# Why doesn't MTBR have a 26" forum?



## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

I would assume because when they started the 650B and 29er forum they were more of a niche?
If this is the case seems a good time to start a 26" forum, lol.

Or is it that the industry is plotting to destroy the whole 26" market all together?


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## HippiGlass (Oct 13, 2014)

i like my 26er 27.5 didnt seem as nimble


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## qclabrat (Aug 16, 2011)

If the tire size isn't mentioned, its assumed to be 26, if I had only one mtb, it would be a 26er


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)




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## Mr. 68 Hundred (Feb 6, 2011)

*Really Beat It*


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## RiceBrnr (Oct 13, 2014)

It's a fade!


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## Tricker Joe (Dec 17, 2010)

Scroll down it's been there for a while "Vintage, Retro, Classic Forum.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

qclabrat said:


> If the tire size isn't mentioned, its assumed to be 26, if I had only one mtb, it would be a 26er


Maybe 10 years ago this was true. lol


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

cuz when you've always been cool you don't need the attention. ever.


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## mtnbikej (Sep 6, 2001)




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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

JookupVandetti said:


> Maybe 10 years ago this was true. lol


Still true, it never gets old but sometimes bears remembering/repeating.

What is this....the umpteenth time this has been posted in a new thread?


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Well to answer your question I'm not on MTBR all that much and I haven't seen it, so I thought I would ask. Let me know if I need to call any of you a wambulance.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

https://www.google.com/search?q=26e...la:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

Read away switch, and no thanks, I bike fast to blow the tears away.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Thank you for taking the time to post the link.

A little confused on this though.



dbhammercycle said:


> I bike fast to blow the tears away.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

No need for the wambulance. The tears that may obscure my vision are quickly dispersed to the breeze.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Why are you crying while riding??


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Tears of joy in the knowledge that mtb is good for the soul, tears of understanding that I will have to stop at some point and that the blissfull joy is momentary and fleeting, and tears of sorrow that while stopped I will check mtbr forums and inevitably encounter threads like this. Now go read, I have to hydrate.

Oh, and it's Waaah-mbulance.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Ahhh I understand now.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

JookupVandetti said:


> Why are you crying while riding??


Double rainbow across the sky. Duh!


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

JookupVandetti said:


> I would assume because when they started the 650B and 29er forum they were more of a niche?
> If this is the case seems a good time to start a 26" forum, lol.
> 
> Or is it that the industry is plotting to destroy the whole 26" market all together?


A 26er forum would make perfect sense now. 26" has become a niche, since 650B and 29ers are what the manufacturers are all building now. (They HAVE destroyed almost the whole 26" market as of the 2014 model year).

Those looking for a new 26er will be trying to track down the remaining new-old-stock 2013s (I was looking for a new bike for months by the time I finally found one). Those of us who have 26ers and continue to ride them will face increasing difficulty finding parts to keep them running. A 26er forum would be very useful to us.


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## ronski (Jul 28, 2009)

Tricker Joe said:


> Scroll down it's been there for a while "Vintage, Retro, Classic Forum.


Funny


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

^that could work cuz that's exactly how the other two options came to be the norm and thrive.

it could grow the interest and passion for a whole new gen of riders who never benefited from the skill levels that can be attained and mastered only by starting on a smaller wheel. it could promote the resurgence of uber tight tech gnar ribbons of singletrack littered with natural drops, hips, and lips that only can be hit with to its full potential with 26s. .......................................................................nah. nbd. go ride.


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## igno-mtb (Jul 18, 2014)

We need a 26 forum. It is very important.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Agreed a 26" forum is now needed.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

^says your stable?


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Maybe.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

JookupVandetti said:


> Maybe.


not hatin just statin. it's all good. i too lost my way once... at least the p3 is there to give you light at the end of the tunnel.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

End all wheel size forums. Pointless, and this forum has too many subforums anyway. 

Except for the fatbike sub. We're special.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

For me personally 26" is a disadvantage. I ride a friends FUEL 8 that is a 26" and it feels painstakingly slow. It doesn't carry speed, it's more difficult to fly through a rock garden and just isn't as fun to ride as a 29er, that's just me. He thinks 29ers are clown bikes lol. Now I haven't even ridden a 650B but I wanted a more aggressive bike for going down so I'm trying the Enduro in 650B. Mainly because I don't like 26" and I wanted to try something different. I'm a little worried I want like it as much as the 29.

Back to the point though...
26" bikes are more of a niche now, like it or not and for the 26" guys it seems it would be useful to have it's own forum.


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## RWhiz (Jun 10, 2013)

AllMountin' said:


> End all wheel size forums. Pointless, and this forum has too many subforums anyway.
> 
> Except for the fatbike sub. We're special.


Yes, yes you are.

To your other point, I agree, eliminate the wheel size sub forums just leads to division.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

AllMountin' said:


> Except for the fatbike sub. We're "special."


Fixed that for you. :thumbsup:


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

disagree. it doesn't need it's own forum. but it'll probably happen because someone needs validation. shut up and ride would be my vote.
regardless of preference, physics or marketing skill>wheel size. always.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

I can't make up my mind which bike I like best. I bought a 29er last October and for a while, really loved it. However, I took my 26er to Fruita and found I liked it. Crap - I am confused.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

Lawson Raider said:


> I can't make up my mind which bike I like best. I bought a 29er last October and for a while, really loved it. However, I took my 26er to Fruita and found I liked it. Crap - I am confused.


why confused? what's wrong with having a quiver? surfers and sailors use options cuz of conditions. enjoy both! it's not like you're choosing to drink lite beer over other beers. hehe


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

To qoute epic post stickied in Begginners forum...

"26” wheels or 29” or 650b or 700c or 24” or 20” or whatever – yes, that wheel size is rad and you’ll probably get where you’re going."


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## BobbyWilliams (Aug 3, 2004)

Phinias said:


> To qoute epic post stickied in Begginners forum...
> 
> "26" wheels or 29" or 650b or 700c or 24" or 20" or whatever - yes, that wheel size is rad and you'll probably get where you're going."


No no no!! you cant just go riding any wheel size. Clearly riding a 36" front wheel and a 10" rear wheel is the best combination for downhill/freeride. All the rest of your silly bikes with two of the same wheel sizes are going to be antiques if they aren't already!

Penny Farthing riding gets serious - YouTube


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## OLx6 (Feb 5, 2011)

mtnbikej said:


>


I am fine with a 26er forum, but this reply with the baby picture makes me laugh


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Ride the best tool for the job....OR...don't be a tool.


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

andytiedye said:


> Those of us who have 26ers and continue to ride them will face increasing difficulty finding parts to keep them running. A 26er forum would be very useful to us.


What parts will be hard to find? 160mm rotors? DH will keep decent rims, tires, tubes and rotors in stock. 650B forks aren't that big, and many frame AtoC specs are overly consevative. Bike came with max 100mm travel, but I found three 140mm forks, and eight 650b's that wouldn't void the warranty, and didn't count models dropped due to preference.

Yes, our options will begin to narrow, but there will be no dearth of 26'er parts. Twenty billion asians ride 26'ers, and no mfg is foolish enough to think demand for 26'er parts will dry up overnight because no new models are available. Production runs will be decreased, models will be eliminated, but there will be plenty of parts to keep us moving for another decade or two. Your 26er frame will crap out before parts production.


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

yes, three heads...


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## lidarman (Jan 12, 2004)

Why not a 24" forum?


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## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

To give you cube dwelling keyboard riders something to b*tch, whine and moan about?


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## desertred (Jun 9, 2010)

Seems like this thread would have been better suited for the General Discussion section, although it certainly appears to have generated some "passion".


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

andytiedye said:


> A 26er forum would make perfect sense now. 26" has become a niche, since 650B and 29ers are what the manufacturers are all building now. (They HAVE destroyed almost the whole 26" market as of the 2014 model year).
> 
> Those looking for a new 26er will be trying to track down the remaining new-old-stock 2013s (I was looking for a new bike for months by the time I finally found one). Those of us who have 26ers and continue to ride them will face increasing difficulty finding parts to keep them running. A 26er forum would be very useful to us.


Not true. ~30% of mountain bikes sold this year from bike dealers were 26". There were a good number of high end 26" bikes and frame available. 27.5" is still only 15% of the market.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Pricepoint is blowing out it's stock of 27.5" Intense frames and bikes. Why am I not suprised...?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

turbodog said:


> Not true. ~30% of mountain bikes sold this year from bike dealers were 26". There were a good number of high end 26" bikes and frame available. 27.5" is still only 15% of the market.


Oh? Where are you getting these statistics?

What high end 26" bikes, besides DH models, are still available?

Trek? Nope. DH/Park and DJ.

Giant? Nope. Glory has gone 27.5, no 26" models above $1000.

Specialized? Nope. Demo is going 27.5", Status is still 26".

Cannondale? Nope. Their Jekyll is going 27.5".

There are plenty of other big brands, and they are going the same way. And, big brands, particularly those mentioned above, make up the vast majority of sales in the US.

What companies are these mystery sales coming from?

Because DH bikes are a tiny, miniscule portion of the market, and they make up the majority of high-end, 26" bikes these days.


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## CS2 (Jul 24, 2007)

Tricker Joe said:


> Scroll down it's been there for a while "Vintage, Retro, Classic Forum.


Quite possibly the best sub forum here.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

turbodog said:


> Pricepoint is blowing out it's stock of 27.5" Intense frames and bikes. Why am I not suprised...?


And replacing them with 2015 models of the same wheelsize.

Oops?

I hate it when facts get in the way of an argument, don't you?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Oh? Where are you getting these statistics?
> 
> What high end 26" bikes, besides DH models, are still available?
> 
> ...


You're living in a bike industry marketing induced halucination.

I'm quoting ACTUAL bike industry sales figures. I'd link to them, but I truely think you should learn to think for yourself - go off and google them.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> And replacing them with 2015 models of the same wheelsize.
> 
> Oops?
> 
> I hate it when facts get in the way of an argument, don't you?


If they were actually as popular as the industry wishes/dreams/hopes they were, why would they be left with a huge amount of stock?


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

turbodog said:


> I'm quoting ACTUAL bike industry sales figures. I'd link to them, but I truely think you should learn to think for yourself - go off and google them.


