# New Female Rider wtih handle bar height questions please help!



## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

Per my wife... She has been riding a Walmart $200 Schwinn she actually really liked but wanted to step up into something a little stronger for trail riding. I recently bought a Small Specialized 650B pitch ( I am 5'4" short legged) and she picked up the Jynx 27.5. At first she loved the bike other than the fact her disk brakes suck compared to mine (Both appear to be the same setup) and we are told hers need to break in more.. why not mine s both are new? Mine stop on a dime and they are not hydraulic. She is noticing she is leaning more forward on this bike which is a Medium in womens. She is 5'4" (longer leg than me) and sat on boht the small and Medium and the bike shop recommended the Medium for her height. After a few days of riding she is noticing she is bent over more than usual and her shoulders are starting to hurt some. Is this normal? I am thinking she using or muscle to support her self and this is what she is feeling and should go away with time) I assume this bike has a more aggressive stance over her walmart Schwinn mountain bike. She said it almost feels as if the handle bars are to low making her lean forward. I notice the same with mien but it feels normal to me. My guess is she needs to get used to a bike with a more aggressive stance but maybe I am wrong. Please chime in with any advice as we are both VERY new to this game but are looking forward to enjoying it. Thank you!


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## Rae6503 (Jun 30, 2009)

I'm guessing people are going to recommend a bike fit, but a full real bike fit will cost a over $100 and then you have to buy the recommended pieces. Can you take it back into the shop and ask them what they think? Is the stem angled down? If so it can easily be flipped to angle up. You could also get a different one with a bigger angle or longer length. Also make sure she's riding with her elbows bent and her upper body as relaxed as possible. And a little bit of weight training wouldn't hurt anyone.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

BG78 said:


> Per my wife... She has been riding a Walmart $200 Schwinn she actually really liked but wanted to step up into something a little stronger for trail riding. I recently bought a Small Specialized 650B pitch ( I am 5'4" short legged) and she picked up the Jynx 27.5. At first she loved the bike other than the fact her disk brakes suck compared to mine (Both appear to be the same setup) and we are told hers need to break in more.. why not mine s both are new? Mine stop on a dime and they are not hydraulic. She is noticing she is leaning more forward on this bike which is a Medium in womens. She is 5'4" (longer leg than me) and sat on boht the small and Medium and the bike shop recommended the Medium for her height. After a few days of riding she is noticing she is bent over more than usual and her shoulders are starting to hurt some. Is this normal? I am thinking she using or muscle to support her self and this is what she is feeling and should go away with time) I assume this bike has a more aggressive stance over her walmart Schwinn mountain bike. She said it almost feels as if the handle bars are to low making her lean forward. I notice the same with mien but it feels normal to me. My guess is she needs to get used to a bike with a more aggressive stance but maybe I am wrong. Please chime in with any advice as we are both VERY new to this game but are looking forward to enjoying it. Thank you!


Why not take a measure of the wally world bike's bar to saddle height diff and try to reproduce it on her new whip? Just keep in mind...like you've stated...the wally world bike might not have that aggressive stance of her new whip. In fact, I'm pretty sure it doesn't, so performance might be hindered if you try to mimic her old bike.

The other thought is fitness...
As she progresses and upgrade bikes, is her body following the progression to handle more bike? If not, perhaps it's time to look into additional work off bike...like yoga (don't scoff at this as I now a number of pros going to yoga to help their riding)...which will help endurance and riding ability, because she'll simply be able to muscle the bike better.

As for brakes, if her's is hydro, rebleed them if they feel spongy. They should feel "slower" than your brakes...as tho the lever is being pulled thru molasses...but they should have a definite stop to them...unless they're the XTR servo wave. If they don't then there's air in the line/system. I'd go get a bleed kit and do it yourself as a shop visit will prob cost MORE than the bleed kit. Then, hop on YouTube to see how it's done...LOVE YouTube for stuff like that...rebuilt my Reverb from YouTube instruction videos! 

Edit: BTW, I typically like to set the bike up w/ grips and saddle height being equal, as a starting point. If running a dropper, this would be max extension point and it drops from here.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

I would also come in and say that I have heard of many bike shops pushing the larger frame when people straddle the mid point because...well I'm not sure why. For many people, especially a beginner a smaller bike might be more manageable as it will be snappier and require less body english to drive efficiently than a larger frame. However as she becomes more proficient the longer frame will be more stable at speed and be a better fit. 

