# CANCELLED: STRAVA SUMMIT - You Should Too :)



## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

I just cancelled my STRAVA Summit subscription. Why you ask?

- Recently, STRAVA eliminated the e-bike ride as a "goal" contributor. E.g. if you have a 1,500 mile/year goal, no Ebike rides / miles are counted against that. That's just dumb and anti-ebike.

- Ebike rides do not contribute to the global heatmap AND/OR your personal HeatMaps. I don't care so much about Global, but I do care that they are not included on my personal Heatmap which is private to me anyways.

- STRAVA still lacks an "E-Bike" default activity. This is probably the #1 contributor to people complaining about ebikes, lol, no joke. Want to see someone freak out? Go ebike a hotly contested segment and don't switch your ride for a few hours. If you had an ebike Default Activity, this would resolve 99% of these issues.

I'm just losing faith in STRAVA given what appears to be an emerging anti-ebike stance. So that's cool if they want to take that approach, but they won't get any more of my $$ if that's the case. If you own an e-bike and currently subscribe, think about if this is what you support. If you cancel, make sure you hit "other reason" and list out some their anti-ebike stances. It should be clear to them that their stances are resulting in lost subscribers. It's the only way to get them to take notice. 

Honestly, Summit doesn't really add enough functionality to make it worth it anyways and I've been subscribed for multiple years. I would say a Trailforks PRO is way more beneficial than a STRAVA Summit subscription and its cheaper.

$0.02


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

There's a difference between being anti-ebike and not serving ebikes to level you want. I ride both and can deal with it...


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

**** Strava, I gave up my premium membership when it expired n January. It’s just stupid now. They are anti ebike but pro virtual racing (Zwift), not my cup of tea but perhaps the future of millennial idiots. 


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

shreddr said:


> not my cup of tea but perhaps the future of millennial idiots.


This boomers a little bitter


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

russinthecascades said:


> There's a difference between being anti-ebike and not serving ebikes to level you want. I ride both and can deal with it...


Yeah I could agree for example if ebikes never counted for goals, but they purposefully changed them to NOT count. That isn't just not serving, that is actually anti-ebike.

Go through the Strava community forums and the requests for ebikes to be a default activity and to count on personal heatmaps has been requested over and over for a pretty long time. These may not be "anti" but they definitely show they don't care or prioritize the ever growing community of ebike users.

The number 1 flack about ebikes is people not changing their ride from standard to ebike. If there was an option to make ebike your default, you wouldn't have to change it and people wouldn't usually see ebikes on standard segments.

Since this is one of the more contentious issues with STRAVA right now.  I would say easily the most contentious. The fact there is such as easy fix and they choose not to do it, says a lot.

I also ride both standard and ebike, but most people will gravitate towards one as a "default" choice. If that's ebike, you are forced to change the majority of your rides. That doesn't make sense.


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

shreddr said:


> **** Strava, I gave up my premium membership when it expired n January. It's just stupid now. They are anti ebike but pro virtual racing (Zwift), not my cup of tea but perhaps the future of millennial idiots.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Be careful! Those Millennial idiots you called out will find you and burn your house down if you disagree with them.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Seriously guys with the overtly political posts..... very much against site posting rules.

no politics. NONE.


To the OP's topic. I don't have to cancel because I never signed up. The free service gives me all I want from it, how many miles I just rode or walked, how much elevation I did, how much I do in a year and how I compared to my last rides.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Klurejr said:


> Seriously guys with the overtly political posts..... very much against site posting rules.
> 
> no politics. NONE.
> 
> To the OP's topic. I don't have to cancel because I never signed up. The free service gives me all I want from it, how many miles I just rode or walked, how much elevation I did, how much I do in a year and how I compared to my last rides.


Yeah, that's kind of the point. I've rode 1,723.1 mi this year, but only 747 miles count towards my goal. My obvious breakdown is 747 standard / 976 e-bike. It's just a lame change that suggest a certain stance. Not one I am willing to support, and hopefully others in this forum, check's forum, *ebikes*, will choose not to support and let Strava know why.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I like Strava in general (and I pay for it, especially since I road/gravel/fat as well) but they will eventually be more open to E-bikes. They have to be, in order to be a viable business, given the wider acceptance of E-bikes. 

Many of us have been regular mountain bikers and road/gravel/fat bikers for a long long time...decades. The bad rap is probably from newbies who jump on the E-wagon and have no etiquette. I have run into a few of those squids. Still, Strava will accommodate E-bikes soon since they do want to be a viable business and grab as much marketshare as possible.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

meh, I pay for Strava, and will continue to do so. I use it every freaking day for walks, analog bike rides, soon for e-bike rides, and I used to use it for motorcycle rides. Using the free version would be free-loading imho. Don't like it, don't use it. Pretty simple.



