# Another New, Promising XM-L2 Light



## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Since nobody has posted about this light, I guess it's up to me to point it out. No, I don't own it and I haven't decided if I'm going to buy it.

Interesting features are:

Uses two XM-L2 LEDs. The descripton doesn't list which brightness bin
The single button control is on a wired remote. It looks to be suitable for mounting near the grip. That woud keep your hands on, or near the bars.
A little blocky for my taste, but looks well finned to aid in cooling. The top corners add a little mass which may add to the body's heatsynk abilities
Looks to be a High->Mid->Low->Strobe interface -- Not exactly a favorite on this forum
Very small point. Instead of the usual brand and model etched into the top of the light, it has a sort of weird, but kind of cool looking logo. A face I think. The branding is on the battery bag.
It seems to come in a bag, insted of a box with foam. I kind of like the boxes for storage, but my lights mostly stay on the bars or helmet
TrustFire TR-D002 2*Cree XM-L2 4-Mode 2000-Lumen LED Bike Light

If you buy it from FastTech don't forget the "TENOFF" code, which ironically is a 5% discount. Takes it down to $42.05, shipping included.

It is one of those "fire" brands, so who knows what the battery is like.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Nice find!

That's the same remote that I got with my 808E from action led. It's very nice. I see a lot of them on ebay lights. Must be some sort of off-the-shelf part that's widely available. I mounted mine near the brake lever. I can't quite reach it without taking taking my hand of the grip, but it's real close. It's a little bit too tall, and a little bit too far away from the lever to be able to do that. Still having a remote is much much better than having to touch the light.

Same crappy UI. When are these guys going to learn? I think it's just a flashlight driver. Oh well, for $45 you can't have it all. 

Still, having all of these dual-led lights is awesome in my opinion, especially at this price point. Makes it hard to justify laying out $200-$300 for a real light. It's a great time to be in the market for a light. 

Two other points. First, the handlebar mount looks a little different, I assume it's just a standard rubber band mount. Second, battery connector look like a standard magicshine. That's a huge plus in my opinion, maybe even enough to justify purchase by itself.

How do think this compares to the light you bought Ian?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Good find Ian! Looks like Fasttech is going to continue to be a major player in affordable ( but interesting ) bike lights. I agree with just about everything you said. These ( magicshine type ) remotes are a bit klunky but should work. No mention was made to how the lamp turns on/off. I'm not sure which is better; have the strobe included in the main menu or the on/off.  I figure if the lamp works well you'll just deal with it because the price makes this worth the trouble. "Trustfire" is not the most dependable brand so don't expect too much from the battery and especially from the charger. While the build of this lamp is "basic block" at least it has some machining which ( already pointed out ) should aid in cooling. 

This is the first Chinese made duel emitter lamp that I am aware of that is using the XM-L2 emitter. Because of this it is tempting to buy one but I might wait a while to see what the other Chinese outlets come out with. I figure they shouldn't be too far behind. Kudos to Fasttech in releasing these. I've said it before and I'll say it again, "The early bird gets the worm". Being first has it's advantages. 

In the mean time the people from Gloworm have told me that they plan on an XM-L2 version of the X2. It will cost more ( likely ) but than again it will be a much nicer UI / system.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Don't expect anything special from this light. It's just a D-50/Solarstorm X2 with external button, nothing more. And I really doubt that it uses XM-L2 emitters.



> First, the handlebar mount looks a little different, I assume it's just a standard rubber band mount.


It uses trustfire mount, which is a bit different. Its a quick-release mount with screw to tighten it on handlebar. 
Manafont.com | $44 TrustFire TR-D002 2-LED 4-Mode BicycleLight (4*18650 Battery Pack Inlcuded) - more pics here, you can also look at mount of other trustfire lights on fasttech, its the same thing.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank for the link.

That mount looks pretty good to me. Doesn't cateye make something similar that is supposedly a good mount. I wouldn't count out this light, it has a some good features. A remote, standard connector, newest emitter, and possibly better mount are big pluses in my book. We really have no comparison between the four major dual emitter lights as far as beam shots go. That would be the deciding factor for most people. This light appears to have an elliptical beam, similar to a 808 with the wide-angle-lens from action led.


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## 33696933 (Sep 5, 2010)

Also Fasttech have the Shadow BL20 which also is a dual XM-L2 emitter light was added about 5 days earlier then this. I bought one and it should be here end of the week. Only thing is it probably doesn't fit oversize handlebars by the looks of the mount.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Kir said:


> Don't expect anything special from this light. It's just a D-50/Solarstorm X2 with external button, nothing more. And I really doubt that it uses XM-L2 emitters.


Both the "head on" shot on Fasttech and the inset photo at Manafront show an LED with a white circuit board. That's the halmark of an L2. All the erlier generations had green.

The Manafront pix show that the battery has a nice silicon shell. My Xeccon has a similar shell. I like that much better than shrink-wrap.

