# subaru vs jeep wrangler 4 door



## maxibrobro (May 17, 2009)

i am about to get a new car, 
subaru vs jeep????????????


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## sunnyside (Feb 26, 2006)

10 mpg and about 8 grand.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Subaru, by a long ways.

J.


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## Brunner (Apr 25, 2009)

a jeep is alot cooler than a subie... even if it is a 4 door


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

My Jeep gets 19-20mpg on the HWY with 37" tires. A stock Jeep will get 22-24 mpg.

I love my Jeep.


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## mtnbkaz (Feb 2, 2004)

As someone who currently owns both an Outback XT Ltd and a 4-dr Wrangler, I'd have to say "Jeep by a long ways" but it really depends on where you live and where you want to go.

- The Jeep is real 4WD - I can't get to a lot of trailheads with the Subie. The Outback has good ground clearance but no low gear and is still a car and doesn't articulate well on rocks. I've been on many steep rocky roads where I have to burn some clutch on the Subie to get over an obstacle and not stall out. A low gear is a much better solution on that type of terrain. But if you just drive on dirt roads and not on rutted, rocky mountain roads, the Subaru would probably be fine.

- They get about the same gas mileage in town. On the highway, the Subaru does better, unless I have bikes on the roof. Then the Subaru and Jeep get the same mileage on the highway too. I have a hitch rack for the Jeep so it doesn't take a mileage hit with bikes like the roof rack on the Subaru. To be fair to the Outback, I get better mileage when traveling in rural towns. But where I live, there is a red-light at least every quarter-mile. Constant stop/go in an AWD yields really poor mileage. If I can get up to speed and hold it there, I do much better. The Jeep seems to get the same mileage no matter where or how I drive it.

- Turbo Subarus require premium gas, Jeep can save a couple bucks on regular.

- The Jeep can haul more gear. I guess with a roof box on the Subaru, the gear capacity is about the same. But of course you can always put the roof box on the Jeep too.

- The Subaru is more expensive. Especially since you can get some screaming deals on Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep products right now.

- Maintenance on the Subaru is much more expensive. The aftermarket for Jeeps is incredible. It's so big that parts are much cheaper than any other vehicle I've owned.

- Subaru has much nicer interior & creature comforts. I personally don't care so much about that anymore. My old WRX broke me of that - really crappy interior but so fun to drive that I stopped caring about luxury stuff. 

- The Jeep has the option to go topless & doorless. I haven't been able to do that on my Subaru

I could go on but that's enough.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Check out a new forester, even better ground clearance, good seating-dimentions (rear seats are actually usefull!), cargo is not bad, etc. I'm not sure how many "trailheads" are down crazy roads that you need a jeep to reach, but I've not encountered many in 15 years of riding. The new forester is a lot more SUV-like than previous. Get the turbo-model if you need to go fast. Get it with a hitch rack (I have one on my wrx) to cut down on fuel costs.


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## utarch00 (Mar 20, 2009)

Subaru


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Isn't Jeep owned by Chrysler? If so, I'd view that as a "wait and see" issue.

J.


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## ClappR (May 7, 2009)

I have an '05 Fozzy XT with springs, uppipe, downpipe and AccessPort. It is a freaking blast. Just different than what you do with Jeep. I say go Jeep. Most who do seem to love them. You should be able to find a great deal right now. They are going to be part of Fiat, basically and being the most profitable name in the Chrysler portfolio, they are going to be utilized regardless of who buys them. That is my opinion anyway.


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

Jeep. Every single time for every single application. 

Selling my Jeep was the stupidest thing I have ever done.


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## mtnbkaz (Feb 2, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I'm not sure how many "trailheads" are down crazy roads that you need a jeep to reach, but I've not encountered many in 15 years of riding.


You've been riding in AZ for 15 years and have never encountered a dirt road impassable to a Subaru? I'm not going to tell you where my favorite spots are then.  I'm not talking about dedicated 4WD rock-crawlers here. There are a lot of roads where a low gear is useful - especially remote hiking trailheads. And a lot more where a full-size spare would be nice (strangely missing from Subaru's). I've had to limp out of remote spots on that donut and it's not fun. Makes me nervous whenever I'm up on the North Rim 150 miles from nowhere.

Anyway, I still think my Jeep is the better tool in the shed for driving to remote areas. It fits my lifestyle better and the Subie has been relegated to light duty. Plus with the Jeep you start doing stuff like taking out-of-state relatives for a quick lap around Broken Arrow before lunch at Oak Creek. Much more fun than a Pink Jeep tour.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

There are some crazy deals on Jeeps right now.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mtnbkaz said:


> You've been riding in AZ for 15 years and have never encountered a dirt road impassable to a Subaru? I'm not going to tell you where my favorite spots are then.  I'm not talking about dedicated 4WD rock-crawlers here. There are a lot of roads where a low gear is useful - especially remote hiking trailheads. And a lot more where a full-size spare would be nice (strangely missing from Subaru's). I've had to limp out of remote spots on that donut and it's not fun. Makes me nervous whenever I'm up on the North Rim 150 miles from nowhere.
> 
> Anyway, I still think my Jeep is the better tool in the shed for driving to remote areas. It fits my lifestyle better and the Subie has been relegated to light duty. Plus with the Jeep you start doing stuff like taking out-of-state relatives for a quick lap around Broken Arrow before lunch at Oak Creek. Much more fun than a Pink Jeep tour.


No, I said I've been riding for 15 years, but I've been living in AZ for 8 or so. Lets see, Mt Elden Rd? No problem. Shultz Pass, no problem. There is a side-road on Shultz Pass where I sometimes can't make it the last 500 feet or so, but it's a camping spot and that's not a big deal. It's easy to reach the parking places. Pinal Peak? No problem. Around Prescott? No problem. Candy Mtn (White Mountains) I couldn't make it the last 1/8th of a mile up the road to the big camping spot, and so on. No real problems, no trailheads I couldn't get to. What's left? Maybe a couple of remote white-mountain areas I guess? The roads to the trailheads are usually graded at the leas.

I really don't know of any trailheads that start in whacked-out off-road areas. I'm a mountain biker, not a hiker. There are plenty of hikes I can do without going to crazy remote areas.

I have never needed any crazy ground clearance to get to California trailheads. Auburn, rockville, other bay-area desinations, Tahoe, trails off of Wentworth Springs/near Georgetown, Strawberry to highway 89, etc.

And this is with a WRX. An outback or forester would do much better.

Anyway, I didn't say that I have never encountered a dirt (or ice) road that is impassable, I said it's never affected my ability to do a ride. The thought that I need 4wd and some lifted truck to get to trailheads is rediculous, and there are plenty of mtbers besides me that prove it.

Probably less than 1% of the people around here in prescott need a truck for off-road or any other conditions.

