# My Maelstrom is dying, any tips on idler setup



## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

So it feels like my Maelstrom has finaly become unridable. This really sucks because after months of riding I just found the sweet spot in the suspension setup and I am really starting to pin my local trails. The bike feels super stable and jumps incredibly well, even compared to my Wildcard. The sizing is spot on and geometry ideal which all results in a confidence inspiring ride that has seriously allowed me to up my game in the short time I have had the bike. When the bike is working its an amazing ride.
I am interested to hear how you are all getting on with your idler pulleys cause I am not.

After originaly setting up the bike I was dropping chains after hits and going through rough corners, I fixed it by ensuring my chainline was spot on. I went through about 3-4 months of fairly hassle free riding till last week my chain and idler pulley jammed, then proceeded to jam 3 times in 1 ride. This is a crap feeling well you are comitted to a line and go to drop a pedal only to find you drivechain has seized up.

Damaged side plate








Damaged teeth which I think makes this pulley unusable








So back to the drawing board and stripping down the drive chain again. The new style of roller just arrives with some other parts, so I am stoked. But after installing I notice some funky chainline action, this is only when pedaling. When I back spin the chain line straightens out perfectly.

This is how my chain line looks running on the 34t front ring and middle cog on the rear casette. This is how it runs when I use the original pulley and if I use the new style after back pedaling.








This is what happens after one rotation of pedaling with the new roller in the same set up as above. The chain only runs straight from the front ring to the casette if I am in the lower 3 cogs. As soon as I chain up 1 more gear it looks like this.


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## Sneeck (Jun 13, 2007)

It might be your crank spacing is wrong(less spacers on the driveside)


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## GearTech (Mar 3, 2009)

is the pulley now moving to follow the natural path of the chain when it is in those larger cogs? Does this happen while riding or does it remedy itself when tension is applied to the chain by pedaling? It should float back and forth obviously but not to the point where it causes rubbing or chain loss issues. Try flipping the pulley around on the axle just to see if maybe one of the bearings is not set flush and inspect the axle itself to make sure it isn't bent from all of that jamming you were getting. In the end call Corsair, they are helpful and knowledgeable.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

I decided to try the spare original roller since the chain line issue seemed odd to me and I figured I was doing pretty well with the original. While I was at it I removed another spacer from my BB thinking my chainline couldnt have been perfect or the new roller would have run true. Its a flat roller so shouldnt be dictating the chain line all that much. This is how the new roller looked after 1 ride.









This is what happened after removing the new roller and attempting to complete 1 ride on the original roller.









I flipped the bike to try look for other clues and noticed that judging from below, my original BB spacing would have given me the best chain line and the new roller was just throwing me off. I think 2x2mm spacers or 1x2mm and 1x1mm spacer is the best setup on the drive side. This gives a straight chainline and just enough clearance between the granny ring and chain guide, no washers behind the stinger. This is how it looks with 
1x2mm spacer running 34t front and middle on the casette, hard to see but there is a bit of a kick in the chain. No major but if I want to switch to single up front then using the biggest cog would become more of an issue. I will be adding a 1mm spacer on the drive side.









I think I have been really patient and put alot of effort into getting this bike working and while I hate maintenance I am prepared to work this out. I am frustrated to be in Korea where I have to import parts and weight 1-2 weeks. I have a bike that I am struggling to keep running and have no real option to sell it and get something more durable. Like I said I am prepared to try and work this out so any tips would be great. I bought htis as a bike which can cover some all mountain rides with a granny ring and front mech but I was even prepared to run single up front to reduce any chances of dropping a chain. I dont see how that will help with the idler issue since I stay in the middle of the casette on the runs where I have destroyed all my pulleys. I am emailing Corsair today with the same pics and info and if I get some updates I will post it up.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Sneeck said:


> It might be your crank spacing is wrong(less spacers on the driveside)


Down to 1x2mm spacer and thats as low as I can go.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

GearTech said:


> is the pulley now moving to follow the natural path of the chain when it is in those larger cogs? Does this happen while riding or does it remedy itself when tension is applied to the chain by pedaling? It should float back and forth obviously but not to the point where it causes rubbing or chain loss issues. Try flipping the pulley around on the axle just to see if maybe one of the bearings is not set flush and inspect the axle itself to make sure it isn't bent from all of that jamming you were getting. In the end call Corsair, they are helpful and knowledgeable.


The original style pulles dont seem to float perfectly under pedaling but I have found they set themsleves to the correct position fairly well. I am amazed that there is enough space between the tunnel and the pulley for any chance of the chain lifting up and jamming. The funky chainline is only with the new roller. The pic I posted shows a straight chainline with the original pulley when pedaling and with the new roller only when back pedaling. The pic of the crap chain line between the front ring and the pulley is with the new roller installed, when pedalling and in the middle of the rear casette.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

I don't know, but my gut tells me that the original idler set up should be the better solution, there is a lot of stress on that pulley since it sees direct chain tension, esp if you pedal a lot and I just don't see that roller lasting long at all (as your picture shows).

I'd say the original pulley is essentially a disposable item and should probably just be replaced regularly, kinda like brake pads.

Buy a couple spares and run with that, esp if it worked properly for 3-4months.

I also think that the pulley/idler is simply too small a diameter and will always wear very quickly, probably why the other idlers you see are quite a bit bigger, see the jedi for example.


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## madafaka (Nov 14, 2004)

Just get a Knolly:thumbsup:


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I think the dudes back at Corsair need to go back to the drawing board. I've seen this issue in more than 1 Corsair (especially the need to clean/lube/maintain the pulley after every ride or so).

Definitely the cog needs to have a bearing, but the bearing should have some sort of slick friction free interface with the axle to avoid excessive wear and especially to avoid chain line issues. Finally it should have some o-rings at the sides to clean the axle as it is moving and avoid excessive interface wear out.

The floating pulley design is the same as in the RaceFace Atlas chainguide only that it uses a cog instead of a roller...


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

essenmeinstuff said:


> I don't know, but my gut tells me that the original idler set up should be the better solution, there is a lot of stress on that pulley since it sees direct chain tension, esp if you pedal a lot and I just don't see that roller lasting long at all (as your picture shows).
> 
> I'd say the original pulley is essentially a disposable item and should probably just be replaced regularly, kinda like brake pads.
> 
> ...


