# Would you prefer the L&M Seca 700 or two Magicshines?



## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I have a Triden X right now but am thinking of moving to something else. Kind of thinking of 2 Magicshines or the Seca 700. The 900 is really overkill isn't it?


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

The Triden X is a really nice light - why would you downgrade to a Magicshine?

I'd stick with the Triden X - no need to "upgrade" to a Seca 700 in my opinion (if you have a Li-ion Triden X).

If it's more light you're after, there are better options than a MS. Stick with quality. Now I'll go brace myself for the MS fanboys to jump on me.


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## KingOfTheHill (Sep 19, 2007)

I never really answered your question - I'd take a Seca 700.


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## Fender Roads (Jan 31, 2008)

*Why switch?*

First of all... I'd go with the Seca myself. Great company that stands (long term) behind their products. Now I know that many people on this forum can rip apart and mod a magic shine, but I myself just don't feel inclined to go about doing so. L&M is also a local company (for me), ecologically responsible in their manufacturing and their lights are made in the states...

I have the cygolite... I find it to be quite a good light. Is there a problem with yours? You could always go with that on the bars and a small light on the helmet for much less (e.g. Stella or even the Trustfire 801's on DX).


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Yeah, now I'm thinking a Mitycross 350 on the helmet would go well with the TridenX on the bars. I've been using the TridenX on the helmet with the battery in my backpack but it's kind of heavy on the helmet, if you know what I mean.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Jun 7, 2009)

I like the idea of an MS in this time of rapid improvements to LED. I will spend the big bucks on better quality when the lights have plateaued a bit and I will have less desire to upgrade. All the current lights will be obsolete (far outperformed) by end of 2010 and I will feel better if my light is only $89 than several hundred. I have been here before...


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

Maximus_XXIV said:


> I like the idea of an MS in this time of rapid improvements to LED. I will spend the big bucks on better quality when the lights have plateaued a bit and I will have less desire to upgrade. All the current lights will be obsolete (far outperformed) by end of 2010 and I will feel better if my light is only $89 than several hundred. I have been here before...


That's a very good point and something I hadn't fully considered. Only problem is it not clear the rapid improvement in LED technology will end anytime soon. Seems like the major light makers need a better upgrade strategy if they want people to spend $500+ on a light that'll likely be obsolete in a year.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I don't think that a $500 is really obsolete in one year or even two. Seriously, if you get a 700 lumen light... it'll still be 700 lumens in two or three years and that's a heck of a lotta light no matter what else is available! I haven't seen a test of the MS light in true tested lumens but I bet it's down around 350 or so from the pics of the beams I've seen.


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## Maximus_XXIV (Jun 7, 2009)

Based on feedback, I would think more than 350. I am not sure it has been tested.

Will 700 lumens be enough for you in a year. That is the question to be asked. I personally think we will see good lights in the $200-$300 range in a year or so that far exceed 700 lumens. More manufacturers are entering the market and that will bring prices down.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

gticlay said:


> I haven't seen a test of the MS light in true tested lumens but I bet it's down around 350 or so from the pics of the beams I've seen.


I can assure it not anywhere near that low. For one, you can go to this link and actually see how the MS compares to the TridenX Li-ion. It's about the same and the TridneX is claimed to be 600 lumens.

Based on other lights that I have, I feel confident in saying it's right around 600 lumen.

To answer the original posters question, if you already have the TridenX, keep it, it's a nice light. If you want more light, then add an MS. Those two together will give you more then enough light.
Plus having 2 separate lights (one on bars, one on helmet) is better then one.

I can't comment on the Seca 700 part of your question, as I'd never spend that much for one light LOL!


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Fender Roads said:


> Now I know that many people on this forum can rip apart and mod a magic shine, but I myself just don't feel inclined to go about doing so..


Why would you need to "rip apart and mod" the magicshine?? Are you still going off the OLD information in the early posts about this light? Keep up man! Improvements have already been made.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

fightnut said:


> I can assure it not anywhere near that low. For one, you can go to this link and actually see how the MS compares to the TridenX Li-ion. It's about the same and the TridneX is claimed to be 600 lumens.


380 measured lumens from the tridenX
http://www.bikelights.com/info.asp?uid=358


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

znomit said:


> 380 measured lumens from the tridenX
> http://www.bikelights.com/info.asp?uid=358


That is exactly why I thought the MS might be around 350 or so.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

gticlay said:


> I don't think that a $500 is really obsolete in one year or even two. Seriously, if you get a 700 lumen light... it'll still be 700 lumens in two or three years and that's a heck of a lotta light no matter what else is available! I haven't seen a test of the MS light in true tested lumens but I bet it's down around 350 or so from the pics of the beams I've seen.


I agree if you mostly ride alone. But, if you ride with groups it causes problems when others in your group buy the latest brightest lights. If someone is riding behind you with twice as much light, your light isn't bright enough to overcome the shadows cast from the brighter light behind you. Your eyes adjust to the light level of the brighter lights.

Personally, I think a 200 lumen bar and a 200 lumen helmet light is sufficient light for night riding. Especially if your goal is to make night riding a little more challenging than riding during the day. If everyone would stick to lights of those levels, all would be good. But, there's no way that's going to happen. Consumers are always going to flock to whatever is brightest and the light makers will be happy to make and sell lights that are twice as bright as last year.

If consumers flocked to lights that were twice as small, lightweight, and cheap as last year, then the advances in LED technology could be applied to that goal and this would all be different ball game.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

gticlay said:


> That is exactly why I thought the MS might be around 350 or so.


I have a Magicshine light as well as a pretty large selection of other HID and LED lights. In subjective comparison to many other lights on the trail. I'd say it's in the 500-600 lumen range.

It's slightly brighter than every HID light I have, except for the ones based on the New Solarc NGX 1000 lumen bulb / ballast.

I'm not saying the Magicshine is the perfect light. I have a very recent model and I did have to take it apart and fix a poor solder joint to correct an intermittent shutoff problem. It also had minimal thermal compound so I corrected that as well. So, assuming you don't mind working through any potential quality issues either through warranty exchanges or fixing them yourself, it's a pretty impressive light for the money. If you value a very low chance of having problems, you should probably look at more established brands. Personally, I think Dinotte makes good lights.

I agree with the poster that said L&M's previous lights were good. The current LED lights...not so much.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

700 lumens is good, until you run into someone like me on the trail that normally rides with 2500+ lumens (My Eva Twin + X5). Then, no matter how often you say to yourself 700 is ok, you won't be happy anymore, trust me. I used to ride with a single 12 watt halogen and was 100% happy too.. until I saw that first HID...

Without being to upgrade in the future, as LED technolgy is flying along in leaps an dbounds ... I don't think I could suggest shelling out the money for something that is a) expensive and b) not upgradeable a year from now. LM is out.

I can't suggest either actually, as one is pretty dam expensive (although a quality piece) and the other is my opinion poorly designed import junk. ...oh well ...good luck


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## Fender Roads (Jan 31, 2008)

*Oh, I don't know...*



fightnut said:


> Why would you need to "rip apart and mod" the magicshine?? Are you still going off the OLD information in the early posts about this light? Keep up man! Improvements have already been made.


Maybe from the post that stated:
"I have a very recent model and I did have to take it apart and fix a poor solder joint to correct an intermittent shutoff problem. It also had minimal thermal compound so I corrected that as well. So, assuming you don't mind working through any potential quality issues either through warranty exchanges or fixing them yourself, it's a pretty impressive light for the money."

I've stayed up on the products from DX... some products still seem to suffer from quality control issues. For the price, it can be hard to beat. But soldering connections isn't everyones forte and not everyone has thermal paste lying around... etc.


