# Welcome to Thule-world! Filled with lies, deceptions and bad products



## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

*Welcome to Thule-world! A long wait comes to an end...*

After Scott from www.cracksandracks.com read this thread, he thought it was necessary for this issue to be taken care of. Thanks, Scott.

The squeaky wheel gets the grease-

A Higher-up (Stephen) at Thule got in contact with me and apologized for the lack of customer service in the past and said he wanted to send me an entirely new rack.

The "car wash theory" thought up by the Knowitalls on here wasn't true. According to Stephen, the car wash won't harm the rack.

As Stephen said in regards to my wait, "That's the term of a pregnancy!". Stephen said he doesn't want the rack to have Thules name posted all over that rusted rack and that it will be taken care of. When I asked what the appropriate care of the rack was, I was told to just wash it like I was and remove it during the winter. It didn't make sense to remove it every time it wasn't in use either.

Ttyl, Fahn


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

Good gods - that is just all sorts of wrong. Do you have road salt in your area? I have this rack in a very wet area but no salt usage (Seattle) and I have no rust whatsoever after a time. I dunno, maybe they're being difficult because they have doubts as to whether it's a warranty claim (i.e., not their fault). 

I've had issues in the past with stuff and what I do is get in contact with the manufacturer's regional rep - likely there's a Thule guy running around in your area responsible for working with the LBSs and various other resellers.


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## jcaino (May 26, 2007)

Thule stuff always seemed to me to be ridiculously overpriced. So far, I am not at all sorry of my decision to go with a different brand hitch rack.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

We do have road salt in the winter, but once it starts snowing my riding season is over and skiing is on. So the rack gets a washing at the car wash and comes off for the winter. So that really shouldn't be the problem in this case. IDK if water from the car wash sits inside the rack or what, but to me it all comes down to their warranty to stand behind their product. And that's where Thule failed big time despite their "lifetime warranty".

Ttyl, Fahn


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## lee p (Nov 12, 2005)

When I lived in the UK I heard nothing but great things about Thule CS, I'm really suprised by this story, Like said above try the rep or something


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

LarryFahn,

The customer service run around seems pretty inexcusable.

I do have a thought about the rust you might consider, and that is you mentioned weekly trips through the car wash with the bike rack on the vehicle. It strikes me that is a recipe for water getting inside the rack and rusting it out.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

The soap is also highly corrosive if it isn't properly rinsed or if the soap is trapped.

J.


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

i've had various thule setups for bikes and snowboards over the years. the snowboard carriers and square bars are the oldest (about 10 years now), due to feet packs and fit kits being sold and bought for various cars and trucks, and i have never seen rust like that on anything. these were all bought used off of ebay and craigslist too. i've never bought anything besides a set of lock cylinders new. i also wash my racks throughout the seasons, especially the winter months....and i give them a shower clean post season. never had a problem with thule, i love their products.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Well as far as the car wash goes... It is a car mounted bike rack. It should be made to last through a washing. I'm definitely not taking the rack off once a week to wash the truck, ya know? If the truck can take it, the rack should also. Thule, Yakima and other rack makers should make the racks to last hot, cold, wet, dry, etc... without these problems. Thule is the one I've had issues with. So my question is, why steel?

On a side note. Someone posted a question about Thule having drops of rust colored water coming out of the T2 a year after purchasing it. I came on and posted about the Woman I dealt with at Thule sending me the parts in two days and complimented their CS...
I will now eat my Humble Pie. What if it were a roof rack?

Fahn


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

i dunno... most of my friends who snowboard and bike have some form of a thule rack (mostly roof racks though), and i've never seen any problems like this. i'm not saying its your fault or anything, but personally i've never had a bad experience with their products. i've never had to use their cs, so i have no idea how that goes besides what you've stated.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

No issues here with my T2 but I do not run it through the carwash, nor do I run my car though the carwash unless I'm desperate. I have washed my rack in a self-serve carwash but not at full presure. I don't think the paint nor hardware on any of the racks are made to handle pressurized water. The racks don't have the multiple layers of paint nor the thick clearcoat that cars have. Their hardware is probably not galvanized either. Now, I have run the roofrack through the automatic car wash 5-6 times- no problems. 

Sorry to hear of your problems with Thule. Maybe ask for the supervisor.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Yeah, I asked for the supervisor and was told that they close in 3 minutes. When I asked to be put on hold, I was told that by doing that, I'd be tying up one of their phone lines and he'll call me back "if he has time", or on Monday (you know- his convenience).

Once again though, the rack is made for the car and so is the car wash. For those of us in apartments we have to park on the street and have no driveway or hose to hand wash the Truck. If Thule can't make a rack to tolerate it, then it's their problem to fix. There's nothing in the papers or Thule's site saying they can't be washed or get wet. After all, they make ski and snowboard racks that I use. One is aluminum, the other steel. Go figure.

Fahn


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LarryFahn said:


> We do have road salt in the winter, but once it starts snowing my riding season is over and skiing is on. So the rack gets a washing at the car wash and comes off for the winter. So that really shouldn't be the problem in this case.


Well, where do you think all that salt goes?, it doesn't just "vapoorize", it's in the ground, the road, the dirt, the dust. It gets kicked up and if there's salt on the roads in the winter, I'd imagine there's salt year round.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Sorry to hear that, I have a Yakima roof and hitch set up. Roof about 5 yrs and hitch 4 yrs, not a problem, I lubed them a few times a year. 

I also have Saris Thelma. The problem I have the Thelma is that it does not really fit tire bigger than 2.0. I called and emailed them the same day. My called I got the rep, who immediately offer to send me 5 additional wheel straps to help secure the wheel better. A few days later I got a reply from my email said that they are sending me another 5 straps.

It didn't really solve my problem but the action was taken immediately, no question asked.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Well, where do you think all that salt goes?, it doesn't just "vapoorize", it's in the ground, the road, the dirt, the dust. It gets kicked up and if there's salt on the roads in the winter, I'd imagine there's salt year round.


I'm not sure what the point is here. As stated above, the rack isn't on in the winter. The salt drains off with the snow cause the salt dissolves into the snow. Just like adding salt to water and mixing it. There's not chunks of salt all over the roads. Besides, it rains all spring here. That should take care of it enough. Don't put too much thought into it. The vehicles that drive on these roads all year aren't rusting and falling apart like this rack is. The road bikes aren't corroding or rusting. The bike rack is.

I know people who use these racks with no problems at all too.

Fahn


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## ou2mame (Apr 23, 2010)

i wouldn't get so offensive.. but considering a lot of peoples experiences with thule, either they had a defective batch of products, or something isn't right with the rust. i mean, i've seen racks that were never washed or cared for stand up to much worse for longer periods of time, so obviously something is triggering it. you had a few bad customer service reps... it happens, but i wouldn't fault an the whole company and its entire product line based on your one experience.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

It's more than one experience. It's at least 15-20 calls to Thule and over 30 emails. As stated it started in October. Do the math- 9 months now and the problem still isn't resolved? Would you be pissed off if it was your rack? how about a derailleur hanger that isn't in stock for that long?

Here's the other post that I said I'd eat my humble pie over. It seems this "batch" affected more than me. 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=589800

If you want to purchase one, it's your money. Go for it. Just be forewarned. That's what this post is for.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

I didn't quite catch the thing about the car wash. Yeah, that kinda looks like that's the problem. That stuff is pretty nasty (it has to be to work with little/no physical contact). I have a hunch Thule is giving you the run around as a result which they shouldn't do. If they don't want to warranty your claim they should just come out and tell you. 

Just because a rack goes on a car doesn't mean it is designed for all a car goes through. FWIW, I take my rack on/off after every time I use it. I have a battery-powered impact wrench in the trunk to make it a really quick process. Presuming the rack should be designed to handle the caustic chemicals of a car wash is a bit of a stretch IMO.

As to the quality of Thule customer service, I'll find out this week. Yesterday the rear tire strap broke off one of my brackets on my T2 - the strap was just riveted to plastic - not a very good design. Anywho, I'll start first with the place I bought the rack and go from there.


