# Best all around Mountain Bike for a beginer who doesn't want to keep buying



## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

Hey guys,

I want to avoid the endless upgrade cycle if possible. In the gun world for years you would have been told to just buy a S&W J frame 38. And now you will be told to just buy a Glock 19 (or would have until the Gen 4 debacle). In the sports car world someone would tell you to just buy a Miata or a Mustang 5.0. 

What I am looking for is the basic, damn good Mountain bike that is an all-around best buy.

The local shops sell Treks, Specialized and Canondale. I would be willing to order off the interenet.

I want something durable, that won't require endless tinkering.

Budget is anywhere from 1k-3k. I really, really don't want to spend 3k unless it is absolutely worth it.

I ride fairly tough trails, with lots of stumps, roots, sandy down hills with rocks, etc. No "mountains" per se but lots of fairly dangerous trails with trees and terrain that seems to be out to get you.

GHB


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## mainlane (Mar 28, 2007)

Buy as much as you can afford. It can cost up quite a bit per pound if you plan on buying upgrades later. 

Full suspension bikes can take more pounding on some components like rear wheels.

It sounds like your ride the same terrain as I do, Canadian praries, no real mountains but there are valleys and tight singletrack.

Theres a big push towards 29er bikes and my friend just got a giant xtc 29er 2 - hardtail, 100mm fox fork, 25 lbs overall weight, about $2k. He really likes it, I havent tried it for more than a few minutes. 

You prob dont need to go over 120mm of travel for a 26``bike. Trek Fuel, Giant Trance, Specialized stumpjumper. 

I personally have a 100mm giant anthem X, and love it.


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## ricky916 (Jun 7, 2011)

Get a badass hardtail for $1k~ and call it a day. no need for a fsp unless you absolutely need it, I ride rocky/bumpy and some tech. stuff all on a 8 year old heardtail frame and it's solid as hell and for the price you get good components on a higher end hardtail then a mid-end fsp (price wise).


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## Eric Z (Sep 28, 2008)

smart move to spend money up front if you have it. are you looking for a ht or fs? that will help a lot in your search if you decide on that first. if you don't know, then shop around and see what you like.

for a ht, around 1.5K is a excellent starting point. look at as many bikes as you can and give them a ride. you can get any components on any bike, but the frame is main part that determines the geometry and "feel" of the bike. 

enjoy the shopping experience!
ez


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

Specialized Stumpjumper FSR
Specialized Enduro
Cannondale Jekyll
Cannondale Claymore

Mind you these are geared for all around type riding, they weigh a little more than your average carbon hardtail, but the travel is forgiving when your coming down the mountain. After having a bike with these much travel and riding my buddies, 120mm rear travel is the minimum.

My buddy has the Stumpy FSR and it is one of the most kick ass bikes I have seen. Just all around killer. The Cdale Claymore looks freakin' sick though, but I don't know if you would want that much travel.


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## Heavy Fluid (Mar 31, 2011)

Patrick, you mean my Stumpjumper FSR? Thanks for the compliment. I really love the bike so far. I would buy another for sure. I would also consider the Santa Cruz Heckler. That would be my back up if a Stumpjumper were somehow not available anymore.


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## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

What do you guys think about the Yeti ARC? It seems to have a good reputation. I am also looking at the Stumpjumper SS 29. It seems like it might be pretty sturdy with very little to break (if harder to ride).

I am 5 foot 4/5. I am a little concerned that the Yeti Arc small frame may be too big. My old Trek was 16.5 and it was pretty close to the boys when I came off the seat.


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

Oh so you want one of those racer boy bikes huh? Lol jk. A hardtail between a budget of 1k-3k is opening a can of worms, really endless possibilities I'm not going to even bother.

Anyways, I doubt the small would be too large for you. Stand over has nothing to do with fit and is a pretty invalid measurement; you shouldn't worry about smashing your berries.


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## Gingerkid (Jun 7, 2011)

Greg Bell from south Georgia? Just curious since you mentioned firearms...

See if the local shop will let you test ride the full suspension Trek/Canon/Spec.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Can't give you specific of what is best, thats very personal preference, but can give what I like.....

Test ride as many bikes as you can, see which you like, SRAM or Shimano in terms of parts.
29ers can seriously help mitigate the need for an FS bike, depending on how rough your terrain is.
Fit is everything, if it doesn't fit you properly and you're not comfortable on it then no matter what it's not a deal _(unless you buy a complete bike to strip the parts for another frame)_
Again, test ride as many bikes as possible, that's the only way to tell what you like and sicne it's your first "real" bike I'd seriously consider supporting the local shop sincee you should be able to try it before you buy for size etc and you'll have after sales service.
 Make sure that whatever you buy the components on it are SLX/X7 or higher or you'll be looking to upgrade.

For under $3k you can get a Giant AnthemX 29er


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Felt Virtue Expert.


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## mung (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm getting back into it after a five year or so hiatus. I've been looking hard at bikesdirect bikes. Not sure if that's good or bad though


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## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

Gingerkid said:


> Greg Bell from south Georgia? Just curious since you mentioned firearms...
> 
> See if the local shop will let you test ride the full suspension Trek/Canon/Spec.


Sort of middle GA. I am probably the guy you are thinking of. I am a huge gun nut.

