# 20/24 wheels, discs front and back, does this exist?



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Lately I've been thinking about buying a new toy. I want something with smaller wheels than 26. 24 looks tempting but 20 would be even nicer. I want the bike to stand up to whatever I can throw at it in a city. It will never see any type of park or the woods for that matter. But pavement.

Now I have to be able to actually ride it to whereever I'm going so a bmx is kinda out of the question since then I would need like a 2.5 meter seatpost. Aslo they have crap brakes in the rear and no brake at all in the front usually.

Basically I want something rigid, and really solid and beefy/unflexible in the front, must be steel of course. I don't want to feel any flex at all from the front. I have a 425 a-c salsa cromoto right now on one bike and its just not confidence inspiring at all, it flexes all over the place when I brake. I find it dangerous for everything except commuting. But maybe I should break it first to find out how tough it really is before complaining.. So I guess I want a much shorter fork. Shorter = mucho less flex right.

Also I want discs in the front and discs in the rear. Can't go back to rimbrakes or no brakes.

And a RD hanger

20 or 24 inch wheels

And like a 12ish or longer seat tube so I can run some type of telescopic post in there.


I have considered black market bikes and ns bikes. And maybe have someone weld a disc mount on the forks. How does those bikes work with 24 inch wheels? I can have a slacker ht when running a short fork on the black markets. And this is probably what I would prefer at at the moment.

Is there anything that uses 20 inch wheels? This would be nicer I think.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Check out some of the offerings from Tonic:
Tonic Fabrication -- TONIC FAB

Looks like the Howie would be perfect for you. Disc tabs in the back and can handle a lowered suspension fork (or rigid fork).

Look for thru-axle forks, like the Identiti 14/20 fork or the DMR Trailblade. Rigid with a TA has to be stiff.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Those looks nice.

Anyway I think I might have to go custom since the bike will be a non standardized type of bike, and I have quite odd requests. Probably gonna have this guy do it STOUT: Custom Frames fork too is he makes it.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

Hit up standard bikes, also look in to 22" wheels


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

22 inch wheels?? I have never even heard of that size, but is seems like a good middlepoint of 24 and 20. Now when I think about it I would like a 24 in the rear and a 20 up front. The 24 to get a normalish gearing so I don't have to run a 55 or so up front lol, remember I want the bike to be geared and also take me there. In a somewhat efficient fashion.

Standard bikes, gonna look it up.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Is it a weird thing to do? 24 in the rear and a 20 up front? I mean I have to get to places right, in a timely fashion, then I can't use a 20 in the rear, because I would have to emply a 50+ chainring just to get moving. and that would give me a chainring that rests on the ground or really close to it.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

You're handling would be way too weird-you'd have either a chopper bike or a clown bike if you ran 24 rear 20 front. Probably the flip side too. 24 rear and 26 front were common for a few years. I'd consider 22 rear 24 front. For the rest of what you're talking about it sounds like a trials bike. Lots of 20 and 24 disc wheels and 20 and 24 frames with RD hangers.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I have been looking at trials bikes too, I actually started there, then it went to bmx, and then to dirtjump. the problem with trials bikes is that they don't have saddles at all, which is a problem for me.

I probably gonna have a frame built up specially for this. I want like a swiss army frame, jumps and trials and actually going there. But no racing of any kind and no parks and ramps. Yeah well for me its a general purpose non mtb non 26 frame.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

Azonic Steelhead?

I'd almost suggest a 2000-2005 Santa Cruz Chameleon, great do it all bike. Go a size smaller than normal and it'll fit well for urban riding. Will handle really sharp with a 410mm fork, a little more normal with a 440mm fork like a Surly Instigator. Handles great with an 80-100mm suspension fork.

I love my Chameleon for everything. Rigid SS with a 410mm fork, handled like a track bike but very zen for descending. 140mm fork with burly build for long travel trail riding. Now it's got a 100mm fork and a slalom/dirt jump setup and occasionally gets a long seatpost and cruiser saddle for riding to the bar. 

If you're not trying to throw 360s everywhere or do any kind of spin tricks, go with a 26. It'll pedal easier around town and you might not have to get a custom frame.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

car bone said:


> I have been looking at trials bikes too, I actually started there, then it went to bmx, and then to dirtjump. the problem with trials bikes is that they don't have saddles at all, which is a problem for me.
> 
> I probably gonna have a frame built up specially for this. I want like a swiss army frame, jumps and trials and actually going there. But no racing of any kind and no parks and ramps. Yeah well for me its a general purpose non mtb non 26 frame.


I might suggest looking at "Street Trials" bikes. They have seats and come in 24" (most common) and 26" varieties and many come with RD hangers. Brake mounts vary for hydro rim and disc.

It's the kind of bike Danny Macaskill rides.

You could also look at mid school trials bikes which have more the geo of a DJ bike.