The mount looks to be a Quick Release style. Not all that Q when you also have the R the O-ring on the button.

Here's another L2 light to add to the mix:
SHADOW BL20 2*Cree XM-L2 T6 4-Mode 1600-Lumen LED Bike Light


XM-L2 T6 brightness bin - An L2 T6 is a little brighter than an XM-L U3. (ref: Flash Light Wiki - Brighteness Bins )
Battery connector is different than the standard MS style
UI is 3 sec hold for off (not mentioned on FastTech - have asked them to add it) - double click for strobe. When trying to move high to low, you may trigger strobe if you're too quick. I've had that happen on the JM-07
The mount may be problmatic on some bars
There is an optional battery tube for 26650s. FastTech is trying to get ahold of it and add it to their system
Shadow makes beautiful stuff. The first light I bought for the bars was a JM-07. Built like a tank, with 26650 batterie(s) and a neutral white LED.

The XM-L2s are out there. We will probably see them everywhere soon.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

varider said:


> We really have no comparison between the four major dual emitter lights as far as beam shots go.


Four? D-50, D-99, Solarstorm X2 and?

And speaking of dual XML lights - here is another very interesting one:
Aliexpress.com : Buy Singapore shipping M8 : 1 Set Bike Light CREE XM L T6 LED 2400 Lumen 4 Modes Waterproof + 8.4V Battery Pack + Charger from Reliable bike light suppliers on Dongguan Roadleader Lighting Technology Co., Ltd


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Kir said:


> Four? D-50, D-99, Solarstorm X2 and?
> 
> And speaking of dual XML lights - here is another very interesting one:
> Aliexpress.com : Buy Singapore shipping M8 : 1 Set Bike Light CREE XM L T6 LED 2400 Lumen 4 Modes Waterproof + 8.4V Battery Pack + Charger from Reliable bike light suppliers on Dongguan Roadleader Lighting Technology Co., Ltd


... And this light, the trustfire tr-d002. The shadow makes it five and the Roadleader M8 makes it six. Maybe we need to start a new thread just to keep track of all the dual emitter lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kir said:


> Don't expect anything special from this light. It's just a D-50/Solarstorm X2 with external button, nothing more.* And I really doubt that it uses XM-L2 emitters.*
> 
> It uses trustfire mount, which is a bit different. Its a quick-release mount with screw to tighten it on handlebar.
> Manafont.com | $44 TrustFire TR-D002 2-LED 4-Mode BicycleLight (4*18650 Battery Pack Inlcuded) - more pics here, you can also look at mount of other trustfire lights on fasttech, its the same thing.


About the TR-D002; It's mentioned a couple times that it uses the XM-L2 so I don't doubt the ad. Manafont on the other hand makes no mention at all of what emitter is being used on the model they sell. If you buy from Manafont I'd ask their customer service first about the emitters. Odd that the Fasttech ad doesn't show the mount. If it is like the one shown on the Manafont ad...well, I don't particularly like those type of mounts. Basically it is using a plastic band that has teeth and is tightened by turning a screwing knob. It might work but for how long? Plastic tends to wear out over time and if you over-tighten the plastic threads on the band will likely shear.

The Shadow BL-20 is interesting but has some major negatives. First is the battery which in this case is a big mystery. It is using a two prong connector so this is not MS compatible. Then they say it can also use a tube for a 2 x 26650 set-up so I'm not quite sure what is going on there. Maybe this lamp uses another battery/18650 battery holder set-up (?)
The real screw is the mount. Looks good at first glance till you see that it is only held on by clamping plastic teeth. :nono: All said, you could easily replace the mount and replace the connectors but I really can't see doing that unless there is some other redeeming feature to make it worth the trouble.

I see a couple more interesting offerings from Fasttech but have to get work. I'll talk about that later, see ya Later light fiends ( I mean friends )...


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

Kir said:


> Four? D-50, D-99, Solarstorm X2 and?
> 
> And speaking of dual XML lights - here is another very interesting one:
> Aliexpress.com : Buy Singapore shipping M8 : 1 Set Bike Light CREE XM L T6 LED 2400 Lumen 4 Modes Waterproof + 8.4V Battery Pack + Charger from Reliable bike light suppliers on Dongguan Roadleader Lighting Technology Co., Ltd


So I'm a bit confused, what's an XM-L-T6. I don't think that is an XML-2 at all. I think that is just the XML-T6.

The whole idea of buying the latest product is to actually get the latest product.

Prolly best to wait a bit when they all come out w/ the XML2. On of course by then we'll want the newest version instead of that old XML2. Haha.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Cat-man-do said:


> The Shadow BL-20 is interesting but has some major negatives. First is the battery which in this case is a big mystery. It is using a two prong connector so this is not MS compatible. Then they say it can also use a tube for a 2 x 26650 set-up so I'm not quite sure what is going on there. Maybe this lamp uses another battery/18650 battery holder set-up (?)


