# Handlebar Alternatives_Dumb idea?



## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

I am looking at alternative handlebar designs. The traditional riser or flat bar leave my wrists numb after an hour. Bar ends (the oval kind) help, but are awkward in that I cant shift or reach my brakes while using them.

I recently swtiched to Soma Sparrow bars on my fixed gear commuter and love them. I have been toying with the idea with trying a set on my mountain bike. With a riser stem and the bars angled on an incline, my hand position is "natural" i.e. like it would be if you just extended your arms and gripped something.

FInding a comfortable brake/shifter placement may be a challenge, but I think it can be done.

My concern is that I won't be able to exert the same kind of leverage as with a flat bar.

Interested in peoples' thoughts/comments/chastizements


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## Restoman (Feb 21, 2009)

There is a kook on here pushing "drop bars" he has his reasons.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Restoman said:


> There is a kook on here pushing "drop bars" he has his reasons.


yah and he has a strange infatuation with bike tires too....


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## c_m_shooter (Mar 8, 2007)

Good idea. Looks like you can set them up like dirt drops and not have to deal with the road lever/mountain brake and shifter incompatibility issues. Run whatever is comfortable, I get lots of quetions about my setup.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

maybe..









but seriously, im interested in this too. ive been thinking about trying bar ends but i agree it would bug me about not reaching brake levers, what about the some noah arc bar, a bit more backsweep then normal. i think voodoo makes a bar similar also.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Not quite to the extreme of drop bars or Mary Bars...but I love my 17 degree Salsa bars and don't feel there is any reduction of leverage. If anything, they feel better when standing and hammering.


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## veloreality (May 10, 2009)

soma noah ark








on one fleegle








ritchey has a few bars with 10 degree backsweep








titeck flat tracker 









all have more then usual backsweep without being as extreme at the mary bars or others like it. the voodoo bars i was thinking of are pretty much a beach cruiser bar.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Not quite to the extreme of drop bars or Mary Bars...but I love my 17 degree Salsa bars and don't feel there is any reduction of leverage. If anything, they feel better when standing and hammering.


I'm ordering one in this week. Thanks. :thumbsup:


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## c_m_shooter (Mar 8, 2007)

The Soma Noah Arc bar doesn't work off road. Every time you land a jump they will rotate down in the stem.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

veloreality said:


> all have more then usual backsweep without being as extreme at the mary bars or others like it. the voodoo bars i was thinking of are pretty much a beach cruiser bar.


Ritchey is only 10 degrees which is only a degree off most riser bars, the Titec has the same sweep as their riser bars so I would not consider either an alternative bar.

Soma makes two off-road bars, but the Noah Ark is not one of them

The Odin Bar with 15 degree sweep (similar to Fleegal)









The Clarance Bar which is very similar to the Mary Bar


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

c_m_shooter said:


> The Soma Noah Arc bar doesn't work off road if you do jumping. Most that ride off road don't jump off any big stuff and so this isn't a problem for most.


Fixed. You touch on the reason that mtb's generally don't have a lot of sweep to the bars.
If you ride extreme off road including jumping, alternative bars are not the right solution. There is a reason why alternative bars are between a std. low sweep bar and cruiser bars. Its because for high speed, long XC off road riding, having your wrists in a more natural position is more comfortable. Similarily that is the reason that cruisers don't have a low backsweep bar. Why needlessly suffer with a unergonomic wrist position if you aren't jumping your cruiser off of 3 foot jumps. Bars are meant to fit the type of riding you do.
Here is my bar set up below. Soma Clarence which is essentially a Mary clone albeit fractionally longer with Ergon GP-1 superlight grips. This is a fantastic combination for high speed XC off road riding. Also just added the Sram X.9 shifters shown. What makes them so good is the ability to locate them away from the grips. I don't like my hands crowded. Not only is there a second clamp position on the shifter body but the clamp design is narrow and flexible enough to push them along any bar curve provided it maintains its section diameter. I will say this. The Ergon GP-1 superlights are by far the best grip I have ridden with and I have tried quite a few.
If you suffer with needless palm pain which btw is only obtusely related to bar backsweep, buy these grips. (No affiliation)


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

My intended use is xc and singletrack. I plan on doing some endurance events this season. I dont do crazy jumps or anything, but do need something that wont rotate everytime I hop a log or surmount a large rock.

