# garmin colorado



## 3034 (Apr 12, 2006)

http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/...or-enthusiasts-new-perspective_423579_12.html

GEOMAN do you have any thoughts on using this while biking?


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Wow!*



3034 said:


> https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/industries/technology/article/garmins-coloradotm-series-gives-outdoor-enthusiasts-new-perspective_423579_12.html
> 
> GEOMAN do you have any thoughts on using this while biking?


(Xpost from Norcal thread)

Thanks for the heads up, I've been a few hours out of date. :thumbsup: See the Garmin info page on Colorado here, and Colorado 400t product page here.
A detailed hands-on review is here.

Those guys at Garmin just don't stop innovating. This Colorado is a super GPS unit. It's got everything I could think of ever wanting, and more.. (OK, it's missing the laser projection of the trail on the ground, but I can wait for that.)

For biking/hiking, I'd want the Colorado 400t model, listing for $640 which means I can probably get it for under $500. It can store shaded-relief and *satellite imagery mapping* and vibrant color 3-inch screen with high resolution, using state-of-the-art *3D elevation* perspective and *preloaded* U.S. topographic maps. The high resolution color screen now uses up the entire face of the large unit, providing much more size and resolution over my 60CSx, with the controls simplified to a wheel and two buttons on the top edge.

It also has a wireless interface, so I can beam the waypoints and routes of a ride to others with a wireless GPS before we start.

It has the optional Heart Rate and Cadence sensors of the Edge series, and the Wherigo software for my family's geocaching, with software for web downloads and paperless caching.

It also runs off AA batteries that can be replaced on the trail as they die, one of my few remaining gripes about the Edge, with it's Li battery limitation.

This Colorado GPS definitely has my nerd juices going. I now know what to get for my birthday. 

*Colorado 400t ($639 list)*
















Screen Images: 3D perspective, scroll on Map Screen, Compass screen


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## bsaunder (Feb 25, 2004)

ok - that got me fully nerded out, can't wait to have some show up in some stores so I can play with one a bit. Think I'll be puting my GPSmap 60 csx purchase off for a bit....


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## Thelonius71 (Jul 23, 2007)

Are they sure the 400t works with the CAD and HR? I see them listed in the accessories tab but not mentioned in the text or specs. The only reason I would be skeptical really is if true where does that leave the edge 705? Kind of twisting in the wind I would think.


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## hdtvrand (Sep 25, 2007)

Thelonius71 said:


> Are they sure the 400t works with the CAD and HR? I see them listed in the accessories tab but not mentioned in the text or specs. The only reason I would be skeptical really is if true where does that leave the edge 705? Kind of twisting in the wind I would think.


From the page linked above:

"Weighing only 7.3 ounces with 15 hours of life from two AA batteries, the Colorado is the perfect companion for any outing with its electronic compass, barometric altimeter and photo viewer. The SD card slot is ideal for loading additional MapSource detail. *The Colorado also displays air temperature as well as data from an optional heart-rate monitor and/or speed and cadence sensor*."


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## Thelonius71 (Jul 23, 2007)

hdtvrand said:


> From the page linked above:
> 
> "Weighing only 7.3 ounces with 15 hours of life from two AA batteries, the Colorado is the perfect companion for any outing with its electronic compass, barometric altimeter and photo viewer. The SD card slot is ideal for loading additional MapSource detail. *The Colorado also displays air temperature as well as data from an optional heart-rate monitor and/or speed and cadence sensor*."


I stand corrected. I wonder what the future holds for the edge products then.


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## SSINGA (Dec 23, 2003)

wow! anyone want to buy a slightly used 60csx? LOL!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

Thelonius71 said:


> I stand corrected. I wonder what the future holds for the edge products then.


The Edge will be smaller, and about $100 less, and have most of the features. Garmin makes a variety of GPS units with minor variations to suit different people's needs and pocket books. My suspicion is that the Edge will continue to sell just fine. For instance, some bikers just want a smaller unobtrusive unit. Others may be afraid of the antennae breaking.

But yes, who'd stop at the Edge 705 if they could get the Colorado. The Colorado 400t will have a much bigger display with 2.5X the pixels, built in topo and satellite maps with 3D perspective, wireless links, among other features.

FWIW, I've had my 60CSx, which is even bigger with a more protruding antennae, on my bars for a year now and it's doing well. A friend's 60CSx flew off a couple times on endo's and the antennae eventually broke. I use the hand strap and tie it to the bar as a safety bungee cord, but it's never broke loose on me yet. Could it be that my bar ends hit first?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I just stumbled across this receiver today based on a post in a mailing list I subscribe to. This thing is getting a lot of buzz. 

Unbelievably, the Colorado is actually SMALLER than my 76CSx. Also worth noting is that the Colorado uses an SD card rather than a microSD card...which means overall capacity is now up to 4 gigs. One drawback is that battery life is not as long. That big screen probably eats it up, and I would imagine that using wireless accessories creates further power demand.

This really does look like the ONE GPS you can buy that will satisfy any outdoor recreation need you have. Works for geocaching, cycling, boating, hiking, hunting, etc. With field-replaceable batteries, battery life is less an issue. This thing is awful cool and I'm pretty geeked about it. 

I knew Garmin would offer something pretty cool to one-up Delorme.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

Interesting device, thats for sure.
I think you need to read the product descriptions closely - the imagery is only available on the high end unit ($$$$$$), and "worldwide basemaps with imagery"? A worldwide basemap is usually not that detailed, so neither can the imagery? Otherwise you would have to carry a separate external hard disk to store all the data!!!! I'll be at CES next week - I'm stopping by the Garmin booth!!!!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The one thing that they've kinda glossed over so far is the imagery feature of this thing. I'm curious how they plan on delivering that. The ability to plug in a 4gig SD card suggests you'll be able to download a lot of it...but will users have to pay a per-download fee, a single access fee, or what? I'll bet that the Garmin folks haven't quite figured that part out entirely yet.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> The one thing that they've kinda glossed over so far is the imagery feature of this thing. I'm curious how they plan on delivering that. The ability to plug in a 4gig SD card suggests you'll be able to download a lot of it...but will users have to pay a per-download fee, a single access fee, or what? I'll bet that the Garmin folks haven't quite figured that part out entirely yet.


It appears to me that the Topo and images are included in ROM, with which ones depending on the model.

From this hands-on review mentioned in my post above, it appears that the satellite images are only included in the 400i (Inland Lakes) and 400c (Coastal) models, where not as much land needs to be shown. The 400t (topo) model that we're most likely to want has only has DEM (Digital Elevation Model) of the world, and Topo maps of just the USA. The Topo maps are well under 1 GB for the US and easily stored in ROM. The street maps of the whole US including POI is about 2 GB and can fit on a cheap SD card.

From the screen shots, it appears that the topo map contours are the same coarse 150' height resolution of the Garmin Topo maps. That is, the embedded Topo maps look to be the same as you'd buy, but in ROM now. The DEM or some other software allows the Topo to be plotted in 3D, however, using the "Other" screen.

In any case, the ability of the Colorado 400 to handle images indicates at some point you might be able to use satellite images on an SD card with the 400t. But I don't see any mention of that now.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Wow! Technology does it again! You have to pay the price to keep up with its pace. One has to toil like a workhorse to pay for the luxury of keeping abreast with such innovation & all... 

Now, am torn b/w 705 & 400T!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Thanks Big Larry for all the info. Good job!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

3034 said:


> https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets...or-enthusiasts-new-perspective_423579_12.html
> 
> GEOMAN do you have any thoughts on using this while biking?


