# Custom Specialized Demo 8 eMTB Build



## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Hi everybody,


I'm new to this forum, but have been mountain biking for well over 10 years now. More specifically, I have really grown to enjoy electric mountain biking (eMTB).For several years now, I've been building and repairing these type of bikes, and have decided to document one of the type of builds I like to do. Hopefully, there are others out there that may be curious about these electric assist bikes, and would find a documented custom build like this of interest. 

*
Disclaimer:*_I would like to point out that this specific build is __on the more __controversional__ end of __eMTB__. Unfortunately, there is a lot of misunderstanding around these bikes, and this build may raise further concerns. I would really like to avoid any hate that may come of this; I prefer constructive criticism and valid factual based concerns though. Essentially this is going to be a bit of an overkill, like driving a street legal __sandrail__,__ but can and should still be treated in a matter that is respectful of everybody around us, the environment, and the law!__ This is not meant to encourage reckless __behavio__r__!_


For this particular one build, I will be taking a 2011 Specialized Demo 8 ii I had recently purchased, and going from there. This bike has been ridden pretty hard, but it should turn out very nice once it's completed. I will continue to update this build as it comes along, and look forward to all the comments and feedback as it progresses.


These are just the pics from the night we picked it up, and got it home. The list of things wrong that I can comment on this feels endless, starting with the rattle-can paint job. The one positive thing about this though, is that the frame is solid, and it came with a 2013 Fox 40 fork (2 different springs included), a Fox DHX RC4 rear shock. Everything else will either be replaced, or need quite a bit of TLC.
















Updates coming soon...


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## boogsie (Oct 20, 2011)

well thats piqued my interest :thumbsup:
any images of other bikes you've built?


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Keep em coming! Im really interested as well. Just ignore the trolls, and build that swEet rig


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Hey,

Thanks for the positive feedback! 

Unfortunately, I don't really have any pictures of the other builds I've done besides my daily commuter. It's a 2005 Rocky Mountain Flow FS with a Bafang BBS02; nothing really special but, with over 4500 miles on the kit, I'm pretty happy. I can tell it needs another rebuild for some fresh grease, so I'll probably start another thread for that soon, and take some pictures of the bike. I know there are quite a few Bafang owners out there, so hopefully they'll find that maintenance thread helpful; although there is quite a bit of information already out there.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

*Disassembly*

My first order of business was to completely strip the entire thing down to the last bolt. I've set the wheels and fork aside for a later date. There were multiple times I felt like using anti-seize spray for all the dirt and rust build up (but that would have been ridiculous). I can only imagine how much 'fun' it's going to be cleaning everything with degreaser, and removing all the rust on the thread and bolt heads with a media tumbler.

So far, the headset cups should be just fine, and the Raceface X-type bottom bracket is in pretty good condition, with just some minor external blemishes. Hopefully the bottom bracket will work with the motor assembly, but we'll see. I'll definitely order all new frame bearings, but there are still a few bearings in here that just need to be refurbished. I'm getting everything ready for powder coating, and I decided to go with a gun metal gray color that's not completely matte, but not really glossy either. I also want to get the shock lowers powder coated with the frame to really tie everything up.

My goal is to get everything cleaned up, as everything gets powder coated, so I can just jump right into assembly mode. Below are some of the pics I took of the disassembly.



















































Also, my apologies for the mess in the background, and the poor lighting. I'm still converting the space, so I hope to have new lights installed and everything organized a lot better soon.

More updates soon...


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Nice! Looking forward to the assembly. How are you planning on doing the cable routing? Internal would be nice but it'll be tricky. 


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Thanks!

To be honest, I haven't really decided how to do the routing. In this particular case, I'll have the regular shifter cable and brake line to route, plus like 10 wires going between the motor, controller, display, and battery.

So far, these are my thoughts, but let me know if I'm off on anything.

*Dirty routing:*
The simplest, ugliest, and least safe method. I can just use a combination of tape, zip ties, and different kinds of wiring looms to run along the frame. Aside from probably looking kind of hideous, everything will be exposed to the elements. I'll probably avoid this at all costs haha.

*Internal routing:*
I love the idea of internal routing! It's such a clean look and feel, but given the amount of wiring there will be (probably 1 inch in diameter worth of wires and cables), I'm not sure if it's realistic. I could design and 3D print custom grommets for the various wires and lines, but I feel that it would compromise the structural integrity of the frame, making that large of openings. Again, I could be wrong...

*Custom housing:*
This is probably the goldilocks solution. It'll add a bit more bulk to the frame, but it should still have a clean look, protect all the wires and cables, and allow for easy setup and maintenance. I'll try to design as low profile of a housing as I can, and run everything up the underside of the down tube between the bottom brack/motor, and the head tube.

