# When dogs attack



## Bike Nazi (Apr 3, 2004)

Anyone get chased down by "freindly dogs"? Hey I love dogs just as much as the next guy but I had a couple of instances on the trail with peoples unleashed dogs tearing after me. One I easily out ran but the other I had to kick out my back wheel at, I was trying for a skewer to cranial shot but had to settle for a tire to snout shot that reestablished the alpha pecking order. The other day I was cruising by a couple of huge leashed pit bulls on an uphill that luckily were not too interested in me, that would of been bad.


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## leximog (Jan 30, 2004)

*I don't...*

...love dogs just as much as the next guy...I think they are a PITA at best. But then again, I don't hunt.

Dogs, as in "love me, love my dog". I'll have to pass on that one.

I do respect dog owners who keep to themselves, as most do. I have met plenty of friendly pooches, and got on with them too. It is the rest that spoil the whole dog experience for me. Sh1t on the lawn, incessant barking, drooling over my food, etc. None of that would be tolerated if they were human, but somehow we are supposed to not mind?

On the road they give me some, but I've found they only really understand one thing, the "bigger dog" theory. So if I can't outrun them, or are low on coffee, I'll just have it out with them, chainring to tooth. I noticed that the most troublesome dogs seem to respond to threats of violence, as if it has been part of their training. Funny that. The worst part of my approach is having the owner show up and lamely say "he's a good dog, he won't bite", then give me a dirty look, while his mongrel is still trying to attack me!

The worst time I had was when I was confronted by a pack of dogs, that wasn't pretty. I knew they would go for it if they could, so as soon as the leader charged I did the same, connected right under the jaw with my kick and sent him flying onto his back. The rest got the message. Regardless, it was a PITA, having to get into an adrenaline state, just because some lazy slob can't be bothered to chain fido up.


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

I have been chased and decided to stop instead... Usually they lose interest, if not then Def tec pepper spray... Dog biscuits work too...When you stop...I was chased once tried to outrun dog, I crossed an intersection and wham dog got nailed by a farm truck...That sucked I like dogs...I have even grabbed dog by collar and wlaked to owner door if home..and let the owner there dog almost got hit by car.. A Lie but it keeps them aware of thier dogs wherabouts.


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## msclydesdale (Jan 16, 2004)

I keep a water bottle on my bike for dogs. A facefull of water is just enough to distract most dogs from chasing me.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

leximog said:


> None of that would be tolerated if they were human, but somehow we are supposed to not mind?


100% agree. I get so pissed at dog owners that let their aggressive dogs off the leash. I think they get a power trip out if it or something 

I think mace is the way to go, but unfortunately, you would have to disable the dog with mace before you could get that close to the owner  .

On the other hand I always make a point of thanking people who get their dogs under control before they get anywhere near me. I don't mind it if they're off the leash if their owners are responsible and aware people.


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## leximog (Jan 30, 2004)

*dogs attacking child in child trailer?*

Hi, Leximog is here next to me to ensure I do not type
anything mortifying 
I'm Mrs. Leximog [Leximeg, if you will] and we have
a little (1-yr-old) Lexisprog who will be accompanying his
dad in a bike trailer we just got.
Question: there are some truly obnoxious dogs at the end of the
street who chase my husband and bite his shoes, etc.,
has anyone ever heard of a dog lunging at a baby in
an open bike trailer? A baby is right at their level,
strapped in, pink and fleshy, you'd think a baby would
be a good target.
These hillbillies have been keeping their dog off the
streets the last couple days due to a royal bollocking
my man gave them (not to mention driving our station
wagon right at one of them, nearly squashing it,
one of the dogs that is, right in front of its owner) 
(OK, OK, I won't tell them any more, dear)
(LIES, ALL LIES, shouts Leximog next to me here)
;D
but I doubt this situation will continue, as these *******s
never keep those dogs tied up for long, maybe if anyone
has ever heard of this danger, would you post on this topic?
Leximeg


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

Do you live in a county area or in city limits.. Is there a leash law? I would turn those #$^%&%* for dangerous animals, Letting them run at large etc...

I would talk to the local officer/deputy and see what can be done.

Can the neighbors back your claims? 

The humane society can help also, because technically ( straw grasping here) animal neglect is going on. 

Hope this gives you an avenue? Good Luck


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## Bike Nazi (Apr 3, 2004)

*Dogs are like people*



leximog said:


> Hi, Leximog is here next to me to ensure I do not type
> anything mortifying
> I'm Mrs. Leximog [Leximeg, if you will] and we have
> a little (1-yr-old) Lexisprog who will be accompanying his
> ...


some are A-holes some aren't (mostly they are a reflection of their owners)
Leximog, My recommendation to your problem, covert dog assination. Borrow a compound bow, cross bow or sword from someone you trust and in the dark of night, dressed in your finest black lycra, sneak over there and erase that bugger and properly dispose of the carcass.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

I love dogs. But dogs are IDIOTS. Letting them wreak havoc and run leashless is entirely the fault of the owner and is incredibly dangerous to the dogs. Back home (up north) I notice that dogs are leashed or fenced FAR more often than where I live now (mtns in north carolina). All viciousness aside, I have come close to hitting many happy, playful pups who just ran into the street, and have had the sad job of dragging a dog that someone else hit out of the road, reading the tags on the collar and calling the owner to inform them that fido had climbed up the curtain and joined the choir invisible, so to speak. 

