# On Passing



## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Last weekend I was ascending a one-way climbing trail and had to pull off quite a few times during my ride to let e-bikers get past me. There were a whole lot more e-bikers on the trail than I've ever seen in the past and it was getting annoying to stop so much. I heard similar comments from other riders that day.

Here's another detail about this trail and the whole network on that mountain - *E-bikes are prohibited there*. One guy that I talked to related that he was climbing that trail a while back and two e-bikers came flying down the one-way climbing trail and ran him off into the trees. I realize that's an isolated incident.

What will be the outcome here? Will this get so bad that the rules start to become enforced by rangers and tickets issued? Should I and other riders have to keep stopping to let e-bikers pass? Should I just keep to my climb and let them deal with it since, you know, they aren't really allowed there?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Personally I would not yield to ebikes on any trail that prohibits them.
=sParty


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Me personally, when I’m coming up to another rider, I drop to eco and if the rider lets me pass then great. If not, then I have to wait or hope for a place that is safe to pass. 


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Is there not enough room anywhere on the climb to ride off to the side to let people by without stopping yourself? 

I try to not hold up anyone regardless of what bike they are on, just as I’ll never drive in the fast lane if someone is behind me no matter what speed I’m going.


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

If they choose to ignore the restrictions, that is on them. Blocking someone from passing is a dick move regardless if the ebikes are allowed or not. Ride bike, have fun, be decent.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

AEyogi said:


> If they choose to ignore the restrictions, that is on them. Blocking someone from passing is a dick move regardless if the ebikes are allowed or not. Ride bike, have fun, be decent.


it's also a dick move to force slower riders to let you pass. the slower rider ahead is the one with the ROW, and is allowed to choose where to permit other riders to pass. the slower rider is never obligated to jump into the bushes (or into a dangerous situation) to allow faster riders to pass. this is an etiquette problem that's easily made worse by ebikers who lack manners.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

"Hey, when it's convenient can I pass" generally works well.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Just let them pass and go on with your ride. Why do people get so offended when they are passed...You're not in a race.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Bacon Fat said:


> Just let them pass and go on with your ride. Why do people get so offended when they are passed...You're not in a race.


Kind of the point of not being an ass about passing, too.....


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Regardless of engine or not, keep riding until theres an area where you pull over without stopping. 

Not one should expect someone else to stop so they can carry on.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Bacon Fat said:


> Just let them pass and go on with your ride. Why do people get so offended when they are passed...You're not in a race.


It's not being offended, it's having to actually stop your ride. When everyone is on a human powered bike there is very little passing because there are very few people capable of climbing at 10+ mph. Now any shmuck with a couple extra grand can do it. It's the same issue I bring up in other threads about trail climbing. It used to not matter because very few people were capable of climbing our local flow trails. They aren't classified as one-way because almost no one rode up them. But now all the ebikers have decided that's the thing to do so every weekend you're grabbing brakes so that someone can let a motor carry them up a trail.

Also this is happening on trails closed to ebikes. Both in the OP's post, and also my local trails.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Dogbrain said:


> It's not being offended, it's having to actually stop your ride. When everyone is on a human powered bike there is very little passing because there are very few people capable of climbing at 10+ mph. Now any shmuck with a couple extra grand can do it. It's the same issue I bring up in other threads about trail climbing. It used to not matter because very few people were capable of climbing our local flow trails. They aren't classified as one-way because almost no one rode up them. But not all the ebikers have decided that's the thing to do so every weekend you're grabbing brakes so that someone can let a motor carry them up a trail.
> 
> Also this is happening on trails closed to ebikes. Both in the OP's post, and also my local trails.


Oh no, you had to stop and be courteous to a faster rider. Do you ***** about having to stop to let a pro by?

People just need to be courteous and friendly to each other and not get all worked up about getting passed or having to wait to pass.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Bacon Fat said:


> Oh no, you had to stop and be courteous to a faster rider. Do you *** about having to stop to let a pro by?


The last pro that passed me, asked if I could move over when it was convenient.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Bacon Fat said:


> Oh no, you had to stop and be courteous to a faster rider. Do you *** about having to stop to let a pro by?


No I had to stop and let many ebikers by. One pro wouldn't matter. 10 ebikers is a different experience. Also I reject the premise that they are faster. The bike is faster, but they are not.


