# Trek Rail Review - 5 reasons why it may be the best e-mtb for you.



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Cool bike.

Tho

The Knockblock doesn't always work. There's a thread with multiple bikes on EMTB where the KB did not keep the fork from hitting the downtube in a crash. The rubber protection doesn't seem to work, and Trek says it's not a warranty issue.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

mlx john said:


> Cool bike.
> 
> Tho
> 
> The Knockblock doesn't always work. There's a thread with multiple bikes on EMTB where the KB did not keep the fork from hitting the downtube in a crash. The rubber protection doesn't seem to work, and Trek says it's not a warranty issue.


It's also a PITA trying to deal with it on some of the more common fork-mount racks. One of my riding buddies has it and it's a pain. Always have to put his on first, if we had 2 like that we'd be screwed.

How do you like the Levo SL? That is more my speed.


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## teK-- (Dec 3, 2011)

Still too heavy. Need to knock about 10lb off to be 'the best ebike for me'. Happy to to achieve that with a smaller motor and battery.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Levo SL is pretty sick. Only stock part left on it is the brakes (Sram G2 RSC). It's now my big travel bike, Pike Ultimate 160mm, DPX2 w/cascade link 155mm, 2.6 tires. Only 39.2# with pedals, and more power than _I need. _Power is totally adjustable.

This being a Trek thread though, the new E-Caliber is pretty damn cool for a XC E-bike

First Ride: Trek E-Caliber | Beta MTB


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I just got one of these Trek Rail bikes a couple weeks ago tho mine is the Rail 7 model which is an aluminum frame instead of carbon fiber.
The Rail 7 is also Shimano drivetrain & brakes rather than SRAM stuff.
Anyway I immediately removed the Knock Block feature. This was easy to do in 10 minutes with a flat file. My fork does not contact my frame, I don't know why Knock Block was even on there.
The $6500 Rail 7 weighs 2# more than the $8500 fancy CF frame Rail.
I put a 210mm OneUp dropper in mine -- much improvement. Also 3" wide tires F&R.
Now I just have to get out on the trails and ride the dang thing.
=sParty


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## Igetsin (Feb 26, 2021)

I had one as free loaner in the summer, and it was absolutely insane. I rode it in the rain and it had zero issues climbing over wet roots and mud.

What it did have issue with is the chain ring kept getting lose causing chain drops and at one point tore the chain. Searching the forums it seemed to be the common problem and it of course requires special tool to torque it properly.

Any issues like this with yours?


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## 2-wheels (Feb 15, 2021)

I'm interested. What is the range in full electric assist mode?


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## Igetsin (Feb 26, 2021)

2-wheels said:


> I'm interested. What is the range in full electric assist mode?


Don't know, but probably a few hours rather than miles. It's really for full uphill climb, you can reduce assist on the downhill.


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## 2-wheels (Feb 15, 2021)

Igetsin said:


> Don't know, but probably a few hours rather than miles. It's really for full uphill climb, you can reduce assist on the downhill.


I would have expected battery power consumption to be automatically reduced on downhills without human interaction...
How many hours does a full charge last?


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## jlf.ski.bike.sail (May 5, 2006)

This article is listing this bike as attractive based on the Tires and Colors..hmmm. gonna have to try harder than that!


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## Igetsin (Feb 26, 2021)

2-wheels said:


> I would have expected battery power consumption to be automatically reduced on downhills without human interaction...
> How many hours does a full charge last?


Probably about 2 hours. My wife's Trek Allant 8+ S, has similar motor and battery, it lasts 60 miles, but on flatter paved trails. These bikes also don't have throttle, so you always have to pedal them. They do have levels of assistance. Range generally depends on levels of assistance and the gearing that you select.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mlx john said:


> Cool bike.
> 
> Tho
> 
> The Knockblock doesn't always work. There's a thread with multiple bikes on EMTB where the KB did not keep the fork from hitting the downtube in a crash. The rubber protection doesn't seem to work, and Trek says it's not a warranty issue.


Good to know! Yeah the Knock Block is just a tiny aluminum stop on the headset. It's hard to see how it will stop the whole front end from swinging around during a big crash.

