# Knees



## Mantramsagro (Jul 7, 2012)

Dealing with a grumpy knee for the first time in my 35 year biking history. It got a bit puffy, then gave out going down stairs. It normally feels fine, but it will give out and hurt in some positions. Not one to go to the doctor right away, I am following the RICE advice. (Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevate) Wrapping an Ace bandage around it definitely makes it feel stronger. It has been a week so far but I would really like to ride next week. Should I risk it or rest some more?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Mantramsagro said:


> Dealing with a grumpy knee for the first time in my 35 year biking history. It got a bit puffy, then gave out going down stairs. It normally feels fine, but it will give out and hurt in some positions. Not one to go to the doctor right away, I am following the RICE advice. (Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevate) Wrapping an Ace bandage around it definitely makes it feel stronger. It has been a week so far but I would really like to ride next week. Should I risk it or rest some more?



What's the worst that could happen? Go for it!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Just kidding! I can feel people furiously pounding their keyboards already!

Probably worth seeing a doctor if you want to make cycling a regular part of your life. Most likely some guided physical therapy.

Once you do start riding again take a close look at your fit, too high or low saddle height can really mess you up.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

In getting professional help be aware of the PT exercises that aid tracking and hip area strength. That might not make sense but I know I'm not the only old fart aided by it.

My knees got happier moving to flat pedals but I still use the feet belts with road and gravel riding. I put flats on the gravel bike and kept pedaling moderately when tougher MTB and all/any/adventure rides made the knees tender.


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

I agree. Use it, but pay attention - if it hurts, back off. If it continues to hurt and no improvement, then time to find out what's at issue. Go see a doc. 101 things can go wrong with your knee, some will self-correct if you give it a chance. Others, like torn ligaments, won't, but sometimes there is a work around to them. That usually requires time-out and proactive therapies.


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## flyingsqrl (Jan 23, 2011)

This injury isn’t cured by resting, you need a diagnosis of the cause and treatment such as physical therapy. Ignore it now and it will be worse the next time. Good news is that cycling can help. I’ll go out on a limb (ha!) and suggest that the puffiness was a sign of knee injury. For example only, it may have been a deep knee bend that tore meniscus. Or a twist while carrying something. Both of those have got me in the past. Maybe you can recall what happened to cause the injury.
More here:








What Is a Trick Knee?


Trick knees are a condition where your knee suddenly gives out. Learn what causes them and exercises to help.




www.webmd.com


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Nothing beats a great PT.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> What's the worst that could happen? Go for it!


could be gout, could be lyme, could be arthritis....or just tweaked

don't worry, when it finally explodes and fills up, that part really hurts a lot

--

this needle feels great once you get past the fact they are jamming it in to drain it


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## Jolyzara (Jan 11, 2022)

Mantramsagro said:


> Dealing with a grumpy knee for the first time in my 35 year biking history. It got a bit puffy, then gave out going down stairs. It normally feels fine, but it will give out and hurt in some positions. Not one to go to the doctor right away, I am following the RICE advice. (Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevate) Wrapping an Ace bandage around it definitely makes it feel stronger. It has been a week so far but I would really like to ride next week. Should I risk it or rest some more?


I hate going to the doctor. Every time something is going on all they say is to "rest it for 4-6 weeks and if it is still bothering you come back." Why go other than to not get the "why didn't you come in earlier" comment when you tell them it has been 4-6 weeks? SMH.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

My condition is specific and may be different than yours. Both mountain biking and tele skiing, there was a year where I got pain directly under the left kneecap, to the point I had to curtail both activities, but no swelling. I noticed that the range of side to side and up and down motion on that kneecap was considerably less than the right. I started moving it side to side and up and down, with my leg straight and got the range equal to the other kneecap. Since then, I've never had a problem with either knee.
I don't go to doctors for this sort of stuff because it'll be the classic, 
Me: "Doc, it hurts when I do that."
Doc: "Don't do that."


