# 5,74 kilos / 12.6 lbs..



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

my bike currently sits at 5.7 kilos 

BUT

half of the parts are still missing:
rear shifter
grips
cables
front derailleur
pedals
chain
seatpost
saddle
a-head cap+bolt

makes me laugh when i'm looking at the lightest bikes on light-bikes.com....hey, my bike has one of the lightest frames (1029g incl. custom cableguides), tuned SID (1063g), superlight crankset (419g), light wheels (1260g), light tires (Nobby Nic 1,8"= 394g / Ritchey Z-Min WCS 1.9"=368g), Extralite headset (46g)....yet it is already heavier than those bikes even though half of the parts are still missing - INSANE!

anyway - finished the way i started it will be close to 6,8 kilos. with my old and trusty ceramic wheelset and Spinner Aeris fork it should hit the Scale right at 7,1 kilos. not bad for a truly raceable HT.


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## bike_freak (Dec 24, 2003)

Looking good Nino! 

Just wondering, how much do those frames cost? I've seen them round quite abit here, and sure do love them, but i'd imagine they are too $$ for my budget


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

bike_freak said:


> Looking good Nino!
> 
> Just wondering, how much do those frames cost? I've seen them round quite abit here, and sure do love them, but i'd imagine they are too $$ for my budget


 Not Nino, but here (Portugal) they cost 1.980€ !!! And it doesn´t matter if it is the scale 10, 20, 30 or even the team ltd.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*correct - BUT...*



Batas said:


> Not Nino, but here (Portugal) they cost 1.980€ !!! And it doesn´t matter if it is the scale 10, 20, 30 or even the team ltd.


but there is cheaper sources. otherwise i would have a big problem explaining my wife why i need a new bike...


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## Jersey (Sep 14, 2005)

nino said:


> makes me laugh when i'm looking at the lightest bikes on light-bikes.com....hey, my bike has one of the lightest frames (1029g incl. custom cableguides), tuned SID (1063g), superlight crankset (419g), light wheels (1260g), light tires (Nobby Nic 1,8"= 394g / Ritchey Z-Min WCS 1.9"=368g), Extralite headset (46g)....yet it is already heavier than those bikes even though half of the parts are still missing - INSANE!


http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=143759


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

nino said:


> light tires (Nobby Nic 1,8"= 394g


How do you like Nobby Nics? Compared to NBX and Racing Ralphs? Better in front or Rear?

Should order a pair to try...


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Jersey said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=143759


Look at the sub 14 lb bikes though. You have to admit money is no object to these people. Some of those bikes pictured have rear ders and seatposts alone that are over $1000usd! Furthermore, I am guessing much of the weights listed for parts, are correct or are at least could be verifiable, so simply piecing a hypothetical build that light is impressive. The problem is that they are not ridable or at least reliable. Wheels seem to be the big corner cutter but then again maybe they are very light people.

Personally I enjoy looking at those listings even if a Powerarm Pro is depicted instead of a listed Fly Bikes ti crank. It eggs some of us on to build lighter bikes.

Still waiting for some Be alloy parts to appear!  

>Doggy treats for everyone<


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Axe said:


> How do you like Nobby Nics? Compared to NBX and Racing Ralphs? Better in front or Rear?
> 
> Should order a pair to try...


i still haven't tried them. from what magazines say the Nobby Nics have excellent grip everywhere while still beeing very fast. the Racing Ralphs are a big NONO for me. no grip in damp or muddy conditions makes them useless over here. my friends use them and once trails are a tiny little humid they are lost and they really dislike their performance in those conditions. the Nokian NBX on the other hand is faster than the Racing Ralph and grips even in the wet. so far the best tire for me.it's only downside is the excessive wear in rocky conditions which i don't have over here. we will see how these tires compare...


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## Jersey (Sep 14, 2005)

Nino, where do you find Ritchey Z-min tires... theyre not listed on their website...??


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Impressive as always Nino. Looking forward to seeing the finished product.


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

Nice build so far Nino. Can't wait to see the final result. Keep us updated.
What ceramic rims do U use for a light wheelset?


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## MaLóL (Nov 11, 2005)

what an awesome build!!!

just incredible


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## jean-seb (Jan 15, 2004)

nino said:


> makes me laugh when i'm looking at the lightest bikes on light-bikes.com....hey, my bike has one of the lightest frames (1029g incl. custom cableguides), tuned SID (1063g), superlight crankset (419g), light wheels (1260g), light tires (Nobby Nic 1,8"= 394g / Ritchey Z-Min WCS 1.9"=368g), Extralite headset (46g)....yet it is already heavier than those bikes even though half of the parts are still missing - INSANE!


Nice build Nino ! By the way yes it is heavier than the lightest but would you race carbon chainrings or aluminum stem bolts on a MTB or even ride it ? Hahahaa not me ! So that's why I like your bike, it is the lightest rideable bike I would personnally ride !

Great job again !
Have fun riding it when it's done !
Jean-Sebastien


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*no light ceramic rims...*



dennis rides Scott said:


> Nice build so far Nino. Can't wait to see the final result. Keep us updated.
> What ceramic rims do U use for a light wheelset?


there's no light ceramic rims. what i use are Matrix Swami ceramic rims. some older rims i found that come with 28-holes and weigh 425g. Mavic and DT Swiss ceramic rims both have 32 holes only. my old and trusty everyday wheelset weighs 1400g:
Tune Mi 70/Mag 200 hubs (no fancy carbon rear hub)
28+28 DT Aerolite spokes with Al-nippes
Matrix Swami ceramic rims


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*custom cableguides...*

here's some more details for those interested:

the bare Scale LTD frame weighed 1001g (size M, no cableguides,no cantibosses no everything)

including cantibosses it weighed 1012g

now add 17g for the new cableguides i attach. in standard trim the Scale frame asks for loooong, continous housings all over (shift and brake). that would mean 300 cm housings instead of 150cm. so housings alone would add about 100g and ruin any possible weight advantage this nice frame has over my old and trusty '02 scandium frame (1149g incl. cantibosses). standard the Scale has those 3 cableguides under the top tube which weigh 12g. i remove them completely, in those thread-inserts i put some special "fender-bolts" i found in a supermarket. those fit perfect. all i needed to do was making the hole a bit wider on one side to make the cables fit in. then there's the cableguides for the shifting which i had to glue on the frame. 2 on the downtube and one on the chainstay right before the rear derailleur. and fo sure i needed a lower cableguide which i attached under the BB shell. i had to drill a whole and make a thread into the BB shell...no big deal. to find the correct glue i asked the carbon-guys from the swiss SAUBER Formula 1 Team and they gave advise how to do. since it's the shift cables only there's no risk to have glued-on cablestops. i would be a bit scared would it be the brakes. there's much more force to be hold. Heinz Wittmans Scale on light-bikes-has also the brakes glued on...i wouldn't want to ride that way. the guides for my rear brake are nicely threaded into the frame just under the top-tube - perfect!

