# Powder coat fades?



## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

A local frame builder prefers urethane paint over powder coat, citing that the latter fades after only "a short period of time." 

I'm not questioning his words, as he is likely speaking from experience. My question is, would the fading powder coated color be a result of poor powder coating methods, poor quality paint or a combo of both?

I'm currently considering getting this frame builder make me a SS-specific MTB steel frame, and his default painting method (actually, he'll subcon it) is using Anzahl urethane paint. For comparison, I asked for a quote from a local powder coating place, and it would cost one-third the price of the "wet" paint the builder quoted.

There aren't too many powder coaters here in the Philippines to date, so I'm thinking the quality isn't right up there with the US-based outfits just yet. I'd really prefer having the frame powder coated for durability/longevity, but if the currently available PC'ers can't do a good job, then I'll need to settle for the wet paint method.

Any thoughts on this?


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Either bad powder and/or bad application. Fading shouldn't be a problem.. much less so than paint.

-Schmitty-


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

Schmitty said:


> Either bad powder and/or bad application. Fading shouldn't be a problem.. much less so than paint.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Um, I have to disagree with that. If you are comparing quality powder with quality wet, UV resistance should be about the same.

He is how it works. All coating components that are quality items have UV inhibitors added to them. These are just that, they inhibit, but do not stop UV all together. All of them have a lifespan, with the quality stuff this can be up to 10 years of direct sun. Colors also fade at different rates depending on their absorption spectrum. Neons, etc fad faster than other colors.

In reality Schmitty wet paint can last a whole lot longer than powder because there are many multiple layers of clear, all of which have UV inhibitors. Now if that powder also has a layer of clear (either powder or wet) with UV inhibitors the same resistance will be afforded but a single layer powder job vs. a multi-layer wet job, it is no contest. Wet will win that one.

My guess r1gel is that your builders source just doesn't use high quality components is all. If the powder is done well it should leave you with a very long life span.

But on to wet. People poo-poo wet and that just isn't so. A really well done wet job is super durable, will outlast powder, offers better corrosion resistance and just looks 100% better to boot. I also offer bed liner paint jobs. Yep bed liner. This two part catalyzed product can be tinted. It has an epoxy primer to prevent corrosion and you cannot, I mean cannot screw it up. A little industrial but no more so than some of the powder jobs I have seen.

The cost difference? Powder wins every time. There is much less labor to apply powder and therefore it costs less. The environmental factor? Personally I think that powder and wet is about the same. Wet probably wins. Yes, you don't have a lot of VOC's with powder but then again you have to power up an oven and the electricity to do that usually comes from a coal burning power plant. Wet doesn't require nearly the energy load and we are talking about ounces of paint here, not gallons. The oven gets fired up no matter what.

All the best,

Dave Bohm
Bohemian Bicycles


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

Excellent!

Thanks for the thorough and very informative input Dave! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I appreciate your rationalising on the differences on the envi impact of the 2 methods (I'm an envi scientist) :thumbsup:

cheers



dbohemian said:


> Um, I have to disagree with that. If you are comparing quality powder with quality wet, UV resistance should be about the same.
> 
> He is how it works. All coating components that are quality items have UV inhibitors added to them. These are just that, they inhibit, but do not stop UV all together. All of them have a lifespan, with the quality stuff this can be up to 10 years of direct sun. Colors also fade at different rates depending on their absorption spectrum. Neons, etc fad faster than other colors.
> 
> ...


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

dbohemian said:


> I also offer bed liner paint jobs. Yep bed liner. This two part catalyzed product can be tinted. It has an epoxy primer to prevent corrosion and you cannot, I mean cannot screw it up. A little industrial but no more so than some of the powder jobs I have seen.


Do you have pictures of any bikes done in this?


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

jay_ntwr said:


> Do you have pictures of any bikes done in this?


Oh, I was a slacker and never took any. I have only done it twice so far but the results where good.

I have been trying to push it locally a little as a tough, low cost option but everyone just goes with the fancy paint I do.... Uggh.

I will post some pics the next time I do it...I think you will like it.

Dave B
Bohemian


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Anything is possible with powdercoat 
If you have a good vendor .
Pictured below is a powdercoat 4 process fade


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## vavaroutsos (Feb 15, 2009)

Evil4bc said:


> Anything is possible with powdercoat
> If you have a good vendor .
> Pictured below is a powdercoat 4 process fade


Eliv4bc, I don't think that's what he meant. I think he was asking about the color getting washed out/faded from sun, etc.. While I have seen some pretty slick stuff done in powder, I still have never seen anything that rivals the detail and quality that can be done with a wet paint job.

~petev


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

vavaroutsos said:


> Eliv4bc, I don't think that's what he meant. I think he was asking about the color getting washed out/faded from sun, etc.. While I have seen some pretty slick stuff done in powder, I still have never seen anything that rivals the detail and quality that can be done with a wet paint job.
> 
> ~petev


Pete

Oops thats what I get for not reading .

Powdercoat should not fade in direct sunlight , most powder's are UV protected .

As far as detail on powder vs wet paint , wet paint is easier to mask spray and touch up .
If you want a good example of how involved powder coat can get look at any of the Santa-Cruz team bikes , these are all powder-coated .


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

I am interested in how that works. To be honest I don't know for sure. 

I know a lot of companies put down a powder base and then use a wet paint, either waterborne or solvent for the graphics and then a clear.

I have also heard of shooting a dye or something similar into a clear powder carrier before one of the heating processes? 

As far as powders ability for graphics, people are doing some really neat stuff, but I think wet will be around in some form or another for just about forever because it really excels at things like this. As nice as that fade above is, I could carry that across a whole tube if you wished with my airbrush and you wouldn't know where it started or ended.

Dave B
Bohemian


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