# Switching from HT to FS for Back Relief?



## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Nothing serious, but a few years ago my back started feeling the effects of too many years running heel-toe on hard surfaces. Changed my form & stride, began running only on trails & switched to more neutral shoes. Wow, what a difference. Now I'm wondering if switching from a HT to FS bike would also be good for my back? I'm on a Trek Superfly HT. Its a 29" AL frame & I'm running 2.35 & 2.20 tubeless. To me its a fairly smooth ride & I really don't "need" FS on any of my local trails. However, I'd make the switch if there was a compelling reason.

Has anyone made the HT to FS switch specifically to reduce or prevent back issues? And, if so, have the results been what you hoped?


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I didn't do it for my back, but I certainly noticed that my rides became less of a beating. This is on trails with a fair amount of rocks and roots. If your trails have noticeable chatter, you'd probably see an improvement.

Bike fit makes a bigger difference. Paying someone to help you should help, but IMO mountain bikers really need to take ownership of their own fits too.

For disclaimer, I'm well under fifty. Found your post clicking "latest posts. "


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## peterk123 (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm 49, close enough. I just made the switch. Been on a hardtail for almost three years. Just picked up a 2014 stumpjumper. 

I'm not convinced it will be easier on the back. What I found though is that I do not tire as much because I can sit my ass on the seat when I need a breather. On the hardtail, I was out of the saddle a lot, especially when going downhill. I ride mostly rocky and rooty trails. I used a dropper on my hardtail to help with the downhills and bony sections. 

I am actually a bit more beat up after my rides now with the stumpy because I can be out there for much longer and I am back to hitting drops and small kickers; the reason I sold my full suspension freeride bike three years ago. With that said, the rides are much more enjoyable. I just enjoy the stuff too much. My new to me stumpjumper 29er almost pedals as efficiently as my hardtail. Swapping over my carbon wheels, wider bars and converting it to a 1x as we speak. Can't wait to ride it once all the changes are complete.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Riding the current full suspension bike hasn't had much effect on how I approach things. Maybe one of the places my age shows. I'll plow through the same rock gardens and root beds and ride off the same drops on my 26" hardtail. I might be a little more conservative about jumps because I start having trouble maintaining control at lower speeds, so it's harder for me to hit the minimum speed for them.

It's also moved the needle a bit with respect to what's too rough for me to pedal through. Which is a big part of why I bought the full suspension bike - I was impressed by how well I could carry speed on one I demoed.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> If your trails have noticeable chatter, you'd probably see an improvement.
> 
> Bike fit makes a bigger difference. Paying someone to help you should help, but IMO mountain bikers really need to take ownership of their own fits too.


Yep, a whole lot of rocks and roots, not a ton of serious climbing or descents...just a lot of punchy stuff. Regarding fit...yeah, good suggestion. I spent time & $ on pro fit with my road bike but haven't on my MTB...will do that over winter. Thanks.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

AndrwSwitch said:


> It's also moved the needle a bit with respect to what's too rough for me to pedal through. Which is a big part of why I bought the full suspension bike - I was impressed by how well I could carry speed on one I demoed.


Yeah, I've talked to lots of FS folks who mention being able to pedal more fluidly and carry more speed through some stretches of trail that gave them trouble on their HT.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

OldGringo said:


> Yep, a whole lot of rocks and roots, not a ton of serious climbing or descents...just a lot of punchy stuff. Regarding fit...yeah, good suggestion. I spent time & $ on pro fit with my road bike but haven't on my MTB...will do that over winter. Thanks.


I only ever paid for the one fit, on my road bike. For me, it was like a light bulb turned on. Now that I've felt "good," I feel pretty confident setting up my mountain bikes myself.

OTOH, I know people who get a fit for every new bike. Nobody's forcing them to do anything, so...


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

peterk123 said:


> What I found though is that I do not tire as much because I can sit my ass on the seat when I need a breather. On the hardtail, I was out of the saddle a lot, especially when going downhill. I ride mostly rocky and rooty trails. I used a dropper on my hardtail to help with the downhills and bony sections.


Hadn't thought of the potential benefits of a dropper on my HT. I'm ALWAYS out of the saddle on descents. I guess that takes more out of my legs over the course of a ride than sitting. Would take some getting used to...I really feel like I have total control when I come off and drop back behind the saddle with the pedals flat/parallel.