another point where the Scale frameset has hidden weight is in the bottombrackett. it asks for a e-type derailleur! the lightest ones weigh about 120g (older XTR). but my front derailleur on my scandium frame weighed only 86g....so instead of the e-type derailleur and top-pull my changed cablerouting now also allows the use of the same lightweight Dura-Ace derailleur with bottom-pull. since the seattube has a massive 38mm diameter there is no adapter clamp available for the braze-on roadie derailleur. i will get a B-T-P custom carbon clamp which weighs about 9g only. this way my front derailleur will weigh just 80g.

all the needed parts for the cableguides combined weigh 17g (pictured 19g below but i shortened those fender-bolts some before mounting them). so my frameset actually weighs 1029g in v-brake configuration.

bare Scale LTD Frameset size M (disc): 1001g
bare Scale LTD Frameset size M (V-Brake): 1012g
Scale LTD Frameset size M (Disc, standard cableguides): 1013g
Scale LTD Frameset size M (V-brake/Disc, standard cableguides): 1024g
Scale LTD Frameset size M (V-Brake/Disc, custom cableguides): 1029g


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*more Details....*

then there is that massive 34.9mm seatpost size. there's no real lightweight seatpost available in this size other than the Ritchey WCS Carbon (220g...) or a Schmolke Carbon or AX-Lightness which cost like they were out of gold... 380 Euro/450$ (insane!).

so i opted for a 18g adapter shim and a 31,6/350 New Ultimate seatpost instead (140g uncut), this combo is just about 10-20g heavier than a Schmolke but costs much less than half...

the Scale frameset comes with a semi-integrated FSA headset: 86g
my Extralite Scalehead headset: 46g

just for a comparison:

parts mounted on my "old" scandium frame:
Headset 1-1/8": Extralite 64g
Seatpostclamp 34,9mm: Extralite 12g
front derailleur 34,9mm: Dura-Ace braze-on with adapterclamp 86g
BB: FRM/Ritchey Ti 103mm, square 134g
Seatpost New Ultimate 31,6/280mm: 128g
Total: 424g + 1149g (frameset) = 1573g

Parts on the Scale:
Headset: Extralite Scalehead 46g
Seatpostclamp 38mm: Scott 13g
Front Derailleur : Dura-Ace with B-T-P carbon adapterclamp ca. 80g
BB: FRM/Ritchey Ti 103mm, square 127g (no counterrings.... Loctite)
Seatpost New Ultimate 31,6/330mm + shim: ca. 150g (seatpost needs to be about 4 cm longer because top tube has more slope)
Total: 416g + 1029g (Frameset) = 1445g

after all the Scale will be ca. 128g lighter than the "old" scandium. not really a big step forward especially considering the cost and labour that you need to invest to get the Scale lighter. without modifications it would be about the same weight if not heavier than the '02 scandium frame.


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## bike_freak (Dec 24, 2003)

Nice write-up and nice stuff! I love the attention to detail


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Jersey said:


> Nino, where do you find Ritchey Z-min tires... theyre not listed on their website...??


i saw them at Eurobike this summer and now they were available from the swiss Ritchey distributor. supposedly a "race tire for hardpack" it looks much more like a real MTB tire than all those Maxxlite 310s. i pulled those sub 300g off my wheels before installing these tires so go figure...i wouwln't want to ride my bike with Maxxlites in real dirt! maybe to get an ice cream those are fine but definitley not for the riding i do.

i don't want to build a show bike like the ones on light-bike. with all the light parts i have around the Scale would be about 6,2 kilos but "unrideable"...that's not what i'm looking for. i want it light but still capable of doing all the riding i demand. i'm really a hard charger going down. i like it rough and technical and i don't want my bike to be fragile. tires have to grip, brakes have to have tons of power and i want a fork with damping not just a pogo-stick. those bikes listed have no damping inside the forks...go figure!


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## scapin (Oct 22, 2005)

Compliments Nino, very nice bike (but I don't like Scale). It's true: most of those bikes are only to be shown on internet not for ride them.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

nino said:


> i still haven't tried them. from what magazines say the Nobby Nics have excellent grip everywhere while still beeing very fast. the Racing Ralphs are a big NONO for me. no grip in damp or muddy conditions makes them useless over here. my friends use them and once trails are a tiny little humid they are lost and they really dislike their performance in those conditions. the Nokian NBX on the other hand is faster than the Racing Ralph and grips even in the wet. so far the best tire for me.it's only downside is the excessive wear in rocky conditions which i don't have over here. we will see how these tires compare...


Thanks. Drop a line here if got a chance to compare them to NBX, would you? 

I disagreed with you on Ralphs - in the rear only for me that is, but I guess that's besides the point. I will probably will get Nics for front when I get around it, at least to try... And their foundation, that Nics presumably inherited from RR does roll quite fast and sturdy, so that should be good.

But then indeed, it is pretty much dry around here for most of the time. And I had back luck with NBX durability.


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## eurorider (Feb 15, 2004)

jean-seb said:


> would you race aluminum stem bolts on a MTB or even ride it ?


Not that I recommend it but Sauser doesn't seem too concerned. The bolts are generally larger on a 2-bolt style clamp (which may reduce the chance of failure) and his mechanic probably uses a very accurate torque wrench.


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## jean-seb (Jan 15, 2004)

eurorider said:


> Not that I recommend it but Sauser doesn't seem too concerned. The bolts are generally larger on a 2-bolt style clamp (which may reduce the chance of failure) and his mechanic probably uses a very accurate torque wrench.


It seems like a matter of trust. I would not personally but like Anders (if I recall right) have been trusting alu bolts on his disc calipers without any problems for years. It can also depend on your riding conditions. Thanks for your 2 cents !

Jean-Seb


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## ferny (Sep 18, 2005)

hello nino, great bike!!, are going you to have left of espectaculo and light.I´m very anxious to see the end of your project and you have solved the disadvantages that I him see to the scale frame, as they were the complete covers, and the e-type derallieur. Single one completes thing, please, when you finish it, can you push a photo yours with her in some trail??, that light bikes demonstrates in the trails not in the photos... ok?
And....
By the way, I have seen new bike of iago medin, and low of the 6 kilos... and totally its rideable... and he that demonstrated it with new videos and pics... what do you think?, can you able to do your that demostration? less photos and more action... Thanks and luck, that you had left great bike.
In a few days...my light bike, 7881 gr.alu frame, and ok, for spanish races and maraton circuits....rideable rideable....
byes!!


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## Knut (Jan 12, 2004)

jean-seb said:


> It seems like a matter of trust. I would not personally but like Anders (if I recall right) have been trusting alu bolts on his disc calipers without any problems for years. It can also depend on your riding conditions. Thanks for your 2 cents !
> 
> Jean-Seb


I've been using AL bolts for rotors and calipers for quite some time. Seems like they're strong enough, have not noticed any shearing or other damage.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Knut said:


> I've been using AL bolts for rotors and calipers for quite some time. Seems like they're strong enough, have not noticed any shearing or other damage.


