# V10 Shock Debate



## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Vivid Air or Fox DHX RC4?


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## phyco ref (Jun 12, 2010)

Why not CCDB, or BOS Stoy? I have a RC4 on my V10, seems to run pretty well, but I haven't tried any others.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

'Cus they don't come standard on a "complete" V10. Going custom adds to the already exhorbitant price tag.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

CCDB....you will never look back....pay the extra cash for it....you will thank me


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## genemk (Sep 15, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> CCDB....you will never look back....pay the extra cash for it....you will thank me


What he said ^^^

Just got a CCDB and love it. My buddy also upgraded recently from an RC4 and is really stoked. I'm a fan of coil shocks in general though for DH so would probably go RC4 over the air shock, but I think a CCDB, Elka, etc. would be better if you can sort that out.


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## illnotsick (Mar 28, 2011)

Vivid air. Feels like magic.


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## Duece (Apr 18, 2010)

Vivid Air!


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

elastomers for life!!!!










that said, i am the proud owner of a CCDB...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

illnotsick said:


> Vivid air. Feels like magic.


coil is always better then air...and CCDB is better then pretty much every other coil shock


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## chillindrdude (Jan 21, 2004)

vivid air, virtually indistinguishable performance from my RC4.

my v10c came with the RC4. after a half season of racing and riding, i came across a "cheap" vivid air. decided, what the hell, to try the Vivid Air R2C. lost about 0.6lbs (from the Ti-sprung RC4) and performance is equal. 

durability wise, hard to say, but i'm kinda anal about my bikes, my suspension gets a rebuild once a season. if you're not one for even routine maintenance, RC4 may be the better route.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

an air shock doesn't belong on a downhill 8 inch travel bike, you dont see them on moto bikes, street bikes, cars, trophy trucks, anything. stick with a coil and go rc4, or upgrade to ccdb. can't beat ohlins engineering


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

csermonet said:


> an air shock doesn't belong on a downhill 8 inch travel bike, you dont see them on moto bikes, street bikes, cars, trophy trucks, anything. stick with a coil and go rc4, or upgrade to ccdb. can't beat ohlins engineering


Whatever. Rode the vivid air for two seasons on a V-10c with no issues what so ever. And yes you are starting to see air shocks on a list of things. I will never run coil again.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

imho go with a ccdb or an rc4. I am currently running a vivid air, It's nice but I also run a ccdb on my delirium and I like the feel of that better than the vivid air. I am playing around with the tuning of the shock but to me it just doesn't feel as good as the ccdb. I was gonna order a ccdb for the podium but decided to give avalanche a try since they have gotten such good feedback.


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

Fox on this bad boyee --- took it outside --_ (for better light) _-- in mid build.... photo sent via cell phone --- blingy photos, from a real camera coming soon. :thumbsup:

just a couple things to shore up with the build:

cut the steer tube
cut the seat post
install rotors // adjust

waiting on Renthal stem.

pedals.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

The air shock works nicely with the travel adjustment.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Pedal Shop said:


> Fox on this bad boyee --- took it outside --_ (for better light) _-- in mid build.... photo sent via cell phone --- blingy photos, from a real camera coming soon. :thumbsup:
> 
> just a couple things to shore up with the build:
> 
> ...


Nice. That's one long-azz seatpost. You gonna take that thing XC riding?


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

brainbckt said:


> Nice. That's one long-azz seatpost. You gonna take that thing XC riding?


ha ha ---- post is right out of the box, needs to be cut.

2012 frame is not open ended at the bottom of the seat tube and there's a big disclaimer sticker on it that reads:_ "Seatpost must be inserted at minimum of 4", less than 4" of seatpost insertion will void the warranty"
_

FYI: 
38.8lbs as is right now -- before cutting off the excess post and we're waiting for a Renthal stem which is, for sure, much lighter than the temporary brick that's on there now.

** l bet an air shock would drop the weight a good 2lbs but the guy buying it wants coil..

l'm on the same boat -- prefer coil for rigs like that V-10


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## chillindrdude (Jan 21, 2004)

it's clearly not yet finished dude


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Pedal Shop said:


> FYI:
> 38.8lbs as is right now -- before cutting off the excess post and we're waiting for a Renthal stem which is, for sure, much lighter than the temporary brick that's on there now.


