# New Shimano "Hone" Groupset



## cannonsnail (Jan 13, 2004)

hi 

not much info - new groupset based on a combination of xtr and saint - for heavy duty xc and trailriding. 

Should be available by november. 

attachin a picture - but don't know if it's going to work

cannonsnail


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

heh. don't think it'll drum up much interest on this board. alot of folks over here use other stuff than shimano. some of the drivetrain stuff isn't bad, but most of the stuff is heavier than much of the aftermarket stuff; and you aren't stuck being forced into using the whole group......


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Yeah, post it in a group where people actually use their bikes for riding


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## AZ Steelhead (Jan 12, 2004)

I got a kick out of that, good stuff.
Thanks


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Well, heck...your here aren't cha? One of the 1st to post even. 

I've been riding/training hard everyday except one for the past 7 days, and prob about the same all winter...have you? 

I hate smartasses.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Duckman said:


> Well, heck...your here aren't cha? One of the 1st to post even.
> 
> I've been riding/training hard everyday except one for the past 7 days, and prob about the same all winter...have you?
> 
> I hate smartasses.


I agree Duckman. Its a shame weight-weenies get the reputation of being poseurs rather than riders. I personally ride no less than 15hrs a week and tackle all types of riding and terrain from smooth boring stuff to the local downhill course.

Trevor!


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

To me that looks like a great alternative for some 12 and 24hr racers, as well as 'adventure racers' to current components. To be honest (and I'm sure a few other wheight weenies out there feel the same), some rides and races we do we know our super light machines aren't going to be practical.(although for the majority they are) 

I think you'll find most wheight weenies will whack on some beefier tires, stronger cranks, and a more bash-proof rear mech if they know there's a chance that they could be stranded out in the middle of nowhere with a broken derailure or stripped crank-arm with 100km to go.... To me the concept of being a wheight weenie is more for the gain of all-round performance, both in bike handling and personal athletic gains (throught having less wheight to push), rather then cutting wheight just for the purpose of saying "my bike is lighter then yours" - thats just a bonus....  

However, having said that, I'm starting to worry about shimano a bit!! They seem to be flooding the market with endless products that are really very specific. Yes, there probablly is a great customer base for a 'freeride' groupset like SAINT, but Hone has got me a little puzzled. Through mixing and matching Saint / XT / XTR stuff you could quite easily build up your own personal version of the 'Hone' groupset around your needs. I guess Hone will just create an easier alternative?? Time will tell I guess!

Cheers, Dave.


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## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Exactly. Lots lurk here. More so then will prob admit. Losing weight for a specific use is what its all about, as you stated. Rarely do I ride my lightest combos for my everyday rides. But, my everyday ride is 24lbs and can handle anything short of LOTS of freeride stuff and DH. The key is matching the right equipt with the application. Anyone with good credit can go buy a production line wonder bike. But even then, many components can still enjoy upgrading or mods. Can you say..."lowest bidder?"...on everything from wheelsets, derailiers, stems, everything. I "like" to tune my rides to fit MY needs. Not anyone elses. Whats it to them anyway? Exactly. I could care a less. 

Duckout


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

You sure have a lot to say on a subject you could care less about. Next time while you're shopping for new parts buy bag of jokes as well. It might just lighten you up some.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

divve said:


> You sure have a lot to say on a subject you could care less about. Next time while you're shopping for new parts buy bag of jokes as well. It might just lighten you up some.


 

Don't people have better things to do other than being critical, annoying and rather petty?


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

It's not an easy question to answer. Certain factors are highly dependent on time, geographic location and sometimes even the weather.


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

*I like it*

Freeriders and such are interested in keeping weight in check too. The Saint crank is rather heavy so maybe the Hone version is a better balance of stiffness and weight. I do wish they still offered trigger shifters. I just do not see the STI jobs making much inroads except on high-end showroom bikes. And I think that is what this new groupset is aimed at - factory spec'd bikes. A Specialized Enduro with this whole kit on it would look pretty hot on the showroom and sell quite well.

