# Alligator Serrated Brake Rotor review



## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

The techno babble is "Alligator Serration Disc Brake Rotor are High Grade Stainless Steel Disc brake rotors. Precision engineered to achieve high strength, and superior heat dispersion." Yada yada.

The 160 weighs 92 grams and the 180 weighs 113 grams. I ordered a pair of the 160mm's for my Ibis Mojo and have been testing for about 2+ weeks. They actually weighed 91.8 on my triple beam scale. I was amazed how much power the rotors gave me. And they seemed quieter then my XT rotors. They did make a ever so slight chatter noise sometimes but it was very subtle. I think that has more to do with the shape of the rotor then anything. When they got wet they did squeal like most rotors but they dried out extremely quickly. They dissipated heat and modulated extremely well and have incredible stopping power. They don't seem to lock up as easily and can be feathered for use in technical sections. That was where I really liked them, I could feather the brake ever so slightly when in tough rock gardens and the shock wouldn't dive on me. I saved 34 grams per rotor over my XT rotors, not to shabby!

Conclusions: Great place to save weight, modulate well, great stopping power, great heat dissipation and the best part you can feather the brakes. Highly recommended. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 

A bit more verbage for this review is on my blog. Enjoy!


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Your forgot to mention Butt Ugly! 

But, weights are nice, and thanks for the review!

My stock 160 Oro rotors weigh 108 and 117. I could use a butt ugly 180 upfront with no weight weenie penalty.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Your forgot to mention Butt Ugly!
> 
> But, weights are nice, and thanks for the review!
> 
> My stock 160 Oro rotors weigh 108 and 117. I could use a butt ugly 180 upfront with no weight weenie penalty.


well - comments for these discs are always very positive! when you see them for real these are real sexy.

by the way - the 203mm version weighs juat 155g and get sused with great success on DH bikes over here!! they seem to deliver more power than the regular discs.

best of all - these actually save weight on discbrakes without ANY downside! no loss of power, no special pads needed.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

kinda random question.. but this is all I was thinking when looking at those: What happens if you go backwards? They don't catch the pads?


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ... looks like saw blade. they're growing on me though. I used to swear only by V-brakes, so there's hope for these ugly rotors.


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

I think the rotors are sweet looking! Where can they be purchased?


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Check my blog http://www.gramslightbikes.com/ for info on getting them. :thumbsup: 

No they do not give you any issues when going backwards. Not that I do it much but yes I have been backwards on a steep hill.:nono:


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Same thermal capacity?*

it seems to me that with less mass under the brake pads, they wouldn't be able to get rid of as much heat... less material for the pad to rub against, like.

I'd love to check those out if they really work well, tho.


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## miles (Jan 6, 2004)

Yeah, but with as much air flow around the material that the open design allows for there may well be an offset benefit.

It'd make a cooler looking calf-brand if you lean up against it, too.



miles


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

I have bought a couple of "sunflower" rotors for a good price (http://www.alligatorcables.com/Disc/rotors.htm) but my digital scale read a disappointing 111g for the 160mm. 
I thought the scale was fairly accurate, and the design of the sunflower "wave" should have a similar weight of the serrations, if not lower. Infact the wave design is the only difference between the two models

Did anyone weight the sunflower just to verify my readings?
Anyway I am starting some creative grinding...

fab


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## Some Guy (Mar 27, 2005)

Ausable said:


> I thought the scale was fairly accurate, and the design of the sunflower "wave" should have a similar weight of the serrations, if not lower.


Yeah that's really weird. Maybe the serrated model is thinner?


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## wiiija (Jun 23, 2005)

I've just ordered a couple, I think they look great personally.

Nino, are you using a different mount for your ultimates than the one supplied by avid? is it lighter?

Sean


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Avid...*



wiiija said:


> I've just ordered a couple, I think they look great personally.
> 
> Nino, are you using a different mount for your ultimates than the one supplied by avid? is it lighter?
> 
> Sean


correct, since i use the 180mm up front i have to use a different adapter. Avid uses 185mm...so i use a shimano 180 adapter. same weight if not lighter by 1g or so. no problems otherwise.


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

sonyisdope said:


> I think the rotors are sweet looking! Where can they be purchased?


I have a 160 and 180 sitting here that I need to install yet. I purchased them from Tom at Toronto Cycles. His are slightly different in that they are labelled/packaged under the actual manufacturers name - Ashima (Ashima Ltd).

Anyways, i'm going to test the 160 rotor up front first, as to make a better comparison against the stock 160 Formula rotor i'm using now. I'll post here when I have something (won't be for a bit though as trails are still drying out/unthawing up here).

I'm surprised that Nino didn't mention these are the same ones he has/sells. Nino, you slippin'?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

AndrewTO said:


> I have a 160 and 180 sitting here that I need to install yet. I purchased them from Tom at Toronto Cycles. His are slightly different in that they are labelled/packaged under the actual manufacturers name - Ashima (Ashima Ltd).
> 
> Anyways, i'm going to test the 160 rotor up front first, as to make a better comparison against the stock 160 Formula rotor i'm using now. I'll post here when I have something (won't be for a bit though as trails are still drying out/unthawing up here).
> 
> I'm surprised that Nino didn't mention these are the same ones he has/sells. Nino, you slippin'?


not sleeping - but Ashima quoted slightly higher prices...you never know who the actual manufacturer is when dealing with those asian companies. they have sub-manufacturers and are re-labeling almost everything they can. when i asked about a 140 size of that rotor they would say it can't be done so this makes me doubt they are actually doing them...but you never know.


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

nino said:


> not sleeping - but Ashima quoted slightly higher prices...you never know who the actual manufacturer is when dealing with those asian companies. they have sub-manufacturers and are re-labeling almost everything they can. when i asked about a 140 size of that rotor they would say it can't be done so this makes me doubt they are actually doing them...but you never know.


That's true, Ashima may very well have had them made by someone else. It's hard to keep track of this stuff nowadays - there is SO much of it going on. :bluefrown:


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

My 160mm which is different in appearance somewhat is stamped A2Z and Teppen Yaki, and is 93 grams on my scale. According to the A2Z components site, the model I have is the SPIII and the claimed weights are 160mm - 96g, 180mm - 125g, 203mm - 179g.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

As I stated in my blog post "So I decided to test out a steel version. I poked around and found a version distributed by Alligator Cables from Taiwan. I am not sure if its actually made by Alligator or A2Z or someone else, it tends to get a bit blurry who makes what." :thumbsup:


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## SmilMick (Apr 9, 2006)

What about uneven pad wear? By the naked eye, it looks like the inside would wear faster than the outside.

Who the heck thinks those rotors are ugly? I could understand if the older crowd didnt like them. Too radical for ya'? hahahha!!! Im only joking!!! 






(sort of)


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Urgh! Another one of those gram-goon yummy items! Stop posting 'em! You're killing me! LoL! :cornut:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*the yare great...*



SmilMick said:


> What about uneven pad wear? By the naked eye, it looks like the inside would wear faster than the outside.
> 
> Who the heck thinks those rotors are ugly? I could understand if the older crowd didnt like them. Too radical for ya'? hahahha!!! Im only joking!!!
> 
> (sort of)


no uneven pad wear at all. they offer great stopping power and i have a DH-team over here that swears for the 203mm size. better power and modulation than the standard 203 discs they had before wile saving almost 70g per wheel !

here's some weights...........160mm / 180mm / 203mm

Alligator.....................................92 / 115 / 155g

AVID Ultimate 2007..................106 / 146
AVID Polygon..........................115 / 164 / 223g
AVID Mechanical.....................117
AVID Clean Sweep..................118 / 166
FORMULA Oro........................110 / 135
FORMULA B4.........................110 / 148
HOPE Floating:.........................92 / 146 / 168g
HOPE Mini 2007(shark-design).122
HOPE Mini..............................108 / 125
HOPE.....................................137 / 155
HAYES...................................110
MAGURA Marta SL (Wave).......107 / 128
MAGURA Louise (Wave)..........134 / 156 / 234g (203mm Ventidisc)
MAGURA Julie........................153 / 189
SHIMANO XTR 07...................135 / 162
SHIMANO XTR (alt).................118 / 139
SHIMANO XT..........................126 / 150 / 198g


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## Boozzz (Aug 20, 2005)

Any ideas where I can get these in Europe? I did some searching, but the only place I found them was on a Czech site, and I didn't understand a word written on there (yep, my Czech is a little rusty  )


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Maybe...*



miles said:


> Yeah, but with as much air flow around the material that the open design allows for there may well be an offset benefit.
> 
> It'd make a cooler looking calf-brand if you lean up against it, too.
> 
> miles


but take that all the way. If you take out too much mass in the friction area, you generate less friction, and the material that is there gets hotter since all the energy is concentrated in less mass.

I guess it's really only a tiny bit lighter than say a Hope Mini rotor.

That said, I am intersted in trying a set out.


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## Some Guy (Mar 27, 2005)

pimpbot said:


> I guess it's really only a tiny bit lighter than say a Hope Mini rotor.


The older Hope floating rotors were the same weight (89gr). They have a new thinner floating rotor too which should be lighter, although I'm not sure you can buy it seperately.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*help...*



Boozzz said:


> Any ideas where I can get these in Europe? I did some searching, but the only place I found them was on a Czech site, and I didn't understand a word written on there (yep, my Czech is a little rusty  )


guess where?
I
I
I
I
I
I
I
V


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

Boozz, if your french is better than the czech you can also try www.fizzbikes.com

PS - I have not tried my sunflower rotor yet, but I think that: 
-less weight = less friction area
less friction area=less braking power
less braking power=you should use 180mm instead of 160mm rotors
bigger rotor=more weight
that's why I plan to use serrated rotors on the rear wheel only!


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I got mine through a little "shop" in Switzerland 

180mm:










203mm:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I saw them on the ebay stores. Toronto Cycles for 16 USD


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Check my blog http://www.gramslightbikes.com/ for info on getting them. :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*wrong...*



Ausable said:


> Boozz, if your french is better than the czech you can also try www.fizzbikes.com
> 
> PS - I have not tried my sunflower rotor yet, but I think that:
> -less weight = less friction area
> ...


sorry - seems logical but in this case is wrong. these rotors perorm as good if not better than regular rotors. as mentioned already, i have a DH team over here which swears by these rotors as they don't overheat and don't fade at all and deliver even better power.


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

nino said:


> sorry - seems logical but in this case is wrong. these rotors perorm as good if not better than regular rotors.


I have finally mounted the new rotor (it's not the serrated model, but the Sunflower that I tuned a little bit to reduce the weight from 110 to 98g, on my kitchen digital scale) and have to agree. After a short break-in period it delivers almost the same stopping power of the original Avid rotor. It is also smoother and more silent than the original!!!


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## bigDspud (Mar 14, 2007)

You can get them at pricepoint.com I just got a set. 160mm $45


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## bn_acyclist (Jun 6, 2006)

*Anybody know the weight of a Hope 140?*

Just wondering if anybody know's the weight of a 140mm hope floating rotor.
Thinking about putting that on the rear or a stan's 160.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

bn_acyclist said:


> Just wondering if anybody know's the weight of a 140mm hope floating rotor.
> Thinking about putting that on the rear or a stan's 160.


75g
BUT lots of problems with smaller sized floating rotors (160 + 140mm)

newer floatings have just 1,55-1,6mm thickness of the actual rotor....they overheat easily.

why people install discbrakes and downgrade them with poor performing rotors remains a mystery to me??? you guys spend tons of money in heavy brakes and downgrade them with poor performing rotors....they are still a LOT heavier than V's and also suffer in performance...i don't get it.

so far the Alligators proved to be the lightest rotors that still do a great job. no downgrade at all. full power-full performance.


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## collideous (Jul 1, 2006)

Anyone seen this yet? Titanium Nitrite coated.


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## kenz76 (Nov 7, 2005)

does perhaps the aligator come in 140mm?
I now use the 180 Magura SL on front, and Avid G2 14o on rear. the performance is great, 180 on front really gives modulation and power, and 140 on rear is more then enough.

... but the look, it sucks.
so I'd like same rotors that look same, but in 140 and 180.


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## zooford (Dec 20, 2006)

just grabbed a pair off eBay from Toronto Cycles. not much riding to be had yet up here in the great white north but they sure look sweet, and preliminary around-the-block'ings have shown prime performance!

mine are branded under Ashima


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## bn_acyclist (Jun 6, 2006)

*So what happens?*

So what happens when they overheat?

Are you talking XC or DH and what about weight limits. I weigh 145 and race XC. I figured that they are better then stan's and lighter then Oro's. I've only recently discovered Alligator's.

I have two bike's one with V's and one with Disk. You can tell the diffrence. I would much rather have disk's. Or are you comparing V's with disk's that have crapy rotors?

Thanks for the knowledge.


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## jp3d (Oct 9, 2004)

nino said:


> 75g
> BUT lots of problems with smaller sized floating rotors (160 + 140mm)
> 
> newer floatings have just 1,55-1,6mm thickness of the actual rotor....they overheat easily.
> ...


140mm rotors are fine as the rear brake hardly does any work under hard braking (I guess if you like to drag your rear brake the whole way down it might be an issue, but you would probably end up overheating your rim and blowing off your tire if you had been running V's instead)


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## chrism (Jan 27, 2004)

nino said:


> why people install discbrakes and downgrade them with poor performing rotors remains a mystery to me??? you guys spend tons of money in heavy brakes and downgrade them with poor performing rotors....they are still a LOT heavier than V's and also suffer in performance...i don't get it.


Well I have 140/160 floating rotors, and they work fine - no noticeable difference from the standard full-steel Formula rotors (I have two sets of wheels, so run them interchangeably, depending on what tyres I need). Still work a huge amount better in mud and wet than Vs, which is the reason for having discs in the first place.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

chrism said:


> Well I have 140/160 floating rotors, and they work fine - no noticeable difference from the standard full-steel Formula rotors (I have two sets of wheels, so run them interchangeably, depending on what tyres I need). Still work a huge amount better in mud and wet than Vs, which is the reason for having discs in the first place.


any steep descents going on? on flat land these sure work. however i have reports from several german guys who had major issues with the floatings....


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## UberFly (Apr 10, 2006)

Since we're on the topic of Alligator, what's the weight of their centerlock adaptor? Here's a link to it at Pricepoint so you know what i'm talking about:

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail.ht...ch&sub_id=&subName=&lprice=14.98&hprice=14.98

What is the lightest c-lock adaptor? The Alligator ones say you still need to run a lock ring whereas the Problem Solvers version has a pinch bolt and the lock ring is only used for installation and then removed.

