# Clipless or flat pedals



## samus535 (Jun 26, 2019)

Hi everyone,
I would like your preference between clipless pedals and flat pedals for XC.

I'm quite new to mountain biking and many people told me that I must use clipless pedals as soon as possible.

I also would like to know when would be the best time to switch to clipless pedals. Is it as soon as possible ? Or is it when I'll have more experience doing mountain bike.

How did you switch from flat to clipless pedals ? It kind of scares me knowing that I'm tied to my bike.

Thank you very much for your help
--Samus535


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

Only you can choose when if ever to go clipless. You can ride either and have fun , don't let others tell you what you need/want. That said don't ride with the cheep plastic pedals that some bikes come with.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

It's too late to say this, but this topic has been unfortunately argued TO DEATH. Pedals are one of those topics like politics and religion where people pick a side and then become evangelistic, uncompromising assholes about it.This thread will turn into a fight after 5-6 responses. It might be fruitful for you, but you can save yourself the headache and just read a little bit of all that's already been written on the topic.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Oh, what the hell, I'll jump in. If you want to use and enjoy flat pedals, you should do is with some good quality, grippy pedals with a decent size flatform and some grippy flat-soled shoes that were designed for mountain biking or at least skateboarding. Most people will get a lousy experience in flexy running sneakers and dinky pedals with molded traction bumps.


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## desertred (Jun 9, 2010)

If you are uncomfortable with clipless pedals, go flat. But, as mack_turtle says, make sure you get some good shoes to use with a set of pedals. There is no reason to go clipless "as soon as possible". Many longtime riders are on flats. Once you gain comfort on your mountain bike, then move to clipless should you decide to do so.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

I use both, but primarily use clipless. For me, transitioning from flats to clipless is easier than going from clipless to flats. If you are comfortable with flats, stay with them. If at some point, you want to go clipless because you find you are somehow limited, I think the transition is pretty easy.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

They both have advantages. It's such a big and repeating topic that I suggest some searching. As one who does it both ways I'll point out clipped in can help me do some climbs without rolling my foot on the pedal. Learning to pump and jump with flats was a key or spark to building other skills. Late middle or early old age finds good flat pedals and shoes to be most friendly to my body. A problematic knee is happier. Not getting hurt as often with crashes.

I see a lot of people learning. I'm a director at a ski area with hundreds of kids and adults in lessons or learning. No matter how you want to do you long or fast or trail rides, over and over I see the learning progress aided by low seats and flat pedals. Many who ride clips in summer are on our fat bike trails with flats.

In actual use, the clip/cleat setup is use most for easy fast riding and my off road drop bar bike. My trail riding is usually modern thin flats with Five Ten shoes.

Read and listen to what others say but try both.


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

Well as a beginner myself, I asked my LBS when I was buying the bike the same question and it was his opinion that I would have enough things to think about while learning to ride and that going clipless too soon might just frustrate me. HE recommended a good set of shoes and better pedals. I bought some OneUp flat pedals and 5-10 shoes and it made a huge difference. At this point I see no need for clipless, but maybe down the road.


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## WVU RUSH (Jun 16, 2009)

IMO get a good set of flats and MTB shoes for at least the first year. 
After a year you will have a better idea of what kind if riding you enjoy most. 
Personally I ride flats on everything except my gravel bike and on long XC rides.

Have fun and heals down!


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I might be wrong but it seems easier for people to switch to clipless down the road than learn on clipless then go to flats. My buddy has always rode clipless and says he can't ride flats because he can't keep his feet on the pedals. I do think that learning on flats forces you to learn some basic riding mechanics that you might not pick up on clipless.


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

When i first started mountain biking in 1993 (13 years old) i ran flats. Of course, flats were plastic junk pedals or BMX style. After a short while, I started using Power Grips. They were a nice mix. Only a few months later, i got a set of PD-M747 pedals. The transition was smooth and seamless. 
Mind you, i had ridden clipless road, so it was not a completely foreign thing to be clipped into the bike. 

