# Deore DX questions (paging Kuna)



## 415m3 (Mar 16, 2004)

I picked up a parts bike the other day that has a complete and nearly spotless 1992 DX group on it. I'd like to build a bike with it, but part of me fears the horrified gasps and giggles from the crowd because I used something other than XT (although I will use XT thumbies). Hey Kuna, how's that DX group working for you? Can you tell the difference over the XT with it?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

415m3 said:


> I picked up a parts bike the other day that has a complete and nearly spotless 1992 DX group on it. I'd like to build a bike with it, but part of me fears the horrified gasps and giggles from the crowd because I used something other than XT (although I will use XT thumbies). Hey Kuna, how's that DX group working for you? Can you tell the difference over the XT with it?


I run DX rapid fire shifters on one bike, and a DX derailler on another. They both work flawlessly. DX was "okay" stuff back in the day.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

*In many ways DX outshines XT...*

Deore XT was the elite XC race group (prior to XTR). Deore DX was the enduro event trail riders has to work all the time group. I still run DX derailleurs on some bikes as well as DX hubs in a couple wheelsets. DX had more steel/less aluminium in the parts than XT but in many ways the spec's were almost identical. I also still have my 1992 XT STI units (with replacement Ti bolt hardware and Carbonworks carbon fiber lever blades), as well as a set of XT thumbies in my shifter bin but I run suntour thumbies on all my own bikes currently.

- The DX hubs for example, were lighter than the XTs by about 20 grams by dispensing with the boron race inserts and the grease injection port seals which hardly anyone ever bothered to use (let alone owned a grease gun for using).

- XT headsets had alloy cups and 5/32" bearings. DX used steel cups and 1/4" bearings. The current FSA Pig headsets are basically a threadless copy of the old Deore DX headsets.

- Bottom brackets were identical except for code stamped into them.

- Cranks were melt-forged on DX, weighed 566 grams for a pair of 175mm arms, XTs were cold-forged and weighed 520 grams for a pair of 175mm arms. The XT arms also were shaped slightly different and experienced a bit less visible arm flex in usage (under my weight anyways). I still have several sets of DX and XT arms of that era. DX also used seperate 5mm spacers for the inner ring while XT didn't require chainring spacers (they were forged as part of the crank, though long inner ring bolts were still packaged with the cranksets).

- Derailleurs were identical in front except for finish and decals, in the rear the XT got ceramic bushing pulleys and were a few grams lighter in the short (SS) cage length, at 250g vs 256g. The long cage (SGS) models were more substantially different in that both DX cages were steel while XT used steel inner/Al outer, and thus the weight difference was more pronounced at 270g vs 325g.

- Brakes were the same except for model codes stamped into them.

- Chainrings were the same also, with the exception of the DX middle ring was slightly thinner so tiny 1mm spacers were used between ring and spider to achieve the correct distance from middle ring to big ring. Basically you were looking at 40g for the stainless 24T inner, 40g for the 36T Al middle, and about 73g for the for the 46T Al big rings. long Inner bolts weighed about 28g/5 and the shorter outer bolts/nuts combined for 28g/5.

- The seperate SLR Brake levers were the same, again only decals/model codes changed. Weight was the same at about 270g/pair.

- The seperate thumb shifter units functioned the same, and lever/mechanisms themselves were the same except for decals, but the shifter clamps were different. DX got a stamped steel unit and XT cast alloy unit. The weight dropped from 204g/pair to 185g/pair.

- The intergrated STI shifter/brake lever units varied in 1991 with XT getting servowave cams and clear windows (so people could see the cams working), and in 1992 XT went to no windows and rapidfire plus shifters with a push/ pull action (DX got the same servowave cam in 1992 but was still rapidfire shifters with two push buttons).

- The seatposts were both chromoly shaft affairs with pressed in forged aluminium heads. Decals were the only real difference.

