# Fandango Thread



## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Since we now own and have a maiden ride, I was thinking why not start a topic showing these bikes and the builds. 

It's for all the Fandango's rolling around out there.

Here's how ours is currently built, stems and tires are on loan to help me sort it out for best fit and grip / turning.

Build specs
Fandango 29'r size large
ATC fork
Shifters XO
Rear Der XO long
Front Der Shimano SLX 667 made for 2x9 (22/36)
Timing rings Shimano Tandem 32t
Cranks Shimano LX 175mm both positions (Hollowtech II)
Drive chainrings 22/36 Shimano
BB's LX
Chains SRAM 850 timing, 991 rear
Cassette, Shimano LX 11/32
Brakes Avid BB7
Rims, Sun MTX 33
Hubs, rear DT Swiss 540 tandem, 40 hole 145mm with 6 bolt is, front DT Swiss 440 36 hole
Spokes, DT Swiss Alpine III, 13/15/14 with brass nipples, black
Discs 203 mm cleansweep front, roundagon rear
Bars Easton EA50 25.4, flat, 5 degree, both positions
Stem, Thomson 100mm, 25.4, 15 degree
Stoker stem, Coda, 25.4, trimmed to allow further forward adjustment
Captain seatpost, Kalloy
Stoker seatpost, Thudbuster LT with dust boot
Captain saddle, Terry Fly ti
Stoker saddle, Terry Butterfly ti
Tires, Kenda Nevegal 29 x 2.2
Tubes, Pyramid

PK


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Congrats on getting it to the trail.

The 3rd pic above showing the driveline looks really slick and I've got questions. 
Do you have any pictures looking straight down on the stoker chain rings? (w/ chain on 36 and 22 rings) 
Any spacers on the timing ring? 
Any reason why 32T? Looks like it is the smallest that would fit on the spider. 
Did you alternate the direction that the bolts pass through the 36 and 32 rings? Never seen that. Any technical reason?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

bme107 said:


> Congrats on getting it to the trail.
> 
> The 3rd pic above showing the driveline looks really slick and I've got questions.
> Do you have any pictures looking straight down on the stoker chain rings? (w/ chain on 36 and 22 rings)
> ...


I wish the build didn't take as long as it did, but the bike is being ridden and delivers.

I have a photo looking down, but only showing it on the 36, with the timing chain on it's 32. FWIW, when in the 22, there is no concern at all.

The stokers 32t timing ring is shimmed outboard approx .75mm (.030"). I used some chainring spacer washers I had here. Without the shims, when going from 22 to 36, sometimes the chains would touch and lift the chain on top of the outboard chain. Keeping it simple and less likely to see a problem, I may install a thin bash guard, then spacers, then timing ring. The alignment will be acceptable with the front since it will be getting a bash guard also.

Why 32t timing rings, ground clearance. Also I had them here from the MT800. Even with 32t timing rings they still scrape on the stuff we ride over.

Yes I did alternate the chainring bolts with heads inboard and outboard. The nuts were not quite long enough to engage the timing chainring with the shim installed. The nuts are more capable of maintaining proper centering and alignment of the chainring, but more importantly, can take the shearing load without the chainring contacting the threads of the bolts. Basically better centering and less chance of the ring shifting or loosening.

PK


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

How big a pain in the ass are those rims for getting the tires mounted up? I've sworn no more Sun rims -- been down that road too many times -- but I still don't have a good 29er tandem-worthy rim in mind.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Speedub.Nate said:


> How big a pain in the ass are those rims for getting the tires mounted up? I've sworn no more Sun rims -- been down that road too many times -- but I still don't have a good 29er tandem-worthy rim in mind.


What tires are you using? I can mount WTB and Kenda kevlar and wire bead tires on the MTX's (26" and 29") by hand with no tools. More importantly, I can also remove them by hand if necessary. Even when I don't eat Wheaties.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Speedub.Nate said:


> How big a pain in the ass are those rims for getting the tires mounted up? I've sworn no more Sun rims -- been down that road too many times -- but I still don't have a good 29er tandem-worthy rim in mind.


As Alex mentioned, mounting was easy with no tools. So far with a couple of rides on them, they have not needed removal yet.

Probably pull the front tire and try something different. Was able to borrow a stack of 29'r tires from a friend. His words, try them all if you want, let me know your thoughts on what works well for you. Not sure how transparent the comparison will be from tandem to single.

PK


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

PMK said:


> I have a photo looking down, but only showing it on the 36, with the timing chain on it's 32. FWIW, when in the 22, there is no concern at all.
> 
> The stokers 32t timing ring is shimmed outboard approx .75mm (.030"). I used some chainring spacer washers I had here. Without the shims, when going from 22 to 36, sometimes the chains would touch and lift the chain on top of the outboard chain.
> 
> ...


Didn't figure that the chain would be a problem on the 22T ring, just wanted to see what the 0.75mm spacers did to the gap. No worries about taking a pic if you don't have one. I assume when the chain rode up over the timing chain it just binds before throwing everything off toward the crank?

Short nuts, got it. Do they make longer ones and you just didn't have any on hand or are you maxed out with what is available?


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

TandemNut said:


> What tires are you using? I can mount WTB and Kenda kevlar and wire bead tires on the MTX's (26" and 29") by hand with no tools. More importantly, I can also remove them by hand if necessary. Even when I don't eat Wheaties.


Probably due as much to the no-name slicks I was using as the WTBs were not so problematic mounting up the the 26" MTX rims on the C-Dale. Busted, bloody knuckles.

But yeah, my Suns have always been a bigger pain in the butt than any other rim I've built. Probably no chance of a blow-off, though.

Sorry to derail the thread. The Fandango is a beaut, PMK. I've barely been riding, tied up with the house 'n stuff, but that's coming to an end soon and I want those dang big wheels.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

So a quick update.

The few rides now on the bike have had me getting the riders fit sorted out. The 2x9 has worked spot on. 

The 36t up front is right on for flowing trails. It does handle the slow technical stuff, but with an 11/32 is a bit more effort to keep the pedals turning. An 11/34 would be good but wasn't what was new and laying around. Avid brakes are bedding in.

Still want to try a different front tire. The Kenda Nevegal isn't bad, but I'd like a bit more front grip at times.

As for performance, without sounding too much like an advertisement, the bike is fast. Obviously the best test is a stopwatch. No I have not and likely will not get that in depth. I do know that on the open areas and flowing singletrack this bike is very quick.

I will post a more detailed ride report after the newness is worn off...about 20 more miles.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

I so badly want something like that. I have a set of Turbine tandem cranks and a Rohloff just laying here.... tempting to say the least.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> I so badly want something like that. I have a set of Turbine tandem cranks and a Rohloff just laying here.... tempting to say the least.


Honestly, we have no buyers remorse at all. Heading in, we were both very hesitant. Putting miles on our own Fandango makes the test ride truly a small sample. If your budget can swing it, and a hardtail fits your terrain, this frame / bike should easily make your short list to choose from.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

The bike has now been ridden on three different trails local for us.

The first ride was a very technical singletrack trail with many logovers, some palmettos, a lot of deep sand.

The second was singletrack a more flowing singletrack, with a few slower sections, less palmettos, and far less sand.

Our third outing was on very open terrain double track. Some sections were "firmed up" with fillers to minimize sand, most of the ride is pine needle on decent base, some sections of grass, and a few hundred feet of really soft sand.

First off, so far the 2x9 is working very well. I have been working tire pressures slightly, still running Nevegals front and rear. Captains compartment is good excepting a slight saddle tilt change is needed. Stoker section needs the bars up a little bit. Stem is as high as possible, so some slight risers may need to get this done. Ironically the risers that should go on this bike went onto the ECDM since I feared snapping a carbon bar when we clip trees. Overall though it fits pretty good.

So where does it stand? For the really technical singletrack, the non granny gearing is ever so slightly to much, it's ridable but needs a little change. For more normal trails, especially the double track we typically ran the thing in 4/5/6 with the chainline virtually straight onto the cassette.

The bike works the trail very well. It has unbelievable grip (traction) on everything from loose stuff to wet raised roots. Compared to out 26" hardtail, there is more grip, a smoother ride, with the added benefit of the tire getting over stuff less abruptly.

Speed wise, on the technical singletrack trail, this bike is every bit as fast. Sections or features that caused the 26" to scrape or not ride clean have been ridden almost easily by the Fandango. This is a trail we have ridden 100's of times and have the lines, and features committed to memory. The ground clearance and larger tires proved their worth. We have even ridden our ECDM a bunch of times on this same trail. Comparing the Fandango to the ECDM lets the more rooty sections be smoothed by the ECDM, but the larger roots, or logpiles at these speeds let the Fandango easily roll over them. The open sections, which are almost always soft sand, give the nod to the 29'r. Like any hardtail, if we had to ride this same stuff for any hours straight, the suspension would let the stoker stay fresh longer. Initially, I had concerns about the Fandango front tire not holding traction as long as I preferred. After a followup ride on the ECDM, the steering traits for when they loose grip is very similar.

On the more open trails, both bikes, the ECDM and Fandango have been there. They both work very well. Again for the rougher stuff the ECDM smooths it, while the Fandango gets through more smoothly than our previous 26". You do feel some of the bumps, but it is a hardtail. The open sections, both firm and soft let the big wheels roll. Both bikes are fast. Our 26" hardtail got through fine also, but it is apparent to us that it was slightly slower.

So what to change next? I was looking for a seatpost shim in the spares for the Co-Mo today and found the CO-Mo original XT cassette, 11/34. So with luck, we can try some lower gears and hopefully not fold the cassette. Captains saddle will be tilted a bit more nose down, and the stokers hand position is heading up about 3/4 inch or so. I still plan to try a different front tire, 

So kind of a short review with something to compare to. I don't want this to sound all gushy about the Fandango, it is however a very capable platform. We still have no fault with the 98 MT3000 Cannondale, it's a very good bike. Our ECDM, which we have not had long, is also a great ride. The Fandango is right there too. If anything they are all great bikes, with each having little niches they do better than the others.

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> I so badly want something like that. I have a set of Turbine tandem cranks and a Rohloff just laying here.... tempting to say the least.


You're a bicycle dealer? I can help with that...


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

TandemNut said:


> You're a bicycle dealer? I can help with that...


Yes sir. I may call you next week. I need to borrow a tandem up here to try with my wife first. She is not opposed to the idea, but she is not an experianced rider and is a bit hesitant. Honestly I've not ridden a tandem for any kind of distance, but this seems like a heck of a way to work together while riding. I think a friend said it bes when he told me the other day that he has never arrived anywhere before his wife while riding their tandem. That's basically what I'm hoping to look forward to.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Today we took the Fandango to Camp Murphy trails at Jonathon Dickenson State Park.

https://www.clubscrub.org/

https://www.clubscrub.org/images/jd_map_new_names_12-8-08.jpg

The weather was hot but there had been some rain yesterday that helped firm the trails a bit. This entire trail is sand, with a few sections of palmetto roots, some short sections of wooden slats to minimize erosion, and the typical trail learning stumps and roots common on almost any trail. Additionally, this place has logovers ranging from no problem to get off and walk. We rode what we could, walked others and scraped on some. Today there were also several fallen trees that required dismounts and carry the bike over.

We got there later than we wanted, hitting the trail around 10:45.

The trail is ridden counterclockwise, and today we rode all except the root section of Osprey, and Bunker Hill freeride section which we never ride. So we put in approx 8.2 miles.

We had ridden our previous 26" hardtail here a few weeks ago, so we had some idea of comparison.

As the ride began, it became immediately obvious that we had brought a gun to a gun fight. The softer terrain would have caused the 26" wheels to sink and riders to work more, where as the 29" handled the sand and flowing terrain easily. This bike easily climbed sections that gave the 26" bike fits. The downhills, unless improved with wooden slats require you to pedal down them. The Fandango tracked straight in sections that would have caused the 26" to waiver back and forth. The palmetto root sections, some which we had never ridden before without a "dab" on the 26", we conquered with no "dabs" on our first try.

The entire day was not perfect though. For some reason after a longer steep sandy climb, we got chainsuck on the downhill side. The pedals locked. I was able to pull the chain out, but not without some missing powdercoat and a bent front large chainring. Being a 2x9 this had us finish in the small front chainring. No big deal but made for some good comparisons of the gearing between large and small.

We continued on, riding all palmetto sections clean except one where I stuffed the front wheel in a bush. The remaining sandy climbs were not a problem in the smaller front ring. These root sections and climbs were always misery on the old hardtail, never ridden clean and heart rates headed towards 100% on the climbs. Not the case on this Fandango. We had more for the climbs, but the soft sand wouldn't hold the tire. The bike never sank in the soft terrain, and launched to the top with little effort.

As we were about finished with our lap in this sauna of a trail, some of the stokers comments were "are we at the end already", "this is an excellent bike for this trail", but most important, she commented that she was tired but easily had enough left to do another lap. This would have never happened on the 26" hardtail.

Also, when we ride, if she is able to talk, I know her asthma is not acting up. As we discussed trail features and how the bike was working for her, not once did I notice any shortness of breath for her.

This trail which flows more typically of others we have ridden on the east coast let the Fandango 29r far exceed our expectations and easily outperformed our 26" hardtail. Our 26" bike took a long time to dial in and get set up for us. It worked very well. The fits and ergos were carried over to the Fandango, letting us know this bike works that much better.

Jeanne and I have decided that this will be our race bike for the few events we enter. I am trying to talk her into this one. Last year on the 26" was definite no. With a couple rides on the Fandango, she said tell me more about this race.

https://www.singletracksamurai.com/p/cross-florida-inidvidual-time-trail.html#let-int

Next we need to make a road trip to know how much better this machine is on flowing trails like Santos, I'm suspecting Co-Mo performance with dirty tires.

https://omba.org/

https://www.omba.org/images/stories/Maps/spider2b.pdf

Things that were changed between last ride and this ride&#8230;
Replaced stoker bars, installed risers to raise them about 30mm (this proved big for her)
Tilted Captains saddle nose down slightly
Worked on the ATC fork, adding rigidity while making it have no notchy feeling as it compressed and extended.
Increased fork travel without adding length.

Things to work on&#8230;
Better front tire. 
Getting the front drive chainring issue 100% reliable. Shouldn't be too bad. Surly SS chainring.
Front BashGuard
Glideplate for the frame.
Convert fork to air spring with external adjusters.
Get bike weight sub 40 pounds - ready to ride.

I'd love to see or hear more about what others are or have done with theirs, that's why I started this thread. I know it sounds like a commercial, but if I was on the fence deciding, and we were up until a test ride at AORTA, I would want some honest feedback to help decide. Had we not test ridden one back to back with our 26" hardtail, I doubt we would have followed through on a Fandango.

We are convinced this bike will see a lot of miles, it's that good. 
Fast, predictable and smooth.

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Paul,

Since I have a vested interest in the Fandango, I shouldn't be involved in this thread (which, of course, didn't keep me from posting about tires previously )

One of the great things about MTBR, and this forum in particular, is that folks can post real-world info that gives others who may be intersted in the products some insight on the real performance of the products. For off-road tandems, that's a huge service, since many potential customers can't actually see/ride one prior to buying it. 

From my standpoint as a dealer/product guy, I can tell you that detailed posts like yours are invaluable as a resource for product improvement and future design goals. 

As a consumer and enthusiast, I consider posts like yours as a great addition to, and balanced reality check of info presented by the manufacturer's brochures and websites, etc. 
In fact, your idea of a model-specific thread for each of the current off-road tandems available is a great one; that way owners can post their experiences and thoughts and prospective owners can get info and ask questions on whatever they may be looking at.

So I would like to THANK YOU! for your detailed posts and description of your progress through the creation and tuning of your Fandango.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Great info Paul and Alex. As a Fandango and Ventana owner its fun to read others experience and insights. Its also helpful in getting my tandem set up in the optimum configuration. Keep it comin" , both of you!
Ed Gifford
Toms River, NJ


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

It's been decided. My wife signed off on this bike as a worthwhile experiment for the two of us. As soon as I hear from Alex I'll have one on it's way. We'll go with a black large with the White 100T on his recommendation, and the bike will be set up with the Rohloff I have. Should be a really nice set up. Not bad for a starter bike. I hope it will work out as well as I think it could.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> It's been decided. My wife signed off on this bike as a worthwhile experiment for the two of us. As soon as I hear from Alex I'll have one on it's way. We'll go with a black large with the White 100T on his recommendation, and the bike will be set up with the Rohloff I have. Should be a really nice set up. Not bad for a starter bike. I hope it will work out as well as I think it could.


A great choice. You should enjoy many happy miles on a great machine. The Rohloff will make the build clean, and opens many options for driveline components.

Don't forget to take care of the girl that said yes, buy her a Thudbuster LT compliment those easy rolling wheels.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

For the drive train I'll use the set of Isis Turbines that I have already. We aren't planning anything other than gravel for true offroad use at first, so I'll run three 38t Shimano tandem rings I have for timing and drive gear through a 16t Rohloff cog. I'll use a Rohloff DH chain tensioner as I have one around already. 

I do have a Thudbuster for my wife, and I'll set it up with her preferred model of Saddle from Brooks. Bars will be Jones J bars front and back, as we both prefer large sweep bars on our singles. I will build the wheels with Salsa Gordo rims as I have them already. I will relace to MTX's if we have any issues with them. My Rohloff is leaking more oil than it should, so while waiting on the fork and frame I will be sending it in to be serviced and have the seals looked at. Hopefully it should all come together in about three weeks time.


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

I don't suppose anyone could measure the wheelbase axle to axle of the Large sized bike for me? I'm working on making a rack for transport options and it would help me greatly to start before I get the bike. Thanks.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> I don't suppose anyone could measure the wheelbase axle to axle of the Large sized bike for me? I'm working on making a rack for transport options and it would help me greatly to start before I get the bike. Thanks.


Ours measures 71" with the ATC fork.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Thank you sir.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

FWIW, if you get a Fandango, it has a lot of mechanical grip. Buy strong chainrings that don't bend under the power, especially when climbing. 

I hoped to have our new Surly Stainless chainring but it didn't make it for this weekend. So the bike will sit idle for a few more days.

We really wanted to get in an epic type ride on it this weekend, it's that good of a machine.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Duly noted. I think five arm cranks inherently provide more chain ring support than the now standard 4 bolts. I have been wondering about ground clearance with the 38t rings I have, but they should be fine to start with. With a 110 bcd of the crank arms 34t is the smallest ring I can go, but that ring will have less space unsupported than a 32-34 4 bolt chain ring. I would recommend taking it a bit easy on the Surly ring to start with. Though I think they would wear better than an alloy ring, they have a reputation for being soft and folding under a lot of pressure. YMMV, but I've known friends to bend or torque them on SS high torque situations.


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## Team Breeze - Screamcycle (Jun 26, 2010)

*New Fandango 29r Slimecycle with it's skid plate*

Thought we'd also send in some picuture of our new toy....and it's ..... :drumroll: .... skid plate.!!! (Hopefully these pics show)
We have had our Slimecycle for less than two weeks and we have put 75 single track miles ons it in NJ and DE. We are still adjusting the bike to our specific needs and plan on doing a performance report after a few more miles and trails.

Check out the ECDM thread for pictures of our 2 year old Ventana aka the Screamcycle and it's well used skidplate!

Happy Trails,

Larry & Brenda (Team Breeze)
New Jersey


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Wow! Ya got that cleaned up quick
Ed


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Very nice sir! I love the color. My wife is very partial to blue. Makes me wonder...

How are you liking the Wolverines? I am debating between those and Weirwolfs for our upcoming build. 

Has anyone tried some of the newer FR type tires such as the Ardent 2.4's, or Dissent 2.5's in the WB fork of Fandango frame? I wonder about clearance for the next generation of actually big 29er tires.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Larry, very nice. Skid plate too.


Ours got abused today. 60 mile ride (6hrs 40 min rolling time / 9 mph average). Some doubletrack, no singletrack, grass sections, slow muddy sections, hub deep water, and few hundred feet of pushing through knee deep water. Without the grass sections (<3mph) and water slogging (<1mph) our planned 80 miles may have been accomplished, unfortunately we had to get back for my moms birthday party. 

Our woes with the 2x9 seem cured. Today the only trouble was slow leak front tire at around 30 miles in, 5 refills with the pump to get home.

It seems the 2x9 does not like pinned and ramped chainrings, or weak chainrings.

I received the Surly 36t x 104 4 bolt on Friday. Quickly installed it and we headed out Friday evening for a ride. Immediate chainsuck. Turned around and grabbed the ECDM and did our ride.

A ride can give you time to think about stuff...

I had remembered from installing Surly chainrings on other bikes that they mentioned on their website and instructions, how early production rings (up to fall 2007) were 2.3mm thick and could only handle an 8sp chain. Well it seems the part number for the later style 2.1mm thick chainrings is the same. As luck would have it, we got a 2.3mm chainring which was a no go for our 9sp setup. 

I was pretty irked and had no way of knowing if QBP even had thin chainrings. We have a call in to Surly, so I'll see what happens there.

In the meantime, I decided to go "Primitive Pete" (or Paul in this case). I used a 2" diameter abrasive disk on the 90 degree angle grinder I use for composite repairs, actually a few discs, followed by a 2" Scotchbrite wheel, and went to work thinning the teeth and the area just below the teeth. With some care, I was able to have a reduced thickness to 2.0mm around the entire chainring. By not working the mounting bolt section, no runout was introduced.

