# Why Iron Horse Downhill bikes are so bad????



## mudmandh (Jul 24, 2004)

Got one SGS World Cup Downhill frame and I just can`t believe how bad they are!!!
The geometry of the frame is too bad to be true. Even with my 7 inch Boxxer with a taller crown the head tube angle is very steep making the bike unrideble on turns and drops. The wheel base is too short making the bike very unstable. 
All the pivots, links and even the rear wheel axel developed a huge play making the rear wheel to twist all over.
All right that Iron Horse Downhill team had amazing results last year but we all know that the racing bikes are diferent from the bikes that are sold to public. 
The Iron Horse dealer here in Brazil was a liar. The frame suposed to arrive in one week but just arrived in one month.
-	I recieved the frame with a wrong ahead set (it suposed to be a Cane Ceeek Pro and came with a FSA) so the Iron Horse dealer lied to me.
-	The frame came without some bolts and spacers. Yes missing parts!
-	The frame came without any owners manual, recipt or nothing that could prove that it was a legal sale and that I have any warranty.
-	The 5th element shock came with the spring with scracthes that looks it has been used and the body of the shock also came with many signals that is has been used. 
-	Instead of a 2004 model they sent me a 2003 model that everybody knows that has a link that crack.
-	The frame that I recieved has the stickers of the 2003 model but the pivot points are from the 2004 model what makes me real confused about what bike I have.
Sent an e-mail to Iron Horse Costumers Service complaining about the frame and the way that it was sold to me and got no answer.
Why Iron Horse don`t care about his clientes???
Thank you very much	
Flavio Martins (MudMan)


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

i know you aren't talking about a 2003 or 2004 iron horse sgs downhill bike.

The headtube angle is around 67, pretty much in line with other bikes.

The weelbase is around 44, chainstays are 17.5, again, pretty much in line with all other DH bikes..

If this geometry sounds bad to you, you probably need a bike that is EXTREMELY slack while being shorter, which would mean the ellsworth joker for you. The bike is literally a joke because with a 5" fork it is at like 67 or 68 degrees, and with a 7" boxxer....well it's basically a chopper. You should probably ride this chopper.

You should check with your distributer if your bike was missing parts, since he lied to you in the first place he is probably the root of these problems.

Everybody does not have 2003s with cracking links.

Your distributer is at fault (again) for sending you the wrong frame if you ordered a 2004.


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## DJrider04 (May 4, 2004)

They tend to be good to their customers, maybe you just lucked out with the dealer. Have you thought that you dont fit the bike well? From what ive heard its an amazing bike, for a great deal. Sounds like it also isnt setup right. 30-40% sag for the 5th, and the HA shouldnt be steep.....


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## snowskilz (Feb 19, 2004)

I'm sorry, but you've def smoked some wacky bud man.

IH bikes are solid, so far i have owned 3 different models and have loved each one. I think your local shop put the screws to you not ih. PM SKA TODD and he will give you the best answer since he works for them but man. IH Bikes rock. and for the money they rock. 

BTW 17.5 chainstays and 67○ HTA that bike would be so dope. oh and with a 5th on the rear. yum. i have an sgs with a swinger 3 way and thebike rocks my titties


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## mudmandh (Jul 24, 2004)

*!!!*

You should work with Iron Horse or selling Iron Horse bikes to answer me like that.
You can be good on numbers of angles and stuff but I can tell you that this bike sucks. You can see in the picture I sent that the head tube angle is not 66.5 or 67 like it is on Iron Horse web site. If I don`t have the taller higher crown of my boxxer the head angle would go to 70 something.Can you explain to me why the 2004 models has a very diferent and stronger link than the 2003 model?????
If you work on Cambria Bikes can you tell me if you have that Yeti DH-8 for sale becouse this is the bike I need???
If you can see in the picture I am a Downhill Racer and for sure a freeride Joker will not work for me. I need an old model DH-8 or a new DH-9.


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## snowskilz (Feb 19, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> You should work with Iron Horse or selling Iron Horse bikes to answer me like that..


