# Klein: Pulse vs. Attitude



## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

So I've had my eye on finding a Klein for awhile now. I was hoping for an attitude with one of the signature fade paint jobs (don't really care if it was "vintage" or a more modern Trek model), but with my budget and size issues these are next to impossible to come by at any age/color/etc (budget=shouldn't be buying it, but will for a good deal and size=MUST be XS  ).

To the point, I've come across an XS pulse that appears to be in reasonable to good condition and is a 1998 model. I'm wondering if it's worth scooping this up if I can get a good deal or if I should hold off and hope for an attitude frame in my size and price requirements?

Main questions:
What is the ride difference between a Pulse and Attitude? (I realize component quality was originally lower on the Pulse, but are there any other differences? Difference in intended purpose?)
Main frame differences?
"Vintage" worth differences? (I don't really care, I want to ride the bike, but this might impact what I'm willing to spend...)

Thanks


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

First Klein I rode was a 98 pulse. After that ride I bought a 97 mantra. Then I got a 97 attitude. I don't know if an older attitude rides better than what I have but to be honest the pulse I rode is just as responsive and light as my attitude. My paint is nicer and the cable routing is internal unlike later pulses, but I would not mind owning a pulse at all. You could always start with a pulse and buy an attitude later if one comes up for sale that interests you. The only downsides to the pulse (the newer ones, which are the ones mainly for sale) are the weak paint and external cable routing. That's if you care about that at all.


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## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

Thanks for the input. The external cable routing is somewhat of a bummer, but perhaps one I could live with for now. By "weak paint" are you referring to the chipping problems I've been hearing about, or the less "flashy" probably less expensive paint schemes? Less flashy I can deal with; if it really does chip when you look at it wrong I'm not so sure.

It's good to hear that the ride is similar from someone that has compared both. That is my main concern (aesthetics come next, but I'll admit are important). Perhaps I could view this as an opportunity to test the sizing and ride before investing in a pre-trek attitude...


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## Klein Freak (Jan 30, 2004)

CougarTrek said:


> It's good to hear that the ride is similar from someone that has compared both. That is my main concern (aesthetics come next, but I'll admit are important). Perhaps I could view this as an opportunity to test the sizing and ride before investing in a pre-trek attitude...


Pulses came with a lower component spec, used "cheaper" aluminum - Power tubing over Gradient tubing, used lower quality paint in later years and most likely had different, less racy geometry. None of this means the two bikes are going to be night and day different. Most of it is probably perceived by each individual as being in direct relation to the price they paid. Either way, all pulses are generally much, much cheaper than your average Attitude, even now. If you are looking for a pre-Trek Attitude, you are going to pay a premium, too. '96 and older Attitudes are fetching from $1000 to over $4000 on Ebay, regularly. Trek-built Attitudes are much easier to come by, at 1/3 the price.


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

Klein Freak said:


> 96 and older Attitudes are fetching ...


Isn't it more 95 and earlier? Wasn't the 96 model year Trek-owned? Frame colors in 96 got kinda "blah" too IMO.


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

CougarTrek said:


> "Vintage" worth differences?


Factoring what pre-95 sells for now, and given your requirements, No.


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

I would recommend buying a 1997-98 Attitude which are the best Kleins for riding. They have normal threaded BB shell, rear brake cable routing for V-brake and normal 1 1/8" headset. And they have nice & light Gradient tubing and internal cable routing. Those can be had quite affordably on eBay.

If you want Pulse, I'd buy a 1994-95 Pulse or 1996 Pulse II which have also Gradient tubing and internal cable routing. These Pulses had the same frame as '94-'96 Attitudes except for a different headtube. The original Pulse was Klein's lightest frame, lighter than the Adroit too.

In my opinion 1997--> Pulses are cheapo stuff and not necessarily worth paying any extra over normal Trek etc.


