# What diameter wheels for 5'3", 110# female?



## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

I recently started cycling again after many years of not having done so to provide necessary PT.

My wife has become interested in joining me, and I want to get her a modern bike.

She is 5'3", 110#, and 50 years of age. Frame sizing definitely needs to be evaluated, but my first question regards appropriate wheel diameter for her?

I can't really appreciate her geometry/strength directly since I am 6'2" and 220#. My new bike is a 29er, and it is not as "agile" as my older 26 HT, and most certainly not in the same ballpark as the BMXers that I rode in the late 70's / early 80's.

One other thing...she wants FullS, mostly for comfort rather than necessity like some of y'all younger folks that ride really hard.

Thank you for your informed input.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

my wife is similar size (an inch taller with a few more pounds) and she hasn't found a 29er she's comfortable on. For her, handling is a pretty secondary issue and center of gravity is huge. For her, on 29ers, she feels far too high and unstable.

She likes small wheels and was shopping last year, when there weren't quite as many 650b bikes available (Liv/Giant and a few other scattered ones). She chose a 26" used Santa Cruz Blur XC and dearly loves that bike.

I know a woman who is FAR shorter than your wife who loves her new 29er hardtail with the RS1 inverted fork. I'm not even sure she's 5' tall, but she does 24hr solo racing, and was at Worlds this year in Scotland. She's found a way to be comfortable on a 29er at her size, and it involved what most would consider to be a bizarre fit. But she had her fitting done by a local pro, and when you see her RIDE the bike, the position looks right for her. It just required a steep angled stem flipped over to get the handlebars (and her center of gravity) down.

Your wife will need to ride some bikes and decide for herself what it is that she wants/likes.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

NateHawk said:


> Your wife will need to ride some bikes and decide for herself what it is that she wants/likes.


She has been using my "vintage" Trek 950 HT w/RS Judy as a stopgap measure, but it's 19" size is too big for her, and she is understandably concerned with the standover height.

I plan to lower the seat as much as possible on my new bike for her to try out FullS, but it is a size XL Spec Stumpy FSR, so it will also be too big for her.

I just bought an SE OM Flyer this morning because I miss my old school Redline Proline BMXer so much. She can try that as well for size even though it is full rigid. The 180mm cranks will no doubt stretch out her legs, which is also a data point for her to understand.

Your input is good, and my expectation is that she will gravitate towards the smaller diameter wheels after not too long on my 29er. I will make sure that she tries an appropriately-sized-for-her 29er as well though, so as to isolate variables.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

no, dude. wrong. there is only one size difference between my bike and my wife's, but she NEVER tried mine out because it just wouldn't fit. if the bike doesn't fit, the data point is useless.

take her to different shops or demo events and get her to try bikes HER SIZE so she can get data points. there is absolutely no reason for her to try anything with 180mm cranks. it will do no good.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Just peeked over at sebikes.com at those Flyers. I didn't realize those were still in production. This 26" looks sweet! :thumbsup:










Now back to our regularly scheduled thread...


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

80Pro-Line said:


> Just peeked over at sebikes.com at those Flyers. I didn't realize those were still in production. This 26" looks sweet! :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is the one that I bought. It won't ever be my '79 vintage 5" head tube Proline, but those seem hard to find these days.

Natehawk, I agree completely. I am working with that which is available. She definitely needs to go actually ride some her size, but there don't seem to be all that many tiny FS bikes around in stock.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

murderman said:


> That is the one that I bought. It won't ever be my '79 vintage 5" head tube Proline, but those seem hard to find these days.


I'm sure glad to have held onto mine all this time. Enjoy the SE!


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

NateHawk said:


> For her, on 29ers, she feels far too high and unstable.


That describes how I felt on my correct for me sized 29er HT,,,

,,, I'm 6 ft tall and long legged.

Am so much happier on my, 
faster,
faster turning,
flickable,
better climbing,
More stable In every condition I ride in way WAY more fun 650b 

I don't need wider bars like I did on my 29er to hustle those bigger
heavier less ridged wagon wheels around tight spots and corners.

Yeah I'm sure stronger more skilled riders can do alot better than I could on the 29er's.
I just didn't have the engines but I will admit spending two summers on the 29er made me alot stonger and makes my 27.5 feel like a 
10 pound lighter model,, both weighed 30 pounds..


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## SoftballGuy (Jan 6, 2014)

My wife is beginner & the same height/weight/age. She wanted a FS also. It took me a few months of checking CL to finally find her something that fit, a Stumpy Elite WSD 26"--women speciific med. size. It's an older 2004 but has a nice fork & shock, more than she will ever need. There is no way i would have put her on a niner, possibly a small 650b,but those are hard to come by used. She loves it by the way.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

80Pro-Line said:


> I'm sure glad to have held onto mine all this time. Enjoy the SE!


I gave my tricked out RLPL away for free with both sets of Skyway Tuffwheels and Arayas back in '89 to a friend who really needed it at that time for basic survival. I don't regret that decision in any way, but I sure do miss that bike now. If you ever see a '79-80 frame and fork for sale, please send me a message.

