# Riding a hardtail at blue Mountain bike park



## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

I already know most people are going to suggest riding this park with a FS but still wanted to get everyone's feedback on if they ever tried a hardtail there. If so how they made out and if they would or have done it again. 

I'm not against renting a FS for the day either though. Only problem is the birds they have there aren't that great plus I feel they charge a little too much. I live in South jersey and we found a bike shop that rents out Scott and trek FS bikes for 35, it's just it's an hour out of the way plus a trip back there the next day. 

I currently own a trek x-caliber 6 with maxxis high Roller 2s in 3.0 tires on it. My disc breaks work great and my wheels are slightly upgraded from stock. Haven't gotten around to upgrading the forks yet, which I would consider to be the bikes only downfall for an entry level mtb. 

I rode Burke mountain in Vermont a few weeks ago on it and felt fine, but I know from videos and word of mouth blue is considerably worse when it comes to rocks and rough terrain. 

So just looking for any input anyone might have... 

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## Uncle Six Pack (Aug 29, 2004)

I would not think any hardtail would be pleasant at Blue. You could ride nearly everything there if you have the skills, but even the easy trails are rocky and I think the hardtail would just beat you up over the course of the day.

They have Glorys there, don't they. As long as the tires hold air and the brakes work, I'd rather ride one of them than a HT.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

Pad up and go for it. If it sucks, you'll know for the future.

I'm sure you could rent halfway into the day if you're not having a good time on the ht.


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

Kkon18 said:


> Haven't gotten around to upgrading the forks yet, which I would consider to be the bikes only downfall for an entry level mtb.


Nope, pretty much every part is an equal 'downfall' on an mtb.


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## tim_from_PA (Dec 17, 2012)

Kkon18 said:


> I know from videos and word of mouth blue is considerably worse when it comes to rocks and rough terrain.


You mean considerably better.

Rent and you'll have a much better day. Also, you'll more than likely break something on your hardtail. I have seen people on hardtails, it is possible, but you will be limited to very few trails.

Where are you coming from? there are other places that rent bikes too. Loweriders in Downingtown, PA has (last I checked) a spec. status for rental. there are also a few very good shops around Allentown that are worth checking into.


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## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

tim_from_PA said:


> You mean considerably better.
> 
> Rent and you'll have a much better day. Also, you'll more than likely break something on your hardtail. I have seen people on hardtails, it is possible, but you will be limited to very few trails.
> 
> Where are you coming from? there are other places that rent bikes too. Loweriders in Downingtown, PA has (last I checked) a spec. status for rental. there are also a few very good shops around Allentown that are worth checking into.


I'll be coming from South jersey. I'll be heading to philly first to pick up a buddy of mine. Right now the plan is to ride into deleware and rent a bike from a place there. They rent 29er and 27.5 Scotts and 29er treks. Problem is they will be closed by the time we get back if we stay a full day at blue, and we most likely will. But it is what it is. They're a little cheaper than renting up at blue too.

I went on a ride yesterday with my bike and my forks are starting to bottom out in places where it never used too. It's the cheap sr suntour. Idk if there's anything that can be done to fix that or I'll just wait until next season and upgrade like I was planning on anyway. I think riding it at Burke was a little too much for a very low end fork so I'm sure now blue wouldn't be good for it at all...

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## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

tim_from_PA said:


> You mean considerably better.
> 
> Rent and you'll have a much better day. Also, you'll more than likely break something on your hardtail. I have seen people on hardtails, it is possible, but you will be limited to very few trails.
> 
> Where are you coming from? there are other places that rent bikes too. Loweriders in Downingtown, PA has (last I checked) a spec. status for rental. there are also a few very good shops around Allentown that are worth checking into.


Do you know the name of the place that rents in Allentown though? Worth looking into at least as we'll ride right through there...

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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Rent at Blue. Seriously. Their rentals are full on DH bikes. I can almost guarantee you that those shop rental bikes aren't DH bikes, but rather XC bikes. I can't imagine a shop with no DH in the vicinity offering rental DH bikes. The last time I saw Blues rentals, they looked brand new (2 years ago) but I'm pretty sure that they sell them at the end of the year and upgrade every year. 

Don't pull in on a Harley Sportster and expect to have fun at the motocross track. Ya know? 

I can guarantee that you'll have more fun and see what the sport is about with a DH rental and appropriate gear. It WILL change the way you ride XC and it will be confidence inspiring! Wrecks won't hurt with body armor and a lot less likely to happen on a DH bike! 

