# MTB Training Track for Middle School MTB race team



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

I am developing a MTB training track on our middle-school campus. The available space is the perimeter around the athletic fields that are co-managed by the school district and the City and parts of the campus.

The land is flat with a ~5' berm surrounding the athletic fields and adjacent to one of the school buildings. The berm is silt/moon-dust soil throughout.

Development to this point has been simply riding it in. I have developed/incorporated the following challenges:
90' "skinny, a curb that is partially even with grade and partially not. 
Wall-ride - ¼ of the circuit that is simply up close to a wall on irregular surface. 
"S" turns down the berm than up again. The moon dust makes for a good training challenge, but it would be nice to add some variety. 
Washouts - Along one side of the track, there are eroded channels perpendicular to the trail. The deepest is about a foot deep and 2 feet across, the others are smaller.

I am going to approach the City to see if there might be interest in helping develop this as a City project and add more challenges. Has anyone here worked on, or ridden a project with similar conditions?

Link to Google Map of the track. Street-view offers a pretty good view of the situation.
https://tinyurl.com/y886tu42


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Are there ever logs on the bike race routes? What about bring in some rocks for a rough trail section?


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Sorry for the delayed response Leeboh. Guess my notifications aren't working... 

No logs here, just rocks, gravel, sand and cactus . Bringing in rocks is one of the things I have in mind. We have some parks nearby that have 5" - 8" rocks as buffers at the end of drainage channels that we have been using as rock gardens. These have been good training and I want to incorporate something similar, but larger, in the track. Other ideas include bringing in very large rocks to build some ledges and steps on some of the down/ups on the berm. I'd also like to add more elevation change that is long and steep enough to teach climbing skills but I'm not sure that's realistic. 

While I have a lot of ideas, I've never ridden or seen a track like the one I have in mind, with the conditions I have to work with. I'm hoping to find a completed project somewhere to use as a model so that I'm not just guessing at what might work.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

The "Skills Bowl" at this park in Brisbane is close to what I am looking for








Small area, specifically designed for developing skills rather than a recreation trail. Not a flow trail, pump track, or dirt-jumping track.

If you know of similar examples, I would like to get the name of the area or a link.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ki5ka said:


> The "Skills Bowl" at this park in Brisbane is close to what I am looking for
> View attachment 1182314
> 
> 
> ...


I know of a couple but there won't be any pictures of them online. Can probably get some GoPro or photos of them in the next couple of weeks?

There is the skills area at Two Rivers Bike Park in Missouri that is similar as well.

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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

That would be awesome Tucker


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Is this it? https://www.mtbproject.com/photo/7007319 Not many pics but a couple. It shows 26' of elevation change, that's more than I have to work with, but in the ballpark for ideas.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

That's the one

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Here is one of the two, the other is at an elementary school so will have to go by there after the kids leave. The inner loop, not taking the drop has about 6' of elevation gain/loss, didn't have a transit so best guess, the outer loop, off the drop is about 15'. Too wet to ride or fly a drone so took stills hope this helps.









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## BikesOnSnow (Jan 23, 2004)

We (Sinuosity: Flowing Trails) built a skills track at Norwich University in Northfield, Vermont this fall. The goal was to incorporate a variety of representative features from the trail network further up the hill.

https://www.timesargus.com/articles/dropping-in/
https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/5411388/norwich-university-full-loop


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks Tucker. I appreciate you taking the time to get photos. In the 4th pic, there is a chunk of sandstone (?) and in the background it looks like it might be a large rock feature?


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks BOS, this is exactly what I am trying to create. The article reflects my situation precisely. Our local trails are demanding and I have middle school students with very limited bike-handling skills wanting to get out on the "real" trails. Creating a training track where they can develop the skills necessary to safely venture out is the goal.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ki5ka said:


> Thanks Tucker. I appreciate you taking the time to get photos. In the 4th pic, there is a chunk of sandstone (?) and in the background it looks like it might be a large rock feature?


The trail proper wraps around it but you could absolutely use it as an obstacle. I can try to get a drone fly through if that would help. If I were doing it for kids that would be racing I would add a small rock garden into the mix.

We also have a jump line on a middle school's property that was put in for PE classes, lots of videos on that one. It doesn't sound like you have the elevation for that though? Is artificial elevation possible? The other basic loop has a built up mound for that purpose.

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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> The trail proper wraps around it but you could absolutely use it as an obstacle. I can try to get a drone fly through if that would help.


Thanks for the offer, but no need, I get the gist of it.



> If I were doing it for kids that would be racing I would add a small rock garden into the mix.


