# Increased poaching activity by anti eBikers



## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

We are seeing an increase in MTB riders poaching sections of horse/hiker only trail in the State Park near where I live. It might be time for eMTB riders to start patrolling these trails since there is such a shortage of enforcement manpower. I suggest that every eMTB rider does the following: Affiliate with local high school age clubs. They always love adult volunteers that can serve as support riders on eMTBs. This will get you access to permits (from State agencies) for riding on otherwise off-limit trails so you can patrol for anti eMTB poachers. It also can get you access to night riding. There are way to many irresponsible riders on our trails bombing around. eMTBs are just what we need to prevent a few bad apples spoiling it for responsible riders.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Are you in politics? You'd be great at it.


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Procter said:


> Are you in politics? You'd be great at it.


No. Definitely not my game. I'm just a concerned citizen that is troubled by poachers and hooligans out on our trails, and those pushing an anti eBike agenda to "change the subject". We can't let a small group of Luddite deniers ruin it for the rest of us.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Let us know how it works out for you.
Should be amusing.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Why would an ebiker be any more qualified to police the poaching, compared hikers or mountain bikers policing the poaching? What advantage does an ebiker have, for this purpose?


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> Let us know how it works out for you.
> Should be amusing.


Trail cams go in this weekend. Since some of the most often poached sections cross private property owned by a couple who loves their eBikes, they have agreed to post "No Trespassing" signs. This will allow for impounding poacher bikes. (According to State Police, but I doubt they will impound unless they catch red handed.)

They don't mind MTBs as long as they ride legally and safely. The beauty of an eMTB bike is that with a helmet camera you can capture a lot of bad behavior on a ride.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Again, why are ebikes any better for this purpose, than mountain bikes?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Why are all the poachers anti-ebike? Maybe they don't like other user groups horning in on their poaching territory?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

You are right. You eBikers need to form your own group so you can distance yourselves from mountain bikers, who may sully your reputation. I suggest you all attach very large decals to your downtubes with big bright letters that say "electric bike" or better "pedmo". Be sure to point out to anyone you come across, "it's not a bicycle, it is a pedmo". Don't let the bicycle riders ruin your reputation.

Thanks for leading this important step in the ebike revolution.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

chazpat said:


> You are right. You eBikers need to form your own group so you can distance yourselves from mountain bikers....Be sure to point out to anyone you come across, "it's not a bicycle, it is a pedmo".
> Thanks for leading this important step in the ebike revolution.


This is all most mountain bikers have ever wanted from e-bikers. 
Stop pretending it's a mountain bike. 
Seems like OP has come around to the right way of thinking. 
One small step!

Hey Officer Doofy, I would make sure you delete any pics of your fictitious e-bike couple as they roll off their property and onto the State Park trails. Or at least make sure they wear their badges and uniforms so everyone can tell that they're super-legitimate. Pics of said couple dressed up and 'on patrol' would be much appreciated.

I knew this was going to get funny.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Rangers always welcome unmonitored, untrained volunteers to start enforcing the rules as they see fit as well. Sure.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Isn't this how Barney Fife lost his accreditation?


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Got to be one of the dumbest posts I've read.


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## Xaero (Mar 18, 2006)

Procter said:


> Again, why are ebikes any better for this purpose, than mountain bikes?


Only e-bikes are fast enough to catch another e-bike. Especially on the uphill sections.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Xaero said:


> Only e-bikes are fast enough to catch another e-bike. Especially on the uphill sections.


Ok so: 
- Bikes are not allowed on these trails - for all the usual reasons: hiker/biker/equestrian conflicts, they go too fast, etc. 
- Ebikes are faster than bikes, so they should be allowed, in order to catch bikes.

Do you see the problem with the reasoning here?

Plus, when you 'catch' them, what will you do? Try to knock them over? Arrest them? Are the ebikers deputized?


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## Xaero (Mar 18, 2006)

Procter said:


> Plus, when you '*catch*' them, what will you do? Try to knock them over? Arrest them? Are the ebikers deputized?


Pokeballs... catch them with pokeballs...

duh?


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Xaero said:


> Pokeballs... catch them with pokeballs...
> 
> duh?


No. Private security contractors. Fully funded. Eyes and ears and cameras for the actually LEOs. We should be up an

Not Pokeballs.

