# How Many of you Wear a Full face Helmet



## stunzeed (Mar 17, 2007)

Wondering how many of you wear FF's? If so what are your trails like


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

stunzeed said:


> Wondering how many of you wear FF's? If so what are your trails like


Only when: at the lifts, or on more shuttle/DH type trails.

Or in winter sometimes. It's way warmer than my XC lid with stuff underneath.


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## dogo (Sep 14, 2008)

Ya I was actually thinking of picking one up just for winter rides.. Chainlove just had a real lightweight Six full face for 50.00 bucks.


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## stunzeed (Mar 17, 2007)

What about goggles also, do sunglasses work with FF Helmets?


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I alternate between an XC lid and FF helmet, Really I should use a FF 100% of the time considering what a helemt protects - your head / face. I have seen some nasty spills on the mellowest XC trails and a FF would have cut down on the dental bills. Don't know about most but I don't plan on crashing nor can I predict the type of fall - I can't say "Ok I am going to ride XC today so no face plants, OTB experiences etc. If you don't gamble and want your face intact after a ride go FF, if you gamble and can deal w/ possible injuries stay on an XC lid.


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## archer (May 20, 2004)

Sunglasses work but like goggles you have to put them on after the helmet and take them off before you remove it.


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## theGreenEGg (Mar 1, 2010)

I don't have a FF helmet yet but will be getting one...my riding group has started getting into more technical riding and more jumping, drops, etc....and I had a bad OTB experience about a month ago and broke my collarbone and wasn't wearing a FF helmet but luckily had no face damage...the XC helmet still protected my head but having a FF would have been nice...


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

I have both a FF and an XC lid.
A Giro Hex and a Remedy CF.

I use the FF for LiftAssist, JumpTrails, or anything with a high price for failure. I use the FF as well for just about all riding in the Spring and Fall and bring the XC lid out for the summer heat when just riding regular XC.

As for sunglasses with a FF - no problem, just as noted above, remember to remove before putting helmet on or taking off... I use my Oakley FlakJackets quite often with the FF.

michael


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I have a FF, arm/leg armour. As soon as I grow a set I'll start riding on some of the FR trails around here and get some use out of the gear.


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## Colddiver98 (Jul 20, 2009)

Full Face on anything more gnarly than a "green" coded FR trail. I tend to run glasses rather than goggles, but depends on weather. Glasses when really frickin hot and also when raining. Goggles all other time or if really dusty.
There are some pretty trick well vented FF helmets that have come out recently, but I still like the Flux/Xen styles for anything like a technical XC or light FR trail.


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## dopaminer (Mar 21, 2009)

Rode a standard XC lid for years n years until I saw this pic and vid. In the vid the guy just sits up kinda stunned but obviously okay. I just received a 661 carbon evolution - fits great and all, but worried about the heat issue....


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## dth656 (Feb 12, 2009)

i always wear my ff helmet (specialized deviant carbon)--i ride mostly XC, w/ nothing more than a 1' or 2' drop to flat. my friends make fun out of me, but sometimes you can wipe out pretty hard even on an easy trail, and it has come in handy. i did a faceplant into a rock a couple of months ago, and instead of losing any teeth, i just lost some paint from my helmet. well worth it IMO.


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## KAHAIKAPU (Sep 28, 2008)

dth656 said:


> i always wear my ff helmet (specialized deviant carbon)--i ride mostly XC, w/ nothing more than a 1' or 2' drop to flat. my friends make fun out of me, but sometimes you can wipe out pretty hard even on an easy trail, and it has come in handy. i did a faceplant into a rock a couple of months ago, and instead of losing any teeth, i just lost some paint from my helmet. well worth it IMO.


x 2


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## BikeFettish (Apr 21, 2010)

I agree with the FF helmet on the descend but if you are generally on a XC trail how hot does it get when your climbing? Or do most of you keep the FF helmet off when you climb?


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## xnofriendsx (Jun 21, 2005)

dth656 said:


> i always wear my ff helmet (specialized deviant carbon)--i ride mostly XC, w/ nothing more than a 1' or 2' drop to flat. my friends make fun out of me, but sometimes you can wipe out pretty hard even on an easy trail, and it has come in handy. i did a faceplant into a rock a couple of months ago, and instead of losing any teeth, i just lost some paint from my helmet. well worth it IMO.


x3

If anyone rode motocross and mtb, they would wear a FF most of the time for mtb use. I go just as fast sometimes on my mtb as i do on the mx bike and look at all the armor and protection you wear on a mx bike. 
All it takes is one fall.
Get the Specialized Deviant with like 21 vents of something. Plenty of protection and if it gets too hot on the ascent, then just strap it to your backpack.


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## Turtle01 (Sep 20, 2005)

Starting as of last fall, I've been using a FF on all trails. A standard half shell protects the strongest bones in your skull and leaves the weakest available for the breaking (along with breathing and brain damage). A FF takes care of that issue. I've just purchase a pair of goggles as well to use. 

I also wear elbow/knee and shin guards. Imagine crossing up your tibia (shin bone) to a 4" diameter tree on a 15-20mph get off. 

Mainly I ride XC trails with some technical on them in forested areas.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

dth656 said:


> i always wear my ff helmet (specialized deviant carbon)--i ride mostly XC, w/ nothing more than a 1' or 2' drop to flat. my friends make fun out of me, but sometimes you can wipe out pretty hard even on an easy trail, and it has come in handy. i did a faceplant into a rock a couple of months ago, and instead of losing any teeth, i just lost some paint from my helmet. well worth it IMO.


I wear no helmet on the LONG climbs and then strap on the fullface for the DH or AM riding. I like my teeth and Ive seen some nasty XC crashes that resulted in broken teeth and black eyes.


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## xnofriendsx (Jun 21, 2005)

BikeFettish said:


> I agree with the FF helmet on the descend but if you are generally on a XC trail how hot does it get when your climbing? Or do most of you keep the FF helmet off when you climb?


I have the Specialized Deviant which you can definitely climb with cause it is so vented, but for some of the DH helmets or a MX helmet, you would need to take it off cause you cant breath in them. It also depends on how heavy it is and how hot it is outside.
But also depends on what you are riding. Some rides aren't all climbing then all descent. 
That is why i bought my helmet, so i can climb with it if i need to.
But it doesnt take long to strap it to the backpack if necessary as well.


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## Turtle01 (Sep 20, 2005)

I wish people would think more about the "I can't breath in a full face helmet" routine. It's in the mind. There is no way that you will have oxygen depletion from a MX style full face helmet. It is open on top and bottom and vented in the front. By gas diffusion and the amount of oxygen left in exhaled air it is almost impossible to run out of oxygen with the given scenerio. It has more to do with hearing your breathing and the concept of not being able to breath. I ride with a Bell Drop (BMX/DH FF helmet) and have no problems at all on long climbs when large amounts of oxygen are needed.


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## xnofriendsx (Jun 21, 2005)

Turtle01 said:


> I wish people would think more about the "I can't breath in a full face helmet" routine. It's in the mind. There is no way that you will have oxygen depletion from a MX style full face helmet. It is open on top and bottom and vented in the front. By gas diffusion and the amount of oxygen left in exhaled air it is almost impossible to run out of oxygen with the given scenerio. It has more to do with hearing your breathing and the concept of not being able to breath. I ride with a Bell Drop (BMX/DH FF helmet) and have no problems at all on long climbs when large amounts of oxygen are needed.


I was talking about an actual MX full face for breathing not just the MX style helmet. If you have used a MX helmet for MTB use then you will know what i am talking about. Way heavier, way more dense padding, etc. They are made for higher speeds and have less venting in front. It is night and day difference from any MTB full face helmet. Or at least all the various MX FF helmets that i have. It is still safer, but way harder to breathe in. But don't get me wrong, i still think people should use a FF no matter what the riding is. It just makes sense. Unless you don't like your teeth and want full dentures.... hehe.


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## jbt11string (Apr 7, 2008)

I usually wear just an XC/AM type helmet. Most riding i do requires riding to the top, which flippin sucks, wearing a FF or strapping it to my pack. I wouldn't call myself a all out DH'er but there are times when I enter races on my SXC, and i do have a FF for that and the occasional day when i ride a more "FF friendly" trail. I really should wear one all the time. The trails i pedal to are really know different than courses i race. Definitely good to have one though.


