# Sram's New XX1 Group



## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

What is everyones response to the new XX1 Group and idea of 1X11 as a whole?

At first I did the ol eye roll too  .. but after punching some of the gearings into my calculator I began to think it might be something Im looking forward to...

I pretty much ride exclusively 29ers these days, and for me the 10X42 cassette might work perfect with a 28/30 tooth single up front. I currently run 26 low and 36 high with a 11/36 cassette and rarely use my top end... 

I wouldn't mind sacrificing a little tiny bit of top end to keep the extra weight off, extra shifting out and simplicity of a 1x11


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.


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## Mayor69PRS (Sep 5, 2009)

I don't like the idea of having a special hub...


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

Mayor69PRS said:


> I don't like the idea of having a special hub...


It is not the whole hub, just the freehub body. Will work with any DT Swiss star ratchet hub.:thumbsup:


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?

I'm currently loving 1x9. but if I can get 2 more gears all else being equal I'd take it in a heartbeat!

- Rob


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

I don't think it is a problem, Emily Batty raced on it at the last WC race.


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## chrisgardner73 (Oct 12, 2008)

Spinning Lizard said:


> It is not the whole hub, just the freehub body. Will work with any DT Swiss star ratchet hub.:thumbsup:


Good to know! :thumbsup: I also thought that you had to use the SRAM hub, and was wanting to stick with DT240s hubs.

I do like the idea of it, and I'm definitely considering it for the Air 9 RDO that I'm getting started on! The cost may (or may not) sway my decision.


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## mtbmatty (Dec 5, 2007)

RTM said:


> I'm taking a wait-and-see regarding chain management issues. If you make the chain long enough for the 42, won't it be flopping all over the place when you are in the 10? And if you add a chain guide would it hinder the shifting?


I got one word for you, Type 2 rear derailleur

....so maybe it was more than one


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## 245044 (Jun 8, 2004)

Looks like an great set-up to me. I'm selling my blood now and putting the money away in a Christmas fund for this group...Only 127 more quarts and I'll be ready.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

muzzanic said:


> I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.


At least until you decide youve hardened up you can change the front cog without a lot of trouble just slides strainght over the arm and pedal. :thumbsup:

From what ive read, price is somewhere in the ballpark of $1200 and the clutch rear deraillieur plus some new movement system solves the chainflop.

I would give it a go if i knew what the ratios equated to compared to a 22/36 or a 24/39 2 x 10 system.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

mopartodd said:


> Looks like an great set-up to me. I'm selling my blood now and putting the money away in a Christmas fund for this group...Only 127 more quarts and I'll be ready.


great point. I tend to get overly excited until the price reels me back in.

"wow, I'm all over that!" quickly turns to, "wow, this old stuff is fine."


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## ssalmons (Apr 15, 2008)

I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....


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## Toff (Sep 11, 2004)

The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Toff said:


> The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.


I agree with this. Perhaps we will see a "X01" model in 11-42 that fits a standard freehub body. Racing with 34x11-36 now, I would be absolutely thrilled to have that gear range.

It should go without saying that not everyone has DT Swiss or SRAM rear hubs. I have Industry 9 wheels and also a wheelset with ZTR hubs. I'd love to hear them announce their XX1-compatible freehub bodies, but I haven't heard that from them or any other of the many companies out there that make rear hubs.


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## pulser (Dec 6, 2004)

I have x9 hubs so I guess I could give it a try. But that cassette is going to be like $400 and I bet the chain will be over $100. That's just too much money for stuff that I will replace twice a season. I really hope this trickles down to less expensive parts.


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## rwitte (Apr 6, 2004)

ssalmons said:


> I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....


Amen! Love the overall concept, but just don't understand the need to go through with what it took to get the 10T. I run 1x9 34T-11/32T and 1X10 32T-11/34T and can count on 1 hand how many times I ever even use the 11T. I'll be curious how compatible (or incompatible) the chain will be with any cassette other than this XX1 10/42T. Not hopeful on that though.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

rwitte said:


> Amen! Love the overall concept, but just don't understand the need to go through with what it took to get the 10T. I run 1x9 34T-11/32T and 1X10 32T-11/34T and can count on 1 hand how many times I ever even use the 11T. I'll be curious how compatible (or incompatible) the chain will be with any cassette other than this XX1 10/42T. Not hopeful on that though.


Its a special chain that designed narrower that normal chains and i suppose its designed exclusively to run on the front Crank due to the longer tooth length of crank


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

ssalmons said:


> I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....


Agreed, I never even use my 11T on the 26er.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.


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## pulser (Dec 6, 2004)

ssalmons said:


> I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....


I think you might be missing the point. From what I understand about the group Sram wants it to be used for every thing from down hill to world cup XC racers to every day riders. XC racers will want the 10 and as well as the 42.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

wc dh riders already use a single ring and a close ratio road cassette so that is happening...


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## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

*my thoughts as well*

i've been entertaining losing the front derailleur, shifter and one ring even with the existing setup, just to try it... 34 size front ring should do it, i think...



muzzanic said:


> I'm sure that I will give it a go, I think it will be bang on 95% of the time & I will just have to harden up for the rest.


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## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

b-kul said:


> i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.


good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t. 

It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc. 

All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

The gearing range of the 1x11 seems fine to me, but I wonder about the ability to quickly drop or jump up several gears like you can do with a front derailleur


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Toff said:


> The special freehub body turns me off of it. Their cassette will be stupid expensive also. Otherwise I would like it. I love my 1x9.


I agree, my biggest turnoff was knowing the price and life expectancy of that XX cassette. Ive run XX 11/36 before and though they are freaking awesome! the almost $400 price tag isn't...

Not to mention, is SRAM going to offer a single replacement for the 42 alloy ring? They did for the 36Tooth 10 speed but then DROPPED IT! Im still bitter over that :madman:
One of the #1 reasons I don't buy XX cassettes anymore...


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## kuk2 (Dec 8, 2010)

I think it is awesome, like the idea about the 1x. 
I think they will do as they did with the "old" xx. They are the only who have a 11 speed mtb cassette, så you have to buy a new xx cassette when it wears out. But in a year or 2 they will come with some cheaper options for 1x11 X0 and X9. 

Right now i have 2x10 on 1 bike and 1x10 on the other bike. And i really like the simplicity of 1 chainring. But sometimes i would be nice to have a little lower gear.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

*Nevermind...*



rockcrusher said:


> It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.


Im no physics major, so forgive on this.... but if total gear ratios are all equal is there any additional torque on the free hub..?

I would think that only lowering the gear ratios would apply additional torque, no?

EDIT:

Sorry crusher I re-read your post and was confused at first. In response; as far as I can tell SRAM's not intending to further lower the standard gear ratios with the 1X11 group. I believe the smallest chainring looks like they will offer for this group is a 28t. Im sure most will probably run 32/34t up front though, so it really should keep in line with the current standard gearings.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

osokolo said:


> good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...


smaller than 33 would be better for me because as of now i spend most of my time in the top few gears of my cassette but ymmv.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Looking forward to the Shimano version. I'm basically thankful that SRAM is doing something big to introduce something that could shake up the freehub spline standard. I really like their dome cassette construction concept, which helped opened up freehub ideas like the one Kappius has.

Design Philosophy | Kappius Components

Also thankful that SRAM is helping to get away from micro drive, which the weight weenies helped solidify. I like the benefits that using larger rings and cogs offer. 26/39 with a wider range cassette (11-36), was a good idea, at least for hardtails and the few suspension designs optimized for it.

As for the 1x idea, I'm glad that they added such a gear to mimic a 39x11, as that bothered me more than not having something to mimic a 26x36 when trying to run a 32t and 11-36. I like the teeth profiling, and basically treating the drivetrain as a full system and making it work together in way much better than any conversion nowadays would perform.


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## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

meh, I'm with the wait and see crowd. 1x8 is fine for me with 34t being the biggest. I could see 10-42 being useful at some trails around. With that cassette I could easily enough ditch the 32 upfront and run 34 instead. Of course it'll all have to wait for my new bike anyway.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Abso-f'n-lutely....*



ssalmons said:


> I think SRAM made a big mistake by requiring a special freehub simply for the sake of having a 10 tooth cog. They could (should) have made a 10 speed cassette, 11x42 and been done. Maybe Shimano will do it right.....


Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Well, more gears would help make the spread between gears from 10/11/12/13t to the 42t cog smoother. The spacing isn't changed from current 10spd spacing. They just found more room to stick in an extra cog, taking advantage of the space between the spokes and the biggest cog on a standard 10spd cassette. It's more like 10+1.

In an industry where innovation used to be more about making things bigger in diameter or attaching something to another slightly differently... this does attach things differently and increases "diameter", but they go way further than just that. This is true innovation, IMO. Would love to see even more things taken further. Lots of good innovation recently, like anglesets, clutch RDs, dropper posts, etc. This has quite some potential of making that list, though I hope it doesn't become a mess like tubeless, axle, and crank/bb "standards", where a bunch of brands come up with their own way of mounting a cassette or whatever.


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## bootsie_cat (Nov 3, 2004)

I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

*This thread needs some porn...*


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Shimano's take on it: internally geared hub that would stand up to off road cycling?


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

bootsie_cat said:


> I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
> The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.


They're offering a 28T chainring. 24/36 is identical to 28/42.


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## banditx552 (Feb 25, 2012)

Seems like the chains are just getting thinner and thinner...


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## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

Miker J said:


> Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.


I would agree with this....


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## osokolo (Jan 19, 2004)

*forget the torque for a moment*

Questions is - do we really need rear cog that is bigger than the front ring? it will look ridiculous...

I often ride with single speeders and the hills that these guys ride are sometimes crazy... I think the geared crowd can learn a thing or two from SS crowd... for starters - riding one gear up - often requires same effort - plus the speed goes up... Lots of times we downshift - because we can, not because we have to...

1x10 is fine... wider range cassette is also fine, but going over 40 is ridiculous... for those that need more torque - there is 2x10... I don't think 1x10 will work for masses anyway...



Ace5high said:


> Im no physics major, so forgive on this.... but if total gear ratios are all equal is there any additional torque on the free hub..?
> 
> I would think that only lowering the gear ratios would apply additional torque, no?
> 
> ...


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

*I thought yo liked the idea?*



osokolo said:


> Questions is - do we really need rear cog that is bigger than the front ring? it will look ridiculous...


Looks aside, the end gearing is all that should matter right?



osokolo said:


> Lots of times we downshift - because we can, not because we have to...


I think your absolutely right, its amazing what you can do if you actually remove some lower gears from your drivetrain that one might actually use normally. End up sprinting up hills with less total effort than spinning a low gear up.



osokolo said:


> 1x10 is fine... wider range cassette is also fine, but going over 40 is ridiculous... for those that need more torque - there is 2x10... I don't think 1x10 will work for masses anyway...


Im one that would be very interested in loosing my front derailleur if I really could for my "ride everywhere" bikes. For me its just not possible on a 1x10, its close, but not good enough for the variety I ride. So a 1x11 seems almost perfect. I agree it would be better to drop the 10t cog use a standard 11t and normal free hub. Than with a 30/32t chainring up front 42t in back and there is almost nowhere off limits with that setup.

I hear guys talk a lot about the single speeders and thats fine, but everyone has their limits. The only time I find myself really making good use of my low gears is on relentless steep mountain side climbs. Can some single speeders get up steep technical mountain climbs also sure, but the geared guys can keep spinning up climb when the SS'ers need to stop and rest. So IMO, the advantage is never needing to take breaks or hike a bike in the extremely difficult areas and just keep cranking.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Out of the saddle grunts allow tall gearing on a SS. When I was in good shape, in mountainous terrain I pushed a 2:1 on my rigid 29er all the time. But, on my full squish, sit and spin bike, I've always been a granny guy.


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## Mayor69PRS (Sep 5, 2009)

I just can't see how chains getting thinner is better. I know they have crazy R&D, but these potential stress loads freak me out. Not that I'm a weight weenie...but are we adding weight on again? Or is it neutral to less with one less ring up front? It's an interesting concept...just too proprietary IMO. I've been running my 1x10 hard tail (32x12-36) and its been great! I was doing a 34 up front and it has made me a better rider. I think the goal is to find a way to machine a less gear cassette that shifts smooth, has a good spread, and has a thicker chain....shush I'm already designing it...hehe


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

banditx552 said:


> Seems like the chains are just getting thinner and thinner...


According to bike rumor the chain is actually chunkier instead of thinner 

Hands On! SRAM XX1 1×11 Group - Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I think the new XX1 is an overpriced over hyped piece of kit for people who are trying to compensate for there lack of mountain biking skill......

That said I will give a much more informative review once I get my dirty hands on it
I'm hopeless 
I want

Head down in shame
Sj


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Does anyone know if the cassette will work with a standard hub or is there a dedicated XX1 Sram hub?


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

the new cassette only works with some sram hubs and dt swiss

SRAM XX1 Hub Details | ridingagainstthegrain

Sj


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

That is unfortunate. But thanks.


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## DFYFZX (Jun 19, 2009)

Honestly, I think most pawl type hubs couldn't handle the torque of a 28/42 combo anyway. I have a feeling only hubs with ?ring drives?, or whatever King and DT use, will be up to the strength standard. I ride with a guy that has a 36t cassette and he shreds cheap SRAM hubs right and left. He could have bought a King about 5 grenaded hubs ago if he added up what he's spent on replacement hubs and wheel builds but he keeps convincing himself he's too broke for a King. Whatever. I don't see 42t cassettes being friendly to the current crop of underengineered hubs out there. SRAM may be protecting their collective butts over tons of accusations of their new stuff blowing up hubs or they may simply be cashing in on a new technology. Either way I'm glad they're doing it As a 1xXX fanatic, this is huge news to me! I'm not buying XX level stuff but when X9/XT hits the market I'll have enough saved up and pull that trigger Helps I already have a 240s hub


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

28/42 has the same torque load as 24/36 
both have a gear ratio of 1.5 to 1
one just has more chain wrap

Sj


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste. And the cassette only being compatible with SRAM or DT hubs? Total failure by SRAM thinking the masses are going to pony up $400 or so to test their gear for them.

I'm glad I ride SS, this just looks ridiculous.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

SlowerJoe said:


> 28/42 has the same torque load as 24/36
> both have a gear ratio of 1.5 to 1
> one just has more chain wrap
> 
> Sj


The force on the chain is less with the bigger cogs on both ends. Otherwise, you are right. Torque at the shafts is the same. Dunno if chain tension difference matters much. May affect shifting a bit. Weight with overall larger gears is slightly higher. It's all trade-offs.

As for XX1, too rich for me.


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## bog (Jun 3, 2004)

rockcrusher said:


> I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.
> 
> It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.
> 
> All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.


So you're saying that manufacturers shouldn't make gearing for people that have really long steep climbs or for people that can't quite make it up with higher gearing? We go out on our bikes to ride them and not to walk.

What about people like me that have a bad knee and need lower gearing to spin up the steep climbs? I guess I shouldn't be riding at all hey!

Options of any kind are great for the industry because they keep all of us riding. Choose a SS if you want but don't push them on others.


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## Vrock (Jan 24, 2004)

The best part about this XX1 Group is how it is going to affect 29ers....... Think about Kona Honzo chainstays (414mm) for every bike. It's a game changer.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I'm running a 32 front 36 rear on my new heavy duty 29er. I can get up everything I have tried so far, but I haven't tried the really steep trails yet and I'm pretty sure it's going to be a struggle. Particularly if I'm tired or having an off day or it's a little slick. It's hard to modulate traction with too high of a gear. 

I can't run a front der because it will be too far from the rings to shift right and would interfere with my rear linkage. So I'm stuck with 1 ring. Or a middle and a big ring. I can probably engineer some kind of adapter bracket but having a 28 42 would be great.

Personally I enjoy the accomplishment of riding up something that seems unridable. Going up it slowly isn't of concern. Walking up it sucks. 

As far as having a 10 tooth high, that is good too for when you need it and have a single smaller ring. That is the whole point. Not to run a big ring with a 10.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

azjonboy said:


> I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste. And the cassette only being compatible with SRAM or DT hubs? Total failure by SRAM thinking the masses are going to pony up $400 or so to test their gear for them.
> 
> I'm glad I ride SS, this just looks ridiculous.


Pretty sure some folks are misunderstanding the whole XX1 group's purpose. SRAM isn't asking anyone to "test" out new gear ratios, torque loads, designs for weak riders, or making us think we need more gears at all...

The XX1 allow's guys like us running a 2x10 (20 gears) to switch to a 1x11, less total gears, more simplicity, without making any significant changes to the highest and lowest gear ratio's...


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

The "10T is too high", or "42T is too low" arguments seem kind of silly. The cassette offers you a (large) range, and you choose how high or low that range is with the size of the chainring.

11-42 would make a single ring very viable for me, I don't think the 10T is worth the loss of hub compatibility. Here's hoping someone puts out a 10-speed 11-42 version.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

bootsie_cat said:


> I think it 1x11 will work great for those who already like and use a single ring. For others... Not so much.
> The lowest gear is not low enough if you live in an area where you use a 24/36 low gear.


28 tooth front ring gives the same as a 24/36 low gear with a 33/12 "high" gear I believe or thereabouts


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

spsoon said:


> 1-42 would make a single ring very viable for me, I don't think the 10T is worth the loss of hub compatibility. Here's hoping someone puts out a 10-speed 11-42 version.


That would be pretty nice. I run a 36 ring x 11-34 9 speed cassette on my 5" travel bike. Love the single ring w/chain guide. Silent, simple and reliable. And perfect for most of my riding but a couple of the bigger mountains are proving to be quite a challenge. I just need to get stronger I guess!

- Rob


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

spsoon said:


> The "10T is too high", or "42T is too low" arguments seem kind of silly. The cassette offers you a (large) range, and you choose how high or low that range is with the size of the chainring.
> 
> 11-42 would make a single ring very viable for me, I don't think the 10T is worth the loss of hub compatibility. Here's hoping someone puts out a 10-speed 11-42 version.


This^

The 10-42 cassette range gives a front ring tooth difference of about 10 teeth vs a 12-36 cassette.

1x11 speed vs 2x10 speed
28 x 10-42 = 24/34 x 12-36
30 x 10-42 = 26/36 x 12-36
32 x 10-42 = 27/38 x 12-36
33 x 10-42 = 28/40 x 12-36
34 x 10-42 = 29/41 x 12-36
36 x 10-42 = 31/43 x 12-36

rounded up or down at .5

G


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

I like the fact that front rings can be changed fairly quickly. At some point I would really like to get this. Hopefully it comes down to an x9 pricepoint version at some point. I'd probably never need more than the 28 but would get a 30 or 32 too just in case.

G


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

that cassette gonna get so chewed up in long grass/overgrown trails and how much is its gonna be to replace at most every 12 months? 
had to be done as a concept i suppose but not for me...


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Where I ride we keep our trails pretty cleared. Besides I've never had grass chew up a cluster. That must be some pretty bad ass grass lol.

I think you all are starting to reach a bit far in trying to come up with things about this this idea to criticize.

The only thing about it that I don't like is that I have to build a dedicated rear wheel to run it and use hubs I usually wouldn't buy. But...oh well. Besides if it does take off some of the smaller hub builders will likely jump on board.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I have mine a pree order with LBS so we will see
going to run it with a 32 
got the 28 also just hoping I get to moab again next year
anyone who can do the slickrock trail with 1x10 is a bigger man than me

Sj


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## pulser (Dec 6, 2004)

azjonboy said:


> I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste.


Do you race? I use mine just about every time I ride the thing.


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## octavius (Sep 26, 2008)

modifier said:


> Where I ride we keep our trails pretty cleared. Besides I've never had grass chew up a cluster. That must be some pretty bad ass grass lol.
> 
> I think you all are starting to reach a bit far in trying to come up with things about this this idea to criticize.


trust me, im not taking a swipe, my main problem with this is bigger clusters/narrow chains in general is that they get clogged up in long grass/heather more than older clusters that are more 'open'. i remember noticing a difference between the spacing (and clogging up) changing from a 6 speed to 7 speed way back when...

riding in scotland and sometimes on very overgrown trails (that only i seem to know exist it would appear).

all for innovation and a fan of sram although im 'all shimano' at the moment.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Yeah clogging in extreme conditions may be an issue. Plus I just got my first 10 speed cluster and I noticed that the derailleur and hanger need to be super straight or it doesn't shift worth a shite. So if 10 is worse than 9 which is worse than 8, then 11 might be a real problem if you ever fall on the right side. But we never do that, do we? Yeah right.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

azjonboy said:


> I really don't see how the majority of mtn bikers can possibly need an 11t cog. That's typically the largest gear on road cassettes. On a mountain bike, it's a waste. And the cassette only being compatible with SRAM or DT hubs? Total failure by SRAM thinking the masses are going to pony up $400 or so to test their gear for them.
> 
> I'm glad I ride SS, this just looks ridiculous.


