# Trail Boss



## OB1 (Jun 5, 2006)

Ok as some of you know from the race I started a business 858concepts I am gonna make tools racks etc. 
So for my first product is the Trail Boss!!! @$60 this thing is worth every penny. The handle is removable so you can pack it up and hike or bike with it....hands free. 
Hit me up if you want one on here or call me @858-663-4242


----------



## Kool (May 20, 2009)

looks useless in my opinion


----------



## OB1 (Jun 5, 2006)

You would have to be a trail builder to appreciate this tool. Everyone who has used one raves about them. Anyone out there wanting a hardened steel, heavy duty, multi use trail took...shoukd give Andy a call. I did, and I now have 2.


----------



## mtbikernc69 (Mar 23, 2004)

The tines should have a little more space between them and a little more pointy. I like the concept of a removable handle. Looks very similar to the one Nupla makes.

Hey, Steve. How's Cali?

Mark


----------



## OB1 (Jun 5, 2006)

Doing good Mark. Nice to hear from you. This is the 3rd generation of that head. The spacing works best for our dg and sand conditions. Maybe he shoukd make an east coast style head as well. The loamy clay and moist conditions would call for minor changes. Thanks Mark.


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

I build plenty of trails. That tool would not be something I want here.


----------



## Kool (May 20, 2009)

OB1 said:


> You would have to be a trail builder to appreciate this tool. .


Is this your clever saying?

On the east coast where we build in rocks, roots, rocks and more rocks, your tool would work well in estimating the outslope of the trail tread ( That's if the bottom of your tool is flat.) otherwise it would be destroyed in a day not worth the $60. You should market it to golf courses, looks like it would do wonders in the sand traps.


----------



## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

O:

Being a very open minded once trail builder and now mostly a trail improver, do you have some video of the type of soil conditions your tool works well in? It certainly would work well for tamping when you don't have a tamper.

I use to use a McCleod in somewhat loamy California soils, and in the rocky soil condions in Arizona I like to use a 4" wide field hoe by prohoe. 

TD


----------



## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

With roots and leafs, the rake would pack up with stuff on each swing, Had that issue w/ the Lamberton Rakes. Cut the teeth off, and attach some actual haybine blades (fire rake teeth) and it would be interesting.


----------



## 858Rider (Jul 4, 2010)

Ok this thing rocks first of all. I'm a builder,rider,and fabricator...been one for 10+ years now. I would not make a crappy product and sell it. The head is 3/16 plate it packs a punch. I've had pro riders/ builders use it and they love the thing. And ill have more heads to come.


----------



## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

858Rider said:


> Ok this thing rocks first of all. I'm a builder,rider,and fabricator...been one for 10+ years now. I would not make a crappy product and sell it. The head is 3/16 plate it packs a punch. I've had pro riders/ builders use it and they love the thing. And ill have more heads to come.


858:

Could you give us a list of the pro builders who own and use this tool? The own part is important. That is the real test to whether someone is going to fork out $60 plus tax and postage to buy and use this tool.

Do you use this tool all day long or are there other tools you need to do your building and fabricating? What tools do you also use and what percentage of the time do you use your tool? Can you give us the name and pictures of some of the trails built with this tool, it would be helpful to know what kind of soil conditions you are working in.

TD


----------



## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I'm with Fattirewilly on the fire rake teeth idea. The blade looks solid and even though the bolts are drilled through the handle (weak point for chopping) I like the size and shape of the head and the fact that it's removable.

How is the weight compared to a McLeod? I'm an old man and swinging a McLeod all day is starting to be like hard work.

Got any video of it in use? Testimonials from the pro builders/riders?


----------



## The Prodigal Son (Apr 22, 2008)

OB1 said:


> Ok as some of you know from the race I started a business 858concepts I am gonna make tools racks etc.
> So for my first product is the Trail Boss!!! @$60 this thing is worth every penny. The handle is removable so you can pack it up and hike or bike with it....hands free.
> Hit me up if you want one on here or call me @858-663-4242


Our Conservation Corps (American Conservation Experience) here in Flagstaff, has well over 300 hand tools. Crews unload their vehicles and hand me all the broken tools, mostly loppers. We break about five pick mattocks each month, a few Pulaski's, five or more sledge hammers, and three or four McLeods.