I think I may get the Yeti.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

"doesn't want to keep buying... doesn't require endless tinkering."

LOL. Famous last words. Buy a $500 bike, you'll want a $1k ride. Buy a $1k you'll lust after a $3,000 bike. Buy a $3k bike, you'll want.... a *different* $3k bike. 

I would make sure I have a 10-speed if I had a budget like that for a long-term ride. That's just me. Aside from that you're probably going to spend $2k+ (probably around $2,500) for a bike that makes few sacrifices... on paper at least. I wouldn't drop that much cash on an online bike, as someone will inevitably suggest. 

Spesh, Trek, and Giant are all safe choices. At $2,200 msrp I think the Trance X3 is one of the better values out there. Decent fork/shock, 10sp drivetrain. Upgrade the rear shifter and derailleur and you're in business. Some has to be a Giant seller near you, right? Trek Fuel EX8 is decent, as well. 

Only Stumpy FSR for less than $3k now is the Comp, but it's spec'd fairly well for the price IMO. Another idea might be to get the Camber Expert and upgrade the damper. It has a "Reba", but Spesh mangled it and put a solo-air spring and turnkey damper in it. You can get the dual-air spring and MoCo damper for about $175 online.... but not sure how much the dealer would charge to do that. But a *real* Reba, 10-spd drivetrain... maybe for around $2,600 would be a good deal. Plus, the Camber is the only one of the lot that has standard rear shock size... pretty ironic :shocked:. The others would limit/complicate your options of upgrading or replacing the shock in the future. 

Overall it's going to come down to what's available in your area, and fits you well. If you have a dealer order it for you, try to get him to agree to take it back if you don't like it. Tough sell, since in some places expensive bikes don't sell well. But if you agree to "trade up" to something more expensive, they might bite. 

Good luck!


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## Jnthomps08 (Mar 22, 2010)

I dont know how popular this opinion is, but I honestly think that in buying youre first bike, you have to take the hit- you wont be satisfied. But, thats a good thing! It will allow you to figure out what kind of riding you want to do. My first "real" bike was a GF Marlin (26er hardtail). I learned quick that I wanted to race and I wanted a 29er. Two bikes later, Im on a Niner EMD and I love it. 

I say buy a $1K and ride it for a few months.. then come back and think seriously about what you want out of a bike. I guess you could demo a whole mess of bikes and get the same effect. 

I will echo the sentiment that says spend youre money up front. It is whole lot cheaper. On the same note, though, a $1500 bike with a $500 set of handbuilt wheels is (IMO) better than a $2000 bike- all within reason, of course.

It is just a matter of figuring out what you want. Good luck!


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

A lot of good info here...

Spend as much as you can afford, you'll get a lot more bike for the $$. I have a 2007 GT iDrive 4. At 100mm full suspension, it's considered an XC bike. Even though I don't have an area with a lot of jumps or a bike that would require 5"-6" full suspension All-Mountain , I wish I would have bought one. The reason is, if I wanted to go somewhere that required a better bike, I'd have one. My 100mm FS is ideal for my area and my style of riding, but I still want more. All-mountain is more than just more travel on the suspension; things such as welded rims rather than pinned rims make a difference in strength.

Check out bikes like the Diamondback Sortie 3
http://brandscycle.com/product/diamondback-sortie-3-75077-1.htm

Diamondback Mission 2
http://brandscycle.com/product/diamondback-mission-2-75086-1.htm

GT Force 1.0
http://www.gtbicycles.com/bikes/mountain/all-mountain/2011-force-1-0-matte-black


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## allenfstar (Jul 7, 2011)

stump jumper comp/elite
camber comp-expert
all from specialized are great bikes that will take you through a lot of skill ranges, the stumpy comes pretty decked out right out of the box, id recommend go soft tail if u dont wanna buy another bike in the near future


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Demo some FS bikes.

I think hardtails have proven more tolerant to changing times and technologies. Anyone still riding their '01 FS? But I see the old Schwinn Homegrowns, old 6000s, old Rockhoppers and Stumpjumper HTs, etc., out on the trails from time to time.

The Yeti ARC would be a pretty great choice in a hardtail. Do you have a local dealer who can help you with sizing? It's difficult - it depends a lot on a person's individual proportions, and somewhat on their flexibility and power output. So ordering off the 'net is a little questionable for bikes above the "disposable" pricepoint, for a rider who can't size by comparison to a reference bike.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

=I agree with ricky - get the badass hardtail. I started on a hardtail.. upgraded to FS. FS is WAY overrrated. For all but the *most extreme *drops, you can do EVERYTHING on a hardtail.. it just requires more skill.

I would look at Jamis.. they are high end but give you big bang for the buck.

If I could buy my first bike again.. and when I buy my next bike, ....I will get a hard tail 29er with 100mm of travel. Hydraulic brakes are key.

Many say, and I agree, that's the perfect bike for going up and down. Get clipless pedals and fat tubeless tires and you'll have the ultimate machine.

