# Opinion's on flow trail turn bypasses, cut straight through's?



## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

It annoys me when I'm riding a nice flow trail with well developed berms and I see a new line developing that just goes straight down bypassing all the S berm turns. I'm wondering if this is the result of gravity riders just wanting to hit the bottom in record time, or uphill riders looking for a more direct path? Some are too steep for that. I don't think it's hikers because there are tire tracks. Maybe it's just kids?
I see people have thrown bushes in those paths to deter it.


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## marathon marke (Sep 26, 2012)

I've seen that on some easy local trails, and my first impression was some Strava segment warrior is trying to cheap his way to the cyber-podium.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

shortcutting turns predates mountain biking as a problem.

doesn't really matter why they exist. once one person does it, the line starts getting worn in, and other people follow.

when I'm doing trail maintenance and I'm dealing with this problem, I transplant thorns and poison ivy to these spots.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

If you figure it out....

Seriously, I'm right there with you.. I've never really understood most braiding on trails. Especially in the case of burmed turns.

We also have turns completely bypassed on local green trails. It boggles.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

It can be hikers and bikers.

When I see these starting, I will take a few minutes to drag as many branches as I can find and lay them overtop.
Once they are covered, most won't go to the effort of trying to uncover again.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## alpinerider38 (Jan 1, 2021)

Ahhhh the French corner syndrome! It's so common over here! It used to bother me until you can still catch and over take the guy in front who is cutting the corners and your riding the trail the way the trail builder intended!


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

marathon marke said:


> I've seen that on some easy local trails, and my first impression was some Strava segment warrior is trying to cheap his way to the cyber-podium.


This has been my theory because this started showing up on our local trails around the same time Strava took off. It doesn't help that I see videos on occasion where the rider does this either to take a faster line or just ad libbing for fun. Normalizing riding off trail liek this drives me crazy.

Hikers are notorious for heading up the straightest, steepest line. There is a very popular trail near here that is hiking only and despite wood rails and clear signage, people still cut the corners and head straight up the hill. It doesn't take much of a hint of a line and others will follow. I'm building a new multi-use climbing trail right now and I'm always trying to put myself in the head of someone that wouldn't think like I do to try and anticipate how/why they might decide to cut corners. We'll see if the layout and features minimize this once it's done.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

this year I am noticing a TON of this on local stash...Russell mill Chelmsford ma and Billerica state forest Gilson hill

it's chunk and grunt heaven, tight in many spots....that's the whole idea
and armies of boobs have ripped out some small rocks, made desire paths around corners...small cut throughs

pisses all of us off

*there were signs on some pieces* that stated 'Change your riding to meet the trail, don't change the trail to meet your ride ability' (or some such wording) and those have been ripped out long ago


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bizango said:


> This has been my theory because this started showing up on our local trails around the same time Strava took off. It doesn't help that I see videos on occasion where the rider does this either to take a faster line or just ad libbing for fun. Normalizing riding off trail liek this drives me crazy.
> 
> Hikers are notorious for heading up the straightest, steepest line. There is a very popular trail near here that is hiking only and despite wood rails and clear signage, people still cut the corners and head straight up the hill. It doesn't take much of a hint of a line and others will follow. I'm building a new multi-use climbing trail right now and I'm always trying to put myself in the head of someone that wouldn't think like I do to try and anticipate how/why they might decide to cut corners. We'll see if the layout and features minimize this once it's done.


Find all the thorny shrubs you can. In addition to everything else that causes a rash or pain like poison ivy/oak/sumac, nettles, etc. I do recommend keeping with native plants, though. there are some really nasty nonnatives I wouldn't wish on anyone.

The worst shortcutting I've personally witnessed has been from hikers. When MTB riders do it, the application and evidence is usually a bit different. Usually it's just cutting a little bit off the apex of the turn. When hikers do it, it's really blatant down the nastiest, steepest, chunkiest fall line crap there is.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

I can't say without seeing the turn you're talking about but the only thing I can think of besides Strava warriors is if the S berm is very poorly built and riders just don't like it or something (not saying that's right, just a possible explanation). There's a local trail that has a few unnecessary berms where the trail is going nearly straight but they decided to build a small berm on the side. However, in that case it's not so much riders cutting a new line so much as just not utilizing the berm.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I see that here too. It’s as if people are purposely avoiding having fun. Why ride these awesome banked turns when I can go in a straight line?


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

can't wait until the gyms open back up 100%
and these cross fit f**ks can go back to the mirrored walls
so they can stare at themselves flexin once again and get the
hell off the trails


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## bizango (Mar 20, 2016)

"*there were signs on some pieces* that stated 'Change your riding to meet the trail, don't change the trail to meet your ride ability' (or some such wording) and those have been ripped out long ago "

Ha, love that sentiment! I've thought and said the same thing.

