# nighttime commuting concerns



## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I have been riding to work a lot lately and I would like to make riding to work something I do every day except for extreme weather. as the days have gotten shorter, especially after the daylight savings change, I have to ride home completely in the dark. it's only 3 miles total each way along busy city streets but i don't feel safe on these roads, even when I have my body and my bike lit up like a Christmas tree. anything else I should consider to make my ride home safer? I cannot seem to find an alternative route that does not involve tripling my commute distance.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Please describe what you are currently doing to be seen. My experience has been that I get better behavior at night. 

BrianMc


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

I have a Planet Bike Superflash blinky on the back of my helmet, a red Frog on my seatpost, a Solarforce flashlight on my helmet, a Niterider Minewt 750 on my handlebar, a white Frog wrapped around my front hub and a hi-vis vest on, but my backpack covers a lot of my vest from behind. i HATE riding with a rear rack. I have a bright blue frame.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

I have one of these on my backpack and am happy with it. For some reason it only has a velcro loop on 1 corner, I use those office spring clips for paper to secure it. 
Aardvark Reflective Yield symbol 7x7" with Velcro Strap in Tree Fort Bikes Reflectors (cat699)


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## Lars_D (May 24, 2011)

You have to assume no one can see you. If you can't make the commute safely with that assumption, then your route is unsafe. Sorry.

--Lars


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## junior1210 (Sep 9, 2011)

If at all possible try to time your commute to lulls in traffic patterns. When I go in at night (@19:30) I leave at that time since it's after "rush hour" (such that it is down here), and when I head home if I'm on time it's @ 06:00. If I'm late getting out, I'll wait and have breakfast or read a book for a little while so I'm not riding during peak morning traffic. It stinks having to cool my heels, but it takes a lot of the tension out of commute home.


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## Sanath (Jul 20, 2012)

ziax01 said:


> You have to assume no one can see you. If you can't make the commute safely with that assumption, then your route is unsafe. Sorry.
> 
> --Lars


That sounds a bit extreme.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

mack_turtle said:


> I have to ride home completely in the dark. it's only 3 miles total each way along busy city streets but i don't feel safe on these roads, even when I have my body and my bike lit up like a Christmas tree.


Well I am in the same situation...dark in and dark to home....

I ride about 8 km (short route is 5 km)...

So you could be safer if you rode 9 miles that is 15 km.

Since it takes me about 4 km just to warm up....I would definately consider the longer ride at least some of the time.

Especially if the route is much safer.


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## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

jeffscott said:


> Well I am in the same situation...dark in and dark to home....
> 
> I ride about 8 km (short route is 5 km)...
> 
> ...


I have several routes home.

16 miles is the shortest route. It takes dangerous surface streets. I only take this route if it's after midnight, and I do full speed the entire way home (~20-25 mph).

19 miles is the next shortest. It takes less dangerous options, but is still dangerous. I broke a wheel avoiding a car and ramming a curb at high speed because it is that dangerous. To be safe, I have to descend a 30 mph zoned hill with manhole covers in the middle of the road at over 45 mph or face the prospect of getting rear ended.

The longest route that I use is also the safest. It's 30 miles each way, but it's 27 miles of closed trail. Most of the time I take the 30 mile route home.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Some good info here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/commuting/an...-lights-585603.html?highlight=commuting+light

Mechbegon's posts may be of particular interest.

BrianMc


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

I've used a strobe like this for extra visibility in bad weather. It's meant for kayakers out in the ocean fog or needing rescue. Only blinks every few secs, but it is very bright.

http://shop.vtarmynavy.com/aqua-str...e=googlebase&gclid=CMjg-PvtzLMCFUid4AodAmsAIw


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

consider a taillight that is daylight visible, or nearly so.

A Dinotte, or a Magicshine, or something like that. Pack the lumens. I have found that the Magicshine taillight I added seems to be the single most important component of getting cars to give me space at night.

Also, as much reflective tape as possible. I have a very large area of red on the backs of both of my fenders, and bits around my chainstays. I have bits of white on my fork legs and the fronts of my brake levers. I also have both red and white reflective tape all over my helmet, front, back, and sides. My pack, an Osprey Talon, has reflective bits on it, too, but I like that reflective triangle. Right now, I toss a blackburn blinkie on my pack, but I'm not a fan of how it hangs from the pack. 

In addition to what you are doing, how about describing the route you ride? You say busy city streets but that can be a lot of things. how many lanes? speed limits? are there shoulders or wide lanes? My route is about the same distance and the way I drive is down busy streets more than 3/4 of the way there. however I take a different route when I ride. speed limits are lower (about 2 miles are neighborhood streets where I pass a school and a hospital with 20mph zones), so traffic is lighter, and incidentally, the lanes are much wider even though there's no paint on the roads there. The better route adds about half a mile, but it turns out to be faster because there are fewer lights and stop signs.


