# Does this exist? Steel flat bar Cyclo-Roadie?



## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

I think I'm searching for something very exotic in the hopes to replace something very common. I have a Giant Cypress SX. The frame is from a common hybrid, but it came with with an atypical hybrid build - road triple gearing and close ratio road cassette, rigid steel fork, rigid post, flat bar, non-adjustable stem and road wheels with 28c road tires. Basically a flat bar road bike which is exactly what I was looking for. I have since upgraded many of the parts to make it lighter, faster and yet more comfortable. While I love the geo and the attitude of the bike I have lately wished to replace the harsh cheap aluminum frame with a comfy steel model. Last year I did the same with my XC hardtail - replaced the harsh aluminum race frame with comfy steel and it made a HUGE difference, more than I ever imagined. Since then I vowed from now on that any hardtail of mine would be steel (or carbon for a true roadie).

What is out there? I'm only looking for a frame, maybe frame + fork. I want to transfer the rest of the major parts from the Cypress.

-CX bikes seemed obvious initially. Proper mid-40c's tire clearance, mounts for my V-brakes, clearance for road gearing, etc. I'm concerned though because the top tube lengths are so short for a given size because of the drop handlebars. I will never be able to ride drops due to a wrist problem. I use long stems (120-140mm) and flat carbon bars on my Cypress). Whereas most size L mtb/hybrids offer 23.5-24.5" tt, CX seems to be more like 21.5-22" and I don't think I can or should try to make that up with a stem.

-29" MTB maybe. Proper top tube lengths, gobs of tire clearance, can still find some with V-brake mounts, etc. Concerns would be really low BB height with a non suspension corrected fork and short road/CX tires, possible clearance issues with my road double (39/53) crank. Need to pinch the frame to fit a 130mm rear hub into a 135mm dropout (not a terrible concern with a steel frame).

I keep talking myself in circles so I though maybe some of you would want to weigh in. And a few pics to help explain what I'm riding now.


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## 251 (May 13, 2008)

I like my Gunnar Crosshairs. While mine is setup with drop bars, I don't see why it couldn't be configured with flat bars. I don't know what size frame you ride, but the Crosshairs has a 20.5" to 23.5" top tube depending on frame size.

Have you considered a lay-back seat post?

The Gunnar:


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## enio (Jun 6, 2007)

nice pic.


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## DBR18210 (Sep 22, 2005)

*Cotic Roadrat?*

http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

DBR18210 said:


> http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/roadrat


Daddy likes! That is the spirit of what I'm looking for, exactly!


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## RickD. (Apr 7, 2004)

I have a 2004 Trek 520 that I'm seriously considering making into just that. Gonna put a flat bar (probably) on there, some cantilever brakes because I like how they look, and a White Industries Eccentric ENO hub to make it a single speed. I use the bike on tours once or twice a year, but I can just swap it back for those.


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## pedalitup (May 30, 2007)

If you're gonna convert a touring or CX frame to flat bar you need to sacrifice as much standover clearance as you can at time of purchase. This gets you enough TT length to do the flat bar wo needing too long a stem. This usually works best for those with relatively short torso/long legs. Touring frames work better than CX frames because of the longer wheelbase that allows more seat layback. The handling of my touring frame actually improved when I used a 15mm longer stem with the flat bar as theres no longer a need to be hyperstabilized for extra weight on the fork. The CX conversion has much quicker handling thats less appropriate for ice or loose surfaces.

I have both in steel, and yes, the ride quality is far superior to aluminum.

I would reconsider the canti break plan. Unless you need mud clearance they aren't worth the hassle. Never have I enjoyed losing something so utterly worthless in all my years of cycling. And yes, I know how to adjust 'em. Still, they aren't any good. 

Hope this helps, good luck


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## KeylessChuck (Apr 15, 2006)

The Jamis Coda is a flat bar road/cx bike, but probably don't have room for a 40mm tire.
The LeMond Poprads have relatively long op tubes for cx bikes.
Check out the Kona Sutra.

Maybe a steel 29er frame would work? Long top tubes, tons of stand over, room for whatever tire you could want,


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I have never seen a picture of a bike with the shoes attached before. You must have stopped in a hurry :eekster:


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

CommuterBoy said:


> I have never seen a picture of a bike with the shoes attached before. You must have stopped in a hurry :eekster:


Haha. Just the way I sometimes hang it in the garage is all.


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## pedalitup (May 30, 2007)

Yes, my converted 52cm poprad frame has a longish 54cm top tube. Its tricked out with rack, carbon CX fork and skinny planet bike fenders and tips the scale at 22 lbs. 