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MSU Alum said:


> I don't go to doctors for this sort of stuff because it'll be the classic,
> Me: "Doc, it hurts when I do that."
> Doc: "Don't do that."



It's important to seek out a doctor who's a cyclist.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> It's important to seek out a doctor who's a cyclist.


Sadly, I can't find a doctor that does all the stuff where I get hurt.


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

There are GPs that advertise as doing sports medicine and often they work with local athletic teams. They will provide the best advice. A MRI may be needed as an x-ray will not show up possible damage to the knee. 

Knees take a lot more of a beating on the trails where one is not sitting down on the saddle as one does with road or gravel bikes. A road bike on pavement and using lower gears than necessary will help strengthen the muscles around the knees without aggrevating you injury. Or ride you mountain bike on the pavement and ride sitting down. 

Physical therapists have their place but not for doing diagnostics for an injury and they cannot order an MRI or medication. I would advise against the use of corticosteroid that will give momentary relief and make it seem like the knee is better when it is not and still vulnerable to further injury.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Calsun said:


> Physical therapists have their place but not for doing diagnostics for an injury and they cannot order an MRI or medication.


I don't think anyone was suggesting otherwise but proper PT can be even more important than the diagnosis.


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## MaX-D (May 13, 2020)

It could be a mobility issue, Tight hips or weak ankles could cause knee problems. This was my issue with knee pain. Once I started stretching and doing mobility exercises to loosen up the hips and ankles, the knee pain went away.

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Get a diagnosis and follow a treatment plan.

A few years ago I had swelling and mild pain, the size like a ping pong ball, perfectly centered on back of my left knee. Ultrasound confirmed it was a baker's cyst. Over the years it grows larger then subsides. My dr knows how active I am she advised me to do whatever I want. I continue to bike, run and (lift weights) crossfit. I have to live with it until it stops me

Your diagnosis might be something different but at least you would know what you are dealing with


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

MaX-D said:


> It could be a mobility issue, Tight hips or weak ankles could cause knee problems. This was my issue with knee pain. Once I started stretching and doing mobility exercises to loosen up the hips and ankles, the knee pain went away.


MOST of my knee pains have been similar. 

The one exception, and the only time I've had a knee "give out" turned out to be a bucket-handle meniscus tear. That resulted in considerable pain and an inability to straighten my leg because the wadded up meniscus locked my knee into place. Trying to "push through" the pain on that one would have caused additional damage leaving me with even more bone-on-bone action than I ended up with. I'll probably still need a knee replacement at some point but so far so good.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

I'm 6'-7" 53 yr age. Have had knee issues though the years from younger bball days. I've tweaked them throughout the years from various things. Luckily no surgeries. I just listen to the body and take it easy on rides and increase/decrease intensity. I'm doing a little shoulder PT right now.
If it hurts much, don't do it. Knees I wouldn't mess around with. You said a week still hurting. I'd give it another,if not any better Dr time. 
Hope it gets better soon.


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## ilostmypassword (Dec 9, 2006)

Sounds like a meniscus tear. I'd get it checked out ASAP and get onto treatment,


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

I buggered up my knee in Feb while snowboarding. Finally went to a physio after a couple of weeks of pain and no improvement. He did some poking and prodding, gave me some exercises that included 'rolling' the muscles of my thigh, and it's almost back to normal. Still not full range of motion when I bend it, which means I can't stand-up-pedal in a crouch yet. But it feels like I'm a week or two away.

The point is that you don't know what you have or what to do about it. A doc or a physio does. If it's not something like a tear, they'll give you exercises and therapy that'll speed things along. And if it is a tear, you don't want to keep ignoring it and let it get worse.


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Cortisone steroid is a proactive intervention. It reduces swelling, which can reduce pain. Reducing swelling is critical for healing.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

I had an old injury that would flare up after 100 miles. Bad enough 2 years ago I had to abandon a 350 mile race. I made it last year, but had to pull way back and take much longer. Got surgery after that. No issues this year in the race. Did a 100 miler a few weeks later (few weeks ago) and that worked good too. It was damaged meniscus. It’s not perfect, but appears to be way better the pre-surgery.