Thanks to the rest of all y'all for input. I will try to put my wife on as many bikes as possible to help her understand the differences.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

I had a similar dilemma with a similar sized wife. She was not a skilled rider and wanted FS. She ended up loving Turner plushness, and went from a Flux to a 5.Spot. She's not a super strong masher, so she appreciates the quick spin-up of a light wheel. I'm tempted to get some wider rims for her, but it's insane how fast her xc carbon wheels accelerate with just a push.

She started with a ti hard tail before the Flux. We still have these older frames, and nearly every part transfers between all three with the same 26" wheelset and tires to suit.

I think sticking to the smaller wheel size has made her feel a little more confident with less bike to manage. She demoed a Mach 6 and liked it but was not star struck.

FWIW. BTW, congrats on getting your lady out on the trail with you. That's great stuff.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Not the same bike anymore though, get a Standard or S&M you can get a Derailour hanger installed on the Standard and run a 24" frame in a 125r frame. Tell Jess Jon sent you ;-)


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

I would reccomend your wife to ride a 27.5" MTB, specifically if you are looking at FS bikes, look at the Trek Lush, do some reading and video watching about it. It's what my 5'4" 120# wife will be riding this spring. Perfect for smaller women who want to trail ride.


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## mhix01 (Apr 26, 2011)

she's starting at 50? That's awesome. I started when I was 51 (3-1/2 years ago) and I've been loving it ever since. The first time I rode a trail I was hooked. 

A friend of mine got his wife who is of similar stature a Trek Lush fs bike (26") and she loves it.


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

It's not about wheel size, let her try as many different bikes of all wheel sizes until she finds the one that fits her and she feels most comfortable on.


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## LaXCarp (Jul 19, 2008)

My wife is 5'3 and rides a 26" FS (Knolly endorphin, small). My Mom 5'5" (61) rides a 26" FS Trek Remedy. I would suggest the same.


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## DenVen1 (Dec 15, 2014)

IMHO someone who is 5'3 110, a 29er is too big. 26 would be my first choice for her. A 27.5 should work as well as long as the frame is a small/ medium. A good bike shop will allow her test ride many different bikes to have her make the best decision.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> no, dude. wrong. there is only one size difference between my bike and my wife's, but she NEVER tried mine out because it just wouldn't fit. if the bike doesn't fit, the data point is useless.
> 
> take her to different shops or demo events and get her to try bikes HER SIZE so she can get data points. there is absolutely no reason for her to try anything with 180mm cranks. it will do no good.


He's going to agree with you, but, unfortunately not follow your advise.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

The thing about wheel size VS frame size I have found is as stand over decreases and wheel size increases geometry is majorly affected. Proportionately wheel size directly affects handling, as such controll is also a concern.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> He's going to agree with you, but, unfortunately not follow your advise.


Come on now Shawn, is that really a fair statement to make? It is a fool who solicits advice [grammatically correct spelling, BTW] but who does not at least consider same even if he doesn't necessarily agree.

We live near a major metro population center, and I am not aware of any LBS that have a plethora of tiny sized $3k FS bikes in stock for her to go ride firsthand.

I am trying to do research among knowledgeable folks so as to hone in on potential better or best options for her to consider. If that doesn't sit well with you, then please enjoy a happy life otherwise.

Take care, John


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

There's got to be someone who has some. You just may have to take a day and go for a drive. Check out the Juliana bikes from Santa Cruz. They are made for women.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> There's got to be someone who has some. You just may have to take a day and go for a drive. Check out the Juliana bikes from Santa Cruz. They are made for women.


We live in TX, not CA. Please check out this other thread, since you seem to have good insight.

men's versus women's geo


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

My vote is 650b/27.5 wheel size



Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Check out the Juliana bikes from Santa Cruz. They are made for women.


I built an Size XS, 2013 650b (conversion) Santa Cruz Juli 3.3 with a 120 fork for my wife who is 5'1" and petite and she loves it. I had a really hard time finding a bike frame small enough for my pipsqueak wife 

http://forums.mtbr.com/27-5-650b/20...uperlight-xs-650b-27-5-conversion-911119.html

That exact same bike (120 front, 100 rear) is now called the Juliana Origin:

Juliana Bicycles Origin

They have a 130/125 version of the same bike called the Juliana Juno

Juliana Bicycles Juno

Looks like Size Small of either bike would be perfect for your wife.

Here's an action shot of the two 'women' in my wife... all smiles and waggy tales!


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

06HokieMTB said:


> My vote is 650b/27.5 wheel size
> 
> I built an Size XS, 2013 650b (conversion) Santa Cruz Juli 3.3 with a 120 fork for my wife who is 5'1" and petite and she loves it. I had a really hard time finding a bike frame small enough for my pipsqueak wife
> 
> ...


Most definitely some "nice tails" in that pic; good for all y'all!

Thank you for the Juliana links. I am a newb, so would you please explain the relationship between Julianna and Santa Cruz?


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Thru 2013, Santa Cruz made the small and XS sizes of the Superlight and called it the Juli, which is what I built for my wife.

