# hate for specialized?



## outsiders (Jul 15, 2009)

i'm getting back into the sport after a long long layoff so i've been doing some researching for a new bike and i keep coming across hate for specialized. why is that? i liked specialized back in the day. did their quality change?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Some people just hate. One of my bikes is a Specialized. It's an 03 model. There are some aspects about it I don't care for. I think the pivots are a bit wimpy, personally, but it works for me. I haven't ridden one of their new bikes for a long time, though, so I can't say if quality has changed since I got mine. I do know prices across the board have gone up a fair bit. That part sucks, but it's not just Spesh...it's everybody.


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## dogo (Sep 14, 2008)

1 word, overrated... Well except for there lifetime warranty lol... I've actually owned 2 speeshies, and they were pretty decent bikes. I just think thery're way better bikes out nowadays...


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## FujiRich (Jun 5, 2009)

Back in the day Specialized were the daddies, they made the first mountain bike and got the patents for the FSR rear suspension setup meaning other manufacturers had to pay them $$$ to use it. Now though, many advantages they had have been wiped away by advances by other manufacturers and now the playing field is fairly even.
In my opinion though, they're still the best ; )


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## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

mostly just angsty teenagers whining about how spec isn't cool because their neighbor has one.


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## Hopping_Rocks (Aug 23, 2008)

A lot of the hate towards Specialized has to do with their business practices. They were sued by NoTubes last year for infringing on NoTubes' patents.
http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/notubescom-files-lawsuit-against-specialized-bicycle-components-inc/


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

outsiders said:


> i'm getting back into the sport after a long long layoff so i've been doing some researching for a new bike and i keep coming across hate for specialized. why is that? i liked specialized back in the day. did their quality change?


They made a lot of good companies go bankrupt with stupid lawsuits, and their bike are really overpriced for what they are. Prices keep going up and components keep going down. A boutique bike is the same price as a specialized with similar components.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I have one from 2007. The bike has been completely solid, through multiple crashes as I learned to ride, and has taken me everywhere I've wanted to ride it. It's a fantastic bike.


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## Tim Mailloux (Jun 18, 2007)

FujiRich said:


> Back in the day Specialized were the daddies, they made the first mountain bike and got the patents for the FSR rear suspension setup meaning other manufacturers had to pay them $$$ to use it. Now though, many advantages they had have been wiped away by advances by other manufacturers and now the playing field is fairly even.
> In my opinion though, they're still the best ; )


Spesh purchased the rights to the Horst Link design and then called their version of the Horst Link FSR. Probably to make it look like they came up with it. Newer designs (DW link, VPP, Maestro) are all much better than FSR. I have a feeling Spesh is going to be in big trouble when the Horst Link Patent expires in a couple of years. Look for them to try and purchase the rights to VPP or DW Link and then try to make everyone belive they invented it.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Most companies infringe on patents at some point or another, especially if they attempt to make a slight improvement. The court decides if that slight improvement is enough to skirt patents...or not. Companies based around unique ideas don't usually have this problem. Spesh didn't create FSR, they bought the rights (and the patents) to it.

I hear their business practices "put many companies out of business" but I've never heard anybody cite a single one. I'd be curious to know.

ALL bike prices have gone up...not just Specialized. That argument is hogwash. Spesh just has more at the high end than some. It's seemed for years like Spesh wanted to drop some low end product at the expense of some high end stuff.

OP, Specialized is fine. If you find one that fits you and your style, go for it. If not, get something else. There's plenty on the market.


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## outsiders (Jul 15, 2009)

another reason i was interested in specialized is that alot of their dealers do financing. it's hard to find a shop that finances the smaller boutique brands or i haven't come across any.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

nothing wrong with spec.. nothing particularly fantastic about spec either, but they're perfectly fine bikes.

bike shop financing is terrible. its usually an astronomical interest rate.. better off getting a small personal loan from a bank or credit union. with 750+ credit, i was told to expect 19%! .. or dont live beyond your means and take out bad loans for bicycles


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

FujiRich said:


> Back in the day Specialized were the daddies, they made the first mountain bike and got the patents for the FSR rear suspension setup meaning other manufacturers had to pay them $$$ to use it. Now though, many advantages they had have been wiped away by advances by other manufacturers and now the playing field is fairly even.
> In my opinion though, they're still the best ; )


No way. They put their name on a lot of stuff, that's what Specialized does, that's what they're founded on. They did put their name on some early mountain bikes, but they weren't the first. They are Special Ed for a reason...


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## mhall711 (Jul 28, 2009)

I just bought my first bike in 15 years and I got a Specialized and LOVE IT!!! But then again after 15 years its just feels good to hit the trails.


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## falcon1984 (Aug 25, 2008)

Yes that financing is true. You gotta get the 0% for whatever deals from the shops. Most credits cards do the same. So don't really let that sway your decision. Also these shop financing doesn't ever give you deals afterthe initial purchase. It would be nice if they did like hey it's 2010 get a new 2010 model get 0 for 6 months or something along those lines after you already are a card holder. But they don't.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

outsiders said:


> another reason i was interested in specialized is that alot of their dealers do financing. it's hard to find a shop that finances the smaller boutique brands or i haven't come across any.


I think Trek stores will do financing, too, but I always pay cash for my toys. Only things I'll take a loan for are houses and cars. And I'd really like to stop financing cars, too.


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## jrcxu (Oct 23, 2007)

NateHawk said:


> I hear their business practices "put many companies out of business" but I've never heard anybody cite a single one. I'd be curious to know.


Im not saying this was the cause of the downfall of the old mountain cycle, but I've never been a fan of Specialized ever since they threatened a lawsuit (cease and desist) over the whole Stumptown vs. Stumpjumper BS. That's right, the legal dept at Specialized actually believed a cyclocross bike hand-built in a small shop in Portland (aka Stumptown) called the Stumptown was too similar in name to their Stumpjumper mountain bike. Who do you think won that one?

After that, I've never been a fan of Spec.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> I hear their business practices "put many companies out of business" but I've never heard anybody cite a single one. I'd be curious to know.
> 
> .


Ask the folks at Stratos what they think. Scott USA not being able to market their bikes here for years. The Stumptown issue illustrates their arrogance. There are others...


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Stratos did shocks, right? Or did they do bikes before I was aware? I didn't know Spesh had anything to do with ScottUSA pulling out of the NA market. I did know that ScottUSA recently had some bikes too similar to Spesh's FSR design, so those bikes could not be sold here, but that wasn't until after ScottUSA decided to come back.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Honestly, it is pathetic..... All the Hate. Why? What does it get you? Nothing, just makes any and all look like fools. Go Ride What You Got.


But something to think about. Your a small company, you grow, you get bigger and bigger. You do so well that people start to try and ride on your coat tails and try and get rich or just make it copying you, emulating your business. There has to be a line drawn in the sand. Do I agree with every little thing they have done? No. Did they have a legit claim in many cases. Yup. 

They must be doing something right....... If Titus was as good I would bet the same people would be bashing them as well, or if Santa Cruz, Moots, Serotta, Salsa, Pivot...............

Oh, there is not a Specialized right now that I would even buy. A close friend has an 08 Stumpy Expert (FS) that is a hell of a bike. Just not my thing.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

i dont think anyone is saying they make bad bikes. they dont. people complain about the way specialized operates in the bike industry. 

keep in mind this is a discussion board. we're going to discuss


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

NateHawk said:


> Stratos did shocks, right? Or did they do bikes before I was aware? I didn't know Spesh had anything to do with ScottUSA pulling out of the NA market. I did know that ScottUSA recently had some bikes too similar to Spesh's FSR design, so those bikes could not be sold here, but that wasn't until after ScottUSA decided to come back.


Yes, Stratos was a shock outfit. For bikes. They were a very small player and Specialized feared them so much they forced 'em out with a stupid lawsuit that they really had no merits with (in that Stratos' product preceded the idiotic f*cks at Special Ed) F*ck special ed. Scott was held out of the market for a very long time not wishing to fight a legal battle with Special Ed over their purchase of someone else's design and vigorous and often overboard defense of same. If you like that kind of corporate crap, you just buy it...

ps Let's not forget how Specialized will copy anything hot to their own benefit...


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

tomsmoto said:


> i dont think anyone is saying they make bad bikes. they dont. people complain about the way specialized operates in the bike industry.
> 
> keep in mind this is a discussion board. we're going to discuss


SPecialized's first forray into mountain bikes involved taking a Gary Fisher and Charlie Kelley Mountain Bike (they had the trade mark back then on Mountainbikes) and sending it off to Japan to be copied and reproduced en mass.

Specialized was born by stealing designs from others.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Heh, 'Lifetime Warranty'...*



dogo said:


> 1 word, overrated... Well except for there lifetime warranty lol... I've actually owned 2 speeshies, and they were pretty decent bikes. I just think thery're way better bikes out nowadays...


... is kind of a joke. They have a lifetime warranty on the frame.... and by frame they mean front triangle. The rear triangle is considered 'suspension linkage'. Guess what tends to fail on just about any suspension bike?

They also treat their dealers like crap, making them stock 60% of their inventory from Spechy. I have a bud who got his hardtail frame warrantied, and Specy backcharged the dealer for processing, not to mention they don't reimburse the dealer for stripdown or rebuild. Two of my favorite LBSs were former spechy dealers, and got hosed.

The quality of their product is really good, IMO. I had an '03 stumpy fsr-xc that was a dynamite bike. I still think horst link is the best suspension design, but that's just me.

Their biz practices suck. That said, it isn't that dissimilar to what Trek does to their dealers.