My dad, who had just broken is arm, and the first ride back decided to go straight to clipless, got a set of Ritchey pedals. He had a horrible time transitioning. Crashed multiple times, couldn't clip in, and just thought clipless on the mountain bike was a joke. Then he tried my 747s, and he had no problems.

Point is - when or if you do decide to run clipless, get good ones. I have run different pedals, and certain ones i severely dislike. We are in relatively technical terrain. (Slow speed, rocky, rooty, stuff that does require a good but of bike handling finesse as opposed to just raw speed carrying you through things).

ALL of my bikes currently have PD-M8000 pedals.
I found Crank Brothers pedals to be horrible for cleat retention. It is ridiculously easy to pedal strike here, and if you do on Crank Brothers pedals, the cleat is released from the impact. In heavy mud, Shimano pedals can clog up.

You do not ever need to go clipless, but I personally will always be clipless.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

samus535 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I would like your preference between clipless pedals and flat pedals for XC.
> 
> I'm quite new to mountain biking and many people told me that I must use clipless pedals as soon as possible.
> ...


Decision is EASY!
Choose the one that doesn't cause arguments. haha
If you ride with friends, what do they ride with. You should match them or they will make fun of you.

Kidding -since you're new here you don't understand how wrong one pedal is from the other.

The pedal choice I make is the right one (not the other style) Solved...


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

jeremy3220 said:


> ...My buddy has always *ridden* clipless and says he can't ride flats because he can't keep his feet on the pedals. I do think that learning on flats forces you to learn some basic riding mechanics that you might not pick up on clipless.


Totally. I rode elusively clipless for 20 years before switching to flats. It was a steep long painful learning curve. Sure I could pedal around the block on flats, but learning to keep my feet on the pedals on technical climbs over edges and with the rear wheel slipping/spinning, hopping, jumping, etc. took a lot of practice and time...and gouged shins.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Seeing you are new, just start with flats. You learn a lot with flat pedals. If you want to dabble with clipless, find yourself a set of Shimano SPD pedals. They are usually on sale for pretty cheap. I use the SPD M520 pedals on both of my road bikes. I used to use them on my mountain bike but I prefer to use Crank Brothers instead. 

There really is no specific time when to make the jump. Just do it when you are ready. About a year ago, I made the choice to go clipless full time because I was so indecisive on my foot positioning while using flats. To me, my Mallet DH pedals feel more like flats than my Shimano SPD pedals. It makes me feel way more confident to ride clipless using my Mallets. I also bought the Crank Brothers Easy Release cleats which lets me unclip easier and faster. The only drawback is that I sometimes unclip on accident which isn't a big deal to me. It doesn't happen often. Those cleats make me feel better when I need to unclip and put my foot down.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I think in general, the way people look at clipless is backwards. 

I can climb just as well in flats vs clipless. Its a total wash, makes no difference at all. Its *downhill* that clipless shines! I never pop off when it gets rough, I never hit my shin, I never have to worry about bouncing off and losing control. 

People worry about being tied to the bike, but thats honestly the main, maybe only benefit. Go clipless when you're ready to charge downhill, fully committed. 

Or just stay with flats. Nothing wrong with flats either, and they're often more fun.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I was promised arguments. Where the hell are the arguments!


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

The used bike I purchased came with the Wellgo (flat) pedals that look like a bear trap.

They loop pretty scary. I think I hit my shins with them once, I think really hard.

I have Chester's now. I did hit my shin super hard couple months ago. 
That was due to my own stupidity. I was about to head on....sat on the bike, spun the crank backwards so my proper foot was forward. I was zoned out and forgot to think....the pedal came around and smacked my shin because I didn't think to catch it. It didn't feel pleasant.

I hardly call that a 'riding incident' though, so twice in about 9 years have I smacked a shin. Not sure that's worth threatening to stay away from flat pedals.

