# Honey I Shrunk the Tripple XM-L



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Instead of design something new, I shrunk my tripple XML housing to accomodate a Ledil LXM RS, optic U2 bin XM-L and a Lflex..
I boiled it for 31 days and manged to get it small enough for a helmet light 
A few pics
Main Body








Front Bezel








Comparison with the tripple
















77grams excluding a remote switch








Ledil LXM RS optic








Rear end, Lumberg M8 and M6 gland for remote switch









Happy New Year...:thumbsup:


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I knew you were up to something as you were a little too quiet. Lovely job Jay, looks fantastic. Off to the ano tank now I guess for a splash of colour. The things you can do with a rotary table and a mill:thumbsup:

I am impressed you are  getting anything done with the new edition. Must have excellent time management

I got 3 lflex board the other day to play with so looks like we are all thinking along similar lines .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers Brad,
I wish i had the energy tonight to put it through the ano tank.. Broken sleep from the little man keeping us awake at night is zapping me!
When i do have any spare time i cant be bothered to do anything, as im knackered...I've had to mill another tripple housing, so while i had the rotary table set up i milled the tripple and this mini version..


Can't make my mind up what color i ahould ano this light, my helmet is blue so maybe it should be blue..

Still need to knock up a mount and remote switch, they will both be out of delrin...


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## walangkatapat (Jun 2, 2009)

Nice machine work!


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

Nice work! Perfectly matching in appearance, going to be interesting to hear how you like its output paired with the tripple.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Will 2 18650 in parrallel be able to provide enough current to the lflex, to run a single xm-l @3amps?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> Will 2 18650 in parrallel be able to provide enough current to the lflex, to run a single xm-l @3amps?


Yes, they should have no problem. How long is your power cable? Small gauge cable at 3A can cause a fair bit of voltage drop. Beautiful light BTW.


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Aww, GD's made another cute li'l baby


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## spartacus001 (Aug 2, 2011)

I love that Industrial look. 
Those cable connecters look great too. 
Good job.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> Yes, they should have no problem. How long is your power cable? Small gauge cable at 3A can cause a fair bit of voltage drop. Beautiful light BTW.


I checked the tech docs for the lumberg m8 connectors I use, but there's no mention of the guage wire used...just rated at 4 amps..ill have a stab at 22/24 gauge wire.

How long would you say is a good length to run the cable at?
I planned to put the battery pack in the top of my camel back.

Thanks..:thumbsup:

I'll hopefully get it Anodised this weekend, for some reason my m5 taps say bottom on the little boxes, but there all taper!
So had to order another set so i can tap the hole properly for the mount..


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> I checked the tech docs for the lumberg m8 connectors I use, but there's no mention of the guage wire used...just rated at 4 amps..ill have a stab at 22/24 gauge wire.
> 
> How long would you say is a good length to run the cable at?
> I planned to put the battery pack in the top of my camel back.
> ...


With such a tiny light, why don't you mount the batteries on the back of your helmet. You can keep the cable runs short this way. I found that it's well balanced so the weight's not a big issue.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> Will 2 18650 in parrallel be able to provide enough current to the lflex, to run a single xm-l @3amps?


as long as you use decent Japanese cells (Panasonic, Sanyo etc), it should be fine. Avoid cheap Chinese *fire cells though, they can't provide the current.

I agree with Ofroad'bent - attach the battery to the back of your helmet. It'll weigh ~150g after waterproofing, which should balance out the light+mount at the front. I put mine on the webbing at the back, although I'd love to make some kind of battery quick release as I'm always swapping between my commuter light and my mtb light, both of which have the battery on the back. I've ridden with a helmet light for 10+ years and not having the battery in the camelbak is priceless, well worth the slight extra weight up top.

oh, beautiful looking light too


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Voltage drop calculator here.

OEM Power Supplies - Voltage Drop Calculator

I set my helmet cable length based on my battery being in my jersey pocket. It ends up being around 3.5 feet.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

OfRoad & Matt do you have any pics of your helmet light setups?
I thought of putting the batteries on the rear...i might make a minimal housing for two 18650's out of some delrin, hopefully it wont weigh to much but will be water tight..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> Voltage drop calculator here.
> 
> OEM Power Supplies - Voltage Drop Calculator
> 
> I set my helmet cable length based on my battery being in my jersey pocket. It ends up being around 3.5 feet.


Great calculator.

The biggest issue with the M8 connectors is that most of the only have a conductor size of 0.25mm² (24awg) so the max current capacity is only 3-4 amps so voltage drop is going to be around the 0.2-0.3volts if the cable is around 3 feet. Mount the battery on the helmet and drop is only getting 0.03v drop.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Great calculator.
> 
> The biggest issue with the M8 connectors is that most of the only have a conductor size of 0.25mm² (24awg) so the max current capacity is only 3-4 amps so voltage drop is going to be around the 0.2-0.3volts if the cable is around 3 feet. Mount the battery on the helmet and drop is only getting 0.3v drop.


Correct me if im wrong but 0.2-0.3volts doesnt sound like anything to worry about?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> OfRoad & Matt do you have any pics of your helmet light setups?
> I thought of putting the batteries on the rear...i might make a minimal housing for two 18650's out of some delrin, hopefully it wont weigh to much but will be water tight..


Hi Jay. I use the industrial 3M dual lock to mount my lights and batteries. This way if I hit a big branch the light and battery will get ripped off and not my head. The velcro is plastic, not fabric so it takes a lot of force to break it free.

In the picture below you can just see a 14,8v pack on the back of the helmet. It was held on with a cable tie through the heatshrink but now I use the dual lock. Weight wise I cannot tell is is there but since you are going to use only 2 cells if will not even be noticeable.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Correct me if im wrong but 0.2-0.3volts doesnt sound like anything to worry about?


I don't see a real problem but with the lflex since you are driving 1 led to 1 cell, adding your voltage drop the lflex might only be getting 3.9v. At 3A current the xml draws 3.5 volts so it will not stay in regulation when the li-ion cell gets down to it's nominal voltage of 3.7 volts (lflex getting 3.3v) ........it think

But put the pack on your helmet and voltage drop is only 0.03v so no problem at all (note typing error in post above from retarded typing angers)


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> Correct me if im wrong but 0.2-0.3volts doesnt sound like anything to worry about?


It's not the end of the world for sure, but it is .75W of energy lost to the light. That is ~4% of your 2P battery's capacity.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Dont forget in the grand scheme of things that the Lflex is a linear driver and as such is burning off excess volts as heat anyways and most efficient when close to the leds voltage


Nice mini me light there Jay


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> OfRoad & Matt do you have any pics of your helmet light setups?
> I thought of putting the batteries on the rear...i might make a minimal housing for two 18650's out of some delrin, hopefully it wont weigh to much but will be water tight..


Here's my set-up. The batteries are wrapped in shrink-wrap, the ends sealed with plasti-dip, so they're 100% waterproof. I bonded some velcro to the battery packs, and they are secured to the helmet with a stretchy velcro strap that came with a Planet Bike flasher.

The light mount is secured with 3M Dual-lock to the helmet, and also with a loop of Velcro One-wrap around it.










I leave this on the helmet all the time this season, and use my spare helmet for the rare daytime ride.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I'll take a pic of both my commuter set up and my mtb set up tomorrow before my night ride, although it looks a lot like brad's, with the battery vertically mounted on the back vents. A 2 cell I barely notice and the 3 cell is liveable (and easily worth not having the hassle of being tied to my camelbak).


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Scar has a nice simple set-up:









My green helmet is fairly rounded, so the battery didn't sit well vertically.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Very nice looking light!

Yep, mounting the battery on the back of thel helmet is the way to go!

I can't believe it has been over 4 years now, but I would never go back. Actually, I think I was the very first one to do it. At the time, everyone was trying to out build each other with monster lights and I went the exact opposite direction, small and lightweight.

Here is the link to the original thread - https://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/~1000-lumens-helmet-mounted-354430.html Funny, not too many of the current regulars around back then, noticed msxtr was around back then :thumbsup:

Industrial Strength Velcro is all I use










You should have no problems running a 2P battery configuration. I have been running a 2S2P configuration for my 4x XM-L bar light (2S2P) for quite a while now and have not seen any problems

Thanks Ofroad'bent, just saw your post as I was previewing mine 

****


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I have a ton of these velcro cable ties at home, they should be strong enough at holding everything on the helmet..