I realize that nothing will work as well as a jeep, landcruiser or some other tricked out 4wd for real 4wd stuff, but the question is: Does the person considering the above vehicles REALLY do serious 4wd where that is necessary? A lot of people think they do, but a lot of people really do not. I've done lots of "serious 4wd" in humvees (and before that in 4runners) to know what it's about, and again most people really aren't doing that kind of stuff. If you really do it, then more power to you.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*seems to me...*



Jayem said:


> No, I said I've been riding for 15 years, but I've been living in AZ for 8 or so. Lets see, Mt Elden Rd? No problem. Shultz Pass, no problem. There is a side-road on Shultz Pass where I sometimes can't make it the last 500 feet or so, but it's a camping spot and that's not a big deal. It's easy to reach the parking places. Pinal Peak? No problem. Around Prescott? No problem. Candy Mtn (White Mountains) I couldn't make it the last 1/8th of a mile up the road to the big camping spot, and so on. No real problems, no trailheads I couldn't get to. What's left? Maybe a couple of remote white-mountain areas I guess? The roads to the trailheads are usually graded at the leas.
> 
> I really don't know of any trailheads that start in whacked-out off-road areas. I'm a mountain biker, not a hiker. There are plenty of hikes I can do without going to crazy remote areas.
> 
> ...


... if the tralhead is down a road that is too much for a car, wouldn't you rather ride your bike to the trailhead than drive?

Just sayin'...


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## oops (May 28, 2005)

I'd say Subaru since I don't think Jeep Wranglers should have 4 doors.


but then again going from my 81 CJ7 to my 93YJ, I didn't think they should have a molded plastic dash or a/c...kinda miss them both


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## andyt (Apr 9, 2009)

pointerDixie214 said:


> Jeep. Every single time for every single application.


except when you want to put something in the trunk.

The jeep is a great off roader no doubt, but not practical for anything else. They handle terrible, bad on gas, drafty, bumpy, noisy no space to swing a cat, need I go on.

If you want to do anything other than drive off road with a driver and one passenger, you should get the Subaru.

Like another poster said, if the last 500yds is so rough a forester can't get along it, maybe you should be riding by that point?

And I agree with the guy who posted immediately above this. The jeep don't look right with four doors. Looks like a mid life crisis on wheels.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

andyt said:


> except when you want to put something in the trunk.
> 
> The jeep is a great off roader no doubt, but not practical for anything else. They handle terrible, bad on gas, drafty, bumpy, noisy no space to swing a cat, need I go on.
> 
> ...


I disagree with this but that aside it comes down to what you want. Suby's have really impressed me in thier off-road ability and snow handling. Jeeps are also great, newer ones really feel a lot different and they get good gas mileage, quiet, smooth etc. If you don't have plaes to off-road, don't live where snow is OFTEN deep the subie might be a better thought. However if I was making the choice between those 2 Jeep all the way, you can really do, see a lot with them. Be careful though.... like biking they can become an addiction


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## andyt (Apr 9, 2009)

Funrover said:


> newer ones really feel a lot different and they get good gas mileage, quiet, smooth etc.


I could take back some of what I said. I only have experience of Jeeps up to 2000. The newer ones may well be a little more refined.


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## frederikn (Nov 27, 2008)

I have a Subaru and i will never ride another brand.. It is a very reliable and great quality car!!


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## Brunner (Apr 25, 2009)

i agree that jeeps can be an addiction... i had a 94 wrangler and had a blast with it... missed it ever since i sold it. honestly i dont like the 4door jeep either but it would be alot more convienient if u have kids. im getting ready for a new vehicle myself and a jeep just might be what i go with. subarus are ugly and foreign... need i say more. in this economy someone that would pick a subaru over a jeep should be deported imo.

get the jeep!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

The NEWER 07+ Jeeps are waaay more refined. My Wrangler is super quiet and rides and drives great. They even get decent gas mileage. I get 20 mpg on the hwy with 37s and about 15-16 mog in town. My buddy still has stock tires and he gets about 23-24 mpg on the hwy and about 19-20 mpg in town. There is a TON of room in the 4 door. You can lay the rear seat down and sleep two people no problem. I put my bike in the back with the seat down all the time. There is even a kit to put a 3rd row seat in the 4 door... there is that much room behind the rear seat.



















Here is another pic of mine with my winter/offroad tires and wheels.


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## dnoyeb (Sep 23, 2007)

Foreign? I guess the Japanese don't buy Jeeps eh? Probably they should buy the Subarus and we should buy the Jeeps and the world will be a better place...

As for Ugly, I like it, but I have yet to date a woman that does :sad: 

I don't find either to be more reliable. I worked for Jeep and test drove lots but I have never owned one. I do own a Subaru though.


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

Get the Jeep, unless you want to look all smug in a butt ugly Sewbaru


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

dnoyeb said:


> Foreign? I guess the Japanese don't buy Jeeps eh? Probably they should buy the Subarus and we should buy the Jeeps and the world will be a better place...
> 
> As for Ugly, I like it, but I have yet to date a woman that does :sad:
> 
> I don't find either to be more reliable. I worked for Jeep and test drove lots but I have never owned one. I do own a Subaru though.


They have plenty of Japanese Jeep substitutes, and no, they do not buy as many Jeeps as some Americans buy sewbarus. I agree, the US would be a better place, and the world would be a worse place, if we all supported our own industries, but the laying off and closing of American factories continues. Sewbaru builds a screw driver factory over here, ships parts from the mother land for assembly in the US, and people, say, "My Sewbaru is built in America."

Don't feel bad, my wife says they are ugly too.


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## IvanLasston (Jul 10, 2006)

If this were a beauty contest go get an Audi or BMW AWD. Better yet, go get a Lamborghini or Porsche.

You are kidding yourself if you think that Jeeps are better looking than Subarus. They both have their appeal to people but you can't tell me a tall box is any better looking than a station wagon with a hood scoop. Guess what they are both ugly.

And if you were to really buy American go get a Ford - Jeeps are 82% American parts - and Ford isn't coming from a bum merger with a German company and going to another bum merger with an Italian company.
http://www.automotiveaddicts.com/inthenews/07-10-06.html

Now the question you have to ask is - how are you going to be using this vehicle? When I had only one vehicle I went with a SUV - as it could handle anything I threw at it plus move a bunch of stuff. So I wouldn't go get a 2 door Wrangler. My friend picked me up from the airport with his 2 door Wrangler and I ended up holding a 50 pound bag in my lap because you either had the back seat or cargo space but not both.

Reliability is another issue. Consumer Reports doesn't recommend any Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep due to reliability.
http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/05/what-does-the-chrysler-bankruptcy-mean-to-you.html

That being said - if you go with a Turbo Charged Subaru - parts are more expensive and turbos are better but they still run hot and the engines are quite complex. Just to fix an oil line to my turbo cost me big bucks - due to labor, not the part. There are Subarus that aren't turbo charged available if that is a concern.

There are certainly roads that a Jeep can go on that a Subaru cannot - the question is do are you really (really?) going to drive on those. And if so how often? I have an SUV for such occasions, but if I'm driving to go Skiing or Mountain Biking I find myself always hopping in my Subaru.

Oh and "Its Jeep thing you wouldn't understand" - isn't smug at all is it?


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## pointerDixie214 (Feb 10, 2009)

Jeep = Hummer recovery vehicle.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

pointerDixie214 said:


> Jeep = Hummer recovery vehicle.


Toyota FJ = Jeep recovery vehicle.

that was for Fast Eddy's benefit. 

Funny about how Japanese don't buy Jeeps. Funny thing is, there are tons of Jeeps Cherokees in Europe for some reason. Chrysler seems to have an unusually large footprint in Europe for an American brand. Yeah yeah, Ford... but Euro Fords don't have much in common with Fords here.


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

IvanLasston said:


> You are kidding yourself if you think that Jeeps are better looking than Subarus. They both have their appeal to people but you can't tell me a tall box is any better looking than a station wagon with a hood scoop. Guess what they are both ugly.