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## SlowJoeCrow (Mar 16, 2009)

Emulate the UFO Bike P1220812 | Flickr - Photo Sharing! although you don't need the Klingon name.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*triple it!*

Google map your route, choose bicycle as your form of transportation. Worst case, triple your ride. That would still be only 9 miles.


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## CycleAddict (Aug 8, 2009)

Sounds like you are already very visible. I'd also like to hear more about these roads. If they are too busy/narrow/dangerous to ride then I'd just take the longer route.


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## christopherscott (Oct 31, 2012)

I heard there is a kind of lighting bike lane if anyone knows


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

A lot of good suggestions- hope you`re able to make use of some 
One that didn`t get mentioned above (pretty sure it came up in the thread that BrianMc linked, though) is reflective stuff on moving parts: tape on crank arms, tape on rims if they`re deep or reflectors on the spokes, reflective leg bands and jacket cuffs.

kind of OT for your case, but I think I`m actually more visible lit up at night than I am in the daytime whith so many other distractions. That`s for mostly rural riding, probably different with more lit up stuff around (cars, streetlights, signs, and what-ever else).


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

cjohnson said:


> Google map your route, choose bicycle as your form of transportation. Worst case, triple your ride. That would still be only 9 miles.


tried that. it tells me to take the route I am already taking.

the first half of the trip home is four lanes populated by strip clubs, Ethiopian restaurants full of cabbies, and gay bars. i don't trust the drivers pulling out of those establishments. fortunately, most of it is lit up and there are four lanes. then I have to make a right turn onto a two-lane street with zero shoulder and a wide sidewalk. shortly after that, I have to make a left turn onto a neighborhood street and I have home-free because that last third is easy. there is no traffic light at that last left turn so I have to sit there for several minutes and then sprint across on foot. it's that busy intersection and subsequent stretch of narrow, busy road and that left turn across traffic that freak me out.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Wheel lights/ more side lighting. Bright front blinking light.


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

leeboh said:


> Wheel lights/ more side lighting. Bright front blinking light.


ditto

Plus...

Tires with reflective sidewall.
Reflective tape all over the bike and reflective clothing.


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

I think my ultimate goal is to look like a wayward blazing alien spacecraft riding down the street.


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## scorchedearth (Aug 30, 2011)

Glowsticks in your spokes. Raverbike!


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

bikeCOLORADO said:


> I think my ultimate goal is to look like a wayward blazing alien spacecraft riding down the street.


Oh! You mean like this:

http://img20.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Py7m
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

James Doohan once did a documentary on Dad's farm when I was about 6. So maybe the warp lines of the Enterprise changing to light speed had a bad influence on me as I was a fan from the pilot, on. Or maybe Mel Brooks did it with Spaceball's going to plaid at ludicrous speed. Obviously cloaked Klingon Birds of Prey or Romulan Warbirds were not my models. 

One thing that still amazes me. Is that reflective stuff does not show well in the absence of street lighting or a following vehicle to light them up. (I used a car to light the road at right angles to the bike with the bike dead ahead as it passes in and out of view to or from the left. The camera is aimed to the right like a driver looking in that direction, and at the height of a Ford Ranger driver (higher than sedans, lower than most SUVs). Of course they are only going to stare that way if nothing is coming from the right and they are mesmerized by the UFO. It does let you see what a quick look at amy point would look like.) Note that the cyclist is almost directly in front and only a second away and the speed is in the 16 mph range before the passive stuff does much. With low beam the yellow jacket is not seen.

I also ride under street lights so I have some reflective stuff as it weighs little, maybe as much as a pair of AAA's total.

Drivers share the road most generously. Be advised that very drunk drivers are attracted to flashing lights. So heading to the ditch or a lawn or bunny hopping to a sidewalk may be required. Two flashing lights of even the same make are never in sync for long and the disharmony is very attention getting. Provided they look up from test screens of course. ;(

BrianMc


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

mack_turtle said:


> The first half of the trip home is four lanes populated by strip clubs, Ethiopian restaurants full of cabbies, and gay bars. i don't trust the drivers pulling out of those establishments.


Understandable. Side collisions are the most likely, statistically. More so at night. But there is a data bias because of poor bike lighting, in most collisions. However, throw in alcohol and inattentiveness by drivers. Add in a lot of traffic to block driver's view of you and things can get dicey fast. Though rarer, rear run overs are more deadly. Most are of poorly lit cyclists or 'well lit' drivers. Right and left hooks into such places are also an issue.

