# Aspherical and XML helmet light attempt



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have had these Aspherical lense`s in the parts drawer for nearly 2 years now I refound them during a tidy up .

so this is the start of what I hope to be a super throwing helmet light










Yes I know there may be comments 










Following the successful mixture of 2 xmls and 2 xpgs on my bar light 
this is the config for this light 
XMLs behind the Aspheric lenses and xpgs for some flood .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

hahahahahaha!! thats crazy man, i love it :thumbsup: 
wow, they`re some serious lenses


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

first 'comment"

Isn't the slot running the wrong way? Surely it would be better in a vertical direction


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Sweet Chris, it seems you have achieved what Emu's avatar and my bike stand would look like from the front.  Almost erotic art, some see eyes and a mouth, i see something else


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Have you played to work out the best distance from the LED to mount the aspheric or is that going to be part of the experiment


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

You've got to be kiddin' me


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Troutie have you tried putting some diffuser material over a bit of the aspheric to provide some flood?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I found 15mm from the surface that the led sits on gives you a perfect pencil beam..but way to tight for anything but a dive light.. I'd guess at the beam being about 4 degrees.
I'd say 10-12mm from the surface that the led sits on to the bottom of the aspherics should be good for a helmet light..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

How about making it adjustable via a thread on the front bezel. Tight beam for fast downhills and flood beam for technical ascents, all by a simple 1/2 to full turn twist?


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

My new favorite light design.:arf:


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)




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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> first 'comment"
> 
> Isn't the slot running the wrong way? Surely it would be better in a vertical direction


tried that but not enough room for the 2 x 10 mm optics

I have played about with one but nothing definite yet as to focus and they may each get a different focus to overlap the beams a little .

Yes Brad I did think about nipping the waist in a tad 
the on the fly adjustable is beyond my abilities and attention span .

Jay I am approx 10 mm above the led dome at the moment so can take them down a bit at a time if needed


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## kadikater (Oct 26, 2008)

cool!


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

brad72 said:


> i see something else


I see bottle bottom glasses  I can't remember the name of the show (Coronation St? <shudder>) but there was a guy on TV with glasses like that..

Troutie, I think you should just skip LED lights and go for nightvision goggles.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Update on the as yet no name light








#


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Update on the as yet no name light
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you been having lessons on how to machine things?
Id be interested to hear how you went about this one..has to be the best one so far:thumbsup:

All you need is a front cover now..

Chris which bolts are you using to hold the leds down? M2 x 6mm button heads? if so how high do the heads sit?
https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/M2-x-6-STAIN..._Material_Nails_Fixing_MJ&hash=item255282c541


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Have you been having lessons on how to machine things?
> Id be interested to hear how you went about this one..has to be the best one so far:thumbsup:
> 
> All you need is a front cover now..
> ...


No lessons and probably every machinist that ever lived will be turning in their graves at some of my methods .
Lathe and Mill abuse to be sure.

the pics dont show the mistakes made like holes that went too deep or in the wrong place .

Forgot to take photos :madman: during the lengthy machining / butchering .

need to make a top with the switch in 
wont be a front cover asphericals will be glued in with the infamous serious glue .
when I fine tune the beam at the moment I seem to have a perfect die projected so may be a bit too narrow just waiting for some glue to set before wiring it to the h6flex ..

what I may try is leave one as it is and only defocus the other so the Xpgs will handle the near ground and one for the mid the other max distance .

After spending 2 days butchering this piece of ali I wont be doing another one in a hurry .

seeing as there are no pics this is a brief rundown of opps.

after a good workout hacksawing a 90 mm length of 50 mm square bar off 
and then realising I had no way to fix it to my tiny rotary table so machine abuse no one

Fit it in the 4 jaw chuck in the lathe to machine the 2 big holes this was fun and I had to do it on a slow speed as the bit was so inbalanced I did not want to shake the old girl to death this was repeated for the other hole .

Then into the mill for a bit of work designing on the fly with repeated plan changes as this progressed.
space suddenly looked very tight to fit in the H6Flex I was just going to mill a square hole but that would have cut into the led cavity so the only option was to go round .

Que some more Lathe abuse as it just fit in the 4 jaw for some more shake rattle and make swarfe.

With all the cavities now done it was still a chunky lump so it needed a diet I was goint to go mega minimal but reminded myself that my helmet was not aluminium like the bars so no good heatsinking to be had there .

next came some mill abuse with a 4 mm round nosed mill to try and make fins this took the most time today as round nosed mills dont cut just as well as flat ones .

when I had reached the deepest I could go with the mills I foolishley thought to save some more weight I would drill holes through the bits I could not get the mill to reach this went not too bad until 99 % of the way through the first hole the 4 mm drill bit snapped .

Bugger took me an hour to get the bit out of the hole 
Repeat for another 3 times and I now have 4 broken 4 mm drillbits and 2 unfinished holes .
Wont do that again .

Thats about it up to the state it is in in the pics .

Jay The bolts I used for the stars are M3 button heads and they stand proud of the star by 1.75 mm


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> No lessons and probably every machinist that ever lived will be turning in their graves at some of my methods .
> Lathe and Mill abuse to be sure.
> 
> the pics dont show the mistakes made like holes that went too deep or in the wrong place .
> ...


