# Anyone have a fat ebike?



## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

If so, what brand, and how do you like it? I'm specially interested in the Norco Bigfoot ebike.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Radium said:


> If so, what brand, and how do you like it? I'm specially interested in the Norco Bigfoot ebike.


If you can ride a small frame, this is the best deal you are going to find: https://www.motostrano.com/Felt-Lebowsk-e-Electric-Bike-p/lebowsk.htm

I don't have a fat ebike, but I've ridden fat bikes, and while you would think a suspension fork was overkill, it isn't. It helps mitigate the bouncing effect you get with super fat, low pressure tires.

I've found that the conditions in which a fat bike is effective are so narrow that it is not worth adding one to my collection. I live in CO, and the deep powder is not the place a fat bike works well. Also, we tend to get a lot of crust on top of deep sugar snow, and that is pretty impossible to ride in, even with a fat bike.

The trails need to be groomed, or the snow needs to be packed solid to make a fat bike fun. If you have access to that, go for it. Or, if you ride a lot of sand.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I ride a lot of sand on my drop bar bike with 40c's









One thing for sure if you are riding a lot of soft surface with any wheel sized eBike you better have lot's of battery on board because the resistance eats wh's. As mentioned using packed trails is best for winter riding but you can ride the with much narrower tires also. I used to ride 2.2's with non power assist on snowmobile tracks all the time when I lived in winter.

Plus riding eBikes in the winter months means cold batteries which don't perform as well as when they are warm.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Haibike Full FatSix......with over 6200 miles on the odometer and counting. What would you like to know?


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Mike, that is quite a brutal-looking ride! Will it cruise on pavement at 20 mph ? And if so, for how long? I'm a pretty strong peddler, and I could contribute to quite a bit of the task. 
I can't imagine having my feet on pedals and NOT pedaling!
Most of my rides have a degree of "urban" in them, like about 5 miles+, before I hit the trails. 

I'm kinda toying with the fat bike possibility as I'm getting closer to 70, and I'm also gravitating towards a "one bike" lifestyle.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

I guess I'm really looking at an e-fat bike with some suspension as a replacement for four other bikes' solution.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Thanks gor posting this...
...following!

Yes. very interested in the Fat E stuff!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Hi Radium. You can find my ride reports with this bike over on the "Fatbiking & Health" thread in the fat bikes forum; a solid near 2 years of ride reports, photos, thoughts on my rides and this bike. 

My previous ride before the Full FatSix was a Specialized Fatboy. The Yamaha powered Haibike has been so much fun for me that the Fatboy pretty much collects dust in the garage.....

This fatbike is powered by the Yamaha PW drive system, with a 400wh Yamaha battery. 4.0 inch wide Schwalbe Jumbo Jims (set up tubeless), Rock Shox front and rear shocks. Magura MT5 brakes. Front Old Man Mountain rack to accept a pair of Ortlieb bags if I am going extra long distance. I'll be in the process of fitting a rear rack, with the goal of making this a fatbike with touring capabilities.

You must pedal this bike in order for the electric assistance to add power appropriate to whatever power setting you go to; High power, Standard Power, Eco, Eco+ or no assist if you wish. High and Standard power gives you the greatest assist. Eco is a notch below standard in power delivery, but it begins to feel much as if you are pedaling a 56 pound fatbike. Eco+ is pretty much no different than no assist.

This bike again, must be pedaled to engage the drive system. Known as a Class 1 ebike....no throttle.

I pedal my bike anywhere, from around town on asphalt road surfaces to the canal towpaths nearby and even on the sugar sand roads within the NJ Pine Barrens. On my local run on asphalt, a 20 miler, I can average close to 20 (motor assist cut-out speed is 20) for a long stretch; but I'm not an especially powerful rider, but dogged and determined! Tire pressures are key. On asphalt, I'll air up to about 27 psi. In that sugar sand Pine Barrens stuff, I'll air down to 6 psi/7psi.

No skinny tired mtb will get through that sugar sand, but a fatty will. And with our roadways a frost heaved, pot holed, ill maintained mess, the fat bike makes great sense to me. I'm pretty much a water level rider as there aren't mountains where I live. But there are steep enough grades and the fatty works just fine using the proper front and rear gear ratio. 

Not one lick of trouble with the Yamaha drive system or battery. None. I can tell you with the miles under my belt, this bike can and will certainly serve as a one-bike jack of all trades for you.

Haibike has the dual suspended Yamaha e-drive Full FatSix and the Bosch powered front suspended, hard tail FatSix. Bulls has a dual suspended Bosch powered fat bike. Specialized has a Brose powered fatty. I believe there are others out there on the market but they don't come to mind at this time. I would avoid the cheaper hub-drive fat bikes. 

Check out the site called Electric Bike Review to see the fat tired ebikes the site owner has tested. He is a fair and objective reviewer. Hope this has been of some help. Upfront, these higher end bikes are expensive; but there are bargains to be had by the bigger sellers online as retailers want to get rid of older inventory to make way for the newer models. That is how I was able to get my bike at a very, very deep discount in spring, 2017.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

That is all good news, Mike Thanks for the detail. Somebody do me a favor and check out the Norco e-fat bike, the Bigfoot vlt.

Link: https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/e-mountain/bigfoot-vlt/

I might have an inside line on one of these babies. I been a mtb'er for close to 30 years now, so I am fortunate in that you make a lotta connections over that kinda timespan.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

The Norcos both look awesome. I would go with the suspension fork if you plan on riding it on any rough trails at all. Those have the Shimano motor system which is awesome. The top model is very well spec'ed, I love that they put a dropper post and the four piston brakes with big rotors on there. 

They only negative I see is the permanently mounted battery in the frame. A question I would have is whether that is a custom battery made by Norco or a standard Shimano battery. The reason it matters is that ebike batteries wear out, depending on the manufacturer they will claim 500-1000 battery cycles. If that is a custom Norco battery, I would be worried ten years from now whether the batteries will be available. If it is a Shimano part number you would be more likely to find one ten years from now. The other downside might depend on where you keep the bike. I keep mine in an unheated garage, so I remove my batteries and bring them inside to charge and stay warm. If you have a warm place to keep the bike, with an outlet nearby, it is not as big a deal. Also, having a removable battery is a theft deterrent. Also, when I travel, I can leave the bike locked in my vehicle and bring the battery inside to charge. Finally, a removable battery allows you to carry an extra for long rides, or if you are camping away from an outlet. If none of those factors matter, then the internal battery is not an issue.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

I hadn't thought about the battery issue, thanks for pointing that out.

EDIT: The battery has to go to yer Norco dealer to be removed. A lot of E-bikers may not know much about Norco, but they are one of the leading mob companies, and I doubt they are going anywhere. Norco's are very popular on the trail. So, maybe the battery issue won't be a 'terminal' one.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

The battery can only be removed by an authorized Norco dealer, according to the website. 

I remove my battery to charge inside after every ride. In these winter months and after each ride, I bring the battery inside but before hooking up the charger, I let the battery temperature equalize to room temperature. Lithium Ion batterys don't take well long term to being charged when the cells are below freezing. For that matter, I will also bring in the Yamaha LCD display as well. Over on Electric Bike Review, I've seen enough videos by the reviewer (Court) that the Bosch Power Tube set up as well as the Stromer ebike battery in-line set up, is something easily done by the bike owner. Not sure why Norco thinks this can only be handled by the bike shop. 

Definitely like the front shock. There is a suspension seat post out there called Body Float that has gotten very good reviews by it's owners. I see more value in that than I do a dropper post since you said alot of your miles will be on the road miles as well as off-road.

I put a Cane Creet LT Thudbuster on my Fatboy to take the road shock down a notch or two. One day I'd like to try the Body Float in place of the ThudBuster, which has it's limitations in controlling road shock and vibes. 

