# new saint brakes



## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

Anybody try these out yet? Thoughts vs codes or last year's stuff?


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## FreeRidin' (Dec 26, 2006)

I've been on them for a month now and I'm very impressed.

I was previously on XT levers paired to m810 calipers and prior to that a full m810 set up. After half a season or so my m810 lever/ master cylinders would start to leak making it impossible for a nice firm bleed to last. The XT lever set up was great with no real issues.

The m820 brakes are the best I've felt. Most notable to me is the "solid" lever feel. Power and fade was never an issue with my past Saint set ups, I can't really distinguish much of a difference. Modulation is similar to the past Saints with maybe a little bit of improvement.

However, they are incredibly expensive! I'd like a comparison to the new Zee brakes.

Also have a few sets for sale...they're going quick.
BRAND NEW Shimano Saint m820 disc brake set - Pinkbike


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## CombatMutt (Jan 3, 2011)

My buddy has the new Zee brakes and loves them. Can't beat the price and unlike the Saint, is available for sale.


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

Went from Code Rs to older Saint m810s this season. My rear lever and caliper are seeping oil but other than that they are a great upgrade. My Codes would fade when i was on them but the Saints keep marching in. Aside from the seeping of the oil I really like them. I imagine the newer M820s are great as well but couldn't justify the extra $100 each side for them.


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

I just got a new set of m810s with both levers both brakes and rt86 rotors for $400. I couldn't justify buying the m820s after all the great things people have said about the m810s.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I haven't had any leaking issues with either of my M810 sets. One I've had since they were first released. The new ones are hella 'spensive!!!


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

Spent 10 days on M820s in Whistler, have two sets of M810s at home. 

Felt the same to me. Love the shorter levers. 

All three sets have been 100% rock solid for me - no leaking, no fade, no nothin.


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

anyone know if there's a difference between the new saint and zee calipers? they look the same except for the logos and the pads that they come with.


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## robin_hood (Feb 8, 2006)

the zee only lacks the reach adjustment. otherwise they are the same.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

They do look identical except for the pads on the Saint have the cooling fins and the reach adjust. I will say that I don't think it would be acceptable to me not to have the reach adjust with Shimano brakes. As the pads wear, the levers just move around too much and I use all of the reach adjustment throw that is available.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

I also like my M810's and have had no issues with them. How much are a set of the new brakes going for?


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

$319 from Universalcycles and thats PER side.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

aedubber said:


> $319 from Universalcycles and thats PER side.


Wow, I'll keep my 810's.


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

$250 per side @ CycleClub

Shimano Saint M820 disc brake front (1000mm)

Most companies are pricing these things sky high because they can. Give a year or so on the 820s and they should settle down in price.


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## kenbentit (Jan 2, 2003)

The Zee's look almost identical to the Saint's but the calipers are MUCH heavier. Performance seems to be similar but I didn't get to do much more than a short test ride on them in the parking lot (they ruled the speed bumps btw )


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Sounds like the ZEE's are nice, but not worth the savings over Saint.


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## monstertiki (Jun 1, 2009)

aedubber said:


> $319 from Universalcycles and thats PER side.


If you buy from universal, use coupon code vip15 to save 15% off your orders above $300.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

monstertiki said:


> If you buy from universal, use coupon code vip15 to save 15% off your orders above $300.


:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## robin_hood (Feb 8, 2006)

zee 311g
saint 302g


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## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

Went to the shop to pick these guys up. $700 with rotors hahahahahaha no fing way. Any deals on the old saint stuff going on??


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Yea the older stuff is a little cheaper but nothing crazy good ...


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

jurichar said:


> Went to the shop to pick these guys up. $700 with rotors hahahahahaha no fing way. Any deals on the old saint stuff going on??


Wiggle | Shimano Saint M810 Front Disc Brake Lever and PM Calliper Disc Brakes
Wiggle | Shimano Saint Rear Disc Brake Lever and Post Mount Calliper Disc Brakes


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

Woahhhhh that price is insane good.


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

eurospek said:


> Wiggle | Shimano Saint M810 Front Disc Brake Lever and PM Calliper Disc Brakes
> Wiggle | Shimano Saint Rear Disc Brake Lever and Post Mount Calliper Disc Brakes


Thats where i ordered mine. Great price and their customer service is amazing, even living here in the US they are taking care of me........so far.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

meSSican said:


> Thats where i ordered mine. Great price and their customer service is amazing, even living here in the US they are taking care of me........so far.


