# Xtracycle / Big Dummy Dilemma



## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

My LHT is currently my primary transportation, but I have realized it's inadequate for the loads I like to carry (groceries with my two kids) so I am considering either building a Big Dummy or putting an Xtracycle on my Kona. I currently have no money to work with, but I have things I can sell to make it work and I need your input to help me decide what to do. I could also use advice on where to buy frameset (Tree Fort or Bikeman) and what size to get (I'm 5'9") Thanks for any ideas!
*
Option 1: Big Dummy *
600 Frame
400 Xtracycle Peapod Kit
 0 Build with XT parts I have off my Santa Cruz
1000 Bones

Pros: 
Purpose built frame.
All XT w/ 36h Salsa Gordo Rims.
Come out 300 ahead after selling Kona for 300 and LHT for 1000, use for odds and ends like shipping, cables, chain . . .

Cons:
BD would become my primary and only transportation.
V-Brakes
Pain in the ace to sell, box and ship LHT and Kona on ebay.

*Option 2: Kona W/ Xtracycle*
700 Freeradical and Peapod kit
 0 Kona Bike
700 Smackers

Pros: 
Still come out 300 ahead after selling LHT for 1000.
Keep Santa Cruz built.
Hydraulic Disc Brakes.
Only have to sell one bike.

Cons:
Aluminum Kona frame not purpose built or as strong.
Deore components not as nice, especially crappy wheels with pitted bearings and 32h rims.
Kona becomes primary and only transportation.

*Option 3: Forget the whole thing and be thankful for what I have!*


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

sell what you don't ride
what you ride, invest strongly into its quality

as you've noticed, its going to be a pain to get rid of things.
isn't that ironic?
i found it immensely profound, how easy it is to acquire and how difficult it is to get rid of.

my personal feeling is that if you can ditch a bunch of your stuff, and build a Dummy
and you ride it a lot...

thats a no brainer... right?

i mean, you'd be absolutely blown away how easy it is to end up with 20hrs/wk on a bike
especially when it comes down to not owning a car
and your life is suddenly bicycle-centric

on that note

the center of Bicycle Lifestyle is the bottom bracket
then the wheels

i'd consider not getting the PeaPod kit.
what are you doing now?
maybe you could simply use a trailer?
Criagslist for a kid's trailer?

I mean, to really sit and consider how much "hauling" you'd be doing
and how much you'd be kid hauling.

kid trailers are so common.
around here, i see them for sale all the time. kids out grow them.
a PeaPod is highly specific


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Devo, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate your insights! 

In regards to the PeaPod, my daughter currently rides on a seat that attaches to my seat stays and seat post. It's a pain every time I want to use it because I have to take of my rear rack and remove my seat post. Then, she is located way too high so the balance is terrible and to make matters worse I have to rely on my front rack to carry cargo, further destabilizing the ride.

But, I do all of this because she loves it! She feels connected with me riding, and we can talk, it's a very fun experience for us both. I bought a trailer for her (another thing to get rid of) but she couldn't talk to me while riding, wasn't able to experience the fun of bicycling and we felt disconnected. In addition, I felt it was unsafe to have such a long, wide load (much longer and wider than a Dummy) especially when crossing streets or negotiating traffic. The seat is much better. 

Now, she is getting a bit big for it and my son has began taking rides with me. I considered a tag-along for her, but I think that my son in the rear seat, a front rack loaded with weight and a tag-along in the back would be a recipe for disaster.

A PeaPod remedies all these issues, and quiet nicely. Both my kids could ride in the back, one in the seat and another on the stoker, and I would still have room for cargo. One bike that does it all!

With that in mind, what do you think about using a BD as your only transportation. Is it too much of a boat for that?


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

i haven't owned a car for about 5 years or more.

my Dummy is my truck.

i ride it a ton!

altho lately I've been riding my 29er, and using a Chrome Kremlin messenger bag...
most of the time, I opt to use The Dummy

the other night i did some light grocery shopping, and dumped it all into the messenger bag
then put all that weight on my back, which was...
well... 
not as nice as having it on The Dummy

anything I own
anything that I have moved
100% of my belongings have been moved via Big Dummy.
plain and simple.