A lot of people alternate Al and Ti bolts on rotor - three each. Seems like a very reasonable strategy.


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## dovid (Apr 8, 2004)

ferny said:


> By the way, I have seen new bike of iago medin, and low of the 6 kilos... and totally its rideable... and he that demonstrated it with new videos and pics... what do you think?,
> byes!!


Were they his pics of riding around town doing jumps? I still think the tires are a bit stupid. Just 'cause the parts don't fail on a jump doesn't mean it's ideal for mtb conditions (I'm not rich enough to be a weightweenie, so I've got no idea about how lightweight parts affect your bike).


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## Juan Speeder (Jan 13, 2005)

nino said:


> I'm really a hard charger going down!


Heh...


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## Pivvay (Aug 19, 2004)

What cranks are those? (Sorry if I missed it above, I looked through a couple times).

FWIW, those ring weights are crazy! My 32t ring on my single speed alone weighs 88.51g!


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## ferny (Sep 18, 2005)

dovid said:


> Were they his pics of riding around town doing jumps? I still think the tires are a bit stupid. Just 'cause the parts don't fail on a jump doesn't mean it's ideal for mtb conditions (I'm not rich enough to be a weightweenie, so I've got no idea about how lightweight parts affect your bike).


yeah, this pics.but iago also has run the spanish championship being 11º in sub-23, 4º in Galicia championship ... with a 7 kg bike.. Nevertheless Nino, says what says, has not even demonstrated nothing.Makes bikes super-light and the resistant ones. Light bikes is pretty in the hall my house, you do not create? he is better to demonstrate what is.no speak to speak, and more photos of those bikes in the country, highways or any land. I insist, if that does not become, the credibility when speaking is null. If the one of iago not for you..and his races , to see that one light bike holds.ok??  
My bike weight 7891 gr, its totally rideable.Im finally of spanish marathon circuit(80 km) finished at 20 in general clas.Finally races or the nacional spanish cahampionship.Madrid circuit...and all days for my training.This is a autentic and rideable light bike...ok?, the other light bikes for 6 kilos its ok for pics and hall of my house.


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## MaLóL (Nov 11, 2005)

i recalla guy that used alu bolts on his stem, i don´t remember his name very well... Molal, Lolma, Malal... 

everyone said he was crazy for that...


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## jean-seb (Jan 15, 2004)

MaLóL said:


> i recalla guy that used alu bolts on his stem, i don´t remember his name very well... Molal, Lolma, Malal...
> 
> everyone said he was crazy for that...


good one !


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## MaLóL (Nov 11, 2005)

eurorider said:


> Not that I recommend it but Sauser doesn't seem too concerned. The bolts are generally larger on a 2-bolt style clamp (which may reduce the chance of failure) and his mechanic probably uses a very accurate torque wrench.


I think using a torque wrench is an ofense for e real pro mechanic, their hands are more than accurate (I mean pro mechanics, not Ullrich brother -lol- )


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## bike_freak (Dec 24, 2003)

MaLóL said:


> I think using a torque wrench is an ofense for e real pro mechanic, their hands are more than accurate (I mean pro mechanics, not Ullrich brother -lol- )


 I disagree with this statement.


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## eurorider (Feb 15, 2004)

MaLóL said:


> I think using a torque wrench is an ofense for e real pro mechanic, their hands are more than accurate (I mean pro mechanics, not Ullrich brother -lol- )


That last part was pretty funny.

Anyways, if I had a good torque wrench, I would use it regardless of my wrenching abilities.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

nino said:


> i still haven't tried them. from what magazines say the Nobby Nics have excellent grip everywhere while still beeing very fast. the Racing Ralphs are a big NONO for me. no grip in damp or muddy conditions makes them useless over here. my friends use them and once trails are a tiny little humid they are lost and they really dislike their performance in those conditions. the Nokian NBX on the other hand is faster than the Racing Ralph and grips even in the wet. so far the best tire for me.it's only downside is the excessive wear in rocky conditions which i don't have over here. we will see how these tires compare...


Yes, I like the NBX Lite too, it's about the same weight as RR (475-480g) and is just that much more of a real allround tyre..have been riding them most of the summer season and even now in winter I think they would be OK. For dry and familiar terrain RR is OK, but beware of the puddles  
NBX gives you an edge when things get rough out there.
Those Nobby Nics look interesting though.. have to check what the exact weight will be at 2.1 (around 500g I'm told) , I don't think they will be any lighter than the NBX Lite which is a 2.0 section tyre.

BTW Nino, that bike looks like it's gonna be a real winner..again. What chainrings are you using, they are very light.


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## Janman (Jun 12, 2004)

eurorider said:


> Not that I recommend it but Sauser doesn't seem too concerned. The bolts are generally larger on a 2-bolt style clamp (which may reduce the chance of failure) and his mechanic probably uses a very accurate torque wrench.


Sorry, but those gold bolts arent aluminium  They are titanium with a nitride coating, his hole olympic bike had those bolts...


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## tim- (Aug 21, 2005)

it's a pair of powerarms i guess.. it looks like it.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Finished....*

well - i finally got my New Ultimate seatpost and was able to complete the bike. i'm happy to see the post got even lighter. it now weighs just 137g (31,6/350). sorry for the crappy pictures but yesterday it was raining and it was already dark when i took the pictures. today weather isn't any better with snow coming down...so it's finished but i won't ride it. there's no need to put it through a 1st outing in snow and mud...

i might change a few parts here and there but i will first try it the way it is shown.

-wheels: i don't trust that much in those 1260g custom Amclassic wheels. i will see if the front Micro hub holds up my riding. i have 28 spokes in the front and 32 in the rear. so at least the rear should be sturdy enough. i usually use ceramic rims because of the added brakepower so i might change these wheels for my old ceramic wheelset (+140g)

-tires: i have no idea how these will perform. at least they are full knobs, unlike the Maxxlites which are just ridiculous. i have mounted skinny tires since over here the terrain is muddy and narrow tires definitely will do better now.

-Spinner Aeris fork. i mounted the SID once again just to be able to compare it to the Spinner which still is in my winterbike. i just noticed the damper starts leaking on my SID so i will fix that and then do a comparison on the trails. the better one will be mounted (and i do believe it will be the 90g heavier Spinner...)

