# Manitou Mastodon?



## Dnek1999 (Apr 15, 2014)

I've heard that Treks are being spec'd with this new fork from Manitou. Has anyone heard any details?


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

Not yet, but interested and it was only a matter of time. I guess Fox will have something eventually


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Dnek1999 said:


> I've heard that Treks are being spec'd with this new fork from Manitou. Has anyone heard any details?


Will be released at Sea Otter in April.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Dnek1999 said:


> I've heard that Treks are being spec'd with this new fork from Manitou. Has anyone heard any details?


34mm and fits the 4.5"x27.5"


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

This is all I could dig up! 

http://www.apopkapostcardshoppe.com...egory_id=2740&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=71

Skeleton currently in progress....


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

sure, the minute i finally break down and buy a fork, another one hits the market...


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

I hope Manitou does this fork right! If its anything like its star lineup...the Mattoc, Dorado, Minute and the fork I run now, the Marvel, it should be real good! Wondering how different it will be from their Magnum fork, other than wider for fat tires? More travel would be a great start along with a 150mm axle. :thumbsup:

http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-marvel-pro-expert-2015-a-988106.html

https://www.manitoumtb.com/products/forks/


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

As mentioned above, wait and see until Sea Otter


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

The tire clearance is supposed to be "more than RS Bluto".


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I'm hoping it has fatter stanchions than Bluto.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> sure, the minute i finally break down and buy a fork, another one hits the market...


hmmmm...I have a BNIB Bluto to install too...maybe I will wait it out.

a wider version of the Magnum? The Magnum was factory on the Stache but it's pretty expensive aftermarket.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Guitar Ted said:


> The tire clearance is supposed to be "more than RS Bluto".


Obvious if it fits the 27.5x4.5" tire.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

As far as a name for a fat fork goes, "Mastadon" wins, hands-down. 

Looking forward to seeing more on this one. So far, the other options have left me a little meh.


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## rth009 (May 20, 2010)

at least skip to the rippin guitar solo at 2:15


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Will be released at Sea Otter in April.


Which is next month!


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Curious to see this thing and hope it is 34mm. Nice name though!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

i hope it clears snowshoe 2xl tires. ill find out at sea otter


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

solarplex said:


> 34mm and fits the 4.5"x27.5"


As posted and quoted from earlier in the thread, it does have 34mm stanchions according to the Trek info I've seen.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Guitar Ted said:


> As posted and quoted from earlier in the thread, it does have 34mm stanchions according to the Trek info I've seen.


can you share a link?


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

He would have to kill you


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MozFat said:


> He would have to kill you


^ wut he said 

You gotta wait for the April release at Sea Otter, that's the way it works, keep the secret, build the excitement, then BOOM!

I got Manitou on my Christmas list, maybe I'll send chocolates


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

34mm stanchions. clears 5.2 tires. 80-140mm travel would be awsome.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

akacoke said:


> 34mm stanchions. clears 5.2 tires. 80-140mm travel would be awsome.


Yes.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

and 2.0lbs


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## BobShort (Jun 29, 2006)

akacoke said:


> 34mm stanchions. clears 5.2 tires. 80-140mm travel would be awsome.


And seals that don't blow up in the cold...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It'll be a great fork because it doesn't take much to do better than what we have.

I'm not a Trek fan boy, but big buying power has it's benefits.

This is the fork we've been waiting for, hopefully more companies will follow suit.

I'll take two please, 120mm and 140mm


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> It'll be a great fork because it doesn't take much to do better than what we have.
> 
> I'm not a Trek fan boy, but big buying power has it's benefits.
> 
> ...


Come' on Ben. You'll ride it for a while and then it it'll either be too flexy for your new tandem or too heavy for your Beargrease and you'll be wanting something better


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> It'll be a great fork because it doesn't take much to do better than what we have.





Nurse Ben said:


> I just got back from BC, I used all of my suspension, over and over, about ever fifteen to twenty feet down the trail! If I'd had a Bluto I would have skipped the advanced trails, but with the Wren I hung with the big boys/girl.
> 
> The Wren is a solid fork, no real weaknesses, I'm not even thinking about the loose steerer. Front end wiggle is there, but you can only notice it when the bike is in a stand, on the trail it is a non issue; typical inverted fork.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

GiantTurd said:


> Guy I ride with has the 29+ Manipou fork, we have been riding for over 30 years, and he claims it is the best fork he has ever had. Pretty excited to get a fat one (3 in fact). Before that we both thought the Marzocchi Ti 44 140mm 29er fork was excellent and what we used as a benchmark.


Current Manitou forks are both awesome and underrated. Funky thru-axle turns some people off, but what _one_ fork works for everybody?


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## Kelly Maszk (Dec 6, 2005)

Saw two in the wild here in WI last week. They were going past me the other way. Didn't realize what I was seeing at first. Looked like they had 5 inch tires and since they were Hayes employees, thinking they were riding Mulefuts - so at least 80 wide rims and there was a lot of space around the fork.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I love threads like this, so much redirected emotion, it's almost TGResque.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Paochow said:


> Come' on Ben. You'll ride it for a while and then it it'll either be too flexy for your new tandem or too heavy for your Beargrease and you'll be wanting something better


Beargrease and tandem are sold. Wren forks are long gone. Haven't you been following my feed?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> ...it's almost TGResque.


Bonus points.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Beargrease and tandem are sold. Wren forks are long gone. Haven't you been following my feed?


You have a blog?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Paochow said:


> You have a blog?


Sure, doesn't everyone? ; )


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

It's all about Myspace come on guys, get with the times.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

This new Manitou will probably be OEM only for now...just like the RS Pike and Yari for 29+...


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

mohrgan said:


> This new Manitou will probably be OEM only for now...just like the RS Pike and Yari for 29+...


I'm betting ( hoping!) not, they rolled out the Plus Magnums to the aftermarket crowd pretty quickly.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

nitrousjunky said:


> I'm betting ( hoping!) not, they rolled out the Plus Magnums to the aftermarket crowd pretty quickly.


You're probably right! I just get soured on "vaporware".


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

cant wait for these forks to come out.

i hope they have black stanchions


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

akacoke said:


> cant wait for these forks to come out.
> 
> i hope they have black stanchions


Black stanchions are important? Seriously?

I feel a headache coming on....


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Black stanchions are important? Seriously?
> 
> I feel a headache coming on....


of course its important. its all about the color way


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## Tenafly_bike (Nov 1, 2016)

*Extinct*

Didnt the Mastodons go extinct?



Dnek1999 said:


> I've heard that Treks are being spec'd with this new fork from Manitou. Has anyone heard any details?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The suspension guys at the Sedona mtb fest kept hinting strongly about "another" fork offering coming up. Even the RockShox guys were starting to hint at a fat Pike, though that one sounded longer off.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Harold said:


> The suspension guys at the Sedona mtb fest kept hinting strongly about "another" fork offering coming up. Even the RockShox guys were starting to hint at a fat Pike, though that one sounded longer off.


Ooooh, choices, I like choices!


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

I saw it in person at Winterbike up in Burke VT this year. Comfortably held a 2xl.
The guy riding it said it would blow through it's travel pretty easily - which is what I found with the Manitou Minute 29 fork I had a few years ago. Maybe that can be fixed with some volume adjustment some how. Looked good, and super wide.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

mattgVT said:


> The guy riding it said it would blow through it's travel pretty easily


First samples did this. Engineers immediately noticed it. Already been addressed.


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## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

This thread is giving me wood.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

Good thing I just sold a new in the box Bluto! My Lauf Carbonara may be the next to go...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mattgVT said:


> I saw it in person at Winterbike up in Burke VT this year. Comfortably held a 2xl.
> The guy riding it said it would blow through it's travel pretty easily - which is what I found with the Manitou Minute 29 fork I had a few years ago. Maybe that can be fixed with some volume adjustment some how. Looked good, and super wide.


The abs+ and mc² dampers they use are easily revalved. Manitou even publish the dyno charts and sell the shim kits.

The 34mm forks also have spacer (iva) systems or third air chamber kits (irt) which drop in the top.

Happiness is only half an hour away. Maybe 1.5 hours if you need a firmer MARS spring in the minute as you need to drop the lowers off to reach that.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Yeah, i talked to a guy who live 5 mins from manitou HQ he test rode it. he said it was awesome. he cant tell me anything more. lol


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

to add more fuel to the fire:

just got off the phone with a manufacturer regarding tech questions on a frame. we started talking about suspension fork compatibility, and he inadvertently dropped "mastodon" into the conversation. i asked him what he knew, and he started saying it is bigger then previous forks and may have clearance issues on some frames. i then pressed him for more info, and he then said he knew nothing...


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## enemy1 (Nov 2, 2008)

Great that new fat forks are made.

Is this somehow related ?:


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

enemy1 said:


> Great that new fat forks are made.
> 
> Is this somehow related ?:


Wow, great find.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Boooo lol terrible link


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## ttakata73 (Feb 9, 2012)

Sorry, spoiler hint.
Hahaha, that link was funny, but I closed it in 2 seconds.
Strange how the mind can remember music so easily.
Now I will have that song running through my head for days.


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## enemy1 (Nov 2, 2008)

To my defense I saw the link on Sharks' myspace...


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## hello-dirt (Feb 11, 2009)

*Go to your trek dealer*



akacoke said:


> 34mm stanchions. clears 5.2 tires. 80-140mm travel would be awsome.


My trek dealer showed me the new Farley ex 9.8 and it comes with the Manitou Mastodon forks. The 8 does not. No specs were given though, except the stanchions are 34 mm.


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## ninjatarian (Apr 26, 2008)

Sorry for the quality


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Here ya go guys. Gotta warn you though. This thing is related to bigfoot and we all know how well bigfoot photographs!









We'll try to get some stuff up on Instagram too: https://www.instagram.com/shockcraftsuspension/


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's out of the bag, boom!

So I have a Bluto for sale, anyone?

It'll probably fetch $25....


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## sryanak (Aug 9, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's out of the bag, boom!
> 
> So I have a Bluto for sale, anyone?
> 
> It'll probably fetch $25....


I'll give you $25.00 for it!


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## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who liked the Bluto. Mine worked great.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

litespeedaddict said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who liked the Bluto. Mine worked great.


yeah i was fine with it. I just bought another Bluto for my Farley. I had one previously on my Mayor.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Was going to buy a Bluto but now I'll play the waiting game.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

litespeedaddict said:


> Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who liked the Bluto. Mine worked great.


Good bit happier with my A3 Bluto RCT3 than I was with my A1 Bluto RL. Could be stiffer though.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

Is it 153mm Boost Plus Fat rear disc front spacing?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Co-opski said:


> Is it 153mm Boost Plus Fat rear disc front spacing?


Die!


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## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

nitrousjunky said:


> Good bit happier with my A3 Bluto RCT3 than I was with my A1 Bluto RL. Could be stiffer though.


Mine didn't come to life until the mechanic installed the cold weather seal kit and smeared some slick honey in it somewhere, and added the correct amount of oil. I knew after the first curb it was a whole new ball game. But yeah, it ain't gonna win any awards, but I always thought it was way better than people gave it credit for to.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

Jayem said:


> Die!


Come on Jay. It would not be fat biking if they didn't change the standard on us now. Don't worry Problem Solvers and Wolftooth will make an adapters.


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## travisjgood (Apr 30, 2012)

Any word on msrp?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

travisjgood said:


> Any word on msrp?


Sea Otter will have the details. April 22-23.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

travisjgood said:


> Any word on msrp?


If it does all the things they claim; 80-150mm travel, 34mm stanchions, good damping, etc... It'll be worth whatever Manitou is asking.

I can use the $25 from my Bluto to cover some the cost


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

150mm front spacing I hope. It looks like it but can someone confirm?


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Sea Otter will have the details. April 22-23.


Considering the last line... I agree....

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-mastodon-taipei-cycle-show.html


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## JCHKeys (Dec 10, 2004)

I love my Wren, currently set at 140mm... but at least there are choices between the funky inverted monster and the wet noodle Bluto...


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)




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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Dougal said:


> Wow, great find.


Is that seriously the video for that song? That was funny as hell. I feel slightly less manly having watched it though.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What is wrong with Fox... make a dang Fat bike fork. A 36 with 140mm travel would be the ticket. I've never had a Manitou I liked. I hope this is a good fork regardless.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Paochow said:


> View attachment 1128233


That seems whacked as ****, the MC2 has the ABS+ knob and the ABS+ has the MC2 knob? Maybe the tapewall version with the cartridge damper is 200g heavier, but that seems suspect too. And they don't even get HBO.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

ntm1973 said:


> 150mm front spacing I hope. It looks like it but can someone confirm?


why would it be anything but 150?

If the manufacturers have settled on anything...it's that.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> That seems whacked as ****, the MC2 has the ABS+ knob and the ABS+ has the MC2 knob? Maybe the tapewall version with the cartridge damper is 200g heavier, but that seems suspect too. And they don't even get HBO.


That sheet has a lot of errors. Just wait until Sea-Otter.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> That sheet has a lot of errors. Just wait until Sea-Otter.


All that matters is the delivery date.

Based on what I've seen and heard, I'd buy the Pro version today.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

take my money now!


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Subscribing

A really good fork and great tires in the 3.5-3.8 range on carbon rims on a dually "fat bike" is going to be the magical unicorn rainbow carpet ride. We're gonna look at 2.8s and call them skinny.

Trek is going in the right direction with the 27.5s and lowering/stiffening the sidewalls.


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## PoshJosh (Mar 30, 2007)

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/03/2...e-fork-masters-the-cold-mattoc-goes-pro-more/


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## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

josh8 said:


> https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/03/2...e-fork-masters-the-cold-mattoc-goes-pro-more/


Thanks (and to everyone else who's posted news); keep the info coming, folks! Can't wait to hear more about this once extinct mammal.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

Hats off to Maintou! Looks like the same tech as Magnum (Mattoc). I put a Magnum Pro on my Krampus about a year ago and have been very happy with it. Bit of a learning curve on the adjustments, but other than that it is a great fork.


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## Alain2 (Jan 19, 2015)

I need that fork for this coming summer. I had a Bluto before and hated it so now I'm riding my solid fork.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

any speculation on price? I am going to throw random numbers out there:

$779 for the comp and $949 for the pro.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> any speculation on price? I am going to throw random numbers out there:
> 
> $779 for the comp and $949 for the pro.


$579 comp
$799 pro
Not msrp...just hopeful. Manitou forks usually drop down in price after awhile on the market. Picked up my Marvel Pro for $600! We shall see.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> any speculation on price? I am going to throw random numbers out there:
> 
> $779 for the comp and $949 for the pro.


If I were manitou, I would charge at least this for the first 6 months/yr...


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## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> any speculation on price? I am going to throw random numbers out there:
> 
> $779 for the comp and $949 for the pro.


I was wondering this myself; I'd say as MSRP those are pretty good guesses.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Dougal said:


> The abs+ and mc² dampers they use are easily revalved. Manitou even publish the dyno charts and sell the shim kits.
> 
> The 34mm forks also have spacer (iva) systems or third air chamber kits (irt) which drop in the top.
> 
> ...


Stock IVA is great for non-fiddling types. IRT can make 98% of the rest of us happy.

Suspension these days is awesome -- so good out of the box, so tunable, and relatively light considering capability.


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## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

Anyone hear a better release date than this fall? I had to give my loaner Bluto back and don't really want to buy one right before their resale value tanks.


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## hello-dirt (Feb 11, 2009)

Again, it has been stated we will know more during Sea Otter classic.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

hello-dirt said:


> Again, it has been stated we will know more during Sea Otter classic.


what is see odder classic?


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## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

Co-opski said:


> what is see odder classic?


Sea Otter Classic - April 20-23, 2017 - Monterey, California, USA (Powered by SRAM) -


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

hello-dirt said:


> Again, it has been stated we will know more during Sea Otter classic.


How about now?
Any news yet?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

the mayor said:


> How about now?
> Any news yet?


If tomorrow falls between April 20th and 23rd, then we should know tomorrow.


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## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

the mayor said:


> How about now?
> Any news yet?


Sea Otter Classic - April 20-23, 2017 - Monterey, California, USA (Powered by SRAM) -


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> If tomorrow falls between April 20th and 23rd, then we should know tomorrow.


Great!
I will ask again tomorrow.
But...just in case....any news yet?


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## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

the mayor said:


> Great!
> I will ask again tomorrow.
> But...just in case....any news yet?


Sea Otter Classic - April 20-23, 2017 - Monterey, California, USA (Powered by SRAM) -


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

the mayor said:


> Great!
> I will ask again tomorrow.
> But...just in case....any news yet?


Good idea - tomorrow could be the day. But if it isn't tomorrow, then I think it might could be 9-12 days from now. Don't ask me how I know.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I heard that the Mastodon was exclusive to the Trek Farley EX until 2018


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> I heard that the Mastodon was exclusive to the Trek Farley EX until 2018


Damn, not a nibble, you guys are tight!

Okay, I heard that Trek stores have an exclusive on the Mastodon until 2018, so you gotta buy it from Trek.

I'm thinking of ways to sneak into a Trek dealer, get the fork, without anyone recognizing me


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## worldskipper (Jul 4, 2013)

Ben I read that the Mastodon is going to be exclusive to Manitou! Talk about unfair business practices, it's a monopoly I tell you!


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## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

So I'm guessing that's a no?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

the mayor said:


> But...just in case....any news yet?


News? I'll give you some news. I've been riding one of these beauteous beasts on the front of my Fatillac. Close to 70 hours ridden on it in the last ~6 weeks, including 3.5 tonight.

It's friggin awesome. The honeymoon phase was over 4 weeks ago, and yet I still continue to look forward to every ride on this bike/fork. 6" of travel on both ends + 3.5" tires on both ends = braaaaAAAAAAAAAP!


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

mikesee said:


> It's friggin awesome. The honeymoon phase was over 4 weeks ago, and yet I still continue to look forward to every ride on this bike/fork. 6" of travel on both ends + 3.5" tires on both ends = braaaaAAAAAAAAAP!


So... this is better than a Bluto for sure?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

awai04 said:


> So... this is better than a Bluto for sure?


If we're discussing chassis stiffness and damping quality, they don't even belong in the same discussion. Mastodon is awesome.

Looking at it from a different perspective, Bluto might be lighter. Once Mastodon is released Bluto will undoubtedly be cheaper. If weight and cost trump performance, then Bluto might be better for you.


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## bobkorn (Dec 6, 2011)

Hope it will be available with a straight steer tube for us Pugsley guys.


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## efuss (Dec 15, 2011)

@bobkorn, 
Even with a straight steerer, the crown will mot clear Pugsley's down tube.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

awai04 said:


> So... this is better than a Bluto for sure?


Let me check. Is a Mattoc better than a Reba?

I had a Bluto through the workshop last week. I should have weighed it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

awai04 said:


> So... this is better than a Bluto for sure?


That question is not deserving of an answer... listen to the crickets.


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

Thanks for the well thought out reply, mikesee (...and yeah, sorry about the delayed response). My longstanding thought has been that a Pike with 150mm front hub spacing and 120mm travel would be a perfect balance between weight and performance for all the same reasons a Pike works better than a Reba on a mtb. If this Mastodon is even close to a Pike, then I think it would answer a lot of the needs and wants of a lot of us on this sub-forum.

...What again is going to be the production weight of this fork? In my mind, any fork over 4.6 lbs brings the Bluto back into discussion, as around there is where I see the fork as becoming "heavy" for anything other than the rough & steep stuff.



mikesee said:


> If we're discussing chassis stiffness and damping quality, they don't even belong in the same discussion. Mastodon is awesome.
> 
> Looking at it from a different perspective, Bluto might be lighter. Once Mastodon is released Bluto will undoubtedly be cheaper. If weight and cost trump performance, then Bluto might be better for you.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

awai04 said:


> Thanks for the well thought out reply, mikesee (...and yeah, sorry about the delayed response). My longstanding thought has been that a Pike with 150mm front hub spacing and 120mm travel would be a perfect balance between weight and performance for all the same reasons a Pike works better than a Reba on a mtb. If this Mastodon is even close to a Pike, then I think it would answer a lot of the needs and wants of a lot of us on this sub-forum.
> 
> ...What again is going to be the production weight of this fork? In my mind, any fork over 4.6 lbs brings the Bluto back into discussion, as around there is where I see the fork as becoming "heavy" for anything other than the rough & steep stuff.


We are talking about a fat bike, so "weight" is thrown out the window as soon as you start adding suspension. You want light, ride rigid.

We already have rigid (lightest), Lauf (minimalist spring suspension), Bluto (Light suspension fork), and DH forks (heavy duty), so the Mastodon fits right smack dab in the midweight suspension slot.

An additional pound for a robust 150mm travel fat bike fork is totally reasonable; think Wren. Certainly the relative weight penalty increases as that same "heavy" fork is mounted on a shorter travel bike or a hardtail.

The true answer is found in the pudding. A burlier fork has never been the answer for the folks who feel the Bluto is adequate, nor is this fork for folks who ride rigid.

The Mastodon is for the folks who have the Bluto and feel that it is not adequate.


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

I do think weight does matter if you're talking about a bike that's still somewhat fun to trail ride for hours at a time. Even though full weight-weenie isn't the objective, some modest attention to weight is going enhance agility and response.

Agreed that success of this fork is going to come down to the details and how it actually rides.



Nurse Ben said:


> We are talking about a fat bike, so "weight" is thrown out the window as soon as you start adding suspension. You want light, ride rigid.
> 
> We already have rigid (lightest), Lauf (minimalist spring suspension), Bluto (Light suspension fork), and DH forks (heavy duty), so the Mastodon fits right smack dab in the midweight suspension slot.
> 
> ...


----------



## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Found this on Instagram, Looks huge.

Seeing a 27.5" hodag in a bluto almost rubs the arch, look at that clearance!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

solarplex said:


> Found this on Instagram, Looks huge.
> 
> Seeing a 27.5" hodag in a bluto almost rubs the arch, look at that clearance!


White?

Someone please tell me it won't be white.

It does look like a comfy fit, very exciting, just hoping it'll be for sale when it goes live next week.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

solarplex said:


> Found this on Instagram, Looks huge.
> 
> Seeing a 27.5" hodag in a bluto almost rubs the arch, look at that clearance!


I'm running a B Fat Hodag on mine. Looks like a road tire in a Reba. Huge clearance with the Gnarwhal or Barbegazi too. I've installed the 2XL on a 105mm rim and it fits fine, but I haven't ridden with it yet. Still scratching my head and wondering when I'd want a 5" wide tire in a 6" travel fork.


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

mikesee said:


> I'm running a B Fat Hodag on mine. Looks like a road tire in a Reba. Huge clearance with the Gnarwhal or Barbegazi too. I've installed the 2XL on a 105mm rim and it fits fine, but I haven't ridden with it yet. Still scratching my head and wondering when I'd want a 5" wide tire in a 6" travel fork.


Options mannnnn, dont want to be limited!

As long as the 27.5 gnarwhal fits, then im happy. Still trying to decide between this or the lauf.....


----------



## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

Agreed.



mikesee said:


> Still scratching my head and wondering when I'd want a 5" wide tire in a 6" travel fork.


...I hope these come in different travel lengths!


----------



## RPK3 (Aug 18, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> White?
> 
> Someone please tell me it won't be white.
> 
> It does look like a comfy fit, very exciting, just hoping it'll be for sale when it goes live next week.


You saw this cool pic and worried about the color?!? I thought it looked great but wondered wtf happened to the dropper post... I'm excited to finally have a good fat trail fork option.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

solarplex said:


> ...Seeing a 27.5" hodag in a bluto almost rubs the arch, look at that clearance!


I have 5/8" of clearance between my B-fat Hodag and Bluto arch, how does it almost rub?

Pretty stoked to see this fork come to market. I hope Fox follows suit to give us more options.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> White?
> 
> Someone please tell me it won't be white.


Woah, woah, woah! You gave someone else sh1t right here in this thread for indicating a preference for black stanchions!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> White?
> 
> Someone please tell me it won't be white.
> 
> It does look like a comfy fit, very exciting, just hoping it'll be for sale when it goes live next week.


This one isn't white:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BR__AQnBDHG/


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> White?
> 
> Someone please tell me it won't be white.
> 
> It does look like a comfy fit, very exciting, just hoping it'll be for sale when it goes live next week.


YES they will go with my fresh white Oakleys.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Woah, woah, woah! You gave someone else sh1t right here in this thread for indicating a preference for black stanchions!


The irony of it all 

I'd ride that fork if it was pepto bismal pink with flaming bunnies running down the legs!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> The irony of it all
> 
> I'd ride that fork if it was pepto bismal pink with flaming bunnies running down the legs!


The problem with white is I have nothing to wear... as we all know it's important to be color coordinated.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

bobkorn said:


> Hope it will be available with a straight steer tube for us Pugsley guys.


No problems, here is a sneak-shot of manitou's pug specific version (from the 1990's)....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

GrayJay said:


> No problems, here is a sneak-shot of manitou's pug specific version (from the 1990's)....


I like the colors, very subtle, has a bit of a retro look.

But I'm confused, those purple things, are they some sort.of advanced tire inflation system?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

GrayJay said:


> No problems, here is a sneak-shot of manitou's pug specific version (from the 1990's)....


Was that a Manitou effort or an aftermarket conversion (wider crown and brace) of a 1995 Manitou Comp?


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Dougal - 
I rigged this version up from a standard Manitou 3/comp, an even wider '95 crown would definitely be better even. My fat Manitou (aka dumbo?) has 92.5mm of clearance between the stanchions, just barely enough for a 3.8 larry tire (88mm carcass width on a 44mm snowcat rim). I had to modify the fork pushrod and elastomers/springs to bottom out before the tire hits the fork crown and also to extend the fork a bit when uncompressed. I transplanted the arch brace from a Manitou 1 fork (significantly taller) onto the Manitou 3 lowers in order to gain enough brace clearance for the taller tire. Installing/removing the wheel requires partially deflating the tire to get it past the cantilever brake bosses. 

The forks coil spring has no dampening, I would like add the EPC dampening from a Manitou 4 but have not yet sourced an EPC donor. I would also like to try fabricating an entirely new fork dropout incorporating disk-brake mounts and more fork rake (these early manitous only had around 38mm or rake, generates excessive fork trail with a slack HTA.)

My Manitou dumbo suspension setup admittedly has its limitations but I've had it on my fat bike for almost 5 years now and it had been dependable, works reasonably well.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Today it begins, any news? 

I jusy need to know who gets my money and when it will arrive


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Today it begins, any news?
> 
> I jusy need to know who gets my money and when it will arrive


Tomorrow it begins.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Tomorrow it begins.


You're on the wrong side of the world, first Otter posting is already up.

Sadly, Mr Guitar has posted a comment suggesting Trek will be the only source for a Madtodon until 2018... and it'll only come on their bikes!

Seriously, I'll buy one of their bikes with a Mastodon and resell it with a Bluto.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> You're on the wrong side of the world, first Otter posting is already up.


My official source says global release is still almost 12 hours away.

Patience Young Mastodon.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Nurse Ben said:


> ...Seriously, I'll buy one of their bikes with a Mastodon and resell it with a Bluto.


Wow Ben, I think you and I may actually agree on something here


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## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

Any news?

Found couple revives from Europe one is German one is Italian
Hier gibts die ersten Lifebilder der brandeuen Manitou Mastodon Federgabel für FATBikes.

https://www.mtb-mag.com/forum/threads/manitou-mastodon-test.351654/

I hope fox and roks poks wakeup an make same fat pike or fat 34/36


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Dougal said:


> My official source says global release is still almost 12 hours away.
> 
> Patience Young Mastodon.


Ben doesn't know what Patience is.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Ben doesn't know what Patience is.


The sad reality in this case is that the fork probably won't be available for purchase until next year. It makes sense if you're Trek, using the fork to sell complete bikes, but for Manitou it means a lost season of sales and the potentisl lost sales to a rival firk. I suppose they crunched the numbers and figured it out to a mutual benefit..

Anyone have stats on fork sales comparing Bluto sales on completes vs individual sales? I imagine completes are at least 75% of the sales.

Today could be the day...


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I'm trying to remember how long it was before you could buy the Magnum 29+ fork after the Stache was available. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought it was available separately shortly after the Stache.....?


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

It's shown on manitou's site now.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> It's shown on manitou's site now.


Set up guide for the Pro model is now on site also....


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Manitou takes on fat bike forks with the Mastodon - BikeRadar

Mastodon features

Cold weather tested at -15C / 0F and colder temperatures
34mm stanchions
80, 100, 120, 140, 150mm travel options
Fits 26 x 5.15in and 27.5 x 4.5in tires
Two ride heights: standard as direct replacement and extended for increased tire room
Pro weight for 26in / 100mm travel: 2,210g
Comp weight for 26in / 100mm travel: 2,430g

So wide

Even off of a bike it was clear from the giant crown and prairie-wide stance that the Mastodon was designed to fit even the widest-of-the-wide fat bike rubber.

The chassis can easily surround the largest tires available; everything from Vee Rubber's 26 x 5.05in 2XL Snowshoes to Bontrager's Hodag 27.5 x 4.5in. There's also plenty of room for 29 x 3.0in plus tires. 
Dialed damping

The Mastodon uses damping technology derived from its well-received Mattoc and Dorado forks.

The forks are upgradable as well, accepting Manitou's Infinite Tuning Rate kit for additional mid-stroke control, and all of the seals, oils and internals are built to work in freezing temperatures thanks to Manitou's expertise in snowmobile racing.

Stiffness claims

Through the use of large 34mm stanchions and Manitou's classic reverse arch, both front and back and torsional stiffness is claimed to be improved over the Bluto. Manitou's testing puts these numbers at 26 percent and 25 percent respectively. 
Mastodon pricing and availability

* Mastodon Comp: $649.99 with availability now
Mastodon Pro: $849.99 with availability now*


----------



## yeroc40 (Sep 2, 2008)

Better pricing than I was expecting, and available NOW? I'm impressed and counting my pennies


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The sad reality in this case is that the fork probably won't be available for purchase until next year. It makes sense if you're Trek, using the fork to sell complete bikes, but for Manitou it means a lost season of sales and the potentisl lost sales to a rival firk. I suppose they crunched the numbers and figured it out to a mutual benefit..
> 
> Anyone have stats on fork sales comparing Bluto sales on completes vs individual sales? I imagine completes are at least 75% of the sales.
> 
> Today could be the day...


Happy now?

Available for aftermarket order immediately. You'll find a few extra choice bits of info on my site:
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastodon-manitou.html


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

why is it $1600?


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Did the ".nz" get missed? Their not is the US, their in New Zealand, different currency. 

So in New Zealand that's the price (in their currency not ours).

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

akacoke said:


> why is it $1600?


Different currency and includes sales tax.


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

akacoke said:


> why is it $1600?


That is New Zealand dollars


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

RAKC Ind said:


> Did the ".nz" get missed? Their not is the US, their in New Zealand, different currency.
> 
> So in New Zealand that's the price (in their currency not ours).
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


.nz was perhaps overlooked as NebraZka?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

dougal said:


> happy now?
> 
> Available for aftermarket order immediately. You'll find a few extra choice bits of info on my site:
> https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastodon-manitou.html


very!

Questions:

Will the regular length fit a Minion 26 x 4.5, which is the same height as a Minion 27.5 x 3.8?

Your site says preorder, what is the expected arrival date for the forks in house?

Can I get it in white


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Son of a ..... Guess I am selling my fat bike now, frame won't take tapered forks (2011). Better to ask for forgiveness than permission come fall when I can sell it to buy a newer frame.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

On Dougal's site there is a straight steerer option as well as a 150mm travel option, though both are tbd.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Wait straight option? What spacing though?

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Nevermind I'm dense, be 150 spacing. Guess just a new hub. Even longer I can hold out against 190/197 rear. Like my 170 Mukluk, fits 4.7 in the rear just barely.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

197mm rear spacing and suspension, two things that don't go good together.

So about my questions, Dougal, ya asleep already?


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> 197mm rear spacing and suspension, two things that don't go good together.
> 
> So about my questions, Dougal, ya asleep already?


Sorry to ask the newb question! Why not?


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I wasn't meaning FS, just from rigid to hardtail.

And I just did the currency conversion, OUCH. $1100 for a fork WTF???

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> 197mm rear spacing and suspension, two things that don't go good together.


Why do you say that?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

$1100, that's pricey.

I suppose that will keep the lookie loos from getting in on the first run. It was $900 for the early Wren, $750 for the early Bluto, it seems the ante continues to increase.

Anyone know if Fox or SRAM are planning to announce a fat fork?


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

For those stateside it is $650 and $850 for comp and pro respectively. The $1100 was the cost in New Zealand converting $NZD1600 into $USD1100 for a pro


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> very!
> 
> Questions:
> 
> ...


Have you got the OD of a Minion 26x4.5?
I don't yet have all the details to confirm, but around 800mm tyre diameter is I think the break point between the standard and extended versions.

There's no point you ordering from me unless you live in New Zealand. I'm halfway around the planet from the US.
The guys who fill the orders are currently living it up working hard at Sea-Otter. I'm expecting 2-3 weeks from order confirmation as freight and customs clearance to me takes about a week by itself.

No white on the order forms. Just Matte Black. It could be an OEM only colour right now. They do still make paint though.

Straight steerer and 150mm travel options are details I'll have to confirm later.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MozFat said:


> For those stateside it is $650 and $850 for comp and pro respectively. The $1100 was the cost in New Zealand converting $NZD1600 into $USD1100 for a pro


Yep and then roll in 15% sales tax, air-freight and customs clearance fees. Stuff gets expensive here. That's about $NZ100-200 cheaper than an RCT3 Pike.

Our wages don't scale up to match either.

We'll see how demand goes and if anyone wants to wait 2 months for cheaper sea-freight.


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

Dougal said:


> Yep and then roll in 15% sales tax, air-freight and customs clearance fees. Stuff gets expensive here. That's about $NZ100-200 cheaper than an RCT3 Pike.
> 
> Our wages don't scale up to match either.
> 
> We'll see how demand goes and if anyone wants to wait 2 months for cheaper sea-freight.


I know the deal. I'm a Kiwi living in Mozambique. Back in the day(in NZ) used to order last season's bikes from the States. Still used to be cheaper than buying local. Golf clubs the same deal


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Dougal, obviously most of us US based fruits won't be buying a fork from you, but your contribution here is greatly appreciated!!! :thumbsup:


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

MozFat said:


> Sorry to ask the newb question! Why not?


Because your fork will be able to telepathically sense your rear spacing. Anything over 177 and it'll grow arms and refuse to go into your tapered head tube that was freaking designed to take a suspension fork.

For the love of God Ben, people listen to what you say on this forum so please stop letting your own preferences get in the way of reality.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> For the love of God Ben, people listen to what you say on this forum so please stop letting your own preferences get in the way of reality.


Lighten up.
I, for one, look forward to the Nurse's post about his struggle to buy the Mastodon.

Then his posts raving about it.

Then his post that it's for sale.

Then the posts bad mouthing it....while going back to the previous fork that he previously hated.

Circle of life stuff.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> Because your fork will be able to telepathically sense your rear spacing. Anything over 177 and it'll grow arms and refuse to go into your tapered head tube that was freaking designed to take a suspension fork.
> 
> For the love of God Ben, people listen to what you say on this forum so please stop letting your own preferences get in the way of reality.


Keifer,

People should have enough sense to think, and thinking is what people should be doing. The market is not always in step with the science. Just as a 100mm bb is not necessary to run a 4" tire, a 197mm spacing is not necessary to run a 4.5 tire.

I can't help that people think bigger is better, maybe it's an AmeriCan thing, but there are always diminishing returns as we draw closer to the limits.

Anyone listening to me is also listening to others, it balances out.

I'm sorry you bought a Wren, I feel your pain, I went through a lot with that fork. Maybe you didn't listen to me long.enough


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Have you got the OD of a Minion 26x4.5?
> I don't yet have all the details to confirm, but around 800mm tyre diameter is I think the break point between the standard


29 x 3 Minion on a 45mm id rim is ~760mm, 26 x 4.5 Minion on a 65mm id rim is about 750mm.

If thise tires fit the "regular, non extended", whuch I assume is the 26", then I'll get the regular.

Is the extended designed (27.5?) a future proof for sizes, ie 29 x 4, 26 x 6, etc...?


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Keifer,
> 
> People should have enough sense to think, and thinking is what people should be doing. The market is not always in step with the science. Just as a 100mm bb is not necessary to run a 4" tire, a 197mm spacing is not necessary to run a 4.5 tire.
> 
> ...


People can think for themselves yes, but when a prominent member of a popular forum posts, that post holds more weight than others.

Sure their are others who are equally respected who people listen to as well, but probably 90 percent of the time on this board your voice is the loudest.

What your post comes down to is axle spacing has absolutely nothing to do with whether your bike should have suspension. The ice cream truck was designed with a slack head angle and a bluto in mind. Are you going to sit there and say people should only ride it rigid?

I would agree that 177 is probably a better standard in regards to bearing life, heel clearance, etc.

I'm happy with my wren and Russ has always been very helpful. When your mastodon blows up have fun dealing with their warranty department or your lbs.

Just as mayor said, once a fat pike comes a long the mastodon will be relegated to the likes of wren.

Nothing I say is personal against you, please keep that in mind. Just stop the spread of misinformation.


----------



## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> Just as mayor said, once a fat pike comes a long the mastodon will be relegated to the likes of wren.


Agreed. Published weights are 2200-2400g depending on the Comp or Pro model, which equals 4.85 - 5.3 lbs. A minority of fat bikers with DH in mind will find the weight range just fine. For riders who want a slightly sturdier-than-Bluto/Reba fork at >100mm travel for their all-purpose hardtail fat bikes, the door is still open for a lighter trail fork to come along.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I like heavy forks, they go down hill faster.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> 29 x 3 Minion on a 45mm id rim is ~760mm, 26 x 4.5 Minion on a 65mm id rim is about 750mm.
> 
> If thise tires fit the "regular, non extended", whuch I assume is the 26", then I'll get the regular.
> 
> Is the extended designed (27.5?) a future proof for sizes, ie 29 x 4, 26 x 6, etc...?


Found it here: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-ProComp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf
756mm max for standard version. 796mm max for extended version.

That is, of course, with Manitou's usual safety clearance to allow for fork and wheel flex at full compression. Going beyond their recommendations is at your own risk.



Shinkers said:


> I'm happy with my wren and Russ has always been very helpful. When your mastodon blows up have fun dealing with their warranty department or your lbs.
> 
> Just as mayor said, once a fat pike comes a long the mastodon will be relegated to the likes of wren.


Sounds like you've not ridden a Mattoc or Magnum. They don't blow up, are extremely easy to work on and performance wise are a big step up over a Pike. It would be an eye opener for you to get a ride on one.



awai04 said:


> Agreed. Published weights are 2200-2400g depending on the Comp or Pro model, which equals 4.85 - 5.3 lbs. A minority of fat bikers with DH in mind will find the weight range just fine. For riders who want a slightly sturdier-than-Bluto/Reba fork at >100mm travel for their all-purpose hardtail fat bikes, the door is still open for a lighter trail fork to come along.


Mattocs are slightly lighter than Pike in the same configuration (wheel size, travel and steerer length). If RS make a fat pike it will likely be slightly heavier than the Mastodon.

If you want lighter then you have to start sacrificing metal. Stiffness is one of the first things to go. Tube sizes will have to decrease and/or brace and crown material. There is no free lunch.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> Dougal, obviously most of us US based fruits won't be buying a fork from you, but your contribution here is greatly appreciated!!! :thumbsup:


Happy to help. Ironically I'm not a Fat Biker. But now I've got a hankering to find one just so I can ride a Mastodon!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Dougal said:


> Sounds like you've not ridden a Mattoc or Magnum. They don't blow up, are extremely easy to work on and performance wise are a big step up over a Pike. It would be an eye opener for you to get a ride on one.


I've owned 4 Pike's. The small bump sensitivity is incredible. Chassis stiffness is incredible. Big hit performance was usually lacking, as was mid-stroke support. Pike could be fiddled with and these attributes could be improved to an extent, but I was never able to completely remove the dive or the 'clack' without adversely affecting small bump sensitivity. In other words, you had to give up something, somewhere.

I find no such compromises with Magnum or Mastodon. You can truly have all 4 at once, once fine fiddling has been done.

There will always be some that complain about weight, or cost, or even color. Their prerogative. No one fork (or bike, or tire, or lip gloss...) works for everyone.

Mastodon is the first fat fork that can fit every tire currently on the market, and some yet to be released or even imagined. That it can do this *and* perform so well in every area puts it head and shoulders above any other fork, at any price point, real or imagined.


----------



## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

mikesee said:


> There will always be some that complain about weight, or cost, or even color. Their prerogative. No one fork (or bike, or tire, or lip gloss...) works for everyone.


That's a good point. At the end of current discussion, most of us cannot fairly evaluate the Mastodon until we've spent some time with one in front of our pedals. Will 5 lbs really be "too heavy" for most trail riders? Even if the answer is yes, then there's no reason Manitou can't follow up with a lighter "SL" version. Just the fact that Manitou now has a fat fork puts them at least a full season ahead of the other major manufacturers.


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

mikesee said:


> I've owned 4 Pike's. The small bump sensitivity is incredible. Chassis stiffness is incredible. Big hit performance was usually lacking, as was mid-stroke support...
> 
> I find no such compromises with Magnum or Mastodon. You can truly have all 4 at once, once fine fiddling has been done. , or tire, or lip gloss...) works for everyone.
> 
> Mastodon is the first fat fork that can fit every tire currently on the market, and some yet to be released or even imagined. That it can do this *and* perform so well in every area puts it head and shoulders above any other fork, at any price point, real or imagined.


Mike, thank you for comparing the Mastodon to the Pike.

What are your thoughts of the Mastodon vs the Fox 34? If you do not wish to go over a 4" tire, is the fox still the fork of choice?

Thanks!


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> Mike, thank you for comparing the Mastodon to the Pike.
> 
> What are your thoughts of the Mastodon vs the Fox 34? If you do not wish to go over a 4" tire, is the fox still the fork of choice?
> 
> Thanks!


i think the only real compelling reasons to stick with the Fox are:

-You can buy one right now, today, and
-You are very unlikely to have crown/frame interference with the (relatively narrow) Fox fork.

I have the Mastodon EXT -- it's as tall and wide as any fork, ever. And I have no trouble running it on my Meriwether 2XL bike, nor on my Fatillac B Fat FS bike.

I can't tell a difference in weight nor chassis stiffness between them. The stock Mastodon air spring and damper are more tunable out of the box than the Fox.

The Fox can easily fit 3.5ish tires, but if you want to run a true 4" tire, on anything wider than a ~60mm rim, clearance gets very tight very fast. No room for mud.


----------



## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

mikesee said:


> The Fox can easily fit 3.5ish tires, but if you want to run a true 4" tire, on anything wider than a ~60mm rim, clearance gets very tight very fast. No room for mud.


that made my wheel purchasing decision much easier. Thanks Mike! :thumbsup:


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

awai04 said:


> ...I hope these come in different travel lengths!


Lost amidst all of the hype, numbers, and speculation is, perhaps, the most awesome thing about the Mastodon: Infinite (and tool free) travel adjust.

Same as Dorado and Magnum, you thread your pump onto the fork, set travel (by manually compressing or extending the lowers), then disconnect pump. Voila. Literally that easy. I've run the Mastodon at ~80mm travel (pictured, below on my Meriwether) and at ~150mm travel on my Fatillac.

Keep in mind that if you order a 120mm fork, it won't be able to be stretched beyond that. Takeaway = unless you're sure you'll never need moar, order a longer travel version and simply set the travel shorter.


----------



## Mr. Doom (Sep 23, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Yep and then roll in 15% sales tax, air-freight and customs clearance fees. Stuff gets expensive here. That's about $NZ100-200 cheaper than an RCT3 Pike.
> 
> Our wages don't scale up to match either.
> 
> We'll see how demand goes and if anyone wants to wait 2 months for cheaper sea-freight.


Quit complaining ya Hobbit, at least your leader can speak in sentences and you get to ride great terrain all winter.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Lost amidst all of the hype, numbers, and speculation is, perhaps, the most awesome thing about the Mastodon: Infinite (and tool free) travel adjust.
> 
> Same as Dorado and Magnum, you thread your pump onto the fork, set travel (by manually compressing or extending the lowers), then disconnect pump. Voila. Literally that easy. I've run the Mastodon at ~80mm travel (pictured, below on my Meriwether) and at ~150mm travel on my Fatillac.
> 
> Keep in mind that if you order a 120mm fork, it won't be able to be stretched beyond that. Takeaway = unless you're sure you'll never need moar, order a longer travel version and simply set the travel shorter.


Thanks for the real world info!
On the other hand....endless threads of people struggling with setting travel in 5...4...3...2....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Keep in mind that if you order a 120mm fork, it won't be able to be stretched beyond that. Takeaway = unless you're sure you'll never need moar, order a longer travel version and simply set the travel shorter.


There are spacers included in the forks so each fork can be spaced a little. The 120mm forks can do from 140-100mm just with spacers. The 100mm forks can do 100-80mm just with spacers.

You can, of course, do more travel adjustment than that with spacers. But the positive/negative air volumes get quite different to design point.

This is on top of the "connect pump and put it where you want it" convenience.

Travel adjust guide here: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-ProComp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


----------



## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

On looking at the Manitou Website they have a two travels and two wheel sizes for the Comp and Pro. Just confirming that the 27.5 are the extended ride height rather than the 26? It's a bit confusing because they have 27.5 listed on both sizes but the buy locally does not state std vs extended just 26 vs 27.5.

-Extended ride height versions fit up to 26×5.15” / 27.5×4.5” tires
-Standard ride height versions fit up to 26×4” / 27.5×3.8” tires


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## Dnek1999 (Apr 15, 2014)

mikesee said:


> Lost amidst all of the hype, numbers, and speculation is, perhaps, the most awesome thing about the Mastodon: Infinite (and tool free) travel adjust.
> 
> Same as Dorado and Magnum, you thread your pump onto the fork, set travel (by manually compressing or extending the lowers), then disconnect pump. Voila. Literally that easy. I've run the Mastodon at ~80mm travel (pictured, below on my Meriwether) and at ~150mm travel on my Fatillac.
> 
> Keep in mind that if you order a 120mm fork, it won't be able to be stretched beyond that. Takeaway = unless you're sure you'll never need moar, order a longer travel version and simply set the travel shorter.


mikesee- have you run this with a 27.5 tire at all? I want to get a Mastodon for a Trek Farley 9.8 and the STD vs EXT is confusing. Thoughts?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Dnek1999 said:


> mikesee- have you run this with a 27.5 tire at all? I want to get a Mastodon for a Trek Farley 9.8 and the STD vs EXT is confusing. Thoughts?


I've run mine with 27.5 x 3.5" Hodag, 27.5 x 4.5 Barbe and Gnar, and 26 x 5" 2XL. I think with the STD you are limited to less than a 4" tire. There's a chart out there somewhere that explains which tires fit in which.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

mikesee said:


> I've run mine with 27.5 x 3.5" Hodag, 27.5 x 4.5 Barbe and Gnar, and 26 x 5" 2XL. I think with the STD you are limited to less than a 4" tire. There's a chart out there somewhere that explains which tires fit in which.


With the EXT version, should we be concerned with the crowns hitting the downtube? I have a Farley 9.8 and would be interested in putting this on if I can verify that the crowns wont hit the downtube.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> With the EXT version, should we be concerned with the crowns hitting the downtube? I have a Farley 9.8 and would be interested in putting this on if I can verify that the crowns wont hit the downtube.


The crowns and crown-frame clearance won't change. The difference between STD and EXT (or 26" vs 27" on some literature) is in the air shaft and damper shaft lengths.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The crowns and crown-frame clearance won't change. The difference between STD and EXT (or 26" vs 27" on some literature) is in the air shaft and damper shaft lengths.


Wrong. The lower castings are different to allow the larger tire


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Wrong. The lower castings are different to allow the larger tire


Seriously? You're trying to call me wrong on Manitou stuff? That is not going to work for you.

Here is the service guide for the Mastodon: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-Pro-Service-Guide.pdf
Page 4 of the PDF (numbered page 6) has all the parts listings.

Std and Ext use exactly the same lower legs. Same part number: 141-34087-K009.
Only differences are the air shafts and rebound shafts. 
Which is exactly what I said earlier.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I stand corrected.
I guess my rep needs a copy of this manual. Doh!
Thanks for the info


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

wait, it doesnt make sense. according to the tire size clearance chart. the std version does not clear a lot of tires. but ext clears them, meaning they must have different casting tho.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

akacoke said:


> wait, it doesnt make sense. according to the tire size clearance chart. the std version does not clear a lot of tires. but ext clears them, meaning they must have different casting tho.


From the manual Dougal posted....I'd assume the longer damper and shafts keep the tire from bottoming on the underside of the crown....and there is plenty of room in the arch.
But seeing I've been wrong here already...Dougal?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

akacoke said:


> wait, it doesnt make sense. according to the tire size clearance chart. the std version does not clear a lot of tires. but ext clears them, meaning they must have different casting tho.


It's pretty simple.
The lower legs have clearance for the biggest tyres. The limit on tyre size is the crown and how low that compresses. This is changed with spacers internally under the bottom-out bumpers.
Because the bottom-out height (and hence stroke) changes the extended version has longer rods to extend higher and keep the same travel.

This is the same way Manitou do 26-27" on the Mattoc. Lower legs have clearance for the 27" tyres but they compress further when spacers are set to 26" mode.

In the Mattoc they run the same rods for 26/27, it's close enough that only spacers and HBO cones move.


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## Holmespun (Nov 20, 2015)

mikesee said:


> It's friggin awesome.


Curious how you think it compares to the Wren.


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## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

I pulled the trigger on a comp. No idea when it will arrive or if my bike will even be ridable by the time it does. Last winter trashed my headset, BB, and both brakes.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

To clarify:

26" x 120mm non-extended travel fork fits up to 26 x 4"/27.5 × 3.8 tires and is adjustable ftom 100mm to 140mm travel.

27.5" x 120mm extended travel fork fits up to 26 x 5.15/27.5 × 4.5 and is adjustable from 100mm to 140mm.

So here's my question: a 26 x 4.5 is the same height as a 27 x 3.8, and damn near the same height as a 29 x 3.

If I don't plan to run anything taller than a 29 x 3, which has a diameter of ~760mm, can I run the 26" non extended fork?

My buddy spoke with Manitou today, they said the forks are on the way to the distributors (QBP, etc).


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## Teton29er (Jul 31, 2011)

So if the standard can only fit 26 x 4 tires, it's smaller than a bluto? Who's gonna want that? Maybe the few people with Full Suspension who are convinced they never want options? I'm guessing either the website is wrong or they developed the fork 5 years ago when manufacturers were telling buyers that 4" rear ends is all they need...

Since I have a Farley, there's no question what to get. Even if my primary tire is a 27.5 x 3.5, I want to be able to slap on 4.5's for the occasional trip to the sand dunes or early winter before I change back to rigid.


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

If the Surly Bud doesn't fit the std I'm guessing 29x3 won't either.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

So I am assuming that the EXT version will slacken the bikes HA. How can I figure out how much the HA will slacken on a Farley 9.8 with 100mm bluto?


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## RPK3 (Aug 18, 2005)

Negotiator50 said:


> So I am assuming that the EXT version will slacken the bikes HA. How can I figure out how much the HA will slacken on a Farley 9.8 with 100mm bluto?


The extended version has 20mm more axle to crown height the STD version. I generally assume that 20mm more a-c results in approximately 1º slacker angles.

RS lists the 100mm Bluto with an A-C of 511 or the same as the 100mm Mastadon STD. But if you want to run bigger than a 27.5x3.8 Hodag on your Farley, you'll need the EXT fork with 531mm A-C.

I've got a Farley 9.6 and would be happy with a slacker headtube. But I'm not crazy about the resulting slacker seat tube angle. I need to check how much room there is to slide my seat forward. That's an easy way to change the effective ST angle if it doesn't hurt your fit.

This is taken from the Mastadon manual.








From Rockshox Bluto specs online








FWIW, I'm not a HUGE fan of Manitou's abbreviations. If you quit extending (EXT) it, maybe you'll end up with fewer STDs. I briefly forgot this wasn't the pink bike punfest....


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

RPK3 said:


> RS actually lists the 100mm Bluto with an A-C of 531


Looks to me like it lists 100mm bluto as 511. Thus, the ext will raise it by 1 degree. The 120 bluto is listed as 531.


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## RPK3 (Aug 18, 2005)

Negotiator50, I caught my mistake and fixed it. But not quick enough... Found your reply as soon as I finished.


----------



## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm curious...so does the EXT version not compress all of the way(i.e.. leave 20mm of exposed upper tubes at full compression) as opposed to full compression on the non EXT version?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Okay guys, here's the deal with the tyre size and std vs extended.

The max tyre size is dictated by the number of spacers you have under the bottom-out bumpers. More spacers means the crown stops higher up and you can run a bigger tyre safely.
The max height of the fork depends on std vs ext and can be reduced by spacers under the top-out bumpers if it's too tall for your frame.
The travel you get is the distance between top-out and bottom-out.

So if you want to run tyres a bit bigger than standard, you can add spacers under the bottom-out bumpers (10mm increments). But this will reduce travel. Which may or may not be a problem for you.

It's all shown in the pictures in the travel change manual (page 9). But there is the complication of different stanchion lengths: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-ProComp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf

Bottom-Out Std Version:
5 spacers for 80-100mm.
1 spacer for 120-140mm.
1 spacer for 150mm.

You can run 20mm bigger (diameter) tyres by fitting 1 extra 10mm spacer to the above numbers. Travel is reduced by 10mm.
You can run 40mm bigger (diameter) tyres by fitting 2 extra 10mm spacers to the above numbers. Travel is reduced by 20mm. This gives you same clearance as EXT version, but 20mm less travel.

Look at it this way. EXT is a 20mm taller fork. You can adjust the tyre clearance of STD to the same point, but you'll be 20mm short on travel.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

Thanks Dougal! I think I got it...nice having your words and the manual to look at to piece it all together! I am going to order one as soon as I sell my Lauf Carbonara!


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

So I think I got it with how it relates to my current Farley 9.8 with 100mm Bluto. I can go with the EXT version for tire flexibility and still get the same AC and HA as I do now but I will have to set it up with 80mm of travel. Is that correct?


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Competion and innovation are great for the fatty market. Good news!

So, when do the prices start to drop on the Bluto's?


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

How does the downtube clearance compare to the Bluto? Will most large frames be OK?


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> So I think I got it with how it relates to my current Farley 9.8 with 100mm Bluto. I can go with the EXT version for tire flexibility and still get the same AC and HA as I do now but I will have to set it up with 80mm of travel. Is that correct?


Yah basically was think this as well, i believe yah will have to be set at 80mm or at 100 and have it a bit slacker.

Stock is 490mm, its 531mm for 100mm, so 506mm with sag.

501mm for 80mm with sag is 480mm

Ones a bit high, ones a bit low....


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

Anyone find out the MSRP on this thing yet?

Curious if it competes with Bluto in price. If so, it should sell really well.


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## hello-dirt (Feb 11, 2009)

$650 for the comp model and $850 for the Pro model. All info is now on Manitou website.


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks! Can anyone chime in on what to expect for real world differences between the comp and pro models? I read the differences on the website, and things like "expert air" and "dorado air" airsprings mean nothing to me since I'm not at all familiar with manitou's products.


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## chris_nwb (Dec 28, 2016)

solarplex said:


> Yah basically was think this as well, i believe yah will have to be set at 80mm or at 100 and have it a bit slacker.
> 
> Stock is 490mm, its 531mm for 100mm, so 506mm with sag.
> 
> ...


On the fence between Bluto 100mm and Mastodon EXT Comp 100mm.

My Salsa Mukluk is spec'd to support a suspension fork up to 511mm AC, and I plan to use 26x4.6" and 29x3.0" tires on this bike--which takes the Mastodon STD out of the picture.

If I use a Mastodon, it will have to be configured with 80mm travel, whereas with Bluto, I can use the full 100mm.

If I'm using my bike mostly for XC (I'm just a roadie riding on dirt), is the Mastodon worth getting over a Bluto for better performance (?) but more weight and less travel?


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## JT1 (Feb 10, 2017)

"I'm just a roadie riding on dirt."

This describes me precisely. I bought a fatbike a few months back (Framed Minnesota 3.0) to provide me more outdoor cycling opportunities during winter, fell in love with trail riding, and added a Bluto.

The Bluto suits me quite well. I've not had issues others have described. But, I'm a neophyte who most likely wouldn't recognize bicycle suspension nuances, even if given warning.

Though I'm an older fellow (early 60s), I've taken to heart the road cyclist's mantra that strength to weight ratio is king. So, weighing fully wet at less than 150 lbs, I'm probably not much of a challenge to mountain bike suspension. I also, as a newbie, appreciate the simplicity of the Bluto: set sag and rebound and go.

In any event, I've been very happy with my Bluto.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FireinMTB said:


> Thanks! Can anyone chime in on what to expect for real world differences between the comp and pro models? I read the differences on the website, and things like "expert air" and "dorado air" airsprings mean nothing to me since I'm not at all familiar with manitou's products.


Structurally Comp has 6061 stanchions instead of 7075 so they are thicker wall to get the same strength. Result is a bit more weight (200g)

Comp uses the simpler ABS+ damper which is revalvable internally but doesn't have the same external HSC adjustment. The air spring is also different, but I don't know exactly what the differences is. It's being called "Expert Air" which is a new one to me.


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

I work at a bike shop, and this is NOT yet available through QBP, for us at least.


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## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

FireinMTB said:


> I work at a bike shop, and this is NOT yet available through QBP, for us at least.


They're going through BTI but as of yesterday afternoon were still on the truck going from Wisconsin to wherever BTI is.


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

Thanks man. Found 'em on BTI. Gonna order one as soon as it's in stock. Thanks again.

I'm thinking about the standard version, in 120mm on my beargrease. It might be a bit overkill, but I like the idea of being able to go 27.5x3 with the 120mm travel and keep a decent BB height.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Saw the Mastadon in the wild today... man o man... a REAL fatbike trail fork!

If I had a spare minute I would have taken it out for a spin in the lot but the kids were in the car and we had a pressing engagement with a hiking trail/

This was the 150MM version... only one of two in existence. Mounted to the new Foes Mutz 150. 

The thing looks burly and very much trail worthy. 

Me to my Bluto... "Bye, Felicia."

That is, as soon as I can get my grubby little mitts on one.


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

https://www.bikerumor.com/2017/05/0...k-largest-tires-plus-budget-friendly-markhor/


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

delete


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Forks are ready to buy:

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=701&company=Manitou


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Can i choose 120 and go down to 100? Prob not, right?

I would like to try 120 and see how it goes but my bike's geo is set up to run 100


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## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

KTMNealio said:


> Forks are ready to buy:
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=701&company=Manitou


The VIP15 coupon codes makes this a sweet deal.


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## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

So what would the effect of an extra 20mm of axel to crown distance be?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Blinkz said:


> So what would the effect of an extra 20mm of axel to crown distance be?


Minus one degree hta, 20mm increase bar height, minus one degree sta. If you are going from a 100mm fork to a 120mm, then double the effects.

Good time to be slack, most fat bikes are waaay to steep to start, so slacking things out is the right way to go.

Just ordered mine, Ext, 120mm, in purple! Bet you guys didn't see that coming 

According to my partner in crime, the eta is Friday and I got the last one from BTI in thst configuration.

Like hotcakes, I'm tellin' ya'!!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Kirkerik said:


> Can i choose 120 and go down to 100? Prob not, right?
> 
> I would like to try 120 and see how it goes but my bike's geo is set up to run 100


It'd be great if people read the travel change guide I keep linking up.

You can space these down as much as you want. Either temporarily by just hooking on a pump or more securely with spacers inside.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


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## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

OK cool. I have a bluto on my farley ex. Not really sure what my HTA is to start. I'd probably go from the 120 bluto to a 120 ext. 
Not sure If I am gonna do it but I really want purple haha.



Nurse Ben said:


> Minus one degree hta, 20mm increase bar height, minus one degree sta. If you are going from a 100mm fork to a 120mm, then double the effects.
> 
> Good time to be slack, most fat bikes are waaay to steep to start, so slacking things out is the right way to go.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Dougal said:


> It'd be great if people read the travel change guide I keep linking up.
> 
> You can space these down as much as you want. Either temporarily by just hooking on a pump or more securely with spacers inside.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


Thanks for mentioning it again. I thought i read it here somewhere.

Post #208 covers it just above!

My 907 Whiteout feels perfect w the 69* HA w rigid fork but would not mind trying 68* w the 120mm fork. I thought i could at the very least run extra sag to get me to 100 like what i was thinking w the bluto. Encouraging though to have setup options w the Mastodon!


----------



## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Blinkz said:


> OK cool. I have a bluto on my farley ex. Not really sure what my HTA is to start. I'd probably go from the 120 bluto to a 120 ext.
> Not sure If I am gonna do it but I really want purple haha.


Purple is available! Or you doing custom? My whiteout is purple. Nice color


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

KTMNealio said:


> Forks are ready to buy:
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/index.php?category=701&company=Manitou


The Pro 120 Standard Height are already sold out!!!

NOOOOO!!!!!!


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

mikesee said:


> The Fox can easily fit 3.5ish tires, but if you want to run a true 4" tire, on anything wider than a ~60mm rim, clearance gets very tight very fast. No room for mud.


Lots of guys running the Fox 34 27.5+ with a 4.0 tire/70mm rim with no problems on Salsa Bucksaws.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Teton29er said:


> So if the standard can only fit 26 x 4 tires, it's smaller than a bluto? Who's gonna want that? Maybe the few people with Full Suspension who are convinced they never want options? I'm guessing either the website is wrong or they developed the fork 5 years ago when manufacturers were telling buyers that 4" rear ends is all they need...
> 
> Since I have a Farley, there's no question what to get. Even if my primary tire is a 27.5 x 3.5, I want to be able to slap on 4.5's for the occasional trip to the sand dunes or early winter before I change back to rigid.


I have the ability to run >4.0 tires on my hardtail fatty with bluto and honestly for 90% of winter riding it just isn't needed. Maybe it's needed for airing way down on the beach... but that's not something I do (despite living ~10 miles from the Atlantic ocean).

Jumbo Jim 4.0s for year-round riding pleasure.

Only reason to swap the tire would be to put studs on for very icy winter riding.

FWIW, I don't think the 27.5/4.5 fits the Farley EX rear end (although I could be wrong on that).

These ultra-wide tires are over-rated in my opinion. (and I have a set of studded Snowshoe XLs and a set of Minion FBF/FBR 4.8s).


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## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

Kirkerik said:


> Purple is available! Or you doing custom? My whiteout is purple. Nice color


I guess I haven't gotten that far into the search. I saw purple as an option an manitou's site and it appears nurse Ben ordered purple from somewhere

also by purple I mean it's mostly black but has purple accents. If there is a full purple option out there that would be awesome


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Dougal said:


> There are spacers included in the forks so each fork can be spaced +/-20mm. The 120mm forks can do from 140-100mm just with spacers. The 100mm forks can do 120-80mm just with spacers.
> 
> You can, of course, do more travel adjustment than that with spacers. But the positive/negative air volumes get quite different to design point.
> 
> ...


I really-really hope that's the case as I just pulled the trigger on a 100MM Pro Standard that I want to run at 110-120 on my Bucksaw!

The price at Universal was awesome... $679 shipped!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Shifty Bits said:


> The Pro 120 Standard Height are already sold out!!!
> 
> NOOOOO!!!!!!


Check eBay.


----------



## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

mikesee said:


> Check eBay.


Just bought the 100mm version and will space it to 120mm.. won't need more than that on the Bucksaw

Assuming it really can be "Stretched" to 120mm... reading this stuff is giving me an ice-cream headache.


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

Are you guys sure that you can "stretch" the 100mm to 120? I only ask because I'm debating this now, and was under the assumption that the 120mm can be shrunk to 100mm, but not vice versa. Would make sense that it could go both ways though.

My beargrease is 68.4HTA, i wonder if a 120mm fork would make it too slack @ 67.4? Anyone have any input on when is "too slack" for a hardtail fatty? I ride aggressively and live in the rocky mountains.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

*Frustrated!!!*



FireinMTB said:


> Are you guys sure that you can "stretch" the 100mm to 120? I only ask because I'm debating this now, and was under the assumption that the 120mm can be shrunk to 100mm, but not vice versa. Would make sense that it could go both ways though.
> 
> My beargrease is 68.4HTA, i wonder if a 120mm fork would make it too slack @ 67.4? Anyone have any input on when is "too slack" for a hardtail fatty? I ride aggressively and live in the rocky mountains.


UGH!

I looked at the manual to change height and it does NOT appear that the 100mm can go UP to 120mm.

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-ProComp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf

"Depending on the crown steerer assembly (CSA) your fork was built with you may have a few travel
change options. The 100 can convert down to 80mm by removing two of the 10mm spacers on the
rebound and compression rods. The 120mm can convert to 140mm. The 150 EXT is fixed at its travel.
EXAMPLE: The Mastodon Pro STD is set at 120 with three travel spacers. Removing one 10mm
spacer will set it at 130. Removing two 10mm will set the fork at 140mm as seen below. "

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot! :madmax::madmax::madmax::madmax:

I want 120mm travel!

Dougal, you sound like you know your stuff... kind of trusted you here..

But the manual seem to disagree with you....

Can somebody PLEASE confirm?

the 120mm is sold out at Universal... and I want that price on it.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Well...

You can always return it


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Shifty Bits said:


> UGH!
> 
> I looked at the manual to change height and it does NOT appear that the 100mm can go UP to 120mm.
> 
> ...


Yeah sorry 80 can do 100 but not 120. I got my wires crossed there.

For me I only buy forks for sale in the higher travel options. You can always go shorter, you can't always go longer.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Yeah sorry 80 can do 100 but not 120. I got my wires crossed there.
> 
> For me I only buy forks for sale in the higher travel options. You can always go shorter, you can't always go longer.


It technically can be done per Manitou tech support:

"So there are some limits on that. You would need to change out the rebound damper as well as the CSA to go from 100 to 120. Look at page 5 parts 1 and 9 for the ranges."

Fortunately I won't have to jump through those hoops as I called Universal to cancel the order.... and it turns out they had one 120mm left.

AND

They had already picked and shipped my order.. and they had accidentally shipped the 120 version!

The rare "oops" in your favor.

SO PUMPED to get this thing up and running.

Also... something I think you're going to hear a lot of in the near future...

"Bluto For Sale"


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Shifty Bits said:


> It technically can be done per Manitou tech support:
> 
> "So there are some limits on that. You would need to change out the rebound damper as well as the CSA to go from 100 to 120. Look at page 5 parts 1 and 9 for the ranges."
> 
> ...


Wow! That's sweet! Could not be any better. :thumbsup:


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Kirkerik said:


> Purple is available! Or you doing custom? My whiteout is purple. Nice color


It was a joke son, though, I'd take it in purple if it was a choice 

My fork is slated for delivery tomorrow, fingers crossed.


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm pretty sure I ordered from Universal before everyone else, yet my fork isn't supposed to ship until Tuesday..?


----------



## dcycleman (Jul 2, 2015)

I didn't read the whole thread, but no one seems to be comparing this fork to the wren?


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

dcycleman said:


> I didn't read the whole thread, but no one seems to be comparing this fork to the wren?


Only because there's no comparison.


----------



## dcycleman (Jul 2, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Only because there's no comparison.


cool, care to elaborate?


----------



## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

I'm in. Thanks Mikesee for the ebay suggestion


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

dcycleman said:


> cool, care to elaborate?


Review here.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I love coming home to a suprise 

and yeah, its burly, like a Pike, but more biggerer.

View attachment 1135705


----------



## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Review here.


Nice review mikesee- professionally done! Too bad the Wren is wanting in refinement. I've tried the FOMN and concur with the stanchion issue, currently have a Bluto on my wider fat bike, and await the frame onto which I will put a 27.5+ Fox 34 to make a narrower fat bike. Will be interesting to see how the others receive the Mastodon, initially and over time especially. The tendency seems to be that riders get all excited about the new stuff and only months later does the lasting impression start to show, lol.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Nice fork, really nice fork.

Easy set up, 180mm rotor, direct mount, Guides, perfect alignment, hard cutting steerer tube 7000 series yeah, easy set up.

Feels decent out of the box, EXT 120mm, I'm 200#, 90psi feels good. Very plush, rebound works, damping works, graduated lock really works.

Previous fork was a newer Bluto set at 100mm. New fork is 20mm more travel and 20mm more A-C. I thought I'd notice the ride height difference, but all I notice is the super cushy front and a way improved hta, now at ~67.5deg.

Clearance is tighter between the down tube and crown than with the Bluto, but I still have a good 10mm of clearance.

Gonna ride early tomorrow, so exciting, years of waiting for a decent fat bike fork, it's really about time.

Thanks Manitou!

View attachment 1135733


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Nice fork, really nice fork.
> 
> Easy set up, 180mm rotor, direct mount, Guides, perfect alignment, hard cutting steerer tube 7000 series yeah, easy set up.
> 
> ...


Looks great. Pro or Comp and what size rubber?


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

awai04 said:


> The tendency seems to be that riders get all excited about the new stuff and only months later does the lasting impression start to show, lol.


Yep Many here claim X is the greatest ever as soon as they get X, only to complain about issues and sell X a few months later


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bacon Fat said:


> Yep Many here claim X is the greatest ever as soon as they get X, only to complain about issues and sell X a few months later


Yep, that's why I'm not gonna get involved in discussions, comparisons, or give detailed feedback on this fork.

It's time the late adoptors took some responsibility for being lemmings 

Here is my review: nice fork.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Looks great. Pro or Comp and what size rubber?


Pro, 120, Minion 3.8


----------



## dcycleman (Jul 2, 2015)

you think it would be a mistake to run the 100 mm ext version with 531 crown to axel on my mukluk, while they recommend nothing over 511?


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

dcycleman said:


> you think it would be a mistake to run the 100 mm ext version with 531 crown to axel on my mukluk, while they recommend nothing over 511?


Man people are getting hung up on this.

Your bike will be fine.


----------



## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yep, that's why I'm not gonna get involved in discussions, comparisons, or give detailed feedback on this fork.


Hilarious!
Oh man I needed a good laugh, Thanks.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

fugsworth said:


> Hilarious!
> Oh man I needed a good laugh, Thanks.


Like I said, nice fork, nothing else to add.

Edit:

Just got back from riding, 29+ goodness:

View attachment 1135877


----------



## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Like I said, nice fork, nothing else to add.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


Talk to us. Ride impressions? Further comparisons to your previous fork?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Negotiator50 said:


> Talk to us. Ride impressions? Further comparisons to your previous fork?


Nice fork, I'm satisfied.


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Like I said, nice fork, nothing else to add.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


Looks like the DHF has plenty of room at the crown too.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

nitrousjunky said:


> Looks like the DHF has plenty of room at the crown too.


Yup.


----------



## blowery (Aug 28, 2014)

So how is the new mastodon fork?
Nurseben: I"m just here so I won't get fined...

How do it affect the a/c being taller?
Nurseben: I"m just here so I won't get fined...

How does this fork compare to the bluto or Wren?
Nurseben: I"m just here so I won't get fined...


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

^^^lmao


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

blowery said:


> So how is the new mastodon fork?
> Nurseben: I"m just here so I won't get fined...
> 
> How do it affect the a/c being taller?
> ...


Fined? I didn't know there was a penalty...

How about this: read Miksee's review, it's all there, fork comparison's, pros and cons, he even did a cross platform comparison with a Fox. I have nothing to add


----------



## OldHouseMan (Dec 7, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Fined? I didn't know there was a penalty...
> 
> How about this: read Miksee's review, it's all there, fork comparison's, pros and cons, he even did a cross platform comparison with a Fox. I have nothing to add


So, you're posting for self-satisfaction?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I have had one for about a week.


----------



## blowery (Aug 28, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Fined? I didn't know there was a penalty...
> 
> How about this: read Miksee's review, it's all there, fork comparison's, pros and cons, he even did a cross platform comparison with a Fox. I have nothing to add


Lighten up Francis...

It was a pop-culture reference to Marshawn Lynch's response to speaking to the media. 
Now you have made me explain the joke and it's not funny.

The Lefty is better anyway. Also, don't like the color of your bike or your incomplete grammar.


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Fined? I didn't know there was a penalty...
> 
> How about this: read Miksee's review, it's all there, fork comparison's, pros and cons, he even did a cross platform comparison with a Fox. I have nothing to add


How about YOU write a review so we don't have to read something that's center aligned.


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Volsung said:


> How about YOU write a review so we don't have to read something that's center aligned.


And just when I thought this thread couldn't get better.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

blowery said:


> Lighten up Francis...
> 
> It was a pop-culture reference to Marshawn Lynch's response to speaking to the media.
> Now you have made me explain the joke and it's not funny.
> ...


Incompetent grammar more like it, might have something to do with not having a computer at home... all posts are by phone; so primitive.

I didn't get the reference, sorry, I don't watch TV or pay attention to sports. I'm sure it's funny or you wouldn't have posted it.

I kinda agree on the color choice, but when I called Kona to tell them to change the color, I said it was nurse ben calling and they connected me with a Russian Astrologer in Uzbekistan... maybe they thought I voted for the orange guy?

Lefty, are they any good? I am so gonna dump the Mastodon and get a Lefty, I just needed your encouragement.

Thanks for all the tips, you da man!

Hell no I ain't doin' no damn review, wut the bleep does it matter? It's always the same arsehats, sitting on their thumbs, posting comments from their cubicle. Let them buy a Mastodon and post a review.

This fork is straight up Manitou tech, just like you get on their other high end forks, but with a wider crown and axle spacing.

If SRAM made a fat Pike that could be run from 80-150mm, with this kind of adjustability, would you question it's function? Hell no, a Pike is a Pike.

Just my 0.02

and don't forget about Mother's Day!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Volsung said:


> How about YOU write a review so we don't have to read something that's center aligned.


If you knew Mike, you wouldn't have that opinion. Mike is as straight and honest as they come, at times brutally so. If Mike puts his opinion out on a public forum, its straight up.

If folks really must have their questions answered to save them from buyer's constipation, send me a PM and I will do my best to answer said questions with proper grammar


----------



## Labs (Oct 7, 2016)

Quick question...why does the Mastodon have a tooled thru axle vs. a lever thru axle? Is there an advantage to it (theft??) Typically always have tools along but seems like the lever takes forgetting a tool out of the equation. Thanks for the help


----------



## Dnek1999 (Apr 15, 2014)

Labs said:


> Quick question...why does the Mastodon have a tooled thru axle vs. a lever thru axle? Is there an advantage to it (theft??) Typically always have tools along but seems like the lever takes forgetting a tool out of the equation. Thanks for the help


I had the same question,guessing it's to save some space. The width of this fork is big and having the lever hanging out there is just asking to break it off.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Labs said:


> Quick question...why does the Mastodon have a tooled thru axle vs. a lever thru axle? Is there an advantage to it (theft??) Typically always have tools along but seems like the lever takes forgetting a tool out of the equation. Thanks for the help


I'd expect stiffness/strength to be a factor. The tooled Hexlock SL axle can be a lot less hollow than the QR15.
Easier to use with gloves too.

I think QR is great if you're racing and losing places with each second during a tube change. But otherwise tooled has a lot of advantages.


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you knew Mike, you wouldn't have that opinion. Mike is as straight and honest as they come, at times brutally so. If Mike puts his opinion out on a public forum, its straight up.
> 
> If folks really must have their questions answered to save them from buyer's constipation, send me a PM and I will do my best to answer said questions with proper grammar


It has nothing to do with Mike as a person. It's all about his formating. When you stray from normal academically accepted styles that have been used for centuries things become harder to read.​


----------



## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

Volsung said:


> It has nothing to do with Mike as a person. It's all about his formating. When you stray from normal academically accepted styles that have been used for centuries things become harder to read.​


Wow, anal much? Isn't there a forum for language composition Nazis where you'd be much happier than here amongst all of us bicycle cavemen? Seriously, get a life.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Volsung said:


> It has nothing to do with Mike as a person. It's all about his formating. When you stray from normal academically accepted styles that have been used for centuries things become harder to read.​


Don't get your point. He says this:

"The takeaway you should get is that the differences in these forks amount to a hill of beans once they are dialed in: Both feel great -- stiff, supple, capable, adjustable -- and I could happily ride either.

The only other difference then, comes down to the ability to run a wider range of tires in Mastodon, and for me that was the deciding factor in selling the orange bike with the Fox fork.

Some will want more detail than that -- and they should ask specific questions below!"

Seems pretty straightforward to me.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I just come here to watch the train wrecks.
I'll be back later....I'm off to ride my Mastodon.


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Has anyone opened one of these up yet to adjust travel? 

My Pro Ext set at 100mm still has 1" of extra stanchion above at max travel. Per Mantitou's service manual, my fork should only be adjusted downward towards 80mm. But I'm trying to figure out why spacers couldn't be removed to give 120mm without increasing the ride height at all.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

BIke N Gear said:


> Has anyone opened one of these up yet to adjust travel?
> 
> My Pro Ext set at 100mm still has 1" of extra stanchion above at max travel. Per Mantitou's service manual, my fork should only be adjusted downward towards 80mm. But I'm trying to figure out why spacers couldn't be removed to give 120mm without increasing the ride height at all.


I haven't taken it apart yet, but the longer stancions( there is 2 different part numbers but niether say std or ext) and longer air spring in the extended is the reason. That extra inch is to keep a tall tire from hitting the crown.
I have the 120 and it has about 1 inch extra also


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

the mayor said:


> I haven't taken it apart yet, but the longer stancions( there is 2 different part numbers but niether say std or ext) and longer air spring in the extended is the reason. That extra inch is to keep a tall tire from hitting the crown.
> I have the 120 and it has about 1 inch extra also


also, i think, to keep the reverse arch from pounding through your downtube.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mikesee said:


> also, i think, to keep the reverse arch from pounding through your downtube.


That was the first thing I checked when I mounted.....because many years ago.....


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

How do you guys fill this with air? I've never owned an air shock or fork before and my pump is only rated to 90psi..


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> How do you guys fill this with air? I've never owned an air shock or fork before and my pump is only rated to 90psi..


shock pump. You need one


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

the mayor said:


> shock pump. You need one


Thanks


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

The Bluto *comes* with a shock pump if you buy it aftermarket. 

Manitou is robbing you guys.

:nono:


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm getting a nice ride on a 120 ext pro at 60psi. I weigh 200#. No complaints.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Shinkers said:


> The Bluto *comes* with a shock pump if you buy it aftermarket.
> 
> Manitou is robbing you guys.
> 
> :nono:


Bluto could come with a ham sandwich and a pallet of cupcakes and it still wouldn't be worth riding.

YMMV, clearly...


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm getting a nice ride on a 120 ext pro at 60psi. I weigh 200#. No complaints.


I'm guessing ktmneilo is refering a tire pump....which doesn't work very well


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Bluto could come with a ham sandwich and a pallet of cupcakes and it still wouldn't be worth riding.
> 
> YMMV, clearly...


Wait... Would it be a voucher for a ham sandwich or an actual shrink wrapped ham sandwich? And are the cupcakes assorted?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Bluto could come with a ham sandwich and a pallet of cupcakes and it still wouldn't be worth riding.
> 
> YMMV, clearly...


Rock Shox is really ripping us off by not supplying ham sammiches and cupcakes.
And would it kill them to put on a pot of coffee?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Rock Shox is really ripping us off by not supplying ham sammiches and cupcakes.
> And would it kill them to put on a pot of coffee?


The thing is, the sandwich and coffee would probably be pretty nasty, ya know, from sitting in the box for so long.

Give Keifer a break, he's just a kid, his funds are limited, so he's mad about having splurged on another fork and probably can't afford the upgrade.

At least we got affordable health care...


----------



## scot_douglas (May 8, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> and don't forget about Mother's Day!


Who are you? Jonshonda?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The thing is, the sandwich and coffee would probably be pretty nasty, ya know, from sitting in the box for so long.
> 
> Give Keifer a break, he's just a kid, his funds are limited, so he's mad about having splurged on another fork and probably can't afford the upgrade.
> 
> At least we got affordable health care...


Who the Hell is keifer?


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

NYrr496 said:


> Wait... Would it be a voucher for a ham sandwich or an actual shrink wrapped ham sandwich? And are the cupcakes assorted?


Probably freeze dried, and I was wrong about the cupcakes -- they're actually donut holes.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Probably freeze dried, and I was wrong about the cupcakes -- they're actually donut holes.


They were cupcakes....but there is a recall and they are being replaced with donut holes.
SRAM is very good with recalls. Practice makes perfect.


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

mikesee said:


> also, i think, to keep the reverse arch from pounding through your downtube.


Non-issue on my bike. Plenty of clearance.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

BIke N Gear said:


> Non-issue on my bike. Plenty of clearance.


Wow -- you have a SlingShot fatbike?!


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Wow -- you have a SlingShot fatbike?!


More like 2.5" of clearance when bottomed out.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

scot_douglas said:


> Who are you? Jonshonda?


Just don't want the mom's left out, they are the reason we're here


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Who the Hell is keifer?


He's the guy who thinks Manitou needs to buy us brunch.


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Edit: Deleted. This is stupid and not worth my time. 

Stop using my name on a public forum Ben, no one knows who you're talking about. Don't patronize me. I'm a grown ass man that can afford to buy any fork that I want. 

You don't know me, so don't pretend that you do.


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Shouldn't my fork come with a star nut?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> Shouldn't my fork come with a star nut?


Nope. But any shop will be able to dig one up for you.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> Shouldn't my fork come with a star nut?


Star nut comes with headsets. Or you can buy one for $2 at any shop....and you can pick up a pump while you're there.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> Edit: Deleted. This is stupid and not worth my time.
> 
> Stop using my name on a public forum Ben, no one knows who you're talking about. Don't patronize me. I'm a grown ass man that can afford to buy any fork that I want.
> 
> You don't know me, so don't pretend that you do.


You're not you when you're hungry.
You need a snickers.
Manitou doesn't include that either.


----------



## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

the mayor said:


> you're not you when you're hungry.
> You need a snickers.
> Manitou doesn't include that either.


lmfao..


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shinkers said:


> Edit: Deleted. This is stupid and not worth my time.
> 
> Stop using my name on a public forum Ben, no one knows who you're talking about. Don't patronize me. I'm a grown ass man that can afford to buy any fork that I want.
> 
> You don't know me, so don't pretend that you do.


I have you blocked because your "grown up arse" is not acting so grown up.

You get treated they way you act. In this case, you're acting closer to your shoe size than your age, which is why you're getting ridiculed.

FYI, 22yo is a loooong ways from grown up. Listen more, post less, and when you post... post from experience.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Okay, I'm gonna post a little review, mostly cuz I'm bored with nothing worthwhile to do ... van is getting serviced.

Bluto: Three different forks used on four fat bikes and a tandem fatty, 80, 100, 120. First edition through current edition, first one blew a damper, otherwise worked as advertised. For a "widened" Reba, the Bluto is functional, new damper works fine, flex and stiction are noticeable when pushed hard. It's a decent entry level fork, fine for lighter riders and recreational use.