That worked for me ALL the time on research papers in college. I was like, "Look, prof! These are the facts. If you don't believe me, get your ass into the library and look them up." That always turned out well for me.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

s0ckeyeus said:


> That worked for me ALL the time on research papers in college. I was like, "Look, prof! These are the facts. If you don't believe me, get your ass into the library and look them up." That always turned out well for me.


I've linked to them before. Its more productive to make people work for it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You're the one trying to tell us that 26" bikes still make up a significant portion of the high end bike market, despite the fact that many companies no longer make 26" XC, Trail or AM bikes. 

So, where are all of these bikes coming from? Who makes them? 

This is like saying that the compact pickup truck (Ford Ranger) is still a big seller in the US, despite Chevy, Ford, Toyota, and Dodge getting out of that market. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> You're the one trying to tell us that 26" bikes still make up a significant portion of the high end bike market, despite the fact that many companies no longer make 26" XC, Trail or AM bikes.
> 
> So, where are all of these bikes coming from? Who makes them?
> 
> ...


Riiight. There were numerous 26" trail bikes and frames available this year, if you bothered to look. Hard to find them now because they've mostly sold out.

Funny though, you go looking for 27.5", they are available everywhere. Tons of them. That would be great, but it's October and you're not supposed to have a bunch of expensive bikes and frames sitting around, especially when it's the new big thing. Ooops!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I'll say it again. Who makes them? What models? 

Show me your sales figures. Including a reputable source. 

Is this so hard?


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

turbodog said:


> I've linked to them before. Its more productive to make people work for it.


As long as you're winning in your own mind, that's what counts...right?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> I'll say it again. Who makes them? What models?
> 
> Show me your sales figures. Including a reputable source.
> 
> ...


If you were capable of doing your own homework vs. blindly inhaling the industry hype, you'd know what bikes I was talking about.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Or you can just name them. 


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

let's pick our wheel size and don't be ***** about it.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I don't really care. I just want to see actual sources named. I'm actually curious. 

Really, I think he's just making it up. Yes, I agree that manufacturers' marketing departments are driving the change, but I haven't SEEN a high end, non-DH 26" bike in several years. The source of the change is irrelevant if the bikes are no longer in production. 


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## BCTJ (Aug 22, 2011)

26" is going the way of the dodo.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

If you bring it up turbo, you should back it up. Link to your earlier posts or show the goods. I'm sorry you're still pissed about your 26 options narrowing, anger isn't good for the soul. I'll admit, I'm annoyed at the prospect of having to dig deeper to find quality parts for my 26ers, but maybe I'll adapt to become more Indiana like and treat it like a treasure hunt. I've also been here before with the lack of suntour components, but I got over it by riding my 2 wheels and allowing the anger to subside. Try it, you might like it.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> .......... I haven't SEEN a high end, non-DH 26" bike in several years.............


Well, clearly you're a dirt roadie that rides a hybrid, so I'm not sure why you're involved in this conversation. 26" is for people who _actually mountain bike_, so I can see why you wouldn't know anything about them.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Umm, all resources I could find list 27.5 as being far and away better sellers... from this time last year... As sales figures are not complete for the year they only have trends, which again show 26" sales behind 29" sales which are behind 27.5" sales. I think you should put a fork in this argument and start hoarding forks and rims for your soon to be antiques... lolz.


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

if there was a 26er forum it could be used to ask about 26er specific issues such as handle bars, saddles, grips, hubs, brakepads, seatposts, derailleurs, cranks, gear cables, headsets, bottom brackets, track pumps, stems, skewers...oh.....hang on...


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> Umm, all resources I could find list 27.5 as being far and away better sellers... from this time last year... As sales figures are not complete for the year they only have trends, which again show 26" sales behind 29" sales which are behind 27.5" sales. I think you should put a fork in this argument and start hoarding forks and rims for your soon to be antiques... lolz.


27.5" has NEVER, EVER, OUTSOLD 26", not even close.........learn how to read and interpret data. 29ers are outselling both. What are you, 14 years old?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> 27.5" has NEVER, EVER, OUTSOLD 26", not even close.........learn how to read and interpret data. 29ers are outselling both. What are you, 14 years old?


..."Sales

Right now 650b mountain bikes are selling. Not just selling, but selling like hotcakes. In a thread on the MTBR forums John Pentecost, International Sales Manager for Yeti Cycles, claimed that Yeti's 27.5″ wheeled bikes were outselling their 26ers at a ratio of 50 to 1. I'll repeat that: 50 to 1. With statistics like that, any bike company would be foolish not to increase sales 5000% by offering a 650b model. The buying public has spoken with their wallets and 650b is the size they want."...


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> ..."Sales
> 
> Right now 650b mountain bikes are selling. Not just selling, but selling like hotcakes. In a thread on the MTBR forums John Pentecost, International Sales Manager for Yeti Cycles, claimed that Yeti's 27.5″ wheeled bikes were outselling their 26ers at a ratio of 50 to 1. I'll repeat that: 50 to 1. With statistics like that, any bike company would be foolish not to increase sales 5000% by offering a 650b model. The buying public has spoken with their wallets and 650b is the size they want."...


ROFL! Yeti is luckly to sell 50 bikes in a year. Keep dreaming little man. Go find some real statisitics, not something spoon fed to you by a SALES MANAGER.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Stuart B said:


> if there was a 26er forum it could be used to ask about 26er specific issues such as handle bars, saddles, grips, hubs, brakepads, seatposts, derailleurs, cranks, gear cables, headsets, bottom brackets, track pumps, stems, skewers...oh.....hang on...


You forgot to mention kickstands, what about the kickstands?!


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

turbodog said:


> If you were capable of doing your own homework vs. blindly inhaling the industry hype, you'd know what bikes I was talking about.


Touche'


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

What kind of person gives a **** about industry sales numbers who is not on the payroll of a bike related business? Do you guys go getting all emotional about the sales of hamburgers vs tacos and **** too? Powdered detergent vs liquid? You secretly dream of being professional market analysts or something? The ****ing graphs are coming next right? 

Jeezus - I can't be bothered to care that much about the industry I get paid to be a part of, let alone one I have nothing to do with. 

I can get readily frames/forks/wheels/tires for any wheel size from 10" to 29". So why give a damn about sales figures/marketing hype? Just curious as to how that **** makes even the slighest difference whatsoever to anyone as a actual rider. (It obviously means a lot in the virtual world, but the virtual world means jack **** on the trail, as we all know. Or should know).


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

jayzus, even PBers are past this.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Yes, PBers are. Turbodog on the other side...


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> ROFL! Yeti is luckly to sell 50 bikes in a year. Keep dreaming little man. Go find some real statisitics, not something spoon fed to you by a SALES MANAGER.


And where are your "real" stats?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> And where are your "real" stats?


https://www.google.com/#q=IBD+sales

Funny how they stopped reporting 26" & 29er figures in June, and none at all have been published since.......................


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Haha & Holy smokes...why do some of you guys become so emotionally invested in a virtual argument? And to the guy claiming 26" sales are still strong...on what planet? Anybody that's shopped for a bike online or in stores CLEARLY knows 26" is all but gone. What more "research" need one do to become well acquainted with that fact?

On another note a 26" forum makes sense to me. It's clearly a niche market for trail bikes. If nothing else it would give people a resource to research what's left of the 26" market. Where they can find their gear (wheels, forks, etc.) and what frames are still available to them. Would even give a dedicated spot for 26" manufacturers to communicate directly to their market like they do on every other forum. Makes sense to me or am I missing something?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Well, I for one think it's time for a 26" wheel forum. It is by far the dominant wheel size.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

^ Trolling


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> https://www.google.com/#q=IBD+sales
> 
> Funny how they stopped reporting 26" & 29er figures in June, and none at all have been published since.......................


You do realize that that is a member organization and is not able to report on sales by non-members as they do not receive those calculations? If you look at the NBDA you will see similar but different stats. I would rely more on a composite of manufacturers sales numbers as they would be a better indicator. And yes I realize turbo is a p***poor example of a troll.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> You do realize that that is a member organization and is not able to report on sales by non-members as they do not receive those calculations? If you look at the NBDA you will see similar but different stats. I would rely more on a composite of manufacturers sales numbers as they would be a better indicator. And yes I realize turbo is a p***poor example of a troll.


MMMhhummm....pointless bluster much? They are a very valid source with a very large pool of shops surveyed, and they break out the numbers in a relevant manner.

Point is:

- Mountain bike sales are down 5-10% in the first half of the year
- 27.5" sales are floundering around 15-20%
- 27.5" are largely consuming 29er sales
- 26" are hanging tough at 30% of the market.

Bike Industry = Epic Fail.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

turbodog said:


> MMMhhummm....pointless bluster much? They are a very valid source with a very large pool of shops surveyed, and they break out the numbers in a relevant manner.
> 
> Point is:
> 
> ...


You forgot to add another number from the website you like to bring up so much and its famous statists:
400% increase in 27.5 sales in 1 year from may 2013...
Ohh I guess you just conveniently omitted the fact. Again.


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## mrniceguy42 (Nov 2, 2010)

turbodog said:


> MMMhhummm....pointless bluster much? They are a very valid source with a very large pool of shops surveyed, and they break out the numbers in a relevant manner.
> 
> Point is:
> 
> ...


I have spent the last hour reading turbodongs posts over the last year, let me say, I am not disappointed at all. Great e-literature.

I believe the facts actually, 30% of the market is 26'ers. 26'ers bought at walmart and end up in the trash within a year, just in time to head back to walmart to buy another 26er.

That is all...


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## norton55 (Oct 5, 2005)

desertred said:


> Seems like this thread would have been better suited for the General Discussion section, although it certainly appears to have generated some "passion".


This thread belongs in the recycle bin.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> You forgot to add another number from the website you like to bring up so much and its famous statists:
> 400% increase in 27.5 sales in 1 year from may 2013...
> Ohh I guess you just conveniently omitted the fact. Again.


Yeah, they went from like 3% (aka NOTHING) to 15%. That's not a trend, that's the industry deciding what they think is good for people (and their supply chain).


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

mrniceguy42 said:


> I have spent the last hour reading giantdong's posts over the last year, let me say, I am not disappointed at all. Great e-literature.
> 
> I believe the facts actually, 30% of the market is 26'ers. 26'ers bought at walmart and end up in the trash within a year, just in time to head back to walmart to buy another 26er.
> 
> That is all...


