# bomb prof bike DH race bike



## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i am looking to build up a bike that is basicly bomb prof, as i am on a buget i figure that if i spend big £££ once i can keep it and wont have to keep spending to keep it running, so i am going to have the spec's of both builds, current and bomb prof. i am showing to ask you the MTBR knolage base is whether i would be making a BIG mistake.
okay the current spec as follows:

frame: orange patriot fr lt 2002
shock: fox vanilla rc 2002
bottom bracket: unknown
brakes: hope m4 w/ fixxed rotors, unknown year
casset: Shimano Deore XT 9-speed
chian guide: *N/A*
chian: sram pc-991
cranks/chian set: shimano xt deore hollow tech 3 ring set
front mech: shimano xt deore
grips: ruffian
handel bar: answer protaper
head set: suzzi logic
hubs: hope pro 2
tubes: kenda heavy duty 1.2mm thick wall
pedals: wellgo
rear mech: shimano deore xt
sadle: WTB rocket v
seat post: kore lite 2
shifters: shimano deore xt
stem: tranz x
fork: rock shox boxxer ride 2005 tf tuned to 12 stone (over my wieght, i was not the one who got it done)
front tire: maxxis high roller 2.1
back tire maxxis high roller 2.35
rims: alexrims dm24

thats the complete current spec and here is the proposed new spec:

frame: orange patriot fr lt 2002
shock: fox vanilla rc 2002 cutem valving to weight
bottom bracket: whats there already
brakes: hope m6 w/floating rotors
casset: Shimano Deore XT 9-speed
chian guide: *please suggest*, would like a e-13 one but i havent got any chian guide mounts
chian: sram pc-991
cranks/chian set: shinamo 2 or 1 ring depends on chian stay
front mech: shimano xt deore if needed
grips: ruffian
handel bar: answer protaper
head set: suzzi logic
hubs: hope pro 2
tubes: kenda heavy duty 1.2mm thick wall
pedals: wellgo
rear mech: shimano deore xt
sadle: WTB rocket v
seat post: kore lite 2
shifters: shimano deore xt
stem: hope DH stem
fork: fox 40 rc2 2009 lowerd to 7inch
front tire: maxxis high roller 2.35
back tire maxxis high roller 2.5
rims: alexrims dm 24


i have used red to show what i am changing and requireing suggestions. this will be set up for DH only as i will race it if i ave any luck

thanks for all feed back


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## nouseforaname (Jan 8, 2007)

Sell your Patriot, and put them money you get, plus the money you were going to spend into a Giant Glory. Best bang for the buck (or £).


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

ya see thats a problem, i love this bike its brittish exsentisertys and it would be dramticly cheaper to keep this bike, giants as far as i no over here cost a bomb and this patriot came pretty much free to me and i have a lot of emotional value in this frame

just worked out it could be near a grand cheaper just to upgrande this one


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

come on people please help


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

Back tire bigger than the front = Dumb, do it the other way around or make them the same.

Fox 40 is a race fork and needs a good amount of maintenance. Get an '06 888 RC2x if you want bombproof. e.13 chainguides can use a BB mount adapter, use that. Hope brakes are way expensive. Plenty of cheaper brakes would be fine or just keep your M4s and get the floating rotors if that's what you want.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

combatkimura said:


> Back tire bigger than the front = Dumb, do it the other way around or make them the same.
> 
> Fox 40 is a race fork and needs a good amount of maintenance. Get an '06 888 RC2x if you want bombproof. e.13 chainguides can use a BB mount adapter, use that. Hope brakes are way expensive. Plenty of cheaper brakes would be fine or just keep your M4s and get the floating rotors if that's what you want.


infact the 40 IS NOT a race fork its just DH/FRX fork, i had desided on the 40 for the geometry as well as lowerd to 7 inch on my patriot is going to have the perfect geo for me. i need to chance my brakes as they are giving up the ghoast. also the 40 has a lot less maintenance then the boxxer.

the reason for having my tire that was around is becuase i like having a narrow front tire so it is more predicable when in rock gardens as they hit less rocks and also is easyer to turn faster and with less sentrafugal resistance. also reason for larger back tire is for better braking from a larger tire. and also if i ave a smaller back tire i always get snake bites.

one last thing would it be possible for a link to the adapter?


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

pretty cool school system to have a bomb prof


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## skippyroo (Nov 10, 2008)

dont waste your money and just buy a new demo 8 or a glory

no point spending money like that on a 6 yr old bike, u clearly dont know what your on about if your on here asking for advice so just take this advice and buy a new demo or glory or a second hand bike thats only 1 year old with way better specs tahn what you already got


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

essenmeinstuff said:


> pretty cool school system to have a bomb prof


eh? wot u mean school?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

skippyroo said:


> dont waste your money and just buy a new demo 8 or a glory
> 
> no point spending money like that on a 6 yr old bike, u clearly dont know what your on about if your on here asking for advice so just take this advice and buy a new demo or glory or a second hand bike thats only 1 year old with way better specs tahn what you already got


i would rather keep this bike over ANY others (exepting the new 09 224 but this would be cheaper), i hate with a passion demo 8's never ridden a glory but they have quite a few things i dont like.

think of this bike as a retro with a modern twist race bike.

all i asked for was any opions on the parts choice not the frame choice.

many have ridden my bike as a comparison to many others and all were suprised at the way it keeps all speed over any thing, okay to most it does not look like a good bike but it is amazing.
all i ask for not is a link to an adapter for the chian guide?


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

maybe instead of all the upgrades you have planned except for the tyres, get a 224??


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

Allrighty then.

Sounds like you've already made up your mind. Get the 40, learn how to replace the bladder and change the oil often. You're going to have what I call a Fiftytwothousand. Fifty dollar frame and two thousand dollars worth af parts LOL.

Your tire setup is just goofy and the High Roller isn't a good front tire.

You can find a pic of the BB adapter on your own I imagine.


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## skippyroo (Nov 10, 2008)

personally i think ur a penis just by the pooh that dribbled out of your mouth about the tyre set up alone


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## skippyroo (Nov 10, 2008)

hahahahahaha


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

just seel that, and get a real bombproof downhill bike. get a demo 8 with 888s and a dhx or roco. now thats bombproof. it may not be light, but it aint gonna break either


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

I see your reasoning for the High Rollers now, you're running 24" rims. If your brakes are shot get the new ones.

Don't ask for opinions if you don't want to hear what people think.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

why all the suggestions for the demo i HATE it its such an uncofatable ton with a retarded link.

and you skippyroo, you dont understand personal choice and prefrance


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i was hoping for constructive critisem not just out right you're rong im right. and no there 26" wheels


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## combatkimura (Jul 17, 2007)

That's fine. I stated that the 40 was a race fork meaning that it is a high maintenance lightweight fork that emphasizes performance over durability. The 888 is a low maintenance bomb proof fork which is why I suggested it over the 40. You have an unorthodox tyre configuration that i don't agree with and would never recommend but if you like it then that's all that really matters.

My bad on the size of the wheels. Since they are 26" I would suggest using a high roller in the back and a Minion DHF on the front both with the same width.


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## redrook (May 16, 2008)

I don't think youll go far wrong with your new setup. Keep the orange frame, patriots are ace. 
In my experience its not a good idea to ask for setup advice on here, just go with what you want. There are too many individual opinions flying around the internet, the people they belong to usually have limited experience with anything other than their setup, or they are not willing to accept anything else other than what they regard as a perfect setup. 
I am one of those people since i have limited experience outside of what i own, but i use a raceface diabolus chain guide, cant reccommend enough. If youre prepared to maintain the fox 40 then i think it would be good, but ive used 888s and i like them a lot. Also newer boxxers might be worth a look.
As for brakes, Maguras are good, my brother uses them.
I cant see any glaring problems in your proposed setup, but again i'm no expert at all. Though in the end you should do what works for you since thats what its all about. Why do you want to use different size/width tyres btw?


