# Pedals



## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

I think the first thing I want to upgrade on my bike will be the pedals. I was looking at some Shimano A530s. I was wondering it anyone can give me some advice. I'm wanting some that will be good for regular shoes, but also will have the ability to use clips since that will also be in my upgrade list for me. Thanks for any help.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Make a decision and commit. Those dual-use pedals have a couple fans, but I'm not one of them. I feel like I always get the wrong side.

Do you have a bike yet? What's on it now? What kind of riding do you do?


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## Welch621 (Mar 28, 2012)

I have some A-530's on my road bike because i like the regular SPD Cleat for road riding. I like the pedals but i dont think i would want them on a mountain bike. Its hard enough sometimes to clip in hitting roots and rocks let alone find the correct side. Shimano 520 pedals are what many people including myself started on. Adjustable tension and durability make them one of the best pedals around as well as being dual entry. Since someone convinced me to ride TIME ATAC i havent looked back though. Best pedals on the market in my opinion.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

I just got a Diamondback Response XE. So far I've just been riding it on the road to build up my stamina and get in shape, but I'm really wanting to get on some single track. I guess my best way to go would be to wait and save up for some shoes and pedals at the same time.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

If you want to ride singletrack, go ride singletrack. Just pace yourself or take breaks or whatever. But there's no reason not to start after work this evening, or at least this weekend.

Cycling shoes are not a good place to save money. IME, the one that retail under $100 or so aren't worth buying. Is it really worth $150 to you to be clipped in? Plenty of riders choose to ride flats. Having better pedals still makes a big difference, but you can spend a lot less.

The gear can really detract from this sport if you let it. If you need to save for something, question whether you really need it.

Can you post a pic of your stock pedals?


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## Welch621 (Mar 28, 2012)

When i started out i felt i had to go clipless. All my friends rode like that so naturally i felt the faster i go to them the better i will be. After the first few falls of getting used to them i was ok for riding them. Then i had my first wreck in them and i didnt come all the way unclipped until the bike was above me and i was on my face. After that i was so scared of wrecking because i couldnt unclip fast enough. Because of that i took the easy routes down hills or walked my bike across rock gardens because i didnt want to my laid up again and miss work with an injury like i had before. I decided at this point i was going to ride flats for the rest of the year and really learn to ride and to tackle harder terrain. Knowing that i could put my foot down immediately if i needed to enabled me to tackle those rock gardens where i was walking and it allowed me to become a better rider.

Now i ride clipless once again but i dont find myself thinking about it. Its natural enough to me now that i can dab my foot just as if im on flats and i can clip in and out without thinking of it, but i really think going back to flats while beginning helped my confidence tremendously.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Here is my bike, a Diamondback Response XE 26. I got it at a ***** Sporting Goods so some of the components are lower spec. Which is o.k. with me because I couldn't and didn't want to drop a load of money on my first bike. And the pics are from getting home from my 4.5 mile loop that I've been doing three out of the four days I've owned it. Oh and here are the pedals too. I'm just really wanting to upgrade to something more durable than the stock plastic ones.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Some bikes ship with credible pedals lately. Though I think you'll enjoy the difference if you get something nicer.

At the low end, Redline Alloy pedals cost under $20 and have concave faces. I used a set to practice technique without a clipless mechanism to let me cheat, then lent them to a friend who may still be riding with them.

Moving up in price gets you adjustable, replaceable pins and better bearings. I'm sure someone who likes clipless better will chime in with a recommendation.


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## Max24 (Jan 31, 2013)

zzr600batesville said:


> I think the first thing I want to upgrade on my bike will be the pedals. I was looking at some Shimano A530s. I was wondering it anyone can give me some advice. I'm wanting some that will be good for regular shoes, but also will have the ability to use clips since that will also be in my upgrade list for me. Thanks for any help.


What's your budget?


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## Welch621 (Mar 28, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Some bikes ship with credible pedals lately. Though I think you'll enjoy the difference if you get something nicer.
> 
> At the low end, Redline Alloy pedals cost under $20 and have concave faces. I used a set to practice technique without a clipless mechanism to let me cheat, then lent them to a friend who may still be riding with them.
> 
> Moving up in price gets you adjustable, replaceable pins and better bearings. I'm sure someone who likes clipless better will chime in with a recommendation.


As I said earlier I ride clipless but that doesn't mean you have too. You need to ride what makes you confident. Not what others tell you to ride.

Also your bike is perfectly capable for starting out on. A $3000+ full suspension may make you feel better but certainly won't make you a better rider. In fact if you read listen to some people who have been doing this awhile you will see a lot of people recommend starting off on a hard tail. This way you learn to ride the bike. You learn to keep the rear on the ground using technique instead of suspension. I know a few guys who started out on a lower end hard tail and rode for years with it. They could out ride many people on high end full suspensions. Once they could afford a high end FS they were straight up blowing by people.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Don't get me wrong I love my bike. I've got two weekends that I'm tied close to home but after that I'm planning on getting out on some trails. I felt like a hard tail would be a better choice starting off. I don't think I will change much until I have to, but I would like to have some metal (of some sort) pedals.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Racing = Yes Clipless
Light Trails = Yes Clipless
Agressive Trail Riding = Flat Pedals and 510 shoes.
You can try the half and half but it's a slippery slope for most riders end up going one way or the other when they become experianced enough to know what works best for their trails and bike and personal pref.
Most do not usually keeping the 50/50 pedals in play though.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Chainlove.com has 510 shes on sale for 50% off every week. Keep an eye out and snag some.

I used to ride clipless but when I started riding more aggressively it just wouldn't work now I use really good pedals and five ten shoes and my feet feel like they are glued on to the bike. Not left wanting for clipless for trail riding.

For long road rides it makes complete sence to use clipless.
But I need/want more maneuverability on trail riding.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Face Plant with Flat Pedals


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Face Plant while clipped in.

They look similar but the flat pedals prevent a lot of unnecessary tangling up into the bike on falls when riding aggressively or on rough terrain.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Ouch on both!


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## Welch621 (Mar 28, 2012)

Having the bike come over me clipped in is a feeling I know all to well. Maybe I need to improve my riding skills some haha


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

OP, your saddle is more than likely too low also. I noticed in the picture. Unless you are 5'1", it probably needs to come up a bit.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Get some nice wellgo flat / platform pedals on the cheap.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Trail_Blazer said:


> Get some nice wellgo flat / platform pedals on the cheap.


Seconded. Their V8 copy pedals are dirt cheap if a bit heavy. MG-1's are a lot lighter and a bit thinner.

On road - clipped
Off road - flat


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## azdave (Mar 10, 2014)

I'm using the Forté convert platform pedals from performance bike along with 510 shoes I love them but they are not without there drawbacks those pins do hurt when the smack your shin.

Forté Convert Platform Pedals - Mountain Bike Pedals


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I traded flat pedals with pointy spikes to some with flat head spikes. The flat head spikes grip my shoes better actually while not being so deadly to skin.
I have fallen on them several times with no skin breaks. My old pedals would make me bleed just standing next to the bike didn't have to fall on them to hurt ya. LoL

Old spikes were Canfield Crampons.
New ones with flatter spike are Deity brand.


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## djska (Jan 30, 2005)

zzr600batesville said:


> I think the first thing I want to upgrade on my bike will be the pedals. I was looking at some Shimano A530s. I was wondering it anyone can give me some advice. I'm wanting some that will be good for regular shoes, but also will have the ability to use clips since that will also be in my upgrade list for me. Thanks for any help.


Don't even bother with going clipless, keep on using flat pedals with good pins. There's hardly a performance benefit (compared to just going out and ride more) and it's a lot more fun.
Beginners are brainwashed to go clipless/SPD like you have to, to be a real biker. Don't listen to this.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Thanks for the info everyone. I will just order me some good flat pedals and not bother with the clip less ones. And TenSpeed I raised my saddle some and it gave me more room and a better ride. THANKS ALL.


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## Corey90 (Aug 2, 2014)

Nothing beats a pair of 5-10s and a set of shimano saint flats 👍👍👍 take out the washers of the pins for a little extra grip 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

^ except being clipped in, which has THE most grip physically possible since you are connected to the pedal. 510's and pinned flats are nice, but NOTHING offers more grip than being clipped in. It isn't for everyone, but lets call it like it is.


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## Corey90 (Aug 2, 2014)

TenSpeed said:


> ^ except being clipped in, which has THE most grip physically possible since you are connected to the pedal. 510's and pinned flats are nice, but NOTHING offers more grip than being clipped in. It isn't for everyone, but lets call it like it is.