WTF is the big deal? It isn't that hard to take care of your dog. If you let it run loose and it comes to a bad end (either by threatening someone or by being hit) it is no one's fault but the owner's. If you can't/don't want to take care of them, don't own them. Seems so simple.

And regarding the drooling thing, etc... Of course those habits wouldn't be tolerated by humans. Last time I checked (my knowledge of biology and comparative anatomy could be rusty) dogs weren't humans. Nor were cats, bears, emus, rhinos, breakfast cereals or orangutans (can anyone tell what I've been watching recently?). I fail to see how falling short of human standards of behavior is any logical argument against keeping domesticated animals, but to each his or her own. Hell, Babies do things that adults would be heavily penalized for. Doesn't seem to keep people from keeping and loving them.


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## leximog (Jan 30, 2004)

*it's a question of ethics*



Bike Nazi said:


> some are A-holes some aren't (mostly they are a reflection of their owners)
> Leximog, My recommendation to your problem, covert dog assination. Borrow a compound bow, cross bow or sword from someone you trust and in the dark of night, dressed in your finest black lycra, sneak over there and erase that bugger and properly dispose of the carcass.


I cannot deny, such thoughts lurk in that dark chambers of the heart...

There is an ethical dilemma here. I don't really have issues with the dogs, as such.

Hell, there is nothing dearer to my heart than the ability ot express one's true nature, I value it highly. I agree with Archdukeferdinand, dogs are inherently dumb, they do their best but they are working from a low base. Why punish them when they are just "expressing themselves".

By striking at the dog(s) you are really substituting them for the real target, the slack-jawed owner. I'm working on it, a little psy-warfare going on here, and I think I have the upper hand so far. I mean, how hard can it be to outwit a person of such stature?

However that does not answer the leximeg's basic question, which is, will a badly trained dog go for a trailer's occupant, or is she being overly protective?

I am the pilot here, and I'm also very protective, as you can imagine. For me, I just want him ("littlebeast") to have good experiences, with both riding and meeting dogs, which he loves, btw.

Here's a more general question re-posed from my pov.

If a mutt runs at me, I know what to do to defend myself, but with trailer in tow, it is a different matter. What would you do in the same siutuation?


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## Haroow (Mar 10, 2004)

leximog said:


> I cannot deny, such thoughts lurk in that dark chambers of the heart...
> 
> There is an ethical dilemma here. I don't really have issues with the dogs, as such.
> 
> ...


my other answer, if it comes after you and the tike in trailer. Then defend your kin and kill that sum bieatch...then sue the owner of the animal...It would be fairly difficutl to out run a dog with a trailer in tow, and then if some horrible accident occured where your child got hurt becaue of your actions , I feel sorry...However most courts will hold owners liable for any harm that becomes your or you child becuase they failed to restrain it. The dog will chase if given op...natural instinct.. Use your best judgment... I still say call the cops and make formal written complaint...


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Archdukeferdinand said:


> I fail to see how falling short of human standards of behavior is any logical argument against keeping domesticated animals, but to each his or her own. Hell, Babies do things that adults would be heavily penalized for. Doesn't seem to keep people from keeping and loving them.


The drooling I can live with, but name another being that can get away with the aggressive behavior that some dogs do. If I ran up to someone at full charge and started gnashing my teeth in their face, yelling etc, I would be locked up. If a wild animal was caught behaving in such a way it would be put down ASAP. So why is it that dogs can carry on in such a way?

It also really pisses me off when I see dogs chasing/attacking squirrels and the owners do F all.

If at all possible, I'd talk to the owners and try to reason with them, maybe bring your kid along so they feel a little shame. You don't want to start WWIII by killing the dog. Is it possible to make friends with the dog? Give it some food and play stick or something?


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## cherrybomber (Mar 25, 2004)

we dont have that problem where i come from.... If the dog gives you problem you just go after it and eat it with soy sauce and vinegar marinade and a couple cloves of garlic ......
joke! joke! 

a loud : "no" in your best command voice works. or you can spit at it using the water from your cambelbak.... a cleat to the face also works but only in last minute circumstances since you dont want the dogs owner to chase after you, next time around.


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Steve71 said:


> The drooling I can live with, but name another being that can get away with the aggressive behavior that some dogs do. If I ran up to someone at full charge and started gnashing my teeth in their face, yelling etc, I would be locked up. If a wild animal was caught behaving in such a way it would be put down ASAP. So why is it that dogs can carry on in such a way?
> 
> It also really pisses me off when I see dogs chasing/attacking squirrels and the owners do F all.


Yeah, I think we agree on this more than we disagree. I don't think that dogs charging people should be tolerated. But when it happens, you have to blame the owner. Part of caring for a pet is knowing its aggression levels, anticipating potentially hazardous situations and avoiding them. Keeping your pet on a leash solves that problem pretty well. As for wild animals, they would only be put down if running amok in a city. As long as it isn't a habituated animal and is in the wilderness, aggressive behaviors are tolerated, and even to be expected if you surprise a bear or keep food in your tent, etc.

Chasing squirrels? Why does that bother you? What about cats chasing squirrels, killing birds, killing mice, etc? I'm afraid that I don't see a dog chasing a squirrel as a domesticated animal chasing a "wild" animal. Squirrels that live in the city are QUITE accustomed to interaction with humans and all varieties of pets. Dogs chasing them is not exactly going to interfere with their reproduction, feeding, or anything else.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, I just think that dogs are always the responsibility of the owner. Dogs are aggressive due to conditioning, or more rarely due to breeding. As an owner you know beforehand if the dog you're getting is an aggressive/territorial breed and the inherent risks in owning a dog like a pit bull or a husky.


