# I need serious help HT or FS.



## start_sendit_stop (Mar 23, 2021)

I currently have a '14 nimble 9 aggressive HT frame (got it for free) that i could build. This seemingly would be the obvious choice because of price for components, BUT i could buy a squish bike with similar components (the only sacrifice would be hubs) I ride everything from flow green trails to tech and flow black diamond some double black trails. Which would be the better choice.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Every self-respecting biker needs both. Plus a decent road bike. You can then start expanding further from this base. Fixed gear, etc.


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## start_sendit_stop (Mar 23, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Every self-respecting biker needs both. Plus a decent road bike. You can then start expanding further from this base. Fixed gear, etc.


thank you for the help i will start saving up for a full suspension and keep my XC hardtail until i can afford to build my HT


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

start_sendit_stop said:


> thank you for the help i will start saving up for a full suspension and keep my XC hardtail until i can afford to build my HT


I was kinda joking. Kinda not.

I love my Honzo and I love my Druid. If I were to only keep one bike out of all mine, it would be my Honzo. I love being able to ride the same terrain on that bike as my Druid. It feels like a serious accomplishment each and every time. I love that bike.

*I also have a rigid, a fixed gear, a DH, a cyclocross and an e-fatty in the stable, among others


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Q1: Rigid, partially rigid or full flaccid. 
Only you know what you like best. 
=sParty


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

my method: never ride a FS bike. I'm always satisfied with a hardtail because I don't know what I am missing.


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## GKelley (Sep 4, 2018)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Every self-respecting biker needs both. Plus a decent road bike. You can then start expanding further from this base. Fixed gear, etc.


A hardtail will cover road riding just fine. As long as you're not having to keep up with other roadies.

If I could only have one bike, it would be a hardtail, because it can do everything well enough. Get that sorted, then maybe get a full suspension for second bike in the future.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

mack_turtle said:


> my method: never ride a FS bike. I'm always satisfied with a hardtail because I don't know what I am missing.


Good advice. I always go back and forth... currently have a hardtail and full suspension, and I am debating selling the hardtail to fund new wheels and squishy parts for the full sus. 

Stupid. I know I'd regret it but I will probably do it anyways. Glutton for punishment.


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## Jolyzara (Jan 11, 2022)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Good advice. I always go back and forth... currently have a hardtail and full suspension, and I am debating selling the hardtail to fund new wheels and squishy parts for the full sus.
> 
> Stupid. I know I'd regret it but I will probably do it anyways. Glutton for punishment.


You want a hard tail just lock out the suspension right?


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## Trinimon (Aug 6, 2019)

I sold my HT and bought a FS a couple years ago. Man, the FS was so much fun hitting bigger features and nice on long days on the trail but I was missing the HT fun too. Ended up building up a HT with hand-me down parts from upgrading the FS over time. Midweek rides, I use my HT to workout. They're usually under 3hr rides. On wknds, I bring out the FS for hitting the bigger features and gnarlier trails and longer 5+hrs rides.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Guys, all this talk of "only one bike" and "selling the hardtail to buy a FS/wheels" is making me really stressed out.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

keep in mind: not everyone has disposable income to spend on multiple, nice bikes. there's nothing wrong with acting your _wage_ and making careful choices about buying one nice bike instead of either going into irresponsible amounts of debt or owning a few mediocre bikes that you can afford. the jokes can be fun, but don't make people feel bad that they have financial responsibilities that take away from buying toys.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

mack_turtle said:


> keep in mind: not everyone has disposable income to spend on multiple, nice bikes. there's nothing wrong with acting your _wage_ and making careful choices about buying one nice bike instead of either going into irresponsible amounts of debt or owning a few mediocre bikes that you can afford. the jokes can be fun, but don't make people feel bad that they have financial responsibilities that take away from buying toys.


I'm 100% with you, no way I would finance a bike. But it does make me a bit stressed if I start to think about which bike I would keep if I could only keep one. But I'm also not that much of a gear hound, I don't need expensive bikes nor the latest gear.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

chazpat said:


> I'm 100% with you, no way I would finance a bike. But it does make me a bit stressed if I start to think about which bike I would keep if I could only keep one. But I'm also not that much of a gear hound, I don't need expensive bikes nor the latest gear.


