# Bike/encouragement advice for hubby??



## SANDTOAD (Aug 2, 2005)

I figured if I want some advice on helping my wife enjoy riding more, this would be the place to ask.

Over the last year, I've been riding every chance I can get, usually weekend mornings, and my wife made mention she would like to go with me sometime. Well, while shopping at Wal-mart, she decided to buy a bike... Bad decision. 24" wheels, crap full-suspension. She hates the bike. And therefore has not enjoyed riding. Luckily, this past weekend for our first anniversery, we went to Sedona Az, after voicing she hated riding the trails, I convinced her to try my 17" hardrock. She felt alot more comfortable. Even with my "hard as a rock" seat. 

Ok, so having said all of that, I'm starting to look for a bike for her, but of course she scoffed when I told her I was thinking of spending a minimum of around $400. "I only paid $80 for the Wal-mart bike!" And you hate it says I...

She's 5' 2", 135 lbs. I'm hoping to make her feel more confident about riding trails, so in turn we can ride more together. I'm thinking of looking into Trek's WSD bikes, or maybe specialized. Comfort is a big thing with her as well, but I really don't want her on a "comfort bike" on some of the trails we might tackle in the long run. I'm pretty open though, any suggestions would be great.

I'd like to motivate her a little too, but of course when I tell her about flying down this hill and catching some pretty good air (which would motivate my male friends), this doesn't seem to go over well...  I hope I haven't given you the idea that she's a girly girl. She loves hiking, 4x'in, nature in general, and we could both loose some weight (Me clydesdale), I think this is the ideal way to go.

Thanks in advance...


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Does she understand what the difference between a BSO ( bicycle shaped object) and a real bike is, that will be critical to success here, I think. 
Because, a well fitting real bike is going to cost more,but not tons more. 
You think she really wants to go? Take her to a lbs explain the budget, help her to get educated, and let her select a bike. 

As for the trail experience itself, there are gobs of thread here in the WL, go back a few pages and I'm sure you'll get to most of them, lots of advice and experience there.

formica


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## Hello Kitty (Sep 3, 2004)

SANDTOAD said:


> I figured if I want some advice on helping my wife enjoy riding more, this would be the place to ask.
> 
> Over the last year, I've been riding every chance I can get, usually weekend mornings, and my wife made mention she would like to go with me sometime. Well, while shopping at Wal-mart, she decided to buy a bike... Bad decision. 24" wheels, crap full-suspension. She hates the bike. And therefore has not enjoyed riding. Luckily, this past weekend for our first anniversery, we went to Sedona Az, after voicing she hated riding the trails, I convinced her to try my 17" hardrock. She felt alot more comfortable. Even with my "hard as a rock" seat.
> 
> ...


My advice to you:

1) Be careful what you wish for.
2) Seriously, be careful what you wish for.
3) Encourage her to have high, not low, expectations of her riding. As a coach it is very easy to inadvertently encourage lazy and/or fearful riding. She may need (not necessarily like) to be pushed to get passed the crap-rider stage.
4) Flirt with her when she rides. Some guy on this board offered this idea up, and although I have never actually seen it employed, intuitively I think it's perhpas the best advice on this subject that I have ever heard.
5) Make her get a good bike.

Good luck to you and her!

Good luck.


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## SANDTOAD (Aug 2, 2005)

Hello Kitty said:


> My advice to you:
> 
> 1) Be careful what you wish for.
> 2) Seriously, be careful what you wish for.


Yeah, sometimes she does talk...

kidding, KIDDING people!

I love my wife to death! I have to, she's the only one that'll put up with my crap...


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## mtbrae (Oct 11, 2005)

*i agree*



Hello Kitty said:


> My advice to you:
> 
> 1) Be careful what you wish for.
> 2) Seriously, be careful what you wish for.
> ...


AS a girl that was inspired to ride by the guy that rode...
for the first 4 + months of riding i rode his 19" 1997 rigid mongoose ( before goose was walmart) now i am only 5'0".i have to agree with what both hello Kitty and formica had to say it is extremely important to have at least a decent bike and one that fits. at some point i decided i needed my own bike, i was bit by the bug. it was suggested to me to save up $400 and go to some races and buy a used ( usually only for 1 year), but once istarted going to shops and test riding i was to impatient to wait. so i didn't end up with the bike i ultimately wanted , but i am still happy. i spent 400. I do prefer hardtails i like to feel the ride. i even like the rigid - its now sentimental. anyway good luck


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## jonnyp (Sep 1, 2005)

Look for a bike that offers a 13 or a 14 inch frame. I'm 5'2" and I ride a gary fisher opie with a 13" frame. I paid $350


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## Bikergal (Oct 10, 2005)

SANDTOAD said:


> I figured if I want some advice on helping my wife enjoy riding more, this would be the place to ask.
> 
> Over the last year, I've been riding every chance I can get, usually weekend mornings, and my wife made mention she would like to go with me sometime. Well, while shopping at Wal-mart, she decided to buy a bike... Bad decision. 24" wheels, crap full-suspension. She hates the bike. And therefore has not enjoyed riding. Luckily, this past weekend for our first anniversery, we went to Sedona Az, after voicing she hated riding the trails, I convinced her to try my 17" hardrock. She felt alot more comfortable. Even with my "hard as a rock" seat.
> 
> ...


