# 2010 DT XCR World Champion Edition Forks



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

I just got my 2010 DT XCR Worldchampion Edition fork. I sold my previous DT XCR LTD and was looking for replacement. In the meantime i used a SID WC in my Winterbike and while the SID is a great performing fork it just feels heavy in direct comparison. If you have been accustomed to a light front-end you have a hard time going back to that heavy feel

Anyway - even though i didn't like a couple of things on the LTD last year i still went with the new DT. The weight is still unchanged: 1258g for the uncut fork Including (!) remote lockout.

Last years LTD fork was 1g heavier...and when cut to lenght it weighed just 1228g. This time however i will go for the tuned remote.I will remove that remote lockout device completely and install a custom manual lockout.This should save about 50g so my fork should be somewhere around 1180g:thumbsup: 

The World Champion Edition also won a comparison shootout in german Bike magazine when tested against other high-end XC forks so i think they got he setup right this time.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

According to DT Swiss' website, the World Cup is the same as last year's XRC LTD, so you now have the same fork as last year, but with World Cup stripes. The XRC 100 and XRC 100 Race are the new forks with new spring and damper.

The new XRC 100 Race weigh under 1200g, supposedly.

http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Suspension/DT-Swiss-Forks/XRC-Forks.aspx

Ole.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Ole said:


> According to DT Swiss' website, the World Cup is the same as last year's XRC LTD, so you now have the same fork as last year, but with World Cup stripes. The XRC 100 and XRC 100 Race are the new forks with new spring and damper.
> 
> The new XRC 100 Race weigh under 1200g, supposedly.
> 
> ...


I know that but according to DT reps the announced new model will hit the showrooms not before september !! Too long to wait. And i sure think they got the setup better than before otherwise it couldn't win a german comparison shootout...


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I've seen stranger things in the Bike tests. They are very accurate in their testing, but sometimes test for irrelevant data.

Ole.


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

The lockout tunning is that what you showed before from R2Bikes?
That will be sweet... Post it when it's ready...
Which ones will this go on, the one with the R1's


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> The lockout tunning is that what you showed before from R2Bikes?
> That will be sweet... Post it when it's ready...
> Which ones will this go on, the one with the R1's


Both my Scales have the R1 now...

The new fork will go on here instead of the LTD fork that is still shown:
http://luckynino.blogspot.com/2009/12/my-scale-ltd-with-everyday-disc-setup.html
With the tuned fork (-50g), a lighter MCFK-seatpost (-50g) and lighter wheels (still the same build but using lighter, selected Alex scandium rims - 40g) i should just hit the 7 Kilo barrier.

And my second "Winter-Scale" now also with R1s but te heavy SID WC:
http://luckynino.blogspot.com/2009/03/nino-winterbike-78-kilo.html


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

How does this DT fork perform compared to the SID 100 series?
Actual weight differences?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

oldassracer said:


> How does this DT fork perform compared to the SID 100 series?
> Actual weight differences?


I haven't ridden the Worldchampion Edition yet. It would be unfair to compare the SID to the former XRC LTD since that wasn't offering the performance i was expecting. It was a great fork for singletrails and XC-use but as soon as you would go a bit faster i found it was on it's limits. Since there is no dials to adjust damping all you can do is change air-pressure which was of no help.It had too little progression towards the end of the stroke.

I love the SIDs bump absorbtion capabilities. It's dials allow you to tune it exactly to your needs. BUT as mentioned the weight penalty can be felt. And in direct comparison it is now really annoying since the steering feels really "heavy" with the added weight on the front. I was really tempted to get the new SID WC with carbon steerer but all the remote things still add up...i personally don't need a lockout on my forks. I like the forks set up on the stiffer side of the spectrum especially over the small stuff. I think for small stuff we have the low inflated tires that do a better job in absorbing smallest irregularities...for me a fork needs to start working a bit later so by setting it up slightly stiffer i have almost no bob anyway. So no need for a lockout. But i still have a manual lockout in case i have to do a long section on paved roads but for offroad use i never needed a lockout.

My SID WC has manual lockout and cut to the same lenght than the DT it weighs 1436g--->that's over 200g more. Add a manual lockout and we would easily look at a 270g disadvantage. Compared to the DT with the manual lockout it will have the disadvantage gets even bigger by 40--50g.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

nino, I don't get it. Last Semptember you were bashing the current DT Swiss fork line up big time in the German forum. Now a 180° turn? What's behind it?

Personally, I really liked my xrc. Unfortunately, I crashed it. Not the most robust fork out there.

Main criticism against that bike mag test: only a time-snapshot test, however, in particular with forks a longer test period is necessary.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Does anybody know if they are planning a 29er version of either of these new forks?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

quax said:


> nino, I don't get it. Last Semptember you were bashing the current DT Swiss fork line up big time in the German forum. Now a 180° turn? What's behind it?
> 
> Personally, I really liked my xrc. Unfortunately, I crashed it. Not the most robust fork out there.
> 
> Main criticism against that bike mag test: only a time-snapshot test, however, in particular with forks a longer test period is necessary.


No-as mentioned above there's several issues i had with the precedessor.After all that was also the reason i sold my LTD fork....

BUT by riding my other bike with the SID during the winter-season i just realized that i liked the light feel of the front that the DT offered on my other bike. The new fork should have a different base setup and by eliminating the remote lockout most of my complaints should be gone as well. We will see.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

nothing wrong with changing/building an opinion


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## bikemaniack (Feb 6, 2010)

Nino,do you still use the Sram Plasma shifters,or your's 10sp.shifters,beacuse you can have much lighter shifters like sram quarz. With them your bike lose 35grams.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

bikemaniack said:


> Nino,do you still use the Sram Plasma shifters,or your's 10sp.shifters,beacuse you can have much lighter shifters like sram quarz. With them your bike lose 35grams.


Just in case you didn't follow the last couple of weeks below are my shifters:
9s on my Winterbike and 10s on my "Summer-Bike"...much lighter than Quartz:thumbsup: 
I don't think there's much to be gained over these...but you are right-i forgot to mention them above with the upgrades to the shown listing.


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## bikemaniack (Feb 6, 2010)

aaaaa,sorry,my foul.

Nino,I send some message on your e-mail.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Nice fork !

Does it have "bulges" like the RockShox ? Or is that optical illusion ?


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Ole said:


> I've seen stranger things in the Bike tests. They are very accurate in their testing, but sometimes test for irrelevant data.
> 
> Ole.


Standard Gernan bike testing is, If it's German, Austrian or Swiss it wins.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

So why didn't Magura win?


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## CactusJackSlade (Apr 11, 2006)

Cool!

Nice looking fork I have to say.

So they got that fork down to what my Lefty weighs, only I have stiffer 140mmm of travel "fork" :thumbsup: 

Left is right.... for me anyway


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

Rivet said:


> Standard Gernan bike testing is, If it's German, Austrian or Swiss it wins.


Yearh, its gotten pretty obvious : /


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Rivet said:


> Standard Gernan bike testing is, If it's German, Austrian or Swiss it wins.