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## archer (May 20, 2004)

There is no problem breathing in the Deviant.
It does feel warmer than a standard lid and is heavier by a factor of 2 or 3.

It will tire you more than a standard helmet and may feel like you are closed in a bit.
It is harder to snack on the ride and while your waterbag will work with it bottles are a PITA.

If you are climbing you can strap it to your pack but then you aren't wearing any lid if it gets unexpectedly knarly and you have to take the time to put it back on before you get started on the decent. It also is a distraction hanging off your pack, especially if it moves around any or gets off center.

I've worn it on some XC trails and it isn't too bad but the standard helm is easier and more comfortable. I'm thinking wearing the FF more often will make it less noticable.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

I keep debating it, and it's not too hard to imagine a crash on even XC trails that results in a lot of dental reconstruction.

But the sticking point for me isn't the warmth or the weight- it's that our local trails have a lot of hikers on them too. So far we don't have much in the way of user conflicts, and we're lucky in that our local land conservation group has quite a few avid MTBers. I make a point of making eye contact with hikers, smiling, and thanking them if they've stepped aside before I get a chance to yield. You loose that with a FF and goggles. I really don't want to stormtrooper up, at least on the trails in our back yard.

I still haven't ruled it out for some of our less-traveled, gnarlier trails, though.


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## Turtle01 (Sep 20, 2005)

xnofriendsx,
I understand the MX helmet differences and only agree with you on heat buildup and weight. The area you breathe from is no different. There is still plenty of oxygen making its way through top and bottom from the chin guard that the vent in the front is very minor, but still helpful to a small degree. It is in no way an enclosed area for gases since it only has a halo of containment. Gas diffusion with only a minor breeze is crazy fast. I'm imagining that the weight and heat of your MX helmets may influence how you "feel" your breathing capabilities are. Many people think it's difficult to breath in a full face at all, but it's merely a mental aspect such as being in a small room and feeling the walls are getting closer. Not trying to be rude at all, just trying to shine some light on a situation that's not really a problem that people think it is.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Just adding my small bit to this thread that is repeated every friking week.

On the subject does anyone know of any well ventilated ff helmets?! ;-)


You never know what you are going to crash on or why. Most riders in this forum know what they are doing, so it's normally bad luck that causes the fall.

Due to this I wear as much armour as I can bear due to the heat. In the winter I commute wearing hip armour and a full face helmet. On the trail add knees and elbows.

Seems a bit over the top but let me quickly run down my friends top injuries.

top injury: not sure what happened, wife descending 5-10 deg smooth grass probably less than 10mph. I turned around at the start of the hard section to see where she was. After a small amount of waiting and a panicked sprint up the hill to see where she was. fully unconcious, helmet crushed, convulsing. We are talking total KO, I have seen a LOT of KOs, been the reciever of most, this was the worst.
Air ambulanced off the hill.
she is an expert rider and can drop technical rocks better than quite a few guys.

Second worst injury (this was not as serious as the above, so it might give you an idea how bad that head injury was). Friend going too fast over some easy rocks, slips and impales himself on a spike. It enters through the front of the pelvis shattering it, punches out his back and then tears out of the side.
Intermediate rider, air ambulanced off the hill.

Third worst,
Friend on easy single track, skids out front wheel and lands with face on a rock removing a lot of it.
Super expert rider, on a blue route.

So three very experienced riders on terrain that is easy for their skill level with critical injuries.

Two morals to this story:

1) You never know what is going to make you crash, so wear protection at all times.

2) If you have a friend who stops breathing, or is bleeding to death, make sure you know what to do. seriously guys, basic first aid course and a basic first aid kit is all you need.


People mock me for commuting with a DH helmet and hip armour. Few months back lost front wheel, head-butted the ground and have enough momentum to carry me into a car 10m from the point I went down (I was going fast alright). 
Total injuries, nil, main though running through my mind as rolling down the tarmac "WWWeeeeeeeeee".

I hit a car at 30mph and enjoyed it.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

For a short answer, I wear a full face on everything unless it will make me over heat, then I wear a good quality XC.


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## archer (May 20, 2004)

evasive said:


> I keep debating it, and it's not too hard to imagine a crash on even XC trails that results in a lot of dental reconstruction.
> 
> But the sticking point for me isn't the warmth or the weight- it's that our local trails have a lot of hikers on them too. So far we don't have much in the way of user conflicts, and we're lucky in that our local land conservation group has quite a few avid MTBers. I make a point of making eye contact with hikers, smiling, and thanking them if they've stepped aside before I get a chance to yield. You loose that with a FF and goggles. I really don't want to stormtrooper up, at least on the trails in our back yard.
> 
> I still haven't ruled it out for some of our less-traveled, gnarlier trails, though.


I've met folks several times riding with a full face.
I always say 'Hi' or wave as I pass or say 'Thanks' if they've stepped off the trail.

You may be more intimidating to them wearing FF (and armor) but you can still talk to them. My current goggles are clear and probably easier to make eye contact with than my mirrored grey sunglasses.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> Just adding my small bit to this thread that is repeated every friking week.
> 
> On the subject does anyone know of any well ventilated ff helmets?! ;-)
> 
> ...


yes yes yes. usually the worst wrecks i have are on easy singletrack that ive ridden more than enough. once you get conforatable then something really bad happens. i dont always wear my FF on the local xc trails because some of the hikers already dont want to share and they are by FAR the majority so i try not to give them reasons to kick us off for good. on those trails usually never get to go all out unless im night riding. then i wear all my gear, FF arms legs, maybe flakjaket.


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## atchipmunk (Aug 7, 2009)

I wear a FF on EVERY ride...even the lighter XC type trails and even when climbing. For me, it's worth the added heat for the added protection of a FF. I also wear knee/shins and elbow guards as well. You just never know. 
Also, at my age (almost 37) you don't recover from injuries as quickly so I need to keep those to a minimum. I may look like an idiot out there to some, but I honestly don't give a s**t. It's my face, not theirs... 

For my FF, I'm running a Giro Remedy which I love, but I recently picked up a 2010 Specialized Deviant 2 for the added ventilation. Should be a bit cooler than my Remedy for the hot summer rides...:thumbsup:


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## dopaminer (Mar 21, 2009)

Excellent thread. Just two days ago I received a big box in the post with knee/elbow pads, hip/tailbone padded under-shorts, ff helmet. I put the whole rig on and took a look in the mirrow, and thought, `Really?` I couldn`t imagine actually wearing this stuff in public, for purely lame self-consciousness reasons.... That bit of conceited neurosis is now completely gone, thanks to all the input here; I`m ff-ing it all the time now; limb-armor as well. . .


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## fluxor (Feb 23, 2008)

CaveGiant said:


> Just adding my small bit to this thread that is repeated every friking week.
> 
> On the subject does anyone know of any well ventilated ff helmets?! ;-)
> 
> ...


I like this post, especially the "WWWeeeeeee"


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## chris68 (Sep 21, 2007)

I recently picked up a Giro Remedy and I've been wearing it on every type of ride. I makes me feel much more confident. I'll have to see how it goes on summer days. eeekk!


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## GrantR (Apr 16, 2008)

I try and war my FF whenever I'm going to ride an extra technical trail on my DH bike. It is way too much of a pain to bring around for most trails, and I really don't like climbing with it even though I keep it on my back.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

atchipmunk said:


> I wear a FF on EVERY ride...even the lighter XC type trails and even when climbing. For me, it's worth the added heat for the added protection of a FF. I also wear knee/shins and elbow guards as well. You just never know.
> Also, at my age (almost 37) you don't recover from injuries as quickly so I need to keep those to a minimum. I may look like an idiot out there to some, but I honestly don't give a s**t. It's my face, not theirs...
> 
> For my FF, I'm running a Giro Remedy which I love, but I recently picked up a 2010 Specialized Deviant 2 for the added ventilation. Should be a bit cooler than my Remedy for the hot summer rides...:thumbsup:


I like this guy. :thumbsup:


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## Bobb (Oct 28, 2005)

Full face helmets as well as arm and leg armor are considered normal wear on the trails around here.


