# Repop Ritchey Z Max Classic 2.35 skin wall tires



## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Not really a "for sale" post but gauging the interest level. We have discussed making a Ritchey Z Max Classic tire in a 2.35" width with a natural color skin side wall. These would be the same tread pattern that Ritchey currently sells. Prices would likely be $39.99 with a wire bead or $49.99 with the Kevlar bead. This looks to be about $8 more per tire than Ritchey sells the black wall version for on there web site. 

If we have these made, should it be the wire or Kevlar version? How many would you be interested in purchasing (for real)?

The minimums are kinda scary on these so I don't want to make a buying error.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

2.35 in a skinwall? Sounds perfect for heavy old farts like me riding old rigid bikes looking for a smoother ride while keeping a classic look. I pinch flat pretty often on my Ritchey running 2.1's and I would like a little extra volume so I don't have to run such high pressure to keep from flatting. I would be down for 2 pairs of wire bead at that price. Not sure if I would opt for the kevlar.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

I'd love to have a vintage looking fatty available. I just bought a pair of current 2.35s, and as much as it kills me to put them on my old bikes, my back needs the extra cushion. Put me down for at least one set, kevlar preferred, but I'd take wire if there was no choice.

Thanks Jeff for putting in the effort.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Ooh, I totally called it 

I'd probably end up buying a pair. Kevlar would be my preference but $100 a set is beyond what I'd usually spend on tires. Hmm...


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

2.1 WCS Kevlar would be better


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

scooderdude said:


> 2.1 WCS Kevlar would be better


+1 I'm with Scooter on this one,,,,what's vintage about a 2.35" tire. Or is the 2.35 mold the only thing available? If it is, I guess I'm glad it's not my money venturing into 2.35 inventory.


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## babbalanja (Jan 20, 2008)

+2 on the 2.1 Kevlar, but I'd buy a set of 2.35 kevlars if that's what you end up with.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

2.35 WCS in the skinwall but red compound.


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## rasumichin (Oct 21, 2008)

Hi there, I would like to have 4 in the kevlar version. If you would ship these great tires outside the US.
Ciao,
Alexander


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## harzkristall (Jul 6, 2006)

sounds great! but make it in soft red! please!


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

2.35 skin wall black.

Wire bead is my vote, it's not a racing tire anymore (although I USED to race them way back when).

Wire or Kevlar, I'd buy some!

I'd take a 2.35 over the Timbuk II's any day.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Jeff, I like the idea of a large volume skin-walled tire. This would not be my first choice for a tire, but it's a lot better than no choice. 

For me, the kevlar bead is the way to go. While the $10 per tire difference is not insignificant, the majority of your sales (I'd imagine) would require shipping. Since a foldable tire fits into a smaller box than a wire bead tire, the shipping difference would quickly offset much of the extra cost. I'd rather have a nice tire shipped cheap, than an average tire shipped expensively.

As others have said, $100 for a pair of tires is pretty high. And it's really high when one considers that the selling point is the color of the side-wall. For that kind of money, I'd rather order a pair of tires that I really wanted, and not one a pair that made my bike look nicer. At the price, I don't think they'll sell like hot cakes.

I'd probably buy one set, and if after riding them I thought that they were a really nice tire, I'd possibly buy more. But if they're only an "okay tire" I'd have trouble parting with $100 in order to get the fancy side-wall.


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## stefan9113 (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi,

4 pice $49.99 with the Kevlar skinwall black 2,35

bye Stefan


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi, do you have a website or a list of what ya got avalible?


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## Horst Link (Nov 23, 2004)

As i remember the original 2,35" Z-MAX had a bigger volume than one you can buy today. If there is any difference do you want to use old or current moulds? And would the sidewall graphics look like the old ones?

Horsti


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

harzkristall said:


> sounds great! but make it in soft red! please!


ditto! :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

theMeat said:


> Hi, do you have a website or a list of what ya got avalible?


They do.

http://mombat.org/MOMBAT/PartsForSalePages/tires.html


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

2.35 was avails back then...so its not out of line to reissue them. I think airing down a larger volume tire so soften the blow on these old rigid bikes would be nice. The only issue might possibly be clearance.

I have two sets of Timbuk II's from FFB and they're awesome.

I think red would be neat too, but possibly a more difficult sell to the masses.


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## jacdykema (Apr 10, 2006)

I would take a pair at least. I'd be more excited about the 2.1's in black but would take 2.35 if that's all you had.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

I'd get a set of skin's, steel beaded. 2.35 is certainly retro. I was running big tires like that BITD.

Selling something WCS and Red would only suit a very few riders, and being as these are already on the spendy side, imagine what a set of WCS would cost. Sure ain't $49.99.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Laffeux's point on the packablilty of kevlar is a good one.

Ritchey doesn't care about this?

I remember being so pumped when the black wall Smokes came out... funny.

-Schmitty-


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## Guest (May 8, 2010)

*Ritchey Megabite Zmax*

I would be more interested in the old mold and graphics of the RITCHEY MEGABITE ZMAX, than the new RITCHEY CLASSIC.

Jeff, is this even an option?


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## Rev. Gusto (Mar 3, 2004)

I'm interested if they have the Ground Control tread.


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Rev. Gusto said:


> I'm interested if they have the Ground Control tread.


That would be a Specialized tire, not a Ritchey; different companies.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

The idea was to offer a little fatter tire which would both complement the smaller Timbuk II that we sell and give a tire with more cushioning for the old bikes. It isn't a 1980's tire but still relatively "vintage" and Ritchey is probably a more popular tire. A 2.35" tire is also sellable as a current tire. We do sell Timbuk IIs to folks who want something a little bit different on there current bikes. It will also fit almost all vintage bikes. I know we have one American bike that has 2.35 tires on it and there is a little bit of rub on the chain stays. If that is an issue, go with the Panaracers. 

Red would be cool but I can't see it being a worthwhile project at 500 pieces. 

The Kevlar beaded versions are really pushing the price envelope already and a WCS version would be noticeably more expensive. Again, don't think it would be a wise investment.