Wren: Three forks, 150, 150, 110, used on a Mutz and a tandem fatty. First fork blew a damper, I replaced it , then later the steerer tube came loose in the crown, replacement fork worked fine. The Wren is a good idea that suffers from poor tolerances, lackluster damper design, and in my opionion it needs improved axle/dropout design to prevent torsion and asymmetrical leg movement. The Wren is burly, and though it's a bit "loose", it takes a beating and until recently it was the only choice for hard charging, long travel, and Clydes.

Mastodon: 120mm EXT, set at 120mm with factory set up, 60psi, mounted on a large Kona Wozo, wheels run to date 27.5 x 3.8 Minions and 29 x 3 Minions.

The Mastodon is a high end fork, so comparing it to a Bluto or a Wren is really not rational; a fair comparison would be a Fox 34 or a Pike. The Mastodon makes my Wozo ride like my Hendrix/Pike plus bike, stability, damping, responsiveness are comparable. I like my Pike, but the Mastodon feels a little smoother, like Mikesee said, the Mastodon disappears under you so you don't think about.

Im a huge gear fiddler, I tend to mess with fork set up during my first few rides. The Mastodon is the first fork I've ridden that I did not fiddle with until after multiple rides. Even now, all I've done is reduce pressure.

I have not messed with the damper side, but I have had the air side apart, very simple clip system (like Wren) that is an easy to use, no mess system, and requires minimal time and effort to adjust (like Pike).

My Wozo is designed to run an 80mm travel fork with a typical A-C, Bluto 100mm or similar, so I had some concerns about getting the Mastodon EXT 120mm fork with the added 20mm A-C on top of going up 20mm in travel. Put simply, it's not a problem. 

I like slack, but fat hardtails are typically 69-70deg hta, so going from ~69.5 hta to a 67.5 hta was a positive change, bringing the bike alive both by improving tracking at speed, also increasing rideability in tech and off jumps. Think More Playful.

The Mastodon is stout, responsive, and well dampened.

I like it 

Full disclosure: I have no ties to industry, I pay for all my gear, much to the disgust of my banker, the lovely and talented Mrs Nurse Ben.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

All that typing....
And not one mention of the pump that Manitou is stealing from us...
Nor any suggestions as to what brunch should be provided.
#fakenews


----------



## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> You get treated they way you act.


I see people calling you out on your pompous ways in almost every thread you post in.



Nurse Ben said:


> Yep, that's why I'm not gonna get involved in discussions, comparisons, or give detailed feedback on this fork.


:thumbsup:

Maybe next time you post your detailed feedback you should start a new thread so it can be all about you. Like we need 3 Wozo threads.


----------



## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

You win Ben. I give up. You are always right, everyone else but Mike C is always wrong. You are the best at everything and know more than the engineers that design every product ever.

Congratulations. 

Keep me blocked and I'll keep you blocked and we'll all be a happy family again. 

Get over yourself, and take your own advice.


----------



## VitaliT (Jan 17, 2015)

the mayor said:


> All that typing.... And not one mention of the pump that Manitou is stealing from us... Nor any suggestions as to what brunch should be provided. #fakenews


 So what German:A forks coming also without pumps, but they have carbon stanchions and steerer. you also can choose one of 3 standards 135, 142 or retard roxpoks 150

*Nurse Ben*: can you compare mastodon to latest carbon German:A Flame wide carbon version?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> Keep me blocked and I'll keep you blocked and we'll all be a happy family again.
> 
> .


If you 2 jabronies have each other blocked.....how are you replying to each other?


----------



## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

Getting all a bit Trumpish in this thread


----------



## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)




----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Smithhammer said:


>


Bingo.

Fork looks to be the fat bike equivalent of the Mattoc - just as the Magnum is the 29+ version of the Mattoc.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I love trains, it's been a while since I rode one, this should be intetesting...


----------



## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Maybe some pertinent info would help this thread. Not much set-up documentation came with the fork.

Set-up guide link: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/45-35283-Mastodon-Setup-Guide.pdf

Carry on


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

radair said:


> Maybe some pertinent info would help this thread. Not much set-up documentation came with the fork.
> 
> Set-up guide link: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/45-35283-Mastodon-Setup-Guide.pdf
> 
> Carry on


The air pressures on that chart are a little high in my book.
I weight 165ish....with a 120 Pro ext...I'm running 50psi
Nurse Ben said he's running 60 psi and weighs close to 200.
YMMV


----------



## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

So that added pound over the bluto is easily compensated for by improved function?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Blinkz said:


> So that added pound over the bluto is easily compensated for by improved function?


Do you think you could notice a pound?

It's a nice, smooth and stiff fork....that does what a fork is supposed to do.

I didn't think the Bluto was awful....and once I gave it a little love ( right amount of oil and SlickHoney in it's nether regions)....it worked pretty good


----------



## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

I have no idea if i could notice a pound. haha some people make a big deal out of a few grams so a pound sounds like a big deal. I take it people aren't noticing the pound?



the mayor said:


> Do you think you could notice a pound?
> 
> It's a nice, smooth and stiff fork....that does what a fork is supposed to do.
> 
> I didn't think the Bluto was awful....and once I gave it a little love ( right amount of oil and SlickHoney in it's nether regions)....it worked pretty good


----------



## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Blinkz said:


> I have no idea if i could notice a pound. haha some people make a big deal out of a few grams so a pound sounds like a big deal. I take it people aren't noticing the pound?


A seat post is like 200g and a dropper is pushing 600 in most cases. No one complains about the pound there.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Blinkz said:


> I have no idea if i could notice a pound. haha some people make a big deal out of a few grams so a pound sounds like a big deal. I take it people aren't noticing the pound?


You have a Farley EX, right?
That's a 35 lb bike.
I bet you like it.
So, if it was 36 lbs.....would you hate it?
Considering a person fluctuates a few pounds a day....


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

the mayor said:


> The air pressures on that chart are a little high in my book.
> I weight 165ish....with a 120 Pro ext...I'm running 50psi
> Nurse Ben said he's running 60 psi and weighs close to 200.
> YMMV


Good info. I'm a little lighter than you so I used just under 50 psi and it was quite plush. Thanks, the chart would have had it in the 70s.



Blinkz said:


> So that added pound over the bluto is easily compensated for by improved function?


The improvement over my recently serviced Bluto is dramatic. Completely transforms the bike.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

radair said:


> Good info. I'm a little lighter than you so I used just under 50 psi and it was quite plush. Thanks, the chart would have had it in the 70s.
> 
> The improvement over my recently serviced Bluto is dramatic. Completely transforms the bike.


I just started playing with the IVA.....lots to play with on this fork


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Smithhammer said:


>


Do you know anything about this particular train wreck?

This is an interesting one:








https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montparnasse_derailment


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

andytiedye said:


> Do you know anything about this particular train wreck?


That trainwreck came with a pump.....and brunch.
Brunch is just breakfast....but it's served with a slice of cantelope.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

solarplex said:


> A seat post is like 200g and a dropper is pushing 600 in most cases. No one complains about the pound there.


Sweet, so these forks are like having 6 dropper posts.


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, I'm gonna post a little review, mostly cuz I'm bored with nothing worthwhile to do ... van is getting serviced.
> 
> Wren: Three forks, 150, 150, 110, used on a Mutz and a tandem fatty. First fork blew a damper, I replaced it , then later the steerer tube came loose in the crown, replacement fork worked fine. The Wren is a good idea that suffers from poor tolerances, lackluster damper design, and in my opinion it needs improved axle/dropout design to prevent torsion and asymmetrical leg movement. The Wren is burly, and though it's a bit "loose", it takes a beating and until recently it was the only choice for hard charging, long travel, and Clydes.


Your axle issues have been solved with a new bolt on rather than QR style. As you know the older problems were already corrected. The damper has also seen small changes that most people will never even realize.


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## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

True the ex is not light to start and I probably fluctuate in weight and amounts of gear carried by pounds. I guess I was thinking adding a pound onto the fork might be more noticeable if it effects steering input or popping the front wheel up for misc trail objects.

I really have zero idea though so that's why I asked haha.

The fox fork comes in closer to the bluto in weight from what I read and functions like the mammoth. So I guess mikesee didn't seem to find the weight an issue. Not sure if the weight I saw was accurate though.



the mayor said:


> You have a Farley EX, right?
> That's a 35 lb bike.
> I bet you like it.
> So, if it was 36 lbs.....would you hate it?
> Considering a person fluctuates a few pounds a day....


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Sweet, so these forks are like having 6 dropper posts.


No....not really.
Cuz we all knowz Mo' droppers....Mo' problems


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Bluto-Mastodon side by side and my B-fat Bucksaw with 120mm fork.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Haha. Damn, Bluto looks like something you get at 7-11 compared to the Mastadon.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

How do you like the +20mm on the Saw?

notice any change in handling?

Mine arrives tomorrow... psyched.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Shifty Bits said:


> How do you like the +20mm on the Saw?
> 
> notice any change in handling?


This fork is massive. I replaced a 120mm Bluto on my B-Fat Bucksaw with a Mastodon. Since I didn't change the travel it didn't change the handling. Overall I can't imagine riding this bike with a 100mm fork. Riding this weekend for the most part I didn't notice the fork which is really good. It did what it should do, and it felt stiff. It was very similar to my Fox 34 as far as stiffness and overall feel. I can't really add much more that hasn't already been said. I am looking forward to getting more time on this.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Captain_America1976 said:


> This fork is massive. I replaced a 120mm Bluto on my B-Fat Bucksaw with a Mastodon. Since I didn't change the travel it didn't change the handling. Overall I can't imagine riding this bike with a 100mm fork. Riding this weekend for the most part I didn't notice the fork which is really good. It did what it should do, and it felt stiff. It was very similar to my Fox 34 as far as stiffness and overall feel. I can't really add much more that hasn't already been said. I am looking forward to getting more time on this.
> View attachment 1137337


Awesome, thanks!

Mine comes tomorrow (should have been here last week Wednesday but UPS decided to give it a circular route from NM to NH)... can't wait to slap it on and see how it handles.

Loving my XO1 carbon Saw... but know that the Mastodon is going to really unlock what it can do. Both 100mm travel up front and the Bluto are a disservice to that bike!


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Some rambling after a couple hundred miles on the Mastodon Pro 120 EXT
If it matters...I have it on a Borealis Echo and replacing a 100mm Bluto

Weight...it's exactly 319 grams difference from my 100 Bluto RL ( 9 inch steerer, star nut, race and axle). That's less than 3/4 of a pound.

I get 110mm of travel. I'm guessing the remaining 10 is in the bottom out bumper ( Maybe Dougal can confirm)

With the fork compressed....the EXT still has 1 1/2 inches between a Vee Snowshoe XL and the crown. Maybe the STD would be fine for those worried about the extra A to C.
For me...although it raised the front of the bike...I like it.

Pressure charts are way off. I weigh 165ish and am running 50 psi ( and tweaking that )

Playing with the IVA makes a big difference....

I want to open it up and see what's inside for spacers,oil level etc....but I'm having too much fun riding.

CONS....You need a allen wrench to remove the axle ( I have to remove the wheel to fit in my vehicle). But it works smooth.

I know I'm going to lose the air cap on the bottom of the fork. I ordered one to have on hand when I do.

It's a great fork....and I liked the Bluto....


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## Labs (Oct 7, 2016)

Captain_America1976 said:


> This fork is massive. I replaced a 120mm Bluto on my B-Fat Bucksaw with a Mastodon. Since I didn't change the travel it didn't change the handling. Overall I can't imagine riding this bike with a 100mm fork. Riding this weekend for the most part I didn't notice the fork which is really good. It did what it should do, and it felt stiff. It was very similar to my Fox 34 as far as stiffness and overall feel. I can't really add much more that hasn't already been said. I am looking forward to getting more time on this.
> View attachment 1137337


I have to ask because I am new to this "fork" game but if we are not too worried about 3/4 of a pound does 3/4 of an inch (+/-), the difference between the 120mm and 100mm make a huge difference to the weekend warrior?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Labs said:


> I have to ask because I am new to this "fork" game but if we are not too worried about 3/4 of a pound does 3/4 of an inch (+/-), the difference between the 120mm and 100mm make a huge difference to the weekend warrior?


On the interwebz....3/4 of a pound and 3/4 of an inch are huge.
In the real world.....not so much.
But....if you buy the 100....that's the most you get.
If you buy the 120...you can shorten or lengthen it.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

Labs said:


> I have to ask because I am new to this "fork" game but if we are not too worried about 3/4 of a pound does 3/4 of an inch (+/-), the difference between the 120mm and 100mm make a huge difference to the weekend warrior?


I think it's all about preference. 20mm will have minimal effect on how the bike rides. Mine has been 120 since I built it, and I am happy with it that way. Where I ride and how I ride I prefer to have 120 front travel. I use it all, and I rarely have a harsh bottom out.


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## Labs (Oct 7, 2016)

the mayor said:


> On the interwebz....3/4 of a pound and 3/4 of an inch are huge.
> In the real world.....not so much.
> But....if you buy the 100....that's the most you get.
> If you buy the 120...you can shorten or lengthen it.


Thanks for the replies guys, makes sense.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I want the 150 Pro but cant decide on the STD or EXT. I don't want the added height of the EXT. The biggest fat tire I run is the VanHelga. I do have a 29" minion 2.5 wheelset that I run. 

Will the STD handle a 29" 2.5 Minion


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

the mayor said:


> Some rambling after a couple hundred miles on the Mastodon Pro 120 EXT
> If it matters...I have it on a Borealis Echo and replacing a 100mm Bluto
> 
> Weight...it's exactly 319 grams difference from my 100 Bluto RL ( 9 inch steerer, star nut, race and axle). That's less than 3/4 of a pound.
> ...


Wait a second.... Borealis Echo... high levels of sarcasm in replies... the faint smell of bengay and Manhattans... ha! It's THE mayor!

We're gonna be fat bike fork twinsies.

I'm sure this will make you vomit a little in your mouth.

But then again, I never ride, so... small chance then of such public embarrassment.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Shifty Bits said:


> the faint smell of bengay and Manhattans...


You call it faint smell....I call it distinctive odor.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> I want the 150 Pro but cant decide on the STD or EXT. I don't want the added height of the EXT. The biggest fat tire I run is the VanHelga. I do have a 29" minion 2.5 wheelset that I run. With the STD handle a 29" 2.5 Minion


Maybe someone with an STD can chime in?


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe someone with an STD can chime in?


I don't know if that was intentional or not but it just reads funny. Good work!


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## litespeedaddict (Feb 18, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe someone with an STD can chime in?


 Dude...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> I want the 150 Pro but cant decide on the STD or EXT. I don't want the added height of the EXT. The biggest fat tire I run is the VanHelga. I do have a 29" minion 2.5 wheelset that I run.
> 
> Will the STD handle a 29" 2.5 Minion


The first thing that comes to mind is why is someone looking at a 150mm fork worried about an extra 20mm a-c.
But to each his own.

Like I said....My EXT has about 1 1/2 inches to the crown with a Vee ShoeXL...which is a big tire. So, in theory, that 2.5 Minion should fit.

BUT....seeing the 150 has different damper rod and stanchions...it puts a twist on that theory.

The only other area is the reverse arch...which on my bike has plenty of room. I had a funky 29er frame 10 years ago and put a DT reverse arch fork on it. It hit....and of course, it hit hard.

I know Dan Mutz ....of Foes Mutz fame...has a few 150s at his shop in Alton, NH. Give Likin Bikin a call

https://www.facebook.com/LikinBikin...09464438090/10154517490328091/?type=3&theater


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

the mayor said:


> The first thing that comes to mind is why is someone looking at a 150mm fork worried about an extra 20mm a-c.
> But to each his own.
> 
> Like I said....My EXT has about 1 1/2 inches to the crown with a Vee ShoeXL...which is a big tire. So, in theory, that 2.5 Minion should fit.
> ...


I like the way my Mutz climbs now with the 120 Bluto. If I go to the 150 Mastodon I want the STD version.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> I like the way my Mutz climbs now with the 120 Bluto. If I go to the 150 Mastodon I want the STD version.


Ahhh...I got it.
adding a 50mm taller fork will make it feel the same.
A 70mm taller fork would just ruin everything.


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## Greenhead12 (May 17, 2017)

How is the clearance on downtube with reverse arc? I have a fat boy carbon, which they didn't curve the downtube to clear crowns. I want one but concerned it won't clear.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Greenhead12 said:


> How is the clearance on downtube with reverse arc? I have a fat boy carbon, which they didn't curve the downtube to clear crowns. I want one but concerned it won't clear.


It should be fine. I have a couple inches on a Borealis.
The only time I've seen issues with reverse arch is back when bikes had steep head angles and short/sharp head tube/down tube joints.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> I like the way my Mutz climbs now with the 120 Bluto. If I go to the 150 Mastodon I want the STD version.


Get the 140mm STD and adjust it to taste. The Mutz really doesnt fit the tires sizes that demand an EXT, ie 29+, 4.5, etc...

I'm kinda suprised you like the 120mm Bluto, thats shorter travel than the short travel shock setting.

You'll like the Mastodon, it's a very nice fork.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Get the 140mm STD and adjust it to taste. The Mutz really doesnt fit the tires sizes that demand an EXT, ie 29+, 4.5, etc...
> 
> I'm kinda suprised you like the 120mm Bluto, thats shorter travel than the short travel shock setting.
> 
> You'll like the Mastodon, it's a very nice fork.


I never said I liked the Bluto... I said, I like the way my Mutz climbs with the Bluto. 

The 150 STD will change it but the 150 EXT will really change it.

I've had Dillinger 5s on the Mutz no problem.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> I never said I liked the Bluto... I said, I like the way my Mutz climbs with the Bluto.
> 
> The 150 STD will change it but the 150 EXT will really change it.
> 
> I've had Dillinger 5s on the Mutz no problem.


So the Dillinger may be too tall, but if it fits the Bluto...

Someone needs to pick up an STD, do some testing, and give the Mastodon virgins a little "heads up"


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

UC just replenished their stock (thanks for the VIP15 tip, somebody). I'm in on the 120mm Pro Ext. It's going on my short-CS hardtail with all of it's 4.8" wide-tired glory!


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## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Greenhead12 said:


> How is the clearance on downtube with reverse arc? I have a fat boy carbon, which they didn't curve the downtube to clear crowns. I want one but concerned it won't clear.


Fits my Medium Carbon Fatboy with room to spare.


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

So, the 120 Pro STD is mounted up to my Bucksaw carbon.

I only had time last night for a quick spin to the neighborhood trailhead and quick sample of some dirt... and I need to get the settings dialed in.. but even in that short bit I could tell the difference in stiffness/tracking.

Other things to note... 

- It's quite the tight fight to get the front wheel arm past the fork leg.. in fact, you have to force it a touch to get it over the hump. It scratched up the bottom of the white "Mastadon Pro" decal. NBD, I'm probably going to take all of the decals off except for the red M.

- You can tell you got an early version of the fork when they send you the tuning guide for a magnum pro and the spacers for the mattoc. Lol

- Wish they printed travel/sag on the stanchions... makes set up that much easier

Weekend weather looking beautiful... gonna get some miles in on it for sure!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shifty Bits said:


> So, the 120 Pro STD is mounted up to my Bucksaw carbon.
> 
> I only had time last night for a quick spin to the neighborhood trailhead and quick sample of some dirt... and I need to get the settings dialed in.. but even in that short bit I could tell the difference in stiffness/tracking.
> 
> ...


Okay, I give up: what's a front wheel arm and what is this hump you speak of?


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## Shifty Bits (Aug 28, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, I give up: what's a front wheel arm and what is this hump you speak of?


Hahaha yep not very clear.

The front wheel holder on my Thule X2 hitch rack. The fork is so wide its interfering with the arm when you try to raise it up to lock in the front wheel.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Anyone know why they did not include the HBO of the Mattoc? Noting came up in my searching. I really like that feature on my Mattoc but it would not stop me from buy the Mastodon.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Shifty Bits said:


> So, the 120 Pro STD is mounted up to my Bucksaw carbon.
> 
> Weekend weather looking beautiful... gonna get some miles in on it for sure!


You are so proud to have a STD, aren't you.
Hmmm...we should ride. I will bring some big tires to see what really fits the STD.
What are you running for tires? And did you check to see what clearance you have between the crown with it depressed?


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## Labs (Oct 7, 2016)

Shifty Bits said:


> Hahaha yep not very clear.
> 
> The front wheel holder on my Thule X2 hitch rack. The fork is so wide its interfering with the arm when you try to raise it up to lock in the front wheel.


Shifty,
Same rack, same issue. Instead of bringing the arm all the way to the top of the tire, at near 90 degrees, I bring the arm up to about 60 degrees, just shy of the bottom of the fork. No rubbing this way and I can't believe there is any way this is less stable for keeping the bike in place. I've had no issues and no more fork/arm rubbing.


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## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

one of my EXts gave me an STD once.

DAD JOKES!

Except I'm not a dad and I had to seek treatment.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Volsung said:


> one of my EXts gave me an STD once.
> 
> DAD JOKES!
> 
> Except I'm not a dad and I had to seek treatment.


ONE of your EX Ts?
How many T girls have you had?
I'm not judging you....I'm just asking questions.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

STD 140 pro ordered today from UC. Not at bad price with vip15.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No negative feedback on the Mastodon?

Not suprised, Manitou did it right.

It was worth the wait.


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> No negative feedback on the Mastodon?
> 
> Not suprised, Manitou did it right.
> 
> It was worth the wait.


What is nice is that they are building upon a solid platform. Their dorado air and MC2 dampers are very, very good.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Vespasianus said:


> What is nice is that they are building upon a solid platform. Their dorado air and MC2 dampers are very, very good.


I never rode a Manitou before the Mastodon now I want to replace my Pike with a Mattoc


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Finally got my first ride on the Mastodon. First I messed around on some some small jumps and choppy terrain to get it set up. Ended up with 105 PSI air, 6 clicks OUT on the rebound, MAX on low speed and 2 clicks out on the high speed. I weigh 260 lbs.
At first I was kind of indifferent to how it rode, but then I took a super nasty rock filled downhill run with it and I was blown away at how well it soaked up nasty rock sections. I bombed one area that had soccer ball sized rocks buried in the trail for about 30 yards and the Mastodon smoothed it out like it was nothing.
Then I did some high speed downhill sections and man this thing tracks great. I've never ridden a fork that doesn't dive or feel like its made of marshmallows in the corners.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

KTMNealio said:


> Finally got my first ride on the Mastodon. First I messed around on some some small jumps and choppy terrain to get it set up. Ended up with 105 PSI air, 6 clicks OUT on the rebound, MAX on low speed and 2 clicks out on the high speed. I weigh 260 lbs.
> At first I was kind of indifferent to how it rode, but then I took a super nasty rock filled downhill run with it and I was blown away at how well it soaked up nasty rock sections. I bombed one area that had soccer ball sized rocks buried in the trail for about 30 yards and the Mastodon smoothed it out like it was nothing.
> Then I did some high speed downhill sections and man this thing tracks great. I've never ridden a fork that doesn't dive or feel like its made of marshmallows in the corners.


Are you coming from a bluto?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> No negative feedback on the Mastodon?


Negative feedback?
I got some:

Who's idea was it to put the air valve at the bottom of the fork?
I have to get down on my knees to put air in the damn thing.

And the air valve is right next to the disc rotor.
I have to put my sticky mits next to the rotor.

And it's tall. 
No big deal for me....but some won't like it.

And it weighs 319 grams more than my Bluto.
Adding 319 grams to a bicycle will make you .034 seconds slower.( or so I have read on this forum...so it has to be true)

Proprietary axle.....
So when you get dumb and leave your axle where you shouldn't....you're not going to find one very easily.

And it costs money.
Everything should be free. Occupy Manitou!


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I never rode a Manitou before the Mastodon now I want to replace my Pike with a Mattoc


Actually, I find the Pike and the Mattoc to be very similar but the Mattoc is better in the air and on big hits. You won't use as much travel on a Mattoc for any given hit but the fork will feel bottomless. The Mattoc with the IRT mod is very, very nice. I find the Pike and Mattoc (and the old MRP Stage) to be superior to a Fox in almost every way. Pikes sell and are popular but it just boggles my mind why more people don't ride Mattoc or MRP forks.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I never rode a Manitou before the Mastodon now I want to replace my Pike with a Mattoc


Welcome to the world of good suspension! Now everything else will feel terrible.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Negotiator50 said:


> Are you coming from a bluto?


My bike was full rigid. The other forks I speak of are either 10+ year old forks, RockShox Reba, or the Bluto on a demo bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Welcome to the world of good suspension! Now everything else will feel terrible.


Yes, isn't that the way it is!

I decided to give up the dream; I'm breaking down my 29+ wheels in favor of 27+, so my biggest wheel will be a 26 x 4.8.

So, I would really love to have some feedback on "test fits" for the STD fork: Does a 26 x 4.8 Minion fit an STD?

If so, how do I change my fork fron EXT to STD?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> If so, how do I change my fork fron EXT to STD?


So the P/N's different are the damper shaft and air shaft. Both different lengths.

It may or may not be possible to make the EXT compress lower. It will depend on the clearance of rebound-compression dampers and the internal stanchion butting.

You can shorten your fork short-term by simply hooking on the pump, holding it at the desired height and removing the pump.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> So the P/N's different are the damper shaft and air shaft. Both different lengths.
> 
> It may or may not be possible to make the EXT compress lower. It will depend on the clearance of rebound-compression dampers and the internal stanchion butting.
> 
> You can shorten your fork short-term by simply hooking on the pump, holding it at the desired height and removing the pump.


I see there are different air springs for EXT...but the rebound dampers are the same for the 120-140?

Dougal....you said earlier in this thread that you can add a spacer under the bottom out bumper ( even though the travel guide says not to)? If that's so...one could add 10mm under the bumper and take one out on top for more clearance and still have a 120 fork...and a lower ride height.

One of the guys at Manitou told me the stanchions are different...but part #s don't show that. ( I had another of their guys tell me the castings were different at Sea Otter)

On my 120 EXT...I have 1 1/2 " of clearance to the crown with Vee Snowshoe XL, which is a pretty tall tire.

I think I'm going to get a STD 120 and find out what fits. I talked to them today and they do not have any air shafts in stock and won't for about a month.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That won't help. I want to know if my biggest tire will fit the STD. I suspect it will, I probably should have gotten the STD, but I was planning to run taller tires.



Dougal said:


> So the P/N's different are the damper shaft and air shaft. Both different lengths.
> 
> It may or may not be possible to make the EXT compress lower. It will depend on the clearance of rebound-compression dampers and the internal stanchion butting.
> 
> You can shorten your fork short-term by simply hooking on the pump, holding it at the desired height and removing the pump.


----------



## locoyokel (Mar 9, 2008)

the mayor said:


> On my 120 EXT...I have 1 1/2 " of clearance to the crown with Vee Snowshoe XL, which is a pretty tall tire.


I have a 120 EXT, and I have less than an inch clearance with Buds on 80mm rims, and even the summer tires - 4.8 Jumbo Jim snakeskins on 65mm rims - have a bit less than an inch. Both setup tubeless, and both sets have been on the wheels over a year (so tires probably stretched out a bit).

Anyway it's probably a good idea to get some more feedback before assuming that fatter tires will fit on the STD version.


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## Dnek1999 (Apr 15, 2014)

Loving this fork! By far the smoothest yet stiffest fork I've ridden, the colors matching the 9.8 are a plus too!


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

How hard is it to change the 120 to 140 by moving spacers? Is that all that you have to do?


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Dnek1999 said:


> Loving this fork! By far the smoothest yet stiffest fork I've ridden, the colors matching the 9.8 are a plus too!


This may be remedial but what fork to fit the Farley geometry? I have a 7 and likely will only run the 5" or less tires on the stock 26" rims.

My wallet is aching......


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Dnek1999 said:


> Loving this fork! By far the smoothest yet stiffest fork I've ridden, the colors matching the 9.8 are a plus too!


I have the same bike and looking to get the fork. Did you end up going with the 100mm or 120mm version for the Farley?


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## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

Dnek1999 said:


> Loving this fork! By far the smoothest yet stiffest fork I've ridden, the colors matching the 9.8 are a plus too!


That is one mean looking bike!


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## Dnek1999 (Apr 15, 2014)

Negotiator50 said:


> I have the same bike and looking to get the fork. Did you end up going with the 100mm or 120mm version for the Farley?


I went with the 120, my thinking was with about 20mm of sag I would be at the same crown-axle height.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Dnek1999 said:


> I went with the 120, my thinking was with about 20mm of sag I would be at the same crown-axle height.


That's what I plan on doing. Have you noticed any difference? Is the front end feel high and does it affect your riding?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> I see there are different air springs for EXT...but the rebound dampers are the same for the 120-140?
> 
> Dougal....you said earlier in this thread that you can add a spacer under the bottom out bumper ( even though the travel guide says not to)? If that's so...one could add 10mm under the bumper and take one out on top for more clearance and still have a 120 fork...and a lower ride height.
> 
> ...


No problem at all with adding spacers under the B/O bumpers to increase clearance at full compression.

2 spacers (20mm) means you're at the same clearance as the EXT. But you'll have 20mm less travel than before.

Stanchions and lowers are the same. EXT has longer rods and a different spacer configuration. The P/N's seldom lie.


----------



## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I know the forks is new, but anybody using a front fender on the Mastodon yet? I may try and put different holes for the reverse arch in my Beaver Guard I'm using on my Bluto unless there is another option? After a Rock did some serious damage to my Minute Pro, I won't ride without one.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

the mayor said:


> If you 2 jabronies have each other blocked.....how are you replying to each other?


Massive street cred for proper plural use of jabroni.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Massive street cred for proper plural use of jabroni.


It is truly sad that we live in a world where there is a need for the plural of jabroni.


----------



## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

the mayor said:


> It is truly sad that we live in a world where there is a need for the plural of jabroni.


You guys are pretty funny. Perhaps I'm just easily amused. This is a really excellent fork and the more time on it the more I like it.

You guys debating 100 vs. 120 mm should just get the longer version and adjust as needed.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

radair said:


> You guys debating 100 vs. 120 mm should just get the longer version and adjust as needed.


Bingo. That is what I did.
The 120 EXT is 1 1/2" taller than my Bluto 100.
Yet, on my Echo...nothing but positive improvement in rocky, rooty and twisty New England.
The only draw back is a higher top tube...which doesn't bother me now...but may when the snow gets deep. If that's the case, I can just lower the travel using the pump ( I don't need the longer travel in snow anyways)


----------



## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

the mayor said:


> ... ( I don't need the longer travel in snow anyways)


People write that all the time but my experience is a lot different. Often times it's worse in winter.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

radair said:


> People write that all the time but my experience is a lot different. Often times it's worse in winter.


Being just north of Boston....we wish our trails were that smooth! Post hole city!
But...those are higher frequency bumps as opposed to bigger hits.
Either way...it's easy to adjust the travel with a pump.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Aresab said:


> I know the forks is new, but anybody using a front fender on the Mastodon yet? I may try and put different holes for the reverse arch in my Beaver Guard I'm using on my Bluto unless there is another option? After a Rock did some serious damage to my Minute Pro, I won't ride without one.


I tried to fit the fender from my Bluto and it didn't work, reverse arch didn't play well with my attachments. I'm sure there's a way.


----------



## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

A customer is running a 4.8 Jumbo Jim on a STD 120mm, he claims no issues with fit, anyone can confirm that? He did not have any pics!:madman:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> It is truly sad that we live in a world where there is a need for the plural of jabroni.


"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."

I just love that movie.


----------



## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> I tried to fit the fender from my Bluto and it didn't work, reverse arch didn't play well with my attachments. I'm sure there's a way.


Great, thanks for the reply. I've had Mucky Nutz fenders on my Mattoc , Nixon and Minute forks (also reverse arch);I may be able to use that and the Bluto one as templates to come up with something.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

LargeMan said:


> A customer is running a 4.8 Jumbo Jim on a STD 120mm, he claims no issues with fit, anyone can confirm that? He did not have any pics!:madman:


The only way to tell is let the air out and bottom out the fork (including the bottom out bumper) to see how close the tire comes to the crown.
No one on here seems to know....so I ordered a 120 STD to find out.


----------



## Blue66 (Sep 18, 2016)

Manitou Mastodon 120mm PRO STD and tyre clearance - you can find some answers here (nearly at the end of the article and only in German, but there are pics):

Im Manitou Mastodon Pro Test fühlen wir der neuen FATBike Federgabel auf den Zahn.


----------



## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

Blue66 said:


> Manitou Mastodon 120mm PRO STD and tyre clearance - you can find some answers here (nearly at the end of the article and only in German, but there are pics):
> 
> Im Manitou Mastodon Pro Test fühlen wir der neuen FATBike Federgabel auf den Zahn.


Nice, plenty of room on the STD, great find!


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Riddle me this......


If that article is the 120mm Pro STD and it fits the Snowshoe 2XL why the need for the EXT version?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Jeff_G said:


> Riddle me this......
> 
> If that article is the 120mm Pro STD and it fits the Snowshoe 2XL why the need for the EXT version?


It is very tight with a 2XL.
Might be tighter with some variations of the same tire. Then add in 29+ set ups.
And bigger tires coming.....
And finally.....liability.
The article says they could only get 107mm travel out of the fork. There is a little more compression in the bottom out bumpers. I got 113 with low pressure and a good drop.
The article says about 5mm between the 2XL and the crown...so....


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Makes sense. I don't see myself purchasing anything larger than the 2XL so a Comp std 100 is what I would get for my Farley. 

Right? 

What if I buy three? Can I get a deal somewhere I wonder????

The Pro is lighter, likely more than I need and $$$$ that I don't have.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Jeff_G said:


> Makes sense. I don't see myself purchasing anything larger than the 2XL so a Comp std 100 is what I would get for my Farley.
> 
> Right?
> 
> .


Here's some food for thought.
Buy the 120 STD
YOu can easily shorten it to 100 with the pump trick or opening it up and adding spacers.
You could also add ( according to Dougal) a spacer under the bottom out bumper if your tire is hitting the crown.

If you buy the 100....that's the most travel you can get. You can space down the 120 easier and have room to play with


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I got my 120 Pro today. I wanna convert it to 140. How hard is it?

edit: I found this video. Do you need the mattoc cassette tool?


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I got some loud high pitched snapping/pinging noises from my fork under heavy braking and abrupt g-outs yesterday. 
Anyone else have anything similar happen? I'm a little paranoid about something breaking..


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Blue66 said:


> Manitou Mastodon 120mm PRO STD and tyre clearance - you can find some answers here (nearly at the end of the article and only in German, but there are pics):
> 
> Im Manitou Mastodon Pro Test fühlen wir der neuen FATBike Federgabel auf den Zahn.


Yeah, that's what I figured, but the Manitou fit guide said different. Now I need to either swap parts on my EXT or sale it and get an STD.

Anyone know timelines for parts?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Aresab said:


> Great, thanks for the reply. I've had Mucky Nutz fenders on my Mattoc , Nixon and Minute forks (also reverse arch);I may be able to use that and the Bluto one as templates to come up with something.


I got the Mucky Nutz to fit, just used a set of holes further back to mount at the arch and finagled the leg Velcro.

The fork looks ridiculous huge with a Minion 2.8


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, that's what I figured, but the Manitou fit guide said different. Now I need to either swap parts on my EXT or sale it and get an STD.
> 
> Anyone know timelines for parts?


Air shaft is about a month out.
If you have to open it....my plan is to play with the spacers under the bottom bumper ( even though they say not to)


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> I got my 120 Pro today. I wanna convert it to 140. How hard is it?
> 
> edit: I found this video. Do you need the mattoc cassette tool?


You do need the tool. You can make your own from a cassette tool...but if you have to ask....you are probably better off buying the Mattoc tool kit which has the 3 sockets you need


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

the mayor said:


> You do need the tool. You can make your own from a cassette tool...but if you have to ask....you are probably better off buying the Mattoc tool kit which has the 3 sockets you need


Thanks. The dang tool is $60. I only see the one cassette tool with the hole. What are the 3 that you are talking about?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> Thanks. The dang tool is $60. I only see the one cassette tool with the hole. What are the 3 that you are talking about?


You are probably looking on Universal?
That is the kit with the milled cassette tool, milled 8mm socket and the milled large socket....but they just show the cassette tool.
I milled my own....but I have the equipment...It's worth the 60 bucks

Buy yourself a cheap oil level tool off ebay....and some fork oil from your local motorcycle shop...and you are on your way to the exciting career of a suspension technician!


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

KTMNealio said:


> I got some loud high pitched snapping/pinging noises from my fork under heavy braking and abrupt g-outs yesterday.
> Anyone else have anything similar happen? I'm a little paranoid about something breaking..


I can get it to make this noise if I brake super hard, then bounce on the front. So I'm thinking it's just the hub popping when it moves slightly in the fork.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> I can get it to make this noise if I brake super hard, then bounce on the front. So I'm thinking it's just the hub popping when it moves slightly in the fork.


Your hub should not be "moving slightly" in the fork.
Check your headset....things settle in after the first rides.
Probably best to bring it to a mechanic than ask the interwebz


----------



## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

Anyone know when the Mastodon Forks will be available in the UK?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Your hub should not be "moving slightly" in the fork.
> Check your headset....things settle in after the first rides.
> Probably best to bring it to a mechanic than ask the interwebz


Like they say, "if you gotta ask us, you best go to a real mechanic".

Installation considerations: improper headset install/adjustment, improper brake install/adjustment, and improper install of axle.

Yeah, it's hard to admit a mistake, but you'd be surprised what folks can miss, even when they have some skills. I was helping a buddy with problems he had on a new build, he complained of a loose headset and clunking.

He had his lower headset bearing upside down and he had interference between his headset top cap and the clamping area from his ultra shirt stem.

No one is perfect, but blaming the tool is generally not the answer and tends to make me raise an eyebrow.

Now if we were talking about the FOMN or its revised brethren. I'd like lean toward tool error


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

KTMNealio said:


> I got some loud high pitched snapping/pinging noises from my fork under heavy braking and abrupt g-outs yesterday.
> Anyone else have anything similar happen? I'm a little paranoid about something breaking..





KTMNealio said:


> I can get it to make this noise if I brake super hard, then bounce on the front. So I'm thinking it's just the hub popping when it moves slightly in the fork.


What frame do you have? My crappy Fyxation has made similar noises the entire time I've owned it.


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I tried to fit the fender from my Bluto and it didn't work, reverse arch didn't play well with my attachments. I'm sure there's a way.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

BIke N Gear said:


> View attachment 1139215
> View attachment 1139216


Yeah, I got mine done the other day.


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Volsung said:


> What frame do you have? My crappy Fyxation has made similar noises the entire time I've owned it.


It's a motobecane frame. But I greased the ends of the hub and torqued the axle down and it quit making that noise.


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

the mayor said:


> You are probably looking on Universal?
> That is the kit with the milled cassette tool, milled 8mm socket and the milled large socket....but they just show the cassette tool.
> I milled my own....but I have the equipment...It's worth the 60 bucks
> 
> Buy yourself a cheap oil level tool off ebay....and some fork oil from your local motorcycle shop...and you are on your way to the exciting career of a suspension technician!


The cheapest I can find the kit is ebay. $61

Manitou Mattoc Tool Kit | eBay


----------



## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

kntr said:


> Thanks. The dang tool is $60. I only see the one cassette tool with the hole. What are the 3 that you are talking about?


Flat ground 24mm socket, 8mm thin wall and the special cassette tool are what I assume he is speaking of... a little late to the show - DOH!

https://www.amazon.com/Manitou-Mattoc-Tool-Kit/dp/B00W4H7IT8


----------



## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

BIke N Gear said:


> View attachment 1139215
> View attachment 1139216


Is that the Standard or the EXT Version? How much travel, 100mm or 120mm?


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Fatpeak said:


> Is that the Standard or the EXT Version? How much travel, 100mm or 120mm?


Ext at 100mm.


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Has anyone played with the air cap volume adjust?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> Has anyone played with the air cap volume adjust?


I have. It can make a big difference


----------



## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

Has one of you tested a 4.8 inch tire in the standard Mastodon version 'Std.' ?


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

kntr said:


> Has anyone played with the air cap volume adjust?


I put the 4 tokens on top. Otherwise it was way too linear and I would blow through the stroke. It made a big difference


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Fatpeak said:


> Has one of you tested a 4.8 inch tire in the standard Mastodon version 'Std.' ?


I put my 4.8" in an STD once.

Oh wait.....wrong thread.


----------



## Dhugal (Aug 25, 2016)

Bike N Gear - How are you finding the 100mm EXT? Also, what made you decide on 100 vs 120?


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> I put the 4 tokens on top. Otherwise it was way too linear and I would blow through the stroke. It made a big difference


What was it set at stock?


----------



## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

kntr said:


> What was it set at stock?


Here you can download the PDF File with the Token/Travel/Spacer Guide.

Look Page 9 and Page 10 in the PDF File, there you will find the stock settings.

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-ProComp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Fatpeak said:


> Here you can download the PDF File with the Token/Travel/Spacer Guide.
> 
> Look Page 9 and Page 10 in the PDF File, there you will find the stock settings.
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Mastodon-ProComp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


Those are the travel spacers, not the volume spacers.

Volume spacers can be found here: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/46-32670_IVA-Install_Set-up.pdf


----------



## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Dhugal said:


> Bike N Gear - How are you finding the 100mm EXT? Also, what made you decide on 100 vs 120?


As it was, the Bluto at 100 jacked up the front end. This fork at 100 is even longer. I didn't want to screw up the geometry of the bike even further by going to 120.

The fork itself is far better than the Bluto.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Ill take it apart and see what its set at stock. I don't see where it says in the file. Where has everyone been setting theirs?

I'm 185 and have found 80 psi feels pretty good in the 120mm setting.


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

I just got back from a ride where I rode my pro across 80 feet of unburried railroad ties and it really rustled my jimmies.


----------



## RideMN (Sep 8, 2016)

Jeff_G said:


> I put my 4.8" in an STD once.
> 
> Oh wait.....wrong thread.


Lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I did a 17 mile ride today. The mastodon is so much better than the Bluto. It makes rocks and roots just disappear. I have been riding the same trails for 13 years and have been stravaing them for the last 3 or 4. I have 50 runs down one of the DH runs and today I beat my time by 10 seconds in a 3 minute DH. I couldn't believe how smooth the Mastodon made the trail feel. The Bluto would bounce around and give me blurry vision. In the 20 years I've been biking this is the best upgrade to a bike I have ever made... well besides when I tried disc brakes for the first time. 

Moral of the story... get one if you are on the fence.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

kntr said:


> What was it set at stock?


Mine was set with 1 token on top, 3 below.


----------



## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Just received my Pro EXT 120mm from Universal, what a nice beefy fork. Came in a retail box with an April build date. I did find it odd that it came with a Mattoc spacer kit, 2 spacers and both 26 and 27.5 bottom-out cones. I'm guessing since they are so similar it's to save costs. Anyone else have the same experience?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Just received my Pro EXT 120mm from Universal, what a nice beefy fork. Came in a retail box with an April build date. I did find it odd that it came with a Mattoc spacer kit, 2 spacers and both 26 and 27.5 bottom-out cones. I'm guessing since they are so similar it's to save costs. Anyone else have the same experience?


That is what Mastodons are coming with for now....and those aren't bottom out cones.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

the mayor said:


> That is what Mastodons are coming with for now....and those aren't bottom out cones.


What are they? They look just like the HBO cones from Mattoc (too lazy to go find the Mattoc box right now which should have them). The sticker say Mattoc spacer kit.

In any event I'm glad you were able to confirm I received what I was suppose to. The kit came with 2 spacers, I read in the travel adjust you need to put the same number on the rebound and compression, is that air spring and damper side or ? If so, I'd need 4 spacers to make my 120 a 100mm to match my Bluto. I going to try it at 120 either way and if I need more I'll ring Manitou, they have been very helpful over the years I have worked with them.


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Anyone know if you can retro a Mastodon onto an ICT and not have the crown cream the downtube when the bars are rotated?


----------



## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

mikesee said:


> Anyone know if you can retro a Mastodon onto an ICT and not have the crown cream the downtube when the bars are rotated?


I'm curious too...building one up now! I haven't found anything in the ICT forums.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Anyone know if you can retro a Mastodon onto an ICT and not have the crown cream the downtube when the bars are rotated?


I bet it will be tight if it clears at all.

FYI....Just put one on a Farley EX carbon.....the hi speed knob just hits the down tube. I am going to try a Salsa/ Cane Creek 3mm thicker base plate....it might just clear


----------



## Zacatac (Oct 10, 2016)

Hey mayor. I am looking at getting one for my farley ex carbon. Did you get the std or ext?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Zacatac said:


> Hey mayor. I am looking at getting one for my farley ex carbon. Did you get the std or ext?


It doesn't matter.....the crown is the same on either one.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Zacatac said:


> Hey mayor. I am looking at getting one for my farley ex carbon. Did you get the std or ext?


Hmmm....the 2018 Farley EX is supposed to come with a Mastodon.
Wonder how that's gonna work.


----------



## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

the mayor said:


> Hmmm....the 2018 Farley EX is supposed to come with a Mastodon.
> Wonder how that's gonna work.


Maybe it will have a minor redesign of the DT/HT area.


----------



## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

So its probably won't fit the ex8 as well?



the mayor said:


> I bet it will be tight if it clears at all.
> 
> FYI....Just put one on a Farley EX carbon.....the hi speed knob just hits the down tube. I am going to try a Salsa/ Cane Creek 3mm thicker base plate....it might just clear


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mohrgan said:


> Maybe it will have a minor redesign of the DT/HT area.


It costs a LOT of $$$$ to redo a bunch of molds. And this wasn't a big selling model.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Blinkz said:


> So its probably won't fit the ex8 as well?


I don't know.....trying to find one to fit.
I was thinking about grabbing one as they are starting to pop up on close out with 2018 models coming.


----------



## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

I'd let you use mine but I'm pretty sure you're not in mn. It's an awesome bike for me but not sure it would be worth having if you have the Carbon one. Unless that was someone else's.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> I bet it will be tight if it clears at all.
> 
> FYI....Just put one on a Farley EX carbon.....the hi speed knob just hits the down tube. I am going to try a Salsa/ Cane Creek 3mm thicker base plate....it might just clear


Use a thicker race?

Another option if you have an internal cup that's not built into the frame, is to use an external cup which will ~5-10mm; might have to special order or use an angle set.


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

the mayor said:


> I bet it will be tight if it clears at all.
> 
> FYI....Just put one on a Farley EX carbon.....the hi speed knob just hits the down tube. I am going to try a Salsa/ Cane Creek 3mm thicker base plate....it might just clear


What happens if you take the knob off? I already need a spacer on my frame (Q2) to clear the Bluto so I'm hoping I can stack a second spacer in there. It originally looked like the compression knob had enough clearance but after a few rides/crashes there was some blue anodizing marks on the downtube. Apparently 1mm is not enough clearance.


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Can someone talk me through the quick lowering of the travel via letting air out procedure? What is it actually doing inside? Trying to wrap my head around it before purchase. Never had a Manitou before. If there are unique terms for this feature by the brand point me to them so I can search.

For discussion sake: 120mm Pro STD set at 90 psi want to drop to 100mm.
"Connect shock pump, let out air and push down on fork crown to desired travel." is how I've heard it described.

1. Aiming for the same sag total %, are you at the same or lower PSI?

2. Has the feel of the fork settings changed? (not concerned with HTA discussions)

3. To raise it back up, you do what? Pump it up while pulling the lowers away from the crown?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bme107 said:


> Can someone talk me through the quick lowering of the travel via letting air out procedure? What is it actually doing inside? Trying to wrap my head around it before purchase. Never had a Manitou before. If there are unique terms for this feature by the brand point me to them so I can search.
> 
> For discussion sake: 120mm Pro STD set at 90 psi want to drop to 100mm.
> "Connect shock pump, let out air and push down on fork crown to desired travel." is how I've heard it described.
> ...


Hook the pump on and that connects positive and negative air chambers. Hold fork at desired length, remove pump and that is now the new "0" position.

You don't need to let any air out.


----------



## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

Is it possible to mount a 203 / 200mm disc for the brake on the Mastodon?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Fatpeak said:


> Is it possible to mount a 203 / 200mm disc for the brake on the Mastodon?


Why wouldn't you be able to?
It takes 180 stock.
Order the correct mount and boom......


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Here comes the dumbest question on the internet today. 

I commute year round on my Farley 7 (carbon fork) and therefore 80% of my miles are on the road. The remainder is offroad, singletrack etc. I'm 200+ with gear. But, I notice the weight when I have the rear rack, saddle bags etc. I also ride with what I've come to learn is a lot higher PSI than most. 13 rear 11 front for instance when I'm mostly on tar, dirt paths etc. I would run more in the front but it gets harsh coming through the handlebars. 

So, will adding the 3+ pounds to my front end be noticeable enough to bug me on my commutes? Or, will adding a 2 or 3 psi to the front offset the increased weight? 

$600 is a lot for me to spend on a bike upgrade so I appreciate the input.


----------



## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

Aresab said:


> Anyone know why they did not include the HBO of the Mattoc? Noting came up in my searching. I really like that feature on my Mattoc but it would not stop me from buy the Mastodon.


I'm wondering the same. What handles bottom out on the Mastedon? Just the bumper, or is there a non adjustable HBO equivalent in the Mastedon? Looking at parts list, is there any reason one couldn't swap in the entire Mc2 ably from the Mattoc/magnum (same part numbers). I'm a suspension newbie, so I'm pretty clueless on how important the HBO is and wanting to understand the minutia of how suspension works (currently reading through the Mattoc thread).


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

It's noticable. Also without a lockout you lose more power. I'm keeping my carbon fork for winter and using the Mastodon for summer.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Jeff_G said:


> Here comes the dumbest question on the internet today.


I'm sorry....but this isn't the dumbest question on the interwebz....or even this thread, today.
But you tried and gave it your best.....and that's what counts.


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

Also Jeff G, I've only ridden mine at Theo and Cuyuna so far. It's good for Theo but I skipped Brownie last week. It'd be nice at Leb but probably unnecessary at Elm. Those are the only local places I ride.


----------



## Blinkz (Apr 20, 2015)

Volsung said:


> Also Jeff G, I've only ridden mine at Theo and Cuyuna so far. It's good for Theo but I skipped Brownie last week. It'd be nice at Leb but probably unnecessary at Elm. Those are the only local places I ride.


Hey, I know some of those trails. I'll have to keep an eye out for a Mastadon when riding now.


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Volsung said:


> Also Jeff G, I've only ridden mine at Theo and Cuyuna so far. It's good for Theo but I skipped Brownie last week. It'd be nice at Leb but probably unnecessary at Elm. Those are the only local places I ride.


Theo is over half my single track miles. Some of the bumps, rocks, roots etc is why I am contemplating the shock. Especially some of the rogue trail that connects Glenwood and South. Lots of roots.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Jeff_G said:


> Here comes the dumbest question on the internet today.
> 
> I commute year round on my Farley 7 (carbon fork) and therefore 80% of my miles are on the road. The remainder is offroad, singletrack etc. I'm 200+ with gear. But, I notice the weight when I have the rear rack, saddle bags etc. I also ride with what I've come to learn is a lot higher PSI than most. 13 rear 11 front for instance when I'm mostly on tar, dirt paths etc. I would run more in the front but it gets harsh coming through the handlebars.
> 
> ...


Not necessary for the riding you do. Get a Lauf or stick with rigid.

Seriously, everyday commuting on a fat bike, even in dry weather?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

fotooutdoors said:


> I'm wondering the same. What handles bottom out on the Mastedon? Just the bumper, or is there a non adjustable HBO equivalent in the Mastedon? Looking at parts list, is there any reason one couldn't swap in the entire Mc2 ably from the Mattoc/magnum (same part numbers). I'm a suspension newbie, so I'm pretty clueless on how important the HBO is and wanting to understand the minutia of how suspension works (currently reading through the Mattoc thread).


You're a suspension newb.....but you want to redesign something you don't understand?
This fork has more features and adjustments than you will know what to do with.
Buy it and ride it


----------



## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

Quite honestly, that came across as quite condescending, though perhaps my writing led you to believe that I just showed up at this thread and asked questions; I have spent time with parts diagrams, watching Mattoc rebuild videos, and have read most of the Mattoc thread. Just because I don't currently understand everything doesn't mean that I am unable to understand, and the "resign" aspect is a pretty big stretch, especially since the Mastedon is primarily a widened and longer-legged Mattoc/Magnum. It was more theoretical musing, perhaps to be quick dispelled by someone who took it apart and found some minutia that didn't show up on the (not very detailed) parts lists. I could see Manitou doing that down the road or as an upgrade route; they did something similar with irt for the Mattoc. I would be interested to know (back to the primary question) whether the Mastedon only has a bumper at the bottom, or if it has a way to "absorb" excess energy upon bottom-out. I don't do $600 experiments (okay, I do, but not on my own dime).


----------



## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

the mayor said:


> I bet it will be tight if it clears at all.
> 
> FYI....Just put one on a Farley EX carbon.....the hi speed knob just hits the down tube. I am going to try a Salsa/ Cane Creek 3mm thicker base plate....it might just clear


Have you tried the +3mm race yet? if so does it clear, planning on the same for an EX8 so will have to order one if it does clear, only problem is they are not available in the UK, would have to be special order from the US


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Not necessary for the riding you do. Get a Lauf or stick with rigid.
> 
> Seriously, everyday commuting on a fat bike, even in dry weather?


Yes, Seriously.

I'm about three years into my adult bicycling hobby which I started on a Trek 8.4 DS. I have a five mile commute each way which happens to pass by fantastic single track within the Minneapolis city limits. Deer to the left of me, downtown skyline to the right. If I choose to add miles that day.

I purchased the Farley for Winter. Rode it home from the bike shop in the fall and hit the single track. Took it easy feeling out the bike and much to my surprise I set a personal record. I was also surprised that the Farley is much lighter than the 8.4. Also surprising to me and most others I chat with is that I am only 10 to 15% slower on my commute riding the Farley vs the 8.4.

Most importantly..... after riding the Farley for the winter I had a 25 mile ride in mild conditions so I pulled out the 8.4. Right tool for the job?

I was five miles in and was sad.

The Farley puts a smile on my face every time I ride it. The 8.4 has about 22 miles on it since the Farley purchase.

The Farley has about 5,000.

YMMV


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Anyone know why they did not include the HBO of the Mattoc? Noting came up in my searching. I really like that feature on my Mattoc but it would not stop me from buy the Mastodon.


I'm guessing that if you compress a fat bike fork hard enough to need HBO, you're probably going to get launched by the tyre on rebound. The fork already has a very good air spring and damper which handle the vast majority of all riding impacts.

Even on the Mattoc and Magnum most riders run HBO wide open.

Could HBO be retrofitted? I'm sure it could with enough work. But let me know if you actually need it.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Dougal said:


> I'm guessing that if you compress a fat bike fork hard enough to need HBO, you're probably going to get launched by the tyre on rebound. The fork already has a very good air spring and damper which handle the vast majority of all riding impacts.
> 
> Even on the Mattoc and Magnum most riders run HBO wide open.
> 
> Could HBO be retrofitted? I'm sure it could with enough work. But let me know if you actually need it.


Nah, it was just a question but you are probably right on a fat bike with all that tire. I do use 1 click of HBO on my Mattoc, it's a great feature. I did buy the Mastodon but wont be installing it for a bit as I'm back on my BH Lynx 6 for the summer.


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## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for the response, Dougal. It makes sense for the intended use, but I (and probably a bunch of others) would use the Mastedon primarily with plus tires. But still, it sounds like HBO is likely overkill even in that case.


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## calzonical (Aug 30, 2005)

*Measurements*

Looking for some measurements related to the Masties downtube clearance. I have a 2014 Carver Ti O'Beast (18 inch) I have contacted Forrest at Bikeman about fitting a Mastie but did not get an answer that inspired confidence.

Quite frankly I would not be looking to replace the waltworks rigid fork. But unfortunately I have recently dislocated my left Ulna and do not foresee riding rigid fork in my future.

Frame has a CK external bottom headset cup.

Bueller?


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Could someone clarify on this please:
1) If I put a Mastodon Pro Extended 100mm fork on my Farley 7 - will it rub the frame?
2) Also, I assume Mastodon can fit 29"+ with 3" tire without issues? I was going to buy Magnum Pro fork but seems with new Mastodon I can have one fork for both worlds - 26x4.8" and 29x3", correct? Thanks.


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## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

Mebaru said:


> Could someone clarify on this please:
> 1) If I put a Mastodon Pro Extended 100mm fork on my Farley 7 - will it rub the frame?
> 2) Also, I assume Mastodon can fit 29"+ with 3" tire without issues? I was going to buy Magnum Pro fork but seems with new Mastodon I can have one fork for both worlds - 26x4.8" and 29x3", correct? Thanks.


I can't answer #1, but for #2...

Manitou says max doing diameter of 758 and 798 mm for the standard and extended, respectively. I think surly lists the Knard at 772mm or so, which means you should be good to go with the ext.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mebaru said:


> Could someone clarify on this please:
> 1) If I put a Mastodon Pro Extended 100mm fork on my Farley 7 - will it rub the frame?
> 2) Also, I assume Mastodon can fit 29"+ with 3" tire without issues? I was going to buy Magnum Pro fork but seems with new Mastodon I can have one fork for both worlds - 26x4.8" and 29x3", correct? Thanks.


29+ works for an EXT, no idea on the STD.


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## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

Mebaru said:


> Could someone clarify on this please:
> 2) Also, I assume Mastodon can fit 29"+ with 3" tire without issues? I was going to buy Magnum Pro fork but seems with new Mastodon I can have one fork for both worlds - 26x4.8" and 29x3", correct? Thanks.


#2 4.8" fit on STD. look here https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/manitou-mastodon.847849/ and look here Im Manitou Mastodon Pro Test fühlen wir der neuen FATBike Federgabel auf den Zahn.


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Jeff_G said:


> Here comes the dumbest question on the internet today.
> 
> I commute year round on my Farley 7 (carbon fork) and therefore 80% of my miles are on the road.
> So, will adding the 3+ pounds to my front end be noticeable enough to bug me on my commutes? Or, will adding a 2 or 3 psi to the front offset the increased weight?


I have a Farley 7 and have only ever commuted on it in 29 x 3 form.

Even then, it was way slower than my usual CX bike. Like 2-3 minutes over a 25 minute ride.

You certainly don't need a Mastodon if you are spending 80% of your time on pavement.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Not sure if this was posted in this thread, but it looks like the 120MM cannot be set lower than 120 according to Hayes Tech support. I bought the 120 with an eye on the future but not sure how much of an impact the Pro EXT will have coming from a Bluto 100. With that said, the Bluto at 100mm on my DB El Oso creates a head angle way to steep for my liking so I wanted 120, but the EXT adds another 20mm on top of that.

Note from Hayes Tech:
The 120 cannot be lowered to 100 because of the difference in the length of the CSA. The travel spacers that came with the fork are meant to be spares in case you lose them when changing your travel.
End:


----------



## fotooutdoors (Jul 8, 2010)

Fatpeak said:


> #2 4.8" fit on STD. look here https://www.mtb-news.de/forum/t/manitou-mastodon.847849/ and look here Im Manitou Mastodon Pro Test fühlen wir der neuen FATBike Federgabel auf den Zahn.


Be careful with that second article. According to a translation upthread (my German is rusty), they didn't get full travel and has 5mm clearance at the crown. Working their numbers and the diameter of a 2xl backwards, that means that a 775mm diameter tire will exactly fit at full travel. In other words, I wouldn't stick a 29+ your in the standard unless you added an additional bottom out bumper (which would lose you 10mm travel). Personally, I would stick with the ext if you plan to run 29+.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Aresab said:


> Not sure if this was posted in this thread, but it looks like the 120MM cannot be set lower than 120 according to Hayes Tech support. I bought the 120 with an eye on the future but not sure how much of an impact the Pro EXT will have coming from a Bluto 100. With that said, the Bluto at 100mm on my DB El Oso creates a head angle way to steep for my liking so I wanted 120, but the EXT adds another 20mm on top of that.
> 
> Note from Hayes Tech:
> The 120 cannot be lowered to 100 because of the difference in the length of the CSA. The travel spacers that came with the fork are meant to be spares in case you lose them when changing your travel.
> End:


Might be something lost in translation there. Because you can always shorten a fork in travel and ride height.

Otherwise it wouldn't fully compress.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


----------



## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Might be something lost in translation there. Because you can always shorten a fork in travel and ride height.
> 
> Otherwise it wouldn't fully compress.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


I'm thinking your right, but all I asked Manitou was "what is the spacer config to lower the Pro EXT 120mm to 100mm" and that was his reply.

Dougal, do you have any thoughts on how to space it down to 100?

I'm thinking 2 more spacers under air piston for a total of 5 would do it and increase negative volume.

Thanks!


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Aresab said:


> I'm thinking your right, but all I asked Manitou was "what is the spacer config to lower the Pro EXT 120mm to 100mm" and that was his reply.
> 
> Dougal, do you have any thoughts on how to space it down to 100?
> 
> ...


The easiest way to make it a 100 is attach the pump...pull the fork down 20mm and remove the pump while compressed. simple way to test if you like a 100 vs 120 length.

Or...you can add spacers under the air piston.

I am playing with spacers on the 120 ext now....but in a different dirction.


----------



## teemui (Nov 12, 2015)

Manual says not to adjust the lower spacers, dunno why...


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

teemui said:


> Manual says not to adjust the lower spacers, dunno why...
> 
> View attachment 1141426


You can't figure that out?
If you take out too many spacers, the longer air shaft could hit the IVA.
It changes the air volume...which may or may not be a good thing.
And finally....the tire could hit the crown

If anyone with a STD wants to measure the length of their air shaft......lmk


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

The lower spacers must stay, they take of the slack for the length of the different models since lowers are common amongst all versions and are outside of the stanchions. My question was why Manitou told me I could not lower my 120 Pro EXT to 100, seems I could by adding the 2 spacers under the air piston. Since I have a Mattoc I am familiar with them and the process just the why as I doubt it would be an issue. Maybe the negative volume would be too much and it would ride odd, who knows.


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## teemui (Nov 12, 2015)

the mayor said:


> You can't figure that out?
> If you take out too many spacers, the longer air shaft could hit the IVA.
> It changes the air volume...which may or may not be a good thing.
> And finally....the tire could hit the crown
> ...


Well doesn't that effectively prevent shortening travel via spacers? How would the pump method you described work in long-term usage?

I'm a total suspension fork newbie trying to decide between 100mm and 120mm models...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Aresab said:


> I'm thinking your right, but all I asked Manitou was "what is the spacer config to lower the Pro EXT 120mm to 100mm" and that was his reply.
> 
> Dougal, do you have any thoughts on how to space it down to 100?
> 
> ...


Yes. Exactly that.

For the lower spacers. You can add but not subtract.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

teemui said:


> Well doesn't that effectively prevent shortening travel via spacers? How would the pump method you described work in long-term usage?
> 
> I'm a total suspension fork newbie trying to decide between 100mm and 120mm models...


I'm talking about the bottom spacers. You change travel with the top spacers.
What do you mean by "long term"? Worse case scenario is you have a attach the pump once in a while.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I plan on taking mine( 120 ext) apart again next week to play with travel.

I also ordered a 120 STD but recieve another EXT


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## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

the mayor said:


> I plan on taking mine( 120 ext) apart again next week to play with travel.
> 
> I also ordered a 120 STD but recieve another EXT


What tire size do you want to drive?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Fatpeak said:


> What tire size do you want to drive?


What's it to you? Do you even have one of these?
Have you opened one up?
I have 27.5x.3.8
I have 26x4.8
I have 29x3


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## emergencydoc (May 8, 2017)

LargeMan said:


> A customer is running a 4.8 Jumbo Jim on a STD 120mm, he claims no issues with fit, anyone can confirm that? He did not have any pics!:madman:


Here is my Mastodon STD with Jumbo Jim 4.8 on Marge Lite rims, exactly 26 mm clearance as recommended!


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

emergencydoc said:


> Here is my Mastodon STD with Jumbo Jim 4.8 on Marge Lite rims, exactly 26 mm clearance as recommended!
> 
> View attachment 1142576


Ummm....you are measuring the arch....which is a constant.
The clearance issue ( or nonissue) is with the crown when compressed


----------



## emergencydoc (May 8, 2017)

Yes, exactly, with the STD fork the crown can come below the arch so Manitou says you need 26 mm of clearance between the tire and the arch to avoid the crown hitting the tire at maximum compression. With the EXT fork which doesn't come below the arch as far you only need 6 mm clearance.

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/46-35406-SERVICE-NOTE-MASTODON-TIRE-SIZE.pdf


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

emergencydoc said:


> Yes, exactly, with the STD fork the crown can come below the arch so Manitou says you need 26 mm of clearance between the tire and the arch to avoid the crown hitting the tire at maximum compression. With the EXT fork which doesn't come below the arch as far you only need 6 mm clearance.
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/46-35406-SERVICE-NOTE-MASTODON-TIRE-SIZE.pdf


You should still air down the fork and check clearance.

Can you measure the diameter of the JJ 4.8, I'm curious if it's the same size as a Minion 4.8


----------



## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

emergencydoc said:


> Yes, exactly, with the STD fork the crown can come below the arch so Manitou says you need 26 mm of clearance between the tire and the arch to avoid the crown hitting the tire at maximum compression. With the EXT fork which doesn't come below the arch as far you only need 6 mm clearance.
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/46-35406-SERVICE-NOTE-MASTODON-TIRE-SIZE.pdf


Manitou recommends for 4.8 inches tire, the EXT variant. No STD variant.

The previous series of the fork has a mistake, Manitou fix the problem the fork for free.

Here you can read it: Das Manitou Mastodon Update bringt den vollen Federweg zurück!

The suspension fork does not use the entire spring travel. This is the mistake, Manitou repairs the free. All the new fork will no longer have the problem.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Fatpeak said:


> Manitou recommends for 4.8 inches tire, the EXT variant. No STD variant.
> 
> The previous series of the fork has a mistake, Manitou fix the problem the fork for free.
> 
> ...


The bottom-out bumper was too firm?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

emergencydoc said:


> Yes, exactly, with the STD fork the crown can come below the arch so Manitou says you need 26 mm of clearance between the tire and the arch to avoid the crown hitting the tire at maximum compression. With the EXT fork which doesn't come below the arch as far you only need 6 mm clearance.
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/46-35406-SERVICE-NOTE-MASTODON-TIRE-SIZE.pdf


You want the space between the tire and the crown.
The space between the arch is always the same and never an issue.


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What air pressures are you guys running? I'm 185 and run 70psi in a 120 STD Pro and I'm not useing very much travel. Its way less than they recommend.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> What air pressures are you guys running? I'm 185 and run 70psi in a 120 STD Pro and I'm not using very much travel. Its way less than they recommend.


I'm 165ish and run 47psi.
Don't get hung up on the psi number....shock pump gauges ( or any cheap gauge) are not super accurate


----------



## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Finally managed to get a Mastodon delivered to the UK. Comp, EXT, 120mm. I'm keen to extend it to 140mm travel. Any of you early adopters opened up a Comp to adjust it? Have seen Manitou's service document for the Pro but can't find one for the Comp. I have the tools. Will just ride it at 120mm for now until I can find specific instructions for the Comp.


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## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

Did you get it in from Fatbike24.de?


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## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

No, but now I wish I had. I bought it from US ebay because I was in a hurry, but the Global Shipping Programme is a bit slow. I bought the Comp version which FaTbike24.de don't seem to have yet, but comparing prices on the Pro they are cheaper. Ho hum.


----------



## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

Mind you, I wouldn't want to have missed all the fun of tracking it from Florida to Georgia, Kentucky, Paris, London, Warrington and Edinburgh. Now I know why they called it the Global Shipping Programme.


----------



## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

brownmruk said:


> Mind you, I wouldn't want to have missed all the fun of tracking it from Florida to Georgia, Kentucky, Paris, London, Warrington and Edinburgh. Now I know why they called it the Global Shipping Programme.


Ha! Ha! designer forks with all those locations! according to an email I got from hotlines, they are available the end of June to order in the UK and will be £749 RRP for the Pro version so I'm going to hang fire ordering as they work out at £806 from Germany.....might be the first in the UK with them on a Farley EX.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

brownmruk said:


> Finally managed to get a Mastodon delivered to the UK. Comp, EXT, 120mm. I'm keen to extend it to 140mm travel. Any of you early adopters opened up a Comp to adjust it? Have seen Manitou's service document for the Pro but can't find one for the Comp. I have the tools. Will just ride it at 120mm for now until I can find specific instructions for the Comp.


I haven't opened the Comp....but from the parts diagram, it's the same procedure as Pro for travel change. The travel limiters are at the top of the air shaft.


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I know a lot of people have run the Bluto and upgraded to the Mastodon but...

Has anyone tried the 34 Fox 27.5+ and the Mastodon? I know a few guys run the Fox with 4.0 Van Helgas. How do the two forks fompare?


----------



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

kntr said:


> I know a lot of people have run the Bluto and upgraded to the Mastodon but...
> 
> Has anyone tried the 34 Fox 27.5+ and the Mastodon? I know a few guys run the Fox with 4.0 Van Helgas. How do the two forks fompare?


Here: Big Wheel Building: Manitou Mastodon review.


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Here: Big Wheel Building: Manitou Mastodon review.


Thanks. Did you write that? How is the clearance with a 4.0 Van Helga? I like that the Fox is 1.1 lbs lighter.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> Thanks. Did you write that? How is the clearance with a 4.0 Van Helga? I like that the Fox is 1.1 lbs lighter.


The info you seek is in the article:

"I really liked everything about this fork, but wished for more tire clearance -- both to be able to run more meat, but also to have some wiggle room when rides occasionally got sloppy. Pretty minor niggles on an otherwise very, very good fork.'


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The info you seek is in the article:
> 
> "I really liked everything about this fork, but wished for more tire clearance -- both to be able to run more meat, but also to have some wiggle room when rides occasionally got sloppy. Pretty minor niggles on an otherwise very, very good fork.'


I saw that but Id like to see some pics.

Does anyone have pics of the clearance?


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> I saw that but Id like to see some pics.
> 
> Does anyone have pics of the clearance?


You're asking the wrong questions.

The two forks are equal in terms of performance, but the Fox costs more and requires a hub change. If you end up wanting to run a tire slightly wider than the Hodag or you ride in sticky snow or mud, you're SOL.

Personally, I think the Mastodon is a better fork, but there is a weight penalty. Of course, talking weight in the same sentence as a full suspension fat bike is kinda silly.

I'm sure there are pics in the Mutz thread, Mike probably has some too.


----------



## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

the mayor said:


> I haven't opened the Comp....but from the parts diagram, it's the same procedure as Pro for travel change. The travel limiters are at the top of the air shaft.


Yes, but for example, will the oil volumes and spec be the same? I'll keep trying to get hold of the proper manual.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

brownmruk said:


> Yes, but for example, will the oil volumes and spec be the same? I'll keep trying to get hold of the proper manual.


The oil height is listed in their oil height manual.
You don't have to do anything with oil height to change the travel.
But...if you're that scared to open it up, go ahead and wait.


----------



## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

kntr said:


> I saw that but Id like to see some pics.
> 
> Does anyone have pics of the clearance?


http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bucksaw-got-totally-foxed-up-995864.html


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bme107 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bucksaw-got-totally-foxed-up-995864.html


From that thread:

"Not my pic but from Likin' Biking's facebook page. They built up a Mutz with whiskeys and Van Helgas. Says 4mm of clearance. "

Less than a 1/4" per side, just right for riding a sand bikepath, but beware of gravel!

Honestly, there is no reason to run a Fox now that the Mastodon is available... unless it's an appearance thing; you don't want people to know that you're really fat


----------



## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

the mayor said:


> The oil height is listed in their oil height manual.
> You don't have to do anything with oil height to change the travel.
> But...if you're that scared to open it up, go ahead and wait.


Thanks - I hadn't seen the oil height manual. I was assuming the oil volume would need adjusted to maintain the correct height measurement after the travel had been changed.


----------



## brownmruk (Feb 23, 2011)

For anyone interested in the Comp version (I know most of you have the Pro), I opened mine up today to extend it from 120mm to 140mm travel. Two points of note:
Firstly the Manitou cassette tool I bought didn't have a big enough opening to fit over the rebound damper shaft. I had to grind it back by about 2mm to make it fit. The rebound damper shaft is about 13mm diameter while the air spring rod is nearer 10.5mm. I don't know if this issue is specific to the Comp or the particular tool that I received. It wasn’t necessary to remove the rebound damper to change the travel. The travel change guide seems to suggest that you need to change clips on the rebound damper as well as the air spring but my damper didn’t have any clips at the top anyway.
Secondly, I checked the oil level in the damper side with the travel extended by 20mm and the oil was 12mm too low. I didn’t check it before I started so I don’t know if it was correct to begin with. I’m not sure how sensitive the damper is to this degree of change, but I topped it up anyway.


----------



## Dhugal (Aug 25, 2016)

Hey,

Has anyone here had any luck purchasing the Mastodon in Canada? a couple of months ago all my local bike shops in Calgary were very keen to help me get it in but now they are not interested at all


----------



## emergencydoc (May 8, 2017)

My local shop in Edmonton ordered me one as soon as they came on the market, but the distributor told them that they sold out immediately, so I bought mine online from the US--Universal Cycles got it to me in three working days
I just got back from a 7 day tour in Fernie, Nipiska, Canmore and Kananaskis. I had the travel in my STD at 120 on my Bucksaw and had no problems climbing (except for my legs) and I am going to see how it feels at 140 as I could have used a little more travel on the descents.


----------



## Dhugal (Aug 25, 2016)

emergencydoc said:


> My local shop in Edmonton ordered me one as soon as they came on the market, but the distributor told them that they sold out immediately, so I bought mine online from the US--Universal Cycles got it to me in three working days
> I just got back from a 7 day tour in Fernie, Nipiska, Canmore and Kananaskis. I had the travel in my STD at 120 on my Bucksaw and had no problems climbing (except for my legs) and I am going to see how it feels at 140 as I could have used a little more travel on the descents.


Thanks a lot for the response emergencydoc. I shall look into Universal Cycles.


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

Any word on if the mastodon fits a surly wednesday without the knobs or rear facing brace hitting the downtube?


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Does anyone wanna sell their grey Mastodon decals? I need a set. Message me.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> Does anyone wanna sell their grey Mastodon decals? I need a set. Message me.


You can have mine if I can find them.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

has anyone installed one on a trek farley 5 or 7? how is the down tube clearance?


----------



## glockrocket17 (Aug 26, 2015)

akacoke said:


> has anyone installed one on a trek farley 5 or 7? how is the down tube clearance?


I compared it to my 7 with a reps bike who had a salsa blackborow and it looked to have plenty of clearance. Dont actually have one yet though.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk


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## travisjgood (Apr 30, 2012)

I have seen the pro comes with extra gray decals. Does anyone know if the comp gets extra decals as well? If so what color?


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## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

I have a Pro 120mm that will be being fitted in the next week, I'll let you know how I get on.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Anyone have grey decals I can buy? Help.


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## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

akacoke said:


> has anyone installed one on a trek farley 5 or 7? how is the down tube clearance?


I fitted the Mastodon 120mm Pro Ext to my Farley 5, it fits no problems, clears the frame on full lock either way, first impressions are .....Wow.....amazing, only done a very short ride but can already see a massive improvement over what I had on!!! Can't wait to get it out on some serious trails :0)


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## NHayden (Oct 13, 2016)

Well if this fits a Farley 5, shouldnt it fit a 2017 EX8? I want one before our trip to Moab in March. 

Hayden.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Good job!

It really is a killer fork, no reason to not ride one, it's better in every way when compared to a Bluto. The Mastodon is a really good fork, period.

The only thing I could see someone complaining about is weight; though to be honest, it's not heavy for it's size. In that case there are plenty of lighter weight options such as rigid and Lauf.



daver38 said:


> I fitted the Mastodon 120mm Pro Ext to my Farley 5, it fits no problems, clears the frame on full lock either way, first impressions are .....Wow.....amazing, only done a very short ride but can already see a massive improvement over what I had on!!! Can't wait to get it out on some serious trails :0)


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

daver38 said:


> I fitted the Mastodon 120mm Pro Ext to my Farley 5, it fits no problems, clears the frame on full lock either way, first impressions are .....Wow.....amazing, only done a very short ride but can already see a massive improvement over what I had on!!! Can't wait to get it out on some serious trails :0)


thanks for confirming


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Im use to a fox 32 sc performance. What fork would i like? The comp or pro?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

solarplex said:


> Im use to a fox 32 sc performance. What fork would i like? The comp or pro?


I can't think of a good reason to get a comp, the price difference is insignificant in the greater scheme of things. Get the Pro if you have the cash.


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## travisjgood (Apr 30, 2012)

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## travisjgood (Apr 30, 2012)

It's worth the money. Way better than my bluto ever was


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

travisjgood said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Looks good. How much travel? 120mm? The STD or the EXT variant?
I like the grey decals, very nice.


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## travisjgood (Apr 30, 2012)

100mm


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## travisjgood (Apr 30, 2012)

Ext


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

travisjgood said:


> It's worth the money. Way better than my bluto ever was
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It's such a great fork, I'm honestly surprised it took so long for someone to build it.

My Lenz Fatillac gets here next week, my Mastodon EXT will be growing to 150mm, review to follow.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> My Lenz Fatillac gets here next week, my Mastodon EXT will be growing to 150mm, review to follow.


Show off.....


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

daver38 said:


> I fitted the Mastodon 120mm Pro Ext to my Farley 5, it fits no problems, clears the frame on full lock either way, first impressions are .....Wow.....amazing, only done a very short ride but can already see a massive improvement over what I had on!!! Can't wait to get it out on some serious trails :0)


Did it raise the front end by much? What did it replace, rigid fork or bluto?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

KTMNealio said:


> Show off.....


I've been wanting one since Mikesee's first post on the prototype 26" Fatillac, biding my time until a decent fork was available. All I can say is: it's about damn time!

Transparent bronze over nuclear, 150mm of goodness, super short chainstays, it's gonna be a beast!

Don't hate me because my bike is beautiful


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> My Lenz Fatillac gets here next week, my Mastodon EXT will be growing to 150mm, review to follow.


You've got the longer stanchions?

I've been conversing with the Engineers at Hayes this past week. We had our first Mastodon through.

Std height Pro can go to 150mm just by removing spacers. But the Ext Pro needs longer stanchions.
The 140mm published works for all. 150mm doesn't.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> You've got the longer stanchions?
> 
> I've been conversing with the Engineers at Hayes this past week. We had our first Mastodon through.
> 
> ...


Bummer news, but thanks for the heads up .

That makes sense if the stanchions are the same, then the EXT is burning an extra 10mm or so.

I may end up with an STD on the Lenz if my taller wheels don't fit.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Is anyone riding the standard (narrow?) Mastadon with 29+ ?
I am looking at a fork for my green Krampus.....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Not narrower.

EXT has a longer stanchion so it will clear taller tires, ~20mm. 

This is not the fork for a dedidicated 29+, waaay to wide and A-C wil make your hardtail Krampus handle like doo doo. You must have the EXT for 29+, STD will not clear.

Get a regular plus fork, Pike, Fox, Manitou


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## oxboy (Jul 20, 2017)

ntm1973 said:


> Any word on if the mastodon fits a surly wednesday without the knobs or rear facing brace hitting the downtube?


I'd really like to know this as well if anyone has had any experience or knows the dimensions.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Not narrower.
> 
> EXT has a longer stanchion so it will clear taller tires, ~20mm.
> 
> ...


EXT doesn't have longer stanchions, just longer rods. These will be available as spares later, but maybe not just yet.

To run the EXT at 150mm you also need longer stanchions (different CSU). It'll go to 140mm stock.
Std can run 150mm stock by just removing top-out spacers. I did one yesterday.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dougal said:


> EXT doesn't have longer stanchions, just longer rods. These will be available as spares later, but maybe not just yet.
> 
> To run the EXT at 150mm you also need longer stanchions (different CSU). It'll go to 140mm stock.
> Std can run 150mm stock by just removing top-out spacers. I did one yesterday.


So my STD Pro 120 can be converted to 150?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kntr said:


> So my STD Pro 120 can be converted to 150?


Yes. Remove three top-out spacers by the air-piston.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Hey Dougal, thanks for the clarification.

Any tire clearance updates?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Hey Dougal, thanks for the clarification.
> 
> Any tire clearance updates?


I'm not aware of any. What info are you looking for?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> I'm not aware of any. What info are you looking for?


The STD appears to have a tad more clearance than a Bluto, so in theory it should clear the shorter 29+ and shorter 5" tires like the Minion 4.8

Any idea?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The STD appears to have a tad more clearance than a Bluto, so in theory it should clear the shorter 29+ and shorter 5" tires like the Minion 4.8
> 
> Any idea?


You can always throw more travel spacers in under the bottom-out bumpers. Gain tyre clearance in 10mm steps (20mm diameter).

The Std can be made to clear the same size tyres as the Ext. But max travel is 130mm in that configuration.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The STD appears to have a tad more clearance than a Bluto, so in theory it should clear the shorter 29+ and shorter 5" tires like the Minion 4.8
> 
> Any idea?


The 120 STD will clear a Chupacarbra 29 or a Vee Snowhoe XL with about a 1/2" to spare compressed.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Dougal said:


> The Std can be made to clear the same size tyres as the Ext. But max travel is 130mm in that configuration.


I thought the EXT had longer lowers so that the arch of the fork was higher thereby fitting taller tires. If that's the case, than the STD cannot be made to clear the same tyres as the EXT.

Am I wrong about this?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> I thought the EXT had longer lowers so that the arch of the fork was higher thereby fitting taller tires. If that's the case, than the STD cannot be made to clear the same tyres as the EXT.
> 
> Am I wrong about this?


Same uppers and lowers. Different rods.

Parts diagrams are all linked in this thread.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Same uppers and lowers. Different rods.
> 
> Parts diagrams are all linked in this thread.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


Hmmmm... I looked at the parts diagram but for some reason that isn't making any sense to me. If they both have the same lowers with the same arch position, then shouldn't both versions fit the same tires? Isn't the distance from the hub to the arch what determines the size of the tire that would fit?

Different rods would only result in different travel.

Maybe someone with more knowledgeable than I can help me understand this better.


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

Negotiator50 said:


> Hmmmm... I looked at the parts diagram but for some reason that isn't making any sense to me. If they both have the same lowers with the same arch position, then shouldn't both versions fit the same tires? Isn't the distance from the hub to the arch what determines the size of the tire that would fit?
> 
> Different rods would only result in different travel.
> 
> Maybe someone with more knowledgeable than I can help me understand this better.


I think you're confusing the fork brace with the crown. The brace will clear the same with ext and std, the crown clearance is different between the two when the fork is compressed.


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

the mayor said:


> The 120 STD will clear a Chupacarbra 29 or a Vee Snowhoe XL with about a 1/2" to spare compressed.


I would love to see a picture of this.
I'd much rather get a 120std than a 100ext.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Yes. Remove three top-out spacers by the air-piston.


I was told its only 140mm


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kntr said:


> I was told its only 140mm


Until last week that was the official position.

I've personally done 150mm and confirmed with Manitou engineers that the pro STD is all good at 150mm.