If you don't want to keep buying bikes.. and you will be doing a lot of climbing, I would stay away from FS. Definitely hardtail.. and I strongly suggest 29er. The *paragon from Trek *or the *Exile 3* from Jamis are good choices. Trek also has a pretty exciting geometry.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Demo some FS bikes.
> 
> I think hardtails have proven more tolerant to changing times and technologies. Anyone still riding their '01 FS? But I see the old Schwinn Homegrowns, old 6000s, old Rockhoppers and Stumpjumper HTs, etc., out on the trails from time to time.
> 
> The Yeti ARC would be a pretty great choice in a hardtail. Do you have a local dealer who can help you with sizing? It's difficult - it depends a lot on a person's individual proportions, and somewhat on their flexibility and power output. So ordering off the 'net is a little questionable for bikes above the "disposable" pricepoint, for a rider who can't size by comparison to a reference bike.


I was riding my 00 SWorks FSR until recently. Honestly just wanted something new with a little more travel, otherwise I'd still be on it. Great bike, never let me down.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

I think that if you get a hardtail, you'll want a FS.
If you get a 100mm FS, you'll want a 140-160mm travel FS.

Anything beyond 160mm and it's a completely different type of bike. (Freeride/Downhill)

The All-Mountain can be used for XC, trail or all-mountain. Feeride and downhill aren't very fun to ride XC with. All mountain is a do-it-most setup.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

mung said:


> I'm getting back into it after a five year or so hiatus. I've been looking hard at bikesdirect bikes. Not sure if that's good or bad though


Bad unless you know exactly what you want. You need to know what size bike you ride and you need to undestand how to compare those geometry numbers online to a bike that actually fits you. You also need to understand that you get what you pay for, so just because they're claiming to sell a bike "worth $1,200 but your price is $400" well that's just marketing hype. It's a $400 bike, they saved the money somewhere (read: frame). BD is not completely useless but if you don't know exactly what you're shopping for then it is best to be avoided. Think of it like buying a used car online; if you don't know exactly what questions to ask you might get stuck with something you didn't expect and don't want.


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## michaelscott (May 23, 2011)

Jnthomps08 said:


> I say buy a $1K and ride it for a few months.. then come back and think seriously about what you want out of a bike. I guess you could demo a whole mess of bikes and get the same effect.





Stevuke said:


> =I agree with ricky - get the badass hardtail. I started on a hardtail.. upgraded to FS. FS is WAY overrrated. For all but the *most extreme *drops, you can do EVERYTHING on a hardtail.. it just requires more skill.
> 
> I would look at Jamis.. they are high end but give you big bang for the buck.
> 
> If I could buy my first bike again.. and when I buy my next bike, ....I will get a hard tail 29er with 100mm of travel. Hydraulic brakes are key.


I would agree with both of these. Chances are, even if you spend all your $3,000 you're probably not going to get the exact bike you want. You haven't hit enough trails, bailed enough, or really seen how interested you are going to be in the sport. You don't even know what you want!

*A bike is like a woman. You've gotta spend time with a few of them before you realize what you want/don't want/can't afford.*

IMO you should spend $1,000, buy a hard tail (29er or 26er- depending on your preference in the store), ride it for a year, and then make a more educated decision with your tastes in mind.


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## Jnthomps08 (Mar 22, 2010)

hardwarz said:


> I think that if you get a hardtail, you'll want a FS.
> If you get a 100mm FS, you'll want a 140-160mm travel FS.


I dont agree with this. Everyone talks about more travel like it is the key to world peace, but, like others have said, the XC HT has been around for years and it still gets the job done.

Furthermore, I am looking at a more aggressive (All Mtn) bike and I still find myself gravitating to slacker hardtails designed around 130mm of travel.

I will say that many things have made me a better mountain biker (clipless pedals, owning a road bike) but the times that i have spent in the saddle of a FS bike, I was underwhelmed and did not feel the need to have one for the riding/racing that I do.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

Jnthomps08 said:


> I dont agree with this. Everyone talks about more travel like it is the key to world peace, but, like others have said, the XC HT has been around for years and it still gets the job done.
> 
> Furthermore, I am looking at a more aggressive (All Mtn) bike and I still find myself gravitating to slacker hardtails designed around 130mm of travel.
> 
> I will say that many things have made me a better mountain biker (clipless pedals, owning a road bike) but the times that i have spent in the saddle of a FS bike, I was underwhelmed and did not feel the need to have one for the riding/racing that I do.


But, like you've said, you're looking at a more aggressive All Mountain bike, you've proved my point. All Mountains are built stronger than FS XC bikes. I agree with you, you don't NEED a AM, but not matter what, you find yourself gravitating towards one.

I have a 700C hybrid, a 100mm FS XC, a 29er hardtail and a 26 hardtail race. I still find myself looking at a 26 AM.


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## Jnthomps08 (Mar 22, 2010)

hardwarz said:


> But, like you've said, you're looking at a more aggressive All Mountain bike, you've proved my point. All Mountains are built stronger than FS XC bikes. I agree with you, you don't NEED a AM, but not matter what, you find yourself gravitating towards one.
> 
> I have a 700C hybrid, a 100mm FS XC, a 29er hardtail and a 26 hardtail race. I still find myself looking at a 26 AM.


Okay. I think we are misunderstanding each other. I wrote my reply because I thought you were implying FS was a necessity; I am an advocate that it isnt. Hence, in my looking at AM bikes, (a discipline that is certainly more populated by FS bikes) I was still looking at HTs.

