# Finally, a functional superlight disc brake rotor



## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

I have always seen posts on this and other forums promising light rotors. Some are gimmicky. Some sacrifice performance or safety in the name of gram-shaving. Others come with all kinds of restrictions. Most just never actually become an available product.

We are about to launch Scrub Components, www.scrubcomponents.com. I would like to invite everyone to check out our site, and am hoping to use this thread as a place where you can ask questions directly to the manufacturers of Scrub rotors, as well as give us feedback about what you like, don't like, would like to see, etc. Here is a brief bullet list about these rotors:


Target weight (160mm) - 57 grams
Transfers heat 7 times more efficiently than steel
Matrix material is 5 times stronger than aluminum alloy, with almost zero weight penalty
Great wear resistance - Our material does not require a coating to provide a durable and high performance friction surface, so there is nothing to wear off!
Precision machined braking surface to ensure flatness
Made in the USA

Thanks everyone for checking out the post, and let's hear those questions and comments!

Chris
Scrub Components
www.scrubcomponents.com


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Looks interresting, i'll agree with you on these light weight rotors that give up perforance and safety for loss of weight its not right.

Will anyone get prototypes to try out and test?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Interesting. Metal Matrix Aluminum brake rotors. 
Are they made from casting DURALCAN into sheet and then water jet cutting them?

What run out can you guarantee with these rotors?


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## onespeedfreak (Sep 30, 2006)

my only question is will the rotors 'cup' with use like the stans rotors do?


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

singltraker said:


> I have always seen posts on this and other forums promising light rotors. Some are gimmicky. Some sacrifice performance or safety in the name of gram-shaving. Others come with all kinds of restrictions. Most just never actually become an available product.
> 
> www.scrubcomponents.com


neat, what is the target weight of the 180 and will it be compatible with Magura Marta?


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

heres the first" what people want to see".

exactly what Boone used to make, and now you cant get. those things are in demand like none other.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,
Thanks for all the questions and comments, this is exactly what we were hoping for with this thread! I'll try and run through all the above questions as best as I can:

Tiffster: We have been testing our rotors for about a year now, so we aren't handing out any prototypes at the moment. Thanks for the interest though, and of course we plan to introduce more products as things get rolling!

Cheers!: While the technology and "MMC" label are similar, our material is not Duralcan exactly. Of course I am not going to give all of our secrets away yet! I don't have any run-out specs right in front of me, but we've been testing for quite a while without any problems. The rotors are really flat to begin with, but we've gone an extra step to machine the braking surface to ensure that they run flat and straight.

onespeedfreak: I'm assuming when you say "cupping," the braking surface wears unevenly in the middle? At the risk of sounding repetitive here, we've done a lot of testing on different bikes, different riding styles, and different climates. We have been very excited about the durability of our rotors over the past year. We have not seen any out of the ordinary problems, and feel that they wear very similarly to stainless. Of course this is assuming they are broken in properly and the correct pads are used (organic/resin pads only).

Davide: I should have a weight to within a gram or so in the next week for the 180mm disc. I'll be sure to post it here when I have a more reliable figure. The 160mm rotors come in at right about 57g, and as a safe assumption the 180mm discs will be about half of an "average" stainless steel rotor.

Hand/of/Midas: What product from Boone are you talking about exactly? Forgive me if that is an ignorant question...  

Again, thanks everyone for checking us out, we are very excited to get input from the folks at this forum! Happy Trails,

Chris


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## [email protected] (Jun 1, 2004)

simply can you use these with avid or hayes in stock brake form??
thnx


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Of course I gotta ask. . .Any plans for a centerlock version?


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## elephant (Mar 21, 2006)

When can I buy a pair?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

This thread is worthless without pictures. Cough it up and show us the goods. :thumbsup:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Does anyone remember the canadian company that was making metal matrix aluminum bicycle disc brake rotors? I think they were selling them a while back (3 to 4 years ago?)

http://www.gokinetix.com/home.html

Anyone know why these guys are no longer in business?

I wasn't into cycling back then. But I was into formula SAE and we ran metal matrix aluminum brake rotors for our race car. We were sponsored by Alcan at the time and we had them cast us brake rotors from Duralcan and we waterjet cut them.

If I remember correctly there are different types of metal matrix aluminums, where hte reinforcement can be continuous and particulate. How much ceramic that gets added to the alloy also changes it's final properties. Typically you run soft organic pads. Only two production cars used metal matrix aluminum brake rotors that come to mind. One is the Plymouth prowler and the series 1 Lotus Elise. For the formula SAE car we purchased plymouth prowler pads (sponsored by Chrysler at the time) and machined the pad to the same size as our wilwood pads for our wilwood calipers.

For experience I can tell you two things with Metal Matrix Aluminum brake rotors. 
1.) Typically the coefficient of friction is lower than steel. Meaning when you apply the brakes the intial bite or grab from the pads is low. Brake pressure needed to be somewhat higher than a metallic pad and steel rotor to achieve the same braking force.

2.) Thermal expansion is quite high and is a problem at high temperatures. The failure point of the rotors was at the mounting holes. Where in the rotor fails by creep at the pointing point and cracks.

In the end I guess if people are using Stan's Notube aluminum brake rotors with a ceramic coating without dieing than this should work no problems at all. Personally I think aluminum (even if it has a metal matrix) is the worse possible material to make brake rotors with.

edit: Here is an old thread talking about the Kinetix brakes and pads. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=13140&highlight=KINETIX


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*

as CHEERS! already summed it up quite well i just ask the question if anyone knows of a racecar, mororcycle or big manufacturer doing such "matrix"-rotors.

you have to look at motorsports racing to see what works and what doesn't and i don't think that people have been sleeping over the last coule of decades so that a small bike "company" can show up and tell them how it's done

"matrix" sounds oh-so cool....i don't like gimmicks regardless of their sophisticated names.
i remember Specialized had those Metal Matrix aluminium frames.M3...M4..M5...those things were such tanks and had no special numbers at all. but people would be like "oooohhhh,Matrix aluminium, awesome stuff"

we will see. i personally don't eat it.


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## bobbyOCR (Feb 11, 2007)

Is that because you don't sell it? Shut up, nino, if its light and it works hooray. They are expensive ($135 per rotor) so it will be a niche market even inside the market for rotors, and even then, some will take steel by choice. Give them a chance.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I think they are too expensive
just compare with stans, at $95

BUT great they will make it in 180mm

Do you have any plans to make them also in 203mm?

Then I would consider them for my light enduro bike

thanks


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

nino said:


> as CHEERS! already summed it up quite well i just ask the question if anyone knows of a racecar, mororcycle or big manufacturer doing such "matrix"-rotors.
> 
> you have to look at motorsports racing to see what works and what doesn't and i don't think that people have been sleeping over the last coule of decades so that a small bike "company" can show up and tell them how it's done
> 
> ...


HEY! Don't mock my M4 Stumpjumper hardtail. It's one of my favorite bikes that I ride all the time.

Btw since the coefficient of friction is so low with MMC rotors you can't/shouldn't run them in the wet. You can kiss braking performance goodbye in teh wet.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> HEY! Don't mock my M4 Stumpjumper hardtail. It's one of my favorite bikes that I ride all the time.
> 
> Btw since the coefficient of friction is so low with MMC rotors you can't/shouldn't run them in the wet. You can kiss braking performance goodbye in teh wet.


My wife still has a A2 (or was it A3?) "Metal Matrix" Stumpj and i was also raving about my M4 S-Works BACK THEN...but that was about 7 years ago and those frames weighed 1500g when Scott offered the Scandium Team Issue at 1150g with better stiffness and much better handling anyway....not that the S-works was bad, not at all. i loved it until i rode the Scott the 1st time....the Scott just raised the bar

ahh--the good old times:
http://light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=94

http://light-bikes.com/bikegallery/BikeListing.asp?id=125

and with v-brakes i don't care about any wondermatrix rotors anyway


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## dmcgoy (Apr 16, 2006)

Cheers! said:


> HEY! Don't mock my M4 Stumpjumper hardtail. It's one of my favorite bikes that I ride all the time.
> 
> Btw since the coefficient of friction is so low with MMC rotors you can't/shouldn't run them in the wet. You can kiss braking performance goodbye in teh wet.


Really? So there goes one of the main reasons to use disc over cantilever brakes.....


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,

Looks like we had a busy and at times heated evening! As usual, I will try and go through and answer any questions along the way.

[email protected]: There is nothing abnormal about the dimensions of our rotor. While I'm not going to get myself in trouble with a blanket statement about every brake available, we have tested the prototypes in most of the common brakesets with no clearance or compatibility issues. The only requirement at this time is that you use an organic or resin brake pad, as the metallic types will destroy your rotor in a hurry.

sonyisdope: We are definitely planning to include a centerlock version, but probably not until the 6-bolt versions gain some interest among mountain bikers. The more people who email or post demanding a centerlock version, the more quickly they will become a reality! Also, STS asked about 203mm rotors, and they fall in the same boat. We would like to build some, but initially they are on the wish list until we get enough support and requests for them.

elephant: That's the spirit! We are expecting the first run of 160mm and 180mm discs to be available sometime in April. I will of course keep you all updated as we get closer.

Circlip: I was waiting for someone to ask for pics. I will not have the final product pics for a few weeks, but I will post a nice shot of one of our final prototypes for you. The design will be identical, the real thing will just be a bit more polished aesthetically. Let me know what you think!

Cheers!/nino: Finally we get to the strong opinions. I'm not going to get all defensive, as we welcome all feedback and expected some critics. It sounds like you guys have a little background about the material, and you are correct that there are MANY different formulas, methods of producing, and applications for MMC's. The whole point of a "composite" material at all is to have the ability to tweak the properties slightly for each application. For example, if there is too much SiC, the material becomes brittle. Different production methods also make some MMC's unsuitable for brake rotors.

We did not invent this stuff, and will not claim to have done so. The same product is used on sport bikes. You can get them as aftermarket bling for your Harley. Our engineer/machinist was recently asked to build some for a snowmobile manufacturer for their racing sleds. I also know that one of the big boys in mountain bike disc brakes was testing the material at the same time as we were, built prototypes, and determined that it was a great material for rotors. It has been shelved for the time being purely because they are too expensive for a large company to take a chance on. 

We have run these rotors in wet/muddy conditions. The drop in performance is not any different than a drop in performance using stainless equipment. Yes, in a lab the friction coefficient is slightly lower than stainless, mainly due to the requirement of organic pads. Once broken in properly, I think the difference is undetectable on the trail. I've been running a pair hard on my Epiphany for over a year and have not once been unable to stop quickly enough. 

Thanks everyone, keep it coming! We value everyone's input, and just hope that our fellow riders will give us a chance to prove that this is not a gimmick. Happy Trails,

Chris


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Why am I not surprised that nino is now bashing someone who might be moving in on his territory?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

I almost forgot, here are a few pics for you all to enjoy. As I said, the final product will be dolled up a bit, but the design is identical to these. How about some fierce discussion over what color they should be! Happy Trails,

Chris










This one is prior to the braking surfaces getting machined:


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Would you/could you make a centrelock version?

How do they hold up in gritty wet riding conditions like i ride in?


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Oh, please add a centerlock version. No one is making a good, light aftermarket centerlock rotor. If you make them, I can guarantee you will sell at least 2 rotors 

Also, I didn't really look at the website, but is there a 140mm version as well?