But the road bikes have like a 53 or 54 tooth chain ring, If someone was going to run a 28 tooth front ring then they would often be looking to use the 11 or 10 tooth gear.

$400 for a XX1 setup ? If you can get them for that I will take 100 of them ASAP.

Doesn't sound like you have any idea what you are talking about with this setup, But don't worry you don't have to buy 1.

Just leave it to us guys that love cool stuff. :thumbsup:


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

Im all for this setup ...as a triple 9 speed user when i tried 2 x 10 i just found it much easier to use.....two cogs at the front and ten out back ...less front messing and more rear easiness. (rear always changes easier than front under pressure)

11 speed just sounds better no messy front deraillieur to get stuck with but 11 gears that shift no matter what.

Now the only downside i see is that of early adoption and the price of the cassette and chain every year or so depending on the wear. But thats a similar problem if you buy an XO or XX Cassette they are pretty steep to be throwing money at every year compared to a £50 X9 cassette.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

modifier said:


> Yeah clogging in extreme conditions may be an issue. Plus I just got my first 10 speed cluster and I noticed that the derailleur and hanger need to be super straight or it doesn't shift worth a shite. So if 10 is worse than 9 which is worse than 8, then 11 might be a real problem if you ever fall on the right side. But we never do that, do we? Yeah right.


Is the spacing not the same as 10 speed ?

They have dished the big ring & moved out the small ring so they can keep the spacing good.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

muzzanic said:


> Is the spacing not the same as 10 speed ?
> 
> They have dished the big ring & moved out the small ring so they can keep the spacing good.


I did read that the chain was slightly narrower....i remember this because i had thought maybe a Hammerschmidt up front and eleven out back might have been possible.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Andrewfuzzy said:


> I did read that the chain was slightly narrower....i remember this because i had thought maybe a Hammerschmidt up front and eleven out back might have been possible.


Funny, I read just the opposite, that it was infact chunkier... Could be wrong but checkout what bikerumor said:

Hands On! SRAM XX1 1×11 Group - Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

Ace5high said:


> Funny, I read just the opposite, that it was infact chunkier... Could be wrong but checkout what bikerumor said:
> 
> Hands On! SRAM XX1 1×11 Group - Details, Pics & More! - Bike Rumor


I read this ...

XX1's 11-speed cog spacing will be unique to the group, however, and isn't shared with 11-speed offerings from Shimano (more on that soon) or Campagnolo. Of course, there's a dedicated 11-speed chain as well, with a slightly narrower external width. Inner plate spacing and roller width are unchanged from SRAM's 10-speed chains, though, so wear supposedly isn't adversely affected.

SRAM XX1 Prototype Spotted - This One Goes To 11 - BikeRadar


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Perfectly happy with a 1x10 setup , hell you can run a 2x10 setup for under that price and have it super light weight too .. Seems like a great idea , but personally i feel its a bit too much and over the top . Might as well add a motor now to the bike :madman:... We just need to harden up a bit , practice, and get in better shape .:thumbsup:


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

aedubber said:


> Perfectly happy with a 1x10 setup , hell you can run a 2x10 setup for under that price and have it super light weight too .. Seems like a great idea , but personally i feel its a bit too much and over the top . Might as well add a motor now to the bike :madman:... We just need to harden up a bit , practice, and get in better shape .:thumbsup:


* Starts search in to electrically assisted MTBs *


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Here we go !!! :


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Mike Levy has a pretty good writeup on PB. Clicky.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Yea read that over there but i dunno , it just doesnt sit with me too good. Im sure some people will drop the coin on it tho.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Well, I'm not going to replace my current drivetrain with this, but the 1x wide range cassette idea has merit and I'm interested to watch it develop. Both with the majors like SRAM and the little guys like Canfield, and presumably Hope, if they're still working on their integrated cassette.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but every bike forum I've read has way too much complaining from people about 'the industry' using 'marketing' to try and take their money and make them buy something new (29ers, 650b, tapered steerers, the list goes on). But there are a lot of people looking to buy at any given point, and besides I would guess the majority of bike sales are people buying new complete bikes, rather than enthusiasts building up a frame. I don't remember people complaining about having to buy a new car when side curtain airbags or traction control became common, but any advance in the bike industry has people screaming about being gouged rather than thinking "yeah, that might be cool when I get my next bike in a few years." (edit- like in the "Open letter to the bike industry" thread in Passion... )


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

muzzanic said:


> Is the spacing not the same as 10 speed ?
> 
> They have dished the big ring & moved out the small ring so they can keep the spacing good.


You might be right. Not sure.


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

Andrewfuzzy said:


> I read this ...
> 
> XX1's 11-speed cog spacing will be unique to the group, however, and isn't shared with 11-speed offerings from Shimano (more on that soon) or Campagnolo. Of course, there's a dedicated 11-speed chain as well, with a slightly narrower external width. Inner plate spacing and roller width are unchanged from SRAM's 10-speed chains, though, so wear supposedly isn't adversely affected.
> 
> SRAM XX1 Prototype Spotted - This One Goes To 11 - BikeRadar


Yep, thats a bummer I was hoping to keep my 10 speed chains...


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

Ace5high said:


> What is everyones response to the new XX1 Group and idea of 1X11 as a whole?


I think it is very stupid.

I have been running 1x9 11x36 for a year and I am very happy with it. I would be even much happier with an *11*x42 in 9, 10 or 11 speed. Instead SRAM comes out with a 10x42 that requires a new Hub. So whoever wants a 42 rear needs to buy a new shifter, a new cassette (forget the crank) and ... a new wheel :madman::madman::madman::madman:


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## bog (Jun 3, 2004)

Forget the new wheel, hub or freehub body that is required. What about the $400 cassette!?!? At least if I spend $500 on a new wheel it'll last more than one season. The cassette will be a throwaway!


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Davide said:


> I think it is very stupid.
> 
> I have been running 1x9 11x36 for a year and I am very happy with it. I would be even much happier with an *11*x42 in 9, 10 or 11 speed. Instead SRAM comes out with a 10x42 that requires a new Hub. So whoever wants a 42 rear needs to buy a new shifter, a new cassette (forget the crank) and ... a new wheel :madman::madman::madman::madman:


If you've been very happy with your 1x9 11-36, why do you need to change it just because something new comes out? I'm not changing anything, but I would consider a similar drivetrain for my _next_ bike.

Besides, putting XX1 on an existing bike doesn't necessarily require a new hub or wheel. The list of hub manufacturers who are offering compatible freehub bodies seems to grow by the week.

Everyone seems to gloss over the fact that this group is called *XX*1. It's not X9-1 or whatever they'll call it when it trickles down to more affordable offerings.


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## Machianera (Feb 5, 2011)

This replaces the last 4 cogs of sram cassettes with 25-40. There is also a Shimano version with 42 larger cog coming out soon. No need to change hub, chain etc...


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

Not a FAN of SRAM and in fact I secretly wish they'd SCRAM. I don't know what it is maybe it's just me. I just don't like all their hype. Campagnolo out of my price range but I like the fact they design serviceable componentry. Shimano is what I can afford. I like their designs (for the most part) but I think their product has just a few more tiers than needed. I especially don't like Shimanos multiple finishes yeah just try to make your bike look homogeneous with components from different years. I'm a "Keep it Simple" type.

eh..

Hank


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## Flip D (Sep 16, 2005)

Where are people getting 11-36 9 speed cassettes? I have the HG61 but that thing is heavy and made the rear of my bikes noticeably heavier. The only upgrade I'm looking for is a ligher wider range 9 speed cassette.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Flip D said:


> Where are people getting 11-36 9 speed cassettes? I have the HG61 but that thing is heavy and made the rear of my bikes noticeably heavier. The only upgrade I'm looking for is a ligher wider range 9 speed cassette.


I'm not aware of any. That's why a lot of people are going 10 spd, to get the 36.


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

modifier said:


> I'm not aware of any. That's why a lot of people are going 10 spd, to get the 36.


Weenies...36..pfff....I want one I'm 9 speed.

Hank


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

this is a 1x system for posers.

Gimme a 12-32 11 speed cassette on a normal freehub and Ill consider. Dont want or need a 42t or a 10t.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

If it costs that much it is pretty much out of the question, but the reason to run it has nothing to do with being fashionable. I guess there are guys out there who buy bike parts to be "cool" but I have never met one and personally I have no interest in what others are riding. Usually 95% of them are way behind the curve anyhow. The only reason I would entertain a system like this is because I have bikes that can't run a front derailleur. That's it.

Since I don't need a 32/11 on a 29er around here maybe looking into a smaller front ring in the middle position will get me what I need at a lot less trouble and money. I'll have to do the math and I still won't have crawler gears for super technical but a 28/36 would at least be easier on the knees and suffice most of the time.


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## Gabriel J (Oct 17, 2009)

I can see the merit of any 1X system, and I use a 1x9 setup on one of my bikes...But this one doesn't interest me in the slightest. The expense to upgrade vs actual benefit just isn't there.

SRAM *$$-1*....No thanks.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

Gabriel J said:


> I can see the merit of any 1X system, and I use a 1x9 setup on one of my bikes...But this one doesn't interest me in the slightest. The expense to upgrade vs actual benefit just isn't there.
> 
> SRAM *$$-1*....No thanks.


SRAMs XX = Cost full stop.

Then again if your a racer then cost probably isnt a problem so a high end groupset that trickles to the affordable end for others isnt a bad thing.....like formula1 trickling down to road cars


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## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

Gabriel J said:


> I can see the merit of any 1X system, and I use a 1x9 setup on one of my bikes...But this one doesn't interest me in the slightest. The expense to upgrade vs actual benefit just isn't there.
> 
> SRAM *$$-1*....No thanks.


I'm with you. Originally I was wait and see about the xx1, but after finding out the cost associated with it, I'll pass. My 1x8 gives me plenty of range. 12 - 34. I rarely use the 12 and the 34 is my granny gear. The trails by me don't merit the need for a 42t rear anyway. As is I'm considering bumping the front from 32 to 34.


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## PHS (Sep 5, 2009)

As I looked through this thread, I did not see any actual pricing for this group. Does anyone know what the retail price on XX1 will be? Thx.


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## .RJ (Feb 22, 2009)

PHS said:


> As I looked through this thread, I did not see any actual pricing for this group. Does anyone know what the retail price on XX1 will be? Thx.


$1500 for the whole lot


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Expensive and I think the move to a new freehub for just 10t is a bad idea, but overall I'm blown away, I think it's a terrific innovation. Definitely not hating on SRAM for what they came up with. If they come out with a 11-42t cassette for those of us with investments in wheels, I'm sold,


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

There is one thing to consider with having such a wide ratio range on a cassette and that is that if it had less cogs there would be even more space between choices. Not that that would be a deal breaker but proper gear choice is nice.

So $1500 is for everything including the dedicated wheel? Or are they offering just a hub? That's a lot but not too bad if the cassette is $400 by itself. Crankset, chain, shifter, hub, cassette, derailleur and what ever else.


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## aspms (Mar 29, 2011)

None is forcing you on this groupset- sram is just gives you more choice and there will be folks who will be using it- including me hopefully next season  I think it's perfect groupset for my type of xc riding and that 10t will be really useful.

If you look on prices on this side of pond- it actually costs the same as current xx- only +80eur for cassette compared to current xx and +90eur for dt freehub to rebuild my current wheelset but you save it on fd and shifter.

maintenance wise- chainrings costs the same as xx only cassette will be 80eur more expensive but that's fine with me if it lasts at least whole racing season. (won't be using it for training)


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## High Desert Norwegian (Nov 11, 2010)

I am currently riding XX and I have the following observations after nearly 2 seasons on it. Sram needed to make this change to 1X for the group to appeal to more rider types and terrain. It needed a wider / lower range availablity / ring versatility, particularly for 29rs. Current 2x10 XX was built for cross country racers in my opinion. Gazelle type creatures that ride fast all the time and push big gears. The current XX crank bolt pattern will not allow anything smaller that a 26t on the front. A 26 x 36 on a 29r is just not low enough for long high altitute climbing around here... unless you are a superfit gazell. Possible, yes but my relatively fit 47 year old knees protest after a long day in the saddle up high pushing a 26 x 36 over roots and rocks. Down lower in the high desert.. 26 x 36 is mostly ok but as a current XX user, I would like more ring options. It looks like the new group provides this.

I was thinking 1 x 10 already and was getting ready to (and probably will) purchase a different crank set that can fit a 24 tooth ring when I heard about this new group. I am thinking a double with a bash and 24 tooth ring. I will miss the high end (rarely) but will use more of the current cog stack. 

In addition, these aforementioned racers are why you have a 10 tooth cog. Because the pros can push it and will use it. If the pros did not need / want the 10 tooth, it would not be on the stack. my two cents.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I don't understand's some people's thinking. The last post made a point that I hoped more people would see, about this being oriented towards the racers, but the way he justifies how he should be on XX or XX1 just baffles me. Are triple cranksets just not cool anymore?


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> I don't understand's some people's thinking. The last post made a point that I hoped more people would see, about this being oriented towards the racers, but the way he justifies how he should be on XX or XX1 just baffles me. Are triple cranksets just not cool anymore?


Theyre fine, IMO, my Stumpy has 3 x 9 and its fine, but ive ridden 2 x 10 and for me at least i think its better....

Reason being the Rear Der shifts far easier than the Front and with only one shift in either direction needed on the front i found it easier to react to the terrain without stalling.

Maybe its my style of riding or the type of terrain i encounter but when i tried it i just fell in love with it......thats why i feel that 1 x 11 would probably work in a similar way.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*True...*



High Desert Norwegian said:


> I am currently riding XX and I have the following observations after nearly 2 seasons on it. Sram needed to make this change to 1X for the group to appeal to more rider types and terrain. It needed a wider / lower range availablity / ring versatility, particularly for 29rs. Current 2x10 XX was built for cross country racers in my opinion. Gazelle type creatures that ride fast all the time and push big gears. The current XX crank bolt pattern will not allow anything smaller that a 26t on the front. A 26 x 36 on a 29r is just not low enough for long high altitute climbing around here... unless you are a superfit gazell. Possible, yes but my relatively fit 47 year old knees protest after a long day in the saddle up high pushing a 26 x 36 over roots and rocks. Down lower in the high desert.. 26 x 36 is mostly ok but as a current XX user, I would like more ring options. It looks like the new group provides this.
> 
> I was thinking 1 x 10 already and was getting ready to (and probably will) purchase a different crank set that can fit a 24 tooth ring when I heard about this new group. I am thinking a double with a bash and 24 tooth ring. I will miss the high end (rarely) but will use more of the current cog stack.
> 
> In addition, these aforementioned racers are why you have a 10 tooth cog. Because the pros can push it and will use it. If the pros did not need / want the 10 tooth, it would not be on the stack. my two cents.


Most current and recent past drivetrains are geared too high for the average, fit, rider on a FS 29er, and probably even a 26" FS bike. Those who state otherwise, just take a look at what cassette cogs wear out first. I've never seen the small rear cogs wear out, even in my xc racer days on a 26" bike. In big hilly terrain, I use to easily push a 2:1 on a 29er SS and win races. Point is I know how to push big gears, but FS bike are ridden differently, and need to be geared differently.

Having the versatility to radically "customize" your drivetrain to your bike and style by changin one front ring is a huge, unprecedented, beneficial move.

The fly in the ointment is the 10t cog. Like tits on a bull, it is not needed, and worse yet, it's going to require costly hub modifications. SRAM is really dropping the ball on that point, and as I said before, Shimano will walk away with this if they use the same concept and eliminate the hub issue and drop the 10t.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

Miker J said:


> Most current and recent past drivetrains are geared too high for the average, fit, rider on a FS 29er, and probably even a 26" FS bike. Those who state otherwise, just take a look at what cassette cogs wear out first. I've never seen the small rear cogs wear out, even in my xc racer days on a 26" bike. In big hilly terrain, I use to easily push a 2:1 on a 29er SS and win races. Point is I know how to push big gears, but FS bike are ridden differently, and need to be geared differently.
> 
> Having the versatility to radically "customize" your drivetrain to your bike and style by changin one front ring is a huge, unprecedented, beneficial move.
> 
> The fly in the ointment is the 10t cog. Like tits on a bull, it is not needed, and worse yet, it's going to require costly hub modifications. SRAM is really dropping the ball on that point, and as I said before, Shimano will walk away with this if they use the same concept and eliminate the hub issue and drop the 10t.


Nailed it. This feels an awful lot like a move to sell a bunch of proprietary crap. I just want a larger cog in the back and I'll keep my 10 speed. Hopefully Shimano will get this right sooner rather than later.


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## .RJ (Feb 22, 2009)

Freehubs will be $50-100 and drop into existing wheels assuming the wheel/hub mfr has something available. DT, notubes, american classic, and a bunch of others already have something ready. DT owns the patent but is licensing it out to other companies.

SRAM doesnt own DT, so its not like they are making money off of the freehub sales.... I would still prefer a 10 speed 11-42, maybe next year?


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

anybody have any updates on when it will hit the shores
QBP keeps upping it 
was hoping to have mine for Iceman

Sj


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Just spoke with QBP and they said it wont be available till early November! I cant ride my mountain bike till this comes out this is killing me!!


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I was hoping sooner because I got in on the early buy in
Oh well 

Sj


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

freehubs available

DT Swiss XX1 135x5mm QR Freehub Body - Fits 180, 190, 240, 350 Hubs - BRAND NEW | eBay


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## kfb66 (Oct 27, 2010)

b-kul said:


> i run 1x10, 33 up front and 11-36 out back. around here i can scoot up most anything, and if i cant, well screw it. walking is ok too.


1x10 29er here, with 11-36 cassette, 32 ring front. I've ridden the bike on trails from the Midwest to Colorado, and never felt the need for a cog higher than the 36, but could have used a cog smaller than 11 in a few xc races that included paved stretches between singletrack. If I can't make a climb with 32x36 ... I'm pretty sure I'd be faster walking!

That said, with a 42 cog, maybe I could switch my front ring to a 34 or 36 and still have my granny, plus higher end gears for fast stretches?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

kfb66 said:


> . If I can't make a climb with 32x36 ... I'm pretty sure I'd be faster walking!


Which is of course what riding bikes off road is all about, all the time. The time it takes to get someplace. 

Nothing to do with climbing a really steep technical hill and developing skills.

Yeah right. :skep: Sounds pretty boring to me.


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## kfb66 (Oct 27, 2010)

modifier said:


> Which is of course what riding bikes off road is all about, all the time. The time it takes to get someplace.
> 
> Nothing to do with climbing a really steep technical hill and developing skills.
> 
> Yeah right. :skep: Sounds pretty boring to me.


To each his own I guess ... climbing any slower than what 32x36 allows is of NO interest to me. Now the skill (and fitness) required to climb steep/technical hills a bit faster is! Again ... to each his own. Options are ALWAYS good I suppose!

As I said, I think I'd find a 42 cog useful as it would allow me to run a taller ring (34 or 36), but I agree with the many posts stating 11 at the bottom instead of 10 ... makes a lot of sense for my riding at least.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't think we are all on the same page 
there are cross country racers and people who would like to ride here :thumbsup:


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

I agree Joe. The people who say they need a 10 or 11 rear cog must be riding fairly flat, groomed trails. Any sustained climbing or endless rollers and tech pretty much confirm what MikerJ said, that most cassettes have the middle cogs worn away before the smaller cogs.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I most likely will ride XX1 with a 28 tooth up front 
this gives me the same low as 36/24 
I also worry about hopping up ledges 
I just want the clearance 

Sj


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I'm waiting for XX1 for my new build and I've been climbing in 24/32, which is a very similar ration to 32/42 of XX1. It is plenty low for anything I've done, and that includes 6+ mile climbs that gain 4,000+ft.

I love the simplicity of XX1, its why I want it.

My wheelset has DT 240 hubs and they are already coverted to work with the XX1 cassette. The xD freehub body isnt exactly cheap, but it is a simple swap that took minutes and the part is available now. I even upgraded to a 36 star racket while I had it apart. When ordering the XX1 freehub body make sure you get the right axle width. The end cap off the standard DT Swiss freehub body does* NOT* fit the xD freehub body.


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## premeks (Nov 7, 2008)

*Great in my opinion*

Simplicity with broad range. Definitely consider for next bike. However, as few other people pointed out it is more geared for high gears. I am more concerned about low gears. 28/42 is like today 24/36 - but I have 22/36 for my 29er. I will not get any fitter getting older - but I will have even more $$ to spend on my next bike. 26/42 is close enough, but there is no 26 chairing option for XX1  Until then I will probably pass on that


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## Bullseye Cycle (Sep 30, 2011)

XX1 is trick, but I'm concerned about chain slap (Hate it) Nevertheless, buying a new bike equipped w/ XX1 is a thought. But most of us harder core riders build our own bikes and to add $1,100.00 to save a slight amount of weight and have the latest gearing fad seems pointless. I can think of a dozen other trick things I can add to my Epic for that kind of cake. Carbon wheels/I9 hubs for one...