For 2014, SC expanded their line of womens bikes and now calls the women's brand "Juliana". They now make several womens bikes under the Juliana brand.

For all intents and purposes, Julianas are smaller versions of existing Santa Cruz bikes


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Just because the bike company is from Santa Cruz, CA, doesn't mean you can't get them elsewhere in the country. A shop not 2 miles from my house is a big Santa Cruz dealer, and I live in Indiana.

Juliana is a separate brand that started out as a single model of Santa Cruz bike that the company Santa Cruz spun off into a whole lineup when they saw the demand for the bikes.

There are a lot of bike brands available in Texas, somewhere. Austin is a bike hotbed, so worst case scenario you can travel to Austin for a weekend of bike shopping and test rides. But if you live close to one of the other large cities, you'll be able to find a respectable selection there if you're unwilling to visit Austin. I lived in rural TX for several years, so I understand that your local area may not have the best selection. But SOMEONE will. Especially if you find demo events to attend.

She doesn't have to test out the EXACT model she wants to buy. ANY mtb in her size would be a good start. Even if it's a low end hardtail. It would be better than her trying to throw a leg over one of your bikes. After she tries a few, she can hopefully start to make some basic comparisons. Hopefully she'll be able to explain why she feels a certain way about a given bike, which will help to shape her further research.

My wife is perfectly happy on a "mens" small Santa Cruz Blur XC. Fits her better than the Specialized "women's" Rockhopper she used to ride.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Excellent explanation; thank you much.

We'll definitely be checking out the Juliana's.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

murderman said:


> Most definitely some "nice tails" in that pic; good for all y'all!
> 
> Thank you for the Juliana links. I am a newb, so would you please explain the relationship between Julianna and Santa Cruz?


So I just showed my wife this thread and your response... and she goes "seriously? He doesn't know the difference between Santa Cruz and Juliana?" (joking)

Then she proceeds to explain how her bike was the last model year of a Santa Cruz women's bike and how in 2014 they created the Juliana brand and a full line of women's bikes.

At which my jaw dropped in shock and awe.

I think I picked a winner.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

06HokieMTB said:


> ...snip
> 
> I think I picked a winner.


It sure sounds like it.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Emily Batty(5'3"-105lbs) makes a 29er work.....so can OP.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Zachariah said:


> Emily Batty(5'3"-105lbs) makes a 29er work.....so can OP.


Thank you for the input. My wife is a beginner rather than a World Class athlete, and she is also nearly twice the age of Ms. Batty.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

murderman said:


> Thank you for the input. My wife is a beginner rather than a World Class athlete, and she is also nearly twice the age of Ms. Batty.


My much shorter friend who rides a 29er is closer to your wife's age. It's still a valid point. It can work. She needs to try them and make the decision for herself.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

For a smaller beginning rider I would have a difficult time with a full suspension because of the money necessary to overcome the weight problem...probably +30lbs or more.
Getting below 25 will take careful looking and money. 
In a hardtail you could get below 22 lbs. and get some engineered rear vertical compliance. Add a wide rim(30mm inside) wheelset for more comfort and safety/traction. That combo mimics the ride of a 100mm fs bike for comfort. I ride this and it works.
Bikes like the Pivot Les 27.5(XS&S), the Orbea Alma M50 27.5(15.5 S), and Trek Superfly 9.6(15.5 S) could give you comfort and light weight. The Les is expensive and the other two are $2k. The Trek isn't available for a few months.
You also need to get her actual inseam length for fit.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> My much shorter friend who rides a 29er is closer to your wife's age. It's still a valid point. It can work. She needs to try them and make the decision for herself.


I do agree with this statement, as trying before riding is always ideal. However, my wife rode a 29er HT and said she felt like she was on a horse!



eb1888 said:


> You also need to get her actual inseam length for fit.


I would strongly recommend that Competitive Cyclist fit calculator. I kept having lower back pain and, through this calculator, realized that I was riding frames too small. I'm only 5'10", but have short legs and a long torso & arms. I've now realized that I'm essentially 6'2" from the waist up and have to size frames accordingly (while paying attention to standover!)

Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist



murderman said:


> It sure sounds like it.


I am very fortunate to have found my wife. She's a piece of work (in a good way) and I love her very much. In 2012-2013 I was able to get her on a mountain bike twice, maybe three times. (One of those times she had a bad fall and hurt her hip.) In 2014, she rode almost 20 times, the last being on clipless pedals!

The key for me was building her a cute bike that she could be proud of and finding her some girl friends to ride with :thumbsup:


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

Emily Batty is also a professional racer, and highly experienced. She rides a 29r because they are faster than 26 and 27.5.

For a short woman, LEARNING to ride, she will find more comfort and confidence on a smaller wheel size. 27.5" would be perfect. 26" would even be acceptable.

Just because she "can" ride a 29r, doesnt mean she should. A more appropriate wheelsize for learning to ride and enjoying mountain biking for the first time would be either of the smaller sizes.

