# Carbon Fox 40 Protector



## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

After seeing some pictures of people ripping their fork lowers open on rocks, I began thinking about this project. Finally got around to starting it. I am making carbon fiber Fox 40 protectors for my Blindside.

Started with a base layer of a heavy fiberglass and two layers of carbon fiber. Wrapped these layers around a PVC pipe I turned down to the exact OD of my 40's.










Vacuum bagged the project up and set in a paint booth to cure at 140F.










Made a quick template and this is the test fit so far. I need to open up the opening some more and bring the top down to right below the Fox 40 Sticker on top.


























They look pretty sick so far. Hope to get the final ones cut up today and then going to put an outside layer of resin and then clear coat for that shiny carbon fiber look. These are like brass knuckles for your bike. Super strong and extremely light. The final ones will be double sided taped in place to prevent movement. They have a super snug fit right now. These will help protect the lowers from rocks, scrapes, and falls. Like anything else, a hard enough fall will still damage the forks. But when paying top dollar for forks for our bikes any protection without adding weight is a big bonus in my book. I will update as the project gets farther along. Feedback please!


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Looks great, let me know if you'll make me some.


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

Looks really cool! 
I've been thinking about similar protectors for some time for my Totem, but I don't have knowledge...
Is the protector flexible enough, so you can "open" it and slide on the lowers?


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Great idea. Make them for other forks, and you have a company.

Get a patent on it before someone steals it!


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

Dude, that's flippin sweet...I wish I could do that.


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## Dalis12 (Jan 15, 2008)

very nice


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## Snarefire (Nov 17, 2009)

dude i agree with everyone else. If you make me some for a pike, ill buy them for you and do measurements. Get a patent, and get moving, seriously your talking a market no one has yet. do downtube protectors, and bottom bracket gaurds and your talking serious cash


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## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

xpipx said:


> Made a quick template and this is the test fit so far. I need to open up the opening some more and bring the top down to right below the Fox 40 Sticker on top.


Go higher than the 40 sticker and put new ones on the carbon.

Do you ship to the UK for 07 888s


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## mtnmark (Aug 4, 2008)

I'd take a set for my 40 and 36s. Seriously.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

1 suggestion: put some space between the carbon & the lowers so when you take an impact, the forces is absorbed by the carbon & not xfer'd to yhe lowers and result in a dent. Some double sided velcro should be tall enough to provide the margin for most minor impacts. 
It looks really good tho! What weight of carbon cloth did you use, and how many layers? I was thinking of using carbon/kevlar tape (6" width) in 3ply for my 07 888 project...the really light stuff.


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## nightofthefleming (Jun 14, 2009)

this kind of stuff is why I love these forums.

That's some real ingenuity, keep up the good work.


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

Mate they look sick!
Get in quick, this market has serious untaped potential!


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Let us know if you plan to make any more. Sounds like there are several of us that would line up to pay for your handy work. I think the suggestion to add a small gap for absorbtion between the guard and the lowers might add an extra margin of protection. It would be similar to the lower guards on inverted fork designs.

Anyway, cool work!


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

I appreciate all the comments so far. The cost of the materials is rather high. I'm using all aerospace grade materials (carbon, glass, and resins). I was planning on running a 3M double sided foam tape to act as a shock absorber and to hold the guard in place.It's a three ply composite made up of two outer layers of plane weave carbon fiber and one layer fiberglass. So far it seems to be holding up very well when I took a chisel to a test piece. I didn't get as far along today as I wanted to on the project due to actually having work at work haha. Go figure. It would be easy to make downtube protectors, bottom bracket guards, and a variety of other stuff. I would need to get my hands on some other types of forks on the market and make templates for them as well. I should have the final prototype done up next week and it should look pretty sick.


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## chooofoojoo (Feb 22, 2007)

Cable0guy said:


> Great idea. Make them for other forks, and you have a company.
> 
> Get a patent on it before someone steals it!


patents have been filed years ago for similar.... make as many as you can before it's granted and you get sued.


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## 4JawChuck (Dec 1, 2008)

Have you guys ever priced carbon fiber! They would be very expensive to mfg...look great BTW.

I think a fiberglass piece would be as effective and a lot cheaper to mfg, you can buy black fiberglass mat too...most people can't tell the difference. Kevlar is a natural fit for this application. Maybe even an injection molded polycarbonate would be even more durable, they make helmets and visors from it for a reason.

