# My scariest moment ever in cycling



## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

Last night, I did a group ride at one of our local trails. I got there about an hour before the group ride to get in a lap or two on my own before everyone got there. As I was on the backside of the trail high above the river, I crested a little rise to find 2 large Dobermans standing in the trail.

They were as startled as I was and immediately took a very aggressive posture with ears pinned back and teeth bared and coming towards me. I immediately got off my bike and put it between the dogs and I and took a very authoritative tone to try to get get them to back off. They would back off a bit and then get braver again and creep back towards me until I yelled at them again. Although it was probably just a few minutes, but the stalemate seemed to last forever. 

They finally backed off one time enough that I jumped on my bike and hauled ass the other way and they immediately took up the chase. One of them gave up pretty quickly, but after a couple of hundred yards it became apparent that the second one was going to catch me. I stopped and became very aggressive and loud to it and I guess it sensed it no longer had numbers on me, backed off and let me go. I rode back the other way and jumped on the road as soon as possible.

We did not see them again on the group ride. I saw a parks person and told her about it and she said that a house across from the park has a bunch of dogs that get loose and get into the park, but they have never bitten anyone. It did not make me feel any better. My adrenaline is rushing just typing this. Nothing that I would want to have happen again.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

It sounds like you handled the situation pretty well.


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## The_rydster (Sep 27, 2006)

Dogs are the biggest pain and nuisance on some of the trails where I live.

90% seem to be well behaved but there is always the unpredictability factor.

Carrying pepper spray/mace would be a good idea - give the owner a blast also if they can't control their beasts.

Personally I would be happy if dogs did not exist but I know many people love them.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Call animal control.


...at least they didn't sexually assault you by sniffing your crotch.


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## Evil Patrick (Sep 13, 2004)

In your case, that would have been a pretty scary encounter. The only other option might
have been to say "Where's the kitty? Where's the kitty?" or "FRISBEE?" and then pretend 
to throw something. 

:lol: :lol:


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## YuriB (Jan 12, 2004)

Evil Patrick said:


> In your case, that would have been a pretty scary encounter. The only other option might
> have been to say "Where's the kitty? Where's the kitty?" or "FRISBEE?" and then pretend
> to throw something.
> 
> :lol: :lol:


or "Look, defenseless babies"


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## mtbnewguy (Nov 29, 2004)

I hope it never happens to you again... but if it does: play dead!


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## Mrledzeppelin (Apr 4, 2008)

Really seems you handled it well. I takes some balls to be authoritative to a dog and when you're actually tipping towards the scared sh*tless scale. (been there)

Like the idea of carrying pepper spray to hose down the dumbarse owner.


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## Jaydude (Apr 1, 2006)

*Intense Story*

That got my heart rate up a bit. Sounds scary as hell.

Have your bike pump handy and use it as a club if need be.


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## Cobretti (May 23, 2005)

YuriB said:


> or "Look, defenseless babies"


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## Err (Mar 21, 2005)

You guys are wimps, a couple of dobies enough to scare you off? Whatever...


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## Deme Moore (Jun 15, 2007)

Now if you were carrying a Glock you could'a pooped a cap in them Mofos. The owner too once you found their address on the doggie tag.

Now stop being a pansy and make sure you're packing next time!


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## u2metoo (Jul 4, 2006)

Let me guess, they weren't filming an Alltel commercial.

Hey, Look a puppy...


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

Err said:


> You guys are wimps, a couple of dobies enough to scare you off? Whatever...


Err, dogs can be a hazard


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## sub (May 12, 2007)

It sounds like you did the right thing. I'm glad you are alright.

Although some people are responding like they are bad-azzes, I'm sure they would be empathetic as soon as they were in the same situation.

I had started thinking about what to do when faced with dogs last week. 
Hit a wrong turn on a trail I've taken a many times and came down the hill into the middle of a pitbull farm. The old lady there motioned me to go on through the dozen or so barking dogs to get to the road out of there. I was sure happy they were all chained up.

Anyways, one dog attacks, sure. Most people shouldn't have much problem fending it off with a bike or some tool. But two or more? What do you do? How do you defend yourself against a pack of dogs?


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## Evil Patrick (Sep 13, 2004)

Deme Moore said:


> Now if you were carrying a Glock you could'a pooped a cap in them Mofos. The owner too once you found their address on the doggie tag.
> 
> Now stop being a pansy and make sure you're packing next time!


"pooped" a cap?



:lol: :lol: :lol:

"Packing" a diaper?


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## okay_player (Dec 19, 2004)

I can only imagine how frightening this must have been... sounds like you handled it very well, but at the same time, were also very lucky that only 1 of them really chased you. As soon as I read that you turned around and started hauling ass, I just KNEW they were going to chase you.. that's what dogs do. Not sure I would have had the balls to do the same thing but I probably wouldn't have lasted as long in the first place, so good on ya for making it out unscathed.

Stuff like this is really frustrating to hear about, you could have sustained very serious injuries had you not handled it so well. Someone ought to notify the authorities and let them take care of the owner, this stuff should not be happening.


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## TrekFan (Apr 21, 2005)

rkj__ said:


> Err, dogs can be a hazard


that video is hilarious. that "what the hell did i do?" look that the dog gives the camera at the end is priceless.

as for the doberman incident, i don't know what the hell i'd do. i suppose i'd try looking for a big sharp stick or a nice rock to bash their heads in if they attacked, but i just don't know. ****ing inconsiderate people


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## spcarter (Nov 17, 2007)

you handled everything pretty well up to the point that you tried too book out of there. In situations like this running away can turn on the animals predator, prey instinct thus the chase. I know it's sh!t your pants scary but you need to stand your ground, be dominant and back off slowly until you are far enough away for the dogs to be comfortable again and then book out of there. The big deal here is that you display calm dominant energy, because unless your dealing with a naturally submissive animal, yelling will just rile it up more.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

Wow scary story! I've come across some mean dogs while hiking. That is why I also bring my 9mm. I would have probably not even hesitated to shoot both of the dogs. I've done it before. I ended up shooting someone's german shepherd on a hiking trail that was off it's leash. It came after me and wouldn't back down. Fired 2 warning shots, one in the air and one by the dog, it just kept coming, so I shot the dog. The owner came around the bend of the trail about 2 minutes later screaming at me and threatening to call the police and have me arrested for animal cruelty. Some people are so stupid!


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## c0b2a (Jun 15, 2008)

Scariest story while biking..... I got a mongoose while i was in Iraq to ride from my hooch to the motor pool... cause it was quite a walk so it saved allot of time. Well one day I was on my way to the motor pool when the FOB came under mortar fire. The 3 round that came in hit about 20 feet away from me while i was riding.. the shrapnel went into a parked Humvee that was in the lot I was crossing. That was the biggest OH **** moment i have had while riding.


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## Cobretti (May 23, 2005)

Evil Patrick said:


> "pooped" a cap?


I think I've got it-

Step 1- Consume cap.

2- Allow time for cap to travel thru digestive track.

3- If accosted by dogs, poop cap in their general direction.

4- Poop cap at owner once you find their address.

5- Don't forget to pack diaper.

:thumbsup:


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## Snuffleupagus (May 27, 2005)

spcarter said:


> you handled everything pretty well up to the point that you tried too book out of there. In situations like this running away can turn on the animals predator, prey instinct thus the chase. I know it's sh!t your pants scary but you need to stand your ground, be dominant and back off slowly until you are far enough away for the dogs to be comfortable again and then book out of there. The big deal here is that you display calm dominant energy, because unless your dealing with a naturally submissive animal, yelling will just rile it up more.


Dead on.

The show/books really do have good advice in them. I used to have problems with dogs, not so anymore. I live in the south as well, where the most common dogs are misunderstood big breeds like pitts. If you're fearful and let the dog control you, things can be bad. If you're calm and in control the dogs will either leave you alone, or want to be your friend...


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## The_rydster (Sep 27, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> Wow scary story! I've come across some mean dogs while hiking. That is why I also bring my 9mm. I would have probably not even hesitated to shoot both of the dogs. I've done it before. I ended up shooting someone's german shepherd on a hiking trail that was off it's leash. It came after me and wouldn't back down. Fired 2 warning shots, one in the air and one by the dog, it just kept coming, so I shot the dog. The owner came around the bend of the trail about 2 minutes later screaming at me and threatening to call the police and have me arrested for animal cruelty. Some people are so stupid!


Excellent! :thumbsup:

I like your style.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

DrNickels said:


> Some people are so stupid!


You shot somebody's pet, and you feel good about it?


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## cat.chili (Mar 16, 2006)

rkj__ said:


> You shot somebody's pet, and you feel good about it?


it wasn't a pet, it was a hazard - and I don't think he said he felt good about it


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## Grampa (Jan 21, 2004)

c0b2a said:


> Scariest story while biking..... I got a mongoose while i was in Iraq to ride from my hooch to the motor pool... cause it was quite a walk so it saved allot of time. Well one day I was on my way to the motor pool when the FOB came under mortar fire. The 3 round that came in hit about 20 feet away from me while i was riding.. the shrapnel went into a parked Humvee that was in the lot I was crossing. That was the biggest OH **** moment i have had while riding.


Now _that_'s scary!!!!


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## Otter (Feb 2, 2004)

Holly Crap Fett...was it BCSP (not sure about the river part)? Glad to hear things worked out ok for you. Hope to see you next time I'm down that way.


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## Fett (Jan 6, 2004)

Otter said:


> Holly Crap Fett...was it BCSP (not sure about the river part)? Glad to hear things worked out ok for you. Hope to see you next time I'm down that way.


Thanks for the thought. No, it was at Mascatatuck in North Vernon. The next DINO race is there and was turning some laps to get ready. See you out on the trail sometime.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by rkj__
> You shot somebody's pet, and you feel good about it?
> 
> it wasn't a pet, it was a hazard - and I don't think he said he felt good about it


I shot someone's pet, and yes I figured it was someone's pet since german shepherds are not native to south eastern ohio. I did not want to shoot the dog. It was not wearing a collar or any tags of any sort. The owner was nowhere to be found. I was hoping the two warning shots would be enough to back the dog down, or alert the owner to quickly get their dog because someone was in danger. I felt extremely horrible about killing someone's dog, and still feel bad, but I am not going to be a can of Alpo to someone's pet because they are too stupid to know how it will act around other people. I would have rather shot the owner for their stupidity and failure to keep their dog, a member of their family safe. 
I felt extremely threatened, tried all the things I could think of (backing away slowly, talking in a stern voice, firing warning shots even at the dog) and still the dog would not yield. It is like any other situation that is a survival situation; you put me in danger where I feel great bodily harm may come to me whether you be human, dog, bear, coyote, etc. and I will do what is needed to defend myself. I don't want this turning into an F88 discussion about animal rights or right to carry. We've heard it all before and it is a personal decision to carry a weapon and use it if you need to to defend yourself.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

*you need a Velo Dog:*

years ago, they sold the "Velo Dog", made just for bicycle riders in your situation (I'm serious, this was sold in the 1890-1910 range):
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=102417272#PIC


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I am one that has never been afraid of any dog, and the dogs sense it. I have been around dogs all of my life. By showing fear they pick up on it and respond in a threatening way. By you immediately showing fear instead of talking to them in a soothing voice you came across as being threatening. You then tried to pedal away which in turn made the situation worse. They assumed a predatory response by chasing you down. If it happens again try to stay calm [they sense fear] and talk to them. Once they realize you are not a threat 99% of the time they calm down and respond positively. If you try this and it fails do not run or pedal away but rather play dead. They then perceive themselves as being the more dominate one and will leave you alone.


