# Why aren't plastic wheels standard?



## HelmutHerr (Oct 5, 2012)

Obviously plastic bike wheels exist, but why aren't they everywhere?

Surely, in 2013, plastics technology has come far enough that we can don't have to muck around with spokes and delicate wheel building in order to get high-quality wheels.

What's the deal?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

The deal is that they are not superior technology. They are heavy, flexible and not terribly adaptable. The current spoke wheel is damn near perfection and far from being delicate.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

Because they remind us of KMart bikes.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

I saw some pics of a fully carbon fiber wheel the other day, too. Spokes are just really light compared to what you'd have to replace them with.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

In small BMX wheels the old tuffs where ok, but even they would warp, they where heavy and just not up to the standard of spoked wheels, and you cant adjust plastic, once it starts to warp its all over.
And i wouldnt want to be huckin 6 foot drops on plastic wheels.
Your right technology has come a long way, but still not far enough for plastic wheels.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

HelmutHerr said:


> Obviously plastic bike wheels exist, but why aren't they everywhere?
> 
> Surely, in 2013, plastics technology has come far enough that we can don't have to muck around with spokes and delicate wheel building in order to get high-quality wheels.
> 
> What's the deal?


Because tensioned wire spoke wheels have the best strength to weight ratio of almost any structure, and they are easy to fix if there are issues.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

BITD, I saw a reinforced nylon rim on a spoked wheel - supposedly to combine the best of toughness with the proven tensioned-spoke design. It was still heavy and flexy compared to extruded aluminum.
Sorry, you're stuck with carbon fiber until polymer technology catches up.

-F


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## HelmutHerr (Oct 5, 2012)

Bah. No plastic wheels and no flying cars.

Technology fails me again.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

HelmutHerr said:


> Bah. No plastic wheels and no flying cars.
> 
> Technology fails me again.


The tensioned wire wheel was first used for aircraft


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

HelmutHerr said:


> Obviously plastic bike wheels exist, but why aren't they everywhere?
> 
> Surely, in 2013, plastics technology has come far enough that we can don't have to muck around with spokes and delicate wheel building in order to get high-quality wheels.
> 
> What's the deal?


They are heavy, expensive and flexy, even the full carbon fiber ones. Someday, we'll have materials and tech that beat stainless steel for spokes, but that day is not today. Some wheels have carbon fiber spokes, but they are kinda brittle. They're fine (but crazy expensive), but they don't put up with abuse very well, and they're crazy expensive (and catastrophic) if/when they fail.

I gotta say, tho... I love my Light Bicycle Carbon AM 29er rims. Lighter and stiffer than alu rims.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

HelmutHerr said:


> Bah. No plastic wheels and no flying cars.
> 
> Technology fails me again.


We won't have flying cars until people learn to give up the steering wheel, and go with self-driving cars. A lot of people are poor drivers in two dimensions, can you imagine how bad things are going to be in three dimensions?

Something like 30,000 people die on the highways each year due to car accidents. When a survey asked if they would let the car's computer drive for them in exchange for eliminating traffic fatalities, something like 80% said they would not.

I'll bet self-driving cars will be commonplace in 20 years, tho. Imagine being able to drop your kid off in a car and it takes him to school. Imagine going to a bar and getting wasted off your ass and having the car drive you home.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

shiggy said:


> The tensioned wire wheel was first used for aircraft


Sort of. The original patent application was in 1802, so I would imagine the prototypes were for other devices than aircraft.

" The spoked wheel remained pretty much the same until 1802, when G.F. Bauer registered a patent for the first wire tension spoke. This wire spoke consisted of a length of wire threaded through the rim of the wheel and secured at both ends to the hub. Over the next few years, this wire spoke evolved into the round tension spoke we see on bicycles today. "


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

rideit said:


> Sort of. The original patent application was in 1802, so I would imagine the prototypes were for other devices than aircraft.
> 
> " The spoked wheel remained pretty much the same until 1802, when G.F. Bauer registered a patent for the first wire tension spoke. This wire spoke consisted of a length of wire threaded through the rim of the wheel and secured at both ends to the hub. Over the next few years, this wire spoke evolved into the round tension spoke we see on bicycles today. "


Aircraft, not airplanes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_wheels

Invented in 1808 as "the lightest possible wheel for aerial navigation cars"

First patented in 1826.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Same difference in this context.
Bauer beat him by 6 years.