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## ElTortoise (Jul 27, 2015)

I'm not a fan of going to the doctor right away either but, in this case, I would get it checked out to see what's going on.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

cyclelicious said:


> Get a diagnosis and follow a treatment plan.
> 
> A few years ago I had swelling and mild pain, the size like a ping pong ball, perfectly centered on back of my left knee. Ultrasound confirmed it was a baker's cyst. Over the years it grows larger then subsides. My dr knows how active I am she advised me to do whatever I want. I continue to bike, run and (lift weights) crossfit. I have to live with it until it stops me
> 
> Your diagnosis might be something different but at least you would know what you are dealing with


Due to arthritis in my r knee, i had a baker's cyst for about 10 years.
The last 4 years it got bad enough that i had to stop skiing for a few weeks each year.

I went to talk to an ortho surgeon, thinking knee replacement.

When he found out that i have arthritis and no internal rotation in my r hip, he said, do the hip first, it may fix the knee problem.

I was skeptical, but i went ahead with the hip replacement in June 21.

This winter i skied a lot, and with zero knee issues.

I think that because of lack of internal rotation in my r hip, i was putting a lot of pressure on the r knee.

This may not be pertinent to issues in this thread, but i thought it could help someone.
So

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## PS mtb (10 mo ago)

J.B. Weld said:


> Just kidding! I can feel people furiously pounding their keyboards already!
> 
> Probably worth seeing a doctor if you want to make cycling a regular part of your life. Most likely some guided physical therapy.
> 
> Once you do start riding again take a close look at your fit, too high or low saddle height can really mess you up.


And fore and aft...I was taught front of knee centered with pedal spindle when cranks are parallel to ground, front pedal


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Jayem said:


> I had an old injury that would flare up after 100 miles. Bad enough 2 years ago I had to abandon a 350 mile race. I made it last year, but had to pull way back and take much longer. Got surgery after that. No issues this year in the race. Did a 100 miler a few weeks later (few weeks ago) and that worked good too. It was damaged meniscus. It’s not perfect, but appears to be way better the pre-surgery.


I've done a lotta bad stuff to my knees. I've gone through plenty of PT, which can certainly help with some conditions. On the other hand, a torn meniscus doesn't get fixed with PT. I've had two meniscus repairs. The first one felt miraculous after recovery, the second one helped but wasn't perfect. I'm in another cycle leading towards surgery of some type. Not a lot of fun, but it is what it is. For my current condition, a PRP injection seemed to help for a while, but I'm back to having issues and I need to schedule another appointment with my knee surgeon. Ugh...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

There’s also synvisc stuff


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## gleetrevino (Aug 28, 2014)

Sounds like a meniscus tear, some have problems with stairs after a meniscus tear. When it puffed up was your knee really stiff? That would be water in the knee joint causing the stiffness and having it drained feels so good. I would press into the medial/inner side of your knee joint rather hard and if you have discomfort it could be a tear. I have had both knees scoped for meniscus tears. I also recommend Bauerfeind Genutrain knee braces, super comfortable versus neoprene braces. They also can give you a cortisone injection or a medical "lube" into the joint, but they will need an MRI to diagnose a tear. Quad strength is key to keeping your knee joint from bearing the brunt of all the forces across it. Some PT places will give you a free assessment.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Mantramsagro said:


> Dealing with a grumpy knee for the first time in my 35 year biking history. It got a bit puffy, then gave out going down stairs. It normally feels fine, but it will give out and hurt in some positions. Not one to go to the doctor right away, I am following the RICE advice. (Rest, Ice, Compression, and Elevate) Wrapping an Ace bandage around it definitely makes it feel stronger. It has been a week so far but I would really like to ride next week. Should I risk it or rest some more?


