# The goverment wants to take away you 20's and 24's!



## The Agency (Jun 28, 2005)

I think this is pretty important. Read this first...http://www.vintagebmx.com/community/index.php?showtopic=27023813&st=40 Yes, it's a long read but this is important. Prices are going to raise. Small companies are going to fold. The new regulations will mostly affect completes and multi piece components.

I talked to with Bill from Supercross, heard from S&M and Bully. Some good quotes from Bill in the Vintage BMX Thread:



> Hi Everyone,
> 
> We have had many phone calls about this and I had a few people ask me to post up on Vintage, so Mike, with your permission.
> 
> ...





> I have been speaking to too many Attorney's and Industry Legal types and don't know what to make all of this yet, but there definately needs to be some kind of help for the smaller companies who have no voice.
> 
> Many of these small BMX Companies do not even know about this stuff yet.
> 
> ...


At least we are low on the list...maybe this will be the death of cheap Wal-Mart bikes? Of course nice small run 20's will now cost the same as a DH bike.



> Hi BMXers, I hope everyones christmas is NOT ruined by all this CPSC tallk. Yes, this is going to cost all of us in the biz and outside more money per bike. I am not advocating all these tests but some are not so bad, but testing spokes, nipples and valve stems ridiculous.
> 
> I just got back from china where i was working with our assemblers to get inline with all test. Short story is that is will cost between 3 and 4 thousand dollars for a complete bike to have tested be a third party accredited center. This will defintely cause problems for small run bikes. Even a bigger Co like Diamondback where I work has models that we do smaller runs of bikes. Qty under 300. Justifying these bikes to the heads will be much harder than the already hard sell of BMX racing bikes.
> 
> ...


So those cool small limited run bikes are now in danger? Everyone must ride the same bike frame...you will all be assimilated. We are BMX. Seriously, my last 3 20's were small batch frames and not production. Kuwahara has pulled out of the US!

Really? This is what our government is doing right now?

If they outlaw BMX...only Outlaws will ride BMX!


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## TortugaTonta (Jun 14, 2004)

Damn weight weenies, worried about a little lead in your bike frames.

Seriously though, are they worried little johny is going to lick his stem till he gets lead poisoning?

This just makes my head hurt.


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

This is totally rediculous. They should have a better idea on who uses the bikes out there in the world. The testing may be fine for lets say an 18" and smaller bike. Not a 24" or smaller.

How about every piece of the interior of a car needs to be tested? Kids can swallow seats, steering wheels, etc?:madman:

Looks like a lot of MTBMX will be around now..


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## The Agency (Jun 28, 2005)

Write all your Congressman and Senators here: http://capwiz.com/americanapparel/issues/alert/?alertid=12274476

Change the message and talk specifically about 24's and 20's.


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## Sombrio69 (Apr 21, 2005)

thas sum bull sh!t


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## Cornwall (Mar 28, 2007)

Does anyone know how this will effect other laws? for example, last I knew in the UK you could ride a BMX on the sidewalk as it was 20" and therefore a kids bike, but didnt require all this testing.... how will this effect use in skateparks? street sessions? etc?


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Thanks for the update - I was reading on this the other day. Erm...I better get those 3/8 axle hubs now for my old school bmx or they are going to go from being on clearence to being 600.00 a hub...WTF?


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## jimage (Dec 22, 2006)

is this gonna effect the uk?????


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

jimage said:


> is this gonna effect the uk?????


I wouldnt imagin only if the parts you buy have to come from an american distributer, or are made here. You will have to check with UK laws as far as what your countrys rules are - if you have no rules like these then I would say no. In other words, if you buy a part made in japan, from a japanese distributer then probably not. Dont quote me though, this is just a logical guess.


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## Prime8 (Apr 19, 2004)

*omgwtfnwo?*

I've been hearing about these kinds of regulations coming in for a few years now. This is really the tip of the iceberg for things that will be costing allot more in the near future.

so do we buy up spare parts now while we can still afford it??

I would write my politicians, but they are useless children playing in another world than mine :madman:


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## -.---.- (Jun 15, 2007)

Thats some dumbass stuff man. I still don't get which size wheels they'll be testing? not 26?


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

"The goverment wants to take away you 20's and 24's!"

No. They don't care either way about small bmx companies The title should read like this...

