# I. Hate. Goat. Heads. !



## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

*Last Thursday* I rode through an empty dirt lot on the way home from work at night. Went inside the house with the bike; saw a goathead on my front tire. Bummer.

I pulled up a chair with tweezers to pull it out and saw more. And more. And more  !

After spending approx. 20 mins. going over both tires I pulled approx. 2 dozen goatheads and thorns.

*Saturday*; getting ready for work. About to roll out the bike for the commute; look down and see my front tire completely flat. Bummer; must of not gotten all the goatheads and thorns. Back bike is solid as a rock. I swap front tire/wheel and head off for work.

One block from work I feel my tail get wobbly like the back tire aired down real low. Hop off the bike; squeeze said tire. Very low air pressure :madman: . So I walked the final block to work.

*Today*; I break down said tires/wheels to swap inner tubes and proceed to pull yet more thorns. Over a dozen more. After inspect outside of tires I inspected the inside.

I bought Slime 5X Thicker inner tubes last Fall because I read more flats happen in Winter confused but ended up swapping them out for lighter inner tubes because they're _HEAVY!_ As in 7.5lbs rear studded tire/Slime inner tube/wheel. The front is 6.4lbs studded tire/Slime inner tube/wheel. I guess I'll just HTFU and ride/commute with 14+lbs of rotating mass until the end of Winter. What does not kill me will make me stronger; right :lol: :cryin: ?!!


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Damn. 2 dozen+ in the tires and at least three flats would have me hating them too. I`m surprised you`re having so much trouble in the winter, though. Maybe because when they get damp and then freeze they get like steel?


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

rodar y rodar said:


> Damn. 2 dozen+ in the tires and at least three flats would have me hating them too. I`m surprised you`re having so much trouble in the winter, though. Maybe because when they get damp and then freeze they get like steel?


Definitely a lesson learned.

It was a vacant dirt lot on a corner of an intersection. I didn't want to deal with the intersection (Rush hour traffic) so I cut into and through a grocery store parking lot and rode behind several stores before the lot came up in front of me. Riding through (what I now know is Tribulus Terrestris) ground-level foliage I was more concerned with holes and ruts because of poor lighting and I didn't know what plants goatheads came from. After Googling it; that's exactly what I rode through: A freakin' mine field of goatheads :lol: .


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Best tip - learn to recognize them!!! :thumbsup: 









It's like poison oak too - I hate them so much, I can spot them mixed in w/ all kinds of other foliage from a mile a way - for the most part ...


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

Another thing about them, is that they're almost exclusively near roadways. I dunno if it's a chicken or the egg thing, but they're (thorn/seed) engineered to spread by sticking into something (like a tire) and then later breaking off and depositing elsewhere - to spawn more demon weed. - next to the road/walking paths.

You hardly ever see them anywhere else.

This wasn't supposed to be enlightening - just something I noticed 

Also, when we were growing up we called them 'Bull-thorns' - might be a regional thing, but 'bull-thorn' yields little results on google


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

highdelll said:


> Best tip - learn to recognize them!!! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yep; Those are the little S.O.B.'s I rode over alright. A whole field of them.


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## Lino. (Oct 30, 2009)

Recognizing the plants are of some use, but the goat heads are worse when they are dry and no longer attached to the plant.
When they are attached to the plant they are still green and softer.
I have never had a green one on my tire, never, and I have dealt with them things all my life.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Yeah, when they`re still green, it`s tempting to roll around in them like a big green pillow 
But I don`t get why you have them in the winter, CDA. Your profile says Boise, which I know to be colder than here, and we don`t have any weeds in the winter.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

So you used slime tubes and still got punctures? I wonder how Stan's tubeless holds up to goat heads. We have them all around here, but I haven't had a problem with them on my MTB yet. Rode off the trail on my commuter once though, right through a patch and it sounded like I was rolling over bubble wrap. BRRRRAAAAAAPAAPAPAPPAPAAP! Punctuated of course with a few choice words .


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## tk1971 (Aug 10, 2007)

What the heck is a goathead?

I thought you were talking about some hipster slinging a goat-tee trying to squat on your front tire...


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## Quercus agrifolia (Jan 30, 2005)

I feel your pain. Had this problem continually last year, but in late summer/early fall with the dry goatheads.

