# Five.Ten SPD shoes--OK for both?



## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

First of all, this is not a question about the relative merits of flats vs. clipless. Plenty of opinions about that.

I'm currently riding on flat pedals with Five.Ten Freerider shoes and I'm pretty happy with them overall. At some point though, I'd like to try clipless and maybe switch around some.

FiveTen makes a couple models of SPD shoes (Minaar and Hellcat) and I was wondering if anyone had experience with using one of these as an "dual-purpose" shoe? I think you can keep the SPD inserts and put them back on the shoe if you wanted to go with flat pedals and take them out for clipless. 

I know that dual-purpose pedals are pretty much a PITA, but what about dual-purpose shoes?

(I really like the FiveTens--they are fine as an all-around casual shoe as well as for riding--although the Freeriders are meant to be less bike-specific than some of their shoes.)


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

There's no such thing as a shoe that is good at two things. As long as you have the giant metal piece underfoot you'll never get good grip off of a flat pedal. If you take the cleat off then you're left with a cavity where the cleat goes. You already have a great pair of shoes for flat pedals, get a pair of clipless shoes that are just for that purpose. You'll either ride one or the other, you'll never be riding both kinds of pedals. You'll learn what kind of trail is better for what kind of pedal, it's very common to want a different pedal for a different trail.


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> There's no such thing as a shoe that is good at two things. As long as you have the giant metal piece underfoot you'll never get good grip off of a flat pedal. If you take the cleat off then you're left with a cavity where the cleat goes. You already have a great pair of shoes for flat pedals, get a pair of clipless shoes that are just for that purpose. You'll either ride one or the other, you'll never be riding both kinds of pedals. You'll learn what kind of trail is better for what kind of pedal, it's very common to want a different pedal for a different trail.


I hear ya.... I guess I was thinking that if you saved the "cover", you could put it back on....but that's a lot of trouble even if it would work--taking off the cleat and re-installing the cover.

Another reason I started thinking along these lines are that Freeriders are supposedly more of a skate/casual shoe and some of the more bike-specific FiveTens are more suited to biking. Since I have nothing to compare them to, and I have been a little less than impressed with the "grippiness" of the Freeriders, I started daydreaming....

BTW, the pedals are Wellgo MG-52's with 8 pins:


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Porschefan said:


> I hear ya.... I guess I was thinking that if you saved the "cover", you could put it back on....but that's a lot of trouble even if it would work--taking off the cleat and re-installing the cover.
> 
> Another reason I started thinking along these lines are that Freeriders are supposedly more of a skate/casual shoe and some of the more bike-specific FiveTens are more suited to biking. Since I have nothing to compare them to, and I have been a little less than impressed with the "grippiness" of the Freeriders, I started daydreaming....
> 
> BTW, the pedals are Wellgo MG-52's with 8 pins:


Well the covers will in fact go back on, but aligning the cleats can be a huge PITA.

While I have no experience with 5.10 shoes I can say that you could probably benefit from a more grippy pedal. As far as I'm concerned the pinnacle of grip as far as pedals are concerned are the Straitlines. They have two rows of pins over most flats and that makes a difference. I have a very similar pedal to yours and I also have Straitlines; with the same shoe (DC skate shoe) there is a HUGE difference from the set screw pinned pedal to the Straitlines. But, of course, they're going to cost you.

What movement is causing you to loose traction on the pedals? Pedaling? Jumping? Rough trail sections?


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> Well the covers will in fact go back on, but aligning the cleats can be a huge PITA.


Yeah, doesn't really seem practical. And you already have to switch the pedals too. I actually have a pair of cheap "Forte" (Performance Bike) SPD shoes so I can try those. I'm going to be sticking mainly to the flats for awhile though.



> While I have no experience with 5.10 shoes I can say that you could probably benefit from a more grippy pedal. As far as I'm concerned the pinnacle of grip as far as pedals are concerned are the Straitlines. They have two rows of pins over most flats and that makes a difference. I have a very similar pedal to yours and I also have Straitlines; with the same shoe (DC skate shoe) there is a HUGE difference from the set screw pinned pedal to the Straitlines. But, of course, they're going to cost you.


I know. More than shoes! The other flat pedal that gets rave reviews are the Canfield Bros. Crampons (pic below). Those are very narrow and nicely made. I have a hard time understanding how 4 more pins can make a lot of difference though.



> What movement is causing you to loose traction on the pedals? Pedaling? Jumping? Rough trail sections?


Mostly rough sections where my feet are jarred off the pedals. Also, I find it difficult to adjust my feet while pedaling, especially when starting up, and putting my second foot onto the pedal. I called FiveTen and asked whether the Freerider soles were the same rubber compound as their other shoes and they said it was identical.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

Porschefan;8218150
Mostly rough sections where my feet are jarred off the pedals. Also said:


> Try riding with your heels down a little bit through rough sections. Any good shoe/pedal combo is not going to allow you to be able to reposition your foot easily without picking your foot up and replacing it on the pedal. I find that I get a few pedal strokes in, get my momentum up then adjust my feet if they need it.
> 
> From what I've been told the crampons are really nice but I don't have any experience with them. There's a lot of good pedals out there but some do stand out above the others.