"The government wants to take away your money!"

Let's see...how much can we pillage from people following these extremely vague and complicated restrictions and procedures...or even better...let's see if we can make it so ****ing complicated that no one can follow it by the book every time and then we can make a shitload of moolah by punishing people exorbitant amounts of money for not precisely following these regs point by point. 

My question: How the **** are they enforcing this?


"And here is the kicker, anything in a retail store that has not been sold to the end user, even if it is from a production run before the new laws will have to have certifications done for the entire batch , or there is a $500,000 fine and they will seize and destroy the current inventory."

Who is "they?" The CPSC? Ya...I'm sure that they have nothing better to do than check up on relatively tiny rider-owned bmx companies constantly...the government will have to realize that there really isn't much money to be stolen from itty bitty bmx companies.

Dis is sum ******** bro...


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

whats the problem guys? if we didnt want even more government control in our lives why did we vote obama?its only going to get worse,i mean change. i thought thats what we wanted...............:thumbsup: bend over america.


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> whats the problem guys? if we didnt want even more government control in our lives why did we vote obama?its only going to get worse,i mean change. i thought thats what we wanted...............:thumbsup: bend over america.


Oh ****...I just got so caught up in CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE!!!!....I forgot that we still haven't hit rock bottom...and we can still go down...and I didn't actually know what "change" he was talking about...now I realize that it's not the "glorious flag-waving" kind of change...it's the "get raped" kind of change.


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

maybe bmx goes blkmrkt...


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)




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## ictoacoy (Jul 10, 2006)

we are all DOOMED.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Thats what I was saying in another forum, time for all the BMXers to switch over to 26" DJ's.


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

ServeEm said:


> maybe bmx goes blkmrkt...


S&M manufacturers Blkmrkt bikes.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

This doesn't make any sense, there should just be a way for bmx companies to buy pre certified material. 4130, and aluminum don't have lead in them, so make the big companies test each batch of steel or aluminum before you make a part with it, this makes much more sense than testing finished products. Same goes for paint, and anodization chemicals. If there is no lead in the raw materials it won't be in the finished product, it doesn't appear magically.


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## dirtjumper202 (May 11, 2007)

So I found an thread on it on tcub, about this and gives you a good insite I think

http://thecomeupboard.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33936


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## Sombrio69 (Apr 21, 2005)

well im no economist but i am willing to say that this is mos def the time to buy that new bike you have been wanting.

"You have until Feb. 9th to sell all your untested products to the consumer (enduser), not just to the bike shops, or on Feb. 10th it becomes illegal for shops or distributors to sell these products without the proper certificate. The fines for this and for trying to import goods into the US without the certificates is in the hundred of thousands." TCUB

i can see a lot of prts going on sale in a last ditch effort from small companies to not get butt fvcked.

how will it effect companies such as Standard Byke Co. who support production of parts and frames here in the US?


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

Well...the government needs money. We have to go bailout crazy, while still financing a war (yes, we are still in Iraq)!!! So what you gotta do is take all the money from the companies that don't have the power for a lawsuit and give it to the big money eaters so they can last another year before they need TWICE as much money to be bailed out, and maybe eventually the government will wise up...but then where's all that money? It's gone, along with those great rider-owned companies we love so much...as well as many other businesses...


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> Thats what I was saying in another forum, time for all the BMXers to switch over to 26" DJ's.


ive owned blk mrkts before, but i always rode my 20",so i sold the blk markt. that wont change.

i could ride good on the 26", hop 360s easy, but a 26" will never be on the same level as a 20". thanks to physics. they do different things well.


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## Foreveralout (Jun 20, 2008)

This is just going to lead to all the bike companies needing 17 billion dollar bailouts. looks like i'm buying a new bike in january!!!!


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## azn (Jan 30, 2008)

well, concievably, one _could_ say they're manufactured for 26" bikes...
"oh yea, see these 8 inch rise bars? this is the new fad in the 26" mtbmx crowd!"

this is ridiculous. i can understand toys that solely toddlers and small kids play with but this? the classification of bmx as a "toy" its pretty evident that its not just a "toy". beauracracy needs to take their head out of their asses and make provisions for these bikes. 
its going to be such a shame seeing small companies going bust because of this. and us riders being left with the ubiqutous mass market frame.