I hear you on disposable but I get like 6 months from my brake pads. I got 4 months from 1 pulley and 1 day from the other. Thats not disposable to me and being in Korea I cant go down to the LBS and pick up another like I can with brake pads. One of the worst things about the chain getting jammed up is that it seizes the whole drive chain, this kinda sucks when you belting down the trail, go into a corner and try drop the outside pedal only to find you cant. Its gotten to the point that its starting to mess with my head when I ride and I am focusing on whats happening down there instead of whats ahead and what I need to do. The positive aspect to the new roller is I dont think the chain can get stuck.
Last night I got home after nailing a new perfect drop off and pinning every part of the trail and because of the brand new idler getting damaged I actualy felt negative. I should of been full of stoke:madmax:


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

madafaka said:


> Just get a Knolly:thumbsup:


You have no idea about my regrets:skep: 
If I could sell this frame I would and pick the DT in a heart beat. I dont think I could give this frame away in Korea and being a large makes it harder for all the shorter Asian riders. I am then stuck with a 83mm BB and 150mm rear wheel I cant use on a DT. When the bike is running its a wicked wicked ride and I just have to try make this work. 
All said and done I was swaying to a Rune as a better match to the Maelstrom and due to the overlap between the DT and Maelstrom but now I have to reconsider since I dont know the future of the Maelstrom.
I really feel like I have be conned with this bike.:madmax:


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Can it be run without a pulley? Obviously this will make it pedal like a high, single pivot but at least it will pedal.


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## NoahColorado (Aug 3, 2004)

madafaka said:


> Just get a Knolly:thumbsup:


Haha. My thoughts too.

I've heard the Corsairs work great when they are working, but I've seen the same issue. There was a guy at a race I did this fall whose Corsair locked up whilst he was pinning it and he endoed hard - broken hand.

I would be pissed if I had to fuss with that pulley - and more pissed if it took me months to dial in suspension. I could put a Rock Shox Ario on one of my Knollys and it would still kick arse.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

^^^^ Not an option due to chain routing and rearward travel.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

NoahColorado said:


> Haha. My thoughts too.
> 
> I've heard the Corsairs work great when they are working, but I've seen the same issue. There was a guy at a race I did this fall whose Corsair locked up whilst he was pinning it and he endoed hard - broken hand.
> 
> I would be pissed if I had to fuss with that pulley - and more pissed if it took me months to dial in suspension. I could put a Rock Shox Ario on one of my Knollys and it would still kick arse.


Okay now you really making me mad. But still I just gotta try work through this. I am putting a photo report together and will send to Chris at DnZ and Corsair. Chris has been super helpful and patient so we will see what happens. That raw 2010 DT is killer. I have enough parts to build up another bike but I was planning on a 160mm fork, which I now have with the other goodies, to make the DT/Rune an AM/Trail ripper to match the Maelstrom.
I keep reading the DT performs best with a 180mm fork but I dont want ot go that route till I know I have lucked out on the Maelstrom. Funny thing is I feel I could cover all bases with the DT with 2 forks and it seems to me it would last as long and I need. Maybe paired up with a hardtail or my Wildcard to more DJ stuff. Time will tell.
What the hell are all these riders supposed to do with their Corsairs now?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Search the RideMonkey DH forum for the Corsair thread. The guy who started it loves his and might know how to help.


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## GearTech (Mar 3, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> Search the RideMonkey DH forum for the Corsair thread. The guy who started it loves his and might know how to help.


You may be referring to me. I always ran mine in a 1x9 setup and had the old pulley when I owned it. I had the chain jam on me only once during the 6 months that I owned it. If someone is looking for a low maintenance simple design I would not recommend the Maelstrom unfortunately. Too much going on with the linkage and idler pulley design. That being said, if someone is looking for an amazing performer and is willing to put up with some maintenance the Maelstrom would be at or near the top of the list. I didn't think the suspension was all that difficult to dial in actually.

Now, this thing that JP has going on with the wandering pulley is unique and should be addressed by Corsair. It is really unfortunate that JP is in Korea and has to wait so long for replacement parts.

JP, maybe we should try out one of these Knollys...I've got a 170mm Lyrik DH Solo Air sitting here that would match perfectly with the new Delirium...

Keep us updated on this JP.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Geartech, I can actually see the finished build of my DT, I have a fork, brand new set of Spank wheels, wont tell you the color till the build is complete, which I was thinking of using but decided to store them to keep them fresh. I have three bikes so while I dont like too much maintenance I am getting used to it. I keep all my bikes super clean in order to keep them running smooth but since the Maelstrom I cant believe how little I actualy have to do to the hardtail and Wildcard. Thinking back it was really changing tires, setting brakes, minor stuff really.
This Maelstrom is another can of worms and while maintenance is acceptable a seized up drive chain on a comitted line is asking for an injury.
Err's Rune is making it a tough call but going though this idler issue and then having the Rune with bushings which require chaing out etc I am realling thinking the DT might be the winner. Since the DT can step up to the plate if the Maelstrom really does die is another motivating factor. All I need is a huge discount on the frame.


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## One_Speed (Aug 3, 2007)

That sucks a$$.

Have you tried a mrp/blackspire roller or would a derailer pulley work?


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

I think Scrublover was playing with one on his new Marque, not much updates from him. I dont have access to many DH orientated parts here so I am hoping for some feedback so I can makes some plans. Judging from the wear on the new roller I am not sure how long a chain guide roller will last. As a guide roller I dont think it will take the same amount of abuse as it will with all the power transfer from the cranks when its mounted as an idler.
I created a detailed report and sent it to DnZ and Corsair this morning so I hope to hear back from them soon.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

Hmm, that new roller doesn't look like like i thought it would..

http://danjones.posterous.com/eurobike-corsiar-bikes-new-updates

The 4th picture shows a 'ribbed' roller i think, strange.

I've also been having trouble with mine. Its a little chewed up but i keep enough material now above the roller to keep the chain from jumping up. I believe yours is done.. way to mangled to function properly anymore. I made an order from Corsair for several spare parts that i would like having around; including a few of the new rollers, and even a couple of the old ones, although i'm hoping that i get the revised old style pulley which should be more durable. Then i'll try both out. If the revised old style pulley is good, i might even stick with it. I don't mind the noise the least bit, heck some buds have rear hubs that are louder!


