# Review: C&B Seen 7up



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

*C AND B SEEN.​*
This is a personal review on one of this company's new 7up lights having previously purchased their rear lights which at 500Lm are seriously bright and quite intelligent.

So this is only my 2nd review of a light, my background is I am an ex lover of Troutie lights so I tend to measure everything by his standards. I have not stripped this light down and unlike my last light, I have not tried to reverse engineer it or upgrade it like I did with my last really mad 5K+ lumen light whereby I was trying to put a Lupine Betty to shame and succeed with a degree of ease.

So billed as their - *SINGLE 7-LED 3000LM LAMP HEAD UNIT BLACK WITH REMOTE.* It uses 7 x CREE XPG G3 Natural White LED's and a Finnish manufactured glass lens providing each LED with it's own focus-tightening area to protect against peripheral light-spill. Personally I wished they had at least have used L2 T6 but having said that, they have done a good job with their choice and specced as a single light with nothing else at only £34.. extras are available.









The first thing I like about this deal, is you only buy what you want, so you can buy the light unit only or one with their remote control, or a battery is an option so too is the extended cable and a charger.. which I think is great if like me you already run a very good tried and tested 100w/H LiPo battery setup and do not need all that other stuff. It comes with all the usual attachment modes (which I always ditch and use my own hook-up kit).. which is fixed and very steady.

.. Anyway once wired up ( I run mine from a 14.8v LiPo Battery with a regulated voltage dropper to 8.5v). NOTE - I run two lights, this one plus a Trail tech 12v Spotlight&#8230; so it is all down to what this babe is like out on the trails.









Out of the box, it is pre-set to LOW-MED-HIGH.. There are two buttons on the remote, these can be used to switch on, pair to the light, control the brightness level up/down and the pulse mode.. NOTE, not a strobe but a more realistic pulse.. so in this mode it is on at around level 2 and then pulses at level 3 or 4.









It comes with good instructions on how to pair, program and what the warning lights mean as a power gauge.. out on the street, LOW is great for street night riding without bothering other drivers but off road is too dim to use.. on the road at night, other drivers will see you on the LOW beam as it is bright. In daylight, the pulse is perfect - not too over the top and no way as aggressive as my last light setup but you WILL get seen and there is no doubt about that as it will pick up the reflective roads signs a good 50 plus meters away. it runs quiet cool, at full power I had it indoors running for 30mins before I decided to cool it down with a fan.

Off road, MED setting is great, good spread, reasonably wide and the light tint is warmish enough to pick out stuff nice and easy. The high setting (by my standard) is not insane but it is pretty mental. For most people HIGH will satisfy most reasonable fast twisty fire-roads and wooded trails.. I would say that at around 25mph + you will struggle to outrun the lights plus in program mode there are two higher settings above the factory set HIGH.









Out in the back of beyond and in program mode (you can over-ride and set your own fixed settings) then you can go through all 10 levels but to be honest it comes set at Low = L1, Med = L4 and High = L8.. I found that moving the Med setting up to say L5 or L6 was not really worth it and that L10 was not that much (on the road) noticeably brighter than L8&#8230; indoors L10 looks seriously bright but outdoors it was not worth the extra current draw.

I cannot comment about their battery or charger as I did not purchase one but on my setup, I am able to run my spot light which has a 30w draw and this light on L10 with a 20w draw (with a fan over the lights indoors) for an easy 60mins and the voltage drop was only 0.8v from 16.88v to 16.00v and was able to run it for a further 60mins with a voltage drop of 2v to 14.8v which for me is more than enough as I cannot think of a time when I would need the full power on for two hours.. Based on this, a typical 20w draw on this light would probably suck about 2.38ish amps out of a battery and the need to run it at full power would really only be for when you are out in the woods. I took my bike down by the river trail last night where the path is full of all sorts and I was able to see branches looking to swipe my head off, logs that had been placed close by for later river collection and enough mud and hidden pot holes with no real issues on the Med setting.









All in all, this is a seriously good value for money lamp.. A Lupine Wilma which I feel this light is somewhere between the Wilma and the Betty is on par but the costs of the Lupine lights are crazy and yet the build quality of this light is to me, on the same level. The remote is not quite Lupine but it is still very good and very functional and will work once paired at least 5m away (if you want to show off).. Costs.. Under £80 for a full kit with 1st class recorded post&#8230; I would suggest getting the extension lead as the light comes with about 150mm of standard lead and the plugs are tough, click shut and will seal out everything that should not be in there.

Cycling LED Lights

If you are in the market for a decent light, then this is certainly worth a look at plus it is in the UK comes with an UK warranty and the sort of customer service back up that gets a 10/10 from me.

I will add some beam shots when I get a chance.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

That is a really nice looking light and it even has a wireless remote which is impressive for that price point!

I'm also a old time Troutie fan and have a few lights built up using his CNC'd hosts. One problem I see with this light, and its also a common problem I see with all the inexpensive (read Chinese) lights, is that it is powered at 8.4V. This means for a 3000 lumen light a very current has to be carried by the battery cables and this is where things start to fall down. I run all my lights at 14.8V to minimize the inevitable voltage sag caused by high currents run over thin wires. I wish the cheapy light manufactures would make the jump to the higher voltage batteries, but it seems like that's just not going to happen with the race to the bottom of bike light pricing.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

Hiya.. It does say in the docs that it will handle up to 16v... I bought two lights, one to mess around with and one to run.. When I gave the first one 16v, it just stopped working.. I am guessing that the main board was not truly happy as the light is not responding to any thing.

Overall the wiring seems able to handle 20w.. not sure about the 3000Lm claim as I can't measure it but is brighter than most of the other so-called claimed hi lumen lights.

I have wired it from my battery to the light using my own 3amp cable and to that end it ran for 2 hours yesterday and there was no issues at full power (approx 2.4amp).. cable stayed cold and I let run like this before I hard wired it all in for keeps.

I also wish most of these lights would run at a higher voltage.. but I am gonna try and pick the first light down to see if any of Task LED Boards will fit in there as on my last light, one of theirs HBFlex was just mental when driven at 3amps.


----------



## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

EFMax said:


> Hiya.. It does say in the docs that it will handle up to 16v... I bought two lights, one to mess around with and one to run.. When I gave the first one 16v, it just stopped working.. I am guessing that the main board was not truly happy as the light is not responding to any thing.


I'm seeing in the specs on their website operating voltage of: 6V - 8.4V. Could be why it let the magic smoke out when you gave it 16V! ;-)


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Interesting offering. Price is right. I do tend to be overly cautious when it comes to this kind of lamp though. I'm not sure I would like the kind of beam pattern it might produce. I look forward to the beam shot photos. I'd like to know how far it throws. Right now I'm thinking it might be akin to something like the BT40S only with > 2X the output. I love that it' s programmable and has wireless remote. Bring on some beam shots!

Shipping from UK tends to be more expensive but I'm still considering getting one of these to play with.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

kwarwick said:


> I'm seeing in the specs on their website operating voltage of: 6V - 8.4V. Could be why it let the magic smoke out when you gave it 16V! ;-)


Funny how the website says 8.4v but the paperwork clearly says up to 16v... never mind we learn by our mistakes..

*Cat-man-do* Will get out over the weekend and find a quiet and dark spot to get some shots..


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Another thing from the OP's linked website that looks interesting. 500 lumen self-contained tail-light.

Rear Bicycle Light


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

There are two things I noticed in the second picture of the first post. The Led's look really warm and if the bars spin in a crash it could be very expensive.

I found a beam shot on that companies website. https://www.candb-seen.co.uk/uploads/docs/Image90_58a56d3f5d3b3.jpg

Specs say 150 grams and waterproof to IPX5.

