# Spoke Count vs Rider Weight



## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

Helping a friend out. 

I have zero experience with 36-spoke wheels. Even though I'm 200lb, I've ran 28 / 32 spokes with no problem since the 1990s.

Riding buddy of mine finally wants to build up his own bike. He's concerned about wheel durability b/c he's popped a spoke once. Do you have any 36-spoke recommendations for a 142mm hub / rim tubeless ready combo that won't brake the bank?

Thanks


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## Whacked (Sep 29, 2008)

always used 32 spokes, even when I weighed 320lbs
'course I pretty much kept my wheels planted.

Only spokes I have busted was on a road bike I had laced up with double butted spokes.
dinged a few rims curb-hopping but that wheel was the only one I have broken spokes on.

So I would rule double butted spokes out.

sorry can't be much more help


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

Actually that's great help. I already mentioned that straight gauge 32-hole is probably fine. But your first hand account means more than my guess.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

It's more about quality of spokes than double butted. Cheap double butted are worse than good straight gauge. But that's because they're cheap metal. Spokes break at the J-bend because they only have so many flex/relax cycles in them. It's steel after all. Once you exceed that, they start breaking. Just like bending a coat hanger. First couple times, it's fine. After that, it starts getting hard to bend and suddenly it will break. To help prevent this flex/relax cycle from occurring, you want them to be in a flex/flex cycle (meaning constantly under tension). Best way to do that is by having the spokes properly tensioned and stretched to start with. Butted spokes stretch a little more than straight gauge when under the same tension. If spokes are breaking in the middle or near the nipples, that's from scrapes and knocks on the trail, and no spoke will survive that.

Spoke options:
Straight 2.0 gauge. Work well. Classic. Normally used on cheap bikes because they're cheap to make. Doesn't make them worse or better, just heavier.
Butted 2.0/1.8.20 gauge. Give a little stretch in the center that helps prevent loading and unloading of spokes when big guys take big jumps. Weight loss is there, but not really noticed under clyde duty.
Alpine butted: 2.3/1.8/2.0. skinny center section of spoke plus an extra strong j-bend. Not all hubs are compatible with alpine butted spokes though because of the extra thick J-bend. They also cost a lot more.

IMO, DT swiss or Sapim race 2.0/1.8/2.0 butted spokes with brass nipples laced in a 32x pattern are almost bulletproof under most clydes. A lot has to do with the initial wheel build also. A mile on a badly built wheel does just as much damage as a couple thousand on a well built wheel. Get it built right the first time, make sure tension is good, ride it, make sure tension is good, ride it, make sure tension is good.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Don't rule out double-butted, they're fine.
32 hole makes the most sense on anything where rider weight in pounds starts with a '2', although a 28/32 is really just fine for anything but gravity-plow type stuff.

What matters is doing spoke tension correctly, and actually keeping the rim somewhat true if any impacts happen. There are plenty of good burly options in 32h that will more than work (Stan's Flow, SunRingle Helix29 or MTX-33, Easton Arc30, DT Swiss 481, WTB ST i25 or Frequency i25), and running proper tension on the spokes will make them work extremely well. If there isn't enough spoke tension, curb-hopping can destroy it because a de-tensioned spoke will fatigue really quickly - with good spoke tension, it's trivial.

The most clyde-proof wheels within reason are going to be a good durable rim, 14/15/14ga double butted spokes (2.0/1.8/2.0mm), brass nipples, and a sound wheel build on a durable hub (i.e. one that doesn't have freehub implosions under load). Following that formula, 32/32 spoke wheels are more than adequate, up to 275lb riders for all mountain use.


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## mark! (Jun 1, 2012)

I've been running Stan's Flow EX, 36H with 14G spokes on Hope steel hubs and haven't had any issues. I don't always keep my wheels on the ground. I've gained some weight recently so here lately I'm more careful, but once I'm back down to about 310 I'll be more relaxed and adventurous.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I only run double butted and I have never broken a spoke. DT Swiss comps. I weigh 270 and as high as 320. I also roll on 32h wheels and never a problem. 

Except my current road/gravel bike. It is actually currently on 24h rims with bladed spokes. 1000 miles and not a bit of trouble. 

My newest wheels I picked up yesterday from my builder are Hope hubs laced to WTB Frequency Team i23 rims. 32h. They are for my gravel bike. 

Quality parts, hand build by someone that knows what they are doing...and your buddy will be fine. 

Mike Curiak is one of the premier wheel builders and he built a wheelset for me when I was 320 pounds and he recommended DT Swiss Comp 2.0/1.8/2.0 double butted spokes. 

Again...on my third wheel set using double butted spokes and not a single break. But then again...I don't run around bashing my bike into concrete curbs either.

How heavy is your buddy by the way?


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

If the wheel and hub I wanted were available in 36 spokes, I would opt for it if I were over 200 lbs. But if not, then I would get 32.

What is the advantage of 32 over 36? There is no air drag issue at MTB speeds, and if you are concerned about weight, then it is easier to lose it off your body.


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

rsilvers said:


> ...and if you are concerned about weight, then it is easier to lose it off your body.


Are you saying I'm fat? Because I am.