Look at observedtrials.net for more info/ideas like in their classifieds. You could probably convert one to your wants.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

larger rear wheel than front.... 








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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> larger rear wheel than front....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And the worst part about it that it think its actually a 20 up front an a 24 in the rear. God damn it looks retarded.

Maybe I'll should just go for 2 wheels in the rear and one up front and a wire basket. 

20 in the front and rear seems more and more appealing to me at least the more I think about it. A 20 that handles like a fullsize bike.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

jmmorath said:


> I might suggest looking at "Street Trials" bikes. They have seats and come in 24" (most common) and 26" varieties and many come with RD hangers. Brake mounts vary for hydro rim and disc.
> 
> It's the kind of bike Danny Macaskill rides.
> 
> ...


The trials community seems to have settled on alu, and I don't particulary like alu. But at least the street/bmx/dj/whatever not really mtb or road makers seems to be able to make whatever I want and that without costing an arm and a leg.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

GTscoob said:


> Azonic Steelhead?
> 
> I'd almost suggest a 2000-2005 Santa Cruz Chameleon, great do it all bike. Go a size smaller than normal and it'll fit well for urban riding. Will handle really sharp with a 410mm fork, a little more normal with a 440mm fork like a Surly Instigator. Handles great with an 80-100mm suspension fork.
> 
> ...


I'm gonna look these up. These seems to be very adaptable to different types of riding.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

car bone said:


> ...I can't use a 20 in the rear, because I would have to emply a 50+ chainring just to get moving...


i'd love to watch you try to pedal a 50+/9 gear combo. that would be straight comedy. apparently you haven't looked at a bmx bike in well over 30 years. they don't all rock a 16T or 18t freewheel anymore...


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

No but the wheels circumference is still a lot smaller than a 24 or 26, so the front ring has to accordingly larger in % if i want to pedal just as fast for the same speed. But I need gears so I have pretty much moved away from pure bmx stuff since its 110mm in the rear. I need 135 in the rear. And a hanger. And by going cassette hub 135 in the rear the 9t cog option disappears since 11 is now the smallest possible cog.

As I said this will the a multitool type of bike, so I need gears and the gearing to get to places.
probably gonna put a schlumpfdrive in the front to get the 1.65:1 gearing from the cranks.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

car bone said:


> No but the wheels circumference is still a lot smaller than a 24 or 26, so the front ring has to accordingly larger in % if i want to pedal just as fast for the same speed. But I need gears so I have pretty much moved away from pure bmx stuff since its 110mm in the rear. I need 135 in the rear. And a hanger. And by going cassette hub 135 in the rear the 9t cog option disappears since 11 is now the smallest possible cog.
> 
> As I said this will the a multitool type of bike, so I need gears and the gearing to get to places.
> probably gonna put a schlumpfdrive in the front to get the 1.65:1 gearing from the cranks.


you're a fountain of knowledge!
now I know about schlumpf drive.

Utah Trikes Reviews - Accessory - Schlumpf High Speed Drive


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

If you look up their site they have some pdfs on there, and those explain everything. They have 2.5:1 1:2.5 and 1.65:1 from what I understand. Supposedly their stuff works both with ICGS or whatever its called and without anything. And supposedly their stuff is a lot better than the FSA/hammerschmidt crap. And you can pretty much have whatever front ring you want. And whatever BB axle length you want. Giving you whatever you want chainline. I at least see the possiblities this product provides. Its a problem solver for small wheels.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

car bone said:


> .... I at least see the possiblities this product provides. Its a problem solver for small wheels.


45/9 on 20" wheels is a whopping 100 gear inches. . . .


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I was thinking something like 30 up front and a schlumpfdrive would give me something similar to what I run now as the highest gear on my 1x9 26er (36x11) with a wheel diameter of 650ish mm. Or close to it at least. since you get 30x1.65 and the wheel size going from 26 to 20 is like 0.77 or the 26 being 1.28 times larger. I don't know exactly how big diameter a 20x2.25 or so tire is in circumference so I just winged it based on the rim erto of 407mm.

But a top gear of 36x11 works good on my current bike so I'd like the same gear inches on an eventual 20.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

car bone said:


> ...by going cassette hub 135 in the rear the 9t cog option disappears since 11 is now the smallest possible cog...


there is aways this option...










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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

650mm / 25,4 = 25,59 inches diameter
36/11=3,27 and to be honest I'd like a 39 up front.
25,6x3,27=83,7 gear inches.

If I could have slightly lower than 90 in the highest gear I'd be happy. But not lower than 83,7 preferably.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> there is aways this option...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This one is new for me. When I first saw it it looked like it would take 3-4 cogs and not a whole cassette, but now it turns out it looks like that because it takes smaller cogs. Its kinda clever actually.

Yeah even more alternatives. I feel this will be an easily built bike now. But maybe slightly odd.


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