EXT versions need longer stanchions (different CSU) to run 150mm

I am an engineer and a Manitou distributor.

Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

fugsworth said:


> I think you're confusing the fork brace with the crown. The brace will clear the same with ext and std, the crown clearance is different between the two when the fork is compressed.


Got it. Now that makes much more sense.

Can someone clear up one other item of confusion before I order:

On the 100mm version, what can the travel be adjusted to? (I believe I have read that it cannot be adjusted up just down to 80)

On the 120mm version, what can the travel be adjusted to? (It sounds like it can be adjusted up to at least 140, maybe 150. Can it be adjusted down to 100)


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Negotiator50 said:


> Got it. Now that makes much more sense.
> 
> Can someone clear up one other item of confusion before I order:
> 
> ...


It's all here in the thread.
100 can only be shorter.
120 can go shorter or up to 140 ( or 150 in STD, or with stancion change on EXT)

I have both a 120 STD and EXT.....there is a 20mm difference in height
The only tire I know of that won't fit under the crown of the STD is a Vee Snowshoe 2XL ( and that can be made to fit with spacers)
Read the thread....there are links to photos of clearance


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

So I have been very interested in the Mastodon and I've read this thread a few times. Though I will admit, I lose focus often.

I run 26X4.6 Spec GC for fat and 29X3.0 Chupacabra. Right now I run 110mm of travel in my Bluto. 100mm travel did not seem like enough. I had 120mm but it made a difference in geo, but was very rideable. I could deal with the 531mm A2C, but I did not want the 551mm (the extra 20mm ride height for the EXT model). 120mm in the Bluto also made the flex more noticeable to me compared to 100mm.

But according to the Mayor, I should be good the standard height Pro model for my tire choices. And according to Dougal, I should be able to lower the travel to 110mm if I desire, even though it is not stated that way by Manitou. This would be the exact same geo and specs as my Bluto, but with a better performing fork. No down side at all.

Does anyone see this differently? If anyone has a different info, please share.......before I spend some money.

Also has anyone tried this on the Pivot Les Fat? Are there any fitment issues for downtube?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)




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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> Same uppers and lowers. Different rods.
> 
> Parts diagrams are all linked in this thread.
> 
> Sent with 100% recycled electrons.


So it looks like I have no reason to run an EXT...

Are the STD rods available to change an EXT to an STD?

Source?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> The 120 STD will clear a Chupacarbra 29 or a Vee Snowhoe XL with about a 1/2" to spare compressed.


Pics would be great. I'd appreciate the effort, not that I don't believe you...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Pics would be great. I'd appreciate the effort, not that I don't believe you...


Would you rather have an oil painting on canvas?
You don't know what a 1/2 space looks like?


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## awai04 (Jul 29, 2004)

*New Mastodon 120mm EXT fork for sale*

delete


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> Would you rather have an oil painting on canvas?
> You don't know what a 1/2 space looks like?


Like the old saying goes, no pics, didn't happen.

Since you know so much...

Maybe you can post some proof? A 29 x 3 Minion under the crown shot at full compression works for me.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Like the old saying goes, no pics, didn't happen.
> 
> Since you know so much...
> 
> Maybe you can post some proof? A 29 x 3 Minion under the crown shot at full compression works for me.


You claim to be the grand wazoo of chainstay length, and all things bikes...
You claim to have one of these forks.

Why don't you measure it yourself?
If you don't know how to use a tape measure, you can take a Casual Encounters ad on Craigslist. I'm sure someone there could help you.

Yes, you have the EXT....which is 20mm longer than the STD. If you can't figure out how to do simple math....post up your numbers here and I'm sure someone could help you


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> You claim to be the grand wazoo of chainstay length, and all things bikes...
> You claim to have one of these forks.
> 
> Why don't you measure it yourself?
> ...


You sir are "backwards"; mtbr autocorrect for wearing your hat on your derrier.

I'm off for a ride on the TRT, Tallyho!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It looks like I'm keeping the Wozo...so I ordered a second Mastodon, but this one is a Pro STD; $727 shipped on eBay from 365cycles.

I'll post pics and such once I get the Fatillac built.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

daver38 said:


> I fitted the Mastodon 120mm Pro Ext to my Farley 5, it fits no problems, clears the frame on full lock either way, first impressions are .....Wow.....amazing, only done a very short ride but can already see a massive improvement over what I had on!!! Can't wait to get it out on some serious trails :0)


Bummer for me. I just fitted my EXt 120 on my 17 inch farley 5. unfortunately the turning knobs are hitting the down tube need at least another 3-4mm clearance. i swapped my stock FSA to a chris king base plate. the bevel for bearing is too short flat part of the race didnt clear the frame. what type of headset are you using?

and is there is thicker base plate/crown race someone can recommend


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Salsa makes a 3mm thicker base plate that may help. I have not tried it.

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=68918&category=98


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

CC makes a taller crown race, you may also be able to use an external cup. If you have been wanting to adjust your HA, get an angleset and solve both problems.

Ghetto fix: Remove the knob or grind the edges.



akacoke said:


> Bummer for me. I just fitted my EXt 120 on my 17 inch farley 5. unfortunately the turning knobs are hitting the down tube need at least another 3


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Salsa makes a 3mm thicker base plate that may help. I have not tried it.
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=68918&category=98


most likely ill have my local salsa dealer order this for me. this should do the trick but i gotta find out the contact angle on it. mine bearing is 36x45



Nurse Ben said:


> CC makes a taller crown race, you may also be able to use an external cup. If you have been wanting to adjust your HA, get an angleset and solve both problems.
> 
> Ghetto fix: Remove the knob or grind the edges.


thanks for the help man. i have IS52 lower i dont think its possible to make a angleset. there isnt an Ext cup available either.

i might just grind down the knobs to clear it, if the bearing contact angle is wrong on the salsa baseplate. both the black and red knob hits it tho. itd be ghetto


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Salsa makes a 3mm thicker base plate that may help. I have not tried it.
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=68918&category=98


i just ordered this part# BAA0855K thru cane creek directly , Only $11 plus actual shipping !!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Bummer there's no anglset for that size, but the thicker crown race should help.



akacoke said:


> i just ordered this part# BAA0855K thru cane creek directly , Only $11 plus actual shipping !!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone interested in trading a Mastodon STD Pro 120mm for my Mastodon EXT Pro 120mm? I have riddent it ~75 miles, no damage.

I will also sell it outright. By memory, the steerer is cut to ~8"; I'll measure it once I'm back home.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

My fork came in thursday. Woo-hoo! Brought the bike in. Mech put it ahead of the other work orders....and called to tell me he needed to order a bottom race, so, "no fork for you" until next Wednseday. (Specialized fat boy with a Chisel carbon fork has the bottom race built into the fork). #@$^&%*!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

the mayor said:


> Salsa makes a 3mm thicker base plate that may help. I have not tried it.
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=68918&category=98


after installing the CC/Salsa +3mm base plate. my Farley 5 17.5 barely clear the knobs with about 0.2mm a piece of printer paper would get stuck in there.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

akacoke said:


> after installing the CC/Salsa +3mm base plate. my Farley 5 17.5 barely clear the knobs with about 0.2mm a piece of printer paper would get stuck in there.


External cup headset to fit an IS 52:

1.0 Degree ZS44-EC52 - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> External cup headset to fit an IS 52:
> 
> 1.0 Degree ZS44-EC52 - To Suit Tapered Steerer Tube


Pretty sure that is a offset headset....which means you have to use the matching upper headset, which is a 44
I beleive the Trek is a 41


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

akacoke said:


> after installing the CC/Salsa +3mm base plate. my Farley 5 17.5 barely clear the knobs with about 0.2mm a piece of printer paper would get stuck in there.


I wonder how the Comp model fits....seeing that is what Trek is using for 18 on the 7
Same on the carbon EX....the Pro hits the frame like yours....yet the 18 model is specced with a Comp.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

akacoke said:


> after installing the CC/Salsa +3mm base plate. my Farley 5 17.5 barely clear the knobs with about 0.2mm a piece of printer paper would get stuck in there.


Make a 2mm thick washer and fit it under the base plate. Should be enough depth in the 40mm seat on the steerer for that.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

I think ill just call my farley " bareley". it barely clears the xxL tire in the rear. 

i really wish manitou made the knobs a bit lower profile.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Except manitou doesnt make fat tires 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

akacoke said:


> I think ill just call my farley " bareley". it barely clears the xxL tire in the rear.
> 
> i really wish manitou made the knobs a bit lower profile.


The Farley was never designed with 2XL tires in mind....but pretty sure the Gnarwhal 27.5 x 4.5 fits?(which ends up with about the same footprint)
The Mastodon Pro compression knobs makes me scratch my head....seeing Trek was the company that first said they were going with this fork...but there is fitment issue on a few models.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

My 8 month old Bluto needs air spring service and the RCT3 lockout keeps flaking out on me. In addition the MRP bottom out adjuster valve although useful, doesn't really make the fork feel any better. I am rather disappointed in it needing service so quickly. 

I am thinking of buying a Mastodon Std 120 for my wozo. I may try 130 or 140mm travel to make the bike handle aggressive trails better. Do you think the mastodon will hold up better? Will the performance improvement over the bluto be worth the change? Are there service kits available? Do I have to purchase M prep, or is sram butter compatible?

Which online sellers do you recommend? Im in Canada.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Late to the party here, but I can say the Fox 34 140 Boost Plus has plenty of clearance for a VanHelga 4.0 on Marge Lite. I have crammed a 4.6 Flowbeist in that fork with enough clearance to have fun and no problems. The Fox is a great fork, and a fair bit lighter than the Mastodon.. Becomes a popsicle below about 10 F, interested to hear how the Mastodon does in super cold temps.

I am definitely eyeballing a Mastodon Pro Ext 120 for a Wozo. Wondering if the crown thingies will clear the downtube (?)


----------



## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

nurseben is using a mastodon pro ext 120 on a large wozo no problem.



PCT said:


> L
> 
> I am definitely eyeballing a Mastodon Pro Ext 120 for a Wozo. Wondering if the crown thingies will clear the downtube (?)


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

akacoke said:


> I think ill just call my farley " bareley". it barely clears the xxL tire in the rear.
> 
> i really wish manitou made the knobs a bit lower profile.


Manitou shares the knobs with the other 34mm forks. Makes you wonder if there was no industry agreement for fat-fork frame clearance? I guess there will be now!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PCT said:


> Late to the party here, but I can say the Fox 34 140 Boost Plus has plenty of clearance for a VanHelga 4.0 on Marge Lite. I have crammed a 4.6 Flowbeist in that fork with enough clearance to have fun and no problems. The Fox is a great fork, and a fair bit lighter than the Mastodon.. Becomes a popsicle below about 10 F, interested to hear how the Mastodon does in super cold temps.
> 
> I am definitely eyeballing a Mastodon Pro Ext 120 for a Wozo. Wondering if the crown thingies will clear the downtube (?)


Have you checked tyre to crown clearance at full compression?

Fitting under the brace is not enough.


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

I honestly wouldnt worry about down tube clearance. worst case you can always shave down the knobs. i didnt choose to go that route because i wanna keep it neat for resale value. and i would like original look on the whole fork as well.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

akacoke said:


> I honestly wouldnt worry about down tube clearance. worst case you can always shave down the knobs. i didnt choose to go that route because i wanna keep it neat for resale value. and i would like original look on the whole fork as well.


Just take the knobs off!


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Have you checked tyre to crown clearance at full compression?
> 
> Fitting under the brace is not enough.


There's plenty of clearance in the Fox 34s....it will fit 29+


----------



## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

120 Pro changed to 150 yesterday. Test ride tomorrow. Oil levels were spot on.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

akacoke said:


> I think ill just call my farley " bareley". it barely clears the xxL tire in the rear.
> 
> i really wish manitou made the knobs a bit lower profile.


akacoke....looks like the 2018 Farley 7 is coming with a rubber bumper on the frame for the compression knob


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

kntr said:


> 120 Pro changed to 150 yesterday. Test ride tomorrow. Oil levels were spot on.


do a write up pls


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

the mayor said:


> akacoke....looks like the 2018 Farley 5 is coming with a rubber bumper on the frame for the compression knob


where do you guys find info on the new farleys. i cant find it for 2018


----------



## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Yep, depressurized the fork and everything looked good.
Been running the Fox with Flowbeist 4.6 no problems. Not a lot of mud clearance though...


Dougal said:


> Have you checked tyre to crown clearance at full compression?
> 
> Fitting under the brace is not enough.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> There's plenty of clearance in the Fox 34s....it will fit 29+


It's always worth asking. I've seen some scary setups on these forums!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Wozo + Mastodon has a bigly amount of room.

So about the Wozo, rear chainstay width maxes out at a Minion 4.8 on LM 65mm, 29+ fits fine diameter wise, but for mud room you need to move the drops back 5mm.

I would not do an EXT unless you plan to run a 27.5 x 4.5, which may not even fit the frame ...

You may or may not need EXT for 29+, it depends on the tire. Minions are probably fine to a 3", but Knards will be tight.

If you run an STD, a 130mm or even a 140mm is rideable. If you get the EXT, 120mm is gonna be the most you'll want to run unless you are a huge fan of choppers.

No idea on cold weather, the Mastodon is yet untested in extremes. It's a suspension fork, it'll probably be real similar to a Bluto, odds are...

To gspotrider: There is no comparison between a Bluto and a Mastodon. Blutos are Rebas in a thin disguise, old tech, wimpy stanchions, and they ride like doo doo. The Mastodon is burly, current tech, rides great.



PCT said:


> Late to the party here, but I can say the Fox 34 140 Boost Plus has plenty of clearance for a VanHelga 4.0 on Marge Lite. I have crammed a 4.6 Flowbeist in that fork with enough clearance to have fun and no problems. The Fox is a great fork, and a fair bit lighter than the Mastodon.. Becomes a popsicle below about 10 F, interested to hear how the Mastodon does in super cold temps.
> 
> I am definitely eyeballing a Mastodon Pro Ext 120 for a Wozo. Wondering if the crown thingies will clear the downtube (?)


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

akacoke said:


> where do you guys find info on the new farleys. i cant find it for 2018


They are hitting dealers now....and any dealer can get you info off their ordering systems


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Scanned the thread but still wondering if a Bud 4.8 on 65-80mm rim will fit in the Mastodon Standard(?) Or Minion 29x3.0? Sorry to ask. I would prefer to run the Standard with its lower a-c. Thanks!


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Has anyone fitted a Mastidon to a 17 Specialized fatboy? Any fitment issues? Thinking of a E 100


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PCT said:


> Scanned the thread but still wondering if a Bud 4.8 on 65-80mm rim will fit in the Mastodon Standard(?) Or Minion 29x3.0? Sorry to ask. I would prefer to run the Standard with its lower a-c. Thanks!


Measure the tyre OD when fitted.

You can add 10mm spacers to the standard to increase bottom-out clearance. It reduces travel by the same amount.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

So I got a ride in on the 150. I've been on the 120 for a few months. I really couldn't tell a huge difference in climbing, but wow huge difference on the DH. I will have to mess with the psi as it seems like I need to run way less. I use to run 55psi in the 120. I ran 50psi today in the 150 and I wasn't using very much travel. I'm going to have to mess with the air pressures. 

Does it make sense that I should run less air in the 150?


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Blaster,Not a 2017, but my LBs found out the chisel fork has a "built in" angled bottom race. They ordered a cane creek race. I'll know today if it is the correct one....


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> So I got a ride in on the 150. I've been on the 120 for a few months. I really couldn't tell a huge difference in climbing, but wow huge difference on the DH. I will have to mess with the psi as it seems like I need to run way less. I use to run 55psi in the 120. I ran 50psi today in the 150 and I wasn't using very much travel. I'm going to have to mess with the air pressures.
> 
> Does it make sense that I should run less air in the 150?


Yes....because of the added volume. You might want to experiment with the IVA too


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## Fat-Tire (Feb 10, 2016)

Mastodon is much wider than the Bluto. So much so that the tire hooks on my Kuat NV bike rack won't fit. :madman:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Get a 1Up, fits fine 



Fat-Tire said:


> Mastodon is much wider than the Bluto. So much so that the tire hooks on my Kuat NV bike rack won't fit. :madman:


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Yes....because of the added volume. You might want to experiment with the IVA too


What settings do you recommend for a 180 lb rider?


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

FireinMTB said:


> Thanks man. Found 'em on BTI. Gonna order one as soon as it's in stock. Thanks again.
> 
> I'm thinking about the standard version, in 120mm on my beargrease. It might be a bit overkill, but I like the idea of being able to go 27.5x3 with the 120mm travel and keep a decent BB height.


Hey, did you end up putting the 120mm Mastadon on your beargrease? Is your frame carbon? I want to do the same but salsa voids their warranty if you go bigger than 100mm on the fork. Looking for any feedback on your experience.

Anyone else in ear shot of this with a carbon beargrease, chime in as well.

Thanks, Wil


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> What settings do you recommend for a 180 lb rider?


I don't weigh 180....nor do I have a 150 fork....nor do I ride like you on the trails you ride.
But if you're not getting much travel at 50psi....go down to 45 and go from there.
Same with the IVA...once you get a base psi level, it takes 5 minutes to change the spacers.


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

Nurse Ben- How much are you looking to get for the fork? Can the travel be adjusted downward at all? Sacrilege, I know... but the manufacturer says max travel is 100mm or warranty goes kabloey.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

goose8 said:


> Nurse Ben- How much are you looking to get for the fork? Can the travel be adjusted downward at all? Sacrilege, I know... but the manufacturer says max travel is 100mm or warranty goes kabloey.


Well, it's nearly new, I'm not in a hurry, was hoping to change it over to an STD but no parts so far, might just keep it and wait.

Sounds like you need a short travel version anyhow. Honestly, I've never had a bike that couldn't take 120mm, so you may want to go up travel vs down; short travel forks won't have as much value down the road.


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## goose8 (Feb 24, 2007)

Ah, I see. That makes a lot of sense, thanks for the advice! Good luck selling it when the times comes.


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## on58960 (Mar 19, 2016)

FWIW,

I have a Farley 5 and 7 both 2016's. I stopped into my LBS yesterday and they have the new 2018 7, in red. The bike is very nice but holy cow it weighs over 35 lbs. It is very front heavy as I would expect but more than I expected. The fork itself had fantastic action. The fork did graze the frame hence the rubber frame protector on the Trek which won't mean a thing if its a hard fall. Someone needs to design a bike around the fork if this will become a standard. I would not put it on my Farley's. Gonna stay rigid on the 5 and remain under 30lbs with Surly Nates, for now.

To be fair the proof will be when I ride it, a riding friend purchased the bike.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

on58960 said:


> FWIW,
> 
> I have a Farley 5 and 7 both 2016's. I stopped into my LBS yesterday and they have the new 2018 7, in red. The bike is very nice but holy cow it weighs over 35 lbs. It is very front heavy as I would expect but more than I expected. The fork itself had fantastic action. The fork did graze the frame hence the rubber frame protector on the Trek which won't mean a thing if its a hard fall. Someone needs to design a bike around the fork if this will become a standard. I would not put it on my Farley's. Gonna stay rigid on the 5 and remain under 30lbs with Surly Nates, for now.
> 
> To be fair the proof will be when I ride it, a riding friend purchased the bike.


There were clearance problems for the Bluto early, most frames fit fine, same with the Mastodon. The Wozo fits the Mastodon with miles to spare.


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Small Wozo frame has clearance issue with knob. A light grind of the black knob could prevent a bent adjuster shaft.

Should i leave it? Should I grind it?

Other Questions:
Mine gets 110mm travel. Is the new bottom out bumper available from Manitou? 
Is it easy to install?

What are you guys preferring: slow rebound to handle drops, jumps and chunky stuff or fast rebound to get it active for high speed runs?

Untitled by avyoung, on Flickr


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

GspotRider said:


> Small Wozo frame has clearance issue with knob. A light grind of the black knob could prevent a bent adjuster shaft.
> 
> Should i leave it? Should I grind it?
> 
> ...


A little grind job might save you aggravation later.
They get 110 travel. I called Manitou and they said I'd have to send it in...which ain't happening.
Give them a call....you might get someone different and let us know what they tell you.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

GspotRider said:


> Small Wozo frame has clearance issue with knob. A light grind of the black knob could prevent a bent adjuster shaft.
> 
> Should i leave it? Should I grind it?
> 
> ...


Okay, well the bigger frames fit fine 

Order the thicker race and you'll be fine.

Manitou sent me the bumper revision kit, comes with tool, grease, oil, etc...


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

I like the thicker race suggestion. Thx!
Did you call Manitou or will email to Manitou get the job done to get the updated bottom out kit?



Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, well the bigger frames fit fine
> 
> Order the thicker race and you'll be fine.
> 
> Manitou sent me the bumper revision kit, comes with tool, grease, oil, etc...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

GspotRider said:


> I like the thicker race suggestion. Thx!
> Did you call Manitou or will email to Manitou get the job done to get the updated bottom out kit?


Email, super easy, very nice kit.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Got my STD extended to 150mm, not too hard if you've had a fork apart, but you need two special tools: skinny wall socket and a modified cassette tool. 

I got the socket from Manitou as part of the bushing "fix". I made the cassette tool from a Park cassette socket, broke out the pin and drilled the pin hole to 3/8".

I did some measuring and it looks like the tallest tire that fits an STD safely at full travel is a Minion 4.8 on a 65 mm rim. In this configuration I have ~5mm to spare. Tire is about 29" in diameter.

29+ is far taller than a Minion 4.8, so all you 29+ fans will need the EXT for long travel applications; not that you didn't already know this... and of course you can travel limit an STD for clearance but that limits travel.

I'm interested in trading my120mm Pro EXT if anyone is interested; I'm not gonna run 29+ any more.

Manitou did a good job on this fork.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm not gonna run 29+ any more.


Only going to ride slow henceforth, eh?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Only going to ride slow henceforth, eh?


I'm old, I can't ride fast 

So Mike, did you open up the fork and adjust travel? It's a really simple system, cheap to change, just add oil.


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## Greenhead12 (May 17, 2017)

Gspotrider, I have a salsa/cane creek 3mm crown race (thicker for clearance) if u need it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)




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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Got my STD extended to 150mm, not too hard if you've had a fork apart, but you need two special tools: skinny wall socket and a modified cassette tool.
> 
> I got the socket from Manitou as part of the bushing "fix". I made the cassette tool from a Park cassette socket, broke out the pin and drilled the pin hole to 3/8".
> 
> ...


Just to be sure, which model should I buy? I see I need to get a a Pro model in min 120mm travel to get 150mm? I am sorry but I have not read these thread and the answer is here....The reason you want to trade your 120mm Pro Nurse Bend is that it is a bit longer and rises the front of the bike? I can be interested in bying your 120mm PRO EXT if you will ship it to Norway and if we can agree about the price. Please PM me.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> View attachment 1153863


Nice shitstomper!

Awfully sweet of your wife to loan you her saddle like that...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Now wait one second...how do you know she loaned it to me 

Hey Mike, do you have an internal lower headset cup? I'm running a -1 deg angleset, might not need it, so dropping the stack would be worthwhile.

CC Coil IL feels so smooth, I can believe it's Charmin 

... and since this is the Mastodon thread... the Mastodon at 150mm is easilly as stiff and flex free as a Pike. Killer fork!!



mikesee said:


> Nice shitstomper!
> 
> Awfully sweet of your wife to loan you her saddle like that...


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

What air pressures are you guys running in the STD 150? I'm down to 35-40 psi and still cant get full travel.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

kntr said:


> What air pressures are you guys running in the STD 150? I'm down to 35-40 psi and still cant get full travel.


Did you remove the spacers on the rebound and compression legs?

If you just remove the compression side, you get the full extension but not the full travel.

40-50psi, still playing with volume spacers.

Also learning about coil shocks. So far I love it, silky smooth, like riding on a down pillow.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Thank you for the great support here guys!
What kind of BB height is there on the Lenz bike? It seems to be really high compared to normal standards?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Did you remove the spacers on the rebound and compression legs?
> 
> If you just remove the compression side, you get the full extension but not the full travel.
> 
> ...


I had the shop do it.

If I let all the air out it compresses 5" and the seals come within a 1/4" of hitting.

I'm 185 and I'm running about 40psi. It feels awesome but after a ride Ive only used about 3" of travel and I ride some pretty rough trails. Ill try 35 psi today. Maybe something is wrong with my gauge.

Are you sure there are spacers in both legs?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> What kind of BB height is there on the Lenz bike? It seems to be really high compared to normal standards?


It is normal for locations that have large quantities of ledges, roots, and rocks to negotiate.

It is high only when compared to the current trend of smacking your cranks, pedals, and feet on every one of the aforementioned ledges, roots, and rocks.

Every time I demo a bike with a "modern" BB height I get frustrated, quickly, by how often my cranks, pedals, and feet come into contact with earth. And that bike's owner, now riding my Fatillac, marvels that they can pedal up a hill so effortlessly, without smacking feet every few pedal strokes.

Some trends make good, solid sense: Slacker HTA's, shorter CS's, wider bars, shorter stems, fatter tires at lower pressures. Low BB's have not been similarly positive.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

kntr said:


> If I let all the air out it compresses 5" and the seals come within a 1/4" of hitting.


Then you have a 5" travel fork.


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## blowery (Aug 28, 2014)

mikesee said:


> It is normal for locations that have large quantities of ledges, roots, and rocks to negotiate.
> 
> It is high only when compared to the current trend of smacking your cranks, pedals, and feet on every one of the aforementioned ledges, roots, and rocks.
> 
> ...


I gotta agree with this. I hit mine way more on my current bike. Consensus from everyone was "pedal better"


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

blowery said:


> I gotta agree with this. I hit mine way more on my current bike. Consensus from everyone was "pedal better"


I hear that too -- at the trailhead, in the bar, and online. And then, when we're out *riding* said techy trails, it's conspicuously silent except for groans of frustration and the sounds of pedals, cranks, and feet smacking rocks. And then the sounds of frustrated riders pushing their bikes up a difficult but utterly rideable trail.

And we haven't even mentioned the consequences of adding speed and gravity to the equation.


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## blowery (Aug 28, 2014)

mikesee said:


> I hear that too -- at the trailhead, in the bar, and online. And then, when we're out *riding* said techy trails, it's conspicuously silent except for groans of frustration and the sounds of pedals, cranks, and feet smacking rocks. And then the sounds of frustrated riders pushing their bikes up a difficult but utterly rideable trail.
> 
> And we haven't even mentioned the consequences of adding speed and gravity to the equation.


Yeah I spend A WHOLE LOT more time thinking about rocks (Colorado riding) that it messes me up way more.

Of course now I'm looking at a FS bike, HT is getting rough on me so maybe I"ll get a chance to make sure the BB height is better.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Big Edit: I was wrong!

So I was having the same problem as Kntr, 150mm extension but I wasn't getting the full 150mm travel no matter how low I ran the pressure.

Admittedly I am better at some things than others, so I figured I'd made a mistake; after rereading the manual I was sure the problem was the spacers I left inside the damper leg... except there are no spacers in the damper leg.

However, I was still having a travel issue on the damper side; the rod would not fully compress, but after pulling the damper rod; upper ABS damper installed, I suddenly had full damper rod travel. Honestly, I have no idea how or why it was stuck; air?

Anywho, now it's working fine, 150mm of plush Manitou travel, like riding on a giant pogo stick 

Below still counts:

=> The Manitou fork is unique in that you can "place" the fork in a shorter position when releasing the pump and it will stay in that position.

Try attaching the pump, then forcefully pull the fork legs out, see if you can get the 6" of travel that you should have. If this works, then add your normal amount of pressure and release the pump before allowing the fork to compress.



kntr said:


> I had the shop do it.
> 
> If I let all the air out it compresses 5" and the seals come within a 1/4" of hitting.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Agreed, pedal strikes have worsened with the new bike geos in recent years, influenced by folks who ride groomer flow trails and park; and it's not something that makes me smile!

I bought the Lenz Fatillac specifically because the BB is higher, as well I ordered 165mm cranks just so I can stop hitting my pedals on rocks. Fat bikes have enough problems with pedal strikes due to being extra wide, we don't need to be low and wide.

You shouldn't have to run taller wheels to have a bike that is trail friendly.

Edit: Hey Mike, you gotta try a Cane Creek IL, it is so dang smooth and comfy, it brings dampness to a whole new level.



mikesee said:


> It is normal for locations that have large quantities of ledges, roots, and rocks to negotiate.
> 
> It is high only when compared to the current trend of smacking your cranks, pedals, and feet on every one of the aforementioned ledges, roots, and rocks.
> 
> ...


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Will the pro ext in 150mm be to long for the Foes Mutz?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Will the pro ext in 150mm be to long for the Foes Mutz?


That would measure out like a 170mm, so super choppered.

Why do you need an EXT on a Mutz? 29+ doesn't fit out back, you don't need EXT to run 4.5" tires, so I assume you're running mixed wheels?

I'd get the 120mm STD, run it at 140 or 150.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> That would measure out like a 170mm, so super choppered.
> 
> Why do you need an EXT on a Mutz? 29+ doesn't fit out back, you don't need EXT to run 4.5" tires, so I assume you're running mixed wheels?
> 
> I'd get the 120mm STD, run it at 140 or 150.


Actually I called Manitou in Europe and they told me they need to change the travel limitation for the EXT and the STD in the user manual in their web site? I understood there had been some issue with tire rubbing the frame?

I will run the Mastadon Pro EXT on my Salsa Beargrease either in 120 or 110. I run it with 27.5"x3,8 so and 29+ so I need EXT then I suppose?

I do not see any reason to run bigger tires than 3" on a full suspension anymore. My terrain require low air pressure and because the limitation of tire choice, with the right rubber compound and knob pattern, I have given up fat as FS. My kind of terrain does not give the fat category any advantages of grip that might is superior in dry conditions. Slick rock and gravel in dry conditions I would think it is the best.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

NURSE BEN
When you let all the air out and compress the fork, how close are the seals to hitting?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> NURSE BEN
> When you let all the air out and compress the fork, how close are the seals to hitting?


On a STD....the seal comes 7mm
On the EXT, it's 27mm
You say your fork moves 5"....that is 130mm, So either not enough spacers were taken out...or it isn't extending all the way.
How many spacers did the shop take out?
Measure your axle to crown distance when it's extended.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Holy crap fest. What a cess pool of misinformation.

Rumblefish....it's not because tires are rubbing frames...it's the opposite because the early production of the forks did not get full travel (10mm short). The correct info is now on the site.There is also some changes to the service manual....most notable is a change from 5wt to 3 wt fork oil.

And despite what Ben says....your travel adjustments are on the Air shaft side of the fork,,,not the damping side. The spacers are at the top of the air shaft.

If your fork is not extending all the way, it can be 3 things:
1. Not enough spacers were removed.
2. The Negative air spring is either not equalized...or the fork was slightly compressed when the pump was removed.
3. The rebound damper or the fork was reassembled while compressed and there's a vacuum in the lower legs.


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## on58960 (Mar 19, 2016)

Are these forks really worth the extra cost, weight and effort? Starting to wonder. My wheels never come off the ground more than a few feet once in a while.

Maybe a Bluto to eat some root/trail chatter, carbon fork for snow.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dude, I edited my post, spacers only on air side.

I've had the fork all the way apart, even the damper, it's not as clear as you'd like to make it.

Mine was stuck, no idea why, my guess was air on the damper side, but even when I removed the damper leg it was still travel limited.

I changed the single spacer on the damper leg to the same style spacer as the air side. I think it was getting stuck as it's got an odd fit and it's stepped.

I'm getting the full 150mm travle at 50psi, works wonderfully, no complaints.

So much better than a Bluto, rides nicer than my Pike.



the mayor said:


> Holy crap fest. What a cess pool of misinformation.
> 
> Rumblefish....it's not because tires are rubbing frames...it's the opposite because the early production of the forks did not get full travel (10mm short). The correct info is now on the site.There is also some changes to the service manual....most notable is a change from 5wt to 3 wt fork oil.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, but only if you want a better riding fork.

If you don't care or don't notice the Bluto's faults, then why bother.



on58960 said:


> Are these forks really worth the extra cost, weight and effort? Starting to wonder. My wheels never come off the ground more than a few feet once in a while.
> 
> Maybe a Bluto to eat some root/trail chatter, carbon fork for snow.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Within a couple millimeters of the seal. I get a full 150mm travel at 50psi.



kntr said:


> NURSE BEN
> When you let all the air out and compress the fork, how close are the seals to hitting?


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Dude, I edited my post, spacers only on air side.
> 
> I've had the fork all the way apart, even the damper, it's not as clear as you'd like to make it.
> 
> ...


The reason your damper hung was #3. I did it myself. The damper has to be extended when installed or it hangs...same with the lower legs ( and you don't find out until it's back together....doh!)
They are incredibly easy forks to work on and dial in....but that same simplicity makes it easy to screw up


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes and no.

Mine wouldn't compress once it was apart, so I kept fussing with it, pushing it in and out, then suddenly it released. I think the damper circuit was stuck/air trapping. That damper side spacer is sketchy, very unstable on the rod, no apparent reason for being oversized or for being stepped; it's for damper not for controlling leg extension. I swapped it for the a spacer from the air side which is much more stable.

They should ship the cassette tool with the fork, I made one from an old cassette tool, wasn't hard, but I'd rather have it included esp if they're going to make this work in a one size fits all. I think it retails for $50!



the mayor said:


> The reason your damper hung was #3. I did it myself. The damper has to be extended when installed or it hangs...same with the lower legs ( and you don't find out until it's back together....doh!)
> They are incredibly easy forks to work on and dial in....but that same simplicity makes it easy to screw up


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes and no.
> 
> Mine wouldn't compress once it was apart, so I kept fussing with it, pushing it in and out, then suddenly it released. I think the damper circuit was stuck/air trapping. That damper side spacer is sketchy, very unstable on the rod, no apparent reason for being oversized or for being stepped; it's for damper not for controlling leg extension. I swapped it for the a spacer from the air side which is much more stable.
> 
> They should ship the cassette tool with the fork, I made one from an old cassette tool, wasn't hard, but I'd rather have it included esp if they're going to make this work in a one size fits all. I think it retails for $50!


I don't remember a spacer on the rebound damper? Is it between the piston and the piece that threads into the stancion(that you use the cassette tool on)? I haven't had the rebound apart in a while. Maybe that's what caused on of my forks to not extend the first time.

Or are you talking about the spacers under the bottom out bumper???

Pretty simple why they don't include the tool kit ( which is the casstte tool, milled down 8nn and 28mm sockets)...The average person will never use them. Or they would lose them before ever using them. And it would bump the price of the fork up $50.

I made my tools....but I have access to a machine shop. When you take a $10 cassette tool and $30 worth of sockets, then spend time machining them....
The $50 price is a deal


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

So a little update on my creaking and popping issues. I had a bike mechanic contact Manitou several months ago at which time they indicated some of the initial uppers didn't get glued properly. Well they finally sent a new upper. So hopefully in a few days I can ride without my bike sounding like microwave popcorn.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I drilled out the cassette tool and dremeled the notch, fifteen minutes, not too bad.

The spacer on the damper leg was inside the stanchion, just below the rubber bumper; accss using the cassette tool.

I got the socket free from Manitou with the "rubber bumper home fix kit".

I'm wondering when Manitou is going to start releasing the Mastodon at different lengths...



the mayor said:


> I don't remember a spacer on the rebound damper? Is it between the piston and the piece that threads into the stancion(that you use the cassette tool on)? I haven't had the rebound apart in a while. Maybe that's what caused on of my forks to not extend the first time.
> 
> Or are you talking about the spacers under the bottom out bumper???
> 
> ...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I drilled out the cassette tool and dremeled the notch, fifteen minutes, not too bad.
> 
> The spacer on the damper leg was inside the stanchion, just below the rubber bumper; accss using the cassette tool.
> 
> ...


Hmmm....I can't remember that spacer? I will have to take one apart and look.

As far as "rubber bumper kit"....all I got was 7 spacers. And I had to call and email several times. Pretty sharty service.

Supposedly, They are going to be shipping 150 forks soon...and just sell 80/100 and 120/140 forks


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

the mayor said:


> On a STD....the seal comes 7mm
> On the EXT, it's 27mm
> You say your fork moves 5"....that is 130mm, So either not enough spacers were taken out...or it isn't extending all the way.
> How many spacers did the shop take out?
> Measure your axle to crown distance when it's extended.


The shop gave me 3 spacers back. I'm 185 and I've been running 40 psi and I only use about 75% of the travel on the hardest hits. If I let all the air out I get 5.5" of travel.

If I run 30 psi I can get full travel but then the fork wont fully extend the last 5-10mm.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

hold on, im just finding out this a problem with these forks? what is it? not getting full travel? how do i find out if mind is good?. i have the pro 120mm ext


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The sky is not falling 

The 120mm STD comes with three spacers installed on the air shaft, each spacer accounts for a potential travel addition of 10mm; remove one and gain 10mm travel, remove all three and gain 30mm travel.

You have to completely dissasemble the fork; special tools are required, to change the travel up or down.

The upper air side has a volume spacer assembly with three spacers, these are for air volume adjustment, they have no effect on travel; they are the same as RS tokens.

The damper side has one spacer on the damper shaft, it does not affect travel, so leave it alone unless you like to play with stuff.

The upper damper side is the ABS unit, this is oil filled and does not need to be messed with, unless you like messing with stuff.

The lower fork legs get 15mm of semi bath 5-40 oil (same as motor oil).

The damper gets 3wt damper oil (not motor oil), volume is determined by measuring oil depth; read the instructions. There's no good reason to mess with the damper.. unless you like messing with stuff 

There was an issue with a rubber bumper that reduced potential travel for 3-4mm, a kit is available for no cost from Manitou, which includes a special socket, oil, and some spacers. My early ediction EXT needed to be fixed, my new STD did not.

The two special tools are a machined socket and a modified cassette tool. You get the socket for free if you ask Manitou to send you the bumper modification kit. The modified cassette tool can be purchased for ~$50 or you can make your own by drilling out a cassette tool and notching the side. I made mine with a drill and dremmel, tool ten minutes.

If you are not getting full travel with the fork completely depressured, then you may have some air trapping on the damper side. To fix this, you need to dissasemble the fork and open up the lower leg on the damper side.

Remember that the Manitou fork is not like a Fox or RS, you must use a shock pump to release air pressure AND when setting air pressure you need to extend the fork fully before removing the pump or you will not have full travel.

Great fork, some learning curve, otherwise quite easy to work on.

120mm EXT can only extend to a mximum of 140mm travel.
120 STD can extend to a maximum of 150mm travel.
EXT is 20mm longer A-C than an STD of similar travel.
Parts are available to swap from EXT to STD, and vice versa, but getting the parts is difficult.



akacoke said:


> hold on, im just finding out this a problem with these forks? what is it? not getting full travel? how do i find out if mind is good?. i have the pro 120mm ext


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Pinkbike review -

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-mastodon-pro-review.html


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

in the trees said:


> Pinkbike review -
> 
> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-mastodon-pro-review.html


Pinkbike's Take:
"Yes, fatbikes still have an air of weirdness about them, but that's also what makes them so fun, at least for me. They're also a very effective tool in the right conditions. The correct tool, I would argue, and it's components like the Mastodon Pro that make these machines feel more and more normal, even on perfectly clear singletrack. The Mastodon performs like a short-travel Mattoc, which is some serious praise, but it also goes a long way to making a fatbike feel as normal and as fun as possible."


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Couple of tuning notes:

The change from 5wt (green-blue) to 3wt (clear) damper oil is a type change, but same viscosity at normal temps. The 3wt has much better low temperature performance.

I use Motorex oils and the Motorex 2.5wt has the same viscosity as both the above but slightly better low temp than even the 3wt. 
If you get a Mastodon from me and the oil is red then it's Motorex.

The bath oil is Manitou's semi bath 5w40. Yes it's a fully synthetic motor oil but not all 5w40 motor oils make good lube. Brand matters.
We use Motorex Supergliss in house for warm conditions. Above freezing it's a better lube than the Semibath 5w40. The semibath is much better in the cold and the best all-round lube choice.
We also have a related cold weather lube we'll release at some stage.

For full travel, if anyone wants to make the fork less progressive then you can remove the oring around the IVA spacer piston under the top-cap. This opens up extra positive air chamber volume and disables the volume spacers.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Hey Dougal, thanks for chiming in, you are the resident expert 

So about the comment on making the fork less progressive by removing the o-ring: If I'm already running zero volume spacers, what additional change would I notice by removing the o-ring?

When I pulled the damper, I changed to Motorex 2.5wt to improve winter performance.

I'm still trying to source STD rods to convert my EXT...

"For full travel, if anyone wants to make the fork less progressive then you can remove the oring around the IVA spacer piston under the top-cap. This opens up extra positive air chamber volume and disables the volume spacers. "


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Hey Dougal, thanks for chiming in, you are the resident expert
> 
> So about the comment on making the fork less progressive by removing the o-ring: If I'm already running zero volume spacers, what additional change would I notice by removing the o-ring?
> 
> ...


It makes the fork less progressive and easier to reach deep travel. Try it and see. It's easily reversable if you don't like it. Just make sure you depressurise the air spring first. *POP*


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

Between the mayor the nurse and Dougal I am a little confused.

If I wanted to reduce bottom end travel on a 120 pro by 10mm (Make it a 110) is that done on the top air side? Or both sides of the lowers? Or what? 

I thought I had it clear in my mind but I seem to be reading conflicting information.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

fugsworth said:


> Between the mayor the nurse and Dougal I am a little confused.
> 
> If I wanted to reduce bottom end travel on a 120 pro by 10mm (Make it a 110) is that done on the top air side? Or both sides of the lowers? Or what?
> 
> I thought I had it clear in my mind but I seem to be reading conflicting information.


If you want to increase tyre clearance then add spacers to the bottom of the rods inside the lower legs. 
If you want to decrease fork height then add spacers to the top of the rod inside the stanchion.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Pinkbike's review and Manatou's website both say 150 mm is OEM only. I still haven't read anywhere but here that the 120 mm STD can be converted to 150 mm.


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## jonm1211 (Aug 29, 2017)

in the trees said:


> Pinkbike review -
> 
> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/manitou-mastodon-pro-review.html


What's with all the fat hate over at pinkbike?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kntr said:


> Pinkbike's review and Manatou's website both say 150 mm is OEM only. I still haven't read anywhere but here that the 120 mm STD can be converted to 150 mm.


The STD 120mm can be extended to 150mm. Trust me. I've done it.

It's a new development but no changes in hardware.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dougal said:


> The STD 120mm can be extended to 150mm. Trust me. I've done it.
> 
> It's a new development but no changes in hardware.


Same here, got one on my Fatillac running at 150mm. It actually measures out at a tad under, more like 146-7mm when fully compressed.

Like Dougal said, changing spacers on lower air shaft adjust extension, changing spacers on upper air shaft limit compression.

For those wanting to run 29+ on an STD, thereby avoiding the 20mm increase in A-C of the EXT:

If you add two spacers (20mm) to the top of the air shaft you reduce compression by 20mm and limit travel to a maximum of 130mm.

I'm assuming that in this configuration the A-C would be equal to a non compression limited STD fork set at 130mm.

Dougal, please correct me if this is wrong. My experimentation is limited by my needs; right now I don't needs 29+ 

It makes more sense with the fork apart. I'll try to take some pics when I break down my EXT. Take a look at the manual, it's kinda understandable, kinda.

The spacer system is not unlike the Wren.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The STD 120mm can be extended to 150mm. Trust me. I've done it.
> 
> It's a new development but no changes in hardware.


What else do you have to do besides removing the 3 spacers?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Same here, got one on my Fatillac running at 150mm. It actually measures out at a tad under, more like 146-7mm when fully compressed.
> 
> Like Dougal said, changing spacers on lower air shaft adjust extension, changing spacers on upper air shaft limit compression.
> 
> ...


That's right, you can make a mini-EXT by taking a standard and throwing in 4x 10mm spacers. 2 under each b/o bumper. Reduces travel by 20mm, increases allowable wheel diameter by 40mm.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kntr said:


> What else do you have to do besides removing the 3 spacers?


Put the fork back together.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Put the fork back together.


My fork must be an exception. I have 3 spacers in my hand and my fork only gets 140 mm. I'm not trying to be a smartass as I was wishing id get 150 but sadly I am not.

Mine is spot on 140mm. The rubber ring is where my fork bottoms out with all the air out.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kntr said:


> My fork must be an exception. I have 3 spacers in my hand and my fork only gets 140 mm. I'm not trying to be a smartass as I was wishing id get 150 but sadly I am not.
> 
> Mine is spot on 140mm. The rubber ring is where my fork bottoms out with all the air out.


Some of the 150mm is in the bottom-out bumpers and some in the top-out. So 140-145mm in normal riding is about right. Check it's fully extended by pulling up before you disconnect the pump.
But an "OMG I'M GONNA DIE" situation should get within 2mm or so of 150.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Some of the 150mm is in the bottom-out bumpers and some in the top-out. So 140-145mm in normal riding is about right. Check it's fully extended by pulling up before you disconnect the pump.
> But an "OMG I'M GONNA DIE" situation should get within 2mm or so of 150.


Thanks for all the help. I took out the rubber O-ring on the IVA air side and it made a huge difference in the progression of the fork. I like my fork plush and this really helped. I use more travel, now.

Does the distance from the bottom out rubber O-ring to the crown look about right? That's where I was concerned.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Like Dougal said, changing spacers on lower air shaft adjust extension, changing spacers on upper air shaft limit compression.
> 
> For those wanting to run 29+ on an STD, thereby avoiding the 20mm increase in A-C of the EXT:
> 
> ...


You've got this backasswards.
You add the spacers to the bottom of the rods to limit bottom out and run a bigger wheel.
You add or remove spacers from top of air shaft to change travel and extension.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

kntr said:


> Thanks for all the help. I took out the rubber O-ring on the IVA air side and it made a huge difference in the progression of the fork. I like my fork plush and this really helped. I use more travel, now.
> 
> Does the distance from the bottom out rubber O-ring to the crown look about right? That's where I was concerned.


That distance looks correct for a STD fork at full compression....it's 7mm to the inside point of the crown.

The only other thing you'd want to do is measure from the tire to crown with it compressed.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

fugsworth said:


> Between the mayor the nurse and Dougal I am a little confused.
> 
> If I wanted to reduce bottom end travel on a 120 pro by 10mm (Make it a 110) is that done on the top air side? Or both sides of the lowers? Or what?
> 
> I thought I had it clear in my mind but I seem to be reading conflicting information.


What do you mean by
bottom end travel?
Are you trying to shorten the ride height?
Are you trying to shorten the overall travel?
Are you trying to get more space to be able to run a taller tire?
And what fork ( STD or EXT?) do you have?


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## Tavic (Apr 25, 2016)

Wyatt is specing them as an option for their upcoming Fat Bike as well.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Tavic said:


> Wyatt is specing them as an option for their upcoming Fat Bike as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Thanks for shilling Wyatt...which is the new Bikes Direct


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## Tavic (Apr 25, 2016)

the mayor said:


> Thanks for shilling Wyatt...which is the new Bikes Direct


Not their newest bike. The frame is actually going to be built in house (LaCrosse, WI).

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Tavic (Apr 25, 2016)

Current Prototype









Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Tavic said:


> Not their newest bike. The frame is actually going to be built in house (LaCrosse, WI).
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Who cares? This is a thread about a fork.
Take out an ad if you want to shill the bike


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## Tavic (Apr 25, 2016)

the mayor said:


> Who cares? This is a thread about a fork.
> Take out an ad if you want to shill the bike


Reading through the thread, folks are posting about what bikes are being speced with them as well. Figured I'd share, but didn't figured I'd be trolled about it.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Tavic (Apr 25, 2016)

Btw, I'm not shilling anything. Just another rider sharing info.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

the mayor said:


> What do you mean by
> bottom end travel?
> Are you trying to shorten the ride height?
> Are you trying to shorten the overall travel?
> ...


I think dougal answered my question with this:


Dougal said:


> If you want to increase tyre clearance then add spacers to the bottom of the rods inside the lower legs.
> .


By bottom end of the travel I mean when the fork is completely compressed... "Tire clearance".
My fork is a 120 pro std.
I'd like the option to make it a 110

Edit:
Thanks Dougal, I did what you said and it was quite simple. 

I now have a 110 travel standard that will fit Minion 29x3 and Surly Bud with 531 A-C


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just spoke with Luke at Dirt Lab, he has ordered STD conversion parts for my EXT, but Manitou is saying September before they'll be available. I'll post follow ups once I get the conversion complete. Parts cost are estimated at $50.


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## Maxeymum (Mar 2, 2017)

September??? That's tomorrow! Outrageous!!!


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Maxeymum said:


> September??? That's tomorrow! Outrageous!!!


It's already tomorrow, dude


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maxeymum said:


> September??? That's tomorrow! Outrageous!!!


In bike speak, September is really late October.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> In bike speak, September is really late October.










This is the calendar the bike industry uses.
I'm going to bet the parts will be here by the winged 3 legged dog


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

the mayor said:


> View attachment 1155358
> 
> This is the calendar the bike industry uses.
> I'm going to bet the parts will be here by the winged 3 legged dog


Post of the year! Or should I say post of the yellow toothy one eyed parrot...


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## Fatpeak (May 27, 2017)

Awesome ride with the Mastodon :thumbsup:


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Fatpeak said:


> Awesome ride with the Mastodon :thumbsup:


Now that's how a fatbike is supposed to be ridden!


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## 288GTO (Aug 17, 2015)

ktmnealio said:


> now that's how a fatbike is supposed to be ridden!


wow!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That video pretty much catches the Mastodon in action. Though my riding is no where near that level, I do work my Mastodons pretty hard, plenty of big hits, routine 4-5' airs, lots of bad lines with consequences..

What I notice is that the fork goes where I point it, it keeps the tire in contact with the ground, it's not skittery or bouncy, there is no stiction, and flex is not an issue. It's certainly on par with a Pike, though I prefer the action of the Manitou over a Pike.

Now I need to work on my nose wheelies


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## Pkovo (Aug 22, 2012)

I'm contemplating buying one of these, and have gone through this forum. Have a few questions I am hoping can be answered by someone more knowledgeable.

I see the "the travel change manual (page 9)" referenced and linked. However the link is dead and I couldn't find it via a search. Any idea if/how it can be accessed?

I've read on the std model that you can gain tire clearance by adding spacers which sacrifices travel. makes sense in theory, but has anyone that has one actually done this yet? If so, any feedback on the change?

This is going on a Surly ICT. I expect to run it mostly with 27.5+ and 3" tires. Concerned about throwing off geometry much, so leaning towards the STD, but then I may just like having suspension enough to want it with some 5" tires also. I can definitely see wanting to at least try it in the snow with some Dillinger 5s, which although they are labelled as 5" they aren't very big. Thinking one extra spacer would be plenty to run those, perhaps 2 spacers for my big Knards. 

Just looking for a little more confirmation or feedback that extending the std model works. real examples would be best, but guessing that manual referenced would help to clarify.

Also, if any on has run one on an ICT specifically and has feedback, would like to hear it. Thanks.


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

Pkovo said:


> I'm contemplating buying one of these, and have gone through this forum. Have a few questions I am hoping can be answered by someone more knowledgeable.
> 
> I see the "the travel change manual (page 9)" referenced and linked. However the link is dead and I couldn't find it via a search. Any idea if/how it can be accessed?
> 
> ...


27.5 + should fit a STD 120 no problem (531a-c). There is a picture of a fat minion also fitting. I shortened my 120 to 110 so I could have mud clearance with my 29+ minion. It worked.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Pkovo said:


> I'm contemplating buying one of these, and have gone through this forum. Have a few questions I am hoping can be answered by someone more knowledgeable.
> 
> I see the "the travel change manual (page 9)" referenced and linked. However the link is dead and I couldn't find it via a search. Any idea if/how it can be accessed?
> 
> ...


I tried the EXT 120mm version on my Salsa Beargrease in 21" frame. Set up with low handlebars and flip over the stem, it was no problem. I would probably be better off with a 110 or a 100mm travel, on the Salsa, but I like to ride a bit aggressive and want a bit more travel. I wanted the EXT version to be able to use all kind of wheel sizes including 29+ and 5" tires.


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## DirtyHun (Jan 9, 2011)

KTMNealio said:


> Now that's how a fatbike is supposed to be ridden!


Then I had better send mine back.


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## Blue66 (Sep 18, 2016)

Material is overestimated, it's always the rider not the bike or fork - reduced to the essentials  (starts from 2:00) &#8230;


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you are only going to run shorter travel, ie <130mm, there is no reason to get an EXT for a 29+/5" tire clearance because you can add 10-20mm (1 or 2) of spacers to limit travel, thus preventing the tire from hitting the crown.

Unlike the EXT, the STD will not increase A-C, so functionally the bike will remain at the same geo as it would with a rigid fork/Lauf/Bluto.

I made this same mistake on my Wozo, prior to knowing enough about the Mastodon fork to make an informed decision; early adoptor syndrome.

I am in the process of changing my EXT to an STD on my Wozo, I will run 130mm travel which leaves the the option of adding spacers to reduce travel if I decide to run 29+ again.

To reiterate: STD with 20mm of spacers can be run up to 130mm and clear 29+/5" tires without increasing A-C.

The question I have is why even create an EXT?

Personally, I'd rather have a Mastodon "minus" with a narrower crown for 3-4" tires, 160mm travel; call me a dreamer.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> I tried the EXT 120mm version on my Salsa Beargrease in 21" frame. Set up with low handlebars and flip over the stem, it was no problem. I would probably be better off with a 110 or a 100mm travel, on the Salsa, but I like to ride a bit aggressive and want a bit more travel. I wanted the EXT version to be able to use all kind of wheel sizes including 29+ and 5" tires.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Has there been an engineering drawing of the fork posted? Not exploded parts view but 3-view dimensional that a frame builder would use.


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## Pkovo (Aug 22, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you are only going to run shorter travel, ie <130mm, there is no reason to get an EXT for a 29+/5" tire clearance because you can add 10-20mm (1 or 2) of spacers to limit travel, thus preventing the tire from hitting the crown.
> 
> Unlike the EXT, the STD will not increase A-C, so functionally the bike will remain at the same geo as it would with a rigid fork/Lauf/Bluto.
> 
> ...


Thanks to everyone that replied, very helpful. This reply is pretty much spot on my situation. I never plan on using more than 130 mm of travel, and actually probably will use less. I'm thinking 120 max, maybe 110 as is for the std. If I run it with bigger tires, ad spacers below, 90-100. A-C distance is very much my concern because I feel the geo now with my rigid fork is great and don't want to increase any further than I need to. So, this makes perfect sense to me. STD it is.

Hopefully my last question...Does it come with all the spacers I'll need, or do I need to order some extras to have enough to add and reduce travel?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm not sure if the fork includes the combination of spacers needed to meet all the possible combinations. From memory I remember getting some extra spacers with my forks, but now I have them all in one bag 

You do need to dissaemble the fork and move around spacers, for that you'll need the special socket and cassette tool OR pay a shop to do the work.



Pkovo said:


> Thanks to everyone that replied, very helpful. This reply is pretty much spot on my situation. I never plan on using more than 130 mm of travel, and actually probably will use less. I'm thinking 120 max, maybe 110 as is for the std. If I run it with bigger tires, ad spacers below, 90


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Wonder what parts there is in the conversion kit for ext to std? Just a shorter airshaft? Someone who have measured and seen the difference of ext and std airshaft? If we know we could shorten the ext shaft accordingly.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I was told that the kit includes three parts: spacers, air shaft, and something else (he didn't specify, maybe a washer or a seal/wipe). I'm waiting on the parts from Dirt Labs.

As far as I know, the air shaft is replaced and the damper shaft is retained.

Hey Dougal, you out there?? Anything to add?

I kinda wonder why Manitou didn't simply set the STD for travel limitations from the outset, skipping the EXT air shaft and using spacers as we're looking to do. Wierd.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> Wonder what parts there is in the conversion kit for ext to std? Just a shorter airshaft? Someone who have measured and seen the difference of ext and std airshaft? If we know we could shorten the ext shaft accordingly.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

In. i have a mastodon on my Fattilac. 

is there a fender for these things? my muckynuts won't work...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

https://muckynutz.com/mudguards/fat_bike_mudguards/fat_face_fender_xl



Rodney Jekyl said:


> In. i have a mastodon on my Fattilac.
> 
> is there a fender for these things? my muckynuts won't work...


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you are only going to run shorter travel, ie <130mm,
> 
> To reiterate: STD with 20mm of spacers can be run up to 130mm and clear 29+/5" tires without increasing A-C.


You got this wrong.
If you add 20mm of spacers to the bottom.....you will now have a 100mm travel fork with the same a/c as the STD 120.
If you remove 20mm of spacers from the top to compensate....you will have the same a-c as the 120 EXT because you are extending the fork.
All pretty simple math.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That is not what I understand.

I think we need Douglal to chime in as I am not gonna spend my time taking apart forks to prove/disprove something I do not plan to use.

Tapping out until Dougal chimes in.



the mayor said:


> You got this wrong.
> If you add 20mm of spacers to the bottom.....you will now have a 100mm travel fork with the same a/c as the STD 120.
> If you remove 20mm of spacers from the top to compensate....you will have the same a-c as the 120 EXT because you are extending the fork.
> All pretty simple math.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Pkovo said:


> Thanks to everyone that replied, very helpful. This reply is pretty much spot on my situation. I never plan on using more than 130 mm of travel, and actually probably will use less. I'm thinking 120 max, maybe 110 as is for the std. If I run it with bigger tires, ad spacers below, 90-100. A-C distance is very much my concern because I feel the geo now with my rigid fork is great and don't want to increase any further than I need to. So, this makes perfect sense to me. STD it is.
> 
> Hopefully my last question...Does it come with all the spacers I'll need, or do I need to order some extras to have enough to add and reduce travel?


You get 2 10mm spacers with a new fork....
If you put 1 on the bottom of each leg....you have a 110 fork and will have 10mm more clearance to the crown


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> That is not what I understand.
> 
> I think we need Douglal to chime in as I am not gonna spend my time taking apart forks to prove/disprove something I do not plan to use.
> 
> Tapping out until Dougal chimes in.


Again....pretty simple math. If you take spacers off the top of the air shaft....it extends the fork and the a-c (take 20mm of spacers off....and you have a 120 travel fork with the a/c of the 140 STD...or the same as 120 EXT)


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Okay, now I see what your saying.

It is simple math.

The A-C will be a combination of the changes made.

So to maintain the A-C for an STD 120mm fork AND have 20mm of travel limit for 29+ wheels, you can only get 100mm of travel.

Yes, that makes sense.



the mayor said:


> You get 2 10mm spacers with a new fork....
> If you put 1 on the bottom of each leg....you have a 110 fork and will have 10mm more clearance to the crown


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, now I see what your saying.
> 
> It is simple math.
> 
> ...


It is simple math.
It only took me 42 times of taking these forks apart to figure it out.....doh!
Then....the "ah ha!" moment happened.
And there is a reason for the EXT fork that Manitou will probably reveal later this year.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

And for those of you with angst over a-c length.....I have tried these forks in several configurations on 5 different bikes( my Echo and Farley EX,,and a Fatboy Carbon, a Bucksaw carbon and a Mukluk)......myself and the other people always end up liking the EXT's extra length.
Where you ride and how you ride may have varied results.

Pretty easy to test if you like a shorter fork using the pump method. Longer fork takes disassembly


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Okay, now I see what your saying.
> 
> It is simple math.
> 
> ...


Also....I took a 120STD....added 10mm on the bottom andtook off 20mm on top of the air shaft.
I now have a 130 travel fork with the same a-c as the 140std/120 EXT ( 551) and still has almost 1 inch of clearance on the Chapucabra ( so with out the 10 on the bottom...you still have almost a 1/2 inch of clearance


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> https://muckynutz.com/mudguards/fat_bike_mudguards/fat_face_fender_xl


i have that one. it doesn't work.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> i have that one. it doesn't work.


I'm using a fender that's sold under a bunch of different names.....easiest to find on Ebay sold by Fourier.
A little cutting and it does the job.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> i have that one. it doesn't work.


Mine works, let me see who makes it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

the mayor said:


> It is simple math.
> It only took me 42 times of taking these forks apart to figure it out.....doh!
> Then....the "ah ha!" moment happened.
> And there is a reason for the EXT fork that Manitou will probably reveal later this year.


Okay, you drop a hint, but no details?

Pray tell, what other purpose could a 20mm longer air shaft serve?

I want it!


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> I kinda wonder why Manitou didn't simply set the STD for travel limitations from the outset, skipping the EXT air shaft and using spacers as we're looking to do. Wierd.


There is no strange reason for different legs between EXT/STD.
You need the EXT air shaft to be a longer shaft to stop the end stroke before the STD. Also you need starting point a bit further out than the STD. This gives you longer A-C.

The EXT air shaft is 20mm longer. It has in the 150mm version 2 spacer lower and 1 spacer in the upper part. Compared to the standard one that has 1 spacer lower and 0 in the upper. Difference between those two are 2 spacers=20 mm.

In theory you could cut off 20mm of an EXT air shaft and get a STD one.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> There is no strange reason for different legs between EXT/STD.
> You need the EXT air shaft to be a longer shaft to stop the end stroke before the STD. Also you need starting point a bit further out than the STD. This gives you longer A-C.
> 
> The EXT air shaft is 20mm longer. It has in the 150mm version 2 spacer lower and 1 spacer in the upper part. Compared to the standard one that has 1 spacer lower and 0 in the upper. Difference between those two are 2 spacers=20 mm.
> ...


Pssst.....the longer air shaft doesn't stop the end stroke.....the spacers at the bottom do.
I have both versions.
Read my post above.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

the mayor said:


> Pssst.....the longer air shaft doesn't stop the end stroke.....the spacers at the bottom do.
> Read my post above.


Yes of course, but the shaft has to be 20mm longer anyway, to get the spacers at the bottom and to keep enough travel on top??


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rodney Jekyl said:


> In. i have a mastodon on my Fattilac.
> 
> is there a fender for these things? my muckynuts won't work...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Pssst.....the longer air shaft doesn't stop the end stroke.....the spacers at the bottom do.
> I have both versions.
> Read my post above.


The spacers are needed at the bottom so the longer shafts don't meet internally. Otherwise Manitou would be using longer shafts for all.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The spacers are needed at the bottom so the longer shafts don't meet internally. Otherwise Manitou would be using longer shafts for all.


Dougal...I tried to PM this...but your inbox is full:
On a 120 EXT:
There is 2 1/2 inches of space from the top of the air shaft to the IVA compressed.
Nothing hits if you take out 2 spacers at the bottom of the EXT dampers(which now makes it a 140 non EXT).
What does happen is the air spring rate goes up because of the changed volume from the longer airshaft.
(I don't know if the 150 EXT airshaft/rebound will hit)
I am running a EXT120 where I removed 1 set of spacers from the bottom...it now has 130 trravel and still has plenty of clearance for 29+ tire. ( I had to remove the o-ring on the IVA per your suggestion to get better air spring progression)

AND for anyone who has a early EXT 120 fork that only gets 107mm travel.....check how many spacers are at the bottom of the shafts.
Mine had 4....there should be 3! ( You will notice the travel adjust guide on their site is now a B revision)

Does anyone have a saved copy of the original travel guide? I thought it showed 4 spacers at the bottom of the EXT120....


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Dougal...I tried to PM this...but your inbox is full:
> On a 120 EXT:
> There is 2 1/2 inches of space from the top of the air shaft to the IVA compressed.
> Nothing hits if you take out 2 spacers at the bottom of the EXT dampers(which now makes it a 140 non EXT).
> ...


The stanchions are tapered internally near the top too. The Mattoc gets tight inside near full travel and stanchion length is the same. But I guess not having HBO gives the Mastodon a bit more breathing room.

I've got original and rev B travel guides open here. No difference in the spacer diagrams on pages 9/10.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The stanchions are tapered internally near the top too. The Mattoc gets tight inside near full travel and stanchion length is the same. But I guess not having HBO gives the Mastodon a bit more breathing room.
> 
> I've got original and rev B travel guides open here. No difference in the spacer diagrams on pages 9/10.


Yes...the taper starts about 4ish inches down....which is the length of the IVA,,,,
Thanks for looking at the Travel guide.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

the mayor said:


> Yes...the taper starts about 4ish inches down....which is the length of the IVA,,,,
> Thanks for looking at the Travel guide.


So conclusion is that you can convert a EXT to a 140 STD just by taking off 2 of 3 bottom tokens (2 of the 3 outside of the inner leg)??

Why not just change settings on air cap volume adjustment if compression is getting to high.


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

The options on the Manitou site are confusing to me.
I have a 2016 Farley 7 and currently run 26x5 2xl's. 
If I want a fork that would allow me to run the 5 inch tires or 27.5x4.5, which option should I select?
I see chain reaction offers 26 or 27.5 forks in 100mm or 120mm travel. Would the 120mm 27.5 give me enough clearance? I see Trek specs the new Farley 7 with an 80mm fork.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

headwind said:


> The options on the Manitou site are confusing to me.
> I have a 2016 Farley 7 and currently run 26x5 2xl's.
> If I want a fork that would allow me to run the 5 inch tires or 27.5x4.5, which option should I select?
> I see chain reaction offers 26 or 27.5 forks in 100mm or 120mm travel. Would the 120mm 27.5 give me enough clearance? I see Trek specs the new Farley 7 with an 80mm fork.


You want the EXT model....which is what some places are calling the 27.5
If you get the 100 model.....that's the longest it will go, and you can shorten it to 80 easily..
If you get the 120....you can go up to 140....and easily shorten it.
And check Universalcycles....better pricing and I think they ship to Canada


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## headwind (Sep 30, 2004)

the mayor said:


> You want the EXT model....which is what some places are calling the 27.5
> If you get the 100 model.....that's the longest it will go, and you can shorten it to 80 easily..
> If you get the 120....you can go up to 140....and easily shorten it.
> And check Universalcycles....better pricing and I think they ship to Canada


Thanks for explaining this!
I'll check them out also.


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## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

*Mudguard*



Rodney Jekyl said:


> In. i have a mastodon on my Fattilac.
> 
> is there a fender for these things? my muckynuts won't work...


Fathugger from Mudhugger works brilliantly and fits really good, just have to drill a couple of extra holes as its designed around the Bluto with the fork bridge at the front. I'm using one front & one on the rear!


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## Pkovo (Aug 22, 2012)

Fyi worldwide cyclery has been floating a couple coupon codes online at their website for 13 and 15%. With a code you can snag the 120mm std comp version for about $435-$445. Free shipping in US.

I have no affiliation with them whatsoever. Just passing along what I thought was a solid price.


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## Pkovo (Aug 22, 2012)

This may be old news, but it was new to me....I think the manitou chart for which tires fit was done assuming 65mm rims. 

I say this because they list max tire diameter for std fork at 756mm. They list the 45north dillinger 5 tires max diameter at 759mm on their chart, so its a no go. However 45north does list that tire as having a 756mm diameter on 65mm rims, but only 750mm diameter on 82mm rims. 

So judging by this they should work with the std since 750 is well under the 756mm max. Since those are my winter tires and my winter rim size, I'll confirm this eventually, once temps drop.


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## jddjirikian (Aug 25, 2006)

mikesee said:


> Anyone know if you can retro a Mastodon onto an ICT and not have the crown cream the downtube when the bars are rotated?


Has anyone definitively answered this question? I'm thinking about going with an ICT/Mastodon combo, but would like to verify before pulling the trigger.

I know Chris King used to make a race/baseplate extension but in checking their website I haven't seen if they make one for a fork lower the size of the Mastodon.


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## mohrgan (Sep 12, 2013)

jddjirikian said:


> Has anyone definitively answered this question? I'm thinking about going with an ICT/Mastodon combo, but would like to verify before pulling the trigger.
> 
> I know Chris King used to make a race/baseplate extension but in checking their website I haven't seen if they make one for a fork lower the size of the Mastodon.


Yes. Here...

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/surly-ict-thread-935625-9.html#post13328841


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## Pkovo (Aug 22, 2012)

jddjirikian said:


> Has anyone definitively answered this question? I'm thinking about going with an ICT/Mastodon combo, but would like to verify before pulling the trigger.
> 
> I know Chris King used to make a race/baseplate extension but in checking their website I haven't seen if they make one for a fork lower the size of the Mastodon.


The one I have on order is for an ICT. I emailed Surly about it up front and they said they thought it should clear by 3mm Looking at all the measurements. A guy on one of the ICT forums put one on his a week or so back and it cleared. Cant recall for certain but think it was a med frame.

He went with the 120mm ext comp. used the pump trick to set the travel lower to drop the A/C length.


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## jddjirikian (Aug 25, 2006)

mohrgan said:


> Yes. Here...
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/surly-ict-thread-935625-9.html#post13328841


Thanks!


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Circling back....
My removing 10mm of bottom out spacers on the EXT didn't work out too well for me.
The air spring ramps up too much for my weight ( about 175 geared up)
I even tried removing all the IVA internals to get a little more volume...
Maybe it would work for a heavier person though
After playing with the IVA on both the EXT and STD....for me, it works best with the IVA disabled ( o ring removed).
As usual, your weight and riding style can change all this.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Tested more seriously the 150 EXT today. First I have to say I am not convinced yet. Something feels loose in the fork like the feel of something that is loose moving that should not be moving. Almost like the head tube bearings is loose. 

Second I was not happy bottoming out the fork 2 times on the test ride. I have some nice steep roll overs that ends pretty flat in the end. I was suprised that I used all the travel, since the ramp up seems really progressive. The air Setting set to sag at 27% and approx. 110psi. The set up guide says 92psi in 150mm??? That is to all little pressure obviously. I am 250-260lb so I need much high pressure, maybe that helps? All the tokens sits below piston on the IVA. 

The fork has measured travel at approx 150mm.

Any suggestions for taking care of these issues?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Any suggestions for taking care of these issues?


The most effective solutions usually involve posting on the internet. Since time immemorial actually.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

mikesee said:


> The most effective solutions usually involve posting on the internet. Since time immemorial actually.


Could you explain what you actually mean?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That's a lot of pressure you're running.

I'm 200#, on my 150mm STD 50psi worked great all summer, recently bumped to 55psi for the colder weather. Pressure is similar on my EXT 120. I have not notice the fork bottoming out, but I will use all of the travel on occassion.

Maybe if you completely disassemble the fork and reassemble, you'll find the problem.

I did this ^ and didn't find any problems, but it was educational.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> Tested more seriously the 150 EXT today. First I have to say I am not convinced yet. Something feels loose in the fork like the feel of something that is loose moving that should not be moving. Almost like the head tube bearings is loose.
> 
> Second I was not happy bottoming out the fork 2 times on the test ride. I have some nice steep roll overs that ends pretty flat in the end. I was suprised that I used all the travel, since the ramp up seems really progressive. The air Setting set to sag at 27% and approx. 110psi. The set up guide says 92psi in 150mm??? That is to all little pressure obviously. I am 250


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Tested more seriously the 150 EXT today. First I have to say I am not convinced yet. Something feels loose in the fork like the feel of something that is loose moving that should not be moving. Almost like the head tube bearings is loose.
> 
> Second I was not happy bottoming out the fork 2 times on the test ride. I have some nice steep roll overs that ends pretty flat in the end. I was suprised that I used all the travel, since the ramp up seems really progressive. The air Setting set to sag at 27% and approx. 110psi. The set up guide says 92psi in 150mm??? That is to all little pressure obviously. I am 250-260lb so I need much high pressure, maybe that helps? All the tokens sits below piston on the IVA.


I weigh 265 with gear and I had to put all the tokens above the piston to get it to act as progressively as I wanted. Mine felt way too linear with 1 token above.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

KTMNealio said:


> I weigh 265 with gear and I had to put all the tokens above the piston to get it to act as progressively as I wanted. Mine felt way too linear with 1 token above.


Okay, moving the piston below the tokens then. At what air pressure do you run your fork With? Mine is an original OEM 150 mm travel build from factory.

Anyone tried the Manitou IRT kit, with air pressure adjustment instead of tokens?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> That's a lot of pressure you're running.
> 
> I'm 200#, on my 150mm STD 50psi worked great all summer, recently bumped to 55psi for the colder weather. Pressure is similar on my EXT 120. I have not notice the fork bottoming out, but I will use all of the travel on occassion.


I would say you are running far to low, since the air pressure guide says 84 psi in your weight range. I will say I am 15% off the suggested, but you are 30% off the suggested??


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Okay, moving the piston below the tokens then. At what air pressure do you run your fork With? Mine is an original OEM 150 mm travel build from factory.
> 
> Anyone tried the Manitou IRT kit, with air pressure adjustment instead of tokens?


Irt acts a lot differently than tokens. The piston with tokens cant move, IRT it can, so the deeper you push into travel the further the IRT piston will compress.

Talk about some serious tinkering to get that set up right but could make for a really nice tune.

But your problems are in the lack of spacers decreasing volume. Way too linear. Get those spacers flipped and give it a good ride, followed by some pressure tinkering and probably be gtg.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Okay, moving the piston below the tokens then. At what air pressure do you run your fork With? Mine is an original OEM 150 mm travel build from factory.


Mine is set at 120mm, and I run about 95 psi (high speed at 1, low speed at 2) on my pump (I think I lose about 5 psi when I disconnect).
I've ran mine as high as 110psi (high speed at 2 and low speed at 1) and as low as 75psi (high speed at 2 and low speed at 2).


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

Quote: (Late to the party here, but I can say the Fox 34 140 Boost Plus has plenty of clearance for a VanHelga 4.0 on Marge Lite. I have crammed a 4.6 Flowbeist in that fork with enough clearance to have fun and no problems.) 

What's the width of the two tires at the widest point? Also the width of the fork at the narrowest point. 
I picked up a Manitou Magnum Comp 27.5+ 110 boost to try on my Bucksaw built because I wanted a narrower fork. I mounted up a Vee Tire H-Billy 4.25" which measures 3.5" on a 26" Surly Rabbit Hole 50mm rim. I've got about 1/16" clearance on each side between the tire and fork. 
Sounds like the Fox 34 might have more clearance.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I think the 2 manitou threads threw you off, this is the Mastodon thread, huge fat bike forks (much bigger than magnum or fox 34).

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## gumba (Dec 18, 2016)

The quote above is from page 7. Looks like he through it in as an option to the Mastodon, and guys just skipped over it. Since I'm limited to 3.8" tire width I was looking for an alternative to the Mastodon.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, but the clearance is still not great with the Fox...

There's a bunch of us in this boat, but only because the Mastodon is so friggin huge and we're all weight weenies at heart. But seriously, what's a pound on a fat bike?

Width is just an appearance thing; from the side the Mastodon doesn't like that big 

I'd run a plus fork on my Fatillac if there was a true 4" between fork legs, that would be good enough for B Fat and it would work okay for 26 x 4" tires on narrower rims.

In other words, the Mastodon is a great fork if you can get over the perception that it makes your butt look fat.



gumba said:


> The quote above is from page 7. Looks like he through it in as an option to the Mastodon, and guys just skipped over it. Since I'm limited to 3.8" tire width I was looking for an alternative to the Mastodon.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm 200 with gear and run 50-55 psi in my 150 Pro and its perfect. I use all the travel and have never felt it bottom either.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

And I would say that you don't know what you're talking about "yet".

Look, you just got the fork, we've been riding them for months. Listen to the prevailing wisdom and learn.

It was discussed on this thread, months ago, that the factory suggested pressures were to high.

I'm not running my pressure to low, I'm running it right where it should be. I have no excessive bottoming, I have full travel utilization, and the ride is exceptional.

I'm not sure who set your fork up "from the factory", but it ain't working right.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> I would say you are running far to low, since the air pressure guide says 84 psi in your weight range. I will say I am 15% off the suggested, but you are 30% off the suggested??


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Tested more seriously the 150 EXT today. First I ?


You have a 150 EXT?
Last I heard, they weren't going to be available for a while


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

the mayor said:


> You have a 150 EXT?
> Last I heard, they weren't going to be available for a while


Bought it through a dealer on a bike. So it is specified as a OEM part. LBS called Hayes/Manitou technical dep. today and they comfirmed that it is broken. There is something loose/broken inside the airside. It also got confirmed that the negative and the positive air is not balanced since the fork gets stuck down when relasing the air. We tried to fill up again and it did not extend.

This is strange, but I commented to LBS that it got a loud mechanical sound only one time when cycling the fork after the first airfilling of the fork. The sound was like a metalpeace snapping.

Anyway Manitou is replacing the fork so LBS will receive during next week. Very expedite service I will say.
So let us hope for a better start of these fork.

BTW they put on the IRT ( infinite rate tune) kit, so I can tune the mid stroke and end stroke infinite 

Also thinking of taking out 1 token at bump stop....since it will not have any influence when using IRT, I mean any problem hitting the bored part of the tube with the IRT is impossible. And the IRT will probably get the compression correct.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> And I would say that you don't know what you're talking about "yet".
> 
> Look, you just got the fork, we've been riding them for months. Listen to the prevailing wisdom and learn.
> 
> ...


I think you are right, due to broken air assembly, it probably was wrong the pressure I used. Still really exited to see these fork will do alright with 60psi, 20% more than your riding weight considered.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SOLD

FS: Manitou Mastodon, EXT, 120mm, steerer cut to ~8" (will confirm tonight).

Currently mounted on a Wozo. No issues, works great, ridden a couple dozen times, no scratches.

Selling due to no longer riding 29+ wheels; don't need the extra clearance.

$650 shipped in Continental US.


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

Those that have had this fork apart, if your starting with a 100mm Pro STD and occasionally want to bump up to 120mm, would it be as easy of swapping the 120-140mm air shaft and go? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No. Think rebuild breakdown.

The easy way is to get the 120mm, then use a fork shock to reduce height.



Haste11 said:


> Those that have had this fork apart, if your starting with a 100mm Pro STD and occasionally want to bump up to 120mm, would it be as easy of swapping the 120


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Haste11 said:


> Those that have had this fork apart, if your starting with a 100mm Pro STD and occasionally want to bump up to 120mm, would it be as easy of swapping the 120-140mm air shaft and go?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You can't bump a 100 up to 120.
The 100 has shorter Stanchions. 
You can shorten the 120 to 100....but you can't lengthen the 100 to 120


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just got my second Mastodon STD 120mm fork mounted on the Wozo, replacing an EXT 120mm.

I figured on adding a 10mm spacer and stretching the travel to 130mm, but before breaking the fork down I decided to measure clearance with Barbegazi 27.5 x 4.5" on Jackalopes. 

Completely aired down and slammed (multiple times), there was 4-5mm of clearance between the crown and the tire.

The tire diameter measures out to ~ 765mm.

I'm thinking no spacer and 140mm travel


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## mrcheviot (Sep 5, 2017)

I normally lurk, but in wrapping my brain around mod options I decided to throw this chart together based on the Manitou docs and what's been discussed in this thread. I took liberty of simplifying tire sizes, and did not include any options for removing bottom spacers.

LMK if there are any mistakes.

Bottom line - if you have the tools, get the STD. If you want it to work out of the box with larger tires, get the EXT.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

In the travel range....there is no minimum....it could be zero.
Don't know how you came up with the max 130 in the 29+
And I don't know why you have all the B numbers in there.You might add 1 or 2 to the STD to make it a EXT....but that's it.
I didn't bother to check the rest....
And Manitou updated the travel guide on their site
https://wwwmanitoumtbcom-ct78ltl6iy..._RC_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


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## mrcheviot (Sep 5, 2017)

the mayor said:


> Don't know how you came up with the max 130 in the 29+


Max 130 for 29+ is simple math: add 2 to bottom (total of 3, gives you EXT clearance), remove all 3 top spacers. This 130mm max has been mentioned previously in this thread.

Also, italics part notes that 140mm may be possible as a "tweener" between STD and EXT if using just 2 bottom spacers provides satisfactory clearance.



the mayor said:


> In the travel range....there is no minimum....it could be zero.
> And I don't know why you have all the B numbers in there.You might add 1 or 2 to the STD to make it a EXT....but that's it.
> I didn't bother to check the rest....
> And Manitou updated the travel guide on their site
> https://wwwmanitoumtbcom-ct78ltl6iy..._RC_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


Chart is based on the rev B guide.

I do pretty clearly claim at the bottom the B4/5 don't make much sense, and I agree that 0 travel or anything in between is possible using methods not involving spacers.

Point of this is to give a reference for the spacer and travel/ac/tire questions, as sometimes seeing the larger picture helps people (incld myself) grasp what's going on.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It would be best to have a fork in hand to do these measurements. Going off Manitou's info without first hand knowledge is a fools's errand.

For example: I have measured a Barbegazi mounted on a Jackalope on a Mastodon STD and there was 1/8 clearance; diameter is 765mm. According to Manitou, there is only spacing for a 756mm diameter. Perhaps they are being very conservative, but still it's not accurate.

My opinion, having had an EXT and currentyly owning two STD, is that the EXT is only necessay if you want to run 140mm travel with wheels taller than 760mm.

If you don't need all that travel, it is much easier and better geo, to use an STD and add a 10mm travel limiting spacer. You can still use up to 140mm of travel without changing A-C.

So really there is very little reason to get an EXT at this time as even the tallest 29+ can be managed on an STD with a travel reducing spacer, without changing A-C.



mrcheviot said:


> Max 130 for 29+ is simple math: add 2 to bottom (total of 3, gives you EXT clearance), remove all 3 top spacers. This 130mm max has been mentioned previously in this thread.
> 
> Also, italics part notes that 140mm may be possible as a "tweener" between STD and EXT if using just 2 bottom spacers provides satisfactory clearance.
> 
> ...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Perhaps they are being very conservative


Yes they are. Published figures need to be safe for the worst conditions of wheel flex and over-inflated tyres.

Which is a good thing. If you want to take responsibility then you can do whatever you want.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

mrcheviot said:


> Max 130 for 29+ is simple math: add 2 to bottom (total of 3, gives you EXT clearance), remove all 3 top spacers. This 130mm max has been mentioned previously in this thread.
> 
> Also, italics part notes that 140mm may be possible as a "tweener" between STD and EXT if using just 2 bottom spacers provides satisfactory clearance.


You are bad at math. I have a 120 STD here set at 150 and a 29+ works fine.
Do you even have one of these forks? Ever actually have one apart?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, conservative, but with a 10mm spacer it would be quite safe, so I'll go there.

Still leaves me scratching my head as to the need for an EXT.



Dougal said:


> Yes they are. Published figures need to be safe for the worst conditions of wheel flex and over


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yup, conservative, but with a 10mm spacer it would be quite safe, so I'll go there.
> 
> Still leaves me scratching my head as to the need for an EXT.
> 
> ...


----------



## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

i have 2xl mounted on 90mm spesh rim on ext. clearance is ok. just enough. i imagine std would clear


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you don't need all that travel, it is much easier and better geo, to use an STD and add a 10mm travel limiting spacer.


So you're saying steeper head angles are better now...??? wtf


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> So you're saying steeper head angles are better now...??? wtf


HaHAHAHA! and here we go!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

KTMNealio said:


> So you're saying steeper head angles are better now...??? wtf


Neal, have you been drinking too much coffee again?