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

Curveball said:


> Last weekend I was ascending a one-way climbing trail and had to pull off quite a few times during my ride to let e-bikers get past me. There were a whole lot more e-bikers on the trail than I've ever seen in the past and it was getting annoying to stop so much. I heard similar comments from other riders that day.
> 
> Here's another detail about this trail and the whole network on that mountain - *E-bikes are prohibited there*. One guy that I talked to related that he was climbing that trail a while back and two e-bikers came flying down the one-way climbing trail and ran him off into the trees. I realize that's an isolated incident.
> 
> What will be the outcome here? Will this get so bad that the rules start to become enforced by rangers and tickets issued? Should I and other riders have to keep stopping to let e-bikers pass? Should I just keep to my climb and let them deal with it since, you know, they aren't really allowed there?


Would you complain or feel any feel any different if someone on a regular bike was trying to pass you on a hill? Or would it be any different if 2 regular bikes were coming down a 1-way hill?


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

blammo585 said:


> Would you complain or feel any feel any different if someone on a regular bike was trying to pass you on a hill? Or would it be any different if 2 regular bikes were coming down a 1-way hill?


The one-way issue is separate, but with the ebike passing it's all about frequency. There are very few people capable of riding crazy fast uphill so it will be a rare occurrence.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

dysfunction said:


> The last pro that passed me, asked if I could move over when it was convenient.


And that is they way all riders should deal with each other.



Dogbrain said:


> No I had to stop and let many ebikers by. One pro wouldn't matter. 10 ebikers is a different experience. Also I reject the premise that they are faster. The bike is faster, but they are not.


Many rider went by, oh my. are you ok? Sounds traumatic.

"You're not faster, only your bike is" Lol 
Don't tie your self worth to what other people are riding.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

I usually say, “if you want to pass let me know.” They usually say when it opens up and space. Most people aren’t out there to run you off the trail.


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## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

Not ebike passing but I was on long downhill section in 24 hr race (was quite proud of my pace) and rider behind yelled "I'm expert rider get out of my way." I quickly obliged in a narrow off camber section and rode up the high side and while doing so dislodge a rotten log that rolled in trail as I watched him endo on log, roll down hill and start cussing. Rest of my lap ahead of him felt even better.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

CLDSDL43 said:


> Not ebike passing but I was on long downhill section in 24 hr race (was quite proud of my pace) and rider behind yelled "I'm expert rider get out of my way." I quickly obliged in a narrow off camber section and rode up the high side and while doing so dislodge a rotten log that rolled in trail as I watched him endo on log, roll down hill and start cussing. Rest of my lap ahead of him felt even better.


Wasn't as expert as he thought.


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## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Bacon Fat said:


> Many rider went by, oh my. are you ok? Sounds traumatic.
> 
> "You're not faster, only your bike is" Lol
> Don't tie your self worth to what other people are riding.


Oh yeah I'm fine. My current solution is just to move to the tech. None of the ebikers can ride it!


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## Joshhuber2 (May 2, 2021)

These posts are fun. Really gets peoples juices flowing.


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## Ripnjim (Apr 23, 2015)

Climbing single track and having to stop for a few ebikes is not a big deal. Climbing single track and getting passed by 30 ebikes would suck. The original question of this thread is valid and ignored in all of these discussions. Its always "You had to stop a couples of times, big deal". When 80% of the trail users are on ebikes what is climbing going to look like for people on regular bikes?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

blammo585 said:


> Would you complain or feel any feel any different if someone on a regular bike was trying to pass you on a hill? Or would it be any different if 2 regular bikes were coming down a 1-way hill?


Who says I was complaining? The facts are that there are a good many e-bikes climbing a _*trail on which they are prohibited*_ and it's creating a conflict with the pedaling riders there. When the pedaling riders have to constantly move over for e-bikes, it creates friction.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Bacon Fat said:


> And that is they way all riders should deal with each other.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So then, should all the pedal bikers give up on this trail system so that the masses of e-bikers can ride up it without delay?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Curveball said:


> So then, should all the pedal bikers give up on this trail system so that the masses of e-bikers can ride up it without delay?


Perhaps all bikes should just lose access. That would be more fair.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

FortOrdMTB said:


> I usually say, “if you want to pass let me know.” They usually say when it opens up and space. Most people aren’t out there to run you off the trail.