Yep, rocks for sure are in the plan, in to recreate our local trails, rock throughout would be the. Not sure where they are going to come from, hoping the City might step in there.



> We also have a jump line on a middle school's property that was put in for PE classes, lots of videos on that one. It doesn't sound like you have the elevation for that though? Is artificial elevation possible? The other basic loop has a built up mound for that purpose.


I'm not planning any jumps or wood features. NICA discourages jumps and that would make getting approval much more difficult. I think it will be challenging enough to get support for the rocky obstacles I have planned.

I am going to explore the possibility of an artificial hill. If I could add another 10 feet of elevation to the 6 or so that exists, I could get a decent training climb and descent in there. I'm probably being unrealistic, but until someone tells me it can't be done, I'm gonna ask.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ki5ka said:


> Thanks for the offer, but no need, I get the gist of it.
> 
> Yep, rocks for sure are in the plan, in to recreate our local trails, rock throughout would be the. Not sure where they are going to come from, hoping the City might step in there.
> 
> ...


I'd go for it on the hill.

The jumping issye is one of the few aspects of NICA I'm not a fan of. Everyone should be comfortable with their bike in the air and not taught it's a bad thing. It will inevitably happen, especially at race speeds. I know why they have the stance but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

I posted a question about Lee Likes Bikes related to this and I'm thinking it might be better to keep this all in one thread so I'll post the pics, but let you find the related exchange if you're interested....


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Just an FYI per our recent leader summit wheels on the ground is no longer a thing. 

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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Were you at the Arizona Summit in Flag? I had to leave after the first session so I missed most of it, thanks. I'm meeting with the district Chief of Operations next Thursday and he seems excited and positive. After that meeting I should have a better idea how conservative they want to be. 

Saturday morning at the Summit, I overheard a conversation about someone developing a trail and getting material at no cost from the City (?) They needed to dispose of material from an excavation, the trail-builder needed material. Do you know anything about that?


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

ki5ka said:


> Were you at the Arizona Summit in Flag? I had to leave after the first session so I missed most of it, thanks. I'm meeting with the district Chief of Operations next Thursday and he seems excited and positive. After that meeting I should have a better idea how conservative they want to be.
> 
> Saturday morning at the Summit, I overheard a conversation about someone developing a trail and getting material at no cost from the City (?) They needed to dispose of material from an excavation, the trail-builder needed material. Do you know anything about that?


No, sorry. I was at ours in AR. I do know that the wheels on the ground removal is a national level change though.

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## Gangly1 (Jul 5, 2016)

I am a little late, but I just saw this thread. We have a trail at a highschool here, which seems like almost exactly what you are trying to do (no elevation I don't think, though).

Here's a video https://www.richmondoutside.com/videos/take-a-spin-on-the-armstrong-bike-park/

Here's a link to an article and pictures from the grand opening:

https://chpn.net/2014/09/13/photos-from-the-grand-opening-of-the-armstrong-bike-park/

I am ashamed to admit I haven't actually ridden it, but it looks pretty nice given the location and space/budget constraints.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Gangly1 said:


> I am a little late, but I just saw this thread.


No worries, nothings happened yet and I'm still looking for inspiration.



> We have a trail at a highschool here, which seems like almost exactly what you are trying to do (no elevation I don't think, though).


Yes indeed, that is nearly exactly my scenario.



> Here's a video https://www.richmondoutside.com/videos/take-a-spin-on-the-armstrong-bike-park/


That bench ride toward the end is pretty ballsy. We have a curb we ride that I've been thinking of digging out about 6 inches so if you fall off, you can't just ride back on. I bet the kids get pretty stoked doing it.



> ...it looks pretty nice given the location and space/budget constraints.


Yes it does.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

New season. No progress. Just logging (lack of) progress. Still looking for suggestions on what to mix with powdered clay to stabilize it in an arid environment.


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## evan yo! (Jul 11, 2007)

ki5ka said:


> New season. No progress. Just logging (lack of) progress. Still looking for suggestions on what to mix with powdered clay to stabilize it in an arid environment.


I haven't tried it myself, but heard you can mix quickrete with loose soils. I don't know anything about the ratios, but I'm sure you can google it. Also, I've read a little bit about different soil stabilizers, like Soiltac.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks for the response Evan. I've seen this suggestion, and similar, and dismissed them as impractical, but perhaps I should reconsider. The track is 1/2 mile long and we have no obvious source of revenue to buy a commercial product but native material, on the other hand, MIGHT be available by donations from local entities. 

I keep thinking that mixing sand and quarter-minus into the clay might offer a better solution than a more expensive commercial product, but no one seems to have first hand experience trying this.