Huxley made reference to "the reducing valve"
well... the bike is my primary, lifestyle "reducing valve"
to the Nth degree

personally, the BD is 100% viable sole transport.
in fact...
its more than viable 

often times, i wonder to myself, "if i had to choose 1 bike...?"

honestly
if i was so freaking broke
and i had to give up Sport Recreation
down to Brass Tacks 

i'm pretty sure i'd choose the dummy.
it does everything.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks again Devo, I read through your blog and found that you had a similar dilemma: Xtracycle or BD, and in fact it seems you tried both and are more happy with the BD. You specifically mentioned how the X on your dale flexed on climbs. That was my biggest concern using my Kona, even though it has a rigid instigator fork and large tubing, I'm concerned it would flex. Was it otherwise stable under load or would you say that the BD is far more stable than a X/frame combo?

At this point, I'm leaning heavily toward the big dummy but to be honest I'm concerned about making it my primary transportation as I'm used to 20 mile days on my 700c LHT, and I'm worried that the BD will feel sluggish and large. I haven't spent much road time on 26" wheels but maybe I'm making too big a deal out of it. So maybe I just have to work a bit harder to make it go as fast?


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

in my opinion
in my experience
The Dummy is by far better than the convert job i had.

yes, the wiggle drove me crazy.

the deal with a cargo bike is that, more than likely you are going to load it up.

what you'd put in panniers
you can put those panniers on one side of the dummy
and put the whole freaking bike on the other side
plus put a rack and panniers up front

its temptress 
its alluring to load up

its nothing like riding a road bike

however...
its not that you can't cover distance on it

I've done a fair amount of traveling on mine
even carried stupid loads, for significant distances

as crazy as it sounds
the dummy is capable of being... ???
nimble?

would i really say that?
i mean... 
if you rode it with slicks, with no racks... i think i can bunny hop it
its not a big deal to whip it around parking lots, go off of curbs
going up curbs... well... thats another skill to learn
its impossible to wheelie

that is, its really difficult to pick up the front wheel
but if you do a funky bunnyhop/wheelie move... it pretty much turns into a wacko way of getting the front wheel up enough to clear a curb

the deal with "freight" is that it often becomes heavy
with that... The Dummy can eat wheels.

personally, I'm on my 3rd set. 1 set i used on my convert job, it made it to The Dummy, then i broke spokes, and the rear wheel started to collapse

the 2nd set, i hit a bollard on the bike path, dogging a pedestrian, the wideloader hit the bollard, i went over the bars, when the bike hit the ground, it taco'd the rear wheel. it was 2 days old.

now i'm on a set of WTB LaserDisc DH wheels.
i should have started out with this wheelset

however, i have buddies on convert jobs, and a buddy on a Dummy
none of them use DH wheels
so go figure huh?

but then again, I don't haul around cases of toilet paper


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)




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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Awesome videos Devo, you had me drooling for a dummy! Moving pictures are worth a million words, so many of my questions answered. Just looking at pictures I was really unclear how the rear was built but it all made sense seeing it on video. 

Funny you had the front built the same as I pictured it, with my sotto voce king, short salsa stem, and my incredibell. I also like the titec bars, they look perfect for the build. 

I can just picture it now . . . the winter weekend tours through the cascades, the summer camping trips with the fam . . . 

If you don't mind a personal question, about how tall are you and what size dummy is that? 

You also helped allay some of my 26" wheel fears with that clip of you group riding. Thanks again!