Cheers for the pics of your setups, helps me to see where your placing everything


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> I have a ton of these velcro cable ties at home, they should be strong enough at holding everything on the helmet..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's basically what I'm using around the base of my light mount. The Dual Lock goes under the mount and on the helmet, then this stuff goes over the mount and around the helmet for extra security.

Here's a pic of the other side if it helps.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I was tempted to try one of this 1S 3.7v lipo's but think they may be a bit on the long side at 128mm.
But could be an easy battery to waterproof..plus there only $9
HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 1S 20C Lipoly (Single Cell)
Spec.
Minimum Capacity: 5000mAh
Configuration: 1S / 3.7v / 1Cell
Constant Discharge: 20C
Cell Weight: 114g
Cell Size: 128 x 42 x 10mm


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> I was tempted to try one of this 1S 3.7v lipo's but think they may be a bit on the long side at 128mm.
> But could be an easy battery to waterproof..plus there only $9
> HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy 5000mAh 1S 20C Lipoly (Single Cell)
> Spec.
> ...


Personally I'd want to see that in some kind of hard case to protect it from getting bent or punctured. Lipo packs get especially dangerous when damaged and the last thing you want within inches of your head is an angry Lipo pack! 

How about either of these?

HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : ZIPPY Flightmax 6200mah 1S 30C Hardcase Car Lipoly

HobbyKing R/C Hobby Store : Turnigy nano-tech 5000mah 1S2P 50~100C Hardcase Lipo Pack


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

kwarwick said:


> Personally I'd want to see that in some kind of hard case to protect it from getting bent or punctured. Lipo packs get especially dangerous when damaged and the last thing you want within inches of your head is an angry Lipo pack!
> 
> How about either of these?
> 
> ...


+1 for what kwarwick said. A punctured lipo on the back of the helmet would not be the best, although I imagine it could be quite spectacular if a fireball ensued. I am sure it would go viral on youtube if you were lucky enough to record it.

I used the zippy lipo batteries a lot and found them to be very good.

This poor bugger was charging lipo's on his car and think something went wrong, can't put my finger on it though. Perhaps that is why I charge my lipo's outside The guy in the background looks like he is warming his hands by a campfire. Can you imagine the phone conversation to his wife when he asks for her to come ad pick him up.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Added a splash of color ...
Looks pretty close to my blue hope pro 2 hubs


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

And I thought the Easy2DIY was a pretty sharp looking light. This one is awesome!


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

Ofroad'bent said:


> And I thought the Easy2DIY was a pretty sharp looking light. This one is awesome!


Agreed! :thumbsup:

You may have quite a few folks wanting one to go with the excellent Tripple's you've built for us. I know I'm tempted -- eagerly awaiting beamshots.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Ofroad'bent said:


> And I thought the Easy2DIY was a pretty sharp looking light. This one is awesome!


Thanks :thumbsup:
Must admit when i dipped it in the dye the first few dips, my heart sank as it looked like the dye wasn't taking...then the magic happened with every dunk after and I called the Mrs in to look at the color..even she was impressed.



ecthelion said:


> Agreed! :thumbsup:
> 
> You may have quite a few folks wanting one to go with the excellent Tripple's you've built for us. I know I'm tempted -- eagerly awaiting beamshots.


Hi Kipp, thanks:thumbsup:
I'll try to get some beam shots up over the weekend, all its done lately is pee down with rain here.
I'll combine the shots with the tripple at level 3 and 5, with this light set to the full 3 amps..
That way we should see if it serves its purpose as a helmet light..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

looks fantastic Jay. I know that feeling of "crap the dye isn't taking". It's bizarre how just another 30 seconds in the dye makes all the difference and the colour suddenly starts to develop.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

That looks great!


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

> You may have quite a few folks wanting one to go with the excellent Tripple's you've built for us. I know I'm tempted -- eagerly awaiting beamshots.


This.

I wish to know how you can find the time to keep producing these lovely lights Goldigger with your new arrival. You either have a very understanding partner or you can operate on 2hrs sleep a night!!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ruscle said:


> This.
> 
> I wish to know how you can find the time to keep producing these lovely lights Goldigger with your new arrival. You either have a very understanding partner or you can operate on 2hrs sleep a night!!


Hi Russell,
I've had this and another tripple on the go over the last two and a half weeks, I've just squeezed time in where i can..I've still got to get the tripple anodised and wired up for next Tuesday.
And yes I'm knackered with all the broken sleep..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Ah yes, the joys of broken sleep. Just wait till he sleeps through the night for the first time. You'll still wake every couple of hours to check on him.

At least it explains why you're posting replies in the middle of the night.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

wow, that's pretty and I love blue!

A bit late to the party, but here are my helmet light set ups:

mtb









commuter


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Wow GD, that's a beautiful little light. Love the colour, too. Very impressed :thumbsup:


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I decided to wire it up tonight, still need to make a mount and modify one of my remote switches so it can be attached to the helmet.

As usual the holder on the optic needs a tweek, i drilled two holes in the holder to allow the wires in and then into the little cavity over the solder tabs.

















Dam those lflex's are a bugger to solder as there so small!

Turned it on and thought that the blue anodising was reflecting into the beam, as there was a strange beam pattern only on high.
So i removed the front bezel, still the same!
Then i thought the blue wire must have been touching the optic as the beam looked blue, but still only on high.
So i carefully popped the optic out of its holder...and this is what i found..









Had to take it all apart and stick another led in..now the beam looks fine..beam shots hopefully tomorrow night.
Temporary battery pack..hopefully that should provide enough juice to the lflex for the beamshots?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow Jay she certainly blew out. I though at first you had de-domed it until I read the thread. Any idea's what went wrong?

Your light certainly looks sweet though. The blue has come out perfectly


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Probably a dumb question, but...

What voltage are you running this thing at? I can't tell if those batteries are all in parallel or not.

The l-flex is optimised for 3.5v or so. I know more shouldn't hurt it, but it needs to burn off all the excess as heat. Could that have cooked something if you're running too high a voltage?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Battery pack is 1S4P 3.7v 
I'm just charging the cells individually at the moment so i'll see what the true capacity is of each cell.
But i'm using this config as yeti and matt have said that these cells struggle to deliver over 1.7amps..

I just think it may have been an iffy led.. other than that i have no clue why it happened.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

First trustfire just finished charging at 1amp..capacity 1511mah
Now its on a 1amp discharge, it went from 4.2v - 3.82 in about 5 seconds.. doesn't look very promising to me.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

Beautiful light. Red did not entice me to anodize, but this blue....

Sorry about the XM-L & Trustfire. Sux lux. 

BrianMc


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks Brian..

I charged one of the trustfires up, with my turnigy accucell charger, followed by a discharge and charge.
These are trhe figures:
1 amp charge 4.20v capacity 1511
1 amp discharge 3.00v capacity 1568
1 amp charge 4.20v capacity 1440

edit: second cell just finished a 120min charge 4.20v capacity 1490

Looks pretty crap to me..not sure if i did it correct.
Finsihed the switch, can tie it to my helmet with a velcro cable tie









Beamshots..

Tripple XML at 3amps (cute SS optic)








Tripple XML at 3amps (cute SS optic) plus Honey i shrunk the tripple XML.
I noticed that the shadows are gone in front of me..








Same again but looking slightly right








Same again looking slightly left








And on its own with out the monster tripple XML









Here's a Gif to show the difference between the Tripple XML on it's own then with this light..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Great little switch Jay and the helmet light definitely compliments the triple xml.



> Beautiful light. Red did not entice me to anodize, but this blue..


Brian you either like red or you don't. On a fully black bike it looks fantastic but the problem is with having yellow, orange, violet, blue and green ano dye's what colour to do next


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

interesting idea about the optic holder, must have made things a lot quicker. Odd that the LED blew up, fingers crossed it was just a flaw with the LED.

