# building up a Chinese hardtail.



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

*Chinese Hardtail build, internal cable mod(Pg 7)*

so i decided my sette ace frame is is overdue.. the shock is leaking and i broke a pivot bolt a while ago so i have a carbon hardtail frame on order. the frame is has an ISM on it too.
ill be changing a lot of things on my setup to hopefully build a nice race bike. so here are the planned specs/weights.

Brake: Hayes stroker grams............................................. .......................228/246
Brake Rotor: kcnc razor 160/140............................................... ...............74/61
Brake Rotor Bolts: 6ti 6blue alloy............................................. ................?
Cables: powercords........................................ .........................................4g
Cassette: 11-36(probubly XX)................................................................ .....?
Chain: kmc sl10(or yaban)................................. .........................................240ish
Crankset: extralite e bones w/ homebrewed 35t..........................................502+40
Derlr (R): sram x.0 with afc pullys, alloy bolts + 09 med derailleur cage + carbon inner plate .......171g
Fork: Magura durin sl+starnut........................................ ............................1357
Frame: Carbon............................................ ..........................................hope fully low
Grips: bonty xxx light)............................................ .................................20
Handlebar: KCNC sc bone.(maybe something else at 620mm.......................115
Headset: Not sure yet maybe kcnc............................................................?
Pedals: Crank Bro's egg beater 2ti with ward axles.....................................182
Seat: Bonty evoke carbon............................................... ........................144g
Seatpost clamp: stock topper unless i have one made................................?
Shifters: xx rear(doesn't have a clamp yet)..................................................80g
Skewers: j&l flyweight (maybe quick release is in order..).............................32g
Stem: rotor sl2 w steel bolts(stock bolts suck! ill order ti to get the weight back)..........96+10?
Top cap/spacers: carbon and alloy bolt .................................................. ...12g
Tire (Front): currently schwalbe roc ron performance 2.25.............................485
Tire (Rear): kenda karma(best cheap xc rear tire ive ever ridden!)...................475
Wheelset: 1305g
Wheel Front: 592g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Front ........80g!..........................80g!........ ........80(verified!)!! 
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine .................................................. .......................326
Spokes: DT 1.8's (because a stiff wheel is a better wheel) w/ nipple's............186
Wheel Rear: 713g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Rear.............................................. .................200g!
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine............................................ ............................. 327
Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipples........................................... ..........................186
Overall: should be 7900-8200g or 17.5lbs to 18.5lbs(an estimate)

bonty saddle good shape and should improve the comfort of the hardtail. 









Homebrewed alloy 35t









Sram XX rear Shifter at 80g + powercord at 4g(im going to try and get one of those silly light plastic clamps that popped up not long ago)









Bonty XXX grips(love the diameter of them and lighter then ESI)









my modded x0 rear derailleur. i had a spare 9speed cage in med so i modified the mounting pin for the new style 10speed took a few days to do but its on! i bought it as a long cage but sincie its going to be a 1 by 10 it was not necessary(got a good deal on the bay) so i was able to use my existing 9 speed inner carbon plate too!


















As some of the other parts come off my sette ill post more pics
but there is how it was before taking parts off..









What do you guys think? should i change something else?


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Looks like a nice race bike! The Bontrager saddle is awesome, very comfortable!
I'd change the Seat mast for something lighter(KCNC, Tune, MCFK), the seat mast that usually come on the ebay frames are very heavy.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

one in blue might be nice  

they tell me the mast size is 31.6 which doesnt make sense to me...


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## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

How much did the frame cost you?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

31.6mm is a pretty common seat post size


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

newnan3 said:


> How much did the frame cost you?


$410usd



rockyuphill said:


> 31.6mm is a pretty common seat post size


thats what i have currently but the frame has a seatmast. so it requires a topper and i haven't been able to find a seatmast topper of that size.


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## dogdaysunrise (May 15, 2011)

Looks awesome, would look so much better imo with a black seatpost.
That blue doesn't match anything on the bike and looks faded.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

New frame wont have it. The new frame will have an integrated seat post to it so it will be all black.

considering a 
http://mcfk.de/Produkte/Lenker.php

maybe some hope race x2's or magura marta sls or kcnc x7's


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

just ordered some KCNC X7 brakes along with a kcnc headset spacer and topcap.

just need to order a chain and cassette still.


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## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

I havent seen any reviews on the kcnc brakes..........It'll be interesting to hear how they perform.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

it just may take a while before that happens :/


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

KCNC brakes showed up today! i think the front weighed 169 and rear 187g ashima rotors both 160mm are 87g and 85g so ill be adding weight there since the rear is an IS mount and has to use the 160mm. 

it includes ti bolts for mounting and larger levers and biddies and fittings for trimming the hose. 

prepping the garage for a yard sale so there isnt any room in there to get good pictures. but expect some by tonight.


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## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

Sweet! Lets see em!

I wonder why they arent more popular.........?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

some pretty bad shots.. when the garage is cleaned ill get some good shots for you allong with some of the other gizmo's for the bike..


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

bars 115g 
stem 97g
front brake 169g
rear brake 187g
front shifter 84g +11g clamp..
grips 20g

totals to 683g!

















booyaa!

gonna order some quick release skewers that look just like tune but are unbranded.. still need to repaint the fork and order cassette and chain.


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## FNFAL (Feb 5, 2009)

I have a question.

