# 26ers dead?



## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

With all the buzz going around about the 29ers being the best thing to happen since sliced bread are the 26er singlespeed days numbered till all are converted? or am I just paranoid with all the recent marketing hype?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

you're just being silly.....


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## unit (Nov 24, 2005)

*I ride 29 exclusively.*

But only because it is the only bike I have that is trail worthy.

26ers are not dead, nor will they likely ever die.

29ers certainly have their place and everyone should give it a shot (i.e. find someone that has a decent one and take it out for a lap at your local trail). Just like everything else that comes up (try it and see for your self)

Canti-brakes didnt totally die when V-brakes came out (CX guys still swear by canti's) and V-brakes did not die with discs. I suspect there is room in this sport for many variations on the theme.

Dont run out and donate your 26er to charity yet! OTOH, if you are interrested, ask around, there is usually someone nearby willing to let you try the bigger wheels...I think you will agree there *are *advantages...*and *disadvantages.

Paranoid? I dont think you will ever have trouble finding parts for your 26er.


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## 1speed (Mar 23, 2004)

*never*

26 in bikes will never die off or at least I will never stop riding mine. I am still not sold on 29ers although I know they have their advantages.

The perception I have from riding with 29ers is they do not seem to move as gracefully through the technical sections as 26in bikes. I'm not saying they are the betamax of bikes but 29ers would already make up a larger chunk of the cycling world if they were going to take over the world of 26in wheels. I am in the market for a new 26in highend steel singlespeed frame, at this point I am not even considering a 29er.

Obviously that is my opinion so there is no need to defend your 29ers, I am sure they are all sweet rides.


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

I think that the main reason we are seeing a huge jump in the numbers of 29ers available, is pretty much a lets jump on the bandwagon move by manufacturers fearing that they are missing out on the action. This is only natural, it happened with FS, disc brakes etc etc and there's nothing wrong with that in my book, I think it's great that more companies are getting involved, Cannondale, Trek, Intense, Turner etc etc. More options is only a very good thing in my book.

There's no arguing 29ers are great bikes but so are 26ers and there are still more 26ers on the market than 29ers and I can't see that changing any time soon, as on a worldwide scheme of things, 29ers have only just broke the surface. I'm trying to find a shop with 29 demo bikes a reasonable distance from me in the UK, it's a nightmare, no-one seems to stock them!


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## Joe Sausagehead (Feb 27, 2006)

The 26er won't die as long as there are people who think 29ers, especially those of smaller frame size, look funny.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Someone incorrectly used the 26" standard invented for kid's-fool-around bikes for adult XC riding. It's going to take 4 decades, but then 26" will be what is was, for kids. And for riding like BMX and dirtjump, where it just works out better to habe small diameter wheels to roll over the and through the dirts.

At least in the SS world (always a couple years ahead of it's time) it seems 26" bikes are rarely added to company line-ups. Trusty SSupplier Redline has 2 models of each, but the 26" are in stock, the 29" always sold out... 

Many 26" holdouts have esthetic (sp?) reason to love the smaller wheels. Graceful in singletrack, not hit by the ugly stick, etc. For me, riding is about product performance and enjoyment. speed, control, grip, comfort. I am beating my singletrack rider idols while riding larger wheels, where on the same size they'd always drop me. I'm having fun, and winnign national SS titles doing so 

I think the total volume of SS XC bikes around the word have enjoyed a huge boost the past year or two, to be thanked a lot to Fisher, Surly, Redline, etc, simply offering them.
Last year Fisher announced a steel 26" SS, but it's only offered for the 2007 season, as a 29"er.
SS'ers were "weird" to try by buying one before, adding the 29" factor dragged thousands of gearheads over the line, including your's truly.
After a couple proper rides, and perhaps buying a beater 29" SS or getting a cheap complete one, I bet the vast majority of adult MTB'rs will indicate their next bike will also have the big wheels. Sure not for each type of rider or each personality, but why, should both have been launched in the late 70's as "mountainbikes", would the 29"er have come out as the niche, not the 26"er?


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

*Yep, deceased..*



crux said:


> With all the buzz going around about the 29ers being the best thing to happen since sliced bread are the 26er singlespeed days numbered till all are converted? or am I just paranoid with all the recent marketing hype?


 26'ers are absolutely 100% stone dead ... history, old news, gone and forgotten ....stick a fork in 'em.

R.


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## unschlerin (May 4, 2006)

*26-29-26*

A bud of mine went to 29er (geared) when they started to get hot (couple of years ago), then came back to 26. He occasionally wins expert 40+ races in the SouthEast, has been racing literally for decades, and has been a professional bike mechanic ever since i knew the guy (6years). Oh, and he is about 6' tall (many say the 29er is better for taller folks). I got the impression from him that the 29er is not the ideal race bike for climbing and tight/twisty singletrack (most of SE). For that reason alone, i don't think 26 is on the way out. Just to be sure, however, i intend to borrow one and do a few laps.


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## Vecsus (Apr 17, 2004)

Cloxxki said:


> At least in the SS world (always a couple years ahead of it's time)


You sure about that? Rigid forks and one gear existed LONG before suspension and shifters. It might have come full circle for some people but a rigid SS is much more retro than progressive.


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## Fast Eddy (Dec 30, 2003)

*No noodly f'd up wheels for me.*

Good enough for the road is not good enough for rocky downhill.

Phil Wood steel SS. Waterfall, South Mtn, Phoenix, AZSF '06


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## rocpyro (Feb 7, 2005)

Fast Eddy said:


> Good enough for the road is not good enough for rocky downhill.
> 
> Phil Wood steel SS. Waterfall, South Mtn, Phoenix, AZSF '06


This was exactly the point I was going to make. They might be awsome for singletrack and the like, but come on......heavier and weaker? you gotta be kidding me.


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## collideous (Jul 1, 2006)

My 26ers haven't died yet, but gears died 7 years ago. I don't think 29" wheels are for everyone. Who knows, maybe the industry might adopt some in between size in the future.


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## Lutarious (Feb 8, 2005)

*Mine died*

I just checked in my garage, and lo and behold, all my 26 inch bikes were dead! Yup, wheels up dead as a doornail. All the color faded out of the paint like when you catch a bonita and leave it in the sun. Poor fellas, Guess I gotta go bury em.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

crux said:


> With all the buzz going around about the 29ers being the best thing to happen since sliced bread are the 26er singlespeed days numbered till all are converted? or am I just paranoid with all the recent marketing hype?


Nope, just something the "gotta have something different" people are doing now, once it's burned out they'll move onto something else. The ONLY place I'd even consider a 29'er is for a SS or for larger riders, otherwise "heavier and weaker wheels" are not good . Don't even start to listen to Cloxxki's rhetoric, the guy is so out in left field on this 29'er thing he's literally become irrational. I swear he's trying to buck for a place in the MTB hall of fame on the false assumption that 29'ers become the standard and he's viewed as some kind of pioneer.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Rivet, you clearly have no idea where I'm coming from or where I intend to be going. I strongly suggest you reconsider your wording.

Left field I am though. Beats right wing. But rather than believing blindly in something I've decided (or was up) to, I go for personal experience, acceptance rates by other riders, mixed in with a bit of armchair and real-life science. 
There's more valid arguments to say 29"ers are better for general riding than the other way around. Facts especially. A religic person only needs a book and someone to read from it, to believe and not let anything change that, experience or ratio.

If you have flexy wheels, blaim your wheelbuilder, not the inch size of your wheels. Add some spokes and pick your hubs wiser.

When it comes to riding enjoyment, we all love something else of course. I like knife-edge hard riding through twisty singletrack, taking fluently sweeping lines. I found out about that only when I tried 29". I bought one because 26" is not an adult size, and I'm tall. Now I know 29" is just the lower edge of what works for me, rather than the largest man can handle. For my riding that is. For me, 29"allows me to drop 26" riders on tight singletrack, for others it may mean being dropped by grandmothers on 26" transport bikes. Some will get bored by the stable handling, for me it's a reason to take more risk still.
I enjoyed my first-ever controlled 2-wheel power drift on a bicycle yesterday. sweeping sandy singletrack, it was fun. 29" bike with low tread tires, fast and exciting!

Sure 26" is not dead. It won't be until the market leaders find themselves with warehouses piled with 26" bikes no-one wants to buy, which is not the case for long. But to make an X run of new model bikes that HAVE to sell, 29" seems like the best bet, they just sell.

I meant to say that singlespeeders are early adopters. Don't wait till all the magazines give their thumbs up. Like Avod mechanical disc brakes. Raved on the MTBR SS forum since before I went SS'ing, and now a popular OEM choice for budget high-end bikes, appreciated by thousands. If something works for the bike-ripe crows of singlespeeders, likely it's not going the way of biopace any time soon, or at least it has lots of merit. Only bike company marketing can ruin a good concept that people actually like.

Weak wheels acceptable for singlespeed? Don't quit you day job to open a SS webstore ;-)


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## Joe Sausagehead (Feb 27, 2006)

*welcome to my soapbox*

The whole idea that one "innovation" means the death of those that preceded it is nonsense. Why is 29 vs 26 an either/or proposition? Threadless stems didn't make quills obsolete. Disc brakes haven't "killed" V-brakes or calipers. 28-bladed-spoked wheels haven't eradicated 32-DT-spoked wheels. So why must the proponents of 29ers consistently assert that the new wheel size will _replace_ the old? Why do we have to choose only one?

I think there's truth in what Rivet says about trend-setters: once the fashion becomes mainstream, "they'll move onto something else." As in religion, the game seems to be about whoever can shout the praises loudest, embrace the benefits the fullest, and disparage the nonbelievers the most irately. And, like in religion, much of this seems to be fueled by simple ego fulfillment.

There's a 20", a 24", a 26", a 29" and a 700c in my garage, and none of them are dead.


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## RobW (Jan 18, 2004)

unit said:


> But only because it is the only bike I have that is trail worthy.
> 
> 26ers are not dead, nor will they likely ever die.
> 
> ...


Well put. Different strokes for different folks.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Rivet said:


> Nope, just something the "gotta have something different" people are doing now, once it's burned out they'll move onto something else.


You are sadly mistaken.

I had to have a 29er because I knew that the wheel size was BETTER. Better for any kind of XC riding, geared or single. Soon, it will be better for DH and freeriding. The bigger wheel is PERFECTLY suited for those disciplines. There is no "burnout". 29ers are BETTER in the face of ignorance and solid disdain for the change that is taking place. Not even the Intenzacruzaturnerworths, or the great Specialized diety can stop it.



> The ONLY place I'd even consider a 29'er is for a SS or for larger riders, otherwise "heavier and weaker wheels" are not good . Don't even start to listen to Cloxxki's rhetoric, the guy is so out in left field on this 29'er thing he's literally become irrational. I swear he's trying to buck for a place in the MTB hall of fame on the false assumption that 29'ers become the standard and he's viewed as some kind of pioneer.


Why would the only place you would even consider a 29er be on an SS for a "largeer" rider?

My 29er wheels are 1500grams or something... Every run of the mill 26" wheel I pick up feels like a brick in comparison. You have NO idea what you are talking about. My 29er rim is LIGHTER than most 26" rims.

I see 26" wheels destroyed often enough. My 29er wheels are not destroyed. I have never seen one destroyed to tell you the truth. MOST 26" wheeled bikes out there have wheels that are probably HALF as strong as my 29" wheels. They bend and need retruing all the time.

Weak wheels yet you suggest that the only time they should be used is for a "larger" rider. :skep: A larger rider on a SS and you suggest that he ride rims that are weaker due to their size? :skep:

Clox knows what he is talking about. He experiences it. I don't think you have ever seen a 29er considering the ignorance you are spewing.

29" wheels are BETTER than 26" wheels. BETTER. Many are STRONGER in percentage to their size than 26" wheels. They are NOT heavier than most 26" set-ups out there. Even the stock 29" Alex on the Redline is about the same weight as a 26" WTB Speed Disc, and depending on tires the 26" setup could be much heavier than the 29" setup.

Go ride your little kids bike hero. That is all you have. A little kids bike.

Athletes ride 29ers. Kids playing ride 26ers.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Fast Eddy said:


> Good enough for the road is not good enough for rocky downhill.
> 
> Phil Wood steel SS. Waterfall, South Mtn, Phoenix, AZSF '06


Nice line down the Waterfall. A 29" wheel could handle that trail very well though, if you were implying it'd fold or something. I've seen other pics of your good tech skills, so I know you'd be able to navigate such demanding trails with either size wheel.

29" wheels aren't nearly as flexible and flimsy as people fear. The last pic is of a 4' (or more) drop to flat off of the "Diving Board" that resulted in no wheel collapse, hardtail and all.

And 26" wheels are not dead.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

I enjoy the small % of 29" riders who are, for whatever reason, so insecure that they need to refer to 26" bikes as "kids" bikes and 29ers as "adult" bikes as if this is some sort of insult. Although I do understand where this reference comes from it makes you, the "adult" bike rider look like a child, slinging insults. I personally enjoy launching my bike at will. The admitedly few times I've been on a 29er the "at will" part of launching was lacking. You like carving, I like launching. Who gives a sh!t, go ride. I will add that the thought of the 26er going away in our life time is laughable. Perhaps as the bike nerds that we are we have the disposable income to completely swap out a quiver of bikes, if indeed it were warrented. I don't see the general bike riding public giving a rats a55 personally, nor do I see bike companies completely ignoring that portion of the bike buying public.


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

*Ditto*



jugdish said:


> I enjoy the small % of 29" riders who are, for whatever reason, so insecure that they need to refer to 26" bikes as "kids" bikes and 29ers as "adult" bikes as if this is some sort of insult. Although I do understand where this reference comes from it makes you, the "adult" bike rider look like a child, slinging insults. I personally enjoy launching my bike at will. The admitedly few times I've been on a 29er the "at will" part of launching was lacking. You like carving, I like launching. Who gives a sh!t, go ride. I will add that the thought of the 26er going away in our life time is laughable. Perhaps as the bike nerds that we are we have the disposable income to completely swap out a quiver of bikes, if indeed it were warrented. I don't see the general bike riding public giving a rats a55 personally, nor do I see bike companies completely ignoring that portion of the bike buying public.


Sometimes I think I'd rather have Mormon's knocking on my door than see somebody on the trail with a 29er because they are so preachy and feel the need to talk down about whatever I'm riding. If anything that would push me away from the "movement" more than draw me to it.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

jugdish said:


> I enjoy the small % of 29" riders who are, for whatever reason, so insecure that they need to refer to 26" bikes as "kids" bikes and 29ers as "adult" bikes as if this is some sort of insult.


It is not an insult, it is a SLAP to our brothers that are still lost in 26" kids bike world. Barry Bonds swings a heavy bat because he is powerful. Are you powerful, or do you swing a little league bat?



> Although I do understand where this reference comes from it makes you, the "adult" bike rider look like a child, slinging insults.[/QUOITE]
> 
> The only insult is the one taken as an insult. Some could construe a wake up call as an insult, I agree. Sometimes sharp offense can shock a person out of bad habits.
> 
> ...


