# 2 broken 888's and a bent one at Rampage.



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Dark day for marzocchi it would seem. Just when people were focusing on the cool looking stanchions too! Thoughts?


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)




----------



## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)




----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Why shun him? It happened. If he would have had 2 more mm's per stanchion on that hip jump, maybe he would have landed it. The only other guy to land that jump finished 2nd...


----------



## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

So I guess you better get rid of your marzocchi before you run that course yourself.......


----------



## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

gee must have been on a fox....

on a side note, anyone see what brand seat that was that broke off....id hate for that to happen to me on my local trails.......


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

blue109 said:


> gee must have been on a fox....
> 
> on a side note, anyone see what brand seat that was that broke off....id hate for that to happen to me on my local trails.......


I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have 60' gaps on your local trails.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Yeah man it's hard to say that other forks are stronger WHEN THEY DIDN'T BREAK ON THE EXACT SAME JUMP. If it were 1, yeah bad luck. 2 in the same day, ok this is rampage but thats a little alarming. The 3rd getting bent beyond use...looks like there might be an issue


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Would I be correct in guessing the 2 calling "troll" are sporting 888's on their rides?


----------



## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

ccspecialized said:


> If he would have had 2 more mm's per stanchion on that hip jump, maybe he would have landed it. The only other guy to land that jump finished 2nd...


Implying the broken fork caused the crash and not the other way around. It sure looked to me like he got his bars turned hard on landing, which in turn broke the fork. If that's the case but the fork hadn't broken, he still would have gone over the bars. But that's just my perspective, I'm sure the video will be analyzed to death as to whether the fork cost him that run


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Apparently you guys don't know what a troll is. Also, people seem to think that it's some how not logical to believe that a fork isn't as strong as others when 3 of them fail at a single event. I will never understand you guys. You're either marzocchi fan boys or just completely incapable of drawing logical conclusions.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Yeahp, it's proven. 2010 Zochi's suck. Sell all your 2010 zoch's! Cheap too, cause they break!

Come to think of it, using the same logic, Zochi's can't win races either. 

*Waits at classifieds 

On a lighter note, Goldman and Sorge survived rampage on single crowns. All hail! I should start building some 60ft drops too. But it's kinda strange how logically the 66 is stronger than the 888.


----------



## LaggDawg (Jan 9, 2005)

Troll Fed


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Quarashi said:


> Yeahp, it's proven. 2010 Zochi's suck. Sell all your 2010 zoch's! Cheap too, cause they break!
> 
> Come to think of it, using the same logic, Zochi's can't win races either.
> 
> ...


Not sure how you're finding the logic in that, but Robbie B. was sporting a single crown too.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

LaggDawg said:


> Troll Fed


 Nom Nom 3 of them broke, that's 3 more than sram and fox's offerings :thumbsup:


----------



## Trail-Shredder (Mar 13, 2010)

Right, because...all that are on this forum ride at the level as those that did the Rampage on a regular basis and are running the prototypes that the SPONSORED riders ride...so therefore Marz. can take these forks that didn't hold up and fix the issues before you can get your hands on a 2011 model. Wow...I have a great idea...go ride your bike and STFU. And no I don't ride a zoke. But still have always liked them.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> Nom Nom 3 of them broke, that's 3 more than sram and fox's offerings :thumbsup:


I didn't know it was possible to have more broken forks than sram has had. 

MOAR TROLL FEED!


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

Trail-Shredder said:


> Right, because...all that are on this forum ride at the level as those that did the Rampage on a regular basis and are running the prototypes that the SPONSORED riders ride...so therefore Marz. can take these forks that didn't hold up and fix the issues before you can get your hands on a 2011 model. Wow...I have a great idea...go ride your bike and STFU. And no I don't ride a zoke. But still have always liked them.


You really should stop liking them, apparently they like blowing up and killing you right in the middle of your nice flat ride around your neighborhood...


----------



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Moosey said:


> You really should stop liking them, apparently they like blowing up and killing you right in the middle of your nice flat ride around your neighborhood...


No silly moose thats the crampons and its a tree stump!!! :thumbsup:


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

C S said:


> Implying the broken fork caused the crash and not the other way around. It sure looked to me like he got his bars turned hard on landing, which in turn broke the fork. If that's the case but the fork hadn't broken, he still would have gone over the bars. But that's just my perspective, I'm sure the video will be analyzed to death as to whether the fork cost him that run


Agreed - he did NOT put that transfer down the way Gee did. He slammed into that landing as hard as...Gee was smooth as butter.

Not getting into any broken stuff debates - this is Rampage, some dudes are gonna get their lines a bit wrong, and the price to pay for that at this event is exponentially higher than on anything us mortals even consider hitting.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

bullcrew said:


> No silly moose thats the crampons and its a tree stump!!! :thumbsup:


Bahhh let the crampons go! that threads been going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and did i mention thats its been going on and on?

Hahahaha still made me chuckle though :thumbsup:


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Moosey said:


> Bahhh let the crampons go! that threads been going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and did i mention thats its been going on and on?
> 
> Hahahaha still made me chuckle though :thumbsup:


Oh god now someone's going to go bump that thread.

I should make a dramatic reconstruction of that thread, need crampons!


----------



## bullcrew (Jan 2, 2005)

Moosey said:


> Bahhh let the crampons go! that threads been going on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and did i mention thats its been going on and on?
> 
> Hahahaha still made me chuckle though :thumbsup:


Still tastes like chicken, long island long legged suckers at that!!!!

That whole thing got so blown out and funny, I finally unsubscribed so my email quit having a zillion notices in it... Had some serious laughs, still checking it out though...


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Trail-Shredder said:


> Are running the prototypes that the SPONSORED riders ride...so therefore Marz. can take these forks that didn't hold up and fix the issues before you can get your hands on a 2011 model.


The chassis on those forks is identical to a production 2010 888 EVO Ti, except for the stanchion coating. Can't speak with certainty for the internals but I don't know of anyone who's riding anything besides production EVO Ti internals, besides me and a couple other guys with air carts in ours.

I'm not concerned with those failures because after a crash that hard I'd expect to have broken some parts. They're designed to handle more normal crashes and even landing huge jumps, but nothing short of a Monster T can be expected to handle a wreck like that.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Trail-Shredder said:


> Wow...I have a great idea...go ride your bike and STFU.


I tore my ACL so I can't. I have to resort to spending all my time on the forums trying to ruin other peoples days


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Lolol, mtbr=the new pinkbike

pinkbike=the place where Interbike coverage breaks first.


----------



## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

whodaphuck said:


> I wouldn't worry too much about it unless you have 60' gaps on your local trails.


/sarcasm


----------



## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

stupid thread. stop being retarded.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

3 forks broke at rampage? amazing! those guys werent even going that big. dont buy marzocchi!


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

b-kul said:


> 3 forks broke at rampage? amazing! those guys werent even going that big. dont buy marzocchi!


I don't understand how you can be so naive. 3 forks, of the same brand, what looks to be the model broke in 1 day. It is a competition where people are going bigger than ever, but the other companies didn't have their forks snap in half when their riders crashed. But of course it's just that marzocchi riders go biggest, so there isn't anything to worry about. :madman:


----------



## retro83 (Sep 15, 2008)

Anyone got any pics/vids of the crashes? Watched the stream but it kept cutting out


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

/mtbr-fanboi

Marzocchi is back and they have new colors to prove it!


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

*More importantly*



retro83 said:


> Anyone got any pics/vids of the crashes? Watched the stream but it kept cutting out


w/ the audio to go with it. I've never seen someone bust it like that, must sound awesome.

On another note, announcer kept saying it was the bike that couldn't handle it, never said anything about the fork. I saw that blue knolly & rs up for round 2.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

this thread is classic....the true trolls are the people CALLING others trolls....here troll, here boy...


either way, I'll never own a set of 888s again......Zocchis rep was already on the cutting board, this definitely aint gonna help. 
correct me if i'm wrong, but i have yet to see a pic of a broken 40.....plenty of snapped boxxers and now 888s....


----------



## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

We should really bring in Motocross forks into this conversation and how they never break compared to DH forks. 

Ready, set Debate!


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> this thread is classic....the true trolls are the people CALLING others trolls....here troll, here boy...
> 
> either way, I'll never own a set of 888s again......Zocchis rep was already on the cutting board, this definitely aint gonna help.
> correct me if i'm wrong, but i have yet to see a pic of a broken 40.....plenty of snapped boxxers and now 888s....


The 40 has problems with stanchion longevity, broken springs, and bent damper rods and blown damper caps.


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Funny how you guys think that it's ok for bike parts to be unreliable and break at a competition like rampage. "As long as the pros are the ones breaking them, it doesn't matter because none of us go that big.". The problem with that argument is that the manufacturer is avidly claiming that these forks are specifically designed for the world class riders that use them, they never say, "If you're a noob, you're going to love these $1600 forks! But if you're a pro, watch out, they might break.". 

Another thing to consider is that you don't have to go rampage big to create that type of force. The speed is what is creating the force. They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air. I would be willing to bet money that just about every DH racer on these forums is getting close to that kind of speed and some are probably going faster at times. Is that a risk you're willing to take? Wrecking is a part of riding but wrecking because of faulty equipment is something that simply should not happen.

Oh and for the record I am currently riding '07 super t's but I am going to get some brand new forks real soon. I was actually planning on getting some '10 888's because of an amazing deal I came across, but I honestly don't think I will now. Of course I'm not going rampage big but I do not believe it would be very smart to buy a product that was notorious for terrible quality post 2007, then recently had a showing like rampage. Call me crazy but I do not believe that Marzocchi would be the wisest choice at this point.


----------



## Pwshadow (Sep 5, 2010)

As a marzocchi fan this is really dissapointing. I am on a 2007 888 rc2x and was hoping there new stuff was as nice as it looks so i could upgrade in a year or two. But, now i think im just gonna keep having 2007 rebuilt.


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

...until zoke (inevitably) stops supporting those older products.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> The 40 has problems with stanchion longevity, broken springs, and bent damper rods and blown damper caps.


interesting.......pics please......?


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Can you google?

Blown damper caps and bent rods typically occur when the damper hasn't been properly bled or the cap unscrews and allows some fluid out, or a seal blows and results in the same.

You can get that info direct from Fox, btw. No pics required there.


----------



## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Archi-Magus said:


> They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air. I would be willing to bet money that just about every DH racer on these forums is getting close to that kind of speed and some are probably going faster at times. Is that a risk you're willing to take? Wrecking is a part of riding but wrecking because of faulty equipment is something that simply should not happen.


Wow, just wow. You obviously have no concept of what real riding entails. Hitting a 70ft jump at 20mph? Just....wow.


----------



## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> Dark day for marzocchi it would seem. Just when people were focusing on the cool looking stanchions too! Thoughts?


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> Can you google?
> 
> Blown damper caps and bent rods typically occur when the damper hasn't been properly bled or the cap unscrews and allows some fluid out, or a seal blows and results in the same.
> 
> You can get that info direct from Fox, btw. No pics required there.


google? whats that?

I think the real question is whether you can understand statistics???? 
lets just use your 'friend' (google) here to calculate some....

step 1- google search on broken fox 40s = not too many results, a few sure, but hardly enough to consider it a manufacturing flaw, etc.

step 2- google search on broken Zochi 888's.....= yikes!


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Yes, google's hit count is the exact measure of problems, since every one of them is registered on google and an exact reflection of the number of real life cases.

So basically, in your view, real life is dependent on the internet.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> So basically, in your view, real life is dependent on the internet.


:blush:

O M G ......you mean everything on the internet isnt true???? my life is ruined, whatever shall I do.......?

I think we both know what I meant by my 'example'...


----------



## colin1 (Jan 6, 2009)

Archi-Magus said:


> Funny how you guys think that it's ok for bike parts to be unreliable and break at a competition like rampage.


I feel you, dude - I had an aluminum BMX cruiser that I never did anything big on, but did about 1 million bunny hops around town, and then one day, BOOM! Whole thing broke in half - down tube and top tub, yikes!


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Well, I know that you're using an internet tactic because you think I'm a zoke fan, which I am not anymore, despite having several on hand and currently riding fox. So you think you need to defend fox by slagging zoke, since you don't know that I'm not a zoke fan.

Awesome. Pinkbike is upon us!


----------



## Buoyen (Aug 14, 2006)

Looks like the guy who broke his stanctions on the gap Gee cleared, also tacoed his front wheel in the same hit.. I think it was a pretty hard crash and I don't think he really would blame Marzocchi for it


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> Well, I know that you're using an internet tactic because you think I'm a zoke fan, which I am not anymore, despite having several on hand and currently riding fox. So you think you need to defend fox by slagging zoke, since you don't know that I'm not a zoke fan.
> 
> Awesome. Pinkbike is upon us!


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Wow, just wow. You obviously have no concept of what real riding entails. Hitting a 70ft jump at 20mph? Just....wow.


Really? How fast do you think they hit the icon sender? That's a 70 ft. jump (50 ft out and 50 ft down, do the math) and they are barely moving at all. You can watch and clearly see that they are going far less than 20 mph. "But that's a step down!", yeah no ****, so is everything at rampage. Oh and the only 70 ft jump there is the oakley sender, everything else is smaller. The jump you're talking about is probably closer to 50.

