# How many of your local trails are illegal, and do you ride them?



## DeftJester (Apr 19, 2014)

It's interesting to see the self regulating systems or unspoken social contracts and etiquette that develops from region to region. Some trails are understood to be multi-use with no signs or markings, some are just for hikers that cyclist poach anyway, some for just cyclists that hikers hike anyway, some for downhill, some that you would think should only be downhill but are uphill too and so on. 

So after living in NY, LA and NJ (and road trips to other communities and trail systems) I am curious to take a poll from all our builders on here to see how many of your local trails are illegal, if you ride and enjoy them yourself and what type of unspoken code of conduct is in your area?


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Long ago we worked with the local governments and Forest Service to bring most of our non system trails into the travel management plan. We have so many legal trails that illegal trail building isn't a huge thing here. 

There are some exceptions. One small group of people built a couple miles of trail in an area that the FS wants to keep fairly clear of human use for wildlife reasons. The FS has played cat and mouse with these guys a bit - torn down their bridges, dropped trees across the trail etc. If caught, the builders will certainly be fined. They justify building the trail by arguing that there aren't as many trails in this part of the county as others, but that's relative, there are still miles of great trails within 1 mile of the trail in question. 

It puts the local MTB .org in a tough position because they've worked long and hard to have a great relationship with the land managers and as a result we have literally hundreds of miles of legal singletrack open to bikes. The rogue trail builders don't help the long term relationship at all.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Our experience is similar to zrm's. The local open lands had decades worth of social trails that were adopted as inventoried system trails by the USFS and the city. Some weren't adopted and continue in limbo, because the use continues and it's difficult to really close a trail, especially to foot traffic. There is occasional rogue building. To directly answer your question, I personally don't ride trails I know to be illegal, rogue efforts. My organization brings them to the attention of the relevant land managers. Sometimes they're a problem, but other times they're a solution to a problem they hadn't recognized. I do ride the grey-area legacy trails I mentioned above, though.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

There's not enough land around here to build illegal trails without getting caught - you can't really hide on 100 acres. On the other hand, we have so many land managers in the area open to the idea of allowing recreational trail that working with them to do the job right has resulted in having 10, soon to be 12 trail systems scattered around the area (1-1.5 hour drive time) on 100ish acre plots that we can choose from to ride, and they're all different so it gives us plenty of variety.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

It sounds like a couple of above posters owe a great debt to unsanctioned trail builders, for developing the trail networks they currently enjoy, while also condemning those who would do it now. Interesting.

I have two gray areas locally. One is managed for hunting only, and technically, the fine print prohibits biking, but has a decades old tradition of multi use. It is shared, mostly harmoniously, by hikers, runners, equestrians, and bikers. We have no official standing, so maintenance is kept near the bare minimum requirement. It does have a small jump trail that was almost certainly bandit built, but it's off the main loop, and it's existence is tolerated. One of my favorite sections of trail.

Second example is the local jump park, built in an abandoned city park. The usage is known and begrudgingly accepted by city officials. Ask them about it and they might turn and shake their head a bit. But it's widely known, long standing, and even has an active FB page. Great asset to the community, but the suits don't necessarily see it that way. I ride and build there. 

These types of builds stay underground for a reason. It is damn hard to get things like this built on the up and up, and you've got a better shot once established of not getting bull dozed than you do at getting permission. 

I will ride/build/maintain trail, sanctioned or not, if it's well built and makes sense for the location. I won't stand in my glass house and throw stones.


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

AllMountin' said:


> It sounds like a couple of above posters owe a great debt to unsanctioned trail builders, for developing the trail networks they currently enjoy, while also condemning those who would do it now. Interesting.
> 
> I have two gray areas locally. One is managed for hunting only, and technically, the fine print prohibits biking, but has a decades old tradition of multi use. It is shared, mostly harmoniously, by hikers, runners, equestrians, and bikers. We have no official standing, so maintenance is kept near the bare minimum requirement. It does have a small jump trail that was almost certainly bandit built, but it's off the main loop, and it's existence is tolerated. One of my favorite sections of trail.
> 
> ...


