# "mechanical disk brakes are no better than v brakes" nat's bike shop



## gadget bike (Nov 15, 2009)

I called Nat's outdoor sporting goods the other day. when i talked to the guy in the bike shop I told him that i was interested in upgrading my v brakes to a set of bb7 disk brakes, He said that "unless i got hydros that i was wasting my time and money" he also said "v brakes have more stopping power than mechanical disk brakes". IMO he doesn't know what he is talking about, however i have been biking about 2 years he has worked in a bike shop for 10 years. so is this information correct or incorrect?


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

*Depends on ,*

wether it is in his reality or everyone elses . BB7's offer great deal more braking than rim brakes , especially in the wet . I run a set and have no doubt they are better than rim brakes .


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Maybe Dremer works there?


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## mullen119 (Aug 30, 2009)

:thumbsup: BB7's are better the rim brakes by far. You would be very happy with them. Some people consider them better then low end Hydros.:thumbsup:


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## bRyAZSig228 (Jan 25, 2010)

I say stay away as far as you can from that bike shop.


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## ireland57 (Sep 11, 2009)

I've had v-brakes, cable discs and now hydraulic brakes.

The cable discs are by far and away better than the V's.

This is only a "one of" but I rode a very steep downhill last year which took 20 minutes.
No brake fade at all and they worked great from top to bottom.

I'd not be game to do that drop at that speed with V's.


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## emtnate (Feb 9, 2008)

On dry days, I did not notice a big difference between by bb-7 and my rim brakes. I could lock the wheels up just as easily with either set up. Any other time during any other conditions, the discs were vastly superior. So unless you only ride where there is a trail of dust getting kicked up behind you, I'd say you are better off with BB-7.


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## Brodino (Sep 15, 2008)

Pure nonsense. Stay away from his shop....


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I'm with emtnate - not a whole lot of difference in easy conditions, a world of difference in mud, snow, etc.

Also, it's very easy to upgrade from V-brakes to mechanical discs if your hubs and frame will accept them - you don't need new levers, and don't even need to rerun all your housing, although you probably should.

On the other hand, people who've been on both will tell you that hydros are vastly superior to mechanical discs.


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## Dremer03 (Jun 19, 2009)

mbmb65 said:


> Maybe Dremer works there?


Maybe you work there, keep my user name out of topics that I have not posted in.

BTW BB7's are way better than all V-Brakes, especially in adverse conditions. If you ride in wet, mud, or winter conditions you will want Disc Brakes.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

emtnate said:


> On dry days, I did not notice a big difference between by bb-7 and my rim brakes. I could lock the wheels up just as easily with either set up. Any other time during any other conditions, the discs were vastly superior. So unless you only ride where there is a trail of dust getting kicked up behind you, I'd say you are better off with BB-7.


Personally, I don't think that "locking the wheels up" is an accurate way to describe a brakes strength. Cantilevers and even centerpulls can lock up a wheel. To me it has more to do with modulation, or the ability to manage the power, with less strength at the lever. Hydros come in a number 1, with cable actuated discs in the #2 position. Rim brakes come in in 3'rd place. Of course this all just my opinion, but I'd lose the shop.


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

Dremer03 said:


> Maybe you work there, keep my user name out of topics that I have not posted in.
> 
> BTW BB7's are way better than all V-Brakes, especially in adverse conditions. If you ride in wet, mud, or winter conditions you will want Disc Brakes.


No, I like bringing your name up when someone says something silly.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

Hill_Lover said:


> Pure nonsense. Stay away from his shop....


+1 now that's a pure sales man...... Just looking for a sale I'm recently back on a set of v's on my commuter after about 3 years on disks. I have to say though a properly set up XTR v brake set will almost touch bb7's IMHO for dry weather running but still leaves much to be desired modulation wise!


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## BlurredVision (Jul 1, 2007)

Larger rotors on disk brakes have more stopping power than the smaller ones. This is because you have a greater mechanical advantage the farter out from rotational center you get. The same mechanical advantage comes into play with v-brakes. In theory, v-brakes would have better stopping power.