It's pretty interesting how many bike companies are using financing now... can't imagine buying a bike on 12% interest.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

personal opinion FACT: if you can't afford to buy a toy with money you have, you need to save some more. financing hobbies is foolish. if you disagree, you're wrong.


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

mack_turtle said:


> my method: never ride a FS bike. I'm always satisfied with a hardtail because I don't know what I am missing.


That was my method for like 15 years. Despite being a pretty serious mountain biker through all that time, I'd never actually ridden a FS until I finally caved and bought one a couple weeks ago. I'll see how things go when I get back on my hardtail, but it's scary how fast one can adapt to the extra squish.

Honestly though, a solid trail hardtail is super versatile and not a bad option.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

mack_turtle said:


> personal opinion FACT: if you can't afford to buy a toy with money you have, you need to save some more. financing hobbies is foolish. if you disagree, you're wrong.


So we shouldn't crack jokes because we may make people with low cash flow feel bad, but it's ok to call people foolish if they decide to make payments on a $5000+ item related to their hobby? Not that I disagree with you, but your post kind of sounds like a Dave Ramsey commercial.


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## ualar (Sep 18, 2020)

Get a Trek Supercaliber for both, i am so happy with mine. And no i don't have road bike or any other bike than my supercaliber. So much fun with it on trail and tarmac. Just pump the tires over 40 psi for tarmac and lock both suspensions for most part of it and then lose the air for trail


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

start_sendit_stop said:


> I currently have a '14 nimble 9 aggressive HT frame (got it for free) that i could build. This seemingly would be the obvious choice because of price for components, BUT i could buy a squish bike with similar components (the only sacrifice would be hubs) I ride everything from flow green trails to tech and flow black diamond some double black trails. Which would be the better choice.


Sell me the Nimble 9 really cheap then get yourself a nice FS bike.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> my method: never ride a FS bike. I'm always satisfied with a hardtail because I don't know what I am missing.


Related to this, kinda, is another side benefit of putting serious mileage in on my HT. When I then hop on my FS, OMG does my 130mm suspension feel plush. Bottomless actually.

OP - if it’s not obvious to you that you want a FS over (or in addition to) a HT, then stick with the HT for now. HTs rock.


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## julianw (Sep 23, 2021)

remember the 2014 nimble 9 geometry isn't that long or slack compared to today's geometry. it has a 68 deg head angle with a 120 mm fork and a 405 mm reach on a medium.








2013-2015 Canfield Nimble 9


2013-2015 Nimble 9 Features 29″ All Mountain 4130 chromoly steel 68º head angle with a 120mm fork Adjustable 16.25“ – 16.9” chainstays Low toptube for increased stand over height Custom sliding 142mm x 12mm rear dropouts, Maxle included Hydroformed toptube ED Black treated for superior...




canfieldbikes.com




your 2021 talon has a 67.5 deg head angle for 27.5 wheels or 68.5 for 29 wheels and a 425 mm reach on a medium. so they might be more similar than different.

a hardtail with the right geometry will be able to do everything you can on a full suspension, you just won't do it at the same speed if it's really bumpy. the full suspension will be more comfortable but you're going to have more maintenance to deal with in the long run.

i don't like dealing with bike maintenance so i ride a hardtail (64 deg head angle, 140/160mm fork). i would ride a rigid fork if i could but my wrists wouldn't be able to handle the chunk, and the downhills are too fun not to have front suspension.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

dude, you got a nice ht frame for free so i'd build that and save for a dual. i have a 13 n9 (partial flaccid) and will never part ways with it. i just got my full squish a rascal in april (full flaccid). back home (michigan) i was content with the n9 but wanted to start feeling it less. read as i'm getting old. so i got a rascal and so glad i did. it just depends on things

edit: to the above post run it mullet and pick up some in the head. run a 140 as i do and gain more. keep in mind you'll also pickup another 10mm to that 140 if you're not running an external lower cup already


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Not knocking your Canfield at all, but I don’t think I’d put much money into it, as its geometry is pretty dated.

“Modern” for a hardtail now means </= 65 degree head angles, longer reach (475mm or more on a large frame), and a steepish seat tube angle (more than 75 degrees). They climb great and can seriously shred the downhills.

Going into my second season on my Honzo ESD, I can see no reason to go with a less aggressive hardtail. It gives up nothing with its super slack HA on the climbs, and I can descend _anything._. I could be happy with just this bike.