We should make a list with pros, cons and weight of each adaptor for reference (I'll update with correct info):

Alligator - 20.4 and 20.1g - Pro - no rotor bolts needed, Con - Lock ring not included
DT Swiss - 29g - Pro - no rotor bolts needed
Problem Solvers - ?g - Pro - no lock ring needed, Con - requires rotor bolts
Formula - ?g

Shimano SM-RT97 lock ring - 8.9g


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## seven-22 (Mar 1, 2007)

Anyone know if these are available in 140mm? Pricepoint only has 180 and 203 mm in stock at the moment. If you know where I could get a 160 and 140 mm let me know. Thanks-


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

Assuming these are the same..

http://www.alligatorcables.com/Disc/rotors.htm

No 140's listed. Smallest is 160. Saw n another site.. think it was a2z?

Yup - here... http://www.a2zcomponents.com/hotstuff.htm

JmZ


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## Tag1 (Mar 17, 2006)

UberFly said:


> Alligator - ?g - Pro - no rotor bolts needed, Con - Lock ring not included


I wrote Pricepoint a couple days ago and here's what they said:

"It weighs about 35 grams."


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Tag1 said:


> I wrote Pricepoint a couple days ago and here's what they said:
> 
> "It weighs about 35 grams."


Must be made of steel, because the DT one without the lockring (10g) weighs about 19g, and I trimmed mine down to look like the Alligator one, and its now 12g.


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## Sexyblackbmw (Mar 7, 2007)

I am in Toronto. Is Tom from Torontocycles.com the best guy to get these 160mm Alligator Serration Disc Brake Rotors for me? Does he stock them?

Good place to buy from?


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I've bought many things from Tom at Toronto Cycles through his eBay store. He is great to deal with, and always comes through. I recently got a 180mm one from him, but I have not seen the 160mm rotors in his store.


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## Sexyblackbmw (Mar 7, 2007)

awesome thanks! I sent Tom an email


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

I just got a 203/160 "fizz bike" serrated rotors (same as alligators) from fizzbikes.com, I have a set of 203/180s from toronto cycles on the way (fizz bikes didn't have any 180s, and toronto had no 160s)... and they look cool and work great so far...I just got them so I just bedded them in...but the power is there!


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

A while back, just got mine from my friendly neighbor LBS: F&R160mm




























Too bad though I couldav saved ~90 grams if in the first place I'd chosen the SLRs over XTRs. Gotta save for those wheelsets... Or I could build my own Olympic Arch or 355... Hmmm... lotsa choices... only few buckaro0s to splurge! LoL!

My apologies! Only camphone resolution... Thanks, everyone! :cornut:

EDIT:Hi Civic! Yes, it's the *Alligator adapter*. Same weight as DT Swiss but _*twice*_ cheaper.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Onie said:


>


Is that the Alligator centerlock adapter? Its kinda hard to tell from the photo. If it is, its the exact same weight as the DT/Swiss, less the lockring (just like in the photo).


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## extensive (Jun 27, 2004)

ugh i just spent $40 on the G2 Avid, wish i would have known that these were good.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

mountainforce said:


> Do the alligators pulse at all? Normally wavy rotor designs pulse and make odd noises.
> 
> Anyone over 100kg using these?


I weigh 100kg and so far so good... running a 203mm in the front...


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I'll second that. I don't have too many miles on mine yet, but so far they did a good job. No strange sound, no strange feel on the brakes (which I had on the stand when I just mounted them), no loss in brake power. They haven't had any problem with overheating so far. Might be keepers! :thumbsup:


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

Too bad the 160s are rather difficult to locate.


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## collideous (Jul 1, 2006)

Kyle2834 said:


> Too bad the 160s are rather difficult to locate.


Carbon Accessory on Ebay has them for $25.58.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Hmmm... That's weird!*

I couldav sworn they did 'pulse' when I had a couple of rides. And I'm only within the range of 158-160lbs. I had used the Alligators CL Adapter. You think that could be a factor? I'm clueless here!

Then I might have a better chance using the 6-bolt pattern..? Really 'cuz have no inkling here. So for the meantime, eventually what I did is I've reverted to my XTR SM-RT97s...

And o0oh, guys... For _census_ only, I'd just like to ask: What are you using CL or 6-bolt pattern?

Thank you!


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

6-bolt here


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

6-bolt here also. I had a strange feeling on the lever when I first mounted the disc to my bike, when the pads where still fresh. I thought I could feel the big holes on the disc. But now as the pads are broken in so far, it feels just like any other disc.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*2 for 6-bolts...*

Crisillo & Radical_53,

Thanks much!



mountainforce said:


> *Do the alligators pulse at all? Normally wavy rotor designs pulse and make odd noises.*
> Anyone over 100kg using these?


Let me just ask you, are these your first-hand experience..? If yes, what do you have CL or the 6-bolt? TIA!

Well, aside from my motive of having ~90gram W.S. might really have to start saving for another wheelset (6-bolt pattern) just to get rid of that annoying pulsating feeling @ the brake levers. :madman: Oh, dear! Would that be worth every hard-earned penny? Hehehe!


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

collideous said:


> Carbon Accessory on Ebay has them for $25.58.


waaaaaaaaaaay cheaper here: 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/160mm-Stainle...hZ007QQcategoryZ22694QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

I bought some stuff from Toronto Cycles and can honestly recommend him.

You can have your 160mm rotor for $16 (saving $10) and the shipping is only $8 (another $7 saved) - in total about $17 you could spend on other shiny super light bits and parts.

upppss. Did I mention toronto cycles is shipping super fast?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

tatankainlondon said:


> waaaaaaaaaaay cheaper here:
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/160mm-Stainle...hZ007QQcategoryZ22694QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
> 
> I bought some stuff from Toronto Cycles and can honestly recommend him.
> ...


yeah Tom @ Toronto Cycles offers great service...

I bought my second set (203/180) from him, and actually he had run out of the 180mm serrated rotors at the moment, so he sent me a 180mm "sundial/Wave 2" rotor meanwhile and will ship the serrated 180 as soon as they are in stock (which seems to be now since they have appeared again in the ebay shop  ) How's that for service, huh?


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## tatankainlondon (Apr 4, 2004)

crisillo said:


> yeah Tom @ Toronto Cycles offers great service...
> 
> I bought my second set (203/180) from him, and actually he had run out of the 180mm serrated rotors at the moment, so he sent me a 180mm "sundial/Wave 2" rotor meanwhile and will ship the serrated 180 as soon as they are in stock (which seems to be now since they have appeared again in the ebay shop  ) How's that for service, huh?


I wish serrated rotors were available for rohloff speedhubs ...


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

*Updated Review - Alligator Serrated Rotor*

Alligator Serrated Rotor

Note: I also spoke with Price Point and they should have a new order of the 160mm by the next week. It is pretty cool to know that I a created a sort of run on the Alligator rotors and caused inventory issues in US!

I have 2 observations on the rotors. The first observation will be a using 2006 XTR Dual Control brake system and the second will be for Magura Marta SL brake system. Both these are 160mm brakesets. Refer to my Alligator blog entry for detailed information.

Observation 1

I think my 2006 XTR brake system provided a lot of modulation but it lacked a bit in the power department. I was ready to move up to the next rotor size due to the weakness I felt in the XTR brakes stopping power. The Alligator rotors were a great performance enhancement. They never faded and gave me more modulation and power then I ever expected a simple brake rotor change could make. I did not feel the need to change the size of the rotor as much as I did before hand. And the increase in the ability to lightly feather the brakes in the rough is another treasure of the Alligator rotors.

I can still state "Highly Recommended". :thumbsup:

Observation 2

The Magura Marta SL are a very light weight brake system and have incredible stopping power, but they don't let you feather the brakes as nicely when compared to my XTR's. They are a real on or off brake and when they are on you stop on a dime. At first the Alligator rotor seemed fine and I had no issues. Then I started to feel a chatter in the front brake. You could even notice the entire front hub vibrating and pulsing. This was very annoying. The rear end didn't display this as much but the front end probably oscillates with the front shock and acerbates the issue. I cleaned the rotors, tightened up the skewer and tried every trick I could think of but the issue still happened. I put on the Marta SL rotor and the issue did not happen. I am going to try testing with a 180mm rotor and see if that helps.

So all I can state is "Jury is out on this one".


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## jdoglike (Sep 12, 2003)

How about with avid's. Has anyone done that? Is there pulsing? What is your impression of them?


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

The Avids work just fine, Nino can chime in with more long term usage of the Alligators and the Avids. The Avids are much more like the XTR's then the Magura Marta's in my opinion except they provide much better braking performance. The Alligators have not exhibited any chattering or pulsing with either the XTR's nor Avids.


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## Baulz (Sep 16, 2005)

I just bought a pair of rotors and am very, very happy. 

So far I've only installed the rear, and have had no issues. Agree with pastajet about the modulation, power is great too (I'm using SwissStop brake pads with Hope Mini's). No long downhills around here so I can't comment about heat/fade.

Saved 29g from my cheap generic rotor which cost almost as much as the new rotor. :thumbsup:


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## tolleyman (Mar 5, 2006)

Can't find these in 160mm, anybody know a supplier to USA?


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

tolleyman said:


> Can't find these in 160mm, anybody know a supplier to USA?





pastajet said:


> Alligator Serrated Rotor
> 
> Note: I also spoke with Price Point (www.pricepoint.com) and they should have a new order of the 160mm by the next week.


I also got a set from "torontocycles" on ebay. He's out right now, but I'm sure he'll have more soon.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

BlownCivic said:


> I also got a set from "torontocycles" on ebay. He's out right now, but I'm sure he'll have more soon.


yep.. I got a set from Tom @ Toronto Cycles too. Send him an email and he will let you know when the 160s will be back in stock.... they were in about a week ago..and were gone in a couple of days...


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Some experiences I thought I'd like to share:

First, I rode the Alligator rotors with Swissstop pads. Performance was great, very agressive, excellent stopping power. But then I went for a long downhill run and the fading was more than extreme. By the end of the hill I didn't have enough stopping power anymore to stop completely, so I had to do some magic not to get into a bigger accident. When the pads cooled down, the brake worked just like before. By the time I got home, I saw that the pads had been damaged in that incident.
After that, I went to full metal pads instead of the organic Swissstop ones and chose Trickstuff RS pads.
This combination doesn't have any fading at all, stopping power is still great, only that agressive feel is gone. But well, that's a price I'm willing to pay if it allows me to stop anywhere anywhen.
I'd definitely recommend using full metal pads on these rotors.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Bummer that Toronto Cycles is out of them. I have bought a couple of things from him, Great guy and excellent prices. It can just take a long time due to customs, etc getting to the US.

As I stated before, I also spoke with Price Point and they should have a new order of the 160mm and should be in by the 15-18th this month. 

It is pretty cool to know that I a created a sort of run on the Alligator rotors and caused inventory issues in US! Glad everyone likes them!


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

pastajet said:


> Bummer that Toronto Cycles is out of them. I have bought a couple of things from him, Great guy and excellent prices. It can just take a long time due to customs, etc getting to the US.
> 
> As I stated before, I also spoke with Price Point and they should have a new order of the 160mm and should be in by the 15-18th this month.
> 
> It is pretty cool to know that I a created a sort of run on the Alligator rotors and caused inventory issues in US! Glad everyone likes them!


well one could get some from fizz bikes (where i got my OTHER set), but for you guys across the Atlantic might be expensive 

BTW, I got both my shippings from Toronto Cycles in less than 6 days to Germany


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## miketech1 (Jun 20, 2006)

pastajet said:


> Bummer that Toronto Cycles is out of them. I have bought a couple of things from him, Great guy and excellent prices. It can just take a long time due to customs, etc getting to the US.
> 
> As I stated before, I also spoke with Price Point and they should have a new order of the 160mm and should be in by the 15-18th this month.
> 
> It is pretty cool to know that I a created a sort of run on the Alligator rotors and caused inventory issues in US! Glad everyone likes them!


This is the email I received from pricepoint regarding the 160mm alligator "buzz saw" rotors.

"We are not going to restock the 160mm rotors any more.
Thanks,"

Manu R.
800 774 2376 Ext. 117
Price Point Mail Order Ltd.
E-mail: [email protected]


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

I just checked with Pricepoint, they are on order and should be in within the week, they had taken them out of the order system since they were already backordered, so just a clerical issue in their system :thumbsup:


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

*160mm back in stock!*

Pricepoint has the 160mm rotors back in stock again :thumbsup: 

Alligator 160mm Serrated rotors


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## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

*2 on the way...*

I ordered two 160 mm yesterday...should have them on my Epic on Mon...:thumbsup:


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## Oni (Jan 15, 2004)

*Ack! Stop!*



Radical_53 said:


> Some experiences I thought I'd like to share:
> 
> First, I rode the Alligator rotors with Swissstop pads. Performance was great, very agressive, excellent stopping power. But then I went for a long downhill run and the fading was more than extreme. By the end of the hill I didn't have enough stopping power anymore to stop completely, so I had to do some magic not to get into a bigger accident. When the pads cooled down, the brake worked just like before. By the time I got home, I saw that the pads had been damaged in that incident.
> After that, I went to full metal pads instead of the organic Swissstop ones and chose Trickstuff RS pads.
> ...


I'm running the 180's with Mono Minis and I have to say that I'm not real impressed with them. Have three rides, and on the first ride (with some DH sections that are steep and some that are flowy), managed to pump up the brakes so that they didn't stop. Made for some sketchy sections, esp. when riding back to the truck on a long DH road section. Bled the brakes, thinking that would take care of it and have two rides on them since, still not real impressed. Thinking I'll forgo the weight issues and toss the 180mm Hopes back on.

Oni likes to stop


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*which pads?*



Oni said:


> I'm running the 180's with Mono Minis and I have to say that I'm not real impressed with them. Have three rides, and on the first ride (with some DH sections that are steep and some that are flowy), managed to pump up the brakes so that they didn't stop. Made for some sketchy sections, esp. when riding back to the truck on a long DH road section. Bled the brakes, thinking that would take care of it and have two rides on them since, still not real impressed. Thinking I'll forgo the weight issues and toss the 180mm Hopes back on.
> 
> Oni likes to stop


did you change the pads as well? using used pads on brandnew rotors isn't going to offer perfect power right away since the pads have to wear in and take the shape of the already worn rotors. best would be to start with new pads.

anyway - i have reports of many,many guys telling me the rotors offer better power than the stock rotors (regardless of the brand: shimano,formula,Avid...). i have VERY good experience with EBC GOLD pads. very good power,no noise and superb durability as well. awesome stopping power.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

@oni: If you have to pump the brakes, you brake fluid isn't up to the task. These discs do have less surface area and the heat generated has to go somewhere. If you use bad pads, the discs overheat and won't work. If you use good pads but a bad fluid, the heat goes to the fluid but then starts boiling it. 
These discs definitely do work and they do work well, even on long, steep and fast dh runs. But you have to make the rest of your brake system fit them. I'm using metallic brake pads and racing brake fluid, no worries at all (I had the problem with bad pads before I used metallic  ).