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## kfb66 (Oct 27, 2010)

Bullseye Cycle said:


> XX1 is trick, but I'm concerned about chain slap (Hate it) Nevertheless, buying a new bike equipped w/ XX1 is a thought. But most of us harder core riders build our own bikes and to add $1,100.00 to save a slight amount of weight and have the latest gearing fad seems pointless. I can think of a dozen other trick things I can add to my Epic for that kind of cake. Carbon wheels/I9 hubs for one...


SRAM Type 2 rear deraillers pretty much eliminate chain slap issues. I'm riding with one now on a 1x10 with 11-36 cassette ... Type 2 der makes a substantial difference in chain tension, and only costs you 50 grams versus standard rear der ... well worth it!!


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

I'm worried about that rear cassette. Will it have the same aluminium cog as the XX cassette does? That big 36T aluminium cog wears out 2x as fast as everything else and basically makes you buy 2 cassettes per year at $350 each


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

The cassette is a single piece of billet steel with an aluminum 42t attached to it. I think it is going to be alot more durable than regular xx cassette.


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## bog (Jun 3, 2004)

So it is the same as the regular XX except that it has one mor cog and a wider range. Both XX and XX1 cassettes are machined from billet steel with an aluminum big cog.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Yup, and the big cog eats itself in 500 miles, so get ready to blow that $400 on another cassette in 6 months unless they sell that ring separately. The rest of the XX cassette is brilliant. Just the big cog sucks and isn't available separately. 

1x is a great idea, but I'd much rather have 1x10 with a 42T big cog made out of steel or an AL cog that I can buy separately


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## Bullseye Cycle (Sep 30, 2011)

trhoppe said:


> I'm worried about that rear cassette. Will it have the same aluminium cog as the XX cassette does? That big 36T aluminium cog wears out 2x as fast as everything else and basically makes you buy 2 cassettes per year at $350 each


The $350.00 XG-1099 (XX) is forged out of one piece billet steel. The $260.00 XG-1080 (XO) is stamped steel with an aluminum 36T ----The XX1 does indeed look like forged billet steel with an aluminum 42T to save weight. Nevertheless you should consider an (XX) vs (X0) for your next cassette.

You must live near/ride in the Rockies, we rarely ride the top cassette CR on the fast and flow-y singletrack here in AZ.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Bullseye Cycle said:


> The $350.00 XG-1099 (XX) is forged out of one piece billet steel. The $260.00 XG-1080 (XO) is stamped steel with an aluminum 36T ----The XX1 does indeed look like forged billet steel with an aluminum 42T to save weight. Nevertheless you should consider an (XX) vs (X0) for your next cassette.
> 
> You must live near/ride in the Rockies, we rarely ride the top cassette CR on the fast and flow-y singletrack here in AZ.


Not sure where you are getting your info from, but the XX 11-36 cassette has an aluminium 36T cog.


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## Bullseye Cycle (Sep 30, 2011)

Yep yer RIGHT!!! DAMN


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## Bullseye Cycle (Sep 30, 2011)

ya the top one is alum... ask me about Bullseye. I got all excited... you're right. :skep:


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

There is no reason to insist upon a 10t, since it's all about the gear ratio between front and rear. If you need a taller gear, just put a bigger chainring in front. If SRAM felt they had to do that with a totally new freehub, it would have been nice to step down to 9t, like the Hope cassette prototypes I've seen. Nonetheless I think it's in their best interest to produce a cassette with 11-42. They can keep on making the new 10-42 as well; I'll bet they sell plenty of both.

Anything below 4t from 1:1 is a luxury to me, and it would be very nice to have 36x10-42 (or 11-42), like what Kulhavy raced in the Olympics. Right now I run 34x11-36 and it races pretty well in XC and marathon, but it would be lovely to have a gear or two above and below.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Bullseye Cycle said:


> ya the top one is alum... ask me about Bullseye. I got all excited... you're right. :skep:


Yea, it's super lame. If SRAM offered the 36T separately and you could buy a $400 cassette and swap out a $50 ring twice a year, sure, great. But it's lame that my $400 cassette is done in 500 miles just because I wore out the big cog.

I do a good bit of climbing, and spend time in the big cog in the rear. Whether it's trying to save time by cross chaining with the front in the big, or just spinning up steeper climbs in granny/granny.

Again, everything is "fixed" with a $70 PG-1070 cassette, and if they offered a X9 level 11-42 so I could run 1x10, I'd be all over that in an instant 

-Tom


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Yep, I'm also disappointed that SRAM never offered the 36T replacement cog as they promised for the XX cassette. I haven't made any effort to avoid that cog either, and used it quite a bit on my 2x10 setup on my other bike.

I don't run 1x10 because the terrain here goes up and down enough that a 32-34t chainring with a 11-36 cassette doesn't have enough of a high gear for fast sections and not enough of a low gear for steep sustained climbs and epic rides. I can totally see people who've been wanting to go 1x10 jump on something like this. I'll just stick to my triple, as my FS bike is designed around it. I will admit that there's only a few sections that I'm able to spin up my 42-11 to about 35 MPH or higher on actual dirt, but I like having that gear, as it feels stable trying to spin it out of the saddle--if I had to spin higher RPMs on a descent to push myself, my balance would be worse and a pedal strike or slipping off the pedal would be more likely to be disastrous.

However, as I posted before, I may be interested in going 1x if a frame was designed for it, and took full advantage of not having to deal with chainring and FD clearance, as opposed to simply converting a bike designed around a triple or double crankset to 1x up front.


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## twowheelfunman (Aug 29, 2008)

I want XX1 on my Superfly 100. Would there be a compatable crank/bootom bracket option?


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

twowheelfunman said:


> I want XX1 on my Superfly 100. Would there be a compatable crank/bootom bracket option?


Yep that is the easy part, It is the wheel free hub that will be the hardest part to sort out.


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## twowheelfunman (Aug 29, 2008)

I need new wheels anyway


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I dont think I'll use the 42t cog for more than a few rides each year. When I get my bike built is should be sub 26 lbs and climbing with 32t front and 36t rear wont be tough. That big 42t will on be used on some of the longer high elevation climbs that are only open for 4 months out of the year around here.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Industry Nine just announced they're producing XX1-compatible freehub bodies, sweet, I'm sold.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

nice :thumbsup:


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Industry Nine just announced they're producing XX1-compatible freehub bodies, sweet, I'm sold.


Excellent! At $80 each, pretty sure I'll be ordering a pair of the shells this winter -- the Tallboy's definitely getting the XX-1 kit.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PHS (Sep 5, 2009)

My understanding is that you can run the XX1 crank as a single speed or a 1x10 with a 10 speed chain. Anybody plan on doing this? 
Doesn't seem like too bad of an option for a carbon crank and easily interchangeable front ring considering the crankset will run around $300.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Are you sure you want to use a 10 or 11-speed chain for your singlespeed? I know a lot of singlespeeders and they tend to go with at least an 8-speed chain's thickness or preferably SS-specific.



PHS said:


> My understanding is that you can run the XX1 crank as a single speed or a 1x10 with a 10 speed chain. Anybody plan on doing this?
> Doesn't seem like too bad of an option for a carbon crank and easily interchangeable front ring considering the crankset will run around $300.


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## PHS (Sep 5, 2009)

I agree and thought the same when I read that the XX1 crank could be run as 1x10 or ss. I run an 870 chain on my ss and have had no issues yet. Curious what others thought of this.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Dude, why would somebody give me negative rep for asking the above question?


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## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Some pros ran XX1 with a 1x10 in the world cup. The teeth will probably be fine for an 8 speed chain. I would call srams tech people.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I dont know if the alternating big/little teeth of XX1 would work with anything else, but it wont be long until we can find out.


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## rwitte (Apr 6, 2004)

That's my plan! Talked to a SRAM rep at my last race in late August, and he verified it would work. The only thing I wasn't sure about from the conversation was whether it required using the 11 spd chain still (for the offsetting wide/narrow fit on the ring) or the 10 spd chain. Still don't really know. 10 spd shitfter and type 2 RD are the other requirements, of course. I run 1x9 and 1x10 with 32T-34T front and no bigger than a 34T cog. I'm fine with that...don't really need the 10-42T and the hassle of that XD cassette body. My main interest is simply losing the need for a chain keeper up front. We shall see if it works out as planned or not!


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## PHS (Sep 5, 2009)

rwitte said:


> That's my plan! Talked to a SRAM rep at my last race in late August, and he verified it would work. The only thing I wasn't sure about from the conversation was whether it required using the 11 spd chain still (for the offsetting wide/narrow fit on the ring) or the 10 spd chain. Still don't really know. 10 spd shitfter and type 2 RD are the other requirements, of course. I run 1x9 and 1x10 with 32T-34T front and no bigger than a 34T cog. I'm fine with that...don't really need the 10-42T and the hassle of that XD cassette body. My main interest is simply losing the need for a chain keeper up front. We shall see if it works out as planned or not!


I am sure a 10 spd chain used with a casette would be strong enough. Maybe using a 10 spd chain for single speeding might compromise the strength of the chain. Maybe we will soon find out.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

Miker J said:


> The fly in the ointment is the 10t cog. Like tits on a bull, it is not needed, and worse yet, it's going to require costly hub modifications. SRAM is really dropping the ball on that point, and as I said before, Shimano will walk away with this if they use the same concept and eliminate the hub issue and drop the 10t.


I wonder if the 42t cassette didn't drive the hub shell change as much as the 10t? Current cassettes chew up alloy freehubs pretty bad today. The new freehub should eliminate this issue (which could be worse with the 42t cassette and smaller chainring options) and allowed an opportunity to add a 10t to keep the gearing range for racers.

Given Shimano has never offered an alloy freehub body on the mtb side, it would be interesting to see if they do indeed offer something on the current body.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

SRAM rep was at my LBS on Tuesday. She said XX1 should be available in 2-3 weeks, and they will be providing a demo bike in the next week or 2 setup with XX1 for people to tryout! I cant wait!


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

I'm putting this group set on a Avenger china carbon will both Q factor sizes work? I do train alot of road so would the 156 work better for transitions between the 2 bikes?


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

chomxxo said:


> Industry Nine just announced they're producing XX1-compatible freehub bodies, sweet, I'm sold.


Hell's yeah! love my I9 even more now


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## O.G (Aug 8, 2012)

they should make another version of it with a different cassette that starts with a 11t instead of a 10t this way it would fit other freehub bodys too, but either way since i converted to 29ers id say that 1 ring front with a jump stop or chainguide is the way to go, i got a gearing of 32x11-34 right now and i can hammer the steepest hills and still get good speed up on flat roads, single front ring will kill out 2x and 3x in a few years im pretty sure, but the x11s price id say is way too much, i get it that its new and it took time and effort to develop it but the price of ~300 € for just the rear cassette seems too much for me, but if id have the financials id already have the x11s on my bike!!


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## kfb66 (Oct 27, 2010)

O.G said:


> they should make another version of it with a different cassette that starts with a 11t instead of a 10t this way it would fit other freehub bodys too, but either way since i converted to 29ers id say that 1 ring front with a jump stop or chainguide is the way to go, i got a gearing of 32x11-34 right now and i can hammer the steepest hills and still get good speed up on flat roads, single front ring will kill out 2x and 3x in a few years im pretty sure, but the x11s price id say is way too much, i get it that its new and it took time and effort to develop it but the price of ~300 € for just the rear cassette seems too much for me, but if id have the financials id already have the x11s on my bike!!


I agree ... make cassette 11-42 to eliminate the free hub issue, and I'm all-in for 1x11. I currently run 1x10 with 32 ring, 11-36 cassette and I love it! That said, a bit taller gearing for fast sections and paved connectors would be welcome, and having a 42 cog would allow me to move up to a 34/36 ring up front.


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

Maybe that will happen when they drop it down to x9 level where it is designed for recreational riders......it will come with an 11T start cog because thats all gear the common rider has the ability to push. The issue here is that this is a world cup XC gruppo.....nothing else. The strength that proper athletes have in their legs demands the maximum high gears.


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

AlexRandall said:


> Maybe that will happen when they drop it down to x9 level where it is designed for recreational riders......it will come with an 11T start cog because thats all gear the common rider has the ability to push. The issue here is that this is a world cup XC gruppo.....nothing else. The strength that proper athletes have in their legs demands the maximum high gears.


The 42T puts much torque on a regular freehub body, when the 36T cassette first came out it was exploding some freehubs.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Spinning Lizard said:


> The 42T puts much torque on a regular freehub body, when the 36T cassette first came out it was exploding some freehubs.


People don't seam to get that all of this is subject to what chain ring size you have at the front.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

muzzanic said:


> People don't seam to get that all of this is subject to what chain ring size you have at the front.


I had that thought about people not really getting it soon after this thread began. Same goes for the 10 tooth. It's not like they are meaning for people to run the 42 with a 22 tooth ring or the 10 with a 44.

Personally I think they should have gone with a 9 while they were at the drawing board. But maybe that small a cog has problems with chain wrap or axle size or something else.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

modifier said:


> I had that thought about people not really getting it soon after this thread began. Same goes for the 10 tooth. It's not like they are meaning for people to run the 42 with a 22 tooth ring or the 10 with a 44.
> 
> Personally I think they should have gone with a 9 while they were at the drawing board. But maybe that small a cog has problems with chain wrap or axle size or something else.


I still haven't got it
looks like it might be a couple more weeks 
as far as the ratios, well it might just be that new math they are teaching in school 
we didn't even have dial up when I was a kid


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## KyleLyons35 (Jul 11, 2010)

Miker J said:


> Shimano can walk away with whole thing in a second if they stick with a 10 speed rear, skip out on the 10t cog, and allow riders to not mess with their hubs. Do a 13-42 range cassette. The only riders who get excited about anything taller than an 12t are those guys riding their mountain bikes on roads.


:nono:Judging from your statement above I'd imagine you do not run a 1X10 etc groupset. A 11t/12t rear cog is crucial if you don't have a big ring in the front.

Now the way to avoid the 10t issue would be simply put a larger tooth chain ring on the front so something like a 36 or 38 front with a 13t/42 rear ten speed would work just fine!


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

38F/42R is just as useless as a 32F/36R for the guys that need to climb. 

For reference, on a 26" 32F/11R is a 5.5 Gain Ratio. A 38F/13R is also 5.5. A 32F/36R is 1.7 and a 36F/42R is also 1.7. So a 32F/11-36R is the SAME THING as a 38F/13-42R. 

What you need is to either a) expand the range (what XX1 gives you), or b) give up somewhere (which you have to do today). 

edit: I had my math wrong. I'll be trying 30F/36R as my climbing gear using the MRP Bling Ring. I think that's enough. I lose my longest two gears as well, which is just fine by me.

-Tom


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

People are still not getting it. LOL.

First off don't think "I only need this___." So..."Anything else that doesn't fit my own personal niche is a waste of effort". 

Some people need high gears cause they ride only on flat smooth trails or they are super strong. Some people need low gears because all they do is technical twisty rocky stuff and if they are going downhill they aren't spinning out. Or they aren't super strong. Scram is trying to to cover the full range while only using 1 ring. If they are going to do that they need a small cog 10 (or better imo 9) and a big cog. All the other stuff about making it really light and their special locking teeth on their rings are just gravy and pretty cool ideas as I see it.

The only real issues are that it has to be proprietary to use the small cog and it costs a lot. Several major hub manufactures are already getting compatible hubs ready to launch so that part isn't too catastrophic and trick new light sh*t that works costs mo money. Sorry. 

I think they have hit a home run.

To all the complainers, how about you go design and build something better and cheaper and get it on the market and maybe we'll buy your product instead. Or to start with list all the other components or revolutionary frames and suspensions you have designed and built that work better than what was already out there. I'll bet that list would be pretty darn short. Ha.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

modifier said:


> People are still not getting it. LOL.


I think I do get it, and what I'm saying is that a 11-38 cassette on a regular hub, along with a Type2 rear der and chain keeper would pretty much handle any scenario. They just need to "make it" :lol:

If you are needing to climb technical rocky singletrack, get a 30T front. If you need to go on smoother trails, throw a 32T or 34T on it. Make it really easy to pop on/off like the spiderless setup that MRP has, and you can even alternate between rides/races easily.

For guys that do truly gigantic rides with very varying terrain (like 100 mile endurance races), they will still want to have the bail out 26T and the gravel/paved road 39T 2x10 combo anyways, as even SRAMs 1XX1 10-42 setup doesn't cover the "whole range".

-Tom


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

XX1 with a 30 tooth has the same range as 26/39 with a 36 tooth cassette minus you highest gear e.g. 39-11
a normal cassette jumps from 11 to 13 teeth
39/13 =3
30/10=3
30/42 = 26/36
Damn you guys suck at math

Sj


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I built up a new bike that is waiting for XX1. I have the XD conversion already done (DT 240 hubs) and the cassette interface looks like a huge step over the old standard. Over the years I've had several cassettes get stuck onto the hub body and the the soft aluminum bodies always tend to get marred up and the cassette ends up with a slight rock to it. I dont see that happening with the new XD interface.

I for one an excited for XX1 and hope to have it on my bike within the next 2 weeks (unless it gets delayed).


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Well...*



KyleLyons35 said:


> :nono:Judging from your statement above I'd imagine you do not run a 1X10 etc groupset. A 11t/12t rear cog is crucial if you don't have a big ring in the front.
> 
> Now the way to avoid the 10t issue would be simply put a larger tooth chain ring on the front so something like a 36 or 38 front with a 13t/42 rear ten speed would work just fine!


Show me picks of worn out 11t cogs to support how much they are needed and used.

On a single , or double, with a 32t max front ring, which is quite common, worn 11t cogs are rarely seen. Most certainly not enough to warrant a 10t that would require an expensive hub overhaul.

Of course this is all my opinion, but wait until Shimano comes out with a similar design with a 11t max that requires no hub overhaul. I bet they'll walk away with this market and prove the theory.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

trhoppe said:


> Make it really easy to pop on/off like the spiderless setup that MRP has, and you can even alternate between rides/races


Don't get me wrong, I really like the MRP spiderless setup, but how is it easier to pop on/off than the xx1 setup? As I understand it, the xx1 allows a ring change without removing the crank. That seems like the easiest setup possible for ring changes.


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

Miker J said:


> Show me picks of worn out 11t cogs to support how much they are needed and used.
> 
> On a single , or double, with a 32t max front ring, which is quite common, worn 11t cogs are rarely seen. Most certainly not enough to warrant a 10t that would require an expensive hub overhaul.
> 
> Of course this is all my opinion, but wait until Shimano comes out with a similar design with a 11t max that requires no hub overhaul. I bet they'll walk away with this market and prove the theory.


Guys, you are missing the other point - a normal freehub can not withstand the torque of a 42T rear. The whole freehub had to be redesigned to handle anything bigger then the 36T AND lower then an 11T.


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## rookie65 (Sep 2, 2012)

How does it handle the torque of a 3 x 9 setup then?


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

rookie65 said:


> How does it handle the torque of a 3 x 9 setup then?


When the 36T first came out, many freehub bodies could not handle the extra torque and exploded. There was a prominent company that even issued a statement not to use their wheels with the 36T or risk freehub failure, which would not be covered under warranty. Since many mfg's have designed their freehubs to handle more torque.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Spinning Lizard said:


> When the 36T first came out, many freehub bodies could not handle the extra torque and exploded. There was a prominent company that even issued a statement not to use their wheels with the 36T or risk freehub failure, which would not be covered under warranty. Since many mfg's have designed their freehubs to handle more torque.


The XX1 crank doesn't come with a 22 granny gear though does it

Again it all depends what chain ring size you run on the front


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

muzzanic said:


> The XX1 crank doesn't come with a 22 granny gear though does it
> 
> Again it all depends what chain ring size you run on the front


Agreed, but you know there is going to THAT GUY who will say it would only be perfect if it had a 22,24,26,28 up front and then when the freehub explodes it will be the wheels fault and want a new free one and come on MTBR to hate on the said product.

Just saying SRAM had to engineer the FH body to handle loads from both ends to prevent this.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Spinning Lizard said:


> Agreed, but you know there is going to THAT GUY who will say it would only be perfect if it had a 22,24,26,28 up front and then when the freehub explodes it will be the wheels fault and want a new free one and come on MTBR to hate on the said product.
> 
> Just saying SRAM had to engineer the FH body to handle loads from both ends to prevent this.


that's kind of a non issue 
28 is the smallest front ring they make
Same stress as a 36/24 combo
If someone runs something smaller and wrecks their gear so what
you can't blame sram if you go outside the design parameters can you

Sj


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

SlowerJoe said:


> that's kind of a non issue
> 28 is the smallest front ring they make
> Same stress as a 36/24 combo
> If someone runs something smaller and wrecks their gear so what
> ...


Not really, how much time have you spent working in a shop? I see it everyday people running things or making adjustments outside of the parameters.

