# Study suggests



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

that eating red meat might not be good for you. Some of us know this but I'm posting for those that may want to read it.

Red Meat Can Be Unhealthy, Study Suggests - Yahoo! News


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## saviour machine (Oct 20, 2004)

AZ.MTNS said:


> that eating red meat might not be good for you. Some of us know this but I'm posting for those that may want to read it.
> 
> Red Meat Can Be Unhealthy, Study Suggests - Yahoo! News


WHATEVER!!!!!!!!! Next year it will cure cancer.


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## nov0798 (Nov 27, 2005)

Study also suggest that mountain biking is dangerous! You may end up paralyzed or dead!


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## Fishermikel (Mar 13, 2012)

Your body needs protein! Your body doesn't need to be starved of protein and it also does not need to be stuffed with processed foods. I feel better, have more energy, and lose weight easier when I stick to mostly single-ingredient foods, good portion size and moderate my total intake.

I'd be willing to bet articles are floating around that say the opposite.


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Fishermikel said:


> Your body needs protein! Your body doesn't need to be starved of protein and it also does not need to be stuffed with processed foods. I feel better, have more energy, and lose weight easier when I stick to mostly single-ingredient foods, good portion size and moderate my total intake.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet articles are floating around that say the opposite.


Yes the body needs protein but there are massive numbers of other foods that contain protein.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Fishermikel said:


> Your body needs protein! Your body doesn't need to be starved of protein and it also does not need to be stuffed with processed foods. I feel better, have more energy, and lose weight easier when I stick to mostly single-ingredient foods, good portion size and moderate my total intake.
> 
> I'd be willing to bet articles are floating around that say the opposite.


Here ya go, just one way to get complete protein in a plant based diet:

Is Quinoa A Complete Protein Food? | LIVESTRONG.COM


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## MX283 (Apr 15, 2010)

Cool! Hopefully people will give up red meat so there will be more available for me!!!

Seriously though, thanks for trying to save my life with your vegetarian/vegan diet advice....not. Since when has this forum become the "vegetarianism will save the world" forum?

I am a meat eater so yes, I disagree with the study. There are way too many variables they didn't account for to make a blanket statement that red meat increases your risk of dying. All humans have a 100% risk of dying. The lead researcher said, "We should move to a more plant-based diet," said lead researcher Dr. Frank Hu, a professor of nutrition and epidemiology at the Harvard School of Public Health. Did he have this opinion before he began his study? Most of the studies you see in the news every few days are complete BS. If you read into how they conduct these studies you will see for yourself.

It sounds like the researchers didn't investigate other variables such as the quality of the meat (grassfed vs. grainfed), the level of exercise of the participants, lifestyle of the participants, or other foods in their diets.

The standard American diet (SAD) is terribly unhealthy. If you remove the meat from the SAD you are still left with an absolutely terrible way of eating, so to simply point the blame at meat is irresponsible and misleading. The SAD, without meat, is still full of GMO's, terrible vegetable oils, gluten, grains, sugar, HFCS, hydrogenated oils, soy, and salt. Out of all of the things I just listed they are going to simply blame red meat?

I'm going to agree with you vegetarians that most meat in the supermarket is of poor quality, full of antibiotics and hormones, and the animals weren't raised in ideal conditions. That's why I don't eat common supermarket meat. 90% of the meat I eat was either raised on a ranch where I work, purchased from friends that raised it on their ranch, or I shot it myself with my rifle, shotgun, or bow. The meat I eat is the highest quality meat available and the animals are raised in the absolute best conditions possible (the cattle and lamb are practically wild).

If you don't agree with factory farming and want to put a stop to it the best thing you can do is NOT stop buying and eating meat, but rather to buy meat from the ranchers that raise their animals the right way. You should support the ranchers that are raising animals on pasture, free from antibiotics and hormones. This will produce more positive change in the meat industry than to simply stop buying meat.

Most vegetarians probably eat more vegetables and are more concerned with their health than those eating the SAD. So if the average vegetarian appears healthier than the average American eating the SAD, does that mean meat is the problem? Vegetarians all say "yes" but someone looking it objectively would say "not so fast." The reality is there are way too many variables to account for that you can't even make a comparison, and you definitely can't say meat is the problem.

It would be nearly impossible to conduct a real study that took all of the variables into account.

Please don't try to point me towards the China Study, and quinoa can suck it in my opinion.

Full disclosure: I eat paleo and work on an organic farm and a cattle ranch.


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## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Or, we could end government subsidies of the cattle industry through sweet heart deals on leases of public land, ridding our public lands of an invasive and highly destructive species, ending the over grazing and destruction to wetlands and riparian habitats and enabling the restoration of once vibrant habitats.


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## saviour machine (Oct 20, 2004)

Well, like It's been said before. I want my protein to come from something with a face,soul and has to be KILLED. (P.E.T.A.)


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## MX283 (Apr 15, 2010)

Here's something interesting to think about for the vegan/vegetarian crowd. What are two things that are of great concern to farmers? Water and pests. There are others as well but these are fairly universal for those in agriculture. For the vegan/vegetarian crowd that choose to eat this way because they don't like killing or exploiting animals and feel it is healthier for the environment then you need a reality check.