You should be talking to the folks in the next thread down who don’t believe in full suspension bikes 🤣


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## gleetrevino (Aug 28, 2014)

dir-T said:


> MOST of my knee pains have been similar.
> 
> The one exception, and the only time I've had a knee "give out" turned out to be a bucket-handle meniscus tear. That resulted in considerable pain and an inability to straighten my leg because the wadded up meniscus locked my knee into place. Trying to "push through" the pain on that one would have caused additional damage leaving me with even more bone-on-bone action than I ended up with. I'll probably still need a knee replacement at some point but so far so good.


Agreed, having scopes on both knees my Ortho told me when the pain becomes unbearable I'll see you for a replacement. 50 is too young for one so it's important to delay it as long as possible. Avoid running, extreme lateral movements, and CrossFit.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

CLDSDL43 said:


> You said a week still hurting. I'd give it another,if not any better Dr time.
> Hope it gets better soon.


I'm not sure what labor/staffing is like in the OP's town but doctor's offices' where I live are booked out MONTHS for non-emergency visits. It might be smart to at least get on a schedule because the "give it more time" might be beyond his control.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

gleetrevino said:


> 50 is too young for one so it's important to delay it as long as possible. Avoid running, extreme lateral movements, and CrossFit.


Yeah, I was 42 when I had my surgery. I told the doc, "I want to snowboard into my 60s and bicylce 'till I'm dead". His reply, "well, quit running and we'll see how you do".


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

dir-T said:


> Yeah, I was 42 when I had my surgery. I told the doc, "I want to snowboard into my 60s and bicylce 'till I'm dead". His reply, "well, quit running and we'll see how you do".


My chiropractor (who has seen me for 25ish years, knows all my ailments, and referred me to my knee surgeon) has a saying: "Old runners become cyclists."

I actually started as a high school and collegiate runner, burnt out, and become a cyclist prior to tons of knee injuries. My knee injuries have come from soccer, mountain biking, and skiing.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

dir-T said:


> Yeah, I was 42 when I had my surgery. I told the doc, "I want to snowboard into my 60s and bicylce 'till I'm dead". His reply, "well, quit running and we'll see how you do".


I just recently convinced my "runner" friend to take up bicycling. He is late 50's and started running about 5 yrs ago. About 4.5 of those has continually suffered with knee/foot/ankle, etc pains.
He absolutely loves the bike and thanks me all the time for convincing him to ride.


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## BartAtx (9 mo ago)

this guy will help your knees feel better if you follow him. ATG | Personal Training Reinvented 
kneesovertoesguy
plus I did a lot of squats, leg curls, leg extensions, lunges and the elliptical backwards to strengthen my knees going into ski season...the best they've felt in years!


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## Mantramsagro (Jul 7, 2012)

BartAtx said:


> this guy will help your knees feel better if you follow him. ATG | Personal Training Reinvented
> kneesovertoesguy
> plus I did a lot of squats, leg curls, leg extensions, lunges and the elliptical backwards to strengthen my knees going into ski season...the best they've felt in years!


He looks like a "work-em 'till they blow" kind of guy! 

I have taken a few rides and my knee is doing pretty well. It seems standing around makes it hurt a touch as does ANY lifting. The Rest-Ice-Compress-Elevate treatment is working well to keep me spinning.


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## Mantramsagro (Jul 7, 2012)

X-rays came back and it turns out that I have a "Loose Object" in my joint. I have been riding with no issues . Will have orthoscopic surgery later in the summer to remove the bone or cartlidge.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

Good luck and hopefully no more knee problems for you.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

I took my chronic aches to a good sports doc this winter, and nothing looked bad enough for him to get involved yet. He sent me to PT for 12 weeks, if that doesn't help, we'll refresh your MRI. PT is quite good at finding where you are weak and inflexible and working on that, and turns out, hitting the PT and weights this winter have greatly improved everything. I will be lifting and working on balanced strength and flexibility for the rest of my life. Maybe I have something the surgeon will have to address someday, but I'm a true believer on good PT and gaining strength and flexibility. Cycling alone isn't enough to keep everything in shape.


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