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## Maniac (Dec 30, 2003)

LEximog,

I have seen dogs attack bike pulled trailers before...thankfully none of them had small children inside. 
I also agree with the fact that dogs are inherently dumb, but it is the *owner's* responsibility to educate the dog in proper behavior (similar to having a young child) and be aware of the leash laws in your area.
If my child was at risk of being attacked by a dog I would do ANYTHING to protect him, as I'm sure you would for your kid. If that means killing the dog in the owners presence...so be it. If it means covertly killing the dog then that is also acceptable. If you are caught it is only a misdemeanor offense with a fine....well worth it for the peace of mind.
Don't get me wrong here, I also love well trained dogs and I allow my kid interaction with them. But because some ******* doesn't want to train their dog to behave properly does not give them the right to put your family at risk.
Back in the 80's I used to be a roadie in Connecticut. Some of the guys on the team I rode with would take a piece of fishing pole, about 2.5' long, take off the eyelets and strap it to their downtube. A perfect dog weapon...it moves too fast for them to see, hurts like hell when it hits them and could also be used to put out an eye if that was necessary.
Unfortunately it is sad that a potentally good dog has to suffer because the owner is too lazy or stupid to train them right.


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## Pavlov's Dog (Jan 14, 2004)

*Going to the dogs . . .*

I've had dogs charge my jog stroller, but I carry an 18" stick in it. when I pull it they have always run away. I have heard some dogs will attack a person with a stick b/c they feel threatened.

As far as dealing with a re-occuring problem: My experience is that responsible people rarely cause you a problem, and change their behavior when it occasionally causes you a problem. For the rest there are courts and fines. Check with law enforcement about legal avenues that are available. Getting fined a few times can teach a lesson, and it also sends a message that you are willing to call the cops, where as just chewing someone out, kicking their dog, etc, could lead to retaliation. You don't want to escalate the situation and then have to explain to law enforcement why you thought kicking the dog, or punching the owner, seemed more reasonable than pursuing the problem legally.

I don't know the legal implications of pepper spray but it also seems like a good self-defense option, and a good way to teach your neighbors dogs not to mess with you.


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## adamlivi (Feb 8, 2004)

*Water & Amonia*

Mix water and amonia 50/50 in a water pistol ... keep it handy and shoot at the dogs as they approach ... aim for the nose ...

No permanant damage ... just think of it as helping to train the dog ... no anger or bitterness ... just doing you part and helping the absent owner do the right thing ... Its just the neighborly thing to do.

Adam


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## Brown_Teeth (Jan 15, 2004)

Amonia's so weak these days use it all best aim for the eyes we all got bad aim at those times and get the owner too! Anybody got a good SUV spray? The kind that shorts the cell phone in the dildos ear causing a coffin pile up?


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## RidgeRunner (Feb 26, 2004)

Try extracting the juice from some habanero peppers. One whiff of that and you'll be crying. Stick THAT in a water pistol... just don't get it on your hands, it'll burn like hellfire. 

I personally love dogs, and see no problem with dogs being unleashed AS LONG AS THE SITUATION PERMITS. One fine example of a situation that did not permit is when I was camping with my friends out in the wilderness, some pothead came down the trail and put the dog on the leash soon as they got to our camp... this was all fine and dandy, but soon as they got past us, they let it back off... then turned around later and came back through again, but failed to put the dog back on a leash, and it proceeded to bite my friend on the ankle. Then about 10 minutes later, it bit someone else badly a short ways downriver from our campsite. Needless to say, none of us were happy with that dog or its owner. 

My parents live out in the woods and we've never leashed a dog at the house, but my sis lives in a less remote environment, a typical neighborhood... whenever she walks her dog, it's not on a leash. She has a leash with her in case the dog misbehaves, but the lil mutt generally understands what to do and what not to do. Also, it helps that this particular dog is a short legged 35lb critter (tho with a serious bark), as opposed to the dog at my parents house being a 80-100lb golden retriever.


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## truman (Mar 23, 2004)

Lexi* - the answer here is training the beasts that vex you - before you put the temptation in front of them. What I suggest, is establishing a route past their domain, that you ride daily, UN-laden with your lexiprogeny. The trick here is to bait the little beggars out while you're still in a position of strength. Maybe take the trailer - empty - on these junkets.

When they come out to annoy/dine, let them have a shot of pepper spray. if pepper spray is illegal in your district, you might try a water bottle filled with water and powdered cayenne pepper, or the juice from a jar of tobasco peppers, et cetera. Hopefully, after a week or two of such flights, the dogs in question will come to realize the folly of chasing your trailer, and you can take your lexinipper out in peace.

I truly hope this helps.
I truly hope this helps.


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## Haste (Jan 20, 2004)

one thing u can do if a dog chases you and u r unable to sprint away from it, get off your bike and put the bike between you and the dog. an extra layer of protection and u can always wack the dog with a tires or something. hell, u could even pull you seat out and use you seat/seatpost as a weapon! you could probably swing that thing pretty hard...
and if its a gang of dogs u can always swing the bike around and take them out matrix style!


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## leximog (Jan 30, 2004)

*good stuff*

This thread is a mine of information for me (and others, I suspect). Thank you dog people!

Meantime, the offending mutts are chained (on pain of a $25-a time fine), and littlebeast (lexisprog) is riding in style, and incidentally loves the dogs he meets on our rounds, so far so good.