I rode clips when I had a road bike. It was fine. Don't think it made me a superior rider. I did enjoy the security at 45mph down a hill though but I only ride 30 downhill on MTB. And I'm usually standing up and maneuvering through the conditions rather than staying seated with an unweighted foot. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. LOL

Both are good. Whatever a person is comfortable with is all that matters.
I'd feel scared to ride clips on MTB because I do silly stuff all the time. Wheelies when I shouldn't, last minute decision to pop off a water bar, whatever. With my careless riding style I feel like I'm constantly dabbing -which would likely turn into crashing if I were clipped (at least until I could unclip more quickly than remove a foot from a flat). And to me, not goofing off the way I do would take 40% of the fun away.
A friend that prints shirts was going to make a jersery for me with a squirrel on it to mimic my character and silliness on a bike.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

If you don't ride flats, you are not a real mountain biker.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

^^^ any moron can ride clipless. It takes a special kind of moron to ride flats.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Good, good! Let the pedal-inspired hate flow through you!


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)




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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Battery said:


> View attachment 1271065


Totally, it's a conspiracy!


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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

Real riders ride on just the spindle.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Spindle? Pah, I just stick my toe in the crank pedal hole!


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

The other day someone asked me if I started with flats or clipless. I said flats. They asked why? I said "because clipless wan't invented yet". ...thanks for reminding me how old I am...


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

jeremy3220 said:


> I might be wrong but it seems easier for people to switch to clipless down the road than learn on clipless then go to flats. My buddy has always rode clipless and says he can't ride flats because he can't keep his feet on the pedals. I do think that learning on flats forces you to learn some basic riding mechanics that you might not pick up on clipless.


This. If I had to do it all again, I would have bought better shoes and better flat pedals rather than migrating to clipless. Like a lot of riders, I went from flats to clipless and back to flats. I feel perfectly comfortable on either, but flats demand more of a focus on technique. Plus, it's easier to practice and learn when you don't have to worry about being clipped in. I feel like clipless stunted my growth as a rider in some ways, especially early on. Even now, I feel like I'm more likely to try new things on flats and have progressed way more since making the switch.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Use both! I actually did a xc race once with spd on one side, flat on other, because i had smashed a big toe and couldnt put shoe on that side.

Theres no need to have to use clipless, personal abilities and fitness will make way more difference than type of pedals.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

My fourteen year old son has been riding trails since he was five. Always rode flats. A year or so ago he asked me about trying clipless because it's all he's ever seen me do. I said you can try it if you want but you don't seem to have any trouble with your flats. He never asked about it again. 
I rode old school Odyssey pedals with toe clips for years until one of my friends harassed me into trying clipless. After the learning curve, it's all I want to ride now. Kind of a hassle if I just want to ride to the store.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

root said:


> Use both! I actually did a xc race once with spd on one side, flat on other, because i had smashed a big toe and couldnt put shoe on that side.


Which side did you ride without a shoe? Also, do you run barefoot over glass in the off season? Just curious because that's some serious dedication!


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## OldManBiker (Nov 5, 2016)

You guys are a riot! Lol. But its been fun reading the various opinions on which is better according to the experiences on both! Ive only been mountain biking for 3 years and all 3 have been spent on flat pedals. I've had my share of ripped shins and I still wear the cougar-like claw scar on my right calf from my Hope flat pedals gouging me nice and deep after my feet came off from a small jump! That was fun! (dripping with extreme sarcasm). To many of your posts I agree that he doesnt have to change as soon as possible to one or the other. I am actually going today and purchasing my first set of SPD's and shoes to try this clipless journey and I intentionally waited until I KNEW how to ride better. I got into mountain biking for the experience and challenge, and by a constant nagging friend who wouldn't stop hounding me to start riding with him. But I have discovered along the way that growing and challenging myself is a big part of being on a mountain bike. I want to know what else is out there to try and hopefully become better, faster, more technically inclined, etc. By this time next week I may have thrown my new purchases in the dumpster but I will give it a try to see if it makes me perhaps a better rider! Here's hoping!


