that at every Night ride where I have the opportunity, I demonstrate the performance of iBlaast against a Lupine Edison 10.
It's brighter than the Lupine when the Edison is at low beam and the iBlaast is high beam.
The Edisons High beam is slightly brighter and wider than the iBlaast. You don't notice it though.
So assuming the Lupine's lumen rating is correct, I'd say that the iBlaast is pretty close to the claimed light output.

it is certainly a lot brighter than an Exposure and a little brighter than a TriNewt on the trail...in my experience


----------



## onixbonilla (Sep 30, 2007)

Hi Francois. 
First let me tell you that your light work is the most complete on LED matters. Hope it continue to expand to others lights. At present I run with Lupines. Very happy with them. The best I had, including Night Riders, Light and Motion and Hope.
But that beamshot of the Trail Tech SCMR16 took me off guard!!! :eekster: I know is big and heavy but I am waiting for your full review on it. Any advance info that you can give us now?
Thanks:thumbsup:


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

francois said:


> Why yes!!! The Iblaast will be done this week as well ast the NightFlux. Both are amazing lights!


Yo Francois, That was 2 weeks ago. Lay the iBlaast review on us please!


----------



## nila (Apr 1, 2008)

Hiya,
Just wondering - the AyUp's that you reviewed here - they sound like the old model not the '08 models that they are now selling?
Supposedly the new ones are alot better and just wondering if you were going to review them too?

Thanks


----------



## marquis_quis (Mar 7, 2008)

*Wanted to Show my Set-Up ! ! !*









MY BIG NEW LIGHTS . . .

MB riding at night is Sweet ! ! ! RCP is in sub of Dallas and has become an even more

Fun spot to get some night time riding in at. I had a nasty spill, that I needed a replacement

frame from Trek, before heading back out. Trek worked with the bike shop " RBM", and I

received an even stronger, and plain nicer 8500 hard-tail Frame.

Anyways, a big Thanks to all that helped in my ordeal. . . AND I wanted to show my new

Giro Helmet / Nite-rider 'Mi~Newt' Light combo ! ! ! What You Think ? ? ?


----------



## nila (Apr 1, 2008)

Looks pretty damn sweet 

Was thinking about getting those lights and they sure look sweet.
If it wasn't for their poor battery life I'd have got them!


----------



## HardTail610 (Apr 6, 2005)

*Additional batteries*

Thanks for all the great info.

It would be great if the cost of additional batteries were also included as some of us need them to for longer night rides (24) and while the costs may look comparable, if one light set comes with a 3 hour battery and another comes with 12 hours of battery, then that really impacts the true costs.

Keep up the great work.


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I wish Francios wasn't so busy having fun. I'm still waiting for the official iBlaast review...


----------



## asdasd123123 (Apr 21, 2008)

I don't care about the lights, give me your camera!


----------



## rotobob (Nov 14, 2004)

I just this week ordered a new iBlaast from NightLighting. Before they shipped it they gave me the option for the new iBlaast2, not yet on their website. It has around 1000 claimed lumens, can't remember exact amount, but it was onlt $40 more than 720 lumen model. This is not the Dual head unit on their site. I think the gist was this would have new Cree LED's instead of the U-bin P4. Which Cree LED, I don't know.

It's the first one to ship, so I am told, so I'll give some report when I get it next week. The only thing I have to compare it to is a Jet Phantom at 14.8V, which is pretty decent, but not exactly apples to apples.


----------



## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

rotobob said:


> I just this week ordered a new iBlaast from NightLighting. Before they shipped it they gave me the option for the new iBlaast2, not yet on their website. It has around 1000 claimed lumens, can't remember exact amount, but it was onlt $40 more than 720 lumen model. This is not the Dual head unit on their site. I think the gist was this would have new Cree LED's instead of the U-bin P4. Which Cree LED, I don't know.


Is it not with the 4-led kit from Cutter?


