# G-reg Build Thread



## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

I started updating a few of my threads and decided to be lazy and consolidate further projects into a single thread.

Previous threads:
#1 "The North Fargo" (Retired)
#2 "Numberrr Two" (Retired, but functional)
#3 "650Brunette"  (Retired, out of spite)
#4 "Husky" (Active)
#5 "Knardgo" (Active)
#6 "650B.A."  (Retired)
#7 "Vino" (Active)
#8 "Boxus" (Active)
#9 "Wentzmuter" (Active)
#10 36er (In the Jig)

Future builds / queue 
Fat Bike for 4yo (soon to buy things from Webcyclery, and Magura)
"650B.A 2" (new XC bike for O'14)
"Roadster" (road bike with discs, tapered carpetfibre fork,)
"Grouch Cross" (cross bike with lugs, tubs, Paul racers, stainless things?....)

And to get things kicked off:

I thought there was a BikeCad print of #8, either it ran away or I forgot it. But here it is again/at all. Low bb, short stays/front center/fork/HT for a nimble fun bike with big wheels.










Built #8 up for a 12hr race (I was on a 4 person team) with the M985 XTR crank for it's 40t big ring. And found that the M985 has a narrower Qfactor than the SS M960 they replaced. Even with barely 1mm clearance between the crank arms and chain stays there was not enough flex from the Paragon yoke and 7/8in stays for any metal on metal contact even when "giving it everything."










#7 was ridden to 110 solo miles during that same 12hr race. The owner of #12 then ran *only* 31 miles on the following day on the same course as a part of an ultimate-badass endurance series.


















I took a lap on #4 just for the fun of it. No pics of me on #8, but I managed the fastest lap on it.










More #8 pics


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

Bad Ass G-reg!


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

Open the queue, I'd like dibs on #25. It's my lucky number. Also, I want to make a frame bag for the dude's little fat bike!


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

G-reg can you tell my gal pal it's ok to have a lot of bikes? Great cross section of
Twowheelers!


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## TLKD (Mar 29, 2010)

Cool ! The first few frames are so much fun for sure !


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Merry Christmas to Me:

Phil BB wrenches, Abby Crombie/Whip, Paragon paraphernalia










Walt Works 36er fork!










New Direct Mount hanger for the Fatty










Temps got close to above freezing for a few days so the snow got a bit sticky.


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

How do you like the Middleburn crank? Is it square-taper, or the new external bearing style? I'm thinking of buying one for frame #3. Their size seems correctly proportioned for skinny steel tube frames. Aesthetically, I think the carbon X0 cranks on my first frame look ridiculously oversized, juxtaposed against the skinny frame tubes.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

golden boy said:


> How do you like the Middleburn crank? Is it square-taper, or the new external bearing style? I'm thinking of buying one for frame #3. Their size seems correctly proportioned for skinny steel tube frames. Aesthetically, I think the carbon X0 cranks on my first frame look ridiculously oversized, juxtaposed against the skinny frame tubes.


I can't recommend them highly enough. These are square taper RS7s with a DUO spider using a Phil Wood BB MTB Tandems  is the US distributor and they stock pretty much the entire range. IMO of you are not using this set up for a fatbike you've done it wrong. Nothing else out there has any tangible benefit, especially on things with 100mm BB's and giant tires.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Found some parts heavily discounted for my Son's future Fatbike so I pulled the trigger. Going to play with the brazeon direct mounting for the Maguras. The plan is the HS33 will give him a solid brake for little hands without using disc (aka salad shooter).


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## FTMN (May 10, 2010)

G-reg said:


> Found some parts heavily discounted for my Son's future Fatbike...


Where'd you get the rims?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

WebCyclery had them cheap as they are a discontinued model. There are some cool 20in rims that are wider and lighter made by Trialtech, but they are a bit spendy....Even relative to this silly project :thumbsup:

I've started looking for Minis on CL to poach other parts for the build.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Trials bike parts....great idea that should make the perfect fat tire for a munchkin!!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Working on #9 the Belt Drive/Disc/700x42mm studded/fender'd/EBB commuter bike. The future owner has a garage of bike filled with frames cracked at excessive dimples in the chainstays. It's been a challenge to find a gearing/belt length/chainstay dimension/ that will play well within the throw of a 63mm PF30 EBB. There's only so much slack that can be taken up with the EBB, and a narrow window where "big studded" tires will play well with fenders and have clearance with the 55t belt drive chainring. I've nearly got it narrowed down to how I'm going to proceed.