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## TMack0704 (Dec 1, 2015)

I just turned 55 and have had a FS (Epic) for about 3 years. Sounds like I ride trails similar to you. I went from my hardtail to this bike specifically because of my back. It would start to ache after about an hour of riding. The difference has been dramatic. No more backaches. As a fringe benefit I can also successfully climb hills I never made it up on the hardtail. I highly recomend the change.


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## thegock (Jan 21, 2014)

*Agree*



TMack0704 said:


> I just turned 55 and have had a FS (Epic) for about 3 years. Sounds like I ride trails similar to you. I went from my hardtail to this bike specifically because of my back. It would start to ache after about an hour of riding. The difference has been dramatic. No more backaches. As a fringe benefit I can also successfully climb hills I never made it up on the hardtail. I highly recomend the change.


This was exactly my experience at age 59. Back used to ache, especially on 3+ hour rides. Huge improvement with a FS carbon frame-all the difference in the world.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Thanks for the feedback guys. Did about 2.5 hr ride a few days ago, about half of it over bone-jarring rock. Everything felt fine the day after except my back...no real pain...just tight and stiff. I have a good relationship at my LBS. Think I'll demo a FS for a few days in the spring and pull the trigger if it feels right. Gives me motivation to lose the HT vs. FS weight difference over the winter!


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## sick4surf (Feb 4, 2004)

I use my hard tail on rides of about an hour or less but switch to full suspension on longer rides to avoid back pain. I'm almost 59 with multiple back problems and full suspension has helped me ride longer. I also have a fat bike which is like a full suspension but the thing I learned while fat biking is that I have the bike carry everything that I used to carry in my camelback. This has made a remarkable improvement in reducing back pain. There are many types of small bags to transfer the load from your backback to your bike. Try that on your next hardtail ride but lower the pressure in your tires for less pin balling.


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## Yvesp (Apr 11, 2016)

Came back to mtb last year after injury that kept me away fron the sport for just over 20 years. Now I'm 63 and thanks to full suspension my smile has come back. Never could of make it on a ht.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Yep. I finder longer rides on rough terrain easier on FS as I can sit more and overall get less beat up.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

OldGringo said:


> Nothing serious, but a few years ago my back started feeling the effects of too many years running heel-toe on hard surfaces. Changed my form & stride, began running only on trails & switched to more neutral shoes. Wow, what a difference. Now I'm wondering if switching from a HT to FS bike would also be good for my back? I'm on a Trek Superfly HT. Its a 29" AL frame & I'm running 2.35 & 2.20 tubeless. To me its a fairly smooth ride & I really don't "need" FS on any of my local trails. However, I'd make the switch if there was a compelling reason.
> 
> Has anyone made the HT to FS switch specifically to reduce or prevent back issues? And, if so, have the results been what you hoped?


Yes. Initially. I've had a Sugar 293, a Niner JET 9, a Niner RIP 9, and will soon own a Yeti ASRC. I've also spent time riding a Santa Cruz Tallboy, IBIS Ripley LS, and a few others (due to rentals on trips).

I've been fighting the back issue for years. I have a HT, a softail, and my FS bikes. Yes, a sweet spot FS (120 - 130mm of travel) is a nice cushion for the back. Less so for the XC race oriented Full Suspension bikes due to their shorter travel, but they do provide enough cushion and traction to help somewhat. Some are better than others and allowing you to not get so beat up going down the hill.

Lots of core work, and stretching will help keep the back in tolerable shape no matter what bike you are sitting on as well. After years of riding only FS, I started working more on my core and adding a good stretching routine, lost weight and have found that my HT and softail are not so bad after all.:thumbsup:

You could add a Thudbuster ST for a little cushion to your HT - it really helps!!! You could also go to a 2.3 or 2.35 in the rear and run lower psi (your weight divided by 7 and then adjust down a pound from there).

I find my steel frame Karate Monkey with a 2.35 Racing Ralph in the rear, and my layback post to be a very forgiving HT. Surprisingly so thanks to the steel frame and big volume tires...



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https://flic.kr/p/CoZSo2
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/71[email protected]/

My softail enhanced with either the Thudbuster ST or the Specialized CG-R post and a 2.3 tire in the rear is very, very comfortable and extremely kind on the back...



