# What do you eat on a ~3 hour ride?



## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Today I rode a 25 mile loop, 3600ft climbing, ~3 hours. I ate Honey Stinger gummies (160 calories iirc) at the 1 hr mark, a honey stinger gel (100 cal) at the 1:45 mark, and another gel at the 2:15 mark (before the last descent followed by a 1000ft climb). I was pretty wiped at the end but I'm a flatlander who usually road bikes during the week and mountain bikes 2-3 times a month on the weekends and haven't been doing rides more than 2 hours for a few months so I expected to be pretty beat. I'm not sure if this is because I didn't eat enough or I just went longer than usual.

At 6'6" 230lbs I'm a bigger guy, does this sound like a lot, a little, just right?


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

I'll assume you mean you were pedaling for 3 hours, but out for more than that total and it's all about total time out, unless you just rode the MTB on the road. If you rode actual trails and were only in fact out for 3 hours to do that distance and climbing, then I'd say you pushed it pretty hard, hence the wiped feeling.

As to what to eat, not a fan of gels, only use those on seriously long rides or emergencies, normally like to take oatmeal raisin cookies, banana bread, sponge cake, peanuts or trail mix with me, you know, real food you have to chew, but I am 6'2" and only weigh about 175lbs nekked, geared about 190lbs.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Yesterday was 3:05 moving, 3:15 elapsed, parked at the trailhead

I had a bad crash 18 months ago and haven’t been riding as much since but trying to get back into it. I used to do that loop in ~2:40 moving, 3:00 elapsed on 2 gels and be not quite as wiped at the end but that very well have been even less than I should have eaten.


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## Guest (Dec 10, 2017)

Pretty much stick with food you could buy at the store. For the Gravel Worlds Privateer (6 hours in saddle) I had two two-pack fig newton bars (about 8 regular fig newtons), a cup of lightly salted almonds, a packet of vending machine trail mix (peanuts, M&Ms and raisins) a Pierson's salted nut roll, a big pickle at mile 65 (same guy was handing out Ice Cold Modelo but I didn't think I could keep pace with a stomach full of foam) and used a non-sweetened electrolyte mix (1/2 strength) in my water.


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

That wouldn't be enough for me (OPs calorie intake). Eating has been a constant battle for me (drinking, too, being in Florida). I could eat a gel an hour for the first couple hours and be riding fine, but will pay for it the 3rd hour and be feeling like I'm in trouble on the 4th hour, because 100 cal/hr is not enough for me.

Everything I've read suggests that for longer 3+ hr rides you should consume 200-300 calories an hour to maintain your glycogen stores...but that you can only metabolize about that much, so eating more isn't gooder. And everyone is going to be different. I've been having success with Hammer Perpetuem, as long as I pay attention to the volume and time (helps regulate my fluid intake, too). I try to take in about 250 cal/hr. I want to now start trying real food again now that I've got a timing system down.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Alias530 said:


> Today I rode a 25 mile loop, 3600ft climbing, ~3 hours. I ate Honey Stinger gummies (160 calories iirc) at the 1 hr mark, a honey stinger gel (100 cal) at the 1:45 mark, and another gel at the 2:15 mark (before the last descent followed by a 1000ft climb). I was pretty wiped at the end but I'm a flatlander who usually road bikes during the week and mountain bikes 2-3 times a month on the weekends and haven't been doing rides more than 2 hours for a few months so I expected to be pretty beat. I'm not sure if this is because I didn't eat enough or I just went longer than usual.
> 
> At 6'6" 230lbs I'm a bigger guy, does this sound like a lot, a little, just right?


Sounds about right to me, maybe a little bit light. Those honey stingers don't sit right with me though and I'm not usually particular at all, Cliff shots, etc. seem a lot more palatable but I realize that's personal taste. Bananas are one of my favorites, they travel well in a jersey pocket and provide an instant energy burst without cramping your gut.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)

I don't eat anything on rides up to 12hrs. However I get my calorie intake with Tailwind Nutrition. No solid foods, 200-300 calories per hour. Covers both my nutrition and my hydration. 

Tailwindnutrition.com


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> Sounds about right to me, maybe a little bit light. Those honey stingers don't sit right with me though and I'm not usually particular at all, Cliff shots, etc. seem a lot more palatable but I realize that's personal taste. Bananas are one of my favorites, they travel well in a jersey pocket and provide an instant energy burst without cramping your gut.


The gels make me go from zero to hero in like 10 minutes, presumably because they digest so fast. The gummies are more calories but I can tell they take a lot longer to start digesting.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Alias530 said:


> The gels make me go from zero to hero in like 10 minutes, presumably because they digest so fast.