Instead of running your XC tires that are single ply, the DH tires are dual ply and a lot tougher. So are the rims. 
The geometry and build of a DH bike is different too. It's not only the HT angle but the travel, reach and stack, brakes, gears, etc... 

I see people all the time bring XC bikes to DH parks, but it's always like "I don't need a DH bike to ride here. I can handle some pretty advanced trails on my bike.". What they don't realize is that a DH bike would make those trails really fast and tame them down and on a DH bike they could really step up to that next level of riding. 

Hope this persuades you to rent a DH bike for the day and have fun! Ttyl, Fahn


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## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

LarryFahn said:


> Rent at Blue. Seriously. Their rentals are full on DH bikes. I can almost guarantee you that those shop rental bikes aren't DH bikes, but rather XC bikes. I can't imagine a shop with no DH in the vicinity offering rental DH bikes. The last time I saw Blues rentals, they looked brand new (2 years ago) but I'm pretty sure that they sell them at the end of the year and upgrade every year.
> 
> Don't pull in on a Harley Sportster and expect to have fun at the motocross track. Ya know?
> 
> ...


We have 3 different bikes lined up from a place in del. A Scott spark 29er, Scott spark 27.5 and a trek fuel 29er. All full suspension bikes. I don't think they're really considered a DH bike but gotta be considerably better than our hard tails. It's a little cheaper than renting at blue and my one buddy is interested in buying one of three bikes were renting so he wants to try them out too. Hopefully these bikes will do the job for us...

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## tim_from_PA (Dec 17, 2012)

I agree with LarryFahn that renting at Blue is definitely your best bet. I just suggested Loweriders since they have a park bike for rental, or had one in the past. 

The bikes you are looking into renting are still on the XC/trail side of things. Just because they have rear suspension doesn't mean they are going to act like a DH bike. Heck, my 160mm AM bike is significantly different than my DH bike. Besides, if you rent at Blue you will be able to spend more time there (less travel time and less fatigue)


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## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

tim_from_PA said:


> I agree with LarryFahn that renting at Blue is definitely your best bet. I just suggested Loweriders since they have a park bike for rental, or had one in the past.
> 
> The bikes you are looking into renting are still on the XC/trail side of things. Just because they have rear suspension doesn't mean they are going to act like a DH bike. Heck, my 160mm AM bike is significantly different than my DH bike. Besides, if you rent at Blue you will be able to spend more time there (less travel time and less fatigue)


I'm a little concerned about the comfort level as well. The last time I tried riding a trek fuel after riding my x-caliber I felt extremely uncomfortable. I'm imagining a downhill bike I such more different from even that.

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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

It would be a mistake to rent those short travel XC race bikes and bring them to a DH resort. Either go the cheap route and see what it's like to ride DH trails on your XC hardtail or throw down the cash for the real experience with DH bikes, full faces, and armor. The bikes you're looking at renting won't be much etter or more fun than the one you own.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

So since um well this is about Blue and bikes kind of. Planning to go up in a few weeks and take my 160mm Rune. This isn't something I'm going to regret is it? Word is this is a awesome bike park bike I've just never taken it to a bike park. Its got decent brake and wheels on it and I was going to toss a DH DHF Supertacky on front and a DH Maxxpro HR in back since I have them and set it up slack.


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## CarolinaPanthers (Feb 22, 2013)

I think a Rune would be a sweet bike for Blue. I took my Process 153 there for the enduro race in June and I had a great time, first time there. A DH bike might have been a little better, and definitely more comfortable in a few sections but I didn't feel terribly underbiked. We hit a most of the trails but I don't think we hit the bigger freeride line so I can't speak to that. The trails we did hit were pretty loose and steep, definitely some chunk but no real superchunk where I was wishing for a dh rig.

Do take care in the Ewok Village jump line. Some of the lips are pretty steep and I suck at jumping, so I found it super easy overshoot the landings, but then again I came into one of the jumps entirely too hot. And to emphasize, I am not a good jumper. YMMV

There is a thread in the PA forum about blue and Bear has some killer tips about Blue terrain/layout. Super fun park


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## warimono (Nov 23, 2010)

Everybody in this thread has suggested you rent the DH bike. Sure a FS XC bike will be better than the hard tail with a Sontour fork, but it will still not be as enjoyable of an experience as the DH bike. I have ridden 120-140mm trail bikes at Angelfire in NM and braking bumps suck with less travel, the lack of stiffness can be felt in the berms and jump lips, and the steeper head angle make negotiation steep rock gardens all the more difficult. Also, what if you get into something too deep you can't handle on the XC bike and break the rental? It's much harder to break a DH bike and parks often have damage waivers for a few more bucks. Ride it hard, put it away dirty, and let somebody else deal with cleaning it.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