I've owned IH bikes since 2002 and never once had a problem. any time i had a ? i called them and they worked with me immediately. If you were an informed consumer(which your not you would not be ranting like this)


mudmandh said:


> You can be good on numbers of angles and stuff but I can tell you that this bike sucks. You can see in the picture I sent that the head tube angle is not 66.5 or 67 like it is on Iron Horse web site. If I don`t have the taller higher crown of my boxxer the head angle would go to 70 something.Can you explain to me why the 2004 models has a very diferent and stronger link than the 2003 model?????.


No idea why the link is stronger. again become an informed consumer and call ih yourself



mudmandh said:


> If you work on Cambria Bikes can you tell me if you have that Yeti DH-8 for sale becouse this is the bike I need???
> If you can see in the picture I am a Downhill Racer and for sure a freeride Joker will not work for me. I need an old model DH-8 or a new DH-9.


I work for a cell phone company, not a bike company... Theres a simple saying out there: BUYER BEWARE.


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## VIA (Feb 12, 2004)

*You've got SCAM.*

Sorry man but that SUCKS big time..anyway good luck dealing with this now..


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## TheSherpa (Jan 15, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> Got one SGS World Cup Downhill frame and I just can`t believe how bad they are!!!
> 
> Why Iron Horse don`t care about his clientes???
> Thank you very much
> Flavio Martins (MudMan)


Sounds like your so called Iron Horse dealer is more like a cocaine dealer. He obviously isn't an IH dealer and if he is take it up with the importer for IH in Brazil and don't come rant about a well respected bike here lurker. Also, if you want a slacker head angle its safe to cut off your head tube and weld it on in a slacker position.

-TS


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Where's the pic you mention?*



mudmandh said:


> Got one SGS World Cup Downhill frame and I just can`t believe how bad they are!!!
> The geometry of the frame is too bad to be true. Even with my 7 inch Boxxer with a taller crown the head tube angle is very steep making the bike unrideble on turns and drops. The wheel base is too short making the bike very unstable.
> All the pivots, links and even the rear wheel axel developed a huge play making the rear wheel to twist all over.
> All right that Iron Horse Downhill team had amazing results last year but we all know that the racing bikes are diferent from the bikes that are sold to public.
> ...


This is a very odd post. I don't have an IH, but they've sold a ton of them, and many have been reported on here on MTBR and other places. I've never heard a litany of horror like you describe about IH in general or that specific model. Even really great bikes will occassionally get slammed on this site by some clueless whiners, but there has been extremely little negative feedback on just about any of these IH models. Much of your post seems to specify issues that sound dealer related. The head angle issue should be a fairly black and white issue. Surely someone else on this site has that number--and one that isn't pulled out of their XXX. Did the dealer you did this transaction with do some kind of black market deal possibly? All I'm trying to say is that this response is not even close to normal regarding a bike that has been purchased in relatively high numbers and reported on extensively.


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## BigDigger (Mar 29, 2004)

Yeah, that's a pretty odd post. I don't ride an IH, but I hear nothing but positives about them. I can understand build issues or bad components, but this guy seems to have issues with the geometry of the frame itself. Seriously, if the SGS DH had geometry issues, we'd have heard about it here about 10,000 times already. Further, I've sat on one in the store, and they are about as slack as you'd ever want.

mudmandh,

Giving you the benefit of the doubt (and based on your post there's a big doubt here), I recommend that you make further attempts to contact IH, but I seriously doubt that the frame left the IH factory in the condition you describe. Better yet, take the thing back to the guy who sold it to you, and tell him the bike is some sort of a chop-shop special and you don't want it.


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## biker3 (Jan 18, 2004)

*yeah dude..*

either your on crack or your dealer is. IH bikes are extremely well respected here on the board. Its obviously a problem with your dealer or the importer. That is a risk you take ordering from overseas and from an almost 3rd world country(no offense). As said before Id talk to ska todd and see what he has to say about it. BTW the bikes that nathan rennie and sam hill and Bryn atkinson rode last year on the WC circuit are the exact same frames with almost the exact same build that anyone can get from IH.


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

There are such things as lemons, but hey, Brazil is along ways away from New York. I have owned 2 IH bikes, they are rock solid, and i have had amazing results with the customer service. Ska Todd is the man, maybe you should have been alittle bit more carefull when u bought the bike, if was all banged up, tell them to get another one, never pay full price till u have everything YOU want.