I'm open to suggestions, and I'll post the pictures of the motor and all of the electronics when they come in.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

I've done a bit of car audio installs in the past, and highly recommend using braided expandable wire sleeves. Those sleeves will protect the wires from abrasions, plus they look better than the usual wire looms.


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## duncanish (Sep 30, 2005)

You got my attention, cool build


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Thank for the advice Pinoy! 

I'll still probably go with the custom downtube cover for the wiring along the frame, but the braided expandable wire sleeves would be perfect for the high amperage cable for the battery pack. I really want to go with a backpack battery pack for this build, and from what I've seen the best solution is to have the connector go from the backpack, down the rider's arm, and connect by the handlebar grip. This supposedly provides more flexibility for getting on and off the bike.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

So I started to clean up all of the parts, while the frame and lowers are getting powder coated. Nothing like a little degreaser, media tumbler, and a good of old fashioned toothbrush. I took some pictures of some of the pieces already cleaned up, and some other ones as a side-by-side comparison. I'll be honest, I'm particularly impressed with how the bearings turned out given their original state. Even though I bought new ones, I feel that I was really able to refurbish at least 60% of them.

Otherwise, not much to mention here, I just can't wait for everything to be powder coated. I also want to mention I ordered a 3kW Cyclone Drive and a Cycle Analyst with some goodies that should hopefully be at my doorstep soon.









































































Powder coated frame coming soon...


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

eBikesmith said:


> ...I ordered a 3kW Cyclone Drive and a Cycle Analyst with some goodies that should hopefully be at my doorstep soon.


I am curious as to what you are going to use for drivetrain with that.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I'm curious about sudden dismounts with you arm wired to the bike!


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

While I like to idea of moving the battery from the frame to the backpack...8 pounds off the bike will definitely make a huge improvement. But that battery cable connection is a bit of concern when you need to bail.

You may want to look into some quick connect/disconnect adaptors like these: 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0051PLP3U?psc=1

You may need to mod it a bit to make it work as desired.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> I am curious as to what you are going to use for drivetrain with that.


I've been thinking about this for a while, and there are just so many different option to consider. This is basically how I broke it down.

*Hub Transmission:*
I particularly like this option because the gearing is enclosed, and I can use a belt drive. With this much power though, I know the Nuvinci hub seals will just rip apart. I've seen videos where they just break open, and leave guys stranded with only 750 watt motors. This leaves the Rohloff and Shimano's Alfine as the only options. The Rohloff is really cool, but insanely expensive for my taste. If I go this route, It'll probably be the Alfine 11 with the electronic shifting. I'm not too concerned with adding the additional unsprung weight to be honest.

*Mid drive Transmission:*
I also really like the idea of a mid-drive transmission, but I don't see this as an option for this build. Currently, I would only consider a Pinion gearbox, but they are extremely difficult to get separately (basically impossible), and I would realistically need to build a frame around it.

*Standard Drivetrain:*
As far as I know, the only truly dedicated setup for ebikes is SRAM's EX1. I really like it, but at that price point, I feel that I would rather opt for the Alfine 11. The only issue I see with going with a standard Shimano XT drivetrain, or SRAM Eagle, is the gear banging, chain breaking, and chain slipping. In my current experience, I feel that everything is manageable, with the gear banging being the hardest to deal with. One of the goodies I mentioned earlier that is coming with the Cycle Analyst I ordered is a shifter motor cut-off switch. I'm curious to find out if this will allow me to reliably use a standard cassette.

In conclusion, I'm going to try out a standard 10 speed XT drivetrain setup with a clutch type derailleur, and a narrow-wide front chain ring (for the chain slipping), with the shifter cable running through the cut-off switch (for the gear banging). The only issue left would be the chain snapping, and I believe that could be resolved with a little bit of firmware tweaking on the Cycle Analyst.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Thanks for that connector link Pinoy!