----------



## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

rotobob said:


> I just this week ordered a new iBlaast from NightLighting. Before they shipped it they gave me the option for the new iBlaast2, not yet on their website. It has around 1000 claimed lumens, can't remember exact amount, but it was onlt $40 more than 720 lumen model. This is not the Dual head unit on their site. I think the gist was this would have new Cree LED's instead of the U-bin P4. Which Cree LED, I don't know.
> 
> It's the first one to ship, so I am told, so I'll give some report when I get it next week. The only thing I have to compare it to is a Jet Phantom at 14.8V, which is pretty decent, but not exactly apples to apples.


Looking forward to your review and comparison to the Jet Phantom! :thumbsup:


----------



## rotobob (Nov 14, 2004)

radirpok said:


> Is it not with the 4-led kit from Cutter?


I really don't know, to be sure, but I was told it was the same light, but with newer, brighter LED's. Also, she said the runtimes would be the same, so this leads be to believe it's still 3. Actually, now that I'm looking around the net, these LED's must be the Cree R2, if the layout is the same as the original iBlaast.

I guess I'll know when I get it.


----------



## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

rotobob said:


> I really don't know, to be sure, but I was told it was the same light, but with newer, brighter LED's. Also, she said the runtimes would be the same, so this leads be to believe it's still 3. Actually, now that I'm looking around the net, these LED's must be the Cree R2, if the layout is the same as the original iBlaast.
> 
> I guess I'll know when I get it.


cool! keep us posted


----------



## MtnLight (Sep 29, 2005)

I'm thinking of getting Niteflux Photon Max but I'll wait for your review for the iBlaast2.

Did you get Nightlighting Li-ion battery too?


----------



## rotobob (Nov 14, 2004)

I did not get any batteries from Nightlighting because I already had 3 14.8V Li-ion 6000mah DIY setups. They are pricy as well, but so are all batteries from light companies. I ordered the iBlaast with bare leads so I could wire it up myself. btw, I think most of their lights are available as a DIY kit as well.


----------



## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

rotobob said:


> I really don't know, to be sure, but I was told it was the same light, but with newer, brighter LED's. Also, she said the runtimes would be the same, so this leads be to believe it's still 3. Actually, now that I'm looking around the net, these LED's must be the Cree R2, if the layout is the same as the original iBlaast.
> 
> I guess I'll know when I get it.


Yes, it is the Cree R w/3 led's. I'm having them send me the led's so I can upgrade mine.


----------



## rotobob (Nov 14, 2004)

OK...

I got the iBlaast 2 today...I'm going to start a new thread about it... just search for it.

EDIT: So never mind the search, here it is...
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=409770

Pretty badarse if you ask me...


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

radirpok said:


> Is it not with the 4-led kit from Cutter?


Someone has been very very very naughty.....


----------



## abster55 (Jul 27, 2008)

Can MTBR.com test budget lights, like lights cheaper than $50. I think many riders would appreciate this. thanks!


----------



## Entrenador (Oct 8, 2004)

*Bump...*



francois said:


> These are coming. 2 models arriving today...
> 
> fc


Any word on the Princeton Tec lights yet? Or are they too techy/geeky for you Whistler DH types ?


----------



## Cino (Oct 31, 2007)

Isn't it time to update the shootout w/ the latest offerings from Dinotte, L&M, Lupine, etc?


----------



## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Cino said:


> Isn't it time to update the shootout w/ the latest offerings from Dinotte, L&M, Lupine, etc?


We have a bunch of new lights. like the L&M Seca, Lupine 5, Ayup, HID tech.

Just waiting on a couple more.

fc


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

francois said:


> We have a bunch of new lights. like the L&M Seca, Lupine 5, Ayup, HID tech.
> 
> Just waiting on a couple more.
> 
> fc


Great!....see if you can get the Cygolite Trion 600 and the Dinotte 400L :thumbsup: note: with the Dinotte 400L we need to see the spot optics..


----------



## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

francois said:


> We have a bunch of new lights. like the L&M Seca, Lupine 5, Ayup, HID tech.
> 
> Just waiting on a couple more.
> 
> fc


That will be the best collective reveiw on the 'Net I would've thought. Thanks fc :thumbsup:

I'm looking at changing my helmet light (iBlaast) for one which doesn't branch hook... like the look of the Ay-Up!'s


----------



## campykid (Jun 24, 2007)

*iblaast2 vs. Photon max vs. Hope Vision4*

I have been awaiting a review of the iblaast2 but I need a new light as soon as possible. Does anybody have any experience with comparing the above 3 lights?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

campykid said:


> I have been awaiting a review of the iblaast2 but I need a new light as soon as possible. Does anybody have any experience with comparing the above 3 lights?