-Cassette: i still use the DA 12-27 but should get a titanium cassette soon. that might drop another 30-40g or so.

here's the actual spec list:
Bottom Bracket: FRM/Ritchey 103mm (square) 127
Brake Levers: Extralite Ultralevers 64
Brakes: Vuelta Mag /tuned 190
Cables: Jagwire/Tune Plastic Housing 90
Cassette: Dura Ace 12-27 180
Chain: KMC X10 SL 237
Crankarms: Storck Powerarms Pro, square 313
Chain rings: 20-32-42 (tuned Sugino CSP 3R) 89
Chainring bolts: Al 13
Crank fixing bolts: FRM Al 14
Derlr (Front): DA + B-T-P Adapter 77
Derlr (Rear): Shimano Dura-ace 10s (SRP Al-Kit) 173
Fork: 01 SID Race (Shaved away Disc-adapter,Ti-Canti Studs) 1063
Frame: 05 Scott Scale, Size M (1001g) incl. changed cableguides 1027
Grips: Scott Foam 22
Handlebar: FRM Web-Bar Carbon (shortened to 520mm) 92
Headset: Extralite Scalehead 46
Headset Spacer: 5mm Carbon 3
Pedals: Eggbeater Triple-Ti ( short axles) 181
Quick Releases: Heylight Ti 35
Seat Binder: Scott 14
Seat: Tune Concorde MTB 62
Seatpost: New Ultimate 31.6/350 (137g) + Adapter shim (18g) 155
Shifters: Shimano XT, tuned 198
Stem: Syntace F-99 Ti (120) 103
Tire (Front) Schwalbe Nobby Nic 1,8" 394
Tire (Rear): Ritchey Z-Min WCS 1,9" 368
Tubes: Eclipse Tubelesskit 220
Wheelset: Amclassic custom 1260
Miscellaneous A-Head Cap+bolt/Grease 20

Total: 6830g / 15,05 lbs


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

*Nice job Nino...*

but on a _*personal*_ level there are a few things i would never use...


Nobby Nic 1.8 - Unless this was used in the rear for a muddy race, That size tire is now too samll for me. I use to use the Mosquito 1.85 and thought it was sweet, until I treid heavier higher volume tires. man what a differnce for the better. I do notice that alot of Euro riders use these smaller tires. Maybe the terrain is suited for them and rider preference. yes they are lighetr, but not an everyday/every option IMO.
 I find it hard to believe that saddle is comfortable on a HT if you site down during any rought stuff. Maybe on a FS... That's just be. I try to stay seated most of the time. Also the price on those saddles...
Maybe the hubs like you said..
Those skewers look too light for my taste... 
Otherwise the build looks pretty solid and still light. That frame does look nice...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> but on a _*personal*_ level there are a few things i would never use...
> 
> 
> Nobby Nic 1.8 - Unless this was used in the rear for a muddy race, That size tire is now too samll for me. I use to use the Mosquito 1.85 and thought it was sweet, until I treid heavier higher volume tires. man what a differnce for the better. I do notice that alot of Euro riders use these smaller tires. Maybe the terrain is suited for them and rider preference. yes they are lighetr, but not an everyday/every option IMO.
> ...


tires:
it's VERY muddy over here therefore these skinny tires which will do better than wide ones.
i ride my "winterbike" regularly right now and it has skinny 32mm/1.25" 28" Ritchey Speedmax tires and no suspension at all. i have no complaints. that's why we have suspension and tubelesskits. the low tire pressure in regular tires makes for better grip and added comfort. if i'm doing fine with the skinny speedmax so these won't be a problem either...

saddle:
all those ultralight saddles might look scary but in fact are very comfortabel. the shell flexes a lot and makes for better cushion than most saddles out there. i have a SLR on my winterbike and find it quite uncomfortable compared to the Concorde which i had mounted just for a comparison.

hubs:
to be seen...

skewers:
the heylights are just titanium bolt-ons. no different than Control-techs, just lighter
you can get them in a 26g Aluminium version too which is suggested for roadbikes only....just like the Tune olympic skewers we see on many light bikes on light-bikes.com.....VERY SCARY if not prohibited on a MTB unless you are looking for major desaster!
i do prefer steel ones though.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

whats the wheelset you're doing there? 

Custom AMClassic wheelset with AMClassic micro front hub and 28h up front? What kinda spokes? Doesn't sound unreasonable, espescailly if you treat your wheels right


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Amclassic wheels...*



bhsavery said:


> whats the wheelset you're doing there?
> 
> Custom AMClassic wheelset with AMClassic micro front hub and 28h up front? What kinda spokes? Doesn't sound unreasonable, espescailly if you treat your wheels right


hubs are 68g Micro front / 205g MTB rear
28 DT Aerolites radially laced in the front
32 DT aerolites 3x in the rear
alloy nippels
AC350 rims

the hubs get used by others too and seem to do reasonably good. however i punish my wheels by going down hills pretty fast. on the other hand i'm a finesse rider and always take smooth lines. no jumps for sure with these rims... we will see.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

Nino, didn't you consider the Shannon 34.9 carbon seatpost?
I know it's not so light, but did you find any real information about it?

Where did you buy the 34.9 shim?

great bike!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Thumbs Up For Carbon Saddles!*



nino said:


> saddle:
> all those ultralight saddles might look scary but in fact are very comfortabel. the shell flexes a lot and makes for better cushion than most saddles out there. i have a SLR on my winterbike and find it quite uncomfortable compared to the Concorde which i had mounted just for a comparison.


I agree whole heartedly. The thin carbon shell flexes and conforms to you. I've been riding them for almost 15 years. Durability can be an issue but comfort level is superbe!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Be Alloy Parts Have Come And Gone Already*

That was an early 90's trend. They're still out there if you're determined to find them.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

STS said:


> Nino, didn't you consider the Shannon 34.9 carbon seatpost?
> I know it's not so light, but did you find any real information about it?
> 
> Where did you buy the 34.9 shim?
> ...


i once measured the shannon at 234g...definitley not acceptable for my bike!
i went to a local mechanic who fabricated a shim for me. but you can get them from Extralite as well.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

nino said:


> i once measured the shannon at 234g...definitley not acceptable for my bike!
> i went to a local mechanic who fabricated a shim for me. but you can get them from Extralite as well.


I will use shims to my Ti USE seatpost later in my future bikes, at least should the shims be circa 80-100mm long.

In POM/Acetal or Delrin, whatever plastic.

I can make ones for me instead to buy them from USE.

Are AM classic rear hubs durable enough for weekend trashing in my Zaskar?


----------



## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Very nice! Incredible weight with ouly a couple of things that would worry me. It makes me revisit the idea of building a light HT. That thing is almost 9 lbs  lighter than my FS bike which I like to think is pretty light.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

nino said:


> tires:
> it's VERY muddy over here therefore these skinny tires which will do better than wide ones.
> i ride my "winterbike" regularly right now and it has skinny 32mm/1.25" 28" Ritchey Speedmax tires and no suspension at all. i have no complaints. that's why we have suspension and tubelesskits. the low tire pressure in regular tires makes for better grip and added comfort. if i'm doing fine with the skinny speedmax so these won't be a problem either...


 Yep, I know it's winter there and can be muddy. But don't use always run skinny tires like that? Again this is just fro me and personal.



> saddle:
> all those ultralight saddles might look scary but in fact are very comfortabel. the shell flexes a lot and makes for better cushion than most saddles out there. i have a SLR on my winterbike and find it quite uncomfortable compared to the Concorde which i had mounted just for a comparison.


 I know that shell can flex, but for me sitting on pure carbon like that is tough and I worry about those seat rails, or lack of..
Again maybe on a nice FS for me...