I like gels for the same reason, just not those particular ones. Still like bananas better but they do take up a bit more real estate.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Take a gander at these pictures. Allen Lim's book.










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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> I like gels for the same reason, just not those particular ones. Still like bananas better but they do take up a bit more real estate.


Aren't they just honey and electrolytes?


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

Anything over ~3 hours (which, around here will involve a high volume of intense climbing) and I set an alarm for every 40 minutes and eat fast carbs (no fiber): gels, stingers etc. I'll also tend to use BCAAs mixed in my water on long, intense days. I find 40 minutes to work noticeably better than 60 minutes. Staying on that schedule, I feel that my glycogen stores don't get depleted. If I wait until I feel like I need to eat or approximate every hour, then I end up with these ~20 minute windows where I'm lagging and those tend to compound over the course of the day. However much food I have to carry, it's worth it in terms of performance. On Backcountry trips, I've found that the 1.5 lbs of food a day rule is inadequate for me and that if I up that to 2.25 lbs, performance over consecutive days is considerably improved, so I usually have a total weight limit in mind and cut weight elsewhere. 


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Alias530 said:


> Aren't they just honey and electrolytes?


I'll take your word for it, apparently honey doesn't work for me during rides. Like I said, just personal preference.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Honey is great, is natural, but not ideal during intense exercise since it contains fructose (up to 40%) the body doesn't directly utilize fructose, it needs to convert it for energy. Figs,dates and bananas have less fructose. Most gels don't have any.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> Honey is great, is natural, but not ideal during intense exercise since it contains fructose (up to 40%) the body doesn't directly utilize fructose, it needs to convert it for energy. Figs,dates and bananas have less fructose. Most gels don't have any.


However, the fiber in figs and bananas require some time to process the sugars. I eat dates and bananas frequently while lifting in the gym, though when I'm out pumping mountains and frequently in an anaerobic state, I'm looking for more direct delivery to the bloodstream. Fiber "packaging" gives your body time to figure out what to do with the sugar, which is good for pedestrian use, but not ideal for fueling while fluctuating in and out of a anaerobic state.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

1x Muesli bar after 60 mins of riding...

I'd have another at the 2 hour mark...

Drink more water than you think you need.

Gels only in an emergency i.e. gonna bonk >.<

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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

101 said:


> However, the fiber in figs and bananas require some time to process the sugars. I eat dates and bananas frequently while lifting in the gym, though when I'm out pumping mountains and frequently in an anaerobic state, I'm looking for more direct delivery to the bloodstream. Fiber "packaging" gives your body time to figure out what to do with the sugar, which is good for pedestrian use, but not ideal for fueling while fluctuating in and out of a anaerobic state.


True the fruit is better pre ride. Or if your ahead of the game. Gels and drinks are better once the need hits.

An neat carb is HBCD. It's the fastest carb sorce, easiest to digest. I've used it in the weight room, mixed with EAA recuperation is much better . It's so fast acting I feel the symptoms of low blood sugar, thinking about mixing dextrose or malidextrin and trying it on rides.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> True the fruit is better pre ride. Or if your ahead of the game. Gels and drinks are better once the need hits.
> 
> An neat carb is HBCD. It's the fastest carb sorce, easiest to digest. I've used it in the weight room, mixed with EAA recuperation is much better . It's so fast acting I feel the symptoms of low blood sugar, thinking about mixing dextrose or malidextrin and trying it on rides.


Im the same way, I'll usually eat fruit pre ride as well as oats for a solid "slow" carb base. In the weight room, I'll usually just go with bananas because it's cheap source of fuel. Those gel shots, honey stingers etc ain't exactly cheap per calorie, even buying them in bulk. I tend to reserve those type of carb sources for epic days when weight and digestive efficiency are of importance.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Nothing.

And these rides are almost all tech, no roads, no sit and spin.


Maybe I'd perform a bit better at the end with something in me, but for me, I've found the benefits of munching during a ride way over rated.

The long term health benefits of frequently "running on empty" out weigh just maybe finishing a ride at a slightly faster pace.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Miker J said:


> The long term health benefits of frequently "running on empty" out weigh just maybe finishing a ride at a slightly faster pace.


Even when taking in a few hundred calories an hour your still basically running on E. If I'm riding at a pretty good pace I go downhill fast with no food after a couple of hours, maybe I could train myself to do without but I'd rather not.