Iblaast2 is being sent they said. But I haven't seen them yet.

fc


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## michaelsnead (Aug 31, 2005)

*Will you be testing the 2009 Exposure Lights MaXx D?*



francois said:


> Iblaast2 is being sent they said. But I haven't seen them yet.
> 
> fc


Hi fc,

Will you be updating your tests to include the 2009 Exposure Lights MaXx D?

http://www.exposurelights.com/products/maxx_d/index.php

I believe you liked these lights (Joystick included) from last year but commented that they didn't put out quite as much light as advertised. I'm curious how they'll stack up against the competition now that they have a 4 LED model. Thanks for doing all this work and sharing the results!

Michael:thumbsup:


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

michaelsnead said:


> Hi fc,
> 
> Will you be updating your tests to include the 2009 Exposure Lights MaXx D?
> 
> ...


Yes, sure. James from Exposure said he'll send over a set as soon as they're ready.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Here's the cool new Exposure stuff btw.

fc


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## bonesetter2004 (May 27, 2007)

*Very cool indeed*

Love the fact of no messy cables

What's the red thing pointing upwards you're holding?


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

francois said:


> Here's the cool new Exposure stuff btw.
> 
> fc


A friend just got the new 09 Exposure lights, and we are going out for his first night ride tonight. I'll see if he can post comments. Now if the weather holds so he can race Chamberlin Ranch 24 hour next weekend, fingers crossed.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

wow..those new exposure lights look sweet, fc!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

bonesetter2004 said:


> Love the fact of no messy cables
> 
> What's the red thing pointing upwards you're holding?


I believe that is a very bright tail light. It's powered by the main unit.
http://www.exposurelights.com/products/redeye/index.php

fc


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## Okie Dokie (May 14, 2008)

Rode with Slocaus last night with new 2009 Exposure Enduro Maxx2 and Joystick Maxx2. I do not have any previous experience with night riding so no reference point to base the light on. That being said however I loved the lights.

Love the case as it keeps everything neat and tidy and nothing will get lost. Lights mounted in no time at all and appear solidly built. As for the lighting it provided I found that I had more then enough light between the joystick on my helmet and the Enduro on my handlebars. And after looking at Slocaus' battery and cable wrapped around his top tube I was very happy to have the wire free Exposure lights. To be honest with the top tube of the SC LT2 I dont know where I would put a battery if I needed to.

All in all I am a very happy customer. I am thankful Slocaus recommended these lights to me when he did.


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## IBEX Sports (Oct 30, 2008)

francois said:


> Yes, sure. James from Exposure said he'll send over a set as soon as they're ready.
> 
> fc


Hi Francois,

A MaXx D is on the way to you!
Thanks for putting those images you took at Interbike in this thread and again nice seeing you there and it was great to meet Forest as well...We appreciate all of your efforts.

Also to all here-

With MTBR's permission we have now set up this forum user ID as a resource for anyone who may have questions or concerns about Exposure lights. Please feel free to email or PM me as needed. I will be as helpful as I possibly can be. Here at Exposure lights USA, we all ride with pride and try to be very active in our local riding community sponsoring organizations such as NEMBA and IMBA as well as being active in local group rides and other events.

I myself have been riding bicycles since I was four years old, now 36 years young. 
I chose the Bike Industry as my "career path" about 22 years ago. I started with overhauling coaster brakes and fixing flats in my LBS as a high school student. I moved on to a few different bike shops and various other aspects of shop operation as I became more experienced through life, eventually becoming Head Mechanic and Service Manager for a Seacoast New Hampshire bike shop. Now, it's nice to be here with Exposure Lights USA and IBEX Sports Inc. just chilling and worrying about my own fleet of bikes. (They tick like clocks) I get to ride as much as possible and travel, but still get to chat about bike parts and bikes in general. Passion, Passion, Passion....