Hats of to you Chris, I think it looks really good:thumbsup: 
Wish i had room for a lathe..
As for snapping drill bits, I always seem to snap the black ones from homebase they are crap. Mrs putt a load in my xmas stocking instead of socks 
The Gold jobber bits are pretty tuff, I got a load of 2mm and they have lasted well..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:lol: :lol: :lol: well that worked out a whole lot better than expected still got some fine tuning 
but as a helmet light its Bonkers I need to find a longer trail for these sort of beam shots

low is good enough for most trails










medium is stupid bright










and High is just crazy










there are some rings in the close up part more noticable on low but I can live with those 
I suspect they are from reflections in the led cavity so may paint the inside

another crazy thing is on medium which is level 3 it is drawing less than half an amp so on that reckoning it should run for 5 hours from a 2.6 amp hour battery

or just over 1 hour if on full as it draws 2.1 amps



















one other thing which is a spin off of my ham fistedness is I said I had drilled 2 holes in the wrong place well you can see them when the light is on from the back so I intend to now drill them a bit larger and fill with red epoxy for a tail light .


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow Chris, that is a great little light. Love the way the hound has a ghost walking with it, spooooky.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Well done Troutie, very nice design.

I do my pockets just the same way in the four jaw chuck. Try putting a brass counter weight between light body and one of the jaws to stop the vibration. It works great.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

Love it! 

Got a name for it yet?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> Love it!
> 
> Got a name for it yet?


Hi Ahorton welcome aboard 
no name as yet but got to say thanks to you for the lenses 
do you have any still in stock as there will be a MK 2 version and also a bar one in the future .plus my riding mates are gonna hate me as I can now annoy them from further back.

YetiBetty. good idea but I was on the last bit of thread on the jaws


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Chris, that looks fantastic, well done.
As for a name, what about "Elle" as in " The Body"?

On my smart phone so can't link in what, sorry, who I am referring to but if you Google those 2 names I'm sure you'll find a suitable pic that will explain.

Very nice looking light. How heavy is it?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Wow Chris, that is a great little light. Love the way the hound has a ghost walking with it, spooooky.


Cheers Brad72 not so little I am afraid and near to 200 grams but a heap better than I expected If you want a long range light then Ahortons lenses are great

check out Ahortons headlight here
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?287292-My-custom-headlamp-Version-2

which I have got to admit did spark the idea for this light ( I hope you dont mind Ash )

been doing a bit of measuring and the top of the led dome is about 9 mm from the bottom of the lense so wondering if it should go nearer

Stu not too sure it has any erotic looks now 
something like this should work for your videoing escapades


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: Got it Spider eyes MK2 as just installed glow paint


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

NICE! 

What are your thoughts on a single XML+ Aspeheric and how it would throw? It would be significantly lighter for helmet mounting but would it have enough punch?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ozlongboarder said:


> NICE!
> 
> What are your thoughts on a single XML+ Aspeheric and how it would throw? It would be significantly lighter for helmet mounting but would it have enough punch?


It would certainly throw well but with out much spill which is why I included the 2 XPGs in the mix 
difficult to use 1 xml and 1 xpg if you want to use the full 3 amps


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

LED Driver , how did you wire it ?
do you have 2 drivers ?

Still looking for a smaller driver, the H6flex is huge, need about 2A.


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## jbflyfshr (Jul 24, 2006)

looks like a 'Johnny 5' to me but that is just an American movie right?

Full specs like Schultz said please. Looks a cracker!

JB


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

rschultz101 said:


> LED Driver , how did you wire it ?


Picture 1 in post 15 tells you that it is a single driver running a series string like this...

XML, parallelled XPGs, XML


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

jbflyfshr said:


> looks like a 'Johnny 5' to me but that is just an American movie right?
> 
> Full specs like Schultz said please. Looks a cracker!
> 
> JB


Full specs are

2 XML 2S leds with 30 mm aspheric lenses from Ahorton on CPF bought ages ago I now think he has similar but in 27 mm dia .

2 XPG leds with the carclo narrow 10 mm sq optics to fill in the flood bit .

all the leds are wired to a H6flex @ 3 amps with the 2 xpgs wired as a parallel string and in series with the 2 xmls so they get half the amps the xmls get .

housing is hewn from a block of aluminium and without leaving space for the switch so that has been bodged with a small Mom switch from Apem and glued to the housing using a polyurathane glue called bostik serious glue which is also used to glue in the glass asphericals

driving the whole setup is a 15 volt Li ION battery pack from www.mtbbatteries.co.uk

it would have been nice to have 2 drivers so as to use the narrow beam on its own but that just added cost and complexity .

glow paint from Glow-inc


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Full specs are
> 
> 2 XML 2S leds with 30 mm aspheric lenses from Ahorton on CPF bought ages ago I now think he has similar but in 27 mm dia .
> 
> ...


Chris can you not put the switch in the driver cover like i do?
Or being a helmet light easy to knock up a little housing out of delrin for an in line switch..
I think i might have a few of these in the draw, could mill the legs off and use it as an inline?


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Looks kind'a like some Aztec skull Indiana Jones would be interested in:thumbsup: Impressive light output too.

