# Retirement, Where when??



## speedyd (Mar 10, 2004)

I am 62 avid cyclist,Road and mountain.Want to retire somewhere where I can do both and hang out with like minded.Have been looking at retirement communities,not old folk homes,but places like saddlebrooke in Arizona.Plan on visiting Bend Oregon,Boise Idaho,St George Utah and others.Open to suggestions.Dont like humidty.That sort of rules out Florida.I think Georgia has some biking north of Atlanta.What are all you old guys thinking?


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

Where? I enjoy mountain biking and skiing. Not a fan of big cities I've been looking at some small towns in western Colorado that will give me access to each. 

When? I'm 52. I'd like to be out there by the time I'm 60. Even if I'm not retired. I hope to be able to work part-time from home by then.

That's the plan, anyway. It's good to have goals.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Idyllwild, CA(4600ft) has 40+ miles combined network of trails you can ride straight out of your front door, 300 days out of the year. Idyllwild has homes, starting at $25k to $450k. The riding locals consists of a 69-year-old singlespeeder, 86-year-old trail rider, a few CAT1 XC pros, a World-Class marathon racer and a bunch of bikepackers, mixed with a few trail enthusiasts. Two excellent bike shops are up there, who can do everything from fork, shock and suspension service....to alloy frame repair. 

For a retired biker - Idyllwild is literally a Country Club: with top dining establishments, hiking, nearby lakes.....all in a Alpine environment. :thumbsup:


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## Mr5150 (Dec 20, 2011)

Where I live one can do anything from a rails to trails to stuff that requires a six inch bike with body armor. Not to mention we have skiing. But really, where you plan to live should have the consideration of factors that don't just include biking.


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## ratskrad (Jun 13, 2014)

55 years young and retired and living in Heber Utah. The wife and I moved here 5+ years ago from Park City. We got tired of our taxes being way to high and the have to have something going on in PC 52 weeks out of the year to keep the dirt pimps and merchants happy. Our taxes are 1/3 of what they were in PC and that was one of the things we looked at with both of us being in our fifties and looking at ways to reduce our overhead. We have hundreds of miles of trails in PC and Heber Valley and when the snow flies we are 20 minutes to PCMR or PCM if you drink the kool-aid. Heber is at 5500' feet so the winters are not quite as harsh as what we used to see in PC which is at 7000'and then again there has not been a real winter here in 5 years.


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## Guest (Sep 18, 2015)

My aunt and uncle love Bend, my wife likes Boise and I'm thinking about Laramie.


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## 1mlc (Sep 7, 2015)

There are so many factors to retirement, family, cost of living, weather, etc. etc. I like biking but that would have to somewhat down on the list of things that are a factor.

You mentioned North Georgia, let me tell you it is HOT and humid in the summer pretty much everywhere in the south. I used to work in Ringold, GA.


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## fog (Jan 14, 2005)

Laramie, really. You must like cold and wind.
I grew up there and I am very happy to not living there anymore.
I am retired and live in Lakewood, CO. Lots of riding in the area. Best place to retire, I do not know; but my wife is a native of Denver, so I had no choice.
Good luck in your retirement.
Wayne


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

My retirement is not going to be decided on mountain biking. I'm buying a sail boat and heading to the Caribbean.


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## milliesand (Jun 29, 2015)

After retiring I found out Tucson is building a 130 mile loop around town The Loop - Pima County

Summers are brutal here, so ride early in the mornings.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

Don't like the humidity of Florida, but are thinking of moving closer to Kentucky? You're doing it wrong.

Move west, young man. Like, at least two hundred miles west of the Mississippi.

Here's a map to help you find areas void of water. Whatever you do, avoid anything near the Gulf of Google.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Age 59 and retiring to Prescott AZ in one year from Nome AK. Being near family is the main consideration in the choice of Prescott, but really looking forward to nearby cycling opportunities: Sedona, Flag, PHX, BCT. Prescott itself seems to have embraced mtb with new trails going in every year. If not for family, I would probably be looking at Silver City NM. Can't wait. I ride my fatbike year round up here in AK, but I miss riding real singletrack. Looking forward to buying a couple of new bikes, too. Woot!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

fog said:


> Laramie, really. You must like cold and wind.
> I grew up there and I am very happy to not living there anymore.
> I am retired and live in Lakewood, CO. Lots of riding in the area. Best place to retire, I do not know; but my wife is a native of Denver, so I had no choice.
> Good luck in your retirement.
> Wayne


I couldn't agree with you more about Laramie. One of the coldest windiest places in the U.S. I have a part time airport shuttle gig I do once a week. I've been doing it for a couple of years now. Every shift that I work I'have to drive from Fort Collins to Cheyenne and over to Laramie via I-80. Sometimes twice in a shift. One miserable place that area is. It's very common to have 60 mph winds in blizzard white out conditions going across I-80 between the two cities. Yet Fort Collins is just 1 hour from Laramie via 287 and it's a night and day difference in weather.


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## cptjack (Jan 14, 2004)

North Georgia is not hot ( I can see why someone might think that because ga is beyond hot). Not expensive. With mass mountain trails...


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

My priorities:
Near my kids, or at least one of them.
Snow for skiing and fatbiking
Close to large trail system.

I might end up in the upper Midwest. Hopefully with an RV so I can ride all over the east coast (and finally learn to kiteboard).


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I retired four years ago about a week after I turned 62. 

We moved to an "active" adult community this past June. My experience is that the definition of active adult in these communities is "your heart is beating and you have money" and if you have money, they will keep your heart beating. Though there is a hike/bike club, the biking is basically rail trails. Its a fun social event but definitely not the type of biking on MTBR.

Fortunately, we live in North Jersey so finding like minded people is no problem only you are not going to find them in an adult community. I find rides on Meetup.com and other sites. There are plenty of people our age who want to ride but you have to seek them out. 

I also ski - a lot, like 85 days a season, so living anywhere not near a ski area is not going to happen. Besides our local hills, New England is five hours away and any where else is usually a non-stop flight from Newark Liberty Airport.

Oh, yeah, I still surf. An ocean better be close and I love NYC too. 

Honestly, if money is an issue, don't move to NJ to retire. It really is a fantastic place to live but there is a reason it was picked deal last as a place to retire. My wife and I are lucky and travel a great deal and I've been to 49 states. Personally, I'd rather vacation in different areas and live here but that is me. We're heading to Norcal next week to ride with friends and have in-laws in Hawaii so we have options other people may not have and both our son's live here.

Enough though. You are going to have to decide what is most important to you.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Year round riding?*

If you are looking for year round riding then you have fewer options. And how much riding do you do, and what type? Some people ride 5 miles per day and put their bikes away in winter. So where they live is not that big a deal. I retired where I could do my kind of mountain biking - 40 miles rides in mountainous terrain, year round. My two choices were the Auburn, CA area and Prescott, AZ. I chose Auburn because Tahoe is my favorite place to ride and it is a reasonable drive to bike there 5 months of the year, and then ride locally the rest of the year. And being a botanist I needed a bit more green than Prescott offered. Being retired I take trips to Arizona in the winter too. Lots of photos and info on these places on my biking site.














​


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Consider Reno, NV. Low taxes, full amenity city. Close to Tahoe and all the riding, skiing, and backcountry of the Sierra, but NOT in California. Reno itself has relatively high housing costs. So look at Carson City, Gardnerville/Minden, or one of the outlying Reno suburbs.

California is NOT a retirement friendly state. Consistently listed as one of the worst states for retirement.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Santa Cruz Mountains. Nearest trails, 1/2 mile. San Francisco, 1/2 hour drive. It would be expensive to move here now, but I'm already here and the house is paid for. Property taxes are limited by Proposition 13 here and based on what I bought the place for 23 years ago (in the middle of a recession). Why would I want to move?


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I love the idea of retiring to the Pacific NW but I'm not sure I can pull it off financially. I will move out of town when I go, though--the main advantage of where I am is that I can bike to work (2miles) but once that convenience is no longer required, there's little else holding me here...


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## SWriverstone (Sep 3, 2009)

Sorry...but...retirement? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ROTFL!!! LMAO!!!
---
Ahem...well, I don't know about everyone else here...but I have zero intention of retiring for the following reasons:

1. (the biggest) I can't afford it. Poke fun at me all you want, but life has dealt me a series of setbacks (some self-induced, others not) that have left me with nowhere near the mountain of cash and investments I'd need to kick back for the last 20+ years of my life and goof around.

2. I'd very quickly get bored in retirement—unless I had a "Mt. Everest" of cash and investments that would allow me to endlessly travel the world.

3. Work is fun for me. I enjoy challenging myself by staying relevant as I age—and it keeps my brain in better shape.

4. If were to ever retire from my current career, I'd just launch a different one.

---
Anyway, good thread—but it's also pretty irrelevant for me. (Anyone else?)

Scott


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Retirement means different things to different people. To me it means more freedom and flexibility. Ill have enough retirement income to get by without working, but Ill continue to work part time and stay busy with volunteer work, riding, hiking, trailbuilding, and hobbies like travel, cooking and brewing beer.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

*Oh, the irony....*

LOL....the general premise of "Retirement" is grossly over-rated. Many folks feel just because they paid their dues, busting their asses off for 25-30 years.....they can finally relax and go sedentary, the remainder of their lives. The reality is - once you go sedentary...the weight piles on, the pains increase, new ailments come forward, etc. Next thing you know - you're blowing your entire retirement savings....just to remain alive comfortably. By sitting in front of a TV or movie screen, swinging a golf club, or going on weight gain excursions(ie: cruises), you're basically expediting "waiting to die." Many folks never grasp the "use it or lose it" concept of keeping physically active, for life.

My final days will be spent either working part-time, and staying as active as I am today....which includes lots of riding.


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## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

Where do you live now? 
The reason why is to get a baseline for:

What is humidity to you?

What are taxes where you are now? ( and are there programs to reduce them in some of your choices)

What is "year round riding" to you?


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## speedyd (Mar 10, 2004)

Live in panhandle of texasPretty windy and dry but can mountainbike Palo Duro Canyon year round and ride road bike 3 seasons pretty well.Property taxes seem high but no state income tax.Thinking snowbird type scenario,Maybe Bend Oregon and Arizona or Boise Idaho and Florida beachReally like retirement community where there is lots of stuff to do and people to do them with.


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## owtdorz (Apr 26, 2012)

Some place where I can ski, fatbike, downhill, crosscountry, bikepack and go 4 wheeling.
The only place I can think of is...... Colorado Rockies.
We are currently looking for places since we are hoping to be semi retiring in a couple years.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

I'm retired in Gallup, New Mexico, which would not be the place to go if you are thinking of a real civilized retirement. But if you are someone who has to have a mountain to roam, most land here is public, so you can pretty much go anywhere and do anything you want to at any time. My opinion is to retire as soon as possible. Everything changes when you have expanded time options, and the younger you are the more options you will have. My wife and I are both artists and retirement has given us the opportunity spend as much time making art as we want to. As the leader of the local trail advocacy and building group, Gallup Trails, I spend a lot of time designing trail routes, constructing trail furniture and signage, going to meetings, maintaining the website, etc. We have a small cabin/bike house on the nearby mountain that I spend a couple nights a week at, doing lots of riding, camping, hiking, xc skiing and thinking. At some point it is good to be involved in something larger than your own hedonism, and I feel like I'm making a difference here and am loved and appreciated by my community. I cannot imaging having a better life than I do right now, hope it lasts a long time to come.


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## 29er4ever (Jan 8, 2013)

Although I am at least ten years from retiring, I have been thinking Prescott, AZ would be an ideal spot (admittedly biased since I already live in Arizona). Lots of intermediate-level trails and decent weather for a good share of the year. It seems to be a very bike-friendly community where they are always building something new. With Sedona, Flagstaff, and Phoenix all just a short drive away you have a diverse choice of good trails and climate year round. For me year-round riding is pretty important; getting back in shape after a three-month layoff I expect to get more difficult as I get older.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

Are you guys really basing your retirement on the mountain biking trails? When I retire, I want to see the world, not Prescott.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Phillbo said:


> Are you guys really basing your retirement on the mountain biking trails? When I retire, I want to see the world, not Prescott.


You MAy find your outlook is different when you actually retire. I've seen much of the world, plan to see more, but I recommend everyone doing that asap if you haven't. If you are hooked into a donkey job quit and pursue your real life now!


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Phillbo said:


> Are you guys really basing your retirement on the mountain biking trails? When I retire, I want to see the world, not Prescott.


Prescott, yes, and Flag, Phx, Sedona, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado... One has to live somewhere, and the rest world is only a drive, plane ticket away. I've been to the Caribbean. My wife was born there. A visit every five years or so is plenty. And I've lived on a boat... meh.


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

owtdorz said:


> Some place where I can ski, fatbike, downhill, crosscountry, bikepack and go 4 wheeling.
> The only place I can think of is...... Colorado Rockies.
> We are currently looking for places since we are hoping to be semi retiring in a couple years.


If you want to get away from the crowds, check out Eagle.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I retired at 55 2 years ago and moved to a mtb mecca on Vancouver Island, Cumberland. I don't ski, but there is a local resort, ocean, some of the best mountain biking ever, and a laid back lifestyle while still having all the amenities that I could want nearby. While the area has lots of retirees, Cumberland is chocked full of young families, and a few not so young. Probably 8 mountain bikers live on my 1 block long street. I ride a lot, whenever I want, and have hooked up with a crew that are mostly in their 40s and 50s. I'm the oldest, but not the slowest. Retire, and ride more.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> I retired at 55 2 years ago and moved to a mtb mecca on Vancouver Island, Cumberland. I don't ski, but there is a local resort, ocean, some of the best mountain biking ever, and a laid back lifestyle while still having all the amenities that I could want nearby. While the area has lots of retirees, Cumberland is chocked full of young families, and a few not so young. Probably 8 mountain bikers live on my 1 block long street. I ride a lot, whenever I want, and have hooked up with a crew that are mostly in their 40s and 50s. I'm the oldest, but not the slowest. Retire, and ride more.


:thumbsup:


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Zachariah: Speak for yourself. 

I retired over four years ago and my savings have grown since then, I weight the same now as in college and the army, ride almost every day in the warm months and ski almost every day in the cold months. The sex is better too. What is this sedentary life you talk about? I never had time to have so much fun when I worked. Ailments? Nothing to speak about. Travel? Hell yes! Lots of travel. 

As I said, speak for yourself when you pan retirement.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

If you are not enjoying retirement, you are doing it wrong.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Your choice*



Zachariah said:


> LOL....the general premise of "Retirement" is grossly over-rated.... The reality is - once you go sedentary...the weight piles on, the pains increase, new ailments come forward, etc. Next thing you know - you're blowing your entire retirement savings....just to remain alive comfortably. By sitting in front of a TV or movie screen, swinging a golf club, or going on weight gain excursions(ie: cruises), you're basically expediting "waiting to die."


That's your choice, not mine.


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## wncbiker (Jan 20, 2004)

speedyd said:


> I am 62 avid cyclist,Road and mountain.Want to retire somewhere where I can do both and hang out with like minded.Have been looking at retirement communities,not old folk homes,but places like saddlebrooke in Arizona.Plan on visiting Bend Oregon,Boise Idaho,St George Utah and others.Open to suggestions.Dont like humidty.That sort of rules out Florida.I think Georgia has some biking north of Atlanta.What are all you old guys thinking?


Come to Haywood County, North Carolina. We are located just west of Asheville, NC, the road biking is great. Although mtbing options within the county are limited, there are unlimited mtb trails located in all directions, you will be living in the hub of mtbing in western North Carolina.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Cool thread, so I'm tuning in. Though I am only 44 and plan to never retire - I'm in medicine and like it, and pays too well, but plan to go part time in my 50s.

Trail work, designing and building and upgrading, are probably my favorite things, and keep me in better shape than riding itself. So, wherever I end up I'll need the freedom to pick up my mattock and saw and hike and build what I want, where I want, when I want. - without being hassled. I've been to areas that are very restrictive (rightfully so) when it comes to this sort of thing, and while the trails may be great, the loss of freedom would be too much for me. I suppose if I did live in an are with an abundance of very dialed trails I might be happy with riding by itself.

Where I live right now is hardly exotic but I've got twenty plus acres adjacent to a vast tract of remote State Forest that is ripe for both riding, building, and trail skiing, and am in good with the Forestry guy. The family camps and rides from there all the time. I'm working on building my own cabin to live out of, and ride from, when the kids move on. Rough cut lumber mill up the road. I digress...

So, I'll probably end up staying put, but take the extra time and money I save and spend time in places like BC and the like.


Any advice on places that might be good for builders?


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## 1mlc (Sep 7, 2015)

wncbiker said:


> Come to Haywood County, North Carolina. We are located just west of Asheville, NC, the road biking is great. Although mtbing options within the county are limited, there are unlimited mtb trails located in all directions, you will be living in the hub of mtbing in western North Carolina.


Oooo plenty of MTB trails and awesome roads to drive, I have an S2000 that is made for that area.

Sounds tempting :thumbsup:


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## Fuzzle (Mar 31, 2015)

I moved to Bend 10 years ago so I already live where I'm going to retire. I don't think I will ever move unless my husband and I find a place that suites us better and I can't see that happening.

I'm not retiring anytime soon. I help people find houses to buy and I really enjoy that. I also work a bit in the creative field too.


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## Biscuit Pants (Jun 26, 2006)

I'm buying a 18 acre plot near DuPont State Forest in Brevard NC. It's got over 10,000 acres of land and 100 miles of trails, waterfalls, lakes and streams. Just turned 60 and will hanging it up at 65. Building a new home on this property which has a 1/2 mile border with DuPont, I can work from there during my last few years. It's about 30 minutes SW from Asheville, NC, where deadheads go to retire. The county is about half state or national forest. Fly fishing, kayaking, hiking and biking plus Asheville is home to about 24 breweries including Sierra Nevada and New Belgium. Not a bad plan, if you ask me


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## Fuzzle (Mar 31, 2015)

SWriverstone said:


> Sorry...but...retirement? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ROTFL!!! LMAO!!!
> ---
> Ahem...well, I don't know about everyone else here...but I have zero intention of retiring for the following reasons:
> 
> ...