> skewers:
> the heylights are just titanium bolt-ons. no different than Control-techs, just lighter
> you can get them in a 26g Aluminium version too which is suggested for roadbikes only....just like the Tune olympic skewers we see on many light bikes on light-bikes.com.....VERY SCARY if not prohibited on a MTB unless you are looking for major desaster!
> i do prefer steel ones though.


 I know that. But in I think the CT's are light enough and wonder if the heylighs are as strong. I don't see where they save the grams.
Those other skwers IMO are a joke .

But if someone wants to run them...
I guess it's also competion on my site for everyone to have the lighest bike at all costs....

Again my comments are from a *personal* level. What's light and good for you might now be for me or others and vise versa. A FOX 80RLT is way to heavy for your taste! 

As always good job!


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Incredibly nice, light bike Nino.
It boggles my mind a bit as a friend just got his rigid singlespeed to 15 pounds even and that piece of art has suspension & full gears!  

- Dirt Boy - I think you'll be seeing a new entry on your site for a rigid ss pretty soon!


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

(stnads and applauds) WOW!!!!  

Excellent job, Nino!

So, how about a ride report?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*snow report...*



AndrewTO said:


> (stnads and applauds) WOW!!!!
> 
> Excellent job, Nino!
> 
> So, how about a ride report?


what about an actual snow report?
it rains/snows every other day. all is covered in white but just a tiny little bit.in the night it's frozen, during the day it melts...a perfect mix of snow and mud on the trails. definitely not the way i want to ride this bike the 1st time. that's the conditions i built my winterbike for.

when things get really cold i will go for a ride for sure. i like riding in the snow but it needs to be cold otherwise it's a mess.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

I wish you good luck with the frame.

Just got word from someone who had a crack in his chainstay. Scott Belgium says it was because the rear derailleur slammed against it, and told the poor guy there was no way this could be considered under warranty. They also advised him not to ride with it anymore
The guy has the frame 1 year and only rode with it for 4 months.
They don't even want to do something when he buys a new frame !
needless to say, the guy will not be buying a Scott !
It concerns a Scott Scale LTD
This is outrageous.


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> I wish you good luck with the frame.
> 
> Just got word from someone who had a crack in his chainstay. Scott Belgium says it was because the rear derailleur slammed against it, and told the poor guy there was no way this could be considered under warranty. They also advised him not to ride with it anymore
> The guy has the frame 1 year and only rode with it for 4 months.
> ...


I'm very surprised to hear about bad service from Scott (Belgium).

I bought my first Scott frame in 2000, a Team Issue. The frame had a minor crack at the seatpost in 2004. The frame is replaced within 2 weeks. This frame, the paint came of 2 months ago. This time I could choose between the same frame (Team Issue 2004 model, or paying 350euro extra for a Scale). 2 weeks later I received a Scott Scale. I'm totaly confident in the service of Scott now. Maybe it depends on your dealer, I don't know.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

sounds fishy....
its hard for a rear derailleur to hit the chainstay... let alone "slam" against it. Also doesn't the scale have that metal plate covering most of the rear chainstay/seatstay?


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## eurorider (Feb 15, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> I wish you good luck with the frame.
> 
> Just got word from someone who had a crack in his chainstay. Scott Belgium says it was because the rear derailleur slammed against it, and told the poor guy there was no way this could be considered under warranty. They also advised him not to ride with it anymore
> The guy has the frame 1 year and only rode with it for 4 months.
> ...


That sucks; especially when you pay so much for that frame.

I wonder if Giant would treat their customers in this way


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## ferny (Sep 18, 2005)

, good bike nino, are increible!! big job!!
photos with you ride with yur bike????, test bike??
goob bike and weight.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

bhsavery said:


> sounds fishy....
> its hard for a rear derailleur to hit the chainstay... let alone "slam" against it. Also doesn't the scale have that metal plate covering most of the rear chainstay/seatstay?


I have been asking the guy for some pictures, but things have suddenly gone very quiet.

What I find strange is that the importer refers him to his dealer to work something out.
Looks to me like the world in reverse.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> I have been asking the guy for some pictures, but things have suddenly gone very quiet.


Here are the pictures :

https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4344/img00634ch.jpg
https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9502/img00646zv.jpg

looks indeed serious, but if the rear derailleur caused this???


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> Here are the pictures :
> 
> https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4344/img00634ch.jpg
> https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9502/img00646zv.jpg
> ...


 i dont see how the rear derailleur could have slammed into the chainstay THAT hard even if it can physically reach that part of the stay. MAYBE if he god a big stick caught in the spokes behind the rear derailleur and somehow backed up so the rear dearilleur pushed into the chainstay.

Although he could definitely epoxy a carbon fiber "splint around that and make it rideable.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*minus 7g....*

latest upgrade:
i just got a custom made 38mm carbon seatpost clamp. it weighs just 7g and replaces the standard Scott clamp that weighs 14g.

full specs can be found on light-bikes.com:
http://light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=774


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*1st rides...*

ok, last week i finally went riding. we had very low temperatures (-8 degrees celsius) and nice and dry powder snow. before weather wasn't as cold with trails partly covered in wet snow and mud...not really what i was looking for to put that bike through on the 1st ride. anyway - my friends were amazed to see me riding the Scale under such awful conditions. salted roads up to the trails aren't what i was looking for either but who cares? the bike will be used sooner or later and i really couldn't wait any longer.

so how is it? in one word: the bike rocks!

-the front end feels very light. the light fork,tires and wheels definitely make a difference when compared to the winterbike i used lately.

-tires do a great job in the snow. especially the front Nobby Nic is carving through the snow like you were on rails. the rear is also quite good but lacks a bit of sidegrip. it sure is a dry-hardpack tire and not really at home but so far no big complaints.

-i am positively surprised to see the wheels are holding up and seem stiff enough. i was expecting a soft front wheel but so far no problems.

-brakepower on regular rims at first wasn't all that good. i still used the green swissstop pads i had on my ceramic rims but on the Amclassic rims they didn't do too good. a change for two-coloured (black/orange) Kool Stop pads made all the difference. now i am quite happy with brakepower even out on the trails in deep powder. there sure is a slight hesitation at first whern riding through deep snow but they are doing a good enough job even under such conditions. on dry trails stopping power is awesome.

-shifting is working perfectly. i have a mix'n-match of all kind of parts but shifting is as crisp as it is on my winterbike with XT/XTR! i really liked having the 12-27 cassette again. i like the narrower gaps and really missed them on my winterbike where i have 11-32. needless to say i was 1 minute faster on 35 minutes uphill. i definitely think the gearing has to do with it. well - the bike is also 1.5 kilos lighter than my winterbike but i had the impression the narrower gaps helped me keep up the speeds on the continous uphill sections. i can't wait for the Titanium cassettes i should get.

-i definitelky like the shorter eggbeater spindles. i finally got the shorter ones from CrankBros. (-4mm per side)

-the SID had a leaking damper and felt like a pogo stick especially coming from a stiff unsuspended bike. i already changed the damper and now the excessive bobbing is gone but i might well put the Spinner Aeris as soon as the snow is gone. i never had any complaints with the SID but i rode the Spinner and relally liked it. we will see if the Spinner is worth adding 190g though...