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

RockyRider said:


> Sometimes I think I'd rather have Mormon's knocking on my door than see somebody on the trail with a 29er because they are so preachy and feel the need to talk down about whatever I'm riding. If anything that would push me away from the "movement" more than draw me to it.


Stop riding a bike with wheels made for a kid! That is all they want. They want to HELP you!

:thumbsup:


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Why can't we all just get along now?

Accept that people ride different bikes for different reasons, I ride a 26er because that's all I've ever known, only now am I considering buying something with at least 1 29" wheel and only because I haven't been able to get a test ride on one anywhere, so I have got to shell out the coin in order to do so. 

Obviously I hope they are as good as everyone says, I hope because I am a big guy it will suit and fit me, I hope it grips, corners and rolls as well as people say, but I also hope that the weight difference doesn't effect me, that the handling is spot on and that I can "launch" the bike as effortlessly as I can my Implant which is the best and most enjoyable bike I've ever ridden.

The question in the title of this thread is "26ers dead?" the answer to this question is of course NO they are not, they just have a little more competition now and as I've said before variety is a good thing, in fact it's the spice of life. Whatever you ride you will love it, I love my bike and can't imagine anything being better for me, I'm sure most of you are the same or at least very similar, so just enjoy it!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RockyRider said:


> Sometimes I think I'd rather have Mormon's knocking on my door than see somebody on the trail with a 29er because they are so preachy and feel the need to talk down about whatever I'm riding. If anything that would push me away from the "movement" more than draw me to it.


Out of curiosity, have you ever encountered a "preachy" rider on the trail, or just online? I think this whole debate exists mostly in cyberspace.

And Mormons are no more screwed up than any other religious person.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

I can almost sense how much better those posts make you feel.


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## unit (Nov 24, 2005)

*Amen Brother!!!!*



Joe Sausagehead said:


> The whole idea that one "innovation" means the death of those that preceded it is nonsense. Why is 29 vs 26 an either/or proposition? Threadless stems didn't make quills obsolete. Disc brakes haven't "killed" V-brakes or calipers. 28-bladed-spoked wheels haven't eradicated 32-DT-spoked wheels. So why must the proponents of 29ers consistently assert that the new wheel size will _replace_ the old? Why do we have to choose only one?
> 
> I think there's truth in what Rivet says about trend-setters: once the fashion becomes mainstream, "they'll move onto something else." As in religion, the game seems to be about whoever can shout the praises loudest, embrace the benefits the fullest, and disparage the nonbelievers the most irately. And, like in religion, much of this seems to be fueled by simple ego fulfillment.
> 
> There's a 20", a 24", a 26", a 29" and a 700c in my garage, and none of them are dead.


I have enjoyed my 29er a bunch, and when someone asks me about it, I get looks of surprise at my response. It seems that most people are aware of what a 29er is, and many of the people that ask me about mine have already experienced more than one all-out attack on their non-29er bike by some jackass they have encountered.

Some guys and gals will try the 29er concept and love it, some won't....enough said.

For gods sake fellow 29ers....put the cool-aid down!


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## Vecsus (Apr 17, 2004)

I love every 26er I have owned. The primary reason I am "upgrading" to 29er is because I was in the market for a new bike anyway. Since I am 6'2" it makes sense that I would go with a 29er. Additionally, I'll be giving the full rigid SS thing a try at the same time. The new bike will arive mid-winter so next season will start with a ride that is about as opposite as I can get from my current build (26er FS all-mountain bike). 

26ers are as dead as anything else that isn't the hottest new fad on the block. FS did not kill hardtails. Gears did not kill SS the first time gears were added. SS did not kill gears when the SS fad kicked in. Disc brakes did not kill rim brakes. 

For every active poster on this forum there are hundreds of non-posters that are following their own path. The people that are active on this board represent the bleeding edge of the mountain bike community. As such, opinions will be rather polarized into one of the many sub-sects of cycling. But the great masses, washed or unwashed, will continue to buy gear 26ers at the sub-1K pricepoint. We're fanatics on this board...our opinions will be equally fanatical and often irrational - such as pondering the death of any particular style of bike or parts technology.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Vecsus said:


> I love every 26er I have owned. The primary reason I am "upgrading" to 29er is because I was in the market for a new bike anyway. Since I am 6'2" it makes sense that I would go with a 29er. Additionally, I'll be giving the full rigid SS thing a try at the same time. The new bike will arive mid-winter so next season will start with a ride that is about as opposite as I can get from my current build (26er FS all-mountain bike).
> 
> 26ers are as dead as anything else that isn't the hottest new fad on the block. FS did not kill hardtails. Gears did not kill SS the first time gears were added. SS did not kill gears when the SS fad kicked in. Disc brakes did not kill rim brakes.
> 
> For every active poster on this forum there are hundreds of non-posters that are following their own path. The people that are active on this board represent the bleeding edge of the mountain bike community. As such, opinions will be rather polarized into one of the many sub-sects of cycling. But the great masses, washed or unwashed, will continue to buy gear 26ers at the sub-1K pricepoint. We're fanatics on this board...our opinions will be equally fanatical and often irrational - such as pondering the death of any particular style of bike or parts technology.


Not to mention that all us snobs in the 29er fruit basket all rode 26" wheeled bikes for years more than likely. I know I did... and.. ahhh...still do from time to time.

We weren't crying about it then.


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## fw190 (Oct 27, 2005)

Nat said:


> And Mormons are no more screwed up than any other religious person.


But those religious persons--beware!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

fw190 said:


> But those religious persons--beware!


Beware of Mormons or of me?


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## Overkill (Mar 28, 2004)

I believe the original tread was started specifically addressing 29ers for SS use. I'm in the process of building a custom steel SS (on walt's waiting list) and am torn between the 26 and 29 format. People seem to have the opinion that 29 wheels are an even greater advantage for SS than geared bikes. Is this true? 

I've searched extensively for comparisons only relating to SS use, but haven't seen too much. Is there any advantages using 29 wheels that are unique to SS use? I've heard comments about the ability of carrying more momentum for SS, but what about some of drawbacks relating to accelerating? Also, due the big wheels rolling over stuff easier, does this make 100mm forks (or any suspension fork for that matter) dead for SS use?


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## fw190 (Oct 27, 2005)

> Beware of Mormons or of me?


Well, them and the other religious persons they are no more screwed up than.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

29Colossus said:


> You are sadly mistaken...[tirade]...I had to have a 29er because I knew that the wheel size was BETTER.
> Athletes ride 29ers. Kids playing ride 26ers.


Hooo wheeeee! So it's your turn up on point this morning, hey?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Overkill said:


> I believe the original tread was started specifically addressing 29ers for SS use. I'm in the process of building a custom steel SS (on walt's waiting list) and am torn between the 26 and 29 format. People seem to have the opinion that 29 wheels are an even greater advantage for SS than geared bikes. Is this true?
> 
> I've searched extensively for comparisons only relating to SS use, but haven't seen too much. Is there any advantages using 29 wheels that are unique to SS use? I've heard comments about the ability of carrying more momentum for SS, but what about some of drawbacks relating to accelerating? Also, due the big wheels rolling over stuff easier, does this make 100mm forks (or any suspension fork for that matter) dead for SS use?


For going fast and smooth I'd pick 29.
For slow-speed techie (think trials) I'd pick 26.
I like having my suspension fork.


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## BigRingBash (Jun 15, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHA. This post should be in the 1 on 1 section haha. I used to go by the name JC2niner on here. I now go by bigringbash because well it is a club we have here and because I now ride a 26" wheeled singlespeed. I still own a 29'er but my rigid Surly 1x1 is so much fun I have been riding it the most lately. Here in the foothills of NC the singlestrack is tight, twisty and it is hard to keep momentum due to all the switchbacks etc. Certain trails the 29'er is definately more fun and much faster, but on my 2 local trails the 26" bike is a bit better due to the North Shore type stunts we have built and the lack of nice run ups to the climbs the 26" bike does get up to speed a bit faster. We didn't get much land from the county to work with in the first place so the trail is tight and is what it is. What I am basically saying is that 29'er rock, 26'ers rock. They all have a place, they all have a time. Ride your bikes more and argue about which is better less. My results are from real world expierence and from riding almost everyday. Neither bike is better given different conditions. 29'ers are not weak when jumping, and 26'er are not slower when the trail is tight. 

Hey Nat, I am still riding SS. You have converted me for life no matter what my wheel size haha. Also I dang like your pics!! JC


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BigRingBash said:


> Hey Nat, I am still riding SS. You have converted me for life no matter what my wheel size haha. Also I dang like your pics!! JC


I was wondering where you went.


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## sac02 (Sep 21, 2005)

First off, let me say that I don't have a dog in the 26 v 29 fight. I say let someone ride whatever makes them happy.

But 29Colossus,

That is just some ignorant, inflamatory sh!t you are preaching. To tell someone else that their *choice* to ride 26 or 29 is wrong because of what you believe is closed minded and juvenile.

Perhaps you are being sarcastic and I didn't realize it here in cyberspace. But if you aren't, I hope you are a big guy, because one day someone is truly going to take offense to you constantly berating them for their choice of bike.

BTW, if someone mentions that 26" wheels are lighter or stronger, I wouldn't lean to heavily on the argument you used earlier:


> My 29er wheels are 1500grams or something... Every run of the mill 26" wheel I pick up feels like a brick in comparison. You have NO idea what you are talking about. My 29er rim is LIGHTER than most 26" rims.


That is a completely invalid argument. You are comparing apples to oranges. Your 29" wheel is not built the same as "most" 26" wheels. If a 29" wheel and 26" wheel are built identically (other than size), the 26" wheel *WILL*:


be Lighter
be Stiffer
be Stronger (no, siffness and strength are not the same thing)
have a lower rotational inertia (will accelerate (spin up)) faster)

Sorry, but the above facts are Mr. Newton at work. No way around that. Unless the laws of physics don't apply to you...

I am educated as a mechanical engineer (currently pursuing my master's) and have industry experience with turbomachinery (where rotating parts are very important). So if you'd like to try and argue those points, feel free.

Mac


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## CB2 (May 7, 2006)

Out of curiosity, are 29'ers more of a regional thing? I ask because here in the Northeast I've never actually seen one.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

My humble opinion- I don't think 29er will ever be what 26ers are- the primary size of bikes that sell to a large audience. They will have a great niche but will not become the mainstream. There are many advantages of 26ers on different types of trails. I ride two FS 26ers and am planning on building up a custom 29er steel HT soon. Right now, they are maybe like Brooks seats- a great product and a loyal following for good reason- BUT they are not for everyone and everyone who rides one does not come away impressed enough to give up a 26er. However, the ones that do come away impressed enough, will only ride a 29er, thus hopefully creating enough $$ to keep the 29er market going.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

sac02 said:


> First off, let me say that I don't have a dog in the 26 v 29 fight. I say let someone ride whatever makes them happy.


Have you EVER ridden a 29er?



> But 29Colossus,
> 
> That is just some ignorant, inflamatory sh!t you are preaching. To tell someone else that their *choice* to ride 26 or 29 is wrong because of what you believe is closed minded and juvenile.


Call the whambulance!

Let me do this again:

29" wheels are BETTER than 26" wheels for mountainbiking. 26" wheels are more suited to a child.

In my opinion, it is WRONG in almost all cases for an adult to be riding a 26" wheeled bikes where a 29" bike is available.

I own 26" wheeled bikes, and 29" bikes, and also a 96er. I have ridden mountain bikes for decades on Colorado singletrack. If I want to say that the smaller wheel is sick and wrong, I will.



> Perhaps you are being sarcastic and I didn't realize it here in cyberspace. But if you aren't, I hope you are a big guy, because one day someone is truly going to take offense to you constantly berating them for their choice of bike.


Does it really matter? It is a wheel on a bike man. Settle down. 

And by the way, I am not concerned about you or anyone else taking offense in what I have to say about this wheel size or that wheel size on a bicycle. If you get offended and want to try and kick my ass over my opinion of your childsized wheel, then come on up and give it a go chief. 



> BTW, if someone mentions that 26" wheels are lighter or stronger, I wouldn't lean to heavily on the argument you used earlier:


What? Are YOUR kids sized wheels lighter than my American Classics? I would doubt it.



> That is a completely invalid argument. You are comparing apples to oranges. Your 29" wheel is not built the same as "most" 26" wheels. If a 29" wheel and 26" wheel are built identically (other than size), the 26" wheel *WILL*:


That is ridiculous. If a 29" wheel is not built the same as "most" 26" wheels, then why would I want to compare one that is made the same?

How about this for simplicity sake.

My 29" wheels are STRONGER AND LIGHER than your 26" wheels.

Put that in your Easy-Cheese can and squirt it.



> Sorry, but the above facts are Mr. Newton at work. No way around that. Unless the laws of physics don't apply to you...


Have you ever ridden a 29er?



> I am educated as a mechanical engineer (currently pursuing my master's) and have industry experience with turbomachinery (where rotating parts are very important). So if you'd like to try and argue those points, feel free.


I don't care if you are Cucky Cheese, have you ever ridden a 29er?

Wash, rinse, repeat.

It is just a few inches on a wheel dude... have fun with it. Lose the pocket protector!!!


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Flyer said:


> There are many advantages of 26ers on different types of trails.


There are few advantages with 26" wheels on any type of trail.


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## BikeMojo (Jan 6, 2005)

Just J said:


> Why can't we all just get along now?


Because someone HAS to be wrong. This wouldn't be a good internet arguement without someone being wrong.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

BikeMojo said:


> Because someone HAS to be wrong. This wouldn't be a good internet arguement without someone being wrong.


No kidding!

26" wheels are dead man... except for little kids.


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

LOL ok then, I'm about to go put coins over my bikes' lights and bury it...


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## Vecsus (Apr 17, 2004)

29Colossus would make a great religious zealot - dogma, rhetoric, and bullsh!t all in one easy-to-scroll-past package. 

Not everyone is looking to squeeze that extra 2% perfomance benefit out of their gear. It's also a fallacy to refer to 26ers as "kids" bikes. A 13 year old boy that weighs 120-lbs is a kid but what about the 27 year-old woman at the same weight? According to your reasoning the boy is fine with a 26er but the girl belongs on a 29er. There is a hard-and-fast dividing line between child and adult when it comes renting porn but not to bike selection.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Vecsus said:


> 29Colossus would make a great religious zealot - dogma, rhetoric, and bullsh!t all in one easy-to-scroll-past package.
> 
> Not everyone is looking to squeeze that extra 2% perfomance benefit out of their gear. It's also a fallacy to refer to 26ers as "kids" bikes. A 13 year old boy that weighs 120-lbs is a kid but what about the 27 year-old woman at the same weight? According to your reasoning the boy is fine with a 26er but the girl belongs on a 29er. There is a hard-and-fast dividing line between child and adult when it comes renting porn but not to bike selection.


_Woe to you oh Earth and Sea, for the devil sends the beast with wrath because he knows the time is short! Let him who hath...._

Fallacy or not, it is how the 26" wheel is going to have to be marketed in the future.