Then, I installed Schwalbe Marathon Supremes. Problem solved. Heavy? Sure. Spendy? Definitely. But my sanity is worth it.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

tk1971 said:


> What the heck is a goathead?
> 
> I thought you were talking about some hipster slinging a goat-tee trying to squat on your front tire...


Where`s Commuterboy`s artwork? This`ll have to do:
http://www.google.com/images?client...F-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi


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## J. Fragera (Apr 16, 2008)

Nature's caltrop +1

Yeah, I'm a geek.


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## ImaFred (May 16, 2009)

daaaamn, that sucks. Here in Vegas we ride through those and cactus and ghetto tubeless usually does the job, so maybe try that


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## Leopold Porkstacker (Apr 21, 2010)

I've been sold on *Panaracer Flat-Away Felted Kevlar tire liners* since 2007:

https://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TU402Z01-Panaracer+Kevlar+Flat+Away+Tire+Liner.aspx










I've only had two flats in the past 2,900 miles on my current bike, one from a 4" long carpentry nail hit at about 22MPH, and the other was a pinch flat from nailing a boulder really hard on a trail. The Panaracer felted Kevlar liners are a stretchy fabric, and I've demonstrated to people with an ice pick how much force is required to actually puncture through it. They're incredibly lightweight, and add a tad of confidence to my rides; I still however, carry a spare tube and patch kit, since I'm paranoid.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Late to the party, but here it is. A team effort by CommuterBoy and MtbXplorer:


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> So you used slime tubes and still got punctures? I wonder how Stan's tubeless holds up to goat heads. We have them all around here, but I haven't had a problem with them on my MTB yet. Rode off the trail on my commuter once though, right through a patch and it sounded like I was rolling over bubble wrap. BRRRRAAAAAAPAAPAPAPPAPAAP! Punctuated of course with a few choice words .


The front tire had no Slime; Tire went flat over night. The back tire had Slime and it lasted a day and a half before it went flat one block from work.


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## Boise Jim (Apr 19, 2010)

Hey cda-
Live in Boise also. Ever since I went tubeless (Stan's) on both my commuter and mountain bike, I haven't had a problem with those little bastards. 
Kind of a hassle to set up initially, but well worth it in the long run.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Yay! I was gonna post my killer artwork. Thanks Rodar. 

I have seen a few after the really, really warm january we had. now it's flipping cold again and there's snow everywhere, but they were waking up with that warm snap.

My salvation has been going tubeless. I'm a teacher and I keep track of driving days and flat tires. Last year I had 5 flats. Year before, I had 12. Year before that, 7. All goatheads. that's just on the commute. This year I went tubeless, and I'm at 0 flats, and 2/3 of the way through the year. I pull them out or brush them out with a gloved hand while riding, and forget about it. 

BUT I grew up in goathead country, and learned to recognize them in my Jr. High BMX days... steering clear of the plants will save you a lot of headache.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Boise Jim said:


> Hey cda-
> Live in Boise also. Ever since I went tubeless (Stan's) on both my commuter and mountain bike, I haven't had a problem with those little bastards.
> Kind of a hassle to set up initially, but well worth it in the long run.


I think I might look into that.

If you know where the Fair Ground is, the triangular dirt lot I rode through is on the corner of Glenwood and Chinden; next to the quick-lube place.

Have you been to B.B.P. (Boise Bike Project)? I'm a regular there.


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## Boise Jim (Apr 19, 2010)

Hey cda-
Just was at BBP on Wednesday. Dropped off about 8 tires or so. Love to support that place.
When I rebuilt my mountain bike, I gave them my old Trek 7000 frame. It was gone in no time!
It seems to be growing in popularity too.
If you change over to Stan's, just follow the installation videos on his web site and you'll be good to go.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Boise Jim said:


> Hey cda-
> Just was at BBP on Wednesday. Dropped off about 8 tires or so. Love to support that place.
> When I rebuilt my mountain bike, I gave them my old Trek 7000 frame. It was gone in no time!
> It seems to be growing in popularity too.
> If you change over to Stan's, just follow the installation videos on his web site and you'll be good to go.


BBP has a Cannondale Super V700 I've been eyeballing.

Yeah, I went to Stan's website and saw what it took to go tubeless. Is there any particular kit you recommend?