Installed the chainring and 60 miles later, through water, mud, grass, sand, shellrock, it never skipped a beat. Sometimes it's just nice to have a little luck.

Hot and sauna like ride. Other than a slow leak in the front, this bike rocks. We bought and built this Fandango 29r with these epic type rides in mind. It easily delivers, and now without the chainsuck, which is a problem I accidentally built in, the bike far exceeded our expectations.

This much distance in one day off road will let you find out some more little things. Well I've complained about the front tire and now have a reason with the flat to swap it out. Also found that the cheapy Kalloy captains seatpost that was a carryover from the Cannondale MT800, does not have enough nose down adjustment. Close but not quite. We also found that the Kenda Nevegal 2.2's will fit in the frames seatstays and clear easily when dry. However there was a few times we heard the "buzz" of side knobs lightly touching the seat stays. We run 50 psi rear and this tire is pretty big on an MTX33 rim. So FWIW, run the big tires, just install a short strip of framesaver tape to protect the seat stay from the occasional "buzz". This is a no big deal thing, just a FWIW to protect your paint.

I know I'm repeating what others and I have said before. This bike finds traction. The few times the rear tire broke free, almost immediately it hooked back up with more grip. Unbelievable. We also did a short climb of 60' on a grass slope of about 40 degree angle. The bike climbed it easily with no tire slip at all.

White must also be a good color for repelling alligators, as none were to excited to be upset, also with all the snakes we saw, none were water moccasins, thank you man above.

PK


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## ashpioletrev (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks to the new edition to the family...a Fandango S/S! 
Build kit
Fandango 17/15 white 29'r
Thomson 410mm black post for the Captain
Rock Shock 250mm silver post for the Stoker
Truvativ Stylo Oct 1.1G crank&bb set with 32t x3
WTB Rocket V Ti rail
WTB Deva Pro 
Crank Bro SL pedals
Sram 951 chains x3
King hub front 20mm black
King hub rear 145mm black with 20t King Kog
King headset black
Groovy Luv Handles black (stoker cut to 22")
Salsa CroMoto stem front
Salsa S.U.L. rear
Geax 29x2.25 Fr&Rr
26"tubes
DT Swiss TK540 powder coated White
DT Swiss black spokes w/black nipps
Shimano Pro lock on grips white
Shimano Saint 4piston caliper
Shimano XTR levers with JagWire white hydro housing 
White Brothers T100 fork
Built all in Bend,Or for Bend and the surrounding area. This bike ROCKS! Handles as good as any bike I have had and I have a lot. Very sharp and precise. Stops on a dime and can make mince meat out of single track. We did Dutchman/Flagline/Whoops/Ben's to town and nothing but smiles,even on Whoops trail. Stokers first time down Whoops and she loved it. Can't rave enough about how well this rig slays it. Great job TanDumb nut for designing a superior bike and Props to my mechanic for the awesome build and of course to the Best Stoker a guy could ever have,even if you yell OH ****!SLOW DOWN PLEASE right in my ear. Just hang on Baby we can make it through anything together


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## ashpioletrev (Dec 6, 2005)

Oh yeah weighs in at 41lbs


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Nice...another variation on the Fandango theme.

I was hoping to get ours under 40lbs with some attention to detail. Yours is built pretty light and SS meaning our large with gears will be even tougher to hit the sub 40 mark.

One thing that did catch my eye, you listed 26" tubes. Are they superlights with Slime to make them near tubeless in heft and performance?

I have a non stoker stem from Salsa on order, can you take a close up of which one you used?

Looks great, the white is sharp. At least we think so.

JK & PK


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Where's the "Like" button? This thread is awesome.


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## ashpioletrev (Dec 6, 2005)

Thanks PMK. The tubes on both of my 29'rs are 26" they have always fit so why go with the extra weight. Not that weight was a huge concern on this rig but on the other S/S it was and I know they fit. The stem is a Moto Ace 105deg 130mm long 31.8 with a shim for 25.4. So far so good. Have about 75miles on it with only minor adjustments seat height and stem swap. The height for the front was a bit high so I lowered the top crown 1" and flipped the CroMoto stem upside down to bring me closer the my rigid Engin's axle to bar.


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## ashpioletrev (Dec 6, 2005)

here is the stem PMK


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## Team Breeze - Screamcycle (Jun 26, 2010)

benwitt11 said:


> Very nice sir! I love the color. My wife is very partial to blue. Makes me wonder...
> 
> How are you liking the Wolverines? I am debating between those and Weirwolfs for our upcoming build.
> 
> Has anyone tried some of the newer FR type tires such as the Ardent 2.4's, or Dissent 2.5's in the WB fork of Fandango frame? I wonder about clearance for the next generation of actually big 29er tires.


I've only used the Wolverines so far on hard pack and loose gravel over hard pack and they had plenty of traction. I particularly like the edge knobs that I think held the bike on the off-camber trails preventing a slide out. Tire clearance is kinda close measuring in at about 1/4 inch on each side of the seat stays.

Larry


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## Team Breeze - Screamcycle (Jun 26, 2010)

PMK said:


> Larry, very nice. Skid plate too.
> 
> So FWIW, run the big tires, just install a short strip of framesaver tape to protect the seat stay from the occasional "buzz". This is a no big deal thing, just a FWIW to protect your paint.
> 
> PK


Thanks!
And great idea on the frame saver tape....mine's kinda close too.

Larry


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Team Breeze - Screamcycle said:


> Thanks!
> And great idea on the frame saver tape....mine's kinda close too.
> 
> Larry


I've had bikes that were much tighter than this Fandango, as I said, more FWIW if you run these big tires.

We have a lot of grip so far. Our tire / handling problem is the front Nevegal is not stating on top of the sand. This is not a handling or turning problem, rather the tire just sinks in, wags twice and stops. The tire seems too rounded, or maybe it's the low rolling resistance tapered leading edge. From day one I deliberately installed our rear Nevegal opposite the direction arrow.

Tonight while fixing the flat, I took a look at the other tires on loan to me. The WTB's look good, but not for sandy conditions. I mounted the Kenda Klaw xt, but it was really narrow. So the Nevegal went on reversed.

Sometimes our conditions with sand have you try different things, flipping a tire is just one of them.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ashpioletrev said:


> here is the stem PMK


Thanks

Same or similar to where ours will end up.

Any chance you might go back and edit the photo size? Still works great, just tough to follow when you are reading.

Great looking ride.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Thanks for the tire fit info guys. White Brothers in the past have not been know for great tire clearance around the fork arch, and short stay 29ers have had issues for years fitting big tires. I'm just trying to plan ahead for what tires to run. 

Your bikes look awesome by the way, we can't wait to get ours. 

On the issues with your tires sinking and washing PMK, look at a 2.4" Maxxis Ardent for up front. They are bigger casing wise than the Nevegals you are riding, and and corner/float much better. They are a much more voluminous tire, though and I would think that would be helpful in sandy soft conditions. They also rool much better than their weight and intended use would suggest. The Bontrager XDX 2.1" is also an excellent tire for normal XC conditions. You'd give up a bit of cornering traction over the Neve, but it would roll and float noticeably better. The Panaracer Rampage is a very similar tire to the Nevegal but rolls better, is lighter, and corners better in those types of conditions. It's a little larger volume wise, and is less "round" compared to the Neve.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> Thanks for the tire fit info guys.


This was one of the reasons for starting this topic. I know these bikes are dear to Alex, possibly like they are just on loan to us, but it's becoming apparent that there are a few variations on the builds. This is not a topic of my bike is better or cost more, it's about the little and big things to let us enjoy the bikes beyond our current levels of satisfaction. I've got some PM photos of other bikes and know of a few more that should get posted here. Don't be shy, sometimes the little differences can make a huge difference for another team. Of course, if you need to keep a racers edge, that's fine too.



benwitt11 said:


> White Brothers in the past have not been know for great tire clearance around the fork arch, and short stay 29ers have had issues for years fitting big tires. I'm just trying to plan ahead for what tires to run.


We are not running any WB stuff currently, so best I can say is "talk amongst yourselves"



benwitt11 said:


> Your bikes look awesome by the way, we can't wait to get ours.


I'm anticipating to see even more...Yes ours is white, as is that BA single speed and there are some red ones, black ones, and snotty ones, how about orange, blue, my least fav Electric Super Dust, or any thing else. And where are the 26" bikes, this is not a 29r only topic. Show us the goods. I've asked before, are there any photos of the leadville podium bikes / teams? Any other Fandango race bikes?



benwitt11 said:


> On the issues with your tires sinking and washing PMK, look at a 2.4" Maxxis Ardent for up front. They are bigger casing wise than the Nevegals you are riding, and and corner/float much better. They are a much more voluminous tire, though and I would think that would be helpful in sandy soft conditions. They also rool much better than their weight and intended use would suggest. The Bontrager XDX 2.1" is also an excellent tire for normal XC conditions. You'd give up a bit of cornering traction over the Neve, but it would roll and float noticeably better. The Panaracer Rampage is a very similar tire to the Nevegal but rolls better, is lighter, and corners better in those types of conditions. It's a little larger volume wise, and is less "round" compared to the Neve.


I'm listening and testing...tonight was the first test with the front Nevegal turning opposite the direction arrow, and no we didn't roll backwards down a hill we couldn't climb, this is a Fandango 29r, they have a magical invisible cable that pulls you to the top of every climb, almost anyway.

I don't have the Maxxis or Bontragers to test. I do have a pair of Rampages and will give those serious thought, at least on the front based on the flatter tread profile which is already proven to work well in sand and is not to bad on hardpack.

Thanks
PK


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## Enel (Mar 23, 2004)

PMK said:


> I don't have the Maxxis or Bontragers to test. I do have a pair of Rampages and will give those serious thought, at least on the front based on the flatter tread profile which is already proven to work well in sand and is not to bad on hardpack.
> 
> Thanks
> PK


Bontrager FR3s are my favorite right now and I have been through a lot of Nevegals and Rampages. Thick burly sidewalls, huge, sticky cornering knobs, more volume if you want that. We tend to kill the first two tires with sidewall tears out here. Very square profile.

I have been favorably impressed with Specialized Captain Control 2bliss casing as well. It is narrower, but sticky and beefy sidewall. The Speshy Purgatory 2.4 appears bigger and more burly, but I have not tried it yet


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

We're working to get our Fandango dialed in for an upcoming event. This is one of those you must be crazy type events so I'm asking for any thoughts we may try in our setup.

The race is about 180 miles long, starts on a Saturday @ 6am or thereabouts, and has a 32 hour limit.

No sags, no outside support. We are able to buy items at stores and if we need to sleep along the trail or where we want.

Those that ride Leadville or Trans Rockies, or even ride stuff like this on a single, we'll listen and evaluate.

The bike is getting close, 2x9 is working well, Brakes have bedded in. ATC fork is ok, but needs to be lighter. Still sorting tires and will bring extras to the start in case it rains.

Light will hopefully be our Tri Newt, if we get it back from repairs. Planning to borrow a second light as a backup or for technical terrain sections. 

GPS is a Garmin etrex Vista HCx, in a Ram cradle, on a handmade carbon fibre mount, perched on the top of the stem.

I plan to contact a semi local rider about making two custom fit frame bags to carry spares, tools, GPS batteries, food, clothes and other stuff. This will have us carry water in camelbacks for hopefully only the first 100 miles. After that the watering holes are closer, and we may work it with just bottles.

Some other stuff we aren't sure about, first aid / snake kit, water filtration since we will be filling from natural springs.

One rule is a map is required, I'm even considering bringing may other etrex as a spare.

I guess the bottom line is we are trying to unload our backs, and place as much as possible low on the frame.

Thanks 
JK &PK


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## CrashCanipe (Jan 12, 2004)

PMK,

You should reach out to Mike Curiak (MikeSee) on the 29er board. Do a google search on him and you will see his resume is unbelievable and can offer great advice on how to pack a bike for a trip/race like this.

As for tires, it depends on the terrain. On a smooth trail like Leadville given the weight of a tandem, the lightest I would go would be something like a Maxxis Crossmark. I love the Maxxis Aspen but I think it would be too lightweight. The Crossmark rolls very well with decent strength sidewalls. I will often run an Ignitor up front with the Crossmark on the rear. If you need something beefier, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rolls well for its size. I also love the Panaracer Rampage if traction and strength are a concern.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

CrashCanipe said:


> PMK,
> As for tires, it depends on the terrain. On a smooth trail like Leadville given the weight of a tandem, the lightest I would go would be something like a Maxxis Crossmark. I love the Maxxis Aspen but I think it would be too lightweight. The Crossmark rolls very well with decent strength sidewalls. I will often run an Ignitor up front with the Crossmark on the rear. If you need something beefier, the Maxxis Ardent 2.4 rolls well for its size. I also love the Panaracer Rampage if traction and strength are a concern.


I swapped over to Rampages today. Curious to hear your thoughts on the Rampages in regards to how well they roll on both soft terrain and hardpack, plus pavement if you have ridden on that also.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Build specs / Changes from original build shown in red
Fandango 29'r size large
ATC fork (fork freed up, dust boots removed, steering stops changed to Headshok Moto foam units)
Shifters XO
Rear Der XO long
Front Der Shimano SLX 667 made for 2x9 (22/36)
Timing rings Shimano Tandem 32t
Cranks Shimano LX 175mm both positions (Hollowtech II)
Drive chainrings 22/36 Shimano (36 is now a modified Surly Stainless 36t)
BB's LX
Chains SRAM 850 timing, 991 rear
Cassette, Shimano LX 11/32 (XT 11/34)
Brakes Avid BB7
Rims, Sun MTX 33
Hubs, rear DT Swiss 540 tandem, 40 hole 145mm with 6 bolt is, front DT Swiss 440 36 hole
Spokes, DT Swiss Alpine III, 13/15/14 with brass nipples, black
Discs 203 mm cleansweep front, roundagon rear
Bars Easton EA50 25.4, flat, 5 degree, both positions (stoker bars swapped to mid rise, but swapped back to flat bar, undecided but seems we need a different stoker stem or a low rise bar)
Stem, Thomson 100mm, 25.4, 15 degree (swapped to stem down, all spacers under stem, basically the equal to a 0 degree rise stem, I will buy a zero rise stem when I return this loaner to its owner)
Stoker stem, Coda, 25.4, trimmed to allow further forward adjustment
Captain seatpost, Kalloy (swapped to Thomson, 27.2 x410 long in black, Kalloy was difficult to set being single bolt, and it slipped going nose high on our climbing training rides during a fast decent)
Stoker seatpost, Thudbuster LT with dust boot
Captain saddle, Terry Fly ti
Stoker saddle, Terry Butterfly ti
Tires, Kenda Nevegal 29 x 2.2 (tested with Nevegals rear opposite direction arrow, very good forward grip in soft terrain, front going with direction arrow was horrible in soft terrain, flipped front opposite direction arrow and much better, swapped to Panaracer Rampages, each end installed per arrows, much better front tire in soft terrain, rear seems similar to Nevegal. Definately a lighter tire.)
Tubes, Pyramid (swapped to Slimes)

PK


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

I'm not sure how far off this race is, but personally anything within 4 weeks and having never done this before I'd be more worried about the essentials of surviving it. Get the bike in good order (it seems like you're there already) and pack any spare parts you think you may need.

I'd be more anxious to sort the details of your personal water/food consumption needs over that distance and time interval. On the low end you finish averaging less than 6mph (this seems rather slow but I don't know the course) and need rations for 32hrs including provisions for an overnight. Middle of the road you ride 10mph+/- and finish in 18hrs, basically one long days ride. Then there will be some racers who can do 16mph+ and finish the first day by dinner time.
Where do you think you fall? How long do you honestly think you'll be out there? You can "refuel" at a store but where are they in relation to distance on the course and your expected travel time? Pack heavy in the beginning to make it there, or pack light off the line because the store is close? Will the stores be open when you pass by and need them? Where are the springs? How much on-board H2O capacity do you need to have to bridge the gaps?

I could go on and on. My brother-in-law does multi week self supported backpacking in the US and abroad. He and I have mailed ration packages to ranger stations so that he may pick up en route. He has both over estimated and underestimated his needs, leaving extras behind for others or surviving off the graces of others on the trail.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Last year I believe the fastest time was 25 hours, seeing a 9 mph average. This is total time, riding, resting, offshoots from the course to get supplies.

Time will tell where or if we finish.

The Fandango is getting sorted out for this type riding, and in my opinion is a good weapon of choice.

We bought it with true cross country rides as its intended purpose. I just asked if she wanted to do this race...

PK


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## CrashCanipe (Jan 12, 2004)

PMK said:


> I swapped over to Rampages today. Curious to hear your thoughts on the Rampages in regards to how well they roll on both soft terrain and hardpack, plus pavement if you have ridden on that also.
> 
> PK


The Rampages roll ok on pavement but they are definitely not what I would call fast (neither are the Ardents). They are terrific on soft terrain and roll well on hardpack. They are very predictable for me so I don't worry about washing out in the turns. They seem to have more of a rounded profile which helps.

Curious to see how they perform for you. They would seem perfect for a tandem to me.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

FWIW, the Panaracer Rampages have now rolled close to fifty miles. Soft sandy terrain, 4" or more grass, short grass, more compacted sand, hardpack shellrock roads, and some paved sections.

The tires are mounted per the direction arrows. The Rampages AND slime tubes wiegh less than the Nevegals and a regular standard tube.

The rear is almost the same feel, but lighter. The front works much better than the Nevegal on soft terrain.

On the dirt they are faster, on pavement they "sound" slower, but per the GPS are similar. 

We have a long riding weekend planned. Going to ride in some of the areas the race will be run. Planning to bring even more tires to test on the actual dirt and smooth sections. I want the rolling effort / performance trade off optimized. We have ridden sections of the race course over the years, so I know the dirt is slightly better than at home. However, usually the tires from here work very well.

The 2x9 is hanging in there. Having the 36t up front means that the front shifting is used often. So far with the modified Surly chainring, no pins or ramps the shifting performance has been pretty crisp. I've made a mental note to avoid big torque unless in the small front ring.

I had always questioned our pedaling terminal velocity with the 2x9, previously with Nevegals we never really could max it out, but did see a bit over 20 a couple times. Last night, we wanted to find with the Rampages, a comfortable paved section speed vs heart rate. That done, stoker wanted to try all in on the gearing. The 36/11 saw us hit 25mph for a short bit, but as we know these tires (any true knobby) are not easy to turn at those speeds.

As for the rest of the bike and frame, this will sound odd to read, but is a good thing. We don't notice it beneath us. Let me explain...When something works well, does nothing bad or wrong, delivers the goods, and the comfort level both in ride quality and riders confidence to do stupid (we can ride that) is there, the bike goes unnoticed.

The times we do notice it, are when we stop at a store or small shop for a snack or drink, as it just leans against a wall without a complaint.

Good job Alex, great bike. We were figuring it has over 300 miles on it so far. No bike computer, just when we write stuff down in a log, and if not working for something we forget to write.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Help on 29r tire info it need it.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0ApcNMgTrSzkTcmpCbmF5Y0Q0cmd6VGdTN0JsUWotQnc&hl=en#gid=0

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

We have a set of the 29'er Rampages on our ECDM. They seem to work well, but they are the loudest bicycle tire (on pavement) I've had in recent memory. Oh well, they'll keep you awake during the long smooth sections!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> We have a set of the 29'er Rampages on our ECDM. They seem to work well, but they are the loudest bicycle tire (on pavement) I've had in recent memory. Oh well, they'll keep you awake during the long smooth sections!


Being loud, I immediately preconceived they were slow.

On hardpack road sections they are pretty fast.

I could also try going up a couple PSI, currently 45 ft / 50 rr.

PK


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## CrashCanipe (Jan 12, 2004)

This is going to sound ludicrous but have you tried setting up tubeless? I bring this up because that is all I run on my single bike (29ers) but haven't tried it on the tandem 26er.

You can get the best of both worlds in terms of traction and rolling resistance. I normally run the Rampages at 25psi in the front and 27psi in the rear. I use to be in the camp of always running 40+ psi but am sold on tubeless and lower pressure. Plus, I never worry about thorns or small punctures because they re-seal.
Thoughts?


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

I would really stay away from tubeless on a Fandango, (maybe it's possible safely on a 26" UST rim with a true UST downhill tire,) especially with loose fitting, non tubeless 29er tires. I've had issues with customers single bikes set up ghetto tubeless when they are over 220lbs. Even with true tubeless rims and tires, single riders I know in the 265lb range burp tires at normal pressure and have tires slip in the rim. I can't imagine what 400lbs of rider and gear and twice the torque would do to that tire/rim interface. Seems inherently dangerous from my experience.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

When building the bike, I contacted Stans about their rims and pressures we could run. At the pressures we run they said no way it blow off the rim.

I've tested other folks bikes with lower pressure settings, and have adjusted ours within a window of pressure I find good in regards to sidewall flex, mechanical grip, and the ability of not hitting the rim.

Maybe later in the year I'll play with the idea more, but for now I plan to stay with Slime tubes and the best tires based on testing what we have.

PK


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## CrashCanipe (Jan 12, 2004)

I hear you. I've never set up my 26" tandem with tubeless but have been getting more and more comfortable with it on my 29er singles. Maybe try just the rear tire to start out would be the way to go. Set it up and run in the low 30s in terms of pressure. I wouldn't try it on the front until I was completely sure since the penalty for failure is so great. 