That said, I do still have an enduro bike for the high speed tech, as that is one area where a hardtail shows its only real limitations. Slow, ultra steep tech is no problem on a modern hardtail though. On flow trails all my PRs and Strava KOMs are on my Honzo.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

cookieMonster said:


> Not knocking your Canfield at all, but I don’t think I’d put much money into it, as its geometry is pretty dated.
> 
> “Modern” for a hardtail now means </= 65 degree head angles, longer reach (475mm or more on a large frame), and a steepish seat tube angle (more than 75 degrees). They climb great and can seriously shred the downhills.
> 
> ...


Not trying to be contrarian, but not everyone is of this view. I posted this elsewhere (note that I am close to throwing down on an ESD so I’m not trying to be argumentative):

A guy I know at my LBS, who is a relatively hard charging, very seasoned rider, was building a brand new Honzo ST the other day when I was by. I asked him whose bike it was and he said his. I asked him about his ESD and he said he had stripped it and put the frame up for sale.
A guy I know at my LBS, who is a relatively hard charging, very seasoned rider, was building a brand new Honzo ST the other day when I was by. I asked him whose bike it was and he said his. I asked him about his ESD and he said he had stripped it and put the frame up for sale.

According to him, the ESD is a decent climber, and (not unexpectedly) great on the downs. But on the flats it was a handful.

My Honzo ST is awesome except when I hit the super gnar with it. I find the seat tube too high. Even with my dropper buried, I feel like I am towering above it. I do love it though.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Not trying to be contrarian, but not everyone is of this view. I posted this elsewhere (note that I am close to throwing down on an ESD so I’m not trying to be argumentative):
> 
> A guy I know at my LBS, who is a relatively hard charging, very seasoned rider, was building a brand new Honzo ST the other day when I was by. I asked him whose bike it was and he said his. I asked him about his ESD and he said he had stripped it and put the frame up for sale.
> A guy I know at my LBS, who is a relatively hard charging, very seasoned rider, was building a brand new Honzo ST the other day when I was by. I asked him whose bike it was and he said his. I asked him about his ESD and he said he had stripped it and put the frame up for sale.
> ...


Regarding flat terrain…what’s that?🤣. I don’t really ride anything flat, except the one mile to the mountains from my house when I do the close trails. I suppose if you rode 10 miles of flat terrain or more, your wrists would get tired of having so much weight on them.

There are tradeoffs. The steep ST angle is what makes the ESD comfortable on climbs and climb well.

I hear you about the regular Honzo Steel and older aluminum frames’ high seatpost. I had an aluminum Honzo first — loved it — but that was my main complaint about it. I need a 170mm dropper and couldn’t fit one because the ST was so high. I could not get low enough even with the seat all the way down. I believe they have addressed that with all the new Honzo models.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

cookieMonster said:


> Regarding flat terrain…what’s that?🤣. I don’t really ride anything flat, except the one mile to the mountains from my house when I do the close trails. I suppose if you rode 10 miles of flat terrain or more, your wrists would get tired of having so much weight on them.
> 
> There are tradeoffs. The steep ST angle is what makes the ESD comfortable on climbs and climb well.
> 
> I hear you about the regular Honzo Steel and older aluminum frames’ high seatpost. I had an aluminum Honzo first — loved it — but that was my main complaint about it. I need a 170mm dropper and couldn’t fit one because the ST was so high. I could not get low enough even with the seat all the way down. I believe they have addressed that with all the new Honzo models.


We live in the Canadian Rockies. Ride profile for most rides is up, up, up, and then down, down, down. Most rides are a minimum of 1000 m (3,250 ft) of elevation gain. Some day outings are considerably more. When I say “flats”, that’s a relative term.

The guy I was referring to above is a life long dedicated rider/racer/industry guy who is among the fastest riders I know. He has been on a bike 4-7x/week for 20+ years and is still young and aggressive. To put things into perspective, Kona named a bike after him.

I just texted him. Here’s our exchange:

*Yo. Just wondering if you are still happier on your non-ESD Honzo than you were on the ESD.*


_*Hi Mike.*_
*Yeah. Definitely.*

All that said, that’s him. You are you. And I am me. And I still want an ESD 🤘👊👍


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## Balgaroth (Dec 14, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Every self-respecting biker needs both. Plus a decent road bike. You can then start expanding further from this base. Fixed gear, etc.