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## Kronk (Jan 4, 2004)

Remember the ACS Z-wheels for BMX? Nylon AND spokes!


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## jlmuncie (Sep 10, 2010)

pimpbot said:


> I'll bet self-driving cars will be commonplace in 20 years, tho. Imagine being able to drop your kid off in a car and it takes him to school. Imagine going to a bar and getting wasted off your ass and having the car drive you home.


I don't know about that. Self-driving cars would most certainly obey speed limits and other traffic laws and lots of people wouldn't like that.


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## BacDoc (May 31, 2011)

pimpbot said:


> We won't have flying cars until people learn to give up the steering wheel, and go with self-driving cars. A lot of people are poor drivers in two dimensions, can you imagine how bad things are going to be in three dimensions?
> 
> I'll bet self-driving cars will be commonplace in 20 years, tho. Imagine being able to drop your kid off in a car and it takes him to school. Imagine going to a bar and getting wasted off your ass and having the car drive you home.


Yes!

The voice coming out of the car speakers "Take a sip of that beer, hold on and watch this!"


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## tim_from_PA (Dec 17, 2012)

There is no proof that self driving cars will not cause fatal accidents. A computer glitch could mean any number of people could get injured/killed for no reason. I have more trust in myself for driving than in a computer set up by someone else.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

tim_from_PA said:


> There is no proof that self driving cars will not cause fatal accidents. A computer glitch could mean any number of people could get injured/killed for no reason. I have more trust in myself for driving than in a computer set up by someone else.


Yeah, pretty much everything gets hacked these days. How 'bout a 500-car pileup, all at top speed? It's like "I Robot" with self-driving cars.



Kronk said:


> Remember the ACS Z-wheels for BMX? Nylon AND spokes!


THAT's what those things were called! :idea:
(see my post #7 above)



pimpbot said:


> ...Imagine going to a bar and getting wasted off your ass and having the car drive you home.


Yeah, but people still get DUI's in a horse and buggy - even when the driver is nothing more than cargo. The horse will do fine, but the "driver" (more like sleeper) is still at fault. Will the same logic apply?

-F


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## Joe_Re (Jan 10, 2011)

An extreme example of course but,

A self driving car is carrying occupants who have vast wealth on their persons, are diplomats or other high value targets etc. Bad people know that if they brake in front of this car and box in the sides, it will stop, and that's all it will do. It won't throw itself in reverse and try to flee. Manual override?

Pot holes and raised structures in construction zones. Could these same sensors detect tire/suspension ruining irregularities as well? I bent a wheel and ruined a tire from a pot hole that was in a large puddle during a rain storm.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

tim_from_PA said:


> There is no proof that self driving cars will not cause fatal accidents. A computer glitch could mean any number of people could get injured/killed for no reason. I have more trust in myself for driving than in a computer set up by someone else.


same can be said for auto pilot in planes but how often do you hear about them failing and crashing?


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## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

Technically, isn't carbon considered plastic?


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Audi is already developing a car that drives itself, in bumper-to-bumper traffic. This is also a double-edge sword....as I can easily see more drivers "secretly" texting and using the cellphone. 

Plastic wheels have a long way, before making it on high-end bikes. For now - spoked wheel is far superior.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Fleas said:


> Yeah, but people still get DUI's in a horse and buggy - even when the driver is nothing more than cargo. The horse will do fine, but the "driver" (more like sleeper) is still at fault. Will the same logic apply?
> 
> -F


Absolutely, operators need to be sober in the event of a malfunction, whether it's the horse getting spooked, your auto pilot deciding upside down is fashionable or your self drive car deciding it's time for a cruise to Namibia...