I see you are running a 1x9. What chain guide are you using?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

its currently a paul components. i made one that was 14g but the band didn't stay secure. so i will hit the paul with a rotary tool and get its weight down


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## jwkj101401 (Mar 28, 2011)

What are you going to do with the sette frame? Would you want to sell it, from your post it looks as if I would need to a new pivot bolt and shock but just curious if you would be willing to sell?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

sold it a while ago. i had spare bolts for it

helped buy the brakes!


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

another goddie!


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

What skewers are those if you don't mind?


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

The grips are too heavy. The new 2011 Scott foam one is only 14gr a pair (weighted and confirmed myself). The XX cassette is 204gr.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

bikerboyj17 said:


> What skewers are those if you don't mind?


My buddy sells them, they dont have a brand and he sells them around $60 i think. lighter then kcnc and cheaper. lever is just like tune but the plate it folds against is a lot bigger. pm me if you want his contact #.



Veda said:


> The grips are too heavy. The new 2011 Scott foam one is only 14gr a pair (weighted and confirmed myself). The XX cassette is 204gr.


i had the kcnc before and didn't like them much.. so im trying to stick with something i know i will like. i had esi's before and there awesome but to heavy for this build 

im very happy with the build so far! considering some lighter rotors too..

i still dont know what size the mast topper is but the retailer told my that the non isp version uses a 31.6 post so if the mast has an inner diameter of 31.6 ill chop my kcnc post to sub 100mm and get some smud carbon thompson cradels and alloy bolts to help support the carbon railed saddle.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

rear wheel cleaned up! damn temp. cheap steel cassette damaged the freehub so i had to clean it up..
721g w/ yellow tape 









835g w/ rotor, bolts and skewer.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

frames in! should get most of it assembles today. pics to come soon.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

PHOTO EXTREME! :thumbsup:
1423g for the frame :/ heavier side of things but still a lot lighter then my old ace.








headset wasn't to bad at 84g








housings came in at 31g


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

an updated list.. totaling up to 7131g unfinished.
Still needs second cage, alloy bolts here and there, chain guide, topper, Chain, Cassette, and valves. Roughly 600g more without sealant. 

Brake: KCNC X7............................................. .......................169/187
Brake Rotor: kcnc Ashima 160............................................... ...............87/85
Brake Rotor Bolts: 6ti 6blue alloy............................................. ................24
Cables: powercords........................................ .........................................4g
Bottle Cage:Karbona Wing........................................................................25g
Cassette: 11-36 XX............................................... ................. .....?
Chain: kmc sl10................................. .........................................?
Crankset: extralite e bones .........................................................................502
Chain Ring: Homebrewed 35t........................................................................40
Bolts: Toronto................................................................................................?
Derlr (R): sram x.0 with afc pullys, alloy bolts + 09 med derailleur cage + carbon inner plate .......171g
Fork: Magura durin sl+starnut........................................ ............................1357
Frame: Carbon............................................ ..........................................1423
Grips: bonty xxx light............................................ .................................20
Handlebar: KCNC sc bone......................................................................115
Headset: China.............................................. .........................................84g
Pedals: Crank Bro's egg beater 2ti with ward axles.....................................182
Seat: Bonty evoke carbon............................................ ... ........................144g
Seatpost clamp: Tune Cappy Blue..................................................................?
Shifters: xx rear.................................................................................... ....91g
Skewers: TI w/ Carbon Handle....................................................................43
Stem: rotor sl2 ...................................................................................97g
Top cap/spacers: MSC and KCNC .................................................. ...?
Tire (Front): currently schwalbe roc ron performance 2.25.............................485
Tire (Rear): kenda karma(best cheap xc rear tire ive ever ridden!)...................475
Wheelset: 1305g
Wheel Front: 592g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Front ........80g!..........................80g!........ ........80(verified!)!! 
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine .................................................. .......................326
Spokes: DT 1.8's (because a stiff wheel is a better wheel) w/ nipple's............186
Wheel Rear: 713g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Rear.............................................. .................200g!
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine............................................ ............................. 327
Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipples........................................... ..........................186
Rim tape...............................................................................................16g
Valves Blue alloy.................................................................................?


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## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

friggin sweeeeet!


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

Nice parts spec.

Aesthetically, I'd paint the fork gloss black. Also, don't get anymore colored chains...stick to silver. Your Sette Ace made me think you're colorblind to some degree. Mixing random shades of the same color....:nono:


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## 2002maniac (Nov 17, 2008)

Sexy.


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

Nice build, which model frame did you get?


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## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

How much did you pay for the KCNC brakes if you dont mind me asking?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Kyle2834 said:


> Nice parts spec.
> 
> Aesthetically, I'd paint the fork gloss black. Also, don't get anymore colored chains...stick to silver. Your Sette Ace made me think you're colorblind to some degree. Mixing random shades of the same color....:nono:


as for the mixed blue's.. not all anodizing are the same. i didn't realize the blue of the kcnc post or alligator housings were going to be so light in color. it was upsetting to see them clash..

although the kcnc post is gone and the kcnc spacers will probably go too. i looked into nokon housings as the blue will match much better but there way to overpriced.

As for the white fork it's going to stay white. but probably get some stickers.

the frame is model#: FM016-SPL

Brakes came from: http://www.kingbarcelona.com/en/kcnc-x7-black-disc-brake-set-p-6990.html

cassette should be in transit from china(XX off ebay), Tune Cappy in blue, blue alloy valves, and kmc chain are comming from R2 just ordered those yesterday. may get POP's spacers from fairwheel and a topcap too.