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

Hmm. I have to say it does look promising, but I would like to hear many more test ride reports.

As one of very few people in this world who have ever been willing to pay & commission Carbon-Ti custom rotors, the rotors I would be most interested in would be true ceramic rotors, the same as used in supercars & F1. I gave this a preliminary look, and to have some commissioned by an automotive supplier would be circa $5-8k for the pair, which is too much for me to pay. I'd be happy paying up to $2k for a pair of true ceramics, if someone could bring some to market.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Shimano owns the Centerlock patent, and they won't let anybody else make Centerlock rotors.


Ole.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

2k for some rotors?

The trouble with the centrelock (which i would LOVE) is its a shimano patent, to use it you would have to license it from Shimano - do you think there going to let that happen easily - no i dont think they will.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Making an MMC centerlock adapter however would be perfectly fine and in fact many centerlock to 6-bolt adapters already exist anyways.

As to ceramic/mmc rotors in the motorsports world, EVERY Ferrari model in 2008 will feature them as standard equipment. Porsche, Audi and VW also make extensive use of them. The fact that cheers was modifying MMC-compatible pads from one sponsor (intended for their OWN MMC rotors and brake systems) to work with MMC rotors from another sponsor which no doubt didn't make their MMC the same way and then says that because they didn't work well for their Formula SAE race car that they won't work well for anyone is just an apples and oranges comparison. Its the kind of absence of common sense / outright stupidity we'd expect in statements from Nino. Plymouth wouldn't be using MMC rotors on production cars if they had problems stopping when wet. They also wouldn't be using them if they were prone to structural failures. That could lead to accidents, fatalities, lawsuits and recalls. That's pretty common sense thinking there.


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## onespeedfreak (Sep 30, 2006)

i to would love a lightweight centerlock rotor option.

i could be wrong but i believe that any brake maker can make centerlock rotors (magura does as well). i think shimano only controls the patent on centerlock hub manufacturers.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

DeeEight said:


> Making an MMC centerlock adapter however would be perfectly fine and in fact many centerlock to 6-bolt adapters already exist anyways.
> 
> As to ceramic/mmc rotors in the motorsports world, EVERY Ferrari model in 2008 will feature them as standard equipment. Porsche, Audi and VW also make extensive use of them. The fact that cheers was modifying MMC-compatible pads from one sponsor (intended for their OWN MMC rotors and brake systems) to work with MMC rotors from another sponsor which no doubt didn't make their MMC the same way and then says that because they didn't work well for their Formula SAE race car that they won't work well for anyone is just an apples and oranges comparison. Its the kind of absence of common sense / outright stupidity we'd expect in statements from Nino. Plymouth wouldn't be using MMC rotors on production cars if they had problems stopping when wet. They also wouldn't be using them if they were prone to structural failures. That could lead to accidents, fatalities, lawsuits and recalls. That's pretty common sense thinking there.


That is an interesting post you have made. I find it quite amusing how a person who has no experience working with MMC and probably doesn't even hold an engineering degree is commenting as if he/she is an expert in the field of braking technology and design. Exactly how much knowledge and/or experience do you have designing braking systems? Please enlighten me, I'm curious to know and I'm sure many here are curious to know too. You keep popping into threads trying to pass your opinions off as facts.

Unfortunately your common sense is not very good at all. You are making the same argument I'm making without any facts to back up your claim with the only difference being you believe they work fine and I do not. Exactly what bearing does your point have when you say "EVERY Ferrari model in 2008 will feature them as standard equipment"? So what if Ferrari uses them on their cars? To use your own words comparing Ferraris and bicycles is really "just an apples and oranges comparison."

The only thing I can agree with you on your poorly constructed posting is that Chrysler did make MMC brake rotors work on the Plymouth prowler.

Do you know why it worked? Have you held a Prowler's brake rotors in your hands? Can you explain to me why they work? Do you understand why it was designed in that way and exactly what features allows them to work?

You can not copy a standard rotors dimensions and features and make it out of MMC aluminum and pretend it will work.

The design of the prowler's brake rotor is vastly different than what bicycle disc brake rotor is. The brake rotors we had designed for the formula SAE race car mimicked what a traditional 6 bolt flat disc brake for bicycles are, completely flat and secured to the hub via bolts. In our case we relied on the clamp force between the wheel and the hub with the wheel studs locating the disc brake rotor. This design does not work in elevated temperatures. You get cracking along the PCD of the mounting holes due to creep from thermal expansion. We had not understood what was happening until we had a failure. If you look at a Plymouth prowler's brake rotor design you can see a deep relief cut into the brake rotor just before the hat of the rotor. Without this relief the prowler's brake rotors will meet the same fate as what we have found. The Hat will crack. The relief is cut into the rotor to relieve stress due to the creep on the hat from thermal expansion of the rotor. No such relief was done on our FSAE race car, and none that I can see on the gokinetix brake rotors, and none I can see from the original poster's product.

Now let's talk about why Plymouth prowler brake pads worked and how we figured out they would work. You make it seem like all we did was order parts from one supplier and ordered another set of parts from another. You couldn't be more wrong.

Typical braking systems comprised of organic compound, semi-metallic, to ceramic based brake pads have a coefficient of friction of 0.20 to 0.68 between the pad and steel. We obtained said brake pads from a Plymouth prowler and tested the pads with the Duralcan rotors. We spun the disc up and varied the applied force until the disc stalled. By knowing the torque on the rotor that spun it, and the amount of applied force required to stall the disc we were able to calculate the coefficient of friction to be 0.43, quite acceptable for use in my opinion.

As to the wetness concern. The braking system needs to be designed to provide greater hydraulic pressure to exert greater normal force on the braking pad. In the wet conditions this greater normal force quickly increases temperature of the pads and rotor surfaces to remove the moisture. You standards Hayes, Avid, Hope calipers and master cylinders were not designed to provide this extra normal force. Hence why performance will drop quickly when you get the system wet.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

singltraker said:


> Hand/of/Midas: What product from Boone are you talking about exactly? Forgive me if that is an ignorant question...
> 
> Again, thanks everyone for checking us out, we are very excited to get input from the folks at this forum! Happy Trails,
> 
> Chris


the Boone Ti SS cassette cogs, and the TI SS chainrings that are one piece and take the place of the spider.

https://i8.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/c4/f6/1154_1.JPG


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

*La bicicletta e' la bicicletta!*



nino said:


> you have to look at motorsports racing to see what works and what doesn't and i don't think that people have been sleeping over the last coule of decades so that a small bike "company" can show up and tell them how it's done


No not really, motorsports applications and cycling application are a universe different. If you could just take motorsports applications and transfer them to bycicling we will all be riding carbon fiber disks. They are lighter (about half the weight), stronger, great braking surface but unfortunately with temperature operating ranges in the stratosphere ... that is 400C to 1200C ... in about 0.5 seconds :yikes:

as far as small company ... I think to remember you produce a MTB titanium cassette that is supposed to show Shimano (!) how it is done


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Then let it rip!*

The NoTubes rotors wouldn't do any good for my application, i.e. riding style & conditions... I'm in for a CL version to0! So, no more adapters needed! As promising as it looks like, this has to be another waiting game. LoL! Well, just hope they'd come up with it real quick!


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hello everyone,
Well another day of discussion, some of which seems to be getting a little nasty. I will hit on a few key points that I feel I should. We are glad to see that there is something happening on this thread though, thanks to all!

Centerlock: I have said that we would like to produce a Centerlock version. That being said, if we got past the "wish list" stage, we of course would look closely at our options legally (if any). I do not believe that using MMC to build the adapter would be of any benefit, except to make it more expensive than necessary. I'm glad everyone is chiming in though, and at least we're finding out that there is some interest when the time comes.

Kinetix: I have seen this site before, haven't heard much about the company or product. From the old thread that was pasted here, it looks like their unavailability has nothing to do with the rotor or material. We'll leave it at that. 

I'm not going to get into a heated battle about the material, and we are not naive enough to think that we're going to show up somewhere like MTBR and win everyone over without question. Let's face it, there will always be skeptics and critics, and that is OK.

Do I believe our product is perfect? No, of course not. If manufacturers waited around and only released perfect products, no progress would ever be made. We are quite aware of the benefits and drawbacks of such an exotic material. I also know that we have done our due diligence and designed a solid rotor which is super light, performs admirably under nearly all conditions, and is quite robust. We have addressed stress points and hotspots using Finite Element Analysis, and are finally comfortable releasing a product to let real mountain bikers decide for themselves. I continue to encourage all questions and comments!

Enough of all of that, what did everyone think of the design? I was hoping to get a couple "Hey those are cool" posts after uploading a few pics. What colors does everyone like for their bikes? We're still finalizing the look, so I'd love to hear what everyone thinks. 

Thanks again for making this an exciting thread, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## salval42 (Jul 13, 2006)

not true. Magura makes a centerlock rotor, ventidisc


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Cheers! said:


> That is an interesting post you have made. I find it quite amusing how a person who has no experience working with MMC and probably doesn't even hold an engineering degree is commenting as if he/she is an expert in the field of braking technology and design.


I've worked with MMC's thanks. I've been saying for a good ten years now that they're the way to go for bicycle disc brake rotors if not for the expense of manufacturing them.

SNIP YOUR RANTING AND RAVINGS.... I don't put up with them from nino, why would I put up with them from less credibility than he has. You are trying to translate the fact that you couldn't get them to work properly in your attempts at mix-matching rotors and pad as proof that NOBODY else can either (much as Nino will put down other's products which compete with his own). Well just because you were too stupid to adapt the technology properly for one application, doesn't mean everyone else will be for adapting them for other applications. I mentioned other auto makers because for THEIR specific applications, they made the stuff work properly and reliably. They're not marketing the things to be bolted onto Fords or Chevies though, or to use pads from their brakes with rotors made by someone else and put onto chassis of something else altogether. If you'd had even a mediocum of common sense you'd have gone with complete pads and rotors from ONE maker. Then again, if you'd had any common sense left you'd not have posted in this thread at all.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

singltraker said:


> Enough of all of that, what did everyone think of the design? I was hoping to get a couple "Hey those are cool" posts after uploading a few pics. What colors does everyone like for their bikes? We're still finalizing the look, so I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.


Those ARE cool. The shark fins that extend into the brake track looks really neat.

don't mind dee8, he just likes to argue on the internet, and knows enough to really get people going.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I like the design!!

for the color, I would choose GOLD

please post 180mm rotor weight when available
thanks


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

For me, a rotor is a rotor designwise, I don't really care about its look or colour. What I care about is the weight, heat dissipation, and the decceleration. Magura publishes its decceleration numbers with the stock rotors and systems, and if you would publish the comparison numbers of decceleration for the same system using your rotors, along with a thermal dissipation comparison, you would go a long way to win the WW crowd over.

Edit: I also look for companies that are willing & flexible enough to do one-off custom bespoke work. The above points are pretty much the mainstay of the high-dollar WW crowd. While some give some give more preference to aesthetics, the predominant focus is on the weight and the performance delta incurred by spending more on fancy parts. There have been plenty of companies who have promised the earth but turned out to have been pedalling junk / never arrived to market. We're all naturally wary of hype for things that there are no numbers/trusted rider reports for. If you would release your numbers or send your product to some test riders & bike review sites/journals, you'd find your welcome much more enthusiastic, I have to say.


