# super budget 20"



## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

My oldest daughter is 7, weighs about 40 lbs, and is a bit of a pansy at times (though she holds her own with boys her size sparring at taekwondo). So far she seems to enjoy biking, but isn't very confident in her riding unless it involves flat pavement. My mission was to get her a bike she enjoys, and one that will get her on the trails with her mom and I.

3 days ago I picked up a haro flightline 20 for $30 on craigslist...yes $30. The fork has an external spring and boot, which leads me to believe it's a 2010 or 2011. It's in excellent shape aside from a flat-spotted rear tire, open bar ends from worn grips, and abrasions on the left and right side of the saddle. It was obviously well cared for by previous owners. The fork squeaks a little, I was thinking about putting some lube on to quiet it down. Not really sure what maintenance a fork like this needs. After dropping the stem, rotating the bar, moving the seat all the forward, and pulling in the brake levers she is doing great. On her first test ride she didn't want to stop going uphill...I think she was enjoying the climbing ability of her first geared bike (I set it in the granny gear to start).

I just ordered a 35mm stem for $10 on amazon (she picked the gold color) for her to try. She said she feels good on it, but still looks a bit too stretched out. If she continues to improve her riding I'll order a pair of 1.4" little joes and lightweight tubes.

And to think I almost spent over $200 on a new giant/liv enchant 20.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

Great start for $30. Crank looks like a fairly large chain-ring, she would probably have an easier time climbing with a smaller chain-ring (crankset replacement). 

The 36 spoke wheels could also be re-built as 12 spoke wheels using better hubs to replace the (heavy) freewheel with a lighter cassette that also offers lower gearing range. 

OEM tires can be ridiculously heavy, buying a lighter set of schwalbe tires can be some of the most effective $ you can spend upgrading.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

I also thought the chainring looked a bit large (and noticed some other 20" models come with a smaller one), but I see no need to replace it until she is riding trails/paths steep enough to give her trouble with her current setup. 

The wheel rebuild idea sounds cool, I may attempt something like that over winter.

I'm already planning on getting a pair of little joe 1.4s with the lightest tubes I can find as long as she continues to show desire to ride.

My 5 year old (who is more likely to actually catch the trail riding bug) will be getting this bike as well in a couple years. I've been looking for a deal on a good 16 incher for her but no luck so far... so she's still on a wally world bike.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

New rear brake cable and housing yesterday. Practicing on the backyard loop:



Just realized I still need to take those reflectors off the wheels.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Just bought some budget disc wheels for my sons 20" bike. Check to see if shipping offsets the cost but for €20 you can't beat the price. I weighed them at around 946g front and 968g rear without the cassette. More than my wheelset but for the price.........Made in Germany and well made. I didn't have time to build him a better wheelset so I just bought these. Propain has much lighter wheels but at €230 a pop. 
https://www.taylor-wheels.com/bike-...el-gruenert-dynamic4-double-wall-6-disc-black


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

eyeballs said:


> The wheel rebuild idea sounds cool, I may attempt something like that over winter.


Info at thread; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...-wheel-build-40lb-rider-need-help-891768.html

If you decide the suspension fork is heavy and ineffective (as are most OEM kids forks), you can customize a older 26" fork to 20" ; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/suspension-fork-shortening-932945.html


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

GrayJay said:


> Info at thread; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...-wheel-build-40lb-rider-need-help-891768.html
> 
> If you decide the suspension fork is heavy and ineffective (as are most OEM kids forks), you can customize a older 26" fork to 20" ; http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/suspension-fork-shortening-932945.html


Now THAT sounds like a fun project! I might have to start looking at old 26" forks on ebay.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

OK I ran into a problem. I ordered a pair of schwalbe little joes in 1.4" and some q-tubes superlight tubes to go with them. Somehow the 20" labeled tubes are too big in diameter to fit...seems more like 22 inches. Can anyone recommend a light 20" tube that will work well with a 20x1.4" tire?