Where your cables also mixed up, front longer, rear shorter?


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

got my set of new m810s for cheaper! haha rode them for the first time yesterday, and i have to say they are CRAZY GOOD. i paired them with rt86 203mm rotors. but i did buy the levers and calipers separate, and i'm glad i did. now my lines are the perfect length.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

howardyudoing said:


> got my set of new m810s for cheaper! haha rode them for the first time yesterday, and i have to say they are CRAZY GOOD. i paired them with rt86 203mm rotors. but i did buy the levers and calipers separate, and i'm glad i did. now my lines are the perfect length.


From where? It's not a bad idea as you gotta trim the lines anyway.


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

Fleebay. I got lucky with a best offer. but I got the levers and calipers for 260.


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

howardyudoing said:


> Fleebay. I got lucky with a best offer. but I got the levers and calipers for 260.


That is a nice score!


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

howardyudoing said:


> got my set of new m810s for cheaper! haha rode them for the first time yesterday, and i have to say they are CRAZY GOOD. i paired them with rt86 203mm rotors. but i did buy the levers and calipers separate, and i'm glad i did. now my lines are the perfect length.


What brakes did you have before? I been thinking about doing a whole SAINT setup on my new build but never been on SAINT brakes before .. I had some AVID Code Rs and they were OK ...

Do they modulate pretty good ? and how do they do with cooling ?


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

aedubber said:


> What brakes did you have before? I been thinking about doing a whole SAINT setup on my new build but never been on SAINT brakes before .. I had some AVID Code Rs and they were OK ...
> 
> Do they modulate pretty good ? and how do they do with cooling ?


My bike came with elixir 7s which were horrible. The modulation on the saint is very nice, super controllable, and I wouldn't say heat is an issue since I am using rt86 icetech rotors. very fancy.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

i think chainreaction are doing the older saints for 140 pounds,,,, 

i was in whistler for a 2 weeks holiday at the end of june, we flew out the day shimano did their product launch in the bike park, a coupple of the journo's stayed with us, they all seemed to say that these new saint brakes were good but very inconsistent, apparantly the bite point changes randomly. look at the reviews on google, almost all the journalists that were there for the product launch report the same issues.


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

I didn't notice the bite point change at all, and I was using them for much longer than the journalists...


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## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

I ended up pulling the trigger on a set of xt. I think these are gonna be pretty sweet for the dh rig


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## Swell Guy (Jan 20, 2005)

I have a new bike with an all-Saint build. I like the new brakes and all, and have to admit I'm not much of a techy guy. They seem grabby enough, and don't fade. But, I will say this - the pads started squealing like stuck pigs after about a day or two of riding. It comes and goes, but it's really annoying. If nothing else, it's really emphasizing how much I ride my brakes! I know it's a bad habit, but neither my Juicy's nor Elixirs ever did that.

Other than that, they seem like quality product. I'll report back after I've ridden them a bit more.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

the price of the Zee and Saint scared me back to the XT's. lol


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

I am having the inconsitant bite point with these brakes. They are awesome when they work but they swtich back and forth all of the time which does not result in confidence. 

Does anyone know if you run an xt lever with the saint calliper if it solves the problem?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

The Beater said:


> I am having the inconsitant bite point with these brakes. They are awesome when they work but they swtich back and forth all of the time which does not result in confidence.
> 
> Does anyone know if you run an xt lever with the saint calliper if it solves the problem?


you have air in your line.


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

Swell Guy said:


> I have a new bike with an all-Saint build. I like the new brakes and all, and have to admit I'm not much of a techy guy. They seem grabby enough, and don't fade. But, I will say this - the pads started squealing like stuck pigs after about a day or two of riding. It comes and goes, but it's really annoying. If nothing else, it's really emphasizing how much I ride my brakes! I know it's a bad habit, but neither my Juicy's nor Elixirs ever did that.
> 
> Other than that, they seem like quality product. I'll report back after I've ridden them a bit more.


Try setting up your caliper body again and clean your rotors with rubbing alcohol and a clean rag or gently with a paper towel so as to not leave any particles from either on the rotors. Take out your pads and do the same. Be sure not to let your pistons creep in, so put the bleed block in.