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## mattsteve (Dec 28, 2004)

bend down and pick up a rock.

Seems like this is unspoken language for most dogs.....even ones that have never had anything thrown at them.


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## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

*yikes* One is a fair fight. With two you're moving into "limb from limb" territory -- a whole new fear factor. Glad it turned out ok. 

I'm cracking up because I just arrived in MN after 8 days on the road (and not so on the road) from Moab. The "not so" part was the four days spent in Gothenburg, NE (best little town in America) gleefully riding through sprinklers and just generally pretending I was six again. Along with the complete absence of any remotely technical offerings the worst that town could throw at you was this Jack Russel Terrier. And the worst he could do was smother you with love.


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## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

Oops, forgot about this shot. Just when you think it's safe in Gothenburg....


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

rkj__ said:


> You shot somebody's pet, and you feel good about it?


He can't answer that question because the story he told is a lie.

BS-O-Meter 0|-------/--|10


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## Pableras (Aug 8, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I am one that has never been afraid of any dog, and the dogs sense it. I have been around dogs all of my life. By showing fear they pick up on it and respond in a threatening way. By you immediately showing fear instead of talking to them in a soothing voice you came across as being threatening. You then tried to pedal away which in turn made the situation worse. They assumed a predatory response by chasing you down. If it happens again try to stay calm [they sense fear] and talk to them. Once they realize you are not a threat 99% of the time they calm down and respond positively. If you try this and it fails do not run or pedal away but rather play dead. They then perceive themselves as being the more dominate one and will leave you alone.


Yeah man, that's easy to say for you, but I've never had any dogs and when I find them on the trail it's imposible for me to stay calm, specially if they run towards me.

Once I was on a trail that I didn't know and suddenly 9 dogs (yes, I say NINE small ****ing dogs) appearred in front of me(I suppose that they came from a farm that was near there).

They stood absolutely still about 100m from me. I inmediately dismounted the bike and put it across the trail. I was totally scared. The dogs where in a defensive position (you know ears up and ready to run) and I started walking backwards very slow.

As I started walking, the ****ing dogs started to bark and run towards me.

Believe me, those dogs were small but fast and agressive as hell. They were at only 50 m from me and I stopped walking, so they stopped again, but this time they were barking.

I shouted very loud (I never imagine I could scream so loud) and they turned 180 º. I thought that I was safe and started pedalling like crazy.

GREAT MISTAKE!, they started running and reached me in a few seconds. So I was pedalling with about 5 dogs near my pedals trying to bite me (the other 4 didn't want to run  )

I've never been so scared in my life, and instinctly I screamed LOUD.

The dogs stopped and left me alone. Once I was at a safe distance I stopped (I couldn't breathe after such a sprint) and I saw the dogs walking back home.

Since then I always ask the locals in order to know if I'll find dogs, 'cause I don't want to be in the same situation ever!!! :madmax:

And just another thought: I've always heard "dog lovers" saying things like
:
"Oh man, it's cruel for my dogs to be tied when we go for a walk, they are free and that's why a don't tie them"

That is a hypocritical attitude, because THEY (humans) are being cruel with animals as they are depriving their dogs of their fredom, so a ****ing leash on their collar won't be any worse


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## ar1981 (Oct 11, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> Wow scary story! I've come across some mean dogs while hiking. That is why I also bring my 9mm. I would have probably not even hesitated to shoot both of the dogs. I've done it before. I ended up shooting someone's german shepherd on a hiking trail that was off it's leash. It came after me and wouldn't back down. Fired 2 warning shots, one in the air and one by the dog, it just kept coming, so I shot the dog. The owner came around the bend of the trail about 2 minutes later screaming at me and threatening to call the police and have me arrested for animal cruelty. Some people are so stupid!


You're a pretty disgusting, gutless person in my opinion.


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## LuMach (Jun 3, 2008)

I'd like to shake DrNickels' hand! 

People gotta start learning the hard way to keep their damn dogs on a leash. Dogs are a constant problem at one of my favorite local trails, there are signs everywhere about keeping your pet on a leash and picking up their crap but only about 10% of people actually do it... and the problem isn't only rottweilers and shepherds jumping out of the bushes and chasing you, it's the times I've almost hit trees trying to avoid running over someone's little dog that comes at you from around corners.


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## emery14 (Jun 4, 2008)

When I was a kid living in rural Scotland was regularly chased by sheep dogs on my bike. They were never that big, but then never was I. Best advice I was ever given was to put your foot on its head and push its nose into the spokes.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I'm a dog lover, lived with a dog for most of my 47 years. Anti-social dogs should be shot and killed. Their owners are subjecting the world to dog bites and maulings. Here in the Chicago area Forest Preserves people are raising dogs for fighting. The dogs get free and maim/kill innocent hikers and bikers. Any dog that get aggressive with a hiker or biker can and should be shot. If you don't want your dog shot and killed, keep it on a leash, it is the law. It really is that simple :thumbsup:

If you've every had a kid mauled by a dog who's owners knew to be anti-social, you'd think more like me....


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## Jorgemonkey (Mar 10, 2004)

HotBlack said:


> ...at least they didn't sexually assault you by sniffing your crotch.


That was one of the first threads I read on MTBR.

Its still funny every time I think about it!


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## Camshaft213 (Feb 16, 2008)

ar1981 said:


> You're a pretty disgusting, gutless person in my opinion.


youre a bleeding heart liberal in my opinion


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Camshaft213 said:


> youre a bleeding heart liberal in my opinion


Cam, everyone's a bleeding heart liberal in your opinion.

...

Unfortunately, shooting the dumbass who let their aggressive dogs run out of control and out of sight in a public area, won't stop the approaching dogs from reaching you.

Whether you think guns are unnecessarily dangerous, for paranoid delusionals, or, you did hang your survival skills on a gadget, but forgot your ammo in the car, there are a couple things you can still do.

If you're standing there, and you know you're scared, the dog knows it too, and you're probably not going to make your shaky, high-pitched voice sound intimidating.

1. Rocks. As stated, picking up a few rocks typically gets them to halt. Throwing small handfuls of little ones (gravel even) does a good job too. It's an annoyance. No dog wants to advance through repeated bursts of gravel in the face. Once they've halted, you can chase them off with loud noisy yelling, more gravel, and snarling and waving your arms like a deranged chimpanzee. Plus, it's very entertaining for everyone else.

2. Sticks. If you're lucky, and can grab a long stick, you can either give them a couple sharp whips with it to keep them from striking distance, or if it's got branches, confuse them by lunging it at them repeatedly. Most see the multiple points as outnumbering them, just like the lion tamers four-legged stool. This doesn't always work, as some dogs are smarter than others.

3. In case of no detritus. If the dog is clearly going to reach you, and you're fairly certain your bike isn't going to create an impenetrable wall to stand behind, grab it, wind up, and swing it at them. One hit always ends it. They retreat to lick wounds, you find the owners and tell them they're lucky you didn't kill their dog. You may actually seriously injure or kill the dog doing this, but if that was the intent of the dog, well, someone was going to win, and someone was going to lose.


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## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

HB has a point. I agree that if an owner is irresponsible then they don't have any grounds for indignance if their dog gets shot, but it seems pointless to kill a dog when you've got what amounts to a 25+ball and chain right there with you. Seems that with a little creativity you could avoid taking the life of a dog who is, after all, just being a dog -- worst case scenario, you could grab ahold of one tire and spin in a circle, using the bike as a deterent. And why not pepper spray or a stun gun rather than bullets? One hit with any of these things should do the trick. 

And yeah, before it even gets to that point, talk to them in the same tone of voice you'd use when rubbing their belly. I've had plenty of dogs run up to me barking agressively and I ignore that and coo at them and tell them how cute they are and show no fear and the next thing you know their tail is wagging. Might have something to do with being a woman, maybe men get a different reaction. 

Guns are easy, and it's easy to say "There was no other option," but there usually is.


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## jcaino (May 26, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> I'm a dog lover, lived with a dog for most of my 47 years. Anti-social dogs should be shot and killed. Their owners are subjecting the world to dog bites and maulings. Here in the Chicago area Forest Preserves people are raising dogs for fighting. The dogs get free and maim/kill innocent hikers and bikers. Any dog that get aggressive with a hiker or biker can and should be shot. If you don't want your dog shot and killed, keep it on a leash, it is the law. It really is that simple :thumbsup:
> 
> If you've every had a kid mauled by a dog who's owners knew to be anti-social, you'd think more like me....


Yes, it all comes down to the owner's responsibility.

I have a dog. He's been socialized with many people and other dogs to ensure that he does not become aggressive towards people. However, he goes on a leash any time we're out.

Haven't tried a ride with him yet, but he'll be on a leash then too. Unless I'm alone on private property or something.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I used to ride with my brother and he had two large dogs - very friendly to people and never had one issue with any other riders, hikers or anything. That said he kept the dogs outside and they developed into a bit of a pack (even with two dogs). A couple of times we came upon other dogs that were aggressive, it was amazing to see my brother's two dogs go into "pack" mode. One would go in from the front while the other circled wide and went in from the back. While even this never really created an issue - we always got it stopped before it started - but it was interesting to see what dogs can do out of instinct. 

John


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

cannesdo said:


> ...it seems pointless to kill a dog when you've got what amounts to a 25+ball and chain right there with you....


Maybe this loving stuff works with a retriever, but Dobermans, German Shepards, Pit Bulls will maim/kill you. There's plenty of examples in Cook County. You have to naive to think a handful of rocks will stop a truely dangerous dog....


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Maybe this loving stuff works with a retriever, but Dobermans, German Shepards, Pit Bulls will maim/kill you. There's plenty of examples in Cook County. You have to naive to think a handful of rocks will stop a truely dangerous dog....


Since when is throwing rocks in the face and whipping with sticks "loving"?

My mistake. I assumed the follower of this advice would not be a complete freaking moron. Here's the missing disclaimer, since we're in America, and we've got to warn everyone up and down and backward and forward of every dang thing...