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

First, learn to spell...queen's english my ass.

Also, your Patriot is going to ride a whole lot better with a 26" wheel in the back. How do I know this? I had a Patriot with a 24", and then I put a 26" on. Then you don't have to go about fouling up a perfectly good fork to fit your desired geo. If you want reliable, the Fox 40 isn't the fork for you...look into a Marzocchi as others have said. Or just do whatever you want.

Get some Saint cranks, they will hold up no questions asked. Some Formula or Shimano or Magura brakes will save you some money and work just as well as the Hopes, with the advantage of being easier to service.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i do not want a 888, i hate the look, have not had much luck with marz even with older ones, wieghed a ton with really screwed.

could you please out line the advatages (that i seem to miss) of having a larger front tire?

if you looking mantince wise the boxxer has a much higher mantince level requiring internals


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i pointed out that my sheel set is acherly 26" it says DM 24 on it.


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## redrook (May 16, 2008)

Yeah the 888s do have a certain look, but they are decent forks. But if you prefer the 40 then theres no problem, its all about what works for you. Also i find that if you get the parts you really want, youre prepared to put up with their shortcomings. Should be quite a rig.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Andrewpalooza said:


> First, learn to spell...queen's english my ass.
> 
> Also, your Patriot is going to ride a whole lot better with a 26" wheel in the back. How do I know this? I had a Patriot with a 24", and then I put a 26" on. Then you don't have to go about fouling up a perfectly good fork to fit your desired geo. If you want reliable, the Fox 40 isn't the fork for you...look into a Marzocchi as others have said. Or just do whatever you want.
> 
> Get some Saint cranks, they will hold up no questions asked. Some Formula or Shimano or Magura brakes will save you some money and work just as well as the Hopes, with the advantage of being easier to service.


Ha, he blew up on a couple of us yesterday. It was quite comical.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

besides i wont mind rebuilding any thing my self as i am plannin on doin basicly the rest of my life any way, gotta start some time


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## darkest_fugue (Sep 25, 2007)

go for a 2.5 minion on the front, i also like a big tire in the back, 2.5 high roller in the back 2.5 minion in the front, its a good combination


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

just replace the stuff when you need it......just ride and save your money


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

L2 spell...


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

darkest_fugue said:


> go for a 2.5 minion on the front, i also like a big tire in the back, 2.5 high roller in the back 2.5 minion in the front, its a good combination


AT LAST!!!!! some constructive critisem with a good suggestion! i thank you, and well yeh that mite work so thinking of giving it a go :thumbsup:


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## coiler8 (Aug 25, 2006)

Save your money and invest in a better education. You'll thank me later.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

coiler8 said:


> Save your money and invest in a better education. You'll thank me later.


sigh, i phsyicly carnt spell better, i am dyslecsic in english and canot spell any better, i have infact been having help with my spelling for 10 years and i do spell to the best of my abilty


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

He posted that in another thread, and he actually said he types like that to survive. It was a chuckle, then I mentioned my vision problem, and my experience with adapting and never heard from him in his combative tone again. Cop-out with regard to that. He expects others to dumb down their reading ability to answer him, an all too prevalent problem in all societies now where AIM and text message language has replace proper communication.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i do not expect you to "dumb down" i just would like you all to understand my posstion. just becuase i am not good at spell does not mean i am "dumb" i have been rebuilding engines drive trains ect for many years now and i am 15, i have a very merchincal logical mind, which does not work with english as the languge is not a logical way of spelling things.


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## StinkyFTW (Jun 29, 2008)

I don't know about that, at least 90% of words are pretty much phonetic in my opinion..... Did I use that word right?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i have no idea whats so ever whether you did can any one else varify it?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

bxxer rider said:


> i do not expect you to "dumb down" i just would like you all to understand my posstion. just becuase i am not good at spell does not mean i am "dumb" i have been rebuilding engines drive trains ect for many years now and i am 15, i have a very merchincal logical mind, which does not work with english as the languge is not a logical way of spelling things.


Try German. I'm learning it right now. If you think English has little logic, then look up such words as "alternator", steering rack, and "[outer] space" and tell me if this language conforms to the modern world or an archaic view of science and technology, then factor in the umlauts and sounds that don't exist, in between colloquial expressions (Kaputt, ganz kaputt, and of course, total kaputt!) that don't make sense.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Try German. I'm learning it right now. If you think English has little logic, then look up such words as "alternator", steering rack, and "[outer] space" and tell me if this language conforms to the modern world or an archaic view of science and technology, then factor in the umlauts and sounds that don't exist, in between colloquial expressions (Kaputt, ganz kaputt, and of course, total kaputt!) that don't make sense.


okay lets have a simple word to ilistrate my point, because is spelt like that, where as it wounds like it should be spelt becuse, that proves it is not logical


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

bxxer rider said:


> okay lets have a simple word to ilistrate my point, because is spelt like that, where as it wounds like it should be spelt becuse, that proves it is not logical


Ok, the word "sound".

Spelled, as opposed to "spellt" because people don't use "t" in spoken English unless they are not even focusing on their words in spoken language. Your problems may be originating not from where you claim if you're worried about how the written language doesn't make sense, since you're apparently writing from the way in which you speak, which is likely "total kaputt".


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> infact the 40 IS NOT a race fork its just DH/FRX fork, i had desided on the 40 for the geometry as well as lowerd to 7 inch on my patriot is going to have the perfect geo for me. i need to chance my brakes as they are giving up the ghoast. also the 40 has a lot less maintenance then the boxxer.
> 
> the reason for having my tire that was around is becuase i like having a narrow front tire so it is more predicable when in rock gardens as they hit less rocks and also is easyer to turn faster and with less sentrafugal resistance. also reason for larger back tire is for better braking from a larger tire. and also if i ave a smaller back tire i always get snake bites.
> 
> one last thing would it be possible for a link to the adapter?












With that said...

1) Why do you want better braking from your back tire? It sounds like you need to consider improving your braking technique rather than putting a larger tire on the rear. As others have said, either use the same size front and rear or put a larger tire up front. If you keep getting pinch flats, add some air pressure.

2) The 40, while it is a great fork, does require more maintenance than other DH forks. If you want a 7" fork, look at a Totem or 66 and you could save yourself some money. As someone already suggested, an older 888 would be a great choice too if you are okay with an 8" fork.

3) I could be wrong, but I think this is the adapter you are asking about: https://www.e13components.com/product_iscg.html


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

bxxer rider said:


> okay lets have a simple word to ilistrate my point, because is spelt like that, where as it wounds like it should be spelt becuse, that proves it is not logical


Uh, yes, absolutely.

Big tires make a lot of sense in the front, because you corner mostly with traction delivered from the front wheel. A big, grippy tire up there gives you more control in hard corners. How's this for some "constructive criticism": Buy a Maxxix Minion DHF 2.5.

Also, doesn't a Fox 40 cost about half of what a full 224 would run (not the GBR, but their privateer model). Maybe just pony up the cash now and get a solid race bike, and keep your Patriot for freeride and beating around. As a bonus, you can let Orange decide on the tires for you! Okay, I'm totally kaputt...


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

I wish I could've afforded a $1600 fork when I was 15...


