# First MTB, one, two... my head is spinning... HELP! Trek, Cannondale?



## Bumer (Dec 8, 2011)

Hi all,

My name is Vlad, and I'm new here, and looking for advise(s) to my search for my first MTB.

Actually, this would be almost my first mountain bike. My very first bike was some crappy full suspension mongoose that weighted a ton about 6 years ago. It felt like pedaling the tank riding on that horrendous thing. Because of that I never really enjoyed mountain biking.

<<< rewinding about couple month back <<< I decided to get bike to do some trails, so I got hybrid DB ~$300. I did not like that bike, partly because that thing almost killed me, when front breaks malfunctioned and locked, stopping front wheel and making me fly like a bird over handlebars onto the pavement. So, I took it back to SA and replaced it with K2 Astral 2.0 700cc, which is much-much better. I do enjoy riding on this bike and do about 20-22 miles when I go on trails. I'm sure there are tons of better bikes out there, but for the price I paid for it (~$300 with 3 years extended warranty, including 3 yearly tune-ups), and what it can do for me, I think it suits me well.

That being said, because I enjoy biking on trails, I'd like to do some mountain biking.

It seems like choosing first (almost) mtb can be uneasy and daunting task. Since I never really did any mtb, buying expensive awesome mtb does not seem like a great idea. Year or two down the road it will make more sense to upgrade, but for now I need some intro beginners bike.

*UPDATE 2:*

I'm still working on my list, but here is what I'm coming up with:
Trek:

Wahoo
 Marlin
 Mamba (highly unlikely, out of my budget)

Felt:

Nine Trail
 Nine Sport (very unlikely, out of my budget)

Scott:

Aspect 29
 Scale 29 Comp (would be out of my budget, but one lbs has 2011 on sale for $699)

Cannondale:
Trail SL 29er 5
 Trail SL 29er 4
 Trail SL 29er 3 (highly unlikely, out of my budget)

Still working on adding Giant bikes to my list.

*BREAKING UPDATE:* 

Had issues with shifting on my K2 hybrid bike, took it to SA and they could not fix it right away. So, now my bike is "waiting" for advanced tech. I had that bike for less than a month, and already having issues. Not big deal, I guess, for hybrid bike (and especially for price I paid for it), but I want good quality mtb that I can depend on.

The list shrank down to Trek (from original) and now I also considering Cannondale:

Trek 3500 Disc $450
Trek 3700 Disc $500
Trek Wahoo $570
Trek 3900 Disc $600
Trek Marlin $650

Marlin is probably the highest I can consider based on price point.

Cannondale Trail 6 $550
Cannondale Trail 5 $650
Any other Cannondales?

*OLD STUFF:* I visited LBS, and also Sports Authority. At SA I can get mountain bike for half the price I'd have to pay at LBS. And for my first bike I don't want to spend more than $500-$600.

These are the bikes I am currently looking at:

*DB Topanga* (has some great reviews) and can be bought for ~$300.
*DB Men's Overdrive 29er Mountain Bike* - 425$
*DB Overdrive Comp* - $550
*K2 Men's Zed 4.6* (has no reviews, but looks similar to DB Topanga) and can be bought for $300.
*K2 Shadow Nine* (has no reviews) but it's 29er, also can be bought for $300, and it looks great. 

My options for buying similar bike both in specs and price range in LBS would be:

*Trek 3500 Disc* ~$450
*Trek 3700 Disc* ~$500
*Trek Wahoo* ~570
So, what your thoughts are, especially strong objections to either of the bikes.
Please, if possible, don't recommend other bike brands, as it's already hard to process all information, so I can stay within the three brands above.

Thank you very much!

Vlad


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## sayzawn (Jul 15, 2011)

Welcome aboard, you came to the right place! Look around, read some reviews, go take some test rides and you are on your way!!


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## Cappy407 (Aug 23, 2011)

My recommendation would be to buy from your local bike shop. Yes the price may be slightly more than you'll pay at Sports Authority, but your local LBS will usually carry better bikes, and the extra price typically includes free tune ups, test rides, fittings, trade ins, warranty help, information, etc. that you just won't get at Sports Authority. Any of the entry level bikes from the bigger name manufacturers that your local bike shop carries will be similar in spec. Trek, Spec, Giant, etc. will all have quality bikes in your pricepoint. Best bet is to go and test ride some (even if it's in the parking lot) and see what geometry feels best to you. My other piece of advice would be to buy the most bike you can afford for a few reasons. At the lower pricepoint/entry level, you'll usually get more "bang for your buck" as specs increase. This isn't always the case in higher end models, but holds pretty true at the entry level. Second, it's typically more expensive to upgrade components later since manufacturers buy in bulk. Third, you'll also have more fun on a more capable bike as it sounds like you've already experienced. Many people give up on mountain biking because their first experience is on a cheap low end bike that is more work to ride than fun. That doesn't mean you have to break the bank, just buy the most bike you can comfortably afford.