It would certainly appear that one of us has no concept of what real riding is when they believe that you can't clear 70 ft off of a step down doing 20 mph...

Oh and by the way I regularly clear 100 ft on my dirt bike. You really don't want to compare "real riding" with me peddle biker, I promise you.

Oh and I just noticed that you're selling marzocchis, sorry for speaking factually about your product bro. No wonder you're defending them.


----------



## newskoolbiker (Oct 17, 2005)

Romo wrecked on that same transfer and his Dorado is still running smooth. So is Kinrade's, and he landed hard enough to blow his leg up.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

ccspecialized said:


> I don't understand how you can be so naive. 3 forks, of the same brand, what looks to be the model broke in 1 day. It is a competition where people are going bigger than ever, but the other companies didn't have their forks snap in half when their riders crashed. But of course it's just that marzocchi riders go biggest, so there isn't anything to worry about. :madman:


unless all other competors forks were riden, abused, and crashed the same way by riders of similar stature and only the marzocchi broke your arguement means nothing.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

Buoyen said:


> Looks like the guy who broke his stanctions on the gap Gee cleared, also tacoed his front wheel in the same hit.. I think it was a pretty hard crash and I don't think he really would blame Marzocchi for it


So based on the way this thread is going im going to say this

If he tacoed his front wheel, should everone stop buying what ever wheelset he was using, i mean, THEY BREAK! OH NO! im going to find out what wheelset he was running, and NEVER EVER EVER buy a wheelset from that company again. EVER. they had a tacoed wheel, the whole company fails at life and sucks ass, lets bomb their factory so no more of their Taco-able wheels get out...

Really a few forks snapped. i dont know bout yall but im probably never going to hit that gap that the guy snapped his stantions on, so i may just get me a sexy green 2011 888.

This is getting way out of hand.


----------



## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

newskoolbiker said:


> Romo wrecked on that same transfer and his Dorado is still running smooth. So is Kinrade's, and he landed hard enough to blow his leg up.


Yep you know that because you, Romo, and Kinrade are all hanging out drinking beers right? I fell and my fork is ok so hooray Fox, Marzocchi, Rockshox as I am the undisputed god of mountain biking. Screw you guys I'm going for a ride


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Moosey said:


> So based on the way this thread is going im going to say this
> 
> If he tacoed his front wheel, should everone stop buying what ever wheelset he was using, i mean, THEY BREAK! OH NO! im going to find out what wheelset he was running, and NEVER EVER EVER buy a wheelset from that company again. EVER. they had a tacoed wheel, the whole company fails at life and sucks ass, lets bomb their factory so no more of their Taco-able wheels get out...
> 
> ...


If three other wheels of the exact same brand and model folded just the same as the one you're talking about, I would say that they weren't as durable as the other wheels at the competition. Is that really so far fetched?

"It would appear that pinkbike is upon us." Yeah, tell me about it. I start a thread with serious, logical, and deductive discussion in mind and all I get is kids posting random pictures and flinging insults.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

...


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

i'll fling something at ya.......but it aint an insult, promise you that.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

moosey is becoming a voice of reason. god help us all.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Were any crashes caused by fork failures or were the forks damaged in the crash? The ones I saw were pretty gnarly crashes that I'd expect to break a few parts and cause some pain. I'd expect top DH parts to handle all the riding, jumping, and even cased landing that can be ridden out of at Rampage but I'm not surprised to see broken wheels, forks, frames, ect resulting from those kind of crashes.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

whodaphuck said:


> Would I be correct in guessing the 2 calling "troll" are sporting 888's on their rides?


Incorrect sir.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> Apparently you guys don't know what a troll is. Also, people seem to think that it's some how not logical to believe that a fork isn't as strong as others when 3 of them fail at a single event. I will never understand you guys. You're either marzocchi fan boys or just completely incapable of drawing logical conclusions.


Lol.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> Really? How fast do you think they hit the icon sender? That's a 70 ft. jump (50 ft out and 50 ft down, do the math) and they are barely moving at all. You can watch and clearly see that they are going far less than 20 mph. "But that's a step down!", yeah no ****, so is everything at rampage. Oh and the only 70 ft jump there is the oakley sender, everything else is smaller. The jump you're talking about is probably closer to 50.
> 
> It would certainly appear that one of us has no concept of what real riding is when they believe that you can't clear 70 ft off of a step down doing 20 mph...
> 
> ...


Guess you shouldn't run 888's on your dirt bike then.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think any of those Zoche's failed under normal forces. Remember that girl on a Trek making spaghetti of her Boxxer on that tiny jump? Yeah, that can happen to any fork if you land wrong.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Archi-Magus said:


> Funny how you guys think that it's ok for bike parts to be unreliable and break at a competition like rampage. "As long as the pros are the ones breaking them, it doesn't matter because none of us go that big.". The problem with that argument is that the manufacturer is avidly claiming that these forks are specifically designed for the world class riders that use them, they never say, "If you're a noob, you're going to love these $1600 forks! But if you're a pro, watch out, they might break.".


any fork hitting the way they did would collapse...period...any fork....


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Quarashi said:


> Remember that girl on a Trek making spaghetti of her Boxxer on that tiny jump?


No. Video?


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Archi-Magus said:


> Another thing to consider is that you don't have to go rampage big to create that type of force. The speed is what is creating the force. They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air. I would be willing to bet money that just about every DH racer on these forums is getting close to that kind of speed and some are probably going faster at times. Is that a risk you're willing to take? Wrecking is a part of riding but wrecking because of faulty equipment is something that simply should not happen.


the right tool for the job......you don't ride the lightest fork for the event...in racing yeah....they shouldn't have been on EVO Ti's they should have been riding RC3 EVO

Further more......DH racers never would deliver that force,....a gap of about 40 to 50 feet with a verticle drop of 30 to 40....


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Anyway... I want pics of the broken forks!


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Taco-ing a wheel, bending a damper shaft are completely different than snapping your fork in half at the stanchions. I can't honestly see how, regardless of owning, liking, hating whatever you feel towards marzocchi, noticing that snapping a fork in half is a big f*cking deal comparatively. Gee is roughly the same size, hit roughly the same gap and his **** didn't snap under him. The green commencal that cartwheeled down the hill looked pretty in tact. A hell of a lot more intact since the fork wasn't in 2 pieces. Lacondeguy's crash wasn't the biggest wreck of the day, he bent his fork. Kyle straight's stem broke instead of his fork legs. 

I pray that you (those who can't see that there is an obvious design flaw) don't deal with anything that might fail and cause harm to anyone. If you do, go back to wherever you got your engineering degree and slap your strengths professor in the face, because they taught you wrong.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

yeah this is smooth


----------



## xcoffmanx (Jun 28, 2009)

junktrunk said:


> Can you google?
> 
> Blown damper caps and bent rods typically occur when the damper hasn't been properly bled or the cap unscrews and allows some fluid out, or a seal blows and results in the same.
> 
> You can get that info direct from Fox, btw. No pics required there.


*Confused* You stated that the 40's have problems but these problems are not exactly related to a new fork out of the factory. This issues that are stated are related to rebuilds. So you are actually saying the 40's dont have problems unless rebuilt improperly?

-Mike


----------



## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

b-kul said:


> moosey is becoming a voice of reason. god help us all.


I called it :thumbsup:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=655271

Post #39


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

ccspecialized said:


> Gee is roughly the same size, hit roughly the same gap and his **** didn't snap under him.


that statement roughly means nothing.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

b-kul said:


> moosey is becoming a voice of reason. god help us all.


Is that good or bad for me? =\


----------



## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

I didn't see the crash or the forks break, but I do know this: there is video (and audio) about how gee built a different line for that wallride. The run in that was used by romo (and whoever else broke their fork on that) sends you AT the wall, and it was a total "hang on and hope" jump. Gee's line came at it from a better angle, and thats why it worked and looked smooth. Crashing really really hard and twisting the bars sideways is bound to break some parts.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

Moosey said:


> Is that good or bad for me? =\


compliment for you, what it means for the rest of mtbr im not sure...


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

b-kul said:


> compliment for you, what it means for the rest of mtbr im not sure...


Hahahaha thanks man :thumbsup:


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

William42 said:


> I didn't see the crash or the forks break, but I do know this: there is video (and audio) about how gee built a different line for that wallride. The run in that was used by romo (and whoever else broke their fork on that) sends you AT the wall, and it was a total "hang on and hope" jump. Gee's line came at it from a better angle, and thats why it worked and looked smooth. Crashing really really hard and twisting the bars sideways is bound to break some parts.


Gee took a more inside line that naturally set you up for the wall more...the iother guys hit almost strait on...I was next to the edge where romo hit...and the sound was awful...


----------



## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Aw man, I just wasted 15 minutes of my life reading this crap. Now another 2 writing a response that should be unecessary. I always thought breaking parts in a crash was normal. Now I am going to either have to change sports or ride like a granny. Surely we cant be breaking parts now, hell thats inconceivable. Definatley going to have to skip that 70 footer casue it will definatley brake my fork and taco my wheel - guaranteed.


----------



## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> The speed is what is creating the force. They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air.


Somebody didn't pass physics!


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

lets see....60 foot gap and come up short and stanctions break hmmmm..any fork breaks

look at the vid

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Red-Bull-Rampage-Finals-Video-2010.html


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

Archi-Magus said:


> Funny how you guys think that it's ok for bike parts to be unreliable and break at a competition like rampage. "As long as the pros are the ones breaking them, it doesn't matter because none of us go that big.". The problem with that argument is that the manufacturer is avidly claiming that these forks are specifically designed for the world class riders that use them, they never say, "If you're a noob, you're going to love these $1600 forks! But if you're a pro, watch out, they might break.".
> 
> Another thing to consider is that you don't have to go rampage big to create that type of force. The speed is what is creating the force. They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air. I would be willing to bet money that just about every DH racer on these forums is getting close to that kind of speed and some are probably going faster at times. Is that a risk you're willing to take? Wrecking is a part of riding but wrecking because of faulty equipment is something that simply should not happen.
> 
> Oh and for the record I am currently riding '07 super t's but I am going to get some brand new forks real soon. I was actually planning on getting some '10 888's because of an amazing deal I came across, but I honestly don't think I will now. Of course I'm not going rampage big but I do not believe it would be very smart to buy a product that was notorious for terrible quality post 2007, then recently had a showing like rampage. Call me crazy but I do not believe that Marzocchi would be the wisest choice at this point.


Hey Man, shoot me a link to that deal. I'm looking for a good price on the '10 888 ti for a new DH rig project:thumbsup:


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> lets see....60 foot gap and come up short and stanctions break hmmmm..any fork breaks
> 
> look at the vid
> 
> http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Red-Bull-Rampage-Finals-Video-2010.html


a boxxer clearly would have been fine. coming up short on 60 footers is something sram checks in qc.


----------



## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> If three other wheels of the exact same brand and model folded just the same as the one you're talking about, I would say that they weren't as durable as the other wheels at the competition. Is that really so far fetched?
> 
> "It would appear that pinkbike is upon us." Yeah, tell me about it. I start a thread with serious, logical, and deductive discussion in mind and all I get is kids posting random pictures and flinging insults.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

b-kul said:


> unless all other competors forks were riden, abused, and crashed the same way by riders of similar stature and only the marzocchi broke your arguement means nothing.





ccspecialized said:


> Gee is roughly the same size, hit roughly the same gap and his **** didn't snap under him.





b-kul said:


> that statement roughly means nothing.


Then you are a moron and should be evaluated clinically for lack of the ability to understand simple logical statements.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

The fact that you guys aren't finding that 2 forks snapped at the stanchions is alarming. This isn't like breaking a derailleur or bending your handle bars. It isn't a freak accident either since 3 happened in the same day. And again, under similar abuse the boxxer's and 40's and manitou's didn't fail catastrophically.


----------



## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

"Another thing to consider is that you don't have to go rampage big to create that type of force. The speed is what is creating the force. They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air"

No....
I think you need to go to a physics class


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Gee took a more inside line that naturally set you up for the wall more...the iother guys hit almost strait on...I was next to the edge where romo hit...and the sound was awful...


Does that mean that marzocchi riders aren't as smart? Or that fox riders are smarter? Because I'm seeing evidence of both.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Nick_M2R said:


> "Another thing to consider is that you don't have to go rampage big to create that type of force. The speed is what is creating the force. They hit a huge jump going probably 20 mph (roughly, obviously I don't know how fast they were actually going) and gain speed in the air because of the lack of resistance while air borne coupled with gravitational pull. They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air"
> 
> No....
> I think you need to go to a physics class


That's you. Here I'll teach you.

KE=m * v^2

Kinetic energy equals the mass of the object, times the square of its velocity. Therefore if you weight twice as much, you will create twice as much kinetic energy. If you are going twice as fast, you create 4x the energy, 3 times as fast, 9 times the energy. :thumbsup:


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

Wait, it started out with 2 BENT, and 1 broken 888. Now it's 2 888s that are snapped in half at the stantions. Get your facts strait people.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Moosey said:


> Wait, it started out with 2 BENT, and 1 broken 888. Now it's 2 888s that are snapped in half at the stantions. Get your facts strait people.


