# mtbr, you suck



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

> *Whenever we discuss e-bikes on Mtbr, the comments section erupts with all manner of vitriol. It almost feels like we posted a video of ourselves clubbing baby seals. *But the conversation is far different overseas. I know, I thought it was bs too, then I spent a few weeks in Europe. E-bikes are everywhere. In fact, there are entire tourist destinations that have been built around the concept of e-bikes, with trails for all ability levels that link to charming cafes with charging stations.


I actually took the time to look through the comment section on several of the most recent electric bike articles/reviews here and without counting I would guess that at least 75% of responses were positive or neutral. The rest range anywhere from mild objections to thoughtful and impassioned views as to why they aren't mountain bikes and shouldn't deserve equal access as them. Approximately 1 or 2% of comments might be considered "vitriol" (from both sides) which is a far cry from the opening sentence in the review.

The fact that mtbr is pro e-bike is apparent, which is no surprise considering the potential amount of money flowing in that direction but what is somewhat of a surprise to me is the anti-cyclist stance that seems predominate, as evidenced by inflammatory and trollish threads started by the resident moderator (http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/wilderness-bill-1018180.html, http://forums.mtbr.com/e-bikes/walking-pure-human-power-1008947.html, etc) as well as posting suggestions to any objections that it's best to just be quiet and accept them because they are coming whether you like it or not.

Maybe they are coming (to multi use trails) whether I like it or not but since it doesn't yet appear to be a done deal everywhere this does seem an appropriate place to voice opinions and/or objections. Conversely I believe it's totally inappropriate for mtbr to fuel internet wars by labeling anyone who disagrees with the European model for electric bikes is a "hater" which is expected from internet trolls, but not from the staff at mtbr.

The most adamant objectors here display no hate or vitriol whatsoever and mtbr should recognize that.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

JB, your usual thoughtful comments. It seems (to me) that initially there were much more vehement responses (including from me) than now. Also, many individuals have helped others understand that the environment isn't the same everywhere (duh!). It'll be interesting to see if "they're a 'comin" since the manufacturers are really trying to force feed us. For me building and riding them have been a blast.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

mtbr "never" sucks...


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Last I checked this is a free site, what do you want for nothing your money back or


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> but not from the staff at mtbr.


Staff? All the Moderators are volunteers. No one is paid, we all have our own opinions and are encouraged to be active in the forums.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Klurejr said:


> Staff? All the Moderators are volunteers. No one is paid, we all have our own opinions and are encouraged to be active in the forums.


OK then representatives. I wasn't referring to moderators in that sentence though, I was talking about the review author. If mtbr wants to be pro-electric bike that's fine by me but I do object to what seems at times to be an anti-cyclist bias from mtbr in general.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Bigwheel said:


> Last I checked this is a free site, what do you want for nothing your money back or....


I'm not whining, just b!tching. There's a difference. For example you could start your own thread and whine about me b!tching.


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## ElwoodT (Mar 13, 2011)

.dude! They're going to put you on a list.


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Oh crap, I hope I'm not already on that list
JBW, I'm with ya on this. It's only going to get muddier on this topic. Personally I'm concerned about them compromising our access issues and battles.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

ElwoodT said:


> .dude! They're going to put you on a list.


They're all out to get us! And now they can catch us on their new e-motor-bikes.

I'd love to continue this discussion, but I gotta make a run to the store for more duct tape and tin foil. I'm not on either side, really, I swear. *scurries away muttering to self*


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

ElwoodT said:


> .dude! They're going to put you on a list.


I think I've been on that list for awhile now. I wouldn't care so much about this issue if I weren't totally convinced it's all part of the vast right wing conspiracy. Move over Snowden, I'm going to bust this one wide open.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm not whining, just b!tching. There's a difference. For example you could start your own thread and whine about me b!tching.


Oops, my bad. I always get the two confused.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Klurejr said:


> Staff? All the Moderators are volunteers. No one is paid, we all have our own opinions and are encouraged to be active in the forums.


 This is news to me I thought all this harassment was a paid position!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I also have a question?
Will my free bike be here soon?


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## Anthem1 (Feb 9, 2008)

manitou2200 said:


> Oh crap, I hope I'm not already on that list
> JBW, I'm with ya on this. It's only going to get muddier on this topic. Personally I'm concerned about them compromising our access issues and battles.