I offer my service to the MTBR forum community. Since Exposure Lights USA is consumer direct, it allows us to service the end user directly. We handle sales, service, warranty and technical support all right here in NH. If you call, 9 times out of 10 you will get one of us on the phone, either me or James. If your call goes to VM, we will call back within minutes on business days. If you email you will get a response within a couple of hours during business hours...most times I will respond to emails on the weekend if I am just checking in.

I admit, I am a non-know it all and we are humble in our approach.

Please feel free to give us a call or email.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

[email protected] Lights USA said:


> Hi Francois,
> 
> ...
> 
> Please feel free to give us a call or email.


Nice Steve! I love it when manufacturers participate in the forums!

Can you explain my photos a bit? How many lumens for the MaXx D? Is that a remote switch, new mount for the joystick? How bright is that tail light and is it tethered to the Maxx light?

fc


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## IBEX Sports (Oct 30, 2008)

Francois,
Glad to be a member of the community...Which I have been for a while under a more personal ID.

Just to clarify...We are the North American Importer and Exclusive Retailer for Exposure Lights.

The Maxx D is 960 lumens.

Yes there is a remote switch coming for the 2009 Maxx2 product range. We anticipate delivery to the US around November 28th. This basically plugs into the charge port and it will turn the lights on or off and control the light output settings. I used the remote switch in your photo last night for the first time and it was great to be able to keep the hands on the bars and power up or down as needed. 

The new Joystick bar mount is so much better than last years. It now uses the same QR mount as the regular bar mounted units (Race, Enduro, MaxxD) and has a machined plastic mount that clips into the QR mount just like the "cleat" on the bar mounted lights. You can either take the clip and light out together or just pop the light into the clip and ride away. 

The Red Eye tail light is incredibly bright, certainly one of the brightest rear lights on the market. Encased in a CNC machined aluminum body which is fully waterproof. The RedEye uses the same 240Lumen P4 LED as the Joystick Maxx2 but in Red. Because it is so bright, it is designed to run at approximately one third of the MaXx setting. Burn times will be slightly reduced on the front light when running the RedEye. 

The new 2009 MaXx2 Lights Range now all have "SPT" Smart Port Technology. This allows the use of the Remote Switch and is the power supply for the RedEye and RedEye Micro. The piggyback batteries are also compatible with the 2009 lights as they were with the 2008 MaXx. Because the 2008 MaXx did not have SPT, they will not work with the Remote Switch and RedEye lights. 

To add to your question about the RedEye. It plugs into the charge port and receives it's power from the main light unit. The Red Eye can be helmet mounted or mounted on the frame or seat post and the wire would be run along the top tube or coiled around the unit when mounted on the helmet.

Steve


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

I am really interested in the Exposure lights, only one thing holding me back......the cost. I really like the idea of no wires and how adjustable the light direction is. But I don't like that the battery can't be removed to be replace should it go bad. Does the battery even have a warranty? Seems like they should have replaceable batteries instead of an "iPod" like attitude towards built in batteries. Even if it is a specialized battery, it should be a type an owner can purchase and replace themselves. Also here in the States we seem to be at the mercy of Exposure prices as there is only one U.S. retailer. It is going to almost force me to purchase something else. What shall I do?


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## IBEX Sports (Oct 30, 2008)

Resist-
I am aware of your concern on the pricing and honestly, I am not sure we can satisfy you. We have dropped the prices now twice due to the US Dollar getting stronger against the British pound. We are at the mercy of the Foreign exchange rate and I can assure you if you could buy these lights at your LBS they we be even more expensive!

You're right, the battery can not be serviced by the end user. Exposure uses the highest quality Sanyo batteries specially made for these lights. With *regular use* and *proper care*, one should expect the battery to last up to five years time before needing replacement. At that time or any time before that if your light should need repair for any reason, the process is pretty simple. Return the light to us and we will either repair it in house or send it to the UK and have them take care of it. One thing we do that no one in the Bike Lighting industry does (that I am aware of) is, we will not leave you in the dark! In most cases, especially in the light season, we will issue a "loaner" demo light while yours is being serviced or we may just straight up replace the unit for you. This is on a case by case basis as every situation is unique. To answer your question about the Warranty, the light has a 2 year warranty tip to tail and the LED's have a lifetime warranty.