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

The noise issue is a bunch of crap, seriously I dont think it's an issue at all. My elka makes more noise when it blows off and I think chain slap is considered anoying. The only time I notice the noise from the Idler pulley is on the road where the bike obviously doesnt belong. The new roller is quiet.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

juan pablo said:


> The noise issue is a bunch of crap, seriously I dont think it's an issue at all. My elka makes more noise when it blows off and I think chain slap is considered anoying. The only time I notice the noise from the Idler pulley is on the road where the bike obviously doesnt belong. The new roller is quiet.


My thoughts exactly. I'm down with the toothed idler pulley, and if they would make one which is extremely durable (some kinda steel) and with the sidewall coming up to the roof of the chain tunnel so there is no chance of the chain jamming, then i think that would be best.

And i've gotten my maelstrom completely silent btw, no chain slap anywhere.. not even an issue.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Can you send me some pics? I have tried various materials starting with a felt padding that is used under table and chair legs. Worked well but since its fairly fluffy on both sides it is not that durable on double sided tape but shapes well. I tried velcro but I had to stick it to double sided tape myself and for whatever reason it didnt stick to the tape so good. The tape was a PITA to remove. I have now wrapped a section of the chain stay with a tube, a short cut for now and I have lined the inside of the tunnel with a type of foam on the upper side and some tube on the lower. The inside edge on the lower side sees a fair bit of chain action and I have tried to wrap some tube over it but its not enough since its peeling back. Its silent but not refined.
It would be insane if the rear chainstay was redesigned to have a fool proof idler and a tunnel shape that could take a moulded rubber boot to protect and quieten the chain slap. This or a thin teflon insert, that would be refined engineering. The chain/idler clash has gouged the upper side of the tunnel quite well. While we on the subject of improvements, it would be nice to be able to remove the shock without dismantling the swing arm.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Funny how this is working my head. Today I actualy thought that since I am kinda stuck with this bike, I could just fit another idler and since it seems to only suffer on rough ground I could fit some hookworms, stiffen up the suspension and use it as an urban bike. Hell just run it single speed and throw in a custom paint job, thats a rich mans road bike right there.


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## GearTech (Mar 3, 2009)

Here's how I dealt with the shock. Loosen the preload collar all the way loosen the shock bolts until they are unthreaded but leave them in, turn the rebound all the way up, compress the suspension, pull the bolts (bottom one is tricky you have to feed it through the holes in the frame), then uncompress the suspension and fish the shock out before it can fully extend. Pain in the butt but better than taking the linkage apart.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

You remove the shock by first dismantling the swingarm!?? I don't. Maybe it takes a bit of fiddling, but for me it's not necessary to dismantle the swingarm.. i use a Roco btw. Getting it back in is a bit of a pain, you have to get the angle just right because there isn't much room.

For the chain tunnel i just use a piece of inner tube. Cut the length i need, then cut it down the middle, invert it, and stick it in. Goes in close to the idler, and out just over the weld where i tape it down. On the other side i use use a zip tie to fix it to one of the grills on the tunnel roof. Then i just cut away the excess that is showing. It works, and it's not very visible.

As far using it the M as an urban bike.. hm. Lets just get this idler nonsense straightened out and that will be that. Contrary to what you said, this bike is amazing on rough ground, pedaling, coasting, whatever... its a rearward axle path with no pedal kickback, nuff said. The only thing hindering it is the damn idler, and that IS solveable.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Cheers Geartech, cant wait to pull the shock out again hehe.


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## GearTech (Mar 3, 2009)

When I had the frame I always wanted to dip the swingarm tunnel in that stuff you can use to cover the handles of tools with. You know, the rubbery stuff. Tape off everything that you don't want covered and dip yourself to a nice thick coating of protective silence. I just patented this so if you use my idea I'm suing


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## Topgun514 (Feb 2, 2008)

run it single speed!!!


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

JuanPablo - Can you check to see if your new pulley is as wide as the tunnel? I'm wondering if you're having an issue where the chain is getting caught between the pulley and the side of the tunnel? By the looks of your chain being pulled to one side, it looks like a possibility. The pulley should be only 1-2 mm narrower than the tunnel so that the chain can not slip off the side of it.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Err - I have a 2mm gap and currently have the flange side sitting on the inside even though I have tried the other way. I received 5 bearings and 3 washers but I can only get 4 bearings in the width of the tunnel. The fifth bearing makes the set up 1mm to wide. So its 4 bearings and 3 washers to shim. The ware in the new roller is one thing but the way it is causing the chain to drift, resulting in the chain kinking is not ideal.


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## 4JawChuck (Dec 1, 2008)

Have you tried reducing the idler wheels axle diameter to allow it to float more easily? I think what may be happening is its getting jammed with mud preventing the idler from floating easily, actually any dirt on the axle shaft will prevent it from sliding laterally at speed under tension from the chain.

The bearing fit to the axle is likely around 0.001", you could increase the clearance to 0.005" by reducing the axle shaft diameter to allow it to float more easily and be more tolerant of dirt on the shaft.

To test this you could have a non-toothed nylon wheel fabricated locally with the 0.005" clearance without a bearing and see if the problem is reduced or eliminated, any machine shop can help you out in this regard and you might just find a permanent fix during testing of different clearances where the factory idler becomes a non-issue.

I know from experience that attempting to have a roller bearing slide on an axle under load is nearly impossible because of the design of the inner race seat having a sharp edge near the radius. I have attempted to fix this design issue in the past with a blended radiused edge only to find it still sticks and in the end going with a flexible nylon roller without a bearing that solves the problem completely.

The only other fix I can recommend is a wider nylon roller or rubbing block that is stationary and does not float with enough clearance between side plates to allow the chain enough movement to make the shift from ring to ring.

To be honest when that bike came out I noticed this design flaw and wondered how they solved the floating idler from sticking, its common knowledge in machine design that an idler under drive tension will not float on an axle unless there is a lot of clearance, is heavily lubricated and kept clean.

Guess the engineers at Corsair didn't take that class huh.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

Check out Igus bushings, espeficically the Drylin line which reduces friction dramatically in linear systems:

https://www.igus.com/drylin.asp

Example:


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Caveat: all this is about my Marque, with less travel/movement going on in the back end, but the same suspension design.