Women need confidence when learning to ride, especially when learning to ride with a much more experienced friend or spouse. The ability to feel safe and confident on a bike could be the difference between falling in love with the sport, or never wanting to ride again.

My 5'4" wife (who rides/races BMX also), had 2 terrible riding experiences on 29r FS bikes both of her first 2 times mountain biking, because they were too big to handle appropriately. She refused to try it again for 4 years, for fear of more crashes. until just this spring she came out on a ride with me on a 26" hard tail and became open minded about it again.

She has now been out 2 other times on a 26" and 27.5" and we are planning on purchasing a bike for her in the spring, because she finally found something she could enjoy the sport on (Trek Lush 27.5).


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

06HokieMTB said:


> I do agree with this statement, as trying before riding is always ideal. However, my wife rode a 29er HT and said she felt like she was on a horse!
> 
> I would strongly recommend that Competitive Cyclist fit calculator. I kept having lower back pain and, through this calculator, realized that I was riding frames too small. I'm only 5'10", but have short legs and a long torso & arms. I've now realized that I'm essentially 6'2" from the waist up and have to size frames accordingly (while paying attention to standover!)
> 
> ...


Did we just become best friends? lol

Sounds just like my story, I am also very long torso, and short legs (5'10" w/ 29" inseam lol) I ride an 18.5" Trek BTW.

But yea, I got my wife into BMX/dirt jumps because I built her an appropriately sized dirt jump bike that she thought was cute, and enjoyed riding because it was the ride size for her (24" w/ suspension)


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ZenkiS14 said:


> Emily Batty is also a professional racer, and highly experienced. She rides a 29r because they are faster than 26 and 27.5.
> 
> For a short woman, LEARNING to ride, she will find more comfort and confidence on a smaller wheel size. 27.5" would be perfect. 26" would even be acceptable.
> 
> Just because she "can" ride a 29r, doesnt mean she should. A more appropriate wheelsize for learning to ride and enjoying mountain biking for the first time would be either of the smaller sizes.


Who are you to say that? Don't you think an adult should be the one to make the final decision? Some people will be more comfortable on one versus another. I have my preferences and my preferences for myself differ from what a lot of other people prefer for themselves. My wife has her own opinions and has made her own choices, but she made them on her own after trying out a number of different options. Smaller people in general TEND to prefer smaller wheels, but not all of them do. Some still like 29ers, and that's fine. Each person should be allowed to make that choice for himself or herself when there is a choice.


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## Rack Man (Nov 18, 2010)

Heck, my Wife is that exact size and she rocks the 29er and loves it...she has been only riding about a year...bought her an entry level Specialized Bike...Myka


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

NateHawk said:


> Who are you to say that? Don't you think an adult should be the one to make the final decision? Some people will be more comfortable on one versus another. I have my preferences and my preferences for myself differ from what a lot of other people prefer for themselves. My wife has her own opinions and has made her own choices, but she made them on her own after trying out a number of different options. Smaller people in general TEND to prefer smaller wheels, but not all of them do. Some still like 29ers, and that's fine. Each person should be allowed to make that choice for himself or herself when there is a choice.


Im not sure if I should be offended that you might not think I'm an "adult"? lol

However, the man asked for an opinion, as in advice. I am by no means saying anyone to HAVE to ride anything. In my personal experience, of riding for 10 years, instructing, and selling bikes for 7 years, I gave my educated opinion.

Of course he can do whatever he would like, however, since he's posting a thread, seeking advice, I figured a little experience and educated help couldnt hurt.

Should also state that I personally ride a 29r, a big one too, and I do prefer it over 26" and 27.5" for the riding that I do. So I am by no means against 29rs at all. I think they are fantastic. But for someone who has no previous experience or opinion, I am merely helping point them in the direction I believe to be correct. If his wife rides all 3 wheel sizes, and just loves the benefits of the 29r and feels comfortable on it, then by all means, get the 29r.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

The consensus is clearly that my wife [a mature adult, and trust me that she most definitely is capable of intelligent and independent thinking as well as making up her own mind] should try as many appropriately fit cycles with different wheel sizes as are reasonably accessible.

We have only been together for 17 years now, so maybe I don't know her as well as all y'all do, but my suspicion is that she will prefer something smaller than a 29.


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## ZenkiS14 (Aug 25, 2008)

I think you will find your hypothesis to be correct. Good luck shopping, and I hope she finds something that she loves enough to be able to enjoy riding, and look forward to going out with you on rides!!

Check out the Trek Lush though, I highly reccomend it! Its a true, from the ground up, womens trail bike. 27.5" wheels.

Lush Women's - Trek Bicycle


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## spirit4earth (Apr 30, 2007)

I will weigh in as a woman of a certain age and say that she should get a full suspension. I have a hardtail and I love it, but if I had the money (or a husband?!), I'd get a FS. It's easier on your back, and just more comfortable to ride. Although it's true that technique can be honed on a HT, let her ride the FS, learn as she goes, and enjoy the ride!


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## TJay74 (Sep 26, 2012)

I can add some input from my wifes perspective.

