# A nice alternative to P7 LED (1100 lumens guaranteed)



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Just finished development of new illumination module for portable lighting. 
*The specs in brief:*

Min. Luminous Flux....1100 Lumens 
LED Type .......... triplet of XP-G R5 bin 
Voltage Range............DC 4.8 - 9.5V 
Consumed Power........9.6 Watts 
FWHM (Light Spill).........14-30 deg (different lenses available)
Dim Control...........PWM input (1...25KHz) 
Dimensions.............20 x 8 mm 
Weight..................4.5g


















The idea of this unit - to integrate the latest most efficient LEDs with a switching boost & thermal control circuit and secondary optics. So just add a case and your 1100lumens torch is ready.

The main pros:
1) The latest most efficient LEDs used, the rated output is min 139lm/watt (CREE XP-G R5 bin)
2) Wide voltage range - 4.8 - 9.5V
3) Quality assembly, quality components from USA, Japan, UK. Nothing from China.
4) Used only quality ceramic X7R capacitors.
5) Shielded inductor, no inference with wireless equipment 
6) Very high switching frequency - 1.6MHz. Again, this minimizes inference with wireless computers.
7) Thermal control protects the LEDs from over-heating and increases their lifespan
8) Low resistance electrically insulated thermal path, no glue, no paste. Only soldering.
9) Aluminum large thermal sink for maximal performance.
10) Replaceable secondary PC optics CARCLO (UK). Many FWHMs available.
11) Unlta-small and ultra lightweight. Just 20mm in diameter and 8mm in height with lens.
12) High power conversion efficiency - tested 91% in range 6-9.5V

link to my Lab
https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/the_lab
https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/new_leds


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## kmjelle (Nov 29, 2007)

Very nice and small form factor solution to locate the the driver on the led itself.


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## merijn101 (Nov 17, 2007)

man, that looks insane. You would not need an extra driver or such? just hook up a battery and a switch and go? Would the wires fold into the little slots of the board so you could fit it in a round 20mm housing? Are you also selling these sets?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

merijn101 said:


> man, that looks insane. You would not need an extra driver or such? just hook up a battery and a switch and go? Would the wires fold into the little slots of the board so you could fit it in a round 20mm housing? Are you also selling these sets?


yeah, that slot is reserved for wires. All you need - any DC supply in range 5-9V and a housing. make sure that your housing can dissipate 9W of heat. The latest CREE LEDs are very nice but they do require good heat sink.

the parts will be available for ordering in next 2 weeks I think


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## merijn101 (Nov 17, 2007)

sweet, keep me posted!


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

What is the regulator topology? I'm guessing boost and hence the upper voltage limit of 9.5V. 

What about other functions typically included in the driver are supported. Multiple brightness levels, switch input, status led output, low battery cutoff voltage threshold? I'm trying to understand if these function are included in the driver or if a MCU based control logic board will be needed in addition to this module.

How does the thermal management work? Does it reduce the drive current to the LEDs at elevated temperatures? A fixed reduction or is it variable based on the temperature?

Is there a provision for setting the drive current independent of using the PWM input? I typically like to run the light at less than 1000ma driver current, and for max efficiency of the LEDs, it best to have that lower level with a steady current as opposed to PWM.


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

I'll be curious to see if your driver can handle the heat of 3 LED's within a few mm of it. I hope so! Is the driver programmable ala *flex?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Genius!! :thumbsup:


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## czarny_kruk (Jan 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> 3) Quality assembly, quality components from USA, Japan, UK. *Nothing from China.*


haha funny thing, but actually



quazzle said:


> 1) The latest most efficient LEDs used, the rated output is min 139lm/watt (CREE XP-G R5 bin)


... are made in China.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

*Oh, Man...*

This is just plain phenomenal if everything when well heat sinked, lives well! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

All this messing I've been doing with separate components to do 3 XP-G's. Sheesh! :madman:

A comment on output. Check Troutie's site on the 6 XP-G's R5's. His actual out-the-front at operating temps is listed at about 1300 lumens with driver (similarly efficiency) and optics (again close) with the superb thermal path/large cooling area, we have come to know, and love (and covet) in his designs. 

So 3, not 6 R5's, means half that, or 650 lumens, maybe sneaking up to almost 700 with some upper end of range sets of three R5's. At 1 A, 3 XP-G (3.3 Vf) nominally use about 0.5watt less than a P7 (at 2.8 A and 3.7 Vf). P7 outputs of 700-900 are also not out the front, figure 600 at best, about 10% less at the least. So at least 10% more light, maybe as much as 40% more, depending on the P7, plus 5% less heat, and 5% more run time. This is why I chose 3 XP-G R5's, too! 

Fast pretty DIY: this, an Al slug sanded to fit, one of EL34's Marwi housings, and his mount(s). Ride fast though, you'll need to keep it cool!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

BrianMc said:


> So 3, not 6 R5's, means half that, or 650 lumens, maybe sneaking up to almost 700 with some upper end of range sets of three R5's. At 1 A, 3 XP-G (3.3 Vf) nominally use about 0.5watt less than a P7 (at 2.8 A and 3.7 Vf). P7 outputs of 700-900 are also not out the front, figure 600 at best, about 10% less at the least. So at least 10% more light, maybe as much as 40% more, depending on the P7, plus 5% less heat, and 5% more run time. This is why I chose 3 XP-G R5's, too!


1100 Lumens is the LED manufacturer's rating. 
Check the specs at http://www.cree.com/Products/pdf/XLampXP_B&L.pdf

The luminous flux of R5 at 350maA is rated to be in range 139-148Lm.
At 1A the flux increases in 2.5 times (it's also from the spec and proved at CPF, check this link - http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=3115908&postcount=354)

I assume that actual average flux at 1A = 2.5 * ((139+148)/2) = 358.75Lm. The triplet's output is 3x358.75=1076.25. But in fact the actual current of the LED is about 1.1A, so 1100 lumens is quite adequate.

Anyhow, XP-G can't be less efficient than P7. So if P7's rated flux @10watts is 900lm, three XP-G running at the same power simply won't be worse.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Rich_SC said:


> I'll be curious to see if your driver can handle the heat of 3 LED's within a few mm of it. I hope so! Is the driver programmable ala *flex?


here it is. In this installation it's running during last 30 hours:









I'll continue this stress test during 7 days. At the end I'll measure the illumination at 1M. I also check the duty-cycle stability and other params, like consumed power and the heat-sink temperature. All parameters are within the limits for the IC and inductor. We produce similar units for different LEDs during last 2 years.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

czarny_kruk said:


> haha funny thing, but actually
> ...XP-G are made in China.


yes, I meant the driver components. As for the LEDs, as it comes from the PI "Country of Origin: CN China, in which last significant manufacturing process was carried out". I do think it's not fully Chinese, only the "last process". Anyhow, I had no option to choose from.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry this is going to be long. The nature of the beast, I think.

I am not questioning the output of the LEDs under manufacturers or other labs testing.
Nor your citing those measurements. They are right. But they are right only under specific conditions not found in real lights using those LEDs or your device. So they are misleading in the WAY you cited them.

The cited 1100 total potential lumens in the lab compares to 700-900 cited for P7's from the lab. No problems there. Very good, in fact. But no one will see those high outputs in real lights in normal temps, and with lenses.

The total light captured in manufacturer and independent lab rigs is at a controlled 25 C and is about 25-30% more than we get out the front of bike lights at summer temperatures with lenses and reflectors. Hence Trouties comments of 6 XPG's being a real world 1600 or so and not 2200. (My error :madman: for not checking the 1300 figure, I cited. I feel better, realizing my lights will have another 150 lumens than I thought!)

So the increased light over a P7 is about 25% higher again. Sorry about that. Link to citation:

http://www.troutie.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=50&Itemid=56

Thanks Troutie!:thumbsup:

Why do the lab figures not match the out the front lumens of a flashlight of bike light?

Glad you asked. This was a big learning issue for me. I wanted 1100 lumens from 3 XP-G R5's, too. (I'll take 800!)

1. Check the thermal response curves in those data sheets. They measure max outputs at 25 C but they also measure output at higher temperatures. The output drops as temps go up. The XP-G loses less voltage and lumens with increased temp than many LEDs, but it does lose both. (for those wanting to see the data but without a sheet:
www.cutter,au, products, LEDS, CREE, XP-G)

Typical bike light temps on the outside of the case while riding are in the 30-50 C range for cool to warm conditions (from posting here) and stationary ones are much higher. In room tests heat protection usually kick in in after a few minutes on maximum current. The thermal path from the LED junction to the light body will dictate how much hotter the junction temperature is than the outside of the case. It will be a lot warmer. Likely 20-30 C warmer at a minimum, and even more with poor thermal paths. So it will be in the 50-80 C range, but still shy of its 150C max.. There goes some of that efficacy and light output seen at 25 C! Some like it hot, but not power LEDs! So we will see 5-15% loss of output from temperature depending on which LED we have, (some have higher T responses), how cold the ride, how fast, how much wind, and the thermal path in the light, in reasonably well designed lights. Check the charts and see what you think.

2. We can't really use the light as it comes off the LED domes effectively. Bummer. It would be SO simple then. But the light would be all over the place. For example, I don't need to see the branches almost directly overhead or my front hub or be blinded by the light. (Nice song, that.) So we need secondary systems of lenses or reflectors, or both, to shape the light from the LED. There is a loss with every bounce or refraction of a light beam. Lens and reflector systems are NOT 100% transmissive. Breaks a physical law, I think. From what I read 90% is pretty darn good. So a 10-15% loss of light after emission by the LED caused by optics.

3. We generally can't allow dirt and water into the lens and LED system or we won't get any light out after a short period of riding, so there is a cover that adds another loss of 5-10% loss after the light leaves the reflector or lens. Maybe sapphire is better than that but who uses that in a bike light? Up to 100% if caked in mud..

4. Efficacy (light per watt) if measured on a driver and LED basis and not on an LED alone, is less. We can't really go direct drive from batteries so we have drivers. Good ones like yours use 10% above the current going through them to function. This reduces the efficacy of the system but NOT the efficacy of the LEDs themselves, uneless the driver contibutes significant heat, and at 10% yours doesn't.. It has NO effect on the LED output. The 350 mA of through the LED's is now 385 mA through the LED and driver. So it affects power use and run time. A 90% effective driver reduces runtime 10% but permits constant light output, temperature monitoring, battery monitoring and level control. Great deal. Doing it at only 10% of the power used by the LED's is great and adds litttle to the thermal management issue.

So it is a matter of what you measure under what conditions. Both of us are right. 1100 lumens for three XP-G's in the lab, at 25 C all light captured. Something like 800-900 lumens out the front of a well-designed light, in cold air, riding fast. But you are not selling LEDs. You are selling a major chunk of an LED lighting system that includes lenses.

So it is a matter of controlling client's expectations. Making and keeping good customers. There have been lots of threads talking about the excessive claims of light manufacturers when they simpy quote the lab specification of the LED and ignore the losses of their light systems. It is sloppy at best and a cover for poor design at worst. Your buyers won't use your product under the lab testing conditions, so why quote performace figures they will never see with your product?

This IS a great little device! Brilliant. No need for hype. In fact showing real light outputs and beam shots will win you a lot of friends here.

Hope this helps.

Keep us posted on progress and price, you have a winner.

Brian


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## joebreez (Sep 10, 2005)

Beam shots!!!!!!!!!


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Hey quazz, just say `yes Bri this helps :thumbsup: i will keep everyone posted`
........why does everything have to turn into a major nitpicking debate
...............END OF ................


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Sorry.


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## Billabang (Sep 2, 2007)

How much! $$$


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

imagine 4 of these lined up on your bars...that would kick some serious ass and be *tiny*...troutie needs to design a cnc case pronto!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Billabang said:


> How much! $$$


 i need to calculate... 3 leds + board + some electronics + lens + assembly job....hmmm. I'll be back


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

regarding the beamshots, not too many so far, sorry:









I'll be updating this article -> https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/new_leds


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

BrianMc said:


> Sorry this is going to be long.....


Thanks for that very detailed and ... friendly feedback, really.
I will agree. This demonstrates my very rough approach estimating the total output of that triplet. This is a preliminary specs. Ideally I'll measure the actual flux in an intergating sphere somewhen later.

You know I cannot estimate the thermal conditions in the end product because I offer no hosing for it yet. That's why for this unit I'd prefer to leave the maximal flux for ideal thermal conditions by adding a note. I'll need to recalculate the flux losses caused by optics. It's about 10-15% depending on the lens type.

But anyway, running in the same conditions, using similar optics and consuming the same power this triplet will show better performance (i.e. a higher output) than SSC P7.

And if it's more efficient than P7 (I hope you'd agree), how should I state this in the specs? Assuming that suppliers of P7-based flashlights always claim that their lights has maximal and not reachable in practice flux - 900lumens. Most people just compare numbers.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

MtbMacgyver said:


> What is the regulator topology? I'm guessing boost and hence the upper voltage limit of 9.5V.


exactly 



MtbMacgyver said:


> What about other functions typically included in the driver are supported. Multiple brightness levels, switch input, status led output, low battery cutoff voltage threshold? I'm trying to understand if these function are included in the driver or if a MCU based control logic board will be needed in addition to this module.


Two reasons why I left this unit with no on-board brightness control.
1) It's too small even for a simple boost. And the conditions in which is running are not good for a microcontroller.
2) Regardless it features an optional PWM input I'm not going to use it in my project. As you mentioned it's not the most efficient. I'm also working on a portable supply. So I'm going to implement the modes there by simply limiting the output power (current).



MtbMacgyver said:


> How does the thermal management work? Does it reduce the drive current to the LEDs at elevated temperatures? A fixed reduction or is it variable based on the temperature?


it's very straightforward, it simply switches it off when the sink temperature exceeds 80C. it's like an emergency. it saves the LED when it runs with no radiator to the radiator design is very bad. In a good designed housing the module temperature should never reach 80C.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Rich_SC said:


> imagine 4 of these lined up on your bars...that would kick some serious ass and be *tiny*...troutie needs to design a cnc case pronto!


I had played around with one when looking at the liberator concept and with all XPE`s inside 









the beam shot was in my eyes a bit narrow but penetrated well and this was if my memmory is correct with the leds powered at 500ma 









but now with the XPGs a mix of each would widen the beam nicely 
Driveing it was also a problem ( Before Hyperboost)

so dropping 4 of those in would be a doodle No Mention of projected Price yet Quazzle

What happened to the Variable optic we are still holding our breath on that one


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

quazzle said:


> ...it simply switches it off when the sink temperature exceeds 80C.


This is not good on a bike light. Cutting down to a sensible low level would be better (250mA?).


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

quazzle said:


> Thanks for that very detailed and ... friendly feedback, really.


You are most welcome.



quazzle said:


> You know I cannot estimate the thermal conditions in the end product because I offer no hosing for it yet. That's why for this unit I'd prefer to leave the maximal flux for ideal thermal conditions by adding a note. I'll need to recalculate the flux losses caused by optics. It's about 10-15% depending on the lens type.
> 
> But anyway, running in the same conditions, using similar optics and consuming the same power this triplet will show better performance (i.e. a higher output) than SSC P7.
> 
> And if it's more efficient than P7 (I hope you'd agree), how should I state this in the specs? Assuming that suppliers of P7-based flashlights always claim that their lights has maximal and not reachable in practice flux - 900lumens. Most people just compare numbers.


Agreed. Three XPG R5s put out 22% more light using 5% less power. Or 28% more light per watt compared to a P7, both at maximum recommended output. That ratio of improvement remains the same if they are in lights with the same losses. So 1100 for three R5's is fine if compared to 900 total lumens for a P7. I guess I misread the 1100 lumens as a claim to 1100 lumens output in a finished light, but now I see that was clearly not your intent. Makes it hard when others infer the lab specs are the light output.

Not sure if this helped. I am OK with however you want to do it.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

znomit said:


> This is not good on a bike light. Cutting down to a sensible low level would be better (250mA?).


I noted, thanks. This can be made on the progam level of the power supply unit (automatic "reset" to low-current mode when a temperature cut-off detected).

But again, I don't think it's possible to happen with my original housing (or cusom with sufficient radiaton). Unless you put a running light into an oven.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> What happened to the Variable optic we are still holding our breath on that one


Thanks for asking, yes, the first approach was not quite successful so I had to completely redesign it. New design of reflector uses different idea and I also changed the adjustment ring configuration:









I anticipate this new part to be completed by mid-Feb.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

quazzle said:


> exactly
> 
> Two reasons why I left this unit with no on-board brightness control.
> 1) It's too small even for a simple boost. And the conditions in which is running are not good for a microcontroller.
> ...


Thanks for the additional information. I understand that the board is probably too small to implement all those functions and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I just wanted to understand what was included and what was not so I could make the right assumption for what would be needed to construct a complete bike light out of the module.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> 2) Regardless it features an optional PWM input I'm not going to use it in my project. As you mentioned it's not the most efficient. I'm also working on a portable supply. So I'm going to implement the modes there by simply limiting the output power (current).


For us non EE's can you explain how one would utilize the PWM input for dimming? Would the output from a standard driver (taskled, buckpuck, ect) be used as the input for this?


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> For us non EE's can you explain how one would utilize the PWM input for dimming? Would the output from a standard driver (taskled, buckpuck, ect) be used as the input for this?


Pulse Width Modulation (PWM) dimming of a light relies on the fact that your eyes do not respond quickly to changes in light intensity. It's basically switching the light on and off very rapidly. 25,000 times a second is the maximum rate for this particular module. You can then vary the percentage of "On time" verses "Off time" to make the light appear dimmer or brighter to the human eye. So if the light is "On" 70% of the cycle and "Off" 30% of the cycle, it'll appear to be 70% of the full intensity.

Circuity to generate a PWM signal is included in almost every modern micro-controller (MCU). So this signal would typically be driven by some type of circuit board that contains an MCU. While taskled drivers and buckpucks do contain an MCU, they do not typically output PWM signals directly. So they wouldn't be used to drive something like this module.

Actually, if you're going to have something like a taskled driver or a buckpuck in the system you wouldn't use this type of module. You could just buy a 20mm MCPCB with LEDs and the Carclo 20mm optic from cutter and drive it directly from the taskled or buckpuck.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> For us non EE's can you explain how one would utilize the PWM input for dimming? Would the output from a standard driver (taskled, buckpuck, ect) be used as the input for this?


it wouldn't be easy to explain, if you're not a EE. Just consider this unit as a simple, protected bulb which can operate with constant brightness in a wide range of input voltages.

PWM can be useful for DIY guys who already have MCU with PWM on board.

As for me - it will sound crazy probably - but I'm not going to use PWM to manage the brightness. The main reason - it's simply not the best way to utilize the power. Running at a constant reduced current (not pulsed as in a PWM case) LEDs show much better performance, thus can run longer.


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Good stuff.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I would also like to see the 31.1 module offered with the ledil LXP lens as an option. I would also like to see prices and ordering info for this modules as well as the 33.2. Both of these complete light engines are winners.

I want to order two 31.1s with narrow Ledil LXP lens and a 33.2 module with the "narrow" carclo optic so i hope to see ordering info on the lux-rc site soon.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

yes, but seems L31.1 is too small for LXP series, it's just 13.9mm in diameter.
In fact it's designed for L31 series - an ultra-small unit with a proprietary optics based on our own VarySpot technology. A VeryFocus optical system should be ordered separately:









I promise it won't take too long to release them on the market. I still need to re-trace the L33.2 board (which will extend the allowable voltage range up to 9.5V) and also in the production series I'll use gold plated pins for contacts. Please stay tuned.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

quazzle said:


> I assume that actual average flux at 1A = 2.5 * ((139+148)/2) = 358.75Lm. The triplet's output is 3x358.75=1076.25. But in fact the actual current of the LED is about 1.1A, so 1100 lumens is quite adequate.


I might be accused of being picky here but you can't expect the bin average for the top bin. The yields in the different bins certainly aren't equivalent, you will expect more R4s than R5s, and more low R5s than high.

Cree quote 367max @1A. Bins are 7% so 341 guaranteed is all you can say.

Though the lumen increase from 1 -> 1.1A is 7% so you get back to 367/1100. 

And then I could rant some about heat from the driver....


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

znomit said:


> And then I could rant some about heat from the driver....


as for the driver, running with 91% efficiency it dissipates less than 1watt. It's less than 10% of total power disipated by the unit so no need to take this into account. Especially when a quality low thermal resistance thin-polyamide MCPCB used (T111). 0.9Watts is simply "nothing" for a 1.5mm MCPCB 20mm in diameter 

the main advantages of having the driver running on the same plate with a LED

it's possible to optimize the board to run at a high frequency by minimizing high-current loops areas.
this significantly reduced EMS and increases the overall performance.
in this design it's simple to implement accurate thermal control. It doesn't depend on the flashlight design. It can operate even if this engine is used solely with no thermal sink.
it makes possible very compact and very thermal efficient designs because the all remaining space in the flashlight can be used as radiator, no need to reserve an extra space for a separate bulky driver


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

*question*

as long as I'll need to retrace the board for L33.2, I have an idea to find some room for small MCU for more accurate and smart thermal management and, of course, for brightness control. One question - how the modes are selected? Just to reserve a couple of pins for a remote button?


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

quazzle said:


> as long as I'll need to retrace the board for L33.2, I have an idea to find some room for small MCU for more accurate and smart thermal management and, of course, for brightness control. One question - how the modes are selected? Just to reserve a couple of pins for a remote button?


Yes, that would be ok. Just keep it simple, high, low flash is ok! You might also consider another option, mode change when power is out. Thus, there is no need for an extra button or wiring. Each time the unit is temporarily shut off, it will turn on with the next mode, like DX flashlights......


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Giant-Lander said:


> Yes, that would be ok. Just keep it simple, high, low flash is ok! You might also consider another option, mode change when power is out. Thus, there is no need for an extra button or wiring. Each time the unit is temporarily shut off, it will turn on with the next mode, like DX flashlights......


thank you! This strengthened me in the idea of mode controlling by short power cut-offs. But technically all ways can be combined for maximum flexibility. And I think to add one more:

1) Modes loop in cycle after a short power cut-off. But if you just switch it on after some break - it remembers the last mode and don't change it. Agree that two, maximum three modes are enough in that case. Most generic. 100%, 50% and flashing strobe may be. I'm not sure about the last.

2) Two bins for external optional button. More modes are available here.

3) Control digital signal which are mixed into the power line. The modes are changed by an optional control unit which is connected in parallel to the power supply and controls all the lights which share the same supply unit.

I think that would be nice idea.


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

This would cover the whole deal......Sounds very promising. Moreover, less switches/buttons means a more sealed unit. And you can fit (and find) sealed inline two-cable on-off power switches far more easily than a separate switch.
By the way, you may want to sell the driver boards independently some day. One might want to use his own housing and optics and the applications are endless (Dive lights -lots of $$$-, car projectors etc.....)


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

quazzle said:


> as long as I'll need to retrace the board for L33.2, I have an idea to find some room for small MCU for more accurate and smart thermal management and, of course, for brightness control. One question - how the modes are selected? Just to reserve a couple of pins for a remote button?


I guess it depends on what you see as the primary application for this light module. If this is for a bike light, I'm not a big fan of switching the power off and on to change modes. Much prefer to do this with a momentary switch. Momentary switch opens up all kinds of possibilities such ramping up and down the level if the button is held down. You can also sense single and double-clicks for special functions, etc. One possible concern with controlling power/levels this way is the module will always be drawing some amount of power, so depending on how much standby current is required this could drain batteries.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Giant-Lander said:


> This would cover the whole deal......Sounds very promising. Moreover, less switches/buttons means a more sealed unit. And you can fit (and find) sealed inline two-cable on-off power switches far more easily than a separate switch.
> By the way, you may want to sell the driver boards independently some day. One might want to use his own housing and optics and the applications are endless (Dive lights -lots of $$$-, car projectors etc.....)


sure, I will. As long as I'll find a dealer


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

kwarwick said:


> I guess it depends on what you see as the primary application for this light module. If this is for a bike light, I'm not a big fan of switching the power off and on to change modes. Much prefer to do this with a momentary switch. Momentary switch opens up all kinds of possibilities such ramping up and down the level if the button is held down. You can also sense single and double-clicks for special functions, etc. One possible *concern with controlling power/levels this way is the module will always be drawing some amount of power, so depending on how much standby current is required this could drain batteries*.


Actually "quazzle" says he'll combine both options. 
Cotrolling the levels via on/off sequence will have exactly the opposite effect, NO power drain on standby, as there will be no power supply with the switch off.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Right, but typically in this configuration the momentary switch also controls power... no point having two switches.



Giant-Lander said:


> Actually "quazzle" says he'll combine both options.
> Cotrolling the levels via on/off sequence will have exactly the opposite effect, NO power drain on standby, as there will be no power supply with the switch off.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> as long as I'll need to retrace the board for L33.2, I have an idea to find some room for small MCU for more accurate and smart thermal management and, of course, for brightness control. One question - how the modes are selected? Just to reserve a couple of pins for a remote button?


After reading this and what was written by others that followed I'm going to have to ask a question: *Does this mean that the driver and switch are going to be housed within the light head ??* Regardless of what modes you offer this would be a big plus. By the way as for modes, I second the request for High=half-power=flash. I'm really not a big fan of strobe but a flash @ 1 per 1.5-2 sec. would be acceptable.

Can't wait to see what you come up with...:thumbsup:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Quazzle, you might find this thread useful: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=252933

This thread is part of the input that [email protected] used to develop the UIB mode for his drivers. I realize taskled's UI is probably more complex than what you are looking to build but there are some really good comments in here. To sum it up, keep it simple!!! To me the tap to toggle and press for off/on are super simple and intuitive.

A simple two level hi/low is all I need. It would be great to have some way to adjust the high and low levels (on board pots?). I'd like to have the low setting as low as possible because I only use it when stopped so I don't blind my riding partners. I have no use for a blink/strobe/flash mode, the only night riding I do is MTB, so it would be great to have the ablity to disable the blinky mode some how. (on board mini-switch?)

If you could incorporate a diming function on your pcb I think it would be a huge winner. There would no longer be a need to have a separate driver. A big bonus IMO, and a real way to differentiate yourself from the competition!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

jmitchell13 said:


> ...A simple two level hi/low is all I need. It would be great to have some way to adjust the high and low levels (on board pots?). I'd like to have the low setting as low as possible because I only use it when stopped so I don't blind my riding partners. I have no use for a blink/strobe/flash mode, the only night riding I do is MTB, so it would be great to have the ablity to disable the blinky mode some how. (on board mini-switch?)
> 
> If you could incorporate a diming function on your pcb I think it would be a huge winner. There would no longer be a need to have a separate driver. A big bonus IMO, and a real way to differentiate yourself from the competition!


Mitch, you have some great ideas there. An adjustable board pot for adjustment of a particular light level...Sweet idea! I too really don't like the strobe/flash modes but are useful for people who ride in the day. An on board switch to disable flash mode is a great idea as well.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

My two cents: Control for MTB Lights:

Two seconds push: toggle between on & off (stateful - remembers on power setting last used).

Momentary push when on (10ms to 500ms): toggle between 100% & 50% power settings.

Momentary push when off (10ms to 500ms): light for 3 seconds (great for finding torch in the dark).

Other pushes (eg between 500ms & 2s: ignore (didn't mean to push the button).

For my MTB use flashing isn't helpful except for an emergency beacon. For road use the light simply has too many lumens to be flashing (ie is f'ing offensive for oncoming traffic).

Hope this helps.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

quazzle,
You need way bigger images on your web site, I can't see much detail in those tiny images.

Do some 1200, 1280 or 1600 wide images on the L33.2.
The thumbnails are fine, but the larger images are not much bigger than the thumbnails.

I have people asking me about fitting these into the Marwi housings, but I can't tell them much of anything based on the those tiny images.

Edit: Also like to add that a high and low are all that's needed, IMO. Flashing is annoying. Lots of modes sounds like a good idea on paper, but not very useful.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

El34 said:


> quazzle,
> You need way bigger images on your web site, I can't see much detail in those tiny images.
> 
> Do some 1200, 1280 or 1600 wide images on the L33.2.
> ...


Thanks for comments, I agree about the modes.
As for image resolution, I'll bare this in mind for future but currently I have no high-res pics of the pre-production samples. 
On the other hand the parts have very basic and simple geometry. I'll provide detailed drawings with exact sizes - this should be enough. 
L30.4 - round metal basis 17.9mm in diameter
L31.1 - round metal basis 13.9mm in diameter
L33.2 - round metal basis 20.0mm in diameter


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

My 4 cents: I'd like to see this with one UI: On, On, On, and On.
I'd put 4 in a housing not functionally dissimilar to the one depicted above (okay, but I wouldn't be done until I polished it, it's stupidly easy as seen here with a Rockford Fosgate EX car audio controller case I made)-










with a bank of four switches you could turn on in one swipe and knock a couple down as needed for dimming. You could angle them to various degrees in their mounts as well so maybe the inside two were high beams and the outside 2 lows (for those of us that do more urban riding than dirt) or for dirt riders the outsides could be skewed for a little more spill. Of course this requires a power supply for each of the 4 (unless you feel like chasing down a separate controller , not me) but that only really complicates your battery holder or recharging scheme, an 8 conductor cable and plug are no brainers and common as hell.

In any case I agree flashers are useless, tho somebody must want them because we keep having them forced on us.

I don't even flash my taillight, under the purely unscientific belief it might make drunks or angry motorists drive at it. SInce I've not had that happen I consider my theory completely validated.

Hey I said I was unscientific.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> Thanks for comments, I agree about the modes.


What's your current thinking on the dimming controller? Do you have a rough time frame on when they may be available? Is it weeks or months?

If you can incorporate a simple dimming function I will definitely buy some. I'm looking to make a lightweight helmet light with a remote switch, like vancbiker's microlight. No extra circuit board for dimming would be stellar!

Lastly, have you considered making a version with 4 LEDs?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> What's your current thinking on the dimming controller? Do you have a rough time frame on when they may be available? Is it weeks or months?


about 4-5 weeks. I have tested new topology and already ordered the parts.



jmitchell13 said:


> If you can incorporate a simple dimming function I will definitely buy some. I'm looking to make a lightweight helmet light with a remote switch, like vancbiker's microlight. No extra circuit board for dimming would be stellar!


it will be a separate version of L33 module with a subminiature secondary PCB mounted inside in a second layer. So the whole size will be the same, a cylinder 20mm in diameter and 8mm in height including the lens.

The dim control module will support 3 different protocols and memory. Firstly, switching between two modes (Hi/Low) by a shot power cut-off (like in mc torches). Also the PCB has an input for an external button. With the button more modes are available, including flash. And lastly, which is most exciting for me, the dim control listens for digital signal distributed in the power line. This way it will be possible to control even several lights connected in parallel to the same power source just by one remote "smart" switch. The digital protocol will provide full control over the light. Any brightness, any flash patterns.



jmitchell13 said:


> Lastly, have you considered making a version with 4 LEDs?


I have tried 4 LEDs comparing with a triplet. From my stand point - the difference is worth no effort.

In parallel with L33 I'll start L50 engine based on 12xXPG topology. I tested 12 LEDs running at 1.3A - it's damn bright. it's a killer light.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> ...In parallel with L33 I'll start L50 engine based on 12xXPG topology. I tested 12 LEDs running at 1.3A - it's damn bright. it's a killer light.


I'm going to assume you will be including these with your L50/ 12xXPG kits...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> I'm going to assume you will be including these with your L50/ 12xXPG kits...


lol! I think this one will fit better


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

These look awesome!!! I think this is probably the coolest thing that has come along on the do it yourself front in a while... even cooler than the addition of XPG's!! Awesome job creating these items and I know I will be in line for them when they come out!!


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> about 4-5 weeks. I have tested new topology and already ordered the parts.
> 
> it will be a separate version of L33 module with a subminiature secondary PCB mounted inside in a second layer. So the whole size will be the same, a cylinder 20mm in diameter and 8mm in height including the lens.
> 
> The dim control module will support 3 different protocols and memory. Firstly, switching between two modes (Hi/Low) by a shot power cut-off (like in mc torches). Also the PCB has an input for an external button. With the button more modes are available, including flash. And lastly, which is most exciting for me, the dim control listens for digital signal distributed in the power line. This way it will be possible to control even several lights connected in parallel to the same power source just by one remote "smart" switch. The digital protocol will provide full control over the light. Any brightness, any flash patterns.


