# What light do you use? HID, Halogen, etc...



## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

From the Kmart 7$ bell, to $600 HID dual beams... what gets you the most bang for the buck? I hear goods and bads on nightrider stuff, though who knows whats actually true or not.

Also, who has done the DIY HID kits and had good luck with them? What light, what battery? Is it better or worse than simply forking over a morgage payment for the straight up nightrider?


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## 1440Brad (Apr 26, 2006)

*Go HID*

I do most of my night riding with a Night Hawk Halogen helmet mount. It works great, with a 2 1/2 hour burn time.
At the last 24hr race, I rode on the LBS team. They supplied mechanics, food, and lights.
For the first time I rode with a Night Rider HID helmet mount. All I can say is WOW!! 
It was like riding in daylight. I passed a guy about 5 minutes into my lap, and he says"I can think of better thingst to do at 2 oclock in the morning." I thought to myself, "ya, it is 2AM." With the HID lamp, I did not realize what time it was.My night lap time was less than 1 minute from my day lap.
If you can spare the cash, buy the HID. The only problem is that I don't want to ride with my Night Hawk halogen any more. 
Now I'm spoiled.


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

haha... I hear that. My buddy runs a night rider HID and its hella bright. Probably what I'll go with.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

I went with a 15W halogen system. I don't race, so I went with was gives me enough burn time, light and didn't break the bank.


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

Have you ridden the halogen with someone who has an HID? I'd like to know how big of a difference it really is.


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## pahearn (Feb 17, 2006)

FWIW, you might get more answers in the "GPS, Lighting and Computer" forum.

-pete


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## Cabin Fever (Jan 23, 2004)

There's no contest. Unless you have some huge stadium halogen light hooked up to a generator that you're towing behind on a BOB trailer, the HID is going to blow it away. You don't even need more than one light - one on the helmet is all you need, and you'll be able to see "ur-thing." I use my Niterider Storm for both 12/24 hour racing, and also commuting, and when I'm commuting, I'm fairly certain that I'm mistaken for being another car. Preriding a course with a teammate who had a useless old halogen, he was able to see only when he was right on my tail, because of my headlight.

Headlights are like bibs/shorts - it's worth paying the extra money, as you don't even know just HOW much brighter it is until you use one. And I'm not some paid promotor for Niterider - Topeak, Light and Motion both make great HIDs. just get one. now.


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

Thanks guys.. i'll probalby be going HID!


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## pagey (Sep 26, 2006)

what about LED?

chers
Pagey


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## Eric Hoefer (Jan 19, 2004)

I made a DIY system with good results, its not as pretty as a professional kit but it gets the job done. I did a 15W bulb with 9.6V 3000MAh NiMh battery that I got dirt cheap made for an airsoft gun off of Ebay and I also had a spare 9.6V 1000MAh Ni-Cd battery laying around as a backup. I took the mirror/bulb fixture used for outdoor lighting housed it in a rubber pipe coupling found at home depot. The glass is from an old broken Flashlight and the tail of the light is just some PVC endcap with holes drilled in it for wires. I used RC car wires so no modification to the battery was needed. The light is mounted with metal Pipe Clamps to one side of the bar while the battery is mounted to the other side of the bar via zip ties holding it to a reflector mount. For a switch I got a cheap 50 cent on off switch from radioshack and mounted it into a lib balm can and filled it with epoxy to hold it still. The light does add some noticeable weight to the front end of the bike but its very managable. One could run the wiring down the frame into a battery that fits into a waterbottle but I havent gotten around to that yet. All in all it cost me about 40-50 dollars in parts and the main battery lasts for about 100 min and the spare gives me about 35-40 min and the light is plenty bright enough to light up the trail to see whats up ahead. Heres a pic to show you what I did:


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## runhuskyrun (Jul 13, 2006)

just got the nightrider hid for 270, its incredible and lasts 4 hours. i love the white light. my dog wears a 10 dollar walmart headlamp light that fits her perfectly, she keeps me from getting creeped out in the middle of the woods.. the enduro model of nightriders hid is the same as the more expensive helmet mount system they have except the charger takes an hour longer to charge. now im looking for a helmet specifically for nightriding, my specialized helmet moves around to much with the light. anyone found a helmet that works great with light, little movement, comfy


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

thanks for the good info there... I've done the DIY HID kit from batteryspace.com. we'll c how it works out.


