# Lightweight brakes?



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

They are something I've been looking into lately. Since none of the shops in my area really carry these brakes and nobody I ride with use them.

The weight is pretty impressive...especially the Formula R1's. The brakes I've been checking out are the R1's, Magura MT8, and the Hope Race EVO X2. 

How to they compare to the Shimano XT and XTR?

Is anybody using them right now? If you are, how has reliability been? Service intervals?

Thx


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

If you can get them, you want Formula R1R's.

I've had mine since March this year and have not had to touch them once! Didn't even have to bleed after shortening the cables!

This shot was taken of the rear brake, uncut hose, straight out of the box... 169g for lever/caliper/hose.....


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

R1 is nice....but they KILL rotors. Also, warranty service from Formula is dicey, at best. I've since switched to XTR BL-M988....so much better, all around.


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

Zachariah said:


> R1 is nice....but they KILL rotors. Also, warranty service from Formula is dicey, at best. I've since switched to XTR BL-M988....so much better, all around.


Kill rotors? Which rotors? I have never actually worn out a rotor in all my life.....

I suppose warranty support depends on the distributor and stores but here in Australia, it's top notch.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The R1 Race for sure are bling! They are above my budget right now. :lol:

Right now I'm looking into a second hand set of the brakes. 

This time of year is hard on the wallet. :ihih:


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I'm looking as well at the moment.

I have recently tried both the XTR Race (M985), and first gen MT8s. Haven't been particularly happy with either. Not a fan of the lever feel on the Shimanos, and found the Maguras lacked power. 

Apparently the updated MT8s are better. Weight is 199g (claimed) per wheel, unsure if that includes hose.

XTRs also updated this year (M9000), claimed 190g per wheel (hose incl?), but haven't seen reviews yet.

Looks like the newest R1s will easily be lightest, especially given the longer rear hose was 169! 

But, XTR is expensive, MT8s even more, and Formulas are off the charts.

Unsure where I want to go yet.


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## Joshua_B (Oct 1, 2011)

The R1R's are awesome! I have used them for over a year on my race bike. I got mine secondhand for $350 off eBay. I haven't had a problem with my rotors. Best brakes I have ever owned!


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Acko said:


> Kill rotors? Which rotors? I have never actually worn out a rotor in all my life.....
> 
> I suppose warranty support depends on the distributor and stores but here in Australia, it's top notch.


The stock Formula R1 rotors. I do lots of trail descents and the rotors thin out fast.


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## muntos (Jul 28, 2013)

I had the same dilemma, what to buy, R1 Racing were my first option based on weight, luckily I met someone with the latest R1 racing brakes and he was so disappointed on them, so I looked something else. In the end he couldn't live with them and sent them back. 
In the end I end up with the new XTR 2015 and as you can see they are pretty light (front brake, uncut)


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## Joshua_B (Oct 1, 2011)

I use Ashima rotors, they seem to be good-really lightweight too!


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

muntos said:


> I had the same dilemma, what to buy, R1 Racing were my first option based on weight, luckily I met someone with the latest R1 racing brakes and he was so disappointed on them, so I looked something else. In the end he couldn't live with them and sent them back.


Explain.... What was disappointing? What did he try to remedy them? The Australian distributor told me that they've had 2 in the past year that came with minor defects due to being machine assembled in the factory and all they took was replacing a twisted rubber washer and they were all good.

Those XTRS are way heavier... This is a WW forum... 20g per end is heaps!


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## muntos (Jul 28, 2013)

It was about pads clearance. WW forum I agree, but not like this, you are clearly exaggerating and beside this almost everyone knows that brakes are not the place to drop weight.


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## Joshua_B (Oct 1, 2011)

I would have to say getting the calipers centered on the rotors is a pain, but it just takes a bit of patience.


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

muntos said:


> It was about pads clearance. WW forum I agree, but not like this, you are clearly exaggerating and beside this almost everyone knows that brakes are not the place to drop weight.