This is my first personal foray into backpack battery packs, and there are several safety concerns in the back of my mind that I’m trying to fine tune. In regards to the connector, I was just going to have an Anderson connector, or even the one Pinoy linked above. I would just need to make sure it’s weather proof, and isn’t lockable, but still snug enough to not just fall out due to vibrations, and possibly very light tugs. They way I imagine it, is that the connection will occur on the handlebar, with the female housing firmly attached to the handlebar. The male end will come off of the wrist just enough to provide leeway, but not possibly get tangled with anything. I imagine a few Velcro straps between where the cable comes out of the backpack through the camelback water pouch hose outlet, and the wrist, it shouldn’t really get tangled in anything either. Even if it does, that’s why I feel it’s important to not have the connection point lockable. I might even make a second set of connectors inside of the backpack as well to allow the cable to disconnect from the battery if necessary without damaging the battery pack.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

If I may I have lots of time on my e bike riding trails this also means some good crashes ,You do not want to be riding with the battery in a back pack .Try thinking about putting it on the down tube that's about the only place I can see on your frame . I found the Anderson connectors not that great but they are crimped on and if you use them in a back pack you will see what I mean . Your Battery will wt 14 lbs and cost over $800 not something you want on your back when going over the bars . I am a little concerned that for your first e build you are using the cylone its very powerful and not for novice buliders so good luck keep us posted


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

eBikesmith said:


> I've been thinking about this for a while, and there are just so many different option to consider. This is basically how I broke it down.
> 
> *Hub Transmission:*
> I particularly like this option because the gearing is enclosed, and I can use a belt drive. With this much power though, I know the Nuvinci hub seals will just rip apart. I've seen videos where they just break open, and leave guys stranded with only 750 watt motors. This leaves the Rohloff and Shimano's Alfine as the only options. The Rohloff is really cool, but insanely expensive for my taste. If I go this route, It'll probably be the Alfine 11 with the electronic shifting. I'm not too concerned with adding the additional unsprung weight to be honest.


If you can find one, Nuvinci N171 has a good reputation for strength and would probably hold up pretty well, but at 3.85_kg (8.47_lb) bare it does seem to emphasize the heavy in heavy duty.

Rohloff is not just expensive, but also has a lot of gear ranges, arguably too many. And you still have to be cognizant of the input torque limit.

Alfine seems lightly constructed, probably OK for the intended use, but is not something I would want in a hub drive application in a high power eMTB as it sees too much torque at the input.

https://electricbike-blog.com/2016/03/09/kicking-it-old-school-with-a-nuvinci-n171-at-2400-watts/



eBikesmith said:


> *Mid drive Transmission:*
> I also really like the idea of a mid-drive transmission, but I don't see this as an option for this build. Currently, I would only consider a Pinion gearbox, but they are extremely difficult to get separately (basically impossible), and I would realistically need to build a frame around it.


Some have used an Alfine hub as an over-driven (reduces input torque) mid-drive gearbox, but that is too much development effort for one-off applications.



eBikesmith said:


> *Standard Drivetrain:*
> As far as I know, the only truly dedicated setup for ebikes is SRAM's EX1. I really like it, but at that price point, I feel that I would rather opt for the Alfine 11. The only issue I see with going with a standard Shimano XT drivetrain, or SRAM Eagle, is the gear banging, chain breaking, and chain slipping. In my current experience, I feel that everything is manageable, with the gear banging being the hardest to deal with. One of the goodies I mentioned earlier that is coming with the Cycle Analyst I ordered is a shifter motor cut-off switch. I'm curious to find out if this will allow me to reliably use a standard cassette.


That SRAM EX1 looks very interesting to me. Not sure how well executed it is, but the stated design intent seems spot on.



eBikesmith said:


> *In conclusion*, I'm going to try out a standard 10 speed XT drivetrain setup with a clutch type derailleur, and a narrow-wide front chain ring (for the chain slipping), with the shifter cable running through the cut-off switch (for the gear banging). The only issue left would be the chain snapping, and I believe that could be resolved with a little bit of firmware tweaking on the Cycle Analyst.


EX1 gets you an 11-48t cassette made from tool steel, a stronger chain, and well behaved shifting in both directions under full load, no need to cut power either to shift down or to shift up. But it is expensive, and maybe not worth the extra money.

I have no direct experience with the EX1 and have not read any anecdotal reports that include any long-term use, so I do not know how well executed the design engineering and product development are in actuality in this. If it really does deliver on the promise of improved performance and reliability, both, then that would be worth the extra cost to me.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Unless you are looking for near 125cc MX performance, why do you need 11 gears with 3000w? And if that's what you are into, why are you here at a bicycle forum? I am building a FS fat bike with 3000+ watts (88v @ 45/50amps), but it is for OHV areas only and I would never post about it here as it is totally irrelevant. 

BTW I am using a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub on my build to prevent grinding the hub internals into dust.


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

WoodlandHills said:


> Unless you are looking for near 125cc MX performance, why do you need 11 gears with 3000w? And if that's what you are into, why are you here at a bicycle forum? I am building a FS fat bike with 3000+ watts (88v @ 45/50amps), but it is for OHV areas only and I would never post about it here as it is totally irrelevant.
> 
> BTW I am using a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub on my build to prevent grinding the hub internals into dust.