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## brassnipples (Feb 26, 2006)

I dunno about the HID thing. Sure, there's no denying that they are way bright but they kinda wash everything out. I prefer the light that a halogen puts out.

More than that though, what's the point of riding at night if you can see just like it's day time? Only seeing what what you really need to see adds a fun element to the ride, something that can't be had during the day or with 18 jiggawatts of candlepower.

I personally ride with 10-15 watts on the helmet in a spot beam and a 10-15 watt flood on the bar, both halogen. This gives plenty of light to ride at full or very near full speed on familiar trails or a 24 hour course you've already seen on previous laps, but not a lot more.


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

I see what you are saying... but as far as actual night riding goes, there is more that I enjoy than just trying to 'see' at night. Where I mostly ride, you can run till midnight. So blowing down a single track, 10-11pm, pitch black, still silent is a totally awesome experience. The light factor I see as being safe. I was borrowing a halogen nightrider and it was just ok. I definitly saw the need to up the candle power and actually purchase something of my own


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## Nick Martin (Jun 17, 2006)

I run two Light and Motion Arc Li-ion HID's at night. Superbly bright with up to 6hrs run time. Ive not used or seen anything better. Stick on a helmet mounted LED as well and night becomes day and you can fly about just as fast as in the daytime


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## KERKOVEJ (Jan 23, 2004)

Bike industry is heading towards LED....infact, so is the auto industry.
HID is good, but will eventually burn out and is f'n $$$$$$.
LED is not a bulb so the life span is 10 times greater than your personal life.

I have helped test and develope Cateye's new LED lights for the last 4 years through 24 hour racing. Expect great things out of LED from CatEye and other players in the bicycle light industry.

Just something to keep in mind when shopping for lights.


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## jdp526 (Apr 21, 2006)

I bought the Trail Tech MR11 helmet-mount 13w HID, https://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1395 and used it for the first time last week. Light is extremely bright for its size. I have it set up to use on either helmet or handlebar. I was in a hurry to set it up on bar and the Cateye mount I used is too small for oversize bar so I will probably find another mount.


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## K'Endo (Dec 23, 2003)

A 15W Halogen is plenty bright. I run two, one on my helmet and a second on the bars but the one on the bars isn't really needed, just nice to have.

HID is annoying. It's too bright and if I'm ahead of someone with HID it washes everything out (except my own shadow). And when the ride stops, they look straight at me and burn out my retinas. I hate the damn things.

Kn.


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

K'Endo said:


> And when the ride stops, they look straight at me and burn out my retinas.
> Kn.


ROFL!!! I feel ya there. If i happen to be ahead of my buddy and turn around, its like the gates of heaven just opened up.

I can't really see LED taking over HID for a while now. I have seen a lot of improvement over time (since I own and operate a automotive performance repair business), but right now HID is number one for a while.

Along with that, HID kits have come WAY down from where they used to be. I remember if you wanted to add HID to your average automobile, you were spending over a grand. Now, kits are more compact and down as low as 399. Like anything, the technology continues to improve, driving cost down.


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## Bluebug32 (Jan 13, 2006)

just got a Ligh and Motion Arc for $280. I was so excited to find it at that price and can't wait to take it on its maiden voyage. I'll have to remember to look down and spare some retinas! Isn't this a good thing during a night race, though? You could just look back and knock out the competition!


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## Nick Martin (Jun 17, 2006)

I run at night with three lights. 2 x L&M Arc-Lion HID's and an LED headtorch.
I like to ride as fast, and as far at night as during the day. Safety plays a big part as well.

Anyway heres a photo to show the output a little.

Its a 30ft stretch of garden shown, but the light is still strong at 50ft!










Nick


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## sonyisdope (Jul 24, 2004)

Get the Cateye DoubleShot! I love it! Yes, it is not as bright as an HID. I also ride with Topeak Moonshine HID sometimes, but I prefer the throw of the Cateye DoubleShot, and nothing tops a 5 hour battery life that only takes 3 to charge!


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## gearhead313 (Aug 21, 2006)

Well, I ended up going balls out. Purchased the Trail tech 30w HID kit from batteryspace.com. Same light as this guy reviewed:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=234429

Went on the first ride with it yesterday and I'll tell you what, it is retarded how bright it is. My buddy I rode with rocks the top end nightrider 15w HID and this light as listed is twice the wattage...and is definitly twice the light.