Mr. SWriverstone,

From what I have read about you, I think your a lucky guy .


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

i'm going to retire somewhere that i can bowhunt easily..and have great hospital care.

haha..i cannot believe how fast life is playing on. crazy.


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## SWriverstone (Sep 3, 2009)

I feel compelled to post up that all you guys retiring in your 40's and 50's are in a VERY elite and lucky minority. Do I envy you? Absolutely. But are you "normal?" Not even close. You're probably part of the 1% (or darn close to it). 

As I mentioned earlier, having enough of a mountain of cash and investments to kick back and goof around for a decade or three means you are FAR above the means of the majority of Americans.

So enjoy it! 
Scott


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

SWriverstone said:


> I feel compelled to post up that all you guys retiring in your 40's and 50's are in a VERY elite and lucky minority. Do I envy you? Absolutely. But are you "normal?" Not even close. You're probably part of the 1% (or darn close to it).
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, having enough of a mountain of cash and investments to kick back and goof around for a decade or three means you are FAR above the means of the majority of Americans.
> 
> ...


true.

i wasted the early years of earning $ doing stupid things. mostly thinking with my pecker. i finally wised up and got a job. a career.

i am on schedule to retire at 62, which is the best i can do. i'll be super comfortable. 
currently love my job as a civil engineer. mostly low stress, and i'm not full time behind a desk. i live near some great MTB bike areas..and being in the Bay Area, CA..i am not bored ever. food, shows, friends..mtn biking, and the outdoors is untapped by all the city folk here. i love it. i ride almost everyday now...if i'm not riding a trail, i'm jogging it.

i learned one thing as i aged..it isnt just money you need to enter retirement..you need a good healthy foundation too. all the money isnt gonna last if you are fat, diabetic..have a bad heart..life will derail fast. really fast.

keep moving!! now!


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

SWriverstone said:


> I feel compelled to post up that all you guys retiring in your 40's and 50's are in a VERY elite and lucky minority. Do I envy you? Absolutely. But are you "normal?" Not even close. You're probably part of the 1% (or darn close to it).
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, having enough of a mountain of cash and investments to kick back and goof around for a decade or three means you are FAR above the means of the majority of Americans.
> 
> ...


Part of the 1%, ha... hardly! But you are right to a point, and I do feel fortunate to have this opportunity. I'll be retiring from my current job in just under a year at age 60, but I expect to work part-time at a job I enjoy until 64 or 65. Part time work will still leave me plenty of time to ride and travel. Our income will be modest, by many people's standards, but we'll have enough to get by and do the things we enjoy. One of the biggest benefits is that I'll have excellent heath care coverage as part of my retirement package. A small, affordable home and a simple lifestyle centered on outdoor activities is what makes this possible for us. My wife and I simply don't feel like we "need" a lot of the "trappings" (in all senses of the word) of what many people call "success". We also don't have any credit card debt, big loans to pay off, or kids to put through college, etc. The only "extravagance" is what I plan to spend on a couple of new bikes next year, but since riding keeps me young in heart and mind, I can easily justify that expense as a "need."

I'm not sure what your circumstances are. You mentioned having a financial setback in a previous post. We've weathered a few of those ourselves. But is it possible you, like many Americans, think you "need" more than you actually do? All the best, VB


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Yeah, you don't have to be obscenely rich to retire before 60. My wife and I together make mid-$70k before taxes-I'm not sure that even counts as middle class any more. All it takes is a little planning, some sacrifices, and learning to live frugally. I've been saving toward retirement for 25 years, Anne's been doing so even longer I think. We have no kids, mortgage is paid off, we have few expenses or debts. I hope and believe we can comfortably retire at or even before age 60. I really want to go while I'm still young enough to ride and enjoy life a bit before I'm too decrepit!


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## Grok (Sep 4, 2015)

This is a great thread. Interesting to see other perspectives, along with the place suggestions.

Living in Montreal is great in the summers. I hate the cold, so ideally I would love to leave from Jan to mid March every year. Turned 50 this year, my goal would be to leave during those months by the age of 55. 

Love the idea of Arizona, some of the pics other bikers put up are spectacular. Only I also love the ocean, and would love a place with biking and the ocean.

If I could afford to retire today and spend my time outdoors from this age onward? ABSOLUTELY!


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

1%, hardly. I got a decent pension after serving in the Canadian Army, and RCAF. Could have stayed til age 60 but it wouldn't have increased my pension by much. Smaller house, low taxes, great riding.


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## RIDESLOW (Dec 21, 2007)

cptjack said:


> North Georgia is not hot ( I can see why someone might think that because ga is beyond hot). Not expensive. With mass mountain trails...


That's where i plan on going.Been there abouts a couple of times , beautiful area.
It's got mtns , streams , and lots of good riding .SHHHHHHHHH don't tell everyone !


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

While it has been hinted at, I'm surprised Durango Colorado has not been mentioned directly.
I too am biased because I live here, but there is great mountain and road biking, skiing, no interstate nearby, 6 brewpubs, a college, and access to more diverse locations than just about anywhere. In the winter. Moab is only 2.5 hours away, Sedona is only 5. And in the summer, we have some of the best high country riding in the state, just 30 minutes away.
I don't know that there is anything particularly geared towards retired folks, but if you want a town of like minded, outdoor orientated folks of every age, it is certainly here.
YMMV


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

Okay, I'll throw in my 2 cents...

Fountain Hills, AZ(winter) / Durango, CO(summer). The wife and I are in our early fifties and not retired. McDowell Mtn park in our backyard in AZ and Raider Ridge in our backyard in CO. The cost of living is cheap in AZ and the Mayo clinic is down the road. Read the post above for a Durango description. 7.5 hour hi-way drive door-to-door.

And please don't give me that b.s. about the 1% as both my wife and I have saved since leaving college and continue to bust our asses. If you want to retire at a decent age you need to live beneath your means, set some goals and invest your money wisely. If you're a trust fund baby, inherited a bunch of money or business then good for you otherwise you need to plan wisely for early retirement. 😉


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Why retire to any one place is my opinion. I am planning on retiring in a couple of more years, sell the house here in Seattle, buy a trailer, and then the wife and I will set out on the 2 year, at least, trip that we have always wanted. I am forever cruising the web checking out the vibe of all the different places we all read about. Keeping a list. Love the vibe of Prescott; "yeah we can give you a map but why don't you stop by the bike shop. I am sure there will be a local hanging out that would love to show you around". Driggs ID, with TetonMTB and TVTAP looks very promising. And of course there is always all of Utah. Price UT springs mind right now. I am very excited about the journey ahead. Glorious, Simply Glorious.


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

Isn't Craig Bierly from Seattle area, and did a similar thing in his sprinter. I believe he hangs out in Sedona mostly.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I don't know Craig but I have a friend in Tucson that does the Sprinter thing for half the year when he is not working. I want a little more comfort for me and the wife myself. Plus she doesn't bike (mobility issues) and needs some place nice to hang out when she isn't shuttling me or I am out riding. Plus the trailer makes a great base/hangout when you meet people on the trail.

Sedona has some really cool stuff but it gets a little hot during the summer. According to the NOAA app, Heber Valley, Ut is just about perfect for me right now. It is hanging right around 55/76 so not too cold and not too hot.

As a brief aside, one really cool thing about our online community is it makes a great way to hook up with people when you are traveling. Cool stuff.

Hmmmmm,.....as big believer in lots of forums for more traffic to a site that might be an idea for another one; traveling.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Rev Bubba said:


> Fortunately, we live in North Jersey.


New Jersey is a beautiful state. Property taxes though are through the roof and I couldn't imagine retiring there unless I had a huge retirement cash cushion just to pay that huge property tax nut. I lived in N. NJ for 20 years, miss the Italian food. It's a great place to enjoy a high professional salary, but at a cost..

For $hits and giggles I just zillowed my old house in Bernardsville - 2500 sq/ft house on a 19,000 sq/ft lot Zestimate $954K with 2014 property taxes of....ready for it..$14,544!

As a comparison, my house in western metro Denver area: 3800 sq/ft on 17,000 sq/ft lot zestimate $485K and $2,600 in property taxes.

Snow sports - take your pick some of the best big mtn terrain in the country. I can be at Loveland/A-Basin in an hour and change, Vail in under 2. GJ/Fruita in under 4 hours, Moab 5.5 hours. Local riding is stellar as well, but getting busy during the weekends.

What I struggle with is the snow in March and April in Denver. We are all done with it and want to push into spring. The goal is to have the house paid off and I would get a tow-behind RV for some camping in warmer weather during the fringe months. Tucson is an easy 14 hour drive.  We ran into a couple from MA rolling through town who just purchased a 2015 Forest River Vibe Extreme Lite 308BH, Little Falls MN - - RVtrader.com and he gets 12 mpg pulling it with a F150 Ecoboost. Said it pulled 65 up Loveland/Vail passes and "barely knew it was there"...


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

cbrossman said:


> Isn't Craig Bierly from Seattle area, and did a similar thing in his sprinter. I believe he hangs out in Sedona mostly.


Craig has been doing it for awhile now, we always enjoy his visits to the Zuni Mountains!



SlimL said:


> As a brief aside, one really cool thing about our online community is it makes a great way to hook up with people when you are traveling. Cool stuff.
> 
> Hmmmmm,.....as big believer in lots of forums for more traffic to a site that might be an idea for another one; traveling.


Great idea!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Moab

Hiking, river rafting, fishing/hunting, Lake Powell, 4x4, great backcountry and groomed XC skiing and snowmobiling in the winter in the mountains while it is generally really nice in town, great library, great arts scene, relatively low property taxes and other expenses, small but well equipped hospital, new USU campus will (probably) be built by the time I get there so there will be educational opportunities, etc. etc. etc. 

Oh and there are a few mountain bike trails there, too. 

Not for everyone, but perfect for me. I can't wait to get out of the clusterf**k that the Colorado Front Range is becoming.


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## milliesand (Jun 29, 2015)

This November marks 4 years since retirement. I mention this as what WAS supposedly our dream (travel) didn't pan out, and things NEVER considered (Mountain biking) could turn out to be the best part of the day. 

Have several hobbies. doing the same thing every day gets booooooorrrrrrrrring.

We get old because we stop playing


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

honkinunit said:


> Moab
> 
> Hiking, river rafting, fishing/hunting, Lake Powell, 4x4, great backcountry and groomed XC skiing and snowmobiling in the winter in the mountains while it is generally really nice in town, great library, great arts scene, relatively low property taxes and other expenses, small but well equipped hospital, new USU campus will (probably) be built by the time I get there so there will be educational opportunities, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> ...


What's happening to the FR to make it a CF? I honestly am curious...


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

sisu said:


> What's happening to the FR to make it a CF? I honestly am curious...


The bottom line is too many people. This affects mountain biking in that all of the accessible trails are crowded after working hours and on weekends, sometimes so crowded you can't even park at the trailheads. Even if you can find a place to park, you end up only being able to ride a minute or two at a time on singletrack because you are constantly having to stop to yield to hikes/horses/other riders. So, you have to drive to get away from everyone, but the highways are jammed, too. You don't dare go to the high country unless you can go Monday-Thursday, unless you like sitting in traffic jams. Like to ski? Forget that for the same reasons, unless you are rich enough to buy a condo near a ski area. Even then, you can forget DH skiing on weekends or holiday periods. Too crowded.

If you were retired right now, today, you could deal by riding/skiing/hiking during the week, but my retirement is 5-7 years out. When I moved here in the late 80's, the population on the FR was about 1.5 million. Now, it is over 3 million, by the time I retire it will be 4 million, and by the time I die it will likely be 6-8 million. The main close in trails are on the west side of the Denver metro, and between Lakewood and Longmont there are over 30,000 houses already approved and in the process of being built. The trail use has doubled just in the past few years in Jeffco and Boulder, and another 75,000 people will be landing in the next 2-4 years as those houses are built. Add to that the population growth in the eastern metro, at least a few of those people drive out and ride, and it is just not enjoyable any more.

I do many other things besides ride, and they all have the same issues. I used to shoot trap, and when I moved here there were three gun clubs within thirty minutes of my house, and two designated National Forest ranges. EVERY SINGLE ONE has closed. The closest public trap is now over an hour away, and there are ZERO sanctioned shooting areas in the National Forest.

They finally opened Gross Reservoir to kayaking a few years ago, so I bought a kayak. The first few years were fine. Now, if you aren't parked at the ramp by 9 AM, you can't get within a mile of it.

DH skiing? Even if you want to deal with the traffic, even discounted lift tickets are $50-70. I used to go to Eldora a lot, but they close the parking lot on good days now, due to being at capacity.

I moved here for the outdoor rec opportunities, and I decided I could put up with the city/suburb life for the job opportunities combined with the convenient and relatively uncrowded rec. It has all changed. People from the east and west coasts love it when they move here, but they are used to being ******* to elbow everywhere they go. I grew up in a small town in the midwest, my wife grew up on a farm, and we just aren't cut out for this crap. On top of all of this, the cost of living is getting stupid. Yes, property taxes are low, but CO has figured out how to get the money back through fees, tolls and sales taxes. Housing is ridiculous now, but since we bought many years ago, we are OK with that aspect. I can't believe what people are paying to live in extremely poorly built houses on postage stamp lots next to highways, train tracks, superfund sites, garbage dumps, etc. The builders here cut corners at every phase, and the owners are stuck with the issues 10 years down the line. I saw it when they built Rock Creek, and I see it now with all of the crap they are building between Lakewood and Longmont. Not to mention the very idea of having a $500,000 "single family" house so close to the one next door you can hear your neighbor fart. You would be better off in a townhouse or apartment where they at least have sound barriers.

Think Silicon Valley. Chicago suburbs. Houston. Dallas. That is what the FR has become.

Not. For. Us.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

honkinunit- You will like Moab and the Southwest! Drop by Gallup sometime after you get there.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

I retired three years ago at age 61 and live in a little town in Marin County called San Anselmo. I've lived here my entire life and my wife is still employed as the Pastry Chef at a local restaurant/deli. 

Gary Fisher lived in the neighborhood before moving to San Francisco and the weather is perfect for riding all year long. I rode the Hoo Koo E Koo trail two days ago that was the name of one of Fisher's mountain bikes and ride Mount Tamalpais three days a week. 

I own my home so I can live off my pension and my wife's income. Life is prertty good so far.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

matuchi said:


> I retired three years ago at age 61 and live in a little town in Marin County called San Anselmo. I've lived here my entire life and my wife is still employed as the Pastry Chef at a local restaurant/deli.
> 
> Gary Fisher lived in the neighborhood before moving to San Francisco and the weather is perfect for riding all year long. I rode the Hoo Koo E Koo trail two days ago that was the name of one of Fisher's mountain bikes and ride Mount Tamalpais three days a week.
> 
> I own my home so I can live off my pension and my wife's income. Life is prertty good so far.


A little crowded for my taste, but a nice area for sure. Love the climate in Marin. But with a median home price of over $1 million, it's hard for average Joes to retire there, unless you were raised there.


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## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

veloborealis said:


> A little crowded for my taste, but a nice area for sure. Love the climate in Marin. But with a median home price of over $1 million, it's hard for average Joes to retire there, unless you were raised there.


I was born in Ross Hospital in 1951 and grew up here and lived my entire live in Marin. Many years ago you could afford to buy a home with a decent full time job. I could not afford to move here if I was buying now.


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

I was born in Boulder, CO in 1951.
My wife and I are retired 2 years now in the PacNW. We sold the house in the mountains but not just because the snow sucked last year. Hoping to hang out in Whistler and Whitefish in winter, and summer on the sailboat we live on in Puget Sound. Last summer included some bluegrass in Ladysmith, BC, and crabbing in Sucia. Sailing (like mountain biking) is a lot more awesome when you don't have deadlines. 
Just returned from 3 months in Europe and waiting for the snow to dump! Mt Biking fills in any time in the NW. We do ride in the rain and sleet! 
Bought a cargo bike for grocery shopping and riding to the pub! I keep it on the deck when cruising. 
I still work as custodian on our investment properties on occasion to beat the doldrums of drinking too early! not that it always wins (wink, wink, know wha aye mean)
I am trying to get my wife to move to Bellingham, WA. We lived there many moons ago! Great snowboarding and mountaineering, great sailing and biking, small college town with a great attitude and close to Seattle and Vancouver, BC (not to mention Whistler!)

Retirement sucks!


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

honkinunit said:


> The bottom line is too many people. This affects mountain biking in that all of the accessible trails are crowded after working hours and on weekends, sometimes so crowded you can't even park at the trailheads. Even if you can find a place to park, you end up only being able to ride a minute or two at a time on singletrack because you are constantly having to stop to yield to hikes/horses/other riders. So, you have to drive to get away from everyone, but the highways are jammed, too. You don't dare go to the high country unless you can go Monday-Thursday, unless you like sitting in traffic jams. Like to ski? Forget that for the same reasons, unless you are rich enough to buy a condo near a ski area. Even then, you can forget DH skiing on weekends or holiday periods. Too crowded.
> 
> If you were retired right now, today, you could deal by riding/skiing/hiking during the week, but my retirement is 5-7 years out. When I moved here in the late 80's, the population on the FR was about 1.5 million. Now, it is over 3 million, by the time I retire it will be 4 million, and by the time I die it will likely be 6-8 million. The main close in trails are on the west side of the Denver metro, and between Lakewood and Longmont there are over 30,000 houses already approved and in the process of being built. The trail use has doubled just in the past few years in Jeffco and Boulder, and another 75,000 people will be landing in the next 2-4 years as those houses are built. Add to that the population growth in the eastern metro, at least a few of those people drive out and ride, and it is just not enjoyable any more.
> 
> ...