Goldigger, do you have more info on that remote switch - is it waterproof?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

HuffyPuffy said:


> Looks kind'a like some Aztec skull Indiana Jones would be interested in:thumbsup: Impressive light output too.
> 
> Goldigger, do you have more info on that remote switch - is it waterproof?


The momontary switches i put in them are IP67 so all thats needed is a few drops of silicone when assembling them, just to cover the solder tabs..


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Chris, what's the total vF on that setup at 2.8A? I'm thinking with the h6flex only needing 1v over vf and the relatively low vf of the leds we might be able to get away with a 3 s xml 2 p xpg setup from our 14,8v batteries.

I think that would be where the peeing contest would end for me


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Chris can you not put the switch in the driver cover like i do?
> Or being a helmet light easy to knock up a little housing out of delrin for an in line switch..
> I think i might have a few of these in the draw, could mill the legs off and use it as an inline?


You could be a hand model GD


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> The momontary switches i put in them are IP67 so all thats needed is a few drops of silicone when assembling them, just to cover the solder tabs..


Yes I have a few of those Jay used one on this light just sat it in the little hole at the front of the case with some glue

did think about the inline option but had the wired intalled before I realised it needed the switch .
I am happy with it for my own use but would build in a more elegant solution if I do another one .I do have 4 of the lenses left :devil:

Stu from memory the vf was about 10 volts at 3 amps

here is a daylight shot which only shows the beam from the eyes










it was 1 metre square @ 6 metres distance


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## Mike E. (Jan 5, 2004)

It must be named: Bubbles.

Great looking light.


Mike


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Had to try the barn shots as the only place handy where I could get a good distance to give it a whirl .
low I am afraid didnt make it to the barn at 160 metres so only got medium and high


















went out to 200 metres and the camers didnt get a good pic on low or medium so only hi










managed to get another 100 metres and still get a view of the barn on hi so this is at 300 metres










Pretty darn impressive and my new favourite light


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

How was the housing heat on high the the balmy English summer fast approaching


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Mike E. said:


> It must be named: Bubbles.
> 
> Great looking light.
> 
> Mike


Best name ever! And with the remote switch named Conky - always telling him what to do.


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

Is it possible to save more weight and drop the to XPG's? If not could the housing be refined to save some weight? I'm thinking pure helmet light used in conjunction with a a bar light.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

As emu suggested, there is always a temptation to add one more! The problem I've found is that you just don't get much value out of it. I found that going from 1 to 2 aspherics gave only a slight increase in visibility. In fact you don't really see much further, you just see the same things a little clearer. So I don't think you'll get much value out of a third XM-L.

The only reason you might add it, is if you defocus it or use a different optic to fill in the mid-ground a bit. Looking at the beamshots, it looks like the spider eyes has the same (minor) problem that my headlight has when all LEDs are on. You can see both far and close but the beam shape isn't very smooth in between. Of course with good bar-lights this doesn't matter.


I'm glad you like the lenses Troutie, and I couldn't be happier that my headlamp sparked the idea.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Ash I am pretty stoked with this light the photos dont do the beam justice at all 
even on the lowest setting it is good but full certainly has the wow factor .

Yes I agree about adding another so much so that the MK 2 is already in progress and having one removed to just be a single aspheric and other lens this will be a ledil Laura for the first trial .










































I have left room to use or 2 Lflexes so each led will be switchable this light will go in to trials with a Guy who is a Search and Rescue dog handler with our mountain rescue service he wanted a light with good throw for spotting the dog at distance but complained that all the lights he has tried have too much back scatter when it is misty and raining .
so the idea to be able to switch each on in or out will suit all conditions .

What are your stock levels like Ash as if this light works out well I will be wanting 50 or so of the lenses.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Bloody hell Troutie, you're fast.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

yetibetty said:


> Bloody hell Troutie, you're fast.


It's sickening 

But oh so good to watch:thumbsup:


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cheers Ash I am pretty stoked with this light the photos dont do the beam justice at all
> even on the lowest setting it is good but full certainly has the wow factor .
> 
> Yes I agree about adding another so much so that the MK 2 is already in progress and having one removed to just be a single aspheric and other lens this will be a ledil Laura for the first trial .
> ...


Chris that last pic looks like you used a face mill/fly cutter on the surface? I kept toying with the idea of a fly cutter, but my machine has a 30mm max on fly cutting aparently, plus i have no idea how to sharpen tool steel for the fly cutter.

If you do get 50 of the lenses will you be supplying some to other DIY'ers?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

emu26 said:


> It's sickening
> 
> But oh so good to watch:thumbsup:


I agree, on both counts!


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> Chris that last pic looks like you used a face mill/fly cutter on the surface? I kept toying with the idea of a fly cutter, but my machine has a 30mm max on fly cutting aparently, plus i have no idea how to sharpen tool steel for the fly cutter.


That cut was faced on the lathe. You can tell from the pattern that it was done at the same setup that the bore was cut.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

That is...

without challenge...

the ugliest well-made light I have ever seen.



Stock level is currently 31. These are 27.2mm lenses (P60 size) instead of your 30mm ones but they are optically identical. More can be made if the demand is still there.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> That is...
> 
> without challenge...
> 
> ...


LOL yes needs a stylist

anyways some more pics


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## nicknoxx (May 25, 2008)

If it's only drawing half an amp on medium, you could run it from a dynamo. . . .