Anyone got any other ideas? i'll probubly race on a karma/ ron or ralph combo or ralphs f and r.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

work on the chainguide began..

planned 25g final product. will hopefully have a few in production eventually.

so here are some photos of the process

back mounting bracket









how the screws fit









how it sits on the frame(rotate 90deg.)









the weight so far









the now navy blue bolts


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

as it sits in the picture it weighs in at 15g. i see it as possible to produce a minimalist style guide at 16/17g but this one will be around 25g and bulletproof. :thumbsup:


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Very interesting design! Can't wait to see how it ends up!


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## ilovecharlie (Sep 1, 2009)

haha! I saw these photos on facebook cause eliflap was tagged in them.. I was desperately trying to find more photos, should have know to check here first... good job, It looks awesome.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

ha! well the construction is going smoothly. although this guide will not have an adjustable distance but future ones will.be adjustable.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

more photo's! booyaa! will use this concept for adjustable distance(using spacers)


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## dogdaysunrise (May 15, 2011)

Very nice build!


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

thanks! still waiting on my seat topper and chain from R2 to make the bike rideable


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

a new goodie! were a team mates, he hated the harmonics so ill give em a shot


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

got the 1.5mm thick carbon and began fork on the guide section. the spacer has a extension that runs along side the screw that holds the two plates. the plates will get a different design to accommodate the high mount style of the frame. should finish it up tomorrow. will probably be 26g.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

weighing in at 24g as pictured! i'll probably remake the square plates since these ones aren't as appealing as they could be.. maybe a logo?

the design changed since when i tool'd the nylon block that holds the guide it let the cage flex. sitting like this there is less flex in the design.

seem's sturdy on the bike but wont know how strong it is till it's tested.


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## MaLoL1 (Jan 16, 2004)

man, get a single ring chain guide, or put a front deraulier with no cable. this thing yo are trying to build is pure crap, honestly.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

sorry if it's offended you but i'm going to make it work. i'll build up a second one that will have the errors of this one fixed.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> PHOTO EXTREME! :thumbsup:
> 1423g for the frame :/ heavier side of things but still a lot lighter then my old ace.


Nice brew below the baby expansion chamber :rockon:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

it was good enough to keep  that expansion chamber was for a 2stroke rc car.


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

I'm curious, how much was this frame again? Cuz the Hylix ht uses the same high modulus carbon as their handlebar and it doesn't have the old school weaved carbon that's prone to cracking. The Hylix is only $555 at claimed 1250gr.

Hylix carbon MTB/Mountain bike frame-XC/15~21"-1250g | eBay


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

mine was $500 shipped. 
if mine cracks i may send it for repair or just order a sette frame from pricepoint.
its supposed to have a one year warranty too.


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## strader (Jun 14, 2006)

Veda said:


> I'm curious, how much was this frame again? Cuz the Hylix ht uses the same high modulus carbon as their handlebar and it doesn't have the old school weaved carbon that's prone to cracking. The Hylix is only $555 at claimed 1250gr.
> 
> Hylix carbon MTB/Mountain bike frame-XC/15~21"-1250g | eBay


$555 is at the high end of the price spectrum for these frames. Geometry is pretty weird on that one, 23.7" top tube on a XL frame? That's shorter than the average size L frame in the US. A bit porky too at 3.2lbs.
The 3k weave on the outside of the frame is generally considered cosmetic.


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

strader said:


> $555 is at the high end of the price spectrum for these frames. Geometry is pretty weird on that one, 23.7" top tube on a XL frame? That's shorter than the average size L frame in the US. A bit porky too at 3.2lbs.
> The 3k weave on the outside of the frame is generally considered cosmetic.


Having seen other chinese carbon handlebars, the Hylix bar is by far stronger and thicker so I'm assuming their frame would be the same since it's touted to use the same carbon as the bar.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

we shall see, as i have heard there are only a handful of facilities that produce these frames so generally the quality isn't poor. in the pictures i posted you can see the imperfections in the cosmetic layer.


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## newnan3 (Sep 30, 2010)

So whats the verdict on the brakes?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

none yet... r2 bike hasn't shipped the last of the parts yet... 

although i refined the chainguide to use the bb spacer as a mount. 17g i could get up picks?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)




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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Nice! That's not a bad frame weight, considering the price and the integrated seat mast. That's a measure 10 times and cut once affair. Hey, nice little story in MBA!


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Nice! That's not a bad frame weight, considering the price and the integrated seat mast. That's a measure 10 times and cut once affair. Hey, nice little story in MBA!


They gave me another bikerack to test, it uses suction cups to mount to your car! its way cool but i haven't tested it yet 

the frame weight isn't to bad. as it sits at 10lbs 4oz thats with everything except: wheels, chain, mast topper, and saddle


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> They gave me another bikerack to test, it uses suction cups to mount to your car! its way cool but i haven't tested it yet
> 
> the frame weight isn't to bad. as it sits at 10lbs 4oz thats with everything except: wheels, chain, mast topper, and saddle


That would be very cool if it worked. Kinda scary if it didn't.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That would be very cool if it worked. Kinda scary if it didn't.


Sea Sucker Bike Rack « Create > Copy.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> Sea Sucker Bike Rack « Create > Copy.


Let me know how the testing goes!


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

That rack looks scary but hay so do I :eekster:


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Let me know how the testing goes!


