# Handlebar height on a mountain bike



## and_woox (Mar 13, 2007)

*Handlebar height in a mountain bike*

I was adjusting my handlebar height according to some info i got. Basicaly what it said is that your handlebar should be around 3 inches lower than your saddle(saddle is configered properly), i tried this adjustment but its not possible to have this much of a diference in my setup.
What do you think i should look for in terms of saddle-handlebar relative height?
Thanks


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## Ericmopar (Aug 23, 2003)

Wow! That's old school cross country.

Get your seat setup first, then put your bars wherever they are comfortable. 
Mine are about an inch higher than my seat. 
Some like it ultra low, like that outdated racer boy info you somehow got your hands on.
If you're really intent on having them that low, you can flip the stem upside down. Assuming you haven't done that already.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

I think that any fitting info that explicitly states dimensions like that is BS, its all going to vary from rider to rider. Just put them wherever its comfortable to ride, and realize that if you get it either too high, or too low your handling and control will suffer. Just put it where it feels comfy and the bike is responsive to your riding style.


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

Depends on the type of riding you are doing - if you are primarily an all mountain rider your bars will be higher than your saddle, generally. It also depends on the dimensions of the rider too. A really short rider may find it hard to get the bars low enough. 

For XC and trail riding, level with the saddle height is a good starting point, and you can fine tune from there.


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## TLL (Apr 28, 2008)

My bars are level with my seat, but my bike is set up more on the DH side.

What bike are you riding? How much rear/front travel?


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## Phil (Jan 12, 2004)

Sideknob said:


> For XC and trail riding, level with the saddle height is a good starting point, and you can fine tune from there.


ditto. start here, nice safe place. make adjustments after a ride or two if you feel a need.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Three inches below seat for me is a lot, altho I too remember when you'd get that kind of advice as if you were doing some elite xc racing exclusively on certain frames and had the body for it. Without looking/measuring I'd say my bars on a few xc oriented bikes are below seat level by an inch or so, others about level, maybe slightly above for more all mountain sort of riding but with gravity dropper posts to get seats even lower on demand.


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## and_woox (Mar 13, 2007)

I will start with saddle and handlebar at the same height and see what happens.
Thanks


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## Zipp0 (Aug 8, 2006)

If that's not a ban, what is?


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## coffeegeek2112 (Mar 2, 2007)

Talk about a thread hijack.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

*Maybe...*



coffeegeek2112 said:


> Talk about a thread hijack.


Amoxocillin is a good antibiotic for a nasty infection caused by too tall a saddle height.


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## coffeegeek2112 (Mar 2, 2007)

TNC said:


> Amoxocillin is a good antibiotic for a nasty infection caused by too tall a saddle height.


You're right. I didn't think about that.


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## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

coffeegeek2112 said:


> Talk about a thread hijack.


You mean Gravedigging?


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

I suffer from OTB syndrome, mostly in slow, tight, rocky areas. Also, where others ride down steep rocks and drops squarely on their seat, I tend to move behind my seat to prevent an OTB. Would I benefit from a higher or lower bar? My bar is comfortable at around 2" below seat level. And my seat is pretty high for pedaling efficiency.


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## pisiket (Sep 19, 2006)

tduro said:


> to prevent an OTB. Would I benefit from a higher or lower bar? My bar is comfortable at around 2" below seat level. And my seat is pretty high for pedaling efficiency.


Try the bar height level with your seat. That will give you the option of pedaling out of the saddle comfortably. A very efficient pedaling position indeed... 

For OTB, try a shorter stem. Do you have a 120 now? Go down to 100. You will feel a big difference.

I don't know how high your seat is, but leave some bend on the knees at every point in rotation. This will let you have power even at the dead spot.

Ali


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

pisket said:


> Try the bar height level with your seat. That will give you the option of pedaling out of the saddle comfortably. A very efficient pedaling position indeed...
> 
> For OTB, try a shorter stem. Do you have a 120 now? Go down to 100. You will feel a big difference.
> 
> ...


It came with a 100mm stem. I felt a little cramped in the cockpit, compared to my HT. The LBS is recommending I go with a longer stem, due to the position of my knee relative to the pedal spindle. But I don't think I want to move my CG forward at all. Is there a reason for the "knee over spindle" rule of thumb, or is that just an average of where most folks end up.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

tduro said:


> Is there a reason for the "knee over spindle" rule of thumb, or is that just an average of where most folks end up.