I do think I'll get myself a bottle of ammonia though (;


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## ghr7891 (Feb 27, 2004)

I think dog walkers are just as bad. At my local park, a lot of people walk their dogs, and I love dogs so I dont mind. But when 4 of the walkers line up, blocking the entire trail, so they can talk, then I get pissed. One time I was behind a group like that and I asked them politely move so I could go, they actually said "hold on we are in the middle of a conversation" so I said "just let me through" in a very polite voice, and again they said no, that just put me past the line. I blurted out "Get the f*ck out of my way I'm comin through!" then I just went right through them. They were rude as hell and they totally deserved that, I am a very non-confrotational person and I like to mind my own buisness, especially on the trail, but some people are just to much.


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## ahaines (May 2, 2004)

I love dogs, i have one as a pet and its very well loved in the household. It is always on a leash or fenced in area, and its a "good dog".

But these people in the parks who just run/walk/bike with them unleashed piss me off. I have embarked on a campaign on my local trails to remind dog owners to keep them on there leash's.

The parks I ride in clearly state on all entrance's that dogs must be on a leash. Unless the person walk's in from no mans land they have to see it.

My current strategy is, when I see a owner with a unleashed dog. I simply state a few of the following phrase's 
"If your dog comes near me, I'm will kill it, so use a leash"
"You have a leash in your hand, are you to stupid to figure out how to use it" 

Or anything else that pops up depending on the exact situation. I have got varied response's from the dog owners. The following just blew me away.

I'm riding down a path along the river heading back to the exit, And this guy has his medium sized dog off the leash, with his leash in his hand. So I say "you have the leash in your hand are you to stupid to figure out how to use it" he responds 

"its my god given right as a American to keep my dog off a leash" 

This made me stop my bike say excuse me, he went into this rant about how his dog is a good dog never bites blah blah blah. As he is ranting his dog comes running towards us, I tell him, if your dog even tries to bite me i will kill the dog as its my right to defend myself. He rants again how its a good dog blah blah blah. I'm watching the dog and it looks pissed at me... It runs over to me starts barking and growling and goes for my ankle with some anger in its bark. It didn't bite me as i just did a little jump and it missed. Now the owner is like OMG she never does that blah blah blah. She does the same thing again, enough is enough of this guy and his PITA unleashed out of control dog. On the 3rd time the dog goes for me I reach down grab it by its neck with both hands with just enough force to shut it up and most likely cut off its air supply. 

Turn to the owner and say "would you like your dog back broken or unbroken" He pleads with me not to hurt the dog as she has never acted like this blah blah blah... He ask me please just hold her like you are now I will fix this. A reach's into his back pocket, I'm thinking oh god he has a gun and now is going to shoot me. But no what does this guy pull out of his back pocket, Yes folks a muzzle. 

So for the guy who says its his "its my god given right as a American to keep my dog off a leash" as has a "good dog", yet he has a leash and a muzzle on his person... 

Could I have handled this whole thing differently of course, just by not stopping would have been the way to go. But folks I really needed to know what the whacko thought. I just needed to know... 

And no, i would not want to "kill" any dog, of course not. I just feel such a extreme statement might actually get the dog owner to think of possible ramifications if his beloved dog does something he should not.


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## Rainman (Apr 18, 2004)

I am a doggy owner, always have been... and I love dogs.. but can't stand the dumb idiots who have NFI how to train their dog or even care if it is trained or not.

In my opinion, it it usually [99%] the owners who should cop the blame for their dogs misbehavior, and not the poor dog.

However, as a rider, I too have been confronted by untrained and unleashed dogs on different occasions, and I learned early the best defence is AMMONIA in a spray bottle.

Just squirt them in the nose with it, and I absolutely guarantee that the most determined mutt will stop dead in it's tracks, back up and run away.

Dogs noses are very sensitive, much more so than ours. A full-on blast of cloudy ammonia sprayed on that sensitive nose will stop them immediately, and make them forget all about biting or threatening you or yours.

It works every time.

Oh yeah.............if you can, spray the damn dumb owner first!!

R.


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## SIGMA (Jan 30, 2004)

*If this is true,*



ghr7891 said:


> I think dog walkers are just as bad. At my local park, a lot of people walk their dogs, and I love dogs so I dont mind. But when 4 of the walkers line up, blocking the entire trail, so they can talk, then I get pissed. One time I was behind a group like that and I asked them politely move so I could go, they actually said "hold on we are in the middle of a conversation" so I said "just let me through" in a very polite voice, and again they said no, that just put me past the line. I blurted out "Get the f*ck out of my way I'm comin through!" then I just went right through them. They were rude as hell and they totally deserved that, I am a very non-confrotational person and I like to mind my own buisness, especially on the trail, but some people are just to much.


then you need to move. I have ridden trails from georgia to pisgah and have never met an A- hole like that yet. most of the dog owners i see are holding them by the collar if they are not leashed. In six years i have not been chased.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

*Don't start **** with dogs for no reason ...*



ahaines said:


> ...
> 
> My current strategy is, when I see a owner with a unleashed dog. I simply state a few of the following phrase's
> "If your dog comes near me, I'm will kill it, so use a leash"
> ...


OK, well you might want to try another strategy. How about just breezing by without antagonizing potentially dangerous people.

The way I read your encounter, there wasn't a problem until you STARTED one. And get angry and steamed with a dog's owner is an excellent way to make yourself a target in the pooches eye.