The new idler works great for me, so far, though the frame showed up right when we got an extended bit of crappy trail conditions and weather. I've not had much time on it to really tell. Single or dual ring, worked well. IMO, the roller works better when it isn't moving around and floating laterally, but you just allow the chain to float across the top of the roller. So long as the roller is free to spin, and have a bit of lateral play, it ought to work well.

I lined the tunnel with sticky-back Velcro, just covering the noisy areas. If you pile it on too thickly, the chain doesn't really get caught so much as sort of delayed when the rear compresses a bunch, then things can get bound up. That I discovered during initial setup, and riding around my garage. 








Right from the start, I didn't even use the original toothed pulley - ordered up a new roller when I ordered the frame.

IMO, a Blackspire or MRP roller would work, but it would get the **** chewed out of it too quickly to really be worth using. A Blackspire roller is in my pack, for a just in case moment of need. They actually fit on the pulley bolt quite well.

With the short bit of ride time I've had on the Marque, it's a super fun bike, and I'm hopeful the new pulley will keep things working well. Yes, it's not a frame to just ride and ignore. Just seems like it'll take a bit of extra attention to make sure things are working sano. Unless it starts exploderizing my pulleys and drivetrain, I'll deal with it for how well it rides and pedals...66* HTA with a Lyrik, low, short, and a kick ass fun bike to ride. Easy enough to ride on XC rides, but burly enough to take much heavier stuff, especially for someone like me who is sorta' hack-ish and still learning.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Thats the problem, it is such a sweet ride but damn frustrating when its not ridable. I 
re-installed the new style roller and managed my gears watching the chainline didnt get too funky. Nice and quiet, no worries about chain getting stuck, I hope, and ended up having a ripping ride. This bike is heavy for trail riding but so so stable in the corners and in the rough. I can see the Marque being insane for the ride I did tonight with more pop and just out right quicker on the gas. I may pluck up the courage to have a look at the roller but expect some grooves for sure.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

Damn I haven't had any problems yet, but let's keep eachother posted on this.:thumbsup:


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

I had to take a good look at my bike after reading this. I think I might have found a couple things that may have been causing this problem.

1. Chainline. Achieving ideal chainline requires proper spacing on the drive side of the bottom bracket / crank. On our frames it is extra important that this is dialed. Some pictures of your bike look like you didn't have enough space between your driveside and the frame. I assume yuou are aware of this as it was mentioned earlier.

2. Gear combinations & front derailer/shifter adjustment. -Since we run dual rings on three ring cranks with bashguards on the third ring, it's hard to get that proper adjustment since there are no two speed front shifters...(are there?) It's been a long time since I owned or maintained a front derailer before this bike, let alone a front der with a bash. I found that setting my front shifter's 3rd gear to top out between my 'middle' ring and the bashguard, and to downshift to the inner ring at 1st gear after two clicks, to be the ideal setting. My 2nd gear is set to not completely engage the chain with the middle ring until the 2nd click at 3rd gear and vice versa. So 2nd gear is in between and does nothing until shifted to either 1 or 3.

I've noticed the roller actually comes into contact with the inside of the front der cage, so _proper gear combinations and settings may very well be crucial in allowing the roller of the Maelstrom frame to work properly_.
Here's some pics for a visual on what I'm tryin to say... Hope you all understand.

*Highest Gear Combination:*









*Lowest Gear Combination:*









*NOTE LIMITED FLOATING CLEARANCE IN LOW GEAR FROM CONTACT OF ROLLER AND INSIDE OF FT. DER. CAGE:*


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

chase down a little kid on his bike and steel it of there's :lol: they have the pullys on them


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

insanitylevel9 said:


> chase down a little kid on his bike and steel it of there's :lol: they have the pullys on them


somebody get this idiot out of here


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

JSUN said:


> somebody get this idiot out of here


ok if you look at a little kids bike they have a pulley thing on them that is almost the same thing as what hes talking about. look at the bike in this link that's what i was talking about. the reason i brought it up is because it would be pretty easy to find a little kids bike that got backed over buy a car. not trying to piss you off it was just a joke. they also have them on tandem bikes.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

insanitylevel9 said:


> ok if you look at a little kids bike they have a pulley thing on them that is almost the same thing as what hes talking about. look at the bike in this link that's what i was talking about. the reason i brought it up is because it would be pretty easy to find a little kids bike that got backed over buy a car. not trying to piss you off it was just a joke. they also have them on tandem bikes.


If you read the thread thoroughly you'd understand that nobody is having a problem finding or acquiring the rollers from Corsair, which are not Chinese plastic pieces of crap like your brilliant stolen child bike part idea is. This is a _serious_ thread about _serious technical issues_. There is no room for mindless drivel in this one, buddy. I'm not pissed off, but I sure ain't laughing. No more jokes please, thank you. C'mon dude you work at a bike shop - don't you? Keep it real.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

JSUN said:


> If you read the thread thoroughly you'd understand that nobody is having a problem finding or acquiring the rollers from Corsair, which are not Chinese plastic pieces of crap like your brilliant stolen child bike part idea is. This is a _serious_ thread about _serious technical issues_. There is no room for mindless drivel in this one, buddy. I'm not pissed off, but I sure ain't laughing. No more jokes please, thank you. C'mon dude you work at a bike shop - don't you? Keep it real.


yes i do work at a shop and all right. how'd you know i work at a shop?


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

insanitylevel9 said:


> yes i do work at a shop and all right. how'd you know i work at a shop?


I also know that you ride a Jamis Parker 1, a Rockhopper and a Hardrock.
I've just left your garage with all of them.
Now please stop posting here.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

JSUN said:


> I also know that you ride a Jamis Parker 1, a Rockhopper and a Hardrock.
> I've just left your garage with all of them.
> Now please stop posting here.


alright


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## Fury25 (Oct 22, 2008)

Hi Guys,

I have just bitten the bullet on a 2010 Maelstrom as well.

2009/2010 spec Maelstroms are apparently running the plastic roller instead of the pulley.

I will be running a Hammerschmidt on it.

If would appear that these problems relate to *ideal* chainline setup issues.

Has anyone suffered the same complaints running a Hammerschmidt set up?


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

Fury25 said:


> Hi Guys,
> 
> I have just bitten the bullet on a 2010 Maelstrom as well.
> 
> ...


Wow, now that opens up a whole 'nother door....

Actually, The Schmidt might solve the problem!!!!