Kevlar tires are both easier and cheaper for us to ship. They will fit in a much smaller box. It seems like the Kevlar version is more desirable as well. With that in mind, we'll probably do a Kevlar beaded version.

I have inquired about the price of the 2.1 tires. On the Ritchey web site, there is a $9 price decrease to go to a 2.1 tire. If the 2.1 is that much less expensive to us, I might go 2.1.

Hopefully, we'll have answers soon. Thanks for your input.


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## Guest (May 10, 2010)

*Ritchey 2.1*

Hi Jeff, their 2.1 version is the ZMAX Evolution, shorter knobs and spaced wider. The 2.3 ZMAX Classic is their true ZMAX design. Have you tried their 2.3 Blackwall to get an idea of it's true size?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

shawnw said:


> Hi Jeff, their 2.1 version is the ZMAX Evolution, shorter knobs and spaced wider. The 2.3 ZMAX Classic is their true ZMAX design. Have you tried their 2.3 Blackwall to get an idea of it's true size?


Yep, we've got a pair of the current ones mounted up on some rims here at the shop so we could check them out.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

First Flight said:


> The idea was to offer a little fatter tire which would both complement the smaller Timbuk II that we sell and give a tire with more cushioning for the old bikes. It isn't a 1980's tire but still relatively "vintage" and Ritchey is probably a more popular tire.


Funny how none of those "old bikes" never needed extra fluff cushioning when they were originally spec'd Makes me wonder if they really need it now? Obviously not if people are sticking close to original specs. A 2.1 would be vintage and is the more popular of the two sizes. They seem to be bringing top dollar from a particular eBay seller. I would think you would be all over that action Jeff.
I know you guys do a ton of work to maintain and spread the goodness of vintage bikes but I also wonder how one retailer/e-tailer/shop gets so much free reign and advertising on multiple websites to improve their bottom line without paying for it or having their bottom line reduced by listing fees? Guess you guys are loving the free in "free enterprise"?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

lol. totally. Jeff is such a fat cat and does nothing but profit off the VRC scene.

I was at Charlie Cunningham's place when he was drawing the GC Extreme 2.5 tires. I flipped at how cool they were and was psyched when they came out. Raced those tires at the Canadian Nationals in Canmore and I can tell you, I liked the cush!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

gm1230126 said:


> Funny how none of those "old bikes" never needed extra fluff cushioning when they were originally spec'd Makes me wonder if they really need it now? Obviously not if people are sticking close to original specs. A 2.1 would be vintage and is the more popular of the two sizes. They seem to be bringing top dollar from a particular eBay seller. I would think you would be all over that action Jeff.
> I know you guys do a ton of work to maintain and spread the goodness of vintage bikes but I also wonder how one retailer/e-tailer/shop gets so much free reign and advertising on multiple websites to improve their bottom line without paying for it or having their bottom line reduced by listing fees? Guess you guys are loving the free in "free enterprise"?


Fcukin' ingrate.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I could dig some 2.5s. But between the two former options for ZMax, I'd prefer a 2.3.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

That's me; take, take, take


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

This is Jeff!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

bushpig said:


> lol. totally. Jeff is such a fat cat and does nothing but profit off the VRC scene.
> 
> I was at Charlie Cunningham's place when he was drawing the GC Extreme 2.5 tires. I flipped at how cool they were and was psyched when they came out. Raced those tires at the Canadian Nationals in Canmore and I can tell you, I liked the cush!


I think for their size the casing was too flimsy. If you aired them down enough to take advantage of the extra cush they could offer I thought they were way too flexy in the corners. I tried one on the rear for a DH race or two BITD (musta been 91) and ran it at normal 2.1ish pressures and with the extra height it offered a little more pinch flat protection. Made my bike look kinda like a Stingray.  Didn't care for them much as a front tire.

The 2.5 tires now are pretty stout.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Wonder if there is a retailer conspiracy thread in the make?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

chefmiguel said:


> Wonder if there is a retailer conspiracy thread in the make?


Black smoke billowing from the Star Chambers Compound in the distance....


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Words like that could only come from the from the self titled Mafia Don himself Mr. VRC Iluminati


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

chefmiguel said:


> Wonder if there is a retailer conspiracy thread in the make?


If there is, we'd need to start it in another forum first probably. The weight weenie forum has Nino, this one has first flight, is Ibex's owner unbanned yet?


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

gm1230126 said:


> I know you guys do a ton of work to maintain and spread the goodness of vintage bikes but I also wonder how one retailer/e-tailer/shop gets so much free reign and advertising on multiple websites to improve their bottom line without paying for it or having their bottom line reduced by listing fees? Guess you guys are loving the free in "free enterprise"?


Funny, Jeff has contributed an amazing amount of his own time to developing the MOMBAT Museum/website for everyone to enjoy, including scanning in literature, writing history pages and assembling spec sheets for numerous brands, all of which is available free for the taking. He has also spent a lot of time raising awareness about VRC in numerous bicycling magazines.

GM, no one is forcing you to buy from First Flight and help Jeff's "bottom line." (and we all know how wealthy LBS owners are )


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

cousineddie said:


> GM, no one is forcing you to buy from First Flight and help Jeff's "bottom line." (and we all know how wealthy LBS owners are )


Thanks Cousin Eddie. The best way to become a millionaire in the bike industry is to start with two million:thumbsup:

Your avatar cracks me up. We sit down and watch that movie with the kids every year around Christmas. We had finally bought the VCR tape years ago and forgot about a few of the scenes that were obviously been cut for TV....oooops. Wore the VCR tape out and had to get the DVD last year.


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

First Flight said:


> Thanks Cousin Eddie. The best way to become a millionaire in the bike industry is to start with two million:thumbsup:
> 
> Your avatar cracks me up. We sit down and watch that movie with the kids every year around Christmas. We had finally bought the VCR tape years ago and forgot about a few of the scenes that were obviously been cut for TV....oooops. Wore the VCR tape out and had to get the DVD last year.


Very true, Jeff. I see what the owner of my LBS is going through. It takes him until sometime in April or May just to make enough to cover the overhead on the store.