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Troutie, you must be powered by rocket fuel or something, I bet CNC machines have trouble keeping up with you.

I think you win the Pissing contest as emu puts it.........


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Troutie, you must be powered by rocket fuel or something, I bet CNC machines have trouble keeping up with you.
> 
> I think you win the Pissing contest as emu puts it.........
> 
> ...


only because I have not much work on at the moment , kids have left home at last 
all the painting has been done .

might as well be in the garage as watching telly .


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie that is an impressive weight for such a beast but you really need to speak to your advertising / marketing guys. I think the new name "routelight" (note the French spelling of the word root) might attract the wrong clientelle.

On a serious note did you just happen to have the correct size radius cutter or did you have to constantly adjust the work piece to get a relatively smooth outside curve?

Seriously impressive work


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

ahorton said:


> Stock level is currently 31. These are 27.2mm lenses (P60 size) instead of your 30mm ones but they are optically identical.  More can be made if the demand is still there.


I would suggest that after this thread you might want to start making some more


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Bloody hell, I don't log on for 2 days and you've built another light chris, or was it the lathe fairies 

I need to find myself a clone so he can go home and amuse the family whilst I stay at work and fiddle on the mill/lathe.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie that is an impressive weight for such a beast but you really need to speak to your advertising / marketing guys. I think the new name "routelight" (note the French spelling of the word root) might attract the wrong clientelle.
> 
> On a serious note did you just happen to have the correct size radius cutter or did you have to constantly adjust the work piece to get a relatively smooth outside curve?
> 
> Seriously impressive work


by good fortune the cutter is the correct radius so just had to keep moving the work around to get the shape.
word of warning here keep fingers away from those cutters when spinning that one has half of my fingernail and some flesh due to a blond moment by me .

change of plan only one Lflex now as I dont have battery that will power it with 2


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> by good fortune the cutter is the correct radius so just had to keep moving the work around to get the shape.
> word of warning here keep fingers away from those cutters when spinning that one has half of my fingernail and some flesh due to a blond moment by me .
> 
> change of plan only one Lflex now as I dont have battery that will power it with 2


Chris what is that cutter your using?
Round over bead router bit? just looked at the price of the big ones..Ouch!

Thanks..


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

Is mighty impressive stuff - how you turn them out at this rate of knots is beyond me! Have to say I do rather prefer the aesthetics of the first one though!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Chris what is that cutter your using?
> Round over bead router bit? just looked at the price of the big ones..Ouch!
> 
> Thanks..


I picked it up for £7 at a car boot sale how much have you seen them for .
looked like it had never been used now its abused.

@ mfj197 so do I and also its not very heat friendly but it serves as a good test bed

Rightio on to some interesting beamshots well I think so

first up is just a aspheric @ 3 amps ( note holding a piece of card over an XML/Laura @3 amps for 6 seconds hurts  )










Laura on its own not as hot covering an aspheric for 6 secs 










Aspheric and Laura ( note the bond wire shadows must put them at the top next time )










The double aspheric / xpg










and just the double Aspheric ( easy to hold the card over the XPGs )










Advisory note on the Aspheric only shots it looks like there is lots of spill in real life this is a lot dimmer than the camera says


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Chris, the 2 additional XPG's certainly compliment the beam of the aspherics.

Bet the poor bugger lurking in shot 3 was blinded and dazed.

As a side note is you move the aspheric lens in and out do you get a wide and narrow beam affect or is the focal point fixed?


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

I really love the new beam. No really bad dead spots.

For the double-Aspheric, it looks like there's a slight misalignment because the two beams aren't quite shining on the same spot. You can probably just shift one of the MCPCBs a few micrometers and it'll be all good.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Chris, the 2 additional XPG's certainly compliment the beam of the aspherics.
> 
> Bet the poor bugger lurking in shot 3 was blinded and dazed.
> 
> As a side note is you move the aspheric lens in and out do you get a wide and narrow beam affect or is the focal point fixed?


yes in both cases the aditional optic enhanses the beam for mountain biking 
and i would think a single aspheric. would suit the road bikers need for a long thin beam

yes from the focul point as you de focus inwards the beab becomes wider and rounder

the poor sod is my daughter and the dog

You era spot on Ash though its more the two holes are machined out of alignment by about a quarter of a mm from parallel


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> You era spot on Ash though its more the two holes are machined out of alignment by about a quarter of a mm from parallel


That's ok. You can probably still make the beams line up by shifting the LED slightly.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> That's ok. You can probably still make the beams line up by shifting the LED slightly.


I can live with the miss aligned beams for now its pretty well sealed up against our weather .

will tighten up the machining now i know a bit more about the animal if I do anymore multi aspherical lights .


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

troutie-mtb said:


> ... and i would think a single aspheric. would suit the road bikers need for a long thin beam


I do something similar, but in a far more mundane way at the moment - two of the cheap X2000 aspheric zoomable flashlights, one on quite wide flood and one zoomed further in. Nothing like this of course - very impressive.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Heres's ahorton's CPF link to purchase the aspherics..assuming its still valid.
There's a few other bits on there to..
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308032-Ahorton-s-sales-(Lenses-headlamps-...)