-the Tune Concorde saddle is 10 times more comfortable than the SLR on my winterbike !

right now trails are frozen as yesterday temperatures have gone up considerably making everything melt. now it's cold again and we have frozen trails...i will have to wait for more snow now. no, i won't put 650g Nokian Spikes on it...my friend did and we ended up riding so slow i barely was burning fat...now he converted back to regular tires and the speed is up again. rollingresistance with Spikes is just too big.


----------



## eurorider (Feb 15, 2004)

Congrats on the bike Nino.  

I think the Spinner Aeris will be going on your bike when the good weather arrives


----------



## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> Here are the pictures :
> 
> https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/4344/img00634ch.jpg
> https://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9502/img00646zv.jpg
> ...


It looks like he got into an accident, not a manufacturer's defect. You'd think on such an expencive bike they would have a good crash replacement program.


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

Excellent job, Nino. I own the same frame in XL and ride it with a Pace rigid fork. My bike weighs 8,55kg at the moment. Should be around 8,25 when I installed the Vuelta-brakes and Ultralevers. I definetly have a long way to go! My bike is not realy a weightweenie bike, when I look at your bike


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

Cooooooool! Glad to hear it went well, Nino. Looks like it was fun judging by that big smile. 

Do you think your hubs will take the abuse (concerning bearing seals)? Or was this a ride of impatience and not the bike you'll use with an regular winter riding?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

AndrewTO said:


> Cooooooool! Glad to hear it went well, Nino. Looks like it was fun judging by that big smile.
> 
> Do you think your hubs will take the abuse (concerning bearing seals)? Or was this a ride of impatience and not the bike you'll use with an regular winter riding?


i rode the scale a couple of times now....i really don't care of the snow and water. sooner or later it will be used anyway and right now it can be cleaned in a minute with warm water.almost no dirt. i protect the bike with a "oil"-spray everytime i ride so there is no corrosion. same i do to my winterbike which only gets used in awful weather and still looks good.

i will see how the hubs do. so far no complaints. my friend Andy from Eclipse uses his Amclassic MTB wheels all year long and now also during winter and also has not a single problem.he said since upgrading the freewheel with the new plate provided by Amclassic the freewheel engages better.he didn't have any complaints before but he says it feels more secure now. anyway - i get Amclassic rathe cheap so even if i do have to get replacement it won't cost me an eye....

right now trails are frozen over here. the temperature has gone up about 10 degrees from one day to the other so everything started melting and now it's cool again. you would need spikes right now. i have to wait for more snow to cover the ice.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*ok - latest update...*

latest update:
i finally got my Extralite Ultrabrakes. they should have been here for weeks already like the Ultraterra Ti wheelset but Sergios most used words are "in due settimane" (within two weeks)...

the brakes are really cool and tuned to the max. BUT there are still some titanium padcarriers that i replaced with my own aluminium padcarriers. and the cheap leadpipes (that didn't fit!!) got replaced by those special bits i use since about 2 years now. no noodle and tune plastic housing instead...much lighter and less drag.

at 184,4g these brakes are just 8g lighter than my tuned Vuelta magnesiums.

arm lenght of the Ultrabrakes is 98mm. the Vueltas had 109mm. we will see how they perform. i still haven't had the time to do some real riding. they are on my bike but i had to take care of my boy first and now it0's all dark outside. the return springs seem weak and i still need to adjust the pads as now they squeel like mad...more impressions tomorrow!


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

It will be interesting to hear what you think when you try them out.

Did you get brake "squeal" when you put in ceramic pads? I am getting a lot of squeal with ceramic pads. I have minimized it with a lot of "toe in" but I am about to experiment with doing the opposite "toe out" (This is sometimes recommended for unstop-able squeal situations I think).

One thing I have been wanting to point out/ask about is dealing with the length of the brake arms and mechanical advantage. I am all about this longer arm business despite closer brake pads to the rim (my old bike use old canti levers with V-brakes - very mushy but very powerful) however doesn't it also depend on where you set your brake pad in the brake arm? Higher up equals less power, lower down closer to the pivot equals more power. 

I thought I could save some weight on the pads by switching to the carbon jagwire pads with alloy pieces but looking at the stock weight of both, I don't think there is much to be saved when you factor in the adjustment cones for the jags. The el pads are so light.


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## MaLóL (Nov 11, 2005)

I was the first one on using alu padcarriers, everyone said it was a bad idea.

Now you use them and i can say it´s a bad idea cause you must use a high torque oon them and i broke a few... That´s not a problem on the f99 front bolts though...


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## MaLóL (Nov 11, 2005)

you forgot to mention the added weight because of using longer housings because of not using the noodless, and because if the noodless are not used you´ll need a more open curve at the housing so more housing needed. And more housing is more drag also, isn´t it? and if you use more tune housings in brake cables that means much more drag than with real housings, no?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*remember the short stick?*



MaLÃ³L said:


> you forgot to mention the added weight because of using longer housings because of not using the noodless, and because if the noodless are not used you´ll need a more open curve at the housing so more housing needed. And more housing is more drag also, isn´t it? and if you use more tune housings in brake cables that means much more drag than with real housings, no?


Malol my dear,
by now you should know you ALWAYS get the short end of the stick if you start argueing with me:

you see the pictures i posted? what do you see there? you see the 2 standard leadpipes and rubbers of the Extralite brake weighing about 12g. on the other picture you see my special adapters and a piece of Tune plastic housing to compensate for the longer lenght of housing i need. the most drag in a brake cable comes from the leadpipe...i don't have a leadpipe anymore... the Tune housing is much slicker than regular cables and together with the larger radius this makes for real slick cables. the pic below was taken just to show how it looks. i still haven't finished setting them up. today it is raining hard so no riding will take place today.

so no cheating going on - try next time


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## protocol_droid (Jul 7, 2004)

Man, those brakes are crazy light. That's a fantastic light bike too!!:thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> It will be interesting to hear what you think when you try them out.
> 
> Did you get brake "squeal" when you put in ceramic pads? I am getting a lot of squeal with ceramic pads. I have minimized it with a lot of "toe in" but I am about to experiment with doing the opposite "toe out" (This is sometimes recommended for unstop-able squeal situations I think).
> 
> ...


i just went back to my light Amclassic wheelset so i can use the two-coloured pads that come with the Ultrabrakes. these pads work best on the Amclassic rims. i have monster squeal right now but really haven't adjusted the brakes yet.

there's not that much of adjustemt as far as leverage on a V-brake goes. the pads have to sit in a more or less given psoition according to the rims you use.. it's the overall arm lenght that makes for the leverage. the Vueltas are much longer which usually results in more power. standard lenght of V's is 102mm (XTR or all AVID V-brakes for example).

some tuned Jagwire pads are lighter. stock they weigh 33g which is about what the Extralites weigh. but mine weigh just 24g. but i will keep the stock Extralite pads for now. they look too good


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

That's a nice road bike.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Jayem said:


> That's a nice road bike.


not really - that looks a bit different
http://light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=558

and if you want to argue about certain bikes looking like roadbikes i'll post my motocrosser and call yours a bike for kids...