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## onespeedfreak (Sep 30, 2006)

singltraker said:


> Hello everyone,
> 
> Enough of all of that, what did everyone think of the design? I was hoping to get a couple "Hey those are cool" posts after uploading a few pics. What colors does everyone like for their bikes? We're still finalizing the look, so I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.
> 
> Chris


i think as long as design works well, it looks good. as far as color, it's hard to beat black.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

$135 for rotors and pads? No thanks.


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## erringtonnc (Feb 16, 2008)

Chris,

Are you planning to sell the rotors individually so that we can run different sizes front and rear? 

Are you still on track for April availability?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,
A much more civilized day today, I'm glad to see that. Not a lot that I need to comment on today, but here it is:

Ardent: Thank you for a thoughtful post, I agree with many of the points that you have made. The reason I ask about the look and color is that while some may not care, personally if I was going to buy a high-end item I would want it to work great and look great as well. Please do not mistake our questions on this thread about the looks as a ploy to sell a garbage product with a fancy finish. We absolutely want form to follow function, and have stated on our website that our goal is to provide the best components money can buy. I just thought it would be fun to let other riders voice an opinion on how that component might look in the end.

Second, I am right there with you wishing that we had some reviews in all the top bike magazines. That would be fantastic! We are working on that, and hopefully you'll start seeing our name mentioned more and more. Besides the design work that has gone into building a sturdy product, we have had a lot of riders pushing them in different climates, on different bikes and with different riding styles for over a year. There is no arguing that this ride testing has not been terribly public up to this point. However, the responses from these riders is a large part of what we've used to tweak the design and finally feel confident to take the leap into production.

Finally, I have spent enough time on this and other forums, and I know there is always someone claiming they have found the holy grail, only to vanish back into cyberspace. We knew this would be a tough crowd to please, which is why I am here answering questions on this thread!

Thanks again everyone, I look forward to keeping this thread alive and encourage all comments and questions! Happy Trails,

Chris


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

erringtonnc said:


> Chris,
> 
> Are you planning to sell the rotors individually so that we can run different sizes front and rear?
> 
> Are you still on track for April availability?


Hey erringtonnc,
The rotors are going to be sold per wheel, so running a 160 and 180 will not be a problem. As of now we are still shooting for April, hopefully earlier than later! Thanks!

Chris


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## Ardent (Dec 18, 2006)

Well, you're certainly saying all the right words, and I'm to some extent preliminarially interested in your product. I'd like to wish you the best of luck with getting your designs to the final hurdle of mass manufacture, and I hope that you put what you're saying into action. If you want to talk & answer questions from a much larger dedicated community of WW guys (mostly roadies however), check out the weightweenies forums on Starbike. As one last question, do you actually have hard numbers, or if not, do you plan to obtain some?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone, 

Ardent: Thanks for the encouragement, we would like nothing more than to live up to the hype and even exceed it! I will keep everyone posted here as we get closer. It looks like we should still be on track to have rotors available sometime in early to mid-April. I will also post a reliable weight for the 180mm disc in the next few days. If anyone has any more questions or comments, I'd be happy to hear them. Thanks again, and happy trails!

Chris


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I like the look of these rotors, as far as color my vote would be blue,black, or gold.in that order



singltraker said:


> I almost forgot, here are a few pics for you all to enjoy. As I said, the final product will be dolled up a bit, but the design is identical to these. How about some fierce discussion over what color they should be! Happy Trails,
> 
> Chris
> 
> ...


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I want 160/140 set up please.


singltraker said:


> Hey everyone,
> 
> Ardent: Thanks for the encouragement, we would like nothing more than to live up to the hype and even exceed it! I will keep everyone posted here as we get closer. It looks like we should still be on track to have rotors available sometime in early to mid-April. I will also post a reliable weight for the 180mm disc in the next few days. If anyone has any more questions or comments, I'd be happy to hear them. Thanks again, and happy trails!
> 
> Chris


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Good luck with the endeavour, looks promising, pushing the limits is always fun! But waaaay to expensive for my blood. I am still using my good old Marta SL rotors and the Alligator are like $18 - $19, yes not as light but affordable, haven't tested the heat issues much with any rotors. Along the lines of the Titanium cassettes.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to chime in before the weekend arrives. It looks like there is only a couple things I can comment on:

The 140mm disc size in the same boat as the 203mm and Centerlock versions we've discussed here before. We are definitely interested in making them, and the more people who ask for them the quicker they will become a reality! For our initial "pilot" run, we will be offering a 160mm and 180mm option, but would like to continue adding if we get continued requests for other sizes.

I want to thank everyone again who has contributed to this thread. We are taking all praise and criticism and hoping to use it to provide a product that people want. I hope everyone has a great weekend, and we'll hopefully be back here next week! Happy Trails,

Chris


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

I'd buy them if they really work as advertised. I like the looks.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

any update in the 180mm info?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

STS: Thanks for staying on me about this, I will get a ballpark weight (within a gram or two) before the weekend and post it here. 

Chris


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## JustusA (Nov 9, 2007)

I would like a 140 centerlock version 
good luck guys!


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Yup - i'd LOVE 160 & 180mm centrelock ones  

Fingers crossed - hope it works out guys.


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

Any updates on when these will be available? I am ready to start riding....:thumbsup:


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,

Thank you so much for the continued interest in our rotors. We are scheduled to have our first batch of 160mm rotors available in the next few weeks. Very soon, the website will be updated so that they can be purchased directly through www.scrubcomponents.com. When that change is made, I will be sure to leave a message on this thread to let you guys know!

Also, I am still working on a weight for the 180mm, as we had a small setback for that size during manufacturing. As soon as we get a better handle on when those will finally be available, I will let everyone know. Thanks again, and feel free to keep those questions coming! Happy Trails,

Chris


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Neat! Hope you've got CL rotors coming up as well! 

Kudos!

...awaiting....


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

don't think they actually said they'd be making centerlock rotors...

though it would be cool if they did. Are you singltraker?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hello Everyone! 

I know this is taking a lot longer than many people hoped (including myself!) but I have a ballpark weight for the 180mm discs that I am comfortable sharing here. The finished product may be a bit off of this, but most likely lighter. The current target weights are as follows:

160mm Scrub Components rotor - 57 grams
180mm Scrub Components rotor - 75 grams

As far as availability, I'm happy to announce that we should have our first 160mm discs available for sale in 2-3 weeks. The website will be updated soon to start taking pre-orders, and I will let everyone here know when that change is made! I don't have a date quite yet for the availability of the 180mm discs, but we are pushing to get them done as quickly as possible. 

I know everyone continues to ask about Centerlock, and at this time it looks like the only option is an adapter. Hopefully we will be able to introduce our own, "weight conscious," adapter in the future! 

I'm still checking in often, so if anyone has any more comments or questions, we'd love to hear them. Thanks again, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## gratiflying (Sep 21, 2006)

if these thinks don't give up on performance, you'd be surprised how many 203mm rotors you'd sell to the DH crowd. they'd be 1/2 the weight of the lightest rotors out there


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## seb_dh (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah that's just what I'm thinking. If their coefficient is up there with steel and they don't shatter after 15 minutes of heavy braking on an alpine track I'll be after 2 x 200mm and 2 x 180mm from you! My Oro rotors are 177/136 respectively, and whilst I know the Alligator Windcutters save a bit there's not a massive amount in it.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

same here!

my vote for 203/180mm alu rotors

perfect for my light enduro mtb


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

That's sad to here about no centrelock version - are shimano Not allowing it? (im not sure how the patent on that one works?) 

I don't like using adapters for CL - i had a hassle using them!


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

Tiffster said:


> That's sad to here about no centrelock version - are shimano Not allowing it? (im not sure how the patent on that one works?)
> 
> I don't like using adapters for CL - i had a hassle using them!


it's just a matter of paying for the patent I suppose (magura makes CL rotors), but I suppose for a small component maker the patent use cost could be too much..


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Im not so sure - IIRC the hub patern is under patent but im not sure the rotors are..... They came out in 03 so the design is 5 years old already!


Someone needs to come out with a new method like centrelock (wink, wink) that uses a 6 hole system.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

I'm likin' the 160 at that weight. Magura charges like $75 for their 160 mm at 115 gr. So another $60 for another 57 gr of rotating weight savings seems reasonable.

I run 200 in the front, so nothing there for me yet.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

*Major website update!*

Hello Everyone,
I just wanted to thank everyone again for your interest in our rotors on this thread! I also wanted to announce here that we are now accepting pre-orders on our 160mm and 180mm rotors as well as our Ti hardware. I invite you to check out our website which has been updated this weekend.

As noted on the site, the first batch of 160mm discs and the Ti hardware will be available in approximately 2-3 weeks. The 180mm discs are still a bit farther out, probably in 4-6 weeks.

I am still checking in on this forum often, so please do not hesitate to ask any questions or leave comments here. Thanks again, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I just went to pre-order a 160mm rotor. Your shipping is a little steep. Large envelope flat rate Priority shipping is $4.60 from NY, NY 10005 to my address in Blaine, Wa 98230. Your product is already borderline too expensive. Please do not try and make more profit on the shipping.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> I just went to pre-order a 160mm rotor. Your shipping is a little steep. Large envelope flat rate Priority shipping is $4.60 from NY, NY 10005 to my address in Blaine, Wa 98230. Your product is already borderline too expensive. Please do not try and make more profit on the shipping.


BlownCivic: First, thanks for checking out our site and product. We do ship USPS priority (which starts at $4.60 in the continental US) because it seems to be the quickest, most inexpensive route for everyone. We do not, however, simply drop your expensive rotors and bolts into those free Flat Rate envelopes because they are quite flimsy and offer no protection in transit. Our rotors a packed a bit more thoroughly, so the shipping charge of $6.00 covers shipping, handling, and packaging materials. I ensure you that we are definitely not making a profit on our shipping.

I hope this clarifies things a bit, feel free to email me directly, chris at scrubcomponents dot com, if you have any more questions. Thanks everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

$6 shipping!?!

Whats to complain about $6 shipping - i'd be well chuffed if shipping was that cheap here in the UK!


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Well there appears to be something amiss with my attempts at pre-ordering with regards to the shipping. When I try, the shipping comes up at $15, and the drop down menu has no further options.


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

Something that is critical for me: what about rotor operation at sub-freezing temperatures? Like -30 Celsius?

I also vote for the weight-conscious centerlock option in 160 and 180mm sizes. As for the color, raw material color would be nice, unless the coloring also plays a corrosion protective role, in which case black would quite suffice.

Last but not least, in case the low-temperature operation is possible without much penalties, what is the prospect on overseas shipping, particularly to Russia?


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I've used the rotors for 5 rides, I really like these rotors alot, braking is very powerful and controlled.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

J. Random Psycho said:


> Something that is critical for me: what about rotor operation at sub-freezing temperatures? Like -30 Celsius?


Wow, I can't say we've tested them in such extreme temperatures! Let me ask you this, what kind of performance do you get out of a stainless steel setup in these conditions? My gut response would be that you can expect the same kind of performance from our rotors relatively. For example, if you see a significant drop in power with a stainless rotor, you will likely see a similar drop with ours.

As far as shipping outside the US, I don't anticipate shipping to be any problem. We are currently running all of our payments through PayPal, and cannot accept other forms of payment. If you are able to have a PayPal account, you can order through the website or email to request an invoice for your order.