1. Coffee is hot. Don't spill it on your lap. It will burn you.
2. Don't walk out in front of moving vehicles. You will get hit, and it will not be fun or enjoyable.
3. If a Doberman, German Shepard, or Pit Bull is actually _attacking_ you, don't waste your time picking up gravel or whittling a finely tapered switch. Proceed directly to option three. Grab your bike, swing it hard, and bring the attacker down.

In case you need further instructions, here's what to do next.

Let the dog retreat, find the owner, and give them what for.

If dog does not retreat, when bike slams down upon dog, throw your weight on top, pinning it down and restraining its movement. If it is not whimpering and squirming by now, you have a very bad and very dangerous dog on your hands. Grab its head with both hands (don't worry about your fingers, you're probably going to get em bit) twisting it as far as you can in a 180 (upside down). It will struggle to align head with body, but with it pinned under you and your bike, you will just have to hold on tightly. Pull back hard (hard) and break its neck. It may require several tries. But be humane. Find the nearest large rock you can find and bring down hard upon its skull to put out of misery once immobilized.

Any dog not trained for fighting will give up looong before you'd ever get that far. And any dog trained for fighting, well, you're doing it a favor.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> Pull back hard (hard) and break its neck. It may require several tries. But be humane. Find the nearest large rock you can find and bring down hard upon its skull to put out of misery once immobilized.


Oh yes that was so much more humane than a 9mm or 2 to the chest cavity. I swear I love that people jump my **** for shooting a dangerous dog while being threatened, then someone posts tips on how to snap a dog's neck and then crush it's skull with a rock!


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## grizzlyplumber (May 15, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> Since when is throwing rocks in the face and whipping with sticks "loving"?
> 
> My mistake. I assumed the follower of this advice would not be a complete freaking moron. Here's the missing disclaimer, since we're in America, and we've got to warn everyone up and down and backward and forward of every dang thing...
> 
> ...


This has to be the funniest and most outrageous post I have ever read. Why not pull out your multi-tool and whittle down a bow and arrows out of a small sapling to shoot the dog with? That would be just as effective and require about the same energy. Those dogs would eat your s**t for lunch long before you could drop your bike on them and break their neck.


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## VailMaintenance (May 14, 2008)

Scary story- All it takes is one bad incident and it stays in your head for a long time- Pyrenese Sheep Dogs are pretty common around my parts once you get off the beaten path- Last year me and a buddy came across one while hunting and that damn thing stalked us all the way back down to our car...terrifying- It kept popping up 25 feet in front of us and then 5 minutes later it was behind us again- I was waiting for the dog to jump out of a tree at some point- Lasted for two hours...felt like I was in the twighlight zone the way this thing moved around us- My buddy bought a gloc the next day- I, however, havent taken to carry guns on rides yet as some of you have...bullets are sooo heavy-


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> Since when is throwing rocks in the face and whipping with sticks "loving"?
> 
> My mistake. I assumed the follower of this advice would not be a complete freaking moron....


Hey, a$$hole, my kid got mauled by a dog. If you had to face your 8 year old kid all ripped up from someone's vicious Akita, you'd be much nicer in this thread :thumbsup: He's the older one, survived by the grace of God (btw, the dog lived 1 block from this pix):


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## cat.chili (Mar 16, 2006)

What about using pepper spray - I used to ride with it, but *thankfully* have never needed to use it. Has anyone had to use it against a dog... and if so, was it effective?


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## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

DrNickels said:


> Oh yes that was so much more humane than a 9mm or 2 to the chest cavity. I swear I love that people jump my **** for shooting a dangerous dog while being threatened, then someone posts tips on how to snap a dog's neck and then crush it's skull with a rock!


Ok, laughing now. Seems sick given the topic but I can't help myself, sorry. I guess it seems to me people would kill less if they had to get a little bruised and build up a good sweat in order to accomplish the task. Call me old-fashioned.

We humans do crazy things when we're swamped with adrenaline. Guns are just so easy. If I had kids, that would be another matter, but if it's just me, I'd prefer to do whatever I can to make sure I don't kill an animal that isn't a killer. I just can't kill every animal that bares its teeth at me.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

cannesdo said:


> ...people would kill less if they had to get a little bruised and build up a good sweat in order to accomplish the task. Call me old-fashioned...I just can't kill every animal that bares its teeth at me.


You might be able to stop a retriever or a basset hound. Rots, Dobermans, German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Akitas will rip you to shreads. If these dogs didn't win vs humans all the time, cops and criminals wouldn't use 'em. When these dogs are running loose in a pack, it's not much different than a load gun sitting out on the trail...if two or more of these dogs decide to attack you, your only chance is a gun or a tree. A handful of rocks, a knife, a big rock...forget it, you're mauled/dead.

Where do you live that you are confronted on a regular basis by "animal(s) that bares its teeth"?


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

Here's the other thread on this similar topic.

It has some decent wisdom on protecting yourself in the backcountry (as a last resort) or even in your own neighborhood from large, dangerous animals..

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=423131&highlight=do+you+carry+a+knife

Listen, I live out in the woods, work with animal control and trap upwards of 10 stray dogs a year (most are dumped out here in the country by irresponsible owners).. I like animals, and the vast majority of them are friendly. But that doesn't mean I'm willing to be the prey or their chew toy of a dangerous or mistreated animal either..

When in dog country on your bike, carry a few 'dog treats/bones' in your pockets. It's just good diplomacy.. And gives you a chance to move in a better direction in the meantime..

**Warning, feeding dogs in this manner may make you dog friends that are likely to follow you around wagging their tails..**

*Never feed or act friendly towards 'wild' animals.. Or you will desensitize them to humans and make them more likely to attack.

And don't harm animals unless it's a last resort. Just because you are scared of dogs, etc.. and tend to get panicky or hysterical in their presence isn't a good reason. And remember, we are far more dangerous to them, than they are to us. That being said, nobody has to be the victim of an dangerous aggressive animal. It just requires a few common sense precautions and the knowledge of certain animal behaviors.. And whatever you do, never run from or turn your back to an aggressive dog.

And if you're really worried about, or live in an area with problem dogs, get one of these. It absolutely works to discourage dogs.. I use a similar device to control barking dogs.. They literally hate the sound (you can't hear it) and will retreat from it and do almost anything to avoid it. It's humane as well..

http://www.ultimatebarkcontrol.com/Dog-Off-Pro-Series.htm

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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Where do you live that you are confronted on a regular basis by "animal(s) that bares its teeth"?


Ok, I wasn't specifically referring to you in my last post, but since you had to go nuts and fly off the handle, I will now.

Answer to this Q, is rural midwest. Rural anywhere. Everyone has dogs, and they are rarely locked up. Many are there to "protect" the family, the house, the hidden marijuana crop in the corn, or whatever. They are territorial and they are aggressive, and when you ride down a country road, every one of them can see you coming.

Sorry to hear your child was attacked by a dog. I was attacked at an early age as well, and it changed me for life. Not sure why you thought I was referring to you specifically about whatever it is that made you lash out in obscenities, or how it has any effect on what I'm talking about, but you appear to be having a different discussion than the rest of us. Any points you're trying to make are getting buried in your deep emotional ties to the subject at hand.

...(end of speaking directly to you)...

A couple of you appear to be under the impression that behavior is 100% by breed, and that is one ridiculous debate I'm not going to get in to, other than to say that you're reaching to apply it like you are.

...In 20+ years of riding, and probably a thousand dog encounters, it's come to swinging my bikes half a dozen times, and have heard of teammates having to do the same only a couple dozen. Only once did a dog not instantly retreat, (and it was not a pit, rottie, mastiff, etc...) and it ended as above. Bloody fingers, a few scrapes and bruises, and one less fighting dog in the world.

As the guy above hypothetically points out, of course there are dogs that aren't going to be stopped by anything, but in reality it's been regardless of breed. You can either try, and make use of the resources at hand, or hey, just stand there, do nothing, and get mauled. It's totally up to you. Given the rate of success I've seen 25lbs of swinging jagged metal have, I don't see why you wouldn't make the effort, but it's your life.

...or you can bring dog treats, a bowie knife, a handlers glove, and a sidearm along on all your rides, just in case you encounter a dog. While you're at it, don't forget your parachute, inflatable raft, 50ft of rope, food for a week, satellite phone, gps, personal locator beacon, and have the chopper on standby, just in case you should become lost or crash in a remote area. When home, don't forget to wear your helmet in the shower, always take a cab to cross the street, wear a foil hat to block electromagnetic radiation, and live in a padded room. Then you'll be safe. Until the Radon gets you.

Also, that's a very good point, Cannesdo.


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

HotBlack said:


> Rural anywhere. Everyone has dogs, and they are rarely locked up. Many are there to "protect" the family, the house, the hidden marijuana crop in the corn, or whatever. They are territorial and they are aggressive, and when you ride down a country road, every one of them can see you coming.


This is a good point..

And the reason why in most locales allowing your dog to roam loose, off of your own property is against the law. I hate to say it, but many Americans are irresponsible dog owners..

And I have little tolerance for dog owners that break the law. And many such owners do not get such dogs the proper veterinary care or shots, nor do they place collars on the dogs themselves to identify them as a pet, rather than as a stray, etc...

The fact is, some of our more moronic citizens see a dog as means of protecting themselves, and their property from strangers. They often encourage the dog to act aggressive around strangers.. And 99.9% of the time it's a child, a biker, or some other innocent or even one of their own family members that gets bitten by such aggressive animals. The amount of ignorance out here when it concerns the private ownership of dogs and other such critters boggles the mind. And I know dog owners, where the dog is obviously smarter than the owner.

If I run into an aggressive dog on public property, and it attacks me or acts aggressive towards me, I will kill it or make it wish it hadn't barked up the wrong tree.

Simple as that. If you can't corral the animal yourself, call the law. You maybe saving somebody elses hide.

If a dog that's contracted rabies because it's dumbass owner didn't bother to take it to the vet to get its shots, so much as scratches you with its mouth, and you don't get a rabies shot.. You have a 99% chance of dying. Once you develop symptoms of rabies there is no cure.

So if you get bit by any animal, and you can't ID whether the animal has had a rabies shot, immediately head to your country health department, doctor, etc.. and tell them as much. They will immediately give you a rabies shot, as a precaution.

When it comes to rabies.., you can't afford to assume. Especially in this age of somewhat lacking governmental enforcement of such laws and the lacking enforcement of such basic, common sense public health regulation.


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## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> Where do you live that you are confronted on a regular basis by "animal(s) that bares its teeth"?