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

eyeballs said:


> OK I ran into a problem. I ordered a pair of schwalbe little joes in 1.4" and some q-tubes superlight tubes to go with them. Somehow the 20" labeled tubes are too big in diameter to fit...seems more like 22 inches. Can anyone recommend a light 20" tube that will work well with a 20x1.4" tire?


Tubes were perhaps intended for 451mm ERD bmx tires instead of 406mm erd 20" MTB tires?? https://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html

Most any tubes intended for 406mm tire size can likely be made to work despite the narrower 1.4" tire size.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

Excellent info, thanks! Why do people have to make things so complex!?


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

So here it is with the 1.4" little joes and tubes that actually fit. Found some q-tubes 1.25-1.5" that are quite light. The tires were super easy to mount, didn't even need to use the lever on the rear.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

So apparently the 1.4" tire was not the way to go. The decreased tire diameter resulted in pedal strikes during sharp cornering on flat pavement and while pedaling on the pump track. The grip shifter is also causing issues, as are the worn pedals. Blackjack tires (1.9"), dmr v6 flat pedals (purple), shimano tourney top mount shifter, and purple oury grips on the way. She'll shorter crank arms if the pedal strikes are still an issue with the taller tires. Also I noticed when truing the wheels the rear hub could use some new bearings, so that will need to be addressed at some point.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

eyeballs said:


> So apparently the 1.4" tire was not the way to go. The decreased tire diameter resulted in pedal strikes during sharp cornering on flat pavement and while pedaling on the pump track. The grip shifter is also causing issues, as are the worn pedals. Blackjack tires (1.9"), dmr v6 flat pedals (purple), shimano tourney top mount shifter, and purple oury grips on the way. She'll shorter crank arms if the pedal strikes are still an issue with the taller tires. Also I noticed when truing the wheels the rear hub could use some new bearings, so that will need to be addressed at some point.


If you can, cancel/return the blackjacks and get some Maxxis MaxxDaddy 2.0s. They're hudge compared to 1.9 blackjacks, lightweight, have a beefier tread pattern and they're normally like $17 on Jenson.

Pedal strikes during turns are a technique problem. If she drops her inside pedal during turns she's going to hit them no matter how short the cranks are. Outside pedal at 6 o'clock during turns is a fundamental riding skill.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

The max daddy was actually the first tire I looked at, though from the photo I was thinking it might not shed mud well. I only paid $9 for the blackjacks. I was also looking at the 2.125 mad mike. After typing that previous post I realized it was a technique problem, but nonetheless it's one that was not interfering with riding in the past. I finally got her to start standing on the pedals, so pedal placement awareness should come soon.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

Subscribed...

For not quite such a deal, but my son had a from-CL Haro v.20 (looks to be almost the same bike)! Changed to a newer shifter, the same DMR pedals (in pink  ) and about to put on a pair of Schwalbes tonight. 

The bash guard on this one had broken off, and the chain falls fairly regularly if shifted to jump several gears at once. Then it gets stuck on the broken nubs when trying to put it back on! The little guy is doing such a great job of putting his own chain back on, I want to let him get comfortable with that--but ultimately thinking of a new crankset. 

I've seen enough warnings here to be slow to put money in the 20" though--especially as no siblings are following! 

How much of a difference with the new stem do you see? 

-Ridwan

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

Ridwan, I was unable to use the stem. The clamp area on the oe pivot handlebar is a smaller than standard diameter. I considered mounting up a bontrager bar I had laying around but I think even after cutting it down all the way it would be too wide for her. She continues to say she feels just right on the bike, so at least she doesn't mind the stretched/aggressive posture. If you find a short stem that fits, let me know!


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

Found a shim kit at one of the local bike stores and finally mounted up the new stem. Ailyn's riding posture looks much better, and she really likes the new look (I let her pick out the color when I ordered it).


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## peacob (Aug 21, 2011)

It would be cool as hell if you modded out of this thing over the course of the next year or two and kept updating.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

eyeballs said:


> Found a shim kit at one of the local bike stores and finally mounted up the new stem. Ailyn's riding posture looks much better, and she really likes the new look (I let her pick out the color when I ordered it).


