# I need a Gore recommendation



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

One would think that it would be easy to check out the full line of Gore products considering their headquarters is about an hour away from me and they have some fantastic single track trails that I frequent, but that is not the case. 
Im pretty much set on Gore. I loved the feel of their Phantom 2 jacket but it didn't fit me quite right, plus i would like a more MTB oriented jacket. My riding over the winter will most likely take place between 20-40 degrees with some occasional dips in the 0-20 range. Mostly cross country with some downhill. I understand i may have to add an additional layer for the 0-20. i'll probably get the matching jersey.

Anyways, I have it narrowed down to 3 jackets. What do you think would be the best choice?

*Alp-X 2.0 *

*Cons*
The front pocket appears to be a bit small for my phone (galaxy note) which isnt that big of a deal.

There aren't any vents although the sleeves are removable.
The zippers have been complained about as small and possibly fragile. 
Sleeve removal and re-attachment isn't the easiest. 
Front pocket doesn't have a sunglass cleaner wipe, not a deal breaker

*Pros*
Alp-x is purported to be their top line. 
Looks great.

Men's ALP-X 2.0 WINDSTOPPER® Soft Shell Zip-Off Jacket | GORE BIKE WEAR®

*Cosmo Fusion Windstopper*
*Cons*
Doesnt have removable sleeves (not a deal breaker) 
Fleece lined (i dont know if thats bad haha)
Front pocket probably too small

*Pros*
Looks great
Large zippers
Front Vents, shouldnt interfere with my camelback 
Woohoo, an eyeglass wipe in the front pocket, it has a difference color than the one i keep in more short or the 4 others in my camelback 
Thumb holes on the sleeve cuff would be awesome.

Men's FUSION COSMO WINDSTOPPER® Soft Shell Jacket | GORE BIKE WEAR®

*Fusion Cross Windstopper 2.0*
*Cons*
Doesnt appear to have a rear pocket 
Doesnt have removable sleeves

*Pros*
Velcro Cuffs
Still looks kinda cool 
Has a large front pocket, will be able to fit my phone. Would be better for me on road rides. 
Has good venting (on sleeves and body)
Large Zippers 
Price, i found one for $160

Men's FUSION CROSS 2.0 WINDSTOPPER® Active Shell Jacket | GORE BIKE WEAR®

Thanks a lot for reading!


----------



## CheapWhine (Dec 16, 2005)

I am not an expert on Gore products, but there are some other differences in their product descriptions that might be worth noting.

The Fusion Cross is an Active Shell jacket while the other two are Soft Shell. The active shell benefits are supposed to be water resistance and packability while soft shell is softer and better breathing. The Phantom jacket is a soft shell. Here are the "official details".

The Fusion Cross and Alp-X are listed as slim fit while the Fusion Cosmo is a comfort fit. Based on your Phantom experience, you will need to decide which is more appropriate for you.

You noted several other differences and the color combinations are also different for each jacket.

Good luck!


----------



## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

I think venting is a must. My Gore didn't have any venting so I had someone sew some venting into the jacket which turned out looking like a factory job and very functional. I like the Fusion Cross Active Shell.

I add or subtract layers under mine depending on the temperature and use it all winter.


----------



## crashtestdummy (Jun 18, 2005)

Jongalt26 said:


> There aren't any vents although the sleeves are removable.


Wouldn't you get venting by partially unzipping the sleeves?


----------



## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

crashtestdummy said:


> Wouldn't you get venting by partially unzipping the sleeves?


Some, but I don't think it would be enough.


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

Thanks Cheapwhine! 
I did some additional research on the active shell versus soft shell and found that on some other site that the active shell isn't as durable. That rules out the Fusion Cross. I also definitely want the breathability. The Alp-X, while listed as slim fit, is cut larger than the phantom, according to someone that rides with the Alp-x. This extra room should work-out considering the phantom was just a smidge smaller than i would prefer. 

Thats great on the aftermarket venting Alpha, your endorsement is making me reconsider putting it back on my short list haha. Nice picture, that must have been a fun ride! 

CTD - thats why i mentioned that the sleeves are removable, core venting could be controlled by the main zipper as opposed to side zips. 

Thanks a lot for the help. Looks like I made a decision. I'm definitely going to go with the Alp X and Cosmo Fusion. I'll see which one fits the best. Hopefully they are both different enough to warrant keeping both of them. 

My conversation with my wife this afternoon:
"oh yea, hey hon i think i'm just going to snag both of those gore jackets"
Her reply "Oh and send one back"
Me: "yea uhh maybe we'll see"


----------



## Phantomtracer (Jan 13, 2004)

I went through the same process recently, I really wish Gore would list temp ranges with their jackets.
I went with the alp-x 2.0 zip off sleeves, thermal shirt
I rode in 38-40 degree weather and was a bit cold, this was with the base layer, a thin fleece that I am now replacing and the alp jacket. The jacket is great but it does not offer any warmth it stops the wind chill big time.
I'm hoping my old pearl Izumi mid layer is beat and not as warm as the alp thermal jersey that I ordered, if not i will need another jacket or an extra layer in the low 30's
I emailed Gore asking what I could do about increasing warmth and they suggested a windstopper base layer or the Fusion Tool Windstopper Jacket which is their warmest mt biking jacket.
Good luck.