This is more than just my one-time experience. This is a very popular trail system, and the great numbers of pedal bikers are having to yield the uphill on a constant basis to a constant flow of e-bikers. Again, e-bikes are prohibited here. *E-BIKES ARE PROHIBITED ON THIS TRAIL!!*

So, what do think will happen when the state forest rangers show up with their ticket books because things aren't working out there? Are you going to become a state legislator and change the laws here?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ripnjim said:


> Climbing single track and having to stop for a few ebikes is not a big deal. Climbing single track and getting passed by 30 ebikes would suck. The original question of this thread is valid and ignored in all of these discussions. Its always "You had to stop a couples of times, big deal". When 80% of the trail users are on ebikes what is climbing going to look like for people on regular bikes?


Yes! This exactly what I was getting at.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Silentfoe said:


> Well this one's going to get shut down and chances are, the ebike moderator will bad mouth me in my DMs again where no one can see it.
> 
> The overall point here is that this trail system is CLOSED to emtbrs. End of complaining.
> 
> ...


This is at a public state forest. I know the recreation manager there and will let him know the situation. 

I want to hear solutions from the e-bikers, besides telling me to move aside for 20 or 30 emtbs on my way up the hill. It really comes down to the fact that having such numbers of both pedal bikers and e-bikers on the same climbing trail doesn't really work out due to the general speed differential.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Curveball said:


> This is at a public state forest. I know the recreation manager there and will let him know the situation.
> 
> I want to hear solutions from the e-bikers, besides telling me to move aside for 20 or 30 emtbs on my way up the hill. It really comes down to the fact that having such numbers of both pedal bikers and e-bikers on the same climbing trail doesn't really work out due to the general speed differential.


Fair enough. Good luck.

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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

On a singletrack climb, particularly a challenging one, with no room to pass without having to actually pull off and stop, if I'm on track to clean it, e-bikers are welcome to wait. 
If I were e-biking and came up on a mountain biker working hard up a climb, I would pull off, take 5 and give them a chance to complete their effort. I would consider that proper etiquette personally.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

Treat e-bikes like we do hikers. Let them by.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

REZEN said:


> Treat e-bikes like we do hikers. Let them by.


Even on a trail that is off limits to ebikes? Nope
I’m an ebike fan, I have friends and family that own them. But, I don’t wanna see one on a trail where they are not allowed. There’s a reason for them being banned on certain trails. User conflict never ends good for anyone


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Curveball said:


> Last weekend I was ascending a one-way [HIKING] trail and had to pull off quite a few times during my [HIKE] to let [bikers] get past me. There were a whole lot more [bikers] on the trail than I've ever seen in the past and it was getting annoying to stop so much. I heard similar comments from other [HIKERS] that day.
> 
> Here's another detail about this trail and the whole network on that mountain - *[bikes] are prohibited there*. One [HIKER] that I talked to related that he was climbing that trail a while back and two [bikers] came flying down the one-way climbing trail and ran him off into the trees. I realize that's an isolated incident.
> 
> What will be the outcome here? Will this get so bad that the rules start to become enforced by rangers and tickets issued? Should I and other [HIKERS] have to keep stopping to let [bikers] pass? Should I just keep to my climb and let them deal with it since, you know, they aren't really allowed there?


Just for the purposes of a brain exercise, I replaced bike with [HIKE], and e-bike with [bike] in your post. What would you think then? That pretty much describes every day of riding for a lot of mountain bikers where there are absurd rules in their local area. 

I wonder if getting passed by e-bikers will eventually make bikers look at passing hikers with a different perspective?

The obvious answer is that you should have knifed them. (I joke!, I joke!)


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Curveball said:


> This is at a public state forest. I know the recreation manager there and will let him know the situation.
> 
> I want to hear solutions from the e-bikers, besides telling me to move aside for 20 or 30 emtbs on my way up the hill. It really comes down to the fact that having such numbers of both pedal bikers and e-bikers on the same climbing trail doesn't really work out due to the general speed differential.


20 or 30 other bikers passing me? That sounds like every time I ride a crowded trail like Apex on a weekend here in the Front Range. I have somehow survived. _shrug_


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

r-rocket said:


> Just for the purposes of a brain exercise, I replaced bike with [HIKE], and e-bike with [bike] in your post. What would you think then? That pretty much describes every day of riding for a lot of mountain bikers where there are absurd rules in their local area.
> 
> I wonder if getting passed by e-bikers will eventually make bikers look at passing hikers with a different perspective?
> 
> The obvious answer is that you should have knifed them. (I joke!, I joke!)