Haha sorry, I think that's the best flats combo I've tried for grip. I personally don't ride clips so can't really comment on that side of things, each to there own ?

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## pitbullandmtb (Jul 31, 2011)

Corey90 said:


> Nothing beats a pair of 5-10s and a set of shimano saint flats take out the washers of the pins for a little extra grip
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This a great combo with economical pedals. I love the 5-10's and Crampon Ultimate Pedals combo.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

zzr600batesville said:


> Thanks for the info everyone. I will just order me some good flat pedals and not bother with the clip less ones. And TenSpeed I raised my saddle some and it gave me more room and a better ride. THANKS ALL.


Glad you found what you came for.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I am a very new biker in general and extremely new to Mountain biking specifically, and have suffered through this question. My neighbor who is one of those rediculous people that could pedal up the side of a redwood and competes in races literally all over the world uses Shimano style clipless pedals. Naturally I decided to use him as an example and went that route to and purchased a set of the Shimano pedals that clip on one side and have a flat on the other. This is a terrible design as the flat is slicker than waxed floor and it takes forever to flip over to it when starting out. It also suffers from USB syndome in that regardless of which you need flat or clipped it is never the side you try by feel meaning you will be looking down trying to figure out if the clip is up or down....After my first introduction to a (from what I am told) pretty easy rock garden I learned clipped pedals can be a bit hazardous to us newbies.
I then went to the Bike store and purchased a pair of Saints, as the store only stocks that brand it seems. They were okay I guess, but word of advice remove the washers from the screws and it works much better. I found this out after I replaced them with a much stickier and lighter pedal. 
I have since ended up with a pair of Atlas pedals, expensive but I am really happy with them. I also will recommend a pair of 510's, they just work.
I will say there are definate benefits to clipless, especially when climbing. This being said, the flats are better to learn on.
Just the perspective of someone else who recently went through this.


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

Phinias said:


> I am a very new biker in general and extremely new to Mountain biking specifically, and have suffered through this question. My neighbor who is one of those rediculous people that could pedal up the side of a redwood and competes in races literally all over the world uses Shimano style clipless pedals. Naturally I decided to use him as an example and went that route to and purchased a set of the Shimano pedals that clip on one side and have a flat on the other. This is a terrible design as the flat is slicker than waxed floor and it takes forever to flip over to it when starting out. It also suffers from USB syndome in that regardless of which you need flat or clipped it is never the side you try by feel meaning you will be looking down trying to figure out if the clip is up or down....After my first introduction to a (from what I am told) pretty easy rock garden I learned clipped pedals can be a bit hazardous to us newbies.
> I then went to the Bike store and purchased a pair of Saints, as the store only stocks that brand it seems. They were okay I guess, but word of advice remove the washers from the screws and it works much better. I found this out after I replaced them with a much stickier and lighter pedal.
> I have since ended up with a pair of Atlas pedals, expensive but I am really happy with them. I also will recommend a pair of 510's, they just work.
> I will say there are definate benefits to clipless, especially when climbing. This being said, the flats are better to learn on.
> Just the perspective of someone else who recently went through this.


This is great information for me, who like the OP, has just gotten into the sport. I was going back and forth over clipless or flats and I literally just ordered a pair of 5.10 Freerider VXis after reading your post. I will see how these do with the stock composite platforms that came on my Crave, before I order any pedals. If I find I need them sooner rather than later, do have any recommendations for a pedal a little more moderately priced than the Atlas?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

RaleighMTB said:


> I will see how these do with the stock composite platforms that came on my Crave, before I order any pedals.


Plastic pedals are rubbish. They are far too slippery when they are wet, even if they have plastic 'pins' on them.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

RaleighMTB said:


> If I find I need them sooner rather than later, do have any recommendations for a pedal a little more moderately priced than the Atlas?


Yes the Shimano Saints are great like I said once you remove the washers and they are much cheaper than the Atlas pedals. One note since you new like me. I have found that buying intermediate less costly parts only cause me to eventually replace them with the more expensive parts later thereby spending atleast 50% more in the long run. Not such an issue with the Saints as they will last for awhile IMO, but if weight will be a thing for you than save up a bit and go for the nicest parts you can.

In all seriousness lots of people here recommend Wellego (think I have the name right) pedals, inexpensive and quality from the reviews. I am sure someone can give you the good models to look at, and I think some good ones go for between $20 and $60 if memory serves me.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Phinias said:


> lots of people here recommend Wellego pedals, inexpensive and quality from the reviews.


My son's bike came with a pair of 'VP' branded pedals. I thought I would upgrade him to a pair of Wellgo V8-Copy pedals in white to match his bike. The cheaper VP pedals are thinner, lighter and have exactly the same platform area and pin coverage. I can't remember the number on the, VP make quite a lot of pedals, but in my opinion they're a better buy than the Wellgo V8. Next time the bike's out I'll look at the number.


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

Awesome input guys. Phinias, I need you to come talk to my wife! "Buy once..cry once..."(or something like that...)


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

You laugh, but the secret I found was get my wife hooked with me. After my neighbor drug me out finally to a trail I knew I had to share the experience with her. So when the Giant factory demo was at our local trail system I drug her out with us and plopped her on the most expensive bike they had in her size and geometry, with which she fell instantly in love with. She had a blast and inquired about the bike and found out it was about $6k all said and done and so I had an instant bench mark set in her head. It is cake from there.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

^^^^The best possible course for anyone is demo on a high quality bike.

For most intermediate to not superfast advanced trails almost any pedal with pins and trailrunners will work as long as you use the low heels technique.


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

Phinias said:


> You laugh, but the secret I found was get my wife hooked with me. After my neighbor drug me out finally to a trail I knew I had to share the experience with her. So when the Giant factory demo was at our local trail system I drug her out with us and plopped her on the most expensive bike they had in her size and geometry, with which she fell instantly in love with. She had a blast and inquired about the bike and found out it was about $6k all said and done and so I had an instant bench mark set in her head. It is cake from there.


I got her a specialized as well a week or so before I got mine, but she doesn't know mine was 3-times the cost of hers. But, since I balance the books, she is pretty good about letting me have my toys without asking questions, within reason.

So I am looking at the Shimano Saints (PD-MX80) and some Xpedo Spry's that I saw someone in an MTBR Article's comments suggested. The bottom of the 5.10 Freeriders are almost completely flat. Do I need to take that into account when looking at the pin lengths?


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

eb1888 said:


> ^^^^The best possible course for anyone is demo on a high quality bike.
> 
> For most intermediate to not superfast advanced trails almost any pedal with pins and trailrunners will work as long as you use the low heels technique.


Wow..great link!


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

No. While the 510's look completely flat there is actual wave style tread in them. My experience you want anywhere between 1/8 up to 1/4 of pin. No this is probably just preference and could change as style evolves, but right now 1/4 inch or just shy of it works best for me.


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## Boondock77 (Jun 16, 2014)

Considering trying this vs my stock pedals.... 
Around $30 depending on color. 380 grams range
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00E7UZ7FM...lid=1DE23I0GBIJBB&coliid=I3Q9XVGIMOC2FH&psc=1


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

My only hesitation is there is only 1 internal pin...This may make no difference what so ever and the price makes it painless to expermiment. Let me know how they work.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

TenSpeed said:


> ^ except being clipped in, which has THE most grip physically possible since you are connected to the pedal. 510's and pinned flats are nice, but NOTHING offers more grip than being clipped in. It isn't for everyone, but lets call it like it is.


But if your not clipped in on a clip less pedal your grip is super sketchy. Just got back from riding 7 straight days in Whistler, 5 of it on open pedals and didn't wish I had clip less on the days I was riding open, but a number of times when riding clipped in wished I was on opens. Fine for most of the XC trails, but when hittin technical sketchy sections definitely not as nice. Trying to start in the middle of a sketchy rocky dh section with clip less pedals is tough, open pedals your on and going in a flash.


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

Phinias said:


> My only hesitation is there is only 1 internal pin...This may make no difference what so ever and the price makes it painless to expermiment. Let me know how they work.


What is an internal pin, where is it, and what does it do?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

So if you look at the pedal it has those pins/screws sticking up. There is just 1 in the middle while the others are on the perimiter. The saint has 2 that are in the very middle.
http://media.chainreactioncycles.com//is/image/ChainReactionCycles/prod82557_IMGSET?wid=500&hei=500

I have found Saints for sale all over the net for $60, I guess I would suggest those as an inexpensive yet solid pedal.


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## Boondock77 (Jun 16, 2014)

RaleighMTB said:


> What is an internal pin, where is it, and what does it do?