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Try German. I'm learning it right now. If you think English has little logic, then look up such words as "alternator", steering rack, and "[outer] space" and tell me if this language conforms to the modern world or an archaic view of science and technology, then factor in the umlauts and sounds that don't exist, in between colloquial expressions (Kaputt, ganz kaputt, and of course, total kaputt!) that don't make sense.


Maybe its because you are not familiar with the language?

In English we also say things like "broken", pretty broken, really broken, etc, it might not be right but people say it "colloquially". 

Umlauts are pronunciation indicator things, they are trying to get rid of them, and changing them to be written how they are pronounced (which is kinda weird to me), so they (umlauts) do exist and make perfect sense.


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> eh? wot u mean school?


Sorry mate, shot that one too high...


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## Gemini2k05 (Apr 19, 2005)

bxxer rider
could you please out line the advatages (that i seem to miss) of having a larger front tire?
if you looking mantince wise the boxxer has a much higher mantince level requiring internals[/QUOTE said:


> Well, pretty much everything you said about why you run the tire set up you do.......say the reverse of that, and that is what is true. Smaller rear tires would get LESS pinch flats, larger front tires are better because they deflect off the rocks less, rather than more, etc.


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## Flystagg (Nov 14, 2006)

If you're going to drop $1600 on a new fork, you might as well spend 400 and upgrade your rear suspension too. I'm sure your Orange single pivot could benefit form a little propedal


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

C S said:


> With that said...
> 
> 1) Why do you want better braking from your back tire? It sounds like you need to consider improving your braking technique rather than putting a larger tire on the rear. As others have said, either use the same size front and rear or put a larger tire up front. If you keep getting pinch flats, add some air pressure.
> 
> ...


i have seen many many crashes due to too heavy front braking the forks dropped back tire lifted then hitting a slipery rock followed by a face plant. the 40 does not require as much mantince as the boxxer there for it does not require more then alot of forks being used.

i do not want a single crown besides i have alreasdy rulled out totem, domain and 66.
if i was to use an 8" fork i would just simply snap the headtube off, with the 7" boxer ride's it has a 64 degree angle and with the lowerd 40's it would be a 63.5 degree angle.

that is proberbly not quite the right adapter as i have no chian guide mounts what so ever


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

the trails i ride and all rock gardens and roots at basicly any part. i have found if i have a smaller tire i shove it in the grove and nothing goes wrong


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## rewt (Jul 21, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> that is proberbly not quite the right adapter as i have no chian guide mounts what so ever


That adapter doesn't require chain guide mounts. Do you run a BB on your bike? If so, that's the style you probably want since it mounts using the BB.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

essenmeinstuff said:


> Maybe its because you are not familiar with the language?
> 
> In English we also say things like "broken", pretty broken, really broken, etc, it might not be right but people say it "colloquially".
> 
> Umlauts are pronunciation indicator things, they are trying to get rid of them, and changing them to be written how they are pronounced (which is kinda weird to me), so they (umlauts) do exist and make perfect sense.


Actually, if I translate "total kaputt" here, the word filter will censor it.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

the 224 costs 4 grand here in the uk ( proberbly 8 or more in the us) there fore the 40 is less then a quarter of the price of the 224


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

Berkley said:


> I wish I could've afforded a $1600 fork when I was 15...


yeh and im paying for it my self


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

What do you work as?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

Flystagg said:


> If you're going to drop $1600 on a new fork, you might as well spend 400 and upgrade your rear suspension too. I'm sure your Orange single pivot could benefit form a little propedal


very big problem with that to why i am keeping the vanilla. it has an unsusal config, its 57mm stoke to 190 eyetoeye. so i carnt get a longer shock as it would hit the frame and if i were to loose the 7mm stroke thats an inch rear travel which is why im going to get it pushed with custem valving for my ridding style.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

no job simple but i have a job lined up for when i leave school. working at the LBS, building and repireing bikes. i was offerd it last summer but i had to turn it down and they have offer agian


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Did you fill out an application yet?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Did you fill out an application yet?


no not yet it was a personal offer by the head merchanic they say to check back in a month and if any chance then i get priority. i should get it any way as they are shiffting loads of bikes and carnt work on any thing with out a 2 week notice.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

I love this thread...

The OP wants a more durable bike, or at least a more durable frame, so everyone recommends the same stuff, which is touted as durable and bomb proof: Older Demo 8, 888's and Saint Stuff.

And the OP magically hates all of them...not to mention the look of the 888.

Kid...you're ridiculous, all I gotta say.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Does he know the difficulties he would have with you, in regard to being able to read instructions and the liability you can be?

Oh yeah, try firefox because it will spell check along the way when you post. If you're not bullshitting about having problems, then you will find that useful, but rest assured, you're not going to make too many friends on these forums and it's going to become comical.


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## cdburch (Apr 25, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> sigh, i phsyicly carnt spell better, i am dyslecsic in english and canot spell any better, i have infact been having help with my spelling for 10 years and i do spell to the best of my abilty


two words: spell check

that is something i will never understand. people who know they can't spell worth a damn not using the free and easy tools at their disposal to double check their work.


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> i have seen many many crashes due to too heavy front braking the forks dropped back tire lifted then hitting a slipery rock followed by a face plant.


Which means whoever crashed like that needs to learn how to use their brakes. You might want to read this: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=427049


bxxer rider said:


> i do not want a single crown besides i have alreasdy rulled out totem, domain and 66.
> if i was to use an 8" fork i would just simply snap the headtube off, with the 7" boxer ride's it has a 64 degree angle and with the lowerd 40's it would be a 63.5 degree angle.


Probably a good call not going with an 8" fork, but why would you rule out single crown forks ? If you are running a 7" fork, single crown is probably the best way to go.



bxxer rider said:


> that is proberbly not quite the right adapter as *i have no chian guide mounts what so ever*


Then it is the right adapter :madman:


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i am using firefox 3 i canot find the spell checker, its only writing and spelling i have difficulty with not reading


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

yes i know that was in responce to an adapter that needs some kind of mounts to use


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

Not to state the obvious, but you're not looking for constructive criticism. You're just looking for people to agree with you. I'm not saying whether all the advice you've gotten in the thread is right or wrong, I'm just pointing out that asking for advice is useless if you've already made up your mind that your way is the only right way.


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

to OP: when asking stuff like this, you are going to hear things you want to hear and things you dont want to hear. just got to live with it. yes your orange may be very dear to you, but a new bike may be the best option.....and change is always nice too, and so is a new(er) bike.

and guys, its not his fault hes bad at spelling


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

not quite i am looking for a serton amount costructive critisem to some thing other then some thing big like frame or forks as they are staying, i also asked for where i can get a thing so i can get chian guides


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay thank you for understanding the spelling point.

the only bike i would consider to replace the patriot is an 09 224, but that would blow the buget sky high and as im only 15 and not working i canot afford to have a sky high demand on money i do not have. this move with the patriot will only just be possible. this frame would not fetch much on its own although it is amazing to ride


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

bxxer rider said:


> very big problem with that to why i am keeping the vanilla. it has an unsusal config, its 57mm stoke to 190 eyetoeye. so i carnt get a longer shock as it would hit the frame and if i were to loose the 7mm stroke thats an inch rear travel which is why im going to get it pushed with custem valving for my ridding style.


That's actually true, there is only one shock, the Vanilla RC, that was made to fit these older Patriot frames. Fitting a shorter air shock makes it a very light 6" frame, I've seen several built that way.