- XT platform pedals weighed a bit less than DX's because the cages were alloy instead of steel, but otherwise there wasn't a difference. The XT SPDs (M737s) on the other hand were shaped a bit slimmer than the DXs (M525s) and weighed a bit less, but even at 450g/pair, they were still among the heaviest non-DH clipless pedals that have been seen on mountain bikes. I still run M737s on my Ti-Mega (with Ti spindles of course), and have a pair of M525s sitting in a bin as well. I don't have any of the platform pedals anymore unfortunetly, and wish I'd kept my DX's at least.

- chains were different, XT got the HG90 and DX the HG70. Basically just the outer plate finish was different between them.

- Cassettes came in the same ranges and weighed the same but the XT and its HG90 got a brighter polished finish than the DX and HG70. I don't run XT/DX 7sp cassettes anymore myself but I can still get them from one of my distributors.

Think that sums it all up. Full Groups were 14 component areas and well...shifters, brakes, levers, pedals, post, front derailleur, rear derailleur, chain, crankset, cogset, front hub, rear hub, bottom bracket, headset. Yep, 14.


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## sallen (Dec 8, 2004)

I think this is what you call a detailed answer:



DeeEight said:


> Deore XT was the elite XC race group (prior to XTR). Deore DX was the enduro event trail riders has to work all the time group. I still run DX derailleurs on some bikes as well as DX hubs in a couple wheelsets. DX had more steel/less aluminium in the parts than XT but in many ways the spec's were almost identical. I also still have my 1992 XT STI units (with replacement Ti bolt hardware and Carbonworks carbon fiber lever blades), as well as a set of XT thumbies in my shifter bin but I run suntour thumbies on all my own bikes currently.
> 
> - The DX hubs for example, were lighter than the XTs by about 20 grams by dispensing with the boron race inserts and the grease injection port seals which hardly anyone ever bothered to use (let alone owned a grease gun for using).
> 
> ...


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

sallen said:


> I think this is what you call a detailed answer:


I would agree. Nice work D8!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Deore XT was the elite XC race group (prior to XTR). Deore DX was the enduro event trail riders has to work all the time group. I still run DX derailleurs on some bikes as well as DX hubs in a couple wheelsets. DX had more steel/less aluminium in the parts than XT but in many ways the spec's were almost identical. I also still have my 1992 XT STI units (with replacement Ti bolt hardware and Carbonworks carbon fiber lever blades), as well as a set of XT thumbies in my shifter bin but I run suntour thumbies on all my own bikes currently.
> 
> - The DX hubs for example, were lighter than the XTs by about 20 grams by dispensing with the boron race inserts and the grease injection port seals which hardly anyone ever bothered to use (let alone owned a grease gun for using).
> 
> ...


Wow. But you missed something. The brake pad hardware was different between the two brakes. The XT had a nicer spherical shape to the pad holder and the DX version was cylindrical allowing all the pieces to fall apart if there were no pads on the brake. The XT brakes also used 5mm allens I think to attach the cable while the DX used a 10mm bolt. A lot less likely to have a 10mm open end wrench on the trail than an allen.

It also seemed that the tolerances of DX werent as good. The clicks on the Deore thumb shifters seemed to wear out and become very faint where the XTs would stay nice and crisp. Atleast on the bikes at our shop.


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## 415m3 (Mar 16, 2004)

Holy crap D8!!! Please tell me that you had that written down somewhere and not floating about in your head all these years...and thanks very much for taking the time to write it it for a reply. Still waffling about whether to ride it or box it.


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

415m3 said:


> Holy crap D8!!! Please tell me that you had that written down somewhere and not floating about in your head all these years...and thanks very much for taking the time to write it it for a reply. Still waffling about whether to ride it or box it.


People over the pond who are really meticulous about period correct restos might be willing to pay a pretty penny for a full group in great shape.
Just a thought...


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

floating in my head...good thing i touch type eh?


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## kuna (Feb 25, 2005)

*Dx*

Thanks again to D8 for the information, that guys know alot!