Is that a pic of the original San Andres


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

yep


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> yep


Sweet I thought that pic looked familiar. Shaums March kicked arz on that bad boy :cornut:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

dogonfr said:


> That rack looks scary but hay so do I :eekster:


It does... the suction cups release easily just by lifting the cup but the rack it so firm to the car if you shake it you cant physically pull it off


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> It does... the suction cups release easily just by lifting the cup but the rack it so firm to the car if you shake it you cant physically pull it off


80mph G force posted 35mph off ramp corners


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> It does... the suction cups release easily just by lifting the cup but the rack it so firm to the car if you shake it you cant physically pull it off


I would like to try one of those. I always wanted to buy a roof rack for my Mini Cooper, but there is just not a good way to attach one to the roof. There are a couple companies that make one, but I don't really like how they attach.

One thing I am wondering: How can you lock your bike to the rack? A bike can be locked to a normal hard mounted rack.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I would like to try one of those. I always wanted to buy a roof rack for my Mini Cooper, but there is just not a good way to attach one to the roof. There are a couple companies that make one, but I don't really like how they attach.
> 
> One thing I am wondering: How can you lock your bike to the rack? A bike can be locked to a normal hard mounted rack.


LoL I put a hitch on my Miata with a Sportsworks an 2 DH bikes on back front end was very light through the corners made for some fun :lol:

Coopers are known to flip at autocross you may have the same fun but side to side, weeee :thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Nevermind, I found it on Youtube.

SeaSucker Bike Rack Intro - YouTube

Did you start a tread just for this rack?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Nevermind, I found it on Youtube.
> 
> SeaSucker Bike Rack Intro - YouTube
> 
> Did you start a tread just for this rack?


no thread yet. haven't really used it yet. it actually features a opening for a lock so the bike cant be removed from the rack but you could always just take both. more of a burden for anyone who would steel it..

this is the model i have Talon - SeaSucker


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

How did you get one to test? I would like to test one also. I think you should start a thread about it, if MTBR is ok with it. A lot of people would be interested in this.

Dang, I still need to get that brake bleed screw from you.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i'm testing it for MB action.

the parts are finally on there way from Germany! the bike should be ready to ride next week!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Right on! And, Right on!


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

ba boom!









what a ride! 
so far the brakes have a lot of potential  descent modulation and power. the pads haven't bedded yet either. with the ashima in front and scrub rear both are working well.

I have to add a layer of carbon fabric so the tune cappy fits properly. it's a hair to big for the mast but that was intended, since i can fix that. right now there is just tape on the mast to take up the gap

pop's head set spacers are the perfect color too! i want a fairwheel top cap to match it with

alloy valves with purly collars are different blues but they will have to do :/

Chainguide worked just fine! it extends a little to far back so it rubbed a tad but later in the ride it felt fine.

conti xkings felt great but a bit overkill for socal summer i think. more pics to come after i clean up the garage.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Double posted..


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

totaled up to 17lbs 6oz  heres the list. need to get a scrub rotor warrantied hopefully i can and drop a few more grams there 

Brake: KCNC X7............................................. .......................169/187
Brake Rotor: kcnc Ashima 160............................................... ...............87/58
Brake Rotor Bolts: 6ti 6blue alloy............................................. ................24
Cables: powercords........................................ .........................................4g
Bottle Cage:Karbona Wing x2.............................................. ...................51g
Cassette: 11-36 XX............................................... ................. .................210g
Chain: kmc sl10................................. .........................................?
Crankset: extralite e bones .................................................. .......................502
Chain Ring: Homebrewed 35t............................................... .........................40
Bolts: Toronto........................................... .................................................. ...?
Derlr (R): sram x.0 with afc pullys, alloy bolts + 09 med derailleur cage + carbon inner plate .......171g
Fork: Magura durin sl+starnut........................................ ............................1357
Frame: Carbon............................................ ..........................................1423
Grips: bonty xxx light............................................ .................................20
Handlebar: KCNC sc bone.............................................. ........................115
Headset: China............................................. . .........................................84g
Pedals: Crank Bro's egg beater 2ti with ward axles.....................................182
Seat: Bonty evoke carbon............................................ ... ........................144g
Seatpost clamp: Tune Cappy Blue.............................................. ................72g
Shifters: xx rear.............................................. ...................................... ....91g
Skewers: TI w/ Carbon Handle............................................ ........................43
Stem: rotor sl2 .................................................. .................................97g
Top cap/spacers: MSC and pops(5mm,10mm).........................................6+4=10g
Tire (Front): Conti. Xking 2.2 pacestar.......................................................485g
Tire (Rear): Conti. Xking 2.2 pacestar........................................................484g
Wheelset: 1305g
Wheel Front: 592g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Front ........80g!..........................80g!........ ........80(verified!)!! 
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine .................................................. .......................326
Spokes: DT 1.8's (because a stiff wheel is a better wheel) w/ nipple's............186
Wheel Rear: 713g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Rear.............................................. .................200g!
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine............................................ ............................. 327
Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipples........................................... ..........................186
Rim tape:.............................................. .................................................1 6g
Valves: Blue alloy + purly collars....................................... ........................8g


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Very nice build! Nice weight too!