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Try mixing portland cement (the active ingredient in concrete) into the soil. 3000psi concrete is around 1:3:3 (portland cement, sand, gravel) by volume. Dump cement on the ground and use a rake/roto-tiller to mix it in. I'd try mixing to a depth of 1.5-2" in soil which would require a 3/16" to 1/4" layer of cement on top for the 1:6 ratio used in concrete. May want to go with a lower cement ratio if an extremely hard tread is undesirable (1:12?). Watering might be an issue since it's desert... Compact once wetted with a tamper or lawn roller.

A fertilizer spreader (drop type not rotary) might work well to meter out cement if there's a lot of area to cover.

A 90 lb bag (1.5 cu.ft.) of portland cement would cover about 40 feet of 2' wide trail at a 1:6 ratio or 80' at 1:12. A bag is around $10 in our area.

Would recommend testing small scale first to see what happens since cement may react differently with clay vs. sand/gravel.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks for the reply Aero. 

As you said, I'm not looking for a hard surface, but this solution has been suggested several times so I think I better give this another think. 

Some of my concerns:

Will the resulting surface still be workable? Can it be dug up and repacked?

I'm assuming the surrounding untreated soil will erode away as riders go off the edge. I'm concerned that I will end up with a tread that is higher than the surface around it. I've seen this situation on some trails around San Luis Obisbo area and on some bike-parks. Do you think this an unwarranted concern? If the answer to the first question is "Yes" (it can be reworked) then I imagine I don't have a problem. 

Not finished here, but got to go...

Later


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

I would caution don't go with the concrete until you *KNOW* exactly where you want the trail to go or you will have a mess on your hands. Given the trail is only 0.7 miles, I think building wood is your best bet and will not "mess up" the ground which may be an easy sell to the school / parks. Without a ton of effort you can recreate most natural features with wood if you know what you're are doing. 

I find the best inspiration for building is to go ride as many new trails (and old favorites) as I can and really look for / think about the sections of the trail that made you unavoidably toss out a "WHEEWWWHH" or just put a big smile on your face. Maybe take some photos of those specific spots.

The other thing to keep in mind is flow. It can be easy to think about packing as much skill features into the spot as you can, but I would also encourage you to think about speed and how the features will connect. If you put a ton of skills stuff that will require the kids to have to pedal like mad between or reset the bike to connect, it will not be popular with them. Think about small rises or drop and how to carry that speed into (without braking if possible) the next feature. 

Watching and talking to my son who rides with me on the trail I am building, he constantly likes to point out where he has to brake (as a negative). I am trying to be mindful of that as I craft the lines of my trail and would counsel you to do the same for maximum enjoyment for the younger generation. It's mostly us old guys who don't mind pedaling and/or braking!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks for the reply Roughster


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Maybe you're getting ahead of yourself with the soil hardening? Is erosion a big issue currently or is it something you think _might_ happen? May be best to wait and see if it becomes a problem and do spot treatments as needed.

Adding a high concentration of cement to the soil will make it a solid mass which will crack and breakdown over time. It will be hard and won't behave like typical soil; more like really crumbly rock. If you want something workable, maybe try mixing pea gravel into the soil with a tiller and wetting/compacting. We sometimes use gravel to harden wet areas on clay soils.

I wouldn't expect soil to erode from trail edges unless there is a steep slope and heavy rainfall or riders aren't staying on the tread on some kind of slope. Photos posted look pretty flat. Significant erosion usually requires moving water which requires slope.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

aero901 said:


> Maybe you're getting ahead of yourself with the soil hardening?


I've been known to do that 



aero901 said:


> Is erosion a big issue


No, but the "moon-dust" is difficult to ride in and any berms/turns we attempt to develop simply break down.



aero901 said:


> Adding a high concentration of cement to the soil will make it a solid mass which will crack and breakdown over time. It will be hard and won't behave like typical soil; more like really crumbly rock.


Yes, this is my concern and not what is wanted.



aero901 said:


> If you want something workable, maybe try mixing pea gravel into the soil with a tiller and wetting/compacting. We sometimes use gravel to harden wet areas on clay soils.


I think this is the approach that makes the most sense, but I'm thinking quarter-minus instead of pea-gravel (don't know if you were being specific or just meaning small) since quarter-minus has sharp edges and packs better, and maybe sand as well. As has been suggested, I need to do a test section.



aero901 said:


> ...unless there is a steep slope


To add interest, one of the primary strategies is to route the trail up and down along a 4' berm. This has become the favorite part of the trail, but half of the turns are off-camber and just one rider straying off blows out the berm for a week.



aero901 said:


> ...moving water which requires slope.