But for the next week prepping for the AH135 trumps most everything else in my life. 

This #9 "Wenzmuter" will be at least done with my workings shortly after the AH. 

To be followed by the 36er because I want to ride it at the Almanzo100....you know, because.

And then the O'14 XC bike. Looking to use a tapered headtube as they exist nowadays from the usual suspects. A bit longer and lower than #6

The "Husky" bike for my Son soon thereafter.

I've got a personal "grouch-cross" bike in mind with tubulars/SS/DM Paul Racers.

And a disc Roadie.

The Que may open for other test-dummies after that.


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

G-reg said:


> Working on #9 the Belt Drive/Disc/700x42mm studded/fender'd/EBB commuter bike. The future owner has a garage of bike filled with frames cracked at excessive dimples in the chainstays. It's been a challenge to find a gearing/belt length/chainstay dimension/ that will play well within the throw of a 63mm PF30 EBB. There's only so much slack that can be taken up with the EBB, and a narrow window where "big studded" tires will play well with fenders and have clearance with the 55t belt drive chainring. I've nearly got it narrowed down to how I'm going to proceed.
> 
> But for the next week prepping for the AH135 trumps most everything else in my life.
> 
> ...


Keep them coming Greg. I enjoy following your work. Can you post more detail pics of your 29+ bike? I love that thing!

Thanks, Wil


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## FTMN (May 10, 2010)

Not framebuilding content, so please forgive me, but this is worth mentioning here since I believe he rode the fat bike he built...

AWESOME JOB AT THE ARROWHEAD 135 GREG!! Lucky 13! That is pretty damn impressive, man. Last time I checked, there were 54 bike DNFs (maybe more, some folks are still out on the course). Temps in the -20s (maybe even -30s?) and windchills in the -50s. CRAZY! Again, nice work, you should be proud!

And to bring this back on topic, how did the bike perform? Any changes you'll make if/when you do the AH135 again?


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

FTMN said:


> Not framebuilding content, so please forgive me, but this is worth mentioning here since I believe he rode the fat bike he built...
> 
> AWESOME JOB AT THE ARROWHEAD 135 GREG!! Lucky 13! That is pretty damn impressive, man. Last time I checked, there were 54 bike DNFs (maybe more, some folks are still out on the course). Temps in the -20s (maybe even -30s?) and windchills in the -50s. CRAZY! Again, nice work, you should be proud!
> 
> And to bring this back on topic, how did the bike perform? Any changes you'll make if/when you do the AH135 again?


+1 there! That is something I long to do, build a frame, build it up and race it! Look forward to hearing about the experience.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks fellas, bike worked great. There were lots of new toys out there this year with carbon this and that.....Had a few "whaddy'a mean you built it" conversations. I used a Surly Bud tire this year and it really solved my complaints about how the front of the bike handled from last year. The tired surly Larry I had been running was a bit stretched/square on the Clownshoes. The Bud upped the overall diameter a bit and made for a round profile even at fatbike pressures. And is like snow-velcro, so much better a front tire than really anything else available. Other than that I'm really happy with my fitment. 33hrs on a bike, and while my body is pretty pissed off, didn't have any lower back/arm/leg pain. The Pugsley I had before this one left me nearly crippled.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey G;

REALLY super that you were able to engineer out the long term physical limitations like that.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Crappy cell pic of a little progress on #9. Not really much to show so I didn't bother with the real camera. But I've been eyeball-engineering the hell out of this chainstay. The future owner has a few frames that have cracked at or near a crimp in the drive side chainstay. So I'm trying really hard to not crimp the DS-CS, and with a 55t 11mm wide beltdrive chainring hanging out there has become a challenge. If that was the only challenge it would be too easy....So, added to the frey is clearance for studded 700x42 tires, full fenders, 68mm bb, chanstay length within the small window to play with the 55x22 gearing/EBB/available belts. The solution ended up being using the Dedacciai CX prebent stays, not as super bendy as the 29er stays that are so popular. I still had to do a little squeezing/dimpling/bending to make room within the space the tire and chainring were fighting for. But it's a pretty burly stay, so I think the stay will be stiff enough and plenty durable for the intended use. The pic shows poorly, but there's 3-4mm clearance between the ring and CS.

Also in the pic is an added brazeon on the back of the ST for the fender (looks off center, but it's ok). A feature on a current bike the future owner of #9 has, and really makes sense and is a cool place to use a leather washer.


