# Average speed - MTB vs Road



## Doc_d (Feb 11, 2005)

I'm just curious how much faster a road bike would be over flat, level pavement than a mountain bike. I'm not talking about hammering, just a 80 RPM cadence, in a sustainably easy gear in both bikes.

I know there are a lot of variables, but I'm just trying to get an idea. I don't have a computer on my MTB so I don't even know what speed I get on flat level pavement on my MTB.

Thanks!
Todd


----------



## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

A lot of variables indeed...

I'l say that I can spin along on my road bike at 18.5mph and with pretty close to the same effort I can ride the same, flat, paved trail on my MTB at 15mph.

FWIW, the road bike weighs 17lbs and the FS MTB weighs 32lbs.


----------



## Juan Speeder (Jan 13, 2005)

Depending on tires and pressure on the mtb, I'd guestimate that a road bike is about 20-30% faster than a mtb, at a moderate pace. The difference will increase with speed due to increased aerodymanic drag.


----------



## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Hard for me to compare speeds when I ride mountain vs road. My road routes include climbing, but not to the extent of my trail rides, nor do my mtb rides have the flow of my road rides. I'd think for a mtb ride on rolling terrain my speeds would be about 25-35% less than on the road bike; I don't have too many spots for either type of ride where it's level in any case.


----------



## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

*A little more data...*

On my usual 30 mile road ride on flatland I average 16-17mph. The usual MTB ride is about 20 miles averaging 7-8 mph. I feel considerably more spent after an MTB ride then a road ride...this is a good thing  .


----------



## Chester (Jan 15, 2004)

*Closer to 10-15% than 20-35%*

Well, so far people have reported 20-35 percent in their estimates. I think this is a bit high, although some of them have said it was for different routes..than the mtn biking..
And some were on slow mtn bikes versus faster mtn bikes.

I've done a lot of road riding on my mtn bike after hurting my neck....pinched nerve and all that......really hurts if I ride on bumps. Never seems to end. 
Anyway I finally got a road bike and have been doing some of the same roads. Now, I've only had the road bike briefly so I don't have too many time comparisons yet. Also I must mention that I have a fairly light hardtail (under 23 lbs) and I run some very fast mtn tires......knobbies, but they're Nokians NBX 2.0 Lights which are just about the fastest knobbie mtn tire available. Added to that, I've let the rear one wear way way down so the center is almost smooth...... Also, when using it on the road, I pump the tires up to about 52/54 psi.... Oh yes, and I can lock-out my front fork.

OK.......so with all that in mind, on some of my initial timed rides, I was getting somewhere about 6.5 to 8.5 percent faster.........But this is very preliminary data, until I really "go for it" as I get better aquainted with the ergonomics of the road bike...
Importantly, for the higher speed flatter runs, I am not getting all that aero since I put a high rise 40 degree mtn stem in place of the 8 degree road stem.....(for my neck problem)
And my road bike is not real light, weighing in at about 19 pounds. Not one of those 15.5 pound jobs. So many people would be getting better aerodynamic performance than I do at this juncture.

But when you do get rolling on the road bike on level terrain, with tires at 105+psi and get down into the drops, you easily move much faster...
Minimum improvement on flat is 2 to 2.5 mph
On easy low degree climb minimum 1.0 to 1.5 mph 
On 5 degree and above climbs.....I'm thinking .5 to 1.0 mph

I'm still learning how to climb on the road bike. Don't seem to be able to get the power leverage out of those road handlebars like I get from my mtn bars where you can really pull on them. I'll learn.

Now, if those times don't seem all that much faster, you have to look at it differently...
Take the low degree climb on one road I ride.... Over about 3 miles of that mild climb, I found on the first two times I timed it on the road bike, that was about 1.0 mph faster.
Doesn't sound like much but thats about 1.5 feet per second faster than the mtn bike.
So if you have two identical riders......one on the mtn bike setup like mine, and the other guy on the road bike.......then the road bike guy will be pulling 10 feet ahead every 7 seconds.... Or about a full bike length every 4 seconds.... Thats quite substantial from a competitive point of view......with the road rider steadily pulling away.
On that three mile mild climb it amounts to doing it in about 11:10 vs 12:00 for a lead of about 1,000 feet over the mtn bike.