Bummer about the batteries, that was worse than I expected (although going from 4.2 to 3.8V very quickly is normal, as is going from 3V to ~3.5V on a charge)  The unprotected ones seem better as I've had ~8 of each Trustfire and Uniquefire 2500 come through my hands and they've all come to ~2250mAh, with little variation. I guess the lower capacity is where you pay for the PCB at more or less the same price. They'd still make decent spare buck batteries or for torches/ headlamps if you can stick to 1/2C per cell discharge. I'd offer to buy a couple off you, but there's probably not much point with Royal Mail prices..


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

brad72;8888901 On a fully black bike it looks fantastic but the problem is with having yellow said:


> tie-die rainbow?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> interesting idea about the optic holder, must have made things a lot quicker. Odd that the LED blew up, fingers crossed it was just a flaw with the LED.
> 
> Bummer about the batteries, that was worse than I expected (although going from 4.2 to 3.8V very quickly is normal, as is going from 3V to ~3.5V on a charge)  The unprotected ones seem better as I've had ~8 of each Trustfire and Uniquefire 2500 come through my hands and they've all come to ~2250mAh, with little variation. I guess the lower capacity is where you pay for the PCB at more or less the same price. They'd still make decent spare buck batteries or for torches/ headlamps if you can stick to 1/2C per cell discharge. I'd offer to buy a couple off you, but there's probably not much point with Royal Mail prices..


I charged 4 up yesterday and they all got around 1450, i did wonder if it was just there age.

They are so cheap it's probably cheaper to order some new ones from DX.

I'll just have to get some decent cells, maybe the panasonics or sanyo's..


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## ecthelion (May 6, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Same again looking slightly left
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like it has a nice beam on it's own, and is a noticable difference vs. just the Tripple XML. I was afraid that the Tripple would just overwhelm it. Nice job, truly professional execution.

In particular, I like the "slightly left" ability that the helmet gives you -- my neighborhood trails are FLAT so the builders resorted to twisty singletrack as a way to increase the challenge


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## ballsofcottonwool (Jun 4, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> So i carefully popped the optic out of its holder...and this is what i found..


I did something similar on one of my XMLs, I'd got tiny blob of solder or dirt on the dome and when I powered it up with 3A, the intensity of the light was so great the dirt started smoking and burnt through the silicone of the dome!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

*Ecthelion*, all the trails that I ride are tight twisty single track and the combination of helmet and bar lights is perfect. Having just 1 light would be a great disadvantage as when going around a tight corner you turn you head to see the exit (helmet light) but you can still see the corner through your peripheral vision (bar light)

I also though the helmet lights would be washed out but once out on the trail it is amazing just how much extra light is adds


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> I charged 4 up yesterday and they all got around 1450, i did wonder if it was just there age.
> 
> They are so cheap it's probably cheaper to order some new ones from DX.
> 
> I'll just have to get some decent cells, maybe the panasonics or sanyo's..


ah well, part discharge them and stick 'em in the fridge for a rainy day project.

I've had great success with the 2 different capacity Panasonics I've used, so those get my vote (and that of most of the torch world it seems), but anything quality should do.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Looking on the net these senysbors batteries seem to rate really highly and come out better than panasonics and are cheaper. link to UK ebay sales below:

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

Also am I correct in thinking to make a 7.4v 5600Mah battery pack from these you would connect them in parallel pairs and connect the pairs in series then out to the source?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

looking at the discharge curve I think the yezl would be better for our applications, it certainly has the flatter discharge curve, until the end that is.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay

The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ruscle said:


> Looking on the net these senysbors batteries seem to rate really highly and come out better than panasonics and are cheaper. link to UK ebay sales below:
> 
> eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
> 
> Also am I correct in thinking to make a 7.4v 5600Mah battery pack from these you would connect them in parallel pairs and connect the pairs in series then out to the source?


I looked at the senybor's but read this Senybor 18650 Battery test ..

Im dubious of that uk seller, i just get the impression its another person who resells chinese stuff..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

This has to be the best deal I've seen.. 
2 x 4000mah 18650's for £1 (£3.79 deliveredm from HK)
2PCS UltraFire 18650 3.7V 4000mAh Rechargeable Battery Li-ion Lithium Batteries | eBay


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Seems to be a minefield out their when it comes to batteries, was alarmed to read through this about batteries and he unwrapped several to show they were re-used laptop cells!! The ultrafires and trustfires don't seem to be rated at all. Looking at the data Emu may be correct in the thinking that the Yezl 2400Mah would be best suited or even the Torchy 2600/2400Mah batteries.

Torchy the Battery Boy: 18650 Batteries / Chargers


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

> I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay
> 
> The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected


This may help you with making your battery pack brad as shows the wiring for balancing so they charge evenly, all you would need to do is purchase a balancing connector:

R/C Calculations

Batteries look very expensive! Best recommended batteries seem to be AW and cheapest is:

Batteries - All - BATTERIES & CHARGERS

What voltage and Mah pack would you need for your shrunk tripple Goldigger?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

brad72 said:


> I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay
> 
> The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected


why not get 2x Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-Ion battery | eBay and save yourself a few bucks?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

the feeling I get about 18650s is that, for unprotected cells at least, if you want good bang for your buck go with pretty much any mid-rated Samsung, Sanyo, Panasonic, 2400-2600mAh. They're all pretty close to their rated capacities and should be able to provide 1/2C or more with ease. If you want the highest capacity, get the Panasonic 2900 or 3100mAh and pony up the cash. Trying to hit the middle road and save money over the high end Panasonics is a waste of time. I have 2400mAh Panasonic cells in all my packs and I really don't care about the lesser run time compared to the 3100 cells as they packs last as long as I need them to.

As for protected cells, that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish. If I wanted single cells capable of high drain I'd only buy ones recommended by several people off CPF and BLF that have been tested. Thankfully, for our needs we can cheap out and skip the protection or get a separate PCB.


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

brad72 said:


> I am looking at these cells 2x BLAZAR PROTECTED Panasonic NCR 18650 A 3100mAh Lithium Li-ion battery | eBay
> 
> The only problem is how to charge them if I make them into 1s2p pack as both cells are protected


You don't need balance taps if making a 1S2P battery pack as each cell will get exactly what it needs when charging at 3.7V.

You don't need to worry about the protection circuits either. I have 2S1P and 4S1P battery packs all with the original protection circuits in each cell and they don't cause any problems when charging at 7.4V and 14.8V respectively.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ruscle said:


> This may help you with making your battery pack brad as shows the wiring for balancing so they charge evenly, all you would need to do is purchase a balancing connector:
> 
> R/C Calculations
> 
> ...


3.7v ..the Mah is up to the user but the higher the better. Bear in mind that on high its being driven at 3 amps.. I would aim for 5200mah.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

OverTheHill said:


> You don't need balance taps if making a 1S2P battery pack as each cell will get exactly what it needs when charging at 3.7V.
> 
> You don't need to worry about the protection circuits either. I have 2S1P and 4S1P battery packs all with the original protection circuits in each cell and they don't cause any problems when charging at 7.4V and 14.8V respectively.


Jay sorry to hijack the thread.

I also wanted to avoid the balance plugs and just charge off the battery wire but shouldn't I charge at 4.2 volts or is the extra voltage just wasted as heat because the lfex is a linear driver and the XML only need about 3.2v @3A?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

No problem Brad, it helps me to..

OverTheHill, if you charge the 1S2P pack how does the charger know that the two cells have reached there full capacity?


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

brad72:

I specified 3.7V because that is what I would select on my charger (I have a Turnigy Accucell-6) to charge a 1S2P pack. The charger will take the pack up to 4.2V though for a full charge.

Goldigger:

Assuming you have a reasonable charger it should be able to sense when both cells are fully charged. You can think of a 1S2P pack as just a bigger bucket i.e 2 x 2500mAh will give 5000mAh rather than two smaller separate buckets of 2500mAh.

Charging packs of parallel cells is much simpler than packs of serial cells which give higher voltages.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

OverTheHill said:


> brad72:
> 
> I specified 3.7V because that is what I would select on my charger (I have a Turnigy Accucell-6) to charge a 1S2P pack. The charger will take the pack up to 4.2V though for a full charge.
> 
> ...