I'm liking the wider fat tires and I really like the idea of a 630 wh battery for real mileage potential.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Radium said:


> I hadn't thought about the battery issue, thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> EDIT: The battery has to go to yer Norco dealer to be removed. A lot of E-bikers may not know much about Norco, but they are one of the leading mob companies, and I doubt they are going anywhere. Norco's are very popular on the trail. So, maybe the battery issue won't be a 'terminal' one.


I know Norco is huge in Canada, I wasn't worried about the company when I made my comment, but if that is a custom Norco battery and they quit making that model in a year or two, how many batteries will they have 10 years from now, and how old will they be? Batteries lose effectiveness just sitting on a shelf over a number of years, especially if they are over or under charged. For long term storage most ebike battery manufacturers recommend the battery remain around 60% charged. Unfortunately, none of the "big four" (Shimano, Brose, Bosch, Yamaha) offer a "float" function on their chargers that keeps them around 60%, the chargers are designed to fully charge the battery. You can leave the battery on the charger and it won't overcharge, but for long term storage you don't want the battery to be at 100%. It is kind of a pain.


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## liv2ryde (Jun 19, 2013)

I have built my own efat bike using a bafang bbshd 
middrive on my framed minnesota. Less expensive, and more powerful.


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## Bizman (Oct 11, 2010)

liv2ryde said:


> I have built my own efat bike using a bafang bbshd
> middrive on my framed minnesota. Less expensive, and more powerful.


I can ditto the comments about using a Bafang BBSHD mid drive as I put one on my Jones + and my wife's Surly ECR. They both work really GOOD and I am sure you won't have problems getting a battery in 10 years. AND you could most likely move it to another bike down the road if so desire!


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Interesting. You guys got any pics of your efats?


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## FatTurtle (Apr 24, 2018)

Here's mine. Spesh Fatboy with BBSHD, Bluto fork, tubeless.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

Looks like you could carry a lotta battery in that frame bag.You must have aa pretty good range, I'd guess?


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## FatTurtle (Apr 24, 2018)

I have about 500 miles on three cycles on the battery riding flats, steep grades, dirt, asphalt. Your mileage may vary. It's a huge battery.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Felt Lebowske








Maxx Huraxdax EL








The Bigfoot VLT 1 looks really good. The battery size is a plus but not being removable is a bit annoying.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Just an FYI for you fat bike fans of another conversions option:

https://www.gngebike.com/gng-2019-3000w

Although it is advertised as 3000w that is just a function of the battery voltage and controller amperage at it's maximum. You could easily run this kit with a 52v battery @ 15A and have plenty of grunt.

The BBSHD are basically the same scenario but have internal controllers that are programmable. The big problem is that with Fat Bikes to begin with and the kit systems in general your Q factor becomes the Q++ factor.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

Radium said:


> Interesting. You guys got any pics of your efats?


 I converted a Motobecanne Sturgis Bullet 3 years ago, with a 17 AH 52 volt Panasonic battery and a BBSHD. It worked great and I had a lot of fun on it. The only thing was my other ride I carry in my small plane, is a Montague, also with a BBSHD conversion, but also with a Rohloff hub. That hub spoiled me, while the minor inevitable issues with the fatties derailleur system grew more frustrating, as compared to the precise and reliable Rohloff shifting. Not to mention the much wider gearing spread, all with a perfectly straight chain line. So, this winter I bought a Surly Wednesday bare frame, and then stripped down the Bullet for it's seat/seat post, tires and wheel, Bluto fork, handlebars and stem, battery and motor, just about everything! I figured this saved me more money and was less hassle then trying to sell the Bullet at a decent price, and then buy all new components.

So, as of 3 or 4 days ago, I now have a hot rodded (from Luna, 1300 watts I'm told, just a programming minor change ) BBSHD/Rohloff hub fat bike. My rides so far are restricted by the big thaw happening here, but I have managed to put 6 miles on it, enough to know it is working as it should. No top speed info yet (way too muddy) but the low end seems about right, LOW. Best guess on the top end is 30+-.






I built this for reliability first, and as a go anywhere ride, not so much for groomed bike paths, where it's overkill. Heavy as hell, with the steel Surly frame and rear rack, Thudbuster seat, and a big cushy seat, and the big (non removable, works for me) battery, 69 pounds. But I also have room in the triangle for an additional 6 AH battery, plus for the really epic rides, I can also carry one or both of my 11.5 AH batteries, so up to a total of 46 AH. With the Bullet, 17 AH was plenty for a good several hour ride with lots of vert, where my buddies with their Haibikes would be about done with their much smaller batteries. Miles per watts, seems to be very similar to the factory bikes, I have twice the battery, so twice the range, no surprise.


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

RSD Mayor V4 with Vee Tire Snowshoe 2XL's.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

portnuefpeddler said:


> I converted a Motobecanne Sturgis Bullet 3 years ago, with a 17 AH 52 volt Panasonic battery and a BBSHD. It worked great and I had a lot of fun on it. The only thing was my other ride I carry in my small plane, is a Montague, also with a BBSHD conversion, but also with a Rohloff hub. That hub spoiled me, while the minor inevitable issues with the fatties derailleur system grew more frustrating, as compared to the precise and reliable Rohloff shifting. Not to mention the much wider gearing spread, all with a perfectly straight chain line. So, this winter I bought a Surly Wednesday bare frame, and then stripped down the Bullet for it's seat/seat post, tires and wheel, Bluto fork, handlebars and stem, battery and motor, just about everything! I figured this saved me more money and was less hassle then trying to sell the Bullet at a decent price, and then buy all new components.
> 
> So, as of 3 or 4 days ago, I now have a hot rodded (from Luna, 1300 watts I'm told, just a programming minor change ) BBSHD/Rohloff hub fat bike. My rides so far are restricted by the big thaw happening here, but I have managed to put 6 miles on it, enough to know it is working as it should. No top speed info yet (way too muddy) but the low end seems about right, LOW. Best guess on the top end is 30+-.
> View attachment 1239915
> I built this for reliability first, and as a go anywhere ride, not so much for groomed bike paths, where it's overkill. Heavy as hell, with the steel Surly frame and rear rack, Thudbuster seat, and a big cushy seat, and the big (non removable, works for me) battery, 69 pounds. But I also have room in the triangle for an additional 6 AH battery, plus for the really epic rides, I can also carry one or both of my 11.5 AH batteries, so up to a total of 46 AH. With the Bullet, 17 AH was plenty for a good several hour ride with lots of vert, where my buddies with their Haibikes would be about done with their much smaller batteries. Miles per watts, seems to be very similar to the factory bikes, I have twice the battery, so twice the range, no surprise.


Anything with a Rohloff in my book demands instant respect. A fatty equipped Rohloff gets double that!

Impressive bike! I could see this thing set up for long distance touring with front and rear racks and maybe a trailer to boot; especially with that kind of battery capacity.

When or if the weather clears as it's rumored to do sometime in spring, I'd like to know what kind of long distance miles you are nailing down with your bike; as too a system reliability report or two. Very nice rig, indeed!


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

Thanks! I have a real nice pannier setup for it also, but I need to widen them to fit that wide Surly rack to best advantage. I bought them a couple years ago, but never had a rear rack with the standoffs to be able to use them. They will give me an insane amount of gear room.

Our 3'+ deep snow here(and much deeper in the drifts) long past being rideable due to it's depth, has now, thanks to some freeze/thaw cycles, become rideable! It's setup almost like a gravel road, and I'm able to ride places on the mountain I normally can't, as all the brush etc. is covered. I want to work this bike hard, and am, in this test phase,while still very close to home, and so far zero issues.

This pic is 800' vert above my place (I live on a mountainside, that goes up to above 9K), and the entire area is 3-4' deep, but as long as I hit it early, before 2 in the afternoon anyway, it's all great riding! I've ridden snow often, but not deep snow that's hard, and it is unexpected fun, especially the downhill aspect, going through the trees etc.