We watch Christmas Vacation every year too. It's a classic, along with A Christmas Story and It's A Wonderful Life.:thumbsup:


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## MarzocchiMan (May 1, 2010)

cousineddie said:


> Funny, Jeff has contributed an amazing amount of his own time to developing the MOMBAT Museum/website for everyone to enjoy, including scanning in literature, writing history pages and assembling spec sheets for numerous brands, all of which is available free for the taking. He has also spent a lot of time raising awareness about VRC in numerous bicycling magazines.
> 
> GM, no one is forcing you to buy from First Flight and help Jeff's "bottom line." (and we all know how wealthy LBS owners are )


I wouldn't say that I am a collector (I have a couple old relics from my days wrenching on the circuit), but I'm curious as to how raising awareness about VRC in cycling mags going to help people shaking out all their local bushes for old bikes? I would reckon that when Joe Schmoe Ibis/Potts/Grove owner sees the VRC stuff in Dirt Rag he suddenly thinks his bike is a valuable collectors item.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

MarzocchiMan said:


> I would reckon that when Joe Schmoe Ibis/Potts/Grove owner sees the VRC stuff in Dirt Rag he suddenly thinks his bike is a valuable collectors item.


That's a bad thing. Especialy if its my size.


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## cousineddie (Oct 23, 2008)

MarzocchiMan said:


> I wouldn't say that I am a collector (I have a couple old relics from my days wrenching on the circuit), but I'm curious as to how raising awareness about VRC in cycling mags going to help people shaking out all their local bushes for old bikes? I would reckon that when Joe Schmoe Ibis/Potts/Grove owner sees the VRC stuff in Dirt Rag he suddenly thinks his bike is a valuable collectors item.


It's a double-edged sword. Raising awareness could drive prices of VRC bikes up. (is that really so bad if you already have a collection?  ) However, if manufacturers sense there is a sizeable interest in VRC bikes, it could lead to reproductions of hard-to-find parts/tires that many collectors need to finish projects.

In the 1990's, Schwinn brought out a whole line of reproduction bikes and parts to satisfy the collector market. It could happen with the bikes we collect.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

MarzocchiMan said:


> I would reckon that when Joe Schmoe Ibis/Potts/Grove owner sees the VRC stuff in Dirt Rag he suddenly thinks his bike is a valuable collectors item.


It's better to think that it's a collector's item than to think that it's rubbish that ends up in either the town dump or the recycling center.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Plus, the added benefit of more inventory in the marketplace.


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## mfh126 (Jul 31, 2007)

I'd be in for a pair of the Kevlar versiion.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

There was a big USA Today story back in the mid-1990's that featured some classic balloon tired bikes. I think the author interviewed some collectors that either wanted to seem "rich" or were just delusional on the values of the old bikes. That one did sting since it was widely circulated and optimistic on the prices. Bikes were drug out of bars due to that article but everyone thought the had found "the lost Cobra in the barn". Didn't really help collectors.

The stuff I write for Dirt Rag doesn't have any pricing and any time an author asks for price ranges, I always make sure to quote fairly reasonable prices.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I don't think any of us are really in it for the money...so if prices stay low, I'm ok with that.
(not that its not fun to flip every now and again)


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

I always ride vintage because of the chick magnet factor. Now that I am married, I guess I can leave you guys and go hang out on the downhill forum....


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Here is the results of the Saturday tire fitting session. We took a Ritchey 2.35" tire mounted to a Sun rim and checked the clearance on some older bikes. The rim is wider than most vintage rims but we wanted to test "worst case". I think most forks would accept the tire so we just checked clearance on the rear.

Bikes that we checked that the tire will not fit:
Pinarello ATB
Timble
Diamond Back Apex
Bridgestone
Specialized S Works
Merlin
American

Bikes that the tire would roll but would rub when cornering:
Ritchey
Fisher
Klein Mantra (hits front derailleur)

Bikes that would work: 
Mantis Flying V
Diamond Back Arrival
Schwinn Paramount

So 10 out of 13 vintage bikes would not accept the tires. Looks like the 2.1 might be the better option?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Wow, that's awesome that you checked. I'd probably be less interested in a 2.1 than the 2.35--- between Yo's and the Salsa I can handle pretty wide tires and the the attraction to running them would be the higher volume.


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Thanks for checking all those fittments. For the record, I've been running modern 2.3s on my Miyata and my Gecko both with no problems. The Fat Wicked looks like it will go but might be a little close at the chain stays.


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

I agree the 2.1 is better all around.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Very few vrc bikes would take the 2.3 in the back.

Elevated stays as mentioned should be ok, but even those may have fd rub issues in the granny...exacerbated by bb flex.

-Schmitty-


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> Very few vrc bikes would take the 2.3 in the back.
> 
> Elevated stays as mentioned should be ok, but even those may have fd rub issues in the granny...exacerbated by bb flex.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Even the ones that the tires "fit" were pretty close and would likely rub with a rider sitting on them and/or cornering.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Any tire is going to rub if you sit on it.


........I'll get me coat.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

All Marin, Kona, Brodie and Rocky Mountains from the late 80s thru mid 90s fit the Ritchey 2.35 Z-Max's just fine. Kona had full 2.2 tires in their own product lineup, Rocky was the Ritchey distributor for canada for a good number of years and spec'ed Ritchey tires heavily and were one of the OEM customers along with Marin for many of those 2.35s that convinced Ritchey to offer them.


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

muddybuddy said:


> Thanks for checking all those fittments. For the record, I've been running modern 2.3s on my Miyata and my Gecko both with no problems. The Fat Wicked looks like it will go but might be a little close at the chain stays.


I ran them on my 1st gen Monster, which was a Wicked. The fit if: rear rim was perfectly centered. Barely cleared, same for the front unicrown fork. I ran them, raced with them, but, not really practical, as they would rub if the stars were not aligned. I ended up trading them away...

Yo Eddy: no problems at all.

2.1's would still be good. I still use a well worn set from time to time.