No water in this equation 

Tried uploading some pics, but the interface has defeated me this morning


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Just got a $1,000 budget and a front-loader promised by the district to do some test sections!

I've been talking to the district about this project since last year. The response has always been encouraging, but there hasn't been any movement, probably because I haven't made a specific enough request. Today I saw the district Superintendent and COO on campus today and walked up and asked for money to start some test sections. Got a verbal approval on the spot and was asked if next week was soon enough. 

This is why I love this site. I would never have stepped out except for the inspiration I get here! 

Current plan is to mix sand and quarter-minus with the moon-dust to stabilize the tread then add rip-rap and larger boulders intermittently. I just spent $1,500 on boulders for my yard, so I know it won't go far, but I'm hoping that once I get some example sections completed, it will be easier to raise money for the rest.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Edit: Posted this to the wrong thread, lol.


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Yep quarter minus is the stuff. We've also used turfstone pavers for high erosion areas and they work well. Movable if necessary and can be used to reinforce loose berms.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

We've been "riding in" the trail since last year, but started getting serious last night. Painted out my first test section and then worked on benching the sections that are on a slope and berming corners on the flats; last night, this morning, during my prep and on my lunch-break  I'm stoked! The team got to ride it at practice today and they are excited too! Maybe not as much as I am lol  Took some pics but you can't see a thing. I'll get pics up one of these days.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Amazing what you don't notice when you're not paying attention. I started digging in curves that we've been riding for the past year and discovered that the watering system in the field hits parts of our trail that I never realized it hit! Now that I have created berms, one of the turns has turned into a puddle! No water here! HA!

Anyway, progress! I've been hesitant to actually DIG because I keep imagining if I do, someone will come along and tell me to stop. With the Superintendent and COO's go ahead and the iminent promise of money for materials, I have started digging in anticipation of the quarter-minus I plan to put down. Even without the quarter-minus, it is amazing the difference it makes. The kids are having a blast and I am stoked beyond my expecations.

Before








After


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*SOme progress*

Just a couple of pics of riders on the trail.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Up to the point of the post above, I hadn't started digging, I had simply been having the team riding a path in. Many sections became soft and powdery making it difficult and unpleasant to ride. 

After the promise of some money for material from the district last month, I started digging some trial features to experiment with different soil ammending strategies. I am very excited to have discovered that the only thing I need to get a stable surface is a bit of moisture before I pack it. It's been a messy learning curve, the powder turns to glue when wet! I'm still working out getting just the right amount of water and the right amount of soaking time but for berms and rollers, it seems that all I need is some moisture, a tamper and a hoe; no money, no material , no other equipment. I made myself a watering barrel that I put on my flatbed. This gives me 30 gallons at a time. It's really slow, but thats actually a good thing as the soil is hydrophobic and the water beads up and flows away at anything more than a trickle.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Roller Derby*

More progress. I'm calling this Roller Derby.








I'm doing rollers on 15' intervals with about 2' differential, peak to trough. 







It's a straight flat stretch that needs to also serve as a seating area during games for spectators, so options are pretty limited. 







After riding 3 of them, I think I'll probably be shaving them down a bit, as they tend to launch me a bit, but I'm waiting till we have a longer string to decide about that.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Rain? What rain?*

We get 4" of rain a year. Seems it all came in a couple of days this year.

















I'm actually happy to see this. The one thing I need to consolidate the soil is water and I've been hauling it out in a 30 gallon barrel. This was WAY easier LOL. It was ridable again in about 3 days.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Using what you got.*

I have incorporated this 90 foot long curb into the track. This isn't building anything, but it has become an important "feature" in the track. It's really surprising what a newby rider can do when you don't tell them it's impossible 









As it is, there are two or three spots where the surrounding dirt makes a natural ramp where you can get back on when you slip off. I've considered digging it out a bit to make falling off a bit more dramatic, but really, it's pretty perfect as it is. Another consideration is to dig it out to make it look more clearly a part of the track. As it is on-campus in a very visible area, aesthetic considerations do figure in.

I have it marked at 10' 30' and 90'. I have begun a system of qualifications for my riders. They complete a group of challenges to move from "Level 1 rider" to Level 3 rider". 10' is a level 1 challenge. 90' a level 3.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Update*

Here are a few before and after shots. There's more, but this is enough for now. Have a work party scheduled for tomorrow morning. First time working with others so I'm a bit nervous. Have the TBL, a compactor and some hand tools. I'm injured and can't do any manual work, so it should be interesting.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Lots of new work*

Here's another update. A couple of pics from several months ago using the school district's machine. It is in poor condition and something broke while I was using it. A couple weeks ago, a local business owner borrowed me the use of one of his compact excavators for the weekend; it's still here 3 weeks later! I've been using it nearly every day during my lunch break and on weekends. Getting a lot accomplished.