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Heres's ahorton's CPF link to purchase the aspherics..assuming its still valid.
> There's a few other bits on there to..
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308032-Ahorton-s-sales-(Lenses-headlamps-...)


Excellent Jay. Do you use the aspheric's for you dive lights?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Conclusions and thoughts*

OK so now I have had a few plays with the lights here are a few thoughts .

The Problem 
From experience of quite a few diy and shop bought lights in my opinion there has always been something lacking which came to light  really when I started taking the hound out on night rides so was going a bit slower which gave me more time to observe and contemplate .

What I was finding as a lot of rides were on canal towpaths so good distances were available the dog was running ahead and would go beyond the beam alot of the time .
it was like there is a black hole moving along in front at the same speed .

This was sometimes made a bit better by the mad lumen count lights but it was still there on all lights .
What to do about it keep adding leds untill it gets far enough away to not annoy me 
Tried that and it becomes expensive and power requirements mean heavier batteries .

Or try and use the available lumens better and use less leds this seems to be the way to go .

We had pretty good lights when the XRE was the flagship led and with every improvement in led design and lumen count we are still chasing the utopian light for our own ( enlightenment )

So when I refound the Aspherical lenses in a workshop tidy up  I sat and stared at them for an age before deciding to revisit some testing I had done when they first came in this was in the MCE period and the 4 die beam was not good for biking 
I then went on CPF and read up on a few aspheric lights. ( they seem to be able to tell you a lot on CPF but also keep a lot of secrets so it can be frustrating doing research on there ) 
Went and found Ahortons threads and saw his head light and he was the only one I had seen that utilised the lense and seperate other led / optic to make a more usable light .
the rest is all in this thread with the spawning of the dual spider eyes light closely followed by its brother .

first impressions were excellent the Black-hole had been vanquished all be it with a large lumen count with the spidereyes the light just keeps going the lumen hound is always visible as are the Rabbits he likes to chase .

So I had to try a single Aspheric plus friend and it was working as well OK not quite as bright but the black hole was no more .
Now these are pretty much a lucky set up as only rough measurements and set up has been used in my haste to get a working light

also on first seeing the hotspot is square as my daughter pointed out on a walk the other night at first I thought it would annoy me but the more I esed it the more I got to appreciate it as the distance increases the the beam expands and it is the same shape of a lot of the trails I ride ( there are other shape of trails which may not suit this beam )

the lense can be defocused a little to get a more rounded and slightly less throwing beam and I do want to do some fine tuning of this setup .

I have been greedy and bought 50 of these from Ash clearing him out of all but his own he wanted to keep , He did say he would be making some more and I believe he will sell some of his own supply while the new ones are being made .

One thought for a single Aspherical / XML would be the road but with the bottom of the led cavity (Liberated ) to drop the remaining lumens downwards but as my main purpose for this is a killer helmet light I wouldnt want those stray lumens in front of my face .

so in conclusion I am very happy with these 2 lights and there will be others I am sure just not as quickly ..

as well as Ahortons sale thread

various aspherical lenses can be had from Dealextreme , Kaidomain .
and here http://www.surplusshed.com/

I hope you all enjoyed seeing the birth of these lights as much as I did making them .
and keep up the innovative work that this place is famous for .

Troutie


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I hope you all enjoyed seeing the birth of these lights as much as I did making them .


Hell yes :thumbsup:


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Excellent Jay. Do you use the aspheric's for you dive lights?


Never made any dive lights as I already have a beast of a dive light..
Plus getting the thing water tight under pressure for 50m diving can be a challenge.
One mistake and its all in the bin as salt water is nasty on electronics.


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> my main purpose for this is a killer helmet light
> 
> Troutie


I know photos dont always tell the full story but from I we can see in them I think your onto a real winner here Troutie. I look forward to seeing you refine the design now that they have proven them selves as a killer helmet light!

Keep up the good work! :thumbsup:


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> LOL yes needs a stylist
> 
> anyways some more pics


Chris

Can you tell me where you get the helmet mounts from?

Thanks

Tim


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## cmacclel (Dec 23, 2005)

Very Cool! What type of bit is that red one cutting the radius?

Mac


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Wombat said:


> Chris
> 
> Can you tell me where you get the helmet mounts from?
> 
> ...


Tim. They are from my Mini troutlight I had cnc d up

Mac 
its a carbide woodworking Router bit. ( tool abuse  )


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> That is...
> 
> without challenge...
> 
> the ugliest well-made light I have ever seen.


Is the MK 2 a little better looking


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm not sure if it is the simulated bear skin rug it is on or the light itself, but I like it!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Is the MK 2 a little better looking


You sure are getting good at churning these out Chris..:thumbsup:

Does anyone see this when the look at it, or is it just my warped sense of humour?


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## natac (Jul 26, 2008)

That's beautiful, Troutie. After that old motorcycle photo, it could be called the "sidecar".


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

natac said:


> That's beautiful, Troutie. After that old motorcycle photo, it could be called the "sidecar".