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

noapathy said:


> Which side did you ride without a shoe? Also, do you run barefoot over glass in the off season? Just curious because that's some serious dedication!


 I cant remeber which side, i think it was right. I know nail was torn. Rode with slipper (flip flops) taped to my foot with was wrapped up like a mummy. This was decades ago and the race was on neighbor island so we had made a trip to attend it.


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## Dr Evil (Sep 20, 2015)

Cages.





Kidding.


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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

Dr Evil said:


> Cages.
> 
> Kidding.


If you mean toe clips, yes im old enough that i rode with those too, truely PIA.


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## OldManBiker (Nov 5, 2016)

After one ride. Me - 1, SPD's - 0

Saga to continue! 

Loved it but darn did it feel different than flats in so many ways.


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## Whec716 (Dec 6, 2009)

I've only used clipeless since I've been mountain biking. Let me explain why.

1) My biggest fear is keeping my feet on the pedals. Plenty of times as a kid, my foot would come off the pedal (platforms) and I would get the pedal up (or down my shin) - that sucked. Also, I would not be prepared to absorb the landing because my foot/feet where not on the pedals. Granted, i was on a bmx bike with plastic pedals and whatever shoes - but this fear still remains.
2) Getting unclipped isn't a problem. You can set the sensativity of the pedals. Mine are so loose that if I think about coming out, I come out.

Try both - I did give flats a try about a year ago - I made it one ride and took them off. I just found them to not be efficient, and messed with my mental focus.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

When you transition to clipless you must appease the gods by finding the hottest chick on the trail and slowly roll up to her and flop over without unclipping. 

It must be done!!


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Whec716 said:


> ...My biggest fear is keeping my feet on the pedals. ...


It's a skill. After riding exclusively clipless for 20 years I totally forgot how to keep my feet on the pedals. After about 4 years of flats on the mtb, I've gotten pretty good at it and haven't seriously gouged a shin in a quite a while.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> It's a skill. After riding exclusively clipless for 20 years I totally forgot how to keep my feet on the pedals. After about 4 years of flats on the mtb, I've gotten pretty good at it and haven't seriously gouged a shin in a quite a while.


Not being able to keep your feet planted on flats might also be a sign of degrading technique. Lots of people on clipless don't keep enough weight in their feet. I had to make the adjustment when moving back to flats. I can pump harder, hop higher, and jump way better now then I ever could when I relied on clipless pedals to keep me in contact with my bike. Clipless pedals aren't always a crutch, but they are for a lot of riders.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

samus535 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I would like your preference between clipless pedals and flat pedals for XC.
> 
> I'm quite new to mountain biking and many people told me that I must use clipless pedals as soon as possible.
> ...


Ride both 

Practice using clipless on trails you know really well.

Use flats when you're on gnarly, unfamiliar trails.

Switch between the two just to change things up 

Both have pros & cons.

Sent from my Nokia X6


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

^^^ good advice if you have the bandwidth.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

I really like flats but I have never tried clipless. I can't remember the last time I came off a pedal going downhill. I have some great scars though basically all from being in a low gear getting to the top of an elevation change and forgetting to shift into a harder gear by the time I get to the bottom and spinning off my pedals. 

One downside I have found with flats is getting scratched up by them during hike-a-bikes.


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## Frantic29 (Apr 5, 2017)

After using flats for the first 2 years I rode I just switched to clips about 4 weeks ago. I love them. Tech climbing is way easier as is general bike control. I’m planning on switching back and forth some but I bet long run I’ll be going clips. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jupiter58 (Jan 13, 2016)

stop being a *****, go clipless.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Switched from clips to flats 15 years ago and do not miss them at all.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I think it just depends on your comfort level. When you start to feel like you're having a better grasp on the control of your bike...getting on and off in more sketchy areas.

I started with flats...move to toe clips...then clipless pedals. I've switched back and forth between flats and clipless...I've always moved back to clipless. To me...they just feel better. I've also never really liked flat pedal shoes. They feel like I'm wearing elevator shoes.


