# Is there a cold limit for your Ebike?



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Is it OK to use an Ebike in minus 20? minus 35?
Is the Yamaha, Shimano or other better in the cold?
Thanks.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

since they all use similar li-ion cells, they're going to react similarly to changes in temperature. But I do not know the specific temperatures any individual+bike will experience as it is rarely freezing cold here.

probably won't notice a difference above freezing, 0C or higher

you will see some sagginess in the power relative to how low below 0C it is. will also see less usable capacity with lower temps. I suppose there is a point where performance becomes zero, but I do not know how cold that would be. Rarely gets down to freezing here (because this is Canada, lol, west coast).

If the battery capacity is smaller, then the cells are more likely to warm up if used in Turbo a lot. Just due to the faster chemical reaction inside the cells at higher power levels. In that case, the cells could provide a little more power and capacity. In RC flying in cold temps, we'll keep the lipo batteries warm in our pockets before flight, and then keep the throttle higher to keep the cells warmer in flight.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

The Bosch user manuals show a minimum operational temp of -5'c, a minimum temp of 0'c to charge and a minimum temp of -10'c for storage.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

those numbers are in conflict with what Bosch puts on the website though. They don't really state a minimum temperature and I would personally ride it down to -10C if it was that cold here. Just be mindful to watch the battery level, anticipate the reduced capacity/range and don't overdischarge it.

https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/news/safely-through-the-winter-with-the-ebike/

"The battery is the most sensitive component of the eBike. It can lose capacity at low temperatures, which in turn can limit the bike's range. During winter use with temperatures below zero you are advised to remove the battery, store it at room temperature and replace it on the bike shortly before your next journey. When you return, you should ideally store the battery indoors at temperatures between 15° and 20°C. The same applies to charging the battery: the lithium-ion cells should be charged at room temperature."


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Thanks. Around Montreal-Quebec many offer EFatBikes real heavy, real crappy for snow use. I will keep my fat with 4.8 studded tires, my mountain with 29x2.3 and my idea is to add a 27.5+ Ebike more for spring and autum and park it and charge it in an heated garage. Our next 4 months we have 6 celcius to minus 40, so rain, icy rain, snow.


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## JackWare (Aug 8, 2016)

BCsaltchucker said:


> those numbers are in conflict with what Bosch puts on the website though. They don't really state a minimum temperature and I would personally ride it down to -10C if it was that cold here.


I guess that's the difference between the Bosch Marketing and Technical departments 

Shimano are happy to play in the same temps as you according to their E6000 instructions;


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Usually the rider has limits too.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

My wife's e-cargo bike loses about 50% of it's range as the temperature drops below freezing. It sucks, especially since getting through snow take *more* power. We bought a second battery for it for this reason. 

I've never tried to charge it outdoors so I can't say much about that, but cold and lithium ion batteries is definitely a sucky combination.

-Walt


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## Simonns (Mar 25, 2004)

The lowest temp I have been out in on my commuter ebike was 7*F. Its a Bosch performance line. Definite decrease in range, but only about 10 - 15 miles and maybe a little decrease in power. I do have a neoprene battery cover that seems to help a bit. I also charge the battery in doors.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Battery aside I would be more concerned with the mechanical aspects of the drive reduction unless properly lubricated for low temps. Also subjecting electric motors to low temps from higher temps and back again can cause condensation within that can eventually lead to issues. Doesn't anyone XC ski anymore?


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Stick some adhesive toe warmers on the battery or stuff a few handwarmers under the neoprene cover, if you have one?


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Custom battery parkas...


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## KenPsz (Jan 21, 2007)

Yes there are limits since battery chemistry really does not like cold or hot batteries are like goldie locks.

This video has some good suggestions.


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## Giant Warp (Jun 11, 2009)

"The data on that MIG is incorrect" LOL

So my experience in the cold is 100% opposite of all the posts so far and actually refutes most of them, but I ride a Levo. 

First, my bike rides inside my SUV to the trailhead. My bike starts warm and maintains warmth. If your bike is transported on the back of your vehicle, then yeah, performance may suffer.

Second, the Levo stores the battery inside the frame. It generates heat when in use so it stays at what I believe is an optimum temperature when in use during the winter. This can be verified with the Mission Control app which lets the rider monitor the battery and motor temp.


Third, the motor is inside the frame and maintains heat when in use. This can also be monitored with the app. 


I have nothing but praise to offer for winter performance on the Levo. Bar mitts are a must when cold because the ebike is going to generate more wind, of course. Even if the Levo started out cold, it would quickly warm up. My winter performance is close to summer performance and sometimes it feels like it has more low end torque. I've climbed ice hills with studded tires and the performance seemed to defy the laws of physics. During summer riding, the Levo gets hot and derates. The derate doubles riding distance. During winter riding there is no derate, the battery and motor stay warm and torque is possibly better. It really defies all known norms for battery vs cold. For instance, my Gopro doesn't work below certain temps, my bike computer stops working when cold, my cell phone doesn't like cold, my lights don't like cold. However, my ebike rocks in the cold. I've seen threads where fatties were talking about insulating their batteries. Not so with the Levo. Cheers


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## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

Been using my fat-e bosch in temps as low as -35c. Bike has performed flawlessly in those temps. (Two seasons) Only issue was free hub, solved by Onyx. And a second battery added, as range does suffer, I would say 20-25%. Covers on both batteries, not sure if it helps or not.
Other than accounting for temperature changes in tires, and suspension, and adjusting, winter riding is the best!