Increasing A-C is not the way to slacken steering angle. There are anglesets that can decrease HTA by up to 1.5 degrees, equivalent to a 30mm increase in A-C, without adding to stack.

My Wozo began life with a 69deg HTA based on a 100mm Bluto. I'm riding a Mastodon STD 130/140mm fork which works out to a 67-67.5 HTA.

I had an angleset installed on the Wozo when I was running a Mastodon EXT 120 (same A-C as a Mastodon STD 120) and I found that I liked the ride with a 67 deg HTA, so I pulled the angleset.

Most people would consider a 67 deg HTA on a fat bike to be fairly slack. My Fatillac is also running an HTA of 67deg.

Each person and set up has a sweet spot. Slack is relative, too slack has it's disadvantaged as does having an HTA that is too steep.

If you take the time to learn a bike and you can experiment with setups, you'll learn first hand the pros and cons of changing HTA.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

I'm just messin with ya. Its not THE way to slacken a bike up, but it is A way..


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

Been away from the forum for a long time healing up from ruptured Achilles. Been a long brutal recovery. I have read through this thread and there has been so much tech talk back and forth, I am completely confused. 

I run 26X5 Jumbo Jims and I want a fork that will run 100 or 120 on my Les Fat depending on which works best for me.

Based on advertised spec, I would choose the EXT model 120. Then, from what I understand reading here, I could reduce that travel to 100 with reconfiguration. However, I've read some contradicting talk here about using the non EXT model to run 5" tires.

What is the general consensus? EXT???

I'm traveling in Portland Oregon this week so I have the opportunity to visit the Universal Cycles store where they have these in stock, so just wanted to be correctly informed before I purchase. 

Thanks!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

KTMNealio said:


> I'm just messin with ya. Its not THE way to slacken a bike up, but it is A way..


It's a terrible idea, to raise the front end and change all the geo, shortening ETT, raising the bb, and slacking the STA.

Anglesets work, I've used them on multiple bikes and tandems. I'd still be using one on the Wozo if I was running a 120mm fork.

but yeah, I thought you'd gone on a bender


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Shamis said:


> Been away from the forum for a long time healing up from ruptured Achilles. Been a long brutal recovery. I have read through this thread and there has been so much tech talk back and forth, I am completely confused.
> 
> I run 26X5 Jumbo Jims and I want a fork that will run 100 or 120 on my Les Fat depending on which works best for me.
> 
> ...


No, you are all messed up.

The STD should fit a 26 x 5 without modifications. If it needs more clearance you add a spacer to limit travel, but A-C is unchanged.

Get an STD 120 and use a pump to adjust travel between 100-120mm.


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## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Just an FYI:

Ordered a Pro STD when these first came out. Just took it apart for the first time since I was only getting 90mm of travel for what should have been a 100mm fork.

Turns out this is an EXT, not STD set 100 with 7 spacers on the bottom and 1 on top. I removed 2 bottom spacers on each side and now get 110mm without increasing AC length.

Fits a 4.8 JJ on a Medium Carbon Fatboy with out any issues.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

*Dillinger 5 studded*

Did anyone tried Dillingers 5 with 120 STD? Or any of this fork for pivot les fat medium?



BIke N Gear said:


> Just an FYI:
> 
> Ordered a Pro STD when these first came out. Just took it apart for the first time since I was only getting 90mm of travel for what should have been a 100mm fork.
> 
> ...


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

FYI. Anyone looking for a good deal on a EXT 120mm Worldwide just lowered the price to $665. Add in the RIDEFOR20 coupon and it goes to $532. I was tempted to go with EXT with that price, but still got a decent deal on the STD.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just got word that parts are in to change an EXT to an STD. Contact Dirt works.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

MSH said:


> FYI. Anyone looking for a good deal on a EXT 120mm Worldwide just lowered the price to $665. Add in the RIDEFOR20 coupon and it goes to $532. I was tempted to go with EXT with that price, but still got a decent deal on the STD.


Thanks for the deal coupon. I was torn between lauf carbonara (mostly for bikepacking) and mastodon pro (for everything), but finally have decided to go for mastodon pro 120 STD and just ordered one from Worldwide. I think it will be more versatile overall (just a little bit concerned about fork weight though - got used to carbon rigid now).

As far as I understand from Nurse Ben's valuable comments, 120 STD have enough clearance for 26x5 and 27.5x4.5, correct? Is this without modifications or after adding bottom spacer?


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## locoyokel (Mar 9, 2008)

So on a ride on Saturday I got blasted by ice droplets for about 20 minutes, creating a thin layer of verglas on the upper half of the stanchions (guess I was bumping along enough to keep the lower half clear). Looked like trouble but I didn't have anything to clear it with (like maybe an old credit card?). 

On the way down the fork started sinking and I started bottoming out the fork (2000’ descent, pretty rough). I adjusted the low speed damping (red on-the-fly knob) from full open to half closed and it kept the fork from bottoming easily, but even after I dropped down and the ice cleared the fork was still sinking.

Back home next morning, checked air pressure (unchanged) and lowered and raised fork (while pump attached) and everything seems normal. Any ideas? Clear verglas before descents? Something to try adjusting? Increase air pressure (set pretty low normally)? Get fork checked out?

Thanks!


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

Apparently the comp wont work in the cold as well as the pro? So the pro is lighter, better damper and works under -20c?

Also 120 pro can go larger and smaller? Only down to 100mm tho? Or can it go to 80mm


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

Fat-Tire said:


> Mastodon is much wider than the Bluto. So much so that the tire hooks on my Kuat NV bike rack won't fit. :madman:


Have you managed to fit the Mastodon into Kuat NV or you change the bike rack to 1UP? I asked Kuat if I could use any parts from NV2 which supposed to be wider and the answer was no.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

So I'm a bit confused now on the whole adding bottom out spacers to get extra clearance for the STD. I should preface this by saying I'm only the messenger here based on a long discussion I had on the phone with Dirtlabs here in CO https://www.dirtlabs.com

Anyway, I had my 120mm STD Pro dropped shipped to them to have them add one additional bottom out spacer to each leg (so 2 qty B/O spacers total) for the additional clearance and to bump the travel to 130mm. After discussing everything at length via email and then a long phone call today with them they indicated the additional bottom out spacer won't provide any additional clearance for larger tires. I told them my understanding (based on the discussion on this thread) is that at full compression that the crown could contact the tire and that the additional bottom out spacer would supposedly provide additional clearance for larger OD tires. They insisted this is not the case? These guys have been in business a long time and have a great rep (they are also a Manitou official service center), but I'm still a bit skeptical based on all the dialogue here suggesting otherwise. At this point I'm just having them bump the travel to 130mm and hope for the best when I get it and test things out. I have an email into Hayes tech support to try and get the official lowdown as well.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

This post (from a Manitou rep) and the information in the Mastodon Travel Adjust manual seem to make it pretty clear that you can limit the travel to add clearance by changing the spacer configuration.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

david.p said:


> This post (from a Manitou rep) and the information in the Mastodon Travel Adjust manual seem to make it pretty clear that you can limit the travel to add clearance by changing the spacer configuration.


Yup I get it man and I explained that. We even had that travel adjust manual up talking through it, so no idea. Again, I'm just the messenger here


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

MSH said:


> So I'm a bit confused now on the whole adding bottom out spacers to get extra clearance for the STD. I should preface this by saying I'm only the messenger here based on a long discussion I had on the phone with Dirtlabs here in CO https://www.dirtlabs.com
> 
> Anyway, I had my 120mm STD Pro dropped shipped to them to have them add one additional bottom out spacer to each leg (so 2 qty B/O spacers total) for the additional clearance and to bump the travel to 130mm. After discussing everything at length via email and then a long phone call today with them they indicated the additional bottom out spacer won't provide any additional clearance for larger tires. I told them my understanding (based on the discussion on this thread) is that at full compression that the crown could contact the tire and that the additional bottom out spacer would supposedly provide additional clearance for larger OD tires. They insisted this is not the case? These guys have been in business a long time and have a great rep (they are also a Manitou official service center), but I'm still a bit skeptical based on all the dialogue here suggesting otherwise. At this point I'm just having them bump the travel to 130mm and hope for the best when I get it and test things out. I have an email into Hayes tech support to try and get the official lowdown as well.


Adding spacers under the bottom out bumpers is essentially an off label modification. It works and is completely safe but wasn't considered by forks designers and isn't in the official documents at all.

The Mastodon is also unique in the way it is offered in different sizes but with the same lower legs. So don't expect everyone else to know about this and how it works. I don't even know if Manitou tech support know about this.


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## fugsworth (Feb 28, 2015)

MSH said:


> So I'm a bit confused


Yes adding one 10mm spacer to the bottom of each rod will change bottom out tire clearance. The 120std will become 110 with an extra 10mm of tire clearance.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Adding spacers under the bottom out bumpers is essentially an off label modification. It works and is completely safe but wasn't considered by forks designers and isn't in the official documents at all.
> 
> The Mastodon is also unique in the way it is offered in different sizes but with the same lower legs. So don't expect everyone else to know about this and how it works. I don't even know if Manitou tech support know about this.


Ok thanks Dougal. I actually emailed them a screen shot of your post that "david.p" linked to above. I want to get this sorted before they send me my fork



fugsworth said:


> Yes adding one 10mm spacer to the bottom of each rod will change bottom out tire clearance. The 120std will become 110 with an extra 10mm of tire clearance.


Yup got it...unfortunately the guys working on my fork seem to think otherwise


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

2018 Foes Mutz 150 

The all new, longer, lower, slacker version of the original "best bike ever" 
With up to 6.5" of travel, the new Mutz 150 breaks all fatbike rules and is truly ready for anything! 
From big hits in the dirt to snowy flow, this is your one bike to do it all. 

Gx11 with Mastodon 150. Race ready machine!


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## Tim_Ky (Jun 16, 2014)

Bike is at the shop for installation of 100mm standard fork. We did a quick check of the tire clearance for the 29+ Chronicles and it looked good with it fully depressed. More testing is needed though. I’ll try to get some pictures too.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Winter is upon us, so I got the Barbes back on the Wozo.

Set up: Barbe 27.5 x 4.5, Jackalopes, 8 psi, Mastodon STD set at 140mm (one travel spacer), no travel limit spacers used.

Pressure dropped to zero, 200# body weight, repeatedly slammed down on the front end with all I got while moving and there was zero tire to fork interference.

As Dougal said, this is not as safe as Manitou wants, so rider beware 

I also have a Monster fender installed under the fork brace and even with the same zero pressure slamathon I still stayed rolling; the fender did run, but the tire didn't stop.

To be perfectly safe, you should add a single spacer to limit travel.

Gotta love this fork. Using a shock pump I can reduce ride height and tweak handling on the trail, no fat fork touches that!


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Dougal said:


> Adding spacers under the bottom out bumpers is essentially an off label modification. It works and is completely safe but wasn't considered by forks designers and isn't in the official documents at all.
> 
> The Mastodon is also unique in the way it is offered in different sizes but with the same lower legs. *So don't expect everyone else to know about this and how it works. I don't even know if Manitou tech support know about this.*


So you were spot on here(i.e. Manitou tech support not knowing about this). I spoke with Dirtlabs again today, who spoke with Hayes/Manitou tech support at length this morning on adding the bottom out spacers to increase clearance. Manitou is maintaining the same position on this as Dirtlabs, so at the end of the day it sounds like Manitou's official stance on this is adding additional bottom out spacers makes no difference with regards to additional tire clearance....or at least that's what they are saying for whatever reason. 
I just told DL to ship me the fork and I'll hope for the best once I get it and test. Judging by the size/types of tires people are running with the STD I'm not too worried at this point.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Received my Mastodon std today and clearance seems fine compressed all the way with a 4.6 Flowbeist


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bdundee said:


> Received my Mastodon std today and clearance seems fine compressed all the way with a 4.6 Flowbeist


Yup.

Still leaves me wondering about the EXT... perhaps they're gonna increase travel down the road??

I would so take another 10-20mm of travel!


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## Gunther (Dec 5, 2011)

After reading 9 pages of posts I understand STD/EXT, reasons to opt for the 120 over the 100, and ways to adjust travel and bump stop. Can anyone comment on real world differences between the Pro and the Comp (besides the obvious differences on paper)? I had my mind made up on a Bluto for my ICT, but after reading through this thread I'm not so sure. My local terrain features lots of rocks and roots so I'm looking for a fork that will take the edge off but not become a noodle when pushed hard in a corner. Weight and presumably a better damper favor the Pro. My wallet likes the Comp which is widely available and subject to some pretty deep discounts which are undercutting some Bluto offerings. I've not seen very many Pro STDs available and those that I have are close to MSRP. I assume that either would perform better than a Bluto. Any real-world impressions would be greatly appreciated.

GtB


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Comp is a far better fork than a Bluto. The Comp weighs more than a Pro and is limited to 140mm max travel, otherwise they are nearly the same fork.

For gawks sake, don't buy a Bluto, it's a terrible fork. If weight is your issue, get a Lauf or ride rigid.

Friends don't let friends buy a Bluto.

But if you insist, I'll happily sell you my Bluto...



Gunther said:


> After reading 9 pages of posts I understand STD/EXT, reasons to opt for the 120 over the 100, and ways to adjust travel and bump stop. Can anyone comment on real world differences between the Pro and the Comp (besides the obvious differences on paper)? I had my mind made up on a Bluto for my ICT, but after reading through this thread I'm not so sure. My local terrain features lots of rocks and roots so I'm looking for a fork that will take the edge off but not become a noodle when pushed hard in a corner. Weight and presumably a better damper favor the Pro. My wallet likes the Comp which is widely available and subject to some pretty deep discounts which are undercutting some Bluto offerings. I've not seen very many Pro STDs available and those that I have are close to MSRP. I assume that either would perform better than a Bluto. Any real-world impressions would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> GtB


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## Gunther (Dec 5, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Comp is a far better fork than a Bluto. The Comp weighs more than a Pro and is limited to 140mm max travel, otherwise they are nearly the same fork.
> 
> For gawks sake, don't buy a Bluto, it's a terrible fork. If weight is your issue, get a Lauf or ride rigid.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the insight Nurse Ben. It's a Surly so I really can't say weight is my main concern and keep a straight face.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Gunther said:


> Thanks for the insight Nurse Ben. It's a Surly so I really can't say weight is my main concern and keep a straight face.


It's silly to talk about weight when we are riding bikes with large tires and big wheels. If anything, rotational weight has a bigger effect on ride quality than a heavy frame or fork.

I think one of the reasons folks worry about fork weight is that adding weight up front makes it harder to manual... but then so does riding a bike with long chainstays. I ride a Wozo and Fatillac, both have short chainstays, both run a Fatillac, and both manual with ease.

Instead of worrying about weight, folks need to choose bikes with better geometry.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Just another tire clearance datapoint on the STD Pro. Received my fork from Dirtlabs yesterday. They bumped the travel to 130, but did not end up adding any additional bottom out spacers. Installed today and did a test fit with both Chupas on i35s and 4.8 Jumbo Jims on Mulefut 80's. Plenty of clearance on both. Slammed w/ fork aired down the crown contacts the fender just a bit, but there is absolutely no tire rub...not even close....


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## zebster (Nov 16, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> The Comp is a far better fork than a Bluto. The Comp weighs more than a Pro and is limited to 140mm max travel, otherwise they are nearly the same fork.
> 
> For gawks sake, don't buy a Bluto, it's a terrible fork. If weight is your issue, get a Lauf or ride rigid.
> 
> ...


I sure am interested in getting the Mastodon but only because you can put a beefier tire in front. Also it sure is better susupension fork than Bluto, I have no doubt but never tried one. But before even considering getting one, I am going to wait at least a year to hear how Mastodon behaves in low temps.

Currently I have a Bluto, been riding it for a year and a half - including winter. Had some problems with it @ -20C but changing oil to synthetic made it behave well even in lower temps. Overall, I am very happy with it and would never change it to a rigid or Lauf, no way.

I read from internet that Bluto is very bad fork, twisty and everything so Internet must be right . On the other hand, it must be noted that I have never ridden a bike with excellent front end so riding one could change my mind.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

Bluto still has one merit: lightest and cheapest (used) and I would still use one for racing purposes on trails were rigid is rough enough that it causes you to slow down.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

Questions: I have a bucksaw with a bluto 120( yes, I know the bucksaw is designed for a bluto 100 but I run a lot of sag so the leverage should be limited), is the pro 120 worth the difference in price to the 120 comp for a bucksaw? Does anyone know the real difference in ride quality between the pro and the comp? Also, what is the weight difference between the 120 comp, 120 pro and 120 bluto? Any input you guys can give me would be great...thx


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## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Has anyone had problems where the brake post studs were too short? Just received a new Pro Ext for a customer. With a 180 rotor and Guide brakes we had to add a washer between the caliper and fork. I run the exact same setup on my bike and there was no need for that washer to space out the caliper. Has me a little concerned with the quality.


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## mdg3d (Aug 14, 2012)

BIke N Gear said:


> Has anyone had problems where the brake post studs were too short? Just received a new Pro Ext for a customer. With a 180 rotor and Guide brakes we had to add a washer between the caliper and fork. I run the exact same setup on my bike and there was no need for that washer to space out the caliper. Has me a little concerned with the quality.


Same fork and brakes here but didn't have any issues.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> So I have been very interested in the Mastodon and I've read this thread a few times. Though I will admit, I lose focus often.
> 
> I run 26X4.6 Spec GC for fat and 29X3.0 Chupacabra. Right now I run 110mm of travel in my Bluto. 100mm travel did not seem like enough. I had 120mm but it made a difference in geo, but was very rideable. I could deal with the 531mm A2C, but I did not want the 551mm (the extra 20mm ride height for the EXT model). 120mm in the Bluto also made the flex more noticeable to me compared to 100mm.
> 
> ...


Mastodon 120std will not clear Pivot LesFat in medium. It needs maybe 1-2mm. When used with zero stack lower cup. It work with 18mm but it is little high. I will look for couple mm lower cup.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> Mastodon 120std will not clear Pivot LesFat in medium. It needs maybe 1-2mm. When used with zero stack lower cup. It work with 18mm but it is little high. I will look for couple mm lower cup.


You've got to be kidding me. I am just about to make this purchase and I own the Pivot Les Fat in a Medium. I spent some time on the phone with Pivot and they assured me it fits all sizes with the zero stack headset.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

JacekB said:


> Mastodon 120std will not clear Pivot LesFat in medium. It needs maybe 1-2mm. When used with zero stack lower cup. It work with 18mm but it is little high. I will look for couple mm lower cup.


Another option might be the Salsa Cane Creek +3mm crown race Salsa had made to allow the Bluto to clear some of their frames.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

If you rotate the adjustment then yes with slightly touching frame. I have helicopter tape on downtube so it is maybe 0.5mm. But if you have the dumper knob in worst position it needs probably 1 to 2 extra mm. If you find nice cup or headset lower that is just few mm bigger than zero stack than let me know. I can send you picture.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

This sounds really good for me. Where to buy it?


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

Will it work for pivot headset cup and bearings? They have some custom bearings I heard.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

https://www.google.com/search?q=salsa+cane+creek++3mm+crown+race&oq

I'm not sure if it will work with the stock lower cup/bearing on the Pivot. It's designed for the Cane Creek 40 bearing.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

david.p said:


> https://www.google.com/search?q=salsa+cane+creek++3mm+crown+race&oq
> 
> I'm not sure if it will work with the stock lower cup/bearing on the Pivot. It's designed for the Cane Creek 40 bearing.


I use the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 lower cup/bearing so it will work for me


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bpd131 said:


> You've got to be kidding me. I am just about to make this purchase and I own the Pivot Les Fat in a Medium. I spent some time on the phone with Pivot and they assured me it fits all sizes with the zero stack headset.


It's a really wide crown, many bike frames; esp smaller frames, will have clearance issues. It barely clears on a medium Wozo and does not clear on a small Wozo.

Pivot probably hasn't had the chance to test their frames with a Mastodon.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's a really wide crown, many bike frames; esp smaller frames, will have clearance issues. It barely clears on a medium Wozo and does not clear on a small Wozo.
> 
> Pivot probably hasn't had the chance to test their frames with a Mastodon.


Yeah, I've heard and seen it's wide, which is why I went to them. They stated that one of there employees had the fork and tested it. But, maybe it was the comp model they tested, which has the single damping adjuster and was able to clear the frame. The pro mode has two adjusters making it slightly taller and might be causing the issue. Hopefully someone posts a picture.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Gotta love this fork. Using a shock pump I can reduce ride height and tweak handling on the trail, no fat fork touches that!


Can you explain how reduce ride height on the trail? I also want to know if you have to cycle the fork when filling air to balance the chambers? It seems to be the case on my fork.

I have installed IRT on mine, and it works much better than IVT.
About travel, I am dissapointed that not gaining more than 140-142mm travel measured on my fork :-(


----------



## Tiboy (Dec 10, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's a really wide crown, many bike frames; esp smaller frames, will have clearance issues. It barely clears on a medium Wozo and does not clear on a small Wozo.
> 
> Pivot probably hasn't had the chance to test their frames with a Mastodon.


Interesting info. Nurse Ben. I'm considering buying the Wazo in a small, looks like I will not be running a Mastodon on it unless it can be resolved with a specific headset.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Tiboy said:


> Interesting info. Nurse Ben. I'm considering buying the Wazo in a small, looks like I will not be running a Mastodon on it unless it can be resolved with a specific headset.


I'm going install a -1 works components headset on my Wozo/mastodon, I should gain some clearance??


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## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Stock headset and 3mm thick cane creek race allowed plenty of clearance and my small wozo and Mastodon fork crown.

Get a reverse rise stem by syntace to lower the bars. It allows me to run 140mm travel with good positioning with a flat bar.


__
https://flic.kr/p/ZrWy99



Tiboy said:


> Interesting info. Nurse Ben. I'm considering buying the Wazo in a small, looks like I will not be running a Mastodon on it unless it can be resolved with a specific headset.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Attach the pump until it pressurizes, push or pull fork into the preferred travel extension, check pressure, then disconnect. The fork will maintain that travel until the pump is reattached.

Real important to check travel each time pressure is checked as it's super easy to get less extension because the fork will sag from the weight of the bike/gravity.

To get full travel, you will need to pull down on the wheel when the pump is attached, then disconnet before releasing tension.

I get 150mm full travel from my 150mm fork and 140mm full travel from my 140mm fork.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> Can you explain how reduce ride height on the trail? I also want to know if you have to cycle the fork when filling air to balance the chambers? It seems to be the case on my fork.
> 
> I have installed IRT on mine, and it works much better than IVT.
> About travel, I am dissapointed that not gaining more than 140-142mm travel measured on my fork :-(


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

An anglset will add about 10mm of stack, so for those into changing hta you can get a two for one if you have clearance issues.

I don't thnk the Comp and pro have different clearance, same crowns, perhaps the damper knobs are different but not by much.



GspotRider said:


> Stock headset and 3mm thick cane creek race allowed plenty of clearance and my small wozo and Mastodon fork crown.
> 
> Get a reverse rise stem by syntace to lower the bars. It allows me to run 140mm travel with good positioning with a flat bar.
> 
> ...


----------



## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

I should probably run 150mm travel and use this trick to adjust travel when needed instead of opening it up to adjust spacers



Nurse Ben said:


> Attach the pump until it pressurizes, push or pull fork into the preferred travel extension, check pressure, then disconnect. The fork will maintain that travel until the pump is reattached.
> 
> Real important to check travel each time pressure is checked as it's super easy to get less extension because the fork will sag from the weight of the bike/gravity.
> 
> ...


----------



## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

david.p said:


> Another option might be the Salsa Cane Creek +3mm crown race Salsa had made to allow the Bluto to clear some of their frames.


It needs 3mm to be safe and came creek +3mm race will not work with current headset as it has 36deg at bearing and pivot is 45deg


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## donkeykongchamp (Feb 8, 2004)

*Mastodon*

Mastodon guidance... answer found


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> It needs 3mm to be safe and came creek +3mm race will not work with current headset as it has 36deg at bearing and pivot is 45deg


Just pop out the factory black cup and get a Cane Creek ZS56 lower cup and bearing or just get a Cane Creek lower bearing. It has a slightly bigger OD, but on my factory Pivot cup I was able to get it in and out. I'm guessing that tolerances on the cup may not be that precise since it rides on the angle.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

One thing that needs to be considered in all these DIY clearance checks is the bump stop is not being compressed fully. I don't have mine yet but it looks like its about 20mm uncompressed which means it will be about 10mm fully compressed. So whatever 50% of the actual bump stop height is should be subtracted from static clearance checks.

I am referring to tread to crown clearance to be clear.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

rcracer2 said:


> One thing that needs to be considered in all these DIY clearance checks is the bump stop is not being compressed fully. I don't have mine yet but it looks like its about 20mm uncompressed which means it will be about 10mm fully compressed. So whatever 50% of the actual bump stop height is should be subtracted from static clearance checks.


Good point!! Going to double check clearance for sure. That being said if I hit hard enough to fully compress the bump stop I'm pretty sure I'm going to eat sh!t anyways 🤔


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

What has to be done to convert a pro extended to a pro standard? there seems to be a lot of the pro 120 extended(27.5) out there but not many of the pro 120mm 26 inch forks. I have a Bucksaw and I do not want to put a 550mm for on it when I can get a 531mm one......note: seems the 27.5 forks are cheaper.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Not worth the cost and effort, parts will run $75-100, special order from a Manitou certified repair center.



MUSTCLIME said:


> What has to be done to convert a pro extended to a pro standard? there seems to be a lot of the pro 120 extended(27.5) out there but not many of the pro 120mm 26 inch forks. I have a Bucksaw and I do not want to put a 550mm for on it when I can get a 531mm one......note: seems the 27.5 forks are cheaper.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

That extra 19mm will cause you to wheelie out of control...

Just lower your sag by 19mm, or reduce the travel, or.....


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> That extra 19mm will cause you to wheelie out of control...
> 
> Just lower your sag by 19mm, or reduce the travel, or.....


The fork is for a Bucksaw, Salsa says you shouldn't put any fork on the bike longer 511mm's. I am Not comfortable putting a 551mm fork on the bike frame designed for 511mm. I figured I could add sag to a 531mm fork to get it closer to the 511mm max for the frame.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Any of you guys that is feeling play in he fork? I have play that is felt as play between inner and outer stanchions. I have tested these when stand still, and tire against the wall?

It is felt more with more air pressure and more compression damping....


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

MUSTCLIME said:


> The fork is for a Bucksaw, Salsa says you shouldn't put any fork on the bike longer 511mm's. I am Not comfortable putting a 551mm fork on the bike frame designed for 511mm. I figured I could add sag to a 531mm fork to get it closer to the 511mm max for the frame.


You don't need to sag it, hook the shock pump up, compress fork to desired level, and remove pump. It equalizes the pressure between the pos and neg chambers and holds it there.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Any of you guys that is feeling play in he fork? I have play that is felt as play between inner and outer stanchions. I have tested these when stand still, and tire against the wall?
> 
> It is felt more with more air pressure and more compression damping....


Bushings should have ~0.1mm clearance each. Enough to just feel with your fingers when rocking the fork, but not enough to notice while riding.

Tight bushings mean no tolerance for axle clamping and no place for the oil film. Both result in a sticky fork that doesn't like to slide.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Bushings should have ~0.1mm clearance each. Enough to just feel with your fingers when rocking the fork, but not enough to notice while riding.
> 
> Tight bushings mean no tolerance for axle clamping and no place for the oil film. Both result in a sticky fork that doesn't like to slide.


Okay, but it should not be the loose sensation, almost like when you have loose head tube bearings? 
Could something come loose inside the fork, giving these sensation? Or could it be some kind of wrong balance in positive negative chamber air filling, not right balanced, making these sensation?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Okay, but it should not be the loose sensation, almost like when you have loose head tube bearings?
> Could something come loose inside the fork, giving these sensation? Or could it be some kind of wrong balance in positive negative chamber air filling, not right balanced, making these sensation?


I couldn't tell you without feeling the fork myself. But first things to check are axle, brake and headset.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dougal said:


> I couldn't tell you without feeling the fork myself. But first things to check are axle, brake and headset.


Checked all, nothing else to adress the loose sensation. It is felt in the first millimeters of the stroke. When riding hard it is felt most when using compression damping and less without. Really annoying when I was replacing my Wren fork to exactly get rid of this. Still struggling with getting plush ride, since when using enough air pressure to prevent bottom out, it rides to firm. To soft it needs more compression damping and it feels loose. IRT helps but gives not enough bottom out resistance, until I get so much pressure that the fork gets to firm. Using 90psi in the fork now. I am 250-260lbs in winter clothes. Have been riding a super plush fork, a Fox 36 with MRP ramp control, from spring until autumn.Maybe I am spoiled, and have to high expectations?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Checked all, nothing else to adress the loose sensation. It is felt in the first millimeters of the stroke. When riding hard it is felt most when using compression damping and less without. Really annoying when I was replacing my Wren fork to exactly get rid of this. Still struggling with getting plush ride, since when using enough air pressure to prevent bottom out, it rides to firm. To soft it needs more compression damping and it feels loose. IRT helps but gives not enough bottom out resistance, until I get so much pressure that the fork gets to firm. Using 90psi in the fork now. I am 250-260lbs in winter clothes. Have been riding a super plush fork, a Fox 36 with MRP ramp control, from spring until autumn.Maybe I am spoiled, and have to high expectations?


That doesn't sound like bushings. That sounds like something in the damper loose. Send it in for warranty.

Your expectations aren't too high. You should expect this fork to outperform everything else.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

For some reason (comp) I need to run more psi than most others are running, at 180 geared up I'm at about 100psi at 130mm travel with 20% sag?


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

My first fork had a rattling/clunking that seemed related to compression, but after I got my new upper assembly and had the fork completely torn down and put back together it went away. 
So I concur with Dougal.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mine are all tight, three Mastodons to date, they're all solid, all feel the same. The two STD forks I adjusted travel, the EXT was stick 120mm.

Are you sure you have the axle and headset tight? Try adding a thin spacer on your headset.



Rumblefish2010 said:


> Any of you guys that is feeling play in he fork? I have play that is felt as play between inner and outer stanchions. I have tested these when stand still, and tire against the wall?
> 
> It is felt more with more air pressure and more compression damping....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No idea why the Comp would need more air pressure, maybe the comp is different than the pro...

On a Pro I run 50-60psi depending on air temps.

As long as it works, no bother.



bdundee said:


> For some reason (comp) I need to run more psi than most others are running, at 180 geared up I'm at about 100psi at 130mm travel with 20% sag?


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm running 65-70psi to get 25% sag on a Comp @ 160lbs.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Hmmmmmm..........


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

KTMNealio said:


> My first fork had a rattling/clunking that seemed related to compression, but after I got my new upper assembly and had the fork completely torn down and put back together it went away.
> So I concur with Dougal.


okay, so the rattling was inside the compression side? Did you tear down and put together yourself? Maybe it is a good idea to do it through a service workshop?


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> okay, so the rattling was inside the compression side? Did you tear down and put together yourself? Maybe it is a good idea to do it through a service workshop?


I took it too a certified Manitou mechanic.
I couldn't tell where the noise was coming from, just that on very small bumps it would clunk. Same if I compressed it slightly and released it. It was like the compression/rebound rod was loose.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> I took it too a certified Manitou mechanic.
> I couldn't tell where the noise was coming from, just that on very small bumps it would clunk. Same if I compressed it slightly and released it. It was like the compression/rebound rod was loose.


Ask them to check the rebound check shim. This is a shim on the underside of the rebound piston (on the end of the damper shaft) which has a spring behind it. If the spring or shim gets out of place the shim can knock shut instead of closing smoothly.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

Dougal - I sent you a PM if you get a moment to check


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Yeah mine clunks/ticks (comp) when its anywhere but in the wide open position. Any threshold applied at all and tick tick tick all day long.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I realize that not everyone wants or has the dollars to throw at their bike, but I've had great success with the Pro.

Like Dougal said, it's one of the best forks designs out there. We are so lucky to have Manitou on our team 

So Bob, other than the noise, how does it ride? Do you like the Wozo? Have you tried a longer travel, 130-140?



bdundee said:


> Yeah mine clunks/ticks (comp) when its anywhere but in the wide open position. Any threshold applied at all and tick tick tick all day long.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I realize that not everyone wants or has the dollars to throw at their bike, but I've had great success with the Pro.
> 
> Like Dougal said, it's one of the best forks designs out there. We are so lucky to have Manitou on our team
> 
> So Bob, other than the noise, how does it ride? Do you like the Wozo? Have you tried a longer travel, 130-140?


Yeah so far it's been great!! I started at 120 and slowly bumped it up to 140 as I got use to the stack height running it with a -1 deg headset as well. I'm coming off of a neck injury so haven't pushed it real hard yet but it is showing promise.

I was thinking about upgrading the damper to the pro model but not sure if it's worth it or not? What is the price on just the damper?? Too be honest the fork was an impulse buy and I thought the weight was the only difference only to find out the damper is different as well.

Most of my summer riding with it will be park riding (jump lines) so I'm not sure how much the upgraded damper will help? I pretty much run my forks very stiff and not worry about small bumps too much.

Edit: I'm going to bring the bike inside and let the oil warm up to see if that helps the clicking.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

At 140mm travel you got 66deg HTA, might as well pull the angleset, reduce stack by 10mm, still got 67deg HTA, that's how I run mine. It's a nice compromise that way, you can drop it to 120mm and 68deg HTA for snow/XC if you like faster response.

How's Asheville treating you?



bdundee said:


> Yeah so far it's been great!! I started at 120 and slowly bumped it up to 140 as I got use to the stack height running it with a -1 deg headset as well. I'm coming off of a neck injury so haven't pushed it real hard yet but it is showing promise.
> 
> I was thinking about upgrading the damper to the pro model but not sure if it's worth it or not? What is the price on just the damper?? Too be honest the fork was an impulse buy and I thought the weight was the only difference only to find out the damper is different as well.
> 
> ...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I'm just about ready to change my Comp to 140mm. After going over the manuals and instruction video I've come up with the following procedure:

References:
Mastodon service manual: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017-RB-Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Service-Guide.pdf
Mastodon travel adjust manual: https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf
Mattoc travel change video: 




-Remove lowers/casting (service manual pg9 steps 1-5)
-Optional: IVA spring rate adjustment (service manual pg12 steps 1-3) and adjust spring rate spacers
-Remove air spring (service manual pg13 steps 4-5)
-Adjust air spring spacers (spacer guide pg9); remove 2 top-out spacers
-Re-install air spring (service manual pg 14 steps 7-12)
-Optional: Remove compression damper and change damper oil to 2.5wt for cold weather performance
-Re-install lowers/casting (service manual pg 31 steps 1-7)
-Clean fork and set to riding pressure

Edit: Went through this and changing travel was straightforward. Removed steps indicating it should be possible to put bumpers taken from air shaft onto bottom of rebound shaft because the shafts have different diameters on the Comp.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bdundee said:


> Yeah mine clunks/ticks (comp) when its anywhere but in the wide open position. Any threshold applied at all and tick tick tick all day long.


I never reduce damping, so no idea what it sounds like, I suspect the noise you're hearing is the damper controlling oil flow.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm using the procedure I posted above. Changing travel was straightforward but I'd hoped that I'd also be able to increase clearance by 10mm by moving the two top-out spacers taken from the air shaft to the bottom of the air and rebound shafts (one on each). This doesn't work because the two shafts have different diameters.

Unfortunately the travel change guide specifies that both shafts need the same number of bottom-out spacers and gives the part number for the air shaft but not for the rebound shaft. I guess I'll need to contact Manitou to get the bottom-out spacer for the rebound side.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

david.p said:


> I changed my fork from 120mm to 140mm using the procedure I posted above. Changing travel was straightforward but I'd hoped that I'd also be able to increase clearance by 10mm by moving the two top-out spacers taken from the air shaft to the bottom of the air and rebound shafts (one on each). This doesn't work because the two shafts have different diameters.
> 
> Unfortunately the travel change guide specifies that both shafts need the same number of bottom-out spacers and gives the part number for the air shaft but not for the rebound shaft. I guess I'll need to contact Manitou to get the bottom-out spacer for the rebound side.


Dougal seems to have a lot of insight with this fork and he told me specifically that all the spacers were the same. I hope they are because I am doing this same thing as you tomorrow evening on my new Mastodon. In speaking with Dougal, I was referencing the Pro model, is yours the Comp? I am not sure if it is the same rebound damper for both.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Sorry, should have specified that I'm on the Comp. The rebound dampers do have different part #s for Pro and Comp.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

david.p said:


> Sorry, should have specified that I'm on the Comp. The rebound dampers do have different part #s for Pro and Comp.


The difference is about a mm. You can file or dremel the spacer to fit in 2 seconds.
The Pro uses the same spacers on each side


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bpd131 said:


> Dougal seems to have a lot of insight with this fork and he told me specifically that all the spacers were the same. I hope they are because I am doing this same thing as you tomorrow evening on my new Mastodon. In speaking with Dougal, I was referencing the Pro model, is yours the Comp? I am not sure if it is the same rebound damper for both.


Yeah Pro models are 10mm both sides. Comp uses a 12.7mm (1/2") damper shaft.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

*Mastodon Pro STD with Pivot Les Fat Frame and Chupacabra 29+*

OK, so I got my Manitou Mastodon Pro STD 120. I installed it on a Pivot Les Fat size Medium frame. I don't use the standard or the extended lower cup headset, I use a Cane Creek ZS56 lower bearing set. I mention the headset because it is a very close clearance for crown to down tube and different headsets may have different fitment issues. The Mastodon air side clear easily. The damper side may have issues. The red low speed adjuster clears in any position, but at it's tightest point with red tang pointing out to the side, I get about 1-2mm of clearance. The black high speed adjuster, when one of the four ends is pointing straight out, will hit the downtube. However, if they are pointed at the 45 degree angle (or the 1:30 and 4:30 positions) it also clears the frame with about 1mm. I might carefully grind and blend down the ends to have clearance all the time just to be on the safe side. I think the right thing to do is install the Salsa Cane Creek 3mm extended race, that will provide ample clearance. I am unsure if I will do the right thing.

I do realize that with frame or fork flex and the minimal clearance, there could be contact. However, those circumstances with the wheel turned exactly 90 degrees to the right so the crown damper side is under the down tube and the force needed to flex the frame and fork in order to have contact, it will be almost unheard of. If this does happen, think of the catastrophic event that is taking place anyway. :nono:

Now on to tire clearance, obviously the 26X4.6 Ground Controls fit easily. I also have Chupacabra 29X3.0 mounted on 45mm ID rims. The tires are a year old and have had the time to stretch. I mounted this wheel/tire combo and let out all the air in the fork. I hold down the fork until it hits the rubber bottom out bumper and there is about 4-5mm of clearance between the crown and the tire. The rubber bumper can compress, even while in the stand, enough to take away half that clearance. I think with a full force bottom out it may touch the tire, or it will be real close. I think the right thing to do is install a spacer on the bottom of both the air spring and the rebound damper. I wish they made a 5mm spacer, because I would prefer not to use the full 10mm.

If anyone knows of a 5mm Manitou spacer, please post it or send a PM.

Now to finish the swap and get out on the trail with it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You can probably make a 5mm spacer by cutting a 10mm in half, but with that much clearance and all the factors that would have to come together for contact, you're really at low risk; you'd probably be crashing at that moment anyhow 

For the frame-fork interference, I'd get the thicker race.

How does it ride? Are you going to bump the travel?



bpd131 said:


> OK, so I got my Manitou Mastodon Pro STD 120. I installed it on a Pivot Les Fat size Medium frame. I don't use the standard or the extended lower cup headset, I use a Cane Creek ZS56 lower bearing set. I mention the headset because it is a very close clearance for crown to down tube and different headsets may have different fitment issues. The Mastodon air side clear easily. The damper side may have issues. The red low speed adjuster clears in any position, but at it's tightest point with red tang pointing out to the side, I get about 1-2mm of clearance. The black high speed adjuster, when one of the four ends is pointing straight out, will hit the downtube. However, if they are pointed at the 45 degree angle (or the 1:30 and 4:30 positions) it also clears the frame with about 1mm. I might carefully grind and blend down the ends to have clearance all the time just to be on the safe side. I think the right thing to do is install the Salsa Cane Creek 3mm extended race, that will provide ample clearance. I am unsure if I will do the right thing.
> 
> I do realize that with frame or fork flex and the minimal clearance, there could be contact. However, those circumstances with the wheel turned exactly 90 degrees to the right so the crown damper side is under the down tube and the force needed to flex the frame and fork in order to have contact, it will be almost unheard of. If this does happen, think of the catastrophic event that is taking place anyway. :nono:
> 
> ...


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> You can probably make a 5mm spacer by cutting a 10mm in half, but with that much clearance and all the factors that would have to come together for contact, you're really at low risk; you'd probably be crashing at that moment anyhow
> 
> For the frame-fork interference, I'd get the thicker race.
> 
> How does it ride? Are you going to bump the travel?


I actually have the thicker race, just not sure I will use it.

As far as tire clearance, I may put a few layers of duct tape under the crown and see if it rubs, and make a determination from there.

But I am waiting on a brake adapter, so I am hoping to have it ready to ride this weekend. If not, it will be another week. I do have high hopes for the performance.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

With the Barbe 4.5 I have just a few millimeters of clearance, so in theory I could, under hard riding, compress the bottom out damper at the same time the tire could be "stretched" vertically, leading to contact with the steerer... but is that really going to happpen?

Nah 

More likely is I pick up a bunch of mud, hit a compression, and have enough impact to throw me over the bars so I do a fact plant in a puddle.

Yup, that's how it's gonna go 

Running 140mm of travel makes it less likely.



bpd131 said:


> I actually have the thicker race, just not sure I will use it.
> 
> As far as tire clearance, I may put a few layers of duct tape under the crown and see if it rubs, and make a determination from there.
> 
> But I am waiting on a brake adapter, so I am hoping to have it ready to ride this weekend. If not, it will be another week. I do have high hopes for the performance.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> Running 140mm of travel makes it less likely.


Especially if you leave the IVA spacers at the 120mm spring rate setting.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Yeah Pro models are 10mm both sides. Comp uses a 12.7mm (1/2") damper shaft.


I'm about to attempt setting my STD Comp up to 140mm. Do I understand it correctly that it is NOT necessary to make any adjustments to the damper side, only remove 2x 10mm spacers from the air spring side? Thanks, R-


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

rvercoe said:


> I'm about to attempt setting my STD Comp up to 140mm. Do I understand it correctly that it is NOT necessary to make any adjustments to the damper side, only remove 2x 10mm spacers from the air spring side? Thanks, R-


Fork extension is controlled by air side only. The bottom-out bumpers on the Mastodon are on both sides because the fork is so wide.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Hey Dougal,

I'm doing a budget build Wozo for my 21yo son, using parts out of my bin, some new stuff, got a decent deal ($532) on a Mastodon STD Comp 120mm that is currently backordered.

Is there any reason; other than saving $175, that I shouldn't get a Comp?

A Pro would run $700.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Hey Dougal,
> 
> I'm doing a budget build Wozo for my 21yo son, using parts out of my bin, some new stuff, got a decent deal ($532) on a Mastodon STD Comp 120mm that is currently backordered.
> 
> ...


I was thinking how well your son is doing, having his Dad buy and build bikes for him at 21!

Pro is lighter and has a more adjustable damper.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Dougal said:


> Fork extension is controlled by air side only. The bottom-out bumpers on the Mastodon are on both sides because the fork is so wide.


Sorry, I am a newby at doing my own suspension fork work. Sooo, Is that a Yes or a No that I need to mess with the damper side when bumping the STD Comp from 120mm up to 140mm? Thanks Sir.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

rvercoe said:


> Sorry, I am a newby at doing my own suspension fork work. Sooo, Is that a Yes or a No that I need to mess with the damper side when bumping the STD Comp from 120mm up to 140mm? Thanks Sir.


For adjusting travel with with the top set of spacers, no.

Only for adjusting ride height/tire clearance issues using the bottom tokens on the bottom of the damper/air spring. Which is something that NOT specified in manuals.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's really all about me, cuz when he's riding then I have a biking buddy.

Also, he's s a good kid, working and doing college, he even listens to me sometimes 

Yeah, ghetto build Wozo with a Mastodon Comp and my left overs.



Dougal said:


> I was thinking how well your son is doing, having his Dad buy and build bikes for him at 21!
> 
> Pro is lighter and has a more adjustable damper.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

rvercoe said:


> Sorry, I am a newby at doing my own suspension fork work. Sooo, Is that a Yes or a No that I need to mess with the damper side when bumping the STD Comp from 120mm up to 140mm? Thanks Sir.


Step by step instructions for changing travel on the Comp in this post


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's really all about me, cuz when he's riding then I have a biking buddy.


Yep. My kids ride tuesday nights whether they like it or not. 

Prying them away from electronics after school can be hell but 10 min into the ride they are all-in. Of course ice cream or donuts and coco afterwards don't hurt.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Totally, I bribed my kids with coca cola, reduced chores, their choice of dinner, whatever it took. I started riding muni with my son when he was a pre-teen, we rode weekly through high school, it was a once in a lifetime experience.



bme107 said:


> Yep. My kids ride tuesday nights whether they like it or not.
> 
> Prying them away from electronics after school can be hell but 10 min into the ride they are all-in. Of course ice cream or donuts and coco afterwards don't hurt.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

david.p said:


> Step by step instructions for changing travel on the Comp in this post


Yes, That post is super helpful as the best step by step description of the process with all the necessary sources linked. Thanks for posting that up.

My only question came from your edit at the end of that post= "Edit: Went through this and changing travel was straightforward. Removed steps indicating it should be possible to put bumpers taken from air shaft onto bottom of rebound shaft because the shafts have different diameters on the Comp."

There seemed to have been a bit of conflicting opinions as to whether it really IS or is NOT necessary to add some spacers on the damper side to support the additional travel on the air spring side once it is bumped up to 140mm. Cheers, Richard


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Gotcha. 

For just changing travel from 120mm to 140mm, no - nothing is needed on the rebound side. Essentially all that is done is removal of two spacers from the top of the air shaft.

Originally that post had included optional steps for increasing crown clearance by adding bottom out spacers, which are needed on both sides, in addition to increasing the travel. The assumption was that since I was removing two spacers from the top of the air side (this is the part that increases the travel from 120mm to 140mm), I could move the spacers to the bottom of each shaft to add aditional crown clearance (but this also reduces travel by 10mm so net travel would be 130mm).

It was this second part that didn't work out so I removed those steps from the procedure. The procedure is still complete for changing the travel.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Glad that's over, rvercoe you've been officially told at least 3 times now you don't mess with the damper side for travel change  . There has never been conflicting reports on the damper side as that is for limiting travel/crown clearance only and then you still don't need to remove the rebound damper for that adjustment.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

bdundee said:


> Glad that's over, rvercoe you've been officially told at least 3 times now you don't mess with the damper side for travel change  . There has never been conflicting reports on the damper side as that is for limiting travel/crown clearance only and then you still don't need to remove the rebound damper for that adjustment.


So...you're saying I have to remove the steerer from the crown and remove the rebound damper to adjust the air pressure? 
Got it!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

the mayor said:


> So...you're saying I have to remove the steerer from the crown and remove the rebound damper to adjust the air pressure?
> Got it!


:idea::crazy::smilewinkgrin:


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Cheers, y'all are an informative and supportive group. Much obliged, R-


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Reading the discussion above, it seems that 1) the standard version has room for 4.8" tires and 2) if I wanted to increase tire clearance I would move travel adjust spacer(s). Did I get that right? Trying to decide if I should go with the 100mm extended or the 120mm standard version...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes, that's right. Additionally the 120mm can be extended to 140mm while the 100mm can be lowered to 80mm.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

david.p said:


> Yes, that's right. Additionally the 120mm can be extended to 140mm while the 100mm can be lowered to 80mm.


Got it. Thanks!

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

I've seen a lot of talk on this thread about the +3mm lower race for Medium Les Fat, but is anyone actually using it? I'm currently running the the OEM rigid for with +18mm lower cup and 26X4.8 JJ's. I want to install Mastodon 120 Pro STD and thinking the additional A to C would warrant going back to Zero stack lower cup. 

What all do I need to run the +3mm race?

Thanks


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

Shamis said:


> I've seen a lot of talk on this thread about the +3mm lower race for Medium Les Fat, but is anyone actually using it? I'm currently running the the OEM rigid for with +18mm lower cup and 26X4.8 JJ's. I want to install Mastodon 120 Pro STD and thinking the additional A to C would warrant going back to Zero stack lower cup.
> 
> What all do I need to run the +3mm race?
> 
> Thanks


You absolutely do NOT need the +3 for the Les Fat when using the +18 cup. I currently have mine set up with a zero stack and NOT using +3, it just barely clears with knobs facing a certain way. Adding the +3 would make clear no matter which way knobs face.

Using the +3 race would require using a Cane Creek lower bearing or ZS56 lower set.


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks, I would not be using the 18mm if I run the 120 fork, so I would switch back to zero stack.

i read back a little and see that you are running the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 which has a 4mm stack so may not be equal to my set up if I use OEM zero stack, anyway.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

*Mastodon with LesFAT medium extra 3mm race. Limiting travel from 120mm to 110mm*



Shamis said:


> Thanks, I would not be using the 18mm if I run the 120 fork, so I would switch back to zero stack.
> 
> i read back a little and see that you are running the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 which has a 4mm stack so may not be equal to my set up if I use OEM zero stack, anyway.


I have Medium frame LesFat. You need the extra 3 mm. It will clear the knobs when they are in specific position but you would not ride like that. The Mastodon has long part of the fork tube that is wider for the race so you could add machined 3mm aluminium spacer and everything is super solid. Ideally the Cane Creek solution with replaced bottom cup/bearing and the 3+ race. I had it with 18mm cup first but with zero stack cup the bike is better.

I have another question with using 120 mm STD. Everyone is saying you can add spacer or two at the bottom and limit 120mm to 110mm or 100mm even Manitou do not approve that settings. But maybe they do not because the 120mm is using different rebound damper and if you add two spacers at the bottom you may bottom out more often? But then maybe we could add axtra volume reducer to the air chamber. I aske them in email but not answer and I guess they will say it wasn't tested or not designed that way.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

Can you explain why the second part of limiting the travel by 10mm did not work Please ? 

Everyone here is saying that is should. You would think you can limit the travel as long there is space for the extra tokens at the bottom. I think that maybe the rebound damper might not work in designed range as the the fork will never go to the max but I am not sure is that will change the performance. I think you may bottom out more often if you do not add air volume reducing tokens in the air chamber to make it more progressive.

I think I just found the answer you gave before: "On Comp the top shaft and bottom have different diameters." What about PRO? I guess with PRO it will work.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

the mayor said:


> I plan on taking mine( 120 ext) apart again next week to play with travel.
> 
> I also ordered a 120 STD but recieve another EXT


Where did you buy yours. I ordered 120STD and did not pay attention when received buy after riding felt high so I measured AC and it is 551 and there is even a sticker EXT. Did you keep EXT or exchange for STD?


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

Shamis said:


> Thanks, I would not be using the 18mm if I run the 120 fork, so I would switch back to zero stack.
> 
> i read back a little and see that you are running the Cane Creek 110 ZS56 which has a 4mm stack so may not be equal to my set up if I use OEM zero stack, anyway.


The race is a little thicker on the standard Cane Creek Race when compared to the OEM Les Fat. Stack height doesn't measure 4mm on my bike. but who am I to argue with Cane Creek. Regardless, to ensure there are no problems, you should use the 3mm extended race. With the 110 ZS56 and standard race, my knobs clear, but only in the detent positions. If the high speed, black, knob spins slightly (approx 45 degrees), and I turn the wheel 90 degrees (or so), there is contact with the downtube.

I rode my Mastodon 120mm STD today for the first time today on my Medium Les Fat with Cane Creek 110 ZS56, standard race with 29X3.0 on 50mm rims at 14 PSI. No tire rub with crown and no downtube clearance issues. But I must state, it is not the proper way to do things. It's risky, but I don't mind testing things outside the norm.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> The race is a little thicker on the standard Cane Creek Race when compared to the OEM Les Fat. Stack height doesn't measure 4mm on my bike. but who am I to argue with Cane Creek. Regardless, to ensure there are no problems, you should use the 3mm extended race. With the 110 ZS56 and standard race, my knobs clear, but only in the detent positions. If the high speed, black, knob spins slightly (approx 45 degrees), and I turn the wheel 90 degrees (or so), there is contact with the downtube.
> 
> I rode my Mastodon 120mm STD today for the first time today on my Medium Les Fat with Cane Creek 110 ZS56, standard race with 29X3.0 on 50mm rims at 14 PSI. No tire rub with crown and no downtube clearance issues. But I must state, it is not the proper way to do things. It's risky, but I don't mind testing things outside the norm.


Would you rather have EXT version?


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> Would you rather have EXT version?


Absolutely not. I did not want the extra A-C. This is why I am trying to do everything possible without adding unnecessary A-C. I actually enjoy this type of tinkering and figuring these things out. A semi-custom approach to get what I'm after using off the shelf parts, because I don't have the ability and time for custom fabrication.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> Absolutely not. I did not want the extra A-C. This is why I am trying to do everything possible without adding unnecessary A-C. I actually enjoy this type of tinkering and figuring these things out. A semi-custom approach to get what I'm after using off the shelf parts, because I don't have the ability and time for custom fabrication.


Did you try to install the 10mm spacers on the bottom to reduce travel and increase that way clearance? This is what I wanted to do buy I just realized that they send me EXT 120. I could have bought that much cheaper at that time and I bought 120STD. I realized that it is was wrong after installed it.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> Would you rather have EXT version?


Also the EXT Version only addresses tire to crown clearance issues. It does nothing for the crown to downtube issues.

With a little patience, creatvity and effort, I can solve any and all of the potential clearance issues, with 8mm total added to the A-C. Where the EXT version adds 20mm and still has crown clearance issues that would still add another 3mm with the Salsa Race.

Now, I do realize that that the 20mm extra height on the EXT version can be reduced from 20mm to 10mm, therefore decreasing A-C by 10mm as well. Just another way to attack the problem.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> Also the EXT Version only addresses tire to crown clearance issues. It does nothing for the crown to downtube issues.
> 
> With a little patience, creatvity and effort, I can solve any and all of the potential clearance issues, with 8mm total added to the A-C. Where the EXT version adds 20mm and still has crown clearance issues that would still add another 3mm with the Salsa Race.
> 
> Now, I do realize that that the 20mm extra height on the EXT version can be reduced from 20mm to 10mm, therefore decreasing A-C by 10mm as well. Just another way to attack the problem.


By Adding Extra spacer at the top of the air shaft?


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> Did you try to install the 10mm spacers on the bottom to reduce travel and increase that way clearance? This is what I wanted to do buy I just realized that they send me EXT 120. I could have bought that much cheaper at that time and I bought 120STD. I realized that it is was wrong after installed it.


I could do this, but right now my STD version clears my 29x3.0 Chupa with a few mm to spare. I rode it this way yesterday and it did not rub. Therefore, I will not put the full 10mm spacer in there. I ride this bike rigid with fat tires, which will be going on soon, so this fork won't be on long. I will try to find or make a 5mm spacer over the winter and install that for the spring.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> I could do this, but right now my STD version clears my 29x3.0 Chupa with a few mm to spare. I rode it this way yesterday and it did not rub. Therefore, I will not put the full 10mm spacer in there. I ride this bike rigid with fat tires, which will be going on soon, so this fork won't be on long. I will try to find or make a 5mm spacer over the winter and install that for the spring.


Do you keep 18 mm cup installed or changing while going rigid? I changed to ZS Andrzej 120 ext is not so bad but I would prefer STD as I ordered.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> By Adding Extra spacer at the top of the air shaft?


Yes, sort of, but that only adjusts the travel by itself. You would have to remove a spacer from the bottom as well. Removing one from the bottom and adding one to the top, you keep the same amount of travel, but decrease A-C by 10mm.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> Do you keep 18 mm cup installed or changing while going rigid? I changed to ZS Andrzej 120 ext is not so bad but I would prefer STD as I ordered.


No, I ride with the steeper HTA for the winter.


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> Yes, sort of, but that only adjusts the travel by itself. You would have to remove a spacer from the bottom as well. Removing one from the bottom and adding one to the top, you keep the same amount of travel, but decrease A-C by 10mm.


Are you sure you will not hit any internal parts when removing bottom spacer?


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## JacekB (Aug 16, 2016)

bpd131 said:


> No, I ride with the steeper HTA for the winter.


You have always ZS? No problems with low BB and pedals strikes?


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> Are you sure you will not hit any internal parts when removing bottom spacer?


I am sure of nothing, because I do not have the same fork as you. But by understanding how the system works, and knowing that all you are doing is adjusting where on the air shaft that the travel occurs, I don't think it would matter. Now if someone was to start removing numerous spacers from various spots, that will probably lead to a problem eventually.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

JacekB said:


> You have always ZS? No problems with low BB and pedals strikes?


Nah. If you look at the Pivot Les Fat Geometry Website page, the ONLY geo shown using the 18mm cup is the 26x3.8. All other geo references use the zs cup. Not saying I couldn't use it, but it's not worth it to me or my time pressing in and out different cups twice a year.

I ride NE with rocks and roots everywhere, so pedal strikes occur no almost matter what. Eventually you learn to navigate and turn your pedals appropriately.

When you lose your focus like I did once, a pedal strike that sent me over the bars on to my head, you will be reminded quickly. It provided great laughter for my riding partner though, so there's that upside. Just wish it was on video.


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

My bike came with 18mm cup installed since they are spec'd with 26x3.8 tires. I almost immediately swapped for 26x4.8 JJ's and never removed the cup. Running rear as short as possible with minimal clearance. But I have to say, that I would have no interest in riding it with ZS as I would not want to steepen the HA. I think I'll be quite happy with ZS and 120mm STD for as it will gain a tad more slack overall, but with sag, it should be pretty close to my current HA.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Received my Mastodon Pro 120 std yesterday. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. Out of the box there is a fair amount of stiction; much more than I'm used to seeing. Comparing this to an almost new Pike...well, no comparison...

I'll take it for a spin in the next day or two and report back. It's not fully extending either, but that's usually an easy fix.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

compengr said:


> Received my Mastodon Pro 120 std yesterday. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. Out of the box there is a fair amount of stiction; much more than I'm used to seeing. Comparing this to an almost new Pike...well, no comparison...
> 
> I'll take it for a spin in the next day or two and report back. It's not fully extending either, but that's usually an easy fix.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


There's stiction....because it's a tight new fork....like any fork. 
And it's probably not extending because you set your air pressure wrong


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

the mayor said:


> There's stiction....because it's a tight new fork....like any fork.
> And it's probably not extending because you set your air pressure wrong


I'll report back, but like I said, there is a lot of stiction. Much more than I'm used to seeing in a new fork.

As far as airing up the fork, I followed the little instruction sheet that came with fork. Not much to do wrong there.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

compengr said:


> As far as airing up the fork, I followed the little instruction sheet that came with fork. Not much to do wrong there.


You'll want to make sure the fork is fully extended before disconnecting the pump - this fork can change length with a pump connected. Some are using this quirk as a way to lower travel / ride height on the fly.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

compengr said:


> As far as airing up the fork, I followed the little instruction sheet that came with fork. Not much to do wrong there.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yet...you did.
You might want to read this thread to and you see how the air chambers work and what you did wrong


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

the mayor said:


> Yet...you did.
> You might want to read this thread to and you see how the air chambers work and what you did wrong


Flipped the bike over. Adjusted the pressure. Pulled on the fork before disconnecting the pump. What did I miss?

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Try pulling and pushing the fork legs in and out, this will give you an idea of the available travel. A 120 STD will compress to zero and extend to 120. You need to hold the fork at the desired position as you disconnect the pump. No need to flip the bike upside down, I can do mine on the trail

You might want to measure the maximum extension. If it only goes to 100mm, you got the wrong fork. A 120 STD should extend to 120mm.

Stiction? No problems with any of mine, three so far, working on a fourth next week.

Great forks, far better than a Pike (I got one, had a few), maybe your Mastodon needs so break in?



compengr said:


> Flipped the bike over. Adjusted the pressure. Pulled on the fork before disconnecting the pump. What did I miss?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Just installed the new Mastodon Std 120 Pro on my Wozo in place of my Fox 34.

Haven't done any adjustments yet, but there is a pronounced top-out klunk whether the lockout is on or off. Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything I can do to alleviate the problem?

Scanned the threads but did not find any suggestions. Thanks!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Whenever I bottom out, that's generally a sign that I have the pressure set too low.



PCT said:


> Just installed the new Mastodon Std 120 Pro on my Wozo in place of my Fox 34.
> 
> Haven't done any adjustments yet, but there is a pronounced top-out klunk whether the lockout is on or off. Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything I can do to alleviate the problem?
> 
> Scanned the threads but did not find any suggestions. Thanks!


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Not bottom-out, plenty of pressure and not coming close to that. Top-out, as in when you compress the fork and let it rebound to the top, and it makes a Klunk sound.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

PCT said:


> Just installed the new Mastodon Std 120 Pro on my Wozo in place of my Fox 34.
> 
> Haven't done any adjustments yet, but there is a pronounced top-out klunk whether the lockout is on or off. Has anyone else experienced this, and is there anything I can do to alleviate the problem?
> 
> Scanned the threads but did not find any suggestions. Thanks!


Decided to tinker a bit tonight. After going for a quick spin I was able to finally extend the fork to full travel. Not sure what changed. Gave it another try and it extended without rebounding back. So that part seems to be working fine.

As far as top-out noises; even with rebound set to fastest I get nothing but a dull thud of the top out bumper doing its thing. Same exact fork.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

compengr said:


> As far as top-out noises; even with rebound set to fastest I get nothing but a dull thud of the top out bumper doing its thing. Same exact fork.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Wouldn't you want it set on slowest to cushion the top out effect and soften the return?


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Carl Mega said:


> Wouldn't you want it set on slowest to cushion the top out effect and soften the return?


The setting itself is a different topic (and a bit of a personal preference). The point I was trying to make was, even at the fastest return speed I didn't experience a clunk.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

compengr said:


> The setting itself is a different topic (and a bit of a personal preference). The point I was trying to make was, even at the fastest return speed I didn't experience a clunk.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Gotcha. We're saying the same thing - I misread your comment. For other poster - PCT: see if slowest rebound changes anything. Still clunk?

Edit: Another thing to check - HS tightness. When I first installed mine, I had a bit of clunk that I was sort of writing off as being the fork. Happened during manuals and hefting the front end. My HS from all the normal checks was tight. However, I decided to give that HS just a bit more of a turn and it all went away. Didn't process on it very much but sort of thought that maybe the big, heavy front wheel/tire carried a lot of momentum (when returning) and made a just ever so slightly loose HS move enough to make a top out feeling.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

compengr said:


> Decided to tinker a bit tonight. After going for a quick spin I was able to finally extend the fork to full travel. Not sure what changed. Gave it another try and it extended without rebounding back. So that part seems to be working fine.
> 
> As far as top-out noises; even with rebound set to fastest I get nothing but a dull thud of the top out bumper doing its thing. Same exact fork.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Have you checked to see if the lower bearing race settled in? May just have to tighten up the stack. Happened to me. after 2 rides.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Blaster182 said:


> Have you checked to see if the lower bearing race settled in? May just have to tighten up the stack. Happened to me. after 2 rides.


I think you comment was meant for PCT. It could certainly be something other than the fork. I had a loose axle feel like a top-out issue once. Best to check all the obvious stuff first before diving into the fork.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Anyone tried installing the IRT upgrade in the Mastodon?


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

compengr said:


> I think you comment was meant for PCT. It could certainly be something other than the fork. I had a loose axle feel like a top-out issue once. Best to check all the obvious stuff first before diving into the fork.


Sometimes we overlook the simple stuff.


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## daver38 (Nov 26, 2015)

*IRT Upgrade*



HDTVdevil said:


> Anyone tried installing the IRT upgrade in the Mastodon?


I've got one but not had time to install it yet.....watch this space!


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## LargeMan (May 20, 2017)

compengr said:


> Received my Mastodon Pro 120 std yesterday. I have to say I'm somewhat disappointed. Out of the box there is a fair amount of stiction; much more than I'm used to seeing. Comparing this to an almost new Pike...well, no comparison...
> 
> I'll take it for a spin in the next day or two and report back. It's not fully extending either, but that's usually an easy fix.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Mine had a lot of stiction as well, thought I made a mistake in buying. After 30 miles of use, the fork is amazing, just take some miles to break in. Just like the old Marz forks. IMO, this is how a fork should come, if there is no stiction to start then when it breaks in you will have slop or need more service intervals.


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

My Mastodon PRO STD showed up yesterday. Because this thread is so long and confusing I am hoping to verify that I have the spacer set up correct.

I am looking to set it up with 140mm travel minus 10 to safely account for large tires. This will leave me with 130mm travel with minimal impact to current handling characteristics and balance travel with my rear suspension. 

My belief is that I should have 1 top out spacer for 140mm travel and 2 bottom out spacers to increase the axle to crown length. Is that correct?

Thanks



Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Stu Pidassle said:


> I am looking to set it up with 140mm travel minus 10 to safely account for large tires. This will leave me with 130mm travel with minimal impact to current handling characteristics and balance travel with my rear suspension.
> 
> My belief is that I should have 1 top out spacer for 140mm travel and 2 bottom out spacers to increase the axle to crown length. Is that correct?


Yes, that spacer config will get you 140mm - 10mm = 130mm net travel and 10mm additional crown clearance.

The one clarification I would make has to do with this statement:



> This will leave me with 130mm travel with minimal impact to current handling characteristics...


The ride height in the 140mm - 10mm configuration is the same as the ride height in the 140mm configuration; adding bottom out spacers reduces available travel without lowering the fork so A-C for the unsagged fork is still 551mm.

I don't think this will change your plans but if you were expecting the 140mm - 10mm config to handle any differently than the 140mm config, it won't.


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

david.p said:


> Yes, that spacer config will get you 140mm - 10mm = 130mm net travel and 10mm additional crown clearance.
> 
> The one clarification I would make has to do with this statement:
> 
> ...


Thank you. My statement about impacting handling was specific to running the STD vs. EXT version of the fork. I also plan on cutting the steerer tube to eliminate the number of headset spacers vs. the bluto keep my handle bars in roughly the same place. My current setup has 2+ inches of spacers.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

A quick update. I have a handful of rides on the fork and it is indeed breaking in. There is still a small amount of stiction at room temperature, but i only notice it when working on the bike. Nothing when riding. Another thing I noticed is it's completely stiction free when out in the cold. Don't know if that's by design (could very well be). Either way, I'm happy. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Building up my old Wozo for my son, outfitted with a Mastodon Comp STD 120mm.

Bumped the travel to 140mm, easy peazy, same process as the Pro.

After having done this a few times, it takes me no more than twenty minutes with the fork off the bike.

Then yesterday afternoon I took out my Wozo and did an extended ride in the hills behind our new house, dirt roads that lead out and way out, ended up taking the shortcut back, basically a mountain side of baby head lava boulders, some serious risk for self harm, and it was child's play 

Big tires and big suspension are made for that kind of stuff, but next time I'm taking the Barbes!

I rode down that slope from the top and I didn't even land on my head once!


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

Well, after all the hemming and hawing, I finally pulled the trigger on a Pro STD 120 for my Les Fat. Also ordered the cane creek lower headset and +3mm race. 

Since I haven't seen many pics in this thread, I definitely post up a couple after I install the fork.


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## Kungfupanda (Dec 22, 2017)

Offering a breath of fresh Eye Candy for those who might find value.

120STD set at 140 on Crestone. Somewhat saddened by the image quality.


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

Is anyone rocking this fork on a Beargrease yet? Specifically a large aluminum Beargrease. Trying to decide between this and the bluto. From what I've read, as long as this fork fits right, it's the clear winner.

Thanks!,


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## Shamis (Apr 12, 2015)

Ok, got my 120 Pro STD on my Medium Les Fat. I'm pretty happy with this fork as it looks the beast and I have some confidence that it will meet my expectations of stiffness. Leaving it 120 for now. Will do some experimentations with aire pressure and dampening over the next few rides and this will determine if it stays on. Every previous attempt of me adding a fork to a hard tail has always resulted in reverting back to full rigid.

Cane Creek ZS56 110 Lower Bearing and +3mm race. Looks like it has created the perfect clearance for the control lever.

Perfect tire clearance with JJ 4.8 on Mulefuts.

I saw someone else on here who was complaining of compatibility with their Kuat NV rack. I found a solution and tested on 65 miles of winding rough mountain roads with no issues.

Hopefully a maiden voyage of Santa Cruz Mountain singletrack tomorrow morning.


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## monkey bike (Nov 14, 2014)

I'm about to pull the trigger on a 120 Pro STD for my large farley ex 9.8, but couldn't find a definitive answer if it clears the downtube, even though trek is spec'ing the 18's with the comp. Anyone?


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## Stu Pidassle (Feb 6, 2010)

monkey bike said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on a 120 Pro STD for my large farley ex 9.8, but couldn't find a definitive answer if it clears the downtube, even though trek is spec'ing the 18's with the comp. Anyone?


I know someone is running that set up. Clearance is a challenge, he removed the adjuster knobs to give it a bit more space and added some frame protection.

For factory Farley's with the Mastodon doesn't Trek utilize the knock block device on the headset to protect the frame from the fork? Could you use one of those for your bike?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk


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## Sparkman999 (Dec 19, 2017)

Something like this may give the needed clearance: https://www.mtbtools.com/product/extended-crown-race-for-fat-bike-suspension-fork-clearance/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Thanks to all that have posted here...it's been a good read and really helped me understand this fork. I've now got a Pro 120 Std which I've just put through it's first ride today. A couple quick notes:

I did not find it to have any stiction out of the box. Maybe some do but this one felt like butter to me.

I know the book says the Surly Bud won't work but I gave it a try anyway mostly because I don't have time to adjust it right now. Anyway, the Bud does rub the bottom of the crown just a tiny bit when you bottom the fork pretty hard. Not enough to send me over the bars but noticeable enough that I can agree with Manitou and suggest you don't do it without knowing the risk. I did let the air out of the fork and compress it to check the clearance and did not have any rubbing when doing this statically. So, the bumper must be doing it job well compressing a fair bit when needed which allows the rub. 

Yes, I could bottom the fork off a small jump on the trails with 95psi in the fork. I'm a tall, 245lb rider so I tend to be rough on things. I started kinda low with pressure based on feedback from this forum and it honestly feels really great most of the time but I'll need to add pressure for bigger hits and summer riding where more speed is involved. Not a big deal as the label on the fork suggests I could run more psi anyway.

I plan to adjust this to 130mm travel by removing two spacers at the top and adding one at the bottom when I get the time. I know that will increase the A-C but I think it's worth trying before deciding. That should stop the tire rub on bigger hits and give a touch more travel to soak up those hits.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Hey guys,i have followed this thread with interest as a plan on putting a Mastodon on the front of my Salted rock candy(dual sus fatty).It has a bluto now,which is adequate for general trail duties but not for what the bike is capable of.Now,there is a company based down here in Australia selling Mastodon forks for a very reasonable price,BUT the stanchions are SILVER ?!! Ive loooked on the Manitou website and even asked the Manitou facebonk page and they didnt reply if they did a run of non black forks,but were interested to know the company that was selling them.This company is legit,ive bout from them before and no dramas whatso ever but im wondering if they have picked up Counterfit forks and not themselves realised.(I emailed them in regards to the silver stanchions and they seemed to know nothing at all about the fork(ie could it be extended etc..)but they said they were a liscenced dealer for Manitou,and they do carry other manitou forks that all look legit.Seeing as some of the posters here seem to be very much in the know I thought perhaps someone on here could shed some light on this,cheers


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bikemad1 said:


> Hey guys,i have followed this thread with interest as a plan on putting a Mastodon on the front of my Salted rock candy(dual sus fatty).It has a bluto now,which is adequate for general trail duties but not for what the bike is capable of.Now,there is a company based down here in Australia selling Mastodon forks for a very reasonable price,BUT the stanchions are SILVER ?!! Ive loooked on the Manitou website and even asked the Manitou facebonk page and they didnt reply if they did a run of non black forks,but were interested to know the company that was selling them.This company is legit,ive bout from them before and no dramas whatso ever but im wondering if they have picked up Counterfit forks and not themselves realised.(I emailed them in regards to the silver stanchions and they seemed to know nothing at all about the fork(ie could it be extended etc..)but they said they were a liscenced dealer for Manitou,and they do carry other manitou forks that all look legit.Seeing as some of the posters here seem to be very much in the know I thought perhaps someone on here could shed some light on this,cheers


Who's the seller? There has been a change in Aus distributor in the last year, but I've never seen or heard of a Mastodon with silver stanchions. It could be an OEM special build.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

ive seen in posted by some aus sellers, silver stanchion


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

they are a company called cyclingdeal. I found them on ebay.com.au .They claim to be a liscenced dealer,they have plenty of Manitou forks in their lineup so Idont doubt them,but like I said based on their reply they dont know much about them.The guy on the facebook Manitou page said he would look into it,as yet no reply.If they are legit and Made by manitou then I might jump on them,they are 650au and free postage


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

I think its just cyclingdeal,or have you seen them elsewhere as well mate?


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

https://m.ebay.com/itm/Manitou-Mast...hytbte3shyXwQK7W&_trksid=p2489528.m4335.l8656 quick Google


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Thats interesting MozFat,also looks like cyclingdeal is probably a branch of the american version.Would love to find out why the colour difference though,perhaps some prototypes they did before the settled on Black stanchions and just want to offload them?!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bikemad1 said:


> they are a company called cyclingdeal. I found them on ebay.com.au .They claim to be a liscenced dealer,they have plenty of Manitou forks in their lineup so Idont doubt them,but like I said based on their reply they dont know much about them.The guy on the facebook Manitou page said he would look into it,as yet no reply.If they are legit and Made by manitou then I might jump on them,they are 650au and free postage


That's a US seller and the fork is a Mastodon Comp that appears to be OEM. Because OEM can order whatever spec they want, you won't know what it actually is until you've got it.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Sorry,what does OEM mean?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bikemad1 said:


> Sorry,what does OEM mean?


Original Equipment Manufacturer. It means they were made in a special spec for a bike company.

They're different to the ones sold aftermarket retail.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Dougal said:


> Original Equipment Manufacturer. It means they were made in a special spec for a bike company.
> 
> They're different to the ones sold aftermarket retail.


Ah I see. So some company wanted the fork for a particular model but with silver stanchions. So these would be a legit product.Any idea if they would be any better or worse than the black ones?


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

The silver stanchions are different... Thankfully, both of mine are black.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

well at least they seem legit


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Troy Carter said:


> Yes, I could bottom the fork off a small jump on the trails with 95psi in the fork. I'm a tall, 245lb rider so I tend to be rough on things. I started kinda low with pressure based on feedback from this forum and it honestly feels really great most of the time but I'll need to add pressure for bigger hits and summer riding where more speed is involved. Not a big deal as the label on the fork suggests I could run more psi anyway.


Have you considered using the IVA to adjust the spring rate? If you decide to keep the fork at 120mm, setting the IVA to the 100mm config will allow you to use lower pressure and not use all the travel as easily.

If you go to 140mm then leaving the IVA at 120mm would probably be a good idea.

When I changed my fork to 140mm I left the IVA at 120mm. In stock config I was regularly using all the travel, after the change I've yet to use full travel (though most riding has been on snow since the change). I haven't yet added the additional bumpers for tire clearance - after doing that I may adjust the IVA to allow the travel to be used more easily.


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

Delete


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

david.p said:


> Have you considered using the IVA to adjust the spring rate? If you decide to keep the fork at 120mm, setting the IVA to the 100mm config will allow you to use lower pressure and not use all the travel as easily.
> 
> If you go to 140mm then leaving the IVA at 120mm would probably be a good idea.
> 
> When I changed my fork to 140mm I left the IVA at 120mm. In stock config I was regularly using all the travel, after the change I've yet to use full travel (though most riding has been on snow since the change). I haven't yet added the additional bumpers for tire clearance - after doing that I may adjust the IVA to allow the travel to be used more easily.


I honestly have not got that far yet. I got the fork, dropped it on and rode it. I'm hoping to adjust the travel this week if I have time and ride it a bit more before deciding what to do with any other adjustments. But, it's interesting you say this because I thought I had read that adding travel without adjusting the IVA will make the fork more progressive and stiffer at the limit which could help me and you seem to confirm that.


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## Rangie (Jan 17, 2015)

How are these forks handling the cold?


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Rangie said:


> How are these forks handling the cold?


I've only got a few rides in on mine so far. All rides between -5°f and +5°f and it's been perfect so far.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I've on many rides with mine and down to about -5 f and it has been flawless. Actually so good I forget about it.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Does anyone sell the fork set at 140mm or do you have to adjust the 120mm version?

I'm assuming the Pro standard version (not ext) would work for a Fatillac?


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Troy Carter said:


> I honestly have not got that far yet. I got the fork, dropped it on and rode it. I'm hoping to adjust the travel this week if I have time and ride it a bit more before deciding what to do with any other adjustments. But, it's interesting you say this because I thought I had read that adding travel without adjusting the IVA will make the fork more progressive and stiffer at the limit which could help me and you seem to confirm that.


I'm 255 and I run alll 4 IVA tokens above the piston/seal. Without that I would either bottom out or it's too harsh.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

Shark said:


> Does anyone sell the fork set at 140mm or do you have to adjust the 120mm version?
> 
> I'm assuming the Pro standard version (not ext) would work for a Fatillac?


i'm sure your vendor can make the change to 140mm for you before shippping.


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

You guys that are extending these forks are paying attention to the fork requirements of the frame makers. You put a 160mm fork on a frame that was designed for a 120mm fork, you risk tearing the head tube off the frame. That fork is a big lever arm and by increasing its the length you are increasing the load on the frame.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

MUSTCLIME said:


> You guys that are extending these forks are paying attention to the fork requirements of the frame makers. You put a 160mm fork on a frame that was designed for a 120mm fork, you risk tearing the head tube off the frame. That fork is a big lever arm and by increasing its the length you are increasing the load on the frame.


Wouldn't that only be a risk if it changes the A-C distance? Changing the 120mm to 140mm keeps the same A-C.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

HDTVdevil said:


> Wouldn't that only be a risk if it changes the A-C distance? Changing the 120mm to 140mm keeps the same A-C.


Ummmm no, it lengthens the axle to crown measurements by 20mm.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

bdundee said:


> Ummmm no, it lengthens the axle to crown measurements by 20mm.


Think the docs say 571mm for both.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

From the Mastodon travel change guide:


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

HDTVdevil said:


> Think the docs say 571mm for both.


Your docs are wrong then. Think about where the axle is and then where the crown race sits. Now make them 20mm further apart. That gives you a longer a2c.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Point being that the extra travel has to come from somewhere. When you lengthen the travel by removing top out spacers you are allowing the fork to extend further and increasing the A-C.

It's possible to configure the Mastodon to use only the bottom out spacers to limit travel giving the same 551mm A-C for the STD fork at 120mm and 140mm but that's not how it's configured from the factory or spec'd, likely because that would make the fork taller than most would want in the 120mm configuration.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

bdundee said:


> Your docs are wrong then. Think about where the axle is and then where the crown race sits. Now make them 20mm further apart. That gives you a longer a2c.


Are you sure it's not just limiting the travel inside similar to a lefty?


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

KTMNealio said:


> I'm 255 and I run alll 4 IVA tokens above the piston/seal. Without that I would either bottom out or it's too harsh.


Thanks for that. I'll make an adjustment to the IVA when I get in there and see how it changes things.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Don't ask, don't tell.



MUSTCLIME said:


> You guys that are extending these forks are paying attention to the fork requirements of the frame makers. You put a 160mm fork on a frame that was designed for a 120mm fork, you risk tearing the head tube off the frame. That fork is a big lever arm and by increasing its the length you are increasing the load on the frame.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Shark said:


> Are you sure it's not just limiting the travel inside similar to a lefty?


Positive  we are not talking about limiting but extending. Now if someone has 20mm of spacers limiting the travel by the bottom out bumpers on a 140 fork giving you only 120mm of travel but the same a2c of of 140 than yes removing said spacers would give you back all 140 and keeping the A2C the same. That being said they are not configured that way (as stated above) and have absolutely no idea why one would set up a fork like this that way. Now a lefty that's another story.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Troy Carter said:


> Thanks for that. I'll make an adjustment to the IVA when I get in there and see how it changes things.


I should also put that I run about 95 psi (on my gauge). Before I swapped the tokens I had to run 110 psi to keep it from blowing through the stroke.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

bdundee said:


> Positive  we are not talking about limiting but extending. Now if someone has 20mm of spacers limiting the travel by the bottom out bumpers on a 140 fork giving you only 120mm of travel but the same a2c of of 140 than yes removing said spacers would give you back all 140 and keeping the A2C the same. That being said they are not configured that way (as stated above) and have absolutely no idea why one would set up a fork like this that way. Now a lefty that's another story.


Gotcha thanks, I just saw the a2c table above.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

My wife keeps bugging me that I swap parts between bike to make a rideable one lol....(only have 1 lefty)....

Problem solved.
Worldwide cyclery with 20% of coupon, along with 6% back from gear obsession. Couldn't pass it up.

Now I need a new front wheel lol.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Just experienced the second Mastodon. Sold the previous with my Mutz. The new mastodon is a STD set at 150. Want to say it that it is just up there with the best forks. So smooth so plush. I use it with the IRT kit set at 120-140psi and the shock at 72psi.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

Add my name to the long list of people praising the Mastodon!

I have a 120mm EXT Pro. Mounted up on my medium BlackBorrow with no clearance issues. It did raise the front quite a bit, but I expected that. I also had to buy yet another Hope brake mount adapter, as this is the first fork I have had with a 180mm post mount.

I never really had any beef with my Bluto, but it was getting tired,and I wanted a bit more travel. The Mastodon is much smoother than the Bluto, and so much beefier. Its exactly 1lb heavier than the Bluto, at 4.98 lbs.

I'm a 250lb rider, and am still playing with the suspension settings. I have run just over 100 pounds of pressure and use all the travel on jumps and small drops to flat (2' or so). I am going to play around with the volume spaces to see if I can make it a bit more progressive.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

9GUY9 said:


> I'm a 250lb rider, and am still playing with the suspension settings. I have run just over 100 pounds of pressure and use all the travel on jumps and small drops to flat (2' or so). I am going to play around with the volume spaces to see if I can make it a bit more progressive.


I'm 255 and I run all 4 IVA tokens above the piston/seal. I then run 95 psi (on my Fox pump) and that seems to be a really good balance between bottoming resistance on jumps and plushness in the chatter. I run high speed all the way out and compression 2 clicks in. You might start around there..
With the way the fork was stock (1 token above) it would blow through the whole stroke and I could feel it bottom out. With the 4 tokens above I never "feel" it bottom out but the o-ring says I'm using everything...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just a thought about the STD vs EXT fork option:

It’s not generally necessary to buy the EXT version of the Mastodon because nearly all the existing fat and tall tires clear the STD crown and bridge. 