Thanks everyone, keep those questions/comments coming, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Omg! :eekster: It's out already!!! And I'm digging the Shuriken style. Much better than my XTR's star...  

But no CL version! I haven't followed up closely this interesting thread but would there be a chance for a CL version in the not so distant future? 

TIA!


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## Scalfred (Oct 9, 2005)

Motomatt said:


> I've used the rotors for 5 rides, I really like these rotors alot, braking is very powerful and controlled.


Hi,

Any pictures of the rotors on your bike... just to see what they look like in action?


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

cool rotors 

going back to the ceramic discussion. I often wonder if one could take a used ceramic disk from auto racing and machine it down to a new bike rotor? Regardless, a ceramic bike disk would probably be too brittle.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

ceramic rotors only works well at very high temperatures
and you don't get that in a bike


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## J. Random Psycho (Apr 20, 2008)

singltraker said:


> Wow, I can't say we've tested them in such extreme temperatures! Let me ask you this, what kind of performance do you get out of a stainless steel setup in these conditions? My gut response would be that you can expect the same kind of performance from our rotors relatively.


I don't perceive a performance drop with sintered pads against steel rotors (then again, I don't brake as aggressively in the winter as I do when there's no snow). With organic pads, however, there is some penalty, but it still is bearable. Compared to other effects degrading braking performance at low temperatures, this one does not stand out; I just have to apply the brake somewhat harder. Actually, many people (but not me, thanks) ride with V's here in winter! For reference, my setup is: Formula Oro K24 front and rear with 160mm Hope floating rotors (which seem to have a life of their own  ), Goodridge braided hose and Formula organic pads up front, stock hose and Goodridge sintered pads rear.

One thing for sure, it's good to see a better alternative to Stan's aluminum rotors.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

STS said:


> ceramic rotors only works well at very high temperatures
> and you don't get that in a bike


My understanding was that this was solved with the road cars since their brakes have to work in freezing weather too.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Scalfred said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any pictures of the rotors on your bike... just to see what they look like in action?


Scalfred: I'm not sure if MotoMatt has pics of his setup but here's a couple different bikes we have in our personal fleet with prototype rotors installed.










We're still thawing out here in Park City, so we went on a ride the other day that seemed dry at the bottom. Then we went around a corner and right in to a mud bog. This was my bike after 10 feet, then 10 feet back after realizing the trails were not ready yet!










I have one more good one somewhere, but I can't seem to find it. I'll post it up later for everyone if it shows up.

Thanks again for keeping this thread alive, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Lovely rotors again, just not sure about having to use organic pads - they just dont last here in the UK  Lucky to finish a ride with the pads intact with organics around here.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

At $135 each for an unproven rotor, these are very attractive, if you're sniffing glue!


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

Scalfred said:


> Hi,
> 
> Any pictures of the rotors on your bike... just to see what they look like in action?


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## Irrenarzt (Apr 19, 2006)

Nice looking rotor. I'll chime in and say that 135 per 160 mm rotor is too high however.

I think $200 for a 180F/160R set with Ti hardware and pads for both front and rear would be more fair pricing. I know you put your time and effort into the development of these rotors but you'll sell more volume at a more fair price point. Over $300 for the whole kit (which you are easily approaching now as pads have to be purchased separately) is too high for everyone except the doctor/lawyer/executive weight weenie crowd. You'll recoup your development costs with higher sales volume.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

snowdrifter said:


> At $135 each for an unproven rotor, these are very attractive, if you're sniffing glue!


Many of the people here would try something to shed some grams. I have to pay $75-85 for Magura rotors. So, not too much of a stretch. I would only put them on the back for a while, thats where I seem to generate the most heat.


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

ziscwg said:


> I have to pay $75-85 for Magura rotors


Huh?

$54 a rotor.

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=195

Can I sell you some ocean front property in North Dakota?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Irrenarzt said:


> Nice looking rotor. I'll chime in and say that 135 per 160 mm rotor is too high however.
> 
> I think $200 for a 180F/160R set with Ti hardware and pads for both front and rear would be more fair pricing. I know you put your time and effort into the development of these rotors but you'll sell more volume at a more fair price point. Over $300 for the whole kit (which you are easily approaching now as pads have to be purchased separately) is too high for everyone except the doctor/lawyer/executive weight weenie crowd. You'll recoup your development costs with higher sales volume.


Irrenarzt: I appreciate your thoughts here, we want to hear the opinions of everyone on this thread, good and bad. I would like nothing more than to get to a point where we could offer a complete setup for the prices you suggested! Hopefully as our volume grows we can work towards that goal.

I do want to point this out, however. I just logged on to my favorite mail-order site and dropped a pair of Hope floaters (160mm), two pairs of Kool-Stop pads, and two sets of Ti rotor bolts into my cart. My subtotal before shipping is $209.66. Keep in mind that these are at discounted mail-order prices as well, which we cannot currently compete with. I'm sure you can imagine what that total would be if you ordered this same package at your LBS.

A similar order with Scrub Components rotors comes in about 66-68 grams lighter than this setup as well, based on a Hope floater weight of 90g.

Also, I want to let everyone know that we are working on getting reviews out there so we can move past the perception of "unproven" rotors in the near future. We've got them in the hands of a few magazine testers, as well as a few interested OEM builders and have had nothing but praise about them up to this point!

Anyway, thanks again everyone who has continued to be a part of this thread, I'm glad it has been this popular! Happy Trails!
Chris


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

singltraker said:


> and two sets of Ti rotor bolts into my cart.


Remove those from your cart, get some lightweight grips instead


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## adhumston (Mar 14, 2008)

> Also, I want to let everyone know that we are working on getting reviews out there so we can move past the perception of "unproven" rotors in the near future


Is there any type of guarantee? Like a staisfaction guarantee or something? I'm in the same boat as a lot of the other posters here. I'm definatly interested, but don't want to drop $300+ on something that hasn't been available to public yet.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*We're all been a guinea pig in our lifetime!*








Still don't have that mo0lah to burn yet especially no CL version!!!


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

*The MTBR Guarantee*



adhumston said:


> Is there any type of guarantee? Like a staisfaction guarantee or something? I'm in the same boat as a lot of the other posters here. I'm definatly interested, but don't want to drop $300+ on something that hasn't been available to public yet.


adhumston: I completely see where everyone is coming from, I suppose I would be hesitant as well. We are supremely confident in our product, and have not had really any negative feedback from any testers in the past 2 years. We're getting nothing but thumbs up so far from people who are riding them for reviews or testing for OEM applications.

That being said, here is the deal on a "satisfaction guarantee" on these. If you are sincerely interested but hesitant like adhumston, send me an email through the website, or at chris at scrubcomponents dot com. Inquire about the "MTBR guarantee."

I don't want to spell out the details on the forum, but basically if you purchase rotors from this first batch, follow our instructions, and can provide some honest, genuine feedback on why you don't want them, we'll take them back and return your money. You just need to email me first, which is really just a gesture that you are serious about our product. This offer is not open-ended, so we can stop offering it to future purchases at any time. I don't expect any of these rotors to come back.

I think that seems quite fair. Of course we're always appreciative of everyone's input on this thread, even the cute guinea pig pictures! Thanks everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

hummm, I wanted to try one of those 180mm rotors, but they are too expensive for me

If some day price is dropped to what I consider "logic price" then I will consider

anyway get luck with your work


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Cool item.

But on a side-note, this thread is becoming a bit amusing. Guys, there's always going to be things on the market that some people can't afford, get used to it. For a small number of enthusiasts, it's nice to know that something is available.

A Ferrari is illogically expensive for me. Remind me to e-mail them that when they drop their car price to $20,000 then I'll buy one.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

*160mm Scrub rotors in stock!*

Hey everyone,
I wanted to just thank everyone who placed pre-orders in the last couple weeks! You will be happy to hear that we now have 160mm Scrub rotors available, and are shipping on all pre-orders in the next day or two.

If you've been hesitant to pre-order, there are a still a few that have not been purchased from this first run. The next stock date is slated for late June at this time. In that batch we will also be introducing 180mm rotors and a small run of 140mm also.

Thanks again everyone for your support, and let me know if you have any questions or comments. Happy Trails!

Chris


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

BlownCivic said:


> I just went to pre-order a 160mm rotor. Your shipping is a little steep. Large envelope flat rate Priority shipping is $4.60 from NY, NY 10005 to my address in Blaine, Wa 98230. Your product is already borderline too expensive. Please do not try and make more profit on the shipping.


Ha! I work for a company that does mail order for a different industry. We always hear whining about shipping. Do you honestly think that the shipping cost is the only cost incurred with shipping? $6 is a steal, and he is losing money on that deal. For an item that size, it would cost around $12 from most companies, and even at that cost, shipping is still a losing enterprise. People dont pack things for free, tape isnt free, computers are not free, wrapping materials are not free, getting to the post office is not free, and wasting time with whining customers about shipping rates is not free.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

chequamagon said:


> Ha! I work for a company that does mail order for a different industry. We always hear whining about shipping. Do you honestly think that the shipping cost is the only cost incurred with shipping? $6 is a steal, and he is losing money on that deal. For an item that size, it would cost around $12 from most companies, and even at that cost, shipping is still a losing enterprise. People dont pack things for free, tape isnt free, computers are not free, wrapping materials are not free, getting to the post office is not free, and wasting time with whining customers about shipping rates is not free.


I think there was just a misunderstanding on this one particular order, and we have gotten it sorted out now so no problems!

Chris


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

singltraker said:


> I think there was just a misunderstanding on this one particular order, and we have gotten it sorted out now so no problems!
> 
> Chris


Yes we did. Thank you Chris for sorting that out. I look forward to getting this new rotor and trying it out. I'm currently using Kool Stop Organic pads. Do you think these will work well with this rotor?



chequamagon said:


> Ha! I work for a company that does mail order for a different industry. We always hear whining about shipping. Do you honestly think that the shipping cost is the only cost incurred with shipping? $6 is a steal, and he is losing money on that deal. For an item that size, it would cost around $12 from most companies, and even at that cost, shipping is still a losing enterprise. People dont pack things for free, tape isnt free, computers are not free, wrapping materials are not free, getting to the post office is not free, and wasting time with whining customers about shipping rates is not free.


Who the hell asked you for your rant? A well run comany would account for these expenses in their operating costs, and adjust their pricing accordingly. Many people get pissed to see outrageous costs for shipping when they know they can go down to the post office and ship for substantially less. I was not whining. I had a legitimate problem. It turned out to be Paypal related. STFU!


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

And who pays you to go to the post office... who puts the gasoline in your car/truck to drive these packages to the post office? He may have been ranting but he had a valid point. If you don't like the shipping price, don't order the damn part.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

DeeEight said:


> And who pays you to go to the post office... who puts the gasoline in your car/truck to drive these packages to the post office? He may have been ranting but he had a valid point. If you don't like the shipping price, don't order the damn part.


