# Bench Cutting Tool?



## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

What is the best tool you have found for bench cutting? I have been using a pulaski, but have used an adze hoe before and found that to work better. Unfortunately, I don't own an adze hoe. 

I want to see what others are using before I buy a tool. Speaking of buying, is there a brand or place to get the tool that is better then another?


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

Prohoe works for me. I had an adze with a sharp blade that I liked to use for chopping roots until the head loosened up on the handle.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Depends on what you're hacking through. If you got rocky soil with alot of roots pulaski and spade shovel, if you have loamy soil you're better off with some kind of ho and flat head shovel. Whatever or all inbetween... 
Like anything, different tools for the job at hand.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

One of these. They can be found here: Rogue Hoes- Trailbuilding Tools


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

^Exhibit A!


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

You'll hear lots of talk about Rogue Hoes. They are work checking out. It's likely your local bike club has one or two. You can't find them in average hardware stores yet. Which one is the right one for you is going to be a matter of personal choice. It's the curved edge on the blade that makes them so useful. You can take anywhere from about a half inch off the surface to a 4" or 5" bite for moving a lot of material. I prefer a shorter curved handle for benching.

Rogue Hoe: The Best Hoes for Farm and Garden

If you have to shop in your local big box hardware and can't get access to a Rogue, an Italian or Grape hoe has a similar size, shape and back-curve to a Rogue. Probably no more than $30. It has a flat edge though, don't go too wide on the blade. I'd suggest 5" wide maximum. I took an angle grinder to one once and made a pretty good copy of a Rogue by curving the blade edge.

That all being said, what I use for bench cutting?
Pulaski
Mcleod
Rogue 60A
Pick Mattock
Axe Mattock
Italian Hoe
Concrete hoe (anyone who hasn't tried this one, give it a shot)
Dandelion rake with the tines cut off.
Long handled round mouth shovel
Old dull axe
Heel of my boot
Erik's bike seat (Don't tell Erik, he thinks it's just dried dirt from riding)


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks for the great suggestions guys. Looks like Rogue makes several models that will meet my needs. I like the looks of the 70HR54. I always use a McLeod to rake the surface clear of any marks left by the Pulaski and it looks like this would enable me to just carry one tool. 

On the other hand, the 70H would be lighter which would enable me to work the loamy soil we have better. Of course I will always need to carry the Pulaski to cut various roots.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Trail Ninja said:


> Heel of my boot


aka the Scuffinator, only slightly less efficient than an excavator.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

DavidR1 said:


> Thanks for the great suggestions guys. Looks like Rogue makes several models that will meet my needs. I like the looks of the 70HR54. I always use a McLeod to rake the surface clear of any marks left by the Pulaski and it looks like this would enable me to just carry one tool.
> 
> On the other hand, the 70H would be lighter which would enable me to work the loamy soil we have better. Of course I will always need to carry the Pulaski to cut various roots.


I've used pulaski's and McLeods in the past. I was blown away at how much easier is was to bench cut with the 70HR54. You can loosen lot of soil with the tines and then pull it off the trail with the hoe end. It also cut though some decent roots with the hoe end.
Get one, you won't be disappointed.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Pick Mattock / Pulaski
Rogue Hoe
McLeod

In order from hard compacted rocky soil to soft soil. Most times loosen with a pick, drag with a McLeod, sometimes shovel into a wheelbarrow if the dirt is needed at another location.

The new Rogue 70Hr is suh weet!


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I haven't seen one and maybe the pic changes dimensions, but to get good leverage cutting a bench requires a longer blade to handle ratio IMO. That tool looks like it would cut well, but not far and then stick. It would be hard to fashion a flat bench. I can see that side to side movement of the handle would loosen it pretty fast, but not as fast as letting the blade of a pick do the rough work, followed by trail rake and shovel. I find the best bench is cut in the smallest number of swings, just like a berm. The narrower the blade face, the less chance of it stopping part way through a cut and therefore causing "chunks" when you try to make the next cut.