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## offtheedge (Jul 6, 2004)

*Two champioionships..yeah they suck!*

Dude you are on crack! Either you don't get it or you got suckered. Same dimensions as any big player in Dh and a undisputed reputation for quality and customer service. And unlike almost all the other race teams both championships were won on off the floor bikes not some prototype with floor model stickers. Why don't you call IH with the serial #s and find out the real problem here is who sold it to you.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> If I don`t have the taller higher crown of my boxxer the head angle would go to 70 something..


You are definitely a crackhead.


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

well for a start he lives in brazil...

and the dealer would definatly be to blame for the majority of ur issues...what i cant understand is if the f-cking bike looked like an 03 which is very easy to tell and had 04 linkages which are also very easy to tell apart from the older ones...then when the f-cking bike came into the store why the hell did u take it and not ask for ur bloody money back...if i ordered a VP-Free and i got it with a bloody bullit rear triangle and a vanilla rc...id open hand (karate) the **** outta the fool who thought i was dumb to pass it off for one...

and plus ive ridden the current 04 world cup...and um no ur wrong...normal iron horse SGSs are very bloody good bikes...and the head angles are actually quite good for racing and the wheelbase is great...not only that but the new linkages were developed by e.13...same ppl if u dont know who bought the patiented design of Evils plastic chainguide...

and yeh i think u do need a DH-9...coz there great bikes...but cost alot tho (a built up one in aus can cost as much 12-14k its crazy)...


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## OneBlueJoker (Apr 15, 2004)

WOW!!! Go BJ its true you shouldnt have taken the bike in the first place...and everyone has problems with bikes hear and there so you should have just said i want the bike i ordered to the person!


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## Masher (May 18, 2004)

maybe it's not a real IH


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Yeah, maybe a Huffy with IH stickers.*



Masher said:


> maybe it's not a real IH


That would be the ultimate black market scam.


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

could be a 2001-2002 SGS...

those are definitely "short"


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

probably is...i say he gives the dam thing back...

(shame if his pic worked then we could tell him what year it was  )


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## mtbManiak (Jan 13, 2004)

Dude, maybe that's why it took a month for you to get your bike. Your bike shop got it in a week, saw how UB3R awesome it was and decided to take off the parts that they liked to build up their own bikes... if anyone scammed you i'd think it was the bike shop... good luck man!


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## BJ- (Jan 28, 2004)

heheheheheheh...ur avatar is kool...


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## mtbManiak (Jan 13, 2004)

BJ- said:


> heheheheheheh...ur avatar is kool...


made it myself...


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## MTBsSd (Jan 12, 2004)

nu uh, I made it...


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## mudmandh (Jul 24, 2004)

*sorry im from Brasil!*

sorry im from Brasil!
sorry i am a Downhill racer and I think this bike realy sucks.
I have a schwinn straight 8 that I rode since 2000 and there no complain about this bike. OK that the schwinn is USA made and the IH is taiwan so that is why the bike is so bad.
-If you dont know why the 2004 model has "much" stronger link is becouse you dont read bike magazines or .... The combination of e-13 with IH was no good.
-someone said that the bike is short and it realy is very short and unstable at speed.

I hate this Iron Horse bike, I am very disapointed with the Iron Horse brand, the Iron Horse dealer in Brasil and the IH costumers service.

I have many brazilian friends that got those Iron Horse bikes and they all said to me that they dont like the bike. We have 3 Downhill racers (including me) with international racing level that selling their Iron Horse frames and you think i am crazy.
Do you race Downhill or you are just a numbers lovers???
Thank you very much for your attention


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## finchy (Jan 21, 2004)

*i have an IH*

its pretty solid. it wasw i belev 500 cad. i upgraded it up nicely and it now has a vanilla R. since i put that on it has performed very well. i do agree though that the rear triangle does tend to be a tad flexy and the HA is too steep but this is a chepa bike, what do u expect form an entry level full susser.

it has since been replaced by my norco atomik, i hardly ever ride it now since the atomik is such a joy to ride!


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> -If you dont know why the 2004 model has "much" stronger link is becouse you dont read bike magazines or .... The combination of e-13 with IH was no good.


ROTFLMAO!