The only down side i'd say is that the fixture is MASSIVE. I haven't had a chance to weigh the setup yet, but its a biggie. Definitly not for everyone. I would say that you should stick to regular XC riding and stay unconcerned about the weight it adds.

All in all, i'm pretty happy. Its probably the most light you can put on an mtb period. With cost under $350, if you want daylight, this will deliver!


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

gearhead313 said:


> From the Kmart 7$ bell, to $600 HID dual beams... what gets you the most bang for the buck? I hear goods and bads on nightrider stuff, though who knows whats actually true or not.
> 
> Also, who has done the DIY HID kits and had good luck with them? What light, what battery? Is it better or worse than simply forking over a morgage payment for the straight up nightrider?


Bang for buck, as others have said, probably the 13w Trail Tech HID. Five years ago I needed a light system for me and one for my wife. HIDs weren't available and the halogen systems were too expensive. I ended up with over-volted (14.4v) 12v, MR-16s, 20 watts, 7.2 v 3300 mAH NiMH packs wired in series, bulbs housed in Trailhead carbon fiber housings. I bought two Radio Shack 23-440 chargers ($15 per). Total cost for both lights including chargers and battery packs was less than $200. Since then I've added three Night Hawk Nomads, two of which were converted to 12V, and four more battery packs from battery space. Total cost for everything (5 light systems) was about $400.00. I've converted a few friends to night riding because I had the extra systems for them to use. All of them have found the DIY route fun and we've built the systems using the Nomads as the foundation. However, I'm trying to convince a moocher-riding buddy to drop $230 on the Trail Tech HID as stop using my extra light(s).:madman:

Two nights ago I finally did a side by side with a L&M 13.5 watt HID against my 20% over-volted 20 watt MR16 (GE bulb, 15 degree spread). I am happy to report that the HID's only advantage was a higher color temp and (of course, much longer burn time too). The HID owner said he paid $400 for the L&M from a LBS. He was super impressed with the obnoxious amount my halogen put out. My wife's MR16 uses a 24 degree Ushio bulb. The 24 degree (narrow flood) bulb has a similar spread to the HID. The halogen comes with a sacrifice, as I can not ride more than 1 hr 40 minutes with the 3300 mAH batteries, unless I use two light and switch between them. For that reason, the reasonably priced Trail Tech would be my choice today.:thumbsup:


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## miamimitch (Oct 7, 2005)

Unless you are racing I would have to give the current new generation LED's some due credit.

I have the Cygo Dual Cross LED system and it puts out a bright and well focused white light. A run time is listed for 4 hours on high but so far have not had a night ride over 3 hours to test that.

I liked the fact that LED's are almost bomb proof and should never burn out or break.


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

> Unless you are racing I would have to give the current new generation LED's some due credit.


Why so? Racing is where most of the LED systems on the market are in their element. Low weight, long burn times and bombproof reliability. :thumbsup:

Welcome to MTBR *miamimitch*!

Cheers, Dave


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## miamimitch (Oct 7, 2005)

You got a good point.


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## ZenZhu (Nov 11, 2006)

I don't have a handlebar light yet, but I use my Princeton Tec headlamp with a velcro strap on my helmet. I got it at REI for $40.. or $48.. I forget. I plan on getting one to set on the handlebars so I can have one consistently pointed forward and one that illuminates where I'm looking.


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## grumbles2 (Dec 9, 2006)

*Homemade Hid Set up*

I use a 35 watt HID bulb and light assembly that puts out over 3200 lumens, helmet mounted. Light pattern looks like daylight 75 feet wide and approx 300 feet deep. Burn time is 1.5 to 2.5 depending on how much battery weight I want to carry. Its heavy because I use 12 volt 8.0 amp hour lead acid batteries in my back pack. The batteries are heavy (7lbs) but only cost $20. I could loose 5 lbs for about $150 at this point the heavy cheap battery is fine. I use this bulb.









This is an example of the light pattern, for scale the drum in the picture is 48 inches tall.










Here is the helmet setup, I know its large. I am not racing and am not worried about weight so it works great for me.










Here is the back pack setup.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Hello, I'm Spanish biker, sorry but my bad english.

This is my first message, greetings to all.

The light that I use is my home made light, I called it N5.




























