# The Rise of the Machines?



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


----------



## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


----------



## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


----------



## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


----------



## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


----------



## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
Them vs. us.
Divide and conquer.
I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


----------



## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

Not only do those arguments have no winners, they cause us all to be losers:


They limit effective cooperation between user groups on things like trail maintenance, land preservation, and advocacy.
They effectively encourage banned user groups to act irresponsibly (riding where they are not allowed, jumping fences, cutting illegal trails, etc.).
They make it harder to educate all user groups on proper trail etiquette and maintenance.
They give the upper hand to developers and resource-extraction companies. Much easier to buy land and build houses on it when recreational users are divided and fighting amongst each other.
I'd rather share well-maintained, well-marked, and well-built trails with other user groups any day than see my local riding area turned into yet another suburban development.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


----------



## Weinerts (Feb 3, 2011)

i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

The infighting within the biking community isn't doing anyone any good.....


----------



## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

I am an advocate for my local trails and legally ebikes are not allowed. Ebikers do trail work they even help with group rides but I can't get a flipping soul to advocate with the local land manager to change the language which is fine for the short term. Long term not so much we are running off class two and threes and straight up e-motos when we find them because if they start causing issues they will enforce the ban on all ebikes. Don't like the rules do what mtb riders did, advocate take work time off attend meetings. Don't even get me started on these barefoot, helmetless, vapping one wheel guys blasting music on the trail...


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Just around the corner...riderless ebikes!


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Weinerts said:


> i have two kind and amazing peeps who ride ebikes because of health (heart) problems. remove the jerk from the trails and problems will be solved.


I ride on the road with some people who are out there on e bikes just for the social aspect. They have health conditions so they definitely need the assistance provided by an ebike. It took one lady from the back of the group and being miserable on most rides to having a great time as long as the battery doesn't die. It has completely changed her experience.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.

I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


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## jcavicchi (Aug 31, 2021)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


Don't judge until you try.

As an ex-enduro (motorcycle) rider I can't tell you how many times I had mountain bikers tell me it must be so easy to ride with an engine.

Ha!

Never, ever have I been as tired from riding my mountain bike as I have at the end of a 60 mile enduro raced on my 450.

This is not about who is lazy and who is not. It is about bringing together all users to work as one to maintain and preserve trail access, and to get as many people outdoors and away from screens as possible.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> Too many people fall victim to marketing. Now people actually think you need a motor on a freaking bicycle... I guess the fact that most people are fat and out of shape because of our horrible processed food situation isn't helping anything.


I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> I guess people fell for the marketing that they need suspension and gears too.


You sound like their target demographic.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

It's "douce-bag" that does it for me.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Bacon Fat said:


> Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.


I find this statement to be profound.
=sParty


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

GKelley said:


> You sound like their target demographic.


Hell yeah I am. If a company is selling a bike that will add to my riding experience, I am interested. Ebike....sign me up. SS Rigid... oh yeah. FS trail bike.... sold. Gravel bike..... I'll give it a spin. Fat bike.. need it.


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## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

Sparticus said:


> I find this statement to be profound.
> =sParty


Not long ago, it was mtb'ers fighting for access to trails, now we have mtb'ers fighting to prevent access to trails.

This is a sad truth to todays state of affairs....


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## Nosdeho (Jun 16, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Seems to me that the ebike argument is just way overblown online, like most things these days. I’ve literally never seen a single ebike argument or confrontation on the trail. I’m sure there are plenty of people that don’t like ebikes who scream pretty loudly about it on the internet, but don’t really care when they see one actually ride by out on the trail. They certainly wouldn’t get confrontational about it.
> 
> I wouldn’t own an ebike if it was the last bike on earth, but when I see one out on the trail I don’t even think twice about it. Personally I think people should follow the rules and not ride them where they aren’t allowed, but it doesn’t do me any good to get worked up about it because people are going to do what they want and there’s nothing I can do about it.


Worst confrontations I have seen are ebikers pushing normal riders or beginners when they don't get over to pass. Other then that beside a crotchty old guy I have noticed ebike lines by the speed guys 20mph taking corners wider. Some of the old xc racers have been complaining about this. They use a moto skill hitting the brake and pedalling hard thru corners modulating control with harder casing tires. In saying that some of the xc speedsters take the same lines but that braking and pedalling definitely cause more wear. I don't mind as long as they get off their bike and build trail to both conditions.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

Bacon Fat said:


> Hell yeah I am.


I wouldn't exaclty be proud of that. But to each their own I guess... Atleast the marketers love ya.


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

1spd1way said:


> The increase in ebike purchasing and riding has forced us into a discussion of trail use not unlike the discussion of fly fishing vs. spin fishing or dirtbikes vs. atvs or hikers vs. all terrain bicycles. An argument that has no winners.
> Them vs. us.
> Divide and conquer.
> I truly believe, if you are a douce-bag on a analog bike, you will be a douce-bag on an ebike.


Well said. The majority of new rider are ebikers these days. New riders that haven't learned the etiquette on the trails that we all learned or were taught. We are best served to try and educate these people so that we can share the trails and have no negative consequences of ebikers and mtb riders being lumped together.


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