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

@oni: If you have to pump the brakes, you brake fluid isn't up to the task. These discs do have less surface area and the heat generated has to go somewhere. If you use bad pads, the discs overheat and won't work. If you use good pads but a bad fluid, the heat goes to the fluid but then starts boiling it. 
These discs definitely do work and they do work well, even on long, steep and fast dh runs. But you have to make the rest of your brake system fit them. I'm using metallic brake pads and racing brake fluid, no worries at all (I had the problem with bad pads before I used metallic  ).


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## FooFighter (Jun 3, 2006)

*Wow*

I can feel the weight difference between this and a stock Hayes rotor with my hands - 35 grams, about the weight of a 1oz silver coin. Impressive! :thumbsup:


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

FooFighter said:


> I can feel the weight difference between this and a stock Hayes rotor with my hands - 35 grams, about the weight of a 1oz silver coin. Impressive! :thumbsup:


I swapped out my pair of Avid 185mm's for a pair of the Alligator 180mm's I bought from PricePoint.com which saved me 88 grams for the pair over the Avid rotors. Not that Avid 185 mechanical disc brakes exactly qualify as "weight weenie" brakes, but I'm riding 29"er's which pretty much require a larger rotor size for my _Wookie_ height/weight and welcome the weight savings where I can get it.

I took out one of the spacer washers on the brakes to help adjust it from 185mm setting more towards a 180mm size. And I installed new Avid pads. I just raced this past weekend on the rotors and they were great. Tons of power, absolutely no squeal or noise at all which was nice not to "announce" to riders in front of me that I was coming up behind them, and no pulsing during the race (I got a little pulsing in my drive way when trying to bed in the rotors). I think they were a nice "upgrade" on my bike and cheaper than a pair of replacement Avid rotors to boot. I started with my stock full suspension size XL weight of around 30 lbs and have made it down to 26.5 lbs (so far) as pictured here:


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

*140 mm anyone?*

Any one know where I can get a 140mm version of this rotor? Checked pricepoint and cambria and universal cycles with no luck.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*140mm*



bridgestone14 said:


> Any one know where I can get a 140mm version of this rotor? Checked pricepoint and cambria and universal cycles with no luck.


the first prototypes weighed 58g...the final production version weighs slightly over 60g.

if i help you to locate them some guys will complain.


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## ryball (May 14, 2007)

nino said:


> the first prototypes weighed 58g...the final production version weighs slightly over 60g.
> 
> if i help you to locate them some guys will complain.


:lol:


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## bridgestone14 (Mar 22, 2005)

no worries nino, PM on the way


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## crewcabrob (Nov 5, 2007)

*Pad choice for these rotors*

I ordered a set of rotors last week and hope to have them with enough time to get them broke in for the next race in two weeks. Anyone know if the regular XTR pads are a good choice or should start looking for a good aftermarket alternative?

Did I read that Koolstops are a little lighter than the semi-metalic XTR?

Thanks,

Rob


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

crewcabrob said:


> I ordered a set of rotors last week and hope to have them with enough time to get them broke in for the next race in two weeks. Anyone know if the regular XTR pads are a good choice or should start looking for a good aftermarket alternative?
> 
> Did I read that Koolstops are a little lighter than the semi-metalic XTR?
> 
> ...


Yes, the Koolstops with the Aluminum backing plate for the XTR's are lighter!

http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/DiscBrakes/index.php#Anchor-Shimano-48213

Shimano XTR
(with aluminum backing plates)
9 grams per pair
KS-D630A


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*pads...*



crewcabrob said:


> I ordered a set of rotors last week and hope to have them with enough time to get them broke in for the next race in two weeks. Anyone know if the regular XTR pads are a good choice or should start looking for a good aftermarket alternative?
> 
> Did I read that Koolstops are a little lighter than the semi-metalic XTR?
> 
> ...


i think the first thing pads have to do is offer great stopping power!
i am also a weight weenie but since discs are heavier than V-Brakes regardless of what you do i at least ask for great stopping power.

i have never used the mentioned Kool-Stops so i can't tell if they are good or bad BUT i can tell you that with the serrated Alligator rotors i found EBC GOLD pads to work great with good durability as well. don't even ask about their weight...i have never weighed them but guess they are standard weight.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

nino said:


> guess where?
> I
> I
> I
> ...


....


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

I could go for a spam margarita come to think of it.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*stop it!*



chequamagon said:


> ....


would you please stop it!

there was a serious question and i gave a serious answer. when people ask about pads for the serrated rotors i can really suggest they try the EBC gold as i have found them to work great.

all i found out over the time is that 95% of all complaints with these rotors come from "wrong" pads or pads that don't go well on these rotors. so far everyone i know was very pleased with the performance of the mentioned pads.

but feel free to give the guys another tip for good working pads on these rotors-thanks.


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## vi3dr0 (Jul 14, 2007)

Oh my... what now? nino how about changing your signature to something like "I don't know anything about light parts, but you could try your luck and ask me anyway"  

Peace!
vi3dr0


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## cha_cha_ (Mar 25, 2008)

my 2c, i've had my serrated rotors on for a few weeks now and a couple of hundred kms... I'm running 7/6" f/r on deore 535 brakes with brand new alligator ceramic sintered pads.

very impressed. improvement in feel and stopping power at a reduced weight even after going up a size at the front. pow.

I have a brand new set of j7s on the gearie that will get bed in once i get over my broken foot so i reckon i can do a comparo there, but all in good time...


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## crewcabrob (Nov 5, 2007)

I got the new rotors on last night and did a few quick braking manuvers in front of the house to bed them in a bit with the XTR pads. I did get a set of Kool-stops with the alu. backing, but they haven't arrived yet, and I just had to at least get the rotors on to see what they looked like.

I did a few long minimal effort stops and let the rotors cool and then did a few hard stops with cool down time between. First impressions so far are that they need a little more break in time and I hope to get that done with the new pads in a day or two. I'll do a better report after I get some miles in after the new pads get bedded in.

Side note here: I got new rotor bolts with the rotors, but the new ones are so heavy compared to the bolts that were OEM on my Crossmax SL's. On my scale they were almost twice as heavy for the 6 bolts. Are the OEM bolts made of aluminum or is it just because they are shorter that they weigh less?

By the way, my rotors both came in at 90grams each. My XT rotors were 125 each. My year old XTR pads were about 22grams a pair


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

Cool rotors! Anyone know where to get them in Japan?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

fmf said:


> Cool rotors! Anyone know where to get them in Japan?


Does Price Point ship world wide?

I think Nino sells the rotors on eBay. Not sure of his shipping policies, but I assume he ships around the globe as well.

BB


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Pricepoint ships worldwide.... even to italy i think.


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## ultraviolet (Feb 11, 2008)

i've been using these for quite awhile now on my 'light' MTB and i think there lovely, for me they don't give as much power as my standard rota's as my old Deore's where allmost completely solid with only a few small holes in them.
i can't realy aford 'light' disk brakes so this is the only real way i can cut down weight


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

I rock these on my DH bike. They work great! Mine are the Ashima labled ones.


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

del.


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## cha_cha_ (Mar 25, 2008)

fmf said:


> Cool rotors! Anyone know where to get them in Japan?


i got mine delivered to australia from pricepoint...


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

cha_cha_ said:


> i got mine delivered to australia from pricepoint...


Wow! how much did that cost?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*



DeeEight said:


> Pricepoint ships worldwide.... even to italy i think.


the rotors themselves are a great deal there...BUT did you ever look at the international shipping rates before giving people such "advice"? if i'm not competely wrong shipping rates for rotors would be huge.


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

So pricepoint has a few models... Anyone know what the difference is between the regualar and the "titanium nitride" coated models?


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## ryball (May 14, 2007)

I think the consensus around here is to skip the coating.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

bhsavery said:


> So pricepoint has a few models... Anyone know what the difference is between the regualar and the "titanium nitride" coated models?


one is silver, one is gold


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## cha_cha_ (Mar 25, 2008)

fmf said:


> Wow! how much did that cost?


not so much... i bought like $1000 worth of stuff so the postage was not too bad and the AUD -> USD exchange rate is awesome at the moment (like 0.95us instead of 0.75).


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

ryball said:


> I think the consensus around here is to skip the coating.


is there a noise or performance drawback to the TiNi coated? Just asking because my shinny new gold rotors came in on friday, my frame is being built so I will not be using them for at least 4-5months so would it be worth it to ebay the TiNi and order the standard?


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I'll be able to report back in on the TiNi rotors after this weekend. I'll be installing them on my NRS C1 to replace the Formula rotors I have on now and will try to get out on them.


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## ryball (May 14, 2007)

scooter916 said:


> is there a noise or performance drawback to the TiNi coated? Just asking because my shinny new gold rotors came in on friday, my frame is being built so I will not be using them for at least 4-5months so would it be worth it to ebay the TiNi and order the standard?


Okay, let me preface this by saying that I have the regular ones. So I don't have any experience with the coated ones. I think the concern is that TiNi's typically used for low friction applications... I don't think you want a low friction coating on a friction surface. That being said, you already bought them, so why not just keep them? I doubt anyone can discern a huge difference between the two anyway performance wise. Worst that can happen is that the coating wears off.


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## STS01 (Dec 29, 2005)

I got mine from "Toronto Cycles"on ebay and postage to Australia was minimal, like $5-10 IIRC


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

The TiNi is not a low-friction coating.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

TiN coating is meant to increase surface hardness. The effect is it gives the part that is being treated greater surface hardness. Which is great for edge retention. Titanium Nitirdie is actually a ceramic layer, not a metal layer. It is commonly used in machine tooling such as drills, end mills, carbide inserts... 

Titanium Nitride layer deposited via Chlorine Ion Implantation method reduces the coefficient of friction. Which in our case lowers braking performance. The coefficent of friction is actually much lower and is why many tooling manufacturers choose to select TiNi for coating cutters. Forexample the lower coefficient of friction of TiNi treated carbide inserts prevents metal chips from welding to the cutting edge of the cutter at high feed rates. A titanium Nitride carbide insert will last something like 100X longer than a non coated carbide insert due to the lower coefficient of friction and better edge retention. 

Since almost all brake rotors for mountain bikes are made from stainless steel there is no point depositing a layer of Titanium Nitride other than cosmetic reasons. Some applications that were once cadmium plated have been replaced by Titanium Nitriding because of Titanium Nitriding's ability to produce the same gold effect and prevent corrosion and not have the same health issues as a heavy metal. As an aside, TiNi has better corrosion resistance than cadminum plating because the surface of TiNi is a ceramic versus cadmium which is a sacrificial layer.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Got them on and have done a few short rides to bed things in. Thus far I'm very pleased. No noise, no lack of power. And they dropped a total of 130g off my bike from the Formula Evo rotors I had on before. Bike now sits at 23.98 lbs (with the bag under seat and mini pump removed) as shown. Could easily drop more weight off but I'm happy with it as-is and am done tweaking. Time to go enjoy now that it's done.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*2008 European champion...*

Swiss rider Florian Vogel from the Swisspower Team got European champion 2008, prior to that he won the first 3 rounds of the prestigious Swisspowercup and he also has a 3rd place finish in the worldcup this year and a DNF while in the leading group at Houffalize...

anyway - he is using 160/140mm Alligator rotors and loves them. and before some guys shout that Pro's get their parts for free and run what sponsors give them....NO - i know 1000% he didn't. he bought them on his own and was unsure if he would be using them in the races because he was supposed to run standard Avid rotors on his bike...but the performance was better so he is using them all year long now.

by the way - those familiar with Scott Scale frames might notice that the Swisspower team is using a FRM 2x9 crankset and a roadie front derailleur with a braze-on adapter and a changed cablerouting...just the way i did already 3 years ago. I remember when my Swisspower-friend 3 years ago was taking pics and showing them the mechanics and it seems they finally did the modification as well

according to that article in german BIKE magazine his bike sits at 8,6 kilos / 17,6 lbs


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

Quick question... Does anyone know the braking track width on the different sizes? Thanks.


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## mojak (Sep 27, 2005)

has anyone been using the sunflower design rotors? is the performance the same as the serrated ones?


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## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

Yes I have used the Sunflower design, the performance is better (no pulsing at slow speed) but they weigh a little more (105-110g or so, I tuned them to 95g)


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## beetle21 (Feb 7, 2006)

Where can we get the 140mm version??


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*pulsing...*



Ausable said:


> Yes I have used the Sunflower design, the performance is better (no pulsing at slow speed) but they weigh a little more (105-110g or so, I tuned them to 95g)


guys-may i ask how you use your brakes???

i know what people mean with that pulsing but that's if you go very slow and just use a hair of brakes. i never ever noticed any pulsing out on the trails. when i use the brakes i take a handful and don't have the time to feel a tiny vibration

if you are disturbed with this then you definitely have a problem when some dirt stick on one end of your tires which makes for vibrating of the wheels as well....

and if you really use this little amount of braking why not just go with v-brakes? oh-i forgot - they have less power and a slightly bent rim or a slightly out of true wheel might make for vibrations:madman:


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I left the same pad on as I used with the OEM Formula Evo rotors. Didn't take long to have things bed in on the new rotors with no issues at all. I've not noticed any pulsation/noises/etc whatsoever. I got my 160/140 rotors on eBay. Took right at 10 days for them to come across the pond. They were packaged in the original alligatorcables.com packaging, along with new Torx fasteners.


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

I've had the 6" Alligator rotors on for a few months and I like them so far, no issues with braking at all. I have Juicy 7's and placed an organic pad on the front. I usually ride single track which can be technical at times. (N. Cal - Demo, Skeggs, Gap)


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

Anyone tried putting these rotor on a DH rig?


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## xy9ine (Feb 2, 2005)

Karve said:


> Anyone tried putting these rotor on a DH rig?


yep. been running them for a while now. they get the job done.


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

sweet as.. no issues with fade etc on long 20 min DH's?