Did you even watch the video? 2 snapped. 2. You can watch 2 888's snap at the stanchions, in the same place. Lacondeguy's was bent with a tacoed wheel after his backflip crash in his 2nd final run.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> And again, under similar abuse the boxxer's and 40's and manitou's didn't fail catastrophically.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

That snapped at the arch, I watched that happen to and questioned the strength. Don't forget she also buckled her session half way down the top tube. It was the only boxxer that failed that day then still the only one I saw at the end of the season. 2 others didn't crack in the same place in the same day. Did any boxxers snap in half at rampage?


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Beware of logic in this post:


The 888's probably failed the way they did because of the tapered stanchions. I don't the other manufacturers do this. The way I understand it, tapering the stanchions let's it transmit forces that it's designed to transmit but makes it more vulnerable to failure when it gets hit in a way it wasn't designed for. 

I don't see it as a totally bad thing as a broken for means plenty of absorbed energy and I think other forks from other companies, even if they survived in once piece, would likely be unusable.

It's also perfectly logical that 3 guys that had 3 awkward landings were all on 888's. It raises eyebrows but it's possible that they had the worst crashes from a fork's perspective. You'd have to review all the crashes at rampage and see how they landed to really say that the 3 broken 888's were exposed to the same forces as all the other forks. For example, the dude who cased the icon sender with the dorado, I don't think there was very much stress on the fork on the drop.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I did that to a Boxxer on my 3rd ever DH run. Quickly realized it was gonna be more expensive than XC racing. Remember how fast the middle of the 2001 Mt. Snow National course was? I clipped a hay bale and tumbled 200ft.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

Exactly! Marzocchi uses butted stanchions, and I believe it is a design flaw. They use them to try and save weight on a platform that is too heavy to begin with, so they cut corners. The hip jump that claimed the first fork was the same hip jump that gee hit. Granted they aren't under the EXACT same circumstances, but they are very comparable. In the replay, they both landed straight and the bar twist is what did the fork in. The problem is that 3 forks did it in the same day, and each appeared to be under different loading. The 2nd slammed the face of the canyon gap, and the bent one took a square edged hit to the front of the wheel. It's not true to say that none of the other forks that slammed, cartwheeled and even landed hard didn't have similar loading and forces.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> Exactly! Marzocchi uses butted stanchions, and I believe it is a design flaw. They use them to try and save weight on a platform that is too heavy to begin with, so they cut corners. The hip jump that claimed the first fork was the same hip jump that gee hit. Granted they aren't under the EXACT same circumstances, but they are very comparable. In the replay, they both landed straight and the bar twist is what did the fork in. The problem is that 3 forks did it in the same day, and each appeared to be under different loading. The 2nd slammed the face of the canyon gap, and the bent one took a square edged hit to the front of the wheel. It's not true to say that none of the other forks that slammed, cartwheeled and even landed hard didn't have similar loading and forces.


I don't think it's fair to blame the hip jump crash on that 888. There's just too many variable and Gee is an extremely skilled rider.

But the 888 Ti chassis is also on its first year of production while the 40's been around forever and the Boxxer has received it's fair share of testing. In the real world, you just can't test a fork under such circumstances very often. They might be beefier in their next iteration. But I still find it hard to believe that a boxxer is stronger than an 888.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

If I was entering Rampage maybe I'd put my straight gauge stanchions back on. For the jumps that I do (I never crash) I trust the butted ones.

Maybe consider the 888 Evo the freeride model and the Evo Ti the racer.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

ccspecialized said:


> Then you are a moron and should be evaluated clinically for lack of the ability to understand simple logical statements.


actually i believe you are the moron arguing a dying point. you cant compare a rider who is sorta kinda like that other rider and took a similar but smoother line compared to the other riders bigger, rougher more hucked line. just because the instances appeared similar doesnt mean the forces generated were even remotely close to each other.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

b-kul said:


> actually i believe you are the moron arguing a dying point. you cant compare a rider who is sorta kinda like that other rider and took a similar but smoother line compared to the other riders bigger, rougher more hucked line. just because the instances appeared similar doesnt mean the forces generated were even remotely close to each other.


The classic tin can experiment proves this true. And we all know that Boxxers and 40's are the thinnest tin cans in the business.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> That's you. Here I'll teach you.
> 
> KE=m * v^2
> 
> Kinetic energy equals the mass of the object, times the square of its velocity. Therefore if you weight twice as much, you will create twice as much kinetic energy. If you are going twice as fast, you create 4x the energy, 3 times as fast, 9 times the energy. :thumbsup:


Here I'll teach you,

kinetic energy in a non rotating object is 0.5m(v^2).


----------



## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Witnessed one of the 888 break. But no fork would have survived this crash. By the way, that is fork oil on the landing area, not blood.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Yeahhhhhhhh Pics!!!!!!


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> Taco-ing a wheel, bending a damper shaft are completely different than snapping your fork in half at the stanchions. I can't honestly see how, regardless of owning, liking, hating whatever you feel towards marzocchi, noticing that snapping a fork in half is a big f*cking deal comparatively. Gee is roughly the same size, hit roughly the same gap and his **** didn't snap under him. The green commencal that cartwheeled down the hill looked pretty in tact. A hell of a lot more intact since the fork wasn't in 2 pieces. Lacondeguy's crash wasn't the biggest wreck of the day, he bent his fork. Kyle straight's stem broke instead of his fork legs.
> 
> I pray that you (those who can't see that there is an obvious design flaw) don't deal with anything that might fail and cause harm to anyone.* If you do, go back to wherever you got your engineering degree and slap your strengths professor in the face, because they taught you wrong.*


Strengths professor lol.

Funny how people think that forks should be unbreakable. See the latest video, what do you think the safety factor for the allowable bending stress/shear stress of that stanction is? I bet is preeeeeeeeeetty high.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

tacubaya said:


> Here I'll teach you,
> 
> kinetic energy in a non rotating object is 0.5m(v^2).


That's a constant that I misplaced due to rage. It still scales the same, you know that.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> That's a constant that I misplaced due to rage. It still scales the same, you know that.


Yeah I know


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

The pics of the one on the hip jump will show the failure in the same spot. We can all agree that that's f*cking gnarly.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Holy sh*t! What did they feed that guy when he was a kid?

I want his legs as suspension on the front of my bike! That's some epic bottom out resistance!


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Well after reviewing that video I guess Marzocchi should do a recall or put a big warning sticker on 888s saying that they aren't approved for 50ft nose cases. Otherwise, imagine all the disappointed riders who won't be able to continue their ride after a little mistake like that.


----------



## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

*looking for logic... in all the wrong places....*

never mind. sorry


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

nuggin futz


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Cable0guy said:


> Witnessed one of the 888 break. But no fork would have survived this crash. By the way, that is fork oil on the landing area, not blood.


\hmmmm....nice vid thanks for posting....think about how many forks would have broke from that


----------



## Rb (Feb 28, 2007)

Hollllllllllllllllllllllllllllllly crap....!!!


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Old 888's were more robust, at least before 2008. New ones are made to maximize weight reduction.


----------



## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

His bike before the crash. He is sitting on the right. This is during the wind/rain delay, which took at least 30 minutes.


----------



## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> \hmmmm....nice vid thanks for posting....think about how many forks would have broke from that


Exactly. Nobody knows for sure but I would guess that any fork is toast in that situation. If the fork wouldn't have snapped the headtube probably would have.

I don't know what's funnier, all the armchair engineers on here or the guys with crazed with brand love / hate. :lol: Stuff breaks/ people crash...get over it

As for me, I'll be racing this weekend on my 888 evo ti and not really caring that it's an 888, a boxxer, or a 40.....It's all about the ride, not what stupid effin parts you are running


----------



## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

So let's see here...

First broken fork: 


ccspecialized said:


> Gee is roughly the same size, hit roughly the same gap and his **** didn't snap under him


But Gee's landing was nothing like Romaniuk's. For one, Gee didn't let his bars turn immediately after hitting the ground. From the video posted earlier in this thread, although shot from the wrong angle, it does look like Romaniuk hit the ground and immediately started heading to his right *before the fork broke*. Gee went straight out the landing. Thus your comparison is entirely invalid, the forces exerted on the forks are nothing alike. Try landing a jump with your wheel turned sometime and tell me how that compares the landing with the wheel straight 

Second broken fork:
He nose-cased a 60' canyon gap for ****'s sake. Nobody else did something even close to that (every other rider to hit that gap at least got their front wheel over) and that was his second time wrecking on it. I do not know if he replaced his fork after his first run, but if he didn't the fork already survived the stress of massively overshooting the landing.

Can you really fault either of these forks for breaking? I'm not a Marz fanboy, but seriously. Bashing a fork for breaking under extreme circumstances is not reasonable.


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Haven't people been doing insane hucks and jumps on 888's for years now as their fork of choice, with few to no ill effects?


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> Haven't people been doing insane hucks and jumps on 888's for years now as their fork of choice, with few to no ill effects?


I'm sure plenty of 888s have broken due to massive crashes. A burly fork is expected to handle huge jumps and hard landings. Nothing can be expected to survive big crashes without being massively over engineered for the other 99.9% of the time..


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Like the Monster T?

Time will tell on the new 888. However, it is clear it was engineered for weight weenies in DH and FR and I suspected people were going bigger than ever, but it might be closer to the truth that most of them are an aging population and the newer generation's focus is on light weight and going a bit big, but not that much. Mostly people buying bigger bikes than they need for the street cred.


----------



## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> Well after reviewing that video I guess Marzocchi should do a recall or put a big warning sticker on 888s saying that they aren't approved for 50ft nose cases. Otherwise, * imagine all the disappointed riders who won't be able to continue their ride after a little mistake like that. *


Ladies and gentlemen, that right there is the very best post in this thread so far.


----------



## lelebebbel (Jan 31, 2005)

Well now that we've established that the fork can't be blamed for failing after a massive crash like that, the next question can only be:
Do the new 888s somehow cause people to suck at riding? Maybe the reflections from the stanchions are blinding them...


----------



## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Mike Hopkins? Scott rider, Marzo equipped?


----------



## 317000 (Mar 2, 2007)

You guys have got to be kidding me. Complaining about that fork breaking under those circumstances is like like wrecking your F350 into an concrete overpass support and then *****ing about how is was supposed to be "Built Ford Tough". 

Even if the fork DID survive, who in there right mind would want to ride it after that?


----------



## _rich_ (Jan 22, 2004)

It's time for different versions to be offered..
The DH version: for all the people that are concerned about weight..
and the FREERIDE/RAMPAGE version: made with thicker stanchions , beefier crowns,and obviously a bit heavier for piece of mind....

I personally would never ride any fork on todays market(meaning designed with weight as a key factor)to be used as a drop fork.
I don't do nearly what these guys do,but even the stuff I do, i'm only comfortable with my Avalanche DHF-MT version(MT version has thicker upper stanchions and a extremely strong lower crown)made for big hits.....

p.s. that casing crash would have broke any fork but light weight, and 50 footers, are a bad combination IMO !!!!!!!


----------



## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

tacubaya said:


> Strengths professor lol.


Yeah I thought that was funny too. And mechanics of materials is only part of this. This is a dynamic impact. Its far too complicated for internet engineering. Here's a list I'd want if I was actually going to analyze this:

Rider weight - front to rear when he hit will make a difference too
Bike weight
Rider speed
Damping rate/Spring stiffness
Amount of travel used at impact - directly related to the above
Tire wall stiffness/air pressure - tires will absorb a lot of energy
Angle of impact (on 3 axis since some of these guys landed crooked)
Material strengths
Geometry of the bike - which would change based on amount of travel used.
Color of fork
Amount of shimmmmms

I'd also want an up close look at the fork right where it snapped to tell if this was a bending or twisting (shear) failure.

Lots of this is known, but a lot of it would be a guess.

Maybe all the guys riding Marzocchis are hacks? Crap, I ride a 888. I better sell it and buy something with more awesome.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

*my RS Dart would have held up just fine during that canyon gap.... *


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

by the way, did any notice that in the video he is NOT on the bike during impact??? 
so essentially the bike was only under its own weight and motion upon impact...... i.e. the riders weight and force was not contributing to the breakage. 

keep in mind that the other 88 that snapped did so at the EXACT same spot in the stanchions.......


the facts are adding up here..........and they clearly point to a weak spot in the stanchion.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> keep in mind that the other 88 that snapped did so at the *EXACT* same spot in the stanchions.......


You were there and measured where the breaks were?:skep:


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

I believe the color of the fork to be the biggest factor in the failures.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

*wow, stupidity reigns here..... ^^^^*

ok, my absolute sincere apologies...my prior statement was inproperly worded for some of the lesser inteligent people on here.....

you're absolutely right.....no i wasnt there and no i didnt freaking measure them.....

:bluefrown:

however, i do have these two things permanently attached to head.....i think some people call them EYES...
and from the pictures and video, you can clearly see that both broken forks break in damn near the exact same spot.....
.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> ok, my absolute sincere apologies...my prior statement was inproperly worded for some of the lesser inteligent people on here.....
> 
> you're absolutely right.....no i wasnt there and no i didnt freaking measure them.....
> 
> ...