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

G-reg said:


> Crappy cell pic of a little progress on #9. Not really much to show so I didn't bother with the real camera. But I've been eyeball-engineering the hell out of this chainstay. The future owner has a few frames that have cracked at or near a crimp in the drive side chainstay. So I'm trying really hard to not crimp the DS-CS, and with a 55t 11mm wide beltdrive chainring hanging out there has become a challenge. If that was the only challenge it would be too easy....So, added to the frey is clearance for studded 700x42 tires, full fenders, 68mm bb, chanstay length within the small window to play with the 55x22 gearing/EBB/available belts. The solution ended up being using the Dedacciai CX prebent stays, not as super bendy as the 29er stays that are so popular. I still had to do a little squeezing/dimpling/bending to make room within the space the tire and chainring were fighting for. But it's a pretty burly stay, so I think the stay will be stiff enough and plenty durable for the intended use. The pic shows poorly, but there's 3-4mm clearance between the ring and CS.
> 
> Also in the pic is an added brazeon on the back of the ST for the fender (looks off center, but it's ok). A feature on a current bike the future owner of #9 has, and really makes sense and is a cool place to use a leather washer.


You got this! Mark a section on the stay that would be best not there, file a notch vertically in that area and braze a matching (larger) diameter piece of tubing in to give the clearance you need. Make sense?

Keep us posted.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

bikecycology said:


> You got this! Mark a section on the stay that would be best not there, file a notch vertically in that area and braze a matching (larger) diameter piece of tubing in to give the clearance you need. Make sense?
> 
> Keep us posted.


Nope, as I said this guy has at least 2 frames cracked at the dimple for chainring clearance on the DS chainstay. He's a tall guy and a strong rider, hogging out and brazing in a plate in the CS is not the answer for his dedicated SS bike. If I couldn't make it work I would have talked the him out of the beltdrive, we've already talked a ton about the pros-cons-compromises. I can count, using only my hands, the # of times the He's not ridden 12mi one way to work for nearly 15 yrs...In ND. And that was usually due to a scheduling conflict with his Son's sporting events. So this one will get a proper testing.


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

G-reg said:


> Nope, as I said this guy has at least 2 frames cracked at the dimple for chainring clearance on the DS chainstay. He's a tall guy and a strong rider, hogging out and brazing in a plate in the CS is not the answer for his dedicated SS bike. If I couldn't make it work I would have talked the him out of the beltdrive, we've already talked a ton about the pros-cons-compromises. I can count, using only my hands, the # of times the He's not ridden 12mi one way to work for nearly 15 yrs...In ND. And that was usually due to a scheduling conflict with his Son's sporting events. So this one will get a proper testing.


You don't think you maintain strength with a brazed in piece? In my limited understanding of engineering, it seems to me to be at least as strong if not slightly stronger. Nonethless, good to see you getting it figured out. Would've been easier on an MTB with a smaller ring for sure.


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## afwalker (Apr 26, 2012)

The brazed in piece is an interesting suggestion vs a dimple/smash. Wonder how to know which is a longer term solution, hmmm.
FEA analysis anyone? Not to derail op's good work here.
Good idea on the Deda CX stays, I have a couple sets ready to use, and there's a nice variety of bends. Plus those Dedas ride nice, good springy steel.
cheers
andy walker


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

I don't think the chop and fill means of making room for a belt drive ring is a good option. Even if it ends up strong enough to maintain stiffness, I don't think it would be durable enough to live for very long. 

This will work out with minimal dimpling, there were just a bunch of extra variables with this one that had me scratching my head for a little while.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Work and life blow, finally had a chance to catch up on #9. Chainstays tacked, and a quick mockup for one more sanity check. There's enough room for everything, barely. I'm enjoying this beer and the internets for a few more minutes and I'm off to try and get the seatstays cut. Some further racking of the brain on where I can place the Paragon tubing splitter. It's got to be pretty far up the stay, but have to keep it out of the bends and away from where the brace will be.










p.s. ignore the hot rod tire selection...


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

All this talk about belts and BB's in other threads I thought I'd share my meagre progress on my own build.

I cut a seatstay for the tubing splitter *just* wrong :madman: It was the Deddiacciacia "CX" stays, pretty beefy looking, but pretty thin walls where I cut it and the splitter was waaaaay loose. So I had to order a few more stays. Works out for the better though as the replacements are nicer and will complement the rest of the tubing well.

I haven't played with any socket style brazing yet, but thanks to the internets it was pretty easy. Butter up the inside of the stay with flux and cram a coil of silver up there, a bit more flux on the splitter and cram it in there. Into the vise with the splitter on the bottom and the stay and coil of silver on the top. Add fire till the flux gets glassy...and keep it just that hot (but don't you dare overheat it) until you have pulled silver evenly out the bottom.