Cat, I think the tube they are taking about is to turn the light into a regular flashlight. I was reading the fasttech discussions, and apparently the shadow is clone of light called the Klarus BK20
BK20-Klarus BK20
It's an interesting idea.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

> So I'm a bit confused, what's an XM-L-T6. I don't think that is an XML-2 at all. I think that is just the XML-T6.


T6 is just a brightness bin, XM-L2 is a new led with about 10-20% more light output.
Cree - Flashlight Wiki - here is a good summary of all cree leds and their bins/labeling.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

mb323323 said:


> So I'm a bit confused, what's an XM-L-T6. I don't think that is an XML-2 at all. I think that is just the XML-T6.....


I believe Kir is right. With the original XM-L the T6 bin was the ground breaker ( although there were lower bins ). Now there is an XM-L2 and it too comes in a T6 bin. The two are completely different though in regards to many specifications. Eventually there will be a U-bin XM-L2.

When it comes to the ads, if it doesn't say "XM-L2" but only says T6, I'm assuming they are referring to the original XM-L T6. ( but then again you never know.. ) You have to watch the Chinese ads. If you're not sure about something in the ad best to send off an e-mail or prepare to be disappointed with your order.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

varider said:


> Cat, I think the tube they are taking about is to turn the light into a regular flashlight. I was reading the fasttech discussions, and apparently the shadow is clone of light called the Klarus BK20
> It's an interesting idea.


The guy who postulated that on the FastTech forrum was just wrong. He saw a similar looking light and called this one a clone.

The BL20 is clearly based of Shadow's two headed flashlight the TC750X. I don't know if it's the exact same head, with new electronics, or completely new, scaled from the original. The TC750X runs on 2 x 18650 batteries, so the speculation on the 65530 tube making this a flashlight seem unlikely. From the rear shot of the BK20, I don't think the place where the cable enters the light unscrews with another socket behind it. The wires probably go straight through there, and are soldered to the circuit board.

The description for the BK20 indicates that it includes a 4 x 18650 battery pack. Other Shadow bike lights have been based off 3 x 18650 battery packs, that were shrink wrapped. I would expect that this one is shrink wrapped as well.

The pictures look like an OP reflector, but the description is SMO. I've asked FastTech to confirm which is true. The beam shot looks to have a OP type transition from hotspot to floody portion. I've also asked for FT to update the pix showing the mount and battery out of the bag.

Again, I'll point out that the XM-L2 T6 brightness bin, is slightly brighter than the XM-L U3 bin.

From what I've been able to find on the net, the battery tube reference, is likely a container for 2 x 26650 with either a direct 2 pin screw connector, or cable and screw connector. I'm betting it's just the tube and no batteries. My JM-07 is a 1 or 2 x 26650 light, so it's not a big engineering feat for Shadow to make a tube with cable/connector. It should be fairly inexpensive too. And of course with cheap spacer sleeves you could use 18650's.

I agree that Shadow missed the mark by using something different than the MS type connector. The connector they chose is more secure and more watterproof, but limits the light's appeal to the biking community. If they threw in an addapter, that would be a different kettle of fish. Two previous Shadow bike lights used what appear to be MS type connectors. I wonder why the changed? The SolorStorm X2 uses a screw together, with rubber seal connector, but it IS plug compatable to the MS type connector.

I don't think the Aliexpress "Road Leader M8" fits in this grouping. It is a previous gen XM-L T6, and with shipping is $112.11. At that price, I'd go with a name brand. The D-99 & D-50 are both XM-L T6's. So maybe my nixing it on LED generation is off base.

We're polking at lights in the around $50 or less price point. The Shadow, with discount, pushes that to $56 including shipping. That's close enough for hand grenades and horse shoes.

Nothing in this price category is perfect. The D-99 has thermal conduction issues. Shadow & SolarStorm aren't using MS connectors. The TR-D002 and the Shadow use different mounts. Someone said the D-50 wasn't well made (no details though). The user interfaces aren't top notch. They all have their plusses and minuses.

I'm not shilling for Shadow. In the flashlight world they have a good reputation. The same kind of manufacturing tier as Xeccon -- above no-name, but below name brand. And as I said, my JM-07 is very well made, and built like a tank with good termal management. I anticipate that the build quality on the the BK20 will be top notch.

I really hope that 33696933 posts his first impressions of the Shadow. Based on my experience with FastTech, he should receive it today or early next week. It will be interesting to see if it lives up to the specs, and belongs in the "Promising" catagory.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

*Other lamps from Fasttech*

In keeping with comments about the Fasttech offerings, I find these two lamps very interesting. Not using the XM-L2 but but still should have awesome output especially the the five-up.

This quad 4-mode XM-L T-6 and this Five-up XM-L T-6 5-mode.

I own a quad lamp but mine is only three modes. Having the extra mode for ( mid-mode ) will make this lamp really useful. I would love to see the output from the five up. It will draw juice on high but has enough lower modes to make it worth buying. I hate the mount but if I really wanted killer output I could work around that. Since the emitters are spaced out this lamp should handle heat better although the trade off is extra weight.