I too recommend measuring the cockpit of the old bike and trying to replicate it with a stem and spacers under it. You can pick up a cheap performance brand stem or take off stem from a shop and see if it makes as difference. As she gets more experienced you can swap the old bar back.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

Not sure how much this helps but I am going to play with her seat height tonight. Her old bike ran kinda low compared to the new. In the pictures you can see the old budget model purple Schwinn she used to have and just behind that is her Specialized Jynx bike she just got. The Schwinn did not seem to bother her shoulder or elbows but it makes me think she was in more of an upright posistion.. maybe that bike was more of a lifestyle bike than an actual mountain bike?


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

WEll I wrote up a rely that did not make it.. in the link you can see the difference in her old purple schwinn that she was used to and the new Jynx in the background. Both of us are 5'4" so short ppl. The XXL in the belongs to my 6'6" buddy lol.

https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/...5547081_2692460143761313083_n_zpsonhrnahm.jpg


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

BG78 said:


> Per my wife... She has been riding a Walmart $200 Schwinn she actually really liked but wanted to step up into something a little stronger for trail riding. I recently bought a Small Specialized 650B pitch ( I am 5'4" short legged) and she picked up the Jynx 27.5. At first she loved the bike other than the fact her disk brakes suck compared to mine (Both appear to be the same setup) and we are told hers need to break in more.. why not mine s both are new? Mine stop on a dime and they are not hydraulic. She is noticing she is leaning more forward on this bike which is a Medium in womens. She is 5'4" (longer leg than me) and sat on boht the small and Medium and the bike shop recommended the Medium for her height. After a few days of riding she is noticing she is bent over more than usual and her shoulders are starting to hurt some. Is this normal? I am thinking she using or muscle to support her self and this is what she is feeling and should go away with time) I assume this bike has a more aggressive stance over her walmart Schwinn mountain bike. She said it almost feels as if the handle bars are to low making her lean forward. I notice the same with mien but it feels normal to me. My guess is she needs to get used to a bike with a more aggressive stance but maybe I am wrong. Please chime in with any advice as we are both VERY new to this game but are looking forward to enjoying it. Thank you!


Not sure what type "bike shop" you were at but even in a women's specific bike there should be no way @ 5'-4" she'd be in a med frame! Even with the "Enduro" movement nowadays to get a bigger frame, "normal" reach wise, and scale it back with a shorter stem.

My $0.02 worth anyway. YRMV...


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

JMac47 said:


> Not sure what type "bike shop" you were at but even in a women's specific bike there should be no way @ 5'-4" she'd be in a med frame! Even with the "Enduro" movement nowadays to get a bigger frame, "normal" reach wise, and scale it back with a shorter stem.
> 
> My $0.02 worth anyway. YRMV...


Could be but doesn't that vary between bikes? She got on a small and felt uncomfortable. Two ppl in the shop said the small was to small for her. One of the guys seemed to really know his stuff and rides often because he loves it.. older guy who seemed experienced. For what it's worth the Girls Medium almost measures out to the same as my small. She said on the small she felt like her knees were coming to far forward towards the handle bars. Am I wrong in thinking that a Womens Medium frame isn't the same 15.5" small frame the men's is? We are identical in height. Forgive me as I am still learning.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

One other thing I should have mentioned.. my girl and I are both 5'4"... but her legs are way longer than mine.. its weird.. but don't tell her I said that because I do enjoy them lol.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

At 5'4" she should be on a small. No way I would recommend a medium. My GF is 5'6" and she rides a small on all her bikes. I'm 5'8" and we both have the same inseam.


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## Tier1 (Apr 26, 2015)

Where is the stem in relation to where you have the seat? Is it lower like XC racers typically have theirs setup? Can you put more spacers on the steerer tube and run it higher? Otherwise if it's at the top you might have to get a new fork ($$$) and cut the steerer longer or you could possibly run riser handle bars (ie. www.wigglestatic.com/product-media/5360082926/2012_HBR_ATL_HRS_BLK_WHT.jpg?w=1500&h=1500&a=7 not as much but it's still $$). We'd almost need pictures but even then sitting in front of a computer screen and making suggestions is no replacement for a proper bike fit at a shop.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

If she's 5'4" and has legs longer than her male counterpoint, chances are she needs a large frame in height but a small or medium in length. Such is the problem with standardized frames, they don't account for those of us that are well off the normal leg VS torso/arm length ratio.