First, I agree with others are saying take her to the lbs and educate her, I think this helps alot with fear and interest. 
Secondly, ask her what kind of riding she would like to do, maybe now she wants simple trails but later on will want more diffcult trails. Also, make it ENJOYABLE, take a little picnic with you when you do go riding ( I promise this will work in your favor). And just always remember to make it fun. This is when she will get more excited about the better bikes, always tell her how much she has improved and just tell her that you like to ride with her.
I think for now act like her husband and not her buddy and it will go further for you in the long run, then one day she will be inspired to surprise you!!! 
Oh, as far as you telling her she looks hot on the bike. YES this works for ME!!! Makes me go FASTER!!!!


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Bikergal said:


> First, I agree with others are saying take her to the lbs and educate her, I think this helps alot with fear and interest.
> Secondly, ask her what kind of riding she would like to do, maybe now she wants simple trails but later on will want more diffcult trails. Also, make it ENJOYABLE, take a little picnic with you when you do go riding ( I promise this will work in your favor). And just always remember to make it fun. This is when she will get more excited about the better bikes, always tell her how much she has improved and just tell her that you like to ride with her.
> I think for now act like her husband and not her buddy and it will go further for you in the long run, then one day she will be inspired to surprise you!!!
> Oh, as far as you telling her she looks hot on the bike. YES this works for ME!!! Makes me go FASTER!!!!


lol....don't say that. So...when you are told that....you go faster to try and escape?


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## Bikergal (Oct 10, 2005)

kawboy8 said:


> lol....don't say that. So...when you are told that....you go faster to try and escape?


Depends who is chasing me!!!


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## mtbrae (Oct 11, 2005)

*13" bike*



jonnyp said:


> Look for a bike that offers a 13 or a 14 inch frame. I'm 5'2" and I ride a gary fisher opie with a 13" frame. I paid $350


I too ride a 13 specialized spent 400. anyway maybe because i rode a bike that was way too big for me the 13 has felt too small. i know that specialized run a "shorter" frame . 
Did you get fitted? I am only 5'0 by the way


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## SANDTOAD (Aug 2, 2005)

Thanks for the input all. I know the lbs manager well, so I'm sure I can talk him into an extended demo session. And thanks to the lady who suggested a 13-14" frame. I don't think I've ever seen a frame under 15". That's the stuff I was looking for.

Thanx again!


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*WSD bikes*

It's been said before in other threads, but be careful about setting your sights on a WSD design before your wife has actually tried a variety of bikes. WSD bikes work well for some women but not for others. She should try several bikes, and, if possible, get a professional fit. When I got my first bike, a GF Tassajara, I didn't really know what I was looking for fit-wise. I was happy enough with it for 4 years until I got a new bike professionally fit, and now I'm uncomfortable when I ride the Tassajara because my body position feels all wrong. Also, I ride a lot better now, and I think part of that is having my body positioned better over the bike.

Finally, Hello Kitty is probably going to flame me for this but I disagree that women need to be pushed rather than coddled. I'm sure it's true for some women, but not all. I tend to advocate the positive route, i.e., giving her compliments when she does something well, letting her know how much you love riding with her, flirting along the trail, etc. You know your wife better than I, but I think it's far better to err on the side of being supportive/encouraging than pushing her along to the point where she gets frustrated and doesn't want to ride with you anymore. It's tough to be a coach and husband at the same time...if she does end up "needing" to be pushed, encourage her to go to a camp where someone else (not you) will be doing the pushing.

Best of luck!


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## Hello Kitty (Sep 3, 2004)

alaskarider said:


> Finally, Hello Kitty is probably going to flame me for this but I disagree that women need to be pushed rather than coddled. I'm sure it's true for some women, but not all. I tend to advocate the positive route, i.e., giving her compliments when she does something well, letting her know how much you love riding with her, flirting along the trail, etc. You know your wife better than I, but I think it's far better to err on the side of being supportive/encouraging than pushing her along to the point where she gets frustrated and doesn't want to ride with you anymore. It's tough to be a coach and husband at the same time...if she does end up "needing" to be pushed, encourage her to go to a camp where someone else (not you) will be doing the pushing.


Nah, no flaming. I just believe that most women are physically capable of much more than they think they are; and that most women set their expectations of their physical selves much too low. And I think that alone keeps them from riding much stronger and better than they're capable; and that hinders their progress much, much longer than necessary.