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## WindWalker (Jan 5, 2006)

*Reviews*

I have been using these for about a year with about 5K miles on them. Yeah I ride too much. I run Magura Marta brakes with stock Magura pads. These have been through every condition imaginable. Sometimes you can feel the serrations at the lever, sorta like pulsating, but not always. Has never been a problem for me. They have great modulation and good stopping power. Never any fade, so heat transfer must be adaquate. But this is on a XC race bike not a DH bike. Pad wear has always been even, but rotor wear has not been. I finally wore out the rear rotor. As a side note, people always notice these rotors. Funny thing is there hardly ever even notice the I-9 wheelset they are mounted to. Go figure. Yep, for $20 each I'm in for another set. No complaints. Much better than the Stans coated rotors I had before, which I wore the coating off in less than 6 months and at $60 recoat - F that.


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## velocityrob (Nov 20, 2005)

Karve said:


> Anyone tried putting these rotor on a DH rig?


Read the thread. 
Nino said about 9 times the the 203mm works great for DH.


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## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

My experience with the Alligators has been less than perfect.

My Maggies (both Louise FR and Marta SLs) had basically never uttered a single peep no matter how wet, sloppy, slushy, cold, nasty the conditions were. Well, I put some Alligator serrated rotors on and went on a we ride and OMFG they would not shut up! Front and back- unabated howling in perfect stereo. Weird. Even the wavy Avid rotors never produced noise. Or Shimano centerlock rotors. Or round Hayes rotors. I've used a lot of different rotors with my Maguras and none really changed the harmonics of the system before the Alligators. On totally dry rides the performance was fine until...

I have ridden this particular downhill off the top of our local Haus Berg at least a couple of hundred time. On my first run down this section with Alligators, during the steepest part of the descent (yes, it's steep) I noticed my brakes were fading. Quite a bit in fact. We stopped where things leveled out a bit and I could suddenly smell something nasty and burning. I crouched down next to my front wheel and heard hissing and thought I had gotten a flat until I realized it was my BRAKE CALIPER that was making the noise! It sounded like steam escaping. The Alligator rotor's brake track was the color of a blued gun barrel. Holy crap. I must have totally boiled my brake fluid or something and cooked the rotor. The odd thing was that the lever never really went noticeably soft, and after a few minutes the brakes functioned normally. I swapped things back to "normal" (180mm Maggie wave up front) and bled the brakes (I had also done it a week ago when I put the Alligator rotors on) and sure enough, I had lost a bunch of fluid.

This is the goofy part: I was running a 203mm Alligator rotor that day. I normally run180mm Magura rotors up front on my 5-Spot, RFX, and Sultan. None of the Magura rotors has EVER done anything like this on any downhill. Not any descent in Moab (Top of the World, Moab Rim, etc) or any of my usual rides around here. These Alligators are made for DH use???? Maybe for 150 pound dudes not braking hard. I really think the lack of material (yes, they are light) in the brake track reduces their ability to absorb heat, leading to cooked brakes and fade. I weigh 185 pounds, BTW. I put the rotors on my SO's bikes (she's 130 pounds) and she is light enough not to tax them heavily.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

The pads are the problem. You need pads for these discs than can live with a lot of heat. Also, a "stable" hydraulic fluid like DOT might help too, especially the good ones can get really hot before they start to get into trouble.
It's a very light and still well performing rotor, you don't get that for nothing.


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## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

In Maguras you can only run their mineral oil, so there would be no relief there. I run the semi-metallic pads Magura sells with the brakes and they offer great performance overall, but once the rotor hits a certain temp and the pads can't dump that heat anywhere else it will be fed into the caliper. The pads themselves did fade when things got stupid hot, but at that point the brake fluid was vaporizing and coming out the piston seals. I was developing bigger problems than just a little fade.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Yes, you're right about that as it seems  So one could say the Alligator is no good "companion" for the Magura brake.
I couldn't run these rotors with any pad that came from the manufacturer of my brakes and I got just about the same problems you had with pads from Swissstop. Now with some other pads, I don't have any remaining problems. Luckily my brake runs DOT fluid so I could get something nice from the motor racing shelf.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

I started this entire thread and I have never been able to get the Alligator to work with the Marta SL brakes. They always chattered/pulsed. The Marta SL rotors do not weigh that much more so it not a huge weight drop between the two of them. I stuck with the Marta SL brakes, they modulate better, fade less, overheat less and just more synergistic with the Marta system. 

The Alligator worked fine with my old XTR brakes.

Lately I have been testing the Ashima Airotor 180/160, I will have a review shortly.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*Magura Marta...*



pastajet said:


> I started this entire thread and I have never been able to get the Alligator to work with the Marta SL brakes. They always chattered/pulsed. The Marta SL rotors do not weigh that much more so it not a huge weight drop between the two of them. I stuck with the Marta SL brakes, they modulate better, fade less, overheat less and just more synergistic with the Marta system.
> 
> The Alligator worked fine with my old XTR brakes.
> 
> Lately I have been testing the Ashima Airotor 180/160, I will have a review shortly.


as mentioned already there's not many brakes out there that have the reputation to overheat as much as the Marta!

there's lots of guys using the serrated Alligators just to get rid of that problem.

once again - it's just the pads that have to be correct for the serrated rotors!!


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## lewke (Apr 14, 2004)

Which pads would work for the Marta's then???? As I have had similiar problems as others, but would like to give the rotors another chance.


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## legsrburnin (Mar 25, 2007)

WindWalker said:


> Yep, for $20 each I'm in for another set. No complaints.


I run the updates on these (Ashima brand) and find them great. I run them with Juicy 7's. It took about 4-5 hours of riding for them to feel good, but now they're great. 
Mine weigh 85 grams each and cost me $16 each!!:thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*EBC gold*



lewke said:


> Which pads would work for the Marta's then???? As I have had similiar problems as others, but would like to give the rotors another chance.


as mentioned already i have found the EBC GOLD to work great with the serrated rotors. those need a slightly longer break-in but after that offer great power and durability.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

pastajet said:


> I started this entire thread and I have never been able to get the Alligator to work with the Marta SL brakes. They always chattered/pulsed. The Marta SL rotors do not weigh that much more so it not a huge weight drop between the two of them. I stuck with the Marta SL brakes, they modulate better, fade less, overheat less and just more synergistic with the Marta system.
> 
> The Alligator worked fine with my old XTR brakes.
> 
> Lately I have been testing the Ashima Airotor 180/160, I will have a review shortly.


Currently running these with my Magura Marta's on my 29er.
160mm rotors.
Not a peep.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

nino said:


> as mentioned already there's not many brakes out there that have the reputation to overheat as much as the Marta!
> 
> there's lots of guys using the serrated Alligators just to get rid of that problem.
> 
> once again - it's just the pads that have to be correct for the serrated rotors!!


Come on Nino. Why don't you buy an ad already? You make like these things are the cure for global warming too.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

this heat resistance test video looks cool


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*why?*



Jerk_Chicken said:


> Come on Nino. Why don't you buy an ad already? You make like these things are the cure for global warming too.


why should i? just because i was the first to run them and tell about them? you can get them on "every corner" now. i am just telling people how to solve problems whenever they have some.

this is a thread about a lightweight steel rotor. most people don't have problems with them and those who do just need a different set of pads - it's as easy as that.

in the german WW-forum there's already people complaining about the Ashima ultralight rotors as well...to me it seems some people just don't know how to set-up their brakes. it's not only with brakes but also with every other part...some people don't have a clue and just complain rather than think about a solution or what could cause a certain problem and cure that.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

And I can only comment on MY findings (so far)

1) Alligator rotors pulse/chatter no matter what brake pad I have used on Marta SL 180/160 setup on a Ibis Mojo. I have tried the Marta pads and the EBC green (if I recall? I will pull the pads tonight to verify). In addition the sawtooth fin outside point causes issues hitting the inside of the brake caliper. 

2) Ashima Airotor are powerful with little modulation on Marta SL 180/160 setup on a Ibis Mojo and a Moots Mooto-XZ 29er, they eat organic brake pads for lunch so only use sintered pads, these babies stop yah on a dime, they do sometime make a funky noise due to the cutouts. Review on these shortly.

3) I will get a pair of the EBC Gold as Nino stated and test them out.

4) In addition I will test the Alligators on my 29er with the Marta brakes, but as I recall I had issues with the fin hitting the caliper so I didn't test for that long.

5) Going to go buy a temperature thermocouple to test the temp's of rotors on a specific section of my steep local terrain

Again these are my findings, I can't comment on the general nor racing population conclusions.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

I have to agree with Nino that a little time dialing in brakes ( or any other part) will save you a lot of grief.
1 important thing about new rotors: clean them with brake cleaner before and after you install them ( before to get everything off and after to get hand oil/grease...and clean your pads,too)

I am running a 160 Alligator on the front on a Fisher Hifi29 Pro with Avid 7's with the stock pads. After cleaning and bedding the pads in , they work great.

And I'm running a 140 Ashima in the rear. I've used both stock and Ashima organic pads....and it,too, is working great.

Using the bike for Xc and racing in New England...where we don't have west coast or Alps style downhills...but have never had any fade. They do make a little whirring noise, but no squeakling. I found the stock rotors too grabby...these allow modulation. Raced in the mud and did not have excessive wear


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Sorry, but I am always cleaning my brake system. I clean the rotors, lightly sand the pads, etc and nothing helped. I clean my bike regularly, pretty anal about that. I get the pulsing riding down my steep driveway!

Also I work directly with the Ashima engineering and sales staff and in regards to the Airotor "the rotor is defiantly too aggressive for organic", that is from the horses mouth. The 140mm are pretty worthless in the steeps of Colorado, has to be a 180/160 or a 203/160 combo out here. I totally chewed through a organic pad in the front on one ride using the Ashima, the rear was fine. So no more organics for me. 

Again my issue is with Marta SL brakes only. I have never had any noise issue with the Alligators nor the Ashima (outside the occasional cutout/brake pad wisp).


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

That's weird...but not unusual.
In New England we definately don't have the downhills you have in CO...but we do have some steep stuff.
We also have a lot of mud...considering it has rained about every day for the past month...and I haven't had any problems with organic pads.I run them all the time except for real muddy events.

As far as your Maguras....I know that when I've raced motorcycles in CO, the brakes acted a little funky and overheated easier...probably due to the higher altitude. And seeing Mags run mineral fluid, that may be part of the problem.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

To funny. We rarely have any mud, it's mostly sand and gravel around my riding spots, we have had drought conditions with barely any rain at all, until last nights night long rain storm. Bone dry conditions for months.

I have some further testing to perform so updates to follow! Soon I will be testing the new Marta SL Mag, them babies are superlight!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*superlight???*



pastajet said:


> To funny. We rarely have any mud, it's mostly sand and gravel around my riding spots, we have had drought conditions with barely any rain at all, until last nights night long rain storm. Bone dry conditions for months.
> 
> I have some further testing to perform so updates to follow! Soon I will be testing the new Marta SL Mag, them babies are superlight!


if you're looking for superlight brakes you might take a closer look at FRMs new brake (160/140)...all that's missing on the below pic is the 17g rear IS-adapter!


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Alligator rotors stink.

They chatter, pulse, lack power, and chew up brake pads.

Bottomline: they suck!!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

snowdrifter said:


> Alligator rotors stink.
> 
> They chatter, pulse, lack power, and chew up brake pads.
> 
> Bottomline: they suck!!


well- there's many that get lighter weight with less fading AND more power with equal durability on pads....all you might need is a different compound pad.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

nino said:


> well- there's many that get lighter weight with less fading AND more power with equal durability on pads....all you might need is a different compound pad.


Tell your friends about it. I used both organic, and semi-metalic, no good. My stock formula rotors aren't all that heavy, and *work*.


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## TR (Jan 12, 2004)

Agree with Nino.
Pulsing, chattering etc is a set up problem.
I have had it myself on a number of different brakesets.
Generally I find it is mainly caused by the rotor not being centred in the caliper and can usually be remedied with some small spacers between either the frame and the adapter or the adapter and caliper.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Hmmmm...I can put on a set of Ashima, XT's or Magura, etc rotors and they all work just fine. Albeit each with their own personalities. Sure there is some minor adjustment when add a rotor but I have spent almost a hundred hours testing brakes so I am sure that I am doing things properly. I put on the Alligator and they pulse, end of story. This happens with a simple tap going down my freakin' driveway. Something in the interface, synchronicity or whatever between the Alligator's and my Marta causes an issue. Tried some different pads (not all pads) and still the same issue. 

I think it's time to leave this thread, it's getting tiresome.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Face it, Alligator Serator = Cheese Grater


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

NO issues with the Alligators mated to my ancient Formula Evos. Great power, modulation is fine, and no noise.  And never an issue with the Formula's either.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*



snowdrifter said:


> Face it, Alligator Serator = Cheese Grater


face it: you didn't get them to work doesn't mean they are BS. it just means you didn't manage to get your setup right.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

has anybody found the new hiperlight version in 180/203mm size? (not the serrated one)


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## cha_cha_ (Mar 25, 2008)

just swapped out my old deores for new xt (775) brakes with factory pads on my existing rotors... very nice. power is another step up on the old ones. i reckon they're on par with my j7s on my gearie


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## OutThere (Dec 25, 2007)

*Time will tell...*

I just fitted them and hope they perform as good as they look, they still need some bedding in but otherwise so far so good.


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## Brian06 (Jul 12, 2006)

I can't say I would recommend these. I just had to replace my front rotor after 4 months of riding. The rotor had severely warped and was dragging like crazy. The rear seems to be holding up but overall not as much stopping power as I would have hoped for.


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Brian06 said:


> I can't say I would recommend these. I just had to replace my front rotor after 4 months of riding. The rotor had severely warped and was dragging like crazy. The rear seems to be holding up but overall not as much stopping power as I would have hoped for.


It would be much more helpful to all of us if you told us what types of brakes and pads you were using. Obviously, these rotors work for some people and not others. It would be better if the info gets shared instead of everyone arguing that they do or don't work, eh?

Same with the Ashima rotors. I'll report back on how they're doing with my '09 BB7s as soon as they get some good riding time on them.


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## Brian06 (Jul 12, 2006)

sorry about that,

I am using Shimano XT calipers with Kool Stop pads (I think they are organic or something)


----------



## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Brian06 said:


> sorry about that,
> 
> I am using Shimano XT calipers with Kool Stop pads (I think they are organic or something)


Cool. What model or year of XT?