This..... I don't care what you ride.
I do care about existing MTB trail access and what ebikes can do too this already sensitive subject.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

This thread started out good...
...now has faded into... hum drum... lalalalala

I expected better!

JB has dropped a level, maybe he is loosing the fight E-bikes are gaining everyday weather I like them, hate them, or just be quiet about them!

The answer is "They are already on trails"

I know the resident moderator is on many lists!


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

NEPMTBA said:


> This thread started out good...
> ...now has faded into... hum drum... lalalalala
> 
> I expected better!
> ...


And now you've been added to the spelling list. May have made the top of it too.


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## RamblerBill (Nov 29, 2015)

If you are looking for opinions I am not an e-bike fan. Perhaps I don't know enough about them yet but I ride a bike to stay fit and be competitive (in so much as a middle aged man can compete). The e-bike circumvents both objectives. Less need to put human effort in (less of a workout for a given ride) and makes comparison to your partners pointless (comes down to who has the best battery, motor etc...). Sure there is a place for them for commuting and such but the MTB trails should be non-motorized. If e-bikes are approved for MTB use it will become a slippery slope for other sorts of motorized vehicles to find their way in.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> This thread started out good...
> ...now has faded into... hum drum... lalalalala
> 
> I expected better!


A fair assessment, I did kind of drop the ball on this one. I suppose I just felt so much better after letting y'all know how lame I thought you were I sort of lost interest. Perhaps I should edit it and change the name to *"This thread? it sucks"* Anyway thanks for reminding me and I'll see what I can do about upping my game a bit.

I guess my biggest contention is mtbr propagating the "e-haters" myth via (intentionally?) misinterpreting posts suggesting that e-mountain bikes aren't the same thing as a mountain bike as hate or vitriol. The fact that electric bikes are not bicycles should seem obvious but inexplicably debates continue to drone on about what is or isn't a motor, or exactly how many watts is enough, or too much. If one rationally analyzed the "anti" posts here they would realize that the majority hate electric bikes no more than they hate cars, street signs, trees, dogs, rocks, etc.

Nope, mountain bikers don't hate e-bikes, they just hate the fact that they're polluting the sport of mountain biking by insisting that they're only "enhanced" mountain bikes, just a natural evolution no different than 27.5 wheels or clutch derailleurs, and that their existence requires vulgar words like "p-bike" and "speed limits" which are the very antithesis of mountain biking.

So here's the deal, they're not f'ing mountain bikes. They're motor bikes. Geez, is that so hard? Every dictionary that wasn't written in the last 5 years reads like this-

_noun
1.
a vehicle composed of two wheels held in a frame one behind the other,* propelled by pedals* and steered with handlebars attached to the front wheel._

Human powered defines mountain biking and corrupting the word cycling with motors will surely induce a cancerous spread. 20 years from now youngsters will barely recognize the old "p-bike" much like some of the newcomers now have never seen a v-brake.

You heard it here first.

And by the way, mtbr's new quotes suck.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> And by the way, mtbr's new quotes suck.


They do suck. Where's the last set of vampire fangs? :madman:

I see how it's gonna be...... change it about and make us look like lunatics. :nono:


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## manitou2200 (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks JBW!

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

RamblerBill said:


> If you are looking for opinions I am not an e-bike fan. Perhaps I don't know enough about them yet but I ride a bike to stay fit and be competitive (in so much as a middle aged man can compete). The e-bike circumvents both objectives. Less need to put human effort in (less of a workout for a given ride) and makes comparison to your partners pointless (comes down to who has the best battery, motor etc...). Sure there is a place for them for commuting and such but the MTB trails should be non-motorized. If e-bikes are approved for MTB use it will become a slippery slope for other sorts of motorized vehicles to find their way in.


I wonder why some of us think that e-bikes are the Devil? Is it our own insecurity's about our accomplishments. I mean I can remember the first time I did that climb without stopping. If a e-bike passes me on the same climb will it effect my ego? Hell yes.
If two mountain bikers are riding together is it a race? What if you have two e-bikers?
I understand e-bikes and the technology. I also understand that as North Americans that it is impossible for us to buy slow, stock e-bikes. In the very near future a 3000w e-bike will be on the trails near you. What you as a individual does about it will dictate how acceptable it is?
We are now telling half truth's on both sides. One side thinks all trails will get shut down, and the other is saying that a e-bike is a bicycle. Most media is embracing e-bikes because of one thing, the advertising dollar.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

rlee said:


> One side thinks all trails will get shut down


Who said that all trails will get shut down?