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

i think your problem is the car wash. i also wouldn't think of putting the rack into the car wash. steel rusts, in case you didn't know. its just a matter of when. Not everything thats "made for the car" is also "made for the car wash." Look at those flags that people stick up on their cars, lets see one of those last a car wash? Are you going to cry over it if it breaks in the car wash? you broke your rack by washing it in the car wash every week for however long you owned it.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

I disagree, unless Thule disclaimed on the website that their car attachment products are not made only for bike transportation, and must be taken out every time to extend the life of the rack. That's ridiculous! I have Yakima Roof systems on 2 of the car, and Hitch on one. I also have the Thule roof rack , but not the roof system. All are holding up well, with no issues. It can be a bad batch.

From what I read on OP it sounded like Thule wanted to make sure that Larry can not use the parts, that why they asked to have the part destroyed. They are afraid that Larry may be dishonest, and tried to scam them. I found that's lame. When I had a Klein Frame warranty, they told me to take it to their dealer they'll take care of the rest.

Some of you probably the recent incident a few months back, Thule got caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Here to refresh your memories
http://forums.singletracks.com/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=4617&start=0
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=597496

I want to actually commend Larry for being so patience, many would have called them out much earlier, me included. I would not buy any Thule product again, may be just the Yakima rack that they sell:nono:

Larry I suggest that if you get the parts back sell it, and buy Yakima or Kuat, why keep promoting the product. Forget their "Lifetime warranty", how many times can you go through this shite!


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

The fact that Thule knows Larry works at a LBS -- you'll think Thule would be more helpful.

Why? Look at it this way, Larry is pissed at Thule due to their lack thereof service. Will he (and the LBS) want to sell and promote Thule products now? Of course not. Why sell/promote a product/company you cannot believe in?

I have had some Thule roof rack products in the past. I'm with Yakima now (though their service isn't spectacular either). All I can say, is I do not recommend square bars. They will bend with normal use.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I still run the original T2 made by Sportworks and just bought the add on to run 4 bikes a couple years ago. I think the Sportworks is 7-8 years old. I wash and dry my truck and rack weekly and my rack looks almost new. It has seen a bunch of miles. I have a few buddys with the T2. They have had them 4-5 years and they all are going strong to.


Looking at your pics you have a ton of rust. Even your hitch is terribly rusted. I live in Montana and the hitch on my truck isnt even that rusted ater 40,000 miles.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

There's something else at work here and is generating all that rust. While it may not be obvious, the root cause should be understood and I think it is likely that there is an element of user error or in the user application in it. If not, there would be lots of other reports on the same thing happening with lots of other users.

That said, I agree with the notion that Thule it not being effective in getting to resolution and they need to work on that. My experience with the CS has been good but somehow this one fell into CS hell.

J.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> I disagree, unless Thule disclaimed on the website that their car attachment products are not made only for bike transportation, and must be taken out every time to extend the life of the rack. That's ridiculous! I have Yakima Roof systems on 2 of the car, and Hitch on one. I also have the Thule roof rack , but not the roof system. All are holding up well, with no issues. It can be a bad batch.
> 
> From what I read on OP it sounded like Thule wanted to make sure that Larry can not use the parts, that why they asked to have the part destroyed. They are afraid that Larry may be dishonest, and tried to scam them. I found that's lame. When I had a Klein Frame warranty, they told me to take it to their dealer they'll take care of the rest.
> 
> ...


I disagree - I'd say the rack is not necessarily designed to be on the car all the time. For example, on the average sedan when folded up the rack obscures the license plate and blocks a lot of the tail lights, which not only is probably a traffic violation it's unsafe.

When folded down without bikes the rack would need an elevated red flag at the outermost edge of the rack to comply with general rules of the road and to otherwise be safe as well.

The more I look at those pictures the more there is something seriously, seriously wrong here. The chances Thule screwed up the paint on this particular T2, or that there is a systemic/inherent flaw in the design/paint/materials of the rack, I'd say are virtually nil.

I hate to say it but if I'm Thule I probably don't warranty the rack, but I'd be a bit more professional about it.


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## bmiller02 (Mar 14, 2009)

I can't help but notice in the very first picture that the hitch itself has a decent amount of rust and I'm willing to bet the under carriage doesn't look too pretty.

Looks like you are either live or subject your vehicle to extreme conditions. It wouldn't hurt to protect your investment by spending 5 minutes to remove your carrier when not in use.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

I just spoke with the local rack shop about my broken T2-917 rear wheel ratchet strap. They said bring it in and they'll replace under warranty the entire slider bracket provided there are no obvious signs of abuse (i.e., damaged in an accident).


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

LarryFahn said:


>


This picture looks like water froze inside the left tube and split, so I'd guess water is indeed getting inside the frame...

What a customer service nightmare. Good luck.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

*Man what a cluster*

its hard to believe that the US distributor for THULE is such a mess. i wonder if you can use frame saver on a rack?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

The rack comes off in the winter.

The underside of the truck is in typical condition for a 2004 truck.

Washed and taken care of like the truck is... Which the rack is mounted to for 7-8 months of the year.

If a roof rack can stay on all year (which I see every day. Ski, bike, kayak...) This rack should stand up to the outdoors too.

The hitch I can understand rusting as well as that part of the rack. It is steel on steel. The hooks and cross bars though? No.

How am I supposed to take off this rack every day? Do you do it with your roof racks? I didn't think so. I live in an apt building with no additional space. I'm on the second floor with street parking. 

SAL9000- It's a good thing you're not Thule... Then again, do you work for Thule? You seem to match their attitude. I don't tighten the strap in the rear wheels since a buddy broke his. (This is what you most likely did.) Just enough to hold the wheel in place since it's in a cup like device. What did I do to void a "lifetime warranty"? Leave it on in the rain? Hahaha. I never backed it in to anything. It's folded up when not in use. Washed off the road grime weekly. Taken off during the winter. Put two bikes on it weekly.

PS, It hit me today at work that I can't call their manager today cause Thule is closed on Mondays. They only work a 4 day week. Yet their warehouse is backed up 3 days. I wonder why?

Fahn


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## BlueMountain (Nov 8, 2006)

Does your car wash use some sort of chemical or even a sodium-based chemical to soften the water? Salt soften water in homes but the carwash water softeners are more expensive. That is just a thought since this is an extreme case of rust I have never seen before. I have seen dozens of T2s and hundreds of racks but never something like this.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

SAL9000 said:


> I disagree - I'd say the rack is not necessarily designed to be on the car all the time. For example, on the average sedan when folded up the rack obscures the license plate and blocks a lot of the tail lights, which not only is probably a traffic violation it's unsafe.
> 
> When folded down without bikes the rack would need an elevated red flag at the outermost edge of the rack to comply with general rules of the road and to otherwise be safe as well.
> 
> ...


I agree. The rack has been abused.


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## scoutcat (Mar 30, 2008)

i've got a t2 and hope mine doesnt look like that someday. thule needs to use aluminum - no corrosion and it'd be way lighter. after seeing those pics they should have sent you a whole new rack... you need to put "thule t2" into a thread title and then this will pop up on google search.


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## cracksandracks.com (Oct 22, 2009)

have you gotten this taken care of yet? new parts? etc?


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Does it really matter what kind of abused, if any OP put it through at this point? 

If it's dragged on for this many months with record of Fahn Emails, the management at Thule should have just send him a new one and be done with. Nothing good can come out of this. If Thule was not going to warranty the rack for what ever issue, they should have just denied the claim. 

How much can the T2 cost Thule USA? Not worth this kind of negative feedback, when clearly, they are the one that dragged this on. It's one thing to have a bad policy for consumers, but being incompetent is nothing to brag about. Take the medicine and just take the loss, make one guy happy, he'll praise you. Instead, you get this mess.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

What I feel the OP wants is closure. Sure a new rack under their lifetime warranty would be nice, but I think he just wants someone to say something other than "can ya email me pics?"
Also, if you offer lifetime warranty on a product steel, what do you expect the steel to do in it's lifetime? Grow stronger and shinier? And who's lifetime does the warranty cover? Yours or the rack?


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> The rack comes off in the winter.
> 
> The underside of the truck is in typical condition for a 2004 truck.
> 
> ...


Nah, dawg, I don't work for Thule. I'm just a thinking guy on teh Internets. Not trying to offend, just calling it like a I see it and thus probably how Thule sees it. If they were truly this bad at making racks they'd have gone out of business WAY long ago.