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## Brian06 (Jul 12, 2006)

2007 M765 I believe.... they are the silver ones from last year. I am using them with Dual Control Levers.


----------



## OutThere (Dec 25, 2007)

*Original post is somewhere ......*







Here it is again, and as mentioned time will tell. Did a shortish ride with new rotors and they must still bed in some more. Braking power at this point is below par with Avid cleansweep rotors but should improve.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Brian06 said:


> sorry about that,
> 
> I am using Shimano XT calipers with Kool Stop pads (I think they are organic or something)


oganics are NO GOOD!
usually used pads on new discs are no good either.

it's all because of the pads. why can't people understand that? it is so easy.

before we had discs we had V-Brakes and the same happen on our aluminium rims as well. some rims needed different pads than others.and if you had ceramic rims it was obvious you needed different pads as well yet even with those rims people would install the regular black rubbers and complain....:madman:


----------



## daleksic (Aug 26, 2007)

I was wondering, I was reading through these threads and was very curious about the Rotors. Now that it's time to order them through PricePoint i noticed that they removed the Q&A that said that the 180mm rotors are compatible with 185mm AVID BB7 setup.

What's the deal? Did they realized it doesn't fit? Do you guys run the BB7 185mm setup with a 180mm rotors? I'm planning to the the Titanium Nitrate rotors, which pads work the best? I was thinking of running soft Ceramic pads.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*180mm on Avid*



daleksic said:


> I was wondering, I was reading through these threads and was very curious about the Rotors. Now that it's time to order them through PricePoint i noticed that they removed the Q&A that said that the 180mm rotors are compatible with 185mm AVID BB7 setup.
> 
> What's the deal? Did they realized it doesn't fit? Do you guys run the BB7 185mm setup with a 180mm rotors? I'm planning to the the Titanium Nitrate rotors, which pads work the best? I was thinking of running soft Ceramic pads.


to be able to run 180mm discs on Avids all you need is a 180mm adapter instead of the dumb 185 Avid come with.they just try to keep customers buying their own discs with their strange 185 measure.

as for pads don't experiment! just get EBC gold or Swissstop. that's pads which work great on the serrated rotors.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

Swissstop? When did that happen? I absolutely smoked two pairs of those when I went into the first "real" DH with the serrated rotors... they were nice as long as the discs were cool, but as soon as they got warmer the pads done. No braking at all, smoke and some funny smell. The only good thing was that those pads worked well enough when they cooled down afterwards to let me ride home.


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## icedmind (May 8, 2008)

i run my ti-ni ones with Unex pads(same company but different name of alligator), the pads come with a kelver and ceramic layer to prevent heat transfer to caliper
see this for the pads:https://www.unex-cables.com/htm/3hy_03thermo_02.htm

they work awesome with the ti-ni coating rotor, this combo is even better than the marta pads on hope floating rotors or other standard rotors
its way more powerful i have to say


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I guess that some have had success as I have with the Alligator titanium nitrided rotors yet others have not. But, IMO it's not correct to say they're junk. Generally when you have any kind of mechanical issue there are underlying reasons for it.


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

icedmind said:


> i run my ti-ni ones with Unex pads(same company but different name of alligator), the pads come with a kelver and ceramic layer to prevent heat transfer to caliper
> see this for the pads:https://www.unex-cables.com/htm/3hy_03thermo_02.htm
> 
> they work awesome with the ti-ni coating rotor, this combo is even better than the marta pads on hope floating rotors or other standard rotors
> its way more powerful i have to say


How is the noise in wet and dry situations with this rotor pad combo?


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

I've put 100-150 miles on these rotors with j7's/stock pads and they are equivalent to the avid rotors, if not better for initial bite.

I bent one pretty bad, but in its defense, I bent an avid racing at the same venue a week before. The rotor trued back perfect and has stayed straight since.


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## icedmind (May 8, 2008)

it was not that quiet when i first use them got kind of metal sound rubbing when brake
then i used it for a nite ride and you can see from the pics the rear one is bed in and it don have any more noice (dry)

when wet i still got that squeeze noice at the start(when i use hope floating with matra pads) but then its all good after the rotor is warm up and it don have no more sound

if you guys have any problem with the rotors then just give these pads a try
good luck


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

Hmm http://www.ebcbrakes.com/mountainbike.html

I have to say im un impressed with my Alligator titanium nitrided rotors atm only one quick ride and the front 180mm just fades...

But im using some well worn XT pads so ill report back after ive tryed the EBC Golds


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*bad choice!*



Gezzza said:


> Hmm http://www.ebcbrakes.com/mountainbike.html
> 
> I have to say im un impressed with my Alligator titanium nitrided rotors atm only one quick ride and the front 180mm just fades...
> 
> But im using some well worn XT pads so ill report back after ive tryed the EBC Golds


i really don't understand why people buy a nitrite coated rotor...ever tried to understand what the coating is for?...it definitely doesn't ad any friction at all....and you definitely need NEW pads on a new rotor. but you should know that anyway.


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

nino said:


> i really don't understand why people buy a nitrite coated rotor...ever tried to understand what the coating is for?...it definitely doesn't ad any friction at all....and you definitely need NEW pads on a new rotor. but you should know that anyway.


I only got the nitrite coated rotors as thats all i could find in stock for next day delivery,
I would have preferred the standard ones

new pads are on order now, it did cross my mind to get new pads but i like a little risk and thought whats the worst that can happen:eekster:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Gezzza said:


> whats the worst that can happen:eekster:


ok i see.

the worst is that you now have marks in the rotor of a worn pad. but since you did just 1 ride that is not so bad.otherwise you already will have "grooves" and a new pad again wouldn't align well....put some new pads, give them a couple of miles to break in and you will be happy!


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Nino.

Why do you fit new pads when fitting a new rotor?


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Same reason you don't put old pads on new brake rotors on your vehicles; pads bed in on the rotors and unless you don't mind giving the used pads time to wear in on new rotors the braking performance will suffer at least initially.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*easy to explain...*



Tiffster said:


> Nino.
> 
> Why do you fit new pads when fitting a new rotor?


a new rotor is perfectly flat, worn pads aren't and viceversa.

only by mating two properly flat items with each other you have the best performance.

worn rotors or pads have these marks.they are uneven.so using worn with new leaves marks on the new part.not the whole surface will make contact but just the highest points.thus all the heat is building up only on small areas.your pads will glaze where this excessive heat builds up and a rotor could get blueish stripes from too much heat as well.....it makes for overheating and less power.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Ok.

So i just bought some new Avid Ultimates. For 2 test rides i used them with XTR rotors - didn't do much just did a few brake tests etc - just 2 rides around the block. 

I have now fitted Hope Pro rotors - will this be ok? The pads are like 2 weeks old only done two quick 5 min test rides....


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Yes, it may just take a little longer for them to seat in and gain full braking performance.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Ok, they are performing damn well already actually really good braking power.

If only Hope Rotors ran true as both of them are warped


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## Gezzza (Jun 13, 2006)

So ive fitted my EBC Golds and done a few hours in the saddle.

at first it was the same but its slowly getting better porfamance now is 80% of my xt rotors so im happy


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## civil (Feb 13, 2008)

Quick pad question guys....

from the stores I'm buying from, I've got these choices. They are for 2x160mm alligator rotors with juicy seven calipers.

Ashima
Fibrax
Goodridge
Avid
A2z

Any preference/opinions? Also, are sintered pads a must with the alligators?
Thanks!


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Anyone know if pricepoint has the 92 gram version of these rotors? They don't have a price listed and I e-mailed them, but I thought I would ask her as well. I've been thinking about getting a set of these in the future with all of the good reviews. Thanks in advance.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Here is a url for the Alligator Serrated Rotors  from Price Point and the 160 weighs 92 grams and the 180 weighs 113 grams.


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Rod said:


> Anyone know if pricepoint has the 92 gram version of these rotors? They don't have a price listed and I e-mailed them, but I thought I would ask her as well. I've been thinking about getting a set of these in the future with all of the good reviews. Thanks in advance.


I got them from PricePoint and they were indeed 92g. Have asked if they will be carrying the 140mm version and was told "not for a couple of months" and "watch the site". Beyond that, though, their current sale on the 160, 180, and 200mm sizes is pretty good. Picked up a couple 160mms for spares.


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

So what's the consensus... does the Serrated rotor work fine with the _stock_ Juicy 7 pads?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*works but...*



Kyle2834 said:


> So what's the consensus... does the Serrated rotor work fine with the _stock_ Juicy 7 pads?


they sure work BUT EBC GOLD offer better performance.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

How come? The original avid pads are organic, yes? The ebc gold are metalic if I recall...

Nino, did you weigh the original pads and the ebc ones...?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Batas said:


> How come? The original avid pads are organic, yes? The ebc gold are metalic if I recall...
> 
> Nino, did you weigh the original pads and the ebc ones...?


i don't care which pads are what material.the EBC gold are superior.

no-i didn't weigh the pads. and i wouldn't care even if they are 5g heavier. i don't pick pads because they are light. i want the best performance. i don't see a reason to install 1 pound heavier disc-brakes only to install weaker pads because you can save maybe 2-3g??


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

I've had both Avid Organic and Avid Sintered pads.

The Organic ones with alloy backing plates are 12grams lighter per brake than Steel backed ones.

So on a bike with discs front and rear it's 24 grams lighter. As i use Organic anyway this was a nice little bonus. For extra weight saving i cut the arms of the pads that stick out - your suposed to be able to pull them out with your fingers - im damned if i could. So i cut them off as i used pliers anyway.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Yes... Although I don't choose pads for the weight but performance, the weight savings with alu back plate is not neligble...


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Maybe - depends how dedicated you are!

I've spent the last two days taking apart my old bike and weighing everything as i try and squeeze the last couple of grams out.

Im 73 grams away from having a sub 19lb full suss


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Yes... But I wouldn't trade performance for weight savings... Thats why I have the new sid @ 1480g vs old @ 1280g...


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## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

I want to be able to modulate my rear brake more easily. I currently run a 185f/185r setup with the Juicy 7, but have adapters on hand for 160/140. I only weigh 140lb, the rear wheel locks up way too easily.

That is why I'm hoping a 140mm serrated on the rear will work fine with stock Juicy 7 pads. Perhaps even letting me modulate it better...I just don't want it destroying my stock pads if that is even an issue.

The pads will of course be sanded and bedded with the new rotor.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

It's good to hear that they have the true 92 gram rotor because I got this e-mail today from pp's customer service.

"Hello,

The 6" rotor weighs 150 grams.

Thanks,"


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

I ran the Alligator Windcutter 180mm rotors front and rear on both my Dos Niner and Sugar 293 for XC racing this past season using the Avid Sintered pads. In both cases, I installed new Avid pads when I installed the rotors. I just pulled the pads out of my front caliper on my main race bike to measure the wear. The pads are still 3.5 - 3.75 (4mm at some points) mm's thick on the front after an entire season of racing. That's 15 events plus all the training and riding between events. It appears that the combination of the Avid mechanical disc brake, Avid Sintered pads and the Alligator Windcutter rotors seems to work quite well together.

I was averaging a season per set of Avid pads plus part of the next season using the Clean Sweep rotors, so it looks like it will be about the same with the Windcutters and Avid sintered pads. I wonder if the EBC Gold pads would be the same, better, worse....? Considering I can get the EBC Gold pads cheaper than the Avid sintered, I will spring for a pair to install with my next new "test" of running smaller rotors than the 180's.

But that is my setup. I know others have had pad eating issues with the Airotor and the Windcutter. Some poster even called them "cheese graters". But, I can prove based on my season of racing with them on 2 bikes that pad wear was less than the pad wear was when I was using the Clean Sweeps for a season. Gotta love that. Less expensive rotors than the clean sweeps. Less weight. And less pad wear. Score. Score.  Score. :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup: 

And better braking performance than the stock Clean Sweeps.

BB


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well..*



BruceBrown said:


> I ran the Alligator Windcutter 180mm rotors front and rear on both my Dos Niner and Sugar 293 for XC racing this past season using the Avid Sintered pads. In both cases, I installed new Avid pads when I installed the rotors. I just pulled the pads out of my front caliper on my main race bike to measure the wear. The pads are still 3.5 - 3.75 (4mm at some points) mm's thick on the front after an entire season of racing. That's 15 events plus all the training and riding between events. It appears that the combination of the Avid mechanical disc brake, Avid Sintered pads and the Alligator Windcutter rotors seems to work quite well together.
> 
> I was averaging a season per set of Avid pads plus part of the next season using the Clean Sweep rotors, so it looks like it will be about the same with the Windcutters and Avid sintered pads. I wonder if the EBC Gold pads would be the same, better, worse....? Considering I can get the EBC Gold pads cheaper than the Avid sintered, I will spring for a pair to install with my next new "test" of running smaller rotors than the 180's.
> 
> ...


don't tell that here otherwise you will be called a liar...at least that's what happend to me:skep:


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## Guest (Dec 26, 2008)

Snowshoe, The Shed, Wisp...they gets the job done. (203mm both ends, Avid Code 5 with Avid metallic pads, 125lb rider, rear-brake-happy-hamfister.)


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

nino said:


> don't tell that here otherwise you will be called a liar...


More than likely I'll get tarred and feathered about my comments because I'm not running "real" brakes. Instead, I'm running Avid mechanical brakes.:nono: Oh well.....although not weight weenie material, they are real for me and the combo of Windcutters with the Avids works. Why fix what isn't broken?



nino said:


> at least that's what happend to me:skep:


A discerning audience can easily cut through the flack that certain posters give you in terms of calling you a liar. Be it Nokon housing or Windcutters or whatever - in the end, truth prevails.:thumbsup: I enjoy the banter in many threads, but you are more man than me the way you put up with it.

BB


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

Hi all, 

Would someone tell me where I can get the 140 size and adapter for Juicy 5 rear? Been looking but havin a hard time finding... Thanks in advance.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

The 140's have been all over eBay, at least in the past.


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## icedmind (May 8, 2008)

i am not quite sure abt which adapter i used to make my commutte bike run 140mm disc @rear
im sure its a 160mm adapter but cant remember front or rear, 
install it upside down and it works as a 140 adapter @ rear

anyway, its still better to get a propper adapter unless you are really out of cash


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

They don't make a specific adapter for 140mm rear. It's just the 160mm front adapter, bolted to the rear frame mounts. I've never heard anything about bolting it on upside down though.


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## SingingSingleTracker (Sep 7, 2004)

fmf said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Would someone tell me where I can get the 140 size and adapter for Juicy 5 rear? Been looking but havin a hard time finding... Thanks in advance.


The guy in the thread above - Nino - I think has posted before that he has them.


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

Thanks for the answers everybody!

I'm confused about the 140 adapter...??? Do I just use a frnt 160 adapter? Doesn't make sense to me... Wouldnt the 160 be too big?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

fmf said:


> Thanks for the answers everybody!
> 
> I'm confused about the 140 adapter...??? Do I just use a frnt 160 adapter? Doesn't make sense to me... Wouldnt the 160 be too big?