My wife and I test rode Larry & Brenda (Team Breeze) Fandango 29er last weekend. My guess is if we can get Sherwood to build a full suspension 29er (I hear he is doing it now), we may end up making a purchase. I'm totally in love with the 29er concept. Have thought about converting my EDCM to a 69er with a 29" front end but my guess is it would finagle up the geometry.

Can't wait to hear more about how your tires work and other changes you make with the Fandango.
Barry


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## Enel (Mar 23, 2004)

PMK said:


> When building the bike, I contacted Stans about their rims and pressures we could run. At the pressures we run they said no way it blow off the rim.


I have ridden 29" wheels exclusively for 6 years, mostly tubeless. I have burped many a tire on a Stan's rim on my single. I have not blown them off the rim luckily.

I personally would never trust any 29" rim tubeless in a tandem application.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

CrashCanipe said:


> My wife and I test rode Larry & Brenda (Team Breeze) Fandango 29er last weekend. My guess is if we can get Sherwood to build a full suspension 29er (I hear he is doing it now), we may end up making a purchase. I'm totally in love with the 29er concept. Have thought about converting my EDCM to a 69er with a 29" front end but my guess is it would finagle up the geometry.
> 
> Can't wait to hear more about how your tires work and other changes you make with the Fandango.
> Barry


We don't own nor have we ridden a 29r suspension tandem. Maybe they are great, maybe not. I would suspect a lot has to do with the terrain you ride.

Join the club, keep that ECDM 26r, and get yourself a Fandango.

I started this topic expecting more folks to discuss their Fandangos, what works for them, doesn't work and just let the rest of the world get a glimpse. Of the few so far, I don't recall any with unhappy owners.

Other than the recently posted 29r ECDM on DF, I don't recall any real topics or discussions about them. The owner of the 29r ECDM posted some photos of his great looking bike / build. He also included some photos of what he rides for terrain. If they are typical of the areas, maybe you could base some decisions of his posts. I know for a fact that singletrack where we ride is no where that smooth or open and flowing. Possibly perfect 29r country.

BTW, CrashCanipe, get that camera out and show us the goods of your ECDM in that topic.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Alex, I'm requesting the bikes sold in Florida come with a two person life raft and life jackets.

Our poor Fandango has now seen more hours ridden in torrential rain than possibly all our other bikes combined.

Another 70 plus miles with 50+ on Sunday in heavy rains and short sections of hot sunshine, followed by around 22 today in nice weather.

Dirt at Santos is more firm than home stuff. Still much is sand, but is 99.9% packed sand, some pine needles, and even some shellrock.

Did the entire weekend on Rampage tires. Seemed pretty good overall.

We did finally find a hill that would not hold the rear tire and has us push it up the last few feet. Somehow we spun the tire and just stopped.

Open flowing singletrack, very comfortable at 13 to 15 for miles, some sections were sub 5 mile per hour and the bike didn't care.

Twice we had the timing chain come off, both were from debris derail it. and one bad chainsuck in the small chainring this time. Not sure why, but I'm thinking it's time for an anti suck device / frame guard.

I'm pretty certain Monica and Chris have some Fandango 29r miles there, be nice to hear their take.

If anyone plans a trip to Florida and wants a nice tandem friendly trail, with very little climbing but loads of fun, it might make a nice winter getaway ride. BTW, the red (difficult) trails or the Vortex section offers plenty of hard core technical stuff if you get bored on the yellows (easiest) or Blues (intermediate).

https://www.omba.org/images/stories/Maps/spider2b.gif

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Finally a ride with no rain.

75 miles of exploring and riding. 

Left from the house, and had 2 miles max of paved stuff.

Since we live in a less remote area, our normal day will see alligators and snakes. Today though, lot of wildlife, bunch of gators in the water, one up on the road sunning himself and he got PO'd when I decided he needed to go back in the water. Bunch of deer, a bobcat, all sorts of birds, only one snake, rabbits, and so on.

Bike worked great, still get an occasional chainsuck. Ordered a different front chainring, hopefully strong enough and will stop the chainsuck issue. Probably make a chainsuck device. Obviously this is not a frame or bike problem, rather some combination of the sand, chainlube, and thin SS front chainring letting the bolt heads latch onto the chain in some shifts.

ATC fork is very good with the latest mod for better lubrication. Rampage tires are getting the job done.

Waiting on framebags, some lighting parts, and new light mounts to get in our first night ride / test ride for the night portion of the upcoming race.

The ride today was perfect for the bike, the terrain had great flow and sections to let the big wheels work best. Some portions of our ride had this thing on an EZ cruise control at 15mph in the dirt, on the flats.

PK


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

PMK said:


> Bike worked great, still get an occasional chainsuck. Ordered a different front chainring, hopefully strong enough and will stop the chainsuck issue. Probably make a chainsuck device. Obviously this is not a frame or bike problem, rather some combination of the sand, chainlube, and thin SS front chainring letting the bolt heads latch onto the chain in some shifts.
> 
> PK


You think it has to do with the alternating direction bolts? One direction protrudes more than the other? Have you noticed that your cranks are typically in a specific position when it gets thrown?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

bme107 said:


> You think it has to do with the alternating direction bolts? One direction protrudes more than the other? Have you noticed that your cranks are typically in a specific position when it gets thrown?


Not believing it's the orientation of the bolts, but rather the bolts not being recessed into the chainring on the inner surface.

The SS chainrings are made from flat material and have just teeth cut on them, no recess for the bolt since many are used for single speeds.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Mine shipped out to me today. Here's a teaser shot of the build.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> Mine shipped out to me today. Here's a teaser shot of the build.


Not teasing me...we still got 4 more gears.

Seriously though just kidding, pretty certain you'll enjoy it even with that heavy overweight rear hub.

PK


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Yeah it's a bit heavier. I can live with that considering the efficient shifting, no chainsuck, stronger chains, dead straight chainlines, and the ability to shift while coasting. 

I love Rohloffs. I certainly use normal gear systems, as I can't justify 4 of these things, (yet...). This bike seems a perfect application for this hub, and I stumbled into this one for an unreal price. Seemed like a bit of real luck, though it did cause me to buy a tandem...


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

We have never used any of our bikes to just "head out" with no actual destination or specific trail to ride like we have this Fandango.

Our goal for the build was a XC type bike. It has turned into an "Adventure Machine" as we ride all sorts of places, many that most wouldn't even consider to ride.

Adding lights for the upcoming event has given the front bars a tactical weapons platform look. 

First the lights were setup in the side yard. After that, a couple hours use on nearby local trails to ensure the lights are viable for a 12 hour run.

The bar lights are a 175 Lumen specialty flashlight, supplemented with a modified MiniMag light kicking out 140 lumens. Depending upon terrain, I can select one or the other or both.

I also installed what I nicknamed the "Cruise Ship Light". This is another modified MiniMag lite kicking out 140 lumens. The difference being this light is mounted on the stokers bars and points downward and slightly aft allowing good visibility for foot/pedal clearance and inspection of the drivetrain at night for debris.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Some of the Adventure Machines travels


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

More Adventures

The good signs.

The South Florida trails the Fandango was made for.

The bad signs, and about the only thing that can stop a Fandango around here (Florida Trail Sign / No Bikes, No Horses, No Motor Vehicles, Foot Traffic Only)

Yes we have a lot of palm trees, but these aren't and this hammock kind of stuck out, probably some non native vine killing a native tree, but different

Sunset on the ride home, South Florida style


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

More Adventures

Pretty common to see these guys, most are 6 to 8 feet long, have seen them around 16 feet long and they are big. Real close and no telephoto or zoom. He watches us, we admire him. Photo was taken from a small bridge.

One of his unlucky brothers. Poached and had his tail cut off for the meat, and head cut off to be some ******** show of how tough they are to catch a gator on a huge hook, have it entangled itself, then shoot it while it can be almost no big threat. Seen tossed into a canal along a roadside during today's ride


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

*Our Fandango*

Here's a few pics of our setup. The bike is built around a Rohloff hub laced to MTX rims with Sapim butted spokes. The cranks are Race Face Turbines with Shimano tandem timing rings. The fork is a White Bros 100t and the headset is a Cane Creek 110. The saddles are Brooks B17, male and female respectively.

I just finished building the bike Friday, and we've had record breaking amounts of rain the last few days. We hope to ride it on some of the few dry trails on Monday. So far around town it's just awesome. I can't wait to get it on dirt.

A huge thanks to Alex for making this possible. It's a stunning bike and so far it's all I had hoped for!


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> I just finished building the bike Friday, and we've had record breaking amounts of rain the last few days. We hope to ride it on some of the few dry trails on Monday. So far around town it's just awesome. I can't wait to get it on dirt.


According to PMK, the Fandango actually floats pretty well. I say go for it  
Congrats on a great looking setup. Hope you get to ride many miles with it. Looking forward to your first ride report.
Thanks!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> According to PMK, the Fandango actually floats pretty well. I say go for it
> Congrats on a great looking setup. Hope you get to ride many miles with it. Looking forward to your first ride report.
> Thanks!


OK, well, I didn't mount that cruise ship light for looks.

BTW, that Rohloff 29r looks great, I'm certain it will roll many happy miles for its owners.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

I think the bike and us are about as ready as can be for our event. Maybe sometime next week we'll post about how things went.

180 miles, point to point, mostly off road and single track.

Some of the photos of the prepped bike. I upgraded to two high power lights in front, maybe we can go all night with minimal battery changes.

Frame bags are fitted and packed.

New stickers on the fork and boom tube by the stokers feet.

Here's a link of the spot tracker.

http://www.trackleaders.com/cfitt

Not too many crazy folks doing this. We are the only tandem, and expect to be lucky to finish.

PK


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Paul and Jeanne,
Wow the Fandango looks Bad to the Bone!! Love the eagle/flag stickers and the name tags.We wish you the best of all things and luck(everyone needs a little) in this endeavor. Hope you post up how you make out with the lights. Know there will be a team in Toms River, NJ rootin' for youse guys!!!!!!!!
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

We wish you 180 miles of rubber side down, good weather and otherwise uneventful riding. Go crush it!!!!

Very interested to hear how it all goes. Also - I like the frame bags, custom or off the shelf?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

FWIW, not sure why the tracker still thinks we're out there but we aren't. We finished about, 8:10 am this morning.

So total time of just a few minutes over 24 hours.

Uneventful, not quite.

At about mile 55, the Lake Eaton photo spots, on boardwalk 2, I attempted to roll over a stick and the front wheel slide on the 2x6 wooden boardwalk. This stuffed my left elbow into the ribs, breaking or cracking at least one. So about 120 miles with this small ailment.

We rode decent making the Santos Landbridge trailhead before dark. This let us put the helmet lights on, but forced us to ride a few hours of the most technical portions, in the dark. Oh well.

As the night wore on, it cooled off a lot for us. After the singletrack previously mentioned, we got food and rested at the Walmart. This was a long stop.

As we continued, it became more difficult for Jeanne to contend with the cold and obviously being so tired.

When we reached the caboose, it was to cold for her to continue, plus her being so tired we hung out in a bathroom to warm up.

The next leg was the final one with a long paved stretch. Total darkness with heavy fog. As this paved stretch ended, we reentered singletrack, to the finish. This was about our best timed moment, we hit the singletrack at dawn. 

Overall, the course had us start on paved roads on account of a trail closure for a controlled burn. This blended into dirt roads, that quickly turned to super soft sand with the sides of the trail lined with sticky burrs. Everyone had to push through the sand washes. This, eventually turned into forest roads. A quick stop at Silver Glenn for the mandatory photo of each rider in the water swimming, also let us get water and food. Back onto course again, had us ride mile after mile of forest service road, rolling and climbing. This went on for what seemed like forever. After some short paved sections, we rode some mild singletrack, followed by road until the Santos singletrack. The next portion had us riding shellrock rock sections that blended into grassy sections. So in the early am, we were on grass sections with grass at times 5 feet tall, coupled with heavy fog. This finally ended with a short paved section and break at a 24 hr Citgo. At this point I really questioned if we should keep going. Jeanne, while very nausious, said we need to continue. Off we went, next up was some grass levies during early morning hours. This dumped us onto a paved section that took us to the Withlacochee Rails to Trails. Here we had to get warm and rested a while. We decided to head out around 5:30 to complete the last section. This was a super boring, flat road section in heavy fog. At this point fighting her lack of sleep, Jeanne started singing to her self, but so I could hear it, 99 bottles of beer on the wall, and oddly, she doesn't drink. As the sunbegan to light the morning sky, she came alive, and kept me going through the final tight slow sandy singletrack.

FWIW, from just after the Walmart section, we came upon the race promoter in the woods with a broken spoke. Karlos is super hardcore riding a fixing rigid. His woes were he had slipped out of the pedals and broke a rear spoke. After about 45 minutes, we were able to McGyver it and let him continue. We rode somewhat together from that point to the caboose.

Time to go see why the spot is still tracking and resolving this. But we have been finished all day, and then slept. No doubt this was one of, if not the most difficult thing we have ever done on a bike. A true mental challenge for us and physical also.

Later

Paul and Jeanne


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Nice work!

Congrats to you both on an amazing accomplishment! :thumbsup:


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ds2199 said:


> We wish you 180 miles of rubber side down, good weather and otherwise uneventful riding. Go crush it!!!!
> 
> Very interested to hear how it all goes. Also - I like the frame bags, custom or off the shelf?


The frame bags were custom made by one of the other racers. His first set of tandem bags, and to his surprise, they were pretty small compared to a regular frame.

They worked very well. Being a first set for a Fandango or tandem for that matter, we decided at the start of the race on Saturday morning (his first time seeing the bags fitted) that he will add two of the soft sided velcro strips for the upper bag mounts. He somehow thought the upper tube was larger in diameter. No big deal and a very easy tweek to make the bag even better. I also stiffened the bag near the timing chain with a flat carbon fibre panel I had laying around so the chain couldn't rub the bag.

Idealy, the upper bag will also fit our Co-Mo. It seems very close and will be a cool addition.

Yes we had more in there than we used, but the bags were great.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

This bike continues to be a workhorse. 

It doesn't get 100% of the rides, but still sees plenty of use.

After we did the race in October, this bike got a couple of weeks rest.

The Fandango has now entered a new line of duties. Previously, (last year) with darkness now sooner, our after work rides were always road rides on the Co-Motion. 

Not anymore...

Since building the bike up with the lights and frame bags, the Fandango is now a great get on and go ride machine. 

To explain, rather than fight all the road traffic at night, (South Florida from November to April has many bad drivers that don't like cold weather move here, aka Snowbirds), getting to areas where we can relax but ride hard, now we ride dirt instead of asphalt

Don't get me wrong, we still enjoy the road tandem, but with the race light setup, and upper frame bag only on the Fandango, this machine sits poised for action on a moments notice.

Learned from training for the race, we found some nice non technical off-road places to ride at night. Leaving from our house there is a few neighborhood streets and then a bike path to get to the dirt. Nothing crazy to ride, but rather miles of safe riding with the greatest fear being dogs.

Here's the neat thing though, previously on the road tandem, riding back to the house we might stop and eat dinner (nothing fancy), now we adjust our off-road night rides to put us near a food stop we want,eat , then continue home.

What really made the bike so good for this type stuff. Well first it is very good design for this type riding day or night, but having the frame bag preloaded with tube and pump, master links and spare batteries for the lights is great.

The other thing Jeanne and I are very happy with are the lights. The two tactical flashlights work great. Having two independent lights means you will get home with a light on. But most importantly, we do not run these on rechargeable batteries. It takes about a minute to find the spares, make the swap, and be rolling again.

I know it snows and limits riding for many of you, but if you live where you can ride off-road safely at night, try it on the tandem. Nothing stupid technical, just fun riding, it will open the next chapter.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

For those following, the 2x9 is still working pretty decent. Not perfect but decent.

The front still has the ability to shift from small to large too good.

I did make a bash guard looking chainring protector and installed it trying to prevent the chain from shifting beyond the larger ring. The idea will work, but the handmade ring was to thick at 2mm, and even if I used thinner material you don't gain much in regards to space between our Shimano LX crank arms and the timing ring.

So, I have headed down a new path. Still keeping the same drivetrain 2x9, I'm going to try and limit the chains outward travel not with a crank mounted disc, but rather a frame mounted guide.

I ordered a Pauls Chain Keeper, and even spoke with them prior to ordering.

http://www.paulcomp.com/ckclamp.html

And will see if this may work with some trimming of the inner edge of the guide.

Time will tell, and I'm not giving up on 2x9 yet. As is, it is not any different than shifting a regular 3x9 front. I just want it better.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

How does the stoker feel/fare with night riding? Does she have her own light(s)? Stoker's view is limited in the day - at night I'd wonder if they felt they were in a black box?


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

It took my stoker a few rides to adjust to night riding the tandem. I did hook her up with a light pointed backwards from her bars like Paul and Jeannies and she found that it helped even though she only turns it on occasionally. Now she does just fine.
Ed and Pat Gifford
The Snot Rocket
Toms River, NJ


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Depending upon the location and terrain will determine if additional lights are used.

For additional lights, we have been running hot rodded mini mag lights, two per helmet.

This is good for around 275 lumens with both lit, one alone is more than adequate for technical singletrack.

The stokers helmet light is a huge help in turns. She is able to look in that direction, adding light where needed.

In regards to the downward aimed "cruise ship" light, it plays a big part in allowing the stoker to see the drivetrain, and also her foot clearance on stumps and rocks.

For easy rides where we don't run any helmet lights, stoker often stuffs a hot rod mini-mag in my camelback with easy access. We run normally just the longer range bar mounted light, for slightly technical stuff we burn both bar lights. The cruise ship light will only be used when riding easy stuff, when passing through trail access openings in fences, or other simple things where her knee clearance may be a factor.

I would say my stoker does pretty good, but has occasional "what was that" moments. These are good for turbo boost and about a 5 mph sustained 2 minute burst.

Important safety tip, never look back when stokers helmet light is lit.

PK


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## eischman (Apr 5, 2005)

Where is the race? What kind of terrain? When? I would go as light as possible (gear/everything)


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

*night riding*

my .02 cents on night riding on the tandem.

We ride with 2 very good lights. One on my helmet and one on the handlebar. Spot beam on my helmet and flood bean on the bar. This combo is excellent! I have been meaning to get another light for my stoker. We ride various trails some not technical and some more so.

The lights we use are these. http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=57645&cat=27
I'll give huge props for these lights for several reasons:
1. they are light weight
2. they are small
3. they have 3 + hour run time with a lightweight battery (I bring an extra battery for longer rides)
4. they are locally made and the guy who makes them is engineer by day, bike rider/light manufacturer by night.

PS Don't let the lack of daylight keep you off the trail!!!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

*2 x 9 Right Side Drive*

We have got a bunch of miles on our Right Side Drive setup.

It's cool on account of crank selection, but has been at times problematic.

When we ride the bike in true xc fashion, with flowing trails, climbs, descents and typical situations the concerns are minimal.

The front shifting does not mind these types of terrain since most often you can be delicate with the shifting, similar to a single bike.

The problem of chain derailments, and subsequent binding into the chainrings and timing chain often occur during the more abrupt or when tired upshifts are made. Suffice to say we have wedged the chains pretty tight a few times. To the point of loosening chainring bolts.

Not ready to give up just yet, I designed and built what got nicknamed the Chunnel (chain tunnel). This was a chain keeper of sorts to hopefully prevent the drive chain from traveling too far outboard. We have a couple of rides now with it and it has worked so far.

So is all right side good or for everyone, yes and no. If you are a casual rider, you may never have a problem. If you desire to ride everything the single bikes do and push the equipment to do it, you may have problems.

We have a lot of miles on our right side drive setup, for now it stays, but suffice to say, before I got the Chunnel designed and built, I was ready to pull the cranks and go with tandem specific stuff.

So why will I leave the right side drive on, only if it becomes 99.9% trouble free.

Now the big question, what makes 2x9 work so good, the front can be made to shift like never before. If I do put on tandem cranks, the 2x9 will probably stay. The ability to run these crisp shifting front derailiuers is worth it for those needing fast solid shifts, and can afford to live with something around a 36/11 gearset on top.

I'll take a few more photos if needed, most were blurry, but these few should give you an idea of what I did.

FWIW, the mount plate and channel are all 7075 heat treated aluminum. The vertical mount plate is installed to replace the OEM Shimano "E"Type derailleur spacer. After some final fitting, and luck on the channel width to match the chain / chainring spacing, installation was easy. Had to trim the top surface slightly to clear the bottle.

PK


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

It's hard to tell in the photos, but how close is the outer cage of the FD to the 36 tooth chainring as it sweeps over it? It looks far, but it could be bad photo angles.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Blaster1200 said:


> It's hard to tell in the photos, but how close is the outer cage of the FD to the 36 tooth chainring as it sweeps over it? It looks far, but it could be bad photo angles.


It's within a couple of mm. Tough to see but detectable in the next to last photo. The problem is it shifts too good and tosses the chain beyond the 36t. Without a bashguard or big ring it overtravels into the timing chain.

Most times we would just adjust the der end limit screw, unfortunately with 145mm spacing the problem is worse than a 135mm bike. The der is also aligned parallel to the chainring surface.

So far, just the little chunnel is enough to act as a fixed mount limiter.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

The day after Christmas we got to take Team CLJ2289 on some of our local South Florida trails.

For both teams, us and them, it was very windy, and without doubt cold for us. They are much closer to the Mason Dixon line so they may be more adapted to the cold.

We had sent video (helmet cam) of one trail, Fort Pierce. We decided this would be something fun for all (or so I hoped since it was my recommendation).

