# Lux-RC L312 single XP-G project...advice?



## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Alrighty...I ordered my triple...but I was just too dadgum tempted to get the single. Such a good price! I ordered one and I'm thinking about making an even more miniature light.

-Single XP-G
-Integrated driver
-14.6mm diameter board

I want to keep the thing as small as possible...but I don't wanna kill the functionality of it.

1. Optics: I'm looking at the Ledil Tina 16.1mm diameter optics. Will this work out well do you think?

2. What kind of run time will I be looking at with a 7.4v 2500 mAh pack versus a 900 mAh pack?

I'm thinking about sticking with the "Hex Bar" design for now to keep it Koo. This one will have to be 0.75" hex bar giving me ~ 1.5mm of wall thickness from flat-to-flat and a couple more from corner to corner. May just do the silicone on this one...I'll have to see how much room I actually have to drill and tap for a face cap.

So yeah...I guess mainly for now I want some advice on whether or not the optics will be decent enough...and runtime. (as my triple isn't finished...this project will be a while...but the gutz are ordered:thumbsup: )

http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order

http://www.lux-rc.com/content/showcase/L30/L312PCB-EN-120418.pdf










One more thing...since this is only a single XP-G...could I do only around 3/4" to 1" length with 3 sets of 2 fins for cooling?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

your main problem will be mounting the optic , you will need to remove the holder from Tina and just seat the optic on the led .
so keeping it in the correct position will be a bit of an issue.

the Tina is OK not great not bad you would get a better beam if you stuck with a 20 mm optic


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

I have some double Tina XPGs in the works. Hopefully some beamshots coming...soon? I only seem to manage 10 or 15 minutes of work on them a couple times a week lately before I'm on to "more important" chores, so maybe not so soon :-(

The holders are annoying to work with. Difficult to pop the optic out, and _much_ modification to the base is needed to get it to sit over the wires and solder blobs, even on a simple 10mm square board. Perhaps it is meant for the 10mm round, or ??? I cannot see getting the holder to work with the Quazzle board.

Judging by Troutie's beam shots, the 20mm optics will give a better quality beam, at least with XPG. His XPE beamshots look better.

JZ


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Maybe a reflector then?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

*Runtime calculation*

Unless you use more than one of these I don't see it being too useful for mtbing. Walking or hiking, sure. You could even use it as an emergency backup incase your main light goes out during a ride.

Your hex tripple is pretty small already. I don't see the value in trying to make something even smaller when you reduce the light output by 66%.

Here's how to calcualate run time:
First calculate the Battery WattHrs:
Battery Capacity x Battery Voltage (2.5AHr x 7.4V = 18.5WattHrs)

Then, calculate the LED Watts:
LED Current x Forward Voltage / Driver Efficiency (1.1A x 3.5V / .96) = 4.01Watts)

Now divide the battery watt hours by the led watts to get run time:
(18.5 / 4.01 = *4.6Hrs*)

Note:
- I used amps instead of milliamps, just divide mA by 1000 to get A.
- Be sure to use the forward voltage appropriate for the current you're driving the LED at, can be found on the datasheet from Cree.
- This is just an estimate, your actual runtime will likely be less due to many factors.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I think it may depend on the trail that I will be frequenting...but I see your point. I was however impressed with my U**Fire R5 from DX. I could have definitely ridden with that strapped to my helmet if it were a tad less "spotty". Maybe I can either find a happy medium on the optics...or just build it into an EDC flashlight.

The R5 is quite the little emitter...but going from a dual P7 setup...I do agree that I may be a little under-gunned on my normal local trail network.



I was somewhat considering doing a bar mount with a floodier beam and having it pointed close in front for the slow stuff...and still running the triple on the helmet. I may instead...do a triple on the helmet and P7 bars.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Thanks for the calculations too...I'll permanently file those!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Put your Triple XPG on the bars and do a triple XPE R3 on the helmet When Quazzle has them in stock .
and sell the P7 you wont regret it and will have a real good set up .

Jmitchell13 speaks good advise but dont let that stop you doing the single you will enjoy the build. and have a good little backup light .:thumbsup:


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> Put your Triple XPG on the bars and do a triple XPE R3 on the helmet When Quazzle has them in stock.


This is exactly what I have in mind for my setup.



troutie-mtb said:


> Jmitchell13 speaks good advise but dont let that stop you doing the single you will enjoy the build. and have a good little backup light .:thumbsup:


Yea. This is purly my opinion, coming from someone who has build a few lights already. If you decide to build a single it will certainly be a fun learning experience. I'm sure you'll find a use for it somewhere. Heck, you could put a red led on there and use it as a tail light.