Good looking light.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

arc said:


> There are two things I noticed in the second picture of the first post. The Led's look really warm and if the bars spin in a crash it could be very expensive.
> 
> I found a beam shot on that companies website. https://www.candb-seen.co.uk/uploads/docs/Image90_58a56d3f5d3b3.jpg
> 
> ...


I would say that the lights are quite warm in tint. Against a white wall they have a cool blue look but out in the field they are warm (which I now prefer).

Talking about crashes, I have had a few in the past and surprisingly, the lights never get hurt, just me and my pride.

Weight wise, mine weighed 118ish grams so 120 for round numbers but that was without any of the O-rings and fitting stuff.

Their website beamshots look pants and are more likely to put you off than make your mind up for you.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

With respect to their rear light, I have no means to measure the output but let us just say, it is seriously bright, even in the low steady state it is bright. I also have a Lupine rear light and it is an easy match for that. I have turned mine upside down and have screwed it to my saddle for permanent attachment, I only use it in really bad rain or fog/snow conditions as it is just a little too bright for most drivers - but they have no excuse to not see you.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

EFMax said:


> ...Their website beamshots look pants and are more likely to put you off than make your mind up for you.


Okay but at least I can tell that for the most part the beam pattern looks very flood-ish and very dispersed. I see no discernible hot spot. Considering the claimed output I have to wonder what it is going to look like in one of the lower modes.

Looking forward to your own beam shot photos. Is there another "review thread" on this lamp somewhere?


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

EFMax said:


> I would say that the lights are quite warm in tint. Against a white wall they have a cool blue look but out in the field they are warm (which I now prefer).
> 
> Talking about crashes, I have had a few in the past and surprisingly, the lights never get hurt, just me and my pride.
> 
> ...


I would be worried about one of the lights smashing into the frame, it doesn't look like they would clear the top tube in the picture.

Their beamshot doesn't look that bad considering the weather, its weird they didn't show any beamshots with better conditions.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

*Beam Shots*

Finally got out last night to do some pictures. Normally I know the standard settings are F4 @ 6secs, these were done at F4 @ 4secs, not too sure why the camera kept going back to this even though it was on manual but it was 2am, cold, a bit wet on the ground and windy so I just snapped away and got back indoors double quick., will need to check that out later.. anyway this is what I recorded. Camera is on a tripod using a lens equal to 24mm. ASA is set at 200. Normal white balance and no image editing beyond size reduction for uploading.

Ok, so I started off with a fresh battery.








Voltage is a healthy 16.6v, don't forget I run two lights, one from 12v-20v and this review one from the same battery but with a step down voltage regulator giving out a steady 8.5v. All is enclosed in the water bottle. The battery is a 6750mAh 14.8v LiPo with a 100w/H capacity.








First Shot - with only light from a flash unit so as to highlight the reflective jacket on the lamp post - which is 115ft away.








Test Shot - zero lights. F4 @ 4secs.








Lowest level output - this I use for street night riding so as to be seen but it offers no real value off-road. The reflective jacket can still been seen about 40m away. This gives a car doing approx 30mph about 2 seconds between seeing you and hitting you.








Level 4 (factory set MED).








Level 8 (factory set HIGH).








Camera is now to the left of the bike by about 10ft.
Lowest level output - this I use for street night riding so as to be seen but it offers no real value off-road. The reflective jacket can still been seen.








Camera is now to the left of the bike by about 10ft
Level 4 (factory set MED).








Camera is now to the left of the bike by about 10ft
Level 8 (factory set HIGH).








Camera by the left side of the bike looking over the handle bar and the lens is now set at 90mm setting to focus just on the reflective jacket 115ft away. This is L1








As above. This is L4
The 2nd reflective band in the background is 150ft away from the camera.








As above. This is L8
The 2nd reflective band in the background is 150ft away from the camera. It is brighter but only just.








As above. This is L10 - This is in program mode and I have taken it to two levels above the factory setting of HIGH. The 2nd reflective band in the background is 150ft away from the camera.








Camera is now to the right of the bike by about 10ft.
Lowest level output - this I use for street night riding so as to be seen but it offers no real value off-road. The reflective jacket can still been seen.








Level 4 (factory set MED).








Level 8 (factory set HIGH).








I look forward to people's feedback as I hope this is a fair reflection of what I saw outdoors today.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

EFMax said:


> I look forward to people's feedback as I hope this is a fair reflection of what I saw outdoors today.


EFMax, thanks for the photos. I know how hard it is to take good photos when it's cold so I really appreciate the effort. :thumbsup:

My thoughts; I'm not as impressed as I'd thought I'd be. Beam pattern appears more narrow than expected. Not that that's a bad thing per say. I wish you hadn't used a reflective vest as a target object. I much prefer a more benignly reflective object as target so as to judge how well a normal object is being seen ( as per when MTB'ing ). Not to mention that you set up the shots on the grass. Grass tends to make beam shots look more dramatic because grass ( cut grass ) is more highly reflective. I would of rather you had used the paved path as it is darker surface.

On high the lamp looks to do rather well but I have my doubts that it is providing an actual 3K lumen max output. Illumination at 115 ft. is not bad but if we're dealing with something outputting 3K lm I would expect to see way more detail at 115 ft. I have a 3 emitter setup ( XM-L2 U3(?) ( ~ 2200 lumen ) that will give me detail ( on grass ) in the 200 ft range without too much problem. Could be that optics for XM-L2 are just better for throw than what you can get for XP-G3's. Below, a photo I took of my BT40S during dry conditions. Tree at the top is about *135 ft away. Not bad for a cheap XP-G2 4-up. ( *photo taken when BT40S was first released ) Second photo is of my two emitter Gemini DuoR. ( two spot optics ) The fence is about 170 ft. away if my memory serves me. Note you can see the rungs in the wooden fence.

Quick question about your battery; You mentioned you are using an 8.4 voltage regulator to keep the voltage within range. Regulators often have limited current output. Do you know the listed maximum output current for your regulator? Parting thought; Is is possible you underestimated the distance to the pole? Looks like it might be more than 115 ft. to me ( of course with photo's it's hard to tell )


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

Thanks for the feedback... will make a note of the points you made.

I would have preferred them not to have use the LEDs that they did as I still love the way the L2-T6s behave.

I am also still unsure I if prefer lens over reflectors.

I am trying not to let my last light which was crazy bright overshadow my thinking but I agree, the 3K Lumen claim is not what I would expect.

I still like the light as it is not badly priced especially when compared to the prices a HBFlex board for my last light upgrade.

With respect to the voltage dropper, it says it will handle 3amps so my max draw is below this. It doesn't get hot as it has a reasonable heat sink which I have then mated to an empty can of red bull which are inside of the water bottle - the main battery sits inside of the can and the voltage meter is only connected to the main battery as I set the regulator to 8.5v in advance of fitting it all together.

When I get a chance I will go out into a more trail like area (when it warms up a bit as it was trying unsuccessfully to snow this morning) and I will also get the camera to work at 6secs at F4 so as to get a recording more in line with what others use.. and I will try and set the angle of the light a bit better as I do a fair amount of road riding as well, I am always conscious of dazzling on-coming traffic.

Distance was measured by my Garmin bike unit, so I am guessing it is pretty close in its accuracy.. I shall measure my steps next time as well as they are about a metre apart.. CHEERS..


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

I was expecting more light and a wider beam. There is a Skyraider59 review of an older light on candlepowerforums that made close to its advertised lumens. C and B Seen lists this light as 20 watts maximum output. The Cree characterization tool set for S5 bin and 20 led watts comes in around 3000 lumens depending on optical efficiency at 25C junction temperature. At 85C its still over 2500 lumens.

I'd love to see what the light looks like disassembled. Looks like it could be a great host especially if the remote is on a separate board. How wide is the optic?


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

*Beam shots (2nd attempt)*

Okay, I went back out again and found another location. I must say that an exposure of six seconds seems a lot and does cause some of the higher light settings to seem washed out.. anyway here goes.