As others have said, the higher the speed, the better the road bike advantage due to the tire and aerodynamics. Especially on the downhills where the mtn bike will "spin out" due to lack of proper gearing.

But I got to tell you, since everyone seems to think that the mtn bike has from 20 to 30 percent disadvantage, that just makes it more fun when you're out there on your mtn bike tailgating roadies..... Since I hurt my neck last September, I been having fun doing that every weekend... Not trying to pass them, but just sticking on their tail...
Turns otherwise milded mannered roadies in to fierce competitors as they try to drop the mtn biker, know/thinking they have a 20-30 percent advantage.
Makes for great training on my part and the number of "racers" is endless since roadies are coming along all day long  
Almost more fun on the mtn bike than on the road bike......and of course its always nice to be able to do the road and then cut off through the park any time you like. Sometimes I feel rather confined when on the road bike. Can't take all my shortcuts through the park.

Bottom line is that you really need to get two bikes.......and do both types of riding. 
Thats especially important during the winter when some of the trails just get too too muddy to have fun, whereas the streets dry up quickly.

Go borrow one of your friends road bikes and see how much faster you can go.


----------



## Squash (Jul 20, 2003)

*Well from personal experience....*



Doc_d said:


> I'm just curious how much faster a road bike would be over flat, level pavement than a mountain bike. I'm not talking about hammering, just a 80 RPM cadence, in a sustainably easy gear in both bikes.
> 
> I know there are a lot of variables, but I'm just trying to get an idea. I don't have a computer on my MTB so I don't even know what speed I get on flat level pavement on my MTB.
> 
> ...


I can maintain around 10mph on my mtb on a 42 mile fairly flat ride that I do now and then. On a road bike I was able to maintain 15mph. That's about a 6% increase in speed over the MTB. Don't know what the cadence was. Neither bike had a monitor for cadence. All I know is the speeds and that I could maintain them fairly easily the entire distance.

Good Dirt


----------



## meloh1 (Jan 13, 2004)

Aerodynamics is the 800 pound gorilla. All the rest is chump change, even weight. It 's the aero benefits of a road bike that make it go faster. Another poster observed he was less than 10% faster on his road bike but had changed his stem to a high rise for neck problems. This change to a more upright position almost assuredly accounts for the lower percentage advantage. 25-30% is probably on the high side. I'd estimate I would be 15-20% faster on my road ride vs. mountain but I never ride my mountain bike on the road nor do I ride my road bike on trails.


----------



## Jdub (Jan 12, 2004)

Squash said:


> I can maintain around 10mph on my mtb on a 42 mile fairly flat ride that I do now and then. On a road bike I was able to maintain 15mph. That's about a 6% increase in speed over the MTB.


 10mph on the mtb to 15mph on the road bike would be a 50% increase in speed.

I have done pretty extensive road riding on my dual squish mountain bike with slicks on it. Last year I did some training rides with friends who were doing the MS150 thing. I don't own a road bike and they all do, but I thought the slicks would equal things out.

What I found was that if I never had to "pull" (i.e. be the first one in the line that uses all the energy to cut the wind), I was able to keep up pretty well. However, at the end of 40 miles I was blown up and they were doing well. These are people who I trounced on singletrack, but they dominated me on the road, even with slicks.

I think it is a pretty significant advantage to be on a road bike, granted I was on a 27lb dual squish, but for rolling resistance, aerodynamics and gearing the road bikes hold a significant advantage in my mind.


----------



## Go Kart Motzart (Jan 2, 2004)

meloh1 said:


> Aerodynamics is the 800 pound gorilla. All the rest is chump change, even weight. It 's the aero benefits of a road bike that make it go faster. Another poster observed he was less than 10% faster on his road bike but had changed his stem to a high rise for neck problems. This change to a more upright position almost assuredly accounts for the lower percentage advantage. 25-30% is probably on the high side. I'd estimate I would be 15-20% faster on my road ride vs. mountain but I never ride my mountain bike on the road nor do I ride my road bike on trails.