How do you like those Mack hubs? Any issue's with them?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

COLINx86 said:


> Very nice build! Nice weight too!
> 
> How do you like those Mack hubs? Any issue's with them?


flawless! they were an awesome investment!
just after i recieved them extralite released there newest hubset that are available in blue so that was saddening but, the macks are working smooth still so im happy. plus there a rarity, ive seen the extralites and ya there cool but mine were made to order


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)




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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Lovin the stand :thumbsup:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

some how i know you'd say that


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Awesome to see my addition to your link :cornut:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Raced it today! the bike was awesome! super fast but it suffered a flat in the bumpy singletrack and a broken AFC pulley! the pulley separated from its bearing allowing it to shift over enough for the chain to wedge between it and the plates to the day was plagued by not being able to shift and having to get off and re set the chain. 
so i think its going to get some KCNC pulleys soon. 

the rear brake with the scrub rotor woke up today too! it offers amazing control. it modulated really well and felt good. it lacked the sheer bite to lock the rear which i feel helped keep the bike planted not having to worry about sliding. there were some steep dives into turns that the brakes sloed the bike nicely. 

so far i feel the kcnc brakes were an awesome buy! with the stock rotor in the front its firm and powerfull with an awesome feel to the lever. the rear with a scrub setup is smooth and consistent. not stong bite but super smooth.(maybe the pads will bed in more and it will get more bite)

so far i dont like how hard they are to keep from rubbing. they have a very fine gap between the rotor which with the IS rear has been a pain but its finally set well. and the levers are flexy but they feel comfortable and offer a fast return. (i always hated the slow return of the levers my strokers had)


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Gots ta love teething probs, Ride On :rockon:


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## Joza (Jun 4, 2010)

I have experienced the same thing with AFC pulley. The top one - closer to the cassette. After I apllied some fine two compound epoxy, it works again. But I don't think I will buy them again.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Joza said:


> I have experienced the same thing with AFC pulley. The top one - closer to the cassette. After I apllied some fine two compound epoxy, it works again. But I don't think I will buy them again.


i had it happen to a toronto cycles one too and epoxy fixed that. ill probubly inspect the afc's and fix them for the road bike.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> (i always hated the slow return of the levers my strokers had)


Especially the rear brake.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Especially the rear brake.


they still work well though! i found more pads too


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> they still work well though! i found more pads too


Yeah, I put some new pads in and they work really good. The slow lever dosn't seem to effect the braking. I lubed it and that didn't help, but I'm not really worried about it.

The pads that you found, are they pretty new?


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Yeah, I put some new pads in and they work really good. The slow lever dosn't seem to effect the braking. I lubed it and that didn't help, but I'm not really worried about it.
> 
> The pads that you found, are they pretty new?


Did you pop the circlip to pull the piston up and lube the seal?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

dogonfr said:


> Did you pop the circlip to pull the piston up and lube the seal?


didn't you use bic pens springs in yours?


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> didn't you use bic pens springs in yours?


LoL I cant keep up with some of the things iv done, I do remember saying that about something though


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i think you told me at the otter? but hey its a awesome idea!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

dogonfr said:


> Did you pop the circlip to pull the piston up and lube the seal?


No, but if you tell me how, I'll do it. I need to bleed them anyway, Actually 
I'll just push all new fluid through. What can I lube the piston with? And how far do I need to pull it out?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> didn't you use bic pens springs in yours?


How does that work?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> How does that work?


he removed the original springs in his for springs he pulled out of pens.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> No, but if you tell me how, I'll do it. I need to bleed them anyway, Actually
> I'll just push all new fluid through. What can I lube the piston with? And how far do I need to pull it out?


Call or email Hayes Support | Hayes Disc Brake they will send you the proper lube. They have instructions with the lube kit, pretty simple. Flip the master/lever so its facing up, remove the lever look below into the piston area their is a circlip that needs to come out then carefully pull the shaft an piston up enough to apply the lube. If your slick you wont need to bleed but if its up in age flush with fresh fluid as you said you needed any way. :rockon:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

ver. 2 chainguide. 


































25g on my scale. has an adjustable range should fit up to 38-32t easy. to adjust the outward from the frame you just have to trim the spacers( right now they extend out as far as the 3rd ring would on my extralight.


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Nice! :thumbsup:

Looks like you could trim up the back plate and save a couple more grams


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

back plate or guide plate all could be tooled a bit. 

ascetically it could look a little better but i'm happy with the results of this one. i'm going to countersink the holes on the front so the bolts sit flush. otherwise i gotta find a way to sell these.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Very Pimp :rockon:


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

This one is lookin good faceless.:thumbsup:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

in the process of making 4 more. beveled the bolt holes too


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## frankieuc (Nov 28, 2006)

:cornut:Grats! Sweet Ride!:thumbsup:


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


>


Nice to see someone using moto technology for brakes finally :cornut:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

whats the moto tech feature?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> whats the moto tech feature?


That's a good question. Disc brakes have been around for 22 years now.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Motos like autos use a master cylinder reservoir with a diaphragm very simple and effective for many years. Many bike hydros use a closed system which creates a nightmare because they all want their brand specific adapters for bleeding.
With a reservoir you remove the cap attach a hose to the caliper nipple crack it pull the lever snug do again but now you can just pump the lever being sure to keep the reservoir filled, way to simple 

Yes Shimano an some others have and do use the old school system because it works :thumbsup:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

dogonfr said:


> master cylinder reservoir


i thought it was something more hitec then that. kcnc has a patent number on the reservoir maybe they're patenting the reservoir


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> i thought it was something more hitec then that. kcnc has a patent number on the reservoir maybe they're patenting the reservoir


LMAO it always amazes me how the bicycle industry trys to separate its self from the motor driven side. Some things it can be its own but others it might as well fallow but try an be better then the competition. Technology the vicious circle :rockon:


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## turbogrover (Dec 4, 2005)

Bike looks good. :thumbsup:
I just ordered a Chinese rigid frameset for myself, from Carbonal Composites. 1050 gram frame, and 510 gram fork. I'll post pics of the build when I get it. Should be here by mid November. I went with a tuned version of the Hygia brakes for this one.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

nice! my frame was claimed to be around 1300g but came in a bit over 1400g. hopefully yours stays nice and low 

so far i've been really happy with the kcnc brakes, except the scrub rotor doesn't seem to have the same bite. if i ever get my second one back from warranty i probably wont even put it on the front unless i can get the rear to bite better.