What's really needed is is rubber blocks on the down tube. These will cushion the blow and they will allow maximum steering angle.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ogre said:


> It's also a PITA trying to deal with it on some of the more common fork-mount racks. One of my riding buddies has it and it's a pain. Always have to put his on first, if we had 2 like that we'd be screwed.
> 
> How do you like the Levo SL? That is more my speed.


The Levo SL is a revolutionary, lightweight emtb, 2 years ahead of its time. Specialized has been in the game so long, they understand the emtb niche markets even before they mature. I wrote an article here and I pushed the envelope, converting my Levo SL to 32 lbs with battery and pedals. Video: Lightest e-mtb? Sub 32 lb Levo SL complete ebike.

It is an impressive effort and an opening shot into the world of sub 38 lb emtbs. It gives fit riders and athletes another option aside from going with a 50 lb emtb with a big battery. It gives just a bit of assistance and it makes batteries modular, allowing the rider to carry just what they need for a ride, just like water. It is a great effort and I'm seeing some of my fit friends, (older cross-country teams) ALL get one! It allows them to ride from their house 6 times a week.

It has some downsides:

very expensive and I think it's $2k more than it should be at each model trim. They own the market so no price competition in this category
the power is not only limited to 35nm (a Levo is 90nm) but that torque is not available at low rpms, when you need it most. It wants you to start the bike up yourself up a steep hill. It does this to conserve battery range i think.
the suspension kinematics is not quite there. It's no plush or supportive at sag


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

mlx john said:


> Levo SL is pretty sick. Only stock part left on it is the brakes (Sram G2 RSC). It's now my big travel bike, Pike Ultimate 160mm, DPX2 w/cascade link 155mm, 2.6 tires. Only 39.2# with pedals, and more power than _I need. _Power is totally adjustable.
> 
> This being a Trek thread though, the new E-Caliber is pretty damn cool for a XC E-bike
> 
> First Ride: Trek E-Caliber | Beta MTB


Thank you for that. I gotta ride that e-caliber. The Fazua is an amazing, modular motor with a great fault... there are not many points of engagement between the removable motor and drivetrain. Normally, you can rotate the crank 30 degrees before engagement. (not 3... but 30_.

I rode it quite a bit on the Pivot E-Vault. Not a big issue on a road/gravel bike but could be on techy terrain on en emtb.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Sparticus said:


> I just got one of these Trek Rail bikes a couple weeks ago tho mine is the Rail 7 model which is an aluminum frame instead of carbon fiber.
> The Rail 7 is also Shimano drivetrain & brakes rather than SRAM stuff.
> Anyway I immediately removed the Knock Block feature. This was easy to do in 10 minutes with a flat file. My fork does not contact my frame, I don't know why Knock Block was even on there.
> The $6500 Rail 7 weighs 2# more than the $8500 fancy CF frame Rail.
> ...


Amazing Sparti!!!!

The fact that the Rail can be had with Shimano 12-speed is a huge plus. Shimano 12-speed is superior to Sram especially for ebikes. The reason is Shimano only shifts at key points in the cassette when it's ready. An emtb is very hard to shift without power since the motor is always helping or doubling up. A Sram system snaps and pops often. A Shimano 12-speed is more butter.

And Shiman 4-piston brakes... there has never been a greater need for them. It's not just because the emtb is 20 lbs heavier. It's more because it will be subjected to 4000 foot descents regularly. Steeper ones too.

The Trek dropper post is suspect. And the OneUp is able to maximize the limited available seat tube length on a Trek.

Congrats.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Igetsin said:


> I had one as free loaner in the summer, and it was absolutely insane. I rode it in the rain and it had zero issues climbing over wet roots and mud.
> 
> What it did have issue with is the chain ring kept getting lose causing chain drops and at one point tore the chain. Searching the forums it seemed to be the common problem and it of course requires special tool to torque it properly.
> 
> Any issues like this with yours?


No issues on ours. It sounds like an installation problem. The chainring lockring is a standard Bosch setup and it's proven reliable. But it has to be torqued significantly (to spec).