I would have to disagree with you. I believe that rolling resistance is the major factor. For a couple years my only "road bike" was a Cannondale mountain bike with 700c wheels and road tires (disc brakes allowed this set-up). I did plenty of group road rides that I still do on my "real" road bike now and see almost no difference in average speed.

I would agree that the weight difference means little unless you are extremely hilly terrain.


----------



## stonethrow (Jan 4, 2005)

I owned an allez comp in 1997 but never enjoyed the road bike much. I sold it after a CAT 3 or 4 race and about 1000 miles. but that was then. Now, I train 80% on the road on my MTB with revolts. It's a 22.5 pound hardtail with those tires. I usually average 20MPH for a 65 mile ride on a hard day. On easy days, I average 17MPH for a 35 mile ride. When doing max aerobic efforts at 170-177bpm I average 24.4MPH for 25-35 minutes. 

I think I averaged about 4 MPH faster on my road bike back when I had it. So maybe 15%.


----------



## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I don't know why it stuck with me, but I remember reading years ago that the point where air resistance becomes more significant than rolling resistance is ~17 mph.


----------



## Chester (Jan 15, 2004)

*air resistance = rolling resistance at 7.5 mph*



evasive said:


> I don't know why it stuck with me, but I remember reading years ago that the point where air resistance becomes more significant than rolling resistance is ~17 mph.


Well here is on site that looks rather scientifica and it says the following...

"At approximately 12 km/h rolling and air resistance have equivalent magnitude. At higher velocities air resistance dominates quite strongly"

here is the site.....

http://damonrinard.com/aero/formulas.htm

See what you think....


----------



## meloh1 (Jan 13, 2004)

Check it out here www.analyticcycling.com


----------



## Chester (Jan 15, 2004)

*Yes and they have some new calculators*



meloh1 said:


> Check it out here www.analyticcycling.com


Thanks for the link.... I have not been there for a while and they seem to have some new calculators....

Here is one that is either new, or I just never saw it before....regarding wind resistance

http://www.analyticcycling.com/DiffEqWindCourse_Page.html

Little bits of getting more aero produce big results even at 15 mph.....where some folks don't normally think air resistance is all that big


----------



## Jdub (Jan 12, 2004)

Chester said:


> Little bits of getting more aero produce big results even at 15 mph.....where some folks don't normally think air resistance is all that big


 They should have watched the Lance Chronicles on OLN last year then....

Very interesting segment on testing in the aero tunnels, very eye opening.


----------



## Chester (Jan 15, 2004)

*Small example*



Jdub said:


> They should have watched the Lance Chronicles on OLN last year then....
> 
> Very interesting segment on testing in the aero tunnels, very eye opening.


Here is a small example I just ran.....two bikes....everything identical except "frontal area"
Test run is about 3 miles.. at 15 mph up a slight climb

Bike #1 has frontal area of .65 square meter and takes 12:00

Bike #2 has frontal area of .60 square meter and takes 11:40

20 seconds at approx 15 mph means at the end of that section Bike # 2 will have about a 440 foot lead........which I think we all agree is quite a bit when you are chasing someone.
I mean thats almost 150 yards.....and its about time to give up is you are chasing them and they are pulling away.

That is achieved by just reducing your frontal area from .65 to .60 or about 7.7 percent at only 15 mph and reducing your time by about 2.8%...
Lots of people could conciously reduce their frontal area by that amount........
I wish I had a wind tunnel........

I know the pros are just looking for reductions of perhaps a tenth of 1% but most of us are way off their efficiency standards with regard to aerodynamics during normal pedaling..
I know I am......expecially when on my mtn bike out on the road..
I make up for it by drafting roadies.....for big wind resistance reductions


----------



## stonethrow (Jan 4, 2005)

you can usually do 1/2 a mile an hour faster if you just dip your helmet-covered-head down and look at the ground. just an approximation. Not wise except on a straight road with little traffic.


----------



## ArmySlowRdr (Dec 19, 2003)

The below is making my head hurt



Chester said:


> Here is a small example I just ran.....two bikes....everything identical except "frontal area"
> Test run is about 3 miles.. at 15 mph up a slight climb
> 
> Bike #1 has frontal area of .65 square meter and takes 12:00
> ...


----------



## PMC (May 5, 2004)

Like others have said, lots of variables...