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

hey 

if you dont mind me asking how much does a bike that cost

i was looking at getting one of those frames

trying to figure what it would cost me or whether it would be better get a whole new bike then upgrading it from there


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

are you looking to see what the whole bike costs or just the frame. 

the frame cost around $500 shipped


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

looking at how much the whole bike would cost

çause trying to figure out with bike a new bike then just use the parts to make a carbon fibre bike


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

bardynt said:


> looking at how much the whole bike would cost
> 
> çause trying to figure out with bike a new bike then just use the parts to make a carbon fibre bike


Brake: KCNC X7..............................$450
Brake Rotor: kcnc Ashima 160..................
Brake Rotor Bolts: 6ti 6blue alloy.................$20?
Cables: powercords....................................$15
Bottle Cage:Karbona Wing x2......................$50
Cassette: 11-36 XX.....................................$210
Chain: kmc sl10................................. .........$45
Crankset: extralite e bones .........................$500
Chain Ring: Homebrewed 35t.......................$40
Bolts: Toronto........................................... ..
Derlr (R): sram x.0 with afc pullys, alloy bolts + 09 med derailleur cage + carbon inner plate ..........................................................$200
Fork: Magura durin sl+starnut.......................$500
Frame: Carbon............................................$450
Grips: bonty xxx light...................................$5
Handlebar: KCNC sc bone.............................$70
Headset: China............................................. . ....
Pedals: Crank Bro's egg beater 2ti with ward axles...................$275
Seat: Bonty evoke carbon............................................ ... .......$85
Seatpost clamp: Tune Cappy Blue...........................................$125
Shifters: xx rear.............................................. ......................$100
Skewers: TI w/ Carbon Handle............................................ ...$30
Stem: rotor sl2 .................................................. ..................$100
Top cap/spacers: MSC and pops(5mm,10mm)..........................$30
Tire (Front): Conti. Xking 2.2 pacestar.....................................$45
Tire (Rear): Conti. Xking 2.2 pacestar.....................................$45
Wheelset: 1305g
Wheel Front: 592g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Front ............................................$250 
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine .................................................. ..$50
Spokes: DT 1.8's (because a stiff wheel is a better wheel) w/ nipple's........$200
Wheel Rear: 713g
Hub: Mack 32h Super Light Rear..............................................$350
Rim: NoTubes ZTR Alpine............................................ .........$50
Spokes: DT 1.8's w/ nipples........................................... ................$100
Rim tape:............................................. . .....................................$10
Valves: Blue alloy + purly collars....................................... .............$15

well i added the prices to just about everything.. its just a rough estimate though. it added up to $4415. that's no tax or shipping..


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> well i added the prices to just about everything.. its just a rough estimate though. it added up to $4415. that's no tax or shipping..


Thats cheap :crazy:


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Very reasonable $$$$ for a nice light carbon HT.:thumbsup:
Faceless did you happen to weigh the Mack superlite hubs?
Where did you find the Tune Cappy for $125.00, I think I paid $155.00 for mine.


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

ok no worries mate

way outta my price range 

hey were would you say this biggest weight savings were on a bike eg frame , gearing


cause then i would just upgrade those components instead of the whole bike could afford that but not to do a complete build


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

dogonfr said:


> Thats cheap :crazy:


ya! it didn't turn out to bad! dealer cost on the small things from my sponsor a few online specials ect. came out well. aimed a lot of the parts at price weight ratio. 
like the stem is a rotor which was a bit over 100usd and only 10g more the the 200usd extralight not as good but better in price:weight



xc71 said:


> Very reasonable $$$$ for a nice light carbon HT.:thumbsup:
> Faceless did you happen to weigh the Mack superlite hubs?
> Where did you find the Tune Cappy for $125.00, I think I paid $155.00 for mine.


i got it from R2. 117euro or 163usd minus the 20% vat gets it to 128usd depending on when you buy it overseas that is..
yes i weighed the mack's the front was exactly 80g and the rear was 200g exactly.