Nope. It will work. 160mm adapter up front for a 160mm rotor and use the 160mm adapter in the rear for a 140mm rotor.

Here is one example.
_
The first adapter, Universal Cycles part #405 can be used as a 160mm front or a 140mm rear adapter. _

Here's a photo of my rear brake/rotor/mount. You can kind of see the numbers 160/140 on the bottom of the mount and you'll see the arrow at the top of the mount. It's an Avid 160/140 adapter with a 140mm rotor. I have the same one on the front with a 160mm rotor.



BB


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> Nope. It will work. 160mm adapter up front for a 160mm rotor and use the 160mm adapter in the rear for a 140mm rotor.
> 
> Here is one example.
> _
> ...


Thanks for clearing that up!

Is that a BB7? R u going back to mechanicals after hydros? Hows it working out for you? I've been contemplating that myself...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

fmf said:


> Thanks for clearing that up!
> 
> Is that a BB7? R u going back to mechanicals after hydros? Hows it working out for you? I've been contemplating that myself...


Yes, that is the older version of the BB7. It's a 2002 Type N Avid Mechanical caliper. How's it working for me? Well, it is now 2009 and I bought them in 2002. So I guess you could say that I am all with their performance to date.

I started with 185mm rotors front and rear (lived next to the Alps and that's what I thought I needed in the mountains). Downsized to the Alligator 180mm front and rear which were and great, but I was no longer living in the mountains. In an effort to cut weight, but keep performance I ordered the 160/140 rotors and adapters.

Now I am trying them out for the 2009 season with the 160mm front/140mm rear with the Alligator Windcutters. So far, so good. I've been riding them for 1 month now on training rides, daily morning 20 minute dog runs, off road hill climbs and interval work. I am very happy with the modulation, braking power and performance. It feels like just the right amount for the type of riding I do (XC and XC racing). I set my grips/shifters/levers up so I can use 1 finger braking or 2 finger braking (on the gnarly steep descents) using Avid Speed Dial Ultimate levers and X.0 Twisters on the Dos. One month of riding and braking and I have not yet had to adjust the BB7 pad dials.:thumbsup:

I'll be setting up a 2nd bike next week with the same rotors and brakes (using Paul Love Levers).

BB


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## rockhound (Dec 19, 2005)

If a front 160mm adapter works as a 140mm adapter on the rear...

...will a rear 160mm adapter work on the front with a 185mm rotor?


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Yes I have a IS mount XTR rear in the front with a 183 mm rotor.


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## fmf (Jun 30, 2006)

BruceBrown said:


> Yes, that is the older version of the BB7. It's a 2002 Type N Avid Mechanical caliper. How's it working for me? Well, it is now 2009 and I bought them in 2002. So I guess you could say that I am all with their performance to date.
> 
> I started with 185mm rotors front and rear (lived next to the Alps and that's what I thought I needed in the mountains). Downsized to the Alligator 180mm front and rear which were and great, but I was no longer living in the mountains. In an effort to cut weight, but keep performance I ordered the 160/140 rotors and adapters.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info again! Although I've never had mechanical discs, they sound like they'd be a lot easier to maintain than hydros....

I've seen on the boards here the I link housing... Looks cool! What kinda housing are you using for the BB7's?


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## j5ive (Sep 24, 2005)

Anyone tried these on formula brakes? How thick are these rotors?


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## Hologram (May 30, 2008)

Thickness is ca. 2 mm. Aren´t formula rotors thicker?

Just installed last night. I am using XTR brakes. Haven´t tested yet.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

fmf said:


> Thanks for the info again! Although I've never had mechanical discs, they sound like they'd be a lot easier to maintain than hydros....
> 
> I've seen on the boards here the I link housing... Looks cool! What kinda housing are you using for the BB7's?


I'm using Jagwire Ripcord on both of my bikes with these brakes. Keep in mind that the best performance is a full housing run to the front and the rear brakes. I looked into the iLinks which has a full liner run with the iLinks housing running to the cable stops. My bikes didn't have the correct cable stops for the brake run to the rear as the stops were all hydraulic hose mounts.

There is a guy who has one of the same bikes as I do (a Niner JET 9) who ran iLink housing the full run to his rear brake - so it can be done. Nino has the sets as well as the extra links and liner needed to do a full iLinks housing run.

I just couldn't justify the $$$ and worked out that there would be little weight savings for the cost. Here's a link to his JET 9 so you can see the full housing run to his BB7's:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=495076

BB


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## nikoli8 (Mar 23, 2008)

Are these the same rotor's FRM stamps as there's..
They look super similar... my shop just started selling the FRM's at double , what these are for..


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## 743power (Sep 25, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> They don't make a specific adapter for 140mm rear. It's just the 160mm front adapter, bolted to the rear frame mounts. I've never heard anything about bolting it on upside down though.


fwiw, avid now includes etchings of "<---160f 140r----->" on their adapters. Makes it easier if you walk into a bike shop looking for one and they have never heard of such a thing.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

so does it work with formula brakes?? thinkin about gettin some for my oro puros but not sure if these are thick enough


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## Bender (Jan 12, 2004)

FYI Tom from Torontocycles.com let me know they will start stocking these in 140mm but it may take a month or more. I'm not sure if this helps anyone else but I will be trying these with Formula B4SL brakes. I should be able to save about 44g off the stock Formula rotors. Swapping out only the rotors my B4SL brakes will weigh 588g complete with all hardware.


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## zooford (Dec 20, 2006)

anyone have experience with the new (?) starlight or cirrus rotors from alligator? supposed to be 76g (cirrus) and 78g (starlight) in 160mm...


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## RiceKilla (Apr 21, 2008)

Been running the windcutters on my bike for a week thus far. 2006 Avid J7's.

New setup is 203/F and 160/R. Previously had roundagons 203 F/R. Good thing with the new 160mm on the rear is, still has good stopping power, just not as easy to lock up the rear, which is a positive for me.

Front still bites the same, and feels the same, so no complaints here. Saved almost 1/2 pound without compromising braking. Running stock avid Juicy pads..

Eventually I'll post a long term review.

PS- They're on sale at Pricepoint, so pick them up for a few bucks cheaper until the end of Aprl!


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

just installed the 180/160 rotors on my bike with koolstop pads, Im using formula oro puros, and all i can say is WOW, what an upgrade, only $30 shipped and saved 50 grams, and increased stopping power, plus they look better : )


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

nino said:


> if you're looking for superlight brakes you might take a closer look at FRMs new brake (160/140)...all that's missing on the below pic is the 17g rear IS-adapter!


where can I find these in the US???


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16...Disc/Alligator-Serration-Disc-Brake-Rotor.htm

best price i could find, only 12 bucks


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## theextremist04 (Jul 15, 2008)

I'm using them with the 2009 Oro K24s...and even with the stock pads I'm not having any issues with them wearing too fast. Once they're bedded in they're powerful, good looking, and light (and crazy cheap!)


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## tdotrider (Aug 1, 2008)

Quick question guys - I ordered a set of these 160mm & 180mm off pricepoint and was wondering whether I had to get a special 180mm adapter vs. a typical 185mm one. The guy @ pricepoint told me that the 185mm should work just fine. Well I got the parts, installed it all but notice a TON of chatter from my fork ('08 Fox 120RL) under heavy braking. Could this be the result of using the 185mm adapter instead of a 180mm one?


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

Question - do you think the performance and function of these has alot to do with the size of the pads in your disc brake? Specifically, the height, and where the pad contacts the rotor vs. the holes?


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

tdotrider said:


> Quick question guys - I ordered a set of these 160mm & 180mm off pricepoint and was wondering whether I had to get a special 180mm adapter vs. a typical 185mm one. The guy @ pricepoint told me that the 185mm should work just fine. Well I got the parts, installed it all but notice a TON of chatter from my fork ('08 Fox 120RL) under heavy braking. Could this be the result of using the 185mm adapter instead of a 180mm one?


I'd think the 185mm adapter would work just fine - I laid my Alligator 180mm on top of my Avid 185mm, and it's really not that much of a size difference. 5mm overall is only 2.5mm at the radius. Not sure about the chatter, though. This is with the Alligator rotor installed?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

turbodog said:


> Question - do you think the performance and function of these has alot to do with the size of the pads in your disc brake? Specifically, the height, and where the pad contacts the rotor vs. the holes?


Provided you are running the appropriate adapter for the caliper to mate the rotor size with the adapter size, there's very little adjustment one can make with where the pad contacts the rotor. But you might be correct in thinking that if one has a disc brake that has "less tall" pads than other models with the end result being that a particular pad dimension may contact more or less of the rotor, performance may be different.

I can vouch for the BB7 size pads working very well with these rotors. I'm amazed that my switch to 160mm front and 140mm rear this year from 180/180 last year is giving me the same great braking where I ride.

What brakes are you using and which pads do they take?

BB


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

cmh said:


> I'd think the 185mm adapter would work just fine - I laid my Alligator 180mm on top of my Avid 185mm, and it's really not that much of a size difference. 5mm overall is only 2.5mm at the radius. Not sure about the chatter, though. This is with the Alligator rotor installed?


You definitely need a 180 adapter! The pads will sit too far out on the Windcutters using the 185.

I also used a 180 Windcutter on my Juicy Ultimates and definitely had to get a 180. Virtually any adapter works BUT you might have to file a little bit to make room for those tiny "handles" on the Avid pads. Once you mount them you will see what i mean. Avid adapters are thinner in the middle and make room for those handles. other adapters like the one from shimano are square shaped and need to be shaved a little bit. no big deal and done in 2 minutes.


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## turbodog (Feb 28, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> Provided you are running the appropriate adapter for the caliper to mate the rotor size with the adapter size, there's very little adjustment one can make with where the pad contacts the rotor. But you might be correct in thinking that if one has a disc brake that has "less tall" pads than other models with the end result being that a particular pad dimension may contact more or less of the rotor, performance may be different.
> 
> I can vouch for the BB7 size pads working very well with these rotors. I'm amazed that my switch to 160mm front and 140mm rear this year from 180/180 last year is giving me the same great braking where I ride.
> 
> ...


I'm currently running a shimano m800/m965 combo with a2z sawblade 180/160 rotors, they work fine, but I need rotors for a 2nd wheelset. The pads are not very tall.

Compare visable wear area in these three pics:

To the inside?










Towards the middle:



















( ^ similar to my brakes, BTW)

To the outside:


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## tdotrider (Aug 1, 2008)

I only noticed the chatter after installing the new alligator rotors. I couldn't pinpoint the issue because not only did I change from the G3 Cleansweep to the Alligator Windcutter, but I also went up a size on the front rotor. I just filed my 185mm Avid adapter down 2.5mm, would that suffice or should I go out and try to find a 180mm adapter somewhere?

I also noticed that the Avid adapter had an arrow on one side of it, should the arrow be pointing up or down when installed?


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## bobbyj0708 (Feb 14, 2008)

I tried the 185 Avid adapter with the 180 Windcutter for my Code 5 and got the chatter in the front. The 160 setup in back works great. Just ordered a 180 Shimano adapter and hope to get the Windcutter back on the front soon.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

I have installed 203mm front Alligator windcutter rotor on a new wheel with stock XT brakes on Kona Coiler with a Wotan fork. Saved over 50g over XT 6-bolt disk, and it was less then half the price. Wotan has a direct 203mm post mount and XT seems to be perfectly positioned with the new rotor. Wear area is right to the inner ring under the serrated portion.

After a couple long rides with extended descends I did not notice any noises nor any drop in performance. I think modulation actually improved, while stopping power is still more then sufficient for my need. I do not know yet how it will affect pads life, but frankly, unless it does them in in a day, I would not care much. I have not had any overheating issues - I will keep monitoring it on a longer descends.

I think I will upgrade the rear 160mm that I run to 180mm Alligator - about the same weight, and it should be easier to modulate.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

If the arrow faces out from the wheel, you have it on the right way. If it faces in towards the spokes, it's backwards.


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## xcracer87 (Dec 30, 2005)

I got a pair of 160 rotors on some Elixir CRs. I noticed that I had pulsing sensation in the front brake, by inspection i saw that the pads were not making contact on sides closest to the axle (the pad was "skipping" into the holes). So I shaved down the front caliper mount to get a better pad contact patch on the rotor and problem solved!

Now I have to replace my rear pads after TWO WEEKS of use and 150 miles.

I am now going to switch back to stock rotors and upgrade the pads with the AVID Organic with the Aluminum backplate.

Sorry but i think the only way to go is SCRUBS. but thats a whole different ball game.Has anyone tired any of the other alligator rotor styles....


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

Couple thoughts:


I've been running Alligator 160mms on my wife's bike with Marta SLs for a while, near a year now. No problems at all.

Just swapped the rear Marta SL caliper for another front caliper, and replaced the rear 160mm disk with a 140mm disc. 
Cutest little thing! Wanna put it on my keychain. Hasn't been used to actually stop the bike yet, but don't foresee any problems.

I have a 180mm Alligator that I've just mounted up on my front wheel, and will use it with an Avid Juicy 7 that has a 185mm mount. 
Will report as to noise and performance, hopefully as soon as tomorrow.

I'm pretty embarrassed but amused to admit this. While comparing my 180mm Alligator to the 185mm Avid, I realized I've had the Avid disk 
mounted *backwards* since April. 
Really surprised I managed to do that. Arrow mounted inboard, just like it's not supposed to be. 
Funniest part is I was still careful enough to torque all six bolts to 55 in-lbs with a torque wrench... after mounting the damned disk *backwards*. 
Guess my point here is we should _all_ pay attention while working on our bikes! :thumbsup: :madman:


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

cmh:
your last bullet point probably resonates in some way w/ more folks than we care to admit......


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*wrong pads!*



xcracer87 said:


> I got a pair of 160 rotors on some Elixir CRs. I noticed that I had pulsing sensation in the front brake, by inspection i saw that the pads were not making contact on sides closest to the axle (the pad was "skipping" into the holes). So I shaved down the front caliper mount to get a better pad contact patch on the rotor and problem solved!
> 
> Now I have to replace my rear pads after TWO WEEKS of use and 150 miles.
> 
> ...


The only problem was that you most probably had the wrong pads. By now it is well known that these rotors work best using some sintered pads. i have best results with EBC gold. They last forever(!) and have great braking performance.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I know someone who turned one of these into a pretzel and the braking was inconsistent throughout. 

Don't even bother with these rotors.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I know someone who turned one of these into a pretzel and the braking was inconsistent throughout.
> 
> Don't even bother with these rotors.