3kw is just a nominal rating for the electric motor, and would be associated with a low duty cycle. That motor is not capable of dissipating heat associated with 3kw continuous. It is capable of briefly sustaining 3kw power crests, and continuous output would be a fraction of that.

Also it is useful to have more than several gear ranges to optimize performance and extend range. Rather than power, current through the windings is more closely associated with heat. Within usable operating rpm range, for the same power output it will draw less current and generate less heat at higher revs but is also less efficient at higher revs, and will draw more current and generate more heat at lower revs but is also more efficient at lower revs. A choice among usable gear ranges allow one to balance these considerations.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Again, at a "nominal 3000w rating" this motor is 4 times more powerful than is legally permitted for an ebike motor in the United States: 750w is the limit....... BTW, the Luna page selling this motor is covered with warnings that this motor is not street legal and if it is not street legal it is not trail legal either as far a multi use trails go. i.e. It is not a bicycle if it is over 750w.

According to the Luna Cycle site electric bike.com the Cyclone is designed to handle far more power than its nominal rating of 3000w with a 40amp controller. This strongly suggests that the 3000w rating is a continuous rating not a momentary one. The builder could always run a 36v battery and reprogram the controller to 20amps or a 52v battery at 15 amps, but why? If the intent is to build a trail legal ebike a 15a BBS02 would serve the same purpose, even a BBSHD at a nominal 750w would do the job.

Irregardless of how this machine is ridden it will never be legal on any bike trail in America, however I would love to meet up with the builder at an OHV area and compare eMX bikes once mine is finished.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> Try thinking about putting it on the down tube that's about the only place I can see on your frame . I found the Anderson connectors not that great but they are crimped on and if you use them in a back pack you will see what I mean . Your Battery will wt 14 lbs and cost over $800 not something you want on your back when going over the bars . I am a little concerned that for your first e build you are using the cylone its very powerful and not for novice buliders so good luck keep us posted


Thanks for the feedback! I've given down tube mounting some consideration on this one, but unfortunately, even a regular dolphin pack isn't going to fit on this frame (at least not within the triangle). I don't really want to mount it underneath either, just because I've done dual dolphin packs an a couple different builds, and the one underneath has always ended up sustaining some damage, particularly when I bottom out. With that said, I have been wanting to build a custom enclosure for a bike to do a bottom mount, but I figured I would give a backpack battery pack a try first. I've seen others do it on ES, and they have said they've had some pretty bad crashes, but with enough padding, the battery never got damaged. As for the weight and price of the battery, that's about what I would be expecting considering the cells I'm using, depending on the total Amp hours, but since I'm building the battery pack myself, my cost is substantially lower than $800. Also, you may have missed it in previous posts, and probably inferred it from this one, this is not first rodeo with custom builds (although it is my first Cyclone). I'm slowly progressing with the build, so I appreciate the support and will have more soon.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> If you can find one, Nuvinci N171 has a good reputation for strength and would probably hold up pretty well, but at 3.85_kg (8.47_lb) bare it does seem to emphasize the heavy in heavy duty.


I honestly totally forgot about this thing. Yeah, if it didn't weigh over 8lbs, it might be worth considering. I mean, even if it's mounted in a mid-frame gearbox configuration, as opposed to 8lbs of unsprung weight on that poor rim and shock, that's still 8lbs lol.

Overall, I agree with your line of thinking on the different options.



> I have no direct experience with the EX1 and have not read any anecdotal reports that include any long-term use, so I do not know how well executed the design engineering and product development are in actuality in this. If it really does deliver on the promise of improved performance and reliability, both, then that would be worth the extra cost to me.


You've definitely polished up some good points with the EX1, and I think I'll just go with a standard drivetrain for now with the motor cutoff for the shifter, and tuning the software for the ramp up, and go from there (about a $200 setup). It's been bulletproof with my 750w BBS02, so I'll see how this works out. If not, I'll just man up, and cash out on the EX1. I actually really want to put it through its paces.


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

WoodlandHills said:


> Again, at a "nominal 3000w rating" this motor is 4 times more powerful than is legally permitted for an ebike motor in the United States: 750w is the limit....... BTW, the Luna page selling this motor is covered with warnings that this motor is not street legal and if it is not street legal it is not trail legal either as far a multi use trails go. i.e. It is not a bicycle if it is over 750w.