I picked the DX gruppo because it seems more product correct for my 91 Monster Fat. It seems to be built well and simple design. Also, in my quest I have found that it happens to be a little harder to find certain parts (cranks, brakes) when compared with XT, plus they no longer make that gruppo for Mountain Bikes, so to me it makes it just a little more special.

On a side note I am running XT m730 brakes since I was not able to find a complete set of NOS DX brakes from that time period, which worked out better anyway.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

kuna said:


> Thanks again to D8 for the information, that guys know alot!
> 
> I picked the DX gruppo because it seems more product correct for my 91 Monster Fat. It seems to be built well and simple design. Also, in my quest I have found that it happens to be a little harder to find certain parts (cranks, brakes) when compared with XT, plus they no longer make that gruppo for Mountain Bikes, so to me it makes it just a little more special.
> 
> On a side note I am running XT m730 brakes since I was not able to find a complete set of NOS DX brakes from that time period, which worked out better anyway.


So uh...when do we completed pics of that thing eh brotha?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Rumpfy said:
 

> So uh...when do we completed pics of that thing eh brotha?


And when are we going to do a vintage Fat ride?


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> It also seemed that the tolerances of DX werent as good. The clicks on the Deore thumb shifters seemed to wear out and become very faint where the XTs would stay nice and crisp. Atleast on the bikes at our shop.


I found this thread while doing some research on DX parts. I just popped off a set of XT thumbies. The actual shift mechanism is stamped MT62 same as standard Deore. Which is just as I expected. Only the bases are different. I even checked out another pair of original XT shifters and the same thing. Shimano wasn't about to tool up for different mechanisms. They just used a lighter mounting bracket to justify the increased cost.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

lucifer said:


> People over the pond who are really meticulous about period correct restos might be willing to pay a pretty penny for a full group in great shape.
> Just a thought...


oh yeah. I would sell it there. They like DX better than m900 let alone XT. not for being meticulous but plain nostalgia. it's a free world. i keep the xtr and xt and let them have the dx.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

CS2 said:


> . They just used a lighter mounting bracket to justify the increased cost.


oh yeah, xt is lighter and as or more durable but heavier and less durable is always better on a bike.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I prefer the Deore to the DX. I like the matte silver rear derailleur more than the one with the weird rubber detailing/name badge.


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Oh, that 89 Deore II RD is the bomb...you clearly have no taste!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

You are a johnny come lately. BTW, any one have pics of the earlier, nicer Deore RD?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Here we go, much nicer looking.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

DX is bomber. The cranks are a bit wanky, but they do last. The steel thumb mounts are superior.

-Schmitty-


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*The original Deore*

This was their touring groupo


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## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

I have 2 or 3 of those 6 sp deores in the stash...the rubber decal one was a 1 year only part...


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Schmitty said:


> DX is bomber. The cranks are a bit wanky, but they do last. The steel thumb mounts are superior.
> 
> -Schmitty-


I thought the cranks were the same from Deore and Deore II. Gotta disagree with you on those bendomatic mounts


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

richieb said:


> I have 2 or 3 of those 6 sp deores in the stash...the rubber decal one was a 1 year only part...


It looks built to last. What would fail on these?
J


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Here we go, much nicer looking.


I want that bike BP. 
J


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

It is part of the FFB collection. Funny thing, the only bike I have with Deore is a Goat too.

http://tastydirty.com/main.php?g2_itemId=491


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

bushpig said:


> I thought the cranks were the same from Deore and Deore II. Gotta disagree with you on those bendomatic mounts


It's better to bend than to break... and strip.

-Schmitty-


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

bushpig said:


> It is part of the FFB collection. Funny thing, the only bike I have with Deore is a Goat too.
> 
> http://tastydirty.com/main.php?g2_itemId=491












I am really digging that WTR! .....except for the saddle T_T


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Yep, saddle has been replaced. Cranks are Deore. Cantis might be too.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

bushpig said:


> I thought the cranks were the same from Deore and Deore II. Gotta disagree with you on those bendomatic mounts


Original Deore cranks had those huge pedals that only went with their equally ugly crank. The Deore II was a more normal looking crankset.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

I have a set of those cranks. Cool stuff.
J


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

CS2 said:


> Original Deore cranks had those huge pedals that only went with their equally ugly crank. The Deore II was a more normal looking crankset.


no, there was a Deore crankset with normal pedals.