Men have found the Jeep to be good and tough looking for over 60 years, I see your sewbees have changed quite a bit each decade? The sewbee has as much appeal as a car built in the USSR 30 years ago.



IvanLasston said:


> Now the question you have to ask is - how are you going to be using this vehicle? When I had only one vehicle I went with a SUV - as it could handle anything I threw at it plus move a bunch of stuff. So I wouldn't go get a 2 door Wrangler. My friend picked me up from the airport with his 2 door Wrangler and I ended up holding a 50 pound bag in my lap because you either had the back seat or cargo space but not both.


You got me there, it definately is much more of a station wagon then a SUV or a Jeep  (a Jeep is not an SUV Mall Assault Vehicle)



IvanLasston said:


> Reliability is another issue. Consumer Reports doesn't recommend any Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep due to reliability.
> http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2009/05/what-does-the-chrysler-bankruptcy-mean-to-you.html


OOOHHH, CR, My favourite Propaganda report, I almost want to barf when some one uses a biased magazine to up their product. CR does not like diesels either, I love them and my JEEP CRD.



IvanLasston said:


> That being said - if you go with a Turbo Charged Subaru - parts are more expensive and turbos are better but they still run hot and the engines are quite complex. Just to fix an oil line to my turbo cost me big bucks - due to labor, not the part. There are Subarus that aren't turbo charged available if that is a concern.


Maybe they should not use such a crappy turbo??



IvanLasston said:


> There are certainly roads that a Jeep can go on that a Subaru cannot - the question is do are you really (really?) going to drive on those. And if so how often? I have an SUV for such occasions, but if I'm driving to go Skiing or Mountain Biking I find myself always hopping in my Subaru.


No argument there :thumbsup:, If I drive them roads just once, it is more times then I ever will in a sewbee


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## belowambient (May 17, 2008)

why do people on this forum buy the same two vehicles... i would expect more originality... what about a Lambo LM002 with a 480HP v-12?


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## IvanLasston (Jul 10, 2006)

flman said:


> Men have found the Jeep to be good and tough looking for over 60 years, I see your sewbees have changed quite a bit each decade? The sewbee has as much appeal as a car built in the USSR 30 years ago.












Yeah sure - "Men" find it rugged. Besides I claimed that both are ugly. Jeeps are military vehicles, Subarus best attempt to look good was to look like an Alfa Romeo which was also ugly. Now they just look like every other econo box out there. So you have already half way agreed with me. Now just admit that jeeps are just boxes on wheels and you and I will be all the way in agreement.



flman said:


> OOOHHH, CR, My favourite Propaganda report, I almost want to barf when some one uses a biased magazine to up their product. CR does not like diesels either, I love them and my JEEP CRD.


You are more than welcome to post all your links to the reliability of Jeeps. Otherwise its just your opinion vs CR data. I agree CR has its faults but there are plenty of other reports about long term reliability out there and most are negative.

Here is another one - JD Power 
https://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratin...and/sortcolumn-2/descending/page-#page-anchor



flman said:


> Maybe they should not use such a crappy turbo??


I said an oil line failed not the turbo. I was just giving the option of getting a normally aspirated engine on the Subaru if this is a concern. I would never trade in my Turbo especially living at 6000ft.

I am not going to get into a flame war with a Jeep fan boy. I have stated facts and given supporting links. If you read my post I pretty much said get a Jeep if its going to be your only vehicle and gave the pros and cons. You have attacked my statements and Subarus. Feel free to keep flaming but I won't answer a flame again. If you want to argue facts and points fine - otherwise feel free to wave the Jeep flag and I'll stay out of your way.


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## utarch00 (Mar 20, 2009)

Brunner said:


> i agree that jeeps can be an addiction... i had a 94 wrangler and had a blast with it... missed it ever since i sold it. honestly i dont like the 4door jeep either but it would be alot more convienient if u have kids. im getting ready for a new vehicle myself and a jeep just might be what i go with. subarus are ugly and foreign... need i say more. in this economy someone that would pick a subaru over a jeep should be deported imo.
> 
> get the jeep!


I am all about supporting the good ol USA, but why should I help the US car companies that put themselves in the situation they are in because of pure GREED. Make the Big Wigs give back the money they took in greed and maybe they would not be in the situation they are in.


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## bobdole (Mar 13, 2008)

i have a jeep but have looked at subarus (not driven or owned though)

even if you dont "offroad it out" its still quite a capable off road vehicle. 

Plusses to the jeep

1. Off road performance is great, can be setup to do whatever it is you want it to do.
2. Personally i think the interior has alot of room
3. Maintenance is ultra simple, parts are cheap when needed.
4. Simple design = less problems
5. Holds appearance, mine is an 04, i take care of it, looks near brand new.
6. Everything is oriented towards the driver.
7. Only holds 2 people + gear, and most people shy away from riding in jeeps, so you'll never have to drive on group outings!


Cons:
1. Loud as hell on the highway, or when being passed by large, loud things (youll never miss a cop/18wheeler/train coming though!)
2. Soft top can be troublesome and will wear.
3. Depending on the type of spare tire you have, good luck getting a bike rack. Only one ive seen succesfully used (that is still available and in production) is the MOPAR spare tire rack. Holds 2 bikes. You seriously need to get the "strengthened" tail gate if you are going to run a bike rack, lest ye bend your gate.
4. MPG can suck, duh.
5. Interior could be more comfortable?


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## utarch00 (Mar 20, 2009)

flman said:


> They have plenty of Japanese Jeep substitutes, and no, they do not buy as many Jeeps as some Americans buy sewbarus. I agree, the US would be a better place, and the world would be a worse place, if we all supported our own industries, but the laying off and closing of American factories continues. Sewbaru builds a screw driver factory over here, ships parts from the mother land for assembly in the US, and people, say, "My Sewbaru is built in America."
> 
> Don't feel bad, my wife says they are ugly too.


Subarus are built in the USA with labor from the USA. I am pretty sure that a fair number of parts on the new Jeeps come from overseas, Chyslers Parent Company is from Germany.


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

maxibrobro said:


> i am about to get a new car,
> subaru vs jeep????????????


Well, based on this thread you got lots of opinions, it is either the ugly and limited station wagon, or the go any where cool looking Jeep :thumbsup:

Even the SueBee guys admit the Jeep can do more, but it cant haul groceries like a station wagon can.

DON'T CALL MY JEEP AN SUV!!!! :nono:


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

IvanLasston said:


> Here is another one - JD Power
> http://www.jdpower.com/autos/rating...and/sortcolumn-2/descending/page-#page-anchor


Ivan, you cant go by a magazine, it is paid for by the advertisers, why do you think GM become truck of the year every year? Did you ever see the full page ad as you open the magazine?

Now, if I want to buy a bike or parts, MTBR is a review I can trust, it is not sponsored by advertisers, it is real people that have bought and tried the products.

Probably my worst bias about SueBees is, I live in an area where alot of people drive these things, they are mostly dorky people, no pun intended, but they drive them so slow, and if they are front of you on the road and you cant pass them, you'll wish you had a missle launcher. But if you like a Suebee with a boxer engine, that they take credit for, that was really used in Vdubs during ancient car history, more power to you bro...........