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## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

Couldn't they just slap on a sticker that says "Warning, this product contains a chemical known to the state of blah blah"...? even on 6061 parts lol.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

Although I really see this as complete BS and I havent read the original link but I would assume this wont pass to this extent.

IF it does, they can just re-name things. How many people have ever been to a swap-meet or flea-market and bought a "brass belt buckle" shaped perfectly to fit your fingers and with four lumps on them in strategically placed spots. Oh and you cant forget the little unscrewable nub so they really can be a belt buckle.


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## tibug (Dec 5, 2006)

CheeseSoda said:


> Couldn't they just slap on a sticker that says "Warning, this product contains a chemical known to the state of blah blah"...? even on 6061 parts lol.


Nope. Stickers cost money.


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## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

haha the decorative brass belt buckle with removable belt-buckling-stud... classic.


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## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

Well sure, but a 1/2 cent sticker is a whole lot better than $300 worth of testing.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Well, as I understand it, this isnt new, its been the works a few years now. I like many of you I am just hearing about it. Having said that, as I understand it from the OP post, its pretty much a done deal now, there just dotting the i's, crossing the t's and finalizing all the paperwork..


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## CheeseSoda (Jan 8, 2007)

desperate times call for desperate measures... BMX SUICIDE-STREET-SESSION TO THE WHITEHOUSE!!!


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## chisao (Nov 26, 2008)

Where in the ACT does it say 20 & 24-inch bikes are to be tested. I've been reading the ‘‘Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act of 2008’’ and can not find it.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I dont think they are required to specifically name bikes, if they were required to name each and every product sold in the US that is targeted for the use by small childred/kids the CPSIA would be thick as a phone book. BMX bikes however would technically fall under the act in that such items are made for use by children/kids. You follow me so far, dont quote me on any of this, and I'm no lawer - but logically speaking, I believe this is the reasoning and or similar idea used to define these new laws.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> ive owned blk mrkts before, but i always rode my 20",so i sold the blk markt. that wont change.
> 
> i could ride good on the 26", hop 360s easy, but a 26" will never be on the same level as a 20". thanks to physics. they do different things well.


I kinda retired BMX - I still have my 1997 Standard though - its sad all these companys may have to shut there doors, but on the plus side for me, if they do, and should I ever take up 20" again perhaps sizes will start to standardize again, all these new thin tubed frames wont last forever, not near as long as my frame has lasted and my frame still has ALOT of life left in it. Mabie we will see biking going back to the good ol' days of standard press-cup headsets, american BB's, and 3/8 axles, parts I still use but become more and more scarce every year. Did you know its near impossible for me to find a killer sealed 48 hole hubs with 3/8 axels to fit my old skool frame, the only company making them are G-Sport monkeys.

I have most of the original parts for my Standard in good shape still and a few NOS parts, two pairs of 6 and 4 piece strip bars, 1997 chrome NOS Standard forks with peg bosses and 990 mounts, NOS old skool Solid cranks (brand new/un-used) with 1 inch spindle, I also have a killer set of brand new un-laced Odyssey Duralectra Hazard Lites - the anodizing on them is near ceramic hard, tougher then chrome plating - I was going to sell the rims, but I think I will keep them now and pick up the G-sports next pay check, and I wont have to worry about replacing parts or paying huge prices for new stuff or all these f*cked up bullsh!t laws.


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## TheDon (Oct 18, 2005)

I am sure they will make some kind of loophole or exclusion method for BMX bikes. BMX is an olympic sport now!


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## Demo-9 (Mar 24, 2006)

I think in the end they will move away from "24 and smaller" to "16 and smaller". It is just not realistic to group 24" and 20" as a toy.


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

tibug said:


> S&M manufacturers Blkmrkt bikes.


It was a joke, I just used their spelling instead of blackmarket.


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## chisao (Nov 26, 2008)

I read the entire Bill last night because couldn’t believe this could be happening to the biking industry. And, I did find some “loopholes”, clarifications, and legal definitions, so to speak. Also, bill states specific testing procedures for the products which are not as bad as what’s being said.

Below I have listed some key components of the ACT that may or may not apply to BMX style bikes. Of course the following is my abridged interpretation of the "Act". Sorry for the long read but I feel that it is important to get this information out.