Sounds like Seattle to me. Born and raised here and can't wait to get out. I understand that it is great for some but you know; different spokes for different folks.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

*Enjoy your good fortune...*



matuchi said:


> I was born in Ross Hospital in 1951 and grew up here and lived my entire live in Marin. Many years ago you could afford to buy a home with a decent full time job. I could not afford to move here if I was buying now.


I have family scattered along the stretch of coast between Pacifica and Half Moon Bay. I love the Coast Range trails between there and SC, as well as the climate. I would love to retire there, but there's just no way. The little 900 sq. ft. cottage my grandfather built for $5K in 1955 (land included, 1/4 acre lot), just sold for $775K, one of the cheapest properties in the area. Sold to family, so it's still standing. Most potential buyers would have torn the house down and rebuilt. Makes me wish (kinda) I'd followed by Bay Area cousins into the building trades instead of going off to college and moving to Alaska. Still looking forward to heading south to AZ in a year, though, where I can ride year round AND afford to live.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

[QUOTE'.......Still looking forward to heading south to AZ in a year, though, where I can ride year round AND afford to live.[/QUOTE]

Got that right. While Tucson still seems a little hot for me right now, Prescott looks just about perfect.

Heber City in Utah also.


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## dcitron (Nov 1, 2010)

sold our place in PC Feb 2014 and have not got back except to visit. we live in the mid atlantic and have been thinking about finding a community in PC. My wife does not ride and thinks we need one of the golf club communities to really meet people...what are your thoughts?


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

dcitron said:


> sold our place in PC Feb 2014 and have not got back except to visit. we live in the mid atlantic and have been thinking about finding a community in PC. My wife does not ride and thinks we need one of the golf club communities to really meet people...what are your thoughts?


I don't golf so I don't know what a golf community would be like. But as long as there are other people that are doing the things that you enjoy also, there probably would be a group that you could hook up with. I do a few different things so I always find ways to hook up with people. Though the other side of that coin is I am one of my favorite people to spend time with.

This is specially true with the tourist based town. Prescott's MTB club provides an email addy to get in contact with someone to ride with. Driggs, ID has the TVTAP which is both bike and X-Country skiing. Just to name a few.

If you're a joiner, you probably could meet people any where you go. Sign up for a few newsletters and you will see what I mean.


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## MTB Dad (Sep 22, 2012)

In the EastBay in N. Cal and am basically retired. I plan on doing some part time stuff but I find plenty to do around the house. I ride daily as I'm only a mile from trails and quiet. I have one in college and one still in HS so until the wife and I know where they might end up we are staying put. We have traveled the entire coast and every state west of Colorado with our trailer to see where we might like to move someday. Weather wise N.Cal is hard to beat but our $'s go so much farther elsewhere. We loved the Boise area, parts of Colorado, and AZ but all have limitations for riding during the year. Bend,OR is fantastic but overall cost isn't much different then the BayArea.
I guess we could stay as a home base and just invest in a big RV.


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> Not for everyone, but perfect for me. I can't wait to get out of the clusterf**k that the Colorado Front Range is becoming.


Half the people moving to Durango are from that side of the hill, including myself. I travel back for work occasionally, I can hardly wait to leave once I'm there.
And with like 1000 brew pubs, why can't I find one with a happy hour?


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

Crankyone said:


> I am trying to get my wife to move to Bellingham, WA. We lived there many moons ago! Great snowboarding and mountaineering, great sailing and biking, small college town with a great attitude and close to Seattle and Vancouver, BC (not to mention Whistler!)
> 
> Retirement sucks!


Bellingham has always interested me, I spent some time there with friends when I was a graduate student at WSU. Our children are on the west coast now, so it Bellingham would put us closer to them.
So while me and my asthma would appreciate the abundance of air out there, it is sure would be a difficult transition from SW weather to PNW weather.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

cbrossman said:


> Half the people moving to Durango are from that side of the hill, including myself. I travel back for work occasionally, I can hardly wait to leave once I'm there.
> 
> And with like 1000 brew pubs, why can't I find one with a happy hour?


You cannot find a brewpub with a happy hour for the same reason you can't find a studio apartment for $1000/mo: (some) businesses are booming, and people are spending money like there is no tomorrow. Why sell for $3.50 when you can get $5?

There was an article in the Denver Post last weekend about just how urban the Front Range has become. No surprise here, but I'm guessing many people from "elsewhere" would be surprised:

Colorado rurality an urban legend - The Denver Post

We've had a good run on the Front Range, but believe me, we are counting down until we can GTFO. I can't imagine anyone retiring here, but obviously I am in the minority, because there are 55+ retirement communities popping up.

The next five years are going to be a challenge for us.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

cbrossman said:


> Bellingham has always interested me, I spent some time there with friends when I was a graduate student at WSU. Our children are on the west coast now, so it Bellingham would put us closer to them.
> So while me and my asthma would appreciate the abundance of air out there, it is sure would be a difficult transition from SW weather to PNW weather.


A good friend of mine who is a Colorado native and who has never lived anywhere else, just retired to Bellingham, and five years ago our next-door neighbors, also CO natives, retired there. They love it.


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## granpa (Sep 11, 2007)

Albuquerque for a medium sized city. You can ride all year or go skiing in the winter (depends on the winter). Outstanding road riding as the shoulders are huge and bike paths extensive plus excellent mtb. No humidity, no bugs, limited culture, cheap housing, 2.5 hour drive from Mexico and 6 hours to Sedona or Moab. 
Albuquerque Mountain Bike Association (AMBA) - Albuquerque, New Mexico Mountain Bike Advocacy and the NM thread on this site

Prescott or Sedona for a small town.


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## GraniteBob (Nov 2, 2015)

Retired last May and just turned 61. Loving ever minute of it so far, but it was definitely a change from a well paying, but relatively high stress position. Felt like jumping out of a moving vehicle at first!

We were fortunate enough to have a solid plan that we have been working on for quite some time, and also sought professional guidance with Financial Planning.

Surprised to see the negative comments on retirement, but it is definitely a very personal choice. One post in particular seems to think that retirement is a binary choice. You retire and you sit and await the grim reaper, or you keep working! I'm sure there are people that do that, but there are tons of levels in-between. I gave my self one year to just play and do whatever the hell I want to and then I plan to either work part time or get significantly involved with a volunteering effort. I have plenty to keep me busy!

In regards to location we're in the Sierra Foothills on Lake Folsom. I can roll out of my garage and be on the trails in about 4 minutes. Its awesome and I ride 2-4 times a week locally with trips to the multitude of other areas in-between. I'm also a big motorcycle guy and the riding around here is spectacular. Yosemite to the south, Tahoe, Lassen, out to the coast, wine country, all lots of fun. If you ski, Tahoe is a little over an hour away. Sacramento and the Bay Area 90 minutes provide just about anything you can think of from an entertainment, arts and dining experience.

Great year round MTB riding with the exception of a couple of months in the summer that get pretty toasty, but our group is usually out on the trails by 6:30am so its still great.

CA isn't for everyone, as pointed out. It is not retirement friendly from a financial perspective, but the majority of Northern CA is a pretty cool place to live. East of Sacramento in the foothills is pretty affordable compared to the Bay. The Bay Area is just nuts price wise and the bubble keeps growing. Scary stuff.

The only other place we would consider is the Portland, OR area since we spent 8 years there and loved it except for the gray and overcast winter. If you don't ride in mud and rain, you don't ride, but the summer months are spectacular. We lived across the river in Vancouver so no state income tax and Oregon has no sales tax, so its the best of both worlds. We also lived in Seattle, but that was even worse weather wise and I need sun!

Good luck to all the future MTB retirees figuring out which locale makes the most sense to their particular situation!

Bob


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

granpa said:


> Albuquerque for a medium sized city. You can ride all year or go skiing in the winter (depends on the winter). Outstanding road riding as the shoulders are huge and bike paths extensive plus excellent mtb. No humidity, no bugs, limited culture, cheap housing, 2.5 hour drive from Mexico and 6 hours to Sedona or Moab.
> Albuquerque Mountain Bike Association (AMBA) - Albuquerque, New Mexico Mountain Bike Advocacy and the NM thread on this site
> 
> Prescott or Sedona for a small town.


The problem with ABQ is the crime rate, real or perceived. I know that north of ABQ there are some great places, but my friend who lives up there has a super expensive security system on his house and packs heat everywhere he goes. I asked him if things were really that bad, and he just looked at me and "Yes!". He is retiring to Pagosa Springs.

One thing I can say about the FR that is positive is that the overall crime rate is not terribly high, and most of the crime is predictable in both location and situation. Yes, if you make a habit of hanging in LoDo until the bars close you are going to have some issues, and Denver has its 'hoods that you want to steer clear from but outside of that, crime is not that bad.

If you live in the burbs and have a "normal" life, you will probably be OK.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

honkinunit said:


> The problem with ABQ is the crime rate, real or perceived.


Can't argue with a local that say's that, however I've talked with numerous "locals" that say that the crime is more relegated to the "high crime areas" that most cities have. IE, don't go there and you won't have problems. 
I don't know personally, but I think ABQ has everything I'm looking for in a community, re recreation, sufficient airport (SWA...yeah), proximity to other recreation, dry, temperate climate. Just wished I knew more about the real crime scene.


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## granpa (Sep 11, 2007)

Well put Abq. on your list to visit and we'll do a ride. The state is poor and burglary is random and rampant. Violent crime is (mostly) confined to criminals shooting/stabbing each other. If you're not prone to bar hopping at 2 in the morning your OK. 

There is a huge road riding community and large mtb. community. The closest mountain biking is in the foothills east of the city and in many places its an easy ride to the trails out of your door. 

There is a huge hispanic community which may be a bit of a culture shock depending on where your from.


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

*70's, sunshine and 60+ miles of single track and not a soul in sight...*

For you guys tired of the crowded front range, Cali, etc, here's an option for you... Fountain Hills, AZ. Blow up the pic. Do you see crowds on the trail looking down the mountain ? I thought not ! :thumbsup: Also, you have Prescott, Sedona, Tucson and Flagstaff all within a two hour drive. ALL of these areas are at different elevations and have different types of riding terrain.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Ob1Hoagie said:


> For you guys tired of the crowded front range, Cali, etc, here's an option for you... Fountain Hills, AZ. Blow up the pic. Do you see crowds on the trail looking down the mountain ? I thought not ! :thumbsup: Also, you have Prescott, Sedona, Tucson and Flagstaff all within a two hour drive. ALL of these areas are at different elevations and have different types of riding terrain.


Is that McDowell Park? I put it on list to check out. Right along side your name


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

What about Pine/Strawberry? I think they have a pretty extensive Mtb trail system. Downsides?


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

It's actually a view from the Scottsdale preserve which has trails that are directly connected to McDowell Mtn park. You can look at online maps for the Scottsdale preserve, McDowell Mtn park and the Fountain Hills preserve and view all of the interconnected trails. Scottsdale is continually adding land to their preserve which is going north right into Tonto National forest.


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

I'm just not that familiar w/the trails around Pine/Strawberry. I'd page some guys on this thread -> http://forums.mtbr.com/arizona/pine-strawberry-trails-866164.html
and see if they can help you out.

"Some" folks like to keep trails on the down-low in AZ ;-)


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Ob1Hoagie said:


> It's actually a view from the Scottsdale preserve which has trails that are directly connected to McDowell Mtn park. You can look at online maps for the Scottsdale preserve, McDowell Mtn park and the Fountain Hills preserve and view all of the interconnected trails. Scottsdale is continually adding land to their preserve which is going north right into Tonto National forest.


Looks like a great place to ride. Ginie is already talking about going to Phoenix next year so I may hit you up for a place to ride or where to rent a bike. It's Tucson this year for Thanksgiving and a ride with SDMB.

The only thing about Strawberry that I have on my list is Strawberry Mountain. Just time to go exploring I guess.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Ob1Hoagie said:


> It's actually a view from the Scottsdale preserve which has trails that are directly connected to McDowell Mtn park. You can look at online maps for the Scottsdale preserve, McDowell Mtn park and the Fountain Hills preserve and view all of the interconnected trails. Scottsdale is continually adding land to their preserve which is going north right into Tonto National forest.


We spend time in the Scottsdale area during late winter/spring. Have you ridden Brown's Ranch yet? I was mostly riding McD Mtn and Phx Preserve until this yr when someone told me about Brown's. Worth adding to your list of tracks to check out if haven't already.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I have Brown's Ranch on my list under Phoenix. I have heard that between McDowell Mountain, Scottsdale Preserve and Brown's Ranch there is over 100 miles of single track up there. I will never get that all done.


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

Interesting. I spent almost 3 years on sailboats, two of those years were on my own sloop. I preferred the South Pacific but that is a big step since you only really sail one way, with the wind. I'd love to hear how this works out.


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

3 years until I hang it up at 59.5 Palisade, western Colorado is where we live and where we'll stay. Lots of bike trails close here in the desert and the high country. Moab is 2 hours away. Bike 9 months of the year or more, ski our butt's off when we can't ride. hunt, fish, and live in a town with no stop lights. There's always New Zealand if winter gets too long.

I don't get the retire and die attitude, they must not have enough curiosity and creativity.


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## h82crash (Dec 24, 2009)

Yup, Durango is where I'm headed. Retiring in a year and happy. I bought a house there a couple of years ago and have been fixing it up. I won't be bored because there is still plenty of work to do on the property. For the last 20 years work has seriously gotten in the way of my projects. So, I'll be busy.

Travel the world? I know many disagree but traveling is way overrated (unless its to ride new trails). Been around the world and Like Dorothy said, "There's no place like home." We've arrived! Now what? I guess we eat.

What can I say about cruises?, Been on several. Food was good. Now what? 
I found I was always wishing I was home and cycling, improving my home, flying RC, driving my Cobra, restoring my Land Cruiser, playing guitar, cooking, spending time with friends. Did I mention cycling?

Yes, I think it's a good idea to include activities you like when deciding where to live. Hmm, Durango will shorten my Cobra driving season...Time for a fat bike.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Ha-ha...."top dining establishments"? That's comical. "Excellent bike shops"? Maybe talented, helpful employees but the "shops" are pathetic compared to a quality shop such as The Path or Bike Bling for starters. The best riding up there (by far) burned two years ago and will NEVER come back the way it was *per the guys at The Hub*.



Zachariah said:


> Idyllwild, CA(4600ft) has 40+ miles combined network of trails you can ride straight out of your front door, 300 days out of the year. Idyllwild has homes, starting at $25k to $450k. The riding locals consists of a 69-year-old singlespeeder, 86-year-old trail rider, a few CAT1 XC pros, a World-Class marathon racer and a bunch of bikepackers, mixed with a few trail enthusiasts. Two excellent bike shops are up there, who can do everything from fork, shock and suspension service....to alloy frame repair.
> 
> For a retired biker - Idyllwild is literally a Country Club: with top dining establishments, hiking, nearby lakes.....all in a Alpine environment. :thumbsup:


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm going to guess you're not retired eh since you couldn't be more wrong. Admittedly, as someone posted above, retirement means something different to everybody but I retired last December after 31 years in my profession. I've lost weight, ride or workout in some way (6) days a week, many times twice a day. In just 10 months, I've been on MTB trips to Oregon, Sedona, Durango, St George twice on top of vacations to Cancun, Cabo twice, Chicago and Texas. For 2016, I already have MTB trips planned for St George, Moab and Durango on top of rafting the Grand Canyon and house boating on Lake Powell. So much for sitting around and waiting to die.

As far as money, I have TRIPLE the money in my bank account now than I used to carry. it's all proper planning on going on trips with like minded folks to split the costs.



Zachariah said:


> LOL....the general premise of "Retirement" is grossly over-rated. Many folks feel just because they paid their dues, busting their asses off for 25-30 years.....they can finally relax and go sedentary, the remainder of their lives. The reality is - once you go sedentary...the weight piles on, the pains increase, new ailments come forward, etc. Next thing you know - you're blowing your entire retirement savings....just to remain alive comfortably. By sitting in front of a TV or movie screen, swinging a golf club, or going on weight gain excursions(ie: cruises), you're basically expediting "waiting to die." Many folks never grasp the "use it or lose it" concept of keeping physically active, for life.
> 
> My final days will be spent either working part-time, and staying as active as I am today....which includes lots of riding.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Travis Bickle said:


> If you are not enjoying retirement, you are doing it wrong.


Exactly!! Ride on!!!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I have family out in Bayfield so I'm there every year for 10-14 days. I bike every other day when I'm there and generally like the area but Durango is too over-run and built up for my tastes. Real estate is also pricey compared to many other areas people are mentioning. If Phil's World was in Durango instead of Cortez, I may change my mind 



cbrossman said:


> While it has been hinted at, I'm surprised Durango Colorado has not been mentioned directly.
> I too am biased because I live here, but there is great mountain and road biking, skiing, no interstate nearby, 6 brewpubs, a college, and access to more diverse locations than just about anywhere. In the winter. Moab is only 2.5 hours away, Sedona is only 5. And in the summer, we have some of the best high country riding in the state, just 30 minutes away.
> I don't know that there is anything particularly geared towards retired folks, but if you want a town of like minded, outdoor orientated folks of every age, it is certainly here.
> YMMV


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I checked out last December after 31 years in law enforcement. We live in North San Diego County and I can ride 350 days a year. As it is, I ride one form of bike, go to the gym or hike/walk (6) days a week. But it's crowded, traffic sucks, CA taxes are ridiculous and the political scene is turning into a Bernie Sanders nirvana. My wife has an awesome job with great pay and benefits which is what keeps us here...and content for now. Once she gets burned out, we're outta here. 