Like I said, I have lots and lots of rain (and mud) hours on my T2 and when I do take it off it just sits, wet, in the garage. After about a year there is not one scintilla of corrosion on it anywhere.

I think you're simply going to have to accept that my experience, along with others' similar observations that they've never seen anything like this, is the norm. Thus, it is something out of the norm that you're doing - and it looks to be the car wash.

The other question I have is, Why did you let it get this bad? Surely this didn't happen in a week or two, but built up over time. IMO, that should have been an indicator for you to investigate before the rack go so bad that it ultimately failed.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

Did you buy the T2 brand new?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

It was bought in 2007 brand new from ORS Racks.

*"The other question I have is, Why did you let it get this bad?"*

What else can I do? The rust started last year and when the hook failed, that's when I called Thule. If I got it blasted and PC'd it would cost $100 or better. Why add that on top of the $400 I originally paid and then void the warranty? After all it is a "lifetime warranty". Sorry for coming off as a dick. But I don't get how after pics and a long story with all the explanations I could do, people come on here blaming me for rust on steel. An act of nature that *Thule backs up*. This begs the uestion again, Why steel and not aluminum?

*"What I feel the OP wants is closure"*
Word! If this took a month or two. No big deal. But after waiting 9 months I feel it's time to let people know how much Thule sucks.

I'll mention this too. Second to last time (I think as I'm starting to lose count) I was on the phone with Mike, he asked "So you want a whole new rack?". I answered back, "No! I just want the parts I need!" I was so pissed off at this whole thing that I just want to get it over with.

Scott
*"have you gotten this taken care of yet? new parts? etc?"*
No, not yet. I'm hoping sometime this week they mail me the correct parts, but who knows?

I'm heading on a 7hr road trip from PA to VT Wednesday night. A buddy is giving me one arm off of his roof rack (he's got two, but only needs the one for the week). The other one I'm going to see if a friend that was in a fender bender will let me use theirs since the car is out of commission.

Pics of my truck. You can tell by the body and engine bay that I take care of my stuff.

























For being 7 years old in NEPA. Not too bad!


















Ttyl, Fahn


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

kntr said:


> I agree. The rack has been abused.


i agree also, the rack has been abused.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

I just want to add this. I don't know Michle Cote and hope this doesn't get him personally in trouble. But 90% of the time I call or send emails, it's to him. That leads me to believe that Thule only has one or two guys handling their entire operation... Tuesday through Friday and closed for 3 days a week. Philippe Seguin is another I dealt with for an email or two. I just want Thule to fix this ongoing problem. That's it.

Fahn


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

skyliner1004 said:


> i agree also, the rack has been abused.


I have proof from ongoing emails for most everything I stated.

Where's yours?

There's no reason to be in denial. The pics don't lie and neither do the emails and phone calls.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing repetitively and expecting different results (according to Einstein). Time to do something different. Why don't you just summarize this in a one page memo and send it to the President of Thule fed ex p1 with some pictures. If he doesn't care about this, then it wont' get handled. If he does, it will get handled right away. It's pretty apparent you aren't going to get anywhere with your approach with CS - so give it up on that account.

At that point, if that doesn't work, write it off as a bad experience (bad karma whatever) and get something else.

J.


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> I have proof from ongoing emails for most everything I stated.
> 
> Where's yours?
> 
> There's no reason to be in denial. The pics don't lie and neither do the emails and phone calls.


your emails are a waste of your time, obviously. whatever you're writing, its not working.
You put the rack in a car wash, with about 20 different unknown chemicals. then they go through jets of water.

No, the bike rack is not designed to go through the car wash. I dont see how you rationalized that. just because its made for the car doesn't mean it can go through everything the car can go through. my sneakers and my jackets are waterproof, does that mean i will leave them out in the rain every week? my bike can be ridden in the rain also, do i ride it in the rain? Do i unleash the jet stream of my hose on it? The T2 isn't designed for the car wash.

i'm very sorry you live on the 2nd floor of an apartment building and can't bring it up there with you. Thats a non factor for us or Thule. Its your responsibility; you knew it weighted 50+lbs, yet you still bought it.

Buy another T2, buy a yakima, buy a saris, buy something so you can stop complaining and you can transport your bikes around.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

Judging by those second set of pictures and the (what I find) shocking corrosion on the hitch and entire underside of the truck, just about _any_ accessory is not going to last very long. That you have roof-mounted racks lasting isn't much of a factor as they're up off the road surface and will generally dry much quicker when put through the car wash.

Put this way, if the underside of a preeminent off-road vehicle such as a 4Runner is going to rust, wouldn't a relatively cheap add-on accessory rust too? Maybe it's the road salt. Maybe it's the car wash. I dunno. But whatever it is, it's attacking the whole car, and I fail to see how Thule can be held responsible. (This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?)


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## herzog (Nov 29, 2008)

Larry, I've read the whole thread and in my view it's time to forget it and move on.

What price do you put on your own time? From the looks of things, you've spent an inordinate amount of time and effort on this, and it's just not worth it over an accessory which is worth a few hundred dollars at best.

Sometimes you just have to cut your losses and get on with life.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

It doesn't matter if the rack was made to go through a car wash or not. What matters is that Thule said that they'd take care of it and then instead strung him along for 9 months without resolving the issue. If they didn't want to cover the damage then they should have just said so.

BTW - that amount of rust on the undercarriage is nothing for a 6 year old truck driven regularly during the winter on salted roads in this area.


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## edthesped (Jun 20, 2010)

SAL9000 said:


> Judging by those second set of pictures and the (what I find) shocking corrosion on the hitch and entire underside of the truck, just about _any_ accessory is not going to last very long. That you have roof-mounted racks lasting isn't much of a factor as they're up off the road surface and will generally dry much quicker when put through the car wash.
> 
> Put this way, if the underside of a preeminent off-road vehicle such as a 4Runner is going to rust, wouldn't a relatively cheap add-on accessory rust too? Maybe it's the road salt. Maybe it's the car wash. I dunno. But whatever it is, it's attacking the whole car, and I fail to see how Thule can be held responsible. (This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?)


You clearly do not live in the Northeast. That truck would be considered clean here in Pittsburgh. Also, many automakers do cover rust in their warranty...

http://www.toyotaownersonline.com/warranty/

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/03/07/toyota-extends-rust-warranty-on-older-tacoma-pickups-to-15-years/

herzog, I'm sure the Pope hopes more people feel the same way as you...

Unless there is a specific rust exclusion the warranty should be honored.

LarryFahn, did you ever think of filing a complaint through the State Attorney General's office?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

herzog said:


> it's just not worth it over an accessory which is worth a few hundred dollars at best.


Sometimes we don't have the $500 sitting around for the Kuat rack that's made out of *aluminum*. Like all racks should be.

Fahn


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

SAL9000 said:


> Maybe it's the road salt. Maybe it's the car wash. I dunno. But whatever it is, it's attacking the whole car, and I fail to see how Thule can be held responsible. (This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?)


The only rust on the undercarriage is surface rust. It's not rotting through like Thule's rack. To be frank, I'm surprised at how good it is. Usually the undercarriage is all surface rust. But after having it for 6+ years, it's still holding up! My last Toyota was an '89 pick-up and had 243,000 miles before I got rid of it for this one. The body was original. So was the engine, clutch (replaced the master cylinder only), tranny, rear brakes, leaf springs(if anything is susceptible to erosion!), and everything under the hood. The suspension was changed on the front once, calipers twice, battery lasted over 9 years and the truck was 16 years when I got rid of it for the 4Runner. Good times were had in that truck. The 4Runner too. Sleeping in the back of it this year while waiting for the snow to fly in VT, endless hours of trail building and DH trips to Whiteface down to Snowshoe. Now Kingdom awaits! Thanks to Jeff and Jinny for letting me borrow their racks! Ttyl, Fahn


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## cracksandracks.com (Oct 22, 2009)

thule is closed on mondays to consumers.
i call thule everyday of the week, and have never spoken to a michele cote. calls are routed to certain people depending on where calls come from. michele cote, is probably in thule canada. 
we speak to many folks there as well.
it's too bad that there is one guy that is causing all this grief.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

The bottom of his car tells the story.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

Jayem said:


> The bottom of his car tells the story.