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## BikesOnSnow (Jan 23, 2004)

*E fat bike + Fat Bike Ski = Awesome!*

Good times! I had been debating getting a Paradox Kinetics kit for a RSD Mayor, but saw JVG1967's new setup and decided to try the BBSHD. I went for the 1300w Hot Rod tune with a Wolf 52v battery. I built it up this week and got out for a couple rides. Super fun and way more powerful than the other systems I've tried (Bionx and Surface 604 Boar).

Here's the bike set up with my Fat Bike Ski kit and a photo of me riding in some ideal conditions! 6" of powder on top of a supportive base. It's a perfect match with my ski and a 2XL tire. I'm looking to set up some rental operations based on these bikes. It's just so damn fun!


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

BikesOnSnow said:


> Good times! I had been debating getting a Paradox Kinetics kit for a RSD Mayor, but saw JVG1967's new setup and decided to try the BBSHD. I went for the 1300w Hot Rod tune with a Wolf 52v battery. I built it up this week and got out for a couple rides. Super fun and way more powerful than the other systems I've tried (Bionx and Surface 604 Boar).
> 
> Here's the bike set up with my Fat Bike Ski kit and a photo of me riding in some ideal conditions! 6" of powder on top of a supportive base. It's a perfect match with my ski and a 2XL tire. I'm looking to set up some rental operations based on these bikes. It's just so damn fun!
> 
> ...


Now that looks like a **** load of fun! The V3 Mayor frames are on sale, just finished another build and bought a third V3 frame for a future build. Love that the Luna Wolf Pack fits perfectly in the frame, my shark battery was too large and I had to use a frame bag to hold it. I'm going to have to try the ski attachment next year if and when we get some decent snow.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I got my panniers widened out to fit the Surly rack, between them and the top bag I can haul a lot. These panniers fold out as you can see, and end up being backpack huge. The rack holds them out from the wheel perfectly. I'm not planning to ride with them full time, only on epic rides. The top bag is full time.

I had some unused space behind the seat post, so built a light rack and strap to hold my Luna 52 volt air compressor, it will be carried full time, it draws very little power and works great.

40 miles on the Wednesday/BBSHD/Rohloff combo is all so far, but it's working great, no issues at all. Lots of local snow riding still, first thing, then later I snowboard over my bike tracks coming down from the local ski area, pretty fun.


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## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

Bigwheel said:


> Just an FYI for you fat bike fans of another conversions option:
> 
> https://www.gngebike.com/gng-2019-3000w
> 
> ...


THey are MUCH louder than the BBSHD. As for Q, I don't pedal that much. I 
have a motor!


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

I just got this for my wife......

ATOM BIG BUD PRO The ATOM BIG BUD Pro hits every seasonal need with a balanced ride, traditional mountain bike spec yet fully rack compatible for a serious backcountry adventure.
Fork • Rock Shox Bluto 100mm of travelMotor • Brose 250WDerailleur • Shimano Deore 1x10Brakes • Tektro Auriga E-Comp with 203/180mm rotorsTires • Kenda Chaoyang 26 x 4Battery • 600Wh


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

Just another opinion with some options....

I have built several ebikes using mid drives and rear hub motors and one of my favorites is my Mongoose Hitch fat tire bike with a BBSHD motor and 14s6p battery. You can get a brand new Hitch/Dolomite/Malus (very similar bikes) for less than $300 to get started.

My recommendation is the Bafang BBSHD for a motor because it can handle more power without overheating than a geared hub motor like a MAC and is a lot lighter than a hub motor like the Crystalyte, Cromotor, QS, etc.

I went with a suspension fork and mounted a 27.5x2.8 Maxxis DHF tire on a 27.5 wheel I bought from Mongoose. IMO it steers a lot better with the smaller tire and the suspension fork keeps the ride nice.

If you are going to ride mainly off road, a 30T "Mighty Mini" from Luna Cycles works good for the Chainring. I run a 30T front and a 24T rear when riding tight single track...gives me roughly an 18 mph top speed with enough torque to climb hills. 

My steel frame has held up to a lot of abuse, BBSHD has plenty torque, and the 14s6p battery has enough capacity to last longer than me on most days .


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## TheBikeStore (Aug 27, 2017)

liv2ryde said:


> I have built my own efat bike using a bafang bbshd
> middrive on my framed minnesota. Less expensive, and more powerful.


The bbshd motor is not an item that is permitted to be discussed on this forum per the rules posted.

Having said that, I sell both the KHS Fat Tire eBike for $3000 (price as of 8/20/19) and also the Bafang BBS02 with converted spindles to work on a fat bike with 750 watts for $2200. The batteries for the bafang can be replaced for less than $300 (14ah x 48v).

The KHS factory bike is really nice, however it is true that the bbs02 offers more than twice the power of a factory made bike, but also gets about half the range. So if distance is your thing, a factory made bike will not eat the watts up like a conversion kit will.

I would stay away from anything more powerful than 750w, the reason being that the crank spins too fast for the bike to feel like a real bike and they become motorized scooters with fat tires.

KHS Endure 1000 Specs

As for the suspension, I have over 2000 miles on a fat bike, 600 with a suspension fork (it has now been removed from the bike). The only time a suspension fork is needed is if you have more than 10PSI in your tires and they feel like basketballs, then the suspension fork will take out the bounce. I run 8 in the rear and 7 in the front and unless I am really charging downhill trails, the tires act like suspension and the fancy air fork is not needed in my opinion.

I have sold about 8 conversion kits on fat bikes and the customers all love them! We do live on a volcano and our "dirt" is as loose as it comes!


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## TheBikeStore (Aug 27, 2017)

My apologies to any BBSHD posters above. I see this is an old thread and the under 750w posting guidelines were not in place when the posts were made.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Being in Quebec, Canada i demoed for 2 hrs their Etrailbike 2 months ago. I realy enjoyed the play factor and the suspension. The 8,000$ canadian is a bit much in my opinion reading about lots of Shimano issues. I would not be happy waiting for my third motor. I just read in 2020 the wheels will go to 29. An other guy also liked the play side.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Both Bulls and Haibike make fat tire full suspension bikes. Bulls had theirs at Outerbike last weekend, but I didn't get a chance to ride it.


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## cozz (Nov 26, 2009)

honkinunit said:


> Both Bulls and Haibike make fat tire full suspension bikes. Bulls had theirs at Outerbike last weekend, but I didn't get a chance to ride it.


are bulls doing a fatty bike, can't see it on their website - a Full SUS ? with which motor ?


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

Just upgraded my RSD Mayor with a new CYC X1 Pro motor. Running a single speed setup with a 30T front and 15T rear ring. Battery is a 52V 10ah battery from Luna Cycles. Only had a quick test ride on the street and this thing rips! Need to do a little more tuning before it’s ready for prime time.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

TheBikeStore said:


> The bbshd motor is not an item that is permitted to be discussed on this forum per the rules posted.
> 
> Having said that, I sell both the KHS Fat Tire eBike for $3000 (price as of 8/20/19) and also the Bafang BBS02 with converted spindles to work on a fat bike with 750 watts for $2200. The batteries for the bafang can be replaced for less than $300 (14ah x 48v).
> 
> ...


I just love bike stores that were/are houses.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

I have the Bulls Monster E FS:









It gets its most use as a way for my son and wife to hang on longer rides with me. I also have used it to rehab during a few injuries. It has the Bosch CX motor and has a **** ton of power. Mileage of course depends on the style of riding (vert +/- and speed).

For tough steep singletrack rides, I can go about 30 miles / 5K' before the battery dies.

Overall it is a great bike. I haven't regretted buying it!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I have a department store fat bike with the high wattage Cyclone. Also been using a 9C clone before that on the same bike. Fat bikes are only good for what they are designed for, snow, mud, and sand. Sure you can ride it in the summer, and it being an ebike it doesnt matter, but I've seen plenty a fatties on manual sweat power in the middle of summer, I guess they got conned.