Adjusting departure times to avoid traffic peaks, pulling off to let a clump of traffic by, and other tweaks can help but my be of little use to your exact situation.



mack_turtle said:


> Fortunately, most of it is lit up and there are four lanes. then I have to make a right turn onto a two-lane street with zero shoulder and a wide sidewalk.


While illegal most places, if the sidewalk is a good one and little used, it can be the safer if illegal option. However, every driveway and cross street is a very dangerous situation requiring a lot of attention to avoid right and left hooks.



mack_turtle said:


> Shortly after that, I have to make a left turn onto a neighborhood street and I have home-free because that last third is easy. there is no traffic light at that last left turn so I have to sit there for several minutes and then sprint across on foot. it's that busy intersection and subsequent stretch of narrow, busy road and that left turn across traffic that freak me out.


Sitting like a car for a left turn will allow a late responder to hide you from the tailgating driver behind them. Not good. Is there a light further up the road where you can U turn or get turned around another way so it is a right turn?

BrianMc


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## crazylemurboy (Dec 12, 2011)

NateHawk, how well does reflective tape hold up long term? I live in hot & wet central FL and I find that most tape tends to peel back after being wetted and soaked with road debris, and this process continues over time. Eventually I have to remove all the tape and start over. Can you recommend a brand of tape that will avoid this?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I've been commuting in Texas for the past year, where when it rains, there's usually a lot of lightning. I don't ride in that stuff. So my commuter bike has had relatively few wet days. Mostly hot and dry weather.

I bought whatever it was that walmart had in stock in the automotive section and it's been fine for the past year. no signs of peeling. it might have even been the 3m stuff, which is highly regarded.

On my frame, I put electrical tape underneath because the package had warnings about the adhesive being strong enough to peel off paint. elsewhere, however, I didn't bother. I put some on the bare metal of my cranks and on some plastic bits.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

I'll add another vote for a bright taillight such as the Magicshine MJ-818. I got one and am very pleased with it. It is very bright and I use it on my dedicated commuter during daylight and night time rides. Did I say it is bright already? I may get another one or some other taillight with at least .5 watt for use on my other bikes. The Magicshine that I have is sort of a permanent fixture on the dedicated commuter. I have other bikes that I sometimes use and would like a brighter taillight on them when riding at night. In fact, only one has a rear blinkie, but it's such a toy compared to the MJ-818.

As others have said, I'd recommend passive "lighting" such as reflectors and reflective tape and active lighting in the front and rear. Highly recommend something with some serious lumens.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I forgot to mention that I have reflective rims and tires with reflective sidewalls. I also have blinkie spoke lights that spin round and round as I ride. This time of year I ride with reflective velcro straps around my ankles to keep my pants out of the chain, too. But I also wear one on the non drive side since that is the traffic side


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

It was dark. I was driving. A vehicle approached going the other way, I thought it was a motorcycle with those winking headlights used to gain extra attention. It was a bicycle. I was impressed. I do not know what kind of bar light it was, it seemed to be a slow flash, or maybe not really a flash but a pulse to higher power.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

^^Images of the Duchess reflected off cloudcover from Indiana.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ :lol: Yes, I should have known.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ Ha Ha. Very funny. I wish.  Here I was wondering if you'd taken a wrong turn in Montpelier and ended up here in SE Indiana. Then I remembered, my headlights don't pulse. Maybe it was variable cloud reflectivity.  

A pulsing headlamp would be good.True flashes leave you unmarked for too long. The guy who builds the electronics I used for my light periodically upgrades the software. That will be a request from me.

BrianMc


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The Magicshine flash setting is more like a pulse. If you look at the light head, it is somewhat seizure-inducing. But if you look down range from it, the light output appears more consistent. This is why I use that setting on my commutes. Pedestrians hate it, but as long as it's aimed down a little bit, no cars have had an issue. I have also been mistaken for a motorcycle at times.


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## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

My Dinotte headlight has a very distinctive flash pattern...the light never goes completely off, it flashes from the low setting to the highest setting five times. It takes about two seconds to get all five flashes out. Then it pauses on the low setting for a second and starts over. It's a real attention getter.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> The Magicshine flash setting is more like a pulse. If you look at the light head, it is somewhat seizure-inducing. But if you look down range from it, the light output appears more consistent. This is why I use that setting on my commutes. Pedestrians hate it, but as long as it's aimed down a little bit, no cars have had an issue. I have also been mistaken for a motorcycle at times.


My MS headlight has five settings, three steady modes and two flash modes. The fifth mode has an interesting flash pattern, which I don't think is very optimal. It has a few quick flashes followed by a few slow fashes. I use this mode for daylight riding. The pulsing flash that sort of resembles "slow motion" lighting that one might see at a concert is what I normally use for night riding. I never bothered to look at it head on, but I think I will just to see if I have the headlight at a safe angle so that it won't bother people. As you said, it doesn't bother the eyes when looking from the cockpit. I would normally use one of the steady modes fpr night rides, but the headlight is sharing the battery with an MS taillight, so I want to make use of battery power.