I don’t ride hiking trails that are closed to bikes.
How would e-bikers feel about getting constantly passed by motocross bikes?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Maybe we should just flip the script and ban pedal bikes from the trails. It’s become quite apparent that e-bikers are not interested in any solutions.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> On a singletrack climb, particularly a challenging one, with no room to pass without having to actually pull off and stop, if I'm on track to clean it, e-bikers are welcome to wait.
> If I were e-biking and came up on a mountain biker working hard up a climb, I would pull off, take 5 and give them a chance to complete their effort. I would consider that proper etiquette personally.


This is more about the whole situation instead of my particular ride. It’s not just me. 
This is becoming a problem for all the pedal bikers on these trails.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Curveball said:


> I don’t ride hiking trails that are closed to bikes.
> How would e-bikers feel about getting constantly passed by motocross bikes?


No issue. I ride my ebike in ohv areas and pull over when I hear them coming and give them a friendly wave as they pass, then go on with my ride.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

First, stop calling your bike a “pedal bike.” It’s a bike, not the abomination that’s causing the problem. Then treat the problem with the contempt it deserves.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

What ever happened to common trail courtesy?

When I am climbing on my XC bike I am climbing quite a bit faster than most of the other trail users. When I catch someone, I relax and wait for a wide spot to ask to go by, 99.9% of people let me by. Same deal when I am on my e-bike, when I catch someone I turn the motor off and wait to get by.

If I am climbing and someone catches me, I talk to them and let them know I will let them by at the next wide spot.

If someone is being an arse, I do my best to let it go and continue with my ride.


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## ejbiker93ss (8 mo ago)

LMN said:


> What ever happened to common trail courtesy?


One way you can be part of the solution is to use the best etiquette possible.



LMN said:


> I talk to them and let them know I will let them by at the next wide spot


Exactly. By talking to someone in a friendly tone, they’ll know you’re not an arse, and most likely they’ll be nice. I love the courtesy found by the riders in NWA (Bentonville area). 

But, to your question, I think the eMTB guys should certainly wait on you and not expect you to pull off for them until convenient. At the same time, if you can tell it’s someone that will be ticked off, I’d let him go by. Life is too short and biking too fun to let someone ruin our day 😀


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Curveball said:


> I don’t ride hiking trails that are closed to bikes.
> How would e-bikers feel about getting constantly passed by motocross bikes?


I take my jeep on 4x4 trails like Holy Cross City trail that also have bikers and hikers and motorcycles all on the same trail all the time. I've done the same trail on my bike. I've never had a single problem either way. And that's a trail so busy there can be traffic jams just waiting for your turn to try and cross French Creek.

It sounds more and more like you are looking for a problem instead of looking for a solution.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Bacon Fat said:


> "You're not faster, only your bike is" Lol
> Don't tie your self worth to what other people are riding.


Lol it's the e-bike that's faster, not the rider.
Stating otherwise is so delusional it would put a flat earther to shame.
There are now so many crowded places in the mountains with overweight fat, or very old e-bike riders.
It's 100% the e-bikes that made this possible for them. More and more bike restrictions coming because of that.
Heck even most young people nowadays have so little stamina, they even struggle on their e-bikes. It's embarrassing to watch.

And yes I have a emtb myself, so I know what I'm talking about.

On the trail I only let others pass when it's possible to actually do it safely. I don't care if they ride an ebike, or not.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

r-rocket said:


> I take my jeep on 4x4 trails like Holy Cross City trail that also have bikers and hikers and motorcycles all on the same trail all the time. I've done the same trail on my bike. I've never had a single problem either way. And that's a trail so busy there can be traffic jams just waiting for your turn to try and cross French Creek.
> 
> It sounds more and more like you are looking for a problem instead of looking for a solution.



What if you were riding on an mtb trail that was closed to motorcycles and constantly had to pull aside to let illegal motorcycles pass? That seems to be the scenario the op laid out.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Lol it's the e-bike that's faster, not the rider.
> Stating otherwise is so delusional it would put a flat earther to shame.
> There are now so many crowded places in the mountains with overweight fat, or very old e-bike riders.
> It's 100% the e-bikes that made this possible for them. More and more bike restrictions coming because of that.
> ...