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

First, congrats Niño! Very light but not a display bike, indeed! Job well done! :thumbsup: 

Then... 

...Guys, would anyone know any online US store that carries Tune products... Been searching on the web for Tune Concorde MTB but what I'm pulling up are UK stores only... Or is it just me, that is, missing something else here..?

BTW, New Ultimate seatpost has a 30.9 version?

Would truly appreciate any help from you, guys.

TIA! 

/Onie


*my area is somewhere in U.S. East Coast


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## MWWH (Mar 9, 2004)

nino said:


> not really - that looks a bit different
> http://light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=558
> 
> and if you want to argue about certain bikes looking like roadbikes i'll post my motocrosser and call yours a bike for kids...


Hey Nino, sorry to swing away from the MTB topic but I was wondering what you thought of your conti supersonics for durability/resistance to punctures. I was tempted to get some for my CR1 but after reading about how they sacrifice puncture resistance for weight I got the GP4000s instead.

I guess there is no simple answer- the roads where I am can be rough, but knocking 60gm of rotating weight right at the outer edge of the wheel is tempting...

BTW nice MTB- it weighs less than my CR1 SL! I cant- or sort of can, imagine how quick that would feel on a MTB
Cheers


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

*Threaded BB*

Nino, can you explain better how did you thread the BB, and did you get the especial clamp for the derraileur?


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

$front derailleur clamp$

http://www.b-t-p.de/B-T-P_Team/b-t-p_team1.html

ARAMID front derailleur Clamb


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> $front derailleur clamp$
> 
> http://www.b-t-p.de/B-T-P_Team/b-t-p_team1.html
> 
> ARAMID front derailleur Clamb


 Cool price!:madman:


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

I am also curious how much on each side of the bb shell you shaved (faced) off. I think you posted this elsewhere Nino but you may as well put it here on your bike page. You kept this aspect of your bike a secret when you originally posted. :madman: 

Maybe discuss any new updates too?

Also report on the hubs?


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Costs more than a front derailleur!!, LMAO...

Another option, you can sometimes find DA fronts in 34.9 on Ebay. I don't think they were standard issue, but came OEM on certain makes. Ultegra is easier to come by.

This guy make a cheap braze on adaptor, but only lists 31.8, you might want to inquire about a 34.9.

http://cgi.ebay.com/31-8mm-Braze-Ad...8543507QQihZ011QQcategoryZ42329QQcmdZViewItem


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Oh... and if you are on a budget, both Shimano and FSA make adapters as well, google them up, $10-$15... The FSA looks to be more lean...

http://fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=261&pid=787


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

I have a Pyramid Brand 34.9 adpater that weighed around 22g. Also about $5 wholsesale.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*some answers...*

-i didn't shave my BB shell at all. it is still 73mm.

-i don't use the BTP clamp anymore as it broke after only 3 months of use. DON'T get that clamp!!! it failed on other bikes as well. really bad quality. i used a shaved 34,9mm aluminium clamp and also have shaved a 34,9 DA 10s front derailleur lately (works with 2 chainrings only!). there's only slight shaving needed on 34,9mm clamps to make them fit on the 38mm diameter seattube of the Scale. a 5 minute job

shown below:
-defective BTP clamp
-shaved 34,9mm clamp (now fits 38mm seattube)
-shaved 34,9mm DA derailleur with alloy bolt


----------



## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Interesting . . . relevant to the original post earlier.

So rereading this thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=217558

You can even use a 68mm bb with the CR1 that normally requires a 73 (and e-type?) - you suggest I do the same with my Scale and still use an e-type but I still don't understand how with the right side spindle deeper inside you won't get interference against the e-plate and crank.

The Ritchey 103mm square taper bb you use on your Scale seems like it would be way too narrow if you only removed the thickness of the e-plate on the right side. I still don't understand.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> Interesting . . . relevant to the original post earlier.
> 
> So rereading this thread:
> 
> ...


i don't have an E-Type derailler !

so i'm basically free to put whatever BB i'd like. i use a square FRM/Ritchey mix with a shortish 103mm axle. the Storck powerarms just pass the BB shell and rear chainstays.

if you still have a E-Type derailleur you sure need a slightly longer axle to make room for that E-Type plate. so 105mm or better 107mm square are needed. with ISIS 108mm roadie lenght might be too short. i had a 108 ISIS when i was using my Race Face cranks during summer but then again i don't have an E-Type plate which needs some space.
so with ISIS you might need a 113mm axle. you'll find detailed Scale-tuningtips in a recent thread. i think it was "lightest 73 BB for scale" or something like that.


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

The CR1 Road bike require a E-Type FD??

Or is that another MTB frame?


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

So far my BTP clamp is working very well. A little hard to mount the first time, but no problems of slipping or cracking.


----------



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Scale!*



DIRT BOY said:


> The CR1 Road bike require a E-Type FD??
> 
> Or is that another MTB frame?


i am always writing about my Scale MTB frame.

Gio,
just check the BTP clamp regularly for cracks! there are several guys who had problems.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> i am always writing about my Scale MTB frame.
> 
> Gio,
> just check the BTP clamp regularly for cracks! there are several guys who had problems.


 Nino, you still didn´t tell how did you made a thread on the bb. Did you use the small hole on the bb, and made a thread past the carbon and into the aluminum?

And what kind of glue did you use for the shift cables stoppers?


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

nino said:


> i am always writing about my Scale MTB frame.


 Nino, slobberdoggy mentioned the CR1, that's why I asked.

Thanks, I will check it. If I paid retail for that clamp, I would not have bought it. It looks too "homemade" if you know what I mean.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Okay, my bad - sorry about the confusion.

On the other thread nino mentions "road" and "roadie" but he was referring to the road kcnc bb.

I screwed up.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

I think this may be the thread he refers to above.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=152013&highlight=lightest+bb+73mm+scott


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Batas said:


> Nino, you still didn´t tell how did you made a thread on the bb. Did you use the small hole on the bb, and made a thread past the carbon and into the aluminum?
> 
> And what kind of glue did you use for the shift cables stoppers?


now i don't understand????

there is no thread on the BB. i guess you mean the hole for the cableguide under the BB shell? there i simply made a hole on the very bottom of the frame. through the carbon into the alloy BB shell. that alloy shell is very thin! take care when making a hole. there is no "meat" for a thread. i also used glue at the bolt which attaches the cableguide. there was just 2 files of thread for that bilt. the alloy BB shell is very thin.

i used ARALDIT 2 component glue for the cablestops.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Yes, I meant the hole for the cableguide. I was just wondering if you used that hole that comes already on the bottom of the BB shell on the scale, and if you made threads on that exact hole... But you just "forced" the bolt to enter correct?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*hole...*



Batas said:


> Yes, I meant the hole for the cableguide. I was just wondering if you used that hole that comes already on the bottom of the BB shell on the scale, and if you made threads on that exact hole... But you just "forced" the bolt to enter correct?


no, i did a new hole and made a thread but with only 2 "files" there's not much hold.therefore i also used some glue.