I guess it's that I see a lot of women who ride well. But I see few genuinely impressive women riders. And I see a lot of very good women riders walking crap that they're entirely capable of riding! Finally, I see those very good women riders encouraged to stay stuck at less than optimal level because too many people applaud too loudly at what are truthfully moderate achievements.

I love it when I see very impressive women riders. There SHOULD be more of them.


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Hello Kitty said:


> Nah, no flaming. I just believe that most women are physically capable of much more than they think they are; and that most women set their expectations of their physical selves much too low. And I think that alone keeps them from riding much stronger and better than they're capable; and that hinders their progress much, much longer than necessary.
> 
> I guess it's that I see a lot of women who ride well. But I see few genuinely impressive women riders. And I see a lot of very good women riders walking crap that they're entirely capable of riding! Finally, I see those very good women riders encouraged to stay stuck at less than optimal level because too many people applaud too loudly at what are truthfully moderate achievements.
> 
> I love it when I see very impressive women riders. There SHOULD be more of them.


You are right...blowing smoke, overly pumping anyone up for medicre ridng doesnt do anything, for anyone. I took a group to our DH place here. There were about 8 people...in this group was a couple and the husband kept yelling out "you doing great baby"....which is cool, if the trail would have been even remotely tough. The only thing that would have made this trail easier would have been to pave it. I was leading this group...and could hear him back there. As we rode, I lead, speeding up...then slowing on spots that might me a little tough for a beginner, to warn them. After a while this woman started to talk trash...and said "Matt...I bet you never thought a chick would be able to do this... ha ha". I responded with "yeah...your doing great"...then went on to tell the group what was coming up. So we took off...at the next spot I thought they may need some coaching...I waited and waited. After a long wait here comes the group....seems the lady tipped over in a corner. I asked if she was ok...and she told me she was done...."no more mtn biking for me...I have a family to take care of". I guess the piont of this is that...she acts like she was extreme mtn biking...when she could have done more damage in her front lawn.


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## Bikergal (Oct 10, 2005)

Hello Kitty said:


> Nah, no flaming. I just believe that most women are physically capable of much more than they think they are; and that most women set their expectations of their physical selves much too low. And I think that alone keeps them from riding much stronger and better than they're capable; and that hinders their progress much, much longer than necessary.
> 
> I guess it's that I see a lot of women who ride well. But I see few genuinely impressive women riders. And I see a lot of very good women riders walking crap that they're entirely capable of riding! Finally, I see those very good women riders encouraged to stay stuck at less than optimal level because too many people applaud too loudly at what are truthfully moderate achievements.
> 
> I love it when I see very impressive women riders. There SHOULD be more of them.


Miss Kitty, I agree with you TOTALLY, thats why I ride with GUYS who are WAY better then me. They push me past my threshold point and it has made me a stronger rider.

But when it comes to a husband riding with a wife I think you have to be easy at first to keep her interest up in the activity. I think if you come on too strong then this freaks them out. Not all girls are like ourselves and want nor desire that pushing that we do. Also, lets look at reality most of the girls I know are not even interested in biking like myself, yea they want to tool around with the bike for a few hours but they are not into it like I am. I want to race, I want to feel pain, but these girls who want to bike with their husbands are doing it more for the fun of riding with their spouse, not the physically demanding challenge you and I are looking for.

OK, my 2cents, I'm done.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

There can definately be some different dynamics when it's couple thing than when you are out with a bunch of folks riding.


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## Hello Kitty (Sep 3, 2004)

Bikergal said:


> Miss Kitty, I agree with you TOTALLY, thats why I ride with GUYS who are WAY better then me. They push me past my threshold point and it has made me a stronger rider.
> 
> But when it comes to a husband riding with a wife I think you have to be easy at first to keep her interest up in the activity. I think if you come on too strong then this freaks them out. Not all girls are like ourselves and want nor desire that pushing that we do. Also, lets look at reality most of the girls I know are not even interested in biking like myself, yea they want to tool around with the bike for a few hours but they are not into it like I am. I want to race, I want to feel pain, but these girls who want to bike with their husbands are doing it more for the fun of riding with their spouse, not the physically demanding challenge you and I are looking for.
> 
> OK, my 2cents, I'm done.


Very, very true. Dynamics within a relationship add a dimension to this question.

I'll only add that the coddling phenomenon we're talking about here that goes on with women, also exists in and outside of a marriage; to each other and by the men in their lives. My point being that the "cheerleading" that women say they want, and think that "supports" them, in reality has a hindering effect, that resonates throughout their entire lives. Physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Of course, this is just my opinion. I'm wrong about a lot of things.