I dont think everyone needs an aggressive bike. I wouldnt ride an AM bike anywhere that i havent taken my Niner. I live and ride in Pisgah, NC, by the way.

IMHO, the "best all around mountain bike for a beginner who doesnt want to keep buying" is a HT at the SLX/X7 level, with disc brakes, and a set of handbuilt wheels that were about $500.


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## hardwarz (Jun 12, 2009)

Jnthomps08 said:


> IMHO, the "best all around mountain bike for a beginner who doesnt want to keep buying" is a HT at the SLX/X7 level, with disc brakes, and a set of handbuilt wheels that were about $500.


Make you a bet component envy sets in and XT/X9 becomes the first upgrade. lol.


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## mung (Jul 8, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> Bad unless you know exactly what you want. You need to know what size bike you ride and you need to undestand how to compare those geometry numbers online to a bike that actually fits you. You also need to understand that you get what you pay for, so just because they're claiming to sell a bike "worth $1,200 but your price is $400" well that's just marketing hype. It's a $400 bike, they saved the money somewhere (read: frame). BD is not completely useless but if you don't know exactly what you're shopping for then it is best to be avoided. Think of it like buying a used car online; if you don't know exactly what questions to ask you might get stuck with something you didn't expect and don't want.


Thanks. This is the one I want. I do know I'd get the medium frame.

fantom_pro_ds_3x10

I'm considering that or the Specialized Camber. Specialized is more money with lesser components. Sorry to hijack thred, I'm a noob and can't post a new thread. Wow, I can't even post a link


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

mung said:


> Thanks. This is the one I want. I do know I'd get the medium frame.
> 
> fantom_pro_ds_3x10
> 
> I'm considering that or the Specialized Camber. Specialized is more money with lesser components. Sorry to hijack thred, I'm a noob and can't post a new thread. Wow, I can't even post a link


I don't have any experience on a Fantom DS so I can't remark on the way it rides. I would just caution to do a lot of homework on a bike you can't try riding before you buy. The Camber would be a good choice, the rear suspension linkage is more refined than the one the Moto appears to have but it's hard to judge things on appearance alone. The Camber has a more slack head angle which would make it less twitchy, the Fantom appears to have an old school more race oriented geometry. Again, it's hard to make comparisons based on numbers I far prefer making judgments on how things actually ride. Just remember, the Camber costs more with lower end parts; where do you think the savings come from in the Fantom? The suspension design and build quality is where Motobecane saves money; only you can decide if that's a tradeoff you can live with. Many people are on both sides of where to save money, I typically go with a better frame and upgrade parts when I break them.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

Jnthomps08 said:


> I dont agree with this. Everyone talks about more travel like it is the key to world peace, but, like others have said, the XC HT has been around for years and it still gets the job done.
> 
> Furthermore, I am looking at a more aggressive (All Mtn) bike and I still find myself gravitating to slacker hardtails designed around 130mm of travel.
> 
> I will say that many things have made me a better mountain biker (clipless pedals, owning a road bike) but the times that i have spent in the saddle of a FS bike, I was underwhelmed and did not feel the need to have one for the riding/racing that I do.


I can't agree more. This is crucial advice.

The whole FS excitement is more about "coolness" than anything else.

Unless you're a serious downhiller or freerider, you lose a lot on FS.. and what you gain, you can gain on a hardtail if you improve your riding skills.

It's not the full suspension...

It's the brakes, the wide fast rolling tires, the stiff wheel set, the wide handle bar..etc etc....

unless it's DH/FR.. FS mostly compensates for lacking riding skills (not that there isn't anything to be said for that).

And everytime I'm riding my FS up a steep grade.. I just want to chuck the damn thing in the bushes!!


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## enicma (Jun 30, 2007)

Check some complete hardtails like the Kona Steely or Transition TransAm (or Jamis Komodo)


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## TigerHijinks (Jul 11, 2011)

I can't offer any advice to the OP as I'm in a similar position myself. Wondering how much I should be worried about component durability? Pretty much decided on a HT 29er, local shop is Trek so Marlin, Mamba, Cobia, X-Caliber are the options. Is there a point in the component line up where the weight savings reduce durability. Leaning towards the X-Caliber based on the idea of getting as much as I can upfront, unless the X.7 stuff is over the durability hump. Cobia is a mix of X.7, X.5 and Alivio. Mamba is a mix of Alivio, Acera, and Deore. LBS tries to upsell stuff like crazy so I'm trying to do as much research as possible on my own first.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

TigerHijinks said:


> I can't offer any advice to the OP as I'm in a similar position myself. Wondering how much I should be worried about component durability? Pretty much decided on a HT 29er, local shop is Trek so Marlin, Mamba, Cobia, X-Caliber are the options. Is there a point in the component line up where the weight savings reduce durability. Leaning towards the X-Caliber based on the idea of getting as much as I can upfront, unless the X.7 stuff is over the durability hump. Cobia is a mix of X.7, X.5 and Alivio. Mamba is a mix of Alivio, Acera, and Deore. LBS tries to upsell stuff like crazy so I'm trying to do as much research as possible on my own first.


the X-Cal or the Paragon is going to be my next bike. I've not ridden one.. but I've researched them.

I own a Jamis Durango 3 and a Specialized Enduro Pro.. and I'm totally in love with my hard tail.