She is 5'6" and around 150#, started her on a 26" bike with her never really riding MTB. She struggled with it and had several OTB while trying to roll over roots, rocks and drops. 

Moved her up to a 29'er. She did better getting over roots, rocks and drops but hated the high center of gravity, she said the bike felt slow to get it rolling and to turn. 

This year moved her from the 33# alum HT 29'er to a 26# carbon FS 27.5". the change was immediately noticeable to her and her riding got better almost immediately. She loves the 27.5" bike and said it gives her a lot more confidence than the 29'er ever did.


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## NorthernMN (Feb 18, 2013)

thegweed said:


> It's not about wheel size, let her try as many different bikes of all wheel sizes until she finds the one that fits her and she feels most comfortable on.


+1---this is the key. What he said!


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Spirit4earth, it seems as though you are the only lady to have responded to this thread so far, and your input is most appreciated; the "certain age" characterization is pretty neat, and I will have to remember that one for future use. My wife has never ridden a bicycle other than on pavement because she doesn't care for "the bumps". She also rides a 3x7 speed MTB on the largest front sprocket exclusively. On the other hand, I have been riding things like BMX bikes, enduro motorcycles, 4WD trucks, and 4WD quads offroad for three decades. I currently have four 4WDs including a P/U, a Jeep, a quad, and even my daily driver car is 4WD. I figure that if she gets a FS, then the possibility of getting her on the trail with me is greatly improved.

The Trek Lush keeps coming up in both this thread and another one that I have going, and coincidentally my preferred LBS is a Trek dealer. We will take her measurements based on the link from 06HokieMTB for a guideline as to where to start with sizing for test rides on a couple of bikes. The Juliana has also been mentioned, but I am pretty sure there aren’t any local dealers to provide an actual test ride. Once she figures out what she likes, that brand can be considered based on "paper" geo.

Completely off topic and primarily for the benefit of 80Pro-Line, I received the OM Flyer yesterday. After assembling and adjusting, I have only ridden it a couple miles on the paved walking/biking path in our neighborhood, but I am really liking it so far. For a “BMX” type bike, the geo is surprisingly similar to the my size XL FS 29er. The stack is 4-1/2” less, but with the top loading stem flipped up in conjunction with the taller handlebars, the handlebar height above ground is only 1-3/8” lower. The reach is also only 1-1/8” less. The wheelbase is quite a bit shorter by 5-3/8”, but it is a 26 versus 29er. I am currently running the saddle height about 2” closer to the BB, primarily because I am scared of bending the 25.4mm fluted aluminum seatpost.

Overall, I feel as though SE has done a really good job with the “retro” concept using modern parts. The things like large flange hubs, anodized rims, chrome hex valve caps, gumwall tires, anodized seatpost clamp, fluted seatpost, anodized front sprocket, crossbar, stem, and top tube pads, etc. have definitely evoked fond memories. Some of the “modern” mechanical things include: This is my first experience with a U-brake; it works surprisingly well. Unfortunately, it will probably destroy the finish on the rear rim, but this is a rider not a show bike. The cranks are tubular cr-mo. I could never afford Flights or Cook Bros. “back in the day”, so I ran forged 1-piece Ashtabula because the typical 3-piece aluminum would bend so easily. The headset is 1-1/8” threadless which is vastly superior to 1” threaded, but a really neat thing that SE did was make the spacer hexagonal to “simulate” the typical 1” threaded top nut. The outer bearing races are also anodized. If you like your RLPL as much as I did mine, this is definitely worth considering if you have a spare $569 to spend.

I plan to rotate the OMF into my PT schedule for “strength” training versus primarily “cardio”. A single speed cr-mo all rigid most definitely requires much more time out of the saddle than a 2x10 speed aluminum FS 29er, even for the substantially mundane type of riding that I do.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

There IS a women's forum if you want more female perspectives


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

I also ride a combination of bikes from a SS PHAT Chopper to a 20" BMX to my MTB 26" bikes. For me the variety of different bikes is what it is about, I like to ride different stuff. I even have an old Scwinn speeder I ride occasionally, why? Because it is fun, unique and people dig it is all.


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## iscariot (Oct 24, 2006)

I say go with 24"s.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

NateHawk said:


> There IS a women's forum if you want more female perspectives


Thank you for the heads up; I missed that one when looking through the forum menu.

Is it OK for men to post there on behalf of their wife? I wouldn't want to be interpreted as "some creepy old dude" or anything like that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Lots of guys do but be sure you phrase things well because if you come off like you are not giving her enough say in the matter they WILL rip you for it


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

You'll get ur ass kicked in there!


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

murderman said:


> Completely off topic and primarily for the benefit of 80Pro-Line, I received the OM Flyer yesterday. After assembling and adjusting, I have only ridden it a couple miles on the paved walking/biking path in our neighborhood, but I am really liking it so far. For a "BMX" type bike, the geo is surprisingly similar to the my size XL FS 29er. ...