Between mountain biking and/or skiing/snowboarding, I've been all over the Western US including 90% of the places mentioned over these (4) pages. I have family in Durango, a kid in Boise, another in the Texas Hill Country. I ride in Utah, AZ and Oregon every year and every place has their pluses and minuses. When the time comes, I'll make some sort of chart to compare the places I'm interested in (and where my wife is willing to live). MTB riding, proximity to a decent ski resort are important and I will also factor in where the kids are currently stationed as they are both officers in the Army.


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

Very good. Fact is life can be awesome if you want it to be that way. Good job People!


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I love this thread! I am getting more good ideas on where I want to visit then I ever thought I could have. There are good trails everywhere. Maybe I won't ever stop being a gypsy. Specially now that my wife is buying into it.

One of the things I really like is that we all are a little different, but all really enjoy good trails what ever we as individuals think they are. Ride On Old Guys

My buddy from AZ suggested I look at Payson for some good places to ride. Hmmmmmm, sounds like a Google Challenge.

As far as the downer guy on retirement, sounds like he might not have planned ahead.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

We have friends that moved to Payson from North County San Diego 7-8 years ago and they love it. It's similar to the "wooded" ares of Prescott with very similar weather as well. Real estate prices are lower than Prescott but it's also more "secluded" which you may or may not like and your a long way from places like Costco which once again, may or may not be important to you.


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## 29er4ever (Jan 8, 2013)

k2rider1964 said:


> We have friends that moved to Payson from North County San Diego 7-8 years ago and they love it. It's similar to the "wooded" ares of Prescott with very similar weather as well. Real estate prices are lower than Prescott but it's also more "secluded" which you may or may not like and your a long way from places like Costco which once again, may or may not be important to you.


Are your friends in Payson bikers? I do like the area, but I find it surprisingly devoid of biking trails. It is closer to me than Prescott or Flagstaff when I want to get out of the Phoenix heat, but it doesn't have a lot of mountain biking trails. The geography and climate seem like they would be ideal, but the story I heard was that most of the decent trails got gobbled up by development. There are a few in-town trails that I think they want to continue to expand, and then a few things on the Mogollon rim, but living there I think I would have to develop some more outdoor hobbies.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

29er4ever said:


> Are your friends in Payson bikers? I do like the area, but I find it surprisingly devoid of biking trails. It is closer to me than Prescott or Flagstaff when I want to get out of the Phoenix heat, but it doesn't have a lot of mountain biking trails. The geography and climate seem like they would be ideal, but the story I heard was that most of the decent trails got gobbled up by development. There are a few in-town trails that I think they want to continue to expand, and then a few things on the Mogollon rim, but living there I think I would have to develop some more outdoor hobbies.


No, no riding for them. He is a pastor at one of the churches (Mountain Bible) up there. I'm trying to plan a trip out to Prescott with the Mrs so we can look at some land. I want to get something sooner rather than later because Prescott is only getting more and more popular. Worst case scenario, I can sell the lot later as prices have only be going up there for years and will continue to do so as people age and look to flee the Phoenix metropolis.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I do have to admit that my buddy who told me about Payson was not a biker when he lived there. He just liked the area. It is in close proximity to Pine and Strawberry which I believe have a few trails going for it.


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## PineyRose (Sep 30, 2015)

I retired from Proctor & Gamble in 2013 at age 58. They gave me the Trek 7.3 as a retirement gift so I started riding. I lost 42 pounds in the first 10 months. I bought the Specialized Jynx last February with part of my income tax refund because some of the places I ride around here are not compatible with the Trek. It also gave me more options of where I could ride.

I live in S.E. Tennessee in the foothills of The Great Smokey Mountains so I ride a lot of rolling hills. We have a 44-acre farm WAY back in the country so I have miles and miles of rolling country roads. If you can't ride hills, well, you can't ride here! There are some I still can't ride over but I have plenty of miles I can ride. I can also put a bike in the truck and head to the MUT in the next town if I want to ride easy.

This is the view from my front yard.


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## RIDESLOW (Dec 21, 2007)

Yeah , I was thinking on the No. Georgia Mtns. Near the border of Tn. and N.C.
How are the winters down there ?


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## PineyRose (Sep 30, 2015)

RIDESLOW said:


> Yeah , I was thinking on the No. Georgia Mtns. Near the border of Tn. and N.C.
> How are the winters down there ?


That would be really close to me. I'm between Knoxville and Chattanooga. Chattanooga has Enterprise South for paved and off-road trails. Knoxville has nice trails too.

Weather in winter here is mild, especially compared to other places. We don't have a lot of snow or ice and what we do get is gone in a day or two. Beware though, we can't drive in it worth a flip. Snow here is extremely wet. We are still in the 60's during the day right now but have had a few nights in the upper 20's and 30's. Most of our really cold weather, 0-32, is in January and February. We rarely go below zero. I ride all winter in a light hoodie type jacket, knit hat under the helmet, and gloves. Summers here are brutal with high sticky humidity but early mornings and late evenings are fine.

If you want to ride off-road trails they are plentiful, especially in our state parks. When I want to ride easy I go to the Cleveland Greenway in Cleveland TN since it's only 18 miles from me. It is 8-miles of riding/running/walking end to end (round trip) and has a lot of nature and wildlife.

Here is a link to Enterprise South in Chattanooga.

Enterprise South Nature Park - Map and Information


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Congrats on your somewhat recent retirement and newfound love of MTBing. Good for you...and beautiful country to live and ride in!


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## PineyRose (Sep 30, 2015)

OldGringo said:


> Congrats on your somewhat recent retirement and newfound love of MTBing. Good for you...and beautiful country to live and ride in!


Thanks! I am loving it. I have ridden off and on all my life for fun but the last 10-20 years I worked I didn't have time. I was working 12-hours a day on rotating shifts and work consumed my life. I have taken control of my life by retiring and have become very serious about my riding. I get seriously depressed if a day or two goes by that I'm not on the bike. I especially love the MTB since I can do anything and ride anywhere on it.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

PineyRose said:


> I have taken control of my life by retiring and have become very serious about my riding.


Words to live by...literally.


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## Slowdownhill (Oct 20, 2015)

Here I am, 20 minutes from DuPont State Forest and 20 minutes from Pisgah National Forest. DuPont is ready with 80 miles of trails/gravel roads for hikers, bikers and equestrians and Pisgah has more trails than I can ride in my lifetime. Numerous LBS and decent weather most of the time and I am home. Western North Carolina has been good to me. If I were somewhere else, I'd want to give this area a good look for retirement. This is as good as it gets, at least for me.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

No one has mentioned our proposed retirement location so I'm hoping we're the only ones that want to go there. Maybe home prices and property taxes will still be low by time we semi-retire in 7-10 years. 

It's small (which is fine with us) but has world class riding and is 30 minutes from a bigger city for medical care, shopping, and entertainment. 

It's a little hot in the summers but not as bad as many places and cooler temps and snow in the winter for skiing are only 45 minutes away. 

One of my favorite National Parks (actually one if my favorite places on earth that I've visited so far) is thirty minutes away, Lake Powell is only 100 miles way. I'm a Mormon so living close to a temple is important and I won't mind living amongst them (although I may be wrong about this part). 

I'm an optometrist and enjoy my work so when I sell my practice and "retire" I won't mind working a couple days a week for someone else if I get bored or need to supplement our income. 

Yes, we're thinking about lowly Hurricane, UT.

But first things first. When my son graduates from Optometry school in 2017 we want to take 2-3 months off and live/tour/ride in Europe. 

If I thought I could stand the wet weather and could figure out a way to stay in Canada full time as an American I'd love to live in Squamish BC too.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

KRob said:


> Yes, we're thinking about lowly Hurricane, UT.


I love the Hurricane (and surrounding) area. I've entertained the idea of buying a home there to use as a rental for several years. If I was single, I'd move there in a second so I could live cheaply and ride as much as possible. I'm totally okay with what the area has to offer as it has Over the Edge & Costco which is pretty much anybody needs. Las Vegas is only (2) hours away for extreme entertainment.

However, I'm not single and I do worry about "the Mormon equation". I have no issue with Mormons as where I grew up in SoCal, at least 50% of my friends were Mormon. That being said, I constantly read on the internet (and this board) about non-Mormon's having a hard time becoming part of the community as a whole. I hear the same thing about Boise so it's not just a Mormon thing. My wife is a very social person and I wouldn't want her feeling like an outsider wherever we decide to settle down.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Let me put in a good word for southern Oregon, specifically Ashland. We have been considering moving from CA to OR for a year or two and have been looking very closely at the Willamette Vally up north for its wine and woods. The abundance of rainy grey weather there caused us to look down by the CA/OR border instead.

Ashland is great biking town with lots of infrastructure and trails. It gets a bit warmer than the Willamette, but it is still a lot cooler than most all of CA. Land and homes are still a relative bargain for those who have ridden the CA property value escalator up. The town is full of craft beer pubs and great restaurants as well as being the home of Southern Oregon University and the Shakespeare Festival, which brings in the visitors to support all the pubs. No OR sales tax either.....


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

WoodlandHills said:


> Land and homes are still a relative bargain for those who have ridden the CA property value escalator up...


I also looked at Ashland (Maybe even Oakridge). So much fun riding in OR and weather is more mild and dry in Ashland and Medford than the coast. But you're right about relative bargains. I checked home prices in Ashland and quickly crossed it off my list as average homes were $300-400K which is a lot relative to where I'd be moving from. If you can sell your home in the Bay Area for $900K to 1m then that is a bargain. My 3200 sq foot home on 1/4 acre in rural Nevada OTOH will be lucky to go for $275-300K when I'm ready to sell.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> I love the Hurricane (and surrounding) area. I've entertained the idea of buying a home there to use as a rental for several years. If I was single, I'd move there in a second so I could live cheaply and ride as much as possible. I'm totally okay with what the area has to offer as it has Over the Edge & Costco which is pretty much anybody needs. Las Vegas is only (2) hours away for extreme entertainment.
> 
> However, I'm not single and I do worry about "the Mormon equation". I have no issue with Mormons as where I grew up in SoCal, at least 50% of my friends were Mormon. That being said, I constantly read on the internet (and this board) about non-Mormon's having a hard time becoming part of the community as a whole. I hear the same thing about Boise so it's not just a Mormon thing. My wife is a very social person and I wouldn't want her feeling like an outsider wherever we decide to settle down.


Not to turn this into a "can you live with Mormons" discussion, but I've lived in a town where I'm a minority as a Mormon all my life which I think I prefer, but I've heard some of these small Utah towns can be a bit cliquish and I also think Utah Mormons have their own "we're special" attitude sometimes. For the most part though I think we're a pretty friendly people.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

KRob said:


> For the most part though I think we're a pretty friendly people.


ABSOLUTELY agree with this statement and I've said many times that even though nobody is perfect and based on MY experiences "if everybody was Mormon, the world would be a much better place". Like I said, that cliquish behavior exists in many forms outside of Utah and outside of any particular religion. I only brought up the issue since you made a point in your OP about being Mormon and commented "I won't mind living amongst them".


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> However, I'm not single and I do worry about "the Mormon equation". I have no issue with Mormons as where I grew up in SoCal, at least 50% of my friends were Mormon. That being said, I constantly read on the internet (and this board) about non-Mormon's having a hard time becoming part of the community as a whole. I hear the same thing about Boise so it's not just a Mormon thing. My wife is a very social person and I wouldn't want her feeling like an outsider wherever we decide to settle down.


Consider Moab. Moab is one of only three municipalities in Utah in which the population is not majority Mormon (SLC and PC are the other two). In fact, the Mormons are pissed because Moab just became the first place in Utah with a government council (City Council, County Commission, etc.) that is not completely dominated by Mormons.

I have no problem with Mormons in general, the vast majority are great, but they are cliquish, for certain. Not a problem in Moab at this point, as there is a vibrant arts scene, festivals, beer, coffee, ethnic food, charter schools, etc. It really is Colorado without the weed. YMMV.

We are targeting Moab, but if something changes, there are many places in the four corners area I could deal with. Mancos, Montrose, Fruita, Flagstaff, Pagosa Springs, Dolores, even Monticello, although the Mormon influence still rules there.

I've thought about other parts of the country, but I can't find anywhere as outdoor friendly, great weather, small enough to ride to everything, and inexpensive enough to consider, while still having a live and let live attitude. Jeesus, I can't stand what Boulder and the rest of the Front Range have become. The government has no bounds, and no checks in Colorado, and they won't stop until they become even more whacked and controlling than California, in fact, Boulder itself is already there. I can't stand social engineering. Boulder is one big social engineering experiment, and mountain bikes are one of the key targets.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

honkinunit said:


> Consider Moab. Moab is one of only three municipalities in Utah in which the population is not majority Mormon (SLC and PC are the other two). In fact, the Mormons are pissed because Moab just became the first place in Utah with a government council (City Council, County Commission, etc.) that is not completely dominated by Mormons.
> 
> I have no problem with Mormons in general, the vast majority are great, but they are cliquish, for certain. Not a problem in Moab at this point, as there is a vibrant arts scene, festivals, beer, coffee, ethnic food, charter schools, etc. It really is Colorado without the weed. YMMV.
> 
> ...


No Moab in my future. I've vacationed there and will be going back next October but I couldn't live there year round. A little too desolate for me and I'm not a huge fan of the town itself. I like downtown Fruita and Palisade but not sure my wife would like that area. I like Pagosa alot during the Summer but we have family with acreage in Durango so we'll be there several months per year if necessary to escape heat wherever we end up. To be honest, I'm personally all over the map and the biggest reason is because I'm personally not too picky...give me a "smaller" town and a community that has paved streets with city water & sewer and I can find good stuff about it.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> No Moab in my future. I've vacationed there and will be going back next October but I couldn't live there year round. A little too desolate for me and I'm not a huge fan of the town itself. I like downtown Fruita and Palisade but not sure my wife would like that area. I like Pagosa alot during the Summer but we have family with acreage in Durango so we'll be there several months per year if necessary to escape heat wherever we end up. To be honest, I'm personally all over the map and the biggest reason is because I'm personally not too picky...give me a "smaller" town and a community that has paved streets with city water & sewer and I can find good stuff about it.


I'm pretty sure all of the streets in Moab are now paved. 

As for "desolate", the La Sals are 20 minutes away and are almost exactly like the San Juans. You can't get any better than the desert/mountains/water (mountain lakes,Colorado River, Lake Powell, other reservoirs) combination IMHO.

To each his own. Moab is starting down the path taken by a lot of other resort towns in some ways, and no one really wants that. But no one knows how to stop it, either. Thank God Moab is four hours from the nearest large city, or it would be another Vail by now.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

As for retirement plans, not for about another 10-11 years which is fine by me. I'm in no hurry, like what I do, and want to maximize my retirement benefits via longevity.

As to where, possibly south of NYS. We get taxed up the ass and the cold weather may be a bummer when I hit the age of 60 or so. North Carolina comes to mind; great riding down there both off and on the road.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

While I'm probably 10 years out for both financial (last kid in college next year) and life goals (though the job is taxing at the moment, I love it and want to keep doing it) I do know that the town we end up in will need to have a University or a legitimate 4-year college. I've spent my entire life in a college or University town and know I can't live without that atmosphere. Even a few days in some place without that particular form of energy makes me go dead inside. I have a lot of history and family ties in Durango and even my "non-academic" parents and siblings take advantage of Fort Lewis College offerings (sports to arts). I gave a research seminar at Fort Lewis once and there were a couple of old guys in the audience who weren't on the faculty -- they were retired chemists from industry who would just come to the weekly seminars to stay mentally engaged and drink beer with faculty and students afterwards. That'll be me in 10 years, but I will certainly have ridden there on a bike. And I have to be able to ski too. So, places like Durango, Laramie, Bozeman, Missoula and maybe Flagstaff (but AZ politics make WY seem progressive by comparison) top the list. Grand Junction maybe, but the skiing is too far away. Gunnison perhaps, but Wasted State might not be "real enough".


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

^^^^ keep it real...its the college girls.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

PeT said:


> Grand Junction maybe, but the skiing is too far away. Gunnison perhaps, but Wasted State might not be "real enough".


Living on the Front Range, I'd kill to have the skiing as close as they have it in Grand Junction. Powderhorn is actually pretty fun, and is less than an hour. Sunlight 1:45, Snowmass 2:15, Telluride 2:30. Hell, it often takes three hours each way to Summit County from Boulder, and then you are skiing with the hoards. Also, the XC skiing on Grand Mesa is awesome. I'm not sure Mesa State is any more "real" than Western though. As far as I'm concerned, the only real college towns in Colorado are Boulder and Ft. Collins, and Boulder is such a cluster you'd be a fool to retire here.

Gunnison is just too damn cold.


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## dimitrin (Nov 23, 2008)

Cool thread, alot of good ideas.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Arkansas.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

dimitrin said:


> Cool thread, alot of good ideas.
> I'm surprised no one has mentioned Arkansas.


Isn't that where Deliverance was filmed? Only kidding. I I spent some time in AR during college...had a couple friends from the Hot Springs area. I recall that part of the Ozarks being beautiful country & having a lot to offer. What's the MTBing like?


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I have liked what I read so far about Arkansas and I have dear friends in Heber Springs. I think the humidity is what would get me. I am looking forward to spending a lot of time around Hurricane, Price, Ceder City, etc. On account of Ginie and I playing gypsy for a couple of years at least we are looking for good camping for the trailer and a trailhead close by. That way I can ride off in the morning and come back and make us breakfast after a morning ride. Both Hurricane and Price of that in spades.

Never been to Moab, but with the 250,000 people that visit there every year, don't know if I could stand the population increase.

