# Insane Quad MCE bike light



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Coming along soon


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Tease!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

pinkrobe said:


> Tease!


Be along soon

just waiting for some pics to upload


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

Just when we thought we had the ultimate light!

Damn you Troutie


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

click on the photobucket link. Also seen on CPF this orning. Looks good!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Insanely big post*

I know you are all fed up with Troutie and his lights And I was not going to post this one at all 
and it was because of a post on CPF which I replied to which let the cat out.

This has been ongoing for a while now waiting for a hipflex and got put aside while the XPE lights were done , and Deestas sort of developed .

The Hipflex will be available very soon so it was time to get it ready to recieve it.

The housing was turned from a 38 mm solid bar for the fins and then the cavity milled out 
I am really supprised that my mill has kept going after all the abuse it has had.










Then I glued 4 of the CMC holders together with some plastic epoxy these were then used to get the spacing correct for the 4 MCE M bin
Each MCE was to be wired paralel and then the 4 mce in series.

I milled 2 grooves to isolate the mce contacts and for the wires to run in










Then it was mix some AA epoxy and apply to the back of the MCEs and fit them into the housing 
The holders did not press on the MCEs so I had to replace the optics to get some pressure on the leds while the AA set.










Then a quick test on my Nflex test rig it all lit up great .

and this is the Hipflex house all ready , they are a bit large 35.6 mm dia
I have left this oversize and will trim it down whae I see how much space it requires 
I am going to have a remote switch so no space needed just cable entries .










Next we come to the bar mounts this is using the bars as heat sink too so they were milled to slot in to the fins for a good contact and will be bolted and AA to get good transfer.




























It is just waiting for a Hipflex from George and it will be up and running 
It does seem to be pretty bright running off the Nflex @ 1000ma 
so each led is seeing 250 ma 
and the VF of the lot was 11.67v

How many lumens for 16 emmitters @ 250ma

I will be tempted to get a beam shot even @ 250 ma

Oh The optics Have been chosen because they were the only ones I had left.
and are 
1 CMC-RS 
and 3 CMC- SS


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## jerry_c (Jan 11, 2009)

That is "effin' rad"! I can't wait the beamshots!


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## czarny_kruk (Jan 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> How many lumens for 16 emmitters @ 250ma


4 Cree MC-E M bin, so min. 430lm * 0,76 (@250ma) * 4 = *1307 lumens min* :thumbsup:

Easily beat Lupine Betty, which have only 910 real lumens. Not 1500 as they claim.


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Very nice write up and pictures. 
Alot more info than the CPF post I saw a few hours ago.
I had been following the CPF thread for a bit and still have the same question. 
Will lithium ions be able to provide the amp draw at higher light output levels? 
It seems the lithium polymers handle higher draws much better.:thumbsup: 
Any estimate of what the amperage draw will be at full power?  
Inquiring minds need to know.:crazy:


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

That looks phenomenal. Well done!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*You wont believe the beam shot*

I had to do it , a quick visit to the woods .

I only have the Nflex and 18 v drill battery I could use .

Now that is the WOW factor I was expecting 6 months ago that never happened.

and this is @ 250 ma per led ( thanks czarny_kruk for the maths )

Prepare your selves ,

If you have followed my beamshots then You will know the trees on the right middle distance are 75 Mtres away

the trees in the far distance are over 150 mtres away and dont show on many beam shots

untill now

I was expecting as some one commented on CPF a huge wall of light with no throw .


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

wow. sweet! This was probably asked before...but how do you get the inside corners to be right angles using mill?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

*t*

..................:yikes: :yikes: :yikes: ..... Chuffin nora!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> wow. sweet! This was probably asked before...but how do you get the inside corners to be right angles using mill?


Cheers Cytoe , this might sound daft but I chopped them out using a small wood chisel 
with the Ledils you only need to square off the top 3 mm


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

holy crap. that is truly amazing. I can't wait to see full amperage!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I think it looks quite cool stood up


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

So your 4 up @ 250 mA has better "useable" light than the triple @ 500mA  

Do you think this is because the triple was so damn bright over such a wide area that the reflected light coming back from trail side objects played tricks on the eyes and blinded you to the distant objects?

Do you think these things work better, for our application at least, the lower the input current?

Go on mate, take the triple back out and do the same test at 250mA to see if it changes the "visible" throw you can see 

Oh yeah and as I said yesterday, really nice work :thumbsup:


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## mdsjack (Oct 26, 2007)

pinkrobe said:


> Tease!


Hype!


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## riggsy (Jul 2, 2008)

bloody hell Chris thats awesome... kinda makes me depressed looking at my sorry set up now

cant wait for pics once its fully up to power


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

odtexas said:


> Very nice write up and pictures.
> Alot more info than the CPF post I saw a few hours ago.
> I had been following the CPF thread for a bit and still have the same question.
> Will lithium ions be able to provide the amp draw at higher light output levels?
> ...


Thanks for the comments

I dont know about the power draw but the makita drill batterys are designed for abuse 
fast discharge and charge . and I doubt it will see the full 2800ma much 
only to to upset the betty owners .

at full power it will be drawing a tad above 2800ma

and am I right in thinking 3200 lumens ish


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

really impressed w/ the clamp. was that the hardest part?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> really impressed w/ the clamp. was that the hardest part?


Cheers 
Yes probably took the most time 
I should have made them as 1 large one and then split into 2 
but I made each seperate so double the tool changes and each process


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> So your 4 up @ 250 mA has better "useable" light than the triple @ 500mA
> 
> Do you think this is because the triple was so damn bright over such a wide area that the reflected light coming back from trail side objects played tricks on the eyes and blinded you to the distant objects?
> 
> ...


Thanks Stu for the thumbs up yesterday and about posting it

If I can workout which maxflex setting is the same per die I will give it a go


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## leeroybrown (Apr 20, 2007)

wow that looks sweet,hows the samples of the 3 led getting on?


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

The amount of illumination in those back trees is very impressive. I don't think you have had any light that has filled in the back section so well before. 

Seems we have the answer to your early question of which MCE optic is going to be the winner. It is such a shame that these weren't the first optics to come out for the MCE, we probably wouldn't have been quite so unimpressed with the MCE then. 

The brightness when run at 2.8 amps is going to be unholy!


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## texas (Nov 26, 2004)

*very well done.*

wow you have done it again. insanely nice work.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Very nice bit of kit, get them upto @500-600Ma's if I was you, after then too much heat generated rather that light.

Think twice as bright at 600ma's WOWSA's.

Can you make me 1 too pretty pretty please


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

Great build Troutie - very impressive. That beam shot is about what I see with my dual 2x MC-E I ride with - but that is in two separate housings.

I do suggest monitoring the temperature at the back of the leds when you throw 600 ma into it. That is nearly 36 watts of power and will need to be dumped to ambient quickly to prevent the leds from frying.

Very nice build


Bob


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Hi Yah Mr T  yet another impressive light







. I'm coming up in a couple of weeks time so we have to get out and do an evenings recce with them :thumbsup:


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## 12wheels (Dec 10, 2005)

Very impressive but I'd hate to be riding towards you. Do you have nyctophobia?


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

I think you can be pretty sure of having the brightest bikelight when you get the hipflex. 
That lamp body looks like a flashlight, really cool design. Haha, that would actually have been a fun mod. Cutting up the side on a flashlight and placing the emitters inside. 
Are those WG emitters? The trees looks so green and nice.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

Damn! That's a lot of light. You have outdone yourself again. Thanks for all of your effort and sharing it with everyone.