Personally I think you should pony up for a real DH race bike, and turn the Patriot into an all-mountain type of rig; it's never going to be that great of a race bike anyway. I rode mine in several races, but by the next season, I was on a proper DH rig. Nothing against the Patriot, its an incredible and versatile bike, but it was never designed for a DH race course.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

bxxer rider said:


> okay thank you for understanding the spelling point.
> 
> the only bike i would consider to replace the patriot is an 09 224, but that would blow the buget sky high and as im only 15 and not working i canot afford to have a sky high demand on money i do not have. this move with the patriot will only just be possible. this frame would not fetch much on its own although it is amazing to ride


You could get a used Morewood Izimu for around $800, or as low as $500. I was looking for them a few seasons back when I was shopping for a frame, they're priced pretty low.

It's practically the same bike as the 224, Single Pivot. Morewood is high quality, adjustable geo frame. I can't see any reason to get a 09 224, an extremely expensive frame, for the same design as the Izimu (Unless the 224 isn't SP anymore, I wouldn't know, I haven't seen the 09's).


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## Madman133 (Apr 25, 2006)

ok heres the definition of Dylexia:
_"Most people think that dyslexia causes people to reverse letters and numbers and see words backwards. But reversals occur as a normal part of development, and are not seen only in people with dyslexia. The main problem in dyslexia is trouble recognizing phonemes (pronounced: fo-neems), which are the basic sounds of speech (the "b" sound in "bat" is a phoneme, for example). Therefore, it's a struggle to make the connection between the sound and the letter symbol for that sound, and to blend sounds into words."_
So that explains why you might have trouble spelling but it doesn't explain why you can't use a spell checker and it also doesn't explain why half of your sentences make no sense at all.

If you are going to reject peoples opinions because "I dont like the look of the 888's" or because you have a personal grudge against that product then why ask? This thread was about making your bike bomp proof and people suggested what they thought would work best and you shot down every one of the suggestions because you didnt like it. If you want your bike to be bomp proof then take peoples suggestions because you obviously dont know or you wouldnt be asking. Who cares what you bike looks like? You want a bomb proof bike but you are willing to give up reliability simply because you dont like how it looks or you have a grudge against that product because you are brand loyal and refuse to accept anything else. If you want to make your bike bomb proof then forget about looks, forget about personal grudges and take the advice that they offer you. Otherwise dont ask.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay can i point out the the 2002 patriot was the last year that it was a DH race bike. the year after it was replaced so my bike is supose to be a DH race bike as that is what it was made for in 2002. 

i am not going any where near air shocks, not worth the hasel. and if i change the shock it would go down to a 5" as it currently sits as a 6" bike. i will also only be racing for my first year if i start nex year but no garentees i will race ext year but i am really pushing to start racing.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

the 09 is a SP. and my mum is strongly agiest things made abroad she has come to accept that serton stuff has to be made abroad. also the geo on the 224 was made and done completely by steave peat.

here is the 09 224: http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2009bikes/bike.php?model_id=109 it has only just be realised


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Steave Peeat built it? Nais!


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## rewt (Jul 21, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> yes i know that was in responce to an adapter that needs some kind of mounts to use


I guess you missed my earlier response:

That adapter doesn't require chain guide mounts. Do you run a BB on your bike? If so, that's the style you probably want since it mounts using the BB.

Also, use spell check. If you are using FF3, enable spell check by clicking Tools -> Options. Select the Advanced tab at the top of the window, and check "Check my spelling as I type".


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i have a serton variant of a dylexia that is promaty focused on the writton languge.

and i am only "brand loyal" to hope and orange bikes. i had not heard any "good" reviews of marzocchi untill this thread and there still "good" reviews there only possitive reviews. i have heard alot of great reviews from the 40 rc2 and it can be lowerd to the right travel with the right axel to crown and i only think the 888 ata is the only one with any adjustable travel. and that fork is over £1000 so the 40 would be cheaper. also i have not found any one with the axel to crown of the 888 at all let alone close to what i require.

i do not hold any grudges to any brand or and person on here,


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## cdburch (Apr 25, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> i have a serton variant of a dylexia that is promaty focused on the writton languge.


all the more reason to use spell check. why not use the tools provided to you in order to be able to communicate more effectively?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay i did not know you could run a chian guild of a bottom bracket.

also my spell checker is infact on and it does nothing!


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

You've never heard any good reviews of marzocchi stuff? This forum is FULL of people gushing over the older zoke stuff from like 05-07 (it seems there have been problems with the 2008 models).

Also, I don't get how you keep saying that other forks are expensive when you're set on a 40 rc2x which, as far as I know, is one of the more expensive forks out there.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

nais? he designed it and the geo


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i mean about the 888 i have heard good reviews about other ones and i was refuring persificly to the ATA 888 which costs £1100 and the fox 40 rc2 is only £800 odd it still is epensive but i am willing to pay that for the 40


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

bxxer rider said:


> okay can i point out the the 2002 patriot was the last year that it was a DH race bike. the year after it was replaced so my bike is supose to be a DH race bike as that is what it was made for in 2002.
> 
> i am not going any where near air shocks, not worth the hasel. and if i change the shock it would go down to a 5" as it currently sits as a 6" bike. i will also only be racing for my first year if i start nex year but no garentees i will race ext year but i am really pushing to start racing.


Right, I have the same bike man. It's a freeride frame, not a DH race frame. It's wheelbase is too short, the bottom bracket is too high, and the head angle is too steep. And with the Vanilla RC on there it is getting 6.9" rear wheel travel, and you can count on losing about an inch of that with any other shock. I've ridden the Patriot with a DH build (Marzocchi Jr.T, 26/24" Atomlab wheels, 2.5" rubber, and all that noise. It sat at about 41 lbs.

Then I wised up to the frame's real potential, put a 6" single crown on, 26" wheels front and back, tubeless, etc. and got it down to 34 lbs. The Patriot is much better as a freeride/all-mountain bike than a DH racer. The frame is so stupid light that its a real shame to dress it up heavy anyway.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

what year was your patriot as the patriot evolved over the years drematicly. it was the origanl orange DH race bike then it got replced by the 22 serease. my bike has 5.9 rear travel with a 50mm stroke it is exacerly 5" 

in fact give me all the info you have on your year and modal of patriot.

mine is an orange patriot lt 5.9" rear travel. its 2002 boxxers giving 64 degree angle. it is a DH frame that is what the 2002 patriot lt was made for


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

Yo, bxxer rider....

I just wanted to let you know that "wot" is now a word in my everyday vocabulary.

Thank you for introducing me to the win that is wot.


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## Berkley (May 21, 2007)

Assuming you get the job (which you havent yet), it's gonna take you a while to make $1600. You may be just a tad ahead of yourself. And taking an 8" fork and putting it on a 6" frame sounds like a poor idea anyway. Get a 6" or 7" travel fork and some some cash.

I was 15 once and went through it all. You gotta pick your parts right, especially if you're strapped for cash.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

hehe no problem


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

another reason for the 40 is that is adjustable travel so if i lower it to 7" then it has the perfict geo for me at 63.9


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## KRUNNCH (Jul 8, 2008)

Would it be mean to have an age limiter on this forum? Would that fall under age discrimination? I got an idea. Go buy Mavis Beacon and practice typing. I read this entire thread and by the time I got to the end, I went from wanting to give advice to just wtf (acronym). Seriously, people are trying to help you and you are just :madman: . 

I still am just.... :shocked:


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

well im sorry i can trype properly just bevuase you complian. i try my best and theres nothing else i can do about it.