I have a set of 1.9s and 1.7s too. 1.9s were fast, 1.7s pretty thin, I used them for 'cross.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

I have a 2.35 Z-Max on the front of my Ritchey (Logic fork). Fits fine. Won't fit out back though.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, I think a majority of the forks would accept the tire but probably 3/4 of the vintage bikes wouldn't have clearance around the stays. If we did 2.1 and 2.35, you might be able to mix n' match but that would be 1,000 tires which isn't gonna happen. Leaning 2.1 more and more. Maybe a few more test fitments today to confirm/


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> All Marin, Kona, Brodie and Rocky Mountains from the late 80s thru mid 90s fit the Ritchey 2.35 Z-Max's just fine. Kona had full 2.2 tires in their own product lineup, Rocky was the Ritchey distributor for canada for a good number of years and spec'ed Ritchey tires heavily and were one of the OEM customers along with Marin for many of those 2.35s that convinced Ritchey to offer them.


That's not true about the Konas. Don't have the breakdown by year, but there were some years that they barely would fit a 2.1 Velociraptor.. this is around when the Hot had the flutted dt. The Ti bikes are also lacking for cs clearance.

-Schmitty-


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Oh early to mid-90s steel Jamis frames fit the Nevegal 2.35s so the Ritcheys would be fine also.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

I agree that the 2.1" tire likely has a greater market. "Back in the day" I really liked a 2.1" Dart up front and a 1.9" Smoke in the rear. And today, if I could only use one size tire, it would be a 2.1". The mix-and-match 2.35" and 2.1" would be nice, but since it's not a real option, a 2.1" front and rear (or the option of a Timbuk2" in the rear) seems to be a better choice.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Checked a couple more bikes:
Klein Adroit would be fine for clearance

A couple of Fat Chance and Ibis frames did not have adequate clearance for the 2.35" tires in the rear.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Or one could just order a mix of 5,000 Smokes and Darts in 2.1 amber walls and hire another person to just pack and ship tires all day That relationship already exists.


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

*Tire*



Rumpfy said:


> I have a 2.35 Z-Max on the front of my Ritchey (Logic fork). Fits fine. Won't fit out back though.


That tire looks way to snug, you better give it to me


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

shawnw said:


> That tire looks way to snug, you better give it to me


Sure. Trade it for a 2.1 red tread.


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

gm1230126 said:


> Or one could just order a mix of 5,000 Smokes and Darts in 2.1 amber walls and hire another person to just pack and ship tires all day That relationship already exists.


....??


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## Guest (May 18, 2010)

*2.1*

I feel the Ritchey 2.1 ZMAX is a perfect choice for the guy's that have 90's era bikes. I run 1 bike with a 2.1 in front and 1.9 in back. I run another bike with a 2.35 up front with a 2.1 in the rear. All these are Ritchey ZMAX. I would be great if you did every size and color, but that's not realistic. So, with that being said, go for the size that will work for everyone, the 2.1. Here is how the 2.1 fits on my Ritchey.
[/ATTACH]


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

First Flight said:


> Bikes that would work:
> Mantis Flying V


The Flying V will eat Specialized Extreme 2.5's with room for dessert


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

From a practicality and marketability stand point, I have to agree with Shawnw. As much as I would like to have access to the 2.35s, the 2.1s are going to be more sellable.


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

gm1230126 said:


> Or one could just order a mix of 5,000 Smokes and Darts in 2.1 amber walls and hire another person to just pack and ship tires all day


+2 I would assume there is a huge market for the Smoke/Darts.

Apologize if its been asked previously, but what years were the Ritchey ZMAX amber walls in production?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Linoleum said:


> +2 I would assume there is a huge market for the Smoke/Darts./QUOTE]
> 
> They're already being reproduced. Not sure how "big" the market is.
> 
> ...


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Linoleum said:
> 
> 
> > +2 I would assume there is a huge market for the Smoke/Darts./QUOTE]
> ...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

shawnw said:


> I feel the Ritchey 2.1 ZMAX is a perfect choice for the guy's that have 90's era bikes. I run 1 bike with a 2.1 in front and 1.9 in back. I run another bike with a 2.35 up front with a 2.1 in the rear. All these are Ritchey ZMAX. I would be great if you did every size and color, but that's not realistic. So, with that being said, go for the size that will work for everyone, the 2.1. Here is how the 2.1 fits on my Ritchey.
> [/ATTACH]


Trade that tire for mine.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

I had talked to Panaracer about Smoke tan walls and they can be done. The issue we had was pricing. There are still a fair number of black wall Smokes out there that were made before the huge increases in the price of rubber. When I did some searches, you could find them for $25 or so in black side walls. Wasn't sure how much a premium someone would pay for having tan walls instead of black. The difference in the Ritchey price shouldn't be that great but the Panaracer difference would have been much greater.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

+1 on the 2.1's
I think its a great idea (unfortunately my meager current student lifestyle may not afford to buy them), black wall, skinwall, could care...

scored some smokes today, much to my delight, the are rare as down here.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Technically as far as mountain bikes go, blackwalls are perfectly vintage things. Joe Murray tires were coming standard with blackwalls in 1988-89.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

DeeEight said:


> Technically as far as mountain bikes go, blackwalls are perfectly vintage things. Joe Murray tires were coming standard with blackwalls in 1988-89.


Doesn't look as cool though. 

Like when people put 18-20" rims on vintage cars...doesn't look right.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Technically as far as mountain bikes go, blackwalls are perfectly vintage things. Joe Murray tires were coming standard with blackwalls in 1988-89.


The big difference is that you can walk into any bike shop on the planet and buy a huge number of black wall tires.........but nothing with natural tan sidewalls. And yes, I think they look much better on the older bikes, keeps the vintage "look".


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> Technically as far as mountain bikes go, blackwalls are perfectly vintage things. Joe Murray tires were coming standard with blackwalls in 1988-89.


True, but it doesn't go the other way. A nice set of skinwalls say vintage.


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## nutallabrot (Jul 12, 2005)

I'd also go with some 2,1 as 2.35 won't fit the bikes I need the tires for


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## Guest (May 20, 2010)

Rumpfy said:


> Trade that tire for mine.