Btw, speaking of the MJ-818 taillight, does yours seem to change settings by itself during operation? It has three modes: steady, flash1, and flash2. Say I set it to flash1 (main central LED flashes) and later when I look at it I see that it is on flash2 (with the auxillary LEDs flashing). Is this normal?


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^ Looked them up. The newest LED drivers have this feature now. You can set lower and upper intensity and their durations. 

BrianMc


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Good a place as any to post...
I see REI has Fenix LD-22 on sale for $45. If anybody is thinking about a backup light or an inexpensive, durable single light for occasional streetlit wanderings, I`ve heard good things about this one. Just might get one for myself.

Fenix LD22 Flashlight - Free Shipping at REI.com


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

djork said:


> My MS headlight has five settings, three steady modes and two flash modes. The fifth mode has an interesting flash pattern, which I don't think is very optimal. It has a few quick flashes followed by a few slow fashes. I use this mode for daylight riding. The pulsing flash that sort of resembles "slow motion" lighting that one might see at a concert is what I normally use for night riding. I never bothered to look at it head on, but I think I will just to see if I have the headlight at a safe angle so that it won't bother people. As you said, it doesn't bother the eyes when looking from the cockpit. I would normally use one of the steady modes fpr night rides, but the headlight is sharing the battery with an MS taillight, so I want to make use of battery power.
> 
> Btw, speaking of the MJ-818 taillight, does yours seem to change settings by itself during operation? It has three modes: steady, flash1, and flash2. Say I set it to flash1 (main central LED flashes) and later when I look at it I see that it is on flash2 (with the auxillary LEDs flashing). Is this normal?


My MS headlight is one of the older 4 ones with high-med-low-flash settings. I don't have those issues with my taillight. I am not sure what the settings are, but I'm pretty sure mine has more flash settings than what you describe for yours. Some of the settings go back and forth between the central LED and the outer LED's. the one I use has an irregular pattern of fast and slow flashes from the central brighter LED. I can't remember if the outer ones light up, too. I'll look next time I use it.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> My MS headlight is one of the older 4 ones with high-med-low-flash settings. I don't have those issues with my taillight. I am not sure what the settings are, but I'm pretty sure mine has more flash settings than what you describe for yours. Some of the settings go back and forth between the central LED and the outer LED's. the one I use has an irregular pattern of fast and slow flashes from the central brighter LED. I can't remember if the outer ones light up, too. I'll look next time I use it.


Maybe my taillight has more than three settings. I may have the dial set to a mode that gives me the flash pattern I mentioned. I just prefer the main central LED to flash but somewhere the outer mini LEDs give outb a burst flash followed by a burst flash of the main central LED. But in any case I'm happy with the MS taillight.


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## Lithified (Apr 14, 2007)

Lots of good ideas in this thread. I have a Planet Bike Superflash on my rear rack, a high-vis vest/gloves/ankle strap and a Niterider Mininewt up front. Not quite as much illumination as I want (need moar $$$) but I feel safer at night than in daylight. 

I guess if people have my blinky lights to focus on, they realize I am a live thing they should avoid. knock on wood...

Also, on days that I ride in, I wait till 530pm to leave as I find it avoids a lot of the crazies.


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## Tzvia (Sep 7, 2008)

I've been using a Bike Glow in blue as as 'light me up' light, along with a 7" long red tube shaped light I just got (forgot the brand) that straps to the downtube. That gives me side lighting. Also Nathan reflectors and LightWeights on the wheels, but lights don't require the correct angle to a light source to function as reflectors do. 

In back, I just got a new Serface strap-on red blinkie that is very bright and USB rechargeable, the Thunderbolt. It is awesome. Use that and a Magicshine rear light, and a Denotte 300r. (Is this overkill??) I am contemplating getting another Thunderbolt and retiring my Magicshine, as it weighs a lot less and is self contained. The Denotte is daylight visible so I use it on my ride home, as it is still light when I leave work. I highly recommend it for daylight commuting, those superflashes really aren't so super until the Sun goes down.

Up front, I use a NR mininewt 600 on the bar and an L&M Stella 150 on the helmet in blink mode. Having a helmet light is really useful. Up high, you can shine it into a driver's eyes over the top of parked cars, say if someone is exiting a parking lot on the right and is just not paying attention. If I think someone is not noticing me, I just look at them .

Of course, those reflective leg bands and a reflective jacket and vest. and reflective tape on the helmet round out my holiday light parade. It's part fun and part serious, and I usually get odd looks and people making comments as I wait at the light so I am getting noticed by drivers.