When you're talking about structural failures, there's a world of difference between "exactly" and "damn near". Next time, before you call someone out on their smarts you should learn how to spell Intelligent, tool.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

whodaphuck said:


> When you're talking about structural failures, there's a world of difference between "exactly" and "damn near". Next time, before you call someone out on their smarts you should learn how to spell Intelligent, tool.


ok, you got me......I spelled intelligent wrong......oops. 
congratulations, you must be the current spelling bee champ.....
here's one for ya....can you spell this>

K 
I

S

S

M

Y

A

$

$

Y

O

U

K

O

O

K


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> ok, you got me......I spelled intelligent wrong......oops.
> congratulations, you must be the current spelling bee champ.....
> here's one for ya....can you spell this>
> 
> ...


Ouch, you got me. You must be captain of the debate team.


----------



## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I've done destructive testing of "double tripleclamp forks". We put a steel axle in there and used a press (and sensors) until they failed.

It looks like he endo'd the jump in the video to me.

What we learned from the testing is that those forks are way stronger than a chromoly BMX dirt jump fork. They are super, super strong and it doesn't matter which brand you test, they are all very strong.

I don't think you can make a saleable fork that can withstand crashes like that. It would be too heavy and even if you did, the headtube would just stretch or break/crack.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

whodaphuck said:


> Ouch, you got me. You must be captain of the debate team.


ok, that actually made me laugh my a$$ off..... :thumbsup:


----------



## retro83 (Sep 15, 2008)

Cable0guy said:


> Witnessed one of the 888 break. But no fork would have survived this crash. By the way, that is fork oil on the landing area, not blood.


Wow, cheers for posting that!

Lucky to walk away from that with no injuries


----------



## JD Risk (Nov 7, 2005)

I also noticed the rider was completely off the bike when the front wheel slammed into the back of the landing. If he was on the bike when it nose cased, I wouldn't think twice about the fork snapping. However, since no rider was on the bike when the front wheel hit, I thought the bike would have been deflected and done a front flip instead of snapping the fork. I guess things were lined up perfectly (unfortunate for the fork) and the forces concentrated on the stanchions instead of sending the bike into a front flip. I'm no engineer but I'd like to hear comments on this from someone who knows what he's talking about.

One other thing. Is the wall thickness of the stanchions on the Ti 888's thinner than that of the regular EVO? I don't know why people are getting so worked up over this. Three of the same model forks failed in one event. Maybe any fork would fail under those circumstances, but it's at least an odd coincidence and worth discussing.


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Not to the zoke Fanbois who already sunk money and their existences into their colorful forks.

People, including zoke, insisted the 2008 models were fine, even in the face of a disasterous rollout. Even the same happened in 2009, led by some in this thread, in fact.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

JD Risk said:


> I also noticed the rider was completely off the bike when the front wheel slammed into the back of the landing. If he was on the bike when it nose cased, I wouldn't think twice about the fork snapping. However, since no rider was on the bike when the front wheel hit, I thought the bike would have been deflected and done a front flip instead of snapping the fork. I guess things were lined up perfectly (unfortunate for the fork) and the forces concentrated on the stanchions instead of sending the bike into a front flip. I'm no engineer but I'd like to hear comments on this from someone who knows what he's talking about.
> 
> One other thing. Is the wall thickness of the stanchions on the Ti 888's thinner than that of the regular EVO? I don't know why people are getting so worked up over this. Three of the same model forks failed in one event. Maybe any fork would fail under those circumstances, but it's at least an odd coincidence and worth discussing.


i think it hit at an angle such that the bike wouldnt simply defect and flip foreward. the fork snapped because the driving force was into the wall of the landing and not up and over. when the fork snapped it allowed the momentum of the back wheel to carry it up and over. just thinking out loud.


----------



## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> That's you. Here I'll teach you.
> 
> KE=m * v^2
> 
> Kinetic energy equals the mass of the object, times the square of its velocity. Therefore if you weight twice as much, you will create twice as much kinetic energy. If you are going twice as fast, you create 4x the energy, 3 times as fast, 9 times the energy. :thumbsup:


Energy was never mentioned. He made it seem like the gravitational pull was going to contribute to their horizontal velocity. Which is simply incorrect. I understand if you read his original quote again it can be interpreted that the "5-10mph gained" is in the vertical direction. Which actually came out to be around 9.5m/s at ~15feet...which is actually an increase of 33mph!


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

whodaphuck said:


> When you're talking about structural failures, there's a world of difference between "exactly" and "damn near". Next time, before you call someone out on their smarts you should learn how to spell Intelligent, tool.


Yup there is a difference, and I'm sure the engineers at marzocchi are looking into it pretty closely.

But there's no need, obviously it was just a coincidence that both forks snapped 2-3" from the lower crown...


----------



## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

gticlay said:


> I've done destructive testing of "double tripleclamp forks". We put a steel axle in there and used a press (and sensors) until they failed.
> 
> It looks like he endo'd the jump in the video to me.
> 
> ...


It looked like he edno'd the jump to me too.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

gticlay said:


> I've done destructive testing of "double tripleclamp forks". We put a steel axle in there and used a press (and sensors) until they failed.
> 
> It looks like he endo'd the jump in the video to me.
> 
> ...


Exactly.


----------



## thrasher_s (Oct 5, 2009)

I never have ridden an 888, but bad publicity doesn't make me want to get rid of my Boxxer.

Whether or not there is a problem (who knows?) it still looks bad on the company. Even if they DONT break, the company looks bad when team riders dont win.


----------



## [dB]Will (Jan 25, 2007)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Wow, just wow. You obviously have no concept of what real riding entails. Hitting a 70ft jump at 20mph? Just....wow.


depends. Are you going 70ft. down or 70ft. out?

Didn't quite think that one out, eh Einstein?


----------



## Buoyen (Aug 14, 2006)

I thought most people would call it a drop if it was 70ft down.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

*You Make The Call*

someone already posted pics of the other broken Marzsnappy......

here's the second fork that snapped..... :skep:


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> someone already posted pics of the other broken Marzsnappy......
> 
> here's the second fork that snapped..... :skep:


well they are not at the butted part....and all forks are going to break about there because they are compressed when they hit


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

My theory on the gap breakage is that the fork hit the gap at an in which the fork couldn't absorb the impact with its 8 inches of love (like a 90 degree angle). Perhaps 888's are so stiff that they break instead of flex when force from the wrong angle gets to high.


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Poor Marzocchi, trying to come back.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

I want to buy aa 2011 888 (because its sooper cool with green stantions) and go for a ride, maybe hit a 5-6 foot drop, and prove it WONT EXPLODE! Then, i will go out, buy a cannon, launch that fork out of my cannon at 60 miles an hour, by itself, at a concrete wall and see how well it holds up.  Yes, the guy that snapped his 888 on the canyon gap wasnt on his bike when the 888 snapped, but its still 35lbs slamming a 6-8lbs fork into what is pretty much a solid wall at the angle it hit, an who knows how fast the bike was going. 

After that expirement i will do the same to a 2011 boxxer, and a 2011 fox 40 just to prove that when getting hit hard enogh, can break.

I think the whole 2 snapped forks and 1 bent fork thing only proves that marzocchi only sponsores the biggest badasses out there. (Rock shox and fox 40 sponsores semi-badassed because they cant snap their forks =])


----------



## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

Moosey said:


> I want to buy aa 2011 888 (because its sooper cool with green stantions) and go for a ride, maybe hit a 5-6 foot drop, and prove it WONT EXPLODE! Thin, i will go out, buy a cannon, laung that fork out of my cannon at 60 miles an hour, by itself, at a concrete wall and see how well it holds up. Yes, the guy that snapped his 888 on the canyon gap wasnt on his 888 when it snapped, but its still 35lbs slamming a 6-8lbs fork into what is pretty much a solid wall at the angle it hit, an who knows how fast the bike was going.
> 
> After that expirement i will do the same to a 2011 boxxer, and a 2011 fox 40 just to prove that when getting hit hard enogh, can break.
> 
> I think the whole 2 snapped forks and 1 bent fork thing only proves that marzocchi only sponsores the biggest badasses out there. (Rock shox and fox 40 sponsores semi-badassed because they cant snap their forks =])


:thumbsup: Best post, thank you.


----------



## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

ccspecialized said:


> Did you even watch the video? 2 snapped. 2. You can watch 2 888's snap at the stanchions, in the same place. Lacondeguy's was bent with a tacoed wheel after his backflip crash in his 2nd final run.


How many forks have you broken that way? How many forks have you even seen broken that way? A total of 2? What's alarming is that you have no concept of what a small percentage of failure that is.


----------



## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Lacondeguy's crash. 2nd run, final day. He looked so good before this happened. I forgot I had pictures of this too (actually a friend took them).


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

How did he not have nasty things happen to his right arm?

Props to the photog.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

How did he not have nasty things happen to his right arm?

Props to the photog.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Anyone have a/v for this?


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

DeerhillOG said:


> Anyone have a/v for this?


even his down tube is bent


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

It's 2 in one day of a newly released fork. You don't understand how big 2 out of 26 in terms of a fork exploding


----------



## Dwdrums00 (Jul 8, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> even his down tube is bent


Hey marzocchi fan boy, give it a rest!!! The down tube is shaped that way! 

http://knollybikes.com/bikes/podium


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

someones a negative nancy


----------



## KAMANCHI (Aug 30, 2008)

Hello everyone this is Pablo from Corsair. I've been reading this for a bit and just have to give a couple cents.

It takes an irrational amount of love, time and commitment to bring leading edge equipment to all of us that ride. No matter who makes forks or whatever it's all done for "you". I've committed my life to this sport and I am never surprised when anything fails in MTB because of the off-the-charts variables that we all create when riding. Everyone at Marzocchi are not trying to hurt people or put them through a catastrophic life-changing failure... they are pushing the limits (just like the Rampage athletes) of what's going to make you a more confident and happier with your ride experiences. Rampage IS part of the leading edge of our sport and please don't give the negatives on Marzocchi... I've seen how hard they've worked to improve "our" lives through better and better performance equipment. Same goes for any bike company that puts their heart into it...

Please watch this very inspiring Honda video to understand what spirit is behind all of us to create, fail and create again until the smiles are at the end of a ride


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

you are so blinded by your alliances, it's embarrassing


----------



## KAMANCHI (Aug 30, 2008)

And to keep it even as a frame manufacture I keep even contact with all suspension and product families. I believe in everyone that makes product for this sport and all of us have failed... every suspension/bike/product company has failed bringing "us" what we want.


----------



## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that most of us aren't going to be riding Rampagelike terrain anytime soon - at least not like the pros. However, lots of us will be rough on our equipment due to our lack of skill and technique - let's face it we're hacks! How will the Marz forks handle repeated lower stress impacts due to poor riding? 

2 of their new forks snapping in a similar place under albeit extreme conditions does not bode well. There were lots of crashes, but I didn't seen any other forks snapped in two at the stantions. People seem intent on denying even the possiblity that they have a problem based on some pretty shaky logic - "I don't ride like that, so I won't have a problem" doesn't make sense if the long term longevity appears questionable. Like it or not, since they moved all production from Italy to Asia (in 2008?), the quality has been much worse than it once was.


----------



## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

ccspecialized said:


> you are so blinded by your alliances, it's embarrassing


you are so retarded other people are embarrassed for you.


----------



## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

ccspecialized said:


> It's 2 in one day of a newly released fork. You don't understand how big 2 out of 26 in terms of a fork exploding


Where are you getting your numbers from? There are only 26 of these forks in the world?


----------



## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

KAMANCHI said:


> Hello everyone this is Pablo from Corsair. I've been reading this for a bit and just have to give a couple cents.
> 
> It takes an irrational amount of love, time and commitment to bring leading edge equipment to all of us that ride. No matter who makes forks or whatever it's all done for "you". I've committed my life to this sport and I am never surprised when anything fails in MTB because of the off-the-charts variables that we all create when riding. Everyone at Marzocchi are not trying to hurt people or put them through a catastrophic life-changing failure... they are pushing the limits (just like the Rampage athletes) of what's going to make you a more confident and happier with your ride experiences. Rampage IS part of the leading edge of our sport and please don't give the negatives on Marzocchi... I've seen how hard they've worked to improve "our" lives through better and better performance equipment. Same goes for any bike company that puts their heart into it...
> 
> Please watch this very inspiring Honda video to understand what spirit is behind all of us to create, fail and create again until the smiles are at the end of a ride


Good point - I don't believe for a minute Marzocchi is trying to make a bad product (I love my '07 66!), but I hope both of those forks go back to the factory for study and improvement. Not sure about Andreu's fork - maybe that was the one-off...


----------



## [dB]Will (Jan 25, 2007)

Buoyen said:


> I thought most people would call it a drop if it was 70ft down.


Speed only takes you "out", gravity takes you "down". Your welcome.

Sincerely,
Cap't. Obvious


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

texasflood said:


> 1. Lots of us will be rough on our equipment due to our lack of skill and technique - let's face it we're hacks! How will the Marz forks handle repeated lower stress impacts due to poor riding?
> 
> 2. Since they moved all production from Italy to Asia (product year 2008) the quality has been much worse than it once was.