The 52cm REI randonee touring frame is even longer at just short of 55cm top tube. The whole bike with rack, full fenders and 32c SB8 snow tires is 24 lbs. These frames, that take up to 42c tires, are super hard to find. I think the Surly LHT is close to this. . . 

Both of the frames are steel and have built on accesory eyelets. 

If you're Ok with shouldering a backpack then I would agree that the 29er frame is the way to go, especially since it allows the use of disc brakes which are superior for use in rain.


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## emtnate (Feb 9, 2008)

Check out the Surly frames. They have several that would do what you want.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Bulldog said:


> Daddy likes! That is the spirit of what I'm looking for, exactly!


This is perfect. Big road/CX tires or up to a 29x1.75 knobby, V-brake or disk, compact frame (not a "square" road/CX style), Road or mountain cranks/rings, racks/fenders. Whatever crazy ideas I could have in the future could be possible. The price ain't bad either, though overseas shipping sucks. And it's STEEL. I have gotten several email from Paul @ Cotic already, cool guy. Thanks to DBR18210 for that link!


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*Roadrat looks cool!*

I have been looking at the Roadrat for a single speed road/cross/townie bike too. 
Bike looks awesome . I think I would get drop bar version and put on some nice fat "monster " cross tires.
Did they give you an idea on shipping cost from UK? and total cost?


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> I have been looking at the Roadrat for a single speed road/cross/townie bike too.
> Bike looks awesome . I think I would get drop bar version and put on some nice fat "monster " cross tires.
> Did they give you an idea on shipping cost from UK? and total cost?


Shipping is 95GBP or about $140. That sucks on a $370 frame but together still makes a fair deal to me.


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## Tweezak (Aug 24, 2008)

Surly Karate Monkey. Available as a frame or complete bike. This is probably the most versatile frame I have seen with every braze-on imaginable. Horizontal dropouts for running single speed but a place for a hanger if you want a derailleur, fender mounts, disc tabs, rack mounts, canti bosses, etc. It's a 29er frame so 700c wheels are no problem.

If you want something more roadie...maybe the Cross Check or the Long Haul Trucker. With either of those, you are limited to rim brakes (if that matters to you). Anyway, Surly makes great steel frames.

http://www.surlybikes.com/km_comp.html


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*Options...*

looks like steel single speed options are...
Cotic Roadrat $520 to US
Surly Cross Check $420 w/ free shipping
Vassago Fisticuff $580 avail in Feb
On One Il Pompino $250 now if 57 fits othewise? A littly flashy  
Kogswell $600
Singular Peregrine $775 to US ( very nice paint job)
any others?

29er frames are heavier and don't work well with drop bars...IMO


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> 29er frames are heavier and don't work well with drop bars...IMO


You hijacker!  This is a flat-bar roady'ish thread! Take your swoopy loopy bars to your own thread haha!


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*Ooops!*

:blush: Sorry, thought I was helping the cause... drops or flats.. I think a lot of us are looking for similar frames.

Also noticed the Steelwool Tweed. Single speed, *STEEL*, disc ready, nice paint job, 
About $580 US w/o shipping

Uh-oh maybe I will be 'splainin' a new frame to the wife real soon:eekster:


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> :blush: Sorry, thought I was helping the cause... drops or flats.. I think a lot of us are looking for similar frames.
> 
> Also noticed the Steelwool Tweed. Single speed, *STEEL*, disc ready, nice paint job,
> About $580 US w/o shipping
> ...


Teasing mostly. The only real differences for me with drops are a top tube length deficiency and seat tube length excess. I'm a MTB'er at heart, and like "compact" frame styles, long and sloping top tubes and long seatposts.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Rivendell's newest model would be a good option. The top tube has more slope than their previous models so you could size up for the longer top tube and still have good standover.

http://www.rivbike.com//#product=50-700

I'm a big fan of their products. Great bikes.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

something like this?
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=445185

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=397082


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*Any News?*

Bulldog, did you order the Roadrat? The more I research this frame the more I like it.
One day with some 25's you could just ride with some roadie boys ( single speed of course), switch to 35mm for some 'cross fun and then throw down some Bonty 1.8's and ride some real off road! Of course I could just do the same on different bikes ( Curtlo roadie, Soma Cross and Titus Motolite) but it wouldn't be the same

Looking forward to hearing some more stories about this multi purpose bike.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> Bulldog, did you order the Roadrat? The more I research this frame the more I like it.
> One day with some 25's you could just ride with some roadie boys ( single speed of course), switch to 35mm for some 'cross fun and then throw down some Bonty 1.8's and ride some real off road! Of course I could just do the same on different bikes ( Curtlo roadie, Soma Cross and Titus Motolite) but it wouldn't be the same
> 
> Looking forward to hearing some more stories about this multi purpose bike.