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

I'm 5'10"
I ride an 18" mtb
56cm for a road bike

typically i set the top of the saddle to the middle of the BB spindle at 29.5" (or very close to it)

you can do a lot with The Dummy
you just have to pedal it


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## NHpug (Mar 30, 2007)

*2 cents*

I'm 5' 9" and picked an 18 inch Dummy, seems good. 
I don't have anything like Devo's experience, but I started with a Klein MTB/xtracycle and the issue with flex when loaded isn't the bike frame, it's that the Xtracycle connects only in three locations that are in a single horizontal plane - no triangulation. The Dummy is well-triangulated.
I've barely got my Dummy together - waiting for fenders - and I rode it a few days ago on my usual 25-1/2 mile loop. I have 47mm Conti Town&Country tires, so it rolls nicely. It's slower than a road bike but didn't feel unduly sluggish. I'm not 1/10th as strong as Devo, either - I'm 56 with some non-functioning muscles in my leg from a disc herniation. I can see that having a Big Dummy as a sole bike would be OK for me if it had to be. I also think there is something about these longtail rigs that make me feel great, like a kid on a bike again - the speed I'm riding at seems to become unimportant.

Sorry if this seems too rambly. I'd go for the Dummy in your shoes.


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

NHpug said:


> I also think there is something about these longtail rigs that make me feel great, *like a kid on a bike again* - the speed I'm riding at seems to become unimportant.


YES. Incredibly valid point that ran through my mind from Mile 1 on my Dummy. And still true almost 2 years later.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

mangoman, you own both a BD and an LHT, what do you think about my idea of dropping the LHT completely for the BD?

NHpug, thanks for sizing info. I located a large here in town that I'm going to go look at for comparison, but I think the medium is the correct size for me.


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Well...if this helps you decide, here's my 2 cents: Currently own the following:

- 2001 Santa Cruz Heckler
- 2008 Surly Big Dummy
- 2009 LHT

And...currently collecting parts for a new Pugsley build this winter.

However, I don't want that many bikes. It's overkill. I'm trying to simplify my life, not amass more crap that collects dust, just to boast a collection. That's where* I'm* at.

In light of that, sold my 1x1. And will part out my Heckler this winter/spring.

Which means I'll own:

- 2008 Surly Big Dummy
- 2009 LHT
- 2010 Pugsley

Still too much. However, I'm planning to ride the LHT across the United States next summer. After that trip is over with, I may sell the LHT. Maybe.

Why?

Having carefully considered the pros/cons, and considering where I'm at in life (again, need to pare down Stuff, and don't care about jumping off cliffs via bicycle like I used to {Heckler}), I think the ultimate pair of bikes would be the Dummy and the Pugsley. Two machines that, collectively, do everything I want a 'fleet' of bikes to do:

*- tour
- haul
- explore*

AND, there's something fantastic and sort of..._freeing_...about the thought of making a custom long tray for the Goat so I could haul the Pugs on the Goat. Add a trailer, sell everything else, and hit The Road, hopefully in time to see the Four Horseman coming over the horizon.

Which is a whole other tangent...

Notice *speed* is not mentioned in the list above. I can make the Goat go fast when I want to. And I'm sure the same will be true of the upcoming Pugs.

Again, might sell the LHT in a year or less. Might not.

For what it's worth, if I had to keep one bike right now and ditch the rest? The Dummy would be my pick. If I owned the Pugs already, it'd be very close second.

Mangoman, out.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I brought my daughter with me to look at the BD and she pretty much sold me on it. I was riding it around the showroom and she ran up and jumped on the back like some cowgirl chasing down a horse! Then she yelled out, "This is the best bike ever!" 

Anyway, my buddy who works there was helping me with the sizing. The bike was a large and he was saying that it looked just right, but I'm not so sure, especially since you all ride mediums and are about my size. The bike I tried had a 90mm stem and it felt a smidge long, but do you guys ever feel cramped on the medium?

Mangoman: it's funny that you have such a similar set of bikes. I too have a Heckler (1999), but I hardly have time to ride it, which is why I would like to use the XT parts off it for the BD build. I love my LHT and have put a lot of time and money into building it, but compared to a BD it seems limited.

BTW: I called the two online shops and got shipping quotes. Looks like the build will total roughly 1100 with the BD/Peapod kit after all is said and done. A far cry from $3500 at the LBS! I will probably order this weekend and use this thread to document the build!