I would have no problem kicking down to buy a specy if they cleaned up their act. I would also consider used specy bikes, but I won't give specy my bucks the way things are currently.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

pimpbot said:


> ... is kind of a joke. They have a lifetime warranty on the frame.... and by frame they mean front triangle. The rear triangle is considered 'suspension linkage'. Guess what tends to fail on just about any suspension bike?
> 
> They also treat their dealers like crap, making them stock 60% of their inventory from Spechy. I have a bud who got his hardtail frame warrantied, and Specy backcharged the dealer for processing, not to mention they don't reimburse the dealer for stripdown or rebuild. Two of my favorite LBSs were former spechy dealers, and got hosed.
> 
> ...


do u have ANY references to prove what you've just said? if not, then please stop spreading misinformation or lies.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

tomsmoto said:


> they're perfectly fine bikes.


One thing people may object to is the big S behaving like a corporate elephant. Particularly US patent issues that prevent some European brands from offering their bikes in US.


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## tomsmoto (Oct 6, 2007)

i dont blame them.. its smart business. DW has the same patents, spec just more aggressively guards theirs. why give up market share?

either way, its working for them. they probably out sell all the boutique bike brands combined.

it doesnt bother me because we really do have a ton of options. spec cant force themselves on you.. you dont want one, you dont buy one. theres tons of great bikes.. as far as im concerned, im more than likely not going to own a specialized bike, so the way they conduct themselves is a bit irrelevant to me.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Well....*



louisssss said:


> do u have ANY references to prove what you've just said? if not, then please stop spreading misinformation or lies.


... I don't wanna name names, but you can see by my profile where I live, and you can see the local Spechy dealers... two of which are probably recently de-listed as dealers. It's exactly the same story as you may have read about other spechy dealers. Do a search. I'm not going to out my friends... maybe they will chime in if they want to tell their stories.

I'm not lying. I've been on these boards for a very long time.. before the changeover, 7000+ posts, and a lot of folks know me. I do not have a rep as a liar. I have a good bud on this board (not to name names again) who just broke his spechy hardtail, and the LBS (who is no longer a specy dealer) just took care of him without charging him (my bud, that is), but ended up eating a couple hundred bucks in the process because of spechy's practices. I have another friend who is a former employee, and expressed his distaste for the company from the inside.

So which points specifically do you think I'm lying about?

I mean, I guess they have every right to run their biz the way they like, just as I have every right to call them out on it, and not drop my dollars their way. It really is too bad, because I like their product. I have owned two specy bikes in my time, one was great (sold) and the other is my wife's S-Works hardtail, and recently bought a Titus RacerX29er, which uses the same FSR design (of which a few bucks went spechy's direction for the horst link patent). I have a couple pair of their gloves, S gel bar tape on my road bike, two saddles, and three speedzone computers.

I think the way they guard their horst link patent is fine. Doesn't bother me, they paid for it fair and square. If others (Scott bikes) don't wanna pay the license fee, that is their problem. DW link was developed because of this, and it largely does the same thing as FSR, but without violating the patent.

Now don't get me wrong. I don't hate them, but I have no love for the way they run things,and they aren't going to see any of my dollars unless things change around there.

Warranty info:

quote:

LIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY ON BICYCLE FRAMES AND FRAMESETS
Specialized warrants to the original owner for the lifetime of the original owner of each new Specialized
bicycle or frameset that the bicycle frame or frameset when new is free of defective materials and
workmanship. The lifetime Limited Warranty is conditioned upon the bicycle being operated under
normal conditions and use, and properly maintained. This Limited Warranty does not apply to paint/finish
or components attached to the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post,
handlebar and stem, or *any suspension related parts or components*. Paint/finish, components attached to
the bicycle/frameset such as front forks, wheels, drive train, brakes, seat post, handlebar and stem, or any
*suspension related parts or components are covered under the limited one (1) year warranty*. This Limited
Warranty is void if the bicycle or frameset was not purchased new or not properly assembled by an
authorized Specialized dealer.


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## Biker_Scout_Sparky (Sep 5, 2005)

louisssss said:


> do u have ANY references to prove what you've just said? if not, then please stop spreading misinformation or lies.


nope no lies there.

FACT: Specialized screwed my shop whan my stumpy-niner cracked, they let them eat the cost of time and materials to rebuild the bike, My shop, being a really cool one just wrote it off as "cost of doing business" top it all off, it took them 3 weeks to agree to warranty what was obviously a defect and get eh frame shipped.

FACT: my "really cool shop" was given a choice by specialized, 85% of their merchandise needed to be specialized branded or they would no longer do business with them, this included warranty parts. of course, they didn't take the deal because that would have cost them business. their customers like variety and options. Another shop in the area was offered a 60% deal but also declined. I've also heard of a shop south of Oakland that got the same offer and did the same thing.
I own 3 high-end specialized bikes all bought from "this really cool shop" and this has left me high and dry for parts and support. My only options are to go to one of the 2 shops in the area that still carry specialized stuff. one is generally a roady shop staffed by nimrod inexperienced hipsters, the other is a "great shop" but is a long drive away and has already shown me that they can't be relied upon to order the right parts from specialized. The bottom line is that I've built up a relationship with my shop, they know my bikes' histories and the way i ride and now I've got to go elsewhere! Specialized has tied the hands of my bike shop and for all of its customers that already own their products.
My 2 cents, only do business with companies you can respect. i don't think that Specialized falls into that category anymore.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

There are a lot of predatory practices out there in the industry, unfortunately. Spesh has developed a bit of a reputation as a big shark....hence a lot of the hate.

If you watch these boards for any length of time, you'll see that it happens here too... and it seems to be getting worse. Some people who are not afraid to call bs or point out poor practices get banned in what appear to be influenced decisions. 

Lotsa sharks out there people....take everything with a big grain of salt.


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## Biker_Scout_Sparky (Sep 5, 2005)

Psycho Mike said:


> ...Some people who are not afraid to call bs or point out poor practices get banned in what appear to be influenced decisions...


got any proof of that?


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

Psycho Mike said:


> Lotsa sharks out there people....take everything with a big grain of salt.


Yeah, I'm curious how many of the folks who won't buy from the Big S because of their "business practices" also make it a habit to boycott Exxon, Del Monte, any products made with metals mined by Newmont, etc.

I think most of the problem is that it's cool to bash anything once it gains mass appeal. It's the same with music and other stuff too.

I love my Stumpy - which, BTW, I got under their warrany/upgrade program when my Enduro broke.


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*True...*



Psycho Mike said:


> There are a lot of predatory practices out there in the industry, unfortunately. Spesh has developed a bit of a reputation as a big shark....hence a lot of the hate.
> 
> If you watch these boards for any length of time, you'll see that it happens here too... and it seems to be getting worse. Some people who are not afraid to call bs or point out poor practices get banned in what appear to be influenced decisions.
> 
> Lotsa sharks out there people....take everything with a big grain of salt.


I don't think anybody has been banned, with the possible exception of one guy who was bagging on Ibex in a very nasty way. He went beyond simple criticism.

I won't buy a bike from the Trek family, either... or Ellsworth because of some of their practices. Then again, at least Trek warranties their rear triangles past one year, and really does fall under 'lifetime' warranty.

There are lots of companies I don't do biz with because of their practices. We all can choose to be part of the problem, or part of the solution.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

Pimpbot, I think we've both lived through enough of the "wars" to see it here. IBEX, Chumba, Iron Horse...all iterations on the same.

There have been a lot of deleted posts and banned people in the last 12 months...some were idiots, others called bs on manufacturer claims...either way, I still advise everyone using a "consumer site" like this to take **everything** with a grain of salt...shills, people with axes to grind, manufacturers hype, marketing and advertising revenue are all at work here.


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## Shocknerd (Aug 3, 2004)

perttime said:


> One thing people may object to is the big S behaving like a corporate elephant. Particularly US patent issues that prevent some European brands from offering their bikes in US.


Show me a company that pays FSR royalties and/or respects the FSR patents, and I will show you a company that hasn't done their homework.

Specialized's competitor patent lawyers can PM me. Prepare to fall off your chair laughing like it did.


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## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

bucksaw87 said:


> mostly just angsty teenagers whining about how spec isn't cool because their neighbor has one.


:thumbsup:


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## Shocknerd (Aug 3, 2004)

Tim Mailloux said:


> Spesh purchased the rights to the Horst Link design and then called their version of the Horst Link FSR. Probably to make it look like they came up with it. Newer designs (DW link, VPP, Maestro) are all much better than FSR. I have a feeling Spesh is going to be in big trouble when the Horst Link Patent expires in a couple of years. Look for them to try and purchase the rights to VPP or DW Link and then try to make everyone belive they invented it.


The FSR patent is de facto expired.

uspto.gov


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## marcuslemarc (Aug 10, 2007)

I've owned two specialized bikes now, and here's my experience and why I probably won't buy specialized as my next bike.