----------



## HEMIjer (Jul 17, 2008)

Men's COUNTDOWN WINDSTOPPER® Soft Shell Hoody | GORE BIKE WEAR®

I jsut posted on another thread on similar topic, but I sware by this with layering underneath based on what you need.

I like the hood to put under helmet, conveince of front pockets, and full zip for venting when climbing!

Honestly though I dont htink you cna go wrong as long as the fit is right, I have been happy with all there windstopper stuff all of it is go too for me, from fall through spring when I need to regulate or keep warm it just plain works.


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

Phantomtracer said:


> I really wish Gore would list temp ranges with their jackets.
> I went with the alp-x 2.0 zip off sleeves, thermal shirt
> I rode in 38-40 degree weather and was a bit cold, this was with the base layer, a thin fleece that I am now replacing and the alp jacket. The jacket is great but it does not offer any warmth it stops the wind chill big time.
> I'm hoping my old pearl Izumi mid layer is beat and not as warm as the alp thermal jersey that I ordered, if not i will need another jacket or an extra layer in the low 30's
> ...


Yea Gore makes this way too hard when it doesnt have to be. They already have a ton of great info available but just providing a temperature range & a comparison chart would be a significant benefit.

I did end up ordering both the Alp X 2.0 windstopper jacket and the Fusion Cosmo Jacket. Once i get both of those then i'll be able figure out if both are worth keeping or if i need swap one out for the Fusion Tool or the Countdown Windstopper. Ill probably get a thermal jersey as well. Phantom, your dealing with the same temps I am, hopefully we have another mild winter in the philly region lol


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

HEMIjer said:


> Men's COUNTDOWN WINDSTOPPER® Soft Shell Hoody | GORE BIKE WEAR®
> 
> I jsut posted on another thread on similar topic, but I sware by this with layering underneath based on what you need.
> 
> ...


I agree, i really like the feel of their soft shells which is why I definitely want to get a gore jacket. If i dont like it then it will give me a reason to buy more Endura stuff lol.
j


----------



## Phantomtracer (Jan 13, 2004)

I just rode tonight with the gore polypropylene long sleeve base layer shirt, then I put a windstopper long sleeve base layer over that and as the third layer the alp x jacket. It was 40 degrees and I was at the perfect temp. Last week I rode the same temps and had an old fleece in-lieu of the windstopper base layer shirt and and I was cold. So I guess that old fleece is beat. I was really happy as I feel with the alp x and a new thermal mid layer I can get down into the high 20's That windstopper base layer did the trick and it didn't add much bulk at all. Johngalt26 yes I ride wissahicon, French creek, etc.


----------



## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

Phantomtracer said:


> I went through the same process recently, I really wish Gore would list temp ranges with their jackets.


It would be so hard to have realistic values, everyone is so different...


----------



## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

I'm not a big fan of Gore. The thing that nobody every really tells you is that its not worth a dam till temperatures are well below freezing and have been that way long enough to dry out the air. 

Gore works by vapor transmission. If its a simply raining, you will have outside air humidity in the high 90% range. If its 100% humidity inside your jacket there's not enough of a gradient to move the moisture out of your jacket through the membrane quickly enough to keep you comfortable. You'll need big vents and major air flow to move out the moist air at the rate needed to stay comfortable. 

Once it gets cold enough to freeze the moisture out of the air its a different store. When its 10% moisture the sweat coming up through the membrane gets pulled off quickly enough to make a difference. 

In the right climate Gore works great, but you always need to make sure a garment has the physical venting that it needs vent mechanically.


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

Phantomtracer said:


> It was 40 degrees and I was at the perfect temp. I was really happy as I feel with the alp x and a new thermal mid layer I can get down into the high 20's That windstopper base layer did the trick and it didn't add much bulk at all. Johngalt26 yes I ride wissahicon, French creek, etc.


Yea and night riding definitely feels colder even if the temps are the same as a day ride. I'll snag a windstopper base layer as well. Thanks for the tip! I was just at Belmont on saturday, they are preparing for a big cyclocross race on sunday dec 8th. (figured i'd share that info)



-Todd- said:


> It would be so hard to have realistic values, everyone is so different...


While I agree with the subjective view of the consumer from the engineering perpective they have design temps and data that they could easily share. A friend has a gore jacket that he cant wear above 30 degrees, its just too hot but it's great for below that temp. Having that info prior to buying would be a huge help. Having differences between their cold built kits described would be a benefit too (e.g. Fusion vs Alp Vs Oxygen etc.) And what does SO mean? Their site doesnt typically have SO after the names but the retailers do (e.g. Phantom 2.0 SO Windstopper) While a definition may exist, I couldnt find it. 
WIth that said, the info on their site does seem to be more robust than their competitors lol.