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## Jet Fuel (Jan 17, 2004)

dopaminer said:


> Excellent thread. Just two days ago I received a big box in the post with knee/elbow pads, hip/tailbone padded under-shorts, ff helmet. I put the whole rig on and took a look in the mirrow, and thought, `Really?` I couldn`t imagine actually wearing this stuff in public, for purely lame self-consciousness reasons.... That bit of conceited neurosis is now completely gone, thanks to all the input here; I`m ff-ing it all the time now; limb-armor as well. . .


The more you wear your protective gear on the trails, the more comfortable you will be with it. When you have a crash, then you know it is worth it. Then it gets to the point where you feel uncomfortable if you don't wear it.


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## webby (Dec 11, 2009)

i live in London, Ontario and see alot of people wearing full face helmets with downhill bikes its so funny...they just want to look cool lol...if your climbing hills you would be sweatin buckets not to mention they weigh a tonne compared to xc helmets...i have the new fox AM helmet its like a full face helmet without the face protection


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## SteveUK (Apr 16, 2006)

> Most riders in this forum know what they are doing, so it's normally bad luck that causes the fall.


Bad luck? Crikey, next you'll be blaming the fairies!! Crashes are caused because you did something wrong. You failed to balance; you failed to land correctly; you failed because were thinking about cake instead of spotting your landing; you failed because your skills weren't up to the obstacle; YOU failed because YOU get it WRONG. How'd anyone ever learn from blaming "bad luck" for their shortcomings? I'm not saying that there's no element of unfortunate coincidences, but most accidents are caused by user error.


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

webby said:


> i live in London, Ontario and see alot of people wearing full face helmets with downhill bikes its so funny...they just want to look cool lol...if your climbing hills you would be sweatin buckets not to mention they weigh a tonne compared to xc helmets...i have the new fox AM helmet its like a full face helmet without the face protection


 SO they won't have dental bills and look cool,...you won't look cool and have dental bills.


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## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

i will never wear one there just to hot.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

insanitylevel9 said:


> i will never wear one there just to hot.


Unfortunately that is a factor for me. I overheat easily, and I can bonk really bad when I do, so I usually have to accept the risk of riding without FF, and taking off helmet on fireroad climbs - carry a white skull cap in a pocket... Damn California sun.

Need to pony up for the Leatt brace as well..


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## miko 55 (Apr 21, 2010)

full face saved my head today


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## PNW Freeride (May 12, 2009)

Only on trails that are really fast DH.
I am usually accused of not wearing it enough though.
I guess ill have to smash my face really hard before I get the point.
But for park riding deffinatly.
XC/AM/Light DH/FR not so much.


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## SwampDonkeyDisco (Mar 3, 2010)

This is my full face helmet.


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## archer (May 20, 2004)

Curmy said:


> Unfortunately that is a factor for me. I overheat easily, and I can bonk really bad when I do, so I usually have to accept the risk of riding without FF, and taking off helmet on fireroad climbs - carry a white skull cap in a pocket... Damn California sun.
> 
> Need to pony up for the Leatt brace as well..


Bandana under the helmet.
Soak it with water before you start.
Soak it again when you get to the point it has dried out or you need to cool down again.

I rode with mine on the local XC trails yesterday.
It is warmer.
It is harder to get your earbuds in place for your MP3 player if you use one.
Bone conduction is a bit more than on a standard lid so when the wind blows you hear it more.
It isn't really harder to see the trail or in front of you but it is harder to see yourself or what's right under your front wheel without looking down at it.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

haha keeps you from keeping your eye on your front tire unless you want to drop your whole head to take a peak, which should be unnessisary


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## dopaminer (Mar 21, 2009)

archer said:


> Bandana under the helmet.
> Soak it with water before you start.
> Soak it again when you get to the point it has dried out or you need to cool down again.


Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

I take it it`s dry in California? 
Man, in Japan, in spring/summer, even sitting in your underwear, in front of a fan, not moving one muscle, you`re pouring sweat. Riding up a mountain is like being a human fountain - sweat is constantly pouring down on the top tube.....

A wet bandana...hahahahaha `when it`s dried out`...hahahahahaha


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

dopaminer said:


> I take it it`s dry in California?


Yep. Fortunately. That's why I can still ride in the summer.


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## macdaddyg2006 (Jun 8, 2006)

*Yikes ... was your wife wearing a FF?*

just curious - -- thanks. Hope she is OK now.



fluxor said:


> I like this post, especially the "WWWeeeeeee"


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## wilonpill (Aug 19, 2009)

I've noticed that I feel uncomfortable not wearing a Camelback. It is so nice to have a full bladder when you endo onto your back.


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## starry (Jun 9, 2009)

I sport a full face for when i'm at lift access mountains. local trails i use regular XC lid. I actually bought a full face like 6 years ago for use even at my local trails, when I went endo and ended up with two black eyes after falling on my face. But, i find them so damn hot i just wear it on bigger mountains (plus i'm really not that aggresive at this point)


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Okay a couple things.

1. If you are such a spaz that you feel the need to wear a full face even on standard XC trails please stay home and keep the trails safe for the rest of us. 

2. If you must get out and wear your full face, don't project your fears and inadequacies on people who do just fine with a standard helmet. It's people like you who'll have the whole world forced to wear full body armor just to leave the house because "you never know". 
Also, your whole phucking existence is a "you never know". Wallowing in fear is no way to go through life, manage risk but don't paralyze yourself with fear.


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## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

I wear a FF on all my rides now. Got myself knocked out March 09 wearing a regular bike helmet and decided to go FF full time. I feel a bit more confident wearing it too.


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## c_rex (Aug 19, 2009)

Rivet said:


> Okay a couple things.
> 
> 1. If you are such a spaz that you feel the need to wear a full face even on standard XC trails please stay home and keep the trails safe for the rest of us.
> 
> ...


You don't proselytize from your pretend ivory tower much do you? Darwin called, he's got a spot on his new game show for you. wutevah.

anyway- I've never worn a full face helmet in all my years of riding until recently. On a whim I ordered a MET Parachute from CRC. While I wouldn't consider it as a downhill bucket I see absolutely no reason not to wear it for XC or Marathon rides as it is as light as. Light enough that my 7 year old daughter can wear it and not be distracted by it's girth. Very comfy lid with loads of breathing to it. I'm pretty enough that my grill is worth saving. Especially since my parents paid all that money 30+ years ago to make my teeth straight.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Rivet did you know the correlation with wearing armour tips in the favour of more skilled riders?

So the more skill a rider a rider is, the more likely he is to wear armour.
Ever met Sam hill, he must suck right?

I would have had a fatal fall if not for my helmet a few years back.

Just because you ride too slowly to appreciate the need for protection, does not mean people with more skill don't.

p.s. I have enough travel to soak up faires, they don't slow me down any more.


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## dopaminer (Mar 21, 2009)

Dear Dr. Rivet,

As you have managed to include the most argumentative fallacies in the fewest number of sentences, your latest post will be included in this month`s `Illogic Illustrated` journal. 

Congratulations.


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## Prostreet513 (Jul 4, 2009)

In bmx and dirt bikes I always wear a full face. I haven't purchased a full face for my mtb. I dont know of anyone around here who wears them honestly. I really like to go fast and I cant help but think on the trail what might happen if I face plant into a tree. I think I am going to order one soon and I honestly think it will probably increase my confidence in going faster


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> Rivet did you know the correlation with wearing armour tips in the favour of more skilled riders?
> 
> So the more skill a rider a rider is, the more likely he is to wear armour.
> Ever met Sam hill, he must suck right?
> ...


Man are you full of ****. I wear a proper full face helmet when racing DH or Shuttling trully "heavy" trails. That Sam Hill analogy is stupid. I can guarantee most pro downhillers don't wear full faces when they are just out riding, I know this because I have ridden with quite a few. You'd be surprised how fit many of them are, they are Cat1 XC level fit and spend quite a bit of time on the road too. I suppose since the road is dangerous all roadies should wear full faces also? Tool.