Pokeballs are not real.

Permits issued by the relevant agency that allow eMTB access are real.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Why am I getting a mall cop vision here?

And Gomer.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> No. Private security contractors. Fully funded. Eyes and ears and cameras for the actually LEOs.


Like an ongoing stake-out playdate in the woods for wannabe cops, with you and a couple other nutz paying their salaries?

Serioulsy, you gotta share some pics!

LOL!!!!!


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> I'm just a concerned citizen that is troubled by poachers and hooligans out on our trails...


Impressive amount of anti-rep you've collected in a short space of time. Well done! Planning on posting anything that's worth reading any time soon?


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

It's entertaining, I'll have to give him that.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

I just don't see a need for Emtbs here. I'm thinking a Segway and a Keystone Cops outfit complete with a whistle and chrome plastic handcuffs. Mountain bikers will laugh so hard, they'll fall over out of breath. Then, you got 'em.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

They do make offroad segways....


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Yep, and the local "Glenwood Adventure Company (GAC)" is "guiding" these offroad Segway tourists on the Rio Grand river bike path that explicitly states no motorized vehicles, and goes even further to classify that not even e-bikes are allowed - no freaking grey area here. GAC's argument was that they're not motorized, they're electric, and the new state laws that allow class 1 e-bikes on MUTs lets them do this. I called BS, called the town govt. and confirmed that they weren't supposed to have these things on the trails. Reported and busted. 

See, this BS Class 1 e-bikes on MUT's designation is already trickling down and causing problems.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> Permits issued by the relevant agency that allow eMTB access are real.


I am genuinely curious to know exactly which Land Management and or Law Enforcement agency in exactly what locality you have approached with this idea.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

Klurejr said:


> I am genuinely curious to know exactly which Land Management and or Law Enforcement agency in exactly what locality you have approached with this idea.


He is in the Bay Area based on his profile....the most anti-bike area I can think of.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

mtnbikej said:


> He is in the Bay Area based on his profile....the most anti-bike area I can think of.


shhh....

Heeeeeeey Bjorn2Ride, I suggest starting with Marin County Open Space and Mt. Tamalpais authorities - report back on findings!


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

watermonkey said:


> Yep, and the local "Glenwood Adventure Company (GAC)" is "guiding" these offroad Segway tourists on the Rio Grand river bike path that explicitly states no motorized vehicles, and goes even further to classify that not even e-bikes are allowed - no freaking grey area here. GAC's argument was that they're not motorized, they're electric, and the new state laws that allow class 1 e-bikes on MUTs lets them do this. I called BS, called the town govt. and confirmed that they weren't supposed to have these things on the trails. Reported and busted.
> 
> See, this BS Class 1 e-bikes on MUT's designation is already trickling down and causing problems.


I've never met a real life hero before.

1 off the bucket list.


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## Xaero (Mar 18, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> No. Private security contractors. Fully funded. Eyes and ears and cameras for the actually LEOs. We should be up an


Blackwater Security guys in these bikes..








Not a motorcycle because pedals right???

We coming to getcha!!!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

That thing is sweet.


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## EABiker (Jun 24, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> That thing is sweet.


Jawohl


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Can you shoot those bike poachers magnum hand gun? 

Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Picard said:


> Can you shoot those bike poachers magnum hand gun?
> 
> Sent from my F3213 using Tapatalk


Rocket dog scuba gear!


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)




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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Cornfield said:


>


"Do ya feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?"


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

chuckha62 said:


> "Do ya feel lucky, punk? Well, do ya?"


I've been thinking in Harry Callahan's voice ever since I posted that, lol!


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

As someone with extensive experience riding with High School clubs, I'm curious where you got the idea that they'd "love" to have an ebike riding adult along? Or where you got the idea that by riding with these clubs, you'd get access to some super secret access permit that they supposedly have? Neither of these things is remotely true. 

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Turd (Jul 21, 2005)

Planning to do a vintage build. Figure a two-stroke is more appropriate for the vintage. No maps or GPS, probably just get drunk and f around at night on a gulfcorse to play the part according.
Suppose no internet talk, probably best to use a payphone if I can find one. Do I need a dime or nickle for that technology?