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

*sunglasses at night*


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

Wow...yes that is insane! Very very nice! Thanks for all you postings. It's all very informative and entertaining as well  I'm gonna have to try the CMC optics.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks for all the nice comments there guys 
It has been much fun doing this one as it is for me even better.

I was shaking with nerves at the prospect of soldering the pins correctly
but it was really satisfying to watch the solder flow on to the pins . and not nearly as difficult as expected.


il2mb
I will do some testing with it on the bike and I have had great results with my ali clamps heatsinking to the bars and if needed could make some fatter ones .


12.wheels 
Now I have googled it no I really like the dark 


Smudge 

Yes please do but be prepared for a slow ride as not got fit yet .

gillestugan

Yes they are WG ones 
I am not sure about having the brightest light 
I am just a serial tinkerer and like pushing the envelope just to see if it can be done.

achesalot
Cheers , we would all be interested in your findings if you do .

I am wondering about something here .

When I ordered some CMC ss from Bram
he had been sent some which were for the XPE to cut a long story short 
he sent me the extra ones 
I did think when removed from there holders I could not see any difference 
and I have used these in this build.

if you look inside the led recess there is a dome shaped lens 
in the mce ones there looks to be 4 sub lenses also these are also evident in the Xpe ones .


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Ah, I see that you've unleashed the quad on the world Chris.... 

Looks really good mate, can't wait to see the hipflex beamshots:thumbsup:


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## peteoheat (Sep 29, 2008)

Troutie,

By heatsinking the MCE's through the bars so get a very nice hand warmer into the bargain!

Mark


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I think it's absolutely useless :skep: What's the use in going for a night ride when it look slike day  Damn that thing is bright as hell :eekster: you better have a dimmer on it if you plan on hitting any road sections or riding on multi directional trails. Heck i'm sure my bro could use one of them on his rally car instead of normal rally spot/fogs and save a ton of weight. Any idea on cost of that setup?


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## PaMtnBkr (Feb 28, 2005)

*full power=flame thrower!*



riggsy said:


> bloody hell Chris thats awesome... kinda makes me depressed looking at my sorry set up now
> 
> cant wait for pics once its fully up to power


Hell, at full power that thing will cause trees and bushes to burst into flames! Gotta love Troutie pushing the limits on lights! Really love his XP-E light too!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

LyNx said:


> I think it's absolutely useless :skep: What's the use in going for a night ride when it look slike day  Damn that thing is bright as hell :eekster: you better have a dimmer on it if you plan on hitting any road sections or riding on multi directional trails. Heck i'm sure my bro could use one of them on his rally car instead of normal rally spot/fogs and save a ton of weight. Any idea on cost of that setup?


:lol::lol:
You could say the same about any car / motorbike that is able to do 100mph plus
The HipFlex driver is the throttle peddle So I can dial in any power level I wish to use.
Yes it is insane , but so am I .

cost ??

4 = MCE M bin WG from cutters £70
4 cmc optics estimated £16
1 Hipflex estimated £ 30
1 switch £ 4
cable & power socket £ 6
ali for housing £ 6
2 clamps for quick release £ 6
====
---------------------------------------------- £ 138 or us$ 197.00 or Euro 156.77
li ion battery and charger 
battery space just example 
as got them allready £ 119 $ 170 
----------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------ £ 257 $ 367
pleasure of making and using = priceless

3000 lumens max 11.67 lumens per £1

nearest hi power light Lupine betty 14 £ 775 = $ 1108

1500 lumens = 1.93 lumens per £1

peteoheat
nice idea but so much mass and area they stay cold


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## SkUG (Feb 19, 2008)

ahh nice! thats the same design as the build i'm still under taking  
Very nice!


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> pleasure of making and using = priceless


How very spooky! I was planning a similar post to show the cost of my little light, but I was going to say "Heatsink by Troutie: priceless" 

I would also say that watching your projects is priceless, Long may you continue to innovate and provide much pleasure to your readers. Well done, Chris.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

SkUG said:


> ahh nice! thats the same design as the build i'm still under taking
> Very nice!


Thanks Skug 
get some piccys up we like pics

Neil thanks also . but there may not be much out of the Trout pool 
as I have not worked for 3 weeks and no work on the horizon so no cash for projects.


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## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

Well this could be an opportunity to set shop and start your own business: Trout Lights.

I used to hang around CPF (still do), but thanks mostly to you mister Troutie, I find myself coming to MTBR more and more often (even though you also post on CPF).


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## dsvilko (Dec 23, 2008)

First of, fantastic light! This is probably the first light that you can get more than usable illumination with above 100lm/W efficiency. If I am not mistaken, when driven at about 100mA it should produce about 600lm with only 5W!

What I would like to know is why does nobody use cooling fans when constructing high power led lights? The lights could be even more compact, possibly without any outside cooling fins (all the fins could be in an internal 'air tunnel'). While riding the bike I don't think the added noise would be noticeable and the additional current draw is completely insignificant when compared to the leds. It could even make the construction extremely cheep and simple as you could possibly use a low-cost square CPU cooler with very little modification (CPU coolers have to be able to dissipate over 60W which should be plenty for a few MC-E emitters). 
Anyway... would like to hear your thoughts.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dsvilko said:


> First of, fantastic light! This is probably the first light that you can get more than usable illumination with above 100lm/W efficiency. If I am not mistaken, when driven at about 100mA it should produce about 600lm with only 5W!
> 
> What I would like to know is why does nobody use cooling fans when constructing high power led lights? The lights could be even more compact, possibly without any outside cooling fins (all the fins could be in an internal 'air tunnel'). While riding the bike I don't think the added noise would be noticeable and the additional current draw is completely insignificant when compared to the leds. It could even make the construction extremely cheep and simple as you could possibly use a low-cost square CPU cooler with very little modification (CPU coolers have to be able to dissipate over 60W which should be plenty for a few MC-E emitters).
> Anyway... would like to hear your thoughts.


Thank You Dsvilko

My Thoughts on fan cooling yes it would work well but here in the UK we have to ride lots in the rain and for the fan cooling to work the light would need inlet and exhaust ports 
which would also let in the rain.

I dont think a light like mine could get any simpler and I could see a way to put a fan in and have it nearly waterproof but it is adding complexity to a pretty minimalist design.

It is a thought for a future project for my brother who is building a motorcycle Trike 
and wants some very bright led lights for it

Though I am probably sailing very close to the limits with this one and I wont know that for a while untill I get a Hipflex and can push them a bit.

I can get a probe right down close to the leds to about 2 mm from the dies and on my desk @ 250ma per die they slowly warm up the housing and stabilise at 33c and hold that temp I have not yet tried on the bike bars yet .or with a desk fan blowing.

Calina , Thanks also for the kind words .
and nice idea , who knows sell a few housings and it may take off .

The major problem is the cheap P7 / MCE torches from china which has made the DIY seem a bit expensive . 
and the fact that GB plc is on its arse and the £ is worthless .


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## Calina (Apr 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks also for the kind words .
> and nice idea , who knows sell a few housings and it may take off .
> 
> The major problem is the cheap P7 / MCE torches from china which has made the DIY seem a bit expensive .
> and the fact that GB plc is on its arse and the £ is worthless .


Not everybody wants one or those cheap chinese lights. As far as I know quite a few still buy expensive lights and your lights are much better than theirs anyway.

Take the bad exchange rate as an opportunity. If the Pound is low, this makes your lights more attractive to foreign buyers. Anyway, you should price your lights (in usd) as if the Pound was still at a more favourable exchange rate and convert that price to your final price in Pounds. . It would be bad business practice to price them at such a rate that you would have to readjust their value every time there is a move in the exchange rate.


