# Over 50 and NEW to flat pedals on techy trails...



## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

Well, after all these years, more than 20, of riding clipped in and basically forging my whole riding style and technique around clipless, I've finally decided to give flat pedals a try. I spent some cash on the setup. They're very nice pedals; Yoshimura Chilao's and 510 Freerider Pro shoes. The shoes are stiff and comfortable and the pedals have a solid grippy feel. Today was my first "real" ride with them and what ended up happening was the opposite of what I was expecting.

Initially, I was worried about the climbs. How can I possibly attain the same power and efficiency on the techy climbs with a flat pedal? Won't I be fumbling and stumbling and not cleaning the climbs anymore? Surprisingly, it didn't turn out that way. Sure, I'm probably a tad less efficient, but it wasn't all that noticeable. The shoes seemed to dig into the pins when I really needed them to and I realized the crux of the battle in conquering climbs lies in your endurance level and how much suffering you can actually take. Shoes, cleats, pins and pedals be damned. The problem for me became apparent on the downhills.

At this stage of the game, age 53, I'm not really much of a sender or gap jumper (I guess I never was), but I am and have always been fascinated by finding the perfect line on techy rollable features with the occasional boulder huck. That said, I was caught off guard at how easily my feet moved and slipped around on the steeps/bigger hits/rock gardens/ruts etc. and I realized this was something that I never needed to be concerned with whatsoever while clipped in. I really had to force myself to focus on keeping my heels angled downward which I suppose, is proper mountain biking technique anyway. When riding clipped in, I never gave this a second thought because your feet WILL NOT MOVE AT ALL no matter how your foot is angled.

So that's it. Hope this isn't too much of a ramble. I hope there's something of interest for anybody reading it and I'd love to hear from other riders who have switched from clipped in to flats and what your experiences have been like. I've gone all in with this, so my plan is to give this at least a solid 3 months or so, and for my next rides, I'll probably hit some less gnarly trails where I can focus on proper technique on the downhills. Ride safe out there!


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

Switched to flats twenty years ago, never would go back to clipless.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

TheInfiniteRoller said:


> Well, after all these years, more than 20, of riding clipped in and basically forging my whole riding style and technique around clipless, I've finally decided to give flat pedals a try. I spent some cash on the setup. They're very nice pedals; Yoshimura Chilao's and 510 Freerider Pro shoes. The shoes are stiff and comfortable and the pedals have a solid grippy feel. Today was my first "real" ride with them and what ended up happening was the opposite of what I was expecting.
> 
> Initially, I was worried about the climbs. How can I possibly attain the same power and efficiency on the techy climbs with a flat pedal? Won't I be fumbling and stumbling and not cleaning the climbs anymore? Surprisingly, it didn't turn out that way. Sure, I'm probably a tad less efficient, but it wasn't all that noticeable. The shoes seemed to dig into the pins when I really needed them to and I realized the crux of the battle in conquering climbs lies in your endurance level and how much suffering you can actually take. Shoes, cleats, pins and pedals be damned. The problem for me became apparent on the downhills.
> 
> ...


Even more important than heels down is to keep your knees slightly flexed so you absorb bumps with your legs, not suspension

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

To be honest, it's more about keeping the calves more relaxed (at least enough to be flexible IMO). Because, yea it's all about absorbing bumps. Heels down is sort of a byproduct of being in that position in some ways. It'll improve your clipped in riding too.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

rod9301 said:


> Even more important than heels down is to keep your knees slightly flexed so you absorb bumps with your legs, not suspension
> 
> Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


This. You have to actually weight the pedals. This will also make you more connected with your bike and ultimately a better rider.

I got my first MTB in 1989 and learned to ride in toe clips thanks to roadie parents. I quickly transitioned to clipless and rode clipped on MTB and road (tris mostly) until 2011 or so when I decided to spend more time having fun on my bikes instead of trying to be the most fit (which I never was anyway.) Fast forward another decade plus and I wouldn't never go back to clips. If I ever do a tri again, I'll do it in flats - which will make my bike slower and my transitions faster 

Anyway, the point is that you can make the transition - if you want to. It definately takes some relearning and probably some honesty about the state of your "technique" after relying on clips for so many years but it's worth it if, if only for the new experience.