:cornut: :band: 
I (not so patiently) await the release!!! and pricing info...


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## glasius (Jan 14, 2009)

I was looking around on this forum to make a DIY bike light. And I got inspired by a lot of guys. Therefor I was looking for parts and of course a LED.

When I saw the L33.2, I was amazed by the size of it. So tiny... This is the one I want.

Now I see that Quazzle is doing some tweaking with the driver, by adding a potentiometer to add a dimming function. Then I came with another idea, that is also based on using different switch modes.

Isn't it an idea to have a switch that can switch between on-flash-off. And in the 'on' and 'flash' modes, you can use the potentiometer to dimm the lights. So when you use the 'on' mode you can dimm it, but also in the 'flash' mode you can dimm the amount of light. Very usefull when you do your commuting so the upcoming traffic don't get blinded by the light.


P.S.: Sorry for my bad english. I'm from the Netherlands so english is not my nature language.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

Do you really find using potentiometer is convenient? I think it's just a "poor man's solution" when you don't have modes.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

glasius said:


> I was looking around on this forum to make a DIY bike light. And I got inspired by a lot of guys. Therefor I was looking for parts and of course a LED.
> When I saw the L33.2, I was amazed by the size of it. So tiny... This is the one I want.
> 
> Now I see that Quazzle is doing some tweaking with the driver, by adding a potentiometer to add a dimming function....


Thanks, I work hard to release it asap.
Regarding the dimming function, yes, I'm working on it now and... better to explain the idea with this picture:









The onboard MCU will decode control signal distributed over the power line and basically applies no limits on the dimming levels and possible strobe patterns. The external command unit simply says "turn off" or "turn on" or "set the dimming ratio to X". 256 different brightness levels are available.

Of course this engine will also support a "classic" wired button for simple designs.

I have updated the article on my site:
https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/new_leds


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Nice write up on site. Looking good! :thumbsup: 

Got over 1100 lumens out of the front with my three XP-G R5's: ride with a good heat sink at less than -15 C!


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> Thanks, I work hard to release it asap.
> Regarding the dimming function, yes, I'm working on it now and... better to explain the idea with this picture:
> 
> 
> ...


This sounds really great, specially in such a compact package. I suspect most of the diy'er in here, including myself, would use the wired button option for dimming.

Can you add a little more explaination on how the push button dimming will work? How to set number of levels? How to set each brightness level? How to toggle between each brighness level?


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

It's the BloomBox of Led lighting.

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/bus...bloom_box_generates_electricity_and_buzz.html

The product of the future...and always will be.

You have to wonder why on the DIY forum.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

*a problem*

well, I'm stuck with a problem, your opinion should help to decide what to do.

The PCB is ready and I spent hours trying to pack all components into this tiny area. I've been mislead with the latest atmel chips renaming and suddenly discovered that the chip which I have selected has no EEPROM. This is about the latest ATTiny10 which replaced old Attiny10 with EEPROM. It means that the onboard controller will have no "memory". It will not able to remember the last mode after resume and also it can't be programmed.

On one hand of course I can try to re-trace the board for ATTiny13A in tiny QDFN10 package. It occupies 3x3mm area and this is all I can afford for a MCU on the L33.2 module. There's no guarantee that I'll succeed because it's a very very dense layout. Another big issue is programming of a QDFN. There's no test'n'burn connector for it so it should be burned on a board. So technically this way isn't easy and may be it's not worth doing at all.

On the other hand if leave it as is the module will become less smart as originally planned. It will always start with the most bright mode and the dimming levels will be not configurable. In this situation an external "smart" wireless button will help. All memory functions can be moved to the smart button while L33.2 remain simple if a wired switch is used.

From my stand point having no memory also means no potential problems with possible leading the unit into some unintended persistent state with no factory reset option. And again, no memory and no programming means simplicity in 1-button interface implementation.

What you'd recommend?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

The simpler the better is what I like.

Also, whatever keeps the cost down.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

El34 said:


> The simpler the better is what I like.
> 
> Aslo, whatever keeps the cost down.


What he said.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

It was me who said the UI would be good to be stateful.

That said, I'm completely happy for it to simply work consistently (ie always start up 'fresh and new' each time. No problem at all!

As the others have said - 'simple is good'.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I have a feeling this is going to be expensive as it is.

I can't imagine this being cheap with all the work that has gone into it so far.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

El34 said:


> I have a feeling this is going to be expensive as it is.


about the price, do you know that a single XP-G die costs about $6-$10 deneding on the store (digikey is very expensive, cutter offers better prices)? We do not order bulk orders (thousands) so we pay exactly the same for components as you.

So please do not expect that a triplet with driver, MCU and optics will be cheaper that 3 discrete XP-G dies bought from cutter or digikey. I'm not a MTBR community sponsor, sorry.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

What is a rough guestimate on pricing?

No one is holding you to a price, but do you have a rough guess?


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## glasius (Jan 14, 2009)

EI34 said:


> I have a feeling this is going to be expensive as it is.





quazzle said:


> So please do not expect that a triplet with driver, MCU and optics will be cheaper that 3 discrete XP-G dies bought from cutter or digikey. I'm not a MTBR community sponsor, sorry.


Okay... But can you give me, and maybe other MTBR forum members who wants to know, an estimation of the retailprice?

I'm guessing it will be round about $35,-?


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

glasius said:


> Okay... But can you give me, and maybe other MTBR forum members who wants to know, an estimation of the retailprice?
> 
> I'm guessing it will be round about $35,-?


$35 for 3*XP-G with driver and modes is a bargain


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> well, I'm stuck with a problem, your opinion should help to decide what to do.
> 
> The PCB is ready and I spent hours trying to pack all components into this tiny area. I've been mislead with the latest atmel chips renaming and suddenly discovered that the chip which I have selected has no EEPROM. This is about the latest ATTiny10 which replaced old Attiny10 with EEPROM. It means that the onboard controller will have no "memory". It will not able to remember the last mode after resume and also it can't be programmed.
> 
> ...


I don't want a complex driver. All I need is to toggle from hi to low and then turn off. With a single button just click to toggle hi/low, and press to turn off. When it is turned on have it come on in low. It would be nice to somehow tune the hi/low settings. If it can't be in the software maybe a resistor on the board or some other mean through hardware?

Keep it simple for the first generation. Your next version can have all the bells and whistles.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

> I don't want a complex driver. All I need is to toggle from hi to low and then turn off. With a single button just click to toggle hi/low, and press to turn off.


This is exactly what I like also.
Most mountain bikers I know and ride with like this exact same setup also.

If you are thinking of using some external module for switching modes, you can have a simple and a complex version.

That gives everybody a choice and will keep the price lower for those that don't want or need S.O.S., flashing and 16 modes like some of those silly flashlight driver boards.

Just my .02


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

glasius said:


> Okay... But can you give me, and maybe other MTBR forum members who wants to know, an estimation of the retailprice?
> I'm guessing it will be round about $35,-?


very rough, so please don't consider as a final.

for example very similar L30.3 module








is offered at $29.9 in minimal lot of 10pcs (check it here http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order)

ok, L33.2 will contain two more LEDs and some additional curcuitry but $35-$40 looks feasable to me.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

That price range sounds fine to me.

You have to consider all the labor that the L33.2 will save you when you are assembling a light from scratch.

This unit seems like it will be a nice package to me.


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

glasius said:


> I'm guessing it will be round about $35,-?


Add it up:

Cutter triple R5 XPG 20mm board $24.28 USD (three bare emitters are $20.73)
Carclo 10507 20mm Triple narrow optic $8.98 USD

All that plus custom on board driver. And for comparison, a bflex is $30 (although it's 25mm). All prices do not include shipping.

Personally, I don't see a big advantage in the on board driver. It would end up a little thicker with a separate driver, but not by much. You would probably need the extra mass to dissipate the heat anyway. You could add a cheap Kaido/DX driver for a couple bucks and build your own 20mm light today for about $35 into the guts. These parts have been available for some time.

That said, it's been thoroughly discussed how the 20mm triple optics are not big enough to properly focus the wide viewing angle of an XP-G. So I'm not sure it's worth the effort.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

You also have to weigh the advantage of saving space with an on-board driver against the disadvantage of not being able to upgrade the LEDs w/o replacing the driver. I have lights now that started with XRE-Q3s -> XRE-R2s -> XPG-R5 all using the same housing, driver, battery pack.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Homebrew said:


> Personally, I don't see a big advantage in the on board driver. It would end up a little thicker with a separate driver, but not by much. You would probably need the extra mass to dissipate the heat anyway.


not really. this simplifies the whole design eliminating a need for extra room inside the body for a driver. This way the whole body may be designed as a radiator with optimal low-resistance thermal path. The size and weight in such design can be reduced significantly having the same heat dissipation gradient. Also the thermal control circuitry works more reliable if placed on the same board with LEDs. Again, it's a more simple thus more reliable design. Minimal wires, minimal manually soldered joints; these all improves the reliability, thermal stability and shock-resistance.

Agree, this is a not a mainstream approach. High-density layouts require special equipment and more expensive components. But from my stand point it's worth efforts at least as I'd like to have it on my bike. 



Homebrew said:


> You could add a cheap Kaido/DX driver for a couple bucks and build your own 20mm light today for about $35 into the guts.


you may want to say that an ugly cheap driver from DX can handle 10 watts with 95% efficiency providing stable constant current in input range 5-9.5V or 9.5-22V?

All I knew before had a stability problems running at high currents and at low temperatures. And again, all they're based on a bulk toroidal not shielded inductors which generate a lot of EMI running at low frequencies.



Homebrew said:


> That said, it's been thoroughly discussed how the 20mm triple optics are not big enough to properly focus the wide viewing angle of an XP-G. So I'm not sure it's worth the effort.


Agreed. Carclo triplet together with XP-Gs provides a relatively wide light spill. Did you see it in your hands? For me it's fine for a bike headlight, many guys here prefer it too. But for those who love throwers I'd recommend to use XP-E. The rather that latest XP-E bins are rated to run at 1A, provide more spotty light source and more warm temperatures. So I think that XP-E R3 version should also exist.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

quazzle said:


> So I think that XP-E R3 version should also exist.


Yo! Can I control two boards with one pushbutton? I really like this idea.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Itess said:


> Yo! Can I control two boards with one pushbutton? I really like this idea.


easily if it's a digital button which employs the wireless control mode of the light


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Homebrew said:


> Personally, I don't see a big advantage in the on board driver. It would end up a little thicker with a separate driver, but not by much. You would probably need the extra mass to dissipate the heat anyway. You could add a cheap Kaido/DX driver for a couple bucks and build your own 20mm light today for about $35 into the guts. These parts have been available for some time.


For me the huge advantage here is not having to add the extra space, thus increasing the size and weight, needed to house a driver in the light head.

I only use a helmet light. The DIY light I have now is a little too big and bulky for my liking. It pushes my helmet forward toward my eyes. IMO, the smaller and lighter I can make a light the better.

$35 for a self contained driver/led/optic engine is a great deal. I'll take two!


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

quazzle said:


> easily if it's a digital button which employs the wireless control mode of the light


I understand about digital button, but normal pushbutton is out of luck? Master/slave boards somehow?


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## Homebrew (Jan 2, 2004)

jmitchell13 said:


> For me the huge advantage here is not having to add the extra space, thus increasing the size and weight, needed to house a driver in the light head.
> 
> I only use a helmet light. The DIY light I have now is a little too big and bulky for my liking. It pushes my helmet forward toward my eyes. IMO, the smaller and lighter I can make a light the better.
> 
> $35 for a self contained driver/led/optic engine is a great deal. I'll take two!


We are talking in terms of weight between one pcb board vs two couldn't be 5g. And length, what? 5mm? Sorry be the dimensional difference is negligible and purely theoretical.

And I guess wasn't actually suggesting using a cheap driver but just trying saying it could be done to meet the price point. And that if one were so inclined, the basic parts are readily available today.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Homebrew said:


> We are talking in terms of weight between one pcb board vs two couldn't be 5g. And length, what? 5mm? Sorry be the dimensional difference is negligible and purely theoretical.


the smallest cheap driver I know which can drive a triplet of XP-Gs at 1.1A looks like this:








is the that 5mm you told?  in fact 26 x 13mm.

L33.2 size (including 3 LEDs, 10W driver with thermal management and optics) is 20mm diam x 7mm depth. That's the difference.

saying not doing, show me an example?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: I think it is a cracking idea and would be in the queue to buy some @ 35$ 
as long as the leds were XPEs the beam from the carclo triple is pretty good with the XPEs , 
here is a thought 2 XPGs and 1 XPE or the other way round .
works well for the seven up mixing the leds .

Hi Low On Off is all I would ever need 

Come on Quazzle bring this to the market :thumbsup: 

or better still do the same on a seven up board - 4 XPGs 3 XPEs running from a 4S Li Ion pack


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> :thumbsup: I think it is a cracking idea and would be in the queue to buy some @ 35$
> as long as the leds were XPEs the beam from the carclo triple is pretty good with the XPEs ,
> here is a thought 2 XPGs and 1 XPE or the other way round .
> works well for the seven up mixing the leds .
> ...


Thanks, Troutie, your opinion has a solid value  
Regarding the killer light I already planned 12 XPG/E dual-channel engine with Carclo 10mm quads which you know very well. Each channel (6 LEDs) will have a separate control port.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

troutie-mtb said:


> :thumbsup: I think it is a cracking idea and would be in the queue to buy some @ 35$
> as long as the leds were XPEs the beam from the carclo triple is pretty good with the XPEs ,
> here is a thought 2 XPGs and 1 XPE or the other way round .
> works well for the seven up mixing the leds .
> ...


Well said.

If there are future ones, as there have been earlier versions, as new LED's come out, then an upgrade path will exist. Being able to use the backside of a light to cool it without a driver getting in the way would be nice. Troutie won't have to have a chamber for a driver on one side.

We are also gettting up in lumens where a light if surpassed, is still very useful in some capacity or saleable, so the upgrade path issue may not be as important as it was. The wireless feature makes it a bit nicer to operate than a cheap driver, apparently designed to be more dependable, and the light design will be simpler, so $35 would indeed be a steal.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Homebrew said:


> We are talking in terms of weight between one pcb board vs two couldn't be 5g. And length, what? 5mm? Sorry be the dimensional difference is negligible and purely theoretical.
> 
> And I guess wasn't actually suggesting using a cheap driver but just trying saying it could be done to meet the price point. And that if one were so inclined, the basic parts are readily available today.


Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm talking about the difference in the housing. A housing that doesn't need to accomodate a driver can be very small, look at vancbikers microlight. No need to have an internal pocket, means of enclosing the pocket and associated hardware to keep it closed. And regarding vancbikers microlight, there would be no need to find an external place for the driver.

Sure I'm not going to cut the size down 80%, but if I'm going to invest my time and money in another light, I will choose components that allow me to have as small a housing as I can.

Plain and simple, this simlifies everything. IMO, this is a far superior solution than having a separate driver. Smaller, less complex housing, easier wiring.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> ... A housing that doesn't need to accomodate a driver can be very small, look at vancbikers microlight. No need to have an internal pocket, means of enclosing the pocket and associated hardware to keep it closed. And regarding vancbikers microlight, there would be no need to find an external place for the driver. ... Smaller, less complex housing, easier wiring.


exactly, thanks. Here's another real market example I did in the past with L30.3 engine (the same idea, a single-mode driver MCPCB but with sole SSC P4).









As three XP-Gs which run @1.1A dissipate only 5-6W of the heat power, the body for new L33 light I don't expect to be much larger that those small above.


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## Birdhouse (Feb 18, 2010)

nice finger nails
wich paint you used for it xD


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm talking about the difference in the housing. A housing that doesn't need to accomodate a driver can be very small, look at vancbikers microlight. No need to have an internal pocket, means of enclosing the pocket and associated hardware to keep it closed. And regarding vancbikers microlight, there would be no need to find an external place for the driver.


This is exactly why I did the microlight the way I did. It is driven with a buckpuck. If I had made the housing large enough to hold that and the emitters it would have ended up ~3X larger. Probably about the size of Scar's amoeba lights. Still pretty small compared to most everything else but bigger than I wanted to have. Having the buckpuck with the batteries works OK but kind of makes for a "dumb" light. The microlight is the only light I have built that has not used one of the flex family of drivers. With the driver not with the emitters there was not a lot of sense in using an expensive driver with temp sensing and autodimming capability.

When Quazzle gets this into a product mode, I hope he will provide emitter options. I am in agreement with Troutie that XPEs or a mix of XPEs and Gs with the Carclo triple 20mm will give a better helmet beam. I already have a design in my head that would use this assembly in a 21.5mm dia. X 25mm long housing constructed somewhat similar to the microlight.

IMO a helmet light needs to be unobtrusive, almost as if the light were an integral part of the helmet. Small enough that it does not need to be mounted on the peak of the helmet to catch branches or be hazardous in a crash. Quazzles product here will allow "smarter" lights be that small.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Probably about the size of Scar's amoeba lights*



> Originally posted by Vancbiker
> ...would have ended up ~3X larger. Probably about the size of Scar's amoeba lights.


Now that was funny. Made me shoot Diet Coke out my nose!

Micro light - 16mm (.63") x 24mm (.94") x 20mm (.79") 
Amoeba - 19mm (.75") x 38mm (1.50") x 35mm (1.38")

Fixed it for you


> ...would have ended up *~1.5X larger*. Probably about the size of Scar's amoeba lights.


:thumbsup:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

scar said:


> Now that was funny. Made me shoot Diet Coke out my nose!
> 
> Micro light - 16mm (.63") x 24mm (.94") x 20mm (.79")
> Amoeba - 19mm (.75") x 38mm (1.50") x 35mm (1.38")
> ...


I was not trying to offend, sorry if it sounded that way. I was meaning 3X in volume as that is how I think of items when trying to package them.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*No offense taken...*

just made me double check the numbers (is mine really *3x* bigger??:???: )

The Micro light is an outstanding piece of craftmanship! :thumbsup:

***


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

This driver/LED combo looks great! If you look at the cost of using a Taskled driver, anything under $50.00 will be a good deal. And add the fact that the housing design, besides being smaller, will also be far simpler, and assembly will be easier as well, this could be a real winner.

My requirements are pretty simple, on/off, hi/low, and some way to set the max current. I would like to run them lower than 1000ma, more like 500-700 on high.

I'll take 2!

Mark

PS: I am just finishing my CAD design for a triple using the 20mm board and a Maxflex, now I may have to wait!


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Fun to see this product develop. Saving up...

Enough on the plate to get this to market but....

Sometimes if you can knockoff a closely related item it can help spread development expenses. This might be more a commuter's desire, but maybe, a red XP-E version at a half Amp, or two slaved with one board leds and lens only for a killer tailight setup. SuperFlashes are great, but they are pretty directional. A DIY Dinotte CuLite or pair of them would be pretty nice. With the remote control, a simple accellerometer control to up the current might make them decent brake lights even progressively brighter. Signal lights might be feasible, amber anyone?


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## kaos42 (Feb 24, 2010)

could this 1100lmn LED be used in a MJ-808 ?


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

kaos42 said:


> could this 1100lmn LED be used in a MJ-808 ?


Simple answer is: no.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Itess said:


> Simple answer is: no.


As a quick drop in to an MJ-808 head, no. In a gutted light head with a new mount/heat sink, any issues other than a lot of work?


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

With "a lot of work" you can just make another more suitable light body.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I can't see why a M.S. body can't work. Like BrianMc said, you are definitely going to need a custom heat sink that will not only dissipate the heat and allow room for the optic but you will need a new switch (likely) as well.

My hope is someone on forum ( like EL34 ) will offer custom heat sinks to fit the old Marwi light bodies as well as the MagicShines. Since you don't have to allow a lot of space behind the heat sink for a driver, this should make retro-fits a breeze as long as switches are available and quazzle comes through with the goods. :thumbsup:


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

*My interpretation of a double housing.*


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

BrianMc said:


> As a quick drop in to an MJ-808 head, no. In a gutted light head with a new mount/heat sink, any issues other than a lot of work?


consider three things:
1) voltage range. L33.2 admits 4.8V as a minimum and 9.5V as a maximum. As any boost regulator the higher the voltage the better. 
2) size. L33.2 is exactly 20mm in diam and 7mm in height. 
3) heat sink. L33.2 requires a flat metal basis 20mm in diameter to be mounted on.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

phburns said:


> *My interpretation of a double housing...*


*

looks good. I do think that active cooling is rather an option coz the radiator surface is sufficient to dissipate 10W from the first glance.*


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## Alekz-Od (Jan 28, 2008)

To *Itess* 
Maybe just need to make a spacer between the original heatsink and L33.2?


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

Alekz-Od said:


> To *Itess*
> Maybe just need to make a spacer between the original heatsink and L33.2?


What for? I did this with just a dremel, ID = 20mm, quazzle's module would fit without problem.










Doing heatsink, spacer, new pushbutton and so on would require much the same effort and tools.


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## Alekz-Od (Jan 28, 2008)

*Itess*
I saw this case on the Velomania.ru
Not necessarily to make а new "heatsink, spacer, new pushbutton".
Need only spacer between the old heatsink and L33.2. Сan use the old button and the old heatsynk. Old heatsynk can be glued to the case with Arctic Alumina.


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## kaos42 (Feb 24, 2010)

quazzle said:


> consider three things:
> 1) voltage range. L33.2 admits 4.8V as a minimum and 9.5V as a maximum. As any boost regulator the higher the voltage the better.
> 2) size. L33.2 is exactly 20mm in diam and 7mm in height.
> 3) heat sink. L33.2 requires a flat metal basis 20mm in diameter to be mounted on.


so it is possible with the right parts and time


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

Alekz-Od said:


> *Itess*
> I saw this case on the Velomania.ru
> Not necessarily to make а new "heatsink, spacer, new pushbutton".
> Need only spacer between the old heatsink and L33.2. Сan use the old button and the old heatsynk. Old heatsynk can be glued to the case with Arctic Alumina.


I am giving up. When you make such a thing, please show me how it looks like and measure how good the thermal path is. In my opinion, the MS is good as it is and it's not worth to tinker at it if it costs more than $15 (if it's not about battery) and end product is not much better but most likely uglier.


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

in for the final product
good stuff:thumbsup:


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> in for the final product
> good stuff:thumbsup:


+1

will need 4 of this!! 2 with XPE R3 and 2 with XPG R5(S2)


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Itess said:


> What for? I did this with just a dremel, ID = 20mm, quazzle's module would fit without problem.
> 
> Doing heatsink, spacer, new pushbutton and so on would require much the same effort and tools.


How on earth did you keep the cuts straight using a dremel? Got any pics of it in action, the dremel that is, not the light.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

emu26 said:


> How on earth did you keep the cuts straight using a dremel? Got any pics of it in action, the dremel that is, not the light.


 I am using a table saw then dremel + dremel workstation + dividing head + compound table. Dividing head is set in horizontal position. Sorry, no pics, I am disappointed with dremel and now I am using Proxxon BFB 2000 + BFW 40/E + KT 150. Like here (KT 70 is on the picture):


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Itess said:


> I am using a table saw then dremel + dremel workstation + dividing head + compound table. Dividing head is set in horizontal position. Sorry, no pics, I am disappointed with dremel and now I am using Proxxon BFB 2000 + BFW 40/E + KT 150.


Nicely done. I admire your efforts. :thumbsup:

You make a good point that you can make your own case for about the same amount of work as modding an MJ-808 IF you have such tools AND you can use them skillfully. I'd build my own case if I had those tools, too. Might have a bit of a learning curve, though. Modding an MJ-808? You must be kidding! Very understandable point of view.

I find that part of the fun of building the lights is adapting the design to the tools at hand. Some of us are much more tool deprived. Some have CNC mills. I have a bench vise and hand tools. Some have less. Some have more tolerance for their light to look DIY.

A person with an MJ-808 could mod it with a bench vise and fairly normal house repair kinds of hand tools. I did for heat sinks in Marwi housings. The MJ-808 appears to me to be even easier.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

BrianMc said:


> I find that part of the fun of building the lights is adapting the design to the tools at hand.


Yeah! Me too! 


> Some have more tolerance for their light to look DIY.


 Yes, that's the main point.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Apologies to the OP, quazzle, for the discussion of the MJ-808 possibility. I don't even have one. But the possibilities of the L33.2 are exciting.

I imagine the first thread showing how to adapt the L33.2 when it is available will be a popular thread indeed. It would be a nice boost for quazzle's sales. There really aren't a lot of other choices at 900+ lumens for that light. One of the reasons I did not go that route.


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## Alekz-Od (Jan 28, 2008)

*Itess*
I have talked about such a spacer. Openings to reduce weight and thermal inertia, and for fastening. Use spacer will increase the temperature of the LED at 2-5 degrees Celsius.
Spacer shows hexagonal because it can not be round, just a piece of aluminum.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

I've been watching this thread with a lot of interest. I'm waiting for Quazzle to come through with the goods so I can make up a new light using two of these units.
Couple of questions:
Firstly to Quazzle, will you be able to supply a decent switch for us home builders who don't want to have to shop around to much to find the right thing? (Yes, lazy I know).
Secondly, my current light uses a 14.4 volt lithium battery and it would be nice to be able to keep using it. If I run two of these in series, will that drop the voltage, or does it not work the same as doubling up batteries?
If not, will it run ok off say, a 7.2 volt 3.7a/hr nmhi battery for an RC car? I know these are pretty newb questions, but my strength is very much in the machining part. I am definitely NOT an electrical engineer.

Ta.
b.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Quazzle, any update on your progress/direction?


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## rideandshoot (Dec 18, 2006)

El34 said:


> The simpler the better is what I like.
> 
> Also, whatever keeps the cost down.


Me too. I've been lurking on this thread but if these come out in the configuration... single mode, very straight fwd as described in the original post it may launch my first DIY attempt.

My paypal finger is quivering


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

quazzle said:


> well, I'm stuck with a problem, your opinion should help to decide what to do.
> 
> The PCB is ready and I spent hours trying to pack all components into this tiny area. I've been mislead with the latest atmel chips renaming and suddenly discovered that the chip which I have selected has no EEPROM. This is about the latest ATTiny10 which replaced old Attiny10 with EEPROM. It means that the onboard controller will have no "memory". It will not able to remember the last mode after resume and also it can't be programmed.
> 
> ...


Great developement her quazzle :thumbsup:

My suggestion is similar with some others in this thread!

keep it simple: so "on/off" - "hi/mid" for biking is fine, but i would add a low mode for situations like standing still, talking with others, search in your backpack and so on...! :eekster:

Would love to hear what other guys here think about this "low" mode!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi med low rocks :thumbsup: 

but I want XPE R3s in mine . 

Paypal locked and loaded ready

I see a batteries inside beasty here


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hi med low rocks :thumbsup:
> 
> but I want XPE R3s in mine .
> 
> ...


sounds like a really nice helmet light!! :thumbsup: (small, a lot of light and all in one package: simply aweasome....)


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Whitedog1 said:


> Would love to hear what other guys here think about this "low" mode!!


I really only use High and low. The low would be exactly as you described, used when stopped so you don't blind anyone or to find something in my camelback.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Same here
Low is used for climbing and sitting still

High is used for descents.

I don't need two lows.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Depending on how much battery weight you're willing to carry, a medium level is a nice option for stretching runtime while still having adequate light to ride. As already mentioned, a dim setting is needed for repairs and safety meetings.

JZ


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Jim Z in VT said:


> Depending on how much battery weight you're willing to carry, a medium level is a nice option for stretching runtime while still having adequate light to ride. As already mentioned, a dim setting is needed for repairs and safety meetings.
> 
> JZ


+1 on that! thats exactly the point :thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

FWIW...I'm with Jimmy Z and Mr. Whitedog. Give me a good medium level that is still usable ( half the high level ) any night for longer run times. However a good low level is also needed for those times when you need to repair something or have a long fire road climb.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Problem with three levels is that the user interface stops working well. When riding my need is either full or less power.

Actually that is not quite true, the third state is needing to switch between these two power levels at the fastest possible speed.

Switching through states that are useless for riding (ie <300 lumens, flashing and off) is simply a big pain in the a$$.

HTH


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## rideandshoot (Dec 18, 2006)

Quazzle... 

Which ever gets it to market soonest. I'm ready to try the DIY thing with this. Paypal finger still twitching.

If it takes to long I may save enough to send Troutie an order for his baby trout.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

rideandshoot said:


> Quazzle...
> Which ever gets it to market soonest. I'm ready to try the DIY thing with this.


the parts are delaying. USPS has sent them to a wrong address. It means additional 2-3 weeks of waiting, sorry.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

quazzle said:


> the parts are delaying. USPS has sent them to a wrong address. It means additional 2-3 weeks of waiting, sorry.


I'm patient, the summer has long days


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> the parts are delaying. USPS has sent them to a wrong address. It means additional 2-3 weeks of waiting, sorry.


Not-so patiently waiting...
I still need to bore out the front to fit the light engine and optic, but you get the idea. It's almost too small for the cateye mount.


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## zukicon (Apr 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> the parts are delaying. USPS has sent them to a wrong address. It means additional 2-3 weeks of waiting, sorry.


any updates?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

zukicon said:


> any updates?


thanks for asking. The parts should be delivered in 1-2 weeks. And I'll need another week to prepare the samples and write specs.

In the meanwhile I'm experimenting with different AR coatings. See this picture:










This is my own collimator which I disclosed to see the internal light dissipation. I used a mineral lens with AR coating which reflects blue component back inside the collimator while warm light may go through. This another way to make a cool light a bit warmer. This is a case for XP-G R5 which are still not available in warm bins.

This approach is not lossy comparing to lenses or collimators with no AR coating. I simply improve the lens efficiency in warm spectrum while blue light is reflected by glass as it has no AR coating.

I also finished with metal anodized parts for portable LiPo unit. I plan to integrate 4 2500mah cells with charge/discharge controller in this metal/carbon housing. The dimensions are 80x45x35mm, expected wight is 200g, expected capacity is 37Wh. It has a waterproof design:


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## ignis (May 19, 2009)

quazzle, do you ever plan to sell 100% ready to use bike lights with batteries and controls? I am now in the process of selecting a decent bike light to use during summer, but every light I've found so far is either too dim, too big, too heavy, too expensive, or ridiculously crap and inconvenient mounting mechanism.

your light seems to be bright, small, light and cheap, but there's no info on availability or sales.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

ignis said:


> quazzle, do you ever plan to sell 100% ready to use bike lights with batteries and controls? I am now in the process of selecting a decent bike light to use during summer, but every light I've found so far is either too dim, too big, too heavy, too expensive, or ridiculously crap and inconvenient mounting mechanism.
> 
> your light seems to be bright, small, light and cheap, but there's no info on availability or sales.


I definitely finish with different light heads, mounts and the LIPO battery pack by May-Jun. As for the mode control button- I'll try but... let's see how it will progress.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

hey quazzle

if i remember right you mentioned sometime in the past that you are thinking/experimention on a 7up light engine? is there any progress?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I can't wait for these to be ready!!! Excellent work quazzle!

I've ridden lately with a 
50w overvolted MR16 Incan setup
15w overvolted MR11 setup
2x SSC P7 setup at 2.8amps each


Last night...I forgot to put the strap on my battery pack for my MR11 setup on the commuter. One of my cells flopped out and rolled away. I was stuck with my trusty single Q5 14500 flashlight strapped to my bars.

Reason I say all that is b/c it's really amazing how overkill we go on lights when we don't need to. When my night vision adjusted...the Q5 was almost enough for a decent trail ride.

I can only imagine that the simplicity, compact size, and performance of the 3x XP-G setup would be the BEEZNEEZ!!


Can't wait!


Is there a pre-order?



Ed


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## eatworksleepdie (Mar 26, 2010)

watching!
I am definitely interested in this. I've been searching for a light on the $cheap$ as I'm a broke biker in need.  

I was originally looking for something that I could make myself, but if you are thinking of selling these, it looks like a great option! 

Can't wait to see the final product and cost! :thumbsup:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

eatworksleepdie said:


> watching!
> I am definitely interested in this. I've been searching for a light on the $cheap$ as I'm a broke biker in need.
> 
> I was originally looking for something that I could make myself, but if you are thinking of selling these, it looks like a great option!
> ...