I'd say the Paragon is the step below where the bikes become more fragile. The superfly is already an entry level carbon race bike.. doesn't sound like that's where you want to be. (me neither)


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## SeattleLyndella (Jul 11, 2011)

*I'm new to this..sorry I think I'm in the wrong area..*

I am a new rider (sort of...don't have my own bike yet) and I want to get a bike that is good for the road as well as trails (not hard core). I have an opportunity to purchase a new full suspension bike for 900 bucks (2009 kona dawgma) but someone told me it wont be a good ride on the road? Should I get a hard tail instead?


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Greg Bell said:


> Sort of middle GA. I am probably the guy you are thinking of. I am a huge gun nut.
> 
> I think I may get the Yeti.


If you are a gun nut, how many guns do you have? Mountain biking is like everything else if you are not a nut you'll find the way to work with one bike, but when your nut meter goes up does not matter how good your bike is you'll bet another one. I remember when the first time I put a top build on my bike, I said to my brother this is it, I don't have to upgrade anymore. Well, it's sort of true I didn't upgrade that bike anymore but I found more bikes to upgrade

As your your choice, Yeti is good but don't limit yourself for testing only one bike try a lot if not all if you can. Parking lot test does not do much of telling but it serves as a good judge of bike fit. At 5.5" 29er may not be a good choice it can be done but it's not optimum.

My choice would be the Trance X or Jekyll as well as Yeti the 575 is very nice as well but even the small size Yeti would feel big for you as Yeti run them big.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

SeattleLyndella said:


> I am a new rider (sort of...don't have my own bike yet) and I want to get a bike that is good for the road as well as trails (not hard core). I have an opportunity to purchase a new full suspension bike for 900 bucks (2009 kona dawgma) but someone told me it wont be a good ride on the road? Should I get a hard tail instead?


I'd say don't go FS for two reasons:

1. They really eat into your pedaling. Unless you're doing hard core trails a FS just slows you down.

2. At $900 on a FS, you're really getting near the bottom of the barrel.

If you want a bike for both road and light trails, get a steel hardtail (steel has more give) with thin tubes,.. nice and light weight. I'd make sure the suspension fork has a lockout that works well. Travel is a PITB on the road.


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## SeattleLyndella (Jul 11, 2011)

Thanks for your input Steve..


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Jnthomps08 said:


> I dont agree with this. Everyone talks about more travel like it is the key to world peace, but, like others have said, the XC HT has been around for years and it still gets the job done.
> 
> Furthermore, I am looking at a more aggressive (All Mtn) bike and I still find myself gravitating to slacker hardtails designed around 130mm of travel.
> 
> I will say that many things have made me a better mountain biker (clipless pedals, owning a road bike) but the times that i have spent in the saddle of a FS bike, I was underwhelmed and did not feel the need to have one for the riding/racing that I do.


If you are a racer you may not need a FS because most XC race courses are pretty buff and cater to XC riders, and you probably had enough commitment and skills to be on a hardtail. Beside weight, FS would benefit riders all the way around from a short travel 100mm to a long travel 180+.

Avg riders who want to get into the sport can benefit more control and comfort FS provide.



Jnthomps08 said:


> Okay. I think we are misunderstanding each other. I wrote my reply because I thought you were implying FS was a necessity; I am an advocate that it isnt. Hence, in my looking at AM bikes, (a discipline that is certainly more populated by FS bikes) I was still looking at HTs.
> 
> I dont think everyone needs an aggressive bike. I wouldnt ride an AM bike anywhere that i havent taken my Niner. I live and ride in Pisgah, NC, by the way.
> 
> IMHO, the "best all around mountain bike for a beginner who doesnt want to keep buying" is a HT at the SLX/X7 level, with disc brakes, and a set of handbuilt wheels that were about $500.


If you've got the skills and experience you can ride a rigid bike and still able to control the bike over all kinds of terrain. Unfortunately, not all have that kind of skills so FS would help speed up the process a bit. Why spend so much time learning on HT when you can cut that time in over half.



Stevuke said:


> I can't agree more. This is crucial advice.
> 
> The whole FS excitement is more about "coolness" than anything else.
> 
> ...


What FS do you have that you want to chuck it into the bushes. I don't loose anything riding FS. I do ride my HT and SoftTail from time to time on the same trail and almost the same line as my AM bikes. I know it can be done but it's so much better with the FS. There's nothing wrong with riding a HT but to say that FS is reserved to only Gravity stuff is just absurd.



Stevuke said:


> I'd say don't go FS for two reasons:
> 
> 1. They really eat into your pedaling. Unless you're doing hard core trails a FS just slows you down.
> 
> ...