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## jetta_mike (Feb 26, 2007)

djork said:


> My MS headlight has five settings, three steady modes and two flash modes. The fifth mode has an interesting flash pattern, which I don't think is very optimal. It has a few quick flashes followed by a few slow fashes.


The fifth flash mode is morse code for S.O.S.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Tzvia, I think we need a pci or vid of that setup.


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## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

NateHawk said:


> I bought whatever it was that walmart had in stock in the automotive section and it's been fine for the past year. no signs of peeling. it might have even been the 3m stuff, which is highly regarded.


I don't know why I hadn't thought of the automotive section for reflective tape... that's a damn good idea. The other place I've heard of getting them from is marine or sign suppliers, which supply a sheet rather than a strip. We have guillotine paper cutters at work though so that makes it easy to convert these sheets to whatever size we want.



djork said:


> I'll add another vote for a bright taillight such as the Magicshine MJ-818.


I talked to a few people RE: the MJ 800 lumen lights (as in, people in the industry) and the illumination is less consistent than other lights - as in it will start off at around 787 lumens and be around the 687 lumens mark at 50% charge on the battery. L&M put the discharge illumination on their advertising material for the Urban series lights to make their lights a selling point over the cheap knockoff lights. That's the main difference between the MJ lights and something like Light & Motion.

For a tail light, I think this is perfectly fine, considering my current lights do that anyway! Headlight, that's personal opinion, but I do remember switching mine from low to medium to high as the ride progressed with my old MJ lights.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

hunter006 said:


> I don't know why I hadn't thought of the automotive section for reflective tape... that's a damn good idea.


The Walmart reflective tepe works well. Both White and Red. Here is the errand bike with the red and white tape red on fender and back of ghetto panniers wrapped around the corner and while for there wrapped around the front though it does not show in this light. While on the front rack struts, too. In use for three years.





hunter006 said:


> I talked to a few people RE: the MJ 800 lumen lights ... will start off at around 787 lumens and be around the 687 lumens mark at 50% charge on the battery. ...For a tail light, I think this is perfectly fine, considering my current lights do that anyway! Headlight, that's personal opinion, but I do remember switching mine from low to medium to high as the ride progressed with my old MJ lights.


Watch the old Superflashes ass they will drop to a glow. They will run over 100 hourw on alkalines but the output after about 20 hours is not what I'd bet my life on. The new Turbos and the Radbot 1000s are very bright for about 10minutes then settle on a slow drop for about 7 hours then crash on NiMH cells. The self contained ligths shut off to protect the batteries. A recharging regiment is advisable to make sure you are as well lit as you intend to be.

Some interesting products a previous post enticed me to look for:

Fibre Flare

N-Vison Single Stick Night Safety Lights

The Container Store > Bike Brightz™ Light Stick & Glow Brightz™ Tubing

Adding weight to wheels is not my favorite from a speed standpoint. If I took off another 20 pounds, I could easily handle the extra load.  A light stick on a fork, seat stay or fender stay would light a shiny or reflective rim and may do well enough lighting up a wheel.

BrianMc


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I really like my cat eye wheel lights, not too much weight. On steady orange, the circular pattern of the lights are very clearly, on a bike.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Those fibreflares are cool. I might have to give them a look.



NateHawk said:


> On my frame, I put electrical tape underneath because the package had warnings about the adhesive being strong enough to peel off paint.


A hairdryer should get that stuff off without damaging the paint. I've removed a bunch without any problems.


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## djork (Nov 8, 2004)

jetta_mike said:


> The fifth flash mode is morse code for S.O.S.


Ah, who knew! I use that mode for my morning commute when it's already bright.


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## fast_monte` (Jul 6, 2009)

Here is what I have done.






Note that I am wearing a reflective vest and have reflective tape on the wheels. I am in a parking lot with some lighting. There are some head lights and tail lights to compare them to.

Most of the parts to make the wheel lights came from hobbypartz.com

LED strips

11.1 volt 800mAh Li-Po battery O-ring mounted to the hub.

Battery charger

Connectors

I used a carbon arrow shaft to wrap the LED strips around, if you are careful you can get the LEDs to line up in a row. The shaft mounts to the spokes using zip ties.

I feel that it is important to introduce a color other than red or white, because of all the light pollution in an urban setting.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ Shows better than I hoped. Why not the front wheel since it gets there first? Night vision? Do you notice the rotational mass much climbing or accelerating. What sort of run time are you getting?

BrianMc


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

Ditto BrianMc. Looks pretty sweet, like you have a cop light bar bouncing down the street after you.


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## fast_monte` (Jul 6, 2009)

I thought the front wheel may be too distracting for me, but after using it I think it would be OK. Most of the mass, (the battery) is located on the hub so it does not take much extra effort to spin it up. I can't tell the differance at all. On a down hill going over 35 MPH I did not feel an imballance. The run time is over 2 hours, I have not tested it longer.