I have the same charger as you..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I took the plunge and got some of the panasonic NCR18650's 3100mah from the mentioned ebay seller..
I didnt realise that the seller was torchyboy..
2x Panasonic 3100mAh NCR 18650A 3.7v batteries + case | eBay

Bit expensive but if they live up to there claims they should work well with this helmet light..


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## OverTheHill (Dec 3, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> I took the plunge and got some of the panasonic NCR18650's 3100mah from the mentioned ebay seller..
> I didnt realise that the seller was torchyboy..
> 2x Panasonic 3100mAh NCR 18650A 3.7v batteries + case | eBay
> 
> Bit expensive but if they live up to there claims they should work well with this helmet light..


Just one word of warning Goldigger, I don't think those Panasonic cells have protection circuits on them. No problem when using Flex drivers but something to bear in mind if you ever want to use them on a light which doesn't have a driver with low voltage protection.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Goldigger please let us know how you get on with these batteries.

I almost pressed the pay now button. But I'll hang on 'till I read your view on them.

One thing for sure though is the fact that the DX ***Fires are not as good as the were a few years back. My last batch of the things about 6 months ago are pointless. They don't even have the normally expected Li-ion voltage curve, they just drop from 4.2 V to 3 V without the usual hanging around at 3.7 V. and thats driving lights at only 1 A


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Will do yeti..
What's the advice on charging them? I've read something about charging them and discharging them for a few cycles to get the full capacity...should I do this?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

No, that's the old days of Ni- Cd and Ni-M. Just charge them and use them, Try not to let any cell go bellow 3 V to prolong their life and try to charge at 1 - 1.5 A unless you're in a rush.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

yeti, different seller I know, but my friend has been very happy with his new 2P NCR18650A powered pack. He runs it on med most of the time with occasional spells on high and I don't think he's yet tripped the Vmed warning, even on a 3h night ride earlier this week.

If I were building a new helmet light for myself, 2 of these would be what I'd get. For bigger packs I'd probably get something cheaper as capacity and power draw would be less of an issue, but I don't think you can do better than these.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

The Panasonic cells arrived this morning, I've got one on the charger at the moment..
When discharging to test capacity do i discharge to 3v?


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I've read somewhere that panasonic recommend around 2.5v for the cut off point as too long under 2.5v can harm the battery. Also the protection circuits you can get on some cells are meant to cut off at 2.5v or their abouts. The persons charts you got the battery from cuts of at 2.75v to show the discharge capacity.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

That's a bigger...the turnigy accucell only has preset discharge programs..

NiCd/NiMH voltage level:1.2V/cell
allowable fast charge current:1C~2C depends on the
performance of cell discharge voltage cut off level
0.85V/cell(NiCd), 1.0V/cell(NiMH)

Lilo voltage level:3.6V/cell
max.charge voltage:4.1V/cell
allowable fast charge current: 1C or less
min.discharge voltage cut off level:2.5V/cell or higher

LiPo voltage level:3.7V/cell
max.charge voltage:4.2V/cell
allowable fast charge current: 1C or less
discharge voltage cut off level:3.0V/cell or higher

Life voltage level:3.3V/cell
max.charge voltage:3.6V/cell
allowable fast charge current: 4C or less(e.g. A123M1)
discharge voltage cut off level:2.0V/cell or higher

Pb voltage level:2.0V/cell
(Lead-acid) max.charge voltage:2.46V/cell
allowable fast charge current:0.4C or less
discharge voltage cut off level:1.50V/cell or higher

Is there any reason why i cant discharge them on the Lilo setting?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

You could discharge a cell 'till the protection kicks in (run a light with it). Then check how much capacity was put back in when you charge it.

I have a GT Power A6 charger that shows the capacity being replaced as it charges, not sure if your charger does that.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> yeti, different seller I know, but my friend has been very happy with his new 2P NCR18650A powered pack. He runs it on med most of the time with occasional spells on high and I don't think he's yet tripped the Vmed warning, even on a 3h night ride earlier this week.
> 
> If I were building a new helmet light for myself, 2 of these would be what I'd get. For bigger packs I'd probably get something cheaper as capacity and power draw would be less of an issue, but I don't think you can do better than these.


matthermuppet, have you got a link to the seller please.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

yetibetty said:


> You could discharge a cell 'till the protection kicks in (run a light with it). Then check how much capacity was put back in when you charge it.
> 
> I have a GT Power A6 charger that shows the capacity being replaced as it charges, not sure if your charger does that.


Yes the turnigy does, I put one on charge, starting voltage was 3.72v, charged up to 4.20v and put in 1500 odd mah
I then discharged to 3v and the capacity drained was 1999mah


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Charge the cell back up @ 1 A 'till the charger says full and see what gets put back in. As you are charging from a cell drained to 3 V I would expect at least 2700 to be put back in if the 3000 mah is to be believed.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

According to Panasonic the low voltage is 2.5v.
I've put the turnigy accucell 6 in NiMh discharge as you can change it to 2.5v cutoff.
I'll then charge at 1amp in lipo mode 4.2v cutoff and see what happens..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok discharged one cell to 2.5v and had to charge it twice as the Turnigy Accucell is set to 120min charge time limit in Lipo mode 4.2v
First charge 4.12v 2005mah 120mins
Second charge 4.20v 666mah 91mins 42sec

2671mah


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Right after the full charge I discharged again to 2.5v and it drained 2971mah...


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Good stuff!!! So the cells look like they live up to their name.

If your charger is like mine you should be able to set the charge time to what ever you want and set the max capacity to charge a battery up to. I have a G.T. Power A6 but I thought that these chargers are all clones of each other.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

They're awesome batteries that's for sure. After a couple of cycles the 2P pack I built was taking over 6000mAh, which is just crazy. The 4P pack I built with the Ultrafires is only 9000mAh with twice the cells!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Matt, When you put your 1S2P together did you have the lead go to the + on the first battery and the - from the second battery?
Only ask as i read that it was advised to do it like so, but didnt give a reason..it was highlighted as a small detail.

I cant see it making much difference, is it possible if you had the lead come of the same cell, even though they are connected in parallel that the cell closest may drain more than the other?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I didn't do it like that, although it's not a bad idea. I just used the thickest wire I could find (from the 12V rail on a PSU!) to minimise any resistance in the wire between the cells. If I did it again, I'd do what you showed ^


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

The link below is very handy, it actually made me understand what was needed to do to build a battery pack!! You can change the different amounts in series and parallel and when making a 1S2P it does show the wires leading to and from opposite batteries.

R/C Calculations


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Got the mount done this evening..
Two shots to show the range of motion possible with this mount..


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## Frede (Dec 7, 2009)

Jaw dropping!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Matt, how did you join your cells up before you plastidipped them?
Have you used the spray on plastidip?
Did you solder them? or did yours have tabs on?

I tried knocking up a case to hold them in, not made the cover yet as i ran out of time..
But i think it will be to bulky for a helemt mounted pack, the external dimensions still need trimming down.


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

Probably not as important when helmet mounted but be careful width spring loaded cells.. Vibration can cause flicker.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I don't think I have any pics of the 2 cell packs I did, but I build all my packs like this, from post 65 on.

Cells are usually hot glued together in whatever orientation I need. I put the glued cells into a little jig that I hold in my vice so there's no risk of accidentally shorting them while I work on the battery.

I solder direct to the cells. First, I rough up the ends with a file or a dremel cutting wheels. Then I tin them with some nice toxic solder (I use a pair of chunky pliers to sink the heat afterwards) plus I tin the wires. After that it's just a case of holding the wires to the solder blobs with the pliers, melt them together and hold the pliers on the join afterwards for a few seconds. You shouldn't need to hold the iron on the cell for more than 5s each time.

After that, I wrap them with marine/ self fusing silicone tape (I've used heatshrink 1st on a couple of newer builds, which is a nice touch), usually around the waist first, then lengthwise over the top of the velcro cinch strap. If you overlap by 50% each wrap, you'll end up with a rubber cover ~4mm thick at least. Then I give it 3-4 coats of the spray plastidip to seal it.

I've build a 2 cell pack with a digikey plastic holder and electricians tape/ spray plastidip (not my prettiest creation, but I'm too lazy to re do it) too, and it comes out pretty much the same weight as the marine tape version (~140g), so you may not save too much weight by ditching the holder.