From the OP's info, sounds like she is long legged with a short torso, which is a fitment nightmare. Female specific frames help, but some still have to make major component adjustments.

OP, what it the stem length of the bike?

If the shop fitted her for standover height (matching frame size to her inseam) and it's a female specific bike, you merely need to work on changing the bar position via stem spacers, stem length, stem angle, and rise of the bar. 

Start by checking the position of the handle bar. Most bikes have the bars set with the grips as high as they can go, essentially level to the horizon. Proper position of the bar rotated slightly to the rear. Check this, and if the bas is set level, rotating it back will bring the grips closer to the seat and her position will come up a bit.

Next, adjusting the stem on the steerer tube is a cheap fix, but not always what is needed. The height may be good, but the stem is too long, stretching out the rider. Adjusting the stem up in this situation will bring the rider's back up a bit straighter, but will only marginally move the grips rearward, leaving the rider still overstretched. Raise the stem if it helps some, but deal with the stem length if she still feels ovestretched.

Same with riser bars. Getting a taller bar will bring the hands back a bit when the bar is set at the proper position (rotated back), as well as bringing them up, but this never solves the issue of having an overstretched upper body.

Last, if her previous bike had her sitting straighter than the position one would normally assume on an XC frame, there is a learning curve and adjustment period.

Search "proper XC frame position" in google images for how she should appear on her bike. Typically, the arms should be close to a 90º angle to the back. I could go on all day about fitment, but honestly, you can google that and get damn close to a perfect fitment without paying for a professional fitting, which I do suggest if you race, or put some very serious time in the saddle.


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Apologies I may be off on size comparison. If she didn't feel right on the small (as long as it was adjusted correctly for her during the test fit/ride)and liked the med better, then that's the best fit.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

I agree.. and I think because of her long legs the medium just made more sense to her and may have to go through a true fitting. I am less picky but I also have not been riding and she has..


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Flamingtaco said:


> If she's 5'4" and has legs longer than her male counterpoint, chances are she needs a large frame in height but a small or medium in length. Such is the problem with standardized frames, they don't account for those of us that are well off the normal leg VS torso/arm length ratio.
> 
> From the OP's info, sounds like she is long legged with a short torso, which is a fitment nightmare. Female specific frames help, but some still have to make major component adjustments.
> 
> ...


Great info


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

Flamingtaco said:


> If she's 5'4" and has legs longer than her male counterpoint, chances are she needs a large frame in height but a small or medium in length. Such is the problem with standardized frames, they don't account for those of us that are well off the normal leg VS torso/arm length ratio.
> 
> From the OP's info, sounds like she is long legged with a short torso, which is a fitment nightmare. Female specific frames help, but some still have to make major component adjustments.
> 
> ...


Something I wanted to mention is the stem on her bike is much longer than mine. My Stem on my 650B Pitch Small is pretty short. Her stem looks almost as long as my buddies XXL Rockhopper. I ran her seat as far forward as I could within the range allowed.. but now I am wondering if a shorter stem would help. It would be cheap to try but I am not even sure which one to buy that would fit her bike.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Your shop should have some shorter stems for her to try. Makes sense for long legs and short torso.


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## fsrxc (Jan 31, 2004)

if her bike has a setback seatpost then a straight seatpost may be needed to get her saddle far enough forward.

Most LBSs have a collection of stems to try to find the best length.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

Thanks guys.. I think we are finally getting some where.. also if you look further up the post I put in a while back with a link to pictures of the bikes shows her old Schwinn she was used to and the new Jynx behind it. You can tell the Schwinn was setup for a more relaxed straight up ride and I think some of it is her getting used to it.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Not sure why a shorter torso person would want a bike with a longer reach? What's her inseam?

Looking at the smaller bikes in the pictures...the saddles are all pretty low. If they were extended pretty high...then I'd suggest moving up to a size.

What am I missing?

My GF is 5'6" with a 30 inseam. She rides a small Niner...and Niners tend to run big. I can't picture a 5'4" rider on a medium. Unless the Jinx medium is the same as a small "mens" model.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

RS VR6 said:


> Not sure why a shorter torso person would want a bike with a longer reach? What's her inseam?
> 
> Looking at the smaller bikes in the pictures...the saddles are all pretty low. If they were extended pretty high...then I'd suggest moving up to a size.
> 
> ...