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## steinercat (Apr 25, 2014)

jeremy3220 said:


> I might be wrong but it seems easier for people to switch to clipless down the road than learn on clipless then go to flats. My buddy has always rode clipless and says he can't ride flats because he can't keep his feet on the pedals. I do think that learning on flats forces you to learn some basic riding mechanics that you might not pick up on clipless.


This is exactly the feeling/fear I had when I tried riding on flats - that my feet have come off the pedals!  The 'disengaged feel' does take a while to get used to, and I never did. Granted, I may not have had a good shoe/flat combo.

I was only ever riding clipless (Speedplay) on road/gravel bikes before MTB. I don't have a problem getting out of SPDs, even when bailing out. The clip in/clip out action becomes second nature, and it's obviously the same for people always on flats - it's just more natural to them.


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## akacoke (May 11, 2011)

Try both and see which one you like. most people including me perfer flats


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

If being as fast as possible is your #1 priority, go clipless. If you ride for any other aspect of the sport, go flats.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

roughster said:


> If being as fast as possible is your #1 priority, go clipless. If you ride for any other aspect of the sport, go flats.


What if you just like clipless better?


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

roughster said:


> If being as fast as possible is your #1 priority, go clipless. If you ride for any other aspect of the sport, go flats.


What if clipless can't make me a better rider, therfore faster?

Where is the guarantee written that clipless is faster?


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

When I started MTB, I tried riding clipless using some Crank Brothers pedals. It was horrible, hard to get into those things so I switched to flat pedals This spring, I bought some Shimano XTR SPD Trail pedals, they are called trail because they have a small cage on them, around the clip. The XTR race pedals lack that cage. Anyway, the XTRs are so easy to get into, even on steep uphill starts or in tough terrain, I haven’t used my fiat pedals all season. I have had a few panic unclips to dab instead of falling, no problem, easy in and easy out. I also paired them with some Five Ten Boa shoes that look like flat pedal shoes but they have the cleat. Much better footing when I step down. Every once in a while I will unclip when my mojo is off, and I see a sketchy feature coming up. That’s where that cage comes in. Climbing is so much more efficient when you are clipped in, no crashed when your foot flies off a pedal, and thank goodness no shredded shins. I don’t know what percent of people clip or don’t clip, or ride in running shoes or whatever. No one else knows for sure either.


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## johnnyrmxd (Nov 23, 2014)

Had both good and bad experiences with both. Still, I prefer clipless for XC.

One horrible flat pedal was not grippy at all cause it was out of plastic, the good one has metal pins.
Shitty clipless pedal was a combo (one side was flat) and the clipless side was heavier, so it would alway face down. Then I bought two sided magnesium body and titanium spindle pedal and it was heaven (but try to avoid magnesium body if you ride rocky terrain cause you are gonna damage the body pretty soon, for normal XC it's ok).

I switched after about six months of light off-roading. First few rides clipped in I took only on the road. It was fairly OK (I never fell because I could not unclip myself). However, pay attention at the very beginning - some friends of mine had forgotten to unclip at traffic lights.


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

johnnyrmxd said:


> Had both good and bad experiences with both. Still, I prefer clipless for XC.
> 
> One horrible flat pedal was not grippy at all cause it was out of plastic, the good one has metal pins.
> Shitty clipless pedal was a combo (one side was flat) and the clipless side was heavier, so it would alway face down. Then I bought two sided magnesium body and titanium spindle pedal and it was heaven (but try to avoid magnesium body if you ride rocky terrain cause you are gonna damage the body pretty soon, for normal XC it's ok).
> ...


If you practice up with clipless, it's easy to unclip on the way down and dab, not fall. The last time I tipped over like that was when I was riding road with toe straps, before Look clipless came out. Back in the 1980s. I totally agree with those pedals that only have clips on one side. Either clip in or don't. Those pedals do neither well.