The deore you're talking about was much older, was for road use, and was not related to the off road group by design or chronology.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Yep. I think the group I'm talking about is MT60 or something like that.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

bushpig said:


> Yep. I think the group I'm talking about is MT60 or something like that.


http://mombat.org/Shimano.htm


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

MT60 it is. Damn it feels good to be a Deore gangsta.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

bushpig said:


> MT60 it is. Damn it feels good to be a Deore gangsta.


watch out for the suntour possee.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*More Deore and some Durace ax*

In design pretty trick stuff. In practice I have no idea. Lots and lots of itty bitty bearings in those peddles. The cranks are triple / half step.


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## Farmfield (Jun 27, 2009)

We never had any fully Deore-equipped bikes here (in Sweden) as I remember it, or it wasn't very common anyway... It was either XT or LX on the bikes back then - or mixed, where Deore (II) stüff were part of a setup (and never logically placed, like just cranks or shifters)...

This also gave me the wrong impression that LX was ranked over DX in the Shimano line-up, something that has been with me until recently, entering into the world of 'retro' and when I first realized this error...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

i can't figure why shimano got rid of DX while keeping Ultegra. both occupied the same place. 
lx has more in common w/ 105.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

colker1 said:


> i can't figure why shimano got rid of DX while keeping Ultegra. both occupied the same place.
> lx has more in common w/ 105.


Because XT was Ultegra level, and this was clearer after the introduced XTR, i.e. Dura Ace level mountain bike parts.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Farmfield said:


> We never had any fully Deore-equipped bikes here (in Sweden) as I remember it, or it wasn't very common anyway... It was either XT or LX on the bikes back then - or mixed, where Deore (II) stüff were part of a setup (and never logically placed, like just cranks or shifters)...
> 
> This also gave me the wrong impression that LX was ranked over DX in the Shimano line-up, something that has been with me until recently, entering into the world of 'retro' and when I first realized this error...


There were also two LX's. Mountain LX which preceded Deore LX. Mountain LX was below Deore. But there was a chronological gap between the two I think. DX came about in 1990 I think.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Deore DX was largely discontinued because of poor sales in the 1993 model year. XTR was released for the 1992 model year and did very good sales, but it didn't really affect the sales of bikes with Deore XT or Deore DX. Oh sure some XT bikes became XTR instead, but DX bikes pretty much stayed DX bikes from 1991 to 1992. But in 1993 shimano trickled down a lot of XTR proven features and redesigned all the lower groups from minor to MAJOR degrees.

All the Exage LX groups got changed, and the GS groups were eliminated. In place of oh, six lower level groups (70, 100, and 200GS, Exage 300, 400 and 500LX) there were now four groups (Altus A20, A10 and Exage LT and ES from lowest to highest). They all got low-profile cranks, new push/pull rapidfire plus STI units, ramped chainrings, new low-profile brakes, new hubs, derailleurs and new cosmetic finishes. LX got the most updating though in terms of looks and technology. Deore DX and XT got new chainrings and the new shifters and that was about it. So a lot of bikes that were Deore DX in 1992 got ordered as Deore LX bikes in 1993. With the OEM sales of DX cut about 90%, shimano discontined the group.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Deore DX was largely discontinued because of poor sales in the 1993 model year. XTR was released for the 1992 model year and did very good sales, but it didn't really affect the sales of bikes with Deore XT or Deore DX. Oh sure some XT bikes became XTR instead, but DX bikes pretty much stayed DX bikes from 1991 to 1992. But in 1993 shimano trickled down a lot of XTR proven features and redesigned all the lower groups from minor to MAJOR degrees.
> 
> All the Exage LX groups got changed, and the GS groups were eliminated. In place of oh, six lower level groups (70, 100, and 200GS, Exage 300, 400 and 500LX) there were now four groups (Altus A20, A10 and Exage LT and ES from lowest to highest). They all got low-profile cranks, new push/pull rapidfire plus STI units, ramped chainrings, new low-profile brakes, new hubs, derailleurs and new cosmetic finishes. LX got the most updating though in terms of looks and technology. Deore DX and XT got new chainrings and the new shifters and that was about it. So a lot of bikes that were Deore DX in 1992 got ordered as Deore LX bikes in 1993. With the OEM sales of DX cut about 90%, shimano discontined the group.