Control shot. F4 @ 6secs.








L2 setting, this is the one setting above the preset LOW setting.








L5 setting, this is one setting above the preset MED setting.








L8 setting, this is the preset HIGH setting.








L10 setting, this two settings above the normal preset HIGH setting.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

6 seconds is way over exposed, it's really hard to get a proper exposure but lengthening the time doesn't work. Use ISO with only minor adjustments to exposure. It works better.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

The 6 seconds at F4 "standard MTBR" setting was established long before LEDs got so powerful. There was a subsequent "High Power standard" agreed upon a few years ago but I don't recall what it was.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

These photos look much better. Yeah, the 6 sec. is likely too much ( exposure ) for the higher output. Still, I'm getting a better sense of what this lamp is capable of. Looks to easily throw about 200-300 ft. on high.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I forgot the standard as well it was lower and iso was higher instead. I usually just adjust settings to match what I see.

I need to try taking beam shots with my GoPro now but i know with video I have to adjust it based on mode. 2.0 increase in exposure with a high iso works great till you hit above about 1800 lumens. Then any hot spot washed out.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## OlMarin (Oct 22, 2016)

I just like the way OP mounted this.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

OlMarin said:


> I just like the way OP mounted this.


I'd be concerned about a crash that tries to spin the bars around banging the light bracket into the frame.

As a plus, the light comes standard with a decent looking cam-lock type mount. Would have been a joke to see a light like that with the typical Chinese O-ring mounting. One good hit and the top of the front tire would be the only thing well lit. On my 6 LED light I used to use dual O-ring mounts and it still moved a bit despite being ~20% lighter than the C and B seen light.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

His way of mounting in defiantly creative. I like the idea as well but same concerns, frame contact.

I was looking at the OP pics and realized something. The shear lack of surface area that it has considering what they are trying to push from it. The fins look more like dimples. I'd be rather concerned with cooking that thing once the weather warms up. But that too only applies if its producing near the rated lumens.

Good option/competition for the bt40 in cheap bar lights. 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

Size wise, it is about the same as the Lupine Wilma (I still have one somewhere).. heat wise, when I tried it indoors, first with no fan, it got warm then it got hot but it stayed on for a good 20mins before I decided to put the fan over it.. I am guessing that with temps around 15*c at night in the warmer UK times, while moving, it should not really be an issue.

I keep looking back to my last lamp, this weighed in at 3x the weight of this light but so much of that was for cooling and may well have been a bit ott, that said I did some night time stuff in Bali a few years back where it was 24*c at like 2am and the lights coped very well.. the other lamp I have below it is by Trail Tech - they claim 2500L and the casing on that is over kill as it just does not break a sweat when standing still.

A few people have talked about crashes and what might happen to the light, but I have had two bad stacks, both put me in hospital and on neither accident, did the lights (which have always been in the same position) ever done anything more than move side ways.. had more of an issue with my brake levers where one of my Hope levers snapped..


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Vancbiker said:


> I'd be concerned about a crash that tries to spin the bars around banging the light bracket into the frame...


:shocked: How's that? Looks like he has it mounted just under the upper part of where the headset is. I had to look at my own Mt bike just to see if this is possible ( and still have the lamp turn when moving the handlebars ). Hmm...I suppose it's possible but it seems unlikely to me to be a danger. It would certainly take an extreme turn of the bars to hit the frame.

That said, as nice looking as his mounting is I don't think I'd mount it in the same area as the OP did. On my bike that corresponds to the area where all my cables cross. Likely I'd use a bar extension and mount so the lamp lines up with the front of the handlebars. A lamp like this begs to be mounted high. I say this because likely the close-in spill is going to be intense. Mounting low will increase the brightness of the foreground area, perhaps even washing out the terrain when run on the higher modes. If true it could certainly effect the ability to see things in the distance.

I can't help but wonder what the remote would look like when mounted on the bars. OP has his mounted on the top tube. No way would I want it there.

Anyone else thinking of getting one of these? I'm still thinking about it but I need to see how well the remote can mount while on the bars.

*@EFMax;* Judging from the newer photos: L5 looks good for medium but I might consider L6 for a bit more throw. L2 for low looks fine. I know the photo for high is washed out but if the lamp can throw that far than L8 for high is fine.

BTW, I love that natural surface trail, with such a great straightaway it seems perfect for testing the throw-ability of bike lights. Is this typical of trails in the English countryside? Can you do a photo of the remote mounted on the bars? I'd just like to see what that might look like.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> :shocked: How's that?


My old flat bar cross bike had a pretty good scratch and small gouge in the top tube where the cantilever brake cable support (same part that the OP is using for a light mount) hit the frame in a crash that tried to spin the bars >180 degrees. Drop bar bikes usually hit the handle bar into the frame before the brake bracket hits. Maybe I had the bracket tighter than it needed to be. In any case the damage was cosmetic mainly as the frame was aluminum but was right there in plain sight and bugged me for a long time.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Lesson to learn:. Don't crash 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

RAKC Ind said:


> His way of mounting in defiantly creative. I like the idea as well but same concerns, frame contact.
> 
> I was looking at the OP pics and realized something. The shear lack of surface area that it has considering what they are trying to push from it. The fins look more like dimples. I'd be rather concerned with cooking that thing once the weather warms up. But that too only applies if its producing near the rated lumens.
> 
> ...


Their specs say 20 watts max output, hope it has some thermal protection built in.

It looks like there is a lot of light close to the bike. I'm guessing its a Ledil Anna TIR so there's not many options if you want to change the beam angle, maybe XPL hi's or dedomed Nichias?

Do you think its running a boost driver with all the LED's in series?


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

It could be, not common on lower prices lights though.

Thing is your looking at 20v (rounded) to get 20W and that's 1A per emitter. Or flip it around to parallel. Either way at best before losses your at 2800 lumens. Actual is maybe 2500 at that rating.

Now I haven't done any extensive testing with xpg3 emitters yet. Have some, not installed in anything to see how they perform. Specs of them look good so 2400-2500 lumens OTF is possible if that is actually a ledil optic and not a Chinese clone. But the not getting hot thing has me wondering and debating on getting my hands on one to put through the sphere and such. See what it actually does. Problem is I need a nother light like I need a hole in the head. Could have bought a carbon fiber road bike instead of a $1k model with the money I have in lights on my desk collecting dust lol.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> :shocked: How's that? Looks like he has it mounted just under the upper part of where the headset is. I had to look at my own Mt bike just to see if this is possible ( and still have the lamp turn when moving the handlebars ). Hmm...I suppose it's possible but it seems unlikely to me to be a danger. It would certainly take an extreme turn of the bars to hit the frame.
> 
> That said, as nice looking as his mounting is I don't think I'd mount it in the same area as the OP did. On my bike that corresponds to the area where all my cables cross. Likely I'd use a bar extension and mount so the lamp lines up with the front of the handlebars. A lamp like this begs to be mounted high. I say this because likely the close-in spill is going to be intense. Mounting low will increase the brightness of the foreground area, perhaps even washing out the terrain when run on the higher modes. If true it could certainly effect the ability to see things in the distance.
> 
> ...


Hi.. The remote has a downside.. it is flat and not handle bar friendly, which is a pity because even with the fitting kit (it is a three piece job, whereby the remote slides into a base unit and that unit is then attached to the handle bar).. I just cannot understand why they did it that way, hence why I have it on the top mount as mine is very flat and sits okay under the Garmin unit and thus is easy for my hand to locate in the darkness..

The lens (so the blurb says) are lens from some place in Finland and not Chinese - they don't give a lot away but they felt the need to bring that fact to your attention.

I still feel that the light deals with the heat side of things very well.. the L8 setting seems more than enough for me but you can program the high, med and low setting on a scale of 1-10 and for daytime road use L1 is plenty of light to be seen.. off road I find I can ride okay on L4 or L5 .