I would prefer a heavier McLeod like this one. It would be interesting to see the difference between this design and one where you cut back from ten teeth to six, all being the wide teeth like the two outside ones. We mostly drag soil and rocks and tamp, so it's possible the ten tooth model would be fine.

Just realized how much more space this design would take to hang on racks. McLeods already take up a lot of space when hanging on racks. Maybe you could just remove the center teeth to allow the tools to be stacked tighter together.

I'd also like to see a Pulaski with a longer, thicker handle, something similar to what we use on our pick mattocks. We try not to issue Pulaski's to crews because they always come back with broken handles. People use the grubbing end to pry rocks out of the trail and the handles can't take the strain.

I've been trying to design a sledge hammer for years. One with a one piece head that includes at least four inches of metal at the base, where everyone seems to snap the wood or fiberglass handles by over-swinging it.

Can you give our non-profit a bulk price? We'll be adding tools later this year or early next year. How about custom colors? We have to paint our tools for identification. Having the heads pre=painted in our color would save time.

It's great to see someone get past the drawing board and actually create a useful trail tool. Keep it up.

J. Daniel Overton
Logistics Coordinator
American Conservation Experience
usaconservation.org


----------



## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Kool said:


> looks useless in my opinion


Your assessment is a bit harsh IMO. It does look 75% like a thick plated McLeod, and 75% McLeod is hardly useless.... The real question is whether one should select this over a standard McLeod. I probably wouldn't in its current configuration.

I'm not going to arm-chair quarterback this any further. I'll give the OP some kudos for building his own stuff and then showing it to the what's likely the most critical (in a good way) audience on the web when it comes to trail tools. I'd swing one for a bit just to see what its about if I had the opportunity.

I welded the grub end of Pulaski back on once, it was ugly and probably ended my tool building career!


----------



## TrailMasonJones (Apr 24, 2011)

Im ok with about 50% of it tamping and scraping looks ok. But! the rake is even worse than a standard Mcleod I tend to cut the tines off Mcloeds and cut in fire rake tines or more recently just make my own head. The fire rake tines work 1000 times better in the soil conditions I work in. But I must say good start we need more options in the trail tool market. 

o ya and save the name Trail Boss for that truly innovative tool I hope you come up with that all of us will be begging for its a waste on this modified Mcloud. Good luck and I hope you are successful with you business plans.


----------



## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

TrailMasonJones said:


> I tend to cut the tines off Mcloeds and cut in fire rake tines or more recently just make my own head. The fire rake tines work 1000 times better in the soil conditions I work in.


Cut in the tines? Sounds like a lot of work when you can just cut off the rake tines and rivet (I don't like bolts on the tamping surface of my McLeods) on serrated sickle bar blades that you can buy at any farm equipment dealer. They're hardened steel, super sharp, and easily replaceable.


----------



## TrailMasonJones (Apr 24, 2011)

Fattirewilly said:


> Cut in the tines? Sounds like a lot of work when you can just cut off the rake tines and rivet (I don't like bolts on the tamping surface of my McLeods) on serrated sickle bar blades that you can buy at any farm equipment dealer. They're hardened steel, super sharp, and easily replaceable.


not hard for me i have access to an industrial sheet metal notcher if i think to take it to work. otherwise it only takes 5-10 min with a cut-off wheel. I like the sickle bar idea but one of my goals is super cheap i made my last head for free out of some scrap.


----------



## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

The Prodigal Son said:


> Our Conservation Corps (American Conservation Experience) here in Flagstaff, has well over 300 hand tools. Crews unload their vehicles and hand me all the broken tools, mostly loppers. We break about five pick mattocks each month, a few Pulaski's, five or more sledge hammers, and three or four McLeods.
> 
> I would prefer a heavier McLeod like this one. It would be interesting to see the difference between this design and one where you cut back from ten teeth to six, all being the wide teeth like the two outside ones. We mostly drag soil and rocks and tamp, so it's possible the ten tooth model would be fine.
> 
> ...