I've used handhelds on my bar for a few years now. They are always more obtrusive than, say, the Edge varieties. I find I use my Edge about 90% of the time and either a Vista HCx or 60CSx 10% of the time. Much of that is due to the size and weight factors... Add that the Edge is easier to use while in motion (i.e. a top mounted buttons, etc.) and I think the Edge 705 will be the favorite for cyclists.

Here's my bar setup when using both units (NOTE: Edge 305 and Vista HCx)...










The 400t weighs 7.3oz while the Edge 705 is 3.5oz. The Edge is designed to be bar or stem mounted making the mount inherently more secure than an accessory mount, IMHO. The 400t is 2.4 x 5.5 x 1.4 inches in size whereas the Edge 705 is 2 x 4.3 x 1 inches. Size and weight are important factors for cyclists... I believe the Edge will be more secure on rough terrain with little chance for "battery bounce", etc.

Anyway, I think there will be a place for both the Edge series and the Colorado handheld series depending on your needs but I predict most cyclists will opt for the Edge 705. We've pre-sold a bunch of them already.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

I want the Colorado 400t with a stem mount like the Edge series! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Like GeoMan, I split 90-95% / 5-10% with a 305 / 60CSx. 

I'd love to have the Colorado with HRM (essential) / cadence (cross bike) and replaceable batteries (essential) on long rides / multi day trips. All the functionality I want in one unit. My 305 in over a year old and will need batteries and or use of a power extender nono: in wet weather) soon.

One device, less weight and cost than GeoMan's pictured setup, yummy! 

I am not a weight weenie. Yet. Fifteen more pounds added to the 45 I have lost and I might be.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

slocaus said:


> I want the Colorado 400t with a stem mount like the Edge series! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
> 
> Like GeoMan, I split 90-95% / 5-10% with a 305 / 60CSx.
> 
> ...


Wait!

Everybody needs one of each!

LOL!


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## hdtvrand (Sep 25, 2007)

For those who can't wait, REI has the 400t exclusively until 2/11.

Garmin Colorado 400t GPS

Anyone looking to sell their "outdated" edge 305?


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Interesting!

Garmin's still not reporting "Available Now" on the 400t site. I wonder if the 2/11 means a "non-exclusive" release date? The national warehouses aren't so sure - one just updated their ETA for the 400t to May, 2008 but that could just be a guess on their part. Seems like the 400t is just about ready to hit the streets.

REI's making a nice fat margin at $599. If you are intent on being an earlier adopter but can wait until Feb 12, you might end up saving some shekels. Food for thought.

Can't wait for this product. It's going to be a good one. 

If anyone buys one from REI under this exclusive, please post your first impressions. We're anxious to hear more about it first-hand!


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

GEOMAN said:


> REI's making a nice fat margin at $599. If you are intent on being an earlier adopter but can wait until Feb 12, you might end up saving some shekels. Food for thought.


Not sure if I understand your comment.

You saying that you think that the price will be lower than $600 when it comes out? The Gamin website has it retailing for $640.

I think REI's price is good for something that is brand spanking new and not even available yet.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

MountainCycle89 said:


> Not sure if I understand your comment.
> 
> You saying that you think that the price will be lower than $600 when it comes out? The Gamin website has it retailing for $640.
> 
> I think REI's price is good for something that is brand spanking new and not even available yet.




Let us know your first impressions. We're all anxious to hear about one in detail.


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Hum  just take the laptop along with why don't you? :???: I mean I love having my data from a ride AFTER THE RIDE, but I don't want to be staring at images and such while actually riding. Sometimes I like to know the current elevation, speed I'm doing and distance, but there's no need for a full blown colour LCD with all that stuff, just distracts from the ride :skep:



BigLarry said:


> ..................................The Colorado 400t will have a much bigger display with 2.5X the pixels, built in topo and satellite maps with 3D perspective, wireless links, among other features. .........................


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

GEOMAN said:


> Let us know your first impressions. We're all anxious to hear about one in detail.


I didn't say I was going to order it. Just asking why you think the price is high.

Actually, after finding out I have to pay almost $50 in tax, I'm not getting from it them. LOL.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

One example - Garmin Edge 305.

Garmin Suggested Retail Price: $ 379.15 with HRM or cadence / speed, (one sensor, not both).
REI price on Garmin Edge 305 Deluxe Wireless Bike Computer, $399.00 (both HRM and cadence / speed)
GeoMan price Garmin Edge 305 Bundle (Heart Rate + Cadence/Speed Sensor) $267.00

He will not toot his own horn, but I will. I am a gadget nut (full blown techno-weenie), and I have never found a better price on Garmin GPS than GeoMan. :thumbsup:


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

slocaus said:


> One example - Garmin Edge 305.
> 
> Garmin Suggested Retail Price: $ 379.15 with HRM or cadence / speed, (one sensor, not both).
> REI price on Garmin Edge 305 Deluxe Wireless Bike Computer, $399.00 (both HRM and cadence / speed)
> ...


And I've never found a better customer! LOL! You practically keep us in business, Slo!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

LyNx said:


> Hum  just take the laptop along with why don't you? :???: I mean I love having my data from a ride AFTER THE RIDE, but I don't want to be staring at images and such while actually riding. Sometimes I like to know the current elevation, speed I'm doing and distance, but there's no need for a full blown colour LCD with all that stuff, just distracts from the ride :skep:


Easy for you to say! I've been to Barbados and I'd have to say it would be rather difficult to get lost there! 

The 400t is more of a hybrid - able to cross the boundaries of hiking and biking but I doubt it will affect the market for the Edge and Forerunners much, IMHO. Your point is well taken.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

LyNx said:


> Hum  just take the laptop along with why don't you? :???: I mean I love having my data from a ride AFTER THE RIDE, but I don't want to be staring at images and such while actually riding. Sometimes I like to know the current elevation, speed I'm doing and distance, but there's no need for a full blown colour LCD with all that stuff, just distracts from the ride :skep:


Oh, come on...that's just silly. This GPS is for people who might buy an Edge for biking, a 76 CSx for boating, and a Vista HCx for hiking and geocaching but can't afford three expensive models. Instead, they can buy one gps that can do everything. It has a couple limitations for any given single use, but it's got the ability to function well as a bike fitness computer, a mapping/navigational GPS, a paddling fitness computer, and it allows geocachers to use a single device to go paperless instead of printing cache pages or carrying a GPS AND a PDA to carry that information.

Just because you don't need or want the features this GPS has doesn't mean there aren't people who do. Personally, if I hadn't bought a 76CSx a year ago, I'd be considering this one. As it is, the GPS I have will do what I need for a couple more years I imagine. For people like you, Garmin will STILL be making the Edge series models, and even a couple with improved mapping ability.

Personally I like having the ability to use the GPS to check my actual location on the trail. The ability to see which drainage or ridgeline I'm on at any given moment is a nice feature. It allows me the ability to give a REAL estimate of where we are to others in the party. Gone are the days of, "It's just over the next hill" at the top of every hill for miles. I'm not going to stare at it the whole time I'm riding, and I doubt anyone else will, either. They might try, but realize quickly it doesn't work that way. Gotta stop to check out the GPS screen.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

LyNx said:


> Hum  just take the laptop along with why don't you? :???: I mean I love having my data from a ride AFTER THE RIDE, but I don't want to be staring at images and such while actually riding. Sometimes I like to know the current elevation, speed I'm doing and distance, but there's no need for a full blown colour LCD with all that stuff, just distracts from the ride :skep:


You clearly point out why the smaller simpler Edge series will continue to sell as well as it has. I suspect most riders are like yourself and just want to get a record with a compact device and minimal display.