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## Xaero (Mar 18, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> That thing is sweet.


You bet it is. 
You just need to fix that super low muffler.

You could get hung up on some roots while trying to get those meddling anti ebikers trying to get away.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Bjorn2Ride is obviously an imposter planted here to foment ebike hatred.:lol:


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Mookie said:


> Bjorn2Ride is obviously an imposter planted here to foment ebike hatred.:lol:


It certainly feels that way on occasion....


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Mookie said:


> Bjorn2Ride is obviously an imposter planted here to foment ebike hatred.


And Bjorn2Ride hatred.


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Silentfoe said:


> As someone with extensive experience riding with High School clubs, I'm curious where you got the idea that they'd "love" to have an ebike riding adult along? Or where you got the idea that by riding with these clubs, you'd get access to some super secret access permit that they supposedly have? Neither of these things is remotely true.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


Maybe not where you live. I am happy to share details privately with people sincerely interested. It doesn't sound like that describes you. That's fine.

I can tell you that the State Park Service that prohibits access after sunset absolutely authorizes night rides and issues permits. A train of 1000 lumen riders is pretty cool to see, and riding feels like the most awesome video game you have ever experienced.

I got the idea from personal experience.

I'll get a video next ride. I have been meaning to do so. I was joking the other night that there must have been $10k in lights bouncing around. God bless the inventor of the LED.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Interesting. You still won't be riding with a High School team on an ebike.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Silentfoe said:


> Interesting. You still won't be riding with a High School team on an ebike.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


I have a deal for you. I will bet you $1000 that you are wrong. I will provide a video of a training ride.

Or whatever you agree is "evidence". The head coach- a regular master class race winner- rides my bike on some sustained hill training sessions, FFS.

We can set up an escrow account and lay it all out in the open. I will take your $1000 and contribute 100 percent to the scholarship fund for the team.

That will be well worth breaching my privacy in the face of the hostility in this forum.

Let's get consensus among your anti friends regarding what constitutes acceptable evidence. Then I will find an escrow arrangement so you can't cheat the kids.

If $1000 isn't enough, I can do any amount you can scrape together.

Agree? Or STFU.

What a pathetic joke.

How about $1000 for an image of the permit that allows night riding in a State Park? $500 if I can redact my personal info.

The money will go to good use.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

watermonkey said:


> Yep, and the local "Glenwood Adventure Company (GAC)" is "guiding" these offroad Segway tourists on the Rio Grand river bike path that explicitly states no motorized vehicles, and goes even further to classify that not even e-bikes are allowed - no freaking grey area here. GAC's argument was that they're not motorized, they're electric, and the new state laws that allow class 1 e-bikes on MUTs lets them do this. I called BS, called the town govt. and confirmed that they weren't supposed to have these things on the trails. Reported and busted.
> 
> See, this BS Class 1 e-bikes on MUT's designation is already trickling down and causing problems.


 In first class irony, you do know that the new owner (2009) or so, drove his segway off a cliff and died.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I'll bet $1000 you cry on your keyboard.


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

slapheadmofo said:


> I'll bet $1000 you cry on your keyboard.


So you want to take the bet? If it needs to be higher, I am fine with that.

Man up. Make a donation. You guys are so sure of yourselves based on absolutely zero evidence.

Why not take my money?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Why don't you just post the evidence and stop with all the bs?


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## KiwiPhil (Jun 2, 2008)

life behind bars said:


> I think that we can all agree that bjorn is a "special" or unique example, even among other emotorbikers.


I think you drop yourself to that said "special" level when you decided to insult every EBike rider (emotorbiker comment).

Its about time party's on both side of the debate just get some nads and GROW UP!!!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

The whole premise of this thread is absurd.

I like poaching...eggs. Thinly sliced ciabatta toasted to perfection. Topped with fresh local succulent Dungeness crab. 3 or 4 leaves sauteed spinach. 1 poached free range duck egg. Moderate amount of homemade extra rich hollandaise sauce and topped with 1 cedar smoked local oyster. Finally a dollop of Topiko for some pop. Pair with a freshly squeezed pomegranate Bellini, significant other, and a nice ocean view.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> The whole premise of this thread is absurd.
> 
> I like poaching...eggs. Thinly sliced ciabatta toasted to perfection. Topped with fresh local succulent Dungeness crab. 3 or 4 leaves sauteed spinach. 1 poached free range duck egg. Moderate amount of homemade extra rich hollandaise sauce and topped with 1 cedar smoked local oyster. Finally a dollop of Topiko for some pop. Pair with a freshly squeezed pomegranate Bellini, significant other, and a nice ocean view.