Dan:

The fact you like this tool amazes me. I look forward to you purchasing a bunch of them and seeing what your crew thinks of them. They look way too heavy for an old guy like me. I don't understand what the rake side is used for in it's present configuration.

It looks like it would make a great tool for tamping.

TD


----------



## 858Rider (Jul 4, 2010)

I am working on one with a fire rake. I will post pictures later when I get home. And video will be taken this weekend and should be posted Monday. The handles have a metal sleeves that have a machined fit. So it not just slapping a piece of wood in the tube.


----------



## The Prodigal Son (Apr 22, 2008)

traildoc said:


> Dan:
> 
> The fact you like this tool amazes me. I look forward to you purchasing a bunch of them and seeing what your crew thinks of them. They look way too heavy for an old guy like me. I don't understand what the rake side is used for in it's present configuration.
> 
> ...


I agree it would be great for tamping, which we do a lot of. I've never been a fan of traditional McLeods. When using the rack side to pull loose rocks off a trail, you catch a tooth on a secure rock, and you break the tooth off. If you use the other side to drag rocks and soil, you dull the sharp edge and can no longer use it to cut the roots of sod or other plants. I would almost prefer a tool with two flat sides and no rake. But for ease of storing the tool, I'd prefer it had at least a 1 1/2" gap in the center of the rake, so when I hang them between long metal arms on the wall, the handle of the next tool fit into that gap, with the flat blade sitting on top of the lower tools blade. That might allow five tools per rack, and we have ocer 50 McLeods. As far as the weight, A Pulaski weighs only 2.5 pounds vs. a 5 pound pick mattock or a 12 pound sledge hammer. It's the weight of a tool that allows it to do it's job, in my opinion. Plus the thicker the metal, the longer it will last before it breaks. I use up a lot of time sharpening tools and repairing broken tools. I'd prefer a 4 pound McLeod vs. the 2.5 pound ones.

You keeping busy? I'm headed out in a few minutes to clean off loose rocks from the moto traffic on the Fort Valley Trails. You should come up some time and join me on a ride. Jim and I rode with some Texans last week, who were among the best technical riders I have ever ridden with. They rode in Sedona as well, so maybe you bumped into them.


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

The Prodigal Son said:


> I agree it would be great for tamping, which we do a lot of. I've never been a fan of traditional McLeods. When using the rack side to pull loose rocks off a trail, you catch a tooth on a secure rock, and you break the tooth off. If you use the other side to drag rocks and soil, you dull the sharp edge and can no longer use it to cut the roots of sod or other plants. I would almost prefer a tool with two flat sides and no rake. But for ease of storing the tool, I'd prefer it had at least a 1 1/2" gap in the center of the rake, so when I hang them between long metal arms on the wall, the handle of the next tool fit into that gap, with the flat blade sitting on top of the lower tools blade. That might allow five tools per rack, and we have ocer 50 McLeods. As far as the weight, A Pulaski weighs only 2.5 pounds vs. a 5 pound pick mattock or a 12 pound sledge hammer. It's the weight of a tool that allows it to do it's job, in my opinion. Plus the thicker the metal, the longer it will last before it breaks. I use up a lot of time sharpening tools and repairing broken tools. I'd prefer a 4 pound McLeod vs. the 2.5 pound ones.
> 
> You keeping busy? I'm headed out in a few minutes to clean off loose rocks from the moto traffic on the Fort Valley Trails. You should come up some time and join me on a ride. Jim and I rode with some Texans last week, who were among the best technical riders I have ever ridden with. They rode in Sedona as well, so maybe you bumped into them.


Rogue Hoe now has a No Break Rake.










You can get it as the opposite side of the 7" Rogue hoe as well, they just do not show it on the website yet.