Now you're being unfair, you make it sound like Germans have a history of trying for world domination.

Ole.


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Most people think that fork sucks. The only reason Nino likes it is because he spends much more time weighing his bike than riding it.

BTW, is he using a secondary account (bikemaniack) to spam the forum again?
I thought this thread was about the DT XCR WC fork, not the cheap looking twist shifters he's trying to sell.


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## Quiksilver (Aug 1, 2006)

sfer1 said:


> Most people think that fork sucks. The only reason Nino likes it is because he spends much more time weighing his bike than riding it.
> 
> BTW, is he using a secondary account (bikemaniack) to spam the forum again?
> I thought this thread was about the DT XCR WC fork, not the cheap looking twist shifters he's trying to sell.


How's trolling going for you? 
Someone asked what shifters he was using, stfu.


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Quiksilver said:


> How's trolling going for you?
> Someone asked what shifters he was using, stfu.


Yeah, he probably asked himself, using a secondary account. He's also trying to get people interested in buying those cheap looking shifters on another thread.


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## alcaria (May 11, 2007)

sfer1 said:


> Yeah, he probably asked himself, using a secondary account. He's also trying to get people interested in buying those cheap looking shifters on another thread.


There are other places, if that is a problem:

http://www.actionsports.de/Schalthe...hebel-2-3x10fach::27070.html?refID=newsletter


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

That fork is the exact same fork as the 2009 fork.... just different decals. They haven't changed anything. It is beyond belief that Nino claims that just because a Mag reviewed the fork favorably that "it must be better" before ever riding it or even putting it on his bike. 

He himself says the 2009 model didn't perform well when he used it. This one won't be any different.


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## timbuktu (Nov 9, 2008)

sfer1 said:


> Most people think that fork sucks. The only reason Nino likes it is because he spends much more time weighing his bike than riding it.
> 
> BTW, is he using a secondary account (bikemaniack) to spam the forum again?
> I thought this thread was about the DT XCR WC fork, not the cheap looking twist shifters he's trying to sell.


Those who think that the XRC sucks, think that, probably because they can't afford it. "Have's and Have nots."

I happen to have the XRC 100's on a Spark that didn't loose a race last year. "The proof is in the pudding." This year, based on the fact that Nino truly knows his stuff, I've just purchased (from Nino) the new "World Champs." Will I be one myself? Fat chance. But I'll have a second Spark that will be sub 20 lbs. If you care to see how my new bike "moves", bring your own to the pacific nw and we can both have a little drag race up Cultus mt (4000' climb) in my back yard, and back down. I'm game, are you? In the mean time, don't point the finger unless you're perfect, and if you're perfect there won't be any need to point the finger.https://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/nono.gif

PS
"Most people think the forks suck". Do you think thats what the XC World Champ believes, and his competition?https://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

Competition is for the competent!https://forums.mtbr.com/images/smilies/wink5.gif


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I have owned the fork, and used it for a year. It sucked then, and still sucks now, compared to what Fox and RS makes. As for the new models with improved spring and damper, they might be pretty good.


Ole


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## Pinokio (Oct 23, 2009)

timbuktu said:


> I happen to have the XRC 100's on a Spark that didn't loose a race last year. "The proof is in the pudding."


OK, 
May I see a list of your races last year?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

briscoelab said:


> That fork is the exact same fork as the 2009 fork.... just different decals. They haven't changed anything. It is beyond belief that Nino claims that just because a Mag reviewed the fork favorably that "it must be better" before ever riding it or even putting it on his bike.
> 
> He himself says the 2009 model didn't perform well when he used it. This one won't be any different.


As mentioned several times already i think the Worldchampion edition got a different base setup than the LTD had. The LTD also got only soso rewievs in that same mag last year. I do think they learned from the critics. But you are still right, i haven't mounted it yet so i can't tell for sure. I still wait for that lockout device and want to weigh the fork prior of installing it.

And as mentioned above already - the SID WC i have in my other bike for me sets the standard in bump absorption BUT it is just too heavy. If the actual DT has a decent setup i'll be more than happy.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

The only thing the could do to improve it without making a new damper or spring, is to replace the too-soft negative spring with one that is a bit stiffer, then the first half of the travel wouldn't be used up so easily. I put a compression shim stack in mine, and that also helped some.


Ole.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Ole said:


> The only thing the could do to improve it without making a new damper or spring, is to replace the too-soft negative spring with one that is a bit stiffer, then the first half of the travel wouldn't be used up so easily. I put a compression shim stack in mine, and that also helped some.
> 
> Ole.


I on the other hand think that the LTD had just too little progression towards the end of the stroke. As you say it blowed throught the travel too easily. I would have liked to put more oil (higher oil level) to raise the progression but DT seems to try everything to prevent people from doing any home adjustments to the internals.No manuals and topcaps for special tools...anyway - i didn't want to invest any time to try a better setup last time.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

One thing that DT could do to improve the fork, without spending a lot of money on new internals, is simply putting in a stiffer negative spring. The standard spring doesn't work so well with the air spring, it uses up the first half of the travel too easily.


Ole.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Then it would need a lighter neg spring. Rs has it dialed with an 
adj air neg spring


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Some of the new DT-forks have auto adjust negative air spring, so that should work pretty well. A softer negative spring gives a lower spring rate for the part of the travel the negative spring is active. So you'll get a softer fork as long as you don't pressurize the fork to the point of topping out the neg spring.


Ole.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Ole said:


> Some of the new DT-forks have auto adjust negative air spring, so that should work pretty well. A softer negative spring gives a lower spring rate for the part of the travel the negative spring is active. So you'll get a softer fork as long as you don't pressurize the fork to the point of topping out the neg spring.
> 
> Ole.


a neg spring is used to overcome the pos spring stiction.
A higher neg spring rate makes the fork mushy initially.
Go ride a sid and make the neg spring higher pressure then
the pos spring and you will see it blows thru it's initial travel.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

A neg spring is not to overcome sticion, but to cancel out the massive preload from a single pressurized air chamber.

You're getting things around the wrong way about the negative pressure on the SID. The first parameter you want to get correct is sag. Lets say you want to have 20% sag. If you add more negative pressure, you also have to add more positive pressure to get the same sag as before, and you end up with a stiffer overall spring. So, if DT adds a stiffer negative coil spring, you add more positive pressure to get the sag you want, and voilá, you have a stiffer spring rate overall.

Also, the SID's negative spring is also an infininte lenght air spring with the same preloaded spring curve as the main spring, and thus is not the same as a finite lenght coil spring.


Ole.


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## Tricone (Apr 21, 2007)

Ole said:


> A neg spring is not to overcome sticion, but to cancel out the massive preload from a single pressurized air chamber.
> 
> You're getting things around the wrong way about the negative pressure on the SID. The first parameter you want to get correct is sag. Lets say you want to have 20% sag. If you add more negative pressure, you also have to add more positive pressure to get the same sag as before, and you end up with a stiffer overall spring. So, if DT adds a stiffer negative coil spring, you add more positive pressure to get the sag you want, and voilá, you have a stiffer spring rate overall.
> 
> ...