The larger mapping units like the 60CSx and Colorado are more for rides into uncharted territory where you'd like to get more information. I've found the map displays to be essential on many new epic rides I'm riding solo.

But to the extent I ride in parks I know well, I tend to not use the map page very much. I just keep the display on the odometer page and occasionally the compass to make sure I'm really going toward the next waypoint. (I indeed like to watch the trail and the scenery outdoors, which is the main reason I MTB.) My favorite technique with a GPS is to put in the route beforehand, and watch the distance to each waypoint count down on my odometer screen. It gives me small goals and helps me assure I'm going in the right direction. Most all of the daily use can be done fine with the Edge.

Bottom line, I'm just a techie and love gadgets. I have four GPS units now (each specific to biking, car navigation, geocache,...). I might occasionally find them useful for something too.  The Colorado isn't that big and the similar 60CSx has done just fine on the handlebars for a year now. The Colorado also has many other cross uses for hiking and geocaching as NateHawk points out. It finally has true paperless geocaching by downloading all the hints with the geocache waypoint!

And how'd you know I've take a laptop on mountain biking trips, like MB Oregon?  I find it quite useful for reading and posting on MTBR.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Just to tickle my fancy...*

Was so cracked up on the latest buzz about this gadget (not to forget I'm having a great time with CS3 here), so I made a screenshot... Just thought I'd share with you, guys! 

​*Don't be afraid! Just click on the image so you get to see what's the buzz is all about!​*


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## gregmoore (Jul 11, 2006)

Hey guys, I have been reading this thread for a few days and wanted to let you all know that the REI that I work at just got our shipment of these units in on Monday. So far we have all played around with it in the store and out in the parking lot, everyone is pretty impressed by it. Now I just have to convince my wife....


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## mbaulfinger (Aug 2, 2007)

Was wondering if anyone knows can the Colorado record and then download speed,cad,hr, etc like the edge? I just downloaded the manual form garmin's site and didn't see anything that would indicate that it allows this sort of thing. If I missed it and it does, could someone set me straight? If it did, that would make choosing between the 705 and the Colorado more problematic...If someone had the deep pockets to get both, I wonder if the HR strap and speed sensor could talk to both the edge and the colorado?

Mark


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

Well from looking at the Garmin website, the Speed/Cadence sensor is the same but the Heart Rate monitors are different.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

mbaulfinger said:


> Was wondering if anyone knows can the Colorado record and then download speed,cad,hr, etc like the edge? I just downloaded the manual form garmin's site and didn't see anything that would indicate that it allows this sort of thing. If I missed it and it does, could someone set me straight? If it did, that would make choosing between the 705 and the Colorado more problematic...If someone had the deep pockets to get both, I wonder if the HR strap and speed sensor could talk to both the edge and the colorado?
> 
> Mark


Yes, re-read Larry's post #2.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Colorado Accessories*



MountainCycle89 said:


> Well from looking at the Garmin website, the Speed/Cadence sensor is the same but the Heart Rate monitors are different.


Agreed. Now that more details are posted on Garmin's Web site, it shows the Colorado 400t uses the following accessories:

Speed Cadence Sensor: GSC10 (Also listed as working with both Colorado and Edge)
Heart Rate Monitor: HRM1B (Also listed as working with Colorado and Forerunner 50 and 405, but not Edge)
Bike Mount: Here (Colorado only - uses tie wraps and looks like it could mount bars or stem. ???)
Hard Neoprene Case: Here (Colorado only, looks very nice and sturdy as well.)
Carabiner Mount: Here (This nice clip is included in the box)

So the speed and cadence sensors are compatible between Edge and Colorado. But the HRM of the Edge and Colorado are *not* compatable. From the Edge page, it shows the proper HRM is here and only works with the Edge and Forerunner 305.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Colorado Manual*



mbaulfinger said:


> Was wondering if anyone knows can the Colorado record and then download speed,cad,hr, etc like the edge? I just downloaded the manual form garmin's site and didn't see anything that would indicate that it allows this sort of thing. If I missed it and it does, could someone set me straight? If it did, that would make choosing between the 705 and the Colorado more problematic...If someone had the deep pockets to get both, I wonder if the HR strap and speed sensor could talk to both the edge and the colorado?
> 
> Mark


Thanks for the heads up on the Colorado manual being available on the Garmin Colorado product page.

Read page 33 under "Fitness Setup". The HRM and Bike Speed/Cadence sensor setup is discussed (in all of a half-page to keep the manual down to 42 pages). I suspect a data output for each parameter (HR, speed, cadence) would be available for the programmable fields that all Gamin GPS units have. But I can't see a list of those programmable parameters available in the appendix, like in other Garmin manuals.

Also, the "Image Viewer" on page 18 indicates it can display any image stored on the SD card, and zoom and pan on that image. But it doesn't indicate what image formats it can display, but many of the Nuvi's have a "JPEG picture viewer". I imagine this feature could be useful for lots of things on the trail... satellite views of the park and trails, personal maps, pictures of biking friends lost in the woods, emergency porn,.... . It would be neat if it could read the SD card from your camera as a bigger higher resolution display of your pictures for others.


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## ShreddedMeat (Oct 24, 2007)

Man this unit looks badass...


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

ShreddedMeat said:


> Man this unit looks badass...


Totally!


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## 028956blh (Apr 21, 2006)

*GPSNow.com*

Their price for the Colorado 400t is $529.95 (although is is in a "backordered" status). Check it out at: http://gpsnow.com/garmin_colorado_400t.htm

(click on the "add to card" icon to see the lower price)


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Big help from BigLarry's post...*

... for the itemization of things! Already given the particular accessories.

mbaulfinger for the manual! And everyone, for this informative & insightful thread!!!

Saves time & trouble of searching further. Kudos! :thumbsup:

Hmmm.. Let's see the link posted by 028956blh. Hold on!


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Follow-up*




BigLarry said:


> Bike Mount: Here (Colorado only - uses tie wraps and looks like it could mount bars or stem. ???)











One & the same, right? May I confirm that it's a bar mount as what's mentioned @gpsnow.com: 
GARMIN Bike Mount for Colorado series (010-11023-00) $9.99 - $8.95 [Add to Cart]
Mount your Colorado to your handlebar with this rail mount. Fits up to 1-inch diameter bar. Includes 4 nylon cable ties and plate with holes for 2 cable ties. Plate slides onto and snaps in place on Colorado mounting spin. For Colorado series. *After clicking the link, just scroll down*...

Happy weekend, everyone!

Be safe, guys!


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## gps_dr (Feb 27, 2007)

I picked up the Bike mount at REI on Sunday and my Colorado 400t arrived direct from Garmin last night.

The bike mount can be mounted on a horizontal or vertical rod.

I had them send me the heart rate monitor for it also.
Part 010-10997-00 (lists Forerunner 305, 50 & Edge 305 on the back).
When I try to enable it, it says searching... Will have to take it to work tomorrow to try a new 2032 battery. Will send an email to Garmin rep promptly if it doesn't work.


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## Surfas (Sep 13, 2005)

Pictures, pictures mounted on the bike to see how it fits !!!!

Pleeeeease.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Why is everybody talking about the 400 when the 300 seems exactly the same (apart from not having preloaded maps)? Are there some missing features? Will the 300 be compatible with HRM and cadence?