The path that I have photographed is my exercise route down by the river.. we have some off road trails near me (Swinley Forest) which is dedicated to runners, dog walkers and bikers.. we don't have the great weather as some parts of the world but they have a number of routes there which are suited for all skill levels... the place where I have had two of my accidents has now been flatten because they were having too many accidents there whereby almost every other weekend an air ambulance was lifting some kid out and I think that maybe the pressure was on for the local council and the owners (The Ministry of Defence) to do something about it..

I have a spare light (the one that got toasted when I gave it 16v.. if you wanted to pick it apart to see what is inside then you are more than welcome, just PM me with your details and I will happily send it to you for you to break it down without wasting your money


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

EFMax said:


> Hi.. The remote has a downside.. it is flat and not handle bar friendly, which is a pity because even with the fitting kit (it is a three piece job, whereby the remote slides into a base unit and that unit is then attached to the handle bar).. I just cannot understand why they did it that way, hence why I have it on the top mount as mine is very flat and sits okay under the Garmin unit and thus is easy for my hand to locate in the darkness..


It would of been nice if the website had a photo of the remote mounted on the bars. If the underside of the remote is completely flat that indeed could be a problem. I already use a two button remote when using the Gemini lamps I have. Their remote though is slightly curved on the underside and works very well on the bars. The Gemini remotes however are designed to mount in "cross" fashion, not parallel with the bars as the C&BS's I'm thinking that some strategically placed soft foam or rubber bits might solve the mounting issue with the remote. Real shame they use two buttons as the second button is only for the flash mode. ( Who needs flash on a lamp like this? )
EFM, would you be so kind as to supply the dimensions of the remote ( with base ). I'd like to know how it compares in size to the remote I currently use.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

Cat-man-do said:


> EFM, would you be so kind as to supply the dimensions of the remote ( with base ). I'd like to know how it compares in size to the remote I currently use.


The unit is approx 35mm by 20mm by 10mm
The base is approx 45mm by 25mm by 5mm

The unit slides in very tightly and would never move or fall out.. but why they did not make it more bar friendly is beyond me.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

This is a mount from an old Gemini Titan (cheap and available) I use for my Gloworm remote (attached with velcro). Mount top measures 20 x 30 mm, any reason you couldn't velcro or glue the remote to this? O-ring mounting also allows switching from bike to bike easily.
Mole


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

^^...Glory be! You earn the, "Tip of the Month" award for that idea! A most excellent idea indeed! I bet the C&BSeen remote would work with one of those as well, although there would be some overhang. ( use the Industrial strength Velcro if the normal stuff isn't strong enough.) Of course Gloworm has their own plastic remote mount now but theirs requires the use of plastic ties. I much prefer an easy to remove O-ring. This idea rocks.:rockon:

( I can't give MrMole any more greenies right now. Someone be nice and give him a few for me... )



EFMax said:


> The unit is approx 35mm by 20mm by 10mm
> The base is approx 45mm by 25mm by 15mm
> 
> The unit slides in very tightly and would never move or fall out.. but why they did not make it more bar friendly is beyond me.


Thanks EF. This remote is very close in size to the two button Gemini remote mount. Likely I could make the C&BSeen remote work on my bike but I'd need to use one of the plastic mounts like MRM recommended. A little glue, a little Velcro, the right size O-ring...should work.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

So *Cat*, are you going to buy one of these lights? It looks like it may make a reasonable alternative to the BT40s for a bar light. Added cost would be easily justified by the mode programmable driver, additional light output (yet to be substantiated), wireless remote, and the beam pattern might work better for some people (more throw). Even if it only makes half the claimed power it still looks like it would be a reasonable deal with all those features. Glad you liked the mount suggestion.
Mole


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> So *Cat*, are you going to buy one of these lights? It looks like it may make a reasonable alternative to the BT40s for a bar light. Added cost would be easily justified by the mode programmable driver, additional light output (yet to be substantiated), wireless remote, and the beam pattern might work better for some people (more throw). Even if it only makes half the claimed power it still looks like it would be a reasonable deal with all those features. Glad you liked the mount suggestion.
> Mole


_*sigh*_ Not sure I want to drop another $50 on a lamp that likely is gonna end up collecting dust in a box. I already know I prefer lamps with standard optics ( like Gloworm or ITUO ). I tend not to like the beam pattern of lamps ( used on the bars ) that utilize a round multi-optic but the BT40S is an example of the exception to that rule. It's tempting but I'm also considering another lamp ( with cut-off ) for road use. Damn, my trigger finger is itching and my credit card is starting to talk to me. I'm still on the fence. Decisions, decisions.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Several of us here want (but don't need) this light. It will be interesting to see who caves first and gets one. I know it's only a matter of time and it will be nice to get some lux or lumen measurements + evaluation from a familiar source.
Mole


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I'd be tempted myself, but my budget for this stuff has drastically been cut. 

-Garry


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

garrybunk said:


> I'd be tempted myself, but my budget for this stuff has drastically been cut.
> 
> -Garry


I'm tempted but I have two lights I want to try emitter swaps on first. If you or Keith don't grab EFMax's burnt light for a teardown soon I just might. How they are doing a remote and get seven emitters to share the current equally at that price point makes me curious as hell.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

arc said:


> I'm tempted but I have two lights I want to try emitter swaps on first. If you or Keith don't grab EFMax's burnt light for a teardown soon I just might. How they are doing a remote and *get seven emitters to share the current equally* at that price point makes me curious as hell.


Well, not too hard to set-up a 2S/3P emitter and then power the lone emitter with a bleed-off setup using a transistor...or just put in parallel with the other 3P's and just add a normal diode in series with the last emitter to balance the current/voltage drops.

As for price; it's Chinese. That's all the explanation you need.

A little off-topic comment here; About the BLF A6 torch I mentioned before; I figured out how to change the mode menu ( 7/4 modes ) and set it up as 4-modes with memory....sweet. Last night while at work I stopped to test it out on a really dark ( dry ) paved asphalt road. Sweet Jesus; on high it lit the whole road up for at least for 300 ft. ( if not more ) Can't wait to see it in action with a good bar lamp.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Cat- it's a crazy light at full power but only lasts 45 seconds iirc in that mode. Being it's design make sure to bring plenty of cells if riding for more than 20-30 minutes. Things eat battery's like crazy. I carry it as a backup light usually because it'll light up EVERYTHING like you said for 300ft+

Also it gets hot fast.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Well, not too hard to set-up a 2S/3P emitter and then power the lone emitter with a bleed-off setup using a transistor...or just put in parallel with the other 3P's and just add a normal diode in series with the last emitter to balance the current/voltage drops.
> 
> As for price; it's Chinese. That's all the explanation you need.
> 
> A little off-topic comment here; About the BLF A6 torch I mentioned before; I figured out how to change the mode menu ( 7/4 modes ) and set it up as 4-modes with memory....sweet. Last night while at work I stopped to test it out on a really dark ( dry ) paved asphalt road. Sweet Jesus; on high it lit the whole road up for at least for 300 ft. ( if not more ) Can't wait to see it in action with a good bar lamp.


They are an English company using a Chinese builder trying to occupy the middle ground between cheap stuff and the established high end manufacturers. To me they seem on par with Ituo and Gloworm, except for crappier batteries and a working remote.

I built up a Convoy S6 single cell light similar to your A6 using Mountain Electronic's fet driver and three XPL Hi's. The highest level blows away a Wiz 20, it gets hot fast and steps down on temperature after a couple minutes. If I put the lense against a piece of cardboard with the light on high it makes a cluster of three burn marks and smoke in less than thirty seconds. I'm too paranoid about the light accidentally turning on, starting on high and starting a fire so I leave memory mode turned off and let it start on moon. It would be great on the helmet on the medium modes. Nice and light with no cords, might need some kind of Vanc mount though.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

I tried the same triple set up in mine, about 1800 lumens on the sphere @ 30 seconds (over 2000 at cold start) on a ncr18650ga cell. Too hot to hold after that. And it sucks that 3500mah in a few minutes. So I keep my triple builds to standard 3.0A drivers instead of direct drive. Have one that's xp-l hi and other is 219c. Get a usable amount of runtime for EDC use. About 1100-1200 lumens (rarely used on high)

I really like the beam pattern of triple optics that small, want to machine a bar light using a triple with xpg3 just haven't had the time. Have a custom driver from MTN for it (and a couple other builds).