First trail was Fort Pierce, a slower trail that flip flops and winds around, with roots stumps, short climbs and descents. Team CLJ put the Fandango 29r to the test. The team and machine both came away smiling. We have always ridden our ECDM there, preferring the rear suspension and smaller wheels for all the palmetto roots and side slips off roots. They christened the trail with its first Fandango. As mentioned they came away smiling and said they had fun.

Next we headed for Dyer in West Palm, this is our South Florida hill. It's not much, but gives us a place to climb. I will say, that having the ECDM for the Dyer hill is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. The ECDM will do fine, but having put in many miles of climbing on the Fandango 29r, we know how much rear grip these Fandangos have and just how well they climb. Obviously, our FS let us unload when pointed downhill, but that's just less time to rest.

My stoker and I both knew we would work for every foot we rolled. Team CLJ, hopped on the hill trail and without hesitation blasted it. We only caught and passed them on account of their kindness and apparently getting blown off the path. It was very windy in the open area and we too put some tire marks in the trails edges.

My stokers efforts had her enjoy her Subway lunch a little longer (I know TMI), so we hit the Dyer perimeter trail. This is fairly tight singletrack. While the ECDM does a great job on it, the Fandango is no slouch. We led a while, letting Team CLJ find their groove. Then we swapped and let them lead the remainder of the lap. Like old pros, they took on the challenges, testing their bike and skills, and doing it with awesome speed.

We all had a great time, (they said they did anyway), and we look forward to a Fandango trifecta at Tour de San Felasco in a couple of weeks.

Kind of nice to see another tandem ride where we do, but more importantly, to see how common it is for these Fandangos to consistently perform well with different teams. 

Thanks for the visit Team CLJ.

JK & PK


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

*Another new Fandango*

I finally got our new Fandango(29) built and out for a couple of rides. For context, we have a FS Ventana ECDM (26). We have put in excess of 3500 miles over the past 2 seasons on the ECDM. We have been very happy with the ECDM and its suspension. I was intrigued with the big wheel concept on the tandem and now we have it. I will say that the Fandango really rides well. More to come on performance as we log more miles (so far only a 15 mile and 30 mile ride).

Upon researching crank and bb options for the new Fandango, I decided to experiment with a right-side drive (following PMKs lead and the Salsa tandem project).

I will say that I had low expections on the front chainring configuration and thought that I may quickly revert back to a tradtional tandem crank & chainring set up. After yesterday's 30 mile rideI am now wondering if the 2x10 may actually work out as a long term set up. I don't want to jinx myself, but it shifted incredibly well, but time will tell.

Build Specs:
- Fandango 29 frame (small)
- LX cranks (capt'n & stoker)
- Sram XO shifters 
- Sram X9 rear
- Sram X9 front
- Fox fork (yeah I know, but we're a light team and well I just wanted a singlecrown fork - we'll see how it performs, White Bros is always a fallback option)
- XT cassette 11-36
- 22-36 chainriings (32t timing)
- Magura Louise brakes
- Velocity P35 rims laced to White Industries hubs
- WTB Weirwolf 2.55 tires (they are not as big as the 2.55 would imply)
- Ergon grips front & rear (I'm not sold on the bar ends configuration - but love the ergon grips with the flat hand position)
- Standard stuff on bars, stems & saddles

Here's a couple of pics from our ride yesterday (got out before a big snow storm today). No close ups of the bike and I'm not at home today...









My stoker with the bike on a trail called Stonehenge









I like this bike! I really like the big wheels. :thumbsup: 
It may be a while before we can get back out on the dirt (due to snow and trail condtions), but I want to ride all of our regular trails and compare to the EDCM.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

We love the red rims. Makes the whole tandem look fast(and sexy).We also are "snowed in" here in NJ. Haven't been on a trail or road in 2 weeks. Way too much time on the rollers and wind trainer.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

DS the bike and riding looks great.

FWIW, I'm pretty certain this was our last weekend / event on the Right Side Timing setup for us. We have rides where it works better than any triple setup, others when it's just temperamental and others it gives us fits. 

We have without doubt had more miles of good performance than bad, but when it goes bad it goes bad.

Tour de San Felasco was this past Saturday. We rode the 50 miles with Monica and Chris Judd. These two laid it down and were not to be denied beer for their efforts. Albeit their own homebrew. We also did a portion of the ride with Jennifer and Jamie on their new Fandango. Two great tandem teams and 4 great people. As they say, huge props to Monica as I tried to destroy her foot in a first turn pileup. Sorry Monica. 

Back to the driveline. Reason for it being the final straw is that the bumpy terrain along with the need to quickly drop to granny and then crest the hills and grab the larger ring tossed the chain a few times and wedged it tight.

Ultimately I tortured my stoker with mashing the climbs, except on sections I recalled from previous years, and with a lot of finesse gingerly made the shifts for these sections I knew were coming.

So with burning quads...and not for a lack of mechanical effort, I (we) decided to go conventional tandem setup.

The idea will work, and does work well in open terrain. We have proven that with well over 1000 miles of use. Unfortunately, we don't always ride these open areas and that's what caused the grief. You have a very good chance to get great results with the setup.

So consider us as Fandango Down until I find a Shimano Octalink BB for the stoker. Then we'll be going with Shimano cranks I kept (just in case). Need to find a New Old Stock BB since the one I need has been out of production for almost 10 years.

Ed and Pat, sorry to hear you aren't riding, I offer to you the ability to ship your bike here and get some mileage in South and Central Florida style.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

DS2199, which Fox fork did you use?

Is it a Fox 32 for the 29r or did you go with a Fox 36 and modify the fork brace?

PK


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

PMK said:


> DS2199, which Fox fork did you use?
> 
> Is it a Fox 32 for the 29r or did you go with a Fox 36 and modify the fork brace?
> 
> PK


Its the 32mm for 29er. My take on it is that we're pretty light and this bike will likely be used more XC than our ECDM, so I'm ok experimenting with this fork. I'll be curious to see if I find it to be flexy.

Still dreaming of the fork indudstry catching up and making a 36mm 29er fork... Could be another year or so.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi DS,
FWIW, I noticed from the pics that your stoker is using a white/grey elastomer combo on the thudbuster. Although she appears very tiny a friend of ours who purchased our Fandango 26er tried that combo and the white elastomer split down its length after a few rides. She is about 110lbs with camelback. Maybe carry the other white or grey one with you as it made for a precarious ride back for her. It happened on a very open and flowy trail, nothing with big drops or logs/roots. Just a thought.
Ed and Pat Gifford


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Paul and Jeannie,
Thanks for the offer. I'm hoping the weather gets better here real soon.(at least get rid of the snow cover) If not we may take you up on the offer. The pics of you guys with Monica and Chris look great. Jeannie has certainly lost a lot of weight and looks like a lean, mean peddlin' machine. Love the red, white and blue theme with the tandems.:thumbsup: 
Ed and Pat


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

giff07 said:


> Hi DS,
> FWIW, I noticed from the pics that your stoker is using a white/grey elastomer combo on the thudbuster. Although she appears very tiny a friend of ours who purchased our Fandango 26er tried that combo and the white elastomer split down its length after a few rides. She is about 110lbs with camelback. Maybe carry the other white or grey one with you as it made for a precarious ride back for her. It happened on a very open and flowy trail, nothing with big drops or logs/roots. Just a thought.
> Ed and Pat Gifford


Thanks for the tip! We already have that backup plan as one of the teams that we ride with rides the same white/grey combo and they had a "blowout" with the white elastomer on one of our rides. Decided that I need to keep a leatherman in the camebak too b/c I don't think I could take that seatpost apart with just a multi tool.

So does she ride grey/grey as a result of the white failure? or do you just carry an extra elastomer for emergency use?


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

ds2199 said:


> Thanks for the tip! We already have that backup plan as one of the teams that we ride with rides the same white/grey combo and they had a "blowout" with the white elastomer on one of our rides. Decided that I need to keep a leatherman in the camebak too b/c I don't think I could take that seatpost apart with just a multi tool.
> 
> So does she ride grey/grey as a result of the white failure? or do you just carry an extra elastomer for emergency use?


They only purchased a single white elastomer as an experiment since they were listed for children(I believe) but she fit the weight criteria. What was decided was to ride the grey/grey set and back completely off the preload at the thru bolt to two threads showing. It seems this gives her a suitable comfort level though not as "cushy" as the white.
Ed and Pat


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Done deal, our Fandango is now sporting Shimano Octalink tandem cranks with the left side our timing chain and right side a 2x9 drivetrain utilizing the existing 11/34 and 22/36 setup. Retained the 2x9 SLX frt mech, and installed a bash guard in place of an outer ring.

I'll get photos when it's outside, next ride will hopefully be soon, stoker is a bit under the weather this weekend.

Next up is more mods to the ATC fork. 

Even though we have had driveline problems, on account of my running the right side drive, this bike has still been an energizer bunny.

With a bunch of miles on both this Fandango, our previous Cannondale, and the Ventana ECDM, each bikes strong points are very obvious. Often while riding, we discuss what could make each bike better. 

From the Cannondale, we would like to get the short wheelbase for close quarters handling and overall snappy handling. Unfortunately the 29r has to be longer for the wheels, plus on any bike, the added room for the stoker is better. But we still like that short wheelbase.

The suspension on the Ventana is crazy good. If this type of ride could be grafted into a 29r hardtail, that would be a dream machine. But when you build a XC hardtail, sometimes you must lift your fanny off the saddle. Thing is though, those big 29" tractor tires roll over a lot, just as folks say they do.

So knowing I can't get a shorter wheelbase bike without some other tradeoffs, and the full suspension ride will never happen on a hardtail XC bike, what would make our Fandango better?

Alex if you are listening...make the front der cable braze exit on less of a funny angle... No big deal but our cable sure comes from left to right with our setup. Might be the fact we run that Shimano SLX mult pull der as opposed to SRAM. We do a lot of front shifts with a 2x9. One other minor step to perfect, more tire clearance at the top of the seat stay. Real muddy days, we wear away the paint next to the tire. Plus, when we corner real hard, as in sliding the back or close to it, we as a heavy team sometimes flex the wheel or axle or something and hear a nano second "BUZZ" of the knobs on the seat stays. 

So coming into 6 months with our bike, a lot of true XC miles, one long race, a 50 mile event, a ton of night rides, several flatted Slime tubes, rides in downpours, scorching sunshine, thru swamps, palmettos and forrests, transportation to the store and dinner on several occasions while returning home from rides, Jamba Juice Smoothies or Ritas Italian Ices or Ice Cream, and plain old having a ball on this bike...

I can only come up with two teeny tiny comments...you did good on this design buddy...and to think I wanted NOTHING to do with a 29r prior to AORTA 2010.:thumbsup: :thumbsup::thumbsup: 

JK & PK


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## bikerkim (Nov 1, 2010)

howdy, folks. i'm new to this thread, and i'm_ this _close to fandango ownership: we bought a used one, and it hasn't arrived yet. 
as such, i have nothing to offer from experience, but i have read this thread, and have enjoyed the description of bikes and rides. we live in iowa, and have been a tandem team, the female companion and i, for just over a year. we've been doing lots of riding with our roadie, a santana sovereign, and as many races as we could find and fit in. but it wasn't enough, so we slapped on some knobbies, and hit the cross circuit, and even did a mountain bike race on it.
seriously hooked, we looked around for months, and after riding other folks' tandems, they all told us if they had it to do over again, they'd get a fandango. 
so we did. we found a 26" fandango tio at a very reasonable price, and are waiting for it to arrive.
not having a bike hasn't stopped us from entering races, though. we have a 100 miler lined up in may, and a 200 miler in june, with a bunch of shorter races scattered here and there.
we love riding tandems, and put about 8000 miles on the santana since getting it in late april--up until the snow dump ended that run. 
it will be interesting tweaking the bike so that it suits our needs, and i look forward to getting tips from these posts. i won't hesitate to ask.
anyway, howdy, all, from cold and snowy iowa.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

bikerkim said:


> howdy, folks. i'm new to this thread, and i'm_ this _close to fandango ownership: we bought a used one, and it hasn't arrived yet.
> as such, i have nothing to offer from experience, but i have read this thread, and have enjoyed the description of bikes and rides. we live in iowa, and have been a tandem team, the female companion and i, for just over a year. we've been doing lots of riding with our roadie, a santana sovereign, and as many races as we could find and fit in. but it wasn't enough, so we slapped on some knobbies, and hit the cross circuit, and even did a mountain bike race on it.
> seriously hooked, we looked around for months, and after riding other folks' tandems, they all told us if they had it to do over again, they'd get a fandango.
> so we did. we found a 26" fandango tio at a very reasonable price, and are waiting for it to arrive.
> ...


Welcome Bikerkim!

Congrats on the new Fandango! WOW 8000 miles, and I thought we rode a lot!

DirtyKanza in June?? We'll want to hear all about your races - good luck!


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## bikerkim (Nov 1, 2010)

we like to ride! ((-;


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Welcome Kim,
We spoke on the DF list about your new Fandango. Lots of really knowledgable folks here. Have fun with your new steed.:thumbsup: 
From snowy, XC skiing NJ,
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem
Toms River, NJ


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## bikerkim (Nov 1, 2010)

somehow or other, the female companion received your reply in her email. she, too, not only expressed interest in this thread, but also in learning from the experience of others how to get better herself in this mountain biking thing.


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## bikerkim (Nov 1, 2010)

well, we got the fandango, put it together, and have been riding it when possible, but like the rest of the country, we got wallopped with snow, so it has been cross country ski time here again.

but the bike itself is great fun. quickly slapped on some bar mitts and a rear fender for the female companion's comfort, and have been tooling around, tweaking and fine-tuning the settings, and trying to stay warm in the sub-zero weather that preceeded the big snow. no trail riding yet, but we'll be more than ready when it happens. love the set-up on the bike, but we will be adding soon the thudbuster seatpost for the stoker. does ANYONE like the tamer that comes with it? i have no idea what it's supposed to do.
no photos yet--not many others out riding, so no one to take an action shot yet.

stay warm, if you want to!!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

bikerkim said:


> but like the rest of the country, we got wallopped with snow, so it has been cross country ski time here again.
> 
> stay warm, if you want to!!


Please define rest of the country...Sunny and 78 today, it was tough to deal with.:thumbsup:

Seriously though, enjoy the skiing, glad you got the bike and enjoy it.

PK


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Hi, Fandangoans/tandemers,

Setting up our Fandango Tourista for the Great Divide trail, seeking advice. Alex, especially looking for any input from you, being the Nutt you are : )

Plan on off-loading most of the cargo to a BOB trailer rather than going the frame bag route. With that in mind, I'm thinking we have much more fork on the bike than will be needed on a ride of 80% dirt road and 10% paved. We're a 270 lb team.

In leiu of the White Bros T-100 on it now (which we love for general singletrack use) I'm thinking a light single-crown fork would be more suited to the ride. Offhandedly considering a rigid fork. Still running Thudbuster in rear. Would not be opposed to considering TB in front, a gel cover, or cushy saddle.

I have done some homework on the Divide, but of course the wild card is: just how bad is bad and for how long. I've owned a fully rigid MTB, so am somewhat braced for what we find. One BOB model has suspension, which could factor into our system. I'm ambivalent on which BOB presently.

Thanks in advance for any nuggets!

Mike


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

She&I said:


> ....... With that in mind, I'm thinking we have much more fork on the bike than will be needed on a ride of 80% dirt road and 10% paved. .......


"Ninety percent of this game is half-mental." - Yogi Berra

I guess this fork thing is driving you half mental. 
I can't afford new equipment for one ride, I'd just ride what I had.


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## eischman (Apr 5, 2005)

you may want to create your own thread instaed of using this one. Wow I envy you. I want to ddo this as well and probably on a tandem for the company and safety. I hear you on the rigid fork since you can lower the air pressure at times to give you a little suspension. I would highly recommend talking to so of the people who completed the ride. I do not know that much but am familar with it because Mathew Lee lives near me and a few others who competed. I would actually be more worried about the bok trailer on technical portions than the rigid fork. I would definitely ride stuff with a rigid fork that I would not cosider riding and pulling a trailer


Good luck! I would love to hear how it goes so I can start planning / training


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## eischman (Apr 5, 2005)

bme107 said:


> "Ninety percent of this game is half-mental." - Yogi Berra
> 
> I guess this fork thing is driving you half mental.
> I can't afford new equipment for one ride, I'd just ride what I had.


The entire route it is not 1 ride it is a 2700 mile tour. Even if they are doing a shortened (cutting off portions) any reduction in weight and or efficiency will make a big difference. If you have alreay invested over $4k in a bike and will be forking out a lot for the journey a few $'s is worth it.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

She&I said:


> Hi, Fandangoans/tandemers,
> 
> Setting up our Fandango Tourista for the Great Divide trail, seeking advice. Alex, especially looking for any input from you, being the Nutt you are : )
> 
> ...


Hey Mike! Glad to hear you're getting to ride tandem again.
Funny you should mention the fork thing...I have some info that may address that very subject, but I am not at liberty to post it here yet. We should know in a couple of weeks. Give me a call and I'll give you the details.
I'm envious of your trip! Be sure to take lots of pictures.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

RE "one ride"...I was looking at it like 50 or 60 rides 

Alex: veddy interestink! I'll buzz ya in March to get the scoop. Holler at me prior with any scoops if ya like.


Thanks for the feedback, peeps. At a leisurely pace with no deadline, it sounds like a pretty mellow time. I did a chunk of it last Fall by myself, so I have a little better idea what to expect.

We're excited to get out there and forget about normal life. We've been scheming how to get ten weeks off, and pretty much have it in the bag now. Prolly won't be able to do it until '12, but it's definitely on. We're way into being out there ourselves, but open to some days of tandem company if any of you fine teams need a break and think you can keep up with me drinking.* After the day's ride, o'course.

Cheers,

Mike


*JK. Alcohol consumption encouraged but not mandatory. My stoker abstains. Usually. Patron shots notwithstanding...


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

She&I said:


> RE "one ride"...I was looking at it like 50 or 60 rides
> 
> Alex: veddy interestink! I'll buzz ya in March to get the scoop. Holler at me prior with any scoops if ya like.
> 
> ...


Let us know as you get the timing of your trip planned, we may be able to meet you guys when you roll through Colorado.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Sounds fun, ds. Will do!

Sorry to monkey up the Fandango thread. Shoulda new threaded as advised.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Just built.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> Just built.


2x14 Rohloff?

...and for what specific reason.

PK


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## clj2289 (Jan 2, 2010)

Alex, will you bring that to Santos? Monica and I would like to ride it!


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

This particular tandem will be used as a support vehicle for a thru-hiker on the PCT later this year. As it will see a wide range of terrain from singletrack to roads, the owner wanted a corresponding wider gear range.
It's already on the way to it's new home. 
We may look at building something like this for the demo fleet, but that won't happen until the new frames get here, which looks to be after Santos, unfortunately.


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## clj2289 (Jan 2, 2010)

Alex, do you have an Rohloff's in your demo fleet for Santos? Any new features coming in the new frames?


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Looks a lot like our Fandango. I love the setup. Just a great bike all around.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Wondering how many are considering getting the new White Brothers single crown fork? We are still happily running an ATC. 

Anyone have any cool upgrades planned?

PK


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## malaclemys (Oct 22, 2010)

Well PK, what advantage(s) would there be? Alex seemed to think the single crown is only about 8oz lighter than the double crown. Would the single crown allow a tighter turn radius? If it boiled down to only a minor weight savings I would rather stick w/piece of mind a hang on to my double crown.

PS-FYI there aren't many ATCs that run as smoothly as yours.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Cool upgrades... titanium softtail BOB trailer. Picking it up in utopia next week.  Agree, tough to justify that new WB fork. But that doesn't mean we won't. Half a pound, hmm...

PK, hope your racer buddies got/get tooled up. Black Sabbath is now a fond memory.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

malaclemys said:


> Well PK, what advantage(s) would there be? Alex seemed to think the single crown is only about 8oz lighter than the double crown. Would the single crown allow a tighter turn radius? If it boiled down to only a minor weight savings I would rather stick w/piece of mind a hang on to my double crown.
> 
> PS-FYI there aren't many ATCs that run as smoothly as yours.


Seems the main advantages will be as you mentioned less weight and the tighter turning. Having gone from the Headshok Moto on our Cannondale, to the ECDM with the ATC, the only downside to the Fox 40 is the limits on how far it turns to hit the steering stop. There have been a couple of times when this caused us a problem but only a couple.

If the fork is legitimately a 1/2 pound less that is never bad.

I do know that I would like to find the time to convert our Fandangos ATC to air. With a set of ATC springs coming in at just over 1 pound, an air conversion would be a big deal for the ATC fork.

As for the stiction and overall smoothness of the ATC, I'm not sure when or where you saw / felt the fork. Glad you thought it was one of the better ones. The binding / stiction / overall lack of good feel to slide is something Alex and I have spoken about. I don't have a good answer yet on how to make it good, it seems it's more an accumulation of details. I now have three ATC forks in my possesion and plan to spend a bit of quality time before AORTA, hoping to get the Fandango fork a bit more up to par.

I will say that big ATC does draw a crowd, and steers very well.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

She&I said:


> Cool upgrades... titanium softtail BOB trailer. Picking it up in utopia next week.  Agree, tough to justify that new WB fork. But that doesn't mean we won't. Half a pound, hmm...
> 
> PK, hope your racer buddies got/get tooled up. Black Sabbath is now a fond memory.


A ti Bob trailer sounds very cool.