Once again, these costs should be covered in the pricing of the item. Oh, and last time I checked, the post office will come by and pick up packages from businesses, just like UPS and FedEx.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

And then you'd complain the items cost too much... oh wait...you did that also already.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Well if you want to split hairs, I in fact stated that the item was "borderline too expensive", and I was not complaining. In reality, what the hell is the difference: $135 plus $6 for shipping, or $141, and free shipping? Either way, the item costs me $141. My original issue was the fact that the Paypal store wanted to charge me $15 for shipping, even though my shipping address was in Blaine, Wa. The problem turned out to be Paypal's inability to understand that even though my Paypal account is Canadian, I was having the item shipped within the USA. Chris sent me a Paypal invoice directly showing the appropriate shipping charges ($6) which I am fine with.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> Yes we did. Thank you Chris for sorting that out. I look forward to getting this new rotor and trying it out. I'm currently using Kool Stop Organic pads. Do you think these will work well with this rotor?
> 
> BlownCivic: We are actually recommending the use of Kool-Stop's pads for the time being, and are selling several popular styles on our site now. You should have no problems with the ones you are using if they are in good shape and have not been contaminated or anything. Thanks for the question, and look for your pre-order to head out very soon!
> 
> ...


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

Does anyone have any ride results with these they are willing to share with the rest of us who can only dream of getting them?


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

My front rotor is on the bike, but not fully broken in yet. So far it is pretty noisy, but that is supposed to go away once it is broken in properly. My rotor came in at 56g as advertised. I'll be trail riding it either tonight or tomorrow afternoon. I'll let you know.


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I have over 20 rides on the rotor I'm testing, very strong braking power after break in, a little nosier than stainless rotor's , they don't squeal 
I'm very impressed.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,
I just thought I'd chime in and say that many of the pre-orders should be receiving their rotors this week. It sounds like some have already arrived! Hopefully we will start to see some more people commenting as they get a few rides under their belt. 

BlownCivic: Please feel free to get in touch with me if your noise issues do not go away after a proper break-in. We have had some that never make a peep from day one, and others that require the break-in described in the manual as well as one or two good rides to quiet them down. It just depends on all the usual variables (calipers, alignment, pads, etc.) 

Also, I have talked to Motomatt, he has had some for a while and seems very happy with them. Thanks for taking the time to post!

Anyway, thanks again to everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

singltrackr, interesting product. Does this disc material warp as would a steel rotor and can it be trued as easily as steel? I missed that point if it was covered earlier in the thread.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i bought 160 rotors .... wait for them

i am posting soon my impressions


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Well I have 2 rides on this new front rotor now. The break in is much further along. The rotor makes no noise any more. I'd say that I'm getting about 90% of the braking I was getting with the Hope Mono Mini Pro 160mm rotor I had on there before. I initially thought that I was getting 100% (or better) of the braking I was getting before, but that ride (last night) was on trails that don't have much in the way of downhill or really heavy braking (for anyone from the GVRD, it's the Junk Yard Dog Race course). However, this afternoon's ride (Delta Watershed) revealed that there's still a bit more before I've got back everything I had before. I could ride it like this for good. It's good enough for me. It takes a little more lever force than the Hope rotor to achieve the same stopping power. Noticeable, but not unreasonable. 

I look forward to the possibility that it might get stronger. If I don't reach the desired result, I'll try some different brake pads. I'm currently using Kool Stop organic with aluminum backing plates (exact same pad as with the Hope) with M975 XTR calipers. I'll try my brand new XTR Ti backed Resin pads next if necessary.


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

I'll soon have the titanium nitrite Windcutter 160/140 Alligators on with my Formula Evo's and will report back in:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

IAmtnbikr said:


> I'll soon have the titanium nitrite Windcutter 160/140 Alligators on with my Formula Evo's and will report back in:


Please keep in mind that this thread is specifically about the new Scrub Components rotors.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> Please keep in mind that this thread is specifically about the new Scrub Components rotors.


link, please :thumbsup:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

eliflap said:


> link, please :thumbsup:


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :eekster: :eekster: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:



singltraker said:


> I have always seen posts on this and other forums promising light rotors. Some are gimmicky. Some sacrifice performance or safety in the name of gram-shaving. Others come with all kinds of restrictions. Most just never actually become an available product.
> 
> We are about to launch Scrub Components, www.scrubcomponents.com. I would like to invite everyone to check out our site, and am hoping to use this thread as a place where you can ask questions directly to the manufacturers of Scrub rotors, as well as give us feedback about what you like, don't like, would like to see, etc. Here is a brief bullet list about these rotors:
> 
> ...


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

sorry ... i am in right place....

understood that there is ANOTHER topic.... sorry


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

shipped mine rotors ?????


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## robbieracer (Dec 3, 2004)

Hi
I have sent an email, but this is a good question for a forum:

What colour is the center of the rotor please, the photographs vary !!


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

robbieracer said:


> Hi
> I have sent an email, but this is a good question for a forum:
> 
> What colour is the center of the rotor please, the photographs vary !!


robbieracer: There are a few photos rolling around of some final prototypes, which were finished differently than the production version of our rotors. The finished product is a blue color. We would love to be able to work into offering several colors, so keep your input coming!

Here are some photos of the final product:



















I hope that clears the air, and thanks again everyone! By the way, we now have Ti rotor bolts in stock, and should have the pic updated on the site in the next day or so. Happy Trails!

Chris


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,
I hope you all got some great riding in this weekend, I know I did!

We got some extra Ti bolts with our order that arrived last week. If you have been lurking on our site and this thread, we have a deal for you! The next 15 rotors that are sold through the website (www.scrubcomponents.com) will be upgraded to include a set of top quality, US made Titanium rotor hardware. Just mention the deal when you checkout or send me an email so I know to include them.

Also, there is an updated photo of the bolts on the website, just surf to the "Titanium" page. They came out a cool "rainbow Ti" color, mixed between gold, blue and purple.

Thanks again, and I'll be back around here soon to answer any questions or let everyone know the free bolts are gone. Happy Trails!

Chris


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## robbieracer (Dec 3, 2004)

singltraker said:


> robbieracer: There are a few photos rolling around of some final prototypes, which were finished differently than the production version of our rotors. The finished product is a blue color. We would love to be able to work into offering several colors, so keep your input coming!
> Chris


I would buy at least one pair if they had grey centers: that blue would look awful on my dark grey bike with red ano... :thumbsup:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

singltraker said:


> Hey everyone,
> I hope you all got some great riding in this weekend, I know I did!
> 
> Happy Trails!
> ...


I also got a really good ride in this afternoon. The break in is complete. The front breaking is now to a level where I don't notice any difference from the old Hope Mono Mini Pro rotor that this Scrub rotor replaced. Best part is I'm a lot more stealth now. The Hope rotor made a low frequency howling noise when braking. The Scrub rotor is as quiet as any other rotor. I've yet to run it through any water. We'll see when the time comes. I can now sneak up on my competition. I now have 3 60-90 minute rides on the front rotor, and I'm very happy with my purchase.

Hey Chris,

Save me a set of bolts for when my 140mm rotor is ready to be shipped :winker:!


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

This is tempting me more and more to get a set of these - especially with the report by blown civic - no loss of power and quiet for the sealth pass!!!

I just read you are using the same pads and calipers I have so that makes me feel even better. I better call and see when the 180mm rotors are going up for sale.

Thanks and keep the reports coming.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey everyone,
I want to thank everyone who has purchased rotors under the "free Ti bolt" offer that we posted here earlier this week. We have already given away everything we wanted to, which is great! Because this was so successful I'm going to extend the offer through Saturday (June 7). 

Also, robbieracer was asking about the color and how it would look on his bike. I have let him know personally, but we have a couple of "one-off" rotors that are identical in every way to the production parts, but were not finished with the blue. They are a grayish-black instead. If you are interested, please send me an email before ordering to be sure I still have them, as there are not many available.

Thanks again everyone, and I'd love to continue hearing from people as they get their rotors and get them set up! If anyone has any questions or comments, let me know. Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I am still very impressed with the rotors very strong braking power no squealing and so very light


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## mcrent100 (Jan 25, 2007)

Please let us know if and when you will produce the rotors in the gray/black color... Those would be ,like the ones you showed us early in this thread a few months ago?


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

*Brake fade and good news.*

Glad to hear these have some sucess. My rear rotor (160 mm Magura SL drilled) comes in at 134 gr. It will be nice reduction in weight. Since Magura charges $75 for theirs, the price difference wont to hard to swallow.

Has anyone notice any brake fade with these new rotors that wasnt there before?


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

ziscwg said:


> Glad to hear these have some sucess. My rear rotor (160 mm Magura SL drilled) comes in at 134 gr. It will be nice reduction in weight. Since Magura charges $75 for theirs, the price difference wont to hard to swallow.
> 
> Has anyone notice any brake fade with these new rotors that wasnt there before?


 I have not noticed any Brake fade with the rotors


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

mcrent100 said:


> Please let us know if and when you will produce the rotors in the gray/black color... Those would be ,like the ones you showed us early in this thread a few months ago?


mcrent100: We still have an option for the upcoming stock since the finishing has not been done yet. If we get enough people asking for certain color options, we could be persuaded to introduce different options. I have a handful of 160mm rotors in the black if anyone is interested, but for now they are a one-off item.

Thanks again everyone for the questions, and everyone who has ordered in the last few weeks. Happy Trails,

Chris


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

singltraker,

at this point I would like to ask you to please place a classified ad to comply with the guidelines..... you are now openly selling them (even even if only in small runs)...and if you don't have an ad, this thread would fall under the "spam" category.

Thanks for understanding


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Crisillo: No problem at all! We like being a part of the forum, and obviously want to adhere to the guidelines. I will start working on getting an ad set up. Thanks, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Any progress or a yes/no on a centrelock option?


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

singltraker said:


> Crisillo: No problem at all! We like being a part of the forum, and obviously want to adhere to the guidelines. I will start working on getting an ad set up. Thanks, and Happy Trails!
> 
> Chris


Thanks for understanding, Chris! :thumbsup:


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> Any progress or a yes/no on a centrelock option?


Tiffster: Thanks for continuing to ask about centerlock. We would like to work toward having either a dedicated centerlock rotor or a Scrub Components "weight conscious" adapter. In attempt to be up front here, I would be surprised if that happened this summer. That being said, I just put a set of rotors on my wife's bike (XTR centerlock wheels) with a DT Swiss adapter. The install was smooth and the rotors are working flawlessly.

I know that is not the answer you were hoping for, but keep the interest and support coming. We started this thread for this reason, and will definitely listen to what the people want!

Thanks again, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Here's my lightweight version of the DT adapter. Chris King 12t cog lockring, and some liberal Dremeling of the DT splined hub. I've been running this for over a year now, 1st on an XTR M960 hub, and now on my DT Swiss 190 rear hub. Works awesome for me.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

That adapter looks dangerous for loads of reasons!


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Tiffster said:


> That adapter looks dangerous for loads of reasons!


Do share!


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## robbieracer (Dec 3, 2004)

robbieracer said:


> I would buy at least one pair if they had grey centers: that blue would look awful on my dark grey bike with red ano... :thumbsup:


I would LOVE a 180mm front with a grey center and a 160 rear in grey.. blue would look awful on many bikes.. not just mine! *hint *hint :thumbsup:


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

robbieracer said:


> I would LOVE a 180mm front with a grey center and a 160 rear in grey.. blue would look awful on many bikes.. not just mine! *hint *hint :thumbsup:


robbieracer: First off, very cool bike. Secondly, this is why we're here at the forum, for feedback about our product! We have a decent sized lot of rotors we're working on right now, and we'll have to make a call on finishes very soon. I would love to get a bunch of responses from everyone watching this thread. Your input could very well help determine what finishes are available in the near future! Obviously black is a very safe color, but we've tossed around a few ideas: more blue, red, white, and some kind of copper. We're probably not quite ready for the staple "limited edition pink" version quite yet, but who knows...