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Zachariah said:


> Audi is already developing a car that drives itself, in bumper-to-bumper traffic. This is also a double-edge sword....as I can easily see more drivers "secretly" texting and using the cellphone.
> 
> Plastic wheels have a long way, before making it on high-end bikes. For now - spoked wheel is far superior.


Stanford University had an Audi TT lapping Thunderhill on its own a year ago:

Stanford University develop robotic Audi TTS and test it at Sacramento's Thunderhill Raceway | Mail Online

I sure would not have wanted to be the passenger in this thing first time out........


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## LWright (Jan 29, 2006)

pimpbot said:


> I'll bet self-driving cars will be commonplace in 20 years, tho. Imagine being able to drop your kid off in a car and it takes him to school. Imagine going to a bar and getting wasted off your ass and having the car drive you home.


Kinda like a TAXI or a BUS.


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## jimwg (Aug 7, 2010)

I'm more anxious for a practical "no flats" tire insert technology, than plastic wheels OR self-driving cars.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

^that has been invented, its called tubeless.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

b-kul said:


> same can be said for auto pilot in planes but how often do you hear about them failing and crashing?


Can't even come close to comparing the 2. As an A&P and an automotive tech, the amount of maintenance that goes into aircraft is a lot different than cars.
Can you imagine the out cry if every 50 hours $1000 maintenance was required, moving up to basically stripping the car down inspecting everything at lets say 1000 hours and if you didn't, you'd be violating federal law and your car could be impounded.

It's not about trusting the computers, it's about trusting owners to maintain the vehicle.


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## jimwg (Aug 7, 2010)

Sorry, tubeless just doesn't do it for me. It's more expensive than a tube and dries out after awhile. Not looking to rewind the "tubeless or not" argument, but I'm talking about a foam or expanding foam technology that has probably already been invented but just not yet widely accepted.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

You mean bib mousse?


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

jimwg said:


> Sorry, tubeless just doesn't do it for me. It's more expensive than a tube and dries out after awhile. Not looking to rewind the "tubeless or not" argument, but I'm talking about a foam or expanding foam technology that has probably already been invented but just not yet widely accepted.


Here you go - a 2 year+ supply of sealant for $28. With removable valve cores and a $1 syringe, adding sealant is no big deal.

Amazon.com: Environmental Technology 32-Ounce Casting' Craft Mold Builder, Natural Latex Rubber: Arts, Crafts & Sewing

1 part liquid latex to 3 parts water.

You're welcome.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

jimwg said:


> Sorry, tubeless just doesn't do it for me. It's more expensive than a tube and dries out after awhile. Not looking to rewind the "tubeless or not" argument, but I'm talking about a foam or expanding foam technology that has probably already been invented but just not yet widely accepted.


ust then. more expensive upfront but no mess, no fuss, no flats.


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

b-kul said:


> ust then. more expensive upfront but no mess, no fuss, no flats.


Without sealant, UST is almost as flat prone as a tire/tube setup, at least with regards to punctures from thorns/debris. Less prone to pinch flat or cut a sidewall, I suppose.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

true, you have to compromise somewhere though.


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## clrtherp (Jun 30, 2015)

Kronk said:


> Remember the ACS Z-wheels for BMX? Nylon AND spokes!


I totally remember them!
I had a pair and they worked good. Rumor had it that you could put them in the freezer when they warped and they would straighten. I can't believe the technology isn't there for mountain bikes.


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

Plastic Wheels - Composite Wheels - Skyway Machine, Inc.

Back in the 80's , you were the cool kid on the block if you had a set of these

ACS Z wheels were another cool thing back then. Spoked wheel with a plastic rim.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

I was in the cycle trade back in the day when BMX bikes appeared on the shop floors here in New Zealand. One model came out with yellow plastic rims using normal steel spokes and hubs. Not being a rider of this type of bike I passed on them. But I used to think that they helped softening the landings when jumping off objects. I re-call that the rim brakes didn't work to well.

Eric


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Can you imagine the out cry if every 50 hours $1000 maintenance was required


I'm an Audi tech, and $1000 in maintenance every 50 hours is about accurate :lol:


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