I'm waiting for a shipping quote from a UK Cotic dealer. It's the bike I want for sure. Just been working out the spec. My current build is very road so I'm considering a second wheelset with some wider rims and more spokes to run CX or 1.75's if I want to do some light offroad riding.


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*Me too!*

let us know best shipping deal. I am going to order the drop bar version when I get back from vacation in Feb 
The Roadrat seems to fit my bill exactly, 'cross frame, single speed, disc mounts, sloping top tube..... perfecto.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*yes the Planet X Kaffenback*

or on-one ill Pompino pretty great bikes and it can be configured a number of ways.


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*checked those out too*

The kaffenback is a very nice bike but it has very limited clearance, maybe 32mm in back I've heard.
Il Pompino looks nice too but it seems a little flashy for a commuter/townie type bike ( and my Curtlo roadie is same color) and I don't have the :blush: cajones to ride a bike with a name that translates to jlowbob in ingles'. 

The Surly cross check is certainly the next best choice at this price level.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*The Soma Double Cross*

Is a real nice frame with compact geometry. It can take 38cs with fenders too and be had for the same price as the cross check.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> let us know best shipping deal. I am going to order the drop bar version when I get back from vacation in Feb
> The Roadrat seems to fit my bill exactly, 'cross frame, single speed, disc mounts, sloping top tube..... perfecto.


Cotic quoted 95gpb for shipping, the UK shop quoted 195gbp!!!!! Yikes. Really hard for me to pay even 1/3 of a quality frame/fork price in shipping. It's a mental block, because even with shipping I think it's a fair price for what they offer. Debating, debating, searching for better shipping as well...


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## Zendog13 (Nov 6, 2007)

Might want to check out the the Kona Sutra as well. Pop a flat bar and your good. Gives you the choice of running discs or canti/vbrakes should you wish..


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*Still drooling over Roadrat*

I have a Soma, set up with triple and STI ( soon to be Campy 10 speed w/ 8 speed ShimaNo casette) that I use for bike tours and hilly mixed terrain rides. I want a single speed only bike for around town. Looking at all the pics on Flickr and found this really nice one... have to get one of these....:crazy:


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> I have a Soma, set up with triple and STI ( soon to be Campy 10 speed w/ 8 speed ShimaNo casette) that I use for bike tours and hilly mixed terrain rides. I want a single speed only bike for around town. Looking at all the pics on Flickr and found this really nice one... have to get one of these....:crazy:


Quite simply....That's hot! Thanks for the pic.


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## TheDon (Oct 18, 2005)

I think Genesis in the UK make the perfect bike you are asking for. Their Day series are amazingand are cromo steel frames too.

I guess you are in the US, so shipping might push the price too high.

Sorry for the big picture, only one i could find on their site


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

TheDon said:


> I think Genesis in the UK make the perfect bike you are asking for. Their Day series are amazingand are cromo steel frames too.
> 
> I guess you are in the US, so shipping might push the price too high.
> 
> Sorry for the big picture, only one i could find on their site


Very nice looking, but very "square". When I say square I mean TT and ST about equal which usually works well for drop bars or those who really want to sit up with flat/riser bars. So far Cotic FTW!


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*not bad!*

That looks nice but too old school road geometry for me ...... I need compact geometry for my long torso. The Roadrat has near perfect geometry for my body. I'd like a little slacker seat tube, but I can deal with it by using a set back seatpost. The large drop bar version is very close to my custom Curtlo road bike as far measurements go.

The Surly Cross Check would work too... but the Roadrat has more of a MTB look. I find that once you get close on geometry, you have to like the way it looks when you see it. The Roadrat does that for me.:yesnod:


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> I have a Soma, set up with triple and STI ( soon to be Campy 10 speed w/ 8 speed ShimaNo casette) that I use for bike tours and hilly mixed terrain rides. I want a single speed only bike for around town. Looking at all the pics on Flickr and found this really nice one... have to get one of these....:crazy:


Can someone explain why the front brake caliper is mounted on the wrong side of the fork in this picture? Looks like it could sheer off under heavy braking 

Nice bike tho.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Andrewpalooza said:


> Can someone explain why the front brake caliper is mounted on the wrong side of the fork in this picture? Looks like it could sheer off under heavy braking
> 
> Nice bike tho.