It IS possible to deal with folks like that. But you really have to be friendly and ask nicely. It also helps to make friends with fido instead of getting belligerent. Dog's can literally smell fear and aggression. They can smell it from both YOU and their owner. If you get angry they get aggressive in defense.

So it's really best to mike nice with the pooch irregardless of his owner.


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## SeamusCA (Jul 26, 2004)

ahaines said:


> I love dogs, i have one as a pet and its very well loved in the household. It is always on a leash or fenced in area, and its a "good dog".
> 
> <snip>
> 
> ...


I too am a dog owner, and my mutt is trained, well-behaved, and non-aggressive. That said, we always keep him leashed when out of the house/yard. The only time he's off the leash is if we are at a park or school and there is some open space to run with no one around.

It's a shame there are irresponsible dog owners that ruin their dogs' and their neighbors' lives. I'm reminded of the couple in Oakland(?) that had some rare hunting dogs (Canario?) that killed their neighbor in the hallway of their apartment building, and they essentially got away with it. They were also completely unapologetic. Unbelieveable.

Like others have said, the dog's personality is typically a reflection of the owner, so if the dog is an a**hole, chances are the owner is, too.

Jim


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## cyclust (Apr 7, 2004)

adamlivi said:


> Mix water and amonia 50/50 in a water pistol ... keep it handy and shoot at the dogs as they approach ... aim for the nose ...
> 
> No permanant damage ... just think of it as helping to train the dog ... no anger or bitterness ... just doing you part and helping the absent owner do the right thing ... Its just the neighborly thing to do.
> 
> Adam


I've always found just plain water from a water bottle will repel 95% of the dogs, but how about adding some lemon juice to the mix? It should be most uncomfortable to the dog's eyes, and if I forget that it's in my water bottle, I'd much rather take a swing of it rather than the amonia mix! another thing that will actually work is strong eye contact. A dogs heirarchy is run by eye contact. Just stop and give an intense stare at the offending mutt and if you don't blink or look away, it will know you mean business and back off.


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## Blue Crown Jewel (Jun 4, 2004)

*I cannot believe what I am reading!*

Folks,
A few days ago I posted in the RBR group how I thought it was pretty pathetic that Tyler Hamilton dedicated his Olympic gold medal to his deceased dog, for crying out loud. I got creamed, albeit a little gently.

When I found this thread, I could not believe that I have the exact same feelings with many of you. I especially liked the story of the fellow who took the dog and shook it off the ground!!! I would have paid money to have been there.

My wife has stopped riding with me because she literally becomes paralyzed from fear when she sees an unleasehed dog. Irrational or not, all I know is that people with unleasehed dogs are preventing me from riding with my wife on the sole path where we live. I find the whole situation insulting and offensive, as many have accurately described.

Fortunately, I have not had any sour experiences so far, but I am always on the lookout to react the appropriate way should a dangerous situation arise.

Good luck to all,
Dimitri


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

*Eye contact can backfire*



cyclust said:


> I've always found just plain water from a water bottle will repel 95% of the dogs, but how about adding some lemon juice to the mix? It should be most uncomfortable to the dog's eyes, and if I forget that it's in my water bottle, I'd much rather take a swing of it rather than the amonia mix! another thing that will actually work is strong eye contact. A dogs heirarchy is run by eye contact. Just stop and give an intense stare at the offending mutt and if you don't blink or look away, it will know you mean business and back off.


You have to realize that this is a contest of wills and dominance. A strongly dominant animal will attack if you gave too strongly into his eyes. Ironically, these are the very animals you need to be afraid of. All the others are just noise makers and are unlikely to attack.

My best advice is to
a) not run. That just triggers their chase instincts. Even nice dogs will chase you.
b) don't let the dog get behind you.
c) retain INDIRECT eye contact
d) keep the bike between you and the dog if you're worried
e) try to make friendly with FIDO if you're comfortable. Let him approach and sniff (from the front). Pet them UNDERNEATH and behind the muzzle. DO NOT try to touch the top of their head. Thats an expression of dominance and will get you bitten on the wrong dog.
f) If FIDO growls you can always go for the pepper spray and lemon water.

Honestly, I have a nice dog. I know he will not attack, but he can get rambunxious at times. And I honestly wouldn't mind if someone gave him a wack or a blast with pepper spray if he got out of line. That will just teach him his lesson.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Bike Nazi said:


> Anyone get chased down by "freindly dogs"? Hey I love dogs just as much as the next guy but I had a couple of instances on the trail with peoples unleashed dogs tearing after me. One I easily out ran but the other I had to kick out my back wheel at, I was trying for a skewer to cranial shot but had to settle for a tire to snout shot that reestablished the alpha pecking order. The other day I was cruising by a couple of huge leashed pit bulls on an uphill that luckily were not too interested in me, that would of been bad.


I've got to assume that these trails you were riding on have a rule or leash law requiring all pets to be leashed. Are the dogs that you encounter with owners who are riding their mountain bikes on the trails, or are they hikers just bringing their pooch along for the hike?

Most "friendly dogs" who encounter another biker/hiker out on the trail will probably bark simply because they are startled to see you, but their owners will follow along in just a few seconds on their bikes. Dogs love to chase moving objects, so trying to out run them or attempting to do something like a "skewer to cranial shot" obviously will only entice the dog to bark and chase more. It's probably best to just hang out until the "friendly owner" shows up and inform them how their "friendly dog" really scared you or got your heart rate up when they gave chase and barked. Remind them in a nice manner of the leash law and that it is a multi-use trail where safety for all is of concern - if that indeed is the law.