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## crewcabrob (Nov 5, 2007)

I actually like the idea of having a small light like this. I agree that running on 1 light with 350 lumens doesn't seem like much right now, but just a few years ago that would be a ton of light.

I plan on running more than 1 of these lights when Quazzle gets his housings solidified. I might also run a tripple too, but having more than one light makes a lit of sense to me. Far less prone to have all of you lights fail at once if at all.

I actually think three of these lights (1000+ lumens) would be more than enough for most riders; me included. But I'm keeping an open mind to running a tripple on my helmet or dual tripples on the bar and one of these singles on my helmet. 

I'm building up my battery packs right now with the 18650 AW 2600mah cells and regular trailtech connectors for compatibility. I could run two of these lights off of 2 cells and have plenty of runtime for most of my rides. I also ordered a 4 cell holder for longer rides. 

My biggest issue is this: just about the time I can get all of my parts and have them assembled, some new emitter will be out and we will all be drooling to get it. I guess that is why I am going with individual cells, chargers and holders now. At least I won't have to repurchase everything all over again.

Rob


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I think if you had 2x triples on the bars...they'd swallow up the single on the helmet. I'm sure a triple on the bars and a triple R3 helmet (as suggested above) would be a killah setup!!

I'm not even finished with my first triple and contemplating my next 2 builds.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

chelboed said:


> I'm not even finished with my first triple and contemplating my next 2 builds.


HA! It's a sickness we have. Unfortunatly there is no cure.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Since I had already ordered some 3/4" (19mm) hex bar for this project...I'm going to stick with the Tina for now. I'm going to use an o-ring between the optics and lens...and a snap ring on top to hold the guts in. It will be modeled alot after Troutie's bar-mount hex light.

I've found some 17.5mm snap rings. I still need to source a 16mm lens. I could use the 17 from flashlightlens.com and sand it down on the edges...but I'd rather not.

Sorry for crap pics...taken in dim lighting with phone.

I'll probably try to "step down" the flat hole with a lathe so I can seat the MCPCB and still have room for the 16.1mm optics.

Here's my plan:


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> ...I'm going to stick with the Tina for now. I'm going to use an o-ring between the optics and lens...and a snap ring on top to hold the guts in. It will be modeled alot after Troutie's bar-mount hex light.


Hi. Tina is a nice choice, I support it. The housing idea looks solid too. :thumbsup:

I have designed L31 to be used in a housing like this:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Is that a reflector or optics?

I figured somewhere around 3 sq in would be enough to cool...ample?


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Just curious, have you actually received your Lux-RC L312 single?

**


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> Is that a reflector or optics?
> I figured somewhere around 3 sq in would be enough to cool...ample?


I use acryl/PC lenses for my lights. They give much better spot with marginal blinding effect.

As for the housing heat dissipation ability, check this one:









It's about 1'' (25mm) in diameter and dissipates about 4.2-4.5W heating up to 75C at room temperature (still air).
L312 dissipates a bit less so the same housing is ok for it.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

scar said:


> Just curious, have you actually received your Lux-RC L312 single?


+1

Not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios but...I'm curious as well...I can't think of a gentler way to ask... here goes...

Has anyone seen or received actual product of any kind from LUX-RC?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

scar said:


> Just curious, have you actually received your Lux-RC L312 single?
> **


I guess no coz I didn't released it yet.  The good news that the bulk parts delivery just passed customs clearing and I anticipate to resume production on Mon-Tue. All prepaid parts will be sent ASAP with the highest priority.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> Has anyone seen or received actual product of any kind from LUX-RC?


the first production plan was just 10pcs of each. It has been sold out in 1 day. This time I plan to produce about 500-1000pcs


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Patience, people...;0)


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Kind of thought that was the case. Good luck.



***


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

scar said:


> Kind of thought that was the case. Good luck.
> 
> ***


So are you saying he's trying to take the money and run?

He delivered here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=616199

What's with the skepticism?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> What's with the skepticism?


Quazzle has been posting on this forum for ~10 months with various products and nobody has posted about actually having received anything until today. Might be that nobody ordered anything from him until crewcabrob, I don't know. I am glad to hear that someone has gotten product from Quazzle. It helps me feel more confident that when I order something I'll get it.

(edit: fixed some grammar errors)


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

With that many units to sell maybe consider getting an ad in the classifieds section here on MTBR.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*Sorry, but I am really, really confused*

About a week ago -


> Originally posted by Quazzle
> _MC stands for "mode control". A regular L33.2* (wthich is available now)* exhibits just a single maxumum mode._


Then just 2 days ago -


> Originally posted by Quazzle
> _ok, the bad news is that all parts I'm impatiently waiting for are still delaying. *L332, L332MC and L332 XP-E R3 are still out of stock*. Sorry_.