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## Geir68 (May 2, 2007)

dsvilko said:


> What I would like to know is why does nobody use cooling fans when constructing high power led lights?


I have been thinking of this a lot lately, and started sketching on a design with a 40x40x10 mm 12V fan for a PC. I do think the noise would be annoying so I'm looking into how to control the fan speed based on temperature of the housing. The easy way is connecting the fan in parallel to the LEDs and let it run at the same voltage as the driver is feeding the MC-Es.This would increase fan speed as the leds are driven harder, but only slightly because of the nature of leds (small increase of Vf-> large increase of current).

The best thing would be a circuit that turned on the fan, when the housing temperature reached a preset limit..Are there any electronic guru's out there?

Geir


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

sorry i couldn`t resist


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

.... can`t wait till you get the Hipflex,.. 2.8A on strobe mode! now that makes me chuckle.

.......... troutie quote "my brother who is building a motorcycle Trike" 
Hey troutie, does he live nearby? is he a member of your local club? Silsden sewer rats MCChttp://sewerratsyorkshire.homestead.com/...
................Rally pics
they have a great "Get Ratted" rally every year up the road on Addingham moorside, i never miss it!
and, re your video clips, i know you got the cam from www.rfconcepts.co.uk but what do you use as the recording device?

.......... Cheers


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> .... can`t wait till you get the Hipflex,.. 2.8A on strobe mode! now that makes me chuckle.
> 
> .......... troutie quote "my brother who is building a motorcycle Trike"
> Hey troutie, does he live nearby? is he a member of your local club? Silsden sewer rats MCChttp://sewerratsyorkshire.homestead.com/...
> ...


Whoa Hendo slow down.
Yes My Bro usually goes to the sewer rats do , 
I have rode up there to see him a few times on the mtb in lycra that was fun .
trying to find him there . and I survived . 
he is called Haggis .
and he never ever finishes a build this was his last one

Gi us a shout next time

ref the cam I use a sony handycam with the helmet cam needs analogue av input .

which one is you on the pics .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

this is for Emu beam shots of the quad and triple both at 250 ma per die
also the third pic is my vans headlights on full .
funny how the leds pick up the fog and the car lights dont.

QUAD MCE M BIN WG @ 250 MA ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------TRIPLE MCE K BIN @ 250 MA










VW TRANSPORTER HEADLIGHTS ON MAIN BEAM .


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## SkUG (Feb 19, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks Skug
> get some piccys up we like pics


I will be honest, I've only got as far as the drawings (this is when i first wrote my first message on this forum! - gee about a year ago! too many car projects at the moment! ) haven't got around to actually building anything yet! - I've got a lump of aluminium and most of the other bits to finish. (still waiting for batteries from DX) 
I was going to put my buckpuck/connectors/switches underneath the light in a small box which the bar clamp mounts on, but my design was about 3 times the size of yours! (over compensating for the heat!)

I like the idea that the fins face the airflow, the circular design gives (in my opinion) the largest surface area facing the airflow and therefore should improve cooling (hey i'm no thermal engineer but it does look rather cool too!)

Great job - only one problem... looks like i will have copied you when I finally get around to making it 
oh well - great minds n all that 

Keep up the great work, you're an inspiration to the rest of us


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

SkUG said:


> I will be honest, I've only got as far as the drawings (this is when i first wrote my first message on this forum! - gee about a year ago! too many car projects at the moment! ) haven't got around to actually building anything yet! - I've got a lump of aluminium and most of the other bits to finish. (still waiting for batteries from DX)
> I was going to put my buckpuck/connectors/switches underneath the light in a small box which the bar clamp mounts on, but my design was about 3 times the size of yours! (over compensating for the heat!)
> 
> I like the idea that the fins face the airflow, the circular design gives (in my opinion) the largest surface area facing the airflow and therefore should improve cooling (hey i'm no thermal engineer but it does look rather cool too!)
> ...


Cheers Skug

Looking forward to seeing it built up soon then.

Another one of Trouties time lapse piccy thingys
I have accquired a bench power supply borrowed from a mate who wants to sell it 
And having got to grips with what to do . via a posting on here . thanks

It was time to ramp up the amps with the quad mce on the bars and see if the Trout theory for heat disipation using the bars and ali clamps was going to work .

First off but no pics I did ramp it up on my desk and it went from 12 c to 50 c in 2 minutes 
this is the internal temp approximately 3 mm from the dies 
This was a bit scary and doubt set in .

No more Trout drivel just the pics

https://s199.photobucket.com/flash/remix/player.swf?videoURL=https://vid199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/INSANE%20QUAD%20MCE/b7320c9d.pbr&hostname=stream199.photobucket.com


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Nice work, as always, Trout!

~37W and under 50C in still air ... You have a winner!
Taking the heat to the bars is the way to do it for the hi power apps I reckon.

Thanks for all your contributions Trout, always fun to read the MTBR light forums!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

If it's stoped at 50c then that should be fine, I'd back it off abit personally to be sure, alot of works gone into it.

What kinda battery pack are you using, 37watts is seriously going to draw some power.


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

Damn you all!!! Two months ago I was in search of a bike light and stumbled upon Achesalot's Triple Cree. I've spent countless nights reading your threads trying to gleam every possible tip and photo I could. I destroyed two buckpucks, several lenses, fried my retinas and lost most of skin off of my knuckles. $200+ later and I finally finished it, only to realize that Troutie has rendered my new light as useless as my old 15 watt Nightrider.... I either have to get a second job and forego my kids' college or give up night-riding and adventure racing. How can I keep up with this Lumen Cold War??? 

Awe, what the hell, it's only money.  

Great light Troutie. Any chance of getting that design in Auto Cad, so I can get one of my Aviation Contractors to built me one as a favor? 

SA

BTW, my MCE and XRE came today. I will start my second light this week.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> Nice work, as always, Trout!
> 
> ~37W and under 50C in still air ... You have a winner!
> Taking the heat to the bars is the way to do it for the hi power apps I reckon.
> ...


Cheers Steve 
I was pretty happy with the result .

Turveyd

I doubt it will ever see full power very often unless I need to warm my hands

All my batteries are 14.8 li ion 4400mah and my 18 v li ion 3000mah drill batteries .

Southern Adventurer

Thanks . You will have a great light with aches triple .

:lol::lol: Laughing at the auto cad bit . You would need the Vulcan mind transfer . 
these designs come out of my head and into the metal and evolve dynamically as metal is being removed. I have zero cad and drawing skills

best I could do would be photo`s with dimensions add .

for adventure racing you would be better off with the 6 XPE helmet light 
and less batteries


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

That XPE is tiny! Very light too. I will add that to my growing list. I guess I need to look at milling machines now. I wonder how many pints of blood I would have to sell..... Between Kayaks, bikes, surfboards and other gear, I guess I can always sneak in another light.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Southern Adventurer said:


> That XPE is tiny! Very light too. I will add that to my growing list. I guess I need to look at milling machines now. I wonder how many pints of blood I would have to sell..... Between Kayaks, bikes, surfboards and other gear, I guess I can always sneak in another light.


Ha Ha boys and their toys :thumbsup:

forget the milling machine just buy one of the cnc housings available soon.

on to this crazy light I am amazed by how good it is at very low current
now I have a new toy in the shop .
sadly there is no mains power in the woods so these shots have to be from my garage 
and with some light pollution .

mtbr settings again.

https://s199.photobucket.com/flash/remix/player.swf?videoURL=https://vid199.photobucket.com/albums/aa46/amticoman/INSANE%20QUAD%20MCE/d62180c3.pbr&hostname=stream199.photobucket.com


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

Southern Adventurer said:


> I guess I need to look at milling machines now.