Do you say the same about people that ride with gears and suspension?

Fat and old people riding bikes, the horror. Hikers had the same "the trails are only for me" attitude about mtb'ers. 

Good job looking down on everyone


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

Dogbrain said:


> The one-way issue is separate, but with the ebike passing it's all about frequency. There are very few people capable of riding crazy fast uphill so it will be a rare occurrence.


It depends on the rider. I don't push myself to go uphill. I put it in the lowest gear, and I take it one pedal at a time. A lot of people here could pass me uphill without a lot of effort on their part. Yet I could still come here and talk about how many times I had to move over for regular bikers.

I get it; there's much more chance getting passed by an ebiker and getting passed at a higher rate of speed. But it wouldn't bother me just because they weren't "supposed" to be there.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> What if you were riding on an mtb trail that was closed to motorcycles and constantly had to pull aside to let illegal motorcycles pass? That seems to be the scenario the op laid out.


Never ran into that situation. 
But to me it sounds like the OP is being way over dramatic that he has to spend a total of 30 seconds over the course of his 3 hour ride pulling over for faster moving riders.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I have told motos politely but directly on the trails I ride that "those are not allowed here". If the offenders are never told that, they'll think that nobody cares, so no big deal. If they're told once they will probably ignore it, but if most of the trail users who are following the rules tells them that, they will probably eventually get the idea.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

jimPacNW said:


> I have told motos politely but directly on the trails I ride that "those are not allowed here". If the offenders are never told that, they'll think that nobody cares, so no big deal. If they're told once they will probably ignore it, but if most of the trail users who are following the rules tells them that, they will probably eventually get the idea.


This is the answer you are looking for Curve. Polite but firm reminders to each and everyone that is violating trail rules.


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## RDO (Apr 26, 2016)

Bacon Fat said:


> People just need to be courteous and friendly to each other and not get all worked up about getting passed or having to wait to pass.


Whatever about the passing, I'd make that determination based on a variety of factors. If you're talking courtesy, how about keeping the e-bike off trails where they're prohibited? Go through the right channels. to make them legal. 

FWIW I own three e-bikes.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

This thread is either full of people just trolling or selfish. Both sum up today's human behavior perfectly.


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

My local is a small network of flow trails. We've got a push up which most people use. E-bikers started riding up it which was causing some problems, so the trail builders raked out a separate "ride up" and let the e-bikers ride it in. Minimal work required. Everyone is happy. Obviously with natural trails it isn't possible, but I think we'll see more of these "fast lanes" at trail centres and bike parks in the future.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

I have both mtb and emtb. I just got my emtb. When I was climbing the other day and came up on some mtb, I said good morning, and let me know when a good time to pass is. I also let them know I was on my emtb as I did not want to think they have to pull over for me. The climbe we were on is steep and tough one so I did not want them to lose momentum. I have been run off the trail on my mtb by people coming downhill, I let them know climbers have the ROW, they probably didn't konw or maybe care but if someone never tells them they may not know. 

Same with an emtb, I was on mtb last year and this guy zooms up, doesn't say anything and tries to pass me, I told him to let people know you are behind them and to wait till there is safe spot. This trail is a singletrack and cliff on one side.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Bacon Fat said:


> Do you say the same about people that ride with gears and suspension?


Show me a modern mtb component other than the electric motor that magically can bring anyone up the mountains? 

That whole argument that an motor is equal to brakes, gears, or suspension is so stupid. 🤡



uintah said:


> This thread is either full of people just trolling or selfish. Both sum up today's human behavior perfectly.


I can understand why some riders are angry. 
Some of the trails I go to ride have very narrow steep climbing sections that go on for a while. It is not possible to just make space there. I had more than just one time a yelling ebiker behind me. 

It's really annoying when someone like that is behind you, especially when they actually try to pass you by squishing you to the side. 

When I ride me ebike on those trails I always slow down and passionately wait until it's safe to pass. 

It's sad that those assholes give ebikers, or mountain bikes in general a bad reputation.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Show me a modern mtb component other than the electric motor that magically can bring anyone up the mountains?
> 
> That whole argument that an motor is equal to brakes, gears, or suspension is so stupid. 🤡


Electric motors magically bring you up the mountain... talk about a stupid arguments.

Bunch of fragile ego people that can't handle being passed on the trail.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

I think we got more than our fair share of answers. Closing thread. 


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