# XC Skiing Cross Training



## us338386 (May 10, 2015)

For the past five years I've mostly gotten off the bike and skate ski from December through March with the exception of 12 miles/day of junk bike commuting miles. Normally I train pretty hard on the skis (intensity and duration) as I do on the bike. I'd like to stay on the bike more this winter as I am not training for any specific event on the skis this year. 100% focus on being ready for bike season beginning in May of next year. FWIW, I sold the trainer and bought a fat bike.

There seems to be some XC skiers on this forum. Curious if/how others have found success integrating the two disciplines.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think cyclist who XC ski in the winter have a huge advantage over those who ride year round. The freshness and excitement of switching disciplines should not be underestimated.

Generally, I do intensity on the trainer and volume on the skis. Right now for riding I am doing one trainer session per week and one fat bike ride per week. The rest of my training is all on skis. I usually keep this pattern going until the end of January and then start to increase the bike time throughout February. This year with all of our events being quite a bit later than normal I will keep a ski focus much longer.

I also find that skiing really helps fix some the body issues I get with cycling.


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## geofharries (Jun 2, 2006)

I concur with *LMN. *Achieving a balance is important.

I skate ski and fat bike. Although, the past two years I've biked too much in winter (mostly commuting, about 10 km each way) and paid the price with some long-term chronic injuries. It's taken me a while to recover from those. I ended up with numb hands, a sore neck and rounded shoulders.

This winter I've been fat biking much less (no more than twice a week) and skiing way more. I think it's a good idea to get out of that "egg" position that riding a bike puts you in and start to stand up straight, and expand your chest and shoulders. At least, that's what my physiotherapist told me and I'm seeing the difference in how I feel.

When I was younger, I could ride my bike all year long and was fine. As I've got older, I am finding the sport change vital. I also feel less burned out on biking and can appreciate and get excited about it much more when spring comes.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

What's this "snow" you talk about?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

geofharries said:


> I concur with *LMN. *Achieving a balance is important.
> 
> I skate ski and fat bike. Although, the past two years I've biked too much in winter (mostly commuting, about 10 km each way) and paid the price with some long-term chronic injuries. It's taken me a while to recover from those. I ended up with numb hands, a sore neck and rounded shoulders.
> 
> ...


I find classic skiing more than skate helps my body feel good. The kickback really helps improve that range of motion in my hips. But I am a better skate ski than classic and find it difficult to do classic skis longer than 2hrs.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> I find classic skiing more than skate helps my body feel good. The kickback really helps improve that range of motion in my hips. But I am a better skate ski than classic and find it difficult to do classic skis longer than 2hrs.


I find it nice not to touch the bike during the winter. It keeps me motivated. I don't really enjoy riding in the cold because it is just too col

I do about fifty fifty classic and skate. Classic skiing helps with raw athleticism and body control. Somehow bike racers are always better skate skiers... I think it is because you can be a good skate skier with a relatively weak upper body.

You might feel a little weaker in April on the bike but it'll balance out because every session on the bike you'll notice an improvement. I don't think riding through the winter helps you in september


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## us338386 (May 10, 2015)

Skiing really helps me perform other normal activities like landscaping in the spring or lift luggage to the overhead bin! 

I like this idea of intensity on the bike and sticking to base on skis. However, getting structured intensity on the Fattie in the woods can be a bit of a challenge. Last year I had a weekly spin class which helped prevent the knife from getting dull, but that is definitely out this season. Perhaps I'll try higher paced work on Friday evenings when they let fat bikers on the mostly empty ski trails.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

xcskier66 said:


> I do about fifty fifty classic and skate. Classic skiing helps with raw athleticism and body control. Somehow bike racers are always better skate skiers... I think it is because you can be a good skate skier with a relatively weak upper body.


Upper body strength for sure. The amount of time I can spend double poling is pretty limited. Plus, I find that classic skiing is way more technique sensitive. I find that when I get tired on classics ski I really struggle to find kick and get very frustrated quickly. Although I absolutely love classic skiing, if the temperature is colder than -10C I will only classic ski.