There have been studies suggesting that a leisurely pace while exercising can be better for your health but I don't know if that's conclusive.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

A lot depends on the type of riding one is doing: consistent pace riding on relatively flat terrain could likely if not exclusively pull from one's fat stores, especially if the body is conditioned for fat burning efficiency. Where I live and ride in the mountains, most of what I do involves constantly being in and out of a anaerobic state, with frequent redlining. At that heart rate, your body will raid glycogen stores first and then start breaking muscle down. It can't break fat down fast enough to use for energy. I see no long term or short term health benefit to wasting precious and hard earned muscle to get myself up the mountain, so I'm keeping my body loaded with readily available and quick burning fuel. I realize this isn't the same for everyone and that terrain, body type and goals will vary from person to person (some people are even riding to lose weight), but for me, the goal is pure performance, optimal recovery and to get me back with the same amount of muscle I left with. Years of Coming back from trips being weak, underweight and excessively depleted led to to experiment with eating as it relates to performance. I want to do hard stuff and I want to have energy, alertness and enthusiasm while doing it. The only sustainable way to do that is to eat well and get lots of sleep. Limit either of those two factors and you are running a line of credit with your body which you'll repay with compounding interest. 


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Miker J said:


> Nothing.
> 
> And these rides are almost all tech, no roads, no sit and spin.
> 
> ...


I do the Intermittent Fasting diet, my short rides are alway empty. Once a week I'll do a longer ride with calories.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

As you increase in fitness you start burning fat for fuel earlier and earlier in the workout, even if you have glycogen stores left, especially during easy to moderate workouts. As intensity increases the fat metabolism starts falling short of needs and glycogen starts burning also.

This occurs whether on a high carb or low carb diet. A fit rider will burn fat even on a high carb diet. In a varied intensity workout (hill climb and sprints embedded in your ride, eg) you will switch back and forth between fat and glycogen as primary fuel. At highest intensities, like at or near max HR, you will be using the CP/ATP pathway for fuel for a few seconds to a minute.

On a three+ hour ride your glycogen stores are pretty well gone unless you were replenishing along the way.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

*Devil's advocate...*



Cerberus75 said:


> I do the Intermittent Fasting diet, my short rides are alway empty. Once a week I'll do a longer ride with calories.


Right on.

How to properly fuel our bodies for overall, long term fitness is poorly understood.

I'm not talking about how to be 5 minutes faster on a 3 hour ride by sucking down sugary goo - but rather maintaining and building long term, power and fitness. That will get you faster in the long run.

Going without caloric intake for more hours in the day I'm guessing will become more popular. I avoid calling it "fasting", as it is all relative. Sure, one could call it fasting relative to the accepted line of BS we've lived by for years - eating 3-4 meals a day plus "snacks".

"Snacks" - ha !!! A marketing term if I ever heard of one.

Anecdotally, my motor burns way better on an empty stomach.

A common "fitness day" for me is 7am oatmeal, butter, eggs, coffee, maybe bacon. Some digging in the dirt/hiking on my land or trail work for 1-2 hours. A 2+ hr ride. Then 45 min of heavy weight training at the end of the day with squats, deadlifts, and chins. End it all with a big supper at night about 7pm. Lots of sleep. Nothing to eat between breakfast and supper. Repeat the next day.

Best way for me to make sure I stall out mid-day... eat something. Then I need a big, fat nap.

Admittedly, for a 3hr +, ride, full race-pace all the time.... I may very well bonk if not taking anything in.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Miker J said:


> Right on.
> 
> How to properly fuel our bodies for overall, long term fitness is poorly understood.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I agree that most of our knowledge about nutrition is just theory. When I was involved in the power lifting / body building lifestyle eat every 3hrs was a must, in everyone's mind. Most athletes are taught this way as well. Few people challange it, even though the model comes from how babies are fed.

Now I'm older, and longevity is my main concern, I find eating to recuperate has improved inflammation markers, lipid profiles, and insulin sensitivity. So most days are either a short ride or a hard gym session after work. I'll only eat dinner.
A long harder day I'll start with a meal. Bring something just in case.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> eat every 3hrs was a must, in everyone's mind. Most athletes are taught this way as well. Few people challange it, even though the model comes from how babies are fed.


I'd say it goes way beyond how babies are fed to grow. There is a wealth of anecdotal evidence supporting athletic performance as it relates to caloric intake. There are certain qualifiers for different athletic pursuits. For example, a marathon runner can function well on a paleo or ketogenic diet, but strength based athletes such as powerlifters & Oly lifters do not as it is difficult/sub optimal for muscular Adaptation to take place without sufficient carbs. Athletes who operate in an anaerobic plane such as Crossfitters and cyclists would also quality for a carb intake far exceeding that of a sedentary person. "Paleo diet for athletes" includes a significantly higher carb intake with certain dietary exceptions for this very reason. Sure, people will argue about protein intake per body weight and exact grams of carbs and fat needed, but it's safe to say that an athlete needs more calories than a sedentary person: some mixture of fat, carbs and protein that will exceed the intake needed to merely sustain healthy life since, in whatever capacity, an athlete's body is in a constant state of physical stress and recovery. While it's difficult and excessively complex to calculate exact needs to achieve optimal recovery, the body recovers more efficiently with a surplus of calories rather than a shortage of calories. In short, all things being equal, if you are in fact eating to perform, more food is better than less food.