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## KRUNNCH (Jul 8, 2008)

bxxer rider said:


> well im sorry i can trype properly just bevuase you complian. i try my best and theres nothing else i can do about it.


Your first sentence was horrible.

Your second sentence was okay aside from a contraction.

So, you have a 50/50 chance of typing horribly.... That does not make sense. :skep:


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

god this is not an english lesson! this is a forum on mtb's!


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## KRUNNCH (Jul 8, 2008)

Like Chris Tucker said, "We cannnt undastan the worrds that r commin outta yo mouth!"


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay this is getting rediculas i never asked to be insulted can do so to you in return if you want?


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## KRUNNCH (Jul 8, 2008)

bxxer rider said:


> okay this is getting rediculas i never asked to be insulted can do so to you in return if you want?


I am sorry, "wot" does that mean? Was that a gigantic run on sentence? Was there suppose to be a period or comma somewhere in that "sentence"? Are you asking me if you can insult me in return for insulting you? Seriously? :madman:


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

bxxer rider said:


> god this is not an english lesson! this is a forum on mtb's!


Looks like there's a direct relationship between you getting pissed off and your ability to express yourself better.

To all: Take notes, reply accordingly.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

and thats supose to mean?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

you really are draging this on for longer then is needed

and gramar in the least of my worries


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## KRUNNCH (Jul 8, 2008)

Then stop wasting time by asking stupid questions. You got your advice, you rejected it with no you are wrong, this is what I want. Clearly you already know what the h*ll you want and are sticking to it.


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## skippyroo (Nov 10, 2008)

as i said on page 1 you are a penis bxxer i think you need to learn how to do more than just spell. i think we should just end this thread here as its a waste of space, its just like beating your head against a wall with this guy he just cant get it through to his pea size brain.

giving you advice about anything is like clapping with one hand!!!


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

this is not how it is. i have lisened explian why i disagree and no one truly answered my main question!


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## derfernerf (Jun 25, 2006)

KRUNNCH said:


> Then stop wasting time by asking stupid questions. You got your advice, you rejected it with no you are wrong, this is what I want. Clearly you already know what the h*ll you want and are sticking to it.


dude, i wish you were standing in front of me so i could punch you in the face.

you posted 4 times within 20 minutes making fun of his grammar. WHO CARES! he has a hard time typing/writing....get over it. are you going to go up to someone who is mentally handicap and yell at them "YOU ARE STUPID! GO LEARN HOW TO TALK!!!" no. why? because its not their fault.

to OP: bxxer, please take some of the advice people give you into consideration. they are telling you the best thing to do. you may really like your frame, but you may like something else way better and you wont even know it. if you want something for racing, a new bike would be your best bet. and there are plenty of reviews on bikes/parts here on MTBR. go take a look at them


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## KRUNNCH (Jul 8, 2008)

derfernerf said:


> dude, i wish you were standing in front of me so i could punch you in the face.
> 
> you posted 4 times within 20 minutes making fun of his grammar. WHO CARES! he has a hard time typing/writing....get over it. are you going to go up to someone who is mentally handicap and yell at them "YOU ARE STUPID! GO LEARN HOW TO TALK!!!" no. why? because its not their fault.
> 
> to OP: bxxer, please take some of the advice people give you into consideration. they are telling you the best thing to do. you may really like your frame, but you may like something else way better and you wont even know it. if you want something for racing, a new bike would be your best bet. and there are plenty of reviews on bikes/parts here on MTBR. go take a look at them


Ah...one of those people who feels the need to 1) Talk tough online. Sorry, don't care. 2) Defend others.

Who cares, he can defend himself. He doesn't need his father doing it for him.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

thankyou. i were getting fed up with him.

one point of upgrading parts now is so later i can change the frame over spreading out the cost a bit more while still having a rideable bike.


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## rewt (Jul 21, 2007)

Spelling check should be working if you enabled it in FF per my original instructions. When you type into a text areas (like the box you type in to post on this forum), FF will underline misspellings in red.

If you followed my directions, and it's still not working, you can do the following:

Right-click in a text area
Select "Add dictionaries..."
In the new window, select the appropriate dictionaries to add, e.g. English.

Now, to enable spell check in text boxes (like the box at the top of the "Reply to Thread" window labeled Title), follow these directions:
http://www.nirmaltv.com/2008/03/08/how-to-enable-spell-check-in-text-fields-in-firefox/

I know at the ripe old age of 15 you feel like you know better than everyone, and you think spelling is not important... but it is. Written language is very important (especially when you enter adult life), and you will be judged on how well you write. Being ragged on an Internet forum is only a very small part (and honestly, the ideas about improving your spelling and/or using spelling aids is the most important advice you've received in this thread). For example, how do you expect to get a real job when your potential employer thinks you're illiterate?

This information is my public service for the day...


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

rewt said:


> Spelling check should be working if you enabled it in FF per my original instructions. When you type into a text areas (like the box you type in to post on this forum), FF will underline misspellings in red.
> 
> If you followed my directions, and it's still not working, you can do the following:
> 
> ...


okay now i have managed to get the spell checker to work. hopefully it makes this post make sense to some of you!

as a career I am hoping to start off as just a hand in a bike shop then move on to specialise in suspension for mountain bikes. I have never been suited to desk work I have always been more hands on which is why I want to take the career I have said above.

I don't think fire fox 3 has a grammar checker, can any one verify?


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

Much better.


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## FoxRider77 (Jul 28, 2005)

I was in the same position when I was 15, and now 2 years later I can say that you should probably sell the orange for a DH bike or just turn the orange into a sweet FR rig. You will spend too much money building up your bike with parts. I spent $2000 instead of $1500 for a similar bike.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

yay, some one noticed, so sorry for all the confusion before about my spelling helpfully it is sorted now.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

see I know that people probably wont like me saying this again but the only bike that i would consider changing to is a 2009 224 and that is £4,199.95 ($6 331.42 at current exchange rate according to google) at the best of times. i have never seen another patriot specified as high as mine is at the moment including any newer models. the only other bike i have considered in the past was an intense m6 but could not find the right one.


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## rewt (Jul 21, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> I don't think fire fox 3 has a grammar checker, can any one verify?


Unfortunately, it does not, but your posts read *much* better even without one. :thumbsup:


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## ducktape (May 21, 2007)

All this spelling crap has really ruined your thread - I mean it's probably a page worth of bike related info and 10 pages worth of spelling arguments!

I agree with you - I would wait for this baby to come out before switching out bikes....


















In the meantime like others have suggested, maybe consider a single crown fork for your Patriot - like a Totem, or a Domain even if you're on a budget.

I can understand your attachment, I've recently aquired an orange 222 frame, and once you get your hands on such a simple and low maintenance single pivot bike it is so hard to even consider the more complicated looking ones with linkages and bearings all over the place. But on one point, in regards to bike weight I think most bikes like the Demo are not as heavy as they look, and most people tend to discount them as being lead weights where in fact it's not the case.

The older model Shimano XT brakes are dead easy to maintain, I would highly recommend them, or maybe look at Saints etc. 
Stem, well that's pure personal preferance. 
Cranks - whatever you go for you may as well change the BB at the same time, or at least check the condition of your current one (particularly if it's as old as your frame). I'm running Race Face Diabolus cranks & bb on mine, they are heavier than some but I like them.
No idea on the chainguide.
Tires - well I'm yet to try the much touted Minion DHF's, I'd probably go for 2.5 both front & rear. The main reason people run a skinnier tire in the back as far as I know is to save weight.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Most bike shops don't have somebody to do just suspension... or just brakes... or whatever.