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## IvanLasston (Jul 10, 2006)

flman said:


> Ivan, you cant go by a magazine, it is paid for by the advertisers, why do you think GM become truck of the year every year? Did you ever see the full page ad as you open the magazine?
> 
> Now, if I want to buy a bike or parts, MTBR is a review I can trust, it is not sponsored by advertisers, it is real people that have bought and tried the products.
> 
> Probably my worst bias about SueBees is, I live in an area where alot of people drive these things, they are mostly dorky people, no pun intended, but they drive them so slow, and if they are front of you on the road and you cant pass them, you'll wish you had a missle launcher. But if you like a Suebee with a boxer engine, that they take credit for, that was really used in Vdubs during ancient car history, more power to you bro...........


Agreed - just like anything you have to take any review with a grain of salt. Now consumer reports are probably the least biased by advertisers - but it doesn't mean I agree with all their conclusions. In the end it is still people giving an opinon. But when there is data to support what they report and it is verifiable - such as reliability reports, then there really is nothing to argue. Yes, you can skew data any way you want - as they say "There are lies, damn lies, and statistics" but then you end up all paranoid and crazy so you have to pick something.

Even internet reviews and mtbr - usually people hop onto the internet to complain - not to give praise. Most internet reviews are slanted negative so I usually give more credence to the positive reviews on the internet but if there is a high ratio of bad to good then its probably not just 1 angry dude complaining.

Anyway I am agreeing with you on your point when it comes to reviews and advertisers.

Yes you can sterotype a lot of cars but just to be clear not all Subarus are slow. It's a lot easier to put a TOW missile on your Jeep than it is on my car, and more power to you clearing out those slow people - but being a subaru doesn't make my car slow. It does unfortunately make it ugly.


And lastly - I apologize - the Jeep is definitely not an SUV - it's that I own a Pathfinder so that is why I used the word SUV. Still a bone stock Pathfinder can go a lot of places and I have taken it there. I bought it for off road, camping, biking and skiing and have used it for all, and yes there are places that I've gone where the Subaru didn't have enough clearance. When I only had one choice I went utility. A 4 door jeep gets you space plus clearance - which was my choice when I had to decide. Now that I have both - I take the pathfinder when I want to really off-road and get way off the beaten path - I take the STI when I want to rally dirt and climb Pike's Peak.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

I would pick the Subaru in a heartbeat. Better mpg, more fun to drive (turbo 5/6 speed, AWD and twisty roads =  ) Its great in the snow and will take me to 99.99% of the places i need to go.

The only thing that would push me to get a jeep is if i was going to put a big lift kit and huge rubber on, but then again i think it wouldnt be a daily driver for me anymore, it would become more a "play" vehicle


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

kntr said:


> The NEWER 07+ Jeeps are waaay more refined. My Wrangler is super quiet and rides and drives great. They even get decent gas mileage. I get 20 mpg on the hwy with 37s and about 15-16 mog in town[/IMG]


If you need a jeep (for technical off-road), you need a jeep, but that milege sucks.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

utarch00 said:


> Subarus are built in the USA with labor from the USA. I am pretty sure that a fair number of parts on the new Jeeps come from overseas, Chyslers Parent Company is from Germany.


Well, some are. I'd suspect at least the STI still comes from Japan. My WRX was made in Japan (when they were making regular Imprezas in the US). Current WRXs may come from Japan.


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## ReD_tomato (Jun 25, 2006)

Subaru WRX STI....
or
Mitsubishi Evolution...


:thumbsup:


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

IvanLasston said:


> Yes you can sterotype a lot of cars but just to be clear not all Subarus are slow.


I doubt any of them are slow, just the majority of the Suby drivers in my area, you know the type, that drive 15 MPH under the speed limit and hit there brakes at every turn as if certain death is imminent  The way they drive, they would be safe in a shopping cart.

A WRX driver, I would doubt they are slow?

I thought the Old Brats were pretty cool, but that new out back PU, no way!


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

ReD_tomato said:


> Subaru WRX STI....
> or
> Mitsubishi Evolution...
> 
> :thumbsup:


Nah i would buy an 05-06ish WRX wagon and with the money i saved over the sti id throw it into upgrades. Then i could haul stuff and haul ass! lol


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## IvanLasston (Jul 10, 2006)

spazzy said:


> Nah i would buy an 05-06ish WRX wagon and with the money i saved over the sti id throw it into upgrades. Then i could haul stuff and haul ass! lol


I thought about this when making the decision to go to the STI. The problem is you can upgrade a WRX and make it faster than an STI for less money, but when you talk about adding components like brakes and suspension - all of a sudden you are beyond the price of an STI. (Barring any buddy hookups) Plus the new STI is a hatchback, not my taste but more practical.

So kbb.com says
2005 - STI - $20000
2005 - WRX wagon - $15000
Upgrade the turbo of the WRX - $5k - boom you are faster than the STI but you don't have the suspension or breaking of the STI. Great for 1/4 mile but this is a mountain biking forum - you will be driving the curves.

And flman - next time you're in Colorado PM me - we'll go hit up Keystone Bike Park and I'll show you what Loveland Pass looks like from the seat of a not so slow Subaru WRX STI


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Jayem said:


> If you need a jeep (for technical off-road), you need a jeep, but that milege sucks.


I run 37x12.50x17 tires. That mileage is awesome with that big of tires.

A stock 4 door Wrangler will get 22-24 hwy and 18-20 in town. A Outback doesnt get much better.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

yea i was forgetting the new STI is a hatch, i guess hypothetically you could haul stuff and really haul butt lol. If i was really shopping for vroom vroom over practicality i would be looking at a 05ish STI, since upgrading turns very costly once you start looking at the whole package. but since i am a poor college kid, one can only dream...


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## ClappR (May 7, 2009)

2005 Forester XT ran a 5.3 sec 0-60 and a 13.8 1/4 mile, per Car and Driver
Best compact SUV 3 years in a row on the old model and 1 so far on the new model. Five star crash rating, AWD, room for the family (dad here), turbo intercooled 2.5 dohc variable valve timing and easily made faster than a stock STi. Jeep? DIFFERENT.

Let's not get to slamming one vehicle or another. That is about like an AM guy trying to punk a XC'er or SC vs. Pivot or what have you. My Fozzy is what I want it to be. A practical, capable, affordable ride with rally engineering and turbo, AWD acceleration. The kids love it. I love it. It dusts anything short of a mid 13 sec. car now and I haven't went mad with mods yet. The point is, to hell with all these people except for their 2¢. Do your research on the vehicles. Drive them. Look at practicality, affordability, etc and make your decision based on the collected data.

The Fozzies can do some off roading too = http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f114/historical-hysterical-off-road-forester-pictures-913/

Explore that site. The looks aren't for everyone but some of the better ones are pretty decent looking rides, IMHO. But I am somewhat biased.

That being said, I have and do look at Wranglers as well. I really would like to have one of those too. Just not to commute in.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

spazzy said:


> Nah i would buy an 05-06ish WRX wagon and with the money i saved over the sti id throw it into upgrades. Then i could haul stuff and haul ass! lol


Agree, at least with the new 265hp WRXs. I wouldn't agree so much if we were talking about past years, but you can do that, and still get away with better gas milege than the STI. Throw some money into swaybars and springs and you are good to go. With 265hp stock, it's not going to be too hard to get it over 300 by just a downpipe and reflash.

An STI is still an STI, and a much better starting point if you want to track or just have a fast car, but for the price diff you can outfit a WRX pretty nicely, moreso now that they develop more power stock.