1. The butted stanchions have been ridden by the public for 9 months now. These are the first failures I've seen.

2. 2008 models had too much bushing play. I'm not sure if this was in the design or manufacturing. Remember, not only did they move production but they introduced a totally new chassis. It was tightened in 2009 but not enough. 2010 saw a redesigned bushing that feels fine. Marz will warranty and replace all 2008 & 2009 lowers with loose bushings with 2010s. Besides the bushings in 2008, all the problems I heard about involved ATA and PAR and weren't a result of poor quality, but rather bad designs (remove PAR and tighten set screws in ATA to solve problems) or lack of maintenance (keep o-rings greased and in an oil bath to prevent leaking).

The forums are a great resource for info but you have to keep things in perspective. Thousands of forks are sold and on here you see a few problems. This example goes a step farther in that the "problems" are experienced in an extreme freeride comp.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

DeerhillOG said:


> Anyone have a/v for this?


yeah sure.....i bet it goes something like this;

_"i dunno what happened man, these forks suck, i was just riding along and them BAM, they just broke.....I should got a Fox instead, or hell even a RST.....would have held up better than this piesce of junk...."_


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> well they are not at the butted part....and all forks are going to break about there because they are compressed when they hit


The one that slammed the face of the canyon wasn't compressed at all. Broke in the same spot


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

KAMANCHI said:


> And to keep it even as a frame manufacture I keep even contact with all suspension and product families. I believe in everyone that makes product for this sport and all of us have failed... every suspension/bike/product company has failed bringing "us" what we want.


Just thought i'd let you know 2 things...

1. I agree with your view on this situation completely

2. Your new bike is sooo ****ing cool.. Im looking at a Slopestyle bike and i think i just found what im looking for...

and 1 question:

are you going to have complete bike sets for your 2010 or 2011 bikes? the konig is sweet too, but im not smart enough to build up my own bike...

Gratz to zink for killin it on your new bike.


----------



## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> even his down tube is bent


No, it's just flexy that way.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

KAMANCHI said:


> Please watch this very inspiring Honda video to understand what spirit is behind all of us to create, fail and create again until the smiles are at the end of a ride


great video....a must see


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

ccspecialized said:


> The one that slammed the face of the canyon wasn't compressed at all. Broke in the same spot


do you have another video in slow motion to prove your point???

did you know at the bottom of that landing it is almost a G-out??

Were you at the event or just watching it on the internet or pictures??

fess up....videos look way different then in person...the sheer magnitude of how big this stuff is ...is almost cartoonish in dimensions....it is that ridiculus big


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Moosey said:


> I want to buy aa 2011 888 (because its sooper cool with green stantions) and go for a ride, maybe hit a 5-6 foot drop, and prove it WONT EXPLODE! Then, i will go out, buy a cannon, launch that fork out of my cannon at 60 miles an hour, by itself, at a concrete wall and see how well it holds up. Yes, the guy that snapped his 888 on the canyon gap wasnt on his bike when the 888 snapped, but its still 35lbs slamming a 6-8lbs fork into what is pretty much a solid wall at the angle it hit, an who knows how fast the bike was going.
> 
> After that expirement i will do the same to a 2011 boxxer, and a 2011 fox 40 just to prove that when getting hit hard enogh, can break.
> 
> I think the whole 2 snapped forks and 1 bent fork thing only proves that marzocchi only sponsores the biggest badasses out there. (Rock shox and fox 40 sponsores semi-badassed because they cant snap their forks =])


By this logic, the forks breaking without a rider on the bikes means that they are not strong enough when they have 5-7x the weight on them .


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

KAMANCHI said:


> Hello everyone this is Pablo from Corsair. I've been reading this for a bit and just have to give a couple cents.
> 
> It takes an irrational amount of love, time and commitment to bring leading edge equipment to all of us that ride. No matter who makes forks or whatever it's all done for "you". I've committed my life to this sport and I am never surprised when anything fails in MTB because of the off-the-charts variables that we all create when riding. Everyone at Marzocchi are not trying to hurt people or put them through a catastrophic life-changing failure... they are pushing the limits (just like the Rampage athletes) of what's going to make you a more confident and happier with your ride experiences. Rampage IS part of the leading edge of our sport and please don't give the negatives on Marzocchi... I've seen how hard they've worked to improve "our" lives through better and better performance equipment. Same goes for any bike company that puts their heart into it...
> 
> Please watch this very inspiring Honda video to understand what spirit is behind all of us to create, fail and create again until the smiles are at the end of a ride


You've probably had blinders on, but Marzocchi had two disasterous years, plus disasters in the lineup before that. Marzocchi didn't try to improve our lives during then by moving production to Taiwan, then raising prices, then pawning defective forks off on people, then denying there were defects publicly on mtbr, only to have one story after another after another, making people pay for warranty returns, then rejecting those, such as the bushing slop issue, only to admit it later.

So it's easy to give negatives to Marzocchi because people are scared to use them, even the fanbois. That reputation as the worst suspension company in the industry was earned by those people there, some who are still there.

As I understand it, Corsair has their hiccups too, so I think it would be a good idea for you to worry about your own company's struggles with the design, execution, and customer service, most of all.


----------



## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I just want to ride a nice DH bike with nice suspension. Don't care who makes it. Don't care if a few pros have broken them. I am not at that level. Riding is fun. 

That is all.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> even his down tube is bent


bike looks like it's on roids


----------



## KAMANCHI (Aug 30, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> You've probably had blinders on, but Marzocchi had two disasterous years, plus disasters in the lineup before that. Marzocchi didn't try to improve our lives during then by moving production to Taiwan, then raising prices, then pawning defective forks off on people, then denying there were defects publicly on mtbr, only to have one story after another after another, making people pay for warranty returns, then rejecting those, such as the bushing slop issue, only to admit it later.
> 
> So it's easy to give negatives to Marzocchi because people are scared to use them, even the fanbois. That reputation as the worst suspension company in the industry was earned by those people there, some who are still there.
> 
> As I understand it, Corsair has their hiccups too, so I think it would be a good idea for you to worry about your own company's struggles with the design, execution, and customer service, most of all.


. 
All companies have the same problems as Marzocchi. All of them. As far as Corsair I'm a new owner and am enjoying great friendships and successes with all suspension manufactures and product companies and will always go to bat for them by keeping a rad outlook on growing the future of our sport.

Corsair/Fox/Marzocchi/Rockshox...ect we've all been massively successful this year because we will never stop because of mistakes and failures... learn and move on with a positive outlook to help others we may never meet enjoy riding.

p


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

junktrunk said:


> By this logic, the forks breaking without a rider on the bikes means that they are not strong enough when they have 5-7x the weight on them .


holy crap this is like trying to teach a retarded monkey to take a **** in my brothers bed...

Do you understand anything. The angle of impact was similar to the bike hitting a solid wall of hard dirt. Then u add the velocity at which the bike was traveling, add the 30 sumthin lbs the bike weighs, and hopefully u realize the stantions probably took a few hundred lbs of impact. The stantions didn't just snap sitting there idiot, so the 5x lbs the rider adds won't change a damn thing, unless the rider is riding it into a wall at 6000 miles an hour dumb ****. The fork didn't just say to itself "hey, I feel like snapping right now" and snapped, it probably said "holy **** what the **** I'm going to ****ing die!!!!" as it slammed the backside of the landing with a lot of force causing it to snap.

It's called common sense idiot. Go find some.

I'm tired of this. It seems like people are REALLY trying hard to HATE the new 888. Find me a fork not made of solid steel that would survive that impact and I'll **** myself.


----------



## KAMANCHI (Aug 30, 2008)

charging_rhinos said:


> I just want to ride a nice DH bike with nice suspension. Don't care who makes it. Don't care if a few pros have broken them. I am not at that level. Riding is fun.
> 
> That is all.


Rad!


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

KAMANCHI said:


> .
> All companies have the same problems as Marzocchi. All of them. As far as Corsair I'm a new owner and am enjoying great friendships and successes with all suspension manufactures and product companies and will always go to bat for them by keeping a rad outlook on growing the future of our sport.
> 
> Corsair/Fox/Marzocchi/Rockshox...ect we've all been massively successful this year because we will never stop because of mistakes and failures... learn and move on with a positive outlook to help others we may never meet enjoy riding.
> ...


Did you actually say "rad"?

However, like I said, which you don't address, your company has your own issues, from design issues that still need to be worked out, to your customer service issues. Until then, it's probably not the place for you to defend a company that spent a few years destroying its reputation and needs to earn back the confidence of the buying public. Much of whatever else you're saying is just utter nonsense. It doesn't even address your customer service aspect. It's as if you're in the game to be an industry socialite.


----------



## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

As someone who was worked as mechanical test engineer and worked extensively in failure analysis, this thread makes me want to eat my brains. There is not a single person on this board (myself included) who is qualified to speak on the subject of catastrophic failure under circumstances like those in Rampage.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

junktrunk said:


> Did you actually say "rad"?
> 
> However, like I said, which you don't address, your company has your own issues, from design issues that still need to be worked out, to your customer service issues. Until then, it's probably not the place for you to defend a company that spent a few years destroying its reputation and needs to earn back the confidence of the buying public. Much of whatever else you're saying is just utter nonsense. It doesn't even address your customer service aspect. It's as if you're in the game to be an industry socialite.


it's not very rad of you to ask him if he really said rad. Then again what are you doing in the biking industry to tell him what to say. I like corsair, never heard of any issues with their bikes, although I don't know anything about customer service. And if he can't comment on the 2011 888 issue then no one who has commented so far has a right to comment. 
Get the sand out of your vagina man and learn to comprehend stuff. If you read it it's not all nonsense. And when you say Marz spent a few tear "destroying their reputation" you make it seem like they did it on purpose. Lighten up bro. Just be rad okay?


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Moosey said:


> it's not very rad of you to ask him if he really said rad. Then again what are you doing in the biking industry to tell him what to say. I like corsair, never heard of any issues with their bikes, although I don't know anything about customer service. And if he can't comment on the 2011 888 issue then no one who has commented so far has a right to comment.
> Get the sand out of your vagina man and learn to comprehend stuff. If you read it it's not all nonsense. And when you say Marz spent a few tear "destroying their reputation" you make it seem like they did it on purpose. Lighten up bro. Just be rad okay?


Wow, someone else has sand in their fanboi vagina. Who cares if Marz did it on purpose or not. They still spent a couple years not oing the right thing and testing their products on paying customers and making them pay for repairs as they concealed them. TST was another disaster that went on for too many years.

So yes, they destroyed their "Rad" reputation for durable suspension products, and now you have a thread on a smack site with people that won't trust them, and even if a fluke, it's easy to tip back into getting something else from another company, which despite your efforts, a lot of people will do. And if history holds true, the ones that do buy will be posting their problems here soon. We'll see how many more 2010 stanchions separate from the crowns.


----------



## KAMANCHI (Aug 30, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> Did you actually say "rad"?
> 
> However, like I said, which you don't address, your company has your own issues, from design issues that still need to be worked out, to your customer service issues. Until then, it's probably not the place for you to defend a company that spent a few years destroying its reputation and needs to earn back the confidence of the buying public. Much of whatever else you're saying is just utter nonsense. It doesn't even address your customer service aspect. It's as if you're in the game to be an industry socialite.


Corsair has *failed on so many levels* and that's why it was sold and turned into Corsair 2.0....but *All* the past issues have been the *best* possible dominos to a *Crankworks/Rampage/Freerideworld-Championship* this year with an amazing friend and it will only get better and better. Defending friendships shouldn't be very surprising here.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

junktrunk said:


> Wow, someone else has sand in their fanboi vagina. Who cares if Marz did it on purpose or not. They still spent a couple years not oing the right thing and testing their products on paying customers and making them pay for repairs as they concealed them. TST was another disaster that went on for too many years.
> 
> So yes, they destroyed their "Rad" reputation for durable suspension products, and now you have a thread on a smack site with people that won't trust them, and even if a fluke, it's easy to tip back into getting something else from another company, which despite your efforts, a lot of people will do. And if history holds true, the ones that do buy will be posting their problems here soon. We'll see how many more 2010 stanchions separate from the crowns.


wow, I have sand In my vagina, nice insult, but please, try to think your own next time ok buddy, don't just copy me. I'm not a fanboi either, I'm just tired of everyone bashing Marz because 2 of them broke. I also thought it was very rude the way you talked to the corsair guy. Do you work for a major bike manufacturing company? I'm guessing no. So what basis do you have to judge everyone else on? Go start mass producing your own bike frames and then well see how you customer support is...


----------



## KAMANCHI (Aug 30, 2008)

DHidiot said:


> As someone who was worked as mechanical test engineer and worked extensively in failure analysis, this thread makes me want to eat my brains. There is not a single person on this board (myself included) who is qualified to speak on the subject of catastrophic failure under circumstances like those in Rampage.


I agree.


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

This is a boxxer and a lot less extreme than rampage






does this mean boxxers explode and kill people too?


----------



## CrustyOne (Oct 29, 2007)

Dammit...........ill have to buy a manipoo


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Moosey said:


> wow, I have sand In my vagina, nice insult, but please, try to think your own next time ok buddy, don't just copy me. I'm not a fanboi either, I'm just tired of everyone bashing Marz because 2 of them broke. I also thought it was very rude the way you talked to the corsair guy. Do you work for a major bike manufacturing company? I'm guessing no. So what basis do you have to judge everyone else on? Go start mass producing your own bike frames and then well see how you customer support is...