Sounds like you have a single on your hand, you might as well send it my way..


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## SHADES (Feb 23, 2005)

Jeff, 2.1 Kevlars would be awesome! I just drug my 1990 Curtlo out of the barn and getting it ready. I'd take two or maybe even four.

JB


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

shawnw said:


> Sounds like you have a single on your hand, you might as well send it my way..


No, I'm just tired of all your posts about looking for tires!


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

How's this coming along? Any decision or - better yet - an ETA? I'd take at least 2 and maybe 4 of the 2.1s.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Ordered 500 2.1 Kevlar beaded tires. Don't have an official ETA yet though.


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## SHADES (Feb 23, 2005)

Sweet!


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## Jak0zilla (May 16, 2010)

First Flight said:


> Ordered 500 2.1 Kevlar beaded tires. Don't have an official ETA yet though.


Apologies if this has already been covered above, but how much do you anticipate charging for them?

And that's kevlar, _not_ WCS? (Totally understand about the expen$e of the WCS, and when it comes time to take out my wallet I certainly hesitate - but they really do ride better.)


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

These would be more of the "Pro" level tire, not WCS.

I am not sure of the pricing until they actually hit the door. Currency exchange rates and unknown shipping costs will affect the final pricing.


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## den haag (Feb 18, 2009)

i just put an old, booted pair on my cunningham, and i had forgotten how flimsy they are. i'd buy a couple pairs just 'cause i like the looks of them, but i'd love to see a run of ground comtrols.


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## Guest (Jul 16, 2010)

Jeff, GOOD JOB!! Thanks for all that you do for our sport/hobby  

I'm curious, what will the side labels say and look like?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

den haag said:


> i just put an old, booted pair on my cunningham, and i had forgotten how flimsy they are. i'd buy a couple pairs just 'cause i like the looks of them, but i'd love to see a run of ground comtrols.


How about posting a new thread with your ham?  Not that I'm not likin' all the Treks but I'm kinda parched and could use a lift.


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

In which years were the amber wall Ritchey ZMax tires originally produced? Are they appropriate for late 80s horses or early to mid 90s?


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## 805MTB (Jul 4, 2010)

I wouldn't mind riding some skinwalls just for nostalgia sake......but really doubt i would pay more than $25-$30 tire for it to be a regular rider tire (wire 2.1 is up my alley)


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

The Kevlar beads allow the tires to be folded which is important for shipping, especially for the overseas guys. It does add some cost but the cheaper shipping helps balance it out. Some of our most popular current tires sell for $50-$60 each.


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## Patagrande (Jul 26, 2010)

Hello all,

I have had a pair of the original Z-MAX kevlar tires on my 1990 Cannondale full rigid, since 1992, I think they are the WCS flavour, but I will check on that later. 
These are by far my favorite tire of all time, and although the bike sat for many years while I could not ride, (medical reasons) I dusted the bike off in late winter and started riding again.
To my surprise even the old pink latex tubes were fine so I started riding my new trails.

In the beginning until my skills got up to speed again, I had a couple of mishaps, one in particular where my pooch jumped in front of me and I ended up hitting a big boulder straight on, caused the old latex tube to split small 1/2 hole in the front 5" in the back.
I was amazed at the strength of the "peperoni" forks and also the Zmax casing. One knobby was almost torn, and I could see scuffing on the casing threads below it, 
The next day I brushed the spot and used some cyanocrilate to glue the knobby back on.
I continue to this day to ride this tire although I did swap with the rear, it has now over 500 miles since the incident on pretty abrasive rocky trails, and does not look any different.
My daily ride is 5.2 up single track and logging "roads" and 5.3 down reaching 35MPH, according to my old Cateye ATC ( the original) which after cleaning the battery goop and replacing with fresh one, has not missed a beat.)

I am 6.2 and weigh 250 pounds, and these tires have worked great for me, I pump 48-50 PSI max in the front and 58 in the back. To regain some of the feel of the high volume latex tube, which I have not been able to replace, I use a 2.4-2.75 butyl tube, which is OK but does not feel like its putting the same contact patch on the ground.
On the Ritchey rims that came with the bike, the kevlar bead fit OK but when I later build a new set with pretty shallow Mavic rims, which is what is on it right now, and the bead fits pretty loosely, so keep that in mind, I feel pretty safe with the pressures, above, but I have no tattoos and I am not the acrobat type, for me its about carving and flowing, so keep that in mind. 
Someone above mentioned using these tires for DH, that is a poor choice, I must say that from my perspective these tires appeal is first their high volume and shape, which plants a big fat contact patch that is inspiring, their 580g weight ( that is what is listed for the available Classic, but I would not be surprised these original skins are lighter, next time I take one off I will weight it) and their flexibility which makes them great climbers.
Wet or dry loose or not great all round tires.

I love these count me in on at least another set. BTW on the Cannondale clearance it not an issue.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Tires are supposed to be in production now but it will be 8 weeks before they are shipped and then they are scheduled for a leisurely 3 week ocean cruise. Maybe early November or so for an ETA.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

First Flight said:


> Tires are supposed to be in production now but it will be 8 weeks before they are shipped and then they are scheduled for a leisurely 3 week ocean cruise. Maybe early November or so for an ETA.


Jeff are these going to be out of the original mold or just out of the current EVA mold with amber skinwalls?

PS don't forget to remind them about the three cases of Force 2.0's you demanded to make the deal


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> Jeff are these going to be out of the original mold or just out of the current EVA mold with amber skinwalls?
> 
> PS don't forget to remind them about the three cases of Force 2.0's you demanded to make the deal


Current moulds. It is $5-$8K for a new mould so that isn't going to happen


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Just a quick update. Tires are supposed to ship 10/11 and should be in the shop 3-4 weeks after that.


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## mainlyfats (Oct 1, 2005)

:thumbsup:


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Sweet!


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## rev106 (Jul 9, 2009)

harzkristall said:


> sounds great! but make it in soft red! please!


yes, in red. I have a set on my klunker, they rock.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

WAnt!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

First Flight said:


> Current moulds. It is $5-$8K for a new mould so that isn't going to happen


What was the final spec?