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https://flic.kr/p/FaXsgK
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



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https://flic.kr/p/FLqVGL
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/

A FS set up to give you some nice squish with at least 100mm in the rear doesn't get rid of all back problems, but it can maintain your stamina so you are felling fresher a bit longer if you are out doing more than 2 hour rides. The more benefits of a FS have to do with traction in the rear. And that also ties in with have a rear wheel that stays on the ground rather than bouncing around which all heads up the seat tube to your back.

Again, lower pressure rear tire with good volume, and a seatpost with some suspension in it can soften up that HT of yours quite a bit. I'm not a big advocate of simply staying seated while riding a mountain bike. The best suspension is your body (knees), so moving around on the bike lifting off the saddle on the big chunk/bumps/logs/rough stuff still is the best technique whether you are on a HT, softail, or FS.

Then again, my wife who is 58 rides full rigid and doesn't see what all my hubbub is about suspension and my back.:skep:


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> Lots of core work, and stretching will help keep the back in tolerable shape no matter what bike you are sitting on as well. After years of riding only FS, I started working more on my core and adding a good stretching routine, lost weight and have found that my HT and softail are not so bad after all.:thumbsup:
> 
> You could also go to a 2.3 or 2.35 in the rear and run lower psi (your weight divided by 7 and then adjust down a pound from there).
> 
> Again, lower pressure rear tire with good volume, and a seatpost with some suspension in it can soften up that HT of yours quite a bit. I'm not a big advocate of simply staying seated while riding a mountain bike. The best suspension is your body (knees), so moving around on the bike lifting off the saddle on the big chunk/bumps/logs/rough stuff still is the best technique whether you are on a HT, softail, or FS.


ding ding ding


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## Centurion_ (Aug 13, 2011)

Stopped running in my early 40's. I ran a lot 50 and 60+ mile weeks for a couple of decades. Stopped racing crits when I hit 50, also due to the back, as I could no longer maintain a decent aero position on the bike, and sold my last road bike in my early 60's for the same reason.

I used a thudbuster on my old merlin hardtail and it hwas somewhat helpful, but now mostly ride a full suspension 29er.

A narrower handlebar, shorter stem, raising the bars to about the height of my saddle helped me find a riding position that doesn't stress the back so much. To find a position that works, I bought a cheapie adjustable stem for the hardtail and played with it for a couple of months till I found the lowest position that wouldn't aggravate my back.

Core work helps, for sure, but with arthritis, strength and conditioning can only help so much.

Somebody mentioned a bike fit earlier. The trick is to find a position that isn't any more upright than necessary but won't hurt your back. That takes trial and error, and you have to do that yourself.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

jeffscott said:


> ding ding ding


This. I'm 65, but after riding ss rigid for ~three years my back got pretty bombproof. I find my hands are very sensitive to higher frequency vibrations, which my fsr can't remove, but running 2.35 Ikons at 18/20 psi with loop bars completely eliminates. I can't get by with those low tire pressures on the fsr, too many flats.


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

I've had lower back and knee issues for a long time due to moto x crashes. Have owned HT, rigid HT, low travel FS, long travel FS and DH bikes and none have made much of a difference to my back, guess that suspension design and quality of shocks can make a difference but I hardly noticed it.

Have been on a HT full time for the past 6 years but since jumping into a rigid fat bike HT now I'm considering getting rid of the HT and going back to FS to complement the fatty.


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## coyotegulch (Jun 25, 2008)

I have multiple back issues, but strangely enough the bike doesn't bother them. Never the less I got rid of my HT two years ago in favor of a soft tail. I ride it on a couple local trails that have gotten pretty rough and I use it to race. I do enjoy the smoother all around ride it provides over what the HT was like and I find myself significantly less fatigued afterwards.
I have a FS ride for the more demanding and challenging rides.