It has completely replaced the McLeod for me. The Rogue Hoe almost did it, now with the thick, sharp rake head, I have my tool. :thumbsup:

https://www.prohoe.com/field_hoes.html


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

slocaus said:


> Rogue Hoe now has a No Break Rake.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they have those two mated, that's pure win for New England conditions.


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

thefriar said:


> If they have those two mated, that's pure win for New England conditions.


Just off the truck 15 minutes ago, and a day early.







It is the 70HR, 54" ash handle, or you can get it with a 48" ash; they probably do it in both lengths of fiberglass as well.


----------



## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Yum...

48'' will be for us, find it keeps the volunteers benching more precise with a shorter handle.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

That appears to be a workhorse of a tool. Cost?


----------



## Keepitsharp (Oct 7, 2009)

The new Rogue Hoes with a blade on one side and a no-break rake on the other is on the:

Roguehoe dot com (Trailbuilding page)

(Not enough posts for me yet to post any form of link, sorry! )

Great tool. We got ours, the one with a 40" hickory handle, from Forestry Suppliers. Usually the first tool to be picked on trail days!

edit: that's the one!


----------



## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

AZ.MTNS said:


> That appears to be a workhorse of a tool. Cost?


$69.95 and it will last a long time. My original Rogue Hoe has been sharpened twice and used and used and used. Great tools! :thumbsup:

We do enough business with them to get a discount, and picked up quite a few in March with the IMBA discounts in effect.

This one was given to me as a thank you for work I did on some hiking / equestrian trails.

.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

slocaus said:


> $69.95 and it will last a long time. My original Rogue Hoe has been sharpened twice and used and used and used. Great tools! :thumbsup:
> 
> We do enough business with them to get a discount, and picked up quite a few in March with the IMBA discounts in effect.
> 
> ...


Thanks, its nice to find durable tools that work well. :thumbsup:


----------



## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

slocaus said:


> Just off the truck 15 minutes ago, and a day early.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


slocaus:

You and I have had some stimulating discussions, but that tool looks like a real Weiner. I have just the person to try that tool out to see how it performs. I am curious about the No Break part thou, on the other Prohoe products I thought the no break guarantee applies to the handle connection to the blade sleeve. I actually broke the weld connection on my F55F, but I abused the tool so much on many projects that I just had a buddy weld it back together and it has worked great ever since then.

TD


----------



## The Prodigal Son (Apr 22, 2008)

Keepitsharp said:


> The new Rogue Hoes with a blade on one side and a no-break rake on the other is on the:
> 
> Great tool. We got ours, the one with a 40" hickory handle, from Forestry Suppliers. Usually the first tool to be picked on trail days!


Really? Why? I go out to do construction or maintenance and rarely take anything else but a pick mattock. Occasionally, I do need a sledge hammer, or a bucket and shovel. Plus I always have my folding limb saw. When hiking over a mile to get to a job, you can't bring more than a few tools. A pair of size 13 bootmattocks do all the tamping I need, as well as removing thousands of rocks from the trail, fast and efficiently. People often ask what is that one tool that does the most. It is surprising that the answer isn't agreed by all to be the pick mattock, followed in second by a good pair of boots.


----------



## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

The Prodigal Son said:


> Really? Why? I go out to do construction or maintenance and rarely take anything else but a pick mattock. Occasionally, I do need a sledge hammer, or a bucket and shovel. Plus I always have my folding limb saw. When hiking over a mile to get to a job, you can't bring more than a few tools. A pair of size 13 bootmattocks do all the tamping I need, as well as removing thousands of rocks from the trail, fast and efficiently. People often ask what is that one tool that does the most. It is surprising that the answer isn't agreed by all to be the pick mattock, followed in second by a good pair of boots.


TPS:

Your crack me up PS. You have left out that your body is broken down and that you have to take a lot of vitamin I to keep going. The boot thing is classic. I use to wear a size 10 1/2 boot, but this last year I have stepped it up and now buy size 12 or 13. I go to the second hand outdoor gear store in Sedona and buy a used rugged boot that looks like it will last several months kicking rocks and stomping in the loose soil. The store owner recommended me wrapping the boot toes with duct tape, which sounded like a good idea.