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## snowskilz (Feb 19, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> sorry im from Brasil!
> sorry i am a Downhill racer and I think this bike realy sucks.
> I have a schwinn straight 8 that I rode since 2000 and there no complain about this bike. OK that the schwinn is USA made and the IH is taiwan so that is why the bike is so bad.
> -If you dont know why the 2004 model has "much" stronger link is becouse you dont read bike magazines or .... The combination of e-13 with IH was no good.
> ...


you have throughly proved to this message board that infact your are an idiot. Thanks for stopping by. Go buy a new bike so you can tell us why that one sucks too


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## The Kadvang (Jul 25, 2004)

LOL! This thread also brings tears of joy to my eyes.


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## mudmandh (Jul 24, 2004)

Here is the message that has just been posted: 
*************** 
its pretty solid. it wasw i belev 500 cad. i upgraded it up nicely and it 
now has a vanilla R. since i put that on it has performed very well_. i do 
agree though that the rear triangle does tend to be a tad flexy and the HA 
is too steep but this is a chepa bike,_ what do u expect form an entry level 
full susser.

it has since been replaced by my norco atomik, i hardly ever ride it now 
since the atomik is such a joy to ride! 
***************


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## mudmandh (Jul 24, 2004)

*finaly someone who agree with me!!!*

finaly someone who agree with me!!!


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

Holy crap! look at my headtube angle!!!


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

Same image, rotated 66.1 degrees to the right. BTW, it's still slightly off from level, it may be more like 66.0° or 66.05°


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## The Kadvang (Jul 25, 2004)

Lol. Finchy wasn't talking about the Iron Horse SGS DH bikes, he was talking about one of their entry level, 'walmart' full suspension bikes, bearing no resemblence to the DH bikes. You are a tool.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*My God, Jm! Right outa Orange County Choppers!*



Jm. said:


> Same image, rotated 66.1 degrees to the right. BTW, it's still slightly off from level, it may be more like 66.0° or 66.05°


LOL! I'll bet it takes both lanes to run a dual slalom course on that rig! Actually, nice rig. Tell Paul Sr. hello for me. LOL!


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

Jm. said:


> Holy crap! look at my headtube angle!!!


 Reflectors?


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## mudmandh (Jul 24, 2004)

can you see this bike is diferent from mine???
you americans think you`re the best right?
good luck!!!
Brazil sucks right?
check out who got second place on the 5th world cup dh race!!!
Yes he is Brazilian!!!! Yes he ripped many americans racers asses!!!!
He is my friend!!!
You guys love to hate 3rd world people right???
thats why people hate americans, think they are the king of the world....


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## Jm. (Jan 12, 2004)

singletrack said:


> Reflectors?


Notice that the bike looks new.


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## binary visions (Jan 18, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> can you see this bike is diferent from mine???
> you americans think you`re the best right?
> good luck!!!
> Brazil sucks right?
> ...


 That's right. There are only Americans on this board.

Also, we all think you're an idiot simply because you're not from America. It has nothing to do with the fact that you think putting a Boxxer on a SGS frame gives it a 70 degree headangle. Considering Boxxers come stock on the thing...


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## ska todd (Jan 2, 2003)

mudmandh said:


> Got one SGS World Cup Downhill frame and I just can`t believe how bad they are!!!
> The geometry of the frame is too bad to be true. Even with my 7 inch Boxxer with a taller crown the head tube angle is very steep making the bike unrideble on turns and drops. The wheel base is too short making the bike very unstable.


I tried to open your pic but it won't open so I can't see exactly what frame you are talking about. From all that you write, it sounds like you have an 03 frame vs the 04. The 03's are a little steeper and taller than the 04's. If you use e13 cups and flat crowns you can drop your front end height. For wheelbase, we haven't had many complaints about that, if any! Generally, everyone wants shorter WB's.



> All the pivots, links and even the rear wheel axel developed a huge play making the rear wheel to twist all over.


It has been posted here on mtbr, on ridemonkey, and hcor about remedies to rear flex on 03 models. 04 linkages and swingarms are available from e13 as well.



> All right that Iron Horse Downhill team had amazing results last year but we all know that the racing bikes are diferent from the bikes that are sold to public.