Or, if it is permitted on your trails, you could ride with your own dogs to handle any chasing "friendly dogs". Sniffing and the doing the dog thing takes precedent over chasing cyclists in that type of setting.

BB


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## TobyNobody (Mar 17, 2004)

*Very unlikely that there will be danger*



leximog said:


> Question: there are some truly obnoxious dogs at the end of the
> street who chase my husband and bite his shoes, etc.,
> has anyone ever heard of a dog lunging at a baby in
> an open bike trailer? A baby is right at their level,
> ...


I've never heard of it happening, and from the sounds of it these dogs are not vicious, but very badly trainded and just playing chase. They probably think its fun to chase a guy on a bike and nip at his heels the way they nip at eachother. Its highly unlikely that its a predatory thing and your baby will be in no dnager. *BUT!!!* I have never seen these dogs and if you actually think they might be a threat, call your local animal control or police and they should take car of it. While dogs have the right to exist, there are dogs that have been irresponsibly and/or maliciously trained and should be destroyed before they hurt someone.

They probably only need a few facefulls of water (or water with some bleach in it if the dogs _are_ vicious) or get off the bike and scold them and chase them home - a very good deterrent _if_ you know the dogs and _you *don't* feel like you're in actual danger._


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

*Mountain Biking with dogs*



BruceBrown said:


> I've got to assume that these trails you were riding on have a rule or leash law requiring all pets to be leashed. Are the dogs that you encounter with owners who are riding their mountain bikes on the trails, or are they hikers just bringing their pooch along for the hike?
> 
> Most "friendly dogs" who encounter another biker/hiker out on the trail will probably bark simply because they are startled to see you, but their owners will follow along in just a few seconds on their bikes. Dogs love to chase moving objects, so trying to out run them or attempting to do something like a "skewer to cranial shot" obviously will only entice the dog to bark and chase more. It's probably best to just hang out until the "friendly owner" shows up and inform them how their "friendly dog" really scared you or got your heart rate up when they gave chase and barked. Remind them in a nice manner of the leash law and that it is a multi-use trail where safety for all is of concern - if that indeed is the law.
> 
> ...


Lets face it, leashes really aren't an option when you're running your dog while mountain biking. This is probably the best opportunity you have to excercise your dog the way he would like to be. Most dogs can obviously run a hell of a lot longer than you or me.

Just remember that dogs are a bit like children in some respects. Some are going to be poorly behaved. Rarely are they dangerous.

I think when your out communing with nature, you shouldn't be surprised to encounter an untethered animal. If you expect to be sheltered and protected always, perhaps you should stick to the paved trails.

People really need to learn a little bit about dog language before you start complaining. Dog manners are slightly different than people manners. A few simple rules will make dog attack unlikely to EVER occur.

Dogs are not alien to the human experience. Dogs have been our companions in evolution. They are permanently attached to humanity closer than any other species.

Finally, the animal you can see is far less a danger than those you CANNOT see. Animals in predatory mode will not bark or raise alarm. You won't know they are there until they srike. Most trails you will ride on have a coyote population. I would be FAR more worried about a coyote attacking a child than a dog. And of course, trails in the west will often have mountain lions.

So please learn to live in harmony with the doggies. And don't blame EVERY dog owner for the actions of a few miscreants who refuse to train or discipline their animals.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

willtsmith_nwi said:


> Lets face it, leashes really aren't an option when you're running your dog while mountain biking.


True. That's why when I take my 2 labs with me for some off road riding, I am careful toc hoose a set of trails that do allow dogs off the leash (private land trails). However, I imagine that the majority of trails for public use in the states do have a leash law. In those instances - dogs should not be brought along for the ride unless some sort of leash is indeed used. There are those leash attachments available that hook into the rear dropout which allows the dog to run about 2 or 3 feet to the right or left of the rear wheel. Not ideal for any sort of technical mountain biking, but it works for for tranquil trails and my dogs got the "hang" of it rather quickly. Holding a leash in the hand is a safety no-no while riding as you could easily fall when the dog stops or takes a quick turn to look in the woods at a critter. You can have better success attaching the leash to the seatpost, but then you have to make sure the dog is trained to stay at the same side and away from the rear wheel while riding. Not ideal at all. All of this leads back to its simply best not to bring your dog(s) mountain biking unless the trails specifically do allow dogs off the leash. Those types of trails are most likely limited to private land trails.

I have yet to encounter a public or private campground that allows dogs off the leash as well.



willtsmith_nwi said:


> I think when your out communing with nature, you shouldn't be surprised to encounter an untethered animal. If you expect to be sheltered and protected always, perhaps you should stick to the paved trails.


We encounter "untethered" animals all the time in the form of deer, racoons, rabbits, squirrels, woodchucks, bears, coyotes, etc... . However - there is no law for wildlife to be "tethered". There is a law with regard to pets. If there is one thing that IMBA is trying to emphasize for all mountain bikers - it is to respect the land, the wildlife, the people who use the land and the laws. Which brings us back to riding with dogs on leash law trails or riding on trails and encountering somebody else's pet who happens to not be on a leash. It's not fair to the other people using the trail to not have one's animal leashed if that indeed is the law or rule for those trails. No matter who well trained or how well behaved pooch happens to be - it's simply not fair to other trail users.