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Amazing Sparti!!!!
> 
> The fact that the Rail can be had with Shimano 12-speed is a huge plus. Shimano 12-speed is superior to Sram especially for ebikes. The reason is Shimano only shifts at key points in the cassette when it's ready. An emtb is very hard to shift without power since the motor is always helping or doubling up. A Sram system snaps and pops often. A Shimano 12-speed is more butter.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Brutha.
As for components, I've always been a Shimano guy. GF has 2 bikes (non-e) w/SRAM and it seems like good stuff too, tho.
The 4-pot brakes on this Trek Rail are amazing. I already ordered four pair of replacement semi-metallic pads for spares... I expect to need these considering all the vertical terrain here.
At over 6', I appreciate all the dropper length I can get. Trek's website said there's 300mm seatpost insertion available in the XL Rail and OneUp's website says their 210mm dropper requires 297mm at full insertion. Close! I knew it might be tight but I have no problem with my setup. (Surprisingly I didn't have to bury the post -- it's probably 3/4" shy of full insertion.)
Anyway now I'm just waiting for the weather to clear a bit before I hit the trails with my new Rail. Meanwhile I've invested many hours of trailwork throughout the past couple of weeks following our ice storm that brought down countless trees. I'm grateful to own an electric chainsaw w/3 batteries -- there have been days when I exhausted them all.
Hmmm... e-saw... ebike... I even have a pair of electric gloves for the really cold evenings when camping. People can think / say what they want but personally I'm enjoying e-technology.
=sParty


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

2-wheels said:


> I'm interested. What is the range in full electric assist mode?


So in emtbs, this cannot be answered because of two reasons. First, there's no full electric assist. The rider has to help pedal and they do in 4 modes of motor assist levels. Second, range in miles is hardly relevant because no trail is flat and because riders have different weights and fitness levels. This bike can go about 100+ miles on flat road. Usually about 4-5 hours of pedaling and assist

The most helpful answer I can give you is climbing range. I'm 150lbs and fairly fit and this bike as a 625 wh battery. On Eco/Tour mode, I can climb about 6300 feet with this bike on one charge.


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## JulioBTLL (Dec 12, 2008)

I bought a Rail 7 and its the best purchase I've made in my life. After 20 years of Mt biking, my body couldn't handle big climbs anymore and I would be nearly bedridden for days recovering after a big ride. Cross country riding didn't click and I stopped having interest in riding. Now I can knock off 20+ miles with 4000ft climbing/descending on trails I've haven't ridden in several years. Instead of a week of recovery, a day or 2 and I'm ready to ride again. The Rail is the Viagra of the middle age mountain bikers. If you have the disposable income, do you want to have fun or be buried with your money?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

teK-- said:


> Still too heavy. Need to knock about 10lb off to be 'the best ebike for me'. Happy to to achieve that with a smaller motor and battery.


Yes, there are two major categories of emtbs today... the 50 lb ones and the sub-40 lb ones. They cater to different markets where the sub-40 ones have less power and use modular batteries. The sub 40 lb ones are better for xc athletic types and those who mix electric and analog bikes in their weekly routine.

Since there are few choices and since low weight pursued, a lot of money is required unfortunately. The best options are:
Specialized Levo SL
Orbea Rise
Trek E-Caliber


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Good to know! Yeah the Knock Block is just a tiny aluminum stop on the headset. It's hard to see how it will stop the whole front end from swinging around during a big crash.
> 
> What's really needed is is rubber blocks on the down tube. These will cushion the blow and they will allow maximum steering angle.












I doubt rubber is going to hold up to the same force that Knock Block's aluminum bit has to hold up to in a front-wheel wash-out crash.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Yes, there are two major categories of emtbs today... the 50 lb ones and the sub-40 lb ones. They cater to different markets where the sub-40 ones have less power and use modular batteries.