How? Because he lives in an area that salts in the winter? Even though he's stated several times in this thread that he takes the rack off once the snow flies??


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Take pics of the bottom of any vehicle that's 6+ years and lets see what it looks like. Post pics of yours. As others stated, you apparently don't live in the northeast. The truck sees road salt in the winter. The rack does not.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

bvibert said:


> How? Because he lives in an area that salts in the winter? Even though he's stated several times in this thread that he takes the rack off once the snow flies??


Some people just see pics and don't read the story. I guess that explains some of the repetitive postings by the same 3-4 people. Thank your teachers for being able to read. Sometimes it's an underestimated privilege!


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

Jayem said:


> The bottom of his car tells the story.


Ha! As mentioned, that is CLEAN for 6 years in the north where the snow flies and people aren't afraid to drive with .25" of snow on the ground.
Now if that was from Florida, then yes, the rust is bad.

And some of you aren't reading. Thule has not denied the warranty yet. They are just slow. Very slow with this case.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

edthesped said:


> You clearly do not live in the Northeast. That truck would be considered clean here in Pittsburgh. Also, many automakers do cover rust in their warranty...
> 
> http://www.toyotaownersonline.com/warranty/
> 
> ...


I don't have to live in the NE to be a thinker and observer.

It's far too generous to presume Thule would follow Toyota's warranty. Further, the underside of a 4WD vehicle is going to be built out of thicker and/or higher quality steel than a bike rack.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> The only rust on the undercarriage is surface rust. It's not rotting through like Thule's rack. To be frank, I'm surprised at how good it is. Usually the undercarriage is all surface rust. But after having it for 6+ years, it's still holding up! My last Toyota was an '89 pick-up and had 243,000 miles before I got rid of it for this one. The body was original. So was the engine, clutch (replaced the master cylinder only), tranny, rear brakes, leaf springs(if anything is susceptible to erosion!), and everything under the hood. The suspension was changed on the front once, calipers twice, battery lasted over 9 years and the truck was 16 years when I got rid of it for the 4Runner. Good times were had in that truck. The 4Runner too. Sleeping in the back of it this year while waiting for the snow to fly in VT, endless hours of trail building and DH trips to Whiteface down to Snowshoe. Now Kingdom awaits! Thanks to Jeff and Jinny for letting me borrow their racks! Ttyl, Fahn


Gotcha dawg - I had a first generation Tacoma - put 10 years and 177k before I unloaded it (never a hint of rust, BTW, but again, we don't salt in Seattle).

As I just stated above the underside of a 4WD vehicle will be built out of thicker and/or higher quality steel than a bike rack.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

That sucks....
these bike racks rusting is enough to me me never want to buy a thule product.
My yakima rack hangs out on the back of my truck most of the year, & has since I bought it in 2003....no rust at all....
Thule should be honoring the lifetime warranty. I agree with the other poster, write a letter & send it to the higher-ups....


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## JEM2 (Feb 25, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> The only rust on the undercarriage is surface rust. It's not rotting through like Thule's rack. To be frank, I'm surprised at how good it is. Usually the undercarriage is all surface rust. But after having it for 6+ years, it's still holding up! My last Toyota was an '89 pick-up and had 243,000 miles before I got rid of it for this one. The body was original. So was the engine, clutch (replaced the master cylinder only), tranny, rear brakes, leaf springs(if anything is susceptible to erosion!), and everything under the hood. The suspension was changed on the front once, calipers twice, battery lasted over 9 years and the truck was 16 years when I got rid of it for the 4Runner. Good times were had in that truck. The 4Runner too. Sleeping in the back of it this year while waiting for the snow to fly in VT, endless hours of trail building and DH trips to Whiteface down to Snowshoe. Now Kingdom awaits! Thanks to Jeff and Jinny for letting me borrow their racks! Ttyl, Fahn


Nice clean NORTHEAST CAR!!! I hope Thule finally comes through.... Have fun at the KT.. I was there last saturday and it was a blast!!! I hope it all gets sorted out for ya!! If you need a quick break for lunch try my place www.hanoverinn.com just off the highway at the Norwich exit on 91 north, great little town, a nice break before the last 1.5 hours..
JEM


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## edthesped (Jun 20, 2010)

SAL9000 said:


> I don't have to live in the NE to be a thinker and observer.
> 
> It's far too generous to presume Thule would follow Toyota's warranty. Further, the underside of a 4WD vehicle is going to be built out of thicker and/or higher quality steel than a bike rack.


SAL9000

The Toyota part of my comment was in regard to this part of your post... " (This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?)" If the rust on the truck frame were an issue, which it is not, it may be covered under Toyota's warranty.

As for Thule's warranty, a copy can be found here...

http://www.rackattack.com/mfg-extras/thule-warranty.pdf

The warranty is pretty straight forward and clearly does not exclude failure due to rust.

Granted Thule has attempted to rectify the situation, albeit in a [email protected]$$ed way. I would call Thule and tell them if they don't rectify the issue ASAP that I would file a claim with the State Attorney General's Office.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

edthesped said:


> SAL9000
> 
> The Toyota part of my comment was in regard to this part of your post... " (This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?)" If the rust on the truck frame were an issue, which it is not, it may be covered under Toyota's warranty.
> 
> ...


The point being about Toyota, if Toyota specifically warrants against rust doesn't mean Thule should too (meaning, speaking to the assertion that the rack should be capable of "surviving" whatever the vehicle since it is designed to be used on a vehicle).

Warranties mean relatively little in the real world - in practice it's the manufacturer's option on what it wants to warranty - case in point from Thule's warranty: "No warranty is given for defects resulting from conditions beyond THULE's control including, *but not limited to*,..."

Why isn't the topic starter simply going to the Thule dealer where he bought the rack? I just did this to get a warranty part for my T2 and it took a 30 second phone call and a visit to the place. Thule's warranty is not transferable - did the topic starter not buy it new? That would explain a lot. Either way, something doesn't quite seem right with this story.

Contacting the AG is a waste of time. Thule ain't stupid - they have plenty of outs should they not want to warranty a claim as plainly shown in their documentation. Thule, like any smart and prudent entity, would respond to a threat of a lawyer simply by shutting down any and all negotiations.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

It's also hardly worth contacting the AG's office for a $400 rack. It's not worth their time to chase it unless there are a LOT of similar cases and it probably isn't worth the time of anyone else either. I'm not a lawyer, but I think this lands in small claims court where, even if you do get a judgment, you have to enforce it - so you are right back where you started.

J.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

LarryFahn said:


> Take pics of the bottom of any vehicle that's 6+ years and lets see what it looks like. Post pics of yours. As others stated, you apparently don't live in the northeast. The truck sees road salt in the winter. The rack does not.


Well, mine doesn't. As I said before, it's ignorant to think that salts just "dissapear" after they are used. They get kicked up onto the undercarrige, sure, some of it dissolves and runs "downstream", but the salts remain in the soil and road and cause that corossion. We use cinder on the roads here instead of straight salt. Sorry, but I'm not suprised the rack looks like the underside of his car.


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## tednugent (Apr 16, 2009)

SAL9000 said:


> Why isn't the topic starter simply going to the Thule dealer where he bought the rack?


I guess you missed Larry's details in the first post....he works at a LBS,

.....which is prob a thule dealer...where he got it in the first place


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## edthesped (Jun 20, 2010)

SAL9000 said:


> The point being about Toyota, if Toyota specifically warrants against rust doesn't mean Thule should too (meaning, speaking to the assertion that the rack should be capable of "surviving" whatever the vehicle since it is designed to be used on a vehicle).


The Toyota warranty was an answer to *your *question "This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?" I just wanted to show that Toyota covers rust in their warrantyl



SAL9000 said:


> Warranties mean relatively little in the real world - in practice it's the manufacturer's option on what it wants to warranty - case in point from Thule's warranty: "No warranty is given for defects resulting from conditions beyond THULE's control including, *but not limited to*,..."


Agreed, to a point. It's a poor business practice to not honor warranties and business' that try to chump out on warranties don't usually last long after they begin the practice, especially with the advent of the internets. I'm no lawyer but I do work for a medium sized manufacturing company and am familiar with the handling of warranty claims.