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

GD, sent you a PM, but maybe it got lost. I've got two of DX sku 100999 that I'd send for a quid postage. They don't work with cells that don't have a pronounced + end; the leads are thin, so would have to be replaced; and they grab the cell with enough vengence that you wouldn't want to be popping cells in and out of them. Still, as a sealed up battery pack, they might work.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

borrower said:


> GD, sent you a PM, but maybe it got lost. I've got two of DX sku 100999 that I'd send for a quid postage. They don't work with cells that don't have a pronounced + end; the leads are thin, so would have to be replaced; and they grab the cell with enough vengence that you wouldn't want to be popping cells in and out of them. Still, as a sealed up battery pack, they might work.


Yes got your PM, but im pretty crap af responding to them straight away, I still have PM's on CPF from people asking for lights that i havent replied to.

I'll give the holders a miss thanks, the holder I've started to make is a nice tight fit so i'm not to concerned about vibration.
The idea of this holder is so i can take the cells out if needed..


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

GD, no problem. Same offer goes out to anyone in the UK... 2 crap holders for a quid. Best case, as noted, is for use in a sealed up pack with a cell that's got a pronounced button +. PM me.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Pretty much finished the battery holder, but waiting on a router rounding bit, so i can round of the edges..
but it weighs 200grams assembled, so i probably wont use it for a helmet light..

Time to try the plasti dip..will one can be enough to cover two cells?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

That looks fantastic Jay. 

You might find that with the light on the front of the helmet and pack on the rear the weight might be quite evenly distributed. I rode with a 14.8v pack on the back of my helmet last winter and after a few rides didn't even notice it. A lot will depend on you neck muscles to. Mine are about as strong as a wet tissue


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

why'd you need to plastidip it, looks pretty well sealed to me?

I also doubt you'll have a problem with 200g on the back - that's what my 3 cell weighs and it doesn't bother me.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> why'd you need to plastidip it, looks pretty well sealed to me?
> 
> I also doubt you'll have a problem with 200g on the back - that's what my 3 cell weighs and it doesn't bother me.


I wasnt going to plasti dip the holder..I was just thinking of using the holder for something else and plasti dipping the two cells on there own to save some weight..


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

ah, that makes more sense. If you're going to plastidip only, you'll need to use the liquid dip in a can, as the spray version makes much thinner layers. Or use marine/ silicone tape and then spray plastidip, which is easier for bigger packs otherwise you'd need a lot of dip to fit it in. You'd only save ~50g though - 2x50g for the cells + cable + strap + covering = about 150g.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I've become a fan of taping up the bare batteries with silicone tape, covering with a layer of heat-shink, then just plasti-dipping the ends.

K-tronik explained that he uses an over-length piece of heat shrink and folds it down tight while it's still soft. I think he glues the edges, but I prefer the plasti-dip.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I've become a fan of taping up the bare batteries with silicone tape, covering with a layer of heat-shink, then just plasti-dipping the ends.
> 
> K-tronik explained that he uses an over-length piece of heat shrink and folds it down tight while it's still soft. I think he glues the edges, but I prefer the plasti-dip.


One think i was concerned about was getting plastidip in the slots on the + terminal of the Panasonic ncr's.
This is the biggest heat shrink tube I can find..should do the trick..then a coating of plastidip
Heat Shrink Tubing 40 mm 5 pcs Black Sleeve Sleeving | eBay
Heat Shrink Tubing 50 mm 5 pcs Black Sleeve Sleeving | eBay

Probably best to use the 50mm as it will have better shrinkage?


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I have found plenty on ebay larger, mainly from far far away! This one in link is glue lined and 69mm wide and also in the UK:

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

I use this stuff as it shrinks with less heat so is better for the cells.
http://forums.mtbr.com/8248479-post39.html


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

yetibetty said:


> I use this stuff as it shrinks with less heat so is better for the cells.
> http://forums.mtbr.com/8248479-post39.html


Cheers Yeti..I did wonder about the damage applying heat to the cells:thumbsup:


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## DIYtailight (Sep 14, 2009)

I doubt you would cause any damage to the cells if you move with some efficiency with the heat gun. My laptop battery can get fairly hot and it has the same 18650 cells. I think also the heat wouldn't penetrate deep into the battery unless you were roasting them, since there is 2 layers of heat shrink (outer layer being put on, and the cell's wrap) and the metal casing, all of which you have to heat up before the chemistry bits get warm, so I don't worry too much about the cells, but I've also only used cheap batteries


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I suppose you could just use sugru to cover the whole battery pack and this would protect and waterproof it.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ruscle said:


> I suppose you could just use sugru to cover the whole battery pack and this would protect and waterproof it.


I think sugru sets hard? If it does it would be a PITA to get the cells out if one went bad, or water found its way in, or i wanted to use the cells for something else..

One reason i made the holder is so that i could swap the cells out with little effort..
I've ordered another pair of NCR18650's which will get the heat shrink and plasti dip treatment


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Cheers Yeti..I did wonder about the damage applying heat to the cells:thumbsup:


You can shrink the cellpacksolution stuff with a hair dryer which is good as I don't have a heat gun. It is the same shiny stuff that is already on each cell only thicker.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Yeti, how do you waterproof the balance connector ends?


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

I don't bother as the packs are in a bag when on the bike but you can cut a finger tip from a latex glove and stretch it over the balance connector.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Yeti what size cellpack solution did you use on your 18650's? 92mm?
Looks like you put the cells in sideways into the cellpack sleeve?


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

Ofroad'bent said:


> ....
> 
> K-tronik explained that he uses an over-length piece of heat shrink and folds it down tight while it's still soft. I think he glues the edges, but I prefer the plasti-dip.


That's what I do and it works fine. A little bit of glue and the heat shrink tube folds and hold's nicely.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Yeti what size cellpack solution did you use on your 18650's? 92mm?
> Looks like you put the cells in sideways into the cellpack sleeve?


I use 2 sizes. First I go around width ways and then lenght ways. Cant help withn the 2 sizes you'll want though as I have only done 3 & 5 cell packs.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

You could look at adding a length of velcro through the last layer of heat shrink to fix the pack to your helmet, only problem I can see is having to brush the plastidip on.


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

I usually put two loops of wire or two zip ties around the pack and then the shrink tube / tape /plastidip over them. Then I attach a loop of velcro around the pack. The zip ties prevent the velcro from sliding off.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

You guys that are using the 3M dual lock tape, which one are you using?
Assuming its the low profile one SJ4570?

The other two types are 3.5mm unmated, so 7mm when stuck togther. Seems a bit bulky.

Cheers


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm using this stuff:
3M DUAL LOCK TAPE 5 X STRONGER THAN VELCRO STRIPS - SUPER HEAVY DUTY FASTENERS | eBay

(Let's see if MTBR allows the eBay link. If not, it's item # 180734834847 or 230706173824).


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

The dual lock I use is 5.5mm but it might be a 3M clone that I have hence having a size in between. I t was still pretty expensive stuff though but works incredibly well. I have been using it on helmet lights for 3 years now and have never had it let go unless I catch the light on a low branch which is when I want it let go.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers guys..
Found the same SJ3550 on ebay uk


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Now that this has become a discussion about home made cell packs I have a question for all of you that have the balance leads permanently exposed.

It feels like all it has done in Sydney for the last 12 months is rain, so what do you do about protecting the balance plug from getting water into it and shorting it out, or is that not going to happen?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Now that this has become a discussion about home made cell packs I have a question for all of you that have the balance leads permanently exposed.
> 
> It feels like all it has done in Sydney for the last 12 months is rain, so what do you do about protecting the balance plug from getting water into it and shorting it out, or is that not going to happen?


Get yourself a Nubrella


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Get yourself a Nubrella


Mate that would be excellent to stop all the Orb spiders smacking me in the face trails I ride. The bastards build there webs across the trail at 10-15 metre intervals so you are forever stopping to get rid of spiders and some of them are bloody big. Getting shivers just thinking about it.

Once you have done 1 lap of the course you are fine but that first lap is nightmarish like The Blair Witch


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Now that this has become a discussion about home made cell packs I have a question for all of you that have the balance leads permanently exposed.
> 
> It feels like all it has done in Sydney for the last 12 months is rain, so what do you do about protecting the balance plug from getting water into it and shorting it out, or is that not going to happen?