Not to get too far off topic, but I think you'll have a hard time building or buying anything cheaper than a magicshine, unless you go full getto halogen.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> Not to get too far off topic, but I think you'll have a hard time building or buying anything cheaper than a magicshine, unless you go full getto halogen.


True, but the MagicShine is too tall on a helmet for many, the current sense resistors burn out, the LEDs go green from overheating and they are not waterproof. Oh, and the user interface sucks.

I'd be happy to pay extra to deal with these issues.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> Not to get too far off topic, but I think you'll have a hard time building or buying anything cheaper than a magicshine, unless you go full getto halogen.


True...you'd also have to go "full hooptie" battery for the ghetto halogen to match the runtime of the MS.

If you think about it though...
3x XP-G - Prayerfully $45
Alu slug to mill some fins in - $5
Wire connector and switch - $10
Battery holder LuminousDIY - $8
2x Trustfire protected cells - $9
Some sort of home made mount - $5'ish

You're getting into MagicShine price range...yet it's gonna be only 2/3 the size.



Mark2c said:


> True, but the MagicShine is too tall on a helmet for many, the current sense resistors burn out, the LEDs go green from overheating and they are not waterproof. Oh, and the user interface sucks.
> 
> I'd be happy to pay extra to deal with these issues.


Wow...I didn't know all that crap happens. Mine's been fine so far, but I haven't been able to put too many hours on it yet. Now ya got me scared.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

double post


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> If you think about it though...
> 3x XP-G - Prayerfully $45
> Alu slug to mill some fins in - $5
> Wire connector and switch - $10
> ...


Add another $15 or so for a 2 cell 18650 charger.

I would still rather have a DIY light built to suit my preferences rather than try to save a few bucks.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Wow...I didn't know all that crap happens. Mine's been fine so far, but I haven't been able to put too many hours on it yet. Now ya got me scared.


The charger's been known to burn up and the battery pack isn't waterproof. Carry a backup light. Everyone should.

It is an OK occassional use or 'test the waters and see if you like night riding' or 'the budget is small an I need a lot of light' light. Thousands of them are out there and we will soon see whether they begin to fail in larger numbers. Not letting them run standing still is critical to their well-being.

Quazzle's module appears to be one of the reasonably feasible mods for the halfway skilled and moderately tooled to redo a defunct MJ-808 for someone who owns one. So discussing it here seems OK. I could have bought 3 MJ-808's for the price of my 2 Triple XP-G setup. My lights were a lot of work but I am very glad I went my route. Quazzle's modules would have made it easier and cheaper.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Wow...I didn't know all that crap happens. Mine's been fine so far, but I haven't been able to put too many hours on it yet. Now ya got me scared.


Don't be. It is still way better than any quartz halogen. Just wrap the battery in cling film to waterproof it and have a second light with you. Enjoy.

I intended my comment illustrate that a light without the problems and with a smaller size and better user interface would be worth paying for.

Happy trails....


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

can we get a pre-order list going?
I would be willing to send in a deposit if we have some idea of eta / costs?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

oldassracer said:


> can we get a pre-order list going?
> I would be willing to send in a deposit if we have some idea of eta / costs?


Same here. I'm in for one with XPE's and one with XPG's. But before I send any kind of payment I'd like to see the final specs and dimming (modes and control) that Quazzle settled on.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> can we get a pre-order list going?
> I would be willing to send in a deposit if we have some idea of eta / costs?


guys, just one week to wait.I can't accept any payments before the testing not fully finished.
The parts arrived so I need just one week to test new design and prepare the specs.


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

quazzle
Where are you located?
Looked at the site and seems like you are from Europe somewhere?

shipping costs :madman:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> quazzle
> Where are you located?
> Looked at the site and seems like you are from Europe somewhere?
> shipping costs :madman:


you can check the exact shipping cost at http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order (put something into the basket and hit checkout)

shipping cost to the US is $10.4 by USPS air mail which normally takes 2-3 weeks. I also have an express delivery option but it's expensive.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

> Reason I say all that is b/c it's really amazing how overkill we go on lights when we don't need to. When my night vision adjusted...the Q5 was almost enough for a decent trail ride.


Everyones situation is different.
This is only true for your particular situation.
There are many reasons to have as much light as you can carry.

I ride with 3 x P7 lights and need every bit of that light on the ripping descents in the Mountians here in NC. 
True, I could slow way down and pick my way down the mountains. 
I only need 1/2 of one P7 for the long climbs.

As you get older, your eyes gather less and less light. My eyes are 55 years old.
Every year I need more and more light to be able to see as well. I could read by a match when I was in my 20''s.

I see young guys on the trails that have one LED on their helmet and that seems to be all they need.

A commuter may not need 3-P7's

Someone riding on less technical trails, that they have memorize, may need less light.
etc.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

already ordered a housing to fit in your 3up module quazzle!!


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

Whitedog1 said:


> already ordered a housing to fit in your 3up module quazzle!!


Could you show us this housing?


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

zemike said:


> Could you show us this housing?


Hmmm... think i should keep that secret until quazzle releases his module 

Edit:
Ok, can't keep a secret for so long: Here it is
Noting special, but cheap Looks like there is a 20mm star in it - so the 19mm Module should fit fine! We will see!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Whitedog1 said:


> Hmmm... think i should keep that secret until quazzle releases his module
> 
> Edit:
> Ok, can't keep a secret for so long: Here it is
> Noting special, but cheap Looks like there is a 20mm star in it - so the 19mm Module should fit fine! We will see!


You will need to add some fins to that to keep 3 XP-Gs cool.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Vancbiker said:


> You will need to add some fins to that to keep 3 XP-Gs cool.


Three XP-G's (which run cooler than XP-E's at 1 A) in a 35 mm OD MR11 anodized aluminum light are OK with good attention to thermal path (copper heatsink, AA in this case). Both lights I have level off at about 20 C above ambient with 7 sq inches of radiating surface with no air flow. On the bike, the bodies are about 0-10 C above ambient depending on speed and wind direction and amount of sun warming the black shells (daytime running lights). That should allow you to calculate what you need in fin area. Since they are not integral fins, but add ons, and 1.2 not 1 A if XP-G's or 1 A and hotter XP-E's. I'd guess at 10 square inches total surface area needed as a mninimum ballpark if provided with a good thermal path.


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

Whitedog1 said:


> Ok, can't keep a secret for so long: Here it is
> Noting special, but cheap Looks like there is a 20mm star in it - so the 19mm Module should fit fine! We will see!


Good find!
But I have noticed that the QM has no holes for screws! So you'll have to press fit it or glue it.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

hmmm good point!

Look at the first post, looks like there is some space for screws! :thumbsup: 
Or did I miss something?

I indeed missed something!!
This space is for the wires.....not for screws! 

I don't like glueing it to the heatsink - no chance to disassamble....damn

@quazzle: what's your opinion in mounting your module?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

There are 3 screw holes, screw balls!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)




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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Ok, I recieved the cheapo Helmet light today....
Good news: it worked
Bad news: the back part (wooden appearance) is made out of plastic

I disassambled it and this is definitely not a good housing for quazzles module!
I took some pictures and during reassamlbing i broke the red wire near the pcb...:madman: 
It was a try!! anybody wants a XPE on a 20mm Star? No binning known:eekster: 

Pictures deleted due to complaints


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

chelboed said:


>


I think these holes are for the legs of the optic - to hold it in place!


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Whitedog,
Why are you posting those pictures in this thread?

Just curious.
I am following quazzles 33.2 progress, no need for pictures other than something related to the 33.2.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

sorry - i will delete them!
only wanted to show that this housing is not suitable for quazzles module!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Quick Q: I ordered a piece of one inch Hex bar. Its one inch across from side to side...not corner to corner. Two inches long. I calculate around 7.2-7.5 sq inches of sink. So when I fin it...I should get it up to 9 sq inches of surface area to sink...will it be enough?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

9 sq inches enough for quazzle's module? Yes, if the thermal path is good: based on:

1. El34's P7 in the older style Marwi housing put about 1 watt of heat per square inch with aluminum heat sink and Arctic Alumina. These run fine in numerous examples on associate's bikes. (Information shared with me that I have taken the liberty to share here, saving Doug the trouble.  )

2. Two different heat sink designs in his newer style bullet shaped lights are also about 7 sq in and with a Bflex and three XP-G's at 1 A, they also are fine and max out at 20 C above ambient. 

3. The MJ-808 is about 1 square inch per watt with a poor thermal path. Leaving in on in dead air burns it up, resistors and in some cases, LED by the sounds of things. 

So 9 sq in should allow that little extra for XP-E's that run warmer or the higher 1.2 A for the XP-Gs and a boost (rather than buck) driver. BUT it requires a good thermal path. Your solid chunk of aluminum is about as good as it gets use a thermal compund or glue and it should work like a charm. Fortunately heat WANTS to move to cooler, it's like water running downhill. Make sure you don't dam it up (Air is an dam or insulator) and you'll be fine.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Getting the 1100 lumens requires keeping the light from geting hot.

This comment is made for any reader designing a light. Thinking about the thermal aspects is a bit late after making the shape and sizing the body. Form follows function. I have made this mistake but was lucky because I used a successful light as a basis. Heat management should be part of the early design process. Lesson learned. 

Now to the case at hand: a flat bottomed mount for the quazzle's module. I faced an similar situation of getting a flat bottom to a hole when I thought I'd lap the bottom inside of a pipe cap. No way within the limits of tools and budget. So I flipped it and used the bottom side instead. 

That approach doesn't work here. Thermal paste is best as a very thin layer it is not meant to fill gaps and voids of a non-flat bottom. If the local machine shop will finish a flat bottomed hole for not too much money, I think you'll be much happier going that route. An accurate machine bore will be WAY flatter than a pressed pipe cap, so you'd be golden, as many have used inside pipe cap bottoms as they come with no major issues.

So how thick should the bottom be to be a good thermal path to the body? Troutie could wade in on this with his experience, but here is what I extracted here and in CPF:

In this situation, you will have three power LEDs and a boost driver to keep cool. The LED's are closer to the sides than if they were centered so the thermal path to the air is shorter. A good thing. The rule of thumb kicking around in flashlights is that the thickness of the heatsink in back of the star in order to not restrict the thermal flow relative to making a heavier light than needed, is 1/4 to 1/2 the radius for a single central LED, if aluminum. (Copper can be 1/2 to 2/3 of that) A bit thicker for multiple LEDs and a little thinner if they are closer to the edge. So those two aspects seem to cancel in this application and the rule of 1/4 to 1/2 of the radius applies. Thicker gives diminishing results fast.

If you have a thicker path to the walls (and it looks like you will), you gain a slightly better thermal path but mostly just have mass there that would have be better as air interface in a weight versus cooling area tradeoff view. Extra internal aluminum will slow warming when there is little or no air movement cooling the light. It will act as a true thermal mass heat sink and not just a heat conduit to air. That is a good thing as a consolation prize and something Troutie says he allows for in his lights. It looks like you have almost the radius in thickness by the time the hole is flat bottomed so no issue of being too thin for a good thermal path to the air interface. As a contiguous block of metal, there will be no interfaces other than the circuit board/heat sink-body that might be an issue adding resistance (dams) to the thermal path. 

Another aspect of cooling is to move the heat over the whole surface easily to get that surface to work at its best. Based on two different designs, I concluded that it doesn't take thick aluminum to move the heat well along the shell for an inch each way. No more than 1/8" and half that for most of my lights' bodies. Your light looks like it will have no shortage there either. 

So if you have about square inch or more of air-body interface per watt of heat, you get a flat mount area, you have the right amount of thermal paste, then you should be good.

If you have less area that that and aluminum handlebars, consider making an aluminum mount to transfer heat to the bike.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## mtb_robs-x (Dec 13, 2009)

great post ! could not agree more.

couple of thoughts / improvements.

P7 + reflectors are spotty, most of the time I like smooth spread.
LEDs > most aim at getting blue light,
actually good old halogen has much better color rendering,
and smooth light spread, as such, much better with depth perception.

3 P7 = 3x 500 ( 550) lumen ,
but the spotty light makes the eyes work harder

once you have 2000+ lumen, and better color CRI ( and lower color temp),
adding yellow shooting glasses, improve things.
they do absorb 15-20% light, even clear ones 5-9%,
but light is logarithmic , as such need much more light.
funny things,.... they yellow glasses filter blue light mostly, go figure.

best combo I have,
handle bar:
1x 35W halogen, running at 52W = 1700 lumen
1x LED 300 lumen , MR16
+ handlebar switch

helmet:
1x 600 lumen MC-E

+ yellow glasses
+ big 14.8V 8AH battery bottle
+ 14.8V 5.2AH backpack

in the works:
handlebar
- tripple p4 / MCE
- dual MC-E
- single / dual halogen
- 35W HID
- 6x P4 24W
- single MR16 LED , , chrome classic road.
- military version

helmet
- dual cree
- old 20W halogen

Battery:
loads of it.

of course EL34, has a lots of stuff to get you going.



El34 said:


> Everyones situation is different.
> This is only true for your particular situation.
> There are many reasons to have as much light as you can carry.
> 
> ...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Good stuff, man!! Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hex Bar looks cool and you will heve plenty of material for some nice fins also .

Someone on here named the heatsink part of the housing the firewall .
I try and have a minimum of 4 mm thick in my firewalls to get the heat out to the case as quick as possible .

You can with care grind a 20 mm drill bit flat on the bottom and get a useable flat bottomed hole the part that doesnot cut in the centre is taken care of by the hole for the cable ..

Another thing about Hex bar is it will fit nicely in a 3 jaw chuck in the lathe so anyone with a lathe can bore the perfect flat bottomed hole .


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi guys, I was pretty busy so ... there's the latest news from my lab.










I have finished with single-mode versions of XP-G engines. The new XP-G triplet is now taking advantage of a ultra-low quiescent current LDO which extends the allowable voltage range to 4.8-9.6V. The internal LDO also should drive a microcontroller which I will install in next 1-2 weeks (I need to finish the program). The microcontroller will implement the mode-change logic.

A signle-die engine will be a single-mode because I was trying to minimize its size. It's only 14mm in diameter and I'm going to use it for a sub-compact helmet light.

In new engines I'll be using gold plated pins for connections. They're much more easy to solder than small pads on a MCPCB


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Nice work! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Nice looking boards!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Hi, very nice job, how cost that circuit??

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

"It's only 14mm in diameter and I'm going to use it for a sub-compact helmet light."

What optic lens are you planning to use for the 14mm dri-led?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

msxtr said:


> Hi, very nice job, how cost that circuit??
> msxtr


I do total re-pricing now. The price estimate will be calculated based on actual expenses (components cost, delivery cost, VAT, boards production cost) + USD 7-10 for assembly/testing job. I try to optimize the components cost placing bulk orders but as long as I can't estimate the sales now I'd limit it on 100-500pcs cap


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm still going to use it with carclo 20mm collimators, but there're 10mm lenses on market. You can also consider using a custom reflector for it. Even for a 20mm collimator it makes a sense because you can afford more space for radiator fins and provide a more compact head design. So which optics to use - it's totaly up to your choice.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

quazzle said:


> I do total re-pricing now. The price estimate will be calculated based on actual expenses (components cost, delivery cost, VAT, boards production cost) + USD 7-10 for assembly/testing job. I try to optimize the components cost placing bulk orders but as long as I can't estimate the sales now I'd limit it on 100-500pcs cap


Will there be an XPE R3 option on the triple board As I am just a lot disapointed in the beam from the carclo triple and the XPG leds .

Please could you recap the final spec and control methods in non Electrical Engineer speak :thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Got my hex bar...can you verify my calc's?
> 
> Each flat section is 14mm x 50mm (x6 sides) should equal 4200mm sq = 6.51in sq.
> 
> ...


6 surfaces x 5 mm x 40 mm x 3 sides = 3600 mm sq = 5.58 sq in + 6.51 = 12.09 sq in.

I'd say you are great with three sides finned as that would be about 1.2 sq in per watt of heat, over 20% more than my lights which work great, and that would look great, too.

BTW: Anodized aluminum supposedly sheds heat to the air better than untreated and way better than painted aluminum in case you are considering it. You can clear anodize if you like silver.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

I dug up that factoid here somewhere. 

Black is supposedly best from a radiative heat point of view, but if you run on flash in the day the sun warms that housing, too. Anodizing reduces heat transfer at interfaces so I took my housing to the aluminum inside to interface with the heatsink. Probably was overkill. But it works well, and it beats having to take it apart and do it because it got too hot.

Your light concept is a cool looking housing and a nice home for quazzle's triple play. I'd be excited, too.

The optics are 20 mm, and small XP-G optics aren't narrow, a narrow medium at best. My guess? Close to the MJ-808 maybe a bit less floody. Go back in the thread. I thought they discussed the optics.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Quazzle, will it be possible to wire two of the triple boards together powered from the one 7.2 Li-Po battery, sharing a common power jack and mode switch? If so, wired in series or parallel?

Am also interested to know if they will be available as XP-E or only XP-G?

How do you order stuff from your website?

Cheers

emu


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

chelboed said:


> . Sorta give it a "theme".
> 
> Triple LED's
> Triple Screws
> Three sides finned


You could call it "Triple to the power of 3"


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

That is a nice looking idea for a case .Chelboed

Theres a but coming here .

the fin design is wrong for passive cooling it will not be much good when stopped in stil air
nowhere for the convection currents to freely disipate .

be a lot better to have vertical fins at the rear . you would get a much lighter case with possibly more surface area .

or go right through with your 3 sets of fins 

Yes the carclo triple with XPGs will be quite floody Which is why I requested an XPE option .


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Quazzle, will it be possible to wire two of the triple boards together powered from the one 7.2 Li-Po battery, sharing a common power jack and mode switch? If so, wired in series or parallel?
> 
> Am also interested to know if they will be available as XP-E or only XP-G?
> 
> ...


I'll definitely add XP-E option as well. And may be a mixed board too, say 1XP-E and 2XP-G. The stuff is not available at my webshop now as I didn't finish with the datasheets yet. Please give me 2-3 days to complete.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

quazzle said:


> I'll definitely add XP-E option as well. And may be a mixed board too, say 1XP-E and 2XP-G. The stuff is not available at my webshop now as I didn't finish with the datasheets yet. Please give me 2-3 days to complete.


Good stuff Quazzle
You must know by now we are an impatient bunch when we see something that looks good.:thumbsup:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> I'll definitely add XP-E option as well. *And may be a mixed board too, say 1XP-E and 2XP-G. *The stuff is not available at my webshop now as I didn't finish with the datasheets yet. Please give me 2-3 days to complete.


I would think a 2XP-E and 1XP-G might be better for someone who wants a more narrow beam pattern but I'll defer to the opinion of others on this as I've not seen what a triple XP-E beam pattern looks like ( in comparison ). One thing I do know ....a 20mm XP-G triple doesn't give me the throw I want unless it is run at full output.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Another thought...
> QUOTE]
> 
> I'll suggest a chamfer or round over of the back corners of the fins to help in case of OTB.
> ...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Gland: ...I'd like the keep the physical size a bit smaller than that one.


Do a google in the CPF forum and at:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=86

Someone was looking for one in the last 3-4 months, too and thread should come up.


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

chelboed,

With 3 slots on 3 sides you'll have close to 15 sq inches of surface area.:thumbsup:










another view
https://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae232/phburns/hexagon/hex2.jpg
bigger drawing
https://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae232/phburns/hexagon/hexbar.jpg


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> This one bothers me...it looks great, but will it move enough heat not to fry the unit? And could you possibly answer my flat-bottom hole above? Thx


Sorry for the late reply, I was away for the last week. I'll measure the surface area tomorrow but I'm confident there is plenty of surface area. I only run full power when moving anyway.

Regarding the flat bottom hole, I used a lathe and boring bar to machine the pocket. I'll post pics soon. I get the housing back from anodizing tomorrow.

The other option is to buy a 20mm end mill and use a drill press.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> Sorry for the late reply, I was away for the last week. I'll measure the surface area tomorrow but I'm confident there is plenty of surface area. I only run full power when moving anyway.
> 
> Regarding the flat bottom hole, I used a lathe and boring bar to machine the pocket. I'll post pics soon. I get the housing back from anodizing tomorrow.
> 
> The other option is to buy a 20mm end mill and use a drill press.


all the endmills in my collection have a slightly concave tip which leaves a convex bottom to the hole .


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> all the endmills in my collection have a slightly concave tip which leaves a convex bottom to the hole .


Good point! I forgot about that.
At least it would give a better result than trying to do it by hand with a dremel.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, the hole location on my picture could be problematic. I modeled it to double check the surface area with 9 fins, a hole location on the side might be easier to locate the wire to the board.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I just finished reading through the whole thread to find the answer, but didn't find it!

I want to control 2 modules with one wired mode switch/button/pushbutton/momentary switch......

Do I have to use a switch in the power source cable which disconnects the power for a short time? This would not be good because it would be dark for a short time during riding!

Do i have to us a pushbutton/momentary action switch (did not know the right word.. a switch which only makes a short contact when pressing and is generally not contacted - only during clicking/pressing)?
With such a switch it wouldn't get dark and it would be easy to switch between modes(click) or turn on/off by a press!?

Can i wire the 2 modules to one of these momentary switches(if a momentary sw. can be used)?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I asked similar questions in post 197.

Looking at Quazzle's site there is a schematic at the bottom of the front page, ok the front page once you enter the intro page, and it shows a mode button wired between a "mode" pad and -ve in. from memory he has said somewhere that it will be momentary action controlled. Sorry, can't find it at the moment. Not sure what the LDO out pad is for though?

I also want to power 2 modules from the one battery and would like to only use the one mode switch so that the two boards mimic each other. Quazzle didn't answer this when he responded to post #197 in comment # 201

Hope this answers some of your queries.

Quazzle, what about two boards sharing the single mode button?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Ok, just read his site again*

The following is copied from there

_Wireless Mode Control
The newest L33.2 triple XP-G engine will be also available in a "MC" version with an integrated MCU for full control over the LEDs' output and operation. Our innovative "wireless control" technology eliminates a need of any additional wires for a mode-select switch. Digital control signal is mixed to the power cord and distributed to all lights, which share the same supply. New protocol makes possible addressing all lights together or one particular, setting arbitrary brightness levels or activating different strobe/alarm patterns. The control signal can be also generated by a power supply to limit the light brightness when the batteries are exhausted.

As an option L33.2 also provides a port for a more classic wired mode-switch. A reduced brightness mode can be toggled with no button by a short power cutoff. New boost regulator circuit extends the allowable voltage range up to 9.5V and demonstrates exceptionally high efficiency at 1.6MHz - 95%. We anticipate it to be released in mid-Apr, 2010._

Not sure I like the sound of momentarily turning the lights off to change modes, assuming I have read that correctly, although it does sound like one switch will control multiple boards


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I read his hp text too but it has some space for interpretations....

What is a wired mode switch? a switch to change modes ok - but what switch?

I also don'd understand this:
_A reduced brightness mode can be toggled with no button by a short power cutoff_


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Quazzle, what about two boards sharing the single mode button?


sorry if I missed your question, There are two possible ways how you can share one button between two boards.

1) The first one is which I prefer. Each board can be controlled by a digital signal mixed to the power line. This is the technique which I call "wireless control" meaning that there's no extra wiring needed for the button. The button will use a simple mc-based circuit and should be connected to the power supply in parallel.

2) Technically you can use one wired button if only both boards are connected to the supply in parallel (share the same GND level). This way you can short both BTN ports to the GND by a single button. Let me check how it works in practice.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Thx quazzle!

I think option 2 is for most useres here the preferred one (at the moment)
is this mode switch a on/off or a momenary mode version?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Yes, thanks.

I also prefer the sound of option 2.

The next question, which is probably more of a general one, if two boards are wired in parrallel from the one battery, say a 7.2v battery, do both boards see 7.2 v or only 3.6?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

For this to work for the maximum no of customers I guess the number of electrical engineer types will be outnumbered by complete diy tinkerers who know not much EE speak .

please Quazzle lay out the instructions so an idiot can do it ( I class myself as an EE idiot  )



> The button will use a simple mc-based circuit


  what is one of those


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

emu26 said:


> The next question, which is probably more of a general one, if two boards are wired in parrallel from the one battery, say a 7.2v battery, do both boards see 7.2 v or only 3.6?


in parallel connection both see 7.2v, EE basics


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> what is one of those


ok, sure. I'll try to exmpain. I meant a board which uses a microcontroller to send digital comands rather than simply on/off curcuit.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

*No quiescent mode for a boost topology driver*

May this is an important issue but it seems I have completely missed this from the very begining.

The triple play which is based on a boost topology may not have a quiescent mode. In other words it cannot be totaly switched off. The mode control logic may offer different brightness levels but it can't be totally switched off.

Any comments?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> ok, sure. I'll try to exmpain. I meant a board which uses a microcontroller to send digital comands rather than simply on/off curcuit.


I think this is still beyond what most people here will understand. Anything that uses a board will need an enclosure and that enclosure will need to be mounted somewhere. Apparently your led modules will be pre-programed to respond to certain digital signals in order to change modes. You will still need a user interface ( a button ) that will activate the microcontroller to do it's thing. Sounds a little complicated to me.

Option #2 sounds a little more non-EE-user friendly. If I understand correctly, if you are using two of your modules in parallel: You connect the ground off of the ( parallel ) modules through the switch and then to the battery. The switch would be a standard on/off/momentary switch. You would change modes using the momentary press function of the switch ( just like with most mult-mode torches ) is this correct? If so this is not so bad and requires only simple average DIY electronic knowledge. The only down side I see is that you would need to know in advance just how you are going to mount the switch/lights to know how much wire is needed.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> May this is an important issue but it seems I have completely missed this from the very begining.
> 
> The triple play which is based on a boost topology may not have a quiescent mode. In other words it cannot be totaly switched off. The mode control logic may offer different brightness levels but it can't be totally switched off.
> 
> Any comments?


Not perfect but not a huge problem. A simple inline switch either between the housing and the battery or built into the housing if one has room, will cut the power completely.

So it would either be two switches, one on off to control power to the light and one momentary to control dimming. Or simply unplug the light to turn off completely and just have a momentary to do the dimming.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Not perfect but not a huge problem. A simple inline switch either between the housing and the battery or built into the housing if one has room, will cut the power completely.
> 
> So it would either be two switches, one on off to control power to the light and one momentary to control dimming. Or simply unplug the light to turn off completely and just have a momentary to do the dimming.


I am with you here emu!!:thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## thmaxxer (Oct 26, 2008)

> As efficient as this light is...I'll only be using it on High mode anyhoo. No reason for less. (hint, hint, Quazzle...I'll even take an early proto, hahaha)
> 
> As far as being "on" all the time...just use a trail tech connector between the light and power source. That's pretty-much how they're all made, right?


+1 to what he said.

Keep it simple. On - Off is all I need.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Ok, so now I know some others here are having trouble with the EE stuff, and I think I'm getting on top of what's being said in the most recent posts. Someone was asking about running two boards in parallel, but I still want to know if I can run two in series off a 14.8v battery.
Cheers,
b.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> ...Someone was asking about running two boards in parallel, but I still want to know if I can run two in series off a 14.8v battery.


boosts are not stable in series connection so if shortly - no, you can't,
someone asked about buck version for higher voltages, yes, it's technically possible within the same dimensions. But I'd like to concentrate on the fullest solution based on the current engines (bodies, supply, charger). I'll return to buck triple play later, ok?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Carclo Triple Testing Out*

OK for you all waiting with empty housings for Quazzles masterpiece to be finished here is a bit of testing the different combinations of XPG-XPE and the carclo triple 20 mm optic 
narrowest.

the target is 6 feet from the camera and lights the markings ar 6 inch increments the board is 4 feet wide.

I will get the same shots in the woods tonight

from the top

1 XPE and 2 XPG
2 XPE and 1 XPG
3 XPG
3 XPE


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> OK for you all waiting with empty housings for Quazzles masterpiece to be finished here is a bit of testing the different combinations of XPG-XPE and the carclo triple 20 mm optic
> narrowest.
> 
> the target is 6 feet from the camera and lights the markings ar 6 inch increments the board is 4 feet wide.
> ...


Nice work.

Looking at your pictures, it reinforces what I thought after posting the beamshots of similar optics over in this thread.

LED and Optics for Lightweight Helmet Light

But seeing someone else's pictures really drives it home. Your pictures all look so similar and I suspect that's not really the case.

My conclusion was that the beamshots just don't do a good job of really conveying the differences between the various options all that well. I'm wondering if you feel the same way? I think it can be a little hard for the person who's seen the images both in real life and the pictures. Because when you look at the pictures, you can't ignore the impressions you saw of the actual test.

I'm also wondering if you've compared the 20mm triple to 35mm triples yourself. I'd be interested in your thoughts on that comparison.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> from the top
> 
> 1 XPE and 2 XPG
> 2 XPG and 1 XPE


Typo, or did you just turn it upside down? 

JZ


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Jim Z in VT said:


> Typo, or did you just turn it upside down?
> 
> JZ


Thanks jim sorted it

MM yes I know what you mean I am not a great lover of wall shots but they do give an idea of the hotspot shape I underexposed them to get the hotspot more defined .

some shots in the woods will give a better idea I hope .
My favourites are the XPE and the 2 XPE 1 XPG 
comparing the 2 triples then I would put the XPG as a bar light and the XPE as the helmet light

I dont think mixing the leds is worth the bother imho


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> I dont think mixing the leds is worth the bother imho


I agree


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I think the P7's with the 35mm reflector I use in the Marwi's is an excellent beam shape for on the trail.
I use 3 of them. Two on the bars, one on the helmet.
Best lights I have ever used or seen on the trail, including all the expensive high end commercial lights.

Looking forward to Quazzles 33.2 so I can experiment with that in the Marwi's.

Still have several hundred Marwi halogen lights that need good homes.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Thanks Trout for posting the beam shots. I don't think there was ever a side by side comparison of the 3-up XPE vs XPG with the carclo optics, at least I wasn't able to find it.

Here the finished housing, without electronics. The housing has approx 8.3 in^2 of surface, and should cool sufficiently.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

So here's my planned light-head for your critical analysis. I am going to turn it out of 35mm alloy bar stock on a Sherline lathe. I have never bothered to try to figure out 3d CAD, so I just drew a cross section... mainly so I know what dimensions I'm cutting to. In order to maximize ease of construction and minimize the amount of metal in the design I have forgone any threading. The front cover is 30mm diameter and has a 1mm sapphire watch crystal pressed into a nylon seal, same as most watch glasses are fitted. Then there is a matching nylon seal stretched onto the light body, and the front cover (or bezel in watch speak) is a friction fit onto that, and the alloy light body to give maximum heat transfer. This set-up will also make it water-tight.
The seating for the board will be faced flat on the lathe, and then tracks for the wire milled into it, with the wires then going through the hole drilled right through the light body and exiting through a rubber grommet at the back, which will be compressed by a press fit alloy plug. Mounting is yet to be entirely sorted, but won't affect the basic design.
I am thinking of running two of these side by side on my helmet, and since 80% of my riding is done at night anyway, the mounting will be permanent on a dedicated helmet. I haven't figured out the switching or power supply to my satisfaction yet.
Ideally I would use two packs of L-ion cells in one convenient holder, but I really don't want to have to pull all the cells out to charge individually. I have read conflicting comments about the safety of charging cells in packs. Run-time of 2 or 2/12 hours on full power would be quite adequate. Any recommendations on packs and chargers would be welcomed. I'm in New Zealand, and shipping from some suppliers can be a big pain.

Any comments on the design?

Thanks,
b.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bshallard said:


> So here's my planned light-head for your critical analysis.
> 
> ......
> 
> ...


I'm not a big fan of using mulitple parts with pressfits. Press fits are an PITA to machine and get right so if I can avoid them I will. It is even more important on a housing that needs to move heat, because the small amount of air trapt in the press-fit will limit the amount of heat transfer between the parts.

Here is a cross section of the housing I posted above. I used a single piece design and retained the lens using a square oring pressed into an undercut. This resulted in a single piece housing/heatsink, created a fairly watertight seal and maintained the ability to easily access to the optics/leds/circuit if needed.