Quality may be solid but the head design alone says they cant come near Ituo or even considered same class as Gloworm for performance. But that's the light nerd in me coming out lol. Think their more on par with magicshine but better designed.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

My light has a Carclo spot triple optic and a big copper spacer that takes a little while to heat up. Its running on Bistro, no turbo timer just steps down on heat. Its basically one quarter of a Supfire Mega M6 and Mountain Electronics had those pushing over 10000 lumens. I don't have a sphere but it's hard to believe its only 1800 lumens, did you bypass the tailcap spring on yours? 

Mine turned out to be floodier than I expected but its great for at work, the first five levels are well spaced and you definitely know when you hit six. The light will turn off instantly on that level if I use the wrong cells so I'm guessing its over 7 amps draw.

I've seen the A6 on sale for cheap recently so people not that knowledgeable about them will probably end up buying one. These little fet driven lights get really hot and bright. There's people here that understand how to safely handle them and probably a bunch that don't. These lights can burn things and kids, shining one of these into someone's eyes or catching a mirror by accident will be really bad. If the light is not being used immediately its best to pull the battery or mechanically lock the light out, having it turn on accidentally and unsupervised would be really dangerous.

Having said that I want one that will boil the water out of a mosquito at five feet.


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

arc said:


> ......Mine turned out to be floodier than I expected but its great for at work,


That's pretty typical of Carclo optics. My experience with them is they always make a wider beam than the specs would lead one to expect.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Mine was over 2000 at cold start, at 30 seconds which everything gets pretty damn hot (I had the same custom copper spacer, artic silver paste etc to get the heat away from the emitters) and at 45 seconds it steps off turbo mode. 1800 was the number I recorded at the 30 second mark. Thing is those optics being wide makes for A LOT of light in close so turns night into day pretty quick. My basic triples are 11-1200 and pretty damn bright just because of the optics. But total crap for throw against a light with 400 less lumens on a single larger reflector.

I didnt try to push my A6 with the triple set up (truly I think I was the first person to try it, I was in the very first batch to get the BLF A6, Tigris99 over there) and what TK and such warned me of was right. that thing cooks way to damn fast and battery life is just wiped using XP-L HI. If your driver is full direct drive you can get about 12amps or so for a brief period before voltage drops too much. My optics and emitters were used though so closer to 2000 out of the box before optics and such get dirty is possible.

I went back to standard format single xp-l hi so it was at least usable.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

RAKC Ind said:


> Cat- it's a crazy light at full power but only lasts 45 seconds iirc in that mode. Being it's design make sure to bring plenty of cells if riding for more than 20-30 minutes. Things eat battery's like crazy. I carry it as a backup light usually because it'll light up EVERYTHING like you said for 300ft+
> 
> Also it gets hot fast.
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


Yeah, I read that it has a time limit on the boost mode ( in 7-mode menu ). Not sure if the high mode works the same way in the 4-mode. Either way, that's fine for me. I don't use the high mode for more than a minute anyway. Yep, as bright as it is I'm sure it is going to drain a battery real fast. Still, the medium mode is more than enough for basic use and I ALWAYS carry an extra cell when using a torch.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OK, I ordered the 3000 lumen light-head + remote. I guess the review starts now to see how long it takes to get the light to Arizona from the UK (I've always had good luck with anything ordered from UK). Sent them an email inquiring about the estimated shipping times so we'll also see how quickly they respond. Light-head + remove option was $56.33 @ the current exchange rate. More to follow (hopefully soon).
Mole

****C&B Seen website has already changed since I ordered last night. Light-head + remote is no longer shown, Hmm. Was also looking around on the website and noticed on the home page is says that their offices are closed from 3/25 to 4/17 (link in the OP first post takes you to the "bike light section" which is where I ordered the light from) so I don't expect anything to happen soon, unfortunate****


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Hot Dang! Mole, I knew one of us would buckle...LOL:cornut: Looking forward to your review.


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hot Dang! Mole, I knew one of us would buckle...LOL:cornut: Looking forward to your review.


 I thought someone would take up EFMax's offer on post 31 first.

"I have a spare light (the one that got toasted when I gave it 16v.. if you wanted to pick it apart to see what is inside then you are more than welcome, just PM me with your details and I will happily send it to you for you to break it down without wasting your money."


----------



## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

RAKC Ind said:


> .... If your driver is full direct drive you can get about 12amps or so for a brief period before voltage drops too much.


 I'm using Panasonic NCR18650GA protected cells and it hasn't been that warm here yet, mine's quite usable. It says 10 amps on the side of the EVVA cell but I doubt its drawing all of it. Driver is a Fet plus 7135. About 90 seconds on 6 (high) until Bistro starts stepping down, then it drops a level every 20 seconds and stabilizes around level 3 at room temperature. It gets hot especially around the pill section and while uncomfortable I can still hold onto it, the battery is a little above lukewarm but I don't let it heat soak. I haven't changed the temperature setting, its whatever Richard defaults it to.

Once the Led's show up for the 90cri floody one I'm going to lower the temp an see if it will ramp back up. A non-fet Bistro driver in a single emitter light might be perfect if you only need a little run-time to finish off an evening road ride.

When an Ituo cell trips the protection circuit does it reset automatically or have to go into a charger? How many amps are the 3200's rated for?


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Received an email from the folks @ C&B Seen today. They offered an apology for the delay in shipping and offered a refund to me if I didn't care to wait till they reopened from their company holiday. Sounds like they will be good people to work with and of course I declined the refund offer. They also estimated shipping would take 3 - 5 days to the US so I guess I'll have to wait it out till the end of the month.
Mole


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Received an email from the folks @ C&B Seen today. They offered an apology for the delay in shipping and offered a refund to me if I didn't care to wait till they reopened from their company holiday. Sounds like they will be good people to work with and of course I declined the refund offer. They also estimated shipping would take 3 - 5 days to the US so I guess I'll have to wait it out till the end of the month
> 
> Mole


MRM, You should of told them that the product was going to be reviewed on the very popular MTBReview website.. I bet they would of made an exception and had the lamp ship out ASAP, ( perhaps maybe at no cost... ) Hopefully, they won't charge your card till they ship the lamp.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

What holiday is like a month long? Chinese New year is long over for this year lol.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

To satisfy the curious Cat, I did mention the light was going to be reviewed but didn't identify MTBR as the forum location (that must have been my mistake). PayPal also deducted the amount immediately upon placing the order. Ideal or not non of this will matter when I get the light.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I was looking through the on-line manuals for this light and found some interesting/unusual data.

*Operating temperature range:*

-10 - 50 (C) or 14 - 122 (F)

*Thermal step-down temperature*:

80 (C) or 176 (F)

Well it looks like it's rated to run OK even on the hottest nights here in Phoenix. Will not purposely be testing the thermal threshold temperature @ 176 degrees. Steps down to low when thermal protection activated which would be 10% (factory setting) unless low means what ever you set low to. 
Mole


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I was looking through the on-line manuals for this light and found some interesting/unusual data.
> 
> *Operating temperature range:*
> 
> ...


Keep in mind if the thermal sensor is placed at or near the center of the lamp that the center is likely to heat up much faster than the outside of the lamp body. On the highest modes I would expect the lamp to enter thermal step-down quite fast. Of course all depends on how much current is being supplied per emitter as to how fast it heats up. Cross your fingers and hope for the best.