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

Hello Kitty said:


> Very, very true. Dynamics within a relationship add a dimension to this question.
> 
> I'll only add that the coddling phenomenon we're talking about here that goes on with women, also exists in and outside of a marriage; to each other and by the men in their lives. My point being that the "cheerleading" that women say they want, and think that "supports" them, in reality has a hindering effect, that resonates throughout their entire lives. Physically, emotionally, and spiritually. Of course, this is just my opinion. I'm wrong about a lot of things.


lol....yeah...like you believe that. (that you're wrong). I am kidding...you know that....right?


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## aword4you (Jul 25, 2005)

I'm going to post this here rather than starting a new thread, hope that's okay, and it's related to what everyone's been discussing (pushing, ability, etc.). This is long, so I apologize in advance 

I've been mountain biking since mid-August (less than 2 months), but we ride at least once, usually twice a weekend, and have done a few evening rides. I've been on about 10-11 different trails total in So Cal, Sedona, and Phoenix. I still get off my bike to walk a rock section at the easiest trail I ride (I've fallen on it twice, so I guess that makes me nervous, even though I just scratched my elbow, no big deal). But mostly I ride all the trails, which aren't very technical, but are still challenging enough to make them interesting. 

I went on the hardest trail I've been on last week and I didn't have a lot of fun with it. I don't think I was really prepared for the experience. In addition to probably not eating as much as I should have, I don't feel like I had the bike handling skills for the trail at all. It isn't a super easy trail, but there have been plenty of people posting lately that it isn't technical, no one should walk it, no one should have problems with it, etc. I'm assuming these are just pretty advanced riders. 

My main point and question is, how long does it take everyone else out there to become more proficient? I know it's hard to measure one person against another when discussing ability. But, should I be able to ride advanced trails already, or is this something that takes months or years? I don't ride with any other new riders, so it's hard for me to judge whether I should be better than what I am and should be pushing myself more, or if I'm going at an okay pace. 

One of the trails we ride regularly I rode maybe half of it my first time out there. It was the second trail I'd been on with my bike. The third time out I rode the entire trail. It's mostly fire roads, but the climbs are somewhat grueling in the heat, and there are some water ruts and sand in areas. On one of the local 24 hour courses I can ride just about everything except for one loose sand downhill section that is rutted and pretty technical, and I haven't ridden up the famed boulder either. 

I'm not looking for anyone to coddle me or tell me that I'm doing really well. I'm mostly just curious as to what everyone else has experienced in trying to gain ability, and how quickly most of the riders out there advance in ability and skill, and move on to more technical trails.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

awordforyou, I can only go from my own experience.

Once I understood my learning style, which benefits from coaching, ( as compared to just thrashing down a trail or "go for it") I made huge leaps in my ability. Fitness aside, once I got some skills coaching on how to do things, broken down into increments, with the why of it explained,that's when I really started progressing instead of just being frustrated. For me, it meant progressing more in three months than in the previiosu three years.

So, if you understand your learning style ( whatever it is) , try and find riders who match it and I think you'll be able to progress faster.

RIght now I have a new riding friend who thinks just like me, and it's a blast. She's a fit newbie, and she'll try just about anything *if* I explain to her what she needs to do be prepared skills-wise... it's almost frightening how much fun we are having.

good luck

Formica


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## Hello Kitty (Sep 3, 2004)

aword4you said:


> I'm going to post this here rather than starting a new thread, hope that's okay, and it's related to what everyone's been discussing (pushing, ability, etc.). This is long, so I apologize in advance
> 
> I've been mountain biking since mid-August (less than 2 months), but we ride at least once, usually twice a weekend, and have done a few evening rides. I've been on about 10-11 different trails total in So Cal, Sedona, and Phoenix. I still get off my bike to walk a rock section at the easiest trail I ride (I've fallen on it twice, so I guess that makes me nervous, even though I just scratched my elbow, no big deal). But mostly I ride all the trails, which aren't very technical, but are still challenging enough to make them interesting.
> 
> ...


My advice to you is to ride all the trails, and not to avoid trails you that you _think _ you're incapable of riding. If you get in over your head (which you will) and run into some stuff you can't ride (which will happen, perhaps a lot at first), you can always walk your bike; so there's no real danger in riding trails that are beyond your abilities now.

A word of advice: When you walk a section of trail, up or down, make sure to turn around and view it from the opposite end. A lot of time what seems "unridable" isn't, and looks a lot less daunting from the other side. If from the other vantage point you happen to see the ridable line that was at first ellusive to you? Well just turn around and give it a try.

If anything, you'll get used to those kind of trails, learn to see the lines, and best yet, see other riders (men and women) making things that you _think _ you can't, and your mindset will change. Eventually you'll get sick of walking stuff and you'll raise your bar. And what you see and practice on the harder trails you can apply on the easier trails, and you'll start making progress faster than you think you will.

IMO riding is about 80% mental, 20% physical. Change your perception of what's ridable and lo and behold, it becomes ridable.