Damn, my trigger finger is starting to twitch...not a good sign. I'll have to hide the credit card.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Ian_C said:


> The BL20 is clearly based of Shadow's two headed flashlight the TC750X.


But the whole idea of using 2 led flashlight as bike light was copied from klarus 



> I don't think the Aliexpress "Road Leader M8" fits in this grouping. It is a previous gen XM-L T6, and with shipping is $112.11. At that price, I'd go with a name brand.


What defines "name brand"? Why is RoadLeader worse than xeccon/shadow/magicshine? 
Yes, they're new and unknown atm. But it looks like they're using good quality cases, good batteries, external button with 5 steps battery indicator etc. And it just looks very nice, much better than TR-D002 imo 



> Someone said the D-50 wasn't well made (no details though).


Someone was wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with D-50. In fact it has one of the best thermal designs from chinese bike lights.



> Again, I'll point out that the XM-L2 T6 brightness bin, is slightly brighter than the XM-L U3 bin.
> The D-99 & D-50 are both XM-L T6's.


Why is everybody here is obsessed with led bins and maximum brightness? 
All, and i really mean *ALL* chinese bike lights use the cheapest leds available. Usually its T6 with horrible ~7000k color temperature. Some new lights may use XM-L2, but again it will be the cheapest "cool white" bin.
But bike riding really needs warm white ~4000k leds, maybe even 2700-3000k. Every custom build that i've seen uses such leds and I personally replace leds in all my bike lights with T5-5C XM-L leds.

So it doesn't matter what leds are included with bike light since you're going to replace them anyway if you want a good light - only case design and driver (max current, voltage indication, etc) are important.



> I would love to see the output from the five up. It will draw juice on high but has enough lower modes to make it worth buying. I hate the mount but if I really wanted killer output I could work around that. Since the emitters are spaced out this lamp should handle heat better although the trade off is extra weight.


I don't think that you want more than 3-4 leds pointed in same direction. I have 3 XML version of that light and its already huge and heavy enough - 5 XML will be too big for ultrafire mount. And 3 XML gives you more than enough light, 2 more leds with just make the hotspot too bright.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kir said:


> ...Why is everybody here is obsessed with led bins and maximum brightness?
> All, and i really mean *ALL* chinese bike lights use the cheapest leds available. *Usually its T6 with horrible ~7000k color temperature. Some new lights may use XM-L2, but again it will be the cheapest "cool white" bin.*
> But bike riding really needs warm white ~4000k leds, maybe even 2700-3000k. Every custom build that i've seen uses such leds and I personally replace leds in all my bike lights with T5-5C XM-L leds.
> 
> ...


Not all the Chinese lamps are using horrible bins. Most of the stuff I have is the nice bright white. The Fandyfire D99 lamp has some bluish tint to it as does my first generation Dinotte 600L. I also have a couple torches with some bluish tint, other than that most of the stuff I have looks nice.

I agree with you though that visual acuity is better with the lower temperature spectrum range. Personally I like the 5000K range ( "K" for Kelvin ). I think most bright white LEDs are somewhere in the 6000K range. Anything higher tends to lean toward bluish. The 4000K range looks very much like halogen lights. I have a Xeccon X-12 helmet lamp with U2 bin and one with XM-L2, same lamp, different emitter. The one with the XM-L2 is warmer and gives more detail. I don't think cooler bin XM-L2's are available yet. If they are they are special orders.

I think one of the reasons why companies are not offering warmer bins is that it raises the cost of manufacturing. That and the fact that the output on lamps using warmer bins tends to be deceptive when first viewed ( they don't look real bright at first glance but this is deceptive because lux output is still high ). Cool bins have more dramatic effect, at least in my opinion when doing comparisons. Still a good duel or three up bar lamp using 5000K - 4500K ranged XM-L2's would provide the best light spectrum for highlighting trail features. Not sure we'll going to see marketing of these anytime soon. For the time being the XM-L2's that are standard T6 look pretty good.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Kir said:


> But the whole idea of using 2 led flashlight as bike light was copied from klarus


I think that point is debatable.



Kir said:


> What defines "name brand"? Why is RoadLeader worse than xeccon/shadow/magicshine?


Reputation for one. Reviews by real users. Multiple retailers carring the brand for another. Retailers that will stand behind the product they sell. Companies that will try to make it right if something is DOA or fails.

Do a Google search on Xeccon - lots of hits. Lots of retailers. Even just on MTBR tons of posts. Shadow as a manufacturer - lots of hits. Many sellers. Tons of good rep on the big flashlight sites (Candlepower Forrums & Budget Light Forrums).



Kir said:


> Yes, they're new and unknown atm.