If the food you are eating is knocking you out, then you are likely eating the wrong type of food, some significant macro imbalance, and/or the wrong food/macro balance at the wrong time of day. While, sure you need some time to digest, food for athletes should feel restorative and/or fueling, depending on the needs of the moment. I fail to see how intentionally denying your body fuel and restorative calories could have any long term health benefits or immediate benefits as related to performance. While you need the stimulation of physical stress to drive adaptation, the adaptation itself is achieved primarily through sleeping and eating. That's what makes you stronger, faster and longer.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

101 said:


> I'd say it goes way beyond how babies are fed to grow. There is a wealth of anecdotal evidence supporting athletic performance as it relates to caloric intake. There are certain qualifiers for different athletic pursuits. For example, a marathon runner can function well on a paleo or ketogenic diet, but strength based athletes such as powerlifters & Oly lifters do not as it is difficult/sub optimal for muscular Adaptation to take place without sufficient carbs. Athletes who operate in an anaerobic plane such as Crossfitters and cyclists would also quality for a carb intake far exceeding that of a sedentary person. "Paleo diet for athletes" includes a significantly higher carb intake with certain dietary exceptions for this very reason. Sure, people will argue about protein intake per body weight and exact grams of carbs and fat needed, but it's safe to say that an athlete needs more calories than a sedentary person: some mixture of fat, carbs and protein that will exceed the intake needed to merely sustain healthy life since, in whatever capacity, an athlete's body is in a constant state of physical stress and recovery. While it's difficult and excessively complex to calculate exact needs to achieve optimal recovery, the body recovers more efficiently with a surplus of calories rather than a shortage of calories. In short, all things being equal, if you are in fact eating to perform, more food is better than less food.
> 
> If the food you are eating is knocking you out, then you are likely eating the wrong type of food, some significant macro imbalance, and/or the wrong food/macro balance at the wrong time of day. While, sure you need some time to digest, food for athletes should feel restorative and/or fueling, depending on the needs of the moment. I fail to see how intentionally denying your body fuel and restorative calories could have any long term health benefits or immediate benefits as related to performance. While you need the stimulation of physical stress to drive adaptation, the adaptation itself is achieved primarily through sleeping and eating. That's what makes you stronger, faster and longer.


I definitely won't argue that athletes need more calories, and strength athletes need more protein. The only thing I question Is meal frequency. More and more athletes are learning to earn their carbs. Use them for fuel if nessasary and definitely for recuperation.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Cerberus75 said:


> I definitely won't argue that athletes need more calories, and strength athletes need more protein. The only thing I question Is meal frequency. More and more athletes are learning to earn their carbs. Use them for fuel if nessasary and definitely for recuperation.


Yes.

The OP, like the rest of us, I doubt are referring to pro-athletes who are not forced to remain relatively sedentary most of the time during our regular full time jobs.

Mammalian physiology was designed to deal with frequent periods of glycogen depletion. It is known that excess glycogen/sugar/fat storage in the human body is linked to a variety of maladies.

I'd bet that almost no one posting in this thread has a day job that is lucky enough that requires them to use all their energy stores. I think too much stored energy is not a good thing. I think the best way to get rid of it is physical activity and eating less frequently.

Just my opinion.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Miker J said:


> Yes.
> 
> The OP, like the rest of us, I doubt are referring to pro-athletes who are not force to remain relatively sedentary most of the time during our regular full time jobs.
> 
> ...


I know Pro body builders, sting man, power lifter who require 8000 calories a day. They do better with 3-4 meals with most of the calories around or after activity. And their base metabolism is higher than most people when they are active. The grazing idea and keeping energy stores full isn't ideal for humans. We hormonally respond better to digging deep than refilling. Insulin resistance is one of the worst things for recuperation.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Ultra Fuel powder in a 16 oz bottle. 400 calories of energy, sadly discontinued

However Cytomax has a drink powder that should be similar. 

I like it better than food because it works fast, keeps the bonk away.


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## 101 (Nov 14, 2017)

I have two links. One for entertainment:






And one for valuable information relating to this thread:

https://gymjones.com/knowledge/1846...owergels-vs-just-nuts-and-water-for-endurance

Of note:

"Eating while moving is pace-dependent, the higher the work intensity the less "complicated" the food may be."

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