What size?


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> coil is always better then air...and CCDB is better then pretty much every other coil shock


Unless you ride hard...then the CCDB just blows up constantly.


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## illnotsick (Mar 28, 2011)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> coil is always better then air...and CCDB is better then pretty much every other coil shock


Well since you're so fat and have to run over the max psi :thumbsup:

I have a push tuned dhx 5 and a vivid air that i've tried back to back multiple times on my V10, and the vivid air feels better every time. It's seen full bike park weekends as well and I never noticed a change in performance. There isn't any initial stiction like there is in my world cup either


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Gemini2k05 said:


> Unless you ride hard...then the CCDB just blows up constantly.


maybe yours does, but i guarantee mine has seen some heavy hitting without a single issue...


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## bigb73 (Oct 11, 2007)

I have a Vivid Air on my Nomad and love it. The Vivid Air is over a pound lighter than my Vivid R2C with the steel spring. The price tag on a Vivid Air is a little steep, but whats a little extra $$.


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

csermonet said:


> an air shock doesn't belong on a downhill 8 inch travel bike, you dont see them on moto bikes, street bikes, cars, trophy trucks, anything. stick with a coil and go rc4, or upgrade to ccdb. can't beat ohlins engineering


They have air shocks on helicopters though.... My dad flies search and rescue so I've seen a fair share of hopter chopters and asked about certain parts.

Vivid air is simply amazing. Rode one on a Demo 8 and it felt like i was riding on butter. AIR is better than coil in this instance.

That said CCDB is better than the vivid air from what I've heard.


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## kubo (Sep 20, 2009)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> coil is always better then air...and CCDB is better then pretty much every other coil shock


Just curious... have you tried the vivid air? 
What constitutes "always better"...


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## tuumbaq (Oct 6, 2005)

kubo said:


> What constitutes "always better"...


Air gets harder as its being compressed a coil doesn't = smoother more constant progression.

Air heats up when its being compressed , a coil doesnt.

SImple physic

Coil is ALWAYS > Air.... and yes I have tried the Vivid air.Along with constant reliability issues, it may be good for an air shock but its definitely NOT on par with a coil shock..end of story.

Would a Vivid air be more than enough for the OP...well probably , otherwise he wouldn't need to ask this question.


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## kubo (Sep 20, 2009)

Pedal Shop said:


> Fox on this bad boyee --- took it outside --_ (for better light) _-- in mid build.... photo sent via cell phone --- blingy photos, from a real camera coming soon. :thumbsup:
> 
> just a couple things to shore up with the build:
> 
> ...


Beautiful bike!


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## kubo (Sep 20, 2009)

tuumbaq said:


> Air gets harder as its being compressed a coil doesn't = smoother more constant progression.


Yes it does. Besides I am sure the Vivid thought of this



tuumbaq said:


> Air heats up when its being compressed , a coil doesnt.
> 
> SImple physic


This will also effect the BoostValve (providing low heat generated is causing an issue) on coil shocks.



tuumbaq said:


> Coil is ALWAYS > Air.... and yes I have tried the Vivid air.Along with constant reliability issues, it may be good for an air shock but its definitely NOT on par with a coil shock..end of story.


Also not true. Air shocks will have the same amount maintence as a coil. It will depend on the shock and what you are using it for. The only thing that a coil provides that an air doesn't is the ability to ride down the mountain when it does blow.

I'm not saying that I know better, but if there is a reason why some people are liking the Vivid air more than some of the newer coils in the DH forum then there is probably a good reason for that... 
I have never used a Vivid air personally but I would like to try one out, but when I hear people point what they think of a product it is usually constisted of what they think they know. Not what actually is.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

tuumbaq said:


> Would a Vivid air be more than enough for the OP...well probably , otherwise he wouldn't need to ask this question.


Get a load of Mr. Condescension, here. You know what they say about making assumptions.


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## Frisco43 (Apr 1, 2006)

I've had both on my V10. The vivid air did feel super plush but I just couldn't seem to get the compression as dialed and consistant as the RC4. I weigh about 210lbs so I had to pump up the Vivid air pretty close to it's max pressure. This always makes me a little nervous with shocks. The Vivid air did have one issue where it got stuck in the compressed position but they warrantied it no problem. Adjusting the spring rate via air pressure is a really nice feature. I finally tried the V10 in the 8 inch mode and it really does ride better with a 50lb lighter spring (as recommended by SC). I don't think swapping out springs is a big deal but I guess it might be if you are someone who goes back and forth between travel settings frequently.