Want to know exactly how New and Unknown. Google it. Only references are Allexpress, the posts in this thread, and the RoadLeader websight. The sight says "Can be made according to customer needs," basically "any way you like, at any price point you want." Their description doesn't even fit the product. They call it a tactical flashlight and rate it at 1/2 the output that Allexpress lists.

Yes I know the Shadow site doesn't list the BL20 yet, which kind of mutes my last point.

I didn't cross the M8 off the list for the brand name - did it because of the price. Delivered, almost 4 times the price of the D99. Almost double the price of the most expensive on the list - the Shadow. (By magic as soon as we started talking about it, Allexpress took $4.50 off the price.)

Maybe the M8 is a good light & worth the money. I look forward to hearing if it does actually live up to the specs.

Did I miss a posting from someone who had the D-50 in their hands. I'll take your word that it has great thermal design.

We haven't gotten hands on reviewes from on any of the L2 lights yet -- Too new. Maybe they're crap. Maybe theyr'e the best thing since sliced bread. Can't wait to find out.



Kir said:


> . . . I personally replace leds in all my bike lights with T5-5C XM-L leds.


I'm glad you've got the skill and technology to reflow solder and replace the LEDs. I don't don't think most people on here looking at a $50 light do. I certainly don't. If I did, I'd probably go with the XM-L2 T6 3C color bin. Nice neutral white at $8 a pop. My JM-07 has a 3C, and it looks very nice on the trail. Maybe if I find myself with 3 or 4 dual emitter lights, I might risk the attempt. At that point, I would probably be better off money wise, to wait for a GlowWorm with the warmer tints.

I guess if your stance is that you'll buy the shell & soup it up, then perhaps you should buy the cheapest shell, and pour in the most soup. At that point you really are doing a custom build. You just didn't machine the case.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Speaking of Shadow BL-20...
http://kaidomain.com/product/Details.S021972
http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S021986



> Did I miss a posting from someone who had the D-50 in their hands. I'll take your word that it has great thermal design.


I did in the thread about it  Actually I have D-50, D-99, D-88, X2 and many other chinese bike lights, I can probably make a comparison or something a bit later.



> I'm glad you've got the skill and technology to reflow solder and replace the LEDs. I don't don't think most people on here looking at a $50 light do.


You don't really have to resolder the leds, most lights use standart 20/16/14mm stars with leds - so you just replace the whole star. And its easy enough, 2 huge solder points and you're done.
But yeah, most ppl don't modify their lights...thats why I do it for them 



> Reputation for one. Reviews by real users. Multiple retailers carring the brand for another. Retailers that will stand behind the product they sell. Companies that will try to make it right if something is DOA or fails.


Ok, good point. I haven't actually thought about that because I prefer to fix things myself.



> I guess if your stance is that you'll buy the shell & soup it up, then perhaps you should buy the cheapest shell, and pour in the most soup. At that point you really are doing a custom build. You just didn't machine the case.


Kinda. I want to make completely custom lights (with good optics like on Fenix BT20), but its too expensive. Atm I'm just modifying and fixing chinese lights in the hope of finding the cheapest way to make a good light


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Kir said:


> I did in the thread about it  Actually I have D-50, D-99, D-88, X2 and many other chinese bike lights, I can probably make a comparison or something a bit later.


Wow, you bought all those lights?
I would love to see a beamshot comparison of those lights. I have the D99, but I'm really not that satisfied with the no-hot-spot beam. I want something that's more like the Magicshine 880 (their top of line dual emitter light). I have the 808e, single emitter light, but it's too spotty for my taste.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Yeah, I wanted to try them myself.
From flood to throw they go like this:
1) D99, pure flood TIR-optics.
2) D-50, basically a complete MJ-880 clone - small reflectors, floody beam with wide hotspot.
3) Solarstorm X2 - bigger reflectors than on D-50, more throw with smaller hotspot.

I'll try to make beamshots and comparison of all chinese 2 XML lights (I also bought TR-D002 and Shadow BL-20, waiting for them to arrive), but atm I just don't have time to do it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kir said:


> Yeah, I wanted to try them myself.
> From flood to throw they go like this:
> 1) D99, pure flood TIR-optics.
> 2) D-50, basically a complete MJ-880 clone - small reflectors, floody beam with wide hotspot.
> ...


Kir, thanks for the quick run-down on beam type for these new Chinese duel set-ups. 
FWIW, I ask the D/X Rep to make some improvements to the D99. Namely, better emitters ( whiter ) and asked that some improvements be made to provide better ( heat sinking ) lamp body contact with the emitter board. I wish now that I had mentioned perhaps better optics as there is certainly room for improvement there.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Kir said:


> Yeah, I wanted to try them myself.
> From flood to throw they go like this:
> 1) D99, pure flood TIR-optics.
> 2) D-50, basically a complete MJ-880 clone - small reflectors, floody beam with wide hotspot.
> ...