Then just today regarding the L312 single -


> Originally posted by Quazzle
> _I guess no coz I didn't released it yet._


I can't figure out if he is coming or going????



> Originally posted by chelboed
> _So are you saying he's trying to take the money and run?_


I honestly don't know how you got that out of my post, but *I really do not appreciate* you taking my post and twisting it into something that you may be thinking!:madmax:

Here is my post -


> Originally Posted by scar
> _Kind of thought that was the case. Good luck._


What I was trying to say (maybe I should have been more clear) is that I hadn't recalled anybody receiving anything from Quazzle (until today). I know how consumed one can get with a light design and have seen the efforts you and several others have put into designs based on Quazzle's unit(s). I was wishing you luck in that all of your time and effort turns how you are hoping it to.



> Originally posted by chelboed
> _What's with the skepticism?_


Sorry but I am a skeptical person by nature. I don't believe anything until someone can prove it to me, show it me, or hear from multiple people that something is true. I have been posting in this forum for about 4 years now and I can't tell you how many people I have seen come on here and claim they are going to build a light that is going to blow the socks off of everyone and nothing every materializes. At my work, I have seen many, many designs that look incredible on paper but that is as far as they ever get. So yes, I am skeptical.

As I said above, I really hope all of your hard work and energy work out for you as you are planning, and I truly mean that. :thumbsup:



> Originally posted by odtexas
> _ With that many units to sell maybe consider getting an ad in the classifieds section here on MTBR._


I couldn't agree more.

To the moderators of this forum -
With all of the talk of prices and sales that have been going on in the other thread, Quazzle needs to purchase a classified ad.

***


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## crewcabrob (Nov 5, 2007)

Hi all,

First, I want to say that I have recieved my shipment from Quazzle. It was complete, functional and relativly quick given that he is in Russia and I'm in the middle of no-where.

I ordered 1 of the L30 lights with the bike/helmet mount. I also got the package of 3 optics and the additional cooler just for good measure. All of them arrived with professional packaging in a box that was stuffed full of packing foam.

Funny thing, on the morning I ordered my products from Quazzle, I mistakenly ordered 2 sets of optics. I of course only needed the one set, so I emailed him and let him know what I had done and asked him if he could correct the order. I had a partial refund in less than an hour via my Paypal account.

The lights is fabulous in it's design and quality. I couldn't be happier. I really wish that the brighter 350 lumen board was in it, but I can wait for that. I have a working solution right now I can live with.

I'm always worried when I purchase something outside of the USA. I may not have ordered if my initial purchase was going to over $250, but I'm generally willing to take a chance if the outlay is low. My total was somewhere around $110.

Rob


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

scar said:


> About a week ago -
> 
> Then just 2 days ago -
> 
> ...


I wouldn't have put that much effort into something that I didn't know for a fact would be able to come to fruition. If for some reason his doesn't pan out...I can still use an external driven triple from cutter.

So I'm not worried...but I have no doubt that Quazzle will deliver.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

My first attempt at running a lathe. I've never touched one before, hahaha.

I had to do a triple stepped hole...bottom is 14.7mm to fit quazzles single board...steps to 16.5mm for a Ledil Tina optic...steps out to 17mm for the UCL lens from flashlightlens.com...then it will step to 18mm for a snap ring to retain everything...O-ring between the optics and lens will keep a little pressure against it all.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Hey guys...Ledil Tina XP-E optics the same as XP-G?


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## zen bicycle (Mar 23, 2007)

yes they are, get the spot if possible, not the smooth spot for the XPG.

Different holders is the only change.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Finished the single:

This one uses a snap ring to retain the guts. I'm going to get a less obtrusive ring...but this was all I had available at the moment.

























Size:









And compared to the MS:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Oh...BTW...I ended up with 5.25 sq inches of surface area to cool it. Should in theory be ample to keep it at a good operating temp.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

Hi Chelboed! 
What if I'll post an article with you photos and some description on my site? 
You've done a great job!


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Looks good Chelboed, what are you doing for cable entry for the hex single?


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> This one uses a snap ring to retain the guts. I'm going to get a less obtrusive ring...but this was all I had available at the moment.


I used an o-ring on my dual MC-E light to retain the lens cover and reflector. I cut the groove so that the o-ring is slightly compressed (.15mm) between the groove on one side and the lens cover on the other. Lube up the ring and squeeze it into place. It also seals it up nicely.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

quazzle said:


> Hi Chelboed!
> What if I'll post an article with you photos and some description on my site?
> You've done a great job!