Sorry, the figures quoted are for IBD's - real bike dealers, not walmart.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

turbodog said:


> Not true. ~30% of mountain bikes sold this year from bike dealers were 26". There were a good number of high end 26" bikes and frame available. 27.5" is still only 15% of the market.


ahhh no.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

JookupVandetti said:


> ahhh no.


Awww, how cute. You can make a meme but you can't read.

I said, correctly, that the publicly available data for the year 2014, first half, conclusively shows that sales of 26" MTB's from IDB's (Independent Bicycle Dealers) accounts for about 30% of sales by dollar value. This excludes walmart bikes, but includes the low end of the IDB market, so many bikes in the $200-$1000 range. 650b is around 15-20%, and 29er is around 50-55%.

Note that this is by dollar figure. The average selling price of 650b bikes is in the $1500-$2000 range, while the average 26" bike is well under $1000. Combined with the dollar figures, this means that bike dealers are probably selling 4 times as many units of 26" bikes than they are of 650b bikes. By units, 650b is less than 10% of the market.

26" continues to be the dominant form of mountain bike, due to installed base, that is what most people own. 29er's have made some inroads with strong sales in the last few years. 650b's presence is vanishingly small - probably less than 1% of the mountain bikes out there are 650b - so if you own one, you should feel unique and special!

Please, tell me more!


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Wake me up when this one is over. Who cares? Ride what you like. Is it that difficult? Do we always have to be seeking admission to the cool kid's club?


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## carverboy (Sep 5, 2009)

The wife and I stopped into a Specialized dealer after our ride this weekend and were assured we
needed fat bikes as they were cushy and more fun to ride. 
Sigh, just when I was sure I enjoyed my bike.
Course these were the same folks who tisk tisked my 650b a few years ago and said Id never find tires or forks:skep:


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Stuart B said:


> if there was a 26er forum it could be used to ask about 26er specific issues such as handle bars, saddles, grips, hubs, brakepads, seatposts, derailleurs, cranks, gear cables, headsets, bottom brackets, track pumps, stems, skewers...oh.....hang on...


You forgot shifters. 


dbhammercycle said:


> You forgot to mention kickstands, what about the kickstands?!


Ironically kickstands may need to be wheel size specific soon, when the Walmart showroom is a mix of 26er, 29er, and those 32 inch novelty bikes.



turbodog said:


> Note that this is by dollar figure. The average selling price of 650b bikes is in the $1500-$2000 range, while the average 26" bike is well under $1000. Combined with the dollar figures, this means that bike dealers are probably selling 4 times as many units of 26" bikes than they are of 650b bikes. By units, 650b is less than 10% of the market.


You almost make a good argument, but there are many _tens of thousands_ more sub $1000 bikes sold every year than mid / high end bikes $2500+. This significantly biases the numbers in favor of your argument but none of those sub $1000 bikes are relevant to the majority of typical mtbr regulars.

It's like going on a Tesla forum and claiming electric cars are irrelevant because they're only a small percentage of sales.

Again, name a high end manufacturer with 26 inch models for 2015. Transition makes one. That's all I've seen. Name any other bike over $2500.


----------



## Slow Danger (Oct 9, 2009)

turbodog said:


> Riiight. There were numerous 26" trail bikes and frames available this year, if you bothered to look. Hard to find them now because they've mostly sold out.


Oh, you're talking about fat bikes. I get it now.


----------



## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

I'm a 650b fan, but also a 26er fan. I've also wondered why there isn't a 26er forum here. I kinda consider this site the premier MTB place on the net, and whether they are on their way out or not, there are a gazillion 26er MTBs out there, and they are still a very prevalent force in mountain biking, and I estimate will be popular with many riders for many years to come.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Procter said:


> You almost make a good argument, but there are many _tens of thousands_ more sub $1000 bikes sold every year than mid / high end bikes $2500+. This significantly biases the numbers in favor of your argument but none of those sub $1000 bikes are relevant to the majority of typical mtbr regulars.


Very good point, however, MTBR really isn't the mountain bike market. It's a very small fraction of riders who like to post on the internet. Only some people here ride relatively current high end bikes sold through traditional channels. Many people have older bikes, or midrange or entry level bikes, or custom assembled high end bikes.

As for the rest of the market, say 98% of people buying bikes that aren't posting on MTBR, the figures show that 26" is still being sold in real quantity, and these bikes are in fact real mountain bikes that can be ridden off road.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

You have specifically stated that 26ers still make up a significant portion of the high end bike market.

Whether that's >$1000, >$3000, or >$5000, there are simply not enough models of bike in those sizes, in significant quantities, to make that statement true.

A company like Specialized sells 50 29ers and 650Bs for every 26er DH bike they sell. Fact.

And, companies like Specialized, Trek, Giant, and Cannondale, sell more bikes in some STATES than companies like Transition does, world wide. Individually.

So, think about your math, and get back to us on that one.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

I don't really care about the argument, but it would be nice to have a 26" forum as it does seem frames, forks, etc.. are getting harder to find. I just wanted a 26er SS frame that wasn't high end and ended up having to go a size lower on a closeout just to get anything.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> You have specifically stated that 26ers still make up a significant portion of the high end bike market.
> 
> Whether that's >$1000, >$3000, or >$5000, there are simply not enough models of bike in those sizes, in significant quantities, to make that statement true.
> 
> ...


I take it you live in a world of pure fantasy, and have done little research besides what you read in Mountain Bike Action? Because that's what you sound like.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

turbodog said:


> I take it you live in a world of pure fantasy, and have done little research besides what you read in Mountain Bike Action? Because that's what you sound like.


82 days of relative calm and peace on these here forums are now over as the turded one has risen from the ashes to defend the indefensible.

It's no use arguing as el turdo has read everything there is to know about all wheel sizes and has proclaimed the 26" wheel the best in not only sales but the best riding wheels on a mountain bike. There is no need for el turdo to actually ride anything other than 26" so they have personal experience. The glorious turded one has spoken.

So it is written .... so it shall be!


----------



## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

ShinDiggity said:


> 82 days of relative calm and peace on these here forums are now over as the turded one has risen from the ashes to defend the indefensible.
> 
> It's no use arguing as el turdo has read everything there is to know about all wheel sizes and has proclaimed the 26" wheel the best in not only sales but the best riding wheels on a mountain bike. There is no need for el turdo to actually ride anything other than 26" so they have personal experience. The glorious turded one has spoken.
> 
> So it is written .... so it shall be!


You haven't changed a bit! Right back in with the insults and straw man arguements. Yawn.


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

Well thanks a lot Turd Dog when to my LBS and they had zero 26ers and when I asked them why not since they are still the best selling bike I got laughed right out of all of them. I'm pretty sure one asked me not to come back.
However when I went to WalMart and asked if they had any 26ers they no idea wtf I was talking about, yet they had quite a few in stock.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

turbodog said:


> You haven't changed a bit! Right back in with the insults and straw man arguements. Yawn.


And neither have you Oompa Loompa ... neither have you.


----------



## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> Very good point, however, MTBR really isn't the mountain bike market. It's a very small fraction of riders who like to post on the internet. Only some people here ride relatively current high end bikes sold through traditional channels. Many people have older bikes, or midrange or entry level bikes, or custom assembled high end bikes.
> 
> As for the rest of the market, say 98% of people buying bikes that aren't posting on MTBR, the figures show that 26" is still being sold in real quantity, and these bikes are in fact real mountain bikes that can be ridden off road.


Installed market is not bikes being sold. You are trying to argue that 26ers are still relavent to new bike sales, because they used to sell alot of them.... As to wheel size if you removed fat bikes with 26" wheels which are lumped into your suposed figures it would be a completely different story. DH, a few die hard customs, fat bikes, NOS, and walley world specials make up that figure. NOS, and fat bikes should be removed from this figure as they skew your numbers.

Also, the site you are liking to lean on has yet to publish any providence behind their stats, and have few chain retailers as members... again those stats are laughable on a whole.


----------



## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

JookupVandetti said:


> Well thanks a lot Turd Dog when to my LBS and they had zero 26ers and when I asked them why not since they are still the best selling bike I got laughed right out of all of them. I'm pretty sure one asked me not to come back.
> However when I went to WalMart and asked if they had any 26ers they no idea wtf I was talking about, yet they had quite a few in stock.





ShinDiggity said:


> And neither have you Oompa Loompa ... neither have you.
> 
> View attachment 934642


Is this one of you guys....?


----------



## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

turbodog said:


> Very good point, however, MTBR really isn't the mountain bike market. It's a very small fraction of riders who like to post on the internet. Only some people here ride relatively current high end bikes sold through traditional channels. Many people have older bikes, or midrange or entry level bikes, or custom assembled high end bikes.
> 
> As for the rest of the market, say 98% of people buying bikes that aren't posting on MTBR, the figures show that 26" is still being sold in real quantity, and these bikes are in fact real mountain bikes that can be ridden off road.


Well ok, looks like we're at a conclusion then.

TD is probably right about the market overall, when you consider the totality of bikes sold at IBDs, usually starting $350 and up, yes there will be MANY more of the sub $1000 bikes sold than the $1000+ bikes. So take trek for example, it's probably selling thousands more '3 series' and 820s (both 26) than Marlins and higher. This will in fact result in the numbers that TD quotes.

On the other hand, the rest of us on the thread are also right because those low end bikes just aren't at all relevant and not what most here would consider a true mountain ready steed.

That part is the debate is complete.

Even though I still own primarily 26ers, I agree with Stuart B that a 26er forum would be mostly filled with inane chatter which has nothing to do with the actual specifics and nuances of 26" bikes.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Procter said:


> Well ok, looks like we're at a conclusion then.
> 
> TD is probably right about the market overall, when you consider the totality of bikes sold at IBDs, usually starting $350 and up, yes there will be MANY more of the sub $1000 bikes sold than the $1000+ bikes. So take trek for example, it's probably selling thousands more '3 series' and 820s (both 26) than Marlins and higher. This will in fact result in the numbers that TD quotes.
> 
> ...


You are correct. However, these lower end bikes can be and certainly are ridden off road. Not everyone can afford a $1500 bike, and a modern $500 26" bike is an excellent entry level bike for many people.