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## Boise Jim (Apr 19, 2010)

First off, check and see if your rim is presta or schrader, then you need to get the rim width. Do you have calipers to measure that?
Once you figure out those two, then order the corresponding kit.
But, here's the kicker- I got mine through George's. Ended up being the same price as the website, plus I didn't have to pay shipping.
They are a little limited on sizes, so call them first.


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

Boise Jim said:


> First off, check and see if your rim is presta or schrader, then you need to get the rim width. Do you have calipers to measure that?
> Once you figure out those two, then order the corresponding kit.
> But, here's the kicker- I got mine through George's. Ended up being the same price as the website, plus I didn't have to pay shipping.
> They are a little limited on sizes, so call them first.


Went to BBP yesterday; the Super V700 was gone  .

I think I'm going to bite the bullet and get Stan's wheelset and tubless set up. His 29'er wheelset for Clydesdale's weigh only 1575g :thumbsup: !


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## Lino. (Oct 30, 2009)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> So you used slime tubes and still got punctures? I wonder how Stan's tubeless holds up to goat heads. We have them all around here, but I haven't had a problem with them on my MTB yet. Rode off the trail on my commuter once though, right through a patch and it sounded like I was rolling over bubble wrap. BRRRRAAAAAAPAAPAPAPPAPAAP! Punctuated of course with a few choice words .


I have Stan's tubeless and I can pull out a goat head, rotate tire and it seals without a problem, this was the main reason I bought Stan's tubeless, we have plenty here in California, I couldn't be happier with Stan's.
Great product.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Stans is great, but homebrew sealant can last a LOT longer. Stans is good for 3 months in hot weather, maybe. I just re-filled my mountain bike tires with my homebrew sealant after 11 MONTHS with zero flats. Made my own tubeless set-up with Gorilla Tape and valves cut out of old tubes. Cost me nothing. 

Go to the 29er forum and search for "best tubeless brew" thread. 15 or so pages...a gold mine of tubeless info. Once you go mad scientist and start mixing up your own recipes, you won't go back. :lol:


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

CommuterBoy said:


> Stans is great, but homebrew sealant can last a LOT longer. Stans is good for 3 months in hot weather, maybe. I just re-filled my mountain bike tires with my homebrew sealant after 11 MONTHS with zero flats. Made my own tubeless set-up with Gorilla Tape and valves cut out of old tubes. Cost me nothing.
> 
> Go to the 29er forum and search for "best tubeless brew" thread. 15 or so pages...a gold mine of tubeless info. Once you go mad scientist and start mixing up your own recipes, you won't go back. :lol:


You bring up a point: What do you mean, "Good for 3 months in hot weather, maybe."?

The stuff has a short life span  ???

And what do you do; Add more sealant or drain and refill?


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

It dries out over time and turns into a booger. More so in hot tempereratures. You can just add more, or pull the tire, remove the booger, and refill. The inside of the tire retains a nice coating that you probably don't want to remove, especially if it's not a 'tubeless' tire..non tubeless tires seep more when they're first set up, then they get a nice coating and stop seeping. 

Stans seals amazingly well, but it dries out fast. (higher latex content)
Slime lasts a long time, but doesn't have the sealing properties of stans (contains antifreeze (propolene glycol) and less latex)
Cafelatex and others are somewhere in the middle. 

After reading that thread in the 29er forum cover to cover, I landed on a recipe containing latex mold builder, water, antifreeze, and automotive slime (with the little chunks in it)... yields about a gallon of the stuff, and 3 oz's lasted me 11 months before I started noticing air loss and hearing bouncing boogers in the tires.


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## rashidkpc (Oct 18, 2010)

Lino. said:


> I have Stan's tubeless and I can pull out a goat head, rotate tire and it seals without a problem, this was the main reason I bought Stan's tubeless, we have plenty here in California, I couldn't be happier with Stan's.
> Great product.


Yep, commuting is the main reason I went stans tubeless as well. I've yet to pick up a goat head on the trail, but those vines have a way of creeping into the bike lane all along my commute. Its not unusual for me to pull out 3 or 4 when I get to work/home. I spin the tire and everything seals right up :-D


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

CommuterBoy said:


> ...homebrew sealant can last a LOT longer... my homebrew sealant after 11 MONTHS with zero flats. Made my own tubeless set-up with Gorilla Tape and valves cut out of old tubes. Cost me nothing. Go to the 29er forum and search for "best tubeless brew" thread...a gold mine of tubeless info. Once you go mad scientist and start mixing up your own recipes, you won't go back. :lol:


Bwaahahaa!  Scientist. Check. Certifiable. Very likely. Good to go! :thumbsup:


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ I have learned valuable things about ammonia keeping latex in its liquid state, and how to mix propolene glycol with water before adding latex, so you don't create a bouncy ball :lol:

:idea:


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## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> ^^ I have learned valuable things about ammonia keeping latex in its liquid state, and how to mix propolene glycol with water before adding latex, so you don't create a bouncy ball :lol:
> 
> How have your Big Apple Lite tires been holding since converting them to tubeless last year...