If you decide not to, that's ok too.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

In my 50’s, over the course of a year or two, I tried out flats for a ride or two and all I could think was “I’ve just wasted a ride”. I was busy then and a wasted ride just flat out sucked (pun intended), so I’d immediately go back to my clipless setup so as not to waste anymore rides. Now in my 60s and retired, but I still don’t want to waste a ride so I stay with my clipless setup. I don’t see my friends who ride flats having more fun than I do and they’re always behind me so I don’t see them anyway (pun intended again). I just don’t get this “you have to learn how to ride correctly” then flats will be good business. Maybe when I’m in my 70s I’ll have lost the skill to unclip when needed and flats will become a necessity. Yes, I’m sure I’m not riding as rad as you are (says every flat pedal rider everywhere) and if I did I’d need flats (and shin guards).


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## Xylx (Mar 18, 2005)

I went back to flats 20 years ago after losing both my big toenails when I ended up in a hike-a-bike situation there was no retreating from and having to hike in clip shoes. I end up doing more pushing now that I'm in my late 60s, so it worked out just fine. I recently came across an old photo from Moab. I was like OMG look at those skinny tires, that skinny frame and OMG clips! What were we thinking?


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

OP - In time it will be second nature and by then you will acquire a new sense of balance on the bike.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Get some shin guards. Guaranteed at some point your foot will come off the pedal and you'll take some pins to the shin.

One of the reasons I won't go back to flats. 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

I really want a set of those Yoshi pedals.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

I was in almost the exact same situation. Fifteen years of riding clips. Never had a problem with them. I could always unclip and clip in in the most heinous techy situations.

Decided to try flats about 7-8 years ago. Bought nice flat pedals FiveTen Impact shoes and put them on my bigger/all mountain bike.

Like you, My first and most puzzling consternation with them was keeping my feet on them on rough descents. That and getting my feet centered and where I wanted them on the pedal.

Like others have said, it just takes time. You have to consciously weight your pedals and find that oneness and balance with the bike again.

You’ll get it. It took me a good month or two to feel reasonably comfortable in most situations. I’ll bet it was more like a year or more before it was a total non-issue in all riding situations and ingrained in my subconscious muscle memory.

I guess I’m a slow learner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Absolutely get some shin guards. I don't like flats much though I do use them on the fat bike out of necessity. I don't like any clipless pedals other than Frogs since they lets my ankles rotate during the pedal stroke which I need, and let me release with no spring tension or lock-in. I'll try flats again this winter and see if I can get more comfy on flats, but I don't have much hope. I think they need some time to get the technique down.


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## Slowup (Dec 16, 2009)

Kootbiker said:


> Switched to flats twenty years ago, never would go back to clipless.


I did the opposite except, never say never.


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Time ATAC and 10 degree easy release cleats. Probably easiest release pedal out there.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

For what it's worth, not everyone has huge issues with shin strikes. For me, they're not common at all.


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

dysfunction said:


> For what it's worth, not everyone has huge issues with shin strikes. For me, they're not common at all.


2 years with flats and I've never had a shin strike. But I have good technique and keep "heavy feet" on the bike. Riding a steel hard tail single speed or 120mm travel full suspension. In the past when I would get kicked out of the pedals it was normally from sitting in terrain which I should have been standing or pointing my toes down and having my foot roll forward off the pedal.


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## hobbit712 (Feb 1, 2020)

^^^ This. I got into MTB about 2.5 years ago. I had no desire to ride clipless as I was concerned I couldn't get out in case of a crash which was happening a little frequently.  I crash a little less lately. I wear knee pads all the time as I have an artificial knee I have no desire to injure and/or have replaced. But I have very infrequent shin strikes. 👍


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

Thanks for all these replies! I was hoping to get some different perspectives and that's what I'm getting.


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## Scott2MTB (Feb 2, 2015)

I've only had shin strikes when goofing around trying to "jib" or doing trials moves. I can't think of a time where it was from regular riding though my memory of the previous decade is getting a little hazy. I always wear shin guards on the trials bike, yet somehow the pedal often finds a way anyway.

I have caught the back of my calf or knee pads many times when pushing or moving my bike around but it's just annoying and not anything like a shinner.


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

Gumby_rider said:


> OP - In time it will be second nature and by then you will acquire a new sense of balance on the bike.


This is my goal.


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

KRob said:


> I was in almost the exact same situation. Fifteen years of riding clips. Never had a problem with them. Could I unclip and clip in in the most heinous techy situations.
> 
> Decided to try flats about 7-8 years ago. Bought nice flat pedals 5/10 Impact shoes and put them on my bigger/all mountain bike.
> 
> ...