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

sell the heckler

i also use a 90mm stem, but its got some rise
i think its 15deg rise

don't be shy with the stack height on the *steel steertube*

i think i've got about 60mm of stack height.
i could have gone with more.

kids love the dummy

my brothers goofing off
my brother-in-law with his boys
and this is how i fit on the bike...
i've never felt "cramped"


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> I brought my daughter with me to look at the BD and she pretty much sold me on it. I was riding it around the showroom and she ran up and jumped on the back like some cowgirl chasing down a horse! Then she yelled out, "This is the best bike ever!"


Your daughter is, quite clearly, gifted and/or a genius. 



Sizzler said:


> Anyway, my buddy who works there was helping me with the sizing. The bike was a large and he was saying that it looked just right, but I'm not so sure, especially since you all ride mediums and are about my size. The bike I tried had a 90mm stem and it felt a smidge long, but do you guys ever feel cramped on the medium?


I don't feel cramped. That said, I have spent a long year tweaking the cockpit and am now VERY comfortable with my tall steering stack and Jones bar. I know I could lower the stack, and someday I might. But...it's just...so dang comfortable.



Sizzler said:


> Mangoman: it's funny that you have such a similar set of bikes. I too have a Heckler (1999), but I hardly have time to ride it, which is why I would like to use the XT parts off it for the BD build. I love my LHT and have put a lot of time and money into building it, but compared to a BD it seems limited.


I wouldn't sell your LHT too fast. Especially if you're using it. I'd get the BD built and spend some time with both. One might inform the usability of the other. Dunno...just thinkin' out loud here.


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Me, 5'8", 175 pounds on my Medium BD:


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## HardyWeinberg (Aug 3, 2007)

2 kids is ... an awkward load, esp. if you have a trailer and it's already not getting the job done. I've had 3 yrs now of thinking that parking my 2 kids on the back of a BD/X would be the solution, but have futzed along w/ the now almost 5 yr old either in a trailer or on the trail-a-bike while getting the now 8 yr old to ride ever farther on his own (and I slow down to the speed it takes him to get that done). Another 10 months and the younger will be in school 4 blocks away rather than cargo toted to a preschool 4 miles away, and that's an easy solo ride for her even if the training wheels haven't come off by then.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

mangoman said:


> Your daughter is, quite clearly, gifted and/or a genius.


Ma, certo, of course! She's three and tells me about the forces of gravity, dinosaur eating habits and the movement of air molecules.



mangoman said:


> I don't feel cramped. That said, I have spent a long year tweaking the cockpit and am now VERY comfortable with my tall steering stack and Jones bar. I know I could lower the stack, and someday I might. But...it's just...so dang comfortable.


I could go for some comfort. I like the drops on my LHT alright, but I really liked the upright feel on the Dummy I tried.



mangoman said:


> I wouldn't sell your LHT too fast. Especially if you're using it. I'd get the BD built and spend some time with both. One might inform the usability of the other. Dunno...just thinkin' out loud here.


I wish that were possible, but I'm not in the position right now. At the time, I bought my LHT because I felt it was the most functional choice. Now that I see how the Dummy is so much more able, I feel that owning an LHT would be somewhat redundant, even though I would definitely keep it if I had the money.


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## Plim (Dec 8, 2004)

Size: I find the key to bikes that fit for me is the ETT. Something close to 23.5" with about a 90mm stem and I'm happy and comfy for hours. The medium (18") Big Dummy has an ETT of.... 23.5". Guess what size I got.  

I'd take a look at your current bikes and think if you feel stretched out or squashed and choose a size accordingly. 

I got mine from Tree Fort, if it matters to you. Total, including shipping, was $626. 

I'm trying to figure out how I want to haul my kids. Spend the extra for the Pea Pod thingy or hack my own mounting system for a seat I already have? Hmmm....


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I thought about the "hack my own" method, especially for the 250 that the peapod cost, but considering I will be able to use it for both my kids for at least the next 3 years, I think it will be worth it.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

this group has a ton of "insight"
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Why not a trailer?*

It would allow you to have a "normal" bike still when you want it. I love the Big Dummy but as far as cargo carrying, a trailer has got to be way better and cheaper than an entirely new bicycle.

http://www.bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/


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## HardyWeinberg (Aug 3, 2007)

tl1 said:


> It would allow you to have a "normal" bike still when you want it. I love the Big Dummy but as far as cargo carrying, a trailer has got to be way better and cheaper than an entirely new bicycle.