Greetings

msxtr


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## Low_Rider (Jan 15, 2004)

Welcome to MTBR *msxtr*, nice light! As you will notice, many of us here on MTBR are building our own LED based lights too. I look forward to your future posts. :thumbsup:

Dave.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

Low_Rider said:


> Welcome to MTBR *msxtr*, nice light! As you will notice, many of us here on MTBR are building our own LED based lights too. I look forward to your future posts. :thumbsup:
> 
> Dave.


Hi, *Low Rider*, thanks for your receive to me  . I have seen very home made lights on this forum, you are an artists widh the design of lights.:smallviolin:

Greetings from Spain

msxtr


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## Mike Oxmells (Mar 29, 2005)

got a Li-ion HID and love it. After 3 years the 'cost per ride' is minimal.

Love having a tiny battery as well, after years or carting round 5lbs+ of lead acids.


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## mjzraz (Oct 8, 2005)

grumbles2 said:


> I use a 35 watt HID bulb and light assembly that puts out over 3200 lumens, helmet mounted. Light pattern looks like daylight 75 feet wide and approx 300 feet deep.
> /QUOTE]
> 
> Grumbles,
> Can you provide some details on the build of your light? What kind of bulb, what kind of housing and the electronics? That thing seems pretty crazy.


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## tlymtb (Jan 23, 2005)

I have used several different halogen lights and they are all pretty good. I switched to HID when it first came out (niterider storm/blowtorch) and man!! Once you ride with hid there is no going back. The lights are so much brighter it really is is amazing, and most systems run 3.5-4 hours on a charge, incredible. That said the niteriders are great lights, but I did have problems with them (bulbs and ballast) I know they all use the same bulbs and ballasts. Niteriders customer service is very good, but I decided to try a light & motion arc li ion and it is awesome, lighter weight head and battery with a bit wider beam (although not quit as shear bright as the nr's). Hope that helps.


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## scottyperkins (Oct 29, 2006)

I ride on dirt with a NiteRider HID/LED combination (Blowtorch) and a just picked up a NR MiNewt for commuting, which is LED. I have to say that little MiNewt rocks. It's not going to replace the HID for trail riding, but for straight-ahead commuting and general road riding it's perfect. It could act as a handlebar complement to the HID (which I normally helmet mount).

Bottom line is I agree with two themes from this thread:

1) HID reigns. For now.
2) LED is really good and coming up fast. 

HTH


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

LED is so darn efficient it's hard to ignore. For instance, the DiNotte Lithium 5 weighs 320 grams and throws out 120 lumens for 6 hours.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

grumbles2 said:


> I use a 35 watt HID bulb and light assembly that puts out over 3200 lumens, helmet mounted. Light pattern looks like daylight 75 feet wide and approx 300 feet deep. Burn time is 1.5 to 2.5 depending on how much battery weight I want to carry. Its heavy because I use 12 volt 8.0 amp hour lead acid batteries in my back pack. The batteries are heavy (7lbs) but only cost $20. I could loose 5 lbs for about $150 at this point the heavy cheap battery is fine. I use this bulb.
> 
> Here is the back pack setup.


That has got to be the most incredible compilation for night riding I have ever seen. Are those fans cooling your battery pack?

With you along, who needs their own light? 

Of course, many of us are concerned about weight but that system of yours is cool nonetheless.

You ever get any complaints (i.e. from autos, neighbors, the Air Force, or the folks at the Night Skies Program)? LOL.

Happy holidays!


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## nickelk (May 20, 2006)

from the dinotte website on burn times for the ultra 5:
"Battery life: 3 hours low,100 minutes high, 20 hours flash" 
do you own this battery? do you get six hours from it?


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## nickelk (May 20, 2006)

oops, quoted the non-lithium battery burn times. that six hours is impressive for the li-ion batt.!!!!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Yep, 6 hours. Yes, I do own the Lithium 5 for my personal use. It is terrific.


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## Climber25 (Dec 19, 2006)

*Exposure LED*

I use the Exposure Enduro Turbo LED on the bars and the Exposure Joystick LED on my helmet. This is a great system! It is bright, light and cable free! I only have used a Night Rider 10w Halogen in the past. I always had a problem with the connections and cables splitting. Just a pain in the A**.

These Exposure lights far exceeds my expectations. The Exposure Enduro burn times are excellent 8.5 in low, 4.5 in high, 2.5 on turbo setting. This light uses 2- 5w Luxeon LED's, one spot lens and one flood. The turbo setting lights up my back yard! During a ride, I find myself mostly in high but will power up for a tricky descent or power down for non-technical sections of trail. The Joystick uses 1- 3w Luxeon LED and has a high 2.5 hours burn time and low 7.5 hour burn time. The Joystick doubles as my road riding/ commuter light. It mounts very securely on my bar or helmet with the appropriate mount.