Yes! My Rail weighs over 50#.
Meanwhile my 107# GF has a size small Levo SL on order that should weigh less than 38#. Less boost but at her weight it should be perfect.
Meanwhile I'm a big guy and come from an off-road moto background -- I want max power and to me a 50+# bike feels way light compared to any piece of motorized equipment I've ever ridden.
Options ... cool.
=sParty


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

JulioBTLL said:


> I bought a Rail 7 and its the best purchase I've made in my life. After 20 years of Mt biking, my body couldn't handle big climbs anymore and I would be nearly bedridden for days recovering after a big ride. Cross country riding didn't click and I stopped having interest in riding. Now I can knock off 20+ miles with 4000ft climbing/descending on trails I've haven't ridden in several years. Instead of a week of recovery, a day or 2 and I'm ready to ride again. The Rail is the Viagra of the middle age mountain bikers. If you have the disposable income, do you want to have fun or be buried with your money?


So good to hear!

I'm a bike tester and I used to ride 3 days a week. Now I ride with ebikes too 50% of the time and I ride 6 days a week. I can ride now during short time windows, recovery days and often right from my doorstep. I'm fitter than ever even though I'm older than ever. Uphill time trial records though are hard unless I train a lot on the analog bike. Very hard to train on an emtb.

What's really surprised me is I've gotten so many people into biking and we can ride together at different assist levels. Big, 3000 foot rides every time. My wife, my son, old riding buddies, college friends, neighbors are all able to ride with me now and get to see what I see.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Varaxis said:


> View attachment 1918327
> 
> 
> Rubber isn't going to hold up to the same force that the aluminum bit has to hold up to in a front-wheel wash-out crash.


Not those rubber blocks.... they are anemic and are not gonna stop anything. 

I have some on other bikes. I'll take a photo later. Bolted on... maybe steel structure under the rubber.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Francis Cebedo said:


> The Levo SL is a revolutionary, lightweight emtb, 2 years ahead of its time. Specialized has been in the game so long, they understand the emtb niche markets even before they mature. I wrote an article here and I pushed the envelope, converting my Levo SL to 32 lbs with battery and pedals. Video: Lightest e-mtb? Sub 32 lb Levo SL complete ebike.


This sounds like exactly what I want. There are so many trails here which involve either shuttling or soul crushing climbs, it would be nice to have something where I could ride fairly normally for most of the day and squeeze the juice bottle on the big long boring climbs. I think Trek is getting into the lightweight eMTB category as well so maybe a little competition will bring prices down a bit. First I gotta get an eBike for Fiona, mine is likely at least a year out.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Ogre said:


> First I gotta get an eBike for Fiona, mine is likely at least a year out.


A year out? Better order today, Ogre. 
=sParty


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Not those rubber blocks.... they are anemic and are not gonna stop anything.
> 
> I have some on other bikes. I'll take a photo later. Bolted on... maybe steel structure under the rubber.


It's been a long time, but I was on on a ride where a guy crashed and the fork somehow forced past the Knock Block. Then it was stuck sideways and he had to wrestle it back into place to finish the day. Maybe they've gotten better in the years since, but it's always struck me as a bad design choice.

If I loved the bike, it probably wouldn't stop me from getting it, but if I see two bikes I like equally and one has a knock block, I'm taking the one without.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Sparticus said:


> A year out? Better order today, Ogre.
> =sParty


Yeah, the way things are going wouldn't surprise me.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Ogre said:


> It's been a long time, but I was on on a ride where a guy crashed and the fork somehow forced past the Knock Block. Then it was stuck sideways and he had to wrestle it back into place to finish the day. Maybe they've gotten better in the years since, but it's always struck me as a bad design choice.
> 
> If I loved the bike, it probably wouldn't stop me from getting it, but if I see two bikes I like equally and one has a knock block, I'm taking the one without.


The stop for Knock Block system is a small V-shaped chip that bolts to the top of the top tube -- held in place by one m5 screw.
That's it -- one m5 screw.
I knew that if I ever crashed and my bars turned hard, that screw would rip right out of its threads, damaging the softer material (in other words, damaging the frame's aluminum top tube).
So I removed the V-shaped chip, filed off the vertical tab on its top (that engages the stem and stops it from turning too far, hence "knock block") and then reinstalled the now meaningless chip.
A simple, easy, quick fix to a system that should never have been implemented on any bike in the first place.
=sParty


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Is that rubber block on that Spec held on by a single M5 screw too? Has to have something else to keep it from rotating, right?