That thought is also on my mind, but then I think about what the lamps would look like if I made them on the machine. I'm quite certain I would not be able to make lamps with that good finish. I know trouti in fact is a CNC machine disguised a a human. His mind just self program and out comes a new lamp.


troutie-mtb said:


> these designs come out of my head and into the metal


 Not really fair play. :nono:

Regarding the fog: It's probably a combination of high beam and cold white. Would have been interesting to see how a warm white led would perform in comparison with the cold.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> :lol::lol:
> You could say the same about any car / motorbike that is able to do 100mph plus
> The HipFlex driver is the throttle peddle So I can dial in any power level I wish to use.
> Yes it is insane , but so am I .
> ...


Hi, missing the prices in €uros 

Super nice job!!!!!!!!

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## czarny_kruk (Jan 23, 2008)

msxtr said:


> Hi, missing the prices in €uros


use Google

http://www.google.pl/search?q=257gbp+in+eur


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*whoo whoo its on its way*

As you all know I dont do waiting very well

But I dont need to it is on its way along side some of its Bro`s


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## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

Troutie,Cloggy and the other 1000lu plus boys better watch out!
You have found the holy grail of bike lights and are making Lupine,cateye etc etc look bloody stupid and rather overpriced!
They will be having a wipround in a minute for a hitman!
Look what happend to Keanu Reeves in that film chain reaction!
Cant make the big boys look bad and get away with it.
Tommo.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

They have been round my gaff and I had to tell that you were getting some Boom s
through your mail box tomorrow.

They gave up on me after there bullets turned away from the blinding lights


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## TOMMO (Dec 12, 2008)

LOL cheers mate!
Can they wait til i fit the Boom to me torch it might just cause them to flinch enough 
so i can get away!
Tommo.


----------



## milkyspit (Feb 4, 2009)

Troutie, very nice light! Quick question in case I missed it (sorry if so)... what are you using to power your setup?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

milkyspit said:


> Troutie, very nice light! Quick question in case I missed it (sorry if so)... what are you using to power your setup?


Thanks Milkyspit and welcome to the forum

No problems when the hipflex drops through the box 
I have a couple of options at the moment a 14.4 li ion 4.8ah 
or my Makita 18v li ion drill packs with the sandewiche shop adaptor .
it just fits in the bottle holder on the bike .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Hip Hip Hooray Flex*

Mr Postman has just dropped this through the door










so the insane mega death ray will live soon


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Well... lets see some beamshots already. JK 
I have a couple of the new makita 18v 3.0a batterys. How are you using them? are you taking the packs out of the casing or using them as is? They seem a little bulky as is


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> or my Makita 18v li ion drill packs with the sandewiche shop adaptor .
> it just fits in the bottle holder on the bike .


Here`s a link to the battery adapter *Makita dock*
now you have the option of using the battery for your lights or your drill
of course if you only have the batteries, chop em up and make a neat battery pack

Hip Hip Hooray Flex WOW thats a beast!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

We are ready to go when it gets dark for a test out in the wild


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Wow, just wow.!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> We are ready to go when it gets dark for a test out in the wild
> 
> [/IMG]


Oh goody, oh goody, oh goody (salty is rather excited)


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## ktronik (Dec 23, 2006)

:eekster: BEAMSHOTS!!!!!!! :eekster:


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

He could have just wandered out there at noon and taken some shots. Bet the quad light and full noon sun looks exactly the same.


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

Troutie, NASA called, they are looking for a new landing light for the Space Shuttle.... This latest creation should be able to illuminate most of the western hemisphere.  :yikes:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ktronik said:


> :eekster: BEAMSHOTS!!!!!!! :eekster:


I now need to join the local clubs night rides if only to wee in the shoes of the Betty owners ,

This little baby has serious lumen power but I think it also has a real quality of illumination
at the lower power settings , I can see I am going to enjoy this one along side the XPE helmet light.

The pics are 6 secs f4 as normal 
the Hipflex is set at 2800ma and multi mode so the 5 levels can be seen

My van is 200 metres away


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Looking awesome Mr T!! I can't keep up with all these photo's of yours for the website. You need to slow down for a day or two to let me catch up


----------



## whattingh (Jan 30, 2009)

I think anybody that ride in front of you is going to be cook if they are to close. Some sweet light. How much runtime do you get?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

......................Troutie, these beamshots are freakin awesome, truly insane!
i`ve been laughing like hell for a good 5 minutes!
well done mate :thumbsup: 
.

















.
.


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## .40AET (Jun 7, 2007)

That is just sick! Being able to light up 2 football fields is a tremendous amount of light. Keep up the good work!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Guys . It is truly an awesome bike light And I wonder if it may be at this moment 
in time be the worlds brightest bike light . 

What is the theretical lumen count must be close to 3000 ?


I wonder what would be possible using 16 XPE , similar lumen count, similar footprint but you could really taylor a beam with all those combinations to go at .


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

So _that's_ what that glow in the eastern sky was last night around midnight here!

You are a sick man, Mr. Trout....and I mean that in the best way :yesnod:

So...what's next? 

JZ


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

HipFlex,.... 1000mA, 1400mA, 2000mA, 2400mA or 2800mA 
mmm, troutie, look at post #11 when you had the nFlex hooked up at 1000ma
(this would equal the MaxFlex lowest setting)
in comparison to the latest shots, they should match,


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

No HHHendo 

It is Hipflex on 2800ma setting and the 5 levels of the multi mode 

but I will only be using duo mode as I dont like multi mode

Which I am not sure what the Ma is for each but 5 = 700 per led
and 1 = 50ma per led if I remember correctly 

I think the current halves with each level and the hi is max for that table and min is 50ma 

2800 - 1400 - 700- 350 - 50 


My Camera battery was going flat so that seemed the easiest way .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

JimZinVT said:


> So _that's_ what that glow in the eastern sky was last night around midnight here!
> 
> You are a sick man, Mr. Trout....and I mean that in the best way :yesnod:
> 
> ...


Whats next ? ?

going small is next and I have an idea but no budget for doing it but it does revisit a previous idea .

and also an idea for a bar light similar to the XPE helmet light but better for the bars

but they are only ideas at the moment.

The main priority now is to get the XPE housings done by Deesta and posted out 
and the builds done .


----------



## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Well done Trout, not only is it probably the brightest bike light but it also has a really good beam.

But are you already thinking of another ?



> I wonder what would be possible using 16 XPE , similar lumen count, similar footprint but you could really taylor a beam with all those combinations to go at .
> __________________


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I must be slipping I just realised I should have taken the triple MCE I put in Deestas housing with me for a 7mce shot also :madman:


----------



## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

The squirrels in the tree tops will no longer be able to sleep with that monster around. Nice.!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> The main priority now is to get the XPE housings done by Deesta and posted out and the builds done .


Saw them posted up on cutters site. Do they have a few in stock? or they all in work?


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Christ-on-a-bike! I've always put clear lenses in my riding glasses at night - think I'll need the full-on summer ones to go out with that sucker!

Respect!


----------



## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Amazing light from that light! 7MC-E would be borderline insane on a bike. Seems there will never be "enough" light for Troutie (I know the feeling, but to a much lesser degree)


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HuffyPuffy said:


> Amazing light from that light! 7MC-E would be borderline insane on a bike. Seems there will never be "enough" light for Troutie (I know the feeling, but to a much lesser degree)


You are correct it would be fun to do the 7 mce shots but to run them on the bike not good

I am more than happy with my set up now


----------



## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> You are correct it would be fun to do the 7 mce shots but to run them on the bike not good


7 is only boarderline insane, I would still like to see it


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Here it is after the second attempt at shooting some video The first was a complete failure 
due to crappy DC power connector .