For the sake of mountain biking and following IMBA's lead - respect the land, the wildlife, the other trail users and the laws. That's the only way to really insure quality riding and opportunities for riding in the future.



willtsmith_nwi said:


> People really need to learn a little bit about dog language before you start complaining. Dog manners are slightly different than people manners. A few simple rules will make dog attack unlikely to EVER occur.


Again, the original post and my response was to inquire whether or not the specific trails in question where the rider was chased and or nipped at allowed pets off the leash. It has nothing to do with complaining or learning "dog language". It has to do with the laws of public trail use. Laws such as "Pets must be on a leash", "no open fires", "hiking/biking off the trails not permitted", etc... are standard laws. Nothing to do with dog manners, people manners or "dog language".



willtsmith_nwi said:


> Dogs are not alien to the human experience. Dogs have been our companions in evolution. They are permanently attached to humanity closer than any other species.


Sure, but that has nothing to do with current trail leash laws on public land.



willtsmith_nwi said:


> Finally, the animal you can see is far less a danger than those you CANNOT see. Animals in predatory mode will not bark or raise alarm. You won't know they are there until they srike. Most trails you will ride on have a coyote population. I would be FAR more worried about a coyote attacking a child than a dog. And of course, trails in the west will often have mountain lions.


Again, all of that is obvious. However, it is too far removed from the original thread about encountering other people's pets who are not leashed on the public use trails. I am a dog owner and love dogs as much as the next dog lover, but I too have been nipped and chased and barked at by other's non-leashed dogs. Enough to realize that I would not want to put another trail user in that situation if my dogs encountered them unleashed in a public trail setting where the law was "pets must be on a leash".

The guy who made the original post never did respond to my question if he was riding on trails that had a leash law or not. So the whole argument is probably moot.



willtsmith_nwi said:


> So please learn to live in harmony with the doggies. And don't blame EVERY dog owner for the actions of a few miscreants who refuse to train or discipline their animals.


Should we not blame all of those who disobey the leash laws....?

BB


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

*Use good sense ...*



BruceBrown said:


> True. That's why when I take my 2 labs with me for some off road riding, I am careful toc hoose a set of trails that do allow dogs off the leash (private land trails). However, I imagine that the majority of trails for public use in the states do have a leash law. In those instances - dogs should not be brought along for the ride unless some sort of leash is indeed used. There are those leash attachments available that hook into the rear dropout which allows the dog to run about 2 or 3 feet to the right or left of the rear wheel. Not ideal for any sort of technical mountain biking, but it works for for tranquil trails and my dogs got the "hang" of it rather quickly. Holding a leash in the hand is a safety no-no while riding as you could easily fall when the dog stops or takes a quick turn to look in the woods at a critter. You can have better success attaching the leash to the seatpost, but then you have to make sure the dog is trained to stay at the same side and away from the rear wheel while riding. Not ideal at all. All of this leads back to its simply best not to bring your dog(s) mountain biking unless the trails specifically do allow dogs off the leash. Those types of trails are most likely limited to private land trails.
> 
> I have yet to encounter a public or private campground that allows dogs off the leash as well.
> 
> ...


The rules against dogs is from trail users who don't train their dogs. Some dogs are well behaved, some aren't. In my opinion, the signs are there for people who don't understand the difference.

I would never take my dog out on a trail that I did not know well. The first is for his own safety. The second is to judge the traffic. I wouldn't take him off leash into an area near traffic.

Most people who encounter my dog are pleasently suprised. Occasionally he barks at someone, but he obeys my voice command. From this respect, he is no different than a child. You judge them individually.

I think this is really an argument about what the purpose of these "passive parks" are all about. These are less controlled spaces and quite frankly they ARE dangerous if you're stupid. Not all of life needs to coddle you and those who have that expectation really have no business out on unpaved "nature" trails.

As far as everbody else is concerned, I'd like to see some portable/tuneable electronic leashes that will allow you to set a distance that the dog must stay in proximity to you. There is an excellent stationary one for campground sites. Basically, when the dog get at their boundry, they get a warning and then an electronic correction. As long as they stay outside of their zone, they get a correction.

In that case, a park can make that a requirement in lieu of a physical leash.

BTW, the park that I do ride at most of the time is a leash park. But it's pretty much understood that it's not enforced unless there is a problem. How do I know this. The park ranger doesn't car, and the cops run their dogs off leashes in those areas (even closer to the playground then I do).

Those of us who mountain bike with dogs know that a ticket may be in our future. We just accept that risk and train our dogs to behave. Ultimately, this makes EVERYBODY safer because the dogs get exercise and they learn socialization.


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## drewactual (Nov 28, 2005)

*you guys are killin' me!*

PROBLEM:
threat to my, or a whole lot worse for the threatening entity, the welfare of my loved one.
SOLUTION:
mitigate threat through reasonable escalation of force, begining with verbal warning and escalating until threat is reduced or eliminated.

escalation of force: 
1. Verbal Warning (yell)
2. Show of Force (make aggressive actions)
3. Non-Lethal Force (Chemical such as pepper spray or mace), or Taser.
4. Non-Lethal Force (baton, stick, club)
5. Deadly Force (force which is known or should be reasonably known to cause serious physical harm at the least, and death as intent.)

You can go from step one to five as the situation dictates. You can't however de-escalate, as in from 5 to 3.

You are the owner or legal occupant of property which is located in a society. There are rules to living in a society whether written or implied. You have been threatened by the activity, or inactivity as the situation is, by the lack of following societies rules by the dog owners.