My brain hurts! I'm so glad I ride a rigid fork.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

I just had the special manual lockout in the mail. It should fit right in there instead of the standard remote Lockout with cable and lever...You still have the lockout though.You just need to push/pull on that black top cap.

Here they show how the conversion is done:
http://thebikeblog.de/2009/10/19/dt_swiss_lockout-2/


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

peabody said:


> Then it would need a lighter neg spring. Rs has it dialed with an
> adj air neg spring


I agree. The more negative spring the softer a fork becomes initially. If you ever put too much negative pressure you will notice the fork starts diving into its travel all by itself.

Anyway - i think one of the DTs good traits is that it soaks up even the smallest ripples. It is super sensitive because it has almost too much negative spring.I personaly don't need a fork to be this compliant over the smallest bumbs though. I have fat tires and low tire pressure to do this...As mentioned above, i could live with that suppleness if it would have enough resistance later on in the stroke. But as it was there was just too little damping and too little raise in progression so it would blow through the travel way too easily if you were going at speed. The fork was super supple and great performing on singeltrails but as soon as you started going faster on rougher downhill sections it felt too soft. That's where i would have liked more compression damping. But the negative sping has no effect here so you could as well leave that alone.

On the SID the negative spring can be adjusted which also allows you to dialed exactly the way you want. And to get rid of almost any bob.Great! BUT most guys don't kow how to dial in suspension anyway so DTs approach was to get a fork with a perfect setup....but they just missed the perfect

Again-i sure hope they listened to the critics they got for the precedessor and re-adjusted the base setup.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

nino said:


> I agree. The more negative spring the softer a fork becomes initially. If you ever put too much negative pressure you will notice the fork starts diving into its travel all by itself.
> 
> Anyway - i think one of the DTs good traits is that it soaks up even the smallest ripples. It is super sensitive because it has almost too much negative spring.I personaly don't need a fork to be this compliant over the smallest bumbs though. I have fat tires and low tire pressure to do this...As mentioned above, i could live with that suppleness if it would have enough resistance later on in the stroke. But as it was there was just too little damping and too little raise in progression so it would blow through the travel way too easily if you were going at speed. The fork was super supple and great performing on singeltrails but as soon as you started going faster on rougher downhill sections it felt too soft. That's where i would have liked more compression damping. But the negative sping has no effect here so you could as well leave that alone.
> 
> ...


amazing we both come from mx background and can set susp up! and understand it. you can keep raising neg pressure then increase pos pressure and all you'll get is a fork that hangs down initially and ramps up and doesnt get full travel. neg pressure ONLY effects
overcoming the initial movement of the pos spring, nothing else. pos spring sets up bottoming control. so yeah keep raising both pressures and you will still have alot of initial
movement if you like that kinda thing.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

peabody said:


> amazing we both come from mx background and can set susp up! and understand it. you can keep raising neg pressure then increase pos pressure and all you'll get is a fork that hangs down initially and ramps up and doesnt get full travel. neg pressure ONLY effects
> overcoming the initial movement of the pos spring, nothing else. pos spring sets up bottoming control. so yeah keep raising both pressures and you will still have alot of initial
> movement if you like that kinda thing.


Well- in most peoples defense : it has really become quite complicated with all those dials and air chambers front and rear. You really need to know how each dial works,what exactly it affects. And i think most don't have enough experience to know what it is all about. By just reading the owners manuals you don't get to understand what it is all about. Just setting up the sag alone has a huge impact on how a bike handles let alone all those dials and settings...

BUT when a manufacturer like DT offers such a fork for the high-end market, obviously racer-oriented, it should have had a better setup than what the LTD had! I was in contact with the responsible DT mechanic at Eurobike and was shocked to realize that they didn't have the knowledge i expected.


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## the_terrible_1 (Aug 6, 2006)

All this discussion is great and everything but ultimately I'm only concerned with how a fork performs. I'm not going to notice 200g on the trail in all reality. My choices for my build are now down to the above DT Swiss World Champ edition and the SID World Cup XX but I really want to know, which one performs best on the trail...? Nino, is it possible to supply a pic of the DT Swiss lockout lever on this fork?


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## briscoelab (Oct 27, 2006)

Simple, the SID XX is a better performing fork. 

Another good option, that is also very light, is the Magura Durin SL. I've seen a few of the 100mm ones come in at 1365 grams, uncut. 

But, the XX Sid WC is really nice too.


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## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

A friend from R2bike said the Ltd and WC versions differ only in paint job (same internals) and was confirmed by Friso Lorscheider (DT Swiss Int. Service & Race Support Manager).


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

skyfire1202 said:


> A friend from R2bike said the Ltd and WC versions differ only in paint job (same internals) and was confirmed by Friso Lorscheider (DT Swiss Int. Service & Race Support Manager).


correct- hat's what we discussed here all the time. But that doesn't hinder the manufacturer from having a different base setup. As mentioned before the LTD fork got a soso / "good" review in last years comparison test while the world champion edition got a "Super" and was winner of the latest test from January 2010 by the same magazine (german BIKE magazine).


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## MMeglen (Apr 8, 2009)

Nino, have you ridden the fork yet? A new fork is next in line for my bike and its between this, the xx, and the durin sl.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

MMeglen said:


> Nino, have you ridden the fork yet? A new fork is next in line for my bike and its between this, the xx, and the durin sl.


No-not yet.I still have too sore legs from last weekends Motocross race ( which i won! BTW - there was electronic timekeeping and i had the 3rd fastest time of 170 riders! Just 1,6 seconds shy of the fastest 450 rider in the pro-class:thumbsup: ). So i'm doing easy spins on my roadbike. Over here the trails are still too muddy anyway. It's just 1 week now that the snow is gone so i need to be a bit patient before i can go ride my MTB again.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Ok- i finally installed the fork in my Scale LTD. Still no riding though. I'm still waiting for the new wheelset to be tensioned...i'm still riding my Winterbike with the SID WC. However the weight with the special manual lockout is really cool.Can't wait to ride it...

DT XRC Race World Champion Edition (uncut steerer): 1258g
With special manual Lockout (uncut steerer): 1215g
With steerer cut to 175mm and special lockout: 1192g
DT remote lockout assembly: 50g
Special manual lockout: 7g

Installation of the special lockout takes no more than 1 minute and saves 43g. Super easy!

The fork and wheels and new MCFK seatpost dropped the overall weight of my Scale just below 7 Kilos / 15,4 lbs. That's with fat Conti RK 2,2" tires at over 450g...


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

Why do you keep calling the fork XCR when the name is XRC?


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Awesome... Is the Special lockout bolt ti or aluminum?
Did you do new wheels this year too?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

nikoli8 said:


> Awesome... Is the Special lockout bolt ti or aluminum?
> Did you do new wheels this year too?