Needs testing to determine the best material, carbon is almost never used for impact protection...too brittle.

Don't take my comments the wrong way (not that it ever happens here ). I think your custom guards are pimp, keep up the nice work.:thumbsup:


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## pillete (Apr 30, 2006)

if the price is reasonable, count me in for a pair


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Just wondering what most people would consider reasonable for an item like this. I am not looking to get rich or market these. The materials are expensive as I've said earlier. I'd probably have to sell a large amount to pay for materials and not have the price be super high. It's a very consuming process and I don't have the manufacturing tools to mass produce these babies so the price would probably reflect that also. But I'm stoked people are interested in what I am doing.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

the stiffer it is, the better it'll spread the impact out over a larger area....


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

xpipx said:


> Just wondering what most people would consider reasonable for an item like this. I am not looking to get rich or market these. The materials are expensive as I've said earlier. I'd probably have to sell a large amount to pay for materials and not have the price be super high. It's a very consuming process and I don't have the manufacturing tools to mass produce these babies so the price would probably reflect that also. But I'm stoked people are interested in what I am doing.


There is (was?) a guy here on mtbr making dt protectors for the Session 88 for $75. I'd expect to pay about the same for fork protectors.


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## 4JawChuck (Dec 1, 2008)

davec113 said:


> There is (was?) a guy here on mtbr making dt protectors for the Session 88 for $75. I'd expect to pay about the same for fork protectors.


Haha, a yard of 0.010" thick carbon weave is more than $40...I'm thinking those protectors are much thicker than 0.010". Then there is the cost of mfg and epoxy.

How many layers on there xpipx?

Just a guess but I'm figuring somewhere north of $250 for one side!

Might want to keep your little project secret from the boss.


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## LDH (May 27, 2007)

look what i found at my favorite store, scroll down to thin wall tubes.
www.mcmaster.com/#carbon-fiber/=67du92


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

The tin wall tubing there would be nice for smaller forks but I don't see any sizes around a 2" ID for a Fox 40. This project started out with some scrap material and some free time during lunch. I consider it on the job training haha. You should pick up some of that material from McMastercarr and let us know how it works out.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

The carbon fiber tubes came out perfect for strength and weight but the material lacked that shiny look I was going for. So, I added another top coat of epoxy resin painted onto the outside. This will give great wear resistance and be very polish able. I am happy with the fit and just need a little more polishing to be completely finished. Then I will double sided foam tape her in place. 
























Should have the final product done this week. I am considering making a few others with some similar materials. To cut down on cost, I may do two layers of glass and a single top layer of carbon fiber just for the look. It will be just as light and strong but cut costs. I may also experiment with different resins and bagging techniques.

Tech: 3K Plain weave carbon fiber (2 ply), Fiberglass (1 ply)
Weight: 25 grams (ea.)
Thickness: .025"


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

Looks really really good dude.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

some new decals on top of the carbon would be sick.


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## 4JawChuck (Dec 1, 2008)

Looks great! :thumbsup:

Heres some links to some thin wall carbon weave tubing in the larger sizes...yep there is 2 inch there.

http://dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=52

http://dragonplate.com/docs/DPSpecRoundTube.pdf

BTW if you didn't use a marine style UV resistant type of epoxy for your layup I suggest you clear coat it with some UV resistant Polyurethane paint so it doesn't turn yellow.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

xpipx, 
Seeing your protectors has motivated me to get off my ass and make one for my 888.
Some input please: I was going to wrap this assembly w/ HD shipping stretch wrap for a smooth base, then carbon/kevlar and resin only the outside of both sides of the lowers...1/2 the diameter. I want the protector to cover the outter edge of the underside of the dropouts, velcro'd onto the fork after the fork/wheel is assembled. Then, vacc bagged for room temp curing, w/ a heat gun to remove air bubbles.