Rims tend to retain heat more than a rotor will though which comes into play in long periods of braking. You can't really cross drill holes in your rims to vent it. V-brake pads tend to be rubber, tackier but soft enough as to not destroys a rim. 

All in all, when in dry conditions, properly set up v-brakes vs. properly set up disks is probably a wash. That said, cheap v-brakes will out perform cheap disks almost every time, the BB7 being about the only real exception.

Where disks shine is in the wet and the mud. V-brakes clamp obviously right on the rim, the part that gets coated in mud and of course comes up to cover your brakes in it. The disks are better at shedding water and are farther removed from the muck.

Much of it will depend on your style of riding and the conditions you ride in. My v-brakes do the job more than adequately and will send my 200lb @$$ over the bars on demand. Do you really need more? 

Some day I will have disks as they do have other appealing factors. More asthetically appealing, easier to remove wheels, and some day I might get the urge to play in the mud.


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## emtnate (Feb 9, 2008)

mbmb65 said:


> Personally, I don't think that "locking the wheels up" is an accurate way to describe a brakes strength. Cantilevers and even centerpulls can lock up a wheel. To me it has more to do with modulation, or the ability to manage the power, with less strength at the lever.


It wasn't just locking the wheels up either. After getting the V's properly adjusted, I had good modulation as well. It took little effort to apply as much or as little braking force as was needed. I was using the same levers for both brakes as well as full length housing.. (Avid SD-7)

There are many more benefits to the mechs though. Everything was different in adverse conditions. I still stopped with a little bit of mud on the rim, which was a problem with the Vs. After creek crossings, the discs were just as powerful as the were dry, only much louder. I have canti's on my cross bike, and I can manage the power just as well with them.

Since then, I've switched to hydros on the mountain bike. I got a good deal on some Stroker Trail's from another forum, and they are a night and day difference. Everything is better with the hyrdos and I don't see myself going back to mechs.


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## gadget bike (Nov 15, 2009)

*Thanks*

Thanks for helping me come to a decision about choosing to buy the disc brakes. I will be ordering a new wheel set and BB7 disc brakes tonight. One last stupid question: How do I tell which rotor size I need?


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## emtnate (Feb 9, 2008)

The right rotor size more or less depends on your weight and how aggressive you ride. You will also want to make sure your frame and fork can handle whichever size you decide. Bigger rotors offer better braking power. If you have long descents, you'll want a bigger rotor to dissipate heat better.

I found 185mm rotor on the front with a 160mm on the back to be ideal.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

X 2 , should be good for most situations .


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## mtbGreg (Feb 15, 2010)

I ran rim brakes back in the day and upgrading to hydraulic disc brakes was such an improvement!

A couple years go by, and I'd worn the crap out of my brakes. With input from my lbs, decided it would be cheaper to switch to avid bb7 mechanicals, and it's probably going to be less maintenance as well.

Long story short: my mechanical disc brakes work just as well as my hydraulics. They feel awesome, especially after dealing with worn out brakes.



So yes, whoever you called was full of crap


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## mbmb65 (Jan 13, 2004)

emtnate said:


> It wasn't just locking the wheels up either. After getting the V's properly adjusted, I had good modulation as well. It took little effort to apply as much or as little braking force as was needed. I was using the same levers for both brakes as well as full length housing.. (Avid SD-7)
> 
> There are many more benefits to the mechs though. Everything was different in adverse conditions. I still stopped with a little bit of mud on the rim, which was a problem with the Vs. After creek crossings, the discs were just as powerful as the were dry, only much louder. I have canti's on my cross bike, and I can manage the power just as well with them.
> 
> Since then, I've switched to hydros on the mountain bike. I got a good deal on some Stroker Trail's from another forum, and they are a night and day difference. Everything is better with the hyrdos and I don't see myself going back to mechs.