I don't worry about it as there are no delicate electronics involved as it's just a plug but you could cut a finger tip off a latex glove and stretch it over the balance connector to keep it dry.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

yetibetty said:


> I don't worry about it as there are no delicate electronics involved as it's just a plug but you could cut a finger tip off a latex glove and stretch it over the balance connector to keep it dry.


Do you not risk shorting out the battery? Wouldn't really want to have a lipo sitting on the back of the helmet and having it short out.

Brad, the Orbs are bad down here as well, particularly mid week at night or first thing in the morning.


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Now that this has become a discussion about home made cell packs I have a question for all of you that have the balance leads permanently exposed.
> 
> It feels like all it has done in Sydney for the last 12 months is rain, so what do you do about protecting the balance plug from getting water into it and shorting it out, or is that not going to happen?


On my last build I thought about this and came up with a solution. I took a female balance end I had laying around and put some clear shrink wrap around it. It works pretty good and is waterproof.


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## DIYtailight (Sep 14, 2009)

Computer power supplies often come with the 12V old-style hard drive connectors covered in a little rubber boot. You could cut some plastic to the size of the connector and dip it in a hardening rubber (is plasticdip rubbery? I've never used it...) then pop it off (might want to coat the plastic, or wood, or whatever you use for the mold in some oil/moisturizer) and use it as a rubber cap/boot.


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## Road_Runner (Mar 31, 2009)

I got round the problem by cutting a small flap in the neoprene battery pouch, then fitted another external flap over the top, glued onto the pouch at one end and velcro-ed at the other to allow it to be opened when required.


























I charge the battery on the bike and so use multiple balance leads joined together to connect to the balance port on the charger.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I use a short piece of road bike inner tube scavenged from the bike shop. Zip tie it beneath the plug then fold it over and wrap an elastic band around it. To charge, remove elastic band, fold back the tube and plug it in. I've never had water get in on any of my balance plugs, even after some truly miserable weather.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers Yeti, That cell pack solution stuff is perfect..:thumbsup:
Ordered some yesterday and it turned up this morning..
Didn't even tape the cells together, just put some of the sleeving over, shrunk it with BRAD's hairdryer
Then solder the cells together, then put another piece of sleeve over the opposite way with a hole cut in to thread the cable through..
Heated it up again and its all tight as a ducks ass..

Just waiting for the plastidip to turn up so i can make it water tight..


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

very tidy  I'd recommend filling the whole where the cable comes out with something though - the spray plastidip at least is pretty useless for filling holes, don't know about the dip stuff although I'd assume its better as it's thicker.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Cheers Yeti, That cell pack solution stuff is perfect..:thumbsup:
> Ordered some yesterday and it turned up this morning..
> Didn't even tape the cells together, just put some of the sleeving over, shrunk it with BRAD's hairdryer
> Then solder the cells together, then put another piece of sleeve over the opposite way with a hole cut in to thread the cable through..
> ...


Looks really good Jay. I think I'll have to buy some the cells you got. I just need to find a local supplier of the cell heatshrink.

Glad the 10,273 mile extension lead from my hair dryer reached ok without to much voltage drop


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks Matt..
Filled the hole


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

brad72 said:


> Looks really good Jay. I think I'll have to buy some the cells you got. I just need to find a local supplier of the cell heatshrink.


Brad does this mean you know of a local supplier for the plastidip or do you use an alternative ?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

find_bruce said:


> Brad does this mean you know of a local supplier for the plastidip or do you use an alternative ?


Mate check out these guys Where you can purchase Plasti Dip, plastidip, Liquid Electrical Tape, VLP, or from caswell Plasti Dip

I used to buy my plasti dip from blackwoods to use on machine handles, tools etc but they no longer stock it. Australia is pretty slack when it comes to supply of left field stuff as you have probably found.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

brad72 said:


> Mate check out these guys Where you can purchase Plasti Dip, plastidip, Liquid Electrical Tape, VLP, or from caswell Plasti Dip
> 
> I used to buy my plasti dip from blackwoods to use on machine handles, tools etc but they no longer stock it. Australia is pretty slack when it comes to supply of left field stuff as you have probably found.


Cheers - interesting that it is $14 cheaper from Caswell but the cost of freight rules that out.

A trip to Condell Park should be safe enough - if I'm quick


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Cheers Yeti, That cell pack solution stuff is perfect..:thumbsup:
> Ordered some yesterday and it turned up this morning..
> Didn't even tape the cells together, just put some of the sleeving over, shrunk it with BRAD's hairdryer
> Then solder the cells together, then put another piece of sleeve over the opposite way with a hole cut in to thread the cable through..
> ...


It's great stuff and they are a great company with almost instant delivery.(I don't work for them) Keep any left over in the fridge though as it srinks so easy. I left some on the table and the sun through the window shrunk it.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers for the tips guys..
I ended up ripping the sleeving off and starting again, as the cable kept spinning and breaking the seal.

So i ended up using one of the little rubber strain reliefs, i cut it so that it fitted inbetween the the two cells and wouldnt spin..
Held that in place and shrunk some of the sleeving over it, which held it in place nice and tight. 2 more wraps and some silicone sealant around the bottom of the strain relief to fill any holes.
3 coats of plastidip spray, ill probably give it another coat after its dried properly.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

that's looking like a neat solution, well done


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks stu..

Just popped it on the scales, comes in at 109grams


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I was just having a bit of a clean up and found an old punctured innertube..
So if you dont have the shrink sleeving and plastidip you can try and waterproof your battery pack with one. Here's how i did it..
Cut a length off about 2.5 times as long as the battery's, My cells havent been soldered together in this example as i was just playing about.
Make a little hole as seen in the picture for your lead to come through..








I havent done it, but put a bead of silicone sealant where the red box is in the pic, fold the innertube over and thread it over the opposite end pulling it tight.
Run some super glue under the flap and stick it down. and then run some super glue along the underside of the edges and stick it down..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Finally all put together..feels nice and balanced on the head 
Its finally snowing outside:devil:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> I was just having a bit of a clean up and found an old punctured innertube..
> So if you dont have the shrink sleeving and plastidip you can try and waterproof your battery pack with one. Here's how i did it..
> Cut a length off about 2.5 times as long as the battery's, My cells havent been soldered together in this example as i was just playing about.
> Make a little hole as seen in the picture for your lead to come through..
> ...


I Like that method Jay and also you could install a velcro strap before glueing it up


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Does anybody know of a 3.7v charger that I can just chop the lead off and put my own connector on, so i can charge up the 1S2P?
Personally I just use my turnigy charger, but I'm looking for a cheaper less complicated option for a mate who wants one of my helmet lights..
I'm looking for something like smudges smart chargers 7.4V 2S Charger - Li-Ion Batteries and Chargers - Assembled in the UK

Cheers

Edit..
Think this will do the trick SMC 3.7v Minium/MCX Style Lithium Charger


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Does anybody know of a 3.7v charger that I can just chop the lead off and put my own connector on, so i can charge up the 1S2P?
> Personally I just use my turnigy charger, but I'm looking for a cheaper less complicated option for a mate who wants one of my helmet lights..
> I'm looking for something like smudges smart chargers 7.4V 2S Charger - Li-Ion Batteries and Chargers - Assembled in the UK
> 
> ...


Jay this is charger I am looking at for mates to charge with Tenergy TLP-4000 1A Universal 3.7v -14.8v (1-4S) Lithium Battery Pack CHARGER | eBay. It can charge 1S to 4S packs so very universal. Like you I have a really good charger that is too expensive for a small pack.

The small sussex charger only puts out 180mA so will take a long time to charge up your 2.5A packs. The ebay one I listed charges at 1A so will be more like the charger you have at home.

This could be another option Imax B6 LiPo Battery Balancer Charger+AC Adapter 12V 5A | eBay


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

be wary of the imax chargers on fleabay, it is my understanding there are a lot of fakes, although I have no idea what the difference is or how you tell real from fake.