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## atarione (Aug 24, 2018)

I rode clipless for a few months years ago when I got my first real mtb (specialized stumpy)

absolutely hated it .. did in fact fall over in front of a number of cute girls at gasworks park in seattle... couldn't clip out.. shoe / pedal bound up...

and that was it for me... flats and never have considered going back. 

but whatever to each their own.. I am 50yrs old now.. I don't ever see feeling the need to try clipless again... flats are so good now as well as the flat pedal shoes.. meh good enough for me. 

/touchwood :: it has been ages since I slammed a shin on a flat pedal... do it once and you don't wanna do it again.


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

atarione said:


> I rode clipless for a few months years ago when I got my first real mtb (specialized stumpy)
> 
> absolutely hated it .. did in fact fall over in front of a number of cute girls at gasworks park in seattle... couldn't clip out.. shoe / pedal bound up...
> 
> ...


I see bloody shins all the time at the trailhead?. Keep a can of spray saline to give away just for that!


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## Xgecko (Oct 12, 2019)

So I have the road and gravel Biked for the last 5 years with clipless pedals so it was natural for me to go clipless off-road when I bought a MTB at the end of the summer......until I fell uphill on a techie climb on my 5th ride. I bought a set of large Stamp pedals and a pair of 5/10 shoes when I got home and I have been happy ever since.


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## BujiBiker (Jun 7, 2019)

This year is the time in two decades I’ve ridden a flat pedal. Bought a new modern fs bike. Also had knee surgery 5 months ago. Decided to try flats for the first new bike since 01. 

I don’t have shoes yet. Ordered some 510’s and they were making feet numb sitting around the house. Sent them back. I’m riding in some foam sole sketcher "all terrain " shoes. They work ok, not great, but ok

I ran spd’s with multi release cleats since 2001. I went flats this time around because on technical terrain (for around here) I couldn’t disengage/engage fast enough to get moving. 

Starting/stopping every 20’ doesn’t get me anywhere. Hence the flats. Not to mention it’s better on my knee.


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## Sid Duffman (Oct 5, 2015)

I ride both, but mostly flats because I have more fun on them.

In my opinion, flats require more skill and clipless require more commitment and confidence. There's probably a role for learning to ride both.


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## Crazy 8s (Oct 12, 2019)

I'll chime in with my thoughts... The idea of being fixed to the bike scared the crap out of me, but on the road bike I found that I couldn't keep up with any of the other road riders that were clipped in...so I bought some inexpensive SPD pedals and some inexpensive shoes just to give it a try. I only had a road bike at the time so I practiced with it on the road only.

I suggest new clipless riders practice on the road and not on dirt. To get comfortable with the motions of clipping in and out.

I found out quickly enough that the clipless pedals make a big improvement on performance, but only after you exploit a greater part of the circle (cycle). If you keep with the same motions; down R then down L repeat...they will not help you. You must learn a different leg motion to take advantage of the fuller power circuit enabled by the clipped in shoes. I was given some advice early on to think about it like trying to swipe the ground beneath you and carry the motion back up the circuit. Think Fred Flintstone pedaling his car. Not just up and down. Also from front to back.

I found it so much more efficient and my average speed went up probably 20%.

After using the SPD pedals and shoes for a while, I realized they suck for road riding and I was having issues with my knees from them. I bought some Speedplay free-floating pedals and never looked back. (The Speedplay road bike pedals don't make much sense for a MTB because the base is on the shoes and not the pedals...and you can't hike/walk for crap on the shoes even on pavement. Typical of road shoes, not what you want on MTB)

I put the bike down for a few years. My life changed a lot.

Now I am back on the bike, but this time an MTB 29er...with flats. I find myself wanting to use clipless pedals again, but I with some high grip flats on the bike I realize I can approximate the motion of clipless...without the clipless pedals. It isn't quite as effective as riding clipless but it is an improvement over the old stomping up and down that most people will do on flats.