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## AzSpeedfreek (Feb 3, 2004)

There isn't anything I can say about the Jeep because I don't and haven"t owned one. In regards to the Suby, I own an 05 Outback 2.5i, and I can honestly say that I wish that I didn't! The car has been reliable as in it hasen't left me stranded but The gas milage SUCKS!!! I am lucky to average 21mpg with a 50/50 mix city/hwy driving. If I am on a long un loaded (just me no bikes gear or anyone else in the car) Hwy run I might see 23-24mpg. If I am loaded (me and a passenger, 2 bikes on a hitch rack or inside the car and gear for a weekend) I am looking at 18mpg or so, the car does not like to carry anything!!! I mean come on this car was rated 24 city and 28 hwy for milage!! All maintance that needs to be done is done, the car is not neglected or abused. Now for the extra crap, at 35k miles both inner front CV boots blew up and had to be replaced thankfully under warranty. My dash rattles on both sides and they can't seem to fix it. I have a water leak some where in the front passenger foot well/dash area that they can't seem to find. At 60k my rear struts seem to have gone to crap and the rear end bottoms out way to often. There is a rattle in the steering when turning and going over bumps or potholes and it has horrible bump steer. I would trade this car in a heart beat for the 96 Explorer I used to have.


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## flman (Sep 24, 2008)

IvanLasston said:


> And flman - next time you're in Colorado PM me - we'll go hit up Keystone Bike Park and I'll show you what Loveland Pass looks like from the seat of a not so slow Subaru WRX STI


Only if you will take a Ride in my Vdub TDI or my Jeep Libby CRD :thumbsup:


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## IvanLasston (Jul 10, 2006)

flman said:


> Only if you will take a Ride in my Vdub TDI or my Jeep Libby CRD :thumbsup:


Up until I moved to California I've driven VWs. I had 2 Golfs and a couple of Vanagons - including an old pop top. I really like the TDI VW (Golf or Jetta? - either way I dig em both) Decent engine and torque - real gas mileage without the smugness of a hybrid.

Bring the Jeep out - there are plenty of trails up here that'll put a smile on your face.


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## Jaykup (May 20, 2009)

Why not buy a Toyota?...least the goverment dosent own them and they have better track records than both Subaru and Chrysler.


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## iamtylerdurden (Mar 17, 2009)

I like the subaru's a lot....all models. But never having owned one tho. I try to talk my fiancee into getting one all the time. She has a vw passatt wagon now, with a turbo, and I will never own a daily driver turbo car again.

the jeep is a lot more capable off road, and yea you can get a great deal on a new one right now. I havent seen much movement off prices of sub's yet tho.

I have a jeep and love it....regardless of issues. Thought of trading in for 4 door wrangler myself. Hard top definitely. Tons of aftermarket accessories.

I am a big fan of the black out also KNTR!! Nice lookin rubi. Tire store shipped wheels white out and they have been flipped since pic was taken.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

kntr said:


>


I think that's the same interior my parents had back in their '89 Grand Cherokee


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

iamtylerdurden said:


> I like the subaru's a lot....all models. But never having owned one tho. I try to talk my fiancee into getting one all the time. *She has a vw passatt wagon now, with a turbo, and I will never own a daily driver turbo car again.*
> 
> the jeep is a lot more capable off road, and yea you can get a great deal on a new one right now. I havent seen much movement off prices of sub's yet tho.
> 
> ...


Why so against a DD turbo car? We have a 07 Passat 2.0T, no complaints here.

Nice looking Jeep by the way. I also hate how tire stores always seem to assume everyone want's white letter out. It's happened to me twice when I forgot to specify, and wasn't asked.


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## iamtylerdurden (Mar 17, 2009)

thx adam. we've had mechanical problems with the turbo and it is very costly to repair. I love the performance and it does add a little pep when passing and such to a smaller engine (we have the 1.8T). I think it is probably a must on the diesel.

but to the fact that this is one more mechanical system on the engine that can break, I would tend to not have one again.


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## Managuense (Jun 8, 2004)

iamtylerdurden said:


>


Some things I just don't get...


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## AzSpeedfreek (Feb 3, 2004)

Managuense said:


> Some things I just don't get...


What don't you get?


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## Managuense (Jun 8, 2004)

AzSpeedfreek said:


> What don't you get?


Another thing I don't get-why someone doesn't get what I was getting at.

Get it?


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

iamtylerdurden said:


> thx adam. we've had mechanical problems with the turbo and it is very costly to repair. I love the performance and it does add a little pep when passing and such to a smaller engine (we have the 1.8T). I think it is probably a must on the diesel.
> 
> but to the fact that this is one more mechanical system on the engine that can break, I would tend to not have one again.


I've heard a few horror stories about the 1.8T. I met one guy actually got his taken back as a lemon after having the car a year and only actually having it out of the shop a few months of that time.

The 2.0T seems to be pretty well liked and durable. We'll see, had it almost 2 full years so far.

Just having a turbo doesn't make automatically make it unreliable. I agree adding complexity isn't going to add reliablitiy, but this of this, litterally every big-rig on the road is turbo charged, and many will run over a million miles.


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## AzSpeedfreek (Feb 3, 2004)

Managuense said:


> Another thing I don't get-why someone doesn't get what I was getting at.
> 
> Get it?


Well since you quoted Adam728s Jeep it could be you are refering to.....

1. Having a Turbo charged Passat?
2. The Jeep being more capable off road and being able to get a great deal on one?
3. That he loves his jeep but is thinking about getting a 4-door wrangler with a hard top?
4. Having blacked out wheels instead of white letters showing?

Is it one of these (be specific) that you don't get or is it something different?


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## Managuense (Jun 8, 2004)

AzSpeedfreek said:


> Well since you quoted Adam728s Jeep it could be you are refering to.....
> 
> 1. Having a Turbo charged Passat?
> 2. The Jeep being more capable off road and being able to get a great deal on one?
> ...


I take it you haven't been to the eye doctor recently.

Might want to consider it:thumbsup:


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

I do have a Jeep, but it's no where in this thread!


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## AzSpeedfreek (Feb 3, 2004)

Managuense said:


> I take it you haven't been to the eye doctor recently.
> 
> Might want to consider it:thumbsup:


Ok so iamtylerdurden is the guy with the Jeep, so I am still a bit tired from my ride, instead of being cryptic just spell it out for me.

I was just at the eye doctor and I am seeing 20/15.


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## jem777 (Jul 14, 2009)

A jeep is much better. You can go off road with these.
kauai jeep tours


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

To say the subaru or jeep is better is not fair. I have owned a wrangler, cherokee and currently own a forester. They all have their place and each do things better than the other. 