_ The 26" wheel is great for the self-starter or the young adult looking to have some big time fun while maintaining the extra balance and confidence building features that will take them to the next level!_

So you are right.... it is a fallacy... sort of.

:thumbsup:


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> It is not an insult, it is a SLAP to our brothers that are still lost in 26" kids bike world. Barry Bonds swings a heavy bat because he is powerful. Are you powerful, or do you swing a little league bat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Everyone I've ever met that talked as much sh*t as you about bikes ALWAYS sucked when it came to actually riding them. I know in your case it's much of the same.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Whew- after all this, I had to go look as well. My 26ers are sleeping. For a second, I thought they were dead but I was mistaken. As I said earlier, I'm considering a 29er and it'll be built primarily for the smoother and faster trails with some semi-slicks on it. I'm sure I'll ride it on other trails as well. 

I don't buy the Koolaid-driven zeal and I am aware of the advantages (and the disadvantages) of each wheel at a given trail. I like the way 29ers feel when they are rolling fast but I prefer the 26ers for accelerating and negotiating tighter turn and slow/rocky sections. In Colorado, where trails are more open and faster, the 29er can be fun indeed on a lot of trails but I would never give up my FS 26er.

Kid's size wheels? Sure, and the 29er will become a kid's size wheel when a 31er comes out 
Ride what you like and preach the benefits but being a nutjob about it will only serve to push people away. All it takes is a few dozen overzealous 29er owners to make the rest seem like the Hare Krishnas of the mtn biking world.


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## MudInMyEars (Apr 4, 2005)

jugdish said:


> I can almost sense how much better those posts make you feel.


The Force is strong with this one.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Flyer said:


> All it takes is a few dozen overzealous 29er owners to make the rest seem like the Hare Krishnas of the mtn biking world.


A few dozen overly-enthused 29er owners on this board might repel a few dozen people in Le 29er Resistance on this board, but out on the trails probably no one will know or care either way. I've always wondered what percentage of the actual mountain biking community regularly patrol MTBR. 10%? 1%? Less than 1%??? There are thousands of mountain bikers in my city, and I see people out on the trails in full force every week, but I can't even name ten who post here.

So let's continue to squawk and c0ckfight as much as we want, because it's entertaining (admit it, all of you) and almost no one outside of our little community will ever know.


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

... Wow, actually I think my 26er is coming to... Yep... Hold on... it's blinking... the vital signs are back...

Long live the 26er in perfect harmony with the 29erererer! 

Man I want a 69er!


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Just J said:


> ... Wow, actually I think my 26er is coming to... Yep... Hold on... it's blinking... the vital signs are back...
> 
> Long live the 26er in perfect harmony with the 29erererer!
> 
> Man I want a 69er!


Witch! Witch! Kill it! Burn it! Kill it!

:devil: :aureola:


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

You gonna keep pushing the fu'ed up wheels thing? Keep swatting that hornets nest....

You _still_ serious about this? I'd ride that on my rigid niner ss with no problems....no wheel issues since I started riding 29"ers over 6 years ago.

2m (back to the 29"er board now)


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*29er v. 26er*

I did not wish to post in regard to this crap argument

But Cloxxi if you are gonna post "Someone incorrectly used the 26" standard invented for kid's-fool-around bikes for adult XC riding. It's going to take 4 decades, but then 26" will be what is was, for kids. And for riding like BMX and dirtjump, where it just works out better to habe small diameter wheels to roll over the and through the dirts." at least quote the source from who originally thought this idea - and that's Matt Chester who was stating this 4 years ago and he probably stole it from Don McLung. Matt is a big 29er fan. But he rides mainly offroad Brevets. Bottom line both wheel sizes have thier place. Although I have ridden 29er I not gonna make the jump because I am lazy and it is not worth it to jump to all new equipment. There! both the cat and the mouse are out of the bag and 'nuff said.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

victorthewombat said:


> I did not wish to post in regard to this crap argument
> 
> But Cloxxi if you are gonna post "Someone incorrectly used the 26" standard invented for kid's-fool-around bikes for adult XC riding. It's going to take 4 decades, but then 26" will be what is was, for kids. And for riding like BMX and dirtjump, where it just works out better to habe small diameter wheels to roll over the and through the dirts." at least quote the source from who originally thought this idea - and that's Matt Chester who was stating this 4 years ago and he probably stole it from Don McLung. Matt is a big 29er fan. But he rides mainly offroad Brevets. Bottom line both wheel sizes have thier place. Although I have ridden 29er I not gonna make the jump because I am lazy and it is not worth it to jump to all new equipment. There! both the cat and the mouse are out of the bag and 'nuff said.


Whaaaa? :skep:

Must be insider talk....

The cat and the mouse?


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## BontyRider (Feb 18, 2004)

Get with it! 29ers are so passe. Everyone should ride 34's like me. They're so big that the wheels actually overlap, so I can only make right turns. It sucks cuz I keep going in circles, but I can roll over anything. :skep:


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Just for fun...

26ers are not dead, but you know 29ers are influential when you have a bunch of people saying "26ers." WTF is a "26er?" There was no such term before 29ers came about.

Hoo-wahhhh!


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

Nat said:


> Just for fun...
> 
> 26ers are not dead, but you know 29ers are influential when you have a bunch of people saying "26ers." WTF is a "26er?" There was no such term before 29ers came about.
> 
> Hoo-wahhhh!


Very true, I think the same thing everytime I type "26er" but it's so much easier than typing 26" wheeled bike!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Just J said:


> Very true, I think the same thing everytime I type "26er" but it's so much easier than typing 26" wheeled bike!


Or just "mountain bike."


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

CB2 said:


> Out of curiosity, are 29'ers more of a regional thing? I ask because here in the Northeast I've never actually seen one.


Same here in the Southeast. Actually, I've got two friends who tried them. One is a little guy who intially seemed to really dig it, very smooth he said, but later on decided that he wasn't getting the snap out of corners that he wanted in races. The other fellow is about my size, 5'11" and 170lbs or so, and loves his Surly 29er SS. In fact, I haven't seen him on anything but that this season.

I'm pretty into the bike geekery that is the regional race scene, so I find it significant that I've only really known two 29er folks among lots of people who are usually eager adopters of stuff they think will make them faster. I really think they suit trails where you may be climbing some wide-ish fire road thing for a while followed by nothing but descending. Basically the opposite of just about any eastern trail I've seen.

One more thing. I watched my friends in a couple of triathlons this summer. Some guys on their TT bikes had what were, surprise, 26 inch wheels. Apparently there is a similarly situated cult in tri world of guys who swear by the 26 inch wheels for competition because, in their mind, they require less energy to get up to speed.


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## Trifixed (Apr 29, 2006)

GrantB said:


> One more thing. I watched my friends in a couple of triathlons this summer. Some guys on their TT bikes had what were, surprise, 26 inch wheels. Apparently there is a similarly situated cult in tri world of guys who swear by the 26 inch wheels for competition because, in their mind, they require less energy to get up to speed.


The small TT wheels are 650c, which have a 571mm BSD (bead seat diameter), as opposed to 26" mtb wheels which have a BSD of 559mm. On the other hand, I rode a fixed gear mtb in the collegiate nationals triathlon in Reno. About the 650c wheels though, I think that the big argument against them is that they have more rolling resistance, which negates the slight aerodynamic and rotating weight advantages. Personally, I think it would make more sense if the 650c wheels were used for climbing races, not TTs and triathlons, but there is probably some reason that I don't know about.

That's enough of me raving about roadie stuff for now...


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

2melow said:


> I'd ride that on my rigid niner ss with no problems


I was actually thinking that a 29er would be preferable for National Trail, with its mostly smooth singletrack and stretches of rocky ledges. The bigger wheel would pick through both Upper and Lower Waterfalls with less "hang" than a standard mtb wheel. It'd float on those gravelly AZ washes nicely too.


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## BrianU (Feb 4, 2004)

*I've wondered about that as well.*



Nat said:


> A few dozen overly-enthused 29er owners on this board might repel a few dozen people in Le 29er Resistance on this board, but out on the trails probably no one will know or care either way. I've always wondered what percentage of the actual mountain biking community regularly patrol MTBR. 10%? 1%? Less than 1%??? There are thousands of mountain bikers in my city, and I see people out on the trails in full force every week, but I can't even name ten who post here.
> 
> So let's continue to squawk and c0ckfight as much as we want, because it's entertaining (admit it, all of you) and almost no one outside of our little community will ever know.


 I have been actively involved in a local club for the last 6 years. Through trail work at many different places around the state, as well as having participated in and having directed a couple races in the state series, I know more than a few riders that are way more serious and spend considerably more time on a bike than I do. And out of all those people, there are only a few that I have ever seen post here and even then it is rare. For those that are regulars on this board, it is easy to forget that we are only a very, very small part of the riders actually out there on the trails.
Even though I do not discount the advantages of 29" wheels and would like to try one on the local trails before I buy my custom blinglespeed frame one of these days, I have only seen three 29'ers total in the last couple years. Two of the riders were not fast enough to take serious when they preached, the other guy is fast, but never says much. In fact, he never says anything about what he rides. No one gives any thought about him riding a 29'er because he could go unbelievably fast on a garbage can if you put wheels and a crank on it. As fast as is he is, he is not the fastest around here. So far, 26" wheels rule the race scene. Despite all the controversy here, I have never seen anyone give a 29'er more than a passing glance. 
There is a local guy that just built up a Salsa El Mariachi and while he does not race, he rides more in one year than I do in three. He will also call a spade a spade, so I will wait and see what he thinks. Some of the people that really preach 29" wheels on MTBR talk so much smack, it is hard to believe anything they say.

Brian


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## Trifixed (Apr 29, 2006)

I suppose I should give my thoughts on 26" vs 29" as well. I ride both, although since my 29er is a rigid ss and my 26er is a hardtail gearie, I can't really objectively compare them. As much as the 29" wheels roll over stuff better and allow for slower handling, the 26" wheels feel generally more responsive, kind of like a big car vs. little car thing. I'm actually thinking about building up a ss 69er and then swapping between 26" and 29" front wheels to get a better sense of how they actually compare. I know that the geometry will change slightly and the 69er won't be exactly the same as a 29er, but I just want to see the effects of the 29" wheel up front. Honestly, I'll probably continue riding both 29" and 26" as long as I can still ride, because although 29" wheels have shown up as faster often, there is no proof that they are _always_ faster. I think we'll see at least one more new wheel size, be it larger or smaller than 29", before this is all over. Maybe a mid sized alternative, like 27.5" or so would bridge the gap between the two and allow for better geometries in smaller frames, if the supply problem could be avoided.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BrianU said:


> I have only seen three 29'ers total in the last couple years.


I can think of about a dozen 29er riders that I know here in Bend. I think we all ride with whomever, regardless of wheel size (at least that's the case with me). The topic of wheel size gets very little air time. There's always plenty of other stuff to discuss. Don't really hear any preaching.

People are more fascinated by the singlespeed thing actually, but there are dozens and dozens of those around here.


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## upsidedown (Sep 18, 2006)

ungh, 29s are weaker and everyone speends countless hours learning how to get up obsticles with them like they just learned to ride. It's going to be a slow adoption for the whole world to get on 29s but it can't ever really happen because stuff changes too much for 29 to be the end-all. Also, doesn't that guy cork his bat? I don't know how heavy it really is.


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## BigRingBash (Jun 15, 2006)

HAHAHAHA. This is great. JC


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> It is not an insult, it is a SLAP to our brothers that are still lost in 26" kids bike world. Barry Bonds swings a heavy bat because he is powerful. Are you powerful, or do you swing a little league bat?


Not to put a fly in your argument ointment, but...

Barry Bonds actually used only a 32 ounce bat to hit his 73 HR's in the 2001 season. He has used a lot of 28 - 30 ounce bats in his career and uses strictly bats made out of maple wood these days. His 32 ounce bat back in 2001 was lighter than the bats used by Maris, McGwire, Ruth, Williams, Aaron, Cobb, Hornsby, DiMaggio, Mantle and many other sluggers!

A light bat is easier to control, and, contrary to old-school thinking, you can hit a ball harder and farther with a light bat than with a heavy bat because you can swing a light bat much faster. As acceptance of this fact has grown in recent years, the overwhelming trend in both baseball and softball has been to lighter bats.

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats-new/batw8.html

I've been through a lot of testing with bats with my son who is a slugger.

BB (Father of the 2006 Home Run Derby winner at the World Series for 13 year olds.)


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> Not to put a fly in your argument ointment, but...
> 
> Barry Bonds actually used only a 32 ounce bat to hit his 73 HR's in the 2001 season. He has used a lot of 28 - 30 ounce bats in his career and uses strictly bats made out of maple wood these days. His 32 ounce bat back in 2001 was lighter than the bats used by Maris, McGwire, Ruth, Williams, Aaron, Cobb, Hornsby, DiMaggio, Mantle and many other sluggers!
> 
> ...


Barry Bonds does not swing you son's bat.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

upsidedown said:


> everyone speends countless hours learning how to get up obsticles with them like they just learned to ride.


It's not _that_ big of a change. "Countless hours" translates to more like "one or two" and once people get dialed in they seem to get up obstacles better than before.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

*Funny*

Seems as if the 29er thing is a bit preachy. All I was looking for was a few opinions and it seems as if everyone has at least one.

Funny thing is when I see a 29er frame standing alone it looks like a kids bike with the sharp angle on the top tube.

If you could only have one bike (single speed) would you build a 29er or standard mtb?


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## mrsalty (Feb 7, 2006)

*Personal preference...............*

29SS.
But I would caveat, that both bikes have positive and negative attributes.
I have ridden 26" geared bikes for MANY years.....................
and had ALOT of fun while doing that.

my .02

C.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

look down


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

A little further...


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

crux said:


> Seems as if the 29er thing is a bit preachy. All I was looking for was a few opinions and it seems as if everyone has at least one.
> 
> Funny thing is when I see a 29er frame standing alone it looks like a kids bike with the sharp angle on the top tube.
> 
> If you could only have one bike (single speed) would you build a 29er or standard mtb?


Having an opinion is preachy?

In that case, I'll testify: the one SS for me would be (is) a 29er. Hallelujah!


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## Strike the primer (Jan 27, 2006)

I cannot say because 29's are not allowed in Albert bike shops. Just monster-travel bikes.

On that note, my 26 is awesome.

Peace.


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## Aeroplane (Sep 22, 2005)

crux said:


> If you could only have one bike (single speed) would you build a 29er or standard mtb?


26, no question. Keep all your "this bike is better, etc", if you have a 26" you don't have to answer a bunch of questions about it, preach on the internet, and generally be evangelical about your wheel size. Everybody knows what a 26" bike rides like, so they leave you alone!


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

Nat said:


> Out of curiosity, have you ever encountered a "preachy" rider on the trail, or just online? I think this whole debate exists mostly in cyberspace.
> 
> And Mormons are no more screwed up than any other religious person.