Edit : After looking at the accessories, it seems the 300 is compatible with HRM and cadence. Sweet!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Well, it sure does look like the units are identical function-wise. But the 400t does include the base maps already and if you don't have mapsource topo, why not? Also, it's not clear if you can get the same hillshading and 3d flythroughs on the 300 with your existing mapsource topo software. Maybe it will if you have topo 2008, but what about those of us still using the older version?


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

NateHawk said:


> Well, it sure does look like the units are identical function-wise. But the 400t does include the base maps already and if you don't have mapsource topo, why not? Also, it's not clear if you can get the same hillshading and 3d flythroughs on the 300 with your existing mapsource topo software. Maybe it will if you have topo 2008, but what about those of us still using the older version?


Actually my point is that (since I'm in Montreal) I've got absolutly no interest in having US topo maps. Ok sure I go to Kingdom Trails but it's not where most of riding takes place. I wonder if it will sell with canadian topo in Canada. If it's not the case (end even if it is i'll probably order from geoman) I got no point in paying 100$ for something I'll not use. I prefer paying for accesories of course...


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## bebrianbike (Feb 5, 2008)

I thought anyone looking into the Colorado might want to take a look at this: http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=184669

There are a lot of other discussions on the Groundspeak forums about the Colorado and the Triton GPS devices, most range from mediocre to terrible.

Check the forums, we geocache geeks know our GPS. 

-B


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Reasons to go for Colorado 300 over 400t*



PissedOffCil said:


> Why is everybody talking about the 400 when the 300 seems exactly the same (apart from not having preloaded maps)? Are there some missing features? Will the 300 be compatible with HRM and cadence?
> 
> Edit : After looking at the accessories, it seems the 300 is compatible with HRM and cadence. Sweet!


Like NateHawk, I want to see more details. But if you own Topo 2008 already or don't want the Topo maps, the Colorado 300 appears to have all the other features from what Nate and I can tell from the web site. As such, the Colorado 300 can indeed save you $100 over the 400t, the cost of the topo software anyway. See Garmin's comparison table here.

A *big* reason to get the 300 over the 400t, even if you want the Topo maps, is that the computer cannot currently read the preloaded topo maps from the Colorado 400t GPS. So, if like me, you do a lot of planning with the Topo maps on the computer before going out, you'll want to buy the Colorado 300 and Topo 2008 separately so you can use the topo maps on the computer with Garmin's MapSource software.

*Major Edit:* Here's a post I found from g-o-cashers that addresses this question thoroughly.

*G3.) So what should I buy, a 400t or a 300 with US Topo2008?*
Consider these two options A) and B)

A) 400t + 4GB SD card
B) 300 + 4GB SD card + entire US Topo2008 DVD installed on SD card

Differences:

A) would have 1GB of free internal memory and the entire 4GB SD card free (total free space 5GB) and B) would have 400MB of free internal memory but SD card would be full (total free space 400MB). Topo2008 installed from DVD takes up more space (>4GB) than the preloaded version (2.7GB) found on the 400t.
A) and B) would cost the same although with A) you have the flexibility of not buying the SD card and saving $30-$40 if you don't need more free space.
A) does not provide the topo maps on your PC, B) does. Therefore B) gives you the ability to trip plan in Mapsource and download only selected portions of Topo2008 to improve startup time (can save up to 13 seconds when you power on).
B) has more detailed DEM for parts of the world outside North and South America (ie. Europe/Asia/Africa/Australia). See this FAQ for more details.
It may not be possible to load all of US Topo2008 on option B) because the image would be larger than 4GB and it would require support for 6600+ map segments. It is not known if the Colorado supports 8GB SD cards and what the Colorado's map segment limit is (at least 4000 as tested so far).
It is possible Garmin might eventually provide a solution for 3) on the 400t, but there is also some work going on in the community to eliminate this as a variable, in which case I think it makes a lot more sense to buy a 400t, unless you already have a copy of Topo2008.

Garmin has confirmed that newer 400t's will only have 2.8GB of file system space of which only 180MB will be free space.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Colorado Issues*



bebrianbike said:


> I thought anyone looking into the Colorado might want to take a look at this: https://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=184669
> 
> There are a lot of other discussions on the Groundspeak forums about the Colorado and the Triton GPS devices, most range from mediocre to terrible.
> 
> ...


Thanks Brian for the link to Groundspeak. I'm a member but haven't been there for a while after seeing the same issues discussed repeatedly as new people come aboard.

See more on issues with the Colorado on this Groundspeak thread.
See more FAQ and current issues with Colorado software here.

I'm seeing a number of small complaints with the Colorado that are typical of a new device. You may want to wait a few months to get the Colorado to make sure they're addressed. Here's the major issues I saw right off on the Groundspeak forum:

1. Water proofing not really up to specification, the cover doesn't cover, as per Brian's link. (more below)
2. The use of the roller to select letters is much slower than the letter table selection screen used before. (I wondered about that.) People are hoping for a firmware upgrade to improve this interface. 
3. The Colorado 400t initially came with 3.7 GB of internal flash, with 1 GB available after the preloaded maps (versus only 384 MB available on the Colorado 300). However, a recent firmware change grabbed more memory, and now only allows 180 MB of the Colorado 400 internal memory to be available on the newer units. 
4. Lots of little bugs that cause the unit to crash, but are rapidly being fixed with firmware and software upgrades.
5. Usability issues with the new controls and software that are being addressed (like 450 clicks are needed now to delete a waypoint!).

Also see the other details on the forums linked above.

The waterproofing issue is one that bothers me most, as it will require a hardware design change to the case. Many are saying the Colorado units leak much more often than the older units. I suspect it's because Garmin went to a sliding cover rather than a screw down cover that presses down the O-ring on the eTrex and 60CSx. Also, the latch itself has an O-ring that covers the separate SD card slot, which often fails. This design is not robust, and can work sometimes, but sometimes not.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Magellan Triton*

That other company keeps giving Garmin a run on it's technology. As Brian said above, there's also a lot of buzz and complaints about the new Magellan Triton, as the two GPS giants do battle on their over-reaching technology advances.

For more information, see Magellan's site on the Triton 2000, the top of Triton line at $500. It can display National Geographic topo images, has a touch screen with slid-out stylus, and has 3-axis compass so you don't have to hold it exactly level for a good reading, and many other features. It also has interesting gimmicks of an LED flashlight, 2 MP camera, music player, and voice recorder.

For more independent evaluations, see the Triton Forum here.

For issues with the Triton, see the Groundspeak thread here. The issues with the Triton are even greater than the Colorado. For instance, Magellan doesn't have maps yet for use with the Triton 2000.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Complete turn off (for now)!!! LoL!


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

*Bleeding Edge Issues*



Onie said:


> Complete turn off (*for now*)!!! LoL!


The appropriate words are "for now". The GPS companies are innovating at warp speed, and every new GPS technology needs to get the bugs worked out. I saw the same course years ago with the Vista and the 60CSx. They were very buggy at first and it took months and many software revisions before all the bugs were worked out and the features worked nicely. But improvements will happen at a fast pace, especially at Garmin. And all of the software and firmware can be upgraded over the months.

That's why the waterproofing issue is what bothers me the most. It's one thing that can't be fixed with updates after my purchase. It needs a redesign or rework of the concept and a new case.


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## lmnop (Jan 10, 2005)

BigLarry said:


> The appropriate words are "for now". The GPS companies are innovating at warp speed, and every new GPS technology needs to get the bugs worked out.