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## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

Interesting. I was hoping the frame construction was very similar if not the same. Sounds like it is not, so I'll hold out for an attitude. Sounds like early-trek is the way to go. I'm assuming trek started changing/cheapening the frames after the late 90's? Unfortunately I'm probably more likely to find a very new one than a late 90's one... 

Thanks guys!


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## Guest (Jan 29, 2008)

just dont mix up the 97/98 Pulses with external cables and the 1994-1996 Pulses with internal cables. as mentioned the later Pulses have different frame material but the geometry is very similar to the older Pulses adn Attitudes/Adroits so the ride is very very similar. so from a riders perspective the later Pulses are just as good as any other Klein. 

the paint quality is poor, it chips easily and occasional just falls off in larger patches. but who cares if it is a rider.

if you want a bit more fetish and Klein aura try to find a 97/98 Attitude as Archangel already mentioned. they are still very nice, internal cables, smooth welds, more flashy and (more important) better quality paints. and they still have the original micro dropouts which i at least like alot. the geometry is the same as the 94-96 Pulses which is almost the same as the pre-Trek Attitudes, just a bit more tweaked for up to 70mm suspension forks. you dont have to bother with press-fit bottom brackets and you can run Vbrakes on the rear without adapters or other solutions. funny enough those 97/98 Attitudes usually are even cheaper than the Pulses from those years.

if you want to run a suspension fork better stay away from the pre-Trek Attitudes and Adroits. if you want a rigid fork the pre-Trek Attitudes and Adroits are very expensive at the moment.

so if you want to go pre-Trek and want to have an Attitude or Adroit it's getting more expensive and thats only for the fetish. you only get troubles with those bikes if you want to update the fork and swap around stems and bars.

the cheapest pre-Trek Kleins still seem to be the 94-96 Pulses. Rascals and Pinnacle tend to be more expensive. the only dis-advantage of those frames if you want so are the press-fit bottom brackets and the canti rear brake. both these issues can be corrected, i.e. you can thread the bb shell and you can run Vbrakes after some modifications. but then there's not much difference anymore to the 97/98 Attitudes.

if you are really on a budget a 97/98 Pulse with external cables might be the best option but you will likely get components with it that you need to upgrade soon. and i've seen them going for unreasonable amounts, but sometimes they stay cheap.

finding a 97/98 Attitude in XS is not easy but sooner or later one will pop up. same for the 94-96 Pulses.

Carsten


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## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

Thanks for the great info Carsten.

I'll keep my eyes peeled for something closer to what I really want. Paint shouldn't really matter, but I think I'd be heartbroken to watch chunks fall off my new baby!!!! Psychological damage probably isn't worth it even though it wouldn't really hurt the frame from a riding perspective, and I am willing to spend more for better quality/longevity but I can't justify spending for a used bike what I can go buy a new custom for since I'm not attempting to collect true vintage works of art.

The search continues!


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## Klein Freak (Jan 30, 2004)

CougarTrek said:


> Paint shouldn't really matter, but I think I'd be heartbroken to watch chunks fall off my new baby!!!!


You do realize these aren't "new" anymore, right?  Although you haven't really given us your spending limit, from what it sounds like, the Klein's in your range are going to be at least 10 years old. They were once "new" to someone, but after that much time they are bound to have battle scars (unless you're paying top-dollar for a wall hanger). I'd focus more on getting the best built frame possible, and care about the superficial stuff later. :thumbsup:


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## CougarTrek (Jan 27, 2007)

Klein Freak said:


> You do realize these aren't "new" anymore, right?  Although you haven't really given us your spending limit, from what it sounds like, the Klein's in your range are going to be at least 10 years old. They were once "new" to someone, but after that much time they are bound to have battle scars (unless you're paying top-dollar for a wall hanger). I'd focus more on getting the best built frame possible, and care about the superficial stuff later. :thumbsup:


Realize they aren't new? Yes, definitely. The scratches and small chips that come with normal wear on a good paint job will not bother me, small non-structural dings and blemishes won't bother me. Watching large sections of paint crumble in my hands for no reason other than the paint job was originally shoddy WILL (and it sounds from reviews and posts here that this is a likely occurence on this particular model of this particular year).