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## chillindrdude (Jan 21, 2004)

tuumbaq said:


> Air gets harder as its being compressed a coil doesn't = smoother more constant progression.


this is kinda a nebulous statement, with half-truths, and begs for correction.
F= -kX...this is the simple physics equation governing springs. That number printed on your spring, is related to 'k', the "spring constant", x is distance. So by simple math, the force required to compress the spring is linear. If you graphed this out, it would be a straight line. This is not "progression" which would imply force would increase not in a constant proportion to distance.

an AIR spring can be designed (by addition of a negative chamber and valving) to have a linear, progressive, or regressive response. In that regard, it can be more versatile and adaptable to various suspension designs.

The shock is just ONE component of how your bike feels while riding. I think another big influence depends on the type of frame suspension design (FSR, VPP, single pivot, dw-link).

I think the rationale for use of an air shock on VPP bike makes sense to me. The VPP curve is regressive initially. Purposefully so, such that you "sink" right to Sag height just before the curve ramps up again. This also helps to break that initial stiction of an air shock (due to more/tighter seals).



tuumbaq said:


> Air heats up when its being compressed , a coil doesnt.


true, but SRAM came up with the thermoplastic rod (hot rod) to address this issue.
And i argue, to the average rider, riding a typical 10-15min downhill, probably can't feel the changes that "heat" build up causes.

and just for education, the heat doesn't mess with the air spring rate, but it heats up the damper fluid (typically oil) altering its viscosity and thusly decreasing compression or rebound dynamically.



tuumbaq said:


> Coil is ALWAYS > Air.... and yes I have tried the Vivid air.Along with constant reliability issues, it may be good for an air shock but its definitely NOT on par with a coil shock..end of story.


like i said, performance is on par with coil (at least with the VPP design). reliability is yet to be seen (as i've seen a couple of blown RC4s). more maintenance? definitely, for the air spring. but a worthwhile tradeoff for the weight savings.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

Moosey said:


> They have air shocks on helicopters though.... My dad flies search and rescue so I've seen a fair share of hopter chopters and asked about certain parts.
> 
> Vivid air is simply amazing. Rode one on a Demo 8 and it felt like i was riding on butter. AIR is better than coil in this instance.
> 
> That said CCDB is better than the vivid air from what I've heard.


and what relevance does a helicopter have to our two wheeled land applications? and the other guy, show me some motorsport application air shocks. air is lame. coil all the way. for example, Formula 1 is the epitome of motorsport, technology, and weight savings. am i correct? do they run air shocks? no, coils on all four corners. do villapoto and barcia and stewart run air shocks on their motorcross bikes? no. do any of the supercross/motocross riders? no. does bj baldwin run air shocks on his trophy truck? no. do any baja class cars/trucks run air shocks? no. besides all that, a coil feels more consistent to me on an 8in bike.


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

brainbckt said:


> What size?


the bike in the photo is a medium


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## chillindrdude (Jan 21, 2004)

air forks are coming to motocross....run for the hills!

i'm speaking way out of my lane here, but i think you dont see air shocks in F1 may be due to specific car rules and i think the shock themselves are structural components of the wheel/pushrod/axle assembly. i also think the forces experienced on a shock in F1 or Baja/trophy truck are multiple orders of magnitude compared to the stresses of a downhill mountain bike. comparing apples to oranges here.


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## Bryguy17 (May 19, 2007)

bickering about air vs. coil aside, 

I've never been done wrong by my RC4 on my V10. it just works, and works very well. plush and awesome through the chunky stuff, and still has a really good 'platform' that makes its playful and easy to ride. took a few tweaks here and there to get the compression to that point, but dead simple otherwise.