Maybe Stanley, ID. Population 67.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Slowdownhill said:


> Here I am, 20 minutes from DuPont State Forest and 20 minutes from Pisgah National Forest. DuPont is ready with 80 miles of trails/gravel roads for hikers, bikers and equestrians and Pisgah has more trails than I can ride in my lifetime. Numerous LBS and decent weather most of the time and I am home. Western North Carolina has been good to me. If I were somewhere else, I'd want to give this area a good look for retirement. This is as good as it gets, at least for me.


Heads up western NC MTBers...this doesn't sound good.

http://www.singletracks.com/blog/tr...h-carolina-are-being-evaluated-as-wilderness/


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

After fifteen years in Knoxville (Oak Ridge) I finally escaped the humidity and moved back West. I can appreciate the riding, I helped many trails in the area, but even though there's year round riding, the humidity makes the riding miserable six months of the year.

We looked in a lot of places, could have moved anywhere, chose a small town on the dry side of the Cascades. Wenatchee has a growing riding community, skiing fifteen minutes from town, hiking out my back door, housing prices are moderate, so much sunshine in the summers it's amazing, striking distance to Seattle riding, BC, etc... Low elevation means relatively warm winters, summers can be hot. I rarely see another rider on the trails.

There's no perfect place, if there are lots of trails, there are lots of riders, most places are either hot, cold, wet, or overpopulated. Wenatchee is like pre-Bend, but not as cold, better skiing, less isolated, and no bro culture.

If I had to choose differently, I'd look at GJ/Fruita or Durango, maybe Bend.

Oh, and those looking at the PNW, be very aware of the dark, it is waaaay more real than you can imagine, not for southerners, so be wary if you haven't lived here through a winter. I like the dry side of the Cascades, but you'd never get me to live in Bellingham or anywhere on the Puget Sound: wet, dark, cold.



PineyRose said:


> I retired from Proctor & Gamble in 2013 at age 58. They gave me the Trek 7.3 as a retirement gift so I started riding. I lost 42 pounds in the first 10 months. I bought the Specialized Jynx last February with part of my income tax refund because some of the places I ride around here are not compatible with the Trek. It also gave me more options of where I could ride.
> 
> I live in S.E. Tennessee in the foothills of The Great Smokey Mountains so I ride a lot of rolling hills. We have a 44-acre farm WAY back in the country so I have miles and miles of rolling country roads. If you can't ride hills, well, you can't ride here! There are some I still can't ride over but I have plenty of miles I can ride. I can also put a bike in the truck and head to the MUT in the next town if I want to ride easy.
> 
> ...


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## PineyRose (Sep 30, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> After fifteen years in Knoxville (Oak Ridge) I finally escaped the humidity and moved back West. I can appreciate the riding, I helped many trails in the area, but even though there's year round riding, the humidity makes the riding miserable six months of the year.


I can surely relate to that! We moved here from Pompano Beach Florida when I started high school. I swear summers here are hotter than they were in S. Florida. I don't ride well in the humidity. With my asthma it's almost impossible. When I ride in summer I'm out at the crack of dawn because by 9:00 or 10:00 it's miserable. I think that's why I started riding the MTB more. At least being back in the woods under the tree canopy and off the hot pavement makes it more bearable. I ride all winter though. It doesn't get too cold for me to ride as long as it's not wet and windy.

My sister left here about five years ago and moved to Colorado. She loves it! She said she doesn't think she could survive the heat back here anymore.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

KRob said:


> Yes, we're thinking about lowly Hurricane, UT.


Any town like that in the SW sounds like the best solution. Year round riding, within range of a whole lot more riding while still somewhat close to a WalMart (meaning that it isn't "that" remote) and hasn't become a "place to be," like Prescott or something similar with a retirement-unfriendly cost of living.

Even bigger cities in the SW are a pretty good choice with the added convenience of more services and the ability to dodge the crowds by riding popular spots during the week.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ashland is a nice area, kinda touristy, central to water, mountain, sea, snow, we considered it but work opportunities are limited; unlike some folks, retiring for me is more of a taper, more play and less work. I like working, my work feels good and gives me a greater purpose.

If I stopped working as an NP, I'd like a job building trails, not the political stuff, just the diggjng and teaching.

It's interesting the various plans and perspectives, some want travel, some want a home, some want exotic climes.

The FR is over, it's not the place to be, hasn't been healthy for years, I'd sooner deal with Seattle where rain washes things clean and Canada is just a hop away.

No one has mentioned Spokane, it's not my cup of tea being a city and all, but the surrounding area has the goods, not too extreme weather.



WoodlandHills said:


> Let me put in a good word for southern Oregon, specifically Ashland. We have been considering moving from CA to OR for a year or two and have been looking very closely at the Willamette Vally up north for its wine and woods. The abundance of rainy grey weather there caused us to look down by
> 
> Ashland is great biking town with lots of infrastructure and trails. It gets a bit warmer than the Willamette, but it is still a lot cooler than most all of CA. Land and homes are still a relative bargain for those who have ridden the CA property value escalator up. The town is full of craft beer pubs and great restaurants as well as being the home of Southern Oregon University and the Shakespeare Festival, which brings in the visitors to support all the pubs. No OR sales tax either.....


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^richde- Good point about the SW, no cold, dark, wet, long winter. You can live in full blown prickly desert or in a mountain meadow, depending on your preference. I have four seasons, including a flirting bit of xc skiable snow, but the weather here makes north mid-westerners snicker. Just a month or two of mild winter, a long delicious spring and fall, a "hot" month or two in summer but no need for ac, with few insects. Pick your preferred altitude, landscape, population density, other interests, etc. I like the high deserts with mountain ranges interspersed, because of the quality of light and the variety dramatic landscapes within my vicinity. I really don't need anything more than my beat up '93 ranger pickup to haul my much more valuable bikes to Moab or Sedona or SanteFe or Tucson or Durango or Flagstaff. I like that, and going to Shalako at Zuni Pueblo, or skiing a mountain meadow at midnight under a shimmering canopy of stars.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Just checked in with a realtor today in Prescott to go check out some land around town. We won't be moving for several years as my wife has too good of a job to walk away from.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

k2rider1964 said:


> Just checked in with a realtor today in Prescott to go check out some land around town. We won't be moving for several years as my wife has too good of a job to walk away from.


Everything that I have read about Prescott has been good. And they have a great online biking "vibe". I mean like, who can't love a bike club that says; yeah we can give you a map but drop us an email and we'll go riding with ya.


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Totally correct, Bellingham sucks!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

SlimL said:


> Everything that I have read about Prescott has been good. And they have a great online biking "vibe". I mean like, who can't love a bike club that says; yeah we can give you a map but drop us an email and we'll go riding with ya.


Like somebody mentioned above, the housing prices in Prescott seem to be on the high side if you ask me. It's frequently on "best places to retire" lists plus I presume more & more Californians are cashing out and moving there for the favorable weather patterns. The realtor I was speaking with today said that people he speaks with frequently have Bend, Coeur d'Alene and Durango on their retirement location list.


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## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

Like someone earlier mentioned the SW has one thing that not much of the country has, and that is the ability to live in the mountains but still be able to drive 90min or less for year around riding. I lived in Flagstaff for 20+ years, and if the sun is shining, you can generally drive 90 min or less to get to some riding. I now have lived in Bend about 13 years, great riding here, but I sure miss having winter options. 

I'm about three years from retirement, at one time I thought about staying in Bend but now that we are firmly in winter again I find myself thinking more about the SW.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

Jing said:


> Like someone earlier mentioned the SW has one thing that not much of the country has, and that is the ability to live in the mountains but still be able to drive 90min or less for year around riding. I lived in Flagstaff for 20+ years, and if the sun is shining, you can generally drive 90 min or less to get to some riding. I now have lived in Bend about 13 years, great riding here, but I sure miss having winter options.
> 
> I'm about three years from retirement, at one time I thought about staying in Bend but now that we are firmly in winter again I find myself thinking more about the SW.


Or you can live where winter never gets worse than late fall/early spring and drive to the snow at higher elevations.

Here in Las Vegas, I haven't seen snow that lasted more than a day or two in the five years I've lived here. Hurricane gets a little more, but not much. I was up there in the first week of January this year riding in a short sleeved jersey.

OTOH, the ski resort 45 minutes away at Mt. Charleston is currently open and I was riding in snow at ~8000ft two weeks ago.


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## Mikecito (Jun 2, 2007)

Crankyone said:


> Totally correct, Bellingham sucks!


If you like warmer/dryer year round riding that leans XC instead of AM, then yes it does. It's really nice here, but I want to retire somewhere warmer. The older I get, the more the climate in the pnw gets me down. Ymmv.


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## JokerSC (Nov 5, 2011)

Retirement? Whats that?


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## Guest (Dec 21, 2015)

JokerSC said:


> Retirement? Whats that?


 It's that thing everyone looks forward to because they think they'll be happier even though they didn't save up for it.


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> Ashland is a nice area, kinda touristy, central to water, mountain, sea, snow, we considered it but work opportunities are limited; unlike some folks, retiring for me is more of a taper, more play and less work. I like working, my work feels good and gives me a greater purpose.
> 
> If I stopped working as an NP, I'd like a job building trails, not the political stuff, just the diggjng and teaching.
> 
> ...


Ben, I'm not aware of problems with the FR, can you say a little more? Are you talking about the fires/polluted rivers?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

Oops, I see where you all answered this a few months back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

JokerSC said:


> Retirement? Whats that?


1 Year, 6 Months, & 6 Days. And yes I have been saving for it all my life.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

sisu said:


> Ben, I'm not aware of problems with the FR, can you say a little more? Are you talking about the fires/polluted rivers?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Not the guy you are addressing, but I'll jump in. The Front Range has jumped the shark for a lot of people at this point, especially as a retirement destination.

As far as pollution goes, when I moved here in the 80's air pollution was much worse than today, it got a lot better until about five years ago, now it is getting bad again. What is different now is that it is much more widespread. 20 years ago you didn't see a brown cloud north of Denver, now it is worse up there on some days than it is down in the city. A combination of growth, traffic, and oil and gas production. Hell, even Wyoming exceeds ozone levels now. The only way to escape it is to live above it, 6500 feet or higher.

Water is another issue, not pollution but quantity. The Front Range is all teed up for a water crisis that will dwarf the one in California. We came within a year of major reservoirs going completely dry back in the last drought (2001-2003), and there were a million fewer people on the Front Range then. The next drought is going to be a real wakeup call, but until then, they keep building and building. An article the other day said Colorado added 100,000 people last year, most right here on the Front Range. They just produced a "water plan" that does absolutely nothing to address the real issues. One day, the crap will hit the fan, and the impacts will go far beyond not being able to water your lawn. Douglas County south of Denver is the place that will really hurt someday. The get a lot of their water from a shrinking aquifer, and when that goes dry, there is no unallocated surface water to bail them out. It is going to be ugly, folks. Google up the situation in Sao Paulo, and that place is in a freaking tropical rain forest area! As Brazil's Largest City Struggles With Drought, Residents Are Leaving : Parallels : NPR

Meanwhile, the traffic is getting terrible, the rents and housing costs are skyrocketing, and the same urban issues that places like Dallas, Atlanta and Phoenix have dealt with for years are ramping up here.

I would not retire here. I will be leaving as soon as I retire.


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

I didn't dig through the whole thread, but some comments.
Auburn is a good idea
Idyllwild comments are generally accurate, but it's a small town, kind of an island really, kind of like Big Bear. You could live/ride year round on the lower slopes of Big Bear. Don't go too low. Smogtown and oppressive heat.
If you can afford it, riding/living is fantastic in Mendocino. I suppose you could head East into Ukiah too.

Santa Rosa and places North is more like a super-suburb for San Francisco. Lots of idle rich gambling and losing on wine up there. It makes living up there expensive.
You could go far Northern California against one of the mountain ranges and find great riding/people.

I have non-LDS relatives living in Utah. My experience has been, outside of downtown Salt Lake City, the church is everywhere. That's not a bad thing. It's just, unless you are a church member, it can be a little lonely. The higher elevations of Southern Utah might be worth checking out.
http://extension.usu.edu/juab/ou-files/ez-plug/uploads/FCS/Utah_Altitude_Chart_by_City.pdf
The communities in Utah have lots of active people in them. IMO, way above average.


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## rhale (Aug 15, 2010)

Southern Utah is great. We moved here from SoCal about 11 yrs ago. Non-LDS and haven't had any real issues at all. Very active biking community here. Lots of world class trails and more planned around the area. Our kids are active on the High School MTB race team here and Utah has the largest involvement of any state in the nation, last year over 1000+ racers across the state so lots of volunteer opportunities if that's your thing. Lots of retirees in this area. The main community (Sun River) is all golf driven. We have two small nice reservoirs in the area that are big enough to ski/wakeboard on. Powell is 2 1/2 hrs away, Vegas 1 1/2 hr away. Local airport with flights to Salt Lake and Denver. You can drive to LA in about 5hrs. Very low key community in regards to nightlife (there is none), small college here as well Dixie State University. If you're into skiing then 1 1/2 hrs north above Cedar City is BrianHead Ski Resort that's really nice, or 30 min past that is Eagle Point Ski Resort.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

RHale, are you south of St George? I see the golf course there on Googles map. I am looking forward to spending a lot of time down in that area. A little north is Cedar City which IMBA is touting as the next big thing. Hurricane and Gooseberry Mesa; man, the options and opportunities are endless.


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## rhale (Aug 15, 2010)

SlimL said:


> RHale, are you south of St George? I see the golf course there on Googles map. I am looking forward to spending a lot of time down in that area. A little north is Cedar City which IMBA is touting as the next big thing. Hurricane and Gooseberry Mesa; man, the options and opportunities are endless.


I'm in St George. Cedar is 44 miles north of us. I have heard that new trails are going in around the Cedar area as well as east of St George in Kanab. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 miles of singletrack! The beauty of St George is we get the best weather(very little to no snow, not as much wind, etc) when compared to Cedar City. St George is growing at a steady pace and expected to hit 500K in 2050, its around 120K now. Cost of living is more than Cedar, but we also have more amenities like a mall (albeit small) and Costco more restaurants.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I am assuming with a place that size that medical services would be decent too. My wife has mobility issues that some times require a doctor's help. Our doctor here said the safest thing to do when traveling is to make the acquaintance of a local doctor where ever you go.


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## sisu (Sep 16, 2006)

Cliff Notes on this topic so far:

Midwest: not on the radar
Upper Midwest: ditto
NE: would be nice (VT/NH/ME) but unaffordable for most and cold winters
CA: unaffordable for most
CO: FR is a POS, possibly western CO. Cold winters
South: if you can handle humidity
AK: not on the radar
PNW: depends. Can you handle dreary wx?
SW: many options. Sunny.
Utah: Mormons. Affordable other than SLC and PC.


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## rhale (Aug 15, 2010)

SlimL said:


> I am assuming with a place that size that medical services would be decent too. My wife has mobility issues that some times require a doctor's help. Our doctor here said the safest thing to do when traveling is to make the acquaintance of a local doctor where ever you go.


Yes. Intermountain Healthcare has a very nice hospital here. Lots a good local docs as well. My wife and I are both Chiropractors in private practice here and have met most of the local Docs. The hospital is rated as high as it can go without the affiliation of a 4yr university. They also just announced they're doubling the size over the next few years.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Outstanding! I have a great chiro here in Seatac so it's nice to know another one. I can't wait to get down in that area for good.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Crankyone said:


> Totally correct, Bellingham sucks!


Bellingham has some good trails and it's near the Sound and Vancouver Island/BC, admittedly it's quite lovely when it's sunny and dry, but I can't do the rain and dark anymore. It also a little bit touristy and it has more than it's fair share of people "moving through".

We could have moved anywhere in the USA or CAN, we only looked west of the "humidity line": Durango, ABQ/SF, Flagstaff, Logan, Boise, Bend, PA/PT, Bellignham, Corvallis, Mt Shasta, Humboldt, but chose Wenatchee Washington. We wanted a small town with minimal amenties (coffee shops, yoga, Thai), it needed to be a "lived in place" where families are raised and the parks are full of kids, and we wanted to be closish to the ocean.

I'm at work now (only fifty, not ready to retire quite yet) looking out the window at the Cascade Foothills rising up from Wenatchee (elevation 980'), snow covered (12-18"). but this much snow is rare in town, it'll melt off in the next couple weeks.








Every day at lunch I drive across town (7-8 minutes depending on traffic), I hike out my back door onto the Saddle Rock reserve (protected by the Foothills Association), my dogs run free and no one cares. 
=> I live at the base of the cliff band, on the far right of this picture ^

Today after work I'm going to pack snow trails and ride fat bike at Squilchick State Park (ten minutes from town).








This weekend I'll put in some laps at Mission Ridge (elev. 6850, 2000+ac, season pass $275), located a scant fifteen minutes from town. https://missionridge.com/about-mission-ridge

Next weekend I'll drive over to Seattle, drop my wife at the airport, then ride some stuff around Seattle; there are a few decent trails over there 
https://www.evergreenmtb.org/

Nearby:
Columbia Cascade Wine Region: Guide to Columbia Cascade Wineries near Wenatchee & Leavenworth, WA
Wenathee is the Apple Capital of the World, and the central fruit growing area for WA
Colombia River: Runs through town, paddle boarding, skull, kayak.
Sage Hills, Castle Rock, Saddle Rock Multiuse Trails: Ride/hike from town
Twin Peaks Trail System (under development): Ride from town or drive ten minutes.
Squilchuck State Park Trail system (under development): 10 minutes
Mission Ridge Ski Resort, trail system, BC access: 15 minutes
Cashmere Trail System (Red Hill): 20 minutes
Leavenworth WW paddling, XC skiing/snowbiking, mtb trail riding: 20 minutes
Ancient Lakes Trail System (year round mtb riding): 45 minutes
Stevens Pass Ski Area: 1 hour
Snoqualamie Pass Ski Area: 1.5 hours
Winthrop WA (largest XC area in NA): 2 hours
Spokane: 2.5 hours 
Seattle/Puget Sound: 3 hours
Bellingham WA; 3.5 hours
Vancoubvcer Island: 4 hours
Vancouver BC; 4.5 hours
Portland OR: 5 hours

The best part of being in Wenatchee is that I can stay working as long as I want (health care jobs rock), I can ease into retirement as I see fit, I can enjoy the localities listed above ^^, no traffic, no high cost of living, no competition for recreational resources, and no cold/wet weather.