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## Bikergal (Oct 10, 2005)

aword4you said:


> I'm going to post this here rather than starting a new thread, hope that's okay, and it's related to what everyone's been discussing (pushing, ability, etc.). This is long, so I apologize in advance
> 
> I've been mountain biking since mid-August (less than 2 months), but we ride at least once, usually twice a weekend, and have done a few evening rides. I've been on about 10-11 different trails total in So Cal, Sedona, and Phoenix. I still get off my bike to walk a rock section at the easiest trail I ride (I've fallen on it twice, so I guess that makes me nervous, even though I just scratched my elbow, no big deal). But mostly I ride all the trails, which aren't very technical, but are still challenging enough to make them interesting.
> 
> ...


These are all good questions and let me tell you more about my background, I starting mountain biking in 94, I rode a trail at the time by my house twice a day with the guy I was dating. I HAD NO FEAR at that time in my life, I was able to ride trails by myself and not have many worries. I was good in my eyes. Then I gave up riding (long story) COMPLETELY, just this year I took up roadbiking and then met another guy who wanted to mtbike with me. I was I guess you can say new to mtbiking again. I went riding with this guy and it was hard for me, I got off the bike when before I never got off the bike. 
I guess what I am saying is that for me it was like retraining myself all over again. We have rode some trails that I would say are DIFFCULT and I did walk but who cares right, I will bike those trails again and keep biking them tell I don't get off my bike. I want to race so I'm pushing myself HARDER now.

As far as you are concerned I think you doing great, it does take time to gain control of your bike, gain skill etc. Its hard to compare yourself to others to soon cause your level of riding. Just keep training and keep riding and find partners that can challenge you on the bike.


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## kawboy8 (May 5, 2004)

aword4you said:


> I'm going to post this here rather than starting a new thread, hope that's okay, and it's related to what everyone's been discussing (pushing, ability, etc.). This is long, so I apologize in advance
> 
> I've been mountain biking since mid-August (less than 2 months), but we ride at least once, usually twice a weekend, and have done a few evening rides. I've been on about 10-11 different trails total in So Cal, Sedona, and Phoenix. I still get off my bike to walk a rock section at the easiest trail I ride (I've fallen on it twice, so I guess that makes me nervous, even though I just scratched my elbow, no big deal). But mostly I ride all the trails, which aren't very technical, but are still challenging enough to make them interesting.
> 
> ...


I am sure others will have a longer take on it...but to me, if your having a good time, and improving...then you will become more proficient in no time. Try to test your skills without stressing yourself out. You have been riding for a short time, but it sounds like your having fun. I know you will say "duh" on this one...but the nerve factor is usaully tougher than the actual obstacles on the trail. If that makes any sense.


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## aword4you (Jul 25, 2005)

Thanks for the responses! I mostly was just curious if at after a few months of riding I should be able to do a lot more than I am. I think I do okay, and most of the trails we ride are still somewhat challenging. I'm sure I could ride more than I do at times, but hopefully I'll gain confidence in time. 

Basically I think I'm going to hold off on doing San Juan and Noble anytime soon (in so Cal). I don't mind a lot of mileage, or climbing. I do get frustrated when I end up walking a lot of the trail (it's much more tiring than riding, which just makes it more frustrating that I'm afraid to stay on the bike), but I also like checking out new trails. Will have to keep trying. That, or wear my protective gear all the time just in case


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*good points*



Hello Kitty said:


> I just believe that most women are physically capable of much more than they think they are; and that most women set their expectations of their physical selves much too low.
> ...
> I love it when I see very impressive women riders. There SHOULD be more of them.


And I think we agree to a point...actually, I think it's not just women who are applauded for accomplishments that are merely mediocre in our society, but that's a big digression.

I think overall that the drive to become better has to come from within, and that many women who ride don't really care whether they can clear that rocky section as long as they're out there enjoying nature, improving their health, spending time with loved ones, or whatever. And I think that's fundamentally OK. Not everyone has to be a top athlete. For the women (or men) who truly want to improve, whose passion is obvious, then you're right that excessive applause will hinder rather than help them. (I still think it takes a very special relationship for a spouse to succeed at coaching.)

From my own experience, I've competed nationally in cross-country skiing and earned a Ph.D. in electrical engineering. While I certainly had support from family and friends I succeeded in each because I wanted to, not because somebody else thought I should go farther. I've been in a situation where my school wanted me to apply for a prestigious scholarship because it would help the school's image and set a good example for women, but it wasn't the right thing for me and in the end I just ended up feeling resentful about the pushing.

On the other hand, I'm an intermediate-level mountain biker because I don't have the time or drive to commit to improving right now. And I'm happy. I love riding and I will continue to do so and continue to improve at my pace and not worry about whether I would be improving faster if my fiance were a more forceful coach. Does that mean I'm not setting a good example for newer women riders? If so, I don't really worry about it because I think we all have to choose our own ways to make a difference.

