# Steel head tube for 44mm/56mm headset cups



## brunoschull (Jun 22, 2014)

Hi, 

Anybody know a supplier for a steel head tube that will accept integrated or inset headset cups, 44 mm OD on upper cup, 56 mm OD on lower cup? 

That would allow me to use something like a ChrisKing Inset 2 on a steel frame. 

I browsed several frame building parts distributors, and found plenty of steel head tubes, but no tapered head tubes that would accept cups of these dimensions. 

Ideas?

Many thanks.


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## MannaDesigns (Mar 5, 2013)

Steel | Loco Machine

he should be able to make you one if he doesn't have it already...

HEADTUBE GUIDE | Loco Machine

looks like he has it listed...


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## brunoschull (Jun 22, 2014)

Thanks!


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

It sounds like you have an answer, but I'm still curious - why do you want 44/56? How huge is the downtube going to be?

-Walt


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## brunoschull (Jun 22, 2014)

Hi Walt,

I recognize your name, and I have learned much from your various posts. Thanks for your many contributions. 

Full disclosure: I am not building a frame myself, but looking for information about a frame I may have built by a local frame builder. But, I actually have built a frame in the past. This may bring some memories: does anybody remember the Paterek Manual, and the Paterek framne building class/school? When I was about 16 or 17 (I'm 43 now) I went out to the Twin Cities one very cold winter and built a road frame with Paterek. I rode and raced on that bike for a long time. Later, in bike shops, I did an odd braze on here and there, but I'm no frame builder. 

Back to your question: I've been around bikes for long enough to have developed some weird preferences. One of these is that if one of the headset cups in integrated I think the other should be too! I don't like the various mixed headset configurations, with one inset cup and one external cup. There is no reason for my preference beyond aesthetics and vision. 

Most high end mountain bike suspension forks these days are going with 1.5 --> 1.125 steerer tubes, so it follows that, if I want to use one of these forks, and an integrated headset, I will need a head tube of the kind I asked about. 

But, I am well aware that is a big head tube! Probably unnecessarily heavy, and, as you indicate, not well-matched to the OD of the down tube. So I would probably just go with two external headset cups. But I wanted to be sure if these head tubes were even available, before I made the decision. 

Follow up question: what is the general method in a small shop to miter the down tube and/or top tube to a tapered head tube? Do they make special cutting tools for that? Is it usually done by hand? Just curious. 

All the best, 
Bruno


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

brunoschull said:


> Follow up question: what is the general method in a small shop to miter the down tube and/or top tube to a tapered head tube? Do they make special cutting tools for that? Is it usually done by hand? Just curious.
> 
> All the best,
> Bruno


Check out the Loco link, under the "how to's"...he actually talks about just that.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

ZS44/EC49 is as big as you need to go. Minimum for Angleset.
ZS56 just adds a bunch of weight and cost for the sole reason of aesthetics. Angleset still available.
IS52 is just silly as you can't use Angleset.


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## DEFCON4130 (Dec 19, 2009)

Did someone say IS52..

I think its awesome!


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## brunoschull (Jun 22, 2014)

Thanks for all the replies. The Loco link looks good. Interesting to read about methods to miter the tubes. I assume the big guys with water formed tubling and such use water jets of lasers to cut the miters. 

To PVD--I am correct in assuming that with the ZS44/EC49 standard I could use an angleset and a 1.5 --> 1.125 steerer? Are both angleset cups external, or semi-recessed? And most important, how well to those anglesets work? I have always been wary of them from two reasons: 1) getting them set up right so that the fork is in plane with the frame, and 2) things loosening and slipping out of alignment out of time. How does their reliability and durability compare to something like Chris King inset? 

To Defcon: that's a rather impressive head tube! But I think I would prefer to go with something that had a more gradual taper 

Last, aside from weight and aesthetics (depending on your personal tastes) does anybody see any drawbacks to using a 44/56 system on a steel frame? 

As always, many many thanks for your informed replies. 

Bruno


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## DEFCON4130 (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks!

It's only 2.5deg angle inside and outside.. you could design it for zero.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Anglesets work great. Unless you are a total klutz with tools/unable to follow directions, the fork/wheel will stay plenty well enough in alignment that everything will work perfectly. It will not come loose while riding, either. 

There's no functional reason you can't do a huge head tube on your new bike. Go for it!

-Walt


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

brunoschull said:


> To PVD--I am correct in assuming that with the ZS44/EC49 standard I could use an angleset and a 1.5 --> 1.125 steerer? Are both angleset cups external, or semi-recessed? And most important, how well to those anglesets work? I have always been wary of them from two reasons: 1) getting them set up right so that the fork is in plane with the frame, and 2) things loosening and slipping out of alignment out of time. How does their reliability and durability compare to something like Chris King inset?


1. Anglesets work great. That's why I suggested it.

Going full enduro | Peter Verdone Designs
An AngleSet for an AngleSet | Peter Verdone Designs










2. If your headsets are loosening over time then you need to find a real mechanic.

3. Why would you use a King headset when you could use a Cane Creek? Cane Creek are the best.


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## Meriwether (Jul 26, 2007)

Loco has not continued to make headtubes and looks like Paragon will be carrying their Ti options, but has anyone started making 44/49 headtubes? 


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