# Getting the seatpost all the way down



## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Guys- I have a custom steel frame made by Tom Teasdale, 853 and OX-Platinum, and it was designed exactly for my style of riding, technical stuff. It has a very low standover height as I requested from him, and this _could_ be of great benefit when rolling down steep stuff, but there's a problem: the 410mm seatpost doesn't go all the way down, because it bumps up against the nubs where the water bottle bolts in the frame's seat tube are. I tried removing the bolts, but they are not the issue- it's the little nubs in there.
Reason tells me that what I need to do is send the frame back to Tom and let him do something about this. Is that even possible? Or am I doomed to having a too-long seatpost that interferes with my ability to ride down steep stuff?


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Your'e doomed. I think what you are asking is unreasonable. Buy a joplin.
Do you use all of the 410 seat post? could you use the 367?
Do you really drop you post before every descent?
Could you slot the bottom of the seat tube enough to go around the bosses? That would have no effect on the seat tubes performance as long as the top of the slot doesn't come above the bottom of the top tube in its extended postition.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Can you cut the seatpost while still maintaining minimum insertion seatpost depth into the frame? If so, do this.

If not, sure, you could send the frame to Tom or any frame builder and have the water bottle inserts removed and the hole in the frame filled. Note that this isn't a warranty issue nor a design problem. Also unless you specified that you wanted to use a 410 mm post and wanted to be able to fully insert it into the frame in which he wouldn't have installed water bottle bosses on the seat tube. You're likely into paying for the frame modification and a repaint.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

What I am asking for is not unreasonable, and I am not implying it should be done for free. I did state when having the frame built that I was going to be doing some trials-type riding. The frame otherwise is pretty rad- no one else out there could be me anything like it for the same price.
I don't drop the post before every descent, only down really steep stuff, where getting the post down another 80mm or so is a real benefit.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

If the seat post used is triple butted, you need to call tom and ask him what the butting is at the bottom end. My guess is it will be too thick at the bottom to let the seat post all the way down anyway.

Is there a chance you could use a smaller seat tube with a shim at the clamp and have it be enough to slip by the bosses? Thomson makes down to a 25mm

It may take a combination of these ideas to get this to work for you. 
You could drill out the bosses yourself with a 1/4" bit, this would leave the outer ring intact with the paint still on and you could use a clamp on cage to cover the hole.

What size is your post currently?

here is one idea; http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=37340&category=272


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Thanks for the tips- I will call Tom and ask him about the butting. My current post is 410mm by 27.0mm.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*How much of the post is in the frame now?*

If it's more than 75mm or so, you can cut off any excess, and you'll gain quite a bit of ability to lower the saddle that way. I am guessing you just have way more seatpost than you need.

-Walt


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

I do have a fair amount of extra post, but the frame was built to have low a ton of standover clearance, so I'd like to leave the post as long as possible so that there is a lot of support. I had a 330mm post before and I felt like it was a little short.
Will drilling out the bosses affect the frame's integrity much? Is it even really possible? As I understand it, 853 and OX-Platinum are extremely hard. But maybe not as hard as a drill bit- you guys would know best.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

uphiller said:


> Will drilling out the bosses affect the frame's integrity much? QUOTE]
> 
> It will affect the integrity less than if you remove it completely, by drilling just the threaded portion away you will be leaving the outer, painted rim still brazed to the tube. The boss is not hardend and will drill easily. Use cutting oil and a new bit, you don't want it to grab and spin the boss away from the tube.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Ok...*

Having more than 3" or so of post in the frame is not useful unless there is a TON of seat tube extending above the toptube. As long as the post extends below the TT/ST joint, you are good to go. Cut off everything else.

-Walt



uphiller said:


> I do have a fair amount of extra post, but the frame was built to have low a ton of standover clearance, so I'd like to leave the post as long as possible so that there is a lot of support. I had a 330mm post before and I felt like it was a little short.
> Will drilling out the bosses affect the frame's integrity much? Is it even really possible? As I understand it, 853 and OX-Platinum are extremely hard. But maybe not as hard as a drill bit- you guys would know best.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

I'd like to see a picture of this bike.