The wire exits the housing offset so I didn't need to machine a slot, which would reduce the surface area available for heat transfer to the housing. I used a nylon bolt with a hole drilled through the center to retain the wire, which will have a collar bonded to the end. The collar will be compressed into the pocket formed between the end of the nylon bolt and housing. This should keep it fairly water tight and act as a strain relief.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Dadgum, man...that looks really nice. I'm impressed. I hope mine looks half that good when it's all said and done. (still at the machine shop sitting on a shelf...awaiting a flat-bottom hole)


Thanks! 
I have to admit it's pretty nice to having a machine shop at my disposal.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> May this is an important issue but it seems I have completely missed this from the very begining.
> 
> The triple play which is based on a boost topology may not have a quiescent mode. In other words it cannot be totaly switched off. The mode control logic may offer different brightness levels but it can't be totally switched off.
> 
> Any comments?


Having an off mode would be ideal, but I don't think it's a show stopper. Another feature to add to the list for the next version.

Any update on progress?


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

One of the disadvantages of putting electronics on the MCPCB with the LEDs is that you typically have to use more PCB layers to be able to route all the signals on the board. The reason that's a disadvantage is because you have to add a non-conductive laminate layer between each signal layer. That increases the thermal resistance of the MCPCB. Simple MCPCBs that just have LEDs only have a single non-conductive laminate layer between the signals traces on the surface and the base metal core. I'm not saying this is wrong, it's just one of the tradeoffs of the design choice of putting components on the MCPCB with the LEDs. All design choices result in trade offs. 

Quazzle, how many layers did you have to use on this board? Just trying to get a better feel of the thermal characteristics of the module?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

chelboed said:


> but I had a crazy idea:


What's this?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Looks like a cut-off wheel from a dremel.


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

odtexas said:


> Looks like a cut-off wheel from a dremel.


Which is for wood?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Holy Crap, I wish I had a lathe and a mill!!!
> 
> To be continued...


Looks like you have all the parts for a makeshift mill. Just get some endmills to put in your drill press. Be carefully not to work the endmills too hard, a drill press isn't designed to take side loads on the drill chuck. The chuck may drop out if you're not careful.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for with the 2mm end mill...it worries me b/c it's an el'cheapo HFreight press that my parents bought me for Xmas. Good tight vice that I just got for it, but cheap press. It gets the job done...but it's a wobbly freakin mess when you really pay attn. to it. I can surely appreciate precision equipment...b/c I def. don't have any. I was gonna try the 19mm hole saw to build the face cap, but ended up free-handing the 19mm with a dremel b/c a 19mm holesaw became 21. Partially b/c the press...partially b/c of the hole saw being wobbly too.


whynot get a bit fancy and file a little hood on it like this one


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Nahhh...it's for metal. It is for a dremel.


Could you say me the part number? I can't see it here: Cutting - Aluminium


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


>


excellent done! 
are you going to mill the fins now?
by the way, what if I send you a single-mode board for testing?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

chelboed said:


> The thing is far from being rigid and stable and was designed for Dremel RPM's...not drill press RPM's, so go very slow.


Thanks.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Well...I went a bit "overboard" I think with the retaining system... I'm still diggin the Triad / Trinity theme here. ... (DANG THIS IS GONNA BE SMALL!!) .... I already checked it with my lens. Should be perfect! QUOTE]
> 
> Very nicely done. :thumbsup: Congrats on nabbing a test module!! :thumbsup:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...very cool.
> 
> Well...I went a bit "overboard" I think with the retaining system. I could have just silly'cone'd it in there...but I made a face cap tonight and I did it "freehand". I was gonna drill and tap all six corners, but I'm still diggin the Triad / Trinity theme here.
> 
> I went ahead and took the lip down to make the hole the proper depth. (DANG THIS IS GONNA BE SMALL!!) The face cap has a 19mm hole and the body has a 20mm hole. I already checked it with my lens. Should be perfect!


Nice work! Especially with no machine tools.:thumbsup:

I think the retaining is perfect. Sure you won't need a huge amount of force to retain the plate, but you want it to be easily removed for building/servicing. Silicone is messy and looks like sh!t, plus it would be a PITA if you wanted to remove the lens to access anything inside. You went the right direction! What do you have planned for wire exit, strain relief?

I'll bet you could cut off almost half of the length and still have plenty of surface area to cool. It would make it much more compact and lighter.

Congrats on the snagging the sample.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: I'm sooo jealous!!!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

I can offer a small and cheap part that fits the bill nicely. Get an old discarded cell phone charger. Take apart the end that plugs into the wall. You will then have a cable with molded rubber strain relief already on it. Then simply feed the cable through a hole out the back or side just slightly bigger than the cable and pull it tight. The rubber molded strain relied will stick out the back some but wont pull out if the hole is properly sized. Just a tiny dab of epoxy to stick it in place. Small, free and look as professional as a Motorola cell phone charger in my instance.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

If you are not in a rush drop me your address and i will pop a couple of these in the post


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> I'm not a big fan of using mulitple parts with pressfits. Press fits are an PITA to machine and get right so if I can avoid them I will. It is even more important on a housing that needs to move heat, because the small amount of air trapt in the press-fit will limit the amount of heat transfer between the parts.
> 
> Here is a cross section of the housing I posted above. I used a single piece design and retained the lens using a square oring pressed into an undercut. This resulted in a single piece housing/heatsink, created a fairly watertight seal and maintained the ability to easily access to the optics/leds/circuit if needed.
> 
> The wire exits the housing offset so I didn't need to machine a slot, which would reduce the surface area available for heat transfer to the housing. I used a nylon bolt with a hole drilled through the center to retain the wire, which will have a collar bonded to the end. The collar will be compressed into the pocket formed between the end of the nylon bolt and housing. This should keep it fairly water tight and act as a strain relief.


Hey thanks for your thoughts.
I'm not too concerned about getting the press fit machining right. Most every time I fire up the lathe for work I'm machining to press fit tolerance, so that is pretty easy.
I kicked around a few ideas for construction techniques, and one of my goals was lightest weight possible with maximum surface area. My current night lightning light uses the same type of lateral heat sink, but I've read some opinions that suggest longitudinal grooves like yours are more efficient. Any thoughts on that? I went for a longer build than yours just for pure aesthetics, which also explains the taper. I now think I may not do the hollow core, and rather just run the wires straight out the side of the case.

Chelboed..... Looking good there dude.

b.


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## thmaxxer (Oct 26, 2008)

Quazzle, are you going to make a "ready to ride" version? Meaning slap it on the bars, charge and go?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bshallard said:


> My current night lightning light uses the same type of lateral heat sink, but I've read some opinions that suggest longitudinal grooves like yours are more efficient. Any thoughts on that?


Longitudinal fins will be more efficient while in motion. The air flow across lateral fins is in the same direction as the fins. This gives you more efficient heat transfer because of the velocity and volume of air passing over them is maximized.

Lateral fins will be perpendicular to the air flow. Air flowing over the fins will not have nearly the same velocity or volume resulting in a less efficient removal of heat.

Standing still both will be relatively equivalent.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

While I love the smallness and cool designing going on here and I will be doing similar when I get some aluminium Hex bar ( thanks Chelboed for the idea I hope you dont mind be borrowing it )

I cant help but think they are going to get pretty warm pretty fast so it will be a good test for Quazzles circuit and heat management when pushed to max output .
especially for you guys in warmer climes .

looking forward to hearing how these little lights fare ,

and as promised some beam shots ot the differing combos on the triples .

2 XPG - 1 XPE









2 XPE - 1 XPG








3 XPG








3 XPE









It will be these last 2 that are of most interest on this thread I think

slideshow


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

thanks for the pics troutie!!
seems like a combo of one xpg module for flood with one xpe module for throw is perfect!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> While I love the smallness and cool designing going on here and I will be doing similar when I get some aluminium Hex bar ( thanks Chelboed for the idea I hope you dont mind be borrowing it )
> 
> I cant help but think they are going to get pretty warm pretty fast so it will be a good test for Quazzles circuit and heat management when pushed to max output .
> especially for you guys in warmer climes .
> ...


My experience with a really small light confirms your thoughts. My microlight

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=574292

will reach 60-65 C in still room temp air. Too hot to touch for more than a split second! Riding a moderate pace in 10-12C temps keeps it down to comfortably warm temps ( never got out the thermometer to check it on a ride). It has a large amount of finning relative to it's body size. I switch to low when going slow or stopped and all is well this past winter. Temp sensitive auto dimming on a small, high output light will be quite helpful.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

*All New Datasheets (L30, L31, L33)*

Guys, I just finished with testing/writing the specs.
Please see the drafts (your corrections, questions are much appriciated).

http://lux-rc.com/temp/L3034PCB-EN-120416.pdf
http://lux-rc.com/temp/L312PCB-EN-120416.pdf
http://lux-rc.com/temp/L332PCB-EN-120416.pdf

(updated 16 Apr!)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> There's a dude over at CPF that can do 24kt gold


forget about it  , a dark anodized surface is optimal for better thermal dissipation.



chelboed said:


> I'd even thought of drilling the wire-hole just big enough for the cable to fit through snugly...and dab a little silicone on it. I don't wanna commit to silicone just yet though.


check the specs I have updated here today to make sure that the hole is lined up to the board cord slot.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Great news quazzle!!
and nice sheets 

In de datasheet of the L33.2 Module you state in Note 1 that the mode functionality is discribed later in the documen - but where? I couldn't find it!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

thmaxxer said:


> Quazzle, are you going to make a "ready to ride" version? Meaning slap it on the bars, charge and go?


yep, I'm going to upgrade this:









its name is L30 and this is how it looks on my bar









and helmet (the same mount)









of course for L33 I'll need a more massive and thermally improved housing.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Great news quazzle!!
> and nice sheets
> In de datasheet of the L33.2 Module you state in Note 1 that the mode functionality is discribed later in the documen - but where? I couldn't wind it!


thanks, please give me 1-2 weeks to stabilize the firmware. All I can say now - it works as expected.


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## Doobled (Apr 9, 2010)

Hi Guys,
New member, first time poster etc...
Hoping to build my first light for this years mountain mayhem after being shown the light at last years event.
Using quazzle's L33.2 or similar would be a good starting point for me, in a four4th style setup.
From the data sheet it looks as though using a higher voltage is more efficient. 
But what is the quiescent current? Is this the consumption in 'sleep' mode?
EE is not my strongest subject.

doob


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Doobled said:


> Hi Guys,
> New member, first time poster etc...


welcome on board!



Doobled said:


> From the data sheet it looks as though using a higher voltage is more efficient.


correct. In case of a boost (step-up) regulator the higher voltage, the more efficient it is.



Doobled said:


> But what is the quiescent current? Is this the consumption in 'sleep' mode?


exactly. It's applicable only for the L33.2MC version. 
A simple single-mode version is always ON.
Thanks, I'll add a note becase it's not quite clear.


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## Doobled (Apr 9, 2010)

quazzle,
Thanks for the quick response and clarification. 
So this current draw in 'sleep' mode, does this energy dissipate as heat? 
If so does this mean the housing will need to dissipate the rated 'consumed power' when in max and in sleep mode?

Also, the L33.2 will this be instant 'on' and only off when the power is disconnected. 

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to nail down all the terminology.

doob


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Doobled said:


> ...So this current draw in 'sleep' mode, does this energy dissipate as heat?


the current draw at voltages below 7V is about 20-30 microamps. This is a very low drain. A fully charged standard 2500mAh battery will last at this current 100.000 hours! (11 years)

But starting from 7V the LEDs begin giving some light and the current drain is growing drastically as the voltage grows. At 9.7-9.8V the unit turns to a direct drive (LED's full throttle)

So in a nutshell, please don't expect to have a "software" sleep mode at voltages above 7V. To switch it off you'll need to phisically disconnect it from the battery.


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## Doobled (Apr 9, 2010)

quazzle

That seems simple enough.

Thank you.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

quazzle said:


> the current draw at voltages below 7V is about 20-30 microamps. This is a very low drain. A fully charged standard 2500mAh battery will last at this current 100.000 hours! (11 years)
> 
> But starting from 7V the LEDs begin giving some light and the current drain is growing drastically as the voltage grows. At 9.7-9.8V the unit turns to a direct drive (LED's full throttle)
> 
> So in a nutshell, please don't expect to have a "software" sleep mode at voltages above 7V. To switch it off you'll need to phisically disconnect it from the battery.


So, if i understand right:

By using a 2s LiIon Battery on the mode module i cant expect a sleep mode? it would be more a ultralow mode!?

For example by using a wired mode switch i would get: High - mid - low and then off (which is actually a ultralow mode) ?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> Guys, I just finished with testing/writing the specs.
> Please see the drafts (your corrections, questions are much appriciated).
> 
> http://lux-rc.com/temp/L3034PCB-EN-120415.pdf
> ...


I am getting giddy with anticipation!
I looked over the spec sheet for the 33.2, here are my comments:

I'd like to see more description on how to use the Mode Control function, and please write it for the non-EE.
Also provide more info on dimming levels for button control.
The max current output ratings look fine, but some folks might want to run a bit lower (750mA) to save run time. There is diminishing returns on light output as you approach the max current of the leds.
The graphs for electrical characheristics are very usefull, however the oscilloscope images might be too much information.
I love the board diagrams with dimensions, this will be very helpfull when designing housings.
A few minor typos

How are the current levels set? Is it hardware or software based? And is there anyway to hack it?

Quazzle, could you also comment on MtbMacgyver's post:


MtbMacgyver said:


> One of the disadvantages of putting electronics on the MCPCB with the LEDs is that you typically have to use more PCB layers to be able to route all the signals on the board. The reason that's a disadvantage is because you have to add a non-conductive laminate layer between each signal layer. That increases the thermal resistance of the MCPCB. Simple MCPCBs that just have LEDs only have a single non-conductive laminate layer between the signals traces on the surface and the base metal core. I'm not saying this is wrong, it's just one of the tradeoffs of the design choice of putting components on the MCPCB with the LEDs. All design choices result in trade offs.
> 
> Quazzle, how many layers did you have to use on this board? Just trying to get a better feel of the thermal characteristics of the module?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Quazzle: Saw no issue with the data sheets, other than the sleep mode current applying to one version. Obvious once stated. You are going to open the DIY light option up to many. :thumbsup: 

Vancbiker: your thermal experience with your wonderful helmet light is a nice near minimum cooling/heat sink situation. An excellent contribution. 

Here is another thermal experience for those figuring out how small to go FWIW. Example: MR11 Marwi Bullet shaped housing with about 7 square inches of radiative surface. Three XP-G's at 0.5 A (5 watts consumed, about 4 watts of heat), 28 C ambient, stopped to aid a motorist for 10 minutes, with the sun shining (3:30 PM EDST, sunburn capable) on the 7 square inch (less than 1.5 square inches per watt consumed) black anodized housing. At resuming ride, it was only slightly warm, or tepid, at most, 10 C above ambient. It had been running for about 20 minutes before the stop at an average speed of 16 mph. Before the sopt, it felt the same, maybe a little warmer than the bike frame, so within a few degrees of ambient while riding. It does warm at 1 A to about body temp 38 C riding at 25 C with the sun on it (previous ride when I forgot to lower the setting), but maxes out 20C above ambient when stopped long enough (11 watts consumption). Should be no heat issue with a light of similar area and excellent thermal path, when night riding at >38 C ambient at 1 A. No sun heating the black housing, then. 

Quazzle's L33.2 is another 2 watts at max power, so a 7 square inch radiative surface housing should be enough except as a daytime running light at full power at noon in Death Valley at the height of summer, when stopped for more than a few minutes, if shaded, IMHO. Though is is good to over engineer a one-off DIY when your backup is poor.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> I cant help but think they are going to get pretty warm pretty fast so it will be a good test for Quazzles circuit and heat management when pushed to max output .
> especially for you guys in warmer climes .
> 
> looking forward to hearing how these little lights fare.





Vancbiker said:


> My experience with a really small light confirms your thoughts. My microlight
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=574292
> 
> will reach 60-65 C in still room temp air. Too hot to touch for more than a split second! Riding a moderate pace in 10-12C temps keeps it down to comfortably warm temps ( never got out the thermometer to check it on a ride). It has a large amount of finning relative to it's body size. I switch to low when going slow or stopped and all is well this past winter. Temp sensitive auto dimming on a small, high output light will be quite helpful.


I'm also very curious how my housing will fare regarding cooling. I'll be doing thermal measurements once I get the light up and running (static and w/ air flow). If I have thermal issues with it I will look to increase the surface area by making the fins deeper.

The other option would be to make the housing out of Copper (higher thermal conductivity). It would triple the weight of the housing, but going from 20g to 60g wouldn't be too big of a deal. With the higher thermal conductivity of Cu I would also look at reducing the amount of material to save some weight.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> I'm also very curious how my housing will fare regarding cooling. If I have thermal issues with it I would look to increase the surface area by making the fins deeper.
> 
> The other option would be to make the housing out of Copper (higher thermal conductivity). It would triple the weight of the housing, but going from 20g to 60g wouldn't be too big of a deal. With the higher thermal conductivity of Cu I would also look at reducing the amount of material to save some weight.


MHO would be to skip the copper and plan for more surface area (fins). Moving heat to air is the problem to solve.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> MHO would be to skip the copper and plan for more surface area (fins). Moving heat to air is the problem to solve.


Good point...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> By using a 2s LiIon Battery on the mode module i cant expect a sleep mode? it would be more a ultralow mode!?


yes. But using a 2s LiFe (Hyperion) pack the sleep mode with almost zero leak can be easily achived.



Whitedog1 said:


> For example by using a wired mode switch i would get: High - mid - low and then off (which is actually a ultralow mode) ?


exactly. I simply had no room for an additional cut-off switch and larger controller (i used all pins). the next buck version will be free of this issue. and of course it will be much easy to implement a more complex circuity on a quad or six play.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> I'd like to see more description on how to use the Mode Control function, and please write it for the non-EE...Also provide more info on dimming levels for button control.


sure, I'll do as soon as the firmware is finished.



jmitchell13 said:


> The max current output ratings look fine, but some folks might want to run a bit lower (750mA) to save run time. There is diminishing returns on light output as you approach the max current of the leds.


no problem. The max currate rate can be reduced by a hardware fix. I can do a custom, no problem.



jmitchell13 said:


> The graphs for electrical characheristics are very usefull, however the oscilloscope images might be too much information.


I kept the oscilloscope images for my future reference. For me it's better to keep all technical details in one place.  If you don't need it, just skip.



jmitchell13 said:


> A few minor typos


I have located a few. Fixed.



jmitchell13 said:


> How are the current levels set? Is it hardware or software based? And is there anyway to hack it?


it's software based PWM generator. I'll explain in details later (in 1 week I hope)



jmitchell13 said:


> Quazzle, could you also comment on MtbMacgyver's post:
> One of the disadvantages of putting electronics on the MCPCB with the LEDs is that you typically have to use more PCB layers to be able to route all the signals on the board. The reason that's a disadvantage is because you have to add a non-conductive laminate layer between each signal layer. That increases the thermal resistance of the MCPCB. Simple MCPCBs that just have LEDs only have a single non-conductive laminate layer between the signals traces on the surface and the base metal core. I'm not saying this is wrong, it's just one of the tradeoffs of the design choice of putting components on the MCPCB with the LEDs. All design choices result in trade offs.
> Quazzle, how many layers did you have to use on this board? Just trying to get a better feel of the thermal characteristics of the module?


Sorry I completely missed this question but it is a very good question.
I use a single layer high-freq. aluminum laminate with a 20um thin-polyamide insulator. 
No FR4 at all. The thermal conductivity of this material is 1,8~3,0 W·K−1·m−2
It was a real puzzle to layout the circuits in a single layer, you should know  But this material gives an exceptional low thermal resistance.

I'll chech how it works in mass production for L33, as a plan "B" I have a more expensive option to use a cooper based MCPCB


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

Quazzle,

I may have missed it as this is getting really long and my focus gets easily off track...

how much will these run US $'s?

I have a dual P7 for the bars but would love this for the helmet...

JB


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

jmitchell13 said:


> I'm also very curious how my housing will fare regarding cooling. I'll be doing thermal measurements once I get the light up and running (static and w/ air flow). If I have thermal issues with it I will look to increase the surface area by making the fins deeper.
> 
> The other option would be to make the housing out of Copper (higher thermal conductivity). It would triple the weight of the housing, but going from 20g to 60g wouldn't be too big of a deal. With the higher thermal conductivity of Cu I would also look at reducing the amount of material to save some weight.


+1 Vancbiker has this right. WRT copper bodied light, it is not just the weight difference but a thermal one too: aluminum transfers heat to air better.

Copper's main value in its higher thermal conductivity is as a heat spreader. It is used in the center of some flashlight heat sinks close to the heat source where its advantage has the largest effect and the amount needed is less, so its higher mass is not as big a drawback.

Since the quazzle triple module has several heat sources, a copper firewall might improve the distribution and speed of transfer into the aluminum body. The key is you want as much metal metal contact as possible between the two pieces, no air gaps and some thermal paste or epoxy to fill microscopic gaps or the resistance at hte interface will prevent the benefit of the copper. Otherwise a contiguous aluminum body is better. The light should be water tight anyway, but keep in mind that water + aluminum + copper creates a galvanic corrosion. So the joint should not be exposed to weather.

Aluminum transfers heat to air better (possibly best, at least my reading came up with nothing better), and dark anodizing especially black is the best finish for the aluminum in terms of air transfer. Anodizing at a metal-metal interface increases resistance at that joint so should be removed before a thermal joint is made. The internal resistance of the LED junction to pad, and from the body to the air are the two greatest resistances. So the law of diminishing returns applies to a very good versus excellent thermal path between the two.

Fortunately heat wants to go to colder so all you have to do is keep the barriers to that as small as possible and the temperature difference as large as possible while keeping the light small and well, light. It is a fun problem to solve.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

would one of these modules work with a dyno hub


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> I think I could leave mine raw and still have adequate cooling...but I'm considering deep blue or red.


Raw or anodized, the difference in cooling ability is negligible.



chelboed said:


> Anybody have a good Anodizing source with a fairly quick turn-around in the U.S.?


I know a place near Portland, Or. that does nice work and can do a fast turn. Last I checked they had a $50 minimum order. I am too cheap to do that so I have left mine raw. PM if you want contact info.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Too cheap here too...maybe I'll just usea pencil eraser and some jewelers rouge and jewel it like a rifle bolt.
> 
> A tad gaudy...but fun and interesting.


I was lucky enough to buddle my housing in with a batch of parts being sent out from work.

Our vendor is the similar in pricing as vancbiker's, $55 per batch.

I am also too cheap, if I had to pay for it myself I wouldn't get it done.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

I have heard rumors that the XPG S2 bin will be available soon - some samples are already out at some guys in this forum!

Quazzle will you also equip your modules with the S2 bin when they are available?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Quazzle will you also equip your modules with the S2 bin when they are available?


it will be a very easy update. I'll be tracking it! :thumbsup:


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

quazzle said:


> Sorry I completely missed this question but it is a very good question.
> I use a single layer high-freq. aluminum laminate with a 20um thin-polyamide insulator.
> No FR4 at all. The thermal conductivity of this material is 1,8~3,0 W·K−1·m−2
> It was a real puzzle to layout the circuits in a single layer, you should know  But this material gives an exceptional low thermal resistance.


Getting everything routed on a single layer must have indeed been quite a puzzle. I'm impressed.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Sweet light! What are you using for wire? Don't think of it as doing it the "hard" way, think of it as doing it the "right" way.

Yo Quazzle, that's two housings ready for your light engine. No pressure


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> Yo Quazzle, that's two housings ready for your light engine. No pressure


Make that three.

While my trusty employee was actually being productive today, I was playing on the lathe and mill. Got my prototype light-head made. Bit different to my original design.... I decided to go for longitudinal grooves for the bezel, and used a clock gear cutter. Not too sure if I really like the effect, but it'll do for now. Haven't quite decided on wire routing yet. I might still run it straight down the middle, and use a small cap screw like Chelboed, and I might drill an angled hole from the edge and run it through the heat sink to the back, sealing it up with JB Weld.

Photo time:


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Nice gear-like look to bezel. :thumbsup: 

Not your average DIY workshop tools. Must repeat to myself: Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's lathes and machine tools! Fun that we have three different takes on a housing even for the onlookers! :thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Make that three.


wow! that should a very thermal efficient design.



bshallard said:


> ...I decided to go for longitudinal grooves for the bezel, and used a clock gear cutter. Not too sure if I really like the effect, but it'll do for now.


I'd lathed it to reduce the outer diameter. This will decrease the grooves depth



bshallard said:


> Haven't quite decided on wire routing yet. I might still run it straight down the middle, and use a small cap screw like Chelboed, and I might drill an angled hole from the edge and run it through the heat sink to the back, sealing it up with JB Weld.


The second option sounds better to me. The hole in the center will increase the thermal resistance of the core. If you're going to try L33.2 check the specs in respect to the wire slot position/size - http://www.lux-rc.com/temp/L332PCB-EN-120416.pdf


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*No 4 waiting in the wings*

Ha Ha this makes me giggle :lol:



















Oops :madman: forgot the weight of Quazzles components to add on .


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

bshallard,
I made this a year or so ago and the side wire entry works great and lets the centre core take the heat away.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm amazed by the progress here with housings and it seems to me that I'll have to stay at work this weekend to update the site and do some bookkeeping. I simply can't afford delaying anymore.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Wow Troutie, looks challenging! You'll have to place a sticker on top saying "DO NOT INSTALL THIS OVER A CARBON BAR!!!"

I had something that looks very similar to yours:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

old timers on here will remember this one 









it took days of hacksaw and file work designed for 2 mce but never had them installed 
worked a treat a smaller version would have been great for Quazzles units .

I still have it lying around but the holes were for the ledil optics and are 21.6 mm dia so a bit large for these .

the one i posted today I was just messing around started to do one a bit like Chelboeds and messed it up so changed tack halfway through it could lose more weight with some more machining but will wait till I have a light engine to fit in it for testing .
though I dont see any issues with heat from testing I did a few years ago



> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
> 
> Are you gonna use thermal goop against your bars...thus the entire bar become a sink? lol


you dont need thermal goop nearly anything will do copper grease / zinc nappy cream works well .


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## thmaxxer (Oct 26, 2008)

chelboed said:


> Yeah...it must feel like a huge boost to have so many people believe in you to such a degree that they spend hours building housings to fit something that technically doesn't exist yet...knowing that any day now you will come through with a killer product!


Exactly.... so many of us waiting patiently for that post that says taking orders now!! :thumbsup:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

thmaxxer said:


> Exactly.... so many of us waiting patiently for that post that says taking orders now!! :thumbsup:


Ha ha ha, speak for yourself... I've been waiting quite IMPATIENTLY since Q first posted it back in January.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> old timers on here will remember this one


Watch who you call an old timer mate 

What amazes me is so many people have spent so much time on housing for a light engine that we have no idea of cost of yet.

c'mon Quazzle, how much? You must have some idea by now


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> Ha Ha this makes me giggle :lol:
> 
> Oops :madman: forgot the weight of Quazzles components to add on .


I knew it wouldn't be long before you made a housing for this... You are the ultimate tinkerer. Nice work!!!
I've always liked the idea of using the bars as a heat sink, but I use a helmet light so that concept does me no good. Hmmm? Maybe I'll have to make a second one for the bars.



emu26 said:


> What amazes me is so many people have spent so much time on housing for a light engine that we have no idea of cost of yet.
> 
> c'mon Quazzle, how much? You must have some idea by now


This post was enough to get me started (#76 on page 2):
Besides, if this never gets off the ground we can resort to a 20mm triple board from cutter, and mount the driver externally.


quazzle said:


> very rough, so please don't consider as a final.
> 
> for example very similar L30.3 module
> 
> ...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Wow!
> 
> Is the sink pressed into the bezel?


If this was directed at me, then yes. I machined them to press fit tolerance. I probably would have threaded it, but I don't have a threading attachment for my little Sherline lathe yet. This first one is destined for my brother, and he won't be wanting to upgrade it any time soon, so I will probably press fit the bezel to the sink with a bit of thermal paste to fill up any air gaps. It won't come apart very readily, but it shouldn't need to.
The important dimensions are exactly as shown in the CAD drawing I put up the other day.

b.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

chelboed
What sort of non machinist tools might one use to cut the bar diameter on this piece troutie? Hole saw?[/QUOTE said:


> Yes a 30 mm hole saw and finished of with abrasive paper glued to a 31mm old seatpost and a lot of elbow grease .
> 
> I have a roady guy who wants a custom light of a similar type for his road bike
> so should be easier now with better tools and Qs module .
> in that one the Maxflex was inside the stem and the switch in the ahead top cap .


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> bshallard,
> I made this a year or so ago and the side wire entry works great and lets the centre core take the heat away.


Thanks for posting. I'm going to follow your advice and run the wires out the side, just on a fair bit of an angle.

Cheers,
b.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Great news, Quazzle has updated his site. Boards are up for sale by the looks of things.

Nice pricing and you can order single boards.

Nice work Quazzle, thanks.

http://lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Quazzle, do you still plan on offering a mixed board with either 2 xp-g and 1 xp-e or 2 xp-e and 1 xp-g?

How did the testing with two boards in parallel, sharing common switches go?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Hey Quazzle.

What's the lead time on delivery? Are they ready to ship?

b.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Oh, and where do I get the optics?
I looked up Carclo and found them but didn't see a 'shop here' tab.

Ta,
b.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

#1. The lead time is up to 4 weeks because I don't have enough components in stock. I have placed an order at digikey but normally it takes up to 4 weeks for shipping. I'll update the stock availability later today.

#2. I'll add the optics options as well. 

your interest encourages me, thank you!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Let us know when you've got the optics option up. I want three, and as you can see I already have the first light head made.
Cheers,
b.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Yes!!! 4 week lead time:madman:, at least we have pricing and there is some light at the end of the tunnel.

emu26 asked about mixed boards, but will you be offering an all XPE version too?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> #1. The lead time is up to 4 weeks because I don't have enough components in stock. I have placed an order at digikey but normally it takes up to 4 weeks for shipping. I'll update the stock availability later today.
> 
> #2. I'll add the optics options as well.
> 
> your interest encourages me, thank you!


Looks like you're located in Russia, right?
You might get faster delivery from Farnell UK (http://uk.farnell.com/)


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Anybody thinking about the Iceland volcano effect?*



> • Moscow's Sheremetyevo Airport will resume some flights to Europe, Israel, Egypt and Turkey. Twelve Russian airports canceled a total of 448 flights Monday morning. An additional 80 were delayed, and two were postponed, affecting nearly 39,000 passengers.
> 
> Sheremetyevo airport has been affected by far more than others: 277 canceled flights and 59 delayed, with more than 28,000 people stranded.





> Global leaders in logistics, FedEx, UPS and DHL have been forced to significantly cut shipments. DHL announced it was forced to create a new logistic net through the airports that are still open as the Leipzig airport, its transportation hub, is closed.


***


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

UPS statement - http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/about/news/service_updates/20100415_european_volcano.html

DHL statement - http://www.dhl-usa.com/custserv/servicealert.asp?id=1

Fed Ex statement - http://fedex.com/us/update.html

***


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Let us know when you've got the optics option up. I want three, and as you can see I already have the first light head made.
> Cheers,
> b.


hopefully finish with optics today (need some pictures).


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Sweeeet! Quaz...did you get my PM?


Answered! Sorry for delay.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> Yes!!! 4 week lead time:madman:, at least we have pricing and there is some light at the end of the tunnel.
> emu26 asked about mixed boards, but will you be offering an all XPE version too?


sure I can. I have placed an order for XPE R3 Leds just now


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> Looks like you're located in Russia, right?
> You might get faster delivery from Farnell UK (http://uk.farnell.com/)


I know this site, thanks. A bit expensive. I ordered some the most urgent parts there too. But I don't think that my order will be delivered soon because of air traffic disrupt.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> sure I can. I have placed an order for XPE R3 Leds just now


Great! I'm interested on one with XPGs and one with XPE's



quazzle said:


> I know this site, thanks. A bit expensive. I ordered some the most urgent parts there too. But I don't think that my order will be delivered soon because of air traffic disrupt.


Ok, just trying to help. I guess I need to be a little more patient


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## uhg (Nov 29, 2008)

Hi Quazzle,

Great job, but I don't quite get the specs re. modes. Especially, how much current does the non-MC L33.2 (i.e. the one where you can simply change modes by quickly switching the power off/on) draw at the battery in its lowest mode?