Right tool for the right job, I don't ride my trail bikes on the road, not only it's dangerous it's just does not make any sense lugging the weight and travel around. You don't need to be a hard core trail rider to enjoy FS, you just need to find a good FS even at $900 budget, try used.:thumbsup:

A Steel bike is more forgiving, yes but not even close to being noticeable especially to a new rider. They can't tell the difference between a 3/2.5 to 6/4 ti to steel and Alu don't kid yourself. I know I own all of them on a short ride less than 2hrs you can't tell how forgiving they are. Ride characteristic, may be comfort? I doubt that:thumbsup:

You can love all the good qualities HT has been to you without trashing FS or spewing misconceptions. I understand that FS is not for everyone but to say that it's only for HardCore, or DH, come on get real. I've been on a few more bikes than an avg riders I've not been on a hardtail that's better than a FS for trail riding. They can be fun at the right time and place but not all the time if given choices.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Greg Bell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I want to avoid the endless upgrade cycle if possible. In the gun world for years you would have been told to just buy a S&W J frame 38. And now you will be told to just buy a Glock 19 (or would have until the Gen 4 debacle). In the sports car world someone would tell you to just buy a Miata or a Mustang 5.0.
> 
> ...


Giant Trance X1, the Swiss Army Knife of the biking world. It climbs like a goat, has 120mm of travel to soak up the rough, pedals well seated or standing, can double as a XC racer, is pretty light out of the box and is an exceptional value. There is a huge amount of misinformation in this thread, please be very careful taking some of the advice posted in it. My two cents. Good luck.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> If you are a racer you may not need a FS because most XC race courses are pretty buff and cater to XC riders, and you probably had enough commitment and skills to be on a hardtail. Beside weight, FS would benefit riders all the way around from a short travel 100mm to a long travel 180+.
> 
> Avg riders who want to get into the sport can benefit more control and comfort FS provide.
> 
> ...


I have a specialized enduro.. excellent bike,.. I enjoy it very much. However, when I'm going up a steep grade, I do wish I was riding my hardtail. I don't think that's so crazy to say.

I'm definitely not trashing FS.. I own a FS and ride it all the time. I love my enduro and I take good care of it and treat it with love. I do however think that FS can be overused to the detriment of newer riders.. some people get the FS because it is viewed as the better bike. I think it's important that people understand that there is a lot more that makes a bike other than the rear suspension. When I was brand new, I didn't really understand that.

I'm not trashing the FS.. but when someone says they're looking for basic trail riding, IMHO, unless they have their heart set in another direction, go for the badass hardtail.

As far as the right tool for the right job.. I agree 1,000%.. but there is nothing wrong for someone to want a "do it all bike" when doing the urban bike paths that flow into woodsy bike paths/light-trails.

I don't think you neccessarily need two bikes right away. I think you can do quite well with a bike that's good for both urban riding and light trails.

I would agree 100% if she wanted a bike to go road biking with AND do all the rocks and logs on which I relish my FS. Then you really do need two.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

Just to clarify, when I say that on a steep grade I want to chuck my FS, I'm not bashing my FS... or FS in general.

I am however saying that if your trails aren't "rough" enough to make a FS essential.. there is a steep pedaling power cost.


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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

Didn't read everything but I do agree with Ricky. First real mountain bike was a steel hardtail. Couple years later, went to a 4" FS bike and swore I would never go back. Bought a 2009 STP new 3 months ago, saved well over 20% off retail due to it being 2 years old. I love it. It is not the fastest bike but I have confidence it won't break and I have a ton of fun on it from rolling singletrack to massive rock gardens to urban riding to the skate park. IMHO, having a hardtail teaches you how to take drops properly. And remember, if you have legs that bend (i.e. NOT like Cotton Hill), you've got suspension


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Greg Bell said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> What I am looking for is the basic, damn good Mountain bike that is an *all-around best buy.
> *
> ...





Stevuke said:


> Just to clarify, when I say that on a steep grade I want to chuck my FS, I'm not bashing my FS... or FS in general.
> 
> I am however saying that if your trails aren't "rough" enough to make a FS essential.. there is a steep pedaling power cost.


OP wants good all around one bike, a hardtail is not it for what he wants. I'd say it again Trance X would be a good buy it can climb, and descend better than any hardtail I can imagine. It can be build fairly light with the mid travel range OP would have more room to explore rougher trails or ride more aggressive if he wants to.

If budget is not a priority I'd helped my friends get their first FS. It's easier and faster way to learn. Spending 6mo-2yrs on the saddle to get over the fear of tech section is not good for the sport. All of the skills you learn from riding FS transfer to HT but not quite the other way around. My wife rode HT for a few years before FS she's mainly rode fireroad as some singletrack just freaks her out. After FS, she can ride more tech trails and looking forward to trying harder trails because she has more control of the bike and have much less fear of descending. Now she can do the same thing on HT just add extra body suspension. It's a great tool for new riders, unless they are in their teen and still invincible


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## SeattleLyndella (Jul 11, 2011)

"Right tool for the right job, I don't ride my trail bikes on the road, not only it's dangerous it's just does not make any sense lugging the weight and travel around. You don't need to be a hard core trail rider to enjoy FS, you just need to find a good FS even at $900 budget, try used.:thumbsup:"

Just so you know, this is the bike I can get new for 900..original price was $1700.

konaworld.com/09/09_dawgma_en.cfm[/url]


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

michaelscott said:


> *A bike is like a woman. You've gotta spend time with a few of them before you realize what you want/don't want/can't afford.*


And a woman is like a bike - you can get excellent performance out of an inexpensive one, but only if you're willing to put in the maintenance. 

OP - if you're able to read anything between the lines in this thread, I hope it's that you can do most of the same trails on pretty much anything from the Yeti ARC to bikes with 150 to 160mm of travel front and back. What's going to change is the flavor.