My cut for the splitter is in the middle of the "S bends." This created problems with keeping both ends in phase and not changing the angle of the bends compared to the other stay. I'd use something like PMW's @ the dropout bolton splitter if I do another belt bike.










Plan is to get the seatstays cut and at least tacked tomorrow. We've FINALLY broken out of winter round these parts, and this bikes whole purpose in live is spring/fall commuting so I'd like to get it on the road soon.

*Edit* I was half hoping I'd need to place my splitter high enough it would interfere with a standard bridge and have to copy Shamrock:









*Edited Edit*

Looking at building a road bike and a CX bike for myself in the near-ish future.

In my head currently is the roadie to be disc braked/Di2/tapered steerer carbon fork/tubeless carbon wheels/etc. And the CX bike to be the "grouch cross" with lugs/Al Campy/Paul Racers/32spoke-3x tubular/etc. But I flip back and forth between which should have the new toys and which should be "old school." After typing this out I feel like the CX bike would be better with the new stuff and the roadie with the throwback build.....


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

Greg,

Not sure if your edited edit was looking for an opinion but I agree with your latter. The CX would feel right at home with all the new and techy stuff and the roadie is the most forgiving it how it is presented.

Anything up new with the Boxus? Have you ridden it much? I know the weather has been against that. Just wondering your plans with that thing.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

bikecycology said:


> Greg,
> Not sure if your edited edit was looking for an opinion but I agree with your latter. The CX would feel right at home with all the new and techy stuff and the roadie is the most forgiving it how it is presented.
> Anything up new with the Boxus? Have you ridden it much? I know the weather has been against that. Just wondering your plans with that thing.


Equal parts thinking out loud and cry for help. I think my 2001 Klein Quantum will get some new parts and give me some miles/hours to think about future road bike fit/goals.

That said I think the cyclocross bike (potentially #13) will be "grouchy." Lugs, DM Paul racers, tubular wheels, etc.

As for #9, it's *functionally* finished.



Slapped it together the new owner can check it out for a bit pre-powdercoat. As with #7, I ensured that the owner had the ABSOLUTE first ride. Some combination of He likes it and not having brakes made for a lengthy maiden voyage. It's now fully fendered with brakes, and will start it's life as a commuter tomorrow morning.

The "GXP kit" works nicely, and I think it would be happy to combine any GXP crank with a "std" 24mm outboard bearing BB.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

#9's owner stopped by on his way home. I was going to tear it down and properly finish polishing it out for it to get powdercoated. But I think he's going to keep riding it for a few weeks, so far a happy customer. Fit is spot on, rides straight and smooth, belt and ebb are silent, how the stay braces were fabbed worked out nicely with the fenders.


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

Way to go Greg! Looks nice. I like how simple that is. Where do you live? Guessing not all that hilly for having a single speed commuter.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

bikecycology said:


> Way to go Greg! Looks nice. I like how simple that is. Where do you live? Guessing not all that hilly for having a single speed commuter.


Eastern North Dakota, "hills" are also known as interstate overpasses.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

G-reg said:


> #9's owner stopped by on his way home. I was going to tear it down and properly finish polishing it out for it to get powdercoated. But I think he's going to keep riding it for a few weeks, so far a happy customer. Fit is spot on, rides straight and smooth, belt and ebb are silent, how the stay braces were fabbed worked out nicely with the fenders.
> 
> View attachment 884370


Greg you did good!! He should have miles of smiles!!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Took #8 out with the Pup to scout the local trails. It's been below freezing again for a day or so, and the unholy muck that is mud around here was nice and frozen. At least this is about as high as the river is going to get this flood season, at it's worst it crests about 25ft above my head where the pic was taken. The family has passed on a nice bit of bronchitis my way, so the quick spin with the dog nearly killed me. I think I'll skip riding anymore for a day or so. Work on the 36er begins in earnest instead!


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

G-reg said:


> Took #8 out with the Pup to scout the local trails. It's been below freezing again for a day or so, and the unholy muck that is mud around here was nice and frozen. At least this is about as high as the river is going to get this flood season, at it's worst it crests about 25ft above my head where the pic was taken. The family has passed on a nice bit of bronchitis my way, so the quick spin with the dog nearly killed me. I think I'll skip riding anymore for a day or so. Work on the 36er begins in earnest instead!
> 
> View attachment 885494
> [/QUOTE
> ...