Wrangler
Pros
*obviously better off road
*top and door off option
*sex appeal
*can have fun off roading when recovering from that long ride
*better towing
*4.0 engine will go 300K miles

Cons
*bad gas mileage (and yes if you are getting 24 mpg on the highway that sucks)
*loud (even the new ones, in comparison to the subaru)
*new V6 is not as reliable as the subaru or the old 4.0L straight 6, but quieter
*rougher ride
*2 door has almost no room

Subaru
pros
*Better gas mileage (I average 31 on the highway with my forester, none turbo, and doing the speed limit) although that sucks compared to my wifes 40mpg carolla
*Smoother ride
*Better handling
*Quieter
*2.5 non-turbo will go 300k miles
*better control in light snow, ice and rain
*a lot more enjoyable on fast dirt roads

Cons
*can't go "off roading", however I have been in some very interesting places
*not as much interior room as the 4 door wrangler
*can not tow as much
*parts are a touch more
*turbo is more enjoyable but less reliable and requires premium gas


Cherokee
pros
*quieter than TJ's or older jeeps
*4.0L will last 300K miles
*more interior room than a 2 door wrangler
*parts are dirt cheap
*more off road capable than a subaru
*pulls a trailer better than a 2 door wrangler

cons
*poor gas mileage (19-20 on the highway stock, or 18 with 5 inch lift and 33in tires which is what i set mine up with)
*back seat is uncomfortable
*no longer able to buy a new one

In conclusion if you want good gas mileage, a comfortable ride and definite reliability buy a subaru. If you want amazing off road capability, open top experience and the "tough" guy look get the 4 door wrangler. The 2 door wrangler would be a great vehicle but is a tough buy because it is designed for the purpose of off roading and that is it.

I would also not rule out a 4 door tacoma, but that is a different thread.


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

jdfelt said:


> Wrangler
> Pros
> *obviously better off road
> *top and door off option
> ...


Where's the proof on the highlighted portion? I hear people claim it all the time, but it's always based on the same thing, nothing (of internet hearsay).


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

adam728, you're correct this is not a scientifically proven comment it is based simply on two personal observations. One my family is in the auto parts business and have seen more issues with these engines than the 4.0L ever had. Second in talking with Jeep mechanics at one of the our customers they feel it is a decent engine but not in the same league as the 4.0L. Don't get me wrong the new V6 is still a strong and reliable engine, but we are comparing it to the 4.0L that is arguably one the most reliable engines ever; and the 2.5L Subaru, which had some minor head gasket issues in the 2nd generation, but also a proven reliable engine.

As time passes and Chrysler tweaks this engine who knows maybe it will turn out to be better than the others.

So yes I apologize for a personal opinion comment, my goal was to summarize the pros and cons, instead of saying one is definitely better than the other.


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## Rotmilky (Aug 18, 2007)

I owned both a Subaru 2005 Outback 2.5 XT (turbo) and a 2007 Jeep Unlimited Rubicon edition for awhile. I liked them both and had planned keeping both. The Jeep was better for more gnarly terrain and forest roads, the Suby I used for the 4 hour hauls across the interstate to more remote trails (I liked that it'd do 100 with two bikes strapped to the top no problem and could drive offroad a bit). 

Gas mileage was not really that different. Jeep ran about 17-20 with bikes strapped on (hitch carrier), the Suby got about 16-19 with 2 bikes strapped to the roof. Without bikes, the Suby would bump up to about 19-21...but nowhere near the 30 MPG that some people here are getting. 

Ultimately, the problem is that the Subaru doesn't have good rock armor. After a heavy rain, one of the forest roads washed out a bit, exposing a rock. The Subaru made it across the wash OK, but that rock ripped a huge friggin hole in my catalytic converter. After replacing the converter, which was more expensive than I thought, I sold the Suby. 

I still like Subaru...but I wouldn't ever take one offroad again. Just too much expensive stuff under there that can get jacked up by a wayward rock or root... On the other hand, if you already own a Suby, a new catalytic converter is much cheaper than a 4-door Rubicon.


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## jmw (Feb 25, 2005)

I have a Subaru Legacy wagon (non turbo) with roof rack and average 24 mpg w/ a mix of town/highway driving.

Used to have a lifted Xterra 4x4 and miss that vehicle tremendously, especially when I need to go offroad for trail work. BUT, the Subi is much more fun to drive fast and handles great.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

jdfelt said:


> *2.5 non-turbo will go 300k miles.


Not sure why you think the turbo is not as reliable.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Rotmilky said:


> Gas mileage was not really that different. Jeep ran about 17-20 with bikes strapped on (hitch carrier), the Suby got about 16-19 with 2 bikes strapped to the roof. Without bikes, the Suby would bump up to about 19-21...but nowhere near the 30 MPG that some people here are getting.


That's one reason I'd never buy a legacy GT, outback XT or current Forester XT, the milege sucks. AWD + poorer aerodynamics + more weight + turbo = worse milege, I like the legacy GT with the H6, but that's it. I was just at the Subaru dealer the other day and those figures you posted are pretty close to what is claimed for that car. Then of course if you put a roof rack on any of the beforementioned cars it drops from there. The NA versions and smaller Impreza do much better. If we ever get the desiel legacy here that will be interesting, they drove it something like 750 miles on one tank on Top gear.


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## jdfelt (Mar 29, 2009)

This is simply from observation of converstions on subaruforester.org 's forums. Other than the 2nd generation head gasket leaks, any issues reported are on turbo charged versions. I have yet to see a single turbo charged 2.5 over 200K miles, given that is still awsome, it is not the 300K I have seen on multiple naturally aspirated. Again not saying it is unrealiable just less likely to last as long without any issues or rebuilds.


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## ezryder (Jan 30, 2007)

I was in the same situation during the Fall of 2008 and split the difference by purchasing a Toyota FJ Cruiser. 

Pros:
-Powerful engine
-Handles well on & off road
-Toyota reliability
-Seats 5 with amole storage
-Rides comfortably
-Washable Interior


Cons:
-17mpg
-sizable blind rear spot
-not a convertible


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## bustamove (Aug 12, 2004)

*I like the Subie over the Wrangler*

I must have been asleep when this thread was originally started. Genshammer wrote up a nice article comparing the two vehicles on the sands of Cape Hatteras. 
It won't be the definitive answer to the OP's question, but it will provide more insight to each vehicle's strengths and weaknesses.
*
Subaru Outback vs. Jeep Wrangler - Finding the better sand machine.*


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## lostmaniksoul (Jul 20, 2009)

Well I can't comment on which is "better" because they are two completely different types of vehicles, but I can say that my 08 Outback 3.0R is a perfect biking companion. Well built, bullet proof reliability, luxury car smooth with the H6, quiet, refined, powerful in Sport #, 8.4" ground clearance, drives like a car not a crossover, and as good as you will get in snow or rain. Plus it's a wagon with easy roof access and plenty of interior cargo space. And I get 21mpg with Yakima Lowriders, 3 Steelheads, and a SkyBox16 up there. I have an 05 STi and 09 STi too, so you could say I'm somewhat partial to Subaru. 

However with that said, I love Wranglers also and would love a Rubicon Unlimited if I had the spare money lying around. The new generation (MY07 on?) is far superior to the previous gens when it comes to everyday driving dynamics and refinement. The 4 door Unlimited is now, dare I say, somewhat practical in its new guise. I was surprised with the amount of room in the rear seats and cargo area. It certainly drives much better than the previous gen for sure, smoother, quieter and more refined. And they did a good job finally updating the interior design and ergonomics. It's a great truck with legendary true off road performance. 

2 completely different tools. Take your pick.


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## toothpuller (Feb 9, 2004)

*Adios Chrysler*

Dad has two Jeeps. A original AMC 1984 CJ-5 which is awesome and bullit proof. He also has a newerish 2007 Grand Cherokee which is a big P.O.S. Dad regrets getting rid of his Subie Outback to get a Jeep. I don't blame him.

I just scored a sweet deal on a '09 leftover Outback Limited. In the first two months of ownership, I'm averaging about 26 mpg. combined and I expect the mileage to only increase as the car breaks in. I had a Ford Ranger with 225K on the clock before I traded it in on a cash/clunker deal. Dad is very jealous of my subie and its ginormous moonroof (sadly discontinued for 2010). So far it has been a fantastic product. The monsoon summer rain doesn't affect driving performance at all.