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## Kriss (Jun 5, 2009)

nino said:


> here's some more details for those interested:
> 
> then there's the cableguides for the shifting which i had to glue on the frame. 2 on the downtube and one on the chainstay right before the rear derailleur. and fo sure i needed a lower cableguide which i attached under the BB shell. i had to drill a whole and make a thread into the BB shell...no big deal. to find the correct glue i asked the carbon-guys from the swiss SAUBER Formula 1 Team and they gave advise how to do. since it's the shift cables only there's no risk to have glued-on cablestops.


I'm planing the same stuff on my scale..
What type of glue did you use?
Have you got any problem with this system?

Kriss


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Kriss said:


> I'm planing the same stuff on my scale..
> What type of glue did you use?
> Have you got any problem with this system?
> 
> Kriss


Hello Kriss,
i used ARALDIT 2-component glue.You need to use rough emery cloth on both sides and degrease all the contact areas well before glueing together the pieces. No problems so far.

BUT today i wouldn't do all that work anymore. I did it back then because i didn't know that you can convert down-pull roadie front derailleurs easily into top-pull using Speen adapters. Today i am using a converted Dura Ace derailleur (80g) on my Winterbike with the standard cable routing. All you save by doing that cablerouting modification is that you have shorter housing lenghts. Since on that bike i was using V-Brakes it was about 150cm of outer housing that i saved so that's worth about 35g using Alligator i-links. But on a disc-equipped bike it's only the shift-housing that is shorter so savings are much less. Therefore i wouldn't do it anymore if i had a disc-frameset.


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## Kriss (Jun 5, 2009)

The plan was to use i link and if I use it the original way on the scale frame I have to use the housing the hole way. If I glue on the stoppers I don't need to.. Are you sure the wightsaving are so minimal? 
What is the lightest way to go with cables on a scale frame without a glue project then?
I almost got all the parts for my lightweight project now, cables and shifting are the only things left..
The plan for shifting are FD 7900 front, xx shifters and red rear with 11-32, but I'm not sure if it will work with 11-32..

Thanks for answering..

Kriss


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## mikesnowdon (Sep 25, 2009)

> ...tuned SID (1063g).....


Nino.

What did you tune on your SID and how much did it save? (I assume you dont simply mean you cut down the steerer when you say you 'tuned' it?)


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Kriss said:


> The plan was to use i link and if I use it the original way on the scale frame I have to use the housing the hole way. If I glue on the stoppers I don't need to.. Are you sure the wightsaving are so minimal?
> What is the lightest way to go with cables on a scale frame without a glue project then?
> I almost got all the parts for my lightweight project now, cables and shifting are the only things left..
> The plan for shifting are FD 7900 front, xx shifters and red rear with 11-32, but I'm not sure if it will work with 11-32..
> ...


I know what your plan was BUT as mentioned do measure the lenght of outer housings you might save! That's about 100-150cm, right? 100cm of i-link outers weigh ca. 23g...now do the math!
Then add the weight of the endstops you need to glue on and the savings get even smaller. That's why i said i wouldn't do it anymore just for shifters alone. If you have V-Brakes ok, since you also would have the housing of the rear brake but on a disc equipped bike it's just a lot of work for minimal saving.If you are looking for the last couple grams go ahead though...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesnowdon said:


> Nino.
> 
> What did you tune on your SID and how much did it save? (I assume you dont simply mean you cut down the steerer when you say you 'tuned' it?)


whoa-that's a long time ago i did that. i just did a search and found my old thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=10111&highlight=sid+project

and after i finished:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=11480&highlight=sid+project

Don't ask me where i found the last 13g.i don't remember anymore...anyway - the threads are so old that the pictures aren't visible anymore so i will post some below:


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## Kriss (Jun 5, 2009)

nino said:


> I know what your plan was BUT as mentioned do measure the lenght of outer housings you might save! That's about 100-150cm, right? 100cm of i-link outers weigh ca. 23g...now do the math!
> Then add the weight of the endstops you need to glue on and the savings get even smaller. That's why i said i wouldn't do it anymore just for shifters alone. If you have V-Brakes ok, since you also would have the housing of the rear brake but on a disc equipped bike it's just a lot of work for minimal saving.If you are looking for the last couple grams go ahead though...


Ok! You're right.. It's to much work for to little..
Will i-link with powercords be the lightest way to go then? Or are there other lighter options?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Kriss said:


> Ok! You're right.. It's to much work for to little..
> Will i-link with powercords be the lightest way to go then? Or are there other lighter options?


At the moment i-links with Powercordz seem to work best. There's also the Yumeya housing which is about 1g lighter per meter but from what we read they don't work as slick with Powercordz.

Anyway - there's new Mini I-Links which weigh only 16g/m.Those seem to be the lightest at the moment but it's hard to locate them at the moment.

But if you care for 10-20g savings the rest of your components must be pretty radical as well. Maybe there's easier ways to save some weight elsewhere?? But your approach is sure correct.First to have a look what's possible and then to re-think and look what really makes sense.


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## Kriss (Jun 5, 2009)

I think I'll wait for more info on the i-link mini then..
It will be a under 6kg bike and the parts will be like this:
Frame: scale rc with tune stubby
Wheelset: race/pillar/extralite
Crankset: clavicula dp with 44/30 extralite
Brakes: formula r1 with scrub or alligator
Fork: ritchey
Seat: tune concorde
Bar: Ax-lightness
Stem: extralite
Headset: extralite
Shifting: Not desided but probably DA7900 front, xx shifters and red if it works with 11-32
QR: tune skyline
Grips: extralite
Cables: Probably i-link/powercords

Not plenty of places to take off some weight..


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Kriss said:


> I think I'll wait for more info on the i-link mini then..
> It will be a under 6kg bike and the parts will be like this:
> Frame: scale rc with tune stubby
> Wheelset: race/pillar/extralite
> ...


sounds very light indeed.

One item i would suggest you change would be the Scalehead headset.I have gone through 3 Extralite headsets in the past! For me they didn't withstand regular offroad use. And seeing your rigid Ritchey fork the headset will get even more of a punishement...it will fail for sure!


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## Kriss (Jun 5, 2009)

nino said:


> sounds very light indeed.
> 
> One item i would suggest you change would be the Scalehead headset.I have gone through 3 Extralite headsets in the past! For me they didn't withstand regular offroad use. And seeing your rigid Ritchey fork the headset will get even more of a punishement...it will fail for sure!


I've used it this summer and so far so good.. Most of the time I use a sid, the ridgid fork is used only in some light tecnical races. When it fails I consider something else then..


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## mikesnowdon (Sep 25, 2009)

Ninio. I'm impressed with what you did with the forks man. Nice one!


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