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Superb looking ebike, but $8,400 for a bicycle is some serious coin. l guess that's the way it is now though, but well out of my reach.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Yes, there are two major categories of emtbs today... the 50 lb ones and the sub-40 lb ones. They cater to different markets where the sub-40 ones have less power and use modular batteries. The sub 40 lb ones are better for xc athletic types and those who mix electric and analog bikes in their weekly routine.
> 
> Since there are few choices and since low weight pursued, a lot of money is required unfortunately. The best options are:
> Specialized Levo SL
> ...


Have you done a detailed review on the Rise? I've got one on order...

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

waltaz said:


> Have you done a detailed review on the Rise? I've got one on order...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


No. I don't have one and they're now able to send me one. It checks out really well though on the sniff test.





Complete Bikes: Fully Built Bicycles for Pros | Jenson USA







snp.link





I'll try and track one down with friends.


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## older'nslower (Feb 28, 2009)

"And with so many models starting at an impressive $5499 ..." If I have that kind of disposable income, I'll just pop for the Honda CRF 300L at roughly the same price. As the price of bikes, especially e-bikes, has approached and in some cases, surpassed, the price of motorcycles, it has caused me to start considering returning to them after a 30 year absence. But hey, if the e-bike manufacturers can sell all they can produce, more power to them. I know that's how it works, I'm just not coming along for the ride.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

older'nslower said:


> "And with so many models starting at an impressive $5499 ..." If I have that kind of disposable income, I'll just pop for the Honda CRF 300L at roughly the same price. As the price of bikes, especially e-bikes, has approached and in some cases, surpassed, the price of motorcycles, it has caused me to start considering returning to them after a 30 year absence. But hey, if the e-bike manufacturers can sell all they can produce, more power to them. I know that's how it works, I'm just not coming along for the ride.


Good thing about e-mtbs is they don' have to be very expensive cause they don't have to be that light. The difference in ride between a 50 lb bike and a 48 lb one with all the carbon components is negligible.

The downside of ebikes is the entry price right now is pretty darn high. $4k seems to be the floor for full suspension.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

There are many options to have two-wheeled fun. Road, mountain, singlespeed, gearbox, belt drive, commuter, recumbent, fat, rigid, FS, human-powered, pedal assist, motorized, etc. No single type of "bike" precludes any of the others. Choose as many types as you like and carry on. It's about having fun.
=sParty


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Francis Cebedo said:


> No. I don't have one and they're now able to send me one. It checks out really well though on the sniff test.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

older'nslower said:


> "And with so many models starting at an impressive $5499 ..." If I have that kind of disposable income, I'll just pop for the Honda CRF 300L at roughly the same price. As the price of bikes, especially e-bikes, has approached and in some cases, surpassed, the price of motorcycles, it has caused me to start considering returning to them after a 30 year absence. But hey, if the e-bike manufacturers can sell all they can produce, more power to them. I know that's how it works, I'm just not coming along for the ride.


This is one of my favorite discussions. A lot of people seem to think bicycles and motorcycles are on a linear scale- imagine someone scoffing at a $300 pair of shoes "hey I could buy a bicycle for that much!" I ride bicycles and motorcycles alike- but they give me a vastly different experience. My Turbo Levo is for singletrack mountainbiking and my R1200GS is for covering hundreds of miles on forest roads quickly and comfortably. But the two interests have little overlap. When a customer makes the inevitable 'motorcycle' comment when looking at the high end bicycles in my shop, I always jokingly offer to sell them one of my motorcycles- I usually have around ten of them and usually ride one into work every day.

If you are looking to just get out and see the outdoors in the national forest or BLM land, you can't beat a CRF300L or a XT250 for fun and simplicity. But having owned some higher end motorcycles like the Hayabusa, ZX14, Buell XB12X and a couple BMWs, I can tell you that the technology and manufacturing techniques that go into a performance motorcycle pale in comparison to a mid level bicycle. Even a $30k motorcycle has a lot of cast and stamped parts- they can afford to carry some weight when they have a 100-200hp engine.

On the other hand I wish I could offer a decent e-bike for $1500- imagine all the cars we could get off the road!