Forget the debate about Jeep vs. Subie. Here is what you need to ask yourself.

Given Chrysler's spotty financial record over the last...20 years, do you really want to own a product by them?

1. Do you think Fiat is going to be good or bad for Chrysler? First rule about cars, English and Italian cars are the most beautiful to look at but not to own.

2. It's already being discussed that Fiat isn't going to do anything for Chrysler. It is expected that Chrysler will be shutting the doors by the end of the year for good. The bailout was money down the toilet. The Fiat merger was a joke. It's too little too late for Chrysler and GM is right behind. Sadly we are witnessing the demise of the American automotive brand.

By the way, Subaru sales are up 27% for 2009, while the rest of the industry is down with the exception of Hyundai and Kia.

Food for thought.

http://blogs.moneycentral.msn.com/t...02/chrysler-may-not-make-it-another-year.aspx

Hope this helps with your decision.


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## kojarena (Oct 4, 2009)

we just bought a 2010 Subary Legacy (called Liberty here) Premium sedan. 2.5litre CVT auto. Its okay.

I had a 2010 Subaru Outback Diesel manual yesterday and again next week on evaluation and its a great car. I would go get one but I already have a car which is too new to sell just yet.

The subie is great on fuel - try 700 miles to a tank. Its very luxurious inside and can easily take a bike in the back or a few on the roof plus it will go almost anywhere.

Make sure you look at one before making a decision. This is my buddies car - he works for them and he also owns a Jeep Wrangler Renegade. 2 door tin top. He prefers the subie !


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Tell me about the Diesel and the CVT. I'm hearing good things about both of them. I believe the CVT is available in the states and the Diesel is supposed to be here in mid 2010. 

J.


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## AzSpeedfreek (Feb 3, 2004)

> I'm averaging about 26 mpg. combined


Are you getting that number from the computer on/in the car or from actual math (miles driven/gallons on fill up= actual average milage)?

I have found that the computer in my Outback consistently states 2-3 more miles per gallon than reality shows. I average with a mix of conservative highway/city driving about 22mpg with 65k on the clock and the car is rated 24 city 28 highway!


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## Lotus78 (Jul 22, 2009)

New Wranglers (YK) are much…much “better” (refined) then they used to be. But if you are buying based on consumer repot type reviews bhp or 0-60 times, the wrangler is always going to come out poorly. You also miss the point in owning a wrangler in the first place. If you are looking for practicality get the Subaru. If you an open air, extremely capable off road vehicle that will be loads of fun but a pain in the a$$ sometimes……….


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## kojarena (Oct 4, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> Tell me about the Diesel and the CVT. I'm hearing good things about both of them. I believe the CVT is available in the states and the Diesel is supposed to be here in mid 2010.
> 
> J.


Well you cant get the CVT with the Diesel wagon (yet). On the ordinary awd wagon the cvt is only for the 2.5l 4 cyl model. The 3.6l comes with a five speed auto as does the GT wagon.

The CVT is strange - my car is a 6.0l V8 local version of your Pontiac G8 GT. The CVT on the subie has a whine which they all do apparently. You wait for the gear change that never comes BUT they do have paddles on the steering wheel with six pre set gearing points. That feels close to a normal auto. Seriously though - get the diesel if you want an outback.

The 5sp manual can be driven easily and as long as you get out of first quickly and into second it will be a quick car. City driving we do 700kms to a tank (430 miles?) and country/highway we get 1000-1100kms to a tank (700 miles). The seats flip easily from the back door release and a bike will fit no worries or get roof racks.

The shape is growing on me - wagon is the pick and the silver Outback is the best of the lot. We have the gunmetal grey sedan which is also nice. The one we had last week had leather and sunroof. The one we have this week has leather, sunroof and satnav. Nice package I will be sad to hand back on Monday.

For my next car it will either be the diesel outback or a golf gti/gtd. Time to get away from $100 a tank refills each week on the V8 in the next couple of years !

Ask me anything else you want to know. I will get some snaps of the Outback this weekend and will post em up if you want.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

how big is the tank that you get that sort of mileage?

The diesel outback is probably our next car when we replace my wife's SUV next year sometime.

J.


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## toothpuller (Feb 9, 2004)

AzSpeedfreek said:


> Are you getting that number from the computer on/in the car or from actual math (miles driven/gallons on fill up= actual average milage)?
> 
> I have found that the computer in my Outback consistently states 2-3 more miles per gallon than reality shows. I average with a mix of conservative highway/city driving about 22mpg with 65k on the clock and the car is rated 24 city 28 highway!


From the computer. You are right, it is too good to be true. I haven't sat down to do the math yet because I have only about 2500 miles on the car. After 10K, I'll sit down and figure out what I'm really getting. I do a combo of city and highway as well.


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## kleinmantra (Aug 13, 2008)

A nicely loaded subie will cost about the same as a wrangler. I have a wrangler yes 06 was 28k out the dorr I could buy a subie limited for about teh same or less about 26k. The subie will do just as well in the snow etc. Unless you go offroad and I mean offroad teh subs will do just as well and be a more comfortable ride. Yes maybe not as cool but the jeep is fun for the most part but on long rides I will take another car.


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## tpm7 (May 14, 2007)

kleinmantra said:


> A nicely loaded subie will cost about the same as a wrangler. I have a wrangler yes 06 was 28k out the dorr I could buy a subie limited for about teh same or less about 26k. The subie will do just as well in the snow etc. Unless you go offroad and I mean offroad teh subs will do just as well and be a more comfortable ride. Yes maybe not as cool but the jeep is fun for the most part but on long rides I will take another car.


Granted TJ's were extremely expensive vehicles when they were brand new but from what I've been able to tell with the introduction and success of the JK, prices have dropped a good bit. I'd say you could get a fully loaded Rubi for less than a fully loaded XT Subaru. That being said Subarus drive amazing, have amazing grip and drive really well in the winter. I've driven both an '04 Forrester XT and '01 TJ lifted with 33's, SYE'd tummy ruck skids, heavy fabbed bumpers etc, and it's a toss up. They're both great vehicles but with the advent of the new JK Unlimited, I'd say go with that - I don't like the way Subarus are headed right now. (That being said I hate the way Jeep is going right now, with the exception of the JK). I'd say go with the Jeep if you haven't decided yet, then again I might be a bit biased:










BTW I think the Jeep brand has continously gone downhill since Kaiser sold it to AMC, and Chrysler nearly killed the brand for what it is and stands for when they eliminated the XJ... rant over, hope the OP enjoys either one!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Im selling my JK tomorrow if all goes as planned. I love the thing but its just too much $$$$.


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## tussery (Aug 15, 2009)

oops said:


> but then again going from my 81 CJ7 to my 93YJ, I didn't think they should have a molded plastic dash or a/c...kinda miss them both


That is why you do this.


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## rivrmutt (Mar 14, 2006)

*bullchit....*



kntr said:


> My Jeep gets 19-20mpg on the HWY with 37" tires. A stock Jeep will get 22-24 mpg.
> 
> I love my Jeep.


I have had several jeeps and not one has ever come close to that kinda fuel mileage.

+1 subbie


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

My vote is for the Jeep Wrangler... although I'm not a fan of the JK's. I've had 4 Wranglers in the past 10 years. My current version is a 2002. I will never purchase any other vehicle.