You are turning into a real light connoisseur Kir. 
Thanks for the overview. Based on that I think I would probably enjoy the D-50 the most. The dealextreme guy was talking about a possible sale on those. Maybe I'll wait a little while. Or get one from fasttech. I really hate the one-week-before-we-ship dx nonsense. It takes almost a month to get anything from them. Someone said that the X2 did provide enough light to illuminate a two lane road.

The funny thing is that the D99 is a flooder, but the MJ-872 clone that I have is actually brighter and more useful.


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## uiflorin (Dec 6, 2012)

There is a saying: "I am too poor to afford cheap things".

The fancy external design is absolutely useless if the casing in itself is nothing more than an extruded aluminum profile that holds the rest inside by screws. Mounting the LEDs on a piece of aluminum fitting the casing by some thermal paste will not make the case a good heat-sink. The leds will burn and the case will be worm, what a good design! That's what I see on these cheap lights from the fancy pictures. All those fins are useless if the thermal resistance from led to ambient is not in the range of 4 deg C/Watt for a dual led design (16watt max heat from 20Watt input power), meaning the case is not actually CNC machined and the leds do not sit on a solid 6-8 mm aluminum wall in the middle of the case. Ok, for cost purposes they cannot afford CNC machined casing, but at least the thermal resistance could be improved by press fitting inside the aluminum profile a solid piece of aluminum (solid wall) to screw the leds on. No grease, just PRESS FIT to have a good contact and not removable by user. This way the entire thing is close to a CNC machined case.

I work in the electronics industry and I have a fully equipped lab with lathe and CNC machine that I can use for private projects, but it's not worth the effort to modify these lights. Well cooled leds will be more efficient and the lumen output will vary just slightly from start to thermal equilibrium in max output mode. So, why should I buy a cheap light to spend then 3-4 hours for modification that can only improve marginally the performance?

Look at Gloworm X2, it's a solid piece of aluminum with some room for leds in front and fins made from side to side. It's worth the price, because it's designed well. 

If some of you have the lights, please open them and post pictures with the casing, how the leds are in contact with the fancy casing.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

uiflorin said:


> There is a saying: "I am too poor to afford cheap things".
> 
> The fancy external design is absolutely useless if the casing in itself is nothing more than an extruded aluminum profile that holds the rest inside by screws. Mounting the LEDs on a piece of aluminum fitting the casing by some thermal paste will not make the case a good heat-sink. The leds will burn and the case will be worm, what a good design! That's what I see on these cheap lights from the fancy pictures. All those fins are useless if the thermal resistance from led to ambient is not in the range of 4 deg C/Watt for a dual led design (16watt max heat from 20Watt input power), meaning the case is not actually CNC machined and the leds do not sit on a solid 6-8 mm aluminum wall in the middle of the case. Ok, for cost purposes they cannot afford CNC machined casing, but at least the thermal resistance could be improved by press fitting inside the aluminum profile a solid piece of aluminum (solid wall) to screw the leds on. No grease, just PRESS FIT to have a good contact and not removable by user. This way the entire thing is close to a CNC machined case.
> 
> ...


Sorry, this is not the forum thread for Space Shuttle design. This is the forum thread for $40 to $50 Chinese bike lights. If you want state of the art thermal and electrical engineering you look elsewhere. That said, some of these lamps are made a little better than the others and this is what most people want to know about. That is why we talk about this stuff. Few people though are going to dismantle the lamp they just bought just so they can check out it's thermal properties. It needs to be said though that just because one lamp has design flaws doesn't mean they all have the same design flaw.

Most people who buy the Chinese lamps just want something that works and is bright enough to make their night time adventures more pleasant. If the lamp gives them a couple years of use without any problems they will be as happy as the kid that just got his first bike. Two years down the road they will likely buy the newer upgraded model, and so it goes. If the lamp they buy doesn't provide the best thermal transfer properties THEY are going to accept that fact if they don't have the money, skill or tools to either buy a better product or engineer one of their own.

In the mean time fools like me will buy the stuff and continue to giggle over how nice it is to buy something that is about 20% the cost of the higher end products and _*works almost just as well_.( * referring to actual light output )


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Actually uiflorin is absolutely correct - good case with good thermal management is very important. Thats why we have this forum and why we post reviews and pics of our lights, so others can choose a good light based on our experience.

Anyway i got this light. First impressions - very small, almost the same size as D99. Case *is* CNC-machined, leds are mounted with thermal glue on thick aluminium wall, no problems with thermal transfer here. And it uses XM-L2 leds with white board.
Now the bad news - driver is very small and not very powerful, it draws only 1A from external PSU at 8.4V at high, thats the lowest current draw from all 2XML lights. And I'm not sure if driver can be modified for higher power. I'll post pics of the case/driver in a few days.



http://imgur.com/MmiQP

 - here are the comparison pics of all my 2XML lights, with D88 as a bonus


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kir said:


> ....Anyway i got this light. First impressions - very small, almost the same size as D99. Case *is* CNC-machined, leds are mounted with thermal glue on thick aluminium wall, no problems with thermal transfer here. And it uses XM-L2 leds with white board.
> Now the bad news - driver is very small and not very powerful, it draws only 1A from external PSU at 8.4V at high, thats the lowest current draw from all 2XML lights. And I'm not sure if driver can be modified for higher power. I'll post pics of the case/driver in a few days.