Huh? Seems quite unlikely.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I know someone who turned one of these into a pretzel and the braking was inconsistent throughout.
> 
> Don't even bother with these rotors.


I don't doubt that some might have negative experiences. wrong pads, old and glazed ones, bad setup,...everything possible. But for a vast majority these are proven performers.

Florian Vogel: swiss champion, european champion, 2nd in the worldchampionships ...a top shot in the crosscountry racing scene...

160/140 Windcutters


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I've seen that pic before, and that makes me doubt the qualifications even more because racers don't win by being on the brakes. They win through superior handling skills at high speeds, coupled with strength and endurance.


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## Radical_53 (Nov 22, 2006)

I haven't seen a fast race car that didn't have good brakes, have you?

The pads make these discs work or fail. If you have the right pad, they're as "good" as the original. But with the wrong pad you can have it all, from strange noises to bad smelling smoke or even total loss of braking force.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

I didn't know racing mountain bikes was identical to racing cars.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I didn't know racing mountain bikes was identical to racing cars.


You live and you learn. 

Seriously though - are you jerking us around?


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

*update on 180mm rotor in 185mm brake*

I tested the 180mm Alligator rotor in my 185mm Avid Juicy 7 brake today, since a previous poster had mentioned issued with the brakes pulsing. This isn't something that I had seen with smaller rotors and Magura Marta SLs, but was easy enough to test.

Short answer: OMG pulse central.  The disc was brand new but riding around the parking lot it pulsed so bad my fork (09 Reba 29er) was flexing backwards and forwards over 1" at the dropouts as I came to a stop. Figuring it could be a factor of the brand new rotor, I did the whole ride (~10mi I guess) and have to say the pulsing was still there but not bad as long as I wasn't coming to a stop. At the end of the ride, I re-tested in the parking lot, and it still pulsed. No idea if that's related to using a 180mm disk in a brake sized for a 185mm disk. I do know it was annoying as hell at low speed.

I don't have a 180mm post-mount adapter, so won't be able to test with the 180mm disk/180mm brake. I think someone else did mention they were getting one, so maybe they can say if they had any problems.

I'll also be able to test the 180mm disk with a 180mm IS Magura Marta SL very soon, hopefully as soon as tomorrow. Guessing that will be fine, but we'll see.

Otherwise, these disks are great.

cmh


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## erbieb02 (Mar 30, 2006)

Quick Take: Good quality product, bad pattern, go with another shape.

I just took a pair off of my bike. After only three weeks of trail use and one particularly muddy endurance race they were shot. I went through a pair of EBC Gold pads in the rear and developed a extreme vibration in the front in just over 7 hours. Apparently the abrasion of the mud removed material from between the saw teeth where there is less surface area for the brake pads. This made the front brake stutter badly.

Otherwise they were quiet and effective. They do not provide the same raw stopping power that my factory Hope Mini discs did in the same size with the same pads. Like EBC's website says, they have extremly low surface area and will cause accelerated pad wear. 

Otherwise I think that Alligator's product is high quality, just the windcutter pattern is a bad one. I'll probably buy a set of their wavy or round rotors for replacement.

-Eric


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I didn't know racing mountain bikes was identical to racing cars.


I don't normally say this to anyone, but if you don't have any of your own experience to contribure, you should probably just stay out of this one. Otherwise, you're just trolling, eh?

Personally, I've now used them with my BB7s (160mm) and they work great! Thanks to Bruce Brown for his advice. I'll be getting some K24s soon and I'll try them with those too on my FS bike.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

I mounted windcutter 160r and 180f on my Avid Juicy setup, and I used an Avid "rear" 160 adaptor for the front (since it's a 180mm adaptor when used that way). My pads track well, and I'm using the oem Avid pads. So far, so good. They feel good, brake well and don't squeal unless wet.


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## StabMasta (May 3, 2007)

Hey all, 

Would it be wise to install new pads when I receive my 160mm rotors or can I just use my stock (well broken in) BB7 pads? If so, what pads would you recommend for these rotors?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

StabMasta said:


> Hey all,
> 
> Would it be wise to install new pads when I receive my 160mm rotors or can I just use my stock (well broken in) BB7 pads? If so, what pads would you recommend for these rotors?


Yes -new rotors perform best with new pads (flat contact area)

I found EBC gold to perform great on these rotors. Pads do make a big difference in how these rotors perform.They should be sintered otherwise they might have a very short lifespan.


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## fasteddyb (May 12, 2009)

nino said:


> Yes -new rotors perform best with new pads (flat contact area)
> 
> I found EBC gold to perform great on these rotors. Pads do make a big difference in how these rotors perform.They should be sintered otherwise they might have a very short lifespan.


what about the Swissstop Pads???

also, I run Marta SL brakes, will these work properly since i've been reading on some bad experiences....

What about the new Aries brake from Alligator??


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

fasteddyb said:


> also, I run Marta SL brakes, will these work properly since i've been reading on some bad experiences....


Running these with Marta SLs, no problems so far, with 160mm front and rear, 140mm rear, and 180mm front, although there is some pulsing/grabbiness with the bigger 180mm rotor. (that's a rear caliper mounted up front, with used pads)

On my Avid Juicy 7s (adapter for 185mm, not 180mm) there's crazy pulsing, but that might be a function of the mount being 2.5mm too high.


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

run the 160mm on juicy ultimate, xtr '07, xtr 08, no problem whatsoever, apart from squeeling briefly on one setup (forget which now)

:thumbsup:


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## FortOrdDirt (Apr 7, 2008)

Sorry if it has been covered a million times before^^, but jsut to be 100% sure. I am running juicy 7s right now. Would the metallic pads I am using right now be a good pair with the gators? OR is something else better? Thanks


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

FortOrdDirt said:


> Sorry if it has been covered a million times before^^, but jsut to be 100% sure. I am running juicy 7s right now. Would the metallic pads I am using right now be a good pair with the gators? OR is something else better? Thanks


But you can read, do you?
Just scroll up 3 or 4 posts-thanks.

And yes - it got asked 2 million times already


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## FortOrdDirt (Apr 7, 2008)

Thanks:crazy:


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Nino,
Have you tried the Alligator Sintered pads with them. They are so cheap....

G


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

Ok, Now I've felt the pulsing. These rotors worked fine front and rear with my 2008 BB7s but the front brake definitely has a noticable pulsing sensation when braking hard with my new K24s. Great brakes by the way. I can't feel it in the rear, but I can feel it up front pretty easily.

I noticed the pulsing on the very first ride and it can't be adjusted out. I don't know the reason why I didn't notice it with the Avids, but I think it probably has to do with the way the calipers squeeze the rotor to stop with the BB7s compared to the k24s and maybe the way the pads are shaped and such. I asked about the non-floating Formula rotors in the R1 thread because they are actuallly a bit lighter than these Alligators, eh, but don't have the same amount of open space at the actual braking surface. They cost nearly 3 times as much as the Alligator rotors but it may be worth it to give them a try next. They're actually pretty inexpensive at Pricepoint relatively speaking.

By the way, they still work great on front and rear. They took almost zero break in time on the k24s. I was stopping like they came stock with the brakes witin minutes. It might be worth trying a different pad combo, but that might defeat one of the reasons for getting such light and cheap rotors in the first place.


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

pastajet said:


> Conclusions: Great place to save weight, modulate well, great stopping power, great heat dissipation and the best part you can feather the brakes. Highly recommended. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


I never would've considered these rotors if it weren't for this thread.
I'd seen them at several LBSs over the last year and never took a second look, thinking they were just some cheap, unknown brand rotors that were just for bling.
Thanks to pastajet for posting [and everyone else who chimed in] :thumbsup: 
Got the rotors for USD~24/pair at a LBS. If going by WeightWeenies.com, I probably saved about 25g per wheel over the stock Avid rotors. I'm no weight weenie, but in SS riding, any weight savings is a plus.

_front_









_rear_









Just had them installed this morning (I stripped a couple of torx heads using my multitool while trying to remove the old rotors, and the other bolts were too tight, so I had to bring it to the shop :nono: :madman: ) so I haven't had the chance to try them out yet. Hopefully tomorrow.
FYI, I'm running Avid BBDBs and have the 160-mm rotors front and rear, on a 69er'd rigid SS.

Anyone tried the Alligator rotors with SLX brakes? I'm thinking of finally moving to hydros, and am eyeing the SLXs.


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

I tried those rotors with three different pads and they're just total crap! I'm using Juicy 7's.

OK maybe for XC racing but nothing more. Pads will wear fast and power will be weaker. 

No one-finger endos with those rotors...


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

plussa said:


> I tried those rotors with three different pads and they're just total crap! I'm using Juicy 7's.
> 
> OK maybe for XC racing but nothing more. Pads will wear fast and power will be weaker.
> 
> No one-finger endos with those rotors...


what pads are you running? defiantly have to match the pads to these rotors.....sintered...

i run the cutters for races and use the wavys of everyday training. i find that my pads last a tad bit longer and have better stopping power due to more material. slight weight penalty.

the pulsing is not as pad as well. i run formula brakes 24k/the one on all my bikes now.

.


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## collideous (Jul 1, 2006)

r1Gel said:


> Just had them installed this morning (I stripped a couple of torx heads using my multitool while trying to remove the old rotors, and the other bolts were too tight, so I had to bring it to the shop


First time I've seen someone using washers. Bad idea I think. There might be a higher risk of slippage and as a result self loosening of the bolts. Did the LBS mount them like this?


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

OilcanRacer said:


> what pads are you running?


Tried with EBC green, Avid Stock ones and finally EBC gold sintered. The sintered ones just crumbled down when I did some stops from 20mph...

I had a 180mm front rotor and I weigh 170lb.

If you want lighter weight and weaker power, just go to v-brakes!!!


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## r1Gel (Jan 14, 2004)

collideous said:


> First time I've seen someone using washers. Bad idea I think. There might be a higher risk of slippage and as a result self loosening of the bolts. Did the LBS mount them like this?


Actually, yes, the LBS mech did it like this. Strange, I would've thought washers were to keep screws from loosening  
And the washers were included in the rotor package


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Nino
I can't find EBC gold pads in my neck of the woods, do you know if Alligator sintered pads are comparable to the EBC pad.
Thanks


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

xc71 said:


> Nino
> I can't find EBC gold pads in my neck of the woods, do you know if Alligator sintered pads are comparable to the EBC pad.
> Thanks


I think Avid Ultimates come with sintered pads. When i first installed my Avids i was a bit disappointed by the brakepower and went with 180/160 rotor size.When i switched to the EBC gold i was able to go one size smaller on the rotors front and rear !! For me a huge difference. My EBCs last very,very long. I lost track about the mileage... it's that long.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

My 203mm with stock Shimano XT pads keeps working fine. I did notice that the rotor is easier to bend then the stock XT, so I do quick check if it is straight before a ride - and had to bend it back a few times if I knocked it in transit. Does not seem to affect performance. No heating, pulsing or other problems of note - this one runs on a Kona Coiler, and descends here are quite long on occasion, well in excess of 1000 ft vertical at a time in many places, and I am around 200lb with gear.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

plussa said:


> The sintered ones just crumbled down when I did some stops from 20mph...


Somehow that does not sound very plausible.


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## plussa (Jul 12, 2005)

Curmy said:


> Somehow that does not sound very plausible.


Ok, I'll post pics later if I still have the pads lying around...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

plussa said:


> Ok, I'll post pics later if I still have the pads lying around...


yeah-something sounds weird here.maybe packaged wrong? i hear such comments from certain organics but definitely not from sintered pads.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

xc71 said:


> Nino
> I can't find EBC gold pads in my neck of the woods, do you know if Alligator sintered pads are comparable to the EBC pad.
> Thanks


They are available online - which, with shipping, covers all necks and woods.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

BTW I use these on one of my bikes and they seem to work just fine, just thought I would say that. They do seem like they would be more prone to bending in a crash, but that is not related to if the slow a bike down well or not.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

On last couple rides my 203mm aligator/XT developed a sever vibration when applied with little pressure. It goes away when I brake harder. Need to investigate. No obvious alignment or straightness or contamination issues.


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

Curmy said:


> On last couple rides my 203mm aligator/XT developed a sever vibration when applied with little pressure. It goes away when I brake harder. Need to investigate. No obvious alignment or straightness or contamination issues.


I assume you checked the bolts? I had the exact problem on a different rotor when some of the bolts came a bit loose.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

sxotty said:


> I assume you checked the bolts? I had the exact problem on a different rotor when some of the bolts came a bit loose.


Yeah. Will try to figure out tomorrow - I wanted to change pads anyway.


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## fasteddyb (May 12, 2009)

*180mm & 160mm tested on Marta SL*

Hi,

i've setup my bike this weekend with the 180mm & 160mm (F&R) on my bike, using the Magura Marta SL's with Swissstop Pads (used).

I can say that brake performance is on par with the stock rotors, but they tend to last longer (no fade on long decents)

One thing I noticed was a minor pulsing sensation on the front rotor, but that might be because of the used Swissstop pads and in no way it's anoying... Padlife is unsure since they rotors are brand new.

Other than that I must say these are great!!!!

Edgar


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Wow, my thread is now 2.5 years old! You will get some pulsing with the Magura's and the Alligator Serrated rotors IMHO, I think it has to do with the Magura's modulation, which sort of acts like ABS on a car. I never could get my front pulsing to go away, in fact I switched to the Ashima AiRotors instead due to that issue.

Peace!


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i just got mine in yesterday and rode them today. man do these look sicker in person! same if not better then my old hays discs. 








thats the only shot i got so far.


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## fasteddyb (May 12, 2009)

pastajet said:


> Wow, my thread is now 2.5 years old! You will get some pulsing with the Magura's and the Alligator Serrated rotors IMHO, I think it has to do with the Magura's modulation, which sort of acts like ABS on a car. I never could get my front pulsing to go away, in fact I switched to the Ashima AiRotors instead due to that issue.
> 
> Peace!


I fully agree, however it's not as bad as some people here say!!!! and it doesn't effect the brake performance......


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

Ti-Nitrite


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## vostok4 (Jul 18, 2006)

Does anyone know where to source these in the States? Pricepoint is on backorder, fleabay is all shipping from Asia, and nothing else shows up in a trusty Google search.


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## Relayden (Jun 15, 2005)

vostok4 said:


> Does anyone know where to source these in the States? Pricepoint is on backorder, fleabay is all shipping from Asia, and nothing else shows up in a trusty Google search.


Check with Torontocycles, they have the Ashima branded which is the same rotor.


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## MichaelW (Jul 10, 2006)

Well I feel I have to chime in on this lively discussion. 