Can you put like rows of bench seats onto the trailer for a schoolbus effect?


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## HardyWeinberg (Aug 3, 2007)

Sizzler said:


> *Option 3: Forget the whole thing and be thankful for what I have!*


This is my current vote. Right now you have a bike designed to be loaded, a kid seat, a trailer, a kid who won't go in the trailer (load in kid seat), a kid who presumably hasn't expressed a preference yet (load into trailer), the remaining capacity of the trailer (presumably 100# minus weight of kid and kid ancillaries).

I don't see what your cargo needs could be that wouldn't fit into all of that. There are laws of physics suggesting there is optimization to do w/ centering the load between the hubs longbike-style vs hanging it off the back in a trailer but in practice your legs still need to spin the cranks no matter what and they and your topography are more likely to be your ultimate limiting factors rather than whether the load is distributed among a bunch of panniers and a trailer or consolidated onto a longbike. If cash really is constraining, making what you have work is the easiest thing to do.

All that said, check out this bad boy that I just saw at the local children's musem:










Didn't gawk beyond snapping a cell phone pic, so I don't know what gearhub it has. I know the default is 3spd which I find tough to picture being usable w/ the topography around here.

And when I took a step back, here is my wife's bike and the trailer our daughter rode in:


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks Hardy, I really appreciate your input. I have been sitting here at my computer drinking coffee, running through all the possibilities, adding up part prices, going over various scenarios in my head and I still haven't come to a conclusion yet. 

You make a good case for option 3, but let me throw out some more variables:

First, money is an issue, and if I sell my Santa Cruz, LHT and Kona, I will have several hundred dollars left over AFTER the Dummy is finished, which I could use to finish building my wife's bike: a big deal for both of us. 

Second, the child seat cannot be used with my rear rack, so it takes about 20 minutes to bolt on and another 20 to take it off, and renders the rear end worthless for things like grocery / library trips with my kid. I could use the trailer for the rest (including my other kid) but it's just a frame with fabric around it, so when you load it with groceries they scrape the ground. That and it makes the bike long and awkward: especially difficult to park and lock. 

To be honest, I all but gave up on the Dummy late last night when I decided I liked my LHT and Santa Cruz too much to sell them, but when I woke up this morning my wife said, "So when are going to order that dumb bike thing?" which was her way of saying "Go ahead and get it." 

Then I started to think about how it's ridiculous to keep the LHT and SC just because I like them. I have a problem in this respect. My garage is like a bike jungle. Right now, I have 5 frames and 6 complete bikes, some hanging from the ceiling, others thrown in heaps or parked in my homemade bike rack. For me, the Dummy is a step toward paring this down and a step away from my worldly collection of goods. It's like a statement to myself that I would rather spend bike time with my family than bike time away from my family. I don't know if that makes sense or if it just sounds like jittered coffee rambles, but that's where I'm at right now.


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> Thanks Hardy, I really appreciate your input. I have been sitting here at my computer drinking coffee, running through all the possibilities, adding up part prices, going over various scenarios in my head and I still haven't come to a conclusion yet.
> 
> You make a good case for option 3, but let me throw out some more variables:
> 
> ...


If I'm reading you correctly, your thinking sounds pretty solid to me, Sizzler:

- reduce your material 'footprint'
- make the time for family-via bicycles

I think the hard part will come when you go to sell stuff; let's face it...resale on most bike-related equipment just sucks. But...there's still value there, and, if your math is somewhat accurate, the additional value-the abstract value-will eventually outweigh any short term losses on used equipment sales.

In short, we here in the Star Chamber of the Great Cult of Dumbness now bequeath thee with our most joyous blessing and the blessing of the Surly Mothership itself: Go forth and purchase, man. Be ye efficient and prosperous in thy outbound sales, and may ye reap heaps of Big Dumb Love as ye consolidate, rebuild, and spread the Love.