Of the three brands you listed, Trek is easily the one I would recommend.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Used bikes can be a great way to stretch a buck. So can year-end closeouts. See if your shop will work with you on a 2011 bike, or maybe even an older one. Phone around and see if anyone carries used bikes - most decent-sized cities support at least one used shop.

From your list, I'd probably lean toward the Diamondback Overdrive (preferably the Comp) or the Trek Wahoo.

A big problem with buying a bicycle from a mass market retailer is that it's very important that they be assembled correctly, if you don't know how to do it yourself. You should learn to maintain your own gear, but it's easier if you start from something that's functioning well. You know where to set your expectations and you're also a lot less likely to damage incorrectly-installed components before you figure out there's a problem. So you might see if you can get an Overdrive from a shop. Or just get the Wahoo.

Check out parktool.com for specific, well-illustrated instructions for tuning pretty much anything on a bike. And, do some easier stops to get used to the brakes on the next bike you buy.


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

If you're around 6', you may want to grab one of these Commencal in Large size while they have 'em. Best winter deal I've seen for a good hardtail. Doubt they last long.

Commencal 2011 Premier Pro PSR Build from Hucknroll.com.


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## Bumer (Dec 8, 2011)

ccs1676 said:


> Welcome aboard, you came to the right place! Look around, read some reviews, go take some test rides and you are on your way!!


Thank you! Lot's of info here, lots to learn. If only my brain could digest bit chunks of information faster. 



Cappy407 said:


> My recommendation would be to buy from your local bike shop. Yes the price may be slightly more than you'll pay at Sports Authority, but your local LBS will usually carry better bikes, and the extra price typically includes free tune ups, test rides, fittings, trade ins, warranty help, information, etc. that you just won't get at Sports Authority. Any of the entry level bikes from the bigger name manufacturers that your local bike shop carries will be similar in spec. Trek, Spec, Giant, etc. will all have quality bikes in your pricepoint. Best bet is to go and test ride some (even if it's in the parking lot) and see what geometry feels best to you. My other piece of advice would be to buy the most bike you can afford for a few reasons. At the lower pricepoint/entry level, you'll usually get more "bang for your buck" as specs increase. This isn't always the case in higher end models, but holds pretty true at the entry level. Second, it's typically more expensive to upgrade components later since manufacturers buy in bulk. Third, you'll also have more fun on a more capable bike as it sounds like you've already experienced. Many people give up on mountain biking because their first experience is on a cheap low end bike that is more work to ride than fun. That doesn't mean you have to break the bank, just buy the most bike you can comfortably afford.
> 
> Of the three brands you listed, Trek is easily the one I would recommend.


Thanks! Last night I took my K2 hybrid to SA for minor (what I thought) adjustment, because I have to push shifter two times for front gear to go from 2nd to 3rd. Tech at SA said he could not fix it, and that "advanced" tech will have to look at it. If I might not care much for hybrid bike, I don't want this kind of quality for mtb. That being said, SA is off the table for mtb, and I'm going to visit few bike shops in my area.

Just as you said, I did notice lots of upgrades on lower end models as the price goes. Will definitely try to set comfortable budget for mtb, and try to work with bike shops to get best bike for that amount. Sounds like a good plan, right?

Now, with SA out, Cannondale should probably make it on the list.



AndrwSwitch said:


> Used bikes can be a great way to stretch a buck. So can year-end closeouts. See if your shop will work with you on a 2011 bike, or maybe even an older one. Phone around and see if anyone carries used bikes - most decent-sized cities support at least one used shop.
> 
> From your list, I'd probably lean toward the Diamondback Overdrive (preferably the Comp) or the Trek Wahoo.
> 
> ...


Thank you!. After my visit to SA last night, I'm in complete agreement about mass market retailer. Bikes from SA are off my list.

I got a list of few bike stores around me, and planning on visiting them in next few days. Some have Trek's only, some have Cannondale's, some have both. May be I can score good deal on 2011 model.



rlouder said:


> If you're around 6', you may want to grab one of these Commencal in Large size while they have 'em. Best winter deal I've seen for a good hardtail. Doubt they last long.


Thanks! That bike does look good and price looks good too. But for now, I'll just go to LBS so I can see it, touch it, and get measured. May be even ride around the block if the let me.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

The shifter problem is probably not particularly reflective of anything but that tech's competence, and maybe the job that was done cabling the bike.