My personal biases and experience are such that I'd choose the ARC over a FS bike for any trail where I had to ride up to ride down and had the opportunity to do the ride up on singletrack. If I only ever climbed fire roads, I might sacrifice some climbing efficiency and handling to have more fun on the way down. However, I'm open to the possibility (and think you should be too) that a XC race bike with rear suspension or a trail (like, 120mm travel) bike could be more fun for me under those same circumstances.

Dawgma person - if you're riding road, you're going to be really unhappy with an all-mountain FS bike. IMHO, XC hardtails are the best dual-use bikes.


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## Stevuke (Nov 14, 2010)

That looks like an awesome bike. I'm no expert, but $900 sounds right to me if it's in great condition.

I completely retract my previous statement. $900 used is a good price for FS.. that's what I paid for mine used 

IMVHO - that's the wrong bike if you want to do any substantial road/urban riding. Of course, if you're mostly a trail rider,.. you can ride any bike on the road if you have to once in a while.


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## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

I looked at a Trek hardtail today. It was about 799. It looked kind of cheapy. I may go to ATL to look at a few more.

OR I could pull the trigger on the Yeti 575. I would if I could find one to sit on to determine whether I need S or XS. I am 5'4 with short legs and a long trunk.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

If you can, resist the urge to buy now until you get to try more bike since you don't want to keep buying. The only spending you are doing right now is time and travel but you gain info on what you like or don't like. This is a good time for buyers, lots of sales and demo. Take your time. You'd be glad you did.


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## pfox90 (Aug 8, 2010)

Why would you go from looking at a $800 trek ht to a Yeti 575? I think you should get real about your budget first, decide whether or not you want a FS bike. And then test ride all the bikes in your price class for the best fitting one.


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## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

Like I said, my budget is 1-3k


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## ldollard (Jul 13, 2011)

thats a pretty huge difference in bikes i suspect between 1-3k, perhaps it would be better to write down exactly what you want the bike for, whats most important. Weight, strength, comfort, durability, design and then go from there. Also i've personally learnt you cant test ride a bike on the internet, so going into stores and actually sitting and riding the bike it really the only way to get the feel of it.

Additionally a lot of stores have swap policies, you dont like it you can bring it back and replace it. 

Also sorry if this is a dumb question, but you dont mention if your a beginner or not (perhaps you did, if so sorry), if you are, personally from my perspective i wouldn't spend money on an expensive bike with all the cool ****, only to realise most of its useless for your needs. again this goes back to trying out the bikes at the store in the first place. I doubt its cool to flip your bike on the trail and bend a 3k frame because you've never ridden that way before... I haven't properly cycled in 10 yrs, just getting back into it, but thats how i'd view it anyway.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

ldollard said:


> Additionally a lot of stores have swap policies, you dont like it you can bring it back and replace it.


Read the fine print, it's much easier to swap out a commuter or road bike, but a mountain bike not all stores would do that.


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## ldollard (Jul 13, 2011)

mimi1885 said:


> Read the fine print, it's much easier to swap out a commuter or road bike, but a mountain bike not all stores would do that.


That is correct, but obviously as an adult, i'd hope one would do that or at least ask a member of staff, but its a good point to make. :thumbsup:


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## TigerHijinks (Jul 11, 2011)

Might have found the bike for me. LBS couldn't get any Trek stuff right now so they ordered in a Redline D600. X5 all around, 2x9 with bb5 brakes. They say the Dart 3 is a pretty good starter fork. Mamba is closest in the Trek line, one review of it said they compromised other aspects to upgrade the fork on it, 3x8 lower grade shifters etc. Looks like a pretty decent bike and I was hating to have to go out of town. Going to demo it and maybe demo some Trek's out of town this weekend and then decide.


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## masseymtb (Jul 13, 2011)

I was in the same position.. I bought a Ironhorse hardtail, and then rode for a year. It is, and still, is a great bike. I spent only $650 (on sale) on the Ironhorse. I now have done research over this last year while riding and getting to know my own riding style. Stepping up to a full-s soon.


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## sluggo69 (Sep 14, 2009)

*all around bike*

my vote is a stumpjumper fsr comp


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## five5 (Jun 27, 2011)

I just got a Gary Fisher Paragon 29er.

It's an amazing bike. Lots of top end parts, 29er feels really good, the G2 geometry feels really nice.

I picked it up for $1700 out the door X9 drive train, Fox 100mm travel front end... Very nice Hydrolic disc brake system.

I'm just getting back into it after a few years off. It was a damn good choice!


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## allenfstar (Jul 7, 2011)

TigerHijinks said:


> Might have found the bike for me. LBS couldn't get any Trek stuff right now so they ordered in a Redline D600. X5 all around, 2x9 with bb5 brakes. They say the Dart 3 is a pretty good starter fork. Mamba is closest in the Trek line, one review of it said they compromised other aspects to upgrade the fork on it, 3x8 lower grade shifters etc. Looks like a pretty decent bike and I was hating to have to go out of town. Going to demo it and maybe demo some Trek's out of town this weekend and then decide.


how much are they asking for that redline? dart three is ok its what i started riding hard on but after a year i needed more travel


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## TigerHijinks (Jul 11, 2011)

allenfstar said:


> how much are they asking for that redline? dart three is ok its what i started riding hard on but after a year i needed more travel


$950 on the tag. Don't remember any perq's. I think they offer a tuneup after the first month.