Had a guy this week put a 180mm fork on an EPIC and could not understand why that would void the frame warranty.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Good point....*



Spinning Lizard said:


> Not really, how much time have you spent working in a shop? I see it everyday people running things or making adjustments outside of the parameters.
> 
> Had a guy this week put a 180mm fork on an EPIC and could not understand why that would void the frame warranty.


However, by your rationale, specialized should be beefing up the head tube on the epic frame to handle 180 mm forks.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

So you are saying they should never make XX1 because there are stupid people
Dumbest response ever
Give it up you are wrong

sj

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
boy was I a crab bass ... sorry about that


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Use Sheldon Brown's Gear Calculator - Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator

My analysis (22/33/Bash vs Bling Ring Options vs XX1 Options) - 26" wheels/175mm cranks

Gain Ratios:

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=733657&stc=1&d=1351363177

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=733658&stc=1&d=1351363177

http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=733659&stc=1&d=1351363177


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

Miker J said:


> However, by your rationale, specialized should be beefing up the head tube on the epic frame to handle 180 mm forks.


LOL, very true, but IMO it is just not as obvious with the FH with it being possibly (you maybe right and it is a non-issue) leading to failures.

It is just not as simple as some making it out to be. i.e they could just use an 11T and we wouldn't need a new FH.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

Add American Classic to the list of vendors supporting the new XX1 hub shell:
American Classic Adds XX1 11-Speed Freehub Body, Most 2013 Wheels Available Now - Bike Rumor


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Any new news as to when these will arrive? I need to go for a bike ride!?


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

Bikeradar.com article yesterday reckons its available in the coming weeks so within a month? Priced at$1,449


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Most online places have it listed for around $1250, and I've seen Nov. 4th popup a lot as an available date, but I've also seen early Dec. dates too.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

jdubb12 said:


> Any new news as to when these will arrive? I need to go for a bike ride!?


CRC are saying 27 Nov.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Pro Bike Supply list 11/15 for the build kits, and JensonUSA has a few chainrings in stock now, but lists the cassette as 12/20.


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## tooclosetosee (Aug 2, 2011)

Will this work for a roval control SL 142+ rear wheel? Would it use the DT swiss freehub adapter since the roval wheels have DT internals, or is this going to have to be a part from Specialized?


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## Spinning Lizard (Nov 27, 2009)

tooclosetosee said:


> Will this work for a roval control SL 142+ rear wheel? Would it use the DT swiss freehub adapter since the roval wheels have DT internals, or is this going to have to be a part from Specialized?


Yep, will work with the Rovals, no problem.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I used the DT Swiss 240 xD body with my Rovals. just make sure you order the xD body with the 142 end cap as the endcaps off the regular freehub body does not fit onto the xD body.


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

The XX1 stuff rides really well. It's dead quiet. Almost... too quiet.

But seriously, I cased a double, perfect 50/50, and no noise and the chain didn't drop. I rode downhill all summer so am used to dropping chains. After riding Moab, Park City, Fruita and Grand Junction with no issues, I can happily say that it lives up to the hype. It's amazingly smooth, the gear jumps aren't un-natural and 10-42 is a HUGE range. It's nice to have just one shifter.

And the new XO trails brakes feel really good too... I little more grabby than my regular XO brakes.

mk


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

My buddy who works at a major bike supply company is saying it is now looking like early Dec. That really sucks and almost makes me want to go XO 2x10...almost.


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

QBP is saying Nov 15? If that's true might have mine by the 20th!!!


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

per sram rep at Iceman cometh race gxp will be shipping first than bb30 2 weeks later 

Sj


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

I heard it was the cassettes that were holding things up.


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

Just what componentry do you get for approximately $1,500?

I'm thinking: (?)
1. Rear wheel adaptor (+ you need to have your wheels re-dished $60-$80?)
2. 10-42 rear cassette
3. Crankset
4. RD
5. Chain

Thanks,

Hank


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

DirtyHank said:


> Just what componentry do you get for approximately $1,500?
> 
> I'm thinking: (?)
> 1. Rear wheel adaptor (+ you need to have your wheels re-dished $60-$80?)
> ...


shifter...why do you have to re dish your wheel?


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

I'm not sure as far as re-dishing your wheel goes (I read it below). I apologize in advance if its wrong information. Looks like it's for 11 speed only (I guess). Someone more technical please answer the "What's included" and "Re-dish" questions.










Hank


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## Brandonium (Oct 1, 2012)

So stupid question but.. the grip shift..

You get only one shifter so what do you do about the other handle? I'm guessing you just slap a mismatched handle on the left? :skep:

I'm all about matching parts!


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## DirtyHank (Jul 2, 2012)

Brandonium said:


> So stupid question but.. the grip shift..
> 
> You get only one shifter so what do you do about the other handle? I'm guessing you just slap a mismatched handle on the left? :skep:
> 
> I'm all about matching parts!


Glue Gun ?

Hank


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Get an XX grip shift for the left side and set it up to operate a dropper post!


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

Brandonium said:


> So stupid question but.. the grip shift..
> 
> You get only one shifter so what do you do about the other handle? I'm guessing you just slap a mismatched handle on the left? :skep:
> 
> I'm all about matching parts!


Per SRAM, there will be a matching left grip for Grip Shift users.


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## Brandonium (Oct 1, 2012)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Get an XX grip shift for the left side and set it up to operate a dropper post!


Not afraid you'd drop yourself accidentally? ;-)


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I took out the index on an xx left grip shift, tried it with my command post and it works great 
Sj


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## Brandonium (Oct 1, 2012)

SlowerJoe said:


> I took out the index on an xx left grip shift, tried it with my command post and it works great
> Sj


Great idea. Any pics?


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## Brandonium (Oct 1, 2012)

SlowerJoe said:


> I took out the index on an xx left grip shift, tried it with my command post and it works great
> Sj


Great idea. Any pics?


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Brandonium said:


> Not afraid you'd drop yourself accidentally? ;-)


Im going with trigger shift and plan on modded an xx left shifter to work my dropper post. I too want it to match.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

this is what I took out of the grip shift
it has the ramp that the index spring rides on 
you have to take it completely take it apart to gain access to this
also the big sping inside is kind of a pita 
I did not take pics of the disassembly but can tell you a bamboo squire is perfect to remove the retaining ring that holds everything together 
good luck and dont loose the 120 bb's inside 

Sj


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Yay I will be building my new bike up as XX1 & not having to wait


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

thanks muzzanic now I'm jealous
Enjoy it Sir


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## Ötzi (Sep 20, 2004)

Anyone know if Sun Ringle will support this cassette standard? I would love to get rid of my Paul's chain keeper while adding an extra gear in the back all while keeping my current wheels.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

GrapeNutsRobot said:


> Anyone know if Sun Ringle will support this cassette standard? I would love to get rid of my Paul's chain keeper while adding an extra gear in the back all while keeping my current wheels.


I was told they are going to but they are not there yet.

The free hub for my Reynolds wheel won't be made till Feb so have got a XX1 free hub for my I9's & have a set of New I9 Reynolds coming with XX1 free hub to get me sorted


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

*xddriverbody.com*



GrapeNutsRobot said:


> Anyone know if Sun Ringle will support this cassette standard? I would love to get rid of my Paul's chain keeper while adding an extra gear in the back all while keeping my current wheels.


I don't know how often SRAM updates it, but you can keep track of the companies that have signed on to the XD standard here: SRAM XD Driver Body


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Joshua Pattersnap said:


> I don't know how often SRAM updates it, but you can keep track of the companies that have signed on to the XD standard here: SRAM XD Driver Body


That is a good list but is out of date because Industry Nine are not on it & they are already shipping them out.


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## tahic (Jul 21, 2008)

@Muzzanic

Where are you getting all this i9 and XX1 stuff in New Zealand?


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

tahic said:


> @Muzzanic
> 
> Where are you getting all this i9 and XX1 stuff in New Zealand?


Mine was all part of a new bike package so I couldn't get a secound set at the moment.

However I maybe able to do something at the end of the month if you were after something.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Ready to build this weekend.


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Just got word that QBP has them but it will still be a week or two before they ship.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

muzzanic said:


> Ready to build this weekend.


Ballin'.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

muzzanic said:


> Ready to build this weekend.


Something must be wrong with my eyes as I am seeing double!:eekster:


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## dlennard (Jun 22, 2011)

It must have been a buy one get one free except for the sram stuff.


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## JChasse (Jul 21, 2008)

I was told yesterday that my XX1 pre-ordered stuff should be here late this week or early next week.


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## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

Ace5high said:


> I agree, my biggest turnoff was knowing the price and life expectancy of that XX cassette. Ive run XX 11/36 before and though they are freaking awesome! the almost $400 price tag isn't...
> 
> Not to mention,* is SRAM going to offer a single replacement for the 42 alloy ring? They did for the 36Tooth 10 speed but then DROPPED IT! Im still bitter over that *:madman:
> One of the #1 reasons I don't buy XX cassettes anymore...


Exactly why I wouldn't touch this either. There's no Shimano equivalent to replace it with once the softer 42 wears out prematurely. They porked us once, they ain't gonna do it again.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Project321 also have XX1 support ready to go. Their hub runs i9 internals.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

BacDoc said:


> Something must be wrong with my eyes as I am seeing double!:eekster:


Muzzanic always hooks up his lady with a proper bike
As he should 
There is nothing worse than a guy with a $7000 bike who wonders why his girl doesn't want to ride with him on her $400 hardtail

I am looking forward to getting my XX1 and seeing Muzzanic's build

Sj


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

SlowerJoe said:


> Muzzanic always hooks up his lady with a proper bike
> As he should
> There is nothing worse than a guy with a $7000 bike who wonders why his girl doesn't want to ride with him on her $400 hardtail
> 
> ...


No ..... theres one set of components so obviously theres one frame for riding and one to put on the wall.


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## Ike Turner (Dec 20, 2006)

is there a list of all current compatible rear hubs?


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

SRAM XD Driver Body


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

*Concern over matching left grip shift?*

I'd love to see what Sram includes for the left side grip. Anyone have pic's?
Their dummy grip is way too long so if the left side grip is one piece it will also be way too long.

The dropper actuation isn't a bad idea at all but it's an expensive undertaking to buy the 11 speed right and a 10 speed right as well.

I think there is an opportunity for a grip maker to make something that is a similar diameter the the gripshifter for the left side.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

artnshel said:


> I'd love to see what Sram includes for the left side grip. Anyone have pic's?
> Their dummy grip is way too long so if the left side grip is one piece it will also be way too long.
> 
> The dropper actuation isn't a bad idea at all but it's an expensive undertaking to buy the 11 speed right and a 10 speed right as well.
> ...


you can buy just the left grip shift
once you take out the index it works

Sj


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

SlowerJoe said:


> you can buy just the left grip shift
> once you take out the index it works
> 
> Sj


I like the idea but how much for just the left side? I'm guessing over $100 and its much heavier than a normal dropper remote.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi
I just got back from my 1st long ride on my new Jet9 RDO with XX1

I'm running the std 32 tooth front ring.

I really like it, Having run XX for the last 18 months.

Man is it quiet & smooth, Running down steep stairs that almost made the XX sound like you were shaking coins in a jar you didn't hear any drive train noise.

I brought a 28 & 30 tooth chain ring just so I had them before / if they get hard to get, I'm not sure i will use either but nice to have.

On some of my steepest climbs I was in second gear & was often up in 9th gear & the times I was in 11th I wasn't there long on my ride tonight.

I'm not sure if I will buy the 34 ring for the odd event, we will see as it's to early to tell.

But I could live with the 32 ring for everything i'm riding at the moment.

The shifting is less clunky than the XX , Not as silky as XTR but 2/3 there IMO. Just enough to make it feel nice & solid clicks & not likely to shift by accident like I find can happen with the nice ness of the XTR.

On some trails I can see the the XX1 won't be worth any time over other systems, But I can think of many trails that I do that it will be worth time as I'm less likely to drop gears untill I need to insteed of dropping to the granny ring early so I don't get hung up later.

Yes I know there is the HTFU & you can also set up your gearing to get close to what you need, but man it's nice & easy to tune to where you ride.

Now would I buy it over carbon wheels ??????

Mmmmm that is hard, I really like it & there are some trails that it would be worth more time than carbon wheel ,IMO based on my riding & tracks.

But there would be more trails that the carbon wheels would be worth more speed than XX1, So if you had X0 or greater I would be buying carbon wheels ( that could take XX1 ) before upgrading to XX1.

But if building a new bike I wouldn't even think of going X0 or XX, I would go stright to XX1.

That said I'm sure that when my wife rides my bike in the weekend she will upgrade her X0 for XX1.

Note she hates front shifting ( more of a rider thing than a changing problem )

I hope this helps.


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## aBrownCow (Jun 18, 2006)

Thanks muzzanic, 

It seems your experiences jive with the other reviews I have said. That is, the drivetrain really delivers on the promise of silence and simplicity. 

Just curious what q-factor are you running on the Niners? I'm on the list for the RIP 9 RDO in the springtime and I'm not sure if I should run the narrow or wide q-factor.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Awesome. Thanks for the review muz. Let us know how long the chain lasts and if shifting suffers over time.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

random newbie thought. openly admit I haven't read all 10 pages of the thread. Avid road cyclist, just now looking to get into mtb. general bike enthusiast. In my opinion, a lot of this stuff is about trickling down and there is a limited market for high end bikes but they sell a whole lot of parts to go on lower end bikes. a system like this 1x11 could really translate well into the lower end bike market. I'm in the fitness business and I"ve gotten a few of my clients into road cycling and I can't even begin to tell you how many middle aged women enjoy cycling but just dont seem to understand shifting!!!!!! I'll take them out on a ride and I'm getting way ahead of them and it's not because they are out of shape, it's because they just don't use the goddamn front shifter!!!!! Trickle this 1x11 technology down and you can EASILY sell the ease of shifting benefits to your average cyclist.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi
I have been using 156Q on both my Jet9 RDO & I had 156Q on my Rip9 as well.

Looking forward to getting my Rip9 RDO as well.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

cpfitness said:


> random newbie thought. openly admit I haven't read all 10 pages of the thread. Avid road cyclist, just now looking to get into mtb. general bike enthusiast. In my opinion, a lot of this stuff is about trickling down and there is a limited market for high end bikes but they sell a whole lot of parts to go on lower end bikes. a system like this 1x11 could really translate well into the lower end bike market. I'm in the fitness business and I"ve gotten a few of my clients into road cycling and I can't even begin to tell you how many middle aged women enjoy cycling but just dont seem to understand shifting!!!!!! I'll take them out on a ride and I'm getting way ahead of them and it's not because they are out of shape, it's because they just don't use the goddamn front shifter!!!!! Trickle this 1x11 technology down and you can EASILY sell the ease of shifting benefits to your average cyclist.


Yes I have seen this heaps & with my wife also.

MTBing became so much better when I took off the triple front rings & went double.

I even fitted double tap leavers that had gear indicaters & only 1 lever & that helped alot to.

But the single ring where you are just going up or down will be great for her to.

It will trickel down because it's to good not to & the brain work has allready been done.


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## Jeff in Bend (Jun 5, 2010)

I was on the phone with Hadley about an issue, I asked if they were going to make a conversion for the XD system and they said it would be out after the first of the year.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

spammer reported.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Thought you got some XX1 AZ
Nothing to see here
Oh well

Sj


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

aBrownCow said:


> Thanks muzzanic,
> 
> It seems your experiences jive with the other reviews I have said. That is, the drivetrain really delivers on the promise of silence and simplicity.


The silence comes from the Type 2 design. My 10 speed type 2 X9 is singlespeed silent as well.

I like the idea, but plenty happy with my 1x10 setup.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

During the summer we do a lot of Epic rides where you are climbing for 3-4 hours and gaining 5-6k in elevation. Even the steepest sections are doable in in a higher gear, but having a lower gear to spin in allows you to keep going at a steady pace much easier than try to power up everything. I dont think I will be using the 42t much, but I will be happy knowing I have it to fall back on if needed. 

I dont see why people come here to bash xx1. They aren't eliminating everything else, just giving a new option that might appeal to some people. If you dont want a 42T in the back, then stick with XX or XO or whatever you like and the 36t in the back. 

I have a buddy that lives in Indiana, and anything other than a single speed 29er HT seems like a waste to him..


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

GreenLightGo said:


> The silence comes from the Type 2 design. My 10 speed type 2 X9 is singlespeed silent as well.
> 
> I like the idea, but plenty happy with my 1x10 setup.


What is "Type 2"? I have yet to experience a quite drive train that involves pulleys or chain guides.

Not "too noisy" is about the best I have seen.

Shadow technology has greatly reduced the need for guides but my XTR Shadow derailleur itself it the noisiest derailleur I have ever ridden with. I deal with it, but it sure isn't silent.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

modifier said:


> What is "Type 2"? I have yet to experience a quite drive train that involves pulleys or chain guides.
> 
> Not "too noisy" is about the best I have seen.
> 
> Shadow technology has greatly reduced the need for guides but my XTR Shadow derailleur itself it the noisiest derailleur I have ever ridden with. I deal with it, but it sure isn't silent.


Introducing the SRAM TYPE 2


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

type 2 has a one way clutch that helps preventing the chain from slapping 
it is hard to pull the cage forward but it will pull itself back up with no added resistance 


Sj


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

So it's Sram's answer to Shadow. I'm not sure why Shadow makes a der so much more noisy. Perhaps the lack of suspension allowing vibration to transfer to the frame. Is Type 2 better?

I've only used 1 Shadow XTR and no Type 2.

Shadow was actually the reason I bought a Shimano der for the first time in at least 10 years.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

its very close to the shadow +


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

modifier said:


> What is "Type 2"? I have yet to experience a quite drive train that involves pulleys or chain guides.
> 
> Not "too noisy" is about the best I have seen.
> 
> Shadow technology has greatly reduced the need for guides but my XTR Shadow derailleur itself it the noisiest derailleur I have ever ridden with. I deal with it, but it sure isn't silent.


I built up a Jet9 RDO with XX1 & 1 with the Type 2 rear derailieur & the XX1 bike is quieter.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

modifier said:


> So it's Sram's answer to Shadow. I'm not sure why Shadow makes a der so much more noisy. Perhaps the lack of suspension allowing vibration to transfer to the frame. Is Type 2 better?
> 
> I've only used 1 Shadow XTR and no Type 2.
> 
> Shadow was actually the reason I bought a Shimano der for the first time in at least 10 years.


Shadow was Shimano's answer to Sram's low profile dr. Then Type2 was SRAM's answer to Shimano's Shadow+.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

XX1 is going well on my new bike.


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Has anyone got there pre-ordered XX1 yet? I really thought mine would be here today but no luck?! I'm dying to ride my MTB!!!


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Ok never mind just got the email that it will ship on Monday!!!


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Mine ships Monday too. ive had a bike fully built for 2 months just waiting for a drivetrain!


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## textbookonewk (Apr 17, 2009)

Still waiting on my preorder, and I haven't got the email that it is shipping yet


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## JChasse (Jul 21, 2008)

jdubb12 said:


> Has anyone got there pre-ordered XX1 yet? I really thought mine would be here today but no luck?! I'm dying to ride my MTB!!!


We got tracking info that mine shipped last Tues or Weds. Looks like it'll get here before my frame, since a batch of Chrome Black Tracer 275s had to get stripped and re-finished.


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## KonCorp (Nov 11, 2012)

rockcrusher said:


> I have to say the 42T rear is ridiculous. If you can't make it up the climb with a 32x36t (the current standard) the you can probably walk it just as fast as running a 33x42t.
> 
> It seems like a cog that could deliver a serious amount of torque to a free hub (probably the reason it requires a special hub, so that you can't just slip it on any old hub and destroy it on the first climb), and it makes me think that a dirty drive train would just contribute to a lot of broken chains, bend 42t cogs etc.
> 
> All too often bike component makers spend too much time making bike riding easier to compensate for the fact that bikes riding has been made easier. Modifying the SS riders creed, you have 9 or 10 or 11 speeds, all your gears and walking and if the hill is too hard to climb ride more, don't make it easier to climb. That is the same as removing rocks in the trail because you can't clean them. Learn to ride your bike, first. Then buy stuff.


:thumbsup: Rep for that.


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## Montiemilner (Mar 21, 2009)

Hope just delivered their new driver for XX1 to me, very cool.



pulser said:


> I think you might be missing the point. From what I understand about the group Sram wants it to be used for every thing from down hill to world cup XC racers to every day riders. XC racers will want the 10 and as well as the 42.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Montiemilner said:


> Hope just delivered their new driver for XX1 to me, very cool.


Very good, I'm loving my XX1 on my new bike.

There is still so many people that don't under stand the XX1 & how tuneable it is buy just chaging front rings


----------



## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Mine ships Monday too. ive had a bike fully built for 2 months just waiting for a drivetrain!


HAHA! Me to, I'm sick of road riding!!!


----------



## Tim Mailloux (Jun 18, 2007)

Will a XX1 crankset and chainring work with a 1x9 setup?