I thought that to...maybe more fitting would be sidelight


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> You sure are getting good at churning these out Chris..:thumbsup:


Dont know about churning started it by hacksawing a lump off a 44mm square bar of ali on saturday afternoon . did about 4 hours .

sunday another 4 hours while the Turkey F1 race was on on

3 hours monday morning ( 05.00 till 08.00 ) 
4 hours monday evening 
today 4 hours 
still got to assemble it yet

and not forgetting looking and planning each process 25 hours I reckon is a fair estimate though could possibly Churn another out in half the time .

tips the scales at 110 grams with all the bits to make it work and fit it on a helmet .


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Fantastic Chris :thumbsup: but you need to slow down so the rest of us can catch up. Maybe if I get my fitters to machine up lights, mmmm, what is more important, the factory running or me having new lights to play with 

Have to agree regarding the time taken. Knocking lights up in the lathe is so fast but with a manual mill I reckon it takes 5-6 times long


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

I like different...so I really like that design. That fur thing the housing is on reminds of me of centerfold layout


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Looks good Chris.

why did you set the aspheric back so far into the housing, was it just to protect the lense from scratching? I think if you brought it all the way forward and shortened that side of the housing you'd go close to getting it under 100gms. Now that would be and impressive build for a helmet light with so much useful output.

Nice work


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

cytoe said:


> That fur thing the housing is on reminds of me of centerfold layout


True light porn then.
Problem is now I have Goldiggers sidecar picture in my head I keep thinking of Arthur & Olive from ON THE BUSES.

Nice work Troutie I like it a lot.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

Much nicer!

At 110grams it will get hot, but probably not enough to worry when you're moving.

Looks like a very easy assembly too. I'm guessing that you'll just glue the lens and optic in.

Where is the connection between the chambers? I think I can see a cut but I'm not sure if it's a reflection.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ahorton said:


> Much nicer!
> 
> At 110grams it will get hot, but probably not enough to worry when you're moving.
> 
> ...


Thanks Ash quite a few improvements over the first one 
Switch on the side sucks switch on top is best .

better heat handling

drilling the hole through was a challenge


















Yes both optics are glued in

Not sure what to do with the 27 mm lenses though ( they arrived today Thanks )
tiny flange on them  but look good and look huge next to the 30 mm ones .
:thumbsup: even smaller housing on the cards.

@ Emu 
the lens is inside a cavity if I want to use it on the bars so dont get stray light in the eyes
*Bugger I have just realised the lense must invert the image damn bond wire shadow is at the bottom but leds are bond wire up in the light *


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks Ash quite a few improvements over the first one
> Switch on the side sucks switch on top is best .
> 
> better heat handling
> ...


You could pop some in the post for me 
I still have a 30mm one doing nothing..was thinking of making a single with it..


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

What are the final dimensions on it?

It looks like 50mm wide, 34mm high and 40mm deep.

The 27mm lens will let you come down to 47x30x40mm when CNC'd. Don't worry about the tiny flange. You're not getting much light through the edge anyway so it's not a major loss if you use an extra 1mm to glue it in. 

The connecting hole between the chambers should also be easy enough for a professional CNC shop to do.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> You could pop some in the post for me
> I still have a 30mm one doing nothing..was thinking of making a single with it..


I have 4 x 30 mm ones left if you want one of those a couple are earmarked for a dive light for a mate

the 50 I got from Ashley are going to get cnced housings

@ Ahorton 
pretty much on the money there 55 wide 33 high and 42 deep

and here it is on one of EL34`s headstraps


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

looks great, shirt, headstrap writing and doggy bed all colour coordinate.

Oh, and the light looks top notch as well mate :thumbsup: 

I noticed you don't like the switch at the side, have you tried them at the back? That seems to be my preferred position. Forefinger on the front of the light, swicth activated with the thumb, leaving my right hand on the bars


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Skeletor*

OK this will give you all a laff .

back at the start of the thread the Spidereyes was born

Well the thing weighed in at a neck straining 200 ish grams and that was without the mount I think so for me to want to use it it needed a diet like its owner .
it underwent surgery in a back street weight loss clinic and the results are not pretty .
the milling zombies had a ball removing as much metal as poss and adding fins to all that remained . 
absolutely no finesse was shown to it just a rough cut and hack job .

not fully healed yet from surgery and here I give you a shadow of its former self .

weighing in at 147 grams inc mount after its reduction program

would go well in the Micheal Jackson Thriller video .

are you ready for your eyes to be assaulted

and your good taste insulted ..

enough blabbing here it is in its pain .










the frontal pic it not too bad really as long as you look at it in the dark .

its the side view that is in a class of its own :band:

Sorry


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Words fail me when it comes to looks. But as it not designed for beauty purposes, just a killer light to be used in the dark then you could have it nailed. If it copes with the heat.


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

I think after the 7-up you've got this 'not square, not round ' sub-theme and variations thing going on. I told you it looked like a zombie. In the nicest way, of course! Skeletor works too. Powered up no one will see it front on, Nothing but burned retinas. Be neat anodized red and black. A variant with large 45 degree angle cooling fins off eacn XM-L could be the 'Horn(e)y Devil'! Anodized in red of course.  Even your merciless weight hatchet jobs come out.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

So Chris, your next logical step is to make some sand casts, make yourself a little furnace to melt some alloy and pour your own castings. If you have about 4 housing per sand cast, you could produce 4 lights in no time at all, and at a very minimal cost.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> So Chris, your next logical step is to make some sand casts, make yourself a little furnace to melt some alloy and pour your own castings. If you have about 4 housing per sand cast, you could produce 4 lights in no time at all, and at a very minimal cost.