In regards to the fork, I have not seen one yet, nor ridden one, merely posted for conversation.

I must be having a grandpa moment because I'm not sure which racers and how Black Sabbath got tied in. Can you clarify for my tired old brain?

PK


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

PK:

"The team that's interested race adventure races, their wives work the logistics and race support for them. So this would be a male / male team. These two are fit and fast so they are interested in a hardtail and JJ freaked out when he saw ours."

That should rattle some neurons  

B. Sabbath was our much-loved, first Fandango. We're down to Black Magic now.

Mike


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

She&I said:


> PK:
> 
> "The team that's interested race adventure races, their wives work the logistics and race support for them. So this would be a male / male team. These two are fit and fast so they are interested in a hardtail and JJ freaked out when he saw ours."
> 
> ...


Not sure what they are doing, have not seen them in a while. Thought they may have made the trip to Santos for a test ride. Maybe the economy has them pinched for the moment.

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Just built...


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## caraapp (Nov 27, 2009)

ok, ok ! Now my interest has really been peaked: 
tell us more about the White Brothers single crown fork !

andy applegate


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

This is basically a single crown version of the Magic 100T that is on your tandem. Uncut weights appear to be about 8oz lighter for the SC. Rake/offset is a bit different too.
Same price and internals as the DC fork. We've requested some minor tweaks to the fork that WB has graciously accomodated, and the second generation will be available in about a month. Initial impressions are that this fork really wakes up the handling even more on the Fandango, as it has a bit more offset and rake. I don't have any high-speed experience with it yet, so not sure how it will behave in you guys' natural environment of warp speed.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

We are beat, pretty hot and sunny day, many hours of seat time, with just under 65 miles. Lot of time spent in the small front ring of our 2x9 exploring trail often too wet to ride. With no rain, these were finally accessible to see where they went. No rain also made other typically fast and packed dirt roads had been graded smooth and were so soft we sank in to the spoke nipples. Yes we had to get off and push.

So 11 hours of bike time, some riding with friends we happened upon as we headed out, some riding alone after our friends had to be back by 1pm. We are trashed, thoroughly heated but not sunburned.

Aside from being dusty, that Fandango does not care and never missed a beat.

With spring there should be some pretty cool adventures rolling under the tires of the workhorse machines.

PK


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## dccycling (Apr 13, 2011)

*New Fandango DC-9*

Wow! My wife and I just got our new Fandango last week and since reading these posts played a big part in our decision on getting the bike, I thought it seemed right to come here and say how impressed I already am.

Bad news first (since that's the order it came in)...the ordering wasn't without hiccups and there were more delays than I would have liked...including a mix up on the invoice that both Alex and I missed where they ended up sending us the wrong size frame the first time. However, to his credit, Alex did send us a new frame and worked with our local bike shop to get the parts switched over.

Yet, all the ordering adventures were worth it when I got on the bike. I took it out for a test ride by myself first on the canals by our house figuring that we (my wife Windy and I) had a long learning curve ahead of us. However, the bike handled so well that by the end of the afternoon Windy and I were over riding together on the singletrack by our house. We're both experienced mountain bike racers but this was our first ride on a tandem since one ill-fated 75 mile road ride on a rented tandem about 5 years ago. I was expecting a lengthy learning curve but I honestly it's going to be at least 3 to 4 times faster than I initially thought.

Just really, really impressed with the bike and the way it handles and rides. We even gave some serious consideration to packing things up and heading to Sea Otter this week to race it already but neither of us really wanted to make the 11 hour 1-way drive this weekend.

We're looking forward to spending more time on the bike and getting some racing in on it this summer. Thanks to those who posted here and had a hand in our decision.

Dave


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

dccycling said:


> Wow! My wife and I just got our new Fandango last week and since reading these posts played a big part in our decision on getting the bike, I thought it seemed right to come here and say how impressed I already am.
> 
> Bad news first (since that's the order it came in)...the ordering wasn't without hiccups and there were more delays than I would have liked...including a mix up on the invoice that both Alex and I missed where they ended up sending us the wrong size frame the first time. However, to his credit, Alex did send us a new frame and worked with our local bike shop to get the parts switched over.
> 
> ...


Sorry for helping you spend your money.

Hope you enjoy it for many happy miles. Ours is truly an offroad excursion machine.

Also, where's the photos of the new ride. Didn't even see mention of the color or curiosities of the build.

PK


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## japm (Dec 4, 2007)

Hello All,
Well, we've joined the Fandango club! Here is a pic of the two of us with our new DC-9. It is stock except that we decided on the mechanical brakes instead of the hydraulic version. We are loving it so far. We regularly ride a road bike, but thought this would be a great addition to the fleet. We were right about that. We would love to find other riders in Massachusetts or Southern NH for some off road rides. 
Joe and Kathy


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## benwitt11 (May 1, 2005)

Alex, 

Is the new WB fork lower transferable to the DC versions? I'm guessing higher rake? 

Ben


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

japm said:


> Hello All,
> Well, we've joined the Fandango club! Here is a pic of the two of us with our new DC-9. It is stock except that we decided on the mechanical brakes instead of the hydraulic version. We are loving it so far. We regularly ride a road bike, but thought this would be a great addition to the fleet. We were right about that. We would love to find other riders in Massachusetts or Southern NH for some off road rides.
> Joe and Kathy


Hi and Welcome Joe and Kathy,
Pat and I have ridden with you guys at several ETR's in the past. Glad to see you've finally come to the "dark side". We love MTB tandeming and find it as our bike of choice lately. We have a Ventana ECDM( also purchased from Alex) and love it! Your Fandango 29er sure looks sweet and we hope to ride with you guys sometime this year.We had a Fandango 26er for several years and have a great many fond memories on it. We are members of the DOGS and generally show up to events with Brenda and Larry Isherwood. Brenda has a few events planned for this year at Raystown Lake in PA and Kingdom Trails in VT. The details are posted on the DOGS website. We will be going to Kingdom Trails.Good luck with the new tandem.:thumbsup: 
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem
Toms River, NJ


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

japm said:


> Hello All,
> Well, we've joined the Fandango club! Here is a pic of the two of us with our new DC-9. It is stock except that we decided on the mechanical brakes instead of the hydraulic version. We are loving it so far. We regularly ride a road bike, but thought this would be a great addition to the fleet. We were right about that. We would love to find other riders in Massachusetts or Southern NH for some off road rides.
> Joe and Kathy


Nice bike, enjoy it.

And look at that nice hardpack dirt, like the bike, looks fast.

Having rolled many miles off road on a single bike in Mass, the NE is a place we both want to ride the tandem. The rocks like in New England are something we don't have in Florida.

We would love to do Kingdom Trails with the DOGS, just doubt we could pull it off with work.

If we head North we'll try and look you two up, probably look up some of the NJ teams and see if we can sneak a ride in with them too.

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

benwitt11 said:


> Alex,
> 
> Is the new WB fork lower transferable to the DC versions? I'm guessing higher rake?
> 
> Ben


Ben,
The lowers are very similar to the DC version, but not the same, The difference in the handling is coming from the offset/rake difference, which is mostly in the crown itself.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Goldie Lox:


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> Goldie Lox:


More like Miller High Life .

It looks really good.

East Coast or West Coast?

Build details?

PK


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## clj2289 (Jan 2, 2010)

PK, Miller High Life? More like a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

clj2289 said:


> PK, Miller High Life? More like a Sierra Nevada Pale Ale.


BINGO! shipped this one to Colorado.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

TandemNut said:


> BINGO! shipped this one to Colorado.


Can you share what city? We need to meet our new Fandango friends...


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> BINGO! shipped this one to Colorado.


Did the customer supply the fork?

PK


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

TandemNut said:


> Goldie Lox:


I just noticed, no Thudbuster? :nono: My stoker might not be to keen on that...

Alex - let the proud new owners of that bike know that theres a small contingent of MTB tandems here in Colorado and they should PM me if they have any interest in getting out with the group.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Got a chance to check out the latest version of the Fandango frame.

Some very welcome changes, but nothing that makes an earlier Fandango 29r obsolete.

We run a big rear tire and it is a close fit. (Panaracer Rampage 29x2.35). Where our frame is always close and wears away paint from wheel flex, the new frame is changed with wider seat stays at the top.

The new frame also has gone to the 1.5" headtube standard. This cool for a couple of reasons. First is the ability to run a full 1.5" or tapered or even 1 1/8" fork. Second is the Cane Creek adjustable headset setup. Using this with a 1 1/8" fork, you can alter the effective angle of the steering axis (headtube angle).

I also heard the stoker seattube angle is laid back more. This is allowing more tire clearance, especially in regards to the front mech. FWIW, our previous version frame, runs a Shimano STX front mech, stock it cleared the tire, but I was able to trim off the actuating arm for downpull action, this gained some welcome clearance, but even more would be better. Additionally, after talking with the owners of the new single crown equipped bike, they commented that the already great rear grip was enhanced with the ability to get over the tire easier.

I was able to do a short dirt road test ride on two of the newer bikes. One had the new single crown WB fork at the stock angle. The other was an MTBTandems.com demo bike. The demo bike had the adjustable headset with it set for a steeper angle. The difference in feel regarding effort to turn the bars and slow moving manners was easily noticed. 

Again nothing to make a previous frame obsolete, but nice refinements of the original design making a great bike better.

Just sharing some thoughts.

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Just built:


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

And this one too:


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## strow (Feb 14, 2011)

PK,

Thanks for your thoughts and observations on the new frame. We've got a new one coming and are looking forward to it very much. We've already planned to take some vacation time for the shakedown rides. 

For now the road tandem will have to do.

strow


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

strow said:


> PK,
> 
> Thanks for your thoughts and observations on the new frame. We've got a new one coming and are looking forward to it very much. We've already planned to take some vacation time for the shakedown rides.
> 
> ...


Are you getting a complete bike or just a frame?

Any planned ideas for how it will be built?

From the posted photos, you will notice many variants of building a Fandango 29r. Many owners have posted details of their builds, bikes, sometimes trails and even rider and ride impressions. Alex hasn't listed details of the bikes he has posted photos of, but it seems a good number are being built with Rohloffs.

Not sure of where you live or plan to ride, or even your teams skill set and planned use, but I would seriously consider gearing choice. Team Judd are very good climbers and supplement feature with gearing to let them climb when others walk. Trust me, our shoes are worn. Also, make an educated choice for your area in regards to tire selection. Fandangos are nimble enough to feel definite results from various tire selections. You should be able to find a good all-around well performing tire.

We would love a newer version frame, but currently our bike is still more than fine for us and money is a factor.

Keep us updated to the progress.

PK


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## strow (Feb 14, 2011)

PK,

In answer to your questions:

1- We're having a complete bike built by Alex.

2- It will be a DC-9 build with White single crown, tapered fork. The stoker requested a Grinch Green frame so that's we're getting. ( Tandem Rule #1 )

This will be our first tandem mtn. bike. We have learned much from this thread and folks like you that have taken the time to post their experiences and knowledge. A Saturday spent riding demo bikes with Alex and getting questions answered didn't hurt the cause either.

We're located in the southeastern corner of Alabama and have a choice of riding options from fire roads to single track. The plan is to start slowly, develop our skills, and see where it leads us. ( We're a 109 yr. old team ) My parents live in the Tampa Bay area and the road tandem always goes on our frequent visits. The mtn. tandem will open up some new places to enjoy like Croom and Santos. ( used to ride motorcycles at Croom in my youth )

As a new dirt team we have much to learn. But isn't that at least half the fun?

We'll keep you posted...............

strow


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Sounds like it will be a nice build. Test rides are a really cool way to spend money.

If you have read this entire topic, it probably states early on that as a team we had no intention of riding a 29r. The test ride at AORTA 2010 pretty much convinced us about the bikes performance, fit and quality. Our current Fandango is our typical bike of choice for much of the mileage we ride off-road. rides.

Yes, you have Croom, but it is probably exactly like when you twisted a throttle...often sandy.

For us and possibly the other Florida teams that have ridden Santos may agree that Santos is almost purpose built for a tandem.

While in Tampa, don't forget Boyette and Alafia. We have ridden both places. As you may be aware, SWAMP, the local club does a great job with those trails. There are definite trails that are built marked and maintained for each skill level. Respect that with regards to your adventuremeter and ability.

Just about an hour drive north of Santos is San Felasco. This is another great trail that is very tandem friendly. There are a few places that may test your switchback skills, however I would say it is 100% rideable.

Sounds like you have a plan and purpose to travel / ride. Now the flip side, with you having a road tandem, possibly you attend road events also. Might keep this group in mind. Other Florida off-road teams, including us, also hit the pavement,

http://www.floridatandemclub.org/

The Panthers group is based about 20 minutes south of Santos and rides several times per week.

If you transport by car, you may need a second rail for your roof rack when visiting.

Give some advance warning when you plan to ride in Florida, possibly we can get a small group of several or more bikes riding Santos.

PK


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

I have actually considered doing an MTB Tandems Bike porn/pic thread or something silimar, which would also include more build specs on the individual bikes, and new products if/when they come available. However, I don't want to take advatage of or abuse this forum by doing so. What say you the other subscribers here???


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

TandemNut said:


> I have actually considered doing an MTB Tandems Bike porn/pic thread or something silimar, which would also include more build specs on the individual bikes, and new products if/when they come available. However, I don't want to take advatage of or abuse this forum by doing so. What say you the other subscribers here???


post em up! Maybe we need one of them "show us your tandem" threads anyway


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> I have actually considered doing an MTB Tandems Bike porn/pic thread or something silimar, which would also include more build specs on the individual bikes, and new products if/when they come available. However, I don't want to take advatage of or abuse this forum by doing so. What say you the other subscribers here???


You can start a new topic or take the bike shots you already posted and add the details. This would keep all the Fandango stuff grouped together in one topic. I don't really see it as abuse of the forum, more sharing ideas.

These Fandangos have been built in many different variations. Often they get ridden and modified further. I know ours has seen some changes from the original build. Team Judd has been on a ride it wear it out upgrade program and has now got a very high end machine.

Like DS says, POST EM UP.

The ECDM topic should be the same, show em off, it's all good.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

This weekend marks the anniversary of us getting our Fandango frame.

It took a few weeks to build it up, so the true ride anniversary is a couple weeks away.

Last night, 07.02 was the first time this bike has not finished a ride...

The bike has been ridden a lot over the past year. It started out with a 2x9 all right side drive, and now is running a 2x9 right and left side setup.

The fork has been pampered a bit, and now is in my opinion a great hardtail reliable fork. It's massive and easily handles the tandems added loads.

Not much except the drivetrain has been changed (cranks and BB's) except for wear items.

After some tire testing, we settled on running Panaracer Rampages. We also run Slime tubes.

This is where the first push it home came in. We headed out for a sunset / finish in the dark ride. Pretty typical, leave from home, get in about 30 miles, finish at home. We got a flat. Luckily we had cut the ride short and were headed home. The bike felt odd, and sure enough the rear tire was low. We managed to clear the woods and I gave it a fast pump up at the sidewalk towards home. 

Well, yes I could have changed the tube, but I explained to the stoker, 2 new tires are sitting at home and these two are bald, lets just get home. 1 mile from home we were on a total flat, doing our best to save the wheel and be like Lance at Leadville.

1/2 mile out we walked.

So for one year of total abuse, many long distance rides, rain, mud, swamps, drought sandy sections the bike has been through quite a bit.

One DNF, which could have been a simple mosquito laden tube change is all to report back on.

I already have the tires, planning to get some new tubes & rim strips. Rear derailleur pulleys could cut lumber so they will get replaced. Probably rebuild the Avid BB7 calipers and replace the cables. And of course some new grips. If the stoker is nice I will rebuild the pivots on her Thudbuster too.

I have no recorded mileage for every ride on this bike, I'm speculating it's a decent amount past 2000 miles off road for the year, possibly over 3000. The bike still is our first choice for most rides...even if my shoes are worn from walking a short distance.

Sorry for the bad report Alex, I would have thought it could go at least a year without a DNF...

PK


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## Sam Jones (Feb 25, 2005)

PMK said:


> If the stoker is nice I will rebuild the pivots on her Thudbuster too.
> 
> PK


*Your stoker is WAAAAAAAY beyond NICE!*


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Sam Jones said:


> *Your stoker is WAAAAAAAY beyond NICE!*


She enjoyed our chats with you Gail and Bandit during AORTA.

I think my stoker smiles but cringes when moto guys get together.

BTW, I have not forgotten about the KTMTalk topic. Just been busy.

So your vote says rebuild the Thudbuster.:thumbsup:

I do need to add that all the stokers that we have been around are good people.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

I did not accomplish all I wanted to while the bike was apart. It got a decent cleaning, the new pulleys, tires and tubes.

Grips are here and will go on soon.

We've put a bunch of miles on it since back together...

The bike is still our most ridden machine.

I'm sure that there are a bunch more sold and ridden since this topic started...post some photos or share some stories people. 

PK


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

PMK said:


> I'm sure that there are a bunch more sold and ridden since this topic started...post some photos or share some stories people.
> PK


PK, would love to contribute here. We got a good number of rides on our DC-9, then decided the normal drive isn't up to the task of hard riding. (Not without requisite wrenching and replacing parts, anyway.) So we replaced it with the Rohloff-equipped Tourista. We got one ride on it last year before my babe took some overseas work, so I've had this essentially-new awesome rig sitting for a year. Ouch, man. You can bet we'll be thrashing the living sh|t out of it this fall. Yea, the check's in the mail. I'm still living through you guys, so keep rocking the Fandangos (and all brands) and we'll get up to speed in coming weeks.

Cheers,

Mike


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

She&I said:


> PK, would love to contribute here. We got a good number of rides on our DC-9, then decided the normal drive isn't up to the task of hard riding. (Not without requisite wrenching and replacing parts, anyway.) So we replaced it with the Rohloff-equipped Tourista. We got one ride on it last year before my babe took some overseas work, so I've had this essentially-new awesome rig sitting for a year. Ouch, man. You can bet we'll be thrashing the living sh|t out of it this fall. Yea, the check's in the mail. I'm still living through you guys, so keep rocking the Fandangos (and all brands) and we'll get up to speed in coming weeks.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Mike


Get that thing cleaned and lubed...take a photo and paste it here, even if you did before. Good to hear you'll be tandeming again.

We had an oh crap, wish we had a helmet cam on during the ride last Sunday. I typically do not mind riding rain ruts on descents. Most times not a big deal, just sketchy. Descending a narrow under 12" wide ribbon of trail on our hill trail, found me get the bike in a rut at probably 18 mph. Up ahead I see a dark spot in the trail, we have had a lot of rain recently so I knew this could be bad. Hard on the brakes, and trying to climb out of the rut, but it won't stop or jump out. I send orders to the stern "HANG ON, SIT BACK! I just released the brakes to keep some momentum. We hit a huge square edged hole. My wrists were killin' me after the impact.

Rode the same trail last night. Knowing it was coming this time I stayed to the side of that rut. I checked out the hole going by it. Could not easily see a bottom and the distance across was easily over a foot, probably more like 16".

Note to self, "enjoy ruts because you like to ride them and other challenges, but don't get overconfident"

Fandango is a great bike on that trail. We rode it with CLJ when they visited last winter. I think he enjoyed it, short climbs and descents, mostly slower when headed up. It was windy the day we rode it with CLJ. We looked back at one point and wondered why they stopped...they were blown of the trail from the high winds.

PK


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## strow (Feb 14, 2011)

We've had our DC-9 for a month now and have really enjoyed getting up to speed with it. It's been on fire roads, mups, state forest trails, and some very tight, narrow, root filled single track that was beyond our current skill set. ( blood & bruises to prove it ) The tandem has not let us down or disappointed. There's always the minor adjustments and changes you make to tweak the fit and comfort, but we have no complaints with the bike. 

Coming from a road background, we're discovering the differences with every outing, learning what to take with you on the trail, the different communication needs, and handling skills.
The Fandango has been a great platform to help us through our growing pains. The stoker always comments on how well it climbs and how comfortable it rides. ( refer to tandem rule #1 )

Thanks to Alex for all his help and this forum for providing information to help a new team get started. 

strow


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## dlevett (Apr 13, 2010)

Great Thread Guys - I'm new on here (from the Frozen North) - Just ordered my Fandango from Alex, and looking forward to my first ever ride on a Tandem - me and my 9 year old lad! (we'll be on a 17/15).
Cheers,
Dave.


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## glenndandy (Aug 5, 2006)

*short stems and Fandangos....*

I have a small size Fandango on the way to me in a few weeks from Alex ( many thanks to this forum especially!). Me at 5'7 , and the ETT at 24.2", seems it will likely be long for me. I'm have a few 29er singles and the ETT's all hover ,quite comfortably,at the 22.5-22.7inch range with 100-110mm stems. Has anyone tried real short stems...like 60mm-70mm on a small size frame Fandango? Curious how it affects steering and especially front end traction....FYI, I'm running the single crown White Bros.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

glenndandy said:


> I have a small size Fandango on the way to me in a few weeks from Alex ( many thanks to this forum especially!). Me at 5'7 , and the ETT at 24.2", seems it will likely be long for me. I'm have a few 29er singles and the ETT's all hover ,quite comfortably,at the 22.5-22.7inch range with 100-110mm stems. Has anyone tried real short stems...like 60mm-70mm on a small size frame Fandango? Curious how it affects steering and especially front end traction....FYI, I'm running the single crown White Bros.