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## futurerocker1 (Sep 16, 2009)

was just wondering if anyone has tried using a four wheeling/MX helmet for biking.. I know it is obviously heavier and less breathable, but is it so much to the point that would make it not worth it? I am looking into getting a full face helmet soon but want to hold off til I find something I really like at a good price


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## archer (May 20, 2004)

dopaminer said:


> Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.....
> 
> I take it it`s dry in California?
> Man, in Japan, in spring/summer, even sitting in your underwear, in front of a fan, not moving one muscle, you`re pouring sweat. Riding up a mountain is like being a human fountain - sweat is constantly pouring down on the top tube.....
> ...


Much of SoCal is a desert. 
http://www.desertusa.com/du_mojave.html
http://www.desertusa.com/du_basin.html
http://www.desertusa.com/du_sonoran.html
Even a lot of the parts that aren't can be pretty darned dry. If you check google earth you will find a whole lot of tan terrain.

Curmy did say:


> Damn California sun.


Back in the Southeast U.S. it is more humid like you are probably used to.

At least the parts I've seen Austin Texas to Memphis Tennessee out to North Georgia, Raleigh NC and then down to parts of South GA, Florida and Alabama it has a tendency to rain a couple hours a day for weeks at a time and sometimes rains for a couple days at a time. Temps in excess of 100 F with 80-100% humidity are common. When I was last back there, quite a few group rides were springing up just after dark with lights to avoid some of the heat. The 'skeeters were another problem as was poison ivy/oak.


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## jetta_mike (Feb 26, 2007)

I agree with Rivet, full faces and XC just doesn't mix. 

I truely hate how much a full face blocks my vision, so much so that I wear a half shell when Park riding or DH'ing on the local trails. 

As far as armour, the faster I got and subsequently the better I got the less armour I wear. These days its pretty much just gloves and helmet.


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## theGreenEGg (Mar 1, 2010)

futurerocker1 said:


> was just wondering if anyone has tried using a four wheeling/MX helmet for biking.. I know it is obviously heavier and less breathable, but is it so much to the point that would make it not worth it? I am looking into getting a full face helmet soon but want to hold off til I find something I really like at a good price


Don't use a four wheeling/MX helmet. They are way too hot and they are heavier. They are also bulkier. I did it one time and it was not worth it....I guess it would have been worth it if I would have crashed....I would get one that is mountain bike specific..


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Rivet said:


> Okay a couple things.
> 
> 1. If you are such a spaz that you feel the need to wear a full face even on standard XC trails please stay home and keep the trails safe for the rest of us.
> 
> ...


Same logic can be easily applied to wearing a helmet altogether in certain situations - for example when riding a bike path in your town. But just try to suggest that and observe the angry mtbr mob: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=595984

I pick up protective equipment based on the level of perceived risk - you can not eliminate all risk anyway. But I guess everybody has their own level. As far as the full face, I consider heat stroke danger and limited visibility to be a sufficient drawback to accpet the somewhat higher risk of facial injury. My face is not that pretty to save anyway.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

theGreenEGg said:


> Don't use a four wheeling/MX helmet. They are way too hot and they are heavier. They are also bulkier. I did it one time and it was not worth it....I guess it would have been worth it if I would have crashed....I would get one that is mountain bike specific..


Those DOT helmets are for bouncing your head on pavement while being run over your head by an 18-wheeler. An unlikely occurrence on MTB trails..


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## BMJ (Sep 16, 2005)

My FF helmet bares the mouth gaurd scars of use. Problem is, I don't know if it was the heat stroke I was experiencing at the time that threw my face into the ground in the first place. 

I baked my brain with a FF on all my rides for the past 10 years. This past season I started riding open faced and WOW what a breath of fresh air! I feel much sharper than I ever did with the FF. I am leary of face planting without my old faithfull but I wonder which comes first, the chicken or the egg.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

BMJ said:


> My FF helmet bares the mouth gaurd scars of use. Problem is, I don't know if it was the heat stroke I was experiencing at the time that threw my face into the ground in the first place.
> .


People die from heat strokes. It is not a frigging joke, unfortunately. Seen some bad cases on adventure races - not a pretty thing.


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## DJD. (Oct 10, 2009)

Curmy did say:

Back in the Southeast U.S. it is more humid like you are probably used to.

At least the parts I've seen Austin Texas to Memphis Tennessee out to North Georgia, Raleigh NC and then down to parts of South GA, Florida and Alabama it has a tendency to rain a couple hours a day for weeks at a time and sometimes rains for a couple days at a time. Temps in excess of 100 F with 80-100% humidity are common. When I was last back there, quite a few group rides were springing up just after dark with lights to avoid some of the heat. The 'skeeters were another problem as was poison ivy/oak.[/QUOTE]

It's actually not that bad if you're used to it. I live near raleigh nc and it doesnt really rain that much. On average a few days per week at max, except maybe one or two times per month, when it rains more.

About the ff vs. norm. I always wear ff on the trails. the heat is not really an issue if you bring some water, and it feels safer and also makes the wind louder, which can be an advantage or disadvantage, depending on your point of view.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

How many car load full of girls have followed you around town and asked for your name and number? Mmhmm. Gear is cool. Some little girl with her mom and friends commented I was wearing motorcycle gear on a bike. Hate to tell you, but even streetbikers aren't as well protected as I am. What they have is a JOKE. Some steel shoulder armor, foam back padding or none at all, cheap elbow guards, and all this in a $3,500 suit? hah!

FF and ANYTHING don't mix you could say, not just XC? So street bikers should wear a XC helmet tooling around a parking lot or school zone, then put on their FF for the highway? I'd smack you, but sht splatters. Doesn't matter though, my FF would block it.

I have 2 FFs. One with vents and one carbon fiber(ski) without. Same design from Giro. I don't notice being much cooler in the vented one unless there's a breeze hitting the side vents. If you complain about heat stroke, then maybe you need more exercise. It's funny to see these old people on bikes, who could at any time have a heart attack. And they wouldn't die from the heart, they'd die from hitting their head when they fall.

I had an accident with my FF on pavement at a relatively slow impact speed, and thought I hit my jaw, but no scratches. But there was a chip in the back of the helmet, and I didn't feel a thing due to the extra padding which is absent from XC.

As for goggles, I have no problem getting my helmet on over them. I hate the look of that rubber band stretching around the back. Plus doing it my way it keeps the edges even more snug to the face to keep debris out.

For the commenter about hip pads, I have invested in quite a few shorts recently with armor to compare. One is Dainese impacts with plastic plating. A friend fell on his hip and damaged a bone. That's one area armor is lacking.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

My friend just did an fp. We are thinking about going ff.


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## kris_benson (Jul 4, 2010)

I was fortunate enough to miss a serious FP on a boulder one day at the end of a rock ladder, luckily i turned my head to take the impact with the top portion of my open face, on inspection there were cracks throughout - I wouldnt like to think about the consequences of landing with my mug on mentioned rock, or not having that split second to turn my face away. Did have a sore neck, but was saved well and truly!

Still ride with a Hex open face for XC, or a Bern in the winter. When it comes to DH or messing about then I pop on my THE FF. Love wearing my goggles with all of the above, coz streaming eyes on fast descents just ain fun!

But surely the whole OF, FF is purely personal preference - feel safe in a FF on the road? great! OF on DH feel safe? great! thats what its all about!

Have fun.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

bcdale said:


> How many car load full of girls have followed you around town and asked for your name and number? Mmhmm. Gear is cool. Some little girl with her mom and friends commented I was wearing motorcycle gear on a bike. Hate to tell you, but even streetbikers aren't as well protected as I am. What they have is a JOKE. Some steel shoulder armor, foam back padding or none at all, cheap elbow guards, and all this in a $3,500 suit? hah!
> 
> FF and ANYTHING don't mix you could say, not just XC? So street bikers should wear a XC helmet tooling around a parking lot or school zone, then put on their FF for the highway? I'd smack you, but sht splatters. Doesn't matter though, my FF would block it.
> 
> ...


bcdale-

Could you give a little advice here since it sounds like you've picked up some real experience with both ffs and body armor. I want to pull the trigger on the right high-quality gear and know it'll cost me.

Scenario: I ride moderate pace on a lot of rocky, rooty (definitely more-extreme side of but probably still AM) wooded singletrack with some good downhills and a decent number of 1-2 foot drops with a FS (160mm fork) ride.