Hey Whalenard, I'm going to be out in Portland next week (I really am). Mind if I stop by for breakfast?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chazpat said:


> Hey Whalenard, I'm going to be out in Portland next week (I really am). Mind if I stop by for breakfast?


We're not significant other status...yet

About 107° and smokey in town today. Hopefully you catch some better weather. On a serious note, if you have time to meet up for a ride shoot me a PM. Enjoy your visit.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> We are seeing an increase in MTB riders poaching sections of horse/hiker only trail in the State Park near where I live blah blah blah...


Can you explain how your stirring of the eMTB post is anything new or useful? If you think you are conducting some epic trolling, I think it's time to review your life path. At the rate you are gaining neg rep, I don't think anyone on either side is going to be sad to see your childish posts stop.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> So you want to take the bet? If it needs to be higher, I am fine with that.
> 
> Man up. Make a donation. You guys are so sure of yourselves based on absolutely zero evidence.
> 
> Why not take my money?


$1,000,000 then.

You're not the only one with a huge e-wallet.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> $1,000,000 then.
> 
> You're not the only one with a huge e-wallet.


Let's make it $1,000,000,000,000. I'll chip in on the zeros, someone help out with the 1.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

I have a dollar. We're good now?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm good for 1 kazillion.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I'll contribute a rat's ass.


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

In other words, none of you has the integrity to back up your assertions. You called me a liar. I suppose time will eventually catch up to you and this ever-lasting record will become increasingly embarrassing as it becomes as absurd to be anti- Class 1 eMTB.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> In other words, none of you has the integrity to back up your assertions. You called me a liar. I suppose time will eventually catch up to you and this ever-lasting record will become increasingly embarrassing as it becomes as absurd to be anti- Class 1 eMTB.


Well, why don't you back up your assertions?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Bjorn2Ride said:


> In other words, none of you has the integrity to back up your assertions. You called me a liar. I suppose time will eventually catch up to you and this ever-lasting record will become increasingly embarrassing as it becomes as absurd to be anti- Class 1 eMTB.


I agree, this is really embarrassing.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

I am anti motor, period. I don't care what class it is. Call it absurd, I don't care what you think. I don't want the anti mtbers to have any more ammo against bikes. Ride your motorized bikes on trails that allow motors.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

sfgiantsfan said:


> I am anti motor, period.


No, really?


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

You guys should lay off of Bjorn2Ride. All he is doing is expressing frustration in the busybody MTBers that would dime out a fellow MTBer simply because his bike has a battery.

As much as I hate to admit it... California is the only government entity that I have seen which is approaching the eBike thing intelligently. They define electric bicycles into 3 catagories (cat 1, 2 and 3). Cat 1 represents a bike like a specialized Levo. These bikes aren't going to do anything to the environment that a conventional MTB would. But unfortunately, the Federal agencies pretend that anything with a motor can be lumped into the same category (despite their own rules which say otherwise). So a Specialized Levo is the same thing as a Honda CRF450. Absurd.

Then along comes the busybody MTB snob. Just as it is absurd to challenge a riders manliness based on his wheel size, these snobs claim that an eBiker, even a cat1 eBiker shares nothing in common with him. He is a fool because he searches for the differences with his brethren rather than similarities. As such, the snob wants eBikers gone. So he dimes out any eBiker he sees on "his" trails.

But even more frustrating is the distant cousin to the MTB snob - the eBiker bootlicker. This is the person who knows that one of these things is not like the others, but he desperately wants to stay in good favor with the conventional MTBers as well as regulatory agencies. So he leads the campaign to diming out eBikers (even cat 1) who dare to violate what he "THINKS" the rules are. This guys is worse than a bootlicker. He's a turncoat.