Think he is talking about only one pin being in the middle of the pedal vs the edges. 
These are esting too... Super light but no reviews Amazon.com : Lerway Bike Bicycle MTB Platform Flat Pedals CNC Spindle Steel Axle (Black) : Sports & Outdoors


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

I was looking at the VP 001s also. They have 4 internal pins and seem to be available at a decent price if you look around.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I would be very wary of recommending an aluminum pedal made that lightly, especially for someone as new to this as Raleigh and I are. I am not sure about him, but I am still good for 4 or 5 good pedal strikes a week.


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## Boondock77 (Jun 16, 2014)

Phinias said:


> I would be very wary of recommending an aluminum pedal made that lightly, especially for someone as new to this as Raleigh and I are. I am not sure about him, but I am still good for 4 or 5 good pedal strikes a week.


I didn't recommend them... They are magnesium also. Just wondering if anyone has used them.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

The pedals that came on my son's bike were VP 565. They are about 4mm thinner than Wellgo V8-copy, a good bit lighter and the pins are about 1mm longer. Being on a teenager's bike they have not been cosseted and have stood up fine. Just another cheap pedal that gets the job done.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Taroroot said:


> But if your not clipped in on a clip less pedal your grip is super sketchy. Just got back from riding 7 straight days in Whistler, 5 of it on open pedals and didn't wish I had clip less on the days I was riding open, but a number of times when riding clipped in wished I was on opens. Fine for most of the XC trails, but when hittin technical sketchy sections definitely not as nice. Trying to start in the middle of a sketchy rocky dh section with clip less pedals is tough, open pedals your on and going in a flash.


There is no reason to not be clipped in when riding clipless. Never once have I been on a trail wishing that I had flats. Usually I am just thankful that I ride clipless. That goes for all of my bikes, fat bike to my track bike. Even in a wreck, I have never been pissed that I couldn't get unclipped. If I wreck, it has nothing to do with being clipped in or not.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Chainlove. I've found really good deals on shoes <$100.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

TenSpeed said:


> Never once have I been on a trail wishing that I had flats.


I guess it depends on what you ride and how. Flats are a poor substitute for being attached to the pedals when riding on the road or on relatively flat trails but when things get sketchy I personally do_ not_ want to have my feet nailed to the bike.

On a loose, steep climb for instance. If you lose traction and stop you need to get your foot down instantly. Then try getting moving again while trying to get clipped back in as well. I've tried both and I'm happy with flats off road. All I'm saying is that clipless does not work for everything.


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## nexttozen (Jul 15, 2014)

Mr Pig said:


> I guess it depends on what you ride and how. Flats are a poor substitute for being attached to the pedals when riding on the road or on relatively flat trails but when things get sketchy I personally do_ not_ want to have my feet nailed to the bike.
> 
> On a loose, steep climb for instance. If you lose traction and stop you need to get your foot down instantly. Then try getting moving again while trying to get clipped back in as well. I've tried both and I'm happy with flats off road. All I'm saying is that clipless does not work for everything.


+1. well said.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I agree with the Pig.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> I guess it depends on what you ride and how. Flats are a poor substitute for being attached to the pedals when riding on the road or on relatively flat trails but when things get sketchy I personally do_ not_ want to have my feet nailed to the bike.
> 
> On a loose, steep climb for instance. If you lose traction and stop you need to get your foot down instantly. Then try getting moving again while trying to get clipped back in as well. I've tried both and I'm happy with flats off road. All I'm saying is that clipless does not work for everything.


I have done this before. Learning to get unclipped quickly takes time, and once you have that mastered, there shouldn't be an issue. In the time it takes you to lose traction, you can mentally prepare yourself to get unclipped and drop your foot. It becomes very natural. As for climbing after unclipping, simply put your foot on the pedal and get going, clipping in one side at a time as you get moving. Again, you learn this the more you do it.

This fear mongering that flat pedal users have is just unreal. It is not rocket science, hell, it isn't that hard to master. I agree that it is not for everyone, but I think that everyone should at least try it before deciding that it is or isn't for them.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

TenSpeed said:


> I have done this before. Learning to get unclipped quickly takes time, and once you have that mastered, there shouldn't be an issue. In the time it takes you to lose traction, you can mentally prepare yourself to get unclipped and drop your foot. It becomes very natural.


Yes, I've done it before as well. I only bought flats relatively recently so I'm well aware of what it's like to ride off road nailed on and I don't agree with you. Sure, you _can_ ride anything clipped but that doesn't mean it's better that way.

I don't see Danny MacAskill clipping in at the start of a session? Or those down-hill or free-ride guys? Or any trick riders? In fact the only people I've _ever_ seen using clippless off road are cross-country riders on relatively non-technical trails.

It's a matter of choice, if you like clippless for the trails you ride then cool, I'm not arguing with you. But they are not always the right choice and sometimes they are positively asking for pain.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

TenSpeed said:


> I agree that it is not for everyone, but I think that everyone should at least try it before deciding that it is or isn't for them.


That is a very expensive experiment and truly I think you have it backwards
More MTBers use flats than clip in, in my estimation.

I like both for different riding conditions, not sure why you see it so black and white, no trail could ever justify flats?

Seems risky to apply that view to the general public, especially newcomers.
Risk, of injury to the body and pocket book.
It's a very expensive venture potentially.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

With the right deal, it can be done for about $100. I don't mean to go out and get Sidi Dominators and XTR pedals. It is completely a personal preference, but the fear mongering needs to slow down a little.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I'll agree there could be a more open attitude on both sides.
Honestly, I love both on different occasions.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

"In the wild," I see more riders using clipless pedals. However, it's also something that goes with different riding styles. Guys that mostly gain elevation on fire roads and descend on singletrack and flow lines, I see more flat pedals.

Personally, I only use clipless. I have a set of flats in a drawer and I practice with them every now and then, but they're a special circumstances thing for me. Practicing wheelies, working on bunny hops without being able to cheat, being able to ride in water proof biking boots when there's a lot of snow, that kind of thing.

I very rarely endo. I've only brought the bike over on top of me with my pedals once. I guess it kinda sucked, bit to be honest, I don't know that it wouldn't still have plowed into me if I wasn't clipped in. It was going to be going in that direction. Usually once I'm falling, my feet come out of the pedals one way or another. So I don't see them as being much more dangerous to me than mountain biking is in the first place.

Like some others, though, I'm not that concerned with what the OP, or anyone, ultimately chooses. I think it's worth having pedals I like, and having spent a little time with both systems, I think decent flats are a huge step up over the crappy resin ones that ship with a lot of new bikes. So is a decent clipless system. Since a lot of experienced riders have preferences to both sides, I try not to take a side where other people looking for a recommendation are concerned.

Except that Time ATACs are awesome  and cheap shoes suck.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I loathed crashing while cliped in. So glad those days are behind.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I hit a dog while clipped once and my only injury was a twisted ankle. One foot came out ok, the other didn't. I didn't even hit the ground, I stayed upright, but the way the bike was thrown obviously twisted my ankle.

That was on a cycle path but the principal is the same. If you're riding off road, especially at speed, things can get out of shape pretty quickly. You often don't have time to _think_ about getting your feet out never mind doing it.

That's balanced against the risk of your feet slipping off the pedals, a good way to cause a crash! In my opinion if you're riding properly with good pedals and shoes the balance is on the side of the flats. Only with good pedals though. Plastic pedals should be banned!


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## koreytm (Sep 7, 2014)

What about Mallet pedals? I've been thinking about getting these...then I can ride clipped in when I'm putting miles on the flat rail-trail, or I can ride flat when running errands in town or hitting trails off-road. They are dual sided, so you don't have to worry about that...

Best of both worlds?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

koreytm said:


> Best of both worlds?


No such thing. Dual-use pedals are compromised as both. I swap pedals over depending on what I'm doing. Takes literally a couple of minutes.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Try a pair before you spend money.

A lot of the time the mechanism sticks out above the plane of the platform. I think it has to, actually. So people report that they're not really that good with sneakers.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

*Here are some pretty good reasons to avoid clipped and clipless pedals.*


↵


> *National Sporting Goods Association*. Sports participation in 1998. New York: National Sporting Goods Association, NPD Research, 2000.



↵


> *Kronisch RL*, Pfeiffer RP. Mountain biking injuries. Sports Med2002;*32*:523-7.


 [CrossRef][Medline][Web of Science]
↵


> *Jeys LM*, Cribb G, Toms AD, _et al._ Mountain biking injuries in rural England. Br J Sports Med 2001;*35*:197-9.