I didn't say I was. And a lot of that, surely is due to the posture I assume when I come across a dog that doesn't know what to make of me and "appears" anti-social" at first. And many of these are the breeds you listed. Honestly, I think anyone who has enough problems with dogs to feel they have to pack heat to protect himself might benefit from a looking at his own anti-social tendancies. I don't think human-dog relationships are all that different from human-human relationships. My guess is that if you're having problems with dogs, you're also having problems with people. There are plenty of anti-social people in the world.....We don't shoot them. We learn how to protect ourselves, practice avoidance where possible and most of us manage to coexist with those individuals pretty well. That's the very thing that makes us different from animals. Well, some of us, anyway.



> While you're at it, don't forget your parachute, inflatable raft, 50ft of rope, food for a week, satellite phone, gps, personal locator beacon, and have the chopper on standby, just in case you should become lost or crash in a remote area. When home, don't forget to wear your helmet in the shower, always take a cab to cross the street, wear a foil hat to block electromagnetic radiation, and live in a padded room. Then you'll be safe. Until the Radon gets you.


Ah but with the satellite phone you're looking at some electromagnetic radiation and dragging all that crap around might eventually affect your posture.

Fear fear fear. If that's your filter, that will be your experience.

Live your freakin' life. It's wonderful.


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## wiretapstudios (Jun 16, 2008)

My girlfriend and I came off a trail on a paved road. It was getting dark, so we opted to go uphill over this paved road that crested the mountain. Lo and behold there is a set of about 8 houses at the top, and every single one had some sort of pit bull combination that saw us from a mile away and wigged out and rushed almost all the way to the bike. I'd never read about this situation before, but just instinctively hopped off and walked with the bike between me and the dog. My girlfriend had zipped past, so each dog was to me by the time I got there. Riding away seemed to excite them, so I just calmly walked with my bike in between for each one. It was like a gauntlet of dogs.

Now...I carry pepper spray and a knife. But as for the hitting the dog with a bike, I would just say to make sure you didn't lift it over your head or up, because then aren't you leaving your body open for attack? Eff that. Maybe some side to side action, but I don't want to miss or miscalculate the dogs speed and then suffer being bit AND having the weight of the bike on top of me as the dog knocked me down, etc.


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## ricks_smbc (Feb 28, 2006)

A water bottle and a quick squirt to the face will usually stop a dog.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

DrNickels said:


> I shot someone's pet, and yes I figured it was someone's pet since german shepherds are not native to south eastern ohio. I did not want to shoot the dog. It was not wearing a collar or any tags of any sort. The owner was nowhere to be found. I was hoping the two warning shots would be enough to back the dog down, or alert the owner to quickly get their dog because someone was in danger. I felt extremely horrible about killing someone's dog, and still feel bad, but I am not going to be a can of Alpo to someone's pet because they are too stupid to know how it will act around other people. I would have rather shot the owner for their stupidity and failure to keep their dog, a member of their family safe.
> I felt extremely threatened, tried all the things I could think of (backing away slowly, talking in a stern voice, firing warning shots even at the dog) and still the dog would not yield. It is like any other situation that is a survival situation; you put me in danger where I feel great bodily harm may come to me whether you be human, dog, bear, coyote, etc. and I will do what is needed to defend myself. I don't want this turning into an F88 discussion about animal rights or right to carry. We've heard it all before and it is a personal decision to carry a weapon and use it if you need to to defend yourself.


F'ing PUNK.

Stupid PUNK at that.

Can't even think at a higher level then a dog.

PUNK.


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## ar1981 (Oct 11, 2006)

cannesdo said:


> I didn't say I was. And a lot of that, surely is due to the posture I assume when I come across a dog that doesn't know what to make of me and "appears" anti-social" at first. And many of these are the breeds you listed. Honestly, I think anyone who has enough problems with dogs to feel they have to pack heat to protect himself might benefit from a looking at his own anti-social tendancies. I don't think human-dog relationships are all that different from human-human relationships. My guess is that if you're having problems with dogs, you're also having problems with people. There are plenty of anti-social people in the world.....We don't shoot them. We learn how to protect ourselves, practice avoidance where possible and most of us manage to coexist with those individuals pretty well. That's the very thing that makes us different from animals. Well, some of us, anyway.


+1 for that.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

cannesdo said:


> .....Honestly, I think anyone who has enough problems with dogs to feel they have to pack heat to protect himself might benefit from a looking at his own anti-social tendancies.  I don't think human-dog relationships are all that different from human-human relationships. My guess is that if you're having problems with dogs, you're also having problems with people....


This is too funny. "If a dog barks at you, you really need to take a close look at yourself. No, I mean a really close look. Have you been looking within at why dogs bark at you?" Let me guess, you're from California


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> Honestly, I think anyone who has enough problems with dogs to feel they have to pack heat to protect himself might benefit from a looking at his own anti-social tendancies.


Great blanket statement. I think you'd be amazed some of the people who actually have a concealed carry permit. Many of the people I know who have them are medical doctors who carry to protect themselves and their families. Hardly the type of people you would label as anti-social, but I guess sweeping generalities are your ballgame. I personally carry in the woods because I've had some unfortunate run ins with dogs that are used to protect pot fields in southeast Ohio and met some very unkind people in the back woods who are doing illegal things such as harvesting marijuana, making crystal meth, etc. I would rather not take chances with my own life. Live by the boy scout motto as an eagle scout; "Be prepared".



> There are plenty of anti-social people in the world.....We don't shoot them. We learn how to protect ourselves, practice avoidance where possible and most of us manage to coexist with those individuals pretty well. That's the very thing that makes us different from animals.


And how do you protect yourself from these anti-social people? While I know many people are in the armed forces and many know some form of martial arts, I will still stick to a tool for my own protection against a stranger who threatens me.



> That's the very thing that makes us different from animals.


Yes we are different from animals, sometimes, and unfortunately for the worst. Animals usually don't practice deceit, dishonesty, or smile in your face and then beat you over the head with a log when you turn your back. Humans have a bit darker side unfortunately, and God I hope most people never see it, me included! Being on guard and not allowing yourself to become a victim is not being anti-social or having a problem with people, it's being smart and protecting yourself. When you leave your home you are in a sense in the wild and you never know what you will meet in the outdoors. It's very sad, but very true. So in the end you can ***** and moan and call me psycho and anti-social for carrying a firearm and using it when a dog was going to maul me, even after giving the dog plenty of warning and display of threat to try and make it back down, but it is still my right and you still have the right to not carry a gun and try to back a dangerous dog, bear, human, squirrel, or small child off anyway you see fit, but I will be there possibly on the trail to shoot the dog when it's eating your face off. You can then just say thank you (if the dog hasn't ripped all the muscles required for using your mouth off by this point at least) and we will get you some first aid and a ride to the emergency room.

As for pursuiter, sorry to hear your boy was mauled by a dog. I had the unfortunate experience of being tackled by a rott when I was 10 and still have the scars on my back and arms, fingers from the dog. Thank God the owner got the dog off me in time. Nice bike too by the way, that has some crazy colors!

GT peace?

IntheBush, I might try and get one of those devices you posted. I'd be willing to try it out. I currently carry some anti-dog spray that the LBS has for stopping attacking dogs and carry it on the local bike path because it's a non-carry zone because it intersects University property. Always within the law.


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## Mrledzeppelin (Apr 4, 2008)

in all this talk about defending yourself against a dog attack, I did over look those dog whistle. I know they work well, and should be enough to get you out of a situation. Do they work with other wild animals you may encounter?

Are we done beating the dead horse of shooting a dog? We all know its the owners fault anyways. Damn Hippies!


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## garjagan (Feb 9, 2006)

HotBlack said:


> Since when is throwing rocks in the face and whipping with sticks "loving"?
> 
> My mistake. I assumed the follower of this advice would not be a complete freaking moron. Here's the missing disclaimer, since we're in America, and we've got to warn everyone up and down and backward and forward of every dang thing...
> 
> ...


Nice! And I totally agree. Dogs are domestic pets, it you want to treat an animal like a human, you should make sure it acts that way. If a big dangerous dog attacks you and you think it can do you serious harm, you have every right to try and kill/immobilize it.

Drag that muthaf**ka through the woods!


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

GRGO said:


> ...Can't even think at a higher level then a dog...


I want to see you "think at a higher level (than) a dog..." as your throat is being used as a chew toy. Hey, while you're at it, show him your thumbs, dogs respect you for that


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## office (Aug 8, 2007)

A couple years ago (I was probably 14 or 15) I was walking my dog (25 lb mutt) in the neighborhood when I was attacked by neighbors (adjascent street) pit bulls that had escaped from their backyard. I was very lucky that someone had seen the dogs an hour ago and had called animal control as a worker was on the street when I was attacked. 

The dogs ended up taking my dog down and almost killing it (I pulled my dog out from under the dogs) and ****ing ran like hell before the guy scared them off with a large pole or something. Ended up taking them to "Dog court" (yes there is such a thing) and they had to put up a big, expensive fense enclosure in order to keep their dogs in. Basically if their dogs are ever found out again they are pretty much put down by the city.

It was probably the scariest thing I have ever experienced. If animal control hadn't been on my street I could have definately been killed/severly injured. Dogs totally freak out when they see another dog and its pretty much useless to try and calm them down/scare them or whatever.


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## The_rydster (Sep 27, 2006)

office said:


> A couple years ago (I was probably 14 or 15) I was walking my dog (25 lb mutt) in the neighborhood when I was attacked by neighbors (adjascent street) pit bulls that had escaped from their backyard. I was very lucky that someone had seen the dogs an hour ago and had called animal control as a worker was on the street when I was attacked.
> 
> The dogs ended up taking my dog down and almost killing it (I pulled my dog out from under the dogs) and ****ing ran like hell before the guy scared them off with a large pole or something. Ended up taking them to "Dog court" (yes there is such a thing) and they had to put up a big, expensive fense enclosure in order to keep their dogs in. Basically if their dogs are ever found out again they are pretty much put down by the city.
> 
> It was probably the scariest thing I have ever experienced. If animal control hadn't been on my street I could have definately been killed/severly injured. Dogs totally freak out when they see another dog and its pretty much useless to try and calm them down/scare them or whatever.


Fcuk that, you should have gone back at night and given them both barrels or at the very least some poisoned meat.


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## The_rydster (Sep 27, 2006)

ricks_smbc said:


> A water bottle and a quick squirt to the face will usually stop a dog.


Filled with gasoline maybe...then toss a light on them.


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## cannesdo (Feb 3, 2007)

DrNickels said:


> I personally carry in the woods because I've had some unfortunate run ins with dogs that are used to protect pot fields in southeast Ohio and met some very unkind people in the back woods who are doing illegal things such as harvesting marijuana, making crystal meth, etc...





> And how do you protect yourself from these anti-social people?


Umm...for starters I don't go wandering around in the back woods when I know people in there are doing illegal things such as harvesting marijuana, making crystal meth, etc...