Can it run any significant amount of time in low mode on four AAs in series? (I'm modding a light that has an optional 4XAA battery compartment for emergency purposes).


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Well, I couldn't wait for the optics option, so I placed my order...(twice accidentally).


 thank you! I have replied by email. The issue should be fixed now, I have issued a full refund for the dup.


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## MHC (Oct 23, 2009)

Any plans for a 4 x XPG buck unit?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

MHC said:


> Any plans for a 4 x XPG buck unit?


board size? 
frankly saying I thought to skip 4 and do 12.
My point - 4 play will give additionally only +30% of output, not a big deal.
My plan is to multiply the luminous flux on 3.14 from product to product  
350 => 1100 => 4000
I can clearly tell the difference between 350 and 1100.
Between 1100 and 4000 - I'm sure I'll do.

But 1100 and something about 1400 is nearly the same to me.


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## MHC (Oct 23, 2009)

> board size?


35mm to fit MR11 lamp units as a lot of people convert old halogen units & optics are readily available


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

4000, IMO, is complete overkill for a bike light....but bikes are not the _only_ use for LED lighting ;-)

But Q is right....hardly a difference between 3 and 4. Only reason is to satisfy the 35mm folks (of which I have made a few  That finned 35mm DX housing would make a nice host.

JZ


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Xpe*

Hey Quazzle, I will be wanting 3 all XPE boards, since I want maximum throw. Will you put them as an option on your site or should I just order the XPG board and let you know here that it is the XPEs I want?

b.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Hey Quazzle, I will be wanting 3 all XPE boards, since I want maximum throw. Will you put them as an option on your site or should I just order the XPG board and let you know here that it is the XPEs I want?
> b.


I'll add a separate option for it as soon as the parts arrive


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Great news, Quazzle has updated his site. Boards are up for sale by the looks of things.
> 
> Nice pricing and you can order single boards.
> 
> ...


I have been jumping in an out of this thread so please be patient with me if this has been answered already.

Quazzle- can we order your L30 housing + bike mount option and upgrade it to the 1100 lumens config?
If yes, then what parts does one need to order from your site and what other parts are needed to finish the light?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Jim Z in VT said:


> 4000, IMO, is complete overkill for a bike light....but bikes are not the _only_ use for LED lighting ;-)
> JZ


I have this John Deere 445 lawn tractor that could use a couple of decent lights instead of what it has.. was thinking two 1100 lumen modules might do the trick but 4000 lumens!.

12 volt but a couple of high watt power resistors could fix that and there's plenty of electrical power on tap. Aimed right I could singe the grass rather than mow it and melt snow instead of plow it!  Hyperbole can be fun! Need a low setting for driving on the road to clear snow in neighbors drives... or I'll have a lot of blind neighbors suddenly.:nono:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> Quazzle- can we order your L30 housing + bike mount option and upgrade it to the 1100 lumens config?


If shortly - no. L30 admits 18mm board, L33 is too big for it (20mm). L30 can't dissipate 10W


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

quazzle said:


> If shortly - no. L30 admits 18mm board, L33 is too big for it (20mm). L30 can't dissipate 10W


Is it possible to mill out an L30 body to 20mm?
Then use the L30 cooler to help dissipate more watts?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

oldassracer said:


> Is it possible to mill out an L30 body to 20mm?
> Then use the L30 cooler to help dissipate more watts?


it takes the same efforts as to design and mill a completely new housing. That what I'm doing now. By the way, the cooler option will be compatible with new housing for L33.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Any idea's for a helmet mount?
> ....
> Other ideas for the helmet that keeps it low profile?


what about this?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## ianrab (Jun 29, 2009)

Question for Quazzle:
I don't know if it's been addressed before, but what how do you recommend mounting the board and optic? (I've built one with Arctic Silver epoxy, but would like to be able to remove it if needed.)


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

ianrab said:


> I don't know if it's been addressed before, but what how do you recommend mounting the board and optic? (I've built one with Arctic Silver epoxy, but would like to be able to remove it if needed.)


the ideas introduced here
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6809832&postcount=307
and here
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6799021&postcount=243
are conceptually very good.

I'm going to use the same in my light. But again, applying a thermally conductive grease or adhesive a good practice. DOW CORNING adhesives are easily removed (they use silicone materials instead of epoxy resin)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Let us know when you've got the optics option up. I want three, and as you can see I already have the first light head made.
> Cheers,
> b.


Clear!
http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order

sorry for low quality pictures and high prices. It was a real trouble to catch pictures of transparent objects. As for the prices, they'll be lower after I increase the volumes. I still think it's not a big issue to find carclo optics. cutter.com.au has it in stock


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## ianrab (Jun 29, 2009)

chelboed said:


> (Not to intrude, but...)


Thanks. I guess I just missed it. Oh, and your triple³ looks sweeeeeeeeeet.

And yes, I will be using a thermal grease (the Arctic Silver grease I bought by mistake). Oh well, it'll get used up.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> it takes the same efforts as to design and mill a completely new housing. That what I'm doing now. By the way, the cooler option will be compatible with new housing for L33.


So when will the new L33 housings become available? I also don't see a complete light offered with the L31 ( xpg ) light engine.  Are these forthcoming?

*Additional comments:* I like the light/helmet mount design you have for the L30's. I'd like to see a version for both L33 and L31 light-engines. I'd also like to see a version of the light/helmet mount with the hooks pointing front and back for up-right bar use. Yes, I know you could rotate the current version down parallel with the bars but this would take away the easy ( up/down ) tilt feature of the mount. I really do hope you eventually offer an L33 version with XP-E R-3 for those of us who just want more throw and less spill.

Anyway, keep up the good work. :thumbsup: Right now I am considering two options: #1 a parallel double, XP-G or XP-E R-3 helmet configuration or ( #2 ) a single triple helmet XP-E R-3 set up. If I see something I like I will likely buy.


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## ashallard (Apr 23, 2010)

What an educational thread guys. I too am quite keen on a triple XP-E version. I want something I can freeze bunnies with at 100 metres - something which I can mount on my head or scope without having to carry around a massive 12 Ah sealed lead acid battery. Then all I need is to convince my brother with all the tools to help me knock up an appropriate heatsink.:thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

I like #4 the best, because it is the lowest profile.

and #2 the least, because it looks ridiculous.

My homemade non-adjustable mounts sit in about the same position as #1. Which works just fine. I'd like it more forward and lower, but I'm too lazy to design and build anything that complicated.

JZ

(you have a lot of those helmets, don't you?


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## ianrab (Jun 29, 2009)

I like the way #3 and #4 look, but #4 looks a bit cramped for the cord at the back. Also, your design of the light itself looks good mounted where it is. And I do think #2 looks a bit awkward.

my 2¢


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## ianrab (Jun 29, 2009)

chelboed said:


> What do you mean? Are you talking about the "top of the helmet" picture?


Yeah, I should have been more specific. I meant it looks good in pictures 3 and 4. I have no idea as to why, but I had it in my mind that it was going to be handlebar mounted. So when I saw it on your helmet, it just surprised me at how good it looks mounted there. :eekster:

Great work.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

Very nice work chelboed!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

ashallard said:


> What an educational thread guys. I too am quite keen on a triple XP-E version. I want something I can freeze bunnies with at 100 metres - something which I can mount on my head or scope without having to carry around a massive 12 Ah sealed lead acid battery. Then all I need is to convince my brother with all the tools to help me knock up an appropriate heatsink.:thumbsup:


So now I'll be needing four all-XPE boards Quazzle. Two for me and two for brothers.
As for convincing me to help with the machining brother, I believe a bottle of Dalmore is always an appropriate bribe.

b.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ashallard said:


> What an educational thread guys. I too am quite keen on a triple XP-E version. I want something I can freeze bunnies with at 100 metres - something which I can mount on my head or scope without having to carry around a massive 12 Ah sealed lead acid battery. Then all I need is to convince my brother with all the tools to help me knock up an appropriate heatsink.:thumbsup:


I am not too sure for Wabbit hunting at 100 mtres the triple is the right choice even with XPEs on board .The buggers just runaway when I shine my dog walking triple on them .

you need to be looking at an aspheric for that


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> This mount is beating me down!
> 
> Any opinions?


I like this one best. It has the lowest profile.

It is the mount position I'm using for my housing. I have a cateye helmet mount I plan on using. I'll try to post some pics of it.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> I like this one best. It has the lowest profile.
> 
> It is the mount position I'm using for my housing. I have a cateye helmet mount I plan on using. I'll try to post some pics of it.


I'll add my recommendation for this mount as well. I have a very similar arrangement on my helmet light. It has fiber washers between the body and mount. The screws have lock washers and are locktighted into the body with enough tension that it holds the adjustment but can be moved to adjust the aim. I find that at the beginning of a ride, when fresh and full of energy, the aim that works well is only lighting up the front tire near the end of the ride. Something to do with being 50 something and fatigue (didn't seem to be as much an issue a decade ago ).


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> I have a cateye helmet mount I plan on using. I'll try to post some pics of it.


This sits a little higher than chelboed's, but I'm willing to give up a little height for the easy removal feature of the cateye mount.


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## ianrab (Jun 29, 2009)

Jmitchell13, nice work. It reminds me of this headlight.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Can you put up a link for where you are ordering the end mills from? I can't find anywhere local and the fleabay ones I have found tend to want to sell a set.

Thanks


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

emu26 said:


> Can you put up a link for where you are ordering the end mills from? I can't find anywhere local and the fleabay ones I have found tend to want to sell a set.
> 
> Thanks


Here are two places to get endmills:
www.mcmaster.com
www.mscdirect.com


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## ianrab (Jun 29, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Can you drill a 20mm hole with a drill press (slowly) into some 6061 T6...and finish the hole with an Aircraft type counterbore (slowly)?[/IMG]


From what the shop supervisor at school says, no. But if you drill the main hole in steps (small holes to 20mm) and only use that bit to square the bottom, I think it will work.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Hypothetically:
> 
> Can you drill a 20mm hole with a drill press (slowly) into some 6061 T6...and finish the hole with an Aircraft type counterbore (slowly)?


As long as the bottom face of that tool is flat I'd give it a go. But as ianrab said, don't try to drill your initial hole at one time. Use multiple drills, increasing the diameter each time.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Great progess, chelboed! Good find!
You've got a very low profile and stylish body for the light. 
Do you have anodizing in plans?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Did you do your own ano?


No, I had it sent out with a batch of parts from work.


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## uhg (Nov 29, 2008)

*Waiting for MC, some suggestions*

Hi again Quazzle, board,

I finally figured it out - you simply haven't gotten round to the MC version yet! Sorry for being so thick.

However, please take my initial post as a still valid suggestion to include a frugal low mode in the MC version - e.g. low enough to run for a couple of hours on a 4S set of alkaline AAs while still providing just enough light to (slowly) navigate your way out of the trail, or for use while setting up at a poorly lit parking lot.

I hope you'll get round to also making the MC variant available. I'm certainly in the market for a couple of boards. Later still, I'd be interested in a buck version to run from a 14.8V li-ion - three of these would enable a spectacular upgrade to my Cateye Tripleshot!

Thanks,



uhg said:


> Hi Quazzle,
> 
> Great job, but I don't quite get the specs re. modes. Especially, how much current does the non-MC L33.2 (i.e. the one where you can simply change modes by quickly switching the power off/on) draw at the battery in its lowest mode?
> 
> Can it run any significant amount of time in low mode on four AAs in series? (I'm modding a light that has an optional 4XAA battery compartment for emergency purposes).


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> What the heck is an "MC"?


MC stands for "mode control". A regular L33.2 (wthich is available now) exhibits just a single maxumum mode.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

The mount is as big as the light. Looks nice and robust but, IMHO, too large. Your earlier mount (posted ~4 days ago) suits a small light better.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> *Anybody else make a host for the light engine yet? I really want to see some other ideas.*


I do. I'll post my drawings a bit later


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## thmaxxer (Oct 26, 2008)

*Eta?*

Quazzle, what is your best estimate for a timeline when the L33 will be done, and ready to mount on my bars with your housing?


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...








...


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> MC stands for "mode control". A regular L33.2 (*which is available now*) exhibits just a single maxumum mode.


So what's the latest on the mode control version? When will it be available? Can you provide any details on how the push button control will function?

I'm wondering if I should just pull the trigger on the regular L33.2, instead of waiting out for the MC version. 
Also, reagrding the above quote does this mean that you have stock of the regular L33.2 ready for purchase?

When can we expect to see the XPE version on your website?


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## thmaxxer (Oct 26, 2008)

chelboed said:


> Hard to be patient eh? LOL! Me too!


Yes, I am going crazy!!! Its like Christmas is coming and the date keeps moving back....lol
Great looking mount by the way!


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

chelboed said:


> How bout this mount guys? It took me a long time b/c I'm still Mill'less and milling on a drill press is just plain dangerous!!


Wait a durn minute...what size material did you start with to get that one piece unit out of it? 

I like the single side and all but did you have a lot of waste?

JB


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

thmaxxer said:


> Quazzle, what is your best estimate for a timeline when the L33 will be done, and ready to mount on my bars with your housing?


June 2010. Sorry for very delayed delivery, but it's the best I can do from here.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> So what's the latest on the mode control version? When will it be available? Can you provide any details on how the push button control will function?


in next 2-3 weeks. I'm still waiting for some parts which should be delivered by 5-8 May.



jmitchell13 said:


> Also, reagrding the above quote does this mean that you have stock of the regular L33.2 ready for purchase?


again, I have sold all in 1 day  I didn't expect that they would be so popular so this time I ordered more parts to have enough in stock. I expect the parts next week. Together with XPE R3 version. I'll post the update here


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> in next 2-3 weeks. I'm still waiting for some parts which should be delivered by 5-8 May.
> 
> again, I have sold all in 1 day  I didn't expect that they would be so popular so this time I ordered more parts to have enough in stock. I expect the parts next week.* Together with XPE R3 version. I'll post the update here*


...Ah, the plot thickin's. Holding out for XPE R3's....and while on the subject, Anyone else know where to get a triple board for XPE R3's...either 20mm or larger ( 35mm ) ??


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> ...Ah, the plot thickin's. Holding out for XPE R3's....and while on the subject, Anyone else know where to get a triple board for XPE R3's...either 20mm or larger ( 35mm ) ??


Cutter has XPE R3 that can be ordered on 3 up 20mm boards. Look for XPEMR8SER MCPCB in the Cree XPE section.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> Cutter has XPE R3 that can be ordered on 3 up 20mm boards. Look for XPEMR8SER MCPCB in the Cree XPE section.


You're not paying attention to the subject of the thread. Go back and read the beginning for context.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

MtbMacgyver said:


> You're not paying attention to the subject of the thread. Go back and read the beginning for context.


Really? I've been following this since the very first post, but its a freaking long thread so who knows. Seems like I was answering the question posed by *Cat-man-do.*


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

kwarwick said:


> Really? I've been following this since the very first post, but its a freaking long thread so who knows. Seems like I was answering the question posed by *Cat-man-do.*


Well, ok...you may be right. I guess the question is for Cat-man-do. Are you looking for a board with an integrated drivers or just a board w/ XPEs that can be used with an external driver.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MtbMacgyver said:


> Well, ok...you may be right. I guess the question is for Cat-man-do. Are you looking for a board with an integrated drivers or just a board w/ XPEs that can be used with an external driver.


Well....Since the thread was originally about the Quazzle integrated LED/Driver PCB many of which are with XP-G AND Quazzle mentioned planning doing some with XPE R3....not to mention he has already run out of some stuff, I didn't think it too much a bother to ask for other options for those not willing to wait. _I don't think in this case that the apples I'm asking about are too far from the tree._ Besides a quick two sentence answer and it's done. ( Thank You kwarwick ).

...Now about deviating off subject... What I didn't do was post details and photos of a present or planned build and go on and on about it throughout the thread...which in my opinion took away from the main issue which was the availability of the Quazzle PCB boards and light engines. Now if all the talk about personal builds took less than a couple post please accept my apology. Actually it didn't bother me that much or I would have spoke out earlier so right now I'm just being defensive.

Anyway... ....I don't own a 20mm XPE R3 triple. It would be nice to see what one looks like with my own eyes before I wait to see what quazzle comes ( or doesn't come ) up with. If I like the beam pattern I see with the Cutter 20mm XPE R3 triple I might go ahead and buy one of quazzles. I don't think any of this is too far off subject.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Good point...sorry. I deleted all my posts up to 4wks ago...I'll do the rest later.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Well....Since the thread was originally about the Quazzle integrated LED/Driver PCB many of which are with XP-G AND Quazzle mentioned planning doing some with XPE R3....not to mention he has already run out of some stuff, I didn't think it too much a bother to ask for other options for those not willing to wait. _I don't think in this case that the apples I'm asking about are too far from the tree._ Besides a quick two sentence answer and it's done. ( Thank You kwarwick ).
> 
> ...Now about deviating off subject... What I didn't do was post details and photos of a present or planned build and go on and on about it throughout the thread...which in my opinion took away from the main issue which was the availability of the Quazzle PCB boards and light engines. Now if all the talk about personal builds took less than a couple post please accept my apology. Actually it didn't bother me that much or I would have spoke out earlier so right now I'm just being defensive.
> 
> Anyway... ....I don't own a 20mm XPE R3 triple. It would be nice to see what one looks like with my own eyes before I wait to see what quazzle comes ( or doesn't come ) up with. If I like the beam pattern I see with the Cutter 20mm XPE R3 triple I might go ahead and buy one of quazzles. I don't think any of this is too far off subject.


I didn't comment because I was concerned so much about being off topic. Was mostly concerned that you would be misdirected thinking the cutter board performed the same function as quazzle's module. Then when I looked back at your post, I still wasn't sure if you were looking for a drop in replacement for quazzle's module or anything with XPE R3s.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

well, some news came. One was bad and two were good. From which to begin...:idea:

ok, the bad news is that all parts I'm impatiently waiting for are still delaying. :madman: L332, L332MC and L332 XP-E R3 are still out of stock. Sorry.

The good news #1 - I have received the hardware for P05 project - a portable 36Wh power supply for different lights
























so with this project it seems I'm still in the schedule. The working samples should be finished by June.

And I just succeeded in chrome plating of small parts. It wasn't an easy, the previous two attempts failed. But now the technology is stabilized, L30 in chrome plated and polished housing is already available:


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MtbMacgyver said:


> I didn't comment because I was concerned so much about being off topic. Was mostly concerned that you would be misdirected thinking the cutter board performed the same function as quazzle's module. Then when I looked back at your post, I still wasn't sure if you were looking for a drop in replacement for quazzle's module or anything with XPE R3s.


That's okay, misunderstandings happen. No, I wasn't looking for a drop in replacement as I knew that the quazzle module was an all-in-one LED/driver and that ( at least for the moment ) no one else is offering one like his. I already have a light that is using a standard XPG R5 triple ( with external driver ). It shouldn't be too hard for me to rig up something with a standard XPE triple(R3 if possible ) as a test to see if I like the beam pattern. Like others, I'd like to get one of the L33 quazzle builds ( XPE R3 ) including the housing when or if it becomes available.

Sorry if I stepped on some toes in my effort to vindicate myself. Was not my intention to make anyone squirm. chelboed, your build is truly a work of art. While it clearly deserves it's own thread, the quazzle thread kind of veered off course WAY before you did your initial post. ( somewhere around post #104? ) Anyway, when you get your light completed I really would like to see how well it works. Once again, one of the better DIY helmet setups that I've seen on forum.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> chelboed, your build is truly a work of art. While it clearly deserves it's own thread, ..... Anyway, when you get your light completed I really would like to see how well it works. Once again, one of the better DIY helmet setups that I've seen on forum.


+1 on all points above.

As someone who has/is/will be googling this and the CPF Bicycle forums like a databank of ideas, I would like to see each completed light first shown in this thread, with its own thread from drawings to beamshots, if possible. It would simpify connecting the dots in this thread. chlboed has done so over in CPF. He only need copy it here or a thread with a link there.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

BrianMc said:


> +1 on all points above.


I agree to the points brought up above...quickie shot of a finished host is good enough for this thread. We should have a mod start a sticky containing only finished DIY's with step-by-step pic's...to the point, but more Play-by-play pictoral so the noobs can see the process. (I say "finished DIY's" b/c this way you can sort your content before you post...so it's not strewn about throughout the whole thread. Just like 1-2 posts to contain all the necessary pic's and info.) Maybe even say comments and kudo's by PM only to keep it really clean...like a place to go window shopping...though 25 PM's a day to Troutie and quazzle could get annoying, hahaha.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Good point...sorry. I deleted all my posts up to 4wks ago...I'll do the rest later.


Seams very unnecessary. Just because one person complained? I think the info on the housing really added to the topic. They demonstrated how the integrated driver/LEDs completely simplifies the housing configuration.

Sure there were some posts that were off topic, but 90% of the threads in MTBR go off topic at some point. Most way beyond what happened in this thread.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Now to get this thread back on topic...

Quazzle, how will the push button dimming work? Can you at least tell us what you're trying to achieve? Push to change level? Press to turn off? Three levels, two levels? Something, please...


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> Now to get this thread back on topic...
> 
> Quazzle, how will the push button dimming work? Can you at least tell us what you're trying to achieve? Push to change level? Press to turn off? Three levels, two levels? Something, please...


Did you actually read the thread JM?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Mark2c said:


> Did you actually read the thread JM?


Yes, I've been following this thread from the very beginning.

No where is there an explanation of what he was able to impliment. Sure Q talked about what he wants to do very early in this thread. But the lack of description in the data sheet and reluctance to describe in detail leads me to believe he has had issues with implimenting the mode control and may have needed to make changes to his original plan.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> ....But the lack of description in the data sheet and reluctance to describe in detail leads me to believe he has had issues with implimenting the mode control and may have needed to make changes to his original plan.


I have missed your question, well, in fact no changes in plans. I'm waiting for a new programmer and chips because couldn't make it work for attiny10 with their new TPI programming protocol. The microcontoller was easily replaced on pic with the same footprint. Well, I'll need to write another asm progam, it should take too long.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

quazzle,

please buy a classified ad and place it in your signature, like other light providers on the boards.


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

crisillo said:


> quazzle,
> 
> please buy a classified ad and place it in your signature, like other light providers on the boards.


Amazed that it has taken so long for this request to be made. Was it made at the request of other manufacturers, or did the Mods finally decide to look at the 2010 postings?? :thumbsup:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

crisillo said:


> quazzle,
> please buy a classified ad and place it in your signature, like other light providers on the boards.


will do


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

bumphumper said:


> Amazed that it has taken so long for this request to be made. Was it made at the request of other manufacturers, or did the Mods finally decide to look at the 2010 postings?? :thumbsup:


Meeeeeeeeeeeoooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Sorry JM, my mistake. I had the impression that Quazzle had:
1) Current version with just a simple on/off interface and 
2) Agreed that for trail riding: high/low switching shouldn't have to go through intermediate off/flashing states.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Better get on the stick, quazzle.:thumbsup: (kidding)

Host #2 ready for the heat!









More detailed build and pic's here.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

quazzle said:


> will do


Quazzle,

It's been 2 days, please comply or I will have to take the thread down.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I'd say a week grace period is fair. Please don't rip the thread down too soon. There are quite a few people here outside of quazzle who would like to see it stay where it is.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

chelboed said:


> I'd say a week grace period is fair. Please don't rip the thread down too soon. There are quite a few people here outside of quazzle who would like to see it stay where it is.


The thread can be taken down and reinstated when quazzle places the ad.

It takes like 30 seconds and $2 to place an ad... it is not very hard.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

crisillo said:


> It's been 2 days, please comply or I will have to take the thread down.


something like this? http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=49512&cat=27


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

quazzle said:


> something like this? http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=49512&cat=27


Yes, however I think it would be good if you actually refer to your items for sale.

Also please add the link to your signature.

Cheers.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*That has got to be the best classified ad I have ever seen!*

For sale - a discussion
price - best offer

:thumbsup:

****


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

scar said:


> For sale - a discussion
> price - best offer
> 
> :thumbsup:
> ...


Well... ...any ad is better than no ad I suppose. I really would hate to see the thread go. FWIW, there really wasn't too much being sold as from the beginning it was made clear that the items discussed were a work in progress. Basically it WAS just a discussion. Quazzle was asking people for their feedback to products he was hoping to be able to produce and market. He did however post a link with items for sale, just not the stuff that most people were waiting for. Once he gets the parts, the item(s) designed the way he wants and the time to build, I think we will see some of this stuff displayed on his website and bought by people who are posting. At least that is my hope.

Now just how much of this stuff he WILL actually produce is anyone's guess.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

From what I think may have been his very first 
 post/thread 



quazzle said:


> hello,
> 
> we just thought it could be useful for bikes. it's just 12g very small and very compact 240 lumens headlight. Originally developed for hobbyists it also comes with integrated driver and overheating / battery overdischarging protection. Built-in constant current regulator stabilizes the luminous flux in wide ragne of input voltages (3.8-12V). There're many options available for it including different lenses, additinal cooler.
> 
> ...


And just two pull outs from this thread



quazzle said:


> guys, just one week to wait.I can't accept any payments before the testing not fully finished.
> The parts arrived so I need just one week to test new design and prepare the specs.





quazzle said:


> you can check the exact shipping cost at http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order (put something into the basket and hit checkout) shipping cost to the US is $10.4 by USPS air mail which normally takes 2-3 weeks. I also have an express delivery option but it's expensive.


I don't sell so no vested self interest in calling for the ad.
I do think those who do sell should do so from a level playing field.
Quazzle is still flaunting the rules with this supposed ad of his.
He has had a year to get his act together and post ads/sell products. 
Just not sure what he is up to. 
Regardless though the fact is that he is wanting/trying to sell. 
The $2.00 ad was long overdue, but he needs to make a real ad.
His threads have costs and sales information in it. Let's see real ads, real product (hopefully), or LOCK the threads down.
I do appreciate the mods letting this board sort of self police. Its a nice break from some of the other forums here. But it seems to be time to get very involved in the Quazzle situation.

Cordially

ODT...............


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I'll comply to either moderator's reasonable advice. As a last resort I'll keep not posting at MTBR at all. Anyway I'm quite thankful to the MTBR and its community for the chance to get confident in what I do. Historically I came from R/C hobbyists domain with a crazy idea to reuse my small lights here. Having no chance to be discussed it wouldn't be ever shaped in a project. I'll be interested in placing a graphics ad at MTBR after all EE and machining job is done. At this moment I have no complete off-shell product to supply, sorry if my ad looked flaunting.


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## Truth! (May 4, 2005)

This is an amazing thread- I love it! Quazzle is a bad ass- keep the tread- I love reading about the development!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

In my opinion this is a thread which helps quazzle developing his driver integrated lightning modules!
These were intentionally designed for RC hobbyist and now he tries to make them also useable for our bikelight needs.

This isn't really a sales thred - cause he cant sell something at the moment!
Especially this stuff most of us are waiting for!

But I also support the need of an mtbr add - with or without a photo! We all know what it is about and if there is someone new coming who doesn't know...

....it's quazzles loss (if his add doesn't explain anything)

Fact is: i would like this thread to keep open and quazzle do speed up his developement and make an add(if he hasn't already)


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## wriggle (May 12, 2010)

Hello everybody, I'm new here but I've been reading a lot on these forums and this thread. Love your lights quazzle. I'm a RC fan too.

I'm wondering if some of you, experience guys, could help me with a riding setup. I've just posted a question in this thread (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=617798) considering to use the quazzle L332 lights. Hope you could!!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh!!


L33 and L32 have shipped!


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I have completed the single for the L32 unit...more info HERE










Now to build a mount.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chelboed said:


> Now to build a mount.


Sweet....a set of these on the helmet could work. I suppose if you wanted to you could glue two together and make a double...just thinking.

More thinking....so far no one has attempted to build a mount that uses a ball joint. Such a mount would enable the user to dial the position of the light in perfectly. Glad to hear the quazzle modules are shipping.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> More thinking....so far no one has attempted to build a mount that uses a ball joint. Such a mount would enable the user to dial the position of the light in perfectly. Glad to hear the quazzle modules are shipping.


Allport did with some of his lights in the  Ledgend lights thread,  FYI.  
Very nice design in my opinion. :thumbsup:


----------



## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Stupid noob question; are these the brightest LEDs available? Brightest at the current form-factor (small), or brightest for the power usage?

I have no questions about how well these would work for a compact, lightweight lighting solution on the bike (I'd love to replace my clunky HID lamp); however, I use high-speed videography (4000-6000+ fps) for insect flight research and I'd love to replace the halogen lighting that typically bakes our insects. Several high-speed camera vendors have moved to LED lamps, but these solutions run up to $3K per lamp (18 LED array). With these Cree LEDs, I could source enough LEDs to assemble 3 lamps for 1/3 the cost of 1 lamp (the cost of accompanying electronics and housings is negligible).

Anyway, the question is, are the R5 LEDs on these assemblies the benchmark? What other viable options are brighter (even if not as compact)? Feel free to point me towards an existing thread or resource if it will provide me more education. Thanks!


----------



## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

A group of late model led's is bright. You will prolly need narrow reflectors to put the most light on the target. If you control the heat properly, you can put out a lot of light. Several XPG's with a reflector or several MCE's will really light things up. The led's can be purchased in different (color) temperatures also. Keeping the led's cool is the key to a long bright life.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Stupid noob question; are these the brightest LEDs available? Brightest at the current form-factor (small), or brightest for the power usage?
> 
> I have no questions about how well these would work for a compact, lightweight lighting solution on the bike (I'd love to replace my clunky HID lamp); however, I use high-speed videography (4000-6000+ fps) for insect flight research and I'd love to replace the halogen lighting that typically bakes our insects. Several high-speed camera vendors have moved to LED lamps, but these solutions run up to $3K per lamp (18 LED array). With these Cree LEDs, I could source enough LEDs to assemble 3 lamps for 1/3 the cost of 1 lamp (the cost of accompanying electronics and housings is negligible).
> 
> Anyway, the question is, are the R5 LEDs on these assemblies the benchmark? What other viable options are brighter (even if not as compact)? Feel free to point me towards an existing thread or resource if it will provide me more education. Thanks!


Do you know the lumen output or wattage for your current halogen video lights? That would give us an idea of the magnitude of light you need.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

And do make sure that the LED current is continuous (particularly in the low settings). You prolly don't want an unintentional strobe.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I use a constant current driver topology in my boards. That means the LEDs are driven with constant current (not pulsed) in all modes.


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

Quazzle, :thumbsup: on the great lights and effort you have put into them! 

When will your housing for the 33.2 be available?

How is 12X light design coming along?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

ozlongboarder said:


> When will your housing for the 33.2 be available?


thanks!  I anticipate it in June.



ozlongboarder said:


> How is 12X light design coming along?


June-July too. I'll start with the 12x module, the housing will go next


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Quazzle,
Any updates on progrees of the MC version? 
Also, when will XPE versions be available for the standard (on/off) version?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> Any updates on progrees of the MC version?


it's a bit delaying. Next friday I hope to finish it. The good news - now I have all parts shipped.



jmitchell13 said:


> Also, when will XPE versions be available for the standard (on/off) version?


Next week. I'll also have a warmer XP-G R4 bins (4C, natural white).

to whom it may concern, I have finished with news subscription at lux-rc.com. So if anyone interested in receiving updates (1-2 times a month), please subscribe here
http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/contacts


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Subscribed!  

Yehaaa 12up will really burn the trails! which board diameter are you thinking of? 
going to be huge? :nono: 
Which optics are available for this 12up?  

Probably a 7up would give a nice sweet and compact light engine :eekster: 
Optics already available...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

odtexas said:


> Allport did with some of his lights in the  Ledgend lights thread,  FYI.
> Very nice design in my opinion. :thumbsup:


Doh! I completely forgot about that one. Yes, a beautiful build....now if I only had Machinist skills and tools...


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

quazzle said:


> I use a constant current driver topology in my boards. That means the LEDs are driven with constant current (not pulsed) in all modes.


Thanks Q - way to go. I appreciate not having the strobe effect on the spokes.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

MtbMacgyver said:


> Do you know the lumen output or wattage for your current halogen video lights? That would give us an idea of the magnitude of light you need.