Mangoman
aka, El Cargonista


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Thanks Mangoman, I'm still sitting here trying to decide what to do. No matter how I go through the various options, the only one that consistently ends with money rather than debt is the Dummy, and it's the only option that puts my family first. That said, selling my stuff is difficult and regretting it later is even worse, that's why this is such as difficult decision. I buy and sell a lot of bikes so I'm pretty sure my math is accurate regarding the values of my bikes. The LHT has about $2000 worth of stuff on it, so figuring realistically it should fetch at least $1000. The heckler is completely outdated by today's standards, but there is always a market for Santa Cruz frames, especially ones made in the USA. Anyway, the LHT is about to go on the bay so I guess we'll see!


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## HardyWeinberg (Aug 3, 2007)

If consolidating to a dummy pops out a bike for your wife then absolutely that's the way to go if your sale price estimates come through.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*I would think so*



HardyWeinberg said:


> Can you put like rows of bench seats onto the trailer for a schoolbus effect?


Or church pews? Since the guy in the picture is shown hauling a refrigerator with a heavy duty dolly to move it, those seem possible. 










Check out this guy triple-teaming it. Hallelujah!

https://www.bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/hpv-cargo-capacity.html


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## Sloan (May 31, 2006)

Sizzler if you live near Los Angeles I will let you test ride my BD! I agonized over the purchase forever, analysis paralysis was in full swing until I found them on jensonusa.com for 1999.99 and free shipping. My wife practically begged me to buy it so that I would shut up.  I don't drive at all any more unless I have to go over the hill into the San Fernando valley. I have the pea pod and it rocks, but depending on how tall your little one is the fixed bar may cause you some troubles. My daughter now begs to take the BD everywhere we go, which helps me get workout time without having to feel bad about leaving mom alone, pregnant with the three year old. Even when I saw the bike in the store I wasn't sure but once I put a leg over it and started to ride across the parking lot I was hooked. I have not touched any of my other bikes since the Dummy (named Radar by the 3 year old) came home. It's heavy but this bike always put a smile on my face. If you want any specific pics of the peapod set up let me know.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Sloan, this might sound strange, but you just said everything I wanted to hear. I have been agonizing over this decision all day . . . more like all week, and again this evening I decided that I would not be buying the big dummy because I love my LHT and like my Santa Cruz too much. But my mind kept coming back to the same issue over and over: my kids can't ride with me, so I bit the bullet, wrote up an ad, closed my eyes and clicked the mouse. It felt like I was putting my friend up for sale, so the best thing I could have possibly heard was that with the BD you haven't touched your other bikes, that the pea pod rocks and that you are now relatively car free. Thank you!

BTW: I would love to test your bike but I'm about 1000 miles too far to the north, but thank anyway. I went back and tested the BD again yesterday and I must admit that I too was hooked!


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## aljee (Aug 27, 2009)

I have done the trailer, burley solo, and i have done the trailabike, trek, and the BD by FAR is the better of the three - super stable, super efficient. we got one that the lbs had built up from the frame and save a few so that my wife could take my daughter to kg. 
i agree with the above poster that it is indeed nimble. i love riding it. my main ride is also the LHT. i think the switch to the 26in wheels is the cause for it to feel a lot more nimble than the LHT, that and the more upright position. since the wife and i share the BD a lot, i won't get rid of my LHT any time real soon, but the stable is getting crowded, and i haven't even finished the pugsley yet!
i could easily roll on just the BD. the tire we have are marathon 1.5in, but i would like to try out the 2in apples some time. ours came with vbrakes, which i wouldn't recommend. i think it deserves a disc setup AND a generator hub, but that will have to wait for a bit. it also came with nitto northroad bars, which are very nice, but i get a nerve twinge in my hand after about 10-15mi on it. 

good luck!


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## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

I don't quite get the need to reduce one's material footprint, maybe that is just a phase we sometimes go through? I do understand the need to spend within a managable budget. Sell whatever bikes you must. If you can even find a buyer these days you are a lucky person.