I hope this helps with your decision making process? If you want something bad enough....just go get it!


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

Do you ever have an all in one package deal? I am interested in the Joystick and the new "D" light, with tail lights. It is still a lot of money considering other bike light companies are giving discounts right now.


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## IBEX Sports (Oct 30, 2008)

Resist said:


> Do you ever have an all in one package deal? I am interested in the Joystick and the new "D" light, with tail lights. It is still a lot of money considering other bike light companies are giving discounts right now.


PM Sent


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

Francois, Did you get the "D" light to review yet?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Resist said:


> Francois, Did you get the "D" light to review yet?


No it got lost in the mail. But I get it tomorrow from the post office.

I've been doing some rides though with some light redundancy.

fc


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

That 800L has a whole lotta bulk!


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

francois said:


> No it got lost in the mail.


Oh man, wish it ended up at my house. 

I am that close to pulling the plug and buying an Exposure light setup. So I will be following your review closely.


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## rdhood (Jul 30, 2008)

eddielee70 said:


> I can't wait to see the Trail Tech 30w HID flood compare to the Betty.


I cant understand why there is no love for the Trail-Tech 13W and 30W hids in this forum? Or why nobody is building lights out of them? You can get a self contained light/ballast in a mountable housing for $120 (13W) AND $150 (30w) and these things put out a ton of light, but nobody seems to be building with them. Add $12 for a mount and $70 for a battery, and you could build a heckuva light with one of these units for under $200. Why havent folks embraced them?


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

rdhood said:


> I cant understand why there is no love for the Trail-Tech 13W and 30W hids in this forum? Or why nobody is building lights out of them? You can get a self contained light/ballast in a mountable housing for $120 (13W) AND $150 (30w) and these things put out a ton of light, but nobody seems to be building with them. Add $12 for a mount and $70 for a battery, and you could build a heckuva light with one of these units for under $200. Why havent folks embraced them?


People like the long service life of LEDs, and the small packages they come in. The trail tech lights are pretty big. The illumination does look fantastic though.


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## mtnbkr33 (Jul 19, 2005)

Hey guys I just got my Dinotte 800 and 400 and I noticed just by playing around the clamp does not stay closed just like the picture above. Is this an issue?


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Yeah, you have the lever flipped in the wrong direction. Undo the lever, turn the lever 180 degrees and lock it by flipping it back towards you (lever is flipping away from you in pic)

Can you see the difference in this picture? Disregard the direction of the lighthead.









Here is another pic 
https://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2080


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## mtnbkr33 (Jul 19, 2005)

scar said:


> Yeah, you have the lever flipped in the wrong direction. Undo the lever, turn the lever 180 degrees and lock it by flipping it back towards you (lever is flipping away from you in pic)
> 
> Can you see the difference in this picture?


Perfect! Thanks!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mtnbkr33 said:


> Perfect! Thanks!


Ha. It would have taken me months to figure that out. Thanks! I love this mtbr website information superhighway thing.

fc


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

Francois, how is that Exposure "D" working out?


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Well, Scar has a simulation lab set up in his trunk...you should see that!


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

Flyer said:


> Well, Scar has a simulation lab set up in his trunk...you should see that!


Huh?


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The ScarMobile has more LEDs in the trunk and who knows where else. When he opens the trunk in the parking lot before at a night ride, there isn't any mistaking his car.


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

.......okay.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*ScarMobile*


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Resist said:


> Francois, how is that Exposure "D" working out?


It's going awesome!! 

I was on a ride last night at Waterdog Park in Norcal. It was just after 6pm and I passed a small lake in a gully. As I entered the main trail, a young lady asked me if I saw her dog in the lake. I said 'No, it's dark there.' She said the dog is a Pointer and it freaked out and chased some ducks in the lake about 2 hours ago. It went back to its roots and became unresponsive to her.