 [Abstract/FREE Full text]
↵


> *Rivara FP*, Thompson DC, Thompson RS, _et al._ Injuries involving off road cycling. J Fam Pract 1997;*44*:481-5.


 [Medline][Web of Science]
↵


> *Kronisch RL*, Pfeiffer RP, Chow TK. Acute injuries in cross-country and downhill off-road bicycle racing. Med Sci Sports Exerc1996;*28*:1351-5.


 [Medline][Web of Science]
↵


> *Kronisch RL*, Chow TK, Simon LM, _et al._ Acute injuries in off-road bicycle racing. Am J Sports Med 1996;*24*:88-93.


 [Abstract/FREE Full text]
↵


> *Slootmans FC*, Biert J, de Waard JW, _et al._ Femoral neck fractures in bicyclists due to clipless pedals. (In Dutch.) Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd 1995;*139*:1141-3.


 [Medline]
I just realized most of you won't have subscriptions to the journals....tThere is a section in each that shows a multiplier of the severity of injuries due to clipless pedals, even in racers that are used to unclipping quickly and naturally. I would recommend flats over clipless simply because there is no good reason to take the added risk. And I didn't even pull the overwhelming research on the increase in risk to back injuries or soft tissue damage associated with clipped and clipless pedals.


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## koreytm (Sep 7, 2014)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Try a pair before you spend money.
> 
> A lot of the time the mechanism sticks out above the plane of the platform. I think it has to, actually. So people report that they're not really that good with sneakers.


Yeah, it's pretty obvious the mechanism sticks up. It seems like one of those things that's all personal preference...some people have said they ride around town in sneakers or flipflops and don't notice anything. Some people say that the Mallet DHs have enough grip that they haven't had a problem riding them as flats. One guy said he had to even turn the screw nubs in a little farther since they were gripping on his shoes when he tried to unclip.

Then you have the people saying the complete opposite. Some hate that they can feel the mechanism. One guy said his feet slid all over because of the mechanism (although he had the Mallet 1, which had no screws/grips on it), and you have other people say that Mallet (and Crank Brothers in general) is complete garbage and falls apart.

For me, I rode road bike for years, and the mtb I'm borrowing now has SPDs on it...I'm used to being clipped in. But I've never rode trail, single track, or DH...So I have no idea if I'll like flat or clipless better. Mallet DH seemed like the best option to allow me to clip in an ride on the road or the rail-trail, yet still let me go for a leisurely stroll with the wife in flip flops. As for rough terrain, I have no idea what to expect.


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Even on a leisurely stroll, I just clip in. You can get shoes that don't necessarily look like biking shoes now. Minus the one velcro strap on my current Shimano shoes, you would never know that they were cycling shoes. Not that big of a deal either. I ride a bike, so there will be times that I have some type of cycling attire on.

And, as mentioned above, a pedal swap only takes a couple of minutes if needed. Dual sport/sided pedals are a joke. Also, riding those Mallets in shoes other than cycling shoes will likely be uncomfortable and you run the risk of sliding right off the platform due to the mechanism sticking up and having the pedal spin right around for a shin bite. No thanks!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Phinias said:


> Here are some pretty good reasons to avoid clipped and clipless pedals.


While I'm not disagreeing that being attached to the bike is a risk, so are flats. Do you remember coming off because a foot slipped off the pedals? I can think of several accidents I've seen caused by exactly that. Just a month or so ago I had to run a friend to hospital because his foot slipped off the pedal when he landed after a small jump. He was scuffed up pretty bad. Had he been clipped the accident wouldn't have happened.

No right or wrong. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. You just have to try and figure out what will suit you best for the kind of riding you're doing.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I think it's interesting that these discussions so often turn into arguments about which is riskier.

If I thought clipless were a lot more dangerous, I wouldn't ride them. But I don't ride them because I think they're safer (I don't, I think it's a wash.) either.

There are two main events for me with a clipless system. I like to ride in a stiff shoe with a cycling last, fancy insole, and a shim under my forefoot. And I like to put my foot down on the pedal and be attached to it, in the same place, every time, and for as long as I want to be attached. That's where my decision comes from. I don't believe they make me faster, at least in any linear way, and if they give me one less thing to think about in tech sections, that's a side benefit. Though a pretty major one.

I think a lot of us go clipless too early. If you'd rather be clipped out in technical sections, own it. If you're pretty much not dabbing and you think you might like it better, try it and see.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> No right or wrong. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. You just have to try and figure out what will suit you best for the kind of riding you're doing.


If everyone would adopt this attitude there would finally be an end to all these silly "clipless vs. flats" arguments.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Being a newbie I didn't realize I was swatting a hornets nest this big.


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## koreytm (Sep 7, 2014)

Yeah, I'm using my buddy's shoes so I can be clipped in while I am borrowing his bike. (Again, haven't off-roaded yet) They basically look like hiking shoes, and it's nice to be able to walk around in them, unlike the road bike shoes that I'm used to. Those things were awful.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Funny enough, my next MTB shoes will put probably have a more road attitude. Though one thing I learned from a debacle this spring is that carbon is a bit much for me.


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

I just came back from the LBS with a set of Specialized Bennies Flats. I will let you know how they are.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Those look great. I almost got some recently.


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## RaleighMTB (Aug 25, 2014)

I will ride them this evening with my Merrells, and then hopefully again tomorrow with my 5.10 Freeriders (if they are delivered on time and fit).


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I looked at those, great pedals. You will notice a huge difference first in using those and then in adding the grippy 510's. Congrats!


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## jdiulus (Aug 11, 2014)

This was a very insightful thread that steered me away from purchasing clipless! Both of my stock (Wellgo) pedals cracked recently and were making a terrible clicking sound every time i pedaled. I had to make a quick decision and with the help of this thread i chose to just buy a cheap alloy pedal instead of a more expensive clipless pedal.

These are the pedals that i ended up purchasing:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YRU4NM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I think the Shimano Saints with a pair of 510 freerides would be the ultimate setup and i think that is the direction that i will go when the season starts next year. I just needed something fast and cheap to finish out the year. With that being said they actually seem to be decent pedals and offer quite a bit of grip with just regual tennis shoes. They do seem to make a little bit of creaking noise when I'm pedaling and so did my stock Wellgo's. Do the higher end pedals make this creaking noise? Just curious as it is a little annoying and it would be nice if there was a solution for that.

Anyhow, Good Thread!!


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

Did you grease them when you installed them?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Late to the party - I also picked up a pair of those Bennies a while back for my 26" park/DJ bike and been liking them. 

Far as clipless goes, for trail riding, I personally strongly prefer them. I avoid fire roads like the plague, and ride in New England; our trails tend to be bony. I've put in a couple hundred DH days on them too FWIW. I like flats for really muddy conditions DHing, and for any sort of jump/pumptrack/skatepark type riding of course, but after 20+ years of riding both in all sorts of situations, I'll take clipless any day on the trail, particularly for more technical and choppy stuff. YMMV of course.


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## gsa103 (Sep 1, 2014)

Mr Pig said:


> On a loose, steep climb for instance. If you lose traction and stop you need to get your foot down instantly. Then try getting moving again while trying to get clipped back in as well. I've tried both and I'm happy with flats off road. All I'm saying is that clipless does not work for everything.


This is both the argument for and against clipless. Clipless allows you to pull up and maintain a more even force through the entire pedaling circle. This makes the wheel less likely to slip since you're not getting torque spikes.

So while its less likely that you'll spin, its more difficult to recover. On steep technical sections, I've had better luck with clipless. Usually that's because putting a foot down is going to result in an moderately ugly fall clipped or not.

Granted, I'm more of a roadie so I'm comfortable cranking while clipped and my off-road technique is pretty mediocre.


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## jdiulus (Aug 11, 2014)

TenSpeed said:


> Did you grease them when you installed them?


I put a thin layer of Lithium Grease on the threads and then screwed them into the crank. Should I maybe take them off and load it up with grease?

Thanks


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

A thin layer is fine, on the other hand it's impossible to use too much because any excess will just get squeezed out.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

jdiulus said:


> I put a thin layer of Lithium Grease on the threads and then screwed them into the crank. Should I maybe take them off and load it up with grease?Thanks


No I can say that the neither the Saints nor the Atlas pedals make any sound... I wonder if it may be in your crank assembly as you have experienced it now in 3 pedal sets?


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## jdiulus (Aug 11, 2014)

Phinias said:


> No I can say that the neither the Saints nor the Atlas pedals make any sound... I wonder if it may be in your crank assembly as you have experienced it now in 3 pedal sets?