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Fender Roads said:


> Maybe from the post that stated:
> "I have a very recent model and I did have to take it apart and fix a poor solder joint to correct an intermittent shutoff problem. It also had minimal thermal compound so I corrected that as well. So, assuming you don't mind working through any potential quality issues either through warranty exchanges or fixing them yourself, it's a pretty impressive light for the money."
> 
> I've stayed up on the products from DX... some products still seem to suffer from quality control issues. For the price, it can be hard to beat. But soldering connections isn't everyones forte and not everyone has thermal paste lying around... etc.


The thing is, you have to put it in perspective. There have probably been hundreds of these lights sold (and remember, it only came on the market within the last 6 months or so!).
So yeah, there are going to be a few bad ones in the mix. But if we rounded up a couple hundred owners of some other specific brand/model of high end light, I'm sure there would be a few problems/complaints among them as well.

And nobody HAS to take it apart and solder anything, they can send it back as long as it's still under warranty.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I don't have time to f-around with hobby-lights. I'm just going to go with the Cygolite Mitycross 350 and the TridenX Combo. I just found out you can change the focus lenses and go from the more focused beam to a more dispersed beam in the TridenX (and probably the Mitycross too). It comes with beams on the sides and a more diffused middle but they told me a lot of people like the beam for the middle one too.

I like all the banter and advice, so thanks guys!!

OH, and there was a guy modding the TridenX last year... any idea what kind of LEDs would drop right into the NiMH TridenX? I'd give up some runtime for some retina searing power.


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## Dscarbs (Feb 1, 2004)

*Funny I was in the same boat and.....*

Bought a Trail LED 4x @ about 850 lumens for a great price for the power. Very small, and Trail LED worked hard to custom make me the light to my exact needs.. Definitely check it out... I did not want to spend the coin on a Seca unit, and did not trust the magic shines....I have had the light for a couple of weeks and couldnt be happier,


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Cool, thanks for the suggestion. I went with a TridenX Li-ion and a Mitycross 350 Li-ion. I still have the Ni-MH and might mod it with those new fancy Cree XP-G's that just came out, just for fun.


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

Two beats one. Any number of things can cause a light to fail- battery, cable, switch, electronics, etc. If you have two you'll likely never ride home in the dark. (I had an old two lamp halogen system and an extra battery and cable. The only non-redundant part of it was the switch. Needless to say the switch failed- luckily before a ride, not during )


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## dsnow23 (Mar 22, 2008)

A friend of mine just got the Seca 700 and it is REALLY bright. I have a Light & Motion Solo Logic MV rated at 390 lumens and it is nowhere near as bright as the 700. Totally different league. His seca is making me want to upgrade even though my Solo Logic is really good enough for most of the night riding I do. Even though I'm very impressed with the Seca, I'm not going to spend that kind of money on a light. I'm not an endurance racer, and I don't ride at night as much as I'd like to. I'm considering the magicshine. If they continue to get good feedback, I'll probably get one. I've been riding with only one light, but I'd like to have one for the helmet and for the bars.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

I own a Magicshine and I know that I would not be happy running two of them as my setup. Having two of the same beams with the hotspot in the middle would not be ideal. The Magicshines have the bright center spot and then the light drastically diminishes as it goes to the spill area. I found out after testing it along with my Betty and Wilma that you need something to fill in the area that the Magicshine is weak in which is the area where the center spot ends. A light like the Betty or Wilma lay down a blanket of light that is even throughout and this works well when Combined with the Magicshine beam. Certainly you can't beat the price of a magicshine and two magicshines are better than one, but it just wouldn't be ideal in my opinion. Gticlay, enjoy your new lights!


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*Two Magicshine Lights are better than one indeed*



MtbMacgyver said:


> I have a Magicshine light as well as a pretty large selection of other HID and LED lights. In subjective comparison to many other lights on the trail. I'd say it's in the 500-600 lumen range.
> 
> It's slightly brighter than every HID light I have, except for the ones based on the New Solarc NGX 1000 lumen bulb / ballast.
> 
> ...





johnnyspoke said:


> I have one of the Magishine lights from Geoman. HOLY SMOKES it's bright. I used to run to dinotte 200l's....this is quite a bit brighter. I still run one dinotte on my helmet, but I can't really see it unless I look a different direction than the bars are pointing. For 89 bucks shipped, it's really a screaming deal. If I was getting a couple lights with a 200 budget, I'd look no further. Heck, even if I had DOUBLE to spend, I'd get the magicshines and use the rest for other stuff.


Cool feedback; nice to hear Magicshine Led Lightset handily beats the Dinotte 200Lumen LED Lightset engine.

Magicshine High Intensity LED Lightset based on the newly updated SSC-P7 Seoul Semiconductor quad core chip LED which typically produces 700lm when current is driven thru the LED chip at 2800mA with a forward voltage of 3.6V and able to produce 90 lumens per watt of energy consumed.

Post generally discusses comparing the SSC-P7 based LED Lightset 666lumen (Magicshine) versus the SSC-P4 based LED Lightset 200lumen (Dinotte 200L).

Parameters compared:

Cost per lumen comparison
battery run times comparison
physical setup comparison
physical configuration comparison
mounting options comparison
extending lightset run times comparison
lithium ion battery chemistry options comparison
LED Lightset beam quality comparisons hi/med/low intensities comparison
LED Lightset specifications comparison
Total Power in Watts generated by battery comparison
Total Power consumed at full load per hour-- high intensity comparison
Total Current consumed at full load power per hour -- high intensity comparison
Total Current consumed at low load -- low intensity -- low intensity comparison
Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination comparison
Total Power consumed at low illumination -- low intensity comparison
How many hours at low power with rated battery pack -- low intensity comparison
How many Lumens generated by LED Lamp at full power -- high intensity comparison
How many watts consumed by lamp at full illumination -- high intensity comparison
How many hours at high power with rated battery pack -- high intensity comparison
How much current consumed by LED lamp at medium power -- medium intensity comparison
How many watts consumed by LED lamp at medium power -- medium intensity comparison
How many hours at medium power with rated battery pack -- medium intensity comparison
Detailed indepth review on the SSC-P7 based LED Lightset 666lumen (Magicshine)
regarding above line item parameters

post has been revised to include all of the above information as of Oct 15 900am.

read/review post information and comment on any of the above line item parameters above if you have any information to add, amplify, or clarify that would make it a better and more informative posting for the benefit of the forum community readers; as that is purpose of posting.
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Dinotte 200L-AA-S Bike Headlight is a basic solid entry level 200lumen lightset that uses conventional readily obtainable rechargeable/disposable "AA" batteries almost everywhere inexpensively.

Dinotte 200L-AA-S Bike Headlight retails for approximately $150 that yields approximately 75cents per lumen which is a great deal for a great and well known reputable LED Lightset thrower/illuminator. (link provided for your reference if needed):

http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product_10053_10052_143922_-1_201529_10000_201537

The Magicshine MJ-808 retails for approximately $85 that yields approximately 12.8cents per lumen assuming approximately 666lumens, which is a great deal for a great throwing and illuminating LED Lightset that is giving the major light engine manufacturers a serious run for their money. (link provided for your reference if needed):

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php...ducts_id=138&zenid=tt8s64l8vo6338paikjv9i1732

Even better still get an additional Magicshine LED Lightset, one for the helmet mount and one for the handlebar mount to double up on illumination; with one providing fixed illumination duties on the handlebars and the other one providing variable point to shoot flood/spill illumination on the helmet.::thumbsup:

Now of course if one needed, wanted or desired to construct a "betty killer" illumination setup on a budget, one could always combo a third Magicshine on the handlebar and aim one far away down the road in the distance and one closer in front of the bicycle wheel so as to provide general flood illumination in front of the wheel as well as provide generally more dedicated far away illumination in the distance.:thumbsup: 

An added advantage of such a "betty killer" configuration setup would be the actual beam width would be naturally doubled also as well by having a double led lightset engine upfront as opposed to only a single lightset engine configuration setup.:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The helmet mounted configuration would still be providing variable point to shoot flood/spill illumination on the helmet in its normally advantageous higher mounted illumination light source mounting position.