I got a rockhopper hardtail as my first bike and it was great...no problems whatsover, and the dealer was great to work with (mikes bikes)

the second bike i got was a specialized stumpjumper expert 07, and again, not many problems. but then i started learning more about bikes, and i started learning why specialized is kind of limiting. THEY HAVE SO MANY FREAKINGGG PROPRIETARY PARTS. haha..just my frustration, and nothing wrong against the parts or designs, but just sometimes its so frustrating trying to deal with. 

case in point, my stumpjumper has a proprietary sized rear shock (its a fox/brain combo, and works good--but you cant upgrade to a RP23 without voiding warranties and changing the stock measurements). in fact, alot of their bikes have different eye-to-eye or stroke shock lengths. 

the second was something that completely threw me off. Standard, but semi-proprietary, headset size. my headset is standard 1 1/8 on paper, but an authorized dealer wouldn't install a chrisking on mine because of sizing issues. i never paid attention, and just bought a different headset. but now that i know more about bikes, i called specialized to see whats up. turns out their stumjumper 07 expert headset doesnt accept chris king headsets because its slightly off from 1 1/8. 

anyways, not knocking specialized bikes because my last one and current stumjumper are great bikes. i just dont like that theyre forcing so many proprietary designs ( non-standard sized shocks & weird dual sized headsets) 

i do notice theres a community snub to specialized, and i think its cuz their so mainstream. but i think theyre a good bike maker, just sucks to deal with if you wanna make your bike your own. 

AND, to comment on that bad biz practice comments. i have heard they are pretty strict on their dealers. they push their product, and you can see it if you walk into most stores that sell specialized. notice how much specialized they sell. not often will you see a specialized-carrying store without carrying a majority of specialized products (me thinks its not a coincidence) But a bike shop guy can easily clear this one up.

bottom line, specialized makes good bikes, but just limiting due to proprietary designs


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Shocknerd said:
 

> Show me a company that pays FSR royalties and/or respects the FSR patents, and I will show you a company that hasn't done their homework.
> 
> Specialized's competitor patent lawyers can PM me. Prepare to fall off your chair laughing like it did.


Uh, why not tell us what made you fall off your chair laughing?


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## jkkfam89 (Jan 2, 2007)

I have owned a Epic and stumpjumper in recent years. I bought them from different stores. Bad blood with Specialized (for me) has come from salesman mostly. They are poor salesman (the ones I have dealt with) who have minimum knowledge of Mountain biking. They result to poor tactics (ripping my Yeti in hopes of a sale) and are pressured to sell Specialized. Another salesman never heard of Yeti. All the Specialized dealers around me have onesy twosy of another brand, yet 50 Specialized on board. Specialized pushes the competition out the door as soon as they can. I will never own another because of the people who sell them

Quick story on the Epic I owned. When bought, it took well after the time frame in-which the LBS said it would. Then when it came in the decals were put on wrong. After researching and talking to Specialized, they informed me that, the bike was probably bought off there discounted bike site. So they paid a fraction of the price. I saw no savings at all. I was promised Specialized gear and such, but never recieved anything.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

jkkfam89 said:


> I have owned a Epic and stumpjumper in recent years. I bought them from different stores. Bad blood with Specialized (for me) has come from salesman mostly. They are poor salesman (the ones I have dealt with) who have minimum knowledge of Mountain biking. They result to poor tactics (ripping my Yeti in hopes of a sale) and are pressured to sell Specialized. Another salesman never heard of Yeti. All the Specialized dealers around me have onesy twosy of another brand, yet 50 Specialized on board. Specialized pushes the competition out the door as soon as they can. I will never own another because of the people who sell them
> 
> Quick story on the Epic I owned. When bought, it took well after the time frame in-which the LBS said it would. Then when it came in the decals were put on wrong. After researching and talking to Specialized, they informed me that, the bike was probably bought off there discounted bike site. So they paid a fraction of the price. I saw no savings at all. I was promised Specialized gear and such, but never recieved anything.


Sounds like your problem is not with Specialized but with your LBS. I have the same problem. Our LBS is mostly a Joke, The Mechanic is good, he is the only one I let touch my bikes. He has worked at all the shops in town, well, only one here now. But as far as the shop goes, they are a joke, The only upper end bike they have is an 07 Giant Reign. It was a Demo, they have it priced down to $2500.00. The bike is more bike than any of our trails even warrant. Poor selection on their part. Next level down is about $600.00 treks, cannondales, etc.... Sales personel do not know dick about bikes. I did get a hell of a deal on a Road bike there a year ago. (Listed for $2800.00, got it for $1800 Blue Comp Cycles NX7 with full Ultegra Groupo).


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## Shocknerd (Aug 3, 2004)

sxr-racer said:


> Uh, why not tell us what made you fall off your chair laughing?


The information is public.

Here's the first clue: Ulead vs Lex
http://www.ll.georgetown.edu/federal/judicial/fed/opinions/01opinions/01-1320.html


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

jkkfam89 said:


> I have owned a Epic and stumpjumper in recent years. I bought them from different stores. Bad blood with Specialized (for me) has come from salesman mostly. They are poor salesman (the ones I have dealt with) who have minimum knowledge of Mountain biking. They result to poor tactics (ripping my Yeti in hopes of a sale) and are pressured to sell Specialized. Another salesman never heard of Yeti. All the Specialized dealers around me have onesy twosy of another brand, yet 50 Specialized on board. Specialized pushes the competition out the door as soon as they can. I will never own another because of the people who sell them
> 
> Quick story on the Epic I owned. When bought, it took well after the time frame in-which the LBS said it would. Then when it came in the decals were put on wrong. After researching and talking to Specialized, they informed me that, the bike was probably bought off there discounted bike site. So they paid a fraction of the price. I saw no savings at all. I was promised Specialized gear and such, but never recieved anything.


I also think this is an issue with your LBS more so than spesh. my local spesh dealer is very good, everything, including warranty work, is taken care of with no issues or hassle.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Why I would never buy a Speshy? 

Proprietary parts all over their bikes and a crappy corporate attitude towards biking. I like small companies but I realize not everyone can purchase a boutique bike made in small-ish quantities by people who actually live and breath to ride/make mountain bikes. (Turner/Knolly/Yeti just for example, there are many others)

To a newbie it won't really matter, but for many it's a hassle. Not to mention they act like a corporate giant instead of a cool mtb company (I did mention it I guess). 

My buddy got one of those new type Enduro's in '07. The ones with the new proprietary Speshy rear shock and the triple clamp speshy fork. What a freak'n nightmare. Those forks/shocks were failing all over the country. The complaint I have with his and hundreds of other's bikes is not the failing parts as so much the serious hassle in getting them fixed. His bike went into the shop no less than 4 times before Speshy finally acknowledged that they were in fact defective. They rebuilt his fork with new '08 internals and finally just replaced his POS rear shock. It was a JOKE and the bike shop guys were of no real help, presumably because Speshy is like Big Brother to them.

Anyhow the first time we went to mount his new bike to the fork mount rack we realized that the front hub was a proprietary 25mm hub, WTF??? 25mm? Anyhow needless to say he can never use a 20mm Fork UP to secure his bike in his truck, guess he should have noticed that before buying but still.........STUPID proprietary parts are all over their bikes, and every time he turns around it's a PITA.

I can also vouch for the crappy fs warranty. He had a '04 Stumpy before the Enduro. He had problem with the rear end, I can't remember exactly what, it was a long time ago. Something about a pivot maybe. Speshy told him his rear end was not part of the bike "frame" but rather a part of the suspension and they denied him a warranty claim. 

I've ranted much longer than I intended too.


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## HTail (Jan 29, 2004)

They're a mainstream bike maker, that count on manufacturing in China to produce pretty well designed bikes at super low cost, then mark up big in the dealers. It's a smart business model, as long as you monitor the quality.

If the idea of asian mass produced bikes bugs you, you'll probably pay more for something local built. When I was looking for my new mtn bike 7 yrs ago, I purposely avoided the likes of Specialized, Trek, GT, Diamondback, etc...just felt like I was buying something too generic....mass produced.


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

Actually the Diamondback bikes like the Mission, Sorties, Scapegoats are made in Taiwain by A-Pro and the whole bike assembled in China, hence the made in China sticker. Plus I think Specialized is overpriced for such a big company producing China orgin bicycles. Now a days you have so many options to choose from. Find the best deal and LBS to shop from, I think a good LBS is half the battle when choosing a bike.


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## pop_martian (Mar 20, 2007)

Say what you will but the finest bike I have ever had the privilege of throwing a leg over is my S-Works Epic. If they can build bikes like that, they are doing something right!


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## HTail (Jan 29, 2004)

For what it's worth, I got my bike through Wrench Science, which is a high end LBS here in the SF Bay area. The cool thing is that you can configure your bike and components on their web site, which keeps track of price and weight. Pretty cool, if you want to get into custom built bikes.

I agree, otherwise you have to settle for the particular brands the LBS sells. Some of the better LBSs can have a good selection, but I prefer to just buy the frame and build everything myself.


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## HTail (Jan 29, 2004)

Like I said, great if not some of the best bike designs, just mass produced in China. Nothing wrong with this, just a cheaper way of manufacturing which means more $$$ in Specialized pockets. It takes advantage of China's cheap and plentiful labor force.


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

my bikes both say they are from taiwan


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## HTail (Jan 29, 2004)

*Taiwan or china*

Taiwan was the big Asian manufacturer of bikes. "Made in Taiwan" has been for years the mass production king, previously "Made in Japan", but I think most mass production for everything including computers, phones, bikes, etc are going to be "Made in China" for lower cost. China is beginning to cost itself out, so don't be surprised to see "Made in Vietnam" and "Made in India" over the next decade.


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## Maadjurguer (Mar 22, 2008)

My problem with them is simple: proprietary parts distributed by stores who sell exclusively Spech (or close to exclusive) and parts that are not that high quality. The top of the line bikes by Spech are great....but you get down into the line a few notches down from the top tier and the quality just drops off.


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## HTail (Jan 29, 2004)

*One advantage tho*

One advantage of buying a "complete" bike is that you theoretically get a discount on the components over buying them separately yourself. The OEMs (Trek, Special, GT, etc) get volume discounts which let's them meet certain price points for retail. Probably why LBS complete bikes sometimes come with a mish-mash of component levels.