It makes more sense to me for Shimano to design their product for specific uses i.e. XC race, XC trail, freeride, downhill, etc. - that is how the frames their components are bolted to are designed. Currently the difference between LX and XT is often very minor and the target use is the same it is just a matter of how much you want to spend. Maybe their new marketing will lead to a refocus of XTR as a pure racing group. As Shimanon gives freeriders a choice it seems XTR will not have to be designed to accomodate them and can shed some weight and expense for the benefit of us all.


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## upNdown (Jan 12, 2004)

*Well I think its stupid*



Motivated said:


> Freeriders and such are interested in keeping weight in check too. The Saint crank is rather heavy so maybe the Hone version is a better balance of stiffness and weight. I do wish they still offered trigger shifters. I just do not see the STI jobs making much inroads except on high-end showroom bikes. And I think that is what this new groupset is aimed at - factory spec'd bikes. A Specialized Enduro with this whole kit on it would look pretty hot on the showroom and sell quite well.
> 
> It makes more sense to me for Shimano to design their product for specific uses i.e. XC race, XC trail, freeride, downhill, etc. - that is how the frames their components are bolted to are designed. Currently the difference between LX and XT is often very minor and the target use is the same it is just a matter of how much you want to spend. Maybe their new marketing will lead to a refocus of XTR as a pure racing group. As Shimanon gives freeriders a choice it seems XTR will not have to be designed to accomodate them and can shed some weight and expense for the benefit of us all.


What's the point? If you can't find your niche between XT, XTR, and Saint, then you've got problems.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

upNdown said:


> What's the point? If you can't find your niche between XT, XTR, and Saint, then you've got problems.


This is what I don't get. Apart from a beefier groupset for downhilling, I don't see a functional difference in a groupset for trail riding. Isn't trail riding just the new word for XC riding anyhow?

here is how I see it:

Deore, LX, XT, XTR = Rational design and suited to all different budgets, needs and wants. (ie budget = Deore, Light weight = XTR)

Saint = Rational design for people who want Shimano Specific build on bike, that will take an absolute beating every run on the DH/FR course

Hone = Rationale??? I don't see it. XT or XTR can go on a trail/XC bike, so can saint and a mix of other bits and pieces. Conclusion is that home = Marketing, to get a few more customers before that already growing trend of non shimano bike builds takes over....

Trevor!


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

Provided you like what they have to offer, Hone would be a perfect group for an Ellsworth Id for instance.


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## carlos (Jan 12, 2004)

well, im not a weightweenie but my bike is as light as my ride style allow it to be. trevor and duckman seems to be my type of rider, im a xc racer and i prefer to sprint and climb with a light and fast bike. BUT there is lots and lots of true weightweenies here that just dont seems to ride their bikes at all. but its their problem not mine. 

there is people out there that eat another people, what is soo strange about people who prefer to shave grams from their bikes instead of ride it?


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## MaLoL1 (Jan 16, 2004)

*I think it´s good for the next XTR*

Before you saw XTR on world cup DH bikes.
Now you´ll see Saint. So there won´t be any downhiller saying "I broke 3 XTR rear derauliers this year"
So Shimano will design the XTR for XC racing. So it will be lighter with the same durability.
So we won´t need to use Dura Ace parts to have a real light bike.

I like lightening my bike but prefer death before using Dura Ace rear der. or a front deralieur that it´s been designed for 53 teeth...

HAPPY TRAILS ! ! !


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

More Hone....


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

...and Saint becomes a complete group. The Shimano guys were even kind enough to include separate brake levers in addition to the Dual Control.


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## eric (Jan 22, 2004)

*Product differentiation (long, sorry)...*

Personally, I don't see any difference (for me) between XC race, endurance racing, trailriding, and all this all-mountain baloney. However, as many bike manufacturers have are pushing hard with more product differentiation, I'm sure Shimano will follow.