The literature says it will work with 1x10 but says nothing about 1x9.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Tim Mailloux said:


> Will a XX1 crankset and chainring work with a 1x9 setup?
> 
> The literature says it will work with 1x10 but says nothing about 1x9.


Hi yes it will


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## Tim Mailloux (Jun 18, 2007)

muzzanic said:


> Hi yes it will


Thanks!

One more question, does anyone know of any plans to make direct mount bash guards. Lone thing that has kept me going to spiderless crank / BlingRing route is that I don't have ICSG tabs on my frame and no ability to run any sort of trouble free bash guard with that setup


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi
Well I went & rode some trails last night that would be the steepest up & steepest down that I can find in my area & man the XX1 works well, It is going to be fine for me & where I ride.

There was lots of ruff with the bike bouncing around & chain didn't even come close to looking like it was going.


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## JonGon (Nov 9, 2012)

Anyone using xx1 crankset for SS? And if so, how bout the xx1 chain?


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Stopped by the LBS today
they didn't get an email saying mine will ship yet 
Oh well 

Sj


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## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

muzzanic said:


> Hi yes it will


Hey Muzzanic, when you say it will work with 1x9, do you mean you still don't need a chain guard / it won't drop the chain on a 9-speed RD even though it's not Type 2?

I thought it was the combination of the chain-ring teeth and the Type 2 that kept the chain in place with no chain guard. I was thinking about getting the XX1 crankset for my 1x9, but it's a waste of money if I still need a chain guard.

Thanks


----------



## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

mbco1975 said:


> Hey Muzzanic, when you say it will work with 1x9, do you mean you still don't need a chain guard / it won't drop the chain on a 9-speed RD even though it's not Type 2?
> 
> I thought it was the combination of the chain-ring teeth and the Type 2 that kept the chain in place with no chain guard. I was thinking about getting the XX1 crankset for my 1x9, but it's a waste of money if I still need a chain guard.
> 
> Thanks


Hi sorry I thought you wanted the crank for the chain rings that you could get.

You would need a Type 2 rear derailieur, that you can not get in 9 speed .

You would still want a chain guide IMO.
.


----------



## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

Anyone fitted a gxp to a Santa cruz yet?

Specifically a tallboy c - cannot get rid of the play in the the crank

All instructions say I don't need any spacers but it's not having it


----------



## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

danridesbikes said:


> Anyone fitted a gxp to a Santa cruz yet?
> 
> Specifically a tallboy c - cannot get rid of the play in the the crank
> 
> All instructions say I don't need any spacers but it's not having it


Can't see why TB would be any different, I take it you have the proper GXP Bottom bracket & you have the splined seal washer on the LH side ?


----------



## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

Yup ceramic SRAM bb - yup spacer is installed 

Will try with 1x spacer on the drive side


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

danridesbikes said:


> Yup ceramic SRAM bb - yup spacer is installed
> 
> Will try with 1x spacer on the drive side


Un like all the none sram cranks, The RH side has nothing to do with it.

The crank is held in place by the LH bearing that is wider than all the other none GXP bottom brackets, so you problen is on the LH side.


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## FrY10cK (Oct 14, 2011)

Montiemilner said:


> Hope just delivered their new driver for XX1 to me, very cool.


I just ordered a Beargrease frame set but have yet to find an online source for the Hope XD driver. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

Just got my XX1 today it is super smooth not a single chain slap or drop! Love it!!!


----------



## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

jdubb12 said:


> Just got my XX1 today it is super smooth not a single chain slap or drop! Love it!!!


Yes I have got a few rides in on mine now & have been hitting the trails that would give it the most problem & it has been faultless.


----------



## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Got to handle XX1 in person tonight at the JensonUSA tech demo. I figured I'd share what I learned, from sort of a neutral stand point, treating all hype with a healthy amount of speculation.

The Type 2's cage "tension" just feels crazy high. I was thinking it was "locked" (I never handled it before, even a XO or X9 version), until I gave it much much more force to open it up. The cage lock button is a very cool idea. You use it when you want to install/remove your wheel, by pushing the cage forward and you press the Lock button, which is actually a pin, which goes into a cut-out in the cage, and holds it forward. The 12T jockey wheels kind of stand out. They aren't made of the slick Delrin material I'm used to seeing, but instead a hard plasticy composite material, with the "X-Sync" tooth shaping like found on the chainring. Also only the outboard half of the cage is carbon it seems, with the inner half metal.

The cassette feels so light for how massive it is. I've used an XX cassette before and this didn't fail to impress me yet again, with how artfully crafted it is. The difference here is how it locks onto the hub's cassette body. It presses up against it, yet not flush like a normal cassette. Instead, you use a lockring tool to screw it on, and it pulls itself into the grooves. Super simple.

SRAM rep gave me some numbers and the prices seemed higher than what I've been paying for XX (I tend to bargain hunt). How cheap they said the XX1 chain's MSRP is, was kind of shock, with how low it was, especially after how they claimed it lasted 4x longer than their previous chains ($59). They say it lasts 4x longer due to some "hard chrome" coating they put in the inner bits. It looked pretty narrow. That's one thing I'm looking forward to on trickle down. The chainrings were kind of expensive, $90-125 or so, depending on how many teeth it comes in. They say they're CNC'd 7000 series alu, with a special hard wearing coating.

Not sure if I'd pair it with triggers, personally. I tried riding pseudo 1x, by simply keeping it in the middle ring, and found myself dumping massive number of gears unnaturally. That made me look forward to checking out the twist action of the GripShift, and how it feels jumping through multiple gears. Thought that it felt really light and smooth at pulling cable, with distinct clicks between gears, but felt like the clicks were more like big speed bumps when releasing cable. 

I was shown what looked to be a XD Driver body made for a SRAM hub, with its pawls missing. It had a sealed bearing hanging out on 1 side and a built in rubber flap where it meets the hub shell. Looks like the end cap doesn't press fit on, but is loose and is held by the thru axle. Can't really judge other brand's version on the one I saw, but they claim that a lot of brands have signed on to create their own hub bodies that are compatible with the XX1 cassette.

One of the Jenson guys added in an anecdotal story about SRAM carbon crankarms (XO, in this story), saying that they felt stiffer than XTR crankarms, which successfully converted a heavy hard-riding Shimano die hard. They say it comes in 168? and 154? Q-factors and I think it comes with heel rub tape pre-installed.

The rep claimed SRAM to have shipped out only 1000 groupsets globally for their November shipment (~400 to the US), and plan on ramping up production to double that figure each month.

Looks like you're gonna have to basically buy an entire gruppo, as they're all designed to work together. $1450 MSRP. While they might have said that to get the finest experience, you must run things together with their older gruppos, they really emphasize it for this one. Someone asked the rep if you can put the XX1 chainrings on a non-XX1 crankset and she said no, and then corrected herself saying that not compatible at this time.

Looking forward to seeing this on complete bikes, particularly ones that are designed specifically for it, no FD and no compromises for fitting triple crankarms and also allowing tire clearance. Maybe we can see some lighter 29ers that feature tighter rear ends. A lot of naysayers might just be sold on it come 2014, when this actually gets out under more riders and the word spreads. It has quite a bit of promise and, from what I can tell, it looks like it can deliver. If a 1x system was a maybe, for your bike, fitness, and trails, XX1 might make that "maybe", if the hype can be believed, into a "why did I wait so long to go for a proper quality 1x setup?" There are those that feel like there's no chance that 1x would work for them, and I don't think XX1 will work well for them. It seems to target a limited number of riders, particularly those who "trail ride", rather than ride up and down mountains.

I didn't get to see it installed on a bike, so I'm not sold on it yet (I'd like to ride on it first), but the SRAM rep said that there might be a surprise at a future tech demo when she gets a truck and heads down to San Diego. Would've at least liked to feel the chain tension. Already seen it in action in the vids and can't really judge shifting action in a bike stand.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

It rides very nice.

When I 1st felt the tension of the derailieur I thought wow that is a bit tight, But on the bike it feels fine.

The system is quiet running & i'm not just talking about lack of chain slap, The shifts are very chrisp & with the triggers I often choose to drop 2 gears at a time with no problems & don't feel the need to drop more at a time.

With the std 32 front ring & 42 on the rear it is much the same as the 26/36 I ran on my XX group & on most my trails didn't run out of gears.

I ordered a 28 & 30 tooth front ring before I rode the bike & don't really feel the need to run them, But will fit one or other on the large climb days just because I can.

I have been only doing trails that i would think would be the hardest for the chain to stay on with no chain guide to see if I need to order 1 befor christmas but it has been rock solid.

I will be selling all my 2x10 drive train bit of which I have many & staying with XX1 now that I have ridden it & am very happy with it.



Varaxis said:


> Got to handle XX1 in person tonight at the JensonUSA tech demo. I figured I'd share what I learned, from sort of a neutral stand point, treating all hype with a healthy amount of speculation.
> 
> The Type 2's cage "tension" just feels crazy high. I was thinking it was "locked" (I never handled it before, even a XO or X9 version), until I gave it much much more force to open it up. The cage lock button is a very cool idea. You use it when you want to install/remove your wheel, by pushing the cage forward and you press the Lock button, which is actually a pin, which goes into a cut-out in the cage, and holds it forward. The 12T jockey wheels kind of stand out. They aren't made of the slick Delrin material I'm used to seeing, but instead a hard plasticy composite material, with the "X-Sync" tooth shaping like found on the chainring. Also only the outboard half of the cage is carbon it seems, with the inner half metal.
> 
> ...


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## Xtyling (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm guessing the tension of the rear derailuer is from a very stiff spring tension.. I wonder how long will the spring tension will be able to last.. Most springs eventually give out.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Xtyling said:


> I'm guessing the tension of the rear derailuer is from a very stiff spring tension.. I wonder how long will the spring tension will be able to last.. Most springs eventually give out.


If it's Ti it should be fine.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Varaxis said:


> Looking forward to seeing this on complete bikes, particularly ones that are designed specifically for it, no FD and no compromises for fitting triple crankarms and also allowing tire clearance. Maybe we can see some lighter 29ers that feature tighter rear ends. A lot of naysayers might just be sold on it come 2014, when this actually gets out under more riders and the word spreads. It has quite a bit of promise and, from what I can tell, it looks like it can deliver. If a 1x system was a maybe, for your bike, fitness, and trails, XX1 might make that "maybe", if the hype can be believed, into a "why did I wait so long to go for a proper quality 1x setup?" There are those that feel like there's no chance that 1x would work for them, and I don't think XX1 will work well for them. It seems to target a limited number of riders, particularly those who "trail ride", rather than ride up and down mountains.


You can put me in this camp. I currently have 2x9 with a 32/22 x 34/11. I would love to go 1x, but there are some trails with looong washed out climbs that I barely make in 22x34. The XX1 with a 28 ring would give me everything I have now except for 32x11. With a 29er on 2.4's, the only time I spin out is downhill on the road.

Of course, I'm not paying XX1 prices. If this comes out in X7/X9 form, I'm all over it though.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

American Classic have put pictures on their Facebook page rear hub in a bag ......wait for it....marked as shimano 11 speed assume this is a printing mistake


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

Andrewfuzzy said:


> American Classic have put pictures on their Facebook page rear hub in a bag ......wait for it....marked as shimano 11 speed assume this is a printing mistake


I'm guessing this is the new Shimano 11-spd road hub.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

car_nut said:


> I'm guessing this is the new Shimano 11-spd road hub.


Probably, new duraace 9000 is mechanical 11spd

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

Yep it has the title "Shimano 11 speed road cassette bodies are here!"


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## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

@Varaxis

Nice review, thanks for posting. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get XX1 early next year. Currently running 1x9 due to a broken front shifter. I can get up pretty much any climb, but I'm planning on doing longer races in 2013 and I feel I could use a bail out gear if my legs start to crash during a race. Also could do with a high gear for some long downhills on fire roads, so a smaller front chanring won't help.

I'm 50/50 on the shifter vs the twist. I like the idea of the twist, but I use my middle finger for braking. My LBS currently has the Specialized epic XX1 and I noticed that the twist shifter pushes the brake pretty far along the bar and is more suited to index finger braking. Need to test ride it to see though.

As for the XX1 chainrings on non-XX1 crankset, the S-works epic and stumpy HT have XX1 chainrings on the Specialized cranks.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Yes, I remember Bikerumour or Radar saying something about the twist shifter being in the "wrong" spot. When you put your hands in the normal riding position you have to reach to twist the shifter. Every rider is different so you should check it out before buying.


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

I think it's probably worth buying a slightly longer bar to allow for the length of the shifters, I'd love to (literally) get my hands on one to see, apparently the braking is meant to be single finger....and I assume it's dependant on your hands size...I know I sometimes release my grip to press my SRAM shifters so maybe the twist is a little like that ? And my hands are quite large


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## kgm (Feb 13, 2011)

Xtyling said:


> I'm guessing the tension of the rear derailuer is from a very stiff spring tension.. I wonder how long will the spring tension will be able to last.. Most springs eventually give out.


The cage is normally sprung, but it has a roller bearing to control the cage movement. They said it should last approximately 5 years then probably go back to a normal sprung cage.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Take what I said as an first impression. 

Some of the feeling in the crazy high tension is due to the Type 2 clutch sort of holding the cage, probably. Just played with an XX RD I had laying around and tried comparing the "pinching pressure" (pinching something between the parallelogram and cage) and it's not like it would put nice deep marks into your finger if you stuck it in there. While the XX is pretty comfortable clamped onto my finger, the XX1 felt like that'd be a bad idea to even try. Not the greatest test for cage tension, but who knows if all the downsides of excessive chain tension really results in bad traits with the XX1 chain (with 4x claimed lifetime) and this XX1 drivetrain. Sounds like the crisp snappy shifting is a positive thing, according to some ride reports.

The GripShift release feels like a big speed bump, off the bike. You can probably imagine that a RD's spring tension pulling on it would ease it up some, but it would also put some resistance on cable pull.

Not sure why the chainrings cost so much. If they put a DLC finish on it, I'm sure they'd advertise it, as that's a very expensive finish. I think they are probably just charging that much since they're using a blank as thick as the widest tooth in the X-Sync tooth profile, and CNC'ing it all. Compare to Shimano XTR (or DuraAce) geared rings, Rotor Q-Rings, Praxis specially forged and CNC'd rings, and Renthal 1x rings...

I splurged over the summer on MTB stuff, so I'm in no rush to buy stuff. Trying stuff, on the other hand, is always fun, though that comes with the risk of wanting to try it again (and again). No harm in holding off, but like muzzanic said, if you're buying a new drivetrain anyways, XX1 is one to seriously take a look at. Probably not worth upgrading an existing one unless you absolutely must have the latest and greatest. He also said he's been fine with the stock 32T ring, so no need to pay for the expensive chainrings. You'd prob shed a tear when it comes time to replace the cassette though, unless they create a cheaper pinned cassette with that lockring sleeve thingee.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

mine ships tomorrow 
its snow bike season so I will not try it out till March,ish
just letting you know they are shipping the bb30 stuff 

Sj


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## ktm520 (Apr 21, 2004)

mbco1975 said:


> I'm 50/50 on the shifter vs the twist. I like the idea of the twist, but I use my middle finger for braking. My LBS currently has the Specialized epic XX1 and I noticed that the twist shifter pushes the brake pretty far along the bar and is more suited to index finger braking. Need to test ride it to see though.


This is easily resolved with a shorter grip. The stock gripshift grips are like 120mm long (way too long imo). I cut down a set of ergons to 85mm and that has been the sweet spot for my hands. You would be able to middle finger brake with shorter grips.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

who gave me the rep 
you didn't sign it and I would like to give some back
don't make me rep everyone in here 
I will find you LOL 

Sj


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

SlowerJoe said:


> who gave me the rep
> you didn't sign it and I would like to give some back
> don't make me rep everyone in here
> I will find you LOL
> ...


MARS
eeyolpmE

JKing!


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

SlowerJoe said:


> who gave me the rep
> you didn't sign it and I would like to give some back
> don't make me rep everyone in here
> I will find you LOL
> ...


I didn't but I guess you gave all of us rep so I'll sent it back. Don't rep me again!


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## Andrewfuzzy (Jan 25, 2012)

toons101 said:


> Yep it has the title "Shimano 11 speed road cassette bodies are here!"


Yes sorry guys maybe it was just excitement should have read the post properly


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## Kanik (Sep 28, 2011)

danridesbikes said:


> Yup ceramic SRAM bb - yup spacer is installed
> 
> Will try with 1x spacer on the drive side


The important thing to remember is that with GXP, tightening the bolt on the left crank arm squeezes the inner race of the left bearing between the crank spindle and the left crank arm. The right bearing floats axially on the spindle.

It can take more torque than you are probably applying to get it to clamp well enough and take out the play. In my experience the ceramic BBs are troublesome with this. Not sure why you'd spend the (way) extra for the ceramic anyway, especially as there's no way to preload the bearings with GXP. Being able to preload bearings can significantly extend their life.

54Nm is the max spec, and that's 25% more than a cassette locking. Keep in mind that you usually have 30-35cm of chain whip and wheel to use as a lever with the lockring, but only about 17-18cm of leverage with your cranks and 10mm hex wrench. So, it takes a lot more effort to install a GXP crank than a cassette lockring.

As for XX1, I would consider using the crank for other 1x setups, like a Shimano/SRAM 1x10 (or even the SRAmano 1x9 Shadow+).

You can't use the chainrings on other cranks because the bolt holes don't actually all lie on one circle. They're asymmetric.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Almost a week later than I was originally told, but my xx1 build kit is finally on the way. I had my new bike fully built up at the end up September, so it will be nice to finally ride it! 

Is anyone using any kind of guide or bash with their xx1? I preordered the MRP AMG, and was told that should ship around the 8th.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Almost a week later than I was originally told, but my xx1 build kit is finally on the way. I had my new bike fully built up at the end up September, so it will be nice to finally ride it!
> 
> Is anyone using any kind of guide or bash with their xx1? I preordered the MRP AMG, and was told that should ship around the 8th.


I have seen no need with mine.


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## jdubb12 (Jul 29, 2008)

I haven't needed one either.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Any thoughts....

Drive trains have gone to utilizing larger cogs out back, whether is was with a 2x10 with 36t cog out back, and now the 1x11 with a 42t out back. This is putting relative more weight farther away from the BB area. Compare the weight of a 10 speed 36t to a 9 speed 32t, then throw that weight way out back, at the end of a long chainstay.

Maybe this is insignificant, but seems to me a fair amount of bike weight is being pushed far out back. For riders on 29ers, with longer stays, that might add up to where it could conceivably affect the feel of the ride.

Any thoughts?


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Miker J said:


> Any thoughts....
> 
> Drive trains have gone to utilizing larger cogs out back, whether is was with a 2x10 with 36t cog out back, and now the 1x11 with a 42t out back. This is putting relative more weight farther away from the BB area. Compare the weight of a 10 speed 36t to a 9 speed 32t, then throw that weight way out back, at the end of a long chainstay.
> 
> ...


Horseshit. Have you seen the weight spec on this cassette? Its ridiculously light weight 260 grams. Tire changes have more impact

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Ok...*



cpfitness said:


> Horseshit. Have you seen the weight spec on this cassette? Its ridiculously light weight 260 grams. Tire changes have more impact
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


 Ok, im all wet.

Wow, I didn't see the feather-like weight on that cassette. No wonder it cost a fortune.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Miker J said:


> Ok, im all wet.
> 
> Wow, I didn't see the feather-like weight on that cassette. No wonder it cost a fortune.


Yes a few of my car race friends looked at my cassette & said thats not a bike part, That is Art.


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

Muzzanic,

Have you had a chance to go up any really steep stuff on your new XX1? 
I saw that you were coming from a 36/26 and seem to not be able to tell much different at all. Can you expand no that at all, i.e. you give up a little on the climbs or you lose some top end speed? 

Any thing else that would be helpful when considering making this move?

I am currently on XX with a 39/26 up front and 36 out back and will be riding a lot around Montana, Idaho, and some in Tahoe area. I havent really ever had to get off and walk up anything steep unless it was so washed out it was just easier to run up it.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

simpy16 said:


> Muzzanic,
> 
> Have you had a chance to go up any really steep stuff on your new XX1?
> I saw that you were coming from a 36/26 and seem to not be able to tell much different at all. Can you expand no that at all, i.e. you give up a little on the climbs or you lose some top end speed?
> ...


If you run a 42 back with a 30 tooth front it is almost the same ratio as 36 back with a 26 front for the low
If you run a 32 tooth front ring it is like running a 34 tooth rear with a 26 tooth front for the low
you really do not give up allot with this system
I can't wait to run mine next spring

Sj


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

Slower joe. Thanks for the number crunching.

2 thing. 

1. How much weight savings did you see if you came from a XX group?
2. How would I know what Q factor I would need for my crankset?

I think I may run a 31 if they make it and put me right in the middle and then I will just man up for the rest.