I think one of the big mistakes that cyclist do is make our skis too long. A couple of years ago I was punching out 60-70km skis on the weekend. I would head to work on Mondays just absolutely shattered. Now to get the hours in on weekends I often do a double workout. Tomorrow, I will head up for a 30-40km ski in the a.m. and then in the even hop on the trainer for an 1hr.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

XC skiing just looks horrible.


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## geofharries (Jun 2, 2006)

LMN said:


> Upper body strength for sure. The amount of time I can spend double poling is pretty limited. Plus, I find that classic skiing is way more technique sensitive. I find that when I get tired on classics ski I really struggle to find kick and get very frustrated quickly. Although I absolutely love classic skiing, if the temperature is colder than -10C I will only classic ski.
> 
> I think one of the big mistakes that cyclist do is make our skis too long. A couple of years ago I was punching out 60-70km skis on the weekend. I would head to work on Mondays just absolutely shattered. Now to get the hours in on weekends I often do a double workout. Tomorrow, I will head up for a 30-40km ski in the a.m. and then in the even hop on the trainer for an 1hr.


Oh wow! That's nuts. I rarely ski more than 15 km in one day. That is, unless there's a 50 km event and then I'll do 20 km of "training" (and struggle/wish for death through the remaining 30 km). True story.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> Upper body strength for sure. The amount of time I can spend double poling is pretty limited. Plus, I find that classic skiing is way more technique sensitive. I find that when I get tired on classics ski I really struggle to find kick and get very frustrated quickly. Although I absolutely love classic skiing, if the temperature is colder than -10C I will only classic ski.
> 
> I think one of the big mistakes that cyclist do is make our skis too long. A couple of years ago I was punching out 60-70km skis on the weekend. I would head to work on Mondays just absolutely shattered. Now to get the hours in on weekends I often do a double workout. Tomorrow, I will head up for a 30-40km ski in the a.m. and then in the even hop on the trainer for an 1hr.


im Assuming you are using a heart rate monitor to pace. It's very easy to grind up into sub threshold heart rate on a long ski. It's also easy to forget to drink cause of the cold. The combo of too
High hr and too little water is devastating.

when I ski with elite skiers on their long days, I'm surprised how slow they go. They are always geared low in technique choice too. Coach skate is fine on long days.

my hack tip: dress a little too warm for your long skis. It'll make it easier to ski slow. And stay in the low range of your "skier" level 1 heart rate.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

xcskier66 said:


> when I ski with elite skiers on their long days, I'm surprised how slow they go. They are always geared low in technique choice too. Coach skate is fine on long days.


I swear the faster the skier is the slower they ski. I have skied with a couple of Olympians over the years and they do their long skis unbelievably slow. I had a good chat with one of your compatriots, Kikan Randal, this year on a mountain bike ride on the difference between ski training and mountain bike training.

I am able to ski at a very reasonable heart rate, today was 3hrs at 135bpm. Very similar to what I would average on a typical 3hr ride.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

I know I need a break from the riding and racing structure, so I enjoy xc skiing. When done right, it offers an incredible workout. I know on the hard days I end up just as gassed as a solid day on the bike.

And what's not to love about being in the woods after a nice snowfall?


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## MNSnoPro (Mar 1, 2016)

Just started XC skiing(Classic) last winter to get a break from being on the trainer/cycling focused all winter. Never imagined I would of enjoyed it as much as I did. It's become a true passion. Like so many have said, the mental recharge is phenomenal and physically it really helps to correct the imbalances I develop from so much time on the bike in the warmer months. You've seen this with your experience no doubt. 

Most if not all skiing sessions were low intensity and longer in duration followed by a sauna. Did a couple VO2 max sessions but as a newb my technique quickly went out the window and I didn't want to learn any more bad habits than I've already picked up without an instructor. I'm confident that the addition of XC skiing last winter was the reason for my significant bump in fitness when compared to other years when I stayed strictly on the bike.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MNSnoPro said:


> Just started XC skiing(Classic) last winter to get a break from being on the trainer/cycling focused all winter. Never imagined I would of enjoyed it as much as I did. It's become a true passion. Like so many have said, the mental recharge is phenomenal and physically it really helps to correct the imbalances I develop from so much time on the bike in the warmer months. You've seen this with your experience no doubt.
> 
> Most if not all skiing sessions were low intensity and longer in duration followed by a sauna. Did a couple VO2 max sessions but as a newb my technique quickly went out the window and I didn't want to learn any more bad habits than I've already picked up without an instructor. I'm confident that the addition of XC skiing last winter was the reason for my significant bump in fitness when compared to other years when I stayed strictly on the bike.