Cotic says it actually drives the braking force INTO the dropouts, thus safer. Also, it does not interfere with racks or fenders that way.


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## sfuller (Jan 14, 2007)

Bulldog said:


> Cotic says it actually drives the braking force INTO the dropouts, thus safer. Also, it does not interfere with racks or fenders that way.


I *might* by the rack/fender interference argument. If it was so much better with regards to driving the braking force into the dropouts, I'm surprised they don't set up the brakes that way on any of their other bikes.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

sfuller said:


> I *might* by the rack/fender interference argument. If it was so much better with regards to driving the braking force into the dropouts, I'm surprised they don't set up the brakes that way on any of their other bikes.


I'm with you. It's not like tabs behind the left fork leg fail or that discs push wheels out of dropouts anyways so it's really hard to say it's better, moreso different and offers the rack/fender mounts easier.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Bulldog said:


> This is perfect. Big road/CX tires or up to a 29x1.75 knobby, V-brake or disk, compact frame (not a "square" road/CX style), Road or mountain cranks/rings, racks/fenders. Whatever crazy ideas I could have in the future could be possible. The price ain't bad either, though overseas shipping sucks. And it's STEEL. I have gotten several email from Paul @ Cotic already, cool guy. Thanks to DBR18210 for that link!


Ordered my Cotic RoadRat today at 5am! :thumbsup: Been watching the conversion rates from US to GBP drop in my favor for the past couple weeks only to rise again lately. Oh well, still an incredible deal of a frame if it performs the way it looks. Paul @ Cotic is really easy to deal with and very responsive to questions. Now the wait as the frame comes "across the pond". I need to buy just a few parts, but will post pics when built.


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*mee too!*



Bulldog said:


> Ordered my Cotic RoadRat today at 5am! :thumbsup: Been watching the conversion rates from US to GBP drop in my favor for the past couple weeks only to rise again lately. Oh well, still an incredible deal of a frame if it performs the way it looks. Paul @ Cotic is really easy to deal with and very responsive to questions. Now the wait as the frame comes "across the pond". I need to buy just a few parts, but will post pics when built.


I just ordered mine yesterday from Swinnerton Cycles over there too. 
I went drop bar version, in a 56 TT. I was going to start with canti's and some Bontrager Select road wheels with some 35mm tires. 
The exchange rate dropped in January while I was off in the Yucatan and then climbed back up but it has dropped again since yesterday. Swinnerton's website listed only 40 pound's to ship internationally... I'll see what shows up on my Visa statement.
and we'll see who's shows up 1st.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> I just ordered mine yesterday from Swinnerton Cycles over there too.
> I went drop bar version, in a 56 TT. I was going to start with canti's and some Bontrager Select road wheels with some 35mm tires.
> The exchange rate dropped in January while I was off in the Yucatan and then climbed back up but it has dropped again since yesterday. Swinnerton's website listed only 40 pound's to ship internationally... I'll see what shows up on my Visa statement.
> and we'll see who's shows up 1st.


Nice find of the shipping deal. I paid 95 pounds direct from Cotic, which seems like a relative deal compared to the 195 pounds quoted by a dealer over there. I also picked up a crankset/bb while I was at it. Paul's prices on components are super cheap but I resisted more parts so I could get exactly what I want stateside.


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## Singular (Sep 21, 2005)

Cotics are really nice bikes, very well designed and produced. The disc mount on the front of the right fork leg is so that braking forces the axle into the dropout rather than out of it. I think you'll find that none of the other Cotics come with a fork - thus the comment "I'm surprised they don't set up the brakes that way on any of their other bikes" is redundant. 

For your wants, I don't see why any suitable 29er with some slick tyres on it wouldn't suit? 

Sam


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Singular said:


> Cotics are really nice bikes, very well designed and produced. The disc mount on the front of the right fork leg is so that braking forces the axle into the dropout rather than out of it. I think you'll find that none of the other Cotics come with a fork - thus the comment "I'm surprised they don't set up the brakes that way on any of their other bikes" is redundant.
> 
> For your wants, I don't see why any suitable 29er with some slick tyres on it wouldn't suit?
> 
> Sam


A 29er would cover the bases and then some, sure. Probably a bit excessive but would surely get the job done.