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## Slyp Dawg (Oct 13, 2007)

I'm no expert on the Maelstrom suspension, but I would imagine that if you reduced the amount of available float on the pulley, or alltogether eliminated said float, it would work rather well with the Hammerschmidt. you might have to put some fender washers right beside the pulley to keep the chain from jumping the pulley, though, if you completely eliminated the float


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

you know what... On second thought the chain guide on the Hammerschmidt would not give room for the chain to route up to the idler. 
No Hammerschmidt on our Maelstroms unless you can move that chainguide.


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## horsey24 (Mar 3, 2009)

I am running a hammercshmidt on my Marque without any problems.

I also have seen 2 people with hammerschmidt on their Maelstroms - including a display bike at EuroBike.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

horsey24 said:


> I am running a hammercshmidt on my Marque without any problems.
> 
> I also have seen 2 people with hammerschmidt on their Maelstroms - including a display bike at EuroBike.


Is the Hammerschmidt top chainguide still installed on these corsairs??

Got a pic? I wanna see!!! I wanna see!!


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

JSUN said:


> Is the Hammerschmidt top chainguide still installed on these corsairs??
> 
> Got a pic? I wanna see!!! I wanna see!!


The little guide-piece on the H-schmidt is easy to move to a couple different spots - smart move on the part of Truvativ/SRAM.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

scrublover said:


> The little guide-piece on the H-schmidt is easy to move to a couple different spots - smart move on the part of Truvativ/SRAM.


 

That is good news, thanks. What a great end to a heart-stopping thread. And thanks Truvativ/SRAM!


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

JSUN said:


> That is good news, thanks. What a great end to a heart-stopping thread. And thanks Truvativ/SRAM!


Oh and I know that if I googled "maelstrom hammerschmidt" there's a pinkbike link.

Thanks mtbr!


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## Fury25 (Oct 22, 2008)

horsey24 said:


> I am running a hammercshmidt on my Marque without any problems.
> 
> I also have seen 2 people with hammerschmidt on their Maelstroms - including a display bike at EuroBike.


Which pulley are you running? - the v1, v2 metals or the plastic roller?


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## romar (Sep 16, 2006)

*The nature of the beast*

Well, I've been sitting on installing the new style roller on my Maelstrom as it 'tis the season for the TransAM. After reading through this thread I got the Maelstom out of "hibernation" and threw on the new roller. Let me clarify that I have a single ring setup with a MRP G2 guide. Although the G2 is a killer guide, it's not optimal for the Maelstrom as it's dictating the chainline kicking it wayyy outboard. With a few mods to the guide I was able to get it to work.

Back to the new roller...

After installing the new nylon roller my results were the same as yours JP. Chainline between roller and chainring looks real funky when pedaling forward while high up(in a lower gear) on the cassette. BUT... I distinctly remember my chainline looking the same way with the older style idler. The kink wasn't nearly as visible because it was behind the idler and inside the tunnel, but nonetheless it was there causing all the chain/idler jamming issues. I'm thinking the roller is allowing the chain to run a bit straighter between the cassette and chainring. I know it may not seem like that is whats happening, but try removing your FD and the roller and install the chain. I'm willing to bet your chainline would look similar. That being said, I don't think the roller is causing any of the chainline issues. Too much freakin' snow outside as I'd love to pedal my Maelstrom around and test out this new roller, but I have a feeling it's going to work pretty good. I can't confirm, but I had heard that this new style roller initially wears fast, but once it "seats" itself the wearing slows down significantly. One more thing, I wasn't so crazy about the multiple bearings acting as an axle. It seems to me as if the roller was spinning on the outside of the bearings and not the bearings spinning themselves. I was thinking along the lines of the bearings being more of a "pressed fit" into the roller. I'm actually having a buddy machine a roller up for me. I'll fill you guys in once I get it back and try it out.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Well I am off on holiday today for a month so I hope to squeeze a ride in before I go. I am playing with the idea of seeing if I can get something machined when I get back since we have a lot of good materials available in the shipyard. I am also curious about the bearings being so loose in the roller. I got 5 bearings and only 4 fit, with 3 washers being used for shims. There is still a 1-2mm space so I will look at getting this fine tooned in february. I think it will be time to strip the bike down so I can get to all the pivot bolts since something feels loose again. I will also strip the tunnel and try again with the lining mod, I am liking Geartech's idea but I am not sure what is availble but I likey.
A couple of things since I have continued to use the bike and I have to say this bike rips, I am liking the bigger frame and really feel in the bike, I am also digging the longer wheel base and the bike corners like its on rails. Even compared to my Wildcard, when I put the bike down it stays down and rips through turns so smoothly. Natrualy it drops a treat but I am also blown away by how well the bike jumps, even sending it on my 9' radius DJ jump in the yard for kicks. I have found I am up on my LSC again and the firmer feel has helped bring the bike to life increasing speed, stability and helping to prevent energy sapping pedal sections being an issue ( also a few less scrapes on the bash ring through rock sections). The firmer LSC also seems to help with manuals and funny enough I find the bike more composed through rock sections not diving and rebounding through its travel. 
So I have checked on the roller while riding just to make sure I dont do any damage to my chainring or chain. I have kept mostly in the middle of the casette since that is where it needs to be for my trails. The roller has about 3 grooves in it now but doesnt look as shredded as it originaly did so it looks like the lifespan issue may not be a complete dump. The chainline issue is still a worry. With the grooves now in the roller the chain tends to sit in a given spot until back pedaling or hitting a bump. This makes it harder to tell what is really going on but it really looks to me like the best chainline would be in granny gear with an additional 2mm spacer on the BB. I will need to add at least a 1mm spacer when I get back since there is not enough clearance between the chain and chain guide plate as it stands now. I havent had time to pedal the bike around and go through gears etc to see if the roller is working with the new grooves and I have a Gamut P20 in stock so I may throw it on when I get back and make a comaparason. As long as I can geat full gears on the casette and now funky things up front I think I could manage with a single ring. I love the ride and I am stuck with the bike so I will make the best of things and we will see what happens in 2010.
Cheers for all the feedback and enjoy you Maelstrom. For those buried in snow, hang in there.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

JSUN: regarding your problem with the front der. cage coming into contact with the roller.. you need to get 2 ring specific front der. My SLX is of that type and it actually has a shorter cage, so it can in no way come into contact with the roller.