Your responsibilty is the protection of yourself and your offspring- not the training of the neighbors dogs. If you are threatened it is your responsibilty, not perogative to react- or be some sort of pacifist whimpering chew toy for fido the mad dog down the street.
By "hunting" the dog before an attack has taken place you are in the legal and moral wrong. If you are attacked or even threatened to the point you are afraid for your well being you can legally and morally defend yourself. Quote the steps above while escalating force, show you considered this and quote it to the responding officer (if there is one) and you will be free and clear of any delima.
Fail to follow these steps, or unfairly escalate force and you will have to live with the legal consequences as well (and worse) the mental anguish of knowing you did the wrong thing.

I was a sniper and an active one years ago- of all the snipers I know the ones who made a mental mistake and over-reacted in a situation where escalation of force to deadly was not required are the only ones with PTSD....it is up to you to decide in the midst of an attack what to do- and no matter what your reaction if you did all you could to avoid over-reacting you will live guilt free.

Destroy either the will of your advisary or your advisary itself. Don't think twice about it either. It is not your fault you are in this situation, and trying to play nice will just get you bitten or maimed. Understand that dog is in effect an extension of the owner, and his or her lack of proper handling places you in danger. Consider the following:

If a person is running around armed, acting crazy, and threatening with the weapon (temper and intent displayed) you have a green light to escalate. If a person is just running around armed you do not have a green light- they gotta show both. The dog does not demonstrate emotion to a degree humans do (if he is approaching and wagging his tail he may just be really happy he is about to bite the snot out of you)- start escallation- as posted before say NO with as much malice and command as you can muster.

I have trained dogs too- and a funny thing I have discovered- a person, just your average person can whip the crap out of a single dog in most cases- I didn't say you wouldn't bleed during the proccess, but most folks can prevail in such an encounter IF THE PERSON IS NOT INTIMIDATED. Most animals cry off when they realize they are over-matched. But do you really want to bleed just to save fido? You get two or more dogs and you are in trouble...

If you are attacked, or your trailer towed child is attacked- do what you can and break the attack off. Then calmly return to your home, arm yourself, and confidently return to the animal and destroy it. Do it as cleanly as you can, but do it with the knoweledge and understanding you are not only destroying a known threat, but you are also upholding your responsibility to your clan and the society in which we exist.

I don't expect folks will appreciate this post much, but it is one of the hard situations you can find yourself in and it calls for hard line solutions. It is also the reason why the world is not commanded by hornets or hyenas...(I have an unreasonable fear of Hornets, and Hyenas are badasses...)

PEACE...OUT


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## TrumbullCT (May 26, 2005)

Two questions:

1. Why is this in the Clydesdales forum?
2. Why would you respond to a two year old thread?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

just find a nice 4 foot drop


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## ronny (Apr 2, 2004)

I don't mind a dog running after me, *IF* it is friendly. Usually, the owner appologizes and I accept. Sometimes, I will even stop to pet the dog. I don't mind most dogs and I try to keep a positive relationship going with non-bikers.

I do have a problem with owners who are irresponsible with their dogs on the trails. Not cleaning up the poop and not caring if their dog(s) run wild, with no concern for other users is annoying.

Aggressive dogs should always be on a leash and I get pissed off if a dog takes a bite at me, while I am riding or during any other circumstance.


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## psunuc (Mar 15, 2005)

Right off the bat, I dont mind dogs; I even pet them occasionally. If a dog leaves me alone, on a ride, I leave the dog alone (which is how I like it).

Wild dogs out in the woods is exactly why I carry my handgun with me. After about the third time some wild dog ran upto me and tried to bite at my back tire and feet, I got my lisense to carry a firearm. 

Dogs are animals, just like any other animal. I don't care if you love it and its your pet, its an animal with animal instincts that no one can ever predict, not even "The Dog Whisperer" haha. If I see an ownerless dog running in the woods, I avoid it. If it comes near me, I yell at it and kick it away. If it comes back, it will be fired at. 

I don't love your dog, you love your dog; so keep it safe (which means keeping it away from me).


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## Wherebob (Mar 29, 2006)

Yeah I have been chased and I found if I stop and get off my bike the shows over, at least with most anyway.


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## willtsmith_nwi (Jan 1, 1970)

*Think with your brains instead of your dick*



psunuc said:


> ...
> Dogs are animals, just like any other animal. I don't care if you love it and its your pet, its an animal with animal instincts that no one can ever predict, not even "The Dog Whisperer" haha. If I see an ownerless dog running in the woods, I avoid it. If it comes near me, I yell at it and kick it away. If it comes back, it will be fired at.
> 
> I don't love your dog, you love your dog; so keep it safe (which means keeping it away from me).


Dogs have a natural chase instinct and things you perceive as "attacks" are often just play. I've been scared to death once being chased down by a German Shepard I could not outrun. Then I got off my bike and the game was over. The dog lost interest after I wouldn't pet him.

That "nipping at heels" behavior is a herding tactic, a lot of dogs are just wired to do that (including my own). I have trained that out of him because a lot of people don't understand that. Furthermore, some people have no sense of reason and don't understand that if a dog nips your heel that is not an attack. Your average medium size dog could bite right through your achilles tendon. If you aren't bleeding profusely, you weren't attacked.

Seriously, you're better off with a can of citronella or orange spray, dogs hate that stuff. In fact spraying them with a water bottle is probably good enough.


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