These brakes should be consistent and should not squeal at you. My XTR brakes have partially warped after some abuse and still, no chirping.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

I had them bled twice and there were no bubbles so I am not sure about the air.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

The Beater said:


> I had them bled twice and there were no bubbles so I am not sure about the air.


In my opinion, that's what it is - probably need to bleed again. Unless the new levers are crap (I doubt it), the M810 saint's are rock solid and have consistent engagement.

Can you bleed the new ones from the caliper up with a syringe? I've had the best results doing that with the M810's. Plus you need to tap the caliper and lines with the plastic handle of a screwdriver to knock any bubbles loose or they will bugger up your bleed.


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

ya I had 810's before and they were awesome. I have read a bunch of media releases which are saying the same inconsistent lever throw, which is leading me to believe it is a problem with the design


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

One other potential is that you have the leaky brake lines. Shimano has been replacing a bazillion of them on XT and XTR brakes, along with new pads... (according to threads here) maybe check for a little oil leakage near the crimped on ends?


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

Hmmmmm... many shops in Whistler are using M820s for rental fleets. Have heard of no problems - and used myself for two weeks up there with no fade or weirdness despite 10-25k vertical / day.


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## Teresa460 (Sep 5, 2012)

Went to the shop to pick these guys up. $700 with rotors hahahahahaha no fing way. Any deals on the old saint stuff going on??


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## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

Just to add - you should probably learn to bleed them yourself. These are the easiest brakes to bleed I've yet come across, and there's no reason to pay a ashop $20 to do it for you. Take your time the first couple of goes, use the on-line video resources, and do it right. 

Saints are the most reliable brakes you can get, so if they are still not 100% perfect after being bled properly, there is something wrong.


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

I get the bleeds done for free,


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

i was in whistler when the saint product launch was on,,,, one of the journo's was staying at bearback chalet with us, he said the new saints had a very inconsistent bite point, he put that in his final review in the mag to. 
i hope they are good brakes though, as i have just dropped 300 notes on a pair with icetech rotors.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

I feel that bedding the pads is essential to consistent braking and bite.


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

I bedded the brakes fine, the brake power is great it is just the bite point goes from no lever throw to normal and back multiple times down a run. You never know if 5 mm of lever pull is going to lock the wheel or 25mm's will. 

At first I thought maybe the rod which pushs the piston was bent causing it to hang up however they are straight as can be. I also thought maybe there was some heat build up for some reason however it is not at the end of a run it can start right away and go off an on all the way down the trail.

My 810's never felt bad in the 3 seasons I ran them. When they needed a bleed you could tell but it was never the same feeling as the problem I am having with the 820's/.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

inspect the pads for uneven wear or ridges or high points.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

damn, i'm still rocking M755 XT's from like 2000 or something and they still work flawless. no reason to fix something that isn't broken...


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> damn, i'm still rocking 855 XT's from like 2000 or something and they still work flawless. no reason to fix something that isn't broken...


You mean the rebranded Grimeca brakes?


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

they definitely appear visually the same. regardless, they still work excellent and always have...


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## PeytonP (Aug 29, 2011)

The Beater said:


> I bedded the brakes fine, the brake power is great it is just the bite point goes from no lever throw to normal and back multiple times down a run. You never know if 5 mm of lever pull is going to lock the wheel or 25mm's will.
> 
> At first I thought maybe the rod which pushs the piston was bent causing it to hang up however they are straight as can be. I also thought maybe there was some heat build up for some reason however it is not at the end of a run it can start right away and go off an on all the way down the trail.
> 
> My 810's never felt bad in the 3 seasons I ran them. When they needed a bleed you could tell but it was never the same feeling as the problem I am having with the 820's/.


The user guide actually talks about this. It says that under Dh extended braking sessions the oil can boil/bubble/expand and compromise the lever. It said just let of for a split second and it would go back to normal. I thought that was strange...

Anyway, why do people hate on Avid so much? My 203/180 X9 combo was absolutely perfect. The only reason I'm running a M820 now is because a friend wrecked my brake in a fall and covered the cost of a new set- I threw In a bit more to get Saint.
I'm not just crazy impressed. It grabs for sure, but I don't have the control with it out of the box like I did with X9. I got a pre-bled set, re-bled it because I have to pull the lever to my fingers to get any sort of bite, and it didn't change. I was given some good advice on how do fix it on this thread.
Hopefully that will help. If not, I'm sticking with Avid.