I've had great luck with a 85mm stem. Have not tried anything smaller (but was also concerned about the longer ETT but it's all good!). I'm 5'8".

If you have the luxury of trying different stems, you may want to try a few different options?


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## Dr. Paul Proteus (Sep 26, 2004)

glenndandy said:


> I have a small size Fandango on the way to me in a few weeks from Alex ( many thanks to this forum especially!). Me at 5'7 , and the ETT at 24.2", seems it will likely be long for me.


FWIW, I don't think stem length really effects handling on a tandem quite like it does on single bikes. Quite logical actually when you think about it - weight distribution is dictated by captain + stoker & the overall reach (stem length) only plays a minor role in the captain's C.G. & none in the stoker's.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Dr. Paul Proteus said:


> FWIW, I don't think stem length really effects handling on a tandem quite like it does on single bikes. Quite logical actually when you think about it - weight distribution is dictated by captain + stoker & the overall reach (stem length) only plays a minor role in the captain's C.G. & none in the stoker's.


Granted there is more natural weight loading on the front wheel of a tandem. The number to "crunch" would be weight bias, or percentage of weight carried by each wheel when fully laden.

The captain stem can alter weight bias slightly, however it is more important in regards to comfort. Almost as important is the effort to turn the bars when adding input to turn, the most important though is probably the effort of upright the bike after a corner. Some trails require little effort, while others can work you "chicken wing" muscles more than a dirt bike. The turning effort is not only a stem function, but also factors in head angle, trail dimension, bar width and height, plus the terrain.

Find what works and don't be afraid to test beyond what others recommend or what is deemed "normal". There is no magic formula, just good basepoints that work for many teams.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

After many weeks of real hot days, we finally got a break. With the heat, the Fandango has not seen the use typical of other times of the year. Crazy as it sounds, we spent many weekends on the Co-Motion, granted it has been hot, but at least we had air moving over us.

Tonight the Fandango got a good run, a fast ride, mostly off-road for 2 1/2 hours. Rode non stop, with a 5 minute stop on the ride home to get Gatorade and candy bars.

The heat of previous rides really slowed us down. The rides in the rain made it like riding on a mattress. Cooler temps, no rain, good dirt...just as we remembered...this is a fast bike with the reliability of a bowling ball.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Fandango in the news:

Mountain biking: Two minutes shaved off record | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Light bikepacking setup with off-the-shelf systems on our Tourista.










All stock except: Ergon GX1 grips, stoker rise bar, stoker post (for bikepacking only), and some drive mods to get the ratio down to an unrecomm, er, ridiculously low bottom end.

And dig this...it has a Fandango logo on it 

A very comfortable and capable bike...big nod to Alex N. and MTBTandems!

Mike


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)




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## tndmnuts (Oct 8, 2011)

*29er tandems*

From reading your posts it looks like 26" tandems will switch over to the 29 er advantage like single mountain bikes. I do appreciate the advantages you all post. What is the widest tire a 29 er will accept with aggressive knobbies?
I saw 4 pics of tandems from the 2011 Tour de Felasco in Florida. Maybe more tandems will make the pics this year. Let's hope so!

Happy trails


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

tndmnuts said:


> From reading your posts it looks like 26" tandems will switch over to the 29 er advantage like single mountain bikes. I do appreciate the advantages you all post. What is the widest tire a 29 er will accept with aggressive knobbies?
> I saw 4 pics of tandems from the 2011 Tour de Felasco in Florida. Maybe more tandems will make the pics this year. Let's hope so!
> 
> Happy trails


2.35 Panaracer Rampage is my standard rear tire on the Fandango. 2.4 Maxxis Ardent up front, but that has nothing to o with frame clearance. I am not sure if I'd call those tires "aggressive", but they're not light XC tires either...


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

I'd guess a 2.4 would have breathing room. We're still on our stock Exiwolf 2.3s. We'll probably put a 2.4 on the rear next (good to hear, ds). On the Rohloff, inflating the tire fully after the wheel's been installed on the bike is necessary unless you want to take the chain tensioner off or remove its rear stop. 

tndmnuts, I'd say there are even more advantages to the 29er platform for a tandem than a single. Nobody gets a tandem expecting to feel nimble and flickable on the trail, so why not 29"? Bigger wheels roll through better at lower speeds and inevitable rough areas you get into while turning a longer bike. Under-bike clearance on a tandem is already abysmal, why have it worse than it needs to be? Maybe for certain riders a 26" would be better, but we haven't found any situation where I'd rather have 26" wheels on our Fandango.

Cheers and happy new year,

Mike


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

We have both, and for this household 26" is long from dead.

Granted the 26" is a full suspension bike, but it accelerates, slows down and is far more workable on a technical trail than our 29r.

The 29r has it's place, but it is nowhere near a perfect replacement for a good 26" bike. Single or tandem.

The big front wheel plays with the geometry a bit for anything more than cross country type riding.

Both platforms have merit...the trick is building the best compromise.

PK


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## tndmnuts (Oct 8, 2011)

*26 or 29r*

Great feedback. It looks like I will end up keeping my Ventana 26 full suspension bike and look at getting a 29r. Although a bit crazy I am still hoping to get a hard tail like the Sandman tandem for 3 .8 inch tires. For those of you who have ridden a Pugsley, or equivalent, you will understand.

SOMETIMES SLOWER CAN BE BETTER


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

tndmnuts said:


> Great feedback. It looks like I will end up keeping my Ventana 26 full suspension bike and look at getting a 29r. Although a bit crazy I am still hoping to get a hard tail like the Sandman tandem for 3 .8 inch tires. For those of you who have ridden a Pugsley, or equivalent, you will understand.
> 
> SOMETIMES SLOWER CAN BE BETTER


The first part of owning the pair of tandems makes sense if the places you ride warrants the possibility of needing suspension 26 and hardtail 29.

Recently DS, sold his ECDM 26 and stepped into a ECDM 29. Photos of where he rides makes the decision a wise no brainer.

As for the Pugsley...I have ridden one, considered one, and pretty much decided no. FWIW, we ride a lot of sand. I deal with it a lot, and if it is so sandy that a regular tired bike can't ride it, well I'd rather spend the day at the beach metal detecting for 1715 fleet treasure or other cool stuff.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Months have gone by with little activity on this topic about the Fandangos. 

As the OP of this topic, and one with many post into it, I wanted to update a bit. Early January we did a long ride on the Fandango. I was already suffering from an injury but rode anyway. The hardtail Fandango worked great, as it always does on longer rides.

We completed the ride, but quickly learned my back was not well. So with months off from riding in the dirt, we sadly decided to sell our Fandango. This was tough as it was our "Go-To" bike since purchasing it.

After having it listed for a while, the Fandango was sold to a new team in the Midwest. During the course of having the bike listed for sale, many of the inquiries were ultimately tire kickers. No big deal, and honestly had no problem recommending Alex as a source for them to buy a new bike. While we hated to part with it, when the new owner explained the type of riding he preferred, where he rode and what his other bikes were, Jeanne and I both smiled knowing the Fandango would go to a new home and be ridden as intended.

I've have had very little correspondence with the new owner, but did receive an email from him recently. Very few words and a photo. 

To quote "Bike is rocking!"

And the photo, tough to see on account of the small size, but the Fandango with a first place trophy resting on its handlebar.

Made us both smile.

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Good to hear the old tandem is doing good.........:thumbsup:
Here is a question was the Fandango only a 29er I never read any post on 26" before


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

XC Mike said:


> Good to hear the old tandem is doing good.........:thumbsup:
> Here is a question was the Fandango only a 29er I never read any post on 26" before


Pat and I started our MTB tandeming on a Fandango 26er. The frame was manufactued in China and imported. A year later Alex brought the Fandango line back to being a Made in the USA frame and converted to the 29er platform. Although we loved our 26 Fandango it wasn't half the tandem that the new 29ers are. We traded up to an ECDM and are very happy with it.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

giff07 said:


> Pat and I started our MTB tandeming on a Fandango 26er. The frame was manufactued in China and imported. A year later Alex brought the Fandango line back to being a Made in the USA frame and converted to the 29er platform. Although we loved our 26 Fandango it wasn't half the tandem that the new 29ers are. We traded up to an ECDM and are very happy with it.
> Ed and Pat Gifford
> the Snot Rocket tandem


Ed do you have any old pictures of the 26er?
The more I look at the ECDM Thread the more I want one........But I do love my C-Dale it's great and when it's on the Road it's a Rocket :thumbsup:


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

XC Mike said:


> Ed do you have any old pictures of the 26er?
> The more I look at the ECDM Thread the more I want one........But I do love my C-Dale it's great and when it's on the Road it's a Rocket :thumbsup:


I will look. I'm pretty sure we do. If not I will take some the next time we ride with the new owners who we ride with semi regularly. I think you would find it pretty close to your Cdale. It did have a White Bros. dual crown Magic 100T fork and Magura Hydraulic discs. A pretty standard MTBTandems build. The ECDM is definately a bike to be excited about.
Pat loves to tell the story of how I unclipped her and rode the bike out from under her on a log over that I hit a little too enthusiastically. I heard a thud and when I stopped and looked she was about ten feet behind me seated in the middle of the trail. That was on the hardtail Fandango. No such issues on the Ventana.
Ed and Pat


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Heres two pics of the 26 Fandango.The frame and build is still out on the trails doing what tandems do best.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice lookin' ride Ed the one thing I wish the C-Dale had was Top Routed Cables....... 
The Red looks Sweet what was the asking price on these frames only?


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Thanks Mike,
I can't remember exactly what the frame price was but I think it was somewhere in the $6-700.00 range. We loved that tandem but a few of the places we ride are filled with rock gardens. One time riding with friends that had an ECDM we rode a section on the hard tail then he said to stop and take the Ventana back and ride the section again with the suspension turned on. Not only was it smoother and 
more comfortable but I would guess twice as fast. After that my stoker said she would never ride the rock garden areas again until we purchased a Ventana. Hey, ya don't have to tell me twice! Pics of the Snot Rocket are in the ECDM posting if interested.

Ed and Pat
TSRT


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## chriswrightcycles (Oct 26, 2011)

*test*

test post


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## wendye (Sep 7, 2012)

*where to post tandem classified?*

Trying to sell my Fandango MTB tandem and see that MTBR has no tandem category. Any suggestions for good websites?


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Place ad with MTBR and then post your link in this forum.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

wendye said:


> Trying to sell my Fandango MTB tandem and see that MTBR has no tandem category. Any suggestions for good websites?


Email me the details. I always have folks looking for used ones.
Thanks


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

wendye said:


> Trying to sell my Fandango MTB tandem and see that MTBR has no tandem category. Any suggestions for good websites?


Having just done the same, you can use my previous ad as a guideline if you want to.

I listed here on MTBR, paid the $2 or whatever it is. Posted the ad in the for sale section then sort of copy and pasted here as a "Paid Spam".

This is what I ran for the add.

http://forums.mtbr.com/tandem-mountain-bikes/paid-spam-fandango-29r-769284.html

You can also list it on

Tandem Magazine Online

Be prepared for a bunch of requests for more info and photos. We also had a pretty expensive build, this had many folks asking why they shouldn't just buy a new. I explained the cost to build a similar bike new, and also forwarded them to Alex at MTBTandems.com when it was obvious they needed a new bike with less of a high end build for less money.

It took a while to sell, but Jeanne and I both are happy our Fandango is being ridden as it was intended and built for.

Best of luck with the sale.

As Alex, the Tandemnut mentioned, send some details to me also. We constantly get inquiries when riding, or even just hanging out at the local shop.

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

This is the Fandango thread post some pic's 26" or 29" ?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Where is the action on this topic, this is currently the best hardtail 29r offered. These bikes work, and work well. Share the love and post some stories / adventures about these bikes. Heck, brag about your machine and post the details.

PK


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Timely nudge, PK.

Ours has been in storage for seven months while the wife worked an outa state gig. We'll be back on ours in coming weeks; just in time for hero dirt and prime weather 

Hope everybody's been too busy riding to report...

Mike


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

New Fandango owners here with barely few enough miles to chime in on this thread. Although I'd rather be out riding this weekend, we have had almost 4" of rain in the past 24 hours with another 1-3" in the forecast for today, so, since I've tweaked and wrenched on every bike in the garage that I can, I figure I'll add what I can here with more to come.

I/We have the good pleasure of living ~4 miles from the worldwide HQ of mtbtandems.com with a heck of a good local trail system smack inbetween - Blankets Creek (BC). BC has ~18 miles of tight, and in some cases, techy singletrack for a single bike much less a tandem, so it really makes for a great proving ground. The trailhead is 2.2 miles from our garage, which is a perfect warm-up ride.  Thus far, this has been the extent of our adventures.

The details:
Size small, carbon black Fandango
Std DC9 drivetrain w/X9 grip shift, fr/rr derailleurs
Std DC9 cockpit bits, thudbuster, etc.

Wheels: We have put some initial miles on a demo wheelset while our wheels were being built. The demo wheelset is a std HOPE Evo Tandem hub built around a Velocity Blunt35 rim with brass nipples and 14/15 db spokes. The wheels have remained true thus far and the wide 35mm rim does a beautiful job of spreading out the tire casing. So much that we have yet to feel the front push in the turns; likely helped with the aggressive tread pattern of the WTB Bronson. Speaking of which, the Bronson appears to be a nice mix of fast rolling and grip - durability is yet to be determined.

I have become accustomed to having King hubs on my single bike and look for that almost instant engagement offered by the 72pt pawl. Also, it's a hub I'm familiar with working on and the ability to keep consistency in the garage is another reason to have the tandem wheels built up with Kings. That said, the Hope Evo build has been solid and true thus far and if these were our permanent wheels, I'd run them with no problem.

Fork: We opted to skip the dual-crown Loop and spec ours with a single-crown Magic 100. Our first ride out I didn't take the time to understand the adjustments available on the fork - my fault. The second ride was much better and the fork performed very well with the adjustments made. We are on the light end of the scale at a team weight of 265lbs, so we are all the way on the end of the adjustability scale for the Magic. After some time talking with Suspension Experts in Asheville, NC, I believe that we can spend a few dollars and have them work some magic into the Magic. The fork is really oversprung for our weight and SE indicated that they have had luck using Fox springs on the fork and good success working on the damper. So, at some point, we will likely send the fork off for a custom tune. However, if it continues to feel better with each ride, there may be no need to...

Brakes: We had the opportunity to upgrade our brakes from the Magura MT4s to the venerable Hope Vtech4s. Besides being a machined work of art, the brakes can haul down 325lbs of bike and people to a stop on an absolute dime. I'm very impressed with the brakes thus far and look forward to some rides in the mtns with long downhills and the opportunity to really heat up the system. I'm sure the braided steel lines and 203mm rotors will do a great job of dissipating heat.

Pedals: Crank Bros Candies for Captain and Stoker.
Grips: Ergon GS1s for the Stoker, standard for me until a new shipment of ergons arrive at mtbtandems.

Changes we have made thus far from delivery are limted only to both the Captain and Stoker handlebars and a million and one adjustments to seating and cockpit position. I installed a flat, wide and swept back aluminum bar in favor of the narrower stock bar that was spec'd. Primarily to mirror the fit on my 29'r single bike, but also to settle down and offset the super-quick handling of the 74deg head angle. The 710mm wide bar and 110mm Thomson stem did a great job of giving a nice stable platform for slow speed crawling and a better position for railing through the woods at speed. If anything, it made me feel more comfortable and familiar to what I'm used to.

For my stoker, we went narrower with a slight rise to mimic her position on her single bike - it made a lot of difference to her. We also swapped a blue for a grey elastomer in her thudbuster and put the blue one in the saddle bag for when the grey cracks on the trail.

We had only an OK ride our first time out as I didn't take enough responsibility to set the bike up properly for the ride; we were excited and just went. So, we were both a bit uncomfortable and sore, but knew it could be better. We did have a great time though...

Before our 2nd ride, I spent 2-3 hours setting up the bike's fit and front suspension to mirror both of our single bikes. Thus, our 2nd ride was all smiles and really a great time.

As we get a few more rides, I'll update with specific ride characteristics. But for now, we love it and can't thank Alex enough for his kindness and accessibility in getting us setup. If you're reading this and on the fence, go for it! You won't be disappointed!:thumbsup:

Michael and Carin


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Still raining here; I think we've had 5.5-6" of rain over the past 4 days. I did find some time to swap the WTB SpeedV seat over to my other favorite WTB saddle, the Silverado. I've been using this model saddle for the past 6-7 years and it fits my hide really well.

In the pic below, you can see the difference in the thickness of the two saddles. The Silverado is a firmer saddle that puts me back on my sit bones where I'm more comfy for longer rides.

Oh well, no rides to report, but will update mods as they happen.


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## ybtodd (Jul 6, 2009)

Am pondering getting back into a tandem. I had a Santana road back in the mid 90's, then a Santana mtn in the late 90's set up with a child stoker for my then very young son. Long since sold but on the wrong side of age 50 now I really need to get back riding. Pavement blows here in LA so dirt is the only viable option unless I want to get run off the road by some driver on his/her cell phone. My wife happily rides on the back of our GS motorcycle, so I figure she'll be ideal as a stoker (unlike my ex-wife who really didn't like the idea - there's a story or three there).

At any rate, looking at Fandango DC-9 or a Ventana build. Mostly seems to be a question of DS or not. I'm thinking we'll be mostly fire road and probably some pavement (unavoidable). That seems to lean towards the DC-9 but comfort is king for an aging body.

Advice/pushes either direction happily read.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

ybt, welcome, and congrats on the new stoke for a big bike.

We went Fandango DC9, then Fandango Tourista in hopes of some bikepacking missions. Meanwhile it's our tandem for local singletrack, and I have to say that it's pretty incredible on tech terrain with the Magic 100 fork and 2.4" tires.

We see some FS rigs and think of how that would dreamify our chunk riding. But how many bikes can one own? With an existing quiver it's hard to justify every flavor.

I'll say flatly that you cannot go wrong with MTB Tandems or Ventana.

As always it's about what you like to ride, plan to ride, preferred characteristics, and what compromises you're willing to endure. For what you describe, I think a Fandango would be a great choice. I'm no stranger to back issues and over 50. I won't own a hardtail single bike. The Fandango back wheel is so far behind me I don't get the brunt of the feedback, and we've done numerous long day rides.

Patrick and the other Ventana teams could shed light on the Ventanas; you might pose a similar inquiry about ECDMs in the ECDM thread.

Cheers,

Mike


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

ybtodd said:


> Advice/pushes either direction happily read.


I am fortunate enough to have both! As noted, it depends on your riding. That said, our Fandango sees less daylight than our ECDM 29. Both great bikes and very capable. We have raced both bikes in 60, 70 & 100 mile races and both high quality machines!

If you are going to do mostly fire roads, then maybe opt for the Fandango. If you think you'll tackle more rocky singletrack, go FS. My wife says that the thudbuster helps but is no substitute for FS on the bumpy stuff.

Any specific questions? feel free to ask.


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Put some good miles this week on...well, haven't settled on a name yet, but my stoker likes, "hindsight", "bump-n-grind", and a few others, so at this point, it's the no-name tandem.

We picked up our wheelset from Alex on Wednesday before a planned ride and dropped off the demo wheels. To recap, demo wheels were only different in hub choice, Hope vs. Chris King. I settled in for what turned into a much longer process of setting the Velocitys up tubeless than planned. For whatever reason, they were a bear, but finally succumbed (thanks Alex for letting me use your shop and tools to do the task!).

We shod the new wheels with WTB Wolverine Tubeless tires. They are supposed to be 2.5 in width, but looked narrower than the 2.2 Bronson. The tread pattern is slightly different, smaller and closer spaced knobs than the Bronson. My seat of the pants test says they roll a bit faster, but that could also be because they are setup tubeless.










We also opted to spec the 203mm Hope floating rotors to really do the VTech brakes justice. I think they look mean but, the brake and rotor combo sure will haul you down to a stop fast and, so far, with zero fade.










Lastly, my stoker just couldn't get comfy on the WTB saddle and asked me to find the same saddle on her Trek Lush - a Bontrager Evoke. Well, I did, but it's white; I didn't complain because it was free! Maybe a black one will turn up on eBay. She was much, much more comfortable on last night's trail ride.

We are starting to get comfortable with the fork as it loosens up a bit. I'm at about 15psi which gives me about 20% static sag. The IMV setting is 10 cliks out from full off (-). The fork is stable thru turns and not wallowing since finding a rebound setting that works. This is all helped, I'm sure, by running 30psi in the tubeless tires.

Long ride, for us, planned for today as I slowly build up my stokers endurance. First I need to spend some time adjusting the fr/rr derailleurs as we finally have enough miles on the cables for them to stretch and degrade performance.

Here we are as of today...maybe I'll remember to take a picture outside on today's ride rather than in the garage!









Oh yeah, we also changed the cassette to a 12-36 - that jump from 34 to 36 sure is nice to have!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We are in the market for our first tandem, trying to decide whether we need need FS, but the biggest question we have is whether the De Vinci system is worth the extra $$.

I ride off road unis, haven't ridden a bike for years. I ride anything from XC to DH. My wife is a novice biker, she can handle intermediate trails on her FS bike, but she runs platforms due to a hx of crashing clipped in. 

We have extensive experience paddling tandem whitewater and flatwater, so we are not concerned about our compatibility.