It is a bit wobbly but does give a fair example of what it is like on the bike 
Shame the first attempt failed as it would have shown me flying off into the bushes


----------



## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Nice footage, suprised you would come off no excuse about not seeing anything at least...

Would of been interesting to see the reaction of a car had come the other way on the last bit. High on the road could be seriously dangerous.

The comparison between the flood of the mce and the spot of the xpe realy shows up a lot. Do you think the filming is exagerating this or is it matching how you see it yourself.

Ifor


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ifor said:


> Nice footage, suprised you would come off no excuse about not seeing anything at least...
> 
> Would of been interesting to see the reaction of a car had come the other way on the last bit. High on the road could be seriously dangerous.
> 
> ...


Pilot error for the off 

I allways use the helmet light on road then I have the option of pointing it away to the side 
or as a weapon for when they dont dip .

I would say the filming is understating the outputs and in real time it is brighter 
not like the still shots which are exagerating a tad .

Shame you have the bits for your quad mce . I would really have liked to compare an xpe 16 , someone will do it one day :devil: with the R3


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## rangeroy (Jul 12, 2008)

Very good troutie (whole of West Yorks lit up) have you still any of Deesta's housings left?


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

Fantastic! Any Heat issues? :madmax:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

rangeroy said:


> Very good troutie (whole of West Yorks lit up) have you still any of Deesta's housings left?


Cheers rangeroy
Not sure which you mean there is Deestas triple which he is selling or there is my XPE 6 er which Deesta is cnc ing for me .
Either way there are a few available I think Deesta has done a few spare ones and I ordered an extra 10 .

S Adventurer 
No heat issues at all on the bars and moving even slowly it was stone cold 
lots of issues when stopped if left on full . it would cook in 5 minutes . 
and the Hipflex is not in the right place to monitor the led temps I did a test and the led part got hotter than i wanted it to but the Hipflex did not trip and it is set to 50 dges

on low no problems at all moving or stopped


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

WOW thanks for the video clip troutie,
wayyyyy better than pics i reckon
hahaha just love that crazy strobe


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

I had a laugh at the video last night Troutie. You seemed to get a bit of glare / reflection in places - is that the camera unable to cope with the light?


----------



## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Cool video, thanks for posting it.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

WOW I had to remove the video from our 4x4 site as all 12 gig of bandwidth has gone I checked the hits and a huge amount were from MSXTR s spanish mates on a forum over there I will upload it to youtube tonite .


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> WOW I had to remove the video from our 4x4 site as all 12 gig of bandwidth has gone I checked the hits and a huge amount were from MSXTR s spanish mates on a forum over there I will upload it to youtube tonite .


:eekster::eekster::eekster:

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

msxtr said:


> :eekster::eekster::eekster:
> 
> Greetings - Saludos
> 
> msxtr


You will have to translate the whole thread for us now you have all my bandwidth

video now on youtube


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## Southern Adventurer (Jan 3, 2009)

I just dig it for the sound track. It has been in my head all day!


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## whattingh (Jan 30, 2009)

Nice vid.

Although it is sweet one can see in the video its some sweet light I'm guessing the video is not really doing it justice.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers guys 
the video is the other way from the still pics so in real life it is in the middle of the 2 .

when you hit hi it is stunning .and makes the helmet light redundant .
though my 2400ma packs dont last long


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## Aussie_Aaron (Aug 5, 2007)

Troutie,

I've skim read most fo this thread and what a great light job... however have you mentioned the battery time you get on these lights yet? Maybe just on your high/low options like in the video?

I'm thinking to try my lirst light build with a similar LED/driver/battery setup.

Cheers,
Aaron


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Aussie_Aaron said:


> Troutie,
> 
> I've skim read most fo this thread and what a great light job... however have you mentioned the battery time you get on these lights yet? Maybe just on your high/low options like in the video?
> 
> ...


Hi Aaron it draws nearly 3 amps on full so just over an hour on my 3600mah pack 
if I was mad enough to use full all the time .
one beautifull thing about it is the amount of light at low currents so fairly good runtimes can be achieved but then you still have the ability for the awesome if wanted.

There is going to be a mark 2 housing version coming in the future with the collaberation of Deesta and his cnc machines  just he does`nt know it yet.


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

I think I know it now.......:smilewinkgrin: :arf:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

WOW.

I've been avoiding all of these email notifications 'cause I just don't have the budget to build more lights but I gave in today and all I can say is WOW.

Again, WOW.

I had forgotten how good the body looks but the light output is just incredible. The beam pattern is so much better than our early attempts.

Damn you chris, you've got me thinking again:madman:


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## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

What´s the cost of this insane light + send it to Brazil?
There´s any battery pack for a longer ride using it at "full power"?

Bruno


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> Troutie:
> 
> What´s the cost of this insane light + send it to Brazil?
> There´s any battery pack for a longer ride using it at "full power"?
> ...


I am thinking about a redesign of the insane light and want to get together with steve for the cnc ing and help with the design.
I want to streamline it a little and improve the heatsinking and relocate the hipflex.as it does nt monitor the temp properly on the end.

so assuming the housing is about the same as the others

lets say for a ball park figure

housing = $85
hipflex = $35
4 mce = $110
4 optics = $ 20
mounts &
sundries= $ 50
anodising $ 8

insured shipping $15 ish

$ 323 ish 
plus a donation to the troutie/deesta beer fund for building it up

battery wise lets have some suggestions it draws about 2.5 amps on full .
having said that full is insane .


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

hipFlex max Vin 24v
so your options with lipo or li-ion
would be multiples of
5s cells (around 20v) or 4s cells (around 16v)
all that current will lead to voltage sag
my money is on 5s2p minimum
5s3p (20v 6.6Ah) if you have lots of R$


----------



## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Lots of money? Where???

As I ride alone i´d like to have "the best" light, but for more than one hour.

What´s the aprox weight of an Li-ion cell for 3 hour ride (i know it´s insane as the light is) at full power? And where I can buy it? Dealextreme?

ps: if part or all text is impossible to understand please tell me, my english is not as good as i think (i think).


----------



## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

This battery - http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2283 - can be used with the insane light?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Bruno 
first up your english is fine .

I now have a working multimeter so can test how much current it needs on each setting so will do that and then be in a position to say what battery is best.

I also have an 18 volt 3000mah drill battery so will test to see how long it runs from full to empty on full power.

Whoa if I rode alone at night I would also want the insane light to scare the night demons away .


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## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

I live in a small city (3500 people), nearby a national park, at the corner of my work place starts the road that cross the park. From here to the entrance i climb a hill that starts at 850m and finish at 1350m in only 6km, after 6:00pm there´s only moonlight or star lights. Old people tell stories about strange lights flying nearby the top of the moutains. Demons or not i must have light enough to see exactly what they are and come back as fast as i can if necessary  hehehe.
Seriously, there are lots of cliffs and rocks along this road and i like to "fly" back home (down hill) during the day, i´d like to try after sunset.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

What a fantastic commute to work I would be smiling all day and thinking about the return trip.
Brazil and National park must = a few scary animals too :yikes:


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

BrunoBB said:


> Old people tell stories about strange lights flying nearby the top of the moutains.


You can become one of the "strange lights flying nearby the top of the moutains"


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## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

I´m looking for a "insane battery" at http://www.batteryspace.com/ but i have one doubt, what´s the voltage (DC in) your set need?