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## Stylus (Oct 9, 2008)

Looking forward to this!


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## timbercomp (Jan 16, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> What was the final spec?


what we ordered


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Based on that info it's either the Premonition or Evolution mold with light skinwalls.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Should be the Z-Max Evolution tire in 26 x 2.1 with a natural tan colored skinwall. Should be arriving soon.


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## stefan9113 (Aug 4, 2008)

Hi,

thanks for all what you done here for us, what do you think it's the price for a set of these?

bye Stefan


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> What was the final spec?


What'd you call me?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

stefan9113 said:


> Hi,
> 
> thanks for all what you done here for us, what do you think it's the price for a set of these?
> 
> bye Stefan


Still waiting to get the final costs with shipping. My guess is $39.99 each since they will cost a bit more than our Timbuk IIs.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

chefmiguel said:


> What'd you call me?


Ya, you heard me.


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## chefmiguel (Dec 22, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> Ya, you heard me.


LOL!!!


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## marcel-titus (Dec 28, 2006)

interested too!


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Got the call today that the tires have entered the US:thumbsup: One step closer.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

First Flight said:


> Got the call today that the tires have entered the US:thumbsup: One step closer.


Coming to you directly through customs or through a consolidated can on the West coast?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> Coming to you directly through customs or through a consolidated can on the West coast?


Not sure of the details other than they came through LA. They called today to see what type of off-loading equipment they needed to bring.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Is there a price yet?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)




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## Patagrande (Jul 26, 2010)

Cool, I want at least one set, could you please take a picture and post it.
I do not remember if you answer the question on whether the casings are going to match the original tires, or if these came out of the current "classic" mold just with the skin walls.
Could you clarify.

Can;t wait to get a set, thanks


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

They are Ritchey Z-Max Evolution Pro 2.1 tires. More details @

https://mombat.org/MOMBAT/PartsForSalePages/tires.html


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

Yucky branding!!!!

What is up with the rampant nasty enormous branding on new bikes and parts these days? 

great tires though. I hope I dont sound like a [email protected] These were some of my favorite tires from bitd. 

man I cant get over the logos though.


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## mfh126 (Jul 31, 2007)

Wow, $18 to ship a pair. Come on Jeff, surely you can do better than that?


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## timbercomp (Jan 16, 2004)

mfh126 said:


> Wow, $18 to ship a pair. Come on Jeff, surely you can do better than that?


shipping stuff sucks and the price keeps going up, tires weigh a lot as well


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Those look like boxes they were shipped in not bundles so I'm guessing these are folders? Although I would think the label would say "K" if they were. Are they wire or kevlar beads.


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## ckevlar (Feb 9, 2005)

They pick up and deliver free boxes too!
https://www.prioritymail.com/flatrates.asp?id=25450282&ssno=26968

Nice tires. Could have done with out the big black ritchey panels.
For my needs those Timbuk2 are still the choice.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

gm1230126 said:


> Those look like boxes they were shipped in not bundles so I'm guessing these are folders? Although I would think the label would say "K" if they were. Are they wire or kevlar beads.


read the second page


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## mfh126 (Jul 31, 2007)

timbercomp said:


> shipping stuff sucks and the price keeps going up, tires weigh a lot as well


Nice job editing your original reply.  As was already mentioned, USPS Priority boxes are free. If you use your own boxes, you should be able to ship a pair of tires (3 lb. package) via Priority Mail for about $7.50. I'm sure you've got enough profit built into the price of the tires to drop the shipping costs even a little?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Shipping cost is the same for 1 pair or 2 pairs. Shipped several sets out today and actual shipping to the west coast was $13.xx for a pair.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> Those look like boxes they were shipped in not bundles so I'm guessing these are folders? Although I would think the label would say "K" if they were. Are they wire or kevlar beads.


Pro=Kevlar. Kinda funny since the Timbuk II tires are also Kevlar beads but they come in big rolls as opposed to folded and in boxes.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

The Timbuk II's you guys sell are pretty light I think. I wonder how much more the Ritcheys weigh?

Tires are kinda heavy to ship. Shipping is outta control these days.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> The Timbuk II's you guys sell are pretty light I think. I wonder how much more the Ritcheys weigh?
> 
> Tires are kinda heavy to ship. Shipping is outta control these days.


The Timbuk II tires are in the 545g range while the Ritchey tires came in around 475g.

Just shipped 4 to CA and it was $16.37. Wish there was a cheaper way to do it.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

mfh126 said:


> Nice job editing your original reply.  As was already mentioned, USPS Priority boxes are free. If you use your own boxes, you should be able to ship a pair of tires (3 lb. package) via Priority Mail for about $7.50. I'm sure you've got enough profit built into the price of the tires to drop the shipping costs even a little?


Link to this $7.50 shipping would be great.


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## Stylus (Oct 9, 2008)

is the international shipping rate some sort of insured incl. track &trace, as $50 seems steep? Well, maybe not in regards of the domestic shipping rate


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

International shipping is expensive. The notion that it is cheap is a reason I am thinking of ending the international option when I sell things. It used to be a lot cheaper, but in the last couple of years, it has become very spendy.


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## mfh126 (Jul 31, 2007)

First Flight said:


> Link to this $7.50 shipping would be great.


$12.70 from NC to CA: http://postcalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?m=6&p=3&o=0&dz=90210&oz=28803&pob=0&MailingDate=11/18/2010&MailingTime=8:00%20AM

$7.50 from NC to VA: http://postcalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?m=6&p=3&o=0&dz=22202&oz=28803&pob=0&MailingDate=11/18/2010&MailingTime=8:00%20AM

Prices are even less if you print the postage online. Are you using First Class or Priority to ship the tires?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

bushpig said:


> International shipping is expensive. The notion that it is cheap is a reason I am thinking of ending the international option when I sell things. It used to be a lot cheaper, but in the last couple of years, it has become very spendy.