It varies depending on the prep; I've gotten away with a single 50w lamp at 3 feet from the target (frame rates at the lower end of the range I listed)) and, conversely, also used 300-600 watts of lighting mounted about 10 feet from the target...these were relatively inefficient and had no reflector to speak of; I could have used less lighting mounted closer, but the subject would've cooked.

One of the 19-LED lamps that is on the market is advertised to produce 60K LUX at 1 foot, 6K LUX at 5 feet. I'm not sure how I might convert this rating into something comparable to the lumens rating for LEDs I've seen. I've recently demo'd this lamp and it works...but I'd also be interested in constructing something more powerful, if by using more powerful LEDs, or more LEDs.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> Doh! I completely forgot about that one. Yes, a beautiful build....now if I only had Machinist skills and tools...


Just have someone build you one and you can wire it.

In all actuality, a ball mount for helmet is pretty OTT. There's no reason for a lateral pivot b/c you want the light aiming forward where your eyes are. A slight vertical hinge is nice to be able to adjust "the first time" but as soon as you get it pointed where your vision is...there's no reason to ever mess widdit again. L.R.U.D. is very helpful however as a bar mount lamp if you're not mounting near the stem area.


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## wriggle (May 12, 2010)

Guys, talking about lumens, why a brand light offer less lumens than a home made one??
Like this 3 XPG for example, quazzle says it's about 1100lm and a Wilma 7 with one more XPG says the same.. sorry for the newbie question, but I'm little confused. 

Thks..


----------



## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> It varies depending on the prep; I've gotten away with a single 50w lamp at 3 feet from the target (frame rates at the lower end of the range I listed)) and, conversely, also used 300-600 watts of lighting mounted about 10 feet from the target...these were relatively inefficient and had no reflector to speak of; I could have used less lighting mounted closer, but the subject would've cooked.
> 
> One of the 19-LED lamps that is on the market is advertised to produce 60K LUX at 1 foot, 6K LUX at 5 feet. I'm not sure how I might convert this rating into something comparable to the lumens rating for LEDs I've seen. I've recently demo'd this lamp and it works...but I'd also be interested in constructing something more powerful, if by using more powerful LEDs, or more LEDs.


Go look at this thread. It has lux readings for various led / optic combos at 68 inches which is pretty close to 6ft. 3 XPGs with LXP-RS optics will give you 6k+ LUX at 6ft. The optic is really key here. The carclo 20mm triple that's used on the module in this thread isn't very good at focusing the light to give high lux values.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=604616

This is a pretty interesting discussion. Probably deserves it's own thread. 
-


----------



## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

chelboed said:


> A slight vertical hinge is nice to be able to adjust "the first time" but as soon as you get it pointed where your vision is...there's no reason to ever mess widdit again.


That's really only true if you ride where the pitch of the terrain is mild. If you ride in the mountains with long steep climbs and descents. It's really nice to change the angle of the light between climbing and decending.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

wriggle said:


> Guys, talking about lumens, why a brand light offer less lumens than a home made one??
> Like this 3 XPG for example, quazzle says it's about 1100lm and a Wilma 7 with one more XPG says the same.. sorry for the newbie question, but I'm little confused.
> 
> Thks..


That's because most of the lumen ratings you see people quoting here for DIY lights are theoretical calculations as opposes to actual measured real world values. They don't always really take into account all the losses that happen in the real world. To really predict the lumen output, you have to take into account actual die temp, optical efficiency, and not assume your LEDs put the max for the bin rating as opposed to the min.

To be fair, you have to realize that some big names don't always quote real values either.


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

wriggle said:


> Guys, talking about lumens, why a brand light offer less lumens than a home made one??
> Like this 3 XPG for example, quazzle says it's about 1100lm and a Wilma 7 with one more XPG says the same.. sorry for the newbie question, but I'm little confused.
> Thks..


I have no idea which bins used by Wilma. My estimate is fully theoretical based on CREE's AVERAGE ratings for XP-G R5 which I use. Let's see how it goes.
According to CREE's B&L datasheet R5 is rated to produce 139-148 lumens @350mA. 
To be more realistic let's take the average - (139+148)/2 = 143.5 LM. 
According to latest CREE XP-G datasheet the LED flux at 1.1A is 270%, i.e. 143.5 * 2.7 = 387.45 LM. 
3 up is 3 * 387.45 = 1162.35 LM.
The 20mm carclo optics efficiency is 88.7%, so the output is 1162.35*0.887 = 1031 LM.

Ok, it's not truly 1100lm and I didn't take into account the derating caused by heat. I'll publish the actual lumenous flux as soon as I have the integrating sphere. I hope CREE will release S2 before I get the sphere


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Not to take away from the thread again, (actually I don't care this time...I'm proud of my work) but I'm done with the single and working on another small triple with a snap ring retainer instead of the facecap:

























































The 22.2mm triple (walls are 1mm thick and the snap ring section is only 0.5mm (yikes!)


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

chelboed said:


> Not to take away from the thread again, (actually I don't care this time...I'm proud of my work) but I'm done with the single and working on another small triple with a snap ring retainer instead of the facecap:


I wouldn't worry Chelboeld, this is no longer a thread but a forum in its own right, now we're talking about ultra high speed videography 

BTW, I love the designs but must say I don't like the finish on the surface of the baby. Are you going to anodise it with the others or is that it done?


----------



## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Hey? I see one with an optic in place. Do you have one working?

Come on, beam shots!!!! We've seen enough of your handy work to be impressed, but now its time to start taking some working shots.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> A slight vertical hinge is nice to be able to adjust "the first time" but as soon as you get it pointed where your vision is...there's no reason to ever mess widdit again.


I'll disagree with that. I usually tweak the vertical setting on my helmet light during the ride. As I get tired I find I tend to let my head drop and have to look more upward to see down the trail.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> I'll disagree with that. I usually tweak the vertical setting on my helmet light during the ride. As I get tired I find I tend to let my head drop and have to look more upward to see down the trail.


For us roadies riding in the drops or hoods means different angles too.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> *The 20mm carclo optics efficiency is 88.7%, so the output is 1162.35*0.887 = 1031 LM.*
> 
> Ok, it's not truly 1100lm and I didn't take into account the derating caused by heat. I'll publish the actual lumenous flux as soon as I have the integrating sphere. I hope CREE will release S2 before I get the sphere


Okay, so the optic is 88.7% efficient from LED to outside _BUT_....only 60% ( my estimate ) of the emmitted light goes where you want (*need) it. ( *That is of course unless you like having light shining up into the tree tops and far off to the sides of the trail ) The throw with these optics suck big time. The MtbMacgyver comparisons are spot on.



Vancbiker said:


> I'll disagree with that. I usually tweak the vertical setting on my helmet light during the ride. *As I get tired I find I tend to let my head drop and have to look more upward to see down the trail.*


Yep...ditto that.


----------



## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

As emu26 says .... lovely designs but the finish on the single looks odd in the photos, I guess it might look better in the flesh.

Something you might have considered, how about an upturned curve or V on the bottom of the angle bracket to match the helmet spar? It might make the light sit ultra stable on the helmet. 

Nice work anyway chelboed, an inspiration to others as to what can be achieved and a great source for ideas in different parts of a build.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

The finish on the single was done by request. The square one was like that before I sanded it.

Optics in the big hex are from LedSupply. Just got 'em in there to get a visual. You'll notice that they're crooked and diffused. I'll be using clear narrow in that one.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Ok, I've just finished reading the whole thread and looked at the datasheets on his site and what I've found that I get confused very easily when electronics talk comes up!! Using the 33.2MC version I should be able to use a remote switch and have low/med/high and pretty much off "very low" drain??? If so will a standard monetary swith work for this? Thanks.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Sending these out to be anodized tomorrow!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chelboed said:


> Sending these out to be anodized tomorrow!


I think it's safe to say at this point that the HEX look is in. :thumbsup: Do you plan on selling any of these or is this just for hobby?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Everything has a price


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

bncrshr77 said:


> Ok, I've just finished reading the whole thread and looked at the datasheets on his site and what I've found that I get confused very easily when electronics talk comes up!! Using the 33.2MC version I should be able to use a remote switch and have low/med/high and pretty much off "very low" drain??? If so will a standard monetary swith work for this? Thanks.


If you get an accurate answer to all of these questions, you'll be the first one.

Several of us have been asking these very questions, and others for weeks now and are still waiting firm answers :madman:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bncrshr77 said:


> Ok, I've just finished reading the whole thread and looked at the datasheets on his site and what I've found that I get confused very easily when electronics talk comes up!! Using the 33.2MC version I should be able to use a remote switch and have low/med/high and pretty much off "very low" drain??? If so will a standard monetary swith work for this? Thanks.


After asking this same question several time in this thread, I emailed Q directly.
Here's his reply:


> After lots of discussions I ended up with the following logic for MC:
> The light always starts with 100% (no memory). 3 modes cycle by short power cutoff, HIGH -> MID (30%) -> LOW (5%) -> MID -> HIGH. The power levels for MID (30%) and LOW (5%) are predefined and cannot be changed here. The module also has an input for N/C switch. The switch logic is different. It simply toggles between 100% and LOW settings. It makes the switching back to 100% simple and fast - just in 1 click. But the LOW rating can be adjusted here by press-and-hold the button.


I've been on the fence about getting the simple 33.2 or holding out for the MC version. After reading what Q emailed me I am planning to hold out for the MC version. I will utilize the enternal switch input to toggle from high to low.

To answer your question directly... Yes, a simple momentary switch will work.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

jmitchell13 said:


> After asking this same question several time in this thread, I emailed Q directly.
> Here's his reply:
> 
> I've been on the fence about getting the simple 33.2 or holding out for the MC version. After reading what Q emailed me I am planning to hold out for the MC version. I will utilize the enternal switch input to toggle from high to low.
> ...


Thanks for the answers. Just a bit more confusion to clear up!! Ok, I know now that an external monetary switch will control High/Low.....How do you control the low/med/high/med/low?? Sorry for the confusion..


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

> After lots of discussions I ended up with the following logic for MC:
> The light always starts with 100% (no memory). 3 modes cycle by short power cutoff, HIGH -> MID (30%) -> LOW (5%) -> MID -> HIGH. The power levels for MID (30%) and LOW (5%) are predefined and cannot be changed here. The module also has an input for N/C switch. The switch logic is different. It simply toggles between 100% and LOW settings. It makes the switching back to 100% simple and fast - just in 1 click. But the LOW rating can be adjusted here by press-and-hold the button.


Does N/C switch mean normally closed?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

N/C means normally off


----------



## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

> [The module also has an input for N/C switch. The switch logic is different. It simply toggles between 100% and LOW settings. It makes the switching back to 100% simple and fast - just in 1 click. But the LOW rating can be adjusted here by press-and-hold the button.


What percentage/power level would low start and and by holding the button would the level increase or decrease? If it increased could I increase it to a mid-range power level? Thanks! If so it's awesome!


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

FOUR HUNDRED AND NINETY SIX POSTS AND NO PROPER BEAMSHOTS
:incazzato: :incazzato: :incazzato: :incazzato: :incazzato: :incazzato: 


except for trouties. :thumbsup:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

can this be considered as a beamshot?








(I have it at lux-rc.com)

Anyway, concerning the optics and LEDs there's nothing new here. It's a STANDARD 20mm CARCLO and STANDARD 3x XP-G/XP-E. There's a lot of nice beamshots of this combo on this forum


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

and still no answer about using a common switch to control 2 of the MC mode versions


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

emu26 said:


> and still no answer about using a common switch to control 2 of the MC mode versions


here it is - #220 http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6785682&postcount=220

--------------------------

there's an idea to boost L332 by driving it @ 1.5A.

The calculated luminous flux should be expected at 1400 LM, the power rating 16W and the minimal voltage at 6-6.5V. The advantage - more lumens for the same money. But the voltage range will be more narrow.


----------



## wriggle (May 12, 2010)

Now this makes sense to me..


MtbMacgyver said:


> That's because most of the lumen ratings you see people quoting here for DIY lights are theoretical calculations as opposes to actual measured real world values. They don't always really take into account all the losses that happen in the real world. To really predict the lumen output, you have to take into account actual die temp, optical efficiency, and not assume your LEDs put the max for the bin rating as opposed to the min.


Like Magicshine.. ops, I wrote it, sorry! 


MtbMacgyver said:


> To be fair, you have to realize that some big names don't always quote real values either.


I'm curious which bin Wilma uses too. Thks for the theorical explanation, cristal clear! :thumbsup:


quazzle said:


> I have no idea which bins used by Wilma. My estimate is fully theoretical based on CREE's AVERAGE ratings for XP-G R5 which I use. Let's see how it goes.
> According to CREE's B&L datasheet R5 is rated to produce 139-148 lumens @350mA.
> To be more realistic let's take the average - (139+148)/2 = 143.5 LM.
> According to latest CREE XP-G datasheet the LED flux at 1.1A is 270%, i.e. 143.5 * 2.7 = 387.45 LM.
> ...


So are you thinking to change the L332 to S2 as soon as it becomes available?


quazzle said:


> Ok, it's not truly 1100lm and I didn't take into account the derating caused by heat. I'll publish the actual lumenous flux as soon as I have the integrating sphere. I hope CREE will release S2 before I get the sphere


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> sorry if I missed your question, There are two possible ways how you can share one button between two boards.
> 
> 2) Technically you can use one wired button if only both boards are connected to the supply in parallel (share the same GND level). This way you can short both BTN ports to the GND by a single button. Let me check how it works in practice.


For non electronically based users this is the better way and I am still waiting for you to check


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

and if I understand what you have said to Jmitchel in post #493 correctly

_After lots of discussions I ended up with the following logic for MC:
The light always starts with 100% (no memory). 3 modes cycle by short power cutoff, HIGH -> MID (30%) -> LOW (5%) -> MID -> HIGH. The power levels for MID (30%) and LOW (5%) are predefined and cannot be changed here. The module also has an input for N/C switch. The switch logic is different. It simply toggles between 100% and LOW settings. It makes the switching back to 100% simple and fast - just in 1 click. But the LOW rating can be adjusted here by press-and-hold the button._

then if I wire two boards in parrallel with one switch controlling the modes on both boards then I will simply have a hi (full) and a low (which can be set by press and hold to a level I like). Is that correct? If so then that sounds fantastic and exactly what I would be looking for, I don't much like the sound of having to toggle from mid to low to mid to get back to hi


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I'll be really sad to see this one go b/c it's by far my favorite, but it's going to a generous home. I think I've got it down to a rough science as far as churning out Hex hosts.

Pertaining to the thread and DIY'ers:

Anyone building a mount...this one is pretty easy. Just use a piece of 6061 I-Beam and cut off one leg. Make it around 15-20mm deep/long and drill two holes for the mounting ring to go into. File / mill down the material above the holes until you reach them and you're golden! This one sold before I could even anodize it.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Does the oring press into your head? I can see that getting quite uncomfortable after a couple minutes.


chelboed said:


>


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> Does the oring press into your head? I can see that getting quite uncomfortable after a couple minutes.


Nope


----------



## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> there's an idea to boost L332 by driving it @ 1.5A.
> 
> The calculated luminous flux should be expected at 1400 LM, the power rating 16W and the minimal voltage at 6-6.5V. The advantage - more lumens for the same money. But the voltage range will be more narrow.


So will you be offering this? If so, then that is the one I'll go for. I was planning to use a 7.4v Lithium Polymer 4h/a battery to run two L332 in parallel, and switched individually so I can use one for riding up and along, and fire up the 2nd for going down. Based on the comments on the optics, I'm keen to shoot for maximum lumens.

b.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

quazzle said:


> there's an idea to boost L332 by driving it @ 1.5A.
> 
> The calculated luminous flux should be expected at 1400 LM, the power rating 16W and the minimal voltage at 6-6.5V. The advantage - more lumens for the same money. But the voltage range will be more narrow.


I'm not sure this would be a good thing to do with a 20mm triple. Trying to get rid of the heat is hard enough already. It might work better with a 35mm setup with the leds spread out a little bit further...However, if it can handle the heat, I would LOVE to see the beam pattern put out by an over-driven XP-E R-3 20mm triple. :yesnod: ( Troutie, you ever try to overdrive a 20mm XP-E triple?....please say yes or that you will try it....:yesnod: )


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I agree...the minimal gain would be visually difficult to appreciate...yet the heat and runtime would suffer.


----------



## fish.man (May 26, 2009)

*enough area ?*



jmitchell13 said:


> Does the oring press into your head? I can see that getting quite uncomfortable after a couple minutes.


does this design offer enough surface area to cool the 3 xpg's sufficiently.

even at standstill for a period of time, or should one add more area for that.

With the design as it is, there is no dimming so the leds will burn on full the whole time.

Will it not overheat when stopping for directions or a break with your mates or even for a traffic light for the roadies ?


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Goo LAWD!

How many times have we covered that in this thread, LOL.

According to the sources around here, somewhere around 9 sq inches of surface area is adequate to keep the light at a decent operating temp. 

The light is not being driven on "full"...it's being driven at 1.1A, not 1.5A.
The light housing has 13.5 sq inches of surface area.
Standing still for an extended period of time is probably not the brightest idea...but how many of you stand still talking to your buds with 1100 lumens blazing in their faces while you chat?
I don't think a stop light for a roadie will be an issue...unless it's an ungodly long light.

To top it off...I haven't recieved my light engine yet to be able to test it so your guess is almost as good as mine:crazy:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> would LOVE to see the beam pattern put out by an over-driven XP-E R-3 20mm triple. :yesnod: ( Troutie, you ever try to overdrive a 20mm XP-E triple?....please say yes or that you will try it....:yesnod: )


I have not tried yet but may do soon I do have a an XPE R3 Triple 20 mm to playaround with .

For what it is worth I have my doubts about Chelboed`s case handling the heat and am waiting for his feedback when the leds arrive


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Great...

Why ya gotta say that now, trout? I needed that feedback before I tried to stay well within the parameters that were laid out. (not blaming you...just frustrated)


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Great...
> 
> Why ya gotta say that now, trout? I needed that feedback before I tried to stay well within the parameters that were laid out. (not blaming you...just frustrated)


Dont worry too much just keep moving 
one thing that hits me is the slots may have dead air spots in them 
also remove the plastic washer if poss to get some heat to the mount may be another option .

Its still a nice project though and the testing is part of the fun


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Yeah...I see what you're saying. How's the air going to take a sharp right when I'm moving forward. I have an aluminum spacer, but it sorta prohibits the adjustment while you ride b/c it loosens the screw a bit. It works well if you just set the vertical pivot and tighten it though. Would def help cool it. Maybe I'll do that with a little thermal paste.


I also have a square version in the back of my mind with "active cooling". I think I can fit the thermostat and voltage regulator on the unit, but I'm considering doing an "fan always on" version with the voltage regulator shrinkwrapped into the power cord. Then I won't lose any surface area. I can recess the fan slightly and keep it all koo.

I am going to do some thorough testing on the orig hex light in a week or two when my boards get here and see what the consensus is.


I know I've asked this of a few people, but there seems to be some conflicting opinions regarding normal operating temperatures.

I've heard that no more than 50C is a must. I've heard 60-80C is just fine and considered "normal operating temps". I had my Magicshine at 68C the other day and it worked fine, but I don't expect the circuitry in that thang to last long at those temps.




What's the "public consensus" for good temps for no long term damage considering the max on this emitter is 150C?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> What's the "public consensus" for good temps for no long term damage considering the max on this emitter is 150C?


Your light output decreases as the temp rises. I am not bothered if my microlight gets to ~60C. My other lights, using the flex series drivers are set to dim at 50C. They both do that after standing still for 5-7 minutes on high. They never get that warm on low while standing still even in 20C ambient. Using 2 square inches area per watt of LED power works well to size a housing that will keep things easily below 50C while moving at a slow pace in 7-10C ambient temps.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> Using 2 square inches area per watt of LED power works well to size a housing that will keep things easily below 50C while moving at a slow pace in 7-10C ambient temps.


Going by that rule, (which sounds good)...you may as well go with a 35mm or even bigger and get some more efficient optics / reflectors to make the most of the light output.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Going by that rule, (which sounds good)...you may as well go with a 35mm or even bigger and get some more efficient optics / reflectors to make the most of the light output.


......and the extra aluminium in the housing.

I too worry about the direction of your slots but then again it could turn out to be fine, you'll soon find out once it's up and running.

I did some tests ages ago and found that light output drops quite a bit once the housing temp gets beyond 50 c though the LEDs and electronics will keep going well above that you'll be burning juice for nothing.

I have managed to melt an optic, nothing died but I consider it my first failure in many light builds.

I will chop up the LED board into a couple of triples, maybe.

Heat is our enemy.

Pic shows center optic has melted, that's why it looks extra green.

Good luck


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Yes, I've always worked on 2 square inches per watt, that was the general consensus when I started building several years ago.

anyway Chelboed, don't worry about. If the housings don't cope with the heat of the triples at 1.1A then just use them for a single XM LED with a decent 20mm optic when they become available and build a new housing for Quazzles triple then


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

emu26 said:


> Yes, I've always worked on 2 square inches per watt, that was the general consensus when I started building several years ago.
> 
> anyway Chelboed, don't worry about. If the housings don't cope with the heat of the triples at 1.1A then just use them for a single XM LED with a decent 20mm optic when they become available and build a new housing for Quazzles triple then


Yeah man...good call.

Yo Yeti...U think that circumferential fins would be better next time? I was thinking that it's a worse design b/c you'd have to have a good side-wind to blow air that direction...I still think that longitudinal fins would work better if I could direct that air "down into" the fins.

I'm still gonna give it a go and see what kind of temps I get. I got one of those IR thermometer thingys to check it with.

I started working on a new square design tonight. It's gonna have a Sunon 25mm x 6mm fan attached to the hiney. It's freakin' hard to find a way to chuck up 1" square bar into a 3-jaw lathe:madman:

It's silly for me to discount this design so soon...especially since I sent the 1st hex, 2nd (square), and the mini off to be anodized tonight. I'm still hopeful. Heck man...if it get's "kinda" warm...I could get a triple from cutter and run them at 700mA with an external hipflex (that the right one?)


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Dont feel low Ed you may prove it works fine .and it would with an aluminium bar mount 
you have gone with a small case for helmet use and could redesign the mount to make use of the extra metal.

the down side is you have a led and driver set up which is not adjustable and that will hopefully alter when Quaz gets the controlable one done .


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Yo Yeti...U think that circumferential fins would be better next time? I was thinking that it's a worse design b/c you'd have to have a good side-wind to blow air that direction...I still think that longitudinal fins would work better if I could direct that air "down into" the fins.


The longitudinal fins are definitely better than the others if the longitudinal fins are on the outside (surface) around the body!

Like they would be on Yeti's design when relocating them by 90° !
If the fins are too deep or go through the whole housing(from one side to the other) you my get some areas with insufficiant airflow thus won't help you cool your light!

But I think that in your designs the longitudinal fins are adequate and not too deep! 

Of course in my opinion the light should be dimmed down when standing still! 

I would also design a light to stay cool when moving and not for standing still!! :thumbsup:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Chelboed, your light will work fine IMO. It will get hot if it is left on high while stopped. My first MC-E light has ~20 sq. inches total area with fins that are too thick and grooves too narrow (1mm wide grooves) for optimum cooling. It will stay just under 50C while being handheld and walking through my back woods in 7-9C air temps. A slightly faster pace with your light should be enough to keep it at a similar temp.


Edit: incorrect spelling


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

It's all good. I've had an absolute blast so far and can't wait to do some serious testing!! Woohoo!! My only mistake was that I had sold a housing to a forum member w/o testing it. I know everything will fit...it's just the heat issue. I offered to give a full refund and keep it until I tested it, but he said he's going to wait for the Mode Ctrl version of the board anyways...so no biggie. So it's been shipped.

My Plan B that I started last night will incorporate the afformentioned 25x25x6mm cooling fan flush mounted to the back as well as a 50c Thermostat attached to the bottom...hopefully integrated into the mount against the housing. (in the spirit of Wall-E and Rubix)

I'm hoping to be able to switch the order of the thermostat and voltage regulator though b/c I want to heat-shrink the VReg into the power cable and run the extra "+" leg out to the Thermo and into the cooling fan.



Incidentally...do I even need a voltage regulator on a 5Vdc fan with a 7.4v LiIon battery pack? Can't I just slightly over-volt the thing?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

chelboed,
don't worry to much.
you are not going to be running 7 LEDs at full wack. 

My optic melted after months and months of abuse. ( used it to light the workshop for hours on end between rides) My fins were actually going in both directions.... well sort of and I think that the layout of the 7up LED board meant that the center one will always be hotter than the others.

It still works but the driver went nuts for a few days, I will just avoid building a light with an LED trapped in the middle surrounded by other hot LEDs. Good news is the center LED now has a nice smooth beam.

I always find the direction of fins a funny thing, very important on a fixed non moving part such as in a PC with a fan blowing air in one direction.

Let’s say you have a bar mounted light and are riding into a head wind, what do you do when you turn left, turn the fins around? On a bike we are changing direction a lot and so is the wind, just think how often you look from left to right whilst using a helmet light.

Just avoid pockets that can trap hot air as it will want to rise when you are not moving.

But then again, what do I know? I’ve gone and melted me light.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

I am with YetiBetty, don't loose any sleep over this

You can spend all your time with a calculator, but the real world is the only real test.
"What if" scenarios always make me laugh.

I agree you have to pay attention to case design, but yours looks great from here.

There is air moving on a bike and the operator hopefully has enough common sense to operate a LED light correctly.

My P7 Marwi lights have zero fins and a smooth aluminum black casing.
Not one has ever burned out

Calculate that!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

i have put here a small summary of this thread
http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L33_dressed_up


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

quazzle said:


> i have put here a small summary of this thread
> http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L33_dressed_up


I'll shoot ya an email when I get mine back from the anodizer...should be a week or two.:thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

El34 said:


> I am with YetiBetty, don't loose any sleep over this
> 
> You can spend all your time with a calculator, but the real world is the only real test.
> "What if" scenarios always make me laugh.
> ...


Yeah Doug...I've had your Marwi light in the back of my mind during this ordeal...as well as bshallards and the trout-bar-light. Every time I questioned heat, I looked at trout's and chuckled...though...his is probably one of the most efficient b/c of the roughly 130 sq inches of "Easton" heatsink

I'm much more interested in a helmet mount design as a primary and possibly bringing in the bar mount as a secondary.

No sense in hashing this about...over and over...just need to get some real R&D done when they arrive!


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Yeah Doug...I've had your Marwi light in the back of my mind during this ordeal...as well as bshallards and the trout-bar-light. Every time I questioned heat, I looked at trout's and chuckled...though...his is probably one of the most efficient b/c of the roughly 130 sq inches of "Easton" heatsink
> 
> I'm much more interested in a helmet mount design as a primary and possibly bringing in the bar mount as a secondary.
> 
> No sense in hashing this about...over and over...just need to get some real R&D done when they arrive!


Yea man, stop overthinking it! You put ton of work into your lights and the quality is top notch. Once you get these working, use them a bit you'll start thinking about improvments for your next light.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

El34 said:


> I am with YetiBetty, don't loose any sleep over this...
> My P7 Marwi lights have zero fins and a smooth aluminum black casing.
> Not one has ever burned out. Calculate that!


+1

Triple XPG's at 1 A in a Bullet Marwi housing (from EL34) barely get my light to electric blanket toasty at a stop light. I only shut it down/drop power if I will be stopped for a while. It will be warmer on a hot summer day of 100 * F or more, maybe too hot to touch, but not 50 C. No fins, and only 7 square inches for 10 watts (8 of heat). BUT air flow around the light is unrestricted in any way. EL34 is right: there is a reason why we test theory in the real world.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Hey, I'm no engineer, but I am pretty good at mechanics.  

Anywho, in my brain, the very thin skinned aluminum shells seem to work the same way any thin aluminum sheet does.

Using tin foil as one extreme. You can pull a flat sheet of tin foil out of a fire and hold it in your hand. It sheds the heat very quickly.

At the other end of the scale is a billet of aluminum. It soaks up the heat and holds it for way longer. 

Tall Thin cooling fins like on a CPU heat sink shed the heat quickly, but they also have the advantage of lots of air being forced between the fins.

On the Marwi lights, I designed the P7 heat sink so that it would conduct the heat to the outer shell and then the thin aluminum shell can take it from there.

Seems to be working rather well so far.

I am looking forwrd to dropping one of Quazzles 33.2's into a Marwi and see how that goes.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

BrianMc said:


> It will be warmer on a hot summer day


Hahaha...I've heard this mentioned a few times...I'm a MTB'er...who needs a light in the day?:thumbsup: I haven't ridden in too many 100 deg nights.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

here is a little time lapse heat test on a triple XPE R3 running at 1 amp 
in a small housing My machinist mate brought round today .

ambient 24 degrees damn warm for the UK dead still air upto 13 minutes the switched on the desk fan .
I have no idea yet on surface area but it is tiny ish.



got another one coming soon with the leds at 1.5 amps

Here it is


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

and a beam shot in the woods of the XPE R3 triple @ 1 amp 
sorry Cat did not get the Hipflex wired up to do 1.4 amps , will do later


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

That looks freakin' gnar...but just may be a tad too tight for shredding singletrack. (IMO) Should be interesting to see that with a "G" on the bars.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Interesting one this*

Just perusing the pics and drinking a glass of wine and this hit me for a comparison .
take pic 1 at the lowest temp and the pic at the highest and see if they differ in brightness .



well even in my booze fuddled stuper there is quite a difference


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

It certainly is interesting! I had no visual idea how much difference it makes even though I'd read in loads of threads about the loss of light due to heat. Your efforts above show it nicely. Another Troutie triumph! Thanks for showing.

I hope you don't mind the impertinence, but I had a little play with your photos to create a "Blink" test, because I find the "bright" changeover between one image to the other a little hard to show the full differences in the two images. My sluggish mind finds these two below easier to see the difference. (If you think I'm overstepping the mark here, I'll remove them with apologies, but I hope you and everyone else likes them.)

1 Amp test first


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

and the 1.5Amp test .....
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## Alekz-Od (Jan 28, 2008)

Yes, there is a slight decrease in brightness when heated.
I processed the same pictures that were visible overexposure.
P.S. While I was writing, Bobblehat ahead of me.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks fella`s I certainly dont mind at all really shows it nicely 

by the way how did you do it for future ref


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

Thanks Troutie.

This might not be very helpful ......but I use a very early version of JASC Animation Shop (1.00) that used to be given away years ago with old versions of Paint Shop Pro on magazine cover discs ..... back in the good old Win95 days .... He! He! Remember that! Still good now on XP. It's so simple to use with the wizard that I've never upgraded it (like XP!)!

Just tell the wizard the size (original or X * Y pixels), duration of each image in 1/100ths of a sec, loop or play once, add as many images to the set as required and press GO!

You can even adjust the quality of the final saved GIF animation as you would with a JPEG to alter for quality or small file size.

The trick with any of these animations is fixed manual exposure to keep the relative brightness correct between images and a rock steady scene ..... i.e. tripod, no zoom, no moving camera etc. Your shots were a doddle to do coz you already know all that! Even if the hot spots are burnt out, other areas of the scene provide useful comparisons ....take a look at the bottom righthand side of the monitor bezel for example.

I've not tried it myself, but there seems to be a freebie equivalent, an updated version of what I'm using here , might be worth a look? (Mods tell me if it's not OK to post that.) Bet there are other similar ones too. PM me if you want more info on the CD for the version I'm using, I could brush the dust off it


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

My tests from a while back with a light meter show that light output takes a plunge at 49c

These pics are great at showing how our eyes get used to the reduction in light.


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## Alekz-Od (Jan 28, 2008)

troutie-mtb, I reduced gamma and increased brightness.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

This was just sent to me from the ano guy...I'll take better pic's when I get them next week. Appears there's a finish flaw on the Orig. Hex light. I knew it was there....I just thought it was a flaw that would be taken care of with the ano. I should have hit it with some more sandpaper prior to sending it.

My bad...I'll be keeping it for my self most likely anyhoo...either way, I'm excited about the blue.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks Bobblehat.
I looked at Trouties first two pics and thought my eyes must be really bad because I couldn't see much difference, and I hadn't been drinking. In the ones you've posted the difference is very noticeable, especially if you look at the venetian blind.