Please chime in if you have an opinion or idea, especially if you're bummed about the current color option. Thanks again everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## mcrent100 (Jan 25, 2007)

I would vote for black or dark gray like the rotors you showed us originally. Both would be very nice on almost all bikes...


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Black or dark grey is good. Red would match my red magura's, but the rest of my bike is black. I think from a marketing share standpoint, I would go with black. It will match most every color bike, and most bikes already have some on there. 

My official bike color is black. But, most of the time its this brownish grey from the dirt. I like function before looks. So, if the disks could stop a Corvette and weigh 60 gr, I wouldn't care if they were bright orange.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

The adapter is a product of creative weight saving, I like it.

Looks dangerous and ARE dangerous is not same thing in all occassions.

Everything is dangerous in a moron´s hands.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> The adapter is a product of creative weight saving, I like it.
> 
> Looks dangerous and ARE dangerous is not same thing in all occassions.
> 
> Everything is dangerous in a moron´s hands.


Thanks for your support! This was my inspiration:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

OK, I raced on my front rotor this past Saturday. 1st race of the year, and I did well considering my competition and the conditions. The course was not extreme from a downhill point of view, as it was in an urban setting. There were some fast downhill sections, but not long, and not all that high speed because of the condtions (wet and muddy). However, the course was very twisty with a lot of accelerating and braking. The Scrub Components front rotor worked perfectly. It was super easy to modulate, and had all the power I needed, all the time.

I had hoped to drop my last year's time from 1:40:41 down to below 1:20, but the conditions slowed *ME* down (didn't slow the Elite class guys down at all :madman: !). I did a 1:28. Oh well, there's always next year.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

on board on my scalpel

these pics are done as new , just installed

yes i'm using only 3 bolts for rotors ... it's not missing ....


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

and these , after first ride

installed new *KOOL STOP* organic pads on *F* and *R *

35 km done in flat , with little hill climbing and descending ... not very significative..

but in the night lot of rain fallen , so many soft braking times for not ride in water ...

impressions :

when wheel took up sand and dirty or water to rotor surface , no noise !!!

very good !!!

braking: not significative ride to examination ... for now too long on braking ... but it's only trial brakings .....


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

After only 5 hard brakings (25 required for break in) I could already lift the rear wheel - more power than NoTubes. Did my first race on them before properly broken in, and the disc was very noisy at first, but got more and more quiet, and power increased throughout the race.

I'd like black centers, the blue doesn't look so nice when the brake track gets blackened from the brake pad material embedding there.

Please make a 140mm!


Ole.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Ole said:


> Please make a 140mm!
> 
> Ole.


Yes please, so my front and rear rotors match. Oh, and make sure it is 50g or less. The 140mm Hope rotor that I am using now is 58g.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

eliflap said:


> on board on my scalpel
> 
> these pics are done as new , just installed
> 
> yes i'm using only 3 bolts for rotors ... it's not missing ....


So what does the bike weigh now?


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> So what does the bike weigh now?


i have on board some parts lighter than old installed:

KMC X10 SL chain

SCRUB 160mm rotors

but i destroy with use my ergal cassette 11-32 so i have at home only a LX cassette 400 gr about and i put on

and i have my lefty SL to 88+ to be tuned , so i have a 2008 RLC Lefty fork on, 300 gr heavier than standard SL

so this morning i ride in this conditions:


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## ejls2 (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi,

I'd be very interested in a pair of these if they had black/grey or preferably pink. Please, please don't do the limited edition route unless it's an extra $20 or whatever for a charity - just offer them in pink! 

Cheers,

Ed


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

eliflap said:


> yes i'm using only 3 bolts for rotors


scusa - quanto peso risparmi con 3 viti in alluminio in meno ? circa 3 grammi ? e per quello rischi la tua salute??? e proprio un bel lavoro di.....

poi vedo guaine del cambio tipo shimano dove potresti risparmiare di piu senza rischio....no, io veramente non ti capisco.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

we are still waiting for the 180mm version...


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## Bail_Monkey (May 8, 2007)

eliflap said:


> i have on board some parts lighter than old installed:
> 
> KMC X10 SL chain
> 
> ...


Under 10lbs ?


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Yes, please make a centrelock as well while you're at it!  TIA!


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

nino said:


> scusa - quanto peso risparmi con 3 viti in alluminio in meno ? circa 3 grammi ? e per quello rischi la tua salute??? e proprio un bel lavoro di.....
> 
> poi vedo guaine del cambio tipo shimano dove potresti risparmiare di piu senza rischio....no, io veramente non ti capisco.


ciao nino.

le guaine sono GORE RIDE ON ... lo so non sono leggere , le NOKON CARBON o le POWERCORDZ sarebbero meglio... le cambierò ... a settembre ...

le viti sono in titanio , alluminio per i dischi ? no grazie meglio solo 3 viti a ruota

yes , my GORE RIDE ON cables and hoses are heavier than POWERCORDZ or NOKON CARBON ... in september i will change it ...

bolts are in gold titanium , in alu for rotors ? no thanks , better only 3 ti bolts ...


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Bail_Monkey said:


> Under 10lbs ?


10 lbs ??????

my goal is to go under 8 kg ... 17-18 lbs ( have to convert )


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

eliflap said:


> 10 lbs ??????
> 
> my goal is to go under 8 kg ... 17-18 lbs ( have to convert )


Yeah, you have to convert. Us silly Americans (but still proud to be one) seem to not grasp that nearly the entire bike world is metric and we still think in pounds.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

ok 8 kg are 17,66 lbs ...

so my goal is under 17,66 lbs


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

STS said:


> we are still waiting for the 180mm version...


STS: They are coming soon, I promise! We are working feverishly to get a batch of 140mm, 160mm, and 180mm discs in the coming weeks. It looks like the majority of them will be finished either black or a dark grey. Keep the suggestions coming regarding color, as the feedback we get here will be very influential as to what we end up with.

Black or grey is pretty much a certainty now, so I'd love to hear some ideas if we were to offer a second color in smaller quantities. More blue? Pink? I'd love to hear some thoughtful suggestions.

Thanks again everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

well, for alternative colour, I preffer GOLD
I think it's more neutral than red, blue, pink...


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## jf951 (Jun 16, 2008)

oh man those look promicing! 
just wait till they come out in 203mm! :yesnod:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

singltraker said:


> STS:Black or grey is pretty much a certainty now, so I'd love to hear some ideas if we were to offer a second color in smaller quantities. More blue?


Well I'd like to see a blue 140mm rotor to match my current blue 160mm rotor, or else black/grey is fine, and when they come out, I'll sell the blue one, and buy 2 of the new color. I should probably do that anyways, as my new build has a black frame, and the rest is mostly going to be black as well.


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## vwcalbug (Apr 22, 2008)

+1 

for 203mm and 180mm 

gold/burnt orange would be awesome. Otherwise just nuetral colors: black/grey/brown


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## manurc (Sep 29, 2005)

Just received my 160 mm, one week from US to France

55 g on the scale, light blue

will fit it on the new bike, when it'ill arrive :madman:


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

you will love these rotors ....


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

*Sigh* Still no sightings of... CL version. Any news?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Onie said:


> *Sigh* Still no sightings of... CL version. Any news?


Onie: I don't have much to report on a Centerlock rotor yet, but I promise we haven't forgot about you!

I want to thank everyone for their support so far, we have been very excited by our initial customer feedback to date. Thanks to your input, the next go around will mostly be done in black. There will be a limited run in all three sizes in blue that should closely match the ones we've already sent out as well.

I'd love to see some more people who have ridden our rotors log in and post your thoughts here. Of course I hope they are all positive, but any and all comments and questions are greatly appreciated! Thanks again everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Same here, patiently awaiting the centrelock version....


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## sxotty (Nov 4, 2005)

eliflap said:


> 3 bolts


Are you sure running 3 bolts is a good idea? I mean they were tested for 6, so if they break on you it will be your fault.


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## Onie (Sep 15, 2005)

Oh, there you go, Chris! Now that I've got your attention. LoL! Thanks much for the correspondence! 

Awaiting... 

Thanks again!


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I have used the rotor for over 3 months now doing 1.5 to 2 hr rides 5x a week and I'm still loving them :thumbsup:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I recently switched from Kool Stop organic pads to Shimano resin pads and find that it no longer has enough stopping power. Some of the downhills on my local trails need some heavy breaking, and Friday while riding, I no longer had the power I needed. I ended up dragging the rear tire/brake a lot more than I normally do. 

I will be switching back to the Kool Stop organics to try and regain the stopping power.


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## Motomatt (Sep 8, 2007)

I use the original hope pads.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

*Server Crash, Please Help*

Hello Everyone, 
This is not why I want to be posting on this thread, but we recently experienced a system crash. Fortunately, everything has been salvaged from backup except one thing. We lost all of our email archive and contacts!

*If you have ever been in contact with us, we are asking if you would be so kind as to reply to the last email we sent so we can try to recover as much of our past correspondence as possible. *

Again, I want to assure everyone that orders were not lost, nor was any sensitive information compromised. We had a backup system in place, and simply neglected to include our email program in the backup list. :madman: oops.

I want to thank everyone in advance for your help, it is much appreciated. We can't wait to hear from you, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hello everyone,
I want to thank everyone for being so patient with how long it is taking to get the new rotors made. I wanted to just post some CAD renderings of the new 140mm and 180mm discs, as well as projected weights:

140mm - 39-42 grams
160mm - 56 grams (actual weight)
180mm - 64-67 grams

140mm disc:









180mm disc:









Thanks again, and please let us know if you have any comments, questions, or impressions and reviews if you have used our rotors! Happy Trails,

Chris


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

Have ridden my new rotors today - i am very happy!


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## robbieracer (Dec 3, 2004)

Has anybody fitted these puppies to Avid Juicy Ultimates and fitted the necessary organic pads? 
I am very intersted in the difference in feel or power that you might have found

cheers


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

Ok, I've just did TransAlp with Scrub rotors and am ready to write a small review.

Setup:
I was racing a hardtail with a 180 mm rotor up front and 160 mm one on the back. The brakes were Formula Oro K18, the pads were Kool-Stop organics.
My previous setup were stock Formula rotors and semi-metallic pads.

Riding conditions:
8 stages, 660+ km (410+ miles), 21000+ m (71000+ feet) vertical uphill, 22000+ m (73000+ feet) vertical downhill.
Paved and gravel roads mostly. The technical sections are really rocky and sometimes extremely steep (like long downhill sections with 30% gradient). One can see exact altitude profiles on the official web-site.
The route was mostly dry with some dirt/wet.

The rider:
I'm 68 kg (150 pounds).
We placed 104-th overall in Men's category. In general, I was sucking on flats, but good on the climbs. I was pretty average on paved descents, but significantly faster on technical descents then the guys/gals around us (places around 80-140 in Men's).