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## noot (Jul 7, 2008)

Every bike I've ever owned with seat-tube bosses has this exact problem.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

Um, there's no other way to do seat tube bidon mounts. You drill two holes in the frame, you braze the mounts INTO the frame. There's no 'problem' with the design, the 'problem' is that if you want a 410mm post to be able to be inserted all the way down, *you don't put mounts on the seat tube.*


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Thylacine said:


> Um, there's no other way to do seat tube bidon mounts. You drill two holes in the frame, you braze the mounts INTO the frame. There's no 'problem' with the design, the 'problem' is that if you want a 410mm post to be able to be inserted all the way down, *you don't put mounts on the seat tube.*


Surface mount, either a threaded stud or a stand-off boss (rack mount). Have seen, installed and used both. Can still distort the tube enough to prevent the post from moving past.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Walt said:


> Having more than 3" or so of post in the frame is not useful unless there is a TON of seat tube extending above the toptube. As long as the post extends below the TT/ST joint, you are good to go. Cut off everything else.
> 
> -Walt


Agreed. And if the seat tube has an internal sleeve or is internally butted for the post, any of the post extending below that adds no support


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Thylacine said:


> Um, there's no other way to do seat tube bidon mounts. You drill two holes in the frame, you braze the mounts INTO the frame. There's no 'problem' with the design, the 'problem' is that if you want a 410mm post to be able to be inserted all the way down, *you don't put mounts on the seat tube.*


It's easy to forget that you people here are _experts_ and that the people who post asking questions _aren't_. You all have years of building experience- I have none. To you, the idea that braze-ons stick out inside of the frame goes without saying- you've built frames and spent time looking inside of them. I haven't.
For the record, I did not request seat tube braze-ons. But there they are.
I know now which framebuilders expect their non-framebuilder customers to have perfect foresight of the ins and outs of building a custom frame.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Points understood. And I'm not pro frame builder.

But...had you told the builder exactly what you wanted to do (e.g., be able to insert a 410 mm post all the way in the seat tube), the builder would have designed and advised accordingly based on their experience. It helps to be an informed customer, too.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Your solution is simple.*

Ok, I'll lay it out for you one more time. There is an easy solution that does not require drilling anything:

-Recognize that having more than 3" of post in your frame is structurally useless.
-Put your saddle as high as you'll ever run it, mark the point where it inserts into the frame with electrical tape.
-Remove seatpost from frame, measure 3" below the tape, and cut off any excess.
-Reinstall post, remove tape, and enjoy your vastly improved seat-lowering capabilities.

Alternately:
-Buy a post that is shorter. You had mentioned using a 330 - measure to see if you've got enough post in the frame with that post, and if so, use it.

-Walt



uphiller said:


> It's easy to forget that you people here are _experts_ and that the people who post asking questions _aren't_. You all have years of building experience- I have none. To you, the idea that braze-ons stick out inside of the frame goes without saying- you've built frames and spent time looking inside of them. I haven't.
> For the record, I did not request seat tube braze-ons. But there they are.
> I know now which framebuilders expect their non-framebuilder customers to have perfect foresight of the ins and outs of building a custom frame.


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## Thylacine (Feb 29, 2004)

uphiller said:


> It's easy to forget that you people here are _experts_ and that the people who post asking questions _aren't_. You all have years of building experience- I have none. To you, the idea that braze-ons stick out inside of the frame goes without saying- you've built frames and spent time looking inside of them. I haven't.
> For the record, I did not request seat tube braze-ons. But there they are.
> I know now which framebuilders expect their non-framebuilder customers to have perfect foresight of the ins and outs of building a custom frame.


To be frank, I know Teesdale's work and he's a 'utility' builder. Solid bikes, not pretty, a bit of a budget buy and maybe a good intro to custom....I dunno....but I'm never surprised when things like this crop up because I bet there is no solid design drawing specifying everything that you signed off on, right? And if you're a 'utility' builder, you put two waterbottles on because that's what's standard, unless you're told otherwise.

It's bad communication from both of you, and bad research on your behalf, and bad procedure. It's not about 'foresight', it's about basic knowledge. When you screwed those little waterbottle bolts into _any frame you've ever had_, did you think they went into the seat tube or into some Tardis like space in another dimension?

Honestly, if you want pedantic levels of detail, Teesdale was probably not your guy.

Anyway, just listen to Walt. He's the good cop, I'm the bad.