I beg to differ, any self-respecting Mtbiker should have a FS and a HT, never go to the dark side and expend with Pump, Trial, Dirt, DH. Gravel might be accepted only if you can justify of a medical condition.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Balgaroth said:


> I beg to differ, any self-respecting Mtbiker should have a FS and a HT, never go to the dark side and expend with Pump, Trial, Dirt, DH. Gravel might be accepted only if you can justify of a medical condition.


Haha. I am not a big road biker at all. The extent of my road biking (almost) is commuting. And my Wahoo KICKR bike resembles a road bike. That’s about it.

That said, I ascribe to the 7Mesh motto - “any two wheels”. Love my Kona Paddy Wagon fixed gear. Really nice to get some road mileage in to mix things up, training wise, or when I am pressed for time and can’t get to the mountains (which are only 25 minutes from my driveway). Plus it’s nice to hit two birds with one stone, doubling up transportation with training, whenever I commute.


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## Balgaroth (Dec 14, 2021)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Haha. I am not a big road biker at all. The extent of my road biking (almost) is commuting. And my Wahoo KICKR bike resembles a road bike. That’s about it.
> 
> That said, I ascribe to the 7Mesh motto - “any two wheels”. Love my Kona Paddy Wagon fixed gear. Really nice to get some road mileage in to mix things up, training wise, or when I am pressed for time and can’t get to the mountains (which are only 25 minutes from my driveway). Plus it’s nice to hit two birds with one stone, doubling up transportation with training, whenever I commute.


I will give you that, for commuting anything with 2 wheels is acceptable and way better tha public transport or traffic, hands down.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I've got one word for you guys -- singlespeed.
Okay, maybe that's actually two words.
=sParty


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

One bike to rule them all including double black? 160/170mm enduro bike. 
simply put. The hard will have a top end thats lower than the enduro bike. You will limit what you can do. 
Enduro bike can do everything... with the exception of pump track, dirt jumps and trails....... 

Build the hard at a later date.


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## Michigan Man (Aug 17, 2018)

I built up a Nimble 9 in June and haven’t ridden my SC Tallboy 3 since. Both are great bikes but the Nimble 9 brings a special kind of fun. Don’t sleep on HTs.


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## ugadawg (Jun 27, 2020)

julianw said:


> remember the 2014 nimble 9 geometry isn't that long or slack compared to today's geometry. it has a 68 deg head angle with a 120 mm fork and a 405 mm reach on a medium.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A 68 HA isn’t that bad. I have a Honzo with a 68 HA and I don’t really notice much difference between it and the 66 HA on my Nimble 9. I might notice or if I lived in different terrain, but both work for my local trails.


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## start_sendit_stop (Mar 23, 2021)

julianw said:


> remember the 2014 nimble 9 geometry isn't that long or slack compared to today's geometry. it has a 68 deg head angle with a 120 mm fork and a 405 mm reach on a medium.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


abt the 68 degree ha i was planning on running it with a 140mm fork and possibly angleset to not be affecting the sta


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The right hardtail makes all the difference. And it depends on the type of riding you see yourself doing. My biggest concern with old enough hardtails are going to be SA and Reach. Canfield is also crazy. Like you can't (I mean you can) run a frame at 100 and at 140mm fork travel. One of those will be garbage. The reach on the frame is ridiculously short, add a 140mm fork and it will be even shorter. SA looks good, but unclear what fork length that's measured at. 

Between FS and HT it's hard to say. But I wouldn't spend money building up that frame. It was good for it's day, but it's day is long passed.

I have hardtails only - I sold my FS bike. I am 5'11". This is my brand new-old school hardtail. 430mm chainstays, 455 reach (I use a 60mm stem on it). 110mm of travel 67 degree HA. It's a ton of fun. But it gives up on the downs. I don't really want to ride this bike on blacks. Gravel to Blue to tech blue is ton of fun. 









This is my enduro hardtail. 415 CS, 470 reach (35mm stem), 150mm of travel, 63.5 HA. It's a ton of fun. But it doesn't climb like the above bike. And flat ground is pointless for it. I am setting PRs down my local black trails on this bike. And, lollygagging my way up the mountains.









I also have a 65 degree HA bike that's very similar to the green one. I think it is the "balanced" bike just works well everywhere. I wanted a extremes though (and I'll turn that bike back into a singlespeed at some point soon)


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> my method: never ride a FS bike. I'm always satisfied with a hardtail because I don't know what I am missing.