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## jseko (Jan 25, 2011)

Sanath said:


> That sounds a bit extreme.


I've had pedestrians walk out into the street less than 5m in front of me while I'm going about 20MPH. I had 700 lumens flashing light and 700+400 lumens flashlight. I have the hotspot of the 400 lumens aimed such that the center is about 1.5m above ground at about 6m ahead. I don't think it's so much that they didn't see me but rather they consciously choose to ignore me which is just as bad.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Very innovative, Fast monte! You have one red and one blue LED bar tied into your spokes, or just a blue one? It looks like a red one at the top, but I only see blue in the light puddle. When the O-ring holding your battery to the hub dries out and breaks (or threatens to break), you don`t have to relace the wheel to put another on, do you?


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## fast_monte` (Jul 6, 2009)

There is one blue and one red. At higher speeds they look purple.

Here is the battery mounted to a hub.










Here is just the battery and mount.









Here is the whole thing together.


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## crazylemurboy (Dec 12, 2011)

I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their input. While we all take a casual attitude here on the forum, this subject is quite serious. The improvements made on someone's bike due could possibly save their lives. Not only that, this forum appreciates input from all sources . +1

On a more on topic note, I've been commuting by bike for about 3 years, but only in the last 1.5 years have I had to do serious night time commuting (9+ miles one direction in the dark, sometimes both ways). Amazon had some engineering grade reflective tape for pretty cheap so I picked up a few colors. BikeTiresDirect had a sale for Black Friday so I also scooped up some m232 Monkeylectric spoke lights. 

Previously I used the cheapy NiteEze lights on my spokes due to the concerns I had with night riding so often, but they used watch batteries that didn't last more than a week or two with all the burn time they had. I discontinued their use after many frustrating battery changes.

I hope these improvements will not only get me noticed but redirect drivers thoughts from "damn bike on MY road" to "that's a damn cool bike" and improve the attitude from my fellow citizens towards me.


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

crazylemurboy said:


> I just wanted to thank everyone in this thread for their input. While we all take a casual attitude here on the forum, this subject is quite serious. The improvements made on someone's bike due could possibly save their lives. Not only that, this forum appreciates input from all sources . +1
> 
> On a more on topic note, I've been commuting by bike for about 3 years, but only in the last 1.5 years have I had to do serious night time commuting (9+ miles one direction in the dark, sometimes both ways). Amazon had some engineering grade reflective tape for pretty cheap so I picked up a few colors. BikeTiresDirect had a sale for Black Friday so I also scooped up some m232 Monkeylectric spoke lights.
> 
> ...


What reflective tape did you buy? I bought some "stealth reflective tape"...it sucks. Barely reflects at all. I want the best/brightest tape on my gear.


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## bikeCOLORADO (Sep 4, 2003)

"Conspicuity Tape" - That's the ticket, stuff better be good, it's priced like it's printed on gold foil.

IDENTI-TAPE - 3M US DOT Approved Conspicuity Tape

They carry Iron On "heat transfer" products too:
IDENTI-TAPE - 3M Scotchlite Heat-Transfer / Iron-on Reflective Tape

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...cf0fc162&bpcl=39314241&ion=1&biw=1112&bih=630


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## crazylemurboy (Dec 12, 2011)

bikeCOLORADO said:


> What reflective tape did you buy? I bought some "stealth reflective tape"...it sucks. Barely reflects at all. I want the best/brightest tape on my gear.


JVCC REF-7 Engineering Grade Reflective Tape: 1 in. x 30 ft. (Silver-White) - Amazon.com

The reviews and price were good so I figured I could gamble $12. Brown Santa paid me a visit yesterday so I'll hopefully have some time on Sunday to try this stuff out.


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## jojen (Jan 2, 2013)

sounds like you're already quite visible. do you need lights that strobe? or do you just need a really bright headlight to light the path? my pollywog LED and bv headlight are in strobe mode all the time. saves battery and alerts the crazies.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

JUst couse you have a nice light system, visibility system....

Will not mean you are "SAFE"

It takes lots of other things to ensure your safety, most importantly route selection.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

jeffscott said:


> JUst couse you have a nice light system, visibility system....
> 
> Will not mean you are "SAFE"
> 
> It takes lots of other things to ensure your safety, most importantly route selection.


absolutely.

Visibility is only the first part of it (what you should figure out before you leave the house).

Riding predictably and on the quietest routes with the most space you can find is going to be at least as important, if not more important like jeffscott says.

Predictable riding is huge, though. Weaving all over the place and rapidly jumping across lanes and such will make all your other safety measures useless. You need to be constantly aware of your surroundings, signal every time you intend to make a move, and make motorists feel comfortable driving around you. Being visible is only a subset of that.