OK, I'll get down off my soap box now and finish with the compliment that I love the inspiration I get from those of you women who hang out here who are more passionate and better riders than I am, so keep it up.


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## SANDTOAD (Aug 2, 2005)

*Wow, some great stuff in here!*

I think there is some great insights, and tips that would be useful in different situations.

We BOTH have some weight to loose, but we are both physically strong and sound. She can throw a football just as well as I can. Point is I know she could do extremely well, if she could get past that "uncomfortable" period. What I mean is that ANY repetative excersize can get uncomfortable when the intensity is more than what you expect. And I try to point out that her recovery time is very short, the aches and pains are gone really quick compared to other things we've done.

She does respond well to encouragement on the trail, and I think throwing in some flirting on rest breaks will do alot as well.

We went to the LBS Saturday, and got her on the Specialized Hardrock Women's, and she was really happy with it (Not to mention the flat blue paint was awesome). My buddy has a Trek at the other shop that we're going to look at today. I think she understands the difference now and is wanting a better bike. It didn't hurt that last night we went on a ride and she flatted, so I ended up having to go back and get my truck cause I didn't have tools for her bike...(Walmart bikes don't come with skewers, and my 26" tube won't go in her 24" tire.) I'm just glad the ordeal didn't upset her, but instead turned on a light.

Thanks for all the encouraging advice and insights, I'm sure we'll be up to speed in no time!


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Bikergal said:


> But when it comes to a husband riding with a wife I think you have to be easy at first to keep her interest up in the activity. I think if you come on too strong then this freaks them out. Not all girls are like ourselves and want nor desire that pushing that we do. Also, lets look at reality most of the girls I know are not even interested in biking like myself, yea they want to tool around with the bike for a few hours but they are not into it like I am. I want to race, I want to feel pain, but these girls who want to bike with their husbands are doing it more for the fun of riding with their spouse, not the physically demanding challenge you and I are looking for.
> 
> OK, my 2cents, I'm done.


Sorry for resurrecting this thread, but it is in the sticky 
This is true. It was much easier also with a GF instead of a wife even if the person happens to be the same.

I found that at the beginning she did not understand what to be afraid of and had no fear, even though I said "woah! careful there" now it seems she has too much fear and walks things that are easily ridable. She started on a trek 8900 btw. Now she has a palomino that fits her well which should be enough bike for anyone.

We passed thru moab (her first time) and rode a bit of the practice loop, (which meant I rode and she walked almost all of it  ), but then we did klondike bluffs and she loved it (that is an easy ride though and has dinosaur tracks on it). She absolutely bombed down though. I have no idea if she really understood how fast she was going, but it was a blast.

Anyway the rambling post is b/c I still don't know what to do to encourage her without making her upset that I am pressing her to hard to try things that are difficult. I have never found the proper line apparently. It seems completely random to me when she will suddenly decide to try something challenging or not and that makes the ride a weird experience as you mostly stop and wait and then you are worried about slowing her down when you stop where you should not...

I try letting her go first so she learns to pick her line and what not, but it seems to have no real effect.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Vary the rides*

Not every ride needs to be a shred-fest. In fact I think early rides should focus on basic cycling skills and mtb should come after that. Learning cycling skills and managing the changes in grade and surface at the same time is a lot to ask.
One way to vary the rides it to run errands on bikes or find interesting paved destinations. ride to the bike shop and share the vibe. All these rides add up and creat a broader context for teh expereince. She will learn the difference between the different surfaces and goals and this will be meaningful.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

sxotty said:


> Anyway the rambling post is b/c I still don't know what to do to encourage her without making her upset that I am pressing her to hard to try things that are difficult. I have never found the proper line apparently. It seems completely random to me when she will suddenly decide to try something challenging or not and that makes the ride a weird experience as you mostly stop and wait and then you are worried about slowing her down when you stop where you should not...
> 
> I try letting her go first so she learns to pick her line and what not, but it seems to have no real effect.


My 2 cents:

The only thing I would suggest is to tell her that if she sees something technical she's afraid to ride - let her know you'd be happy to stop, walk ahead to look at it/discuss a line, and then demonstrate it for her if that would help, and you're open to hiking back up to try it more than once if she feels like it.

But don't pressure her to do that - if she says no, I don't want to try it - let it go.

The feeling I get reading your post is that you're trying to control the situation. You want her to take more risk in some places and less in others. She's an adult. Yes, maybe she hasn't realized yet how much it will hurt to wreck at speed, but maybe she just feels comfortable and is having fun. We all take risks riding, and I'm betting that if she's nervous about other aspects of riding, it hasn't escaped her attention that she could get hurt if she wrecks going fast. Give her a little credit.