One must keep in mind that these regulatory agencies (BLM, USFS, etc.) are run by government employees. And government employees ALL have one common goal... to get a bigger budget for next year. So, while their budgets may have been stagnant for a while, along comes eBikes. This is like a gift for the agencies because it gives them a new, poorly understood, scapegoat that can be demonized. They can claim that these horrific devil machines will destroy the trail systems and that they need a bigger budget to fight the onslaught of this new terror. So they make stupid statements like "if there is a motor on it, it is a motorized vehicle". To the lay person (or the snob/bootlicker), this sounds reasonable. But it's not.

I saw this time and time again in the dirtbike world. Regulatory agencies are constantly pushing a growing number of dirtbikers into smaller areas. This becomes like a self-licking ice cream cone for them for as the density of dirtbikers go up, the impact to the environment goes up. Then, they point to the impact (which they created), and claim they need more regulation. They would have a plan to shut down a million acres to dirt bikers until one of the impotent riders groups (AMA, Blue Ribbon Coalition, etc) would intervene and only 700,000 acres would be shut down. The stupid part is that the riders groups would crow that they saved 300,000 acres... when in fact, they lost 700,000 acres!!

This has had the effect of making dirtbiking more dangerous. Growing number of dirtbikers + smaller areas to ride = accidents waiting to happen. And now they want to dump eBikes into these same areas!! This is insanity!!

So, while Bjorn2ride goes about it in a fairly clumsy fashion, his point is legitimate. We should ALL take offense to overregulation of our trail system. I do not own an eBike, but I am vehemently opposed to absurd eBike regulations. I am opposed to ANY overregulation that restricts access to public land. So, when you see some MTBer chastising an eBiker (especially a cat1) and threaten to report him to the authorities... we should take the side of the ebiker and call out the snob/bootlicker for what he is. For the demise of the least of us is the demise of us all.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

sfgiantsfan said:


> I am anti motor, period. I don't care what class it is. Call it absurd, I don't care what you think. I don't want the anti mtbers to have any more ammo against bikes. Ride your motorized bikes on trails that allow motors.


A perfect example of the MTB snob. What he doesn't realize is that when the regulatory agencies gain momentum with shutting down areas available to eBikers, they won't stop at just ebikes. That momentum will spill over onto all MTBers. This type of foolishness is merely a snob who champions his own downfall.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Jim_bo said:


> You guys should lay off of Bjorn2Ride. All he is doing is expressing frustration in the busybody MTBers that would dime out a fellow MTBer simply because his bike has a battery.
> 
> As much as I hate to admit it... California is the only government entity that I have seen which is approaching the eBike thing intelligently. They define electric bicycles into 3 catagories (cat 1, 2 and 3). Cat 1 represents a bike like a specialized Levo. These bikes aren't going to do anything to the environment that a conventional MTB would. But unfortunately, the Federal agencies pretend that anything with a motor can be lumped into the same category (despite their own rules which say otherwise). So a Specialized Levo is the same thing as a Honda CRF450. Absurd.
> 
> ...


 Interesting spout. Motors are motors. No? Class 1,2,3 how to tell by looking? You can't. Overrides and controller mods already exist. 2,000, 3,000 watts? Hmmm, already out here. Public land belongs to all, not just those with motors. So there's that. And your post has what to do with the thread?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Jim_bo said:


> You guys should lay off of Bjorn2Ride. All he is doing is expressing frustration in the busybody MTBers that would dime out a fellow MTBer simply because his bike has a battery.
> 
> As much as I hate to admit it... California is the only government entity that I have seen which is approaching the eBike thing intelligently. They define electric bicycles into 3 catagories (cat 1, 2 and 3). Cat 1 represents a bike like a specialized Levo. These bikes aren't going to do anything to the environment that a conventional MTB would. But unfortunately, the Federal agencies pretend that anything with a motor can be lumped into the same category (despite their own rules which say otherwise). So a Specialized Levo is the same thing as a Honda CRF450. Absurd.
> 
> ...


Moto's earned every single exclusion through their collective asshattery but it explains much of your "unique" kind of advocacy bent. Aren't there anarchy forums you could go spread your message on?


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

leeboh said:


> Interesting spout. Motors are motors. No? Class 1,2,3 how to tell by looking? You can't. Overrides and controller mods already exist. 2,000, 3,000 watts? Hmmm, already out here. Public land belongs to all, not just those with motors. So there's that. And your post has what to do with the thread?