Here is a pic of the soma bars I was talking about


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

dirtrider7 said:


> Here is my bar set up below. Soma Clarence which is essentially a Mary clone albeit fractionally longer with Ergon GP-1 superlight grips. This is a fantastic combination for high speed XC off road riding. Also just added the Sram X.9 shifters shown. What makes them so good is the ability to locate them away from the grips. I don't like my hands crowded. Not only is there a second clamp position on the shifter body but the clamp design is narrow and flexible enough to push them along any bar curve provided it maintains its section diameter. I will say this. The Ergon GP-1 superlights are by far the best grip I have ridden with and I have tried quite a few.
> If you suffer with needless palm pain which btw is only obtusely related to bar backsweep, buy these grips. (No affiliation)


That looks like a really nice setup--i will definately consider it.


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

Take a look at the Fu-Bars as well. The Soma's are a bit thicker where it counts than the Mary's, still not for hucking. The Fu-Bars are even thicker but not with as much angle I believe. There is also the Luv Handles from Groovy Cycleworks. He can make whatever you want.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

PoorBehavior said:


> Take a look at the Fu-Bars as well. The Soma's are a bit thicker where it counts than the Mary's, still not for hucking. The Fu-Bars are even thicker but not with as much angle I believe. There is also the Luv Handles from Groovy Cycleworks. He can make whatever you want.


I just removed the Fubar in favor of the Clarence aka Mary clone...mostly because I couldn't attain the cockpit length I wanted even with a 140mm stem. The Fubar moved the grips back about 30mm more than a conventional low sweep mtb bar. I prefer the Clarence bar for this reason. If your bike is sized with too long a top tube, the Fubar maybe a good solution.. The sweep and width are almost indentical...difference is fore/aft position. The Fubar in my experience changes the cockpit dramatically...at least by 30mm rearward...only 20mm of forward sweep versus 50mm for the Soma Clarence. The bar I would like to try is the new Ragley Carnegie with 25 deg of sweep and I believe 30mm forward sweep. This config won't bring the bars back much if anything rearward thereby preserving precious cockpit length. I am not sure if 25 deg. of rearward sweep would be more comfortable than the 37-40 degress of the Clarence bar. Only way to find out is trial and error. A nuance to share which may escape some is....the large surface area land for the palm of the Ergon grips de-emphasizes the rear sweep of the bar a bit...in other words your hand can assume a more natural position dictated by your body without being locked into the sweep angle of the handlebar. This is because a more conventional round grip indexes more precisely to the palm which incidentally is why round grips aren't as comfortable....constant higher psi loading of localized area of the palm where the cylindrical grip contacts the hand. An analogy of the Ergon grip is like that of a saddle. Most of us wouldn't like to sit on a log shaped seat for long.  All about spreading out psi for comfort.


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Soma makes two off-road bars, but the Noah Ark is not one of them
> 
> The Odin Bar with 15 degree sweep (similar to Fleegal)
> 
> ...


I don't work for on-one anymore, and have done a new bar - the Carnegie - which is quite a bit different (width, sweep, rise, clamp diameter, material).

But really? I mean... what's with Soma just flat out copying?


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

confusion on the clarence bar. There seems to be two bars with different shapes made under that name


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

brant said:


> I don't work for on-one anymore, and have done a new bar - the Carnegie - which is quite a bit different (width, sweep, rise, clamp diameter, material).
> 
> But really? I mean... what's with Soma just flat out copying?


Looks like it, I am quite intrigued by the Carnegie bar, but would like to see a little better US distribution (yes I know CRC ships to the US, but I would prefer to spend my money with US businesses).

And yes, Soma was flat out copying the shape though they are thicker so some of the well documented Mary Bar failures will hopefully not repeat themselves with the Soma.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

skankingbiker said:


> confusion on the clarence bar. There seems to be two bars with different shapes made under that name


Optical illusion due to the color and angle...they are the same bar with the same dimensions
:thumbsup:


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## 4JawChuck (Dec 1, 2008)

Just an observation from a guy who used to get numb hands and sore wrists after every ride...it might not be your bars or your grips.

Much of the pain you are feeling you are causing yourself from leaning on your hands while you ride, the trick is to get your core strength to where you are supporting yourself on your stomach muscles and only holding onto the bars/grips not putting a lot of weight on them. Now there are always a time when you need to weight the front end etc. but the key is to mentally train yourself to take the weight off and tense your core to support your weight. I still find myself occassionaly getting lazy and leaning on my hands and have to remind myself to crunch those abs to take the weight off.