The combination of the three independent lighting sources (2handlebar/1helmet) even on the medium setting on the Magicsine LED Lightset (which is rated for 500lumens apiece) times three led light sources would add up to 1,500lumens; making the triple Magicshine LED Lightset a potential "betty killer" customized hybrid LED light configuration setup for less than $255.:thumbsup:

By running the Magicshine LED Lightset at only the medium(500lument) setting one can extend and optimize the total LED lightset total runtime to four hours or so; while still outputting sufficient the same 1500lumens lumination intensity.

Extending total light output plus 500Lumen High Power LED Lightset runtimes beyond fours is not only feasible but easily obtainable/affordable via cheap upgrades to the Li-Ion battery subsystem via an external battery pack. (link provided for your reference if needed):

Higher quality newer Polymer Li-Ion chemistry 9aH external battery pack $80.00(not composed of 18650 cells) but composed of two 3.7V 9aH Polymer Li-Ion cells(good for >500recharges) $8.88 per amp::thumbsup:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionbattery74v9ah666whwithpcb.aspx

For those concerned with their Li-Ion chemistry external battery pack catching fire one can always opt for the safer alternative of encasing the external battery pack in an accompanying enclosure.:thumbsup:

Higher quality newer Polymer Li-Ion chemistry 10aH external battery pack $140.00(also not composed of 18650 cells) but composed of four 3.7V 5aH Polymer Li-Ion cell(good for >500recharges) $14.00 per amp complete with trail tech connectors:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymer...wh7arateinplasticenclsouretrial-techplug.aspx

For those concerned with their Li-Ion chemistry external battery pack catching fire one can always opt for the safer alternative of encasing the external battery pack in an accompanying enclosure while extending their total training run times for ultra-long illumination intervals an option might be.

Higher quality newer Polymer Li-Ion chemistry 25.2aH external battery pack $180.00(also not composed of 18650 cells) but composed of four 7.4V 12.6aH Polymer Li-Ion cell(good for >500recharges) $7.14 per amp complete with trail tech connectors::thumbsup:

http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionboxbattery74v252ah18648wh14aratewithtrial-techplug.aspx

The interesting thing with the mega capacity $180.00 25.2aH external Polymer Li-Lion battery pack would be capable of running all three Magicshine LED Lightsets in "betty killer 1500lumen mode" for approximately 7.5hours and still have the original three 4.4aH Magicshine Li-Ion batteries using them as backup for a total combined estimated run time of 11.5hours while still coming in well under betty budget busing led lightset and battery upgrade prices -->>$255 triple Magicshine MJ-808 plus $180 enhanced Polymer Li-Ion external battery subsystem equals $435 (29cents per lumen-->>1,500lumens) for the ultimate customized 1,500lumen "betty killer" running for up to 11.5 hours non-stop. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

feel free to chime in with feedback response and/or ideas on the ultimate "betty killer" mode design.
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for your reference I have included a weblink that illustrates some of the major LED Lightset manufactures and their respective beam characteristic patterns:

http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/
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for your reference I have also in addition included the link of the Magicshine Lightset Manufacturer MJ-808 for their specification page below:

http://www.headlamp.cn/productsShow.asp?id=321
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from the above specified link for the MinJin and geomangear (http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...38paikjv9i1732
) one can derive:

The batteries are 7.4VDC lithium ion batteries with 4.4AH of capacity that drives the battery for about three hours
and the low brightness illumination setting is 30percent of total illumination (200 lumens) and the medium brightness illumination
setting is five hundred lumens.
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Now using rudimentary high school electricity/physics equations:

Power equals Voltage times Current

Voltage equals Current times Resistance

Voltage equals Power divided by Current

Resistance equals Voltage divided by Current

Current equals Voltage divided by Resistance
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From the above source known values one can find:
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Total Power in Watts generated by battery:

Power equals Voltage times Current

Power equals 7.4VDC times 4.4AH

Power equals 32.56Watts generated by battery over three hours:thumbsup: 
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Total Power consumed at full load per hour:

Power equals Total Power divided by Time

Power equals 32.56Watt divided by three hours

Power equals 10.85Watts consumed at full load per hour:thumbsup: 
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Total Current consumed at full load power per hour:

Total Current equals Power consumed in hour at full load divided by Voltage

Total Curent equals 10.85Watts divided by 7.4VDC

Total Current equals 1.466AH per hour:thumbsup: 
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Total Current consumed at 30 percent full load (low Magicshine setting):

Low illumination current (200lumens) equals Total Current time 30 percent of total current full load current illumination

Low illumination current (200lumens) equals 1.46AH time 0.30

Low illumination current (200lumens) equals 440maH at 200lumens:thumbsup: 
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Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination:

Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination equals low illumination current consumed divided by Lumen

Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination equals 440mA divided by one Lumen

Total current consumed to generate lumen of illumination equals 2.2ma/Lumen:thumbsup: 
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Total Power consumed at low illumination Magicshine setting (200lumens) equals Voltage times Current

Total Power consumed at low illumination Magicshne setting (200lumens) equals 7.4VDC times 440maH

Total Power consumed at low illumination Magicshine setting (200lumens) equals 3.26Watts low power wattage:thumbsup: 
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How many hours at low power (200lumens) illumination with 7.4VDC and 4.4aH rated Li-Ion battery

Time in hours at low illumination power setting(200lumens) equals Li-Ion Battery current rating divided per hour low setting current draw

Time in hours at low illumination power setting(200lumens) equals 4.4aH divided 440maH

Time in hours at low illumination power setting(200lumens) equals 10 hours:thumbsup: 
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How many Lumens generated by Magicshine Lamp at high illumination setting at full power:

High illumination current flow equals 1.466aH

Current consumed per Lumen produced equals 2.2maH per Lumen

Lumens generated by Lamp at high illumination equals high illumination current flow divided by current consumed per lumen generated

Lumens generated by Lamp at high illumination equals 1.466aH divided by 2.2maH

Lumens generated by Lamp at high illumination equals 666Lumens:thumbsup:

Hey guys that's about what the max value for a type "C" bin P7 LED Lightset engine should produce ballpark depending on course of the particular driver used in application.
---------------------------------
How many watts consumed by lamp at full illumination.

Total Power consumed at high illumination Magicshine setting (666 lumens) equals Voltage times Current

Total Power consumed at high illumination Magicshne setting (666 lumens) equals 7.4VDC times 1.466aH

Total Power consumed at high illumination Magicshine setting (666lumens) equals 10.85Watts high power wattage:thumbsup:
---------------------------------
How many hours at high power (666lumens) illumination with 7.4VDC and 4.4aH rated Li-Ion battery

Time in hours at high illumination power setting(666lumens) equals Li-Ion Battery current rating divided per hour high setting current draw

Time in hours at high illumination power setting(666lumens) equals 4.4aH divided 1.466aH

Time in hours at high illumination power setting(666lumens) equals 3 hours:thumbsup:

Hey guys, that is about what everyone is getting about three hours on high Magicshine setting.
---------------------------------
How much current consumed by Lamp at Medium setting (500lumens)

Current consumed at Medium setting (500lumens) equals Medium lumens times maH per Lumens

Current consumed at Medium setting (500lumens) equals 500Lumens times 2.2maH per Lumen

Current consumed at Medium setting (500lumens) equals 1.10aH:thumbsup: 
-----------------------------------
How many watts consumed bye lamp at Medium (500lumens) illumination.