Even in those cases where the clearance is “close”, the addition of a single 10mm spacer will provide a margin of safety without having an increase of 20mm in A to C.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

ive seen the "extended "version also advertised as 27.5,as opposed to 26-is this the case or have I misinterpreted it?Also anyone think the silver stanchioned versions of the mastodon would be a lesser preformer than the black stanchions? My bluto is black stanchioned and has stiction like a fat kid on a slippery dip.They are on sale here in Australia for 650 ($520) US free postage and are advertised as 27.5 or 26,hence my previous question.Thoughts please folks,cheers


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

bikemad1 said:


> ive seen the "extended "version also advertised as 27.5,as opposed to 26-is this the case or have I misinterpreted it?Also anyone think the silver stanchioned versions of the mastodon would be a lesser preformer than the black stanchions? My bluto is black stanchioned and has stiction like a fat kid on a slippery dip.They are on sale here in Australia for 650 ($520) US free postage and are advertised as 27.5 or 26,hence my previous question.Thoughts please folks,cheers


The silver versions were OEM I believe....


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Not sure if this was asked before, is Mattoc IRT upgrade compatible with Mastodon pro forks?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, I think that's how they are listed in some places.

I have no idea about those silver stanchion'd Mastodon's, but in my experience there's a reason they are a different color and it probably ain't for looks; think price break.

Nothing wrong with the Comp, I put one on my son's bike, but it is heavier and it is not going to be as well dampened as the Pro.



bikemad1 said:


> ive seen the "extended "version also advertised as 27.5,as opposed to 26-is this the case or have I misinterpreted it?Also anyone think the silver stanchioned versions of the mastodon would be a lesser preformer than the black stanchions? My bluto is black stanchioned and has stiction like a fat kid on a slippery dip.They are on sale here in Australia for 650 ($520) US free postage and are advertised as 27.5 or 26,hence my previous question.Thoughts please folks,cheers


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

So do you think the silver stanchions would be worse from a preformace point of view?My X-fusion sweep on the front of my Trek Slash was super smooth with silver stanchions,better than a Yari I rode with the black anodised ones


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

bikemad1 said:


> So do you think the silver stanchions would be worse from a preformace point of view?My X-fusion sweep on the front of my Trek Slash was super smooth with silver stanchions,better than a Yari I rode with the black anodised ones


The smoothness or lack of stiction has more to do with seals and internal design than the color of the stanchions.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Headset keeps coming loose on every ride. LBS cannot diagnose.

Manitou Mastodon Std Pro 120mm installed on Kona Wozo with Chris King headset. Previous fork installed was Fox 34 140 27.5 Plus Boost which worked great with this bike/headset and did not loosen.

LBS has checked all parts of the headset, crown race, etc. They say the star nut keeps pulling loose. Tried a CK star nut. Tried a star nut that was 1"-1.125", tried one that was 1.125". Tried a compression plug and tightened it so hard it broke the bolt.

Conjecture is that it has something to do with the inner diameter of the steer tube. They say maybe it's a warranty issue. Anyone know what the hell is going on?


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

PCT said:


> Headset keeps coming loose on every ride. LBS cannot diagnose.
> 
> Manitou Mastodon Std Pro 120mm installed on Kona Wozo with Chris King headset. Previous fork installed was Fox 34 140 27.5 Plus Boost which worked great with this bike/headset and did not loosen.
> 
> ...


Star nut isn't what holds your headset together. It's for setting preload.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

compengr said:


> Star nut isn't what holds your headset together. It's for setting preload.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Yeah I hear that once the preload and stem bolts are tightened, you can actually take off the cap. Maybe something is up with the stem or stem/steerer interface?


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

PCT said:


> Yeah I hear that once the preload and stem bolts are tightened, you can actually take off the cap. Maybe something is up with the stem or stem/steerer interface?


Most likely.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

PCT said:


> Yeah I hear that once the preload and stem bolts are tightened, you can actually take off the cap. Maybe something is up with the stem or stem/steerer interface?


Yes, this is a stem/headset problem. Check and clean all the clamping surfaces. Also check the headset has been assembled correctly.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Yes, this is a stem/headset problem. Check and clean all the clamping surfaces. Also check the headset has been assembled correctly.


LBS said they checked all the headset components.

Will clean all clamping surfaces and try a different stem to see if that solves it...


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Take this for what it's worth.
My headset kept getting loose on my first Mastodon upper. I noticed (but didn't measure to verify) that the steer tube looked like it was more inset (from the bottom). I ended up getting a new upper from Manitou and haven't had any problems since.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> I ended up getting a new upper from Manitou and haven't had any problems since.


This is super interesting. In 34 years mtbing, working as a professional wrench and obviously on my own stuff - the Mastodon is the only fork this happened to where I did the install myself. Interesting that there's three of us on the thread that it happened to too.

My star nut keeps pulling out - micro by micro but sure enough. The stem is tight but after riding some (I do A LOT of long wheelies which I though was culprit) I get some subtle play.

My next steps were to disassemble, reset the star nut and maybe rough up the steerer tube where the stem clamps. Now I wonder.

Edit: you can actually see my post here on 12-7 talking about finding my HS loose; I later discovered that the starnut was indeed moving. just been tightening as matter of course and not taking the time to diagnose - but now I'm curious.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Is the top of the steerer lower than the bottom of the cap? There typically needs to be 2-3mm of a gap there to allow for preload to be set properly. Only other thing that comes to mind...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Star nuts are for preload only, if your stem is not properly clamped on your steerer, the headset will loosen and the Star nut will get pulled out. Over torquing a star nut will also pull it out.

There is nothing wrong with the fork.



Carl Mega said:


> This is super interesting. In 34 years mtbing, working as a professional wrench and obviously on my own stuff - the Mastodon is the only fork this happened to where I did the install myself. Interesting that there's three of us on the thread that it happened to too.
> 
> My star nut keeps pulling out - micro by micro but sure enough. The stem is tight but after riding some (I do A LOT of long wheelies which I though was culprit) I get some subtle play.
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Your LBS thinks the star nut keeps the headset tight? No mention of your stem, trying a different stem, etc...

I think you should go to s different shop.



PCT said:


> Headset keeps coming loose on every ride. LBS cannot diagnose.
> 
> Manitou Mastodon Std Pro 120mm installed on Kona Wozo with Chris King headset. Previous fork installed was Fox 34 140 27.5 Plus Boost which worked great with this bike/headset and did not loosen.
> 
> ...


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

compengr said:


> Is the top of the steerer lower than the bottom of the cap? There typically needs to be 2-3mm of a gap there to allow for preload to be set properly. Only other thing that comes to mind...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I've seen this on a few friends bikes, always the same thing, the steer tube was slightly too long. It might look like you have 1/8" when assembling, but then you preload, and depending how many spacers etc you have along with the stem, you can lose that gap and the bottom of the cap touches the top of the steer tube.
Ride or two later, loose.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Star nuts are for preload only, if your stem is not properly clamped on your steerer, the headset will loosen and the Star nut will get pulled out. Over torquing a star nut will also pull it out.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the fork.


Preload is the difference between "loose" and "properly adjusted." Preload is not, as your post suggests, the process of getting the headset ready for the stem to be tightened. The bearing preload, aka, the force that keeps the headset properly adjusted, is applied and held there by the headset bolt/star nut. If the star nut is "pulling out," it is not properly installed or tight enough in the steerer tube.

The stem has nothing to do with headset preload and does not have a fastener in any plane that would assist with maintaining bearing preload.

If the star nut backs out of the steerer, the headset will not maintain proper preload regardless of if the stem is properly torqued or not.

And a star nut is not "torqued" in any sense of the word. The bolt that tightens into the star nut is adjusted and tightened to create the proper preload. The bolt's torque is that which is necessary to create proper bearing preload, like a wheel bearing, not a particular torque setting.

I suspect, as some above have suggested, that the steerer tube is too long and doesn't have enough spacers to actually achieve preload. Try a small additional spacer or replacing a small one with a slightly larger one and see if it solves your problem. If the headset cap is bottoming out on the steerer before it can pull the assembly together, you will have no preload and your headset will be too loose.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Star nuts are for preload only, if your stem is not properly clamped on your steerer, the headset will loosen and the Star nut will get pulled out. Over torquing a star nut will also pull it out.
> 
> There is nothing wrong with the fork.


Yeah, I hear ya. But I've been through all the obvious stuff. Headset is dandy. The stem is clamped just fine torque-wise. The cap is seats as it should - with a gap; I even upsized an under spacer just to check - same.

So I think you're missing the point. I need more of a look but my theory is the moving startnut is the symptom: the stem / steerer interface is not proper: eg: too slick, micro discrepancy undersized. Pull up on stem via handlebars - stem moves (cause the steerer is, say, too small) ever so slightly and exerts pressure on the top cap - over a couple of thousand times the nut wiggles loose - evah so slightly. My whole movement has only been a few mms but it's continually happened since I got the bike. Loosen the stem bolts and give 1/ 4turn (not over torqued) on the top cap bolt and all is right again - until it isn't.

We'll see tho. As I said, this is odd.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> The stem has nothing to do with headset preload and does not have a fastener in any plane that would assist with maintaining bearing preload.


You set the preload with the cap bolt and hold it by tightening the stem.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

twodownzero said:


> Preload is the difference between "loose" and "properly adjusted." Preload is not, as your post suggests, the process of getting the headset ready for the stem to be tightened. The bearing preload, aka, the force that keeps the headset properly adjusted, is applied and held there by the headset bolt/star nut. If the star nut is "pulling out," it is not properly installed or tight enough in the steerer tube.


I like your post. This is will be an fun one to find out the real cause. I do think it is really, really interesting that 3 people have the same issue in one thread and one guy's magically went away with a new upper. It's a relatively obscure issue too - don't hear too much chatter about starnuts pulling loose. I'm not angling for a warranty or anything like that - just the mystery. I can't claim to be a perfect mechanic, so yeah, I could have made a mistake - everyone has - I do feel I went through pretty much the same and usual checks that your better than average bike shop would; I stopped short of getting out the calipers. I hope to eat crow and laugh at myself at some simple **** I missed.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

After you have snugged / preloaded the top cap and tightened the stem, have you ever removed the top cap to see how much space is under there, down to the steerer?

Are there any marks on the bottom of your top cap?

Have you tried a different stem? Is the metal between the pinch bolts bottoming out when the stem is tightened?


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Carl Mega said:


> Yeah, I hear ya. But I've been through all the obvious stuff. Headset is dandy. The stem is clamped just fine torque-wise. The cap is seats as it should - with a gap; I even upsized an under spacer just to check - same.
> 
> So I think you're missing the point. I need more of a look but my theory is the moving startnut is the symptom: the stem / steerer interface is not proper: eg: too slick, micro discrepancy undersized. Pull up on stem via handlebars - stem moves (cause the steerer is, say, too small) ever so slightly and exerts pressure on the top cap - over a couple of thousand times the nut wiggles loose - evah so slightly. My whole movement has only been a few mms but it's continually happened since I got the bike. Loosen the stem bolts and give 1/ 4turn (not over torqued) on the top cap bolt and all is right again - until it isn't.
> 
> We'll see tho. As I said, this is odd.


I would start examining the interface at this point. See if anything jumps out. Is the stem bore uniform? Can you measure the diameter of the steerer tube? I can measure mine if needed. Compare numbers.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

compengr said:


> I would start examining the interface at this point. See if anything jumps out. Is the stem bore uniform? Can you measure the diameter of the steerer tube? I can measure mine if needed. Compare numbers.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Ah - cool - thanks that'd be fun. Now that I'm curious, I'll take an ID/OD and re-check tomorrow. Appreciate it.

B4 anyone asks again - I tried with two different top caps and under stem'd an extra few MMs spacers to be absolutely sure there is no way the top cap could touch the top of the steerer - miles away.

Anyway - before I read of other ppl maybe having the same issue, I was leaning towards that perhaps I bungled the star nut install by maybe grabbing the wrong one off the work bench OR that I may have gotten heavy handed on the bolt when doing it on the trail - happened several times since tho and been very deliberate about treating that bolt nice


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

When we your forks made and where did you buy them from, curious?
I have one sitting on my kitchen table new in box. I can measure the steer tube as well.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Brrrrrr. Braved the cold garage and did my recon. Ha. Good timing as I'm due for a run thru on this bike - by my counts since I built it in Nov: 75 mountain bike rides plus 45 days commuting. Yippee.

Anyway - I think I'm ready to rule out the outer diameter as it was 28.7mm. The inner diameter is 25.45.

When I got at it - I remembered why I really chose to swap top caps (and add spacers) - the Spank Spike one has a lot of depth (I put on a shallower depth CaneCreek one):









Here you can see how much my starnut moved:









The HS was fine. The stem was properly torqued. The finish on the steerer seems pretty consistent with any other. So was this just me over torquing the topcap bolt when I was on the trail thinking I just had a loose HS? Maybe but I certainly didn't go nuts on a mad wrench turning rage and it's gone a bit loose since I've been delicate with it. [Edit: I should add - likely I am at fault here but with things that are perplexing, there's usually two factors that are not immediately apparent & related - eg: I suspect I had a crappy stem/top cap install at first but may be also true that this steerer isn't as secure w/ it's starnut grasp so what would normally be a tolerable amount of preload (but high) results in it moving some]

So at this point, I'm just going to:


Cut the steerer to my final length
Reset the star nut
Clean steerer & stem clamping surfaces
re-assemble keeping eye on torque, etc
Ride the hell out of it and report back

Cheers.

Edit: Got the fork from WorldWide Cyclerly - everything built up beginning of Nov. It's a Std Comp.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Carl Mega said:


> Brrrrrr. Braved the cold garage and did my recon. Ha. Good timing as I'm due for a run thru on this bike - by my counts since I built it in Nov: 75 mountain bike rides plus 45 days commuting. Yippee.
> 
> Anyway - I think I'm ready to rule out the outer diameter as it was 28.7mm. The inner diameter is 25.45.
> 
> ...


Very interesting stuff. Staying tuned for details.

I am running out of time before Crested Butte and planning to run my Fox 34 for the weekend. Fits a 4.6 Flowbeist on Marge Lite. Handing the Mastodon back over to LBS and hopefully they can figure something out. Maybe warranty the upper, who knows. Purchased from Worldwide also. Would be interesting to get calipers on steer tube inner/outer diameters. Disappointed but surely there is a reasonable solution.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Plenty of people have this problem because they misunderstand the purpose of the star nut.

The star nut could never contribute to headset retention because it simply isn't designed for that purpose;, ie it will pull out of the steerer when enough tension is applied.

Star nuts are only used for preload. Once you have established preload, the stem cinch bolts are tightened and thus preload is maintained.

If you're headset loosens, there are a few different causes:

1) the bearings/headset is installed incorrectly.
2) the preload was insufficient
3) the stem clamping force is inadequate

Things to rule out:

1) are the headset cups installed flush and square in the frame
2) are the bearings straight and setting properly in the cups
3) do you have enough spacer height above the steerer to preven the top cap from bottoming against the steerer
4) is your stem wore out, clamping surface overly polished, etc...

Once again, there is no way that a star nut can have anything to do with a headset loosening.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

This is below statment is untrue.

The purpose of a star nut is to establish preload. The stemp clamping force maintains preload.

Once the stem is clamped, you could remove the top cap and preload would be maintained.

If the stem loosens, the star nut will pull out because it is not sufficiently strong to retain the preload.

The key to a headset that loosens while riding is inadequte stem clamping force.



twodownzero said:


> Preload is the difference between "loose" and "properly adjusted." Preload is not, as your post suggests, the process of getting the headset ready for the stem to be tightened. The bearing preload, aka, the force that keeps the headset properly adjusted, is applied and held there by the headset bolt/star nut. If the star nut is "pulling out," it is not properly installed or tight enough in the steerer tube.
> 
> The stem has nothing to do with headset preload and does not have a fastener in any plane that would assist with maintaining bearing preload.
> 
> ...


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you're headset loosens, there are a few different causes:
> 
> 1) the bearings/headset is installed incorrectly.
> 2) the preload was insufficient
> ...


1 Check - perfect
2 Check 
3 Check - unless there's a defect in stem or steerer tolerances, 100% no doubt fine

&

1 again perfect
2 again perfect
3 as detailed, plenty of room
4 new stem bought when did the build but nothing obviously wrong - it could be a finicky fit here tho - steerer slightly slick, stem interface slick or out of spec or poor clamping force be it design or mfging



Nurse Ben said:


> Once again, there is no way that a star nut can have anything to do with a headset loosening.


I'll speak for myself here - but I don't think that's exactly what's being alleged by anyone. This is a clue, a symptom of something out of spec/tolerance. spit balling - steerers that are undersized, whose surface has crappy tolerances for clamping, out of round, wrong inner diameter, deforms excessively under load, material too soft or too hard for press fitting of a star nut... or maybe the stem(s) the culprit for roughly the same reasons or just enough of an issue when the two are paired together...Or just a coincidence and off day (2 months?) of wrenching.

Hubris is my blindspot here - I sort of cringe that I overlooked something in the assembly. I've set 100s of starnuts, no doubt built over 1000 bikes. Diagnosed a mountain's worth of headset issues working at shops. Never happened on one of mine before. Figured out I had an issue - made a point to ensure top-cap seated as it should and that the stem was torqued - yadda yadda yadda. Yet, with this bike it still happened again and again and lo and behold there are 3 other ppl too - as I said - interesting. I'd like to think that if it were a normal thing, I'd see it. Maybe not - I'm getting old and could be grasping.

Edit: Since I'm being all caffeinated & long winded, this "loose" headset is not like one where you can feel it rock back and forth or grab the HS bearing covers and feel it move. It's very, very subtle and it actually feels more like there's crappy bushing overlap/tolerance in the fork itself. If you are sensitive enough, you'll feel it on the trail when you unweight for rock gardens or put the front wheel down. It takes a deft hand to even feel it rocking the bike with the front brake applied - however, you can 100% tell when you make it go away by micro adjustment and riding again. It's right at the edge.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

compengr said:


> You set the preload with the cap bolt and hold it by tightening the stem.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


No. The stem might create some friction with the steerer, but it is the cap bolt that holds the preload, not the stem. Even if the stem is so loose as to be sloppy, a properly tightened cap bolt will hold the preload right where it's supposed to be.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> No. The stem might create some friction with the steerer, but it is the cap bolt that holds the preload, not the stem. Even if the stem is so loose as to be sloppy, a properly tightened cap bolt will hold the preload right where it's supposed to be.


Sorry, have to disagree. I'm 99.99% sure 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> This is below statment is untrue.
> 
> The purpose of a star nut is to establish preload. The stemp clamping force maintains preload.
> 
> ...


You are misinformed about the nature of the relationship between the stem and bearing preload. The stem does not maintain the bearing preload. You won't find any assembly where a fastener in another plane holds a bearing's preload.

I've got news for you--the nut on your front wheel bearing holds the bearing preload. Not the tire you bolt on afterward, not the cotter pin that prevents vibration loosening, and not the hub cap that prevents dirt from entering. It's the nut--the one you tighten to adjust the bearing preload--that holds the bearings in the correct place while they work.

I understand what you're trying to say and while you believe that, but you're still wrong. The cap bolt has plenty of strength to hold the assembly together. In fact, a properly installed star nut should either swell the steerer tube or break the bolt or both before it pulls the star nut out.

The clamping force of the fasteners certainly creates friction between the stem and the steerer, but even if the stem is loose, preload is maintained by the cap bolt.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

This may not be the exact situation, but I have had something similar happen. I have 2 Jamis XCT3 Carbon 26ers from 2011. It was my main ride at the time and is now my sons and the other now my gravel bike. On the one that saw more use I had a constant problem with the headset loosening up and racked my brains like the OP. I could put fingernail in-between the gap of the headset top bearing cover and the frame (IS headset) and I had no rubbing on the cap, but the loosening persisted. I read in a prior post on MTBR that although I thought there was enough gap between the bearing cap and the bearing/frame interface there was not. I bought FSA micro-spacers and 2 .25mm on just under the bearing cap. The problem has been gone for over 2 years with no other changes. If you exhaust all other resources, that may work. Here is a link to them:

FSA Headset Microspacers | Jenson USA


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

No dude, I am not misinformed, the star nut is a simple mechanism, it is not rocket science. Ask any trained professional bike mechanic and they will explain it to you.

https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-help/#article-section-7

"NOTE: The cap and bolt at the top of the stem do not secure the stem onto the steering column. The bolt or bolts on the side of the stem keep the stem from moving once the adjustment is made. The cap is used for bearing adjustment only."

Your wheel bearing comparison is fraught with misunderstanding as well, but no need to go into that too.

Feel free to disagree and good luck using a star nut to keep your headset tight.



twodownzero said:


> You are misinformed about the nature of the relationship between the stem and bearing preload. The stem does not maintain the bearing preload. You won't find any assembly where a fastener in another plane holds a bearing's preload.
> 
> I've got news for you--the nut on your front wheel bearing holds the bearing preload. Not the tire you bolt on afterward, not the cotter pin that prevents vibration loosening, and not the hub cap that prevents dirt from entering. It's the nut--the one you tighten to adjust the bearing preload--that holds the bearings in the correct place while they work.
> 
> ...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

twodownzero said:


> You are misinformed about the nature of the relationship between the stem and bearing preload. The stem does not maintain the bearing preload. You won't find any assembly where a fastener in another plane holds a bearing's preload.


I'm not an ME but Shimano Hollowtech cranks seem to fit the bill. Plastic preload nut, then the crank arm is clamped down (much the same way a stem is) to hold the arm's position on the spindle plane.

In both cases the preload force is applied in the correct plane, only the clamping mechanism that maintains the force (in the preload plane) is in a separate plane. Remove the step cap after clamping down the stem and the same preload force remains.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Thanks David, but all the engineers in the group already know the answer. I only have a couple years of engineering under my belt, but I know how things work.

Honestly, I'm kind of suprised that so much misinformation exists on such a simple mechanism. No wonder people have a hard time with tubeless.

On a bright note, it keeps the LBS in business 



david.p said:


> I'm not an ME but Shimano Hollowtech cranks seem to fit the bill. Plastic preload nut, then the crank arm is clamped down (much the same way a stem is) to hold the arm's position on the spindle plane.
> 
> In both cases the preload force is applied in the correct plane, only the clamping mechanism that maintains the force (in the preload plane) is in a separate plane. Remove the step cap after clamping down the stem and the same preload force remains.


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## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> On a bright note, it keeps the LBS in business


Best thing I've read here.

What's up Carl?


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

BIke N Gear said:


> Best thing I've read here.
> 
> What's up Carl?


Ben does get it right with that one.

I'm doing great Gary and so happy to hear from you; you've been in my thoughts more than a few times - shoot me a PM will ya?!


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

david.p said:


> I'm not an ME but Shimano Hollowtech cranks seem to fit the bill. Plastic preload nut, then the crank arm is clamped down (much the same way a stem is) to hold the arm's position on the spindle plane.
> 
> In both cases the preload force is applied in the correct plane, only the clamping mechanism that maintains the force (in the preload plane) is in a separate plane. Remove the step cap after clamping down the stem and the same preload force remains.


Those are splined. The bolt as clamp creates an interference fit by tightening the splined connection. It isn't the same.

Removing the spacers or cap after tightening the stem would result in only the friction between the smooth stem and steerer holding the assembly together.

The other way to think about it is what the star nut replaced. The star nut replaced the nut on a threaded steerer--a nut that unquestionably held the bearing preload just like a wheel bearing nut does.

Your quote from Park is no more instructive. What it says is that the headset spacers and cap bolt do not hold the stem in place. I never argued that was the case, and in fact, that is also wrong for the same reason that the cap bolt does hold the bearing preloaded. The stem bolts create clamping force in a horizontal plane. That clamping force holds the stem in position _laterally_. The stack of spacers and cap bolt hold the bearings in their races _vertically_.

The stem could be entirely missing from the bike and replaced with a stack of headset spacers and headset preload could still be proper. There would be no handlebar to turn the fork and the bike would be basically useless in that condition, but headset preload would be correct.

As I said earlier, it seems you've created a complex explanation regarding how preload is maintained that is simply not correct. Bearing preload comes from the cap bolt. The friction between the stem and the steerer keeps the front wheel and handlebar perpendicular to each other (aka, alignment). While in theory that same friction assists in preventing the steerer from moving in the vertical plane, that is not how preload is maintained.

If you don't believe me, there is a simple way to experiment with this. Properly tighten the headset cap with the stem loose. Then align and tighten the stem. Once that is completed, remove the headset cap and go for a ride. It won't take long before your headset will be loose. Without the cap bolt and spacer stack to maintain the bearing preload, the stem/steerer interface will slip vertically and you will have headset slop. There just isn't enough clamping force from the stem to maintain the vertical preloading of the bearings with only the friction between stem and the steerer. If your theory were correct, the stem could maintain headset bearing preload indefinitely even without the headset cap. In reality, one good bounce and the steerer will slip enough to create bearing slop.

My wheel bearing nut analogy is absolutely no different. In the days of threaded steerers, the nut held the bearing preload just like a wheel bearing nut does. Nothing changed with the introduction of a star nut other than that threadless steerers became possible.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Why don't we help out with the headset loosening issue first. Once we get that out of the way, we can go back to arguing why the stem is what (and it does) holds the preload in place. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Luckily the Turbine stem had cutouts which made it easy to measure the steerer diameter (28.70mm). Mine is a Mastodon Pro Std, also purchased from Worldwide a little over a month ago. Cane Creek 40 headset (IS) in a Salsa Mukluk. I'm using a compression nut in place of a star nut.









Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Wait a minute. One poster stringing along multiple posters by arguing against established and empirically proven facts in long drawn out posts based on nonsensical logic... Troll of the year? Gah.

Back on topic - I experienced some headset loosening within the first few rides with my Mastodon. I believe that adding a larger spacer on top of the stem took care of it, but I may go back and check for the minute play Carl mentioned.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I'm hoping for a brilliant troll but have some doubts. Either way its very entertaining.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

twodownzero said:


> No. The stem might create some friction with the steerer, but it is the cap bolt that holds the preload, not the stem. Even if the stem is so loose as to be sloppy, a properly tightened cap bolt will hold the preload right where it's supposed to be.


OK, you go ride with a loose stem, see how long your top cap keeps everything together lol.

I have ridden without a top cap before, and with missing spacers above the stem (after the preload was set correctly). The stem holds everything together.

Sorry but you are wrong or not understanding...


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

twodownzero isn't wrong. I got a RS1 from a guy who parted his Camber and it came with a SWAT plug thingee. I didn't want to pay the $30 or so to get the cap and tool, so thought to borrow a cap and bolt from another Spec bike (to tighten mine, and return the bolt and cap). Went for a ride and headset came loose mid-ride. Didn't want to pay for a new headset either, so I aborted the ride. Stem slipped vertically, but was still aligned with the front wheel.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Since we can't seem to stop beating this dead horse, I wonder how the seatpost stays in place. It's clamped much the same way as a steerer tube. Is it magic? 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Seeing as reality appears to be skewed on this thread, I vote for magic.



compengr said:


> Since we can't seem to stop beating this dead horse, I wonder how the seatpost stays in place. It's clamped much the same way as a steerer tube. Is it magic?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Yep magic trolls darnit.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

compengr said:


> Since we can't seem to stop beating this dead horse, I wonder how the seatpost stays in place. It's clamped much the same way as a steerer tube. Is it magic?
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


What part of your seat tube involves properly preloading _bearings in the vertical plane_? Does your seat tube magically spin about the seat post on these bearings, and does their adjustment somehow change your enjoyment of the bike? Or is it trolling to point out that there are no bearings or races involved in that assembly?

The experiment to confirm my theory is simple:

1. The poster complaining that his headset is coming loose can install a taller spacer and observe that once the assembly is put together correctly (which I certainly agree involves loosening the stem, tightening headset cap, aligning stem/bars, and torquing stem), the headset stops coming loose.

and

2. Those of you who doubt me can remove or loosen your headset cap and go for a ride and wait for your headset to come loose. It shouldn't take more than a turn or two to observe this. I can't predict how long it'll take the stem to slip on the smooth steerer, but I would bet that it will.

While you all are doing that, I'll continue to try to think of a set of bearings loaded similarly to a headset that do not use a fastener or some kind of interference fit in the same plane as preload is required. None come to mind at the moment.

Note also that I'm not denying that the friction fit between the stem and steerer provides some resistance from the steerer tube slipping downward and thus the preload loosening, just that it's insufficient to accomplish the task in the absence of the cap bolt. The headset cap bolt is capable of doing so because so long as the star nut is properly installed, the stretching of the cap bolt physically holds the dimension between the headset cap and the fork within the range of dimensions that we regard as "proper" preload, and it can do so with or without a stem installed.

In my experience, I've never observed a star nut that moved upward in the tube after being properly installed. The ones I've worked with were capable of putting far more preload than necessary on the headset bearings. In fact, I'm quite confident I could go out to my garage right now and either break those bolts or damage the headset bearings/races or both by overtightening them--they have that much power over the headset bearing preload. I could probably accomplish that same damage without loosening the stem as well, but I guess it'd depend on how strong the bolt is in tension, how good a "bite" the star nut actually has, and how much friction a properly torqued stem creates--all facts that I admittedly don't have at my fingertips. I bet I could tighten it enough to make it difficult to turn the handlebar even without breaking anything, which is itself a demonstration of my point. The stem alone simply cannot hold the whole assembly tight indefinitely.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Carl Mega said:


> 1 Check - perfect
> 2 Check
> 3 Check - unless there's a defect in stem or steerer tolerances, 100% no doubt fine
> 
> ...


That description would fit my Bluto well- I couldn't articulate it but your description is exactly what I would say my Bluto does- hence the reason I want to get a Mastodon


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

So I contacted Manitou in regards to the silver stanchioned Mastodon. They confirmed it was their product and it was an OE product, not aftermarket. I’m assuming that they were made for a particular fatbike company, but as far as I can tell they are the same fork so I think I will take a punt on them


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## forward (Apr 7, 2016)

The problem can be in the steerer tube of the mastodon.

If the fork is ridden with top cap and preload bolt removed after proper headset/stem setup, the starnut will not move upward, because there is no leverage of the top cap bolt to bring it up.

If the starnut is moving upward, so is stem too. So stem is slipping in steerer tube.

Outside diameter of the steerer tube is too small or/and stem clamping diameter is too large or/and steerer tube inner diameter is too large.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> What part of your seat tube involves properly preloading _bearings in the vertical plane_? Does your seat tube magically spin about the seat post on these bearings, and does their adjustment somehow change your enjoyment of the bike? Or is it trolling to point out that there are no bearings or races involved in that assembly?


If you can't see the similarity between how the seatpost and steerer tube are held in place...then I'm not sure I can help you. (Hint: they are both clamped horizontally but see vertical forces)

Also, look at the construction of the top cap/star nut assembly. Now, look at the surface area of the stem-steerer tube interface. Which one do you think was designed to carry loads? Which one will have a higher loading capacity?

Let's look at the expanding wedge nut design, like Hope Head Doctor. It works on the same principle as the stem; clamping onto the steerer tube from the inside to set the bearing preload. What do you think will be able to stand up to greater loads, the stem, which clamps onto a larger diameter and has a significantly greater surface area on the steerer tube, or the wedge on the Hope device?

Oh, while looking at the OneUp EDC tool, I saw this video 



. Go to 2:50.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

forward said:


> The problem can be in the steerer tube of the mastodon.
> 
> If the fork is ridden with top cap and preload bolt removed after proper headset/stem setup, the starnut will not move upward, because there is no leverage of the top cap bolt to bring it up.
> 
> ...


^This is my guess too. Planning to put some calipers on the steerer tube inner/outer diameters, and also swap in a different stem to see if that helps. May be possible that certain steerer tubes were out of spec, that would explain why replacing the upper has solved certain instances of the problem. What a pain.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

forward said:


> The problem can be in the steerer tube of the mastodon.
> 
> If the fork is ridden with top cap and preload bolt removed after proper headset/stem setup, the starnut will not move upward, because there is no leverage of the top cap bolt to bring it up.
> 
> ...


If you're right and the stem is the right size, then the stem is potentially not tight enough. Generally I use a torque wrench for this because I'm anal.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Without digging through the whole thread, does anyone have calipered/measured width of the Mastodon at the crown/top of the legs?

Curious if I can pull off a Mastodon on my fatty, if I decide to move to wider than my Magnum Pro will handle.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

nitrousjunky said:


> Without digging through the whole thread, does anyone have calipered/measured width of the Mastodon at the crown/top of the legs?
> 
> Curious if I can pull off a Mastodon on my fatty, if I decide to move to wider than my Magnum Pro will handle.


The compression adjustment knob seems to be biggest issue.









I measured about 114mm from center of fork to the edge of the dial (pic didn't turn out) and 14mm from top of crown. 









Hope that helps.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

compengr said:


> I measured about 114mm from center of fork to the edge of the dial (pic didn't turn out) and 14mm from top of crown.
> Hope that helps.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


That definitely helps, much appreciated!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

compengr said:


> Luckily the Turbine stem had cutouts which made it easy to measure the steerer diameter (28.70mm). Mine is a Mastodon Pro Std, also purchased from Worldwide a little over a month ago. Cane Creek 40 headset (IS) in a Salsa Mukluk. I'm using a compression nut in place of a star nut.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Adding info here from mine (brand new not installed) also from worldwide cyclery, std pro.

Outside steer 28.4mm
Inside steer 25.25mm


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

unsubscribed


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> unsubscribed


Ha - if AKRider knew it'd only take posting some measurements, he'd have measured every part of his bike and probably a few extra for good measure in the "Tubeless overrated" thread.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I have a little info to add to the whole steer tube issue. 
What you don’t see in that EDC cap video is they have a go/no go gauge that is supplied with the cap and installation kit. If the no go end drops into the steer tube, you can NOT install the EDC cap on the fork. Simply because the inner diameter of the steer tube is too large and there isn’t enough material to get full threads. 
I purchased a EDC cap kit for my 2017 Magnum Pro 27.5+ fork, however the inner diameter was too large (no go end went in the steer tube). Therefore I returned the EDC cap.


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## Co-opski (Oct 24, 2013)

Will a King Cage top cap work with the Mastodon? What if I use the Wolftooth B-Rad with it? Will my headset come loose? Asking for a friend.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Co-opski said:


> Will a King Cage top cap work with the Mastodon? What if I use the Wolftooth B-Rad with it?


Heh - Mastodon level thirst!

3 mtn rides & 3 commutes in; things are peachy so far for those who care. Starnut not replaced just reset lower as I cut off some excess steerer off. Cleaned all surfaces with alcohol. Otherwise, everything was installed the same as before: hs, steerer bolt & stem bolts at the same and proper torque/adjustment.

Btw - I'm pretty happy to stand on the shoulders of all those early adopter Fat bikers who dealt w/ lesser forks cause their experiences led to the Mastodon which is a pretty solid product.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Just ordered a Pro 120 standard for my Canyon Dude. Currently running JJ 4.0s but like that I would have space for 4.8s in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I just pulled my fork off my fatboy. 
It's up for sale $600 or $800 with wheel (hope hub,spec rim)


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

nitrousjunky said:


> I purchased a EDC cap kit for my 2017 Magnum Pro 27.5+ fork, however the inner diameter was too large (no go end went in the steer tube).


And it's the same with the Mastodon. I don't have my measurement on hand but it was quite a bit larger than the maximum 24.80 mm specified for the EDC cap.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

bikemad1 said:


> ive seen the "extended "version also advertised as 27.5,as opposed to 26-is this the case or have I misinterpreted it?Also anyone think the silver stanchioned versions of the mastodon would be a lesser preformer than the black stanchions? My bluto is black stanchioned and has stiction like a fat kid on a slippery dip.They are on sale here in Australia for 650 ($520) US free postage and are advertised as 27.5 or 26,hence my previous question.Thoughts please folks,cheers


Correct:

26" = STD
27.5" = EXT

I took the risk and ordered a Pro 26" STD version with the silver/gold-ish stanchions and it arrived this and is indeed not black. I just pulled it apart and moved the travel from 120 to 140mm and it looks identical to my black stanchtioned Pro.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Surly Ice Cream Truck owners, what length are you running?


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

Duplicate


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

compengr said:


> The compression adjustment knob seems to be biggest issue.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I have that same Mukluk, does the knob clear or not? It's hard to tell from the photo. What size is the frame? Just out of curiosity which version did you get? It seems like only the 100 MM standard will fit Salsa's specs.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

akt42 said:


> I have that same Mukluk, does the knob clear or not? It's hard to tell from the photo. What size is the frame? Just out of curiosity which version did you get. It seems like only the 100 MM standard will fit Salsa's specs.


Using a Cane Creek 40 series headset (regular crown race), it clears with about 2mm to spare. Medium frame. I got the 120mm standard Mastodon.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

compengr said:


> Using a Cane Creek 40 series headset (regular crown race), it clears with about 2mm to spare. Medium frame. I got the 120mm standard Mastodon.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


Awesome, thanks for the quick reply. I'm on a large with Cane Creek 110 so I can't see any reason it wouldn't clear. Now to decide on 29+ or 27.5+ for summer. I am looking at the 100mm standard to keep the geometry in tact but it's not rated for 5" tires (which I run) or 29+, gonna have to take Dougal's advice in this thread on how to get more clearance/less travel. Thanks again.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

akt42 said:


> Awesome, thanks for the quick reply. I'm on a large with Cane Creek 110 so I can't see any reason it wouldn't clear. Now to decide on 29+ or 27.5+ for summer. I am looking at the 100mm standard to keep the geometry in tact but it's not rated for 5" tires (which I run) or 29+, gonna have to take Dougal's advice in this thread on how to get more clearance/less travel. Thanks again.


Which 5" tire are you running?

I have a 120mm STD with a Bud and it used to rub, just a bit, at full compression with the IVA set from the factory. I adjusted the IVA based on KTMNealio's suggestion and it's been good enough for me ever since. As in, almost never rubs and when it does the rub is so slight that I'm ok with it. In fact, I only moved two IVA spacers not all three and it's been great. Yes, I can still bottom it but only on really big stuff and not hard enough to worry my.

I'm not suggesting you take the risk like I have chosen to with a Bud but if you have a slightly smaller tire like the FBF 4.8 then I don't think it'll actually rub.

You could use the 120mm fork and limit the travel to 10mm either with internal spacers or with the air pressure trick. Then at least you have the option for more if you decide to go that way.


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

Troy Carter said:


> Which 5" tire are you running?
> 
> I have a 120mm STD with a Bud and it used to rub, just a bit, at full compression with the IVA set from the factory. I adjusted the IVA based on KTMNealio's suggestion and it's been good enough for me ever since. As in, almost never rubs and when it does the rub is so slight that I'm ok with it. In fact, I only moved two IVA spacers not all three and it's been great. Yes, I can still bottom it but only on really big stuff and not hard enough to worry my.
> 
> ...


I am running Dillinger 5's for Winter and was thinking Jumbo Jim 4.8 for Summer which has the same Diameter as the Bud according to this chart. https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/46-35406-SERVICE-NOTE-MASTODON-TIRE-SIZE.pdf

I am running 100mm Whiskey carbon rims and don't want to use a skinnier tire and expose the rim to strikes but I also can't risk the tire not fitting. I ride in Western Colorado and Utah where a crash in certain areas can be life threatening. I haven't seen KTMNEalio's suggestion so I'm not exactly sure of the method. Did you move the tokens below the bottom out bumper? If so, does it affect the ramp up or change the characteristic of the fork beyond limiting the travel?
I am sticking with the 100mm as I don't want to change the A to C compared to the factory fork. I also don't want to change the bikes intended geometry nor the ride characteristics that I am accustomed to.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

I just bit the Bullet and did the same,but got the ext comp version.How much fuss was pulling it apart to extend the travel to 140,as this is what I also intend to do>Cant get over what a massive fork it is!!


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

bikemad1 said:


> I just bit the Bullet and did the same,but got the ext comp version.How much fuss was pulling it apart to extend the travel to 140,as this is what I also intend to do>Cant get over what a massive fork it is!!
> View attachment 1180829


Not much fuss at all with the tools and supplies on hand. I followed the manual and was done in 30 minutes or so the first time and would expect to be able to go much faster.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

PCT said:


> Headset keeps coming loose on every ride. LBS cannot diagnose.
> 
> Manitou Mastodon Std Pro 120mm installed on Kona Wozo with Chris King headset. Previous fork installed was Fox 34 140 27.5 Plus Boost which worked great with this bike/headset and did not loosen.
> 
> ...


Ignoring all of the craziness that followed your post...

Have you figured this out yet?

I ask because my fork is having the same issue. It came loose twice before your post which I thought was very odd but assumed I didn't get something right during install. 
I pulled off my stem cleaned things up and took a look but couldn't find anything wrong after the second occurrence. So, I swapped to a different stem, just to be sure, and gave it a couple more rides. And, it still comes loose.

I happen to have a brand new Mastodon here as well so I started to look at the two of them and noticed that the steer tube is seated at a different position in the crown on the new fork compared to the month old used fork. The new fork steer tube looks to be nearly perfectly flush with the bottom of the crown. The used fork steerer is roughly .5mm into the crown.

Maybe this is a production variance? Or maybe it's moving and causing the headset to come loose when it shifts?

I'm going to tighten things back up and take a proper measurement of the amount the steer tube is set into the crown before I ride any more. When or if it loosens again I'll recheck that measurement to see if there is any movement between the steerer and crown.

I'd kind of expect that if this were the issue then it may also rotate and I may see the fork/wheel off center some at times. I have not seen this rotation and I cannot guarantee I'm on the right track with this theory but I'm a bit confused as to what is going on and this seems like it may be an area of concern.

Used fork.









New fork.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

I’m getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these, but with all the problems with loose headsets, I’m having second thoughts!

What are all you Farley owners using, I have a 9.6 medium frame, from my research it looks like the 120 pro standard will work, I plan on running the 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarwhal’s with studs in the winter months , and the Barb’s once things warm up. Looks like I’ll need to add one 10mm bottom out spacer for tire clearance, and maybe a 3mm crown race spacer under the headset for knob clearance.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

FYI, salsa has a comment on their website regarding the knob clearance, sounds like it is possible to swap compression knobs with one from the circus fork, must be slightly smaller?


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Nope, haven't figured it out. Gave it to the LBS and they have been sitting on it for (another) week. I will ask if they still have it and can see if the steer tube is slightly inset to the crown as in your photos. Hoping to get at least a replacement upper if not an entire new fork. At this rate, winter will be done before I get a fully functional Mastodon!

I have several other fat fork options to play with in the meantime: Fox 34, Supermax, and rigid carbon.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

This is must definitely the era of misinformation.

There is nothing wrong with any of these forks that would not be resolved with correct installation. Sorry to be so blunt, but not all home mechanics get it right.

At install, make sure you allow enough space between the cut end of the steerer and the top of the spacer stack. If in doubt, give yourself a little more space. For best installation, don't use the stem above the top of the spacer stack.

Great fork, had four so far, still riding three, no complaints, no issues, loving the Mastodon; the fork SRAM wishes they'd built.



tmbrown said:


> I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these, but with all the problems with loose headsets, I'm having second thoughts!
> 
> What are all you Farley owners using, I have a 9.6 medium frame, from my research it looks like the 120 pro standard will work, I plan on running the 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarwhal's with studs in the winter months , and the Barb's once things warm up. Looks like I'll need to add one 10mm bottom out spacer for tire clearance, and maybe a 3mm crown race spacer under the headset for knob clearance.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, if the steerer was loose in the crown, the headset would remain tight and the fork and wheel would move. I experienced this with a Wren. It’s exceedingly rare and it’s not happening with you fork.

You need a proper install on your fork.

“I'd kind of expect that if this were the issue then it may also rotate and I may see the fork/wheel off center some at times. I have not seen this rotation and I cannot guarantee I'm on the right track with this theory ... ”


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Nurse Ben said:


> At install, make sure you allow enough space between the cut end of the steerer and the top of the spacer stack. If in doubt, give yourself a little more space. For best installation, don't use the stem above the top of the spacer stack.


This seemed to be the key to keeping the headset from loosening up for me. During the initial install I thought I had enough space above the end of the steerer but headset was loosening due to not being able to reach proper pre-load and eliminate play at the headset. Added a thicker spacer above the stem, and ensured the stem was properly torqued and haven't had problems since (a couple of months and 100+ miles later).


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, if the steerer was loose in the crown, the headset would remain tight and the fork and wheel would move.


This is not true. If the steerer is loose and moves so that the bottom of the steerer is more recessed into the crown then the distance from the top of the crown where the lower headset bearing races sits and the top of the steer tube would grow in length. I would expect it to rotate if loose as you experienced but I learn new ways that things can go wrong all the time so I'm looking at this as a possibility.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

very basic bike mechanic 101. the star nut has nothing to do with headset once its been properly installed. your stem is the part that should keep everything tight. once your stem is tight, you can ride without a top cap and starnut. star nut is just to preload your headset/headset bearings. if your star nut keep coming loose. your stem is not tight which is super unlikely because the handlebar would turn. or another possibility is the crown race is too short/ barely does not have enough stack for it to clear the top flat part of your fork crown and bottom of the headtube. 

ive owned and rode 2 mastodons. there is nothing wrong with these forks.


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## jonm1211 (Aug 29, 2017)

No problems with mine either. Why is this so difficult?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

People are quick to blame the product, sign of the times I suppose.

Troy, dude, if the steerer was pulling out of the crown it would also rotate. They cold press the steerer into the crown, sometimes adding adhesive, but they are not keyed. 

Pullout would by very unusual; a sign of which is your crown race would also be loose, so no, your steerer is not loose.

I recommend getting your fork back and having a different shop do the install, then you’d be able to ride your fork this season.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Troy Carter said:


> This is not true. If the steerer is loose and moves so that the bottom of the steerer is more recessed into the crown then the distance from the top of the crown where the lower headset bearing races sits and the top of the steer tube would grow in length. I would expect it to rotate if loose as you experienced but I learn new ways that things can go wrong all the time so I'm looking at this as a possibility.


Steerer tubes are flanged. They can't pull up.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

So maiden ride today, definitely alot heavier than the bluto it replaced, quite noticeably so.played around with the rebound it was set all the way to non.10 km into the ride it started feeling like it had terrible stiction.then I noticed it has the same issue as my Bluto, a few mm play with the fork uppers and lowers. I'm hoping this all improves after abit of time riding the thing, as I'll be well pissed if I've gone got a new fork that has the same issue as the ( not so)old bluto.


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## walloftvs (Jan 5, 2015)

The guys who are getting loose headsets probably didn't get the crown race fully set. Anyways, I'm digging my fork.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

That is what mine feels like, as if the headset is loose. But so did my Bluto, and we worked out it was the stanchions moving subtly in the fork legs, like just a few mom's, but enough to be very irritating.Im hoping a bit of slick honey on the stanchions and setting it up for my weight ( rode it straight out of the shop, no adjustments).I'm also keen to extend it to the 140mm travel, will see if any of these things make it preform better.at the moment it feels like one of those low end piece of **** fork you would find on a department store bike!!😠


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

*wobbly fork*

My headset seems to have come very loose as well after a 20 km very rocky rooty maiden voyage.It rode fine for the first half hour or so,then started feeling very "clunky" ! I had my fork installed by a bike shop as im a hack of a mechanic and didnt want any dramas.I will take it back today,hopefully they can rectify it.If it is a warranty issue,is it hard to get a replacement seeing as ive had the steerer tube cut down to suite me?Also last night i took out the IVA(thats what the manual calls it) and removed two of the black rings.Now im assuming they stay out,they dont clip back onto the unit somewhere else?Clearly from my post im as handy as a baboon on crack when it comes to bike maintanence!


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Advice welcome*

I'm loosing a bit of my stoke for the Mastodon as of recent. Two issues: Getting excessive sag in the fork on colder days (20 degrees and less) and developing a bit of play in the stanchions.

Background deets: I have had this STD Comp for about 3 months. I converted it to the 120-140mm travel set-up shortly after purchase. All four spacers set on the IVA, no adjustment to the Damper side. On a Kona Wozo currently running stock 26 x 4.8 front tire on 80mm rim, currently set at 120mm travel. I weigh aprox 175lbs in winter gear and have had to run about 95psi to have it set at appropriate preload, with 3 clicks on the compression dial to not run through travel too quick.

Questions:
1. I notice this distinct wallowing into its travel as the temps drop and it just sits around 40mm into its travel and even lower if I am on a sustained downhill. This creates a really terrible geometry for descending with a low/steep front end. 
Should I be moving some spacers around on the damper side to help with ride height to eliminate the wallowing?

2. Play in stanchions. I just noticed this on the last ride. There is a small degree of forward/rearward play in the stanchions that is not coming from the headset or a loose hub. 
Do I need to overhaul and replace seals already (after just 3 months)?

I have liked the fork upto recently compared to the Bluto, but I never had these recent traits in a 1 1/2 half of the Bluto.

Any thoughts are appreciated.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

So took the bike back to the shop,mechanic retightened the headset,said dont worry,new bottom cup in headset and they often come abit loose if you thrash it.Rode today,a very nice and not overly rough trail for about 20kms.The fork behaved better with the extra travel,felt pretty good although i had a bit less air pressure in it than i would have liked.But,once again by the end of the ride there is play in the headset!!??Also this mastodon comes with a remote to lock out the fork,that after much adjusting the mechanic couldnt make it work,and there is no option to lock it manually which kind of sucks.Rode it wide open obviously,ok for the trail i rode but the option to lock it out on climbs would be nice,considering the fork comes equipped this way.That been said,i can lock out my other forks manually without needing a lever,would have prefered if this was like that as well.Looks like a phone call to the dealer to see what my options are.Pretty bummed though,was frothing to get this fork,now i have it and it doesnt work as it should,not very impressed


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## ahelmus (Jun 2, 2006)

_


bikemad1 said:



So took the bike back to the shop,mechanic retightened the headset,said dont worry,new bottom cup in headset and they often come abit loose if you thrash it.Rode today,a very nice and not overly rough trail for about 20kms.The fork behaved better with the extra travel,felt pretty good although i had a bit less air pressure in it than i would have liked.But,once again by the end of the ride there is play in the headset!!??Also this mastodon comes with a remote to lock out the fork,that after much adjusting the mechanic couldnt make it work,and there is no option to lock it manually which kind of sucks.Rode it wide open obviously,ok for the trail i rode but the option to lock it out on climbs would be nice,considering the fork comes equipped this way.That been said,i can lock out my other forks manually without needing a lever,would have prefered if this was like that as well.Looks like a phone call to the dealer to see what my options are.Pretty bummed though,was frothing to get this fork,now i have it and it doesnt work as it should,not very impressed

Click to expand...

_Sounds like you may want to try a new mechanic. Bottom cup should not come loose just because you ride your bike, and the remote is very easy to set up...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

rvercoe said:


> I'm loosing a bit of my stoke for the Mastodon as of recent. Two issues: Getting excessive sag in the fork on colder days (20 degrees and less) and developing a bit of play in the stanchions.


As temps drop so does the air pressure in the fork. Double check air pressure at riding temperature, in any case if if fork is sagging too much add air. Make sure that before you disconnect the pump you extend the fork fully so that you don't lose travel inadvertently.

If you want to make the fork more progressive in it's spring rate - that is the sag is set correctly but you are using travel too easily - then changing the spacer config on the IVA can help there.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

bikemad1 said:


> I took out the IVA(thats what the manual calls it) and removed two of the black rings.Now im assuming they stay out,they dont clip back onto the unit somewhere else?


Did you actually remove spacers from the IVA? The IVA controls the spring rate and the travel adjust guide details how to rearrange them to do so (pg10) - at no point does it say to remove spacers from the IVA.

Spacers are removed from the top of the air shaft to increase travel, but that is not the IVA.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

david.p said:


> Did you actually remove spacers from the IVA? The IVA controls the spring rate and the travel adjust guide details how to rearrange them to do so (pg10) - at no point does it say to remove spacers from the IVA.
> 
> Spacers are removed from the top of the air shaft to increase travel, but that is not the IVA.


On page 10: "If the travel is adjusted, the IVA piston height should also be adjusted to maintain the air spring rate."

Anyway, I replaced the IVA with the IRT.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It could just as easilly by the wheel moving on the axle or the brake caliper flexing. No amount of grease is going take up slack that is inherent in a suspension fork.

If you're riding the bike vs flexing it on the floor, you are far less likely to notice flex, just saying 

Honestly, all this headset loosening BS is amazing, it's like the amateur hour on the fat bike forum. If you posted this shite to the regular mtbr forums you'd be laughed off the site.

Seriously, if you can't set a fork up on your own, then take it to a shop. If a shop can't set up your fork, then find a shop with "competent" mechanics.



bikemad1 said:


> That is what mine feels like, as if the headset is loose. But so did my Bluto, and we worked out it was the stanchions moving subtly in the fork legs, like just a few mom's, but enough to be very irritating.Im hoping a bit of slick honey on the stanchions and setting it up for my weight ( rode it straight out of the shop, no adjustments).I'm also keen to extend it to the 140mm travel, will see if any of these things make it preform better.at the moment it feels like one of those low end piece of **** fork you would find on a department store bike!!?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Seriously, right? Talk about a lack of mechanical understanding.

"dude, I was roosting this berm and my lower cup got loose, like whoa!

Apparently good bike mechanics are hard to find.



ahelmus said:


> Sounds like you may want to try a new mechanic. Bottom cup should not come loose just because you ride your bike, and the remote is very easy to set up...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

HDTVdevil said:


> On page 10: "If the travel is adjusted, the IVA piston height should also be adjusted to maintain the air spring rate."


Exactly, by using the table on that page to match the IVA spacer config with the current fork length. Notice all the configurations use the same number of spacers (four) just in different positions - none are removed.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Honestly, all this headset loosening BS is amazing, it's like the amateur hour on the fat bike forum. If you posted this shite to the regular mtbr forums you'd be laughed off the site.


By all means, that's what we should be aspiring to... if people share some experiences and seek insight they should be met with ridicule and exclusion. Great take - inspires contribution and dialog.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Except, dear Carl, this topic and all the misunderstandings have been gone over, and explained, ad nauseum, by those who are willing and able to provide said experience.

We have since jumped the shark, this discussion has spread misinformation, and now has the propensity to lead potential Mastodon seekers to look elsewhere.

I know what you're saying, perhaps it made more sense a couple weeks ago, now it's simply not relevant.



Carl Mega said:


> By all means, that's what we should be aspiring to... if people share some experiences and seek insight they should be met with ridicule and exclusion. Great take - inspires contribution and dialog.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Yes,not all of us are expert bike mechanics or able to insert a catheter.If i were to put many of you in a kitchen on a friday night with 600 covers to pump out in a few hours,most would be well and truly ****ed,though I imagine you can probably manage a bbq for a few friends.....


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Once I finally get a ride on mine (rebuilding a wheel with new hub) I'll see if it loosens or not.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Except, dear Carl, this topic and all the misunderstandings have been gone over, and explained, ad nauseum, by those who are willing and able to provide said experience.
> 
> We have since jumped the shark, this discussion has spread misinformation, and now has the propensity to lead potential Mastodon seekers to look elsewhere.
> 
> I know what you're saying, perhaps it made more sense a couple weeks ago, now it's simply not relevant.


I agree w/ the Mastodon perhaps being wrongly maligned. I really read most of the thread as people broadcasting looking for a pattern/solution after they went through the standard troubleshooting (and tolerate advice that actually was relayed ad nauseum). I, personally welcome discussion and I don't think it's healthy or proper to talk down to people seeking help.

But here's the problem... Everyone has been wrong. Not bad advice mind you but I've heard what? - 4-5 different things that have been declared as definitively the problem... 'cept none of those are the actual root cause. And consider the hubris - No one else has actually held my fork, examined my work - yet they know. In fact, some of the expert takes (which, ironically, are from actual amateurs (hour - lol) disregarding 2 shops and someone who has at least enough ability to be employed in a few different industry roles) diagnosis the top cap not seating and the crownrace not being set right - are at semi-odds; neither has been my situation btw.

So a one-dimensional thinker sees the pulling star nut and goes - "blah, star nut has nothing to do with the HS going loose."

A curious mind sees a pattern of people who were fine prior to this install and now have same symptom - and asks "why is that?" (notice not jumping to conclusion that there is an inherent defect)

Coming back to the shops - a few insights: it's winter. The summer "help" has left and typically the people in the shop are the lifers and most stable help - not the ones who routinely mess up simple things. 2 - when a problem comes into a shop (like the OP) there's always a curious huddle trying to diagnose looking for the "told you so" (sort of like here) 3 - while I don't condone this, it is not hard to imagine a shop - without a clear explanation but seemingly resolved - resorting to telling a customer something that isn't exactly accurate just to give some peace of mind. Maybe they suck, who knows?, but if I was going to blindly rely on someone it'd probably be a mechanic who sees probably a dozen+ different bikes a day vs. some random ppl on the interwebz. Obviously quality of ppl varies a lot.

Ok, if you managed through the above rant - some comments regarding the fork and troubleshooting. First, the routine advice that people gave is good. Re-check your install and assembly. The very first thing to do. Look for areas that could cause issue. If persists, give to someone else for an objective take. If persists, begin to look at compound factors and re-check some assumptions. What assumptions? Well, things that you would ordinarily take for granted. I'll break out just two: that the new equipment is in spec & this application is similar to others you know well. I personally feel that the Mastodon is in spec - the ID/OD conform to normal expectations so unless the steerers were not fully pressed - the fork mfging doesn't seem to be the cause. So - what else? Could there be a compound cause? I think perhaps:

So, one of the things that you hear people mention is that the fork lowers feel a bit loose with one. If you bounce your fork or loft it - it will not feel like your enduro fork - more of a sensation of play/movement in the lowers. There's conservatively an extra kilo of weight in the front wheel after all and frankly the 34mm chassis isn't exactly designed with a proportional amount of extra material than said enduro fork; I can't speak to what the bushing overlap and tolerance is in this fork yet. I can say this is more pronounced than anything modern that I felt in recent time - plus a whole lot of undamped tire air adding to the rate of return on the up. Anyway - not super hard to imagine a user feeling this, then assuming HS is loose and cranking some - maybe too much. Add in a bit of a crappy spec star nut (set) or maybe some packing oil on the steerer where the HS actually does get loose too and things get murky and hard to diagnose. That's my stance at this point - subject to change w/ more info - if you feel HS loose - check assembly, clean the **** out of your steerer/stem, pay extra attention to stem clamping, resist the urge to tighten top cap bolt unless you know definitively the HS has gone loose - it may just be how all that extra weight of the tire feels vibrating around in this chassis.

Sorry it's a long take. I like mysteries, patterns and troubleshooting; some apparently don't and I can understand the resistance to over examination and edge case stuff given today's political climate and over reliance to convenient conspiracy type theories; hope that wasn't the tone here.


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

Carl Mega said:


> By all means, that's what we should be aspiring to... if people share some experiences and seek insight they should be met with ridicule and exclusion. Great take - inspires contribution and dialog.


Thanks Carl Mega, It seems NB needs/gets his tone checked more and more these days. Maybe he just needs to get out and ride more instead of threadstalking, ha. I agree that it can be a bummer for others on any of the number of threads he "contributes" to. 
I often appreciate the technical and well-funded advice he offers as I can't afford as many toys and iterations of wheels, frames, forks, cranks, etc. But, sometimes it can come across more bitter than beneficial. Folks that only have a few coins and are trying to get the most out of their equipment without moving on to the next greatest thing get a lot of service out of these threads for learning, sharing, and tinkering. A reminder to all us for sure to consider how helpful or not we are willing to be with our free advice and observations. Roll on!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Not so much bitter as feeling the pain of those who are confused by misinformation.

It seems like people jump the gun more and more these days, quickly blaming the product without thinking things through, then they quickly post their thoughts and that post lives on the internet forever.

If our livlihood depended on what we post, would we be be so flippant with our posts?

I actually considered contacting the moderator and asking them to close this thread because it has become a river of misinformation. If you'll notice the abscence of pros on this thread, that should tip you off as to what they think.

Personally, I waited with bated breath for the Mastodon, and now that it's here I want the world to know what a great fork Manitou made for us.

Please, if anyone has any concerns about the Mastodon, are struggling with set up, please go through a reliable LBS and have them help you.

There is nothing wrong with the Mastodon fork, it is a well designed and reliable product. I have flogged three pair, my son flogs his Mastodon, and all I have is praise for the fork.

I am happy to answer questions via PM.

Troll out!

PS: I'm not a nurse per se, I am a psychiatric provider, so I don't know a whole lot about catheters ... and I plan to keep it that way 



rvercoe said:


> Thanks Carl Mega, It seems NB gets his tone checked more and more these days. I agree that it can be a bummer for others on any of the number of threads he trolls. I often appreciate the technical and well-funded advice he offers as I can't afford as many toys and iterations of wheels, frames, forks, cranks, etc. But, sometimes it can come across more bitter than beneficial. Folks that only have a few coins and are trying to get the most out of their equipment without moving on to the next greatest thing get a lot of service out of these threads. A reminder to all us for sure to consider how helpful or not we are willing to be with our free advice and observations. Roll on!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

I cant believe from this HS coming loose BS, it became personal towards to one member to another. perhaps to post noob questions/concerns in the beginer lounge instead of a fork specific discussion. the information posted last couple of pages is misleading to people who wants to buy a mastodon


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I've has my Mas on all winter and ridden down to about -5f and to be honest I don't even know it's there, pretty much the biggest compliment I can award a fork. Thing just works!!


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

akacoke said:


> I cant believe from this HS coming loose BS, it became personal towards to one member to another. perhaps to post noob questions/concerns in the beginer lounge instead of a fork specific discussion. the information posted last couple of pages is misleading to people who wants to buy a mastodon


I'm no Pro, but I sure hope I can cut and install my new 120 Pro Std when I get back from vacation. New crown race will be in by time I return.

These latest posts have bummed me out and made me second guess and debate return. My Canyon has been a blast rigid but I'm sure better with the fork. Onward and upward!


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Exactly this is what me and people like nurse Ben wanna prevent. Mastodon is a great fork not only for fat by normal fork standard. Many people can vouche.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

I will add this as well. Like bdundee said about his Mastodon above, I barely even notice my Magnum + which is an awesome thing to be able to say. I'm sure with the same damper setup the Magnum + and Mastodon Pro feel very similar. You can easily tweak it to your exact personal feel preference. Best fork I've been in on years. My only complaint, One UP EDC cap setup is no dice.........which really isn't that much of an issue.


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Anyone notice the weight difference when stepping up from bluto to the Mastodon? I have a fairly light Trek Farley carbon with 27.5+ carbon wheels and am a little concerned about the weight penalty of this fork.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

It's a great fork. I expected as much having ridden their other top forks. No primitive dampers on this fork; an actual tuneable damper that makes the front of my Bucksaw as good as the back.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

First ride is in the books and a success. Self installed this morning which was a first for me but uneventful.

The fork itself is beefy as can be with no flex. Totally transformed my Canyon Dude CF from lightweight nimble machine to monster truck. Running 4" JJs at 9 psi I cruised over everything with ease. Bike probably gained 4.5 lbs over CF fork but I think it was worth it for fun factor.

Oh, headset/starnut/stem not loose yet.


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## RowanTheKiwi (Feb 10, 2018)

JeepRage said:


> Totally transformed my Canyon Dude CF from lightweight nimble machine to monster truck. Running 4" JJs at 9 psi I cruised over everything with ease. Bike probably gained 4.5 lbs over CF fork..


JeepRage - I've also (just, weeks old) got a Canyon Dude CF and am just about to pull the trigger on a Mastodon 120mm Pro Std, so was feeling quite stoked to see the exact same setup. Thanks for posting 

I noted in a post above you'd said something about a new crown race. Can I ask if you used the stock crown race or needed something different to fit the Mastodon? I assume clearance on the downtube was just fine and you haven't needed to do anything funky.

Thanks in advance.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

I bought a new Cane Creek 40 race off Amazon for $10 shipped so that I can swap the stock fork on quickly in the future. Plenty of clearance on the downturn. My bike doesn't feel like the featherweight it first did after tubeless with fork, bottle, and bag, but I love it. Only ridden my Santa Cruz once since getting the Dude. 

These are great bikes. Haven't found a need for 4.8s yet but want them. Where are you located?

Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk


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## RowanTheKiwi (Feb 10, 2018)

JeepRage said:


> I bought a new Cane Creek 40 race off Amazon for $10 shipped so that I can swap the stock fork on quickly in the future. Plenty of clearance on the downturn. My bike doesn't feel like the featherweight it first did after tubeless with fork, bottle, and bag, but I love it. Only ridden my Santa Cruz once since getting the Dude.
> 
> These are great bikes. Haven't found a need for 4.8s yet but want them. Where are you located?
> 
> Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk


Awesome thanks! Yeah I have a feeling my Enduro rig will get less love now with the Dude (with forks). I ended up getting the model with 4.8 JJs so she's going to be interesting with a proper fork, clocked in at 12.4kg after going tubeless. Located in New Zealand.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

RowanTheKiwi said:


> Awesome thanks! Yeah I have a feeling my Enduro rig will get less love now with the Dude (with forks). I ended up getting the model with 4.8 JJs so she's going to be interesting with a proper fork, clocked in at 12.4kg after going tubeless. Located in New Zealand.
> 
> View attachment 1182350


Looks great. I wish we could get colors here in the US, but I won't complain. 4.8s not an option here.


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## Jonboy99 (Jul 18, 2005)

Woah, gotta say some of the stuff on this thread is a little concerning. One of the major benefits of forums like is that I get to see people having real discussions about the pros and cons of pieces of equipment, and I can weigh up that info when deciding to buy something.

Now people are being scolded for talking about the issues they have, and told praise is fine but problems need to be kept to PM? Sounds a lot like censorship to me. Everyone has their different skill and experience levels, and discussions about relative beginners dealing with equipment problems that may or may not be down to that experience level can be very helpful to those in the same boat.

I find a lot of posts by the "super-regulars" on this forum very informative, but some clash markedly with my own experience and rider-requirements: My Bluto does everything I need from a fork on my fatbike (stops my hands going numb and wrists aching), and I find my 27.5 fattie wheels and tires slow and cumbersome - yet you'd think from the countless numbers of posts saying Blutos and 26" wheels should go the way of the dodo that there is no other point of view.

Lets keep free and open discussion on the forum, and a bit less of people telling others what to talk about - save that kind of thing for manufacturer's facebook pages. Keep an eye on the bigger picture rather than panicking that your pet bit of kit of the moment is getting some criticism.


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## alias33 (Sep 22, 2008)

I'll be selling my take off mastodon off my trek farley, lemme know if you want a new never used one.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

i had my fun with mastodon. and i went lefty


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## Snowfat (Feb 4, 2018)

Jonboy99 said:


> Woah, gotta say some of the stuff on this thread is a little concerning. One of the major benefits of forums like is that I get to see people having real discussions about the pros and cons of pieces of equipment, and I can weigh up that info when deciding to buy something.
> 
> Now people are being scolded for talking about the issues they have, and told praise is fine but problems need to be kept to PM? Sounds a lot like censorship to me. Everyone has their different skill and experience levels, and discussions about relative beginners dealing with equipment problems that may or may not be down to that experience level can be very helpful to those in the same boat.
> 
> ...


I agree, if a guy has a question or concern they should feel free to ask. Getting a snarky response helps no one.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

OK everyone, sorry for being gone for a while, work is a crazy thing sometimes!

I'll sum this up as fast as I can.

The steerer on these forks is sometimes loose in the crown and can move during the first few rides which makes the headset loose. This is a fact that I have proved with my second fork by taking before and after measurements of the steerers position. This one did exactly the same thing as my first, but much faster. I also called Hayes/Manitou about this and they confirmed that it does happen, that they consider it normal, and why it happens.

It is not the star nut or stem moving at the top. I've also confirmed this with before and after measurements.

They said, tighten it up until it stops moving and keep riding, you are all good. Be sure to check you have enough spacers or room at the top of the stem after it moves.

It happens because they press the steerer into the crown to a set pressure, not until it bottom out in the crown. This is done to avoid pressing in too far and causing other issue. That is straight from Hayes/Manitou.

Now, I've never had any other fork do this and I'm not 100% sold that it should happen. But I'm going to trust them here and see what happens. As it turns out my first fork only came a smidge loose after my last posting, which I tightened up and have not seen it move since. And, I beleive one other poster reported that his stopped moving as well. So, I'll go with Manitou's suggestion and snug it up and keep riding.

Have a great ride boys...

New, pre-ride.
















Same fork a short ride later.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Thanks for the follow up. My only observation or complaint so far is a slight clunk when topped out. I only noticed this d*cking around in garage and road but it seems to have stopped when I adjusted my 120 Pro slightly lower with the air pump attached. Probably around 110-112mm travel.


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## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

JeepRage said:


> Thanks for the follow up. My only observation or complaint so far is a slight clunk when topped out. I only noticed this d*cking around in garage and road but it seems to have stopped when I adjusted my 120 Pro slightly lower with the air pump attached. Probably around 110-112mm travel.


If you notice a top out noise when riding check the oil level. Our LBS had a few of these forks that needed oil level adjustment because the factory oil level was a bit too low. Apparently the oil volume required is very precise. They adjusted the oil level in my fork and the noise went away immediately.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Troy Carter said:


> It happens because they press the steerer into the crown to a set pressure, not until it bottom out in the crown. This is done to avoid pressing in too far and causing other issue. That is straight from Hayes/Manitou.


Heh. Holding pattern on comment except to say: when you feel like you've done everything right, and it keeps loosening - it's pretty understandable that someone would crank down on the starnut bolt (in desperation, etc) and see it move/pullout some. As I said, symptom not cause - and super interesting.

Godspeed internet arguers.



Carl Mega said:


> I'll break out just two: that the new equipment is in spec & this application is similar to others you know well. I personally feel that the Mastodon is in spec - the ID/OD conform to normal expectations *so unless the steerers were not fully pressed* - the fork mfging doesn't seem to be the cause.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

CanmoreBruce said:


> If you notice a top out noise when riding check the oil level. Our LBS had a few of these forks that needed oil level adjustment because the factory oil level was a bit too low. Apparently the oil volume required is very precise. They adjusted the oil level in my fork and the noise went away immediately.


That is great info, thanks. I'll have to look into that. What oil is everyone using on this fork?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JeepRage said:


> That is great info, thanks. I'll have to look into that. What oil is everyone using on this fork?


Stock is a clear Maxima fully synthetic in the damper. Pretty sure it's this stuff: Synthetic Racing Shock Fluid - MaximaUSA

If you're topping up you should probably stick to the same.

If you're doing an oil change I run Motorex 2.5wt in most which does slightly better in the cold than the above. I've also got other options for more extreme uses.


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## Jonboy99 (Jul 18, 2005)

Hmm, if the steerer can move in the crown like that, how are the top and bottom bearings supposed to remain square relative to each other?


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Jonboy99 said:


> Hmm, if the steerer can move in the crown like that, how are the top and bottom bearings supposed to remain square relative to each other?


You need to reset the headset/stem to take up the slop. It's a temporary thing on some of them not something you should always have. They told me it could take a couple times before it stops moving.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Troy Carter said:


> You need to reset the headset/stem to take up the slop. It's a temporary thing on some of them not something you should always have. They told me it could take a couple times before it stops moving.


Just got mine mounted this evening, we'll see from the looks of yours, mine is bound to move,
I'll take some measurements in the morning.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

tmbrown said:


> View attachment 1184277


Ha. This is great. Please post that up. There's a fairly significant difference between where your fork steerer extrudes vs. where mine and others have evidently settled. Easily 2mm.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Mine new from box looks just like TMBrowns. Once I finish the build and get a few rides in I'll chime back in if different.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Carl Mega said:


> Ha. This is great. Please post that up. There's a fairly significant difference between where your fork steerer extrudes vs. where mine and others have evidently settled. Easily 2mm.


It might be a week or so, were in this crazy freeze thaw cycle, that's mostly thaw&#8230; trails are a mess now, looks like blacktop this weekend.:madman:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)




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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> View attachment 1184358
> View attachment 1184359


The question is, have your always been like that (slightly recessed in). Mine looks like the pictures from a few posts up, slightly out.

That would explain the folks having issues, and depending just how much room was originally under the top cap, might be enough that all of a sudden there wasn't enough room under to take up the "new slack" after the steer tube pulled in and seated to it's final resting place.

I finally got my wheel built up, so it won't be long until i ride mine.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Shark said:


> The question is, have your always been like that (slightly recessed in). Mine looks like the pictures from a few posts up, slightly out.


Exactly. That's why this would be difficult to troubleshoot/pinpoint after the fact as most people have a sample of exactly one; once its settled in - nothing to compare (and no one is routinely checking steerer press depth on the underside of crown as matter of course during install - madness). The more recent guys with new forks who can measure before riding and check after should finally settle this topic. I'm already convinced from Troy's before/after pics and from my memory of what my fork looked like before and when I finally checked mine later on; the confirmation from Hayes/Manitou is icing on the cake.

Edit: meaning, those who had this issue may have just tightened their HS once - if it fully settled, you'd have no reason to care and moved on. Some others who settled more slowly or moved deeper into crown over time- it may be several confusing tightening rounds. I feel like mine was in the latter category. And other forks may never needed to settled at all - hence the comments from people who jumped to conclusions claiming 'all these forks are just fine'. Evidently not.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Guess what guys, one short ride of 6.5 miles and I have a loose headset, looks like it moved .015in or .38mm.:madman:


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

tmbrown said:


> Guess what guys, one short ride of 6.5 miles and I have a loose headset, looks like it moved .015in or .38mm.:madman:


Ha. But you are armed with super awesome knowledge of what it is so just keep taking up the slack until it stops. Might take a while which is annoying but hopefully tolerable. Between your pic (extruding about 1mm) and where mine landed (recessed about 2mm) that's a heck of a gap IMHO so maybe it'll take some time - no idea if about the 1.5mm/2mm mark is final spot everyone is going to find but NB, TC and mine seem to be around the same spot in the pics.

It's a long story not worth telling how I know but mine was semi-extruded when I got it - like yours. I wish I had come to Troy's very helpful and keen insight earlier so I could have caught it in the act but it's ok - now I know.

Cheers...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, since I never suffered from a loose headset, I both forks have always been like that.

You know what I think: Group Think and/Group Psychosis 



Shark said:


> The question is, have your always been like that (slightly recessed in). Mine looks like the pictures from a few posts up, slightly out.
> 
> That would explain the folks having issues, and depending just how much room was originally under the top cap, might be enough that all of a sudden there wasn't enough room under to take up the "new slack" after the steer tube pulled in and seated to it's final resting place.
> 
> I finally got my wheel built up, so it won't be long until i ride mine.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Had three of these forks, where 2 of them had obviously loose tubes. Never experienced this on any fork before, and I remember trying 2 several bearing sets, tightening, dismantle and putting together again and again. It really made me to think about my own bike mechanic skills. 

Suppose no one suspected loose tubes or any issue with the forks at that time, since it was likely proven to be a really good product without any flaws. So for a few of us, this issue was not considered serious at all. I see it have been written about loose head set bearings for the first time some months ago though. 
It is good that someone does seek deeper to sorted out the issues, and when it get confirmed by Hayes, we have the explanation. 

Anyway my fourth fork is on its way now so I will check before and after tighten the headset to see any movement.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Mine is like this, about 0.5mm out, after 3 months and something like 500km.

Should be like this since the beginning since I never had anything loose.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Yeah we know what's happening, and apparently Manitou does also… What I don’t understand is why Manitou doesn’t pull these new forks from the distributor, or have the distributor open the boxes and inspect, and return those that are suspect back to manufacturing for repair. Why should the consumer have to deal with this, I have a carbon frame, and this can't be good for it.

By the way, my short ride on tight single track was very eye-opening, and I'm sure I had a big grin the whole time, this fork has really transformed my Farley, I was totally beat from cutting new trail for 2-1/2 hours earlier it the day, so I had to cut my ride short which was probably a good thing…


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Oh my, the conspiracy theorists have arrived. What shall we do?

Having had an actual, very rare, verified steering tube become loose in a crown (Wren), I can honestly say am not seeing this loosening issue. 

If a steering tube moved vertically in the crown, it would also twist ... and there have been zero issues with twisting. Even one example of twist would be eye opening.

Maybe Douglas could chime in on the process for inserting a steerer tube into a crown?

But please do go on with the conspiracy, it’s very entertaining.


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> Oh my, the conspiracy theorists have arrived. What shall we do?
> 
> Having had an actual, very rare, verified steering tube become loose in a crown (Wren), I can honestly say am not seeing this loosening issue.
> 
> ...


That's great to hear you haven't had any issues, but there are obviously a number of competent people (you know....those same individuals you called out as being "amateurs") that have had the issue. Maybe you missed Troy's post from above where he contacted Manitou and they confirmed it can/does happen?



Troy Carter said:


> ...The steerer on these forks is sometimes loose in the crown and can move during the first few rides which makes the headset loose. This is a fact that I have proved with my second fork by taking before and after measurements of the steerers position. This one did exactly the same thing as my first, but much faster. _*I also called Hayes/Manitou about this and they confirmed that it does happen, that they consider it normal, and why it happens.*_


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

My Bluto works like a charm

ymmv


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> If a steering tube moved vertically in the crown, it would also twist ... and there have been zero issues with twisting.


Ben, just look at the pictures, the tubes is seated different on different forks. It is not obvious that it should be felt loose both ways.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Ben, just look at the pictures, the tubes is seated different on different forks. It is not obvious that it should be felt loose both ways.


^This. If you gave me 10 Wozo frames and 10 Cane Creek headsets, I'd press them in to 1/100ths tolerance every single time. The fact that you can visually see +/- 3mm of difference in these various steerers and crowns speaks for itself regarding the mfging tolerances here.

Settled law at this point. I actually like my fork tho.

Edit: Went to garage - mine is recessed a hair over 1mm. I also re-confirmed that mine was extended ~1mm when received. So ~2mm for me not 3mm but that's plenty.

Minor life rant:

When someone's experience/challenge is different that yours, resist the initial temptation to discredit, discount and debunk. Instead, try to listen, understand and help. It's good for your soul. Snow time! Later all....


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

I'm surprised that the steerer tube is just an interference fit and not welded or joined permanently in some other manner. That seems like a serious crash waiting to happen.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

twodownzero said:


> I'm surprised that the steerer tube is just an interference fit and not welded or joined permanently in some other manner. That seems like a serious crash waiting to happen.


Just about every fork out there is like that.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

twodownzero said:


> I'm surprised that the steerer tube is just an interference fit and not welded or joined permanently in some other manner. That seems like a serious crash waiting to happen.


it should be no issue if the tube was pushed enough into the crown. There should be so tight fit that it should never come loose, but when it sits not into its place it will be forced to go further in. Luckily this tube is settled when clamped at the frame, it need to be clamped so hard that it forces the tube into the crown.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe Douglas could chime in on the process for inserting a steerer tube into a crown?


Who's Douglas?

All steerer tubes in suspension forks are press-fit (exceptions would be the welded RST and Scott Unicrowns from the mid 90's). They usually take several tons force to install and grip into the crown pretty well. I've installed and removed steerers myself.

Clearly a headset in use can produce the several tons of uplift required to fully seat a steerer tube that wasn't fully seated at the factory.

Note that being able to move a steerer up to it's fully seated position is the only direction a fork steerer tube can move. The torque to twist one in the crown is immense. Unless something is seriously wrong you'd never get a stem to grip tight enough.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Since everyone is sharing pics and I have a few min before I leave for skiing. This is how I absolutely know mine moved. First, after Troy's messages I was reminded that during my build I saw it extruded and thought it was odd enough that I stopped working actually checked several other Manitou forks to see if they were all extruding - they were not. Went about my business and finished setting the crown race.

here you can see the indent the extruded steerer left on the 2x4 I set the bottom of the fork on when I set the race. Notice the deep ring it left. No doubt it was extruded. A fossil!









Here you can see my fork steerer now. Recessed 1mm.









Conspiracy on!


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Conspiracy… it must be those pesky Russians.

I road 16.5 miles today at Highland, I stopped to tighten it up after 7 miles, its loose now after the ride, and it's pretty much flush now, I could take a picture but what's the point, it's definitely moving.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

tmbrown said:


> Conspiracy&#8230; it must be those pesky Russians.
> 
> I road 16.5 miles today at Highland, I stopped to tighten it up after 7 miles, its loose now after the ride, and it's pretty much flush now, I could take a picture but what's the point, it's definitely moving.


If it is pulling up, it will stop when the flange hits and then stay tight.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Dougal said:


> If it is pulling up, it will stop when the flange hits and then stay tight.


Yep, we are on the same page.:thumbsup:


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Mine is about flush. I hammered it when setting the race so I don't know if it has been this way since shipping. Not loose yet though.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Of my two which both moved the first moved three times over 5-6 rides before settling in and not moving anymore. That one was confusing for sure because it didn't just move and stop. After the last time I adjusted it I went out and smashed into some tall curbs for a half hour or so trying to get it to move but it just wouldn't. Seems to be set and tight now.

The second one moved from about flush to set and finished within five minutes. I re-adjusted the stem/headset one time and it seems to be solid now. This one hasn't even seen a trail yet, just a bit of play time by the house.

Point being they seem to take varied amounts of ride time or abuse to settle but once they are set they seem solid.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

OK, I have no idea how to embed a youtube video...

Also note that my second fork has the light stanchions. So far these seem to be no different than the black version other than the color inside and out.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Troy Carter said:


> OK, I have no idea how to embed a youtube video....


But you did...twice 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Troy Carter said:


>


Fun vid. I like horsing around.

I think we can call it at this point...done. Ha. Props to you on the insight, pics and see thru on calling Manitou - that tends to work 

Btw- KTMNealio had this pegged a month ago.



KTMNealio said:


> Take this for what it's worth.
> My headset kept getting loose on my first Mastodon upper. *I noticed (but didn't measure to verify) that the steer tube looked like it was more inset (from the bottom). *I ended up getting a new upper from Manitou and haven't had any problems since.


PS - Thank you community. You solved the mystery and fixed my brain damage! The group can overcome.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

Carl Mega said:


> Fun vid. I like horsing around.
> 
> I think we can call it at this point...done. Ha. Props to you on the insight, pics and see thru on calling Manitou - that tends to work
> 
> Btw- KTMNealio had this pegged a month ago.


I made keen notice of that post and it's one of the reasons I called them about it. Honestly think some others would have figured it out eventually as well but I just happened to have a new and used fork sitting in front of me which made things easier to see.

Agreed, we've settled this issue but I wanted to share as much as possible so that potential buyers don't think this is a reason not to get the fork. So far, performance wise, this thing is awesome. And, the minor settling issue doesn't bother me as long as we know it's not a major issue.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Troy Carter said:


> I made keen notice of that post and it's one of the reasons I called them about it. Honestly think some others would have figured it out eventually as well but I just happened to have a new and used fork sitting in front of me which made things easier to see.
> 
> Agreed, we've settled this issue but I wanted to share as much as possible so that potential buyers don't think this is a reason not to get the fork. So far, performance wise, this thing is awesome. And, the minor settling issue doesn't bother me as long as we know it's not a major issue.


And Manitou will be making sure all unsold forks are sorted from here on in. It's just dealing with the ones already out there.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Dougal said:


> And Manitou will be making sure all unsold forks are sorted from here on in. It's just dealing with the ones already out there.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Is anyone running a thicker crown race or some other kind of spacer for more clearance?


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

twodownzero said:


> Is anyone running a thicker crown race or some other kind of spacer for more clearance?