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

I solved the cold battery issue and a few other as well. I built a leather covered blanket around the battery with Nickle Chrome 20 gauge wire sewn in. I also did handle bar grips and a saddle cover. They are all hooked in series and I run it off the main battery through a pulse frequency modulator/ thermocouple type setup. Battery is toasty warm, my hands are toasty warm and my ass is toasty warm. I prolly could split the battery from the hands and buns. The battery does not need to be quite as toasty warm and my hands and buns. Bought 15-22 watts total.
Before that I used the chemical heat packs under a cover.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

PierreR said:


> I solved the cold battery issue and a few other as well. I built a leather covered blanket around the battery with Nickle Chrome 20 gauge wire sewn in. I also did handle bar grips and a saddle cover. They are all hooked in series and I run it off the main battery through a pulse frequency modulator/ thermocouple type setup. Battery is toasty warm, my hands are toasty warm and my ass is toasty warm. I prolly could split the battery from the hands and buns. The battery does not need to be quite as toasty warm and my hands and buns. Bought 15-22 watts total.
> Before that I used the chemical heat packs under a cover.


I'm thinking you may have a career in this if you don't like your current one. I'd definitely pay for this set up.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

PierreR said:


> I solved the cold battery issue and a few other as well. I built a leather covered blanket around the battery with Nickle Chrome 20 gauge wire sewn in. I also did handle bar grips and a saddle cover. They are all hooked in series and I run it off the main battery through a pulse frequency modulator/ thermocouple type setup. Battery is toasty warm, my hands are toasty warm and my ass is toasty warm. I prolly could split the battery from the hands and buns. The battery does not need to be quite as toasty warm and my hands and buns. Bought 15-22 watts total.
> Before that I used the chemical heat packs under a cover.


Genius. Yes, lithium batteries lose about 40% of their range capacity below freezing. This is a known thing with GoPro batteries and Tesla cars too. The good news is the decrease in range/capacity is only temporary and will return when normal temps return.

A common workaround is battery warmers and some systems even use the battery itself to warm the battery. Pays off a little bit. Ebikes don't do this yet.

Lithium batteries now are so small and efficient that it'd be cool to have some heated jackets and gloves for options. Can use the ebike battery, but even separate ones should be good too.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Genius. Yes, lithium batteries lose about 40% of their range capacity below freezing. This is a known thing with GoPro batteries and Tesla cars too. The good news is the decrease in range/capacity is only temporary and will return when normal temps return.
> 
> A common workaround is battery warmers and some systems even use the battery itself to warm the battery. Pays off a little bit. Ebikes don't do this yet.
> 
> Lithium batteries now are so small and efficient that it'd be cool to have some heated jackets and gloves for options. Can use the ebike battery, but even separate ones should be good too.


My daughter and I have heated socks. $100 CDN at Costco. Work beautifully. The heated gloves I have seen are too bulky. We use pogies instead.

As for temp limits on the e-bikes, no impact (yet) on my 2 Bigfoots storing and charging them in an unheated garage and riding them through a Canadian winter. Nothing but epic times so far.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Genius. Yes, lithium batteries lose about 40% of their range capacity below freezing. This is a known thing with GoPro batteries and Tesla cars too. The good news is the decrease in range/capacity is only temporary and will return when normal temps return.


I pretty much did it the same way that car seat heaters work. I am a master of all aspects of machinery and manufacturing so an e bike is a piece of cake.
Currently looking at building what I consider at this time to be the ultimate bikepack, dirt touring e bike. A titanium fat cargo with Shimano or Bafang M series drive, Rohloff gears, 475 lb GVWR and 350 mile range. I'm even dumb enough to consider adding climate control for cold and hot weather. Still has to meet the standards for an e bike on weight and power.
Climate control would be 48V reverse cycle polyethylene glycol to cool or heat the drive system, the battery, the saddle, the bars and a vest worn by me. To hell with worrying about overheating or freezing anything including me. System would add about 8 lband 100W max draw. But battery is on the order of 3,500-4,000Wh


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## Stepon (Jan 13, 2021)

I have to keep my bike outdoors (under bike cover) and I've noted that my E8000 motor will not engage when the bike temperature is below -5C. The crank just spins without engaging the chain ring. 
Warm up the motor housing a bit with a hair drier and it engages, but can (and did) disengage after 10-15 minutes of riding at this temperature..
Shimano does not publish a motor operating temperature in any of their documentation and their technical support via dealer had no comment on the issue......
For now I use a small 20 Watt heating pad to keep the chill off, and just wait and hope for spring or as few of these minus 0 days as possible.

22,000kms on the motor to date and other than this issue, one reset of odometer back to zero, and the odd hiccup, it's been rock solid.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I just go up 7 stairs with my EGiant and bring it inside with the 500 studs. Sofar so good.


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