Total Power consumed at Medium illumination Magicshine setting (500 lumens) equals Voltage times Current

Total Power consumed at Medium illumination Magicshne setting (500 lumens) equals 7.4VDC times 1.10aH

Total Power consumed at Medium illumination Magicshine setting (500lumens) equals 8.14Watts Medium power wattage:thumbsup:
-----------------------------------
How many hours at Medium power (500lumens) illumination with 7.4VDC and 4.4aH rated Li-Ion battery

Time in hours at Medium illumination power setting(500lumens) equals Li-Ion battery current rating divided by per hour medium setting current draw.

Time in hours at Medium illumination power setting(500umens) equals 4.4aH divided by 1.10aH

Time in hours at Medium illumination power setting(500lumens) equals 4 hours:thumbsup:
-------------------------------------
Cheers, whew that was a heck of a review of high school electricity/physics review.

I actually had to crack open the books to review and practice.
--------------------------------------
Nice to review and know how to calculate the origins and answers from source derivative information but it all seems to check out as the answers seem to check out and are in what's called the "ball park" from what I have read on here in the mtbr and candlepower forums.
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Review for Newly Purchased Magicshine MJ-808 P7 Based High Intensity LED Lightset Kit from Geoman is below as follows for your review and consideration:

Ordered the Magicshine P7 Based High Power LED Lightset Engine from Geoman. Order was processed promptly and accurately by Geoman. I am upgrading from a slightly dated led lightset in the form of a Princeton Switchback 1; so this will be a significant upgrade in terms of overall light lumen intensity.

I have seen some very good posted beamshots of the P7 Based Magicshine LED Lightset from a search on the internet; some very impressive looking illumination shots. I am willing to give the Magicshine MJ-808 high power led lightset the same chance I did with the Princeton Switchback I; as it looks like a great potential High Power Bicycle LED Lightset engine in the under one hundred dollar category.

As soon as I get the Magicshine after it ships from Geoman, I will factually share information of first product LED lightset impressions and in the field LED lightset impressions.

I got the Magicshine P7 Based High Power LED Lightset Engine from Geoman, the day after Columbus Day. Geoman by the way threw in the helmet mount as an added unexpected bonus to the Magicshine P7 based LED lightset kit. Many appreciative thanks to the Geoman or "G" Man for short.

I measured the Magicshine P7 based LED lightset head diameter dimension and it comes out to 1.5 inches and is 2 inches in lighthead depth for those concerned about it being bulky and/or heavy it definitely is lightweight as promised. The pushbutton on the back of the Magicshine LED lightset is about the size of a dime and is lit up with a green glowing LED when plugged into the 4.4aH Lithium Ion based battery pack.

The Magicshine lighthead bezel has a cool scalloped bezel design that makes it look very modern in styling. The Magicshine lighthead body behind the lighthead bezel has a concentric grooved cooling ridged design, with a professionally black anodized aluminum surface to help cool the LED lighthead.

The Magicshine lighthead power cord that goes to the external Lithium Ion based battery pack is a generous 45 inches long to allow the flexibility of mounting the battery pack wherever convienently desired.

If you enjoy the appearance and physical body design of the Lupine Tesla design this looks similar in most aspects and you will definitely like its cool, streamlined, sleek, lean body based looking LED Lightset design overall.

The external Lithium Ion battery pack is 2.75 inches height tall body and has side dimension of 1.5 inches on each side; so it is relatively small and lightweight with a nylon pouch included to allow one to wrap it underneath the handlebar near where the LED Lighthead is to be mounted on the handlebars.

The Magicshine P7 based lightset kit also comes with an AC adapter designed specifically to recharge the Lithium Ion based external battery pack rapidly/quickly and its DC output voltage is listed as 8.4VDC so as to enable the rapid recharging of the 7.4VDC external battery pack at a current rate of approximately 1.8aH equivalent to a recharging rate of 30ma per minute.

The external Lithium Ion battery pack only took about an hour to top off its charge and turn from the red glowing led on the recharging AC adapter to a green glowing led.

I followed the included yellow instruction sheet from the Geoman which clearly outlined the simple and self explanatory procedure to follow to cycle through the various five modes; the high, the med, the low mode intensities of illumination, along with the high frequency flash mode setting and the final strobe mode setting before going back to totally turning off the LED Lightset completely.

The two black latex mounting o-rings included are sized 1.5 and 2.0 inches respectively and the thickness of the two black latex mounting o-rings included are both 3/16 of an inch thick which looks like it can be bought at any local hardware store having black latex o-rings available or at geomangear for $4 for the small/large o-ring paired 1.5/2.0 inch o-ring set.

The included yellow instruction sheet also notes and mentions information regarding the lithium-ion battery should last approximately 300-500 charge/discharge cycles typically.

The sheet also mentions the lithium ion battery pack prefers partial discharges as opposed
to full discharges to lengthen, optimize and enhance the lithium ion battery packs longevity.

The lithium ion battery pack prefers to be discharged no more than 60% of total capacity:
4400maH times 0.60 equals 2,640maH. This would be equivalent to approzimately two and a quarter hours on medium(500lumens) illumination setting as a conservative estimate or alternatively one and three quarter hours on the highest illumination setting.

If one needed additional battery capacity requirements on the day of bicycle tour or ride as a battery backup or extension to battery reserve capacity; Geoman has spare/extra Lithium Ion battery packs for $40 per extra battery pack; also as well.

This is altogether, not a bad idea as in the colder upcoming autumn weather Lithium Ion battery pack capacity may be compromised by at least ten percent or more in total run time/capacity.

I will be taking the Magicshine P7 based lightset out on the local streets where I live with an outside temperature of about 48 degrees F here in New Jersey, running the lightset on the highest lumen P7 LED setting for about an hour or so in order to test the overall general lighting and beam width/depth/quality first impressions.

I will also use the helmet mounting option first as Geoman was so generous to have included it in the Magicshine lightset kit; so I figure I might as well test that also as well at the same time as testing the Magicshine Lightset overall.

Its was fairly easy and relatively self explanatory to use and mount the large two inch diameter black latex o-ring around the horn on the base of the LED Lightset and then thru the helmet mounting base and the other end of the o-ring around to the other side of the horn on the base of the LED Lightset to secure the Lightset engine securely.

The 3/16 of an inch thick black latex o-ring can best be fitted on the front horn best by first removing the small phillips head screw to facilitate the temporary removal of the black anodized aluminum base of the LED Lightset to initially set the black latex o-ring in its assigned channel due to the fact the front mounted lightset wire temporarily obstructs the path for securely inserting the black latex o-ring for its initial placement position in its channel/lip.

The utility of moving ones head is useful to custom aim/direct the Magicshine P7 Led Lightset where it is best illuminated and seen on the ground both in front of the bicycle as well as in the far off distance at high lumen intensity to evaluate the merits of overall general bicycle lighting and the desired beam width/depth/quality first impressions.

An additional added unintended potential benefit for both the touring and/or mountain bike cyclists might be the head mounted Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine might better illuminate, reveal subsurface road obstructions and follow the irregular contours of the road better as well as reveal some of the more subtle shadows of road surface irregularities before inadvertently hitting them unintentionally; as a result of its higher vantage point helmet mounting position.