Bruno


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> Troutie:
> 
> I´m looking for a "insane battery" at http://www.batteryspace.com/ but i have one doubt, what´s the voltage (DC in) your set need?
> 
> Bruno


I am running mine from a 3600mah 14.4 volt li ion pack which works ok untill the pack gets down to about 14 volts then it goes down hill fast.

ideally a 18 volt pack or a bigger 14.4 volt .
you dont have to have it on full there is plenty of light on 3 quarters power.

I just got a new milling machine so a redesign is under way for the insane quad .
I have a few ideas to try out ref optics and shape..
just waiting for the mailman to deliver a mystery package


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## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

This one, http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1399, looks like a little bit heavy (4,6lb) but it can provide 10 Ah or 144 wh. Do you think is enough?

I´ll wait for the "neo-insane" light.

Bruno


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hey BrunoBB

just take a look at theese:

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2946

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=4078

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3807


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

For 4 MC-Es a Li-Poly battery is a good choice. For my 4xMC-E I have 2x 14.4v 5Ah LiPoly and I plan to wire them in parallel for 3 h of max power.


----------



## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

WhiteDog:

The Waterbottle battery is not an option for me ´cause i use a real waterbottle. But the others are very interesting.

Zemike:

What´s the total weight of this set of batteries?

What will be the best solution, wire them in parallel or use one battery after the other?

Bruno


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK here are the power draw from a power supply at 15 volts .
with the Hipflex set for multimode .and 2800ma .

level 1 60 ma
level 2 290ma
level 3 570 ma
level 4 1210 ma
level 5 2670 ma 

and at 20 volts 

level 1 50 ma
level 2 220 ma
level 3 430 ma
level 4 920 ma
level 5 1970 ma

so it should give you a good indication on battery runtimes at various levels.

also as I turned the volts down it seemed to go out of regulation at about 13 volts ish.


----------



## jutny (Apr 25, 2008)

has anyone used the new li-ion drill batteries for lights?

I want to build something like this, asap.


----------



## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

jutny said:


> has anyone used the new li-ion drill batteries for lights?
> 
> I want to build something like this, asap.


Yea, I use the 18v / 3Ah Makita LTX with this adapter, but they are not cheap. I use mine for a couple quad XR-E lights though, not a quad MC-E. If you need a bigger battery there are some Rigid 24v or the old dewalt A123 packs which are 36v.


----------



## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> WhiteDog:
> What´s the total weight of this set of batteries?


Capacity: 5000mAh
Voltage: 4S1P / 4 Cell / 14.8v
Discharge: 20C Constant / 30C Burst
Weight: 503g (including wire, plug & shrink wrap)
Dimensions: 142x50x33mm

So total weight above 1 kg



BrunoBB said:


> What will be the best solution, wire them in parallel or use one battery after the other?


Wire them in parallel ONLY.


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

If any of you are in the UK please let me quote you before you go assembling youre own batteries. Remember if, no 'when' one of youre homebrew batteries goes pop you'll be slagging off Li-Ion as thats whats been done in the past. Li-Ion batteries are perfectly safe in the right hands.

For reference when building parallel batteries up, firstly make sure they have bypass diodes fitted to 'each' battery and also ensure they ALL have the same state of charge before connecting and using.

Sorry for rant, but just standing up for Li-ion


----------



## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Zemike:

When i asked if it was better to use one after the other i wasn´t thinking to wire them in series, just to use one alone and after it´s voltage is too low, use the other.
I´d like to know if this use is better than wire them in parallel and use them at the same time.

Bruno


----------



## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> I´d like to know if this use is better than wire them in parallel and use them at the same time.


Yes. But there is a small problem with Deans connectors - they are very hard to unplug.


----------



## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

Troutie:

Can you tell us something about the insane light v.2.0? :ihih: Photos of the new layout? maybe a scratch on a used napkin?  

Bruno


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> Troutie:
> 
> Can you tell us something about the insane light v.2.0? :ihih: Photos of the new layout? maybe a scratch on a used napkin?
> 
> Bruno


I am waiting for some optics to arrive then it will start to take shape if the optics do the biz...


----------



## BrunoBB (Mar 12, 2009)

To all:

I don´t know if i should post it here but i couldn´t find any better place.

As slower you ride (like uphill), less steady the handbar became, so the light goes from one side of the road to the other, leaving the track in the dark. Anyone has ever tried to put an extra light at the frame?

Bruno


----------



## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

BrunoBB said:


> Anyone has ever tried to put an extra light at the frame?


I have thought about that before, but never tried it. It's not really a problem if you have a light on your helmet and on your bars.

Easy enough to strap a torch to your headtube and give it a try.

JZ


----------



## amarxyz (May 17, 2009)

Troutie did you get my email regarding the light?


----------



## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

I want to use 3 MCE's with a HIPFLEX driver. The problem that im having is that i have them on a star board wired in series. Is this recomended? Will it also work?


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

anthemx1 said:


> I want to use 3 MCE's with a HIPFLEX driver. The problem that im having is that i have them on a star board wired in series. Is this recomended? Will it also work?


Wire the stars in parallel and set the hipFlex to 2100mA. Each star will run at 700mA. It would be a good idea to check the Vf of each star to see if they are very close to each other. In a parallel circuit, the LED with the lowest Vf will run at the highest current. Too much mismatch can result in a burned out star.


----------



## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

My stars are wired in series(was the only ones available) Thinking of scraping of the tracks on the star and soldering the leggs of the mce together for parallel?


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> soldering the legs of the mce together for parallel


not recommended as its virtually irreversible


> My stars are wired in series


is there 4 solder pads or 8?


----------



## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

Only 4 pads


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

anthemx1 said:


> My stars are wired in series(was the only ones available) Thinking of scraping of the tracks on the star and soldering the leggs of the mce together for parallel?


Sorry, I didn't explain thoroughly. What I meant was to wire the stars to each other in parallel. In other words, connect all the + connections to each other and then connect all the - connections to each other. This would be referred to as a 3 parallel strings of 4 series LEDs. The Vf will be determined by the 4 series string and the current will be divided "equally" between the parallel strings. The reason I quoted "equally" is that parallel LED circuits will flow different currents if the Vf is not closely matched.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

anthemx1 said:


> Only 4 pads


you can`t solder the legs together then, as the traces run under and around the emmiter
soldering the legs together would just cause a heap of short circuits
only solution would be to lift the legs off the base first (good luck!!! )


----------



## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

Will the forward voltage then be 12.8v? Will this still be OK if i want to run from a 11.1v battery? Thanks for all the info so far!


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Just for understanding: if i have 3 MCE's which are wired in series and an hipflex set at 2800mA and i wire the MCE's in parallel to each other then i get:

total Vf: 12.5v or close to this
A: 933mA to each led -> wired in series so each die will get the 933mah??


----------



## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

anthemx1 said:


> Will the forward voltage then be 12.8v? Will this still be OK if i want to run from a 11.1v battery? Thanks for all the info so far!


if you are using an hipflex then this will be not ok!!
Hipflex is an buck converter - this means that the input voltage must be higher than the output voltage!

So you need at least an 4s battery but you may shorten your runntime when the battery gets emty and the battery voltage dropps under your vf of the leds!

to get the full runntime i would stick to an 5s battery:eekster:


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## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

The way I understand it is that each star will receive 933ma but each die(there is 4 per star) will receive only 233ma


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

the stars are internally connected in series, so the i assume that each die will also get the 933mA but you need a vf of ~12,5V


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Whitedog1 said:


> the stars are internally connected in series, so the i assume that each die will also get the 933mA but you need a vf of ~12,5V


Correct, Each die will see 933 mA. i.e it will be @#(*ing bright.