Radium said:


> If so, what brand, and how do you like it? I'm specially interested in the Norco Bigfoot ebike.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

matt4x4 said:


> Fat bikes are only good for what they are designed for, snow, mud, and sand. Sure you can ride it in the summer, and it being an ebike it doesnt matter, but I've seen plenty a fatties on manual sweat power in the middle of summer, I guess they got conned.


Thats as dumb as me generalising you are lazy because you ride an ebike......


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Rode the fat e-bike today. Pretty awesome tool while rehabbing this ...


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

The fat e-bike and I in healthier / more fun times


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

matt4x4 said:


> I have a department store fat bike with the high wattage Cyclone. Also been using a 9C clone before that on the same bike. Fat bikes are only good for what they are designed for, snow, mud, and sand. Sure you can ride it in the summer, and it being an ebike it doesnt matter, but I've seen plenty a fatties on manual sweat power in the middle of summer, I guess they got conned.


Last summer a guy next door had a Harley. A real nice one with some chrome and a very nice custom paint job done by himself. He was telling me he liked parking downtown next to a terrace, eat or drink close to it and seing people turning heads. Maybe some year round user like being looked at. Maybe they can only afford one bike. Who cares what they do is legal. If they smile they are my kind of people.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

roughster said:


> Rode the fat e-bike today. Pretty awesome tool while rehabbing this ...
> 
> View attachment 1286403


Ouch that looks like it hurt. Looks like a Broken collarbone? Thank goodness you're on the Recovery side!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

mtbbiker said:


> Ouch that looks like it hurt. Looks like a Broken collarbone? Thank goodness you're on the Recovery side!


Yep shattered collarbone. The result:









Another two weeks for the bone to totally heal before I can start riding real trails. Regardless, it was awesome feeling dirt under the tires!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

roughster said:


> Yep shattered collarbone. The result:
> 
> View attachment 1286525
> 
> ...


That is the second Xray i see that looks like a tatoo. 
The funny docs put a chain in if u brake it riding.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I ride my Surly Wednesday year round, and could care less what others think, though I do admit to being a bit surprised to almost not ever seeing anyone else on a fattie. Does that make me think I'm out of the loop, don't know what's going on, sort of, but I DON"T CARE. I have too much fun on it, and here's the weird thing: any riders of the female persuasion, for some reason love it, I mean 100% favorable response. I never get any active hostility from dudes, just puzzlement and surprise when they see it. I DON"T CARE. From what I can gather, it'd be a different deal if it wasn't a 750 watt e bike, for sure it's a pig, but pigs can be fun too.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

A sighting of the e-fat in the wild


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Is that ALL IT IS, 750W ? Wow! 
As for pigs, well yeah pigs need lovin' too!
Too each their own, everyone has their likes and dislikes.



portnuefpeddler said:


> I ride my Surly Wednesday year round, and could From what I can gather, it'd be a different deal if it wasn't a 750 watt e bike, for sure it's a pig, but pigs can be fun too.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Im looking for a full suspension fat e-bike. What are the options?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

It all depends on what you want. Do you want to build your own ebike by buying parts and installing them on a fat full suspension, or do you want to buy one.

You could look into the Chinese usual suspects on Aliexpress/Alibaba/Ebay or you could go to your local store. I wouldnt trust the usual suspects on A/A/Ebay because who knows how the battery pack was built. They go through a lot of effort to make the bike look sleek but to save money they will skimp on the battery.

What size of tire are you going for?
What size of frame?
Do you want mid drive or hub motor?

There are a lot of parameters to consider, even your local juristiction laws on wattage. Every country is different!



kntr said:


> Im looking for a full suspension fat e-bike.  What are the options?


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

I am also looking for a Full Suspension Fat Bike. Really I just want to be able to fit a 4.00" rear tire in the frame so any full suspension bike that will allow the tire to fit is OK. Just that 4.00" usually means a "Fat" bike .

NOT carbon, 27.5 rims would be nice but 26" are OK. I don't want it to come with a battery since I plan to build the bike using a mid-drive and install my own battery.

Are there any options besides Alibaba?


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Way more and Better options available for someone like yourself Bullfrog123.
The BBHD is a solid mid drive, then there is the Cyclone mid drives.
You have to be careful in the selection of your fat bike, as some bike frames wont accept a mid drive. Also, pay attention to the bottom bracket width. My fat bike had 100mm bb, 125mm front fork width, not 135mm which throws a kink in things a little bit for replacement parts. The rear is normally 170mm, but some are different, maybe 160.

A good solution is to buy a used fat bike that is a brand name like Trek, Giant, Norco or what have you. The department store fat bikes are not worth buying if you want to trully ride a bike because when you buy one of those bicycle shaped objects, you have to go through the entire bike and make sure everything is proper. Not worth the savings when you can buy a used bike for a little more monies. 

A step up from department store bicycles is a place called BikesDirect.com, they are American based, and only ship inside the USA. Sure you can use a mail forwarder service, but who knows what the price will be.

Go to Pinkbike.com and look for fat bikes in your area.
Choose the aforementioned mid drives to suit the legalities in your area.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I want a brand name, already built, full suspension fat bike that will take a 4.0. Something with 100-150 travel and 150mm front hub and 177mm rear hub but 197mm would be ok. 

I want something like a Foes Mutz or Bucksaw but ebike.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

kntr...a couple options I like if I was going to buy a bike already assembled:

A. BULLS Monster E FS Electric Fat Tire Bike
https://www.oregon-ebikes.com/bulls-monster-e-fs-electric-fat-tire-bike.html

B. HPC Revolution AT...it would be my choice if I hit the lottery.
https://hpcbikes.com/collections/electric-bikes/products/revolution-at

I am probably going to just continue to improve my Mongoose Hitch (hardtail) I bought at Walmart. Already has a BBSHD, 14s6p 52v battery, Maxxis FBR 26x4.00 rear tire, Maxxis DHF 27.5x2.8" front tire, Suntour Raidon air fork, 30 tooth Mighty Mini front sprocket and a 22T White Industries (Green) Trials freewheel with 72 POE. Also running Shimano SLX BR-M7000 brakes with a 180 front/203 rear rotors. I run 9 psi in the rear tire and that gives me "some" suspension...2.81" (71mm). 2.81" is from the tire not compressed at all to where it bottoms on the rim. 17 psi in the front tire. Less than $2,000 USD total invested in the bike at this point but a LOT of trial and error to get where I am today.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

kntr said:


> I want a brand name, already built, full suspension fat bike that will take a 4.0. Something with 100-150 travel and 150mm front hub and 177mm rear hub but 197mm would be ok.
> 
> I want something like a Foes Mutz or Bucksaw but ebike.


Check Haibike


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

Haibike has some good options and I forgot to mention Luna Cycles as well.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

My Surly Wednesday was an easy conversion to the BBSHD, and the 17 AH battery easily fits inside the triangle.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I was hoping a bigger brand would make a full suspension fat ebike.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

A full suspension fat bike is not common. I too would look into buying one if the price was reasonable. Nut sack massages are not pleasant!


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## Fat&SkinnyCO (Nov 23, 2014)

I just got this for my wife......

*ATOM BIG BUD PRO*

The ATOM BIG BUD Pro hits every seasonal need with a balanced ride, traditional mountain bike spec yet fully rack compatible for a serious backcountry adventure.
Fork • Rock Shox Bluto 100mm of travelMotor • Brose 250WDerailleur • Shimano Deore 1x10Brakes • Tektro Auriga E-Comp with 203/180mm rotorsTires • Kenda Chaoyang 26 x 4Battery • 600Wh​

​Hi Tom Tom,

I'm looking for a fat ebike for winter and I read that you purchased this bike for your wife. I have some questions for you if and when you have a moment.

Can you tell me about the overall motor and battery performance in general and as compared to other emtb motors that you've had experience with?

I've ridden many miles, on trails, on the new Specialized Turbo Levo with the Brose Mag S motor and the new Cannondale Habit with the new Bosch CX motor. I've also done a lot of research emtb's. I have also been riding fat in the winter for the past six years. I only mention this as a frame of reference so you know that I have some knowledge on the subject of emtb's and riding fat in the snow.