As for the high end, there are certainly 26" options available, and they are still selling.

Mountain Bikes & Frames - Full Suspension & Hard Tail | Competitive Cyclist

Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> ...Complete Bikes > Mountain Bikes | Jenson USA


HA!! all NOS or DH only..... too funny, did you even look at the results?


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

norton55 said:


> This thread belongs in the recycle bin.


sure doesn't belong in the 'passion' forum. I also agree with TD...from 3 to 15 is not nothing. From what I've seen and read in the past month, 27.5s are coming on STRONG...think they are here to stay, and with good reason.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> HA!! all NOS or DH only..... too funny, did you even look at the results?


Are you blind...?


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

so...good job gentlemen. i think you're slowly creating the 26 forum as we speak! just gotta get past the whl size circle jerk and find a common interest with the 26 and we're gold!


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

Phinias said:


> HA!! all NOS or DH only..... too funny, did you even look at the results?





turbodog said:


> Are you blind...?


*Jenson link: *

Not helping your case:

 Several GT fury DH, which is 27.5 for 2015
Giant Glory and Giant Reign, both of which are 27.5 for 2015
A couple 2011/2012 Jamis, old stock. They are 27.5 or 29 for 2015.
A low end GT Avalanche
A mid range Diamondback, Diamondback is all 27.5/29 except in their low end city/light trail. Check their site.

Helping your case:

Ibis Mojo SL: Ibis will still continue SLR and HDR in 26inch in 2015. Ibis has 2 26ers out of 5 in their line for 2015, they are somewhat of an anomaly. 
​
*Competitive Cycles Link:*
Not helping your case:


Santa Cruz V10: 27.5 for 2015
Santa Cruz Blur and Nomad: Both going to 27.5 for 2015. After the V10 goes 27.5, only the Jackal (DJ) will be 26 in the Santa Cruz line.
Yeti ASR5C: not made any more
Yeti SB66: no longer offered for 2015 
BMC Trailfox: 29 for 2015. They will only offer a single low-end 26
Intense: All 27.5 or 29 for 2015

Somewhat helping your case

Pivot Phoenix DH: Alloy continues as 26 for 2015, carbon will be 27.5 for 2015
Mach 5.7 and mach 4 alloy: Will continue to be 26 for 2015, but, overall most of Pivot's line is 27.5 or 29. Excluding Point (DJ), M4X (DJ), and Phoenix (DH), only 2 of 11 trail/all mountain bikes are 26


Sorry TD, on the balance, you're wrong.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Procter said:


> *Jenson link: *
> 
> Not helping your case:
> 
> ...


Wrong about what? Those are examples of high end 26" bikes that are still available. From two of the largest online retailers. There are other sources out there too. Clearly, they are not the majority of the market, but they are certainly still available and being sold.

Seriously, the reading comprehension here is horrific.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

W


turbodog said:


> Wrong about what? Those are examples of high end 26" bikes that are still available. From two of the largest online retailers. There are other sources out there too. Clearly, they are not the majority of the market, but they are certainly still available and being sold.
> 
> Seriously, the reading comprehension here is horrific.


The point Procter was making is that majority of those 26" bikes are just old stock. Most of them are not being produced anymore. When they are finally sold (it might take a while even with those huge discounts...) there won't be any 26" replacement coming.
If the 26" is still so popular, how come they have not been sold out yet? 40%+ off SB66 has been on the web for almost a year now... Where is the 26" fun base when the good deal can be had? High end 26" is not selling anymore. FACT


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

In every group ride I'm on, I'm usually either the only one with 26" tires or one of two people with 26" tires. Just about every serious rider I pass has something other than 26" and every rider that passes me has a something other than 26" (usually 29"). That's just the way it's been going.

Honestly, the only reason I have a 26" bike is that it's 7 years old, and I haven't bought a new one yet. Just about all the bikes in shops around town seem to be 29ers with some 27.5" thrown in. If 26" are out because they are selling like hotcakes, the riders must not be riding the trails.

Turbodog's stance doesn't correlate with my experience at all.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

s0ckeyeus said:


> In every group ride I'm on, I'm usually either the only one with 26" tires or one of two people with 26" tires. Just about every serious rider I pass has something other than 26" and every rider that passes me has a something other than 26" (usually 29"). That's just the way it's been going.
> 
> Honestly, the only reason I have a 26" bike is that it's 7 years old, and I haven't bought a new one yet. Just about all the bikes in shops around town seem to be 29ers with some 27.5" thrown in. If 26" are out because they are selling like hotcakes, the riders must not be riding the trails.
> 
> Turbodog's stance doesn't correlate with my experience at all.


I see about 60% 26" and 40% 29er. About 1% 650b.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

turbodog said:


> I see about 60% 26" and 40% 29er. About 1% 650b.


Ohh now I get it.
What planet are you living on again?


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## Stuart B (Mar 21, 2005)

turbodog said:


> I see about 60% 26" and 40% 29er. About 1% 650b.


I see about 100% on mountain bikes and 100% on mountain bikes. About 100% on mountain bikes.

Honestly why does it matter?


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

You think it's bad for 26" now? Try clicking that link one year from now.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

turbodog said:


> Wrong about what? Those are examples of high end 26" bikes that are still available. From two of the largest online retailers. There are other sources out there too. Clearly, they are not the majority of the market, but they are certainly still available and being sold.
> 
> Seriously, the reading comprehension here is horrific.


Easy chief. I'm not mudslinging. I'm trying to have a rational debate. Let's back to your original post:



turbodog said:


> Not true. ~30% of mountain bikes sold this year from bike dealers were 26". There were a good number of high end 26" bikes and frame available. 27.5" is still only 15% of the market.


What I'm saying is:
A) Your comment about 30% includes IBD numbers which are biased by lower end bikes
B) You are right that, as of this moment, end of year 2014, there are still 26ers available. But you are wrong that there is still a strong market for high end 26, and that they are not going away. The links you provided, like Phinias said, are primarily new-old stock, discontinued bikes, and 2014 and prior years models. 2015 will see substantially fewer 26 inch bikes in mid range and above (let's say $1500-$2000 ). Don't take my word for it, check the sites for those manufacturers. I looked at every single one of those sites and carefully inspected their 2015 line to conclude that. The 26ers that will still be around for 2015 will be primarily a few DH bikes and dirt jumpers will sell in far fewer numbers than Trail/AM bikes which are the bread and butter. Excluding DH and DJ, Ibis has the highest proportion of 26ers in their line at 40% (2 out of 5). 26ers (for the sake of this forum, which primarily focuses on mid/high range bikes) ARE going away.

If can't capitulate the point you're just socking.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> Ohh now I get it.
> What planet are you living on again?


I mountain bike on real trails, not dirt roads. It's actually shocking that I see any 29er's at all....but when I do they are usually flailing around, like this:


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

Procter said:


> Easy chief. I'm not mudslinging. I'm trying to have a rational debate. Let's back to your original post:
> 
> What I'm saying is:
> A) Your comment about 30% includes IBD numbers which are biased by lower end bikes
> ...


Ibis is releasing a new 27.5 150mm bike soon. It will most likely replace their current 26" offering.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Procter said:


> Easy chief. I'm not mudslinging. I'm trying to have a rational debate. Let's back to your original post:
> 
> What I'm saying is:
> A) Your comment about 30% includes IBD numbers which are biased by lower end bikes
> ...


I don't disagree, the industry's marketing and lack of support has made huge negative impact on 26" sales.

2015 will also be one of the worst years for sales in the modern mountain biking era. 650b will continue to fall flat on it's face as it already did this year.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

JACKL said:


> You think it's bad for 26" now? Try clicking that link one year from now.


You'll see many more 26" wheel bikes for 2016.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

turbodog said:


> You'll see many more 26" wheel bikes for 2016.


i like yer positive attitude, turbodog! if the brand i ride stops makin 'em then it's off to europe ebay for me.


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## TahoeBC (Apr 11, 2006)

I know some folks running 26" wheels on 27.5 frames and loving it...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I did a ride on my new-to-me 26" FS with a few hundred people Sunday on a whole bunch of great techy trails. Wheel size and type of bike (FS, SS, rigid, geared, fat, nice, shitty, old, new) had absolutely zilch to do with who passed who or who had more fun. I rode past tons of people every conceivable type of bike, and was passed by people on every conceivable type of bike. 

Who gives a **** what's selling more? Still doesn't mean anything on the trail.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

TahoeBC said:


> I know some folks running 26" wheels on 27.5 frames and loving it...


I think you'll end up seeing most high end FS frames having replaceable dropouts that accommodate a 26" or 27" wheel. Sounds like a good start to run 26" on the 650b bikes, but you automatically add a half inch of chainstay length vs. a similar design purpose built for 26".


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## IFallDown (Mar 2, 2014)

Wow look at all this internet testosterone!!! 

You are all right!! Now let's ride


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

Turbodog sure is funny. Elevating a wheel size preference to a religion is awesome. I like 29er wheels and when I first started riding them, they were considered weird and stupid. Lots of naysayers. Now everybody takes them for granted. However, I don't put big wheels up on a shrine and sacrifice goats to them like Turbodog does for his sacred 26 inch wheels. He'll still be clutching his little wheels and believing in their magical powers long after they are dead and gone from the market. The demise of the 26 inch wheel for most mountain bikes (except fat, dirt jump,or DH) is pretty much a done deal at this point.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Here's my 26er.








Here's my 26er with 29er wheels.


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## Montanadan (Sep 19, 2014)

Jayem said:


> Here's my 26er.
> View attachment 934973
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not really a fat-tire bike, but that thing is freaking sweet man


----------



## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

turbodog said:


> I see about 60% 26" and 40% 29er. About 1% 650b.


Obviously, I can't tell you what you see on the trails (and maybe 26ers are still a thing in "Nowhere"), but those numbers haven't matched my experience in years. The only place I've seen a similar ratio is at a trail system with a mix of DH runs and regular trails, where most of the riders are DHers.

One frustrating thing is hearing about how bigger wheels help yadda yadda yadda and then seeing riders take cheater lines and skip all the fun stuff. If your bike makes it easier to ride over roots and rocks, shouldn't you be able to ride more than you could before?