My face has had a couple of gnar near-misses on a tree and a couple microwave-sized rocks with an open lid and I really want to go to a ff (I don't care about the extra weight/heat) that will take any hit. I REALLY need my teeth and face intact for my particular job. 

The other thing's that I've been taking a beating on the forearms just above the elbows but nothing whatsoever involving hips, shins, knees, core.

Any recommendations on a good ff and body armor here for my situation? JUST as important who do you get your gear through whose absolutely reliable and doesn't screw you over on stupid stuff in ordering? Again, quality, not cost, is my bigger concern. Thanks! :thumbsup:


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

We are heading to the shed after work to bang some vert and a shuttle. Gonna wear all the pro I got, just not on the short up hill. I might even wear a comdom just cause you never know when some hot bike momma might have to jump my bones.


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## SamL3227 (May 30, 2004)

daaaaaaaaamn! those new dainiese shorts then? loook much better than any other thing i seen yet.


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## gdpolk (Aug 3, 2007)

For off road cycling I always wear a full face helmet. I have two full face helmets and one standard xc lid. I already have one fake tooth up front and don't need or want any more. 

On super easy rides and when it is absolutely sweltering hot I go for the Met Parachute. I wouldn't suspect it to hold up to a really gnarly crash but for easy going xc riding its better than no face guard. 

When it isn't 90*+ or when I am going on a more technical trail or a trail that I haven't been on before I grab my Specialized Deviant. It offers all the protection that I need and still vents well enough that it isn't miserable.

For a roll around the block, around campus, or road rides a standard XC lid is sufficient.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

bcdale said:


> For the commenter about hip pads, I have invested in quite a few shorts recently with armor to compare. One is Dainese impacts with plastic plating. A friend fell on his hip and damaged a bone. That's one area armor is lacking.


What annoys me is that I can find hip pads only on shorts designed to be worn under some baggies. Lycra shorts are much more comfortable.

Even lightweight Dainese Evo's help me a lot if taking a fall on my side. I do not ever get on my BMX without padded 661s I have. Asphalt hurts.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

SamL3227 said:


> daaaaaaaaamn! those new dainiese shorts then? look much better than any other thing i seen yet.


They might be only sold in certain markets. They're not on the D website, only their "short" impact shorts. I found these on Euro and a Canadian site. Dainese have several versions of those shorter models for different prices even though they're the same damn thing. MTB "labeled" ones - $150. All other labeled ones $100. The ones pictured in my post are $110, and ones without the plastic armor are $90.



Curmy said:


> What annoys me is that I can find hip pads only on shorts designed to be worn under some baggies


There are Aerostich TF3 hip pads with plastic shell and soft foam. They have velcro and some tape I think for placing in pants. But I prefer an all in one option with thigh and kidney which I haven''t found until now.



gdpolk said:


> For a roll around the block, around campus, or road rides a standard XC lid is sufficient.


That's what most people think, until you run into a pedestrian who isn't watching where they're going or you slam into a car door like some bikers do in NY. Pavement is much less forgiving than soil. It's FF for me EVERYWHERE. Once you crash with or without it, you'll never go without it.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

bcdale said:


> . MTB "labeled" ones - $150. All other labeled ones $100.


Both have chamois pad? Would be odd to have one for non MTB.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

Curmy said:


> Both have chamois pad? Would be odd to have one for non MTB.


Looks like it just has a different zipper location and some other parts, but probably not worth 50 bucks more.










"Zip-off shorts in elasticated, tear-resistant mesh (on external part of the legs) and perforated ultra-breathable Lycra®. Hard polypropylene plates on the coccyx and femurs (CE homologation). Soft padding on the sides. Removable ergonomic anti-bacteria Coolmax® seat."


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## rmi (Jan 14, 2010)

Most motorcyclists, including myself, wear "bicycle" shorts (with chamois) on long rides and otherwise for comfort while sitting.

Ryan



Curmy said:


> Both have chamois pad? Would be odd to have one for non MTB.


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## scottybinwv (Jun 29, 2010)

Another testimony, last night as our final run we shuttled and DH'd lawn mower to blue to stupid steep. On one of the flats in between sections that has waist high grass I got off the trail about a foot and my front tire found a 1.5 foot deep hole, instant OTB and did the tuck and roll. Had the FF, core/shoulder pro, forearm pro, knee/shin guards. Only a tad sore this morning, would have been a lot worse without the gear.


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

Curmy said:


> What annoys me is that I can find hip pads only on shorts designed to be worn under some baggies. Lycra shorts are much more comfortable.
> 
> Even lightweight Dainese Evo's help me a lot if taking a fall on my side. I do not ever get on my BMX without padded 661s I have. Asphalt hurts.


http://www.shockdoctor.com/products/shockskin.aspx


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

gravitylover said:


> http://www.shockdoctor.com/products/shockskin.aspx


Those look nice - for BMX and skiing. They are also undergarments it seems - and I have not seen any mentioning of chamois for biking.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

roxnroots said:


> bcdale-
> 
> Could you give a little advice here since it sounds like you've picked up some real experience with both ffs and body armor. I want to pull the trigger on the right high-quality gear and know it'll cost me.


Sorry I missed this, must have confused it with my post since it had the photo. Sometime the forum seems to get posts in the wrong order also.

I've probably spent over $600 on armor, and am probably done (some still needs to arrive to compare brands). Nothing is perfect, but I try to find the stuff with the most protection and no "******" (zippers, gaps- I like pivoting / overlapping armor, hard buckles in odd places).

For FF helmets, the one I use is an older model Giro Mad Max 2. My Mad Max took a hit and protected me with just a chip to the rear/side, so I got the same model but new paint scheme is all. I have the fiberglass and carbon model(ski-no vents). You can still find them online on ebay or usually UK shops. Shouldn't pay more than $125. The weight difference between the 2 is not noticeable. The size seems the same until you put them on and the chin guard becomes invisible on the smaller one. I had been using size M for many years. The fit was ok, but the helmet was a little loose when shaking the head. After putting on the S it was night and day, a much more snug fit, no movement. I'm not sure the measurements for the helmet, but my head is around 56-57cm. Measure the circumference at eyebrow level. It seems the new trend in helmet design is a flatter back instead of the sharper point of the old Mad Max. This is probably a safety issue as it won't shove your head forward if you land on your back and is probably easier to use with a neck brace. Also makes using goggle straps easier, though I wear my straps inside the helmet for an even tighter seal.

For elbow pads, I went with Dainese 3x - aka Elbow V. I chose them due to the back of elbow pivoting guard. You might not land square on flat forearms in an OTB crash, so having that last back elbow protection is keyif your arms are bent. The only concern I have with them is the separation of the forearm shell. Split into 2 pieces like that is a vulnerability to me since it allows flex and could let something sharp in (it'd have to be a miracle stab in just that area though). I'd prefer it to be one solid piece to distribute the impact, but what can you do. Have to make some sacrifices. I think they got this idea right though with their new chest piece. It no longer has the groove down the center and is all one piece like my Knox Warrior. I also prefer the shoulder cup style of the Knox better (this is based on looks alone and not on my hand testing for the Dainese chest armor). That overlapping top shoulder piece on the Dainese looks as though it would get in the way in a side fall and maybe press into the neck.

I've recently gotten some Knox Recon streetbike gloves as well. Initial testing is pretty good. They've got plastic scaphoid protection for when your palm hits pavement (designed to slide instead of dead stop all your weight). Not sure how it would do on dirt though, but hitting the palm on the ground has minimal feeling, so it protects better than just soft padding and I like the boa gauntlet closure around the elbow armor.. The knuckle protection is solid, but I don't see much use for them unless you land pretty awkward as what might happen on a streetbike at insane speeds.

I try to order gear from the closest location in case I need to send it back, and that also insures quick and lower cost shipping sometimes. I search out the best prices and then try to factor all those things in. Sometimes only 1 or a handful of places will have that gear, like the Dainese shorts or Knox armor. Then I search for reviews on that company to see how they treat customers and about returns hassles. I ordered 1 armor piece from a UK streetbike site and thought I would save $100, but haven't heard anything or received my gear, so sometimes you still get burned.


