# Park Tool cog pliers in the works?



## Pro4tundra (Mar 21, 2009)

Saw a picture that Park slipped out on their Facebook accidentally of a new alternative to the caveman-esque chainwhip we've all learned to deal with. Looks like a pair of cog/cassette pliers. I asked them about it and said it wasn't supposed to be leaked out and release is well down the road one month to 5 years to use their exact words. Looks promising!


----------



## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Looks like a 75 dollar tool. My 15 dollar tool works just fine


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Make one for 10.


----------



## Tripower (Jan 4, 2011)

tiretracks said:


> Make one for 10.


Use an old chain and vise grips. Total cost - free


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

I don't really see that as an improvement in leverage or efficiency over the "caveman-esque chainwhip".


----------



## dhmtbj (Jul 31, 2009)

I wonder where they got that idea...http://pedros.com/products/tools/cassette-and-chain/vise-whip/

thanks for the sneak peak!


----------



## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

I'll buy the made in the USA one over the made in Taiwan one (as long as they get their s#it together)


----------



## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Less arm strength still required, on chain whip...I'm sticking to caveman tech.


----------



## Psycle151 (Dec 20, 2005)

A tool like this is the clear evolution of cassette removal. Requiring only one hand, vs two hands for the whip. Unless you've got Indiana Jones-level whipping skills. 

Park is weird though. On one hand they went with NASA-level-engineering when it came to their amazing, peerless crown race puller. But a horrific product like their wheel dishing gauge is left to languish behind almost every competitors'.


----------



## Psycle151 (Dec 20, 2005)

Zachariah said:


> Less arm strength still required, on chain whip...I'm sticking to caveman tech.


How so? With both tools being the same length.


----------



## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Gotta agree.....don't see how this is really an improvement over the chain whip. Looks like a very expensive tool to do the same exact job as an inexpensive chain whip.


----------



## Psycle151 (Dec 20, 2005)

mtnbikej said:


> Gotta agree.....don't see how this is really an improvement over the chain whip. Looks like a very expensive tool to do the same exact job as an inexpensive chain whip.


Does it really look that expensive? I'm sure it will cost significantly less than Zinn's/Pedro's Vicewhip. It's clearly faster than a chain whip. And for those brutally tight lock rings, those ergonomic grips are gonna feel much better than the thin, rigid side of a chain whip.

But ultimately, this is one of those tools that's gonna be more popular in shops than in peoples' basements. Where the increased efficiency may amount to something. For most folks at home, the whip will remain ...fine.


----------



## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

I use the Pedro's vice-grip tool in the shop. The chain whips are packed away in a box somewhere, hidden from sight, where they belong.


----------



## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

I've never been able to understand why some people don't like a chain whip. It's simple and does the job well. When the vice whip came out I really wanted to like it but it wasn't meant to be for me. 

Honestly I think the Park plier is a step backwards. Not only do you have to apply leverage, but you also have to hold the plier together, requiring even more strength. At least with the traditional chain whip you can just loop it over the cassette and push on it.


----------



## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Fully agree that the chain whip has very little need for replacement by other methods. Although seeing the Park experiment alongside the Pedro's thing may just inspire me to play around with modifying a pair of swivel pad locking c-clamps as a cross between the two...


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Psycle151 said:


> How so? With both tools being the same length.


You have to squeeze and hold the plier type tight, whereas no grip pressure is involved with a chain whip. With the right technique using a chain whip is an easy one handed job.


----------



## jrastories (Aug 2, 2008)

This is the most comfortable chain whip I have ever used, the handle is long enough to go past the end of a 700C wheel, almost for a 29er. for those really stubborn cassette lock rings I just stuff it in the corner so it backs onto the wall or set it on the ground so all i have to worry about is the lockring tool, don't even have to touch the chain whip.


----------



## MitchD (Jun 16, 2010)

Personally it looks like a solution in search of a problem. This comes from an admitted tool junkie


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

MitchD said:


> Personally it looks like a solution in search of a problem.


I think you're on to something.


----------



## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

MitchD said:


> Personally it looks like a solution in search of a problem. This comes from an admitted tool junkie


I think the problem is that some people were never shown how to use a chain whip and think there must be an easier way.


----------



## MidwestBike (Jan 9, 2014)

I own a bike shop. I know how to use a chain whip. The Pedros tool is better.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MidwestBike said:


> I own a bike shop. I know how to use a chain whip. The Pedros tool is better.


What makes it better? I haven't used one but it seems like it might be a little slower because you would either have to make sure it was on the right size cog that you had it set for or readjust it every time, with a chainwhip I can fling it over any old cog and it doesn't matter.


----------



## Psycle151 (Dec 20, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> You have to squeeze and hold the plier type tight


Since no one's ever used this tool, it remains to be seen just how much squeezing effort is required. My guess: Not very much at all.

I don't have any beef with whips. But I think this plier-type is the future. A modest, incremental advance in technology is still an advance.