...and no bro culture!

Ancient Lakes:








Twin Peaks:








Leavenworth, Icicle Creek, Fourth of July Trail:








Summer Riding at Mission Ridge (Clara Lakes)


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

sisu said:


> Cliff Notes on this topic so far:
> 
> Midwest: not on the radar
> Upper Midwest: ditto
> ...


If you are really into being different from everyone else, there are some really nice areas of Southern Illinois/Western Kentucky/SE Missouri that have trails, fishing, hunting, etc, and you can buy a pretty decent house for $25,000 in some smaller towns, at least in So. Ill. I'm not kidding. A real house, not a trailer. Or, you can get killer acreage with a pond of your own, and your own awesome hardwood forest for less than a condo in St. George.

Yes, it is humid in the summer, but winters aren't terrible. A/C was invented for the midwest and southeast, it is how people survive there.

Of course, you have to want to live there. No cultural amenities to speak of other than traveling to St. Louis or maybe what is at SIU in Carbondale, and there are almost no jobs at all. But if you just want to be on your own and outside most of the time, it is one of the few places left that an average middle income person can retire gracefully. You have to be careful about property taxes, but IL does have a few homestead exemption provisions, I don't know about KY or MO.

There are some good trails in Shawnee National Forest and around Kentucky Lake, I'm sure there are a lot of unpublished rides in that part of the country, too. It is very isolated and unknown.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

honkinunit said:


> No cultural amenities to speak of other than traveling to St. Louis or maybe what is at SIU in Carbondale, and there are almost no jobs at all. But if you just want to be on your own and outside most of the time, it is one of the few places left that an average middle income person can retire gracefully. You have to be careful about property taxes, but IL does have a few homestead exemption provisions, I don't know about KY or MO.
> 
> Of course, you have to want to live there.


Sounds like a great place to retire if you like to live deep in the woods.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> Sounds like a great place to retire if you like to live deep in the woods.


The strip from SW Indiana through So. Ill to SE Missouri and down to NW Kentucky is some of the least populated wooded country in the US. It gets no recognition because it does have a name.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

500K people or an average home price of 500K by 2050? If St George ever has 500K people, it's going to be as bad as LA because traffic already sucks in that city once you get off the freeway.



rhale said:


> I'm in St George. Cedar is 44 miles north of us. I have heard that new trails are going in around the Cedar area as well as east of St George in Kanab. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 100 miles of singletrack! The beauty of St George is we get the best weather(very little to no snow, not as much wind, etc) when compared to Cedar City. St George is growing at a steady pace and expected to hit 500K in 2050, its around 120K now. Cost of living is more than Cedar, but we also have more amenities like a mall (albeit small) and Costco more restaurants.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> 500K people or an average home price of 500K by 2050? If St George ever has 500K people, it's going to be as bad as LA because traffic already sucks in that city once you get off the freeway.


There is 150,000 people in the St George SMSA, it could easilly go 500k in 35 years, not sure what they're gonna drink, perhaps they will be recycling water by then.

I'm just wondering if we can find work on Cedar City now, then just stay there...

First, the kids gotta decide where they're going to settle 

In the meantime, Wenatchee is not too bad.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

I will be retiring in 9 more months, We moved into our ACTIVE retirement community 5 years ago, Park City. We had moved from San Diego to the Salt Lake valley in 2003, but spent so much of our time in P.C. that we moved here. We actually live in the county outside of town but we still ride out the back door or catch the free bus to the resort trailheads and then ride there and back to the house. You have to like snow but the number of activities there are here are amazing. We ride Fat Bikes, ski and xc ski. There are lots of volunteer opportunities as well to keep you busy year round. The saying here is "my garage is my trailhead" and it really is true. Housing prices are high, but nothing like California. It is a resort town and we prefer to stay away from the center of town when it gets busy, but it has all the amenities you need.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

We have a condo in Park City and even though I never planned to move into the condo full time, I look at houses in the area every now and then. The problem now is I think I've decided I don't want to love in an area where snow is on the ground for months at a time....and no, riding a fat bike doesn't equate to *mountain biking* for me. The other huge problem for Park City is they screwed the pooch years ago when they chose to ditch the "mining town" vibe and went all "trendy" instead. Downtown now sucks all the the time and not just when it's crowded.



mactweek said:


> I will be retiring in 9 more months, We moved into our ACTIVE retirement community 5 years ago, Park City. We had moved from San Diego to the Salt Lake valley in 2003, but spent so much of our time in P.C. that we moved here. We actually live in the county outside of town but we still ride out the back door or catch the free bus to the resort trailheads and then ride there and back to the house. You have to like snow but the number of activities there are here are amazing. We ride Fat Bikes, ski and xc ski. There are lots of volunteer opportunities as well to keep you busy year round. The saying here is "my garage is my trailhead" and it really is true. Housing prices are high, but nothing like California. It is a resort town and we prefer to stay away from the center of town when it gets busy, but it has all the amenities you need.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The snow on the ground thing is rough, I went twenty years between living in snow zones, now that I'm back it seems a lot more harsh and humbling than it did in my youth.

Retirement for me will be warm, sunny, and dry.



k2rider1964 said:


> We have a condo in Park City and even though I never planned to move into the condo full time, I look at houses in the area every now and then. The problem now is I think I've decided I don't want to love in an area where snow is on the ground for months at a time....and no, riding a fat bike doesn't equate to *mountain biking* for me. The other huge problem for Park City is they screwed the pooch years ago when they chose to ditch the "mining town" vibe and went all "trendy" instead. Downtown now sucks all the the time and not just when it's crowded.


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## [email protected] (Apr 21, 2012)

My husband and I looked for something bordering DuPont but settled for a small cabin in Dunns Rock. Practicing retirement with long weekends and telecommuting. Got "hooked" on Tenkara fishing - now the rods go with us when we hike and bike. Love our little dog-friendly affordable par 3 course for chasing a little white ball.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeah, that's my plan as well though living in SoCal, we've had truly great weather our entire lives. The politics and traffic on the other hand are deal breakers for me and I want better access to limitless outdoor options. We have pockets of trails here between the masses of homes but you have to drive 60+ miles to get in an area where you can ride a "legitimate" 20-25 mile loop. We're going to look at Prescott next month and while I think I can live in Southern Utah (Hurricane, Santa Clara), my wife may not agree. Tucson and PHX aren't off the table because my wife's Dad lives in Durango and has (2) houses on 40 acres where we could (WOULD!!) go during the scorching Summer months.

The reality is I have no idea where we'll end up since I'm open to so many options (Hurricane, Fruita, Prescott, etc...) and get excited about new places all the time. I was set on Bend, Oregon after a trip there in 2013 but after spending a week there this Summer, I was put off by the traffic, crowds and all the trendy/foo-foo restaurants. Areas around Flathead Lake in Montana look enticing too...except for the months of extended snow cover. I could get excited about buying snowmobiles though.



Nurse Ben said:


> The snow on the ground thing is rough, I went twenty years between living in snow zones, now that I'm back it seems a lot more harsh and humbling than it did in my youth.
> 
> Retirement for me will be warm, sunny, and dry.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> ... I was set on Bend, Oregon after a trip there in 2013 but after spending a week there this Summer, I was put off by the traffic, crowds and all the trendy/foo-foo restaurants. Areas around Flathead Lake in Montana look enticing too...except for the months of extended snow cover. I could get excited about buying snowmobiles though.


Bend is trendy, lots of bros, many second homes, cold and dark in the Winter (typical PNW), lots of company on the trails during high season.

It's hard to find perfect unless you got a hot tub time machine, cuz the very best place to live and ride is expensive and crowded (California).

Fruita/GJ are on my top five list, it can get pretty hot and it does get cold /snow , but then Wenatchee is not exactly cool in the summer.

I think you hit on a key component: finding a place that has proximity to places where you can cool off/warm up/dry out. Even though Wenatchee is snowed in now, I can drive to Seattle and get some warm on; that's the plan on Sunday (Tiger Mountain).

The problem with Bend and GJ/Fruita is their isolation. I don't want to drive hours to have fun, the whole point of retiring in one place is to have fun in that place.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> The snow on the ground thing is rough, I went twenty years between living in snow zones, now that I'm back it seems a lot more harsh and humbling than it did in my youth.
> 
> Retirement for me will be warm, sunny, and dry.


Then you're looking at AZ, maybe NV. I'm with you on that as well as my tolerance for heat and humidity is gone. I have looked at Albuquerque and while it ticks many of my boxes, there is something that I can't put my finger on that keeps me searching.
My current short list iincludes Tucson, Sedona, and that "other place" nobody knows about (including me)!


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Tucson is ridiculously hot in summer and it is not getting any cooler. The winters are nice, but the town fills up with snowbirds then and the terrible traffic gets worse. My wife and I met while living there in the 70's and 80's and my mother is still in care there so I am in and out of town often. We also had a second home there from 2005 to 2010. Like a lot of places it used to be a lot nicer a few years ago.......

Our call is Oregon for most of the year, either the Willamette or Rogue valleys. If the Grey Months get us down we know we can rent a 3bd/2ba home in Loreto, Baja California for $600 to $1000 a month. It's a very tidy, quiet little town with lots of expats and well off the beaten path.

Now we have to decide between Ashland, McMinnville or Corvallis.......


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## idinomac (Apr 5, 2009)

k2rider1964 said:


> I checked out last December after 31 years in law enforcement. We live in North San Diego County and I can ride 350 days a year. As it is, I ride one form of bike, go to the gym or hike/walk (6) days a week. But it's crowded, traffic sucks, CA taxes are ridiculous and the political scene is turning into a Bernie Sanders nirvana. My wife has an awesome job with great pay and benefits which is what keeps us here...and content for now. Once she gets burned out, we're outta here.
> 
> Between mountain biking and/or skiing/snowboarding, I've been all over the Western US including 90% of the places mentioned over these (4) pages. I have family in Durango, a kid in Boise, another in the Texas Hill Country. I ride in Utah, AZ and Oregon every year and every place has their pluses and minuses. When the time comes, I'll make some sort of chart to compare the places I'm interested in (and where my wife is willing to live). MTB riding, proximity to a decent ski resort are important and I will also factor in where the kids are currently stationed as they are both officers in the Army.


My brother just retired from Riverside Sheriff's Department after 30 years and California isn't good to it's retirees.

I'm retired from the Operating Engineers and I lived all over southern California and I got out awhile before I retired and made a move to Minnesota and I'll tell you we have that same type of BS mind set here as well, I can live with it because we're way up north but we're done with all the crazy cold weather, we have fat bikes but we are sick and tired of putting on all the clothes.

We are looking at moving to Ocala Florida or The Village in Ocala. We also have a nice travel trailer and we can get out of Florida in the Summer months.


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

Our requirements are:

1) Warm, but not oppressive summers. 85 degrees max
2) Low humidity. Mostly sunny days.
3) Not too much snow in the winters. Short drive to great skiing.
4) Small town, but not touristy. The type where people raise their families.
5) Mountain biking trails that I can ride to from my driveway.
6) Plenty of other outside activities. (Kayaking, hiking, concerts).
7) Beautiful scenery.

This is where we will retire. Bought the land last year. Hoping to build in a few years.

Official Eagle Colorado Adventure Guide | EagleOutside.com

.


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

camp10 said:


> Our requirements are:
> 
> 1) Warm, but not oppressive summers. 85 degrees max
> 2) Low humidity. Mostly sunny days.
> ...


Nice list, good choice. Similar to what brought us to Durango 15 years ago.
We have also found that it is wonderful living far from an interstate. If you are in Durango, it is on purpose!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nice....except for the average lows of 22, 12, 10.5 and 17 degrees between November and February. No thanks. Bundling up in several layers of clothing to ride is not my idea of fun. It's one of the reasons I don't miss my dirt bike.



camp10 said:


> Our requirements are:
> 
> 1) Warm, but not oppressive summers. 85 degrees max
> 2) Low humidity. Mostly sunny days.
> ...


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## ConchoBill (Jan 12, 2015)

I am 63 and will retire in about 1 year at 64. We plan to stay where we are which is in the hot Heart of Texas (and I'm not kidding about the heart of Texas, we live in the middle of the State, called West Texas). I will still be ranching and plan to ranch until 80 unless a cow kills me before then. The ranch is a good place for mountain biking and we have the San Angelo State Park which has great trails nearby.


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

Yeah, but the average highs are 44, 32,32 ,38. Might sound cold to many, but that's balmy to us that have lived our whole lives in the MN/WI area!



k2rider1964 said:


> Nice....except for the average lows of 22, 12, 10.5 and 17 degrees between November and February. No thanks. Bundling up in several layers of clothing to ride is not my idea of fun. It's one of the reasons I don't miss my dirt bike.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

camp10 said:


> Yeah, but the average highs are 44, 32,32 ,38. Might sound cold to many, but that's balmy to us that have lived our whole lives in the MN/WI area!


Having lived in nw Iowa, I totally agree. The Four Corners region has as fine a weather as I've seen, all the options but mostly sunny. Really crappy weather is celebrated as a novelty, as a reason to be out in it, just to experience it.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

camp10 said:


> Our requirements are:
> 
> 1) Warm, but not oppressive summers. 85 degrees max
> 2) Low humidity. Mostly sunny days.
> ...


I wonder how much snow they do get at 6600 ft elevation. Isn't that the elevation of Eagle?


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> Nice....except for the average lows of 22, 12, 10.5 and 17 degrees between November and February. No thanks. Bundling up in several layers of clothing to ride is not my idea of fun. It's one of the reasons I don't miss my dirt bike.


Temps in CO vary radically by elevation and location in the state. From Eagle you can be in Grand Junction in two hours with temps 20 degrees warmer, or 1:30 to Leadville with temps 20-30 degrees cooler.

Eagle sits in a valley and doesn't get a lot of snow. About the same as Denver I would guess.

I personally like Rifle (45 minutes west) better than Eagle, but to each his own. Rifle is warmer, cheaper and less touristy. Eagle is closer to Denver and has its own airport (the Vail airport is actually in Eagle).


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## Captain Ron (Jan 10, 2016)

I retired to the mountains of Western Honduras. My pension goes a long way, and every road is a nice dirt road...perfect for biking through great scenery.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Any other comments on Tucson from residents? I know it's grown, as most "desirable" locales have, and it's hot in the summer, but what else? What is the MTB and road biking scene like?


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Simplemind said:


> Any other comments on Tucson from residents? I know it's grown, as most "desirable" locales have, and it's hot in the summer, but what else? What is the MTB and road biking scene like?


Try checking out Mountain Biking Tucson - Tucson MTB - alot of good info when I looked and I presume most of them are locals


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

And check out the Sonoran Desert Mountain Bikers and Southern Arizona Mountain Bike Association for more info on Tucson. They have over 600 miles of bike paths and more triathletes train in Tucson then anywhere else. The one down side that I would say about Tucson is that it is so spread out that it takes at least 45 minutes to get anywhere. Tucson Mountain Park and Sweetwater Trails is another one. I spent 3 hours wandering around Fantasy Island and still didn't see all of it. Yeah, I am pretty sold on Tucson. Ginie and I went down twice last year.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

k2rider1964 said:


> Try checking out Mountain Biking Tucson - Tucson MTB - alot of good info when I looked and I presume most of them are locals





SlimL said:


> And check out the Sonoran Desert Mountain Bikers and Southern Arizona Mountain Bike Association for more info on Tucson. They have over 600 miles of bike paths and more triathletes train in Tucson then anywhere else. The one down side that I would say about Tucson is that it is so spread out that it takes at least 45 minutes to get anywhere. Tucson Mountain Park and Sweetwater Trails is another one. I spent 3 hours wandering around Fantasy Island and still didn't see all of it. Yeah, I am pretty sold on Tucson. Ginie and I went down twice last year.


Thanks guys, since it's "spread out", any idea of the _better parts_ to live in?


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Simplemind said:


> Thanks guys, since it's "spread out", any idea of the _better parts_ to live in?


Here's another great source of info. Be careful, it's addictive.

Tucson Forum - Relocation, Moving, General and Local City Discussions - City-Data Forum


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

honkinunit said:


> Eagle sits in a valley and doesn't get a lot of snow. About the same as Denver I would guess.
> 
> I personally like Rifle (45 minutes west) better than Eagle, but to each his own. Rifle is warmer, cheaper and less touristy. Eagle is closer to Denver and has its own airport (the Vail airport is actually in Eagle).


Correct, Eagle gets about 60 inches of snow per year, similar to Denver.

Rifle is very nice. We've stopped there on trips to Moab/Grand Junction.

But what drew us to Eagle was the emphasis on mountain biking. There is a trail that runs behind the lot that we bought. It connects to 50 or 60 miles of beautiful trails. Heck, there is even singletrack that runs along the sidewalks, so that the kids can ride trails to school.

We also like the quick and easy access to alpine hiking. It's just a short drive up Brush Creek Road to many trailheads in the Sawatch Range.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Simplemind said:


> Thanks guys, since it's "spread out", any idea of the _better parts_ to live in?


I personally like the north side of town. Towards the west. The east side is great to with good access to Coronado National Forest. But it all depends what you want. Take a trip down and check it out. It would be time well spent.