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## Haus Boss (Jun 4, 2010)

I just had a nasty fall at Northstar last weekend, flew head first over the bars. I thought I had seriously lost some teeth the way I impacted the ground- luckily I didn't. I'll be investing in a fullface sometime in the near future. The thought of riding around like a toothless hillbilly isn't that appealing to me, unless I end up moving to West Virginia.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

SamL3227 said:


> yes yes yes. usually the worst wrecks i have are on easy singletrack that ive ridden more than enough. once you get conforatable then something really bad happens.


same principle as car crashes, most happen close to home where you are most comfortable thus not paying as good of attention.

that said i dont wear a ff. i dont ride anything particularly nasty but realize mountain biking is inherently dangerous. there is always the risk of me falling and bashing my brains out but to me that risk is just to slim to warrent a ff.


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## jsmith89 (Sep 19, 2010)

dopaminer said:


> Excellent thread. Just two days ago I received a big box in the post with knee/elbow pads, hip/tailbone padded under-shorts, ff helmet. I put the whole rig on and took a look in the mirrow, and thought, `Really?` I couldn`t imagine actually wearing this stuff in public, for purely lame self-consciousness reasons.... That bit of conceited neurosis is now completely gone, thanks to all the input here; I`m ff-ing it all the time now; limb-armor as well. . .


You can always buy a jersey and throw the upper body armor on under it. Of course itll be hotter but you'll look "cooler". Its what I plan to do, regardless of heat.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

jsmith89 said:


> You can always buy a jersey and throw the upper body armor on under it. Of course itll be hotter but you'll look "cooler". Its what I plan to do, regardless of heat.


Doesn't really work. Even with an XL jersey I still wear the knox armor over it. Other way round makes you look like a football player. This way makes you look like Vader. Exposed Vader armor looks awesome. I don't think he'd look as menacing with a Casper the friendly ghost sheet over his helmet.


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## [email protected] (Feb 3, 2008)

nope, not at all. no real need for one. however, i've seen a few on bikes on the street wearing just such a helmet ,and all I can thing is


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## atchipmunk (Aug 7, 2009)

bcdale said:


> Doesn't really work. Even with an XL jersey I still wear the knox armor over it. Other way round makes you look like a football player. This way makes you look like Vader. Exposed Vader armor looks awesome. I don't think he'd look as menacing with a Casper the friendly ghost sheet over his helmet.


Heh. For "heavier" rides I wear a Race Face Armour Jacket under an XL jersey. It fits fine, isn't too hot, and isn't super bulky looking IMHO. But, it's not heavy duty armor either so it's a bit slimmer than some of the other armor out there. Here's some pics with and without the jersey on top...

































To add...i've gotten to ride a lot this summer with my Deviant 2. IMHO it's a great helmet. Has much better ventilation than my Giro Remedy and keeps my head pretty cool. It also has an improved goggle opening which fits perfectly with my Blur B1's. I don't have any problem with reduction of visibility, etc. Also, the MX style liner feels much better than the old XC style liner, etc. In my book it gets :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## Monk_Knight (Aug 1, 2008)

Full face for shuttles, bike parks, etc.
Normal helmet for trail rides.

Honestly... it sucks to climb in a full-face helmet, and as for taking it off on the climbs... I'd say a lot of my worst falls have been either on climbs or on those little 5 second downhills you get on a lot of climbs. 

Yes I'm sure there are times out there when someone will be riding with a normal helmet and take a fall that they wish they would have had a full-face on for. But there's also a much greater statistical chance of messing up your face walking down a flight of stairs or getting out of your bathtub then while riding your bike. Let alone riding in a car. 

Really, we should all be wearing full body armor and a DOT-certified helmet everywhere we go...


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

I use my FF about 75% of the time, whether riding local trails or doing dh stuff. I was SO grateful to have one on a few weeks ago. I probably would have crushed my skull with my xc helmet I hit so hard, and on a rather easy trail I had been down a billion times. My now beloved D2 saved me. I do sweat a bit more going uphill, but that's no big deal when compared to leaving my wife a widow at age 25. 


BTW, DOT certification is crap. It really is. DOT does not in any way, shape or form certify any type of helmet. They have set forth some horribly loose guidelines on what general road helmets should withstand in the form of a simple penetration test, ability to stay on during impact test, and a drop impact test, and they leave it at that. They don't sign off or look at a single test result. Absolute crap, if you ask me. They've proposed amendments that would include certifications, but nothing has really been enacted. Companies basically do not have to come close to keeping a person safe, but could put a DOT sticker on whatever helmet they made, regardless of safety test results (if any). Having a 'DOT approved' or 'DOT certified' sticker on a helmet is more of a marketing ploy than anything, although it can signify a company's attempt to design protective gear in accordance to the horribly loose guidelines/tests DOT does set forth. For pete's sake, they have more regulations set forth on how big and what color the lettering needs to be on the DOT sticker than actual numerical safety benchmarks. Sorry, but that is a sensitive spot for me, if you couldn't tell.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

charging_rhinos said:


> BTW, DOT certification is crap. It really is. DOT does not in any way, shape or form certify any type of helmet. They have set forth some horribly loose guidelines on what general road helmets should withstand in the form of a simple penetration test, ability to stay on during impact test, and a drop impact test, and they leave it at that. They don't sign off or look at a single test result. Absolute crap, if you ask me.


Well, that standard prevents one from selling a wool cap and calling it a helmet.

Not a fan of helmet laws - but it is nice to have a minimum set of guidelines. Yeah, one needs to trust manufacturer and do some homework beyond that.


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## spainsoccerfreak (Feb 4, 2009)

*I wear a ff in all rides singletrack simple trail*

I wear a ff in all rides singletrack, simple trails, long uphills and whatever comes
I wear fox rampage I am the only one who does in most trail I wore braces expensive dont want to loose my teeth scars on anyones face not too cool and I do ride with a bunch of guys only girl I can ride pretty good
I live in texas even in summer days where its been hot still wear it have had maybe once every 3 month a fall thats worth of ff but hey just one bad one makes it worth it ppl dont like it dont look at me 
Cheers! better safe than sorry for me coming from motocross


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

spainsoccerfreak said:


> I wear a ff in all rides singletrack, simple trails, long uphills and whatever comes
> I wear fox rampage I am the only one who does in most trail I wore braces expensive dont want to loose my teeth scars on anyones face not too cool and I do ride with a bunch of guys only girl I can ride pretty good
> I live in texas even in summer days where its been hot still wear it have had maybe once every 3 month a fall thats worth of ff but hey just one bad one makes it worth it ppl dont like it dont look at me
> Cheers! better safe than sorry for me coming from motocross


Looking at your nickname and the topic of this thread, I have remembered this picture.


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## chauzie (Mar 8, 2010)

Where can I get a Specialized Deviant 2 helmet for the lowest price???


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2010)

I have one but do not wear it as much as I really should..on real technical trails I wear it and in winter also as it keeps me a bit warmer...but some of the crashes I have had of late has got me rethinking maybe I should be wearing it more often than I do


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## grnbkr (Jul 7, 2006)

The closest I have to a full face is my troy lee d2 open face, and wear it when i'm actually going downhilling. 
For dirt jumping i wear a regular xc or road helmet, for trail riding I wear a regular xc or road helmet, for road riding I wear a biretta with glasses.
The only "pads" I own per se are soft 661 knee cups, with most of the crap cut out, pair these with knee warmers you get just enough padding and support, plus you look supa pro. These only come out for downhilling.

Why do I go light on the padding and helmets do you ask? Feeling restricted, weighed down, claustrophobic, and hot on a 95 degree day suck real bad. 

Keep the speed up, the bike vertical ish, be smooth, look ahead, and oh my you won't crash!!!

I live in New England and frequent Platty, Whiteface, Highland, Killington, and recently Mt. Snow for downhilling.
For xc riding I ride Wendell State forest, Deerfield Ridge, Millstone, Waterbury, Hawley State forest, and Stowe to name a few. 
Pair that with traveling around the country going to races, and I get PLENTY of trail miles in each year!!