> I would rather not take chances with my own life. Live by the boy scout motto as an eagle scout; "Be prepared".


And that means...what? Make sure you've got plenty of Raid on hand before poking a hornet's nest with a sharp stick?

It's been my experience that people who find trouble (not just occasionally, but often) are looking for it. You just proved my point. Where we live, who we engage, where we go and when, the culture in which we immerse ourselves -- those are choices. They inform our filter, which in turn plays a big part in what kind of experiences we have. They don't happen to us. We choose them.

The mind is a powerful tool -- in many circumstances, it's the best weapon you have, it's unfortunate more people in this country aren't packin' that.


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

GRGO said:


> F'ing PUNK.
> 
> Stupid PUNK at that.
> 
> ...


If you don't obey the law by keeping your animal under control at all times, then who's the stupid punk failing to think at a higher level? 

You got to be smarter than your dog, bro..


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## Mr. Blonde (May 18, 2008)

Everyone is always scared of Dobermans because of an unjustified reputation. Any dog person will tell you that they are actually medium intensity dogs. They won't attack unless they feel they are in danger. It would have been better for you to take a submissive stance. You get down low and put a hand out with palm up and talk gently to it.


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> It's been my experience that people who find trouble (not just occasionally, but often) are looking for it.


So riding a state park hiking trail is now looking for trouble? Wow guess I will stay in my house and just watch TV like a good little citizen and let the bad people do as they please. I don't think so. F^$# that! I'll go enjoy my rights as a law-abiding citizen and if anyone tries to harm me I will defend myself to the best of my ability.


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

Mr. Blonde said:


> Everyone is always scared of Dobermans because of an unjustified reputation. Any dog person will tell you that they are actually medium intensity dogs. They won't attack unless they feel they are in danger. It would have been better for you to take a submissive stance. You get down low and put a hand out with palm up and talk gently to it.


Dobermans are great dogs.. Of course, like any breed unless they're in the wrong hands..

I disagree somewhat with your last statement.

Taking a submissive stance with an unknown, or an aggressive dog is one of the best ways to get bit.

Now if it's a friendly dog, or somebodies pet it maybe different. But you will be able to determine this immediately. If the dog is exhibiting submissive characterics, then it's probably a good bet that it's friendly.

Here are some obvious and not so obvious body language signals for friendly dogs (seriously)..

* Wagging tail.

* What appears to be a smile on the dogs face. Like he's looking at a friend.

* Wont face you.

* Lowers his head.

* Looks playful.

That being said, even friendly dogs will bite almost any stranger if afraid. And aggressive dogs will not normally attack a strong opponent. Never turn your back or run from a dog, or you're almost guaranteed to get bit.

One trick that works with aggressive dogs, is to pick up an object and throw it (not at the dog). Say 'go get it boy'... And use standard commands in a strong voice.. 'Sit', 'Stay', 'lie down', 'good boy', etc.. I had a bull mastiff run after me out of a ladies yard a week or so ago, came all the way across a field with her in tow (she was getting left in the dust). I stopped, got off the bike, faced the dog, and it stopped in it's tracks about 50 feet away. I said 'Sit'. And that's exactly what it did until it's idiot owner got there and dragged it back towards the house.

This is got to be the funniest video of an aggressive dog, and an idiot owner I've ever seen... Get ready to laugh hard.. :thumbsup:






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## ISN (Feb 19, 2007)

i am the kind of guy that goes out of his way to avoid running over ant hills and bugs. yes i am serious. i respect all life. however, if i were confronted w/a large threatening dog that i felt was about to attack me, i would not twirl my GD bike around me, or sacrifice my fingers; if i had a gun, i would shoot it dead, period.


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

This is good advice, and worth a watch..


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## cat.chili (Mar 16, 2006)

DrNickels said:


> So riding a state park hiking trail is now looking for trouble? Wow guess I will stay in my house and just watch TV like a good little citizen and let the bad people do as they please. I don't think so. F^$# that! I'll go enjoy my rights as a law-abiding citizen and if anyone tries to harm me I will defend myself to the best of my ability.


^^ THIS


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

ISN said:


> , if i were confronted w/a large threatening dog that i felt was about to attack me, i would not twirl my GD bike around me, or sacrifice my fingers; if i had a gun, i would shoot it dead, period.


And if you didn't (have a firearm, accessible, loaded, drawn, safety off, ready to fire at a moments notice, and aim accurately under duress, while riding)? Then what would ya do... pray? Climb up a corn stalk?

May wanna practice that... "twirling" after all. Especially if you guys are thinking of some kind of ballerina, ice skater, or discus throwing move, or over the head mousetrap thing. It's actually a bit tricky to swing your bike, & at a moving, anticipating target no less. Need to visualize. Dog coming very fast. My what big teeth you have. He's going to slow down when he gets closer to hone his angle, unless you leave him a direct opening. You should already be dismounted on the opposite side of the bike anyway, now step to one side, pickup, give him is opening, and about a 90-180 degree swing. Big sweeping motion. Get him from the front and side. Or stand there and wish you hadn't brought the wrong ammo, or could get the zipper open on your saddlebag faster...

---

Ok, judging by a few PM's, I see I need to clarify something. Yes, I know I advocated killing someone's mean, lovable, snarling, cuddly pooch in a "most barbaric" way, but outside this scenario, I otherwise don't take kindly to animal cruelty whatsoever. I'll leave it at that.


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## NoobHill (Jan 8, 2008)

I don't know how you guys are criticizing DrNickels for shooting a german shepherd. There is a reason why they are one of the most commonly used police dogs. They are good at incapacitating people.

I'm not going to get mauled by someones stupid freaking dog because i'm wasting my time trying to get it to wag its tail and be a "good dog". Im going to be proactive and make the mf'er wished it never ruined my day on the trail. Its not my responsibility to go out of my way to be nice to someones aggressive dog. It is their responsibility to keep their dog on a leash or at least ensure that its not aggressive to strangers.

The other day I was riding down the road and some mutt pops out of the woods from nowhere running up trying to bite me. I unclipped my foot and tried to kick it in the face and it backed off ... problem solved. Luckily it was only a smaller dog. If it was a german shepherd I probably would have wrecked and gotten mauled or something. f that.


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## ISN (Feb 19, 2007)

HotBlack said:


> And if you didn't (have a firearm, accessible, loaded, drawn, safety off, ready to fire at a moments notice, and aim accurately under duress, while riding)? Then what would ya do... pray?


twirl my GD bike around and sacrifice my fingers. :lol:

i'll do whatever i have to do. but if i have a gun, i am using it.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

NoobHill said:


> I unclipped my foot and tried to kick it...


Oh man, that's hard. I always just about eat sh*t, either by my balance lurching off the bike sideways & not being able to counterbalance, or from winding up with a foot in the front wheel...

That reminds me...

I was stoker on a nice new Santana Cilantro mountain tandem, on the way to the trailhead, and a neighbors little yipey thing came chasing us down in the road, as usual. El capitan didn't realize that the little bastard had actually caught up to us, and was nipping at my ankles as they went around. This was in the days of toe clips, which you had to reach down to unstrap in order to get your foot out. Anyway, the little buggers head got under my pedal as it was coming down, and of course, with a captain still pedaling (both your cranks are synchronized via timing chain) there's no coasting ...+ no unclipping + no where else to shift your weight to... it was with the slightest little hop that the rear of the bike lifted up off the road and came back down again, all of my weight (about 225 at the time) entirely supported for an awful instant by the bottom of my jagged platform pedal which had pinned the poor little mutts head to the road. He spun off wildly in little circles for a second, then bolted for home. I couldn't believe he'd just gotten his stupid head ran over, but figured it served him well. He never did come out to chase bikes again.

I'm pretty sure that was the craziest thing I've ever run over.


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## pt3r (Mar 8, 2008)

Last night, I walked my dog at one of our local trails. As I was on the backside of the trail high above the river, I crested a little rise to find 2 large roadies standing in the trail.

They were as startled as I was and immediately took a very aggressive posture with shaven legs, silly sunglasses and extra tight bibs and coming towards me. 
I immediately put the dog between me and them and took a very authoritative tone to try to get get them to back off. They would back off a bit and then get braver again and roll back towards me and the dog swinging their carbon bikes around by the front wheel until I yelled at them pretending to be a WADA official. Although it was probably just a few minutes, but the stalemate seemed to last forever.

They finally backed off one time enough that me and the dog ran off and hauled ass the other way and they immediately took up the chase. One of them gave up pretty quickly, but after a couple of hundred yards it became apparent that the second one was going to catch me. I stopped and became very aggressive and threw it some gatorade and a powerbar. It sensed it no longer had numbers on me, backed off and let me go. We walked back the other way and jumped on the road as soon as possible.

We did not see them again on the walk. I saw a parks person and told her about it and she said that a couple of houses across from the park house has a bunch of roadies that get loose and get into the park, but they have never raced anyone. It did not make me feel any better. My adrenaline is rushing just typing this. Nothing that I would want to have happen again.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

pt3r said:


> ...Nothing that I would want to have happen again.


Should have shot 'em. No jury would convict you for shooting spandex incased 50 year old fat guy showing off his package. More likely you would be a local hero, never allowed to buy a drink at the local watering hole


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## Bikinfoolferlife (Feb 3, 2004)

I've had some close encounters with bears on the trail. One time it was a cub and mom charging down the hillside heading right for a point that was a switchback corner on the trail for me, and while they weren't on the trail, it was the same point in their path and when I saw the cub he was only about 10 yards from me, mom was another 10 yards back. Not a big distance for a bear on the run. I made it to the corner first and never looked back, figured I just didn't really have the time to see how close that was. Nice adrenalin rush, though.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> I want to see you "think at a higher level (than) a dog..." as your throat is being used as a chew toy. Hey, while you're at it, show him your thumbs, dogs respect you for that


I have had many, many encounters with "viscous" dogs.

NEVER have I had to do anything more then stay calm but act in a dominant fashion.

Either the dog(s) will end up smelling me while I scratch its head or it will slink off.

If you come up my driveway you will likely be met by 200 lbs of German Shepherd running up to greet you. They will be barking and I am told it is VERY intimidating by visitors.

What happens next is up to you. If you stay calm and act RATIONALLY they will be just fine and your only danger is being licked to death.

If you freak out and pull your weapon assuming a defensive posture and attitude the dogs will respond accordingly out of INSTINCT. In the case of my dogs they will stop in front of you and take the same DEFENSIVE attitude and posture. You would still be in no danger from them unless you tried to move on one of them or on me or my family.

That's what I mean by thinking on a higher level then a dog.