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

sisu said:


> Cliff Notes on this topic so far:
> 
> Midwest: not on the radar
> Upper Midwest: ditto
> ...


For California, maybe consider points North and East?

The problem with the SW is the heat. It's relatively easy to stand around in it, but climbing in it is TOUGH. It's like that for months. I guess if you are retired, you can just hit it whenever.

What works for Utah is the Mormons are quite active. In one sense, it can be lonely and there's quirky stuff in local law, in another, lots of others as interested in athletic stuff.

I'm not disagreeing at all. Just trying to stay open to places.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

asphalt_jesus said:


> The problem with the SW is the heat. It's relatively easy to stand around in it, but climbing in it is TOUGH. It's like that for months. I guess if you are retired, you can just hit it whenever.......


The people that I have talked to that live down there say they either get up before daylight or do a lot of night rides. But I don't know if that would help when some places don't get below 90 degrees at night.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

SlimL said:


> The people that I have talked to that live down there say they either get up before daylight or do a lot of night rides. But I don't know if that would help when some places don't get below 90 degrees at night.


Just get acclimated to the heat and adapt to it, because it's really not that bad, even here in Las Vegas.

From June until Sept just pace yourself, drink tons of water and don't plan on any epic rides much longer than 3 hours. Then you can enjoy perfect riding weather in the fall and spring and put on some arm warmers for the depth of winter from mid-Dec to mid-late Jan.

Lots of places in the SW also have high and low elevation riding opportunities, which makes a real difference when you consider that temps drop 2C for every 1,000' of elevation gain.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

I'm not letting a bicycle dictate the rest of my life. I want to see the world.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Phillbo said:


> I'm not letting a bicycle dictate the rest of my life. I want to see the world.


Live your dream, I say, but if you want to own something that will dictate your life for certain get a boat. Unless you're rich enough to hire a crew to handle the maintenance. Question, though, do you really think the cycling crowd is letting bikes "dictate their lives" rather than simply living their passions?


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

Maybe sailing is my passion.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Phillbo said:


> Maybe sailing is my passion.


Sounds like it is from your posts on this topic, and that's great, but you seem to be passing judgement on the passion of others. Your perogative.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

You are obviously too sensitive. I have not passed judgement. Simply stated my feelings. if those bothered you, that's your problem not mine.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Phillbo said:


> You are obviously too sensitive. I have not passed judgement. Simply stated my feelings. if those bothered you, that's your problem not mine.


Yes, obviously... Fair skies and favorable winds, skipper.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

richde said:


> Lots of places in the SW also have high and low elevation riding opportunities, which makes a real difference when you consider that temps drop 2C for every 1,000' of elevation gain.


This ^^^^

As an example, Moab is in the 90's three months out of the year, but it is totally fine. Moab is at 4000 feet above sea level and most of the riding is higher than that. If you want to ride in summer, just get it done before noon. It is in the 50's at sunrise, so you have six hours to ride your brains out. (cooling off overnight also allows you sleep with the windows open, which I love.) If you can't make it out in the morning, you can be at a trailhead at 9000 ft in 35 minutes where it is sure to be cool. Just watch out for thunderstorms.

Honestly, I've ridden in the middle of the afternoon in the summer out there in temps up to 105F, and as long as you drink tons of water and don't overdo it, it is totally fine. I lived on the west coast of Florida for six years where the temperature never goes above 94F, and I'd rather ride in 105F in Moab than 94F in Florida, hands down. In the SW, shade and a breeze actually cool you off, whereas in Florida, the heat and humidity permeate the air. Standing in the shade even with a breeze did very little for me in Florida.

Another big win for the SW is that you don't need A/C. Swamp coolers work great there, and are way less expensive to run than A/C. A/C is great when you want to remove humidity, but you want to ADD humidity in the SW.


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## Phillbo (Apr 7, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> Another big win for the SW is that you don't need A/C. Swamp coolers work great there, and are way less expensive to run than A/C. A/C is great when you want to remove humidity, but you want to ADD humidity in the SW.


You might want to research that a bit. Come visit and see how many people are actually using swamp coolers. I can't remember seeing one in years.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Phillbo said:


> You might want to research that a bit. Come visit and see how many people are actually using swamp coolers. I can't remember seeing one in years.


Are you actually in Moab? Drive down the street someday and look at the houses. See a big vented box on top of the roof? That's a swamp cooler. See a big vented box in a window with a water line running to it? That's a swamp cooler. If you aren't actually there, go on Google Streetview. They are everywhere. This time of year they likely to be covered with a canvas cover or even just a tarp.

I lived in Moab one summer and have been going out there for almost thirty years. The house I lived in had a single window swamp cooler and it kept the entire house cool. Tons of people use swamp coolers in the southwest. There is a reason Walker's and Turner's sell swamp cooler pads by the pallet load.

I even know a lot of people using swamp coolers on the Colorado Front Range. They don't work quite as well here because the humidity is often higher than optimal, but they still get a lot of use on the dryer days.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

honkinunit said:


> ...Drive down the street someday and look at the houses. See a big vented box on top of the roof? That's a swamp cooler. See a big vented box in a window with a water line running to it? That's a swamp cooler..... The house I lived in had a single window swamp cooler and it kept the entire house cool. Tons of people use swamp coolers in the southwest. There is a reason Walker's and Turner's sell swamp cooler pads by the pallet load...


Good thing to remember.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

A more fundamental problem with the Central Valley is that it is FLAT and we like to play in the mountains.

If I were going to move at this point it would be to Mendocino county.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

Now, (61), Idaho. Moved here in November and loving it.

\

.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

zon said:


> Now, (61), Idaho. Moved here in November and loving it.


Where at if you don't mind? I have a real jones on to spend some time down in Driggs myself


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## zon (Nov 4, 2004)

SlimL said:


> Where at if you don't mind? I have a real jones on to spend some time down in Driggs myself


Middleton. Out in the country on a bluff with great vies. Awesome biking up here, road and mtn. This time of year I have been riding mtb along the snake river. Fantastic riding.

Posted a thread on a recent ride here: Snake River 2

.


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## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

We tried a practice run for retirement. In 2014 my wife and I quit our jobs and spent a year sailing the US and Canadian east coast and Bahamas. We then spent 3 months last summer at Kingdom Trails in Vermont. We have been visiting this area for 30 years in all seasons. We have made many wonderful friends there.

We are back to work now and will soon be buying some land in Maine and building our dream timber frame. When we do finally retire(again) we will likely be part time in VT.

See our travel blog at TKRonaBoat


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

SlimL said:


> Where at if you don't mind? I have a real jones on to spend some time down in Driggs myself


I don't know about the riding but I wouldn't mind being at the doorstep of Grand Targhee (I've never had a bad day of snowboarding there) and then within striking distance of Jackson Hole which I know has epic ski & snowboarding + MTB'ing in the "off" seasons which are too short for my liking.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

zon said:


> Middleton. Out in the country on a bluff with great vies. Awesome biking up here, road and mtn. This time of year I have been riding mtb along the snake river. Fantastic riding.
> 
> Posted a thread on a recent ride here: Snake River 2
> 
> .


Looks EXACTLY like the Snake looks outside of Nampa too. Nice photos but if I came to Idaho, I'd be coming for the trees in Couer d'Alene or Sun Valley. Already looked at McCall and that's just a lil' lacking for our tastes.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Great photos there Zon. Didn't realize it was outside of Boise. Got a friend who went to college in Boise and he also says the riding around there is great. I expect to spend some time there in 1 year 4 months and 24 days when I retire. Might look you up if you don't mind when I get there.

Driggs is in the SE corner of the state. 40 minutes from Jackson Hole and 20 from Grand Targhee. Sidewinder there is on my bucket list.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Retired in Cortez, CO. On 6 acres 
Phils World 
Boggy Draw
Moab an hour and a half drive - not too bad
Durango 45 minutes 
Tons of riding, road, singletrack, gravel
Mesa Verde national park.
Nice area


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

woody.1 said:


> Retired in Cortez, CO. On 6 acres
> Phils World
> Boggy Draw
> Moab an hour and a half drive - not too bad
> ...


You forgot to add, a fairly decent airport, for a small town! It really is a nice area.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Simplemind said:


> You forgot to add, a fairly decent airport, for a small town! It really is a nice area.


Oh yeah - thanks 
And Durango's airport has a few more flight choices....


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

woody.1 said:


> Retired in Cortez, CO. On 6 acres
> Phils World
> Boggy Draw
> Moab an hour and a half drive - not too bad
> ...


Love, love, LOVE Phil's World. Just discovered Boggy Draw on our last trip to Durango.

You also have a FANTASTIC bike shop, especially for a city the size of Cortez. It's a nicer shop than all but 2 or 3 in San Diego County and we have over 2 million people in the county.


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## senor_mikey (Apr 25, 2009)

just found this thread. I retired 4 years ago at 55. I swore my whole life I would move north from the LA suburb I lived in for 35 years. Bend, Ashville, Durango etc were on my list. But, both my daughters settled in Carlsbad ( North San Diego County) and my wife is a total beach person so my dreams went out the window. Pricey place to live, very touristy in the summer and not the greatest MTB trails IMO. But great climate, no need for air conditioning and rarely use the heater in Winter. I ride my monster cross bike mostly as rideable dirt is in many small sections that I can connect on pavement.
Bought a fat bike for winter as there is a huge desert to ride 2 hrs east and a long rideable coast 1/2 mile away.

mike


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I retired last September; turned 62 in November. Live in Eugene, Oregon and like it here. The rain's not that bad and it nurtures big trees and dense forests. I live about half an hour from Oakridge where there's 350 miles of really nice singletrack. The coast is an hour west, the Cascades range is an hour east. Lots of friends of all ages here who love to ride.

As for aging, they say the memory is the second thing to go. I can't remember what the first thing is.

Locally I'm infamous for saying this: We don't stop riding because we get old. We get old because we stop riding. 

Don't stop.
--Sparty


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Sparticus said:


> I retired last September; turned 62 in November. Live in Eugene, Oregon and like it here...Lots of friends of all ages here who love to ride.
> 
> As for aging, they say the memory is the second thing to go. I can't remember what the first thing is.
> 
> ...


I know you know this, obviously, but there is no reason for not staying where you are. Seattle, where I am, has some of the best riding and the best trail builders ever with Evergreen MTB Alliance. Duthie, Tiger Mtn, Paradise, Black Diamond, etc are all less then an hour from me. My favorite, Black Diamond, is only 35 minutes. Ride it in the morning for 2.5 hours and still have time to make it work at 2 in the afternoon. So by all means don't move.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Just cemented our retirement plans this weekend when we bought a 1.5 acre lot in Prescott. Even though I stopped working a year ago, my wife has 6 years, 5 months and 7 days to go. We'll start the building process in about (5) years so we can move right in once she retires.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SlimL said:


> I know you know this, obviously, but there is no reason for not staying where you are. Seattle, where I am, has some of the best riding and the best trail builders ever with Evergreen MTB Alliance. Duthie, Tiger Mtn, Paradise, Black Diamond, etc are all less then an hour from me. My favorite, Black Diamond, is only 35 minutes. Ride it in the morning for 2.5 hours and still have time to make it work at 2 in the afternoon. So by all means don't move.


The riding around Seattle is first rate, if you don't mind the wet, cold, and overcast days.

Most of my neighbors in Wenatchee are from Seattle, they burned out on the rain and dark days.

I like to visit Seattle, we'll be coming over Saturday to ride Tiger if it's not raining.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

woody.1 said:


> Retired in Cortez, CO. On 6 acres
> Phils World
> Boggy Draw
> Moab an hour and a half drive - not too bad
> ...


I want to hear more about Cortez.

How many months are your trails snowboand?

What's the coldest nighttime/daytime temps you've seen?

Is Cortez red, blue, mixed, progressive, regressive?

Can you compare Cortez to any other towns?


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> The riding around Seattle is first rate, if you don't mind the wet, cold, and overcast days.
> 
> Most of my neighbors in Wenatchee are from Seattle, they burned out on the rain and dark days.
> 
> I like to visit Seattle, we'll be coming over Saturday to ride Tiger if it's not raining.


 I know exactly what you mean. I figure to travel most of the year then come back to our place in Randle for a couple of months. Maybe.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

k2rider1964 said:


> Just cemented our retirement plans this weekend when we bought a 1.5 acre lot in Prescott. Even though I stopped working a year ago, my wife has 6 years, 5 months and 7 days to go. We'll start the building process in about (5) years so we can move right in once she retires.


I don't know. I think if it were me, I would start building now. Take the family over for a vacation, then send them home saying you have things to do there before you can come home. Got a buddy down in Florence AZ that does that because his wife still works.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

SlimL said:


> I don't know. I think if it were me, I would start building now. Take the family over for a vacation, then send them home saying you have things to do there before you can come home. Got a buddy down in Florence AZ that does that because his wife still works.


Yep. We won't be retiring (semi-retiring) for another 6-10 years but we're buying our retirement home now because interest rates are so low and where we're buying is set to got off, I believe. Get in while the getting is good.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

KRob said:


> Yep. We won't be retiring (semi-retiring) for another 6-10 years but we're buying our retirement home now because interest rates are so low and where we're buying is set to got off, I believe. Get in while the getting is good.


I won't be worrying about interest rates because we will sell our current home for probably $100K more than the new home is going to cost us to build. Even if there are over-runs, which I'm absolutely sure there will be, we have that $100K buffer.

Plus, my wife isn't keen on having a 6 year old house when we move in on day one. Styles and our opinions on what we like change over time. No clue what technology will be available in 6 years that isn't an option now.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

OldGringo said:


> Isn't that where Deliverance was filmed? Only kidding. I I spent some time in AR during college...had a couple friends from the Hot Springs area. I recall that part of the Ozarks being beautiful country & having a lot to offer. What's the MTBing like?


mtb riding in AR is great, but whether you'll care anything at all for the rest of AR, well...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mudge said:


> mtb riding in AR is great, but whether you'll care anything at all for the rest of AR, well...


The biking in the Southeast US is great, but it's humid year round, and there is no way to get around that humidity by riding late or riding early. It's the South.

I lived twenty years in SW Virginia and East Tennessee, I can pull a native accent without trying, but no matter how much I miss the riding, I won't go back to the humidity.

There is so much great riding in this country, but when it comes down to choosing a good place to live that also has great riding, there are places other than the South that have a higher socioeconomic "mentality" and don't suffer from body and mind draining weather.

I'd take PNW humidity any day over the South.

One of the things I appreciate most about living in the Western part of the country is the ability to choose my weather by driving just a few hours. In the South, there is no way to get cooler or drier unless you drive West for a couple days. But live in the West, on either side of the Cascades/Sierras, and you can have your pick of riding conditions within a few hours.

This ^^ is pretty durn cool.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> There is so much great riding in this country, but when it comes down to choosing a good place to live that also has great riding, there are places other than the South that have a higher socioeconomic "mentality" and ...


thank you for picking up on the intent without making me spell it out.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SlimL said:


> I know exactly what you mean. I figure to travel most of the year then come back to our place in Randle for a couple of months. Maybe.


Wait, you live in Randle WA? Hmm, that's pretty isolated, I was out there last summer to ride Mt St Helens.

So where do you shop? I can't imagine making the drive into Yakima for groceries.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mudge said:


> thank you for picking up on the intent without making me spell it out.


Yeah, twenty years is a lifetime. My wife is a southern peach and her family are real plums 

I always wanted to come down and ride the Syllamo stage race, but I just never made it.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, twenty years is a lifetime. My wife is a southern peach and her family are real plums
> 
> I always wanted to come down and ride the Syllamo stage race, but I just never made it.


I've never ridden Syllamo, but hear great things about it. I've done the Ouachita Challenge a couple of times, doing it again this year. It is a crap ton of fun. Anything on the Womble trails is fun. For something a bit more challenging, technically, the trails up around Eureka Springs are incredible. The Fat Tire Festival up there is well worth the trip.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I want to hear more about Cortez.
> 
> How many months are your trails snowboand?
> Well this is our second winter here and last year we had only a few times when the trails we not rideable at Phils World. This year is a whole lot different (El Niño) and we've had snow on the ground since November. The trails at Boggy Draw are open to fat bikes, the local bike club got a snow grooming machine and worked hard to get trails groomed for fat bikes.
> ...


Shoot me a PM if you want to talk about it more.

Here's a good map of the trails in the area:
Home Page - Mountain Bike Adventure Maps from Big Loop Mountain Bike Maps - Colorado Mountain Bike Trails


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Wait, you live in Randle WA? Hmm, that's pretty isolated, I was out there last summer to ride Mt St Helens.
> 
> So where do you shop? I can't imagine making the drive into Yakima for groceries.


We live in Seattle most of the time. We have a campsite lot up the Cispus Road above Randle where we plan some improvements over the next year so we can come back for the summer there. As for shopping Fischers at the bottom of the hill isn't to bad for fresh stuff but probably would drive in to Centrailia/Chehalis for other stuff. Costco in Tumwater.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

I've been partially retired for almost 18 years now. I mean, I'm self employed.


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## Fuzzle (Mar 31, 2015)

Hawg said:


> I've been partially retired for almost 18 years now. I mean, I'm self employed.


Your line of work sounds like fun so I guess you could say your retired.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

woody.1 said:


> Retired in Cortez, CO. On 6 acres
> Phils World
> Boggy Draw
> Moab an hour and a half drive - not too bad
> ...


Lived in that area (Dolores and then Summit Ridge) for 15 years, but wrapped it up about 20 years ago. Now want to get back there for maybe 4 months/year (June-Sept?). Thinking about renting a place for summer 2017; too much trouble to buy property when we're not there year 'round. I wouldn't say that land is cheap, but much cheaper than the insanity of Durango real estate. Large grocery store, WalMart.