Driving an MCE that hard will produce considerable amounts of heat and the extra light produced compared to 700mA (2100mA setting on hipflex) may not be worth the trade off in efficiency.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

So what do you think is better: heatwise and outputwise

3 MCE Stars in series wired parallel to the hipflex at 2.8A ~933mA per Die

or: 4 MCE Stars in series wired parallel to the hipflex at 2.8A ~700mA per Die

i rally dont know which setup to go with!


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Whitedog1 said:


> So what do you think is better: heatwise and outputwise
> 
> 3 MCE Stars in series wired parallel to the hipflex at 2.8A ~933mA per Die
> 
> ...


4 MCE at 2.8 A would be brighter and more efficient in terms of lumens per watt.

Personally, I would just choose a lower output setting on the hipflex and stick to the 3 MCE as they will be plenty bright.

Bear in mind that the cree data sheet only rates the MCE to 700mA, so you would be "overdriving" at 933mA. There have been quite a few people who have successfully run them at 1 amp, however you need a very good thermal path so that you don't burn them out.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

thanks for that - makes me think again how much output i will need :madman: 

i have never seen an MCE or even an multi MCE setup in real, so i dont really know how bright thy are!

I ride with an Hope Vision4 and an Romisen RC-T5(4xXRE for throw) on the bars!
So a 3xMCE at 700mA should be a little bit brighter i think?


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Whitedog1 said:


> thanks for that - makes me think again how much output i will need :madman:
> 
> i have never seen an MCE or even an multi MCE setup in real, so i dont really know how bright thy are!
> 
> ...


I have found that the brightness difference is hard to describe. Here is my take on it.

If you had an object 20m away illuminated by an MCE, or the same object illuminated by an XRE, they will appear equally as bright. The difference is the "wall" of light that MCE's give. They throw a very wide beam so while they have very high output numbers, it is spread over a larger area. The XRE will be much more "spotty" so you don't get the same degree of peripheral vision.

I love riding with MCE's as the floody beam means that handle bar wobbles don't give the "dancing fairy" effect as the light dances around across the trail. The beam is so wide that small changes of the handle bar angle don't really matter as the trail ahead is always lit by the beam.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Personally, I would just choose a lower output setting on the hipflex and stick to the 3 MCE as they will be plenty bright.


+1 on this. Of course everyone has their own feelings on how much light they need. I am comfortable riding XC with a single MC-E with Ledil CMC SS optics on all but fast downhill sections of trail. Because of that, I am changing one of my lights over to a Fraen reflector for a bit more throw. I'll probably end up with a dual MC-E with Fraen combo, though the Ledil Iris looks good as well.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Whitedog1 said:


> So a 3xMCE at 700mA should be a little bit brighter i think?


What? ......... you haven`t checked out the vid in my sig line?? 

DStar Altair LED light vid #1

3 x m bin [email protected] each die


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> What? ......... you haven`t checked out the vid in my sig line??
> 
> DStar Altair LED light vid #1
> 
> 3 x m bin [email protected] each die


 no worry Hendo, i viewed your video right after you postet it!!
The only thing is that i have no video of my light setup (made with your camera) to compare :madman:

On the other hand, I like the 3xMCE DStar anyway:eekster:


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## grassie (Jun 5, 2009)

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum. Where do you recommend that I should buy the MC-E and Ledil optics. I'm in South Africa and i need a supplier that ships out here.


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## nixorz (Apr 23, 2009)

So where can I buy one of these?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

have a look round at troutie.com website
... http://www.troutie.com/troutelights2.html


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## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

I bought the mce's from altech in jhb it was serie wired stars though driver from cutter in aus(have not received it yet)


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## grassie (Jun 5, 2009)

anthemx1 said:


> I bought the mce's from altech in jhb it was serie wired stars though driver from cutter in aus(have not received it yet)


Hi Anthemx1, I ordered me LED'S from Cutters a week ago, I am waiting for George to email me for a hipflex driver. You also making a quad light?


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## anthemx1 (May 2, 2009)

I made a 3 LED light. Works like a dream. Going to experiment with different angle lenses to fine tune.


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## grassie (Jun 5, 2009)

Ok, so I can bother you if I have problems connecting the lot?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*insane MK 2*

Double post sorry


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Looking good Mr T:thumbsup: 
Could it be possible to mount the switch on the top of the rear piece and have a fitting for the stem plate or is it designed to use the bars as a heatsink??


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*insane MK 2*

After a shed load of emails enquireing about the quad MCE which was made at the time just to see if it would work I am having a go at a MK 2 version .
now this design is evolving and is being built using bits of aluminium I have lying around so I am trying to make it fit the raw materials as apposed to making a design and using fresh ali stock .

so here are a few pics of the beasty so far . 












































I have got the basics sorted like the led mount/ optics and Hipflex house 
also the bar mounting is under way ,
The housing is made from 2 bits of 44.5 mm diameter ali bar and the next step I am a bit stumped as to the best / asthetic design for some fins and shaping to make it work well and shed the heat quickly and look good also


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Chris the simplicity of your designs / ideas never ceases to amaze me.

I would just run "fins" top, bottom and back to a depth that just left 1 or 2 mm above below and behind the LED / optic cut out. This will give you a nice contrast between the curved outer shape and the flat bottoms to the grooves.

Nice work again, but where is your power coming in?


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

WoW!!! What an excellent MK2 Design!! :thumbsup:
This light will be the ONE for this winter!!  

Just 2 thoughts:

1: It looks like it is designed to mount the bare mc-e directly to the housing!
Wouldn't it be easier for the assemly to take the MC-E on stars?

2: Does the housing need an ALU Bar to help get the heat away?
It would be great if the housing can be designed that it gets rid of the heat itself without 
needing the bar as a heatsink - Cause many ride with carbon bars (i assume this won't 
be a good heatsink) 

I think the fins can be just as emu26 said! that would look great!
But i will leave more than 2mm for the baseplate to spread the heat more quickly!
My thought is to have at least 7mm under the leds....

Ok, now i ran out of words looking another time at this nice design!!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: 

So, I'm in for one the time it is finished!

Edith: just an idea:

for those guys who like more throw:
Would it be possible to replace 2 MC-E's (lets say the inner2) with 2 4up XP-G (or XP-E) boards?
They are 25mm in Diameter i think!
Otherwise stick to the 3up board that is 20mm in diameter!!!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Stu :thumbsup: I have sat and stared at it for ages now instead of just jumping in 
and it looks like your suggestion is the one .

Hi Whitedog 
1 -you are correct with the led mount I like it this way and find it easier than using stars 
with the CMC optics and holders.

2 - I guess with the extra metal and surface area in the top half of the mounts then carbon bars may be ok , the torch folks on CPF even use your hand as part of the cooling .
but with the hipflex now in the middle it can perform its thermal duties better .
:crazy: and only the insane would want to run it of full except for fast downhills :crazy:



> for those guys who like more throw:
> Would it be possible to replace 2 MC-E's (lets say the inner2) with 2 4up XP-G (or XP-E) boards?
> They are 25mm in Diameter i think!
> Otherwise stick to the 3up board that is 20mm in diameter!!!


Yes I guess you could you would have to go with 8 xpes to keep the driver happy .

or just build it with 16 xpes :idea:


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

xpe's, no be patient and go 16 xpg's

Now that might be the light finally bright enough for my cheapy camera


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> 2 - I guess with the extra metal and surface area in the top half of the mounts then carbon bars may be ok , the torch folks on CPF even use your hand as part of the cooling .
> but with the hipflex now in the middle it can perform its thermal duties better .
> :crazy: and only the insane would want to run it of full except for fast downhills :crazy:


Let's say it is a must have for me that it works with carbon bars! :cryin: 
I habe an ALU Bar on my MTB and an carbon Bar on my roadbike!