One other theory that I've wondered about is if some of the bigger, slacker bikes people are running are more of a handful to get around tighter corners that were probably built when 26ers ruled the land. If it is that, it is a totally lame excuse for trail disrespect. You're on the wrong bike or on the wrong trail if the two don't mesh.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

There is a jump line trail that has been fun for quite a while. The kids (who do a lot of jump building) decided build them a little higher and turn them all into gap jumps of consequence. I was bummed but they are putting in the effort. I did the same thing about 45 years ago. I won't be sending it on any of those anymore
It's nice to see them outside working on trails rather than sitting and gaming on a computer.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

This is one of my HUGE pet peeves. Especially since my local system has limited elevation loss so those turns are there on purpose to create more rideable mileage / maximizing the precious DH elevation loss. Some riders are just fucking clueless honestly.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Cutting straight throughs is bad, whether it's biking or hiking. I'm not a fan of the trend toward 6 foot wide bermed "flow trails" at all, though. I don't hate them. I just prefer narrow, old school singletrack trails, and I think the days of building those just may be over. They're probably too hard to build with the current equipment, the desire for downhill only trails and short time lines on completing the task. But even those are affected, as people deviate around obstacles and turn them into wide trails.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

MSU Alum said:


> Cutting straight throughs is bad, whether it's biking or hiking. I'm not a fan of the trend toward 6 foot wide bermed "flow trails" at all, though. I don't hate them. I just prefer narrow, old school singletrack trails, and I think the days of building those just may be over. They're probably too hard to build with the current equipment, the desire for downhill only trails and short time lines on completing the task. But even those are affected, as people deviate around obstacles and turn them into wide trails.


I rode an old hand-cut trail last Friday at a very popular trail center and just before I got to the end, there was a big trail building machine parked. I really, really hope they are not planning on running it on that trail. I need to contact the group and express that.

Edit: done!


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

They are referred to as French lines, and I do it all the time on the poorly built trails near me.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

unrooted said:


> They are referred to as French lines, and I do it all the time on the poorly built trails near me.


Being part of the problem is such the rage right now!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Most of the ones I see locally, just end up causing erosion. Then again, I've been seeing a lot of trail damage anyway these days.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

127.0.0.1 said:


> can't wait until the gyms open back up 100%
> and these cross fit f**ks can go back to the mirrored walls
> so they can stare at themselves flexin once again and get the
> hell off the trails


Most people in my lardass city gave up in the fall of 2020 when it got cold.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

One of the local gravity junkies has been building gnarly fall line descents in the local park. Basically straight lines down the steepest hills they can find. One of them crosses straight down the middle of a really fun switchback descent. Now the horses and hikers are starting to use it. Maddening.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Nothing more infuriating as a trail builder.


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## Forest Rider (Oct 29, 2018)

It is very very possible for riders not comfortable riding a berm to ride a straight line.
One of the trails I ride here is "if ou got there you must ride the berms to get down" or go back where you came from. Doesn't mean they are skilled or knew what they were in for. Or are okay taking it easy through the bermy bit then riding the next 8 minutes of trail to the bottom and enjoying single track.
Another of the trails here has been seeing an easy line getting worn in. No excuse here, the rider should know from all the signage it's a jump line and if you are unskilled you should be intimated enough not to go down it, and you have options not to.
Alternately, the lines I'm referring to could be from climbing, staying out of the downhill line. It's actually not supposed to be climbed but people are going to be people. At least now people can somewhat get up the bermy parts without being in the line. Still distracting when focusing on the down hill while riding on a downhill trail.
The first trail I mentioned isn't worn in due to climbing traffic, can't climb it. It's all about the rookies incapable of riding berms and therefore have to ride it as straight as possible.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

It's impossible to provide a generalized answer to this question. Sometimes it's Stavassholes cheating KOMs, sometimes it's hacks without the skill to ride the turns, sometimes the turns in question are poorly built and objectively dumb. Sometimes it's all of the above.


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## Tall BMX'r (Jan 11, 2021)

It does seem to be a consensus as to which cut throughs remain and which ones are blocked. A few that bugged me were blocked off by rocks and chopped weeds, and are being taken back by the natural flora. One of the two way single tracks that had a few cut throughs develop, and I've contributed to the cutting through inadvertently. In one direction the switchbacks are fun and flowy. In the other direction you have a bunch of speed coming off a hill and the cut through leads you to an up to level up jump. I just noticed the other day that the jump was the cut through from the other direction.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Dogs almost always take these shortcuts. They get worn in. Then people and kids start thinking they are ok to take.


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## Red Leg 2 (May 4, 2014)

Tall BMX'r said:


> It annoys me when I'm riding a nice flow trail with well developed berms and I see a new line developing that just goes straight down bypassing all the S berm turns. I'm wondering if this is the result of gravity riders just wanting to hit the bottom in record time, or uphill riders looking for a more direct path? Some are too steep for that. I don't think it's hikers because there are tire tracks. Maybe it's just kids?
> I see people have thrown bushes in those paths to deter it.


Where I ride, dirt bikes and ATVs are the bypass creators. Many of my favorite trails have widened by as much as fifteen feet and widen more every year. I use some of these bypasses. At 65, I think I've earned it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Red Leg 2 said:


> I use some of these bypasses. At 65, I think I've earned it.


Lame 👎


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## FranckeyGloom (12 mo ago)

Yes, bro, I have the same story...


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## feral (Feb 10, 2007)

Couple of thoughts:
1. Well designed bermed turns are rideable and walkable on their inside radius - I.e., all skill levels and foot traffic should be able to use them
2. Sometimes it’s not obvious (or possible with your terrain) but going with a bigger radius for the turn (and berm) can improve flow and increase likelihood that all users will stick with it. of course you have more berm to construct 
3. Don’t stack the turns. If you align the turns and make it obvious to some one that “I can get _there_ if I just cut here” you’re just making it easy for cut-throughs.
4. Disincentivize those cut-through in advance by loading the inside of the turn radius area (undisturbed terrain, not the trail  with logs, large rocks, deadfall, etc. But don’t obstruct the sight lines, just don’t make it inviting to cut through.


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