I am a strong rider, so I expect to be the motor, my wife is a cruiser and is happy taking in the sights and smelling the flowers. I like to get a workout, I ride hard; I mean why else are we riding 

Since I am perfectly happy riding unis, the real purpose for getting a tandem is so that my wife can keep pace and we can ride together. I believe my wife would ride more often if we had a tandem; I ride three times a week, whereas she rides once or twice a month. 

So, if we are going to keep things on double track and flowing easy single track, for example: Bent Creek, NC or Enterprise, TN. Is a hardtail like the Fandango an okay place to start.

I don't really want to get into a pros-con debate over ICS, but looking at De Vinci, if we are riding mellower stuff, does it make sense to splurge for the De Vinci?

We are planning a trip to GA to test ride tandems...

Thanks!


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Hi Ben,
Kinda hard for me to say but I will give it a shot. Pat and I also paddle tandem surfskis here in NJ and ride both road and MTB tandem. Our situation was very similar to yours when we started.( w/o the unicycle part). We have owned a 26er Fandango and have ridden Bent Creek on it. Tried the 29er when they first were available and its an awesome, versatile and capable tandem. We traded our Fandango for a Ventana ECDM at Pats request for comfort reasons over the occasional times we ride rocky terrain. We are very pleased with our choice. We ride with friends who ride a DaVinci. There are 2 schools of thought here....If you do not want pedaling in time with each other to be an issue than go for the DaVinci. The other advantage is being able to move the cranks independantly in tight, technical terran but that doesn't seem to be an issue for you at this time. On the other hand, we have never had an issue about pedaling linked together and it makes the bike handle more predictably at speed for us.
All that being said I personally would decide on the Fandango, its a great ride. In rocky or logover/ drops type terrain the full suspension works for us. 
Either way off road tandeming is a blast and riding it with someone you care about makes it even better. I hope this helps.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## strow (Feb 14, 2011)

Great to hear you're considering a tandem. There are many teams on this forum that can provide opinions and insights to the questions you've raised, but you're already making the best move you can by going to test ride the tandems. 

A test ride will answer most of your questions and raise a few you hadn't thought about.

Besides, who doesn't like a road trip to sample a new ride?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

NB, by your description, a hardtail would suit well. Add a thudbuster, and if needed, an extra plush seat out back. I reco it, not bc it's what we own, but because of the versatility of the bike. We ride technical trails as much as cruisers, and I'm still not feeling the burning FS need like I do on singles. You could equip a fandango easily for gravel grinding, bikepacking, etc.

As Alex pointed out (and I believe), your stoker really can't see what's ahead to time pedal strokes. You can, and you can time hers to large degree. And I have to mention service/responsiveness. DV never responded to my email inquiry. Conversely, Alex spent copious time on email and phone to be sure that all details were addresses and we felt confident with the purchase. My only regret is not getting the Rohloff first, but aside from that small detour we are super stoked. 

Have fun with the process!

Mike


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Alex will explain it all to you. He also has a very cool test track near the shop...you may know it as Blankets Creek.

About the closest we have ever come to a DaVinci is a derailed timing chain. We have spent thousands of miles on a Fandango 29 and an ECDM 26. Two great machines. Both capable of serious abuse and hardcore off-road riding.

Test ride all that you can. Take notes if needed. Make the bikes you test as equal as possible...same pedals, saddles and positioning if possible.

Welcome to mountain bikings best kept secret.

PK


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We both ride flats now, me on muni and her on FS, it's my preferred modus and for her it has been safer and more confidence inspiring.

So now for a crazy question: does anyone pedal tandems with platforms?

I realize this could be dangerous for synched pedaling, but how about with the De Vinci?

Also, I am a big fan of internal geared hubs, have ridden them on bikes and unis. Is it worth the extra cost in terms of improved gearing and durability/reduced maintenance?

We may be heading to Atlanta this weekend, just need to make the call...

Then it's just a question of justifying an expense of $3-7k :eekster:


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Flats: Check. Never used clipless on a mtn tandem, never want to. Too many sudden stunts jumping over the bars, et cetera.

Think of how much two decent MTBs cost. Fandango's a bargain.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I went over to one of our LBS and spoke to "Tim", he's a long time tandem rider, he set me straight on a few "misconceptions", so I feel like we're getting closer to balancing want with need.

The Fandango is a lot of tandem for the money, and though we'd like to spend more, the reality is that a new sport and our future in the sport need to be tempered in the begining, esp because there are two of us who need to be happy.

I do want the Rohloff, I'm pretty sure we'll add that on for all the reasons discussed (durability, maintenance, ground clearance, shifting ease). Build wise, I want to keep it simple and inexpensive, so mechanical brakes, mid grade components, a suspension post for her.

So, in comparing a CoMotion Java to a Fandango, minus the suspension fork, how do they compare in terms of handling, flex, ride quality? Is the aluminum frame stiffness a plus or will it ride "hard"? Is the suspension fork any more necessary for a gravel cruiser than a suspended rear?

What color makes my butt look bigger, white or black 

Time to call Alex.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

NB, a couple thoughts...

Rohloff will have an overall narrower range of gearing than 3 or 2 by 9 or 10. A stock Rohloff setup will not have a super low granny, unless you mod the drive yourself by swapping out chainring(s). This will likely result in a range out of mfr specs. We've had no trouble with ours, and I cannot tell you at the moment what gearing we ended up with. It's silly low. Despite how high on Rohloff I am, I will say that if a team does not plan on really mashing the pedals and wants to save some $, a typical geared setup should be fine. Especially if that team takes care to somewhat soft-pedal the shifts.

I might shave $ on some components/build, but not on brakes. Too much valuable cargo aboard, and if you end up riding looser terrain you'll be better set for rear brake-heavy technique that'll keep the front from washing out. 

Can't speak too much for the brand/model comparison you pose. Alum will have inherent stiffness of course, but can be mitigated with suspension, tires, seat post, seats, grips. I would say buck up for a susp fork even though it might be of marginal benefit on smooth terrain. You'll get more good (fun) out of your bike if you can grow your repertoire with the confidence from a well-suited build.

Have fun getting tooled up!


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Great comments by She&I. We opted for the stock Fandango DC9 with a few changes, specifically wheels and brakes. As noted, brakes are an important piece of equipment that I've learned to really trust as an integral piece of equipment. Our tandem has Hope hydraulics and 203mm rotors in the front and back. I have spent some time on the BB7s on a single bike and, in my opinion, it wasn't hard to overwhelm the brakes with half the weight.

As for the Rohloff, I don't have any experience with that setup, but I like the idea of it. That said, our stock 9sp SRAM X9 with twist shifters has been flawless for the last 500 miles of hard riding; we are about ready to replace our drive chain. Our gearing is 22/32/42 in the front and the rear cassette is an 11-36; thus, we have a really, really low gear for climbing. It's nice.

I have ridden the Co-Motion Java that Alex has setup as a demo at his shop. It's really a neat bike, but a totally different bike than the Fandango. It is a steel frame vs. the Fandango's aluminum frame and the geometry is completely different, too. The head angle is quite a bit slacker and slower turning vs the steeper, quick steering fandango. I think the Java would be a great rails-to-trails bike with touring gearing that would be capable of an occasional smooth dirt path, but not much more. Whereas the Fandango is a true mtn bike that could be run with a narrow, slick tire on paths, or full on knobbies for a trail ride. 

Additionally, I think you got some good advice about getting a suspension fork for the front and a thudbuster for the rear. A good fork will have a lockout that will be ideal for smoother path riding but have the ability to absorb bumps on the trail. Further, the inability to lift the front wheel while riding on a tandem might make having a suspension fork a smart idea on any tandem other than a road only tandem. 

Anywho, have fun shopping. Alex is a great guy to work with and will take all the time necessary to figure it out. If you want to read about our buying experience, or at least some of it, check out our fledgling blog - tandemramblings.blogspot.com


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

We do not ride flats. Off-road has been Shimano DX on the ECDM and some LX level Shimano when we had the Fandango.

In your opening post, you mentioned riding Bent Creek. Having ridden there, I would suggest staying with a more off-road focused machine such as the Fandango. 

Then again, if you only desire less technical trails, and most double track, the Fandango is a overly capable.

The downside in all of this is that if you do step away from a proven and well regarded performer like the Fandango, the Co-Mo may be a lot less used.

Co-Motion builds a high quality product. Just be sure the product is designed for the task you are asking it to accomplish.

In my personal opinion, discounting handling, a gusseted headtube to frame downtube is very important off-road. If the Co-Mo lacks this detail, it would be a pretty basic off-road machine or touring bike in this house. But that is us and how we ride.

On an off-road tandem, the tube cluster at the lower headtube is stressed from impacts. Suspension fork or not.

Alex will listen and steer you in the best direction.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> So now for a crazy question: does anyone pedal tandems with platforms?


We ride platforms. I grew up on BMX and never switched to clipless. On the offroad tandem we both ride platforms, and I feel it's saved our bacon a number of times. On the road tandem I still ride platforms (easier to deal with stop-and-waits at signal lights and the like, and I did try clipless there for a bit) up front but my stoker rides clipless, as she's used to it on her road singly.

Virtually every other tandem team rides clipless. I ride what works for me.



Nurse Ben said:


> Is the suspension fork any more necessary for a gravel
> cruiser than a suspended rear?


The question you should ask, and PMK is suggesting: Are you only EVER going to ride this on gravel? If you guys enjoy the tandem experience on gravel, how long will it be until you look to dirt? And then singletrack? 

The money is well-spent. Our ECdM was more capable than we were for a long while. Then we got better/faster and have even more fun.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

If you buy a tandem for easy cruising on gravel paths and rail trails, you will inevitably want to take it on sweet singletracks in the future. Make sure you buy something that allows you to use it on whatever you might graduate to in the future. Hardtail is fine for most especially with a thudbuster. Stoker can't see all the bumps. Front suspension is highly recommended. We have been satisfied with bb7 brakes. We ride mostly singletracks so speeds are lower, but we do have long downhills (we live in Park city UT).
I do believe good hydros would be even better but we haven't had any issues. 8' rotors a must. Aluminum frame should be fine. the length of the bike and the weight of the riders will negate any harshness. Enjoy shopping Alex is great to work with.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We got a large Fandango, basic edition, changed tires to Ardent 2.4', added some ergo grips, opted for the Thudbuster, and went with TRP Spyre mechanical disc brakes. 

Alex was hesitant to try the Spyres as they are new and untested on tandems, but I was willing to ba guinepig 

My wife loves it, she's actually looking forward to our next ride, probably hit up Bent Creek next weekend.

And, a Tandem will fit inside an Element with the front wheel removed!


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Congrats on pulling the trigger, NB! Enjoy the courtship...


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## steadypedaler (Sep 8, 2013)

*Been away from tandems for awhile..............I'm Baaaaaaaaaack.*

Hi all. New to the forum, not to tandems. Had Santana mountain and road tandems for years. Enjoyed the road but loved the off road. Living in SoCal at the time there was no shortage of great riding spots. Now I know some of you guys think you have great stokers, but I had the best. If we failed to clear an obstacle I could expect to hear "Re-do". And since I thought of my stoker as 'She who must be obeyed', we would try again. If I messed up a shift to the 'little' ring she would power us through on the 'middle' ring. Madeline and I were riding our single bikes in the San Bernardino Mtns with a group of friends and she went over the edge and suffered a spinal cord injury. She passed away a year later from complications. When I think back, some of my most cherished memories are of the time we spent together on the tandem we called 'the Evil Twin'. When I receive the Fandango Alex is putting together for me, the first thing going on it is the 'Evil Twin 2' sticker.


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Welcome back! Sorry to hear of your loss.After 42 years of marriage my stoker and I are quite inseparable. I hope you receive a lot of enjoyment and good memories from your new tandem.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

steady-P, power to you for enduring that unimaginable loss. Way to lead by example. 

And, welcome back to the big bikes. ET2 sounds like a nice hat tip to your old sidekick. Salute!

Mike/Moria


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We are gradually refining our basic Fandango set up, wider bars (740mm) and shorter stem (75mm, 7 deg) for me, Mary bar and snack bag for the stoker. I also bumped the Thudbuster from blue/blue to gray/blue with a 1/4" preload, it seems it wasn't springing up when she did the thigh death grip when standing, so she was bouncing us down the trail 

We are riding stuff that is waaay harder than I anticipated, kind makes me think we should have sprung for the Ventana, BUT the stoker isn't complaining and the big wheels stick to the ground just fine. Maybe someday...

I really like the WB Twin Loop fork, though it was a bit stiff at first with 100psi, I have gotten comfortable with 80psi which allows me to use the full range of compression settings. I don't feel that we are overly soft and we have not bottomed out the fork. I'd say that with the flex we got from this fork, I'd not want to run a lighter weight single crown fork.

Ardent 2.4 EXO tubed front and rear, I know them well from my muni riding, had considered Hans Dampf Pacestars, but the Ardents we available, so far they are doing the job. We're running ~28psi and this seems to be a nice balance, no tire rolling of consequence, but still soft enough to grip rocks. I had condidered tubeless, but I don't see the need unless we ride where there are thorns. Tubeless save 150gm per tire and increase the sidewall flex, so you end up running higher pressures, so I say that if ain't broke, no need to fix it. So far we have not come close to a pinch flat.

Against everyone's advice we are riding flat pedals, Nuke Proof Electrons (same as Deity), nylon low profile, wide base, with socket screw pins, I add nuts to the pins to make fauz studs. We both ride flats exclusively, me on unis and her on FS bikes, so it doesn't feel wierd. So far we haven't had any problems, she's lost her foot a couple times and it was no big deal.

I would not hesitate to recommend riding flats, it is a whole lot easier to start and stop, no finding the cleat and also no cleat to rock slippage. We have done some major rock crawling and longish (fiteen to twenty minute) single track climbs, not once did we wish we have clips. I ride Teva The Links and she rides Five Ten Impacts.

I am still playing with bar height, raised the stem last night and flipped it to positive rise, I gained ~30mm, so I'll see this weekend if it relieves the pain between my shoulders and in my hands. I realize some shoulder pain and hand pain is from getting into shape for biking; uni riding uses different upper body muscles.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

NurseBen

As a team, you need to find what works for you. Bike setup, whether pedal style or bar position really does matter most to the person logging the miles. I have seen road tandems, mountain tandems, and singles that were convincingly setup by owners and badged as the ultimate setup. Myself, without even swinging a leg over or turning a pedal I would be hard pressed to find comfort. So again, find your best setup, I doubt the people that post here are setback by you not heeding their advice. They want you to enjoy what you have.

I would not have buyers remorse about a Fandango. It is a very good machine that runs fast and handle well.

The Ventana is a capable ride also. 

Both are different with each having strong points and less strong points.

Have you had the opportunity to enjoy some riding with another tandem team yet?

PK


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Hey Ben, how close are you to the Chattanooga area? There are a couple of pretty good teams local within a few hours of you. Once we are back on the tandem (my stoker just had a double hernia surgery repair) in a couple of weeks, we will happily drive up and meet you guys for a ride! 

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> We are riding stuff that is waaay harder than I anticipated...we are riding flat pedals...


I see the connection here 

Nice work getting dialed in, NB. It comforts me that you guys are diving into tech terrain and having fun. Rubber down, grins up!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

> Hey Ben, how close are you to the Chattanooga area?


We live in Knoxville, so close enough to Chattanooga to meet for a ride at Raccoon Mtn or Enterprise, just give me a hollar by PM and we can exchange contact info.

We would love to ride with other tandem teams, but the ones I know are mostly focused on road riding, though there is a team in Maryville that I can probably meet for a ride at some point.

Last weekend we rode with some biking friends, they trashed us, riding tech trails, we just couldn't keep up unless the trail was climbing and fairly smooth.

They did stop to watch us, esp when we were attempting a steep rocky climb 

This weekend we're heading to Asheville for a munifest, but we'll squeeze in a tandem ride or two at Bentcreek, NC.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

If you get the chance this weekend, take the tandem over to DuPont. Way cool trails for tandems there!
And let us know when you ride Enterprise. If it's a Sunday, we might join you (Sundays are our only day off).


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

All this Southeast US, but 10 hours North of us makes me want to move...I so tired to convince the stoker we needed to get out of Florida.

If only I had those winning powerball numbers...a nice big corporate jet, bike racks in the back to pick you folks and your gear up at a local airport, and then we fly west to kick the butts of the west coast teams, until we can't breathe, fall over and gasp for air.

I asked about the possibility for Jeanne and I to spend Thanksgiving as a riding weekend in North Georgia / NC / SC. Her answer, "it's end of month closing for the accounting department". Where is her priorities!

PK


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

PMK said:


> If only I had those winning powerball numbers...a nice big corporate jet, bike racks in the back to pick you folks and your gear up at a local airport, and then we fly west to *kick the butts of the west coast teams*, until we can't breathe, fall over and gasp for air.


If you're gonna dream, go big


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Still doing some minor tweaking, though I did figure out why things felt so twitchy: Narrow bars.

I swapped out the 680mm to a 740mm bar and a shorter stem (75, then a 90), which gave me way more control and reduced the twitchiness a whole bunch. With the wide bars I was really able to "throw it around", BUT I was getting some wrist pain not relieved with Erg grips or tweaks to my riding position, SO I bought some On One Fleegle bars 

Cool name, "Fleegle", but even cooler design, kinda in between a Mary bar and a standard riser bar, with a nice bit of flare and an offset mount so it "sorta" approximates a normal hand position. I went off on a ride without a round the block test, and lo and behold the bar offset is not enough, so my stem was really long and I felt super stretched for the whole ride, DOH!

I just got a shorter stem, now running a 60mm stem with 7deg rise, this places my bars in a comfortable reach and I feel like I have the power and control balanced. The Fleegles are a little narrow at 720mm, but with the substantial flare they don't feel too narrow; I may add extenders to make them 740mm.

I you like a flared bar, but find the Mary to be excessively flared, check out On Ones Fleegle, they have then on sale in the USA, two versions are available, the Pro and standard. The Pro is narrower, the standard is 720mm and is easilly shortened with a pope cutter. The colors are varied, I got silver because it was on sale 

Another little tidbit I learned: Have a creaking EBB? Try rotating the EBB 180degrees and tightening in a clockwise direction. A buddy at the LBS suggested this when I explained how I had tried everything to calm the creaking, and lo and behold it worked like a champ! It did require a seat adjustment, but who cares, as long as it stops creaking!!!

Riding both days this weekend, trying to take advantage of the sunny warm weather before winter rains hit.


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Bump I got that itch again....
Talked to Alex the other day and got me thinking of going 29" instead of dumping more cash into the C-dale...
Anyone looking into getting a 29" ECDM and need to dump the HT???


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

XC Mike said:


> Bump I got that itch again....
> Talked to Alex the other day and got me thinking of going 29" instead of dumping more cash into the C-dale...
> Anyone looking into getting a 29" ECDM and need to dump the HT???


Not sure on what budget you have...I would be looking into an ECDM 650 or whatever they call it. Hope to get a chance for a short test ride in a few weeks.

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Can't wait for Alex to post "Just Built"  :thumbsup:
Here's a question for you Guys 
WB Single vs Double Crown forks...
Team is about 290 lbs No Big drop offs or jumping just XC type riding


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Mike,

As I mentioned to you in a PM, we've recently demo'd a few bikes - one of which was a new ECDM with a White Brothers dual crown fork w/32mm stanchions. For reference, we're a bit smaller than you guys with a team weight of 270-275. I was initially concerned that the the dual crown wouldn't give the turning radius in the tight trees, but was pleasantly surprised that we had no issues; the local demo trail (Rope Mill) has some very tight, decreasing radius, 180deg switchbacks. I felt that the fork was farily well damped and that the dual crown was a nice offset to the 32mm stanchions.

When I was in the shop, Alex showed me a new fork that was in from MRP in a 34mm stanchion, single crown. It looked goooood.... in fact, it looked good enough that I hope to pull off the Fox that I'm running and install one for a comparison (Oh Alex.....) to the Fox. Although unauthorized, we are using a Fox Float 34mm, tapered steerer fork that I spaced down from 150mm to 130mm in travel and replaced the float damper with a FIT damper. We've had zero issues running that fork but, we're a light team. I know that PMK runs a 36mm on his ECDM and I believe that ds1299 is also running a Fox without issues. But, that's your call and not something Alex can sell.

My opinion would be to steer clear of the older WB Magic 100 single crown platform; we just couldn't get it to work for us - hence the Fox. The WB dual crown was a nice riding fork and I'd run that all day long. Check into the new MRP single crown...that looks like it has the makings to be a weiner!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Correction, PMK runs a Fox 40 Kashima DH fork on the ECDM, modified for less travel and more spring rate. 

I hope you guys sort out what you need, but the 40 is by far the best performing fork I have ever ridden on bicycle. It it smooth enough when telescoping that it may be better than the highly modified fork on my KTM250.

Th 40 is not an approved fork. However, it has been a real performer in all regards and has never been a concern to land front low if the bike becomes airborn.

When we owned our Fandango, I had it setup with an ATC fork that had some mods done to it. That is an approved fork. Considering that any feature on the trail when riding a tandem is basically a controlled crash to get over, I have always considered the fork structure critical, especially in regards to tube diameters. The ATC is larger than a 40, but close. With a strong 29 wheel, we seldom backed off to get through stuff. Sometimes it was not pretty, but we rode that setup a lot and had very few problems. The fork i extremely simple in design, and wih a few mods very smooth and reliable.

I must have a found spot in my heart for the ATC forks...I have 2 complete ATC forks sitting under the workbench in the garage.