Do you see any flaws in this approach? Any advice? It'll be my first carbon project and don't know of the pit-falls of working w/ the stuff. TIA.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

a yard of cf might be 36 inches long but where i get it, the roll is 42 inches wide if those guards are 12x5(extra,for trimming)you get 24 pieces from a $45per yard carbon, two layers, rt and left leg ,6pr per yard + resin, that under 8 bucks material ,but there is lots of labor,but it's not impossibly expensive.Foam tape would put all impact stress on the carbon,you would have to make them so strong it becomes less of a performance product and just armor. You want the carbon to distribute hard stresses over more of the fork leg but have it still be solidly suported,so neither dents or shatters, and you'd like it to be a replacable skin that when it eventually becomes scuffed and gouged and ratty looking you peal it off and put a new one on.I love this kind of project i wish i was motivated enough to do them all the time.Right now i'm about 30-40 work hours into a set of billit dh longboard speed trucks, i highly doubt i could get anybody to buy them and make even a decent machinist wage.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

very cool


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

I found this stuff for those of us who might not want to tackle the home-made stuff. Already comes with the peel and stick on one side. Not cheap though 

http://www.dragonplate.com/ecart/categories.asp?cID=12


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## 4JawChuck (Dec 1, 2008)

I was trying to find some tube in carbon kevlar weave so you get the gold and black effect but can't seem to find any...still a cool project and fairly easy to do if you have the tube ready made. Knowing how brittle carbon is I'm thinking a thickness closer to 0.030"-0.060" might be more durable...have to test to know for sure though.

Lots of creative juices flowin in here, anyone need a towel.


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## BRMBA MONKEY! (Aug 9, 2007)

I do! I'd love to buy/make a way to protect my lovely #49 40WC!


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Paully11y: Working with composites and resins can get pretty messy. Just try to be as clean as possible. My advice would be to pick up some mold release and cover everything you don't want your project sticking too. The reason I used the pvc was to ensure I didn't get any resin on my 40's. Depending on the type of resin you are using a heat gun may not be necessary. You want to try to distribute the heat evenly and the gun will not be able to do that. You may have better luck just leaving it on a heater. Other than that, give it a try and let us know your progress.

Those carbon tubes are really expensive at around $100 dollars for a 24" of 2" ID tube you could only make one pair.

The guards are sacrificial and designed to do exactly what herbn said. The foam will not distribute the load to the 40's. I want the composite material to take all of the load. They do not have to be real thick in order to take a beating. I am going to do some more testing on a spare piece that's cured with the foam in place on a piece of pvc and slam it on some rocks. 

I was planning on putting a UV top coat on anyways, but the resin I used should not yellow.


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

Well

I want that ****

But considering new lowers are $250....... I wouldn't spend more than $100 on this and since it looks like materials along cost more than that I personally think it's a lost cause


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

xpipx said:


> The guards are sacrificial and designed to do exactly what herbn said. The foam will not distribute the load to the 40's. I want the composite material to take all of the load. They do not have to be real thick in order to take a beating. I am going to do some more testing on a spare piece that's cured with the foam in place on a piece of pvc and slam it on some rocks.


Hey xpipx, thanx for the clues on heating. Maybe I'll get one of those turkey pans and "gently" bake my setup in the oven at...the same temp you did yours (140F?). The lid should keep the fumes all contained, at least most of it. Those lowers are a spare set, but I will coat (slather it) in mold release after I've shrink wrapped it for a smooth base.

BTW, your impact test... If you're serious and willing to sacrifice your first product:
- space it out w/ the foam like you said you were going to do
- use spray-ment to tack on some carbon paper on the underside of the guards
- mount it on the PVC you use as form
- then swing away at rocks (within reason)
This way, you'll be able to see what transfers from guard to the PVC. You'll also be able to cap the ends of the PVC and fill w/ water to simulate impacts w/ more mass. It's not a lab test, but should give some insights as to how strong the carbon/glass/carbon sandwich is.


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## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

I think you have a great little business idea. Big market if you get the price/look/weight right. You have to consider that there are solutions that DIY people can do themselves, but for the right price many will go for the easy solution.

For anybody suggesting patents: Don't really think it would be worth it, even if it was possible (it isn't, patent law requires that he be able to prove that he has not revealed his invention to anybody without a disclosure agreement, or any sort of publication (this thread counts) made on it prior to filing an application. Thats all given that the idea is actually patentable. And patents, especially for something like this, are very expensive and sometimes easy to get around.

Hell, i've only been thinking about this for a couple minutes, and i've already thought of a couple ways to drastically improve it. But the smart inventor keeps his mouth shut.

Sorry to sound like a know-it-all, but i think that anybody who has an original idea needs to know this stuff.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

Iggz said:


> Well
> 
> I want that ****
> 
> But considering new lowers are $250....... I wouldn't spend more than $100 on this and since it looks like materials along cost more than that I personally think it's a lost cause


But if you can buy enough materials to DIY for 2-3 forks for that price, it'll still work out. But as a sales item, you're right on the need to keep it below...$75?