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

To me, we need a 26" forum the same reason we have a 650 and a 29er forum...its much like a religion to some. Common sense would say there isn't anything particular to the three wheel sizes that requires separate discussion (a bike is a bike) but b/c of the almost religious followings, why not just do it and stay consistent? I believe the notion was that 650/29er were the odd-balls at one time and 26 was the norm so it didn't need its own forum but that is simply not the case any longer. The norm is a bit blurry now and is really any of the three and is closely connected to the type of bike/riding i.e. for mid- to upper-end XC HTs and FSs...29ers dominate, for longer-travel FS, 650b is taking hold but 26 is still common etc.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> I don't disagree, the industry's marketing and lack of support has made huge negative impact on 26" sales.
> 
> 2015 will also be one of the worst years for sales in the modern mountain biking era. 650b will continue to fall flat on it's face as it already did this year.


I suggest taking an econ course, you need a refresher on how Capitalism works... Market all you want but if 26" was better, and people still purchased them then they would also still be manufacturing them instead of having a slight sales bump because of super deep discounts 50% and more on NOS inflating the dismal decline in demand as they are being discontinued across the board in all segments except for niche purpose bikes.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Thor29 said:


> The demise of the 26 inch wheel for most mountain bikes (except fat, dirt jump,or DH) is pretty much a done deal at this point.


Pure fantasy. The large majority of mountain bikes are 26".


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> I suggest taking an econ course, you need a refresher on how Capitalism works... Market all you want but if 26" was better, and people still purchased them then they would also still be manufacturing them instead of having a slight sales bump because of super deep discounts 50% and more on NOS inflating the dismal decline in demand as they are being discontinued across the board in all segments except for niche purpose bikes.


Do you own a bunch of Apple products...? How about Bose? Do you drive an Audi?


----------



## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> Do you own a bunch of Apple products...? How about Bose? Do you drive an Audi?


Thanks for making my point.... Do you have a valid argument, or just logical falacies and un-scientific observations?


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

we may have preferences but when it becomes a religion to ya it's not simply about the ride anymore. you're whlsize fundamentalist at that point and that, to quote from a post "is sofa king we todded"


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> Thanks for making my point.... Do you have a valid argument, or just logical falacies and un-scientific observations?


So, do you own any of those products or do you not? Or do you own all three?


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> So, do you own any of those products or do you not? Or do you own all three?


How would whatever my answer be help your argument? I think it is you as opposed to those 29ers who are flailing around now. 26ers is a dying format. think floppy disc or carburator. There are very few 26ers that will be made new this year, those being sold still are years old NOS being sold at deep discounts (the only reason it has a signifigant share of sales). And your attempt to troll is really pathetic, but amusing, like a new horse trying to stand for the first time...


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> How would whatever my answer be help your argument? I think it is you as opposed to those 29ers who are flailing around now. 26ers is a dying format. think floppy disc or carburator. There are very few 26ers that will be made new this year, those being sold still are years old NOS being sold at deep discounts (the only reason it has a signifigant share of sales). And your attempt to troll is really pathetic, but amusing, like a new horse trying to stand for the first time...


You're avoiding the question. You made a comment about marketing vs. demand. Do you own products from those companies? I'm guessing you do - all of them.


----------



## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

My wife and I own 2 iPhones and 1 MacBook Pro... I also Own a Kindle, 2 Alienwares (older pre Dell), 2 home-built PC's, as well as a Samsung Galaxy Pro 10.1 and 12" tablets. I fail to see how this will help you. As for vehicles I have a 2007 Saab wagon, my wife a 2004 Saturn Vue (yes both of our bikes are more expensive then both of our cars), and we have 2 motorcycles 1 Triumph Rocket 3 (2007) and a 2005 Suzuki c50. I have purchased nothing from Bose, however I was given a pair of their ear buds as an award from work for something. I honestly have no idea of all the mismash of AV equipment in my house. Again what is your point?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> My wife and I own 2 iPhones and 1 MacBook Pro... I also Own a Kindle, 2 Alienwares (older pre Dell), 2 home-built PC's, as well as a Samsung Galaxy Pro 10.1 and 12" tablets. I fail to see how this will help you. As for vehicles I have a 2007 Saab wagon, my wife a 2004 Saturn Vue (yes both of our bikes are more expensive then both of our cars), and we have 2 motorcycles 1 Triumph Rocket 3 (2007) and a 2005 Suzuki c50. I have purchased nothing from Bose, however I was given a pair of their ear buds as an award from work for something. I honestly have no idea of all the mismash of AV equipment in my house. Again what is your point?


Apple sucks.


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## Old Ray (Sep 5, 2010)

Phinias said:


> I suggest taking an econ course, you need a refresher on how Capitalism works... Market all you want but if 26" was better, and people still purchased them then they would also still be manufacturing them instead of having a slight sales bump because of super deep discounts 50% and more on NOS inflating the dismal decline in demand as they are being discontinued across the board in all segments except for niche purpose bikes.


Having both a 26er and a 29er, I have to say that the difference in avg. speed on routes covering the same trails is negligible, if there is a difference, at all.

The 29er SHOULD be the faster bike; it's got only 120mm travel, and a 2X10 X9 drivetrain, while the 26er has only a 1X10 X9 drivetrain, and it's also an old single pivot freeride frame with 180mm rear wheel travel.

On paper, the 29er should gobble it up on the XC-ish trails that I have around here.

But no. Both bikes get within .5mph avg. speeds on all of those rides.

The only time the 29er rides significantly faster is on those routes where I ride 5-10 miles of pavement to the trails. Then the extra high gears and the lockable suspension pay off.

FWIW, I'm having no trouble finding the higher-priced 26" tires I like to use , either, so at least the tire companies are still catering to the higher-end 26" customers.


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## C.P. (Sep 17, 2005)

Back to the original question: What's the big deal if there's a 26" specific sub forum. I see none. Two DH sub forums could be interesting!

Time for a bike ride...beauty of a day outside.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

turbodog said:


> 26 inch wheels and my logic sucks.


fFixed for you....


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

turbodog said:


> Pure fantasy. The large majority of mountain bikes are 26".


That's true for currently existing mountain bikes, sure. I guess to be perfectly accurate I should have said NEW mountain bikes.

As everyone has pointed out over and over again, and you have refused to acknowledge, most manufacturers are dropping 26 inch wheels from their lineup except maybe at the very bottom end. Eventually even the entry level bikes will only be available in 27.5 or 29.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Personally get rid of all the wheel specific forums... Is there really a need for specific wheel size forum?


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## Esses (May 10, 2012)

Wasn't the point something regarding availability of parts? So Turbodog thinks that since Trek is still selling a ton of cheap 26" bikes we're set for parts for the next ten years?


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

turbodog said:


> I don't disagree, the industry's marketing and lack of support has made huge negative impact on 26" sales.
> 
> 2015 will also be one of the worst years for sales in the modern mountain biking era. 650b will continue to fall flat on it's face as it already did this year.


Hey TD -

So couple problems with that prediction:

First, you're implying that 2015 will be bad _because _ bike companies aren't selling 26ers. Companies aren't stupid. They could easily continue selling their existing 26" frame designs, probably at higher margin than the newer 27.5, because their suppliers are already tooled up and the R&D cost is already capitalized / depreciated. They do market research. FC has had these surveys on mtbr. If there was 26er demand, they would know it. They aren't colluding. They don't all agree together to stop offering 26ers. It's every company for themselves.

The reality is that they stopped making 26er because demand dropped off.

If sales do suck, you will say you were right but there will be no way to tell whether they would have been better if 26ers were still around. There is no other universe to compare to for a controlled experiment. It could be a million reasons, macro economics, changing tastes, maybe we will have bad weather biking shortening the season....

Secondly, think about actual consumer behavior. Something usually needs to inspire pulling the trigger for buying a new bike. Usually that's new technology of some sort. In the last few years, there's been marginal additional utility in the 26ers produced. Not a lot of difference.

You have experienced bikers due for a new bike waiting to pull the trigger. Now they're going to hold off? Because there's no 26ers? Hold off for what? For 26ers to come back? Who would predict that, looking at the trend today?

You also have noobs, contemplating entering mountain biking . Are they going lose interest, just because they can only get 27.5 and 29? They don't know the difference.

So who are these masses of potential buyers who will delay or leave the market? What is their psychology?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Esses said:


> Wasn't the point something regarding availability of parts? So Turbodog thinks that since Trek is still selling a ton of cheap 26" bikes we're set for parts for the next ten years?


Even if they weren't, I really wouldn't worry too much about availability of parts. You'll be able to find them for the rest of your life in all likelihood. I can still find NOS parts for BMX bikes, etc much older than 10 years w/o a problem.

This is why all this market analysis stuff means nothing as far as what you want to ride, unless you're the type that gets all uber-geek about it for some godforsaken reason.

26" sales support dropped off because the bikes that were out there already worked great and 'the industry' ran out of gimmicks to get people who already had bikes they were perfectly happy with to ditch them and spend a bunch of coin to replace them. When a customer would come in thinking of upgrading and asked the big question 'well, what would make this new bike so much better than the one I already have?", they ran out of convincing answers. So, along comes the magic bullet, "it's got 29" wheels, it's 1000000 times better at everything".

Then, reality set in, and a lot of people found out that the big wheels didn't do all they were supposed to, so there's a shift back to smaller wheels now, the latest 'magic bullet'. Personally, I hated wagon wheels, so I skipped that phase, and I don't see much difference between 26" and 27.5", so I'm not feeling any big need to dump a bunch of dough on one of those either, as long as I can keep what I already have up and running. Far as I can tell, I haven't become any worse of a rider from eschewing the newest tech, and I haven't seen a whole bunch of people all of a sudden becoming better riders due to it, so screw it, I'm keeping my money in my pocket.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Thor29 said:


> That's true for currently existing mountain bikes, sure. I guess to be perfectly accurate I should have said NEW mountain bikes.
> 
> As everyone has pointed out over and over again, and you have refused to acknowledge, most manufacturers are dropping 26 inch wheels from their lineup except maybe at the very bottom end. Eventually even the entry level bikes will only be available in 27.5 or 29.


I am well aware of the perception/marketing. I'm also aware that perception does not match reality.

Eventually, as early as next year, the industry will figure out they made a huge mistake, and will offer mainly 26" again.