Can you please post a side view? What width was the stem? (Black/gold looks great! )

Rowan's current positioning is aggressive, but it seems to suit his riding style, as he really just wants to jump on/off stuff... but I wonder if it's making it harder for him to pull back hips/pull up bars? (I'm new to this myself so. ..)









Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

peacob said:


> It would be cool as hell if you modded out of this thing over the course of the next year or two and kept updating.


Test

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

rabitoblanco said:


> Can you please post a side view? What width was the stem? (Black/gold looks great! )
> 
> Rowan's current positioning is aggressive, but it seems to suit his riding style, as he really just wants to jump on/off stuff... but I wonder if it's making it harder for him to pull back hips/pull up bars? (I'm new to this myself so. ..)


Short stem/higher bars should make it easier actually.
:thumbsup:


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

If he's hitting jumps and drops, the shorter stem will definitely help since it'll allow him to get his weight further back (which is good since too far forward can lead to an over-the-bars experience). I'll get another photo up of the stem. It's wider than the pivit stem but with a shorter stack height, and it came with adequate spacers.

After yesterday's researching I decided the handlebar clamp diameter is most likely 25.4mm, and found plenty of stem options for that size. If I did not find the shim kit, I would have gotten something like this:

Promax Downhill DH Mountain Bike Stem 40mm 40 25.4mm 25.4 Purple | eBay


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

Not sure on the width, I'll have to measure it.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

Thanks! And for the photo-- looking at it, makes sense that it would be easier to pull back. I think he's got 3 or 4 spacers under the handlebar already. 

I'll have to look into this converting a 26" fork idea-- or maybe find a 20" BMX fork that would be much lighter than the current SR Suntour. 

I weighed this thing yesterday-- 24.8lbs!


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

New stem is 1.75" wide at the face plate. Before I changed anything on Ailyn's haro I also got 24.8 lbs. Pretty heavy considering she only weighs 40 lbs. If I could find a rigid fork with v-brake mounts I'd definitely swap out. I like the 26" conversion idea, but after some searching it appears they are not easy to find.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

I wonder if this would fit: https://www.ebay.com/i/282473884602?chn=ps&dispItem=1

I'm guessing 28.6mm is the distance between the axle mounts. I'll have to measure that at home. If it matches up, I might have to try this!


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

eyeballs said:


> I wonder if this would fit: https://www.ebay.com/i/282473884602?chn=ps&dispItem=1
> 
> I'm guessing 28.6mm is the distance between the axle mounts. I'll have to measure that at home. If it matches up, I might have to try this!


There's two for sale-- you let me know, haha!

Meanwhile, to document something else about these bikes-- the "Prowheel Forged 2N 152" stamped crank arms + chainring weight 1.4lbs. (The bottom bracket on this one went...)


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

eyeballs said:


> I wonder if this would fit: https://www.ebay.com/i/282473884602?chn=ps&dispItem=1
> 
> I'm guessing 28.6mm is the distance between the axle mounts. I'll have to measure that at home. If it matches up, I might have to try this!


28.6mm (1-1/8") is the steer tube diameter, fork/hub width is typically 100mm.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

Thanks! I should have measured just now when I had the wheels off, but I think I'm going to wait a bit anyways before more upgrades. Just finished putting on the last of the new parts this morning. Unfortunately, even with the new shifter my daughter can only drop to smaller cogs and not up.


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

I took advantage of a sale at spawn for $100 off a savage 1.0, so I'm done messing with the haro. The bar height is quite a bit lower on the spawn, so I may end up having to put on a bar with more rise but I'll see how my daughter does with it for awhile. She was super exited but thought it was just for the pump track. She will not let go of the haro willingly. The pedals and grips will likely get swapped.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

@eyeballs --what happened to your photos? permissions change?


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## eyeballs (Sep 16, 2016)

Sorry. Photobucket has been horrible with all the ads lately. Super slow. Now they want me to pay for 3rd party hosting. I think I'm done with it. Are there any good photo storage/hosting sites that are free now? I imagine if photobucket is charging then most others are charging now too.


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