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Yes, a patent on this isn't going to be possible, UFO Plast actually sells a protector for fox 40 lowers already (not cf), and there are probably other examples of prior art.

Also, this doesn't need to be aerospace grade, it just needs to provide reasonable protection from scraping on rocks and look cool. I think this can be done for well under $100 retail.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

I build stuff like this because I love bikes. Like I said earlier, I am not out to start a business or even go after a patent. I used this opportunity to learn about composites from someone whom I work with that is very knowledgeable. I appreciate all the help he has been. Thanks Nick if you read this again! If anyone out there has the ambition to start a project like this I urge you to try it. This is not an original idea by any means...although there is really not too many products out there for the bike industry. After I get my processes down pat and the final products look good, I would consider selling some for a reasonable price (price to be determined with cost of materials). I know the products don't need to be up to aerospace standards but that is what I do on a daily basis so that is what I practice to achieve.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Pau11y: Most resins cure at room temp just fine. The chemical reaction will create some heat anyways. I would keep it out of the stove for health reasons. I just wouldn't feel good about having that in my oven and then using it to cook with.


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## BRMBA MONKEY! (Aug 9, 2007)

Could a cheap oven be made out of brick or a small clay pot and a heat-gun with a thermostat?


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

I have been looking for CF tubes on local market, with poor result.
Bringing tubes from US or UK, or even West Europe would make whole thing even more expensive.
But, what about using PCV tubes? Transparent or white (for my white Totem Solo Air)?
PVC should absorb hits better than CF and it substantially cheaper.
It will not look as good as CF and most probably be a bit more bulky.
Cutting and shaping of PVC should be pretty easy.


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## Pau11y (Oct 15, 2004)

xpipx,
Had another arc flash between the ears. How about using plastic vacuum forming to generate a form of the lowers to lay the carbon cloth on? The 2 or 3m plastic will provide the void between the lowers and carbon, and the void of the plastic can be filled w/ plaster so vacuum bagging won't deform the carbon/form combo for curing.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Just needs a little buffing and then double sided tape to hold her in place.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

looks pretty good, man.


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## wrg (Jun 2, 2009)

very freaking cool!


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## cactuscorn (Feb 5, 2004)

color me impressed!


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## Nick_M2R (Oct 18, 2008)

xpipx said:


> Just needs a little buffing and then double sided tape to hold her in place.


Without a doubt one of the slickest, most well thought out DIY projects ive seen

Well done mate:thumbsup:


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## Karve (Mar 31, 2006)

That does look awesome - im thinking that on the black lowers having that flash of carbon would look even better!


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Awesome job, patent it and sell them.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Thanks, I appreciate all the comments. I am pretty happy with how they turned out. They are far from production quality but still look sick. Going to try my luck at a bottom bracket/down tube protector next. When the weather gets nicer, I'm going to get some full bike shots of everything.


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## Demodude (Jan 27, 2007)

why a bottom bracket protector? Never in 20 years have I ever hit my BB. I don't think you would ever punch a hole in one as it's very thick there. Just wondering...


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Yeah, not too worried about damaging the bottom bracket or even the downtube. Just going to be a little scuff guard to stop rock hits chipping the paint. Not totally necessary but figured why not?


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

I dented the downtube a little on my karpiel armeggedon trying to bunny hop it onto a picnic table, up a couple inches from the bottombracket,just past the sprocket.


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

That is sweet looking stuff.

As an ME though, it wont help much

CF has such terrible puncture strength.

Abrasion, it would do well, straight on pointy rock........sorry.

It cant hurt though, MASS=STRENGTH


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

I know carbon fiber doesn't have very good puncture resistance. At the weight and thickness I was going for nothing will give great protection. Most of the damage to forks is done by sliding over rocks during falls. These were designed to be a sacrificial surface to the forks....not a cure all bullet proof layer. No matter what you put on your fork a hard enough blow or sharp enough rock will still ruin your day. I am well aware of the properties of carbon fiber.


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## bighitboy (May 16, 2004)

Dead on dude. they look pretty trick though

Boeing is learning the hard way about the thermodynamics of CF

For such light stuff, it has alot of weird quirks about it


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## jurichar (Aug 19, 2009)

i whiped up a few of these for my boxxer w/c's last year. they came out pretty good and can take a **** load of abuse. I actually wrapped the carbon around the dropouts and basically the whole fork looks c/f now. I'll take some pics and post em up. 