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

PsyCro said:


> JSUN: regarding your problem with the front der. cage coming into contact with the roller.. you need to get 2 ring specific front der. My SLX is of that type and it actually has a shorter cage, so it can in no way come into contact with the roller.


Really? Damn. Do you remember the SX model name/number for our bikes?

Edit: nevermind, got it THANKS!


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## axolotl (Apr 24, 2008)

*New Build*

My new build :ciappa: (bars and brakes are temp) Too much snow to ride right now :madman: Already have an issue with the idler (even with the Hammerschmidt). The chain will slide off the roller and get wedged against the chainstay when going in the 11 tooth cog. I got a washer in to push the roller farther away from the frame so the chain won't fall off and wedge and it seems like it will work. Seems like the roller should be wider. Anyone else have this problem with a single ring and the roller?

Also had to file out the inside top of the chainstay cause there wasn't enough room. So I hope its not noisy cause I can't put anything in there to quiet it down.

Anyway, love the frame! Never seen such creative thought been so simply and elegantly expressed in a bike frame before! Can't wait to get down to Southern Utah!


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Looks good! Not a Maelstrom, but I'm still really, really digging my Marque!

Now at 32#2oz. and a new MinionDHF rear set up tubeless. 








Why the hell didn't I do ghetto tubeless before??? Spent the last two days trying to burp and pop things, with no luck. Stuff that would for sure have pinched my tubed setup. Me likey.

Still love, love, love! the bike!


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

Awesome.. Lookin good.. Can you post close up shots of your HSchmidt setup?? Front & back? pls thx


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## axolotl (Apr 24, 2008)

*Instructions from Pablo*



JSUN said:


> Awesome.. Lookin good.. Can you post close up shots of your HSchmidt setup?? Front & back? pls thx


Don't have it of mine, but here are the instructions from Pablo.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Guess its time for an update not that I am much interested in this frame anymore. When its working it's a wicked ride but I seem to have issues every third ride. Back from holiday and first ride went well. Never fitted the Gamut single guide mainly due to time but I didn't want to give up on the possibilty of pedaling the bike around and it really needs the granny in my opinion. Even with a 34t front, when I am riding flat ground I am mostly middle in the rear so any kind of uphill is out of the question without a granny ring and I cant use the top 3 rings when in the 34T front. Actualy for most of the DH/FR where I am pushing up, its either really steep and fast or steep and techy down with no pedalling, flat with tight corners and short sprints or steep downs onto short flats up short climbs onto short flats and steep down again. I find that 34t front and middle/one up rear are almost the only gears I use till I commute to the trail or home.

Second ride and what I thought was the one benefit of the roller turned out to be false. The chain twisted, jamed and snapped. Initialy I thought the clearance between the roller and tunnel would negate any jamming but I can only guess that the grooves in the roller have created ridges and the chain was at and angle while crossing over to another groove reducing the clearance, Chain got stuck and SNAP! but not before the drive chain seized up. Fortunately I caught it before I commited to a corner.

I am still finding that while in 34T front and middle back things look fine but change up 1 gear in the back and the chain wants to move right along the roller and thats where the chain kinks like original photos. I have considered going with a single front and chain guide but since my chainline will not be changing I dont see how this will benefit me? It looks like the best position for the front ring would be between the granny and upper ring. I have considered installing a washer between the crank and chainring just to move the chainring over a touch but this seems like crap to me. I cannot access the top 3 gears now so without the granny I am basicaly left with a bike that will struggle to climb the most moderate of gradients. I have thought about changing to a 32T front which will bring the chain down on the rear for my usual riding but I am concerned the angle of the chain over the roller will decrease and a higher force will result and that means even faster wear on the roller. The groove on the one side of the roller is far deeper than the rest so that when the chain is in there its in till I change right down in the rear and back pedal. For some reason back pedaling seems to straighten the chain out but this in itself is a big problem because when I rail a tight corner I drop the outside pedal and basicaly I back pedal to do this. Its a half turn so the chainline is not fully set when I get on the pedals again. Put this together with a series of tight turns dropping opposing pedals and I think its a recipe for disaster.









So I decided to try a single ring up front as a last resort. I am prepared to go through the hassle of trying a 34T and changing to 32T to test the possible benefits. Really all I am doing at this point is trying to make the bike ridable and only expect to be able to use it for pushing up and riding down access the middle rings out back. All I am asking is that the chain doesn't jam.

Now I figure that while I have the bike in a couple of pieces I might as well check all the pivot bolts etc. The rear triangle is hanging on the main bolt and the shock is removed, I pick up one end of the linkage to check the first bolt and find the linkage rotates like its rolling over baby heads. Yup the bearings are shot. Now 6-8 months of on and off use in dry conditions with little dust I would not epect to see the bearings blown out. The bike sees almost no mud and rarely needs to be washed. Initialy I just about threw the bike at the wall as I think the worst and I will not be able to get bearings I need in South Korea but fortunately I got bearings in from Japan after 2 days. I think the method of holding the bearings can result in excessive pressure on the bearings and premature wearing. I was concerned that the bolts were too tight but they were just nipped up from factory and bolts had locklite on. As soon as I backed off on the bolts the main side bearing which felt worse, eased up. The engineering that has gone into this bike is unreal but I am starting to think it might be too much. I have stripped all the lining from inside the tunnel and cleaned out the double sided tape - another nasty job. The new bearings are in the linkage, I just need to install the chainguide and put new lining in the tunnel and reassemble. The lining really helps quieten things done and after the first few rides without it, the tunnel looked pretty grazed up. I have a new roller comming but will ride the old one if I get a chance this weekend. I was hoping for a full strip down but after 1 hour of trying to remove the main pivot bolt I only got it half way out. I tried every method that would not cause any damage but nothing and I gave up before I felt it wouldnt go back.

I have never ridden or previously needed a bike with more than 6" rear and 160mm front so I cant compare this to any other bike. I am seriously disapointed at this point since I previously thought I had the suspension dialled but up till the last ride I was getting to a point that the suspension was incredible and nowhere near where I first thought it was great. To have things feeling so awesome just to have the bike fail leaves a bitter taste. I get fully stoked for each ride so really does suck. I can say with the current suspension set up, the way the bike fits, all the components I am running I feel like I can really hammer any trail. My riding confidence has improved exponentialy and I am gutted to be left with this lemon of a bike. I sent a diplomatic email and full report with photos to Corsair but have never had any feedback - not impressed at all. From what I have heard from Transition, Turner and Banshee riders I am really not impressed. No Bueno!