You really need to learn how to tune your own drivetrain. It won't behave on the trail quite the way it does on a repair stand. Sometimes these problems turn out to be things that are more complicated to fix, but you need to understand the indexing adjustment. See the parktool.com article about rear derailleurs.


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## Bumer (Dec 8, 2011)

AndrwSwitch said:


> The shifter problem is probably not particularly reflective of anything but that tech's competence, and maybe the job that was done cabling the bike.
> 
> You really need to learn how to tune your own drivetrain. It won't behave on the trail quite the way it does on a repair stand. Sometimes these problems turn out to be things that are more complicated to fix, but you need to understand the indexing adjustment. See the parktool.com article about rear derailleurs.


Absolutely, it could be just tech competence, which just confirm what you said earlier. If I'm not particulary worried about things like that happening on hybrid bike, I'm much more concerned about things assembled correctly for MTB.

Thank a lot for the great link!


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## gillotte (Oct 22, 2011)

You might want to toss in Specialized, Giant, and Felt in there too?


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## Cappy407 (Aug 23, 2011)

gillotte said:


> You might want to toss in Specialized, Giant, and Felt in there too?


I'd agree. Take a look at those in addition to Trek and Cannondale if your LBS carries the other brands. Find a good shop, ask lots of questions, ride as many bikes as you can, and have fun!

As the others have said, you'll eventually want to learn how to tune your own bike, but that will come in time. Basic tuning is pretty simple and some LBS even off classes on basic bike mechanics. Highly recommended if you're more of a hands on learner. Good luck and be sure to let us know what you get!


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## Bumer (Dec 8, 2011)

gillotte said:


> You might want to toss in Specialized, Giant, and Felt in there too?





Cappy407 said:


> I'd agree. Take a look at those in addition to Trek and Cannondale if your LBS carries the other brands. Find a good shop, ask lots of questions, ride as many bikes as you can, and have fun!
> 
> As the others have said, you'll eventually want to learn how to tune your own bike, but that will come in time. Basic tuning is pretty simple and some LBS even off classes on basic bike mechanics. Highly recommended if you're more of a hands on learner. Good luck and be sure to let us know what you get!


Thank you guys for great suggestions! I went to several bike shops on Friday and Saturday. :thumbsup: Now my list includes Trek, Cannondale, Giants, Scott, Felt. None of lbs I visited had Specialized, so I'm not adding it to my list.

One thing about going to bike shop is being able to see the real thing. Which is great... because now I'm leaning toward 29er (few weeks ago I did not even know such a thing ).

This also helps with choosing a bike, or at least make it easier. There are not many 29er out there as there are regular 26".

Another thing, it's just like Cappy said, with incremental price increases you get much better "bang for your buck". That means that I maybe I should \stretch my budget little bit more... What do you think?

I'm still working on my list, but here is what I'm coming up with:
*Trek:* 
Wahoo
Marlin
Mamba (highly unlikely, out of my budget)
*Felt:* 
Nine Trail
Nine Sport (very unlikely, out of my budget)
*Scott:* 
Aspect 29
Scale 29 Comp (would be out of my budget, but one lbs has 2011 on sale for $699)
*Cannondale:* 
Trail SL 29er 5
Trail SL 29er 4
Trail SL 29er 3 (highly unlikely, out of my budget)

Still working on adding Giant bikes to my list.

Perhaps I should move discussion to 29er forum?


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## mark l (Nov 14, 2011)

I went through the same thing, ended up buying a specialized hardrock 29er, nice bike for price, but anything you get is going to have lower end compenents, that are heavy. I have upgraded fork and wheels for weight saving, big improvement. To do over, would buy a used high end bike.


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

rlouder said:


> If you're around 6', you may want to grab one of these Commencal in Large size while they have 'em. Best winter deal I've seen for a good hardtail. Doubt they last long.
> 
> Commencal 2011 Premier Pro PSR Build from Hucknroll.com.


you mean 5'. they only have S and XS available.


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## Hobbs305 (Oct 22, 2011)

When I first started to mountain bike, I purchased a Trek 4500 Disc (2006 model). The 4500 was a good bike that met my expectations. I have up-graded to a Trek Fuel EX 8, but still still ride (and enjoy) my 4500. It's taken a beating but continues to be strong. 

I do not have any experience with the bikes on your list, but I like the way Trek bikes fit me. Whatever you choose (which appear to be a good list), make sure you test ride it often and that it fits your body size. Best of luck!