SAL9000 said:


> -------------Contacting the AG is a waste of time. Thule ain't stupid - they have plenty of outs should they not want to warranty a claim as plainly shown in their documentation. Thule, like any smart and prudent entity, would respond to a threat of a lawyer simply by shutting down any and all negotiations.


I've seen some pretty amazing things happen after a complaint is filed with the AG so I wouldn't be too sure nothing would come of it, especially during an election season. When FIOS first came to my neighborhood I filed a complaints with the AG's office and the PUC about Verizon refusing to install FIOS internet and television and allowing me to keep my copper phone line. Within 2 weeks I received a call from Verizon and now have FIOS TV, internet and a phone on copper, (don't go there, the wife insists on keeping a copper line) so don't discount the power of filling out a form with the AG's office. If nothing else they maintain records of complaint and if they get many from Thule you can bet questions will be asked.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

SAL9000 said:


> Why isn't the topic starter simply going to the Thule dealer where he bought the rack?...Thule's warranty is not transferable - did the topic starter not buy it new?





LarryFahn said:


> It was bought in 2007 brand new from ORS Racks.





LarryFahn said:


> Some people just see pics and don't read the story. I guess that explains some of the repetitive postings by the same 3-4 people. Thank your teachers for being able to read. Sometimes it's an underestimated privilege!


As far as me working at the shop- I've worked there the last two years and back in the early '00's. I bought the rack in '07 while I wasn't working at the shop.

Why bother? The Dawg's not gunna read this post either...

Ttyl, Fahn


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

edthesped said:


> The Toyota warranty was an answer to *your *question "This begs another question - are you going after Toyota too?" I just wanted to show that Toyota covers rust in their warrantyl


I think it was pretty obvious it was a rhetorical question. The original implied claim was since Toyota covers rust, Thule should too. It is irrational to presume Thule does (or should do) what Toyota does.



> Agreed, to a point. It's a poor business practice to not honor warranties and business' that try to chump out on warranties don't usually last long after they begin the practice, especially with the advent of the internets. I'm no lawyer but I do work for a medium sized manufacturing company and am familiar with the handling of warranty claims.


It's also poor business practice to cover circumstances outside the warranty. And Thule has been around for quite some time.



> I've seen some pretty amazing things happen after a complaint is filed with the AG so I wouldn't be too sure nothing would come of it, especially during an election season. When FIOS first came to my neighborhood I filed a complaints with the AG's office and the PUC about Verizon refusing to install FIOS internet and television and allowing me to keep my copper phone line. Within 2 weeks I received a call from Verizon and now have FIOS TV, internet and a phone on copper, (don't go there, the wife insists on keeping a copper line) so don't discount the power of filling out a form with the AG's office. If nothing else they maintain records of complaint and if they get many from Thule you can bet questions will be asked.


No offense, but your one complaint didn't force the hand of a multi-billion $$$ company. Larry is best off simply grokking that he chooses to live in an extremely corrosive environment.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> As far as me working at the shop- I've worked there the last two years and back in the early '00's. I bought the rack in '07 while I wasn't working at the shop.
> 
> Why bother? The Dawg's not gunna read this post either...
> 
> Ttyl, Fahn


I think overall you're simply best off understanding that you choose to live in an extremely corrosive environment and that decision will have consequences.

The only real way around it is a either a non-metallic or stainless steel rack but these don't exist _any_ rack you buy will corrode.

I understand trying to work the system to your own selfish end but this Thule smear campaign just isn't working. Everyone knows salt is murder on metal.


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## phattyduck (Jun 19, 2009)

It fairly specifically states in on the second to last page of the T2 instructions to: "Remove your Thule rack and accessories when they are not in use and before entering automatic car washes."

It also states that you are supposed to check for signs of wear, corrosion and fatigue.

Washing mild steel every week with corrosive chemicals at high pressure will seriously accelerate wear on the rack. You are supposed to wash with mild detergent and water, only when necessary. I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. In owning my rack for the last 8 months, I have gone through rain twice and only had to wipe it down lightly with a rag once to keep it in "like new" condition.

That said, the runaround from Thule is sad and shouldn't have happened. I have had great dealings with Thule so far...

-Charlie


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

phattyduck said:


> It fairly specifically states in on the second to last page of the T2 instructions to: "Remove your Thule rack and accessories when they are not in use and before entering automatic car washes."
> 
> It also states that you are supposed to check for signs of wear, corrosion and fatigue.


[/thread over]


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## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

LarryFahn said:


> Take pics of the bottom of any vehicle that's 6+ years and lets see what it looks like. Post pics of yours. As others stated, you apparently don't live in the northeast. The truck sees road salt in the winter. The rack does not.


Good luck in your quest Larry. FWIW, I think your in the right here.

Anyone with an old school Thule or Yak rack know how great they hold up. Your new-school rack was either designed badly or had some kind of manufacturing defect that should be covered.

These guys from CA and WA have no idea what the rest of the country is like, and wiping down your rack after a rain is just plain ridiculous.

I know I'm going to steer clear of new Thule going forward based on this thread. My guess is that they've let their old solid design rules slip as they've acquired new companies and their legacy designs as well as tried to reduce (their) costs.


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

Never mind


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## phattyduck (Jun 19, 2009)

J_Westy said:


> Good luck in your quest Larry. FWIW, I think your in the right here.
> 
> Anyone with an old school Thule or Yak rack know how great they hold up. Your new-school rack was either designed badly or had some kind of manufacturing defect that should be covered.
> 
> ...


Just so we are clear, I didn't mean that you should go out there after a rain and wipe it down. I mean, when it looks dirty, give it a quick wipe down.

If he was using the rack 3-4 times per week, it would be fair to say that the rack is 'in use' - so that part is ok...

As for the washing the rack in an automatic car wash every week - that's rediculous. It shouldn't be done. I do believe that the rack should be made of better materials, but it is not designed to be put through a high pressure sprayer once a week with corrosive chemicals. Then again, I avoid those auto car washes as much as possible anyway.

Also, around here, most decent size apartment complexes have a car washing area so you can DIY.

Anyways, this is turning into one of those stupid internet battles that won't be resolved. I've said what I needed to say. Good luck!

-Charlie

PS. I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't salt. It's bad for the environment and ruins vehicles. I was able to find a 20-year-old unibody Toyota with no rust here that is now my daily driver, including all my biking and skiing trips.


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## Pulled_Pork (Jun 20, 2009)

Careful what you post on the internet, the "fan boys" all come out to show how YOU are an idiot and they are brilliant. Happens all the time on this site, much more than the many other forums I follow.

I would read their lifetime warranty thing, but I bet they have the classic caveat of "don't actually use this product or you void the warrantee." I think it looks like a defect in the paint prep, raw material or the design. If water is getting trapped in an outdoor product, it is a bad design. Especially for an automotive product, it needs to be able to handle actual weather, indifferent of time of year. I bike in the snow all the time and need a rack to carry my bike.


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

Pulled_Pork said:


> Careful what you post on the internet, the "fan boys" all come out to show how YOU are an idiot and they are brilliant. Happens all the time on this site, much more than the many other forums I follow.
> 
> I would read their lifetime warranty thing, but I bet they have the classic caveat of "don't actually use this product or you void the warrantee." I think it looks like a defect in the paint prep, raw material or the design. If water is getting trapped in an outdoor product, it is a bad design. Especially for an automotive product, it needs to be able to handle actual weather, indifferent of time of year. I bike in the snow all the time and need a rack to carry my bike.


did you see the post where the guy pointed out in Thule's manual telling users to not leave the rack on during car washes:



> "Remove your Thule rack and accessories when they are not in use and before entering automatic car washes."


/thread

user error once again. Will karma come around and bite me in the ass? I'm picking up my T2 917XT in a day or 2


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## Pulled_Pork (Jun 20, 2009)

skyliner1004 said:


> did you see the post where the guy pointed out in Thule's manual telling users to not leave the rack on during car washes:
> 
> /thread
> 
> user error once again. Will karma come around and bite me in the ass? I'm picking up my T2 917XT in a day or 2


I am not disagreeing with what the warrantee states at all. My statements were specifically about "care being taken" when complaining on the internet and that most warrantees are crap. They are written to give the manufacturer infinite "outs" from having to do anything. Most of them, including Thule, usually go above and beyond what they need to do.