Thank you!


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## cozz (Nov 26, 2009)

check out the MAXX D full sus fat bike from germany


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

kntr said:


> I was hoping a bigger brand would make a full suspension fat ebike.


I haven't ridden one yet, but Lenz makes a spin off of their Fatillac, called the FatElec.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

2020 Trek Farley EX Frameset...$3,299.99.

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...ex/farley-ex-frameset/p/24999/?colorCode=grey

If I hit the lottery I am buying one .

Montana Carbon Full Suspension Fat Bike 26" $2,899: https://www.framedbikes.com/collect...0078&utm_source=impact&variant=30071771824179


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Bullfrog123 said:


> 2020 Trek Farley EX Frameset...$3,299.99.
> 
> https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...ex/farley-ex-frameset/p/24999/?colorCode=grey
> 
> If I hit the lottery I am buying one .


That's cool and all but we are talking about fat E-bikes.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

Add a Bafang BBSHD and a 14s (52v battery)...you'll have more power than anything you can buy on the market.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I haven't ridden one yet, but Lenz makes a spin off of their Fatillac, called the FatElec.


Its not on their website. Do you have a link?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

kntr said:


> Its not on their website. Do you have a link?


Nope. I've never seen it on the site either. Send them an email or ping them via ToolBook.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

kntr...are you looking for a class 1, 2, 3, or does it matter?

Electric Bike Review says the Bulls Monster is the best full suspension fat bike:

https://electricbikereview.com/bulls/2017-monster-e-fs/

I personally enjoy the class 2 "throttle" bike I built using a BBSHD...but everybody is different so it might not be what you are after.

For those not familiar with the "classes":

Class 1: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and have a maximum assisted speed of 20 mph.

Class 2: eBikes that also have a maximum speed of 20 mph, but are throttle-assisted.

Class 3: eBikes that are pedal-assist only, with no throttle, and a maximum assisted speed of 28 mph.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

Class 4: don't tread on me


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

matt4x4 said:


> A full suspension fat bike is not common. I too would look into buying one if the price was reasonable. Nut sack massages are not pleasant!


 True! And why I have a Cloud 9 seat on a Thudbuster on my hardtail fattie. It's a Cadillac (an outdated term I know but you get the idea) ride and maybe even lighter then going full sus, though not why I went that route, more to avoid the dreaded nut sack rearrangement. But this also means I can't have a seat dropper, but since I have a beefy Surly chrome moly rear rack on the Wednesday, I just slide back and sit on it on super steep downhills. I usually have a jacket or something soft in the rack bag so it isn't too rough a ride.


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## cozz (Nov 26, 2009)

Thats a link to a 3 year old bike, Bulls arent making fat ebikes for 2020



Bullfrog123 said:


> kntr...are you looking for a class 1, 2, 3, or does it matter?
> 
> Electric Bike Review says the Bulls Monster is the best full suspension fat bike:
> 
> ...


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I want a class 1 fat ebike that is sold in the USA. Id prefer a full suspension. The Lamere is way over priced at $8000-$9000.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

What about the Bulls Monster E FS: https://www.bullsbikesusa.com/monster-e-fs.html

$5,499 and dealers all over the USA.

Here is a review on it: https://electricbikeaction.com/bike-test-bulls-monster-e-fs/

That is still pretty pricey IMO but about the only Fat Ebike

Full suspension fat bike is hard to find...and a full suspension fat ebike is even harder to find.

Good Luck


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Maybe you would be fine with a Haibike with front suspension and a suspension seatpost. In my area 2 guys are happy with their fatbike with this setup. I know 1 has back issues.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

33red said:


> Maybe you would be fine with a Haibike with front suspension and a suspension seatpost. In my area 2 guys are happy with their fatbike with this setup. I know 1 has back issues.


We ride some pretty rough trails in the winter. We snowshoe one day and ride the next.

I tried to order the Maxx Huraxadax last night. They don't ship to the USA anymore.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

We can get several feet of snow in a big storm in these parts, especially counting drifting. A snowboarder, I am still coming to grips with how much winter riding I can do. Last year I pretty much gave up my 1/4 mile trail I cut in on my 40 acres due to just too much snow. At first I tried to keep it beat down enough to ride, but it quickly got away from me. 

Then last last winter, and it was a record breaking snow winter here, I was out with the dog and gradually realized we were walking ON the snow, we had a nice hard top layer (over 3-4' of build up snow)due to the various freeze/thaw cycles/. I got the bike out and tore it up for several days until it mushed up again. Rolling mountainside, farmed in the summer, it was great fun working the fall lines, seeing how much side angle I could get before slipping out, hard to describe even to the guys I board with in the winter and ride with in the summer, but it was super fun. This year, I will be hyper alert to those conditions, I may have let some great riding conditions slip by me last year!


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

For ever-changing snow conditions, I’d say something that can run 4.5”-5” tires and a motor with true torque sensors or the ability to run minuscule power is very important. Too much assist can be your worst enemy. I have the Yamaha PW motor and sometimes eco+ (lowest setting) is the only level other than nothing that is usable in certain conditions. Anything more and you just dig a hole or wank out. Sometimes a pedal fat bike is more capable. 
Low gearing is a plus, having a natural cadence at 3-4mph is helpful on godawful ribbon wide, horrid traction snow climbs.


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

Glad I found this thread. Ive been riding my Scott Genius Eride for about 7 months and I'm loving it. My non motorized bike is collecting dust. I just picked up a fatbike for the winter (Scott Big Jon) and I love it but couldnt help wonder how fun it would be with a motor. 
Doing some research, I realized Specialized had a fat version of their Turbo Levo but looks like its either discontinued or never even made it to market. I see a bunch of options in Europe but not much here. My guess is that manufacturers are afraid to reinvest in fatbikes of any kind after the initial craze died and they were stuck with a lot of inventory a few years back. 
IMO the main drawback of riding a fatbike is the increased weight of the wheels which makes it harder to pedal. Adding a motor seems like a no brainer. 
A question for those of you with fat-Es, how does the weight of battery and motor effect tire pressure? I'd imagine especially on a hardtail, the extra weight would increase risk of smashing the rims on rock terrain. I find I have to run a bit more pressure on my eRide than on my other 29er with same tires. (I'm also going about twice as fast uphill lol)


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## flyinb501 (Feb 12, 2013)

I purchased a cheap used Framed MN 2.0 a few years back to try trail riding in the winter up here in MN. I quickly learned that it was not nearly as fun as summer riding with the slower speeds. Too much work and not enough reward, especially if the trails were not packed. Last year I stumbled upon Ebikes and learned of the conversion kits. I thought this would be perfect for my fat bike in the winter.

I ended up getting a BBSHD kit with a 52V 14A. I installed it and could not believe how well it worked. Now winter riding was fun!









I quickly learned that the rigid fork on the Framed bike was not cutting it so I decided I would upgrade.

This year I picked up a Motobecane Sturgis Bullet with the Rockshox Bluto fork. I am super impressed with the quality of this bike. I swapped the motor from my Framed on to the new bike, and went for my first ride yesterday. Absolutely awesome! The suspension fork makes a huge difference and this new bike is better in every way than the old Framed.

























The battery is major overkill for my uses. I usually ride about 1 - 1.5 hours and 10 - 12 miles. I think I use like 1/3 of the battery if that. I am usually in pedal assist 2, and sometimes switch up to PAS 3 towards the end of the ride when I am more tired. Every once in a while I will try PAS 4 or 5, which is just ridiculous. A complete blast! I've found myself laughing out loud on the trail. I think the PAS works fantastic, and on setting 1 you barely notice it's there. I've heard fine tuning the programming can make it even better so I will try that. I may try that small Pup pack battery from Luna because I think it would be enough for me and would shave quite a bit of weight.