Hobby King lists and sells both real and copies on their website.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

emu26 said:


> be wary of the imax chargers on fleabay, it is my understanding there are a lot of fakes, although I have no idea what the difference is or how you tell real from fake.
> 
> Hobby King lists and sells both real and copies on their website.


That would explain the cheap cost.

I have been using a tenergy charger like the one listed for 2 years with no problems so it might be a good choice.

I assume you have been woken by the young fella jay.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Jay smudge does have single cell chargers I am using one at the moment just not on his site 
mail him


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

brad72 said:


> Jay this is charger I am looking at for mates to charge with Tenergy TLP-4000 1A Universal 3.7v -14.8v (1-4S) Lithium Battery Pack CHARGER | eBay. It can charge 1S to 4S packs so very universal. Like you I have a really good charger that is too expensive for a small pack.


I have used this charger for a couple lights I built for others. Worked fine on 4S1P packs. Only complaint is the battery protection board would sometimes stop the charge before the charger thought it was done. All that does is just leaves the green LED on the charger lit. This happened on two charger/battery sets. A different protection PCB would likely not act this way. In either case of the charger shutting off or the PCB shutting off, the pack voltage was 16.8_V. There was a few hundredths of a volt difference from one charge to another.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Jay smudge does have single cell chargers I am using one at the moment just not on his site
> mail him


Cheers chris,
I was hoping he might, i did mail him yesterday..just waiting for his reply


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Jay this is charger I am looking at for mates to charge with Tenergy TLP-4000 1A Universal 3.7v -14.8v (1-4S) Lithium Battery Pack CHARGER | eBay. It can charge 1S to 4S packs so very universal. Like you I have a really good charger that is too expensive for a small pack.
> 
> The small sussex charger only puts out 180mA so will take a long time to charge up your 2.5A packs. The ebay one I listed charges at 1A so will be more like the charger you have at home.
> 
> This could be another option Imax B6 LiPo Battery Balancer Charger+AC Adapter 12V 5A | eBay


Cant find that charger in the uk..
As Vancbiker mentioned about the pcb problem, that wouldnt be an issue with the panasonic cells I'm using as there non protected.


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## Rich_SC (Oct 10, 2009)

My Hobby King charger doesn't like my 18650 7.4v battery packs. I also have an iMax B6 and it will only charge 18650's by using the "auto" setting. These chargers work great for lipo's.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> As Vancbiker mentioned about the pcb problem, that wouldnt be an issue with the panasonic cells I'm using as there non protected.


The charge cut-off was the result of the pack protection pcb. The cells used in the packs were unprotected.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Single cell chargers are certainly hard to find, especially with a decent charge current.
Did find this..RcMods - Walkera 4#3B - HM-4#3B-Z-29 - Charger (4.2v 500mAh)
still only 500mah so looking at a long charge time..


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

for a 3.7V charger I just buy a 18650 charger from DX and an extension lead, then solder the appropriate plug to the charger terminals inside the case. It's only 500mA but it gets the job done eventually, plus it has the bonus of being able to charge individual 18650 cells. Total cost is ~$11 and takes 20-30min tops.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> for a 3.7V charger I just buy a 18650 charger from DX and an extension lead, then solder the appropriate plug to the charger terminals inside the case. It's only 500mA but it gets the job done eventually, plus it has the bonus of being able to charge individual 18650 cells. Total cost is ~$11 and takes 20-30min tops.


I want these to look more professional, as its not for my use 

I have two of the DX chargers, there a bit tempremental.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

fair enough, they do look a little ghetto. No problems with the 10 or so I've bought though.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Another one complete, and off to live on someone else's noggin..
Made a round remote switch, should be easy to feel with gloved hands..


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Looks great! :thumbsup:



***


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Hope it looks as good on my helmet 
Will be using the idea of the dual lock to help hold the light up front.
Great workmanship and service again Jay.:thumbsup:


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

A Gold one to now complete the 3 amigos..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Beautiful set of lights mate


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

[/URL]
Golddigger helmet light by radsik gnarly!, on Flickr[/IMG]







[/URL]
Golddigger helmet light by radsik gnarly!, on Flickr[/IMG]

Top job again by Jay :thumbsup:

Cheers Jay and see you nice and early on the first day of spring!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers Russle,
Glad you like it  Nice work with the battery pack and keeping the lead extra short :thumbsup:

(ive just finished putting the needle bearing in, setup the xtr shifters.. But my forks are bugging me so there going to get stripped again )


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

This little light now takes on a new guise... Tripple XTE, just waiting for some b3flex and lflex to arrive in the post..this will obviously get a lflex and all 3 xt-e wired in series.
As according to the taskled lflex pdf, the lflex supports 3 XML..
so 3 XTE..
3 x 3.4vf = 10.2
input voltage 3 x 4.2v = 12.6v 3 li-on
12.6 - 10.2 x 1.5(amps) = 3.6w to loose at heat..

Also anodised it red, as that was the only colour i hadn't tried out of my dyes yet..


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

A beauty as usual!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Very Nice JD. I knew you knew you would succumb to the red one day. 


.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers Vanc..Brad..
Blue is still my favorite...


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Very interested to see what the beamshot looks like compared with your XM-L versions.
Great light.


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

HI Goldigger,
for 3x lflex, don't recommend going over 2x leds, unless you 'd go lifepo4.
for helmet 3x leds, -> maxflex 2S battery, otherwise, b3flex.
oh, blue, where is the blue ?
got my b3flex, but don't fit my housing, crap, have to redo it.
looks to be an improvement, different inductor, extra cap on switch, still double sided.
your remote switch, is that waterproof ?


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

The remote switch size and shape are brilliant. Should be easy to actuate with gloves on, no matter what the weather.

The anodizing is beautiful. Very well done.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thanks TB

Rob..switch is waterproof..ip rated tactile switch, I mill a little round pedestal that the base of the switch sits on. This leaves enough room for the wires and some silicone sealant , around the pedestal.
Hope that makes sense as I have no pics..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I Finally wired up the tripple XT-E..
Interestingly and confusingly..
On low it only consumes 0.24 amps at 10.2v








On high 3amps consumes 1.17amps at 10.2v









It does get warmer quicker than the single XM-L which can be expected, but didnt trip the 60°C thermal trip point while in the house..
I still need to knock up a mount for this one.and a battery pack.
I'll post up beam shots at the weekend when its stopped peeing down with rain.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Forget interestingly and confusingly..I just realised I set the lflex to 3amps max..habit of setting the lflex up for the XM-L!
But the LEDs didn't go blue


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Here's the beamshots, single xml ledil LXM RS vs 20mm triple XT-E Carclo 20mm Narrow
XML








3xXT-E









Here's a gif for easier comparison


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Bah, now I don't like my XM-Ls all that much any more. 
GD, did you use an L-flex for this one, with 3S1P battery?

I know there was discussion of Bflex 3.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Bah, now I don't like my XM-Ls all that much any more.
> GD, did you use an L-flex for this one, with 3S1P battery?
> 
> I know there was discussion of Bflex 3.


You got it :thumbsup:
Lflex and 3S1P battery...page 5 on the lflex PDF says it supports 3x led with 3 Li-on 
http://www.taskled.com/leds/lflexuni3_v1.00.pdf


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Goldigger, thanks for the nice example comparison of your small form factor light. I was surprised to see that the XTE had both a brighter hot spot and better lighting at the side of the trail.

I decided to compare the output of the XML and XTE on the Cree Product Characterization tool. It looks like they have almost identical efficiency as far as lumens per watt. The advantage of the 3 up is that there is approximately 50% more lumens with 3 XTE at 1.5 A versus 1 XML at 3 A. Since they are both equally efficient, the 50% more lumen output comes at a price of 50% more power consumption.

Thanks for posting the beamshots. By the way, how to you set up the comparison GIF shots?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ThinkBike said:


> Goldigger, thanks for the nice example comparison of your small form factor light. I was surprised to see that the XTE had both a brighter hot spot and better lighting at the side of the trail.
> 
> I decided to compare the output of the XML and XTE on the Cree Product Characterization tool. It looks like they have almost identical efficiency as far as lumens per watt. The advantage of the 3 up is that there is approximately 50% more lumens with 3 XTE at 1.5 A versus 1 XML at 3 A. Since they are both equally efficient, the 50% more lumen output comes at a price of 50% more power consumption.
> 
> Thanks for posting the beamshots. By the way, how to you set up the comparison GIF shots?