Because the motion does work on flats to improve your performance, I suggest riders who are serious about it to practice with clipless pedals so they can learn that motion.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Crazy 8s said:


> ...The idea of being fixed to the bike scared the crap out of me,....


Like I said a few posts ago, I rode exclusively clipless for 20 years, both road and mtb. It was going to flats that scared the crap out of me. I've since gotten over it.


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## Crazy 8s (Oct 12, 2019)

Back when I started using clipless pedals, I only had a road bike. I got an MTB soon thereafter, and when I bought the speedplay pedals for the road bike, I put the SPD on the MTB. Because I had already become comfortable clipping in and out of them, I thought they were awesome on the MTB riding in the dirt. On climbs, invaluable! They were the difference between walking your bike up the hill or riding it faster than walking.

I am not claiming to be even good at MTB, or even road bike. I just know that the clipless pedals can boost your speed and power output on both road and MTB, even if you are a noob. I can't imagine riding a dropbar bike without them, but on a flatbar I can see occasions where clipless won't be as useful...like downhill, for example.


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## Xgecko (Oct 12, 2019)

Crazy 8s said:


> I can't imagine riding a dropbar bike without them, but on a flatbar I can see occasions where clipless won't be as useful...like downhill, for example.


Or ridiculously techie ****, I needed the option to put a foot down at any moment....not saying I don't miss the torque when going up a loose climb but walking beats falling


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## Crazy 8s (Oct 12, 2019)

Xgecko said:


> Or ridiculously techie ****, I needed the option to put a foot down at any moment....not saying I don't miss the torque when going up a loose climb but walking beats falling


I think we are finding out here that there is no black and white debate between flats and clipless. There are too many environments for one style to accommodate.

There may be room for some tech innovation here! Having great performing flats and clipless without having to change pedals or shoes. I am thinking about it!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Crazy 8s said:


> I found it so much more efficient and my average speed went up probably 20%.


That's unusual, tests have shown power differences are minimal between clips and flats.

Also, spd's work great for lots of people on road bikes.


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## Crazy 8s (Oct 12, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's unusual, tests have shown power differences are minimal between clips and flats.
> 
> Also, spd's work great for lots of people on road bikes.


My experience was primarily on road bike, at a time before smartphones and powermeters and most new tech to measure. Just a simple bike computer with speedo and cadence. At that time, there was a road in SE Phx called Pecos, that was like 8 miles of straight and perfectly paved road that had almost zero cars on it. I used it as a good safe place to ride, and reliable testing grounds for my own performance. Smooth, straight, mostly flat road. From my home to the end of Pecos and back was about 30 miles round trip, and relatively car-free for much of it...I rode it probably 4 times a week for 2 years. This is where I measured all the upgrades to my bike and my own health.

YMMV.

There was no such thing as GCN or MTBN then, but if there were I would have been hooked on that stuff! lol


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Crazy 8s said:


> My experience was primarily on road bike, at a time before smartphones and powermeters and most new tech to measure. Just a simple bike computer with speedo and cadence. At that time, there was a road in SE Phx called Pecos, that was like 8 miles of straight and perfectly paved road that had almost zero cars on it. I used it as a good safe place to ride, and reliable testing grounds for my own performance. Smooth, straight, mostly flat road. From my home to the end of Pecos and back was about 30 miles round trip, and relatively car-free for much of it...I rode it probably 4 times a week for 2 years. This is where I measured all the upgrades to my bike and my own health.
> 
> YMMV.
> 
> There was no such thing as GCN or MTBN then, but if there were I would have been hooked on that stuff! lol


I'm not doubting you, just saying your results are unusual because scientific tests don't show the disparity you experienced.


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## Crazy 8s (Oct 12, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'm not doubting you, just saying your results are unusual because scientific tests don't show the disparity you experienced.


I know this is a many-years-long debate in the cycling world, but 'scientific tests' do show an improvement in almost every metric of performance in cycling when using clipless pedals. I am not sure what science reference you are measuring to, but when I looked through many of the responses that Google offered, virtually all of the articles posted measurements showing that clipless pedals offer better performance.