Nice work guys, thanks for sharing.


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## Bobblehat (Dec 1, 2007)

Strangely Emu, the venetian blinds get brighter as the temp goes up in the 1A test. It's almost like a light was switched on behind the blinds during the test! I like the area just to the right of the Temp meter as we view it .... the bottom part of the monitor bezel .... illuminated by reflected light ...not burnt out and shows the difference really well although subjectively of course.

Lovely blue Chelboed. I've done a bit of home ano myself ... and found that ano hides nothing ... nope ...it exaggerates the problems! Can't see anything disastrous in that shot though? I'd be well chuffed!


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> This was just sent to me from the ano guy...I'll take better pic's when I get them next week. Appears there's a finish flaw on the Orig. Hex light. I knew it was there....I just thought it was a flaw that would be taken care of with the ano. I should have hit it with some more sandpaper prior to sending it.


Yup, ano doesn't hide anything. The best thing I've found is to bead blast the parts to a nice even finish. Of course you need to have a bead blaster available though.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Hahaha...I've heard this mentioned a few times...I'm a MTB'er...who needs a light in the day?:thumbsup: I haven't ridden in too many 100 deg nights.


Commuting can be a b***ch. I get pulled out in front of in my vehicles and I have run lights in the day on them since 1973. So I have a bar light on steady at half power and the helmet flashing on full. Seems to help. Especially aiming that focused high beam in the face of someone who is about to pull out. My deadly Clint Eastwood squint, probably helps, too.  Working on a better tail light.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

chelboed said:


> Appears there's a finish flaw on the Orig. Hex light. /QUOTE]
> 
> Flaw, I don't see no stinkin' flaw. A bit of character, maybe, but no flaw. .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Damn right there is a finnish flaw in all those cases
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no round bottoms


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


>


Finally a decent beamshot in this thread.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Bobblehat said:


> Strangely Emu, the venetian blinds get brighter as the temp goes up in the 1A test. It's almost like a light was switched on behind the blinds during the test!


:idea: :idea: :idea: 
Too funny, I really do need to get my eyes checked

BTW Chris, thanks for posting that finnished pic, no matter how many times I see it I always get a smile on my face.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Almost done:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Almost done  Aren't you waiting for the most important part, still?  

Looking good, as is the active cooling version :thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Yah...should be here between Wednesday and...umm...next Wednesday. Shipped on the 12th.

I'm gonna try to order an XP-E version for the Hex, I think. I'll prob. to the XP-G in the bar mounted light.

I'm really jazzed about the mini with the 20mm optics though.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Has the mode version or just the "simple" triple shipped?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Single mode.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Girls need accesories to complete their outfits


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Nice!!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

My wife just told me I got a package today from Moscow.


Wonder what that could me...hmm...


(15days to Kansas, quazzle...FYI)


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Got home and opened my package...


Dadgum Serge! 20.00mm exactly! Bravo!

I don't get my connectors or chargers until tomorrow, so I prob. won't get anything fired up until at least then.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

El34 said:


> Girls need accesories to complete their outfits


But where is she going to put the bar mount?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm hoping to send this one packin' so I can order a few more boards and keep building. This is fun!









Had to notch out the Carclo single 20 to clear the electronical-thingy-ma-jigg. (FET maybe?)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I do recommend using 10mm optics with L312 engine


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Any updates on the availability of the 332 MC version?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

332MC is done. I'm updating datasheet now. I have no inductors in stock, they should arrive on June 10.


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## bmn (Apr 26, 2010)

Anybody tried putting one of these into a MagicShine housing? Size-wise I'm assuming it will fit but will it sit too far back in the housing? Would the MagicShine have enough surface area too cool it?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> 332MC is done. I'm updating datasheet now. I have no inductors in stock, they should arrive on June 10.


Thats great to hear Quazzle.

So now that you have some boards made to test etc do you have answer to post # 503?

Really keen to find out one way or the other


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Well...I'm not totally unimpressed with the Carclo 20. It gets the jobbie-job done.

Pic's HERE


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm running a stress test for 332, today is the third day.

It's known that a boost driver is loaded more heavily at low voltages. So I'm running it at 5.5V.I also use a preheater to keep the heat sink temperature steady at 100C. In such conditions the IC and LEDs are exposed to 120-140C


















Updated here -> https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/the_lab


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

*chelboed*
Nice work, nice housings!
Now we're waiting for beamshots :yesnod:


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## TOU93 (Dec 31, 2009)

Quazzle, When are you due to have some more L332 done? When i got to checkout on your site it says they are in the production que?

Thanks.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Done with the square one. Quazzle...I dunno what you had intended for wire diameter, but getting wires between the board and optics in a 20mm hole is a bit tight! I'm diggin the stress test though...very nice!

Square one:

















TrailTech in-line switch and connectors:









Batteryspace.com battery PCB with "fuel gauge":









Quickie back yard beam shots--
f4.0
ISO-100
Daylight
6.00sec

Reference [SSCP7 at 2.8amps]
About 12" to the right of the camera:









L332 Square about 12" to the left of the camera:









SSCP7 right next to the camera to illustrate the beam intensity:









Triple XP-G right next to the camera:









I initially installed the frosted medium optics, but it was so much flood that I couldn't fathom using it on the trail. Reminded me of an over-volted halogen. Beamshots above are with the clear narrow optics. Much more useable beam.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Quickie heat test:

Ambient : 25C

After about 10min in dead still air, the case was up to 80C.

I turned a fan on "low" to somewhat mimic a liesurely pace through the woods and within 1min it was down to 70C.

5minutes brought it down to 55C.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

thanks for beamshots, Ed! Quite useful!
Which reflector used with P7? Is it a magicshine?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

MTE SSC P7 that I converted to a bike light.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

Ed that looks great! I'm very encouraged by your beam-shots. I'd been worrying that the lack-luster optics were going to mean I was wasting lumens, but it seems like it has considerably more grunt than your P7. You've had a chance to see it for real. What are your impressions? As you may know I'm planning a double set-up. I was going to go for two XP-E triples. Should I go for one XP-G and one XPE instead?

blair.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I was kinda disappointed when I had the frosted med's in there. It's fun with the narrows though. I'm anxious to get the assisted cooled one done b/c it's got a bit more of an "open face" and may let a little more light out. I used a 21.5mm shoulder so I can use a bigger O-Ring that doesn't cover the edge of the 20mm optics.

The thermostat may be a bust b/c if it comes on at 50C...it may just be running all the time. It does have a little more surface area than this one, so it may stay a little cooler, but I suspect that it will run at 50-55C like this one, so the thermostat cirucuit will always be closed.


Edit: Obviously the real deal with this unit is that you can build it so dadgum small and still have a usable beam. I'm pretty set on doing a dual/triple Regina when I get the reflectors. It will definitely be a bigger setup, but would make alot more use of the available light. My R5 Drop-In from DX is probably the most impressive light I've got. Not the brightest by any means, but for just one single R5...it's dang amazing.

I'd probably be more apt to get an L31 on a 20mm board than the current 14.6 version b/c you can't have your cake and eat it too. The board is so crowded that you really shouldn't put anything on there larger than the 10mm recommended optic. I had to notch out my 20mm Carclo. Gives it an odd looking beam on the wall but you can't really tell in "real life" situation. I really have my doubts that a Regina would come close to clearing the stuff on the board. Prob. have to do some NL stars with a BuckPuck or Bflex.


Still though...these boards are incredibly nice, good quality, and pack a serious punch with a tiny footprint.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> ..The board is so crowded that you really shouldn't put anything on there larger than the 10mm recommended optic. I had to notch out my 20mm Carclo.


by the way, I assume it was caused by a high-profile input capacitor (the biggest part on the board). I had a similar issue too so now I have replaced it on a low-profile version which is only 0.8mm in height.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Well now you're talkin' turkey!

I think you may possibly get a Regina in there now. I may just have to order a couple more of those.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Well now you're talkin' turkey!
> 
> I think you may possibly get a Regina in there now. I may just have to order a couple more of those.


Sorry to wee on your chips Ed but it needs 10 mm dia of empty board with the xp in the centre for the regina to sit in the correct place for a good beam 
without major surgury of the base of the reflector


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Crap man! I hate soggy chips.

No worries...a nice barren star with external driver may be the ticket then...though...I wonder how much major surgery would have to take place...hmm...I'm not above hackin' away at stuff, hehe...but I don't want the beam to suffer either. If it's just an "outside the cone" mod. then I'd be cool with that. I'd really like to keep the driver inside if at all possible.

Crap...my order seems to be growing.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

chelboed said:


> Edit: Obviously the real deal with this unit is that you can build it so dadgum small and still have a usable beam. I'm pretty set on doing a dual/triple Regina when I get the reflectors. It will definitely be a bigger setup, but would make alot more use of the available light.* My R5 Drop-In from DX is probably the most impressive light I've got. Not the brightest by any means, but for just one single R5...it's dang amazing.
> *


I hate to jump too far off topic with this but since it concerns reflectors for the XP-G, I think it needs to be said. Last night I did a ride using my xpg drop-in torch to supplement my 20mm triple xpg ( on the bars ). It did a very good job providing the extra throw I wanted when doing the faster stuff. However I'm not using the standard (spot) reflector that it came with. I'm using an old Cree P-4 drop-in reflector. The beam pattern is slightly wider than the standard reflector. The output is so bright and the beam pattern so nice ( Yeah, with just one! ) that it rivals the output of my favorite P-7 torch. Sweet...and it runs longer on high too. (** n_ote, there is a small artifact in the beam hot spot but only because the xpg doesn't center up exactly with the larger opening of the xRe reflector. Fortunately, not noticeable at all on the trail. )_

Anyway, when I got back to the car I took the torch off the bars and started shining it around. Because it was completely dark where I was and a bit open I got a good example of what this light can do. Holding it head high I almost couldn't believe how far it could throw ( and yet still with good spill ). I quickly brought out my SST-50 torch which I was using for helmet duties and compared. Goodness! the XPG with XRE reflector looks to have more throw than the SST-50 drop-in! :eekster: This completely took me by surprise. Since the beam patterns are about the same width it looks like_ I might now have a new torch for helmet duties._ I'll be trying this theory out tonight. If it turns out to be the better beam pattern I will have scored a double success....More throw, longer run time on high..:thumbsup:

Can't wait to see what the DIY'ers come up using the reginas for double or triple builds.


----------



## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

The lights and reflectors are all well and good but i'm still trying to work out how I am going to machine one of those lights with black stocking and boots (aka hot chick at top of page, even has a hood to stop glare) and how it will be mounted to my handlebar.....also how I'm going to explain the build to my wife


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

brad72 said:


> ...also how I'm going to explain the build to my wife


That's easy. Start the conversation about how to were looking at this really great light from Lupine and it cost about $1000.

Then say "but after some searching I found this really cool internet forum with this really cool bunch of buys that make their own lights, and I've decided to build my own for WAYYYYYYYYY less."

Just leave out the part on how we help you with talking points for your wife.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Serge...will your MC version be released with the XP-G and XP-E at the same time or will it be XP-G first like the single mode?



I can't wait to get these other two triples rolling!:cornut::cornut::cornut:

Also got some more 7/8" and 1" hex OTW as well as some round stock to muck around with on the Lathe!!:rockon:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Official run time on 2x 18650 2500mAh cells is 1hr 10min. (slightly disappointing)

I'm going to either build a 2s/2p pack or a 2s/1p 26650 4000mAh pack. That'd put me somewhere right in between the 2cell and 4cell in size and run time.


Heck...I thought since my P7 on a 4cell pack lasted 3hrs...that this thing on a 2cell pack would do 1.5hrs.


Hmmm...


Thoughts all?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I just slightly improved the performance, now it exceeds 90% event at 5V. But anyway, 3 [email protected]1.1A consume about 10W even with no losses in the regulator. Of course 2x 18650 is not enough for it. 3xXPG @1A consume roughly the same as single P7 @2.8A but XPGs produce more light.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

*Momentary switches.*

Can I use this switch with the MC version? Can I use it with the non MC version?
Sorry if this is basic stuff, but I'm a dunce about electrics.

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SP0657&CATID=28&form=CAT&SUBCATID=652

Ta.
b.


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bshallard said:


> Can I use this switch with the MC version? Can I use it with the non MC version?
> Sorry if this is basic stuff, but I'm a dunce about electrics.
> 
> http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=SP0657&CATID=28&form=CAT&SUBCATID=652
> ...


Hi. The MC admitts two ways on how the modes can be toggled. The one is by a short power down. For this you'll need a high-current nornally ON switch. The second option by connecting the special port to the ground. For this any of-mom pushbutton can be used. Consider the size and the price.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

quazzle said:


> I just slightly improved the performance, now it exceeds 90% event at 5V. But anyway, 3 [email protected] consume about 10W even with no losses in the regulator. Of course 2x 18650 is not enough for it. 3xXPG @1A consume roughly the same as single P7 @2.8A but XPGs produce more light.


Yeah...understood. I also didn't take the extra voltage sag into consideration with fewer cells. Still happy. They definitely smoke my P7.


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Yeah...understood. I also didn't take the extra voltage sag into consideration with fewer cells. Still happy. They definitely smoke my P7.


:thumbsup: I anticipate your impressions when the overriden 1400 lumens version will be confirmed in the lab. The inductors for it come next week.


----------



## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Official run time on 2x 18650 2500mAh cells is 1hr 10min. (slightly disappointing)
> 
> I'm going to either build a 2s/2p pack or a 2s/1p 26650 4000mAh pack. That'd put me somewhere right in between the 2cell and 4cell in size and run time.
> 
> ...


That doesn't seem to add up. It almost sounds like the efficiency of the driver is low or your batteries are off the stated capacity.

A 2-cell 2.5ah pack should be 18.5 WH

3 XPGs at 1.1A is about 11w. If the driver is about 90% efficient then it should draw 12w from the battery pack.

18.5 WH / 12w = 1.54 hours

I doubt you'd really get that, but I'd expect 1:20-1:25

Can you measure the current draw from the batteries into the driver?

For comparison, testing the actual runtime of my triple XPG lights and high quality 4-cell packs (sanyo) I get 3:45 min runtime on high (1000ma drive) and 7 hours on medium (500ma).


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

MtbMacgyver said:


> A 2-cell 2.5ah pack should be 18.5 WH
> 
> 3 XPGs at 1.1A is about 11w. If the driver is about 90% efficient then it should draw 12w from the battery pack.


pls refer to this datasheet, it's proved not just by me but many other testers -> http://www.lux-rc.com/content/showcase/L30/L332PCB-EN-200410.pdf

within 2S lithium range (6.6V-8.4V) the efficiency is 90%-94%, the overall consumed power (LEDs + regulator) is 11.2 - 10.7 watts.

so the fully charged new 2500mah cells should drive it during at least (2*2.5*3.7)/11.2 = 1.65 hours = 1 h 39 mins

I'll check it in practice today.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Once the new parts are in the MC version will be complete correct?


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

quazzle said:


> within 2S lithium range (6.6V-8.4V) the efficiency is 90%-94%, the overall consumed power (LEDs + regulator) is 11.2 - 10.7 watts.


From the Cree XPG datasheet, the Vf is 3.35-3.4v at 1.1 amps. But I've measured it on actual XPGs and it tends to be towards the lower side.

So 3.35v * 1.1 amp * 3 leds = 11.06 watts just for the LEDs. So at 6.6V, if your driver efficiency is 90%, that gives a power consumption of 11/0.9 = 12. 2 watts which is 1 watt higher than what you're stating for the lower voltage.

So something isn't adding up. Either the driver current is less than 1.1 amps or the Vf of your LEDs is much lower due to high LED temps.

In any case, the runtime that chelboed is seeing seems to be much lower than it should be.


----------



## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

bncrshr77 said:


> Once the new parts are in the MC version will be complete correct?


exactly!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

MtbMacgyver said:


> From the Cree XPG datasheet, the Vf is 3.35-3.4v at 1.1 amps. But I've measured it on actual XPGs and it tends to be towards the lower side.
> 
> So 3.35v * 1.1 amp * 3 leds = 11.06 watts just for the LEDs. So at 6.6V, if your driver efficiency is 90%, that gives a power consumption of 11/0.9 = 12. 2 watts which is 1 watt higher than what you're stating for the lower voltage.


I was carrying out the tests at 80C (stress testing conditions), the overall Vf through 3S LEDs + current sense resistor (R0.18) was about 9.7-9.8V (check oscilloscope diagrams in the datasheet). The exact LED current was 190mv/180mOhm=1.06A (190mv is the driver threshold level, the current sense resistor nominal is R0.18 1%). The LED Vf = 9.7-0.19 = 9.51V. The power dissipated on LEDs is 9.51*1.06=10.1W. The overall consumed power was measured by the input current drain and it's 11.2-11.3W @6.6V.
The power conversion efficiency is 10.1/11.2=90.1%

of course at room temp (20C) of junction the power rating and thus the module output is higher but such conditions hardly reached in real life.

No cheating, my calculations and measurements are accurate. :nono:


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

quazzle said:


> I was carrying out the tests at 80C (stress testing conditions), the overall Vf through 3S LEDs + current sense resistor (R0.18) was about 9.7-9.8V (check oscilloscope diagrams in the datasheet). The exact LED current was 190mv/180mOhm=1.06A (190mv is the driver threshold level, the current sense resistor nominal is R0.18 1%). The LED Vf = 9.7-0.19 = 9.51V. The power dissipated on LEDs is 9.51*1.06=10.1W. The overall consumed power was measured by the input current drain and it's 11.2-11.3W @6.6V.
> The power conversion efficiency is 10.1/11.2=90.1%
> 
> of course at room temp (20C) of junction the power rating and thus the module output is higher but such conditions hardly reached in real life.
> ...


So you're listing your "typical" power consumption ratings in your datasheet at 80C? Is that what you expect for typical LED temps?


----------



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

MtbMacgyver said:


> From the Cree XPG datasheet, the Vf is 3.35-3.4v at 1.1 amps. But I've measured it on actual XPGs and it tends to be towards the lower side.
> 
> So 3.35v * 1.1 amp * 3 leds = 11.06 watts just for the LEDs. So at 6.6V, if your driver efficiency is 90%, that gives a power consumption of 11/0.9 = 12. 2 watts which is 1 watt higher than what you're stating for the lower voltage.
> 
> ...


I'm not so sure about it now that I think about my runtime with the P7 light on a single cell.

Either way...it's funny how far down we crunch numbers, hahaha. I love the light...I'll just build a bigger power source.:thumbsup:

Heck man...if this one can find a home, I'm hoping to check out the Neutral R4 version for my own hex light. I think it sounds kinda nice. May just have to do one of each for good measure. I'm still kinda holding out for the MC version for my own personal light, but I may just get a little impatient and go single mode again, LOL.

Once again Serge...excellent job. Very convenient package.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

As I suspected...twice the battery gave more than twice the runtime. All hail voltage sag.

Runtime on a 2500mAh pack was 1hr 10min

Runtime on a 5000mAh pack was 2hrs 43min

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I have updated 332 run-time test using 2200mah 2S lipo pack here -> https://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6993052&postcount=1


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

*1400 lumens*

Gentlemen, please welcome a 1400 lumens version of L332:
http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/1400_lumens


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Let us have some of theese  Just need to think out, how's a Regina gonna stick to it and i'm on the road!


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

quazzle said:


> Gentlemen, please welcome a 1400 lumens version of L332:
> http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/1400_lumens


Sweet!

Ok Quazzle, when you have some MC versions of this ready? I want.... and my credit card is starting to get itchy in anticipation.

Blair.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bshallard said:


> Sweet!
> 
> Ok Quazzle, when you have some MC versions of this ready? I want.... and my credit card is starting to get itchy in anticipation.
> 
> Blair.


+1
Release the MC version. please please please.....:madman: 
I'm not interested in any of this other stuff until the MC version is available.:yawn:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

This just keeps getting better! Heck I didn't know that LED's were "give and take"!

1400MC version will be sweet!

My Paypal acct. just sent me a message telling me that it's time for another order. I'm happy.

I'm sorta torn though...do I do the Neutral R4's...white R5's...wait for the XP-E's...or hold out for some MC versions. Quazzle is making this decision more difficult w/ each update. Any update on the XP-E board?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> This just keeps getting better! Heck I didn't know that LED's were "give and take"!
> 
> 1400MC version will be sweet!
> 
> ...


I'm not sure the 1400 version is something I'd get too excited about. I'd rather have a 5up light running at the lower current.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I'm finishing the specs now and release MC by Monday. 
The parts just arrived, I update the stock inventory later today.
The supply for MC will be very limited now - only 10pcs


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaahhhhh!!


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

Does anyone have beam shots of the triple with the frosted or clear?

I am nearly decided but the optic is still up in the air...

JB


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

There's a beamshot of the clear narrow vs. SSC P7 on Lux-rc.com

As for a versus pic...I didn't take one of the frosted medium prior to switching to clear narrow. The frosted medium IMO had waaaay to much waste for a good mountain bike light. It was so floody that the beam appeared quite weak. The clear narrow seems about perfect.


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

Thanks Chelboed!

I couldn't remember those but I am sold on the narrow for sure.

Anyone want to buy some P7s...need to fund the 332 project for late summer when it is too hot to ride during the day....


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

by the way I have just released MC version of all L332 boards (cool and neutral XP-G and cool XP-E R3)

the updated firmware features:
- 3 modes (100%, 20%, 2%) switched sequentially by power cutoff (up to 5 sec)
- 2 modes switched by an optional button
- Adjustable low mode (50%-0%) 
- Smooth mode change for easy eyes accommodation
- 3 strobe patterns including ISO standard SOS

To adjust the low setting and to switch to strobe you'll need a button.
Single click switches the light between 2 modes, the full throttle and some low.
On the low mode holding the button >2sec enables low mode adjustment. Any value between 50% and zero may be selected.
On the high mode holding the button during >2sec turns it to strobe mode. 

I tried to keep it simple yet flexible.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Great news quazzle!!

Did you manage to check if it will work to control 2 or more boards with one on/off switch (power switching)??


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

LOL...I just checked it and placed my order for the XP-E and XP-GR5 versions...my blue hex light just stares me in the face every day, hahaha.


Thanks Quaz!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Great news quazzle!!
> Did you manage to check if it will work to control 2 or more boards with one on/off switch (power switching)??


in theory - no problem with it. But I'll check it in practice today.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> in theory - no problem with it. But I'll check it in practice today.


Been waiting for an answer to this one for what feels like an eternity.

I hope you test the mode control on the multiple boards with the one button as well


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

I placed my order last night!!! I can't wait till it gets here.
1 XPG & 1 XPE


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Just put the L332MC in my shopping cart and it's saying "Order for Production". Must be out of stock already?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bncrshr77 said:


> Just put the L332MC in my shopping cart and it's saying "Order for Production". Must be out of stock already?


Not, sure. Think that it's just an indication that you are placing an order.
I got that same message when placing my order yesterday, ~3 hours after quazzle announced the availability.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

MC version are sold out all in a few hours. I had only 10pcs. I'm short of one part actually, I'll try to find it locally ASAP and update the stock availability this week.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Has anybody else finished their light with Quazzle's single mode offering? I'd like sure to see some.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> Has anybody else finished their light with Quazzle's single mode offering? I'd like sure to see some.


Nope. But I have been playing on the computer and streamlining my design. Partly after seeing your double set-up on your helmet, I decided to change my design, and I have the OD down to 23mm for the light housing part, and 20mm for the fins. Still LOTS of heatsink, so it should keep nice and cool, and I'm running some longitudinal grooves as well which should help make it look cool. Some more alloy stock should be here tomorrow and I'll get cutting in the weekend.

Edit: Not sure why the picture ended up as a zip file. Oh well.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

*L332MC - coupling tests*

this is probably the first public pic of the MC version









well, I just finished testing MC coupling (parallel connection). Generally it works, but if you need more lumens than triple XP-G @ 1A can give consider ordering more powerful engine for your design. L332Z (1400 lumens) or cutter's 7UP.

The biggest problem here is possible synchronization issue between two boards. Each one is driven by its own micro-controller and if you use a shared button to control them together there's a chance that they go discord. The button control logic disregards very short clicks. But as long as two boards are running at slightly different freq, there's unlikely chance that one board detects the click and change the mode while another ignores it. Also, all strobe modes have tendency to go discord after 5-10 minutes. The reason is the same - minor difference between the mc's frequencies.









I have performed many tests when two L332MC were connected in parallel. And I was able to reproduce sync problem a few times. Each time I had to restart them to return to normal.

But nevertheless two L332's can be linked together in sync but some soldering work needed. If you take one L332MC and a single-mode L332 and take PWM signal from the micro-controller output and connect it to the single-mode board's PWM input - this will work. But I guess this is not worth efforts for most DIY's.


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

how are you connecting the leads??

I can't tell but it looks different than simple soldering...


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> I have performed many tests when two L332MC were connected in parallel. And I was able to reproduce sync problem a few times. Each time I had to restart them to return to normal.


Quazzle, thanks for the testing and the reply. If I understand the above correctly do you mean that if parallel boards go out of sync to fix them power is removed from the lights and then reconnected, they will both then restart in the default mode, high from memory?



quazzle said:


> But nevertheless two L332's can be linked together in sync but some soldering work needed. If you take one L332MC and a single-mode L332 and take PWM signal from the micro-controller output and connect it to the single-mode board's PWM input - this will work. But I guess this is not worth efforts for most DIY's.


Exactly how would you take a signal from the PWM output, is there a pin or hole to solder to or is it a case of trying to solder to one of the micro-controllers feet?

Thanks


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

jbflyfshr said:


> how are you connecting the leads??
> 
> I can't tell but it looks different than simple soldering...


They look to be simply soldered to the posts provided on the board.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

jmitchell13 said:


> They look to be simply soldered to the posts provided on the board.


I think the wires are soldered to some sort of a sleeve that then slips over the posts, almost like the female half of a connector. This would allow for easy testing of individual boards for QC.

No doubt Quazzle will clarify this though


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jbflyfshr said:


> how are you connecting the leads??
> I can't tell but it looks different than simple soldering...


for testing and QC I use small female receptacles similar to these https://search.digikey.com/scripts/...o&lang=en&site=us&keywords=ED90451-ND&x=0&y=0

But for final product I do recommend old good soldering. Gold plated posts are much easier to solder than contact pads on a MCPCB.

The two pics below explain in details electrical interfaces of single-mode and MC boards:

















As a minimum all you need is to connect the power supply to the power input leads. By interrupting the power supply you can switch between 3 predefined levels (100% -> 20% -> 2%). Optional button provides more features (smooth mode switch, low-mode programming, different strobe patterns). If you need two (or more) modules to work in sync, use PWM output/input pads. Probably I had to reserve posts for them too.



emu26 said:


> Quazzle, thanks for the testing and the reply. If I understand the above correctly do you mean that if parallel boards go out of sync to fix them power is removed from the lights and then reconnected, they will both then restart in the default mode, high from memory?


you're welcome. Yes, that what I meant.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I know this is sorta redundant, but to recap the proper mode button...

Normally closed momentary, correct?




Anybody source a really small SPST nc ON-MOM switch to use on these? I was hoping there'd be a Judco at digikey that would fill the bill, but all the "ON-MOM" switches seem to be larger like the switches El34 sells.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> I know this is sorta redundant, but to recap the proper mode button...
> Normally closed momentary, correct?


depends on which type of mode-change interface you're going to use.

If you have only two leads to the module, you can toggle it by power interrupt. In this case you need a normally closed or 2-pos high-current switch (rated up to 2.5A).

but you can also connect a simple low-current normally open switch between GND (-) and BTN pins. By using this button much more options are available.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

quazzle said:


> depends on which type of mode-change interface you're going to use.
> 
> If you have only two leads to the module, you can toggle it by power interrupt. In this case you need a normally closed high-current switches (rated up to 2.5A).
> 
> but you can also connect a simple low-current normally open switch between GND (-) and BTN pins. By using this button much more options are available.


Aaaaaahhhhh...normally open...sweet! Those are def. avail at digikey.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Here's what I was looking at:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=559PB-ND


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Or this:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=SW1020CT-ND

And this:
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=P12216SCT-ND


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Hi Quazzle, from post #632 I'm assuming:
1) The MC version can ouput PWM (one pad of R2) in to a single-mode board (PWM input pad 4 of U3)?

2) That this will keep them in perfect sync (ie true master and slave).

If so I'll be ordering additional single-mode boards to go with the MCs I already have on order!


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## owent (Jun 10, 2010)

I have a L312 on the way need some options for optics will the regina be able to modded to fit. Chelboed i see you used the carclo 20mm any one else have any suggestions in the 20mm range?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Mark2c said:


> Hi Quazzle, from post #632 I'm assuming:
> 1) The MC version can ouput PWM (one pad of R2) in to a single-mode board (PWM input pad 4 of U3)?
> 2) That this will keep them in perfect sync (ie true master and slave).
> If so I'll be ordering additional single-mode boards to go with the MCs I already have on order!


all correct. As long as you'll be able to solder to small pads. I'll consider to add additional SYNC pin in the future releases. I have checked the board layout, I have some space there


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

owent said:


> I have a L312 on the way need some options for optics will the regina be able to modded to fit. Chelboed i see you used the carclo 20mm any one else have any suggestions in the 20mm range?


you will receive a new low-profile version. I didn't test it with regina but now I have no components on the board which may clash with optics (as long as it has no pins).


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I think it's a stretch, but possible. If you throw the Regina on a mill upside-down and mill the bottom off to where it's super thin...you may be able to get it to sit down on there. I don't know how thick the material is, but it's worth a try. If anything...it may not sit 100% all the way down on it, but it would be close.

If you want a sure thing...go with a star.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Mark2c said:


> Hi Quazzle, from post #632 I'm assuming:
> 1) The MC version can ouput PWM (one pad of R2) in to a single-mode board (PWM input pad 4 of U3)?
> 
> 2) That this will keep them in perfect sync (ie true master and slave).
> ...


Mark, can you please report back you 2c worth on how difficult this actually is to solder. Those pads look very small


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

quazzle said:


> all correct. As long as you'll be able to solder to small pads. I'll consider to add additional SYNC pin in the future releases. I have checked the board layout, I have some space there


:thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Heck man...I have a hard enough time soldering the gold contacts w/ my shakey freakin' fingers, hahaha.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Heck man...I have a hard enough time soldering the gold contacts w/ my shakey freakin' fingers, hahaha.


we can help with soldering for free, just leave a comment next time that you need the leads to be soldered to input posts.


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

quazzle said:


> we can help with soldering for free.


Excellent! With good silicone wire and long enough ?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Heck...I was just kidding...making a joke about the size of the board, LOL. Nice svc to offer though.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

The L332MC specs is updated. 
http://www.lux-rc.com/content/showcase/L30/L332PCB-EN-240610.pdf


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Quazzle...What is the latest update on the availability of the L3322MC?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

they will be available again in next two weeks. We're going to have some rest starting from tomorrow and return to our duties on July 12th.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

will they have the extra posts on them for the master slave setup with the single mode boards?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

emu26 said:


> will they have the extra posts on them for the master slave setup with the single mode boards?


not in two weeks sorry. It needs the pcb's to be amended and produced
---
it was also noticed a mistype in the latest specs, sorry. The minimum preset mode should be always read as "2%", not 5.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

phburns said:


> chelboed,
> 
> With 3 slots on 3 sides you'll have close to 15 sq inches of surface area.:thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Blind fins will need more area than open ones because air can't move through them easily (convection, movement etc).


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Makes sense.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I got my two MC boards last night. XP-G / XP-E...I dropped them into the hole just to see how they fit...a little snug. My holes were bored to 20.5mm which I assumed would be ample.

Tips for anyone with this issue...I just used some fine grit sandpaper and ran it around the I.D. of the hole by hand and it was enough. We're talking only fractions of a mm. Both fit fine now. I'll get one finished up maybe this weekend when I have a little more time.

I sorta fumbled with my connections though. I thought I had a couple more Trailtech connectors...so I need to wait on UPS to deliver those...along with another charger and a couple of LiPo cells.


What's up with that LiPo cell "sample" you mentioned earlier quazzle?


