# American M16



## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

So I have a lead on one locally (whodathunkit?) Issue is, while I lust after the welds, I have no experience with them otherwise. Any input? Issues common I should look for, etc. 

Also curious what you may have paid frame or bike, it's within my comfort zone, but digging around eBarf etc gave me zilch in terms of past valuations. I'd hate to find out after the fact that I should have lowballed the guy. Yeah, I know, kinda WIW, but in reverse of the norm, based on going prices for oddball uncommon bikes, it seems reasonable to me.......

Thanks all!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Check the Der hanger. I always thought the way they were riveted on kinda was a pain. With a little creativity, you can get around this. Release the rear QR and see if it is loose, if it is, jiggle it a bit in front of the seller to get him to lower the price. You can sneak nut and bolts in there instead although you may have to file a bit.


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## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

The one that just ended on Ebay had no action at a $485 buy it now.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

bmxcollector said:


> The one that just ended on Ebay had no action at a $485 buy it now.


He's been gradually lowering the price over the last couple months. I'm a little surprised no one hit it $485.


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## bmxcollector (Nov 21, 2006)

Maybe the shipping is throwing people off? I think the bike at the price is a pretty fair deal. Looks to be in very nice condition.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

Used to be a lot of those around here, since American was a Mid-western based company, (St. Cloud, Minnesota) They held up quite well, and the military spec anodization was awesome. They also did polished frames, which I didn't think were as cool. 

I have no idea on collectability, but I assume that some of the anodized colors they did might be rarer than others. I know they did an olive green, dark-teal-ish blue, and perhaps some others. 

Overall, I was impressed with them. 

The hangars are a pain, but we had good luck getting a local machinest to make us new ones back in the day for our locals that had Americans.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> ...while I lust after the welds ...


Yep the welds are nice too look at.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

laffeaux said:


> Yep the welds are nice too look at.


Thanks for all the input guys, both here and via PM. I saw that one on eBay, but felt that one data point wasn't enough, I feel better informed now....

laffeaux, funny you post that pic, it's one of my desk top pics in rotation, just delicious


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

if you get it, you know the routine.


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## proto2000 (Jan 27, 2007)

*Ahhhh*

Love the way they have the cables routed. More yummy welds by American.


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

I don't have a retro aluminum bike - but when the time comes it's between a TG/Rascal or one of these. Beautiful bikes.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

This thread is all actually just a ploy to get some more pics posted of really pretty welds


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Long term project.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Old friend


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

The Bus.

this photo has to be older than like 1992 because that is in my old house boat.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Lots more @ https://mombat.org/MOMBAT/bike_list.html

OR

https://mombat.org/American.htm including lots of ads and scans


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Look for the slotted cable stop frames., I think there were three variations of cable stops: Riveted, welded non-slotted, welded slotted. The later frames had the slotted stops AND removable derailleur hanger. The early frames had neither. Welds are just as nice on ALL frames though!

As you know, the slotted stops are nicer for maintenance but additionally tend to have less cable drag than the second rev ones (the riveted ones weren't too bad) just due to the design of the non slotted ones used on the early frames.

Removable rear derailleur hanger is nice but impossible to get now and can be an issue if the rivet holes get enlarged. Always make sure the rivets are nice and tight and don't let them get loose!! That's when people start having problems. Once the rivet hole is enlarged you can never get the rivets to stay tight. I like to use stainless rivets instead of the original aluminum ones, they hold up much better.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Order a few before they dissapear again. (I still have three originals in my parts bin saved over the years for the tandem).

I am not affiliated with R/E (bought my tandem and first Comp Lite there many years ago)but this is good beta for American owners who come across this thread in search of a der hanger:

A Blast From the Past....

Back in the late 1980's we sold a Rodriguez aluminum tandem that was made for us by American Mfg. It was called the Rodriguez AL26. The tandems were beautiful polished (or brushed) aluminum and incorporated a replaceable tab on the rear drop out for mounting the derailleur on (the same one that American used on their aluminum bikes). A problem arose several years ago when the replaceable part became 'no longer available'. I originally had an emergency batch of them made by a machine shop in Oregon, but we ran out of those, and then that machine shop went out of business. 
I always wanted to update and improve the design of this part anyway. It was originally machined with pretty loose tolerances, and bent easier than it should. The derailleur was too low, and too far forward so it was difficult to remove and reinstall the wheel with the skewer in the hub. As people brought in these old bikes to upgrade them to modern shifting, the derailleur was too far forward to shift well. 
Well, our machine shop is running so smoothly this year that I decided that we should try and make a batch ourselves. I located someone who had one of the tandems in question, and borrowed it for a while. We now have an improved model of this part in stock for those of you who have one of these tandems (or an old American Mfg. bike). This one is lighter weight, and addresses the shifting issue as well as the wheel removal issue. 








*Cost is $39.99. *To purchase one email me
​


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Aemmer said:


> Order a few before they dissapear again


Those are great!
I like how they relocated the position of the derailleur.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Awesome resource, thanks Tim!