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## rlouder (Jun 26, 2007)

Jwiffle said:


> you mean 5'. they only have S and XS available.


You snooze, you lose. Turns out it didn't help the OP anyway since he's not interested online bikes.

Burner, it sounds like you're set on new, but you should really consider a used bike, too. The bikes you are looking at are just your basic entry level type stuff that you may quickly outgrow. Bikes depreciate quickly, and many people buy them, only to find mtn biking isn't for them. You can get a lot more bike if you can find one.

Have you checked your local craigslist? The different brands in the same price range will be essentially the same - a run of the mill frame with comparable components across the brands. With a local used bike you would be able to ride it to ensure correct fit and could even have it inspected if needed. With any bike (new or used) you will need to put some miles on it before you will know how to fine tune the fit - saddle position, handlebar height.....

Good luck.

edit -- Don't know where you're located in CT or what size you need, but this C'dale sl4 looks interesting if your set on a 29er: 2010 CANNONDALE SL4


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

trek- the wahoo has cheesy single-wall rims and a cheesy fork. if you ride hard, you will hate the pogo stick fork right away and be replacing the wheels within a few months. $$$ 
marlin- the rims are better but still the cheesy fork. after-market forks are expensive!
mamba- worth the initial higher cost! nice RS fork, decent wheels, much better brakes, and better drivetrain. save up for that bike and you will save a lot of $$ in the long run.


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## Cappy407 (Aug 23, 2011)

I have to disagree with advising someone to purchase their first bike used. While it is true you can find great deals on used bikes (my most recent purchase was used off Craigslist), I wouldn't recommend it for a first time buyer unless you have an experienced friend to help you. There are just way too many things to be knowledgeable about to make a used purchase wisely. Also, consider the overall costs of ownership. If you bought it used, over the course of a couple years, you'll probably end up spending more money on trips/repairs/tune ups at the LBS that would normally be free/discounted if purchased new. At the entry to low-mid level, there just isn't enough savings in buying used to really offset the additional benefits to buying new. You'll also have peace of mind - you'll get a warranty (none of the bike companies you mentioned will honor a second hand warranty) and if there is anything that concerns you about your bike, you can just take it in to the shop. You could even earn valuable experience trying to tune up your own bike, knowing that if you can't get it right, a quick trip to the shop will have you back on the trail. Some shops will even offer a trade in if you decide to upgrade in the future. All of the above is easily worth a couple hundred dollars you might save if buying used at this level. I would, however, HIGHLY recommend buying a last year close out. You still get a price break, and all the benefits of buying new. It's a win-win. This year in particular, many manufacturers have increased the price due to increased costs in materials without really improving much in spec. 2011 models are a great deal right now and most shops like to get to rid of aged inventory. 

With regard to Giant, I've never owned one, but considered them several times. They usually offer a good value compared to other bikes in the same pricepoint/bracket while still offering great quality. If your looking at 29ers, the lower level Giant Talon 29er is the only one I can think that would be in the same price range.


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## Estral (Sep 24, 2007)

Vlad. What an awesome name.


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## gillotte (Oct 22, 2011)

Surprised noones said he should look into Giant or Specialized or Jamis for his list:devil: Like Specialized Hardrock, Giant Revel 0, Jamis Exile.

edit: Oops reread and a few did mention it. Are you set on a 29er?


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## Bumer (Dec 8, 2011)

mark l said:


> I went through the same thing, ended up buying a specialized hardrock 29er, nice bike for price, but anything you get is going to have lower end compenents, that are heavy. I have upgraded fork and wheels for weight saving, big improvement. To do over, would buy a used high end bike.


Then you know how uneasy this is.  I will try to get to lbs that carries specialized bikes. There are not many around, thats the problem.

By the time I'm ready for bike upgrade, I will probably be looking at used bikes as well. But not right now, since I have no idea how to pick used bike. Another thing, right now I don't know what to do and how to do basic adjustments on a bike. So, I'd like LBS to back me up on that with year or so of free tune ups and adjustments.



Hobbs305 said:


> When I first started to mountain bike, I purchased a Trek 4500 Disc (2006 model). The 4500 was a good bike that met my expectations. I have up-graded to a Trek Fuel EX 8, but still still ride (and enjoy) my 4500. It's taken a beating but continues to be strong.
> 
> I do not have any experience with the bikes on your list, but I like the way Trek bikes fit me. Whatever you choose (which appear to be a good list), make sure you test ride it often and that it fits your body size. Best of luck!