You should start a juicy thread: Sales figures, details, and marketshare of Exage, Alivio and Altus in the early '90s.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Fillet-brazed said:


> You should start a juicy thread: Sales figures, details, and marketshare of Exage, Alivio and Altus in the early '90s.


Didn't Exage come in 300, 400 and 500? I thought that the 500 was actually Deore or LX quality.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

See my thread two up... Exage 300LX, 400LX and 500LX, the next step was Deore LX. Exage LX group level became Exage ES/LT which then became STX groups which then became the Deore group.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

CS2 said:


> Didn't Exage come in 300, 400 and 500? I thought that the 500 was actually Deore or LX quality.


I'm not sure about other years, but there were Exage Country, Exage Trail and Exage Mountain groups in 1988 or so. I believe this was before Mountain LX, but I don't claim to be 100% sure. My impression has been that Exage Mountain was the top among the three, and was just below Deore at the time.


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## Farmfield (Jun 27, 2009)

Fillet-brazed said:


> There were also two LX's. Mountain LX which preceded Deore LX. Mountain LX was below Deore. But there was a chronological gap between the two I think. DX came about in 1990 I think.


Yeah, I've seen the Mountain LX stuff, but later on, never back then... But I'm still not clear on if LX were higher ranked than DX - looking at the groupo numbers it looks like DX is higher (6xx) than LX (5xx)...

About Exage LX 300, 400 a.s.o... I never understood companies who offer a ton of different stüff with very small differance's, and then I'm not referring specifically to bike tech though - take cellphones where the only differences between the Frappernachy X5366s and X5433u is reverse bluetooth compatibility in regard to older portable apple computers - and such...

Another thing I don't really get is STX-RC wich had a very hq finish with that smoke chroming, looks better than the Deore DX/LX/XT stuff even... Anyone know why? Looks like good - but heavy - stuff to me... But that's the derailleurs... Their canti's are made of air or similar material, I have a full set in a bag but tied by a string so they won't float away...



Fillet-brazed said:


> There were also two LX's. Mountain LX which preceded Deore LX. Mountain LX was below Deore. But there was a chronological gap between the two I think. DX came about in 1990 I think.


How about the thumbshifters? They are marked Deore - no DX... Or are there DX-branded Deore thumbies also?

Also... If LX is 5xx, DX is 6xx, XT is 7xx and XTR is 9xx... Where's the 8xx groupo? The Deore XT-almost-R? For those who wants to race but aren't allowed by their wifes?


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

Farmfield said:


> How about the thumbshifters? They are marked Deore - no DX... Or are there DX-branded Deore thumbies also?


I believe there were. There's quite a bit of info here: http://www.mombat.org/Shimano.htm


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## Farmfield (Jun 27, 2009)

cegrover said:


> I believe there were. There's quite a bit of info here: http://www.mombat.org/Shimano.htm


I'd been there before but that's a great link... =)

So, Deore '88, Deore II in '89 and Deore DX '90-93...

7sp Deore- and Deore II thumbies replaced by DX thumbies in '90 - but probably the same thing w/ different topcaps.

LX and below aren't Mombat/FFB worthy, hehe, so no info on those... Got a link to a german page with all & any Shimano info from this period though, will post it here when I get back to my laptop... =)


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