I've never ridden a vivid air before, so I can't really comment. I've heard mixed results. I will say that an air shock does require a lot more preventative maintenance to keep it working like new. coil shocks will go on forever and still feel awesome. and up on the mountain, a blown coil shock will still (sketchily) get you down the mountain, but a blown air shock, you're stuck with a bottomed out bike.

just some things to consider. I would just ask yourself whether you think you're actually going to be any faster/better/more cool at school if you have an air shock vs. not. depending on your answer, choose the right shock for you.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> maybe yours does, but i guarantee mine has seen some heavy hitting without a single issue...


Not me. Too gucci fit my tastes. I don't ride that hard either. Just what I've seen fruin others.


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## chillindrdude (Jan 21, 2004)

don't get me wrong, i rode the v10C with the RC4 for a half season, with races thrown in for good measure. felt great, just ate everything up that i thew at it. great mid-stroke support and very tunable. 

the vivid air, after 5 dh sessions now, performs just as good. i can't tell the difference. (i've been riding for 15 years now, Cat2 racer). and the bike loses some weight. 

if you can get the vivid air for nearly the same price as the RC4, i think it's worthwhile, especially if you do some semblance of maintenance on your bikes.


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## irish_sloth (Nov 23, 2007)

Air would be nice, but you can blow them easier, a coil shock will be more hardwearing, an RC4 would be fine... its progressive ideal for the v10


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

Rode today at my local jump trail and played around with the vivid air on my podium. Made some adjustments and now the shock feels way better. Before it blew through travel way too easy and it felt like it absorbed pedal stroke power more than it should have. I weigh ~175Ibs with gear, went from 180 psi to 200 psi. Upped compression from 3 to 4 clicks from softest. Adjusted highspeed rebound to 6 clicks from slowest and set low speed rebound to 3 clicks from slowest. It made the shock much more active on my bike and didn't bottom out once not even on the flat landings. Can't wait to try it on other trails this weekend.


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

csermonet said:


> and what relevance does a helicopter have to our two wheeled land applications? and the other guy, show me some motorsport application air shocks. air is lame. coil all the way. for example, Formula 1 is the epitome of motorsport, technology, and weight savings. am i correct? do they run air shocks? no, coils on all four corners. do villapoto and barcia and stewart run air shocks on their motorcross bikes? no. do any of the supercross/motocross riders? no. does bj baldwin run air shocks on his trophy truck? no. do any baja class cars/trucks run air shocks? no. besides all that, a coil feels more consistent to me on an 8in bike.


you said " you dont see them on moto bikes, street bikes, cars, trophy trucks, anything"

anything would include helicopters. So i was proving your argument wrong. If the military trusts airshocks on helicopters, why not on a DH bike?

Its also unfair to compare all motorsports to a DH bikes air shock. Motorcycles are about 250 lbs. They probably cant make reliable airshocks to support that weight. same with trophy tucks and all that. As far as a 40lbs DH bikes, people have made reliable airshocks. Cam Zink spun a 50 foot drop on a Vivid air, Aggy rides a vivid air on his entourage. Nuff said.

Have you actually ever ridden a Vivid air?


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## drastic. (Nov 22, 2010)

Moosey said:


> you said " you dont see them on moto bikes, street bikes, cars, trophy trucks, anything"
> 
> anything would include helicopters. So i was proving your argument wrong. If the military trusts airshocks on helicopters, why not on a DH bike?
> 
> ...


they cant 'reliably' make airshocks for the weight of a dirtbike, but they can for a helicopter... JUST STOP


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

drastic. said:


> they cant 'reliably' make airshocks for the weight of a dirtbike, but they can for a helicopter... JUST STOP


I'm sorry, i didnt realize i needed to break this down for you...

Yes, there are airshocks on my dads search and rescue helicopter. Only on the rear wheel. I only gets used on landing, and when they tow the copter out to the tarmac out of a hangar. Its very sluggish and every bit of travel gets used. It would never handle whoops and triples though.

HELICOPTERS AND DIRBIKES ARENT USED FOR THE SAME THING! Sure an airshock works well for towing and landing a helicopter, but i would say that it wouldnt work well under constant impacts of whoops and triples and casing rythm sections. they would need to make it faster and smaller to stuff into a dirt bike.

That might help you understand why they dont have any major dirtbike airshocks yet, but they do have on on a helicopter. thanks sir. if you dont understand anything else please let me know so i can kindly explain it to you.