My biggest generic rant is, if you are making a product for a car, it should be able to go where the car goes. They salt roads where I live for a good 4-5 months and it lives on the road for much of the summer only to be kicked up by every rainstorm. Since the North American group is based in CT, which I know uses salt on their roads, you think they would be aware. (It states on their webpage that bike carriers for the NA market are developed there.) Most aftermarket accessories for vehicles are similar though when not living up to OEM standards.

As a note, I currently have a Saris Thelma rack which has been used for a number of years without issue. I have also had a Thule roof system in the past without issue.

Peace.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Salt on roads does not persist much after the first rainstorm. I live in MN, where the DOT uses an incredible amount of salt on the roads, and I can tell you that as a fact. Salt dissolves into water and it goes away with the runoff (the pollution effects of that are another matter entirely vis a vis water quality). It is not "kicked up by every rainstorm." That is incorrect and misleading. There would be literally piles of salt on the road side otherwise, and there are not. You can see during the winter the road salt on the dry pavement and you can visibly see how that changes after a rain or two in the spring.

There is something else at play in this case. I would not be surprised to find out that the detergent used in the car washes frequented by the OP are not being adequately removed from the rack - that is probably more corrosive that road salt AND it's a liquid. 

I take my roof racks through the car wash, but they don't have anywhere near the entrapment areas that the T2 does. I would never take a hitch rack through a wash anyhow - that's just asking for damage anyhow. 

If it's out of warranty, then you're done. One knows the warranty when they buy the product. You don't like the warranty, then don't buy it. I can certainly see why a rack manufacturer would be reluctant to sell parts. Improperly installed, they could cause a failure on the road leading to serious injury or death in an accident that would be blamed on the manufacturer through no fault of their own.

J.


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## Pulled_Pork (Jun 20, 2009)

JohnJ80 said:


> Salt on roads does not persist much after the first rainstorm. I live in MN, where the DOT uses an incredible amount of salt on the roads, and I can tell you that as a fact. Salt dissolves into water and it goes away with the runoff (the pollution effects of that are another matter entirely vis a vis water quality). It is not "kicked up by every rainstorm." That is incorrect and misleading. There would be literally piles of salt on the road side otherwise, and there are not. You can see during the winter the road salt on the dry pavement and you can visibly see how that changes after a rain or two in the spring.
> 
> There is something else at play in this case. I would not be surprised to find out that the detergent used in the car washes frequented by the OP are not being adequately removed from the rack - that is probably more corrosive that road salt AND it's a liquid.
> 
> ...


Misleading? Just had the conversation with a Civil from the State DOT about this today. Interesting you commented about this today as well. Absolutely, it is still there well after the first rainstorms, not all summer, but it persists. Where I live we have dry spells and then ice again, which means more salt. So my rack is often out on the salted roads.

So they shouldn't sell spare parts? Thank goodness they don't sell replacement lug nuts! Imagine the lawsuits! And thank you for proving my first point.


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## Pulled_Pork (Jun 20, 2009)

From Saris warranty: 

"When we say “We bring the power of cycling to life, we mean it”. Talk’s cheap. That’s why you’ll see our limited lifetime warranties on all Saris racks. Not three years, not five, but for as long as the original buyer owns it. Because we firmly believe that cycling is a lifetime sport. So why settle for anything less from the equipment that helps you enjoy it.

Saris Cycling Group, Inc (SCG) warrants our product to the original consumer to be free from defects in materials and workmanship. Please retain your sales slip for your records as proof of purchase will be required."

Nothing about car washes or winter....


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Pulled_Pork said:


> Misleading? Just had the conversation with a Civil from the State DOT about this today. Interesting you commented about this today as well. Absolutely, it is still there well after the first rainstorms, not all summer, but it persists. Where I live we have dry spells and then ice again, which means more salt. So my rack is often out on the salted roads.
> 
> So they shouldn't sell spare parts? Thank goodness they don't sell replacement lug nuts! Imagine the lawsuits! And thank you for proving my first point.


I don't think these people are making any distinction between "dissolves" and "dissapears". Just because it's dissolved does NOT mean it's dissapeared, it's still there, in the soil, in the concrete/asphalt, etc. It may not have the same concentration, and some of it did go into the water table for sure, but you don't just dump salt on the road or any contaminant and expect that it just "goes away". It doesn't. I'm sure you could measure salination levels higher than areas that don't have salt dropped on em.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Please come and look. I guarantee you that there is little to no salt around very soon after the snow melts (thats a lot of water in it's own right) and then for sure after a couple of good rainstorms. If there was as much as you suggest there is the grass and plants would be dead. I'm not saying it disappears from the environment, and I do say that it is it's own sort of pollution, but you are not going to find any significant salt around that is going to cause a rack like this to corrode during the non winter seasons (which was the whole point of the discussion and the concept to which I took exception). It is highly diluted and runs off very, very early in the biking (and, hence, bike rack) season.

Mythical "summer" road salt is not the thing that is corroding this rack.

J.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

phattyduck said:


> "Remove your Thule rack and accessories when they are not in use and before entering automatic car washes."


I'm not using an automatic car wash though. I understand that completley cause it can snag the car wash rollers or whatever else. This is a typical car wash. the nozzle is held 3-4 feet away. The pressure is greatly reduced the farther away the nozzle is held.

ttyl, Fahn


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

Some people are acting like they know what's causing the rust and failure of this rack.

one or two are saying it's the "road salt".

One or two other know-it-alls are saying it's the "car wash". (BTW, I don't use the "automatic car wash") 

So here's my question-
If there's any road salt on the rack from a drive to the trails in late June, how do I get rid of the salt? 

I just got back from a 1000 mile trip through Pa, Ny, Ct, Ma, and Vt. It rained for 2 out of 4 days. Now the rack is really done, Huh? 

You guys can argue amongst yourselves over the correct answer. :thumbsup:


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

Pulled_Pork said:


> From Saris warranty:
> 
> "When we say "We bring the power of cycling to life, we mean it". Talk's cheap. That's why you'll see our limited lifetime warranties on all Saris racks. Not three years, not five, but for as long as the original buyer owns it. Because we firmly believe that cycling is a lifetime sport. So why settle for anything less from the equipment that helps you enjoy it.
> 
> ...


I owned a Saris rack. It was made mostly of plastic which is indeed more corrosion resistant but that also means it's a POS - Saris didn't design a better product - they simply cheaped out. All in all I found it a gigantic POS. Thule builds a much more robust product overall.


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## KAHAIKAPU (Sep 28, 2008)

Looks like salt ..lol I live in Hawaii 8 miles from the Ocean no matter how you try to protect iron from rusting is Impossible.. I have my T2 for about a year now and it starting to have surface rust and I lube the release/latch mechanism as much as possible..Question could the iron already contain moisture in it while there being formed? So after a few months it seems to pop out from behind of the powder coating/paint? Also i dont think Thule would warranty somthing that could be avoided..i mean drive on salt for the winter is like backing your boat trailer in the ocean.. The fisherman used to grease the entire trailer before the enviroment thing..once the salt touches the metal..it will rust..Salt is bad for iron just look under your vehicle


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

LarryFahn said:


> Some people are acting like they know what's causing the rust and failure of this rack.
> 
> one or two are saying it's the "road salt".
> 
> ...


You brought the whole issue here I would presume to get people to give you their thoughts on why this was happening. That has occurred. Perhaps you had a different motivation - to damage Thule? Enlighten us.

If it's none of those things and given that Thule has made scads of these things and this is apparently a rather singular incident, I'd be looking hard at your usage, behavior and maintenance of this thing. It's the only difference noted so far from others that own one.

Don't know what else to say. If your purpose was to damage Thule, while the T2 is not my choice of rack, I think that is not a great purpose.

