# Kindernay IGH



## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Sent off a e-mail to Kindernay last Sun.; our very own Espen gave the reply today. 

Saving further info until Eurobike; about two weeks from now, so get your questions ready!

I, for one, am interested in just what are the details that make up the differences between the Kindernay and the Rohloff. The very obvious ones give it a jump at the starting line over the Rohloff. 

To be realistic, I expect much of the same hash/over about drag etc. If it proves out that they are a wash on that point...who cares.

Feel free to post up any of your thoughts on the upcoming new IGH; and give Espen a heads up for Eurobike.


----------



## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

*More Info...*

This is the best additional info I have seen yet.

The Kindernay XIV Hub: A 14 Speed Internally Geared Rohloff Competitor? - CyclingAbout

Understand that there is/will be a boost version av. also.


----------



## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

Another thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/internal-gear-hubs/new-light-weight-internal-gear-hub-kindernay-1025896.html

I am particularly interested in how fast you can change it between wheels.

By now I would also take pinion into consideration because of cheap wheels which allows you to have wheelsets for every purpose: strong for loaded touring, light and fast for commuting, knobbed tires for mtb-ing.

Furthermore I am reluctant to spend so much money on a new unproven product. Would like to know how much goodwill/warranty they offer in case of any issues, that are very likely to occur with a new product.


----------



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm sure the Kindernay is a good hub and I'm glad there are companies constantly innovating. With that said, there's not enough of a difference between the Kindernay and the Rohloff to tempt me to try it; not for $1200 which is about what I paid for my Rohloff....which works perfectly and has a stunning range of gears with my setup. 

Any limitations of the Rohloff are going to be mirrored in the Kindernay which will have the same drag as the Rohloff. And I like the grip shifter and am not quite sure why everybody wants trigger shifters all the time. 

Maybe being able to switch wheels is a good feature but it is also a mechanical interface that will be prone to wear, noises, and malfunctions.

For $1200 I want a huge improvement or a tangible difference...like the Lauf fork, 29ers, or 1x11 drivetrains.


----------



## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Ailuropoda said:


> Maybe being able to switch wheels is a good feature but it is also a mechanical interface that will be prone to wear, noises, and malfunctions.
> 
> For $1200 I want a huge improvement or a tangible difference...like the Lauf fork, 29ers, or 1x11 drivetrains.


I think it depends on your use case. For me, the main reason I haven't even considered saving up for a Rohloff is that I like having a couple of wheelsets for my bike. I currently have two, and have a couple more is planning. I'm sure not buying 4 1K+ hubs for one bike. A hub that easily swaps between wheels is a game-changer to me. Of course it's still more expensive than I'm comfortable with, but if it comes out with some positive reviews, I may have to start saving my pennies. On the other hand, I've been pretty happy with my Alfine 8. So you figure I can get two more of those hubs, plus all the other wheel parts, and still be ahead, price-wise. Plus, swapping the hub means that it becomes the weak point. Right now if I were to have a hub malfunction, I'd throw in the other wheelset while I dealt with the bad hub. If my Kindernay has an issue, then all the wheels I build to use with it will be useless.

So, yeah, Rohloff and Kindernay have some appeal, and the modular aspect of Kindernay gives it an advantage, but it's five times the price of my current hub for less than double the gears, so it's hard to justify.


----------



## SADDLE TRAMP (Aug 26, 2010)

Espen...?

I realize that some info is still drifting in from Eurobike; but it doesn't look very promising for further info forthcoming.

Most of the stated concerns seem to be around the drive side of the switch cage being open to a potential source of movement. The longer the cage the more concern. A 197 dropout in a salt environment, over time, becomes a real concern?

Any suggestions as to how that might be mitigated? 

Offhand, apply hot (?) paraffin wax to both mating surfaces, then 'seal' with a waterproof grease, or...FLEX SEAL waterproof tape (as seen on TV) after mounting? Given the other maintenance free aspects, doing this doesn't seem to be too much to do, IF it proved to be effective. 

BTW, is the hub shell clear hard anodized, or just polished?

If you can put forth the procedures/results of your own testing, and some additional info on the inner workings of the hub, individual gear reductions, etc, it would be of interest.

Thank you for anything you can provide.

EDIT: I see that Rohloff has improved their site with more technical info, so perhaps they have taken notice?


----------



## Espen W (Feb 4, 2012)

SADDLE TRAMP said:


> Most of the stated concerns seem to be around the drive side of the switch cage being open to a potential source of movement. The longer the cage the more concern. A 197 dropout in a salt environment, over time, becomes a real concern?
> 
> BTW, is the hub shell clear hard anodized, or just polished?
> 
> ...


Salt/corrosion is not a problem with the SWAP shell setup (nor any other issues at all with the shell or shell/hub interface). The internal design has seen some tuning issues during development, of course, so that has been and is still being fine tuned on the beta units.
The beta test hubs (including the 197mm ones) have seen massive amounts of test miles on the streets of Oslo (Norway) and they are absolutely drenched in salt from late October through early May. They run the salt trucks virtually every single day, regardless of conditions. It sucks, but the upside is that it creates a great test environment, with the mercury and other nasty stuff that they mix into the road salt.

Hub shell is (clear) anodized.

I can't give away too much tech info as some is still patent pending, but part of the patented stuff is the ability to achieve 14 speeds with fewer sun and planetary gears than other makes, in addition to a ''pawl less'' design, ie. torque is transferred via axial clutches, not pawls, increasing the ability to withstand torque.

The most important gear ratios:
1st gear: 0.27
11th gear: 1.0 (1:1)
14th gear: 1.48


----------



## El_Topo (Jul 26, 2018)

Almost two years later - are end users already using it or is it still the late beta stage?
I wasn't able to find any reviews or new videos about it. If it delivers what it promises to be it should be a very interesting piece of kit.

The questions likely can only be ansered by Espen and Kindernay staff but I thought others might be interested about the answers as well so I posted in the forums instead of sending an email to Kindernay directly.


Is the current price final or a discounted for pre-order price?
What is the exact chainline for the 197mm cage and how far can you be off from that on the chainring without causing problems?
What is the price for a "kindernay xiv gear system" without the IGH so one can outfit a second bike at lower cost?
Can you make a video on how to swap the hub between two bikes and how long it takes?
When will the 177mm cage come out approximately?
Will there be a single shifter for up and down? I would prefer that over the two actuators currently offered.

Some of the answers to the questions above might be good to be placed in the FAQ so other will not have a hard time finding them.

TIA!


----------



## high_desert_mud (Jul 22, 2017)

bump ... hoping for current feedback as well.


----------



## high_desert_mud (Jul 22, 2017)

anyone have recent feedback on the kindernay? I'm especially interested as it would let me swap my 80mm summer (hehe) rims with with my 100mm winter snowshoe 2xl's ... love rohloff concept, but definitely can't get a igh per wheelset; love the Pinion concept but only comes on high-end bikes (not that +1200 will make for a cheap bike ... but total cost still easily < $3k)


----------