CarolinaPanthers said:


> I think a Rune would be a sweet bike for Blue. I took my Process 153 there for the enduro race in June and I had a great time, first time there. A DH bike might have been a little better, and definitely more comfortable in a few sections but I didn't feel terribly underbiked. We hit a most of the trails but I don't think we hit the bigger freeride line so I can't speak to that. The trails we did hit were pretty loose and steep, definitely some chunk but no real superchunk where I was wishing for a dh rig.
> 
> Do take care in the Ewok Village jump line. Some of the lips are pretty steep and I suck at jumping, so I found it super easy overshoot the landings, but then again I came into one of the jumps entirely too hot. And to emphasize, I am not a good jumper. YMMV
> 
> There is a thread in the PA forum about blue and Bear has some killer tips about Blue terrain/layout. Super fun park


Right on, I'll likely take it a bit easy at first to figure the place out some. I don't mind riding steep stuff, chunk or drop's I just never really rode a lift up to do it.

I found that thread in the PA section. Sucks about the collar bone, I've broken mine twice. Good info on that jump line though :thumbsup:


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## tim_from_PA (Dec 17, 2012)

I think it's the third jump in Ewok village, you'll have to tap your brakes or you'll overshoot. Other than that, the rest are decent. If you hit Empire, don't brake after the wooden bridge into the huge left hand berm, trust me. You'll be going so fast you'll think you have to brake, but don't.

Also, a rune will be good for Blue, just not best obviously. You'll still have a great time and have to hold back only a little.


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## jnicosia (Aug 2, 2013)

Let me put an end to I'll bring My XC or trailbike. I've done it and yea it's ok but for $99 including lift ticket and $10 for the insurance it's a no brainer to rent the Glory 27.5 at Blue. Please don't bring your XC trail bikes. you will have more fun and the extra suspension travel will give you a plush riding experience that you can endure all day.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

I wouldn't be concerned about comfort, fatigue, or fun on the hard tail. Just safety! I wouldn't trust an entry level XC fork at the lifts. Also probably quick release skewers on the thing...it's a bad idea.

Also consider the extra fuel in the cost of renting off site, and a blown day if the bike fails. Call ahead and reserve a bike. They'll have it set for your weight when you show up. Bring your own pedals if you like. If something goes wrong you'll be in and out in no time.

Oh , and have a good time.


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## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

MOJO K said:


> I wouldn't be concerned about comfort, fatigue, or fun on the hard tail. Just safety! I wouldn't trust an entry level XC fork at the lifts. Also probably quick release skewers on the thing...it's a bad idea.
> 
> Also consider the extra fuel in the cost of renting off site, and a blown day if the bike fails. Call ahead and reserve a bike. They'll have it set for your weight when you show up. Bring your own pedals if you like. If something goes wrong you'll be in and out in no time.
> 
> Oh , and have a good time.


This whole post has been pretty informative. When I do get to go there I'll be sure to rent a bike from there. Unfortunately blue Mountain is apparently closed this weekend due to some type of mudrunner thing going on. We're taking our trip up to mountain Creek instead. We're still renting bikes from a shop though for now. From what I've seen though, mountain Creek compared to blue looks a lot more smooth on most of the trails so hopefully just having a full suspension xc bike will be good enough for the day. Extra money is def an issue in my budget right now and renting a bike at mountain Creek is 110 alone without the lift ticket. Saving a few bucks to me this time around is whats a little more important right now.

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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

What day are you going to ride Creek? I'll be there Sunday if you'd like a tour. Pm me if interested. Ttyl, Fahn


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## Kkon18 (Aug 21, 2014)

LarryFahn said:


> What day are you going to ride Creek? I'll be there Sunday if you'd like a tour. Pm me if interested. Ttyl, Fahn


We'll be there sat. Weather is questionable but I don't have another weekend for a while to try this. I'm not sure what pm means. I just started messing around in these forums. We'll be the three crazy people apparently riding two Scott sparks and a trek fuel. 
Some dude in another just murdered me for asking a question and taking them bikes.

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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Pm- private message. 

At Creek you'll be OK on a handful of trails. Green horn, Alpine, domboo, indy, and Breakout.

Ps. If the Dh trails are too much, they also do XC up top too.


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## Bullyveldt (Jul 6, 2015)

I know this thread is a week old but i'l chime in with my experience from getting back from Blue today.

