# Horizontal dropouts and quick release



## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

I just broke my Fisher Rig, so it's time to move parts over to my Simon Bar. I don't have cash for a bolt-on singlespeed rear wheel at the moment, so I'm hoping I can use the same rear wheel from the Rig. It's setup with a quick release. I'm a big guy, 6'4", 220lbs, and I'm pretty sure the quick release alone won't keep the hub properly positioned in the rear facing horizontal dropouts aka track ends. I'm hoping a pair of chaintugs will do the trick. I'm also hoping the chaintugs will be a good reference for positioning the hub so I don't have to reset the disc caliper when I fix a flat. Does anybody have experience with this type of setup?


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## Injun Joe (Jun 16, 2009)

I use a QR on my Jabberwocky with track drop outs. Just make sure they are TIGHT to keep them from slipping.

Also, have a look at ISAR's tugs on this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=540625 They should work great for you and you can open beer bottles with 'em.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

XTR quick release , I.S.A.R. chain tugs .


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## petersbike (Apr 5, 2006)

I just talked to a long time mechanic regarding slippage on track ends using a bolt on wheel. He gave alot of trouble shooting tips. He also said that a good working quick release will give a tighter "grip" than you could ever achieve with a bolt on wheel.
Not exactly sure if this is a fact or not. But I have seen people racing singlespeed cyclocross with quick release wheels and semi to horizontal dropouts (not track ends) and they have had no problems . Also they have no extra retaining devices on their bikes such as Tuggnutts.


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## aka brad (Dec 24, 2003)

I recently did the same thing with a SASS. My new wheel set was a ZTR (Stan's NoTubes) that came with external cam QRs (non-Shimano/Campy). When I tried to use the ZTR QR, the rear wheel would not hold. I switched to a Shimano QR and it seemed to hold, but I did not trust it, so I bought a Surly Tuggnut. Usually you only need one on the drive side. It you use another chain tug, make sure it has an insert for a QR; many have only a hole for an axle. BTW, with a quailty chain tug like a Tuggnut, your rear can not move; it's pretty much 100% reliable, excluding mounting error.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

AZ.MTNS said:


> XTR quick release , I.S.A.R. chain tugs .


Almost the same here... XT skewer and ISAR chain tugs. Before that I used a Surly Tuggnut with a far inferior Novatec skewer.

I weigh 195lbs and am proud to say I was the person to bend one ISAR's chain tugs before the redesign Anyway, been running like this for over a year and neither setup ever slipped for me on the drive side and the Novatec skewer only slipped back once on the disc side. With the stronger and easier to use Shimano skewer, I don't see that sucker going _anywhere_


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## gatman (Jun 10, 2004)

why don't you just put a bolt on axle in your current wheel? I have done that with two wheel sets before I got my current bolt on hub.

It is easy to do and not very expensive.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

gatman said:


> why don't you just put a bolt on axle in your current wheel? I have done that with two wheel sets before I got my current bolt on hub.
> 
> It is easy to do and not very expensive.


I don't think most modern hubs can't be converted. Shimano hubs (except new XT and XTRs) and any other hubs built around a standard threaded axle can easily be converted by switching out the axle for a longer threaded one like this that can accept large nuts. However, most modern cartridge bearings hubs use a solid axle like this that is specific to each hub model because of diameter and bearing stop positions. You can't convert these hubs to a true bolt-on unless the manufacturer makes a replacement axle for that purpose

Unless you were talking about "bolt-on" skewers like this, in which case I have found through personal experience that Shimano QR skewers are just as strong and easier to use. Bolt-on skewers are a good upgrade over many stock external cam skewers though


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## gatman (Jun 10, 2004)

I guess my stuff is too old.


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## octotat (Feb 24, 2009)

petersbike said:


> I just talked to a long time mechanic regarding slippage on track ends using a bolt on wheel. He gave alot of trouble shooting tips. He also said that a good working quick release will give a tighter "grip" than you could ever achieve with a bolt on wheel.
> Not exactly sure if this is a fact or not. But I have seen people racing singlespeed cyclocross with quick release wheels and semi to horizontal dropouts (not track ends) and they have had no problems . Also they have no extra retaining devices on their bikes such as Tuggnutts.