Is this the XM-L2 lamp with the wired remote? If the lamp is only supplying 1A to the emitters that would be disappointing. How does the output compare to the other duel emitter lamps you have? Last question, is the driver in the remote casing or inside the lamp casing? I only ask this because the lamp company Xeccon uses a very similar remote casing that houses the driver for their Geinea series of lamps. As such I thought maybe the drivers are in the remote. If so that would explain why the driver output is so low. Dang it! I was considering buying one of these. No sense in doing that if they are only pushing 1A.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Can you get the solarstorm sx as a light head only? I was looking, but couldn't find it. I did find a good deal from alliexpress though($40.50 shipped) for light, battery, charger.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

ironbrewer said:


> Can you get the solarstorm sx as a light head only? I was looking, but couldn't find it. I did find a good deal from alliexpress though($40.50 shipped) for light, battery, charger.


That's a good price, do you have the link? I didn't think anyone was going to under-price Fasttech ( $46.48 )


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## goatman (Nov 14, 2004)

*Aliexpress Solarstorm X2 link*

Here is a link Cat:

Aliexpress.com : Buy 1 Set 2013 SolarStorm X2 Bike Light Waterproof 2 CREE U2 LED 2000LM Bicycle Light + Intelligent Power Indicate + Free Shipping from Reliable Bike light suppliers on Shenzhen East Face Sci&Tech Co., Ltd

I have never ordered off Aliexpress so no input regarding their service etc.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Goatman beat me too it, but I think its the same.

Aliexpress.com : Buy SolarStorm X2 Bicyclelight Dual Head Bikelight Cree XM L U2 LED Max 2000Lumens Power by 4*18650 Battery 4 Modes Free Shipping from Reliable bikelight suppliers on HongKong SkyBen Trade Co.,Ltd


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Is this the XM-L2 lamp with the wired remote? If the lamp is only supplying 1A to the emitters that would be disappointing. How does the output compare to the other duel emitter lamps you have? Last question, is the driver in the remote casing or inside the lamp casing? I only ask this because the lamp company Xeccon uses a very similar remote casing that houses the driver for their Geinea series of lamps. As such I thought maybe the drivers are in the remote. If so that would explain why the driver output is so low. Dang it! I was considering buying one of these. No sense in doing that if they are only pushing 1A.


https://www.fasttech.com/product/1360704 - its this one.
Current on leds will be higher than 1A, probably about 1.5-1.6A on 2 leds in series.

Compared to other dual lights, here is a current draw from external PSU at 8.4V, all lights at maximum mode:
TrustFire TR-D002 - 1A
D99 - 1.3A
D-50 - 1.4A
Solarstorm X2 - 2A

For me it looks like the same output as D99, D-50 and especially SolarStorm X2 are noticably brighter.
Driver is splitted - PWM controller and voltage indicator (4 stage indicator btw, blue-green-yellow-red) are in the button, power board is in the casing. Thats the typical contruction for lights with external button like MJ-816.

And no, its not a bad light at all. Its small, uses XM-L2 leds, has external button (!). Light output could be higher, but it should be bright enough for most ppl.
I'll post detailed pics and measure current on leds soon, gotta measure the battery capacity too.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Found it for slightly cheaper. $39.84 shipped.

Aliexpress.com : Buy 1 Set 2013 SolarStorm X2 Bike Light Waterproof 2 CREE U2 LED 2000LM Bicycle Light + Intelligent Power Indicate + Free Shipping from Reliable Bike light suppliers on Shenzhen East Face Sci&Tech Co., Ltd


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

36.84 if you use coupon from "sale items" page in the store. But lets keep SSX2 discussion in another thread.


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## eebowler (May 22, 2006)

I agree with uiflorin as well. I own one decent bike light, ie the Shadow BL-21 and love it simply because the LED star is epoxied to the body of the light and not in a separate pill like other lights. 

Kir, does the SolarStorm X2 have a CNC machined body too? From the pics on fasttech, it looks like it uses pills. Thanks for the info.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

Paid for my Solarstorm July 8th,

Shipped on July 11th,

Received on July 22nd in Colorado.

It's much smaller than I thought it would be. I like the UI. The beam pattern looks like it might be a bit too spotty, but I'll see when I can get it on the trail.


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## eebowler (May 22, 2006)

Can anyone say weather the X2 has a pill or has the LED star epoxied to the body? Thanks.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

X2 has pills for leds like D-50. And leds on 16mm (or maybe 14mm) stars and thermal paste.