@Daniel E:
ups-i corrected that error-thanks!

@nikoli8:
Aluminium

Yes-i just got some new Alex scandium rims and the actual ones come without eyelets and the lightest ones i got are just 295g...so i laced them up yesterday again using some Amclassic hubs. They came out at 1246g for the pair. Now i wait for them to be tensioned for good by a capable weelbuilder in the neighbourhood.He does wheels also for the swiss national squad. I don't like to spend huge chunks in exotic hubs when i see how many warranties come back to the wheelbuilders all the time...My previous wheelset with the same parts has proven to be real solid. Used it all year long and during winter in all kinds of conditions...They were a little heavier because of the eyelets (1270g). But they held up great, didn't need any trueing and still work perfectly smooth. I also laced some DT Ceramic hubs to the same rims and those are 1220g BUT they still need the centerlock adapters so in the end those are 1280g. Hmm - anyway - i still have them around if all fails


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

Nino,
Do you know how to shorten the lockout cable ?
Thanks


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Sonny said:


> Nino,
> Do you know how to shorten the lockout cable ?
> Thanks


Hi-no, i've never looked at it this close. 
I really hate the remote lockout of the DT fork. It doesn't fit Grip-shifters, loosens up without Loctite at the bolt, comes in a fixed lenght and seems complicated to shorten...why? DT also has a VERY complicated way to attach the remote cable at the Scott Sparks rear shock. It's really unbelievable what degreed engineers can come up with:madman:


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Hope u post the bike again... New looks should be great


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

The cable is crimped into the lockout needle in the fork, and the cable "head" sits in the lockout lever. I wish they had used a small set screw to secure the cable at the lever, so you could shorten it easily.


Ole.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm on the lookout for the new XRC forks too but their models this year is a bit confusing. I don'l like the colors of the WC on my XRC (no offense nino) but I like the all carbon crown and steerer so I am looking at their LTD (the term Limited or Ltd doesn't even show anymore on their website) version of the XRC but according to their site it doesn't have the carbon crown and steerer plus the internals of the WC and the Ltd or the XRC 100 are listed as different. The WC has "Air, coil negative Oil, integrated twin tube system" while the XRC 100 (or Ltd) has "Auto balancing spring system (ABS), air Twin shot damping, oil". Which one is newer or better? I didn't even include the 1,170g XRC Race that's on their website since none of the shops I know sell them anyway. Can anyone please enlighten me?:thumbsup: I'm getting my forks from Robert of R2. The info on his site is a bit different too. Thanks guys!


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## timbuktu (Nov 9, 2008)

It almost seems as though there are 4 different XRCs. The "original" which is the one with the aluminum crown (which I have and have been satisfied with), the World Champ Race (which I got from Nino and installed a couple of weeks ago) which has the Carbon Crown, in addition to what the original has, and, is suppose to be stronger (lighter) and with less flex. Then there is the XRC 100 Race and the XRC 100 Race Limited. Other than the fact the Limited is suppose to be 1170/1190 grams, and suppose to come out in Sept (did Nino tell me that?), and appears, according to dt swiss, to have the same inside make up as the original 100's. Whereas the XRC 100 Race may not exist.

Anyway, I like both shocks. Looking forward to giving the WCRace a workout to see if it's "stiffer" than the "original." Come to think of it. maybe the original isn't the original. Maybe the original 100 didn't have magnesium dropouts. Hmm...


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

That just sucks how DT makes all sorts of models with hard to differentiate names. They should have just named it XRC Race, Team, and World Cup! So what's the deal with different internals? The current Race Ltd has ABS while the WC has Air, Coil Negative. Which one is better or newer?


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

nino said:


> DT also has a VERY complicated way to attach the remote cable at the Scott Sparks rear shock. It's really unbelievable what degreed engineers can come up with:madman:


Not so complicated....all u need is 'patient'


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Nino where did you get your manual lockout? Robert of R2 is out of it. Thanks! Hope anyone out there can answer my queries about the difference of the internals, model names, etc.


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

http://www.bikediscount.com/ItemDet...ig3id=4&ig2id=174&iid=6978&mi=0&hasv=0&webi=0

Morris is this the one you had in mind?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Quiksilver said:


> How's trolling going for you?
> Someone asked what shifters he was using, stfu.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

nikoli8 said:


> http://www.bikediscount.com/ItemDet...ig3id=4&ig2id=174&iid=6978&mi=0&hasv=0&webi=0
> 
> Morris is this the one you had in mind?


That is what I would've wanted but they said it won't be available in a couple of more months. This is what I'm looking at R2 Bikes http://www.r2-bike.com/DT-Swiss-xrc-100-xrc-100-race-limited-race-ltd-federgabel. Is this ok/good?


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

I have no clue, I've been waiting to pull the trigger on one myself...


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Finally got my fork. Nice weight. Totally out of the box with uncut steerer. Can't wait to ride it! Still on a search for the manual lockout that nino has though to save some more weight.


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Which model is it? World Cup?


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Nope. XRC Race Ltd.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Here is a link to a German online-shop that sells the manual lockout :

http://www.r2-bike.com/DT-Swiss-xrc-100-xrc-100-race-limited-race-ltd-Lockouthebel-Lock-Out-Hebel


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

That's where I got my fork. They said they're out of manual lockouts and will probably never have them again.


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## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

They said they won't be able to get them anymore.

Hi Morris! Nice weight on the fork, I hope mine would come close. It's still on its way here with some other parts.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> That's where I got my fork. They said they're out of manual lockouts and will probably never have them again.


Maybe this guy can help:
http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=7127015&postcount=58

In the german forum he says he has some of these manual lockouts around.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Hi skyfire! I asked Robert of R2 to send me the lightest fork in his stock. Even asked/kidded him if he removed any oil in my fork to make it light.:skep: Nino, I did get in touch with that guy and he said he only ships to europe.:sad: Anyone else out there?


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## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

Maybe Nino can help us out?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

skyfire1202 said:


> Maybe Nino can help us out?


no problem.But i don't understand those guys anyway-it makes no difference at all to ship overseas or within Europe. I really don't understand why some guys don't ship to some other countries.Anyway - i sure could help you guys out. You'll have twice the shipping cost...that's it.


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## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

No problem. Let us know how much. By the way, are the things I bought from you already on their way here?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

skyfire1202 said:


> No problem. Let us know how much. By the way, are the things I bought from you already on their way here?


If you need help get in touch direct please!


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Hi Nino. Just sent you a pm regarding the manual lockout. Sure hope you can help!


