# Reducing output: Shimano E-Tube vs. Specialized Mission Control?



## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey, for those of you with first-hand experience with either/both systems... is there facility for reducing the amount of assistance each system can provide at the lowest level (Eco?) of assistance?

Is there a minimum level that is still a stair step above no-assistance? Or are there levels of assistance in which it's subtle, almost blended into no-assistance?

Is this also related to the system's rated power output?

Background:

My significant other test-rode a Specialized Turbo Levo SL. We were specifically asked to not modify its settings with Mission Control. She liked the bike, but she felt that she could use less assistance than Eco, as her primary intent is to be able to ride with me (I am on a manual bike, and I'm not fast).

We'd like an E-bike drive system to be tunable to lower/more-subtle assistance than what we found with the Specialized Turbo Levo SL, which was presumably in its stock, un-tweaked form.

I am also warming-up to the idea of E-bikes for the purpose of epics and car-less approaches to the trailhead. So neither of us are opposed to the idea of full-power E-bikes. We'll test ride some to see if the increased weights will be obtrusive. We would be "standardizing" on either both "lite" E-bikes or both full-power E-bikes. (Not to imply that we intend on buying them simultaneously.) But is it too much to ask for 60/70/85-Newton-meter Shimano E-bike drives to be tunable to lower assistance than what is stock Eco mode of the 35-Newton-meter-rated SL 1.1? I do not intend on eschewing manual bike riding.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Love to hear other answer your question as I might be enlightened. I am only aware of the ability to do what you say restricted to systems with open software where you can program in the characteristics that you want. I am aware of Bafang with opens software. There may be others now.


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## RDO (Apr 26, 2016)

I have the Creo (which has the same motor as the Levo SL) and Mission Control will allow me to set the power assist to lower than 35% which is the default. 

I just checked it on my bike in the garage. Haven't actually operated the bike thus. So I would answer with a qualified "yes".


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Just picked up two STEPS E8000 bikes last night. I was shocked by a few things, including how powerful the ECO mode was. I ended up riding around (on a late night urban quest to bed the studs) mostly with it off (these are e-fat bikes - I am sure that the ECO mode will not feel so intrusive on snow and in the mountains on my usual 3 season trails). 

The manual and app are not particularly user friendly. I tried to dive into it late last night but fell into a deep sleep. 

I am going to do a deep dive this weekend but from what I understand from a lightning quick google search, ECO mode may not be tweakable (a forum member had PMed me before about this, stating the same).

More to come...


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Shimano bikes can have their assist levels tuned. The newest EP8 drive system takes that a bit further. But in short, yes they can be adjusted via the ETube app(s).


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Shimano bikes can have their assist levels tuned. The newest EP8 drive system takes that a bit further. But in short, yes they can be adjusted via the ETube app(s).


I beg to differ. So far from what I see, not ECO mode. At least not on the Shimano STEPS E8000.

Do you know this from personal experience? I have two of them sitting in front of me as I type.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I beg to differ. So far from what I see, not ECO mode. At least not on the Shimano STEPS E8000.
> 
> Do you know this from personal experience? I have two of them sitting in front of me as I type.


On an E8000 system, ECO has three levels of adjustment. On an EP8 system, you can customize far more - assist curves + maximum torque.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I beg to differ. So far from what I see, not ECO mode. At least not on the Shimano STEPS E8000.
> 
> Do you know this from personal experience? I have two of them sitting in front of me as I type.


Make sure you have the latest app and latest firmware installed also.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

I have a Levo SL and with Mission control the assistance will go down to 0% and peak power can go down to 10%. Both can be adjusted up in 5% increments. Also note that on the SL the assistance levels change acceleration, each one getting faster responding to your input. I often just put all levels at the same settings, that way I just have an acceleration change. Remember she can also run the bike in off. I do that a lot on flat and downhills. The bike changes quickly between off and on. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

RickBullottaPA said:


> On an E8000 system, ECO has three levels of adjustment. On an EP8 system, you can customize far more - assist curves + maximum torque.


Apologies. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.

I am lost right now. I am not finding Shimano to be very good at providing understandable support on the STEPS E8000 system. In fact, I rate Shimano as a complete fail on this.

I hate them right now.

Is there a decent source where I can get up to speed on the electronic side of these bikes - the display settings and app in particular?

The links at the Shimano site don't even lead to where they are supposed to (e.g.; the link for the STEPS E8000 user manual).

Very frustrating Shimano. Complete bullshit.