J.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I have seen two Holudups with severe surface rust. I have had no issues with my T2s, I have left it on during the winter but Colorado uses Mag Chloride- possibly less corrosive than salt? Anyway, when I do get it all mucked up with Mag Chloride and sand, I either rinse it off at home with a hose or bucket with mug and rag (in winter). I have used the car wash with a hand wand but use the low pressure- basically I do not squeeze the trigger except for a few short bursts. It is a non-humid climate here but I also lived in Kansas City where the weather sucks (the city kinda sucks too) and is humid a lot- no issues while living either except for discoloration of the bolt ends and some of the smaller nuts.

Salt in the air corrodes everything. Salt on the roads makes it tough to keep the rust away as well. I'm not sure of the specifics but just offering my experiences. You can call me a fanboy but that simply makes you look angry and negative- and narrow-minded for lashing out at those offering opinions and experiences. You lose quite a bit of credibility that way.

I do have a Yakima roof box and have owned a Yakima bike rack, roof rail system, and Load Warrior cargo carrier. I have also owned two Saris bike racks (Bones & Cycle On Pro). I also own an Inno bike roof rack. I do think Thule could and should improve the T2 rust resistance but I have seen several and heard of even more Yak Holdups being sent back to Yakima for rust in the first 3-4 months. I do think they should all coat their racks and hardware better for the prices they charge but my T2 is no worse than anything else I have owned. 

Thule should give you two arms at dealer cost but they are probably becoming cheap. That's what I would probably have done- given you the parts and told you to move somewhere else.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

I'd like to see them make more of these racks from Aluminum. Steel is just too heavy for a 4 bike rack, never mind the corrosion and painting issues.

J.


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## KAHAIKAPU (Sep 28, 2008)

JohnJ80 said:


> I'd like to see them make more of these racks from Aluminum. Steel is just too heavy for a 4 bike rack, never mind the corrosion and painting issues.
> 
> J.


:thumbsup: that would be nice..but the price would be higher i think.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

The reason I posted this is so you get the idea that Thule's customer service sucks. After waiting 9 months, it's time to say something.

There's people up Hubbard with the same racks for as long as me without this problem. We all ride the same seasons and live in the same area. Mine and one other had similar problems. Mine is worse. Joe got rid of his when he got another vehicle.

Once again, this has been going on for *9+ months*. If Thule took care of this in 8 months, I wouldn't have this posted.

Would you wait that long for a derailleur hanger from your frame manufacturer before you warned fellow riders?

If you want to buy a Thule, then go for it. I supported them in the past. The link to that other thread I posted, I was supporting them all the way. Will I support Thule or recommend them in the shop? Not one bit. People up Hubbard see the rack weekly. Someone always asks jokingly, "Where's the bike?" when I pull in. When I explain why it's in the back and they see the rack, people ask "9 months! Why's it made of steel anyway?"

60+ riders a week, I think Thule got their customer service point across to these people.

I'm not trashing them, they've done it to themselves. Remember, they're great until you need something.

Flyer, It's different to voice "opinions" than "experiences". These people live elsewhere and don't offer "experience" with these conditions. They do however offer that "narrow-mindedness" that it is in no way Thule's fault for making the rack out of steel. The cars in this area don't fail and neither did all of these other racks. Roof racks or hitch racks that is. One is made of steel with a lifetime warranty. That's their warranty. They don't say it excludes rust. If it did, no one in their right mind would buy one. But some did and now need this non-existent warranty.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Actually, you are trashing them and making every effort to make it stick. Otherwise you'd deal with Thule until it would all be done. If you were looking for solutions on why this happened and what was unique to your application, then that would be different. But that's not what this is about or your wouldn't have told all of us who were trying to figure it out to go take a (figurative) hike.

I have four different rack brands and I'm about equally invested in all of them (Thule, Yakima, 1UpUSA and Inno). My experience with Thule doesn't match yours - they've been quite good and helpful in customer service. I also think that there are two sides to every story and we've not heard from Thule (and properly, we won't). 

I'm sure you feel wronged, and maybe you were - but then again, maybe you weren't. It is certain that Thule customer service is not 100% like you say it is or I would not have had the positive experiences I've had with them in multiple dealings with them over 10 years. I can't possibly be the only one for whom Thule has been a solid supplier with good customer service.

J.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

I never said Thule is like this to everyone. I stated to be prepared to wait forever.

Also, you guys, the 4-5 of you are the ones keeping this thread hot. I'm just replying to your post. Because of that...

The squeaky wheel gets the grease-
I just got off the phone with one of Thule's higher-ups (Stephen) and was told that I will get an entirely new rack. He doesn't like to see Thule's name attached to a rack in bad condition. Stephen also said it's really uncalled for to wait for CS to come through for the length of a pregnancy.

Stephen also commented on the "car wash theory" and said that the car wash is fine and won't damage the rack. The soap or frequent washing won't bother it. That shoots down JohnJ80, SAL9000, kntr and skyliner1004 theory as to me abusing the rack that way.

Thanks to Stephen and Scott at www.cracksandracks.com for getting this taken care of.


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## Blksocks (Dec 22, 2009)

Some serious hardcore Thule owners here.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

No kidding


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> I never said Thule is like this to everyone. I stated to be prepared to wait forever.
> 
> Also, you guys, the 4-5 of you are the ones keeping this thread hot. I'm just replying to your post. Because of that...
> 
> ...


At the end of the day stuff just doesn't rust like that under even remotely normal conditions. Whatever it is that ruined your T2 had better be corrected before you find yourself on yet another quest. I don't mean to keep picking and poking, I'm just sayin'...


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## bvibert (Mar 30, 2006)

SAL9000 said:


> At the end of the day stuff just doesn't rust like that under even remotely normal conditions. Whatever it is that ruined your T2 had better be corrected before you find yourself on yet another quest. I don't mean to keep picking and poking, I'm just sayin'...


Are you for real? Did you ever think that maybe just maybe there was some sort of manufacturing defect on a small run of parts that caused the problem? Because stuff like that never happens... 

Are you that hellbent on on proving that Larry _must_ have done something wrong? Did he steal a girl from you or something? Take your lunch money at recess??

He appears to have gotten things taken care of, and Thule finds nothing wrong with his usage of the rack. Leave the guy alone already.

Larry, I'm glad you made some progress on this, I hope that's the end of it!


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

LarryFahn said:


> I never said Thule is like this to everyone. I stated to be prepared to wait forever.
> 
> Also, you guys, the 4-5 of you are the ones keeping this thread hot. I'm just replying to your post. Because of that...
> 
> ...


That's great news. Cool.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

bvibert said:


> Are you for real? Did you ever think that maybe just maybe there was some sort of manufacturing defect on a small run of parts that caused the problem? Because stuff like that never happens...
> 
> Are you that hellbent on on proving that Larry _must_ have done something wrong? Did he steal a girl from you or something? Take your lunch money at recess??
> 
> ...


Word! It's the same 3 trolls posting in this thread too. 

Karma came back and got me for posting to that guy in the other thread about how he was all wrong. He wasn't wrong though, I was.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

JohnJ80 said:


> You brought the whole issue here I would presume to get people to give you their thoughts on why this was happening. That has occurred. Perhaps you had a different motivation - to damage Thule? Enlighten us.
> 
> If it's none of those things and given that Thule has made scads of these things and this is apparently a rather singular incident, I'd be looking hard at your usage, behavior and maintenance of this thing. It's the only difference noted so far from others that own one.
> 
> ...


Read the title, Larry stated clearly. 
Thule accepted the claim, but done a piss poor job of keeping the customer happy, due to whatever reason. OP did not start talking about Thule not warrantying the product, but kept dragging their feet for 9 mos.

Don't know, and don't care about the defect, misused or what caused it. Everyone can guess but in the end, this thread is not about that. It's about lack of communication and customer service. OP motivation is just that expose Thule for their poor Customer Service.

This thread has been running for a week now, I don't see Thule stepping in and defend themselves. However, I see cracksandracks.com helping OP fixing the problem, good job:thumbsup:

There's something wrong with his rack for sure. We don't know the cause. It could be anything, but OP is not here to discuss that. He's discussing the amount of time for Thule to resolve the issues completely.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

bvibert said:


> Are you for real? Did you ever think that maybe just maybe there was some sort of manufacturing defect on a small run of parts that caused the problem? Because stuff like that never happens...
> 
> Are you that hellbent on on proving that Larry _must_ have done something wrong? Did he steal a girl from you or something? Take your lunch money at recess??
> 
> ...