Was that your crew working on the Airport Vortex area two weeks ago?

TD


----------



## justinwp (Nov 12, 2010)

traildoc said:


> TPS:
> 
> Your crack me up PS. You have left out that your body is broken down and that you have to take a lot of vitamin I to keep going. The boot thing is classic. I use to wear a size 10 1/2 boot, but this last year I have stepped it up and now buy size 12 or 13. I go to the second hand outdoor gear store in Sedona and buy a used rugged boot that looks like it will last several months kicking rocks and stomping in the loose soil. The store owner recommended me wrapping the boot toes with duct tape, which sounded like a good idea.
> 
> ...


ACE did the great work at Airport recently.

Good luck with the boots in Sedona, my $400 fireboots may only last a year here :eekster:

The 'trailboss' tool would probably never go on the trail with me. The spacing on the rake end would make it pointless to use in my opinion. It won't allow separation of rocks dirt and would just clog with organics. I usually don't carry a mcleod anyway unless doing tread work or new trail. I always have a pick mattock though and if I can get away with, a grub hoe for less rocky areas to save my wrists.


----------



## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

justinwp said:


> ACE did the great work at Airport recently.
> 
> Good luck with the boots in Sedona, my $400 fireboots may only last a year here :eekster:
> 
> The 'trailboss' tool would probably never go on the trail with me. The spacing on the rake end would make it pointless to use in my opinion. It won't allow separation of rocks dirt and would just clog with organics. I usually don't carry a mcleod anyway unless doing tread work or new trail. I always have a pick mattock though and if I can get away with, a grub hoe for less rocky areas to save my wrists.


justin:

My secret sources indicate you may be close to the fire in Arzona. If anyone can get that thing under control it's you. Be safe if the intel is correct.

TD


----------



## The Prodigal Son (Apr 22, 2008)

traildoc said:


> TPS:
> 
> Your crack me up PS. You have left out that your body is broken down and that you have to take a lot of vitamin I to keep going. The boot thing is classic. I use to wear a size 10 1/2 boot, but this last year I have stepped it up and now buy size 12 or 13. I go to the second hand outdoor gear store in Sedona and buy a used rugged boot that looks like it will last several months kicking rocks and stomping in the loose soil. The store owner recommended me wrapping the boot toes with duct tape, which sounded like a good idea.
> 
> ...


Yes, that was an ACE crew. I think they were doing a lot of rock work, since they took a generator from the shop to run the electric jackhammer.

I am more broken down than I care for. I had some time to thnik about why I keep doing this, while out in the woods yesterday. I could barely stand up straight after doing a lot more than just kicking loose rocks off the trail. Then I got lost hiking out of the woods. All I could think about was that little pebble that found it's way inside by boot and just under the ball of my foot.

I'm laying around watching movies today, convalescing. Pulled something in my shoulder, back feels inflamed, hip hurts. Took 800mg of vitamin I when I got home last night and washed it down with a high-octane mix of rum, schnapps, various liqueurs, and some tangerine juice.At least I slept well. I might have to lay low for a while and leave this stuff for the youngsters.

Got a new frame and fork on it's way. Building up a Sedona bike. Next thing you know I'll be wearing all that lobster gear.


----------



## ATKTrailtools (Jul 25, 2015)

Hey guys I'm back after a couple years of redesign check us out in the trail building section under ATK trail tools thanks!


----------



## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm not taking a pessimistic view as some have but don't know about the rake side. We buy ZAC McLeods for the most part and the tines or rake side with those are ideal. I can't imagine not having that width. A video as was suggested would help me understand. Nothing against the tool builder but I'm guessing most here know exactly what they'll get and can do with other products. A video could help us see the value of this design.


----------



## Maday (Aug 21, 2008)

I can't see the images of your tool, but unless you are these guys you're going to have to change your name...

Trail Boss USA


----------



## ATKTrailtools (Jul 25, 2015)

Yes I am aware of that. I had it first but he beat me to it. 
Our site is Home and we have all of our info there


----------

