# FS Tandems



## yalun (May 25, 2005)

Trying to gather info on full suspension tandems before blowing a big wad of cash without the benefit of test rides.... Anybody have experience riding 'em up here? (or anywhere else for that matter!) Anybody willing to do a little show-and-tell? (ride-and-tell?) 
Thanks!


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## RickinFL (Nov 27, 2007)

There aren't that many choices, so it should be fairly easy- Ellsworth, or Ventana. Most folks go with Ventana- I did. Bought a Ventana El Conquistador de Montanas (el Conq or ECdM for short) and never looked back (without a test ride).

Go over to Yahoo and sign up join Double Forte (the off road tandem group),and check out Alex's site, MTB Tandems at http://www.mtbtandems.com/.

That's all there is to know except that off road tandems are a blast.

Rick


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## Lutarious (Feb 8, 2005)

*Cannondale too, right?*

Isn't htere a cannondale FS Tandem too?


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

Ventana is the king of FS tandems! You can get custom sizing easy enough. Other options. Plus it is a real offroad worthy machine!

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=348987


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## cmckim (Jul 18, 2007)

second on checking out double forte. easy going folks and good info. Basically look at Ellsworth and Ventana. Ventana is more sturdy and solid (a big plus in a tandem). Cannondale made some good hardtails but their current bikes aren't really set up for serious off road play. If you love technology and have money look at Nicolai. We did a Ventana and are very happy. Glad to provide more info if you want: either PM me or log on to double forte. Alex at mtbtandems really knows his stuff and his builds are rock solid. he only deald in "tandem approved" parts.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Vicious also makes an FS 29" tandem frame, $3,900 + - Retail.
RetroTec can also make a 26" FS tandem frame, using Ventana's rear suspension. Unsure of pricing, but the wait for RetroTec stuff is 6-8 months.
da Vinci makes an FS tandem frame as well, using their own suspension design, with independent coasting, for $5,000 + - .
Don't forget Nicolai's FS tandem frame (26") for $4,400 + -.
Ellsworth and Ventana are both $2,995.00 retail, which, compared to the competition, is a deal!
Ventana has size and color options, which adds to the value. We sell a complete Ventana tandem for around $5,000 with good tandem-worthy parts.
We're talking with a couple of custom builders for making some 29" stuff as well. 
So lots of options out there, none of them cheap.


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## rbtcha (Nov 17, 2007)

Hey Yulan I have Had 2 Tandems over the last 6 years. The first was a Ventana El Conquistador... The Second I had Built By Ventana after doing a lot of research and designing out a few flaws that the earlier version had. The same frame that I had custom Built is now in production. I am Still amazed at how stiff the frame is and how well it performs at high speed as well as low speed the bike also has a very good BB Height Which really helps in the rough stuff. In my opinion The Ventana El Conquistador would be the best choice to make. 
Hope that helps


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## crankit (Mar 6, 2008)

*FS Tandems Ellsworth v Ventana observations*

I have owned ridden both the Ventana and the Ellsworth--The Ventana is moth balled, main reason is lateral flex.

Here's my observations on both. Ellsworth's suspension is much better, it's more efficient, smoother, etc. See www.ellsworthbikes.com tech section and view ICT explanation if your not already familiar with the Ellsworth's suspension.

Ellsworth has a continuous lateral tube. It's laterally really stiff, which I think makes it easier to keep on single track--it just tracks better. This stiffness laterally makes it more single track worthy then the Ventana imho.

Ellsworth disadvantage is that it comes only in one size. 19"/16" The 16" is long so it accommodates taller riders no problem, but the stand over if you have anything shorter then a 31" inseam is a little shy. I have a 30" inseam, and stand over isn't great, but I very rarely stand over it, I bought it to ride...so I'm happily riding it.

Ellsworth also uses tapered tubing, where as the Ventana is straight gauge with gussets.
Ellsworth is anodized, with full cartridge bearings. The Ventana is powder coated.

If you're serious about the singletrackability of the tandem, you owe it to yourself to ride both.


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## Hurricane Jeff (Jan 1, 2006)

I have had 4 tandems, 1 Curtlo hardtail and 3 Ventana's. My current tandem is Ventana's El Testigo, in which, I believe there is no better tandem. I have ridden all of the F/S tandems out there and none even come close to my Ventana.


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## ColoRider1 (May 28, 2005)

I have a Ventana and it has to be the only way to go. I ordered mine with custom sizing to help reduce the 21" standover. I ride it with my 7 year old and my wife with no sizing problems, just a couple of quick adjustments.

I am amazed at how well the bike handles. You will be amazed at how stable the bike feels at high speeds. I have the White Bros fork and I am really pleased. I was running a custom tuned Maverick before and could not believe the flex that I could see in switchbacks and tight turns. My friend now runs the Maverick on his Ventana and it works great for him and his wife as their combined weights are a lot less. He absolutely bombs on his tandem, in the group that we ride with, I am the only one that can hang with them on the downhills. What a trusting/crazy stoker he has!

Just buy the Ventana and enjoy.


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## Devine Intervention (Aug 29, 2005)

*Advice on Testigo, Comment on Witness*



Hurricane Jeff said:


> I have had 4 tandems, 1 Curtlo hardtail and 3 Ventana's. My current tandem is Ventana's El Testigo, in which, I believe there is no better tandem. I have ridden all of the F/S tandems out there and none even come close to my Ventana.


I am looking for a used tandem and came across a Testigo. Unfortunately it was too small for me, but it got me to thinking. Would that be too much bike for a begining tandem team consisting of an experienced freeride/cross country/single speed captain and a "fire road only" stoker?