If you want to do high end stuff, you probably have to deal with many times as much of the low end stuff.

A shop owner isn't just going to throw a 3000 dollar bike at a kid he just hired. You'll probably sweep a lot of floors and build a lot of kids bikes and comfort bikes. Do lots of flat changes. Stuff like that.

Communication skills are VERY important. If you can't communicate... you can't get work done, you won't be around for long. Speaking with customers and other employees is a big part of any job. And you will have to write things down.

Don't expect high pay... It's not glamorous work. I would've made more money at a grocery store than at the first two bike shops I was with.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

ducktape said:


> All this spelling crap has really ruined your thread - I mean it's probably a page worth of bike related info and 10 pages worth of spelling arguments!
> 
> I agree with you - I would wait for this baby to come out before switching out bikes....
> 
> ...


(sorry at school so no spell checker.)

I havent even seen that bike before but I really like the look of that bike.

I have already said and will repeat I have looked at totems and domians and have discounted them, I cannot reamber why agian but I will have another look into them.

i am hoping to have a look and find out what BB i have and its condition, expect something on that soon as I probably wont be able to intify it myslef.

i always seem to get snake bites if i have a small tire on the back even with 40psi in it. when i changed to a larger one the problems stopped instantly. Even running 30psi no problems since.

the simplicety of SP is almost irristable, did one can a cracking sound took the cap of the end of the pivot greased abit probloem solved.

I have developed this hatred of demo's from my freinds and another from the local trails, as i am light i cannot shift them back to the top of the trails all the time. my friend has a 06 demo 8 pro with talas 36 and the hole rog wieghs a ton! I can only just get a bit of style in the air but never able to get strianght for the landing where as my patriot is like controlling a feather in the air no resistace there at all. so I am not saying this agienst demo's with out even ridding one as I also helped him build it. I have ridden the other demo as well which has the weight distrbuted a bit better as it has fox 40's up front (love them) and a ti spring on the back.

i am tempted to give minions ago

when doing single track's i hardly ever touch the front brake, if I ever need to brake I use the back only (not skidding) or unless an emergancy when I use the fron brake which is why I like a big tire on the back for that braking.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

i am a good communitce when it some to meeting me in person.

i am not looked for a glamorous career i want to do it as its what i enjoy doing. i have always enjoyed doing eny thing merchnical.

this bike shop mainly deals with top end road and off road bikes, no apollo's any where  I know them well, all the merchanics of owner of the shop, its where I bought my orange from and they have been the only ones to touch it, I havehad them do over £200 work done to it so far as I do not have a tools to do it my self. and they even gave me a discount when I bought the bike for being possibly there most loyal custemer I have only used them as a bike shop for the last 10 years. i can even reamber taking a bike in when about 7 that i had bend the frame on, i used to love stairs  till one fate full day

any how thanks for all the possitive replys :thumbsup:


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## hugeben (Jan 15, 2006)

Oranges aren't exactly bomb proof. Just sell it and upgrade to a used bike. Buy quality used stuff and save your money. There is no point buying brand new fox 40's when they come on lots of bikes stock. Trade up.

Frame: Glory or demo7 (the old demos cracked). You patriot is quite old, I'd expect it to crack soon.
Fork: get a marzocchi of some sort, probably an 888 rc2x or 66 (don't ever get rcv/vf/rv they feel ****)
Guide: e-13 srs or something with a big plastic bash
Brakes: Hope might be cheap for you in the uk? Avid juicy or shimano saints work well and cost less, both have ample power.
Tyres: 2.5" minions, go ghetto tubeless if you want to save weight. High rollers are not as grippy as minions. Use wet screams if you ride muddy tracks.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

orange's here in the UK have the bomb proof reputation here is a MBUK review of it: http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/reviews/pdf/Patriot_MBUK_1007.pdf the main bit in the review is this:

"One big plus is that it was the only bike here that we had absolutely no issues with. Despite months of pounding and several big offs at home and in the Alps its bombproof reputation is still firmly intact."

as I have stated many times there is NO WAY I am getting a demo! I would much rather have my current build then a world cup build on a demo with every thing set to weight. which mine is currently not.

I don't no any thing about e-13 or any chain guides, or any others for that matter as never dealt with them before. so a bit lost there.

i do not ride muddy trails I ride continuous rock gardens and roots, some of the rock gardens are made with bricks (not laid flat bit with the pointy bits pointing up ect..) and the high roller work great on these.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay I just want to know will this chain guide work for a two ring set-up on my patriot, remembering that is does not have any proper mounts.
http://www.e13components.com/product_dss.html

thanks


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

If you're going to try and get into bike sales / maintenance as a career, spelling/grammar aside, you really need to understand why your supposed tire combo/choice is so universally deplored. 

It is almost without exception a bad idea....

Front tires are for steering control and front brakes are for controlling your speed. 

Back tires are for traction under acceleration (And obviously because you need 2 wheels!) and back brakes are for for braking that helps you steer.

You shouldn't really be using your back brake to slow you down too often, it tends to just lock up (this can help you to steer the back around to help you turn better)

Using your back wheel to slow you down means you lose a lot of control as the wheel you are steering with is still free to move; (Imagine this...turn your front wheel 90 degrees to the right, put your back brake on, and push forward. The bike will swerve to the left because there is no braking control on the front tire.)

(Cars have big front brakes to control their speed on the wheels that steer. Other than very high performance cars, rear brakes are for balance in braking and parking brakes!)

With all of this in mind, a bigger front tire is preferred by a vast majority of riders, i personally run a 2.35" High Roller rear and a 2.5" Minion front. I believe this is a popular combo. I'll quote a similar thread i replied to last a few months back:

"Also, this may be a topic for another post, but what exactly is the attraction of a high-rolling rear wheel? Do you like what it does? I've been told this is being seen more commonly on MX bikes (trials tire on the rear), though i personally haven't noticed."

"I think (IMO) the perfect thing is to have both front AND back high rolling, but you obviously need more grip on the front as this is your turning tyre. The rear tends to follow the front (Physics-wise) so doesn't need grip as much. I used to run a near slick on the back of my DJ bmx, and a beefier knobbed tyre up front. Most people i rode with had a similar setup"

Because of the position of the tires relative to the centre of gravity the front has to act in a very different way, having a larger front, means square edge hits get dealt with better and the larger surface area means less deflection relative to the size of the tire.
The back tire will get dragged over what ever it hits, but rolling resistance is best avoided here to make sure it doens't slow you too much. 

I've gona on way too much here, but its such a basic set of principles for mountain bikes i needed to RTy and explain them. Braking-behaviour needs to account for these principles, as mentioned, to get the most from your brakes.

Hope this is remotely useful. cheers.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

some things you say make sense which I do any way, I choose a front tire that has great cornering grip but set the back tire up for braking, its the way I ride, one trail I ride if you were to touch the front brake you are a goner


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

bxxer rider said:


> i am a good communitce when it some to meeting me in person.


I doubt that. From my own experience with my vision problem, I have seen in your case that you seem to also work off typing how you think something sounds when spoken, and at that, you appear to be pronouncing things wrong, despite the right spelling being the easier and most clearly defined of the two.

Just remember that you can't resign yourself to not having a high profile job simply because you gave up and resigned yourself to being a shadow in the world due to the inability to communicate. Hell, Tony Iommi has only like two fingers on one hand, the reason he plays lefty and made his unique bottom-heavy doom sound.