Derate it for continuous use. If it can sustain 750, and if you want to limit it to 750W, then program the controller to limit it to 750W, and you will have a 750W ebike. It really is as simple as that. If regulations in the jurisdiction in which you operate impose a 750W limit on your ebike, and that depends very much on where you live and where you will use this, then attach a rating plate that states the 750W power limit to make the bike comply with the regs.



WoodlandHills said:


> According to the Luna Cycle site electric bike.com the Cyclone is designed to handle far more power than its nominal rating of 3000w with a 40amp controller. This strongly suggests that the 3000w rating is a continuous rating not a momentary one. The builder could always run a 36v battery and reprogram the controller to 20amps or a 52v battery at 15 amps, but why? If the intent is to build a trail legal ebike a 15a BBS02 would serve the same purpose, even a BBSHD at a nominal 750w would do the job.


That merely indicates that Luna offers a controller that enables you to input higher power levels into the motor for shorter crest durations. I would not draw any inference from that about sustained output power level.



WoodlandHills said:


> Irregardless of how this machine is ridden it will never be legal on any bike trail in America, however I would love to meet up with the builder at an OHV area and compare eMX bikes once mine is finished.


That seems false to me because it presumes that there is some U.S. Federal law or regulaton that limits power on eMTBs in use on all trails everywhere, federal land, state land in all states, territorial land in all territories, district land in D.C., indian reservations, private land in all states and territories, many different jurisdictions.

FTC has some regulations for bikes sold at retail, but that does not apply to something that you assemble for your own use.

I will believe you only if you provide a link to a real authoritative source such as a government website showing that U.S. Federal law or regulation, else I think it is just more false fabricated disinformation that is being promulgated on this subject.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> Unless you are looking for near 125cc MX performance, why do you need 11 gears with 3000w? And if that's what you are into, why are you here at a bicycle forum? I am building a FS fat bike with 3000+ watts (88v @ 45/50amps), but it is for OHV areas only and I would never post about it here as it is totally irrelevant.


Hey WoodlandHills,

You bring up some valid points. I have never ridden dirt bikes, or any kind of motorcycles for that matter, so I can't really say what 125cc MX performance feels like. Nonetheless, I get your point.

What I'm really looking for is a hybrid, but not in the conventional sense of road/mountain. I enjoy commuting on my bike, and typically commuters ride something rigid to get the most out of their pedaling. Electric bikes have changed that, and made commuting on a full suspension all mountain bike practical. That's what I currently do with my Rocky Mountain Flow FS. It has a 750w BBS02 with Schwalbe Crazy Bobs, and I love it. I also enjoy using it for trail riding, so I just have a second set of wheels ready to go. I am perfectly content with the 750w motor for all the trail riding I do, and I rarely even use all the power because I'm usually only in level 1/2 assist mode anyways.

So why the 3k and how is this a bicycle? Well basically, it's when I'm on the streets I'm constantly looking for more power. You're right, a 3kw motor would automatically make this not an eBike by California law. Fortunately, we have the ability to limit this power using the controller. The way I see it, I figured for the price point of the Cyclone kit, it would cost me more to put any of the Bafang drives on this. On the other hand, if I want to, I can register it in the future with the DMV, and possibly make it a street legal motorcycle (not highway), legally utilizing all of the power. So as long as I'm keeping the power at 750w, I'm perfectly within the realm of calling this an eMTB (which I use 65% on the road), and have reason to post here IMO.

I just thought maybe there are others who would also like to have a universal build for a FS ebike for the streets(<750w), eMTB for the trails (<750w), and a DMV registered bike (>750w). I'm not sure what the laws are regarding MX, but I guess you can include that as well. Worse comes to worse, I can revert back to one of the Bafang kits, and go from there. We'll see how the build progresses. I'm very respectable of everybody around, and particularly the laws, so if it becomes an issue, I'll adapt.



> BTW I am using a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub on my build to prevent grinding the hub internals into dust.


Thanks for the info btw! That Archer was not on my radar, so I'll definitely look into it.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> however I would love to meet up with the builder at an OHV area and compare eMX bikes once mine is finished.


I would definitely be down. I've been interested in FS eMTB fat bikes for a while. I don't know where you ride, but I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area.

Btw, *THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR NOT OUTRIGHT TURNING THIS INTO A TRAIL ACCESS SHARK TANK POST! *There are way too many threads on here that have turned into that, and they are just becoming way too nasty to follow. I'm just trying to document a build, and hope others find it interesting.


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

eBikesmith said:


> WoodlandHills said:
> 
> 
> > BTW I am using a Sturmey Archer 3-speed hub on my build to prevent grinding the hub internals into dust.
> ...