International shipping is very expensive and they also lose the occasional package. In the past year, we have had 3 international packages returned and 2 lost. Once that package hits the US border, there is no/minimal tracking. And of course, the buyer goes to PayPal and makes a claim and PayPal will almost always side with the buyer and not the seller.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

mfh126 said:


> $12.70 from NC to CA: http://postcalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?m=6&p=3&o=0&dz=90210&oz=28803&pob=0&MailingDate=11/18/2010&MailingTime=8:00%20AM
> 
> $7.50 from NC to VA: http://postcalc.usps.gov/MailServices.aspx?m=6&p=3&o=0&dz=22202&oz=28803&pob=0&MailingDate=11/18/2010&MailingTime=8:00%20AM
> 
> Prices are even less if you print the postage online. Are you using First Class or Priority to ship the tires?


We ship everything Priority which is a minimum of $10.70. Add in the price of labels, tape, equipment rental (Stamps.com) and the occasional mis-ship and it is break even at best.

When I set up the tires originally, they only allowed one shipping option via the "Add to Cart" button. I went ahead and added individual buttons for each option with it's own shipping calculator. http://mombat.org/MOMBAT/PartsForSalePages/tires.html

We also often refund shipping overages once parts are shipped.


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## mfh126 (Jul 31, 2007)

First Flight said:


> We ship everything Priority which is a minimum of $10.70. Add in the price of labels, tape, equipment rental (Stamps.com) and the occasional mis-ship and it is break even at best.
> 
> When I set up the tires originally, they only allowed one shipping option via the "Add to Cart" button. I went ahead and added individual buttons for each option with it's own shipping calculator. http://mombat.org/MOMBAT/PartsForSalePages/tires.html
> 
> We also often refund shipping overages once parts are shipped.


Thanks Jeff. You'll be happy to know that I just ordered a pair now that you revised the shipping prices. :thumbsup:


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

mfh126 said:


> Thanks Jeff. You'll be happy to know that I just ordered a pair now that you revised the shipping prices. :thumbsup:


Boxed and on the way. Enjoy!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

bushpig said:


> International shipping is expensive. The notion that it is cheap is a reason I am thinking of ending the international option when I sell things. It used to be a lot cheaper, but in the last couple of years, it has become very spendy.


Agreed. Keep your dregs local


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Yipes! Those gigantic logos are kind of an unwelcome surprise. I mean, they sort of contravene the (aesthetic) rational behind getting skinwall tires in the first place.

Did you know they were going to come like that or did Ritchey surprise you too?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Yeah, the logos are unfortunate. Please let us know if anybody successfully removes them.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

yo-Nate-y said:


> Yipes! Those gigantic logos are kind of an unwelcome surprise. I mean, they sort of contravene the (aesthetic) rational behind getting skinwall tires in the first place.
> 
> Did you know they were going to come like that or did Ritchey surprise you too?


The small hot patch was fine since that has the model name and size on it. The big Ritchey logo was a surprise but after mounting one up, it doesn't bother me as much as it did in the package. The Panaracer Timbuk II is from the original mould with the old style hot patch and is a great "restoration" tire. The Ritchey is more of a resto-mod tire since it isn't and exact duplicate of an original tire. With that in mind, I kinda like the big letters. Gives you the choice:thumbsup:


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

First Flight said:


> The small hot patch was fine since that has the model name and size on it. The big Ritchey logo was a surprise but after mounting one up, it doesn't bother me as much as it did in the package. The Panaracer Timbuk II is from the original mould with the old style hot patch and is a great "restoration" tire. The Ritchey is more of a resto-mod tire since it isn't and exact duplicate of an original tire. With that in mind, I kinda like the big letters. Gives you the choice:thumbsup:


Hey Jeff,

I'm with you on the resto-mod flavor of the "new" tires...:thumbsup:

how's about a full bike pic of them mounted up for perspective?

Steve


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Word. And again, thanks for the Timbuk II's!!


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## Stylus (Oct 9, 2008)

I've had International shipping costs for an XTR mech quoted to me as $35 and after some emails with the seller it arrived within 7 days from Texas to my doorstep in Amsterdam for $12,48. As much as i like to buy goods, i hate overpaying for shipping.


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2010)

girlonbike said:


> Yeah, the logos are unfortunate. Please let us know if anybody successfully removes them.


In the past, on accident, I have removed labels by using degreaser.


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

Stylus said:


> I've had International shipping costs for an XTR mech quoted to me as $35 and after some emails with the seller it arrived within 7 days from Texas to my doorstep in Amsterdam for $12,48. As much as i like to buy goods, i hate overpaying for shipping.


That's exactly what I charge for shipping overseas small items. That cost is shipping _and handling_. With domestic shipping, I can print a UPS label here at the office, slap it on and leave it for the daily pickup.

For international, I have to get to the post office, write out customs forms, wait in line... all during lunch. Although its not as big of a PITA than say, threading housing through a Klein frame, it is a hassle. I don't think its unreasonable, but if you disagree, don't shop ebay.com for common items.


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## Stylus (Oct 9, 2008)

i can see both sides to this, as a buyer i say don't sell if you don't want to go through the hassle of selling, remember who's paying who.
I''m just saying i don't agree with paying $35 on something that can be done for $15, i also don't hand out free money on the streets.


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

From now on I'm only shipping priority international, as I am tired of being held to ransom by the buyer and ebay when the package does not turn up on the buyers doorstep.


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## cegrover (Oct 17, 2004)

ameybrook said:


> That's exactly what I charge for shipping overseas small items. That cost is shipping _and handling_. With domestic shipping, I can print a UPS label here at the office, slap it on and leave it for the daily pickup.
> 
> For international, I have to get to the post office, write out customs forms, wait in line... all during lunch. Although its not as big of a PITA than say, threading housing through a Klein frame, it is a hassle. I don't think its unreasonable, but if you disagree, don't shop ebay.com for common items.


The customs charges on the other end often seem to surprise buyers, too, and risk having an unhappy party. For that and the reasons you listed, I won't ship internationally anymore. Luckily, I'm a low-volume seller, so I don't think the world has been too hurt by this!