Nope, you are 100% WRONG! ALL of the Madcatz team frames for the 03 season came right from the same productions as the bikes and frames did. There was nothing fancy or special about them. They were box stock frames.



> The Iron Horse dealer here in Brazil was a liar. The frame suposed to arrive in one week but just arrived in one month.


I personally cannot comment on the Brasil distributor as I have never met him or dealt with him as that is a function of the sales dept. I would suggest you email the Iron Horse sales dept about your experience with the distributor.



> I recieved the frame with a wrong ahead set (it suposed to be a Cane Ceeek Pro and came with a FSA) so the Iron Horse dealer lied to me.


The first batches of 03 frames came w/ Cane Creek XXc headsets. We then switched to FSA b/c of delivery problems from Cane Creek. Overall, the FSA is a better headset than the Cane Creek IMO. The 04 frames come w/ FSA IS headset and e13 cups.



> The frame came without some bolts and spacers. Yes missing parts!


This should have been reported immediately to the distributor.



> The frame came without any owners manual, recipt or nothing that could prove that it was a legal sale and that I have any warranty.


This is your fault honestly for not getting a proper receipt for your frame.



> The 5th element shock came with the spring with scracthes that looks it has been used and the body of the shock also came with many signals that is has been used.


Again, this should have been reported to the distributor.



> Instead of a 2004 model they sent me a 2003 model that everybody knows that has a link that crack.


There have been no cases of linkages cracking. Any swingarms that cracked get warrantied with the 04 swingarm.



> The frame that I recieved has the stickers of the 2003 model but the pivot points are from the 2004 model what makes me real confused about what bike I have.


All of the pivots on the 03 and 04 bike are the same. There was no change to the suspension system on the frame.



> Sent an e-mail to Iron Horse Costumers Service complaining about the frame and the way that it was sold to me and got no answer.


Please understand that we get A LOT of emails and cannot immediately respond to all of them. As always, if there is an urgent problem or question it is best to reach us by phone or thru a distributor.



> Why Iron Horse don`t care about his clientes???


Bruce, Travis, dw, and myself are probably the most customer service oriented guys in this business! Between all of the websites and emails we try our best to answer every question posted promptly and honestly.

-ska todd


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

mudmandh said:


> can you see this bike is diferent from mine???
> you americans think you`re the best right?
> good luck!!!
> Brazil sucks right?
> ...


in all seriousness, no, we can't see your bike, all we get is a big red x, please upload it to this site instead of posting a link to another site.


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## damion (Jun 27, 2003)

*Your location has nothing to do with it.*



mudmandh said:


> can you see this bike is diferent from mine???
> you americans think you`re the best right?
> good luck!!!
> Brazil sucks right?
> ...


Your race does not matter either. Relax. Try uploading your photo, so we can see what you are talking about.

There seems to be a bunch of IH riders on this board, so you have to understand when you go ripping the brand when it seems some of the issues are your own fault.


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## monk (Jan 30, 2004)

posted by mudmandh


> Do you race Downhill or you are just a numbers lovers???


HA HA...I have to admit this was a funny and appropriate buuurn!


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## Master_Jako (Mar 27, 2004)

mudmandh, i have never ridden any IH bikes and i dont know anything about them really. my friends tell me they are great race bikes and ill believe them, but thats not the point im trying to make. you really fuked up when you accepted the bike from your LBS in the condition it was in--it doesnt matter if Iron horses are good or bad bikes....if the bike was in such bad shape, why did you take it?. its your fault no matter what. you should of asked for your money back. listen to ska todd and follow what he said. im sure if iron horses were such bad bikes, peolpe would not ride them. but they do, and as i see in this thread, they will fight to the death defending them.


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## Weyvoless (Jan 20, 2004)

Ummmm....last time I checked, Brazil was in America.....South America.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

It's not because you are from Brazil that people are treating you the way they are, it is because you are a moron.


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## FJ40 (Dec 24, 2003)

Jm. said:


> Holy crap! look at my headtube angle!!!


WOW, it must feel like you are going down a hill while riding it.............on level ground  .

later


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## Tully (Jan 21, 2004)

Mudmandh, are you a relative of a guy who goes by the name "YesWayJay"?


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