Mack - superlight hand made hubs

at the time i ordered them they would have been the lightest but tune and extralite updated to the new ratchet system so there now lighter. extralight has the lightest front at 78g but i dont think its stiffness would be as good. my wheel set was setup to be more realistic then light.



bardynt said:


> ok no worries mate
> way outta my price range
> hey were would you say this biggest weight savings were on a bike eg frame , gearing
> cause then i would just upgrade those components instead of the whole bike could afford that but not to do a complete build


i got the parts over time so it wasn't to bad.

if you buy a new bike then it will depend on your bikes setup. if i were to buy a new bike i'd make sure it fits right first. so getting a saddle post stem and bars. you wont loose a whole lot of weight but in the essence of weight a lot can be dropped from the wheels and drive even the stock fork sometimes. so it depends which is worse the drive or the wheels. both will up the performance of the bike though. wheels/tires have the best loss potential in weight but the both upgrades do a lot for the bike. its open ended as to what you should do. buy a bike that appeals to you and is within your limits for what it is as is not what it can be.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks.
"i got it from R2. 117euro or 163usd minus the 20% vat gets it to 128usd depending on when you buy it overseas that is.."
Okay, that makes sense as you mentioned shipping was not included in the pricing. I guess the $155.00 wasn't to bad then.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

xc71 said:


> Thanks.
> "i got it from R2. 117euro or 163usd minus the 20% vat gets it to 128usd depending on when you buy it overseas that is.."
> Okay, that makes sense as you mentioned shipping was not included in the pricing. I guess the $155.00 wasn't to bad then.


fairwheelbikes?

i needed tires too so i ordered from r2 since cont's are way cheaper overseas and fairwheel didn't have the tune in the size/color. the onlything from fairwheel on this bike is the topcap which i got with my cyclepassion callender :thumbsup:


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

i got the parts over time so it wasn't to bad.

if you buy a new bike then it will depend on your bikes setup. if i were to buy a new bike i'd make sure it fits right first. so getting a saddle post stem and bars. you wont loose a whole lot of weight but in the essence of weight a lot can be dropped from the wheels and drive even the stock fork sometimes. so it depends which is worse the drive or the wheels. both will up the performance of the bike though. wheels/tires have the best loss potential in weight but the both upgrades do a lot for the bike. its open ended as to what you should do. buy a bike that appeals to you and is within your limits for what it is as is not what it can be.[/QUOTE]

well i was looking at buying xtc bike then upgrading it from there

have seen some wheel sets that are about 800g for both wheels without gearing added

but then worried since im big guy that light wheel set would bend under my weight

the frame looks like would only be 300grams saving compareed to xtc frame

the only thing is worried is saved about 2kgs with upgraded whether they would bend under a heavy load


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i've never seen a 800g mountain wheelset.. 

do a forum search there i threads that for heavy rider's i think. 

i'm only 135lbs and 5' 10''


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

facelessfools said:


> i've never seen a 800g mountain wheelset..
> 
> do a forum search there i threads that for heavy rider's i think.
> 
> i'm only 135lbs and 5' 10''


X2. The lightest disc brake MTB wheelset I've seen was 894 grams & that had a price of approx.$3600.00. If you did find an 800 grams wheelset, I'm sure it would be over $4000.00


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

135 soaking wet in rain gear


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## bikemaniack (Feb 6, 2010)

2x
POP PARTS OF PASSION Felge 26" Disc Carbon SL 28L 205g, 0,00 € - r2-bike.de ihr Shop für Tuning und Leichtbau
+
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download/file.php?id=45907&mode=view
+
EXTRALITE Nabe Vorderrad HyperFront QR15 76g, 197,50 € - r2-bike.de ihr Shop für Tuning und Leichtbau
+ 56x
CN SPOKES Speiche Titan 256mm 3g, 4,50 € - r2-bike.de ihr Shop für Tuning und Leichtbau

+ 20 of nipples

And you got something around 815g wheelset


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Dang, I thought I was thin @ 150 lbs.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

bikemaniack said:


> 2x
> POP PARTS OF PASSION Felge 26" Disc Carbon SL 28L 205g, 0,00 € - r2-bike.de ihr Shop für Tuning und Leichtbau
> +
> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/download/file.php?id=45907&mode=view
> ...


considering no one has the tune dezible for purchase..

i saw carbon spoke nipples before maybe loose 5g?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

dogonfr said:


> 135 soaking wet in rain gear


that would be bad if it were true 



Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Dang, I thought I was thin @ 150 lbs.


you both have seen how thin i am, that cant come as a surprise!


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

hey 

well i i saw some wheels this is just the wheels without gearing or tyres

they might be lying but say 351grams and 451 grams rear wheel only 24 spokes


damn im 5ft 10 and about 220pounds


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> that would be bad if it were true
> 
> you both have seen how thin i am, that cant come as a surprise!


I was about 135 tll after I got married at 39 now im 175 :nonod:

Poh will be contacting you soon son


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

dogonfr said:


> I was about 135 tll after I got married at 39 now im 175 :nonod:
> 
> Poh will be contacting you soon son


your ideal weight is calculated by 5ft = 106lbs the for every inch over you add 6lbs (+ or - 10%) so me at 5' 10'' i should be withing 10% of 166lbs.. 150.4 to 182.6... im way off.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

facelessfools said:


> your ideal weight is calculated by 5ft = 106lbs the for every inch over you add 6lbs (+ or - 10%) so me at 5' 10'' i should be withing 10% of 166lbs.. 150.4 to 182.6... im way off.


Good thing im over 6 foot eyy :thumbsup:


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> that would be bad if it were true
> 
> you both have seen how thin i am, that cant come as a surprise!


Actually, I have never thought that you looked thin. I was really suprised to hear that your 135. To me you just look like your in really good shape. Now when I look at myself in the mirror, I see thin. But, Im 5'9" and 150. But I have always had a complex about being to thin. As soon as I get past this little back injury, I'm getting my ass back to the gym and back to 165 lbs and 6% body fat, like I was 5 years ago.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

self motivation with a realistic goal make it happen buddy! i got to 147lbs in my freshman year but i was working out daily. then i got a job and more into just racing. and dropped to 130lbs. hope to get to 145 within the year.