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Like that? More pics at this old thread

I have an NOS green American stem for this one I picked up from Shayne.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

pinguwin said:


> I have an NOS green American stem for this one I picked up from Shayne.


Get that thing together already!!  It's been four years!! 

That thing is nice!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

pinguwin said:


>


Gosh that's sexy.....:thumbsup:


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Okay, so I fudged a little bit. The one I was asking about, was the one on eBay, but I figured discretion was a good plan. 

We worked out a deal for a good bit less than the asking price, nice folks, and we didn't get actually connected till the auction ended without a purchase. 

With a bit of coaching, they did a great job boxing it up, and today, it arrived, nice!!! Overall, pretty good. A full complement of XT, right down to the headset, BB, seatpost etc. 

The hanger was a bit bent, I was able to straighten it and it works like a bike should. Dorky saddle and bar ends, gone. Useless pedals too. Ditto for the cheesy plastic bottle cage.

Rims are toast. They're straight and rideable, but seriously caved in from brake wear.

Some dings, some chainsuck nicks, but over all, really nice shape for the frame. 

The rear tire is a junker Maxxis 1.95. It came well inflated, and rubs on the frame till I let a bunch of air out. Not a wheel true issue either, rubs the whole way 'round, both sides. What size tires are you guys running, or does this strike you as odd?

The fork, no idea, it's kinda cool, straight blade. Did these come with forks like this, built up, or was this just one that someone tossed on at some point?

So as I sit here looking at it, I'm think, I have a bunch of M910 that needs a home, right down to the wheels. Would that seem to fit, or am I mixing generations too much?

Love the stem too, it's what kinda got me excited on the whole gig, no idea if they were on all of 'em or not....


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## giantbikeboy (Dec 3, 2004)

Remember when you guys used to post pictures like this on Fridays? good stuff just the same.


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## nordstadt (Nov 26, 2005)

I like the matching stem!

Chris


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

giantbikeboy said:


> Remember when you guys used to post pictures like this on Fridays? good stuff just the same.


remember when it wasn't just on fridays?


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

Love the color on that too, very nice. I have a full set of lightly used M900 that would look pretty cool too... let me know.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Nice pick up, Mendon! Seems odd that the frame can't fit a 1.95 tire.

Aemmer seem to do a bit of seat tube clamping.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

giantbikeboy said:


> Remember when you guys used to post pictures like this on Fridays? good stuff just the same.


Fear not, this is just the raw footage. If nobody howls about the horrid misuse of XTR on this, once I get it straightened out, that'll be a PF contender.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

Run with the M732 stuff it's what probably came on it. 

The fork could be original. I can't remember if the Koski's only came with the Breezers or if the put them across the whole line.
Too bad the original stickers are gone the red contrast looks kinda cool with that color.

None the less, it's a great looking bike and you'll enjoy the way it rides.

Very nice and well done!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

girlonbike said:


> Nice pick up, Mendon! Seems odd that the frame can't fit a 1.95 tire.
> 
> Aemmer seem to do a bit of seat tube clamping.


Guilty... old school clamp, it only goes 1 1/8 or 1 1/4... need to stuff rags to make seatpost work.

MCS doesn't that frame predate XTR sporting that style of cable guides?

Also, I woulda worked a pickup for you if ya only asked.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Aemmer said:


> MCS doesn't that frame predate XTR sporting that style of cable guides?
> 
> Also, I woulda worked a pickup for you if ya only asked.


Thanks all, I'm digging the color too. I guess the stems weren't super common, so that's a plus as well!

Aemmer, unless you have a way to fly it to me free, I got a good deal, I used my UPS account (sorry), created a label to me, from them, then scanned and emailed it. They just stuck it a shipped it. Cost me $56, from WA to NY, I'm happy with that!

Now what do you mean about the cable guides? I'm confused, they're canti brakes,not V's.... 

My alternative kit would be a Campy OR group I picked up from Shayne a while back, but no wheels with that one. I could just run this I suppose.

I need to get one of those hangers too.

Happy problems I tell ya!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> My alternative kit would be a Campy OR group I picked up from Shayne a while back,


hello!

although it's pretty funny to put an Italian grouppo on an American. Hot though!


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

Beautiful beautiful beautiful. Other than a Cunningham [well out of reach], American's are the only Aluminum frame I desire, and in this color even. I say leave the XT on it, especially if it works well. Too bad about the rear tire clearance....


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

MendonCycleSmith said:


> Now what do you mean about the cable guides? I'm confused, they're canti brakes,not V's....


Nice looking bike!!

The cable guide on the down tube (the welded plate just behind the head tube) disappeared in the early '90's (before XTR was introduced). It was replaced by traditional cable stops.

I'm running narrow (1.9" maybe?) X-1 tires on my Comp Lite. I've not tried wider tires. But my stays are a 1/2 inch longer than yours.