I'd bet my last dollar that if the punk who shot the dog hadn't immediately overreacted because a big scary dog barked at him he wouldn't have had to go Rambo on him. I must have missed the part where the dog was using his throat as a chew toy. "Warning shots" he says. When I am practicing out back, my dogs coming running to see what the noise is and they are fascinated by the dirt kicked up by the bullets and by the casings flying through the air as they are ejected. Anyone smarter then a dog would know that dogs do not know what guns are and would not understand what a "warning shot" was about.

You just have to be smarter then the dog.

I'm am very pro "right to bear arms" but this punk is a shining example of why some should maybe not have that right.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> This is too funny. "If a dog barks at you, you really need to take a close look at yourself. No, I mean a really close look. Have you been looking within at why dogs bark at you?" Let me guess, you're from California


The man is absolutely right.

Dogs are instinctive and react to the situation as it presents itself. If you are always being hassled by dogs then you need to take a look at how you are presenting the situation.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

GRGO said:


> If you come up my driveway you will likely be met by 200 lbs of German Shepherd running up to greet you. They will be barking and I am told it is VERY intimidating by visitors.
> 
> What happens next is up to you. If you stay calm and act RATIONALLY....


By requiring anyone that comes to visit you become experts at handling your dogs, you are endangering the very dogs you claim to love. If a process server or Police Officer encounters your dogs acting as you describe, your dogs will be shot and killed. And it will be all your fault. You're not a very good dog owner :nono:


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## RazorCityDen (Jun 18, 2008)

rkj__ said:


> You shot somebody's pet, and you feel good about it?


Howdy folks my first post here, I'm getting back into mountain biking after a break and have found the forum to be a great help 

This week end my girlfriend and I were biking the Mickleson Trail in the SD Blackhills when we passed the Rochard Bike Shuttle bench and sign.

We stopped to check our map and two very large dogs come bolting from their yard. So far no big deal, it ain't our first rodeo. My girlfriend, a former delivery driver and no amature when it comes to rowdy rural watch dogs, circles up close to me and trys to talk to them in a calm quiet manner while we get our packs back on and ready to go.

The dogs didn't break stride, ears and head down growling and barking, when two more dogs start running from the house with the same demeaner. Now we shout at them to go home to no avail.

Now there's four dogs circling around us running in for an occational snap and getting braver and more aggressive as they continue to circle in closer and closer. This isn't a stand at the edge of their property barking sort of thing.

We decide to just do the ignore them and leave routine. My girlfrind starts off and I start to follow, all four dogs come in on me from every direction when I turn my back to ride away.

I have lived in rural WY all my life and we all have our watchdogs and I know when I'm about to get nipped, it's all in good fun when your in thier 'space' and the dog is just doing it's job.

It was way beyond that I was getting ready to get mauled in a very efficient manner by four 80lbs plus dogs that weren't on thier property and had absolutly no fear.

I drew my legaly carried Glock from it's fanny pack and put one round right at the feet of the closest dog, that did the trick and they all bolted.

Over the course of the day we had seen several families with small kids in trailers and on bikes and I just can't imagine what a mess that would have been to have those dogs running into the mist of them like they did to us.

I probably should have shot all four dogs and hung them on their fence with a note, but I tend to error to the side of caution trying to be a nice guy and all.

To answer the original question.

I would have felt just fine about shooting them all and if I ever see them out on the trail again I will :thumbsup:

Cheers


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

Every time I go night riding. In the open I'm fine but once I get near a creek with trees I get all nervous. If the trees over-hang the trail I get completely freaked out. I think a saber tooth tiger or chupecabra is going to dash out and kill me. Yes, I know, the logical side of my brain says that's just dumb, but I'm still scared and I can't fix it. I still ride at night though.

I ride with my buddy and some times we get separated and that really doesn't help. However, it's my goal to some day go night riding alone just to really conquer this dumb fear.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> By requiring anyone that comes to visit you become experts at handling your dogs, you are endangering the very dogs you claim to love. If a process server or Police Officer encounters your dogs acting as you describe, your dogs will be shot and killed. And it will be all your fault. You're not a very good dog owner :nono:


LOL

Nobody has to be an "expert". They just have to be smarter then the dog. lol

Anyone who puts themselves in a situation without acquiring at least the basic knowledge required to handle that situation is an idiot.

Dogs exist. They get loose and are unfortunately allowed by some to wander free.

If you go outside the house you WILL encounter dogs. Not having at least a basic understanding of canine behavior is not very smart to put it nicely.

It's not that hard and fifteen minutes on the internet will teach you all you need to know.

You just have to be smarter then the dog.

LOL


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

GRGO said:


> LOL
> 
> Nobody has to be an "expert"...Anyone who puts themselves in a situation without acquiring at least the basic knowledge required to handle that situation is an idiot...It's not that hard and fifteen minutes on the internet will teach you all you need to know...


You keep talking to me as if I don't know how to approach your dogs. What you really need to understand is that police shoot and kill bad dogs every day. You expect that people should go on the net a become a dog expert just to walk in front of your house. Most folks couldn't care less about your dogs and would be happier if they were shot and killed. You are the idiot, and it will cost your dog's lives someday. Too bad they were adopted by a stooge like you


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## treestan (Jan 10, 2008)

If you find yourself trying to lay down the rubber to get away from a dog, remember your best weapon: Your water bottle. A quick spray to the face will stun them enough to get you clear.


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

Here's how I see it. If Someone enters my house invited then it's 100% my responsibility to make sure my dog is safe. If they are uninvited then it's their's. No, police and other social services killing your dog on your property without cause is not legal.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> You keep talking to me as if I don't know how to approach your dogs. What you really need to understand is that police shoot and kill bad dogs every day. You expect that people should go on the net a become a dog expert just to walk in front of your house. Most folks couldn't care less about your dogs and would be happier if they were shot and killed. You are the idiot, and it will cost your dog's lives someday. Too bad they were adopted by a stooge like you


You keep talking to me like you know my exact situation and how I raise/treat my dogs.

Listen Curley,

I live on a 17 acre piece with a driveway a half mile long. If anyone gets close enough for my dogs to even notice them they are well within the boundaries of my property.

You seem to have some serious comprehension issues. The entire point of my post was to say that just because a large dog aproaches you barking it doesn't mean that the dog is agressive and a threat. How you respond can turn a curious and friendly dog into a defensive dog.

Get it now? You don't have to be an "expert". An easily obtained, fundamental education on the nature of things one might encounter while out and about is somehow a bad thing in your world?

Oh by the way, last summer when a state police trooper came up the drive while investigating a burglary at a neighbor's the dogs reacted to him just like I described. Instead of pulling out his weapon and shooting these killer dogs he crouched down to their level and opened his arms and got some sloppy kisses for his effort.

About two weeks ago I had the dogs out on my boat. I was aproached by the state police for a routine safety check. When it was clear that he was coming at us both dogs were up on the rail barking like crazy. Didn't even faze the trooper. He pulled right up and wasn't even reaching for his weapon.

They must have spent the fifteen minutes on the internet.

LOL


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

GRGO said:


> You keep talking to me like you know my exact situation and how I raise/treat my dogs...Listen Curley,...


When your dogs take a cap, you'll have no one to blame but yourself...so sad for your dogs, some folks have to learn the hard way. Good luck....


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> ...No, police and other social services killing your dog on your property without cause is not legal.


When the cops, the DA and the Judge are all in sync, it's legal. They just get a few dog-hating neigbors to tell the judge/DA how your dogs are very anti-social. The shooting will be found to be justified. Cops kill people all the time under questionable circumstances and are found innocent. You think the courts care that your vicious dog was shot and killed by the police? More likely the cop will be commended...and your neighbors will rejoice in the death of your dog. Better to socialize your dog so it doesn't get shot, that is, if you're a dog lover :thumbsup:


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> When your dogs take a cap, you'll have no one to blame but yourself...so sad for your dogs, some folks have to learn the hard way. Good luck....


I see.

More interested in "winning" an internet p'ing match then you are about considering the points being made.

Have fun with that.

Looks like you could have used some more socialization yourself.

;-)


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

GRGO said:


> I see.
> 
> More interested in "winning" an internet p'ing match then you are about considering the points being made....


Show me how you'll stop a police dog attacking you with your 15 minute internet research, post it a video on youtube, then you will have answered my points. Too bad for your dogs, maybe you can give them away to a responsible dog lover before they are shot and killed....


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## PaMtnBkr (Feb 28, 2005)

*Nope, still not it.*



Cobretti said:


> I think I've got it-
> 
> Step 1- Consume cap.
> 
> ...


Nope, still not it, he forgot an "r" he meant "Pooped a crap" At least that would be my take on it. Of course I still think that Jesus actually said "Blessed are the cheese makers"


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Show me how you'll stop a police dog attacking you with your 15 minute internet research, post it a video on youtube, then you will have answered my points. Too bad for your dogs, maybe you can give them away to a responsible dog lover before they are shot and killed....


Dude,

Forgive me for missing the part of this thread that indicated we were discussing "police dogs".

Do you not think that there is a difference between a trained police/attack dog which has been commanded to attack and a PET dog which is following it's natural instincts?

Really?

Thanks for your "concern" for my dogs however fake it really is. No worries though. They are very good dogs who's only real fault is that they might be to friendly for their own good.

They are always under my or my wife's watch or confined to their large run. Around here most folks aren't scared by myths and perceptions and would not likely shoot someone's dog just because it was big and one of "those" breeds.

I sure wouldn't like to live in your neck of the woods where baseless paranoia seems to rule the day.

By the way. If I found myself being "attacked" by a police dog I would take a completely submissive position and beg the cop to call off his damn dog because I understand the difference between trained attack dogs and untrained pets.

You know what? I figured that one out on my own. Didn't even need the internet!

LOL


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> When the cops, the DA and the Judge are all in sync, it's legal. They just get a few dog-hating neigbors to tell the judge/DA how your dogs are very anti-social. The shooting will be found to be justified. Cops kill people all the time under questionable circumstances and are found innocent. You think the courts care that your vicious dog was shot and killed by the police? More likely the cop will be commended...and your neighbors will rejoice in the death of your dog. Better to socialize your dog so it doesn't get shot, that is, if you're a dog lover :thumbsup:


Sounds like a crooked little backwoods town. You might have bigger problems to worry about.


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## atomiclotusbox (Feb 2, 2004)

i've been chased by dogs several times on my bike

i think it's the shape of the bike and it's speed that causes the reaction in the dog

i always jump off the bike, come to a stop keeping the bike between us

i talk to the dog in a low voice and tell him everything is ok

it can take a LONG time but eventually the dogs always get bored and walks away stiff legged

i've always wondered how effective pulling my seat and seatpost out of the frame and using it as a club would be


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## gabrielle (Jan 2, 2005)

*my scariest moment...*

I was riding 8-mile up on Mt Hood and what I thought was a big red Chow came barreling down the trail toward me. I put on the brakes, muttered something about [email protected]*($# irresponsible dog owners under my breath and was thinking "Dang, that is a _really_ big dog" as the "Chow" came to a skidding halt and we stared at each other for a moment...and I realized it was a *bear*. :eekster:

I think I squeaked out a "hey bear..." and he ran up the hill into the woods. I beat my best time on that trail by about 10 minutes that day.