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## myarmisonfire (Mar 28, 2005)

chillindrdude said:


> And i argue, to the average rider, riding a typical 10-15min downhill, probably can't feel the changes that "heat" build up causes.


I can't agree more with this! After a season on my Vivid Air it has been reliable. It works just as well or better than the coil shocks I have ridden in the past. And I have not been able to detect any changes in 'feel' due to heat.


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## drastic. (Nov 22, 2010)

csermonet said:


> moosey your an idiot, the laughing stock of the forums. just stop. suck cam zinks dick some more you ****. just because your god cam zink uses one does mean its the best you moron. its all opinion. and all i did was state my opinion, i like the feel of coil better than i do air. i have a coil shock on my all mountain bike for this reason, as well as my dhr. i cant wait to see your pissy little post after this.


repped.

moosey runs rear brake only and doesnt affect his riding performance. he knows what hes talking about.


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## csermonet (Feb 2, 2009)

moosey your an idiot, the laughing stock of the forums. just stop. suck cam zinks dick some more you ****. just because your god cam zink uses one does mean its the best you moron. its all opinion. and all i did was state my opinion, i like the feel of coil better than i do air. i have a coil shock on my all mountain bike for this reason, as well as my dhr. i cant wait to see your pissy little post after this.


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

Right, I prove the both of you wrong, and this is all you can come up with? Sorry I've been running a front brake for a few months now. Seriously csermonet, this isn't the first argument I have had with you. I thought you woulda leaned by now. Yo still haven't won, and keep coming across as juvenile and stupid. Coming back with dumb 4th grade arguments like "u suck go suck cam zinks dick" just prove this. Go steal some more visor bolts from your "friend" please.

Drastic, repping him for being an idiot makes you look like an idiot too. 

I realize you stated your opinion csermonet. But you said that airshocks don't belong on anything. I just pointed out that they belong on helicopters. Don't make statements like that, and then rage when someone shows you an example of how you're wrong.

I didn't just say "cam zink rides airshocks so everyone should!" I have ridden one and it performed better than my coil. Have you seriously ever ridden a vivid air?

I don't mind being the laughing stock of the forums. I still come across as more educated and mature than you. Oh and I have friends. Friends who I don't steal visor bolts from.

Good day children. 




OP. If you can only get and rc4 or a vivid, my recommendation would be vivid, seeig that I have ridden an rc4 and a vivid. It felt smoother. But, if you can I would go ccdb. I have never ridden one, but everyone raves about them and I would love to ride one soon.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

look there are airshocks on a lot of things...including the chair I sit on right now (think about it)...they just function differently.....Does a shock on a helicopter require the same functionality as a mountain bike...no...how about a trophy truck motorcyle or my chair...each are different so don't bring it up

with that being said.....Moosey- do you think Cam Zink rides a typical air shock (production model) Using pros to prove your point is dumb...I know some race bikes that production they were 10 inches of travel but for races they were specially made to only have 5-8 inches of travel so they would peddle better. Pros have tons of stuff that regular riders don't get plus mechanics servicing them

Reality for most of us: Coil is better then air period. Less maintanance and you don't have to fiddle with it all the time to get it to run perfect.

If you want lose some weight, use on race runs, peddle up hills then down or just have a more pedally bike. then that is the place for an air shock.

but for overall plushness, durability you can't beat a coil over shock (granted you can get some air shocks feeling really great, actually awesome, but to maintain that awesomeness you have to spend more time adjusting, maintance on the air shock to keep it that way)


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

csermonet said:


> an air shock doesn't belong on a downhill 8 inch travel bike, you dont see them on moto bikes, street bikes, cars, trophy trucks, anything. stick with a coil and go rc4, or upgrade to ccdb. can't beat ohlins engineering


Yeah and rigid is the only real mtb. :madman:

The weight of a spring is not as much of an issue on motorized machines.

The tuneability of an air spring is really nice.

I think eventually most stuff will be air. And Carbon, of course.

The new Doublebarrel air looks really good, but I haven't tried it yet.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

with a little luck, ill be able to tell which i find is better.

then ill have tried a CCDB/Bos Stoy/RC4/vivid air/coil vivid on the same frame.

right now i still need to get my CCDB serviced and get bushings sorted, vivid air is one week away.

but have done the parking lot test  on all of them bar the CCDB - the Bos Stoy would be my choice over the vivid coil or air.. it doesnt feel as "nice" as any of the others when you just bounce on it, but i never tried a rear shock that generates as much grip as that vs the others.