Yeah, I hear ya. I should have added that the braking force is also related to load. On my full rigid, linear pulls are more than enough. On the same terrain, on my 35#, dual squishy big bike, rim brakes of any kind would leave me for dead! With the speeds allowed, discs are a must imo. And When I use the rigid bike to tow my boy in the Chariot, on some of the same terrain, the rim brakes cannot keep up the ghost! Kinda scary, really, especially for my wife! Good stuff.


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## gadget bike (Nov 15, 2009)

160 mm 203 mm 185 mm are the three dif sizes but how do i know which one fits my bike


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## gadget bike (Nov 15, 2009)

I will post pics of bike in the morning i have to go to work.


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## JCullen (Oct 20, 2009)

If your frame has the mount, you'll be able to get a 160 in the back, but may have issues going bigger, I know a 185 would likely ride up against my chainstay. (older frame) A 185 in the front should be doable if you want or need it. I simply went 160 on the front as well and it still stops better than my old v-brakes did.


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

It depends on the person you talk to, I love my bb7's but I had a riding buddy a couple years ago that tried some hydro's on his bike at one time or another but still prefered the feel of his v's. On the other hand though he was a ti. nut and a weight weenie, so he may have had different preferences.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

gadget bike said:


> I called Nat's outdoor sporting goods the other day. when i talked to the guy in the bike shop I told him that i was interested in upgrading my v brakes to a set of bb7 disk brakes, He said that "unless i got hydros that i was wasting my time and money" he also said "v brakes have more stopping power than mechanical disk brakes". IMO he doesn't know what he is talking about, however i have been biking about 2 years he has worked in a bike shop for 10 years. so is this information correct or incorrect?


I ran v's for years, and had them on at least one of my mountain bikes up until a couple of years ago (still have them on my commuter). I've been running bb7's on at least one bike for about 7 years. So, I have run v's and bb7's at the same time (on different bikes) for about 5 years, so I had plenty of time to compare them.

Under dry conditions, I think properly set up v's with good pads are comparable to bb7's (with 6" rotors) in shear stopping power over short distances. However, there is a lot more to this.

1- I find I have much better CONTROL over the braking with bb7s. 
2- V's fade MUCH faster than bb7s under prolonged heavy braking. 
3- V's are affected by water, mud, snow, bb7s are not. 
4- While braking power of v's under ideal conditions is comparable with 6" rotors, if you go up to even a 7" rotor, the bb7s are stronger than v's, even under perfect conditions for v's.

Long of the short is that bb7's are a significant improvement to the best of v's, IMO. With a 7" rotor in the front, they will be more powerful, have better control, less fade, and be less effected by mud and water than v's.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

v brakes are more powerful,for endo's in the bikeshop parking lot while on a test ride.Disc brakes only get better from there on,for one thing the braking surface doesn't get wet in a 2 inch deep puddle.... oh yeah here's another one, brake performance doesn't suffer when you warp your wheel a little. disk brakes will never slice your sidewall.. pads are actually easier to swap out yourself..


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## BigSharks (Oct 4, 2009)

I agree with the theme of the answers here and I ride bb5, not even the 7s.


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

gadget bike said:


> I called Nat's outdoor sporting goods the other day. when i talked to the guy in the bike shop I told him that i was interested in upgrading my v brakes to a set of bb7 disk brakes, He said that "unless i got hydros that i was wasting my time and money" he also said "v brakes have more stopping power than mechanical disk brakes". IMO he doesn't know what he is talking about, however i have been biking about 2 years he has worked in a bike shop for 10 years. so is this information correct or incorrect?


Bollocks I say.

Back maybe 10 years ago many cable discs were not very good (the Formula being one of them).

Now, even the cheap Hayes cables stop harder than V's and don't rip your rims to bits after a bit of mud.

My Klein HT has XTR V's - no shortage of power when it's dry but they will tear the rims up with a bit of mud in them and lose a fair bit of power when wet or with extended use (downhills). My son's entry level KHS has Hayes HMX 2's on it and they crap all over the V's in every respect.


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## Noobi-Wan Kenobi (Dec 24, 2007)

mbmb65 said:


> No, I like bringing your name up when someone says something silly.


Agree.


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