Yep, I had to for my med frame Farley; look at the pictures on post #1133. Cane Creek 3mm lower race custom for Salsa, I machined the taper off the top, and basically it's just a washer/spacer.
Love the fork by the way, I can just plow through rock gardens now, and let it loose on fast downhill's, pulled the studded Gnarwhal's off and put the Barb's back on, the bike just fly's now.


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## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

twodownzero said:


> Is anyone running a thicker crown race or some other kind of spacer for more clearance?


Yes, the Salsa Cane Creek 3mm crown race on a Pivot Les Fat. It peerfect! I bought two and do not need the second. PM if interested.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

My headset seemed to sort itself out as well, after putting a 2mm spacer in the stack.There is quite alot of stiction that has got worse ( about 6 rides worth).Does the fork have a " breaking in period" or is it a potential problem.Ive tried letting all the air our, applying slick honey to the stanchions, really aired but no improvement.


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## Jonboy99 (Jul 18, 2005)

Interesting. I wonder if farley have started doing this (thicker crownn race) on their farley 7? Pics on the website show a mix of the frame with a plastic protector on the downtube, and other pics with no such protector. Wonder if they changed recently? I can't think of any major downside to a thicker crown race - the increase in leverage can't be that much.
https://www.trekbikes.com/ca/en_CA/...farley/farley-7/p/1064000-2018/?colorCode=red


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Thanks for the information about the oil level.I was wondering if perhaps my fork wasnt set up right in the factory,as Im getting the clunk s well and terrible stiction.I spoke to manitou and they said there was something wrong with my fork based on my description,and to send it back to the shop i bought it from


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Ordered a cassette tool to hack up and open the fork and check my oil level. Hopefully next week. I'll order oil after I confirm the level if low.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Watched your Vid-good riding mate! I have the same silver stanchioned mastodon,did your come with a remote lockout?Mine is the ext comp120.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The cassette tool is not gonna help you check oil levels. You need the socket to pull the stanchions, oil is in the lowers.

The cassette too will allow you to open the uppers. I'd stay out if the damper, it's not likely causing the problem you describe.



JeepRage said:


> Ordered a cassette tool to hack up and open the fork and check my oil level. Hopefully next week. I'll order oil after I confirm the level if low.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The cassette tool is not gonna help you check oil levels. You need the socket to pull the stanchions, oil is in the lowers.
> 
> The cassette too will allow you to open the uppers. I'd stay out if the damper, it's not likely causing the problem you describe.


Ummm....the damper oil...which is what causes knocking....is under the damper...which you have to remove( from the top)
The bath oil....is in the lowers


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

bikemad1 said:


> Watched your Vid-good riding mate! I have the same silver stanchioned mastodon,did your come with a remote lockout?Mine is the ext comp120.


Thanks,

No lockout with mine. I don't race or ride places where the lockout is really a requirement so I prefer not to have them. I will occasionally reach down to adjust the knob but that's rare.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Damper oil being low and causing knocking? Hmm, I'm not sure that makes sense, but what do I know. What I do know from opening and replacing oil in the Mastodon damper is that the "doer" better know what they're doing; ie previously having done that work on other forks.

Here in Northern Nevada we are enjoying the sunny weather, it's cooled down out here, some flurries today, but still having a great winter, have been able to ride any day I want on dirt, which is truly amazing after being snowbound for the past four winters.

Just got some 29+ built up Mike Curiak at Lacemine29, Duroc 40 on Big Rides. Gonna try the Chupas this summer to see if they can take the abuse and still ride fast, otherwise it's back to Minions. The Chupas, being slightly shorter than the Minions, will fit perfect in an unmodified STD; the Minions fit, but it was tight.

Enjoy the ride!

BTW, thanks for chiming in "Dougal" 



the mayor said:


> Ummm....the damper oil...which is what causes knocking....is under the damper...which you have to remove( from the top)
> The bath oil....is in the lowers


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## MSH (Jun 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> ....Just got some 29+ built up Mike Curiak at Lacemine29, Duroc 40 on Big Rides. Gonna try the Chupas this summer to see if they can take the abuse and still ride fast, otherwise it's back to Minions. The Chupas, being slightly shorter than the Minions, will fit perfect in an unmodified STD; the Minions fit, but it was tight.


I rode Chupas all last yr on my 29+ setup (i35s+Big rides) for my Wozo and I was amazed at how much those tires kill it. Ripper traction and the surprising thing for me, seeing they are a sub 900g tire at that size, was the durability. Last season, I sliced 3-4 rear EXO casing tires on my Hightower (Aggressors) and Ripley (Ikon 2.35s) here on Front Range which can be brutal on tires. I didn't have a single issue with the Chupas and I ride aggressively and smash into a lot of crap. I am going to try out the new XR4 3.0 on the front with Chupa on rear for this upcoming season though. Not sure I need the Xr4 but when it starts to get real dry and blown out around here it's nice to have the bigger lugs to dig & bite

Regarding the STD I had plenty of hard hits with the Chupas last yr using all the travel (mine set at 130) and I never had an issue (other than minor buzz from slight tire-2-fender contact)


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> The cassette tool is not gonna help you check oil levels. You need the socket to pull the stanchions, oil is in the lowers.
> 
> The cassette too will allow you to open the uppers. I'd stay out if the damper, it's not likely causing the problem you describe.


What I read and saw in a video somewhere, was measuring the oil levels as XX mm from the top. To do that, I though I saw it by removing the adjustment knobs at the top, using the cassette tool. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that was where I was going to start as a first step in the process.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

JeepRage said:


> What I read and saw in a video somewhere, was measuring the oil levels as XX mm from the top. To do that, I though I saw it by removing the adjustment knobs at the top, using the cassette tool. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that was where I was going to start as a first step in the process.


That is how you check , change or add oil. 
The Damper oil is in the damper....crazy, huh?
There are videos and hardcopy on the Manitou site.
There is a little oil in the lowers that is for lubrication only....has nothing to do with damping...although it is important


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, but use the right oil and don't introduce any pollutants.

Sorry to be so critical, but the level of technical expertise exhibited by posters on this thread has been underwhelming. So to assure a person I don't know, about their ability to work on a fork... well, I don't have that confidence in a stranger.

If you mess up, take the fork to your LBS and apologize profusely, beer general helps smooth the way 



JeepRage said:


> What I read and saw in a video somewhere, was measuring the oil levels as XX mm from the top. To do that, I though I saw it by removing the adjustment knobs at the top, using the cassette tool. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but that was where I was going to start as a first step in the process.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, but use the right oil and don't introduce any pollutants.
> 
> Sorry to be so critical, but the level of technical expertise exhibited by posters on this thread has been underwhelming. So to assure a person I don't know, about their ability to work on a fork... well, I don't have that confidence in a stranger.
> 
> If you mess up, take the fork to your LBS and apologize profusely, beer general helps smooth the way


Considering you don't know where the damping oil is in the fork....you might not want to talk about people's technical abilities.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Umm, what? I'm pretty sure I know where the damper oil is since I replaced it.

But thanks for your valuable insights.

What a gem this place has become.



the mayor said:


> Considering you don't know where the damping oil is in the fork....you might not want to talk about people's technical abilities.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yes, but use the right oil and don't introduce any pollutants.
> 
> Sorry to be so critical, but the level of technical expertise exhibited by posters on this thread has been underwhelming. So to assure a person I don't know, about their ability to work on a fork... well, I don't have that confidence in a stranger.
> 
> If you mess up, take the fork to your LBS and apologize profusely, beer general helps smooth the way


Appreciate the concern over my abilities. I self installed the fork without issue and have been servicing my own forks since my Judy XC back in the 90s. I posted about a slight top out clunk for awareness and ideas to resolve.

I will deal with the oil after I identify if it is low as-is. I have a handful of rides and don't want to tear down for no reason at all.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

The cassette tool is not gonna help you check oil levels. You need the socket to pull the stanchions, oil is in the lowers.
-Nurse Ben


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Glad to hear it.

I'll be surprised if the oil is low, but anything is possible.

You can make your own Manitou cassette tool by using a cutting tool to remove a portion of the tool, I did this with an old cassette tool using a dremel.

I used a lighter weight oil when I replaced the oil in my damper, not a bad idea if you ride where it's cold.

Oddly, I had some clunky performance in one of my Mastodon, but after I broke it down the clunking stopped; all I did was change the travel limit spacers, go figure.

Clunking could be possible if the lubrication oil in the lowers is low, which is why I was suggesting what I did, something to think about if the damper oil is normal.

Four Mastodons to date, one sold, three still going strong, no issues, no complaints. I guess it's just good luck 



JeepRage said:


> Appreciate the concern over my abilities. I self installed the fork without issue and have been servicing my own forks since my Judy XC back in the 90s. I posted about a slight top out clunk for awareness and ideas to resolve.
> 
> I will deal with the oil after I identify if it is low as-is. I have a handful of rides and don't want to tear down for no reason at all.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

For those of you with questions about oil level and service, travel changes, all the information is on Manitou's website, just try and be helpful guys, and not condescending&#8230;

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017-RB-Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Service-Guide.pdf

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yeah, it would be be nice if there wasn't so much nastiness and personal attacks, but I've given up on people being nice, so I block folks when I get tired of their shite.

I'll admit this is a weird thread, I've not seen this sort of confusion and poor communication in any other suspension threads; even the Wren thread didn't go this far south.

I wonder if Manitou provided too much opportunity for mucking about in the fork, but made it just hard enough to do the work that many home mechanics are left scratching their heads.

I like having the options to change things up without having to buy additional parts (air shafts), but there is a learning curve.



tmbrown said:


> For those of you with questions about oil level and service, travel changes, all the information is on Manitou's website, just try and be helpful guys, and not condescending&#8230;
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/2017-RB-Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Service-Guide.pdf
> 
> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Mine came with a remote lockout lever that fits on the bars.As I'm as capable bike mechanic as Stevie wonder is a race car driver I had the shop install it.worked for half an hour.They couldn't sort it, so I took it off.I would prefer the manual lock out but I will see.The stiction issues and " clunkyness is an issue though so I'm gonna send it back to the distributor


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Maybe we need a Mastodon friends group to support people when they get their first fork?

So I’ll start:

I’m in the Tahoe area, if anyone is struggling with their Mastodon or has concerns before getting a Mastodon, send me a PM and I’ll give you a hand. I also have a couple bikes set up with Mastodon forks that you can check out.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe we need a Mastodon friends group to support people when they get their first fork?
> 
> So I'll start:
> 
> I'm in the Tahoe area, if anyone is struggling with their Mastodon or has concerns before getting a Mastodon, send me a PM and I'll give you a hand. I also have a couple bikes set up with Mastodon forks that you can check out.


If you want to fly to MA to examine mine, that would be great. I rode my Fox bike after my last ride to double check that Mastadon clunk isn't in my head, and it isn't. Fox was smooth and clunkless. I'll hope oil level is what is off on mine.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That's a bit far for me, but we could in Moab, I'll be there in mid March 

If the clunking doesn't go away, break the whole fork down and look inside, it's a good learning experience and it might just answer the question.



JeepRage said:


> If you want to fly to MA to examine mine, that would be great. I rode my Fox bike after my last ride to double check that Mastadon clunk isn't in my head, and it isn't. Fox was smooth and clunkless. I'll hope oil level is what is off on mine.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> If the clunking doesn't go away, break the whole fork down and look inside, it's a good learning experience and it might just answer the question.


This is good advise if you're mechanically inclined and can follow the service manual, make sure your have the proper fluids, fork oil, semi-bath oil (I used Mobil one) and Slickoleum grease (Slick Honey or Super slick from Rock-n-Roll) The Mattoc tool kit is pretty nice, if you don't feel like modifying a cassette tool, and grinding down a 8mm deepwell socket.

I bought a 120mm standard fork, on Ben's recommendation, and added one bottom-out spacer on each leg and removed one Top-out spacer, plenty of room for the studded 4.5" Gnarwhal's when fully compressed.

I'm happy with my fork so far, the only hiccup was the steering tube not being pressed all the way in, and after about 35 miles, I think it's bottomed out now.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Test win for the Mastodon:
2018 FAT BIKE SUSPENSION FORK SHOOTOUT - RIDEFATBIKES.CA


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## Rangie (Jan 17, 2015)

Espen W said:


> Test win for the Mastodon:
> 2018 FAT BIKE SUSPENSION FORK SHOOTOUT - RIDEFATBIKES.CA


Why does this knucklehead think you need new lowers for the Bluto when the bushings wear out?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Espen W said:


> Test win for the Mastodon:
> 2018 FAT BIKE SUSPENSION FORK SHOOTOUT - RIDEFATBIKES.CA


That is a great review. Deserves its own thread so it isn't lost in here.


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## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

Shark said:


> That is a great review. Deserves its own thread so it isn't lost in here.


Aye.
Done, Sir!
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/suspension-fork-test-1070216.html#post13570778


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

As if there was ever any doubts...

The Wren is way sloppier than they assessed, kinda makes me wonder if they actually placed the wheel between their legs and gave the bars a twist. Of course that is a characteristic of inverted forks so maybe they didn’t care? The damping and temp issues are well known. The tire rubbing is easy to simulate, they just didn’t try hard enough.

I can’t believe the testers didn’t know enough about the Mastodon to get the STD for the test. The STD has no less tire cleaner than the Bluto and certainly at least as much clearance as the Wren. Suggesting Manitou revise their tire compatibility table doesn’t excuse their poor choice.

They should have done head to head comparisons on the Mutz with all three forks set at 120mm, that would have been very telling.

At least they got the conclusions right


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## rvercoe (Nov 7, 2010)

*Another Recent Mastodon Vs Bluto Comparison*

I didn't see this recent comparison posted here yet so I figured I'd add it to the mix:
https://www.bikeradar.com/us/mtb/gea...astodon-51741/


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Just got my Mastodon Pro installed yesterday along with a dropper seatpost. Looking forward to heading out to the trails today.


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

twodownzero said:


> View attachment 1186859
> 
> 
> Just got my Mastodon Pro installed yesterday along with a dropper seatpost. Looking forward to heading out to the trails today.


Does the crown clear the down tube?


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

akt42 said:


> Does the crown clear the down tube?


It has a 3mm spacer on it and I wish it was 5mm instead. The knob does touch the downtube enough to change its setting, but the bar can go a 180 degrees.

So in a word, yes, but there is contact.

I may have a 5-6mm spacer made instead.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

twodownzero said:


> It has a 3mm spacer on it and I wish it was 5mm instead. The knob does touch the downtube enough to change its setting, but the bar can go a 180 degrees.
> 
> So in a word, yes, but there is contact.
> 
> I may have a 5-6mm spacer made instead.


I saw somewhere, there are different knobs to help clearance...I think I read it on the salsa bucksaw website...


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Shark said:


> I saw somewhere, there are different knobs to help clearance...I think I read it on the salsa bucksaw website...


If you find out more, let me know. Otherwise I just have to change crown races.


----------



## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

Who is making fenders for this fork?


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

mikeetheviking said:


> Who is making fenders for this fork?


https://beaverguardfatbike.com/prod...-manitou-mastodon-usage-manitou-mastodon-fork


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Mebaru said:


> https://beaverguardfatbike.com/prod...-manitou-mastodon-usage-manitou-mastodon-fork


last thing I want is a Beaver guard, I want as much Beaver as i can get


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

cmg71 said:


> last thing I want is a Beaver guard, I want as much Beaver as i can get


Lol  Well, it's a beaver mud guard, not a beaver guard  This thing guards you from beaver mud, it's for your safety...


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Did a 10 mile ride yesterday and ended up having to tighten headset again afterwards. I've got to be about set now. Maybe one more good ride and I'll be fully seated. 

Opened my damper and added a few mm of 3wt oil tonight that at least seems to reduce or eliminate top out clunk, even if placebo effect. 13mm nut under dial was finger tight at best though not sure if that would have contributed. 

Regardless, liking the fork a lot.


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## Jonboy99 (Jul 18, 2005)

I might be being a bit stupid, but isn't the fork getting less and less seated each time it moves? What holds it in its final position?


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Jonboy99 said:


> I might be being a bit stupid, but isn't the fork getting less and less seated each time it moves? What holds it in its final position?


Steerer tube is being pulled further up into the crown. Each time I loosen my stem, I can tighten the top cap and pull the slack out of the steerer tube/headset. Eventually the tapper of the tube and crown should be so tight there is no movement left.

I've been riding off or into rocks extra hard right after I tighten each time to try to get any additional slack out immediately.


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## Jonboy99 (Jul 18, 2005)

JeepRage said:


> Steerer tube is being pulled further up into the crown. Each time I loosen my stem, I can tighten the top cap and pull the slack out of the steerer tube/headset. Eventually the tapper of the tube and crown should be so tight there is no movement left.
> 
> I've been riding off or into rocks extra hard right after I tighten each time to try to get any additional slack out immediately.


Ah right, so I guess the fork is made by pushing the steerer tube in from the bottom of the crown? I was thinking it was the other way around, but that makes sense now.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jonboy99 said:


> I might be being a bit stupid, but isn't the fork getting less and less seated each time it moves? What holds it in its final position?


It's flanged. Once the flange hits it can't pull up any further.


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## NHayden (Oct 13, 2016)

Hey NBen. What do you ride while in Moab. We do Bartlet Wash up North and Slick Rock out east of Moab. I think we are doing Sovereign Single track today. Wanted to do Porcupine Rim again this year but my buds want to do new stuff. We've done Sovereign on the dirt bikes a bunch but not the Mountainbikes. 

Hayden.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Klondike at least once, I camp out there on the way out.

Might do the open section of Enchilada, meeting friends who have been there all week, so whatever they haven’t done.

My buddies may not be too fit, new parents and working stiffs, so I’ll probab do double days.


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## NHayden (Oct 13, 2016)

LOL. Yep thats me. Out a shape working Stiff. Havent done that Whole Encha yet. Maybe some day. Looks like a fantastic day ahead. Hiking Fiery Furnace tomorrow in Arches. Looks like a lot of snow yet up there on the mountains. We did Beef Basin yesterday down in Needles. Exit to the south East was all blocked with snow. Had to come out up over Elephant hill. 

Have a good week man!! 

Hayden.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Are you there now?

We'll be there Thursday AM, holler at me if you want to ride.



NHayden said:


> LOL. Yep thats me. Out a shape working Stiff. Havent done that Whole Encha yet. Maybe some day. Looks like a fantastic day ahead. Hiking Fiery Furnace tomorrow in Arches. Looks like a lot of snow yet up there on the mountains. We did Beef Basin yesterday down in Needles. Exit to the south East was all blocked with snow. Had to come out up over Elephant hill.
> 
> Have a good week man!!
> 
> Hayden.


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

twodownzero said:


> If you find out more, let me know. Otherwise I just have to change crown races.


You can replace the compression knob with the one that comes on the Manitou Circus. I just got this info from Salsa's tech support. They say you can likely just call them direct and get it, otherwise hit up your LBS.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

I just saw that there are new low friction seals for 34mm Manitou forks. Do they come mounted on the 2018 forks? Or are they just an upgrade so far?
I will soon get a Mastodon Comp, how could I know if I have the newer seals?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

HappyMTB.fr said:


> I just saw that there are new low friction seals for 34mm Manitou forks. Do they come mounted on the 2018 forks? Or are they just an upgrade so far?
> I will soon get a Mastodon Comp, how could I know if I have the newer seals?


All Mastodon got the new seals. They were released with those forks to get the low temperature performance.

It's the earlier Mattoc and Magnum forks that can (and should) be upgraded. All 2018 34mm forks have them stock.


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## NHayden (Oct 13, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Are you there now?
> 
> We'll be there Thursday AM, holler at me if you want to ride.


Yes we are. We played on Sovereign Single Track today for a bit. Had to fix a KTM oil leak this morning. It was a warm day....almost hot. I think our next outing on the bikes is Sat Morning for a bit before we head back to KS, Sat after noon.

Hayden.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

KTM oil leak? I didn't know KTM made mountain bikes 

We lose our housing Sat am, friends are driving back to Denver, so we'll have breakfast in town then head to Klondike or go over to GJ.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Dougal said:


> All Mastodon got the new seals. They were released with those forks to get the low temperature performance.
> 
> It's the earlier Mattoc and Magnum forks that can (and should) be upgraded. All 2018 34mm forks have them stock.


Thank you very much Dougal!


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## BlueKnight365 (Mar 16, 2018)

*Cane Creek has a +6 40mm crown race*

Brand new to the mtbr forums, but really wanted to share this info. I just ordered a Mastodon Pro EXT 100 for my Beargrease, then immediately started to panic when I checked the Salsa site to find that they now specifically call out the Mastodon as being incompatible with it! But thanks to this thread, I found at least one mention of a Mastodon being successfully installed on said fat bike. Since I will still probably have crown clearance issues because of the frame design, I've been looking into various fork bumpers and rubber/foam armor to prevent any damage.

I might have resolved it thanks to a random find on Universal Cycles. Cane Creek just released a +6 40mm crown race! I was about to pull the trigger on the +3 Salsa Crown Race and pray for the best, but I'm hopeful that this newer one will provide enough clearance (might have to change out the compression knob too, as mentioned in an earlier post).

I've just gotten into mountain biking in the last year after losing a ton of weight (330-220), and these forums were a big help in finding information when I decided I wanted a year-round fat bike. So a big thanks to everyone who posted on here to describe the pros and cons of the Mastodon (after reading nearly this entire thread, I might go with Nurse Ben's advice and send the EXT back for the STD. Sounds like it'll still take my 27.5 x 3.8 Minions, and have clearance for the 29+ set I might build later this year. And then I avoid any AC length issues).

Sorry if I sound weirdly effusive. Just really happy that I can probably make this fork work.


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## NHayden (Oct 13, 2016)

Wow. Now thats some weight loss. Congrats.

These guys have been a big help here in getting this fork to match up to so many bikes. I got the Std Pro 120 about 3 weeks ago. It went on a 2017 Trek Farley EX8. Its first outing was in Moab Ut which is where Im still at. Ive been very impressed with it this week. The steerer tube did seat a bit after playing in the BMX park here. We tighted it up and went on playing. I may have been a little peeeved if I didnt know already that it was bound to happen. Thanks to these guys, it was no big deal. Really happy with my Mastodon. 

Hayden.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dump the EXT, it's not necessary. Also might want to thing about getting the 120mm and using a shock pump to reduce travel. The 100mm is limited to 00-100mm travel whereas the 120mm can be run 0-150mm.

It never hurts to have a fork that has more range.

If I was Manitou I'd dump the EXT and 100mm versions, sell the Comp and Pro STD only.

I wish they'd build a fork designed for 3-4" tires, call it Bfat Plus.



BlueKnight365 said:


> Brand new to the mtbr forums, but really wanted to share this info. I just ordered a Mastodon Pro EXT 100 for my Beargrease, then immediately started to panic when I checked the Salsa site to find that they now specifically call out the Mastodon as being incompatible with it! But thanks to this thread, I found at least one mention of a Mastodon being successfully installed on said fat bike. Since I will still probably have crown clearance issues because of the frame design, I've been looking into various fork bumpers and rubber/foam armor to prevent any damage.
> 
> I might have resolved it thanks to a random find on Universal Cycles. Cane Creek just released a +6 40mm crown race! I was about to pull the trigger on the +3 Salsa Crown Race and pray for the best, but I'm hopeful that this newer one will provide enough clearance (might have to change out the compression knob too, as mentioned in an earlier post).
> 
> ...


----------



## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> I wish they'd build a fork designed for 3-4" tires, call it Bfat Plus.


They've had that fork for 2-3 years now, 27.5+ Magnum/Mattoc


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Rode Klondike, Ahab, Mag Seven, Klonzo.

Klonzo is pretty mellow, but it was on the way out and we had some newer riders.

Ahab was great as always. Mag Seven is fun, not really hard, but it's got some mileage to it.

Moab blacks are a tad easier than GJ blacks, there's stuff in Lunch Loops that I walk every time.



NHayden said:


> Yes we are. We played on Sovereign Single Track today for a bit. Had to fix a KTM oil leak this morning. It was a warm day....almost hot. I think our next outing on the bikes is Sat Morning for a bit before we head back to KS, Sat after noon.
> 
> Hayden.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

nitrousjunky said:


> They've had that fork for 2-3 years now, 27.5+ Magnum/Mattoc


I think Magnum won't fit 27.5+ 4" tires.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Mebaru said:


> I think Magnum won't fit 27.5+ 4" tires.


You've never had your hands on a magnum. On 65mm rims it will likely fit. Might be a little close (not a ton of room for mud). I have 3.0s on i45s and all kinds of room left. We already know 27.5 Hodags fit no problem, which are 3.8.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

RAKC Ind said:


> You've never had your hands on a magnum. On 65mm rims it will likely fit. Might be a little close (not a ton of room for mud). I have 3.0s on i45s and all kinds of room left. We already know 27.5 Hodags fit no problem, which are 3.8.


You're right, I never had that fork. But sometime ago, before I bought Mastodon Pro, I was considering Magnum Pro for 27.5 3.5-4.0" tires on 45-50mm rims, I did a research on topic and I believe I read about fitting or clearance issues. Maybe I am wrong though, it will be great if Magnum can fit 27.5x4.0.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

akt42 said:


> You can replace the compression knob with the one that comes on the Manitou Circus. I just got this info from Salsa's tech support. They say you can likely just call them direct and get it, otherwise hit up your LBS.


Just got off the phone with their tech support. This will work for the Comp but not the Pro model. With the Pro, I'm stuck with what I have. I may just leave it; there's a scratch in the powder coat on the downtube of my bike now anyway.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Mebaru said:


> You're right, I never had that fork. But sometime ago, before I bought Mastodon Pro, I was considering Magnum Pro for 27.5 3.5-4.0" tires on 45-50mm rims, I did a research on topic and I believe I read about fitting or clearance issues. Maybe I am wrong though, it will be great if Magnum can fit 27.5x4.0.


I have the Magnum 27.5+ and am running Bonty Hodag 27.5x3.8 on a 50mm Mulefut rim. I have around a 1/4-3/8" clearance everywhere around the tire.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

nitrousjunky said:


> I have the Magnum 27.5+ and am running Bonty Hodag 27.5x3.8 on a 50mm Mulefit rim. I have around a 1/4-3/8" clearance everywhere around the tire.


Thanks, good to know.


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## calzonical (Aug 30, 2005)

tmbrown said:


> I bought a 120mm standard fork, on Ben's recommendation, and added one bottom-out spacer on each leg and removed one Top-out spacer, plenty of room for the studded 4.5" Gnarwhal's when fully compressed.


Any chance that you could provide measurement and/or pic of clearance between Gnarwhal's and fully compressed fork?

I'm am leaning toward returning the 120 ext for a 120 std. I also run 29x3.0 Chupas on Arc45 and hoping this combo will work with modified 120 std.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

They work with the non modified STD, but I already mentioned that more than a few times 

I would never get an EXT unless I was running an XXL, but then that use begs the question of why in the world anyone would run a suspension fork with an XXL...

The EXT is not necessary for any application. Worst case scenario, for the type A's in the crowd, you add a spacer to an STD to increase the bottom out by 10mm.

I'm running Chupas and they clear my STD by more than a 1/4" at full compression, also fit the Minion 29 x 3".



calzonical said:


> Any chance that you could provide measurement and/or pic of clearance between Gnarwhal's and fully compressed fork?
> 
> I'm am leaning toward returning the 120 ext for a 120 std. I also run 29x3.0 Chupas on Arc45 and hoping this combo will work with modified 120 std.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> The EXT is not necessary for any application.


Next you'll be telling us monster trucks make horrible commuter cars!

Some people just want 6" of travel with bigger tyres than everyone else!


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

calzonical said:


> Any chance that you could provide measurement and/or pic of clearance between Gnarwhal's and fully compressed fork?
> 
> I'm am leaning toward returning the 120 ext for a 120 std. I also run 29x3.0 Chupas on Arc45 and hoping this combo will work with modified 120 std.











I wish I knew how to figure out this forum software and why it rotates my pictures the wrong way. Here is my 100mm pro/ext with Bud. I know it's not the best angle to see the exact amount of clearance. I'll get you a better one when I'm home.


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

twodownzero said:


> View attachment 1188635
> 
> 
> I wish I knew how to figure out this forum software and why it rotates my pictures the wrong way. Here is my 100mm pro/ext with Bud. I know it's not the best angle to see the exact amount of clearance. I'll get you a better one when I'm home.


I believe he is asking for clearance with no air in the fork and fully compressed but given that you have the EXT there is certainly no reason to believe there isn't tons of clearance.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

calzonical said:


> Any chance that you could provide measurement and/or pic of clearance between Gnarwhal's and fully compressed fork?
> 
> I'm am leaning toward returning the 120 ext for a 120 std. I also run 29x3.0 Chupas on Arc45 and hoping this combo will work with modified 120 std.


I don't have a picture with it compressed, but I have one with it extended, with a scale next to it, the Gnarwhal WILL crash into the standard fork crown when fully compressed, that's why I added one bottom-out spacer to each leg.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> but then that use begs the question of why in the world anyone would run a suspension fork with an XXL...


Why would I want to change the fork when I change the tire? "Who can do more..."


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you say so, but since I have tried it I'm pretty sure a 6" tire with a suspension fork sucks, but then that's just an opinion from an internet cubicle rider 

Mike Curiak told me the same thing I'm now saying, but I didn't believe it until I tried it.

To each their own.



Dougal said:


> Next you'll be telling us monster trucks make horrible commuter cars!
> 
> Some people just want 6" of travel with bigger tyres than everyone else!


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

That's odd, I did the same measurement with a Barbe 27.5 x 4.5, no air, fully compressed the fork, bounced hard with 200# and had 5mm clearance.

I suppose the Gnar 4.5 could be taller, though they share the same casing. Could be the studs too.

Good thing Dougal figured out the trick for adding a travel limiter.



tmbrown said:


> I don't have a picture with it compressed, but I have one with it extended, with a scale next to it, the Gnarwhal WILL crash into the standard fork crown when fully compressed, that's why I added one bottom-out spacer to each leg.
> 
> View attachment 1188641


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Because an EXT adds 20mm in A-C which makes the front end ridiculously high and wacks out the geo.

So running an EXT would mean reducing travel to get the corrent A-C, so now you're running a fork with a 20mm reduction in travel. Say the standard A-C matches a 100mm fork, well now you only get 80mm of travel from your five pound fork.

Yeah, sonds kinda dumb when you run through the numbers 

Adding a travel limiter of 10mm to an STD will cover all current tires and the A-C/travel penalty is only 10mm AND you can always pull out the travel limited and cut your losses.



eFat said:


> Why would I want to change the fork when I change the tire? "Who can do more..."


----------



## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Because an EXT adds 20mm in A-C which makes the front end ridiculously high and wacks out the geo.
> 
> So running an EXT would mean reducing travel to get the corrent A-C, so now you're running a fork with a 20mm reduction in travel. Say the standard A-C matches a 100mm fork, well now you only get 80mm of travel from your five pound fork.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm missing something or I'm just a slow rider, but with the proper sag, a 100mm fork is doing me just fine, and I certainly wouldn't compromise tire clearance for another 20mm of travel in front. Considering I'm riding the tractor of bicycles, another 20mm of travel isn't going to massively increase the enjoyment of the bike.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Like Dougal and couple others note, some folks like having a high front end; mind is not exactly low.

With that in mind, any bike that gets jacked up in the front will have jacked up geo, so high bb, reduced STA and HTA.

It'd make more sense to get a frame designed for the proposed fork A-C or get a fork that maintains some semblance of a normal A-C with the proposed frame.

My Fatillac is designed for a 150mm travel fork, but my Wozo is not. The Wozo with a 140mm Mastodon STD has a reduced angle STA which certainly affects fit and handling. Such is life, next hard tail fatty will be a custom designed for the fork I'm using.



twodownzero said:


> Maybe I'm missing something or I'm just a slow rider, but with the proper sag, a 100mm fork is doing me just fine, and I certainly wouldn't compromise tire clearance for another 20mm of travel in front. Considering I'm riding the tractor of bicycles, another 20mm of travel isn't going to massively increase the enjoyment of the bike.


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> KTM oil leak? I didn't know KTM made mountain bikes
> 
> We lose our housing Sat am, friends are driving back to Denver, so we'll have breakfast in town then head to Klondike or go over to GJ.


They make some nice ones (but I suspect you know that):

https://ktmbikeindustries.com/bikes/mountain/


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> Because an EXT adds 20mm in A-C which makes the front end ridiculously high and wacks out the geo.


Not if the bike is designed for.


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> Because an EXT adds 20mm in A-C which makes the front end ridiculously high and wacks out the geo.
> 
> So running an EXT would mean reducing travel to get the corrent A-C, so now you're running a fork with a 20mm reduction in travel. Say the standard A-C matches a 100mm fork, well now you only get 80mm of travel from your five pound fork.
> 
> ...


+20mm on a 68 degree (or more) head angle bike IMHO is an improvement. But I've actually done that on 2 different bikes so my opinion is probably not worth anything.


----------



## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

KTMNealio said:


> +20mm on a 68 degree (or more) head angle bike IMHO is an improvement. But I've actually done that on 2 different bikes so my opinion is probably not worth anything.


+1 on the ICT got me 67 degrees. AKA, giant trail monster!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> +20mm on a 68 degree (or more) head angle bike IMHO is an improvement. But I've actually done that on 2 different bikes so my opinion is probably not worth anything.


I think NB's point was you are already gaining some A-C compared to the 100mm Bluto spec so pushing that extra 20mm EXT on top of what'd you be already gaining with a 120 Mastodon STD is starting to push things - no less going 140/150... on the EXT that's a whole lot.

Example:

Stock Bluto 100mm = 511
Mastodon EXT 120 = 551

40mm increase...Going to 140 yields 60mm over stock which is a lot. Most ppl would like to see A to C increases come with a relative increase in travel - not just for the sake of extra A to C like it is with the EXT.

^In the context of a Wozo....YMMV

edit: tl;dr -> if you're gaining 20mm A to C better to get some travel out of the deal.


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## calzonical (Aug 30, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> ...So running an EXT would mean reducing travel to get the corrent A-C, so now you're running a fork with a 20mm reduction in travel. Say the standard A-C matches a 100mm fork, well now you only get 80mm of travel from your five pound fork.
> 
> Yeah, sounds kinda dumb when you run through the numbers
> 
> Adding a travel limiter of 10mm to an STD will cover all current tires and the A-C/travel penalty is only 10mm AND you can always pull out the travel limited and cut your losses.


NB, you do have a way with words. But I am going to stick with the 120EXT - and use the "attach pump and adjust A2C method" to achieve the desired height and live with the resulting travel. Having a Tom John repaired elbow I'll take safer plushness over travel. And since this fork is going on my 4th Fatty frame I can not rule out acquiring a fifth Fatty Frame that this fork may work perfectly on at 551mm A2C.


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## wtrmlnsp (Aug 20, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> They work with the non modified STD, but I already mentioned that more than a few times
> 
> I would never get an EXT unless I was running an XXL, but then that use begs the question of why in the world anyone would run a suspension fork with an XXL...
> 
> ...


What's the clearance like with 29 x 3 minions on the std? That's my main summer wheel/tire combo ( on 50 mm mulefuts) and currently with the bluto on hard impacts when I bottom out the fork the tire bulges up top and rubs the bridge. 
I'd like to eliminate the chance of this happening with the mastodon if possible, originally I was gonna get the ext but the more I see you posting that the std is good enough the more i'm starting to lean that way. If I went with the std with the 10 mm spacer trick do you think the 29+ minions would be fine?


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

What about if you want to run the fork at 140mm? Can The standard still can be run at 140mm?


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

bikemad1 said:


> What about if you want to run the fork at 140mm? Can The standard still can be run at 140mm?


Yes, as long as you get the 120 STD version.


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> That's odd, I did the same measurement with a Barbe 27.5 x 4.5, no air, fully compressed the fork, bounced hard with 200# and had 5mm clearance.
> 
> I suppose the Gnar 4.5 could be taller, though they share the same casing. Could be the studs too.
> 
> Good thing Dougal figured out the trick for adding a travel limiter.


Maybe you didn't let all the air out; I know I had to do it twice, to fully compress the fork; the lugs are definitely taller on the Gnar compared to the Barb's, funny you mentioned studs, they left two witness marks on my crown when I fully compressed the fork.


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

Both your experience and Ben's seem to jive - Barbes and Gnars have the same casing but I think the taller lugs of the Gnarwhal + studs would eat up the 5mm clearance Ben saw.

My Gnarwhal runs ~787mm diameter with studs. I also have a 29x3.25 Crux at ~784mm diameter. For tires in this size range adding the 10mm bottom out spacer to the STD would seem prudent, though I'd run tires in the ~760mm range (Minion 26x4.8, Cake Eater 27.5x4) without worrying about it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

It's my special skill 

I'm actually quite a sweetie in person, well, maybe if you're not my wife; I drive her crazy 

The sucky part is that I don't think Mastodon really thought this thing through, so instead of giving us one fork that fits most tires, they split the difference which leaves some folks straddling the fence.

It's shame crown molds are so expensive...



calzonical said:


> NB, you do have a way with words. But I am going to stick with the 120EXT - and use the "attach pump and adjust A2C method" to achieve the desired height and live with the resulting travel. Having a Tom John repaired elbow I'll take safer plushness over travel. And since this fork is going on my 4th Fatty frame I can not rule out acquiring a fifth Fatty Frame that this fork may work perfectly on at 551mm A2C.


----------



## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

At this point I'm pretty sure I know the Mastodon, but sure, anything is possible...

nah, I did it right.

Maybe it's due to you steerer being loose, wahahahaha

No, it's the studs and probably the tire is a tad bigger than a Barbe.

Still, I'd skip the EXT and do the Dougal fix.



tmbrown said:


> Maybe you didn't let all the air out; I know I had to do it twice, to fully compress the fork; the lugs are definitely taller on the Gnar compared to the Barb's, funning you mentioned studs, they left two witness marks on my crown when I fully compressed the fork.
> 
> View attachment 1188938


----------



## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> At this point I'm pretty sure I know the Mastodon, but sure, anything is possible...
> 
> nah, I did it right.
> 
> ...


Speaking of which, that crown and steerer tube look like they have some moving to do. Keep an eye on it though you'll likely feel it clunking mid ride.


----------



## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

How many here have extended it to 140mm? I'm planning on it as mine is fitted to a duallie with 110mm rear travel and I want 't to be able to ride it more aggressively.I don't plan on doing myself as I mechanic like a baboon on crack....


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

JeepRage said:


> Speaking of which, that crown and steerer tube look like they have some moving to do. Keep an eye on it though you'll likely feel it clunking mid ride.


It's fully seated now, I think that picture is after my first ride, and yes I had to stop and tighten my headset mid ride several times&#8230;


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

bikemad1 said:


> How many here have extended it to 140mm? I'm planning on it as mine is fitted to a duallie with 110mm rear travel and I want 't to be able to ride it more aggressively.I don't plan on doing myself as I mechanic like a baboon on crack....


The good thing about the Mas is if you have it extended and don't like it you can lower it back down with just the shock pump. They should all come set at max travel and users can adjust as needed.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

I agree with you, that would take the hassle out of having to remove the lowers to adjust the travel. Maybe the 2019 model may do this....


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

Nurse Ben, or anyone else in the know, is it possible to convert an EXT to STD, or do I just need to sell and buy the whole fork. I wish I'd read this thread before buying my unnecessarily long fork.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

bikedrd said:


> Nurse Ben, or anyone else in the know, is it possible to convert an EXT to STD, or do I just need to sell and buy the whole fork. I wish I'd read this thread before buying my unnecessarily long fork.
> 
> Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk


It is possible to convert by ordering a kit from Manitou. I remember *Nurse Ben* did it for his fork.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I looked into the parts, they are available, price was ~ $100 , but I punted and sold the EXT to buy an STD.

Look on the Manitou website for Manitou suspension rebuilders, they can order the parts for you or do the install.



Mebaru said:


> It is possible to convert by ordering a kit from Manitou. I remember *Nurse Ben* did it for his fork.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

bikedrd;13596554I wish I'd read this thread before buying my unnecessarily long fork.[/QUOTE said:


> I wouldn't despair - this is a not a make or break aspect. Minutia detail that you can work around if the extra 20mm bothers you. Let's say that your perfect sweet spot was the A-C of the STD @ 120mm. Same A-C of the EXT at 100mm. Split the difference and run the EXT at 110. Yeah, you'd be losing 10mm travel and gaining 10mm of height but that should be a very acceptable middle ground unless you are trying to achieve perfection.


----------



## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Looks like you would need a new air spring assembly, and remove two bottom out spacers from the rebound damper and the air spring assembly, both should have one bottom out spacer.

I would call Manitou tech support to verify.


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

Good idea calling them, and thanks for the info, all.

Sent from my KFOT using Tapatalk


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

I've also extended my Pro 120 to 140mm. No problems with the fork like this so far and it wasn't too hard of a job if you are decent with tools and follow directions. No reason not to do it considering you can always lower the fork without changing any parts back.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Weather finally got warm enough, I got around 35 miles on the fork.
First few laps around the neighborhood to tune and adjust, I got 2 loud *pops" and had to take some slack with the preload bolt.
Then the first ride on trails, had one last pop, and again, about a 1/2 turn on the preload.
Last 30 miles everything is tight so the steerer must finally be settled into its resting place.

Really liking the fork, currently at 120mm, feels better than the lefty when reaching full compression.


----------



## Mettis (Jan 14, 2018)

Hi,
Does 4,8x26 Jumbo Jim fit with STD Mastodon 120mm version? Or do I have to buy the EXT 120mm version to get enough tire clearance?

I'm so confused because some say that they fit and Manitous own chart says that I need the ext version.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Mettis said:


> Hi,
> Does 4,8x26 Jumbo Jim fit with STD Mastodon 120mm version? Or do I have to buy the EXT 120mm version to get enough tire clearance?
> 
> I'm so confused because some say that they fit and Manitous own chart says that I need the ext version.


Yes it should clear without an issue.


----------



## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

I have a Mastodon comp Ext 100, can I use the Milo remote lockout kit or is something else needed?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blaster182 said:


> I have a Mastodon comp Ext 100, can I use the Milo remote lockout kit or is something else needed?


Yes. Comp forks have ABS+ dampers which fits the MILO ABS+ lockout (picture in link): https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/milo-remote-lockout-kit-manitou.html

There is another MILO kit for the Kwik Toggle damper, you don't want that one as it doesn't have the cable spool and cable stop for the ABS+.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

A nice review here: https://www.rowanhick.com/2018/04/01/manitou-mastodon-review


----------



## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Nice review!
I recently got a Kona Wozo with a Bluto that I immediately swapped for a Mastodon. While trying to compress the forks, the Bluto felt like it was not lubricated compared to the Mastodon...


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

tmbrown said:


> View attachment 1189271


I thought someone had posted that 140mm was max months ago on the EXT. But according to this I can run 150mm of travel on the EXT?


----------



## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

KTMNealio said:


> I thought someone had posted that 140mm was max months ago on the EXT. But according to this I can run 150mm of travel on the EXT?


What model do you have? This chart says 140mm max Comp, 150mm max Pro.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Dougal said:


> Yes. Comp forks have ABS+ dampers which fits the MILO ABS+ lockout (picture in link): https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/milo-remote-lockout-kit-manitou.html
> 
> There is another MILO kit for the Kwik Toggle damper, you don't want that one as it doesn't have the cable spool and cable stop for the ABS+.


Thank you very much Dougal! :thumbsup:


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KTMNealio said:


> I thought someone had posted that 140mm was max months ago on the EXT. But according to this I can run 150mm of travel on the EXT?


The 150 EXT is a special build fork. I think it has longer stanchions than the usual EXT but I haven't seen one in the flesh and possibly never will.


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## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

JeepRage said:


> What model do you have? This chart says 140mm max Comp, 150mm max Pro.


Sorry, Pro


----------



## KTMNealio (Jun 17, 2016)

Dougal said:


> The 150 EXT is a special build fork. I think it has longer stanchions than the usual EXT but I haven't seen one in the flesh and possibly never will.


Ok, thanks for the clarification Dougal.


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## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

I don't know if anybody has an answer to this, but here's my question:

What effect does shortening the travel via the 'pump trick' have on the fork performance? I'm thinking in terms of the air spring curve etc. Small bump sensitivity, mid stroke support, ramp up and bottom out, etc. etc. etc. Is it a viable long term solution? 

I've temporarily reduced my 120 Pro EXT to 100mm using the pump trick. Improves the geometry of my bike and seems to ride around just fine on snow covered trails (still very snowy around here) but I haven't been able to test it on rocks, roots, drops etc. So not really a fair test. However it does confirm that my bike rides much better with a 531mm fork instead of a 551mm fork. 

I'm considering ordering a STD air spring and converting from EXT so as to permanently lower the overall fork length, or just continuing to ride around using the pump trick. Any thoughts, experiences or suggestions?


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

I have a Mastodon comp with a rebound that went from quite fast to really fast when turning the knob... so I decided to check if something was wrong with the rebound assembly. I found that there was a clamp shim between the flat face of the piston and the first shim creating a gap and allowing oil to flow almost unrestricted! I would like to know how the shimstack is intended to be.

Here are the shims I had starting from the piston: 
Clamp shim
Thin shim
Clamp shim
Thick shim
Clamp shim
(Both the thick and thin shims have the same diameter and are large enough to cover the ports)


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

HappyMTB.fr said:


> I have a Mastodon comp with a rebound that went from quite fast to really fast when turning the knob... so I decided to check if something was wrong with the rebound assembly. I found that there was a clamp shim between the flat face of the piston and the first shim creating a gap and allowing oil to flow almost unrestricted! I would like to know how the shimstack is intended to be.
> 
> Here are the shims I had starting from the piston:
> Clamp shim
> ...


Thinking It might be faster response to get with tech support - [email protected]
they are pretty fast to respond less than a business day


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Damn I had entire essay written out to ask you guys thoughts... and it was destroyed by AutoSave... GRRR will have to write down some other time..


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks Maxmitry, they were indeed quick to reply!








The picture above shows my shimstack and the picture below shows the stack according to the drawings. 
They are identical...!







Dougal had confirmed the above stack to me too.

I still don't get why there is a clamp shim between the flat piston and the first large OD shim? It allows quite a large free bleed and felt like very little rebound damping when riding. Further the rebound knob had almost no effect...
Anyhow, I moved all the clamp shims up and have now a usable range with the rebound knob.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

anyone has a spare decal kit?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

That is indeed how the drawings show it. I'll ask the Engineers what's going on.

I haven't yet seen a Mastodon Comp in the metal. Only Mastodon Pro's.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Hi Guys, I have read the Entire Thread which threw me head into some mind boggling decisions decisions... But I love the fact that all of you Praise this fork! I have had a Pike for a little bit and it was Soo Good but you guys say this is much Much Better.

I'm currently decided to get a Mastodon Comp STD but I have a critical question about A-to-C and head angles stuff...
My bike is currently a 2015 Norco Bigfoot 6.2, in the summer I run 29+3.0 tires, in the winter I'd like to run Bud and Lou with Thick Ghetto Studs.

The Original rigid Fork is 455mm in length, currently I'm on CC EC44/40 which adds 12mm to stack height + Lauf Carbonara (495mm A-to-C) so I'm already at +52mm - this Does Ride Fine(no HS spacers) except - the Lauf is Really short travel and really bouncy and I sometimes like to enjoy a Rock Garden... but this is impossible. Then again Really good at the small stuff + 2 Great points: 0 maintenance and 1.1KG weight.

I see More Economical/Practical sense to buy the COMP STD 120mm - versatile travel maybe will extend to 140mm (or some one said up to 150mm).
Tech support suggested that with SAG(20%) During the ride I would get 495mm A-to-C on the 100mm EXT COMP Set Lowered to 80mm.
Considering the STD Comp is 20mm shorter A-to-C I can manage the same A-to-C with SAG on 100mm STD Comp (not lowered) - but looks like will need to make sure the fork is not touching the tires at full compression.

Now here are the thoughts I wanted a second Take on:
1. If I get the 100mm STD COMP - will I need to put stoppers to prevent the BUD+studs from reaching the fork at full compression? can it be done without any specific tools.
2. Is there any way to lower the 120 STD COMP? or reduce Ride height - don't want to go too too much higher than needed.
3. Will all the tools(or a mattoc kit) + oil + ETC will be required in order to run 29+/26x4.85(studded BUD)

I'm some what handy, but i did try to take apart a pike uturn air and service it and didn't really work out tooo tooo well... not sure how much more complicated this would be.

Ahead of time I want to thank you all for the great thread!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

So about that gap shim in the Mastodon Comp rebound damper. I have official word back from the Engineers.

It's there for extra flow in very cold weather to stop the rebound getting too slow. If you're fat-biking above zero then feel free to remove it.

The average fork oil gets over 5x thicker from 40C down to 0C. So it's difficult to tune for both.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Dougal said:


> So about that gap shim in the Mastodon Comp rebound damper. I have official word back from the Engineers.
> 
> It's there for extra flow in very cold weather to stop the rebound getting too slow. If you're fat-biking above zero then feel free to remove it.
> 
> The average fork oil gets over 5x thicker from 40C down to 0C. So it's difficult to tune for both.


Many thanks Dougal!
I will rearrange the stack while switching to Supergliss in the lower


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

madmitry said:


> Hi Guys, I have read the Entire Thread which threw me head into some mind boggling decisions decisions... But I love the fact that all of you Praise this fork! I have had a Pike for a little bit and it was Soo Good but you guys say this is much Much Better.
> 
> I'm currently decided to get a Mastodon Comp STD but I have a critical question about A-to-C and head angles stuff...
> My bike is currently a 2015 Norco Bigfoot 6.2, in the summer I run 29+3.0 tires, in the winter I'd like to run Bud and Lou with Thick Ghetto Studs.
> ...


Always get the longer fork, you can reduce height and travel with top-out spacers in the air-side.

You need to check the inflated OD of all those tyres to see how much clearance they'll have and how many bottom-out spacers you may or may not need to run to stop them buzzing the crown at full compression.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Dougal said:


> Always get the longer fork, you can reduce height and travel with top-out spacers in the air-side.
> 
> You need to check the inflated OD of all those tyres to see how much clearance they'll have and how many bottom-out spacers you may or may not need to run to stop them buzzing the crown at full compression.


Thanks Dougal.. IS it difficult to reduce travel?
my outside diameters are 75.57cm(bud) and 76.2cm(29+)
per site its min distance to crown 26mm, max OD 758mm

Is it difficult to put in the bottom out spacers (looks like I'm 6.3mm apart between the two tires I think I'll keep one consistent setup)?


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

madmitry said:


> Thanks Dougal.. IS it difficult to reduce travel?
> my outside diameters are 75.57cm(bud) and 76.2cm(29+)
> per site its min distance to crown 26mm, max OD 758mm
> 
> Is it difficult to put in the bottom out spacers (looks like I'm 6.3mm apart between the two tires I think I'll keep one consistent setup)?






 at the beginning they show how to adjust the spacers is that what you meant? so what would be a procedure to make it shorter (if needed)?
and where to put the bottom out spacers?

thanks!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

madmitry said:


> at the beginning they show how to adjust the spacers is that what you meant? so what would be a procedure to make it shorter (if needed)?
> and where to put the bottom out spacers?
> 
> thanks!


https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf

Top-out spacers are under the air piston (inside the stanchion) they reduce fork length and travel.

Bottom out spacers are under the stanchions (inside the lower legs) and reduce fork travel while increasing tyre clearance.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Dougal said:


> https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf
> 
> Top-out spacers are under the air piston (inside the stanchion) they reduce fork length and travel.
> 
> Bottom out spacers are under the stanchions (inside the lower legs) and reduce fork travel while increasing tyre clearance.


This looks like I'll need the Mattoc Toolkit, would I need Grease? Oil? and torque wrench?

And would include removing the Lowers Am I correct in this?

Kind of like here: 




So basically taking the Mastodon Comp STD Spacer Guide
the 120mm comes with 1 bottom out spacer (P/N - 121-29113) in order to decrease travel I would need to put in 1(total of 2) Spacer to increase bottom out clearance by 10mm - thus reducing the travel by 10mm right?

For Top-out Spacers Mastodon Comp STD Spacer Guide
the 120mm comes with 3 Top-out spacers (same P/N) and if I need to reduce Travel I'll need to put 1(total of 4) more spacer in 10mm Increments?

Thanks! Especially for your Patience!
I know you have said it probably a few times, I'm just trying to reiterate so that I fully understand...


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## david.p (Apr 11, 2011)

See this post for a step by step on accessing the air and rebound shafts to change the travel:
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/manitou-mastodon-1039416-9.html#post13427786

The Mattoc tool kit is worthwhile and makes this easy. Everything else needed is spelled out steps called out from the manuals.

Note that, unlike the Pro, the Comp air and rebound shafts have different diameters so the spacers are not interchangeable between the shafts. If you are intending to reduce travel by 10mm you'll need one spacer for each shaft.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

david.p said:


> See this post for a step by step on accessing the air and rebound shafts to change the travel:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/manitou-mastodon-1039416-9.html#post13427786
> 
> The Mattoc tool kit is worthwhile and makes this easy. Everything else needed is spelled out steps called out from the manuals.
> ...


I now have a decent supply of the 10mm thick spacers for 10mm diameter air-shafts: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/travel-spacer-10-mm-thick-10-mm-shaft-manitou.html
Also the 10mm thick spacers for 12.7mm diameter Comp damper shafts: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/travel...-offset-centre-for-12-7-mm-shaft-manitou.html

I don't yet have a good supply of the 10mm thick spacers for 10mm diameter Pro damper shafts. I just need the individual part number which I should have in a week or so.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

anyone has a spare decal kit can let me have it?


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## Xeretic (Nov 7, 2015)

I'm about to purchase the Pro EXT version. Do both 100 mm and 120 mm come with equal amount of damper and spring side spacers with the fork? Or should I prefer either 100 or 120 version to get the most amount of spacers that come with the fork from factory?

Отправлено с моего SM-G955F через Tapatalk


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

madmitry said:


> Hi Guys... in the summer I run 29+3.0 tires, in the winter I'd like to run Bud and Lou with Thick Ghetto Studs.


The Bud on my Mastodon Pro without studs will rub the underside of the crown just a wee bit on really hard landings/bumps. I'm 6'4" tall, 240lbs and can shift alot of weight to the fork so as suggested in this post somewhere I re-arranged the spacers in the IVA so that the fork is more progressive and prevents the tire from hitting the crown as often or as hard. It can still touch it, just not very violently.

The 120mm fork comes with 4 spacers on the IVA, three under and one above. With the Bud on I like one under and three above, then run 10-15psi less than in the fork. With smaller tires running two under, two above is also very nice.

It should take about 1 minute to adjust the IVA so it's worth trying out.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

Troy Carter said:


> The Bud on my Mastodon Pro without studs will rub the underside of the crown just a wee bit on really hard landings/bumps. I'm 6'4" tall, 240lbs and can shift alot of weight to the fork so as suggested in this post somewhere I re-arranged the spacers in the IVA so that the fork is more progressive and prevents the tire from hitting the crown as often or as hard. It can still touch it, just not very violently.
> 
> The 120mm fork comes with 4 spacers on the IVA, three under and one above. With the Bud on I like one under and three above, then run 10-15psi less than in the fork. With smaller tires running two under, two above is also very nice.
> 
> It should take about 1 minute to adjust the IVA so it's worth trying out.


The better solution in this case would be to put some spacers(metal washers) under the rubber bump stop


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

rcracer2 said:


> The better solution in this case would be to put some spacers(metal washers) under the rubber bump stop


Dude, you don't need to go Further Than this page to see that you are NOT correct. Please read Below


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

madmitry said:


> Dude, you don't need to go Further Than this page to see that you are NOT correct. Please read Below


I don't think you understand; if you only need a few mm of clearance you can install smaller spacers than the big ones under the compression stop rather than a 10mm change or whatever. Changing to a more progressive air curve will help but tire clearance issues to the crown should be handled by the rubber bump stop. What happens when the temp drops 40deg and the tire slams the crown because sag wasn't reset for the temp?


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

rcracer2 said:


> The better solution in this case would be to put some spacers(metal washers) under the rubber bump stop


This could possibly create a bit more clearance but it's not something I looked into at all.

At my size I could blow through the stock IVA position pretty easily. So it's not that i was strictly trying to keep the tire from hitting but more trying to tune the fork for what I wanted with the side effect of the tire hitting far less often or aggressively. Luckily, they were nice enough to include the IVA just for my primary purpose.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Reply #1308 from the PRO:
https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...ange-Guide.pdf

Top-out spacers are under the air piston (inside the stanchion) they reduce fork length and travel.

Bottom out spacers are under the stanchions (inside the lower legs) and reduce fork travel while increasing tyre clearance.


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## Troy Carter (Dec 7, 2016)

rcracer2 said:


> I don't think you understand; if you only need a few mm of clearance you can install smaller spacers than the big ones under the compression stop rather than a 10mm change or whatever. Changing to a more progressive air curve will help but tire clearance issues to the crown should be handled by the rubber bump stop. What happens when the temp drops 40deg and the tire slams the crown because sag wasn't reset for the temp?


I'm not taking my Bud out when it's that cold, only down to maybe -10f for me and it worked well enough for me in those conditions with the sag set in the cold. Just a light rub...I'll live with that.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Is there a way to get the 8mm thin wall socket without buying the whole tool kit? Want to drop the lowers, check the oil. Lots of stiction...

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Rangie (Jan 17, 2015)

In case anyone with a Sasquatch is wondering, the crown and knobs clear no problem on a size large frame.

I'm only one ride in, but ho-lee-chit! I cannot believe how much better the bike feels compared to the Bluto. All I did was set sag, put the rebound knob in the middle and left everything else wide open. The front wheel sticks to the ground and goes where you point it. Feels like cheating.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Rangie said:


> In case anyone with a Sasquatch is wondering, the crown and knobs clear no problem on a size large frame.
> 
> I'm only one ride in, but ho-lee-chit! I cannot believe how much better the bike feels compared to the Bluto. All I did was set sag, put the rebound knob in the middle and left everything else wide open. The front wheel sticks to the ground and goes where you point it. Feels like cheating.


NOOiiiCE!!!, i just got mine in the mail, 120 STD Comp, With remote lockout, tax in, shipped from australia 600CAD (15% off of ebay was applied they had like 1 day off everything) hoping to fit it tonight on a Bigfoot


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

compengr said:


> Is there a way to get the 8mm thin wall socket without buying the whole tool kit? Want to drop the lowers, check the oil. Lots of stiction...
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I sell them: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/modified-8-mm-socket-to-fit-manitou-mattoc-magnum-2015-later.html

Alternatively you can make your own if you have access to a lathe.


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

Anyone know if the Quarq Shockwiz can be used w Mastodon?

Doesn’t the fork allow the lowers to be moved up and down by hand when a pump is threaded onto the schrader valve?


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

It will only work if you use an IRT without its IFP as a top cap


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks HappyMTB.fr!!!!!!!


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## Thaumaturge (Feb 25, 2006)

Just had my first ride with a Pro STD at 100mm on my Suzi Q last night. Wicked fork! Might be coming back here for some tuning advice though. Bottom out was pretty harsh, which I’m going to try to fix with a volume spacer today. Compared to the rigid carbon fork, ... there is no comparison. I don’t even mind the weight for the gain in comfort.


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## Thaumaturge (Feb 25, 2006)

Well that didn’t go the way I expected. Apparently those extra spacers that come with the fork do not function like bottomless tokens. Ended up adding 10 PSI, which appears to have taken the harshness out.


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## BigBran (Mar 8, 2008)

I have a suspension corrected frame designed for a 100mm shock. Can I keep the same A to C but use the 100mm EXT version to fit a 29+ Wheel? And how would I set that up. From reading this thread the EXT really makes it 120mm. I want it to be at 100 I believe.


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

BigBran said:


> I have a suspension corrected frame designed for a 100mm shock. Can I keep the same A to C but use the 100mm EXT version to fit a 29+ Wheel? And how would I set that up. From reading this thread the EXT really makes it 120mm. I want it to be at 100 I believe.


I would go with the 120 EXT version, and adjust with the air pump attached to lower height to what you want, accounting for Sag. If 100mm is good, then you are all set. If you want you can experiment in seconds at 110, 120, 90, etc.

I think you need EXT for the 29+ clearance, but I don't run them.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

JeepRage said:


> I would go with the 120 EXT version, and adjust with the air pump attached to lower height to what you want, accounting for Sag. If 100mm is good, then you are all set. If you want you can experiment in seconds at 110, 120, 90, etc.
> 
> I think you need EXT for the 29+ clearance, but I don't run them.


I got my 120 STD COMP - I am running 29+ 3.0" (https://www.veetireco.com/listings/plus-size-t-fatty/) on 50mm Rims and I haven't changed the top/out buttom out spacesrs at all, I have removed all air and fully compressed the fork still not even close to touching, the fork fully compressed has about an inch worth of space between the tire and the Crown.

I'm Due for a write up but no time 
The fork is Great!


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## BigBran (Mar 8, 2008)

Won’t the 120mm alter the geometry if my frame is suspension corrected for a 100mm shock?


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

BigBran said:


> Won't the 120mm alter the geometry if my frame is suspension corrected for a 100mm shock?


Adding suspension to any rigid bike alters its geometry as the suspension cycles. The primary concern about going longer is breaking the frame more than slackening it too much.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

anybody rebuild one of these suckers yet? I have two, and one has some miles on it...


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

BigBran said:


> Won't the 120mm alter the geometry if my frame is suspension corrected for a 100mm shock?


technically yes, but I went with 120mm STD (which is shorther height then the EXT), and I dont feel the difference.

Mind you- there is an Easy suspension travel adjustment trick - when the shock pump is connected you are suppose to pump it when the fork is fully extended, however if you compress it say to 100mm and pump - it will fill both negative and positive chambers - it will stay in the travel as is - so you basically can very easily reduce it.
I have seen people on this forum do that for 20mm, I was able to do it for 30mm (from 120 to 90) however I didn't ride like that and wouldn't know the Repercussion of that.

All this without doing anything else but changing the spacing on the IVA, as I am about just under 200lb with gear. and the fork feels Good and doesn't seem to be bottoming out (not too aggressive - yet=)


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Added one of these forks (120 Pro, standard length) to my Voytek-the stock carbon fork is really stiff and my aging back just couldn't take the pounding anymore! I've only had one ride on it but I'm really impressed with it's quality and performance so far. And thanks to the good info in this thread I was able to get it set up pretty well right off the bat. So thanks for that, folks. The red decals will probably go pretty soon:


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Yeah I had to pull the big decals off mine


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## _rich_ (Jan 22, 2004)

*Blizzard -50 and Mastodon Pro*

I bumped the travel to 140mm, then installed my Mastodon Pro onto my medium Rocky Mountain Blizzard -50.
I was worried the crown was going to hit the downtube but it just fit(like 1/16" clearance).
I can't wait to try it in the snow.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

Aresab said:


> This may not be the exact situation, but I have had something similar happen. I have 2 Jamis XCT3 Carbon 26ers from 2011. It was my main ride at the time and is now my sons and the other now my gravel bike. On the one that saw more use I had a constant problem with the headset loosening up and racked my brains like the OP. I could put fingernail in-between the gap of the headset top bearing cover and the frame (IS headset) and I had no rubbing on the cap, but the loosening persisted. I read in a prior post on MTBR that although I thought there was enough gap between the bearing cap and the bearing/frame interface there was not. I bought FSA micro-spacers and 2 .25mm on just under the bearing cap. The problem has been gone for over 2 years with no other changes. If you exhaust all other resources, that may work. Here is a link to them:
> 
> FSA Headset Microspacers | Jenson USA


I need one of these to prevent my topcap from rubbing on the headset. The steerer tube on the Mastadon is 1.5, and the link above is 1-1/8".... Out of luck or am I understanding something wrong?


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## _rich_ (Jan 22, 2004)

...


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

These go above the top bearing, which is 1-1/8".

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Jester7677 said:


> I need one of these to prevent my topcap from rubbing on the headset. The steerer tube on the Mastadon is 1.5, and the link above is 1-1/8".... Out of luck or am I understanding something wrong?


Yes, that was the issue I had too, top cap rub causing a loose feeling headset. I placed mine above the compression ring which goes into the bearing and below my top cap. Without them the top cap bottomed out on the headset (carbon in my case because the headset is molded). The won't help if you have are rubbing on the lower cup.

I'm also experiencing the headset loose after the first ride or two. I understand it will stop after a bit and that's not related to my other bike needing the micro-spacers.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

Aresab said:


> Yes, that was the issue I had too, top cap rub causing a loose feeling headset. I placed mine above the compression ring which goes into the bearing and below my top cap. Without them the top cap bottomed out on the headset (carbon in my case because the headset is molded). The won't help if you have are rubbing on the lower cup.
> 
> I'm also experiencing the headset loose after the first ride or two. I understand it will stop after a bit and that's not related to my other bike needing the micro-spacers.


Thank you guys I'll try this.

Without it I get creaking when I pull up or push down on one side of the handlebar, or the other. Becomes an issue on climbs most noticeably. It drives me mad. It's only started after a few rides and tightening efforts to remove the looseness, which isn't and issue now.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

It has a tapered steerer. 1.5" is the bottom diameter. 1-1/8" is the top. Spacers go up top, so you need 1-1/8" spacers.


Jester7677 said:


> Well the mastodon has a 1.5" steerer and I need the .25mm spacer, as you described. Is there such a spacer, I can't seem to find one.
> 
> Without it I get creaking when I pull up or push down on one side of the handlebar, or the other. Becomes an issue on climbs most noticeably. It drives me mad. It's only started after a few rides and tightening efforts to remove the looseness, which isn't and issue now.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

compengr said:


> It has a tapered steerer. 1.5" is the bottom diameter. 1-1/8" is the top. Spacers go up top, so you need 1-1/8" spacers.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


I apologize, I didn't see your response and fixed my post. Many thanks, and if it works, my sanity will thank you too.


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## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

No worries. I hope it works out.


Jester7677 said:


> I apologize, I didn't see your response and fixed my post. Many thanks, and if it works, my sanity will thank you too.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

Rodney said:


> anybody rebuild one of these suckers yet? I have two, and one has some miles on it...


Yes.
Just tore down my 120 PRO and extended travel to 150.
Completely disassembled the air spring= took everything apart and off-split the shaft/removed all seals, o-rings, spring underneath the piston and inspected. Everything looked shiny and new after a year + of riding. So, just lubed and put it back together minus the spacers required for the 150 conversion. 
Similar story for the damper side, everything looked fresh so just put it back together. 
Didn't bother to change fork seals since I change those every other lower leg bath service and they were recently done.
Fork appears bulletproof for the most part, but when real work is needed, it is easy/simple to tear down and rebuild.
Put several post tear down miles on it today at 150 travel and all is well.


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## tyriverag (Jan 22, 2014)

The 2019 Trek Farley 7 is specced with an 80mm Mastodon fork. But I see that the forks come in 100mm (adjustable to 80mm) or 120mm (adjustable to 140mm). 

The fork is the 100mm, just adjusted down to 80mm, right? Or you think it is a 80mm just made for Trek?

Thanks!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Anyone have issues with a clicking from the steer tube interface?

I didn't want to post anything until I had a chance to verify that it wasn't my headset or anything like that.

I took all the spacers off (so it was loose in the frame) and it clicks. I put on a spare handlebar/stem from another bike, it clicks. Lastly I removed the wheel, & it clicks. So I'm left with the steer tube pressed into the uppers.

Here are video's:
Fork is loose in the frame for testing to isolate from headset:





Spare stem & handlebar:





Wheel removed to ensure it wasn't the axle etc:





Anyone have this issue?

I did have the issue where the steer tube wasn't pressed all the way into the uppers that a few others had.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

Hey, not sure quite clicking like that but I do have an issue where its somehow loose in the headset---and I have tightented it down before and its still loose - didn't get to disassemble it yet...
Its loose in a sense when doing a wheelie (wanted to get that skill) coming down i hear a click(something moves) and the steerer Tube actually rubs on the inside with the frame so turning goes kinda hard - and when I brake with the front wheel it lets go and its all normal again.
Had a Carbonara and the regular steel fork and didn't have that issue, I only started noticing after a while... maybe this weekend I'll get the time to take a look into it..
I'll check if its clicking like yours as well.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Any chance someone could point me to where I can find the basics for adjusting this fork so I don't have to read 1,500 posts? 

I was following this thread last year then decided not to get one. Then a Comp fell into my lap and I bought it. It's from the Farley I was told. 

It's installed on the bike but likely adjusted for a guy about 50 pounds lighter than me. 

Thanks.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Jeff_G said:


> Any chance someone could point me to where I can find the basics for adjusting this fork so I don't have to read 1,500 posts?
> 
> I was following this thread last year then decided not to get one. Then a Comp fell into my lap and I bought it. It's from the Farley I was told.
> 
> ...


All I could find for my Comp is this - I'm assuming for the Comp you ignore the High Speed adjustment info.









http://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/45-35283-Mastodon-Setup-Guide.pdf


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

Excellent. Thank You.


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## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I've got some work to do on set up/riding ability. Rode some single track that I've ridden many times and "crashed" twice. One time hurt. Still hurts. 

I don't get the "pop' with a pedal stroke like I did. So I didn't make it a up a short steep uphill I've done 100 times. Went back down backwards and fell on my back. 

The front also dives a bit more . So planting the front end in a downhill technical feature (rock garden) almost put me over the bars more than once. 

But, the fast sections and drops were way better, I was clearly moving faster and my wrists, hands and neck instantly said "thanks for buying this shock".


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

If that’s the case, bottom all the way counter clockwise (maybe 1-2) clockwise, tops the same except the levered one, one click clockwise. IMO of course. It’s how I have it.


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Jeff_G said:


> The front also dives a bit more . So planting the front end in a downhill technical feature (rock garden) almost put me over the bars more than once.
> .


Does that feel excessive or just new to you?

What travel is the fork? Was it changed from stock?

But you might want to check your IVA settings.

Also take note of your negative air chamber - attached your shock pump fully - pull up. Did it move?

From Manual:

https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf

"All Mastodon assemblies are equipped with incremental volume adjust (IVA) air spring volume may
be adjusted by moving the piston up or down to modify the ramp-up of the air spring. If the travel
is adjusted, the IVA piston height should also be adjusted to maintain the air spring rate. Factory
settings are shown below.
Before modifying travel, confirm that leg length (shown below) matches the leg length of the
desired travel setting. Measured leg length may vary slightly due to manufacturing Tolerances and
measurement method.

FAILURE TO USE THE CORRECT CSA FOR A GIVEN TRAVEL MAY CAUSE STRUCTURAL DAMAGE TO THE FORK
AND RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY TO THE RIDER.

MAstodon iva & guide
TRAVEL, PRO/COMP (mm) 100 120 140 150
SPACERS ABOVE PISTON 2 1 0 0
SPACERS BELOW PISTON 2 3 4 4


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jeff_G said:


> Any chance someone could point me to where I can find the basics for adjusting this fork so I don't have to read 1,500 posts?
> 
> I was following this thread last year then decided not to get one. Then a Comp fell into my lap and I bought it. It's from the Farley I was told.
> 
> ...


One page setup guide here: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide

In 10 minutes or so that'll get you with ballpark air pressure, rebound and compression settings.


----------



## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Asking for a friend.. No, I have XL Beargrease (the one with 177 mm rear) and I'm wondering if Mastodon does clear the frame?

Another thing I'm trying to decide is 100 or 120 travel. Looking at the STD Pro models. 120 would have more A2C than recommended but it's a strong frame 


Sent from my E5823 using Tapatalk


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Well i have a couple e-mails into Worldwide Cyclery so hopefully they will let me know if they can warranty this.
Clicking while I ride is driving me crazy.


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## madmitry (Apr 25, 2018)

@shark - I got no clicking.
I had an issue where my 2015 Norco Bigfoot 6.2 +CC tapered adapter wasn't too compatible with fork/frame.
I have installed it in summer and had a Carbonara in it with no issues what so ever
then installed Mastodon and it was rubbing between the cups in the frame like crazy... I had to Dremmel a hell of a lot of the insides to make sure it doesn't rub any more... today first ride since - its finally fully fitting and great.

@edu2 - I would go with 120mm as it can be made int 140mm, while 100mm can only be set to 80mm. Also a trick - can change the travel with shock pump (although limited - easy 20mm adjustment - i tried and went to 100mm no issues didn't ride like that much though)
connect shock pump, drain air, compress or extend to desired length - limited by what your travel is set to, pump air back in that position - travel will stay there.

@Jeff_G/@Jester7677 - I have had similar situation - i have drained air with shock pump, unscrewed IVA top from left side - moved one token(dont quite remember which way=) and repumped air - the fork has become much more progressive, more resistant it feels like it got more air but PSI/travel length stays the same but just much more progressive for the weight.


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

All, appreciate the input but I've been too busy to work on the bike. I did adjust and added a bit more air. The changes coupled with one ride's experience made it feel more comfortable. 

Lot's of playing around to do yet.


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

I just pulled the trigger. Pro 120 STD from 365 Cycles for $612 shipped.

I ride mild stuff, so I will be able to work with 100mm of travel and set this up to run 29+.

One question: are the spacers that are needed to go in at the bottom to achieve the above included, or are is it a part that I need to buy separately? 

Thx


----------



## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

BlueCheesehead said:


> I just pulled the trigger. Pro 120 STD from 365 Cycles for $612 shipped.
> 
> I ride mild stuff, so I will be able to work with 100mm of travel and set this up to run 29+.
> 
> ...


On the Pro model they are all the same spacers and a couple are included.


----------



## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

Shark said:


> Anyone have issues with a clicking from the steer tube interface?
> 
> I didn't want to post anything until I had a chance to verify that it wasn't my headset or anything like that.
> 
> ...


I have it now; not nearly that bad. Torque the IVA cap and damper cap, those hold the stanchions tight. After that there's Loctite 609 and or 290. I'm going with 290 first since it's wicking Type.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

rcracer2 said:


> I have it now; not nearly that bad. Torque the IVA cap and damper cap, those hold the stanchions tight. After that there's Loctite 609 and or 290. I'm going with 290 first since it's wicking Type.


Sweet Baby Jesus On A Bicycle!
The caps DO NOT keep the stanchions tight!
There is no reason to put Locktite on the caps


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

so i'm looking for a fork for my Farley 9.6 to run 29+ and 27.5 x 4.5

I have read this thread numerous times, from what i have determined, i'm better off going with the standard length and moving spacers around. 

I should also be getting a 120 fork (which can be lengthened or shortened to 100) rather than the 100 which can only be shortened to 80). 

I'm looking at the Pro model, standard length, 120 travel. 

Anyone running this on a Farley?

thanks


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Swerny said:


> so i'm looking for a fork for my Farley 9.6 to run 29+ and 27.5 x 4.5
> 
> I have read this thread numerous times, from what i have determined, i'm better off going with the standard length and moving spacers around.
> 
> ...


No on the Farley, but you have reached the same conclusion I did. In my case I am having to change from 160 to 180mm discs.


----------



## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Swerny said:


> so i'm looking for a fork for my Farley 9.6 to run 29+ and 27.5 x 4.5
> 
> I have read this thread numerous times, from what i have determined, i'm better off going with the standard length and moving spacers around.
> 
> ...


Yeah the pro standard 120mm, on my Farley 9.6, you'll need to use a crown spacer, or the knobs will crash into your downtube, if you're running the 4.5 Gnarwhals with studs, you should add a bottom out spacer also. 
I find that about 100mm to 110mm of travel works best for me on tight technical trails.

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/manitou-mastodon-1039416-13.html#post13565496


----------



## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

Swerny said:


> I should also be getting a 120 fork (which can be lengthened or shortened to 100) rather than the 100 which can only be shortened to 80).
> thanks


I've checked with Manitou. The 120 cannot be shortened to 100 unless you purchase additional parts (crown steerer assembly).

You can add spacers that limit travel, but then you'd have the same A2C measure as the 120mm fork but you'd only be using 100mm. So basically you'd still have a 120mm length fork.

All depends on what you need to achieve.


----------



## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

CanmoreBruce said:


> I've checked with Manitou. The 120 cannot be shortened to 100 unless you purchase additional parts (crown steerer assembly).
> 
> You can add spacers that limit travel, but then you'd have the same A2C measure as the 120mm fork but you'd only be using 100mm. So basically you'd still have a 120mm length fork.
> 
> All depends on what you need to achieve.


This isn't accurate. Myself and many others have reduced travel to 100 simply by attaching fork pump and compressing to desired height and disconnecting. No parts needed.


----------



## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

Yes, you can do that as well. I do it myself. You could make it effectively less than 100m as well using the pump trick.

But if you actually want to convert a 120mm to a 100mm fork you require additional parts. Accurate or not, here is what Manitou themselves say. Not me.

"The fork will gain or shorten in length with every 10mm travel spacer that you add or remove. See travel change info here, https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conte..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf

Note, to lower travel below 120 you would need to replace the CSA, part numbers shown in the exploded views."


----------



## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

JeepRage said:


> This isn't accurate. Myself and many others have reduced travel to 100 simply by attaching fork pump and compressing to desired height and disconnecting. No parts needed.


I talked to Manitou tech about this and they said that using the pump to do this adversely affects the upper and lower chamber performance. They totally discouraged me from using this "technique." If it works for you, that's fine, but the tech on the phone jumped all over me when I mentioned it...


----------



## bpd131 (Oct 26, 2010)

CanmoreBruce said:


> I've checked with Manitou. The 120 cannot be shortened to 100 unless you purchase additional parts (crown steerer assembly).
> 
> You can add spacers that limit travel, but then you'd have the same A2C measure as the 120mm fork but you'd only be using 100mm. So basically you'd still have a 120mm length fork.
> 
> All depends on what you need to achieve.


There are ways to do what you are intending. You would have to adjust the bottom spacers as well, including the damper side. It's a matter of adding spacers and moving some from top to bottom.

I customized mine. I actually mine running at 127mm without raising the BB height to much by being creative. If you take it apart and understand how the spacers are working, you can do whatever you need to, with out changing CSU.


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Mine is being sent in for some type of repair to fix the clicking....
I guess they fat tires are coming out early!


----------



## LurkerJono (May 15, 2016)

*Does the Mastodon fit the carbon speed CS-001? Yes!*

Hi,

If anyone wants to know the Mastodon does fit the CS-001 the answer is yes. See pictures below ->


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

tmbrown said:


> Yeah the pro standard 120mm, on my Farley 9.6, you'll need to use a crown spacer, or the knobs will crash into your downtube, if you're running the 4.5 Gnarwhals with studs, you should add a bottom out spacer also.
> I find that about 100mm to 110mm of travel works best for me on tight technical trails.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/manitou-mastodon-1039416-13.html#post13565496
> ...


Thanks, what size frame is that?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

CanmoreBruce said:


> I've checked with Manitou. The 120 cannot be shortened to 100 unless you purchase additional parts (crown steerer assembly).
> 
> You can add spacers that limit travel, but then you'd have the same A2C measure as the 120mm fork but you'd only be using 100mm. So basically you'd still have a 120mm length fork.
> 
> All depends on what you need to achieve.


The additional parts you need are 2x 10mm spacers like these: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/travel-spacer-10-mm-thick-10-mm-shaft-manitou.html

You can do it without the spacers by doing the pump trick temporarily. But you need to set the fork height every time you attach a pump if you do that.

Yes reducing the travel like this increases negative air volume. But that's almost never a bad thing on a fork.


----------



## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

A year later I am still loving this fork! Made it a new set of decals to match my bikes new paint job. 120mm travel ext fork on a medium Blackborrow.


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Nice looking decals. I just got my fork installed and will be swapping out the red/white decals for the grey. How do people get the decals off, heat gun?


----------



## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

Swerny said:


> Thanks, what size frame is that?


17.5"


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## tmbrown (Jun 9, 2007)

BlueCheesehead said:


> Nice looking decals. I just got my fork installed and will be swapping out the red/white decals for the grey. How do people get the decals off, heat gun?


Hair dryer will work.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

The decals just come off if you pick at a corner with your fingernail. They aren't very sticky.


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## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

Dougal said:


> The additional parts you need are 2x 10mm spacers like these: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/travel-spacer-10-mm-thick-10-mm-shaft-manitou.html
> 
> You can do it without the spacers by doing the pump trick temporarily. But you need to set the fork height every time you attach a pump if you do that.
> 
> Yes reducing the travel like this increases negative air volume. But that's almost never a bad thing on a fork.


Excellent! Thank you Dougal. I'd been around in a few circles on this question with my LBS and Manitou. I'll give it a try and see if I notice/appreciate the increased negative air volume.

Either way I shall report back with the results and any changes to fork performance (assuming I'm smart enough to notice...)


----------



## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

tmbrown said:


> 17.5"


Thanks, I have a 19.5 so I might have clearance


----------



## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I guess they put a new set of uppers on mine, so thumbs up to Worldwide cyclery and Manitou. Shipped it off a couple weeks ago and it is on its way back fixed.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Got my fork back with a new set up uppers. Hopefully it's nice & quiet now!


----------



## compengr (Dec 11, 2008)

Apparently my Mastodon wasn't immune to the steerer slip. Despite a fair bit of use last winter it didn't move at all.

Noticed the headset was lose while getting the bike ready for the season. I was able to make it slip just by bouncing the front wheel a couple of times. I kept at it till it would move no more. Hopefully it stays that way and remains creak free. 

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

First ride after the repair and it's nice and quiet. Yay!
The lenz seems to like the 140 instead of 120 also.


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## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

Has anyone tried using a Manitou Mastodon Ext fork (I have 4.8 tires) 100mm on a Scott Big Jon? Any issues with clearance with the downtube or other fit issues? Thanks


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Lookbiker said:


> Has anyone tried using a Manitou Mastodon Ext fork (I have 4.8 tires) 100mm on a Scott Big Jon? Any issues with clearance with the downtube or other fit issues? Thanks


The crown on an EXT and STD are the same and travel makes no difference for frame clearance. What may matter is what size frame you have. What frame size do you have?


----------



## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

I have a medium Big Jon thanks


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

9GUY9 said:


> A year later I am still loving this fork! Made it a new set of decals to match my bikes new paint job. 120mm travel ext fork on a medium Blackborrow.
> View attachment 1218644
> View attachment 1218645


Where did you get the purple decals?


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

Lookbiker said:


> I have a medium Big Jon thanks


The Big Jon down tube looks similar to the Blackborow in the picture above. You might be able to do a geometry comparison to see if it "should" clear or if a headset extender would be necessary.


----------



## chode (Sep 16, 2010)

Just installed my Pro EXT! Love the fork and clears an Alaskan Alloy 21” frame. 4 tokens above and 2 below piston @108psi for a 255lbs Clidsdale seems sufficient.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

chode said:


> Just installed my Pro EXT! Love the fork and clears an Alaskan Alloy 21" frame. 4 tokens above and 2 below piston @108psi for a 255lbs Clidsdale seems sufficient.


I hate to be the bearer of bad news.....but your fork doesn't use tokens.
Maybe your talking about Travel spacers? Or spacers in the IVA(which only uses 4 spacers total if I remember correctly)?