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

hey

so how much did the bike weight in the end ?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

bardynt said:


> hey
> 
> so how much did the bike weight in the end ?


17lbs 6oz or 7.9kg


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

that def a light bike

pretty cool


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

facelessfools said:


> 17lbs 6oz or 7.9kg


Light.....


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## Loonytik (Jul 20, 2011)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> But, Im 5'9" and 150. But I have always had a complex about being to thin. As soon as I get past this little back injury, I'm getting my ass back to the gym and back to 165 lbs and 6% body fat, like I was 5 years ago.


That's light...I'm 190lbs and 6ft and riding a 18 chinese carbon....


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

obviously it could be lighter. there are a lot of very light bikes on this forum, but i feel like it's a very realistic build. i could always put on slick tires and say its lighter but as it is it's race ready.


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## bardynt (Oct 11, 2011)

yer

i def agree good thing not point having super light bike if cant ride it the way you want

that's why when i buy new bike see what is heavy or find the bike is light enough and happy with it wont change it

but seeing be able to make you're own carbon fiber parts got me thinking be tempted to try make some parts see how it goes

def not cheap process so might wait until have got new bike and lights for it before worry about that


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## N2B (Jul 30, 2009)

facelessfools said:


> considering no one has the tune dezible for purchase..
> 
> i saw carbon spoke nipples before maybe loose 5g?


Id ask about dezible hub and here are the answer

"The Dezibel won't be available for a long time as they have to fine tune the magnetic system on the freehub. I don't expect it to be available in 2012.

We do have a prototype on stock here but they warned us that it shouldn't be used.....go figure!"

you could get the rims in blue, but maybe its a darker blue:

PROJECT 321 | Products: Stan's NoTubes Anodized Rims

I really like the blue and carbon look. Look a little as my old bike. Id have the fork and breaks painted in same color as the wheels


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

the stem is now a matching tune blue, rebuilding the wheels for blue rims would be a little $$ but i might be joining a team with a 321 sponsorship, so maybe i could gnab a pair of enve's


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## MTB-fanatic (Mar 9, 2010)

all that money for a light bike and you put a frame mounted mini pump on it?:skep:


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## Drunkindonuts (Dec 4, 2010)

Hey I have seen this bike recently...Jan 2012 MBA field test.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

MTB-fanatic said:


> all that money for a light bike and you put a frame mounted mini pump on it?:skep:


It's either put it on the bike or put it in the pack. Doesn't make much difference where you put it. If you gotta have one, you gotta have one.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

What MCS said :rockon:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

what mcs and dog said..

i have keys hammer gel and a phone in my pockets and some times an ipod i dont want a co2 in there as well.. i also have a tube and lever toe strapped to my saddle. 

drunk, you can see my car in it twice. the ghetto roof rack and the sea suckers. the sea sucker you can see my bike in too.  i have it framed in my room.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Im in the works of adding internal cable routing to my project. I've been planning on it for a long time but decided to go for it this week so here is the start...

the initial gluing of the rear cable, got cleaned up which you will see.


glue filed down and cleaned up


front cable initial gluing..


exit holes initial gluing


second exit hole


another angle


and the head view and my puppy! Maxine. (Logo is of my friends bike shop bikenerd simi valley, CA but im stationed in VA now)


So a lot of work invested so far and 2 more holes to punch for the rear cable and two for the brake line.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

15g worth of hardware taken off.. still two more to take off


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

after some years of abuse on this bike and all of its parts their has ended up with mixed results on some of the parts. As requested i'll go over some of the fate some parts have suffered..
The frame is now a light for the living room...


the frame developed a creeking noise i could never hone in on. if it was the frame or the cranks i couldn't prove.. the frame did out last a lot of parts though..

The extralite ebones cranks were one of the first to go... they might have stiff arms but the spider is very flexy... and the odd ring setup made them very annoying to find a suitable ring set. some normal 104bcd rings had a slightly too small inner diameter and had to be filed. and the 64bcd rings require a 10mm hole so i used one made by mattias but had many issues with the bolts under a lot of stress and tearing out.

the mcfk bars were great they held up and were stiff untill i took a flip... the bars split in half... fake rock gardens did them in.. not their fault. i sent them to berk for repair but it was simply not possible. 



lastly the mack hubs. After many races and thousands of miles and a few cassettes, when I tore down my 26 wheels to build 29s i found a crack in the freehub. they never locked up and still performed very well all the way until i did in the 26. I do plan on getting them back in the dirt. mack says he will be building sram x01 freehubs soon which i will be investing into.


Crankbrothers eggbeaters with ward ti axles. I have had these the longest and they are still being used. ive broken wings off them and crankbrothers has been great for repairs. i do find myself pulling my cleats out of them on my current setup but that may be from worn cleats not the peddles. otherwise im tired of not having a strong cleat grip from them... great for cross but im seeing myself replacing them soon..

enjoy guys!


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Thx for the follow up, along with all the pics. All too often we don't hear back after the build has been used for a while.

I'm curious about the frame creak, as I know they can be brutal to track down. I'm assuming you tried everything possible prior to cutting.

BTW, I'm pretty sure MCFK has a crash program, so could save you on the next bar should you wish to go that route.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

I turned the bar over to Berk so he he can turn them into something. 
I tried the usual stuff. Tighten and clean cranks skewers tightening force saddle etc and nothing helped. But the frame never failed over drops and jumps.


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