Rude? Sorry if the world isn't always nice for your fragile soul. I'm sure the corsair guy can defend himself without being associated with you.

And your argument about customer support is not making the situation better. Basically, you said, "customer support is bad because that's the way it is, so if you don't believe me, start a company and see how easy it is to have bad customer support".

Good show. And one doesn't need major bike manufacturing experience. Hell, most of the bike companies out there have none of their own in mass production. It's just typically inane comedic ranting from a whacko on a smack site.


----------



## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

so much crap flying, i put the popcorn away again...

maybe next year it will be 3 RS totems that break, or maybe 5 Fox40s and and..

fact- no 2 landings were the same for the people involved, so anyone sitting behind their screens making judgement calls based on a few clips of vid, without being a tech onsite with stresstesting equipment on the bikes to log whats really going on, need to STFU.


----------



## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

junktrunk said:


> Did you actually say "rad"?


Did you actually just question whether another mountain biker said "rad?"


----------



## Triple8Sol (Aug 21, 2009)

Such a stupid thread filled with idiots. Looking at actual pics/vids of those crashes leaves should leave no doubt. Those are some rough crashes and pretty much any fork would catastrophically fail in those situations. Marz "online" reputation aside, it's just ridiculous to attribute it to the forks and assume that another brand/model would've survived. Dream on.


----------



## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

junktrunk said:


> Much of whatever else you're saying is just utter nonsense. /QUOTE]
> 
> Ohhh, the irony....
> 
> ...


----------



## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

Triple8Sol said:


> Such a stupid thread filled with idiots. Looking at actual pics/vids of those crashes leaves should leave no doubt. Those are some rough crashes and pretty much any fork would catastrophically fail in those situations. Marz "online" reputation aside, it's just ridiculous to attribute it to the forks and assume that another brand/model would've survived. Dream on.


exactly. :thumbsup:

The thread is a funny read though.


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

Mistakes happen in all businesses. It's how they are dealt with that makes or breaks the relationship with the customer. I haven't been involved in Marzocchi's recent problems, because the pre '06 forks on our bikes have needed nothing but oil changes. Sounds like they may have dropped the ball with some QC and CS issues, and that's hurt the company. It also sounds like they are trying to make things right. I'm not excusing the mistakes, but since people are the fabric of a company, mistakes are inevitable. I've been riding suspended bikes for around 16 years, and I have dealt with most of the major suspension companies in that time. It's been my experience that Marzocchi has been as good or better than any other company in product and service. They have been designing suspension since 1949, IIRC, so they have definitely seen some ups and downs. I've been running their forks for 12 years. I've pounded the snot out of the Z1FR on my Bullit for 5 years with nothing but oil changes. Did a little research and decided to roll the dice - 2010 888 Evo Ti for a V10 build inbound as I type. I guess time will tell.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

basically, (and its clearly been stated before) the point a few of us are trying to make here is this;

Marzocchi has put out inherently defective product in the past ('08, '09 and some in '10), anyone who denies that is (for lack of better words) a damn fool. 
YES WE ALL AGREE that 90% of the people on this site will never expose a fork to as much abuse as seen on the Rampage, agreed, fine, whatever.....thats NOT what we are debating here.......

SO......moving forward, it does not look when 3 of Zocchis products fail in ONE single event....PERIOD. 
not to mention, the failures are all very indicative of a weak point in the stanchion....a completely NEW problem compared to '08 and '09

anyone ever heard the saying; "_if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....then it must be a duck_"....?

Marz 2008=duck, Marz 2009=duck, Marz 2010/11= granted, a bit early to tell, but it sure is LOOKING LIKE A DUCK......

some of you people are completely oblivious to the signs......what do you need a freaking billboard?


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

You forgot to add the external bladder TST dampers in the AM and Marathon forks that were on since the end of 2003-2004. Those were disasters too and still never worked, even at the end.


----------



## [TA] (Dec 3, 2008)

*This thread is amazing*

with intelligent discussion like this it's no wonder MTBR is on it's death bed...


----------



## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Just go ride. Ride on whatever fork you want. If you feel you just _have_ to slander something, pick a more worthy target, like expensive ink cartridges, the movie Point Break, or cyclocrossers.


----------



## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> basically, (and its clearly been stated before) the point a few of us are trying to make here is this;
> 
> Marzocchi has put out inherently defective product in the past ('08, '09 and some in '10), anyone who denies that is (for lack of better words) a damn fool.
> YES WE ALL AGREE that 90% of the people on this site will never expose a fork to as much abuse as seen on the Rampage, agreed, fine, whatever.....thats NOT what we are debating here.......
> ...


did you just join up here to troll and bash products ?

ive seen more fox40s blow bladders then any other fork out there.

I know people who love their fox40s, but dont go anywhere without at least 5 spare bladders for a weekend.

The argument that 3 888s broke in an event as extreme as the rampage, must mean the new 888s are faulty, simply doesnt add up.

then you put up "yes we agree 90% of the users here".. erhh.. how about 99.99% wont ever get close to abusing a fork the way it gets raped at rampage. see, i can pull BS numbers out my ass too, and it still doesnt make it any more or less right.

your completely ignoring the fact that NONE of the crashes were identical, and that the crashes that did break those 888s, would have broken ANY fork out there, or can you prove to me that a Boxxer will handle casing a 50ft gap ? i didnt see any of the fox40 riders case that gap either with the front, does that prove it can handle it ?

i guess we should rewrite your duck walk too, to if it posts like a troll, argues like a trolls, then, we are ignoring the obvious signs here, and we need a billboard..


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Oh, now it's _slander_!


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

DeanH said:


> did you just join up here to troll and bash products ?
> 
> ive seen more fox40s blow bladders then any other fork out there.
> 
> ...


plenty of idiots on here, but I think you have got to be the reigning king of the idiots :band: (i suppose congratulations on your achievement, someone get this guy a cookie please)

(btw, I'm still trying to figure out why I joined on here.....but i'm definitely scared about being here, your stupidity might be contagious)

here's some logic for you, free of charge too since i feel bad for ya :thumbsup: ;

THE FACT THAT THE TWO CRASHES WERE NOT THE SAME, YET THE STANCHIONS SNAPPED IN THE SAME AREA........oh my, could we be on to something here......wowsers!


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> plenty of idiots on here, but I think you have got to be the reigning king of the idiots :band: (i suppose congratulations on your achievement, someone get this guy a cookie please)
> 
> (btw, I'm still trying to figure out why I joined on here.....but i'm definitely scared about being here, your stupidity might be contagious)
> 
> ...


Dude, step away from the bong and learn to Post.like.you.have.a.brain.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

please explain this boxxer


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

junktrunk said:


> You forgot to add the external bladder TST dampers in the AM and Marathon forks that were on since the end of 2003-2004. Those were disasters too and still never worked, even at the end.


so a dissatisfied XC rider on the dh forum.....nice!!


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> so a dissatisfied XC rider on the dh forum.....nice!!


As to your boxxer video, can you show me two other boxxers broken at that same point and time?

As to this post, I'm not an XC rider. If it makes you feel comfortable, then fine, but it's also been quite well known for years that you've worked for Marzocchi, which is why you even got to introduce unreleased forks, and why during their times of disastrous products across the board, you were busy spamming the forums by telling people they were FOS when they complained about their problems and the service problems. You were busy pulling Tom's line in the beginning of discrediting people when they complained about the crowns creaking, bushing slop, blown forks, and other problems, until fork after fork after fork came back and complaint after complaint came back and you or Tom couldn't deny it, so they you scurried away and avoided the threads at all costs.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

junktrunk said:


> As to your boxxer video, can you show me two other boxxers broken at that same point and time?
> 
> As to this post, I'm not an XC rider. If it makes you feel comfortable, then fine, but it's also been quite well known for years that you've worked for Marzocchi, which is why you even got to introduce unreleased forks, and why during their times of disastrous products across the board, you were busy spamming the forums by telling people they were FOS when they complained about their problems and the service problems. You were busy pulling Tom's line in the beginning of discrediting people when they complained about the crowns creaking, bushing slop, blown forks, and other problems, until fork after fork after fork came back and complaint after complaint came back and you or Tom couldn't deny it, so they you scurried away and avoided the threads at all costs.


Delusional wikipedia

Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions[1] in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible, for example, someone who thinks he or she is under police surveillance. In order for the diagnosis to be made auditory and visual hallucinations cannot be prominent, although olfactory or tactile hallucinations related to the content of the delusion may be present.[2]

get your facts strait.....

I HAVE NEVER WORKED FOR MARZOCCHI
I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN A CHECK FROM MARZOCCHI
I HAVE NEVER RECEIVED A FREE FORK OR SHOCK FROM MARZOCCHI
I HAVE NEVER TOLD ANYONE THERE WERE FOS WITH BUSHING SLOP

as for pre released pictures...I happen to be a Marz getting my fork serviced when they were releasing the 2010 line...I thought it would be cool to see some pictures of the new stuff and what they did to get rid of bushing slop.

FYI...Marz has always gave everyone in our area *exceptional* customer service. even stuff we should not have had warranty on. Guys in our area push the limits and many other *PRODUCTS* have failed but I am not posting about them....I have the dirt on many bicycle related products.

So you are in the industry??? what do you do??


----------



## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

Something to consider, is something I have to do for automotive, a part must either be obviously damaged beyond use OR SUFFER ZERO damage. 

Ie you nose case your 50ft gap crash, and the fork looks ok, then you go drop something small and the thing snaps and takes a core sample of your belly = not good.

Honestly I'd rather have something obviously fail during an extreme event so that it can't used again than have it be severely weakened with out me knowing it.


----------



## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

DeanH said:


> your completely ignoring the fact that NONE of the crashes were identical, and that the crashes that did break those 888s, would have broken ANY fork out there, or can you prove to me that a Boxxer will handle casing a 50ft gap ? i didnt see any of the fox40 riders case that gap either with the front, does that prove it can handle it ?


Any of you haters want to answer this question intelligently? All that's going on in this thread is "hurr durr 2 broke" (thanks captain obvious) but nobody seems to care about the crashes that broke them. You know, if we start seeing broken 888s being posted up, then there is a trend going on indicating that Marz is still failing at QC/design. Nobody can say for sure that they don't have these problems, but evidence for such claims is lacking :nono: How about reserving judgment until there is legitimate evidence of a problem? Here's a clue: breaking two in one day does not mean anything because of the nature of crashes that broke them :skep: If I break two X.9 derailleurs in a day but my friend's X.0 survives, does this mean that X.9s must be inherently weak?


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Delusional wikipedia
> 
> Delusional disorder is a psychiatric diagnosis denoting a psychotic mental disorder that is characterized by holding one or more non-bizarre delusions[1] in the absence of any other significant psychopathology. Non-bizarre delusions are fixed beliefs that are certainly and definitely false, but that could possibly be plausible, for example, someone who thinks he or she is under police surveillance. In order for the diagnosis to be made auditory and visual hallucinations cannot be prominent, although olfactory or tactile hallucinations related to the content of the delusion may be present.[2]
> 
> ...


Bullsh*t.


----------



## ride.like.u.got.a.pair (Oct 15, 2008)

junktrunk said:


> but it's also been quite well known for years that you've worked for Marzocchi, which is why you even got to introduce unreleased forks, and why during their times of disastrous products across the board, you were busy spamming the forums by telling people they were FOS when they complained about their problems and the service problems. You were busy pulling Tom's line in the beginning of discrediting people when they complained about the crowns creaking, bushing slop, blown forks, and other problems, until fork after fork after fork came back and complaint after complaint came back and you or Tom couldn't deny it, so they you scurried away and avoided the threads at all costs.


damn, thats gonna leave a mark......


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> so a dissatisfied XC rider on the dh forum.....nice!!


I had a defective 2005 Marz AM1 that had the TST problems and eventually the rebound damper blew up.

Besides, what does it say about Marz if people are busting their AM/FR forks by riding them in an XC fashion?


----------



## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

junktrunk said:


> If it makes you feel comfortable, then fine, but it's also been quite well known for years that you've worked for Marzocchi, which is why you even got to introduce unreleased forks, and why during their times of disastrous products across the board, you were busy spamming the forums by telling people they were FOS when they complained about their problems and the service problems. You were busy pulling Tom's line in the beginning of discrediting people when they complained about the crowns creaking, bushing slop, blown forks, and other problems, until fork after fork after fork came back and complaint after complaint came back and you or Tom couldn't deny it, so they you scurried away and avoided the threads at all costs.


I bet you can't find a single post where SMT told someone they were FOS when they complained about (now known) issues with Marz forks. Not like it would be hard to find, all his posts are right here on MTBR, including the supposed spamming, so let's see one :thumbsup: Sounds like someone else is FOS


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)




----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

junktrunk said:


> Bullsh*t.


sounds like you have nothing to back your claim, so you just retort to cuss words because you can't think of anything else.

*WAY TO GO*:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Those are the facts, jack


----------



## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

its just a few silly trolls that think its flamewars..

spewing crap all over cos they concluded that 1 brand, in this case Marz, are done and over cos 3 of their forks got busted up at the most extreme freeride event on the planet.-

they offer up their opinions as facts based on what they think they saw happen on a low res vid they watched online.