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## jacdykema (Apr 10, 2006)

Very nice MCS! Americans are one of the few aluminum bikes I've ever drooled over (the others being Hams and the original Manitous). I'm with the others on the 732 though, it just looks right where I don't think M900 (or OR for that matter) would. 

I had been watching this guy's auction very closely as well. I was waiting for it to get down closer to the high three hundreds before pulling the trigger but it looks like I waited just a bit too long. Glad to see it went to someone who will appreciate it!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Okay, so while I'm hearing the chorus of keep it XT loud and clear, I'll ameliorate your concerns by telling you I've kept the whole group together so I can revert at a future time if I choose. 

Think of it as a bike that someone bought, rode hard, and when the XTR stuff came out, they just couldn't resist the UGI that overcame them.... 

I've had this stuff sitting in a box, waiting for the right bike (in my mind) and seeing as I seem to find myself not too passionate about any one VRC bike right now, this one fit the bill. 

Luckily, I didn't have a crank to put on due to the kits having a 170mm set which I traded out immediately, as the driveside removal threads are stripped to shyte, it even resisted my very cool EVT stripped crank removal tool :madman: 

So, on it stays, it's not bent, the BB is smooth, screw it. See? Some 732 remains :thumbsup: 

Careful eyes will note the subtle things, like an XTR seat QR, a nice old set of XT pedals (the ones it came with were plastic junk) and a saddle that seems to have just the right color. I butchered a B17 into a Swallow a while back, and this just struck me as a good fit.

Grips aren't right, sadly, it has Trek rims, but at least they are US built rims. Had some older XTR rings to replace the used up cheapo rings on the crank. 

A nice surprise was the tires @ 1.9 seem to clear great. Overall, post conversion, the bike dropped a substantial 1.9 pounds. I'm a closet weight weenie, so this made me very happy  

Sorry the pics kinda suck, my camera is acting up and the lighting was odd, despite being sunny. 

Did the whole thing is one post ride beer fueled push, finished up around 1AM, rode it around the parking lot, declared it a fun little beast, went to bed, and woke up to 8"s of fresh, ah well, Spring time in Upstate NY....


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

nice. it's the kind of thread that makes me want to ride a mountain bike.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

I have a special thing for m900 derrailleurs.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Sweet! Maybe Shayne can chime in why the clearance is so small. That seems really odd to me.

Looks great!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Sweet! Maybe Shayne can chime in why the clearance is so small. That seems really odd to me.
> 
> Looks great!


The clearance is small because the chain stays are 16 inches long. Allowing a tire and three chain rings to fit into such a small place requires a compromise. 

And m900 parts look good on most any bike.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

laffeaux said:


> The clearance is small because the chain stays are 16 inches long. Allowing a tire and three chain rings to fit into such a small place requires a compromise.


That's crazy. I've always wondered who were buying those 1.7-1.90 sized tires.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> That's crazy. I've always wondered who were buying those 1.7-1.90 sized tires.


An advantage of the elevated-stay frames is that wider tires could be used with short stays since the chain stays didn't have to squeeze between the tire and chain ring.


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Short stays rock. I love 'em on my 29er's, maybe this thing'll make me like little wheels again  

But now? I need a snow melter.......


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Italian on American IS hot. Trust me...



girlonbike said:


> hello!
> 
> although it's pretty funny to put an Italian grouppo on an American. Hot though!


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## jtori (Jul 26, 2014)

*My American M16*

Hi.

New to this forum and very late coming to this thread. Here is a photo of my American M16, which I built up while living in Germany. Wanted something that was kind of trick, reasonably light and that could be used on or offroad. It's got an AMP fork, Raceface crank, Klein carbon bar, Deore derailleurs and brakes, and Brooks titanium saddle. Still fun to ride.









Joe.


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## oneschnark (Dec 16, 2013)

Hi, my M16 


Philippe


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## jtori (Jul 26, 2014)

Philippe,

Very cool! Like the dark frame and red crank.

Joe.


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## theproscloset (Mar 28, 2013)




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## jtori (Jul 26, 2014)

Nice to see these frames still in action. Diggin' the tires and fork. Nice!

Joe.


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## American m16 (Apr 17, 2017)

*My m16*

Hello everyone,

New to the forum and mountain biking in general. Was really into old school 90s mountain bikes as a kid but couldn't afford one. Just picked up this 91 american m16. Really dig the welds and aluminum frame, but still getting used to the retro color hahaha.

This thread and others really helped me in my decision to find and ultimately purchase this m16. What do you think about my bike? Any advice regarding these bikes?? Thanks in advance! !!!


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Man, that thing spent some time in the sun!!!

Looks like it's in great shape overall. Enjoy, they are a fun ride for sure. 

Me? I'd get some more trail appropriate tires, preferably skin walls, just to make it trail worthy, and, complete the vintage look. 

Different brakes front, and rear??


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## tjensen1952 (Jan 14, 2018)

For tductape - Would the hangers pictured fit the American M16 Frame?


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