It is a pretty good starting point when looking for efficient pedaling and a balanced position on the bike.

OTB ... I find that getting my weight low over the bike is as important as moving back in the steep spots.


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## Bird (Mar 26, 2004)

tduro said:


> Is there a reason for the "knee over spindle" rule of thumb, or is that just an average of where most folks end up.


Yes...its a good starting point but also it can serve as a sizing guideline.
If your centered in the cockpit and can't achieve KOPS then your probably on a bike thats to big or small.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

tduro said:


> I suffer from OTB syndrome, mostly in slow, tight, rocky areas. Also, where others ride down steep rocks and drops squarely on their seat, I tend to move behind my seat to prevent an OTB. Would I benefit from a higher or lower bar? My bar is comfortable at around 2" below seat level. And my seat is pretty high for pedaling efficiency.


Higher, nothing wrong with getting back off your seat either
with your seat high and your bars low its no wonder your going otb. get a higher rise stem and/or riser bars or if you want to spend more money get a gravity dropper seat post


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

I have a similar question. But I'm 5'-7" with rather short arms. My 15.5" Stumjumper HT (1996) has about a 120mm stem?? What's 4-3/4"??? Dang English tape. It's mounted with a rise.

My bar is about 1" above my seat height with a flat bar.

But I'm just working on shifting my weight back a bit since I seem to have a tendency to endo more than I'd like. I'm sure the blown dampers on the front fork is contributing.

Would a riser bar help?

I'm getting a new fork shipped. So I'm thinking that the alternative is to not cut so much off and put some spacers to raise the bar that way.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

traffic002 said:


> I have a similar question. But I'm 5'-7" with rather short arms. My 15.5" Stumjumper HT (1996) has about a 120mm stem?? What's 4-3/4"??? Dang English tape. It's mounted with a rise.
> 
> My bar is about 1" above my seat height with a flat bar.
> 
> ...


shorter stem, riser bars, spacers, higher stem angle
they all have the same purpose, re direct your weight up and back. First make sure your seat is where it should be, then adjust the bars


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## tduro (Jan 2, 2007)

dan0 said:


> Higher, nothing wrong with getting back off your seat either
> with your seat high and your bars low its no wonder your going otb. get a higher rise stem and/or riser bars or if you want to spend more money get a gravity dropper seat post


That seems counter-intuitive. With the same saddle position, wouldn't a higher bar raise my CG, making OTB more likely?


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## Tilos (Mar 27, 2008)

*OTB..frame size*



tduro said:


> It came with a 100mm stem. I felt a little cramped in the cockpit, compared to my HT. The LBS is recommending I go with a longer stem, due to the position of my knee relative to the pedal spindle. But I don't think I want to move my CG forward at all. Is there a reason for the "knee over spindle" rule of thumb, or is that just an average of where most folks end up.


I was between frame sizes (S-M), went with the small...big mistake.
I tried every stem I could get my hands on from 60 to 150!!

With shorter stems, I'd move the seat back because of a that cramped cockpit feel and would experience back pain after an hour.
With longer stems, I'd have the seat correct fore and aft, feel good and go OTB often.
This was on a FS XC bike built to ride sitting 90% of the time.

I've come to believe if a FS XC frame doesn't feel good with a 100-110 stem it's not for you.
And remember with riser bars, you can make miner reach adjustments by rotating the bar in the stem.
Bar height ?...another thread.
Tilos


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## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

tduro said:


> Is there a reason for the "knee over spindle" rule of thumb, or is that just an average of where most folks end up.


It was used by FitKit (among others) back in the 80's and turned into gospel somehow. See the link below for more info, Keith Bontrager writes a fairly compelling argument for why KOPS is mostly malarkey.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/kops.html


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

tduro said:


> That seems counter-intuitive. With the same saddle position, wouldn't a higher bar raise my CG, making OTB more likely?


if youre bent over facing down youre weight is on your hands and arms which transfers to the front when you hit anything youre allready on your way 
if you have a more upright position your weight is off your arms. I would have told you to lower your seat also but you said you liked it where it was. a gravity dropper will solve your problems


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

Well, thanks to this thread, I took a good look into my stem. I have a 120mm stem. So I went to my LBS and talked with my man. He looked around and found a jSpecialized 100mm stem with a cammed spacer to give it even more rise. $30 and he slapped it on.