.


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## tinfang (Sep 2, 2019)

Strava should identify singletracks as opposed to road use and it's bonkers how they don't like ebikes but allow trainers. Ebikes are just outdoor trainers.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

tinfang said:


> Strava should identify singletracks as opposed to road use and it's bonkers how they don't like ebikes but allow trainers. *Ebikes are just outdoor trainers*. .


How do you figure? A trainer doesn't do the work for you.


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## tinfang (Sep 2, 2019)

Train Wreck said:


> How do you figure? A trainer doesn't do the work for you.


I would suggest you try an emtb since it is obvious you haven't. I am always spinning same as my regular bike.


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## george2490 (Dec 5, 2016)

Hilarious.
One less motorbike.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

tinfang said:


> I would suggest you try an emtb since it is obvious you haven't. I am always spinning same as my regular bike.


I don't and I doubt many others do either. That's nothing against ebikes btw.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

*CANCELLED: STRAVA SUMMIT - You Should Too *

I'm sure they will miss you dearly. And Ebike is a default if you record through the app or if your device is smart enough to send. My Father in Laws is set to this. In fact I got the automated update today that he completed an ebike ride. When in fact it was a regular ride because he doesn't know how to change it back ?

And your ebikeness should not be a part of Goals. Period. It's not remotely comparable to mountain biking under your own power.

If you need to track it use excel, it's free and you can track far more data.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

FJSnoozer said:


> I'm sure they will miss you dearly. And Ebike is a default if you record through the app or if your device is smart enough to send. My Father in Laws is set to this. In fact I got the automated update today that he completed an ebike ride. When in fact it was a regular ride because he doesn't know how to change it back ?
> 
> And your ebikeness should not be a part of Goals. Period. It's not remotely comparable to mountain biking under your own power.
> 
> ...


You are obviously clueless and have never ridden an ebike either. All those that own one or have spent any amount of time with one will tell you the same thing, you put in the same effort, you just go a lot faster.

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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

FJSnoozer said:


> I'm sure they will miss you dearly. And Ebike is a default if you record through the app or if your device is smart enough to send. My Father in Laws is set to this. In fact I got the automated update today that he completed an ebike ride. When in fact it was a regular ride because he doesn't know how to change it back ?
> 
> And your ebikeness should not be a part of Goals. Period. It's not remotely comparable to mountain biking under your own power.
> 
> ...


I don't have an e-bike and don't plan on getting one anytime soon but your post has been totally debunked for quite a while now.

Plenty of info showing you people who ride e-bikes build fitness. It's also pretty obvious you can ride them just as hard as a normal mtb but you just go faster. If you put out 300 watts and the bike puts out 250 that's 550 combined. You still put out 300 watts, the bike doesn't take away from that. The great thing is you have the option to slow down and recover fully before you put in the next effort.

If you're training for downhill you can stay in an aerobic effort on the way up and hit the downhills harder giving you a more effective workout along with doing more runs.

I've been considering one more for road cycling where I put in most of my training rides. I can leave the assist OFF and ride intervals till total failure. Then turn pedal assist on to get home.

E-bike miles should undoubtedly count in Strava. They even have SUP boarding on there which is usually about just relaxing and paddling around slowly.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

Fajita Dave said:


> I don't have an e-bike and don't plan on getting one anytime soon but your post has been totally debunked for quite a while now.
> 
> Plenty of info showing you people who ride e-bikes build fitness. It's also pretty obvious you can ride them just as hard as a normal mtb but you just go faster. If you put out 300 watts and the bike puts out 250 that's 550 combined. You still put out 300 watts, the bike doesn't take away from that. The great thing is you have the option to slow down and recover fully before you put in the next effort.
> 
> ...


Right on brother 

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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Why not just record your rides normally and then make them private so you don’t show up on any leaderboards? That way your miles still get recorded and you won’t get flagged. Kind of cheating the system but that shouldn’t bother an ebiker


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

or make two normal bikes in Strava and use one as your ebike

pretty simple really


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## OldManBike (Apr 16, 2011)

I was on the fence about upgrading but this hilarious little thread finally persuaded me to do it.