EDIT: found the manual. Unimpressed. Shimano needs to get their **** together on providing support for these e-bikes. Whoever is responsible for this should be terminated.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

DtEW said:


> Hey, for those of you with first-hand experience with either/both systems... is there facility for reducing the amount of assistance each system can provide at the lowest level (Eco?) of assistance?
> 
> Is there a minimum level that is still a stair step above no-assistance? Or are there levels of assistance in which it's subtle, almost blended into no-assistance?
> 
> ...


I think you are over thinking this. It is likely that your significant other may be so fit and athletic (compared to you) that she could ride the SL with the motor off! Plus, she would have the option of ECO on those long boring sustained climbs - and for that ride home from the trailhead. I say buy two Ebikes and be done with it!


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

I actually do not think you are overthinking it at all. I would never purchase an e-bike that I could not tune the assistance level and power output levels. A lightweight rider needs very different assistance than a heavier rider. Being able to tune your bike lets each rider have their own riding experience. It also lets you fine tune your range based on the ride of the day. Heck I modify my settings based on each ride condition and length (will it be super sandy, super steep, epic day etc.) 
As for using the e-bike to get to trailheads the SL provides plenty of power to get there. You will just take a little longer (couple of min) but no big deal. I do this all the time camping in Utah where I have a Sprinter RV I keep as a base camp and ride from there.

*I had a ff Levo for over 2 years and have had the SL since the release date last Feb. I have also have a CreoSL


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## CucMan (Dec 18, 2018)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Make sure you have the latest app and latest firmware installed also.


My initial bad steer on this. I had an older version of the eTube app - three mode ECO was added with Ver. 3.4.3 in May 2019. Stock ECO was at roughly 60% and frankly had not updated my app as I never had a personal reason to modify it. I did tweak TRAIL and BOOST.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Get the STunlocker app for Shimano Steps 8000 it works much better than the Shimano app....


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

For anybody coming from an acoustic background who might (like me) be a little in the dark on the Shimano STEPS E8000, as mentioned above, customization of ECO mode was added to TRAIL and BOOST modes by way of a prior firmware update, accessible via the Shimano e-Tube Project app:

https://ebike-mtb.com/en/shimano-e-tube-update-2019/














Unrelated to the OP but with the intention of assisting others as equally in the dark on the whole e-bike world, in the course of trying to get up the curve, I ran across the following, which is at least a start:

https://si.shimano.com/pdfs/sm/SM-SHIMANO_STEPS_US-000.pdf

I also learned that cadence is a thing, and that 80 to 100 is apparently the recommended sweet spot, with cadence being able to be set so that it can be shown on the display (jump to 6:50):






Looking forward to hopefully discovering some joy with my daughter that e-fat biking may bring to this otherwise cold, dark, dreary, looooooong winter.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Apologies. I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out.
> 
> I am lost right now. I am not finding Shimano to be very good at providing understandable support on the STEPS E8000 system. In fact, I rate Shimano as a complete fail on this.
> 
> ...


No worries! I agree with you 1000% that Shimano's software (mostly) sucks and their docs suck. Stunlocker is a good (and more capable) alternative, but you'll still need Shimano's app(s) for firmware updates.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Here is an excerpt from the Service Manual found at the link in my post above.









Not sure if that's helpful, and obviously it is pre-firmware update so there is no option listed in it to tweak ECO mode. But given that we now know that ECO mode is set at high in the default Dynamic Mode, and that we now have medium and low available as options, one can guess on the graph above where the medium and low ECO modes fall as well.

Not sure OP if that is helpful or not. Giving it my best shot though, despite my relative e-ignorance.

Frankly I think the default ECO mode on my Bigfoot is way overpowered but I haven't got around yet to messing with the app to lower it.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Both systems are fairly easy to tune how you want them to feel. For the Shimano, the Shimano app is ok, but the 2 aftermarket ones: eMax and Stunlocker??? Make the Shimano system super tunable! 

Specialized Brose tuning is absolutely amazing what you can tune on that bike. Plus whatever tune you use, you can name it and save it! I’ve got 5 tunes saved in Mission Control. 
Mission control allows you to tune these: rider input, motor power out put, acceleration and shuttle mode. Plus a heart rate control to tune automatically the power output. 

There is also a very cool aftermarket app BLEvo that allows all the above controls and a few added features as well. Some say BLEvo is better than Mission Control. If you use your phone on your bars, BLEvo gives you tons of information and controls. BLEvo also works great for downloading rides you’ve never been on and following the unknown ride with an incredibly accurate map with tracks! 


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