Furthermore an added unintentional potential consequential benefit of having the Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine mounted on the helmet might also help to further stabilize and reduce the undesired vibratory artifactual visual illumination based bouncing/shaking effects of mounting the Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine on the handlebars; for example while cycling on rough mountain trails, obstruction/roots strewn paths; one can dynamically aim ones head to light and illuminate the desired path ahead; well in advance.

Additionally, mountain/touring biking cyclists may also wish and/or desire getting a second Magicshine P7 based light engine also mounted on the helmet; to increase the depth, illumination and the desired characteristic led lightbeam width, shape and quality by aiming the two individual independent Magicshine Lightset Engines in combination together; one dedicated for close range illumination and the other for far away illumination; similar to benefits achieved using a double shot led lightset engine setup (i.e. cateye twinshot)

Moreover, having a second Magicshine P7 based light engine mounted on the helmet affords one additional adjustment and scalability options in the adjustment of the total lumens scalability value that can be selected by the user.

To help illustrate the point; reference column matrix below (reference column number by the bracket grouping):

First column ----->> First Led Lighthead(lumens) is streetside 
Second column ----->>Second Led Lighthead(lumens) is curbside
Third column ------>>Total Led Combination Lighthead(lumens) current draw along with battery run times for 4.4aH pack
Fourth column ------>>Derated battery run times for 4.4aH pack

(Off) / (200lumens(low)) / (200lumens equals 440ma / ten hours )--> (six hours(derated))

(200lumens(low)) / (200lumens(low)) / (400lumens equals 880ma / five hours) --> (three hours(derated))

(Off) / (500lumens(medium)) / (500lumens equals 1,100ma / four hours) --> (two hours +24min.(der.))

(Off) / (666lumens(high)) / (666lumens equals 1,466ma / three hours) --> (one hour +48min.(der.))

(200lumens(low)) / (500lumens(medium)) / (700lumens equals 1,540ma/two hours +51min)-->(one hr.+43min(der.))

(200lumens(low)) / (666lumens(high)) / (866lumens equals 1,905ma/two hours +18min)-->(one hr.+23min(der.))

(500lumens(medium)) / (500lumens(medium)) / (1,000lumens equals 2,200ma / two hours) -->(one hr.+12min.(derated))

(500lumens(medium)) / (666lumens(high)) / (1,166lumens equals 2,565ma / one hour +43min)-->(one hr.+2min(der.))

(666lumens(high)) / (666lumens(high)) / (1,332lumens equals 2,930ma / one hour +30min)-->(54minutes(derated))

The matrix table above shows just some of the potential possible combination that would become available for selection based on your personal preferences or circumstances on the night of the bicycle ride/tour.

Remember Lithium Ion batteries should not be discharged more than 60 per cent of total rated capacity.

4,400maH times 0.60 equals 2,640maH working current so make sure to derate the above calculated run times by 40 per cent,
in order to ensure one can potentially obtain the typical 500 Lithium Ion battery pack discharge cycles.

Derated run times is displayed for your reference if needed in the right last column in the matrix table.

Unfortunately, at the 1,000lumens, 1,166lumens and 1,322lumens illumination light levels the battery run times are only around an hour; so if continuous run times at these high intensity lumen light levels are anticipated, one would need extra Lithium Ion Battery packs to extend total run times to whatever one would need.

An investment in a quality P7 based Lightset is an investment in confident, safe and enjoyable nightime cycling. With that being said I will go into some amplifying details on some firsthand impressions of the Magicshine P7 based Lightset.

I definitely will have to say that the Magicshine P7 based Lightset Engine Kit is a very complete and impressively well put together kit; for the under the sub $100 category P7 based Lightset Engine.

The minimal very compact footprint profile and total weight of the lightset engine is sufficiently small that one can easily put two Magicshine Lightsets on ones helmet at the same time; as the lighthead is only about 240grams in weight along with its similarly lightweight and minimal 200gram external Lithium Ion based battery pack that is easily tucked away in ones rear cycling jersey pocket.

The forty-five inch cord from the lighthead that goes to the external battery pack is sufficiently long so as to easily reach ones rear cycling jersey pocket conveniently.

The dime sized rubber covered green glowing switch on the back of the lighthead has a nice tactile feedback quality and feel to it. The build qualty of the lighthead itself is decidedly excellent and solid in both feel and looks; which is very easy on the eyes due to the sleek black anodized coating on the lighthead's surface.

I went for my first ride last night with the Magicshine P7 based Lightset mounted on my helmet with the supplied helmet mounting bracket from Geoman. The helmet mount has a nice and great lightset head tilting adjustment feature that makes it easy to vary the vertical tilt angle evenly and smoothly in a controlled manner using only one hand; even while riding ones bicycle.

Kudos and many thanks to the Geoman for doing his homework and getting this helmet mounting bracket for his loyal and faithful customer/users; as I am sure that they will fully enjoy its exceptional utility and safety options it potentially offers to Magicshine Lightset users/customers.

All of you reading this are probably wondering how did the Magicshine P7 based Lightset perform. My initial trial bike ride with the Magicshine Lightset with it mounted to my provided helmet mount was for about an hour and fifteen minutes with the Lightset set on the highest lumen intensity for the entire ride.

The lighthead's beam quality is absolutely superb and intensely white and bright in intensity; with just the right amount of evenly divided spotlight and accompanying healthy amounts of needed desired spillover floodlight just outside the spotlight's corona.

Now being a user of the Princeton Tec Switchback I LED Lightset which is now a rather dated LED lightset; I just was not prepared for the light intensity in the LED spotlight and floodlight quality arena.

In comparison to the Princeton Tec Switchback I Lightset this is a spotlight and floodlight monster; as this is another level of bicycle lighting illumination altogether and will dramatically alter your nighttime cycling experience(s) at multiple level(s).

I was able to ride on my bicycle anywhere from approximately ten miles per hour on the flats to up to approximately twenty-two miles per hour on mildly sloping downhills with total utter confidence, safety and ability to see everything in front of the bicycle on the dark pitch black roadway.

As a result, I was able to rapidly settle into and enjoy my nighttime bicycle ride instead of worrying about being seen and also worrying about seeing what is in front of my bicycle safely. During the ride, I felt I never had to worry about slowing down for safety reasons; trying to read the road subsurface at night for potential road obstruction hazards or dangers.

I will have to definitely say this is one powerful and intense updated P7 based LED torch Lightset put out by the folks over at Magicshine and can safely say I have never seen or experienced such a high quality level of bicycle lighting illumination before in a bicycle lighting system. Kudos to the Geoman and Magicshine people for a job well done; to successfully bringing this product to the bicycle lighting market.

I have no doubt they will have no trouble selling many more of these now updated P7 based LED Lightsets once the good word of mouth advertising and good press release communications news gets out about how good the level quality of currently updated P7 based LED bicycling lighting system design has gotten.

During the one hour and fifteen minute nighttime bicycle ride, the Magicshine Lightset was set on its highest intensity setting the whole time and the Lithium Ion external battery pack did a fabulous job at maintaining this high level of light intensity without missing a beat.

Even after seventy five minutes of high light intensity being delivered to the P7 based LED Lighthead, the level of light intensity remained high during the whole time without any signs of fading or diminishment in light intensity.

I plugged in the Lithium Ion external battery pack into its Lithium Ion based recharging AC adapter and it recharged the battery pack in about an hour without any muss or fuss about it; with the LED on the recharging AC adapter turning green after it finished showing it was finally done recharging the Lithium Ion battery pack.

The whole Magicshine MJ-808 LED Lightset Kit is a well put together and thought out bicycle lighting system upgraded and enhanced with the newer P7 based LED Lighting technology which is now starting to be widely available and starting to enter the bicycling lighting system market.