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

gabrielle said:


> ...and I realized it was a *bear*. :eekster:


hahaha. I bet it was scarry at the time but that's actually pretty funny.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

GRGO said:


> ...Do you not think that there is a difference between a trained police/attack dog which has been commanded to attack and a PET dog which is following it's natural instincts? ...


Shows how little you know, you don't train a police dog to attack, you train it to stop. The difference between a Police German Shepard and a house pet German Shepard is that the police dog is trained to stop attacking. Attacking is instinctive to certain breeds, some herd, some retrevier, and some attack. That's why cops shoot German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Rots, Dobies. They don't shoot non-attack dogs, why? Because they have more than your 15 minute home dog lover course.

You couldn't stop a dog that has been breed to attack with your hands anymore than you could stop a bullet with your hands. It takes a gun.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> Sounds like a crooked little backwoods town. You might have bigger problems to worry about.


Crooked, yes, little and backwoods, you decide. I live in the Chicago subarbs. If you think it's different in San Jose or LA, you're kidding yourself.


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## Mrledzeppelin (Apr 4, 2008)

pt3r said:


> Last night, I walked my dog at one of our local trails. As I was on the backside of the trail high above the river, I crested a little rise to find 2 large roadies standing in the trail.
> 
> They were as startled as I was and immediately took a very aggressive posture with shaven legs, silly sunglasses and extra tight bibs and coming towards me.
> I immediately put the dog between me and them and took a very authoritative tone to try to get get them to back off. They would back off a bit and then get braver again and roll back towards me and the dog swinging their carbon bikes around by the front wheel until I yelled at them pretending to be a WADA official. Although it was probably just a few minutes, but the stalemate seemed to last forever.
> ...


That is seriously the funniest thing I've read/heard today... er I mean, wow man I'm glad you made it out alive. Those roadies have been know to kill in my area when in large packs. Remember to have your roadie spayed or neutered to control population :thumbsup:


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Crooked, yes, little and backwoods, you decide. I live in the Chicago subarbs. If you think it's different in San Jose or LA, you're kidding yourself.


Not to put words in your mouth but it's seems your feelings have little if anything to do with dogs. You're not saying "cops can get away with killing my dog", but what you're saying is, "I have no faith ins the justice system at all, and it doesn't work at all" since it can be applied to anything.

Is there corruption and un-fairness at times? Yes. Is it the general rule? No.


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

GRGO said:


> The man is absolutely right.
> 
> Dogs are instinctive and react to the situation as it presents itself. If you are always being hassled by dogs then you need to take a look at how you are presenting the situation.


Yes..., and riding by on a mountain bike often illicits a predatory response from Dogs, bears, and other carnivors..

Like we've said countless times throughout this thread, assuming that you wont be a victim of an animal attack isn't the best strategy. And plenty of dog owners are morons.

Neither is shooting first, asking questions later everytime you see a dog.

I hope we can continue to seperate common sense from either extreme.


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## IntheBush (May 31, 2008)

gabrielle said:


> I was riding 8-mile up on Mt Hood and what I thought was a big red Chow came barreling down the trail toward me. I put on the brakes, muttered something about [email protected]*($# irresponsible dog owners under my breath and was thinking "Dang, that is a _really_ big dog" as the "Chow" came to a skidding halt and we stared at each other for a moment...and I realized it was a *bear*. :eekster:
> 
> I think I squeaked out a "hey bear..." and he ran up the hill into the woods. I beat my best time on that trail by about 10 minutes that day.


Damn, that's FU..:eekster:

I mean I'm 'king of the jungle' and everything..

But seriously, I don't relish the idea of having an MMA match out in the woods someplace with a bear..


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> ...You're not saying "cops can get away with killing my dog", but what you're saying is, "I have no faith ins the justice system at all, and it doesn't work at all" since it can be applied to anything.....


Back to my feelings, you guys are so nice to be worried about my feelings  ....

No, I said when his dog is shot by the cops there wouldn't be any justice for the dog. Cop and judges work together every day in every city. For smaller cases like killing a 100lb dog, it's not so simple. The cop tells his side, the owner tells his side, in a cop-said, citizen-said case the judge always goes for the cop. It's consider a legal fact that cops are trained observers, their testimony trumps the citizen's in the dispute, esp since the dog owner has a reason to lie. If there's any doubt, the DA will round up some neighbors that hate dogs, end of case. The DA isn't going to screw a cop on a dog shooting, he'll be fired by his boss. You're left trying to sue the city for loss of property (the cost of the dog as a puppy), in front of a judge who's friends with the city lawyer (maybe they went to the same law school or same frat). Isn't it simplier just to fence your dog in and keep it on a leash?

Cops and judges are are the same side of the law, esp in local courts, that's true in NYC, Chicago, Indy, KC, Phoenix, Denver, LA, Portland...not just little backwater towns. If you have any doubt, go watch people try and beat a traffic ticket in court, see how many win


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Back to my feelings, you guys are so nice to be worried about my feelings  ....
> 
> No, I said when his dog is shot by the cops there wouldn't be any justice for the dog. Cop and judges work together every day in every city. For smaller cases like killing a 100lb dog, it's not so simple. The cop tells his side, the owner tells his side, in a cop-said, citizen-said case the judge always goes for the cop. It's consider a legal fact that cops are trained observers, their testimony trumps the citizen's in the dispute, esp since the dog owner has a reason to lie. If there's any doubt, the DA will round up some neighbors that hate dogs, end of case. The DA isn't going to screw a cop on a dog shooting, he'll be fired by his boss. You're left trying to sue the city for loss of property (the cost of the dog as a puppy), in front of a judge who's friends with the city lawyer (maybe they went to the same law school or same frat). Isn't it simplier just to fence your dog in and keep it on a leash?
> 
> Cops and judges are are the same side of the law, esp in local courts, that's true in NYC, Chicago, Indy, KC, Phoenix, Denver, LA, Portland...not just little backwater towns. If you have any doubt, go watch people try and beat a traffic ticket in court, see how many win


Actually I just didn't want it to turn into an e-fight, but this time I'll just say you're logic is faulty. You actually mean "yes" because you agreed with my observation of you.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> ...You actually mean "yes" because you agreed with my observation of you.


LOL, what was the question? I love all the free analysis here, it's like a busness trip to Silicon Valley without the 4.5 hr flight 

Cops get away with killing people and dogs all the time, I never said who was innocent or guility, I just said cops will typically be found innocent in these type of circumstances. If you think the courts have the time or concern to follow up on a dog shooting, you're wrong. The so called dog lover's dogs would be much better served by fencing and leasing the dogs they claim to love. Otherwise, they might find out how right I am. Ask the bride to be who's groom was shot over 50x in NYC the night before the wedding....

I am a realist. Does this mean I'm suffering from excessive worry, my feelings are not in-line with my Zodiac, I'll leave that to the you left coasters to decide :thumbsup:


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> LOL, what was the question? I love all the free analysis here, it's like a busness trip to Silicon Valley without the 4.5 hr flight
> 
> Cops get away with killing people and dogs all the time, I never said who was innocent or guility, I just said cops will typically be found innocent in these type of circumstances. If you think the courts have the time or concern to follow up on a dog shooting, you're wrong. The so called dog lover's dogs would be much better served by fencing and leasing the dogs they claim to love. Otherwise, they might find out how right I am. Ask the bride to be who's groom was shot over 50x in NYC the night before the wedding....
> 
> I am a realist. Does this mean I'm suffering from excessive worry, my feelings are not in-line with my Zodiac, I'll leave that to the you left coasters to decide :thumbsup:


It's just because you keep talking about cops and judges in general terms, but say you're talking about dogs specifically... which you're not. You keep putting "dogs" into your rants but you're clearly talking about corrupt police and judicial systems (groom that was shot). And it's not a personality analysis, but of what you're writing.

Oh and what difference does it make if it was 1 time or 50 times if he's dead? Just tell us you hate cops. It's really ok if you do. I don't hate them but I'm not a big fan either.

I just looked at your profile. If you started riding in 75 then you're at least as old as me. I would have guessed you were still in your teens. I'm a little shocked now. Let me guess, just for kicks, you're a stoner that forgot top stop smoking weed about 10 years ago? hahaha. just kidding, bro.


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## Henrythewound (Jul 1, 2007)

Pursuiter, please stop, for the love of god, stooooop


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> ...Just tell us you hate cops. It's really ok if you do. I don't hate them but I'm not a big fan either....


Now I'm a cop hater and a stoner? OK, I quit


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## DrNickels (Jan 7, 2008)

> Oh and what difference does it make if it was 1 time or 50 times if he's dead?


I think there is a huge difference. 1 shot = accidental shooting due to perceiving a threat that wasn't there

50 shots = trigger happy cops who saw a person of another color in a night club and gunned him down

That's just a ludicrous statement! What's the difference? Are you f#$%^ kidding me?

As for pursuiter, I think he is basically pointing out the fact of the thin blue line, or the unwritten rule of cops. Cops will always side with other cops no matter what the argument whether it be racially motivated beatings, shootings, arresting another officer, etc.

Don't believe me? Get to know a few police officers and then listen to all the **** they get away with. I know of 3 friends who have close ties to police officers. 1 of which was a police officer at the time of his last DUI driving run. He was stopped by a local sheriff and was given a ride home and was never charged. This unwritten rule definitely exists.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> Here's how I see it. If Someone enters my house invited then it's 100% my responsibility to make sure my dog is safe. If they are uninvited then it's their's. No, police and other social services killing your dog on your property without cause is not legal.


Just for the record, this was the original post that started my "cop hater" thread. I was trying to point out that even if it's illegal, it's very unlikely anything will happen to a peace officer if they shoot your dog, therefore, one's dog would be better served by leasing and fencing...legal results will not help the dog...Sorry if any cops were offended....

Should I say something like, "Some of my best friends are cops and I never inhaled!"?


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Henrythewound said:


> Pursuiter, please stop, for the love of god, stooooop


He can't stop. He's losing the argument, and in his head he knows he's right. Just look at the extremes he has resorted to, just to make his point. ...which is... ?