Fact- they troll and reply in inflamatory replies and post up more useless info that is based on their opinions and try to turn it around by pointing out if you dont agree, you must be stupid.

bravo


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

C S said:


> I bet you can't find a single post where SMT told someone they were FOS when they complained about (now known) issues with Marz forks. Not like it would be hard to find, all his posts are right here on MTBR, including the supposed spamming, so let's see one :thumbsup: Sounds like someone else is FOS


You go through his 40,000 posts.


----------



## jcook1989 (Mar 16, 2008)

Hum...

Actually managed to get through this whole thing.

Regardless of anything else this is definitely going to set Marzocchi back some. Having three of your latest production run of products fail in one of the biggest mountain biking events of the year is plain and simple bad PR.

I also think that if I were a Marzocchi engineer I would be pretty concerned about the reliability and safety of the product. I am not denying that these guys but more abuse on bike parts in a day then most people will do in a year but you do need to look at this objectively. It very well could be just a coincidence. Maybe all the guys on 888s just wrecked harder then the other guys. Maybe they just had some really sh*tty luck. But could it also not be coincidence? Could there really be something wrong? Could their be a reason that 3 of these forks failed catastrophically in one event? I really hope, as a consumer, that some one is working pretty hard over at Marzocchi to figure out what went wrong with these forks.

Also found a better video of the canyon gap nose case and he was definitely off the bike at impact.

At 2:08.


----------



## cheloco (May 10, 2004)

You guys also have to have in consideration that Marz. forks are usually use in Rampages more that any other fork. So for that reason there are more chances to have more problems than other brands. But really, who cares, no one of us will push a fork to that extreme riding conditions.


----------



## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> anyone ever heard the saying; "_if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck....then it must be a duck_"....?
> 
> Marz 2008=duck, Marz 2009=duck, Marz 2010/11= granted, a bit early to tell, but it sure is LOOKING LIKE A DUCK......


I KNEW I had seen that color green somewhere before!


----------



## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

Wow this thread got full of hatin'

I thought about a real impact I've had on my 888. I nosed a 30 footer at Winter Park (yes the jumps on upper Rain Maker are that large). My 888 took my 205 pounds, bottomed out hard and its fine.

Nothing like the Rampage, but still a pretty significant (realistic) hit. Can it take that repeatedly? Well I hope so; but I also hope to never find out, that was a very sketchy landing.


----------



## toowacky (May 24, 2005)

NorKal said:


> I KNEW I had seen that color green somewhere before!


LOL in thread full of fail (both product and posting) and success (trolling and flaming).

And I'm not even viewing the Chumba forum!

The only thing I wonder is how much a contributing factor platform pedals are in these manufacturer specific failures, or if a DW engineered tubeless setup could have helped prevent them.


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

toowacky said:


> LOL in thread full of fail (both product and posting) and success (trolling and flaming).
> 
> And I'm not even viewing the Chumba forum!
> 
> The only thing I wonder is how much a contributing factor platform pedals are in these manufacturer specific failures, or if a DW engineered tubeless setup could have helped prevent them.


Nothing to do with it. However single pivot bikes would not have caused their forks to fail in such a way. + I think that on the drops where this happened, there were more Canon photogs than Nikon (Nikon photogs cause the riders to fly better).

Do the Deeeeewwwww!!!


----------



## CrustyOne (Oct 29, 2007)

junktrunk said:


> You go through his 40,000 posts.


So you attack someone and make unsubstantiated claims about them, then when called on it you make it clear that you have'nt even checked?

I think ill go make a new entry in the wiki definition for idiot


----------



## jhazard (Aug 16, 2004)

ride.like.u.got.a.pair said:


> here's some logic for you, free of charge too since i feel bad for ya :thumbsup: ;
> 
> THE FACT THAT THE TWO CRASHES WERE NOT THE SAME, YET THE STANCHIONS SNAPPED IN THE SAME AREA........oh my, could we be on to something here......wowsers!


Uh... that's not logic. Really, it's not. Before you continue to rant and blather for 5 more pages, you should read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

*Correlation does not imply causation*

"Correlation does not imply causation" is a phrase used in science and statistics to emphasize that correlation between two variables does not automatically imply that one causes the other (though correlation is necessary for causation and can indicate possible causes or areas for further investigation).[1][2]

*Here's where you've been coming from:*
The opposite belief, correlation proves causation, is a logical fallacy by which two events that occur together are claimed to have a cause-and-effect relationship.


----------



## MTB_prodigy (Jun 16, 2007)

xcoffmanx said:


> *Confused* You stated that the 40's have problems but these problems are not exactly related to a new fork out of the factory. This issues that are stated are related to rebuilds. So you are actually saying the 40's dont have problems unless rebuilt improperly?
> 
> -Mike


I blew my 40 twice. Out of the factory and after the rebuild. The end caps were at a 45 degree angle


----------



## Iceman2058 (Mar 1, 2007)

People need to stop using the words "science" and "wikipedia" in the same sentence. Wikipedia is just a collection of opinions expressed with less spelling mistakes than on other forums.


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

lol, notice how the haters always skirt the issue of the crashes and always resort back to "you idiot 2 marzocchis broke they must be evil" using a bit of incorrect physics and profanity to back them up?


----------



## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

wow thid thread is rediculous, full of idiots saying things that dont make sense, and for what reason? Just go ride on what ever fork you want, if you dont like the new 888's becasue marzocchi rigged them to blow up on people fine, but dont be a dumbass and ***** at people because you don't like them, because oh no 2 broke in one day...

Just go ride your bike, and ride whatever fork you want, whatever fork you feel safe on, but you dont need to try to convince the world that marzocchi want to kill everyone with bike forks. Everyone has opinions. Jusst please let this thread die!


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

junktrunk said:


> Bullsh*t.


You think SMT is a Marzocchi-sponsored pro rider?

:band:


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Quarashi said:


> You think SMT is a Marzocchi-sponsored pro rider?
> 
> :band:


honestly...being out there at the Red Bull Rampage I wouldn't want to be a sponsored rider....TV does it no justice.....the jumps and stuff are absolutely huge. Even the small stuff is 30 foot drops and 30 to 40 foot gaps.

The icon drop....most of the pros looked scared....just staying still as they dropped....it was that big....and then Zink pulls the 360 - he is absolutely nuts. He even told me he thought he had a slight concussion on the first attempt when he crashed.


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Bikesair said:


> Somebody didn't pass physics!


So you don't gain speed while falling through the air on huge drops or step downs? Tell that to the guys hitting the icon sender at walking speed and landing fast enough to clear the massive step up directly after it.


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

Yeah, there's alot of flaming going on in here which certainly isn't what I intended by starting the thread. I honestly just wanted to hear your guys' opinions. Calling each other names and **** can't possibly accomplish anything productive. I wasn't trying to start a flame war. I noticed that all of the same model broke, so I wanted to hear what others thought. If someone attacks me or flames me then of course I'm going to respond negatively, but if you take time to notice, I never once claimed that these forks were junk, I simply stated that 3 of the same model was a little alarming.

There's no point in posting if you're not going to consider the opinions of others. Of course we're all going to post our views, but really none of us have any way of actually knowing whether or not other forks are actually more reliable considering the 888's in question are still prototypes. I, for one, have taken the opinions of a few in this thread seriously and I don't necessarily believe that 888's are bad forks or that others are inherently better, but I don't believe that I'll buy any in the near future and I certainly wouldn't be surprised to hear or witness more negative points about the 888's.

Oh and I never once said that hitting a totally flat double is going to make you gain speed, but hitting a drop or huge step down is certainly going to make you gain speed as you fall towards the landing. It's the same thing as jumping off of a cliff into a lake, the lack of resistance while airborne coupled with gravitational pull is going to cause you to accelerate as you fall. How is that so hard to understand? For a bunch of dudes that supposedly ride DH and FR it doesn't seem that you hit alot of drops.


----------



## Archi-Magus (Feb 22, 2010)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Further more......DH racers never would deliver that force,....a gap of about 40 to 50 feet with a verticle drop of 30 to 40....


So traveling 35 mph through the air off of a huge kicker is somehow going to create more force than traveling the exact same speed through a rock garden? Speed is speed man, force is equal to mass times acceleration regardless of what you're doing at the time.


----------



## altadank (Mar 19, 2006)

junktrunk said:


> I believe the color of the fork to be the biggest factor in the failures.


yeahman....never seen those green fork(s) snap. or mauve neither


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Archi-Magus said:


> So traveling 35 mph through the air off of a huge kicker is somehow going to create more force than traveling the exact same speed through a rock garden? Speed is speed man, force is equal to mass times acceleration regardless of what you're doing at the time.


let me explain it better....DH racers going downhill through rock gardens at 35 mph

is less force

then a guy traveling at 35 mph hitting a lip but then you have to add the added speed when they are dropping 25 to 50 feet

there is more force because gravity adds to the speed they are traveling


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> So you don't gain speed while falling through the air on huge drops or step downs? Tell that to the guys hitting the icon sender at walking speed and landing fast enough to clear the massive step up directly after it.


What they were referring to was your incredibadly wrong guestimation on how much speed you gain on the Y axis when coming off a 50ft drop.


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

Archi-Magus said:


> So traveling 35 mph through the air off of a huge kicker is somehow going to create more force than traveling the exact same speed through a rock garden? Speed is speed man, force is equal to mass times acceleration regardless of what you're doing at the time.


In a rock garden the force of impact is dissipated through many relatively small hits, on a drop it is dissipated in that one big landing hit. Not a good idea to get all physicist on us. It's hard enough to account for all the variables in a real world environment, even harder when you're a troll watching shaky youtube videos.


----------



## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Quarashi said:


> Oh god now someone's going to go bump that thread.
> 
> I should make a dramatic reconstruction of that thread, need crampons!


AHHhh, that reminds me! I knew there something productive to do today!:thumbsup:


----------



## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

blue109 said:


> gee must have been on a fox....
> 
> on a side note, anyone see what brand seat that was that broke off....id hate for that to happen to me on my local trails.......


ROFLMAO!!!:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## Tim F. (May 22, 2006)

Uncle Cliffy said:


>


I think that guy looks like Bob Mc Timibers!:thumbsup:


----------



## suicidebomber (Feb 10, 2007)

Quarashi said:


> You think SMT is a Marzocchi-sponsored pro rider?
> 
> :band:


Marzocchi loves pirates.


----------



## DucJ (Aug 14, 2009)

:incazzato: You'd think that Marz. was building I.E.D's reading through this...
A few of their forks broke..BFD
Peoples taking this way too serious for not being involved in it..


----------



## misterpeanut (Mar 24, 2010)

The only thing wrong with Marzocchi in the past was reliability (as in seals and dampning), but what about all the bad dampners in the 2010 Boxxers. You could call Rock Shox and ask them a question about the dampner and they would ask for you name and address and send new one.

What about the Mavic Deemax that blew up on Matti's bike this year when it hit that tree. Oh and the one that got folded at Rampage and these aren't the only two Deemax's that I've seen destroyed this year. Big deal! Strange **** happens.

What about the 951 that got the h/t ripped off.... actually the two 951's.

Whateve, I'm over it, but you guys can keep beating your drum/deadhorse.


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

Pulled my new 888 out of the box last night. That makes 4 Marzocchis I own at the moment. Looks badass, and one of the stickers on it says "3 year warranty". Any other manufacturers have 3 year warranties on their forks? I'd say it's likely the riders who destroyed those forks are already back on Marzocchi forks, sponsored or not, but that's just a hunch. Glad nobody got seriously F'd up. Those dudes have more balls than sense.


----------



## texasflood (Aug 6, 2007)

misterpeanut said:


> The only thing wrong with Marzocchi in the past was reliability (as in seals and dampning), but what about all the bad dampners in the 2010 Boxxers. You could call Rock Shox and ask them a question about the dampner and they would ask for you name and address and send new one.
> 
> What about the Mavic Deemax that blew up on Matti's bike this year when it hit that tree. Oh and the one that got folded at Rampage and these aren't the only two Deemax's that I've seen destroyed this year. Big deal! Strange **** happens.
> 
> ...


....not sure how any of that is relevant to the original posters comments/questions..


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

When is the event scheduled to be released?


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

DeerhillOG said:


> When is the event scheduled to be released?


I suppose that would have been last weekend when it was streamed live.


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Hard to believe it's not going to be televised at some point with all the top notch coverage.. it won't be on Versus?


----------



## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

lifer said:


> Pulled my new 888 out of the box last night. That makes 4 Marzocchis I own at the moment. Looks badass, and one of the stickers on it says "3 year warranty". Any other manufacturers have 3 year warranties on their forks? I'd say it's likely the riders who destroyed those forks are already back on Marzocchi forks, sponsored or not, but that's just a hunch. Glad nobody got seriously F'd up. Those dudes have more balls than sense.


Rockshox have a 3 year warranty. They are fast with turnaround time too.


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

lifer said:


> Pulled my new 888 out of the box last night. That makes 4 Marzocchis I own at the moment. Looks badass, and one of the stickers on it says "3 year warranty". Any other manufacturers have 3 year warranties on their forks? I'd say it's likely the riders who destroyed those forks are already back on Marzocchi forks, sponsored or not, but that's just a hunch. Glad nobody got seriously F'd up. Those dudes have more balls than sense.