Me: Cylsdale, 280lbs, wearing normal cycling helmet, no protective gear
Bike: 2011 Giant Trance, with 5 inchs travel, 9mm QR wheels, upgraded front spring in fork for my weight. Lowered seat for the downhill

I have been eyeing going to Blue and finally drove up and did it. My bike was able to tackle the green and blue trails, and i did Showcase twice. Holy crap, that was something! No what i noticed? no hardtails anywhere. All full downhill bikes. I was the odd man out and i stuck out. Did I have a blast? HELL YEAH!! First time trying something like that. Was riding with a guy who rented, we rode together for a good chuck of the day. He used a full suspension CCM candain tire bike last time, and broke the rear axle. He said it was night and day between them. I compared my bike to the full DH bikes, and the difference is complete. My bike weighs 30 lbs, his bike weighed 40. Everything is stiffer, soaks the bumps. My 5 inch of travel still shook the crap out of my bike. I don't think a hardtail would be safe, mine was on the edge for safety. I'll use better gear next time and may rent, or may use my bike again. But for the full Blue experience, i am sure you need a proper DH bike. If you take an AM 160 travel bike, you'll be able to ride most of the trails and still have a blast tho.

Thats my experience from today. Going to compile a youtube video from my camera footage from the day. So much fun!!

Time to replace my brake pads....


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Ha, so I was there today as well. The Rune(160m AM bike) did just fine there, I just tossed some DH tires I had on it and softened it up a bit. I did have to put a shifter cable on it in the lot though cause something hit the cable and cut it. We saw a group on HT's, a father and 2 kids with bloody knees. Seen them out there a few times, I saw a bunch of XC/am type bikes as well and people wearing XC helmets.

I don't now what all trails we ran. I know I hit everything to the right(going up) of the lift and the stuff on the bottom half that goes under the lift. Some of them like 20 I know we ran but don't know the name. Does anyone know people taking pics on the side of the trail post them anywhere?


Ran into tim_from_pa in the parking lot as well, nice meeting you! I took it easy through Ewok a few times before I hit it fast. By then I had it figured out pretty well. 

Oh and huge props to the one guy wearing a pack that had a pump with him. My friend cut a tire and we were right in the middle of the mountain. We got enough air in it to make it down without walking at all:thumbsup:


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## J-Ha (Jul 21, 2010)

dirtrider76 said:


> Does anyone know people taking pics on the side of the trail post them anywhere?


I believe this is the photographer that was shooting at Blue this past weekend:
Simply Adventurous - Home
https://www.facebook.com/simplyadventurous


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## Jonezed7 (Mar 26, 2013)

I was there on Saturday and I believe I saw 2 people on hardtails.


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## Bullyveldt (Jul 6, 2015)

*Damage Report*

Brakes!

So I took today to clean the bike, inspect bearing and wheels etc. Drivetrain survived excellent, XT stuff, and the front fork, head bearings, held up great. I did do a rebuild of the front fork the day before I went, new oil and cleaned parts with a new heavy spring for my big self.

Brakes on the other hand are Shimano 455's with 180mm front rotor and 160mm rear. The result of trying to stop a 280lbs guy, 30 lb bike, and 6 pounds of gear(316 total!!!) was a bit much. I never experienced perceptible brake fade, but i did see a lot of brake dust on my white bike. Also the brake rotors showed obvious signs of overheating. when looking at the rotor at the thin edge, the rear rotor has turned a copper color, and the arms which hold the attachment centre to the swept area also have turned a copper color which fades to silver as it moves away from the swept area. No signs of warp. Also the pads have been reduced in thickness a noticeable amount. The edges near the bottom of the swept area also have small chips taken out, no bigger then 1 mm, but still noticeable.

Surprisingly they held up better than I expected after my first run. I was worried I would have experienced brake fade, but never did.

If one was to take a hardtail keep in mind you will be on your brakes a lot to reduce speed due to the nature of the trail, and you will heat them up a lot. My experience. I'll be upgrading to SLX brakes.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Bully, probably just need to convert to bigger rotors and new pads.


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## Bullyveldt (Jul 6, 2015)

MOJO

Yeah I was looking and the front rotor is fine, so maybe a 180 rear rotor would be all thats needed, but SLX will accept the finned pads and modulation should be better on the bike when on the trails.

As an aside, 20 mins ago, I just got rid of the triple front crank and alivio shifter/mech to a double deore crank ,24-38, and XT shifter/mech. Looking forward to testing that out soon


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