----------



## chode (Sep 16, 2010)

the mayor said:


> I hate to be the bearer of bad news.....but your fork doesn't use tokens.
> Maybe your talking about Travel spacers? Or spacers in the IVA(which only uses 4 spacers total if I remember correctly)?


I apologize ,that's "Bluto" talk which I retired today. Yes, I am testing the IVA with (4) "Travel Spacers" above the piston. Trying to find a decent setup for my size and a till skimming through the 14 pages on this fork.


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## 9GUY9 (Jul 14, 2007)

kntr said:


> Where did you get the purple decals?


I made them. I have a vinyl plotter.


----------



## El Flaco (Oct 23, 2011)

9GUY9 said:


> I made them. I have a vinyl plotter.


Hey, new best friend!


----------



## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Anyone else managed to bang their knee on the Mastodons top cap yet? Ouch!


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I've finally got the spacers all in house for those wanting to fit bigger tyres to the STD models.
There are three spacers, Comp models use all three (incl travel adjust), Pro uses two of them. Take a look and tell me if this makes sense:

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastodon-10mm-tyre-clearance-kit-manitou.html


----------



## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

Does the unmodified (no extra spacers) Mastodon STD fork take 26x4.8 tires? Some website reviews say yes but the company's chart says no. Thanks


----------



## orhum (May 11, 2018)

it works with JJ 4.8 on my canyon dude.


----------



## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

Lookbiker said:


> Does the unmodified (no extra spacers) Mastodon STD fork take 26x4.8 tires? Some website reviews say yes but the company's chart says no. Thanks


Clearing my Bud no problem.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lookbiker said:


> Does the unmodified (no extra spacers) Mastodon STD fork take 26x4.8 tires? Some website reviews say yes but the company's chart says no. Thanks


That depends entirely on who made the 4.8" tyre and what it actually measures at. I've got a Mastodon customer with Jumbo Jim 4.8's that he measured at 766mm. So close to the 758mm OD that he decided to run with it stock. This is possibly the same website review you mention.

Officially the max you can run at standard height is (29.8" OD - 22" rim)/2 = 3.92" height.
The 766mm measurement puts the JJ 4.8 (as measured) at 30.16" OD which makes them 4.08" tall from rim bead.

Bottom line, is step outside the manufacturers specs at your own risk.


----------



## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

Thanks. Going with the Extended version. I don't want to change to a different tire down the road only to discover that it doesn't fit. The 120mm Extended version has an axle to crown of 551mm so going with the 100mm Useful information here. Thank you


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lookbiker said:


> Thanks. Going with the Extended version. I don't want to change to a different tire down the road only to discover that it doesn't fit. The 120mm Extended version has an axle to crown of 551mm so going with the 100mm Useful information here. Thank you


Unless you need 150mm travel with 5" rubber you're probably better with the STD version and some extra spacers under the bumpers.

A 120mm STD can be configured with a few spacers to do exactly the same tyre fitment and travel as a 100mm EXT. While still being able to fit up to 150mm travel with 4" rubber and having options in between.

It maximises your future options. Where a 100mm EXT version limits them.


----------



## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

Is it hard to change spacers on the STD ? Also, any advantage to going with the std with spacers versus 120mm Ext ? Thanks


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Lookbiker said:


> Is it hard to change spacers on the STD ? Also, any advantage to going with the std with spacers versus 120mm Ext ? Thanks


Changing spacers is lower legs off and they're right there.

A standard has the option to go lower A-C if you fit smaller rubber in the future, the EXT can't without swapping shafts. That's basically it.

If you're buying a fork to fit to one bike and never going to change it's not an issue. But I know the average MTBR forum user likes to swap stuff.


----------



## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

It will be used 95% in the winter so 120 to 100mm will be fine. Leaning toward the 10Omm because the Big Jion is spec’d for a 511 axle to crown. Thank you


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Hi, sorry if I missed the point, but have not been following the thread for a long time.
I have bought a Pole Taiga with 5.05" 2xl Vee Tyres. I suppose the only model to use for that tyre is the EXT version. 
But have I understood correctly if you want to go for a smaller tire, that it is possible to take down the length on the EXT, so it will be similar to the Standard version, with taking out spacers?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Hi, sorry if I missed the point, but have not been following the thread for a long time.
> I have bought a Pole Taiga with 5.05" 2xl Vee Tyres. I suppose the only model to use for that tyre is the EXT version.
> But have I understood correctly if you want to go for a smaller tire, that it is possible to take down the length on the EXT, so it will be similar to the Standard version, with taking out spacers?


The EXT has longer internal shafts and cannot be lowered as far as the STD.

The STD with spacers can do the same tyre size as the EXT, but loses 20mm of travel due to the shorter rods internally.
The STD with spacers is 5.25" max tyres and 130mm max travel.
The EXT can do 5.25" max tyres with 150mm max travel.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> The EXT has longer internal shafts and cannot be lowered as far as the STD.
> 
> The STD with spacers can do the same tyre size as the EXT, but loses 20mm of travel due to the shorter rods internally.
> The STD with spacers is 5.25" max tyres and 130mm max travel.
> The EXT can do 5.25" max tyres with 150mm max travel.


Dougal...I think you need to emphasize the STD needs the "bottom out" spacers ( seeing so many people here are confused)
The VEe 5.05 will slightly rub the crown when it bottoms.....the EXT has plenty of clearance.


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Dougal...I think you need to emphasize the STD needs the "bottom out" spacers ( seeing so many people here are confused)
> The VEe 5.05 will slightly rub the crown when it bottoms.....the EXT has plenty of clearance.


Absolutely. What's the OD of the Vee 5.05? These guys say 31.25": https://fat-bike.com/2015/08/product-spotlight-vee-tire-snowshoe-2xl-5-05-tire/

If that's true at 793mm then you need the full 20mm of spacers under the bottom-out bumpers in the STD fork. Which gives it the same bottom-out clearance as the EXT.


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Dougal said:


> Absolutely. What's the OD of the Vee 5.05? These guys say 31.25": https://fat-bike.com/2015/08/product-spotlight-vee-tire-snowshoe-2xl-5-05-tire/
> 
> If that's true at 793mm then you need the full 20mm of spacers under the bottom-out bumpers in the STD fork. Which gives it the same bottom-out clearance as the EXT.


Yup....it's a big tire. You might be able to get away with just 1 10mm spacer....but , yes, the full 20 would be better.
I took a 120 STD...and with all the air let out, bounced it to compress the bumper and got the 5.05 to slightly rub while rolling along slow. It may or may not be worse at speed ( I wasn't going to try that)


----------



## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Hi, sorry if I missed the point, but have not been following the thread for a long time.
> I have bought a Pole Taiga with 5.05" 2xl Vee Tyres. I suppose the only model to use for that tyre is the EXT version.
> But have I understood correctly if you want to go for a smaller tire, that it is possible to take down the length on the EXT, so it will be similar to the Standard version, with taking out spacers?


You can technically can take out spacers....but because of the longer air shaft.....it won't work out well ( I tried it)
Don't over think it and buy a EXT


----------



## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

Going to pull the trigger on a Mastodon Pro Ext for my medium Scott Big Jon tomorrow. Mostly winter riding with post holes 100mm or 120mm? Thanks


----------



## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

I have a 120 Mastodon STD PRO in very good condition, low miles, uncut steerer! Steerer has never come loose

PM me 

SOLD!


----------



## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

mikeetheviking said:


> I have a 120 Mastodon STD PRO in very good condition, low miles, uncut steerer! Steerer has never come loose
> 
> PM me
> 
> asking $450.00


That's a great deal. If I was l was Lookbiker, or if I had not bought one 2 months ago, I would be all over that. With all the variations Manitou makes, the 120 STD seems to be adjustable enough to work for 95% of people.


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## Lookbiker (Dec 4, 2016)

I don’t want to deal with spacers for the wider tires so going with Extended version from the start


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GspotRider said:


> Small Wozo frame has clearance issue with knob. A light grind of the black knob could prevent a bent adjuster shaft.
> 
> Should i leave it? Should I grind it?
> 
> ...


Sent you PM also. Looking at a small 2017 and want to put on the mastadon. Did the thicker race work for you? Thanks.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Found another Wozo 2017 brand new in the shop. Made the deal on the bike and traded in the Bluto, got a Mastodon 120mm Comp EXT. The bigger Crown Race will be installed. 

Rode the 2019 Wozo for a test ride to see what the Mastodon would do. Far better than I thought possible.


----------



## GspotRider (Jan 21, 2004)

Hi Bumpyride,

The taller crown race takes care of the clearance issues on the small wozo. I have been running 140mm travel for a year now. I think I will pull it apart and set it to 150mm instead. Bike rides great with the mastodon. Enjoy your new ride!



Bumpyride said:


> Found another Wozo 2017 brand new in the shop. Made the deal on the bike and traded in the Bluto, got a Mastodon 120mm Comp EXT. The bigger Crown Race will be installed.
> 
> Rode the 2019 Wozo for a test ride to see what the Mastodon would do. Far better than I thought possible.


----------



## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

GspotRider said:


> Hi Bumpyride,
> 
> The taller crown race takes care of the clearance issues on the small wozo. I have been running 140mm travel for a year now. I think I will pull it apart and set it to 150mm instead. Bike rides great with the mastodon. Enjoy your new ride!


Thanks. Reading through this whole thread helped me not make a mistake. Your 2017 small picture kind of sealed the deal. I looked at the 2019 and it was not the bike I wanted. It was, however, pretty insightful to ride the 2019 with the Mastodon and see what a difference in the ride it made.


----------



## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dougal said:


> The EXT has longer internal shafts and cannot be lowered as far as the STD.
> 
> The STD with spacers can do the same tyre size as the EXT, but loses 20mm of travel due to the shorter rods internally.
> The STD with spacers is 5.25" max tyres and 130mm max travel.
> The EXT can do 5.25" max tyres with 150mm max travel.


I have been too busy to thank for the recommendations here, sorry for late reply!

For me it needs to be a EXT, with pictures with spikes hitting the crown on the STD, it seems not possible to use STD. 
Since I am going to use a 120mm travel fork for the Pole Taiga, with the largest diameter tires out there in 27.5"x 4,5 including studs. Bontrager Barb and GnarWhale. Want also to have the Cake Eater 4.5 that is the same diameter as the 2XL Vee.

So for me the choice of EXT/STD should not do any difference of AC since a modified STD will have same AC like EXT. STD AC length with 120mm travel will be 20mm+20mm= +40mm minus 20mm less AC length, AC length as exactly like EXT.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> I have been too busy to thank for the recommendations here, sorry for late reply!
> 
> For me it needs to be a EXT, with pictures with spikes hitting the crown on the STD, it seems not possible to use STD.
> Since I am going to use a 120mm travel fork for the Pole Taiga, with the largest diameter tires out there in 27.5"x 4,5 including studs. Bontrager Barb and GnarWhale. Want also to have the Cake Eater 4.5 that is the same diameter as the 2XL Vee.
> ...


The addition of spacers in the STD will stop the spikes hitting the crown. With 2x10mm spacers in each side it has the same clearance as the EXT.

A-C will be dictated by clearance and travel.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dougal said:


> The addition of spacers in the STD will stop the spikes hitting the crown. With 2x10mm spacers in each side it has the same clearance as the EXT.
> 
> A-C will be dictated by clearance and travel.


Yes so my calculation is for a STD fork:
Increased clearance +20mm
Reduced travel -20mm (from 120 to 100mm
Increased travel +20mm
=Total increased AC lengt +20mm

Is that not exactly the difference in EXT and STD AC length?


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## mikeetheviking (Jan 27, 2015)

So.....now that my mastodon has been sold, I figured I would take a moment here to share some thoughts

I ran a pro std 120 in 29+ mode with no internal mods on a FS Waltworks

Just wanted to say that I loved the fork and HIGHLY recommend it if you are in the market for a fat fork.

It never felt heavy, I could lift it and wheelie with ease. And it behaved like any fine piece of equipment should.

Just get one!


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

I read that there's a new Mastodon Pro with IRT but don't see anyone selling it yet. I wonder will Manitou sell IRT upgrade separately?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Mebaru said:


> I read that there's a new Mastodon Pro with IRT but don't see anyone selling it yet. I wonder will Manitou sell IRT upgrade separately?


The IRT unit is sold separately, so just buy it and put it on the fork. It is around 60USD.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> The IRT unit is sold separately, so just buy it and put it on the fork. It is around 60USD.


As far as I know earlier IRT was sold only for Mattoc forks. I have contacted Manitou a year ago if I can put IRT into my Mastodon and they replied they aren't compatible.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I’m running an IRT in both of my Mastodon forks as well as my Mattoc. I love the tuning options and the benefits to both are similar. They are definitely compatible. It’s odd Manitou would say it’s not, maybe the CS did not know when the Mastodon first came out?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Aresab said:


> I'm running an IRT in both of my Mastodon forks as well as my Mattoc. I love the tuning options and the benefits to both are similar. They are definitely compatible. It's odd Manitou would say it's not, maybe the CS did not know when the Mastodon first came out?


I have used on three different Mastodon forks, so that is wrong. They fit. It is the IRT for Mattoc Expert, you can see it here:
https://www.bike24.com/p2172736.html?q=irt

You will even see en the bottom of these page on Manitou site, that it is Setup guide for Mattoc and Mastodon.
https://manitoumtb.com/product/mrd-irt/?cat_id=26


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Ok, great. So you guys can confirm that Mattoc IRT can be installed ninto Mastodon Pro fork?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Mebaru said:


> Ok, great. So you guys can confirm that Mattoc IRT can be installed ninto Mastodon Pro fork?


Check here it says "Mattoc/Mastodon IRT Set-up Guide" on the IRT web page for Manitou, so yes for the secon time I can confirm that is possible to install it and I have done so for 3 different Mastodon Pro forks.

See link https://manitoumtb.com/product/mrd-irt/?cat_id=26


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Check here it says "Mattoc/Mastodon IRT Set-up Guide" on the IRT web page for Manitou, so yes for the secon time I can confirm that is possible to install it and I have done so for 3 different Mastodon Pro forks.
> 
> See link https://manitoumtb.com/product/mrd-irt/?cat_id=26


Ok, thanks.

They have updated their website recently. Previously, there was no mention about Mastodon forks. In the product description it still doesn't have Mastodon listed: " This tool is compatible with the following fork models: • Mattoc Pro 2 • Mattoc Pro • Mattoc Expert • Doradro Pro • Dorado Expert Trail"

Yeah, I know that Mastodon is basically is fat version of Mattoc 2 fork...


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Regarding IRT. There are two different stanchion internal diameters.

Pro models and Comp models. Comp models are smaller ID due to thicker stanchion walls due to softer 6000 series aluminium stanchions.

Mattoc Pro & Expert used the same stanchions with same ID since the start and IRT screws straight into those.

I have not yet tried to fit IRT into a Mastodon. I would try it but I'm currently out of Mastodon stock. Given @Rumblefish2010 and @Aresab have run it, it is clear they fit and work.

Standard caution for IRT: Make sure the shaft is greased during install, or the seal inside the IRT piston wears out quickly.


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

Has anyone found a tool-less axle setup for the Mastadon?

ac


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Anyone else have a problem setting the SAG on an EXT Comp model. Was really hard to fine tune. Finally got it to about 20%, but it took about 20 times with the fork pump to get it there.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

avc8130 said:


> Has anyone found a tool-less axle setup for the Mastadon?
> 
> ac


since the mastodon axle is a proprietary design, you will have to go custom if yoou want a tool less front axle.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Dougal said:


> Regarding IRT. There are two different stanchion internal diameters.
> 
> Pro models and Comp models. Comp models are smaller ID due to thicker stanchion walls due to softer 6000 series aluminium stanchions.
> 
> ...


I had an IRT installed on my Mastodon Comp by the swedish dealer. It took me a long time to understand that the extra chamber was leaking into the main positive chamber. The guy had swapped the lower piston to one of an IVA which should in theory work since both shafts are 10mm but it doesn't...


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

My Mastodon has a click noise on the rebound stroke, it is not at top out but just when the fork changes direction from compression to rebound. Any idea what it could originate from?


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## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

HappyMTB.fr said:


> My Mastodon has a click noise on the rebound stroke, it is not at top out but just when the fork changes direction from compression to rebound. Any idea what it could originate from?


Have you checked the oil level? Might be the cause. My mechanic said it is very sensitive to the exact volume of oil and that he had to do a quick adjustment to most of the Mastodons that they've sold.


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

Thanks @canmoreBruce!
I will check that


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Does a carbon Farley require a spacer or different adjuster nob to clear the non pro mastodon? Thanks


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Saskrider said:


> Does a carbon Farley require a spacer or different adjuster nob to clear the non pro mastodon? Thanks


Mine did. About a 3mm spacer below the crown race.


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Hobine said:


> Mine did. About a 3mm spacer below the crown race.


Thanks! Which spacer did you use that's compatible with the factory headset


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Can anyone confirm if swapping for the circus adjuster allows the mastodon to clear a carbon Farley frame? Heard it once on this thread to clear a different bike and no one has mentioned it since. Thanks


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## Hobine (Jun 16, 2004)

Saskrider said:


> Thanks! Which spacer did you use that's compatible with the factory headset


I had some bottom bracket spacers on hand that were the correct size. I believe they are BB30.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Saskrider said:


> Thanks! Which spacer did you use that's compatible with the factory headset


You can try one of these:

Cane Creek 40-series crown race (52/40) steel, 1.5" (+6mm)

They also make it in 3mm


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

This one comes in whatever size you need.

https://www.mtbtools.com/product/extended-crown-race-for-fat-bike-suspension-fork-clearance/

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## HappyMTB.fr (Mar 17, 2012)

CanmoreBruce said:


> Have you checked the oil level? Might be the cause. My mechanic said it is very sensitive to the exact volume of oil and that he had to do a quick adjustment to most of the Mastodons that they've sold.


You were bang on! My oil level was 10mm too low. Thanks again!


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

akgrimace said:


> This one comes in whatever size you need.
> 
> https://www.mtbtools.com/product/extended-crown-race-for-fat-bike-suspension-fork-clearance/
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


Thank you, you dont happen to know how many mm I need to clear a large carbon Farley frame?


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

majack said:


> You can try one of these:
> 
> Cane Creek 40-series crown race (52/40) steel, 1.5" (+6mm)
> 
> They also make it in 3mm


Pretty sure I just need a 3mm on a large carbon farley, can you confirm? Thanks


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

Saskrider said:


> Thank you, you dont happen to know how many mm I need to clear a large carbon Farley frame?


I have a different frame. Once I had the fork, I mocked it up, measured, and had the spacer a week later.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

akgrimace said:


> I have a different frame. Once I had the fork, I mocked it up, measured, and had the spacer a week later.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


I agree that's the best way but ill be waiting 3+ weeks for q part like that in Canada so going to confirm so I can have it waiting for the fork thanks


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

At the bottom of this really long webpage is a procedure for measuring your frame.

https://www.ridefatbikes.ca/2018-fat-bike-suspension-fork-shootout

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## kyttyra (Mar 8, 2012)

^before I go measuring: I suspect that a 2016 Salsa Mukluk frame (size XL) does not clear the Mastodon fork. Could someone prove me wrong


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

Mastodon Pro STD 120mm on my 2015 Salsa Beargrease 2 (aluminum).

Fits perfectly, clears the downtube with ease. Makes for a pretty slack bike. Riding impressions soon.


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

FireinMTB said:


> Mastodon Pro STD 120mm on my 2015 Salsa Beargrease 2 (aluminum).
> 
> Fits perfectly, clears the downtube with ease. Makes for a pretty slack bike. Riding impressions soon.


Looks good. And I agree that is fixes the geo a bit!


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## carbine_275 (Nov 15, 2015)

Just received a Mastodon Pro 120 Ext from CRC for my Voytek. Looking forward to seeing how it changes the ride. Also considering experimenting with 27.5 Fat. 

Currently running the Otso rigid carbon fork.


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## CanmoreBruce (Sep 3, 2008)

kyttyra said:


> ^before I go measuring: I suspect that a 2016 Salsa Mukluk frame (size XL) does not clear the Mastodon fork. Could someone prove me wrong


No clearance issues on my 2018 XL carbon frame. I think that's the same Mukluk design as 2016...I think...???


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## BlueCheesehead (Jul 17, 2010)

carbine_275 said:


> Just received a Mastodon Pro 120 Ext from CRC for my Voytek. Looking forward to seeing how it changes the ride. Also considering experimenting with 27.5 Fat.
> 
> Currently running the Otso rigid carbon fork.


I like mine on my Voytek. I went with the Std. It clears 29+ just fine. No plans yet for B-Fat. I have too much invested in 26 tires and wheels.


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## FireinMTB (Apr 23, 2012)

bikedrd said:


> Looks good. And I agree that is fixes the geo a bit!


Thanks man. By my calculations it should put the head angle in the 67.5 range, considering with a 100mm bluto (sagged) it's supposed to be at 68.5.

Also makes the rear end feel shorter making it super easy to pop into a manual now, and raises the BB height which was a touch low for trail riding.

win/win/win and this is now my favorite trail bike. It just friggin' eats everything, and the handling is much improved over the rigid setup.

very happy with this. If you are on the fence about this fork, just get one, you won't be disappointed.


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## twodownzero (Dec 27, 2017)

So guys, I've been riding faster than last year when I got this beast and I need to make the suspension more progressive. Am I correct that removing the spacers from the bottom of the IVA and putting them on top will achieve this? I'm running the 100mm Pro Ext, so it came with 2 on top and 2 below. I moved one (more) above for now and pumped the fork up to the same pressure. Quick ride in the driveway didn't show much difference but I haven't had time to dial it in yet. I had two harsh bottom outs on landings on Monday and so I'm looking to tweak the performance.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Can a 203mm rotor be fitted to this fork? I know it will need a spacer but I can't find a maximum size listed, I've emailed Hayes but have had no reply. TIA

EDIT - found it!


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

JackWare said:


> Can a 203mm rotor be fitted to this fork? I know it will need a spacer but I can't find a maximum size listed, I've emailed Hayes but have had no reply. TIA


Yes, you can with adapter. I have 203mm rotor on my Mastodon Pro.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

For Info;

To change from a Mastodon Comp from 120mm to 140mm you don't need the large 24mm socket, thin walled 8mm long socket or the cut cassette tool.

The official guide is very good and Hayes have published lots of info but I found that a standard Unior 1670.5/4 cassette tool slides over the air spring shaft perfectly once you've removed the lower spacer(s) as shown below.

I left the forks on the bike and simply inverted the bike and wrapped a lot of old cloths around the top (now bottom) of the forks to catch the oil as I slide the lowers off.

I undid the air valve side using a standard 8mm socket to begin with and then a 4mm allen key gently pressed in the the valve head (which is an internal hex).

Once the spacers have been removed as per the instructions, the fork lowers slid back on and oil added, the only fiddly part was starting the thread again on the air value side, as using the allen key initially isn't possible as you release the air pressure. I used a pair or pliers to gently grip the thread and turn through 180' - just enough for the thread to engage and allow the use of the allen key to tighten it.

A pair of adjustable grips was used to loosen the IVA and then it can be unscrewed by hand, (while the system is depressurized).

When moving the spacer in the IVA beware of the two very thin washers below piston and ensure they don't get trapped and distorted when adding the spacer below it.

A good evening's work (and a lot cheaper than I'd initially expected). :thumbsup:

For info the Mastodon docs are here;

https://manitoumtb.com/wp-content/u...8/2017-RB-Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Service-Guide.pdf

https://manitoumtb.com/wp-content/u..._RD_Mastodon-Pro_Comp-Travel-Change-Guide.pdf

https://manitoumtb.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/08/45-35283-Mastodon-Setup-Guide.pdf


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## DarKris (Sep 11, 2016)

I need help with my new fork. I got the 120mm std Comp version and the shop set the sag up for me, however since I’m heavy (365lbs] I was only able to have them get me around 33-35% sag with stock fork settings. They ended up inflating the fork to 150psi although the max pressure is 120psi.

I played with more settings including maxing the rebound and changing the IVA from 1 spacer above, 3 below to all 4 above to hopefully make the fork more progressive. When I reinflated the fork I didn’t go past max psi and as a result I didn’t notice much decrease in sag. 

Wanted to get some recommendations on where I should be going to hopefully dial this fork in better for my weight.


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

Have you reached out to Manitou?


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## DarKris (Sep 11, 2016)

JAGI410 said:


> Have you reached out to Manitou?


Nope. Only had the bike with the fork installed for a day. Plus I'm now just assuming it's one of those things where I'm just too heavy and the fork wasn't specifically rated for my weight anyway so I'm SOL on that end.


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## Phiu-x (Mar 23, 2010)

Mastodon COMP will fit the IRT unit BUT you have to swap the pistons first. Basically you put the IVA unit black piston onto the IRT unit assembly reassemble screw into fork.


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## Phiu-x (Mar 23, 2010)

Mebaru said:


> Ok, great. So you guys can confirm that Mattoc IRT can be installed ninto Mastodon Pro fork?


Mastodon COMP : Yes but has to swap piston and use the black one from the IVA unit. 
Mastodon PRO: Direct fit.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

HappyMTB.fr said:


> I had an IRT installed on my Mastodon Comp by the swedish dealer. It took me a long time to understand that the extra chamber was leaking into the main positive chamber. The guy had swapped the lower piston to one of an IVA which should in theory work since both shafts are 10mm but it doesn't...





Phiu-x said:


> Mastodon COMP : Yes but has to swap piston and use the black one from the IVA unit.
> Mastodon PRO: Direct fit.


So you haven't experienced the same issue as HappyMTB whose dealer did the same conversion?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Two things to note:

1. If you install an IRT system without greasing the shaft, it wears out the oring inside the piston very quickly. Result is leaks from the IRT chamber to main chamber.

2. Static seals can have very different crush requirements to dynamic seals. I haven't checked the IVA pistons to see if the seal groove dimensions are suitable for a moving seal.


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## Phiu-x (Mar 23, 2010)

I put a major amount of grease onto the shaft , piston and thread of the IRT unit as per manufacturer advice before installing it. After 2 days riding it I don't have any leak... that I can feel .. yet. I will keep an eye out for this particular problem ans post here if any issue arise with this mod.


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## Phiu-x (Mar 23, 2010)

All I can say is that I pumped IRT from 100 up to 200 psi and the spring effect is there this piston keeping air and moving.But thanks, I will keep an eye out for this.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Had the Pro extended out to 140mm.Doesnt change the ride or handling,but nice to have a bit of extra squish when the trails are rough.Rode a downhill trail last week and it handled very well


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## ChristianNO (May 23, 2016)

@bikemad1

Where did you get the kashima-coating ?

Regards

Christian


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

KTMNealio said:


> It's a motobecane frame. But I greased the ends of the hub and torqued the axle down and it quit making that noise.


Same issue different bike. Same fix. Thanks.


Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

ChristianNO said:


> @bikemad1
> 
> Where did you get the kashima-coating ?
> 
> ...


That's not Kashima(tm) it's natural coloured hard anodising. It's what almost all stanchions were before fashion dictated they be dyed black during anodising.

That will be an OEM spec fork as all aftermarket Mastodon's have black stanchions.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Fat, but skinny!


__
http://instagr.am/p/B1pv_lHH0Jt/


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## ChristianNO (May 23, 2016)

Hi

Where is it possible to buy the Mastodon Pro Ext with 150mm Travel ??

Regards

Christian


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

Dougal said:


> Fat, but skinny!
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/B1pv_lHH0Jt/


Is that the lucrative 1 1/8" steerer CSU I've read about?!?! tempting option for silly Pugsley owners like myself.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Redlands R&C said:


> Is that the lucrative 1 1/8" steerer CSU I've read about?!?! tempting option for silly Pugsley owners like myself.


Yep, we're doing them as a custom build option.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

So I just had mine serviced.The suspension dude used fox 34 2019 seals-and the fork feels better than when I first got it!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

bikemad1 said:


> So I just had mine serviced.The suspension dude used fox 34 2019 seals-and the fork feels better than when I first got it!


They're a downgrade in friction over the stock seals. Especially in the cold. The fork will feel better now because it's broken in and recently serviced.

The SKF green seals are better than the Fox SKF. The stock Mastodon seals are better again.


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## bplaizier (Feb 1, 2011)

ChristianNO said:


> Hi
> 
> Where is it possible to buy the Mastodon Pro Ext with 150mm Travel ??
> 
> ...


They only come on OEM bikes so maybe a used take off.....? However I haven't every seen one for sale. Another option you know may or may not know about is the 120mm version is easy to change the travel to 140mm. Google it if your unfamiliar with this option.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N915A using Tapatalk


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

I recently had my Mastodon serviced and the guy used fox 34 seals like the fellah a few posts up.Waay smoother than the previous manitou seals.I have the Pro extended out to 140 and rode it recently on some flow and down hill trails in Cairns,in the north queensland tropics.It is So much better now buttery smooth


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## jed.campbell (Sep 8, 2018)

Just finished installing a Mastodon STD Comp 120mm on a 2016 alloy Specialized Fatboy. I was initially a little worried about clearance of the crown, and tire clearance for wide tires, and wished there was an example of my bike on this forum. Well, now there's an example...

I can confirm that it fit just fine in terms for crown clearance. The knob on the Comp model seems to have been redesigned from the pictures I was seeing earlier, and it's lower profile. The fork also clears 26x4.8 Minion FBF on Sun Mulefut 74mm inner width (by "clears" I mean: with all the air out of the fork, at full compression, there's still about 8-10mm clearance).

One small problem I had during install: I thought I'd be able to pull the crown race off my carbon Chisel fork (the stock one for the Fatboy). I couldn't get the race off, and neither could the bike shop. It looks like it's epoxied on or something. Anyway, not too big of a deal to source an extra crown race.

I've only had time to ride it on the street in front of my house, but the bike feels much better landing with a suspension fork than it did fully rigid. Can't wait to get out and ride it.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

I bought a 120MM standard comp model for my wife's fatty, it's a bit heavier than my pro but it's not terrible. I did notice the compression knob has been redesigned to be lower in profile and now has 3 positions rather than 12 or so clicks. Is there any way to put an AB+ knob to gain finer control over the 3 position? 

I'm looking forward to putting it on the bike for her next ride with me. Should be a good upgrade over her current charger based Bluto.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Aresab said:


> I bought a 120MM standard comp model for my wife's fatty, it's a bit heavier than my pro but it's not terrible. I did notice the compression knob has been redesigned to be lower in profile and now has 3 positions rather than 12 or so clicks. Is there any way to put an AB+ knob to gain finer control over the 3 position?
> 
> I'm looking forward to putting it on the bike for her next ride with me. Should be a good upgrade over her current charger based Bluto.


The Comp model only has 3 clicks. 
It has a different damper than the Pro model...which has both high and low compression adjustment.
The Comp works fine as it is.
And no...you can't swap dampers.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

Thanks for your reply but that was not my question; it was only the knob (meant ABS+) and not the damper. I have 2 Mastodon Pros and a few Mattocs Pros and am aware that the comp has a different diameter stanchion & damper from the pro. The first version of the Comp had ABS+ which had a red knob like my old Manitou Minutes, I believe it had many positions but have not had a 34mm model to verify. The second version appears to be a running change and is not on the Manitou Website yet (or in photos); they list ABS+. The newer knob is lower profile and black where most photos that I've seen are red. I did ask a similar question in the Mattoc thread on the suspension forum and Mullen119 responded earlier. The newer comps are 3-position like you describe but with a VTT damper, ABS+ based but different. I believe the Mattoc comps now use this damper too. For anyone who wants the info I pasted it below and it's post #4839 in the Mattoc thread.

_I spent a few months on it when it was in development. Its pretty good, just not as adjustable as the ABS+

It has 3 flow paths for oil and works like this:

Full open mode has a oil LSC circuit and HSC shim stack that flow oil. Its very supple in this mode.

In the middle setting, a plunger is pushed down and blocks flow through the low speed circuit and runs only through the HSC shim stack. The main shim stack is linear (not preloaded) so it can flow oil pretty quickly with no real platform. This is supportive without being too harsh. You do lose some small bump sensitivity though. I used this setting most of the time.

The lock out setting drops the plunger further and blocks flow to the main HSC shim stack. It redirects it to a secondary shim circuit that is highly preloaded that gives a very firm lock out. I personally never needed the lock out, but some people love having it.

Overall, its a solid damper. I like the abs+ better because its more adjustable and I don't care about the lock out. I did make a modification to one of my vvt dampers I was testing that made it a little better. It involves using a file to flatten a small part of the plunger to allow a little bit of oil to flow through the low speed circuit in the "trail" setting. This allowed for increased support with better small bump sensitivity. As more VTT dampers make their way to the public, I may post how to do it on here. That assumes enough people complain about the stock damper to justify it._


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

What is the VTT damper? Where did the italic text come from?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

See the above post "For anyone who wants the info I pasted it below and it's post #4839 in the Mattoc thread". The Mattoc thread (49 pages) is in the suspension forum on MTBR. I had asked a similar question there since that thread gets a lot of traffic and there are quite a bit of similarities between the Mattocs and Mastodons; I have both. The VTT is the newer damper, I guess they are phasing out ABS+. The one who responded with the text that I put in italics is Mullen119, he tests Manitou Products for them and has contact with their engineering.

The link to the Mattoc thread is here : https://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/manitou-mattoc-899836-49.html


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Have things changed with the tire clearances on the comp models? Just finished putting together a bike spec'd with a 100 comp fork (so the spec's say), but I've got huge tire clearance from the arch with a Bud mounted on a Mulefut. There's upwards of 120 mm between the top of the nobs and the bottom of the crow. Looking at this pic (below) and some of the early ones from initial release, there seems to be a ton more room. I was planning on doing Dougal's spacer/travel reducer fix to clear a Bud, but this doesn't seem necessary. FYI - on a new El OSO tres.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

watermonkey said:


> Have things changed with the tire clearances on the comp models? Just finished putting together a bike spec'd with a 100 comp fork (so the spec's say), but I've got huge tire clearance from the arch with a Bud mounted on a Mulefut. There's upwards of 120 mm between the top of the nobs and the bottom of the crow. Looking at this pic (below) and some of the early ones from initial release, there seems to be a ton more room. I was planning on doing Dougal's spacer/travel reducer fix to clear a Bud, but this doesn't seem necessary. FYI - on a new El OSO tres.
> View attachment 1305719


You can pull the lower legs and measure the travel from stanchion end-cap to bumpers. Might be worth checking if your fork is indeed set at 100mm.


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## somniferous (Jan 17, 2020)

watermonkey said:


> Have things changed with the tire clearances on the comp models? Just finished putting together a bike spec'd with a 100 comp fork (so the spec's say), but I've got huge tire clearance from the arch with a Bud mounted on a Mulefut. There's upwards of 120 mm between the top of the nobs and the bottom of the crow. Looking at this pic (below) and some of the early ones from initial release, there seems to be a ton more room. I was planning on doing Dougal's spacer/travel reducer fix to clear a Bud, but this doesn't seem necessary. FYI - on a new El OSO tres.


It's not clear on the Diamonback website, but the fork on the El Oso Tres is the extended version of the comp. While it's still a 100mm fork, there is more room to fit 5" tires, so it has the same crown to axle measurement as the 120mm fork.


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

Would one of you kind folks that have a mastodon 120 pro standard version tell me how long your brake line is? I am in the process of building up my bike and am using the carbon fixed fork right now and won't be getting a mastodon for 4 or 5 months. Would like to use this brake line for both forks. Also do you think a 120 pro standard will work with terrene johnny 5 tires? Or would you go with the extended fork?


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

What oil are you guys using for the comp damper for winter summer use.
I have looked in the online manual and they say standard is 3 wt and 5 wt is optional. I am quite happy with the performance of my fork the way it is. the only 3 wt synthetic I could source was Maxima shock fluid 3wt. Have the Manitaou semi bath oil, I am assuming this correct. I am doing my first service and just want to make sure I am using the right stuff.
Thanks in advance!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blaster182 said:


> What oil are you guys using for the comp damper for winter summer use.
> I have looked in the online manual and they say standard is 3 wt and 5 wt is optional. I am quite happy with the performance of my fork the way it is. the only 3 wt synthetic I could source was Maxima shock fluid 3wt. Have the Manitaou semi bath oil, I am assuming this correct. I am doing my first service and just want to make sure I am using the right stuff.
> Thanks in advance!


Factory damper oils are a blue 5wt Maxima for general use and a clear fully synthetic Maxima SYN RSF 3wt for very cold conditions.









The red Maxima 3wt didn't meet the cold condition performance.

Manitou 5W40 Semi-Bath is good for the cold.

I use Motorex fluids instead, but the above are factory fills.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Thanks for the reply,
Went with the Motorex 5wt.


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## JustRon (Nov 20, 2009)

Sorry if this been answered, but I just got a 2018 Farley 7 and the compression knob doesn't clear the downtube. 
Has anyone found a thinner/low-profile knob that fits? (I don't want to grind it down or install a thicker crown race.)
I Contacted Hayes and they don’t make a lower profile knob.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blaster182 said:


> Thanks for the reply,
> Went with the Motorex 5wt.


For Motorex use 2.5wt. It is the same viscosity (15 cSt @ 40C) as the Maxima 3wt and 5wt. Because for some weird reason European and American companies use those grades differently.

Motorex 2.5wt is better in the normal cold (tested to 0C) than the Maxima 5wt and equal to the 3wt.
I haven't tested them in the super cold (-15C).


----------



## TheConsul (Jun 19, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I haven't tested them in the super cold (-15C).


I remember reading somewhere for arctic winter you could use Motorex Snowmobile Polar Synt 4T 0W/40 for lower legs semi-bath, is that right?


----------



## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

TheConsul said:


> I remember reading somewhere for arctic winter you could use Motorex Snowmobile Polar Synt 4T 0W/40 for lower legs semi-bath, is that right?


Yes. I have that as Polar 0W40. Works great for making your fork think it's summer: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/polar-synthetic-lube-oil-250-cc-motorex.html


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Where can you buy a new 150mm travel Mastodon?


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

kntr said:


> Where can you buy a new 150mm travel Mastodon?


My understanding it is OEM only so you have to buy a bike that comes with it.

Or get lucky and find someone that is selling one.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

kntr said:


> Where can you buy a new 150mm travel Mastodon?


From me: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes/manitou-forks/manitou-mastodon

I will also have EXT versions available for special order.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Dougal said:


> From me: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/manitou-hayes/manitou-forks/manitou-mastodon
> 
> I will also have EXT versions available for special order.


Where in the world did you get those!

I thought the 150mm was OEM only


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenPsz said:


> Where in the world did you get those!
> 
> I thought the 150mm was OEM only


We try a bit harder than your average distributor. You'll see we have the straight steerer options too.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

What pressure should I have on my Mastodon with IRT? I find 80psi in main chamber and 130 in the IRT feels harsh. When going to 120 in IRT I feel the fork behaves better, but sinks into travel a bit to much, and I bottom out to easy.
Going less in main chamber does not feel better at all either, only gives more sag and the fork hits the compressed stroke to fast. 

I am trying to compensate with LSC at 2 from open, but even then it starts to feel not so good. Tried 1 click at HSC, but that got not good at all? My impression is that the damper starts to choke to fast, and makes the fork feel bad?

My weight is 115kg/ 255 lbs.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

Have you tried 100psi in the main with 120 in the IRT? Looking at the Manitou guide 80psi looks too low for your weight.
Just make sure you keep the IRT at 10psi more than the main chamber.


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

No but I did have about 100psi when I did not have IRT. Actually I felt that the fork felt better without IRT.



JackWare said:


> Have you tried 100psi in the main with 120 in the IRT? Looking at the Manitou guide 80psi looks too low for your weight.
> Just make sure you keep the IRT at 10psi more than the main chamber.
> 
> View attachment 1317987


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> What pressure should I have on my Mastodon with IRT? I find 80psi in main chamber and 130 in the IRT feels harsh. When going to 120 in IRT I feel the fork behaves better, but sinks into travel a bit to much, and I bottom out to easy.
> Going less in main chamber does not feel better at all either, only gives more sag and the fork hits the compressed stroke to fast.
> 
> I am trying to compensate with LSC at 2 from open, but even then it starts to feel not so good. Tried 1 click at HSC, but that got not good at all? My impression is that the damper starts to choke to fast, and makes the fork feel bad?
> ...


IMO the best IRT range is from 1.5 to 2x your main chamber pressure. So you're in the ballpark.

Even 5psi changes can be huge when you get close to a working setup.


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## Jingleman (Sep 15, 2004)

Hello
I just found a very good offer for a new Comp 140 EXT.
Can I lower it to 120 and transform to a STD version?
Problem is that axle to crown is too high. 
I would do the spacer travel change form 140 to 120 but is not enough..fork is still too long anyway.. 
Looking at the Manitou travel change guide and spare part list, it does look that I can buy a new AIR SPRING ASSEMBLY STD version and reduce even more the overall a to c length...This way I would get a STD axle to crown length out of a native EXT fork.
Is that correct?
thanks a lot


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

Dougal said:


> IMO the best IRT range is from 1.5 to 2x your main chamber pressure. So you're in the ballpark.
> 
> Even 5psi changes can be huge when you get close to a working setup.


Since my old Mastodon was having pretty much play in the bushings, I got a new fork on warranty.

Found out that the IRT does not fit, and measured that the threads are 1 mm less diameter then the previous?

Tested the fork without and it seems pretty difficult to get it to feel right. At my weight I should have 100 psi, that makes the fork just bouncing around. At 90 psi the fork feels better in the initial stroke, but when pushed hard it ramps up and gives tremendous arm pump.

Trying to adjust the rebound as fast as possible when using less air pressure to get it to stay high in travel.

Use of LSC is only giving the fork even more harsh feel, and even more arm pump. HSC is even worse.....

Today I got 3 sudden noises of metal that could be heard like something was braking. 
It came to my mind that I have had this on previous Mastodon forks, that have been moving the tube inside the crown?

Just starting to get pretty bad feeling of these forks now......


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Sorry if this is buried in this thread somewhere, but can someone tell me how the forks are out of the box? I've ordered a 120 STD Pro, and I'm wondering how oil levels and grease are from the factory. 

Also, how common is the steerer tube not being pressed all the way in? 

Thanks!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Shinkers said:


> Sorry if this is buried in this thread somewhere, but can someone tell me how the forks are out of the box? I've ordered a 120 STD Pro, and I'm wondering how oil levels and grease are from the factory.
> 
> Also, how common is the steerer tube not being pressed all the way in?
> 
> Thanks!


Pretty sure the steer tube issue was resolved after the first batch came out.
No problems with mine after getting it back and they replaced the upper under warranty.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Any idea on the oil levels?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> Any idea on the oil levels?


Oil levels are good to go. Same with the steerer tubes, that was sorted as soon as it was known about.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Rumblefish2010 said:


> Since my old Mastodon was having pretty much play in the bushings, I got a new fork on warranty.
> 
> Found out that the IRT does not fit, and measured that the threads are 1 mm less diameter then the previous?
> 
> ...


There is a new IRT with finer threads to fit these, the circus Pro and a few others. It is distinguished by a recessed cap with cassette tool fitment instead of external hex:

https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mattoc-irt-upgrade-kit-fine-thread-2020-manitou.html

Turns out we haven't got the picture up yet. But we do now have multi-currency so you guys can view prices in currencies that make sense.

Can you isolate that noise? What issue did you have with the previous forks?


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Hey Dougal, I didn't know if you'd answer my PM which is why I posted here at the same time. I appreciate you getting back to me!

Here's one more question (and I'm sorry to keep hammering on the steerer thing): I got my fork today and noticed the mfg date is April 12, 2018. I wasn't expecting the fork to be two years old. That's fine, but was this before or after the steerer problem was dealt with? 

My steerer does seem to sit proud of the crown like basically all of the mastodons that I've seen in person. 

The initial feel of the fork is good, but it's not quite as smooth as my (broken in) Marz Bomber Z1. I guess time will tell if it smooths out to the same level. 

Thanks again for the help.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> Hey Dougal, I didn't know if you'd answer my PM which is why I posted here at the same time. I appreciate you getting back to me!
> 
> Here's one more question (and I'm sorry to keep hammering on the steerer thing): I got my fork today and noticed the mfg date is April 12, 2018. I wasn't expecting the fork to be two years old. That's fine, but was this before or after the steerer problem was dealt with?
> 
> ...


The difference between a steerer being fully seated and not is a fraction of a mm. Not something you'd pick up by eye unless you had a lot of them to compare.

I delivered my first Mastodon in July 2017. So you're well past then. Should be fine.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Initial setup question

I'm a Clydesdale clocking in at 250lbs, Based on that I put 140psi to get 1.1in of sag for 20% with it at 140mm travel. What should I be looking at for rebound, I'm a fatty so I set it two clicks out from Max as my starting point, what should I be looking at for HS and LS compression for mainly trail riding? Thanks everyone for the insight and sorry if I'm rehashing something already covered. Psyched to get the Mastadon Pro vs the Bluto rct-3. 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

JonnyB76 said:


> Initial setup question
> 
> I'm a Clydesdale clocking in at 250lbs, Based on that I put 140psi to get 1.1in of sag for 20% with it at 140mm travel. What should I be looking at for rebound, I'm a fatty so I set it two clicks out from Max as my starting point, what should I be looking at for HS and LS compression for mainly trail riding? Thanks everyone for the insight and sorry if I'm rehashing something already covered. Psyched to get the Mastadon Pro vs the Bluto rct-3.
> 
> ...


Ignore sag, tune by frequency: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technical-support/setup-guide


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

JonnyB76 said:


> Initial setup question
> 
> I'm a Clydesdale clocking in at 250lbs, Based on that I put 140psi to get 1.1in of sag for 20% with it at 140mm travel. What should I be looking at for rebound, I'm a fatty so I set it two clicks out from Max as my starting point, what should I be looking at for HS and LS compression for mainly trail riding? Thanks everyone for the insight and sorry if I'm rehashing something already covered. Psyched to get the Mastadon Pro vs the Bluto rct-3.
> 
> ...


Got my first ride in on some rooty rocky New England single track, first impressions, holy amazeballs Batman! I'm beyond happy with my intial setup, good God the Mastadon Pro isn't even in the same solar system as my Bluto rct-3. And I did the shake down run with the aluminum 650b+ wheelset I can only imagine how it'll be with carbon 26 fat wheels. I'm one happy camper!! 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Seventh-777 (Aug 30, 2013)

After having a not so great experience with a Wren, I've decided to go with a Mastodon for my Farley 9.8. Is there a best place to buy one these days? There are a bunch on ebay between 800-850, but I'd like to save a few bucks if I can. 

Amazon, Universal Cycles and a few others are out of stock. Modern bike is too. I can't seem to find anywhere other than eBay that has the Pro EXT in stock.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Seventh-777 said:


> After having a not so great experience with a Wren, I've decided to go with a Mastodon for my Farley 9.8. Is there a best place to buy one these days? There are a bunch on ebay between 800-850, but I'd like to save a few bucks if I can.
> 
> Amazon, Universal Cycles and a few others are out of stock. Modern bike is too. I can't seem to find anywhere other than eBay that has the Pro EXT in stock.


It was 20% off on Hayes website recently, I went through my local bike shop who honored the 20% off but I paid for shipping, they got one from one of their distributors! Good luck 

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Seventh-777 (Aug 30, 2013)

JonnyB76 said:


> It was 20% off on Hayes website recently, I went through my local bike shop who honored the 20% off but I paid for shipping, they got one from one of their distributors! Good luck
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


It's 850 there too, so that 20% would be pretty nice lol.

I'm also not sure if I need STD or EXT though. I have a 27.5 Farley EX 9.8 running 27.5x4.0s.


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## JonnyB76 (Nov 13, 2009)

Seventh-777 said:


> It's 850 there too, so that 20% would be pretty nice lol.
> 
> I'm also not sure if I need STD or EXT though. I have a 27.5 Farley EX 9.8 running 27.5x4.0s.


The EXT can run 27.5x4.5 I believe. I paid $700 including shipping. Plus $70 to set it up to 140mm travel and install it.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Can someone explain how the compression damping works on the Pro? I have yet to take my fork for a ride yet aside from riding around the yard, but I'm noticing that there is no real lockout here. I think I read somewhere that you can close both the LSC and HSC and if it should firm up, which mine does, but its nothing like my fox forks. What should I expect/be looking for? 

I'm generally a compression-wide-open-all-of-the-time sort of guy so this probably doesn't make much of a difference to me but I'm wanting to ensure that my damper is working properly. I do know that I'm getting full travel out of the damper shaft, but the oil height was a little over spec from factory. I left it alone since it didn't seem to be preventing full travel. 

Thanks for any info.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

It's not possible to damage the compression damper, even on bottoming it is well clear of the piston rod. I regularly tune the 'shim stack' on mine and if you want a full lockout, you can get a full lockout. The factory tune in my experience needs a second 'platform' valve to achieve full lockout.


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## skinl19 (Jan 27, 2004)

I have a Fatboy and run J5's with studs in the winter. It appears that the forks will clear the frame without needing shims but I am concerned about the change in geometry and handling by adding the Manitou. If I read the thread correctly I can use the Pro standard 120 version and add some spacers to prevent tire contact while reducing the travel to 100. This version also has a shorter AC than the Ext version which may not impact the handling as much as the Ext version. Anyone running either version on a Fatboy care to comment on handling changes after installing a Mastodon?


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## Seventh-777 (Aug 30, 2013)

Answering my own question - I reached to Hayes and they recommended the STD for my Farley. 

I installed it last week and it fits 27.5x4.0 Wrathchilds just fine. My current mindset is "to hell with fatbikes" right now after a long ass winter, so I can't really say how well it works. I still have the studs on my bike, heh.


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## big_scot_nanny (Jan 24, 2010)

Hi Folks,

Odd thing with my 2019/later Mastodon, compared to my 1st gen one.

Both my forks are 120mm Pro EXT, travel increased to 140mm

In the 2019+ fork, when I change the orientation of the shims in the IVA, e.g. putting all the shims below the white piston, the available travel drops down to 120mm static. When I put the single spacer back above the piston, on re-pressurizing to about 80psi with the bike inverted, I'm back to 140mm available (maybe a tiny bit less).

Available travel measured from o-ring position after full compressing the fork with no air in it, to top of the seals, so should be accurate.

Weird. 

Both forks feel quite different with apparently the same settings, hence why I was mucking about with the IVA to try and get some plushness back. 

This issue of travel changing when I change the IVA is not something that affected the older fork.

Have I done something wrong? What am I missing? I followed the travel change instructions on the 2019+ forks which have a slightly different spacer orientation compared to 2018.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Anyone know off the top of their head what fork oil I need to service the Mastodon?

Thanks,

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Shark said:


> Anyone know off the top of their head what fork oil I need to service the Mastodon?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Yep.

Stock:
Damper (blue) is Maxima 85/150 5wt or (clear) Maxima Synthetic RSF.
Lower Legs Motorex Power Synt 5W40.

I use Motorex 2.5wt and Supergliss in lowers for warm use.
For cold use:
Shockcraft Hot Oil Pink in damper and Motorex 5W40 or 0W40 for cold conditions.
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/2-5-wt-fork-oil-motorex.html
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hot-oil-pink-250-cc-shockcraft.html
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/supergliss-lubricating-oil-250-to-1000-cc-motorex.html
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/fully-synthetic-fork-bushing-lubricant-250-to-1000-cc-motorex.html
https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/polar-synthetic-lube-oil-250-cc-motorex.html

Damper is 87mm down (87mm air gap at full extension).
Lower legs 16cc per side.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Yep.
> 
> Stock:
> Damper (blue) is Maxima 85/150 5wt or (clear) Maxima Synthetic RSF.
> ...


Thank you sir! I do appreciate it.

What are your favorite fork seals?

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Shark said:


> Thank you sir! I do appreciate it.
> 
> What are your favorite fork seals?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


I'm a big fan of the Manitou 34mm stock low friction seals. P/N 141-34000: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastodon-seal-kit-manitou.html

Second choice would be SKF green 34mm. A bit more friction but probably last 3 seasons where the stock Manitou ones are more like 2 season seals: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/fox-34-mm-flanged-fork-seal-kit-skf.html


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Today I put a scratch on the stanchion of my Mastodon comp 100 ext and am looking for a replacement part, but not having much luck finding one. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thank you.


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## jed.campbell (Sep 8, 2018)

Handling changes:
In summer, went from: kinda ok handling on trails until things get rough. I was fine using my fat bike as a backup for when my trail bike was broken, but I would definitely stay away from rough or steep trails, and jumping was painfully harsh. Went to: The fatbike is actually fun to ride in any situation, including steep, rough, or jumpy terrain. I actually found myself going out of my way to pop off trail obstacles and take the tougher lines. The slacker head angle (from 70.5 to 68) made downs much more fun, and I could barely notice a change on the ups. Definitely made the bike better. Strava times got a tiny bit slower on the ups, and a whole lot faster on the downs.

In snow, the only really noticeable changes were a much smoother experience on rough sections of trail (post-holed sections became less harsh) and a higher bottom bracket kept my feet out of the powder more often. Beyond that, it wasn't a huge change.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Blaster182 said:


> Today I put a scratch on the stanchion of my Mastodon comp 100 ext and am looking for a replacement part, but not having much luck finding one. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thank you.


FYI- I was able to sorce part, 
I contacted Hayes and they gave me the part # and quantity that was in stock. These parts must be ordered through a LBS/dealer


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## totem. (Jun 28, 2013)

Hi
Im considering mastodon for my wednesday. People from surly say that a2c should be 511 or less which means that my option is Pro std 100mm (i prefer pro over comp - am i wrong?). 
Does anybody use pro std 100 with anything bigger/fatter than 26x4 or with 29+ eg 29x3?

thanks


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## orhum (May 11, 2018)

i've used the pro std with JJ 26x4.8 with no pb.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

totem. said:


> Hi
> Im considering mastodon for my wednesday. People from surly say that a2c should be 511 or less which means that my option is Pro std 100mm (i prefer pro over comp - am i wrong?).
> Does anybody use pro std 100 with anything bigger/fatter than 26x4 or with 29+ eg 29x3?
> 
> thanks


You can convert a 120 to 100. The bottom out point is the same. Spacers control how far it extends and also where it bottoms (compresses). 
I think the only point to the shortest travel models was to save weight.


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## ThomasBiker (Jun 23, 2020)

Sorry if my question is dumb, but I just wanted to double-check before I pull the trigger on a Mastodon. I really appreciate any advice.

I own a Trek Farley 5, 2019 with 27,5 x 4,5 tires. The Mastodon Comp EXT 100mm would seem the recommended size to go with, but its sold out at all websites with good deals that deliver to me at reasonable rates :-(

I'm now looking at the Mastodon Comp EXT 120mm, as its available  and the Trek website states that the Farley supports 120mm forks. 

What do you think? Is it the sensible thing to do? Is the 120mm downwards adjustable to 100mm if for some reason 120mm does not feel right?


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

You will just want to roll with the 120 as is. If for some reason you want to make it 100 you can adjust it by equalizing the air chamber 20mm short or opening up the fork and adding spacers to limit the fork extension.


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## totem. (Jun 28, 2013)

(blind with a gun)


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## ThomasBiker (Jun 23, 2020)

Much obliged! I ordered the 120mm and am looking forward to installing it.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

This reply was intended for skinl19 I have been running a comp 100 ext on my Fatboy for over 2 years now and absolutely love it,. Handling and ride comfort is a complete game changer. You will be glad you did it!


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

Anyone using a 203mm rotor on the comp? Need a new one anyway and was thinking about going bigger. Might think about 180 on rear at same time.


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## orhum (May 11, 2018)

I'm using a 203 front and 180 back, on a canyon dude. So pleased with this setup.


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## Bumpyride (Jan 2, 2014)

orhum said:


> I'm using a 203 front and 180 back, on a canyon dude. So pleased with this setup.


Thanks


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

orhum said:


> I'm using a 203 front and 180 back, on a canyon dude. So pleased with this setup.


Is your rear wheel in the long position? I didnt think 180 fit. Came with 160, right?


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## orhum (May 11, 2018)

yep, came with 180/160. I wanted more power, so the easy and cheapest way was to increase the rotor size.
First, I had a full rigid dude, that I upgrade later with the mastodon. But before the mastodon, I moved to 203/180mm rotors.
The rear wheel is where the tire let it be. Nowadays I ride with either 27.5x3.0" or 26x4.0", so the wheel is the closest to the seat tube. (used to run a 4.8 JJ so the tire was the further from the seat tube)
Keep in mind you obviously have to change the adaptor from 160 to 180 IS to PM. Canyon might not approved this rotor size increase. (might void the warranty)


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## JeepRage (Oct 7, 2017)

orhum said:


> yep, came with 180/160. I wanted more power, so the easy and cheapest way was to increase the rotor size.
> First, I had a full rigid dude, that I upgrade later with the mastodon. But before the mastodon, I moved to 203/180mm rotors.
> The rear wheel is where the tire let it be. Nowadays I ride with either 27.5x3.0" or 26x4.0", so the wheel is the closest to the seat tube. (used to run a 4.8 JJ so the tire was the further from the seat tube)
> Keep in mind you obviously have to change the adaptor from 160 to 180 IS to PM. Canyon might not approved this rotor size increase. (might void the warranty)


Mind sharing what adapter you used? Everything I read was 180 wouldn't fit with the tire towards the seat tube. This would be huge as the brakes are severally lacking after Mastodon was added 2 years ago.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk


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## orhum (May 11, 2018)

If my memories serve me well, this is the guy https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-Adapter-IS-2000-PM-40-mm-RW-180-rear
I'm not close to my bike right now.


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## skinl19 (Jan 27, 2004)

I had my first ride on the Mastodon Pro 120 on my Fatboy and love it. I haven't reduced the travel yet since I have the summer tires on. I noticed on quick rebounds I get a noise as if the seals are squeaking or or maybe the cartridge as it rebounds. Does anyone else have the same?


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

I get that too, but hadn't thought much about it.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

I figured you guys would like our new Mastodon options: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastod...teerer-80-150-170-mm-matte-black-manitou.html

Up to 170mm travel.

I can almost hear the Manitou Engineers groaning from here!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Dang, 170mm fat fork? Impressive!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Dougal said:


> I figured you guys would like our new Mastodon options: https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/mastod...teerer-80-150-170-mm-matte-black-manitou.html
> 
> Up to 170mm travel.
> 
> I can almost hear the Manitou Engineers groaning from here!


I have my Shockcraft 170mm Mastodon heading this way... Dougal hooked me up with some valving mods and and an IRT. Should be here Monday. SO EXCITED!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:



Shark said:


> Dang, 170mm fat fork? Impressive!


Yes, Dougal's Mastodon is the pinnacle of fat forks.


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

I just put my 150mm (Also from Dougal) on my bike replacing my Wren and there is a significant difference.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

Dougal said:


> Up to 170mm travel.
> 
> I can almost hear the Manitou Engineers groaning from here!


GOT IT!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Dougal, am I the first to have the big travel Mastodon?!? I am gonna say yes... 









Apparently, customs wanted to see the world first big travel mastodon too... 









I will have it installed in a few hours, then will take it for a shakedown ride.

Dougal / Shockcraft supports MTBR and gives everyone free tech help/advice, so we should all send him our business! 
THANKS DOUGAL!!! #shockcraftisAWESOME


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

KenPsz said:


> I just put my 150mm (Also from Dougal) on my bike replacing my Wren and there is a significant difference.


Great to hear. Your one left in the same shipment as Rodneys but his got held up.



Rodney said:


> GOT IT!!! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
> 
> Dougal, am I the first to have the big travel Mastodon?!? I am gonna say yes...
> 
> ...


Look forward to hearing how it goes!


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## totem. (Jun 28, 2013)

Ive got my mastodon PRO EXT 
There is small package ith spacers inside the box with partnumber 141-30159-K012.
Are they top-out spacers?

What ive found in internet is:

C-clip design
10 mm total height, 27.9 mm diameter, with internal recess 1 mm each side
Fits 10 mm shafts


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

^Pretty sure that is how in change travel length. 

I finally ordered one for my fat bike, seeing as how it is my only bike now I figure I deserve some squish.


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## justin51 (Mar 7, 2009)

Does anyone know what the stock steerer tube length is on the Mastodon's?


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

justin51 said:


> Does anyone know what the stock steerer tube length is on the Mastodon's?


Roughly 9.75" with crown race installed.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

First ride tonight and I'm loving it. #McDonalds


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

*Suspension sprays?*

Has anyone seen any research or have an informed opinion on whether external spray suspension oils like "Finish Line Max Suspension Spray" provide any benefits for forks like the Mastodon?


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

FitmanNJ said:


> Has anyone seen any research or have an informed opinion on whether external spray suspension oils like "Finish Line Max Suspension Spray" provide any benefits for forks like the Mastodon?


forr the last 3 years, I used finish line spray on my dropper, fork and shock after every ride. One mastodon has over 2000 hard miles on it, and the fork seals are still good. works for me. :thumbsup:


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

I use WPL on all my bikes-
https://wplbike.com/products/forkboost-4oz

https://thelostco.com/products/wpl-forkboost-lube-4oz

Video-


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## EvilSmrk (May 10, 2016)

Ok so this is my first true suspension fork (have ridden road bikes and rigid fat bikes till now) and researching it it looks like it’s time for a mid season servicing of the lowers.

I do most of my own wrenching so I’m not afraid of tackling this, but wanted to make sure I have my ducks in a row.

What are you guys using for oil in the lowers?
And is it the same as used in the dampers?

I found some of the Manitou ‘semi bath oil’ (from the service manual) for an obnoxious $12.35 for 3.5oz

Looking at the label it looks like synthetic 5w/40 oil.

Is it that simple? Go to the local auto store and pick up a quart for $10?

Or should I go to the local motorcycle shop and see what they have?


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## justin51 (Mar 7, 2009)

Curious to see if anyone has a used Mastodon laying around that they would like to sell? Putting a feeler out there before I go ahead and buy new.

Thanks


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

justin51 said:


> Curious to see if anyone has a used Mastodon laying around that they would like to sell? Putting a feeler out there before I go ahead and buy new.
> 
> Thanks


I bought the My 21 Mastodon when it was on sale for $679.










I got the 100mm EXT Pro for my Growler-


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## justin51 (Mar 7, 2009)

Any suggestions on crown race recommendations? Or will any 1 1/8th crown race work?

Thanks


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

justin51 said:


> Any suggestions on crown race recommendations? Or will any 1 1/8th crown race work?
> 
> Thanks


You mean 1.5" right?

I got a Cane Creek 40 1.5" crown race to match the cane creek 40 headset. The fork did not come with a star nut or shock pump though. I already had some extras so not a big deal, but you'll need to get if you don't already have.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

EvilSmrk said:


> What are you guys using for oil in the lowers?
> And is it the same as used in the dampers?
> 
> I found some of the Manitou 'semi bath oil' (from the service manual) for an obnoxious $12.35 for 3.5oz
> ...


damper oil is different then the lower oil. As per the Mastodon manual, upper oil is 3w or 5w (depending on temps) and lower is 5w/40.

Dougal from Shockcraft uses the motorex Supergliss for warmer temps and polar for colder temps. I have both, and swap out yearly depending on what season i am going into...


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

singletrackmack said:


> The fork did not come with a star nut or shock pump though. I already had some extras so not a big deal, but you'll need to get if you don't already have.


Headsets usually come with starnuts. How can you expect a fork mnfr to know how you will be installing it?

same with the shock pump. you really expect manitou to give out a pump for every fork they sell?

I am partial to the digital ones. easier to set vs the needle sweep guages. BUT, i use needle sweep for tires...


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Rodney said:


> Headsets usually come with starnuts. How can you expect a fork mnfr to know how you will be installing it?
> 
> same with the shock pump. you really expect manitou to give out a pump for every fork they sell?
> 
> I am partial to the digital ones. easier to set vs the needle sweep guages. BUT, i use needle sweep for tires...


Was just letting Justin51 know what else he will need. Didn't say those things should have come with the shock, but I have 3 shock pumps because the last three forks and/or rear shocks I bought came with them. Also, I don't remember getting a star nut the last few times I bought a headset.


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## justin51 (Mar 7, 2009)

singletrackmack said:


> You mean 1.5" right?
> 
> I got a Cane Creek 40 1.5" crown race to match the cane creek 40 headset. The fork did not come with a star nut or shock pump though. I already had some extras so not a big deal, but you'll need to get if you don't already have.


Ah yes, that was a typo.... I also need a star nut.

Thanks for the info, much appreciated!!!!!!

Hope everything is here later this week as I can't wait to hit the trails with the Mastodon!!!!!!!!


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

justin51 said:


> Ah yes, that was a typo.... I also need a star nut.
> 
> Thanks for the info, much appreciated!!!!!!
> 
> Hope everything is here later this week as I can't wait to hit the trails with the Mastodon!!!!!!!!


Not sure if you are switching from a rigid fork or other fork, but you may need shorter caliper mounting bolts too.

The rigid fork I switched from is set up for 160mm rotors and I had a brake adaptor to run 180s. Well, this requires long bolts to mount the caliper and the adaptor together. With the mastodon already set up for 180s there's no adaptor needed, which means the bolts are way too long and can't be used safely to mount the caliper on the mastodon.

I was thinking of going to Ace hardware and looking for some shorter bolts, but probably best I go LBS for me here. This being my first new bike in over 10 years and I already made a stupid mistake with the hydro brakes after mounting them wrong and other dumb things, I don't want risk doing something else stupid especially when it involves the front brake, let a lone a new fork.

Luckily, LBS is awesome and so far every time I've had an issue or done something dumb, which has been quite a few times lately with the new bike, they fix it all professional like right when I walk in, give me wrenching tips, extra take off parts from the bin and chat trails/conditions. Was hoping to have the fork mounted Friday night and riding Saturday morn, but ran into dumb brake issues testing the bike Sat morn after Friday night's install, which I finally figured out this morning, but then ran into the bolt length issue and had no time to get to the lbs. So tomorrow it is.

Hopefully you can get all the parts needed and ready to go for a quick and proper install when your fork arrives. Good luck! :thumbsup:


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

I thought that going from a lighter rigid fork to a heavier suspension fork would slow me down due to the weight penalty. It is quite the opposite- I'm bombing down hills, ripping through rooted areas, and crushing it over rough spots at my local trails. I had also switched from 5" minions to 4" Jumbo Jims so that helped as well but this fork has been great so far. Now if I can get it dialed in. I find it feels better with lower pressures and softer damping/rebound settings. Maybe small bump compliance isn't great?
I too had to find caliper bolts to fit my 180 rotors as the rigid was set up for 160 and I had an adapter. I used the same longer bolts but added alignment cups w/washers to take up the slack.


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

metalskool said:


> I had also switched from 5" minions to 4" Jumbo Jims so that helped as well but this fork has been great so far. Now if I can get it dialed in. I find it feels better with lower pressures and softer damping/rebound settings. Maybe small bump compliance isn't great?


swapping from heavy big minions to smaller lighter JJ makes a HUGE difference...

Regarding the settings... What travel you have the fork set to? What pressure?

Without IRT: i had my 150 fork set to 83 psi, max rebound, half high speed comp, and 1 click of low speed comp. On my 120mm fork my clicker settings are the same, but i run 100 psi in it.

I found my pressure going up/up/up in order not to bottom out the fork, but this reduced small bump sensitivity and made for harsher ride. So, i went IRT.

With IRT: my current air pressure is 75 psi in the main chamber, and 150 in the IRT. makes for a way more plush ride, with small bump compliance being much much better. And the ramp is much more steeper to bottom. Totally worth it, IMHO.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

Rodney said:


> forr the last 3 years, I used finish line spray on my dropper, fork and shock after every ride. One mastodon has over 2000 hard miles on it, and the fork seals are still good. works for me. :thumbsup:


Thanks for commenting - that's been my sense, also. I was hoping that Dougal would chime-in with his opinion, too, based on his vast experience.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> Thanks for commenting - that's been my sense, also. I was hoping that Dougal would chime-in with his opinion, too, based on his vast experience.


I say don't lube the stanchions.

Low friction seals are made to leave a thin oil film on your stanchions already. You can see that with the glossy sheen. If you have no glossy sheen after pumping it a few times then your fork probably needs a lower leg service.


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## totem. (Jun 28, 2013)

Ive done some internet research about IRT kit for mastodon and finally choose one for mattoc pro/expert (141-32668-k003). It seems i was wrong; mechanic said it doesnt fit - cap has different diameter.
Question: is it possible to replace only cap or have to buy entire new set?

Manufacturing date of mastodon is 04/2019.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

Dougal said:


> I say don't lube the stanchions.
> 
> Low friction seals are made to leave a thin oil film on your stanchions already. You can see that with the glossy sheen. If you have no glossy sheen after pumping it a few times then your fork probably needs a lower leg service.


Many thanks for your additional thoughts!


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

totem. said:


> Ive done some internet research about IRT kit for mastodon and finally choose one for mattoc pro/expert (141-32668-k003). It seems i was wrong; mechanic said it doesnt fit - cap has different diameter.
> Question: is it possible to replace only cap or have to buy entire new set?
> 
> Manufacturing date of mastodon is 04/2019.


You don't mention Pro or Comp. I am using the Mattoc pro/expert IRT with both of my Mastodon Pro forks. I bought several IRTs and use them in both Mattocs as well as Mastodon. The Comp appears to not work w/o mods.


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## totem. (Jun 28, 2013)

Aresab said:


> You don't mention Pro or Comp. I am using the Mattoc pro/expert IRT with both of my Mastodon Pro forks. I bought several IRTs and use them in both Mattocs as well as Mastodon. The Comp appears to not work w/o mods.


its PRO EXT


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

120mm Mastodon pro std. This fork, combined with the super slack (for a fat bike) head angle, is a pretty awesome combo so far.

Really haven't had much time on it yet though and still need to get it dialed in as I am not getting full travel. Last 25mm or so will just not compress and I gave the fork a pretty good test this weekend so pretty sure it's not because it wasn't pushed. Think I might try messing around with the volume spacers.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

singletrackmack said:


> 120mm Mastodon pro std. This fork, combined with the super slack (for a fat bike) head angle, is a pretty awesome combo so far.
> 
> Really haven't had much time on it yet though and still need to get it dialed in as I am not getting full travel. Last 25mm or so will just not compress and I gave the fork a pretty good test this weekend so pretty sure it's not because it wasn't pushed. Think I might try messing around with the volume spacers.
> 
> ...


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

FitmanNJ said:


> If you don't mind, what kind of frame is that, and what do you figure the head angle is with your 120mm Mastodon Pro Standard, calculating in sag?


It's an RSD Mayor V4. With the 120mm fork, head angle should be about 65* static and ride at about 66* with sag.


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

singletrackmack said:


> It's an RSD Mayor V4. With the 120mm fork, head angle should be about 65* static and ride at about 66* with sag.


Mmm, that's an interesting setup you've got there. May need to look into that...


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

*any extended crown race to use the Mastodon?*



radair said:


> Bluto-Mastodon side by side and my B-fat Bucksaw with 120mm fork.


Radair,

Which 120mm fork did you get- Pro or Comp? Std or EXT versions? Did you happen to need a 5mm extended crown race to prevent downtube contact?

Hayes recommended the EXT version to clear 29+ but I have read that many people have ben getting along fine with the STD versions and say 29x3. I plan on running 29x3 Minion DHR 2 on a 35i carbon rim.

Thanks!


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Captain_America1976 said:


> This fork is massive. I replaced a 120mm Bluto on my B-Fat Bucksaw with a Mastodon. Since I didn't change the travel it didn't change the handling. Overall I can't imagine riding this bike with a 100mm fork. Riding this weekend for the most part I didn't notice the fork which is really good. It did what it should do, and it felt stiff. It was very similar to my Fox 34 as far as stiffness and overall feel. I can't really add much more that hasn't already been said. I am looking forward to getting more time on this.


Capt,

Which 120mm fork did you get- Pro or Comp? Std or EXT versions? Did you happen to need a 5mm extended crown race to prevent downtube contact?

Hayes recommended the EXT version to clear 29+ but I have read that many people have ben getting along fine with the STD versions and say 29x3. I plan on running 29x3 Minion DHR 2 on a 35i carbon rim.

I had the alloy version frame but this time I have a carbon Bucksaw frame 
Thanks!


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

FitmanNJ said:


> singletrackmack said:
> 
> 
> > 120mm Mastodon pro std. This fork, combined with the super slack (for a fat bike) head angle, is a pretty awesome combo so far.
> ...


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Staktup said:


> Capt,
> 
> Which 120mm fork did you get- Pro or Comp? Std or EXT versions? Did you happen to need a 5mm extended crown race to prevent downtube contact?
> 
> ...


After a little research, my frame is supposed to have a max A2C of 511mm. The Pro EXT at 120 has an A2C of 550, while the Pro EXT at 100 has an A2C of 530. I'm thinking if I run into a clearance issues I may need a 3 to 5mm tall crown race.

Thoughts on clearing 29x3 & 27.5x4 front wheels? Thanks in advance!


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

thanks to Dougal, i have serviced a quite a few mastodons now. I am getting quite comfortable with it. :thumbsup:

















Locally, i am becoming quite the Mastodon expert... Seems like everyone needs a service or a travel change. I think i have 2~3 more forks coming my way this week... 

The rebound damper piston was stuck in one of them. Using the Manitou sliced cassette tool, if you put too much pressure on it, it would skip and start to strip the damper nut. i was able to remove the seal and associated parts to get a standard cassette tool on the damper nut. I then needed a breaker bar and an assistant to hold the fork... GOT IT!! lucky for the fork, as i was going to use my impact gun or my air chisel next... :eekster:


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

Staktup said:


> Capt,
> 
> Which 120mm fork did you get- Pro or Comp? Std or EXT versions? Did you happen to need a 5mm extended crown race to prevent downtube contact?
> 
> ...


I think a 29 x 3 knobby tire like the DHR2 will require the spacer under the bump stop (EXT) to be safe
I have a 29 x 2.6 Ikon on 35mm rim and there's just enough clearance considering tire and rim deflection under load.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

rcracer2 said:


> I think a 29 x 3 knobby tire like the DHR2 will require the spacer under the bump stop (EXT) to be safe
> I have a 29 x 2.6 Ikon on 35mm rim and there's just enough clearance considering tire and rim deflection under load.


Hmm, thanks Racer. I ordered the Pro EXT version in 100mm to be safe since the head angle will be a wee bit slacker running 27.5x4F / 26x4R in winter and 29+F / 27.5R in summer. I'll report back on the DHR2 clearance.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Hello all,
I am hoping for some guidance here. I have a Mastodon comp 100 EXT.
I put a nick in the stanchion , and replacing the SCA (stanchion crown assembly) I had purchased through LBS as instructed by Hayes, when I received the new SCA it looked a bit long, so I called up Hayes support and they assured me it was the correct updated part for my fork. I am in the process of changing it, and not convinced it is correct. The part number on box says it is. but is longer than my existing part. Yes it will slide into the lowers without the guts. I temporarily screwed the air piston into the new unit and tried sliding it into my lowers and the travel is hindered the pics show the fork in full compression for comparison. Is this indeed a an updated part??? I am thinking this is a csa for the 120 -140 fork. Anyone have one apart that can give me measurments? Do I need to make changes to the spacer setup? Any help would be greatly appreciated.:madman:


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## akgrimace (Nov 28, 2014)

I'm guessing your original was for 80-100 mm travel and the new one is for 120-140mm travel.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Or there is a bump stop hindering the last few mm of stroke?? IDK, just speculation on my part.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blaster182 said:


> Hello all,
> I am hoping for some guidance here. I have a Mastodon comp 100 EXT.
> I put a nick in the stanchion , and replacing the SCA (stanchion crown assembly) I had purchased through LBS as instructed by Hayes, when I received the new SCA it looked a bit long, so I called up Hayes support and they assured me it was the correct updated part for my fork. I am in the process of changing it, and not convinced it is correct. The part number on box says it is. but is longer than my existing part. Yes it will slide into the lowers without the guts. I temporarily screwed the air piston into the new unit and tried sliding it into my lowers and the travel is hindered the pics show the fork in full compression for comparison. Is this indeed a an updated part??? I am thinking this is a csa for the 120 -140 fork. Anyone have one apart that can give me measurments? Do I need to make changes to the spacer setup? Any help would be greatly appreciated.:madman:


From short travel (short stanchion) to longer travel (long stanchion) the shafts are the same but the bottom-out bumpers on the short stanchions will have extra spacers underneath them.

These spacers should match the length difference in stanchion. Take them out and you're all good. If they don't match, then you need to juggle spacers so the new length of stanchion plus bottom out spacers match the old length of stanchion plus bottom out spacers.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Dougal said:


> From short travel (short stanchion) to longer travel (long stanchion) the shafts are the same but the bottom-out bumpers on the short stanchions will have extra spacers underneath them.
> 
> These spacers should match the length difference in stanchion. Take them out and you're all good. If they don't match, then you need to juggle spacers so the new length of stanchion plus bottom out spacers match the old length of stanchion plus bottom out spacers.


Thank you very much for your reply.
Ok, so as of 2019 all forks utilize the longer legs and I will need to remove some lower spacers and add 3 top out spacers p#121-29113 to achieve 100 mm travel. Contacted Hayes and they are sending me the top out spacers needed FOC! 😁👍


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

FYI Hayes is having a labor day sale for anyone who was waiting to pick one up:

https://hayesbicycle.com/collections/forks?page=1&rb_snize_facet1=Activity_Fat+Bike


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

So,
The saga continues, I received the top out spacers today from Hayes continued on with the CSA replacement, and yet another hitch when trying to install late model CSA, the old top caps will not thread into the new crown the new one has a smaller diameter hole and will not let the caps thread in. :madman: Gonna have to make another call to Hayes.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Blaster182 said:


> So,
> The saga continues, I received the top out spacers today from Hayes continued on with the CSA replacement, and yet another hitch when trying to install late model CSA, the old top caps will not thread into the new crown the new one has a smaller diameter hole and will not let the caps thread in. :madman: Gonna have to make another call to Hayes.


You have been given a CSA from a comp model. These have thicker stanchion walls than Pro so nothing will fit.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Just to reiterate I have a 2017 comp ext 100,
I believe the transition to the longer CSA was fazed in 2019 to give more travel options, 80-140
The part that I received was the updated part. The new 19 on have a small white dot on top of the iva cap which I believe is the smaller diameter one, and probably helps differentiate the long and short legs when assembled. For some reason they don't want you to mix the parts. I wonder if the shorter csa is still available? Will need to make another call. I'll keep you posted. Don't want anyone else going through this.
Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Bumpyride said:


> Sent you PM also. Looking at a small 2017 and want to put on the mastadon. Did the thicker race work for you? Thanks.


Cane Creek sells 3 & 6mm extended crown races; look under the Solutions tab (+3 or +6mm 52/40 alloy crown race)

https://canecreek.com/product/headset-parts-accessories/

I was able to use my existing split race and lower bearing from my Bucksaw with enough clearance. Anyone know how to post pics on this site?


----------



## justin51 (Mar 7, 2009)

Anyone interested in a 120mm Pro non EXT model??? I have less than 6 hours on it and it's just not what I wanted it to be. Don't get me wrong I really like it but it adds to much weight for my carbon build and its REALLY noticeable. I took one spill on it and has a scuff on the lower right of it and I can get pics, other than that it's mint. If anyone is interested let me know. Steerer tube length is 8 7/8"!!!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Staktup said:


> Cane Creek sells 3 & 6mm extended crown races; look under the Solutions tab (+3 or +6mm 52/40 alloy crown race)
> 
> https://canecreek.com/product/headset-parts-accessories/
> 
> I was able to use my existing split race and lower bearing from my Bucksaw with enough clearance. Anyone know how to post pics on this site?


Scroll down a bit and select "advanced" and there will be a button, "upload pictures"...



justin51 said:


> Anyone interested in a 120mm Pro non EXT model??? I have less than 6 hours on it and it's just not what I wanted it to be. Don't get me wrong I really like it but it adds to much weight for my carbon build and its REALLY noticeable. I took one spill on it and has a scuff on the lower right of it and I can get pics, other than that it's mint. If anyone is interested let me know.


I know that feeling all too well. Tried a squishy fork and didn't really care for the 90# sack of concrete on the handlebar feel. A little lower pressure in the front tire takes the edge off well enough but I would like a fork with a 520mm axle to crown to improve the stance of my bike. 
Also, do mention the steer length for folks to determine if your fork will serve their needs.


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## totem. (Jun 28, 2013)

*My2019 - hsc*

hi photo is sample from the internet but the knobs of my mastodon look the same
my problem is i cant turn separately black one ... is it fixed or i dont understand anything?

Ive bought the fork as a pro_ext_120


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Hayes has MY21 versions. Does anyone know what changed besides the look?
the regular (old ones) are 10% off (but not available)


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

HerrKaLeu said:


> Hayes has MY21 versions. Does anyone know what changed besides the look?
> the regular (old ones) are 10% off (but not available)


I have one- see post

https://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/manitou-mastodon-1039416.html#post14895823

When I was shopping I looked at the specs on both versions and the only difference I could see based on Hayes website is the looks.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

*Manitou as 100mm (26x4.8) now and 140mm 29 later*

I'm considering buying a Mastodon for my RSD Mayor with 26x4.8" tires (comes with 100mm EXT normally) and possibly use that fork later as a 140mm fork in a normal MTB (i.e. RSD Seargant or Wildcat). So i see adding this fork to my fatbike as a stop-gap till I decide what I do later with N+1 (HT or FS) and don't want to waste the expensive fork.

Would a 120mm STD work to convert to larger tire clearance at 100mm? the thread a few pages back suggests so and I read the travel change manual as suggested. On page 9 allegedly there is the solution, but I don't see how that changes tire clearance. Looking at the exploded view on page it seems the outer casing (item#4) is what has the arch and the distance of arch to axle should determine possible tire size. To me it looks like that outer casing is one piece and doesn't change size. Note thee also was a change in 2019 (the threads talking about this are from 2017).

My understanding is the Outer casing for the EXT must be different than for the STD. it also looks like the Crown Steerer Assembly for the XT is longer.

I think I kind of understand how adjusting the spacers changes travel. It also looks like (page 10) the COMP forks can travel 80-140mm (but they sell separate models for 80-100 and 120-140mm.

Could someone explain how the tire clearance of an STD changes? 
I'm sorry, I have no suspension fork experience.

And can I use one fork like the 100mm EXT now, and for 140 COMP later?
I would buy a new fork, so what i need is how that works for the 2019+ MY forks.


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I'm still trying to understand how the tire clearance is supposed to change by manipulating spacers. One limit to tire size is the height of the reverse arch. I really don't see how that changes with spacer changes. But after seeing some videos it seems the other part of tire clearance is how the tire may hit the bike frame, and travel spacer change could help with that.

Is the outer casing actually different between EXT and STD? That is what determines the arch height in relation to the axle, which would limit tire size (at least on an uncompressed fork).

The explosion view and part list on page 6 doesn't really seem to show a difference between EXT/STD and travel versions. Are the STD and EXT the very same fork, just different spacer setup and can be converted into each other?

The part I also don't understand is, the manual makes it look like the travel can be adjusted from 80 to 140 mm. Does that mean it doesn't matter if I buy a 100mm, or the 120mm version since spacer change can do any travel? If that is true, why do they sell 2 different travel versions (100, and 120mm) of each type?