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

PeytonP said:


> The user guide actually talks about this. It says that under Dh extended braking sessions the oil can boil/bubble/expand and compromise the lever. It said just let of for a split second and it would go back to normal. I thought that was strange...
> 
> Anyway, why do people hate on Avid so much? My 203/180 X9 combo was absolutely perfect. The only reason I'm running a M820 now is because a friend wrecked my brake in a fall and covered the cost of a new set- I threw In a bit more to get Saint.
> I'm not just crazy impressed. It grabs for sure, but I don't have the control with it out of the box like I did with X9. I got a pre-bled set, re-bled it because I have to pull the lever to my fingers to get any sort of bite, and it didn't change. I was given some good advice on how do fix it on this thread.
> Hopefully that will help. If not, I'm sticking with Avid.


The Saints are downhill oriented brakes I bet they grab great to stop you when you need it.
I don't think they will provide the same light finesse of the regular 2012 XT brakes, which have light breaking as well as grab.


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

I prefer shimano over avid for their simplistic ideology. They don't offer a bunch of choices, so there are no compromises within price ranges. 

Avid likes to make too many different brakes with different options at gradual price increases. This results in individuals opting for cheaper brakes instead, which might not suit their needs. Just pointing out that your X9s maybe great, but many people run into problems with their more affordable lower end stuff. Also, the brakes that tend to come with complete bikes, seem to be on the lower end of the scale. People's experiences will be different with different avid brakes.

Also, mineral oil is a whole lot easier to work with than DOT fluid. DOT fluid is nasty stuff that starts to corrode materials, like seals. I've seen paint chips and way more debris in the fluid when bleeding avid brakes than shimano brakes. All which would contribute to inconsistent feel, thus the need to bleed avid brakes more often.

Bleeding shimano brakes is also cheaper, since all you need is the fluid. No need for a syringe kit.

I will say that i jumped from elixir 7s to m810 saints, so i can't give insight on comparable brakes from the competing companies. But after my elixir 7s started to pulse and fade, virtually killing my fingers, I opted out of avid.


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

Well shimano is taking my brakes back, sending me some zee's in the mean time until they cane get me some new saints. Big old thumbs up to Shimano for the support.

Mine saint problems were not caused by heat as it could happen 10 seconds into as trail and continue all the way down.


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

from the factory? are the saints out of stock?


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

they are waiting on a new batch I think their demand has the stock out not 100 percent sure though


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

awesome. are they making you pay for shipping?


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

not that I know of we will see. sounds like I fluked out and go a bummed pair


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

The Beater said:


> not that I know of we will see. sounds like I fluked out and go a bummed pair


Please keep up posted man , cuz im looking to pull the trigger soon and its a pricey option:thumbsup:


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## eurospek (Sep 15, 2007)

Wonder if you get to keep the Zees as well?


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

i am now 3 days into my whistler trip so have 3 days use on these brakes, all i can say is wow, compared to the magura louise that they replaced, the stopping power is imense, they modulate so well have great feel, but at the same time can be very grabby, but thats more down to me having poor nreaking technique, or should that be panick braking at the wrong time,  i am very impressed upto now, and cant say i have noticed any discrepancies in the bite point,


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Good to hear the good news !! Lol I just pulled the trigger on the new saint stuff , brakes , rear derailer , and shifter ... Can't wait


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

yeah you wont be dissapointed, ( hope not anyways ha ha)
i will report back in a few days to let you know how theyre holding up.


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

by the way, the new shifter and derailleur are sweeettt..................


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## ehigh (Apr 19, 2011)

PeytonP said:


> The user guide actually talks about this. It says that under Dh extended braking sessions the oil can boil/bubble/expand and compromise the lever. It said just let of for a split second and it would go back to normal. I thought that was strange...
> 
> Anyway, why do people hate on Avid so much? My 203/180 X9 combo was absolutely perfect. The only reason I'm running a M820 now is because a friend wrecked my brake in a fall and covered the cost of a new set- I threw In a bit more to get Saint.
> I'm not just crazy impressed. It grabs for sure, but I don't have the control with it out of the box like I did with X9. I got a pre-bled set, re-bled it because I have to pull the lever to my fingers to get any sort of bite, and it didn't change. I was given some good advice on how do fix it on this thread.
> Hopefully that will help. If not, I'm sticking with Avid.