The rotors:
All-in-all, I was satisfied with the performance of the rotors and would most likely choose them, if I had to make the choice again.
- In comapison to my previous setup they definitelly have less power. But I had more finesse in applying the righ ammount of force to the brakes. Lack of power was only noticeable on long steep descents when one has to brake constantly to control speed - I had to squeeze the brake levers harder and my hands were more tired because of that.
- There is an issue with the rotors - they form a dish when really overheated during long descents. It was really big the first time, but after I fixed the dish I had almost no problems later - I had some dishing a couple of times during the following satges, but it was much smaller and didn't really bother me until I finished the stage and had the time to fix the issue. Maybe I was braking differently and the rotors could cool down inbetween hard braking, or it might be that the rotors became more resistant after that first time - I don't know.
- The rotors are much more plastic than steel ones, so the dishing I was talking about before and other bending can be easily fixed by slightly pushing the rotor in the right places. You don't even have to take the wheel off. It appeared to be a cool bonus, because when my partner bended his steel rotor in a crash, he couldn't bend it back enough on the trail - he had to ride with a rubbing rotor and trash it after the stage and buy a new one.
- The rotors are silent in normal conditions, but scream like hell when overheated. It doesn't bother me much and the guys in the front were always aware when I was ready to pass them on descents. 

So, thanks Chris - you have a nice product.
If anyone has more questions (I might have forgot to mention something) - just ask. I'll try and make some photos of the rotors in a couple of days.


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## ash240 (Jun 2, 2007)

New rotors or had you bedded and cycled them in?
I would expect dishing to be worse with a brand new rotor.


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

They were almost new: I've had maybe 3-4 hours of riding before going to the Alps. Of course, I did the breaking in part per manufacturer's instructions.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

Good review, thanks for the info

I'll put in another vote for 203mm rotors if they come in between 90 and 110 grams I'd be all over these, as would alot more of the dh and all mountain crowd. In my worst weight weenie moments I usually try to save at least 1 gram for each dollar spent, and I'd love to save 100+ grams of rotational weight savings for 135 bucks 

Another question, even though there haven't been any reports yet of broken rotor, how is the impact resistance of these. Do they shatter, or do they bend, and can they be bent back? My front rotor is on of my more damage prone parts


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

Huh... I don't think the rotors have good impact resistance. As I mentioned before, they are more plastic than steel ones, so they'll bent in case of a heavy direct hit.

I think, that the rotors are ideal for XC riding and especially racing - they perform great in typical XC conditions and are light. The issues I was talking about appear only when riding in big mountains (and I mean really BIG) - on long and steep descents, like hundreds of meters of vertical drop and gradients of 25+%...


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

can you retrue them if they get bent? I guess they are mostly aluminum, so that would prbably decrease their fatigue life, but could it be done without snapping them?


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey guys,
I'm glad to see a few people still chatting here, hopefully I can add to the discussion.

First off, I really appreciate Slyboots taking the time to write a thorough review. We've been in touch outside of the forum, and his feedback has been invaluable. After talking with him, I think it's safe to say that he currently holds the title as the most extreme user of our product to date!

We have not had a rotor in over 2 years of testing take an impact on the trail and actually break. That does not mean that someone won't break one, but it hasn't happened yet. The material is somewhat forgiving, and as Slyboots said can be trued and straightened fairly easily. The strength properties of our material are improved over a standard aluminum alloy, but will not behave like steel either.

Flystagg, quite honestly you've hit the nail right on the head as to why there is not a 203mm rotor available yet. We feel that in order to offer a truly innovative product for the DH/Freeride crowd, we need to do more than just cut out the 203 size and call it a day. We are looking at ways to improve impact resistance, heat dissipation, minimized dishing, etc.

Thanks again, and I'll be watching this forum as always to answer any questions that I feel I can contribute to. Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Hi,

SO ! What's the deal with these then, are they AS powerfull as a standard steel rotor or are they a little less powerfull? Reveiws seem to be very mixed.


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

They have less power, because you have to use less "powerful" organic pads with them.
As for me, I don't regret having less power (they give enough power for XC) - I got better modulation instead.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

some weeks on my SCRUBS ...

really happy ....


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

OK,

So are they as powerfull as a normal rotor used with organic pads? Or are they weaker than that too?


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

slyboots said:


> Ok, I've just did TransAlp with Scrub rotors and am ready to write a small review. ...
> 
> We placed 104-th overall in Men's category.
> ...


Then we should have seen each other many times! We finished 98-th. Great job then:thumbsup:


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## jadis3 (Nov 18, 2007)

Tiffster said:


> OK,
> 
> So are they as powerfull as a normal rotor used with organic pads? Or are they weaker than that too?


Stopping power was good if I've used new rotors together with new brake pads. 
Mixed pads and rotors give weak power usually.( I have several wheelsets and two bikes with diff brakes)


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## slyboots (Sep 16, 2005)

dennis rides Scott said:


> Then we should have seen each other many times! We finished 98-th. Great job then:thumbsup:


OFF
Yeah, we should have... I didn't recognize you from the small photos on marathon-photos.com, but I must admit - I was suffering too much, so my memory is not always clear...  
How did you like the race? Was it you first TA?
/OFF


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

Has anyone in the UK ridden these rotors?


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## flafonta (Feb 6, 2008)

Any rider update on the Scrub rotors?


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I've got 10-15 rides on my 160 front and maybe 4-5 rides on my 140 rear Scrub rotors. I get them hot enough that they pop and "tink" from time to time. They still keep on braking, and have plenty of power for my 90kg riding weight and the descents that I ride regularly.

I'm very happy with my purchase.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

BlownCivic said:


> I've got 10-15 rides on my 160 front and maybe 4-5 rides on my 140 rear Scrub rotors. I get them hot enough that they pop and "tink" from time to time. They still keep on braking, and have plenty of power for my 90kg riding weight and the descents that I ride regularly.
> 
> I'm very happy with my purchase.


I've got Avid brakes. Does one have to use the Kool-Stop organic pads, or could one use the Avid organic pads?

Thanks.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

The stock organic pads work, the Kool Stop work better.


Ole


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## capn 35 (Oct 19, 2007)

Absolutely love mine! They replaced clean sweep rotors (180 front / 160 rear) and even with the smaller front rotor and organic pads, they stop far better. The modulation is superior, without a doubt. I'm a 6'0'' 205lb rider, by the way.


From Gary Fisher


From Gary Fisher


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Ole said:


> The stock organic pads work, the Kool Stop work better.
> 
> Ole


Thanks.

BB


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## chrism (Jan 27, 2004)

Tiffster said:


> Has anyone in the UK ridden these rotors?


Given the requirement for organic pads, I would guess not. But then I suppose I have heard of people running Stans rotors and they have the same requirement.

I'm assuming that however well the discs cope, you wouldn't see any better life out of organic pads than with normal steel rotors (here in the UK they can last <1 ride). If it weren't for that I'd be extremely interested.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i use kool stop


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

swiss stop are good too , i guess

they are organic too


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I've tried the discs in really, really wet conditions, and they are absolutely no good then, no stopping power. I also tried them with sintered pads, just to see what happened, and they work really well when hot, but very poorly when cold. And when they are wet, they are cold... Not noticeable wear to the discs, though.

If you're doing a very wet race with lots of hard braking, I'd recommend steel discs for that race.

For dry or semi-wet conditions, the Scrub discs are fine!


Ole.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Ole said:


> I've tried the discs in really, really wet conditions, and they are absolutely no good then, no stopping power. I also tried them with sintered pads, just to see what happened, and they work really well when hot, but very poorly when cold. And when they are wet, they are cold... Not noticeable wear to the discs, though.
> 
> If you're doing a very wet race with lots of hard braking, I'd recommend steel discs for that race.
> 
> ...


 So... Whats the point in using discs that don't work...?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

They do work, just not very well when it's extremely wet and so cold that discs don't dry during braking. In the summer, I actually didn't have much problem with them in the rain. Kinda forgot about that. Used them in a couple wet races, and don't recall being troubled by them. The problems happened during a ride where it was wet and muddy, and only a few degrees above freezing. Used 180/160 on my trail bike, with Formula The One brakes, and the performance was awful. So I'm not using them on my trail bike, only on my race bike.


Ole.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

I used them in the snow yesterday, and they were fine. I haven't used them in the rain and since it's now winter I wouldn't be able to have that type of condition for many months. However, I will have the gritty dirt and snow that gets thrown up onto the rotors, and I will have a lot of feedback for that abuse. Deep snow always got my Marta SL's rotors howling a bit until the heat from braking dried them out. So far no issues, but I need deeper snow for further analysis and testing. 

Ok, so I went out and took some pictures and threw some snow on the rotors, they howled very loudly, like a banshee, but after a bit I learned the trick is to feather the brake down pretty hard for just a bit and then they dried quickly, else they just kept howling. Need some further research on this? No conclusions as yet.

I am doing a long term review on the Scrub rotors and should have a MTBR.com ProReview completed in a month or two. Using my Moots Mooto-XZ 29er for testing with Magura Marta SL brakes with Kool Stop organic pads.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

pastajet said:


> I used them in the snow yesterday, and they were fine. I haven't used them in the rain and since it's now winter I wouldn't be able to have that type of condition for many months. However, I will have the gritty dirt and snow that gets thrown up onto the rotors, and I will have a lot of feedback for that abuse. Deep snow always got my Marta SL's rotors howling a bit until the heat from braking dried them out. So far no issues, but I need deeper snow for further analysis and testing.
> 
> Ok, so I went out and took some pictures and threw some snow on the rotors, they howled very loudly, like a banshee, but after a bit I learned the trick is to feather the brake down pretty hard for just a bit and then they dried quickly, else they just kept howling. Need some further research on this? No conclusions as yet.
> 
> I am doing a long term review on the Scrub rotors and should have a MTBR.com ProReview completed in a month or two. Using my Moots Mooto-XZ 29er for testing with Magura Marta SL brakes with Kool Stop organic pads.


I look forward to your continued review of the rotors. At this point, what rotor size would you say would be the "ideal" XC trail and XC race for 29"er's? Do you notice any loss of braking power over your stock rotors on the 29"er that would need to be accounted for in perhaps choosing the best set up (like next size up for example)?

I'm at 180 lbs race weight and could go 180 front and rear or 180 front/160 rear with the brakes I currently own.

BB


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

I think the 180/160 combo is just right. No loss of power over my stock rotors, or at least nothing I would consider a major loss or change.


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## beatnik_ (Jul 3, 2008)

300 $ for a pair of rotors...we are crazy.


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## singltraker (May 18, 2007)

Hey Guys,

It's great to see some discussion happening finally regarding everyone's experiences with our rotors! We are always looking to see honest and open feedback so we can continue to improve.

One thing I wanted to make clear is that it is important to mention what pads you are using with our rotors when talking about performance. The friction couple has a completely different mechanism compared to a stainless rotor setup, and the particular compound you are using makes a huge difference. 

We are in R&D looking for a compound that will continue to improve our rotor, but currently we are recommending Kool-Stop as the best all around pad in all conditions. I look forward to seeing other reviews, both using the recommended pad and otherwise. Thanks everyone, and Happy Trails!

Chris


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## Thomas Anderson (Mar 10, 2006)

Does anyone know if the Hope mini pro 140mm discs are still available? I cant find them listed anywhere and at 86g for the 160mm version they seem to be pretty much the lightest steel items out there with an alloy carrier.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Why am I not surprised that nino is now bashing someone who might be moving in on his territory?