Anyway, it was dark and I had four lights so I went back to the lake with her. I put the bike down with the Dinotte 800 and Lupine Wilma 5 and turned on the lights onto the lake. I then gave her the Exposure D light and I used my Ayup 2009 helmet spot and scanned the lake. We saw the dog swimming all around the water chasing 2 ducks. Nikko the dog did this for about 15 minutes. When the dog got near to us at about 20 yards. The young lady tucked her shirt in and said 'I'm going in swimming after her'. What da? It was cold and the water was green so I told her not to do it.

Anyway, the dog parked himself in the inaccessible marsh on the other side. We scanned for a while and I told her about a narrow dead end trail at the side of the lake. She took the Exposure D and went that way. 5 minutes later, she shrieked and said, 'I got him!'

Anyway, she was ecstatic. She thanked me 10 million times and this morning she emailed me and wants to take me out to dinner. I'm a married spud so I'll have to decline.

Anyway, the Exposure D saved the day. I rode for another hour alternating between lights. And of course on the home stretch, I turned on all the lights and it looked like a scene from ET. Photos and Lux measurements are coming next week in the shootout. The Exposure D is much wider than the Maxx and is thus more usable. It is noticeably brighter than the Maxx and can be used without a helmet light comfortably.

fc


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## Rallyator (Nov 11, 2008)

Can someone review the Lupine Tesla?. Thanks.



....Disregard, I´ve already seen it in other thread, sorry.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Rallyator said:


> Can someone review the Lupine Tesla?. Thanks.
> 
> ....Disregard, I´ve already seen it in other thread, sorry.


I'll do a good one next week when I get it


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

francois said:


> The Exposure D is much wider than the Maxx and is thus more usable. It is noticeably brighter than the Maxx and can be used without a helmet light comfortably.


Great story but, I though the Exposure D is a Maxx light? I'm confused.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*francois*, I hate to ask this but just couldn't resist...You mean the lady was out at dark and had no light or torch with her  The lady is more lucky than she realized. First, you helped her find her dog...secondly, you helped her get out of the woods...Last but not least, you probably saved her life by convincing her not to go into the water. Since you're married I suppose it was expedient not to accept the dinner offer...but...you might have given her your full name and address...you know...in case she might want to put you in her Will...never know when the dog will take another swim.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Resist said:


> Great story but, I though the Exposure D is a Maxx light? I'm confused.


You are correct sir. I was comparing it to the Enduro Maxx, the one with 3 LEDs.

fc


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Cat-man-do said:


> *francois*, I hate to ask this but just couldn't resist...You mean the lady was out at dark and had no light or torch with her  The lady is more lucky than she realized. First, you helped her find her dog...secondly, you helped her get out of the woods...Last but not least, you probably saved her life by convincing her not to go into the water. Since you're married I suppose it was expedient not to accept the dinner offer...but...you might have given her your full name and address...you know...in case she might want to put you in her Will...never know when the dog will take another swim.


She came out at about 4pm for an afternoon run in daylight so I don't think she expected to be out in the dark. After the ordeal, she said she was parked a mile away so I insisted she take one of the lights and mail it back to me. But it was a full moon with clear fire road and she declined.

I looked her up and she is a Stanford, HBS grad and now a high-powered attorney. Perhaps I should be in that will!

Anyway, here's a photo of the lake.

fc


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

uh, francois, that's a pond, a duck pond. A lake is acres in size and has a name on the map of it.


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## Resist (Aug 13, 2008)

Francois, when are we going to be able to read the new review for the Exposure D?


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

francois said:


> That's 16 Lux. I have a page dedicated just for the light meter test but it's not ready yet. Here's a sneak peak.
> 
> The light is pointed at the ceiling and the meter is beside it, pointed up as well.
> 
> ...


Hi, to what distance of the light have measured you the lux of the lights?

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

msxtr said:


> Hi, to what distance of the light have measured you the lux of the lights?


If you look back through the thread, Frances describes the setup - basically both light and meter are pointed at the ceiling of his garage, which is acting like a crude integrating sphere.


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## Cino (Oct 31, 2007)

Francois, is the Cygolite Trion 600 on your list?


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