The three speed Sturmey Archer has a strong second gear, but a not so strong first gear. Be careful of overloading the input with excessive torque.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

JRT_in_WMass said:


> Derate it for continuous use. If it can sustain 750, and if you want to limit it to 750W, then program the controller to limit it to 750W, and you will have a 750W ebike. It really is as simple as that. If regulations in the jurisdiction in which you operate impose a 750W limit on your ebike, and that depends very much on where you live and where you will use this, then attach a rating plate that states the 750W power limit to make the bike comply with the regs.
> 
> That merely indicates that Luna offers a controller that enables you to input higher power levels into the motor for shorter crest durations. I would not draw any inference from that about sustained output power level.
> 
> ...


 You seem so certain that I am incorrect, perhaps you can tell me just which MUTs allow 3000w ebikes access and where? Can you tell me which state allows ebikes of over 750w to legally operate as bicycles and not as mopeds or motorcycles irregardless of by whom or where they are assembled? I do not know of any...... Nor do I know of any bicycle trails in this country that permit mopeds or motorcycles, electric or otherwise, no matter what jurisdiction they me be in. Of course one can run any power level one wants as long as it's not on a bicycle trail.

BTW, I am a former Luna employee (I helped out filling orders and shipping a couple of Xmas's ago) and according to the owner, Eric Hicks, the 3k Cyclone is even more underrated than the BBSHD; which is a nominal 750w but is sold programmed to run 1500w continuous and is now being sold as a 2500w motor with Luna's controller in lieu of the Bafang component.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

ebs, I almost built a Cyclone for private property use, but didn't want to mess around trying to get a straight chainline. Please let us know how that works out for you. I noticed than Luna is selling a "bike" with that motor, but has machined new brackets for it. Also, I've had good luck just running three gears 11-17-28, 8-speed spacing, with my BBS02 since my chainline is basically always straight. Something like that might work for you.


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## portnuefpeddler (Jun 14, 2016)

I love my Rohloff, AND all the gear choices it offers. I thrash it, with a BBSHD, and at close to 2000 miles its all good. Other then the price (something I forgot about as soon as I paid for it, it's ancient history now) it is the gold standard, anything less is.......less. Diss it for its cost, don't diss it for its widest gearing range out there is my point. Cool build.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Could be totally wrong, but I thought it was possible to fashion a backpack battery and have the connection be magnetic so that it would release in a crash or whatever. Not my preference so I didn't pursue.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Yeah, I hope the chain line doesn't become a problem for me either, and we'll see how drivetrain plays out. I've never had problems with my BBS02 either, especially when I went with a clutch type derailleur and a narrow wide chain ring.



> I noticed than Luna is selling a "bike" with that motor, but has machined new brackets for it.


I didn't know they sold a bike a with this motor on it, and when you mentioned it, I went to look for it, but couldn't seem to find it. Could you please provide me with a link. I'm very interested to see that custom bracket they made.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> I love my Rohloff, AND all the gear choices it offers. I thrash it, with a BBSHD, and at close to 2000 miles its all good.


I'm glad to hear the Rohloff been such a steady workhorse. I've always liked the Rohloff; just could never get around to cashing out for it. I'm curious if anybody has tried setting it up as a midframe gearbox. Either way, I hope it continues to be good for many more miles!


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> Could be totally wrong, but I thought it was possible to fashion a backpack battery and have the connection be magnetic so that it would release in a crash or whatever. Not my preference so I didn't pursue.


I've actually thought about this, but didn't really see any kind of connectors that could handle that heavy gauge of a wire (although maybe I didn't look hard enough). I was thinking about even designing one myself, but I really want to get this build done first (travel the path of least resistance), and then go back and fine tune some things, as well as make further improvements.

If you have a link to one though, I'd definitely be interested in checking it out.


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## JRT_in_WMass (Jul 22, 2013)

eBikesmith said:


> I've actually thought about this, but didn't really see any kind of connectors that could handle that heavy gauge of a wire (although maybe I didn't look hard enough). I was thinking about even designing one myself, but I really want to get this build done first (travel the path of least resistance), and then go back and fine tune some things, as well as make further improvements.
> 
> If you have a link to one though, I'd definitely be interested in checking it out.


https://www.rosenberger.com/0_documents/de/catalogs/ba_automotive/AUTO_RoPD_Flyer_2016.pdf

Pre-terminated cable pigtails p/n C006-...
2 power pins 60 VDC at 40 A
4 signal pins 12 VDC at 2 A

Mouser sells some Rosenberger product, but might not have these in current inventory, and might take a while to get.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Finally got my frame and lowers powder coated! I'm generally pleased with the results, although I'm also glad that this will be the last time I outsource the powder coating.