This is what I'm hoping will happen! I probably should have started off on a less technical ride, but I guess after riding for so long I always felt my technique was naturally OK. There's a very steep rock garden on the trail and I really wanted to see what it felt like with the flats. I made it through with no dabs, but I was really focusing on my feet and I probably used more brake and went down a little slower than I would have with the clipless.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

There is a technique to scooping the back foot to keep the feet locked on. Generally I ride with both heels dropped, but if I am going off a jump or through a rough rock garden, with pedals level, I slightly lift my back heel, and push both feet into the pedals horizontally, which locks them in. It is like you are bracing with the front foot to try to push the back pedal towards the rear wheel. It does not have to be a lot of force. 
This technique works also for when you need to lift up the back end of the bike or to keep constant pressure on the pedals when climbing tech.


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

DeoreDX said:


> I really want a set of those Yoshi pedals.












They really are pretty, but full disclosure here: I am easily seduced by bikes and parts and I was able to afford these and they are a local company. We all know there are nice looking pedals that function just as well as these for half the price or even less! Dang, one ride in and already gettin' dinged up! lol


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## TeeCee (Jan 7, 2021)

Those pins aren't going to hold you very well. They are the bluntest pins I've ever seen........

Compare them with Hope F20 pins and you'll see what I mean.....

switch them out for something better!


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## Neuner (Feb 14, 2005)

prj71 said:


> Time ATAC and 10 degree easy release cleats. Probably easiest release pedal out there.


Exactly. Love mine. I can clip in and out of them as if I have flats. In 20+ years, I've never fallen and still had my pedals attached. They've always let loose at the right moment. 

I've bashed them on many rocks and coated in mud and they still work awesome.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I love how someone posts a thread about learning something new, and people respond with posts about how to use the old stuff instead.


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

TeeCee said:


> Those pins aren't going to hold you very well. They are the bluntest pins I've ever seen........
> 
> Compare them with Hope F20 pins and you'll see what I mean.....
> 
> switch them out for something better!


That's certainly something to experiment with. I will probably eventually try that if these do not ending up feeling more comfortable as I continue to use them.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

TheInfiniteRoller said:


> Well, after all these years, more than 20, of riding clipped in and basically forging my whole riding style and technique around clipless, I've finally decided to give flat pedals a try. I spent some cash on the setup. They're very nice pedals; Yoshimura Chilao's and 510 Freerider Pro shoes. The shoes are stiff and comfortable and the pedals have a solid grippy feel. Today was my first "real" ride with them and what ended up happening was the opposite of what I was expecting.
> 
> Initially, I was worried about the climbs. How can I possibly attain the same power and efficiency on the techy climbs with a flat pedal? Won't I be fumbling and stumbling and not cleaning the climbs anymore? Surprisingly, it didn't turn out that way. Sure, I'm probably a tad less efficient, but it wasn't all that noticeable. The shoes seemed to dig into the pins when I really needed them to and I realized the crux of the battle in conquering climbs lies in your endurance level and how much suffering you can actually take. Shoes, cleats, pins and pedals be damned. The problem for me became apparent on the downhills.
> 
> ...


I did similar. Except did it when i was more like 45. I started on BMX back in the 70's-80's era so learned to ride flats and bunny hop and jump etc. but when I transitioned to Mountain bike I also made the jump to toe clips. When SPD's came out I was first in line and actually modified a pair of hiking boots to use the pedals as shoes weren't yet available. From that first pair of clipless in 1990 to 2015 I rode on all varieties of SPD type pedals, from Shimanos, to Bebops, to crank bros, and then back to Shimanos. 

Then I moved to the PNW and decided to give flats a try as I was riding with my kids on trails and preferred something I could hike in whenever I needed to rescue them or whatever. I started using just vans old schools as my shoes and found they were great for what I needed them for. As the years progressed and the kids got faster, my feet started to get sore as we were doing more technical trails and I was doing all the drops and skinnies and such on our local trails. I bought some Ride concepts to try and it felt like I regressed. I had the same feeling as you, like in technical stuff I had a harder time keeping my feet on the pedals, but I figured it was just something I needed to get used to. Eventually (at least a year of riding) I was at a store and bought Fiveten freeriders, not the pro version, a gave them a try and it was like being back on the vans but with way better grip and control. I found that for my riding style a more flexible shoe on flats was the ticket, even though all those years of clipless I found that a flexible sole made riding much less enjoyable for both skills and comfort.

Just a data point (Also I ride a full rigid bike as another data point) but if the fiveten pros are really stiff you might try a more flexible shoe and see if it makes a difference. For me it is a huge aspect of technical riding.