Glad you took it up! It's not easy when done correctly. The quads and glutes take a huge benefit from it, too, along with your aerobic system.


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## b rock (Jan 5, 2017)

I'm curious how alpine touring style backcountry skiing would fit into a mountain biker's cross training, combined with, or instead of classic and skate cross country skiing. Harder to keep the HR in a good range for high volume work with AT? 
I don't live near the snow, so I can only dream of daily outdoor ski cross training.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

My wife's family in eastern europe does cross country ski. I've heard it as cross training for guys up North. It will definitely be on my New Year's resolution list for 2021, thanks for bringing it up.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> I swear the faster the skier is the slower they ski. I have skied with a couple of Olympians over the years and they do their long skis unbelievably slow. I had a good chat with one of your compatriots, Kikan Randal, this year on a mountain bike ride on the difference between ski training and mountain bike training.
> 
> I am able to ski at a very reasonable heart rate, today was 3hrs at 135bpm. Very similar to what I would average on a typical 3hr ride.


I was thinking of some of the bigger differences between XC skiing and MTB training.

1. XC skiers tend to treat long days as hard days. A long 3+ hour aerobic workout can be as taxing as an interval day. Hard days hard and then easy days easy. 
2. XC skiers tend to do two workouts a day on "easy days". When you are training 25+ hours a week and you need 4+ hours a day, it's easier on the body to break it up into two sessions. As a amateur hack, I like to do two a days sometimes. It can fit better into my schedule than a 2 hour ride or ski (especially if you have to drive to trails). 
3. XC skiers know you can get in amazing shape with relatively little "specific training". If you do your easy workouts in another modality, say running, rowing, skiing,skating, etc... but are able to do a couple specific intensity workouts a week you can get near peak fitness. I think bikers probably spend too much time riding. Nino schurter runs 2-3 hours a week and does intervals running on steep uphills...it gives the body a nice rest. 
4. Elite XC skiers periodize their strength training like the rest of power world does. Everyone knows that periodizing your aerobic work reaps benefits and the same thing is true with strength. If you spend all year doing a couple pushups and broish heavy squats in your basement...not gonna help you much. Good strength training has a general phase, power, speed/power, speed and then maintenance phase during racing season. Look up what sports like T&F do for strength...they are light years ahead of most cyclists. 
5. In XC skiing threshold is a feeling not a power or HR value. You need to feel the course and conditions. A soggy 50f classic threshold pace is a very different effort level than an icy fast skating threshold pace. XC cyclist I think could benefit from treating threshold workouts as a feeling (e.g what is sustainable on this course for me today?).

THoughts?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

b rock said:


> I'm curious how alpine touring style backcountry skiing would fit into a mountain biker's cross training, combined with, or instead of classic and skate cross country skiing. Harder to keep the HR in a good range for high volume work with AT?
> I don't live near the snow, so I can only dream of daily outdoor ski cross training.


That depends on your slope and the difficulty of the terrain. The frequency of activity would be the bigger issue. The friends I go with for BC go up just crazy stuff, not avalanche terrain, but steep trees and edges to avoid the avy terrain and I swear they can climb stuff far steeper than they can ski down. Blows my mind how steep some of it is that we climb and the HR is through the roof during those ascents. It's not something most people can go do 3-4 times a week though, so that's probably the biggest limiting factor.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I love to comparing and contrasting the training in different sports. There are many things that one sport does that another sport can learn from. But, different sports train differently for a reason.

XC skiing and XCO racing have very different competitions. Generally XC skiing races tend to be short, a lot closer to short track duration. Yes, there is a 50km (or 30km for women) but that is typically raced once or twice a year for World Cup racers. XC ski racers also have a much higher race density, they pack a lot of racing into a short period of time. Their training reflects the demands of their racing.

XC skiing is also different in that only time you can really ski is during the competition period, this mean that nearly all the preparation is done on dry land. I think this is what forces the different modality. Elite cyclist who train in a proper winter environment do the same thing.