All the best in what you choose.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

To clarify something, is White Brothers suspension no longer offered since MRP is the parent company of WB. Or has MRP started a second child company to make suspension? Kind of a full performance line and a consumer line of suspension. I don't honestly know, that's why I ask.

PK


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Hey Paul, sorry for the confusion on the 40 mm vs 36. I knew there was something not right about 36 but I couldn't recall that it was a 40. 

As for MRP, they are the parent company of what used to be the White Brothers line of forks. As of this year, MRP has rolled up the white brothers name into the MRP name and and now offers their new forks only under the name MRP. So, going forward, you won't see a white brothers labeled fork that I know of; Alex can probably give more detail. Hope that helps.

Look forward to seeing you guys in a couple of weeks. 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

mhopton said:


> Hey Paul, sorry for the confusion on the 40 mm vs 36. I knew there was something not right about 36 but I couldn't recall that it was a 40.
> 
> As for MRP, they are the parent company of what used to be the White Brothers line of forks. As of this year, MRP has rolled up the white brothers name into the MRP name and and now offers their new forks only under the name MRP. So, going forward, you won't see a white brothers labeled fork that I know of; Alex can probably give more detail. Hope that helps.
> 
> ...


That's what I guessed as far as WB vs MRP. See you soon and will only see your backside...

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

mhopton said:


> Mike,
> 
> As I mentioned to you in a PM, we've recently demo'd a few bikes - one of which was a new ECDM with a White Brothers dual crown fork w/32mm stanchions. For reference, we're a bit smaller than you guys with a team weight of 270-275. I was initially concerned that the the dual crown wouldn't give the turning radius in the tight trees, but was pleasantly surprised that we had no issues


Thanks Mike good to hear...
I guess I will stick to the DC we don't ride many tight places


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Time for a Bump!!
More details and Pic's when FedEx drops Her off on Wednesday







A Big Thanks To Alex @ MTB Tandems for his Help and Work :thumbsup:


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## mhopton (Nov 27, 2005)

Woot woot!!! Time to get it dirty....! Man, we love ours...


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Thanks Mike
We just got back from Big Bear with the Fandango and all I can say is Wow!!!
Getting some pictures together and I will post a video soon


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

Mike that is a great looking bike! I wish Laura had longer legs so she could have a LT Thudbuster. Alex was concerned we would have to get a Ventana because Laura is only 4'10'. That was one reason we made the trip to check out the bikes. It is great that Alex offers the demos and I was glad we could make it in a hard one day drive.

She fit the Fandango with a ST Thudbuster and we were pleased. With what we ride locally we really do not need FS. 

Get some more pics and I always enjoy watching tandem video! I know it will seem like a "eternity" wait to get the bike from Alex.


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

xxxx


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

mhopton said:


> Woot woot!!! Time to get it dirty....! Man, we love ours...


Great pic! You guys are so lucky to have a trail system right outside your door. We have to drive to the Houston area ( 90 minute drive ) to find some trails. If we make it back to pickup our new ride we will try to get together! You will just have to take it easy on us "old folks". We are more "sea level" kind of riders! lol


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

ALM said:


> Mike that is a great looking bike! I wish Laura had longer legs so she could have a LT Thudbuster. Alex was concerned we would have to get a Ventana because Laura is only 4'10'. That was one reason we made the trip to check out the bikes. It is great that Alex offers the demos and I was glad we could make it in a hard one day drive.
> 
> She fit the Fandango with a ST Thudbuster and we were pleased. With what we ride locally we really do not need FS.
> 
> Get some more pics and I always enjoy watching tandem video! I know it will seem like a "eternity" wait to get the bike from Alex.


The wait will be worth it!!
I can't tell you how many calls and emails Alex got from me lol...


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Just added some Sexy...


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

ALM said:


> Get some more pics and I always enjoy watching tandem video! I know it will seem like a "eternity" wait to get the bike from Alex.


Not sure if this is going to work...
I don't have much skills when it comes to working on videos, This is my daughters first time riding Big Bear @ 7,000 feet and she has only been riding for a few months now...
I will tell you she has improved 100%

Big Bear 2014 - YouTube

Big Bear Part 2 - YouTube


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

Nice vids Mike. Did you have a chest strap for the camera? 

What model cateye is that?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ALM said:


> Great pic! You guys are so lucky to have a trail system right outside your door. We have to drive to the Houston area ( 90 minute drive ) to find some trails. If we make it back to pickup our new ride we will try to get together! You will just have to take it easy on us "old folks". We are more "sea level" kind of riders! lol


FWIW, and not to stray to far from the topic, I have heard rumor that Alex also has a trail advocacy bone in him and was a big part of those trails getting access and being built.

Jeanne and I appreciate good trails nearby. All through the 90's, one of the best trails in Florida was adjacent to our neighborhood. Circa 2001, the trail was taken. Homes and a double strip mall was built. Now 15 years later, most of the strip mall has failed because new ones were built in better nearby locations, and the homes which sold initially as really overpriced for the location, have seen many deserted for declared bankruptcy or left for foreclosure.

Good local trails are a blessing, cherish what you have.

PK


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

I heard the same Paul. While at Woody's Mountain Bikes in Helen I told them Alex said Hello. It seemed to be a blast from the past name! Woody's wife said that Alex was a pioneer in advocating mountain biking and getting trails built.

We do not have a trail near us. I am going to join the Houston group Ghorba.com

Greater Houston off road biking assoc. and see if I can get help/learn what to do to get some trails built around here. We have 2 nice LBS that probably sell more mtb and hybrid than road bikes. There are plenty of forest here in southeast texas to get some trails built. We have about 55 acres near the river and marsh in the family. Nothing on it, so I may just make one on it to start!


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

ALM said:


> Nice vids Mike. Did you have a chest strap for the camera?
> 
> What model cateye is that?


Thanks Allen yes that was with the chest mount I didn't have much time trying different shots because I was showing my daughter the ropes when riding off road...

I'm putting together a new mount that will work with the rear rack mounts on the Fandango and to make use of one of the bottle mounts.
Trying to get a view like that on page #4 post #6 in the C-Dale Thread.

The Cateye is a Padrone it's for us Over 40 Guys that can't see the small numbers


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## sportsnapper (Apr 24, 2014)

Just had this delivered today - it's a 3d printed GoPro mount that mounts on the saddle rails. Made in the UK by RaceWare Direct - that make lots of really nice 3d printed accessories (and some of those are printed in titanium).

View attachment 914605


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## switchbacktrog (May 10, 2013)

See you've got the Thudbuster then Gareth . If we can get down to meet you at Swinley next month, there should be some good tandem videos to post on here :thumbsup:.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

At least two Fandangos were on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route this year. Us on our Tourista and Joe from Wisconsin on a DC-9 with one son on the back. 

It was cool and surprising seeing another Fandango out there. Got to share my custom BB spanner


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

She&I said:


> At least two Fandangos were on the Great Divide Mountain Bike Route this year. Us on our Tourista and Joe from Wisconsin on a DC-9 with one son on the back.
> 
> It was cool and surprising seeing another Fandango out there. Got to share my custom BB spanner


Did you get a chance to snap any pic's for Us?


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

*The Fandango Tandem Cam Mount*

Time to get out and test...


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

The mounts look like fun, xcm. We used a helmet mount Contour with some fun results and may try more this fall. Lookin fwd to your results. On the divide I'm not shooting aside from a phone shot here or there. Posting them via phone not easy. There are pics of our bike in our ride report thread in Passion forum, and I'll eventually post others. Cheers...


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

She&I said:


> The mounts look like fun, xcm. We used a helmet mount Contour with some fun results and may try more this fall. Lookin fwd to your results. On the divide I'm not shooting aside from a phone shot here or there. Posting them via phone not easy. There are pics of our bike in our ride report thread in Passion forum, and I'll eventually post others. Cheers...


Thanks S&I I did take some video last week in Ventura on the beach with my Daughter, it's great for smooth trails and all but for Off Road use I'm not really sure how good it will work yet....


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Gotcha, Mike. I agree, the low side mount is in a pretty sketchy spot for a rig that takes wide turns. Top-of-helmet vids get a little floaty, and they "smooth out" the trail, but they make the exposure look horrendous! Here's a snippet from the Santa Anas, Cleveland National Forest down in OC:

http://www.ousleycreative.com/misc/PassionLives1.m4v

It's like a baby Nordhoff Ridge...you guys have the goods up there in LPNF! I'll be up there in a couple weeks; not with the big bike, but hoping to hit Nordhoff again. Cheers!


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

There's good riding in Los Padres? I've lived in Ventura or TO for 25 years and have never really been up there, much less on our tandem. We've been quite happy with riding in the Santa Monicas, but some actual forest would be a neat change.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Okayfine said:


> There's good riding in Los Padres? I've lived in Ventura or TO for 25 years and have never really been up there, much less on our tandem. We've been quite happy with riding in the Santa Monicas, but some actual forest would be a neat change.


I don't know the place well, but have ridden Nordhoff Ridge above Ojai a few times. I think trails like Gridley and Pratt are fantastic (we did Gridley on our tandem). Even the fire roads are pretty. LPNF is massive. It includes Mount Piños, which is a popular must-do area that'll blow your socks off. There is a Tour de Los Padres sufferfest that runs yearly now.

My pal Mikie lives up in Frazier Park and rides all over up there. He would be a great resource for more trailage there, including lots of more obscure stuff. Mikie's web site is here:
Southern California Mountain Bike Forum
The guy is rife with MTB passion, so don't be shy in asking him any Qs. I hope you can get up there when it cools down and then tell us about it!

PS: At 10K', Piños is good to go now


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Still trying to come up with a solid frame mount...

Fandango Mount - YouTube


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

We Just Love To Fandango :thumbsup:

Fandango Mount - YouTube

Fullerton Loop 9/23/14 - YouTube


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Mount test extravaganza! Fun stuff, xcM! Crank on, captain


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

She&I said:


> Mount test extravaganza! Fun stuff, xcM! Crank on, captain


Thanks She&I :thumbsup:


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

*New Fandango!*















Excited we got to pickup our new Fandango DC 9 week of Thanksgiving. We were so excited that we forgot to take any pics out on the trails. The Grinch green color is so vibrant that the pic does not do it justice. Hope to get out some this weekend.

Merry early Christmas to us!

Special thanks to Alex and Kim Knutt and Michael and Carin Hopton for making our visit to Georgia so much fun. Cannot wait to make our first AORTA.


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Congrats! Looks awesome. 


And, yeah, Grinch Green can be hard to photograph.


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

Nice looking machine! Welcome to the club!


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Better photo of the color...


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ALM, nice...Has the MT3000 sold yet?

If not, when you get home, ride the two back to back on the same short section of trail.

You will smile at why you spent the $$$.

Those are truly a great machine.

PK


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Love the color, but it's your head tube I'm truly envious of.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

XC Mike said:


> We Just Love To Fandango :thumbsup:
> 
> Fandango Mount - YouTube
> 
> Fullerton Loop 9/23/14 - YouTube


Nice! Congrats on the new bike!

The seat-tube camera location gives an interesting view of the fork action.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

She&I said:


> Love the color, but it's your head tube I'm truly envious of.


Whoa! That's not the kind of thing I usually hear one dude say to another...


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

reamer41 said:


> Whoa! That's not the kind of thing I usually hear one dude say to another...


Yea, once you've been forced to spoon with another guy for warmth, stuff like this doesn't even register. Now, if the guy called himself "reamer" I would have had second thoughts.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

As well you should!
Ha!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

reamer41 said:


> Whoa! That's not the kind of thing I usually hear one dude say to another...


rotflmao


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

Hi Paul, 
We left the Cannondale with Alex to sell. However we did do ride when we test rode back in August then rode the Cannondale and it soooooooooo easy to feel the difference. Yes lots of $$ but worth it and Alex's customer service and being a overall good guy makes it easier to turn loose of those green backs!



PMK said:


> ALM, nice...Has the MT3000 sold yet?
> 
> If not, when you get home, ride the two back to back on the same short section of trail.
> 
> ...


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

TandemNut said:


> Better photo of the color...


That is what I am talking about! We have a Christmas ride / decorated tandem contest this Sunday in Houston. We are going with a Grinch theme. If we win I will post pics!


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> Whoa! That's not the kind of thing I usually hear one dude say to another...


Lmao....... and we are glad to be part of the Fandango club. The Cannondale will be missed. My wife almost teared up leaving it behind. I am so lucky that she really does enjoy riding tandem.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ki5ka said:


> rotflmao


Yes, I read those two posts and got really scared.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ALM said:


> Lmao....... and we are glad to be part of the Fandango club. The Cannondale will be missed. My wife almost teared up leaving it behind. I am so lucky that she really does enjoy riding tandem.


My stoker was pretty torn selling our MT3000 also. Lot of great adventure on that machine.

I should buy your old bike, cut it up and graft on a Super V rear suspension. Actually started drawing the plans years ago. The ECDM changed all that.

How much is the asking price?

PK


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

PMK said:


> Mt stoker was pretty torn selling our MT3000 also. Lot of great adventure on that machine.
> 
> I should buy your old bike, cut it up and graft on a Super V rear suspension. Actually started drawing the plans years ago. The ECDM changed all that.
> 
> ...


Funny you say that. I've been fantasizing grafting the rear end from a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT onto a tandem front.

Maybe I'll be happier with the Ventana rear suspension if/when I get a shock working better.

Paul, do you know where I would be able to find or have made a 750 or 800 pound coil spring (cane creek or Manitou)?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

reamer41 said:


> Funny you say that. I've been phantasy zing grafting the rear end from a Santa Cruz Tallboy LT onto a tandem front.
> 
> Maybe I'll be happier with the Ventana rear suspension if/when I get a shock working better.
> 
> Paul, do you know where I would be able to find or have made a 750 or 800 pound coil spring (cane creek or Manitou)?


Do some searching for an Eibach Speed Spring or Mountain Speed Springs. These were common years ago and a very good spring.

I have a box of springs in those rates but the stroke will be too short.

They were bought up by MRP so maybe ask them if they know who is sitting on them, if anyone.

Might try Avalanche, but doubt they will go that much rate on the length. What about oem FOX?

PK


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

*Christmas Fandango*

Well we decorated our new Grinch green Fandango and were chosen the winners at a local tandem Christmas party. We won a very cool set of tumblers with tandems on each glass (thanks, houseoftandems.com). I must of had a real lapse in judgement to let Laura talk me into this!There was a 15 mile scavenger hunt road ride..... not fun on the mtb tandem and competing with road tandems.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Nice getup! Bike looks great...but I'm wishing for more head tube in that shot.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

ALM, very unique use of a great machine. Hope your family had a great holiday and as I can tell, you enjoyed the Christmas Party.

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

ALM said:


> View attachment 944082
> View attachment 944083
> 
> 
> ...


Sweet Congrats on the New Ride Guys!!


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

XC Mike said:


> Just added some Sexy...
> View attachment 914316
> View attachment 914317


Mike, I sent you a pm.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We may be selling our 2013 Large Fandango 29er, pending a decision on buying something else... 

We're in Eastern Washington.


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## malaclemys (Oct 22, 2010)

*Timing ring change*

I just conducted some much overdue maintenance on our Fandango, replacing the timing rings. We upgraded to the hard anodized unos and much like the first time you change the derailleur hanger, it isn't exactly plug and play. I pulled the cranks and loosened the lockrings without event. The old rings slipped right off their splines. I wiped the cranks down and brushed the threads and points of engagement to prepared those surfaces to meet their new timing rings. I tried the first ring on the captains cranks. It didn't fit. Hrmm, I tried the other ring on those same cranks, no better. Then I tried them both on the stoker cranks. I struck out again. After some guidance from Alex that they would fit with some convincing I resorted to the Dremel. A little shave off the ends of the "fingers" and things were looking like they could fit. I lubed up the splines, wiggled the ring down as far as it would go, and chased it home with the lock ring. It is solid now. I hope they come off easier than they went on. Now if you really want to open a debate, grease or no grease on the spindle taper?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Grease and less torque

PK


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Time for a Fandango Bump :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Selling our Fandango 29er: Fandango 29er Tandem, Large Frame, WB Loop 100mm Fork, SRAM 2 x 10 - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Located in Central Washington State


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

*Huntsville State Park*

Our ride last week. Lots of roots and some elevation....at least for Southeast Texas!


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Nice shot Allen...
I guess I need to get some Action shots next lol....


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

Nice silhouette shot! You need to sign up on Facebook. 

Mtb tandems page

Tandem cycling

And tandem mountain biking

I think the last one is correct name. Tandem cycling is mostly road.
We had a friend shoot pics with my iPhone ascee came down that rooty path.


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

Tandem bicycle

Tandem mountain bikes

Sorry


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

ALM said:


> Our ride last week. Lots of roots and some elevation....at least for Southeast Texas!


That fist one! Wow, that's one steep downhill!


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Nice pic, XCM.

Sixty seconds of Fandango passion


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

reamer41 said:


> that fist one! Wow, that's one steep downhill!


lol. 😝


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Thanks Mike & Allen....
The GF does the Facebook thing, I never really got into that stuff lol....


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

XC Mike said:


> Thanks Mike & Allen....
> The GF does the Facebook thing, I never really got into that stuff lol....


Mike, I posted that on our FB pages, hope that was ok. Great video - please do more!
In fact, you need to come to the next AORTA and get lots of footage and make a full-length feature...


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

TandemNut said:


> Mike, I posted that on our FB pages, hope that was ok. Great video - please do more!
> In fact, you need to come to the next AORTA and get lots of footage and make a full-length feature...


So many trails and so little time! Glad you liked the snippet, no issue cross-posting. We have an outing in the works for later this year which could stoke some passion, so I'm saving my pennies. Onward!...

theotherMike


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## andrusc (Sep 13, 2010)

I put a Gravity Vidar (made by Innova) tire on the front of my Fandango that has a White Brothers Magic 100 (single crown) fork. What an improvement to handling and bump absorption over narrower tires I've had on the bike. The tire is labeled 29x3.0 but it seems slightly narrower than a 29x3.0 Surly Knard. It has moderately-sized knobs -- they wrap generously around the tire and dig in strongly on a lean. I've tried them on hard pack, chunk, and slime mud and now problems. I prefer the grip to the Panaracer Rampage (2.35), which until now had been my favorite tire.

The tire is light but the sidewalls aren't flimsy. On the Sun MTX 33 rims they are egg shaped but they didn't squirm when I dropped the pressure down to 17 psi. I wouldn't hesitate to use these tubeless.

This switch was well worth the $40 I paid for the tire (Amazon). I would put one on the back but too tight. Two of my single bikes will also get this tire in the front. It fits in a Vassago rigid fork and a Fox Float (2011 model) but not a Reba RLT (2012 model). It would fit both front and back on my Singular fat bike but the 80mm rims would swallow this tire.


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## andrusc (Sep 13, 2010)

edit: "no problems" instead of "now problems"


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## XC Mike (Sep 26, 2004)

Why Not it's a Fandango!!!


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## andrusc (Sep 13, 2010)

Several times I've had the chain drop between the smallest chain ring and the frame and lodge in there tight. Because it is hard for two people to immediately slack off on the pressure when this happens it usually means links get mangles or the smallest chain ring gets bent. Yesterday's bad shift meant a long walk back to the car for me. The frame is a Fandamgo about 5 years old and the crankset is a Middleburn triple. Do you have any ideas how I might install a device that would keep the chain from binding in that slot should I ever again blow a shift and unship the chain to the left?


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## Team Breeze - Screamcycle (Jun 26, 2010)

Try something like the 3rd Eye Chain Watcher for ~$10 that clamps to the stokers seat tube and prevents the chain from derailing to inside.


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## andrusc (Sep 13, 2010)

The 3rd Eye Chain Watcher doesn't seem to have good reviews. Problems with it scratching the frame and falling apart. This seems to work for a lot of folks though: N-Gear Jump Stop Chain Guide > Components > Drivetrain, Brakes and Pedals > Chain Tensioners and Guides | Jenson USA

Worth a try for $10.


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Are you sure the lower limit screw on the front mech is adjusted correctly? Might it could take a little more inward movement while still allowing 2-1 changes?

FWIW, when I shift down chainrings (as opposed to the rear cassette) I will call "Down." which means to my stoker to let off pedaling torque. I've done the same, then shift, then reapply power once I hear the normal chain noise.


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## andrusc (Sep 13, 2010)

I have the lower limit screw set so the edge of the cage just brushes the chain leftward. The chain unships infrequently and usually during a desperation shift involving lots of frame twist and crank torque. On a single bike one can anticipate problems with a desperation shift and quickly let off the power but on the tandem my stoker can't sense the upcoming situation and she is still powering-on, which usually means the chain gets stuck good between the bearing and the small chainring. I notice that most modern frames are designed so that space is greater or less than the width of the chain so that an unshipped chain just needs to be fished out and put back on the chainring. Unfortunately, the spacing on this Fandango is exactly the width of the chain and it eats the chain instead.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Something's not adjusted right if it's still dropping the chain inside the small ring. Has the FD twisted slightly on the seat tube so the cage isn't exactly parallel with the chain?


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Back to andrusc's problem. Are you dumping to granny while in the middle of the cassette? With my chain length dictated by big/big+2 links, the chain loses tension if I'm in granny and mid-way down the cassette. The RD can't take up that much extra length, easy for the chain to fall off the front with the action of the FD.


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## ALM (Jul 14, 2012)

Have not posted here in a while. This was Thanksgiving Day 2015 at Dupont State Park NC. Riding off some of the turkey! Still love our Fandango DC-9 from mtbtandems.com


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