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## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

Has anyone mentioned how there was a 26 forum on this website? It just recently disappeared.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Procter said:


> Hey TD -
> 
> So couple problems with that prediction:
> 
> ...


Actually, no. You could not be more wrong.

The industry's marketing has been an abysmal failure resulting in damage to their market and a complete loss of crediblity.

At some point somebody decided 29er's would be the next big thing. They roll better! They roll over stuff better! Smoother ride! They are _superior_. There are a large number of fairly inexperienced cyclists with too much money to spend, that will believe anything Mountain Bike Action tells them. A large number of them went right ahead and dropped $$$$ on 29ers because someone said they were the shizzzz. Problem is - what does that make 26" in these (moronic) customer's eyes.....not the shizzz?

There are some experienced bikers out there that know that there are distinct advantages to 26", and that each wheel size has it's place - dirt roads for 29'ers, mountain trails for 26".

But the way 29er's were sold - propagating the farce that this is "superior new technology" means that there has to be a "inferior old technology". A winner and a loser. Which is absolutely false. Having a larger wheel is NOT new technology - anyone who calls it that is a moron. *Its having a larger size wheel. Thats it.*

Having sold a bunch of new 29er's to the people they could trick....now, there's an even NEWER! BETTER! WHEEL SIZE TECHNOLOGY! 650b!!! (Just so Giant doesn't have to stock two different wheel sizes)

Does anybody believe these marketing clowns anymore? Many people don't, and aren't buying. They failed because when they introduced something new, they ignorantly disparaged the old standard which many people liked and had no problem with - a great way to wreck your market.


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

O


turbodog said:


> Actually, no. You could not be more wrong.
> 
> The industry's marketing has been an abysmal failure resulting in damage to their market and a complete loss of crediblity.
> 
> ...


Ohh please. 
I know, you were dormant for several years and missed the whole grassroots movement in 29 and 650b development.
But it has been explained to you several times here and you just continue to sing your old song. Again and again and again, just like an old gramophone.
You are not convincing anyone here with your fantasies. Why? Because they are fantasies and deep inside you know it too.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

turbodog said:


> Actually, no. You could not be more wrong.
> 
> The industry's marketing has been an abysmal failure resulting in damage to their market and a complete loss of crediblity.
> 
> ...


Ah, I get it. So they all get in a room together every year, and decide, here's our plan. It's like in the Godfather.

Yeti wants to sell 26ers, "I mean, Vito, with all due respect, we're pushing this new junk, people still want their 26er fix! They're still selling like queludes!"

But, it's a cartel... the big families, trek, giant and specialized shoot it down. Get back in line, yeti. 26ers are only for the low end. For the dregs of society. Not for respectable bikers. We need to control the supply! Pivot sells some on the side, when the Godfather finds out, pivot's gonna be wearing cement galoshes. "Hey Clemenza, how's pivot?" . . . "Oh, Pivot? Won't see him no more."

Got it.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

Good gawd turdo. You write the same thing ad nauseum. We get it. We all know your an attention starved individual.

Nobody cares what you think. Nobody believes what you write. If only MTBR would give you your own little forum to stay on we would all be better off. Maybe they could throw you in there and lock you up. 

We want back the silence of the 82 days you were recently and blessedly quiet. Don't go away mad .... just go away. I'm sure you won't but we can all hope.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

slapheadmofo said:


> Even if they weren't, I really wouldn't worry too much about availability of parts. You'll be able to find them for the rest of your life in all likelihood. I can still find NOS parts for BMX bikes, etc much older than 10 years w/o a problem.
> 
> This is why all this market analysis stuff means nothing as far as what you want to ride, unless you're the type that gets all uber-geek about it for some godforsaken reason.
> 
> ...


Agree, see above. But I say there is 650b-backlash going on right now, and that it will continue.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

ShinDiggity said:


> Good gawd turdo. You write the same thing ad nauseum. We get it. We all know your an attention starved individual.
> 
> Nobody cares what you think. Nobody believes what you write. If only MTBR would give you your own little forum to stay on we would all be better off. Maybe they could throw you in there and lock you up.
> 
> We want back the silence of the 82 days you were recently and blessedly quiet. Don't go away mad .... just go away. I'm sure you won't but we can all hope.


Post reported for stalking and harrassment.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> O
> 
> Ohh please.
> I know, you were dormant for several years and missed the whole grassroots movement in 29 and 650b development.
> ...


Actually, you're the one who is diluding yourself if you can't see through the marketing smokescreen here. You need to step out of the MTBR echo chamber.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

turbodog said:


> Post reported for stalking and harrassment.


Yeah we've been down this road before. You have a hard time fighting your own battles so you want someone else to do it for you. Did you have to call mommy when the neighborhood kids got fed up with you? My guess would be yes.

Weak. So weak you should bump a 2 1/2 month old thread that has something to do with 26" wheels to support your "agenda" ... sock puppet style. Ooops ... you did just that.

You're simply morbid entertainment. It is close to Halloween after all.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

ShinDiggity said:


> Yeah we've been down this road before. You have a hard time fighting your own battles so you want someone else to do it for you. Did you have to call mommy when the neighborhood kids got fed up with you? My guess would be yes.
> 
> Weak. So weak you should bump a 2 1/2 month old thread that has something to do with 26" wheels to support your "agenda" ... sock puppet style. Ooops ... you did just that.
> 
> You're simply morbid entertainment. It is close to Halloween after all.


Everyone is free to review your post history. It's 90% harrassing me and anyone else who likes 26". I'm pretty sure you're a sock puppet and industry shill. Your posts bring nothing to the table, they are only stalking, harrassment and insults. You are a complete waste of time.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

turbodog said:


> Everyone is free to review your post history. It's 90% harrassing me and anyone else who likes 26". I'm pretty sure you're a sock puppet or troll. Your posts bring nothing to the table, they are only stalking, harrassment and insults. You are a complete waste of time.


Unwad your panties big fella. It's all in fun. Besides we all want to hear you say the same thing for the hundredth time on the hundredth thread on the hundredth forum.

And by the way ... it's only you I harass. Target enriched environment and all. But if you can't handle it ... I'll just go ride my bike with whatever wheel size I want.


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

Sorry Turbo, this was amusing or maybe I was just morbidly fascinated by you, much like debateing science with those who think the world is just 5000 years old. Now its done just like your preferred wheel size, be it market or marketing the reality is that 26ers are done for the foreseeable future as far as new manufacture is going.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

jazzanova said:


> O
> 
> Ohh please.
> I know, you were dormant for several years and missed the whole grassroots movement in 29 and 650b development.


Niether exploded in popularity because of the grassroots aspect of their development.

Please stop all this 29r marketing tosh!!! You don't fool me!!! « Singletrack Forum


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## Phinias (Aug 28, 2014)

So your proof is some hacks forum post from another forum? Well heck I am convinced, I will immediately go out and sell my 2 29ers and the 27.5 my wife just ordered... Could you recommend a couple of new bikes in 26" for us?


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## Bryan1113 (Feb 21, 2013)

Ice cream truck


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Phinias said:


> So your proof is some hacks forum post from another forum? Well heck I am convinced, I will immediately go out and sell my 2 29ers and the 27.5 my wife just ordered... Could you recommend a couple of new bikes in 26" for us?


Not just hacks............._British_ hacks.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

I have compiled here a bunch of stupid quotes by sir Turrddog here. I will respond to each of them and determine why they are stupid. Enjoy.



turbodog said:


> You'll see many more 26" wheel bikes for 2016.


Well if you think of it, fat bikes are all the rage now and they are 26", but as for standard size 26" wheels, I talked to people at my LBS and they said even the cruisers they sell are going to be 27" for 2016. And more, so many companies are replacing their junk cheapo bikes with 27" alternatives as well as most DH bikes. 
So in short- for 26" in 2016 you can only buy DJ bikes, and a select few trail/All mountain, and Freeride bikes.



turbodog said:


> I don't disagree, the industry's marketing and lack of support has made huge negative impact on 26" sales.
> 
> 2015 will also be one of the worst years for sales in the modern mountain biking era. 650b will continue to fall flat on it's face as it already did this year.


If 27" was as big a fail as you put it here, then why are companies still making them. Surely they would have seen the collapse in the market and stopped making them by now. It's called logic and it is something you lack.



turbodog said:


> I see about 60% 26" and 40% 29er. About 1% 650b.


You obviously suck at math. I see 101% you idiot. I shouldn't call you an idiot. You must be "special". I'll just rework you equation. 25% 26, 65% 29, 10% 27.



turbodog said:


> I mountain bike on real trails, not dirt roads. It's actually shocking that I see any 29er's at all....but when I do they are usually flailing around, like this:


Have you watched any videos of bikes such as the Niner WFO9 or Specialized Enduro 29 or Intense Carbine 29? Well you apparently live too much in the past to notice. I wonder why you even argue about 29ers being sh!t to ride when you don't even know or watch how they ride...



turbodog said:


> Do you own a bunch of Apple products...? How about Bose? Do you drive an Audi?


Again, you are very off topic. That's your first strike. Apple products and Bose have NOTHING to do with bikes. And yes I do have a bunch of Apple products. As for bose speakers, I don't think I do. Oh wait they are in my Audi. What a coincidence.



turbodog said:


> Apple sucks.


You suck. Also you are off topic. Strike 2.



turbodog said:


> I am well aware of the perception/marketing. I'm also aware that perception does not match reality.
> 
> Eventually, as early as next year, the industry will figure out they made a huge mistake, and will offer mainly 26" again.


You repetitive bastard. You are sounding more and more like a troll the more I read the crap you write.



turbodog said:


> Post reported for stalking and harrassment.


Report all you want, the mods are against you. Deal with it.



turbodog said:


> Not just hacks............._British_ hacks.


First of all, off topic, second of all racist. Strike 3, you're out.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

Hey turbo ....

... is this you looking for the convincing argument that 26" is better?


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)




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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

turbodog said:


> Niether exploded in popularity because of the grassroots aspect of their development.
> 
> Please stop all this 29r marketing tosh!!! You don't fool me!!! « Singletrack Forum


Honest question. Where were you since august? Did you get banned from mtbr?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Question...