Actually yes and I ride less with the person now simply because of it. I ride for enjoyment and being preached to about it prevents me from enjoying my ride. Its great to see a person enthusiastic about something but when it comes to the point of telling me I'm on something inferior it's time for me to go.

I got a laugh out of the folks in the 29er forum ripping on Tony Ellsworth last week for putting other companies down, being preachy, and his buisness practices. But many of those same people who rip on him can't see how they do the same thing to everyone else.

It's like a car going thru my neighborhood at 3 am with the stereo cranked and waking everyone up. Even if I like the music I don't like the way it's being presented to me. I feel the same way about people who tell me what I'm riding isn't what I should be riding- I know what works for me and I enjoy riding it. If somebody else doesn't like it then I suggest they have a coke and a smile and....


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> Stop riding a bike with wheels made for a kid! That is all they want. They want to HELP you!
> 
> :thumbsup:


Thank you for proving my point


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

RockyRider said:


> Actually yes and I ride less with the person now simply because of it. I ride for enjoyment and being preached to about it prevents me from enjoying my ride. Its great to see a person enthusiastic about something but when it comes to the point of telling me I'm on something inferior it's time for me to go.
> 
> I got a laugh out of the folks in the 29er forum ripping on Tony Ellsworth last week for putting other companies down, being preachy, and his buisness practices. But many of those same people who rip on him can't see how they do the same thing to everyone else.
> 
> It's like a car going thru my neighborhood at 3 am with the stereo cranked and waking everyone up. Even if I like the music I don't like the way it's being presented to me. I feel the same way about people who tell me what I'm riding isn't what I should be riding- I know what works for me and I enjoy riding it. If somebody else doesn't like it then I suggest they have a coke and a smile and....


What was that guy's name? Do you want me to have a talk with him, tell him to cool down and all?


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

After years of traditional 26" riding, most of the last two of which have been spent SS'ing, I built up a 29'er and took my first ride yesterday. Note that I went from a Kona Unit to a Kona Unit 2-9'er, so it's a pretty close comparison. Here are my initial observations:

* It rolls really well. As you get going, you can feel the momentum more so than on a 26'er. This was a key theme throughout and impacted much of what I experienced.
* I was worried that it would be harder to get the 29'er going on climbs and "dead-points" where you almost come to a stop as you power up something. Not so; it felt about the same as the 26'er.
* It climbs exceptionally. I was blown away. Maybe it's the build or whatever, but this thing is tenacious up the hills - just wants to jump. One of the things I noticed was that as I was climbing up rocky stuff, the enhanced momentum makes it easier to clean and clear things. But overall, I felt super confident climbing on it. I have not cleaned the climb up to the Taliesin Overlook on the SS the last four times due to it being so loose from the rains (including yesterday), but today, I powered right up it. Cake.
* Rocks and stuff that cause jarring thuds and kill your momentum on a 26'er are rolled right over. Again, much easier to maintain momentum.
* Cruises loose rocks (shale, baby heads) and solid rocky stuff on downhills. Like butter.
* Suspension-like feel. I stopped a couple times because I thought the rear tire was going down due to a "soft" feel, but that was not the case. I noticed much less of the jarring you usually feel on a HT on the rocky stuff and after the ride, I was noticeably less worked in the arms and overall.
* I was concerned that I'd have trouble steering down tight switchbacks, but I was fine. I cleaned all the tight switchbacks on Ringtail going down from west to east just as solidly as on the 26'er.

I live in the Phoenix, AZ area and our terrain (rocky, loose, rough) is very well-suited to 29'ers.

Net net, I much prefer the 29'er and will end up moving my geared bike over eventually (if I ever ride it again...).


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

sac02: *If a 29" wheel and 26" wheel are built identically (other than size), the 26" wheel WILL be Lighter, Stiffer, Stronger (no, siffness and strength are not the same thing) and have a lower rotational inertia (will accelerate (spin up)) faster)*

This leaves the 29er with better rolling characteristic (smooth out rough stuff) and ability to keep rotational momentum, which also make the wheel less responsive to turning. So use this wisely and choose based on what you ride and how you like to ride it.

*29Colossus* step away from your bike. It is affecting your logic and basic common sense.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*I was trying to stay out of this....................*



serious said:


> sac02: *If a 29" wheel and 26" wheel are built identically (other than size), the 26" wheel WILL be Lighter, Stiffer, Stronger (no, siffness and strength are not the same thing) and have a lower rotational inertia (will accelerate (spin up)) faster)*
> 
> This leaves the 29er with better rolling characteristic (smooth out rough stuff) and ability to keep rotational momentum, which also make the wheel less responsive to turning. So use this wisely and choose based on what you ride and how you like to ride it.
> 
> *29Colossus* step away from your bike. It is affecting your logic and basic common sense.


and do not want to get into the same old boring debate:

The simple *FACT* is that the bicycle industry builds different size wheeled bikes *BASED ON RIDER HEIGHT*. There is nothing "magical" about the 26" wheel and no reason for the bike industry to stop building bigger wheeled bikes that are beyond 26".:skep: ut:

For example. My oldest son:

Three years old was riding a 12" wheeled bike 
Five years 16"
Six 20"
Eight 24"
And now at Nine he is riding a 26" wheeled bike

Why should his dad at 6' 2" also be riding a 26" wheeled bike? Doesn't make sense.

So no the 26" wheel is not dead it has its place in the food chain :thumbsup:


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> and do not want to get into the same old boring debate:
> 
> The simple *FACT* is that the bicycle industry builds different size wheeled bikes *BASED ON RIDER HEIGHT*. There is nothing "magical" about the 26" wheel and no reason for the bike industry to stop building bigger wheeled bikes that are beyond 26".:skep: ut:
> 
> ...


So you're saying that 26'ers are kids bikes and 29'ers are for grown-ups...?

OK, I'll go with that (now that I've switched) :thumbsup:


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## Daner (Apr 30, 2004)

If there is one thing that I can't stand, it is intolerance.

SSWC06 saw the rootiest, rockiest SSWC course yet get blitzed by a tall guy on a rigid 26" MTB. The guy who was leading him on the first lap by over a minute (prior to his tensioner falling apart) was on a HT 26" with a Sid up front.

Might have had more to do with the riders than the bikes.

Both sizing standards have their adherents, but when it comes right down to it, having a variety of ways to enjoy a trail is kind of nice. When people ask me why people would use a SS when geared bikes are available, I ask them to explain why people ride unicycles.

Both are good, but for different reasons. In any case, using either is better than typing **** like this at 11:31 PM.


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## mud'n'sweat (Feb 16, 2006)

unschlerin said:


> I got the impression from him that the 29er is not the ideal race bike for climbing and tight/twisty singletrack (most of SE). For that reason alone, i don't think 26 is on the way out. Just to be sure, however, i intend to borrow one and do a few laps.


This is an argument I have used many times over myself, however I am starting to think the 29er is still a contender for my SE area trails when not racing short track. Living in western VA., the tight twisty single track tends to be found on the more city side MTB trail networks where there are no true mountains, just hilly trail networks set up in close proximity to cities for convenience (if you live in VA. think O-Hill, Walnut Creek, etc.). These are also the trail networks the short track XC races are held on. I have found lately that I am really starting to stay away from these spots unless there are time restrictions involved. I mainly am more interested in riding the national forrest these days(GWNF) where the true MTB experience lies with longer epic's traveling many of the larger peaks in the state. The single track is not quite as tight and twisty here...well, sometimes tight, but not really twisty. This is due to the fact that it is not a trail network that is trying to cram in as many miles in one small central area like a public wooded park. These rides typically consist more of long ridge rides from peak to peak. Momentum, rollability and traction are the name of the game here and it seems like this is the type of riding 29ers are well suited for. I'm going to give it another go. I'm tired of my FS and I want to try a Salsa Dos Niner to still get the feel of a hardtail out of the saddle but also have the extra cush on the rough descents. We'll see how it goes.


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## LIFECYCLE (Mar 8, 2006)

Why is it that people worry so much about what every body else thinks all the time.Just ride your bike,you do not have to justify that to anyone else.I love riding my bikes and to be honest i couldnt really care about the wheel size.Anyone who slates someone else for choosing the equipment that suits them has a serious problem and to say a certain wheel size is for kids is being a complete hypocrite.Arguing about that alone is incredibly childish.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Well&#8230;.not exactly*



waltaz said:


> So you're saying that 26'ers are kids bikes and 29'ers are for grown-ups...?
> 
> OK, I'll go with that (now that I've switched) :thumbsup:


I just find these arguments hilarious.:bluefrown:

26" wheeled zealot. "29'ers are too weak and heavy. I am 5' 11" and have a Tuner 5spot with 2.3 tires for the trails I like to ride" The fact is that in most cases a 3" or 4" travel bike with 2.1" tires would work just as well _or better _and be lighter&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;. (for this rider)

29" wheeled zealot. "All riders will greatly benefit from 29" wheels....... Whatever&#8230;&#8230;:skep:

There are some 5'4" riders on 29" bikes and 6'9" riders on 26" wheeled bikes. The only thing that matters is that they are having fun!:thumbsup:


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## freebiker (Mar 19, 2006)

Soon enough people will realize that there are more twenty niners than twenty six inch single speeds. At this point we will defalt back to twenty six inch ss because less people are doing it and we want to be unique and outnumbered. Oh and since 26er wheels are incapable in the shadow of the perfect 29er, people will gravitate back to the 26 because it is more difficult and therefore, have their shining moment as an outnumbered tough guy. 

Jk, they are both rad, ride what you have, unless its broken, or, you need to rinse the sand out of your pink thing so you can remount your trusty steed in comfort.


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## msiddens (Apr 6, 2004)

Wait haven't you heard....they are already dead!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DeeZee said:


> and 6'9" riders on 26" wheeled bikes. The only thing that matters is that they are having fun!:thumbsup:


But he switched to a 29er a few months ago...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=189868


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## serious (Jan 25, 2005)

DeeZee: *The simple FACT is that the bicycle industry builds different size wheeled bikes BASED ON RIDER HEIGHT. *

Actually they mostly build *frames* based on rider height and wheels based on where they are used. The 26 vs 29 wheel is still based on rider preference more than anything else.

And I am not sure why you thought my post came across as a "26in zealot". I was just stating facts and suggesting that people choose wheel size based on preference.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

serious said:


> And I am not sure why you thought my post came across as a "26in zealot". I was just stating facts


See how it feels?! Allahu akhbar, jihad!


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## N8! (Jan 28, 2006)

26ers aren't dead... they live on as "the wife's bikes" when I upgraded to the 29er world.


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Zealot*



serious said:


> DeeZee: *The simple FACT is that the bicycle industry builds different size wheeled bikes BASED ON RIDER HEIGHT. *
> 
> Actually they mostly build *frames* based on rider height and wheels based on where they are used. The 26 vs 29 wheel is still based on rider preference more than anything else.
> 
> And I am not sure why you thought my post came across as a "26in zealot". I was just stating facts and suggesting that people choose wheel size based on preference.


First I did not call _you _out as a zealot

_Actually they mostly build frames based on rider height and wheels based on where they are used. The 26 vs. 29 wheel is still based on rider preference more than anything else._

Are you serious? Sorry couldn't help myself

Well I guess we will agree to disagree. How do you explain 12,16,20,24,26 and 29 inch wheels? Are you saying that the bike industry can build me a frame @ 6' 2" with 12 inch wheels if that is my preference?  WOW think of the acceleration and "flickability"

Logically thinking for your basic trial riding bikes (not BMX etc&#8230 frames, cranks AND WHEELS should be properly proportioned to the riders size. Why should all riders ride 26" wheeled bikes and 175mm cranks. It just does not make any sense.

I friend of mine asked me for some help buying a bike. I recommended a 26" wheeled bike. He is 5'8". If he was over 6 feet I would have had him look at a 29" wheeled bike.

If your _preference_ is 26" wheels there must be a reason why and that is great. Roll on .....................

End rant


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

29Colossus said:


> Go ride your little kids bike hero. That is all you have. A little kids bike.
> 
> Athletes ride 29ers. Kids playing ride 26ers.


Let's see some action shots, then, "athlete". On your big-man bike.

Better yet, some race results.


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## mtbzone (Jun 29, 2005)

*shhhh......*



DeeZee said:


> Are you saying that the bike industry can build me a frame @ 6' 2" with 12 inch wheels if that is my preference?  WOW think of the acceleration and "flickability"


Here is a shot of Nat from his 'punk' years.......

Low bridge!!!! :eekster:


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*Oh Man!*



mtbzone said:


> Here is a shot of Nat from his 'punk' years.......
> 
> Low bridge!!!! :eekster:


LOL:lol:


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## zasky (Apr 23, 2006)

26 inch wheels are idiotic They're too small to get over obstacles and lose momentum so quickly that you constantly have to pedal. 

On the other hand,

29 inch wheels are idiotic. They're heavy and slow to accelerate, and forget about getting air. Any drop over three inches and you're talking major wheel taco.

No wonder I spend so much time on this board instead of riding. How am I supposed to have fun out there when my wheels keep holding me back? Screw it, I'm taking up golf. 

But the wheels on those carts are so small...


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## mrsalty (Feb 7, 2006)

N8!,
Cannot comment on the 'wife' part of this post.................as I do not have one of those.
However, I have to comment on that piece of CRAP SS you have.................embarassing.
What does that weigh???
Also, how long have you had the delgados??
Any durability issues on the SS?

C.



N8! said:


> 26ers aren't dead... they live on as "the wife's bikes" when I upgraded to the 29er world.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> Let's see some action shots, then, "athlete". On your big-man bike.
> 
> Better yet, some race results.


Don't expect an answer, he's just a "button pusher" from the F88 reject forum. Probably doesn't even own a bike.


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## mrsalty (Feb 7, 2006)

*NOW That SH!* is FUNNY*

LMAO..........



zasky said:


> 26 inch wheels are idiotic They're too small to get over obstacles and lose momentum so quickly that you constantly have to pedal.
> 
> On the other hand,
> 
> ...


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

tommyrod74 said:


> Let's see some action shots, then, "athlete". On your big-man bike.
> 
> Better yet, some race results.


Action shots? :lol: Race results? :lol:

I save those for _real_ mountainbikers. We look at the pictures and the race results and say: "HAHHAHA... that tommyrod74, he will never see this cool stuff! HAHAHA!"

You got an issue with 29" wheels hambone? Why don't you just spell it out?

Do it quick. I have 4000' of climbing to do in a few hours.... on wheels made for athletes and big-man bikes.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Rivet said:


> Don't expect an answer, he's just a "button pusher" from the F88 reject forum. Probably doesn't even own a bike.


Poor rivule. Can't handle F-88 can ya? :lol: I've seen ya try, and you always run away red in the face and ill-tempered.

I don't own a bike man... you are so right. No need to talk to me anymore. :thumbsup:


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

mtbzone said:


> Here is a shot of Nat from his 'punk' years.......
> 
> Low bridge!!!! :eekster:


AAAAAHHHHHHH! Dammit Mike!