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Finally got my fork mounted and went for a 1.5hr ride today. Initial observations compared to my SID WC was it's smoother and did make my steering lighter. It did also lifted the front end of my bike a tad thought. I'll go for a smaller spacer. But, here's something that's worrying me though. The fork tended to excrete a bit of oil on the stanchions. To the point that it was building up muck there. Is this normal for a brand new fork? I don't remember getting that much oil on my SID. 2nd and more worrying-there are lines/scratches that formed on the stanchions of my fork. About 2 on the left and around 3 on the right. I could feel them when I run my fingernail over them. Now this I never got on my SID. WTF are these??? I don't want to think that this is normal but I want to know if you guys who have this fork have these same experiences. Here are some camphone pics of those lines/scratches:


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Morris can u pop a full bike pick


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

nikoli8 said:


> Morris can u pop a full bike pick


Did you mean "pic"? Anyway, I went for another ride today and really loved how smooth the fork performs. No other lines/scratches appeared. It's really barely noticeable to the casual observer but it is kinda freaking me out that these lines would appear on my first ride.:madman: The oil seeping out seems to be lesser this time. I cleaned my bike and the gunk around the fork and hope and pray that on my next ride it'll be oil and gunk free.









After the wash. Sorry for the camphone quality pic. The bike's a work in progress. Saving up for lightning cranks, scrub rotors, dt swiss xr carbon shock, flat light handlebar, and whatever new ww stuff is out there that I can't afford.


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> The bike's a work in progress. Saving up for lightning cranks, scrub rotors, dt swiss xr carbon shock, flat light handlebar, and whatever new ww stuff is out there that I can't afford.


Don't go for the XR Carbon shock!!! it's performs poor! If you want a lighter bike, just find you a lighter frame  like MSC


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Un real build ,what's your seat collar brand and what's the size...
I did mean pic ... iPhone auto correct...
I'm doing same MRP guide... With lightning cranks... Looks awesome


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

It's a 35mm Token seat clamp. 9g.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

ohadamirov said:


> Don't go for the XR Carbon shock!!! it's performs poor! If you want a lighter bike, just find you a lighter frame  like MSC


Have you had any personal experience with the XR Carbon shock? I really like my Yeti frame and there are mixed reviews when it comes to the XR carbon shock.


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## *XJay* (Aug 24, 2008)

=Retracted=


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## *XJay* (Aug 24, 2008)

@morrisgarages

I noticed your swing arm is not stock. Are they carbon?


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## *XJay* (Aug 24, 2008)

Sonny said:


> Nino,
> Do you know how to shorten the lockout cable ?
> 
> Not so complicated....all u need is 'patient'
> ...


@Sonny,
You seem to have solution to the question you posted.
Care to share /PM me as I just pull the trigger and order one XRC myself.
Only setback is the @#$ remote cable. 

Thanks.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I've been quite pleased with my XR Carbon shock actually.


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

Actually, I am waiting for a crown lock model of this fork.
But i got a information about the lockout cable. They have a special cable to connect twinloc and the dt fork.








' There is a special cable available for the Scott Twinloc lever. You can get it from your local DT Swiss Service Center.
The downside is, that we only provide the cable but don't give any guarantee that the Twin loc lever will work with the DT fork. '
Anyone who need this cable can contact DT Asia - [email protected]

They have the cable there.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I'm having 2nd thoughts about getting the XR Carbon shock after this experience with my fork.:madman: I really like the weight and performance of this fork except the oil buildup and scratches that appeared after the 1st ride.:madmax: I wanted to get the XR Carbon shock and get a twinlock for my fork and shock. I'm really hoping everything turns out well with this fork. I'm still waiting for a response from Robert of R2 Bike on what to do with my fork.
@XJay my frame is all stock. It's a 09 ASR Al with carbon rear triangle.


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> Have you had any personal experience with the XR Carbon shock? I really like my Yeti frame and there are mixed reviews when it comes to the XR carbon shock.


Not peronally, however most of Ibis Mojo SL owners here in Israel are selling they'r DT carbon shox... becouse of this minimalistic adjustments - no stable platform (the feeling you get, is like being on a boat) - no auto blow off. Only pressure, rebound and lockout.


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## quax (Feb 21, 2009)

morrisgarages said:


> I wanted to get the XR Carbon shock and get a twinlock for my fork and shock.


not 100% sure but I think this shock is not compatible with a twinlock. However, maybe I'm wrong but I think came across this info when I was looking for an alternative shock for my Spark


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## Pinokio (Oct 23, 2009)

morrisgarages said:


> I wanted to get the XR Carbon shock and get a twinlock for my fork and shock. I'm really hoping everything turns out well with this fork. I'm still waiting for a response from Robert of R2 Bike on what to do with my fork.


no twinlock support for your shock. just for scott nude (and some dt model, from spark 40 and lower)
i just upgrade my remote locks to twinlock


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> . To the point that it was building up muck there. Is this normal for a brand new fork? I don't remember getting that much oil on my SID. 2nd and more worrying-there are lines/scratches that formed on the stanchions of my fork. About 2 on the left and around 3 on the right. I could feel them when I run my fingernail over them.


Those do not look good at all. I would have serviced the fork at the first sign of any scratches like that and cleaned up seals - not sure how easy it is to do with DT, rather trivial with my current Magura's..


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

morrisgarages said:


> The fork tended to excrete a bit of oil on the stanchions. To the point that it was building up muck there. Is this normal for a brand new fork?


You said this was an XRC Race Ltd, right? That means it's a 2009 fork, well-known for seeping oil. The 2010 version of that fork is "XRC Race World Champ edition".

DT Swiss needs to get their fork naming sorted out. This is just WAY too complicated.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Daniel_E said:


> You said this was an XRC Race Ltd, right? That means it's a 2009 fork, well-known for seeping oil. The 2010 version of that fork is "XRC Race World Champ edition".
> 
> DT Swiss needs to get their fork naming sorted out. This is just WAY too complicated.


Tell me about it! DT models are just too confusing. This is a 2010 XRC Race Ltd. according to Robert of R2. That's what I insisted on getting and that's what he promised I would get. The WC edition has been around since 2009.


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

I was under the impression that they had changed the name of that fork between 2009 and 2010. But the only thing I'm sure of is that I don't fully understand their naming.


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## skyfire1202 (Jan 21, 2008)

Only the decals are different. The new ones are not on the market yet.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I've posted this on another thread but I guess this is more appropriate to be here now. To make a long story short, DT replaced my Race Ltd. (the one that had scratches in the stanchions and a bit of a knocking sound when I cycle it) with a brand new World Cup Edition fork. Of course the scratches are gone but the slight knocking/kink in this World Cup fork is also/still there. DT is insisting that nothing is wrong with my fork but I beg to disagree. I noticed that it's happens when it rebounds. Any thoughts on this guys? On a side note, I've been searching the www for that german Bike article stating that the WC fork is "super" but didn't get anything. Does anyone have an actual copy of that article or could this be just some bogus marketing flick? Aside from this slight knocking/kink in my fork I really love this fork and its weight and would really like to keep it and tune it with the manual lockout from R2 bikes. I think the negative spring inside the fork is also made out of steel so maybe it can still be tuned to one made out of Ti to save more weight. Anyone knows where we can source this? Thanks guys and hope to hear from you.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

My DT EXC-150 knocks on rebound as well. Maybe it's a feature.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Really rocky?? Was it like that already when you got it brand new? Did you tell DT about this? Any other guys have the same experience? I guess I'd feel a bit better if this is normal for my fork. Though DT said nothing's wrong with my fork I still want to know what you guys experience with your DT forks. Because I thought DT was known to be uber smooth when it comes to their forks.:skep:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

It's travel dependent on the 150, bigger hits knock more, but it's always been there. On Fox forks the knock usually means the oil levels are low, but it just seems to be a feature with the DT. If someone was really clever they'd start a business grafting Fox innards into the DT chassis. 