Anyway it is as you said: only the insane will run it on full except for fast downhills!! :drumroll:

i think even the low setting will be mor than enough for uphill :band:


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## zemike (Sep 3, 2007)

I think that the rear cone is worthless in terms of cooling, so why not make it plastic?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

zemike said:


> I think that the rear cone is worthless in terms of cooling, so why not make it plastic?


The extra mass has to help in the slow bits.

Troutie some of the commercial lights run shrouds over the fins. Increases the pressure between the fins and hence the cooling(in theory).


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

znomit said:


> The extra mass has to help in the slow bits.
> 
> Troutie some of the commercial lights run shrouds over the fins. Increases the pressure between the fins and hence the cooling(in theory).


hmmm.. quite a good suggestion!

I think theese commercial light needs the shroud to duct the air through the fins because the fins are not directly in the airflow!

In Trouties design the fins will be in the airflow!!

On the other hand: a shroud over such a beautiful (pre)design NO :nono:


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

I think the shroud would help while in motion but might actually slow the cooling while stopped. (I'm no engineer, just a guess.)

JZ


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

zemike said:


> I think that the rear cone is worthless in terms of cooling, so why not make it plastic?


I disagree the rear cone is to house the hipflex / switch / power input . it also has a very good junction to the main houseing so will get some conducted heat and every little bit helps . besides I dont like plastic it sort of looks plasticy 

I dont agree with the shroud approach as we all know even the worst designed lights stay cool when moving it is as JimZin has just said when stopped the problem arises.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I suspect that the shrouding on commercial lights is the result of a product liability lawyer looking at exposed fins and knowing the lawsuits that would arise if someone got cut on the fins. The designers then need to make the shroud look cool and the marketing guys dream up some BS as to how they are a "feature".


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Znomit got me a thinking here and not sure if it is good but would like some opinions 
I got a bit of scrap and tested it out to see if it is possible

As it is impossible to start a drill on a round and acute angle I milled it out first with a 8mm ball end cutter thinking it would then form a scoop for the holes .


















then after i had cleaned it up a bit the back looked pretty nifty and kept the smooth lines 
so might try and get that effect from the front and then continue the back with fins to match where the holes exit so we get the good forced air cooling and also the convection 
cooling when stopped . Or am I just a lunatic


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

*'monica*


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm not sold on the idea of holes, no matter how good they look.

do some surface area calcs and see if you get more are with holes, you may as you are keeping the surface area above that you loose with fins. My dislike of them is that hot air rises and when you are stopped the hot air in the holes can't rise, it can only go out through the ends which, in my mind atleast, will slow the cooling process


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Agree with emu......as with shrouded fins, probably helps in motion, hurts when stopped.

JZ


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

Mk2 looks the goods Troutie :thumbsup: 

Would some small vent holes drilled in from the top at 45degree into the larger forward facing vents allow hot air to escape when stopped? 

Maybe make two housings, one with fins and one with the vent holes and run some tests on what performs best. This new designs would look good either way so for me its function over form.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Argh now I am even more confused than before 
I guess I could try the holes on the top there will be fins or slots at the back and underneath and I could then machine off the top of the holes to leave T shaped fins on top 
would have to unsharpen the edges of the T to keep health and safety happy


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hmmmm.. a nice idea!! i think a lot more smaller holes will increast the surface area massively! (look at recuperator's or KAT's from Cars)

Troutie is it possible to see a sample of normal fins at this design? just for comparison...:eekster:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

JimZinVT said:


> Agree with emu......as with shrouded fins, probably helps in motion, hurts when stopped.
> 
> JZ


Depends on how you go about it. The top fins do little when stopped. The rear fins do little when moving.

So the scoop should increase air pressure to the top fins, and direct it down through the rear. And when stopped the air rising through the rear fins should be directed out the front.

Personally I think cooling when stopped is pointless because you probably don't need 2000lm at that point.


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

Agreed, I do a weekly group night ride, longest we stop trail side is 5-10 minutes to regroup before heading off again. Then when we reach the destination we search for fire wood for say another 5 -10 minutes. Over complicating the design will most likely result in a lot more machine work and that will add time and cost.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

ozlongboarder said:


> Over complicating the design will most likely result in a lot more machine work and that will add time and cost.


my words!! normal fins will do their job!!

heat is spread equally inside the housing - there is not much difference in heat going up or down in the housing:eekster:


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

*holes or slots?*

I like the idea of holes drilled through the housing, not for any scientific reasons, just that it looks good

In marketing, Product Differentiation is what every company do. " How can we make our product stand out from the crowd?"

In the lab, there might be slight thermal differences between the housing with slots and the one with holes, but in the real world, peddling along a trail, air movement in all directions who will be able to measure these differences?

Trout, go for it:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok I went for it and jumped in with the drill .
This will be certainly a one off as I would not want to make another one with out CNC help
but it has been fun doing it .and it might be one for the Fugly thread.

sorry more pics


















nearly done just needs a bit of tidying up and off to the anodisers


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Ok I went for it and jumped in with the drill .
> This will be certainly a one off as I would not want to make another one with out CNC help
> but it has been fun doing it .and it might be one for the Fugly thread.


I realy realy like the look of that. Nothing at all for the Fugly thread there.


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## bumphumper (Jan 8, 2009)

Looks really smart, glad you persevered with the drilling!


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

looks good troutie!! :thumbsup: 

do you add fins at the bottom also?

would it be possible to offer a second version for 4x the 3up XPG round boards?
Should work perfectly with the hipflex - so you just need to adjust the mounting area for the leds (i assume) :idea: 

So we would get a monster flood light with the mc-e (cause there is no real spot optic in this size) 

and an monster light with adjustable beam with the Xp-g!?


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## Joshp82 (Apr 1, 2009)

I really like your light Troutie. ive been toying with some ideas trying to get the air in and around the back of the LED. once I have them drawn up i'll share


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Troutie, didn't notice that you had finished it until now. That is far from fugly, I think it's a very good design.

Where do you get your anodising done?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Whitedog1 said:


> looks good troutie!! :thumbsup:
> 
> do you add fins at the bottom also?
> 
> ...


Yes fins on the bottom too in facy anywhere I can remove metal and put fins I have tried










The Quad - Triple XPG has been floating around in the head for a while now 
could be a real good one as the optic cavity does not need to be as deep 
I my mind I see a quad triple XPE as a better light than the Quad MCE with 4 less leds 
and swop to XPG and wow 4100 lumens maybe too much .

Cheers Yetty 
there is an Anodisers quite local and he is a real nice guy who does it real cheap 
no minimum order but fancy colours I have to wait till he is doing a run on that colour .
If you want some doing I will take it in to him .


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

> Cheers Yetty
> there is an Anodisers quite local and he is a real nice guy who does it real cheap
> no minimum order but fancy colours I have to wait till he is doing a run on that colour .
> If you want some doing I will take it in to him .


:thumbsup:


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

So is this a production prototype Mr T or is this you filling in time until the XPG arrives? I could be interested in adding a trout light to the bars!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> So is this a production prototype Mr T or is this you filling in time until the XPG arrives? I could be interested in adding a trout light to the bars!


No this is a one off to use up my last 4 MCE s and will be for sale when it is finished .
Going to get it anodised first .

Yep you have got it right Just messing till the new stuff is out:smilewinkgrin:


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