I ride motocross and mountain bike in the summer (non Ebike). I used to have nothing fun to do in the winter, but this fat bike and ebike conversion has changed everything. I look forward to getting out every weekend as long as the trail conditions allow.


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

New player in the market, Luna Fat Babe.

https://lunacycle.com/babe/


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I emailed Norco and the Bigfoot VLT 1 will be out in April. WTF. Winter will be over. Someone at Norco dropped the ball on this one.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

kntr said:


> I emailed Norco and the Bigfoot VLT 1 will be out in April. WTF. Winter will be over. Someone at Norco dropped the ball on this one.


You have to understand. They get inline to get their frame. Frame builders are limited. We are far from local products. Most bikes are sourced internationale. Some Giant were out of stock here in Canada in december but my LBS told me a container(shipment) was expected in January. Everybody wants low price so we cannot command.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

JVG1967 said:


> New player in the market, Luna Fat Babe.
> 
> https://lunacycle.com/babe/


The paragraph about the Bluto is funny as, what a load of BS.
I have a Bluto on my Fattie, but there are way better options.
This BS alone turns me off the company, and the bike is fugly.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

cmg said:


> The paragraph about the Bluto is funny as, what a load of BS.
> I have a Bluto on my Fattie, but there are way better options.
> This BS alone turns me off the company, and the bike is fugly.


I did not read a thing. A large single front ring according to me is a street bike and a no-no for me. I like to climb in the woods and that would be no fun on snow wich is my fun fat playground.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

33red said:


> I did not read a thing. A large single front ring according to me is a street bike and a no-no for me. I like to climb in the woods and that would be no fun on snow wich is my fun fat playground.


Its got an internal gear hub.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

These are not miracle words.
It is the equivalent of what?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I guess I will wait for the new Foes Mutz Ebike.


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## BikesOnSnow (Jan 23, 2004)

JVG1967 said:


> Just upgraded my RSD Mayor with a new CYC X1 Pro motor. Running a single speed setup with a 30T front and 15T rear ring. Battery is a 52V 10ah battery from Luna Cycles. Only had a quick test ride on the street and this thing rips! Need to do a little more tuning before it's ready for prime time.


How's the CYC working out for you? How's it compare to the BBSHD? I just built up a second Mayor with the Ludicrous controller and am quite impressed. I'd love it to be lighter weight and use non-square taper cranks. But it's pretty amazing what it allows me to ride with the ski!


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

N+1, although I no longer need the plus 1.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

honkinunit said:


> The Norcos both look awesome. I would go with the suspension fork if you plan on riding it on any rough trails at all. Those have the Shimano motor system which is awesome. The top model is very well spec'ed, I love that they put a dropper post and the four piston brakes with big rotors on there.
> 
> They only negative I see is the permanently mounted battery in the frame. A question I would have is whether that is a custom battery made by Norco or a standard Shimano battery. The reason it matters is that ebike batteries wear out, depending on the manufacturer they will claim 500-1000 battery cycles. If that is a custom Norco battery, I would be worried ten years from now whether the batteries will be available. If it is a Shimano part number you would be more likely to find one ten years from now. The other downside might depend on where you keep the bike. I keep mine in an unheated garage, so I remove my batteries and bring them inside to charge and stay warm. If you have a warm place to keep the bike, with an outlet nearby, it is not as big a deal. Also, having a removable battery is a theft deterrent. Also, when I travel, I can leave the bike locked in my vehicle and bring the battery inside to charge. Finally, a removable battery allows you to carry an extra for long rides, or if you are camping away from an outlet. If none of those factors matter, then the internal battery is not an issue.


The battery isn't permanently mounted in the frame. With standard tools it can be removed in about 10 minutes. Convenient - No. Easy - Yes.

And it's good for a large range in temps.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

It would be a pain in the ass daily freezing my hands to remove it.
That is a nono for me.
Thanks for sharing the info.


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

BikesOnSnow said:


> How's the CYC working out for you? How's it compare to the BBSHD? I just built up a second Mayor with the Ludicrous controller and am quite impressed. I'd love it to be lighter weight and use non-square taper cranks. But it's pretty amazing what it allows me to ride with the ski!


I actually took the CYC X1 off and put the BBSHD back on the bike. The BBSHD just fits the bike better and is much quieter which I like. I'll be installing a ASI BAC800 controller from ERT (Electric Racing Technology) which should give me about the same power as the Ludicrous controller with a 52V battery. Higher voltage will give me more.


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## BikesOnSnow (Jan 23, 2004)

Nice, I'm actually waiting on an ASI 4000 from ERT for my Sur Ron E moto. Curious to hear how it works for you! The Ludicrous BBSHD is pretty awesome and it expanded my perspective of what seems possible with E fat bikes. I was out playing on the bike today and found that 30 x 19 worked well for me.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I went for a ride today, and as expected quickly bogged down. Too much snow, too little time between storms for it to compact a bit. 4.5" tires, the biggest I can run on my Surly Wednesday. I have plenty of power (BBSHD) and gearing (Rohloff hub), and had 5 or less PSI, real squishy. Unlike last winter though, when it does firm up a bit I'll be on it like stink on ****, last year I think I missed some great riding after some bad rides made me gave up. 
I do hit the county gravel road my place is on, when it gets some fresh snow and before the grader operator gets to it. My place is the last they plow to, all unmaintained all winter/no other houses past my place, and I have to think it entertains him when he sees bike tracks, or at least I do like leaving them.

I rode my Montague BBSHD folder 5 miles today, down the mountain to where my crane was parked, it was out of necessity but I had fun anyway. At least until I got to the lower elevations where the snow turned to slush, then I remembered I don't have a front or rear fender on the 'mont. Old snowboard clothing makes great winter bike gear though, so still stayed warm and had fun, plus got my crane back.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

portnuefpeddler said:


> I went for a ride today, and as expected quickly bogged down. Too much snow, too little time between storms for it to compact a bit. 4.5" tires, the biggest I can run on my Surly Wednesday. I have plenty of power (BBSHD) and gearing (Rohloff hub), and had 5 or less PSI, real squishy.


Wednesday can fit 4.8's. Like, um, Bud or Lou. You have to truncate the cassette by a cog or two, but it works.

5psi isn't remotely 'squishy' when discussing fresh snow.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I got my low pressure gauge out (0-15 PSI, bought for my planes low pressure tires, before I got a fatbike) today and checked, both tires were 2.75 PSI. 

My rear tire has less then 1/4" clearance to the chain stays, about as close as I want to be, and there is no cassette, but there is a Rohloff hub, that is working great and I'm not about to mess with it to gain a hair more tire width. the Juggernaught tire measure 4.34/4.5" inches width, and my chain clearance is also as close as I'd want to go.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

portnuefpeddler said:


> I got my low pressure gauge out (0-15 PSI, bought for my planes low pressure tires, before I got a fatbike) today and checked, both tires were 2.75 PSI.
> 
> My rear tire has less then 1/4" clearance to the chain stays, about as close as I want to be, and there is no cassette, but there is a Rohloff hub, that is working great and I'm not about to mess with it to gain a hair more tire width. the Juggernaught tire measure 4.34/4.5" inches width, and my chain clearance is also as close as I'd want to go.


I'm not here to tell you you have to change anything.

I'm telling you that you _can_, and should you choose to, it makes a big difference

You expressed disappointment in 2 specific things -- that there was "too much snow" and that you couldn't run a bigger tire.

2.75psi *is* low if you're riding hardpack, but on deep, soft snow you can (and must, if you want to ride) go a lot lower. I rarely get to run more than 2psi, using a 5.2" tire. Point being that your low pressure still wasn't low enough.

And secondly, I have a good friend running the 4.8" Lou on an 80mm rim with 2 chainrings up front on the same frame you have.

Compare the size and tread differences of that tire with what you're riding and both are substantial. Then run that tire at true low pressures and you might fund that your definition of "too much snow" has to evolve to match your new reality.