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## tinfang (Sep 2, 2019)

Train Wreck said:


> Why not just record your rides normally and then make them private so you don't show up on any leaderboards? That way your miles still get recorded and you won't get flagged. Kind of cheating the system but that shouldn't bother an ebiker


Anyone who thinks leaderboards mean something hasn't been paying attention. I have many bikes some are emtb's some are not. I'll record a ride, it saves public but I change it when I get home and lose mileage and/or mph when I move it from ride - to ebike ride. Even so on regular rides the satellites are not consistent and notice you cannot create segments under 0.5 miles now? Ride a few thousand miles of singletrack this year and see what I'm talking about. You'll get some segments that are insanely quick (I did not hit 3/4 mile in 12 seconds) and some are weirdly slow. Using another application and I gained at least 2 mph on my lunch loops. Pretty much all my rides get pulled into followers only or private but it's funny to see the difference when saving them as different activities.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

*CANCELLED: STRAVA SUMMIT - You Should Too *



Fajita Dave said:


> I don't have an e-bike and don't plan on getting one anytime soon but your post has been totally debunked for quite a while now.
> 
> Plenty of info showing you people who ride e-bikes build fitness. It's also pretty obvious you can ride them just as hard as a normal mtb but you just go faster. If you put out 300 watts and the bike puts out 250 that's 550 combined. You still put out 300 watts, the bike doesn't take away from that. The great thing is you have the option to slow down and recover fully before you put in the next effort.
> 
> ...


SUP, Kayaking, riding a dirt bike, or an ebike all require energy and are a workout of some type, that's for sure. They are all cross training and should not be counted in your standard Cycling Hours. I would track them as cross training activities, but some people may track differently, but that's Fake when it comes to mileage (real if you are counting hours). Strava does do this, I am not sure what issue the OP is having because everything he is bitching about, my app does.

Your explanation of the way an ebike works is great...in a vacuum, but that's not how it works in execution. You average person can't ride around at 550 watts and keep the bike on the trail.

I do have experience with a Turbo Lev and the difference between it and a Top fuel and what it does to your effort. It's an interesting tool for zone 2 MTB rides and for slower friends and relatives to get to experience what it's like to ride with Fast people.

There is also a definite learning curve. I've put a Cat 3 racer on one to keep up with a pro XC racer, and "tested" on lots of trail systems. It wasn't exactly the result I expected. The Cat 3 was just not used to going that fast on a real trail and got dropped. On a Jeep road climb it's no contest for the eBike.

On Strava, if you are using HEart Rate, you will have a calculated suffer score from your ride which will be added to your overall training Volume weekly. All activities are added. Some evokes will export the power data file. It's fairly accurate and could be used for TSS in you training peaks account.

Also, it was not my intention to troll the ebike forum. Tapatalk just pushed this to me.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

I personally don't care about whether I'm on my anolog or E-bike while using strava. Nice for logging rides, miles and elevation. As far as KOM'S it's BS and not accurate with multiples of devices used and in this regard not to be taken seriously. An IT friend of mine showed me if you are tech savy how to alter your strava results. For your own results to challenge yourself then its great.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

FJSnoozer said:


> SUP, Kayaking, riding a dirt bike, or an ebike all require energy and are a workout of some type, that's for sure. They are all cross training and should not be counted in your standard Cycling Hours. I would track them as cross training activities, but some people may track differently, but that's Fake when it comes to mileage (real if you are counting hours). Strava does do this, I am not sure what issue the OP is having because everything he is bitching about, my app does.
> 
> Your explanation of the way an ebike works is great...in a vacuum, but that's not how it works in execution. You average person can't ride around at 550 watts and keep the bike on the trail.
> 
> ...


I definitely get where your coming from now. I still don't think it's a big enough difference to justify exclude e-bikes mileage from your overall riding mileage.

Strava already lumps in stationary trainer mileage in apps like Zwift with your actual riding mileage. Zwift is a little generous with distance and speed for a given power output and it's not quite the same as actually riding and yet the mileage counts in your stats.

It also lumps together my road and mtb mileage in together. I'm doing a flat 60 mile road ride today that will take around 3 and a half hours. In that amount of time on my mtb in trails I'm only going to cover about 25 miles. Effectively the road bike is "cheating" my mileage stats far more than someone on an e-bike will get relative to a normal bike.

I think it would be fair if Strava made a seperate category for Road cycling, mountain biking, virtual cycling, e-road and e-mtb and kept your mileage seperate. I don't see that happening and I really don't see how it matters at all for an individual to see their stats throughout the year. In either case the hours need to be combined so you can see your overall training load. I still hate that crap since it won't display my total hours between running and cycling but it will show them individually.

Maybe Strava can't seperate e-bike mileage from the challenge leaderboards every month so they seperate the miles entirely? I never noticed if they sort out the virtual miles on a trainer or if those count too.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Fajita Dave said:


> Strava already lumps in stationary trainer mileage in apps like Zwift with your actual riding mileage. Zwift is a little generous with distance and speed for a given power output and it's not quite the same as actually riding and yet the mileage counts in your stats.