So the Wildcard has been covering the usual y duties flawlessly and after more than a year of serious abuse I only need to change the rear shock DU bushing. I would prefer to run a 68mm BB and 135mm rear so all my bikes can have interchangable parts should it be necessary. I dont see how I could sell this problem to anyone else and even if I dump the frame the I am left with cranks, rear wheel and an Elka shock. Wheelset and cranks could possibley be sold in Korea but the shock length and custom tune makes it very limiting in any country. I am currently looking at a 2010 DT as I figure you can only make this kind of mistake once. The DT is proven and the bike I have wanted for 4 years. So I will try make the Maelstrom work till the DT arrives and with some luch the frame will snap in 2, just to justify the expense of the DT. Believe me my wife is more pissed than me.

I can only hope that anyone riding a Maelstrom is having better luck than I have.


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## maximilian (May 13, 2008)

your updates are so important to me 'cause i'm thinking putting one up...but might think twice after you've been through these things. 
keep it up, JP...hope to hear some good news from you


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

the whole backpedaling having issues has got me confused. When I backpedal mine the wheel stays exactly in the same spot as going forwards.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Pepper - The wheel or the chain? Its the chain line that changes. When I pedal in a gear higher than middle ring on the rear the chain drifts right across the roller and creates a kink. When I back pedal the chainline straightens out and looks how it should.


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## YoPawn (Mar 26, 2008)

dude that sucks so bad! 

I'm not sure if Corsair can survive this bad of an entry into the MTB market with their frames. I've been saying for several years now. If Corsair would just make a damn simple traditional bike with the attention to aesthetics and design they show to have, then they might have made a solid place for themselves in the market. Instead they seem to be drinking a bit too much of their own Kool-Aid and totally missed the highest priority for making frames; RELIABILITY. The Konig is the only suspension frame they make that I have seen people riding and with no issues at all. Super solid bike. 

They could have the same splash and market enthusiasm that Pivot has mustered in the last couple of years since coming out. They used the latest known and proven technology, made their frames far prettier than the competition, and set forth with good customer service and bikes that people would not unreliable. Corsair totally had this chance and blew it. 

I do hope they learn some business sense from this and make the proper changes. But as of now, the Corsair name does not hold the same hype it did over a year ago. :nono:


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## axolotl (Apr 24, 2008)

YoPawn said:


> dude that sucks so bad!
> 
> I'm not sure if Corsair can survive this bad of an entry into the MTB market with their frames. I've been saying for several years now. If Corsair would just make a damn simple traditional bike with the attention to aesthetics and design they show to have, then they might have made a solid place for themselves in the market. Instead they seem to be drinking a bit too much of their own Kool-Aid and totally missed the highest priority for making frames; RELIABILITY. The Konig is the only suspension frame they make that I have seen people riding and with no issues at all. Super solid bike.
> 
> ...


I can see your point. But the maestrom is gotta be one of the nicest designs out today. Why not fix the issues, make it reliable, and an awesome ride! I would hate to see this bike go away because one thing isn't working. Corsair has a good challenge to get in this market, but I sure hope they don't become just another producer of brand x technology.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Then they need to step up to the plate and help with information or let people know they have some ideas on how they will fix the issue. Ignoring emails and disappearing from the forums is not a good sign. 
The worst part is not the fact that the bike needs constant work its more the mental issue of wondering whether the drive chain has locked up when you committed to a high speed corner or jump etc.
An expensive mistake for me.


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## YoPawn (Mar 26, 2008)

axolotl said:


> I can see your point. But the maestrom is gotta be one of the nicest designs out today. Why not fix the issues, make it reliable, and an awesome ride! I would hate to see this bike go away because one thing isn't working. Corsair has a good challenge to get in this market, but I sure hope they don't become just another producer of brand x technology.


I'm not sure if there IS a solution to existing frames. They would have to make some major changes to make everyone more happy.

I know it's not good business sense to let the public know forthright about any downsides to your product, but Corsair really did hammer me about any questions with reliability before the frames came out. Made it sound like they had tested this design and it was flawless. I'm starting to think they were spending too much money on perfecting the design and eventually had to say ship the damn things already and fix any issues after the fact of release. I work on $60 million + projects in the video game industry and we make decisions like this all the time. It's business and sometimes if you try taking too many risks, you run out of money with no product to ship and sell or one that is sub par in quality.


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## axolotl (Apr 24, 2008)

*Hope there is*

I've seen that too. I worked for a company that set timelines for software production base on their sales department.


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## Kyle509 (Jul 19, 2006)

juan pablo said:


> Then they need to step up to the plate and help with information or let people know they have some ideas on how they will fix the issue. Ignoring emails and disappearing from the forums is not a good sign.


Corsair has a forum on Ridemonkey. Its appears "freshw00d" logs on there on a semi-regular basis. Might be able to hunt him down there..


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## JSUN (Jun 22, 2004)

JP what kind(s) of chain(s) have you been using? And how many links do you remove if any?


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

Jsun - I used to snap SRAM chains a couple of years back when I was on a coiler and Patriot. I switched to Shimano and have stuck with them since. I run a medium cage XT shadow rear mech and cut my chain to the recommended length, largest rear sprocket to largest front ring and add 2 links. Hope I explained that correctly.


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## Fury25 (Oct 22, 2008)

Hi Guys,

My Maelstrom build is almost ready (will be running a Hammerschmidt).

Quick question to those with more nouse than me.

If the pulley jam issue remains unresolved going forward, what would happen if we did not rout our chains through the puley - i.e. roted the chain more like a std bike?


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

The rear wheel has rearward travel as part of the design. The idler/roller compensates for the rearward travel. You cannot route the chain traditionaly.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

The original pulley is ally right? and they went to a plastic roller right?

IMO the solution is to go for a hardened steel pulley built like the original ally one, it needs to be super tough to handle the high stresses its put under, not softer... Might be a little heavier but it would likely work.


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

essenmeinstuff said:


> The original pulley is ally right? and they went to a plastic roller right?
> 
> IMO the solution is to go for a hardened steel pulley built like the original ally one, it needs to be super tough to handle the high stresses its put under, not softer... Might be a little heavier but it would likely work.


How about something like the Titanium pulley that comes on Canfield Jedi's?