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

As mentioned above, just buy a Joplin post that you can lower at the flick of a switch. It may be less than ideal to you, but I think all the other ideas suggested in here also sound less than ideal to you.

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't have a 16" seat tube with a 410 post largely exposed and expect it to disappear all the way in.


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## febikes (Jan 28, 2011)

Thylacine said:


> To be frank, I know Teesdale's work and he's a 'utility' builder.


To be frank I think this is not really helpful from the peanut gallery. The Teesdale website describes two bottle cages as standard issue for cross country frames. I don't think we have seen his side and calling him a "utility" builder does not seem helpful.

If the customer wanted something that was not standard issue in a custom frame then both sides need to talk about things. If the frame is not what the customer wanted then the issue is largely between the customer and the builder provided both sides are acting in good faith.

So far on this thread many people have provided ideas that would let you do what you need without changes to the frame. Basically options range from a small cut of the seat post, getting a fancy dropping post, learning to ride with a little bit of seat post above the frame, etc. Most options seems reasonable to me.

If you must have seatpost down all the way see what Mr. Teesdale can do for you. If you are not happy with his response let us know what he said and why you are not happy. It would be sad if your new build did not work out due to one side or the other being unreasonable.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

I would not say Tom is a utility builder. He does stock frames with standard geometry, but my bike has 16" chainstays that fit quite a large tire, and it has a custom-fab reinforced rear disc mount. I am 95% happy with the bike- and I would definitely go to him again. People seem to have gotten the idea that this a complaint against his framebuilding- that's not so. His welds are good but not amazing, the paint job is a little prone to scratching, but he does make a great frame for well under what others would charge. I remember getting quoted 1700 from other builders, he did it for around 900. 
He did give me a complete drawing of the frame; I didn't think of the post issue because on my other bikes the post never ran into the H2O bolts. It was just an oversight. (I think we have established that much.)
I do think the frame needs a shade more than 3" of post in it, as the seat tube extends past the top tube a little longer than is usual. 
Tom advised to me trim the post- I gave myself a margin of error and saw that I can easily whack 2" from the post, and then cut notch in the post. I think this will solve my problem.


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

uphiller said:


> I would not say Tom is a utility builder. He does stock frames with standard geometry, but my bike has 16" chainstays that fit quite a large tire, and it has a custom-fab reinforced rear disc mount. I am 95% happy with the bike- and I would definitely go to him again. People seem to have gotten the idea that this a complaint against his framebuilding- that's not so. His welds are good but not amazing, the paint job is a little prone to scratching, but he does make a great frame for well under what others would charge. I remember getting quoted 1700 from other builders, he did it for around 900.
> He did give me a complete drawing of the frame; I didn't think of the post issue because on my other bikes the post never ran into the H2O bolts. It was just an oversight. (I think we have established that much.)
> I do think the frame needs a shade more than 3" of post in it, as the seat tube extends past the top tube a little longer than is usual.
> Tom advised to me trim the post- I gave myself a margin of error and saw that I can easily whack 2" from the post, and then cut notch in the post. I think this will solve my problem.


Cool, let us know if that fixes. FWIW, on my personal frames, I tend to put the bottle bosses as high as possible on the tubes and still be able to get the bottles out. It doesn't look "cool" but it does make it easy to reach the bottles and that's more important to me than the way it looks. He may have the same approach, I don't know. At any rate, 2" should get you a lot lower.

One thing I'd caution you on with this is for sure don't stick the post down as far as it goes and then tighten the post. Pull it back up a bit after it bottoms on the boss or you'll risk really messing something up. In other words, if you're DHing in the saddle and the post slips and your weight is on that boss essentially fully on the boss, well, it would be bad--like crossing the streams of the proton packs in Ghostbusters.


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Yeah, I had thought of something like that: the now slotted post is all the way down, I bail and the post twist inside the frame, with the back of the water bottle inside the slot. What happens?


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## jay_ntwr (Feb 15, 2008)

uphiller said:


> Yeah, I had thought of something like that: the now slotted post is all the way down, I bail and the post twist inside the frame, with the back of the water bottle inside the slot. What happens?


That seems like sort of an outlier type scenario because you had to have the post all the way down and you have to crash and you have to have the saddle twist and it has to be a big enough crash to hurt it, but yeah, could make a mess if all that happens. I suspect that may not be the biggest of your concerns in that scenario anyway.


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