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

Oh, I see the EXT has space to place 3 bottom out spacers spacers as opposed to only 1 for the STD. The EXT has less space for top-out spacers (although, I don't see how 6 spacers should fit which would be needed for the 80mm in the table).

That EXT spacer rod assembly also seems to be longer overall. Not sure if the graphics are true scale. 

so the difference between the EXT and STD is they artificially limit spacer options. So in theory if i install the EXT assembly into an STD, it should work like an STD and vice versa? 

That sill leaves the travel question. why are there 2 different travel versions sold for each type if i can change travel to any of 80-140mm?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

I believe the internals can be interchanged to upgrade/downgrade but will never change the distance from inside of the arch and axle. There may be two different castings that are shorter or longer...


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I'm going on the third season with my Mastodon. It still works great but I'm wondering if it should be overhauled soon. My go to bike shop changed hands recently so I'm between local options. Plus, I've gotten into the habit of sending my forks in for a factory overhaul every couple of seasons. (My non-fat mtbs both have MRP/WhiteBros forks and their factory overhaul service is great) Anyone have a recommendation for a good place to send my Mastodon for service?


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Anyone used the Push Industries 34mm seals on a mastadon (or mattoc)?


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

I contacted Hayes about the travel change since the manual makes it look like all can be adjusted 80-140mm. They said the NEW models can be adjusted 80-140mm. Since the travel change guide is called "2019+ models" I assume this is when they made it officially changeable. 

I just don't know why the vendors still sell separate models with either "100mm changeable to 80mm" and "120mm changeable to 140mm". I assume the tokens are pre-set for either 100mm or 120mm and the vendors just took over the old description.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

HerrKaLeu said:


> I contacted Hayes about the travel change since the manual makes it look like all can be adjusted 80-140mm. They said the NEW models can be adjusted 80-140mm. Since the travel change guide is called "2019+ models" I assume this is when they made it officially changeable.
> 
> I just don't know why the vendors still sell separate models with either "100mm changeable to 80mm" and "120mm changeable to 140mm". I assume the tokens are pre-set for either 100mm or 120mm and the vendors just took over the old description.


The 100mm versions had shorter stanchions.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

HerrKaLeu said:


> I contacted Hayes about the travel change since the manual makes it look like all can be adjusted 80-140mm. They said the NEW models can be adjusted 80-140mm. Since the travel change guide is called "2019+ models" I assume this is when they made it officially changeable.
> 
> I just don't know why the vendors still sell separate models with either "100mm changeable to 80mm" and "120mm changeable to 140mm". I assume the tokens are pre-set for either 100mm or 120mm and the vendors just took over the old description.


Damper shaft length, stanchion length...


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

HerrKaLeu said:


> I'm still trying to understand how the tire clearance is supposed to change by manipulating spacers. One limit to tire size is the height of the reverse arch. I really don't see how that changes with spacer changes.


The tire clearance is in reference to the axle to crown measurement when fully compressed. When fully compressed the arch is above the crown, they are not in the same plane.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Staktup said:


> Hmm, thanks Racer. I ordered the Pro EXT version in 100mm to be safe since the head angle will be a wee bit slacker running 27.5x4F / 26x4R in winter and 29+F / 27.5R in summer. I'll report back on the DHR2 clearance.


I don't know why my pics rotated, or how to fix it but 29x3 on a 35mm internal width rim fits with 3/4" or 20mm clearance on this 100 EXT Pro fork...


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## akt42 (Jan 29, 2011)

[/QUOTE]I don't know why my pics rotated, or how to fix it but 29x3 on a 35mm internal width rim fits with 3/4" or 20mm clearance on this 100 EXT Pro fork...

You need to completely deflate the fork and fully compress it to find out what the actual clearance is.[/QUOTE]


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

I don't know why my pics rotated, or how to fix it but 29x3 on a 35mm internal width rim fits with 3/4" or 20mm clearance on this 100 EXT Pro fork...

You need to completely deflate the fork and fully compress it to find out what the actual clearance is.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Yep, mine looks lime yours. Probably 25mm of clearance there.


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## Stormwalker (Feb 23, 2011)

Ok, so I see a bit of conflicting information here, so I wanted to ask:

Can a *new* (MY21) Mastodon 100mm be adjusted to 120mm switching the spacers around? It sounds like the older ones cannot.

It seems inventory is pretty much gone on 120mm forks, but I can find 100mm forks. If I can simply adjust the travel to 120mm, then I'll get one. Just not sure if there is a difference in stanchion or internals length.


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

wildh said:


> Anyone used the Push Industries 34mm seals on a mastadon (or mattoc)?


Just and FYI. I did use the Push 34 seals on the Mastadon pro. Fit was perfect. Although hard to determine if it was lubrication and service, stiction did seem improved.


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## Stormwalker (Feb 23, 2011)

If anyone is curious, I called Hayes and talked to someone. It is indeed true that the new Mastodon models you can adjust between the whole range of travel lengths on a given fork.


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## Blaster182 (Oct 29, 2016)

Yes, as of 2019 there is only one CSA length.


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## 2xdareya (Nov 3, 2020)

*Replacing rigid fork with Mastodon on hardtail - a-c/sag question*

Greetings: First post on mtbr. I'm fixing to buy a Mastodon Comp STD 120 to replace the rigid fork on my xl rigid fatbike. The bike has a 511 a-c, 69 hta, 73 sta, 32.4cm/12.8in bb height (lotsa pedal smacks now), and 45.6cm/18in chainstays. As noted in a review of the bike (I forget where), the front end sits low. Combined with the long cs, it makes the front end feeling heavy and hard to lift. I would like use the Mastodon to lift the front end a bit to raise bb and make the front end lift easier, which means I'm looking for a longer a-c (I know that there have been some posts on this thread saying that might not be the best solution, but for now I think it is). As is, the balance is actually pretty good, and it climbs with little, if any, front wheel wander (though the big tires/wheels definitely make climbing harder (I already weigh 220 geared up)).
My question has to do with a-c measurement and sag. I'm assuming Manitou's a-c measurements are fully extended. According to the Hayes site, the a-c on the comp std at 120 is 531; at 140 it is 551. At 20% sag (24mm (20% of 120) @ 120, 28mm (10% of 140mm) @ 140), that means at 120mm travel, the a-c is 507; at 20% sag the 140mm travel a-c is 523mm. 
I guess I'm looking for advice about handling, more than anything else. If I run this at 140mm the a-c with sag will be 12mm higher than with the stock rigid fork, but as I go deeper into the travel (beyond 20%), the front end will also go lower - not something I'm sure I want to do.
Should I go ext, thereby adding another 16mm (20mm - 20% for sag) of height?
I've read this thread start to finish, and it is super helpful - thanks to all for the great information and insights.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Had anyone used a bushing tool to burnish(?) Them to the correct size?

Even after fresh service mine seemed to go downhill quickly as far as stiction.

Plus one leg has the black coating worn off: (

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## xplor (Dec 19, 2011)

Hello Dougal
Thanks for all of your input on the Mastodon forks. Definitely went for the std because of you  I have two questions if you have time?

1.
Will the extra travel spacers they sent in the box with the 120 pro std work as bottom out spacers (used for larger diameter tires)? Or do I need to order a different part number? I could not pull up your spacer reference...

2.
Other than convenience... any issues adjusting for 140-150 mm of travel, but compressing the fork while removing the pump, (air pump trick) for less travel

Would like to check how much the ride will change with the changes in geometry. Front end loosing it's bite or still fine, et cetera. Wasn't sure if it would damage anything restricting it down to mid stroke.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

xplor said:


> Hello Dougal
> Thanks for all of your input on the Mastodon forks. Definitely went for the std because of you  I have two questions if you have time?
> 
> 1.
> ...


They will work as bottom out spacers on the air side. The damper side uses spigoted spacers.

No problem at all using the pump trick to lower the fork.


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## xplor (Dec 19, 2011)

Thanks for the quick reply!!!

Do you have a part designation for the damper side spigot style? Unfortunately I live in the States, so probably silly to order from you down there...

Sorry, couldn't open that earlier reference you had... When you mentioned you had them in stock.


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## pelts79 (Feb 29, 2008)

MY buddys comp lock out does not work, any idea of what is wrong, oil level?


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## Rumblefish2010 (Mar 29, 2012)

If someone is curious going coil on your mastodon, I can say it will fit a push coil in it.
I have taken a top out spring and taken off the x ring and slyde ring on piston. It is set up with approx 135mm travel.

Anyone who knows if there is possible to take off 1 of the 3 bottom out spacers on a EXT version and still be able to not rub with Bontrager Gnarwhal 27.5 rubber?


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

pelts79 said:


> MY buddys comp lock out does not work, any idea of what is wrong, oil level?


First check the knob clocking, then pull the compression damper out the top and check oil level. Should be 87mm down at full extension.


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## UtahJohn (Feb 6, 2014)

Are these forks going to ever be available again? I want a Mastodon pro 100mm Extended, it's like a unicorn.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

UtahJohn said:


> Are these forks going to ever be available again? I want a Mastodon pro 100mm Extended, it's like a unicorn.


I may be wrong but I believe those forks are on the 2 bikes that finally arrived for me today:


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

UtahJohn said:


> Are these forks going to ever be available again? I want a Mastodon pro 100mm Extended, it's like a unicorn.


There's no need to look for a 100mm EXT. A 120 STD with 20mm bottom-out spacers is the same fork.

We only stock the 150 EXT versions at Shockcraft now, because we can space them up or down to fill every usage.


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## UtahJohn (Feb 6, 2014)

I did not know that, but it appears they are just as difficult to find ATM.



Dougal said:


> There's no need to look for a 100mm EXT. A 120 STD with 20mm bottom-out spacers is the same fork.
> 
> We only stock the 150 EXT versions at Shockcraft now, because we can space them up or down to fill every usage.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

UtahJohn said:


> I did not know that, but it appears they are just as difficult to find ATM.


Most of everything is out of stock worldwide. Hayes are showing nothing in their warehouse. I have two Mastodons in stock right now.


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## UtahJohn (Feb 6, 2014)

Anything in USA?


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

I’m having an issue with my new used 120 pro. I started to notice a clunk in the first part of the travel, so I depressurized it slowly then added pressure again, cycling through the travel every 20 psi. Brought it back up to 62 indicated on two different pumps but it still feels like 0 psi. Only when I air down again does it feel even slightly firm. Any ideas?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Brad Pitted said:


> I'm having an issue with my new used 120 pro. I started to notice a clunk in the first part of the travel, so I depressurized it slowly then added pressure again, cycling through the travel every 20 psi. Brought it back up to 62 indicated on two different pumps but it still feels like 0 psi. Only when I air down again does it feel even slightly firm. Any ideas?


Just making sure, you are disconnecting the pump then checking it?
If you leave the pump on the fork will compress.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Brad Pitted said:


> I'm having an issue with my new used 120 pro. I started to notice a clunk in the first part of the travel, so I depressurized it slowly then added pressure again, cycling through the travel every 20 psi. Brought it back up to 62 indicated on two different pumps but it still feels like 0 psi. Only when I air down again does it feel even slightly firm. Any ideas?


Depressurize and then invert the fork, cycle it through its travel and reinflate. Had to do this om my '16 Magnum a couple times.

With the pump attached, you would see a spike in pressure when the fork is compressed.


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

Thanks for the replies. I got it aired up last night but still wasn’t sure what the issue was. So as long as the pump is connected, it acts as an air can of sorts? Never seen that with any other fork. 
Needless to say, I’m glad to be going riding today instead packing up a fork for service. I don’t think I would enjoy going back to the bluto for any length of time.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Yay! Come on, let's ride!!!


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## Stormwalker (Feb 23, 2011)

For the folks asking about where to get a fork, when I talked to a Hayes representative back when I made my previous post (almost a month ago?) I also asked about inventory/availability. The guy I talked to said that they would be ready to ship out to bike shops within a couple of weeks (at the time of our conversation). He said that the best way to get one soon would be to contact a local bike shop, as it will take longer to have them listed and available on their own site at Hayes, along with the online retailers.

I don't know the reasoning or causes behind any of this, or actual availability, I'm just relaying what the Hayes representative told me over the phone when I called them.


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

Basic query. Is a deepset socket sufficient for a lower leg service or do I have to throw down for the super special thinwalled manitou socket?


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## wildh (Jun 20, 2011)

Brad Pitted said:


> Basic query. Is a deepset socket sufficient for a lower leg service or do I have to throw down for the super special thinwalled manitou socket?


It needs to be thin and long. Super annoying when they could have just made it easy like the mezzer. I personally just made one by grinding down a socket.


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## justin51 (Mar 7, 2009)

If anyone is interested I have have a Mastodon for sale..... Has less the 200 miles on it and the steer tube is cut at 8 3/4, it's the 120mm pro version. Asking $525 plus shipping.

I also have a front hub conversion from 135MM to 150MM used the same amount of miles for $30.

Nothing wrong with either I have picturesI just want to keep my carbon bike as light as possible, you can reach me at 920-277-2365.

Thanks,


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## hls811 (Jul 10, 2020)

How can I tell whether I should go 100 or 120mm? I’m replacing the stock rigid fork on my Cannondale FatCAAD2. Can I go with either side?

pros/cons to either?


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

I went with a 100mm on my fat bike. The longer the fork the more it will slacken out your head tube geometry. I've never bottomed out my 100mm Mastodons.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

They have commonized the part except for the 150 EXT so you can build up whatever travel and A-C length you want. They no longer sell a 100mm version but you can make one; also looks like the comps have been discontinued for this year


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## bagsack (Apr 11, 2021)

Dougal said:


> The addition of spacers in the STD will stop the spikes hitting the crown. With 2x10mm spacers in each side it has the same clearance as the EXT.
> 
> A-C will be dictated by clearance and travel.


Is there any guide to how this is done?

I have a 100 mm STD pro, with it came a set of 4 spacers. If I add these to each side will this make the fork safe with 4.8s?

Or should I just follow the mastodone spacer guide Mastodon and place the same set of spacers as is shown in the spacer guide?

Are we talking a modification of the STD version or are the parts used in the EXT excactly the same?


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Does anyone know where to get a 150mm travel Pro standard Mastodon?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

kntr said:


> Does anyone know where to get a 150mm travel Pro standard Mastodon?








Manitou Mastodon | Shockcraft







www.shockcraft.co.nz





Check out our resident suspension expert. Has them in all sizes!

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Shark said:


> Manitou Mastodon | Shockcraft
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Im in the USA.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Just giving you an option. I don't know anyone in the us that has the 150mm version.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## bagsack (Apr 11, 2021)

I want the 100 ext and have the 100 std. When you say "add 2 spacers in bottom", dont this mean I have to remove 2 from the top? Or are the actual rods diffrent in the ext and std?


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## Phiu-x (Mar 23, 2010)

bagsack said:


> View attachment 1927298
> 
> I want the 100 ext and have the 100 std. When you say "add 2 spacers in bottom", dont this mean I have to remove 2 from the top? Or are the actual rods diffrent in the ext and std?


The std vs ext has nothing to do with travel length. The "ext" denomination of these fork mean they can fit bigger tires (higher axle to crown)

Length adjust is a matter of reorganizing the top and bottom spacers

If you have a STD model at the stock 100mm, I don't think you can convert it to 120mm travel if you have 327mm leg length, but don't quote me on this has I only have converted a 80 mm (327mm leg length) to a 100 mm (still 327mm leg length). The reason is that 120mm+ fork have 367mm leg length instead of 327mm for 100mm and 80mm models.

"Before modifying travel, confirm that leg length (shown below) matches the leg length of the
desired travel setting. Measured leg length may vary slightly due to manufacturing Tolerances and
measurement method."

==> But you can open it and try this because you might have a 120mm set to 100mm....<==

"Depending on the crown steerer assembly (CSA) your fork was built with you may have a few travel
change options. The 120mm can convert to 140mm. The 150 EXT is fixed at its travel.
EXAMPLE: The Mastodon Pro STD is set at 120 with three travel spacers. Removing one 10mm
spacer will set it at 130. Removing two 10mm will set the fork at 140mm as seen below."

Here is how you would do it :

#1
There are TOP and Bottom spacers

A 100mm fork has 5 bottom spacers and 1 top spacer
A 120 mm fork has 1 bottom spacers and 3 top spacers

So if you want to get to 120mm from a 100mm you would remove 4 spacers on the bottom and add 2 on the top (use some of those you removed from the bottom)

Important :
NOTE: THE SAME NUMBER OF BOTTOM-OUT SPACERS SHOULD BE PRESENT ON BOTH
THE AIR SPRING AND REBOUND ASSEMBLIES FOR A GIVEN TRAVEL.

#2
Do not forget about IVA (left side when sitting on the bike) There are spacers to adjust in this top chamber too :

"All Mastodon assemblies are equipped with incremental volume adjust (IVA) air spring volume may
be adjusted by moving the piston up or down to modify the ramp-up of the air spring. If the travel
is adjusted, the IVA piston height should also be adjusted to maintain the air spring rate."

100mm travel has 2 spacers above and 2 below piston
120mm travel has 1 above, 3 below

So if you want to get to 120mm from a 100mm you would remove 1 spacer above and put it below the piston
Note : If you have IRT (air) instead of IVA (spacers) this is irrelevant and you can skip this step.

All this on page 9 and 10 from the guide you took a screenshot from.
Note: The above is only true for a 100mm STD fork (does not matter if its PRO or COMP) . Of course there are others values in the guide for EXT forks

All the guides here : Mastodon

Good luck!


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## Rodney (Dec 17, 2006)

kntr said:


> Im in the USA.


so am I. I bought my latest Mastodon from Shockcraft. Super fast shipping too! #thumbup


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I think my HSC knob is jammed (came that way).


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

Mine was really stiff out of the box. I removed the lever and didn't see anything wrong so I "helped" it get moving with a pliers, replaced the lever and all is good. It's still quite stiff but seems OK.

BTW, I haven't seen it posted in this thread (but it's a long thread, I may have missed it) but for those wanting to upgrade to the IRT for the new forks with the fine threads you need:


*Mattoc IRT Upgrade Kit Fine Thread 2020+ (Manitou)*​HB-141-32668-K010​

Available at Shockcraft. I'm currently only using the cap with the IVA so I can get the tuning dialed with a Shockwiz. Once I think I have that nailed 100% I'll decide if I want to give the IRT a try....


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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

I just did a service to my 120 mm Pro Std Mastodon, but now I don't get full travel anymore. It "sucks" back about 30 mm so the fork has just 90 mm travel. 
I tried manually extend it (this works so it's not stuck) fully and then open the valve (press the needle), it helped maybe 5-10 mm. 
I also tired manually extend it and while at full extend I added 80 PSI but even after that it got suck back in.

Does this sound familiar?
I followed the manual as well as I could but maybe I made a mistake or forgot something?


Thanks


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Did you try leaving the pump connected, extend it and hold it, then remove pump?

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## edu2 (Jan 14, 2007)

Well that did the trick. Thanks a lot Shark


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Mine did the same thing after my last service and I scratched my head over it for a few minutes

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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Ok, so where is the travel change procedure? There's some vague documents from manitou, but no steps and nothing that says what to do with the damper side. Does the damper have spacers in it just like the air spring? So you have to crack open both the damper and the air leg to get at the spacers below the cap? I took out the spacer under the air piston for 140mm of travel, but my fork is still at 120mm.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Nevermind, was looking at the wrong document.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, except that the Mastedon Pro/Comp travel change document shows 0 top out spacers for 140mm ext and the document that came with my fork (pro ext) shows one top out spacer for 140mm ext. Which one is right?


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

I tend to believe the 2019+ document (your first pic) as it agrees with what Dougal has said earlier in the thread, while what came with the fork implies a different air spring shaft length between the STD and EXT which he says is no longer the case. Regardless, to change a 120 EXT to 140mm travel, you just need to pull out two spacers. Which two depends on your use case--you can actually set it up for 140mm travel in three different configurations with 367mm leg length:

If you aren't going to run 27.5X4.5's or 26X5's and have no need for the EXT tire clearance, you can simply remove two bottom out spacers on each side. This will basically put it into the STD 140 config and keep your Axle to Crown constant:










If you are going to run the biggest tire sizes and want that much clearance, you would leave the three bottom out spacers and remove two top out spacers. This will maintain ample tire clearance for the biggest of tires but increase your A-C by 20mm.

Or, you could remove one of each giving you 140mm of travel, 10mm more tire clearance than STD and 10mm less than EXT and increasing your A-C 10mm as an "in-between" config.

The thing to remember is for EXT tire clearance, you need to keep three bottom out spacers. For STD clearance, you only need 1 bottom out spacer. Then how many top out spacers you can remove will be set by how long an A-C you and your frame can handle (as long as you don't exceed 150mm total travel as shown in the STD 150 config for 367mm leg length).

I agree with many here that Manitou's tire clearance guidelines are excessively conservative. With 27.5X4" Vanhelgas (which are pretty darn tall, taller than 26X4.8's) I have more than enough clearance to make me happy in the STD config with 1 bottom out spacer on each side.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well, except that the Mastedon Pro/Comp travel change document shows 0 top out spacers for 140mm ext and the document that came with my fork (pro ext) shows one top out spacer for 140mm ext. Which one is right?
> 
> View attachment 1932618
> View attachment 1932621


EXT 150 is the special one that has stanchions 10mm longer than all the other forks and different shafts. That's where the difference in spacers is.

Only air side changes top-out spacers. Both sides need to have matching number (but different type of) bottom-out spacers.
Which variant have you got?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> EXT 150 is the special one that has stanchions 10mm longer than all the other forks and different shafts. That's where the difference in spacers is.
> 
> Only air side changes top-out spacers. Both sides need to have matching number (but different type of) bottom-out spacers.
> Which variant have you got?


I have the ext pro, not the longer stanchion version. I measured yesterday. I got it set up to 140 though now. The information above is real good to know. I might bring the a-to-c lower with that at some point.


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## Lastouille (Dec 12, 2019)

Hi all,

I ordered a Canyon Dude today, the one with carbon fork, because I wasn't sure of the geometry of the suspended fork version with the Mastodon Pro EXT 120mm.

And I found this thread.

So, if I'm not mistaken, there are only two different forks since 2019 ? The 150 mm and the shorter one ? 
Which means that I could buy any of the short stanchion one, and play with the spacers to get, at will, a 100mm, 120mm or 140mm, and for each length of travel 2 different tirer clearance ? 

Am I right ?

Thanks


----------



## ebolamonkey (Nov 18, 2020)

Just got a Mastodon COMP STD 100 used for $400 shipped. Should be getting here shortly and installed on a 2021 Mongoose Dolomite ALX.


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## Phiu-x (Mar 23, 2010)

Blaster182 said:


> Thank you very much Dougal! 👍


So did it work. Bought this kit in 2019 reading this comment. This kit install correctly but does not fully lock the ABS+ Damper on the Mastodon Comp there is about 9-10 click with the manual top cap but the remote only itncur only a 80 degree rotation of the cap which equals about 4 clicks. For this remote to work fully with this fork it would have to rotate at least 180 degree. No way it work. Milo is not compatible with Mastodon. Cost me 60$ to learn this.


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## Lastouille (Dec 12, 2019)

Hey,

I finally bought one, sold as a 120 pro ext.
Fork works great, except that it has a free play feeling on very small bumps, as if I had some free play at the steering headset. But it has not, it comes from the fork, the first millimeters of travel.
I depressurized the main air valve, did it first upside down and mounted on the bike, and then I unmounted it, extend to full travel, and they pressurized it again according to manufacturer specifications, but it doesn't change the problem. I noticed, when unmounted and trying to get full travel, that there are still a few millimeters that I can't get if I pulled the fork out (i.e. I can get them if I pull, but then it comes back to original position).
Can it be this ? How can I solve this issue ? 

I sent an email to Hayes, I'll see if they answer me.

Thanks


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## Brad In A Van (Nov 26, 2017)

Will the regular version clear a 29x3 that’s not aggressive, like a WTB Ranger? Or must you use the extended version for any 29x3? I have a Wednesday and I don’t want to drop a 100mm fork down to 80mm just to get the crown to axle in the ballpark of what Surly recommends.


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## on58960 (Mar 19, 2016)

Dougal said:


> You've got the longer stanchions?
> 
> I've been conversing with the Engineers at Hayes this past week. We had our first Mastodon through.
> 
> ...


Hello, would you happen to have the exact part you ordered to get the Pro to clear your Trek please? I finally got a fork and the knobs won't clear on my 2016 Farley 5.

Thanks!


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## jpaa (Oct 2, 2014)

Hi, I have the Trek Farley 9.6 (2018 model) and the frame size is 17.5''. I updated my rigid carbon fork to the Mastodon Pro Ext 120mm version. The Mastodon comes with the shorter knobs, and I had no issues in frame clearance. Oh my gosh, what a change form slow trail riding to most fun ride ever!


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## jpaa (Oct 2, 2014)

I also made a video...


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## on58960 (Mar 19, 2016)

jpaa said:


> Hi, I have the Trek Farley 9.6 (2018 model) and the frame size is 17.5''. I updated my rigid carbon fork to the Mastodon Pro Ext 120mm version. The Mastodon comes with the shorter knobs, and I had no issues in frame clearance. Oh my gosh, what a change form slow trail riding to most fun ride ever!


My bike is a 2016 Farley 5, I had to use a Crane Creek + 6mm race and now my Mastodon fork clears my frame by just under 1/4 inch. Prior to adding the CC race it was just scraping the frame with the fork lockout (knob) all the way open. I'm running a STD 120 fork and in my opinion the bike feels perfect now with just enough slackness and the tire out in front vs. the rigid geometry. The fork completely changes the ride characteristics. I had no idea what I was missing.


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## Niko (Feb 2, 2006)

I'm looking at buying a mastodon but I cant decide if spending extra on the pro version is worth the upgrade. Pro vs comp what are your thoughts?


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## metalskool (Feb 6, 2019)

Niko said:


> I'm looking at buying a mastodon but I cant decide if spending extra on the pro version is worth the upgrade. Pro vs comp what are your thoughts?


I got the Pro for the weight savings. If you're already spending that much dough on the comp what a few bucks more?


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## FatboyFarleyFuse1977 (Jan 29, 2020)

jpaa said:


> Hi, I have the Trek Farley 9.6 (2018 model) and the frame size is 17.5''. I updated my rigid carbon fork to the Mastodon Pro Ext 120mm version. The Mastodon comes with the shorter knobs, and I had no issues in frame clearance. Oh my gosh, what a change form slow trail riding to most fun ride ever!


Looks great, I'm trying to decide if I want to Mastadon my 9.6 or the Special Ed Fatboy carbon. It might be fun to try the fork on both and decide which feels better.


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

FatboyFarleyFuse1977 said:


> Looks great, I'm trying to decide if I want to Mastadon my 9.6 or the Special Ed Fatboy carbon. It might be fun to try the fork on both and decide which feels better.


What's going on around your seat tube there?


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## jpaa (Oct 2, 2014)

rcracer2 said:


> What's going on around your seat tube there?


Me? It is just inner tube piece to wrapped around to prevent water going in.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I need advice. I had my Mastodon serviced recently and it now doesn't get full travel. It hits a hard stop with about 4cm of stanchion showing. I did ask them to reduce travel from 120 to 100 because it made my bike too slack but I don't think that happened. The IVA stack is still in the 120mm configuration and with a shock pump attached there is nearly 140m of stanchion showing when fully extended. Maybe they made the spacer adjustment on the spring but not on the IVA? Would that cause the travel limit? I'm not comfortable dropping the spring without a better idea of what I'm dealing with so I can't check it myself. I'm going to call the shop that handled the overhaul and see what they think but does anyone have an idea of what might be causing this? The rubber o-ring shown here is where the travel stops, even with the shock fully deflated.


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

It looks like they added bottom-out spacers when you wanted them to add top-out spacers.










Assuming your fork was a 120mm EXT and you wanted 100mm EXT config, they should have added 2 top-out spacers. This would reduce your axle to crown 20mm but the fork would compress just as far as it did before at full compression.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Thanks, Jon, I think that's exactly what they did! Does anyone know if I'll lose damper oil if I drop the lowers to adjust the spacers?


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## sb1616ne (Feb 13, 2008)

I know this question must have been asked but I can’t find it spelled out. There are two different travel configurations for these forks from the factory correct? The 100mm that can be ran 80 or 100 and the 120mm that can be ran from 100 to 150mm. Am I correct?


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

The 120 can only go to 140mm travel. The 150mm is a fork all by it self from Manitou


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## FatAK (Sep 19, 2021)

sb1616ne said:


> I know this question must have been asked but I can’t find it spelled out. There are two different travel configurations for these forks from the factory correct? The 100mm that can be ran 80 or 100 and the 120mm that can be ran from 100 to 150mm. Am I correct?


I've seen the Pro Standard in 100 or 120,
the Pro EXT offered in 100, 120 or 150,
the Comp Standard & EXT in 100, 120

Newer models seem to be more adjustable.

If you are talking about a recent fork, check out the Mastodon Pro Comp Travel Change Guide 2019 To Present.pdf at: https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036017874-Mastodon

Page 11: "Pro STD models are adjustable from 100-150mm"
Page 12: "Comp models are adjustable from 80-140mm"

Otherwise refer to the Mastodon Pro-Comp Travel Change Guide 2018.pdf


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

Yeah, I don't think they make the short ones anymore. Unless you have a 150 EXT (the one with longer legs that I crossed out of the chart for clarity) which you probably won't happen upon accidentally, all newer Pros can be changed to any configuration in the chart. A few months ago I picked up a 100mm STD for my E-Fat because that's what I found in stock, and promptly changed it to 130mm EXT config.


SteveF said:


> Thanks, Jon, I think that's exactly what they did! Does anyone know if I'll lose damper oil if I drop the lowers to adjust the spacers?


Yes, you will lose fork oil from the lowers. You don't need to mess with the damper though, the top out spacers only go on the air side. But you want the same number of bottom out spacers on both sides.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

Question.

I have a comp 100 on a large otso frame. I just picked up a 120 pro that was on a small otso frame. Can I switch the upper assembly (crown, steerer tube and stanchions) to fit the pro lowers on my large otso?


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## ahti (May 4, 2021)

The rebound knob on my mastodon just got stuck. Small play to both directions but doesn't move a single click. Will I regret trying to force it to move? Though I have no idea which direction..


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## 300hp (Apr 23, 2008)

What a great thread, love seeing some proper tech after a bit of a hiatus from here.

I'm about to snag a MY21100mm comp, because that is what is available locally to me. So much of the great info in this thread appears dedicated to the pro versions of the fork. 

I have two questions still, feel free to chide me and point me in the right direction with a link.

1. Can the newer MY21 longer stanchioned comp forks be spaced out from STD to EXT? That is, can the 100 comp STD be run as a 120mm EXT.

2. Does a new in package 2021 Mastodon contain additional air and bottom out spacers such that say a 100mm comp could be set up as a 120mm comp (or ext) without additional parts?

THANK YOU!

Hunter.


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## roja_dude (Jul 19, 2006)

I have a Canyon Dude with the stock Mastodon Comp 100. It came with a shock pump. Are there any instructions online for how to check and adjust the air pressure? I don't want to accidentally mess something up.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

^ https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...nts/360055902334/Mastodon_Pro_Set-upGuide.pdf


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## ahti (May 4, 2021)

300hp said:


> 1. Can the newer MY21 longer stanchioned comp forks be spaced out from STD to EXT? That is, can the 100 comp STD be run as a 120mm EXT.
> 
> 2. Does a new in package 2021 Mastodon contain additional air and bottom out spacers such that say a 100mm comp could be set up as a 120mm comp (or ext) without additional parts?


1. Yes, at least I modified my pro STD to EXT. Needed bottom-out spacers were not included with the fork. This page has info which type of spacers you need for each fork: Mastodon 10mm Travel Spacer Kit (Manitou) | Shockcraft

2. The pro package had a few extra travel spacers, but like said no bottom-out spacers. But those are not ideal for travel reduction anyway as they keep the height. Removing travel spacers(aka top-out spacers) will also reduce height. And by far the easiest method is just removing the shock pump at desired height. 

Can't say how different the comp version is from pro so don't know how helpful my experience is. I'd suggest reading the manitou manuals/service guides carefully in addition to this thread. There's also some inaccurate info out there. I took the risk of ordering the STD version without knowing whether everything for the modification to EXT was included. And it was a long wait for the needed extra spacers from NZ...


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

I have two month old (2021) Mastodon Comp EXT. Recently with colder temperatures (-15 C); the fork is not rebounding and seems to be stuck in a compressed state. I attached a shock pump and the travel returned to normal but after a bit of riding; the fork sags all the way down again.

Any idea what's going on?


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

pwd666 said:


> I have two month old Mastodon Comp. Recently with colder temperatures (-15 C); the fork is not rebounding and seems to be stuck in a compressed state. I attached a shock pump and the travel returned to normal but after a bit of riding; the fork sags all the way down again.
> 
> Any idea what's going on?


What year model? I would try releasing all air, then adding air back in increments of 25 psi and then pushing down on the fork several times and then keep inflating; repeat until proper sag is achieved. This may help equalize the pos & neg chambers to avoid the issue you are experiencing.


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

It's a two month old 2021 fork. Doesn't it equalize the chambers when a shock pump is attached?


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

pwd666 said:


> It's a two month old 2021 fork. Doesn't it equalize the chambers when a shock pump is attached?


No clue as my Pro EXT was bought new in Aug 2020 & has the red decals. The above procedure worked for me but maybe MY 21 is different


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

pwd666 said:


> I have two month old (2021) Mastodon Comp EXT. Recently with colder temperatures (-15 C); the fork is not rebounding and seems to be stuck in a compressed state. I attached a shock pump and the travel returned to normal but after a bit of riding; the fork sags all the way down again.
> 
> Any idea what's going on?


I think I'm seeing the same issue with my 2021 Comp EXT. It felt like it was bottoming out too easily, so I deflated it and added one more token below the spacer on the volume adjust. Re-inflated slowly. Worked well for a couple of rides, but things got cold here again (-20C when I was out yesterday morning) and the fork seems to be in the bad state again... Not rebounding all the way, and too easy to move through the last bit of travel so it bottoms out. 

FWIW I'm a heavy rider at 240lbs geared up. 

Today I'm going to try taking it all apart and upping the travel to 120mm (It's at 100 now.) Maybe the extra height will help avoid this situation? If you come up with a solution here, let me know...


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

Now that I think about it... Can anyone tell me: The stock configuration for my comp fork has 2 spacers above the seal and two spacers below the seal on the volume adjust. If I want to make the shock stiffer at the end of the travel, I would REDUCE the air volume, and this means moving spacers from below the seal to above the seal... Right? 

On a RockShox fork I'd add tokens. The equivalent operation on the Mastodon would be to move spacers above the seal, correct?


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

The weather has warmed up (-10C and warmer) and the fork appears to be working fine after I attached a pump and gave it a few more pumps. When I attached the pump with the front wheel off the ground; the travel extended back out from its compressed state. I suppose that means that the positive and negative chambers were equalized at that point.


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

pwd666 said:


> The weather has warmed up (-10C and warmer) and the fork appears to be working fine after I attached a pump and gave it a few more pumps. When I attached the pump with the front wheel off the ground; the travel extended back out from its compressed state. I suppose that means that the positive and negative chambers were equalized at that point.


So this EXACT same thing happened to me. I took the fork off the bike and brought it inside. Decided to record the pressure before doing anything, and as soon as I attached the pump the fork sprung back to full travel. 

So what's happening here? Some valve between chambers is freezing?


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

kbeefy said:


> Now that I think about it... Can anyone tell me: The stock configuration for my comp fork has 2 spacers above the seal and two spacers below the seal on the volume adjust. If I want to make the shock stiffer at the end of the travel, I would REDUCE the air volume, and this means moving spacers from below the seal to above the seal... Right?
> 
> On a RockShox fork I'd add tokens. The equivalent operation on the Mastodon would be to move spacers above the seal, correct?


I would guess the same but I've never done it yet


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

kbeefy said:


> So this EXACT same thing happened to me. I took the fork off the bike and brought it inside. Decided to record the pressure before doing anything, and as soon as I attached the pump the fork sprung back to full travel.
> 
> So what's happening here? Some valve between chambers is freezing?


That's what it seems like. I had the bike out for a ride again last night in -20C and the fork started sagging again and not returning to normal travel. I contacted the shop where I purchased it from and they are going to send it for a rebuild. They said "it might be a bypass in the system"; not sure exactly what they mean but fingers crossed.


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## ErnestoB (12 mo ago)

Ok, I've been riding my 2017 Mukluk (medium) carbon for a while, but am jealous of friend's bikes with shocks. So I did a little research and ordered a Pro 120mm EXT. Doing a bit more research, I believe I was a bit trigger happy, but it will be here in a few days and I have no problem sending it back. Doing more research, I think I should go with a Pro 120 STD. But here are the facts:

An email to Salsa tells me to get a 100mm Bluto, and that a Mastodon might work, 100mm with a 3mm crown spacer. 511mm a-c maximum
Hayes website sez my tires (Dillinger 5, studded) are not ok with the standard, that I have to use the extended.
The ridefatbikes shock shootout says that the Pro STD 120 has an a-c measurement of 508 when set to the correct sag. So this fork would seem to work within Salsa's standards even with the 3mm spacer. They also say the Manitou tire size charts are too conservative. They highly recommend the 120 STD.
Other research (this forum has been great--thank you) indicates that others have Mastodons on their Mukluks with no problem.
In that I don't want to jack up the front end unnesessarily (I like the way the bike rides now) I don't want to do anything that mucks up the geometry too much, but I would like the additional travel of the 120.

Anyone care to point me in the right direction here? Or should I just stick with the Kingpin fork--it's nice and light.

TIA
ernie


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

What's the fun if buying a nice bike part without trying it? Sell it if you don't like it. People will buy it.


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

ErnestoB said:


> Ok, I've been riding my 2017 Mukluk (medium) carbon for a while, but am jealous of friend's bikes with shocks. So I did a little research and ordered a Pro 120mm EXT. Doing a bit more research, I believe I was a bit trigger happy, but it will be here in a few days and I have no problem sending it back. Doing more research, I think I should go with a Pro 120 STD. But here are the facts:
> 
> An email to Salsa tells me to get a 100mm Bluto, and that a Mastodon might work, 100mm with a 3mm crown spacer. 511mm a-c maximum
> Hayes website sez my tires (Dillinger 5, studded) are not ok with the standard, that I have to use the extended.
> ...


If the model you bought is a newer version, 2019 or later all of the Mastodon Pros use the same length stanchons; EXT vs STD should be a spacer configuration. See the travel change guide here:


https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036017874-Mastodon


On page 9 of the guide it mentions the stanchion length of 367 for all models and a DOT on the IVA cap. They typically come with extra spacers to make changes.


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## ErnestoB (12 mo ago)

Staktup said:


> What's the fun if buying a nice bike part without trying it? Sell it if you don't like it. People will buy it.


that's an option. I might see if I can mount it up to see what's up, though I anticipate the usual 3 trips to my LBS for extra parts and tools. ain't nothin' easy


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## ErnestoB (12 mo ago)

Aresab said:


> If the model you bought is a newer version, 2019 or later all of the Mastodon Pros use the same length stanchions; EXT vs STD should be a spacer configuration. See the travel change guide here:
> 
> 
> https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036017874-Mastodon
> ...


I have seen mention of this before, but somehow I was under the impression that either the stanchions and/or the "crown steerer assembly (CSA) (we used to call it the "fork") were different in order to accommodate bigger tires (hence the EXT designation). So are these forks identical except in the order they're assembled? (except for the 150 of course). I see from the parts list that, indeed, they are. 

So I'm starting to get it, I think. You can change spacers to either raise or lower the fork "ride height" to STD or EXT and/or you can change the shock travel distance using a different spacer arrangement. The difference between STD and EXT is simply a different number of "bottom out" spacers.

Is this correct? Thanks Aresab so much for pushing me in the right direction

Ergo, assuming the fork arrives with the appropriate dot on the IVA cap, maybe I'll just put it in, EXT 120, and see if it fits. Then I can ride it to see what I might want to do to it. So what if I void my frame warranty...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

26 Dillinger 5 fits fine in normal non-ext version, but only about .3” of vertical clearance, so you aren’t fitting a significantly larger tire in there.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ErnestoB said:


> I have seen mention of this before, but somehow I was under the impression that either the stanchions and/or the "crown steerer assembly (CSA) (we used to call it the "fork") were different in order to accommodate bigger tires (hence the EXT designation). So are these forks identical except in the order they're assembled? (except for the 150 of course). I see from the parts list that, indeed, they are.
> 
> So I'm starting to get it, I think. You can change spacers to either raise or lower the fork "ride height" to STD or EXT and/or you can change the shock travel distance using a different spacer arrangement. The difference between STD and EXT is simply a different number of "bottom out" spacers.
> 
> ...


Essentially yes. I believe the 150 EXT does use different legs, but every other Pro/EXT combination is possible, including Pro 150 if you started with an EXT. I bought a 100 or 120 EXT, don't even remember which now, converted it to 150 Pro. Just make sure your configuration comes with the spacers you need to make it happen. You can look at the parts manual diagram and travel change diagrams to figure it out. Like you said, the basic parts numbers are the same because they are the same.


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## Schmeg (Nov 2, 2021)

I’ve got a 4 month old Mastodon Comp EXT on,my Growler here in Maine and have just recently experienced this sag issue on a very cold day (-13F -23C) and it also popped back when attaching a fork pump. The bike has stayed in an unheated garage all winter. I am going to start keeping it inside to see if this makes a difference. Nothing appears to be leaking outside of the fork. I’ve been riding the bike daily all winter with no issues until,yesterday.


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

ErnestoB said:


> I have seen mention of this before, but somehow I was under the impression that either the stanchions and/or the "crown steerer assembly (CSA) (we used to call it the "fork") were different in order to accommodate bigger tires (hence the EXT designation). So are these forks identical except in the order they're assembled? (except for the 150 of course). I see from the parts list that, indeed, they are.
> 
> So I'm starting to get it, I think. You can change spacers to either raise or lower the fork "ride height" to STD or EXT and/or you can change the shock travel distance using a different spacer arrangement. The difference between STD and EXT is simply a different number of "bottom out" spacers.
> 
> ...


I have a mukluk and mastodon set at 120 and lowered from ext to std. I also used a 9point8 angled headset -1.7 degrees .


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## ErnestoB (12 mo ago)

bikedrd said:


> I have a mukluk and mastodon set at 120 and lowered from ext to std. I also used a 9point8 angled headset -1.7 degrees .


Do you use the angled headset to correct the geometry change due to the fork? Or were you looking for a change? And, if so, do you like it?


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## bikedrd (Jul 8, 2004)

ErnestoB said:


> Do you use the angled headset to correct the geometry change due to the fork? Or were you looking for a change? And, if so, do you like it?


I want it 66 degrees, after trying a range of angles.


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

pwd666 said:


> That's what it seems like. I had the bike out for a ride again last night in -20C and the fork started sagging again and not returning to normal travel. I contacted the shop where I purchased it from and they are going to send it for a rebuild. They said "it might be a bypass in the system"; not sure exactly what they mean but fingers crossed.


I just received my fork back from the warranty work. The note from the service shops says
"Replaced oring on shaft"
"make sure to not overtight the air cap because it can cause the same issue you had"

I haven't had it out for a ride yet but not exactly sure what they mean by don't overtighten the air cap....

will be testing soon


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## Jon A (Jan 4, 2021)

Interesting comment by them. That seems to imply it's possible to overtighten the air cap such that it pushes in the pin enough you'd be equalizing the negative and positive chambers (the same as connecting a pump) which we know can set the fork to a lower ride height. Something to keep in mind I guess.


----------



## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

I went for a ride last night (although it wasn't as cold as before) in -15C to -13C and the fork seemed to work well. Anxious to see how it does around -20C or colder.

Ah, that makes sense Jon A! I wouldn't have thought overtightening the air cap would have any affect.


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

Jon A said:


> Interesting comment by them. That seems to imply it's possible to overtighten the air cap such that it pushes in the pin enough you'd be equalizing the negative and positive chambers (the same as connecting a pump) which we know can set the fork to a lower ride height. Something to keep in mind I guess.


Could it be that simple? I'm planning on a ride tonight... I'll re-equalize and re-pump before the ride, and very lightly thread on the air cap... Oh man if that's it that's so hilarious. It's just warmed up here (-10C tonight when I'll be riding) so I'll not be able to tell if it's a cold-weather thing or an air-cap thing... but good to know!


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

I went for a ride last night in -7C with the air cap only threaded on loosely... Fork was still at full extension after 2.5 hours. Hard to say if the air cap or the temperature increase was the reason for the better performance.

I do remember reading somewhere that the extension of the poppet is something that can be adjusted... maybe I have a fork where the valve extends too far and is depressed by the air cap?


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

I just went for a ride in -19C and the fork has sagged again. It's sagged down about half way. Whatever they did at the service shop didn't fix it neither did making sure the air cap was barely on. Getting a bit frustrated now.... going to contact the suspension shop and see if they have any other suggestions.

Thanks for your input kbeefy. There must be others riding the Mastodon Comp in colder temperatures?


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## skeered1 (Jul 30, 2007)

deleted post


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

pwd666 said:


> I just went for a ride in -19C and the fork has sagged again. It's sagged down about half way. Whatever they did at the service shop didn't fix it neither did making sure the air cap was barely on. Getting a bit frustrated now.... going to contact the suspension shop and see if they have any other suggestions.
> 
> Thanks for your input kbeefy. There must be others riding the Mastodon Comp in colder temperatures?


The fork is tested to -15C. Sounds like you went above and beyond!

The problem is rubber seals shrink in the cold faster than the aluminium pistons and tubes. So get cold enough and your seal isn't fat enough (and/or flexible enough) to seal between the piston and stanchion. You can spec a seal to work at -20C, but it'll be pretty grabby at warmer temps as the seal then gets too big for it's space.

Hooking on a pump will rebalance the chambers and you'll be working fine at normal temps again.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> The fork is tested to -15C. Sounds like you went above and beyond!


Well it IS supposed to be fat-bike fork...right?

Hopefully they realize fat-bikes are mostly (not all, but mostly) used in cold environments.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Well it IS supposed to be fat-bike fork...right?
> 
> Hopefully they realize fat-bikes are mostly (not all, but mostly) used in cold environments.


-15C isn't exactly room temp. Remember it's a fat-bike, not just a snow/ice/blizzard bike. Most of them get ridden in much much warmer temps.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dougal said:


> -15C isn't exactly room temp. Remember it's a fat-bike, not just a snow/ice/blizzard bike. Most of them get ridden in much much warmer temps.


It's mostly a snow/ice/blizzard bike. -15C isn't enough of a buffer for winter conditions encountered in places like Canada and mountainous areas. Air springs in general are kinda dumb for this kind of riding. We have a lot of mastodons up here getting ridden in these temps and colder. I don't know what % are failing, but you have to admit that riding on the snow in winter is a *primary *intended use for fat-bikes.


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## Dougal (Jan 23, 2004)

Jayem said:


> It's mostly a snow/ice/blizzard bike. -15C isn't enough of a buffer for winter conditions encountered in places like Canada and mountainous areas. Air springs in general are kinda dumb for this kind of riding. We have a lot of mastodons up here getting ridden in these temps and colder. I don't know what % are failing, but you have to admit that riding on the snow in winter is a *primary *intended use for fat-bikes.


You seem to be missing the point. To design something that works in the super cold means it won't work very well at normal temperatures.

If you want to ride at -20C you need to cold prep everything. It's not that big a deal to take apart a fork and oversize the air seals.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Jayem said:


> It's mostly a snow/ice/blizzard bike. -15C isn't enough of a buffer for winter conditions encountered in places like Canada and mountainous areas. Air springs in general are kinda dumb for this kind of riding. We have a lot of mastodons up here getting ridden in these temps and colder. I don't know what % are failing, but you have to admit that riding on the snow in winter is a *primary *intended use for fat-bikes.


Let's see someone's coil-converted Mastodon. I love coil but a Coiled Mastodon would really be a boat anchor


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

I contacted the service shop that originally had a look at my fork sag issue. I told them it was still sagging all the way in the cold (-18C and colder) and they basically said: Yep; that's normal.


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

Saturday ride: -25C : fork sagged.
Sunday ride: -15C : fork sagged
Tuesday ride: -5C : fork finished ride at full height.

The weird thing is though: I'm riding with a couple of other people who are also riding Mastodons, and their forks are fine on the same rides. It's definitely affected by temperature, but I ordered a full rebuild kit anyways to see if changing the seals will help. 

I get that Manitou specs it down to only -15C, and I get the reasons why. It's awkward for me though that the temperature for me is often below that in Jan/Feb. March should be warmer, but I may have to look at a rigid fork to put on when the temps drop, and that's frustrating. If they came out with a "low temp seal kit" or something that would still seal at low temps with the tradeoff that performance would be less good when it's warm, I would totally swap that in for the colder months.


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## ErnestoB (12 mo ago)

Aresab said:


> If the model you bought is a newer version, 2019 or later all of the Mastodon Pros use the same length stanchons; EXT vs STD should be a spacer configuration. See the travel change guide here:
> 
> 
> https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036017874-Mastodon
> ...


So here's the update on the Matodon Pro EXT on a 2018 Mukluk carbon: Fork fits fine with standard width crown race contrary to what Salsa tells me. The EXT version is not necessary for Dillinger 5 studded tires contrary to Manitou--tons of room. I haven't dialed in the settings yet, but I've ridden the bike on snow and am totally jazzed with the quality of the fork. Plush, if I might use an overused term. The bike does sit quite a bit higher which changes the handling, maybe in not such a good way, but too soon to tell. The front end comes up easier which is nice. I think once I swap the spacers to put it back to the STD configuration things will be good. I didn't think the suspension was really all that important in snow, but it seems to really help with maintaining traction on the front making turns more certain. 120 travel is probably more than I need, but it's there, so why not?

Thanks again for the help here.


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## pwd666 (Nov 9, 2021)

kbeefy said:


> Saturday ride: -25C : fork sagged.
> Sunday ride: -15C : fork sagged
> Tuesday ride: -5C : fork finished ride at full height.
> 
> ...


How old/what year is your sagging Mastodon out of curiosity? What about the others who aren't experiencing sag issues around -17C or so? Same year etc...?


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Essentially yes. I believe the 150 EXT does use different legs, but every other Pro/EXT combination is possible, including Pro 150 if you started with an EXT. I bought a 100 or 120 EXT, don't even remember which now, converted it to 150 Pro. Just make sure your configuration comes with the spacers you need to make it happen. You can look at the parts manual diagram and travel change diagrams to figure it out. Like you said, the basic parts numbers are the same because they are the same.


I have a pro extended that is allready extended to 140mm.Are you saying that if I take out a spacer i will get 150mm of travel? i believe my Fork is Probably a 2018 model though,so erhaps not doable? cheers


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## olejpres (Dec 20, 2021)

Staktup said:


> Let's see someone's coil-converted Mastodon. I love coil but a Coiled Mastodon would really be a boat anchor


I have coil converted the Mastodon. It is by no means any anchor and it is 10 times better behaving as a fork. I will say it is not working like it should with air compared with coil.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Please share pics and details olejpres! Did you use a PUSH, Vorsprung, Marzocchi, MRP, or other conversion kit? 

Curious about the weight gain since my 2016 cf Bucksaw sz Med already weighs 38 freakin lbs (with carbon rims, bars, CC DBIL air shock, Hustle Remtech pedals, pack, pump, spare tube, water bottle and studded Dillinger 4s). In warmer months I'll use OneUp composite pedals and a Van Helga up front and Jumbo Jim out back which drops some weight but I use alloy rims to take a beating.


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## olejpres (Dec 20, 2021)

Staktup said:


> Please share pics and details olejpres! Did you use a PUSH, Vorsprung, Marzocchi, MRP, or other conversion kit?
> 
> Curious about the weight gain since my 2016 cf Bucksaw sz Med already weighs 38 freakin lbs (with carbon rims, bars, CC DBIL air shock, Hustle Remtech pedals, pack, pump, spare tube, water bottle and studded Dillinger 4s). In warmer months I'll use OneUp composite pedals and a Van Helga up front and Jumbo Jim out back which drops some weight but I use alloy rims to take a beating.


You just buy a coil spring for your weight, from example mrp, push, cane creek or similiar. Take out the air spring assembly. Take off air piston and cut and grind down the piston so you have a smaller diameter. Trace down a top out spring from a Boxxer coil assembly or similiar, and put under the piston, screw back the piston and screw it back and assemble the fork to check the travel. If travel is to long, just take one of the top out tokens and use as many as you wish, one is 10 mm, to get the desired travel. Even if you wish, cut one token down to half. The travel spacers should obviously sit underneeth the piston. The inner diameter of the stanchion is so small that you need to cut off the shrink plastic that follows the coil springs. Grease it well with some grease that sticks well and does not get affected buy cold. I am using Fluid film lanolin grease that is not affected by cold temperatures. You also need to unscrew the adjustable top cap assembly, and take off all spacers and just keep the aluminum stanchion. Drop desired coil rate into your stanchion and screw on the top cap, check if preload is satisfiying. You can use whatever to preload the spring if desired, I just use plastic tokens and cut them down to 2 mm spacers. I am using 65lb coil spring for my 112 kg rider weight.


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## olejpres (Dec 20, 2021)

Staktup said:


> Please share pics and details olejpres! Did you use a PUSH, Vorsprung, Marzocchi, MRP, or other conversion kit?
> 
> Curious about the weight gain since my 2016 cf Bucksaw sz Med already weighs 38 freakin lbs (with carbon rims, bars, CC DBIL air shock, Hustle Remtech pedals, pack, pump, spare tube, water bottle and studded Dillinger 4s). In warmer months I'll use OneUp composite pedals and a Van Helga up front and Jumbo Jim out back which drops some weight but I use alloy rims to take a beating.


Really curious about why you even care about weight, when riding a fat bike with tyres at 1300grams  The weight of the spring is maybe 300 grams, but it will transform the performance of the fork. It will have unbetable grip, very plush feel, and if you care to use fast enough rebound you will avvoid bottoming out easy. Another thing to remember with the damper is that if you use to much compression you choke the fork, and you probably will slow it down to much. Use as little as possible of the compression and be more carefully with rebound adjustment.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Hmm, very intriguing. Thanks for sharing your process. I'm new to Manitou suspension so it's more mysterious to me. Now the ground down piston- it doesn't have to be uniform in circumference or diameter since the air spring assembly will be discarded and won't be leaned on for a tight seal,? Also, will the rod connected to the piston slip inside the coil or be discarded too?

I think I have to see an image or two if you ever decide to post some. 

Weight matters only bc there are time when I hit a patch of deep snow or slush where I have to ride or push the bike uphill and I'm on the verge of having a STEMI, LOL.


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## olejpres (Dec 20, 2021)

Staktup said:


> Hmm, very intriguing. Thanks for sharing your process. I'm new to Manitou suspension so it's more mysterious to me. Now the ground down piston- it doesn't have to be uniform in circumference or diameter since the air spring assembly will be discarded and won't be leaned on for a tight seal,? Also, will the rod connected to the piston slip inside the coil or be discarded too?
> 
> I think I have to see an image or two if you ever decide to post some.
> 
> Weight matters only bc there are time when I hit a patch of deep snow or slush where I have to ride or push the bike uphill and I'm on the verge of having a STEMI, LOL.


just grind down so diameter is smaller by 2mm. make a cone shape on top of piston to fit inside the coil spring.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

olejpres said:


> just grind down so diameter is smaller by 2mm. make a cone shape on top of piston to fit inside the coil spring.


So basically your just Mcgyver,yes?


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## adamjt (Mar 27, 2009)

Dougal said:


> Yes. Comp forks have ABS+ dampers which fits the MILO ABS+ lockout (picture in link): https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/milo-remote-lockout-kit-manitou.html
> 
> There is another MILO kit for the Kwik Toggle damper, you don't want that one as it doesn't have the cable spool and cable stop for the ABS+.


Is the Manitou 141-26896 still the right lockout kit for the 2019+ Mastodon Comp EXT? Or did they change the dampers so I need a different kit.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Jayem said:


> 26 Dillinger 5 fits fine in normal non-ext version, but only about .3” of vertical clearance, so you aren’t fitting a significantly larger tire in there.


My 4.8 fits fine on 100mm rims on both the Bluto had before and RST renegade I have on my other fatty.Im assuming it will fit fine on a standard pro as well.Thats as big as I need to go here in Australia.Im planning on having it extended to 150mm though to match the 130mm rear


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## PolarMonkey (Dec 10, 2015)

Can the 2019+ Pro forks be converted from EXT to STD configuration and back by rearranging the internal spacers? It would appear that this is possible due to the identical part numbers for the internals of both the EXT and STD forks, I searched this thread but couldn't find a definitive answer.


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## ahti (May 4, 2021)

PolarMonkey said:


> Can the 2019+ Pro forks be converted from EXT to STD configuration and back by rearranging the internal spacers? It would appear that this is possible due to the identical part numbers for the internals of both the EXT and STD forks, I searched this thread but couldn't find a definitive answer.


EXT and be converted to STD just by removing two bottom-out spacers from each leg. I found this document helpful for left leg:

https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc..._Comp_Travel_Change_Guide_2019_To_Present.pdf

You need to remove an equal amount of bottom out spacers from each side.

The hardest part about all that is that the fork needs to be taken apart to access the spacers and put back together afterwards.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

And you gotta watch your tire size, I have around 1/3” clearance at 150mm with a standard pro converted from an EXT. Tire 26” D5. The 150 EXT has the different parts that can accommodate bigger tires.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

PolarMonkey said:


> Can the 2019+ Pro forks be converted from EXT to STD configuration and back by rearranging the internal spacers? It would appear that this is possible due to the identical part numbers for the internals of both the EXT and STD forks, I searched this thread but couldn't find a definitive answer.


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## roja_dude (Jul 19, 2006)

Hi all/ I have the stock 100 Mastodon Comp on my Canyon Dude. I have never checked the air pressure and would like to give it a try. But I’m worried about damaging the fork or doing something wrong. Are there instructions or video you recommend that would show me how to do this? And is there a chart for recommended air pressure? I’m around 150 lbs. Thanks!


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## pelts79 (Feb 29, 2008)

roja_dude said:


> Hi all/ I have the stock 100 Mastodon Comp on my Canyon Dude. I have never checked the air pressure and would like to give it a try. But I’m worried about damaging the fork or doing something wrong. Are there instructions or video you recommend that would show me how to do this? And is there a chart for recommended air pressure? I’m around 150 lbs. Thanks!





https://portal.pivotcycles.com/portalimages/techspec/45-35283-Mastodon-Setup-Guide.pdf


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

I have an older Mastodon standard comp 120 and it fits my 27.5 with an 80 mm rim just fine. I need another one but with 140 travel. I noticed they may have changed a bit or at least new stickers make them look SO MUCH FASTER . Can someone please verify the fork hasn't changed but just the stickers and it will still fit without going to the EXT version? Appreciate the info!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well that’ll be impressive because my 150 pro only fits a 26” Dillinger 5 barely, as in about 1/3rd” clearance between the tire and crown at bottom out.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Well that’ll be impressive because my 150 pro only fits a 26” Dillinger 5 barely, as in about 1/3rd” clearance between the tire and crown at bottom out.


Appreciate the feedback!
Leaving me to wonder which Mastodon you have. Older or newer version?
As far as the older version, it isn't that impressive because it does work and I've been riding it just fine without issue for years. Maybe the Gnars and Barbs are smaller than the Dillinger 5, idk.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Bikemusher said:


> Appreciate the feedback!
> Leaving me to wonder which Mastodon you have. Older or newer version?
> As far as the older version, it isn't that impressive because it does work and I've been riding it just fine without issue for years. Maybe the Gnars and Barbs are smaller than the Dillinger 5, idk.


A gnarwhal 3.8 is a really small tire relatively, so maybe that’s it. Mine is a newer one.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Jayem said:


> A gnarwhal 3.8 is a really small tire relatively, so maybe that’s it. Mine is a newer one.


I'm running the 4.5 version of the Gnarwhal.
Thanks for the follow-up.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Just for clarification, I’m measuring the travel from the top of the tire to the crown.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Just for clarification, I’m measuring the travel from the top of the tire to the crown.


Using that measurement, I have 1.5 cm clearance on my Barbegazi to the bottom of the crown on my current standard comp 120 Mastodon.
I think I'll pull the trigger on the 140 standard pro and check it out. Seems worth trying.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Bikemusher said:


> I have an older Mastodon standard comp 120 and it fits my 27.5 with an 80 mm rim just fine. I need another one but with 140 travel. I noticed they may have changed a bit or at least new stickers make them look SO MUCH FASTER . Can someone please verify the fork hasn't changed but just the stickers and it will still fit without going to the EXT version? Appreciate the info!



I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a new Standard Pro 140 Mastodon. Installed my 80mm rim with a 4.5" Barbegazi and I have as much room as my older Standard Comp 120 Mastodon. Good to go!


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Bikemusher said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a new Standard Pro 140 Mastodon. Installed my 80mm rim with a 4.5" Barbegazi and I have as much room as my older Standard Comp 120 Mastodon. Good to go!


Good to hear buddy.Ive just bought a 120mm


Bikemusher said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a new Standard Pro 140 Mastodon. Installed my 80mm rim with a 4.5" Barbegazi and I have as much room as my older Standard Comp 120 Mastodon. Good to go!


good to know.Im planning on getting my brand new 120 ext converted to 150mm( So making it a standard) but im running only a 4.4 tyre on 55mm rims so im sure wont be an issue.I imagine all the mastodon configurations are still bigger than either a Bluto or RST renegade which i have had both and comfortably fit a 4.8 JJ on a 100mm rim


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

Bikemusher said:


> I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a new Standard Pro 140 Mastodon. Installed my 80mm rim with a 4.5" Barbegazi and I have as much room as my older Standard Comp 120 Mastodon. Good to go!


hey buddy could you please post a pic of your setup with 80mm wheels and the 4.5 tire on your mastodon? Ive just got the 120mm extended and was planning on getting it modded to 150mm standard but have ordered a 27.5 mulefut and a 4,5 cake eater and want to be sure it will fit.Cheers


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## Dawgprimo (Mar 7, 2004)

Luv it!!!


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## Brenden (Feb 22, 2021)

I ordered a 100 ext mastodon comp. I need to make it a 100 STD or 80 ext. I know I can do the pump trick, but I'd like something more permanent eventually, especially if I'm going to take it apart to remove bottoming spacers. 
Anyway, I've been looking for travel spacers. Are the Mezzer ones the same? They seem to be the only ones I can find, aside from the place in New Zealand.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

bikemad1 said:


> hey buddy could you please post a pic of your setup with 80mm wheels and the 4.5 tire on your mastodon? Ive just got the 120mm extended and was planning on getting it modded to 150mm standard but have ordered a 27.5 mulefut and a 4,5 cake eater and want to be sure it will fit.Cheers


My apologies.... I forgot about this request. I will be putting the new 140 on my bike this weekend. After the install, I'll post some pictures of both forks, 120 and 140 standards, with the 4.5" Barbegazzis.


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## Brenden (Feb 22, 2021)

My new fork came with these. Are these the travel spacers that adjust the top out?


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## Brenden (Feb 22, 2021)

Why, yes they are!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Well that’ll be impressive because my 150 pro only fits a 26” Dillinger 5 barely, as in about 1/3rd” clearance between the tire and crown at bottom out.



Standard or EXT?

I've easily fit a Vee 2XL in the EXT, with plenty of clearance at full bottom.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

mikesee said:


> Standard or EXT?
> 
> I've easily fit a Vee 2XL in the EXT, with plenty of clearance at full bottom.


I bit the bullet and got a new mastodon pro ext120mm.Got it converted to 150mm so now is STD.running a 80mm mulefut with 4.5 gnarwahl up front.Took all the air out and neither the crown or arch touched the tire.Rose some suitable rough sandstone chunk yesterday and no dramas at all,just lots of plush!!


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## rcracer2 (Nov 12, 2014)

You have to consider the bump stop is not compressed much with how you are doing that clearance check. The internal rubber bump stop is about 10mm tall and will compress to about 3-5 tall under full bump. How much tire clearance to the crown then? You need a good 5mm clearance with the bump stop fully compressed so figure 7mm+5mm =12mm when using this method. This is for your safety on a really big hit.


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## 300hp (Apr 23, 2008)

Hey folks, I switched wheel size and frames, so I need to reset my mastodon pro ext. I've done the travel adjust before while set to ext, but never converted from ext to std, which I need to do to maintain geometry. 

I know I also have to flip some spacers on the damper side when going from ext to std. 

My silly question (since the fork is still together and on my bike right now) do I have to pull the damper shaft and drain the damper fluid to get to the damper side spacers? Or are they external on the shaft and I'll see them right when I drop the lowers.

Thanks!!
H.


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## williamson.james (Apr 27, 2016)

Anyone running 27.5 Vangelgas on a STD? Trying determine if I should buy STD or EXT. I do recognize that I can change this later if needed, but it would be best if I can buy the right size without having to change spacers.

Thanks in advance!


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## Brenden (Feb 22, 2021)

300hp said:


> Hey folks, I switched wheel size and frames, so I need to reset my mastodon pro ext. I've done the travel adjust before while set to ext, but never converted from ext to std, which I need to do to maintain geometry.
> 
> I know I also have to flip some spacers on the damper side when going from ext to std.
> 
> ...


Draining the damper is not required.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

kbeefy said:


> Saturday ride: -25C : fork sagged.
> Sunday ride: -15C : fork sagged
> Tuesday ride: -5C : fork finished ride at...


My buddy and I have experienced this as well, and I have had positive results by attaching the shock pump at riding temp with the fork at riding temp. I've only tried it a few times, but no sagging.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mountainbiker24 said:


> My buddy and I have experienced this as well, and I have had positive results by attaching the shock pump at riding temp with the fork at riding temp. I've only tried it a few times, but no sagging.


Yeah, due to our significantly cooler temps this morning, I hooked up a shock pump before starting my climb. My "normal" pressure for 20-30F was causing way way too much sag at the 0F temps this morning, so I needed about 15 pumps with the shock pump hooked up, pulling the fork all the way out with the bike upside down to ensure the negative spring equalized and set correctly to avoid the sag-down.

Infuriating that they don't just make a coil kit for this.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

williamson.james said:


> Anyone running 27.5 Vangelgas on a STD? Trying determine if I should buy STD or EXT. I do recognize that I can change this later if needed, but it would be best if I can buy the right size without having to change spacers.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Yep.I have my mastodon pro set at 150mm travel so it was coverted back to STD from EXT for the extra travel.I have a 4.5 Gnarwahl on an 80mm sunringle rim and ive used full travel and not had it hit the crown or arch as quite a few people warned me it would


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## williamson.james (Apr 27, 2016)

bikemad1 said:


> Yep.I have my mastodon pro set at 150mm travel so it was coverted back to STD from EXT for the extra travel.I have a 4.5 Gnarwahl on an 80mm sunringle rim and ive used full travel and not had it hit the crown or arch as quite a few people warned me it would


Wow! Thanks, the 27.5x4.0 Vanhelgas should be no problem then!


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

My wife and I each upgraded our Farley 9.6’s, replacing the stock Haru carbon forks with Mastadon Pro Ext 100 mm forks. The forks shipped with low profile damper knobs btw, so we have no downtube interference. Otherwise we would have installed the rubber bumpers Trek uses on the Farley 7 and other bikes.

Tires are 27.5 x 4.5” Barbegazi’s mounted on HED carbon wheels. We previously upgraded bars to carbon to dampen vibrations. Bike weights are now just under 30 lb. Rider weights with gear are 155 and 185 lb. We ride fairly flowy blue trails with some rooty and rocky sections, but largely dirt, at speeds averaging 8-10 mph. Could any of you suggest starting settings for rebound damping, high speed compression, and low speed compression? We’d appreciate a head start on setup.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well, I find the compression damping settings to be utterly useless. Even "1" on the LSC makes it overly harsh. Same with the HSC. I'm 165-170lbs. You can use the LSC like a lockout, which I assume is why there's the big tab/hook on the lever, but it just lets you go between the more open setting and what some may call "climb". I got a high flow piston from Dougal (Serious Bicycle Suspension | Shockcraft) that helps. The fork is "ok" right now, but it was definitely way too harsh before the upgraded piston. My hypothesis is that tuning the large unsprung weight of fat-tires vs the relatively (but not always) soft impacts of snow riding is a bit tricky. A significant amount of compression and rebound damping (not to be confused with damping adjuster settings) appears to be needed, softer on the compression side for sure.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Jayem said:


> Well, I find the compression damping settings to be utterly useless. Even "1" on the LSC makes it overly harsh. Same with the HSC. I'm 165-170lbs. You can use the LSC like a lockout, which I assume is why there's the big tab/hook on the lever, but it just lets you go between the more open setting and what some may call "climb".


Interesting. We’ll be sure to experiment with zero compression. Anyone else have @Jayem ’s experience? 

Also, any advice on tire pressures? We’ve zero’d in on ideal fully rigid pressures for dirt riding and of course much lower for snow. Should we increase our rigid dirt pressures from 8-9 psi to something a bit higher in front? Our rigid pressures balanced grip and bounce. Maybe we don’t need to worry about bounce in front now, but of course grip still matters.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Tire pressures are always dictated by the terrain, as in the snow consistency, depth, how packed, etc. It's a floating number. If you go low, then the fork won't activate as easily, but it's more important for the tires to work properly in the snow for traction, so you might need less pressure in the fork. My pumps are all showing different numbers, so I'm not sure if they'd be helpful. I know at one time my summer number was 70, but when I take it outside I often have to adjust the pressure in the winter for different temps. Weekend before last, it was 0°F. This weekend it was 25°.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

Dkayak said:


> Interesting. We’ll be sure to experiment with zero compression. Anyone else have @Jayem ’s experience?


I have a 2019? Mastodon pro and the LSC on mine I hardly notice any difference on the first few clicks. Second to last click and I can feel it and the last click makes a noticeable difference with the fork riding much higher and feeling more stiff with less small bump compliance at slower speeds.
For the HSC, I am pretty sure that only works when the LSC is maxed out. I only notice it working then and can tell it helps firm up the mid stroke well at higher speeds. I don’t notice the HSC at all no matter how many clicks when the LSC is not maxed out.

I generally ride either with the LSC at zero clicks for low speed trail riding and tech climbing or maxed out with the HSC maxed for riding at speed or fire road climbs. I am pretty big at 6’4, 220lbs so the LSC and HSC maxed doesn’t feel like it’s locked to me, just feels like a firm fork with good mid stoke support.


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

I have not had any of the sagging issues reported on my circa 2018 100mm Pro Standard. I can say I have had similar experiences with the LSC/HSC, in that LSC is kind of useless until you get close to maxed. I run one or two clicks offf maxed. For reference, 5'10", 230 loaded up. It is not horrible, but leaves much to be desired. I still feel like it is the best fat option save for the Fox unicorn.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I like my Mastodon but boy am I tired of whacking my knee on the crown! Surely I'm not the only one this happens to? I'd like to pad it somehow, maybe a folded up piece of an old innertube and a couple of zip ties. Anyone come up with anything better? I'm hoping to not have to invest in knee pads.


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## wrightcs77 (Oct 6, 2008)

SteveF said:


> I like my Mastodon but boy am I tired of whacking my knee on the crown! Surely I'm not the only one this happens to? I'd like to pad it somehow, maybe a folded up piece of an old innertube and a couple of zip ties. Anyone come up with anything better? I'm hoping to not have to invest in knee pads.


Only had my Mastadon since March, but have never hit my knee on it.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

wrightcs77 said:


> Only had my Mastadon since March, but have never hit my knee on it.


Only three rides for my wife and me, but no contact with the forks. I suspect it depends on bike sizing and geometry, i.e. reach (compared to your body dimensions) and maybe also head tube angle. A snug cockpit and steep head tube might do it?


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

5 years on my Wednesday, only time my knee hits it is when I end up in a bike-me pile on the ground. It is wide though, and borderline comical with skinny rims.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

It's a size small bike so, yeah - short cockpit. I most often hit it when I lose momentum or traction on a climb and come forward off the saddle to get my feet down as the bike slips backwards down the slope. It happens a time or three pretty much every season and boy does it smart!


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I had read this entire thread a while back while planning to get one and then didn't. Now I'm back on the fence to purchase. I skimmed again. I see that a 120 std can be made a 100mm EXT? Would a 100mm comp be able to be made EXT? I want to be able to run Bud/Lou or maybe even larger tires in the future. Will a 100mm comp be able to do this?


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## Brenden (Feb 22, 2021)

As I understand it,. As of the 2019 model, any fork can be converted into any configuration. 140 ext or something is the only exception.

I bought a 100ext and converted in into a 100std. All the needed spacers were included. Just need a cassette tool and a modified 8 socket to disassemble.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Brenden said:


> As I understand it,. As of the 2019 model, any fork can be converted into any configuration. 140 ext or something is the only exception.
> 
> I bought a 100ext and converted in into a 100std. All the needed spacers were included. Just need a cassette tool and a modified 8 socket to disassemble.


Any idea if I can adjust said 100mm comp STD to 120mm comp EXT and be able to run a bud on an 80mm rim or eventually a vee 2xl on a 100mm?


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## Brenden (Feb 22, 2021)

Cerpss said:


> Any idea if I can adjust said 100mm comp STD to 120mm comp EXT and be able to run a bud on an 80mm rim or eventually a vee 2xl on a 100mm?


I think so, but that is on the farther end of the adjustment.


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## singletrackmack (Oct 18, 2012)

.


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Ok guys, been reading this thread as much as i can. I just recently purchased a Pro 100mm EXT for my Farley 9.6. I am just curious what is needed to purchase to change this to a 120mm EXT? I am running 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarlwals, so i think the EXT is needed. I went with the 100mm EXT because i didn;t want to mess with the bikes geo that much, but we are having a crappy winter, no snow on the ground in New England, and am wishing for a bit more travel. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Sorry. I was supposed to post this photo a while back....

Currently running Gnarwhals on 80 mm rims with a 120 Mastodon STD.
Picture is a Barbegazis on 70 mm with 140 Mastodon STD.

Your needs may vary but this works great for me.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Bikemusher said:


> Sorry. I was supposed to post this photo a while back....
> 
> Currently running Gnarwhals on 80 mm rims with a 120 Mastodon STD.
> Picture is a Barbegazis on 70 mm with 140 Mastodon STD.
> ...


How much clearance to the crown, at least 126 mm at full extension?


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

jdaigneault said:


> Ok guys, been reading this thread as much as i can. I just recently purchased a Pro 100mm EXT for my Farley 9.6. I am just curious what is needed to purchase to change this to a 120mm EXT? I am running 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarlwals, so i think the EXT is needed. I went with the 100mm EXT because i didn;t want to mess with the bikes geo that much, but we are having a crappy winter, no snow on the ground in New England, and am wishing for a bit more travel. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


My situation exactly. I kept it at 100 mm, which still increases the AC by 20 mm (to Trek’s limit) and slackens the head tube by about 1 degree. I can sense the geometry shift and really like it.

My wife has the same setup. After two increasingly aggressive rides the o-rings say we’ve each used about 80 mm of travel. As folks recommended here, we have compression damping wide open. Overall we couldn’t be happier.

Clearance seems about right at 110-115 mm.


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## Bikemusher (Jan 26, 2018)

Dkayak said:


> How much clearance to the crown, at least 126 mm at full extension?


To the bottom of the crown.
Almost 4.5" on the 120
6" on the 140


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

jdaigneault said:


> Ok guys, been reading this thread as much as i can. I just recently purchased a Pro 100mm EXT for my Farley 9.6. I am just curious what is needed to purchase to change this to a 120mm EXT? I am running 27.5 x 4.5 Gnarlwals, so i think the EXT is needed. I went with the 100mm EXT because i didn;t want to mess with the bikes geo that much, but we are having a crappy winter, no snow on the ground in New England, and am wishing for a bit more travel. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


As long as it’s a newer model (2019 or later), it should just be removing spacers. 2019+ models all use the same stanchion length and then configurations are changed by spacers. I’d recommend the Manitou toolkit if you don’t have it, you’ll need it for regular maintenance. You should also grab some Buzzy’s Slick Honey and Manitou 5W40 Semi-bath oil. The link to the service guide is here:


https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360064809173/Mastodon_Pro_Comp_Travel_Change_Guide_2019_To_Present.pdf


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Aresab said:


> As long as it’s a newer model (2019 or later), it should just be removing spacers. 2019+ models all use the same stanchion length and then configurations are changed by spacers. I’d recommend the Manitou toolkit if you don’t have it, you’ll need it for regular maintenance. You should also grab some Buzzy’s Slick Honey and Manitou 5W40 Semi-bath oil. The link to the service guide is here:
> 
> 
> https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360064809173/Mastodon_Pro_Comp_Travel_Change_Guide_2019_To_Present.pdf


Any other source for the toolkit? It's not currently available thru Hayes.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jdaigneault said:


> Any other source for the toolkit? It's not currently available thru Hayes.


Supposedly Takeahike has it…. Manitou Fork Tools

I just ordered one as I found that my Dillinger 5 27.5 studded will rip up my crown when fully compressed. It had about 15mm clearance with the fork arch, but when I deflated it and compressed it would contact the crown.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Paochow said:


> Supposedly Takeahike has it…. Manitou Fork Tools
> 
> I just ordered one as I found that my Dillinger 5 27.5 studded will rip up my crown when fully compressed. It had about 15mm clearance with the fork arch, but when I deflated it and compressed it would contact the crown.


Yeah, a 26” D5/WC is about the max on a non-EXT


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Aresab said:


> As long as it’s a newer model (2019 or later), it should just be removing spacers. 2019+ models all use the same stanchion length and then configurations are changed by spacers. I’d recommend the Manitou toolkit if you don’t have it, you’ll need it for regular maintenance. You should also grab some Buzzy’s Slick Honey and Manitou 5W40 Semi-bath oil. The link to the service guide is here:
> 
> 
> https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/article_attachments/360064809173/Mastodon_Pro_Comp_Travel_Change_Guide_2019_To_Present.pdf


That's it? Just removal of some spacers? Really? That is exciting news. If i don't like the geo, then i can change it back to 100mm EXT. Great! I just ordered the tool kit. Thanks!


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

jdaigneault said:


> That's it? Just removal of some spacers? Really? That is exciting news. If i don't like the geo, then i can change it back to 100mm EXT. Great! I just ordered the tool kit. Thanks!


You can even leave the pump attached and lower the travel down to 100 once you're set to 120. Basically, pump on - compress to taste - remove pump. Experiment.


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## kbeefy (Jul 7, 2020)

Carl Mega said:


> You can even leave the pump attached and lower the travel down to 100 once you're set to 120. Basically, pump on - compress to taste - remove pump. Experiment.


Thats not permanent, right? Like you can't just choose your travel by compressing the fork to the desired travel and then removing the pump? I feel like that's just adding extra pressure to the negative chamber that would equalize as you ride. I could be wrong tho, maybe I'll try this while I wait for this Eastern rainstorm to stop...[/QUOTE]


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

It works. Maybe eventually some creep up. But I'm at 140 via spacers but typically run 130mm-ish. Been doing it for years. It is certainly an easy way to get a sense of your geo preference toggling between 100-110-120 or whatever.


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Carl Mega said:


> It works. Maybe eventually some creep up. But I'm at 140 via spacers but typically run 130mm-ish. Been doing it for years. It is certainly an easy way to get a sense of your geo preference toggling between 100-110-120 or whatever.


Carl,
I’m looking on Hayes website and can’t find instructions on removing the forks lowers with the threaded castings. Can you help me out?


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

jdaigneault said:


> Carl,
> I’m looking on Hayes website and can’t find instructions on removing the forks lowers with the threaded castings. Can you help me out?


Hmmm. So I'm going to level with you - my fork is from 2017 and I can't even remember particulars about servicing/travel change except I used the manitou toolkit with the thinwall socket and the cutout cassette tool. I'm not versed in the pre-post 2019 model changes.

I only passively follow this thread but doing a quick catch-up read-thru - this post has the travel adjust docs for the different model years: Manitou Mastodon?

When I looked at the model year docs, the damper/air assemblies looks roughly the same as far as disassembly - *both with needing that thinwall 8mm or what not to thread into castings/lowers* - that what you are stuck on? You need a socket thin enough to access thru the lowers into the assembly. https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc...s/360047974793/Mastodon_Pro_Service_Guide.pdf

^Page 7. Steps 2 & 4.



https://hayesbicycle.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036017874-Mastodon



Someone with a newer fork may better better versed. Here's another post with some links: Manitou Mastodon?


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## Aresab (Mar 27, 2007)

The newer ones are the same as the older (my 2017 120EXT has the longer stanchions as does my wife’s 2019 Comp), maybe some small damper tuning between years but the guide would be the same. There are some nuances between pro/comp. Remember to follow the guide exactly, the threads are reversed and being AL will break / strip easily. I believe I saw earlier you brought the Manitou toolkit; it’s really needed. 
If you run into trouble PM me and we’ll set up a time to talk. I’m in EDT (Virginia); just got back from travels for the holidays.


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Aresab said:


> The newer ones are the same as the older (my 2017 120EXT has the longer stanchions as does my wife’s 2019 Comp), maybe some small damper tuning between years but the guide would be the same. There are some nuances between pro/comp. Remember to follow the guide exactly, the threads are reversed and being AL will break / strip easily. I believe I saw earlier you brought the Manitou toolkit; it’s really needed.
> If you run into trouble PM me and we’ll set up a time to talk. I’m in EDT (Virginia); just got back from travels for the holidays.


Thank you sir! Yes, once the toolkit arrives I will dive in. Thank you!


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## fly4130 (Apr 3, 2009)

@jdaigneault where did you find the tool kit? I cant seem to find one in stock.


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

fly4130 said:


> @jdaigneault where did you find the tool kit? I cant seem to find one in stock.











Manitou Fork Tools


Tools for servicing Manitou suspension forks.




takeahikeshop.com


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Guys, tricky question. Fork is currently set up as a 100mm PRO EXT. Not sure I can convert to STD to clear my 27.5 X 4.5 Gnarlwall, but, can I just remove one bottom out spacer to reduce some unsprung axle to crown distance instead of the typical two to fully convert from EXT ?



https://www.mtbr.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.mtbr.com/attachments/mastodon2019travelchange-jpg.1950658/


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

jdaigneault said:


> Guys, tricky question. Fork is currently set up as a 100mm PRO EXT. Not sure I can convert to STD to clear my 27.5 X 4.5 Gnarlwall, but, can I just remove one bottom out spacer to reduce some unsprung axle to crown distance instead of the typical two to fully convert from EXT ?
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.mtbr.com/cdn-cgi/image/format=auto,onerror=redirect,width=1920,height=1920,fit=scale-down/https://www.mtbr.com/attachments/mastodon2019travelchange-jpg.1950658/


That’s what I was going to try with my STD when my tools show up- I was going to try 2 bottom and 5 top- doesn’t need much as the studs just barely make contact.


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## jdaigneault (Oct 18, 2013)

Paochow said:


> That’s what I was going to try with my STD when my tools show up- I was going to try 2 bottom and 5 top- doesn’t need much as the studs just barely make contact.


Let me know. I am set up with the 100mm EXT. thinking of loosing 1 bottom out spacer and removing 2 top out spacers.


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