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

didn't know its ti, but mentioned the jedi eariler.

Corsair are not the first company to put an idler in that sees full chain tension, it just seems they don't get why they are all out of high tensile materials and that the solution to something wearing under high tensile stresses is not to make it out of a softer material...


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

essenmeinstuff said:


> The original pulley is ally right? and they went to a plastic roller right?
> 
> IMO the solution is to go for a hardened steel pulley built like the original ally one, it needs to be super tough to handle the high stresses its put under, not softer... Might be a little heavier but it would likely work.


Damn, it seems Corsair is getting a really bad rap because of all this.. Yopawn chimes in every chance he gets! I wish they would get their game together and make an idler pulley like Essen describes. The stupid thing is that the only thing i can see wrong with the old idler (apparently there is also a newer steel version with the same problem), is that the sidewall is too short. All that is necessary is making it with sidewalls that go up to the roof of the chain tunnel, so that the chain can't hop up there!!

I've also stopped using my original idler and had a new one made from pvc plastic. I'm still waiting on Corsair for new idlers and some other parts that i asked for. The idler i had made is a wide one, which has worked great for the last few weeks, and fyi, i pedal this bike a LOT, and over very rugged terrain. The only problem is that the groove in the idler which was used the most, is now the deepest, and so the chain only uses that groove.. not good for chainlne. Although that groove doesn't seem to be getting any deeper now that the chain has settled in, as far as wear is concerned. 
Today i had a new one made, similar to the old original one, but plastic and with high sidewalls. I think that should be good for a while. My machinist suggested we try something out of stainless steel or bronze.. we'll see. (i'm using 2 19mmx6mm bearings btw.)
Plastic is cool because its quiet, but if a metal one can last a looong time without any problems.. hm.

JP: bout this stuff with the shot bearings around the BB. I noticed while assembling the rear end the second time around, that i had those 2 bolts way too tight. All the bolts in the rear end can be snugged down nicely.. but not those 2. As you tighten em you can cycle the swingarm, and you will feel when its too much. Even smooth new bearings will seems notchy if the bolts are overtightened.
And about your chain snapping.. did you change it after using the old idler? Because if not, you probably had some weak links on there because of the jamming the old idler caused. How much have you used that roller btw?? It doesn't look like much wear so i'm curious if its because of the 'composite' material or just not much pedal time.

I'm still really stoked about this frame.. i use it for absolutely everything from urban-xc-dh. That's why i have to chime in. The only real problem is the damn idler, which i'll probably solve myself before Corsair even send my order. 
Other than that, Corsair REALLY has to find a solution for the idler if it turns out that the new roller is also a dud.

Oh, and btw JP, you really gotta try that inner tube trick i mentioned a while back. It totally gets rid of any noise in the chain tunnel, it's practically invisible, and i haven't touched it or even thought about it since i put it in there.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

PsyCro - please give me more info about the inner tube method. I have tried a few things and have just stripped and cleanned all the crap out to start again. I cant find velcro with backing tape here so I bought velcro and tape seperate. Didnt last so well, the tape stuck real good to the frame but the velcro peeled off the tape. A real job to clean. I tried inner tube and double sided tape which was okay but the chain also rubs the edges of the tunnel and I tried to fold the tube over the edge but the tape doesnt hold for this profile. I also tried a thin foam on the upper side of the tunnel with tube for the rest. The foam lasted well except the edge right behind the roller. The thing I found is not to put anything between the roller and frame or too close, it can cause the chain to play games. There are so many profiles going on in the there and it makes it hard to cover them well. A real PITA to clean again! Geartech had a great idea about taping the swing arm and dipping it in a liquid rubber, I just cant find anything that would work here. I really miss Suuth Africa where I could find everything.

The new bearings are in, $80 worth, and the linkage feels smooth. I agree about the pinch bolts but they seemed good when I backed them off originaly. This is from factory but putting them back I have tried to just nip them up and rely on the locktite to hold them. Cant believe how rough they were. The shaft and spacers on both ends of the shock were tight with grime so I cleand the DU bushings, shafts and spacers and they feel smooth again. Between the new bearings and cleaning the shock mounts I hope the suspension will feel more alive.

So down to the roller. I think we have the exact same idea here. The original roller seemed to suffer from thin flanges and being a little to low. The new roller doesnt quite fit in the tunnel and seems like a slopy idea with 5 small bearings and a couple of washers to shim. I am thinking that a strong but not brittle plastic that is machined to be like the original roller could work. The new roller gets groves and messes with the chain. I have some polypenco I would like to try if I can find a machinist. I want to turn a roller that will have thick enough flanged edges that are high enough and with a single grove for the chain. 2 bearings pressed in so it will be more like the original roller.

Please keep us updated with your progress and if I can get the materials and machinist I will let you know if it works out this side.


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## PsyCro (Jun 8, 2007)

Hey JP. I'll post some pics of the inner tube trick asap. Today i tried the new plastic idler, on a 65km ride, but no luck with it (i just put back the original idler and some material onto the roof of the chain tunnel). It worked fine for a while, but eventually the bearings came out of it. The plastic probably deforms a bit around the bearings and that was the end of that. But anyways, by looking at the plastic wide roller i used before, it seems that it actually wears down too quickly.
If i could find a different plastic that doesn't wear as much, push one bearing into the middle from one end where it then comes to a different inner diameter so it can't go any further, and have a sort of 'cap' which screws in behind and onto the bearing to keep it in place, that could be a good solution for a plastic idler. I might look into that, but on Monday i'm going over to the machinist and having him make a metal idler with high flanges so that the chain can't hop up onto them. That will be the end of that. A little noise, but who cares.


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## juan pablo (Jan 17, 2007)

PsyCro-in case I didnt explain myself clearly about my plastic roller idea, I realised I am basicaly just trying to make a durable version of a lower chain guide roller. I found some nice rubber matting at work and spent a couple of hours cutting accurate shapes and testing a few ideas out, used goog old double sided tape again and will find out this week how it works. I hope it goes well cause cleaning the tape off sucks. The bearings are in and the linkage rotates smoothly again. I fitted a Gamut guide and just need to trim the top guide. chain is not clearing it. I wont know if the chain line has improved till I ride but I think it is the same deal. 

I spent a long time stripping and reasembling and considering the number of times I have worked on the bike I am pretty sure that if there are more issues I will have to give up the bike.


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