I doubt the issue is anything against 36H, it's just overkill for most riders. Especially at only 200lbs. It's also getting harder to find 36H hubs and wheels that are high quality and don't cost $$$$. You can get lots of 32H hubs that only cost $$.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I chuckle when when people think being 200lbs considers you a Clyde. I've ranged from well over 300lbs when I got back into riding, down to 262, back up to 298 after a long injury recovery and down to 275ish now.

32h on every set of wheels.

Only wheels I had problem with were stock issue wheels that came with my 29er, the set that replaced them till I did research on wheel builds and realized they were machine built like ****.

32h wheels now with straight gauge, beat the hell outta them these days, not a single issue. This wheel set I built myself with all quality parts (though I don't have a higher end hub). Survived things people here said they shouldn't under my weight.

It's all about using quality (doesn't mean big bucks, just proper quality) and wheels being hand built properly.

Hell I just put a down payment on a road bike, first thing that's happening when I bring it home is wheels are coming off, new grease in hubs and checking the wheel build thoroughly. So they at least hold up till I decide how much road riding I'll be doing and if it justifies building a wheel set for it.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## phattruth (Apr 22, 2012)

The equation changes a bit with carbon rims. They're so strong and stiff that fewer spokes are required for the same strength as an aluminum rim. That being said I'd still stick with 32 hole rims if over 200lbs, but just pick lighter gauge spokes if going carbon.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I don't think 200 lbs makes someone a Clyde. Over 100 kg/220 lbs does.

As for the number of spokes, I suppose it depends if you do dropoffs or not. 

I am becoming a fan of more spokes. My road wheels have 16 up front and it concerns me about it going out of wack if I hit a pothole.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Good parts. Good builder. 32h is plenty except maybe on a DH bike or for someone hucking off huge drops.

Don't cheap out on spokes. Go DT Swiss or Sapim. They are proven. Straight or butted. Both are fine.

There's enough experience here from heavy riders to prove 32h are enough for most of us.

And no...a 200 pound rider isn't heavy and certainly not heavy enough to warrant any special considerations for bike parts.


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## OmaHaq (Jun 1, 2010)

Thanks gents! Appreciated!


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

watts888 said:


> Are you saying I'm fat? Because I am.





rsilvers said:


> I don't think 200 lbs makes someone a Clyde. Over 100 kg/220 lbs does.


Yep, he said I'm fat.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

Nubster said:


> Good parts. Good builder. 32h is plenty except maybe on a DH bike or for someone hucking off huge drops.


people always say that, yet look at downhill wheels. I don't think I've ever seen one with more than 32. I don't think I've ever seen a DH hub with more than 32 holes.

Fact is 36 spokes date back to steel or wood rims that were nowhere near as strong as today's Al or carbon. If you're breaking spokes on a 32 spoke wheel, you'd break spokes on a 36 [from the same builder with the same parts].
That's not to say there's a problem with 36 spokes; I don't really see a downside to more spokes, just parts availability (say you do manage to trash a rim; you'll be waiting longer for a new 36' version than you would for a 32).

Factors that influence spoke breakage:
1: wheel build/builder
2: wheel builder
3: wheel builder
4: ...
10: quality of spokes

100% of spokes I've broken in the last 2.5 decades of clyde mtbing were straight guage. I've never broken a butted spoke. I'm not the slightest bit shy about getting off the ground or... what I like to call 'momentum-based' (as opposed to finesse or skill-based) riding.


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## Rob_E (Nov 22, 2010)

Just one more voice of agreement. I will get 36 when it's available because why not? I'm not going to sweat the weight of 4 spokes when there's 200+ lbs of rider in the mix. But when a nice set of rims came my way at a really good price, and those rims were 32h, I grabbed them, built them up, and have been riding them for months. I used decent spokes, and I think at least one wheel was double butted. I always get double-butted when possible, but with 26" (and smaller) rims and the hub gears and dynamo hubs I usually run, I sometimes can't find double-butted in the short spoke size I need. In that case, I have no qualms about using straight gauge.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

Mainstream stuff is 32h, but most of us don't fit the mainstream model. Hubs/wheels will be harder to find in 36h, but that doesn't mean its not a good choice. 

I really want to upgrade to carbon from my flowEX, but all 36h carbon wheels are special order.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

200 pounds is a long ways off for me and I build all my wheels 32 spoke, double butted spokes. I weigh about 260. No problems. 

If the wheels are built properly with quality parts, 32 is fine.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

A number of my friends run 28 spoke wheels (up to 200-220 lb riders) and have no issues. I prefer 32 because if you happen to snap a nipple, lose tension from a branch/rock snag or break a spoke, the wheel does not go out of true nearly as much. I've seen a few racers over the years finish events with two spokes out on one 32h wheel... 

I have one set of wheels with straight spokes (aluminum hoops with brass nipples) and all the rest are butted either DT Swiss or Wheelsmith (Sapim are also excellent- just never built a wheel set with them).


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## bigpat (Jul 24, 2016)

5'11" 320 and reducing to 260, with the calves to prove it.lol

getting back in to serious biking.. need recommendations for a new bike ($500-$700)


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