Saying that, a road bike will be more comfortable and faster on the road if set up properly. There is very little wasted energy on a road bike, pretty much every watt goes into propelling you forward.

How much faster? hard to answer but I'd say substantially faster.


----------



## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'd say at a medium pace, rolling resistance is the biggest thing. When I got my 1st MTB I got it w/ 2 wheelsets and mounted a set of 1.5 semi-slicks on 1 set and could do avg speeds of around 18mph for a 20 mile ride w/ hils. I have talked to guys who ride road bikes on the same highway and they say that's good since they do about 20 mph along the same road.

If you were to put a set of 1" road slicks on an MTB the only thing that would really make you fall behind a road bike would be their taller gears - who can comp[are w/ a 56 road big ring to a 44 on an MTB.

If you're really talking road rider v MTB rider on same size tires I think you'd get quite a bit of difference in speed. I'd thin a MTB could reach about 30-35 mph on flat compared to a road bike getting between 35-45 mph. I'd say the diff is between 15-25%


----------



## Chester (Jan 15, 2004)

*OK here is the average for people's estimates*

I took the estimates from 6 posters who gave concise figures, other than myself, and did some math...
Some people gave a single estimate and some gave a range...

1. The average low estimate was 18% faster
2. The average medium estimate was 21% faster
3. The average high estimate was 24% faster

4. The average low estimate using only 4 posters, (throwing out the high and low) was 17.5%

Conclusion..... Almost everyone estimates that there is at least a 15% difference, although I am not certain if they are all talking about the same situation......meaning that I think there would be a greater difference, percentage wise, at higher speeds where aero is more important, than at low speeds, on a climb for example....
Of course even on low speed climbs of 7% or greater, the lower weight issue of the road bike comes into play more while the aero effect lessens greatly...

So if you're going along on your road bike up a slight grade, at say, 15 MPH and a mountain biker is on your tail, you figure he is making the same effort as you would be doing at 17.7 mph. (+18%)
2.7 mph is large.......about 4 feet per second.............40 feet in 10 seconds
Thats a lot of difference between two riders...
So ineffect posters ares saying in the 15 mph range of speeds, a road biker doing equal work, would pass a mtn biker at +2.7 mph..................40 ft ahead in 10 seconds
Seems rather large, but perhaps its true


----------



## Big K (Feb 2, 2004)

*20%*

I've tested this in the past - flat 20% for a medium to medium-high effort level ride. I don't have cadence on my computer so I can't tell you for sure but I assume I was in that range. My way of measuring this was to run the same 13 mile loop with both bikes and measure the time differences. My road bike is an old beater so I assume the difference would be above 20% with a newer, lighter road bike (my mtb is relatively new/light, high-end FSR).


----------



## stonethrow (Jan 4, 2005)

no message


----------



## TobyNobody (Mar 17, 2004)

*Road is faster*

I don't have a computer on my MTB, but my guess is about 25-30kmh mtb vs 30-35kmh road.

I believe that if you put narrow slicks and drop bard on a mtb and mimicked (sp?) your road bike position, you would be quite a bit slower coasting down the same hill as you would on your road bike. 26" wheels are slower. I had 1" slicks on my old Wheeler mtb and it rolled slow as hell compared to my similar quality road bike. It felt like I was riding in sand by comparison.


----------



## Frozenspokes (May 26, 2004)

*Lets not even get into rolling resistance*

Different rubber compounds have different rolling resistances. Knobbies add to RR. Mtn tires are often made of softer compounds to increase traction in loose soil. Road tires are often made with dual compound treads (harder in the middle, softer on the sides) to decrease rolling resistance yet still provide grip when cornering.

But aero still wins. I know that just by getting into the drops and lowering my head on the roadie I can gain something like 1-1.5 MPH at the same percieved effort.


----------



## dovid (Apr 8, 2004)

You need an HPV (recumbent). With a decent fairing, it can be twice as fast! (I think...)

http://www.speed101.com


----------



## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

On my favorite "organ donar" dh road I can crack 60mph on the rodie where the XC MTB seems to top out at around 50, the freeride bike is a bit slower but I don't know how much as it will never see a computer.


----------