I disagree with that, zwift seems pretty close to real world riding as far as power/speed goes. The only reason you might get more mileage per hour on zwift is because of flat courses, no wind and plenty of other riders to draft. I find zwift to be harder to earn miles on than riding outdoors even though it may take less time depending on the course you choose. If you choose the Alpe d'Huez course you won't get many miles per hour.

Distance isn't the real measure anyway imo, a 2 hour ride with lots of elevation may only get you half the mileage as a flat 2 hour ride even though the work is the same. Hours in the saddle is a better way to gauge how much work you're doing.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Fajita Dave said:


> I definitely get where your coming from now. I still don't think it's a big enough difference to justify exclude e-bikes mileage from your overall riding mileage.
> 
> Strava already lumps in stationary trainer mileage in apps like Zwift with your actual riding mileage. Zwift is a little generous with distance and speed for a given power output and it's not quite the same as actually riding and yet the mileage counts in your stats.
> 
> ...


I don't track mileage anyway. Between Zwift and the fact that I only ride an MTB in the road and trail. When I Zwift I put it in the nastiest climb I can find and get no mileage 

Zwifts dynamics are pretty accurate(less wind though) MTB and road are all fair given terrain. The ebike is not linear in what it does to your mileage. By allowing you to get by with 125 watts of your own watts you can essentially ride in mostly eco mode until the battery runs out and do 3x the mileage you otherwise may be capable of physically without imploding. If you are light weight, you can crush a 40 mile MTB ride with ease.

BTW. You do have access to an hours based log in Zwift. I use it a lot, in fact it's what I used to move to excel where I added in Nites and Weekly weight, view rolling 4 and 6 week averages, etc. go to Training Log on the desktop and change to ALL and TIME. And you will see all cross training (including strava'd dog walks ).

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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Pretty clear several of the posters above (especially --^) have never actually ridden an ebike more than a parking lot tour lol. Also, the Strava Phone app has a last used, but anyone using a Garmin Bike computer, you know, the most popular of all bike computers, can't use the "last activity" aspect of the phone app. 

I posted this in the ebike forum not because I wanted a bunch of people with no understanding of ebikes and their day to day use to give us their unsolicited uniformed thoughts, but rather inform regular ebikers of Strava's changes that shows they have moved away from a implicit bias to an actual explicit bias against ebikes.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

roughster said:


> Pretty clear several of the posters above (especially --^) have never actually ridden an ebike more than a parking lot tour lol. Also, the Strava Phone app has a last used, but anyone using a Garmin Bike computer, you know, the most popular of all bike computers, can't use the "last activity" aspect of the phone app.
> 
> I posted this in the ebike forum not because I wanted a bunch of people with no understanding of ebikes and their day to day use to give us their unsolicited uniformed thoughts, but rather inform regular ebikers of Strava's changes that shows they have moved away from a implicit bias to an actual explicit bias against ebikes.


Sounds to me that you just aren't very good at using their technology and are too lazy to open the app and toggle the ride. Your Ebike hours show up in the training log.

Again, your post shows that you don't understand how to use the premium membership you paid for. Which is fine, don't use it.

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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> I'm sure they will miss you dearly. And Ebike is a default if you record through the app or if your device is smart enough to send. My Father in Laws is set to this. In fact I got the automated update today that he completed an ebike ride. When in fact it was a regular ride because he doesn't know how to change it back 辰
> 
> And your ebikeness should not be a part of Goals. Period.* It's not remotely comparable to mountain biking under your own power. *
> 
> ...


You've ridden one right? on a big ride? Did you feel fresh after? Like you could do 5k climbing on a reg mtb?

i will say you are right. When you get really tired on a reg mtb, you have to stop. On an emtb, you can bump the power and keep going. It provides great endurace building. Some (Spec Levo IIRC) have built in power meters that show what the rider is putting out. This can be really great for training.

Just like reg mtb, you can do interval training, sweet spot and other types. It's a little different, but not much than training on a road bike for mtb racing. (Something I did for a number of years)


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

FJSnoozer said:


> Also, it was not my intention to troll the ebike forum.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:thumbsup:


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

Fajita Dave said:


> I don't have an e-bike and don't plan on getting one anytime soon but your post has been totally debunked for quite a while now.
> 
> Plenty of info showing you people who ride e-bikes build fitness. It's also pretty obvious you can ride them just as hard as a normal mtb but you just go faster. If you put out 300 watts and the bike puts out 250 that's 550 combined. You still put out 300 watts, the bike doesn't take away from that. The great thing is you have the option to slow down and recover fully before you put in the next effort.
> 
> ...