I guess ultimately, what I'm saying is to quit trying to boss her around.  It's her body to take risks with and it doesn't have to make any sense to you. I've been racing DH for 5 years now and there are still things that I don't like to ride that make no sense to my husband (always involving exposure). Everyone has their own phobias, and I don't think anyone ever overcame their fear to learn to do something because they were pestered into it. They have to want to do it on their own. Let her enjoy her ride the way she wants to. If she wants help/advice - she knows to ask for it.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

connie said:


> My 2 cents:
> 
> The only thing I would suggest is to tell her that if she sees something technical she's afraid to ride - let her know you'd be happy to stop, walk ahead to look at it/discuss a line, and then demonstrate it for her if that would help, and you're open to hiking back up to try it more than once if she feels like it.
> 
> But don't pressure her to do that - if she says no, I don't want to try it - let it go.


I made a big effort to do this the last time and she had a really good (meaning fun) ride actually, though she walked the two sketchy spots (one really steep 20 foot hill, other was off camber traverse). Those were the only spots I showed her how to do. It seems as if I point out something that might be difficult it is frightening, but if I forget to mention something either it works out fine, or she splats. Stopping every short while can get tedious though especially when she has ridden far harder things in the past. (That means I need to work on my patience more I know).



> The feeling I get reading your post is that you're trying to control the situation. You want her to take more risk in some places and less in others. She's an adult. Yes, maybe she hasn't realized yet how much it will hurt to wreck at speed, but maybe she just feels comfortable and is having fun. We all take risks riding, and I'm betting that if she's nervous about other aspects of riding, it hasn't escaped her attention that she could get hurt if she wrecks going fast. Give her a little credit.
> 
> I guess ultimately, what I'm saying is to quit trying to boss her around.  It's her body to take risks with and it doesn't have to make any sense to you. I've been racing DH for 5 years now and there are still things that I don't like to ride that make no sense to my husband (always involving exposure). Everyone has their own phobias, and I don't think anyone ever overcame their fear to learn to do something because they were pestered into it. They have to want to do it on their own. Let her enjoy her ride the way she wants to. If she wants help/advice - she knows to ask for it.


That is true I suppose, though I only tried to get her to calm down the first two rides when she had no idea how badly she might get hurt, after that it was mostly encouragement or saying. "This section is kind of tricky if you want to try it do X" She never even really rode a bicycle as a child so when we started dating it was her first effort. I was actually impressed in a way how quick she picked it up at first, but it seems to have completely plateaued now and her skill just bumps around better or worse than the same level.

Anyway I guess the only answer is to ride more often as was suggested even if the rides are not really mountain biking at all.


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## deanna (Jan 15, 2004)

sxotty said:


> Anyway the rambling post is b/c I still don't know what to do to encourage her without making her upset that I am pressing her to hard to try things that are difficult. I have never found the proper line apparently. It seems completely random to me when she will suddenly decide to try something challenging or not and that makes the ride a weird experience as you mostly stop and wait and then you are worried about slowing her down when you stop where you should not..


If there's a group near you that has women's clinics/rides, especially if there's other beginner riders, try to get her to go on one of those... and you need to stay home. Really.

On past rides with beginner women, as well as having been an instructor, I've heard many comments from other women on how they were willing to try more things after seeing another woman ride it successfully. Being in a group that's testosterone free seems to help them a lot.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

deanna said:


> If there's a group near you that has women's clinics/rides, especially if there's other beginner riders, try to get her to go on one of those... and you need to stay home. Really.


Deanna beat me to it.

What she said.


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## NicoleC (Sep 28, 2007)

I was very fortunate to be introduced to MTBing by a man who was also a good teacher and a very patient person. Due to time and distance constraints, we never got to the point of anything other than the biking version of the kiddie pool (which frankly, I am still at from lack of practice), I did have the benefit of being introduced to things like picking out a good bike and basic riding technique and basic bike care from someone who was pretty good at it. And since I had already repeatedly seen the results of, erm, "biking miscalculations," I wasn't going to be cocky about the tough spots.

Of course, he thought of those kiddie pool rides as foreplay, which no doubt improved his patience.  But still, few men (or women) are going to be teachers at that level, and the only downside was massive bike envy (from me). If she is genuinely interested in learning to bike better, suggest that SHE find a clinic. If she doesn't do it... well, you have your answer.

I'd love a women's clinic myself.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

NicoleC said:


> If she is genuinely interested in learning to bike better, suggest that SHE find a clinic. If she doesn't do it... well, you have your answer.
> 
> I'd love a women's clinic myself.


Now that sounds like a good idea  (Or maybe I am just lazy). She really can technically do a pretty good job now, it is just the fear and a few bad habits.