Last time I bought a mountain bike was probably 10 years go, got a rigid GF Tarpon, about the cheapest thing you could get outside of Walmart. Not sure what exactly to expect going with a 29'er and front suspension but it felt pretty good when I tried it out today.


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## wanderinginhel (Dec 30, 2010)

If your looking for a good do all FS bike, I suggest the speesh pitch. Its a well proven, dependable setup, and they can take a big thrashing. Not to mention you can get really good deals on them.


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## allenfstar (Jul 7, 2011)

TigerHijinks said:


> $950 on the tag. Don't remember any perq's. I think they offer a tuneup after the first month.
> 
> Last time I bought a mountain bike was probably 10 years go, got a rigid GF Tarpon, about the cheapest thing you could get outside of Walmart. Not sure what exactly to expect going with a 29'er and front suspension but it felt pretty good when I tried it out today.


thats alot for no travel and mechanical disc brakes try the new carve from specialized will be hitting ur ocal dealer real soon entry is 1350 bbut comes pretty loaded

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCProduct.jsp?spid=62242&scid=1099&scname=2012+Early+Launch


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Just what we need. Another model name.

I wonder if it's replacing the Stumpjumper hardtail, or just going between that and the Rockhopper.


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## allenfstar (Jul 7, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Just what we need. Another model name.
> 
> I wonder if it's replacing the Stumpjumper hardtail, or just going between that and the Rockhopper.


rockhopper stops at 29er comp and is now more of an xc trail bike. the carve looks to step into low end 29er xc racing/trail carve is also a strictly 29er model


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

demo demo demo

Visit as many different shops as you can and try out different brands, models, and styles of bikes.

Still, regardless of what you buy now, chances are at some point you will want a different or another bike. I have two right now, planning for a third.

An Enduro is a fair bit of suspension and totally expected that you'd lose out on some climbing capability with something like that. But there is a balance to be met. A FS with less travel will most likely climb better, but it won't be quite as capable on the downhills and in the air.

For me, a 4" FS has been pretty good for the riding I currently do and the riding I've traveled to do. Good on the uphill and good enough for me on the downhill. I've never once felt like the bike was a pig on long, steep climbs. For stuff like that, the altitude gives me far more trouble than the bike.

And since I don't go for big air all the time (I will go for little air on occasion, though) or approach terminal velocity on the downhills or try to blast through technical sections without any finesse, the amount of travel works for me. If I was going to upgrade or replace my FS, I might go with 5" simply because design advancements have given 5" bikes nearly as much uphill capability as my older 4" bike.

But I still haven't quite decided whether I want a slacker head angle HT or a FS for my next bike. I don't even know yet if I would prefer a 26er or a 29er, a SS, geared, or internally geared bike (but I have to say that a belt drive bike does tickle my fancy). I'm going to have to get out and demo a bunch of bikes to help me make my decision.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Greg Bell said:


> I looked at a Trek hardtail today. It was about 799. It looked kind of cheapy. I may go to ATL to look at a few more.
> 
> OR I could pull the trigger on the Yeti 575. I would if I could find one to sit on to determine whether I need S or XS. I am 5'4 with short legs and a long trunk.


I used to ride a Vespa in college and want to get back into mororcycling. I don't want to have to spend the money on an entry level bike just to turn around and want to upgrade after a while. Do you think I should get the Suzuki Hayabusa or the Kawasaki Ninja ZX-10R? Or should I just get a Harley Heritage Softail? 

That is what this thread reminds me of. Perhaps a bit over the top, but only to illustrate the point.

My $0.02: Get a nice entry level or mid-grade hardtail. That way, you'll not be so all over the map when it's time to get the bike that really suits you well and you will have developed critical riding skills that might not get developed going right into a nicer FS bike (and you'll likely guess wrong about buying it at this stage of your MTB journey anyway). If you're really that concerned about the money spent on this bike, buy a well taken care of used bike and you won't lose as much on the resale.

This is an example of a new bike that should serve your purposes that will be a definite step above entry level at an excellent price (the one thing that could be an issue is sizing):

http://www.airbornebicycles.com/products/97-goblin.aspx


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## ricky916 (Jun 7, 2011)

jeffj said:


> I used to ride a Vespa in college and want to get back into mororcycling. I don't want to have to spend the money on an entry level bike just to turn around and want to upgrade after a while. Do you think I should get the Suzuki Hayabusa or the Kawasaki Ninja ZX-10R? Or should I just get a Harley Heritage Softail?


ZX-14! lol


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## allenfstar (Jul 7, 2011)

[/QUOTE]

This is an example of a new bike that should serve your purposes that will be a definite step above entry level at an excellent price (the one thing that could be an issue is sizing):

http://www.airbornebicycles.com/products/97-goblin.aspx[/QUOTE]

never heard of that company but that is a great component package for the price


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## Greg Bell (Jul 10, 2011)

Allright! Ordered a Yeti 575!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Nice.

Pics when you get it.


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## COTarHeel (Apr 30, 2011)

hardwarz said:


> Spend as much as you can afford


Ahh... ain't that always the case?


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