While in the past everybody bolted XT or XTR on to their bike - XCer or DHer or whatever - there's a pile of seperate products. Shimano beefs up a couple of XT parts and paints them freeride brown and has the Saint group. On the other hand, it can whittle away more from the XT and particularly XTR groups, without worrying about somebody complainingt about an XC part not being up to the DH task.


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## ctxcrossx (Jan 13, 2004)

*Hmm...*

Can anyone tell me how the rear der. works with the saint group? What if you want to remove the rear wheel? Is there a quick release to take it off so you can actually remove it? Thanks!

Chris


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

*Rear thru-axle design...*



ctxcrossx said:


> Can anyone tell me how the rear der. works with the saint group? What if you want to remove the rear wheel? Is there a quick release to take it off so you can actually remove it?


The design gets rid of the QR. The non-drive side uses an allen wrench in the end to tighten the axle into the threaded "nut" inside the derailleur. The deraulleur has a stop attached that fits into the drive-side dropout to keep it from rotating.

If you have a flat, you've got to unscrew the axle, and leave the deraulleur dangling. Not quick, but then again, if you're racing DH or 4X, it wouldn't matter anyway.


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## AZ Steelhead (Jan 12, 2004)

They are just mixing parts from the other group sets and offering them in a new color (Hone?), not a bad idea, bike manufactures mix groups all the time now it just wont look mixed. So in a way it is marketing, now you wont have a group set in pewter / silver / black, personally I think it's a good idea


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

*I can't believe*

NOBODY has keyed on the Saint SEPARATE brake lever. I'm sure that pretty soon you'll be seeing these sold aside from the grouppo so you can use Rapidfire or Sram triggers.
Me likey


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## Motivated (Jan 13, 2004)

*Motivated*



upNdown said:


> What's the point? If you can't find your niche between XT, XTR, and Saint, then you've got problems.


The difference between XT and Saint is huge. Hone seems marketed to fill the gap, but obviously I don't know the weight and performance specifically to be sure (the crank does look awfully simialar to the '04 XT). What I see is Shimano eventually streamlining their product line. Divide bike and riding styles into 3 categories and make a specific group for it. Saint = downhill, XTR = XC race, Hone = freeride or whatever you want to call the style inbetween going downhill fast and gooing uphill fast. Hopefully this will free the XTR group can achieve truly minimal weight. As it stands not one XTR component is the the lightest. A freerider might say not one XT component is the stiffest so maybe that is the way to justify the Hone. I see the other groups like LX and XT as less expensive and higher weight for more general applications.

Then again, maybe it is just so Shimano can charge even more for MTB components. (Why are they so much more than road stuff??)


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## divve (May 3, 2002)

What I'd like to know is who came up with the latest round of names? Saint....Hone.....and the new XTR will be......Weenie.....


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## Ultra Magnus (Jan 13, 2004)

That's pretty funny lol.. The "weenie" groupset. I wonder what their marketing dep. would say about that..


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## Tarpon (Jan 16, 2004)

*What's to key on...*

The fact that Shimano can paint 'SAINT' on some M756 levers?

I have not seen the Saint 'group' for sale anywhere, only Saint components (you buy the components you want). The brake kit does not even come with levers, you have to decide which ones you want to run and buy them.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

*I think you misunderstood my post........*

Now people will be able to buy a Saint lever and pair it to an XTR caliper and hubset but run Sram triggers and rear der. if they don't want to go with the integrated shifting. 
It's just another option.


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## Tarpon (Jan 16, 2004)

*If I misunderstood you...*

My point is that you never had to by dual control pods. You have always had the choice of which levers to run with for any of Shimanos brakes, XTR included.

Also, I suspect the photo of the Saint lever is promotional. I have not heard of one 
being available. It's the standard M756 with a black lever and 'Saint' on it.


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