I'm sure it varies by place, but around here most of the non system trails were old roads beds or mining trails. Almost zero were specifically "built" by rogue trail builders. We've been able to work collaboratively with the various land agencies around here to make the process of new trails as easy as possible. That doesn't mean there isn't a process and that doesn't mean we get everything we would like. (IMO the process _should_ have some teeth to it and there shouldn't be trails in some places just because a user group wants them). The local MTB group worked with the Forest Service back when the travel management was up for revision and the deal was this: The FS brings a lot of the non system trails into the system, makes them legal. The local MTB community (and anyone else) helps take care of these trails and ends any illegal trail building. If we want new trails, we do it through the process. It was a fair bargain and if the MTB community is to be thought of as honest, responsible, people who act like adults I think it's important that we keep the bargain.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

AllMountin' said:


> It sounds like a couple of above posters owe a great debt to unsanctioned trail builders, for developing the trail networks they currently enjoy, while also condemning those who would do it now. Interesting.
> 
> I have two gray areas locally. One is managed for hunting only, and technically, the fine print prohibits biking, but has a decades old tradition of multi use. It is shared, mostly harmoniously, by hikers, runners, equestrians, and bikers. We have no official standing, so maintenance is kept near the bare minimum requirement. It does have a small jump trail that was almost certainly bandit built, but it's off the main loop, and it's existence is tolerated. One of my favorite sections of trail.
> 
> ...


You're looking for irony where none exists. The "unsanctioned trail builders" to whom you imagine I owe a great debt are decades of miners, loggers, dirt bikers, Jeepers, and hikers. Mountain bikers started to keep these routes clear in the 1980s. A community effort to preserve the open lands resulted in formation of a local land trust in the 1990s, and the land trust took on trail maintenance duties with the city and USFS. The area was closed to motorized traffic. A major task was inventorying and assessing the existing routes, and addressing design and sustainability concerns, since many of them were largely fall-line double track. Quite a few of the old routes have been obliterated and replaced with lower-angle singletrack. At the same time, new routes were designed and constructed as purpose-built singletrack. All of this work was coordinated with and approved by the relevant land managers. Done within the system, in other words. Your glass house metaphor is completely off the mark.


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## swampboy62 (Feb 10, 2009)

Here in NE Ohio there aren't any real unsanctioned trails that I know of. Most of the 'rogue trails' are ATV trails, but there are very few illegal mtb trails of any distance that I've found out about in the last ten years.

I'm sure that this is a function of our area, which is fairly densely populated with little 'free' woodlands. Out west, or in lesser populated areas (I'm thinking WV) I'd bet the illegal trail thing is entirely different.

Steve Z


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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

Vancouver North Shore-Fromme, Cyprus, Seymore, virtually every trail started as an unauthorized MTB trail. Sedona Az. virtually every trail was originally unauthorized, built by MTB'ers. Gooseberry Mesa, Hurricane UT, was an unauthorized MTB trail. Upper Porcupine Singletrack, part of the world famous "Whole Enchilada" in Moab, was an unauthorized MTB trail. Comfortably Numb. Whistler Valley, was an unauthorized MTB trail. Virtually every trail in Nelson BC, was built by rouge MTB'ers. Most all built by individuals, these are the some of the most famous trails on earth. Rarely do committee made trails or old mining or logging roads reach the status of these legendary trails. Not to condone illegal building, but we must give credit where credit is due.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

In Marin County, CA, I am seeing more and more illegal "runs", rather than purpose built trails. It's awesome! Pretty skilled riders just ride the grass down a fall line or ridge line. Over a few months other riders follow, viola, decent descent. No investment in labor, and hard to get caught (vs $350-400 ticket on hiker trails) and some nice 1500-1800 ft drops. Really a great way to go, when local leaders do not allow any sanctioned trail building in 20 years. I don't like this type of trail on land where we have legal trails, as we chance losing what we have. However, I have a few 3500 ft climbing days each year just riding new temporary grass runs. Unfortunately the ruts grow, and we ride 1 foot over to the side. Pretty ridiculous, but we get our adrenaline fix. The Motorcycle riders in Vallejo are doing the same on Hillsides along hwy 80. What a mess. People get the Leadership they deserve, I guess.


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## iceboxsteve (Feb 22, 2012)

I grew up riding a set of trails in town which could be labeled illegal. Some were not truly open to bikes, but they let us locals ride (we sawed logs). Other trails were not open to bikes per the State, but no one ever used them. And still more were on private property where they knew us or maybe they didn't... In the former case it was just us locals, so they didn't care.

This system still operates. And in the region I think it was the norm, and still is in select locations. But, clubs are forming and trails are being legitimized. Just not where I grew up.

I've lived in a few locations (mostly east coast) and traveled the country to ride. I think a large factor is land manager (federal vs. state vs local vs non-profit vs private). And the history of the area (do you get shot for trespassing or are shared paths a norm). And many other factors.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

There are a number of unsanctioned trails in my area. Some are just bits here and there and others are miles long. I ride (and help maintain) sanctioned trails and ride some of the unsanctioned ones occasionally.