I have put over 700 miles(only 100 of these miles in XC races) of racing on these rotors. They are by far some of the best rotors I have used. The noise when wet is a bit much, but I have yet to find a brake or rotor that is quite when wet. I race 24 Hours in the Old Pueblo last Feb. and did not notice a change in braking in the 12 laps (200 miles)/24 hours of racing. I did Leadville on them and when they got wet they were noisey, everyones brakes were, and they dried off fast. Braking power never decreased when wet.

I got a set form Tom @ Torontocyles , and I also got a set from pricepoint they both work equally well. I would put these on any bike I ride, but what do I know I just race my bike for 6, 12, 24 hours & 100 miles.


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## Conguito (May 23, 2009)

I use in my scale windcutter 160 front and 140 rear and I dont have any problem to brake da bike, my brakes are juicy ultimate with organic pads.


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## zazadojo (Apr 16, 2009)

I had to get in on this...I have to say that these are beasts and will keep using them. I ride CC and have no need to be running the 203`s like i am. I am merely running the huge rotors because I can, and I think they look kick ass.


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## rrl (Sep 21, 2008)

is the alligator serrated disc rotor the same as the one by gusset?? . i just bought a pair of those


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

rrl said:


> is the alligator serrated disc rotor the same as the one by gusset?? . i just bought a pair of those


From the photo and claimed weight of 94g at Universal Cycles, I'd say yes.















https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22035
~Jake

PS. Did you weigh yours?​*EDIT:*
For the price of the gusset you could of got the Alligator Wind-Cutter.
https://www.pricepoint.com/detail.htm?stylePkey=17164&style_id=115 ALIWC7

Or the Alligator Serration for even less.
https://www.pricepoint.com/detail.htm?stylePkey=16245&style_id=115 ALISR7

_


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

*Alligator WindCutter with Elixirs*

Guys,
few things...

I've just ordered regular, steel WindCutter 203 and 180mm rotors for my Elixir set of brakes.

(edit) Original Elixir (still new) organic pads won't work. 
It seems Elixirs do come with sintered pads http://www.sram.com/en/avid/hydraulicdiscbrakes/elixircr.php# Will they do the trick with WindCutters?
However, does EBC already have Gold pads for Elixirs in the offer?
Or maybe different brand? A2Z? Zeit? Unex??

What about rear Avid 185mm adapter. Nino says You have to use 180mm adapter. Would it be OK to cut original adapter with some precise tools?
Or maybe Hope rear 183mm adapter I get within few days will be just fine? Just 1,5mm radius difference...?

thx for advices

PS. I have almost forgotten... Look what EBC says! :O
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/mountain_bike_brakes/index.shtml


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

frango said:


> PS. I have almost forgotten... Look what EBC says! :O
> http://www.ebcbrakes.com/mountain_bike_brakes/index.shtml


EBC *Gold* ONLY! The others are no good.

Get yourself a 180 adapter! Adapters don't cost that much.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

frango said:


> Would it be OK to cut original adapter with some precise tools?
> Or maybe Hope rear 183mm adapter I get within few days will be just fine?


Get a 180mm adapter. I use one from Magura.

That said, I have gave up on front 203mm Aligator on my AM bike with XT hydros. I can not completely get rid of vibration and power is noticeably less then with a Shimano 203. Gained 50g back, but then it performed flawlessly yesterday at Downieville. Keeping the rear 180, it works just fine. Also running 160mm rear on another bike. I like it more in the rear.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Curmy said:


> I like it more in the rear.




_____________Say it ain't so


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

nino said:


> EBC *Gold* ONLY! The others are no good.


But I can't see EBC pads for Elixirs...


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## GFisher2001 (Mar 16, 2006)

Any extended reviews about these or any Alligator rotors with Avid Elixirs?


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

GFisher2001 said:


> Any extended reviews about these or any Alligator rotors with Avid Elixirs?


I'm using one right now in the front. Works fine, but there is a sort of pulsing when your not breaking hard.


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## zazadojo (Apr 16, 2009)

i have used the 8" on front and back all summer and still using them....i have only had any "pulse" issues after they get worked on and are not adjusted according to my bike. once i get that first ride in there is no issue at all. i have no fade and i am a brake queen....lol..i am using last years elixir R's.


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

I've been using the Windcutters 160mm front and back for a year now. At first with BB7's and now with Formula Oro K24's. They have never pulsed. Worked well with the BB7's and work even better with the Formula's.


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## Burtonrider250 (Aug 31, 2006)

So I just ordered 2 of these badboys, 180MM.

I have avid juicy 5's. Was I supposed to order a special adapter or something to get them to fit??:madman:


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

What sizes are on your bike now ?


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## Burtonrider250 (Aug 31, 2006)

160MM both front and rear.


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

you will need adapters but one thing to remember is that Avid only makes a 185mm rotors so their 185 adapter won't work with the 180 alligators. but the Shimano adapters work great


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## Burtonrider250 (Aug 31, 2006)

scooter916 said:


> you will need adapters but one thing to remember is that Avid only makes a 185mm rotors so their 185 adapter won't work with the 180 alligators. but the Shimano adapters work great


Grrr!

I don't see any 180MM adapters... H'mmm..

http://jensonusa.com/store/product/BR407Z47-Shimano+Fork+Disc+Brake+Adapters.aspx


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

your LBS can get them from QBP, I ordered a set for a customer two weeks ago


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## Burtonrider250 (Aug 31, 2006)

deleted


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## Burtonrider250 (Aug 31, 2006)

Whoops, sorry wrong post.

Found them! http://www.blueskycycling.com/view_product.php?pid=5470

I have a Fox Vanilla fork, I'm assuming thats POST type fork, right?

Thanks for your help!


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## scooter916 (Jan 2, 2006)

if the fork has two holes WITH OUT threads it is I.S., if the two holes are threaded it post mount

post mount









I.S. standard


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## PaucH (Jul 24, 2009)

*Alligator Wind-Cutter / Serrated / "Finger-Cutter" rotors*

ok so here goes.. i had avid G2 Clean Sweeps & BB5 setup on myGiant Yukon FX 203m-F and 185mm R.. i knocked the Front rotors beyond recognition when i hit a rock garden & it was beyond any hopes ofgetting realligned.. any way so i got these Alligator Wind-Cutter / Serrated / "Finger Cutter" Rotors, 203 up front & 180 in the rear..i had the weird pulsing sensation when i brake using front rotors.. the vibration was violent that it could knock me out of line & even the Motion Control on the Fork cant remedy it. so i've read all the threads bought 203 adapters & shaved them, no go, tried sanding the edges of the pads (i'm using Jagwire Sintered Pads a lot cheaper than others but works fine for me:thumbsup: ) no go.. tried ignoring vibration but that was stupid :madman: because the vibration was similar to hitting pebbles & it makes my front tyre skip on pavement (like ABS from cars).. i took out the pads & rotors to study it.. seems that that 203 rotors have holes in them that is almost as big as the BB5/7 pads. while the 180 or smaller size pretty much covers it.. so now i installed 180mm Front & Rear and it was all well worth it.

For any future buyers: Hell of a good rotor but its not fit & forget..

you might want to ask LBS to check if they have pads similar to yours lying around the shop & try measuring it againts the rotors & rotor holes, if the pads for your caliper is bigger than any holes or covers most surface on the rotors chances are youre fine..

i hope these would help..


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## larsbaby (Apr 11, 2005)

PaucH said:


> ok so here goes.. i had avid G2 Clean Sweeps & BB5 setup on myGiant Yukon FX 203m-F and 185mm R.. i knocked the Front rotors beyond recognition when i hit a rock garden & it was beyond any hopes ofgetting realligned.. any way so i got these Alligator Wind-Cutter / Serrated / "Finger Cutter" Rotors, 203 up front & 180 in the rear..i had the weird pulsing sensation when i brake using front rotors.. the vibration was violent that it could knock me out of line & even the Motion Control on the Fork cant remedy it. so i've read all the threads bought 203 adapters & shaved them, no go, tried sanding the edges of the pads (i'm using Jagwire Sintered Pads a lot cheaper than others but works fine for me:thumbsup: ) no go.. tried ignoring vibration but that was stupid :madman: because the vibration was similar to hitting pebbles & it makes my front tyre skip on pavement (like ABS from cars).. i took out the pads & rotors to study it.. seems that that 203 rotors have holes in them that is almost as big as the BB5/7 pads. while the 180 or smaller size pretty much covers it.. so now i installed 180mm Front & Rear and it was all well worth it.
> 
> For any future buyers: Hell of a good rotor but its not fit & forget..
> 
> ...


Not sure that the bb5/7 uses the same pads (i know that they were different years ago), but i use bb7s and 203s in front without problems.


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## gbosbiker (Mar 10, 2009)

kinda digging the thread up, but im ordering a 180mm front and 160mm back for my bike. i got avid brakes, but im going to use an extra 160mm rear adapter for the front (works as a 180mm front..). im getting a set of bb7s too. so it will be bb7s front and i already have a set of bb5s and those will go on the back...

these are going on a dj bike, but with a u-turn pike, so ill be doing some dh and freeride with it too. ill be sure to report back on how they feel with the different uses. :thumbsup:


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## PaucH (Jul 24, 2009)

*203mm Windcutters @ Avid BB5*



gbosbiker said:


> kinda digging the thread up, but im ordering a 180mm front and 160mm back for my bike. i got avid brakes, but im going to use an extra 160mm rear adapter for the front (works as a 180mm front..). im getting a set of bb7s too. so it will be bb7s front and i already have a set of bb5s and those will go on the back...
> 
> these are going on a dj bike, but with a u-turn pike, so ill be doing some dh and freeride with it too. ill be sure to report back on how they feel with the different uses. :thumbsup:


hahaha cool setup.. but why not go BB7 all the way.. i mean so it will be easier for you to readjust pads in the long run..

yeah i think BB7's have wider/bigger pads..

and as an update after a little wear on my Jagwire BB5 pads on the 180mm, i said to myself what the heck & tried the 203mm Windcutters & guess what.. the pulsing/vibrating were drastically reduced while feathering the brakes.. but as soon as you squeeze tighter it comes back but not as violent as before.. maybe new pads needs to be bedded-in properly on some normal rotors before using them.. hassle to thers but acceptable to me..


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## gbosbiker (Mar 10, 2009)

PaucH said:


> hahaha cool setup.. but why not go BB7 all the way.. i mean so it will be easier for you to readjust pads in the long run..
> 
> yeah i think BB7's have wider/bigger pads..
> 
> and as an update after a little wear on my Jagwire BB5 pads on the 180mm, i said to myself what the heck & tried the 203mm Windcutters & guess what.. the pulsing/vibrating were drastically reduced while feathering the brakes.. but as soon as you squeeze tighter it comes back but not as violent as before.. maybe new pads needs to be bedded-in properly on some normal rotors before using them.. hassle to thers but acceptable to me..


I already have the bb5s with kool stop pads and they work amazing....and I'm on a budget...I can only afford one bb7...but if pulsating becomes a problem I'll get another bb7 later down the road or throw on a clean sweep rotor I got laying around...


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## Mountain_Rocker (Apr 4, 2009)

just installed the wind cutters.. 180 on my rear & 203 on my front. pads are new at the rear.. wondering if the stuttering will disappear.. any inputs?


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Mountain_Rocker said:


> just installed the wind cutters.. 180 on my rear & 203 on my front. pads are new at the rear.. wondering if the stuttering will disappear.. any inputs?


It takes a few rides to bed in the rotors and get rid of the judder (provided your calipers are perfectly aligned and you went with new sintered pads).

BB


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## Triaxtremec (May 21, 2011)

Bring this thread back from the dead, I just installed these on my bike that has the Shimano M445 Hydraulic Disc brake set up and was curious what most would think the best pad set up would be?


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## panicstop (Apr 26, 2012)

I am hoping to have the same luck for those of you who had good luck with these rotors. I have a 2013 Specialized Stump Jumper FSR Comp 29er. The bike came with Avid Elixir 5 brakes. The front brake has been working fine, slight 'turkey call' noise but not terrible. The rear brake could wake the dead! I have tried several recommended fixes and using these rotors is a last ditch effort to get the braking performance back with out the howl. If this doesn't work then my tandem goes and XT brakes will replace the Avids. I have ordered a 160 & 180 this evening from Price Point and will follow up after install and a few rides. Hope they work, I really could use the money for other parts


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## defenestratingchupacabra1 (Jul 6, 2010)

I have had these for about 3 years and they have worked consistently great, very little noise compared to my stock avid rotors.


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## S.O.B. (Mar 17, 2008)

defenestratingchupacabra1 said:


> I have had these for about 3 years and they have worked consistently great, very little noise compared to my stock avid rotors.


Ditto that. I have been using these since 2009. I have always purchased them for pretty cheap at Pricepoint.com...in fact whenever they are on sale I grab some...have four mounted on two bikes and four more hanging on my wall. Definitely better than the Avid Clean Sweeps that came with my Juicy Carbons (basically the Juicy 7 w/carbon bits). I have also used these with BB7's and Elixir 5's and they have been solid. FWIW I ride these between 2-3 thousand miles a year, no need to use anything else.


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

Had mine for a year and they are still v. quiet. Replaced my Avid HS1s due to vibration/noise issues on my Stumpy. Only downside is that they EAT brake pads.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

panicstop said:


> I am hoping to have the same luck for those of you who had good luck with these rotors. I have a 2013 Specialized Stump Jumper FSR Comp 29er. The bike came with Avid Elixir 5 brakes. The front brake has been working fine, slight 'turkey call' noise but not terrible. The rear brake could wake the dead! I have tried several recommended fixes and using these rotors is a last ditch effort to get the braking performance back with out the howl. If this doesn't work then my tandem goes and XT brakes will replace the Avids. I have ordered a 160 & 180 this evening from Price Point and will follow up after install and a few rides. Hope they work, I really could use the money for other parts


Are they organic or sintered? If you didn't install new pads with the new Serrated Rotors - it takes a bit of time for the pads to bed in and adjust to the new rotor as the pads had worn to the shape of your previous rotors.

Your pads could also be dirty from mud, dirt, oil, accidental soap getting in there from a previous cleaning, etc... .

I would use some light sandpaper to sand off the dirt/oil/residue/etcc of the pads, reinstall and see if that takes care of the noise in the rear.

BB (Using BB7's with 160mm front/140mm rear on all bikes - RIP, JET, Karate Monkey, Dos Niner and my wife's Air 9)


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## cbd5600 (Jul 6, 2012)

I have Wind Cutters (180) front and back and they work great.


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