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

One seated up reall well on the WTB speed disc rim, and the other always lost a bit of air... I had to add air every week or so. They seeped a little bit of sealant at the sidewall for a few weeks, and then that completely stopped. I just 'recharged' them with new sealant about a month ago, and when I reinstalled, I must have done something right, because they both sealed up very well. I have not added air in over 3 weeks, I have no seepage, and they are awesome. 

They are not "lite's" though... they are the Big Apple 2.35...the 29er version. They are really heavy tires, very puncture resistant, but you pay for it in weight.


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## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

thanks commuterboy, good to know

I think I am going to buy a set of the BA Lites and see if they will work for a tubeless setup


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## apatron (Feb 9, 2010)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> I've been sold on *Panaracer Flat-Away Felted Kevlar tire liners* since 2007:
> 
> https://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TU402Z01-Panaracer+Kevlar+Flat+Away+Tire+Liner.aspx
> 
> ...


:Just ordered this to give it a try:thumbsup: Thanks for the tip


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## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

Leopold Porkstacker said:


> I've been sold on *Panaracer Flat-Away Felted Kevlar tire liners* since 2007:
> 
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/TU402Z01-Panaracer+Kevlar+Flat+Away+Tire+Liner.aspx
> 
> I've only had two flats in the past 2,900 miles on my current bike, one from a 4" long carpentry nail hit at about 22MPH, and the other was a pinch flat from nailing a boulder really hard on a trail. The Panaracer felted Kevlar liners are a stretchy fabric, and I've demonstrated to people with an ice pick how much force is required to actually puncture through it. They're incredibly lightweight, and add a tad of confidence to my rides; I still however, carry a spare tube and patch kit, since I'm paranoid.


Leopold-That stuff looks great, 25g for the road version. I'll have to weigh a rubber liner. Any trouble getting them to center and stay there? Friggin pricey too! About 5 tubes worth. (I started judging all my purchases by tubes worth btw. New fork? 120 tubes.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Stans works great, but a less expensive solution might be going with Schwalbe Marathon Plus.
I bought a pair of Schwalbe Marathon Plus and I didn't have a flat again. The goat heads can't make it through the thick rubber, I know it's hard to believe, but they worked for me.
I have them on my 26er and they come in road sizes as well.
Make sure you get the PLUS' with the blue guard.
Here's a good link about the tires.
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/schwalbe.asp

Here's a another write up.

http://smtp.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/marathon_plus

Amazon sells them.

Woody


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## cda 455 (Aug 9, 2010)

woody.1 said:


> Stans works great, but a less expensive solution might be going with Schwalbe Marathon Plus.
> I bought a pair of Schwalbe Marathon Plus and I didn't have a flat again. The goat heads can't make it through the thick rubber, I know it's hard to believe, but they worked for me.
> I have them on my 26er and they come in road sizes as well.
> Make sure you get the PLUS' with the blue guard.
> ...


Those tires are heeeaaaavy!

They weigh almost as much as my studded snow tires.

But they sound very bullet-proof.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

A few years ago I rode to the trails. Passed through an industrial area with rock quarries (Irwindale, CA). Long story short, rode through some goat heads (at the time I didn't know of their existence or what these things were called). I notoced my first tire went flat. Then the back tire. I had to turn around and walk my bike home. I think it was about 10 miles. Had people look at me. Every now and then I'd stop to pump my tires so that I could roll the bike easier. Yep, no spare tubes or patches  When I was near home, a lid outside saw me and ran after me offering his pump. I said thanks but it won't help. Worse bike ride ever!


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## MTBMike Colorado (Sep 6, 2011)

I always commute on the MTB with Stans, got sick of having flats to/from work. Even if it's 20 miles, you'll save time over the long haul not ever having to stop to change flats.


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