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## tomboyjr (Jul 16, 2009)

I will echo what most here have said. 20 or more years on clipless. Switched to flats about 10 years ago. In my case, I had trouble with steep technical climbs. With clipless, I would lift the front over a root or rock, then use the pedals to lift the back wheel over. It took a year before I was as good on flats as I was with clipless pedals. And I will never go back. Actually last winter I tried clipless again for about 6 months to really give it a good try. I didnt see any difference in smooth climbing, and was nervous in the technical stuff. Another bonus is flat shoes are so easy to walk in


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

rockcrusher said:


> I did similar. Except did it when i was more like 45. I started on BMX back in the 70's-80's era so learned to ride flats and bunny hop and jump etc. but when I transitioned to Mountain bike I also made the jump to toe clips. When SPD's came out I was first in line and actually modified a pair of hiking boots to use the pedals as shoes weren't yet available. From that first pair of clipless in 1990 to 2015 I rode on all varieties of SPD type pedals, from Shimanos, to Bebops, to crank bros, and then back to Shimanos.
> 
> Then I moved to the PNW and decided to give flats a try as I was riding with my kids on trails and preferred something I could hike in whenever I needed to rescue them or whatever. I started using just vans old schools as my shoes and found they were great for what I needed them for. As the years progressed and the kids got faster, my feet started to get sore as we were doing more technical trails and I was doing all the drops and skinnies and such on our local trails. I bought some Ride concepts to try and it felt like I regressed. I had the same feeling as you, like in technical stuff I had a harder time keeping my feet on the pedals, but I figured it was just something I needed to get used to. Eventually (at least a year of riding) I was at a store and bought Fiveten freeriders, not the pro version, a gave them a try and it was like being back on the vans but with way better grip and control. I found that for my riding style a more flexible shoe on flats was the ticket, even though all those years of clipless I found that a flexible sole made riding much less enjoyable for both skills and comfort.
> 
> Just a data point (Also I ride a full rigid bike as another data point) but if the fiveten pros are really stiff you might try a more flexible shoe and see if it makes a difference. For me it is a huge aspect of technical riding.


Interesting. Yes I will keep that in mind about a more flexible shoe. To be honest, when riding Shimano XT clipless all these years, it was on the stiffest shoe I could find; Sidi Dominator's - almost like a roadie shoe! The 510 Pro's feel pretty darn flexible compared to what I am used to. I appreciate the encouragement and I am definitely planning on a long learning curve. I think step one in all of this is to do some laps on some downhill trails that won't kill me so that I can get used to maneuvering around in the flats.


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## jokermtb (Mar 11, 2004)

I've always struggled with clipless, as I'm a bit duck-footed (not enuff roomb in the womb)....Had to angle my cleats to the max, ran thin washers on my pedal threads to get em outboard a few extra MM's, cut away shoe sole material, etc. I was an early adopter in the early 90's and had a series of shimano spds, until I threw some tioga MX platforms on my bike, in preparation for a 4x race. Had a great race (came in 2nd) and loved the foot-freedom of the platforms. So much so that I ditched clipless forever (almost 25 years now) and never looked back. Yeah, your feet will get bounced up and out of the pedals, you will get gouged, and your friends will think you're weird, but I think it's great we have nowadays such a great alternative (five ten freerider pros and Kona wah wah 2 alum pedals are my nirvana combo)


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## phorest (Jul 29, 2009)

Check out Ryan Leech's [free] "flat pedal challenge" for some great drills to learn flats: https://www.rlc-mtb.com/products/the-12-ride-flat-pedal-challenge
[i think you have to create an account to see it.]


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## bfdnelson (4 mo ago)

Ptor said:


> In my 50’s, over the course of a year or two, I tried out flats for a ride or two and all I could think was “I’ve just wasted a ride”. I was busy then and a wasted ride just flat out sucked (pun intended), so I’d immediately go back to my clipless setup so as not to waste anymore rides. Now in my 60s and retired, but I still don’t want to waste a ride so I stay with my clipless setup. I don’t see my friends who ride flats having more fun than I do and they’re always behind me so I don’t see them anyway (pun intended again). I just don’t get this “you have to learn how to ride correctly” then flats will be good business. Maybe when I’m in my 70s I’ll have lost the skill to unclip when needed and flats will become a necessity. Yes, I’m sure I’m not riding as rad as you are (says every flat pedal rider everywhere) and if I did I’d need flats (and shin guards).