Your welcome..
Yep I see your maths..It's ammusing that such a little light can put out so much light
XT-E R5 1.5amps 491.5 lumens 3 x 491.5=1474.5 lumens
XM-L U2 3amps 975.6 lumens

Obviously these figures are off the cree selector tool and dont take into account losses..

I put the gif's together in photo shop, do you have photo shop?
If not you can do it online Picasion GIF maker - Create GIF animations online - Make an Animated GIF - GIF Animator but your limited to 450 pixels wide..


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Nice looking light GD but now I am confused by your beamshots. The XP-E pic says 3 @ 3A, is that just a typo or are they in parallel seeing 1A each


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Nice looking light GD but now I am confused by your beamshots. The XP-E pic says 3 @ 3A, is that just a typo or are they in parallel seeing 1A each


Well spotted.. typo that should have been 3x XT-E 1500ma (each-in series)
Images amended..
Cheers


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Carclo optics?


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## Dalistro (Sep 21, 2011)

Yes, he said it in post 179 ;P


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

great job on the beamshots (and anodising!) GD  Do you still have a single XM-L with a Laura RS or LC1 kicking around still? The LXM is a bit of an odd optic in that it has a fairly narrow but even beam (narrow flood or wide spot I guess) without an obvious hotspot, so it's inevitably going to fall down in a comparison. That's not to take away from the triple as it looks like it has a lovely beam, only that it might give people the impression it's a throw monster when it might not be.


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## Morwa (Jan 26, 2012)

Goldigger,

These are beauties. One technical question though. What is the width (thickness) of the wall between your led and driver? On this little triple XP-E, as well as your original cute Triple XM-L. 

I presume you fit the led's to one side and the driver to the other side of the wall. What width is required for optimal heat dissipation? Doesn't the heat from the led's interfere with the driver's temperature?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I finally finished the gold one of these..








Bought a 1amp charger..here's my question..How long will it take to charge my battery? 1S2P 6200mah..
If my voltage cutoff is set to 3v then i will have some capacity left right?
So the charging maths simply isnt 6200/1 = 6.2 hours?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

it'll do most of the charging at 1A, then the last few 100mAh will be at an ever decreasing current, so dividing capacity by charge current is decent enough way of doing it. You can probably add 10-15% on top of that, but it should be done in 7h or thereabouts.


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

What's the max amperage we can charge these things with a hobby charger, if we need a fast charge?
(24 hr race coming up)


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

if you absolutely have to, you can charge 18650 cells at 1C, but I really wouldn't recommend it. Between 3/4 and 1C should be fine occasionally (4.5-6A in GD's case), but I wouldn't go above 1/2C regularly as it will shorten cell life. I usually charge my packs at around 1/4-1/3C.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I charge my lipo's at 1C as thats whats recommended, i think some off mine are rated at 2C..
So Li-ons are not recommended to be charged at 1C?


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## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

mattthemuppet said:


> if you absolutely have to, you can charge 18650 cells at 2C, but I really wouldn't recommend it. 1C should be fine occasionally (6A in GD's case), but I wouldn't go above 1/2C regularly as it will shorten cell life. I usually charge my packs at around 1/4-1/3C.


So, translating- that's 3A for a 1S2P pack for regular charging?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> I charge my lipo's at 1C as thats whats recommended, i think some off mine are rated at 2C..
> So Li-ons are not recommended to be charged at 1C?


li-ions (round cells, 18650s etc) shouldn't be charged at more than 1C and ideally should be charged at 1/2C or less (just had to check up on that!)

li-pos (flat rectangular cells, R/C batteries etc) can be discharged at ridiculously high currents (20C at above) and charged at 1, 2 and even 5C depending on the pack.

Independent of chemistry, charging at a lower charge rate prolongs the life of the pack. That 1A charger equates to ~1/6C which should be super gentle. Even a 2A charger would be fine.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> So, translating- that's 3A for a 1S2P pack for regular charging?


C= charge rate expressed as a fraction of the capacity of the battery pack. So to charge a 6Ah battery at 1C, you'd need to supply 6A.

If you're using those CGR18650s I sent you, 1C = ~5A (2x 2.5Ah batteries)


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> li-ions (round cells, 18650s etc) shouldn't be charged at more than 1C and ideally should be charged at 1/2C or less (just had to check up on that!)
> 
> li-pos (flat rectangular cells, R/C batteries etc) can be discharged at ridiculously high currents (20C at above) and charged at 1, 2 and even 5C depending on the pack.
> 
> Independent of chemistry, charging at a lower charge rate prolongs the life of the pack. That 1A charger equates to ~1/6C which should be super gentle. Even a 2A charger would be fine.


Thats the problem i couldnt find anything higher than a 1amp charger, that was not expsensive..
And that i can chop the end of and put a matching connector for my M8 cables..


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Goldigger

Thanks for doing the xml-xt-e tripple comparison. The XT-E looks real good. I just got notice today that the 5000k samsung led i ordered ages ago have shipped. I hope I will get my hands on the in another 2 weeks or however long shipping takes. All I will have to compare the new samsung to is an old xp-e. I will be using 10mm carclo squares which are quite similar to the 20mm tipple.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

*.... cheap!!*

Goldigger, i have this very versatile auto-detect >3A charger
RIPMAX-PRO-PEAK-QUATTRO-1-4-CELL
chop the output lead .... sorted!! :thumbsup:


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

This got me thinking so I emailed the guy I bought my Blazer 18650's from and he to confirmed to charge them at 1A as 1C is too fast. 

I always charge my lipo's at 1C but never really thought about the li-ion's.


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Goldigger, i have this very versatile auto-detect >3A charger
> RIPMAX-PRO-PEAK-QUATTRO-1-4-CELL
> chop the output lead .... sorted!! :thumbsup:


That charger seems to lack balancing and charging at 3A through that little jst connector is not something I would want to do. But I know not having balance would not matter for a 1S2P. Which is essentially the same as charging a single cell. The life of a parallel pack will depend on how well the cells are matched. The best would be to balance charge the two cells in series and use them in parallel.

I have been quite pleased with my turnigy accucel 6 charger from hobby king. I have used it to charge all sorts of different battery configurations and types and it has not given me one bit of trouble. It even does LiFe. So many options and fail safes with this charger I actually trust it to keep batteries happy for many cycles. I have used it to charge cannon camera batteries, spare droid phone batteries, a LiFe AA cell, a car battery, my 4S2P liIo 18650 pack, my new 4S lipo pack, even AA and AAA Nimh cells.

Mine cost less than 20 bucks shipped and the cost of some ceramic 5Watt resistors for the computer power supply mod. I even added a usb charge socket to my computer power supply for charging USB devices like IPODS and my GoPro camera

I use an old computer power supply I modified to power it since its 12v dc input.

When I have lots of time i charge my big old 4S2P 4.4Ah battery at 500ma and it takes more mah's according to my charger. When I charge it at 2A it does not take as many mah's so charging at a lower current is better for getting more capacity and more cycles out of the battery WIN/WIN. 
This WIN/WIN scenario is supported by more 18650 LiIo data sheets.

My new LiPo pack on the other hand when I forget to charge I just throw that thing on the charger and hit it with 5A and its still not even close to the 2.65Ah x 5C = 13.25A its capable of but 5A is all my charger does. It sure does charge up fast at the 5A fast charge setting where it keeps it at constant current longer, still pretty fast at the 5A balance charge setting. I like having a charger that can boost, or buck input voltages and do constant current or constant voltage. Its really nice being able to do any where from 1.2V 100ma to 24V 5A. Its very accurate to the voltage readings match my BK tools multimeter spot on. Not to mention the usb or temperature probe connectivity and readily available break out boards and charge harnesses. Its also good for judging a batteries performance. If over time the pack takes less and less mah's according to the chager you know its on its way out. You also get a feel for how well a pack had the cells matched based on how well the pack stays balanced

The truly smart RC charger is about as good as it gets in my opinion. I only wish I would have gone with a 10A unit. batteries are a disposable commodity but a good charger will last.

Sorry for the thread jack.


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