At what point will you blame 'Larry's' troll bait title?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

SAL9000 said:


> At what point will you blame 'Larry's' troll bait title?


Bait, catch, and reel you in! It worked:thumbsup: You're too easy. 49 post and probably 30 of them in this thread alone. Once again, you're keeping this thread HOT!

mimi1885- You nailed it.

In the end though, Thule did step up. I do understand them not posting on here. This incident was between them and me... Unfortunately for too long and that's what lead to this post in the first place. Once it was posted on here though, the problem was resolved. I hope. I'm waiting for the rack, but Stephen said it would ship as soon as they get more in.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Glad it was all taken care off, admittedly a bit too slowly. Stuff like this may help improve products, though usually not unless it is a publicized epidemic. Anyway, you're good to go so I think this one can rest.


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## SAL9000 (Apr 16, 2010)

...


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

his new rack will likely see the same problems. its not thule's fault that the rack rusted. his entire hitch and underbody rusted. i just checked my 3 year old hitch and 5 year old vehicle, there is about 1/50th as much rust on mine as there is on the OP's car. i live in NY. 

The new rack is going to see the same rust. But go ahead OP, keep washing the rack every week. Or you can get some meds for that ocd you got.


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## the-one1 (Aug 2, 2008)

mimi1885 said:


> .................... It's about lack of communication and customer service. OP motivation is just that expose Thule for their poor Customer Service. ..................................... He's discussing the amount of time for Thule to resolve the issues completely.


Agreed. Amazing what people miss by NOT reading the OP.



skyliner1004 said:


> his new rack will likely see the same problems. its not thule's fault that the rack rusted. his entire hitch and underbody rusted. i just checked my 3 year old hitch and 5 year old vehicle, there is about 1/50th as much rust on mine as there is on the OP's car. i live in NY.
> 
> The new rack is going to see the same rust. But go ahead OP, keep washing the rack every week. Or you can get some meds for that ocd you got.


1/50th eh? Must not be driven in the snow when it snows when salt is poured onto the streets. Or you have an underbody coating. Heck my 98 beat up Audi A4 is not as rusted as my '03 Protege, but that is due to the underbody coating of the A4.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

skyliner1004 said:


> The new rack is going to see the same rust. But go ahead OP, keep washing the rack every week. Or you can get some meds for that ocd you got.


Your lack of reading or comprehension is unreal. Thule said washing the rack won't cause this problem... THULE SAID THAT. Re-read that and see if you comprehend that.

What's your answer to how often the rack should get washed? Oh, that's right, it doesn't matter!

Let it rest already...

ttyl, Fahn


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## KAHAIKAPU (Sep 28, 2008)

mimi1885 said:


> Read the title, Larry stated clearly.
> Thule accepted the claim, but done a piss poor job of keeping the customer happy, due to whatever reason. OP did not start talking about Thule not warrantying the product, but kept dragging their feet for 9 mos.
> 
> Don't know, and don't care about the defect, misused or what caused it. Everyone can guess but in the end, this thread is not about that. It's about lack of communication and customer service. OP motivation is just that expose Thule for their poor Customer Service.
> ...


 good luck bro..


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> What's your answer to how often the rack should get washed? Oh, that's right, it doesn't matter!


keep washing your rack once a week use moar soap dis time, it may get some of dat rust off your car. ocd meds ftw


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## cracksandracks.com (Oct 22, 2009)

while the discussion about the care and treatment of hitch racks is productive, bashing the op, and thule isn't. 

thule isn't going to come onto this forum and articulate their position, expectedly so. 

i chose to help larry fahn for 3 reasons. first and foremost, we are a thule dealer, and a proud thule dealer. i have built a business around this brand because i feel they make top-shelf products, and i unmistakingly stand behind them. why the original 

second, i helped larry fahn because he, like other posters on this forum, share a similar passion for quality and "things done right".

3rd, i love mountain biking. i find great satisfaction when i climb onto my bike, clip in, and take the first few turns of the cranks. i love everything about it, and want other people to love it to. i don't race, i just ride. and if larry doesn't have a rack, he won't ride. the world would be a much better place if everyone rode fat tires. 

we are here to help solve people's problems. sometimes that figuring out how to carry their bike on a car, other times it's helping someone who feels beaten down by the man. we don't always have the right answer or the right product, but we don't bullsh*t people just for a sale. 

could larry fahn have handled this situation differently? maybe. could thule have handled it differently? probably. but in the end, everything works out and both parties learn from it....

go back to the first post in this thread, and you'll see larry's update and resolution to this specific problem.

now, onwards and upwards, i'm starting to think i need a 29er. real bad.


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## jcaino (May 26, 2007)

Glad to see this got resolved!


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## hysteriamk2 (May 30, 2010)

I would like to say that i'm having rust colored water dry on my car coming from my Thule T2 and i bought it brand new less than 2 weeks ago. Never taked it through the wash. it has gone through rain outside though. Pretty unsure of what to think at this point....


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

cracksandracks.com said:


> while the discussion about the care and treatment of hitch racks is productive, bashing the op, and thule isn't.
> 
> thule isn't going to come onto this forum and articulate their position, expectedly so.
> 
> ...


Good job and i appreciate what you did. Besides that, that's the Thule I know and who have always shown me good customer service.

J.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

hysteriamk2 said:


> I would like to say that i'm having rust colored water dry on my car coming from my Thule T2 and i bought it brand new less than 2 weeks ago. Never taked it through the wash. it has gone through rain outside though. Pretty unsure of what to think at this point....


I dont get this rust issue on the newer T2s. I have the ORIGINAL Sportworks and it has no sign of rust. I have a new Thule 2 bike add on and it shows no sign either.

Did they change the material of the inner part on the newer racks?


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

kntr said:


> I dont get this rust issue on the newer T2s. I have the ORIGINAL Sportworks and it has no sign of rust. I have a new Thule 2 bike add on and it shows no sign either.
> 
> Did they change the material of the inner part on the newer racks?


no theydidn't, like we've said. the OP is doing something wrong with the steel trailer hitch and steel rack. look at all that rust on his car.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

skyliner1004 said:


> no theydidn't, like we've said. the OP is doing something wrong with the steel trailer hitch and steel rack. look at all that rust on his car.


He is not the only one with rusty water coming out from the rack. Ive heard this from a few other people. Ive NEVER had rust come out of mine and mine is OLD and used. Plus, I wash and wipe mine down every few weeks.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

I don't either. There is something unique about this particular situation. It's not just water or anything like that, it's something else. That said, it's over now and we'll never know.

J.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

skyliner1004 said:


> no theydidn't, like we've said. the OP is doing something wrong with the steel trailer hitch and steel rack. look at all that rust on his car.





kntr said:


> *He is not the only one with rusty water coming out from the rack. Ive heard this from a few other people*. Ive NEVER had rust come out of mine and mine is OLD and used. Plus, I wash and wipe mine down every few weeks.


skyliner1004, you really need to learn HOW TO READ. I'm not the only one here with this problem genius. But YOU do know everything!



hysteriamk2 said:


> I would like to say that* I'm having rust colored water dry on my car coming from my Thule T2 and i bought it brand new less than 2 weeks ago. Never taked it through the wash. it has gone through rain outside though.* Pretty unsure of what to think at this point....


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## skyliner1004 (Jan 7, 2010)

LarryFahn said:


> skyliner1004, you really need to learn HOW TO READ. I'm not the only one here with this problem genius. But YOU do know everything!


you are the only one in this thread who washes his rack every week, lol. My T2 is fine, my hitch is fine. Just checked the bottom of my car, no rust like yours. Just checked my cousins 2 SUV's with hitches, no rust either. Checked my cheapo sportrack, no rust. You're doin something wrong fool. Was it worth the 9-10 month wait? I would've just bought another rack 8 months ago. You on min. wage or something?


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

It was worth the wait. It didn't cost me anything. Thule stepped up and took care of it for me. Besides, if someone makes minimum wage, does that mean that their rack isn't covered by a lifetime warranty? The $400+ I saved will cover rent, a loan, utilities or go into savings so some day I can buy a house instead of rent. Oh well, I had to work for my money and I'm protective of it. Some people just get it from mom and dad.


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