What did he do to remedy the pad clearance? 
Some brakes (from all manufacturers) actually come with too much fluid and to fully retract the pots is impossible. 
In this case, you remove a tiny amount of fluid and you're good to go. 
Sounds like your mate had a poor mechanic or need to ask someone how to fix it. 
XX world cup brakes are just as finnicky to get right.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Hard to say for sure, but looks like my XTRs would be ~239g per wheel. I could save 140g by moving to the R1s - that's significant.


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## muntos (Jul 28, 2013)

Acko said:


> What did he do to remedy the pad clearance?
> Some brakes (from all manufacturers) actually come with too much fluid and to fully retract the pots is impossible.
> In this case, you remove a tiny amount of fluid and you're good to go.
> Sounds like your mate had a poor mechanic or need to ask someone how to fix it.
> XX world cup brakes are just as finnicky to get right.


The problem was not only having the rotor centered, but keeping it this way, tried many mechanics but no luck


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## Yellowr6 (Mar 30, 2011)

here's my XX. if weight is ur priority and price. Feels liked any avid set, but a tap better. But the R1s feel better.


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## Jerome (Dec 21, 2003)

For the weight difference and considering the [stellar] track record of the newest XTR M-988 or M-9000, I would choose the Shimanos, despite their small weight "handicap". I've been using Formula Oro Puros on my main bike for years and am very satisfied, but after hearing so much complaints about the pads tolerance on the R1s and testing one of my buddies XTRs (super powerful/good modulation), my next brakes will be Shimano XTRs for sure (with Formula Rotors, probably). Plus, the modulation is better, even though it's not a big factor.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

OK Acko, you sold me on the Formula R1Rs. You are now responsible for the results.


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## migmtb (Jan 12, 2008)

I have been on the R1's for 1 year 8 months on my Jet 9RDO. I've had Oro Puros on my Ibis for over 8 years with no issues. Well, my rear pistons were sticking at one point but my shop took care of that. My R1's did have issues with pad clearance and they ended at at Formula for warranty work. Unfortunately they ended up at Formula for a second time. Since then, pad clearance is great and couldn't be happier. I thought the warranty was a little frustrating but as long as you communicate with Formula they will take care of you.I had good luck working with Jake Francek from Formula. He called me and emailed me regularly to update me on the status. Brakes were sent back to me within 3 days. The first time it did take almost 2 weeks. In any case, I would not change a thing and loving the brakes.


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

phlegm said:


> OK Acko, you sold me on the Formula R1Rs. You are now responsible for the results.


Does that also mean I'm bathed in glory when you love them?

They work their absolute best with Formula rotors but for others, adding/removing brake fluid has solved most caliper/rotor clearance issues I've heard.
A tiny bit of grease between the mounting bolts and caliper body will help with stopping the caliper moving with the torque of the bolt head as you give them their final alignment tightening.
As I mentioned earlier in the thread, the Aus distro has come across 2 sets that had a slightly twisted rubber washer that had to be re-seated and then all was good.

There are actually 2 distros here in Australia, the one I've been dealing with is amazing, he could almost quote you part numbers and can explain every model year difference. The other is a HUGE distro and Formula brakes are one of their smaller lines, their phone support barely seems to know model names...

Formula brand pads seem to be better than a few other brands I've tried.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Acko said:


> Does that also mean I'm bathed in glory when you love them?
> ....


Nope, as in typical forum style, I will be silent if they perform well, but mock you if I have any sort of concern.

Actually, looking forward to them.

As I have Shimano shifting (I-Spec), I aim to keep it. This means an elaborate combination of Formula Mixmasters and Problems Solvers Mismatch 2.0.


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

phlegm said:


> Nope, as in typical forum style, I will be silent if they perform well, but mock you if I have any sort of concern.
> 
> Actually, looking forward to them.
> 
> As I have Shimano shifting (I-Spec), I aim to keep it. This means an elaborate combination of Formula Mixmasters and Problems Solvers Mismatch 2.0.


HA HA HA HA HA!

Yep! Just like the X Model Frames must ALLLL crack because I have seen 10 posts in one thread about them in the space of the last 5 years!


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## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

phlegm said:


> Actually, looking forward to them.