California Law requires that manufacturers certify their bikes as being class 1, 2 or 3 and that that class be printed on the bike. A guy who would modify a Specialized Levo into a 2,000 W machine is outside the norm. It is illegal to modify exhausts in California as well... but we don't ban all cars, diesel trucks and motorcycles because a few people break these rules. No good comes from throwing the baby out with the bathwater.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

life behind bars said:


> Moto's earned every single exclusion through their collective asshattery but it explains much of your "unique" kind of advocacy bent. Aren't there anarchy forums you could go spread your message on?


You have defined yourself on other threads as the classic bootlicker. Isn't there a big government forum you can go lick boots on?


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

When you resort to name calling, you've lost your argument. 

We are also very aware that trails could be closed by associating ebikes as mountain bikes. Hence the reason so many of is are vehemently opposed to them. Ebike riders are not our "bretheren".

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jim_bo said:


> We should ALL take offense to overregulation of our trail system.


Speak for yourself please.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

Silentfoe said:


> When you resort to name calling, you've lost your argument.
> 
> We are also very aware that trails could be closed by associating ebikes as mountain bikes. Hence the reason so many of is are vehemently opposed to them. Ebike riders are not our "bretheren".
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


And you are the other rider who has clearly defined himself on other threads. Thanks to you and "life behind bars" for helping me hone my points.


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## Jim_bo (Jul 31, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> Speak for yourself please.


First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me

-Martin Niemöller


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Jim_bo said:


> First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
> Because I was not a Socialist........................


What an epiphany, can't believe I didn't put that together before now! I am now firmly in the pro e-bike camp.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Jim_bo said:


> First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
> Because I was not a Socialist.
> 
> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
> ...


Bet $1,000,000 you live to make mountains out of molehills.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Jim_bo said:


> But unfortunately, the Federal agencies pretend that anything with a motor can be lumped into the same category (despite their own rules which say otherwise). So a Specialized Levo is the same thing as a Honda CRF450. Absurd.


Just like so many ebikers want to say anything with pedals is a bicycle.



Jim_bo said:


> Then along comes the busybody MTB snob. Just as it is absurd to challenge a riders manliness based on his wheel size, these snobs claim that an eBiker, even a cat1 eBiker shares nothing in common with him.


Please show an example where a MTB rider "claims that an eBiker&#8230; shares nothing in common with him."



Jim_bo said:


> They can claim that these horrific devil machines will destroy the trail systems and that they need a bigger budget to fight the onslaught of this new terror.


Please show an example of where this claim has been made.



Jim_bo said:


> So they make stupid statements like "if there is a motor on it, it is a motorized vehicle".


So you are saying a vehicle propelled by a motor is not a motorized vehicle?



Jim_bo said:


> So, while Bjorn2ride goes about it in a fairly clumsy fashion, his point is legitimate.





Bjorn2Ride said:


> We are seeing an increase in MTB riders poaching sections of *horse/hiker only trail* in the State Park near where I live. It might be *time for eMTB riders to start patrolling these trails* since there is such a shortage of enforcement manpower.


You find that legitimate?



Bjorn2Ride said:


> I suggest that every eMTB rider does the following: Affiliate with local high school age clubs. They always love adult volunteers that can serve as support riders on eMTBs. This will get you access to permits (from State agencies) for riding on otherwise off-limit trails so you can patrol for anti eMTB poachers. It also can get you access to night riding. There are way to many irresponsible riders on our trails bombing around. eMTBs are just what we need to prevent a few bad apples spoiling it for responsible riders.


So what he is saying is, go to your state agency and claim you want to support high school age clubs so that they give you a permit to ride an ebike on trails where motorized vehicles are illegal and then use that permit to justify riding on trails that do not even permit bicycles. And you consider that legitimate? btw, we're still waiting for Bjorn to post the evidence he claims to have to back any of his claims up.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Jim_bo said:


> First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
> Because I was not a Socialist.
> 
> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
> ...


You should be ashamed of yourself for comparing the plight of the Jews in WWII to ebikers not being allowed to ride on non-motorized trails.