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Rivet said:


> Everyone I've ever met that talked as much sh*t as you about bikes ALWAYS sucked when it came to actually riding them. I know in your case it's much of the same.


Yes, but HOW do you know?

Dude, anytime you want to do a little ride, come on up to altitude and you can see just how I "actually" ride. It will be climbing thousands of feet of elevation in about a mile per, to blast down for 2 hour downhills at top speed on a 29er hardtail. You better have 6 up front and 6 in the back on your kids wheeled bike, or you will be far behind. We do this just about everyday, so if you feel you are worthy, come on up. In fact, we will be headed out in about an hour. Bring it tiny ruvule.

:thumbsup:


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> Action shots? :lol: Race results? :lol:
> 
> I save those for _real_ mountainbikers. We look at the pictures and the race results and say: "HAHHAHA... that tommyrod74, he will never see this cool stuff! HAHAHA!"


So let's see the shots then big guy of your epic rides and you launching your 29'er? I'm gonna guess that nobody on this forum (conveniently) has any pics of ya either right - despite the fact that you live in the most popular mt. biking state? I mean, let's be honest, who really wants to ride with a total douchebag, eh?

Guys, why do I get a funny feeling 29colossus is simply a reincarnation of damonnomad?? Only, instead of saying why his nomad is so sweet (and other bikes suck), he's now saying why his 29'er kicks so much arse. Those that read Damon's posts know what I'm talking about here......see a resemblance? Damon was banned in May.....29colossus shows up in June. Hmmmmm.......

EBX


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

victorthewombat said:


> I did not wish to post in regard to this crap argument
> 
> But Cloxxi if you are gonna post "Someone incorrectly used the 26" standard invented for kid's-fool-around bikes for adult XC riding. It's going to take 4 decades, but then 26" will be what is was, for kids. And for riding like BMX and dirtjump, where it just works out better to habe small diameter wheels to roll over the and through the dirts." at least quote the source from who originally thought this idea - and that's Matt Chester who was stating this 4 years ago and he probably stole it from Don McLung. Matt is a big 29er fan. But he rides mainly offroad Brevets. Bottom line both wheel sizes have thier place. Although I have ridden 29er I not gonna make the jump because I am lazy and it is not worth it to jump to all new equipment. There! both the cat and the mouse are out of the bag and 'nuff said.


Great minds must think alike. I tend to do my owning writing, and especially making up my own opinions. Sort of explains me as a Dutchie hanging on a geeky US forum.
I respect MC a lot for doing his own thing and someof the stuff he stands behind, but have read too little of his work (2 minute attention span, I barely make it through posting this) to accidentally quote him on this. I read some (short) posts and articles, talked to some of the guys that were there in the 70's, and try to make sense of it all.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

*26? 29? Huh?*



crux said:


> With all the buzz going around about the 29ers being the best thing to happen since sliced bread are the 26er singlespeed days numbered till all are converted? or am I just paranoid with all the recent marketing hype?


You mean there's more than one wheel size? I didn't know that! How do I tell which size wheel my bike has on it?

Have I been having less fun than I should all this time? Oh dear...

That does it! No more mountain biking for me. I'm buying a new car, and it's gonna have the biggest wheels I can get. I think my old car must be dead...

--Sparty


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

I think the basis of all the controversy is a genius invention. Or 2.
Wheels are an impossible to improve upon shape for getting from A to B without flying it. They work so well, that even disproportionately small ones (adult with 26") still seems to work "just fine".
As with cranks. It's clear that those are preferred to have in a length proportionate to your femur length, pedaling style, etc, but even using relative short (modern grown men with 175mm) or long (8yo kid on first "real bike, 175mm) ones, you still seem to pedal just fine.
The genius of these circularly moving parts make that one can get used to the wrong size, making the right, feel wrong. There's pro's and con's involved in both, but a sweet spot does exist. The genius of the design makes that you can get away with missen that sweep spot by 10%, no problem. But to say a kid need cranks the length of it's femurs, and a grown man the size of his willy, is just that, double standards. Same for wheels. Why give your kid a 26" bike be fore (s)he's fully grown, if 26" is the perfect MTB wheelsize?

While there are con's to each "perfect" szie, it's important to seperate priority from detail. with bikes, rolling is priority. Accelerating is a detail. You'll know when you run 10mph alongside a bike, holding the seat, and pushing it forward. Will the 29"er top speed be so much lower because of ALL THAT WEIGHT keeping the arm swing from launching it up to speed? A nice thought, but rules of fysics don't work that way. The difference is going to be minute, and may balance the other way from what you expect, especially with the rider actually ON the bike.

From the true 26" MTB pioneers, a few are still in the business. More than a proportionate part is pushing the "niche". Joe Murray (VooDoo), Gary Fisher, Keith Bontrager, Steve Potts, and quite some more. Are they now silly old geezers that should not be listened to? That can't pedal a bike out of a corner anyway?

_No-one
No-one is blinder
Than he
Who will not 
See

U2_


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## N8! (Jan 28, 2006)

mrsalty said:


> N8!,
> Cannot comment on the 'wife' part of this post.................as I do not have one of those.
> However, I have to comment on that piece of CRAP SS you have.................embarassing.
> What does that weigh???
> ...


Oh _that _old thing..??? 

Info here: https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=219224&highlight=jesus

Been on Delgado's since my old Speedgoat Asylum last year with no problems and I am rough on my bikes... I currently have them on my ss and my beater bike as well (see below):


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

ebxtreme said:


> So let's see the shots then big guy of your epic rides and you launching your 29'er? I'm gonna guess that nobody on this forum (conveniently) has any pics of ya either right - despite the fact that you live in the most popular mt. biking state? I mean, let's be honest, who really wants to ride with a total douchebag, eh?
> 
> Guys, why do I get a funny feeling 29colossus is simply a reincarnation of damonnomad?? Only, instead of saying why his nomad is so sweet (and other bikes suck), he's now saying why his 29'er kicks so much arse. Those that read Damon's posts know what I'm talking about here......see a resemblance? Damon was banned in May.....29colossus shows up in June. Hmmmmm.......
> 
> EBX


It's him. Somebody already made the connection a while ago.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Cloxxki said:


> Great minds must think alike. I tend to do my owning writing, and especially making up my own opinions. Sort of explains me as a Dutchie hanging on a geeky US forum.
> I respect MC a lot for doing his own thing and someof the stuff he stands behind, but have read too little of his work (2 minute attention span, I barely make it through posting this) to accidentally quote him on this. I read some (short) posts and articles, talked to some of the guys that were there in the 70's, and try to make sense of it all.


But your argument is idiotic. Why do you think 29'ers exist? Because somebody tried to go offroading with road rims. Not because anybody made any scientific evaluation and decided 700c was optimum, it's just the next convenient size around.


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

yes 26ers are dead and you know it.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Rivet said:


> It's him. Somebody already made the connection a while ago.


No shite???

Wow, he was spewing the dumbest crap on a Kona thread for the past couple of months and I JUST put 2 and 2 together and didn't really think it was him. His 29'er posts are almost as bad as his old Nomad posts were.......almost. He's Zen dontcha know!! :crazy:

I'd still like to see some pics of these epic rides he talks about and him launching his 29'er. He's got such a bubbling personality that one of his riding buddies on here can surely provide some. :thumbsup: 

EBX


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## JAK (Jan 6, 2004)

*Not eve dude, not eve...*

However, for me yes they are dead and need to be sold...

I represent 'me'. All this preachin' crap is friggin hilarious. Most of it comes from folks who try and write proofs, think their 'way' is THE WAYand type more about it than ride it. Plus, who gives a rats ass? If you do, try lookin' for a life first!

Damn I need to ride!!! :eekster:


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## Nonracerrichie (Dec 20, 2005)

Gary Fisher and KB are both essentially, Trek. I am sure Gary is driving the 29er side but it is a great way to differentiate one of their brands. Steve Potts and Joe Murray are hardly well known compared to Giant, Specialized, Cannondale, KHS or Kona, and among them all only Kona has been somewhat active in marketing a 29er, so what does that say about thesuperiority of 29er's? Tom Ritchey is still well in business but does not mess with 29er stuff but for that one large cross tire he makes. Joe Breeze of Breezer builds commuters, so by your reasoning about what some of the pioneers are up to with Joe Breeze as a precedent then road and mountain racing of any kind must be on its way to death. 

Accelerating is a detail, and rolling a priority what are you on? If accelerating was not a priority then there would not be a weight weenies forum. The lightest 29er wheel will always be heavier than the lightest 26er. They just need more rubber, tube, rim, and spoke to perform equally. There is no other truth. 

This stuff all cracks me up. Here we go, in a nutshell, 29ers are new and different, that is it. 26 will never go away, nor will 24. If say, oh 40 years from now 26" wheels are no longer being produced then some marketing guru will find these nutty posts and decide to build them. They will be marketed as whatever and argued as the next bestest greatest thing and there will be 26er nuts. Just like Rivendell has somehow managed to bring back 650b.


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*nonracerrichie makes some great points*

and tell the truth the man is right. Tom, all of us remember right? was namely a road racer...read NATIONIAL CAMPIONE at 16 in 71 or 72


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*nonracerrichie makes some great points...*

and tell the truth the man is right. Tom Ritchey, all of us remember right? was namely a road racer...read NATIONIAL CAMPIONE at 16 in 71 or 72. He got into mountain bike mainly by seekay's request litterary. But, the man, TR that is, and love him or loathe him builds **** that lasts and is important to the majority of mountainbikers. That is it. Gary is Gary his travails are well and that is 'nuff said.

VTW


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

victorthewombat said:


> and tell the truth the man is right. Tom Ritchey, all of us remember right? was namely a road racer...read NATIONIAL CAMPIONE at 16 in 71 or 72. He got into mountain bike mainly by seekay's request litterary. But, the man, TR that is, and love him or loathe him builds **** that lasts and is important to the majority of mountainbikers. That is it. Gary is Gary his travails are well and that is 'nuff said.
> 
> VTW


Say what, huh. Not trying to put down your wordsmithing skills but, damn.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Rivet said:


> Say what, huh. Not trying to put down your wordsmithing skills but, damn.


I was thinking Victor is from Italy and his Italian-to-English translator program went kaplooie, but it turns out he's from California and _he_ went kaplooie.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

Hey, what about those guys who think that 24" wheels are the neatest thing since sliced bread was invented?


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## victorthewombat (Jan 12, 2004)

*apologies to all*

Rivet and Nat, 
This is what happens when you respond on this board and you are tired. Apologies extended.

VTW

The point I was trying to make is Mr. Ritchey made quite a few mountian bike and road bike frames in the early 80's and to this day makes excellent components for road and mountain. Before that, he was a very successful Junior racer. I do not know his feelings towards the 29" wheel subject. To paraphrase nonracerrichie Mr. Ritchey does not mess with specific 29er componentry

I think the argument for the slower accerating wheels is very valid. However, there is a benefit for larger wheels being able to roll over small bumps and baby heads better. That said I do not believe the 29 inch wheel standard will ever be the majority of bikes. Low or high end. 29ers are not superior just different. If you like and want to convert please do what you wish.

29 inch wheels are not going to make you fast overnight or even a year. Hard training does performs that function.

VTW


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## mudplugger (Nov 10, 2005)

*looking at numbers*

The number of people on a particular forum at a given time of day may be an interesting barometer of the 26er.
I remember about a year or two ago Singlespeed readers would outnumber 29 inch readers
quite easily. In recent times, the ratio seems to have reversed.


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## Eric_C (Jun 2, 2006)

Yup. Stone dead. Anyone near my area, gimme a call and I'll haul off the corpse for ya for a minor fee. Special price for you my friend :thumbsup:


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

The wheel weight would be interesting in terms of acceleration in cycling was a radio controlled sports, with the same speeds reached as man powered. The effects of wheel weight would be like 10-fold of what there are in the sad reality were you have to haul you own fat ass to be able to call it "riding".


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Cloxxki said:


> The wheel weight would be interesting in terms of acceleration in cycling was a radio controlled sports, with the same speeds reached as man powered. The effects of wheel weight would be like 10-fold of what there are in the sad reality were you have to haul you own fat ass to be able to call it "riding".


I think I understand you a little less each day.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

IMHO, 29ers look really goofy and ugly.
I'll never give up my 26" bike.
(not that i can afford a new bike anyways)


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## mtntrance (Sep 3, 2005)

*Great report and congrats on your new Unit 2-9*



waltaz said:


> After years of traditional 26" riding, most of the last two of which have been spent SS'ing, I built up a 29'er and took my first ride yesterday. Note that I went from a Kona Unit to a Kona Unit 2-9'er, so it's a pretty close comparison. Here are my initial observations:
> 
> * It rolls really well. As you get going, you can feel the momentum more so than on a 26'er. This was a key theme throughout and impacted much of what I experienced.
> * I was worried that it would be harder to get the 29'er going on climbs and "dead-points" where you almost come to a stop as you power up something. Not so; it felt about the same as the 26'er.
> ...


I sold a Specialized S- Works Stumpy FSR right after I bought a GF Rig. I got to fall in love with the bigger wheel and single speeding at the same time. I am now trying to sell my Uzzi at a huge loss becuase its too much bike for me. I still want a squishy even though my Dos Niner is so forgiving so I am trying to decide between a 29er with suspension or a 6.6 or 5 pack. I will probably go with the squishy 29er. That being said I live in S. Cal and if I was in the South East I might lean more towards 26er for single track. I am not particularly impressed by evangelical posts about 29er bikes but I am so glad I bought one. People say that v brakes are not dead but 90% of higher end mtbs have disk brakes becuase they work better even though they weigh more. I expect the 29er market to explode but there will always be 26ers.


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## Kuklinski (Sep 6, 2006)

*29ers have NOTHING, 26ers will always reign supreme*

I don't see anyone ever getting a result on a 29er. I only see and hear the verbal diarrhea that pours from some of their owners mouths. JHK won every race of the season on a 26 inch until Gary Fisher convinced him to try a 29er. His result? 7th or 8th from memory. You guesed it, it sucked! Worst ever result. There is a very good reason why the industry is dominated by 26" rims. THEY WORK BEST! Keep telling yourselves and everybody you meet how much better those 29ers are, as I enjoy a good laugh.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kuklinski said:


> I don't see anyone ever getting a result on a 29er. JHK won every race of the season on a 26 inch until Gary Fisher convinced him to try a 29er. His result? 7th or 8th from memory.


What does that have to do with me?


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Raghavan said:


> IMHO, 29ers look really goofy and ugly.
> I'll never give up my 26" bike.
> (not that i can afford a new bike anyways)


Now that is a great reason to not ride a 29er... it "looks goofy and ugly."

Well.. it sounds like you are on the right wheel size because that sounds like something a child would say. The 26" childs wheel is right up your alley.


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## Raghavan (Aug 14, 2005)

29Colossus said:


> Now that is a great reason to not ride a 29er... it "looks goofy and ugly."
> 
> Well.. it sounds like you are on the right wheel size because that sounds like something a child would say. The 26" childs wheel is right up your alley.