Looking ahead, perhaps you can persuade Vanc to make a larger than normal heat-sink GoPro adapter.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> Keep in mind if the thermal sensor is placed at or near the center of the lamp that the center is likely to heat up much faster than the outside of the lamp body. On the highest modes I would expect the lamp to enter thermal step-down quite fast. Of course all depends on how much current is being supplied per emitter as to how fast it heats up. Cross your fingers and hope for the best.
> 
> Looking ahead, perhaps you can persuade Vanc to make a larger than normal heat-sink GoPro adapter.


I thought the thermal range and step down threshold seemed strange because my understanding is that most emitters have a max. recommended temp range of 150F which matches almost all lights I've tested. Just figured it was worth mentioning. OP's comments (below) about the lights thermal characteristics seem to indicate overheating is not an issue so that's encouraging. If the light performs well and ends up getting use regularly it will definitely warrant a "Vancbiker mount".
Mole



> EFMax said:
> 
> 
> > Size wise, it is about the same as the Lupine Wilma (I still have one somewhere).. heat wise, when I tried it indoors, first with no fan, it got warm then it got hot but it stayed on for a good 20mins before I decided to put the fan over it.. I am guessing that with temps around 15*c at night in the warmer UK times, while moving, it should not really be an issue.


----------



## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Mole,

Actually most Cree emitters are rated at 85C. That's why their data sheets give a lumen number at 25C and 85C.

Lights that the thermal step down is lower is because as was said, center is going to get hotter faster. So the emitters are pushing a bit higher temperature than the housing. 

Then also most lights the sensor is driver mounted. As nother matter of LEDs are going on be hotter. Only one I've seen that's not is Ituo.

80C thermal protection setting is just a really bad idea unless your running a fairly high end driver as well. 85C rated driver components are not near as cheap.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

RAKC Ind said:


> Mole,
> 
> Actually most Cree emitters are rated at 85C. That's why their data sheets give a lumen number at 25C and 85C.
> 
> ...


I guess memory didn't serve me very well on that. Important thing is it seems like the thermal threshold is set a bit high for the lights electronics reliability which was the reason I mentioned it. Makes sense that the internal temp. will be higher than lights case temp. Will test case temp. up to 150F but won't purposely go beyond that point. Only a couple of months away from 100 degree night time ride temps. here, it'll be interesting to see if the light will activate its thermal protection under those conditions.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I found out today that the light has been shipped. Going by the 3-5 business day shipping estimate I was given I should have it next week sometime and be able to post current draw and some light-meter readings compared to some of my other lights. Maybe even a glamour shot or two mounted on one of my bikes!
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

It came today!!! I measured a few things that I'll list here. Light looks pretty nice for the price they're asking. I'll write more when I get a chance to do a ride with it (tomorrow maybe) but here's what I've got so far.

Weight W/QR mount: 146 grams

Battery draw: 2.75 amp. (power level 10)

Lux readings @ 2 meters/...Bounce Test..............Center Beam (Lux x 100)

C&B Seen 7 LED.....................249.5........................65.5

Ituo XP3................................295.7........................97.1

Nitefighter BT70.....................197...........................59.4

Nitefighter BT40S....................141.1.......................26.9

My lumen estimate would be a little over 2000. Beam width affects bounce test results though so without a test ride this is only a rough estimate.
Mole


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Hmm . . . so 2.75A x 2 = 5.5A. 5.5A/7 = 0.786A per emitter. According to djozz's test of an XP-G3 here (assuming same bin) an XP-G3 outputs approximately 375 lumens at 0.75A. 375 x 7 = 2,625. 20% loss for optics (total guess) = 2,100 lumens. These are very rough estimates, but 2,000 lumens is reasonable.

Would love to hear more on this light. How is beam pattern compared to a BT40S?

-Garry


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*QR Mount & Remote*

Here's some pictures of the very nice QR mount and wireless remote supplied with the light. Mount is plastic (flat finish) but looks quite strong, attaches smoothly, allows for horizontal adjustments but unfortunately wont fit 35mm bars. Band attached remote mount looks like it will work fine but need to ride with it to give a proper evaluation. If the wind dies down I'll go out tonight to see how it all works on a actual ride. Looks good so far.
Mole


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> ......but unfortunately wont fit 35mm bars.


I'm pretty sure one of my MagicShine to GoPro adapters would be a straight bolt-on fit to that light. And you already have a 35mm GpPro mount....


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OK Vanc, here's what it looks like under the mount. Lots of flat area to work with.
Mole


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

MagicShine version for a non-finned adapter and a Nitefighter BT70 version if one wanted heatsink fins on the adapter, would work.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

*First Ride*

First ride was mostly positive. Very impressed with beam pattern, light intensity and remote functionality.



> Would love to hear more on this light. How is beam pattern compared to a BT40S?
> 
> -Garry


Beam pattern not as wide, tons more throw. Looking at the center-beam lux #'s I posted a couple of threads back the almost 2.5x light intensity is a good indication of how much extra throw you get. Would still consider this a flood though. It just relies on softer spill light in the foreground and concentrates more of it's power quite a bit further out compared to the BT40S flooding the foreground with light at the expense of beam reach. C&B Seen is a far better light for going fast! Pared with a Gloworm X2 on my helmet the X2 hardly provided any extra visibility except when looking to either side. The C&B Seen light also matched the X2 emitter tint which is my only disappointment in the lights performance. Gloworms tend to have a little warmer tint than typical Gemini/Magicshine/Niterider lights but this is still a cool white light. That being said emphasizes how good the beam pattern is since I could run this light a lot hotter than my typical cool white lumen limit without the usual glare related issues. "The Mayor" would have loved this light.

Bar mount worked perfectly, stable and easy to adjust. Had less luck with the remote mount though. Thin rubber bands don't provide enough tension to keep the remote stable. Putting a red Gemini band on seemed to help quite a lot so will try this on the next ride. Wireless remote worked awesome (best I've tried so far) in spite of the unstable mount.

For a little over $50 delivered I'm pretty happy with this light. I really just bought it for testing and to try a wireless remote but even though I prefer neutral white tints for most situations this is definitely not a light-head that's just going to sit in my light box.
Mole

*Vancbiker* - I have a BT70 with one of you finned mounts so I'll have to give it a try.


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

I appreciate the additional feedback and supplement that you have added here, thank you.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

EFMax said:


> I appreciate the additional feedback and supplement that you have added here, thank you.


Thank you for introducing us to this company. I'm not sure how familiar you are with their product line but I spotted a couple of things in their accessory section that may be of interest to others on MTBR. Do you have or have you seen the 2 cell battery box or the helmet flashlight mount? Pictures and descriptions are pretty poor on the C&B Seen website so I was wondering if you had any experience with these products?
Mole


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Wow! $18 + shipping for that 2 cell case! Wonder how good it is? Thanks for the heads up Mole.

Also, that beam pattern sounds very usable. Too bad it's not neutral white. 

-Garry


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> Thank you for introducing us to this company. I'm not sure how familiar you are with their product line but I spotted a couple of things in their accessory section that may be of interest to others on MTBR. Do you have or have you seen the 2 cell battery box or the helmet flashlight mount? Pictures and descriptions are pretty poor on the C&B Seen website so I was wondering if you had any experience with these products?
> Mole


No I have not.. I use a rather big LiPo battery setup in a water bottle so I have not bothered with any other power source.


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ...For a little over $50 delivered I'm pretty happy with this light. I really just bought it for testing and to try a wireless remote but even though* I prefer neutral white tints for most situations this is definitely not a light-head that's just going to sit in my light box.*
> Mole
> 
> *Vancbiker* - I have a BT70 with one of you finned mounts so I'll have to give it a try.