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

#9 is back for some finish work...And Style Points!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Painted up, reinstall the fenders and it's a sexy commuter.


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

Real nice Greg! That bike looks real slick. No builder markings/logo? Are those TRP mech brakes? Any feedback yet on how they are? I'm considering a set for a bike of mine. Not sure if I want to go with those or the HY/RD hydros.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks
The TRP Mech's are very nice, better than BB7's in many ways. They had something of a recall in early units because they pad could get stuck out when they got too warn. But they feel nice and stiff like a hydro since you aren't bending the rotor to make contact with both pads. And they retract quite a bit so the pads are pretty tolerant of a wonky rotor. I think it's crazy they don't make one for MTB pull levers.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

G-reg nicely done......but we need a pic with the fenders installed also!!!


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## thedudeman (Nov 10, 2006)

G-reg said:


> #9 is back for some finish work...And Style Points!
> 
> View attachment 888617


That is so cool!


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## Meriwether (Jul 26, 2007)

Looks awesome! I really dig how this belt drive turned out. Thanks for the Deda chainstay tip, if it fit with a 55t ring maybe an even smaller dimple for a 46 fitting 40's and fenders. The h20 boss on the back of the seat tube is a great idea for securing the fender!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

*Rando Update*

Crappy cell pick of #9 w/fenders:

Owner is still diggin the ride/fit/belt.









Had the "KnardGo" aka #8 out racing at the Mt Borah Epic. Even Brutally out of shape still managed 87th out of 327 on a SS(yes that's HED's Paul Ellis that finished aHEaD of me).

Still no Powder or Paint, this is what happens after 6hrs on the back of a car driving back from Wisco in the rain...









From my earlier thread:


todwil said:


> Hey Greg I think Im going to attempt one of these next so I have a couple questions? So after almost a year of riding this is there anything you would change? Also did you use the standardish 29er geo or did you make it all fit just the 3.0 tires, such as the BB height, HT angle? It looks like you are using the Krampus fork and that fork has more rake I beleive.
> 
> Thanx
> Todd


Todd,
I started with the Large Krampus Geometry, and changed things from there to suit my fit/preferences. The big one is the fork, it's a Salsa Chromoto suspension corrected 26in fork. The Krampus is designed around a 120mm travel 29er fork, which is waaaaaaay long. This fork allowed me to drop the handlebars quite a bit vs a Krampus without using a super short headtube. The chainstays are quite a bit shorter and the BB lower compared to a Krampus.

If I were to do it over again, I'd go a bit longer/lower on the front and a bit higher on the BB. That would balance things when standing and cranking as you are apt to when SS'n.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Got some color on the #9. It's "Anodized green" over a "Chromelike" base.










I wasn't in love with it when I picked it up to be honest. I wanted a green bike, but did not want it to be so easily assumed to be a Krampus, hence the matte clearcoat. My first thoughts were it looks like a 'Mart bike color", and/or the official color of the Dale Jr. fan club. But now that it's built up and a little dirty it's growing on me. I've got to get out the nice camera, as the point and shoot is struggling with focusing on the "shiny-matte" powdercoat. The "shiny-matte" also _REALLY_ magnifies any metalwork blemishes.

Proving the camera's struggles here's a pic up against what will soon bear the brunt of my learning to TIG/MIG weld, a '70 IH Scout.







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And another with my Medium sized Foundry Tomahawk (I ran out of time to build myself a new XC bike this season). The Tomahawk is really a bit small for me...But #9 has a shorter wheelbase/chainstays/lower BB/Slacker HT....All with the big wheels and seat/bars in the same position.









I love how #9 rides.....I can't stand the CarpetFibre bike


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## golden boy (Oct 29, 2008)

G-reg said:


> I love how #9 rides.....I can't stand the CarpetFibre bike


Do tell. Do you feel there is an inherent difference in ride feel between steel and carbon fiber?


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## whydomylegshurt? (Jul 28, 2004)

Is that an 80 or 800 in the background?


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

golden boy said:


> Do tell. Do you feel there is an inherent difference in ride feel between steel and carbon fiber?


Yeah, carbon is too stiff. Did some experiments related to the fiber orientation magicks that are highly touted by the high end bike industry. The "pliable" directions were still pretty damn stiff.

I find it odd sometimes that I'm trying to make composite bikes after riding many - but never owning any - of them. Well guess what, the ones I make are going to ride soft, I promise, via visibly mechanical means (soft tail).