Or, you can say it can't/won't work without trying. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

My experience is kind of similar Mikesee.
My fatbike is just muscle power with 90 mm i run Bud/Lou with about 90 gripstuds each. 
I read all kind of non sense like there is no difference with their 3.8 on 80 mm. I can tell you that difference is Huge. I pump up to 5PSI each morning, often pedal 8 kms on streets/road to the trails than adjust deflating 0-3 times. Out of curiousity back home my gage is often 1-2 PSI. Many riders just have no clue what is possible. I am not bragging, i am no athlete but with my tiny gear i climb places many always ride the other direction because they cannot climb what i can. With a real winter snow and ice set up we can ride so many more hours.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

Ha! What you say about even lower pressure really strikes a chord, as I have told other pilots the exact same thing when the topic of how much (or how little) air pressure to use in their bush tires (always a huge topic when landing off airport, I run 3.5 myself, much lower and when turning on a steep sidehill, I have had the tire fold over). This is much lower then most, so I guess I was pre sensitized to considering 2.75 "low"! The one thing I have found, and it makes sense mathematically I guess, is that a half pound pressure diff can make a big difference for sure, when you get down into the low single digits like we are. I'm too cheap and maybe lazy to change out my tires right now though to get more float, though when they are replaced next time I will go Lou. I guess I assumed about 3/16" clearance, what I now have, between my tire and the chain stay was as close as I'd want to come, but you guys run closer?


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I aired down to 2 lbs. before my morning ride, and the difference was very noticeably better, just enough better to make it rideable, so thanks for the info. Especially better as the snow was even softer then the day before due to a warming trend. I just noticed my low pressure tire gauge, goes from 0-15 lbs., I'm sure there are probably ultra low pressure tire gauges, say from 0-5 lbs., but this one is close enough.

Speaking of tires on snow, this flying buddy get so revved up after spending a day with me (as a passenger) doing skiplane ops, that a day later, on the way past a ridge near my place, after seeing snowmachine tracks, he thought he'd try landing it.He's also a pro video drone operator, and made a pretty good video out of his screwup. I'm the guy who flew in to rescue him from a cold night up on the mountain. I am older and wiser, and most importantly I had skis! Many have suggest airing down his smallish tires may have helped. He was concerned the increased rolling resistance would be worse then the increase surface area and any possible greater flotation. I told him not to worry about getting airborne before the steep drop off, if he wasn't when he went over the edge just to keep the tail up and nose down, and he would instantly gain flying speed. He forgot to do that, and kinda staggered off after trying to rotate for liftoff several times before he had enough flying speed. But he got a good video:


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

JVG1967 said:


> New player in the market, Luna Fat Babe.
> 
> https://lunacycle.com/babe/


Hmm. Sounds interesting. I'm really curious to see how this goes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

mikesee said:


> I'm not here to tell you you have to change anything.
> 
> I'm telling you that you _can_, and should you choose to, it makes a big difference
> 
> ...


 I just put my bike away from a ride, and realized something that would effect my max tire size: my Rohloff hub is slammed forward as far as possible in the horizontal dropouts, up tight. That's because it's a QR type hub, and Rohloff says NOT to use it with such dropouts, use the TS hub instead, which can really be torqued down so as not to move. It would have been several hundred more dollars, as the only place I could find one was Cycle Monkey and they are full retail. The QR model I was able to find much readily and at a substantial discount, and it has worked out great, except for the tire size thing. I ride this bike year round, another reason i guess I am happy with a "smaller" tire.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

Left unsaid in my earlier posts, I ordered a fat bike ski from BikesOnSnow last weekend, and it arrived today. I got home at 4:30, and by 5:05 the front wheel, brake disc and brake lever (no disruption of the hydraulic system) were off and the ski was on, that quick and easy. The build quality is excellent, as is the hardware and overall design. I just had time for a quick ride up the hill behind my place, but did climb about 400' vertical, and coming down was a blast, and yes you can carve the hell out of it, to a snowboarder like myself it was pretty intuitive. I'll post a few pictures when I get time.
Surly Wednesday, BBSHD 17 AH 52 VDC battery, Rohloff hub, and now this thing, it all seems to play well together.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Just purchased a Giant Yukon fat tire bike with the intentions to mid drive for the sand dunes where I live.
Seems like this thread has turned into a snow bike so advise if I should start a new thread.
I have 2 Haibikes and a Hightower with a Revel mid drive.
Seems like the Bafang BBSHD is most popular and has a great track record.
I want torque sensing and to contribute more to the ride.
Any opinions regarding if the Tongsheng 
TDSZ2 is a viable option for serious off road riding.
Seems like most TDSZ2’s are used for on road


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

Contributing to the ride is what I do with my BBSHD, don't need torque sensing for that! PAS on zero, and a properly setup/programmed thumb throttle allows EXACTLY the amount of assist I feel the need for, and all instantly variable on the fly, so not dealing with a few pre set amounts of assist, whether torque or cadence sensed. That's how I use mine anyway, but I've never yet ridden a torque sensing bike, but all I know is my legs (and my watt meter) tells me my contribution.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I have Yamaha-equipped Haibike (torque, RPM and speed sensors AFAIK) and a BBS02 (RPM sensor only) hardtails and on the same trails either seems to provide whatever workout is desired. To me, the TSDZ hangs down like a cow's udder and wouldn't be acceptable for off road.


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

I built this one about 4 yrs ago. Wanted a f/s fat bike but couldn't afford the Salsa Bucksaw frame. Picked up a Diamondback Catch 2 frame and widened the rear triangle. Added a Bafang mid drive kit with a mighty mini battery.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

gumba said:


> I built this one about 4 yrs ago. Wanted a f/s fat bike but couldn't afford the Salsa Bucksaw frame. Picked up a Diamondback Catch 2 frame and widened the rear triangle. Added a Bafang mid drive kit with a mighty mini battery.


That is just awesome. How did it do in the snow?


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

It works great, I'm a big fan of full suspension. 
I made a few changes since then to make it more versatile. 
I road ride a couple miles up to the trails. 
I switched to a 10 speed 11-42 rear cassette, 42 front chainring Sram twist shift setup
27.5 Manitou Magnum Comp front fork, slightly sanded down the narrowest part of the fork to clear 4" tires (Van Helga's). I still have the RST Renegade fat fork w/80mm rims. 
Changed to 50mm Surly Rabbit Hole rims which lets me run tires from 3-4".
I use to swap out the motor and battery for a crank in the summer. 
I added a twist throttle to use when I get bogged down. 
I like to pedal and re-programmed the bbshd to it's lowest power settings, 7% pas1, 12% pas2, 18%pas3. With the 6 a/h mighty mini I about 40 miles road riding and 15-20 miles in winter mud & snow.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Gumba
I want to widen the rear triangle on my Haibike as you did on your Diamond back to go from 27.5 x3 to a 27.5 x 4.5 tire.
I have a TIG welder but struggle welding aluminum under .060 thick.
Curious how thick the triangle aluminum was on your Diamond back?
Would you do it again?
Do you mind showing some close up photos of how you did it?
Thanks
Highroad 2


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

The triangle aluminum was around .250". After I widened it I had to grind down the outside to clear the motor and beefed up the inside. I don't have any photos. 
I like projects so I would do it again. I contacted Diamondback after I bought the frame to buy another triangle, they said they didn't have any to sell. 
I recently built a narrow fat soft tail etrike for road riding in the snow. Unfortunately it's too narrow and hard to steer. I have another trike conversion frame and will go wider. Fun stuff.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

I like gutsy people who are willing to take a chance depreciating an item if their modifications do not turn out and you cannot but a replacement part.

I will check with Haibike if I can buy the rear triangle to return the bike back to normal if needed.