The Roadrat is built to my purpose - a mountain biker's road bike, and loaded with options. The price is great too. Plus here in the US and specifically where I live I doubt I'll ever see another one, let alone meet someone that has even heard of Cotic.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

Bulldog said:


> Ordered my Cotic RoadRat today at 5am! :thumbsup: Been watching the conversion rates from US to GBP drop in my favor for the past couple weeks only to rise again lately. Oh well, still an incredible deal of a frame if it performs the way it looks. Paul @ Cotic is really easy to deal with and very responsive to questions. Now the wait as the frame comes "across the pond". I need to buy just a few parts, but will post pics when built.


What was in England on Friday is now in Wisconsin and "out for delivery" today! Crazy.

*edit* The RoadRat has landed! Waiting on two boxes of parts to build it up but will post pics when done.


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## nepbug (Sep 3, 2004)

Crank'nStein said:


> ...
> On One Il Pompino $250 now if 57 fits othewise? A littly flashy
> ...


Where the heck is this deal at? Link? Crossing my fingers that it is still available!


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*From On-One*



nepbug said:


> Where the heck is this deal at? Link? Crossing my fingers that it is still available!


Direct from On-one... with shipping to US at todays excellent exchange rate it works out to about $320 including shipping. This is the 135mm rear spacing frame... no fork


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## Crank'nStein (Jan 23, 2006)

*mine arrived today*



Bulldog said:


> What was in England on Friday is now in Wisconsin and "out for delivery" today! Crazy.
> 
> *edit* The RoadRat has landed! Waiting on two boxes of parts to build it up but will post pics when done.


My bargain shipping of 40 pounds arrived with a COD of $42 USD for Customs fee . I think thats works out to about 65 pounds total shipping.

Frame looks very nicely made and finished. I am going with Canti's at 1st with some Nokian 35mm tires. Drop bars and cane creek levers. Will be my 1st Single speed bike. Think I'll start with 34 x 17 and see how that works.


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

Bulldog said:


> Daddy likes! That is the spirit of what I'm looking for, exactly!


I have a RoadRat. Bought in Nov 08. I got a Large - Short, which is 'designed' to be a drop bar version. I'm running it single speed with mini-vbrakes at the moment, but will be converting to gears for summer.

It isnt like a normal road bike so far as handling, it feels slower handling, but very stable. I am going to be taking it to France (I'm living in the UK at the moment) to ride some of the Tour de France climbs in the Alps thiis summer, so we'll see how it goes there (I think it'll fare better than me).

They arent that light, but I dont know of any other smilarly priced steel bikes that do everything like it that are light. In the UK there is Genesis, part of Ridgeback (I think they're both UK only brands), and Genesis have some nice steel bikes like the roadrat too.


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## Bulldog (Jan 13, 2004)

stillkeen said:


> I have a RoadRat. Bought in Nov 08. I got a Large - Short, which is 'designed' to be a drop bar version. I'm running it single speed with mini-vbrakes at the moment, but will be converting to gears for summer.
> 
> It isnt like a normal road bike so far as handling, it feels slower handling, but very stable. I am going to be taking it to France (I'm living in the UK at the moment) to ride some of the Tour de France climbs in the Alps thiis summer, so we'll see how it goes there (I think it'll fare better than me).
> 
> They arent that light, but I dont know of any other smilarly priced steel bikes that do everything like it that are light. In the UK there is Genesis, part of Ridgeback (I think they're both UK only brands), and Genesis have some nice steel bikes like the roadrat too.


When you say "designed" for drop bars like that does it mean you put flat bars on the short version? Any particular reasoning? Any pics?


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

Bulldog said:


> When you say "designed" for drop bars like that does it mean you put flat bars on the short version? Any particular reasoning? Any pics?


Cotic first released the flat bar version. The top tube is longer than you'd find on a similary sized roadbike. I guess they found people were wanting to run drop bars, but didnt want to buy a full frame size smaller. So the drop bar models ('short') have shorter toptubes, but I believe the other dimensions are similar.

Now the shop I bought mine from said they pretty much treat them as having 6 sizes for either drop or flat, depending ... rather than just 3 for each.

The bike I test rode was actually a flat bar Medium - Long and a Flat Bar Large - Short. I guessed what the Large - short with drops would feel like, and I actually got it wrong. With 85mm reach bars and a 100mm stem, Id say its 15mm too long for me.

I hope that helps, I've just got back from a 23mile post-work ride on the bike.

Oh, just read your post again ... maybe the above isnt what you're after. Yes, I have drop bars on a short/drop bar version. In retrospec, I think possibly a Medium - Long with drops would be more suitable for someone my size.

I have pictures, but I dont have software to resize on my pc, so can't post them at the moment. I'll try to shrink them soon and upload.


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