So, let me get this straight. We (the general public) get to spend our $600 to be the guinea pigs or, in other terms, the R&D for these companies!!! These companies, in their fight for market share, are releasing substandard units with KNOWN glitches (come on, you think their testers didn't find and report on some if not all of these issues?) figuring that the general public will just bust out the credit card upon seeing a few 3D images up on the screen. And, they are right.

Imagine buying the latest HD tv, or better yet, any model from a big auto manufacturer with as many issues as being reported for either the Colorado or the Triton. Class action lawsuits would be filed and TV investigative reporters would be on scene.

No thanks...


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

lmnop said:


> So, let me get this straight. We (the general public) get to spend our $600 to be the guinea pigs or, in other terms, the R&D for these companies!!! These companies, in their fight for market share, are releasing substandard units with KNOWN glitches (come on, you think their testers didn't find and report on some if not all of these issues?) figuring that the general public will just bust out the credit card upon seeing a few 3D images up on the screen. And, they are right.
> 
> Imagine buying the latest HD tv, or better yet, any model from a big auto manufacturer with as many issues as being reported for either the Colorado or the Triton. Class action lawsuits would be filed and TV investigative reporters would be on scene.
> 
> No thanks...


Yeah that sucks. Unfortunatly I work in an indutry that often releases bugged software (video games) and I think it's a shame and a disgrace. The thing is people keep on buying our games so it becomes less of a concern to have bug free games released. Anyways I was not planning on buying the Colorado before a coupel of months so i'll check if the issues are fixed by then. I'll probably end up getting the 300 in the end but if it's released with Canadian topo in Canada I might consider the 400t. Even then I think Garmin is really taking profit for some public data. I don't if if it's the case in the US but in Canada all of the country's topo maps are of public domain and freely available on the web so I wonder why I would pay 100$ for Garmin to preload those on my GPS. To be honest I'd have absolutly no regrets ripping those maps off bittorrent!


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## bebrianbike (Feb 5, 2008)

*I think DeLorme was the right call...*

I gotta say, I am very glad that I got a DeLorme PN-20. I almost waited for the Triton, but the DeLorme software is the best...so I pulled the trigger. The bugs are all fixed, the topos are detailed and accurate and I can use aerial imagery. :thumbsup: 
Check this thread to see what I really think: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=379787
-B


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## bsaunder (Feb 25, 2004)

lmnop said:


> So, let me get this straight. We (the general public) get to spend our $600 to be the guinea pigs or, in other terms, the R&D for these companies!!! These companies, in their fight for market share, are releasing substandard units with KNOWN glitches (come on, you think their testers didn't find and report on some if not all of these issues?) figuring that the general public will just bust out the credit card upon seeing a few 3D images up on the screen. And, they are right.
> 
> Imagine buying the latest HD tv, or better yet, any model from a big auto manufacturer with as many issues as being reported for either the Colorado or the Triton. Class action lawsuits would be filed and TV investigative reporters would be on scene.
> 
> No thanks...


Actually that is exactly what the early HD TVs and most new model vehicles of years past were like - and no class action law suits were filed. If you want to be the first on your block to have something - its the price you pay. If you wait for the second rev of the unit or later, then the majority of the bugs will be worked out. It would be truly nice to have a near perfect product at launch; however the cost to do it is very large ( and many times may prohibit the product ever being produced) - so the trade off is made to get a product on the market early and deal with bugs found in the field that were not found in development. I don't agree with it from a quality perspective, but I can very easy see the business decisions behind it.

All that said - I demo'd a colorado for a long weekend (4days) and it did everything I wanted it to do and didn't encounter any bugs that I felt were show stoppers; a few annoyances that can be fixed by firmware updates, but that is all. I didn't test the water proofing, but any cover that slides across a feature intended to perform with a contact fit will degrade with every use, so I would question the design on that - however, I can also figure out how to water proof it myself so it still isn't a complete deal breaker for me.


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## Surfas (Sep 13, 2005)

Here mine from Portugal
Previously I had a Edge 205, but after 2 years I think I'll need a proper GPS, more complete that work for car and bike.
For now it work great, but only one ride with lot of rain and mud.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

man, I wish my 76CSx had a mounting bracket like that.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

NateHawk said:


> man, I wish my 76CSx had a mounting bracket like that.


I need to work harder at breaking my 60CSx so I can buy a colorado for that mount!


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Surfas said:


> Here mine from Portugal
> Previously I had a Edge 205, but after 2 years I think I'll need a proper GPS, more complete that work for car and bike.
> For now it work great, but only one ride with lot of rain and mud.


Maybe you can help me. I've been trying to know if they localize the topo maps when selling outside the US. Since you're in Portugal you might know...


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## Surfas (Sep 13, 2005)

What Topo maps ? The only topo maps for garmin in Europe are for UK.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Surfas said:


> What Topo maps ? The only topo maps for garmin in Europe are for UK.


Really? So I guess you bought the 300 model then?


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## Surfas (Sep 13, 2005)

Yes I bought the 300 because the 400 is only sold in US. 
The diference between them, is that 400 have the TOPO US and the 300 only the simple world map.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Surfas said:


> Yes I bought the 300 because the 400 is only sold in US.
> The diference between them, is that 400 have the TOPO US and the 300 only the simple world map.


Exactly why I asked in the first place. Being in Canada I am wondering if they'll ship with canadian topo maps here or US topo maps on the 400t model... Thanks for your time!


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Interesting, I was really looking hard at a 705, but the colorado is intriguing. Though the massive complaints on poor battery life, and leaking, and some missing features are annoying. I know I use the track back or reverse route feature a lot especially on out and back rides, which evidentially is not available on the colorado.

Has anyone actually hooked up their colorado with a speed/cadence sensor? My question is how much cycling functioning does it have, is it one of those things where all you are going to get is a real time readout of HR/speed/cadence or will there be a more complete cycling functionality as far as the data it records? Will it track cadence over time etc. and will it download that data to the garmin training center etc? 


Also has anyone actually downloaded satellite photo imagery to the unit? Is this something that is going to accept free georef'd imagines such as a geotiff etc. or is it going to be something proprietary that has to be paid for as a subscription etc? I see nothing of this in the manual, so I'm wondering if they allow you to view imagery using the picture viewer, but not actually route or navigate using a referenced satellite photo as the basemap.

Another ? will the colorado recharge when hooked up to USB?

Will it let us store routes/tracks/waypoints to the SD card?


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

From what I've been hearing on ground source I don't think the colorado is going to replace the edge for cyclists. From what I'm reading over there all you really get is a real time readout of speed/cadence/HR, no averages, no max, no min/max HR etc. While I don't need to race against a digital partner, I do want to be able to graphically review my cycling data including HR/Speed/Cadence/Alt/etc. and get info on averages/max/min for my rides. 

Garmin could probably add some of that to the unit, but in reality it would not make sense as they'd be hurting the sales of the new edge unit if they give it too much cycling functionality. I've learned in the past that if a garmin unit does not have a function you cannot count on garmin to add it later, they might or they might not and there's no way to tell what they will or won't add.

I also have little hope for satellite imagery, just due to the size of those images. A georeferenced tiff wtih decent resolution is a huge file, a NAIP 1m color imagry of say just slickrock trail in moab would be well over 1 gig in size, so even with a 4-8gig card you are not getting a lot of satellite image data on it. You'd get a lot more landsat7 data on it, but with 30m resolution per pixel it's not going to be very useful in navigation.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

ToddM said:


> From what I've been hearing on ground source I don't think the colorado is going to replace the edge for cyclists. From what I'm reading over there all you really get is a real time readout of speed/cadence/HR, no averages, no max, no min/max HR etc. While I don't need to race against a digital partner, I do want to be able to graphically review my cycling data including HR/Speed/Cadence/Alt/etc. and get info on averages/max/min for my rides.