Skip this paragraph if you're not interested in reading about my two cents on powder coating. Over the years, I've used different shops and learned you really get what you pay for. I'm not sure how it is in other parts of the country, but a full suspension powder coating frame, with lowers, and possibly a few other pieces like handlebars or pedals, will range anywhere from $75 through $260. That's a huge difference, and the result will show it. The issues vary from paint chipping too easily, and powder clumping, to more specific bicycle frame related issues like getting it coated in places you don't want, and masked off in places you do. I honestly don't blame the guys doing the prep work, just because I get that they do a lot of other things, and unless you know exactly how a frame comes together, it's often guesswork. The most obvious being on anything internally threaded, to areas where components should slide together with millimeter precision. Although I find rethreading easier than having to sit there with a Dremel, grinding away the powder coat so the bearings, headset cups, bottom bracket, and seat post slide in, I'd rather avoid all of that. Unfortunately, I don't really like paying on the high end of that price range either. When you have champagne taste on a beer budget, you have to do it yourself.

Everything on this frame turned out pretty nice, but they did mask off a little bit too much around the headset, and I did have to touch up some of the bearing housings. As you can see in the pictures below though, I was able to get everything to slide together. I'm really happy with how the gray ended up not being too matte or too glossy. I'm just not sure how I feel about those stickers on that one frame link.

I apologize for not taking pictures of the individual pieces. I honestly got caught up with excitement and didn't realize I hadn't taken any pictures until it was pretty much assembled. I had already even mounted the rear shock when it occurred to me I need to take some pics haha.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

ebs; it's called the Luna Super Banana and on their site for $2499 with 72V system. Not many pictures of the fabricated pieces though. Ask Eric and maybe he'll show (or sell) you what he has.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

Very nice! That frame have no room for a battery. 

Now you got thinking about moving my battery from the frame to the backpack too. 

In my case the battery is proprietary do to its mounting mechanism. But if I move it, it'll allow me to get a different battery with longer range! Plus it lightens my bike. I'll wait til the Haibike warranty expires tho! 

Those magnetic connectors are awesome!


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> https://www.rosenberger.com/0_docume...Flyer_2016.pdf
> 
> Pre-terminated cable pigtails p/n C006-...
> 2 power pins 60 VDC at 40 A
> ...


Those connectors are awesome! I called Mouser, but they didn't seem to have them. I put in a special request, so they should get back to me soon with availability and pricing. The BMS I decided to go with is a 16S, so with the Lifeo4 batteries I'm using running at 3.3v, this would work great. Hopefully they'll make ones for higher voltage setups too.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

> It's called the Luna Super Banana and on their site for $2499 with 72V system. Not many pictures of the fabricated pieces though. Ask Eric and maybe he'll show (or sell) you what he has.


Thanks for following up fos'l! I was honestly looking at all the regular looking bike frames, and didn't spot that one. Unfortunately, I looks like that bracket would only work for those ruckus style bikes though.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

ebs, you're going to hate me for this if you don't know about it because you'll stay up all night reading the thread, but here goes: endless sphere has a multi-multi page thread on the cyclone 3000 (ebikes, non-hub drives) There are some alternate mounting methods identified.


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## Seb K (Apr 21, 2009)

You want to know about trolls . Check my posts hence why I changed my profile pic  !!!


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

fos'l said:


> ebs, you're going to hate me for this if you don't know about it because you'll stay up all night reading the thread, but here goes: endless sphere has a multi-multi page thread on the cyclone 3000 (ebikes, non-hub drives) There are some alternate mounting methods identified.


Hate is a strong a word...but dang. So 72hrs later...lol. Seriously though, that was quite a read, and really gave me some ideas. I'll definitely try to incorporate some of the features I liked from some of the builds. Either way, thanks for pointing that thread out.


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

So, I received the Cyclone kit, and everything to go with the Cycle Analyst, but it occurred to me when I was doing some test fittings, that I had ordered the wrong bottom bracket size (Demo uses 83mm, and I ordered the 73mm). I figured while I wait for the bottom bracket to come in, I might as well do a full fork rebuild.









The stanchions were okay cosmetically, with one nasty scar by where the tree is set, but it shouldn't have any effect on performance since even when it bottoms out, it wouldn't go past the dust wiper. Otherwise, I picked up new bushings and a dust wiper kit, as well as some fresh fox suspension fluid.















I have two springs to choose from, and I initially thought I would go with the lighter green spring (I'm only about 180lbs), but I figured with the backpack battery, and the extra motor weight, I'll stick to the heavier one for now.