Thanks for the report back on the OM. You've got a pretty convincing sales pitch there for that thing.  Matter of fact, ever since I looked at that bike online the other night I've been thinking about a cruiser as I've never had one; went directly from 20" to 29". That OM is really sweet and tempting. I've also located locally, a 2009 Redline MX24 for sale and it looks to be about a new as one could be. It's not as nice as the OM but the frame style and retro decal package sure compliment the old Pro-Line. Looks like this. Hmmmmmm.


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

murderman said:


> We have only been together for 17 years now, so maybe I don't know her as well as all y'all do, but my suspicion is that she will prefer something smaller than a 29.


Also be aware some 'Women's bikes' are the same as men's with a stub of a stem and different sticker set. So, don't be too caught up in a gender specific model.

A high end bike is going to be the 650b wheel size in 2015. Pretty close to a 26" wheel.

You and I both know you are on the right path. I hope it's good times for both of you.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

80Pro-Line said:


> Thanks for the report back on the OM. You've got a pretty convincing sales pitch there for that thing.  Matter of fact, ever since I looked at that bike online the other night I've been thinking about a cruiser as I've never had one; went directly from 20" to 29". That OM is really sweet and tempting. I've also located locally, a 2009 Redline MX24 for sale and it looks to be about a new as one could be. It's not as nice as the OM but the frame style and retro decal package sure compliment the old Pro-Line. Looks like this. Hmmmmmm.
> View attachment 951900


When I came to the realization that it might be pretty hard to get my hands on a 79-80 RLPL after several months of looking so far, the first thing that I did was check the RL site for current models including the 24. My concern is that the seat tubes on the modern BMXers are so terribly short for someone as tall as me with not insignificant orthopedic issues.

What put me over the top on the OMF besides the apparent geo was the color scheme; without decals one could almost convince himself that it was a RL from 20' away without having his glasses on.  The PK Ripper 26 also looks really nice, particularly the 2014, but those are limited edition and probably as hard to find as my RLPL. There are some good pics of the 2014 PKR 26 on bmxmuseum; it looks almost exactly like the ones of old, except bigger wheels.

That MX24 also looks very nice. Do you know the seat tube length? On the OMF 26, it is 15", and I currently have the saddle adjusted at 26-1/4" from the BB. On my 29er, the seat tube is 20-1/2" and I have the saddle adjusted at 27-3/8" from the BB. The cranks on the OMF are 180mm versus 175mm on the SJ, so at the bottom of stroke I am only 7/8" closer on the "little" bike, although it increases to 1-3/8" difference at top of stroke. Please LMK if you buy that MX24.

Considering the prices for real deal old school BMX stuff, SE seems to have tapped into an interesting niche market with their "retro" line, and I am fortunately not a salesman...I am an engineer.

Happy New Year, John

ETA - Here is a pic of the OMF configured for a relatively tall older person; it looks reasonably proportionate doesn't it?


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

If I were going the 24" route again I would do a Standard 24 or S&M speed wagon and have a deraiuer mount added. Unfortunately suspension forks are an issue as even a 26" FOX DJ fork is long so a custom head tube angle would also not be a bad idea. That way any short travel 26" fork would be right at home.

Check out my 24"


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

Here is another 24" bike I built for my daughter who is about 5' 4". Started off as a 400.00 bike but added SRAM twist shifters, Shimano cassette wheels with DM24 Alex rims, S&M race fork, race face bars and stem and my old Lazer V WTB saddle also Whipperman chain and 9 Speed 820 Cassette. It rides nice but a little small for me.


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## Z-wave (May 4, 2014)

TJay74 said:


> Moved her up to a 29'er. She did better getting over roots, rocks and drops but hated the high center of gravity.


This is an interesting complaint. One of the biggest reasons to ride a 29er is bottom bracket *drop.* The bottom bracket is located below the centerline of the axle. This actually lowers a rider's center of gravity relative to the wheels. This is where the often-quoted sensation of being "in the bike" comes from.

On 26ers, the bottom bracket is often located above the centerline, raising a rider's center of gravity. This is where the sensation of being "on top of the bike" comes from. In this way, you'd expect the 26er to feel less stable (though there are other factors involved, too).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

murderman said:


> Considering the prices for real deal old school BMX stuff, SE seems to have tapped into an interesting niche market with their "retro" line, and I am fortunately not a salesman...I am an engineer.
> 
> ETA - Here is a pic of the OMF configured for a relatively tall older person; it looks reasonably proportionate doesn't it?


Ha! I too am an engineer.  The OM does indeed look proportionate. I don't know any of the frame specs on that 2009 RL. On my old Pro-Line the seat tube is 10" and the seat is 23" from the BB. It has 185 mm Flights. (It really isn't ridden much though although I did put fresh tires and grips on it a few years back so it remains ready-to-go.)

Even though the MX-24 offered locally is blue, I'd really like to score a white one, the other color offered that year. Look at it compared to my antique. 

















I'll let you know if I get it. It's looking like I've struck a deal with the seller and I'm running over there in a few hours. Dammit, I need this like a hole in the head and it's all your fault! :madman:


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

This thread has gone substantially sideways, but I guess that is OK since I am the OP and the initial inquiry has been pretty well addressed.