Just throwing in my two cents, eager to hear G-reg's opinion rather than my butting in.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

golden boy said:


> Do tell. Do you feel there is an inherent difference in ride feel between steel and carbon fiber?


It's not so much the Carbon, but the fit and geometry. I've just gotten really used to fitting myself to a frame and tweaking geometry. Compared to #6, which cracked as you'll recall due to a wimpy seat tube, the Foundry has a higher BB, longer CS, Shorter Front Center, and slacker ST/HT angles. Combine that with the long stem to make up for the short front end it sucks compared to #6 for my trails. Add in the surprisingly contentious customer service for the chronically defective rear hub from a company known as the undisputed _King_ of unquestionable quality and service ......And I hate that bike. I've angered the cycling gods by not riding my own frames and cheating on the cup and cone awesomness that is Shimano Hubs. Look for the frame in the classifieds soon, between the hub and life in general I've F'd away most of the XC events this year already. It's all #9 for the rest of the MTB season.



whydomylegshurt? said:


> Is that an 80 or 800 in the background?


'70 800A, with the not so common AMC 232. LOTS O' rust and previous owners "repairs" to practice with one of them fancy electro-welders.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

I was just getting use to the Patina look.....BUT I like green!!!! Nice.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

PAID SPAM!

In building my 650b Sid WC with an RCT3 damper meant buying a few SIDs. I'm pawning the 29er fork I used in making my 650 franken-fork before RS sold proper 650 lowers. Check the ad, essentially a new SID XX with used lowers for 450.00


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

#8 got me through another Chequamegon 40. I swapped out the Thompson seatpost because of some busted hardware, and the Ritchey Classic that replaced it on short notice has a healthy bit of offset. It leaves me a bit further back than I'd like, but it really didn't bother me too much.

It has be looking/thinking/ruining practice tubing for the 36er getting a seat tube bent that leaves plenty of room for seat post adjustment and doesn't jack too much with the effective seat tube angle.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

#9 update while I'm at it

The owner ticked over 1k of commuting on it a few weeks ago. I don't have a good count on milage/usage of my other frames, but at this pace #9 will have the record fairly soon. I think #4(Fatty) has the title at the moment with easily 3.5k on the clock. #5 (Knardgo) and #7 (Vino) are likely pushing 2k.

Anyway, He's still diggin the ride. He used his roadie or the cx bike we based #9 on during really windy days(it's nice to have gears with a 30mph head/tail wind). Thus far the BB and Belt have been 100% worry free and silent. He's a crazy guy, and as fall/winter is nipping at us here in the great white Nort, he's looking forward to mounting up the 42mm studded tires and riding in some really crappy weather. 









I drove out to Chequemagon this last weekend with the guy so we had 13+hrs of in car BS'n while cruising through states that are bigger than you think they are. One of his stories inspired some conversation from one time when he returned home to find #9 missing from the garage. Turns out his Son just borrowed #9 (over the other 15 bikes in the garage) and it wasn't stolen. But it got us thinking, insurance wise, over how it would be dealt with if taken from his garage. He's got a substantial policy added onto his homeowners, see 15+ other bikes in garage comment, just for bikes. We didn't add any branding or numbering to #9. To us bike dorks it's fairly unique and there's things I can easily identify as my work if it came to that. But he paid cash for materials and I provided my labor in trade for him willing to be a test pilot. So there's no dollar amount on a receipt to reflect what the frame is "worth."

How does an insurance company look at a frame made by a not-for-profit (no tax id/no ins)"Builder?" I suppose at least he would be able to claim the value of the parts. 
Do I come up with an invoice of the costs involved in creating the frame? Would any of it be honored by an insurance co, given I'm not a legit builder? My ethical conundrum is that even being reeeeealy conservative with labor and materials I can get a dollar value that well eclipses what a nice steel frame from a proper builder would cost.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

I would say photograph garage contents and sit down with the insurance company and predetermined a value of cotents this will probably cost you more but if its stolen then you sould recoupe more.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

G-reg said:


> #8 got me through another Chequamegon 40. I swapped out the Thompson seatpost because of some busted hardware, and the Ritchey Classic that replaced it on short notice has a healthy bit of offset. It leaves me a bit further back than I'd like, but it really didn't bother me too much.
> 
> It has be looking/thinking/ruining practice tubing for the 36er getting a seat tube bent that leaves plenty of room for seat post adjustment and doesn't jack too much with the effective seat tube angle.


Bike looks good with some trail grime on'er. 29+'s are taking off there are two more tire options VEE has a tire which is availible now and Maxxis has one coming shortly.