I've also got an Ellsworth Id, so I am partial to the anodized finish and the way the suspension works. Unfortunately I've already cracked (and had quickly replaced by Ellsworth) the seatstay and chainstay on that bike, so the additional loads from a tandem seems like it might be a bit much for the design. Too bad they don't make the gold anodized version any more - that would match my Id!


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## jtompilot (Sep 14, 2005)

I just picked up a used Ventana. 19/17, S7 tandem fork, CK hubs, BB7 disc, Thomson posts and stem, Monkey lite bars. $2500, not sure if that was the great deal but it gets us started. The owner said he paid $7000.


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

jtompilot said:


> I just picked up a used Ventana. 19/17, S7 tandem fork, CK hubs, BB7 disc, Thomson posts and stem, Monkey lite bars. $2500, not sure if that was the great deal but it gets us started. The owner said he paid $7000.


We saw the ad for the tandem you bought.You got a great deal!
One thing though: Your Ventana's performance will not be at the level of el Conqs with appropriate-length forks; the fork on yours is too long for the frame, which will an adverse effect on climbing and slow-speed work. However, it should fly on the downhills! Enjoy!


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## jtompilot (Sep 14, 2005)

Hi BigNut, I looked at your web site a few times before I sprung for the used Ventana.

Can you help me out with some info? I cant find any info on the S7 fork. The privious owner gave me some lighter springs and I dont know how to disassemble the fork and install new oil. What is the axle to crown distance and how much longer is the S7?


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

jtompilot said:


> Hi BigNut, I looked at your web site a few times before I sprung for the used Ventana.
> 
> Can you help me out with some info? I cant find any info on the S7 fork. The privious owner gave me some lighter springs and I dont know how to disassemble the fork and install new oil. What is the axle to crown distance and how much longer is the S7?


I really wish I could be more help with that fork manual!
Stratos went out of the fork business sometime in the last year or so. I had a copy of the S5T manual here, but I can no longer find it; I may have shipped it out with the last fork we sold in December. 
All other things being equal, the C-A on your fork would be at least 2" longer than the S5-T, the tandem-designated Stratos fork.
The forks aren't dissimilar to other open-bath setups, other than they use transmission fluid instead of fork oil. You should be able to reverse-engineer it if you take it apart. It's been a few years, but I remember them being pretty simple as far as the damping cartridge setup and height/travel setup.
Wish I could be more help with that.


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## arly (Apr 20, 2005)

*other tandems ridden?*



sparrow said:


> Ventana is the king of FS tandems! You can get custom sizing easy enough. Other options. Plus it is a real offroad worthy machine!
> 
> Tim, Help us out and tell us what other MB tandems you have ridden??
> 
> Thanks!


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

arly said:


> sparrow said:
> 
> 
> > Ventana is the king of FS tandems! You can get custom sizing easy enough. Other options. Plus it is a real offroad worthy machine!
> ...


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## beppe7s (Dec 1, 2005)

*italian tandem project*

alex,
this the project I am looking into. MDE is a reputable italian frame builder. at courrent exchagne rate would be $ 3.450 (or € 2400)
second choice would be a 29er front suspended
the frame shows the I-Link susp. system which is designed (I know we have all heard that before) to isolate pedal induced bobbing.



BigNut said:


> Vicious also makes an FS 29" tandem frame, $3,900 + - Retail.
> RetroTec can also make a 26" FS tandem frame, using Ventana's rear suspension. Unsure of pricing, but the wait for RetroTec stuff is 6-8 months.
> da Vinci makes an FS tandem frame as well, using their own suspension design, with independent coasting, for $5,000 + - .
> Don't forget Nicolai's FS tandem frame (26") for $4,400 + -.
> ...


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

beppe7s said:


> alex,
> this the project I am looking into. MDE is a reputable italian frame builder. at courrent exchagne rate would be $ 3.450 (or € 2400)
> second choice would be a 29er front suspended
> the frame shows the I-Link susp. system which is designed (I know we have all heard that before) to isolate pedal induced bobbing.


Very cool. (Cooler to bike geeks if it had measurements and angles), but very cool design. What's the frame material? The price seems relatively competitive as well. What's the warranty on the frame? Does the builder have a US distributor?
Thanks for posting that; I'll have to look into that suspension design a bit more.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

crankit said:


> I have owned ridden both the Ventana and the Ellsworth--The Ventana is moth balled, main reason is lateral flex.
> 
> Here's my observations on both. Ellsworth's suspension is much better, it's more efficient, smoother, etc. See www.ellsworthbikes.com tech section and view ICT explanation if your not already familiar with the Ellsworth's suspension.
> 
> ...


Let's see here....Ells is less flexy than a Ventana? That goes against everything I read while researching bikes/builds. 
Reasons why this doesn't make sense are outlined in your statement above:
Ells- horst-link (inherently flexy), butted tubing
Ventana - HD rear swingarm, quad bearings, straight-guage tubing

Must be just in the front triangle, because given that both makers use the rear ends from their bike lineup (and Ventana uses the HD rear end with quad bearings), there is no doubt the Ventana should be stiffer.

But like you said, you owe it to yourself to ride both!


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## beppe7s (Dec 1, 2005)

*more on MDE tandem*

warranty 2 years
material al. dedacciai 7003 custom shape for MDE
The geometry is custom made. I think mine would be the first one
wheel travel 158mm or 6" (for mine I have asked 140mm or 5.5" with a shorter marzocchi ROCO)
US distributor: I don't know
for info and explanation of the suspension I-Link 
www.mdebikes.com
the orange frame has the same suspension (basically rear half of the tandem)
I am interested in your feed back



BigNut said:


> Very cool. (Cooler to bike geeks if it had measurements and angles), but very cool design. What's the frame material? The price seems relatively competitive as well. What's the warranty on the frame? Does the builder have a US distributor?
> Thanks for posting that; I'll have to look into that suspension design a bit more.


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