Like any sport, when you first start, you're looking for just quality equipment, not the best. Once you really get into it, then you understand and can appreciate the benefits of better more custom equipment, and willing to pay more for the performance gains (even it doesn't really make more than a psychological difference!)


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

i love my spesh. personally I wouldn't go with any of their forks/shocks. i wish they sold more frames because at this point I'd rather put the bike together myself.


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## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

Biker_Scout_Sparky said:


> got any proof of that?


keep an eye out on members that keeping voicing their opinions on here and soon they will be banned... just keep watching you will see it .


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## jjbod1 (Mar 26, 2009)

I pretty much only ride Fishers, but the shop I now deal with, and have work on my bikes is a Spech dealer. They really do make some sweet bikes. At some point, when I decide to go with a FS, it may very well be a Spech. The biggest problem I see with that brand is over pricing in general. Even the wrenches at the shop I deal with will tell you the same thing. EX. you take a $5. tube then put it in a box with there logo, and it now costs $10. They do that with everthing that has there name on it.


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

My hate for Specialized is because that route the cables UNDERNEATH the bottom bracket! Why oh why do they do that? I've turned my back on buy several Spesh's over this.

IF anyone at Specialized is reading this, please explain why to me. Please?


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

chas_martel said:


> My hate for Specialized is because that route the cables UNDERNEATH the bottom bracket! Why oh why do they do that? I've turned my back on buy several Spesh's over this.
> 
> IF anyone at Specialized is reading this, please explain why to me. Please?


I understand the concern about rock strikes damaging your cables, but do you have an issue with it past that? FWIW, nearly three years of riding my Epic, a few crashes, etc, never had an problem.


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## RockadileSX (Apr 24, 2007)

Specialized bikes seem to be purchaced far more frequently by posers that have $$$.

Thats the only reason I hate them.


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## bucksaw87 (Jun 18, 2007)

bucksaw87 said:


> mostly just angsty teenagers whining about how spec isn't cool because their neighbor has one.





RockadileSX said:


> Specialized bikes seem to be purchaced far more frequently by posers that have $$$.
> 
> Thats the only reason I hate them.


:thumbsup:


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

bucksaw87 said:


> :thumbsup:


:lol: checkmate


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## DavidNeiles (May 8, 2008)

pop_martian said:


> Say what you will but the finest bike I have ever had the privilege of throwing a leg over is my S-Works Epic. If they can build bikes like that, they are doing something right!


Maybe you need to expand what your leg is thrown over!! hehe. I am just saying


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

RockadileSX said:


> Specialized bikes seem to be purchaced far more frequently by posers that have $$$.
> 
> Thats the only reason I hate them.


So you hate something because people you deem "posers" buy it. What does that make you?


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## BeakJones (Oct 29, 2008)

People will always hate the leader. (fwiw, idk how spesh stands in market share, just making a point)

Look at Microsoft. Starbucks. Walmart.

People hate them, but who is on top and why?


and I've rode the piss out of my 01 rockhopper fsr for years and years and years.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Walmart and Specialized is actually a very apropos(sp?) comparison, at least on a (bully) corporate level.


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## bobvanjr (Jul 14, 2009)

I have two Rockhopper's. An 01 Comp and an 01 FSR. My wife has a Hybrid of some sort. I just got my Daughter a Myka. My two smallest kids both have little Specialized.

They've all been good. Why would I change?


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## ProEdgeBiker (Jun 24, 2004)

outsiders said:


> i'm getting back into the sport after a long long layoff so i've been doing some researching for a new bike and i keep coming across hate for specialized. why is that? i liked specialized back in the day. did their quality change?


I Love Pacific Bikes! go with that instead of a Spesh.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

BeakJones said:


> People will always hate the leader. (fwiw, idk how spesh stands in market share, just making a point)
> 
> Look at Microsoft. Starbucks. Walmart.
> 
> ...


That is not always true. I know much more about Wal-Mart so I'll use them as an example. Most of their workers cannot afford health care or provided health care by their employer, are paid low wages, cannot unionize, and there's many more. Google any of these if you want proof.  If the leading businesses actually treated their employees or lbs referring to Spesh with respect I would completely support them, but the "American Way" is to make as much money as fast as possible without regard to human life or anything that stands in your way. So is it the companies or what's ingrained into our society, or both?


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## CRed (Aug 4, 2007)

Microsoft would be a better comparison I think.There is not much that Microsoft or Gates has done to make billions of dollars that I would consider original.They did not invent the mouse,they did not invent the PC and even most of there software(I believe that there was a window based OS before windows even) was developed by smaller more innovative companies and individuals before Microsoft swooped in,bullied and litigated these companies and individuals into submission.Now I don't know a lot about Specialized so I am only going by what I have read here,but it seems their business practices are very similar.


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## robbyracer (Apr 9, 2009)

Love all the hate here!  I'll be back later to see who wins. Oh wait.....


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

my rockhopper is great! WHEN IT'S WORKING!!!!!

only parts on my bike that are stock are the bars, stem, saddle(now i need a new one), seatpost, cranks and front derailler.
and i'm on a new frame because my old one was screwed up bad from the factory, and i had to ride it like that for 378 days before it finally cracked due to stresses induced by the dropouts not being aligned.

i have so far spent exactly $789.87 on this bike... it has made it much better but there are still a few problems, like the wheels magically going out of true... thats getting fixed as i type...


i think the older ones were of much higher quality, i haven't been too happy with mine


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

BeakJones said:


> People will always hate the leader. (fwiw, idk how spesh stands in market share, just making a point)
> 
> Look at Microsoft. Starbucks. Walmart.
> 
> ...


starbucks coffee blows!!! it's sour tasting...

illy coffee rules!!!!


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## Lambdamaster (Nov 5, 2008)

alexjk, you have yet to provide any evidence to all the fantastic claims you have made about your bike


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## AlexJK (May 2, 2009)

Lambdamaster said:


> alexjk, you have yet to provide any evidence to all the fantastic claims you have made about your bike


i'm not saying that it's a bad bike, it's a great bike, i havent ridden the new frame for long enough to know that the problems are gone, BUT! so far so good!! only problem has been the wheels going out of true, the wheels were built poorly, which was confirmed by 3 reputible shops,

i had to buy a new fork to replace the dart 3s that kept snapping. i got tired of it snapping and having to wait a week for it to be replaced(ok,so i went a bit luxury with a reba race but c'mon, if you had it availible you'd get it too!)

otherwise all this money was spent on labor!

all i'm saying is that mine is a money pit.
and the fact that i weigh 220 lbs is probably a contributing factor


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## Qatarbhoy (Jun 13, 2008)

I'd add that Spesh often seems to get favoured treatment from bike mags. Several mags' reviews have appeared to soft-pedal the serious issues in the past with Spec proprietary shocks, for example, while raving about the top-end stuff to the exclusion of other brands who often offer as good or better bikes for far less dough. Some mags read like Big S corporate propaganda.


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## FujiRich (Jun 5, 2009)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> No way. They put their name on a lot of stuff, that's what Specialized does, that's what they're founded on. They did put their name on some early mountain bikes, but they weren't the first. They are Special Ed for a reason...


That's how you make £££ Bikinfoolferlife!

At the end of the day if Spec bikes aren't for you then get something else. Those people who like them will continue to do so regardless. I like them cause they seem to suit me and I've never had any trouble with mine.
I guess as long as you're happy with your ride that's the main thing.


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## jkkfam89 (Jan 2, 2007)

Lambdamaster said:


> I also think this is an issue with your LBS more so than spesh. my local spesh dealer is very good, everything, including warranty work, is taken care of with no issues or hassle.


I did put it was with the salesmans tactics. I agree it is the two LBS that I had gone too. I do believe they are pressured to sell more Specialized bikes then the other brands in their facility.. Even though there are a lot of people that dislike Specialized, the trails are full of them. I won't buy another, but that is me. They are huge for a reason, right!


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Like others have said, much resentment has to do with their legal team. My favorite example:

They pressured a company called "Epic Bikes" to change their name (now Everti) because one of spesh's bikes was called the Epic. Mind you, the term "epic" had been in common usage in mountain biking for years before Spesh came out with the Epic. Epic, er I mean Everti, caved because they new they could not afford the legal battle.

I will say, however, that while there bikes are, IMO, nothing special, I do like what they have done with some of the body geometry accessories. Their ass-o-meter pointed my wife to the first comfortable seat she has ever owned.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

RockadileSX said:


> Specialized bikes seem to be purchaced far more frequently by posers that have $$$.
> 
> Thats the only reason I hate them.


If I had a dollar for every new to mountain biking yesterday lawyer I see around here on shiny new Niners...

Anyway, does it make someone "cool" if you buy a boutique brand bike that you never tested because they aren't stocked at any local shops ?

There are alot of good riders around southeastern PA on specialized bikes because there are several specialized dealers that have test bikes to ride on dirt, not just in a parking lot. And most of their dealers have a good portion of the lineup available to see and touch.

You go to a shop around here that sells trek, fisher, cannondale... they only have a few models on the floor and want a deposit to just bring a bike in. And you aren't going to be able to ride it on a trail before paying in full. I recently went to a fisher dealer with a friend who wanted to see their full suspension 29ers. The owner of the shop says "I'm only stocking hardtail 29ers, you don't need a full suspension 29er around here". We went to the local Niner dealer - they had one bike in stock, a small, that he could only ride in the parking lot. Then we went to a big specialized shop nearby and he was able to see 3 different 29ers and take a stumpjumper fsr out for 2 days. What do you think he bought ?