Like she never stands up to pedal up hills, she only stands when coasting over rough stuff or on descents to get behind seat. She says and I don't know whether it makes sense as I am not her, that basically her knee is not very stable when she stands and pumps up hills. Anyway thanks for the advice and hopefully it will work out well.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

sxotty said:


> Now that sounds like a good idea  (Or maybe I am just lazy). She really can technically do a pretty good job now, it is just the fear and a few bad habits.
> 
> Like she never stands up to pedal up hills, she only stands when coasting over rough stuff or on descents to get behind seat. She says and I don't know whether it makes sense as I am not her, that basically her knee is not very stable when she stands and pumps up hills. Anyway thanks for the advice and hopefully it will work out well.


 one is that if her knee feels funky it might be time to check saddle and or cleats position, and two, many people don't mash/stand going up hills. So what if she doesn't stand for climbing. It's terrible for your knees, and if you are geared properly for climbing there are many situations where you shouldn't have to stand to climb.


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## PennyRich (Jul 13, 2003)

I'm with Formica on this one. You are expending more energy when you climb standing up, not to mention reducing rear tire traction and control.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

formica said:


> one is that if her knee feels funky it might be time to check saddle and or cleats position, and two, many people don't mash/stand going up hills. So what if she doesn't stand for climbing. It's terrible for your knees, and if you are geared properly for climbing there are many situations where you shouldn't have to stand to climb.


Why would the saddle affect her when she is not on it? I can't know if her cleats are good b/c she is the one wearing them  I have asked if they seem to twist the foot and have clipped the shoes in before to make sure they were not funky.

I have always found that standing up adds power because your body weight is on the pedal pushing down, and you can go up steeper hills without flipping over on your back. I am not talking about long climbs (where you would need to be in excellent shape to stand the whole time), but short steep sections. Also I think there is more control because you can move forward to help the rear tire lift over obstacles then shift the weight back to make it dig in for traction...

Anyway I always found it weird. She would start from a standstill sitting which makes it quite difficult if you get stopped in a tricky spot. And she would sit on the seat and flip her foot over the top tube when she came to a stop, that was a recipe for disaster, but after the inevitable she quit that at least.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

sxotty said:


> Why would the saddle affect her when she is not on it? I can't know if her cleats are good b/c she is the one wearing them  I have asked if they seem to twist the foot and have clipped the shoes in before to make sure they were not funky.
> 
> I have always found that standing up adds power because your body weight is on the pedal pushing down, and you can go up steeper hills without flipping over on your back. I am not talking about long climbs (where you would need to be in excellent shape to stand the whole time), but short steep sections. Also I think there is more control because you can move forward to help the rear tire lift over obstacles then shift the weight back to make it dig in for traction...
> 
> Anyway I always found it weird. She would start from a standstill sitting which makes it quite difficult if you get stopped in a tricky spot. And she would sit on the seat and flip her foot over the top tube when she came to a stop, that was a recipe for disaster, but after the inevitable she quit that at least.


Cleats: there is an issue of "are they aligned correctly" It's not just a matter of clipping in. A few degrees either way can make a huge difference in knee comfort or pain. If she says her knees feel funky, have a bike pro check the alignment of the foot/cleat/knee relationship.

Standing power burst climbing, which is what you sound like you are talking about, is not a beginner technique and if she's a beginner, it's silly for you to expect her to do it. Out of saddle climbing using momentum to navigate tecchhy stuff... that is not a beginner technique either.

I'm liking the suggestion of finding her a nice gals' group to go with more and more.


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## jalopy jockey (Jun 7, 2007)

deanna said:


> If there's a group near you that has women's clinics/rides, especially if there's other beginner riders, try to get her to go on one of those... and you need to stay home. Really.
> 
> On past rides with beginner women, as well as having been an instructor, I've heard many comments from other women on how they were willing to try more things after seeing another woman ride it successfully. Being in a group that's testosterone free seems to help them a lot.


Couldn't agree more. My wife started riding a couple months ago. She wanted to see what I was enjoying so she came out to a group ride with me. decided she didn't want to ride with the group and she rode with me. enjoyed they ride some but couldn't stand it when I gave 'advice'. read bossed her around:nono: . The next week we were back did the group ride she took off with a couple of the women and fell in love with the sport. We've only just now started to ride together now that she's faster and the group is smaller due to the colder weather. She has leaned more watching those women do the tough stuff that she would have just thought was guy stuff had she stuck with me.

On the bike front hope you get her a good bike if she learns to love it, and a decent one if its just around town. Whoever said be careful what you wish for is oh so right. After riding the trails and at the suggestion of others to get rid of the Huffy. I had to talk her up to a Trek 4500 and I see spending some cash on some upgrades. Her new pedals cost more than her old bike, she's eyeing up disk brakes, and if she breaks anything it will be replaced with at least a level up from whats there, and periphial equipment has come in just about one lump sum. We just got her the shorts jerseys etc, now she needed lights, tights, jacket, etc. Not that I'm really complaining but careful what you wish for. But if you want her to enjoy it you need to equip her to suceede and be prepared to support her drive, and that may mean getting lost. It has worked wonders for me.


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## LadyDi (Apr 17, 2005)

Oops, deleted.


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