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## tomparker (Mar 1, 2013)

Two back surgeries for L4/L5 and L5/S1 disks here, and switched to mountain biking from Brazilian jujitsu after the second surgery in an attempt to maintain long-term fitness and recover leg strength lost from nerve damage. 50 years old on paper, dammit. I started with a carbon HT, geared, and that grinding nerve pain some of you may be familiar with diminished, but still persisted. A couple years ago I bought a Nashbar 29er rigid single speed, just to try single speed. This changed my riding position to standing more than half the time, and I think all the climbing and upper body action really tightened up my core. After beating myself up on that bike in a couple long races, I picked up a HT singlespeed that fits me well. For the first time since I was in my early thirties, I have many days with no back pain whatsoever. So I will be that guy in the singlespeed ad, saying it was the magic cure for me. That said, my next bike will be a full suspension trail bike with gears--not for the back pain relief, but for the group rides here in western Montana. I will continue to "race" (at a leisurely pace compared to actual podium-type racers) the SS Ti El Mar--True Grit 50 last month, and upcoming two 12 hour races and Park City P2P on the schedule this year! I think the key to reducing back pain is never sit still, keep moving, stay strong, stay light; put that on the daily schedule along with your work, meetings and family duties. Rest is important, but don't ever make a habit of sitting down. Your mileage may vary, though, of course...


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## robgdds (Aug 14, 2016)

I'm 48 been started riding in 1988, never had back problems. I quit riding seriously in 2000. Then in 2010 I broke my back in 2 places and herniated 6 disks in a snow sledding accident. I was wrecked, never thought I would do anything after that, but thru physical therapy I could work and function. I moved to North Phoenix 2 years ago and could see all the trails cut into the mountains and I knew I had to get back into it again. 

I purchased a hardtail last year but after my first ride I was wondering what I had gotten myself into. I loved being on the trails but the pain afterwards was affecting my work (dentist). So I purchased a thud-buster LT, what a difference, now I could ride for hours and feel OK. After using this for a while on my hardtail I was riding beyond the bikes limits and figured I needed a new FS bike. A local shop had a good deal on the stumpie 6fattie carbon so I picked it up. Now not only does my back not hurt at all but I feel pretty fresh after a crazy hard 3 hour ride that destroys my hardtail riding partners that are 10 years younger than me and have athletic backgrounds. 

I think at our age the full suspension really takes the stress off the back, arms and legs. All those sharp impacts over hours of riding will really do a number on your back. When riding a hardtail I find myself having to stand a lot more to soften the impact to my back which really tires me out over time. With the FS I just sit and ride thru it seated. Also my knees have been feeling a lot better since I got this bike. 

Last week we rode in Sedona, I swapped bikes with my wife for a while so she could try out the new bike. After about 1 mile of rocky downhill I had to swap back because I felt like I could take much more.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

An alternative to FS is to consider a fatbike or a bike with plus size tyres, eg 27.5+ or 29er+

I reckon most of the problem is with high frequency vibrations and the low pressures you can safely run in those tyres damp the vibration right out.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Big fat tires are equivalent to 80-100mm of travel, but have very little damping so can get quite bouncy. Adding a suspension fork can help provide some damping that's missing with the tires alone.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^How so?


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## jimbslim (Feb 5, 2011)

Riding my 907 fat bike w/5" tires gives great roll and grip over the small or loose stuff to rip over buff and sandy trails but on rougher trail the bouncy effect makes a bit of work to control the bike and my line. Luckily the big tires are forgiving but it can wear me out on a long ride. 

Conversely on a Fatillac 29+ FS the ride is similar on the buff trails but when the going gets chunky the bike floats over crud and I'm less beat up and riding faster farther than on my fat bike. 

I wouldn't equate fat tires with suspension at all, but certainly a plusher ride than a standard tired mtn bike. The FS bike gets pulled out for duty on most dirt rides but I'll never get rid of my fat bike, just keeping it for snow riding now. 

YMMV - enjoy your ride


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Lone Rager said:


> Big fat tires are equivalent to 80-100mm of travel, but have very little damping so can get quite bouncy. Adding a suspension fork can help provide some damping that's missing with the tires alone.


 Is that new math? 4" tires do not make 4" of suspension, IMHO. Cushy,yes. No buzz or chatter, yup. Maybe 1.5 inches, max.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Absolutely, a full suspension bike will reduce impact, this is why I made the switch two years ago at 49.

Full suspension also climbs better, gets better traction, and handles better, so the benefits are more than just comfort.

There's a very good reason that cars, trucks, and motorcycles have full suspension; )

BTW, tires do not replace suspension, that's bullarky. I ride fat and plus, the fatter tires are for traction and flotation, they do not replace suspension. 

That's ^ the kool-aid speaking.


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