Yeah I was wondering if that might be the case as well. I actually just had my bike at my LBS for a quick look over (something they do within the first 60 days of purchase) and the drive side crank bolt had somehow managed to work itself extremely loose. He torqued it down to specs and said, there appeared to be no damage and that everything appeared to be solid.

There doesnt seem to be any play in the crank/bottom bracket and when i apply pressure with just my hands to the crank, i dont hear any noise. With that being said, i do hear a lot of creaking when I'm pedaling, and I am unable to tell if it's coming from the pedals themselves or the crank. With the pedals level, I can stand up and push down with all my weight and it doesnt make any noise but as soon as i start pedaling, i hear a creaking noise!

Any Suggestions???


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Man that is way past what limited knowledge and experience I have.... I have a habit of making the mechanic ride my bike they just worked on if I don't feel it is adjusted corectly etc... Have the LBS ride around the lot with you and figure out what the noise is. If it is the pedal no harm no foul, it will go away with the Saints when you upgrade.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I would take it back to the lbs and make them ride it. Creaks can come from almost anywhere but it sounds to me like this probably has something to do with the bottom bracket.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

I did see this on one of the reviews, may be worth a try before lugging your bike back to the shop....
"I know someone complained about the ball bearings making it have a rough feel but that's not the problem. All you have to do is take off the cap at the end, take off the first nut (15mm socket with extension bar while holding other side with 15mm box end wrench or pedal wrench), then take off the little washer inside there, then using a flat-blade screw driver hold the last nut inside and turn the threaded side of the pedal to loosen the last nut slightly (don't do it too much or the ball bearings will fall out). After you loosen the last nut reassemble everything making sure to tighten the first nut you took off real tight so the pedal doesn't fall apart. If its still spins roughly you didn't loosen the inner nut enough. Once you get it right it will spin incredibly well.

I actually took these completely apart and added 1 or two ball bearings (from old pedals) so that there was a total of 26 split between the two sides."


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

I ride these:
View attachment 922895


Time ATAC MX 4

In a pinch I unclip and keep pedaling.

I simply must be attached to the bike on four points (Hands and feet)
cannot Imagine platforms only anymore...

But then again I keep both wheels on the ground,,mostly


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

jdiulus said:


> Yeah I was wondering if that might be the case as well. I actually just had my bike at my LBS for a quick look over (something they do within the first 60 days of purchase) and the drive side crank bolt had somehow managed to work itself extremely loose. He torqued it down to specs and said, there appeared to be no damage and that everything appeared to be solid.
> 
> There doesnt seem to be any play in the crank/bottom bracket and when i apply pressure with just my hands to the crank, i dont hear any noise. With that being said, i do hear a lot of creaking when I'm pedaling, and I am unable to tell if it's coming from the pedals themselves or the crank. With the pedals level, I can stand up and push down with all my weight and it doesnt make any noise but as soon as i start pedaling, i hear a creaking noise!
> 
> Any Suggestions???


Grease the seatpost. Sounds funny, but try it.


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## nexttozen (Jul 15, 2014)

love flat pedals. run the dmr vaults with 5.10 freeriders. i'm no expert level rider but can bunny hop and climb in them. did 3000 ft and 15.3 miles on monday keeping up with an expert level rider who was running clipless.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Specialized just released some very nice flat pedals too fyi. They work and look great! Cost only $60 msrp and out preform the saints by a mile.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

These look interesting......Xpedo Spry Pedal - Reviews, Comparisons, Specs - Mountain Bike Flat Pedals - Vital MTB

Any thoughts?


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Here is what I decided on for my bike. Ordered a pair Thursday night.


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## hawks (Aug 18, 2014)

I tried clipless pedals for the first time today on a 20km ride on our local trails and I'm not sire I'm a fan. It was really muddy and the tires slipped and I kept feeling like I was going to tip over. Going to go back to my flats and try the clipless again when the trail is dry. 

Just don't seem to have the confidence with them. 

How long did it take those who love them to get used to riding them?


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## Boondock77 (Jun 16, 2014)

zzr600batesville said:


> Here is what I decided on for my bike. Ordered a pair Thursday night.
> View attachment 923256


Interesting.. Let us know how they are. $27 shipped on ebay
Xpedo Face Off XMX 13AC MX13 MTB Cycling Bike Aluminum CNC Pedal 9 16 V H9 | eBay


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## TenSpeed (Feb 14, 2012)

hawks said:


> I tried clipless pedals for the first time today on a 20km ride on our local trails and I'm not sire I'm a fan. It was really muddy and the tires slipped and I kept feeling like I was going to tip over. Going to go back to my flats and try the clipless again when the trail is dry.
> 
> Just don't seem to have the confidence with them.
> 
> How long did it take those who love them to get used to riding them?


It took me a few rides before I felt somewhat comfortable. There is a learning curve and muscle memory that needs to take place. I would definitely give it another shot if you can, even just riding around the neighborhood or your yard or whatever practicing and getting used to the feeling.


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## tobimaru (Aug 29, 2014)

My local trails have a lot of loose gravel, sand, etc so I end up needing a foot off pretty often, at least at my current level of riding. I think flats are for me but the factory pedals that came on my GT are plastic and the studs have pretty much all worn down after only a few weeks of riding. Definitely need to upgrade to metal studs/pedals.


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## jdiulus (Aug 11, 2014)

Phinias said:


> I did see this on one of the reviews, may be worth a try before lugging your bike back to the shop....
> "I know someone complained about the ball bearings making it have a rough feel but that's not the problem. All you have to do is take off the cap at the end, take off the first nut (15mm socket with extension bar while holding other side with 15mm box end wrench or pedal wrench), then take off the little washer inside there, then using a flat-blade screw driver hold the last nut inside and turn the threaded side of the pedal to loosen the last nut slightly (don't do it too much or the ball bearings will fall out). After you loosen the last nut reassemble everything making sure to tighten the first nut you took off real tight so the pedal doesn't fall apart. If its still spins roughly you didn't loosen the inner nut enough. Once you get it right it will spin incredibly well.
> 
> I actually took these completely apart and added 1 or two ball bearings (from old pedals) so that there was a total of 26 split between the two sides."


Thank you, I saw that posting in the Amazon reviews as well. I ended up taking the pedals off, added a little more grease to the threads and then screwed them back in. I think i just needed to tighten them a little more. I rode 10mi on Friday and then another 10 on Sunday and i didn't here a single noise coming from down there. I was relieved because i really didn't want to throw any more money at this bike this year!

For the guy that mentioned about greasing the seatpost, i had that issue already too. I had to tighten the crap out of the seatpost, because it was creaking.

Thanks for all the help!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

hawks said:


> How long did it take those who love them to get used to riding them?


Not that long to be honest but you'd be better practising on the road for a while first. Unclipping has to become something you automatically do when you need to put your foot down. It is never as fast a reaction as flats though, you can never get your foot down as fast as you can take it off a flat pedal. You will still get caught out.

A friend and I took our younger kids for a ride round one of the smaller islands off the West coast, ten flat miles for us, bit adventure for them. My friend's son hit the brakes for some daft reason and he bumped into the back of him. He was caught off guard, couldn't get his foot unclipped quickly enough and fell on his side. Hardly moving but he smacked his knee on the road and did damage to it. That was over a year ago and I don't know if that knee's right, I know he was still getting grief off it recently. He's been using clippless for years, all the time I've been riding with him which is more than ten. I've had similar instances myself, it just happens.

The point is that off road there are more things that can catch you out or stop you in your tracks. Being clipped increases the chances of you falling over when that happens.

It totally depends on what sort of trail you're riding. For easy forest trails and Land Rover tracks I'd happily use clippless but even then I don't really feel the need as good spiky pedals feel fine. Like I say, there are pros and cons to both so don't feel like a failure if you prefer flats. You're in good company.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> It is never as fast a reaction as flats though, you can never get your foot down as fast as you can take it off a flat pedal. You will still get caught out.


While I'm not saying this isn't the case for you, it's not the case for everyone. I find no difference in time required between the two, and am actually much more comfortable clipping out and putting a foot down quickly on clipless pedals than with many flats. Reason being - I don't have to worry about by shins being flaying by screw heads. One thing for sure - I've more people need to visit the hospital from riding flats than from riding clipless, with the outcome averaging between 4 to 10 stitches.