Strength periodization has been standard practice in just about all elite level athletes for quite a while now.



xcskier66 said:


> I was thinking of some of the bigger differences between XC skiing and MTB training.
> 
> 1. XC skiers tend to treat long days as hard days. A long 3+ hour aerobic workout can be as taxing as an interval day. Hard days hard and then easy days easy.
> 2. XC skiers tend to do two workouts a day on "easy days". When you are training 25+ hours a week and you need 4+ hours a day, it's easier on the body to break it up into two sessions. As a amateur hack, I like to do two a days sometimes. It can fit better into my schedule than a 2 hour ride or ski (especially if you have to drive to trails).
> ...


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I have an xc skiing question - wondering if anyone here has an answer since I'm not on any xc skiing forums. 

I have skate gear and classic gear - both are NNN. The instant I step on snow with my skate boots, the boot is so firmly packed with snow near the "pin" that I need to take something like a car key to unpack it so I can actually click in. Is there any way to stop this from happening. My classic boots get packed with snow at times, but it's far less frequent and stomping it does the trick most of the time.

If anyone's had this issue and has a trick to prevent it, I'd love to hear it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

scottg said:


> I have an xc skiing question - wondering if anyone here has an answer since I'm not on any xc skiing forums.
> 
> I have skate gear and classic gear - both are NNN. The instant I step on snow with my skate boots, the boot is so firmly packed with snow near the "pin" that I need to take something like a car key to unpack it so I can actually click in. Is there any way to stop this from happening. My classic boots get packed with snow at times, but it's far less frequent and stomping it does the trick most of the time.
> 
> If anyone's had this issue and has a trick to prevent it, I'd love to hear it.


The problem is the warm boots, the snow sticks to it. But cold boots sucks.

Two strategies.
1. Use your pole to clean out the boots.
2. Put the tip of your ski in the pin to push the snow out. I find this works really well but you better be sure handed. You can break the tip off your ski if you do it wrong.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

LMN said:


> The problem is the warm boots, the snow sticks to it. But cold boots sucks.
> 
> Two strategies.
> 1. Use your pole to clean out the boots.
> 2. Put the tip of your ski in the pin to push the snow out. I find this works really well but you better be sure handed. You can break the tip off your ski if you do it wrong.


It's not just the warm boots, as it doesn't happen the same way for my other NNN boots, and it still happens even if I've been outdoors for quite some time. I'm more wondering if there's a tweak that can be made to prevent it.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Do you guys recommend doing my intensity workout on XC skiing aswell? I'm so addicted to XC Skiing this winter, as we have so nice weather conditions this winter, and to be honest i don't even want to look at Wahoo indoor trainer i have lying in my house  Or can i keep my current regimen through the march/april when the snow is melted and i can ride outdoors again? My MTB racing season starts at end of april and right now my Skiing is 2-3h Z2 rides and some trys at strava KOM's


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Do you guys recommend doing my intensity workout on XC skiing aswell? I'm so addicted to XC Skiing this winter, as we have so nice weather conditions this winter, and to be honest i don't even want to look at Wahoo indoor trainer i have lying in my house  Or can i keep my current regimen through the march/april when the snow is melted and i can ride outdoors again? My MTB racing season starts at end of april and right now my Skiing is 2-3h Z2 rides and some trys at strava KOM's


Unless you are racing professionally you should be doing what is fun. If you are are into pinning it on XC skis then go for it.

My only cation for you is to spend one or two days a week on the trainer. You are going to enter bike season super fit and have the strength and aerobic capacity to go really hard but you are not going to have connective tissues and will be vulnerable to knee injuries. The first year I XC skied I did no riding and got a knee injury from doing too much too soon.


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## JeT442 (Mar 4, 2019)

LMN said:


> I think cyclist who XC ski in the winter have a huge advantage over those who ride year round. The freshness and excitement of switching disciplines should not be underestimated.


As someone who "switches" to skate skiing in the winter and back to MTB in the spring I agree with the benefit of looking forward to discipline change. I feel like it's a great workout so I stay fit without getting burned out on one activity, year round.
I do supplement XC skiing with a few trainer rides and weights, too. Gotta keep it fresh!


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