Well, have fun riding on your fugly and heavy 29er. I guess ill stick with my 26" "childs" bike.


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

Now that I'm used to my 29er, 26s look small 

26s aren't dead. There's way too many of them and the associated parts.


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## fatlad (Mar 19, 2006)

if I ride 26" wheels does this make me a 57 year old kid?

I hope it does!


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Raghavan said:


> Well, have fun riding on your fugly and heavy 29er. I guess ill stick with my 26" "childs" bike.


More funny stuff....

My 29er is 24 pounds. That is sooo heavy! :lol: "Fugly"? I wouldn't know if it was, and I wouldn't even begin to care. I don't ride bikes to look pretty. I am already pretty.

Another dope that has never seen a 29er, let alone ridden one, spewing ignorance. I am pleased to know that you are going to stick to what suits you though. That should be comforting to you.

:thumbsup:


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## Just J (Feb 14, 2005)

I hope to have an ugly 29R soon, but I'll still ride my pretty 26" wheeled bikes too, even though one of them will be heavier!


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## rpet (Jan 27, 2004)

None of the 29er benefits apply to me and my riding style.

-r


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## DeeZee (Jan 26, 2005)

*??*



rpet said:


> None of the 29er benefits apply to me and my riding style.
> 
> -r


Please explain your _style_


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

rpet said:


> None of the 29er benefits apply to me and my riding style.
> 
> -r


:lol:

That was sweet.


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## billyd203 (Sep 27, 2006)

29Colossus or Cloxxki I'll ride a 29er if you buy me one.

Didn't Ryan Trebon and Barry Wick just win natioal championships on 26ers?

I quess there good for something.:thumbsup:


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

billyd203 said:


> 29Colossus or Cloxxki I'll ride a 29er if you buy me one.


I already bought it and sent it out! UPS says it was delivered... You didn't get it!? OMG....



> Didn't Ryan Trebon and Barry Wick just win natioal championships on 26ers?


Don't know? Don't care!



> I quess there good for something.:thumbsup:


How would you know what they are good for? You have never ridden one.



29ers rock your world!!!


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## Steel Ridr (Sep 25, 2005)

After the 29" novelty wears off 650B will take it's place. Just watch!


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## Sixty Fiver (Apr 10, 2006)

colussus - If you need to compensate for certain inadequacies by riding a big wheeled bike then all the power to you but should just grow up and try to not act like a complete tool everytime you sit down in front of the computer.

Other folks can just ride without the need to for making themselves feel superior or others inferior, why can't you ?

So my son and I were driving the other day and passed a Hummer and he said, "it's sad that the guy has no penis".

You don't drive a Hummer do you ?


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## meat tooth paste (Sep 7, 2004)

Nah, 29ers will not take over imo, and I am 29er rider. On-One Inbred and now a custom on the way.

I do think that the 29er has breathed back life into the hardtail market. I remember not too long ago, a handful of magazines had pronounced the hardtail dead. I had gone full suspension and never thought I would go back to a hardtail. One demo ride on a 29er hardtail and I changed my opinion.


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## billyd203 (Sep 27, 2006)

29ers are cool. Anyone riding a 29er in New England?

I just got smaller tires for by xc hardtail 26 x 1.85, and now everyone is telling me I need bigger tires. lol 

After numerous injuries I find myself taking it easy on my body these days. I like to keep a low gear and ride form my house to one of the two trail I have to choose from. Occationally I like to take my cyclocross bike to the trail. Between the three off road bikes I have (fat chance wicked 36x18)(cannondale f series full gear)(kona jake the snake) I think the cannondale is the most forgiving on my knees, back, and arms. I can granny gear all day and still have a good time. The cross bike is fun, but I can feel the difference in climb with the taller gearing. I don't think a 29er would not be for me. I not that strong. 

I think I would also say full suspension isn't for me too. Everyone was telling me I need a 35lbs monster with huge travel to jump off five to twenty foot rocks.

I don't want to jump off anything. My back hurts just thinking about doing that. I just want to ride on some nice New England singletrack:thumbsup: for an hour or two.


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## epik (Nov 19, 2006)

BontyRider said:


> Get with it! 29ers are so passe. Everyone should ride 34's like me. They're so big that the wheels actually overlap, so I can only make right turns. It sucks cuz I keep going in circles, but I can roll over anything. :skep:


LOL

26 rigid SS for life :thumbsup:


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## tosis (Jul 25, 2004)

You know, I think there is an important fact NO ONE has raised yet:

Much as I do want to try/ love 29er's, I haven't so much as had a chance to try one. Why? I ride a 16" frame. I can't for the life of me find anyone with one, let alone a stocking dealer. 

Selection is the problem. Let's say I have $2200 to spend on a new bike. I can visit a dozen shops in my city, and see bikes from dozens of brands, all my size. And if I'm lucky, I might come across ONE 18" 29er.

Not only that, with my 26er, I can choose from hundreds of tire options out there. If I need a new fork, the world is my oyster. 

If I'm in some god forsaken hole in the wall on a road trip, I can find tubes anywhere. (I know, I know "bring your own crap"... But sometimes reality is a little different). 

So my point is this: I won't pick a standard (29er) that so severely hamstrings me with choices. Now should it grow to a point where all these things become commonly available, then I'll give it a go...


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## the Inbred (Jan 13, 2004)

i find myself going back and forth between 26 and 29 for my next bike, which might be happening sooner rather than later. i like what 29 is supposed to be able to do, but i like how 26 is. i can't really ride something comparable to what i want to get, though, so it's hard to decide. really, my main concern revolves around how 'playful' a 29 can be, how 'flickable'. will i be riding it, or hanging on? 

and like tosis said, product selection kind of sucks for 29 still. no Larsen TTs...boo.


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## drunkle (Nov 11, 2005)

i remember fondly my 24" that had short chainstays, tight steering and flickability. i dont see why 29" gets so much attention when 24 never did.


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## Pudgerboy (Nov 17, 2006)

Can any taller riders give any insight into the benefits of a 29er over a 26er? Im 6ft 4inches and despite the reported advantages with smaller frames i always feel awkward with the sizing. With not knowing too much about off-road riding when i started , i seemed to get conflicting info from bike shops and I even ended up buying a frame that was too large from a shop that i trusted. With my arms being long I always feel a little too upright for my liking. I realize there are many aspects that contribute to the overall riding position with any set up but wondered if there were any general advantages for the singlespeed gibbons like me.


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## Frank Tuesday (Jan 12, 2004)

Wheel's don't have handling characteristics. (They have slight handling characteristics due to the gyroscopic effect, which some people argue is a fallacy.) Bikes have handling characteristics. If you rode a 29er that was slow and lethargic, it wasn't because of the wheels. It was because of the design of the frame. I've ridden 26ers that were slow and lethergic, much slower than ANY 29er I've ever ridden. If you want a 29er than is quick handling, snappy and great for tight, technical singletrack, get one that handles that way. Don't go ride a Fisher and think that all 29ers handle that way. That is one bike. Buy a bike that fits your riding demands. There are 26 and 29 that will be perfect for what you ride. There will be 26 and 29 that will completely suck for what you ride. Don't blame it on the wheel size. Find the one that works for you and don't worry what size the wheels are.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Frank Tuesday said:


> There will be 26 and 29 that will completely suck for what you ride.


See, this is where your wrong. The only way a bike could "suck" is if it wasn't working correctly. As long as you are out pedaling, it's good bike. Getting caught up in wheels size and type of bike SUCKS the fun right out of riding a bike.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Rivet said:


> See, this is where your wrong. The only way a bike could "suck" is if it wasn't working correctly. As long as you are out pedaling, it's good bike. Getting caught up in wheels size and type of bike SUCKS the fun right out of riding a bike.


In reality in my world, the people I ride with that are riding 26" wheeled bikes are more concerned about me riding a 29er than I am. I often just forget that I am riding a 29er. It just is.


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## BikeMojo (Jan 6, 2005)

Frank Tuesday said:


> If you rode a 29er that was slow and lethargic, it wasn't because of the wheels.


While I agree that any bike must be considered as a unit rather than the sum of it's parts...

You mentioned the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, but I respectfully remind everyone about rotational mass. That is one bit of physics that 26" wheels will have a leg up on WRT the 29ers for all time.



the Inbred said:


> my main concern revolves around how 'playful' a 29 can be, how 'flickable'. will i be riding it, or hanging on?
> 
> and like tosis said, product selection kind of sucks for 29 still. no Larsen TTs...boo.


I'm with the Inbred. -dustin knows my affinity toward the TT's


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Pudgerboy said:


> Can any taller riders give any insight into the benefits of a 29er over a 26er? Im 6ft 4inches and despite the reported advantages with smaller frames i always feel awkward with the sizing. With not knowing too much about off-road riding when i started , i seemed to get conflicting info from bike shops and I even ended up buying a frame that was too large from a shop that i trusted. With my arms being long I always feel a little too upright for my liking. I realize there are many aspects that contribute to the overall riding position with any set up but wondered if there were any general advantages for the singlespeed gibbons like me.


Try the FAQ on the 29" forum. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=18514

A few "big" things for me as a 6'4" rider :
- fewer instances where one wheel will leave the ground when you didn't mean that to happen. Making for fewer endo's and steeper seated climbing.
- Cornering speeds. To the point of using much less brakes, and putting greatly reduced effort into reaching cruising speeds after corners.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

Yup, 26ers are dead and are for 5 year old curb huckers



















And a shot of me riding my 26inch wheels.... 29Colossus pics?


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## Daner (Apr 30, 2004)

Robbie is doing stuff that goes beyond the current state of 29'er rubber. How that relates to what the rest of us are doing is not entirely clear.

Both JJ and Aqua huck like you do using rigid 29'ers. Lance Canfield has gone much bigger than that on a Lenz Behemoth FS 29'er, despite the fact that he only had XC tires.

That's not to say that the 26er is dead, just that the 29er is not as limited as you would make it out to be. Different strokes, ya know.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

Nat said:


> The last pic is of a 4' (or more) drop to flat off of the "Diving Board" that resulted in no wheel collapse, hardtail and all.


Uhhhh, no offense or anything, but that looks more like a 2 ft drop to me....:thumbsup:

Oh woops, i take that back, i was looking at the first picture, my bad. Yeah that does look like a 4ft drop then... It looks like you might be better off suited riding a 6inch travel trail bike, for what ur doing though...


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> Uhhhh, no offense or anything, but that looks more like a 2 ft drop to me....:thumbsup:
> 
> Oh woops, i take that back, i was looking at the first picture, my bad. Yeah that does look like a 4ft drop then... * It looks like you might be better off suited riding a 6inch travel trail bike, for what ur doing though..*.


Maybe, but the point was that a 29" xc wheel _can_ take such a drop-off to flat without totally collapsing, contrary to what people seem to think. There's a popular argument that 29" wheels are weak.

Why stop at 6" travel? Why not choose something made by Kawasaki or Honda? I've ridden in Moab dozens of times, using bikes from rigid aluminum to 6" FS, and I had as much fun this last time on the 29er hardtail SS as on any previous trip.

If you change your bike, you change the experience. It's a matter of adjusting your attitude and technique to accomodate. This trip I wanted to know what Moab would feel like on a 29er singlespeed.

Edit: Now that I've reviewed the whole thread, I'm reminded that my point was also that Fast Eddy's allegation that 29" wheels wouldn't hold up to The Waterfall on National Trail is bunk. The Waterfall is kitten play, and a 29er would be ideal for it.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

Nat said:


> Maybe, but the point was that a 29" xc wheel _can_ take such a drop-off to flat without totally collapsing, contrary to what people seem to think. There's a popular argument that 29" wheels are weak.
> 
> Why stop at 6" travel? Why not choose something made by Kawasaki or Honda? I've ridden in Moab dozens of times, using bikes from rigid aluminum to 6" FS, and I had as much fun this last time on the 29er hardtail SS as on any previous trip.
> 
> ...


Sure, ride what you like, I can respect that! If you enjoy riding 29er just as much, Im not going to hammer on you about it:thumbsup: Its all about having fun right? Happy trails!


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## northparkrider (Sep 26, 2005)

Okay from my personal experience a 29 may roll faster and smoother over small rocks and roots but when it comes to tight and technical singletrack youve gotta be kidding me. You cant to anything really aggressive with a 29er. Thats why almost all 29ers are hardtails and the longest travel 29 is 5 inches rear. 26ers will never leave because of the gravity gang. You just cant make a 29 inch wheel bombproof without making it rediculously heavy. I ride agressive xc and i can definitely so how a 29er could be great for some trails but when it comes to anything agressive you need a 26er for sure. Id also like to say roadies ride 29ers and i dont like roadies their stuck up and they match their clothes. So i thik the 29er wheels are rubbing some of the roadie bike snob attitude off on their mountin bike riding counterparts.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> Sure, ride what you like, I can respect that! If you enjoy riding 29er just as much, Im not going to hammer on you about it:thumbsup: Its all about having fun right? Happy trails!


That's cool. It _is_ all about having fun. I think people tend to forget that. I seem to have fun regardless of which bike I'm on.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

northparkrider said:


> Okay from my personal experience a 29 may roll faster and smoother over small rocks and roots but when it comes to tight and technical singletrack youve gotta be kidding me. You cant to anything really aggressive with a 29er. Thats why almost all 29ers are hardtails and the longest travel 29 is 5 inches rear. 26ers will never leave because of the gravity gang. You just cant make a 29 inch wheel bombproof without making it rediculously heavy. I ride agressive xc and i can definitely so how a 29er could be great for some trails but when it comes to anything agressive you need a 26er for sure. *Id also like to say roadies ride 29ers and i dont like roadies their stuck up and they match their clothes. So i thik the 29er wheels are rubbing some of the roadie bike snob attitude off on their mountin bike riding counterparts.*


What kind of terrain do you consider aggressive xc? Do you have any pics, so I know to what you're referring?

Also, you said, "from my personal experience." Which 29er did you ride, and where?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

29Colossus said:


> Yes, but HOW do you know?
> 
> Dude, anytime you want to do a little ride, come on up to altitude and you can see just how I "actually" ride. It will be climbing thousands of feet of elevation in about a mile per, to blast down for 2 hour downhills at top speed on a 29er hardtail. You better have 6 up front and 6 in the back on your kids wheeled bike, or you will be far behind. We do this just about everyday, so if you feel you are worthy, come on up. In fact, we will be headed out in about an hour. Bring it tiny ruvule.
> 
> :thumbsup:


Come up to canada, we'll see how your bigass wheels hold up to 6 hours of daily skatepark, street and dirtjumping mayhem.


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*This whole thread reminds me...*

of when I first started mtbking in 2000, just when the steel ht was being given its last right's. I got a Jamis Dragon frame from Jenson for cheap because it was steel and lacked disc mounts. It rode so sweet that I havent purchased an alu frame since. Ironicly, steel is more popular now than it was then long after it was supposed to be dead. My point is there is a market for all types of bikes, alu and steel, 26er and 29er, fs and ht. The merit's of one dosnt render the other obsolete  . I personally would never buy and alu frame or fs bike, but that 's my preference's and we are each entitled to our own. Variety is the spice of life, it would be BORING if everyone rode the same type of bike, used the same components, etc.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

snaky69 said:


> Come up to canada, we'll see how your bigass wheels hold up to 6 hours of daily skatepark, street and dirtjumping mayhem.