You really need to give that some thought.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Jim_bo said:


> You guys should lay off of Bjorn2Ride. All he is doing is expressing frustration in the busybody MTBers that would dime out a fellow MTBer simply because his bike has a battery.
> 
> As much as I hate to admit it... California is the only government entity that I have seen which is approaching the eBike thing intelligently. They define electric bicycles into 3 catagories (cat 1, 2 and 3). Cat 1 represents a bike like a specialized Levo.


It's worth noting that while a Levo is a Class 1 bike in those states that have adopted similar legislation, and there are a few by now, not all Class 1 bikes are like the Levo. The laws allow motors rated at 750w nominal, which means 1500-3000w peak depending on the voltage run through it, which is a concern for many. If the laws allowed only 250w emtbs, they'd be more widely accepted.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Jim_bo said:


> First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
> Because I was not a Socialist.
> 
> Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
> ...


That is really inappropriate, even by MTBR standards. I'm not sure how one rationalizes such an analogy. Shame.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Whether a motor is pressed into service via pedals or a thumb throttle, makes no difference. The fact that it is no longer human powered is the issue, but you (Bjorn, Jim_bo, etc.) already know that, you're just being obstinate. 

The motor renders the ebike to be something different. It's not a bicycle anymore, nor is it a motorcycle in the classic definition. It still needs to find its place and be championed according to its attributes.

While you continue to make the argument that it is just a bike, land managers may very well declare that it's too difficult to discern them from human powered bikes and just ban all two-wheeled conveyances. Just because you fail to recognize that argument doesn't make it less relevant. 

Now, will I "dime out" an ebike rider? You bet your ass I will. We all have too much at stake.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Jim_bo said:


> You guys should lay off of Bjorn2Ride. All he is doing is expressing frustration in the busybody MTBers that would dime out a fellow MTBer simply because his bike has a battery.
> 
> As much as I hate to admit it... California is the only government entity that I have seen which is approaching the eBike thing intelligently. They define electric bicycles into 3 catagories (cat 1, 2 and 3). Cat 1 represents a bike like a specialized Levo. These bikes aren't going to do anything to the environment that a conventional MTB would. But unfortunately, the Federal agencies pretend that anything with a motor can be lumped into the same category (despite their own rules which say otherwise). So a Specialized Levo is the same thing as a Honda CRF450. Absurd.
> 
> ...


I think that most of what you have said here is nonsense. Just letting you know in case you thought otherwise.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> I think that most of what you have said here is nonsense.


Well, you should read it again and think more about it. It has more sense that much of the crying "it has a motor" written here everywhere on every occasion.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

eFat said:


> Well, you should read it again and think more about it.


Once was enough. My grasp of English is not too bad.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

So, somehow the fact that it has a motor is not relevant? Interesting.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

chuckha62 said:


> So, somehow the fact that it has a motor is not relevant? Interesting.


No, for the speed limited pedal assist ebike, it's not relevant.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

efat said:


> well, you should read it again and think more about it. It has more sense that much of the crying "it has a motor" written here everywhere on every occasion.


It has a motor!


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

eFat said:


> No, for the speed limited pedal assist ebike, it's not relevant.


Just because the fact it has a motor is inconvenient to your cause, doesn't render it irrelevant.

Then again, we are subjected to alternative facts on a daily basis, aren't we?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

You know, you ebike advocates are so obtuse and annoying that if I had the authority I would ban your bikes from seabed to mountain top. Just to piss you off. 

If I were you guys I'd stop posting on the internet and just generally shut the feck up. Has to work better than this.


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## eFat (Jun 14, 2017)

Mr Pig said:


> If I were you guys I'd stop posting on the internet and just generally shut the feck up. Has to work better than this.


Maybe you should stop posting on an ebike forum?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

eFat said:


> Well, you should read it again and think more about it. It has more sense that much of the crying "it has a motor" written here everywhere on every occasion.


I suggest you read my post #78 and think more about it. Then if you still think his post makes sense, please provide your thought process.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

eFat said:


> Maybe you should stop posting on an ebike forum?


Did you happen to notice the name of this website?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

eFat said:


> Maybe you should stop posting on an ebike forum?


It's not my fault someone gave you space on a mountain bike forum but I do wish you would make more of the opportunity. As it is you mostly come across like spoiled children who are unhappy about not getting things exactly your way.


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