Most big reviewers (bible of bike test, pinkbike, vital, singletrack, etc) all said the evil sovereign (new 26" bike) rode better than most of their other test bikes...all of which were 27.5 or 29. The sovereign being a new carbon bike I seriously doubt Dave Weagle has any plans to make new 27.5 forms any time soon. So, how does this jive with 26" wheels being all but dead? 

This is a serious question. For the record my next bike will be 27.5 because they simply roll better. If I lived somewhere flat it would be a 29er.


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## FujNoob (Dec 20, 2009)

I went out and actually rode my bike today. Going to do it again tomorrow.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I rode my bike today too. It has round wheels.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

I rode my bike too, oddly enough...also with round wheels. Why are we only promoting round wheels? MTBR should have a non-round wheel section!!!

Geez, if I'd know this B.S. was still going on, I would've left you guys a pot of coffee or something.


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## FujNoob (Dec 20, 2009)

Rode with a buddy of mine last Friday. His wheels are a different size than mine. For the 3 hours we rode not once did it cross my mind to tell him he was an idiot for not having the same size wheel as me. He likes his bike. I like mine. Thats all that matters. We were having too much fun. We were riding.


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## Procter (Feb 3, 2012)

MMS said:


> I rode my bike too, oddly enough...also with round wheels. Why are we only promoting round wheels? MTBR should have a non-round wheel section!!!
> 
> Geez, if I'd know this B.S. was still going on, I would've left you guys a pot of coffee or something.


YES! I'm going triangular. I can track-stand FOREVER. Great for trials.


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## MMS (Apr 11, 2011)

Triangular?!?!? You're a kook! Buying into the over-hyped Triangle fad. I've never seen a triangle bike on any of my local trails. Seriously? Everyone knows all the big players are going hexagonal. Triangle troll....


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## Thor29 (May 12, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Question...
> 
> Most big reviewers (bible of bike test, pinkbike, vital, singletrack, etc) all said the evil sovereign (new 26" bike) rode better than most of their other test bikes...all of which were 27.5 or 29. The sovereign being a new carbon bike I seriously doubt Dave Weagle has any plans to make new 27.5 forms any time soon. So, how does this jive with 26" wheels being all but dead?
> 
> This is a serious question. For the record my next bike will be 27.5 because they simply roll better. If I lived somewhere flat it would be a 29er.


Just because a lot of reviewers liked one particular bike that happened to have 26 inch wheels, that does not mean that 26 inch wheels are the best possible answer to everything. Wheel size is only one variable. There are rave reviews about 29ers and 27.5 too.

Also, you might try a 29er before you say such ignorant things as "if I lived somewhere flat it would be a 29er". Seriously, rent one or something. Go to Moab and try one on the Porcupine Rim trail. You will eat your words.

In fact, I say the opposite is true. I prefer 26 inch wheels for pavement riding and 29er when the trail gets rough. Why? Because the big wheels roll over small roots and rocks better. But on the pavement you don't need that and if you have to stop a lot at intersections, the little wheels accelerate faster.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I'm buying my first long travel 29" because of the rocks, roots and hills in the northeast. If I lived somewhere flat, I'd buy a single speed with round wheels.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Thor29 said:


> Just because a lot of reviewers liked one particular bike that happened to have 26 inch wheels, that does not mean that 26 inch wheels are the best possible answer to everything. Wheel size is only one variable. There are rave reviews about 29ers and 27.5 too.
> 
> Also, you might try a 29er before you say such ignorant things as "if I lived somewhere flat it would be a 29er". Seriously, rent one or something. Go to Moab and try one on the Porcupine Rim trail. You will eat your words.
> 
> In fact, I say the opposite is true. I prefer 26 inch wheels for pavement riding and 29er when the trail gets rough. Why? Because the big wheels roll over small roots and rocks better. But on the pavement you don't need that and if you have to stop a lot at intersections, the little wheels accelerate faster.


Ignorant? I've ridden MANY a 29er. My weekday after work rides are at the Sandy Ridge trail system on the south side of Mt Hood Oregon. Literally every bike company that sells anything in the USA comes through there for demo days, some company's twice. Demo'd many many sweet bikes the past 2 summers & there were several 29er's I loved.

Given my riding style & where I ride my above post had zero prejudice against a wheel size. Also I used to live In Telluride & spent many months riding the four corners area & prolly wouldn't ride a 29er if I lived there either.

I think my post was relevant to the many posts preceding it and the only ignorance here was the nonsense you extrapolated from my post.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> I think my post was relevant to the many posts preceding it and the only ignorance here was the nonsense you extrapolated from my post.


I've also found this weird and arrogant tendency a lot of people have regarding their equipment choices where if you don't come to the exact same conclusions they did, it's gotta be because you're obviously not as good a rider as they are, or you just have no clue what you're talking about. I remember a lot of 'experts' with cut-down handlebars, 1.9" tires and drilled out cranksets giving me the same 'tude back in the early 90s.

29" wheels in general feel goofy to me on the trails that are most important to me to be able to ride well (or at least, as well as I can), just like I'm sure 26" wheels feel goofy to other people. Sure as hell doesn't mean either of us knows more about what works best for the other. And 'the industry' doesn't know **** either; I've seen many many shitty trends come and go, so just cuz it's selling, doesn't mean it's right for everyone. Might just mean it's selling cuz it's the only choice available to a lot of people.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Wait, they still make them tiny clown wheels? Ride what you brung, I say. At 6'4" tall, the 29er's fit me better. Less endos as well.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

leeboh said:


> Wait, they still make them tiny clown wheels? Ride what you brung, I say. At 6'4" tall, the 29er's fit me better. Less endos as well.


Luckily, I've got a lifetime supply of 'em in my shed.
I'll bet ya you'll be trading me something tasty for a set sometime in the future. Mark my words!


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> (18 year old 29er fanboy blathering)


Too long, didn't read.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

turbodog said:


> Too long, didn't read.


Well I guess you don't care about other people's opinions.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Well I guess you don't care about other people's opinions.


Just yours. Sorry.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

turbodog said:


> Just yours. Sorry.


Well at least I don't come in and start ranting about some stupid topic, then have people not agree with me, and hide in a hole.

If that is how you deal with all your problems, you have my pity.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> Luckily, I've got a lifetime supply of 'em in my shed.
> I'll bet ya you'll be trading me something tasty for a set sometime in the future. Mark my words!


Still running those 3" Gazzalodis on my 1x1, with 35 mm rims. They fit in the front with the rigid fork and in the back with the wheel slid back 1/2 out of the drops. But those tires and rims combine to make them 27.88 " wheel sized. Yea, that's my new wheel size. Everyone will follow.


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## IFallDown (Mar 2, 2014)

Since all the controversy about wheel size, I decided to take the wheels off my bike. I am just going to ride my bike like the old broom handle horse.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

leeboh said:


> Still running those 3" Gazzalodis on my 1x1, with 35 mm rims. They fit in the front with the rigid fork and in the back with the wheel slid back 1/2 out of the drops. But those tires and rims combine to make them 27.88 " wheel sized. Yea, that's my new wheel size. Everyone will follow.


Nice. "1x1"...heheh...I think I spotted a couple 2.7" one a while back in the parts pile too, if you ever feel the need to 'lighten up' a little.

See, having run those Gazzis on Sun 2blewides circa '99-01 not only makes me one of the godfathers of the whole fatbike sideshow, but also of the 6fiddyB movement. Just goes to show once again, there's a fine line between stupid and..uh...clever.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

I just happened to look for some light 26x2.8" a little while back to go on a second set of wheels, really didn't have much luck.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Light and 2.8's ? Good luck with that. Big earls? Or arrow?


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## Flamingtaco (Mar 12, 2012)

WHALENARD said:


> Haha & Holy smokes...why do some of you guys become so emotionally invested in a virtual argument? And to the guy claiming 26" sales are still strong...on what planet? Anybody that's shopped for a bike online or in stores CLEARLY knows 26" is all but gone. What more "research" need one do to become well acquainted with that fact?
> 
> On another note a 26" forum makes sense to me. It's clearly a niche market for trail bikes. If nothing else it would give people a resource to research what's left of the 26" market. Where they can find their gear (wheels, forks, etc.) and what frames are still available to them. Would even give a dedicated spot for 26" manufacturers to communicate directly to their market like they do on every other forum. Makes sense to me or am I missing something?


26 isn't a niche anything. 26ers make up, far and away, the vast majority of bikes hitting the trails. DH bikes may be niche, by 26 in general is not.

Wow. Just, wow. This thread got all blowed up.

Haven't read past the second page, but I stick to my original post. While it will take some time for options to become extremely limited, it would still be good to be able to pool resources like the other two sizes get to do.

A 24 forum? Yeah, I'm good with that. Better yet, a kid's bike forum for all sizes 24 and below makes sense.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

First let me say that I didn't read anything except the title. Second I ride a 26" wheeled Turner 5 Spot. Third 26 is dying fast, except for fatbikes. Gotta also say 2 years ago I didn't see this coming.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

This is why I got my 6" travel 29er and why I DH race on it.

To piss people off.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Geermi said:


> One could get themselves seriously injured going the wrong way on a DH course. You're gonna poke your eye out, kidd!


That's a pretty smooth trail....is that a hybrid bike?


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

turbodog said:


> That's a pretty smooth trail....is that a hybrid bike?


Unless hybrids come with wide nobby tires and a lot of suspension travel, it isn't a hybrid.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Geermi said:


> The trail from the tower looks a lot more DH worthy, but Jayem may have missed a turn since he was going so fast.


I see. Still looks really smooth.

Hmmm.....maybe it's the effect that all 29ers have of "smoothing out the trail"...? Everything that you ride on them feels really smooth and also *looks* really smooth too. When 29er riders do trail work, you end up with a really smooth trail..? Things are starting to make sense.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

leeboh said:


> Wait, they still make them tiny clown wheels? Ride what you brung, I say. At 6'4" tall, the 29er's fit me better. Less endos as well.


At 5'6" with a 28.5" inseam, 29ers and 650Bs don't fit me at all.
It took months to find a bike that fit me, and that bike is a 2013 26er.
I'll ride it as long as I can. Dunno what I'll do after that.

It's a great time to be a Clydesdale, and an awful time to be a hobbit.
(Note also that Clydesdales have their own forum, plus not one but TWO 29er fora).