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

bxxer rider said:


> some things you say make sense which I do any way, I choose a front tire that has great cornering grip but set the back tire up for braking, its the way I ride, one trail I ride if you were to touch the front brake you are a goner


 I totally get that... for sure, i know what you mean, but if your tire was bigger on the front, then when you brake with it, it has a larger area in contact with the ground so less chance of slipping because of increased traction. The front tire is the one that changes your direction so needs to have a larger contact area than the rear if not the same. Its to important to 'go skinny' on. Unless your back is too!

I think what this has taught you is....don't ask for opinions on MTBR!! ha ha! It can be a nightmare, especially when most users decide to turn it into a Spelling Bee!!!

(It is a bit of a nightmare reading posts with bad spelling / grammar mind, make sit really hard to understand)


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

I think that you may not be taking accent into account, as I believe you are American from what I have seen. we (British and American) pronounce things differently there for spelling differently.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

yeah do not ask opinions on here to many brand loyal or people set in their ways. kind of like me about the tires set up. 
also if you run a lower pressure on the front you get better braking, but if too low braking is hindered or get pinch flats all the time. so if you find the point between too little air or too much then you can run a smaller tire with the same braking ability.


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## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

Think of the tyre thing this way - if you lose your rear wheel it's recoverable, thats a fairly easy and essential skill to learn if you are riding mountain bikes of any form. Losing your front wheel on the otherhand is usual fatal unless you are very good. Thats why you have bigger tyres at the front and not the other way round.

Also if you take braking in a car as has been mentioned, they are set up so the front brakes exert the majority of the braking force. Before ABS people generally managed to slow their cars down without too many issues. Using the handbrake which works the rear brakes only generally results in a much less uncontrolled situation (I know there are issues of modulation but the physoscs is sound).

I know you've got issues with dyslexia but shouldn't you be in school? I'm not having a go, but you don't need to add to the burden by skiving off.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

bxxer rider said:


> I think that you may not be taking accent into account, as I believe you are American from what I have seen. we (British and American) pronounce things differently there for spelling differently.


Actually, you're half right. I am British and American. I hold both nationalities and I'm from England. Care to find other reasons why I'm wrong when I'm trying to give you more correct, experienced advice.

You're only getting **** from people on this forum because it's probably more tough love than anything. People think they can get it through your head to push yourself further and not accept your inability to communicate properly. You won't be able to support yourself as an adult, and don't like on applications because in the EU, you lie, no matter what the disability is, you're gone. At least in the US, they have protections against that kind of stuff. You're going to get into trouble, everyone here can see that, and it's definitely not too late for you to work out your problems.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay the reason front braking is more powerful is because the way momentum works is to basically push every thing forward pushing all the weight over the front tire when then provides more grip where as back braking the weight goes forward taking away the grip but however as I do if you time the rear wheel braking right you can still have same amount of braking as the front, a time to brake is like pumping the track but for slowing down you brake just after where the pump would be and this provides loads of grip on the back tire being able to slow you down same could be done with the front but it could easily put of balance and if you are worried about over braking on the back have practice on slick tires or in conditions you don't have grip any way then work out how much power you need from the fingers to get a specific amount of braking power to be on the edge of skidding. this works well for me, on the main trail I ride, I only lock up twice on purpose to force the tire round.

and I'm not in school at the moment as they have a collage open day where hole of yr11 goes to the collage next door and there is not way in hell I'm going there so they just told me to stay at home. so that's why I am on here


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## cdburch (Apr 25, 2007)

why did you ask for advice from the many older and more experience riders on here if you were just going to ignore anything that didn't sync with what you already thought? you should have asked everyone for validation instead...


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

that's basically what i did, I tried to ask for people to look over then spot any possible problems expect, forks frame, but if there is another shock out there with same configuration then i would really like to know.


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## Andrewpalooza (Dec 7, 2004)

bxxer rider said:


> what year was your patriot as the patriot evolved over the years drematicly. it was the origanl orange DH race bike then it got replced by the 22 serease. my bike has 5.9 rear travel with a 50mm stroke it is exacerly 5"
> 
> in fact give me all the info you have on your year and modal of patriot.
> 
> mine is an orange patriot lt 5.9" rear travel. its 2002 boxxers giving 64 degree angle. it is a DH frame that is what the 2002 patriot lt was made for


I have a 2003 frame, size small. Like I said before it has 6.9" of rear wheel travel via the custom sized Vanilla RC shock, less with anything else. I was curious about the frame because I got it second-hand, but I had a DT Swiss rep look it over for me. It looked at the Serial number and computed the leverage ratio and travel. His Patriot was set up as a 28 lb. all-mountain bike with an air shock and 140mm fork. I believe it was a 2004 or 05.

In any case bro, you aren't going to be riding the same level of bike as a modern DH bike, especially with 5.9" rear travel. The Patriot is a more fun bike with a lighter build, it really takes to aggressive singletrack. It can hold its own on a DH course, but you will be faster on the real deal...


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

if i am as fast as I am on my rig then how fast would i be on a "proper" DH bike


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay sorry if you sore it as an attack on you but it was only a suggestion. 

and I'm slightly confused by your second point, I'm not sure what it is trying to say.


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

Why are people stressing the demo? I am convinced that it is nothing more than brand loyalty to specialized. Perhaps I'm wrong. I would rather but a bike made by a smaller company that is more dedicated to product quality. 

*caugh* transition blindside *caugh*


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

lol your not brand loyal at all "*caugh* transition blindside *caugh*" (jokes)

any how I have a feeling, just because Sam has gone to demo every one wants one! talk about glory hunting!

ever hear about the v-10 phenomenon (might be right spelling not sure) santa cruz does well 3 suddenly appear locally brand new ones with syndicate colours


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

Have you considered deployable wings?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

deployable wings??????? what the **** has this got to do with bikes??? (no offence)


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

bxxer rider said:


> deployable wings??????? what the **** has this got to do with bikes??? (no offence)


You missed something.


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

the V-10 just seems like SO muck bike. i would never buy it. especially since i only weigh like 130 lbs. I would be more content to DH race a lighter 6" or 7" bike. 

And i dont have enough money to be brand loyal. but i can be brand discriminatory by never buying a specialized... ever... or a crack-n-fail


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

care to fill me in?


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

specialized don't seem to being much right apparently the 09 demo is not even available in the UK!!!!! and the big hit is sooo ugly!!

exactly my patriot is a light 6" DH bike as i am light me self I don't want to be lugging round a dead weight.


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## damion (Jun 27, 2003)

*Here we go again.*



bxxer rider said:


> okay the reason front braking is more powerful is because the way momentum works is to basically push every thing forward pushing all the weight over the front tire when then provides more grip where as back braking the weight goes forward taking away the grip but however as I do if you time the rear wheel braking right you can still have same amount of braking as the front, a time to brake is like pumping the track but for slowing down you brake just after where the pump would be and this provides loads of grip on the back tire being able to slow you down same could be done with the front but it could easily put of balance and if you are worried about over braking on the back have practice on slick tires or in conditions you don't have grip any way then work out how much power you need from the fingers to get a specific amount of braking power to be on the edge of skidding. this works well for me, on the main trail I ride, I only lock up twice on purpose to force the tire round.
> 
> and I'm not in school at the moment as they have a collage open day where hole of yr11 goes to the collage next door and there is not way in hell I'm going there so they just told me to stay at home. so that's why I am on here


Look, you REALLY need to communicate better. This is one tough thread to follow. Using the above quote as an example, you used 2 periods. (.) I honestly have no idea what you said.

The others are not trying to be mean or harsh. They are realistic, and very right.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

it is explaining my braking technique that works for me. that's about it.