It took me a few years of suffering and trying all kinds of products to solve the problem, I even bought custom gel wrist braces. The Ergons were the best solution I found for epic 8 hour rides where its gonna hurt no matter what you do but consider the idea of changing the way you ride and maybe do some core strength training to get those stomach muscles tough. I found it took a bit of saddle height adjustment before I found a sweet spot where my legs had enough room to swing and my bar height was such that I was essentially crunching my abs as I rode.

Trust me it made a huge difference in my comfort and I got rid of all the "bandaids" and ride far more quickly now that I realized what I was doing wrong.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

The two main contenders right now are the FuBar and the Pryamid Northroad bar

I decided my sparrow bars were probably too narrow for singletrack. 

I was interested in the Clarence bars, but they appear to be on backorder.


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

Ragley Carnegie. Damn, I forgot about these. I have a set of Fu-Bars and they are solid and strong but everything you said about the cockpit getting moved back is spot on. I wanted something less than the Mary's 37 degrees and more than the Fleegles 15 degrees so I got the FuBar. Great bar and very strong. With the Ragley at 25 degrees it looks like one of the small issues I had with the FuBar, (which is a fit issue, nothing to do with the bar it self) is fixed. A few less degrees setback though they do look like you will still need a longish stem. When I responded I forgot that I saw the Ragley's and had already decided to try a set out this year. Thanks for reminding me, I can add those to my "items to order for the new season" list.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

PoorBehavior said:


> Ragley Carnegie. Damn, I forgot about these. I have a set of Fu-Bars and they are solid and strong but everything you said about the cockpit getting moved back is spot on. I wanted something less than the Mary's 37 degrees and more than the Fleegles 15 degrees so I got the FuBar. Great bar and very strong. With the Ragley at 25 degrees it looks like one of the small issues I had with the FuBar, (which is a fit issue, nothing to do with the bar it self) is fixed. A few less degrees setback though they do look like you will still need a longish stem. When I responded I forgot that I saw the Ragley's and had already decided to try a set out this year. Thanks for reminding me, I can add those to my "items to order for the new season" list.


Actually the Carnegie Bars have a 33mm forward sweep so you should not have the same issues as the FuBar


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Actually the Carnegie Bars have a 33mm forward sweep so you should not have the same issues as the FuBar


I think the difference is pretty small. Fu-Bar is on top and actually looks like it has more forward length before it starts it's sweep back. Could be the angle of the pictures though.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

I mounted a pair of small bar ends inboard of the levers and shifters....I use them on long easy streches to ease the hands....the position pulls my arms in and my elbows down, comfortable and aero...

I also use them going up hills... I have them a little too narrow for hard hills....


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

mtnbiker72 said:


> Actually the Carnegie Bars have a 33mm forward sweep so you should not have the same issues as the FuBar


True and two dynamics at play touched on previously. The Carnegie comes back less with 25 deg of backsweep and therefore needs less compensation of forward sweep compared to the Fubar and as it turns out it has more. A Carnegie should be a good wash for fit compared to a traditional straightish bar with small backsweep. This is where the Fubar doesn't work for many...the Fubar 2 is better but only because it doesn't sweep back as far. Forward sweep has to match rearward sweep to keep the grips in a decent position. It is really unclear as to whether a 25 deg backsweep is more ergonomic compared to a 40 deg backsweep of a Mary/Clarence bar. To me the Jones H-bar at 45 deg is just too much backsweep but no doubt many like it. Rudy Luv handles have 21.5 deg or so backsweep so that is another option. As a general comment...if one ride with your body closer to the bars or with an aggressive bent over torso angle and or with a more narrow bar, then you will generally prefer less backsweep so riding position has to match bar choice. I would likely ride a traditional mountain bar if I liked my bars closer in which causes the elbows to stick out and hands to rotate more inward.


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## PoorBehavior (Sep 1, 2005)

dirtrider7 said:


> The Carnegie comes back less with 25 deg of backsweep and therefore needs less compensation of forward sweep compared to the Fubar and as it turns out it has more. Keep in mind if you ride with your body closer to the bars or with an acute torso angle, then you will generally prefer less backsweep so riding position matters a lot in bar choice.


I think the lesser degree of back sweep is the bigger factor here, though I agree with the body position point.