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

ameybrook said:


> For international, I have to get to the post office, write out customs forms, wait in line... all during lunch.


You can do US Postal at home on line and get the same discount as eBay gives, sign on for an account, it's free, load a credit card number fill in three small blanks for customs, pay for and print the label, tape it to the box...I walk into my post office past those not as smart as me, flop them on the counter say there all ready to go and wave at the counter workers that know me well and walk out the door. Can also order free pick up if you want just by checking a box. Free boxes when ever you want them delivered to your house also. Cheaper than UPS, Fed Ex and all others and handled better than UPS. Haven't filled out any paper customs forms in over four years, not one.


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## pete_mcc (Aug 19, 2006)

I'm a UK based buyer and have no problems paying extra for a safe and secure method of transport. I also don't mind paying for postage and handling as it is an extra hassle posting abroad and I appreciate the extra trouble people go to. Often international buyers want everything - the cheap goods from the US, the choice the US has to offer, low shipping, people to mark the goods as $1 for customs purposes and full value insurance if it goes missing.

to misquote Keith Bontrager:

_Cheap delivery, safe delivery, fast delivery - choose two._


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

^ yep agree with that, better to pay more for post and have it turn up, then cheap post and get nothing... as opposed to our australian post, pay lots and it still doesn't turn up!

I'd liek some of these, but ooo am saving madly for my trip to the US... hmmm wonder if I can get them posted to my hotel...


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

mik_git said:


> ^ yep agree with that, better to pay more for post and have it turn up, then cheap post and get nothing... as opposed to our australian post, pay lots and it still doesn't turn up!
> 
> I'd liek some of these, but ooo am saving madly for my trip to the US... hmmm wonder if I can get them posted to my hotel...


We've sent them all kinds of different place........hotels would work:thumbsup:


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## mfh126 (Jul 31, 2007)

My tires just arrived and I must say they do look nice. The sidewalls are a bit more "brown" than "skin" colored, but I like them. Quality seems good, and they feel rather light. Now, about those shipping costs...


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## eastcoaststeve (Sep 19, 2007)

Hey Jeff, any chance of getting you to post a few full bike shots with the tires mounted so I can see how they look on a bike?


thanks.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

eastcoaststeve said:


> Hey Jeff, any chance of getting you to post a few full bike shots with the tires mounted so I can see how they look on a bike?
> thanks.


Mounted a pair of the tires on our spec Mountain Goat Whiskeytown Racer. Looks much better than the Bontrager tires that were on the bike:thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Definitely look cool on a modern bike.


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Jeff why list them as gum walls in your ad on MOMBAT when Gum walls were clearly yellow rubber sided tires back in the day?


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> Jeff why list them as gum walls in your ad on MOMBAT when Gum walls were clearly yellow rubber sided tires back in the day?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

gm1230126 said:


> Jeff why list them as gum walls in your ad on MOMBAT when Gum walls were clearly yellow rubber sided tires back in the day?


Not really sure what to call them?? Skinwall doesn't really work, natural colored skinwall? (but most people now think natural=black)? tan skinwall? most people associate gum with tan but they aren't gum-rubber sidewall?


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## jacobslide (Aug 28, 2008)

any chance you do an amber run?


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

jacobslide said:


> any chance you do an amber run?


Amber tread tires? If so, I doubt it. I don't think there is as much of a demand for those tires. I suspect they might go bad before we sold 500 of them.......those didn't age gracefully.


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## jacobslide (Aug 28, 2008)

First Flight said:


> Amber tread tires? If so, I doubt it. I don't think there is as much of a demand for those tires. I suspect they might go bad before we sold 500 of them.......those didn't age gracefully.


yup, full amber - like the old tioga psycho k. i think you might be surprised by the demand. but, maybe i'm crazy. i know i'd pick up a couple pairs.

<img src = https://www.retrobike.net/forum/files/tioga_722.jpg/>


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

jacobslide said:


> yup, full amber - like the old tioga psycho k. i think you might be surprised by the demand. but, maybe i'm crazy. i know i'd pick up a couple pairs.
> 
> <img src = https://www.retrobike.net/forum/files/tioga_722.jpg/>


Going from memory, those were pretty premium priced back in the day so they would be even more so today. I would guess those would be $60-$65 each today which would kill demand. They were also only offered for a couple of years and not original equipment on too many bikes which would limit the demand. If there was a colored tire that might sell, it would have to be the white onZa Porcs?

Anyway, the amber tires wouldn't be where I would invest money.


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Here is another bike with the new Z Max tires mounted so ya'll can see another example.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

All modern build/parts on a vintage frame?


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## timbercomp (Jan 16, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> All modern build/parts on a vintage frame?


yup


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> All modern build/parts on a vintage frame?


 Pretty much a full Deore XT 9 speed kit from 2000/2001 on a 1990+/- Pinarello frame. Took all the parts off of the Trimble and have been working on making it more period correct. didn't have a home for the parts and had a couple of the NOS Pinarello frames. It actually went together nicely and makes for a neat bike.

http://www.mombat.org/MOMBAT/Bikes/1990_Pinarello_Antelao_Splatter.html


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## First Flight (Jan 25, 2004)

More pictures and details in a new thread:http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=672903


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## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

great looking bike!


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## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Cool build. Looks like the cockpit would be a little cramped though, with the shorter old school top tube and the short reach stem/bar.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

First Flight said:


> Mounted a pair of the tires on our spec Mountain Goat Whiskeytown Racer. Looks much better than the Bontrager tires that were on the bike:thumbsup:


Those are a great fit for the new Goat's,

"retro"


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## fatchanceti (Jan 12, 2005)

I'm gonna be bummed when these are gone. Was lucky enough to find a NOS pair.


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## Hardtailparty (Aug 29, 2021)

where can I pay to have a run of the zmax in soft red done? whats the minimums ? thanks


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I think the first flight batch was like 500 tyres? But you'd have to talk to Ritchey about it...


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## Hardtailparty (Aug 29, 2021)

talked to them, they don't really want to make any. said 2 year lead time LOL


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