Oops! Nevermind there is only 30 or 32. Might just have to buy both trade out when I feel like I might need more for climbing.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Hi

I have been riding only the most gut busting trails around here since I built up this bike to get a real idea what this group gives up to the XX 26/39 with 36-11 cassette on my other Jet9 RDO.

On the climbs with the 32 front ring I not finding it to be any harder than with the XX.

I put the 30 tooth front ring on for last night to see how it went on the same trials, & to be honest what it really did was make me climb the real steep stuff in second gear were as with the 32 f ring I was in 1st.

As for the top end yes there is a loss of top gear but it does high light how seldom you are in your highest gear.

Is it faster ??

Yes, On the trails I have been riding on the downs there is some real sharp switch backs & you need to scrub off alot of speed ( almost stopped ) & then power out the other side, With the XX1 you are right on the right gearing & get out of the gear real fast.

Were as with the XX you are in the big ring & you are about to have to change up a heap of gears so there is no way you would drop to the small ring because you would have to change up again in 20 feet so the XX is quite a bit slower out of the corner than the XX1.

Ok so alot of people already run a 32 front ring on a none XX1 setup so whats the difference, Well on the climbs or rolling steep you once again are in the right gear all the time with the XX1 were as with the XX you can often just hold a lower gear because within 20 to 40 feet you need to be back in the small ring again.

So big :thumbsup::thumbsup: form me.

Note I managed to run the same chain length with 30 or 32 front ring.



simpy16 said:


> Muzzanic,
> 
> Have you had a chance to go up any really steep stuff on your new XX1?
> I saw that you were coming from a 36/26 and seem to not be able to tell much different at all. Can you expand no that at all, i.e. you give up a little on the climbs or you lose some top end speed?
> ...


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

simpy16 said:


> Slower joe. Thanks for the number crunching.
> 
> 2 thing.
> 
> ...


Yes all the chainrings are even numbers because the chain rings have a wide tooth evey second tooth to fit into the wide link in the chain, Same as with the derailieur pullys.


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

I will save about 400grams changing from X0/X9 2x10 gruppo to XX1. Weight on scale can be seen here:

Betzel - Benutzerprofil - Gewicht von Teilen auf der Waage - MTB-News.de

Weigth crank is including BB while BB is not shown in the pic. GXP BB = 111gr. The pics are on a German site. If you have a question just ask. I can translate the text i have written there.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

If anyone is still confused on what gears they need use this. You can figure out your current high and low gear and then choose the XX1 chainring you'll need to match or at least be close to it.

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator


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## Art.C (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for sharing that link. I've used it over the last few weeks contemplating what I should upgrade/downgrade to next.

I'm always surprised how close the xx1 32t gets to a 26/39 11-36!

This is probably the best article out there explaining it all: SRAM XX1 Drivetrain - First Look - Pinkbike

I'll be sticking to my 2x10, but the future is looking good.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Most the summer i did big climbs in 24/32, which closely simulates 32/42 of the xx1. I had zero issues on even the biggest climbs and in fact use 24/28 most the time. The 32/36 on xx1 will be plenty for most climbs but it will be nice to have that 42 to fall back on just incase.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

the-one1 said:


> Shadow was Shimano's answer to Sram's low profile dr. Then Type2 was SRAM's answer to Shimano's Shadow+.


Good to know. I meant Shadow plus.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I'm going to start out with the 28 tooth front
I like to play in big rocks an sometimes on a steep climb I pedal strike and come to a stop
A supper low gear can be nice to get moving up hill and than drop down a couple of gears quickly to get the required momentum to make it through the chop
Yes I could run up the hill faster sometimes but.....
WTF kind of sport is bike running anyway
Take more pride in what I can get through on a bike over hiking
I'm stoked to try out my XX1 as long as they get me my cassette body ARG


Sj


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Cassette body came in, can't wait to build it up on Christmas 

Sj


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

SlowerJoe said:


> Cassette body came in, can't wait to build it up on Christmas
> 
> Sj


Good news:thumbsup:


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

SlowerJoe said:


> I'm going to start out with the 28 tooth front
> I like to play in big rocks an sometimes on a steep climb I pedal strike and come to a stop
> A supper low gear can be nice to get moving up hill and than drop down a couple of gears quickly to get the required momentum to make it through the chop
> Yes I could run up the hill faster sometimes but.....
> ...


28 should be fine unless you live in a mountainous region. Especially with the 10 tooth. I only have a 24 tooth front on one bike and never spin out in 24/11 here in the Midwest. We don't have long steep downhills. Plus the 24/34 gives me enough to climb up anything I can keep from spinning out on. You'll have higher and lower.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

modifier said:


> 28 should be fine unless you live in a mountainous region. Especially with the 10 tooth. I only have a 24 tooth front on one bike and never spin out in 24/11 here in the Midwest. We don't have long steep downhills. Plus the 24/34 gives me enough to climb up anything I can keep from spinning out on. You'll have higher and lower.


I am in the Midwest 
Allot of the trails I run are rocky steep and rolling
I rarely use my lowest gear but it sure is nice knowing its there
My XX 39 tooth is missing 5 teeth and I'm going to be happy to put an end to that
I plan to get an ICSG mount bash for my stumpy 
can't wait to toss a leg over it

Sj


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## das recht (Apr 22, 2008)

Miker J said:


> Show me picks of worn out 11t cogs to support how much they are needed and used.
> 
> On a single , or double, with a 32t max front ring, which is quite common, worn 11t cogs are rarely seen. Most certainly not enough to warrant a 10t that would require an expensive hub overhaul.
> 
> Of course this is all my opinion, but wait until Shimano comes out with a similar design with a 11t max that requires no hub overhaul. I bet they'll walk away with this market and prove the theory.


I run a 1x10 and while I don't wear out my 11T cog, I do run out of higher gears when riding aggressively downhill. Yes, you can run a 1x10 but you need to make a not insubstantial compromise climbing or descending. I, at least, hope that Shimano will follow suit with a 1x11 drivetrain.


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

The body for my Hope hub came in yesterday. And tomorrow my wheels will be build. And after that I guess it will takes ages for the weekend to come


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Nice 
what ya putting that on betzel?



Sj


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Hmm. From the looks of it the hub body is the same with a different free hub and splines.

I wonder if you can simply switch out the free hubs?

I was thinking about this last night riding a 29er with i9 wheels and hoping I can do this with that rear.

I don't want to build new wheels I just want the gears.


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## simpy16 (Apr 18, 2012)

modifier said:


> Hmm. From the looks of it the hub body is the same with a different free hub and splines.
> 
> I wonder if you can simply switch out the free hubs?
> 
> ...


I know for sure that the Sram and DT swiss hubs have free hubs that just change out on existing hubs.

I am going to buy one for my DT240 so i can run this as well.

I cant speak for Hope or i9 but depending on how they are built i believe they are all coming out with just an replacement free hub that will go on the hub you already have.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Here are some real weights if anyone is interested.

SRAM XX1 Component Group - Actual Weights - Bike Rumor


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## das recht (Apr 22, 2008)

simpy16 said:


> I know for sure that the Sram and DT swiss hubs have free hubs that just change out on existing hubs.
> 
> I am going to buy one for my DT240 so i can run this as well.
> 
> I cant speak for Hope or i9 but depending on how they are built i believe they are all coming out with just an replacement free hub that will go on the hub you already have.


Same is possible for Hopes.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

modifier said:


> Hmm. From the looks of it the hub body is the same with a different free hub and splines.
> 
> I wonder if you can simply switch out the free hubs?
> 
> ...


Yes I only changed the freehub body on My I9 wheels for xx1, It takes less than 30 seconds.


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## chrisgardner73 (Oct 12, 2008)

Crap! The shop I'm going to be racing with next year just got some XX1 kits in...and I'm afraid I'm gonna come home with one after our team meeting on Saturday! #nowillpower :madman:


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## NevB (Nov 11, 2012)

Is it possible to get the XX1 cluster only?

I'm thinking of running two wheelsets - one for AM, the other with slicks for commuting, so I'd only need a XX1 cluster on the second set.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

chrisgardner73 said:


> Crap! The shop I'm going to be racing with next year just got some XX1 kits in...and I'm afraid I'm gonna come home with one after our team meeting on Saturday! #nowillpower :madman:


willpower is overated
For the same money you could come home with something stupid like a TV 
do the right thing
Use all your expendable income and than some on your bikes
Learn from me
Its worth it

Sj


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

NevB said:


> Is it possible to get the XX1 cluster only?
> 
> I'm thinking of running two wheelsets - one for AM, the other with slicks for commuting, so I'd only need a XX1 cluster on the second set.


Yes you can buy a second XX1 cassette on it's own.


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

It is the same Hope hubshell. You just need to change the freewheel. 5 minutes work! I'm putting on a bike that wouldn't fit in this part of the forum  It's a 2011 Marin Mount Vision XM9 so a 26" bike. I will upload some pics in the Marin forum when my bike is ready (tonight or tomorrow).


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

Can't wait to get my XX1 groupset over here in Nepal. I got the delivery confirmation that it already got to my buddy who is bringing it over here to me in another 10 days. The freehub body is on the way too. I'm hooking it up to a DTSwiss 240s rear hub.

I got the 156q BB30 to use on a Chinese carbon hardtail. Pics will be forthcoming.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

RobRobideau said:


> Can't wait to get my XX1 groupset over here in Nepal.


What do you need all those gears for in Nepal? It's so flat over there.  

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

AOK said:


> What do you need all those gears for in Nepal? It's so flat over there.


Haha! We actually do have some flat areas(terai), but I live in the Kathmandu Valley surrounded by big hills and mountains.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I got my first full ride in with xx1. Simply amazing! So quiet i actually notice my tire noise more than anything.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

I've had 2 rides with my XX1 group. I am in love. I put on the 30t ring on the 29er and it does feel (as the math confirms) like a 26t granny/36t cog. 

The real beauty is no guide, total silence!! The cass and chain are super quiet. It's all very well executed. I was quite surprised that i can backpedal in 1st gear without the chain walking down the cassette.

I haven't been on anything too chattery but the chain hasn't come off.

The shifting isn't quite XTR smooth, nor is the shifter quite as ergonomic, but it's better than my last 10sp X9 SRAM group. I'll gladly give up a fraction of a second delay in shifting for the massive gains in performance in all other aspects.

The derailleur is massive and I'll shed a tear the first time i clip a rock with it though.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Someone broke a chain on one of my past group rides. When we were ganging up to fix it ASAP, to get back to riding, that's when I wondered how much easier it would've been to put the chain back together with the Cage Lock feature, rather than gripping the chain tight and pulling each end together, while fighting the RD's tension. I think SRAM 1-up'd Shimano with that feature.

krispy brings up a good point. Not sure how a solid RD that only moves inboard and outboard is gonna cope with hits. The last time I clipped my RD, I ended up with a broken RD hanger, and since I didn't carry a spare hanger, that pretty much ended my ride. It happens. I went off a modest rock drop that went into a sharp right, and there was a rock on the inside of the turn. Didn't think I hit it and thought the force of landing the drop caused the break. Tried to go chainless on the way back and secured the RD and cable, but that didn't work too well since the hanger was part of the dropout. Might be a very good idea to carry spare hangers, as all the force goes into that, without much, if any, of the force being absorbed.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I too cant believe how quiet it is. I went down an incredibly rooty and rocky trail littered with drops and rock gardens and the only noise I heard was the sound of tires on the dirt. Zero chain issues!

I do agree down shifting isnt as smooth as xtr, but upshifts feel great to me!


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## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

as others mentioned..this might be enticing to most, but the cost alone is insane! I did some math on the gear calculator and the difference between most 2X10 systems isnt much at all..im currently running 2X9 but just changed over to 1X10, i have no intentions on running this setup until they come out with a more cost effective groupset. 400 dollars for a rear cog? that weighs more than my current setup? hard pressed.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Does XX1 weigh more than your entire setup? Remember to add whatever you're using to hold your chain on.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

The 11s cassette is lighter than an XTR 10 sp cass is. It is heavier than XX.


XX 1099 11-36 208g
XG 1080 11-36 239g
XX1 1199 10-42 260g
XTR 980 11-36 275g

Keep in mind the XD driver (XX1 freehub body) should be a few grams lighter too.


The lightest E 13 XCX guide is 56g., So the weight is right about the same ad 1x10 depending on your top guide, the weight of a spider and the ring you choose. 

For me there's still no comparison since 1x10 is a pain in the ass (low back to be exact) to run year round in the Rockies. For me it's just to tall for cold winter rides, long days in the steeps etc so i end up switching back and forth. Done with that now!!

I'd imagine that the boys at SRAM are working on an X9 level group. I'd hope that they have both a 10t version and an 11t version that would fit on standard hubs so that mfg's can spec them on a wide variety of bikes for '14.

I'm not trying to defend SRAM, the stuff is ridiculously expensive, just trying to state the facts.


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## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

Mind you i am sporting a 1X9 as of right now, i also have a XTR rear cog which is 30 grams lighter than the claimed weight of the XX1, my front crank just has a 30t chainring, and a ethirteen bash, which is something i would use with the XX1, i also have ceramic ball bearings for the crank which were only 19 bucks each. Total weight of my entire setup will either be dead close if not less than the XX1. Even if i decide to go with 1X10, its not much heavier over my current setup. (as i can still use current crankset). 

But as i stated earlier, to pay 400+ dollars, that cog better weigh much less over my current setup to even be worth mentioning. The rear deraileur is nice, but the price..overkill imo. Sram is taking advantage considering they are the only manufacturer to produce a 1X11. However like what i mentioned, check gearing ratios, its not something that over the top to where it justifies that price tag. I have the money to spend, but i cannot justify the chnge over jmho.

I recently purchased a xtr rear der and a 10 sp cog and a xt shifter. All of which will be added prior to next season depending on weather. But all i spent was 300 total..got alot on sale through jenson and amazon. Huge difference in cost in comparison to.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Eventually XX1 will go down down in price. By next summer everything will be discounted. I wouldn't be surprised if it's cheaper by March.


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## dlennard (Jun 22, 2011)

Jesse 

I agree the prices are high and guess they will come down in time. Your system 1x9 or 1x10 may be close to the same weight as the XX1, but does not have the same gearing so it is not really apples to apples. To have the same gearing you would have to make your system a 2X adding more weight. I run a 1X9 on my local trails, but when heading to the mountains I put the 2X stuff back on which is a pain. I do have XO stuff and will more than likely will get XX1 when it wears out which is less than XX if you by in a group. If they make the rear cassette in a lessor grade I would get it.


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## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

I agree it would be nice if the price came wayyy down lol even if the cog went up 20 grams in weight for cost svings or whatever..the current price cant be justified. 

I dont see the need to go back to 2X anything, especially when i convert over to 10 spd i currently have 32 and 30 tooth chainrings, which will cover a great del of riding for me in the springs and curt gowdy area. I even took my current 1X9 setup out to great falls mt and never felt the need for a 22t chainring. Maybe if i stop riding for a few months i can potentially see the need for a 2X system, but as of right now i dont touch it. 

Im even debating stepping away from my 1X9 and going to a 10 spd as there really isnt much of a difference, i think from a ratio from 23.5 to 22?


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

A little off topic, what 30 t rings are you guys running on your 1x 9/10s setups?


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## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> A little off topic, what 30 t rings are you guys running on your 1x 9/10s setups?


this is where i got mine for my XT 770 crankset, just removed all the hardware, slapped this ring on and my bashguard and i was good to go. setup is pretty damn light, others are using bling rings and so on, but you will have to purchase a new crank along with chain rings. This guy makes them so we can use our current cranks with very little modifications. here is the thread in regards to, i took pics of my particular setup at the end of the thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-components/30-tooth-104-bcd-485289-8.html#post9961020

I have been running a 1X9 with my stock 32T chainring, i added a 30t to put a little less strain on my legs when im on those 20mile rides or so. been on 37% grades with this setup and havent had any issues. this can also be run with 10spd setups no probs. so if i do decide to run my 10 speed setup when it comes in, i can. I am still debating though, i might call and cancel my orders considering the ratio differences..very small in comparison to.


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## mbco1975 (Feb 28, 2012)

jesse101 said:


> I agree it would be nice if the price came wayyy down lol even if the cog went up 20 grams in weight for cost svings or whatever..the current price cant be justified.
> 
> I dont see the need to go back to 2X anything, especially when i convert over to 10 spd i currently have 32 and 30 tooth chainrings, which will cover a great del of riding for me in the springs and curt gowdy area. I even took my current 1X9 setup out to great falls mt and never felt the need for a 22t chainring. Maybe if i stop riding for a few months i can potentially see the need for a 2X system, but as of right now i dont touch it.


If you are happy with 1x9, I don't see why you would even look at XX1...

XX1 is a replacement for someone on 2x or 3x. If you convert from 2x or 3x to XX1 you can drop a fair amount of weight, have a more durable drive chain and at the same time lose very little gear range.

If you compare XX1 to XX, the price of XX1 is reasonable. The XX cassette is $395, but the XX crank set is $200 more. If you add in a FD and a second shifter you are looking at several hundred $ less for XX1. It is also lighter and should last longer.

I'm currently on 1x9 due to my front shifter breaking. I feel I'm missing a gear at both ends. Similar to krispy I'm getting lower back pains doing lots of climbs with 1x9 (e.g. last weekend did 22 miles / 4700 ft climbing). For me XX1 makes sense, even at the current price, so I plan on buying it early next year.


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## dlennard (Jun 22, 2011)

[email protected] said:


> A little off topic, what 30 t rings are you guys running on your 1x 9/10s setups?


I am using a 1x9 with 11-34 in the back and 36 or 32 in the front. I have been putting adding a 24 to the front (2x9) for areas with lots of tech climbing. My trails are pretty flat and I run out of gear with the 32. I would like the XX1 and was looking at going XX 2x10, but the XX1 would cost less for new parts in a group. I would guess that the used xx stuff will come down in price with a lot of it going up for sale because of the XX1.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Ok I have just been for a 2 1/2 hour ride with my Jet9 RDO with full XX1 set up, But took the wheel with the XX1 cassette off & fitted the wheel with the 10 speed casette on it gave it a small tune & went out for my ride.

Here is how it went.

Shifter Rear cog
1st 1st = mint
2nd 2nd = mint
3rd 3rd = mint
4th 4th = mint
5th 5th = mint
6th 6th = mint
7th 7th = mint
8th 8th = mint 
9th 9th = mint
10th 10th = clicking & not changing down
11th 10th = mint

So is well usable & can work well, not perfect but for those that want to build a XX1 bike but cant get the free hub yet, short term you can get away with running the 10 speed cassette.

I hope this helps someone.


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## Christiaan25 (Dec 7, 2011)

@muzzanic. Thank you! That is good news.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

I got in a nice solid ride today. I did some stupid steep climbs, up steep hiking trails that are good DH runs. These are climbs i can't clean nonstop on any bike/gearing setup. Equipped with the 30t ring, the climbs were doable, but stopping a few times and the heart rate at redline. The feel of the suspension under power and the smooth feel of the ring, chain and cassette was fantastic. The gearing is adequate for the majority of my rides and gives me a tall gear for high speed descending and road work to and from the trail head. I'd like to switch to a 28t for the winter when i'm breathing in cold air and riding some snow. 

The runs down were just as rocky and offered a nice array of patchy snow and ice. I completely forgot about the drive train and was just focusing on the trail and surfy snow ruts.Thinking back i know i back pedaled to move my feet around, and coasted long sections without getting a forward rotation in. Every time i slid around an icy corner with a foot off i'd jump on the pedals for a few strokes upon exit. I don't recall my chain doing some janky dance for a second before figuring out where it belonged. Just clean and totally silent power delivery. The front ring locks the chain on so well, it seems to help the rear of the bike as well. No doubt the stiff clutch and the completely revised RD linkage are adding up as well.

The shifting is pretty good. It's reasonably quick from gear to gear from 2nd to 11th. Hopping up to the big ol' alloy 42 isn't 100%, especially in a panic shift to your bailout gear. I can live with it. The other high end Sram cassettes' alloy cogs aren"t much better though.

As excited as i am to have a wide range in a 1x setup, the quiet-controlled-dependable-locked in feel the drive train has is really a big step forward in bicycle drive trains.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

One thing i didnt think about that I really love is the simplicity of cleaning the single ring up from. After my ride last night my buddies all had a ton of mud/pine needles caked around the front deraileur, but my bike was fairly clear in that area.


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## needajob (Oct 19, 2012)

Got my new xx1 cranks yesterday and ran them with a 2012 X9 9 speed shifter and derailleur along with a 1090 chain and Shimano 770 9 speed 11-34 cassette. No chain guide or n-stop. Went 12 miles and didn't drop chain on stuff I normally would. Shifted very well and it was very smooth and quiet. This is a great alternative to my old set up with bash guard and n-stop. Got them at Universal for $285. I added $15 more and used VIP15 to get 15% off $300. I the way I look at it I paid $240 for them. Not sure I want to spend the $$$ to go with the full xx1 set up. I must just stick with the X9 and go up to 10 speed and put the 9 speed on my other bike.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

upgradecycle.com has by far the best prices I've found for xx1. . I got my build kit really quick from them.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Yes when they bring the XX1 system down to X01 & X91 it is going to be on most bikes around here.