Can you kindly post your out of the box review in the reviews section to preserve the legitimacy and consistency of mtbr?


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

junktrunk said:


> Can you kindly post your out of the box review in the reviews section to preserve the legitimacy and consistency of mtbr?


I'll post a review after I put a couple thousand miles on it:thumbsup:


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Then it won't be valid. You first have to post "initial thoughts" and then give it 5 chilis before you even remove it from the box. It's only fair.


----------



## roguebuilder (Jun 6, 2008)

DeerhillOG said:


> Hard to believe it's not going to be televised at some point with all the top notch coverage.. it won't be on Versus?


http://www.redbull.com/cs/Satellite/...21242898206249

"Event highlights will air on NBC's World of Adventure Sports on Sunday, November 14th at 3-4pm Eastern"

...not sure how in depth this will be if it happens.

----------------------------------------------------

As to the original question of Marz quality... It doesn't matter how many forks break in a day. It matters how they break. It matters if they break causing a wreck, or as a result of a wreck. to judge the quality of a fork based on the number broken in a comp rather than looking at the individual causes is a baseless opinion made without any common sense plain and simple.

Maybe Marz does have a strength issue. I'm just not sure nose casing a 60 foot canyon gap is really a legitimate way of coming to the conclusion that they have a weak spot in their stanchions. Landing a move like that and having them bend or break causing a crash would be different.


----------



## ccspecialized (Dec 30, 2008)

roguebuilder said:


> Maybe Marz does have a strength issue. I'm just not sure nose casing a 60 foot canyon gap is really a legitimate way of coming to the conclusion that they have a weak spot in their stanchions. Landing a move like that and having them bend or break causing a crash would be different.


like the one that broke on the hip jump? He landed that pretty straight in the live feed


----------



## roguebuilder (Jun 6, 2008)

^^^ Yes, possibly like that one. All I've seen is a dusty shot from behind that hasn't given me a clear view of the whole crash and it's order of events in regards to the fork. If he in fact landed straight, and the fork broke before he turned his wheel, I may question durability. Has there been a real clear video or pics posted from the front view of that incident? I'd like to see them.

I also have somehow missed shots or video of the bent fork. (bending, not aftermath)

As stated, maybe Marz does have an issue. The canyon gap; however, is thrown out in my evaluation.

If it turns out that one fork broke in a questionable manner, that would be a lot different (and more compelling in one's argument over Marz strength) than a blanket statement like... 3 forks broke in a day = crap.


----------



## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

Went downhilling this weekend and as far as I am aware, no forks or bikes were broken but three people ended up in hospital. Without bothering to go into any detailed analysis of the crashes, the injuries sustained, the skills of the riders, level of armour worn or how many beers I had on saturday night, I would put it to you all that humans are crappier than bikes. :madman:


----------



## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

The Orange Prophet said:


> Went downhilling this weekend and as far as I am aware, no forks or bikes were broken but three people ended up in hospital. Without bothering to go into any detailed analysis of the crashes, the injuries sustained, the skills of the riders, level of armour worn or how many beers I had on saturday night, I would put it to you all that humans are crappier than bikes. :madman:


I haven't gotten any titanium or carbon fiber upgrades myself. Does that mean I should just quit while I'm ahead?


----------



## FA-Q (Jun 10, 2008)

Pro riders who push the limits and come up short on 60 footers break parts, no matter what brand they're riding. Quit trolling, STFU and ride.:nono:


----------



## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

junktrunk said:


> Can you kindly post your out of the box review in the reviews section to preserve the legitimacy and consistency of mtbr?


Still trolling with nothing useful to post? Didn't you just get kicked off Ridemonkey? 
Fahn

EDIT- Just found your video. But of course, you're not riding.





G4 Duty Free- Super Big Junk Trunk - watch more funny videos


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

LarryFahn said:


> Still trolling with nothing useful to post? Didn't you just get kicked off Ridemonkey?
> Fahn
> 
> EDIT- Just found your video. But of course, you're not riding.
> ...


too funny


----------



## Bikesair (Feb 20, 2006)

FA-Q said:


> Pro riders who push the limits and come up short on 60 footers break parts, no matter what brand they're riding. Quit trolling, STFU and ride.:nono:


Pro riders push the limits and come up short on 60 footers TOO break parts. How else are we going to know where the need improving : )


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> Still trolling with nothing useful to post? Didn't you just get kicked off Ridemonkey?
> Fahn
> 
> EDIT- Just found your video. But of course, you're not riding.


No ridemonkey for me, detective *******.

"Pull up, pull up! You're over 3 bills and trying to huck a poorly designed spot with a landing area built right next to a tree!"


----------



## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

I've got the 07 888 rc2x and love it. I'd consider the 2010-2011 888, but not the Ti one. I weigh 240 and don't like the lighter is better attitude that DH is going in. I see a lot of Trek sessions with dented down tubes and think back to the days of '00-'04. The bikes could be ridden off of 8' drops to bad wrecks. You'd be on your way to the ER and your bike was still in riding condition. Today though I see bikes that are 38lbs and lighter and wonder what they're going to handle. They keep pushing the prices up and the weight down. The race mentality and lighter is better thinking is making me feel that the future of DH and FR is losing it's roots. How long will a sub 38lb DH bike handle a 200+lb rider? Will it last the 4 seasons that my 43lb Sunday did (and will last at least one more)? I agree with the other guy who said that the bikes need to be separated. A DH bike for racing should be sold for that reason only. Then the rest should be built up for the riders who get out once a week and want to ride and have fun. Not think about how much lighter our bike is or "Will it take this drop without that down tube ripping apart where that HUGE dent is". Ttyl, Fahn

To the Troll-

Strike one for me! Was it PinkTrike you were just kicked off of? Do a search and you'll find a vid of the three of us hitting it our first couple times. It wasn't our best style for sure, but we were having a BLAST on it! Not to mention the other 20 or so times I did it a lot smoother. I also took off 55lbs this past winter and am riding better than ever! For a three foot drop, we definitely stepped up the technicality of it. We thought of cutting the tree out, but then everyone will try to hit it and lead to more injuries. The key is to go straight and keep it straight. We're not called The Widowmaker Trail Crew for nuthin'. Can you ride it? Didn't think so.:winker:


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

There is wisdom in a sane rider to bike weight ratio, for a given purpose.


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

LarryFahn said:


> I've got the 07 888 rc2x and love it. I'd consider the 2010-2011 888, but not the Ti one. I weigh 240 and don't like the lighter is better attitude that DH is going in. I see a lot of Trek sessions with dented down tubes and think back to the days of '00-'04. The bikes could be ridden off of 8' drops to bad wrecks. You'd be on your way to the ER and your bike was still in riding condition. Today though I see bikes that are 38lbs and lighter and wonder what they're going to handle. They keep pushing the prices up and the weight down. The race mentality and lighter is better thinking is making me feel that the future of DH and FR is losing it's roots. How long will a sub 38lb DH bike handle a 200+lb rider? Will it last the 4 seasons that my 43lb Sunday did (and will last at least one more)? I agree with the other guy who said that the bikes need to be separated. A DH bike for racing should be sold for that reason only. Then the rest should be built up for the riders who get out once a week and want to ride and have fun. Not think about how much lighter our bike is or "Will it take this drop without that down tube ripping apart where that HUGE dent is". Ttyl, Fahn
> 
> To the Troll-
> 
> Strike one for me! Was it PinkTrike you were just kicked off of? Do a search and you'll find a vid of the three of us hitting it our first couple times. It wasn't our best style for sure, but we were having a BLAST on it! Not to mention the other 20 or so times I did it a lot smoother. I also took off 55lbs this past winter and am riding better than ever! For a three foot drop, we definitely stepped up the technicality of it. We thought of cutting the tree out, but then everyone will try to hit it and lead to more injuries. The key is to go straight and keep it straight. We're not called The Widowmaker Trail Crew for nuthin'. Can you ride it? Didn't think so.:winker:


please post video here....would love to see it


----------



## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

*from day 3*



roguebuilder said:


> Has there been a real clear video or pics posted from the front view of that incident?.


2;03-2;20

First clip illustrates the size best. Hopefully these guys were in the same spot for the finals. Think the crash would have been released by now though.


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

Poor ramp design=/= technicality


----------



## CrustyOne (Oct 29, 2007)

Interweb experts are funny


----------



## RYAN E (Jan 11, 2006)

Jim311 said:


> Rockshox have a 3 year warranty. They are fast with turnaround time too.


Rock Shox has a 2 year warranty.


----------



## RYAN E (Jan 11, 2006)

Im assuming 5%< of people on this post have actually ridden the new 888.


----------



## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

RYAN E said:


> Im assuming 5%< of people on this post have actually ridden the new 888.


Why would anyone want to use a product before forming a strong opinion on it? :skep: It's much easier to just watch a few internet videos and use your super duper internet investigation and engineer skills to alert the masses about your discovery.

In full disclosure, I love my 2010 888 ti


----------



## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

eabos said:


> Why would anyone want to use a product before forming a strong opinion on it? :skep: It's much easier to just watch a few internet videos and use your super duper internet investigation and engineer skills to alert the masses about your discovery.
> 
> In full disclosure, I love my 2010 888 ti


u dont need 2 go 2 skool 2 b n inernet engeneer eiver


----------



## singletrackin (Oct 15, 2004)

i think all of the haters should join forces and design and build the perfect fork that will be indestructible, super light, last forever, and be very inexpensive.


----------



## RYAN E (Jan 11, 2006)

eabos said:


> Why would anyone want to use a product before forming a strong opinion on it? :skep: It's much easier to just watch a few internet videos and use your super duper internet investigation and engineer skills to alert the masses about your discovery.
> 
> In full disclosure, I love my 2010 888 ti


Haha! I also love my 2010 888ti and 2010 4x and 2011 44micro ti and ROCO


----------



## junktrunk (Apr 17, 2010)

If it wasn't the fork's fault, then the riders and mechs and even zoke should have allowed them the flexibility to use an avalanche, or something similar. The damage done to zoke's already bad reputation is infinite.


----------



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

junktrunk said:


> If it wasn't the fork's fault, then the riders and mechs and even zoke should have allowed them the flexibility to use an avalanche, or something similar. The damage done to zoke's already bad reputation is infinite.


You are the most negative a$$hole to come across these boards in a while. Why are you such a troll? Not enough love from mom?


----------



## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

whodaphuck said:


> You are the most negative a$$hole to come across these boards in a while. Why are you such a troll? Not enough love from mom?


Maybe it was daddy?


----------



## thrasher_s (Oct 5, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> any fork hitting the way they did would collapse...period...any fork....


Right. It's the Marzocchi riders that suck, not the equipment.


----------



## lifer (Feb 5, 2004)

Sounds like a couple of 14 year olds with too much time on their hands have made following this thread any further pointless.


----------



## Pwshadow (Sep 5, 2010)

True the marzocchi stanchions broke under a massive impact, but at least they dont wear out under normal use like a Fox.


----------



## CrustyOne (Oct 29, 2007)

:smallviolin:


----------



## Tillers_Rule (Sep 11, 2004)

Archi-Magus said:


> They probably gain 5 - 10 mph while in the air.


Do bullets go faster the farther they get from the gun barrel to?


----------



## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

Tillers_Rule said:


> Do bullets go faster the farther they get from the gun barrel to?


They actually do, as the bullet exits the barrel there is reduced surface friction and for a split second until the gases propel it faster. So a bullet does accelerate for a short period just as it exits the barrel.


----------



## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

giantsaam said:


> They actually do, as the bullet exits the barrel there is reduced surface friction and for a split second until the gases propel it faster. So a bullet does accelerate for a short period just as it exits the barrel.


Chuck Norris accelerates off of dirt jumps faster than a bullet leaving a gun barrel.


----------



## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

NorKal said:


> Chuck Norris accelerates off of dirt jumps faster than a bullet leaving a gun barrel.


Chuck Norris doesn't accelerate off of the jumps. The jumps accelerate off of Chuck Norris.


----------



## frorider (Apr 2, 2005)

in Russia, jump accelerates YOU.


----------



## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

Amazing fail. Whole new classifications of fail are required for this.

Isn't the point of running prototypes at an event like Rampage to put new products to real world tests in the extreme? Like F1 racing. *No matter how it happened, the fact that it happened SHOULD cause some questions.* Of course the answers to those questions may or may not reveal something that needs further attention. If even posing the question in the first place is "trolling," then maybe we have all come to the point where we will buy whatever is put in front of us, just because that is what good consumers do.

Anybody ever seen the very first SNL fake ad for a razor with 3 blades? "The first shaves you close, the second closer -- and the third because you believed the second!" It ends with "because you'll believe anything."


----------



## giantsaam (Dec 10, 2006)

frorider said:


> in Russia, jump accelerates YOU.


I thought that was vodka.


----------



## BIKESerFUN (Sep 5, 2007)

Someone please flip the MTBR switch from "On" to "Off ", please. There comes a time when enough is enough. It's like the Vietnam of forums. We came in with a good purpose, but now we're just burning **** down for the hell of it.


----------



## Triple8Sol (Aug 21, 2009)

Oh good, this retarded thread is still going strong. For a sec I was worried that this _wasn't_ turning into the new PB.


----------