The bottom line is, by asking (requiring?) their dealers to stock a good part of the lineup and having a legit test bike program they are getting more sales.

Also - if anybody cared to search the specialized forum you will see that they have replaced chainstays and seatstays under warranty.


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## ProEdgeBiker (Jun 24, 2004)

92gli said:


> If I had a dollar for every new to mountain biking yesterday lawyer I see around here on shiny new Niners...
> 
> Anyway, does it make someone "cool" if you buy a boutique brand bike that you never tested because they aren't stocked at any local shops ?
> 
> ...


Well Put!:thumbsup:


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

FujiRich said:


> That's how you make £££ Bikinfoolferlife!
> 
> At the end of the day if Spec bikes aren't for you then get something else. Those people who like them will continue to do so regardless. I like them cause they seem to suit me and I've never had any trouble with mine.
> I guess as long as you're happy with your ride that's the main thing.


I've never even entertained buying Specialized, can't think of any good reasons to give them any of my money. I'd rather make $$$, too, works better here in the US....


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## BeakJones (Oct 29, 2008)

Bikinfoolferlife said:


> I've never even entertained buying Specialized, can't think of any good reasons to give them any of my money. I'd rather make $$$, too, works better here in the US....


The balance of product, price and company rep seems as good a reason as any. Do you make bikes or something? Unless you do, the second sentence doesn't make sense to me. and if you do.... DUH.


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## RockadileSX (Apr 24, 2007)

92gli said:


> If I had a dollar for every new to mountain biking yesterday lawyer I see around here on shiny new Niners...
> 
> Anyway, does it make someone "cool" if you buy a boutique brand bike that you never tested because they aren't stocked at any local shops ?
> 
> ...


*Do I think buying a brand that is unique, is cool?* *Abo****ely.* It tells me you are willing to take a risk, which is what mtn biking is ALL ABOUT. 
Also Specialized treats small dealers like dog poo.


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## joepa150 (Jul 23, 2010)

So I see all this hate for Specialized. If I don't buy Specialized, then what should I buy that is supposedly better? I am looking to staty below $650.


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## robbyracer (Apr 9, 2009)

Just get what you like, ride and be happy.


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## 06OutlanderAWD (Oct 1, 2008)

Bought my first specialized about 2 months ago I love it, and ive never had any problems with my lbs there all great people and very knowledgable.


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## Mike Gager (Jul 30, 2010)

i like my specialized just fine


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Buy a bike , go ride it , don't worry about the decal on it .


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

This is the same thing I thought when I decided to go with a Giant. Lol I think all brands have their fair share of haters. Who cares? Do you really care? Cuz I don't. If you ride the bike and you like it? Buy it. Stfu and ride it. Honestly I could care less if anyone hates Giant bikes. I love the way they feel. Vtheir warantee and that's the reasons I need. If you like the Specialized you test rode is people hating gonna change your mind? Man I hope not. Good luck


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

Their customer service sucks! I live less than one mile from their shop but drive 22 miles one way to my Trek LBS and 27miles to my Giant LBS. I even tried to buy one once and the guy said he did'nt have time for me(First time there)?


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

RockadileSX said:


> Specialized bikes seem to be purchaced far more frequently by posers that have $$$.
> 
> Thats the only reason I hate them.


Not true! I wanted to buy a new bike and the dude BLEW ME OFF!


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

I just find it irritating when people refer to Specialized as "Speshy" I don't call my Transition a "Tranny." It sounds moronic.


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## jrabikerepair (Dec 29, 2009)

The funny thing about specialized as a company is that they have run out of marketing dollars, and are running low on R&D dollars as well. They have been a great brand for a while, but the arrogance of their higher-up staff has left them in a bad situation right now. GT bicycles has actually taken 3 of their designers and reconfigured their i-drive (now called Independent Drive) and made a much more efficient pedaling bike than most past Specialized suspension designs.
Its tough to say, but Specialized is on its way to going the way of Gary Fisher if they don't change their act soon...


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## Okie81 (Apr 7, 2010)

I lost my MTB virginity on a 03 Stumpy FSR and although I have veered in new directions since then, Specialized will always have a special place in my heart.


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## HTail (Jan 29, 2004)

Interesting to hear this, but not surprising as companies become more corporate than boutique....and the related internal turmoil/bureaucracy. Aside from their mtn bikes, road bike sales must be getting a boost given the top 2 finishers in TDF both ride Specialized.


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## gravitylover (Sep 1, 2009)

jrabikerepair said:


> The funny thing about specialized as a company is that they have run out of marketing dollars, and are running low on R&D dollars as well. They have been a great brand for a while, but the arrogance of their higher-up staff has left them in a bad situation right now.
> 
> Its tough to say, but Specialized is on its way to going the way of Gary Fisher if they don't change their act soon...


Huh? Not the "S" that I know. You must be thinking of someone else.


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## Gary H (Dec 16, 2006)

If I woulda known Special-Ed made such a bad bike and was such a bad company, I wouldn't of bought two in a row. Thanks for clearing this up guys and setting us straight. I'm taking my 10 day old Rockhopper SL Expert over to the Home Depot and trade it for that day laborers Huffy. 

Then Ill put the Huffy on Craigslist and sell it for $1500 and as soon as I do all that, Ill march right down to my LBS and buy a Trek, or a Giant!

Yanno?, Good company's that don't care about market share and all that sillyness like EBITA.

Man, I feel better already!


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## browardboy (Jul 30, 2010)

This is a very interesting read for me as I am completely new to the sport and the equipment. I just bought a Rockhopper as my first-ever MTB, primarily because it seemed like a safe and fairly acceptable purchase as an introductory trail bike and I was too eager to begin riding to continue researching alternatives and comparing the intricacies of components that I do not fully understand. So far I really like the bike and do not have any complaints.

That being said, some of the information in this thread will make me think about purchasing another one. First, their corporate practices would not be at the top of my decision making tree, but their excessive use of proprietary parts/sizes would. I didn't know... now I do. Second, if it is true that the rear triangle is not covered under their lifetime frame warranty, then I would consider this intentionally misleading. Based on these two pieces of information, I am now more interested in their corporate practices, as it is starting to look like their products and policies may not be there to benefit their customers. 

I will ride a big corporate bike all day every day if the quality, service, and value are there. If they use proprietary parts to limit my choices, that is not convenient, nor desired. Does any other bike maker define the rear triangle as a "component" that is not part of the frame? If this is not common, then this would seem like an intentional desire to avoid supporting their product and their customers.

I am very new to all of this and I am enjoying my Rockhopper. I understand why some people just ride and don't worry about all the other stuff. I also understand why people passionate about the sport, its products, and their local stores/riders will choose not to give their $$ to certain companies. I don't have a problem with a cocky, ruthless, large corporation if your putting out a product that is superior in quality, value, and convenience. That's capitalism. But if you're a cocky, ruthless corporation and you're not exceeding the competition in customer service, value, and/or quality, then why not support the smaller guy?


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

> Second, if it is true that the rear triangle is not covered under their lifetime frame warranty, then I would consider this intentionally misleading.


It's not misleading if you read the warranty terms that are posted on their website.
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/sbcfaq.jsp

Lifetime warranty does not apply to suspension components. They later define suspension components to include chain/seat stays and everything else on the rear end. Ya, they tout a lifetime warranty but the "fine print" tells another story.
Here's a snapshot.


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

VTSession said:


> I just find it irritating when people refer to Specialized as "Speshy" I don't call my Transition a "Tranny." It sounds moronic.


Yes, it should be a reference to "Special Ed" to reflect their values. Guys who ride Transitions really shouldn't mind the reference to Tranny, though? Transvestite kinda Tranny, well, maybe I could understand that. But landing to tranny?


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## browardboy (Jul 30, 2010)

eatdrinkride said:


> It's not misleading if you read the warranty terms that are posted on their website.
> http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/sbcfaq.jsp
> 
> Lifetime warranty does not apply to suspension components. They later define suspension components to include chain/seat stays and everything else on the rear end. Ya, they tout a lifetime warranty but the "fine print" tells another story.
> Here's a snapshot.


Since my rockhopper doesn't have a rear suspension, is the rear triangle still considered a component? If it is, that's a crock of you know what.

If I chose to strip a bike down to it's most elementary components, could I remove the rear triangle from the front triangle ( aka "the frame") without using a hacksaw or other cutting device?


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

browardboy said:


> Since my rockhopper doesn't have a rear suspension, is the rear triangle still considered a component? If it is, that's a crock of you know what.
> 
> If I chose to strip a bike down to it's most elementary components, could I remove the rear triangle from the front triangle ( aka "the frame") without using a hacksaw or other cutting device?


I think you're on the right track. On an FS bike, the rear triangle is mounted via pivots and bolts, so you COULD remove it. On a hard tail the frame should all be one unit.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Hardtails have no "suspension related components" other than the fork. Your triangle is part of the frame.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

VTSession said:


> I just find it irritating when people refer to Specialized as "Speshy" I don't call my Transition a "Tranny." It sounds moronic.


That's what Ibis call their Hardtail:thumbsup:


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

All this time I thought a tranny was a person that is male that dresses like a woman.


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## 06OutlanderAWD (Oct 1, 2008)

Specialized IMO is the best bike maker in the world.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

06OutlanderAWD said:


> Specialized IMO is the best bike maker in the world.