As for dogs being tethered behaviorally to their breed, I think we probably all know someone like my friend Eric. Eric has a fairly imposing akita, which they originally bought as a pup, to hopefully grow up to become the ultimate hunting dog, and well, take over for an old heeler guarding big E's slightly paranoid wife from all the worlds burglars and rapists. Well, Mack turned out to be the single most useless guard dog anyone has ever seen. He greets all strangers by brushing along their legs like a cat, and then plopping down on your feet, rolling over up your shoes, and giving you the mopey eyes, so you have to pet him in order to walk from where you're standing. After a while, they got a Springer, trained him well as a hunter. Even after four ybut still, he has all the attitude in the world, and is so protective and feisty they have to keep him locked in a room whenever guests come over, cause he just goes nuts, forgets his training, and acts like a damn predator. He is not allowed outside.

When Mack approaches someone, and he sees they're uncomfortable, he stops, does that pretends not to see them out the corner of his eye, and lies down facing off away from them. If you do or say anything at that point, he runs away. Eric has met both the dogs parents, and is convinced there's some random partial retardation in the breed.

You just never know what you're gonna get.


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## 2clue (Jun 9, 2007)

yea im sure if someone shot a regular german sheperd wouldnt get in any trouble if it was trying to attack you, but if you shoot a police K9 german shepered when it was trying to attack you for now reason ur gonna get in trouble for sure


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## shmooove (Jun 5, 2008)

This has deviated a bit from the topic of aggressive dogs on trails but some of it still applies to tactics while rolling about.



GRGO said:


> The entire point of my post was to say that just because a large dog aproaches you barking it doesn't mean that the dog is agressive and a threat.


Sorry GRGO, but if this is your point then I wholeheartedly disagree with you. If a large, unknown dog approaches _anyone _ barking, the first assumption they should make is that it IS aggressive. The point to understand is that you never know. The dog may be a softy, but why risk getting attacked making that assumption?



GRGO said:


> How you respond can turn a curious and friendly dog into a defensive dog.


I definately agree with this and your attitude should be the first thing you check when in such an encounter, but realize that it also may not work the other way around. An agressive dog may not turn into a curious and friendly one. I have seen them firsthand.

So while I personally do not own a gun, I do not blame someone for defending themselves in such a manner as long as they felt there was no other option (and I pray that anyone who carries a weapon understands that point). I have been bitten as a kid (luckily not too badly), have recently had a large "friendly" dog tackle my 4 year old when taken off a leash (son was playing with his friend and ignoring the dog when she jumped - he is scared of them now), have had my jacket torn by 3 large dogs who overwhelmed a smaller woman trying to walk with them at night (unfortunately, we happened to run into each other in an unlit, poor visibility area) and had numerous other unfriendly canine encounters. My family and I have been lucky so far and some of these circumstances were honestly out of anyone's control (any startled animal would jump, bark and bite at night). But I am also not willing to put myself or my family at risk . I know that if I have to kill an animal I will. And sorry, but only I can make that determination in that particular time and place. It is absolutely not my first choice of action but I will happily pay a $500 fine and 20 hour of community service to not have scars, fear or more freaking hospital bills (which will be more expensive anyways).

Here in the mountains of Colorado, if you do not have control of your dog and it acts agressive, someone may indeed kill it on you. Hopefully not, but if you have any doubts, leash it up. My 65 lb collie/lab is a sweetheart towards humans but there is no way I'll let her off our property without her lead on (she's a mean beetch to other dogs, so that factors in too). Owner responsibility outweighs any other factor here.

Oh and a gun is probably a good idea here in the mountains, at least for protection from the bears! Just make sure it is bigger than a 9mm if you are not a _really_ good shot!


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## shmooove (Jun 5, 2008)

IntheBush said:


> This is got to be the funniest video of an aggressive dog, and an idiot owner I've ever seen... Get ready to laugh hard.. :thumbsup:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Holy crap I laughed my a s s off. This is definately getting forwarded on! Thanks, ItB.


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## atomiclotusbox (Feb 2, 2004)

^hahaha, agreed.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> Shows how little you know, you don't train a police dog to attack, you train it to stop. The difference between a Police German Shepard and a house pet German Shepard is that the police dog is trained to stop attacking. Attacking is instinctive to certain breeds, some herd, some retrevier, and some attack. That's why cops shoot German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Rots, Dobies. They don't shoot non-attack dogs, why? Because they have more than your 15 minute home dog lover course.
> 
> You couldn't stop a dog that has been breed to attack with your hands anymore than you could stop a bullet with your hands. It takes a gun.


Nope, nope, nope.... You got that one wrong. Police dogs are trained to attack, actually to subdue to assailant, and then trained when to stop attacking on command. Once the handler is confident the criminal is done doing what ever it was that made the officer send the dog, the command to back off is given. Trained police dogs are a different breed. They are vicious, but if handled properly, some of the best companions around.

Your points about this mans dogs and his ability to raise them are mute. You might want to stop now while you're ahead.

Attacking is not instinctive to certain breeds. However, aggressiveness and dominance is. If you cause the dog to become aggressive, and let it get away with it, you are allowing the dog to be dominate over you. You just have to be smarter than the canine.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> Shows how little you know, you don't train a police dog to attack, you train it to stop. The difference between a Police German Shepard and a house pet German Shepard is that the police dog is trained to stop attacking. Attacking is instinctive to certain breeds, some herd, some retrevier, and some attack. That's why cops shoot German Shepards, Pit Bulls, Rots, Dobies. They don't shoot non-attack dogs, why? Because they have more than your 15 minute home dog lover course.
> 
> You couldn't stop a dog that has been breed to attack with your hands anymore than you could stop a bullet with your hands. It takes a gun.


You don't know much about dogs in general and GSDs in particular, do you?

GSD's are commonly used as police dogs because they are very intelligent, extremely pack oriented and have the physical capabilities to get the job done.

They are not known for being "bred" as "attack" dogs. They are actually bred as herding dogs which, because of their intelligence, are very trainable to perform any kind of service. Police /attack dog being just one of the many services they commonly perform.

They do require the right upbringing to avoid problems however. They generally NEED to be properly socialized to any and all situations they will encounter. If they are never around other dogs or children or even other people when they are pups then there is a good chance they will have problems when they are adults. Lack of socialization can produce a dog known as a "fear biter". Someone or something get's to close to the dog and it reacts out of fear, not aggression. I have known dozens of GSD's over the years and none of them have been aggressive as in just looking to attack something. Some like to chase things barking like fools but pretty much any breed will do that.

Of course there are cases of GSDs who weren't raised properly and weren't good dogs but there are cases of that with pretty much any breed. GSD's (and Dobies and Rott's and Pits) get the rep because of their size and ability to really hurt someone.

One thing that should be said about GSDs which brings me back to my original point: They are VERY pack orientated and their entire existence revolves around protecting the pack. This makes it all the more important to not over-react and appear that you are a threat to the pack. They also will "stand guard" unitl they get a sense of you intentions.

Say a person is walking their dog on the trail. The dog is up the trail from the owner and around a bend. You come along the other way, huffing and puffing on some contraption.

The GSD is immediately thinking about protecting it's pack and takes a defensive posture between you and it's owner, barking and slowly approaching to see what your deal is. How you react right NOW will play a huge roll in how the dog reacts. If you've spent even fifteen minutes educating yourself you end up petting the dog and chatting with the owner to let him know how frightening the experience was and that maybe the dog should be on a leash. To busy to educate yourself and you end up shooting someone's beloved pet who is just doing it's job. It really works. You should try it sometime.

Now don't get me wrong. I am in total agreement that we should not have to deal with unleashed dogs while biking on public land. A responsible dog owner keeps his dog under his control which in most cases means leashed. But stuff happens and dogs get loose and the fact is we will have to deal with them.

I choose to educate myself. Some people choose to shoot.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

IntheBush said:


> Yes..., and riding by on a mountain bike often illicits a predatory response from Dogs, bears, and other carnivors..
> 
> Like we've said countless times throughout this thread, assuming that you wont be a victim of an animal attack isn't the best strategy. And plenty of dog owners are morons.
> 
> ...


I agree completely.


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## atomiclotusbox (Feb 2, 2004)

some choose to post endlessly about the subject


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

shmooove said:


> This has deviated a bit from the topic of aggressive dogs on trails but some of it still applies to tactics while rolling about.
> 
> Sorry GRGO, but if this is your point then I wholeheartedly disagree with you. If a large, unknown dog approaches _anyone _ barking, the first assumption they should make is that it IS aggressive. The point to understand is that you never know. The dog may be a softy, but why risk getting attacked making that assumption?
> 
> ...


I agree completely.

Assume the worst and be ready for anything.

Just don't pour gasoline on the fire by over reacting.

I carry a little .380 auto but I don't have to worry much about bears.


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

Well this was a fun thread... for a while. The level of dumb is too high now, and I feel bad for adding to it... not really... well a little bad... nah, none bad.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

The scariest moment in cycling for me is always when some toolboxes come in and argue about retarded, unrelated **** in threads on mtbr


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## GoodStash (Jan 27, 2008)

DrNickels said:


> I shot someone's pet, and yes I figured it was someone's pet since german shepherds are not native to south eastern ohio. I did not want to shoot the dog. It was not wearing a collar or any tags of any sort. The owner was nowhere to be found. I was hoping the two warning shots would be enough to back the dog down, or alert the owner to quickly get their dog because someone was in danger. I felt extremely horrible about killing someone's dog, and still feel bad, but I am not going to be a can of Alpo to someone's pet because they are too stupid to know how it will act around other people. I would have rather shot the owner for their stupidity and failure to keep their dog, a member of their family safe.
> I felt extremely threatened, tried all the things I could think of (backing away slowly, talking in a stern voice, firing warning shots even at the dog) and still the dog would not yield. It is like any other situation that is a survival situation; you put me in danger where I feel great bodily harm may come to me whether you be human, dog, bear, coyote, etc. and I will do what is needed to defend myself. I don't want this turning into an F88 discussion about animal rights or right to carry. We've heard it all before and it is a personal decision to carry a weapon and use it if you need to to defend yourself.


The only time it's acceptable to pull a fire arm is if you feel your life is in danger. If you thought your life was threatened by a dog, then you're a f***ing P*ssy. I was forced to take on a 90 lb rottwieler by hand and not once did I find myself in a situation where i was afraid for my life. You were probably beat up your entire pathetic life and now that you're able to carry a firearm, you'll find any excuse to use it. If I had to see you every time I looked in the mirror, I'd turn the gun on myself...


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## atomiclotusbox (Feb 2, 2004)

wow


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

Don't worry. Nobody in this thread has shot a dog. Just kids talking tough and bs'ing lies.


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## atomiclotusbox (Feb 2, 2004)

i grab a dog! i choke a dog!

bang! bang! bang!

all day long.


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## GRGO (May 4, 2008)

atomiclotusbox said:


> i grab a dog! i choke a dog!
> 
> bang! bang! bang!
> 
> all day long.


Look up the word "ironic" if you haven't already covered it in your reading class.


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