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

i know what you mean about the deadweight. I am most content on a hardtail. i have never found a trail that i thought my HT could not handle. or that i didnt think i could handle on my hardtail. actually i rarely find places that i would rather have suspension.


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## rabidweasel999 (Oct 22, 2006)

bxxer rider said:


> it is explaining my braking technique that works for me. that's about it.


Seriously, punctuation is your friend. ^^^ That used decent punctuation and it's clear as a bell, but the paragraph quoted above on braking was near impossible to read.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

sorry, but all my years of spelling help no one has explained punctuation. so don't really know where to put it. if any one can be bothered to fill out the punctuation then I would be grateful if not I dunno.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

hats off to you, I can't ride a HT DH I just cannot after getting so used to my patriot.


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## Hirvi (Oct 8, 2007)

No one explained punctuation to you? Like you just started school a little late and haven't finished 1st grade yet? I don't speak english as my native, and it's great practise to read all this trying to figure out what you're tryin to say..  

And really, if you are going to start racing you REALLY need to change your impressive braking technique if you're going to keep up.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

the thing is I am fast and i know that, I can keep up with people who know trails well even if I am ridding then for the first time, second time I take the lead and there miles behind.


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## Madman133 (Apr 25, 2006)

bxxer rider said:


> the thing is I am fast and i know that, I can keep up with people who know trails well even if I am ridding then for the first time, second time I take the lead and there miles behind.


Wow someones a little cocky. Why don't you just go onto the world cup circuit? Apparently you are the best and can beat everyone...


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## C S (Sep 26, 2007)

bxxer rider said:


> the thing is I am fast and i know that, I can keep up with people who know trails well even if I am ridding then for the first time, second time I take the lead and there miles behind.


Noob tip: Just because someone knows a trail well doesn't mean they are fast :nono:

If you don't learn to use your brakes properly, you are gonna have a hard time in a DH race.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

not like that, I know I am fast that was only making a point.

to C S: what if I ride in a completely revolutionary way and is in fact faster, we will see when I race this summer.


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## Brian_Pal (Jan 14, 2007)

After imagining a braking situation, this is how I understand it to work. 

while just riding down the trail, the instant you hit the brakes (t=0), braking power is likely going to be similar from either wheel, because the max force is just due to the static friction coefficient and the normal force to the surface (by hanging way over the back wheel, you could make the back tire brake better in this case).

However, the instant that you start accelerating (slowing down), at t>0, there will be a force from you on your bike (f=m*a) equal to the force from the bike on you that is causing you to accelerate. The line of action of this force will be at your body's center of mass. For simplicity, lets just say 3 ft above your bottom bracket. Now, lets take a moment about the bottom bracket. For the system to be in equilibrium the sum of the moments must be equal to zero. The force from the acceleration of your body's mass will create a clockwise moment about the bottom bracket, and the normal force from the ground on the back wheel will also create a clockwise moment. Furthermore, the friction force on the back wheel AND the front wheel will both create clockwise moments about the bottom bracket. This means that the normal force on the front wheel from the ground has to create a counterclockwise moment that equals the sum of all the other clockwise moments. This means that the normal force will be very large, and since max friction force is just normal force times the friction coefficient, the max friction force from the front tire will be very great. Since this normal force will increase when there is more braking force/acceleration of your body, it creates a feedback loop where increasing braking causes more normal force which causes more braking power which causes more normal force.. you should see where this is going. 

Point is, the max friction force from the front tire in a braking situation IS greater than that from the back tire, except in some weird situation where you can try to use pumping against terrain to cause a huge normal force on the back tire. However, you will not always have this terrain available so it is probably wise to just learn how to use the front brake properly. 

Sorry if the terminology is too technical.. if you don't understand it just look up the basics of statics in wikipedia, its a pretty fascinating and intuitive subject.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

lol I think i followed it, you just proving that front tire can provide more braking power then the back. its just being light having m4's and being on the very steep trail i am naturally afraid to use front brake, I have not crashed on these trails yet and I am not planning to. but in other circumstances then I would use the front brake, when appropriate.


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

no brakes is faster. just hold your line


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

yep no brakes is faster....for a short while to you hit one of many tree's? but yeah least amount of braking as possible is fast but some times its the line that's faster.


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## philb3131 (Nov 18, 2008)

bxxer rider
i am showing to ask you the MTBR knolage base is whether i would be making a BIG mistake.
thanks for all feed back[/QUOTE said:


> Bro, sorry I dont have any info for you I but I just couldnt let this pass......Could you have given the word "knowledge" any bigger of a beat down than that? Im not one of those spelling dorks but damn, Im not sure the english language can get up from that shot.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

okay we have covered my spelling, and I believe it has been sorted....with the FF3 spell checker activated. sorry if a offended you.


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## philb3131 (Nov 18, 2008)

bxxer rider said:


> okay we have covered my spelling, and I believe it has been sorted....with the FF3 spell checker activated. sorry if a offended you.


Nah youre good. Honestly I didnt even see the other comments. Sorry homie but sometimes you got to take a little for things like that. You know how it is when you mess up in front of your boys. Dont sweat it :thumbsup:


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

thanks lol, no suggestions about the set up then? lol it doesn't seem like any one else has mentioned it much more spelling


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

bxxer rider said:


> okay we have covered my spelling, and I believe it has been sorted....with the FF3 spell checker activated. sorry if a offended you.


This thread delivers.

I think my favorite part is "sorry if a offended you."

You should try reading your posts after you type them. I bet it would help a lot. I'm not the type to get pissed off at bad grammar or spelling here and there, but your writing isn't really legible and needs work.


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## philb3131 (Nov 18, 2008)

William42 said:


> This thread delivers.
> 
> I think my favorite part is "sorry if a offended you."
> 
> You should try reading your posts after you type them. I bet it would help a lot. I'm not the type to get pissed off at bad grammar or spelling here and there, but your writing isn't really legible and needs work.


Didnt even see that!! Nice call bro.

For the record bxxer, A have offended no one!


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

opps I didn't see that my self like william42 says I have got to read them before i submit


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## philb3131 (Nov 18, 2008)

bxxer rider said:


> opps I didn't see that my self like william42 says I have got to read them before i submit


Here, in the future refer to this for proper use of the English language. She is one of our best!!!


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

lol okay thanks


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

I think you would have a lot more fun if you just built a fun bike. I dont think spending all this time on deciding how to make it stronger is worth it. and maybe all the strongest parts wont work as well together or be the best feeling parts. The way i work it is that i just ride and when something breaks i just replace it with a stronger better part. and if something doesnt and i am happy with they way it functions then i leave it alone. I think its possible to think a bike to death. if you think about it too much then the real accomplishment will be getting it built instead of all the other things you can do with it. I never stop building my bikes. it is always an ongoing endeavor.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

well that's basically what I have done, seen where things are not working and looking to replace.


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

on that note... just broke the brake mounts on my frame. rendering it unusable:madman:


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

ouch how did you mange that?


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

snapped the brake mount while doing an abubaca on a curb. i an glad it didnt happen while i was tail taping the quarter pipes. that would have hurt a lot more. I need a frame. badly. and cheaply.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

what was the old one? and can i suggest a 224....not cheap but wont let you down


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## Sars11.8 (Apr 6, 2008)

I dont have much money at all. i am in college and need to buy a car. im looking into getting like a blemished frame that is still structurally sound. i called several places already and it may be possible to get a blk mrkt riot at a discount. my old frame was an ironhorse yakuza bakuto. i would like something almost like it again but i would go for a more dj geared bike as well.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

sounds like yu wont be riding for a while, feel sorry for you


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