Now that the 2011 Fox 140 and 150mm travel Floats are down to the same weight as the EXC-150, I'll be retiring the EXC-150 and going for a new Fox.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Hmmm...I'm starting to feel better already. I actually just got a call from DT Swiss a few minutes ago and they're telling me to just keep riding the fork and see what happens. I think I will do so and let them know if anything comes up. Thanks rocky!:thumbsup: Now if only someone can point me to the right direction on where to get a ti negative spring for this fork. Please keep your inputs coming guys!


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

*Mine is already here*

With custom made manual lockout :thumbsup: 1231g with uncut steerer  
Special thanks to Robert R2-Bike.de !!!!


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

Looks like R2-Bikes have the XRC 100 Race in stock. Time to cancel my order with CRC since they have a due-in-stock-date of 2011.

Damn expensive though...


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Congrats on the new fork Ohad! Been riding my fork and loving it more and more. I can barely feel the "kink" anymore! Maybe it's just a break-in issue. Placed an order from R2 Bikes too for that manual lock-out. Can't wait to get my hands on it! Now if only someone can point us to the right direction on where to get a Ti negative spring for this lightweight champ to make it a featherweight champ!


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Wait, I thought the new Race model one was supposed to just weigh 1,170g uncut? And doesn't come with a remote lockout so no need for the R2Bikes manual lockout.


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> Wait, I thought the new Race model one was supposed to just weigh 1,170g uncut? And doesn't come with a remote lockout so no need for the R2Bikes manual lockout.


So you want to upgrade it to the Race XRC model ?  Sounds like a great idea :thumbsup: My DT fork is steel in the box, waiting for Extralite them and Carbonice spacer and don't want to cut the steerer, before i measure exact lenght i need! So may be it's time to tell Robert, that i want to upgrade the fork to the lightest one  He is great guy and i think it's not gonna be a big deal.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

light but damn ugly and expensive!


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

sergio_pt said:


> light but damn ugly and expensive!


That's what people say when they want it but can't afford it. 
Ohad, I'm sticking with my World Cup edition for now. I'll let others test the new 1,170g Race fork first before plunging some serious $ into it. Let us know when you get to upgrade yours and don't forget to post pictures!:thumbsup:


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

no, I could buy it but I don't like it.


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> That's what people say when they want it but can't afford it.


Good point Morris:thumbsup:

I deseted to stay with mine DT fork... it's too much crazy to upgrade it for only 50g difference... and for many many $$$:madman: But if you would hear something about upgrade the negative spring to Ti, let me know


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I will Ohad! I've been searching the web for that magic link to the elusive Titanium negative spring and still I can't find it anywhere. I'm pretty sure sooner or later someone will be able to source one. Paging eliflap, nino, and Robert of R2bikes!:thumbsup:


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

So, what are everyone's thoughts on this fork compared to RS, FOX and Durins? I think RockyUphill has owned all of them. Can you give us a review/comparison of the forks?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

limba said:


> So, what are everyone's thoughts on this fork compared to RS, FOX and Durins? I think RockyUphill has owned all of them. Can you give us a review/comparison of the forks?


If you want a light fork that's doing ok for singletrail riding the DT is 1st choice. Those who don't ride too steep and technical trails and those who don't attack such trails with agressive riding will be more than happy. The DT offers a super cushy ride.It soaks up even the smallest ripples. Yet as soon as the trails becomes rough, as soon as you start to push the limits the fork is at its limits as well. I found the DT would go much too easy through it's stroke. The newer "Worldchampion Edition" i got is a bit better than the previous LTD-version i had but still not has the performance of my Rock Shox SID WC i have on my other bike. The DT lacks progression and it would definitely need some more speed sensitive progression damping. As is it blows through the travel and will bottom out too easily. Altering the air pressure results in a harsh ride and it will still lack in progression.

If you want the best perfoming fork for bombing down rough trails with maximum steering precision and best shock absorbtion take the 250g weight penalty and get the RS.
My DT with the special manual lockout weighs 1192g vs. the SID WC with manual (!) lockout that weighs about 1436g.

HOWEVER the added weight can definitely be felt. So it is really a toss up between the light and flickable feel of the decent/good performing DT against the super precise and sponge-like soaking up of the trail irregularities mated to a heavy feel of the front. The weight difference can definitely be felt. Lifting the front with the DT is much easier as is with the RS while steering also feels more nimble with the lighter DT.

I changed bikes back and forth a couple of times already and each fork has its advantages. As said-if you aren't the guy bombing down rough trails the DT is the way to go. On the other hand if you have rough trails and are an agressive rider get the RS as the DT will feel like a wet noodle and you will hold on the grips much thighter than you would with the RS doing the same trail at the same speed....

Another sidenote - while the DT doesn't have the best reputation for wet weather and durability i have yet to hear of any problems of a RS. If you want bombproof fork that basically doesn't need any service the RS is the fork to get.


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## Daniel_E (Apr 26, 2005)

Has anyone tried the new XRC Race (with the DT internals instead of Pace internals) yet to see how it compares to the older design?

It is prohibitively expensive, but if the new internals are better able to compete with RS SID performance it might be worth it.


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## elasto (May 28, 2009)

The new SIDs are even lighter than the one that nino has. I have a 2010 SID Wolrd Cup with the carbon steerer and crown and it weighs in at 1374g without remote lockout lever and steerer cut to approx 170mm. And the 2011 model should be even lighter!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

elasto said:


> The new SIDs are even lighter than the one that nino has. I have a 2010 SID Wolrd Cup with the carbon steerer and crown and it weighs in at 1374g without remote lockout lever and steerer cut to approx 170mm. And the 2011 model should be even lighter!


Yeah - but the newer models ALL come with that (heavy) hydraulic remote lockout so you have to weight that as well as it is part of the fork. As far as i know mine is the latest model that you could get with the crown lockout. That's the reason i stuck with it. Especially the SIDs can be tuned exactly to your likings and i really never ever touch my lockout anyway. Bob is almost non-existent as well. It's all a matter of finding the perfect setup.


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## elasto (May 28, 2009)

nino said:


> Yeah - but the newer models ALL come with that (heavy) hydraulic remote lockout so you have to weight that as well as it is part of the fork. As far as i know mine is the latest model that you could get with the crown lockout. That's the reason i stuck with it. Especially the SIDs can be tuned exactly to your likings and i really never ever touch my lockout anyway. Bob is almost non-existent as well. It's all a matter of finding the perfect setup.