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## Losvar (Mar 21, 2016)

We have no bike trails in my area, only trails that are multi use.
Not a single built trail here either, they are all the result of a lot of hiking, biking, ATVs, motorcycles and horses. 

There might be one at some point though...


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## mattyice (Dec 31, 2015)

The first rule of Fight Club, er Grey trails.....

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Our local county park was opened in the 1950's and horse riders and hikers used old farm & logging roads in the woods. Somewhere in the early 90's some local mountain bikers began to expand the network with additional singletrack. Over the years this effort has been passed on from one generation to the next. As one group fades out another takes it's place. The county is aware of us but mostly has a hands off approach as long as we don't get too crazy and has even given some of us keys to the gates for better access for building and maintenance. For the most part we co-exist peacefully with the hikers & horses, and have a facebook page where all of the user groups can keep up on events on the trails.


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## indytrekracer (Feb 13, 2004)

There is some responsibility of the government managed land managers to the types of recreation the local citizens want. If land managers don't work with a group and provide them with the ability to be successful working within the system then they will encourage folks to work out side the system. In my area we have enough support from land managers (some more than others), but our trail builders have a back log of legit trails to build. So we have very little illegal trail building. Most riders is our area view illegal trail building as a threat to legit success we have going.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

DeftJester said:


> It's interesting to see the self regulating systems or unspoken social contracts and etiquette that develops from region to region. Some trails are understood to be multi-use with no signs or markings, some are just for hikers that cyclist poach anyway, some for just cyclists that hikers hike anyway, some for downhill, some that you would think should only be downhill but are uphill too and so on.
> 
> So after living in NY, LA and NJ (and road trips to other communities and trail systems) I am curious to take a poll from all our builders on here to see how many of your local trails are illegal, if you ride and enjoy them yourself and what type of unspoken code of conduct is in your area?





swampboy62 said:


> Here in NE Ohio there aren't any real unsanctioned trails that I know of. Most of the 'rogue trails' are ATV trails, but there are very few illegal mtb trails of any distance that I've found out about in the last ten years.
> 
> I'm sure that this is a function of our area, which is fairly densely populated with little 'free' woodlands. Out west, or in lesser populated areas (I'm thinking WV) I'd bet the illegal trail thing is entirely different.
> 
> Steve Z


Also in NEO. I have been riding since ~1990. There has been a noticeable ebb and flow to the trail access issue.
The majority land holders are The Cleveland Metroparks and the NPS (among other county park districts).
At that time NPS seemed sorta ambivalent on trail access. The official stance was that bikes were not allowed on any unimproved (read "dirt") surfaces. If you were blatant, dangerous, rude, scaring horses, etc. you were not welcome, and could receive a citation and/or fine. But overall, people rode pretty regularly at off hours and conflicts were generally infrequent. Trail erosion was not an issue. Hikers were often friendly. Equestrian trails were not as good, and conflicts were much more likely - except at night! 
It got worse for awhile and lots of citations were issued.
Then they built us a huge, brand new MTB trail. YaHoooo!

CMP was anti-MTB. It was citable and fineable, but in some places the 2 parks overlap. IMO, those trails ARE awesome! It took me many years to get out of the habit of riding them, and I was fully willing to risk a $120 citation to get my kicks for quite a few years. In an effort to change my behavior I joined the Cleveland Area Mountain Bike Association (CAMBA). It took 10 years of advocacy efforts, and a complete change of management at CMP, but they finally got it done - and had plenty of legal trails to recommend, albeit more than 90 minutes away, that kept me out of trouble throughout the process.

Anymore, there are many more MTB venues in all of the park systems - designated as shared. But the trail community in general has become much more aware that they are on a designated MTB trail. They are more situationally aware, and avoid obstructing the trail even when they have the right-of-way.
The "need" to poach trails has largely been eliminated by all the new access, but I still see a tire track from time to time where they don't belong. It is usually determined that the rider is a newb or a child that doesn't really know any better. There are very few egregious poachers. The bigger issue now is staying off the designated MTB trails when it's muddy or unfrozen. It seems to be more of an educational process than an enforcement issue.

btw - those old trails are still there and they still look the same and I'd still love to ride them because no one builds trails anything like them anymore, but I am doing my best to stay on the straight and narrow. It IS hard, though.

-F



mattyice said:


> The first rule of Fight Club, er Grey trails.....
> 
> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk


...don't talk about fight club.


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## Acme54321 (Oct 8, 2003)

A lot of great trails started off as illegal/unsanctioned. Personally, if it's not posted, I'll ride it.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I only ride trails open to mt biking. MA rider here, so much, so good open to bikes there is no reason to do otherwise.


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