Thats my opinion anyways, thats after trying the different shocks , on the same track, same tires, same weekend. 

This testing has been done on a medium mondraker summum.

I traded my stoy for a CCDB though, and hoping its at least on par with the stoy- if not then im getting a stoy RaRe next time.


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## illnotsick (Mar 28, 2011)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> Reality for most of us: Coil is better then air period. Less maintanance and you don't have to fiddle with it all the time to get it to run perfect.
> 
> If you want lose some weight, use on race runs, peddle up hills then down or just have a more pedally bike. then that is the place for an air shock.
> 
> but for overall plushness, durability you can't beat a coil over shock (granted you can get some air shocks feeling really great, actually awesome, but to maintain that awesomeness you have to spend more time adjusting, maintance on the air shock to keep it that way)


:skep:
That's just not true. Here's my experience, in response to your speculation:

I've had my vivid air for a year and have done no maintenance. I still get the same sag with the same psi as I did when it was new. I feel like it ran perfect out of the box. I love that I can change my spring rate to anything I want, it's nice having that adjustability for the different types of trails around. Ending stroke rebound has changed my life. I've never noticed fade or a change in spring rate after multiple full days at northstar. Felt like magic in the morning and felt like magic in the evening. I don't notice any initial stiction like there is in my boxxer worldcup (this could be due to the VPP susp). I plan on rebuilding it in january, whether it feels like it needs it or not.

I had my DHX serviced twice in 3 years, both from the rebound blowing up. I bought the bike used and the shock was already PUSH tuned. It always felt plush. It had less adjustability, I used to get bucked on hard landings but now with ending stroke rebound that doesn't happen. I only had one spring so on some trails it was under/oversprung.

It doesn't feel the same as the coil. It feels BETTER. I don't know if that's because of the difference in rockshox and fox damping though. Oh, and it's a pound lighter.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I like air shocks too. The only thing I find that has to be adjusted it air pressure with temperature changes or leak down. But that is a 2 minute fix. Plus you can play with it to see what you like or works better or if more dampening and less pressure is good or bad for example. 

With springs you would need a support crew and changing out a spring is a lot more hassle than screwing on a pump. Plus most springs jump at 50lb increments, with air you can vary by a couple of pounds at a time to dial in. :thumbsup:

If I was a pro with a team and a mechanic I might run metal but for the lone individual air is pretty nice.


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## Frisco43 (Apr 1, 2006)

I'm interested to know if the Vivid air works better for lighter riders. I had the feeling on my V10 that a little more air would improve the performance of the Vivid air (I did play around with the settings). However, I was so close to the max recommended air pressure that this didn't seem like an option. Any riders weigh over say 205 lbs and like the air over the RC4? I still have my air shock and can't decide whether to keep it or sell it.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I've always recommended that riders over 200lb stick to coil. At 165lb I love my Vivid Air. I run WAY more than the recommended pressure, 230psi.


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## dhtahoe (Mar 18, 2004)

Oh just FYI. EVERY aircraft landing gear is a huge air shock. We just call the oleo struts.


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

Finished the build -- 

We did it trail side then road it --- sorry, no action pics yet.


Just a comment, not really sure why SC is sending it out with a 400lbs rear spring even though we told em the bike was for someone hitting 220lbs on the scale.


We built it up with the 400# spring and was super squishy, way too squishy if you ask me.

We put a 600# spring on it and if you ask me, it was still sorta soft. 

A buddy of ours has an alloy V-10 (small) with a 650# spring and he gets tire/saddle farts all the time even though the shock is set up fine.


l never raced pure DH... super soft tail ends a must have? just wondering why SC would stock a bike with such a soft spring. It's not like you pay extra for a heavier spring.