Have at it...my pic's are your pic's. Thanks.:thumbsup:


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

emu26 said:


> Looks good Chelboed, what are you doing for cable entry for the hex single?


Not too sure yet...I'm considering an "out-the-bottom" approach...though I could do a small hole out the back. The square one will be using a Lupine / Geo bar mount, so I'll prob. go out the bottom on that one...there's somewhat of a cable strain relief built-in to it.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> I used an o-ring on my dual MC-E light to retain the lens cover and reflector. I cut the groove so that the o-ring is slightly compressed (.15mm) between the groove on one side and the lens cover on the other. Lube up the ring and squeeze it into place. It also seals it up nicely.


Cool, man! I am going to stick with a snap ring so I can compress the O-Ring a bit and have some firm pressure against it. Do you have a pic of your design?


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Vancbiker said:


> I used an o-ring on my dual MC-E light to retain the lens cover and reflector. I cut the groove so that the o-ring is slightly compressed (.15mm) between the groove on one side and the lens cover on the other. Lube up the ring and squeeze it into place. It also seals it up nicely.


This is the same lens retainer I used on my design for Quazzle's 3x XPG engine. It seems to work really well, and I'm very happy with how it turned out. Now if Q will just get the mode control version out I'd be able to try it out...


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

chelboed said:


> Do you have a pic of your design?


Covered here...

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=578463


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I knew I'd run into a pickle with this little project, hahaha.

If it weren't for the fact that I've got a friend at work wanting this light in this size...I'd just scrap it and start over.

The consensus seems to be that the Tina optics are just "so-so"...nothing too special.

If I had just 1-2 more mm diameter, I'd try to squeeze a Carclo 20mm single in there, but there's just not enough room. Besides...if I'm going to go 20mm...I'm going to do a triple.

So...this is my first angle hole drilled in metal. I've done it in wood before, but metal proved to be a bit trickier....obviously!


















I'm also doing another custom mount.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

I'm done with the single and working on another small triple with a snap ring retainer instead of the facecap:

















































The 22.2mm triple (walls are 1mm thick and the snap ring section is only 0.5mm (yikes!)


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Do Quazzles emitters come with the carclo 20mm optics or is that something I will have to buy?


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I do not include optics by default coz many guys already have it or would like to change it. Please check it here. http://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/showcase/L30/order
I have 2 the most frequent 20mm triple lenses. Narrow and Frosted Mid.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

I have started my own thread about L31 development here
https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L31_beyond_all_sizes


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

quazzle said:


> I have started my own thread about L31 development here
> https://www.lux-rc.com/view.php?p=content/magazine/L31_beyond_all_sizes


You may want to edit that and say that I was able to squeeze in the 20mm Carclo optic. (fickle of me...but I was able to bore a shoulder for the carclo to rest on)


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

chelboed said:


> You may want to edit that and say that I was able to squeeze in the 20mm Carclo optic. (fickle of me...but I was able to bore a shoulder for the carclo to rest on)


ok. I'll update on the next occasion. I'll stick on 10mm small lenses trying to minimaze the light footprint.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)




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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

That really does look good. May I suggest you spin the retainer ring around so that the little bits you grab are at the top. They are less likely to leave annoying shadows when they are up in the trees.

Really nice work Ed


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Good suggestion, emu. Well thought out. I plan on shaving those eyelets down as well, but moving them to the top will be perfect. I plan to get some retaining rings like the ones on the Hope Pro II convertible hubs. They'll be less in the way.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Well...I'm not totally unimpressed with the Carclo 20. It gets the jobbie-job done.

F4
ISO 100
Daylight
6"
Just for a reference...here's my old MagicShine Beamshot:









Here's the L31 single XP-G with a 20mm Carclo optic:









































When I let it go for about 20min, it went from 34 ambient to around 61C. I turned on my fan on the lowest setting to mimic a leisurely pace through the woods and it quickly dropped down to 44C and stayed there.









GITD:


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

Some horizontal cuts might further improve the circulation.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Real life situation on the trail...it doesn't even reach the 44.5C. It's barely warm to touch.

Curious though...did you reply to the wrong thread b/c your CAD looks like the triple housing?


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

BTW...that looks insanely PIMP! I may have to do one of those with my XP-E board of Quazzle's.


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## phburns (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, this is the triple housing, sorry about the cross post.


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## chelboed (Jul 29, 2005)

Nah man...I'm glad ya did. I had thought about doing that to one at some point just to see how well it works, but now that I see how cool it looks...hmm...


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

This may, or may not improve air flow, not sure if the cross cuts will "disturb" the flow of air along longitudinal grooves but if you do the math, in the majority of cases this does not increase surface area.

It does look good though


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