Everything about the Magicshine P7 based LED Lightset offering; from the LED lighthead mounting system; to the LED lighthead beam quality and the LED lighthead casings modern and updated sleek black anodized looks; to the advanced Lithium Ion based external battery pack subsystem design and its battery run time life is fantastic.

These are all potentially desirable invaluable bicycle lighting system characteristics and traits in purchasing a potential bicycle lighting system.

When I was contemplating purchasing this particular Magicshine bicycle lighting system I was initially concerned with all of the above discussed referenced items in this review. I can safely say after having experienced firsthand; the Magicshine P7 based LED Lighting Kit System will immensely add a much appreciated measured level of added bicycling safety and enjoyment to your next nighttime serendipitous bicycle riding road/mountain experience; at a fair value price that cannot be beat, to boot.

To the guys at Geoman/Magicshine; many Kudos/thanks for bringing this updated P7 based LED bicycle lighting system product successfully to cyclists worldwide via the internet; finally cyclists on a global wide basis have an alternative choice when it comes to selecting both a decent and very powerful P7 based LED Lighting System for their nighttime bicycle lighting system needs.

Thanks guys for reading. cheers[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT]


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## circusubet (Aug 5, 2006)

*You Confused Me*

GT you first say,

I don't have time to f-around with hobby-lights.

And then say,

Cool, thanks for the suggestion. I went with a TridenX Li-ion and a Mitycross 350 Li-ion. I still have the Ni-MH and might mod it with those new fancy Cree XP-G's that just came out, just for fun.

Help me understand....

Thx.
John


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

circusubet said:


> GT you first say,
> 
> I don't have time to f-around with hobby-lights.
> 
> ...


If I have a backup system (the new stuff), then I could either throw some new LEDs in there and if it doesn't work, I still have equipment to use OR if I could find someone to do it for me, I wouldn't have to mess around with it.

Actually, I have the new stuff now. Already ran it and it's great. I need to write something up but haven't yet.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

daniel58 said:


> To the guys at Geoman/Magicshine; many Kudos/thanks for bringing this updated P7 based LED bicycle lighting system product successfully to cyclists worldwide via the internet; finally cyclists on a global wide basis have an alternative choice when it comes to selecting both a decent and very powerful P7 based LED Lighting System for their nighttime bicycle lighting system needs.


Great great review! Thanks very much for all the time and effort you put into this.

Geo


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*Post Purchase Magicshine Product Information Part I*



GEOMAN said:


> Great great review! Thanks very much for all the time and effort you put into this.
> 
> Geo


Yes, there is a lot of "buzz" and good discussion going on about this particular controversial P7 based LED Lightset Engine.

Some of it quite controversial on candlepowerforums and other forums as well, some of it accurate, misrepresentative and some of it inaccurate.

Figured, I would post some information that I have collected over a period of time; after taking the time to pre-digest some of the information trying to figure out what does all this information mean to a potential bicycling lighting system consumer.

Hopefully, there will now be a whole lot less controversy, chaos and confusion to prospective customers; with the case and analysis study presented here for consideration and review for the benefit of forum community members.

There have been heated debates regarding P7 versus P4 LED lightset designs in regards to the actual light output in lumens; which I have also tried to address and explain in quite some detail.

Unfortunately, it is not altogether that clear cut or simple as one would think and a little bit more information and analysis is needed.

So I have done the best that I can with the information that I currently have on hand and try to present it in such a way as to benefit once again the forum community at large to hopefully answer some of the more common frequently asked primary and secondary questions about this controversial P7 based LED Lightset Engine and hopefully others on this forum and others will share their experiences both positive and negative of course so that we can all learn from them.

Yes, indeed its so true some people are in shock and awe that a such new controversial entrant into the marketplace can offer the lumen intensity of a Lupine Tesla class bicycle lighting system with reasonable quality at such a reasonable valued price.

Felt it was necessary to identify what this P7 based LED Lightset Engine represents to the potential bicycle "LED" lighting system consumer as an incredible "entry level" opportunity to join the ranks of those with very bright LED Lighting systems at a very competitive pricing right for first time LED Lightset bicycle lighting system consumers or those seeking an upgrade to their present LED Lightset Lighting system; that was the category, which I was in.

Perhaps its not the same level of quality as that of Lupine Tesla or Wilma or Betty class bicycle lighting system but then neither is the price ridiculously out of reach for most "Joe Six Pack" bicycle riding commuters/recreational cyclists; I will grant you that.

What it does represent however, is a major and exciting breakthrough in "lumens for dollars" for most "Joe Six Pack" bicycle lighting system consumers who just want a very bright (around 600-700 lumens) "no frills" bicycle lighting system?

I myself personally, use it everywhere and anywhere any kind of illumination task is needed.

Literally overnight, it has handily rendered obsolete and replaced all my non-led flashlights as well as also rendering my personal collection of led flashlights in general to the status of secondary backup lighting sources (which is still needed on occasion).

Now this is primarily due to the fact that the P7 LED Lightset engine is so versatile in nature, powerfully bright, utilitarian and fully scalable to any illumination job or task one might have at hand.

I use the head/helmet mount attachment all the time on mine and that allows handsfree operation literally.

Getting underneath the kitchen/bathroom sink, under the bathroom toilet, in the workshop as a workshop light, outside for mowing the lawn because the sun sets early, cycling of course, nighttime hiking without the fear of getting lost, going up to the attic to search for something, going to the basement to check on furnace/plumbing, checking underneath ones car or working on ones car after dark, etc. All of these tasks and many more now; are no problem or worry whatsoever anymore.

And guess what it has so far not let me down as of yet; go figure.

Now to be sure I had my doubts like others on these and other forum boards, but the more research I did; the more I became comfortable with the idea of using the new P7 based LED Lightset engine as a powerful lighting tool to illuminate whatever one might be doing on the spur of the moment.

Simply put, as a powerful LED lighting tool and for the price(this tool is no joke); one can derive a "whole lot of utility" from this indispensable tool; even though despite the fact it is not a Lupine Tesla/Wilma/Betty class "state of the art" (SOA) LED Lightset engine.

The Lithium Ion external battery pack is absolutely superb in both battery reserve capacity, lightset total runtime and profile size footprint.

It recharges quickly, simply and reliably just as one would expect a powerful cordless drill battery without drama or theatrics.

The replacement Lithium Ion batteries are easily and universally available on the internet for no more than $40 apiece if one should need or desire a backup battery for the "piece of mind", have an extra battery on hand for "no matter what", or just doubling up on battery reserve capacity, its all affordable enough.

Now to be sure, I cannot afford to spend a small personal fortune for a set of very good (SOA) LED Lightset engines so this definitely fit both the bill and criteria I was looking for.

So this is a very good compromise and "substitute goods" for me and the "Joe Six Pack" P7 LED Lightset buying consumer as well.

To solve the problem of carrying the external Lithium Ion battery pack I wear an old recycled cycling jersey with the three pockets in the back; just in case one was wondering.

Now, prior to buying the Magicshine P7 based LED Lightset Kit, I was over on amazon.com looking at the CygoLite TridenX 600 Series of bicycle lighting systems, which are some of the brightest/lightest LED systems that Cygolite has in its LED bicycle lighting systems product lineup.

It basically has a 600lumens LED light output from three different led emitters that can be toggled from high, med, low and ultra low along with accompanying flashing/sos modes.

It also had options for helmet/handlebar mounting its LED lighthead wherever desired or needed.

Now on the high 600lumen mode with its high capacity Lithium Ion battery pack it says it can last about five hours.