J_C.....please take your ongoing personal issues against Nino, to PM. It doesn't benefit any of us to hear about it. Thanx.


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## Tiffster (Jan 30, 2008)

They should be lighter than that..... My Mini Pro 160mm rotors are 78g each!


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Ashima AiRotor's are 83g for the 160 and 68g for the 140. I have the 180/160 for the last couple of months and am very happy with them.


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## Bikeon (Apr 17, 2008)

Thomas Anderson said:


> Does anyone know if the Hope mini pro 140mm discs are still available? I cant find them listed anywhere and at 86g for the 160mm version they seem to be pretty much the lightest steel items out there with an alloy carrier.


Look here http://julmtb.com/index.php?menu=photos_poids&id_type=183&ordre=marque&action= :thumbsup:


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## Baltazar (Jan 30, 2004)

Thomas Anderson said:


> Does anyone know if the Hope mini pro 140mm discs are still available? I cant find them listed anywhere and at 86g for the 160mm version they seem to be pretty much the lightest steel items out there with an alloy carrier.


?? have you seen this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=16448  140 mm floating rotor,


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## Thomas Anderson (Mar 10, 2006)

Baltazar said:


> ?? have you seen this http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=16448  140 mm floating rotor,


Yeah I looked at Chainreaction and Wiggle as well as the Hope site but the Pro discs were alot thinner and hence lighter than the normal floating discs - None of the floating discs are listed as the pro model. Maybe you jsut cant buy those discs seperately?


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## Baltazar (Jan 30, 2004)

don´t think you will find the PRO version on any site, but it+s maby possible to buy it as spare part if you contact chainreactioncycles. but if you look at the link that Bikeon posted, you will find out that you will not gain so many grams just becouse you buy the pro disc.


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## iClique (Oct 7, 2008)

singltraker said:


> STS: They are coming soon, I promise! We are working feverishly to get a batch of 140mm, 160mm, and 180mm discs in the coming weeks. It looks like the majority of them will be finished either black or a dark grey. Keep the suggestions coming regarding color, as the feedback we get here will be very influential as to what we end up with.
> 
> Black or grey is pretty much a certainty now, so I'd love to hear some ideas if we were to offer a second color in smaller quantities. More blue? Pink? I'd love to hear some thoughtful suggestions.
> 
> ...


Any chance of a RED? It would go great with my Ibis build with red I9 wheels that I'm building now.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Thomas Anderson said:


> Maybe you jsut cant buy those discs seperately?


I bought the Pro 140mm floating disc early last summer. It weighed 64g. I just asked the dealer to order the 140mm rotor from the Mono Mini Pro brake set. I also talked to the Hope USA distributor just to be sure it was available seperately.

I'm running my Scrub 140mm rotor now, and if memory serves me right, it weighs 40g. It works just as well as the Hope rotor it replaced. I still have the Hope rotor if anyone wants it.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

iClique said:


> Any chance of a RED? It would go great with my Ibis build with red I9 wheels that I'm building now.


You need the black to offset all that red on the wheel and tie it in with the frame.

BB


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## EHCRain (Jun 23, 2008)

are you still doing one off colors? id be interested in white ones 160/140


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*i like them*

we've been using Scrub rotors - 180mm (front) 160mm (back) on a DT 1450 wheelset, Stumpjumper Pro Carbon, Marta's with Swiss Stop pads, for a few weeks now in the Santa Monica mountains, mostly in the dry but twice in the rain.

the longer they've bedded-in, the quieter and stronger the braking.

wet weather didn't noticeably affected the rotors performance, they did not get muddy or gritty though, just rained on.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

culturesponge said:


> we've been using Scrub rotors - 180mm (front) 160mm (back) on a DT 1450 wheelset, Stumpjumper Pro Carbon, Marta's with Swiss Stop pads, for a few weeks now in the Santa Monica mountains, mostly in the dry but twice in the rain.
> 
> the longer they've bedded-in, the quieter and stronger the braking.
> 
> wet weather didn't noticeably affected the rotors performance, they did not get muddy or gritty though, just rained on.


Is the partial use of the rotor the limitation of your pad width? Or are your calipers not positioned correctly?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> Is the partial use of the rotor the limitation of your pad width? Or are your calipers not positioned correctly?


lol, take a look at the other photos posted here, all very similar pad marks.

i included close ups so that the braking track is visible, it's a close thing but the pads on both sized rotors are in full contact, no hanging ten.

'still watching paint dry waiting for the Mag Marta's to be let loose on the public - the 09 Marta's have an even wider braking track than previous models - so the best will be even better.

if/when my new bike is built with the Mags + a wheelset with another set of the Scrub rotors - i'll post comparison pics.

...i used to use Stan's 160mm aluminium rotors - these Scrubs blow their proverbial socks off.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

Hadn't peeked at the thread in ages, just happened to look when your photos were the ones to see easiest. I might take a few more looks now that you say this is normal. Seems like a lot of wasted rotor track. Stan's rotors were a joke, so why even compare?

ps Okay, see now that most aren't using the full track...is the extra unused material there for a reason?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> ...is the extra unused material there for a reason?


i'm hoping if anything - it will help keep the rotor from warping!

Stan's rotors work were intended for race use only, agreed not a fair comparison with Scrub rotors, but are no joke either.


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## Salt Cycles (Sep 25, 2004)

Any new riding reviews? Time to start getting my bike ready for riding and I think this is the year I go light weight rotors.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

cmanser said:


> Any new riding reviews? Time to start getting my bike ready for riding and I think this is the year I go light weight rotors.


if your using 09 Magura Marta's (with the larger Louise/Julie brake pads), the pad track is pretty much dead centre on the rotors braking area.


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## YT (Feb 23, 2009)

Got a set of these rotors a couple weeks back. Using with a new set of formula R1 brakes with stock R1 pads (organic). Braking power is excellent, only concern is that they squeal like a banshee. Hey Chris, is this normal? I FOLLOWED BREAK IN GUIDELINES. Every ride I hope it will go away, but no luck yet and its kinda annoying.:madman:


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## chuckji (Feb 7, 2008)

parbetter1 said:


> Got a set of these rotors a couple weeks back. Using with a new set of formula R1 brakes with stock R1 pads (organic). Braking power is excellent, only concern is that they squeal like a banshee. Hey Chris, is this normal? I FOLLOWED BREAK IN GUIDELINES. Every ride I hope it will go away, but no luck yet and its kinda annoying.:madman:


I have the same set up (with 160/140) - some squeal at first, but after one ride on problem.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

i too am working through the squeeling issues. wound up switching back to steel rotors for the Nationals this past weekend due primarily to noise. unfortunately the Elixir calipers do not have many aftermarket pad options yet...


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## p_shep (Jan 12, 2005)

Just hit the trigger fro some white ones


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## usuckpoo (Mar 16, 2009)

Wow im tempted...but USD350 for a pair of disccsS???


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## JaLove (Dec 24, 2006)

usuckpoo said:


> Wow im tempted...but USD350 for a pair of disccsS???


LOL. Exactly. Almost more than I've paid for any of my full front and rear disc brake setups. Hydraulic or mechanical. When I can do one finger nose wheelies on a 160mm, 90g rotor that costs only $13.00 from Pricepoint.com, I'll say that this is one of the worst price to weight loss ratio products I think I've seen so far on this forum. They would have to be proven to last at least 5-10 times longer than other rotors for me to even consider them at this price, eh?

You would get so much more for $350 if you ponied up just $100-200 more for an ultralight wheelset or even an upgraded frame. You could potentially save more weight going with a lighter crankset, saddle, seatpost stem and bars for less money than this. There were people selling new, 2009 OEM SID Race suspension forks on Ebay for less than $400 just a week or two ago. Just to put it in even more perspective, I spent only $499 on the 1080p, 37" LCD display that I'm typing this on right now. Finally, because I was just looking into this for the summer, I can get brand new, quality slotted and vented front rotors with new pad carriers for my CAR for only $125 more than these guys are asking for a pair of 6" pieces of "metal matrix." But everyone has their wants and needs, eh?


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## josliver (Oct 5, 2007)

I was using Hope mono mini Pro brakes and original 160mm rotors with very good results, enough power. 
I my new Epic I switched to a pair of 160mm Scrub rotors with new Hope mini X2 brakes.
I am facing some braking power and excessive noise problems and I need to define the root cause for this abnormal situation. 
By reading this thread I know that the problem are not the Scrub rotors by themselves but something else.
I used the rotors for around 200Km and things improved in initial Km´s but seem to have stablized now, looks like, no more improvement.

Can anyone help me?  

1. Are the original Hope pads not adequate to work with the Scrub rotors?
(At the moment Kool Stop does not have the pads for the new Hope X2 calipers)
2. In case I switch to new pads do I need to remove the "deposit of pad dust" that is attached to the rotor? Any suggestion on how to do it?
3. Any other suggestion I can try to improve braking power, apart from changing the pads.(keeping the rotors, of course)? 

Thank you for your time ..... JO


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

josliver said:


> Any other suggestion I can try to improve braking power, apart from changing the pads.(keeping the rotors, of course)?


no need to remove any deposits on your rotors, they help in braking,

but you could take your brake pads out and re-surface them with coarse then fine with wet & dry paper ...might be worth a try?

i'm using Swisstop organics with my Scrubs, they are very good.

http://www.swissstop.ch/Mountain.aspx

hope that's of some help.


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## josliver (Oct 5, 2007)

culturesponge,

Thank you very much for your suggestion, I will do as you suggested.
My problem to try other set of pads is that the Mini X2 calipers are very new and no other supplier has pads for them, except Hope.

My hope is that someone already tried the Scrub rotors with the X2 calipers and the original Hope pads, and can confirm (or not :thumbsup: ) the same results I have.
If others confirm the weak brake power, that would mean that maybe the pads are not very adequate. i would remove the Scrub rotors and put them back in near future with Kool Stop pads (when they make them available).
If others have good results, means I have to try a different root cause for my problem.

Best regards ... JO


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## YT (Feb 23, 2009)

UPDATE TO ORIGINAL POST
After my scrub rotors squealed like a banshee with my formula R1 organic brake pads (stock), I called Chris at scrub, who suggested switching to the kool stop pads. After installing and again following the brake in guidelines, off I went to ride. Instantly the front brake howl was gone completely. The rear still has some howl (much less and quieter) but only at full compression braking. I think that with a couple more rides it will be gone completely.....Thanks for the help Chris, and I hope this helps others


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## Robin v Berkel (Aug 19, 2008)

JustusA said:


> I would like a 140 centerlock version
> good luck guys!


m2


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

After installed this rotors and notice that - they are really flat (just little little bent) and after you truing the rotors once, they will not bent again. Not like the S-brand alum. disk, just apply few brake on it and bent again.

Break-in of the disk last night - 

First impression is : They are GREAT ! :thumbsup: 

Stopping power is better than my previous setup - full set 08 mono mini pro f/r 160 floating disk. 
Current set up - 09 marta sl / a2z origanic pad (less metal wire than koolstop)/ f/r 160 scrub rotors. 

I don't expect too much before riding cause of the previous experience (S brand alum. disk). 
Instruction from Scrub said at least provide 25 times hard braking (break-in)on each rotor. But i only applied 4-5 times on it, the brake power is coming clear. 

No squeal and keep straight after 50+ hard braking.:thumbsup:


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