And again, my experience is mostly on New England singletrack, and also plenty of old-school fall-line techy DH trails. Though you may not have been able to master clipless pedals, many people do and end up preferring them.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> While I'm not saying this isn't the case for you, it's not the case for everyone. I find no difference in time required between the two, and am actually much more comfortable clipping out and putting a foot down quickly on clipless pedals than with many flats. Reason being - I don't have to worry about by shins being flaying by screw heads. One thing for sure - I've more people need to visit the hospital from riding flats than from riding clipless, with the outcome averaging between 4 to 10 stitches.
> 
> And again, my experience is mostly on New England singletrack, and also plenty of old-school fall-line techy DH trails. Though you may not have been able to master clipless pedals, many people do and end up preferring them.


Actually there is no way it can be the same amount of time. The difference may only be parts of a second, but adding an extra motion to another will always take longer. Your profficency with clippless does not make you immune to the laws of physics.

Second, if you look further up the post you will see plenty of actual medical studies that show injuries are made more severe when using clippless versus not. I will not discount your impressions that flats may cause a few stitches here or there, nor will i argue that flats prevent all serious injuries. The simple matter of fact is you are more likely (especially as a beginner) to hurt your self due to being attached to the bike than not being attached to the bike.

This is the beginner forum guys, no instructor I have talked to advocates the use of clipless or clips for a beginner. It develops bad habits and allows cheating when learning foundational moves like bunny hopping.

Yes clipless will allow you to go faster.... it will not allow you to become a better mountain biker.


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## A2rider (Aug 4, 2010)

Quite the interesting thread.
I would agree with one of the earlier posters than claimed that a lot of riders (consciously or not) probably move to clip less too soon. I'm sure the thinking is that they should do so to be "more like the experienced riders" out there. I know I probably did to some degree. Not that I am uncomfortable with my choice, as I find many benefits to having my feet solidly attached for the most part; but I can also see the attraction to being able to lift a foot off (no matter which side at any time) with no special movement or effort to get used to. Especially as I try and ride progressively harder and more technical trails.
I never really thought about platforms/510-type shoes before, but after reading this thread, I can't help but think I may purchase a pair of both and see what kind of experience it gives me. I can see both sides of this debate and like the fact that I can try them and choose whichever one fits my style of riding more.
Good stuff.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Phinias said:


> Actually there is no way it can be the same amount of time. The difference may only be parts of a second, but adding an extra motion to another will always take longer. Your profficency with clippless does not make you immune to the laws of physics.


There's no 'extra' motion, just different motions. With clipless, there is a heel swing; with flats, there is an unweighting and lifting of the foot. I swing faster than I lift. Combined with the smaller and less prone to slicing and dicing platform of clipless, I have less to think about when putting a foot down in a hurry. Seriously, I can put a foot down quicker and more confidently with clipless than I can with flats in a number of trail situations, no matter what you think your high school math book has to say on the subject. 

And those injuries I mentioned were not 'impressions'. Impressions don't bleed all over my car, or make kids cry just from witnessing them. Given that it sounds like most of your experience is second hand through conversations with 'instructors', while mine is 100% first-hand and based on decades of different types of riding, please, cut me a break with the over-analizing. Clipless might not work for every rider, but for many, including developing novices, and particularly those in places where the trails aren't overly technical, they most definitely have their merits. It's one of those things that boils completely down to individual tastes. I like flats for certain things too; I'd never advocate clipless for DJing or skatepark riding, but I also run plastic platforms for those types of riding, which are a lot less likely to open me up. So go ahead and give reasons why clipless do or don't work FOR YOU, but I would avoid making blanket statements based on second hand knowledge.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

A2rider said:


> I never really thought about platforms/510-type shoes before, but after reading this thread, I can't help but think I may purchase a pair of both and see what kind of experience it gives me. I can see both sides of this debate and like the fact that I can try them and choose whichever one fits my style of riding more.
> Good stuff.


If you don't mind the money, do it.

I think everybody should get some saddle time with both systems. There are things to learn using both, and they're universally applicable.


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## TrkyMfns (Aug 25, 2014)

New here. After bashing my shins numerous times, I decided to try the slipless route. I regret nothing. Yes, I have busted my a** numerous times by forgetting I'm clipped in lol. For me, it reminds me of coming to a stop with a manual transmission. Just an extra step, but for me the pros so far outweigh hurting my shins again. 

If anything, it has pushed me more on the technical sections. For instance, areas I normally would take a foot off to feel more comfortable, I have to conquer instead. Also, climbing uphill has gotten so much easier as before I was slipping off and banging my shins when the climb got tough and technical. FWIW, everytime I crashed, I necame unclipped, so that's a plus. So far, I love clipless, but I would recommend trying them both out. For me, going clipless actually ended up costing me less too.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

The disengagement is extra motion, twisting is added to lift and whatever combination of to the side and down you want to add. Twisting on clipless does not automatically clear the pedals so there is always extra movement as you can not just twist your foot and put your foot down through the pedal. 

My facts come from Instructors and medical journals. I again will say there is nothing wrong with clipless pedals. It is wrong to make a claim that that they are somehow safer than flats when all evidence and common sense, aside from the blood in your car and childrens tears, dictate otherwise. It is worse still to say it in a forum with beginners.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> I've more people need to visit the hospital from riding flats than from riding clipless, with the outcome averaging between 4 to 10 stitches.


You see more people get bigger injuries from flats... well I'd bet most people on clipless are not going big, and maybe you do, but not "most" people.

So I'd bet most likely the ratio of big injures you see correlates to the big risk they took on a big jump rather then simply a pedal type choice.

Also,
Not all flats have such sharp terrible pins. To cause those injuries.

My Deity Decoy pedals have big flat head pins more like a screw head then a point. To get them to break skin would be a truly epic landing.
They dig inbetween the tread on my 510s perfectly and become like a dovetail joint latch and they can actually hang on to my shoe on up strokes like a clipless would.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

One of the key points missed here. (Reputation Bonus)

Some clipless systems require a far greater trist to unlock. Ranging from 2-20 degrees of turn.

If your pedal only requires 3 degrees to unclip, then you can do it fast and possibly in time to catch a fall.

If your clips need more than 7 degrees of twist, then you will probably crash instead of getting a foot down in time.


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## A2rider (Aug 4, 2010)

AndrwSwitch said:


> If you don't mind the money, do it.
> 
> I think everybody should get some saddle time with both systems. There are things to learn using both, and they're universally applicable.


I am currently lucky enough to be of an age (i.e. old! LOL!) that indeed allows me to be able to purchase some and see what they are like; which I think I will try next season. I think you are completely right about value in both systems and stuff to learn either way.
My initial guess is the size of the pedal will be the hardest thing to get used to (I currently have CB Candy's); I imagine more pedal strikes are a given but I would have to see if it happened with enough regularity to be an issue. Though I would most definitely dig the shoes; look cool and seem very comfy!
I've definitely been given a new "thing" to think about on this for sure. Funny, my wife has just gotten into MB recently and I've always been a big believer in the whole clip pedal aspect - she has combo pedals on her ride now (she wanted to try clipped before fully committing) so I will be interested to see which she prefers as well!


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

There is a third option







...not that you have to go with Fyxation. There are plenty of ways to replicate this set up. I use Burro straps on Wellgo b030 pedals. Using a strap like this you give up some of the easy-off benefits of the flats, but in return you don't need to invest in specialized shoes (like 510s, which I agree make a huge difference on flats). The straps allow you to get away with a less grippy pedal. This set up, although it has its own learning curve, allows you to sidestep the whole clipless pedal issue. You get positive pedal retention, good power transfer (if you pick a nice big pedal), and light weight.

I forgot to mention - this solution is cheaper than the other two. By far.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Trail_Blazer said:


> You see more people get bigger injuries from flats... well I'd bet most people on clipless are not going big, and maybe you do, but not "most" people.
> 
> So I'd bet most likely the ratio of big injures you see correlates to the big risk they took on a big jump rather then simply a pedal type choice.
> 
> ...


Most people are not going big, regardless of pedal type. Most of the gashes I've seen are not from big crashes, where you end up getting tossed from the bike for the most part, but from simple pedal slips where people put their foot down fast and in the process, run the pedal up their shin or calf. Seen it happen tons of times; lots of blood from what is usually a very, very minor incident. Most of the guys I know that run aggressively pinned flats (which really seem to be the only type I find to work on the trail, at least when you run into things like wet and mud on a regular basis, like we do) opt to run full-wrap shin pads with them.

As your posts say (and as I also brought up), there are certain types of flats that aren't as nasty. As you also brought up, there are certain clipless pedals that disengage really quickly. Exactly the reasons no one can make any sort of 'one size fits all' statement between the two types.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Trail_Blazer said:


> So I'd bet most likely the ratio of big injures you see correlates to the big risk they took on a big jump rather then simply a pedal type choice


Very good point.



buddhak said:


> There is a third option


Power Grips etc are a very good solution but in terms of safety they are so similar to clippless that you have to regard them as the same.