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## oops (May 28, 2005)

mack_turtle said:


> tried that. it tells me to take the route I am already taking.
> 
> *the first half of the trip home is four lanes populated by strip clubs, Ethiopian restaurants* full of cabbies, and gay bars. i don't trust the drivers pulling out of those establishments. fortunately, most of it is lit up and there are four lanes. then I have to make a right turn onto a two-lane street with zero shoulder and a wide sidewalk. shortly after that, I have to make a left turn onto a neighborhood street and I have home-free because that last third is easy. there is no traffic light at that last left turn so I have to sit there for several minutes and then sprint across on foot. it's that busy intersection and subsequent stretch of narrow, busy road and that left turn across traffic that freak me out.


If this way my ride I would never get home.


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## thebigfish (Dec 3, 2012)

jojen said:


> sounds like you're already quite visible. do you need lights that strobe? or do you just need a really bright headlight to light the path? my pollywog LED and bv headlight are in strobe mode all the time. saves battery and alerts the crazies.


I use a bright 700 lumien light mounted to my helmet and a cheap flashing strobe on the bars. I like the strobe because it has cutouts on the side which allows it to be seen from the side. Its gives me a little more confidence traveling through intersections that I'll be seen from traffic entering the roadway.


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## 50calray (Oct 25, 2010)

crazylemurboy said:


> NateHawk, how well does reflective tape hold up long term? I live in hot & wet central FL and I find that most tape tends to peel back after being wetted and soaked with road debris, and this process continues over time. Eventually I have to remove all the tape and start over. Can you recommend a brand of tape that will avoid this?


I installed some reflective strips on our bikes years ago. Our bikes sat outside under a covered patio for a good solid year exposed to West Texas: heat, dust storms, and flash floods. As a result, a lot of the hardware has started rusting.

Anyhow, I all but forgot about it until tonight. I was swapping parts tonight and took a picture to show a friend. That's when I saw the reflectors, reacting to the flash. I only used a few pieces on all sides combined with a front and rear light. I just wanted to pass this along to those thinking about using reflective tape.

(Yellow reflective tape on Swing arm and fork)


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Apologies to those who have seen these videos before.

I use some reflective tape and items and have seen my brass fenders return almost as bright a return.

Riding roads and streets with little lighting other than from cars makes reflective components a lot less effective. The first video has a vehicle at right angles to the bike. The camera aimed tothe right as if the driver were looking that way. The street bends so the bike is seen first riding away then approaching, then coming from the blind side. The first pass is with about 100 lumen flashlight and the old outmoded Planet Bike Superflash. The second is my headlights and helmet on low power and more powerful tail lights, the last with lights on the ankles asa test to add more side visibility. The reflective bots show up about 1 second before the bike passes in front of the vehicle. Underwhelming.

http://img42.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Pbod
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

This is taken in a well lit parking low with a road extending 1/4 form it. I rode fist pass as if at the right side of the near lane,then two other distances and they away and back. Camera at driver height and vehicle lights on low beam as in the video above:

http://img508.imageshack.us/flvplayer.swf?f=Pzln
Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Again not too helpful. Better to see me late than never, but relying on reflective surfaces over much for safety is unwise.

Bear in mind that although this is a good camera for night videos it is not the average human eye. So most would see me a bit sooner/better. I suspect it is as good as many older driver's eyes, who have not yet given up night driving.

I am awaiting rim GLO tape to arrive soon. It phosphoresces with a frog light shining at one point as it spins by. So it is not dependent on car lights. I also have polished brass fenders and gold anodized bottle cages that have shone about as bright as reflective tape.It will be interesting. My errand bike is festooned in reflective tape with the ghetto panniers in place, another good comparison.

I find it helps me ride defensively knowing how I look from the driver's seat. Of course, as always, that assumes they are looking.

BrianMc


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

I encountered a poorly lit cyclist tonight as I drove. It was actually pretty shocking how late I saw him. He had a really weak non-blinking taillight and a reflective vest that barely showed up, maybe due to the giant backpack, or perhaps being old or grimy. He was on rte 302 (55mph there I believe), which has some shoulder but squeezes skinnier where there are guard rails, and really dark. When I passed his headlight seemed decent in terms of visibility in the rear view anyway. Charge up your lights, replace your batteries, have a backup, commuters! Hoping I don't read about him in the paper, I'm second-guessing myself for not stopping or something.