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## older'nslower (Feb 28, 2009)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> This is one of my favorite discussions. A lot of people seem to think bicycles and motorcycles are on a linear scale- imagine someone scoffing at a $300 pair of shoes "hey I could buy a bicycle for that much!" I ride bicycles and motorcycles alike- but they give me a vastly different experience. My Turbo Levo is for singletrack mountainbiking and my R1200GS is for covering hundreds of miles on forest roads quickly and comfortably. But the two interests have little overlap. When a customer makes the inevitable 'motorcycle' comment when looking at the high end bicycles in my shop, I always jokingly offer to sell them one of my motorcycles- I usually have around ten of them and usually ride one into work every day.
> 
> If you are looking to just get out and see the outdoors in the national forest or BLM land, you can't beat a CRF300L or a XT250 for fun and simplicity. But having owned some higher end motorcycles like the Hayabusa, ZX14, Buell XB12X and a couple BMWs, I can tell you that the technology and manufacturing techniques that go into a performance motorcycle pale in comparison to a mid level bicycle. Even a $30k motorcycle has a lot of cast and stamped parts- they can afford to carry some weight when they have a 100-200hp engine.
> 
> On the other hand I wish I could offer a decent e-bike for $1500- imagine all the cars we could get off the road!


Ah, if I had the time and the money, sure I would own both. However, I have a limited amount of each for recreational activities, so it's one or the other. Regardless of any differential cost of manufacturing technologies, as the price of the e-bike approaches that of a motorcycle, I begin to lean toward the motorcycle. E-mountain bikes are awesome, but a dirt bike or dual purpose bike is awesome too and if both are going for roughly the same money, I'm going to the motorcycle shop. I don't expect anyone to follow me, in fact I prefer that they don't. (BTW, I think a fairer comparison would be between the Turbo Levo and a YZ125X.)


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## Crit Rat (Mar 13, 2008)

Francis Cebedo said:


> The most helpful answer I can give you is climbing range. I'm 150lbs and fairly fit and this bike as a 625 wh battery. On Eco/Tour mode, I can climb about 6300 feet with this bike on one charge.


How much climbing are you able to get in on an EP8 630wh drivetrain bike?

I want more battery on my next emtb and would definitely consider a Rail but the SC Bullit is quite interesting as well. Specialized seems to have the best efficiency by far at the moment so that might be where I land. Currently I have a '20 Commencal Meta Power 29 and can get 4500' of vert in on a ride if I really milk it and ride ECO the entire time. Maybe could get a little more but the resolution of the Shimano display with 5 bars of battery makes it impossible to know exactly how much capacity is left.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Crit Rat said:


> How much climbing are you able to get in on an EP8 630wh drivetrain bike?
> 
> I want more battery on my next emtb and would definitely consider a Rail but the SC Bullit is quite interesting as well. Specialized seems to have the best efficiency by far at the moment so that might be where I land. Currently I have a '20 Commencal Meta Power 29 and can get 4500' of vert in on a ride if I really milk it and ride ECO the entire time. Maybe could get a little more but the resolution of the Shimano display with 5 bars of battery makes it impossible to know exactly how much capacity is left.


It really feels about the same on the EP8. About 6300 feet of climbing for me. I'll do some testing this week.

The EP8 feels strange in terms of range because the last bar of battery seems to turn off or go into protect mode very quickly! Feel like you should have another 1200 feet of climbing based on the previous 5 battery bars (fuel gauge) and then bam, 200 feet later, it starts shutting down.


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## Crit Rat (Mar 13, 2008)

Francis Cebedo said:


> It really feels about the same on the EP8. About 6300 feet of climbing for me. I'll do some testing this week.
> 
> The EP8 feels strange in terms of range because the last bar of battery seems to turn off or go into protect mode very quickly! Feel like you should have another 1200 feet of climbing based on the previous 5 battery bars (fuel gauge) and then bam, 200 feet later, it starts shutting down.


Nice, thanks for the reply. Good to read that the EP8 and bigger battery is yielding better range, I've read a bit of conflicting data there but not from someone who did back to back comparisons.