Now its a great brand name bicycle lighting system, the price however was decidedly on the steepish side though at $335.

http://www.amazon.com/TridenX-600-LE...5651870&sr=8-3

So while I was waiting to save up the $335 buckerooskies necessary to buy this outstanding Led Lightset, I was doing further homework and research on the internet investigating various other bicycle P7 LED Lightset engine based systems and I basically came across the brand name Magicshine MJ-808 P7 LED Lightset kit offering on Geomangear and then did some further research on what that LED Lightset product offering had to offer.

Coincidentally the Magicshine LED Lightset Kit product offering has pretty similar LED Lightset output as the Cygolite TridenX 600 by using only just one SSC-P7 four die high intensity P7 emitter source. See my prior indepth comprehensive and descriptive Magicshine posting/review for further details supporting that claim and any other questions one may have.

All I had to do was find a 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery to double up its Lithium Ion battery reserve capacity from 4.4aH to the desired target 8.8aH which would bring the run times up to six hours as the Magicshine product offering lasts three hours on the 4.4aH Lithium Ion battery pack (which is in the link supplied below).

http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion186...connector.aspx

I then placed my order with both geomangear and allbattery for the Magicshine and the extra 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery option with allbattery (see part II next posting down for the secondary reason for getting the 8.8ah Lithium Ion battery pack).

Now $85 for the Magicshine P7 Lightset Kit offering is a more than fair price for such a bright up to date P7 based LED bicycle lighting system, espcially after looking at the P7 LED beamshot patterns on the internet http://fonarevka.lux-rc.com/.

I figured the Lithium Ion battery was about $40 and the Lithium Ion AC adapter was around $20; how could I lose with an outfit like Geomangear which warranties the Magicshine for ninety days for the remaining; around $25.

Now over the next ninety days to be sure, I will test and trial the Magicshine P7 Lightset offering extensively putting it through its paces, but I can already see literally with my own eyes that this product (is no joke).

While it is true I did have to procure an additional Lithium Ion battery to be sure, to get the battery capacity upgraded up to six hours total running time with the 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery from allbattery, it is also conversely true that I have upgraded my total overall running time with the 8.8aH battery used in combination with the 4.4aH Lithium Ion battery from the Magicshine Kit, so that I now have a combined nine hours of total overall running time; and that to me is a double win situation (product value added upgrade/enhancement)

Total cost $85 for the P7 Lightset Kit plus $72 for the extra 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery.
Total overall cost for the upgraded and enhanced P7 Led Lightset Kit combination $157; now here is the interesting twist one could take the difference between the $335 Cygolite TridenX LED Lightset Kit which is $335-$157=$178 and apply the realized savings directly towards a second Magicshine P7 Lightset Kit and another second 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery; which would be another $157.

If one were to do that now, one would have a combined total lumens output of at least 1,200 lumens combined output which would needless to say would light up the roadway for even the fastest downhill stretch of roadway with utter rock solid confidence as close to daytime running conditions as one could possibly hope for or imagine (and a heck of a dual P7 LED Lightset upgrade) for any future needed/desired potential LED Lightset system upgrade; which basically would render it non-obsolete, at least in comparison to my now obsolete Princeton Tec Switch Back I.

You may have other insightful commentary, feedback, observations, thoughts, ideas to share with the other forum members so please do not hesitate with your reply responses whether they be positive or negative feedback it is all good.


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*Post Purchase Magicshine Product Information Part II*



GEOMAN said:


> Great great review! Thanks very much for all the time and effort you put into this.
> 
> Geo


This is all new for me trying to figure all of this out, learning new things about Led technology products along the way and of course what all this new product information means; not only for myself but for the forum reading community at large as well.

For those of you wondering outloud to themselves in my previous post where the 666lumen figure came from; perhaps a clarification/review is in order so here it goes; with a quick draw of the breath:

That 666lumen figure is calculated value from source information provided link info below:

Manufacturer's link:

http://www.headlamp.cn/productsShow.asp?id=321

Magicshine Dealer link:

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?...38paikjv9i1732

They of course can be contacted for independent verification of written specification data stated.

Known variables:

7.4VDC from lithium ion battery pack

4.4aH Battery Capacity

3 hours run time on high intensity setting (userdata also supports/verifies this statistic)

low brightness illumination setting is 30percent of total illumination (200 lumens)

medium brightness illumination setting is five hundred lumens

Power = Voltage times Current
Power = 7.4VDC times 4400aH
Power = 32.56W of power supplied by battery pack (high)

Power = Total Power divided by Time
Power = 32.56W divided by 3 hours run time
Power = 10.85W of power consumed per hour (high)

Total Current = Power divided by Voltage
Total Current = 10.85W divided by 7.4VDC
Total Current = 1466maH current consumed per hour (high)

Current Low = Current times 30 percent illumination
Current Low = 1466maH times 0.30
Current Low = 440maH current consumed per hour at 200lumens

Current per Lumen = Current divided by Lumens
Current per Lumen = 440maH divided by 200lumens
Current per Lumen = 2.2mA current consumed per Lumen generated

Lumens High = Current High divided by (2.2mA per Lumen)
Lumens High = 1466maH times (lumens divided by 2.2mA)
Lumens High = 1466maH divided by 2.2ma
Lumens High = 666lumens (userdata also supports/verifies this statistic)

This 666lumen figure is definitely in the anticipated 600-700lumens arena expected ball park figure as reported indpendently by others.

The calculated value above is just another independent way of verifying the supposed 600-700lumens ball park figure probably being seen by others.

This 666lumen figure also seems to figure into the fact it is a SSC-P7 Seoul Semiconductor type "C" binning 4 die LED emitter source; which with a conservatively based designed Led driver would be hard pressed to get up to the magical superstratospheric 900lumens laboratory conditions idealistic value.

This 666lumen figure of course does not factor in "likely" lumen lighthead losses (perhaps 10% or so) or "likely" lumen light transmission losses due to the beam being spread out half flood/half spotlight configuration (perhaps another 10% or so).

So actual effective in the real world lumens (non-lab conditions) could be as low as:

666lumens-(66lumens)-(66lumens)=534lumens on high setting probably and,

500lumens-(50lumens)-(50lumens)=400lumens on medium setting probably and,

200lumens-(20lumens)-(20lumens)=160lumens on low setting probably; but

a second Magicshine Lighthead however (kind of like a LED twin head configuration i.e. cateye twinshot):

would bring those lumen values back up to 534lumens x 2=1068lumens on high setting probably and,

would bring those lumen values back up to 400lumens x 2=800lumens on medium setting probably and,

would bring those lumen values back up to 160lumens x 2=320lumens on low setting probably.

Fortunately a second Magicshine is still $85; a mercifully affordable option (as opposed to going the Lupine Tesla, Wilma, Betty class of options);

even though there is the added expense of the second set of Lithium Ion batteries if one (for some reason) needed over three hours maxium run times.

On the related topic of Lithium Ion batteries used in powering up the lightset, in general it is important to note that while there is no concern of memory issues when applying unscheduled charges; the lithium ion battery does prefer a partial rather than a full discharge and frequent full discharges should be avoided when possible in order to maximize and prolong lithium ion total cycles battery life.

Another interesting related fact regarding Lithium Ion batteries, one not widely publisized unique drawback of the Li-ion battery is that its life span is dependent upon aging from time of manufacturing (shelf life) regardless of whether it was charged, and not just on the number of charge/discharge cycles.

At a 100% charge level, a typical Li-ion laptop battery that's nearly fully charged most of the time at 25 degrees Celsius(77 degrees F), will irreversibly lose approximately 20% permanent total capacity per year. This capacity loss begins from the time it was manufactured, and occurs even when the battery is unused.