There are Exclusions for “MATERIALS OR PRODUCTS AND INACCESSIBLE COMPONENT PARTS. 

It also depends on who the product is marketed to. If the product is marked to adults, the legal verbiage seems to imply that the bill doses not apply: 
(1) DEFINED TERMS—(B) The term ‘‘children’s toy’’ means a consumer product designed or intended by the manufacturer for a child 12 years of age or younger for use by the child when the child plays. 

(iii) Whether the product is commonly recognized by consumers as being intended for use by a child of the ages specified.

(B) TOY THAT CAN BE PLACED IN A CHILD’S MOUTH.— For purposes of this section a toy can be placed in a child’s mouth if any part of the toy can actually be brought to the mouth and kept in the mouth by a child so that it can be sucked and chewed. If the children’s product can only be licked, it is not regarded as able to be placed in the mouth. If a toy or part of a toy in one dimension is smaller than 5 centimeters, it can be placed in the mouth.


The testing procedures are also fairly simple. The manufacturer only has to submit “samples” of each product. This means that they don’t send in each completed bike to be tested for lead content. Just samples of the product. Be it a sample of the tubing, the paint, etc.
‘‘(2) THIRD PARTY TESTING REQUIREMENT.—Effective on the dates provided in paragraph (3), before importing for consumption or warehousing or distributing in commerce any children’s product that is subject to a children’s product safety rule, every manufacturer of such children’s product (and the private labeler of such children’s product if such children’s product bears a private label) shall— 

‘‘(A) submit sufficient samples of the children’s product, or samples that are identical in all material respects to the product, to a third party conformity assessment body accredited under paragraph (3) to be tested for compliance with such children’s product safety rule; and 

‘‘(B) based on such testing, issue a certificate that certifies that such children’s product complies with the children’s product safety rule based on the assessment of a third party conformity assessment body accredited to conduct such tests. A manufacturer or private labeler shall issue either a separate certificate for each children’s product safety rule applicable to a product or a combined certificate that certifies compliance with all applicable children’s product safety rules, in which case each such rule shall be specified.


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## spazzy (Aug 15, 2004)

lol i just got the image of a little kid trying to put a 20 wheel in their mouth or take a bite out of a frame or something lol


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## chisao (Nov 26, 2008)

spazzy said:


> lol i just got the image of a little kid trying to put a 20 wheel in their mouth or take a bite out of a frame or something lol


I hade the same image in my head.lol.


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## TheDon (Oct 18, 2005)

Maybe you will just have to go to Mexico and Canada to buy your BMX products. 

And smuggle them in across the border, Cheech and Chung style!


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## norcaldj (Aug 6, 2007)

this is a bunch of crap! if they do this kids will never get out side to play and ride bikes kids will become obeast video gamers. lets face it i hate toys"r"us bikes as much as the next guy but sometimes it those bikes that get kids started on riding and then they progress into a better bike. not all familys can afford good bikes. i have been fortunate enough to have had great bikes since i began riding and i have always passed down my bike to someone who could really use it once i've upgraded. this country is driving them self into the gutter! Im done!LOL.


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## TheDon (Oct 18, 2005)

norcaldj, it is actually spelt obese, but obeast sounds really cool, a nice play on words for a past tense way of describing it. 

I.e. "That chick is really obeast".


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## greenblinker104 (Feb 27, 2007)

you guys are missing the good part to this story

*FEB 9th 2009 is NATIONAL BUY A BMX BIKE FOR REALLLLLLLL CHEAP DAY!!!!!*

it would actually be interested to see the division of 20in bicycle users: mbx vs, kids coaster 20in bikes and with 24in bicycles

the industry needs to ban together and get some more specifics pumped into this legislation or else say bye bye to anything decent and say hello to big box 20 inchers


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## Uncle Cliffy (Jul 7, 2006)

What a bunch of crap... Reminds me of Mrs. Lovejoy on the Simpsons when she screams "Won't somebody please think of the children?!?"

Yeah, be a parent and make sure your kid doesn't chew on stuff... People who don't know how to parent their children going to the govornment for advise. ARRRRGGG!!!!


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## markf (Jan 17, 2007)

chisao said:


> (iii) Whether the product is commonly recognized by consumers as being intended for use by a child of the ages specified.


this part is worrysome. That sounds like if your average sally soccer mom thinks an object is intended for children, then it falls under these regulation, which probably means bmx bikes will/do.