LOL! That's my approach to 29ers.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

mack_turtle said:


> personal opinion FACT: if you can't afford to buy a toy with money you have, you need to save some more. financing hobbies is foolish. if you disagree, you're wrong.


But think of the poor financiers! They need to eat, I mean buy yachts...


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

My worthless opinion is that the more and bigger the mountains that you have where you live, the more compelling the case for a FS bike. Yes, I'm well aware of how great AM/HT's are.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Curveball said:


> My worthless opinion is that the more and bigger the mountains that you have where you live, the more compelling the case for a FS bike. Yes, I'm well aware of how great AM/HT's are.


That's one way to look at it, another is actual trail features and surface. I came from Colorado. Big, big mountains. Rode a hardtail exclusively. Now riding the Phoenix area. The mountains are tiny little things compared to Colorado. The trail features and surface will turn your bones to jelly. It is much bigger commitment to stick with a HT here, smaller mountains and all. FS is much more tenable.


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## julianw (Sep 23, 2021)

ugadawg said:


> A 68 HA isn’t that bad. I have a Honzo with a 68 HA and I don’t really notice much difference between it and the 66 HA on my Nimble 9. I might notice or if I lived in different terrain, but both work for my local trails.


my intent was not to say there's something wrong with 68 deg. but it's definitely not an "aggressive" hardtail by modern standards.

i have an older fox fork on my mmmbop than has 2 settings, 140mm and 160mm, but i haven't measured the axle to crown height. the frame was designed for a 150mm fork at 64 deg. i can tell the difference in handling and body position when i switch between the two heights.

i went to sedona last fall and "rode" hangover for the first time, meaning i walked a lot of the double black sections. if i had a 140mm full suspension i would have probably walked a lot of the same sections. lol it's my skill, not the bike that's holding me back. but i hated my life when climbing the bumpy jeep road approach on a hardtail. i don't think i'll ever do that jeep road again on a hardtail.


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## ugadawg (Jun 27, 2020)

julianw said:


> my intent was not to say there's something wrong with 68 deg. but it's definitely not an "aggressive" hardtail by modern standards.
> 
> i have an older fox fork on my mmmbop than has 2 settings, 140mm and 160mm, but i haven't measured the axle to crown height. the frame was designed for a 150mm fork at 64 deg. i can tell the difference in handling and body position when i switch between the two heights.
> 
> i went to sedona last fall and "rode" hangover for the first time, meaning i walked a lot of the double black sections. if i had a 140mm full suspension i would have probably walked a lot of the same sections. lol it's my skill, not the bike that's holding me back. but i hated my life when climbing the bumpy jeep road approach on a hardtail. i don't think i'll ever do that jeep road again on a hardtail.


I didn’t think you were implying that it’s bad. I agree that 68 isn’t aggressive. I was just pointing out that it might be fine, depending on the terrain.


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

BadgerOne said:


> That's one way to look at it, another is actual trail features and surface. I came from Colorado. Big, big mountains. Rode a hardtail exclusively. Now riding the Phoenix area. The mountains are tiny little things compared to Colorado. The trail features and surface will turn your bones to jelly. It is much bigger commitment to stick with a HT here, smaller mountains and all. FS is much more tenable.


This is how I approach it as well. It’s a bit more complicated though, I think. I sometimes have a hard time choosing which bike I’m going to ride on a given day (hardtail or enduro), because I love them both so much.

We have big mountains (3000ft + descents), but not all of those trails are necessarily that rough. Some of them are (the old ones that weren’t necessarily made with mountain biking in mind). The newer trails that were made with mountain biking in mind tend to be much smoother and wider, and my hardtail is an excellent choice for those, as it really doesn’t give up anything, and is the lighter, more efficient of the two. On these trails I don’t have to ride overly physical, as there aren’t many features to absorb.

Then there’s the rough, old school trails with constant root webs and rocks. There is a “pitch window” in which these types of trails are also high-speed. That’s where I’ll be much happier on my fully.

But then, beyond a certain steepness, when things get so steep and rowdy that you must ride much slower to avoid death — that’s where my hardtail starts to become a valid choice again, as I’m going slow enough that my legs can react in time to the terrain.