That old school cool quite simply makes me drool. If this discussion causes you to spend some $$$, rest assured that you are way ahead of me because I can't even find an old Proline to buy.

Unless it is a really good price, I would probably pass on the blue MX24 and hold out for a white one. In my mind, RLs MUST be white; even the chrome ones aren't quite the same.

Here is a pic of a couple of my other vehicles; the Spec is what they call "dirty white", and the Trek is purple....I don't really know how I ended up with that color 20 years ago.



The OMF was essentially like putting a fix in the face of a crackhead with the $$$ to afford it.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

The guy was asking $275 but will take two bills even. Seems fair enough. Here's a pic from his ad and it certainly seems quite virginal even having all the reflectors and chainguard in place. 

View attachment 952163


Not a lot of money to gamble and I imagine these '09-only retro versions are few and far between. If a white one pops up I can always make the switch later or recolor the blue one.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

For a pair of Franklins, steal it! Even with media blasting, PC, and new decals, it would still be a bargain if you wanted to make it white. Heck, I'll give you a $100 "finder's fee" to buy it and sell to me.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Done deal...



Just wiped years of dust off, removed the chain guard and reflectors. I think I'll put a few miles on it and then send the frame and fork to the local powder coater. This actually solves a dilema I've had since they repopped the 1980 Pro-Line decal set. I bought a set some time ago and then couldn't bring myself to erase the history and patina on my bike. Now, with this MX-24, I can make it look like a clean, shiny, white big-boy Pro-Line. :thumbsup:

Interestingly, the seat tube is only 9.5" from the BB; .5" shorter than the Pro-Line. I put the seat post at the min. insertion point which has it 21.5" above the BB. Cranks are 175 mm.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Looks nice; other than the dropouts and shorter head tube, very Proline-esque.

Are the frame, fork, and bars full cr-mo? 

Is the seatpost 13/16" or 7/8"?

Is the BB the large American style, and does the bottom tube attach off center like the vintage PL?

Sorry for all the questions, but inquiring minds need to know.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

All I can tell you at this point is that the frame just has a Cr-Mo front triangle and the fork has a Cr-Mo steerer tube. Balance is Hi-tensile steel. Weird but being a retro pavement pounder, I don't give a hoot that it's not full Cr-Mo.

I'll look into the other stuff tomorrow. Not having messed with bikes since the '80s, a lot of the 'newer' and current standards are foreign to me.


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## bald dirt bag (Feb 9, 2014)

The new GTs, Red Lines and S&E bikes just as Mongoose are nothing like the original. May look like it but not even close quality wise. People who ride a quality bike now ride other non PBC and QBC brands. Times change so do bikes. I have a Red Line Pro Line Mini from when my daughter rode back in 2005, afterwords I replced a lot of parts due to poor quality and breakage. The hubs and cranks were first to go south then there was a safety recall on the forks, Yada Yada yada.


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## Mattcz (May 26, 2005)

26. I'm 5'2 120#s. No 29ers I have tried have been comfortable. 26 gave me a much better ride than any other wheels. Same for my wife whose 5'1.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

bald dirt bag said:


> The new GTs, Red Lines and S&E bikes just as Mongoose are nothing like the original. May look like it but not even close quality wise. People who ride a quality bike now ride other non PBC and QBC brands. Times change so do bikes. I have a Red Line Pro Line Mini from when my daughter rode back in 2005, afterwords I replced a lot of parts due to poor quality and breakage. The hubs and cranks were first to go south then there was a safety recall on the forks, Yada Yada yada.


Not much modern stuff is the same quality as in the past. I really love my 2010 RAV4 with 270HP, 4WD, and 21MPG actual in town, but it is not at all the same as my '83 RN38 [J-VIN Hi-lux 4WD] or the F70-series diesel Landcruiser [also a J-VIN] that I relied on as my work truck in a very remote area of the Sahara back in the mid-90's.

The box for the OMF said made in China, which is not at all the same as Chatsworth, but the steel is presumably 4130, the welds are nice [probably robotic], the styling is pleasing, the fit of everything is solid, and the price was reasonable; there is a smile on my face.

Is it the same as the Schwinn Scrambler, Roger DeCoster, BMX Products Inc. [Mongoose], or Redline that I used to ride...nope. But it does have some technology improvements. Your daughter's bike was not the same as any of those either.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Yeah, I too realize that this MX-24 is in a different league quality wise than my old Pro-Line. Doesn't matter as it'll be just for bombing around the paved trail system in town; nice, easy cruising. The 29er will be doing all the hard work.

Since I've pretty much decided that a color change is in the wind, I went poking around for some appropriately colored bling to accessorize. Came across a new, take-off Cr-Mo bar that fits the bill. Look familiar? 









And then there's this other guy hawking these. Looks comfy...









BTW, the seat post is 25.4 mm on this. The down tube attaches conventionally and the BB seems to be the large, American style. Cranks are 3-pc. tubular Cr-Mo.










The headtube decal has a nice touch with the dates.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Those bars and saddle most definitely look familiar from my recent procurement. 