I joined a group ride this morning. 2hrs of technical single track. I stuck with the pack. No endos. In fact, the only endo was from a newer rider on an FS bike. 

Not a huge change. But just enough.

But one thing I noticed. The bike felt really good and stable. But I felt a bit cramped. Especially on the climbs. I know my seat is in the right place, but I guess with the bars pulled back and up, I need to get used to the smaller cockpit.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

traffic002 said:


> Well, thanks to this thread, I took a good look into my stem. I have a 120mm stem. So I went to my LBS and talked with my man. He looked around and found a jSpecialized 100mm stem with a cammed spacer to give it even more rise. $30 and he slapped it on.
> 
> I joined a group ride this morning. 2hrs of technical single track. I stuck with the pack. No endos. In fact, the only endo was from a newer rider on an FS bike.
> 
> ...


as long as the front wheel stayed on the ground you should be good, just need to get used to it


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

dan0 said:


> as long as the front wheel stayed on the ground you should be good, just need to get used to it


The front was a touch lighter. I had to focus on keeping the front down on steep climbs and I could feel my front push just a touch more in corners.

BTW, I ride a 15.5" HT. I'm 5'-7" with a shorter reach. But my bike came with a 120mm stem and it felt pretty good. Now with a 100mm stem and higher rise, I feel a bit cramped. Maybe I can get used to the new position and it's no problem.

But this leads to another question.

When looking at a new bike, especially FS (5-6" travel), should I be looking at a larger frame...maybe a Medium instead of a Small so that I can have the shorter stem that would be closer to where my fork alignment is rather than a Small which would have me using a longer stem again?

I ride a 52cm road bike if that helps.


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## dan0 (Oct 12, 2005)

traffic002 said:


> The front was a touch lighter. I had to focus on keeping the front down on steep climbs and I could feel my front push just a touch more in corners.
> 
> BTW, I ride a 15.5" HT. I'm 5'-7" with a shorter reach. But my bike came with a 120mm stem and it felt pretty good. Now with a 100mm stem and higher rise, I feel a bit cramped. Maybe I can get used to the new position and it's no problem.
> 
> ...


I have similar issues, (short legs and long torso) I've found that i prefer the large over the medium sizes, the medium is more flickable but the large is more comfortable on longer rides. 
I would recommend that you make sure with the seat adjusted for you that the seat clamp is centered on the seat rails, then if you need to adjust anything it will be the bars & stems, which have many more options. if your seat is all the way back or forward your weight wont be centered properly and you can also bend and break the rails easier. 
In summary, if a med frame results in the seat too far forward then go small and if the small results in seat too far back , go med.


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## traffic002 (Dec 16, 2008)

dan0 said:


> I would recommend that you make sure with the seat adjusted for you that the seat clamp is centered on the seat rails, then if you need to adjust anything it will be the bars & stems, which have many more options. if your seat is all the way back or forward your weight wont be centered properly and you can also bend and break the rails easier.
> In summary, if a med frame results in the seat too far forward then go small and if the small results in seat too far back , go med.


I have the seat set as far back as possible on the seat post. So I take it, the next size up would be more appropriate.

But good tip on where to start for sizing.

Yes, I do love the flickability of my tiny frame. It's almost like riding a BMX bike.


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## taletotell (Mar 3, 2009)

What about just raising my bars on my all-mountain rig? I raise and lower my seat depending on the situation so that is not a valid measure for me.


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## TrailNut (Apr 6, 2004)

*level with the saddle height is a good starting point*



Sideknob said:


> Depends on the type of riding you are doing - if you are primarily an all mountain rider your bars will be higher than your saddle, generally. It also depends on the dimensions of the rider too. A really short rider may find it hard to get the bars low enough.
> 
> For XC and trail riding, level with the saddle height is a good starting point, and you can fine tune from there.


I tried going to handlebar level with the saddle height for my hardtail (HT) with a fork with travel reduction lockout (Marz' Z1 130MM ETA), but after having to walk up very steep canyon at Wildcat/Tilden, I'm going back to "old school" 2" below the saddle.

I have a SC Bullit full suspension with RS Boxxer 170mm that an inch above saddle which is fine for all around XC, but I want my HT set up for climbs.


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