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## RamblerBill (Nov 29, 2015)

rlee said:


> I wonder why some of us think that e-bikes are the Devil? Is it our own insecurity's about our accomplishments. I mean I can remember the first time I did that climb without stopping. If a e-bike passes me on the same climb will it effect my ego? Hell yes.
> If two mountain bikers are riding together is it a race? What if you have two e-bikers?
> I understand e-bikes and the technology. I also understand that as North Americans that it is impossible for us to buy slow, stock e-bikes. In the very near future a 3000w e-bike will be on the trails near you. What you as a individual does about it will dictate how acceptable it is?
> We are now telling half truth's on both sides. One side thinks all trails will get shut down, and the other is saying that a e-bike is a bicycle. Most media is embracing e-bikes because of one thing, the advertising dollar.


Agreed


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Here in Switzerland there are aleady signs asking ebikes to slow down, well actually it asks them "not to ride on the limit"

I just cant wrap my head around why seemingly fit young people need ebikes, and l see it a lot here, is it just laziness?


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> A fair assessment, I did kind of drop the ball on this one. I suppose I just felt so much better after letting y'all know how lame I thought you were I sort of lost interest. Perhaps I should edit it and change the name to *"This thread? it sucks"* Anyway thanks for reminding me and I'll see what I can do about upping my game a bit.
> 
> I guess my biggest contention is mtbr propagating the "e-haters" myth via (intentionally?) misinterpreting posts suggesting that e-mountain bikes aren't the same thing as a mountain bike as hate or vitriol. The fact that electric bikes are not bicycles should seem obvious but inexplicably debates continue to drone on about what is or isn't a motor, or exactly how many watts is enough, or too much. If one rationally analyzed the "anti" posts here they would realize that the majority hate electric bikes no more than they hate cars, street signs, trees, dogs, rocks, etc.
> 
> ...


 I can see your points! Market share controls all we do from fuel to clothes, he who has the biggest budget to advertise and push for their cause will win.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

tiretracks said:


> And now you've been added to the spelling list. May have made the top of it too.


 On man do I get back a make dem wrog wurds right?

Nice catch!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

No idea where the idea of hostility (maybe I'm not cool enough for a word like vitriol, lol.) came about with all this debate. Sure, people are passionate. That's a good thing. And this is the internet, so there are bound to be misunderstandings.

As far as my personal feeling about these new contraptions - we, as a community of outdoor enthusiasts like to encourage innovation and adventure. I do feel we have a moral obligation to each other and to the society we live in to take a few baby steps to avoid making past mistakes. Trail access, environmental protection and safety simply must be considered. I think most of the more sober-minded among us understand this. When you get down to it, an e-bike has a motor. It's not bad because of it, but as J.B so eloquently pointed out, it's not a human powered machine either. It's something different, and that difference must be taken into consideration.


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## ryguy79 (Apr 12, 2007)

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to J.B. Weld again.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

MTBR is awesome (props and more rep overserve to J.B. Weld). I am personally not a fan of ebikes in general.

I haven't gone snarky/negative about them because for others, it might be the thing that gets them outside doing something. On the bright side: if this new breed of cyclists handle themselves better than bikeshare Krazy Ivan's, then it will be a win/win :thumbsup:

THIS is what...


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## mattnmtns (Sep 16, 2010)

ebikes are for poseurs without enough balls to either ride a real mountain bike or a real dirt motorcycle.


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## daven007 (Feb 18, 2008)

mattnmtns said:


> ebikes are for poseurs without enough balls to either ride a real mountain bike or a real dirt motorcycle.


Yep. Thoughtful eBike commentary.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

mattnmtns said:


> ebikes are for poseurs without enough balls to either ride a real mountain bike or a real dirt motorcycle.


 Been riding dirt bikes probably longer then you've been alive, been riding bikes also probably longer then you've been alive, and a good ebike is a great mix of the two and funner then either of them. You can't wrap your head around that probably, but it's true, simple as that, they are more fun then a regular bike. Sorry about that.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

mattnmtns said:


> ebikes are for poseurs without enough balls to either ride a real mountain bike or a real dirt motorcycle.


Your compassion is overwhelming. Might be instructive for you to accost a physically challenged U S Marine and tell him what a wimp he is for resorting to an e-bike.


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