Sounds like Shimano did not change the behavior of their system when it gets to the last bar of battery, E8000 behaves exactly the same way. It makes determining max range very difficult.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Quite a few folks have bought the Rail after they tried ole purple


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Seeing all these 50 pound eBikes cropping up more and more makes me wonder how many people are going to ditch roof racks and NorthShore style fork mount racks and switch to low mount racks like the 1up where you don't have to lift the bikes so high.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

you forgot reason 6 - because they line your pockets so nicely when you claim so...


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> you forgot reason 6 - because they line your pockets so nicely when you claim so...


Huh, not an advertiser. Not for a longgggg while.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Ogre said:


> Seeing all these 50 pound eBikes cropping up more and more makes me wonder how many people are going to ditch roof racks and NorthShore style fork mount racks and switch to low mount racks like the 1up where you don't have to lift the bikes so high.


For sure. The exodus from roof racks has been happening in the last decade. It's all about hitch racks now and behind the car transport. Soooo much better for ease of use, noise, and mileage. It's all about tray racks though. Northshore style is kind of a monstrosity in sedans.

Trucks too are the ultimate bike carrying purse.

With ebikes, yes the whole move to behind the vehicle tray racks is accelerated. Some have ramps too to get on to the tray.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Francis Cebedo said:


> For sure. The exodus from roof racks has been happening in the last decade. It's all about hitch racks now and behind the car transport. Soooo much better for ease of use, noise, and mileage. It's all about tray racks though. Northshore style is kind of a monstrosity in sedans.
> 
> Trucks too are the ultimate bike carrying purse.
> 
> With ebikes, yes the whole move to behind the vehicle tray racks is accelerated. Some have ramps too to get on to the tray.


That picture cracks me up, we have a NorthShore rack and I was seriously considering popping it on the back of the Tesla if we ever needed to transport 4 people/ bikes. That will make me think twice, that is damed fugly.

We've already had someone say "Who puts a bike rack on the back of a Tesla?" and that was with the 1up on it.

Also, the reason we got the NS rack is because a friend gave it to us for a song because he bought an ebike and quickly decided he needed a tray style rack.


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## AdventureRider61 (Mar 2, 2021)

older'nslower said:


> Ah, if I had the time and the money, sure I would own both. However, I have a limited amount of each for recreational activities, so it's one or the other. Regardless of any differential cost of manufacturing technologies, as the price of the e-bike approaches that of a motorcycle, I begin to lean toward the motorcycle. E-mountain bikes are awesome, but a dirt bike or dual purpose bike is awesome too and if both are going for roughly the same money, I'm going to the motorcycle shop. I don't expect anyone to follow me, in fact I prefer that they don't. (BTW, I think a fairer comparison would be between the Turbo Levo and a YZ125X.)


It all depends on how much money one wants to spend on fun. Granted, e-bikes seem ridiculously expensive. However, I have a 2018 Beta 300RR dirt bike, and a 2019 Full suspension Haibike All Mountain 2.0 MTB. I actually have more fun on the e-bike, than the dirt bike, and find I take the e-bike out way more often than the dirt bike. The exception to this is the sand dunes, where of course, the dirt bike excels over the mtb.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

AdventureRider61 said:


> It all depends on how much money one wants to spend on fun. Granted, e-bikes seem ridiculously expensive. However, I have a 2018 Beta 300RR dirt bike, and a 2019 Full suspension Haibike All Mountain 2.0 MTB. I actually have more fun on the e-bike, than the dirt bike, and find I take the e-bike out way more often than the dirt bike. The exception to this is the sand dunes, where of course, the dirt bike excels over the mtb.


You can ride the e bike in far more and closer in places around here than Moto as well. No point in being able to rip it up if you have to drive 90 minutes to get there and can only get out every other weekend.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Ogre said:


> that is damed fugly.


what are you talking about? that looks sweet...


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## LevoAddicted (8 mo ago)

I do not agree to statement that the BOSCH keeps pulling while the Brose tail off! 
Have own a trek rail 9 and Specialized Gen2 at the same time. Sold the Rail after two weeks since it stalls at higher cadence's, while the Specialized tuned Brose motor just "kicks". Have not tried EP8 it the Brose motor on different branded bikes though. BOSCH has now launched the Racing edition where this is specifically targeted, high torque at higher cadence as well 👍When those become available i will consider it😊


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