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## yzblue242 (May 3, 2008)

charging_rhinos said:


> I use my FF about 75% of the time, whether riding local trails or doing dh stuff. I was SO grateful to have one on a few weeks ago. I probably would have crushed my skull with my xc helmet I hit so hard, and on a rather easy trail I had been down a billion times. My now beloved D2 saved me. I do sweat a bit more going uphill, but that's no big deal when compared to leaving my wife a widow at age 25.
> 
> BTW, DOT certification is crap. It really is. DOT does not in any way, shape or form certify any type of helmet. They have set forth some horribly loose guidelines on what general road helmets should withstand in the form of a simple penetration test, ability to stay on during impact test, and a drop impact test, and they leave it at that. They don't sign off or look at a single test result. Absolute crap, if you ask me. They've proposed amendments that would include certifications, but nothing has really been enacted. Companies basically do not have to come close to keeping a person safe, but could put a DOT sticker on whatever helmet they made, regardless of safety test results (if any). Having a 'DOT approved' or 'DOT certified' sticker on a helmet is more of a marketing ploy than anything, although it can signify a company's attempt to design protective gear in accordance to the horribly loose guidelines/tests DOT does set forth. For pete's sake, they have more regulations set forth on how big and what color the lettering needs to be on the DOT sticker than actual numerical safety benchmarks. Sorry, but that is a sensitive spot for me, if you couldn't tell.


Is that a TLD D2 or the Deviant 2?

Here's my story. I have always worn a regular XC helmet on any ride except Park/DH. About 3 weeks ago, we were doing one of our normal rides when I went down about 200 yards from the end of the ride. I don't remember the crash nor most of the ride out of the woods. When I got to my truck, I looked around and couldn't recall which way I drove in to the parking lot. That freaked me out! I started backtracking through the day up to the point where I fell and remembered everything but the fall and ride to the truck. At that point, I figured I may be slightly concussed, but no major memory loss.

When I got home, I assessed the damage on me and it was all on the left side of my body, including a black and blue spot between my left eye and temple. I immediately thought about a guy that died in this area last year when he hit the side of his face on a rock during a ride. That led me to think, damn, I got really lucky tonight.

I have never really considered using a FF for XC riding, but I have to admit, after that experience, I have been thinking about it. I'm 43 years old with a wife and 3 kids. I love riding, but I have thought a lot lately about the fact that I was potentially 1-2 inches away from a much more serious situation. I think I may have to give the FF ( I have a TLD D2) a try on a ride to see how it feels.

As the one poster mentioned, we go almost as fast on our mountain bikes as we do on dirt bikes, yet we basically wear shorts and a t-shirt on a MTB ride. I would never consider doing a dirt bike ride without full protection, including a FF helmet, so maybe I need to shift my perception of what is acceptable on a mountain bike.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

You should also wear goggles instead of glasses since some have had the plastic arms snap off in a crash and gouge their eyebrow or cheek. There's just no substitue for me, it's a FF or no riding. XC lids are ridiculous. Esp with 20,000+ vents in the damn things. More vents = compromised structure. I also hate drilled rotors.

As to the reply I made about the Dainese shorts above, I returned them since the pelvic padding was inferior. The femur protection was OK but the tailbone padding outdid everything. If they had put the same amount of protection into the rest of the pads as they did for the tail, they might be a keeper. I instead have gone with the Aerostich TF3 hip pads. You can place them on the pelvic bone and they still reach down to the lower half of the femur where the joint bone sticks out. These things are freakin huge. Probably the same area coverage as the shock doctor hip pads, but these are thicker and have a plastic shell covering, albeit it's a little too soft for my taste, but it isn't much worse than what came on the Dainese. They fit snug in my MX pants.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

You don't need a FF for 1 or 2 ft drops, the kind on XC trails... lets get a grip. If you're tearing it up without a reserve or learning new stuff, sure put on the safety gear.

Sometimes MTBrs can be too fruity, half of them exclaim they'd never ride on the road - too dangerous! I'd sooner be inclined to wear all that armour on a bicycle commute than at the local XC trail.


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## bcdale (Jun 26, 2010)

electrik said:


> You don't need a FF for 1 or 2 ft drops,r


You'd be surprised what a 1-3 ft drop can do to your jaw, or that million in one chance of something finding its way right into your ear. Until it happens to that person, they're always the disbeliever and spouter of "oh, that's over the top, you look stupid".


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

bcdale said:


> You'd be surprised what a 1-3 ft drop can do to your jaw, or that million in one chance of something finding its way right into your ear. Until it happens to that person, they're always the disbeliever and spouter of "oh, that's over the top, you look stupid".


you'd be even safer staying at home under your couch.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

bcdale said:


> You'd be surprised what a 1-3 ft drop can do to your jaw, or that million in one chance of something finding its way right into your ear. Until it happens to that person, they're always the disbeliever and spouter of "oh, that's over the top, you look stupid".


I agree. I broke my jaw years ago and it sucked. 3 surgerys and $65k in bills. I wear a FF 99% of the time. The only time I dont wear one is when we do 25-35 mile epic XC trails.

I saw a guy slide off a skinny in BC and land on his face on a log. It knocked out a few teeth and some of his other teeth went through his lip. After I saw this, I changed my mind on helmets.

I too have been knocked out from a bike wreck. I had a nice rasberry on my check and didnt remembe what had happened. If I had a FF on I would have gotten back up and kept riding.


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## knogeorider (Jul 3, 2010)

mykel said:


> I have both a FF and an XC lid.
> A Giro Hex and a Remedy CF.
> 
> I use the FF for LiftAssist, JumpTrails, or anything with a high price for failure. I use the FF as well for just about all riding in the Spring and Fall and bring the XC lid out for the summer heat when just riding regular XC.
> ...


I'm similar to michael just use a skate lid instead of XC and Spy Optics Scoop old prescrption lenses. Getting more used to the FF with use.


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## ToneyRiver (Mar 21, 2009)

I wear a full face when I'm downhilling. Otherwise I ride with a regular lid.


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## macdaddyg2006 (Jun 8, 2006)

*Something to think about...*

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=652610


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

macdaddyg2006 said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=652610


Scary, but relatively rare when riding with a significant reserve.

Walking down the street with your hands in your pockets is probably riskier.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

bcdale said:


> You'd be surprised what a 1-3 ft drop can do to your jaw, or that million in one chance of something finding its way right into your ear. Until it happens to that person, they're always the disbeliever and spouter of "oh, that's over the top, you look stupid".


Really? 1 foot? Sometimes we just have to accept the risk presented by life. We can slip on the icy sidewalk and end up in a coma. Slip going down the stairs. Do you wear a helmet in those scenarios?


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

electrik said:


> Walking down the street with your hands in your pockets is probably riskier.


There was an interesting episode on one of those History/Discovery channel shows where they examined the reasons why older people fall. They had old ladies on a treadmill - suspended in a hardness - with an obstacle popping under their feet. Quite hilarious.


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## electrik (Oct 22, 2009)

Curmy said:


> There was an interesting episode on one of those History/Discovery channel shows where they examined the reasons why older people fall. They had old ladies on a treadmill - suspended in a hardness - with an obstacle popping under their feet. Quite hilarious.


Haha, too cruel! I bet they're wishing they never signed that waiver now.


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## Buster Bluth (Sep 11, 2008)

I almost died from heat exhaustion when I was wearing a full face helmet. No thanks.


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## D.I.S.C.O (Apr 15, 2009)

I will full-face whenever weather permits. I don't care what other people think. Their faces are as good looking as mine.


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## EnduroNewbie (Nov 20, 2010)

Newbie adds his penneth....

For those of you giving those wearing FF's a hard time, saying its down to errors and not bad luck, I'd love for you to see some of the "clients" the company my wife works for.
She works for a company that looks after those that have brain injuries, assessing their injuries and working out what care and at what cost.

Many of these are in fact cyclists that may well have benefited from wearing a hat.

Many had the "I'll never have an accident, I'm too good/experienced/cool to wear a helmet" 

I wont go out on my road bike without a helmet, Ive just bought a 661 FF because the enduro Ive bought will probably mean I try things that may mean contact with stuff.....