Hum... I really was considering the Colorado since the 300 with HRM and cadence comes in cheaper than the Edge 705 but if you can't review your data after your ride it takes out some features that I expect to have at that price point. There's no real interest in having realtime cadence/HRM only. Now I've got to start shopping again... :madman:

Edit : It does save the info. Check this out : http://forums.groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=185974


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

I hear ya there, it could be they will add that functionality later, also it sounds as of current their training software and garmin connect do not support the colorado with HR/bike data.....it may and probably will in the future, but again I've played that game with garmin before and been disappointed. I've put an email to garmin asking them exactly what data fields are available and such, but if the past is any indicator the response will be vague and unhelpful. I'm half tempted to wait till REI gets the 705 in and go buy the colorado and 705 compare them and see what they actually have for features, since garmin's manual and web pages simply do not give enough information on these areas and garmin's tech support answers are never detailed enough to be of help. 

I had hoped I could replace my etrex and polar I use on the bike, and also my 76 I use in the field and in the truck with the colorado and a speed/hrm setup, but I want more than just real time speed/hr/cadence info. I want to be able to load that data into a graphical setup where I can review my ride with HR/Cadence/Speed/Elev/ and get climbing, average and min/max info, HR zones with alarms is also a big feature for those than want to use the device for training. Of course if they did all that there would not be much need for the edge either.


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

ToddM said:


> I hear ya there, it could be they will add that functionality later, also it sounds as of current their training software and garmin connect do not support the colorado with HR/bike data.....it may and probably will in the future, but again I've played that game with garmin before and been disappointed.


I suppose that other 3rd party software can handle that in the worst case. I mean GPX files are just plain XML files after all! All I want is to be able to follow a track, record my parameters and then review them after the ride... Most of the time I'll just never watch the unit during my rides, as long as I know the way...


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Yeah, two of my other big complaints about what I've read about the colorado so far is that you cannot recharge it through the USB setup. It would be nice if that were possible and to me that is an advantage of the Edge assuming the 705 has that feature as the 305 did. Garmin has probably stayed away from this option due to the AA issue. If someone puts in alkaline batteries and the charge cycle starts that would be a real issue. 

Another place where garmin has dropped the ball for years now is not allowing users to store waypoints/routes/tracks not only to, but retrieve them from the memory card. Lets do away with this silly 50 route/20 track limit you can get a 16 gig SD memory card now, lets allow people to store and retrieve data from them.


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Well I have a litte more info as I spent about 30min playing with a colorado at REI. 

First it appears that you get the normal trip functions in the fitness profile, so the gps at least records ave. speed, max speed, time moving, time stopped, descent and climbing info and averages.

However it appears for the HR and Cadence you only get current values, no averages or max HR or cadence, no cadence zone or alarm, no HR zone, or time in zone etc.

Now how/if all that data ends up being recorded and then put into a graphical view if any I have no idea. That probably won't be known for awhile since garmin connect is not going to support the colorado till evidentially May at best.

So with the extra data, I could almost deal with not having average/max HR data and ave/max cadence data. 

I found a much larger drawback though, the backlight is absolutely unacceptable. Even with brand new batteries inside you need to have the backlight at 80%+ outside in failing light, it was pretty well unreadable even on full backlight, in the dark it's fine, I did not get a chance to view it in full sunlight, but unless it's really impressive without any backlight it will be pretty well unuseable in full sun too. This poses a few problems, first runtime if you are always running the backlight at 80%+ you can forget 15 hours. I'm going to stop in there and check it out in full sun, but unless it's really impressive without the backlight I doubt I'll even consider it. I've also read that as the batteries get lower the unit well not allow full backlight, and anything short of about 50% backlight is useless unless you are in total darkness.

Part of it is the fact that garmin has used dark colors, you have all dark backgrounds, and then dark button color and dark text on top of that, you can change the backgrounds and button colors but again all dark colors so there is poor contrast in addition to a poor backlight. I've read you can upload new backgrounds so maybe a white or light gray background would help but I can't say. On some pages like the trip info the txt is white and it works fine, but many button txt or heading info is dark gray and it's really hard to read short without a lot of backlight on. Also color contrast does not seem very good, the colors they do use are not vibrant, so it makes it even worse because as you turn up the backlight they wash out more if you get to a light colored page. I found no adjustment for contrast either. I'd say the backlight even on full bright is way less bright than a 76csx and compared to the etrex it's not even funny, the etrex one click from full dim is as bright as the colorado on full bright.

Overall, not impressed, I was tempted to buy one and order a speed sensor and HRM to test it out knowing that REI would take it back if I didn't like it, but frankly I was not impressed enough with the unit in the store I didn't see much point.
The shaded relief is nice the 3D view is not impressive at all. This is probably due to the poor resolution of the DEM data from garmin being ~ 1:100,000 . It would probably be better with 1:24000 data. Also the unit takes forever to start up compared to an etrex or 76/60. This is probably due to dealing with the entire topo 2008 set at startup.

They didn't have any HR or bike sensors so I never got to test that, but I think I'll be waiting for the Edge and see how that goes.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ToddM said:


> Well I have a litte more info as I spent about 30min playing with a colorado at REI.
> 
> First it appears that you get the normal trip functions in the fitness profile, so the gps at least records ave. speed, max speed, time moving, time stopped, descent and climbing info and averages.
> 
> ...


Nice analysis. One point on DEM data, however. DEM data, as with any digital raster data, is rated based on its pixels. The freely available DEM data for my state comes in 10 meter and 30 meter varieties. So, 10m per pixel or 30m per pixel. This is pretty standard stuff. When you're looking at large areas, that resolution is great. Zoomed in on a small extent, though, and it's going to look awful. The power of DEM data, however, is that GIS software can extrapolate from it various things like hillshade, slope analysis, and contours.


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## CrustyOne (Oct 29, 2007)

Surfas said:


> What Topo maps ? The only topo maps for garmin in Europe are for UK.


I have Garmin topo maps for...
Gerrmany....Nederlands....Austria.....France...Slovakia


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## rockymtnway (Nov 14, 2004)

*I want it all*

Thanks for this thread, everyone. I only just started following it in the last couple days and was moving toward buying an Edge 705 prior to this thread. Now I'm on hold until something new comes out.

I started off with a Polar S720i in 2001 (well, actually, had the predecessor back in 1997, but can't even recall the model number of that unit). I've also had an e-trex Vista and used an on-line data website called Endless Pursuit that really was the predecessor to Motionbased back in 2003 or 2004. I bought my Edge 305 in early 2006 and loved MotionBased. However, since going to the Edge, I've missed several things about my Polar that I'd really like to have back.

First off, the Polar software was a dream to work with. Time in zone graphs for the day, week, month & year, graphs for mileage, altitude, exertion... Polar made self-coaching a breeze. Then there's little things like being able to click on a point on a graph on the Polar software and see your cadance, elevation, and HR at that moment. There's the recording of temperature every time you touched the lap timer. And then there's that little thing called 99.5% reliability in HRM data. I've been so underwhelmed with the Garmin chest strap that I've almost binned the entire thing and gone back to my Polar a number of times. It dries out way too easily compared to the Polar straps, it loses signal when you're around any meaningful interference (powerlines mostly), and just isn't half as comfortable.