As for the seat tube if you go with an oversized tubed and use a slug you can get a couple inches of adjustment as long as your radius is not to tight.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Hey G-reg I see you updated your first post and now are working on your 36er have you got any pics?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

todwil said:


> Hey G-reg I see you updated your first post and now are working on your 36er have you got any pics?


I'm ever so slowly hacking away at the 36er, getting on a year since I commissioned Walt to build me a fork (which was delivered in a very timely manner). Life and work have conspired to push the 36er project aside early and often. But my goal is to get things mostly finished before the end of October, when I'm leaving for some training in Salt Lake City for a couple of months.

So here's a crappy cellphone pic of where I'm at. I BikeCad'D what I thought I could do. Set up the jig and bent the tubes to see if I could replicate what I designed in BikeCad. No surprise that my bending skills/abilities came up a bit short. So now I've gone back to BikeCad and adjusted my model to represent exactly what I was able to bend, and adjust the angles/measurements as required. So now the jig is set up in it's final position. And I've used the mitre templates to make rough cuts on the tubes. But it's really hard to scribe an accurate centerline on a bent tube, so I can't rely on the the templates too much. Everything is cut long and I'll work it down to proper and square. Thing with the bent tubes is that you introduce a mountain of other variables into the coping at either end of the tube with the slightest change in phase. And if anything is out of phase it will be comically apparent....the entire front triangle is now a S-bend seat stay. :madman:


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

A friend of mine showed me a trick on scribing A line on a bent tube just lay it on afloat surface and drag something square along the inside of the tube and it will scribe it lightly on the center. Bikes looking good!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

todwil said:


> A friend of mine showed me a trick on scribing A line on a bent tube just lay it on afloat surface and drag something square along the inside of the tube and it will scribe it lightly on the center. Bikes looking good!


That makes sense, and kinda what I did. I just don't trust my "flat" surface, or my "square scribe," Too much, enough to get things close, but it's got to be NUTS-ON for all the bendy bits to not show they are out of plane.

In reality as long as the coping is tight the tubes can be super wonky and out of plane, but it explicitly highlights any small compromise by the builder.

The builders that do curved main tubes when they are not a specific design requirement are simply showing off.......

...AND RIGHTLY SO!


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Any updates?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Not really, I found a crack in the seat tube I bent. Didn't buckle/dimple it at all, bad tube maybe. 

I'm gone for some work training soon, and decided to shelf the 36er again. I won't get to a good place to stop, so I'll kill my O/A tanks with some practice and pick up the build when I can follow through with it. 

Silver lining is the training is in Utah and I'm driving there. Which means I'll be able to bring some bikes and get some riding in.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

That sucks do think the crack was there before or do you think the bending process made it go?

YUP Utah has a LOT of great riding spots its one of the prettiest states I have visited!!


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

todwil said:


> Any updates?


 ^^^^^^


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Back home and getting back to things. Starting over with some of my tubes/jig setup, I had made some concessions trying to get it done on a time line. Now I'll be able to take my time, and probably kill a few tanks of gas before getting to welding the frame.


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## bikecycology (Apr 26, 2010)

G-reg said:


> Back home and getting back to things. Starting over with some of my tubes/jig setup, I had made some concessions trying to get it done on a time line. Now I'll be able to take my time, and probably kill a few tanks of gas before getting to welding the frame.


Hey, have anything new going on?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Hopefully...haven't had the time recently. But in the next couple of weeks I hope to have a bicycle shaped object.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Progress!....from last week.









I was saving the update hoping to be further along by now. Not much done since last week, but it's been too long between updates and I do have something to show.

Found a Shimano Zee 83mm spindle crank for 40.00, was hoping to come across something like this and am pleasantly surprised to have actually found it.

Still doing the BikeCad/eyeball engineering as to if there are any prebent chainstays that will work or if they need to be fabbed up. If a prebent will work I hope to have chainstays by the end of the week, or straight gauge bent ready to be brazed.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Nice to see your back at it looks like good progress cant wait to see a roller. What size tubing are you using for the stays?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

todwil said:


> Nice to see your back at it looks like good progress cant wait to see a roller. What size tubing are you using for the stays?


Looks like I'm going to get away with using Nova "29er" chainstays, just long enough to get the bend in a useful place with the Paragon low riders. I'm still thinking about seatstays, nothing pre-bent is close to being bent in the right place. So the decision is bending some straight gauge or trying to bend the nice straight tapered TT seatstays I've got.