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## Gibbsinator (Jul 24, 2013)

Industry is trying to kill 26", but it ain't dead. Look at how many people still ride them. The market is definitely 29er and 27.5 at the moment, but 26" will come back, just will take awhile for people to get tired of 29er and want something new. Then *New a Improved, faster accelerating, faster turning, shorter chainstays, better climbing 26 INCH TIRES!* Think the industry won't try touting those words in a few years?


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Yes, clear lenses deserve their own forum. Oh wait, wrong thread...


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Gibbsinator said:


> Industry is trying to kill 26", but it ain't dead. Look at how many people still ride them. The market is definitely 29er and 27.5 at the moment, but 26" will come back, just will take awhile for people to get tired of 29er and want something new. Then *New a Improved, faster accelerating, faster turning, shorter chainstays, better climbing 26 INCH TIRES!* Think the industry won't try touting those words in a few years?


When mountain bike sales are down 20% for 2015, 26" will be back in a hurry, and 650b will be back in it's niche of under 5% of the market.

Pricepoint is having a 26" clearance....except virtually nothing is clearance priced.

26 Hour 26 Inch Clearance Sale | Discounted Mountain Bikes, Road Bikes and Cycling Gear at PricePoint.com


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## JookupVandetti (May 3, 2011)

I know why MTBR doesn't have a 26er forum, cause 26" wheels suck.


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## carbuncle (Dec 9, 2005)

****


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

JookupVandetti said:


> I know why MTBR doesn't have a 26er forum, cause 26" wheels suck.


Don't be so harsh.
There already is a 26" forum. It's under the vintage section.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

JookupVandetti said:


> I know why MTBR doesn't have a 26er forum, cause 26" wheels suck.


I wonder why I haven't seen many hybrids and road bikes with 559mm ERD (26") wheels? Oh, it's because they use the same 700c wheel as 29er's.


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

turbodog said:


> I wonder why I haven't seen many hybrids and road bikes with 559mm ERD (26") wheels? Oh, it's because they use the same 700c wheel as 29er's.


Road bikes use 700c wheels, while 29er wheels are more like 700b. They are slightly larger. Just like 650b is slightly larger than 27" (which would be 650c). So 700c is more like 28.5" than 29".


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

^ No.
ERD confirms this.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Road bikes use 700c wheels, while 29er wheels are more like 700b. They are slightly larger. Just like 650b is slightly larger than 27" (which would be 650c). So 700c is more like 28.5" than 29".


Quoted for the pure, epic, fail.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Road bikes use 700c wheels, while 29er wheels are more like 700b. They are slightly larger. Just like 650b is slightly larger than 27" (which would be 650c). So 700c is more like 28.5" than 29".


 Dude, what glue have you been sniffing? 700c and 29er, exactly the same erd. 29ers usually having a wider rim. Dude. Check your facts.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

leeboh said:


> Dude, what glue have you been sniffing? 700c and 29er, exactly the same erd. 29ers usually having a wider rim. Dude. Check your facts.


Not suprisingly, the bike industry thought that 29er's would sell better if the general public didn't understand that they use the same size wheels as road bikes, and that "27 point FIVEEE" would sell better if people didn't understand that it was the same wheel as old touring bikes and wheelchairs.


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## Chad_M (Jul 11, 2013)

turbodog said:


> Not suprisingly, the bike industry thought that 29er's would sell better if the general public didn't understand that they use the same size wheels as road bikes, and that "27 point FIVEEE" would sell better if people didn't understand that it whas the same wheel as old touring bikes and wheelchairs.


Wheel chairs


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Flyin_W said:


> ^ No.
> ERD confirms this.


No, BSD confirms it.


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## C.P. (Sep 17, 2005)

'haven't quoted Sheldon Brown in a while...

Tire Sizing Systems


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## jazzanova (Jun 1, 2008)

turbodog said:


> Not suprisingly, the bike industry thought that 29er's would sell better if the general public didn't understand that they use the same size wheels as road bikes, and that "27 point FIVEEE" would sell better if people didn't understand that it was the same wheel as old touring bikes and wheelchairs.


Just like the bike industry knew in the past the 26" would sell better if general public didn't understand they used the same size wheels as most circus clowns. 
Now, the 26" is doomed forever, since the general public knows who the biggest clown in the town is and which wheels he uses for his performances.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

shiggy said:


> No, BSD confirms it.


Yes, my fail. 
(ERD is used to calculate spoke lengths, while BSD sets tire size.) 
Sorry for the confusion.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Road bikes use 700c wheels, while 29er wheels are more like 700b. They are slightly larger. Just like 650b is slightly larger than 27" (which would be 650c). So 700c is more like 28.5" than 29".


Get your facts straight, Bunky.
http://sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html
Rim (wheel) bead seat diameters:
700C/29": 622mm
700B: 635mm
27": 630mm
650C: 571mm
650B: 584mm
26": 559mm


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

shiggy said:


> Get your facts straight, Bunky.
> Tire Sizing Systems
> Rim (wheel) bead seat diameters:
> 700C/29": 622mm
> ...


So, are you telling me that 27" is a larger wheel than 650b/27.5".............mind, blown.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

CannondaleF9 said:


> Road bikes use 700c wheels, while 29er wheels are more like 700b. They are slightly larger. Just like 650b is slightly larger than 27" (which would be 650c). So 700c is more like 28.5" than 29".


What the [email protected]"; are you talking about?

No, no, no. A thousand times, no.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## CannondaleF9 (Nov 17, 2012)

leeboh said:


> Dude, what glue have you been sniffing? 700c and 29er, exactly the same erd. 29ers usually having a wider rim. Dude. Check your facts.


I was trying to prove the troll wrong. Which side are you on?
Of course I know the external rim diameter on both 700c and 29" are the same, just the 29" is wider, it is 700b (this much is true). And road bikes are more like 28.5" because their tires have shorter sidewalls than 29ers (700c is 28"). I know that because I measured my wheel with the tire on and it was 29.5", while the sidewall was more than half an inch.


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

I relate wheel sizes to Guitar players. There are always these guys that argue that this guitar or amp or pedal has the best tone. They are searching for the holy grail of tone. Well, tone is just a matter of preference. It's not necessarily better, just different. Wheels and bikes are the same. Different, not one being necessarily better. It's just about what you like. Usually the tone freaks are not such good players, because they're so obsessed with tone rather than playing.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I was trying to prove the troll wrong. Which side are you on?
> Of course I know the external rim diameter on both 700c and 29" are the same, just the 29" is wider, it is 700b (this much is true). And road bikes are more like 28.5" because their tires have shorter sidewalls than 29ers (700c is 28"). I know that because I measured my wheel with the tire on and it was 29.5", while the sidewall was more than half an inch.


I might have to take you off ignore. This is GOLD...


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I rode my bike again today. The wheels were still round. 
Apparently I was on my bike while people were trying to determine how round.


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## meltingfeather (May 3, 2007)

turbodog said:


> So, are you telling me that 27" is a larger wheel than 650b/27.5".............mind, blown.


That's because you don't understand bike wheel sizing.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

CannondaleF9 said:


> I was trying to prove the troll wrong. Which side are you on?
> Of course I know the external rim diameter on both 700c and 29" are the same, just the 29" is wider, it is 700b (this much is true). And road bikes are more like 28.5" because their tires have shorter sidewalls than 29ers (700c is 28"). I know that because I measured my wheel with the tire on and it was 29.5", while the sidewall was more than half an inch.


Your "facts" are still wrong.

The overall diameter of the _TIRE_ does not change the diameter of the _WHEEL (rim)_ it fits on.
It is the rim diameter that determines wheel size.

Changing the width of a 622 tire (700C/29) does NOT make it a 700B.
By definition a 700B has a 635BSD. Period.
When this size designation was created the number referred to the diameter of the tire and the A, B, C to the width, with A being the narrowest and C the widest.

Plus you made other flat-out wrong statements, even when considering the tire diameter.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

turbodog said:


> So, are you telling me that 27" is a larger wheel than 650b/27.5".............mind, blown.





meltingfeather said:


> That's because you don't understand bike wheel sizing.


I was selling oddball obsolete bike tire sizes to people with crappy 10-speeds as far back as 1995. Pretty sure I've got a good handle on tire sizing at this point.

Good to see you're still reading, writing and behaving at a 5th grade level, welcome back. Lets continue your education....

Sarcasm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



> Understanding the subtlety of this usage requires second-order interpretation of the speaker's or writer's intentions; different parts of the brain must work together to understand sarcasm. This sophisticated understanding can be lacking in some people with certain forms of brain damage, dementia and autism (although not always),[11] and this perception has been located by MRI in the right parahippocampal gyrus.[12][13] Research has shown that people with damage in the prefrontal cortex have difficulty understanding non-verbal aspects of language like tone, Richard Delmonico, a neuropsychologist at the University of California, Davis, told an interviewer.[14] Such research could help doctors distinguish between different types of neurodegenerative diseases, such as frontotemporal dementia and Alzheimer's disease, according to David Salmon, a neuroscientist at the University of California, San Diego.[14]


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

turbodog said:


> Pretty sure I've got a good handle on tire sizing at this point.


No you are absolutely clueless when it comes to sizing wheels and tires. Everybody knows that but you.

I did get a good laugh out of it though.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Why is there no 26" forum?

#this entire thread.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

If anyone is looking to understand more about wheel and tire sizing, I recommend starting here:

Tire Sizing Systems



> Bicycle tires come in a bewildering variety of sizes. To make matters worse, in the early days of cycling, every country that manufactured bicycles developed its own system of marking the sizes. These different national sizing schemes created a situation in which the same size tire would be known by different numbers in different countries. Even worse, different-sized tires that were not interchangeable with one another were often marked with the same numbers!


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## Gibbsinator (Jul 24, 2013)

ShinDiggity said:


> No you are absolutely clueless when it comes to sizing wheels and tires. Everybody knows that but you.
> 
> I did get a good laugh out of it though.


What you are clueless about is that his statement was a joke. Further evidenced by his post about sarcasm.


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## ShinDiggity (Mar 29, 2010)

Gibbsinator said:


> What you are clueless about is that his statement was a joke. Further evidenced by his post about sarcasm.


El turbo never jokes around. If you're going to be in his sock posse you should know that.


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