If I wanted to get the best frame possible and had no other criterion or concerns I would not be attempting to find 10yr old bikes. I'd go buy a new one. So yes, other concerns like aestetics and appeal to me are going to play a major role in how much I'm willing to spend.


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## woodenpaddler (Aug 2, 2004)

The experts above have pretty well covered it but I'll add I have a 96 Pulse Comp and a 95 Pulse; they have pretty similar geometry and ride essentially the same but differ a lot in quality. The 96 Pulse Comp has the butted tubing, external cabling, flaking paint, rougher welds, standard threaded bottom bracket and separate seat tube clamp. The 96-98 Pulse comp, along with the Pulse Race and Pulse pro, I understand were built by Trek. Not a bad frame compared to average bikes, it has the Klein micro dropouts, but it lacks most of the other special Klein features. This is my bike to commute or tow the Burley with now but I have done many epic rides with it in the past. 

The Klein built 95 Pulse has gradient tubing, pressed-in square-taper bottom bracket, beautiful paint, beautiful smooth welds, internal cable routing, and integrated seat tube clamp. Stunning to look at. I think the Pulse is the same as an Attitude of that era except the Pulse uses a standard 1 1/8" headset, not the Klein MC2. That's why I guess a collector will value the 94-96 Attitude much more, but as a rider the Pulse allows you more flexibility with the headset as noted by others above and is still an equally top notch frame. 96 Pulse II also appears built like the earlier Pulses. 

Like noted above, the older Kleins were designed for shorter axel to crown length forks than typical for modern suspension forks so a rigid fork of appropriate length is probably better option than trying to fit a modern fork or repair an old suspension fork.

Good luck finding the right bike for you.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Well, I must admit that I just purchased a bike like the ones you're talking about. A Pulse, made after Trek bought Klein. Still, I'm actually very happy with the purchase and I'd like to tell you why.
Of course, it doesn't have the same "aura" as an older Attitude or Adroit might have had. But then it's still a Klein, ride characteristics, geometry and things alike were important to me. 
Yes, I had to buy this bike on a budget. Something I normally dislike, but there was no way around (as it wasn't for myself).
With the limited budget, there were two main choices: Get a "modern", lowest-end bike which is brand new, or get an older bike that was considered high quality at that time. I chose the latter and I'm sure it was the right decision.
This bike will be for someone who enjoys riding very much, and I hope this bike will feed this joy even more. So that when time passes, she might want to get a nice bike again without such a limited budget, but she'll know the reason why it makes sense to spend some money on high quality components. We'll see.
Of course, aside the budget thing, replacement parts were a good reason against an older Attitude or Adroit, as some friends of mine (who rode those bikes for races back then) had problems with loose bearings now and then, something that would be a total loss now, which can't be accepted as the bike is supposed to be ridden.


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## 4000fps (Feb 5, 2008)

Radical, congrats on the purchase. I just bought a 98 Attitude frame. Hardly ridden, and only a few small scratches.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanks  I'm already too curious and can't wait to get my hands on the bike. Haven't had this feeling for a while 

Did you take any pictures of the attitude? Maybe one day I'll have the money to get one myself, I really dig the "storm" paint job.


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## 4000fps (Feb 5, 2008)

Ahhh...my doesn't have the storm paint. It is a greenish/blue fade. Now I am trying tp piece it all together without going broke.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

The thing about the paint was more like a side note  I guess it was the first paint job I saw on a Klein, at least the one that I'll always remember. I really like it, even though Klein (especially Klein  ) has numerous really really nice paintjobs.
Building a bike without getting broke is hard, it was hard back then and it is even harder now when you want old parts in a nice quality  I wish you luck on your search!


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