The Rogue would, however pack the outslope tread very well, being quite solid (heavy), having a ? smaller surface area than a trail rake and also because of the long handle. Guess what I am saying is it looks like it would work better from above than from an angle? It would also nicely IMBA finish the inslope edge of a benched trail where you could cut in a more downward action to take off sharp edges with ease and less chance of hacking your leg off.

Disclaimer - I'm a mattock fan


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Don't give Newbs long handled rogue hoes... they cut too deep and too fast for them and end up with funky tread (i.e. too fast for a boss working the line to see whats been done). The shorter handled tools and lecturing about never going above shoulder height with the tool helps mitigate this substantially.

loves me my Sarah Palin!


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

+1 for Rogue hoes. I prefer not to have a rake on the end though. I also prefer a curved handle.

I must admit, the Italian hoe does sound promising. :ihih:


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Sweco but it's outside our budget. So DW SK650....only a little OT....


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I like a cutter mattock, followed by a rock rake. I may have to give the rogue hoe a try, although I could always cut down the head on one of our Mcleods to simulate it.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

I've tried a few different tools and still prefer the Hazel Adze Hoe.
Second to that would be the Prohoe Rogue with the 40" curved handle.
Forestry Suppliers carries a great selection of trail tools.
Forestry Suppliers, Inc. 800-647-5368


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## gomer hardtale (Jul 2, 2008)

love the rogue hoe, and a 5# mattock.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

I like to cut tread with a Rogue Hoe.

I find that everyone tends to be a bit optimistic about the depth of their cut. Especially as the day wears on.

I try to have a McLeod available for testing outslope. Set it on the new tread, step 5 yards or more up or down the trail. If the top of the handle is outside the outside edge of the McLeod, the outslope is too steep.

There are probably a lot of other ways to check the bench, the point is unless it's checked workers tend to get lazy.

Walt


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

+1 Rogue hoe 60A. It's got enough weight to help you get through the gnarlier roots and is pretty much the most coveted trail tool for our crews!


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## Woodman (Mar 12, 2006)

Fattirewilly said:


> Sweco but it's outside our budget. So DW SK650....only a little OT....


TD would be happy to rally up to your neck of wood and cut you some bench with a Sweco


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## singlesprocket (Jun 9, 2004)

forgot about those, thanks for reminding me. just ordered one :thumbsup:



jmitchell13 said:


> One of these. They can be found here: Rogue Hoes- Trailbuilding Tools


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

singlesprocket said:


> forgot about those, thanks for reminding me. just ordered one :thumbsup:


Maybe I can come up and give it a try if you get it before I head back to the west coast?


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## singlesprocket (Jun 9, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> Maybe I can come up and give it a try if you get it before I head back to the west coast?


no problem, i got the perfect spot to test it. nasty clay and such, just pm me.


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Woodman said:


> TD would be happy to rally up to your neck of wood and cut you some bench with a Sweco


Woody, You're certainly on the list. We have 620 acre county park with 1,600 feet of elevation from bottom to top. A mountain side. I know our DW is limited in that environment and I keep telling Parks they need a grant or $150k-$300k. They've spent that much on a parking lot but have not spent it (yet?) on the trails.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

singlesprocket said:


> no problem, i got the perfect spot to test it. nasty clay and such, just pm me.


I know the stuff. I'm in Port Colborne now. Went out with the Short Hills Cycle Club to help them with the trails for the Canal Days race earlier this year. 30 years on the west coast has spoiled me. Those guys have to work damned hard for their trails. This whole area is either clay, solid rock or toxic waste.

When I get my schedule figured out, I'll let you know.


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## diggingtrail (Dec 12, 2009)

*Fanno Forester Hoe*

Haven't seen this one mentioned yet. Fanno Hoe

Our club is up to 8 of them now b/c everybody likes them, and they are the first to go when choosing tools. The blade is actually angled back towards your hands, and shapes a nearly perfect backcut angle on the first shot. The head is totally flat as well, so you can tamp the new tread without another tool at hand. The head is strong and resists dents and bending really well considering it's weight. This paired with a pick mattock in my opinion is the ultimate bench cut tool for north-east trail building.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

slocaus said:


> The new Rogue 70Hr is suh weet!