I look forward to a detailed weight weenie inspired write up. You're not allowed to leave us hanging


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

CuddlyToast said:


> I look forward to a detailed weight weenie inspired write up. You're not allowed to leave us hanging


Will do. Also ordered some Ti rotors. Should be interesting.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Soooo...I've been looking at some used R1's.

How do I tell the different years apart or are there different models of the R1?

I've seen models without the reach adjustment knob, ones with a carbon lever, some with the knob on the outside of the lever, and ones with the knob on the inside of the lever ( I assume those are the newest version).

Thanks!


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

I feel your pain man. I had never bought Formulas before either, so did a lot of research.

Someone can correct me, but 2014 saw the introduction on the new "pull" piston action, and both 2014 and 2015 seem the same. They also have the black caliper accent (with website on it), are polished silver, yellow kevlar hose.

I've seen black R1Rs, some have red accents - must be older. I've also seen some on eBay advertised as 2015, but they had a shiny black hose that I never see for recent R1Rs. Not sure what that is about.

Also saw a guy on Pinkbike indicating R1Rs, but photo showed R0s.

Confusing.

Just wound up buying from Chain Reaction.


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## Yellowr6 (Mar 30, 2011)

RS VR6 said:


> Soooo...I've been looking at some used R1's.
> 
> How do I tell the different years apart or are there different models of the R1?
> 
> ...


here's my 2010-2011 models. if this helps. Haha, guess i will be bidding with u guys if theres an used set on ebay out there.


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## iperov (Sep 9, 2012)

CSC brakes










link to taobao with sort by bestselling
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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Yellowr6 said:


> here's my 2010-2011 models. if this helps. Haha, guess i will be bidding with u guys if theres an used set on ebay out there.


Dang...I thought you'd get more weight savings.

I got these weights for the XT from Sicklines. Caliper, hose, and lever.

Front: 281.5
Rear: 292.8
=574.3

You're only saving 72 grams...or am I missing something?


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

Those 2010-2011 ones have several "non stock" additions.. 
the quick release hoses (added weight) and lever adjusters (more added weight)

The R1's are light

The R1 RACING are the super light ones. They have a lower profile reservoir (see my earlier pic) and an alloy lever. The R1R has a shorter lever than the R1 (carbon lever) and as mentioned they have the "PULL" rather than "Push" lever action (look at where the pivots are).
The reasoning behind alloy lever on R1R is that for the shorter lever length, they could not make a lighter Carbon one with the same stiffness as alloy


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## Yellowr6 (Mar 30, 2011)

Did I get lucky or what? $220 shipped. Can someone please tell me what year is this? Can't wait to get them and wait them.

Formula R1 Racing Disc Brake Hydraulic Carbon Fiber Brake Set | eBay


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

That's the older pre-2014 type of R1 Racing. They can be quite light, but not as light as the newer R1 Racing.


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## Yellowr6 (Mar 30, 2011)

TigWorld said:


> That's the older pre-2014 type of R1 Racing. They can be quite light, but not as light as the newer R1 Racing.


Cool. Thx.

Any chance u know the year? Can't be older than 2012. My guess is 2013. Figure I don't want to spent over $500 for the current models. And I could resell my 2011 model for what I spent on these today. It's liked a free upgrade. And I don't have to use my XX anymore. Win-win.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

The carbon lever is the giveaway. The new piston setup (2014+) could not accommodate a carbon lever.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

There is another set on Ebay for 300. That has the carbon lever also.

Keeping my eye out for the MT-8 too.


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## Yellowr6 (Mar 30, 2011)

Magura Carbon MT8 Front and Rear Brakeset with Rotors


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Yellowr6 said:


> Magura Carbon MT8 Front and Rear Brakeset with Rotors


Just FYI, those are the older versions. New ones have been updated:
MT8*| MAGURA


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

That would explain why Jenson USA has MT-8's for $199 and $339. The bar clamp looks different on the new ones, I recall that they had some issues with stability of clamping to the bar and stripped threads on the bolts from people trying to get them tight enough.



phlegm said:


> Just FYI, those are the older versions. New ones have been updated:
> MT8*| MAGURA


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

How do XTR compare weight-wise to the MT8s and Formulas?