Agree, Trek does look very good: I looked at Wahoo and Marlin (have not seen Mamba yet). I'm imagining it's going to be long time before I make my choice, which will include test rides and lots of questions, and trips to different LBS.



rlouder said:


> You snooze, you lose. Turns out it didn't help the OP anyway since he's not interested online bikes.
> 
> Burner, it sounds like you're set on new, but you should really consider a used bike, too. The bikes you are looking at are just your basic entry level type stuff that you may quickly outgrow. Bikes depreciate quickly, and many people buy them, only to find mtn biking isn't for them. You can get a lot more bike if you can find one.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the link! That is in my area, but I just don't think I'm ready to get used bike. Bummer, since that one is on my list, and price seems reasonable. One of LBS here sells 2011 model for $750, which is also not too bad, considering it's new, and I can get warranty and tune ups with that.



mack_turtle said:


> trek- the wahoo has cheesy single-wall rims and a cheesy fork. if you ride hard, you will hate the pogo stick fork right away and be replacing the wheels within a few months. $$$
> marlin- the rims are better but still the cheesy fork. after-market forks are expensive!
> mamba- worth the initial higher cost! nice RS fork, decent wheels, much better brakes, and better drivetrain. save up for that bike and you will save a lot of $$ in the long run.


Thanks for the advise. I've heard not too good things several times in last few days about Suntour forks. The fork alone could probably push me to step up to bit more expensive bike, like Mamba vs Wahoo and Marlin. As long as getting better fork did not result in getting worse other components.



Cappy407 said:


> I have to disagree with advising someone to purchase their first bike used. While it is true you can find great deals on used bikes (my most recent purchase was used off Craigslist), I wouldn't recommend it for a first time buyer unless you have an experienced friend to help you. There are just way too many things to be knowledgeable about to make a used purchase wisely. Also, consider the overall costs of ownership. If you bought it used, over the course of a couple years, you'll probably end up spending more money on trips/repairs/tune ups at the LBS that would normally be free/discounted if purchased new. At the entry to low-mid level, there just isn't enough savings in buying used to really offset the additional benefits to buying new. You'll also have peace of mind - you'll get a warranty (none of the bike companies you mentioned will honor a second hand warranty) and if there is anything that concerns you about your bike, you can just take it in to the shop. You could even earn valuable experience trying to tune up your own bike, knowing that if you can't get it right, a quick trip to the shop will have you back on the trail. Some shops will even offer a trade in if you decide to upgrade in the future. All of the above is easily worth a couple hundred dollars you might save if buying used at this level. I would, however, HIGHLY recommend buying a last year close out. You still get a price break, and all the benefits of buying new. It's a win-win. This year in particular, many manufacturers have increased the price due to increased costs in materials without really improving much in spec. 2011 models are a great deal right now and most shops like to get to rid of aged inventory.
> 
> With regard to Giant, I've never owned one, but considered them several times. They usually offer a good value compared to other bikes in the same pricepoint/bracket while still offering great quality. If your looking at 29ers, the lower level Giant Talon 29er is the only one I can think that would be in the same price range.


Thanks again Cappy for your input! :thumbsup: That is my thinking exactly in regards to getting used bike: I just don't feel confident right now to afford to buy used bike. I want someone (lbs) to have my back if bike needs adjustments. And if something wrong with the bike, I'd like to have warranty on it.

Almost all bike shops I visited also mentioned that 2012 models slightly went up in price, without any improvements. Definitely, if I can score good deal on 2011, that would be great. Hopefully by the time I am done with my research they will still be around. 

Still working on adding Specialized and Giant to my detailed list.



Estral said:


> Vlad. What an awesome name.


You should get rep for that. :thumbsup: Thank you!



gillotte said:


> Surprised noones said he should look into Giant or Specialized or Jamis for his list:devil: Like Specialized Hardrock, Giant Revel 0, Jamis Exile.
> 
> edit: Oops reread and a few did mention it. Are you set on a 29er?


Yep, working on adding Giant and Specialized to my list. :thumbsup: Thank you!
After talking to several bike shops, I think I'm set on a 29er. Sounds like it offers many benefits for beginners.


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## SgtBaxter (Jul 2, 2011)

Cappy407 said:


> With regard to Giant, I've never owned one, but considered them several times. They usually offer a good value compared to other bikes in the same pricepoint/bracket while still offering great quality.


Giant started out as solely a frame manufacturer, and to this day they are the largest frame manufacturer if I recall. Those aluminum Trek bikes you see at your LBS? The frames were manufactured by Giant. They make frames for a LOT of other bike manufacturers.


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## Bumer (Dec 8, 2011)

Guys, thank you all very much for the input. 
As I narrowed type of bikes to 29ers, I created new thread in 29er forum.

Feel free to participate there. :thumbsup:


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