PUBCRAWL said:


> Second to that would be the Prohoe Rogue with the 40" curved handle.


These two tools, plus a couple shovels, and four of us, moved a little dirt this morning. :thumbsup:









We bench cut this in a couple hours.

Serious erosion problem due to this being an old converted road turned trail. Steep side hill and it erodes very badly.


















Much steeper than it looks, 100% or more slope.

It is very narrow, no room to reroute the trail properly. With modern trail design, there would never be a trail here. This is putting band-aids on bullet holes, we know, but State Parks wants to keep it alive, so we do. Rogue hoes really helped!


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

slocaus said:


> These two tools, plus a couple shovels, and four of us, moved a little dirt this morning. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A little confused. 100% to me = 90 degrees - vertical.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

Ridnparadise said:


> A little confused. 100% to me = 90 degrees - vertical.


It is a little counter-intuitive, but the slope would be around 45 degrees.

Rise / Run = Slope %

So if you have a 10 foot vertical drop over the course of 10 feet, the slope would be 100%.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Woops. Time to go back to degrees. Double everything I've ever said, except how smart I am


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Ridnparadise said:


> A little confused. 100% to me = 90 degrees - vertical.


You are using the wrong clinometer.  Mine shows 100% slopes to be 45 degrees.


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## M5Tucker (Aug 8, 2011)

slocaus said:


> It is very narrow, no room to reroute the trail properly. With modern trail design, there would never be a trail here. This is putting band-aids on bullet holes, we know, but *State Parks wants to keep it alive*, so we do. Rogue hoes really helped!


So do I  It's short but sweet going down, and a key part of my favorite loop out there. I love me some Rogue hoes, they'll do anything from rocks to roots and everything in between. That new one with the teeth looks like a future purchase to me!


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

True enough. We don't tend to build to IMBA rules, as you probably already guessed. For example, by constructing a 5% outslope bench you lose the chance to capture silt and add that to the contouring and curing process. Allowing time to observe drainage in action, working by hand and without a deadline as such, a clinometer may be used at the "start" but not all that often. Mine reads in degrees of grade.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Thanks for all the great advise guys.

I used a Hazel Adze Hoe as pictured above this weekend. Worked much better then the 5# mattock I have been using. Right now, we have had a ton of rain so the soil is nice and loose. Between this hoe, and a Mcleod our small team was able to move quite a bit of dirt to cut in a reroute. I will be picking up a Rogue Hoe at some point to try out as I think it has some features that the Hazel Adze lacks.


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## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

PUBCRAWL said:


>


We call this tool a Rhino where I'm from, because it's a damn workhorse!:thumbsup:
Pulaskis are outdated and do half of what these do.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

Rogue hoes rock! (pun intended  )


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## trailbildr (Dec 8, 2004)

I gotta have something called a Rogue Hoe. And I think I just came up with a great name for a beer too...

mk


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## mike_d_1583 (Feb 12, 2008)

Here you go:


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## Maday (Aug 21, 2008)

Picked up a 60A today... Benchin'


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## indytrekracer (Feb 13, 2004)

*rhino version of rogue hoe*

Sorry to revive this thread, but found out today that Rogue Hoe now directly sells the Rhino with Ergo Handle (*80R)*. 









It is our go to tool in Indiana. While different areas of the country have different needs it is just right for moving Midwest soils.

You can get similar rogue hoes with with smaller heads as well (*FB55H and FB70H)*, which are better for chopping or working in rocky areas.

HMBA-IMBA orders 20+ at a time to get a volume discount and to reduce the per tool shipping cost.

Rogue Hoes- Trailbuilding Tools

I ordered a few rakes to try out as well.


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## Dickweed (Jul 14, 2009)

I've found that I can benchcut all day long with a 70HR54, whereas an 80R pretty much wears me down after 5 or 6 hours due to the additional weight, so the 70HR54 is my go-to tool these days. Of course, I'm old and busted, so maybe the extra weight isn't an issue for everyone.


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## BikeParkNooB (Jan 20, 2012)

Can't beat the Good Ol' Trusty Pulaski......Loooove that thing!!
Also a simple Pic-Mattock works just about anywhere on anything....


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