I agree. Shimano QRs, even their cheap ones hold like Hercules. The nutted axle I have on my Motobecane gradually slips over time, even with the tugnut


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## sunset1123 (Apr 28, 2009)

The real issue with a QR is horizontal drop isn't pulling the hub forward, but the disc brake wrenching the hub backwards under heavy braking. Chaintugs will prevent the forward slipping, but aren't going to do a thing about the rearward force from the brake. YMMV, but even after doing what I describe below, I still had to realign the hub and the caliper every couple weeks.

Use an XTR QR (internal cam) and face the area out the dropouts where the axle sits such that there is clean metal there for the QR surface to clamp to. Tighten that QR down to just before the point you are sure it's going to snap. And try not to brake really hard on pavement.


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## ionsmuse (Jul 14, 2005)

My dead cheap Shimano QR seems to hold better, all on it's own, than my bolt on Surly hub. Rim brakes.


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## Ratman (May 13, 2005)

*Bontrager QR*

I started out using the Shimano XT quick release that came with my XT hub with no tug device. It worked pretty well with only very slight slippage. After a few rides with this setup friend suggested that I try these for a better grip:








Well on the 1st ride out, my wheel slipped on the drive side. So I realign the wheel and tighten it down a bit more. The wheel slips again. I tighten again. This goes on for about 1.8 miles until this thing just snaps like a twig. :madmax: :madmax:

After I hiked back to my car I took a ride over to a local bike shop where they sold me a rear Bontrager quick release for $15. So I go back to the trail, line everything up, install the Bontrager QR and finish the ride. I have about 4 short rides (maybe 50 miles total) on the Bontrager QR setup and it has yet to slip. I actually marked both sides of the dropout with a sharpie to make sure it wasn't moving.

I'll probably add a tug device on the drive side (if not both sides) at some point but the Bontrager QR has been rock solid.


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

sunset1123 said:


> The real issue with a QR is horizontal drop isn't pulling the hub forward, but the disc brake wrenching the hub backwards under heavy braking. Chaintugs will prevent the forward slipping, but aren't going to do a thing about the rearward force from the brake. YMMV, but even after doing what I describe below, I still had to realign the hub and the caliper every couple weeks.


That's why more manufacturers' should put the caliper mount on the chain stay, the rotational force pushes the axle up not back then

I had some creaking today and I found I need to crank my KCNC skewers up a bit more as ISARs' chain tug stopped the axle moving but the "loose" QR let it all move under heavy loads and creak slightly


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## farrisw1 (Jul 22, 2009)

I'm using these along with a Tuggnut on the drive side and have had good results with them so far, haven't noticed any slippage yet from the brake side....


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

to the op: you can convert the duster rear hub to bolt on. i have major wheel slip issues with my jabber and dusters until i made the conversion. you need to get the bolt on kit from bontrager/trek. it cost me about 25.


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## Vermont29er (May 27, 2006)

I'm using a BOB trailer quick-release, it's really beefy. The original Bontrager QR is the "external" type that is prone to loosening.

I've been concoting some interesting ideas in my head for stopping the disc side from slipping. I need to take a closer look at how the dropouts and hub interface before I get more specific with that part of the system.


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## Captain_America1976 (Mar 15, 2005)

here is a duster with a bolt on








maybe drill out the bob attachment? 
personally i used the jabberwocky bolts, upgraded bolts, and various skewers all with no luck until i went to the bolt on skewer. up until i upgraded the wheels a few weeks ago they were problem free.


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## Dion (Oct 22, 2009)

I have no problems with this issue on my On-One Inbred. All you need is a set of BMX tensioners and a 3/8" shim (I got mine at the local hardware store and drilled it out for my skewer rod). I fit the shim in the BMX tensioner, add a fender washer and tighten everything up. BTW, I also use tensioners on both sides.


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## Ratman (May 13, 2005)

Dion said:


> I have no problems with this issue on my On-One Inbred. All you need is a set of BMX tensioners and a 3/8" shim (I got mine at the local hardware store and drilled it out for my skewer rod). I fit the shim in the BMX tensioner, add a fender washer and tighten everything up. BTW, I also use tensioners on both sides.


Do you have any pictures of your setup?

Thanks!


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