So when I see Garmin launch the 705, which adds cycling features like the power meter, added memory via an SD card, and maps, I'm intrigued, as then I don't have to bring both my Vista and my Edge on epic rides that beg for GPS tools. Then I see the Colorado and get pulled in it's direction with temperature, 3D mapping and a battery situation that might actually allow me to do a 24 hour race without jerry-rigged chargers taped to my stem. That's when I stop and think about what I really want. I want it all.

I want a device that does everything that both of them do, but the option of using a rechargable Li-ion battery or AAs or a larger li-ion. I want a power, I want SD cards, I want data recording, I want 24 hour-plus battery life, I want great software, I want infrared or better yet, blue-tooth data capability, I want temperature, I want cool graphics, I want 99.5% reliability with my HRM data, and I'm willing to wait. If Polar is the first one to the finish line, then I'm going back to Polar. If Garmin does it first, then they can keep my business, but they aren't getting it until there's a significant improvement over what I already have.


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Yep I have a 720i that I still use with a etrex when I need gps and it looks like I'll be staying with the combo for awhile. I know exactly what you mean about the polar software it is a great tracking software you get weekly and monthly totals, super graphs, easy to use, it makes it very easy to track and view your progress. The garmin software is not there yet, not even close, it may be down the road, esp. since I think I read garmin is going to meld connect into motion based or something like that so they may have some impressive software down the road. It would be nice though not to have to view my cycling data in my polar software then go look at the gps data in garmin's software.

To me the colorado has it's issues, but its the first run of it's type....I doubt it will ever have serious cycling features because that's why they make the edge 705. The edge 705 is ok, but again it may have issues as well, the runtime issue that the 305 has and the lack of a replaceable/spare battery option is a deal killer for me. If you really wanted as much gps as you can get with minimal cadence and HR the colorado is it, if you want as much cycling computer as you can get with mapping gps the edge is it.....however as you said either seems to have a great gps setup and a great cycling setup. If garmin were to address the colorado issues, and add a bit more cycling features, and set it up with their fitness software then they'd be close. I can't see garmin doing that simply because then no one would buy the $600 edge. I'm interested to check out the edge when it makes it to market, but the colorado at least as it sits now is not the unit I'm looking for. It may be down the road with more updates and software functionality, but until it is a feature, I won't buy something in hopes that garmin implements it down the road.


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

I got my Colorado today. 

I have a Nuvi so I figured this would be a nice addition for hiking/biking.

The battery life so far on NiMH is not so great. I am going to put it through a few cycles to get an average. So far it only lasted an hour with the backlight on high and on all the time. Then it went to a powersave mode I guess. It remained dimmed and is about 3 hours additional, so far. It warns you that it is running low and that tones and the backlight will be further limited.

I like the configurable Trip Computer. There are 6 small fields and 2 larger fields for data to be displayed. There are 43 parameters you can choose from, including:
Air or Water Temperature, Trip Odometer, Distance/Time to Destination, Directional Arrow, Altimeter, HRM, Cadence, Vertical Speed, Sunrise/Sunset, Off Course, ect.

The 3D mode doesn't look too detailed, kinda like a low end first person shooter type game. Not too impressive.

The scrolling through the upper/lower case letters, numbers and extra characters to name a waypoint is tedious.

It mounts on the stem nicely except that it hits my headset. I have it rigged that zip ties pull the mount away from the headset now. I have an FSA 110mm stem.

The HRM seems to work well.

The Speed/Cadence sensor was a waste for me because it doesn't mount properly on my Mountain Cycle San Andreas. Oh well, live and learn. 

I probably won't get a chance to try this out anytime soon on the trails but I will be messing around with the battery life and settings.


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## rockymtnway (Nov 14, 2004)

Glad to see I'm not the only one that would like to see Polar do something more with GPS (almost seems easier than getting Garmin to do more with cycling/fitness). They're getting fairly close as they're using GPS data now in a couple units, but it doesn't record anything but mileage, speed and altitude. I like the fact that with the current Polar, you have the watch-sized display that still uses a battery that lasts a year, then a separate GPS unit that takes AA batteries. That way, if your GPS batteries die, you still have your HRM and other data captured. If they used blue-tooth to transmit the data from the GPS receiver, you could have something similar to a Palm Pilot for your data collection, map displays, and computer. The versatility there would be phenomenal, with the capacity to have satellite views, topo maps, and high graphics displays (thinking google maps if you had a Palm-like device with a cell phone data carrying capability like my Blackberry 8800). Obviously, you could also just have a Palm-like device that could use Polar software and have its own integrated GPS. 

The future looks very promising as GPS gets integrated into more and more products, the price of memory drops, and displays improve.


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

Hmmmmm, I just updated the firmware and I am able to leave the backlight on full time again. 

The battery meter now says 50%. Before the update, the battery was down to 25%. There was a fix for use with NiMH batteries. I guess it works. LOL.


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## gps_dr (Feb 27, 2007)

Below is picture of my current setup with the Colorado.
I couldn't mount it on my stem, because it is a steeper angle,
so I had to place it on bar next to 76csx.
*Placing it on bar allows varying it's angle better there anyway!*








The glare on screen isn't seen when I wear my polarized sunglasses.
Loaded the new firmware update after my ride.
The hillshading seemed to show more detail than contour lines.
Still playing with finding proper scale, 3D tilt angle etc for best viewing.


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## BigLarry (Jul 30, 2004)

gps_dr said:


> Below is picture of my current setup with the Colorado...


With your 3 GPS's on the bars, I'm sort of jealous and shocked at the same time. :shocked:

I can now honestly tell my friends I'm not top nerd anymore.


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

A buddy of mine could not resist the colorado today, he doesn't bike and will probably never use the thing, but I weaseled it away from him for the weekend and I am going to get some more play time with it. Specifically I'm interested in runtime. I also got a chance to play with it outside today in bright but overcast conditions.....it was okay to see with no backlight, but not nearly as easy as my etrex or 76csx. I didn't try polarized glasses that may help with glare off the screen. I think a lot of it is just a lack of contrast. In the etrex/76 you have black text on a light background, so in bright light even without backlight it looks pretty good. I'm also going to experiment with different backgrounds, some light colors and see if that helps out the colorado, however I think maybe black might be best, as the text on the colorado is white, so maybe black would provide more contrast. I'll also check it out in full sun and see how it is. Seeing the text fields is not so bad, but the map is where it really suffers without the backlight on.

Inside the unit flat out needs the backlight on, and up to at least 50% unless it's really dark in the room, same for use in a vehicle, there's no way you could use it windshield mounted without the backlight on 75% or better unless it was at night. In fact I would say that in most cases if you need the backlight on, you need it set at least to 50% and usually I end up with it at 75% of max. So I'm going to test runtime with the backlight on at 75%. If it won't run at least 10 hours on a 2650mah nimh AA's at that setting I don't think there's anyway I'd get one. My etrex will run nearly 20 hours at the same backlight level. I know it has some cool features but if it won't run 10 hours with a useable level of backlight, It's not for me. Especially since I'd bet that once you hook up a HRM and Speed sensor to it, it will probably drain more power monitoring those. I'm running a current test at 75% now, and I don't think it will make it anywhere near 10 hours, I'm at about 5 hours right now and it's only showing 1 bar of battery left. That's with no tones, and not really using the unit, just letting it run.