Laugh if you like, but once that grey matter is damaged, you probably wont remember those "fools in FF's"

I wouldnt force people to wear protective gear, (though I do with my 4 yr old son! ) its a personal choice and should be exactly that.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

EnduroNewbie said:


> Many of these are in fact cyclists that may well have benefited from wearing a hat.
> 
> Many had the "I'll never have an accident, I'm too good/experienced/cool to wear a helmet"


It is not a question of experience. It is a question of likelihood. Millions and millions of cyclists do just fine with a simple helmet, or with no helmet at all. It is safe enough. It is impractical to worry about all the remote posibilities.

What experience teaches you is a better way to evaluate those risks and making an intelligent decision.

And, by the way, heat stroke and dehydration are no frigging jokes. They can kill just like a fall on your head. It is a real consideration when considering a full face for some hot weather endurance race or ride.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Curmy said:


> It is not a question of experience. It is a question of likelihood. Millions and millions of cyclists do just fine with a simple helmet, or with no helmet at all. It is safe enough. It is impractical to worry about all the remote posibilities.
> 
> What experience teaches you is a better way to evaluate those risks and making an intelligent decision.
> 
> And, by the way, heat stroke and dehydration are no frigging jokes. They can kill just like a fall on your head. It is a real consideration when considering a full face for some hot weather endurance race or ride.


All good points. I chose a mostly white helmet just so try and abate the heat to some degree. I'm happy to report that it does keep me a little cooler than darker ff helmets, and I don't sweat as much in it. I just make sure to drink a little more, and bring an extra packet of Gu or whatever.

As for the remote likelihood of me getting in a crash in which I'd need a full face, odds are about 100-101% that every three rides I will need it. I have a flair for going a bit too fast on trails and paying the consequences. Almost every ride, sadly. I am a decent rider and I do ride intelligently, I'm just good at finding that pesky little babyhead rock... FF for me.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

charging_rhinos said:


> I'm happy to report that it does keep me a little cooler than darker ff helmets, and I don't sweat as much in it. I just make sure to drink a little more, and bring an extra packet of Gu or whatever.


One of the bigger annoyances with a full face for me is that I can not easily use a water bottle while riding, and I do dislike bladders in backpack and those goofy hoses you suck on. Prefer nothing on my back when possible. But then I do enjoy a long climb just as much as a long descend.


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

Curmy said:


> I do enjoy a long climb just as much as a long descend.


whoa, that's weird!


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## 007 (Jun 16, 2005)

Gosh, I'm in the market for a new helmet and this has me giving serious, serious consideration to a FF.

And to think, I'm a neuropsychologist! You'd think I would have automatically gone FF.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

OO7 said:


> And to think, I'm a neuropsychologist! You'd think I would have automatically gone FF.


Yep, as it would be easier for you to catch the signs of heat stroke early.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

charging_rhinos said:


> All good points. I chose a mostly white helmet just so try and abate the heat to some degree. I'm happy to report that it does keep me a little cooler than darker ff helmets, and I don't sweat as much in it. I just make sure to drink a little more, and bring an extra packet of Gu or whatever.
> 
> As for the remote likelihood of me getting in a crash in which I'd need a full face, odds are about 100-101% that every three rides I will need it. I have a flair for going a bit too fast on trails and paying the consequences. Almost every ride, sadly. I am a decent rider and I do ride intelligently, I'm just good at finding that pesky little babyhead rock... FF for me.


Hate to burst your bubble it's been proven in many tests that helmet color has no effect on how hot your head gets. The styrofoam used for impact absorption is also a fantastic insulator (see styrofoam coolers) any extra heat from a darker color is insulated from the head.


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## jgusta (Oct 9, 2004)

I do, usually only when cold to keep the face warm or when I have my helmet cam mounted and filming during more aggro riding. I ride trail to lite FR/DH at most on a Banshee Rune.


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

Amazed this thread has gone on so long, but got more info since last post.

When riding full on DH, it is better to wear an open face helmet than a FF without a neck brace.
There have been a significant amount of fatalities/paralysis due to the additional stress the chin guard puts on the neck.

The believed cause of the increase is below:
In a high speed crash where you take the impact in the face the jawbone tends to dislocate/shatter absorbing a lot of the impact (think crumple zone).
In a FF the additional stability stops the jaw from protecting your neck and there is an increase in dislocation of the C2 vertebrae (think total paralysis from neck down, you can't even breath for yourself.
Full face helmets have been banned in DH ski racing for this reason, youth motorcross as well. They have not been banned in MTB as you can wear a neck brace.
This is a serious risk that does need to be taken into account.

I like the high level of coverage that my FF provides all over my head, so am tempted to remove the chin guard.

This info was got from one of the specialists that works in Chamonix Hospital (Dad is in mountain rescue and his friend).

CaveG


p.s. Can't wait to see Rivets response to this one "my friend is a World class DH guy and crashed on his face and didn't break his neck, so that is BS" =-)


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## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

CaveGiant said:


> Amazed this thread has gone on so long, but got more info since last post.
> 
> When riding full on DH, it is better to wear an open face helmet than a FF without a neck brace.
> There have been a significant amount of fatalities/paralysis due to the additional stress the chin guard puts on the neck.
> ...


To save an aweful lot of bother this is what happened last time CG made this statment. Move along please.


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

CaveGiant said:


> p.s. Can't wait to see Rivets response to this one "my friend is a World class DH guy and crashed on his face and didn't break his neck, so that is BS" =-)


Nope, my friend thinks your a puss.y.


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## Marko G (Jun 24, 2009)

Eh, this is how I look at it...

If you are doing heavy d/h stuff, jumps, etc, it certainly would be advisable to wear a full face helmet, since the chances of you going OTB and really eating ***** are much greater, due to increased speed, angle of your descent, and probability of bailing on a jump...

Doing x/c type riding with a FF just seems unnecessary. Sure, there have been instances where I have gone OTB doing just XC riding, however, the incidence of it happening are MUCH smaller than it happening while doing d/h or heavy AM riding. And every time its happened to me, is when Ive done a downhill section with the wrong bike (steep ha). This is why, while doing XC or light AM riding, a FF may not be necessary. Sure, it could save your face, but the chances of something bad happening are much slimmer than when doing more aggressive things...And, the chances of you being critically injured or dying from a faceplant are very small. (please, dont say how you know a guy that knows a guy that died from a faceplant... isolated incidents dont count and mean very little when discussing the big picture)

A good analogy. How many people wear a crash helmet when driving their car on the street? It could save your life, and at the very least, your teeth and face. Yet, 99.9% of people will say its unnecessary. Same thing here.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

Rivet said:


> Nope, my friend thinks your a puss.y.


SNAP!
:thumbsup:

i don't wear a helmet on the road anymore, and the fullface only comes out on the biggest DH days. whatever, at least it's my choice...


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## CaveGiant (Aug 21, 2007)

The Orange Prophet said:


> ]this[/URL] is what happened last time CG made this statment. Move along please.


That was a car crash of a thread, had fun winding a few idiots up on it though ;-)

If doing DH a leat brace is a good idea if wearing FF. For XC a ff is probably fine without.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

Does Big Brother keep the MET Parachute from being distributed on this side of the pond? Just wonderin. Seems only Chain Reaction over yonder carries it :skep:


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## Mpulsive (Dec 23, 2012)

Jet Fuel said:


> The more you wear your protective gear on the trails, the more comfortable you will be with it. When you have a crash, then you know it is worth it. Then it gets to the point where you feel uncomfortable if you don't wear it.


I agree I'm new to mountain bike riding I've been riding sport bikes my entire life. When I ride my sport bike I ALWAYS wear jeans, boots, leather jacket and gloves. Never leave home without my gear I live in Georgia and it gets very hot and humid here but I would rather burn up then look like pink panther any day!

After reading this post I'm going full gear also FF helmet shin & elbow guards. :thumbsup:


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## SDKmann (Apr 23, 2012)

To echo some of the stories here I don't wear a full face and during a ride on an easy trail this summer I left the trail and got tripped up by some brush after going off a 2' drop and ended up with a piece of wood going all the way through my cheek. I have a nice big arrow shaped scar on my right cheek. The doctor said I was just centimeters away from slicing the nerve that controls my lower lip, would have drooped for the rest of my life, I was lucky. Long story short I wish I would have had a FF that day even if its total overkill the rest of the time.


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