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## nickelk (May 20, 2006)

know anywhere offering those for less then the listed $450 i could find?? seems a bit extreme for an LED....looks like a great light and package however


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## edwinharbor (Oct 12, 2005)

I now possess all of the main types of lights (HID, HALOGEN & LED)...not that I have a lot of $ - just sort of worked my way up to better lights. I have crashed hard at night (broken shoulder & helmet with concussion) due to light problems. Once, I had to finish the last third of a lap on a 24 hour event @ 3am with no lights because my battery went prematurely dead, etc&#8230; And, I probably have over 200 hours of night MTB single track riding time. Trust me, this is an area one does not need to try and go cheap&#8230;

IMHO as of December 2006* HID wins hands down. However, it took me at least 20 hours of night riding to get used to that weird blue light. I really missed the warm yellow glow of Halogen, and the NR Classic Plus has to be one of the strongest and best Beam Patterns available. Unfortunately, the Classic Plus only runs 1 hour and 15 minutes on high (32 watt mode) and it weighs almost 2 pounds (850 grams)!

I recently mounted a NR Minewt on my helmet (used the provided band to attach within a vent and Velcro'd the battery to the top). It works way nice. The Minewt is less than ½ pound and goes for 3.5 hours on high! I also run the NR HID Flight on the bars. This light has a good 2 hours of run time, charges very quick and only weighs 1 pound. The NR Moab (larger battery, double the weight) can go for 6 hours on high.

Recently, three of us were blazing through one of the more technical night trails (cliffs, 12 streams, many rocks & roots). Half way in we came upon two poor soles trying to find their way out while walking their bikes and using the glow from their Garman GPS to pick their way along. We yanked the Minewt off my buddies bike and put it on one of their bikes. Then I swapped helmets with the other guy; essentially giving him my Minewt for the ride out. They had never ridden at night (long story how they got stuck in there like that) but they rode out fine with just the one Minewt apiece. Another good reason to ride with two lights - one can be a great back-up for anyone that you are riding with or happen upon. Not to mention, what if your primary light dies (dead or failed battery, cable or bulb failure, crash and break it, etc&#8230

If you want to see the difference between the Beam Patterns that HID, Halogen & LED put out go to the link below for NiteRider. They have done a spectacular job of using the exact same shot with different headlamps to illustrate. (Interestingly, the halogen is the best, unfortunately it is not the most efficient in burn time or weight).

CLICK ON EACH LIGHT AND VIEW THE "BEAM PATTERN PHOTO"

http://www.niterider.com/bike.shtml

* I believe that LED will surpass the HID in 2007 with new technology. LED is already far more effecient with run time & weight - the "white" light LED uses seems to be more pleasing to the eye, also.


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## Climber25 (Dec 19, 2006)

nickelk said:


> know anywhere offering those for less then the listed $450 i could find?? seems a bit extreme for an LED....looks like a great light and package however


I have not found anything until now...
Check this on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/EXPOSURE-LIGHTS...ryZ22689QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## revrnd (Aug 13, 2004)

I've used a NiteRider Storm 2.0 helmet light for 2 seasons now. No complaints.


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## jeremyp111 (Sep 13, 2006)

After spending a ton of time on these boards doing research on different technologies, manufacturers and models I finally settled on a Jet Lites Phantom 20W halogen helmet mount and a NiteRider MiNewt LED for the bars/backup. I use the lights for riding singletrack at night. I was really happy with both lights, but a funny thing happened. I finished my second ride with the lights and said to myself, "Just get the HID!" I then exchanged the Phantom20W for a Jet Lites Blast HID helmet mount light. The Phantom 20W helmet gives off more than enough light, but the primary reason I upgraded was the longer battery life. The super extra light certainly doesn't hurt! :thumbsup: 


Conclusion:
The Blast HID is just awesome! Tons of light, awesome quality of the components and a pretty damn good price too.

The MiNewt is a great backup light for the bars. Super small and lightweight with very good battery life. I imagine it would work awesome for road rides or doubletrack trails as the only light, but it just doesn't give off enough light to be a primary light for twisty singletrack.

:thumbsup: to JetLites Blast HID
:thumbsup: to MiNewt


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