Preparing for a community event on March 7th. Hope to have all the new work buffed out by then.

90 of curb to practice skinnies. 1st 10 feet is close to flush, the next 20 feet, about 5" dug out, the rest dug out about 10". Ramps every 20' or so to get back up if you fall off. This shot is in the middle of the work, so it doesn't show the finished product. 








This feature is some months old and has evolved as irrigation has eroded it a bit. It has turned into a rather techy ridge ride with multiple lines for drop ins and climb outs from the low side. Lots of fun and tons of line options. I think I mentioned in another post that some local adult BMXers had been doing some digging on the track. This where they were digging. The wall in the photo is the one that they were jumping, using the feature as their launch.















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This is a significant expansion to the favorite berm feature named Shipyard. I am a bit disappointed that the longer ride doesn't really seem to make it more fun. Hoping that changes once it gets buffed out. At this point it is a struggle just to get through it because of the roughness and loose surface. Need to get a compactor and some water on it. 




































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Before this point, everything has been pretty low key and out of sight. Many students and staff haven't even been aware that I'm building a track that's half a mile long, all around the fields, for the past 3 years. This is a new feature right in the middle of things, every student in the school now walks right past it every day. Even though I walked my Principal through it before I started digging, I've still been worried that when she saw it she might decide I'm going a bit too far. Her reaction was quite the opposite and she is very enthusiastic about the expansion. It has made a mess of the campus with students tracking in mud and dirt into the classrooms, but that doesn't seem to bother her one bit. Dang I'm a lucky guy. 















---
Got some slabs from a crew that was doing some work at the school across the street. The job-boss agreed to haul them over to my track. Working up a step feature. Really not sure what I'm doing here, but I think I'm liking it. Haven't tried riding it yet as I stopped in the middle last night, just too bushed to put a finish on it. 
















There's more but that's all I have time for right now, got to get out there and do some work


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Look Ma, I'm on TV!*

The local TV station came to the track last week and did this nice little piece. I'm a little self-conscious because one of the clips shows me in street clothes, attempting the "skinny" and I look like I don't know how to ride at all! LOL

https://bit.ly/38iSNTL


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

That's awesome, Karl! The track looks fun and good for skill progression. 

Nice job with the features, and good luck with the event. The news spot was good, man! 

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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Signs!*

Worked with a local sign shop and got these fabbed up. Now for installation. The event I'm planning is coming up fast, I've got one week to get these up.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

ki5ka said:


> Worked with a local sign shop and got these fabbed up. Now for installation. The event I'm planning is coming up fast, I've got one week to get these up.
> 
> View attachment 1314065


That's awesome! Nicely done!


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## primo123 (Jan 1, 2017)

I also teach for a school district and I'm interested in starting a bike club here. Do you have any advice approaching the board with a proposal?


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

I have the good fortune of having a very enthusiastic Principal so I have never had to go to the board myself. 

Are you asking about starting a team or building a track or both?


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## primo123 (Jan 1, 2017)

I'm more focused on starting a bike club. I teach at an elementary school and would love to start a bike club once a week after school to build confidence, bike handling, and bike safety.

Cycling in general is basically non existent (which I'm trying to change)


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

PM coming your way


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Hey I was thinking on way in to work. You might want to reach out to your local TV station(s) /Newspaper(s). They are ALWAYS looking for local positive stories and I guarantee one or multiple of them will ask to interview you and air the piece. The added benefit is you may be able to put a plug in for donations and get some fundage from it. Just a thought!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

https://bit.ly/38iSNTL


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

First of two signs up









14 minutes later... 









It's been 3 years that this track has been in existence and this is the first time I've ever seen folks drive up to ride. What a fun bit of serendipity.


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

That's great, man! I hope many more attend and support the track. 

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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Markers*

Difficulty rating markers for multiple route options.


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## primo123 (Jan 1, 2017)

Those markers are a great idea. Don't you think it could cause some confusion if they are looking at the ground rather than ahead of them?

I suggest some cheap hammer in markers from Rock Art. They are 14 a piece and ship quickly. We used some for our local walkng path.

https://www.rockartsigns.com/d72/


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

I hope not! Guess we'll know after Saturday's event


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Got some more press, https://www.pressreader.com/usa/yuma-sun/20200305/281487868400565


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## Renzo7 (Mar 25, 2015)

Good stuff! I liked the article, especially the parts about all the effort going into the MTB project and the benefits the kids are getting from it.

Well done! 

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