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## 50calray (Oct 25, 2010)

mtbxplorer said:


> I encountered a poorly lit cyclist tonight as I drove. It was actually pretty shocking how late I saw him. He had a really weak non-blinking taillight and a reflective vest that barely showed up, maybe due to the giant backpack, or perhaps being old or grimy. He was on rte 302 (55mph there I believe), which has some shoulder but squeezes skinnier where there are guard rails, and really dark. When I passed his headlight seemed decent in terms of visibility in the rear view anyway. Charge up your lights, replace your batteries, have a backup, commuters! Hoping I don't read about him in the paper, I'm second-guessing myself for not stopping or something.


That's scary!

The most under illuminated commuter I saw was a person in a wheel chair wearing dark clothing, black chair/wheels, and absolutely zero reflectors or lights. I only saw a shadow like figure and slowed down thinking it was an animal.


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

Oh, you may want to try monkeylectric.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

50calray said:


> The most under illuminated commuter I saw was a person in a wheel chair wearing dark clothing, black chair/wheels, and absolutely zero reflectors or lights. I only saw a shadow like figure and slowed down thinking it was an animal.


Makes you wonder if previous unlit night wanderings were the reason for the wheelchair.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

I was amazed in a negative way that reflective vests and bright jackets only show when under street lights at night. In all but very overcast daylight, they are phenomenal. Partly that is a function of how erect a rider is for a behind view of light from low beams at night, No difference from the side. 

Before the bright daytime lights and reflective vest, I frequently had drivers come on me too fast and get too close. Giving them more time or disturbing their phone calls has made such cases very rare. At night a well charged Superflash was almost adequate on the street. Not in a 55 zone, though. 

A Ninja rider blew a 4 way stop and I did not see him until he was straight in front and me rolling. He was lucky I was slow to launch. So the reflectors add a sec (give or take some tenths depending on your speed). They help, but not as much as they look like they should from the side. They should flare for a driver to the rear.

BrianMc

.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

rodar y rodar said:


> Makes you wonder if previous unlit night wanderings were the reason for the wheelchair.


I've seen more than one person in a wheelchair with blinkies and reflective tape. Even one or two with those big orange "slow moving vehicle" triangles on the back.

The worst nearly invisible ninja I have encountered was when I was in Texas on my way home from the office late (driving). I was driving up the only hill of substance on my route and saw a flash in the lane to my right (I was in the left lane about to make a left turn). In my rearview mirror, I saw a guy on an unlit bmx bike silhouetted against the streetlights at the bottom of the hill. He was probably going at least 20mph down that hill (I know that I frequently break 30mph going down that hill on my commuter bike, occasionally passing cars on the train tracks at the bottom). I didn't see him at all until he was past me and if I was in that right lane, his face would have been in my backseat, most likely.

After I saw him, I noted a relatively well-lit commuter on the sidewalk going up that hill. That's one spot I was always on the sidewalk, because I'd slow to barely faster than a walk on that climb, and the road had no shoulder. I wonder if the guy on the bmx bike was in the road going the wrong way riding around the guy going up the hill because he didn't want to dismount and walk his bike around the other guy.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

BrianMc said:


> I was amazed in a negative way that reflective vests and bright jackets only show when under street lights at night.


I'll also note that the utility of reflective materials cannot be assessed with flash photography, as much fun as such images are to post (yes, I do it too).

But not realistic, unless you are absolutely sure that every motorist on your route will have clean, properly-adjusted headlights that are working, every time.

A lot of the cars on my ride, I'm lucky if they have one dirty DRL on.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

I've notice that the newer speed limit, etc. signs (the ones that look kind of corrugated up close) are super bright, the reflection from my headlamp is pretty blinding. I don't think it's just because they are new, they seem to be a more reflecty design.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

^^ That would up the punch it up. Maybe the 3M stuff.The camera suggests the beam returns to the driver when the bike is about 45 degrees to either side. Narrower when the bike is on the other side of the road suggesting that the brightness factors in when the bike is not on the near side of the road. 

Of course that assumes decent headlights reasonably well aimed, as pointed out. Reflectors are nice and part of a defense in depth. Just more of a last ditch effort.

BrianMc


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## cgg074 (Jan 13, 2013)

+1!!!


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

mtbxplorer said:


> I've notice that the newer speed limit, etc. signs (the ones that look kind of corrugated up close) are super bright, the reflection from my headlamp is pretty blinding. I don't think it's just because they are new, they seem to be a more reflecty design.


Perhaps they're 3M Diamond Grade in the DG3 variant, which I hear is optimized for closer ranges. But a headlamp, meaning a light mounted on your head, will show reflection more strongly than a bar light (or a driver's auto headlights) because your headlamp is so close to your eyes.

That's why I rely mainly on my helmet light to spot deer on fast rural descents. Deer eyes are reflective, and the helmet light will show them much better than a bar light because the observation angle (angle between light source and my eyes) is very small. Trying to spot a brown deer in the dark by any other characteristic is difficult, them being a dull brown color on a black background.


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