I would try adjusting the free stroke and pad contact. Avid catches a lot of flack thanks in part to how many bikes they come set up on. I also don't care for the lever feel of Avid brakes, but that's more personal than anything else.


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## meSSican (Aug 8, 2010)

Just spent my first day at the DH park on my new Saint M820 brake set. I got them as a warranty replacement since my M810s started leaking. I think they are a decent improvement over the 810s but I would not pay what they are asking. I don't feel much improvement in modulation but notice that they do have more power. I never noticed my 810s fade and the 820s never came close to fading. They are still a bit "grabby" but I have not had any issues with them. After only 1 day of riding they only made a humming sound once but quickly went away. They lever feel is amazing and I really like how much more compact they are.
I came off Code Rs (which had a bit of brake fade) prior to the 810s and think that my journey in brakes has been a progression.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Sounds good meSSican as I was on code R's myself  ... I never tried the m810 so I guess the m820 wil be a pretty big improvement for me


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

well afteralmost 3 weeks of solid park and whistler xc testing/abuse its time to report back, 
the saint have done me proud and really impressed, they are a great brake, with great power great feel and modulation, how ever i have noticed the same problems with the inconsistant bite point,
its really weird. most of the time the brake will bite as the lever is close to the bar, ( this is how i set it up) but every so often the bite point will randomly change, i will pull the lever and it will bite right at the top of the lever pull, then it will go back to normal, then it will bite halfway through lever pull, then go back to normal, you never know when or where the bite point will engage during the lever pull,


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## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

what temperature are you riding in?


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

Temperature doesn't make a difference and it is not at the bottom of runs it is all over. I have yet to get a chance on my " new" new saints which shimano sent me, due to an injury. Soon though and hopefully it will be problem solved.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

dont really see what temp would effect the bite point, but anyways, its been hot, 
average of 25-29c 
not sure what it is, its weird, the brake works fine, just the bite point that changes,


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## Trail_Blazer (May 30, 2012)

Bite point change could be screws need to be tightened on rotor or maybe pads are not fitted into their seat in the caliper.


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

everything is tight,,,, and the pads are fitted and seated correctly,,,,


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## FreeRidin' (Dec 26, 2006)

3 or 4 months on my 820s and the rear lever/ master cylinder has sprung a leak. It appears to come from the push rod...same issues I have had with countless 810 levers. Luckily, Shimano is easy to deal with.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

delirian said:


> well afteralmost 3 weeks of solid park and whistler xc testing/abuse its time to report back,
> the saint have done me proud and really impressed, they are a great brake, with great power great feel and modulation, how ever i have noticed the same problems with the inconsistant bite point,
> its really weird. most of the time the brake will bite as the lever is close to the bar, ( this is how i set it up) but every so often the bite point will randomly change, i will pull the lever and it will bite right at the top of the lever pull, then it will go back to normal, then it will bite halfway through lever pull, then go back to normal, you never know when or where the bite point will engage during the lever pull,


Both sets of mine are now doing this, I'm going to give Shimano a call today.

Anyone know if the new XTR 988 levers do this? From a quick glance they look identical, but I've not heard of XTR's having this problem.

Wondering if the issue stems from the Saint lever, or something else? Kinda unnerving to not know when the brakes are going to engage.....


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

let us know what shimano have to say about the problem... i spoke to my mate who got me the brakes from his shop. ( he's a bike mechanic) he said it sounds like i have air in the system hence the inconsistent feel, i will bleed the brakes before my next whistler trip and see how they go.


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

Will do.


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## taikuri (Oct 22, 2012)

Any update to this ?


Should I just buy whole 820 saint brake set and be happy with it, or buy saint calipers and go for XT levers ?


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## rscecil007 (Apr 7, 2007)

I'd read this thread I started over on RM:

Saint 820 brakes inconsistent bite point - any fixes or solutions yet?


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Hey bro dont feel too bad .. I experienced a little bit of whats going on but not very drastic . Def a little upset considering how expensive these babies are . Seems like many people like HOPEs once all setup perfectly. Who knows


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