"The best you've ridden is the best you know" - Paul Thede, Race Tech :thumbsup:


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## akura (Jan 24, 2010)

The shock link on my 2004 stumpy was covered under warranty last summer when it cracked and it's a 'suspension related component'.

I think sometimes it depends how hard your lbs is willing to go after it for you.


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## voodoobike (Apr 4, 2005)

Specialized did not make the first "production" mountain bike. Ritchey and others were making production bikes per se years before. Even so Univega beat Specialized on the first "assembly line mass produced" bike by a 6 months more or less. They have just rewritten history for their own propaganda. Also they are not the friendliest company to deal with. They bully their dealers into sales quotas and punish them if they want to sell Giant or another large brand. They boycott trade shows and if they are even at the show they keep out anyone who is not a dealer. Just arrogant and conceited attitude. That's what everyone is talking about here.


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

voodoobike said:


> They boycott trade shows and if they are even at the show they keep out anyone who is not a dealer. .


This attitude has always amazed me... Enlighten me,....WTF do non-dealers belong at DEALER or Industry only trade shows? I support the big S in keeping yahoos and mooches out of these events,.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

STT GUY said:


> This attitude has always amazed me... Enlighten me,....WTF do non-dealers belong at DEALER or Industry only trade shows? I support the big S in keeping yahoos and mooches out of these events,.


I think what he meant is at Interbike you can't go into the specialized booth/room unless you're a specialzed dealer.

That's how I read it, anyways.


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

iheartbicycles said:


> I think what he meant is at Interbike you can't go into the specialized booth/room unless you're a specialzed dealer.
> 
> That's how I read it, anyways.


Great policy, That time is uber expensive for specialized and for their dealers and specialized does all of their dealers a favor by:

1) Keeping confidential dealer pricing and new/in the pipeline products away from other dealers and the public
2) Telling their dealers "we value your investment of time and money to be here... it's all about you and only you."

Good policy.


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## thrasher_s (Oct 5, 2009)

jrcxu said:


> Im not saying this was the cause of the downfall of the old mountain cycle, but I've never been a fan of Specialized ever since they threatened a lawsuit (cease and desist) over the whole Stumptown vs. Stumpjumper BS. That's right, the legal dept at Specialized actually believed a cyclocross bike hand-built in a small shop in Portland (aka Stumptown) called the Stumptown was too similar in name to their Stumpjumper mountain bike. Who do you think won that one?
> 
> After that, I've never been a fan of Spec.


When I started reading this I thought you were referring to "Stumptown Coffee" and I was almost REALLY outraged (as opposed to a little outraged).

How many nicknames does Portland have anyway? (City of Bridges, City of Roses, Stumptown, at least...)


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

STT GUY said:


> Great policy, That time is uber expensive for specialized and for their dealers and specialized does all of their dealers a favor by:
> 
> 1) Keeping confidential dealer pricing and new/in the pipeline products away from other dealers and the public
> 2) Telling their dealers "we value your investment of time and money to be here... it's all about you and only you."
> ...


You don't show dealer pricing at Interbike. That's not what it's about at all.

The whole point is to sign up new dealers and show off your stuff.

Are you a fanboi or something?


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## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

06OutlanderAWD said:


> Specialized IMO is the best bike maker in the world.


Giant bikes appreciates your compliments  lol


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## Guest (Dec 16, 2010)

I always thought that it was over priced. IMHO. And they don't have the frame shape that I like. And you can't get them cheap at an online retailer. Only eBay


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## STT GUY (May 19, 2009)

iheartbicycles said:


> You don't show dealer pricing at Interbike. That's not what it's about at all.
> 
> The whole point is to sign up new dealers and show off your stuff.
> 
> Are you a fanboi or something?


Some booths had wholesale aka dealer pricing out and anybody walking by could grab a copy.

Frankly industry trade shows are for those is the industry and not an alternative to a trip to Disney for a friend of a friend of some friends who know a guy that works for a dealer.

Specialized is doing it right. Want to become a dealer? The they avea rep make a site visit and determine if that candidate is acceptable. When you're #1 it works like that and they don't have to take anyone who can fog a mirror on as a dealer like some brands do.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

92gli said:


> You go to a shop around here that sells trek, fisher, cannondale... they only have a few models on the floor and want a deposit to just bring a bike in. And you aren't going to be able to ride it on a trail before paying in full. I recently went to a fisher dealer with a friend who wanted to see their full suspension 29ers. The owner of the shop says "I'm only stocking hardtail 29ers, you don't need a full suspension 29er around here". We went to the local Niner dealer - they had one bike in stock, a small, that he could only ride in the parking lot. Then we went to a big specialized shop nearby and he was able to see 3 different 29ers and take a stumpjumper fsr out for 2 days. What do you think he bought ?
> 
> The bottom line is, by asking (requiring?) their dealers to stock a good part of the lineup and having a legit test bike program they are getting more sales.


This is a great point.

I may very well have bought a Rumblefish or a Trance or a Mojo recently instead of the Camber I wound up with if I was able to find a shop anywhere in a 120 mile radius that would let me test one on the trails. The Niner and Yeti dealers didn't have any FS bikes close to my size to even ride around a parking lot. I was able to take each of the Specialized bikes I had an interest in out for 2 days w/ a deposit refunded upon return of an un-totalled bike and $50 per day charge that went toward a future purchase of any of them.

Say what you want about their business practices and proprietary parts, but other companies could learn something about selling their bikes from the Specialized test bike program IMO.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

Biker_Scout_Sparky said:


> nope no lies there.
> 
> FACT: Specialized screwed my shop whan my stumpy-niner cracked, they let them eat the cost of time and materials to rebuild the bike, My shop, being a really cool one just wrote it off as "cost of doing business" top it all off, it took them 3 weeks to agree to warranty what was obviously a defect and get eh frame shipped.
> 
> ...


I was reading through this post after a few of my riding buddies had issues with their Specialized. It really screws the customer when the shop he/she bought their bike from has mostly Specialized parts to replace other Specialized parts.

My buddy has an Stump jumper and he wanted to swap the stem out on. But Specialized proprietary parts won't allow this. The freaking top cap on his Stumpjumper had a offset hole for the bolt that would only fit Specialized stems. I was baffled by this. Almost $3k for a bike and it you can't simply swap out a stem.

I was also glancing through Specialized's website out of curiosity to how many proprietary parts are used. They charge $7500+ for some bikes and most parts are Specialized? Seriously? I can price out a top of the line Santa Cruz, Knolly or any other boutique frame builder's bike for thousands less than that! And when you build a bike from scratch with better components, for less $, you're free to swap and use any parts you please! Would you rather have a completely custom $6500 SC Blur LT Carbon (or any pricey trail frame) with any top components from you want or would you rather have a $7500 Specialized Enduro with mostly proprietary parts?

What a rediculous company!


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

I do not see how that could be. You have a 1.125" steer tube on the fork. Your stem is for a 1.125" steer tube. Any Stem should work. The inside diameter of the new stem would be the same size as the specialized. He should be able to use the same top cap on it.


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## curtboroff (Sep 21, 2010)

A sette headlock will end your stem/cap issue. As far as lawsuits go, most established companies have sued or have been sued. It's the American dream nowadays. Sales and legal departments do not build the bikes. Engineering, labor and quality departments do. A bunch of ******bags in a courtroom will NEVER change my mind on buying a quality product that fits me. Maby I'm lucky to have a great lbs(Summit City/Ft. Wayne,In) but customer service and warranty work has been second to none.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I always hear people say Specialized is overpriced, but when I went looking for a new trail bike with around 140mm of travel I found that to be untrue. I checked out a Pivot Mach 5.7, Ibis Mojo SL, Yeti 575, SC Blur LT, Giant Reign, and a couple other bikes, and the best deals I found (when comparing similarly spec'd bikes) were from the two largest companies, the Giant Reign and the Specialized Stumpjumper. 

I ended up going with the Stumpjumper, and when I was picking my bike up I talked with a guy who had a shock mount weld crack on his 2001 Enduro. He was there to pickup his free frame replacement, a 2010 Enduro. That's pretty good customer service in my opinion.


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## eat_dirt (May 26, 2008)

i hate specialized for several reasons. 

first of all, i've had three spec bikes, a rockhopper, crossroads XC, and singlecross (tricross variant).

all three came at an MSRP that other bikes provide decent component groups, the spec bikes came with cheap alex rims, tektro brakes, bargain basement cranks, and crappy shifters.

rockhopper: front derailer never worked right, eventually bought a new one (deore) because specialized refused to replace broken alivio, problem fixed, my cost. the alex rims broke after 6 months of trail use--tho spokes at each wheel sheared off at the eyelets. once again specialized refused to fix a bike which was being used on trails in a nonabusive way, bought new rims at my cost. eventually the rear chain stay cracked. specialized refused to fix that, too, claiming neglect. 700 bike went in the trash.

crossroads XC: came with out of true alex rims, crappy shifters, tektro brakes, sugino crank that started rust at an alarming rate. had LBS true wheels (at my cost, specialized refused to pay), replaced brakes which didn't work (at my cost). eventually got sick of the bike, let it rust to hell, then replaced every part with leftovers from a 29er build and finally have the bike it SHOULD have been, reliable and high quality--with only one specialized part on the entire frame, the seat collar.

tricross singlecross: crappy alexrims, crappy brakes, crappy sugino crank. no probs with shifters because there weren't any. crank kept making a popping noise, started to rust. specialized refused to fix it, claimed neglect. replaced it with a stylo and surly ring, no problems after that. alex rims kept getting out of true, specialized refused to address issue. looked up parts on internet and figured it'd cost me 400 bucks to upgrade the bike where i wanted it, so instead sold it.

why did i keep returning to specialized? 

simple, i love their geometry and frame construction. but they're lacking in many other areas.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

Sounds like you're hard on bikes, and maybe should stop buying the low-end stuff. I have never had a single problem with my 07 Epic or 08 Tarmac. I did buy an Allez Steel last summer, which came with a frame that was out of alignment, but they gave me a new bike without too much fuss.