Metamorphic said:


> I'm not a big fan of Gore. The thing that nobody every really tells you is that its not worth a dam till temperatures are well below freezing and have been that way long enough to dry out the air.
> 
> In the right climate Gore works great, but you always need to make sure a garment has the physical venting that it needs vent mechanically.


That's an awesome explanation and I didnt even consider humidity levels. Fall & Spring, here in philly, is definitely humid. Winter can dry out at times but not all of the time. It will be interesting to see how the jackets perform. Venting was definitely a high priority for me. 
Do you have another recommendation in lieu of Gore?


----------



## Metamorphic (Apr 29, 2011)

There's really no alternative to gore for that kind of product. And its its sweet spot (bitter dry cold) it performs well. I was more trying to say that the garment has to have good structural ventilation if you want to perform in high humidity conditions.


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

That makes sense. 
I received both the Fusion Cosmo and the Alp X 2.0. The main difference between the two is that the Fusion has a thin fleece insulation layer. The Alp X doesn't have the insulation. The Alp X bunched up at my shoulders a bit so I decided to exchange the Alp for the fusion thermal jersey. 
I was able to do a 20+ mile MTB ride with the Fusion Cosmo yesterday in 20-30 degree weather (wind chill down to single digits) with a mediocre 40% humidity level. I Had the cosmo on and a thermal compression layer as well as another thinner compression layer and felt warm enough. The front pocket is roomy and fit my oversized galaxy note phone. The backflap is nice as are the pcokets. I didn't use the vents yet. 
The sunglass cleaner was handy, even though i keep numerous in my camelback etc. The jacket performed quite well and I'm very happy with it. Now i just need to find a way to keep my feet warm lol.


----------



## Phantomtracer (Jan 13, 2004)

I also rode yesterday, upper 20's with high winds. I had
Thermal base layer
Windstopper base layer
Alp thermal mid layer
Alp x 2.0 windstopper outer shell

I was at the perfec temp, not sweating but not cold.
Although I had four layers they are very thin, so I still felt maneuverable.
I think if I ride in the low 20's to teens I might need the fusion jacket.


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

That sounds awesome Phantom, where did you ride at? I hit White Clay, which is always fun, even if a bit monotonous. What are your thoughts on the windstopper base layer? I'm hoping that my current mid-weight, non windstopper, base layer (plus thermal fusion jersey & fusion cosmo jacket) will be enough.


----------



## Phantomtracer (Jan 13, 2004)

The windstopper base layer makes a big difference. I highly recommend it, although it is not as comfortable as the regular base layer on the skin.
I rode nockamixon park, although I ride middle run also, love that place!


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

I hope you had a nice thanksgiving. That sounds good about the windstopper base. I may have to pick one up. 
I love nockamixon, they did a great job with the trails out there. Lots of terrain variation keeps it interesting. Im hoping to get out there sometime soon. 
Out of curiosity, how do you keep your feet warm?
Thanks
J


----------



## Phantomtracer (Jan 13, 2004)

I use toe Warner's and wool socks, if it gets real ugly I have full booties.
If you want to ride let me know.


----------



## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't know if Gore is the perfect answer to every situation but I use a Gore Soft Shell Windstopper jacket in a lot of temperatures by adjusting what I put under it.

The following picture from yesterday while on a 30 mile ride and the Garmin said it was as low as -19 degrees. It warmed some but only about to -10 degrees.


----------



## Phantomtracer (Jan 13, 2004)

alphazz said:


> I don't know if Gore is the perfect answer to every situation but I use a Gore Soft Shell Windstopper jacket in a lot of temperatures by adjusting what I put under it.
> 
> The following picture from yesterday while on a 30 mile ride and the Garmin said it was as low as -19 degrees. It warmed some but only about to -10 degrees.


What were you wearing?


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

Phantomtracer said:


> I use toe Warner's and wool socks, if it gets real ugly I have full booties.
> If you want to ride let me know.


Toe warmers are a good idea, i'll add some plush wool socks to see if that helps. 
Definitely on the ride sometime, hopefully the trails clear up a bit. I wanted to get out yesterday but was a bit under the weather. (no pun intended) 
J


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

alphazz said:


> I don't know if Gore is the perfect answer to every situation but I use a Gore Soft Shell Windstopper jacket in a lot of temperatures by adjusting what I put under it.
> 
> The following picture from yesterday while on a 30 mile ride and the Garmin said it was as low as -19 degrees. It warmed some but only about to -10 degrees.


Wow now thats serious cold and one heck of a journey. What brand of balaclava are you using? That looks better than the ones ive seen. I dont like my current one because I cant take a drink or eat something without removing it.


----------



## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Jongalt26 said:


> Wow now thats serious cold and one heck of a journey. What brand of balaclava are you using? That looks better than the ones ive seen. I dont like my current one because I cant take a drink or eat something without removing it.


It is a Klim Arctic. It is possible to drink from a regular water bottle with it on and slip some food up the opening but the opening isn't so big that it lets a lot of cold in.


----------



## Jongalt26 (Jan 25, 2013)

Awesome thanks for the info! Im definitely adding that to my list of things to get. 
J


----------