That said, my BD is my most useful and favorite bike. The thing is incredible. I am 5'9" 165 lbs and ride a medium which feels slightly large to me.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

For me, it's not as much about reducing my material footprint as physically clearing out my garage and mentally detaching myself from objects. Sounds silly since I will be buying yet another bike, but I figure I will be able to sell or recycle at least 3 bikes and 3 frames in the next month. I will also be able to sell my trailer and kid seat, both of which take up a lot of room. It's like the bike to end all bikes!


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> It's like the bike to end all bikes!


Annnnd CUT. That's a wrap.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Wait, hold the wrap!*



mangoman said:


> Annnnd CUT. That's a wrap.


While the Big Dummy is no doubt an awesome machine it does not look to be optimized for singletrack riding or road riding or single speeding or...fill in the blank. I couldn't own just a Dummy in a quest to reduce my material footprint. It would be even more wretched excess but I still want one, maybe with a trailer.  It's a lot less wretched excess than a large automobile or SUV or similar.


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## NHpug (Mar 30, 2007)

*Material footprint*

Jeez, folks, I've always assumed that my material footprint didn't include _bikes!_

Besides the Dummy, which is the new kid on the block, I have my old built-for-me Bob Jackson tourer (1972), Raleigh 20 folder (late 1960s), OTB fixed/singlespeed (late 1950s), Litespeed Unicoi MTB (1999), and Serotta Concours Ti (2000). No two alike! And only the Dummy and the Bob Jackson were purchased new.

Of course I _could_ get by with fewer bikes. And it wouldn't be really hard to prioritize them, but I like having the oldies especially even if they don't get a lot of use.


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## luckylarue (Oct 15, 2008)

While I'm all for simplifying one's life by getting rid of unused "clutter" and taking the Zen/non-attachment approach to material possessions, I'd have a difficult time selling off any of my Surlys. I'd say if there's any way to keep the LHT - do it! Perhaps my sentiment will change when I actually do build up my Dummy frame and get it on the road but I can't imagine riding sweet singletrack (w/ the km) or doing century rides (w/ the CC) w/ just one bike. So...can't wait for some new Dummy pics!


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

luckylarue, I know the BD won't be doing much, if any single track or century rides but the reality is that I'm the one who can't do these things anymore. I'm lucky to find a couple hours away from the family to hit the trails, so any biking I do must serve some function, such as getting to work or hauling groceries. ideally, i will be able to spend more time in the saddle with the ability to take my kids along.


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## Sloan (May 31, 2006)

I propose that we all get together and do a Big Dumb Century! You could do a century it would however be a slow century.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I don't want to count my bikes before they hatch, but things are looking good! I will probably be able to put in my BD/Peapod order soon!


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> I don't want to count my bikes before they hatch, but things are looking good! I will probably be able to put in my BD/Peapod order soon!


dummy rising!


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## Mountain Medic (Oct 12, 2004)

Turkeyride with my daughter.


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

awesome job on that front rack!


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## Mountain Medic (Oct 12, 2004)

Thanks Devo,

Here is more from when I built it...
https://dayinthelife.iamku.com/?p=362


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## Mountain Medic (Oct 12, 2004)

Building it..
https://dayinthelife.iamku.com/?p=340


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I just had the wind taken out of my sails: put in my order for the BD, then went to order my Peapod and they are out of stock!!!???:madman: :madmax: 

Suppose I could just order the longtail kit and fab something up, but that peapod was half the reason I ordered that dumb bike. Oh well, I can only hope that it's unavailable for a reason, which is for me to design something even better!


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sloan said:


> I propose that we all get together and do a Big Dumb Century! You could do a century it would however be a slow century.


I would LOVE to get a hundred Dummies together for a hundred miles...


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> I just had the wind taken out of my sails: put in my order for the BD, then went to order my Peapod and they are out of stock!!!???:madman: :madmax:
> 
> Suppose I could just order the longtail kit and fab something up, but that peapod was half the reason I ordered that dumb bike. Oh well, I can only hope that it's unavailable for a reason, which is for me to design something even better!


No worries, Sizz'! Keep rockin' in a forward direction. By the time you get the BD, face it, chase it, build it and tweak it....that PeaPod might be back in stock. Those good lovin' hippies at Xtracycle tend to ship things at a decent speed, too.