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

Mr. Lynch said:


> I always hear people say Specialized is overpriced, but when I went looking for a new trail bike with around 140mm of travel I found that to be untrue. I checked out a Pivot Mach 5.7, Ibis Mojo SL, Yeti 575, SC Blur LT, Giant Reign, and a couple other bikes, and the best deals I found (when comparing similarly spec'd bikes) were from the two largest companies, the Giant Reign and the Specialized Stumpjumper.
> 
> I ended up going with the Stumpjumper, and when I was picking my bike up I talked with a guy who had a shock mount weld crack on his 2001 Enduro. He was there to pickup his free frame replacement, a 2010 Enduro. That's pretty good customer service in my opinion.


The Pivot, Ibis, Yeti and Santa Cruz bikes are all boutique bikes, the Giant and Specialized are all mass produced bike.

Apple to Kiwi............ Not even in the same ballpark.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

sxr-racer said:


> The Pivot, Ibis, Yeti and Santa Cruz bikes are all boutique bikes, the Giant and Specialized are all mass produced bike.
> 
> Apple to Kiwi............ Not even in the same ballpark.


I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion.

Ibis, Yeti, SC, Pivot, Turner, Niner, et al and Specialized, Giant, Trek, and Cannondale all make bikes targeted at basically the same users within a specific category (ie:XC Race, 5"trail bike, 160mm AM bike, etc.) and compete directly for consumer $ within those categories.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Mr. Lynch said:


> I always hear people say Specialized is overpriced, but when I went looking for a new trail bike with around 140mm of travel I found that to be untrue. I checked out a Pivot Mach 5.7, Ibis Mojo SL, Yeti 575, SC Blur LT, Giant Reign, and a couple other bikes, and the best deals I found (when comparing similarly spec'd bikes) were from the two largest companies, the Giant Reign and the Specialized Stumpjumper.
> 
> I ended up going with the Stumpjumper, and when I was picking my bike up I talked with a guy who had a shock mount weld crack on his 2001 Enduro. He was there to pickup his free frame replacement, a 2010 Enduro. That's pretty good customer service in my opinion.


I don't know where/how you shopped for your bike and made the comparison. For example Ibis Sl-R, Santa Cruz BLTC and Yeti 575 are all cheaper than Spech Stumpy pro in both frame price and built kit.

Top spec Ibis SL was $5500 when Spech at $7000+ now Ibis SL-R is $6675 V.S. S pech $7700. Even the based model Ibis SL-R is $400 less. I got my BLTC at a great deal from my LBS it can't even buy an alu spech. Yeti 575 carbon frame is half the price of Spech carbon frame.

If you like Spech say you like it, there's no need to put others down. My friends bought 2 Spech and he went experienced this. Apple to Apple comparison like sxr-racer said:thumbsup:


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

I think one of the biggest reasons people have issues with Specialized is their dealers attitudes. From my experience, 3 different cities, same arrogant service people. Even knew/ rode with one of them. Not to say it's like that everywhere but my experience at least. So left a bad taste and now I just avoid those shops.

Edit: was trying to be nice but in all honesty, they were a bunch of d-bags with chips on their shoulders


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## S_Trek (May 3, 2010)

Crosstown Stew said:


> I think one of the biggest reasons people have issues with Specialized is their dealers attitudes. From my experience, 3 different cities, same arrogant service people. Even knew/ rode with one of them. Not to say it's like that everywhere but my experience at least. So left a bad taste and now I just avoid those shops.
> 
> Edit: was trying to be nice but in all honesty, they were a bunch of d-bags with chips on their shoulders


Agree!


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## Devastazione (Dec 16, 2009)

Interesting topic.

Specialized bikes are like Apple computers,you hate them but once you start using them you can't use anything else I guess. God,I hate my f*****g Macbook but what can I do ?? Go back to a messy PC ?? 
So far no issues and plenty of fun on my Stumpy FSR. 
Plenty of issues on my so called "boutique bikes" Lapierres wich cost the equivalent of 2 Stumpys and their frames cracks like they're made out of crystal.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

Crosstown Stew said:


> I think one of the biggest reasons people have issues with Specialized is their dealers attitudes. From my experience, 3 different cities, same arrogant service people. Even knew/ rode with one of them. Not to say it's like that everywhere but my experience at least. So left a bad taste and now I just avoid those shops.
> 
> Edit: was trying to be nice but in all honesty, they were a bunch of d-bags with chips on their shoulders


Huh, Weird. I've had kind of the opposite experience here. A number of the boutique bike shops in the area acted like pricks in general and like I should be begging for the privilege to purchase one of their oh so exclusive bikes that I couldn't even sit on prior to paying in full, where as the vast majority of the guys I've dealt with at the 5 store LBS chain that's the Specialized dealer in town have seemed generally straightforward, helpful, and respectful.

That's not to say that there aren't exceptions on the staff at the Specialized dealer or cool small LBSs. There are a couple of smaller shops that I've been to that seem very cool, and I'd love to throw some bike-sized business their way, but they didn't seem to have the stuff that I was interested in stock to check out.


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## Sid Nitzerglobin (Sep 17, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> I don't know where/how you shopped for your bike and made the comparison. For example Ibis Sl-R, Santa Cruz BLTC and Yeti 575 are all cheaper than Spech Stumpy pro in both frame price and built kit.
> 
> Top spec Ibis SL was $5500 when Spech at $7000+ now Ibis SL-R is $6675 V.S. S pech $7700. Even the based model Ibis SL-R is $400 less. I got my BLTC at a great deal from my LBS it can't even buy an alu spech. Yeti 575 carbon frame is half the price of Spech carbon frame.
> 
> If you like Spech say you like it, there's no need to put others down. My friends bought 2 Spech and he went experienced this. Apple to Apple comparison like sxr-racer said:thumbsup:


Hmm... Comparing MSRPs and components on Niner, Ibis, Yeti, Specialized, Trek, and Giant in the $2500-4000 trail bike segment it all seemed pretty competitive to me. I was happier with the overall component package on the bike I did wind up going with than the comparably priced options from Trek or Giant and the boutique brands didn't seem to have any frame and build kit combos available at the same price I wound up paying for the Specialized (~$2500). I could have been missing something though and priorities can vary a good deal from person to person.

I've never gone into a detailed value comparison at anything above the ~$4000 price point though. I try not to look too closely at the stuff I really can't afford in an effort to keep myself out of serious trouble.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

I have no hate for Specialized, actually I like them. But I will say this, I've been hitting a lot of bike shops getting an idea of what I want to buy right now (ended up with a used 2008 or 09 GT Avalanche 2.0 for pretty cheep)... it seems for about equivalent dollars, you don't get as nice of fork/components as on other bikes. Example I was looking at Hardrocks and Rockhoppers, the various models within. I'm pretty sure the ones close to $700-800 or so sometimes had SR Suntour fork and didn't have SLX rear derailleur etc. Seems like on other brands, you can get higher end components for the same dollars (or less). Maybe the Specialized frames are considered to be some of the best, I don't know.

But I do dig Specialized. I was drooling over a single-speed Stumpjumper at my local shop... I think it was like $2100 or so, sure looked sweet!


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## Fly Rod (Mar 13, 2007)

Very interesting. I suspect those who are spending so much time bashing have separate agendas or too much time on thier hands.

Fwiw, I have owned @ 6 high end boutique bikes all exceptional performers. I have ridden alot more. My new Epic 29er Carbon Expert is, IMHO, the finest xc bike I have ever ridden. So much for not building performance or competitive bikes. This bike is cutting edge.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

VTSession said:


> I was reading through this post after a few of my riding buddies had issues with their Specialized. It really screws the customer when the shop he/she bought their bike from has mostly Specialized parts to replace other Specialized parts.
> 
> My buddy has an Stump jumper and he wanted to swap the stem out on. But Specialized proprietary parts won't allow this. The freaking top cap on his Stumpjumper had a offset hole for the bolt that would only fit Specialized stems. I was baffled by this. Almost $3k for a bike and it you can't simply swap out a stem.
> 
> What a rediculous company!


It's rediculous that he would need a new stem cap to use a new stem?

That Specialized stem can be used at several different angles compared to the 2 angles that other stems can be used. So, it's a lot more versatile than a normal stem, but it does have an oddball stem cap.

That Specialized stem can absolutely be swapped our for a 'regular' stem. The oversized cap with the offest hole is part of the stem assembly on that stem because it uses an insert that allows you to change the rise angle by merely rotating or changing the non-concentrically (is that a word?) milled insert(s).

Stem:
http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=57233

Offset Cap:

http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCEqProduct.jsp?spid=57234

All your friend would need in addition to his new stem, is a tradional sized stem cap which you can get here for $6.71 including shipping.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bicycle-Stem-He...Cycling_Parts_Accessories&hash=item335e40e4cf

Stem caps are also readily available at any half decent local bike shop, and probably many indecent shops as well 

I like the convertible specialized stems. I use one on my non-Specialized bike. Works great.


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## Fly Rod (Mar 13, 2007)

jeffj said:


> It's rediculous that he would need a new stem cap to use a new stem?
> 
> That Specialized stem can be used at several different angles compared to the 2 angles that other stems can be used. So, it's a lot more versatile than a normal stem, but it does have an oddball stem cap.
> 
> ...