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

I had the same battery life when I got it yesterday. The firmware upgrade makes a bit of difference. After the update and at 100% backlight, it is running at almost 8 hours with two bars left on a 2900mah NiMH.


Update:
Well a little over 9 hours before it shut off.


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

I did the firmware update, and I'm getting 8 hours with 75% backlight on 2650 duracells. So it's pretty close with what you were getting. I'm interested to see how long the unit then runs on no backlight after it forces it off, by the look of things not long. Interesting thing is even after the unit says there isn't enough power to run the backlight, its still slightly backlit. I'd say about 20-30% it's just enough that you can notice it as you turn the dial to full off. 

As a comparison my legend HCx and 76csx are still showing all 4 bars after 9 hours with their backlight set at what visually looks like the Colorado at 75% (which is two up from no backlight on the legend, and about 40% backlight on the 76csx. My guess is garmin did not give us a brighter screen because they knew even with the dimmer screen it has now the runtime is very poor compared to previous units.

In order for me to consider it for purchase it is going to have to be very impressive in full sunlight with no backlight. Out hiking....I'm sure most of the time I could have the backlight off or at it to a 30 second turn off, and just have it on when I was using it and it would no doubt get longer life. 

8 hours is less than I hoped for sure, however if the edge 705 goes the way of the 305 it's still better battery life and with the option to put in another set of batteries. Also it's still unknown how much extra battery life monitoring the HRM and Cadence sensors will eat up if any.


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Another good point that MountainCycle brought up that I would not have noticed until I read his post, is that there's no way the speed/cadence sensor would mount on my ventana either. I suppose I could mount it to get cadence but it would never get rear wheel speed and cadence just due to the rear swingarm design. This may not be that big of a deal though, as I understand it the garmin units default to the GPS speed unless it has poor/no signal then it uses the speed sensor. I'd be willing to bet this is also how garmin "auto calibrates" the speed sensor. Either way I don't need cadence on my mtnbike that bad, so I'd only need one of them for my road bike.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

gps_dr said:


> Below is picture of my current setup with the Colorado.
> I couldn't mount it on my stem, because it is a steeper angle,
> so I had to place it on bar next to 76csx.
> *Placing it on bar allows varying it's angle better there anyway!*
> ...


Holy Moly, Batman!

Which is your favorite?


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## gps_dr (Feb 27, 2007)

GEOMAN said:


> Holy Moly, Batman!
> 
> Which is your favorite?


My workhorse is the 76csx.
It has all of the features I need on the trail.
The others are useful.

The list price on the 3 of them is almost double the price of my bike.
Then again, I paid money for the bike & worked for the GPS units.


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## gps_dr (Feb 27, 2007)

BigLarry said:


> With your 3 GPS's on the bars, I'm sort of jealous and shocked at the same time. :shocked:
> 
> I can now honestly tell my friends I'm not top nerd anymore.


I've been running two GPS units while maping trails for a couple years now.
Gives me a backup and something to "average".


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

I had one run of the same set of 4 batteries that I am rotating last 13 hours 45 minutes. The backlight dimmed to the lowest setting at about 12 hours.

I the Colorado just ramdomly shut down today after 5 hours of use. I turned it back on and it still had 3 bars of battery life left.

I tested the automotive mode and it's nothing like my Nuvi. I don't know, maybe I am doing something wrong but even in Automotive mode, the GPS is not tracking on the roads, it is about 30 feet off to the right.

I don't know how it's tracking the elevation but I don't think it is doing it by satellite. When I go into a tunnel or building, it can still tell me the elevation. It even tells me that it lost the satellite connection.

The trip computer in Automotive mode is not configurable like it is in Recreation mode.

*DOH!!! *I just thought about it, the Automotive mode will probably work better if I had City Navigator installed. LOL.


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## MountainCycle89 (Nov 7, 2007)

Small little observation.

The Total Time is not kept track of when the GPS function is off or not available.

I was using the Total Time to gauge the battery life. I noticed it wasn't counting when I was at my office building. When I got home, I turned the Colorado on to make sure this wasn't some sort of bug. It was fine. I turned off the GPS function and the timer stopped.

Between my four batteries, I'm getting around 12 hours average with the Backlight Limiting on.


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## Chris130 (Mar 28, 2005)

MountainCycle89 said:


> *DOH!!! *I just thought about it, the Automotive mode will probably work better if I had City Navigator installed. LOL.


I have CityNav on SD card and it works like a champ, I was very impressed with the auto mode then... I'm still learning about all of the things possible with the Colorado, but I am very pleased with the unit thus far. I learn more about it everytime I play with it (manual, schmanual  ) Plus, I'm very happy with the Mac functionality that Garmin is starting to roll out. Sorry, not much of value to add to the thread here - just checking in as a happy camper! :thumbsup:

Cheers, Chris


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

I do have to say the automotive mode is a big improvement over the 60/76/etrex style of nav in the car. I have not played with it using city nav but even with the built in topo 2008 it's pretty darn nice as far as seeing what is upcoming and a better feel for the street layout


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Another thing I've found is the .gpx track files on the colorado have cadence/temp/HRM data with the track points, but you cannot access any of that data using mapsource, and if you download the tracks to mapsource then export them, they will not have HRM/Cadence data.

So if you want to port your fitness files to a non-garmin utility you have to take them off the unit itself. This was frustrating me for awhile as I was wondering why my .gpx files had no cadence/hr/temp data with them.

It also seems that none of the programs I've tried to export the .gpx file to with HR/Cadence data in it can read that data.

Motionbased, Ascent, and Sportracks all cannot see any of the HR or Cadence info off of the colorado gpx file. It could be they just need to add compatability for the unit, but you would think garmin would use the same programing for the output .gpx as for the edge series so why it won't see the HR/Cadence data thats in the .gpx file I have no idea.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

ToddM said:


> Another thing I've found is the .gpx track files on the colorado have cadence/temp/HRM data with the track points, but you cannot access any of that data using mapsource, and if you download the tracks to mapsource then export them, they will not have HRM/Cadence data.
> 
> So if you want to port your fitness files to a non-garmin utility you have to take them off the unit itself. This was frustrating me for awhile as I was wondering why my .gpx files had no cadence/hr/temp data with them.
> 
> ...


Have you tried Garmin Training Center? It is free from here. I know that it does not state compatibility with Colorado, but might preserve the Cad/HRM data?

I use a 305, and use TC, SportTracks, TopoFusion, and MapSource. Only TC and SportTracks shows cad/HRM data, but they download direct from the 305, and from my 60CSx, which has no HRM/cad data of course. Maybe Garmin TC will do what you want?


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Doesn't seem to. If I plug the colorado in, it says "no fitness device detected" and I don't see any way to import a .gpx file into training center.

I tried sporttracks as well, it shows the data, but no HR/Cadence data, same with Ascent.

It will probably be addressed down the road, but it would be nice that since they are toting the HR and Cadence compatibility of the unit that you could actually use their software to access the data.


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

The response from garmin on this is that it will be available when they merge motionbase with connect, however I was told not to expect that to happen until late May at best. Until then real time HR and Cadence is all that will be available to colorado users. 

That is unless sportrack, or ascent etc. start providing support for it sooner.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

ToddM said:


> The response from garmin on this is that it will be available when they merge motionbase with connect, however I was told not to expect that to happen until late May at best. Until then real time HR and Cadence is all that will be available to colorado users.
> 
> That is unless sportrack, or ascent etc. start providing support for it sooner.


I'd contact the SportTracks developer. Has been very responsive to a couple requests I made in the past.


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