My personal experience of about 20% had an extra dimension of my own training and improving health while doing it.

There has been one congruent concept that I have witnessed across many different hobbies/fields/sports etc... 'The best thing there is is the thing I am using because I will never admit that I might be wrong and I don't make wrong choices.' It is a phenomenon we all experience from ourselves, and being sentient to it, I try to factor that into my own beliefs.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

For the sake of maybe a newb joining in just now. With regards to the OP's original question/post...


Start on flats. 

Learn to mtb well on flats.

Then learn clippies.


Won't bore you with the why's. Just do it that way if you want to do well in the sport.


Really its not cool to be so black and white on any topic, but on this one, well I'm standing tall on that.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Crazy 8s said:


> I know this is a many-years-long debate in the cycling world, but 'scientific tests' do show an improvement in almost every metric of performance in cycling when using clipless pedals. I am not sure what science reference you are measuring to, but when I looked through many of the responses that Google offered, virtually all of the articles posted measurements showing that clipless pedals offer better performance.


Here's one- 




If you've seen something that refutes it please post. I'm not arguing but I don't think beginners should believe they'll become drastically faster if they switch to clipless.

I ride clipless btw.


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## Crazy 8s (Oct 12, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> Here's one-
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I posted a vid from GCN that was made about 2 years after that one...their findings suggested better performance clipless...and at the end of the video they emphatically stated they would only ride clipless.

I started on flats, as a kid on BMX, then to a road bike on flats then to OG toe clips then back to flats and then to clipless. I ran the gamut. I would ride with a massive troupe of cyclists every Sunday on a 60 mile jaunt here in Phoenix, and ALL of them were riding clipless. As they were the fastest riders in the city, I am convinced that there is some performance benefit to clipless pedals. Nearly ALL competitive road cyclists use clipless pedals. (I imagine there are some exceptions, but very few)

I think Miker J offered the best advice. Start with flats, get solid at riding on flats, then check out clipless. Ride whatever it is that keeps you riding safely and happily!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

There is no need to complicate things. Just go old skool and install normal pedals that are wide and have good grip, even replaceable spikes. I stay away from cheap pedals, and go metal, no more plastic junk!


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Is "performance" and being "fast" of primary concern for every rider? What happened to good old fun? What's with the roided up jock obsession with going fast all the time?

I have more fun riding flats. I am definitely faster when clipped in, but I am not racing anyone, so I don't give a rat's ass.


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## Kolchak (May 15, 2017)

No superman seat grabs riding clipless.


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## GiddyHitch (Dec 1, 2009)

Just split the difference and ride clips already!








In all seriousness, if you are interested in clipless and can afford or borrow the pedals and shoes, give them a try because they make a few key things a lot easier/efficient (especially for XC) ... and a couple of other things a lot harder. Plus, enduro bros have made them cool again.


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## ajen2410 (Feb 16, 2021)

samus535 said:


> Hi everyone,
> I would like your preference between clipless pedals and flat pedals for XC.
> 
> I'm quite new to mountain biking and many people told me that I must use clipless pedals as soon as possible.
> ...


Just use one of each 

(I prefer clipless though)


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

I just went back to flats. I'm not sure how long, but I feel like my skills are already getting better. I adjusted the pins on the pedals so they aren't ripping holes in my shins.


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

This debate is endless. Same as dividing 22 by 7.

I use both. I read these debates looking for a nugget of new info.

A personal choice for me is flats. Why? I’ll go with reasons already stated.

For amusement I’ll ride flats when I go on a road ride with riders who think they are better than they are. Hardcore roadies? Clips or I decline to join the ride. Trails. Prefer flats. My coaster brake flat pavement one speed? Flats of course.


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## Narrowback (Mar 26, 2017)

EKram said:


> This debate is endless. Same as dividing 22 by 7.
> 
> I use both.


Agreed. I should have clarified that I intend to use both.


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