For novices, chain whips are not intuitive. It isn't super obvious to a first-timer which direction to wrap the chain around the cog.

Now for F's sake, get to improving that $#%&@ dishing gauge!


----------



## thomllama (Oct 3, 2007)

I think the pliers would be much easier,.. not that the whip is exactly difficult but I've had more than one occasion when I wasn't exactly in the best position or the wheel was at a funny angle and the chain from the whip slipped/fell off the cog.. the pliers look to be much easier and faster.. but then the Perdo's one is WAY outa hand in price and I'll stick to the whip I got for like 9 bucks.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Psycle151 said:


> Now for F's sake, get to improving that $#%&@ dishing gauge!


What's the problem there? I can't imagine anything simpler.


----------



## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

Put a metal washer between the plastic knob and the sliding indicator and it's vastly improved.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

trboxman said:


> Put a metal washer between the plastic knob and the sliding indicator and it's vastly improved.


I wasn't sure what you were talking about until I googled the park dish tool and saw that it has changed since I used it. I rescind my previous post- that tool appears to suck, I much preferred the old design.


----------



## trboxman (Jul 7, 2010)

I gotta say that adding the washer makes it really quick and easy to use, you set the knob tension once and the indicator slides up and down with ease with just the right amount of resistance. Also, I do like the stand off blocks that let you check dish on a wheel with the tire mounted. It's just a shame that Park couldn't be bothered with an extra .03 to make their product better.


----------



## Psycle151 (Dec 20, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> What's the problem there? I can't imagine anything simpler.


To really put in perspective how bad the Park WAG-4 is, it helps to have used either the EVT dish gauge or the VAR Tools model (new OR old version). All of these employ gravity to drop the middle "depth slider" onto the hub locknut. It's a one-handed operation.

With the Park you've got to manually push the "depth feeler" down to the hub. There's a lot of friction, but be careful not to push too hard, or you'll flex the tool or make it lift off where it's touching the rim. Both resulting in screwed up readings.

You could always unscrew the knob fully and let the feeler drop to the hub. Except when you tighten the knob again to lock in the measurement, the feeler has a way of lifting up off the hub slightly. So that basically puts you back at square one. When the game is measured in fractions of a millimeter, this kind of imprecision is a deal-breaker.

The ONE thing Park had going was that unlike the EVT or the old VAR, the Park was equally effective with the tire on. Because before using, you would slide these small plastic blocks into place, where they would only contact the rim and not touch the tire. INEXPLICABLY, there were no markings on the tool to tell you where to position the blocks based on the wheel size in use. So it was a tedious "guess and check" affair.

Enter the new VAR model: It's got the same fast action slider, but with a moving block system like the Park. Except it's got location markings on the arms for all the major wheel sizes.

The Park is overpriced at $50. The VAR is a solid value at $100.


----------



## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

MidwestBike said:


> I own a bike shop. I know how to use a chain whip. The Pedros tool is better.
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G730A using Tapatalk


That is the thing about tools, everybody likes something different.

I tried really hard to like the vice whip, but it's just slow to use. I think JB Weld is pretty spot on. You need to either take the time to put it on the same cog every time or readjust it every time. Sure it's more secure once it's on but it's not worth the trouble for me.

The only tool that stands a legitimate chance of replacing a chain whip is the Sein Hyper Handle. Biggest drawback is that it's still plate steel and while it's well made it's not comfortable to use.


----------



## Diesel~ (Feb 17, 2008)

customfab said:


> I've never been able to understand why some people don't like a chain whip. It's simple and does the job well. When the vice whip came out I really wanted to like it but it wasn't meant to be for me.


Gotta agree. Have 3 or 4 chain whips, and I picked up the vice whip a few years ago, since it seemed like a good idea, and I enjoy trying new tools.

I haven't found much of an advantage, and it does take more time to use. I haven't gone back to the chain whip (unless I need to free stuck cogs on an alu FH body), mostly for the irrational reason of having invested the $ in the VW.

-D


----------



## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Here you go!

Park Tool Co. » Park Tool Co.


----------



## Ridefat1981 (Mar 17, 2014)

The Pedro's vice whip is awesome. I've got one in my tool box at my shop. I use it every day.


----------



## rayms (Sep 27, 2015)

jrastories said:


> View attachment 898953
> 
> 
> This is the most comfortable chain whip I have ever used, the handle is long enough to go past the end of a 700C wheel, almost for a 29er. for those really stubborn cassette lock rings I just stuff it in the corner so it backs onto the wall or set it on the ground so all i have to worry about is the lockring tool, don't even have to touch the chain whip.


Do the tools mentioned here work for freewheels too or just cassette lockrings?


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

rayms said:


> Do the tools mentioned here work for freewheels too or just cassette lockrings?


Freewheel removal requires a dedicated tool specific to maker;

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/freewheel-removal-and-installation


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

rayms said:


> Do the tools mentioned here work for freewheels too or just cassette lockrings?


They work for removing individual cogs but you need 2 of them.


----------