There was a guy appeared on here who cast his own stuff and a fine job he did too

I had a go melting some offcuts but decided it had the possibility to give me Freddy Kluger 
Looks .

here are some comparison beam shots 
all on high beam

LIBERATOR (1700 lumens measured )









DX Bastid P7 ( 550 lumens measured )









Triple XML Cute SS optic ( on paper lumens 2700 )









Little helmet light 2 XML ( on paper lumens 1800 )









Spider eyes monster light . ( on paper lumens 2700 )


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow chris, the spider eye light puts out some light, and it is great to see some traditional stone fences again. Brings back memories from when I was a kid playing in fields around Kidderminster. 

I had a dream last night about sand casting hence the suggestion. Just need a safe way to heat the crucible and not spray myself with molten metal as you said, but must say in my dream the results were fantastic.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

I reckon it looks much better now!

I love the lean, efficient, hungry look.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

tha sand caster was a guy in the states, from memory he had a pic of him and his significant other in front of a car or 4x4. Posted heaps up until about 2 yrs ago but I haven't seen anything from him for a while.

It will come to me.

re your light, the last two leave everything else I have seen for dead. Nice even field of light from close to far,no over exposed foreground and lots and lots of throw. Love it!!

Edit: Aaron, i think

edit #2 aaron04 his first casting


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

it a wonder i didnt get a call from the local police last night 
went out walking with the dog wearing the bike helmet and carrying a bag of stuff 
out in the fields tried a shoot but grass and trees did not show the true throw 

so walked to the barn and set up again still not happy with the results only 1.5 hours later as walking home and just 200 metres from my house is this drive up to 3 houses 
about 200 metres long from me to the trees at the far end 
just happened to shine a light up as goin past so set up the camera and started 
got halfway through the shots when all the lights in all 3 houses came on and dogs started barking managed to keep my nerve and get the last 2 shots then beat a hasty retreat .

they show the black hole effect perfectly and thee throw from the asphericals is spot on 
good fun though


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

That last driveway shot   :thumbsup: 

The new bare bones design looks very mean! 

How scratch resistant are the aspehericals? Sitting out so proud like that would expose them to a lot of potential abuse.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

The lenses can take a fair beating. They are a Borosilicate glass so you won't easily scratch them with metal knives but start diving into shards of quartz or granite and you'll get scratches.

If you do get a scratch, a quick clean with alcohol will make it all but disappear. I did some experiments a while ago where I took a diamond burr to a lens and gave it plenty of scratches. The before and after difference in intensity was barely measurable because they were all very thin scratches.


They are brittle however. The material does chip but it's 14mm thick in the middle so it ends up being really strong in practice. 

Sometimes I've had to destroy a lens I glued in place to get it out and it takes a few smashes with a hammer to get anywhere. When it does crack, it always cracks around the 2.5mm flange because that's the weakest bit.


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## ozlongboarder (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for the info Ahorton, sounds like they should be durable enough.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Without hijacking the thread the more i think about sand casting the more i want to do it. I think i'll get a few bags of refractory cement, butcher an old gas cylinder and make up a little furnace. I have so much scrap alloy at work that I can make into ready to use ingots in preparation for that 1st sand mould pour. The trick will be to make a finned design that is easy to get out of the sand mould to give an acceptable final result.


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## ahorton (Apr 15, 2009)

brad72 said:


> The trick will be to make a finned design that is easy to get out of the sand mould to give an acceptable final result.


I reckon the round-bottomed fin might make a reappearance. Or you could try lost-wax casting.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

ahorton said:


> I reckon the round-bottomed fin might make a reappearance. Or you could try lost-wax casting.


I think you could be right on both accounts


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

Troutie, thanks for sharing these builds with us. Very useful and informative, and good to see how the XM-L works through an aspheric.


troutie-mtb said:


> One thought for a single Aspherical / XML would be the road ...


This is interesting certainly. For road acceptance we'd need to angle the beam downwards a bit so the top edge of the beam is on or around the horizon. How well does the beam work when this is done? There's the same output power at the bottom of the beam as at the top, so the area illuminated by the bottom (which is much closer to the bike) normally appears much brighter than the top, at the horizon. The contrast is sometimes too much for the human eye, with the throw effectively negated by the bright patch closer in.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Either way there more durable than plastic optics that we normally use..
I'm down to my last bits of Ali, do I make a single aspheric or use an LC1, driver will be a lflex..

Wonder how a double would work so one quazzle tripple and a 30mm aspheric..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Either way there more durable than plastic optics that we normally use..
> I'm down to my last bits of Ali, do I make a single aspheric or use an LC1, driver will be a lflex..
> 
> Wonder how a double would work so one quazzle tripple and a 30mm aspheric..


Go for that then you will ba able to switch them independent 
:thumbsup:


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## BrianMc (Jan 5, 2010)

That last beam shot? It is all I hoped from the get go when I saw your idea. A remote on/off for the XP-G's would tame the glare for road use, leaving the double XM-L dice image search light and a helmet tip would aim those away from an oncoming driver, or at him if he is doing something stupid. Taskled provides all the level management needed. Combined with a bar or fork light capable of road manners low and more on high, I think we have a winner. Now I have to buy that 10 mm XM-L for my helmet light!