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

zebrahum said:


> Try riding with your heels down a little bit through rough sections. Any good shoe/pedal combo is not going to allow you to be able to reposition your foot easily without picking your foot up and replacing it on the pedal. I find that I get a few pedal strokes in, get my momentum up then adjust my feet if they need it.
> 
> From what I've been told the crampons are really nice but I don't have any experience with them. There's a lot of good pedals out there but some do stand out above the others.


Thanks. I do see that the Crampons have 18 pins and the Straitlines 14--so that really is a substantial increase. I'll keep my eyes peeled for a good deal. The Crampons are REALLY thin too.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

zebrahum said:


> There's no such thing as a shoe that is good at two things. As long as you have the giant metal piece underfoot you'll never get good grip off of a flat pedal. If you take the cleat off then you're left with a cavity where the cleat goes. You already have a great pair of shoes for flat pedals, get a pair of clipless shoes that are just for that purpose. You'll either ride one or the other, you'll never be riding both kinds of pedals. You'll learn what kind of trail is better for what kind of pedal, it's very common to want a different pedal for a different trail.


I would have to disagree with zebraham. He is mostly correct in that a lot of combos don't work well. For instance, dual sided clipless pedals are awkward because you will feel the raised portion of the spring part under the ball of your foot no matter which side you are on. And any plastic-like race mtb shoe wont grab the pins on the platform side of the pedal.

I feel though after many many hours of reading reviews and three seasons of racing that I found a combo that is a winner. At least for me.

I use wellgo wam d10 pedals and the rubber soled shimano mt42 and now forte traverse.
the Mavic Alpines would work well also. I did have to trim a little rubber off the sole of the fortes to get full clearance to clip in.

I love my setup, it works perfect. I can ride platform on the scary stuff and when I want to be able to pogo stick my handlebars on steep ledgy downhills. The spd cleat on the shoe
just dosen't line up where it might be a problem. Clip side I use the ball of my feet but when I switch to platform it is more under the arch of my foot. (Sometimes under my heel by accident but just keep cranking until up the hill! lol) When I want to clip, I just rotate the crank one turn and the pedal is ready. Blam. Also since I use a different part of the foot to pedal each way I am "fresher" after switching and can really crank down and go.
Peace


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## CT3 (May 27, 2010)

Would getting a pair of shimano am45 shoes and a set of mallets to clip into. Then when u only want to ride flat. Take out the cleats so the beater just sits in the crevice of the shoe. Would this work?


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## Porschefan (Jan 14, 2011)

bamwa1 said:


> I would have to disagree with zebraham. He is mostly correct in that a lot of combos don't work well. For instance, dual sided clipless pedals are awkward because you will feel the raised portion of the spring part under the ball of your foot no matter which side you are on. And any plastic-like race mtb shoe wont grab the pins on the platform side of the pedal.
> 
> I feel though after many many hours of reading reviews and three seasons of racing that I found a combo that is a winner. At least for me.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting take--thanks for writing it up. I've never seen those pedals before and they seem like an attempt, at least, to get the "best of both worlds". Just so I understand what you are saying--the cleat on your shoes just sits into the open section when you are on the flat side of the pedals? Where that leaves your foot would be the key point, I would think. Also there's the hassle of flipping the pedal around so the side you want is "up" when you want it. Another issue might be the small number of pins on the flat side--I'm getting that feedback about the M-52's that I have and they have 8 pins vs. 14-18 on the high-priced flat brands.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

bamwa1 said:


> I would have to disagree with zebraham. He is mostly correct in that a lot of combos don't work well.


It's cool, there's lots of ways to ride a bike and as long as it's working for you it's all good. I would just add that there is absolutely no comparison between any combo pedal platform and a high end flat pedal. With every pedal that tries to bridge the gap you'll make a compromise. The big call you have to make is wether or not that compromise will work for you. For many people, the compromise will not be an actual compromise, for others there may be a noticeable difference. It all depends on what you're expecting, but there's a huge difference between a pedal like the Crampons and Straitlines when compared to any of the combo pedals out there.


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

Interestingly enough, I just had my first ride on new shoes last night. Louis Garneaux Bromont. (had to 
try the velcro). To my surprise, they worked awesome on both sides of the pedal no matter where I placed my feet on the platform(I could crank with my heels if I want). The platform side grabbed the shoe solidly and the clip side clipped nicely without having to shave any rubber off the sole. With my other shoes I could feel a bit more when I had clip side up(slight bump under ball of foot) but the more ridged sole it was harder to tell. However a little glance down is all I need to see which side is which. As for the pedals, however many spikes the d10's have is more than adequate, and like I said before the bearings are stiff enough that it you lift your foot for a half crank the other side comes up. Those pedals don't just spin wildly. I have to glance down while switching sometimes but I glance down to check things out while shifting the front derailleur micro adjust so I'm used to that. Most times I can switch blind however. To zebrahum: I am fully committed to sparkle motion.lol sparkle on.

p.s. I guess my real point is I wouldn't be afraid to try those shoes. They are probably awesome.


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