My Fu-Bars have a bit too much sweep to them but it is hard to figure out what will be better, the 25 degree's of the Carnagie or the 21.5 or the Luv Handles. I figure by the time I am done I will have a pair of each of these. I have origin 8 Mary knock offs, Fleegle's and the Fu-Bar's. After reviewing this again I am very tempted to get the Luv Handles first, because of the lag time from ordering until delivery.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

PoorBehavior said:


> I think the difference is pretty small. Fu-Bar is on top and actually looks like it has more forward length before it starts it's sweep back. Could be the angle of the pictures though.


Actually even though your good pictures don't really show the fore/aft relationship, the difference is substantial. The reason they optically appear to have similar forward sweep is because the Carnegie sweeps right from the stem clamp. Fubars put the hands back farther by at least 20mm and perhaps as much as 30 due to both less foward sweep and greater backsweep.


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## skankingbiker (Jan 15, 2010)

The Fu Bar is interesting because even with a shorter stem 60mm, my cockpit feels too long. They are a little pricey though.

What about these:








Origin 8 Space OR

Anyone using these? Price is much more to my liking.


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## theycallmeE (Aug 21, 2007)

*Maybe not...*



PoorBehavior said:


> ...After reviewing this again I am very tempted to get the Luv Handles first, because of the lag time from ordering until delivery.


Hey PB, I thought I was in for a long wait time too, but my Luv Handles landed on my front door about a week after I called Rody. Not sure what his production situation is like now, but just wanted you to know it could be quicker (these were naked Ti). Highly recommend them :thumbsup: ,

E


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

> o me the Jones H-bar at 45 deg is just too much backsweep but no doubt many like it.


Though, the hand position Jeff suggests most people ride in, is actually on the joint between the 45deg and straight bar - in the "hook" of the joint. So perhaps it's only 22.5deg effective?

Certainly it's a position that nothing (except perhaps a moustache bar) compares to.

I really enjoyed riding my mountainbike with a very short stem and a moustache bar (Midge), but you have to run STI's which aren't great for the sort of riding I like to do.


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## dirtrider7 (Oct 24, 2009)

brant said:


> Though, the hand position Jeff suggests most people ride in, is actually on the joint between the 45deg and straight bar - in the "hook" of the joint. So perhaps it's only 22.5deg effective?
> 
> Certainly it's a position that nothing (except perhaps a moustache bar) compares to.
> 
> I really enjoyed riding my mountainbike with a very short stem and a moustache bar (Midge), but you have to run STI's which aren't great for the sort of riding I like to do.


Brant,
Why are STI's incompatible with your kind of riding? Couldn't you run separate levers and bar end shifters?


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

dirtrider7 said:


> Brant,
> Why are STI's incompatible with your kind of riding? Couldn't you run separate levers and bar end shifters?


Bearing in mind my current tyres of choice are Maxxis 42A 2.5in Dual Ply High Rollers, with a 140mm Revelation Maxle fork, I can't see throwing STI's or bar-end shifters into the mix to be a great combo. Just not right for "my sort of riding" currently.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

brant said:


> Though, the hand position Jeff suggests most people ride in, is actually on the joint between the 45deg and straight bar - in the "hook" of the joint. So perhaps it's only 22.5deg effective?
> 
> Certainly it's a position that nothing (except perhaps a moustache bar) compares to.
> 
> I really enjoyed riding my mountainbike with a very short stem and a moustache bar (Midge), but you have to run STI's which aren't great for the sort of riding I like to do.


ummm...Brant, The mustache bar is the Mungo. Midge is the drop bar.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

skankingbiker said:


> I am looking at alternative handlebar designs. The traditional riser or flat bar leave my wrists numb after an hour. Bar ends (the oval kind) help, but are awkward in that I cant shift or reach my brakes while using them.
> 
> I recently swtiched to Soma Sparrow bars on my fixed gear commuter and love them. I have been toying with the idea with trying a set on my mountain bike. With a riser stem and the bars angled on an incline, my hand position is "natural" i.e. like it would be if you just extended your arms and gripped something.
> 
> ...


Leverage is not really an issue. You just may need to apply it differently. Easy to learn, especially if you are having joint problems with straight bars.


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

shiggy said:


> ummm...Brant, The mustache bar is the Mungo. Midge is the drop bar.


Oh yeah. It's been a while 

The therapy must be working


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## osture (Feb 7, 2010)

I put these on my Stumpjumper, much more comfortable.


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