This phenomenon is called "aging of lithium-ion" rechargeable cells and is an issue that is often ignored entirely. Apparently, the lithium ion cell capacity loss manifests itself in increased lithium ion cell internal resistance caused via internal oxidation "rusting" of the lithium ion rechargeable cell and is unfortunately unavoidable.

Eventually, this lithium ion rechargeable cell resistance reaches a point where the lithium ion pack can no longer deliver the stored energy although the battery may still have ample charge held internally(green light is lit; says ok). Unfortunately, there are no remedies to restore a lithium-ion rechargeable cell once it is worn out.

A momentary improvement in performance can be noticeable when heating up the battery as this lowers the effective lithium ion cells internal resistance momentarily but the condition reverts back to its former state when the temperature drops back down again.

Another interesting fact regarding Lithium Ion batteries, if the battery is used and overly depleted, this is called in battery terminalogy a "deep discharge" cycle, and this decreases its permanent capacity. Approximately 100 deep discharge cycles leave the battery with about 75% to 85% permanent total capacity. So bottom line its best to not discharge more than a "safe bet" 60 percent DoD (depth of discharge) of total charge capacity (no more than 4400maH x 0.60 = 2640maH of current before recharging).

What can one do about the "lithium ion battery aging" related effect (nothing its unavoidable)?

Countermeasuring it is about the only thing one can do actively to offset this unavoidable "aging" effect, for example; if one uses a 4.4aH Lithium Ion rechargeable battery for example and wishes to extend its life for an extra three years; all one would have to do is get a 8.8aH Lithium Ion rechargeable battery.

This is probably the simplist, most popular and most cost effective way to actively offset and "countermeasure" against the unavoidable/undesirable "aging effects" lithium ion problematic scenario.

The major tangible advantage here is, during its now enhanced and additional longer three year life it would now still be able to enjoy even longer than anticipated lithium ion battery run times on initial battery installation and also maintain ones normally expected nominal lithium ion battery running times of at least three hours on high intensity (MJ-808 high setting) even after three years.

To better help to illustrate and explain this point see below via two broken down example(s) one with a 4.4ah Lithium Ion battery pack and another 8.8aH Lithium Ion battery pack using a timeline illustration:

8.8aH Lithium Ion battery pack (MJ-808 high setting) run times

8.8aH brand new Lithium Ion battery pack installed / 1.466ah= 6.0 hours
8.8aH / 1.20= 7.3aH(after one years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466aH= 5.0 hours
7.3aH / 1.20= 6.1aH(after two years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466aH= 4.2 hours
6.1aH / 1.20= 5.1aH(after three years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 3.5 hours
5.1aH / 1.20= 4.2aH(after four years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 2.9 hours
4.2aH / 1.20= 3.5aH(after five years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 2.4 hours
3.5aH / 1.20= 2.9ah(after six years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) / 1.466ah= 2.0 hours

4.4aH Lithium Ion battery pack (MJ-808 high setting) run times

4.4aH brand new Lithium Ion battery pack installed / 1.466ah= 3.0 hours
4.4aH / 1.20= 3.6aH(after one years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 2.5 hours
3.6aH / 1.20= 3.1aH(after two years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 2.1 hours
3.1aH / 1.20= 2.5aH(after three years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.7 hours
2.5aH / 1.20= 2.1aH(after four years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.4 hours
2.1aH / 1.20= 1.8aH(after five years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.2 hours
1.8aH / 1.20= 1.5aH(after six years use due to "aging" related effects) permanent lithium ion battery capacity) /1.466aH= 1.0 hours

As one can readily see from the above timeline illustrations/scenarios the effects of lithium ion "aging" effects on total lightset runtimes.

Notice in particular the 8.8aH lithium ion battery pack after three years still has the originally intended three hours run time on the high setting.

Notice in particular the 4.4aH lithium ion battery pack after three years only has 1.7 hours run time on high setting; a drop of 44 per cent in run times.

Simply put, one gets a doublefold benefit of utilizing the 8.8aH battery of getting the "doubling of the run times" on the high setting all throughout its useable life which has effectively been "doubled" as well; versus the 4.4aH battery which is major "piece of mind" for some individuals, especially those who place a high premium on their personal safety(those with life insurance policies, probably).

The two major "take away points" here is, get a slightly plus sized capacity rated Lithium Ion battery for your particular battery running times application (its a energy storage device tool size it accordingly) and use but don't abuse your lithium ion battery so that it can take care of your battery run applications in an optimal manner and also be sure to factor in and get a "realistic perspective general idea" of ones anticipated lightset engines effective lumens (non-lab conditions) being output.

After all, two of the most important parameters for consideration with any potential lightset engine kit/system purchased under consideration are its "effective real world lumen output" and its rechargeable lithium ion battery "effective real world energy output over time"; as this is a consumer based logical analytical process that I had to come to terms with and realize in order to render a logical optimal buying choice/decision.

For any further questions, please feel free to review and see my prior indepth comprehensive and descriptive Magicshine posting/review for further details supporting that claim and any other questions one may have.

cheers with a beer and a wink have a good weekend


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## Petrol (Aug 7, 2007)

daniel58 said:


> Cool feedback; nice to hear Magicshine Led Lightset handily beats the Dinotte 200Lumen LED Lightset engine.
> 
> Magicshine High Intensity LED Lightset based on the newly updated SSC-P7 Seoul Semiconductor quad core chip LED which typically produces 700lm when current is driven thru the LED chip at 2800mA with a forward voltage of 3.6V and able to produce 90 lumens per watt of energy consumed.
> 
> ...


blah blah blah... total system weight of your 'betty killer' is??? blah blah blah...


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Hmmm, weight? Are these figures correct:

Betty 7: 485gm
Betty 12: 810gm
2 Magicshines: 650gm
3 Magischines: 975gm

Bigger battery packs for the magicshines: ?


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## chrissa (Dec 17, 2006)

The two MagicShines I have weigh 317g and 328g total each. That's one light head and o-ring plus one battery/battery holder each. Batteries/holders were 209g and 214g each. These are the lights from DX with the shorter cables.


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## daniel58 (Sep 27, 2008)

*New Inbound Magicshine Lightset Orders frm Geoman being taken continous ongoing basis*

There has been a change in Geoman MJ-808 Magicshine Lightset Kit stock fulfillment status that I have just noticed this morning over on geoman's site; at least as of October 18 see link supplied below:

http://www.geomangear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_41&products_id=138

Good news for those have been "pining away", about the "interminable" waiting list for their very own P7 based LED Magicshine Lightset Kit(MJ-808); whether its your first or second Magicshine Lightset, its all seemingly looking very bright and good for potential Magicshine Lightset Kit customers who have been anxiously "waiting in the wings" looking on anticipatingly(this P7 based LED lightset is one serious illuminating LED light torch) .

Geoman is now currently taking inbound orders on a ongoing continuous basis from potential P7 Magicsine LED Lightset cutomers and currently matching them to inbound pre-scheduled weekly shipments; filling all orders by the actual order date and time with the oldest queued "aged" orders shipping out first .

Looks like all current Geoman P7 Magicshine lightset orders are being fulfilled within about an estimated fourteen day time frame window(give or take a couple of days); to be released for shipping:thumbsup: .

Geoman is currently reporting on its website, that they currently have sufficient "matching" inbound P7 Magicshine Lightset inventory to fulfill all present orders as of October 18 .

Please remember as soon as you get your very own P7 Magicshine Lightset(MJ-808), do not hesitate to post and share your subjective/factual positive or negative experiences, reviews, commentary, observations(obvious/not so obvious), thoughts and/or ideas on this rather new and controversial P7 Magicshine Lightset for the benefit of forum member community at large and so that we can all learn from them; remember it is all "good".

cheers with a "toast"


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