I started by pulling everything apart and just giving everything a light treatment of degreaser, and a good wipe down.





















Holy crap, the inside of the lowers was absolute garbage. There was everything from the thickest layer of dirt buildup to powder coating overspray I have ever seen. I'm not sure what killed the bushings off first; the fact that this fork hadn't seen an oil change in forever and that the dust wipers were completely baked, or the lack of good prep during the powder coating.









After pulling the old bushings, I polished the inside of the lowers, before installing the new ones. I tried to take a picture of the insides of the lowers, before and after, but I'm not sure if the camera focus really conveyed the grime.















I assembled everything back together with the new wiper kit, and a fresh oil bath, so hopefully it will feel nice on the trails.









I lightly cleaned up the old headset, fork tree, crown, and bumpers, just to reassemble it with the existing stem and a new Race Face handlebar I bought. I also threw on the old wheels just to see how the fork moves, and so far, it feels okay.









Once the correct bottom bracket comes in for the cyclone, I'll post an update on how I'm planning to put it together.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

That looks SICK! Jumping the gun a lil bit here, but what color decals are you planning?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## eBikesmith (Jan 31, 2017)

Thanks PinoyMTBer! 

I've definitely thought about the decal colors when I was considering the powder coating colors, I thought going with white decals would look nice. The Specialized and FSR decals on the frame will be white, and the Azonic rim decals will be white as well, but I want to go with the original Fox 40 decals on the lowers (the decals are gold and white), instead of the all white heritage ones.


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## PinoyMTBer (Nov 21, 2013)

eBikesmith said:


> Thanks PinoyMTBer!
> 
> I've definitely thought about the decal colors when I was considering the powder coating colors, I thought going with white decals would look nice. The Specialized and FSR decals on the frame will be white, and the Azonic rim decals will be white as well, but I want to go with the original Fox 40 decals on the lowers (the decals are gold and white), instead of the all white heritage ones.


Nice! That would look sick!


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## DO2DC (Jul 14, 2017)

Any update on the project....would love to see a pix of the motor placement


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## Phantastic79 (Apr 5, 2017)

Awesome build brotha.

I have a SC V10c mini cyclone with a backpack battery. The controller is smaller and brackets much cleaner. Though the motor not as strong as a cyclone, but has plenty of power.

I have it routed through the seat and use spark resistant xt90 connectors. They hold very well and break off easily if you fall.

This is an important tip. Get a blackline Evoc backpack. Or equivalent. It comes with a back protector and has a belt type strap that keeps the backpack on your back preventing it from flopping around like a normal backpack. Getting those 10+ pounds off your bike and onto a pack is night and day for anyone who is thinking about going this route. Suspension feels so much better.

2012 eV10


http://imgur.com/jJDJb


I put the controller under the bottom bracket and made a custom chainwheel assembly. I dont like the steel chainwheel that comes with the cyclone. Also....you should get the HD freewheel. The stock one sucks and your drive chainwheel will start having a lot of play after a few hard rides.

As far as drive train goes, my mini cyclone does. It have as much torque as my 3k cyclone. This is kind of a good thing. With clcline at 2k watts (52v batt) I would snap a chain or kill my hub paws if I WOT in high gear. But the motor is very responses and bike could wheelie like a motorcycle. I've just about killed the rear hub which is hard to find(165mm) so I don't ride that bike much anymore. My V10 hub seems to be much more durable, but I'm not putting as much power through it.

I mounted the controller under the BB and covered most words with a 3d printed part. I also made a 3d printed mounting bracket piece that keeps the motor from crushing my carbon frame. It's hidden between the frame and main motor.

3d printed frame protector 2


http://imgur.com/Cjc4j


3d printed frame protector


http://imgur.com/CHMM9


I didn't bother with the CA or any type of display. I don't really need it and can look at the display on my battery periodically if I need to know how much capacity is left. This makes the whole bike much cleaner and the only extra wires you see is the batt wire and throttle wire.

Go luck on your build. Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.


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## outlaws (Aug 26, 2008)

Any updates???


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## ddockray (May 6, 2009)

Cool. I've been watching all the DH e-bike builds for years, but with all the capabilities of the levo, why not just put a fox 40 on it and ride? 
Anyone done that yet?


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## Phantastic79 (Apr 5, 2017)

ddockray said:


> Cool. I've been watching all the DH e-bike builds for years, but with all the capabilities of the levo, why not just put a fox 40 on it and ride?
> Anyone done that yet?


Yep


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## ddockray (May 6, 2009)

Phantastic79 said:


> Yep


I just put a 36 on my new Levo and I'm going to see who cries first,
me or the bike.


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