The 2010 SID WC that I have is with a cable lockout system. You can change it to crown lockout with this. I don't have it yet but it doesn't weight any more than the knob I have on my crown now for the remote lockout and the weight of the fork is 1374g with cut steerer! Only the XX model has the hydraulic remote lockout in the 2010 models. The 2011 models have all the hydraulic system I think.

This is my fork: http://www.bike-components.de/produ...Air-Push-Loc-Disc-only-Gabel-Modell-2010.html

I can take a picture of it on the scale if you want.

EDIT: Im not sure if im going to buy the crown lockout lever after all. I will maybe just leave it like that without the remote lockout so I don't have lockout at all. Like you said the fork performs so well when tuned perfect so no lockout needed at all.


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## elasto (May 28, 2009)

Well, I took a picture anyway because I didn't have a picture of it on the scale. It was a little less than I remembered because last time I had the little part from the headset on which goes in the bottom of the steerer.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Thanks for the review Nino.


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## Gee2 (Aug 8, 2004)

Hi

I've been riding the XRC WC for the past 6 months in a lot of XC and Enduro races. It originally had a knocking in the right leg, like loose bushings. After 20hrs use, this got so bad the fork would lock under compression. If you applied the front brake and compressed the fork sort of forwards and down, it would feel fine, so it was definitely the bushings. It was serviced by DT. Now, it still knocks but hasn't seized yet. Reliability = FAIL. As a comparison, I have 2 pairs of SIDs (the new ones) on 2 other bikes and they've worked without failing for 2-3 years. I've stripped and serviced them both once in this time.

As for how it works when it actually works - awesome. I disagree with Nino - riding the SIDs back to back with the XRC, the DT fork is considerably stiffer and plusher. It deals with repeated hits, say on fast rocky descents, a lot better than the SID and I don't feel the wheel twanging about like with the SID.

If they can fix the reliability (I'm approaching the 20hrs again since the service...) the XRC is a brilliant fork.

GB


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Gee2 said:


> I disagree with Nino - riding the SIDs back to back with the XRC, the DT fork is considerably stiffer and plusher. It deals with repeated hits, say on fast rocky descents, a lot better than the SID and I don't feel the wheel twanging about like with the SID.


Sounds like you have too much rebound on your SIDs then. That's an easy fix on the RS.Just a couple of clicks less on rebound and you will blow away your DT-for sure!

The DT is definitely a lot flexier than the SIDs and the damping is not speed sensitive so it is basically a orifice where the oil goes through just like a RS Mag 21 of the past...a little better for sure but nowhere near the damping performance of a new SID. But as mentioned for smoother trails or riders not going that fast a great fork as it will soak up even the tiniest bumbs. For those attacking things a bit faster it shows its limits though.


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## elasto (May 28, 2009)

So nino, still think your 09 sid wc is the lightest you cant get without remote lockout?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

elasto said:


> So nino, still think your 09 sid wc is the lightest you cant get without remote lockout?


no-but i really don't care all that much since the DT is just that much lighter.My SID is mounted in my "spare" Scale which acts as my winterbike or the bike i use if the trails are muddy, that's not where i have the ultimate weight-weenie parts on board...anyway- the weight difference can be felt and as long as RS doesn't get below the 1300g mark the DT gets my vote for offering a light and good performing fork. The SID is better for certain circumstances but the new, improved internals of the DTs latest offering seems level that out while offering even lower weight.

There's the first units out over here and at around 1150g those forks seem to be the ultimate weapon for XC.


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## djphill (May 11, 2008)

nino said:


> There's the first units out over here and at around 1150g those forks seem to be the ultimate weapon for XC.












just brought a pair of them, just waiting for them to be delivered anybody got a review on the 2011 model


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## Gee2 (Aug 8, 2004)

DT ix not flexier - even with the fork out of the bike and grabbing the legs the DT is stiffer. It tracks a lot better than the SID over rocky, rooty descents. 

I haven't got too much damping on the SID - I do know how to set up my fork. It just doesn't move as easily as the DT - the SID has lots more stiction and less responsive to bumps. I've ridden them back to back on the same bike, both set up properly.

The DT is 100% a superior fork - when the damn thing works. Has anyone else had reliability issues?

GB


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Gee2 said:


> DT ix not flexier - even with the fork out of the bike and grabbing the legs the DT is stiffer. It tracks a lot better than the SID over rocky, rooty descents.
> 
> I haven't got too much damping on the SID - I do know how to set up my fork. It just doesn't move as easily as the DT - the SID has lots more stiction and less responsive to bumps. I've ridden them back to back on the same bike, both set up properly.
> 
> ...


well - you're definitely the only one thinking that way.

And to your last question : yes - about all DT owners sooner or later had some issues.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Gee2 said:


> DT ix not flexier - even with the fork out of the bike and grabbing the legs the DT is stiffer. It tracks a lot better than the SID over rocky, rooty descents.
> 
> I haven't got too much damping on the SID - I do know how to set up my fork. It just doesn't move as easily as the DT - the SID has lots more stiction and less responsive to bumps. I've ridden them back to back on the same bike, both set up properly.
> 
> ...


I am not sure what SID you are talking about. 32mm ones are quite plenty stiff - even comparing them to Magura, which are some of the stiffest forks around for the weight.


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## yellowbook (Aug 21, 2005)

How do you like the ride Nino, since the XRC 100 changed the geometry of your bike a bit?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> I am not sure what SID you are talking about. 32mm ones are quite plenty stiff - even comparing them to Magura, which are some of the stiffest forks around for the weight.


ah ok - that might be the reason he has this weird thinking. Me too i guess he is referring to the "old" SID which indeed is flexier. NO WAY the new SIDs are flexier. NO WAY!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

yellowbook said:


> How do you like the ride Nino, since the XRC 100 changed the geometry of your bike a bit?


Good question:
i never wanted to install a 100 fork in my Scale. I already felt the 100 SID was too high and therefore reduced the travel to 80mm. With the 100mm setting the front was raised, the headangle got slackened , the seatangle too and the wheelbase gets longer...all in all i wasn't comfortable and the front would push in corners. With the 80mm setting i got my racersharp handling back. No comparison. with the 100mm fork the Scale became a "sleeper" while the shorter fork made it a fast handling charger.

Now the DT is also longer with the 100mm travel BUt it is so much softer that you ride a lot deeper into the travel than with the SID. This makes it handle very similar to the shorter travel SID. As mentioned many times already it absorbs even the smallest objects and it sinks into its travel when going downhills or while braking or while cornering hard...that's what makes the bike more agile...just like having a shorter fork.

As mentioned it is really a shame the DT has such a simple damping inside. The really new internals of the latest edition should get this corrected which then will raise its performance dramtically. As is it is a good fork. Really good enough for most bikers, just not good enough for hard chargers.


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## yellowbook (Aug 21, 2005)

THX. Doesn't sound like a fork I'd like, I prefer the stiffer kind, which only take the edge off and perform well, when it get's really rough.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

yellowbook said:


> THX. Doesn't sound like a fork I'd like, I prefer the stiffer kind, which only take the edge off and perform well, when it get's really rough.