Just because you are eating plants doesn't mean that no animals or bugs died in the process of getting your food from the farm to your table. Every farm, organic or not, uses some form of pest control that kills worms, bugs, birds, squirrels, etc. Something was killed and habitat destroyed in order to grow your food.

Conventional farms use synthetic fertilizers made from fossil fuels to fertilize the soil and grow your food. This fertilizer runs off the farm into creeks, rivers, and then the ocean. Ever heard of the dead zone in the gulf of Mexico? The soybeans you are eating were probably grown in the Midwest and that fertilizer is now killing sea life.

Say you eat only organic plants, in which case the farmer didn't use synthetic fertilizer. That only leaves a few options, all of which (to my knowledge) are animal based, such as chicken feathers (or other parts), fish, manure, etc.

Now the farmer has to irrigate his crops because they won't grow on rainfall alone. How do we do this? By building dams on rivers and creating reservoirs, and pumping water out of underground aquifers. The negative impact of dams on fish (think salmon), birds, bears, and other river life is well known.

Live in Socal and drink water? Well the water was probably pumped out of the delta in Norcal and those pumps kill tons of delta smelt every year and wreak havoc on the salmon.

Habitat was destroyed and animals killed in order to bring you your plant based diet. This is reality. Their isn’t much wildlife in a field full of wheat or soybeans, but their was before those crops were planted. If you use holistic range management principals when you graze your cattle you can maintain a balance between livestock and wildlife. Their is no balance of wildlife with row crops.

Just because you are eating plants doesn't mean animals weren't involved in the production of your food (as fertilizer). Don't forget that wildlife habitat was destroyed to grow your plants. Topsoil was lost to put plants on your dinner plate. Vegetarians and vegans are just as guilty of killing animals as those of us that choose to eat meat. The difference is us omnivores are honest with ourselves about it and don't pretend that we don't have blood on our hands like the vegetarian/vegan crowd.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

MX283 said:


> Seriously though, thanks for trying to save my life with your vegetarian/vegan diet advice....not. Since when has this forum become the "vegetarianism will save the world" forum?


Yea, i'm impressed how this forum has become so veggie friendly. Pretty OK by me. MX283, I do not share your opinion on eating, however I want to give you kudos for a very good response and I am impressed by your passionate post without any glaring typos or grammatical errors. This is rare thing and I thought it was worth noting the quality of your post.


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## vuduvgn (Jan 8, 2004)

MX283 said:


> The difference is us omnivores are honest with ourselves about it and don't pretend that we don't have blood on our hands like the vegetarian/vegan crowd.


Correct me if I am wrong bu this is the "Vegetarian Myth" argument, correct? I don't know any vegan or vegetarians who think they are having no impact on animals by living their lives. Automobile tires even contain animal products. Vegan is a "practice" not a result. One can never really be vegan, one only tries to be. I think the only people who turned their lives completely upside down to harm no other living beings were the Jaines and I am sure they were aware of their failures to end suffering.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Nice responses, could have mistaken this for the "Passion" forum. Thanks for keeping it civil. Kudos to all.


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## MX283 (Apr 15, 2010)

Here is an interesting review of the article at the top of this thread. It was written by Mark Sisson who is a meat eater and promotes the primal/paleo diet and lifestyle. It's worth reading, even if you don't agree with his diet and lifestyle.

Turns out I don't have enough posts to share a link. You can search for Marks' Daily Apple and his post "Will Eating Red Meat Kill You?"

Much of what I wrote about in my previous post is similar to the "Vegetarian Myth" argument, but most of it comes from my personal experience working on a farm and a ranch. I don't know how to say this without sounding a bit like an ass, but if you don't have any experience in agriculture, specifically with both plants and animals, then you will be at a disadvantage when it comes to understanding both sides of this debate.

To the guy who made the comment, "I want my protein to come from something with a face,soul and has to be KILLED. (P.E.T.A.)," I would like to say that I agree that animals should be treated ethically. However, I feel that it is perfectly ethical to raise animals for the sole purpose of eating them. I would also say that I believe you can ethically hunt a wild animal (and I do) to harvest the meat from that animal. I realize most of you completely disagree with me on this, which is fine.

I would like to point out real quick my problem with PETA. Like I said above, I agree that animals should be treated ethically, but in my opinion PETA should change their name to PDA (people for the deification of animals). PETA goes way beyond simply trying to make sure animals are treated ethically, and tries to act like they are gods, with needs and desires above that of a human.

Thanks for reading and keeping the debate civil!


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

The study has been pretty well debunked in other science web sites. Flawed methodology, bad statistical analysis, the data does not support the conclusions, et al.

Move along folks. Nothing to see here.

Too bad the media latched onto this one before doing their homework.


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## coachjon (Jun 13, 2007)

Crazy how defensive people get over this issue! 

Do that many meat eaters consume red meat EVERY DAY? There are good things in meat products (protein, amino acids, etc) but there are also things that are not great in large quantities (saturated fat, cholesterol, chemicals/hormones/drugs if said meat is procured from a factory farm). 

I think the point of the study is that maybe people could stand to lay off the red meat a bit, not that everyone in the world needs to become a raw vegan...


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