Yup.. her Medium is almost idnetical to my mens small and i mean VERY close.. the only difference I can find is her stem is longer than my stem. If she had a short stem the bikes would feel nearly identical.

We are still learning about saddle hieght and we had just bought the bikes in those pictures so they had not been setup. The saddles are as high or higher than the bars now. She said she feels to stretched out.. she said on the small she felt like her knees were goign to close to the handle bars.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

UPDATE!... I helped my wife set her seat height based on what I have seen in videos and read. I also moved her seat more forward and she says its feeling better.. now what shocked me.. I measured her inseam.. she is 5'4" with a 31" inseam lol.. im 5'4" with a 28.5" inseam. WE are going to do some riding tonight and she is going to let me know how she feels about it.


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

BG78 said:


> UPDATE!... I helped my wife set her seat height based on what I have seen in videos and read. I also moved her seat more forward and she says its feeling better.. now what shocked me.. I measured her inseam.. she is 5'4" with a 31" inseam lol.. im 5'4" with a 28.5" inseam. WE are going to do some riding tonight and she is going to let me know how she feels about it.


No wonder you like her legs! I'm just sayn... I keed I keed.
Anyway bike fit issues aside, pretty cool that you two have passion for the same passion. 👍


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

JMac47 said:


> No wonder you like her legs! I'm just sayn... I keed I keed.
> Anyway bike fit issues aside, pretty cool that you two have passion for the same passion. 👍


We have no other real hobby we do together and this is something we are really trying to do as a couple. We already have a vacation planned end of next month in Fredricksburg Tx which I have read has tons of places to ride.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

My old school bike fit tip I use,

Assuming she feels In the ball park on a particular size frame, 
Stack seems good, Top bar length feels good,
Tooling around the parking lot her torso is at about a 45 degree angle.....

Have her do a pushup, and measure the distance on the ground between her hands outter edge,,this is a good bar width for good breathing and control without going super wide and slowing things down too much or snagging tree's.

Have a third person hold the bike steady for her for all of this, using a wall and a knee is no fun..

Hang a weight on a string over the top of her knee cap on the forward knee pedals level and the weight hangs down right above her foot directly over the pedal axle, (ball of her foot must be on the pedal axle) this will put her forward/aft seat position, 'In the Ballpark',,too far forward can cause knee pain...
I had to go back another quarter of an inch with my seat..

Next the Goal is getting her weight centered while she's in a true (Attack) position.

Start with the saddle top level with the handle bar grips,, again this is a base line.

In proper ride form, elbows bent near 90 degree's, torso down, face/chest about 12-17 inches above the stem,, stay with me..

In attack position when she looks down at the front axle IF she see's the axle IN FRONT of the STEM the stem is too short..
IF she see's the axle behind the stem the stem is too long...

With a too long stem she will feel like going over the bars when decending and tight turns will work her torso and arms real hard,, can yo say 'fore arm pump'
This will also make her feel too stretched out.

A stem that's too short will make climbing very hard and twitchy, her front wheel will lift so fast she may go over backwards. This will also make her cockpit feel cramped, making her feel like she is perched way up high on the bike, bad for balance.

Small 10mm length changes make a BIG difference, I started with a stem that was 100mm long and had a 6 degree rise.
I tried a 75mm/17degree rise and could not climb..
I settled on a 90mm stem with a 17 degree rise. The rise was like having a shorter stem and kept me on my flat bar

Stem Comparison Tool | yojimg.net
Play with that, It's very cool 

A good frame fit should land her seeing the handle bar covering the axle with a stem length in a range of 70 to 100 mm with out much more than a single digit rise (6-9mm rise) while she is in a true RIDE position not sitting back arched up tooling around a parking lot,,,

After doing all these things make small 1/4 inch adjustments one at a time here and there and she should be fine..

Your goal is to get her feeling centered on the bike, heavy on the pedals and light on the bars remember ?

Man It's getting deep around here, my point is I got a free pro bike fit when I bought one bike and on the next I did It myself and It worked just as well..

I ride a flat bar.... oh and Carbon really really helps with hand and finger pain and numbness and fore arm pump by filtering out Hi frequency vibrations,,,
I will never ever ride an aluminum bar again ~

My Local bike shop let me take four used stems home for a few weeks to ride them. I didn't even buy my bike there but I do buy parts there,, That's one of the signs of a good shop.....
I paid for the one I liked, a good shop should have several used for fit try outs.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

The stem covering the axle is roadie crap and not applicable to mountain biking.