But then he and his buddy couldn't bash Specialized!

This world of spoon fed babies who have to have it now, their way and bro deal cheap is getting old. I say quit whining and ride!

Fwiw, Toyota pulled the same kind of stuff on my LC. I want to run 35x12.5x15's and they put those stupid 16" rims on the truck! Totally harshed my grove!:nono


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## GOTA (Apr 21, 2011)

Crosstown Stew said:


> I think one of the biggest reasons people have issues with Specialized is their dealers attitudes. From my experience, 3 different cities, same arrogant service people. Even knew/ rode with one of them. Not to say it's like that everywhere but my experience at least. So left a bad taste and now I just avoid those shops.
> 
> Edit: was trying to be nice but in all honesty, they were a bunch of d-bags with chips on their shoulders


In my area that's how the Trek dealers act. I was looking for a bike and went to the LBS called the Trek Store and I couldn't even get anyone to wait on me. I guess I didn't look the part for them. I had experienced similar attitudes from 2 other Trek dealers over the years.

I ended up buying a Jamis from a dealer that also carried Specialized, Fuji and Raleigh. They couldn't have been more helpful.


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## Colo Springs E (Dec 20, 2009)

The attitude of the people in a bike shop does make an impression on you for sure. I feel like most of the shops here in Colo Springs are pretty good guys. There's even a pretty high-end "boutique" type shop that carries Specialized, Yeti, Moots and other nice bikes. But those guys treated me like a valued customer when I brought in an old cheapie Avalanche I bought on craigslist. I want to convert it to a 1x8, and since they were so friendly and helpful (and worked in a minor adjustment on the spot), I placed the order for the crank/bashguard/etc from them.


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## Thalamos (Jun 14, 2009)

I'm not a Specialized hater but I've got friends that are Specialized fanboys and hack on me for still riding my '96 Cannondale Killer V. My Killer V was handmade in the USA, your Specialized is stamped out in a factory somewhere in Taiwan. The soul is gone from the manufacturers that used to make their frames in the states. The big brand bikes nowadays just don't have good kung fu.

Try to buy an USA made frame now will cost you and arm and a leg. So, I buy old USA made stuff online. Anyways, I digress.

Thal


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## Devastazione (Dec 16, 2009)

Thalamos said:


> I'm not a Specialized hater but I've got friends that are Specialized fanboys and hack on me for still riding my '96 Cannondale Killer V. My Killer V was handmade in the USA, your Specialized is stamped out in a factory somewhere in Taiwan. The soul is gone from the manufacturers that used to make their frames in the states. The big brand bikes nowadays just don't have good kung fu.
> 
> Try to buy an USA made frame now will cost you and arm and a leg. So, I buy old USA made stuff online. Anyways, I digress.
> 
> Thal


I see that but I do not agree,at least if bottom line the quality I get is superior on my "chinese" frame.

Take for example my Lapierre XControl, it's "hand made" in France they say and Lapierre frames are well known for having a lot of issues and cracks. My XControl was no exception,the bottom bracket area had been badly manufactured/sized and the granny wheel was grinding the damn thing out,something you do not expect on a 5600 Euro price tag of a bike,you don't expect it to be manufactured like that nor to arrive at the shop like that, it means no final inspection was given either.
Long live the precise,mass produced and standardized Taiwan's frame industry. I can deal with the inflated price as long as I can get a reliable frame.
I do have to remind that Specialized recalled 100% of the 2010 Brain equipped Epics to correct the brain/frame bolt issue or someting, even if a lot of Epic's owners did not report any problem.
The first reply I had from Lapierre after I've showed them the damage on the BB claiming for a warranty job it's been " impossible,yuo've done that,you must have play with the crank or something..." :madmax:....cmon man....boutique bikes...?? No thanks..:skep:


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## e-luder (Mar 25, 2008)

Thalamos said:


> Try to buy an USA made frame now will cost you and arm and a leg. So, I buy old USA made stuff online. Anyways, I digress.
> 
> Thal


Buying a new Taiwan bike does more for our economy than buying an old US made bike. But if you like bragging about that made in america sticker go right ahead.

Back to topic. There is always two if not three sides to these stories. Buy a bike because it fits you and its in your price range.


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## maxxdout (May 24, 2011)

I've been riding a 1995-1998 hardrock and the bike is just stupidly solid. I ride it mostly every day on the road, on trails, and I even jump it and it never complains. Everything on the bike still works but I'm going to need some rear brake pads soon...


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## Thalamos (Jun 14, 2009)

ronabrandt said:


> Buying a new Taiwan bike does more for our economy than buying an old US made bike.


You're sorta right. If you're thinking of a global economy, you've hit the nail on the head. If you're thinking of the US economy, Specialized moving all of its manufacturing jobs overseas didn't help the families of the folks that lost those jobs and hurt the local economies that they were employing folks in. But hey, sell your soul to increase that profit margin, big daddy! Turn those pieces of art into an assembly line grind that does more for a foreign economy than it does for the country buying the product.:thumbsup:



ronabrandt said:


> But if you like bragging about that made in america sticker go right ahead..


That's just wrong in so many ways.... The sticker doesn't have a thing to do with it.



ronabrandt said:


> Back to topic. There is always two if not three sides to these stories. Buy a bike because it fits you and its in your price range.


:thumbsup: But if a sticker on the bike says, "Not for off road use." please don't break a collar bone out on a trail somewhere.

Again, I have nothing against Specialized in particular. They moved their manufacturing to Asia where the labor is much cheaper. Just like all of the other big boys did. Specialized isn't a company that I put on a pedestal any longer. I don't have allegience to any of them. Specialized and Cannondale aren't the same companies they used to be. They have become corporatized but still try to show that they "down with the riders".:nono: It's pretty pathetic really.

Thal


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## e-luder (Mar 25, 2008)

Thalamos said:


> You're sorta right. If you're thinking of a global economy, you've hit the nail on the head. If you're thinking of the US economy, Specialized moving all of its manufacturing jobs overseas didn't help the families of the folks that lost those jobs and hurt the local economies that they were employing folks in. But hey, sell your soul to increase that profit margin, big daddy! Turn those pieces of art into an assembly line grind that does more for a foreign economy than it does for the country buying the product.:thumbsup:
> 
> That's just wrong in so many ways.... The sticker doesn't have a thing to do with it.
> 
> ...


Specialized has been producing in Taiwan for long time. They employ or are responsible for the employment of a lot of Americans, probably more than most, if not all of the manufactures that build their frames in the US (individually). I just don't see how buying an old frame from a company that most likely no longer employs the welder that made your frame 10+ years ago is better for the US economy than buying a new Specialized bike from your LBS. Im not trying to villainize anyone, it just doesn't add up. Would I be happier with Specailized or any of the the other big guys built a factory on home soil that could produce as high quality frames as they do in asia, you bet your bike I would.


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## fast540 (May 29, 2011)

i broke two m2 stumpjumpers back in the mid 90s in the first six months of ownership,but it was new metal matrix tech back then and they took care of me alright plus i think most of those broke back then.i sold the new one they gave me bought an ibis ss and never looked back.that memerory still taints my opinion of spec so when i got back into bikes recently i shopped elsewhere


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## Thalamos (Jun 14, 2009)

*Where Was Your Bike Made?*



ronabrandt said:


> Specialized has been producing in Taiwan for long time. They employ or are responsible for the employment of a lot of Americans, probably more than most, if not all of the manufactures that build their frames in the US (individually). I just don't see how buying an old frame from a company that most likely no longer employs the welder that made your frame 10+ years ago is better for the US economy than buying a new Specialized bike from your LBS. Im not trying to villainize anyone, it just doesn't add up. Would I be happier with Specailized or any of the the other big guys built a factory on home soil that could produce as high quality frames as they do in asia, you bet your bike I would.


Going to address the economical impact of buying a bike from a private seller as opposed to buying from your local bike shop first. I have to qualify that I would buy a frame from a private seller in the USA. I would be buying an American made product and giving the money to an American seller who will in turn spend that money in the American market place. Heck, could even turn around and spend the money I paid back at his/her LBS. Fact, is that it would go straight back into the economy. I buy everything else from my LBS. Gear, apparel, components and services I gladly put money on the table for. Heck, there's a higher percentage of profit on accessories than bikes anyway, that is if you're dealing with an ethical LBS.

Secondly, the being built in China and Taiwan issue. Here's a link to an interesting article that you may want to take a gander at http://allanti.com/articles/where-was-my-bike-made-pg328.htm This statement from the article pretty much sums it up for me, "After all, if you are led to believe by a bunch of marketing people that your bike was handmade in Spain when it was actually mass-produced in a Chinese factory, would you buy that bike? Maybe - but you wouldn't pay a premium for it." Would pay a premium for any bike made in China or Taiwan.

Look fellers, I'm not trying to fault anyone about their tastes and preferences for bike companies. Go, spend your money on what you want, its your money. Me? I've got my own money to spend on what I want. 

Thal


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## FireLikeIYA (Mar 15, 2009)

Specialized... You can buy better but you can't pay more.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Late to the party.. whats wrong with the big S? Its not like they're trek or something! :lol:


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## dantzig (Sep 28, 2010)

I'd buy a used Specialized but I probably wouldn't buy a new one. Their recent move to Suntour forks on all of their entry-mid range bikes really turns me off. A $700+ Rockhopper should really come with something better... However, they're not alone among the big names in switching to Suntour


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