I also make a fiberglass/rubberized version to protect the bottom bracket. I think i like that more than i like the fork guards. the damn thing is awesome and is sweetas when sliding off rocks and occasionally comeing up short on jumps. 

I was going to make a bunch and sell them @ my lbs. but dayum it was alot of work and resin is expensive.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Jurichar, I would like to see some pics if you can post them. This was a cool project that a lot of people seemed interested in but like you said it is a lot of work and resin is expensive.


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## coldsteele (Jul 9, 2004)

Cable0guy said:


> Great idea. Make them for other forks, and you have a company.
> 
> Get a patent on it before someone steals it!


Good Idea but he kinda screwed himself posting them up. They are mow public domain.

And after reading further others have pointed out prior art....Oh well they look sick. I could have used them on my 36. a little glancing rock cost me a new set of uppers and lowers.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Not interested in patenting anything. I am not the first person to ever think of this design. I simply made something to fit my fork. I would love to make a bunch of these and distribute them around but I don't have the time and resources. Plus, they wouldn't be cheap. Not saying I couldn't be convinced to make a few sets....


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Fork lowers and downtube protector.


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## rep_1969 (Mar 25, 2004)

That look amazing. Great job man!! How many hours did this take you from start to finish?


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

Hard to say how many hours it actually took. There's a lot of wait time in the process waiting for the resin and clear coats to dry. The setup, layup, and cutting times where not very high. I'd say you can make everything up in about a weekend. I dragged mine out for about two weeks only working it a few minutes here and there when I had time. Now that I have the templates for everything it would go much faster.


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

Looks really rad 
But, I thought DT protector would cover BB area, too.


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## xpipx (Apr 3, 2009)

I'd have to make a mock up of the downtube and bottom bracket first. The downtube protector in the pic was just some extra material I had made up with a different kind of resin I was trying out. I like the way it came out so decided to through it on there.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

those fox decals look way out of place. too small.


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## BRMBA MONKEY! (Aug 9, 2007)

xpipx, I am really digging the work you've done so far. I think you're really onto something by making light weight scrape guards to help protect the most likely of areas to be contacted in dh or even shuttling. Now all I need to know is where to send the cash?


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## brianbear (Feb 5, 2010)

Here is one supplier of materials and equipment; http://www.acp-composites.com/home.php?cat=251

I would use the carbon/kevlar cloth in the following layup, from the inside out; 1 layer 6oz carbon, 2 layers 12oz glass, 2 layers 5.4oz carbon/kevlar, 2 layers .54oz, ( that's correct .54oz) glass cloth, mylar sniny side in, wrap mylar in paper towel to spread vacuum pressure evenly, vac bag.

the light glass cloth becomes almost invisible but gives a real depth to the surface finish
the mylar shiny side in will give the surface a perfect shine and smooth out impefections in the flatness of the layup. 
you can put one layer of 6oz carbon just under the .54 glass cloth for that perfect carbon look
use the toughest heat cured resin you can afford


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

carbon fork protectors

http://www.saundersextremesports.co.uk/product.php?id=1263673338&parent=112


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## iridemtb (Mar 25, 2008)

Look closer. Carbon look, made of plastic... Still cool though. I don't know why.


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## Edemption42 (Aug 10, 2009)

For those thinking about using "DragonPlate" DO NOT, I made the mistake and thought i could bend the plating around my down tube and around my lowers...it cracked and never stayed on!!!!

Great great idea though, just don't try and short cut it!!!!!!


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## The Orange Prophet (Oct 4, 2006)

4 skins anyone? not carbon fibre though...

http://dirt.mpora.com/news/steve-saunders-fork-protectors.html


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

the foreskins look great, and are.. if not low priced, at least its not priced to sell by captain insano.


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## nonamebob (May 28, 2009)

*old is new again*

I made guards for White Bros forks back in 96-98, Berg was also making guards for MTB, I made fenders, down tube guards, brake covers anything and everything that I could think of back then. It was hot for a little bit than as everything, went away.

Ray at CTS was selling my fender bits back around 2000-2003, It always becomes a whores market everybody jumps in, then over to China or someother low buck place to make stuff.

Keep it up though, it feels good to build than buy I say,


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