There is one trail we have that features an insanely steep section— it drops about 300 feet in about an eighth of a mile. Your back tire is off the ground part of the time unless your butt is on that thing, practically. I find my hardtail perfectly fine on that section. Later on though, the trail levels out (a relative term— it’s still way steeper than any sanctioned trail), and the speeds can come up significantly. At this point my hardtail beats the crap out of me…🤣


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## s0ckeyeus (Jun 20, 2008)

julianw said:


> i went to sedona last fall and "rode" hangover for the first time, meaning i walked a lot of the double black sections. if i had a 140mm full suspension i would have probably walked a lot of the same sections. lol it's my skill, not the bike that's holding me back. but i hated my life when climbing the bumpy jeep road approach on a hardtail. i don't think i'll ever do that jeep road again on a hardtail.


Ugh. I can empathize with that feeling. I hate those types of climbs on a hardtail. I'll take the tech all day, but grinding up bumpy, chattery terrain is the worst.


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## looks easy from here (Apr 16, 2019)

Base geo's pretty close, and I'm a sucker for steel, so I'd just move everything compatible from the Giant to the Canfield, and put a Brand X dropper and Works Components -2° Angleset on it for a bump of confidence when pointed down.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

GKelley said:


> A hardtail will cover road riding just fine. As long as you're not having to keep up with other roadies.
> 
> If I could only have one bike, it would be a hardtail, because it can do everything well enough. Get that sorted, then maybe get a full suspension for second bike in the future.


Every time I think I'm riding fairly fast on pavement, some road biker passes me going about 5-10 mph faster. I dunno about full-suspension even as a 2nd bike. Either you want to bomb down hills at 20+ MPH sitting down almost the whole way, basically pretending to sip on a Frappachino, or you don't. And if you do, you want full-suspension. If you don't, if you do not mind standing up a lot if there is a significant bump or set of bumps in the trail, and you can take the bumps and lumps with no complaints, then you just ride hardtails. I see these videos of guys blazing down really difficult trails with expensive FS bikes, makes it look like they are in some grooved sled race and just cruising along casually, not doing too much besides leaning, turning the bars and hitting the brakes sometimes. You can't do that with a hardtail; you have to concentrate 100% of the time, every split second. The body positioning downhill is so much more critical. Not to mention the amount of fork compression, rear brake limit before tire lockup, etc. You have to think about a lot of different variables at the same time. Many of the hardtail components get used to the max downhill to make up for the lack of rear suspension. Some people are fine with that, some find that and the body fatigue too demanding. So while I'm sure there are many who love both kinds of bikes, the gap between them is widening even with AM/Enduro hardtails counted.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

No good riders who ride a FS are doing it to bomb downhill sitting down. (I say as someone who only rides hardtails right now)

The videos you see of riders cruising down on FS bikes, guess what their body would look the same on a hardtail.

The right hardtail will keep on on mixed surface road ride. I did a 44 miles 5800 climbing race this weekend on the below hardtail and it didn't hold me up at all.










But yeah, once it's a pure road ride and it's flat enough or windy enough drop bars have a huge advantage.

A hardtail or a FS is just a personal decision. Right now all your assumptions on why people ride a FS are wrong for anyone who is at or above moderate skill level.


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

It cracks me up to read some of the comments posted. You would think an old hard tail with a 69 or even 70 degree HA and a 72 or 73 degree SA is incapable of handling rough terrain. 

Trail and rake also contribute to the ride on a frame. Wheel size as well. 

I still ride a hard tail at 62. Love the challenge of technical riding, even at speed, on a hard tail.

Find the bike that fits your needs and trails and ride it. Don’t listen to the people that say your frame doesn’t have the new, popular Geo So its not worth buying components for. 

The ’n’ here is rider ability. Develop some and have fun !


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## theandrewjoe (Oct 2, 2018)

Since OP is asking, and he put hes from NC. I'd recommend a squish. Something that can let you hit stuff you think you might want to one day. You are also in NC, hit a bike park and rent a rig...see how you like it.

Just think through your riding style, I personally think you should keep riding a hardtail until you learn what you want from your next bike.


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## Schmeg (Nov 2, 2021)

azjonboy said:


> It cracks me up to read some of the comments posted. You would think an old hard tail with a 69 or even 70 degree HA and a 72 or 73 degree SA is incapable of handling rough terrain.
> 
> Trail and rake also contribute to the ride on a frame. Wheel size as well.
> 
> ...


At 61 years old, I couldn’t agree more.


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

Old farts unite!


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