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## eebowler (May 22, 2006)

Kir, can you take pics?  I"m dissapointed. Honestly the more focused beam of the X2 is what I wanted but I refuse to buy another bike light with a pill Thanks.


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

Disappointed? Why? Pills design can be good, in solarstorm X2 pills are press-fitted into the case so thermal transfer is good. And you can easily replace the leds, unlike TR-D002 where leds stars are glued into case.

https://i.imgur.com/YvdrzuU.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0qlwWx0.jpg
Pics here, thats the original SS X2 (clones use another driver). And yes, its called Black Shadow Mantis 5954


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## eebowler (May 22, 2006)

So in your opinion, there is good thermal transfer from LED-Pill-body? 

By ANY SLIM CHANCE, the handlebar mount part that screws into the light, have you seen it selling seperately ANYWHERE? I've searched FT, DX, KD, IO and haven't found it.  The Shadow BL-21 has a different attachment that 1) doesn't fit oversized handlebars and 2) can not be mounted to a headband and if I get this, I can have a true 700 lumen headlight!  Thanks for the pics!


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## Kir (May 30, 2013)

I think yes, case heats up fast, pills are fitted into case with metal-to-metal contact surface, case has fins for cooling. At least it much, much better than D-99.

Action-LED-Lights ? Accessories - Everything Else - mounts are available here.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Kir said:


> *Now the bad news *- driver is very small and not very powerful, it draws only 1A from external PSU at 8.4V at high, thats the lowest current draw from all 2XML lights. And I'm not sure if driver can be modified for higher power. I'll post pics of the case/driver in a few days.


Can you explain in what way is this "bad news"? Does it affect reliability, brightness, power etc?

Action sells the MJ-872 light head for $40. Don't need charger/battery, but want 1000-1200 real lumens or better. Which is the better deal?


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

pigmode said:


> Action sells the MJ-872 light head for $40. Don't need charger/battery, but want 1000-1200 real lumens or better. Which is the better deal?


I just looked at the action led page based on your post and I think you may have misread the chart. Just the lighthead is $85. $40 would be a steal.


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Ahh, better off getting a good cheapie, or possible the Olympia.


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## eebowler (May 22, 2006)

SWEET! Thanks for the link!


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Ordered the Solarstorm X2 2fer deal from Ali for $34.xx, free shipping. We'll see how it goes.


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

What t2er deal. I think you will recieve 1 light set, but the light has 2 LEDs in it.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

pigmode said:


> Ordered the Solarstorm X2 2fer deal from Ali for $34.xx, free shipping. We'll see how it goes.


Link?


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

^ Ahh, expired yesterday. Sorry bout dat.

I have 2 double sets available in my "MY Orders" list, one for $34.99, the other for $40.50.

They really play around with the prices. Wait a while, and keep checking. I don't think they've sold very many.

Not sure if you'll see this.

Wholesale Product Snapshot Product name is 2013Hotsale!! SolarStorm X2 Bike Light 2 CREE U2 LED 2000LM Waterproof Bicycle Light + Intelligent Power Indicate,Freeshiping


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## ironbrewer (Oct 17, 2012)

It says its a snapshot from when you ordered it yesterday at 20:37:46. If that is true you are getting:



Package content:	



1.1x Cree U2 led bike light	



2.1xBattery pack for the bicycle light	



3.1xcharger for the battery pack	



4.2pcs Spare o-ring	



5.Instruction for use	



6.1xGift Box


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## pigmode (Nov 15, 2009)

Hahaha, they tricked a feeble minded roadie with all the 2's in the title. Blame it on my TBI, nevermind...


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## gopherhockey (Jun 3, 2004)

pigmode said:


> Ordered the Solarstorm X2 2fer deal from Ali for $34.xx, free shipping. We'll see how it goes.


I did the same thing, after reading these forums and trying to figure out just what way to go this year.

I have one question though... what battery would people buy to enhance this light? I don't really have the patience to DIY, would rather use my credit card to buy something more reliable than what the X2 apparently comes with.

Has anyone purchased batteries to go with this particular light?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You changed the topic overtime  The thread is about TF TR-D002


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## martinmkd2 (May 13, 2004)

Kir said:


> 2XML lights - Imgur - here are the comparison pics of all my 2XML lights, with D88 as a bonus


How about some thoughts for D88, and comparison with SSX2. Beam and brightnest.
Thanks.


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## uiflorin (Dec 6, 2012)

Kir said:


> https://www.fasttech.com/product/1360704 - its this one.
> Current on leds will be higher than 1A, probably about 1.5-1.6A on 2 leds in series.
> 
> Compared to other dual lights, here is a current draw from external PSU at 8.4V, all lights at maximum mode:
> ...


The implest way to calculate the power suplied to the leds is to find the power draw from psu: voltage x current. Then multiply with 0.85, which is the average efficiency of a driver. So, a solarstorm unit that takes 2A from psu will deliver about 2x8.4x0.85=14.28watt to the leds, which means about 2A on the leds at 3.3V per led.


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