Then again, I'm lovin' Mountain Medic's solution. Kid looks pretty content in that chair.


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## luckylarue (Oct 15, 2008)

Sweet pics & rack, MM. Can't wait to cruise around w/ my 5 year-old. I'm totally into riding the Santa Fe Century w/ the Dummy - once it's built. Rolling along w/ my PAL radio & ipod cranking tunes, maybe a cooler of cold ones. More of a rider-support role than "racing".
Sizz - stay on target, the Force is w/ you.


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## superjohnny (Aug 5, 2005)

Hey Mountain Medic, are those donut holes? Boy do they look good. I love a fresh hot donut.

What's up with the rear kid seat? That's crazy cool. I'm having the Bobike/Peapod dilemma right now, trying to figure out how to haul my 3 year old around on the BD.

<edit> Oh, and sizzler get you a BD and a carbon fiber seatpost/stem combo to lighten it up a bit. Makes all the difference int he world.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

called Xtracycle, peapod sold out till Febuary, so I just ordered a long tail to tide me over until then. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions, I really appreciated the input. I'll post pics when I start the build! :thumbsup:


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> called Xtracycle, peapod sold out till Febuary, so I just ordered a long tail to tide me over until then. Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions, I really appreciated the input. I'll post pics when I start the build! :thumbsup:


You ordered the Big Dummy, or a longtail extension from Xtracycle...?


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

I ordered a big dummy and a long tail kit (frame and bags that plug in to the db) perhaps you are thinkng of the freeradical frame, which is their bolt on frame extension?


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## Mountain Medic (Oct 12, 2004)

Thanks all.

I had this dilemma about how to haul my two kids around about 1 year ago.. I came up with this double seat I made. It has been through a couple iterations to arrive at what it is now. Mainly, it used to be two Adirondack chairs but the front had to be repaired and thus is now just one adirondack and one standard style chair... Both have seatbelts. My kids are 19 months and 5 years old. The younger one started riding on the dummy about 3-4 months ago. At that time the rear seat had rails to contain the kid better.. Now the rear cross bars have been removed.

The big Dummy has changed my life. I ride about 95% of the time. Drive when time is an issue, or when weather is too much for the kids.. I haul both kids and a load of groceries all the time..

For my 35 mile commute I ride a long haul trucker, sometimes the dummy when I have more time... Then there are the 2 other mountain bikes for rec/sport riding...


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> I ordered a big dummy and a long tail kit (frame and bags that plug in to the db) perhaps you are thinkng of the freeradical frame, which is their bolt on frame extension?


Ah...yes. I was thinkin' Free Radical frame.


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Little update: 

LHT sold for 1200 smackers!

Kona sold for 250 clams!

Big Dummy scheduled to ship out Monday! (went with Tree Fort Bikes as they quoted me 17$ shipping, while Bikeman told me, "I'm not sure what shipping will be but at least $100")

Cool dudes at Xtracycle contacted me to say they found me the last remaining PeaPod! Thanks Xtracycle!

Just a matter of time before I'm crusing my BD!


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## SelfPropelledDevo (Oct 2, 2005)

dummy up!


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Woooooot! This train's a rollin', boys!


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## Sizzler (Sep 24, 2009)

Little update:

had the dummy a little under two months now and recently passed the 500 miles mark.

happy is a heinous understatement. best bike i have ever owned doesn't even cut it. the only word i can think of to describe the feeling i get from riding it is shpadoinkle, and if you don't know what that means then you need to watch this: 




long and short of it, i love my dummy and so far it has been nothing but FUNction!


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## superjohnny (Aug 5, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> Little update:
> 
> had the dummy a little under two months now and recently passed the 500 miles mark.
> 
> ...


Awesome! I really like mine as well. Loaded it up with the wife & kid this weekend for a 15 mile ride. Extra 200 lb? No problem, Dummy does it.


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## vik (Oct 13, 2005)

Sizzler said:


> Little update:
> 
> had the dummy a little under two months now and recently passed the 500 miles mark.
> 
> ...


Congrats on the new dummy...:thumbsup: It's a sweet bike...


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