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## jesse101 (May 23, 2011)

Mr. Lynch said:


> upgradecycle.com has by far the best prices I've found for xx1. . I got my build kit really quick from them.


that price seems more appealing..however you will still need to purchase a bottom bracket depending which setup you currently run.

I agree, if they come out with a XO or X9, it will pretty much be standard on most bikes. At that point i will consider. but even at a 1000 dollars, just for a crank, shifter, chain, sprocket and derailleur?

on average each piece is 250 bucks..then you will also need to purchase a bottom bracket. At any rate it is a nice system, but yes...im kicking back waiting on the XO setup or even the X9, thats if they dont make the rear cog into a boat anchor.


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## Scotto (Mar 25, 2004)

Betzel said:


> The body for my Hope hub came in yesterday. And tomorrow my wheels will be build. And after that I guess it will takes ages for the weekend to come


I got to thinking after I read somewhere that you tighten the whole cassette on the cassette body, how do you get it off? It doesn't seem like there is any cassette body exposed to grab while loosening the cassette. I'm sure there is a way but I just can't picture it in my head.
I've been looking at the different gear ratios compared to the classic 2x10 and I think it is genius and can't wait to try it out in the spring.


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

It comes loose the same way you tighten it on the hub! Just use the same tool as you now use for Shimano and SRAM.

BTW, it wasn't a direct fit to my Hope hub. I needed a new 142x12 driveside adapter. In the pic above you see a adapter which has 2 steps (rings) towards the freehub. The cassette will lock itself on the biggest step (ring). I have somebody at work get rid of the second step (ring) almost completely and it works now. The only part of the secong ring that can stay is the part that will be inside of the freehub.

I asked Hope and they will come with a seperate adapter for 142x12 XD freehub.


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## MondoRock (Jan 9, 2011)

Any word on when the Mavic freehub will be available?


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I did a long ride today which included over 3k of climbing. 32t front 42t rear was plenty for all the climbs, but i could see dropping the front to 28t for some summer rides that have 4-6k of climbing.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

I'd have the opposite problem. I'd need to buy a bigger chainring like a 36 or maybe even a 38. There's no mountains around here.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

limba said:


> I'd have the opposite problem. I'd need to buy a bigger chainring like a 36 or maybe even a 38. There's no mountains around here.


I'm always curious about this. Could you elaborate? I'm good for 30 mph with 32x11 on a 29er. There's no way I can push that on the flats with trail tires at 25 psi. The only time I see it is on a sizable paved downhill.

I always assumed the people looking for higher gearing had the balls/skills to be hitting 30mph on a downhill trail and be interested in pedaling to go faster.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

car_nut said:


> I'm good for 30 mph with 32x11 on a 29er.


Hmmm, what would your cadence have to be to do that speed? Anything over 100 and I'd shift to a harder gear. Things get weird for me spinning above 120 rpm. 
I think your calculation might be off. Maybe mine is off :skep:
30 miles an hour is 48 k. No one is riding at 48 k for very long on their mtn.bike even on a flat paved road. 50 k is how fast the world's best time trial guys ride on their TT bikes on paved roads. I'd spin out of my 32/11 way before I got to 48k on my 26" HT. I never use my 32 on any paved roads including hills. I can ride in my big ring 44 and big cog 32 and climb everything around here if I feel ok. I never use my granny and only use my middle ring when I'm fried, on a trail I don't know or riding with Expert class guys.

According to this Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator I'd need a 38 ring with the 10-42 cassette to have the gears I use/need. A 32 chain ring wouldn't work for me where I live. We have hills but no mountains.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

car_nut said:


> I'm always curious about this. Could you elaborate? I'm good for 30 mph with 32x11 on a 29er. There's no way I can push that on the flats with trail tires at 25 psi. The only time I see it is on a sizable paved downhill.
> 
> I always assumed the people looking for higher gearing had the balls/skills to be hitting 30mph on a downhill trail and be interested in pedaling to go faster.


There are a few places on trails that I really like the 40+ MPH down his sections & I wish I could pedal faster, but the thing is they are over so quick & if having to choose I would rather have my bike geared for the rest of the trails.

I'm really liking the XX1, I have only bothered to get 28,30 & 32 chainrings at this stage & it works well for me.


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

limba said:


> Hmmm, what would your cadence have to be to do that speed? Anything over 100 and I'd shift to a harder gear. Things get weird for me spinning above 120 rpm.


That's as measured by my Garmin going down a long, steep hill on the road. I certainly can't push that on the flats, which is why I'm always curious about the people that ask for taller gearing. There are absolutely zero trails near me where I'd feel the need to pedal if I were going that speed.

As for the math:
30 mph = 0.5 miles/min = 31680 inches/min
29" * PI = 91.1 inches
31680/91.1 = 347.75 rpm (wheel)
347.75 * 11/32 = 119.5 rpm (crank)


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Yeah, that's too high rpm. We're both right. I wouldn't pedal that fast. I could but it would feel awkward. I'd shift to a bigger cog/chainring and have a slower cadence. 
There's no way I'd be able to use a 32/10 as my biggest gear, even my 39/11 on my cross bike wouldn't be high enough. I can use my 53 chainring on a few trails around here and I can *almost* climb my hills in my 39/27 on my cross bike.
It all depends on where you live and your fitness. I guess it's pretty flat around here. The guys on double ring XX can climb everything in the 39 big ring, they never use the 26 unless they're hurting.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

anyone with grip shifters getting accidental shifts?


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

Is the xx1 Hope freehub body as loud as the standard Hope Freehub? 

I like my Hope hubs, but damn they are loud.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

OldHouseMan said:


> Is the xx1 Hope freehub body as loud as the standard Hope Freehub?
> 
> I like my Hope hubs, but damn they are loud.


Yes it will be because it is only the cassette side that needed the full redesign & the freehub still has to fit into the same hub & work the same.


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

what lubes are people using?


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## vapezilla (Jan 27, 2012)

1x11 that's ten gears more then I need.


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

OldHouseMan said:


> Is the xx1 Hope freehub body as loud as the standard Hope Freehub?
> 
> I like my Hope hubs, but damn they are loud.


As an FYI, I got from one of the UK Hope Techshops, the special thinner pawl springs (which are less heavily sprung) and once swopped out, makes the hub a good deal quieter. If anything it seems to be too quiet now as I now have to use my bell to warn hikers that are up ahead. :madman:


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

OldHouseMan said:


> Is the xx1 Hope freehub body as loud as the standard Hope Freehub?
> 
> I like my Hope hubs, but damn they are loud.


Yeah, it's the pawl springs, not the body. Hope has softer, quieter springs now. I replaced my freehub body this summer and it came with the new springs, so I'd expect the XX1 bodies to have them too. They are noticeably quieter, although not what you'd call silent. Cheap, easy part to replace if it bothers you. Personally, I miss the noise. People hear me coming, which is nice on multi-use trails.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

limba said:


> I'd have the opposite problem. I'd need to buy a bigger chainring like a 36 or maybe even a 38. There's no mountains around here.


I'm sure you're aware of this, but they offer rings from 28-38. Jerome Clementz used a 38t on his 26" Cannondale to win some of the biggest Enduro races in the country.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Oh yeah, I know. I've already done the math and commented elsewhere in this thread. I'm not complaining about XX1. I think it's a great idea. I'm seriously thinking about buying it for next year but I'll have to spend another 100 dollars for a bigger chain ring.


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## [email protected] (Oct 1, 2005)

I was just watching the Sram XX1 cross country video on their site, some good info..

They mentioned Kulhavy (29er) using a 36t at the olympic games, and then dropping down 2 teeth for the world championships.

Shurter (27.5) mentioned using a 38t.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Cool. I'm on a 26".

*creepy voice*

but I want Nino's 27.5 Scott.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The SRAM guys at the 2x10 experience demo events advised people to stay in the big ring when riding trails. Didn't spend 2 hours on it to test endurance, but it wasn't hard to totally avoid the granny ring. Not surprised to hear people running XX1 with bigger rings.

Don't forget that a majority of rear suspension designs were designed to work best with a 32T ring. Browse this site if you want to read how a well-known guy analyzes different suspension designs: Linkage Design


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## Scotto (Mar 25, 2004)

Betzel said:


> It comes loose the same way you tighten it on the hub! Just use the same tool as you now use for Shimano and SRAM.
> 
> BTW, it wasn't a direct fit to my Hope hub. I needed a new 142x12 driveside adapter. In the pic above you see a adapter which has 2 steps (rings) towards the freehub. The cassette will lock itself on the biggest step (ring). I have somebody at work get rid of the second step (ring) almost completely and it works now. The only part of the secong ring that can stay is the part that will be inside of the freehub.
> 
> I asked Hope and they will come with a seperate adapter for 142x12 XD freehub.


I caught a video somewhere that shows how it goes on, the lock ring and inner sleeve are retained inside the cassette. The outside 42 ring lock on the body with the inner sleeve tightening everything on. Very cool stuff!


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## powerchord85 (Dec 19, 2012)

*X9 9spd/ XX Brakes*

dont know where to put this as i am new to this forum, but i have an X9 9spd shifter and an Avid XX read brake setup. will the matchmaker x work for this setup? if not, what specifically do i need?


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

Betzel said:


> It comes loose the same way you tighten it on the hub! Just use the same tool as you now use for Shimano and SRAM.
> 
> BTW, it wasn't a direct fit to my Hope hub. I needed a new 142x12 driveside adapter. In the pic above you see a adapter which has 2 steps (rings) towards the freehub. The cassette will lock itself on the biggest step (ring). I have somebody at work get rid of the second step (ring) almost completely and it works now. The only part of the secong ring that can stay is the part that will be inside of the freehub.
> 
> I asked Hope and they will come with a seperate adapter for 142x12 XD freehub.


I'm in process of sourcing parts for old Pro 2 to XD driver, so you need to take drive side adapter from Pro 2 EVO to lathe and trim off the wider lip to make the cassette fit?


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

powerchord85 said:


> dont know where to put this as i am new to this forum, but i have an X9 9spd shifter and an Avid XX read brake setup. will the matchmaker x work for this setup? if not, what specifically do i need?


Hi, Yes the X type will fit the shifter & the brake.


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## tezi (Dec 20, 2012)

needajob said:


> Got my new xx1 cranks yesterday and ran them with a 2012 X9 9 speed shifter and derailleur along with a 1090 chain and Shimano 770 9 speed 11-34 cassette. No chain guide or n-stop. Went 12 miles and didn't drop chain on stuff I normally would. Shifted very well and it was very smooth and quiet. This is a great alternative to my old set up with bash guard and n-stop. Got them at Universal for $285. I added $15 more and used VIP15 to get 15% off $300. I the way I look at it I paid $240 for them. Not sure I want to spend the $$$ to go with the full xx1 set up. I must just stick with the X9 and go up to 10 speed and put the 9 speed on my other bike.


So... I was wondering here. I tried to order XX1 cranks to replace my 3x10 drivetrain but my supplier said that I need a different chain with XX1 and then it wont work with my XTR rear mech. I rarely need the 3x10 so I want to change to 1x10 and I would love to use the XX1 cranks so I don't have to use chain guide on front. Ideally the full groupset would be perfect but I'm an a student budget :madman:

I guess the cranks should run fine with normal 10spd chain, as I believe the inner width is the same afterall?


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## azpoolguy (Oct 23, 2008)

tezi said:


> So... I was wondering here. I tried to order XX1 cranks to replace my 3x10 drivetrain but my supplier said that I need a different chain with XX1 and then it wont work with my XTR rear mech. I rarely need the 3x10 so I want to change to 1x10 and I would love to use the XX1 cranks so I don't have to use chain guide on front. Ideally the full groupset would be perfect but I'm an a student budget :madman:
> 
> I guess the cranks should run fine with normal 10spd chain, as I believe the inner width is the same afterall?


I just talked to my LBS and got the go ahead on the XX1 cranks to replace my current XT cranks that I'm running 1x10. . I'm still using the MRP1x until I go full XX1.

You will still need some type of front guide to keep the chain on the ring.


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## tezi (Dec 20, 2012)

azpoolguy said:


> I just talked to my LBS and got the go ahead on the XX1 cranks to replace my current XT cranks that I'm running 1x10. . I'm still using the MRP1x until I go full XX1.
> 
> You will still need some type of front guide to keep the chain on the ring.


That's nice. I have the XTR shadow+ so I'll try without the guide first and see if it works.


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## needajob (Oct 19, 2012)

I have over 100 miles on my xx1 cranks with a 9 speed chain, x9 short cage derailleur and shimano 770 9 speed cassette. I am not using a chain guide and have not dropped the chain. Good news for those who want to start with just the cranks.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

So does anyone have a weight on the XX1 crankset? W/O ring for comparison sake. Does it only come for 1 width BB (73?) and length (175?) Threaded or press in? 

I want my next crank set to be as light as possible and am also thinking of XX1. So if they can go together.... great.

Specialized has come up with some light cranks lately I think but I haven't checked into it. 

I'm assuming the XX1 rings are dedicated.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

If you really want to know which crank is the lightest that will work with XX1 you might have to wait a bit. It will probably be either Lightning (Specialized) or Hollowgrams. I'd wait a month and ask again in the weight weenie forum.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

But the lightning or hollowgram are double the cost of xx1. I just saw a used sworks go on ebay for 400 shipped. New xx1 is $285. 

Who has a weight?


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## skyak (Sep 21, 2008)

My 175MM GXP 168 Q Factor XX1 crank weighed 555 grams with 28 tooth ring and without bottom bracket.


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## jackattack (Nov 27, 2009)

needajob said:


> I have over 100 miles on my xx1 cranks with a 9 speed chain, x9 short cage derailleur and shimano 770 9 speed cassette. I am not using a chain guide and have not dropped the chain. Good news for those who want to start with just the cranks.


Is the X9 derailleur a type 2 ?


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## needajob (Oct 19, 2012)

No it's not type 2. It's a short cage x9 model just before the type 2. No problems at all.


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## sethic (Apr 26, 2012)

you'll never need a chain guide. sram guarantees it. Even Sram's enduro bikes do their insane gravity stuff without a chain guide and its never come off.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Specialized look to be ~ 40g lighter (based on this thread). No idea when their spider will be widely available though.

http://forums.mtbr.com/specialized/2013-stumpy-evo-s-works-29er-827651.html



Adroit Rider said:


> But the lightning or hollowgram are double the cost of xx1. I just saw a used sworks go on ebay for 400 shipped. New xx1 is $285.
> 
> Who has a weight?


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

You'll never need a chain guide. Sram guarantees it. Even Andy Schleck can ride it and almost never drop a chain.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

More hype for XX1. It just won an award for product of the year from VitalMTB.

2012 MTB Product of the Year, Vital MTB Shreddy Award - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> More hype for XX1. It just won an award for product of the year from VitalMTB.
> 
> 2012 MTB Product of the Year, Vital MTB Shreddy Award - Mountain Biking Videos - Vital MTB


Yes it is so nice to use.


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

+1 Muzzanic. Hopefully my second ride this weekend. First ride was amazing. Love it!


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## KenDobson (Jan 18, 2008)

Has anyone ridden XX! with grip shift yet?


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

Having trouble with my XX1(BB30) installation. The LBS mechanic is doing the work, but he can't get the crankset properly aligned. The drive-side spacer is too large and puts the chain ring so far to the outside that the chain can't get to the 2 lowest gears consistently falls off the chain ring when in the 3rd gear.

The plan is to turn down the spacer in a lathe to shift the chainring closer to center. Anyone else have this issue?


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

RobRobideau said:


> Having trouble with my XX1(BB30) installation. The LBS mechanic is doing the work, but he can't get the crankset properly aligned. The drive-side spacer is too large and puts the chain ring so far to the outside that the chain can't get to the 2 lowest gears consistently falls off the chain ring when in the 3rd gear.
> 
> The plan is to turn down the spacer in a lathe to shift the chainring closer to center. Anyone else have this issue?


How thick is the spacer? Is it an odd diameter or can you change out with another? Normal spacers are what,1/8"? 1/8" isn't going to give you 3 cogs of alignment correction. If it's that off I'd run no spacer on the right and move it to the left and see what happens.

Something odd is going on somewhere. I'd call Sram.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Betzel said:


> +1 Muzzanic. Hopefully my second ride this weekend. First ride was amazing. Love it!


Yup. Game. Changer.


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

RobRobideau said:


> Having trouble with my XX1(BB30) installation. The LBS mechanic is doing the work, but he can't get the crankset properly aligned. The drive-side spacer is too large and puts the chain ring so far to the outside that the chain can't get to the 2 lowest gears consistently falls off the chain ring when in the 3rd gear.
> 
> The plan is to turn down the spacer in a lathe to shift the chainring closer to center. Anyone else have this issue?


And is your BB 73 or 83mm, if yes, do you have 2.5mm spacers there? If yes, remove them, 2.5mm spacers are for 68mm BB only.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

RobRobideau said:


> Having trouble with my XX1(BB30) installation. The LBS mechanic is doing the work, but he can't get the crankset properly aligned. The drive-side spacer is too large and puts the chain ring so far to the outside that the chain can't get to the 2 lowest gears consistently falls off the chain ring when in the 3rd gear.
> 
> The plan is to turn down the spacer in a lathe to shift the chainring closer to center. Anyone else have this issue?


We will need more Info.

What bike are you fitting it to, Not sure that it matters but are you sure the BB is in the right way ?

I have not fitted a BB30 XX1 crank but have fitted the X0 BB30 & I'm sure it is the same crank.

There are options with dust cover seals, You haven't got them all fitted have you ?

What side fo you have the wavey washer fitted ?

Has the guy read the instructions, I have never had a problem fitting Sram BB30 & I have always fitted the wide spacer & never need to machine it.

I think you may need to take it to another bike shop.


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

Thanks for the responses. The spacers, washers, etc. are all in the spots indicated by the instructions. The drive side spacer is ~10-12mm thick. If the spacer is moved to the other side, the chainring is too close to the frame. If it is removed entirely, the crankset can slide back and forth. We can get several MM of adjustment from the non-drive-side threaded spacer, but because of the large drive-side spacer, it doesn't change anything on the driveside. I'll try to get some more specific measurements and pics today.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

RobRobideau said:


> Thanks for the responses. The spacers, washers, etc. are all in the spots indicated by the instructions. The drive side spacer is ~10-12mm thick. If the spacer is moved to the other side, the chainring is too close to the frame. If it is removed entirely, the crankset can slide back and forth. We can get several MM of adjustment from the non-drive-side threaded spacer, but because of the large drive-side spacer, it doesn't change anything on the driveside. I'll try to get some more specific measurements and pics today.


Sounds like you have 73mm bottom bracket and are not using the preload adjustment properly.

Before installing the non drive side crank through the bottom bracket, hand tighten the knob that will sit next to the non drive side bearing when inserted. Insert spindle, do not use that 10-12mm spacer, attach the drive side and then go back to that knob thing on non drive side to remove play. That knob is called preload adjuster and is the solution to your problem.


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

Adroit Rider said:


> Sounds like you have 73mm bottom bracket and are not using the preload adjustment properly.
> 
> Before installing the non drive side crank through the bottom bracket, hand tighten the knob that will sit next to the non drive side bearing when inserted. Insert spindle, do not use that 10-12mm spacer, attach the drive side and then go back to that knob thing on non drive side to remove play. That knob is called preload adjuster and is the solution to your problem.


Thanks, but without the spacer there is still play even with the preload adjuster knob at it's maximum extension.


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

RobRobideau said:


> Thanks, but without the spacer there is still play even with the preload adjuster knob at it's maximum extension.


http://cdn.sram.com/cdn/farfuture/A...hdocs/95.6118.006.000_rev_b_xx1_cranksets.pdf

Then 10-12mm thing is not a spacer but an elastomer to preload the bearing. Look at the instructions above. Are you using a mallet to tap the drive side on? Are you torquing to correct level?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I have to say, that's a really impressive manual.


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

The piece I am referring to is the piece illustrated at the base of the yellow arrow and i believe it is metal. 

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

Well, just so happens that I will be in your area tomorrow afternoon and will take that defective crank off your hands for $25. Deal?


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

Adroit Rider said:


> Well, just so happens that I will be in your area tomorrow afternoon and will take that defective crank off your hands for $25. Deal?


Haha! In my area huh? Nepal? They actually got it fixed without any machining! I honestly have no idea what they were doing wrong, but it works fantastically now. I'll take it out on a real trail ride today, but there is a fairly steep hill(paved) on the way back home from the bike shop and I was carrying my 2-year-old son on my back. I never had to use the lowest gear. Super smooth, easy shifts, even under load.:thumbsup:


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

Why? Mine works great, so does the set of RobRobideau (see post above) and muzzanic and I can name a few more...

edit: nice pics on your blog Rob!