Sounds like this light is a winner ( output wise ). Now all that has to be done is to convince the seller to get these in stock with NW XP-G3's. :thumbsup:

Since you're using this lamp on the bars I was thinking you might try applying some diffusing tape ( or lenses ) to two or three of the LED's. Doing this might get you some added spill up close.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> Sounds like this light is a winner ( output wise ). Now all that has to be done is to convince the seller to get these in stock with NW XP-G3's.


Emitter tint is definitely not ideal for most of us. Also definitely satisfied with output and beam pattern but so far this is based on indoor measurements and one ride. We'll see how good a deal this ends up being after I get some UI questions answered by the Seller, finish my instrument testing, and get more ride time on this light.



> Since you're using this lamp on the bars I was thinking you might try applying some diffusing tape ( or lenses ) to two or three of the LED's. Doing this might get you some added spill up close.


With my glare sensitivity I like the fact that the foreground light is not overpowering. Still you never really know till you try something. Not familiar with the tape but I have several of the elliptical lenses Action sells that I could modify to just cover the bottom few LED's. Shouldn't make the foreground any brighter, just wider.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> Emitter tint is definitely not ideal for most of us. Also definitely satisfied with output and beam pattern but so far this is based on indoor measurements and one ride. *We'll see how good a deal this ends up being after I get some UI questions answered by the Seller, finish my instrument testing, and get more ride time on this light.*


I found a couple of more issues with the 7up C&B Seen light. Below is an email I received today in regards to not being able to reprogram preset intensity levels. Answer unfortunate (at least they were honest about it) but programming mode still works allowing you to scroll up or down (10 - 100%) in 10% increments fairly easily with the excellent working wireless remote.



> C&B Seen <[email protected]>
> 
> To
> Richard Warsinske
> ...


Next issue involves thermal issues. Bench test with my infrared thermometer activated the thermal protection on this light at only 127 degrees. Was surprised and continued to take readings after the light stepped down to 10% power. Temp. of light-head continued to rise for the first 2 minutes which is not a good sign. Temp. only increased a few degrees but doing the same test with a couple of other lights (Gemini Duo, Nitefighter BT21), both dropped 15 degrees in the same period of time. Had no step down issues on my first ride with the light but it's getting warmer here so I need to get some time on the light. Poor thermal path, assembled with no thermal paste, or both (my guess at this point). Will attempt to disassemble the front of the light to see what I find and hopefully come up with a solution.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Thermal update. In spite of the poor thermal bench test results still have not had any step-down while riding. Last nights ride included about 5 mi. of 4 - 12mph single track run in the highest preset mode (80% power, est. 1750 lumens) with ambient ride temps. in the 85 - 90 degree range with no issues. Suspected thermal path issues certainly don't make this light unusable at these temps. which may be as high as most would ever see. I will see another 20 degrees on top of tonights temp. so will continue with looking for ways to better cool the light.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I may have to retract my comment about the emitter tint being cool white on this C&B Seen light. First light I use as a helmet combo was my Gloworm X2 (cool white) and they looked pretty close in tint. Night before last I used one of my older Gemini Olympia lights (cool white) and the C&B Seen was considerable warmer looking. Last night I tried my Ituo XP3 and it was ever so slightly warmer looking but really only noticeable because I was paying attention to the tint. XP3 was by far the best combo with the C&BS.. since it also had better throw which the other two lights did not. I sent a email to my contact at C&B Seen and they're going to check with the factory and get me the Kelvin range on the emitters (plus some better pictures of the 2 cell battery box and the flashlight helmet mount). Will post when I get updates on this. Also was told the programmable mode intensity levels problem (not being able to save the changes) will be fixed on the next factory production run but have no idea on a time frame for this.

Thermal sensitivity still has not been an issue with this light while moving. Was 94 degrees when I left my house @ 8:30 pm last night and within a couple of miles I hit a 4 mile section of dirt canal bank that I could run the light on highest preset (80%) without having any other traffic to deal with and the light handled this fine. Light case was warm but I could grab it and hold on with no discomfort so I'd say it still has a bit to go before heat is an issue. More later.... 
Mole


----------



## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

MRMOLE said:


> Also was told the programmable mode intensity levels problem (not being able to save the changes) will be fixed on the next factory production run but have no idea on a time frame for this.
> Mole


Is this issue with the light unit or the remote unit - as I would like this feature and wonder if when sorted, it would be a straight swap over, especially if it is only the remote unit - though I suspect it is all done on the chipset in the light unit..


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> Is this issue with the light unit or the remote unit - as I would like this feature and wonder if when sorted, it would be a straight swap over, especially if it is only the remote unit - though I suspect it is all done on the chipset in the light unit..


Chip/programming issue, pretty sure that's the light-head. I'm getting used to the presets but it's not how I would have had the light setup.

*VANCBIKER:* No go on the BT70 mount. I'll post some picks later.

Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Here's the mount shots I promised.

View attachment 1135947

View attachment 1135948


Using the hole closest to the front of the light works with the relief channel but contacts cooling fins fore and aft. Looks fixable though.
Mole


----------



## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Yeah, it's going to take a special adapter.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Had another ride last night with the C&B Seen 7-up combo'd with my Ituo XP3 on my helmet. Slight tint difference doesn't seem to bother me as I like this setup a lot. Have been running the light in the programming mode on the trails so I can adjust output to the desired level up or down using the 2 button wireless remote. Will be a nicer light when they get the save programming function on the UI fixed (promised next production run) but the ability to adjust the light level up and down with the remote makes the 10 programming levels easy to access. Ended up toggling between level 4 & 5 and using 70% on the XP3 for the rocky babyhead covered trail I rode. Temps. were in the 90's and the light barely seem warm, but then it shouldn't at those power levels anyway. Even though the 7-up has a cooler tint than my BT40 I have less glare issues with this light because it doesn't flood the foreground with too much light. Sooo much more throw and still wide enough of a beam for my needs are going to make the BT40s my second choice when recommending a cheap bar light to anyone (as long as it stays reliable).

Tired of waiting for a response from C&B Seen about the emitter tint I pulled out several of my lights to compare them shown on an interior wall. Gemini was the coolest tint followed by my Gloworm/Ravemen then Ituo , and all the Nitefighters were the warmest.
The C&B Seen was closest to the Gloworm tint wise and from ride testing I know it works well the GW's and the Ituo's I have so I'll call the tint coolish. Will email C&B Seen again and post actual emitter tint if I hear from them and hopefully get some better pictures of their battery box and flashlight helmet mount.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I've been getting quite a bit of use out of this light and been very happy with its performance. For a $50 lighthead you get 2000+ lumens (calculated off my lux readings), an excellent QR bar mount that has horizontal aim adjustment, not super floody with excellent throw beam pattern, no overheating issues (desert tested), and a wireless remote. Pretty good bargain IMO. All has not been perfect though. Remote has proven to be a little glitch requiring use of the mode button on the lighthead to shut the light off sometimes. Adjustable mode function never worked because of a manufacturing programming glitch that would not allow the setting of any mode adjustments made so instead of getting 3 intensity adjustable modes I ended up with 3 preset modes (10%/30%/80%) and a special mode (programming mode) that could be switched up and down by the remote from 10% - 100%. Worst of the problems though is that you no longer can order this light on the C&B Seen website. I don't know what's up at the moment, I've emailed them but they've not been the best at responding so not sure if I get an answer. Too bad cause I consider this a good alternative to the BT40s (as long as it stays reliable) that while costing a little more gives you more performance (especially for fast riding) and more features (wireless remote, quality QR bar mount). Hopefully I'll hear something from C&B Seen and hopefully they'll bring this light back with the programming fixed but if not this will probably be the last post I make on this light.
Mole


----------



## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Would be nice to see the light return and the issues fixed. 

-Garry


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> garrybunk said:
> 
> 
> > Would be nice to see the light return and the issues fixed.
> ...


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> Hi again Richard,
> 
> We shall be stocking the 7-led light again - awaiting news from factory that they have sorted out the software program before I re-order.
> 
> ...