Flats -vs- clipless is akin to hardtail -vs- full suspension. There's a time and place for both, and most of us have a preference to one or the other. Although I ride flats (and it has nothing to do with being rad 😛), I've argued on behalf of clipless before. But they're just not my thing.

Learning to ride correctly on flats is a very real thing, but due to aspects that don't exist or are less apparent when riding clipless. It's certainly not a judgement against those who ride clipless. The poster's comments about descending bumpy tech is a great example of this. Apply the same approach to hardtail -vs- full suspension going down bumpy tech and similar difference will come to light.

It's pretty cool that mountain biking has so many technologies that allow us to pick and choose gear based on our styles and preferences. 😀


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## TwiceHorn (Jun 18, 2014)

AEyogi said:


> There is a technique to scooping the back foot to keep the feet locked on. Generally I ride with both heels dropped, but if I am going off a jump or through a rough rock garden, with pedals level, I slightly lift my back heel, and push both feet into the pedals horizontally, which locks them in. It is like you are bracing with the front foot to try to push the back pedal towards the rear wheel. It does not have to be a lot of force.
> This technique works also for when you need to lift up the back end of the bike or to keep constant pressure on the pedals when climbing tech.


Yep, I saw this technique on Kyle & April where you drop your heel on your front foot and actually drop your toes on your trailing foot and kind of wedge yourself between the pedals. I think that does a better job of letting you stay centered on your bike, while dropping your heels on both feet may tend to bias you a bit rearward. I am fooling around with the technique on more level chunk.


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## Neuner (Feb 14, 2005)

I like pizza.


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

I never have issues really with my feet moving around but maybe once or twice during a ride if that. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## Brules (Jul 10, 2021)

I have a set of Yoshis as well, and as a few others have said - the pins are not impressive. If you have a harder soled shoe they won’t “bite” well. My bontrager shoes grip MUCH better than my 5/10s as it’s a much softer compound. I’m going to swap mine out for some Tmacs or DMR Vaults.


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## bfdnelson (4 mo ago)

Brules said:


> I have a set of Yoshis as well, and as a few others have said - the pins are not impressive. If you have a harder soled shoe they won’t “bite” well. My bontrager shoes grip MUCH better than my 5/10s as it’s a much softer compound. I’m going to swap mine out for some Tmacs or DMR Vaults.


Can the Yoshis accept pins from a different pedal? 

I'd never considered that option until now. I like my chromag pedals, but the OneUp pins worked better with my shoes. I'll have to check that after work...


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## TheInfiniteRoller (May 12, 2014)

Well, it was only a matter of time. I'm about 5-6 rides in with the flat pedals and on the 2nd ride, I smacked my shin on a pin hopping over a concrete ditch that was never an issue with the clipless. I bought some shin guards which have given me a little more confidence. Anyway, no doubt I am having fun as I learn how to navigate in flats and I'm beginning to feel more planted on the rougher stuff. The downside of course, is how reluctant I am of attempting many of my regular trails and sections that are second nature to me in clipless. I know this will change as I keep forging on with the flats. I really am enjoying the simplicity of the pedals and the freedom they add to the ride. 

That said, any minor "air time" I may have been able to claim before with my clipless pedals is all but completely gone now! lol! Really, it's as if I am a total noob when it comes to bunny hopping, or popping on a modest jump. I am also much more hesitant on drop-offs when both wheels leave the ground. Were the clipless pedals really covering up my lack of skill in these areas so fully and completely? It appears to be so.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

TheInfiniteRoller said:


> View attachment 2001384
> View attachment 2001385
> 
> Well, it was only a matter of time. I'm about 5-6 rides in with the flat pedals and on the 2nd ride, I smacked my shin on a pin hopping over a concrete ditch that was never an issue with the clipless. I bought some shin guards which have given me a little more confidence. Anyway, no doubt I am having fun as I learn how to navigate in flats and I'm beginning to feel more planted on the rougher stuff. The downside of course, is how reluctant I am of attempting many of my regular trails and sections that are second nature to me in clipless. I know this will change as I keep forging on with the flats. I really am enjoying the simplicity of the pedals and the freedom they add to the ride.
> ...


I think there is just an adjustment period to learning to adapt to locking your feet onto flats, and then getting the confidence back in the new setup. Learning new stuff is fun.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

It'll all get better! The more time you spend with the wheels off the ground, the more second nature it'll become. You know it, it's just different when your feet aren't attached. It'll come


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