Right now.... it's really just going to be used for freeride --- it'll spend time at resorts when they open next spring. Dang thing rides like an XC bike. it's sooooooooo nice. 38lbs too.

super sweet feeling ride.

l took it for a quick spin before handing it over to the new owner.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Bumping this thread. So I went with a Vivid Air, and two seasons later, it's blown. Suspension Experts tells me it's almost as expensive to fix as buying a new shock. I have a line on a deal on a CC DBAir, but I'm a little gun shy about air at this point. Also looking at Fox DHX RC4 and DHX RC2. Anyone have experience with the RC2? Can get a new one dirt cheap.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Did you call Rockshox? My 2012 Vivid developed an air leak after a year so they gave me a 2013. A year later that shock leaked oil out of the lower rebound adjuster so they gave me a 2014.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Lelandjt said:


> Did you call Rockshox? My 2012 Vivid developed an air leak after a year so they gave me a 2013. A year later that shock leaked oil out of the lower rebound adjuster so they gave me a 2014.


Might be worth a shot. Thought it would be a tough sell on a 2.5 year old shock.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

brainbckt said:


> Bumping this thread. So I went with a Vivid Air, and two seasons later, it's blown. Suspension Experts tells me it's almost as expensive to fix as buying a new shock. I have a line on a deal on a CC DBAir, but I'm a little gun shy about air at this point. Also looking at Fox DHX RC4 and DHX RC2. Anyone have experience with the RC2? Can get a new one dirt cheap.


Ofcourse it's blown, you ran it for two years without service. CCDB requires service too.

If you're in LA, I can rebuild that bad boy for about 180. That includes the 80 dollar full service kit.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

bing! said:


> Ofcourse it's blown, you ran it for two years without service. CCDB requires service too.


Thanks, that's helpful. It saw 2 seasons, but VERY little ride time.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Even if RS won't give you a new one (it depends on the serial # you give them) they might rebuild it cheaper than the first price you were given. I was surprised they warrantied for an air leak but when they heard my serial # they jumped on it. Maybe there was a run that was notorious for air leaks and they want'em off the market? Go to a bike shop that likes you and have them make the call.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

One can't really tell that with "So I went with a Vivid Air, and two seasons later, it's blown."

If you didnt run it much, then you can get away with a basic air can service kit, which is $ 12.

Amazon.com : RockShox Vivid Air Rear Shock Basic Service Kit : Bike Suspension Service Parts : Sports & Outdoors

That plus some 3 weight oil, tools, a six pack, a CD of Hootie and the Blowfish, you'll be able to rebuild that thing in under 2 hours.

2014 https://www.sram.com/sites/default/...0000004402_rev_c_vivid_air_service_manual.pdf

2011 https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/2011-vivid-air-technical-manual.pdf

If your LBS is telling you that it's going to cost close to $ 600 to rebuild a barely used shock, you need a new LBS.

I've seen people chuck components due to a lost screw. That would be pretty much what youre doing throwing out a shock due to a worn o-ring.

Good luck with whichever way you go.


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Thanks, dude. A couple questions. Can one achieve the same effectiveness by substituting "twelve pack' for "six pack" and "Slayer CD" for "Hootie CD"?


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

brainbckt said:


> Thanks, dude. A couple questions. Can one achieve the same effectiveness by substituting "twelve pack' for "six pack" and "Slayer CD" for "Hootie CD"?


Not possible. Youll have too much fun with Slayer and won't focus on the shock, and instead get drunk on the twelve pack. Doh!

P.S. If you have to send it out, Rockshox will rebuild your shock for much less than the cost of a new one, guaranteed.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

The problem is to replace the main air seal you have to open the damper head and pull the damper shaft. To change the seal between the positive and negative chamber and clean & lube the air can is easy but a lot of people don't want to deal with opening the damper, then setting the ifp, bleeding, and charging it just to fix an air leak. I didn't so I called RS expecting them to tell me to send it in and pay for a factory rebuild. I was surprised to hear them say that they'd send a replacement after they heard my serial number but I guess I had one of the first run of Vivid Airs and the leaking seal was common enough that they were basically recalling them if they had a problem, just like with the early Reverbs.

Does the CCDBa need the damper opened to change the main air seal?


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## brainbckt (Dec 30, 2003)

Assuming they don't replace it for free, I assume a rebuild is going to approach the $200 mark. Meanwhile, I can get a new CCDBa for $325. Not sure I wouldn't be better off just spending the extra $125 on a new shock. 

The shock is stuck halfway into its travel, by the way, so I suspect this won't be a basic rebuild (per bing's note).


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