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

BrianMc said:


> That last beam shot? It is all I hoped from the get go when I saw your idea. A remote on/off for the XP-G's would tame the glare for road use, leaving the double XM-L dice image search light and a helmet tip would aim those away from an oncoming driver, or at him if he is doing something stupid. Taskled provides all the level management needed. Combined with a bar or fork light capable of road manners low and more on high, I think we have a winner. Now I have to buy that 10 mm XM-L for my helmet light!


Ah yes, I remember you were using aspherics for your helmet road light design Brian. How have you found it? I don't have the luxury of moving a beam to the side when a car is encountered as the amount of traffic on my journey would necessitate me looking into the gutter the whole time. Not very conducive to going forwards!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Go for that then you will ba able to switch them independent
> :thumbsup:


Only problem will be the two different input voltage's..
Quazzle's needs 6v
lflex will be 3.7v

Might be easier to just use two single xml's with an lflex for each..


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I have to say that I think the dinky twin XM-L aspheric seemed to throw just as much as the twin aspheric, just with some loss of close in fill. I wonder if a single XM-L aspheric with twin parallel XP-G 10mm would be the best combination.

very impressive how the use of the light is more important than how much of it there is.

(I quite like the hacked up helmet light BTW, looks mean)


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Chris, what distance did you use between the base of the led and the bottom of the aspheric in the end?

Im thinking of making mine universal so that i can swap the aspheric with a different optic..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Here's what I've knocked up over the weekend... just need to fin the hell out of it..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice one Jay. You guys are on fire


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I have to ask, how does the cut off with an aspheric compare to that of a reflector? Chris I know you don't like the way the reflectors generally terminate the beam at the sides, is it the same with an aspheric or is there a bit of a smoother transition to darkness?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> I have to ask, how does the cut off with an aspheric compare to that of a reflector? Chris I know you don't like the way the reflectors generally terminate the beam at the sides, is it the same with an aspheric or is there a bit of a smoother transition to darkness?


with it focused properly there is just a beam very little spill defocused a little and spill starts to appear .
Golddigger wil have a beam shot soon I guess


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

emu26 said:


> I have to ask, how does the cut off with an aspheric compare to that of a reflector? Chris I know you don't like the way the reflectors generally terminate the beam at the sides, is it the same with an aspheric or is there a bit of a smoother transition to darkness?


The cutoff is extreme, and is more noticeable than with a reflector. With an aspheric all of the light coming through the lens is focussed - there is no 'spill' or light direct from the emitter (save for a few artefacts sometimes introduced in the lens). If the emitter is at the focal point of the lens then the result is an image of the (square) emitter projected out the front with virtually no light anywhere else. If as Troutie says, you defocus the aspheric (i.e. bring the emitter closer to the lens) then the result is a flat circle of light, larger depending on how far you defocus. I actually rather like using a defocused aspheric in flashlights as it has no hotspot - it is all good, even light. But however you focus it, the cutoff is very sharp.


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## [jsl] (Sep 20, 2007)

Is it just me or is anyone else *not* seeing most of the pics in post #94?


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

There are no pics. Those spaces are only suspense inducing LF's


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## swis.2k (Jun 12, 2011)

Hey all. Guy where can i find some lens like yours? Will the (High Power LED convex lens condenser 30mm) from ebay work, or its different then the aspherical lens?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

swis.2k said:


> Hey all. Guy where can i find some lens like yours? Will the (High Power LED convex lens condenser 30mm) from ebay work, or its different then the aspherical lens?


Send ahorton a pm
Got a link to the eBay one? Please.
Is this them http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-pcs-High-Po...632?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27ba3878b0


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## JezV (Oct 31, 2009)

Hi guys

It's been a few months since I last dropped into this forum and wow, things have really moved on. Doesn't seem two minutes since Regina was king of the throw but these aspherics really look the dogs b****cks.

Troutie, once again you've moved baseline and I'm amazed someone like Hope hasn't offered you a 6-figure salary to run their R&D. Their loss is our gain!


:thumbsup:


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## syc (Aug 1, 2006)

Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but there is a group buy on AHorton's aspherics for US/North American buyers. If anyone is interested in the aspheric in the US to get ready for winter riding, now would be a good time to sign up for the group buy.


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## Praxis (Apr 30, 2007)

syc said:


> Sorry to resurrect this old thread, but there is a group buy on AHorton's aspherics for US/North American buyers. If anyone is interested in the aspheric in the US to get ready for winter riding, now would be a good time to sign up for the group buy.


There does not seem to be a group buy forum; do you have a link to the thread?


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## syc (Aug 1, 2006)

Sorry, my post count is too low to allow a direct link (my punishment for being a lurker all these years). Here's a mangled version of the URL that gets past the editor:

candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?308032-Ahorton-s-sales-(Lenses-headlamps-...)

Its under Custom & Modified Flashlights ->CPF's Custom & Modified Flashlights - Buy/Sell/Trade -> Ahorton's sales (Lenses, headlamps ...)


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## Praxis (Apr 30, 2007)

Thanks!

Clickable:
Ahorton's sales (Lenses, headlamps ...)


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