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

Got in a 1.5 hour trail ride with the new drivetrain and it works like a dream. Exactly what I was hoping for. Even while bouncing down bone-jarring rocky paths like this, no dropped chains or even chain slap.:thumbsup:









@betzel Glad you enjoyed the pics!


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

After >80km, I lost the chain for the first time and it was my own fault. A half-inch-diameter stick found its way into the drivetrain. Here are a few pics of it mounted on my Chinese carbon 29er hard tail.



















Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD


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## vapezilla (Jan 27, 2012)

Has anybody had the xx1 long enough to comment on chain wear?


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

RobRobideau said:


> After >80km, I lost the chain for the first time and it was my own fault. A half-inch-diameter stick found its way into the drivetrain.


Rob, that's cheating and doesn't count as losing a chain in normal conditions. No, just kidding, seriously...I don't read something was damaged so lucky you! Would be a pity if you had to change de RD already....


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

You are right, it definitely doesn't count and I am blessed not to have any damage to spokes or components!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

In the past sticks have been the death of RD's for me, XX1 construction seems much sturdier, which direction did the chain suck in the woodwork (did it go through RD or not)?


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

I don't know exactly what route it took, but it ended up trapped between the spokes of the rear wheel and the rear derailleur. It took quite a bit of twisting, wiggling, and finagling to get it out. The rear derailleur had to have taken a decent hit.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Varaxis said:


> I have to say, that's a really impressive manual.


Tech writers are expensive, thus the price on the group.


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## sakucee (Mar 29, 2011)

RobRobideau said:


> I don't know exactly what route it took, but it ended up trapped between the spokes of the rear wheel and the rear derailleur. It took quite a bit of twisting, wiggling, and finagling to get it out. The rear derailleur had to have taken a decent hit.
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2


So there is hope it wont get shredded on first contact with pine branches.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Got this funny little question that's been tickling my head for the past couple of weeks:

What is Rotor going to do about XX1? Are they going to be able to come out with an elliptical Q-ring that will hold the chain on without a guide like SRAM's? 

I guess there are both practical and patent concerns to think about. Will Rotor (and/or all the other chainring manufacturers) be legally allowed to copy the tooth design that makes the front of XX1 so special?


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## mattomoto (Jan 12, 2006)

vapezilla said:


> Has anybody had the xx1 long enough to comment on chain wear?


I have a fair amount of time on a chain (since mid August) and it is doing just great. I am pretty good about cleaning it quite often but it has seen some abuse too. Since there were not many of these chains in early going, this particular one went through World Cup finals, training, Olympics, more training and World Champs then on to my bike for some more abuse and Iceman. Continues on today :thumbsup:

Sram does say it is their strongest chain they have ever manufactured. Time will tell. Building up my new Trek Superfly 100 SL this week with a new group. Can't wait to get out on it even if it is in the snow!!!!


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Let us know what you think of the new frame too.


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## mattomoto (Jan 12, 2006)

limba said:


> Let us know what you think of the new frame too.


Sure will. If it is half as fantastic as the SL hardtail I have been riding, I will be on cloud 9!


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## Noosphere (Oct 2, 2011)

I've been considering this drivetrain for the past few days, and I'd like to thank all of you for this enlightening thread !

However, there is one question whose answer I can't find : could I go from a 28t chainring to a 32t without changing the chain ? Assuming that my primary chainring would be a 30t.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Noosphere said:


> I've been considering this drivetrain for the past few days, and I'd like to thank all of you for this enlightening thread !
> 
> However, there is one question whose answer I can't find : could I go from a 28t chainring to a 32t without changing the chain ? Assuming that my primary chainring would be a 30t.


Yes Just. I have been told that it can cover 4 teeth difference. I haven't fitted my 28 yet but use the 30 & 32 with same chain no problems .

In the grand skeem of things even if you couldn't what an extra chain.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

I had the same question. I'd want a 36 or 38 tooth ring. So I'd put one of those on the crank, fit the chain and then keep the 32 around in case I go somewhere hilly or buy a 29er.
These chains are supposed to last so if you did switch rings you could keep the old ring/chain combo together in case you switch back.


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## Noosphere (Oct 2, 2011)

muzzanic said:


> In the grand skeem of things even if you couldn't what an extra chain.


Very true, not having to switch chains would just be less effort 

Thanks for the info.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Noosphere said:


> Very true, not having to switch chains would just be less effort
> 
> Thanks for the info.


For that matter having 1 bike with 28 tooth & 1 with 32 tooth rings would be even less effort:thumbsup:

Thats if you don't count the extra effort it would take to make the money to pay for it.


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

I talked to Rotor Ring a month ago and they said they weren't planning to make rings to fit XX1 cranks but I didn't specifically ask if they had any plans to try an alternating tooth thickness ring. I don't remember hearing if Sram patented it. 
I can't imagine they how much they would charge for and alternating tooth thickness rotor ring. I'm a Rotor Ring fan and am going to go XX1. I'm having a tough time deciding if I'll keep my current rotor ring and run a top mount chain guide or run the XX1 crank. 
If I can live with the 33t front ring instead of a 30t I'm leaning toward sticking with Rotor.


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## hmorsi (May 14, 2008)

osokolo said:


> good to know... my plan is to switch to 33 front as well...


32 with12-34 soon to be 34 with 11-36. Can do everything i want on it from amateur XC racing to all around trail lollygaging. Couldn't be more satisfied within losing the front derailleur, shifter and two chain rings. Do it!

Sent from my S3 using Tapatalk 2


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

muzzanic said:


> Yes Just. I have been told that it can cover 4 teeth difference. I haven't fitted my 28 yet but use the 30 & 32 with same chain no problems .
> 
> In the grand skeem of things even if you couldn't what an extra chain.


I was told a 2 teeth difference in both ways. So if you run a 30t chainring you can ride 28 and 32. But maybe 4 teeth difference will work also if I understand you correctly? I'm waiting for my 28t (riding 32t now) and have a second chain for it.


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

And I was also told at the LBS that the chainlock can be used more often than once. But only with the same chain. When using a new chain you should use a new lock.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

chomxxo said:


> Got this funny little question that's been tickling my head for the past couple of weeks:
> 
> What is Rotor going to do about XX1? Are they going to be able to come out with an elliptical Q-ring that will hold the chain on without a guide like SRAM's?
> 
> I guess there are both practical and patent concerns to think about. Will Rotor (and/or all the other chainring manufacturers) be legally allowed to copy the tooth design that makes the front of XX1 so special?


I think any crank/chain ring manufacturer can make a taller tooth profile, right? I know the SS cogs and chainrings are already taller by a smudge. You can't patent chain line or Q factor I'm pretty sure so these mfg's can make whatever they want.


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## mattomoto (Jan 12, 2006)

I had no problem switching between a 32 and 34 on Emily Batty's bike, but when we went to 36, it was too short. It was originally sized for a 32 though so if you size it off your middle sized ring, I would bet it will be fine.

I bet also, once you start riding with the 10-42, you will not need to switch the ring much. I live here in Colorado and have only found the 36 is needed for me. 34 was a little small when having to connect downhill paved stretches and I have not found anything I need smaller than the 36/42. If I can't make it on that combo, I am probably walking anyway :lol: I have done some super steep climbing with it and 4 hour rides in the "hills" here- pretty good for me. If I knew there was no super fast downhills/road riding stretches, I would probably run the 34 though. Everyone is different though, but I suspect most will not need more than 2 different rings in their arsenal :thumbsup:

Em loves her bike


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

First ride on my 1x10 setup with XX1 cranks and chainring today. I have to agree 100% with the folks who have mentioned how quiet the drivetrain is with XX1. 

The new drivetrain + my silent XTR brakes made for the quietest ride as far as bike noise I have had.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Were you previously using Shimano shifters? Any complaints at all with XX1?


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

North Shore Billet is planning to produce aftermarket spiders for XX1 rings. This is good news for me - I have some XO cranks that I would like to run a XX1 ring on.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2013/01/23...gs-for-sram-cranks-universal-spiders-for-xx1/

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

mattomoto said:


> Em loves her bike


And now she's back on Shimano.

I get it, that's how racing and teams and being a pro goes...

I just wonder how soon before Shimano has their top riders on a similar 1X system, of if most Shimano pros prefering the 1X will just used chainguides/11-36 cassettes.


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## korbs (Oct 19, 2009)

just looked through Hope pro 2 evo specs on their site, concidering the trials/ss hub bodies are the same, wouldn't that hub work with the XD driver too? 
or am i wrong?


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## car_nut (Apr 5, 2010)

korbs said:


> just looked through Hope pro 2 evo specs on their site, concidering the trials/ss hub bodies are the same, wouldn't that hub work with the XD driver too?
> or am i wrong?


Unless I'm missing something, their trials/SS hubs are different than their geared hubs. The SS/Trials hubs have a hub with symmetric spoke flanges and a freehub that is about 30% shorter than the geared freehub.


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## madskatingcow (May 23, 2006)

chomxxo said:


> What is Rotor going to do about XX1? Are they going to be able to come out with an elliptical Q-ring that will hold the chain on without a guide like SRAM's?


I'm also interested, so I sent them a mail and got following response :

_Hi, we are working on a new design matching this groupset, but honestly, there is no release date so far._

The quesion whether or not a chainguide would be needed was not answered.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

AOK said:


> North Shore Billet is planning to produce aftermarket spiders for XX1 rings. This is good news for me - I have some XO cranks that I would like to run a XX1 ring on.
> 
> New North Shore Billet Single Chainrings for SRAM Cranks, Universal Spiders for XX1 - Bike Rumor
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


That's cool as an alternative, and it says they will be thicker to "help" with keeping the chain on, but still they don't have the special teeth that the Sram does. Possibly patented.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

modifier said:


> That's cool as an alternative, and it says they will be thicker to "help" with keeping the chain on, but still they don't have the special teeth that the Sram does. Possibly patented.


You are referring to the NSB chainrings.

I was referring to the blurb in the article that says NSB is also working on a XX1 *spider* so you can use XX1 chainrings on XO or X9 cranks.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

AOK said:


> You are referring to the NSB chainrings.
> 
> I was referring to the blurb in the article that says NSB is also working on a XX1 *spider* so you can use XX1 chainrings on XO or X9 cranks.


Good to know


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## DRILLINDK (Mar 12, 2012)

Mark, for later reading.


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## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm not sure if anyone else is having the same issue as I, but so far I hate this thing on my Tallboy. I went on a single ride after transferring the XX1 from my Highball to the Tallboy and I'm already planning on going back. While peddling up the first uphill climb in 2nd gear I noticed a popping sound coming from the rear wheel area. The sound was traced back to the rear derailleur pulley arm. It appears as though the "Type 2 clutch" is popping every time the suspension is compressed near half way, or less. I followed the chain install direction to the tee, fully compressed suspension plus a link. Hell, I even added 2 more links once I found the cause of the noise. The noise is most obvious in 1st through 4th. 

I'm really hoping that others have had this same issues with some type of resolution. The noise/feeling really has me not wanting to ride the bike. It just feels like something is loose within the suspension and makes riding it very annoying.


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## AOK (Jan 25, 2004)

There are several threads on the type 2 clutch popping issue in the drivetrain forum. Not just an issue with XX1 from what I read. I have two T2 XO derailleurs with no issues so far. Hoping they don't start popping in the future.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

What wheel & freehub are you running ?



bassn said:


> I'm not sure if anyone else is having the same issue as I, but so far I hate this thing on my Tallboy. I went on a single ride after transferring the XX1 from my Highball to the Tallboy and I'm already planning on going back. While peddling up the first uphill climb in 2nd gear I noticed a popping sound coming from the rear wheel area. The sound was traced back to the rear derailleur pulley arm. It appears as though the "Type 2 clutch" is popping every time the suspension is compressed near half way, or less. I followed the chain install direction to the tee, fully compressed suspension plus a link. Hell, I even added 2 more links once I found the cause of the noise. The noise is most obvious in 1st through 4th.
> 
> I'm really hoping that others have had this same issues with some type of resolution. The noise/feeling really has me not wanting to ride the bike. It just feels like something is loose within the suspension and makes riding it very annoying.


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## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

I'm running Enve XC carbons with the DT-swiss 240 XD driver.


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## c-wal (Jan 23, 2004)

All of the people I know running the type-2 derailleurs are having the same issue.


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## kfb66 (Oct 27, 2010)

c-wal said:


> All of the people I know running the type-2 derailleurs are having the same issue.


I ran an X9 Type 2 derailleur for last half of last race season ... far and away the best rear der I've ever had on a bike, zero issues! Running mine on a f/s Jet9.


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## bassn (Jul 12, 2011)

c-wal said:


> All of the people I know running the type-2 derailleurs are having the same issue.


Yep, definitely a common problem full suspension users are running in to. It's back on the hardtail and works great. It's a shame because my initial thought when purchasing the set up was to have the flexibility of using it on either bike. Oh well, at least not a total loss.

I'll wait and see what Shimano comes up with. At least I have the ability of adjusting the clutch on my XTR Shadow.


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

I know quite a few people running them on Jet9 RDO's & Rip9's for a while now with no problems.

Both bikes are known for not having much pedal feed back over bumps.



c-wal said:


> All of the people I know running the type-2 derailleurs are having the same issue.


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## epiphreddy (Dec 23, 2007)

I have an XO T2 on my Jet RDO and it works perfectly. In fact I am running mine 1X with a MRP 28T front (Sram XO crank) and 11/34 XT 10Sp cassette with no chain guide and it works great.


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## DYard (Feb 21, 2013)

Yeah its an intriguing system, i worry though, 11 gears how many times will the hanger need to be straightened per year?


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

At least as many as you wack it.



DYard said:


> Yeah its an intriguing system, i worry though, 11 gears how many times will the hanger need to be straightened per year?


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## Betzel (Aug 29, 2009)

No probs what so ever on my full suss Marin Mount Vision. Drivetrain is absolutly quiet even when going through the suspension.


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## andresco50 (Apr 19, 2012)

Hey guys I will install the XX1 in my stumpy 2013! I love hills and use a lot the 26/36 chain position I want to know which chainring I will need to have the same ratio??? I'm thinking in the 30t


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Gear Calculator


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

I am running the 30 on front of my Rip9 RDO & it's very close to the 26/36


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## andresco50 (Apr 19, 2012)

muzzanic said:


> I am running the 30 on front of my Rip9 RDO & it's very close to the 26/36


Yeah I will order with the 30t chainring looks like is the best for high and long distance hills the 28t will be too small for flats in marathon races


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## kaiser2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Can I ask users what they think of the chainset? I'm considering one for use with a 1X10 Shimano set up, they seem like amazing value all things considered. The only thing holding me back is using SRAM with Shimano from a aesthetic/continuity point of view. Its either this or wait a bit for the new rings coming out from the different manufacturers and mount on a regular pair of cranks.


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

kaiser2 said:


> Can I ask users what they think of the chainset? I'm considering one for use with a 1X10 Shimano set up, they seem like amazing value all things considered. The only thing holding me back is using SRAM with Shimano from a aesthetic/continuity point of view. Its either this or wait a bit for the new rings coming out from the different manufacturers and mount on a regular pair of cranks.


wolftoothcomponents.com

I'm running their 30T 104 BCD ring on XT cranks, and I love it so far. Very quiet and no chain drops so far, including a couple of crashes.


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## kaiser2 (Jul 27, 2008)

hillharman do you have any pics of your set up? This is one of the alternatives I had in mind. (Turbines the other)


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## hillharman (Sep 8, 2011)

kaiser2 said:


> hillharman do you have any pics of your set up? This is one of the alternatives I had in mind. (Turbines the other)


Not at the moment. I'll try to remember to snap some pics when I get home.


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Here is a pic and intro for the Wolf Tooth ring: First Look: Wolf Tooth Components Drop-Stop chainring | Bike198

Only have about 20-30 off road miles on it so far, but loving it. No chain drops at all.

-Tom


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm already setup with the full XX1 drivetrain, but it's interesting to see all the manufacturers that are announcing and producing their own version of the XX1 style/ narrow-wide chainrings:

Sram XX1 Aftermarket Chain Rings

Why Do We Need or Want Aftermarket XX1 Chain Rings?


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## kaiser2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Rings are also coming from Works Components, Absolute Black and Goldtec.


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## RobRobideau (Oct 12, 2012)

kaiser2 said:


> Rings are also coming from Works Components, Absolute Black and Goldtec.


Thanks! I updated the article, but I can't find any information about the Goldtec offerings. Do you have a link?


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## kaiser2 (Jul 27, 2008)

Sorry no, the Goldtec one is just forum chatter at the moment. But people have been in contact with them and they are imminent AFAIK. Drop them a mail I believe they are very good with comms.


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## andresco50 (Apr 19, 2012)

Guys Guys!! check this out in the 4:05 this vid shows the Emily's bike with the xx1 group but with x0 cranks!!!!!! woow maybe u can install a xx1 spider in x0 crank

SRAM XX 1 - CHAPTER 4: CROSS COUNTRY - YouTube

I will have my XX1 group in one week so nervous... Im riding my road bike every day to stay focused


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## Adroit Rider (Oct 26, 2004)

^
Yes, you can but Sram isn't selling the spider. 

I was going to call my LBS and tell them I bent my XX1 spider and to order a replacement. Do you think they would supply one?


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## andresco50 (Apr 19, 2012)

Adroit Rider said:


> ^
> Yes, you can but Sram isn't selling the spider.
> 
> I was going to call my LBS and tell them I bent my XX1 spider and to order a replacement. Do you think they would supply one?


Oh yeah maybe!! But could be a Sram strategy not sell that spiders because everyone will buy x0 cranks and will install their xx1 group!!! that x0 cranks in the vid are awesome in that color!!


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## Trophy (Jan 10, 2013)

My “new to me” aluminum Jet 9 is currently equipped with a standard X9 2x10 set-up with the only exception being an XO rear shifter. This is my first 29er, as well as, my first 2X10 group. The shifting is somewhat inconsistent and loud. Overall it seems rather sluggish compared to my old XT 26er.

I’m looking for an upgrade in shifting action and noise reduction. My LBS guy recommends the XX1 package. I’ve read most every article available but haven’t found much specific to the aluminum Jet 9. Also, Q-factor is a choice that I need to make if I decide on this group set.

Anyone running XX1 group on an aluminum Jet 9? If so, I’d be interested to know about your experience with it. At 46 I’m mostly into the fitness associated with XC riding. My local trails are fairly easy. I’m doing about 10 miles in just under an hour and ride about 60 miles per week.

Thanks,


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## Ace5high (Jan 4, 2011)

muzzanic said:


> I am running the 30 on front of my Rip9 RDO & it's very close to the 26/36


Man im getting behind the ball these days... Muzz your retiring bikes that many still cant get their hands on by the time I get around to updating my drivetrain... sheesh


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## muzzanic (Apr 28, 2009)

Ace5high said:


> Man im getting behind the ball these days... Muzz your retiring bikes that many still cant get their hands on by the time I get around to updating my drivetrain... sheesh


Retiring ? I'm looking at or bikes & theres's 7 Niners & 6 others.

maybe I do need to sell some.


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## JDZ (Jan 12, 2004)

Adroit Rider said:


> ^
> Yes, you can but Sram isn't selling the spider.
> 
> I was going to call my LBS and tell them I bent my XX1 spider and to order a replacement. Do you think they would supply one?


I have a spider for sale if you're interested.

classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=85209&title=sram-xx1-spider-and-32t-chainring-new-takeoffs&cat=12


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## WolfTooth (Nov 5, 2009)

andresco50 said:


> Oh yeah maybe!! But could be a Sram strategy not sell that spiders because everyone will buy x0 cranks and will install their xx1 group!!! that x0 cranks in the vid are awesome in that color!!


If you really like your crankset or don't want to shell out for an XX1, this is always an option 
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.160986490733488.1073741829.155112457987558&type=1


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Deleted...


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## Epic_Dude (May 31, 2010)

After just two rides, it's time to trade out the gripshifter for the trigger shifter. Here's why:

1) The reach adjust on the Avid Elixir R levers interferes with the gripshifter causing the brake lever not to reach in front of the hand grip like it should. One finger braking is all I get on that side. I spoke with Avid and they suggested I purchase an "internals Kit" that changes out the large reach adjust knob for something smaller. That is a possible solution to the reach issue but I'd have to order the kit and rebuild the lever with the new parts and that still wouldn't resolve the next two problems I'm having.

2) Reaching to the inside of the grip and twisting just isn't a natural movement for me.

3) In general I think SRAM made the grip too long, I have wide bars on my bike but the feel narrow since I need to choke up on the bars to keep part of my hand on the grip shift.

4) I know I would eventually learn but I keep downshifting when I want to upshift and vice-versa.

So I've already ordered a trigger shifter and will sell my almost new grip shifter. Once I install the trigger shifter I will be able to move the brake lever where it needs to be and start using my fingers to shift instead of twisting my wrist. I think switching over to the trigger will make the XX1 a perfect fit.


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