The 28" width is only 1/2" narrower than the Gravity Gap raised bars that I put on my SJ.

That saddle is OK comfy for my old lard ass, not quite as much so as the Serfas RX that I am running on the SJ, but much better than the Kashimax that I used to run on my RLPL.

It is good that they upsized the seatpost to 25.4mm like on the OMF. I went to a JMC solid after killing multiple fluted on my old bike. I seem to recall that they were 7/8".

Kind of a bummer that the bottom tube to BB intersection isn't so "cool" as the old PLs and that the head tube isn't 5" with the stiffened race seats, but such is life. Yes, I can visualize every intricate detail of the old bike even after oh my goodness now 35 years!

I put about 3.5 miles on both the OMF and the SJ yesterday; this dude's legs are really out of shape.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Speaking of fluted posts, I just nabbed one of those too on eBay. Another cast off from a new OMF. Since it's longer than what I have now I'll be able to get the seat up a bit more where it needs to be for me. Heck, the entire topside of my MX-24 will be 2015 OMF. Ha!!

I also bought some new red bear trap pedals. That should do it for component swaps as I don't want to get too carried away. The theme here will be red, white and black.

It's not surprising that some of the old PL details aren't present as this wasn't really supposed to mimic that particular model being an MX series bike. Probably closer to the old MX-II. Screw it though. I'm just going to build it, ride it and enjoy it.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Finally got a break from the rain today so I got my first ride on the MX-24. Now I'm really glad I ordered the parts that I did. Aside from accommodating my color change, the longer SE seat post and taller bars should improve my fit. The MX-24 seems really cramped compared to the Pro-Line. (The MX-24 cranks are 10mm shorter too.) I look forward to personalizing the cruiser and running it around some though.

One month ago, the Pro-Line was the lone bike in the garage. It now has a couple buds.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Thought I'd check back in here on this derailed thread and give you a first look at the re-imagined MX-24. I just finished bolting it together. Here it is with the cast-off, black components. Tomorrow will be the first ride! :thumbsup:


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## Mattcz (May 26, 2005)

Cru Jones wants his bike back.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

Wow Greg, that looks _really_ nice! I assume that you PC'd it?

Kinda ironic that this thread got "derailed" with a bunch of SS. 

I am sure you already know this, but if the bike still feels a little smallish with the taller bars, you can flip the stem to get a bit more height. Not sure about the geo specifics of the RL stem, but I got ~1-1/8" when I flipped the SE stem, plus it also looks more "correct" to me that way.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

I'm going to ride it here in a little while but just getting things adjusted after the build it feels a lot better than it did. Thanks for the tip on the stem as flipping it would definitely raise the bars some.

I was just planning on using this bike to cruise the paved trail system here but now I'm seriously considering hitting the local BMX track when it opens in the spring. Got the bug. 

Oh, and yes, the frame and fork were stripped & powder coated locally. Took a week and a half and $100. Not bad.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

The rain finally stopped here this past Thursday evening after nearly two weeks, and I put about 3.5 miles each on the OMF and SJ after work. Like you, my intentions for the SS are the paved paths near our home; I am way too out of shape to try and mash it on the soft ground yet. My wife would kill me if I tried BMX at my age and after multiple spinal surgeries....that is if I didn't kill myself in the process.

I also put about 16 miles on the SJ yesterday with the absolutely beautiful weather [50's and sunny with low humidity]; it was almost all paved, but the last 2 miles were along the canals behind our house, and the ground was so soft that it was granny gear the entire way.

Both rides were good PT, and strength/endurance will build as l keep after it.

It sounds like you are in for ~$400+ on this build so far. That is great, since one can barely buy a set of vintage Flights for that price. Hopefully, the machine works out well for you; now all you need is a 26er BMX-type.


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

Ha! I think this 24" will do for my cruiser kick but I am concerned that I'll get drawn back into the track thing and wind up shopping for a new, high-tech 20" racer. Good grief! 

Here's another MX-24 shot. I had to make a red version of the 35th-anniversay headtube decal since originals are not available anywhere. I made the pads using a blank Flite set and Avery iron-on fabric transfers. I even put my favorite Bob Haro drawing on the stem pad.


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## murderman (Nov 24, 2014)

The decals are awesome...so how is it that you "make" them?


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## 80Pro-Line (Dec 3, 2014)

I used Papilio Inkjet White Vinyl decal material with a laminate overlay.

Waterproof Inkjet Winyl Self-Adhesive Media

I originally bought it to reproduce various small component labels to detail the engine compartment on my Buick GN and it's worked fairly well. They also make a clear decal product but I haven't tried that yet.

The headtube decal is the only one I had to make for this. The others are from my 1980 Pro-Line repopped decal set that I bought about seven years ago.

I did the artwork for the decal and the pads using CorelDRAW software.

I rode about 5 miles earlier on the MX-24 and forgot how much work it takes to go any distance on a single speeder.  When I got back I wound up sliding the seat back further on the rails and flipping the stem. Seems better. Nice that you finally got to ride yours as well.


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