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## drumstix (Dec 31, 2003)

Can you measure the stems on both of your bikes? Center to center and in millimeters please. Lol

Since yours is short and wifeys is longer you could try swapping the stems out just for grins. 

Sounds like she might need a 50mm or less in length and perhaps a little bit of a rise might help. You could also add some riser bars too but first lose the long stem.


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## JMac47 (Apr 23, 2004)

Travis Bickle said:


> The stem covering the axle is roadie crap and not applicable to mountain biking.


Well, I think you mean handlebar burying the axle, but yes road, and old school mtb.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

drumstix said:


> Can you measure the stems on both of your bikes? Center to center and in millimeters please. Lol
> 
> Since yours is short and wifeys is longer you could try swapping the stems out just for grins.
> 
> Sounds like she might need a 50mm or less in length and perhaps a little bit of a rise might help. You could also add some riser bars too but first lose the long stem.


Yeah that is exactly what we were thinking just to see. I did find out her frame is a 17" which seems a little big for her height but the small felt all kinds of wrong for her. I have talked to guys my height that prefer a medium over a small. I guess we are all built differently.


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## drumstix (Dec 31, 2003)

I just looked at the specs from specialized website. The bike is spec'ed with a 80mm stem. 
I would try a 50mm or less.


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## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

She's should be using a small for her height.


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## chuky (Apr 3, 2005)

Before you do anything else - is she wearing a chamois? Is she not wearing underwear under that chamois? can she rotate her hips forward onto the nose of her saddle comfortably? Women's reach can be altered by unto two inches by just making sure that the rider has a good quality women's saddle and a proper chamois. See here for a drawing and more thorough explanation.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

chuky,

a man and a woman. both 5'4". Woman has longer legs and shorter torso.


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## blundar (Jan 18, 2013)

I find that for most of my bikes, I usually end up swapping to a shorter stem to be able to handle the descents better and not feel like I am falling over the handlebar. My sweet spot has always gotten me to around 50mm long stem, raising up the stem with a couple of spacers, and pushing the seat back on the rails around 1/2 inch. On my 26er, I even had to swap over to a riser bar to get my cockpit to where I wanted with my posture a bit more upright and my weight a bit further back.

That works for me very well and lets me loft the front wheel as needed. The fine tuning is done on the climbs, if I find the front end lifting too much. I then either slide the saddle forward 1/2 inch, or I can scoot forward a bit on the saddle to keep the front down.

On most new bikes, I like to "dial-in" my cockpit a bit better than what the bike shops typically do. I get a low folding step stool to make this part a bit easier. Use the step stool to help you get yourself on your bike's sitting position and grab the handle bar grips in a normal riding position. Without moving hand positions or shifting your grips, don't move a muscle...

Are your pointer and middle fingers positioned right over the ends of the brake levers and slightly bent? 
Are your wrists fairly straight in a comfortable position?
Are your thumbs right on top of the shifter paddles? 

You will be surprised how often you will need to make some small adjustments and how big a difference they can make. A slight brake lever reach adjustment, and moving brake lever clamps 1/2 inch closer to the stem can put everything at the perfect position for you. 

Sometimes the shifter paddles are positioned up too high. Simply loosen them up and rotate them down to a better position so that you do not need to reach with your thumb so far.


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## BG78 (Sep 19, 2015)

Found out her stem is indeed 80mm .. the one on my bike is 60mm... May do a little switch just to let her try it although I am fine with my 60mm.


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## brusko74 (Aug 7, 2012)

girlonbike said:


> chuky,
> 
> a man and a woman. both 5'4". Woman has longer legs and shorter torso.


Exactly why I think she should use a small frame. You can extend the seat post to accommodate longer legs. And since she has a short torso, the top tube of a small sized frame would be just right. Dial in the fit by choosing a stem she'll be comfy with.


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## blundar (Jan 18, 2013)

BG78 said:


> Found out her stem is indeed 80mm .. the one on my bike is 60mm... May do a little switch just to let her try it although I am fine with my 60mm.


Stems are cheap and very easy for you to do a swap. They go for around $25 on up. I have several stems that I can swap on my bikes, that I can change quickly when I have friends or family that want to ride with me. With a 90mm I find that I am too stretched out and leaning too far forward. With a 40mm it is much better but the steering feels too twitchy. For me 50mm is just right.


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