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## buddhak (Jan 26, 2006)

Mr Pig said:


> Very good point.
> 
> Power Grips etc are a very good solution but in terms of safety they are so similar to clippless that you have to regard them as the same.


I'm sorry, but this is a gross misrepresentation. A casual inspection of the two pedal systems makes this obvious. I have been on flats, clip less, Powergrips (which are a distinctly different system), and Fyxation-style pedal straps. The straps are nothing like clipless pedals. They can't be dismissed like that. They are far more intuitive and can be set up loose or tight.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I did try the Powergrips before I started tried clipless (figured anything had to be better than clips and straps), but I could never get comfortable with them. A friend of mine really like them though. I think they're less adaptable to various styles of riding than are clipless or flats (at least IME).


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## Cooper2 (Sep 10, 2014)

I have to say you need a set of both. you always need a good set of platforms and get a nice set of clipless with some nice shoes. It only takes a minute to change them out with a pedal wrench. Depending on the ride you just change the pedals to suit. Ride On!!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> I did try the Powergrips but I could never get comfortable with them.


I like them as they let you ride with normal shoes.

They are like clippless in that they are harder to get your feet out of than flat pedals. I don't think they're significantly easier than clippless. Getting on can be harder as you need to flip the pedal round and it's easy to flatten the strap with your foot.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Well guys I got my new pedals in today and got them on. Took it out for the first ride with them and I like them. They have a ton more grip than the stockers. Now to just get it out on some single track!


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Pics or it never happened.


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## zzr600batesville (Sep 1, 2014)

Here they are.


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## BenReilly (Sep 10, 2014)

I needed an upgrade over my crappy stock pedals. After reading this thread and watching my brother struggling with his clip less, I got a set of azonic 420s and a pair of five tens(for under $80 might I add.) I really like the flats with the shoes. I may try clip less one day but till I get more comfortAble I'm going with flats.


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

Well I'm a newb that perhaps went to clipless too soon. I wanted some platforms with better grip, perhaps the little spikes. I mentioned this to a riding friend with lots of experience, no fear, a good strong rider. He said to just go ahead and get clipless now because you're going to end up with them anyway. I went with Tire's and Specialized shoes.

I've ridden on the road quite a bit with actual toe clips, so I'm a pretty good climber as a newbie mtb-er. I can tell right out of the gate, clipless is just sooo much better for climbing and the transfer of energy and utilization of all the leg muscles, like a really dramatic difference IMO. 
But then there is the slow-speed technical sections. Let's just say, there is a learning curve...














After 4 falls on my first trail ride, I noticed for the first time, "fear" entering into my ride. I felt the loss of confidence, tensing up, being extra cautious, trying not to fall again. The last miles went well and I felt I was sort of getting the hang of it. Then my well-experience friend got stopped in a creek crossing and couldn't get out of the clip! His fall was dramatic!
So I've seen enough to know, clipless is way more efficient in transferring energy to the pedals and just makes me a stronger rider, especially climbing. I just need to wear them enough to gain my confidence back, uhh, that is, before killing myself!

FWIW...


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Lookng Good!!!!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

And then there's that...


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## nexttozen (Jul 15, 2014)

WNCGoater said:


> Well I'm a newb that perhaps went to clipless too soon. I wanted some platforms with better grip, perhaps the little spikes. I mentioned this to a riding friend with lots of experience, no fear, a good strong rider. He said to just go ahead and get clipless now because you're going to end up with them anyway. I went with Tire's and Specialized shoes.
> 
> I've ridden on the road quite a bit with actual toe clips, so I'm a pretty good climber as a newbie mtb-er. I can tell right out of the gate, clipless is just sooo much better for climbing and the transfer of energy and utilization of all the leg muscles, like a really dramatic difference IMO.
> But then there is the slow-speed technical sections. Let's just say, there is a learning curve...
> ...


I kept up with an expert level rider riding clipless 29'er over 15 miles and 3000 ft gain and loss with my flat pedals and 30 lb bike. slipped pedals once when climbing due to improper technique. ride what you like but falling that much at my age is too much. never rode clipless pedals, prly never will.


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## mark! (Jun 1, 2012)

I say ride your own ride, don't make up your mind because so and so said clipless pedals are the spawn of Satan. Yeah, there's a learning curve, you may even fall and get a booboo, but you'll probably be ok. I just made the switch, get a QUALITY (not cheap-o) solid sole shoe, and I went with Shimano 540 pedals to start with. In the past 2 days I've put about 30 miles on the trail and haven't fallen or had any issues. You have to be aware of what you're doing, and it helps starting on a trail system you know, and that you can take it easy on for a few times to get clipping in and out down. I've stalled on one climb and was able to jump off the pedal without even thinking about it.

One thing that's helped, is to get in a routine of clipping in and out with the same foot each time. I've learned I put my right foot in first, and take my left foot out first, so when I need to get going again, my strong side is already clipped in and ready to go.


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

nexttozen said:


> I kept up with an expert level rider riding clipless 29'er over 15 miles and 3000 ft gain and loss with my flat pedals and 30 lb bike. slipped pedals once when climbing due to improper technique. ride what you like but falling that much at my age is too much. never rode clipless pedals, prly never will.


I understand. I'm two months from 54. It hurts worse and takes longer to heal. At the same time, I accept the risk of getting injured. There is significant risk involved in mtbking. I feel I'm more likely to get seriously injured in a number of ways over falling over from riding clipless pedals. I don't ever want to get into the mindset of "I'm too old to ___________ ". But if I do, I'll quit whatever it is.
I'm also not going biking and fearing I'm going to get hurt. If I do, I likely will.
I accept there is a learning curve. My brain is not yet trained to rotate out of the clips. I can tell they help me a LOT in transferring power to the bike. But after several more attempts, if I cannot get comfortable, then I too will revert back to flats and put the clipless pedals on my hybrid I road ride on.


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## A2rider (Aug 4, 2010)

WNCGoater said:


> I understand. I'm two months from 54. It hurts worse and takes longer to heal. At the same time, I accept the risk of getting injured. There is significant risk involved in mtbking. I feel I'm more likely to get seriously injured in a number of ways over falling over from riding clipless pedals. I don't ever want to get into the mindset of "I'm too old to ___________ ". But if I do, I'll quit whatever it is.
> I'm also not going biking and fearing I'm going to get hurt. If I do, I likely will.
> I accept there is a learning curve. My brain is not yet trained to rotate out of the clips. I can tell they help me a LOT in transferring power to the bike. But after several more attempts, if I cannot get comfortable, then I too will revert back to flats and put the clipless pedals on my hybrid I road ride on.


I'm in the same boat, more or less, as WNC. I am 52 and can attest to the hurt worse/heal longer scenario. I have been lucky to not have as serious a fall(s) as it looks from those pictures, though more than likely it's because I haven't ridden as tough a trail either. As I begin to get more and more advanced in my rides, it will be interesting to see if the clip less pedals continue to work or if I will be inclined to try the platform/flat combo more often. I still may get a set to try it out - if for no other reason than to make it easier to ride when I'm out with my wife/kids and know it will be more of a "casual" outing.
As I have already said - I like having the option, and being an "equipment guy", I love the technology and advancement in all areas!

Cheers!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Ride what you like as far as pedals go, but please...stop with the 'I'm too old to crash' crap. I'm sniffing 50 myself and crashing here and there is part of the game. Yeah, you don't heal as quickly (or sometimes not at all, if my wrists are any indicator), and I'm not saying to go and try to learn backflips over concrete or anything, but a little gravel rash like in the pic above is a pretty regular occurrence for just about everybody I know that rides regularly on trails. Wipe it off ,suck it up, roll on. Hell, I'm working on learning to make a turn over the coping at the skatepark and trying like hell to take my hop-180 to a hop-360; I crash every couple minutes while I'm at it. My dad is 70 and takes regular crashes like a champ too. 

This ain't shuffleboard we're playing here ya know...


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Ride what you like as far as pedals go, but please...stop with the 'I'm too old to crash' crap. I'm sniffing 50 myself and crashing here and there is part of the game. Yeah, you don't heal as quickly (or sometimes not at all, if my wrists are any indicator), and I'm not saying to go and try to learn backflips over concrete or anything, but a little gravel rash like in the pic above is a pretty regular occurrence for just about everybody I know that rides regularly on trails. Wipe it off ,suck it up, roll on. Hell, I'm working on learning to make a turn over the coping at the skatepark and trying like hell to take my hop-180 to a hop-360; I crash every couple minutes while I'm at it. My dad is 70 and takes regular crashes like a champ too.
> 
> This ain't shuffleboard we're playing here ya know...