Side note, the owner of #9 has cleaned 3,000mi in mostly crap weather. Only complaint is that one of the BB bearings is a touch crunchy, trying to find out what sealed bearing is used so we can replace it. For how much the Problem Solvers BB costs, the bearings are not all that hot. #8's bb is a little crunchy too, we'll see how easy it is to replace the bearings.










Forgive the dying cellphone pics


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Luv the green rims the bikes looking good.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

What did you end up using home made SS or did you bend up the TT tapered?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

I ended up being able to tweak the bend on some Deda seatstays I had lying around. The rear end is all tacked up, I'll throw the wheel in and do some measuring to make sure everything is straight and finish welding it up. Run to the bike shop to use the 'spensive taps/cutters and I should have a rolling bike tomorrow evening!


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Did your stays land on the top tube or seat tube or both? Cant wait to see pics!


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Seat stays ended up on the seat tube, higher than the top tube. Big sleeve on the seat tube, with the top tube hitting pretty low and the SS hitting high.

I racked my brain and fabrication skills to get some bend in the ST...but still be able to accommodate a decent range of saddle heights. Looked at a bent top tube or hitting the seat tube really low with a brace. But decided to just go with the straight, lowish at the ST-TT, if the standover height is 5in above what works for a shorty....I've stopped on going down the path of complicating and compromising the entire front triangle for an inch of standover clearance.

What have you 36er Vets done for tubes/tubeless? I tried getting them set up tubeless, but failed. And I have a pretty solid bag of tricks for ghetto tubeless, but still failed. I've a set of 29er tubes stretched excessively so I could ride around the block and maybe set the bead/casing enough I can make it work tubeless. The combination of the wire bead tires and the shape of the rims make it a real challenge.

First official ride around the block =  Don't know what I was expecting really, but I have to admit it's a touch disappointing how nice it rides. It looks so ridiculous...but in the cruising around it feels totally benign.

Only Pic before my cell phone died....


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

The top tube stand over height is a toughie because it has to rise quickly to clear the front tire so to really get a decent stand over the TT needs a large drop or a big bent tube. As for tubeless tap and rubber automotive valve stems they pop right in then pull
The core and hit it with air straight from the air hose coupler that usually works some times if the tire is to collapsed I over inflate a tube and put it in the tire and lay it in the sun for a couple of days to open the beads so they will lay closer to the rim lip

O and I think you did a fine job on your 3 foot wheeled monster...........Welcome to the Circus!

I think you will see....a....feel the difference once you hit the trails.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Any more ride report on your three footer?


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Finished some brazeons and received some parts to get it built up, next on the build list is another XC frame to replace the Foundry I've been using










My only worry so far is that the rear end is pretty flexy. Between the huge wheel, long stays, and super low gearing you can noticeably get the tire moving laterally within the stays.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Finished #11 on Friday morning, drove out to Medora that afternoon. And raced the MDH50 on Saturday, first ride outside of the driveway.

I had signed up for the 100 but dropped down to the 50 because I wasn't feeling up to it, and I've already ticked the 100 off my list. I managed to hang in about 5th place until the last 10miles, and the heat finally caught up to me and I crumbled. Gave up some time to a few others that weren't as shelled as I was in the last section, held onto 8th.

#11 was tailored for longer endurance events.









Low BB, though higher than some of my other frames.

Long front triangle/short stem. Kept the TT fairly high so I could have 2 water bottles and the framebag. I hate riding with camelbacks, hell I don't even like things in my jersey pockets. So I try and keep everything on the bike if possible.

Used Nova's bent DT more to get closer to a clean 90deg cope at the headtube for strength.

Pretty short rear end, the long front end and steep ST angle keep the weight distribution in line.

Relatively steep effective ST angle, but I bent the ST so that long carbon seat post was cantilevered out over the rear end. It really did work well! The MDH is definitely a dual suspension 29er type coarse, but the half-assed softride post really took the sting out of the choppier stuff.









Kept a 2x10 drivetrain, more for the top end than the granny side of the range.









Part of the mix and match XTR kit I have going on is the new side swing m9000 FD. My god it works well, very low effort at the lever and shifts as quickly as the rear does. If you aren't 1x, this is the only FD to use.









Continuing the XTR mashup, I used an old (M965) caliper in the rear. A pain to set up and you need a tab facing tool. But is a clean setup without a huge post mount or adapters.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

Greg

Good report, I follow the short rear end, long front, steep ST mantra, so was interested to hear how you found it, competition reveals lots about design. That new Front derailleur sounds interesting.

Eric


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

I love that, build it on Friday race it on Saturday!!......Nice


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