Here's the content of an email I got this morning from Roger @ C&BSeen so looks like the 7-up may be available again. 2000+ lumens, wireless remote, programmable modes and a very nice/functional/solid QR mount. Quite the bargain for a $50 light-head! Will post when I hear they're available.
Mole


----------



## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

Hello MRMOLE,
the website has no update on this. I dropped them a message to find out. Wondering if you have received any update recently?
Thanks


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

eTrex_FSR said:


> Hello MRMOLE,
> the website has no update on this. I dropped them a message to find out. Wondering if you have received any update recently?
> Thanks


The email I quoted from them in my last post is the most current information I have. Would appreciate if you'd post anything you here from them. I'm still very happy the light. Performance is outstanding for the little over $50 I paid for it and no problems at all so far. 
Mole


----------



## eTrex_FSR (Dec 18, 2009)

Hello,
here the response I got today:

_"...The lights will be listed again shortly and I have put your email into my 7-led backorder file so that I can let you know when they are available.
Regards
Roger..."_

Lets see what the timeframe will be. I keep you posted, once he sends me an update.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

OK, the 7up light is listed on the website again. Unfortunately it's still "out of stock" but still good news from a "light at the end of the tunnel" point of view. I also want to point out a couple of spec. changes I noted. Increase of claimed lumens from 3000 to 3300 (hopefully not a typo). Preset levels have also changed from 10/30/80% to 10/25/100% which is significant for those not ordering the remote option which is the only way I know of that you can reprogram the preset levels. 
Mole


----------



## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mrmole said:


> > ...I noticed the 7up is now listed on the c&b seen website again. It's still "out of stock" but has instructions on how to get on the backorder list and be informed when they are available again. All spec. And description pages are there too. Two things i noticed that are listed as different are the total lumen amount (up to 3300 from 3000) and preset levels (10/25/100% from 10/30/80%). Notable for those ordering without the remote but since they're supposed to fix the adjustable mode set function not a big deal for the rest except an extra bit of output is always nice.
> 
> 
> I'm know it's tempting to want to order the C&Bseen 7up because it's so inexpensive but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to put your own email address on some sort of waiting list. To each their own I guess but I wouldn't do it. At least not unless I was given an actual delivery date and even then I would be very hesitate.
> ...


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=Cat
> I'm know it's tempting to want to order the C&Bseen 7up because it's so inexpensive but I'm not sure it would be a good idea to put your own email address on some sort of waiting list. To each their own I guess but I wouldn't do it. At least not unless I was given an actual delivery date and even then I would be very hesitate.
> 
> The vendor that was selling this lamp ran out of the original stock really fast. No effort seemed to be made at the time to replenish the stock. Now they want to know "first" who is interested in buying the


 Since this is a new company for most of us I'm just going to go over my dealings with them. If you go back over the posts I've made you'll see there was a considerable delay on my order because of a company holiday. It was posted on their website and I was contacted by email and offered a refund if the delay was a problem (which it wasn't). Once back and open for business order was processed and I received my light in a timely manner considering it was from overseas (UK to Arizona in approx. a week). Next contact was when I noticed it was not possible to set any programming changes to the presets in the programming mode. They explained they had just discovered it also and had deleted the lighthead + remote option (remote only way to enter programming mode) and would not restock the 7up till the factory had fixed the problem (which I assume is fixed since they have reordered from the factory). That's it so far but nothing to make me uncomfortable dealing with them again. I'll post something about availability as soon as I hear anything for those who don't care to be put on the backorder list (no money required for this). My impression is this is a very small operation so no idea on availability volume but even without the remote optioin the light didn't stay on the website for very long. Hope this helps.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I got an email from Roger @ C&BSeen indicating the factory will ship to them on 10/12 and they expect arrival time towards the end of the following week. They offered to send me a PayPal invoice to preorder but I'm holding off till I get confirmation that the programming has been corrected and it will be possible to change and set the preset levels. Either way I am going to order one of the 3up 1900 lights for evaluation as an alternative to the BT40s. Should have a initial review on the 1900 by the end of the month.

Also have of couple of issues that have revealed themselves with extended use of the 7up. 1) Some overheating. Initially I had noted bench testing the 7up that running it with no air flow to the step down point that lighthead temps. continued to rise after the light was turned off (indicates inadequate thermal path). In use I didn't have any issues though till I recently tried using it as a helmet light. As a bar light (for mtn. biking) I generally preferred running the light in the 50%-70% range which worked fine even in the hotter summer months. For helmet use I tend to use higher settings and reached the step down point fairly quickly @ the 100% level. Ride temps. were in the low 90F range so still fairly hot for most areas and not an issue for me since I really didn't care for the light helmet mounted. Weight was fine but beam pattern too wide for my taste even though throw was OK. 2) The remote performance has become inconsistent. Some times it just won't work at all and other time it's fine. Definitely getting worse so it may just be it needs a new battery. If that's it I would have expected longer life from the battery but when mtn. biking I use the programming mode to change levels and am consistently adjusting. Hopefully the battery is the problem and it's just going to require more frequent replacement than expected. Will get back on this.
Mole


----------



## MaverickRider (Sep 15, 2017)

Looks like this will be the successor of my SolarStorm X3 I bought in 2014!

Question though, can I use this light with SolarStorm battery packs?


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MaverickRider said:


> Looks like this will be the successor of my SolarStorm X3 I bought in 2014!
> 
> Question though, can I use this light with SolarStorm battery packs?


Power cable fits standard magicshine style battery connectors. I've used Gemini/Nitefighter/Xeccon/Ituuo batteries with good results.
Mole


----------



## MaverickRider (Sep 15, 2017)

MRMOLE said:


> Power cable fits standard magicshine style battery connectors. I've used Gemini/Nitefighter/Xeccon/Ituuo batteries with good results.
> Mole


So basically, I can use my pack but not screw down the battery. Got it, thanks.

How's the remote like?


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

MaverickRider said:


> So basically, I can use my pack but not screw down the battery. Got it, thanks.
> 
> How's the remote like?


The Ituo batteries have the screw together connector and what I use most often. Works fine.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Not so good news in todays email. 7up programming issue was not fixed so *not possible to program and set preset levels. * Not the end of the world as you can still scroll up and down in the programming mode to access all the power levels. Not as preferable as being able to set the there preset levels where you want them though. Too bad!
Mole


----------



## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

That's a shame. I was getting excited about this light and considering a purchase. They had a few months to sort it out, I wonder what's taking them so long.


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

varider said:


> That's a shame. I was getting excited about this light and considering a purchase. They had a few months to sort it out, I wonder what's taking them so long.


Puzzling for sure, but I've noticed the same issue with a few other lights lately (Zanflare B3 and I think the new Ravemen CR900). Will be interesting to see if the C&B Seen 3up I'm ordering has the same problem. 7up still a very good performing light that is consistently in my usage rotation along with a lot of far more expensive lights.
Mole


----------



## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

> QUOTE=MRMOLE;13374042) The remote performance has become inconsistent. Some times it just won't work at all and other time it's fine. Definitely getting worse so it may just be it needs a new battery. If that's it I would have expected longer life from the battery but when mtn. biking I use the programming mode to change levels and am consistently adjusting. Hopefully the battery is the problem and it's just going to require more frequent replacement than expected. Will get back on this.
> Mole


Small update! I replaced the remote battery and it's back to working reliably. Hopefully the supplied battery wasn't the best when new. Easy to diagnose though if remote battery life is going to be an issue. Could be using the light in the programming mode uses extra battery power since is gets used a lot more changing light intensity in 10% incraments.
Mole

***Got an invoice on a 1900 3up so hope to have it by the end of next week. Not sure where I'm going to post the review yet (here, new thread, cheap Chinese lights) but will be comparing it directly to the BT40s***


----------