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

chelboed said:


> I got my two MC boards last night. XP-G / XP-E...I dropped them into the hole just to see how they fit...a little snug. My holes were bored to 20.5mm which I assumed would be ample.
> 
> Tips for anyone with this issue...I just used some fine grit sandpaper and ran it around the I.D. of the hole by hand and it was enough. We're talking only fractions of a mm. Both fit fine now. I'll get one finished up maybe this weekend when I have a little more time.
> 
> ...


Now it's my turn to be jealous.
My order was too big (four MC boards) and associated optics, so it's on back-order. Post up some pics so I can continue to live vicariously for a bit longer.

b.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Help me out here Quazzle.


First off...LDO works well. Cooling fan came on at 50C. XP-E board is nice. Bright! Looks excellent with the 20mm narrow optics. Power-cut mode-control is bomber! Haven't used the momentary just yet.



Do these boards have reverse polarity protection? (don't ask) I had the "active cooled" light up and running like a champ. I mucked around with crap and just barely accidentally tapped the contacts and gave it 7.4v in the wrong direction.

Is this something I can ship back and you can fix...or did I just hose myself?

Right now I'm just getting a dim light from all 3 emitters. (probably about 2%)

I still have the XP-G MC...but I'd really like to not be out $60, hahaha. (I'm such an idiot) Just one little slip of the hand!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Got the XP-G wired up in the blue Hex light. All I got to say is that the MC is PIMP! I'm using my double switch w/ momentary. The momentary functions are so smooth. Nice transitions. Strobes out the yang...if you need 'em. I really like the user set mode function. You hold the button down in med/low and it smoothly sets a reduced brightness mode where ever you like.


Very nice Serge! Top notch.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

bshallard said:


> Now it's my turn to be jealous.
> My order was too big (four MC boards) and associated optics, so it's on back-order. Post up some pics so I can continue to live vicariously for a bit longer.
> 
> b.


Same here. I thought I had placed my order quick enough, but alas I'm on backorder also. Q said they will ship on 7/12.  
Fortunatly it's not night riding season yet, otherwise I'd be a bit more anxious.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Got the XP-G wired up in the blue Hex light. All I got to say is that the MC is PIMP! I'm using my double switch w/ momentary. The momentary functions are so smooth. Nice transitions. Strobes out the yang...if you need 'em. I really like the user set mode function. You hold the button down in med/low and it smoothly sets a reduced brightness mode where ever you like.
> 
> Very nice Serge! Top notch.


Thanks for the review. It's nice to get actual feedback on these drivers.
So which mode to you prefer? Power interupt or momentary switch?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> no problem. The max currate rate can be reduced by a hardware fix. I can do a custom, no problem.


Q,
Can you provide some instructions on the hardware fix to adjust the max current? I assume it would entail swapping a resistor, which I'm very comfortable doing. If you don't want to post a hack here could you PM me?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

jmitchell13 said:


> Thanks for the review. It's nice to get actual feedback on these drivers.
> So which mode to you prefer? Power interupt or momentary switch?


Depends on whether you're a roadie, MTB'er, or a geek, fiddling with it in your lap. The "smooth transition" feature with the momentary button is excellent. Very professional. You cannot access the strobes or "user defined" setting w/o the mode button either.

With a single tap of the mode button, you smoothly transition between 100% and a preset medium mode. When in this "lower" mode...press and hold the mode button to set it anywhere between 2%-50%. Works like a gem!

When on 100%:
...press and hold the mode button to access 10hz strobe
...press and hold again to access a multi-burst strobe
...press and hold again to access a "bright double burst w/ low mode in the background"
...press and hold again to access SOS
...and then back to bright.

Real life situation? I'd say for a MTB'er on familiar trails would be fine with "power-interrupt". A MTB'er on a LONG XC trek in remote areas may want the modes to access SOS if need be. Roadie may want one of each so he can have the strobe functions. You can definitely "be seen" with the strobe...fo sho!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Do these boards have reverse polarity protection? (don't ask) I had the "active cooled" light up and running like a champ. I mucked around with crap and just barely accidentally tapped the contacts and gave it 7.4v in the wrong direction.
> 
> Is this something I can ship back and you can fix...or did I just hose myself?
> 
> ...


I'm sorry but... it's too small and I'm too addicted on power saving to afford reverse polarity protection. It can be easily done extenally if you find shotkey diode rated to 3A.

Please contact me via PM and I'll instruct how to send the parts back for repair. It's a matter of replacing just one part (regulator IC with 5 legs).


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> Q,
> Can you provide some instructions on the hardware fix to adjust the max current? I assume it would entail swapping a resistor, which I'm very comfortable doing. If you don't want to post a hack here could you PM me?


yes, it's easy as long as you're not going to increase current beyond 1A (otherwise inductor should be replaced too). There's a small part called R1 (it's about 3x1.5mm). Use the following simple ratio to calculate the R1 value:

R1 (ohms) = 0.19 / Current (Amps).

For example of you need to limit the max at 0.75A you should pick up R1 = 0.19/0.75 = 0.25 ohms


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

quazzle said:


> yes, it's easy as long as you're not going to increase current beyond 1A (otherwise inductor should be replaced too). There's a small part called R1 (it's about 3x1.5mm). Use the following simple ratio to calculate the R1 value:
> 
> R1 (ohms) = 0.19 / Current (Amps).
> 
> For example of you need to limit the max at 0.75A you should pick up R1 = 0.19/0.75 = 0.25 ohms


Perfect! Thanks... 
Just what I expected... I only plan to decrease the current, so I'll be fine just switching R1.
Sounds like a 1206 sized resistor, correct?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

jmitchell13 said:


> Sounds like a 1206 sized resistor, correct?


 Exactly, check digikey store. Also check that it's power rating is not exceeded. Power in watts can be calculated by formula R1 (ohms) * Current (Amps) * Current (Amps). In the previous example it's 0.25 * 0.75 * 0.75 = 0.14watts


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks Quazzle.
I'll get it shipped back to ya.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Any beamshots of the 3xpg MC boards yet?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Why would it be different than the single mode...you wanna see some med / low and adjustable level beamshots? I could get out and do that tonight...me thinx.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Why would it be different than the single mode...you wanna see some med / low and adjustable level beamshots? I could get out and do that tonight...me thinx.


I agree, beam shots will be the same. Same leds, same optics and same driving current equal same beam shot.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Hmmm, I thought the only beamshots I saw were from the single xpg model?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Go to quazzle's website. My beamshots vs. SSC P7 are on there.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Got it.....I was thinking about beamshots from the trail but I have a pretty good idea now!! Thanks.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I really do need to get out the video camera tonight to show how smooth the mode changes can be with such a high quality design. It's sorta like the bimmer of the light world.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Check out one of Trouties threads if you want beamshots. He has beam shots of triples, not Quazzles ones, but the same LED and similar, if not same drive currents. Assuming everything Quazzle claims is correct, and there is no reason to question it, then the result will be the same. The majority of Troutie's shots are at the same 1 or 2 locations as well which makes comparing them much easier


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

FWIW...I have built a Quazzle L33 Single Mode, L33 MC Moded, and L31 Single mode w/ Carclo 20.

L31 is a great little light for me to aim close and use as a near field flood.

L33 MC and single mode both appear similar. I would venture to say that the only difference in the two would be the housings ability to dissipate the heat. Both are brighter than my SSC P7 at 2.8amps.

The triple-G with clear/narrow optics kinda looks like a big hot-spot. It's like a concentrated flood or something. Broader than a dual Regina...but not as much wasted spill as my P7.



The day that some brilliant person creates a 35mm triple-reflector (kinda like a tr-1200) will be excellent!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> The day that some brilliant person creates a 35mm triple-reflector (kinda like a tr-1200) will be excellent!


Maybe here?

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_Cute-3-XP.pdf

I am thinking about a dual triple using these in a housing similar to my dual MC-E. Some people on this forum have made lights with this optic and IIRC it had a pretty nice beam.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I don't se a reflector on that .pdf, vancbiker. Just optics.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Duh! Sorry I didn't read your sentence thoroughly:blush: let me get my glasses on.

Yes, optic only. A *REFLECTOR* would be very nice


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Something like this only in a 35mm triple:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

L332 MC XP-G video...best I could do with the crappy camera I have.


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## Skinny Gold (Jul 2, 2009)

First off, I love this little light engine. Every light i build from now on will be based on this engine. I got my pair of L332 last week and quickly slapped a body together to show at the local frankenbike event. ran it off a pair of 18650s without an optic and it worked great. everyone loved the output and i collected some phone numbers to call when i had a few nice ones built up for sale. 

I came home to find my optics waiting for me so i grabbed the light to mount the optic when this happened. I know i didnt yank it hard but i noticed the pin solder at the base was attached to what appears to be a diode? I have never done such small soldering but im going to try to save it. 

Just wanted to mention it FYI so the same doesnt happen to anyone else. any tips or advice for soldering smds? 

when will more be available for sale?


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Chelboed, I tried to watch your video but it has been blocked by YouTube for copyright reasons on your music.  

Skinny Gold - Bummer, that doesn't look good. I would also be concerned what other components are at risk of falling off :eekster: How hot did your light get when it was running? 


***


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Works fine for me.

Try again.


It's probably b/c I used that Andy Mckee tune at the end. I'll have to give him a call and tell him it's me...LOL...he was my best man at my wedding for crap sakes...sheesh!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Skinny Gold said:


> First off, I love this little light engine. Every light i build from now on will be based on this engine. I got my pair of L332 last week and quickly slapped a body together to show at the local frankenbike event. ran it off a pair of 18650s without an optic and it worked great. everyone loved the output and i collected some phone numbers to call when i had a few nice ones built up for sale.
> 
> I came home to find my optics waiting for me so i grabbed the light to mount the optic when this happened. I know i didnt yank it hard but i noticed the pin solder at the base was attached to what appears to be a diode? I have never done such small soldering but im going to try to save it.
> 
> ...


Hey dude...no worries. I had my single mode do that. Reason is b/c there's so little room on the board, around the optics...you end up inadvertently putting too much pressure on it and it pops off. Next time, use a slightly smaller AWG and pre-bend everything so you don't put lateral pressure on it.

For now, just solder it back on and you're good to go. (that's what I did)


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## Skinny Gold (Jul 2, 2009)

scar: i never really let the light warm up too much at the show since i had a momentary button on it just for show. it heat sinked well and only warms up a little with a small breeze flowing through it. i know it wasnt heat that broke the pin loose. 

chelboed: you right about it being tight in there but i never got a chance to mount the optic when i fell off. It just seemed to come loose when i picked it up. i do need to find a smaller guage wire for this engine too keep the pressure down. I noticed at the bottom there is solder joining both pieces together because of the limited space. I hope my soldering saves the day. 

yep, video wont play. 

thanks guys


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Skinny Gold, you should be able to solder the capacitor back on with the solder that is already there, I would try that first as it could get messy if you add more. You may have to if that aproach fails.

Chelboed
Video plays for me


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Vid deleted


I'll figure something else out.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

That solder post on the board looks like a problem to me. I would prefer a layout that has a solder pad location for the wire just like a non-driver equipped star. Is there some reason that the post needs to be used on this assembly? 

A bike light gets exposed to a lot of bouncing, bumps, and vibration. Over a long term I would be concerned that even if the original soldering went well, the long term may see the post break off at the solder pad. Bad news in the middle of a ride.

For those using this engine, you should be sure to solder your wires as close to the base of the post as possible. Look at Skinnys pics. His red/black wire is soldered down close to the base and intact. The one that broke is soldered up high where is has the most leverage on the post.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

The pin is broken not by vibration, it's not possible. All parts are soldered using the same alloy and if a pin can be torn off by vibration, all other parts will be broken too, inlcuding LEDs. 

On Skinnys pic I see that the broken pin is bended a bit. That may be caused only by a force to it, the pins are quite rigid and it's not easy to bend it as on the photo. The wire is soldered too high and the most likely it was hit by the optics. 

Believe me, any SMD part can be broken and torn off with a moderate force applied to it. But never by vibration.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> That solder post on the board looks like a problem to me. I would prefer a layout that has a solder pad location for the wire just like a non-driver equipped star. Is there some reason that the post needs to be used on this assembly?
> 
> A bike light gets exposed to a lot of bouncing, bumps, and vibration. Over a long term I would be concerned that even if the original soldering went well, the long term may see the post break off at the solder pad. Bad news in the middle of a ride.
> 
> For those using this engine, you should be sure to solder your wires as close to the base of the post as possible. Look at Skinnys pics. His red/black wire is soldered down close to the base and intact. The one that broke is soldered up high where is has the most leverage on the post.


I agree with Quazzle...that post is on there pretty good. It's also connected to the diode. If it pops off it's b/c of a "slight of hand" like my first one. It's not going to come off w/ vibration. Just make sure you're using an effective strain relief.

I personally like the solder post b/c it's much easier to run the wire to that than try to get my iron down inside there. I'd leave the post.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> I personally like the solder post b/c it's much easier to run the wire to that than try to get my iron down inside there. I'd leave the post.


That's why I said "layout" in my previous post. If the MCPCB layout had a regular solder pad near the edge to connect the wiring to it would be easy to solder the wires directly.



quazzle said:


> The pin is broken not by vibration, it's not possible. All parts are soldered using the same alloy and if a pin can be torn off by vibration, all other parts will be broken too, inlcuding LEDs


Unfortunately the post is having a wire soldered to it that may have unsupported length or other stresses on it. This is particularly true if a DIY builder uses wire of a heavier gauge than really needed (we see that all the time here). Yes, that would be a users problem, but it would be less likely to be a problem if the wire soldered directly to a pad.

I stand by my advice to solder your wiring as close to the base of the pin as possible.

I am not saying the product is bad, just expressing what, IMHO, could be improved.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> That's why I said "layout" in my previous post. If the MCPCB layout had a regular solder pad near the edge to connect the wiring to it would be easy to solder the wires directly.
> 
> Unfortunately the post is having a wire soldered to it that may have unsupported length or other stresses on it. This is particularly true if a DIY builder uses wire of a heavier gauge than really needed (we see that all the time here). Yes, that would be a users problem, but it would be less likely to be a problem if the wire soldered directly to a pad.
> 
> ...


I get what you're saying. I agree that the layout would be easier if you had one pad on either side of the exit hole.

Like maybe switch the + and C1...and then switch the - and LDO. I understand that it's probably not very feasable though.


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

Since the wires are only carrying about an amp, #22 or #24 guage will be satisfactory. Inside the light head, I like to use # 24 Kypton insulated wire because it's silvered and flexable. I bought some surplus, many years ago. I agree with Quazzle, vibration will never tear surface mount parts off the board. They can be scraped or pulled off easily though. Strain relief the wires by glueing em down. Use Goop: requires tapeing wire and waiting an hour or 5 min epoxy or Cyan + activator = instant stick, like this stuff http://www.hobbylinc.com/htm/gpm/gpmgpmr6070.htm?source=froogle Then you won't apply torque to the pins. James


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Agreed, short lengths of very flexible wiring are required. Voltage drop is not an issue (0.1 - 0.2V drop won't make a noticeable performance change).

FYI: 

28AWG has a voltage drop of about 0.25V per metre @ 1A (ie 0.25 Watts wasted per metre).

A good rule of thumb: one metre of 1mm^2 copper conductor has a voltage drop of 20mV @ 1A. 

1mm^2 is around 17AWG. HTH.


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## Skinny Gold (Jul 2, 2009)

Success!! i was able to solder everything back together without much trouble. There is no way vibration caused this as the light was never mounted. the optic didnt do it either as i just about to install the optic when i noticed i had somehow broken them free. what the optic did do after i had fixed everything was broke that little piece off again off its pad but from the other side. very little space next to the optic. i ll know to be more carefull next time. love this little thing!!


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Quazzle - awesome boards thanks. Take a look at them fitted up in in bshallard's lights: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7139323&postcount=56

Awesome!

I particularly like the use of press fit sapphire watch glasses and suspect this will be much more common with the smaller mtb lights of the future.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Mark2c said:


> Quazzle - awesome boards thanks. Take a look at them fitted up in in bshallard's lights: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7139323&postcount=56


thank you! I posted there with some beamshots


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

All doubts about heat dissipation have been removed. (for myself anyhoo)

It's a fairly warm night here. My original triple hex design reached a peak temp of 6C running full blast at the end of the longest climb that I've got. I took the "fast way down" and 25 seconds later...it was down to 52C.

I also finished the test running full blast with the 2x 26650 IMR cells from BatterySpace:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=7146861&postcount=23

Did I mention that this particular runtime and heat test was done with a Lupine nylon handlebar mount that was flush-mounted to the bottom of my light body...further pushing my design to the limit b/c the "L-Bracket" that I had originally made for the helmet mount was helpful in carrying heat away from the body. The Nylon further insulates it.

Yes, I'm happy.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

quazzle,
I clicked on your mtbr ad link, but your ad has expired.

I'll try and get to your web site another way.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

El34 said:


> quazzle,
> I clicked on your mtbr ad link, but your ad has expired.
> 
> I'll try and get to your web site another way.


http://lux-rc.com/


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks Jim,
I was going to see about doing an experiment using the L332MC and the Marwi housings.

Yikes, I see that these modules are $52.90  

Ok, so much for that experiment. :sad:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I haven't posted beamshots yet with the Frosted medium optic, so here goes:

F4.0
ISO 100
Daylight
6"

Narrow clear (aimed down a little more than my previous...since I use it as a bar light)









Frosted Medium









Double Regina (just for reference)









Double Regina with a Frosted Medium triple:









Double Regina with a Narrow Clear triple:


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## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

Jesus! thats one little 20mm triple?
Ace what more do you need!
Oh yea stupid question round this forum lol!


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

The last two pic's are a 20mm triple XP-G and two single XP-G's with Regina Reflectors. The middle one is just the two singles. I just threw those last three in there to show how well they compliment eachother as a bar/helmet combo.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Got my boards today! Wired them up and everything works. It will be another couple days before I can get everything buttoned up. I'll post pics when I've got it all together.

Thanks Q!:thumbsup:


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## fujio001 (Nov 2, 2007)

Yes!


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi there!  Thanks Ed for beamshots update. It seems that double-regina is very promising setup.

Just a minor update from me. I have finally received all parts to continue production/lab experiments. So L332 is again in stock. All backorders were dispatched today.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Sounds like time for a new ad :thumbsup: 





***


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

Look out Quazzle, the ad police are on to you !!!!!


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

I tell you the ad police are brutal!

Maybe you should do one like the lupine guys on the upper right of every page...might be pricey don't know.

I hope to have some $$'s to spend on a triple soon. If more people needed a landscape designer in Oklahoma I wouldn't be in Barney right now :madman: . I will get off the soap box and let the next guy on.


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## ndg (Oct 1, 2010)

*XPE availability*

My first post here, but I've read through all 15 pages over the past few days and this module sounds great.

Quazzle, any idea when XP-E versions of the MC board will be available again? It would build up into a lovely helmet light.

Thanks

Nathan


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I don't get it...the XP-E version is on his site right now. Have you looked at LuxRC.com?


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## ndg (Oct 1, 2010)

I've found them on lux-rc, but the're "order for production" when you go to the checkout, just wanting to know when the next batch were being made up.

Nathan


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Ohhhh...well, that would be good to know.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

guys, thanks, I'll manage to order some XP-E R3 as soon as possible


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Quazzle.. I order two of your L332MC boards yesterday.
Skimming through this thread..
Am i correct in saying that the thermal protection will just switch off the light and not dim it to say 50%?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

thanks. Yes, there's no dim. In fact the overheating threshold is set at 120C, it's too high to be reached if the module installed in a body. It's needed to protect the board if it's not connected to a heat sink at all


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

+1...I've installed these in some pretty small housings and never got close to 120C. Never noticed any heat-related dimming either. Just ensure a good thermal path. I use Arctic Silver.


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## finch2 (Nov 13, 2009)

Thanks to Quazzle...I finally got the L332MC into my old halogen light head. It took a bit of fiddling, but I was determined to make it a useful light again. Not that pretty but now I have a good bike light and camping light.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

congratulations! I'm glad to know that my stuff proved useful. This is the best incentive for me to keep moving ahead!


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I have one of the earlier 332mc boards.....If I have both switch options wired up will one overide the other as soon as I press the button? If I was running the standard High/Medium/Low settings using the on/off switch how would I switch over to the MC function switch to allow the other functions to operate? Anyone got any pics of their lights wired for both options? Thanks.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

When I did mine, I wired the on/off to hot and cold. Then I rand a 3rd wire out of the housing to my momentary switch and out of the switch to the negative lead on the outside of the housing. I did this b/c it was easier to attach the momentary negative to the on/off negative outside than it was to run 4 wires through that tiny hole and fit them all under the optics.

The On / Off will always cause it to turn on and off. When you have the light turned on high....you can hit the momentary and it will do a smooth dim. At that point, push and hold the momentary and set your "dim" mode. Now you press again and it will go back to bright.

At any point during that, you can do a "half tap power cut" and cycle H/M/L with the power button.


With the light on full power, press and hold the mode button to go into your strobe modes. Press and hold to change modes.


That was my experience with the momentary functions on my triple hex light.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

This is an XPE helmet light. Dimming switch is on the left hand side of the helmet (waterproof cateye remote button), with battery on the rear. Goes great.

Way better to use than magicshine (don't have pass though flashing/off when going to high,, doesn't foul top of the helmet).

Good stuff Q.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Chelboed....Thanks for the description....Believe it or not it actually makes sense now!!

Mark....So are you only running a dimmer switch or do you have an on/off in the battery cable that goes in the side of the light head? I'm guessing your dimmer switch wire goes in the back of the light head?


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm only using the one switch (turn off by unplugging). Works fine for me.

I'll get a 333 (can be turned off using the one button & has reverse polarity protection) once they are available.

FYI this is how the 332 can be controlled (thank Q for the pic):

The wire to the light is a quad mic cable so that I can terminate the dimmer at the battery (neater and more simple to wire).

EDIT: Wire is 26AWG Mogami W2893 Miniature Quad Mic Cable (.PDF attached). Bought from Redco.com for US$0.66/ft and ten feet sent to New Zealand cost $US5.81. This cable is available in multiple colors. 

Regarding current carrying capacity:
1) voltage drop is the issue (ie not thermal capacity). 

2) with the batteries at 6V (ie worst case) this light draws 2.0A on high beam (ie 12.0 Watts).

Now:
A) 26AWG has as voltage drop of 0.13V per metre @1A so we will have 0.26V per metre at 2A. Paralleled conductors & using the shield will help, as does keeping the run short (ie use a big cable on the battery end).

B) FYI: 24AWG has a voltage drop of 0.098V per metre @ 1A. 28AWG has a voltage drop of about 0.25V per metre @ 1A.

C) a good rule of thumb: one metre of 1mm^2 conductor has a voltage drop of 20mV @ 1A (you can easily scale out from there). 

D) for reference: 1mm^2 is around 17AWG.

Hope this helps!


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

I think I'll try to find some of the quad core wire and see what I can do! But I will put an inline power switch somewhere in the as well.


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

What do you guys think is the smallest guage of main power wire I can get away with on the 332mc? I know the dimmer switch guage wouldn't really matter.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

I've revised my posts above to answer these questions. HTH


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## glasius (Jan 14, 2009)

Quazzle (and also other electronic minded diy-ers),

I'm trying to develop a nice big bikelight that I can transform into a flashlight. I have some ideas on the construction, but I want to make a triple L332MC bike/flashlight.
Now I realize that I didn't pay enough attention during the physics classes at school :madman: , so I was wondering if the following schematic drawing is sufficient to run those L332MC boards.










Questions:
What kind of Voltage do I need? Is 8.4V enough. I think it's enough, because every L332MC board is parallel connected.

But how many mA does this schematic needs? Is 3000mA enough?
I'm confused due to the pdf-file of this board, because it stated that the board drains max 2.74A @ 4.75V.

Can anymore help me further?

Thnx :thumbsup:


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## acezone (Jul 6, 2010)

take a look again at the switch wiring ie on the top board you can follow your switch wire back around to the negitve contact, im no sure you can have them all off of one switch, but if you can the switch wires need to be in parallel also. hope that makes sence,

as with the battery, the voltage is good but you will be using more current then that with them all on high some thing like 4500 amps at 8 volts a battery with 3000ma would give you a run time of just over 30mins


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

sorry for late reply, quite busy with new boards...well, I'd recommend to wait for L333 which has a sync terminal for master-slave mode. In this case you'll need one master board and two cheap slaves which simply follow the master settings


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Hi Quazzle - do you have plans to make boards with the new XM-L when it comes? It would be nice to be able to use a reflector with an all-in-one board.


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## glasius (Jan 14, 2009)

Okay, so I have to wait for the L333. In the meantime I still want to know if the 3 triple LC332MC boards can handle the schematics.

I see that the mom switch lay-out in my previous drawing wasn't good, so I made a new schematic drawing with the mom switch parallel connected.










Any ideas if this will actually works? I think in theory it will.

Thnx


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

it looks much better. and it works, some custom builders already did that. but as soon as each board is driven by its own microcontroller, there's a minor theoretical risk that one board is not switched to low as others do (the timer freqs are bit different so one board may filter out a short click while others may accept it). that's why sync line is needed to guarantee that all boards are running in the same mode.


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## wojtekkrakow (Jan 19, 2010)

quazzle said:


> ...well, I'd recommend to wait for L333...


When it will be ready for sale?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

friends, let's continue this thread. I finally finished with 333 and it's time to decide which optic to use for larger boards. I got a few major types which may work nice for 3/4UP and 7UP and I decided to do some voting as can't rely just on myself in this.

I have no idea how to setup the voting here so I did it on my site. 
I hate forwarding you from MTBR and I promise to summarize the results here as it's finished. 
I placed the beamshots also there.

Total 14 lenses were tested from 3 vendors: CARCLO, KHATOD and LL. All are small (doing small things is my destiny). 
Besides the pictures I also measured the hotspot illumination to give you a measurable idea of how much throw it may give.

http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/10mm_lens


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## klynk (Apr 18, 2010)

I vote for Carclo 10507 for a single-lrd projects.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I would vote for the carlco 10507 on the 7up but im note getting a vote button for it, only the other 3 are available..
same for the single board,only the other 5 are available


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

carclo 10507 is a triple which is probably the best in its category but cannot be used in single and 7UP configurations. Thanks for your feedback!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

quazzle said:


> carclo 10507 is a triple which is probably the best in its category but cannot be used in single and 7UP configurations. Thanks for your feedback!


Ok..
I'm just a little confused why they appear in your beamshots for each category, Carclo 10507 3X10MM Narrow Clear?









These are great lab beam shots, but i think they would be more helpfull if they were taken simply in the woods, that way we can see how they perform in the enviroment that we are using them in..
Looking at the beamshots I like the shots of the tighter beams because the appear brighter, but i like some flood when riding..

But thanks for your hard work:thumbsup:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

it's given just for reference. this optic is very widely used, lots of on-track beamshots here and @CPF so you can compare it with other alternatives.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hi Quazzle!

Thanks for your great work and the beamshots.

But i am missing the Polymer 7up 12° optic in the test! These optic is proven to give a more focused beam than the Kathod 10° optic with still a useful amount of side spill!

Datasheet: http://www.led-tech.de/produkt-pdf/polymer/261-6-Degree-7-Cell-XP-E-Optic.pdf
Available at: http://www.led-tech.de/de/High-Powe...ach-Linse-12°-LT-1730_106_108.html?cross=1730

Side note: the Polymer and the Kathod have the same size and therefore are interchangeable (they only differ slightly in their height)


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

quazzle said:


> carclo 10507 is a triple which is probably the best in its category but cannot be used in single and 7UP configurations. Thanks for your feedback!


I would agree that carclo 10507 is probably the best TIR type optic going at the moment (for a 3up). You should really check out the Polymer Optics 7up clusters then as I found the beam pattern to be very close to that of the 10507. With the Polymer cluster I think you've got a good reason to continue development of your 7up board. :thumbsup:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

thanks, the polymer is completely missed in my lab. I have dozens of samples from over the world but for unknown reason none from polymer. Sad omission from my side, I'll have to fulfill it in the future.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

out of stock till mid-Jan, sorry,
I distributed 50pcs 333-betas so let's see what people say about it. 
I'm ready to polish details before the big bang


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## joec1 (Dec 15, 2010)

Keen to buy a unit from you.... but cant see where i can get one? ? ?


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

Mark2c said:


> EDIT: Wire is 26AWG Mogami W2893 Miniature Quad Mic Cable (.PDF attached). Bought from Redco.com for US$0.66/ft and ten feet sent to New Zealand cost $US5.81. This cable is available in multiple colors.


I think that there is a cheaper alternative - silicone servo wire.
This one: https://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=6904








This is 3x22AWG and it can pass through a 3mm hole.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

An illustrated view on 2010 / no comments -> https://lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/NY2011


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I have almost finished with the head units:









The maj. diameter is 28mm, the total length (with bar/helmet mount) is about 50mm.
Any L332/L333 module can be installed (up to 1400 lumens)
This project is updated here


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

a loop holder update:









the bar and helmet mounts come next...


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

finished parts (black chrome plating)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

just some fresh pics, luxury deep black titanium nitride (TiCN) coating



















from left to right: natural polished chrome, black chrome and black titanium nitride


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

some fresh pics from my lab

hot body air flow dynamics (11 watts running on full for about 1 hour)










the tri-color battery indicator:










Green - above 75%, 
yellow - between 30% and 75%, 
red - below 30% 
and flashing red when empty.

and as usual I welcome everybody to the blog for more pics, news and discussions Lux-RC Labs - Products - Complete Lights - FL33 System


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

a very good quality high resolution youtube video is made by rozopt (disregard the color, the natural chrome version is discontinued now, but the whole concept/size is the same)

lux-rc FL33 XP-E R3 18650


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

*Carclo 20mm triple optic*

I need 2 of these carclo narrow triple optics 10507 to complete my lights with the Lux-RC modules.

does anybody know a shop where i can buy them at a reasonable price?
Shipping would be to austria - this is the killer at the shops i found!

Thanks for your help :thumbsup:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Cutter Electronics  in Australia. Other side of the world but they have them


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

thanks, but the optics are $3,5 for two pcs. and the shipping is $14!!!

Cheaper shipping costs will be nice!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

$14 to ship something from one side of the world to the other, it costs almost that much to ship it to the next state.

So your optics are $9 a pop and that'll give you a killer light, c'mon.

Doesn't quazzle have any?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Quazzle has them on his site..$9.50 each
Plus $12 shipping
Lux-RC Labs - Products - Secondary Optics - L333 20mm - Order Now

$1.50 each
$22 shipping
10507 Narrow Lens - LED Supply.com

Don't know how much shipping is 
10507 Carclo Technical Plastics LED Lighting Lenses


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Try this Electronics Shop for Multimedia, Computing, Car Entertainment - Conrad Electronic SE Online Store
Register and get a €5 voucher..
€2.07 each

Carclo 10507

Says for luxeon rebel but part number is the same..

Sounds great so far?

Shipping to Austria

€ 19.99

Looks like shipping will cost you no matter where you get them from.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Right try this..
Carclo 10507 $1.99 each
Shipping United States Postal Service (First-Class Mail International Parcel)

$3.25
https://illuminationsupply.com/carc...5.html?zenid=3c7db5b4269a65087067a4b0fa225549


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

thanks Goldigger!
Ordered from illuminationsupply - thats a real deal!

Just for information: found another shop too with low shipping costs to austria:
10507 | LUXEON Rebel 10 mm Narrow Beam Triple Optic | CARCLO OPTICS - Future Electronics


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

bored at work Goldigger? 


Nice finds


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

emu26 said:


> bored at work Goldigger?
> 
> Nice finds


Nope..finished being bored at work 6.5hours ago 
Just sitting in front of crappy evening TV.. Them prices from illuminationsupply are crazy..


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

they really are!!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Whitedog1 said:


> Just for information: found another shop too with low shipping costs to austria:
> 10507 | LUXEON Rebel 10 mm Narrow Beam Triple Optic | CARCLO OPTICS - Future Electronics


Sorry guys, I have to withdraw:

Futureelectronics is shipping with FedEx and the shipping costs are as low as $43 to austria :nono: :eekster: :skep:

So, Illuminationsupply is still the best! :thumbsup:
Followed closely by Conrad.at with €5,5 shipping costs! 

Now..... trying to get some sleep it's 00:05 here....:madman:


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