Do they have bigger skateparks in Canada? I thought only kids rode skateparks, street, and dirt jumps. I guess kid-wheels would be appropriate then! Hoo-wahhhhh!


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Nat said:


> Do they have bigger skateparks in Canada? I thought only kids rode skateparks, street, and dirt jumps. I guess kid-wheels would be appropriate then! Hoo-wahhhhh!


I guess every pro and weekend warrior out there that has fun doing all those things on 26'', and *GASP* 24'' and 20'' bikes could disagree with the minority of riders that you represent. That said, I have never in my life seen someone as anally retentive as you about something so pointless like wheelsize.

You are so insecure that you need to push your beliefs onto everyone in an ONLINE community. You are really sad. I saw some of your pictures too, nobody needs bigger wheels to ride groomed singletrack. You amaze me with your stupidity really, and every post of yours I see makes me laugh because you are utterly pathetic.

All I can say is this, give me your 29er for about 20 minutes, and I'll come back with it with two flats, dents in both rims, and quite possibly a tacoed rear wheel. 20 minutes is all it would take for me to make your bike unrideable. So keep pushing your beliefs onto everyone like they were the best thing ever, you just make yourself look like a miserable person that simply wants attention by annoying everyone.

Get a life dude, and loosen up.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

snaky69 said:


> I guess every pro and weekend warrior out there that has fun doing all those things on 26'', and *GASP* 24'' and 20'' bikes could disagree with the minority of riders that you represent. That said, I have never in my life seen someone as anally retentive as you about something so pointless like wheelsize.
> 
> You are so insecure that you need to push your beliefs onto everyone in an ONLINE community. You are really sad. I saw some of your pictures too, nobody needs bigger wheels to ride groomed singletrack. You amaze me with your stupidity really, and every post of yours I see makes me laugh because you are utterly pathetic.
> 
> ...


Hooooooo! That was easy.

I should quit messing with you kids. Teenagers...such easy targets. Watch this:



snaky69 said:


> All I can say is this, give me your 29er for about 20 minutes, and I'll come back with it with two flats, dents in both rims, and quite possibly a tacoed rear wheel. 20 minutes is all it would take for me to make your bike unrideable.


That tells me you have no finesse.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Nat said:


> Hooooooo! That was easy.
> 
> I should quit messing with you kids. Teenagers...such easy targets. Watch this:
> 
> That tells me you have no finesse.


Wouldyou care to elaborate? I don't get why me being a teenager has anything to do with the current discussion. I'm not the one acting like a 5 year old.

Finesse? I have plenty of that, but a 180 is still a 180, and however much finesse you've got, the rims still take a huge blow.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

Nat said:


> Do they have bigger skateparks in Canada? I thought only kids rode skateparks, street, and dirt jumps. I guess kid-wheels would be appropriate then! Hoo-wahhhhh!


Hmmm, well Canada has Whistler "the premiere moutain biking/dirt jumping park in the world" so yes maybe they do? Only Kids riding skate parks, street, and dirt jumps??? What kind of an argument is that??? Care to take a look at the Red Bull Urban Bike Brawl?

Yup, he looks like a little kid


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## MtnBikerDan (Aug 9, 2005)

*Long Board / Short Board*

26ers are like Short Boards, Great for Chargin aggro, ok for soul rides

29er SS is like a Long Board - built for soul riding

I love them both - I ride both.

With Wider hubs and taller flanges a 29 wheel will be super strong, capable of holding up to DH / Hucks.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> Hmmm, well Canada has Whistler "the premiere moutain biking/dirt jumping park in the world" so yes maybe they do? Only Kids riding skate parks, street, and dirt jumps??? What kind of an argument is that??? Care to take a look at the Red Bull Urban Bike Brawl?
> 
> Yup, he looks like a little kid


Thanks for hopping in and proving my point.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

snaky69 said:


> Thanks for hopping in and proving my point.


Yup no problemos, gotta stick up for my fellow teenage riders...Im 19 BTW:thumbsup:


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## yater (Nov 3, 2006)

Worst. Thread. Ever.

I've never seen a 29'er at my local trails. Out of the 150-200 bikes at the races, there are usually 5-10 29ers. I'm 5'7" 130 lbs.....why on earth would I ride a taller, heavier bike than my anthem?? You 29er guys who drank the kool-aid should've test ridden first. That way you wouldn't seek confirmation bias on the internet.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

Nat said:


> Hooooooo! That was easy.
> 
> I should quit messing with you kids. Teenagers...such easy targets. Watch this:
> 
> That tells me you have no finesse.


Mmmmmaybe you should take a look at his user gallery before you start accusing him of having no finesse???:nono:


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

the 29er evangelists do an excelent job of making me stay away from the format.  
maybe they want some kind of exclusity? keep it as a fringe, old fart wheel size.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

DeeZee said:


> and do not want to get into the same old boring debate:
> 
> The simple *FACT* is that the bicycle industry builds different size wheeled bikes *BASED ON RIDER HEIGHT*. There is nothing "magical" about the 26" wheel and no reason for the bike industry to stop building bigger wheeled bikes that are beyond 26".:skep: ut:
> 
> ...


as long as you ride tame trails and don't get air or do anything radical, yes, the 29er is for old and slow people.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> Yup no problemos, gotta stick up for my fellow teenage riders...Im 19 BTW:thumbsup:


Settle down ya boys, I'm just f'ng with you. I just can't seem to control myself from pushing peoples' buttons when you present such big, flashing buttons to push. It's like a Pavlovian thing.

Honestly I couldn't care less what you ride. I just like seeing you get your thongs all in a bunch. [click]


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

colker1 said:


> as long as you ride tame trails and don't get air or do anything radical, yes, the 29er is for old and slow people.


...and art lovers, right colker?


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## Locoman (Jan 12, 2004)

1/3 of all mountain bikes are 29ers. Or so you would think if you read Dirtrag. Don't get me wrong, I love the magazine but it covers 29ers way more than it should.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

29Colossus said:


> What are you talking about? You don't think the Lens Sport Behemouth can "launch" at will?


No, i dont think the Behemouth can launch at will. Just look at the travel....5 inches! Freeride/hucking/launching rigs are going to be speced with no less than 6 inches of travel. Notice on the page: Superlight-weight, All-Mountain, Traill-riding.... What manufacture puts those kinds of descriptions next to a hucking bike? I am aware of the fact that the manufacture puts FR next to XC, but really guys look at the description and it is quite clear that it is not designed for launching at will! But i suppose if you consider a 3 ft drops launching at willl/freeride, sure it will work great "more like AM." But realistically, I really dont see it holding up to 8ft hucks, large jumps etc. I want to be very clear that 29ers have their place, as do 26ers, and small wheeled BMX bikes. Currently, I enjoy hucking my 05 Kona Coiler, taking it easy on the climbs, jumping, and ripping up the downhills. Thats me, thats my riding style, and there arent any 29ers out there right now that will better suit my riding style then a 39 Ib, 6.75 x 6 inch travel, 26 inch wheeled, rig. I see absolutely no advantage to going to a lighter, and shorter travel bike...:thumbsup:


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> No, i dont think the Behemouth can launch at will. Just look at the travel....5 inches! Freeride/hucking/launching rigs are going to be speced with no less than 6 inches of travel. Notice on the page: Superlight-weight, All-Mountain, Traill-riding.... What manufacture puts those kinds of descriptions next to a hucking bike? I am aware of the fact that the manufacture puts FR next to XC, but really guys look at the description and it is quite clear that it is not designed for launching at will! But i suppose if you consider a 3 ft drops launching at willl/freeride, sure it will work great "more like AM." But realistically, I really dont see it holding up to 8ft hucks, large jumps etc. I want to be very clear that 29ers have their place, as do 26ers, and small wheeled BMX bikes. Currently, I enjoy hucking my 05 Kona Coiler, taking it easy on the climbs, jumping, and ripping up the downhills. Thats me, thats my riding style, and there arent any 29ers out there right now that will better suit my riding style then a 39 Ib, 6.75 x 6 inch travel, 26 inch wheeled, rig.:thumbsup:


For hitting drops I think there's no substitute for travel (except for skill). An old roomie could hit 10' to flat concrete all day on his rigid (I watched it). He landed softly, like a cat. The only time I ever saw him break anything was when I t-boned him with my bike. Oops!

Me, I want 6"+ for anything over 5' since that's where my comfort zone ends. That eliminates most 29ers for me. Anything under 5' I try to land cat-like. Think trials.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

Nat said:


> For hitting drops I think there's no substitute for travel (except for skill). An old roomie could hit 10' to flat concrete all day on his rigid (I watched it). He landed softly, like a cat. The only time I ever saw him break anything was when I t-boned him with my bike. Oops!
> 
> Me, I want 6"+ for anything over 5' since that's where my comfort zone ends. That eliminates most 29ers for me. Anything under 5' I try to land cat-like. Think trials.


Thats very true, atleast to an extent... Yeah, i know there are trials guys that can hit huge stuff on ridgid bikes, they got some serious skillz! I know, to guys who did a 9ft drop with BMX bikes, crazy! Was there any advantage to using their BMXers, defintaly not, except for soar ankles, and hurt knees! When it come to hitting rock gardens, rubbly single track, a ridgid 29er/or even hardtail simply CANNOT corner as fast. No matter how much skill you have, that type of bike simply will not track over rough terrain like a 6inch travel bike. If the same rider who has lots of skill hits a rock garden on a 29er HT, and then goes to hit it with a large travel 26er bike, I will assure you he will be faster on the 26er. In my case, I like to ride the rock garden as fast as i can, so I am better off riding my Coiler. Now if some one likes to take things slower and carfully pick their lines, im sure they will be better off on a 29er HT. Its just a difference in rider preference and style. Robbie Bourdon isnt going to huck a 29er of a 60 ft cliff, just like Ned Overend isnt going to ride a 45 Ib Kona Stinky to win a grueling 50 mile long XC race. Both wheels have their place.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Nat said:


> ...and art lovers, right colker?


exactly. old and ignorant. as long as these role models ride 29ers the format won't reach a wide audience. :nono: seems the teenagers here have better understanding of values than you guys. i will stick w/ them.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> Thats very true, atleast to an extent... Yeah, i know there are trials guys that can hit huge stuff on ridgid bikes, they got some serious skillz! I know, to guys who did a 9ft drop with BMX bikes, crazy! Was there any advantage to using their BMXers, defintaly not, except for soar ankles, and hurt knees! *When it come to hitting rock gardens, rubbly single track, a ridgid 29er/or even hardtail simply CANNOT corner as fast. No matter how much skill you have, that type of bike simply will not track over rough terrain like a 6inch travel bike. If the same rider who has lots of skill hits a rock garden on a 29er HT, and then goes to hit it with a large travel 26er bike, I will assure you he will be faster on the 26er.* In my case, I like to ride the rock garden as fast as i can, so I am better off riding my Coiler. Now if some one likes to take things slower and carfully pick their lines, im sure they will be better off on a 29er HT. Its just a difference in rider preference and style. Robbie Bourdon isnt going to huck a 29er of a 60 ft cliff, just like Ned Overend isnt going to ride a 45 Ib Kona Stinky to win a grueling 50 mile long XC race. Both wheels have their place.


It's probably true that the 6+6 would be faster than the 29er HT through rock gardens (except maybe in unusual circumstances such as with a rider who is 6'7" and can't fit _any_ 26er appropriately), but it's also probably true that a given rider on a 3" travel 29er would be faster than if he were on a similar 3" travel 26er over that same terrain. I also think we both agree that WhoTF cares? Pick the bike to suit your tastes. Switch up bikes whenever you feel like it to fit your mood. I usually also like to go as fast as I can with whichever bike I happen to be on at the moment (but I've discovered the joy of coasting -- a singlespeed thing perhaps). Both types of bikes have their place. I'd also never pick _either_ type of bike for a group road ride. Wrong tool!

What kind of person eats the same food every damned day and never tries something different?


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## BobV (Dec 14, 2006)

If 29 is so much better than 26 why are people not screaming for 30", or 31"? 

Like a couple of smart posters have suggested before, it's all about sales, and the bike industry trying to breath new life into a sport that has stagnated. Some will follow as good sheep with wallets open. Others will be smart and realize the outcome is 90% rider and 10% machine. They know the best rider will still beat everyone on whatever they happen to ride, and the worse rider will loose to everyone no matter how expensive a bike he has.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

BobV said:


> Like a couple of smart posters have suggested before, it's all about sales, and *the bike industry trying to breath new life into a sport that has stagnated.*


I guess that means that if you cared about this sport, then you'd go buy a 29er. If the bike manufacturers go under, then it's all your fault!

Man I'm feeling argumentative today. Don't listen to me...I need meds or a trip to the spa or something.


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## the Inbred (Jan 13, 2004)

BikeMojo said:


> While I agree that any bike must be considered as a unit rather than the sum of it's parts...
> 
> You mentioned the gyroscopic effect of the wheels, but I respectfully remind everyone about rotational mass. That is one bit of physics that 26" wheels will have a leg up on WRT the 29ers for all time.
> 
> I'm with the Inbred. -dustin knows my affinity toward the TT's


so my frame will be ready mid-Jan...i'm praying Crossmarks or TTs are available by then.


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## bykegnurd (Jun 8, 2005)

*29ers... wut ever.*

You 29er guys are all p*ssies... Here is my new ride; just ordered it last weekend, should be here in a few months.


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## ito (Feb 18, 2004)

29Colossus said:


> It is not an insult, it is a SLAP to our brothers that are still lost in 26" kids bike world. Barry Bonds swings a heavy bat because he is powerful. Are you powerful, or do you swing a little league bat?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BikeMojo (Jan 6, 2005)

northparkrider said:


> Id also like to say roadies ride 29ers and i dont like roadies their stuck up and they match their clothes. So i thik the 29er wheels are rubbing some of the roadie bike snob attitude off on their mountin bike riding counterparts.


hahahaha



edouble said:


> I first started mtbking in 2000, just when the steel ht was being given its last right's. I got a Jamis Dragon frame from Jenson for cheap because it was steel and lacked disc mounts. It rode so sweet that I havent purchased an alu frame since. Ironicly, steel is more popular now than it was then long after it was supposed to be dead. My point is there is a market for all types of bikes, alu and steel, 26er and 29er, fs and ht. The merit's of one dosnt render the other obsolete  .


but marketing can give the perception of reality.... Look at all the folks that bought aluminum hardtails 6 years ago. BTW good call on the Dragon, the best bang for your 853 buck.



the Inbred said:


> so my frame will be ready mid-Jan...i'm praying Crossmarks or TTs are available by then.


any word from Maxxis?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

ito said:


> 29Colossus said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure if you guys are sarcastic or serious...
> ...