Clickable:


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

subaru if u want ur car to last. jeep (chrysler) went bankrupt because their cars were of the lowest on the market. i've sat in multiple jeeps and all have had similar problems: broken AC, plastic falling off on the interior, mechanics breaking down... etc

subaru actually sold MORE cars than usual this recession, while every other car manf sold less. they're doing something right...


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## kojarena (Oct 4, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> how big is the tank that you get that sort of mileage?
> 
> The diesel outback is probably our next car when we replace my wife's SUV next year sometime.
> 
> J.


15.85 US gallons.... 60 metric litres. We did 2100kms on two tanks of fuel. Nice.


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## Zasshu (Jun 6, 2008)

One thing I've been hearing A LOT from gear heads is not to buy anything new right now (with the exception of Toyota or Honda umbrellas). Some even suggested to avoid anything between 2007 and 2012. Most automakers are churning out crap (redundant for domestics) by cutting corners because of the economy.

I wonder if this goes the same for cycling?


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## Zasshu (Jun 6, 2008)

I believe the '04 and '06 Outbacks turned out to be very good models. '04 and '05 were the good years for the Forester.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

rivrmutt said:


> I have had several jeeps and not one has ever come close to that kinda fuel mileage.
> 
> +1 subbie


Maybe you need to learn how to drive.  Have you ever driven or owned an 07+ Wrangler with the minivan V6? If you keep it under 60 mph on the hwy 20 mpg is very reasonable. The onboard computer usually says 21 mpg after an all hwy road trip. When I check it its usually more like 19-20. As soon as I go over 60mph, I get 17-18. If I stay at 70-75 it drops to 15-16. Trust me, I have check it a lot. I couldnt believe it either. I belong to a JK forum and there are several guys gettin in the lower 20s if they keep the speed down.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

kntr said:


> Maybe you need to learn how to drive.  Have you ever driven or owned an 07+ Wrangler with the minivan V6? If you keep it under 60 mph on the hwy 20 mpg is very reasonable. The onboard computer usually says 21 mpg after an all hwy road trip. When I check it its usually more like 19-20. As soon as I go over 60mph, I get 17-18. If I stay at 70-75 it drops to 15-16. Trust me, I have check it a lot. I couldnt believe it either. I belong to a JK forum and there are several guys gettin in the lower 20s if they keep the speed down.


UNDER 60 mph on highways? wtf how old r u gramps? and that only nets u 20mpg?
compare: 2002(!!) Acura MDX (bigger, heavier than wrangler) got 28mpg going 70mph. this was from fill up on highway to next fill up. forget the jeep, they were never and will never be fuel efficient.

go w/ the Subaru!


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

Jeep/Chrysler went out of business??!! Crap, somebody should have told my local dealership that. I went in today to pick up some a.t.f. and they sold it to me with the Mopar name still on the containers!! Eeek!!! I wonder what's actually in those containers?!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

louisssss said:


> UNDER 60 mph on highways? wtf how old r u gramps? and that only nets u 20mpg?
> compare: 2002(!!) Acura MDX (bigger, heavier than wrangler) got 28mpg going 70mph. this was from fill up on highway to next fill up. forget the jeep, they were never and will never be fuel efficient.
> 
> go w/ the Subaru!


Most highways in Montana are 55-70mph. Interstates are 75mpg. I go the speed limit or a little under. Ya, it only nets me 20 mpg with 37" tires, yes 37" tires. Your MDX wouldnt get 28 mpg with 37s. I guarantee. Oh wait, there is no way a MDX could ever run 37" tires. Im not trying to convince him to drive a Jeep. Hell, I sold mine yesterday. Im just stating that it gets decent mpg if you drive right. Its a brick with a flat nose. My Jeep was just shy of 5,000 lbs. I loved the thing. I just needed something more practical. Ill be buying a 01-04 4 door Toyota Tacoma or a Chevy 4 door pickup next and they get crappy gas mileage too.


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## rallyraid (Jun 12, 2007)

More pics here https://www.hemmy.net/2008/01/09/jeep-vs-tree/


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## dhoffroad (Oct 5, 2009)

JEEP !!!

you can't do this in a subi


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

dhoffroad said:


> JEEP !!!
> 
> you can't do this in a subi


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/01/business/01auto.html

can't do this in a subi either


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## dhoffroad (Oct 5, 2009)

not getting into "politics" cause I just don't do that, but that did'nt realy change things now did it ?? you still get all the same equipment, warranty, etc. as you did before that happend.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

without getting into "who makes better cars" cause i dont care what people buy, people just know that the companies that made good cars sell more in a recession and those that don't go bankrupt


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## dexetr30 (May 8, 2008)

Let's not forget that Subaru is a Japanese based manufacturer. For the most part foreign based manufacturers didn't suffer as badly as domestic brands.


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## shredchic (Jun 18, 2007)

If you're planning on any serious off-roading, JEEP! If not, SUBIE! I love my WRX, but boy did it get knocked around on Usal Rd. on the Lost coast. It's really not meant for serious off-roading. Dirt roads, fine. But not huge car swallowing ruts.

OTOH, I've seen Jeeps go up MAD stuff I'm tellin' ya... MAD! But if you're not into that, the Subaru is just a much better all-around car that you can't go wrong with.


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## ErrantGorgon (Apr 13, 2006)

If you live in Salt Lake, you definitely have to get the Sub. In fact, I think its a city Mandate. At least thats what it looks like on any given SLC street.


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## hollandbriscoe (Sep 11, 2009)

kntr said:


> My Jeep gets 19-20mpg on the HWY with 37" tires. A stock Jeep will get 22-24 mpg.
> 
> I love my Jeep.


If you didnt regear your axles you aren't actually getting that kind of mileage. Your speedometer is going to be off due to the oversized tires. That and the stock axles really aren't made for 37's


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

dhoffroad said:


> JEEP !!!
> 
> you can't do this in a subi


But you can't do this in your Jeep!

















Just kidding.

I drive a Jeep TJ, and I love it. But it is a very impracticle vehicle for the most part. I could list out my complains, but a new 4 door Jeep would cure most of them (noise, short wheelbase, lack of interior space, etc). Not that it matters, since the original poster seems to have given up on this thread about 5 months ago.

dhoffroad, at least you picked a good color!


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## AzSpeedfreek (Feb 3, 2004)

hollandbriscoe said:


> If you didnt regear your axles you aren't actually getting that kind of mileage. Your speedometer is going to be off due to the oversized tires. That and the stock axles really aren't made for 37's


You do realize that there are other ways to re-calibrate the spedo than changing the axl gears right? Just to name two different ways change the computer programing, or instal a mechanical gear on the spedo cable where it goes into the trans.


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## roc865 (Jun 29, 2009)

subaru all the way. jeep wranglers might be cool and great when brand new and from the get go but they are nothing but problems.


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

roc865 said:


> subaru all the way. jeep wranglers might be cool and great when brand new and from the get go but they are nothing but problems.


Really? My list is O2 sensors, a radiator, and a battery ground cable on a vehicle that's seen a lot of off-road action, from mudding, to snow runs, rock crawling, and even dune running. It's been across country numerous times, usually hauling an enclosed trailer at that. I'll roll 130,000 miles next week when we drive it to northern Michigan from southern Arkansas.

I wouldn't call that a vehicle that's plaged with problems.


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