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

TiGeo said:


> How do XTR compare weight-wise to the MT8s and Formulas?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

So basically they are heavier by the weight of the rotors.


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

TiGeo said:


> So basically they are heavier by the weight of the rotors.


See page 1. My R1R's were 169g with uncut hoses... so a significant % lighter


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

+1 on Formula R1. I have not tried R1R but I find Formula brakes to be reliable, maintenance free and strong.

People often have a lot of problems centering formula brakes - there is an easy solution:

The problem I've seen on both my Formula R1 and my Formula The One, is that they are biased towards one side - if you center the normal way, one side (usually the inner piston) will drag.

So, use a small piece of business card, between the dragging pad, and the rotor, during centering. Insert it between the pad and the rotor, nudging the caliper over a tiny bit, squeeze the lever and tighten the bolts. Viola, you are centered, no dragging.


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## Acko (Feb 18, 2014)

I find that issues with alignment of Formula brakes can also be exaggerated because the caliper is direct mount to the frame (no washer system like avid).

Many brake mounts are not perfectly faced resulting in a slightly angled caliper. (you should always have a GOOD mechanic have a look at these for you when buying a new frame)

Another issue comes from the final tightening of the bolts which tend to drag on the caliper body slightly, bringing it out of alignment.


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Acko said:


> See page 1. My R1R's were 169g with uncut hoses... so a significant % lighter


Also, to add to the confusion, the latest XTRs, new this year (M9000) are light, and significantly lighter than older XTRs (say M980), but still heavier than R1Rs.

Not counting rotors as that is too variable, given sizing differences.


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

phlegm said:


> Also, to add to the confusion, the latest XTRs, new this year (M9000) are light, and significantly lighter than older XTRs (say M980), but still heavier than R1Rs.
> 
> Not counting rotors as that is too variable, given sizing differences.


There was also the XTR M987 brakes, which were slightly heavier than the M9000 brakes, but significantly lighter than the M985 brakes.


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## Jerome (Dec 21, 2003)

From the weights released by Velovert (a French magazine) taken from their precision scale (see here: Toutes les pièces vélo de la categorie Frein à disque sur le BikeSumo) the XTR M987 are slightly lighter (for the set) than the XTR9000.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

weird - what's the difference of the xtr 9000 vs 987? I have the 987 now and am impressed with their power vs. weight ratio


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## phlegm (Jul 13, 2006)

Jerome said:


> From the weights released by Velovert (a French magazine) taken from their precision scale (see here: Toutes les pièces vélo de la categorie Frein à disque sur le BikeSumo) the XTR M987 are slightly lighter (for the set) than the XTR9000.


Interesting- according to their site the older M987 set is 3g lighter than newest M9000.

I like this site assuming the weights are accurate - good reference.


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## Yellowr6 (Mar 30, 2011)

here's my new R1 i got used from ebay. Should be a 2013 model. weight about the same as my XX. im happy.


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## CuddlyToast (Oct 30, 2013)

I have read that the current/last gen XTR trail version provide more stopping power, than the new xtr9000. Can somebody confirm this? Would it be sizable difference? I would love to get some lighter options for brakes, but I'm a shimano fan boy.


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## Jerome (Dec 21, 2003)

phlegm said:


> Interesting- according to their site the older M987 set is 3g lighter than newest M9000.
> 
> I like this site assuming the weights are accurate - good reference.


Thanks. Yes, they are accurate. They explain their weighing method in the magazine they issue each year on the same subject.


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

Know that Shimano has a race and a trail version to their brakes. The difference between the 987s and m9000s is a phenolic piston that can handle like 10% more heat. Otherwise, nothing about weight difference?
I was wanting the Formulas...bought Quaxar Iris discs to help with the clearance(and they super light) at 1.7mm....found a deal on KCNC X7s which are super light....but they were short for my bike so I ended up with 987s at just over $300.00(cheape now but they old out) for the pair which is awesome for high end brakes(through Merlincycles.com). all high end brakes are over $400.00/pair...plus they are Shimanos and are set and forget.


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