Not sure who you're directing that to but did you read my post (#129) above?


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## mark! (Jun 1, 2012)

WNCGoater said:


> Not sure who you're directing that to but did you read my post (#129) above?


Refer to post 127.


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

A2rider said:


> I'm in the same boat, more or less, as WNC. I am 52 and can attest to the hurt worse/heal longer scenario. I have been lucky to not have as serious a fall(s) as it looks from those pictures, though more than likely it's because I haven't ridden as tough a trail either.
> Cheers!


Just to clarify, it wasn't really that serious, just the worst place to fall. Of all the places, mud, dirt, sand, I just HAD to fall coming around a rocky (and somewhat technical for me) switchback, right on top of rocks and gravel. Sliding to a stop under the bike on top of gravel is no fun. But it ain't gonna kill you either! All just part of the game. **NO WHINING!** LOL!

Anyway, as I stated, I'm willing to take a few falls while getting the hang of the clipless pedals and just accept that's part of the process as I believe the benefits ultimately are worth the initial pain from minor injuries. 
If my feeble brain cannot get trained to intuitively unclip, and I keep beating myself up, I can always get some platforms with some nice shin shredding spikes!


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

mark! said:


> Refer to post 127.


Got it. My bad.


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## A2rider (Aug 4, 2010)

WNCGoater said:


> Just to clarify, it wasn't really that serious, just the worst place to fall. Of all the places, mud, dirt, sand, I just HAD to fall coming around a rocky (and somewhat technical for me) switchback, right on top of rocks and gravel. Sliding to a stop under the bike on top of gravel is no fun. But it ain't gonna kill you either! All just part of the game. **NO WHINING!** LOL!
> 
> Anyway, as I stated, I'm willing to take a few falls while getting the hang of the clipless pedals and just accept that's part of the process as I believe the benefits ultimately are worth the initial pain from minor injuries.
> If my feeble brain cannot get trained to intuitively unclip, and I keep beating myself up, I can always get some platforms with some nice shin shredding spikes!


I hear ya - Murphy's law and all that about where one always ends up falling! I think anyone would be silly to think they would do much of ANY kind of mountain biking and not expect the occasional mishap, absolutely. This whole thread being about pedals, clipped or not, simply focuses on how/when one might go about mitigating said mishaps and their preference to the style of riding they prefer.
I purchased a pair of Freerider Elelements and RaceFace Atlas platforms last night - I will certainly give that combo a test this coming weekend and see how they feel/perform vs. my CB Candy's. It's all about being as comfortable with your ride as possible - who know I may never go back!
And your right - the shin-shredding pins I'm sure will bite me from time to time anyway - no hiding from the price to play no matter which route you go!

Cheers!


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

To update, I rode 11 1/2 miles yesterday, including some of the trails I rode last week. I successfully negotiated the switchback where I fell.

On the one hand, I felt more confident riding this outing with the clipless pedals. On the other hand, there were a couple of spot I just got off and walked that I would have tried had I not been wearing clipless...just didn't have the confidence I could make it and bail out without falling.
So while my confidence while wearing the clipless pedals is up, my confidence overall is somewhat down. I'll keep plugging along.

There is no doubt in my mind however, that the clipless pedals will increase efficiency and transfer of power to the drivetrain.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

WNCGoater said:


> There is no doubt in my mind however, that the clipless pedals will increase efficiency and transfer of power to the drivetrain.


So would welding your shoe clips to the pedal shaft.


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## WNCGoater (Aug 21, 2014)

Trail_Blazer said:


> So would welding your shoe clips to the pedal shaft.


Sorry but I'm not sure what you mean.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Trail_Blazer said:


> So would welding your shoe clips to the pedal shaft.


So would pinning the pedal shaft into your ankle bone.
The debate rages on.
I still waver. Lately I've been going mostly open, esp after having ridden the majority of our Whistler trip open.
Came to see that riding clipless didn't seem to confer as much pedaling efficiency as I'd come to think. Clipless does force your foot into a more efficient position, with open pedals there is a tendancy to place the foot more toward the center instead of having the ball of foot over the axle. My clipless shoes are high zoot carbon so the sole is stiff and light, but I did our 5 hour adventure day in opens and didn't feel a lack. Clipless you can also run the saddle lower since the distance from bottom of foot to the axle is a fair amount less.
For exit speed, there simply is no way clipless can match opens, unless technology develops where it senses impending danger and forceably ejects your foot out of the clips. Being secure to pedals, I haven't really had a problem with either. I've come off/out of both types unintentionally. If the trail is so rough that my feet are flying off open pedals, I'm pretty sure I'd be bailing at that point and wouldn't want to be attached to the bike! I did have one case of where toe of shoe on open pedal hit side embankment of trail and caused some drama. If I were on clipless it was likely that it wouldn't have happened as the shoe is lower profile and toe doesn't stick out and to side as much.
Anyway, it's a tough call. In the end, try both and decide for yourself.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

A2rider said:


> ...a pair of Freerider Elelements and RaceFace Atlas platforms last night ...
> 
> My exact setup, I love the combo and those Atlas pedals work as good as they look....


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

I ordered a pair of 510 Freerider last night, dang you all! ;0) Only problem is that my son and I are both size9 so it remains to be seen who ends up getting them...


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## A2rider (Aug 4, 2010)

That's cool Phinias; nice to know someone is running that same combination and is pleased with them! I hadn't seen too much written review-wise on the Atlas pedals, but they seemed really nice, so I'm encouraged. Sadly, the wife and another couple we know rode in a VERY crowded charity run yesterday (The Tour de Troit in Detroit, MI) and I had hoped to have them on my bike for it given the very congested route; would have been nice to test out how easy it was to get off the pedals vs. my clip less, but even putting rush delivery on it, they failed to make it by Friday!
Will certainly chime in on them once they get here tomorrow and I can have a few rides on 'em!


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## socaltrailrider (Jul 4, 2007)

I've been riding Shimano SPD's for as long as I can remember. Last week I decided to try out some flats, so I picked up a pair of 5-10's and HT Components AE03 pedals. after three rides, I think I am converted. The shoes stick really well to the pedal. I actually cleaned a climb that I have normally had to stop during. The real benefit to me is in the technical stuff, specially downhill. They felt and worked great. I might toss on the SPD's if I know I'm going on a long XC ride, but for everyday trail use, I think I'm going to stick with the flats.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

A2rider let me know what you think, I will have to live vicariously through everyone here for the rest of the season. Just had surgery repairing 3 ligaments and 1 tendon in my right hand.... had a minor off during a group ride and I think I caught my pinkie on either the brake lever (less likely) or a tree branch (more likely). Sad part was barely bugging me, even been on multiple long rides, but it would start to ache so wife bullied me into getting it checked out. Meh.... will just have to look forward to next year and enjoy the ski season.


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## JHart94949 (Dec 31, 2012)

Mr Pig said:


> I guess it depends on what you ride and how. Flats are a poor substitute for being attached to the pedals when riding on the road or on relatively flat trails but when things get sketchy I personally do_ not_ want to have my feet nailed to the bike.
> 
> On a loose, steep climb for instance. If you lose traction and stop you need to get your foot down instantly. Then try getting moving again while trying to get clipped back in as well. I've tried both and I'm happy with flats off road. All I'm saying is that clipless does not work for everything.


+1

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## A2rider (Aug 4, 2010)

Phinias said:


> A2rider let me know what you think, I will have to live vicariously through everyone here for the rest of the season. Just had surgery repairing 3 ligaments and 1 tendon in my right hand.... had a minor off during a group ride and I think I caught my pinkie on either the brake lever (less likely) or a tree branch (more likely). Sad part was barely bugging me, even been on multiple long rides, but it would start to ache so wife bullied me into getting it checked out. Meh.... will just have to look forward to next year and enjoy the ski season.


That's a shame, Phinias; hope you heal up well (and soon!)
Well, I put the pedals on and just took a short XC-type ride with them and the 5.10's. A very different feeling for sure. And as a lot of folks have said, probably not the best kind of riding for them. I really missed being "locked into" the bike. I will continue to give them riding time, especially on the trails where it seems will be much more of a useful test.
I found myself not really moving my feet on them too much (subconsciously thinking they were locked in I'm sure) which was interesting. I'll keep trying 'em though - nice to have options!


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