Me too- that's where the SID shines. Me too i prefer the forks set up on the stiffer side. For the smallest stuff i have the fat tires with low pressure and the fork hasn't to move. This way i get almost no bobbing as well and never have to touch the lockout. I want a fork tho allow me to go fast. Up to medium sized bumbs i can also ride plenty fast using a full rigid fork...i want my bike to track straight on the brakes when going down at speed. I am a late braker and really like to attack the trails which needs a fork that stays up in the travel. I need some bottoming resistance and i still want some travel when hitting the nasty ruts or bumps when on the brakes. A too soft fork is already at the bottom of its stroke when you just apply the brakes on a rougher DH-section and hasn't enough travel left for the bumps...my fork s need to ride higher so i have still some travel left for the real impacts.

The DT on the other hand is a super comfortable fork. It really soaks up smallest stones on the trails which to some might be a great feature...i on the other hand to some degree lack the feel for my front wheel. It is really super smooth until i start going faster....hitting the objects at higher speed results in going through the travel too fast...it dives way too much in the front which is really a weird feeling when coming from my SID. As mentioned it would really work great until you hit a certain speed, a certain way of attacking the trails. That's really when you push. But honestly i don't see too many guys riding at this speed. I am really a hard charger going down or in rougher sections. For the normal biker the DT is really a super sweet ride.
For the agressive charger it is too mushy. I haven't found a way to get rid of that uber-smoothness yet. Altering just the air pressure results in a harsh ride while the fork still bottoms out (it lacks speed sensitive damping!). I think i would still like more oil so you would get some progression from the oil level. I think this would help. BUT i still didn't care enough to look for that special DT fork cap tool which would allow me to alter the oil level. On a SID you can do all service work on your own.Not so on the DT....another strong point for the SID in my book.

But as mentioned the DT Worldchampion Edition i ride actually already feels better than the previous LTD version i had. With that LTD fork i really had to go slower on the downhills as it would bottom out too easily and make for dangerous situations. The actual one is already much better but still lacks to give me that super secure feel of the SID. The SID tracks straight and feels planted to the ground while riding the DT you feel its spongyness and it also twitches much more than the SID. Therefore i find myself grabbing the handlebar harder with the DT than i do with the SID which just goes where i point it.

As mentioned already- if i could get a SID at sub 1300g i think i would have no worries about the DT. But as is the light front is really making a difference as well and for most situations the DT is really a nice fork. If the latest editionDT with the all new internals alters it's suspension performance (it finally has speed sensitive damping !!) we could have a clear winner. I sure hope DT also improved some quality issues which seem to exist with the current versions. If that's cured the new DT is hard to be overlooked.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Coming from a SID World Cup, I never got over how much stiction it had. Its not a smooth fork. My DT WC on the other hand has zero stiction and super smooth. I agree that it does bottom amount too easily though. If only there's a cure for this this would be a perfect fork for me.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> Coming from a SID World Cup, I never got over how much stiction it had. Its not a smooth fork. My DT WC on the other hand has zero stiction and super smooth. I agree that it does bottom amount too easily though. If only there's a cure for this this would be a perfect fork for me.


All your SID would need is a service and re-lube. I just did that to my SID and it is buttersmooth again. But as mentioned the supersmooth-sofalike, ultra-cushion feeling of the DT is unmatched....BUT for me this is not what i want, not what i ask from a fork.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I got the fork brand spankin' new and it's stiction was bad from the start. I was even hoping that maybe it just needed some break-in period but after a year of riding it, it was still as bad. That's why I'm still enjoying the super smooth action of my DT and pretty much ignoring the fact that it does easily bottom out.
Plus, as nino pointed out, having a light fork is very noticeable. The bike feels more agile. But the front tends to rise a bit easier now too during short very steep climbs so I'm contemplating on switching to a flat bar.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

morrisgarages said:


> I got the fork brand spankin' new and it's stiction was bad from the start. I was even hoping that maybe it just needed some break-in period but after a year of riding it, it was still as bad. That's why I'm still enjoying the super smooth action of my DT and pretty much ignoring the fact that it does easily bottom out.
> Plus, as nino pointed out, having a light fork is very noticeable. The bike feels more agile. But the front tends to rise a bit easier now too during short very steep climbs so I'm contemplating on switching to a flat bar.


Well-then it sounds more like you would have needed more pressure in the negative air chamber which is responsible for the small stuff.

The ability to actually dial in the way the fork reacts is what i like most about the SID. On the DT you have no way to adjust any damping characteristic. All you can do is adjust the air-pressure setting.

On the SID i'm able to adjust it the way i wantt it. Soft in the beginning to harder in the end and viceversa...ultrasupple or racer-stiff, from a bobbing nightmare to full rigid.....it can do it all - IF you are able to adjust it right with all the dial options it offers.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

morrisgarages said:


> I got the fork brand spankin' new and it's stiction was bad from the start.


It is not out of the realm of possibility that a brand new fork needs some TLC and setup. It is also not very easy to setup negative pressure just right for SID in my experience. Did not find it particularly sticky - though not as nice as Magura. (yeah, I do like recent Magura's forks)


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## jan erik (Dec 2, 2007)

Im looking like a really big questionmark at the moment trying to track down the Dt swiss xrc 100 race. Allthough a lot of shops list them, they seems to be uncertain of whats new or old types. According to Dt Swiss HP the XRC 100 comes in 3 different flavours:XRC 100/XRC100 Race and XRC 100 Race World Champ Edition. The first two got the all new Twin Shot Damping and the latter got the revamped Pace Rc 39 design with Air coil negative.

So;you should be looking at the XRC 100 Race. Which is listed as 1170 grams. But thats without the remote lockout. I kind of liked the Pace remote so i wanted that.

And now the fun begins. Several shops is listing the XRC, but they seem to be puzzled too about the versions. The World Champ version should be clearly recognazible with the WC stripes.So thats easy. But what to look for when I needed the remote lock out ? I dont know!

Lets take an example:

http://www.bike-mailorder.de/shop/M...fork-2010/DT-Swiss-2010:::178_33_607_637.html

Here they list two XRC 100 forks.The Champ is easy. BUT they list twin shot Damping!
The XRC race 100 LTD LO looks promising. Twin shoot damping . 1170 grams. remote lock out. Carbon steerer. This is it! But the LTD meaning an older version? And the picture shows no remote? Well some E mails and a telephone to the Germans they claim that this arrived on Friday and got new internals. So order is under way and I keep my fingers crossed for the "right" version.

Allso;some mention a 3 position remote lock out:
http://www.tredz.co.uk/.DT-Swiss-XRC-100-Race-Fork-Q-R-Remote-Lock-Out-2010_35001.htm

If you want the World Champ version I think chainreaction got them around 600 euros(allthough,again listed with twin shot damping.)

And DT Swiss;please get youre versions straightened out. There is no need for this confusion!


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