I ride my eBike extensively. You are both right and wrong on the fitness part. It is great for cardio fitness and in that way I push myself even harder on a lot of rides than on my analog bike. From a power perspective you never push as hard on an eBike as a regular bike. There has been a dramatic drop in my power after spending all summer on my eBike even though my hours are high. Just an FYI.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

FJSnoozer said:


> Sounds to me that you just aren't very good at using their technology and are too lazy to open the app and toggle the ride. Your Ebike hours show up in the training log.
> 
> Again, your post shows that you don't understand how to use the premium membership you paid for. Which is fine, don't use it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not sure if you're being obtuse or have poor reading comprehension. I'll assume both and just not bother after this.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Salespunk said:


> I ride my eBike extensively. You are both right and wrong on the fitness part. It is great for cardio fitness and in that way I push myself even harder on a lot of rides than on my analog bike. From a power perspective you never push as hard on an eBike as a regular bike. There has been a dramatic drop in my power after spending all summer on my eBike even though my hours are high. Just an FYI.


"Cardio fitness" and power are the same thing, or, at the very least, are inextricably linked.

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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I agree with Salespunk- I have been riding the ebike a lot and after a few short months, my power is way down. Cardio is good but my power is down, so I am now gettig back on my Yeti to suffer on some long climbs and gain some of that power back. I watch my heart rate carefully on the Yeti, since that is one reason I got the ebike but I have to get back to some suffering on climbs. Oddly (or maybe not so odd) I always post slightly faster times on the fast twisty rocky downhills on the Yeti 4.5 (2.3 tires) than my 27.5+ (3.0 tires) Pivot Shuttle. The lighter weight is an advantage. 

Regarding Strava, I am marking all my e-bike rides as private. I can still see all the segments that way and not mess up the leaderboards at least. I marked some as E-Bike but then I coudl not see my segments. Oh well, I'm not too concerned. I do pay for the premium version. It is rather inexpensive and I like to record all my rides and look for improvement...e-MTB, regular MTB, road, gravel, fat....


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I've been riding my Levo SL exclusivley for about 3 months. Rented the new Evil Following when in Sedona for 4 days. Power was still there, felt fitter than i have been since last riding a non E-bike. Climbing was no problem. Heart rate was definitely about 10 bmp higher on average. Took about 3 minutes to get used to the non assistance. Was one of the stronger riders in our group of 6 who have never ridden an E-bike. 

I do tend to use minimal assistance for the most part when riding my SL.

Love the SL, but there is something about riding a regular bike that I also love. Now looking at getting a short travel XC type 29er to complement the SL, probably the SPez Epic Evo, or maybe the SC Blur TR.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Strava is and always has been stoopid.

The idea that someone would pay for something like Strava is even more stoopid.

What is so hard about just riding your bike and being satisfied? 

Do we really need to quantify and compare ourselves to others?


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> Strava is and always has been stoopid.
> 
> The idea that someone would pay for something like Strava is even more stoopid.
> 
> ...


In your opinion........

.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Do we really need to quantify and compare ourselves to others?


Yes, of course.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Strava is and always has been stoopid.
> 
> The idea that someone would pay for something like Strava is even more stoopid.
> 
> ...


Competition is awesome but of course it isn't for everyone. Riding on its own is satisfying but it doesn't even come close to full filling the excitement of competition. As long as people don't make every ride competitive there's no harm in that. For me Strava has been a great tool for meeting new people to ride with, keep track of my training/hours and mileage on equipment.

Going for Strava KOMs is like "competition light." It's not as exciting as being in an actual race but it adds a bit more substance when I want to crush a downhill as fast as possible. Just don't take it to seriously with GPS errors and people finding ways to cheat. Since we only have two local Enduro races per year it helps fill in the gaps.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Strava is and always has been stoopid.
> 
> The idea that someone would pay for something like Strava is even more stoopid.
> 
> ...


I use it to track my total mileage from a single ride, or from a week/month/year of riding. I love having "mileage" stats for my different bikes. I compare my segments to MYSELF to see if I am improving on my climbing segments.

Do you find any of those things Stoopid? if so please explain why.


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## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

Nurse Ben said:


> Do we really need to quantify and compare ourselves to others?


Who said using Strava had anything to do with other people?


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

Strava just updated their community forum to organize it. Seems like all ideas posted are starting from a clean slate. It would be a great idea to post it now.

https://support.strava.com/hc/en-us/community/topics?mobile_site=false


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