> (B) TOY THAT CAN BE PLACED IN A CHILD'S MOUTH... If a toy or part of a toy *in one dimension is smaller than 5 centimeters*, it can be placed in the mouth.


this sounds like most things on a bike, handlebars, cranks, pedals, seat noses, rims, probably everything *but* tires.

after i get back from a bit of vacation i'll have to call some of my bmx suppliers and ask them what's up.


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## EndersShadow (Jun 27, 2008)

TheDon said:


> norcaldj, it is actually spelt obese, but obeast sounds really cool, a nice play on words for a past tense way of describing it.
> 
> I.e. "That chick is really obeast".


It's actually "spelt" SPELLED.


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

Any more news on this? 

It's getting a LOT of attention on the motorcycle boards, because this effects small displacement bikes as well (because they are intended for childern under 12, so they can't even be sold to adults as pit-bikes). Some Honda dealers have scanned in letters from Honda talking about the loosing battle, and how the dealers need to pull their 50's, 70's, and 80's off the floor before the 10th. 

ATV's got an exemption, but not motorcycles.


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## The Agency (Jun 28, 2005)

All inventory is supposed to be certified by Feb.10th. QBP and some of the others are requiring the certificates. Some suppliers who for their safety will remain unnamed are doing nothing and thinking they will slide under the radar. For our sake I hope they do.


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

The Agency said:


> All inventory is supposed to be certified by Feb.10th. QBP and some of the others are requiring the certificates. Some suppliers who for their safety will remain unnamed are doing nothing and thinking they will slide under the radar. For our sake I hope they do.


Reading from Bill of Supercross's quote:
I imply that even if the supplier certifies their material it wouldn't matter, because the final product would have to be tested (makes no sense to me). Has this been proven untrue?

I can't imagine you need to test everything in an assembly if each part of an assembly passes the requirement. I also can't imagine that if you cut a number of different parts from some billet that each part would need testing. The company I work for certifies it's aluminum ingots. Each part that is cast from that then has known properties, they do not test and re-cert each seperate casting. Same thing with bar stock materials, stampings, etc. If the base material is certified, you don't need to recheck each part cut from it just because a slot if 0.5 mm different from another part from the same piece of material.


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## Mk3Rider (Dec 7, 2008)

This is change you can believe in!


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## SSdaveo (Nov 10, 2008)

EndersShadow said:


> It's actually "spelt" SPELLED.


To stay completely off topic, it's spelted both ways. Ender, I'm an American, you however are what the world calls a "typical American". You may not like it, but there is hope for you. You can change/open your mind to the rest of the world. Things are done differently in other countries. In the old country (the UK) where the English language was "invented" the past tense spelling of the word spell is in fact spelled "spelt".

Now the on-topic stuff. I don't think there's going to be a major problem for bmx. What I think is going to happen will be mostly be changes in marketing strategies. All bmx bikes and parts will be marketed to adults under the definitions in the ACT. The warning sticker idea is good too. WARNING: This product intended for use by adults. etc


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## d_m_b (Jun 8, 2007)

Mk3Rider said:


> This is change you can believe in!


this thread is older than obama's presidency. think about it.


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

I see Dan's Comp's way around it.

From their web site


> Complete Bikes are not intended, designed or appropriate for use by children age 12 or under


From their latest cataloge


> Complete Bikes on these pages are not intended, designed or appropriate for use by children age 12 or under


Motorcycle dealers are still fighting it. No kids bikes on the floor at the local dealers. But the little Chinese POS's are still sitting out at the shops that sell em. Those are probably the most "dangerous" ones!


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## adam728 (Jan 25, 2006)

Just saw an update on another site. Bicycles are exempt. So why not motorcycles?!?!?!



> In addition, as part of the staff's proposed approach, the CPSC staff looked to the definition of "toy" in the ASTM F963-07 toy safety standard for guidance.7 The CPSIA makes ASTM F963 a mandatory CPSC standard on February 10, 2009. ASTM F963 excludes certain types of articles from the definition of toy:
> •
> Bicycles
> •
> ...


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## dh_drew (Sep 9, 2008)

So what happened to the whole 'free market' thing?


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