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Nat said:


> ito said:
> 
> 
> > C'mon, which do you think it is? Just because there's no winky emoticon...
> ...


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## blizzard_mk (Feb 19, 2006)

thanks a lot everyone

I'm suppose to be studying for the last final exam of my college career, and I've wasted the last 45 minutes reading this crap (it's been pretty amusing). 

The combination of people who are seriously pissed off and don't get the sarcasm, the people who are sarcastic and trying to piss others off, and the people who are just nuts (unreasonable) makes for pretty entertaining reading 

In response to the original post, if I was buying a singlespeed, I'd get 29" wheels just because of the smoother ride. For me, big wheels make riding a rigid bike a lot more bearable.


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## northparkrider (Sep 26, 2005)

a great man once said "its not about the bike". Dude who the f cares at all what you ride. Just ride your bike whether its a 26 or a 29 it doesnt matter. People just get mad when you preach to them because you think everyone should ride the same thing as you. So shut up about your 29ers ill buy one in my own good time if i can hemmorage that much money.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

northparkrider said:


> a great man once said "its not about the bike". Dude who the f cares at all what you ride. Just ride your bike whether its a 26 or a 29 it doesnt matter. People just get mad when you preach to them because you think everyone should ride the same thing as you. So shut up about your 29ers ill buy one in my own good time if i can hemmorage that much money.


Who, me?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

blizzard_mk said:


> thanks a lot everyone
> 
> I'm suppose to be studying for the last final exam of my college career, and I've wasted the last 45 minutes reading this crap (it's been pretty amusing).
> 
> ...


WTF was the original post again?


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## bykegnurd (Jun 8, 2005)

*My serious 2 cents*

This answer is so PC, no one will be happy with it... but who cares, it's obvious you people have no f*cking idea what you are talking about, so let me enlighten you. UPS was kind enough to loose my 26 inch ss for 5 weeks this summer, so I was forced to borrow a 29er to ride. (Niner SIR) Frankly, it kicked ass on the rolling, rooty hills of the north east. However, I live on the central coast of California, where every damn hill is strait up, strait down, repeat. I think a 29er would suck here, especially a SS version. If you tire spins out on a climb, it would be damn near impossible to get it going again. (I know 5 weeks on a 29er isn't nearly as much as you kool aid drinkers have had, but it's enough to extrapolate.) Don't give me the, "Your tire wouldn't spin out because of the larger contact patch, blah blah blah. If you are grinding a SS up a12% grade with 2 inches of sand over hard pack, your tire will spin out occasionally. So in short, I think it depends on where you live, and how you ride... by writing "I think", I really mean, "I'm right and you are not."


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

bykegnurd said:


> This answer is so PC, no one will be happy with it... but who cares, it's obvious you people have no f*cking idea what you are talking about, so let me enlighten you. UPS was kind enough to loose my 26 inch ss for 5 weeks this summer, so I was forced to borrow a 29er to ride. (Niner SIR) Frankly, it kicked ass on the rolling, rooty hills of the north east. However, I live on the central coast of California, where every damn hill is strait up, strait down, repeat. I think a 29er would suck here, especially a SS version. If you tire spins out on a climb, it would be damn near impossible to get it going again. (I know 5 weeks on a 29er isn't nearly as much as you kool aid drinkers have had, but it's enough to extrapolate.) Don't give me the, "Your tire wouldn't spin out because of the larger contact patch, blah blah blah. If you are grinding a SS up a12% grade with 2 inches of sand over hard pack, your tire will spin out occasionally. So in short, I think it depends on where you live, and how you ride... by writing "I think", I really mean, "I'm right and you are not."


:skep:

I live at 8,000 feet. My rides consist of 4,000 feet of climbing in 10 or 12 miles, and bombing back down. 12% grades are the average on many of my rides. I ride a SS29er. It is PERFECT for the terrain I ride.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

bykegnurd said:


> This answer is so PC, no one will be happy with it... but who cares, it's obvious you people have no f*cking idea what you are talking about, so let me enlighten you. UPS was kind enough to loose my 26 inch ss for 5 weeks this summer, so I was forced to borrow a 29er to ride. (Niner SIR) Frankly, it kicked ass on the rolling, rooty hills of the north east. However, I live on the central coast of California, where every damn hill is strait up, strait down, repeat. I think a 29er would suck here, especially a SS version. If you tire spins out on a climb, it would be damn near impossible to get it going again. (I know 5 weeks on a 29er isn't nearly as much as you kool aid drinkers have had, but it's enough to extrapolate.) Don't give me the, "Your tire wouldn't spin out because of the larger contact patch, blah blah blah. If you are grinding a SS up a12% grade with 2 inches of sand over hard pack, your tire will spin out occasionally. So in short, I think it depends on where you live, and how you ride... by writing "I think", I really mean, "I'm right and you are not."


So maybe the riding sucks where you live, but at least you have the smog and crowds. Lucky...


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## bykegnurd (Jun 8, 2005)

*put down the crack pipe nat...*

Dude, your knowledge of California is lacking... I didn't say I lived in LA, San Diego or Orange County. I live on the Central Coast... the big city here is San Luis Obispo, which is 44,000 people. This is one of the most desirable places to live... The weather rivals San Diego... personally I think its better. The air is crystal clear, the ocean pristine, filled with otters, sea lions and porpoise. (and sharks) I never said the riding sucked, just that it was hard. I can surf in the morning, and ride a sweet trail in the afternoon and never have driven more than 10 miles. Uhhhh wait, you might want to live here. Never mind, it sucks here, the traffic is stifling, the smog choking, lines at every restaurant, the ocean looks like sludge and the riding is a series of poison oak filled, thorn riddled jeep trails. STAY AWAY!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

bykegnurd said:


> Dude, your knowledge of California is lacking... I didn't say I lived in LA, San Diego or Orange County. I live on the Central Coast... the big city here is San Luis Obispo, which is 44,000 people. This is one of the most desirable places to live... The weather rivals San Diego... personally I think its better. The air is crystal clear, the ocean pristine, filled with otters, sea lions and porpoise. (and sharks) I never said the riding sucked, just that it was hard. I can surf in the morning, and ride a sweet trail in the afternoon and never have driven more than 10 miles. Uhhhh wait, you might want to live here. Never mind, it sucks here, the traffic is stifling, the smog choking, lines at every restaurant, the ocean looks like sludge and the riding is a series of poison oak filled, thorn riddled jeep trails. STAY AWAY!


Jeez, tough crowd.

Maybe I should start using emoticons? Nahhh...


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*I am....*



billyd203 said:


> 29ers are cool. Anyone riding a 29er in New England?
> 
> I just got smaller tires for by xc hardtail 26 x 1.85, and now everyone is telling me I need bigger tires. lol
> 
> ...


and loving every minute of it :thumbsup: .


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

edouble said:


> and loving every minute of it :thumbsup: .


Zealot!!!


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

Locoman said:


> 1/3 of all mountain bikes are 29ers. Or so you would think if you read Dirtrag. Don't get me wrong, I love the magazine but it covers 29ers way more than it should.


shoulda been at punkbike enduro... LOTS OF 29ERS.

they are also all over the mid-atlantic. plenty of windy singletrack round here and no one is seeming to have problems.

i wouldn't say 1/3rd of the riders i see are on niners but easily 1/10th...

to those who think there is too much coverage of these bikes: it's a big new market segment, and lets face it people want to sell bikes, WELL THESE ARE NEW BIKES.

and a last thing; i think a commonly held misconception is that these bikes aren't good in tight singletrack, this is nonsense. if your bike sucks in the tight twisty stuff it's because of the bikes geometry not the tire size.

one thing i can say without thousands jumping down my throat is that especially as you get to be a tall fellow these bigger wheels make more and more sense.

does this bike look out of proportion?








cause at 6'3" i think i looked ridiculous on a 26" bike...


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## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

wow, the 29-ner rider is the new road-snob.


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## plume (May 26, 2006)

crux said:


> With all the buzz going around about the 29ers being the best thing to happen since sliced bread are the 26er singlespeed days numbered till all are converted? or am I just paranoid with all the recent marketing hype?


I'm curious, but I ain't gettin one any time soon. I love my 26 inch SS. Oh so very flickable.

:thumbsup:


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## eccentricbottombracket (Nov 13, 2006)

*26ers are alive and well, as are gears.*

I hate to sound like a heretic here on the Singlespeed board. I love my rigid singlespeed. I also love my gears, and my full suspension, and my 26 inch wheels. I also love my old school lugged Pinarello Road bike with the Campagnolo Chorus gruppo.

Nothing is going to go away, or get replaced. New concepts just add more to the mix.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

max-a-mill said:


> shoulda been at punkbike enduro... LOTS OF 29ERS.
> 
> they are also all over the mid-atlantic. plenty of windy singletrack round here and no one is seeming to have problems.
> 
> ...


Has nothing to do with 29er vs 26er, but how do you ride comfortatably with your seat higher than your handlbars? Its my understanding that the seat is supposed to be no higher than the handlebars... Higher stem maybe?:thumbsup:


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## plume (May 26, 2006)

eccentricbottombracket said:


> I hate to sound like a heretic here on the Singlespeed board. I love my rigid singlespeed. I also love my gears, and my full suspension, and my 26 inch wheels. I also love my old school lugged Pinarello Road bike with the Campagnolo Chorus gruppo.
> 
> Nothing is going to go away, or get replaced. New concepts just add more to the mix.


amen! all bikes are COOL!

:thumbsup:


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## eccentricbottombracket (Nov 13, 2006)

What is strange about his saddle/handlebar height relationship? It looks fine to me. He is right about the rider height thing. Big wheels for big riders make sense. Maybe I should try a 29er. That is one sweet looking bike, by the way, what frame is that?


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

eccentricbottombracket said:


> I hate to sound like a heretic here on the Singlespeed board. I love my rigid singlespeed. I also love my gears, and my full suspension, and my 26 inch wheels. I also love my old school lugged Pinarello Road bike with the Campagnolo Chorus gruppo.
> 
> Nothing is going to go away, or get replaced. New concepts just add more to the mix.


Ditto that too! Bikes simply are COOL I would have more than just my Blinged out Kona Coiler and Trek 8000 atb commuter convert if I could afford it. Come to think of it, these are some bikes I wouldnt mind having. If anyone has one or more than one of these bikes they would like to get rid of, pack em up and ship off to Rapid City for my Christmas present mmmk?

07 Kona Stinky Deluxe
07 Kona Dirt Jumper
A Road Bike
Ok, maybe i wouldnt mind a Kona Dawg Deluxe built up light...
I wouldnt mind trying the 29er thing either  "Behomath"
SS
Cyclocross Bike


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

eccentricbottombracket said:


> That is one sweet looking bike, by the way, what frame is that?


THANKS! it's a custom waltworks. this bike absolutely crushes the idea (for me anyway)that niners can't be ridden in tight singletrack. it is the most nimble mtb i have ever owned. and the bigwheels make it so stable on supertech descents.

http://www.waltworks.com/

and hey, i am all for riding whatever the [email protected] you want; but for me the descision is clear... i won't go back to smaller wheels.

but at least test ride a GOOD 29" wheeled bike set up to perform well in your local conditions and you soon may be eating your words as well... or maybe not. i am not short and can't coment on how good these wheels are for shorter people. i do however know several sub 6 footers who can still beat my @ss into the ground on their bigwheels.


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

eccentricbottombracket said:


> What is strange about his saddle/handlebar height relationship? It looks fine to me. He is right about the rider height thing. Big wheels for big riders make sense. Maybe I should try a 29er. That is one sweet looking bike, by the way, what frame is that?


I donno, it seems to me that riding with your rear higher then your hands would be ocward/oncomfortable. Thats just me though, jst my thoughts. Ride what ya like:thumbsup: A Gravity Dropper would a great upgrade Say, why dont I see more of those on XC rigs? It seems like it would be a HUGE advantage for all you XC guys? "Pedalling efficency on the climbs, and lower "better" center of gravity for DHs" I only see them on 6inch travel AM/FR rigs in my area


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## Mountainbikextremist (Jan 15, 2005)

*Thoughs*

For all of you 29er die hards...

If 29er are going to phase 26ers off the market....
Why havent 26ers phased out small wheeled BMX bikes

My point being:
-29ers have their place "currently its XC, and AM" THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE
-26ers have their place "currently its XC, AM, FR, DH, DJ" THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE
-20 & 24ers have their place "currently its "BMX, FR & DH -i have seen 24inch rear wheels-, childrens bikes -not to be confused with BMX bikes-" THEY ARE NOT GOING ANYWHERE


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mountainbikextremist said:


> Has nothing to do with 29er vs 26er, but how do you ride comfortatably with your seat higher than your handlbars? Its my understanding that the seat is supposed to be no higher than the handlebars... Higher stem maybe?:thumbsup:


Classic xc setup puts the bars a few inches lower than the saddle. My guess is that it comes from road riding setups in which you go long distances at speed (aerodynamics perhaps?) rather than jibbing and pulling abubucas and what-not.

I've found that I like my grips 1" higher than my saddle for SS'ing since I'm standing up to mash so much.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

eccentricbottombracket said:


> I hate to sound like a heretic here on the Singlespeed board. I love my rigid singlespeed. I also love my gears, and my full suspension, and my 26 inch wheels. I also love my old school lugged Pinarello Road bike with the Campagnolo Chorus gruppo.
> 
> Nothing is going to go away, or get replaced. New concepts just add more to the mix.


which pinarello? i love my vuelta. the thing corners like crazy.


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## BobV (Dec 14, 2006)

I heard that Kona is already working on a 31" design. It seems they discovered a spoke resonance issue with the 29" wheel size at certain speeds. Start melting down the 29"'ers!


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## eccentricbottombracket (Nov 13, 2006)

Pinarello Montello. Circa 1989. Its a subtle metallic light blue with chromed stays and chromed fork. Columbus SLX Tubing. Helical splines in the butted tubes, lugged frame with internally routed rear brake cable. 

I still have the original Athena Gruppo, complete with downtube shifters, Maillard freewheel, toeclips and Campagnolo toestraps(grey leather straps that have plastic ends empossed with Campagnolo).

You will NEVER see this on ebay. It will go to my grave with me.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

mine is around 95. i have ridden it off road w/ 700/23 slick tires! it takes everyhitng i throw at it. how can something be so steep, short and yet so comfortable and stable?


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## eccentricbottombracket (Nov 13, 2006)

700x23 wheels off road? Don't crack those rims. They will be vintage someday.

It's amazing how tough those thin tubed frames can be. I look at my singlespeed setup, which is 853 tubing. Not much different in diameter from road tubing. The downtube is bigger, and the stays are a little fatter near the bottom bracket, but pencil thin at the dropouts, just like on my old roadbike. 

I used to ride a Kona Explosif rigid, back in 1992. I FLEW down the trails on that thing (with shitty Dia Comp 987 brakes-older and wiser now). Considering the stresses on that thin steel tubing, it's amazing that it survived the punishment. Mind you it had a huge 2.3 front tire.


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