The 27.5 x 4.5 tires are 4” greater in diameter do I also need to extend the triangle 2”.
Does the aluminum lose its heat treat when we weld on it?
How wide is the drop out on your revised rear triangle?
Making the triangle wider must have helped out the chain line that they say gets worse with a Bafang on some installations.
Thanks for responding
Highroad 2


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

I looked at a lot of f/s frames and went witht the Diamondback because it was the easiest triangle to cut and modify. One cut at the bottom of the triangle. The piece I cut was hollow so I inserted a piece of aluminum between the 2 pieces.
The triangle was widnened by 1.250” to clear the tire. I machined a couple of spacers and a longer pin, and moved the bearings into the spacers. 
I think the stock bottom bracket was 73mm, and I used the 100mm BBSHS motor. 
I set the motor tight against the frame on the right side and machined a spacer for the left. 
I had to grind down the triangle to get the motor against the frame, then added a gusset on the inside. 
I used the Luna Elipse 48T chainring which has a 25mm offset which put the chainring next to the frame. 
I don’t know how the welding affects the heat treating. 
The rear spacing went from 148mm to 177mm.


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## highroad 2 (Jan 24, 2017)

Gumba
Thanks for taking the time to describe the rear triangle widening process.
And how you used a wider BBSHD in a narrower BB to get the chain line.
Highroad 2


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I just recently burnt up my 9c clone hub, front. Needed to actually have more then 1 gear to help on the hills, even slight. I noticed there was a slight not enough pep, then I noticed there was more not enough pep, so I cracked open the cover and once there was a hair of a crack I could smell the burnt winding smell.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

roughster said:


> I have the Bulls Monster E FS:
> 
> View attachment 1285331
> 
> ...


I've been hit up by a few for an update. I've had this bike almost a year now and here's my long term thoughts:

Still a great bike and still do not regret purchasing it. The bike has multiple uses and a few cons I'll describe below:

PROS:
- Stable and solid for new riders. My son (previously) and wife (currently) have cut their teeth on MTBing on it. It is AWESOME having a bike that you can slap a beginner on that you know is capable of anything blue and under and they will have fun. Allows me to take them on rides they couldn't power by themselves. They also loved/love smoking me up the hills when I riding standard.

- Motor is strong and the battery lasts a long time even under heavy use. I have been really impressed with the battery lasting as long as it does as I typically ride in very heavy elevation rich areas.

- It is amazing for trail grooming. After I dig in slightly damp or moist soil that needs tire packed, I ride this back and forth and it grooms the dirt to perfection. Really good for trailbuilding! It also leaves a nice foot print through grass and weeds which I can then follow up with a weed whacker to establish new tracks.

CONS:
- Its a heavy bike. Like 60+ lbs. Sucks to lift over stuff (fences / gates) and on steeps gets ALOT of momentum going. The Magura brakes (4 piston / 2 pistons) front and back respectively can control it under load and momentum though so that's nice.

- It is not capable of Blacks / Jumping. As I started building bigger and more technical trails / features I quickly abandonded using it for riding them. Its a trail bike. You will start risking breaking stuff by launching it.

- The battery attachment could be a little more secure. I noticed it wiggling quite a bit on rougher trails so I fixed that by putting two velcro straps around the battery and the frame when I know its going to get ridden on rough terrain.

- Wish the geo was a little more progressive but that is more a function of trying to ride it above its pay grade. Riding it for what its designed for doesn't feel twitchy.

That's it. If you're on the fence and don't expect to ride it hard on black trails, this bike is really a great choice. This also assumes you can handle moving around a 60 lbs bike. For me it's no big deal, but my wife would struggle loading / unloading it around without my help.


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

I converted my Intense Uzzi a few years back using a BBSHD kit and a mighty mini 6ah battery (3 lbs). The weight was around 45 lbs. The battery weight seems to be where weight difference comes in. 
My 2nd ebike build was widening the rear triangle on a Diamondback Catch2, BBSHD kit and mighty mini battery. That bike is in the low 50 lbs.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

roughster said:


> I've been hit up by a few for an update. I've had this bike almost a year now and here's my long term thoughts:
> 
> Still a great bike and still do not regret purchasing it. The bike has multiple uses and a few cons I'll describe below:
> 
> ...


Thanks for your input.
Can it be used 2 hrs at minus 25?
Would 4.8 fit or is iit limited to 4.6, 3.8??


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## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

33red said:


> Thanks for your input.
> Can it be used 2 hrs at minus 25?
> Would 4.8 fit or is iit limited to 4.6, 3.8??


Yes, but you must service the free hub, by removing the grease and replacing with synthetic motor oil.
Depends on the tire brand.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

gumba said:


> I converted my Intense Uzzi a few years back using a BBSHD kit and a mighty mini 6ah battery (3 lbs). The weight was around 45 lbs. The battery weight seems to be where weight difference comes in.
> My 2nd ebike build was widening the rear triangle on a Diamondback Catch2, BBSHD kit and mighty mini battery. That bike is in the low 50 lbs.


The BBSHD's are really nice mid drives.
What voltage are you running your 6Ah batteries at?

The battery does add a lot of weight, but I mean you could go ahead and add an ultra light 1Ah battery but you wont get very far at all, thats why its a balancing act if you are concerned about the weight. Some years I am concerned about the weight of my ebike, other years I just get the biggest battery I can stuff inside the triangle above the crank. 27.5Ah at 48V was my last biggest battery I had. LiPo batteries are a valid option, but Lithium Ion 18650 format is the go to, though I see the 21700 are taking stride especially at www.ebikes.ca website. Lots of options out there for batteries, just gotta look for the most power dense pack there is available for the price point you want. Its not something to skimp on thats for sure, especially from some unknown builder/seller. Reputable builders/sellers give peace of mind.


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## ylbl (Oct 25, 2019)

*interested*

I'd like to hear more about your set, as i do also have a Mayor and would like to make it e-bike. I have the newer frame version, medium size.


JVG1967 said:


> Just upgraded my RSD Mayor with a new CYC X1 Pro motor. Running a single speed setup with a 30T front and 15T rear ring. Battery is a 52V 10ah battery from Luna Cycles. Only had a quick test ride on the street and this thing rips! Need to do a little more tuning before it's ready for prime time.


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## JVG1967 (Feb 22, 2014)

ylbl said:


> I'd like to hear more about your set, as i do also have a Mayor and would like to make it e-bike. I have the newer frame version, medium size.


I actually took the CYC X1 off the bike as it's too unreliable. It's been replaced with a 120mm BBSHD from Luna. The single speed has also been upgraded to a 9 speed setup. It's a much more reliable setup and having gears has made the bike more usable and more fun to ride.


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## OperatorBo (Mar 20, 2011)

*2021 Norco Bigfoot VLT*


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Hopefully someone comes out with a real e-fatbike with the ability to take 5.0 tires. Rossignol did but they don't respond and their dealers have no idea. I made several calls and sent emails.


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## Bullfrog123 (Mar 21, 2018)

FWIW, I am running a Mongoose Hitch with a BBSHD, 52v/14s6p battery from EM3ev in the front triangle and a Maxxis 26x4.8" tire on the stock rear rim and everything works pretty good. Only drawback is the 4.8" tire skids if you are on leaves/pine straw. Floats great on sand .


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Foes soon


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

OperatorBo said:


>


Still waiting for 2 of these 2021 Norco Bigfoot VLT 1s to arrive at my LBS. I threw caution to the wind and pulled the trigger on them for me and my daughter. About 2 weeks late, and counting...

Getting pretty impatient now that we got a second major dump of snow...


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## The Squeaky Wheel (Dec 30, 2003)

Flyer said:


> Hopefully someone comes out with a real e-fatbike with the ability to take 5.0 tires. Rossignol did but they don't respond and their dealers have no idea. I made several calls and sent emails.


that bike is too loud for you


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Flyer said:


> Hopefully someone comes out with a real e-fatbike with the ability to take 5.0 tires. Rossignol did but they don't respond and their dealers have no idea. I made several calls and sent emails.


https://moustachebikes.com/en/electric-bikes/samedi-27-off/samedi-26-fat-4/


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

That Moustache looks interesting and would be even more interesting with 27.5 fat tires. I can't see the geometry chart though.


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