Cortez/Dolores/Mancos is definitely an overlooked area. Access to mountain, desert and everything in between -- hiking, climbing, biking, backpacking, boating. Love Phil's World and Boggy Draw. Used to do a lot of hiking in Sand Canyon, which i understand now has an expanded trail system. Lots of potential to easily adjust for altitude/activity. A vibrant farming community so lots of fresh food in season.

We'll be in the area in late May to boat the San Juan and back in late July to bike and volunteer at the Telluride 100. Can't wait!

For the first time since 2011, enough water will be released from McPhee Reservoir on the Dolores in part of May and June for a boatable flow. Exciting news if you are into whitewater boating. If you like fishing or boating on flatwater, McPhee Reservoir is another asset.

The upper Dolores is always good for a riffle-y float in spring and most of the summer.


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

Cortez/Dolores/Mancos is a very pretty area. My wife and i have a place in Durango for the summer and a place in Fountain Hills, AZ for the winter. Perfect balance of great weather and mountains year-round. I'm "probably" two to three years from semi-retirement.

Trails 2000 does a great job with the trails around Durango constantly updating existing trails and building new ones. In AZ the City of Scottsdale has a great trail preserve network that is continuing to grow. The new trails in the north preserve around Granite Mountain are just a ton of fun to ride.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Ob1Hoagie said:


> Cortez/Dolores/Mancos is a very pretty area. My wife and i have a place in Durango for the summer and a place in Fountain Hills, AZ for the winter. Perfect balance of great weather and mountains year-round. I'm "probably" two to three years from semi-retirement.
> 
> Trails 2000 does a great job with the trails around Durango constantly updating existing trails and building new ones. In AZ the City of Scottsdale has a great trail preserve network that is continuing to grow. The new trails in the north preserve around Granite Mountain are just a ton of fun to ride.


Best of both worlds!


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

Yes, we are very fortunate as my wife and I are both "mountain people". ;-)


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

There's a difference between "retiring" and "settling down". When you stop working, it doesn't mean you stop living and finding new passions. Right now, I'm one of the folks in Park City because I still like to ski and mountain bike. But by the time I turn 70, I may want to get back into surfing. Who knows...maybe a few years in Costa Rica. I also like hiking and light mountaineering, so Switzerland looks good. And then there's grandchildren. Who knows? Just go with the flow and don't be that rock that stops rolling!


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> There's a difference between "retiring" and "settling down". When you stop working, it doesn't mean you stop living and finding new passions. Right now, I'm one of the folks in Park City because I still like to ski and mountain bike. But by the time I turn 70, I may want to get back into surfing. Who knows...maybe a few years in Costa Rica. I also like hiking and light mountaineering, so Switzerland looks good. And then there's grandchildren. Who knows? Just go with the flow and don't be that rock that stops rolling!


I know exactly what you mean. Ginie and I plan on full time traveling (she won't let me say RV), riding and looking at lots of country. Looking at country and studying rocks. There is always so much new to learn. You don't quit playing because you grow old; you grow old because you quit playing.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

I feel incredibly blessed. I was born, raised, worked, and at 64, very close to retiring in SoCal. I live in Mission Viejo and it is crowded and it is not cheap. That said, it is a little like living in Disneyland. It is close to the beach, a couple of hours from the snow, has a pond, they call a lake for sailing. There are enough mtb trails and road bike routes close by to keep me occupied. The weather really is tough to beat and there are whatever amenities I want.

From the people I have talked to, the most important thing to do if re-locating is to make sure that you are not leaving amenities that you are going to miss. People work their entire lives and never really get to know their community and then retire and move away thinking that getting away from the crowds is the ultimate retirement environment. They find out that they just can't run out to a Walmart, or hit a fast food place late at night, or have a choice of movie theaters, etc. without driving somewhere else.

I think Prescott would be a great place. Our sons have both moved to Arizona, east valley, so we have gone up to Prescott a few times and have really enjoyed it. Tons of trails and depending of which side you are on, very little snow. There is a little traffic, but there is a Costco, an In-n-Out, Walmart, etc.

As for an over 55 retirement community... do you like to play cards, sit around and talk, complain about your aches, pains, weather, politics and then slowly watch each other die? I'm sure there are good ones out there, but I would think you would have a hard time finding a lot of riding buddies.

John


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

70sSanO said:


> As for an over 55 retirement community... do you like to play cards, sit around and talk, complain about your aches, pains, weather, politics and then slowly watch each other die? I'm sure there are good ones out there, but I would think you would have a hard time finding a lot of riding buddies.
> John


Just have to learn to ride by yourself I guess. Or find one that is near a bike club.


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## rzims (Sep 7, 2005)

This is an interesting thread as I'm looking at these decisions currently. My wife passed 2 years ago this June. We had planned to buy some land and build a house in the CA foothills so it was done when we retired in 2020.
Now things have changed and my goals are evolving. Still plan on retiring at 60 but will continue to work part time.
I've decided I'm way too busy living to have a full time job 
Would love to get out of the bay area and in to the hills, but need to be somewhat close to the kids and grandkids.
Would like to buy some land, but not sure I want that commitment and may decide I'd rather spend that money travelling....who knows...life can be turned upside down in an instant so it's important to live now and not wait till you're retired to do all the things you want to do....


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

rzims said:


> This is an interesting thread as I'm looking at these decisions currently. My wife passed 2 years ago this June. We had planned to buy some land and build a house in the CA foothills so it was done when we retired in 2020.
> Now things have changed and my goals are evolving. Still plan on retiring at 60 but will continue to work part time.
> I've decided I'm way too busy living to have a full time job
> Would love to get out of the bay area and in to the hills, but need to be somewhat close to the kids and grandkids.
> Would like to buy some land, but not sure I want that commitment and may decide I'd rather spend that money travelling....who knows...life can be turned upside down in an instant so it's important to live now and not wait till you're retired to do all the things you want to do....


So sorry to hear about your wife. I don't know you personally but I do know that losing Ginie would be a game changer for me so I can definitely empathize and sympathize with you.

We are lucky in the fact that we already have property here in the state out in the woods but still within an hour or so of the kids. We are working on projects to make it manageable with a bigger trailer so we can at least come back there when we want to. Travel for a couple of years then decide if it's time to settle down. There are so many options.

Hang in the Brother, the answers will come.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

52 and I am contemplating selling my home and moving to S. America. Ecuador, Bolivia, Columbia, Peru etc. Some sort of volunteer work to stay busy. Contemplating hard and just starting to work on a plan. Both my boys will be done with college in three years but not sure I want to wait quite that long before leaving. Working for Corporate America the past 25+ years, I am ready to travel again. Figure I can come home when the grandkids arrive.


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## michael9218 (Dec 17, 2006)

Asking for the best place to live is a bit like asking what the best religion is. People only know what they know and everyone has different criteria for what is "best".

Ok, my two cents:
I grew up in coastal San Diego (Encinitas). Left for a career in 1985. Have lived in Anaheim, San Antonio, Philadelphia, and Atlanta. I retired last year. The wife and I bought a 6 acre wooded lot in the horse country north of Atlanta (Milton). To us, this has it all. The wife doesn't cycle, so that wasn't a criteria for her. For me, cycling is fantastic in and around Atlanta. The gaps up near Dahlonega are 50 minutes away where you can ride beautiful roads and climb to your hearts content (6 Gap Century). I can also roll out of my driveway and ride for miles on quiet country roads. Mountain biking is also top notch with heavily wooded forest everywhere. Tight technical singletrack abounds. There's a good cycling scene in Atlanta.

As for the weather, winters are mild and rideable every month. Summers do get hot, but not as other places like Philly or San Antonio. Humidity is something that you either get used to or as others have stated, they hate it. Personally, I've come to prefer riding in humidity over dry air. But then, I'm now accustomed to riding 100 miles in the summer heat. I've had days where my Garmin was reading 105 on the road. But even in the summer, the heat comes and goes. It's not constant like in San Antonio. 

Atlanta has a lot to offer off the bike as a major city with all the amenities including a sophisticated demographic (a socioeconomic island in the south). You also have the best airport in the world for direct flights if you travel. Okay, it's also the busiest airport in the world. But if you like to travel, nothing beats the comfort of a direct flight.

If you love trees, mountains, water in every creek and river, lakes, and did I mention trees?, than consider the north metro area of Atlanta (or North Georgia).


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

michael9218 said:


> Asking for the best place to live is a bit like asking what the best religion is. People only know what they know and everyone has different criteria for what is "best".
> 
> Ok, my two cents:
> .....I retired last year. The wife and I bought a 6 acre wooded lot in the horse country north of Atlanta (Milton). To us, this has it all...... For me, cycling is fantastic in and around Atlanta..... Atlanta has a lot to offer off the bike as a major city with all the amenities including a sophisticated demographic (a socioeconomic island in the south). You also have the best airport in the world for direct flights if you travel. Okay, it's also the busiest airport in the world. But if you like to travel, nothing beats the comfort of a direct flight.
> ...


Boy you hit the nail right on the head. The thing I like about this topic is you get to hear other peoples ideas of best and it helps me to look at this topic from other sides. Sides that I have to admit I probably never would have thought of.

And Atlanta,....you're not the first person whose opinion I would trust that has said Atlanta is a great place. And how can you resist those southern belles with the lovely lilt in their voice.


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

70sSanO said:


> I think Prescott would be a great place. Our sons have both moved to Arizona, east valley, so we have gone up to Prescott a few times and have really enjoyed it. Tons of trails and depending of which side you are on, very little snow. There is a little traffic, but there is a Costco, an In-n-Out, Walmart, etc.
> 
> John


Prescott is a pretty area. As I'm sure you know you have year-round riding on some of the best trails in the world within a four hour traveling radius of that area. Sedona, Flagstaff, PHX Metro, Moab and Durango... the list goes on. In that area you can pick your elevation and the climate to go along with it.

What is funny is that as a kid I grew up in the midwest. My family took ONE trip out west to see CO, WY, SD, etc. After that one trip I knew where I would be living when I grow up and can choose where I want to live. The mountains made a HUGE impression on me and continue to till this day. 

As for the wife and I we are in the desert Nov thru mid-May then it's time to head up to Durango to cool off from May to Oct. :thumbsup:


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Ob1Hoagie said:


> Prescott is a pretty area. As I'm sure you know you have year-round riding on some of the best trails in the world within a four hour traveling radius of that area. Sedona, Flagstaff, PHX Metro, Moab and Durango... the list goes on. In that area you can pick your elevation and the climate to go along with it.
> 
> What is funny is that as a kid I grew up in the midwest. My family took ONE trip out west to see CO, WY, SD, etc. After that one trip I knew where I would be living when I grow up and can choose where I want to live. The mountains made a HUGE impression on me and continue to till this day.
> 
> As for the wife and I we are in the desert Nov thru mid-May then it's time to head up to Durango to cool off from May to Oct. :thumbsup:


I have friends that do exactly the same thing. They live in Mesa and go to Pagosa Springs May thru October.


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> I have friends that do exactly the same thing. They live in Mesa and go to Pagosa Springs May thru October.


Shhhhhhhh... don't let the word get out !


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

now and everywhere


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Isn't that where the term snowbird came from. I really think the secret is out already. Look at some of the popular places for boondocking on Google and you will see how many people are out there. The trick is to find places that aren't real popular. Places like _ _ _ _ _ and _ _ _ _ _ and _ _ _ _ _ . These are place that are tremendous and people don't know about.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

SlimL said:


> Isn't that where the term snowbird came from. I really think the secret is out already. Look at some of the popular places for boondocking on Google and you will see how many people are out there. The trick is to find places that aren't real popular. Places like _ _ _ _ _ and _ _ _ _ _ and _ _ _ _ _ . These are place that are tremendous and people don't know about.


Snowbirds don't move to escape the heat of SUMMER, they leave where they live in the WINTER to escape the bone chilling cold of Minnesota, Michigan and the like. That's why the deserts of Arizona a explode in the Winter....Quartzite has 1800 residents but that swells to 250,000 in the Winter.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

k2rider1964 said:


> Snowbirds don't move to escape the heat of SUMMER, they leave where they live in the WINTER to escape the bone chilling cold of Minnesota, Michigan and the like. That's why the deserts of Arizona a explode in the Winter....Quartzite has 1800 residents but that swells to 250,000 in the Winter.


Cool, thanks for clearing that up.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

michael9218 said:


> If you love trees, mountains, water in every creek and river, lakes, and did I mention trees?, than consider the north metro area of Atlanta (or North Georgia).


Atlanta, no way, I lived twenty years in the southeast, I moved away two years ago, you won't get me back there except in a pine box.

It's true, there is some great riding out there, but the wet, humidity, and heat combo are brutal, when it's cold it's wet, when it's hot i'ts humid and miserable.

If humidity is you're cup, then the Southeast is your place.

If I was into humidity, Chattanooga would be the first place on my list, waay calmer vibe, nice consiolidated downtown with lots to offer, and few small colleges, close to whitewater, far less congested than Atlanta, NC mountains are closer, still within reach of Atlanta Airport as well as Nashville, and the riding is top shelf.

My advice: Go West.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, we got back from our road trip, ten days scouting the southwest, driving through some amazing country, starting with the big drive across ID from Wenatchee, dropping down into SLC to visit the kids, with just enough time for a quick ride at Klondike (Moab) before camping for the night.

From Moab we drove southeast to Cortez, a nice little town that has tons of potential but will be slow to grow due to being so isolated. I rode Phils World, what a treat! If you pass that way, just do it, it's once of those trails that has a little bit of everything all wrapped with a bow! Nice healthy restaurant in town, decent Thai, good bike shop.

From Cortez we took the rural route toward Flagstaff, bypassing the Grand for the return trip. It's interesting to spend so much time driving through various reservations, some are clearly doing better than others. I was excited to get into Flag, at least until we got into Flag.

Flagstaff, hmm, where to start... well, it's larger and far more congested than I imagined. Flag is not a small town, it's a small city with big city issues. Congestion from traffic, sprawl, crime, all things brought to Flag from being too close to it's friendly neighbors (Phoenix, California, Vegas) and being smack dab on an interstate.

We bailed on Flag and drove down the canyon, taking the scenic route to Sedona. The canyon drive is grogeous, we ended up camping in the canyon that night. Sedona, well, I sorta knew what to expect there, it's a new agey, old person's playground for folks who don't have the sense to question what they see on TV/Internet. Yuck, and double yuck.

The riding in Sedona was top shelf. We rode Bellrock-Little Horse-Llama on the tandem, then I went back and did the same trails plus Chapel Loop on my single bike. We had a good dinner at a wood fired pizza place, then headed back to camp.

After a restlful night in the canyon, we drove back into Flag for a second look, still didn't really feel it, so after some breakfast we headed for the north rim of the Grand. The drive to the North Rim is beautiful, the road is not. Bumpy and wavy for miles until it cleaned up as it turned West. The rim was still closed (stoopid Park Service), but the drive was worth the detour. From the north rim we worked out way to Hurricance, then onto St George.

Hurricane is a cute as a button little town with the best damn riding, but the town is being wrecked by it's proximity to St George. If it was more remote and perhaps didn't function as a bedroom town to St George, maybe it'd be a worth place to settle, but right now it's teetering on becoming a sprawly mess between St George and the parks.

We were staying in St George where my wife was attending a medical conference, so had a few days to get the feel of the area. After dropping my wife off a teh conference, I did a giant driving loop north to Enterprise, crossing over to Cedar City, then back down the hill to St George.

St George is a big boxes, chain restaurants, and asphalt. There are some cutish little neighborhood like the one off Tonaquint, but for teh most part it was not so cute in any way. I have not been to Las Vegas, but St George has some of the flavors I can imagine seeing if I visited Vegas.

While staying in St George I rode Zen (great in town trail) and the backside of the Zen Mesa, a cool little jumping area with trails going every which way. I would take Zen as a back yard trail any day!

I got up to Hurricane a few times, the highlight being a day on the Goosberry Mesa. For those who don't know this area, Gooseberry is an IMBA Epic trail, and it is well worth this designation, though it takes some effort to get out there, it is not a trail to be missed. Okay, it's not a trail, it's a riding area unto itself, a slick rock wonderland.

My wife finally skipped some conference sessions and we headed to Cedar City for a look around. Now we gots two different perspective on CC.

Moi: decent small town vibe, growing college, becoming more liberal, lots of potential, great trail access in the winter (St George) and growing train access in town three seasons, less hot than St George, not as cold as some places (GJ/Fruita/Cortez).

Mrs. Nurse Ben: "Ewww, it has a highway running right through town". "There's nothing here". "it's too ..."'

Now granted, my wife had just spent three days in St George, stuck in a room with medical providers who paid her no heed, she didn't make a singe contact, she was not greeted by any other provider, only the drug reps new her name. So her take away was that culturally we just didn't fit in. Perhaps she's right.

I like Cedar City, I think it's a gem in the rough, so I voted for it even though my wife just gave me the look.

We drove back to SLC, saw the kids again, then a quick trip across ID, back into Wenatchee where the weather is amazing (three seasons) and the riding is so-so.

I heart the riding that the Southwest has to offer, rocks are great, but the question remains: Where next?

My gut feeling is we're destined to live near Grand Junction. It's close to SLC, it has great riding and is close to other great riding (Phils), and we can live a bit out of town to ratchet down the heat. The cold is present, that's not something I can easilly escape, but at least it's lighter and less cloudy in the winters than the PNW.

Hopefully no one takes my comments to personally, I'm sure there are people who live in all these areas and love them to pieces. In reality, there is something to like about every place we visited, but moving to a place is far different than visiting a place.

We are planning a fall trip to GJ 

Pretty cactus








Gooseberry Mesa, Hurricane:








Phil's World, Cortez:








Backside of Zen, St George:








More pretty cactus:








Sedona:








Zen, St George:








Pretty flowers:








Sedona:








Phils Workd, Cortez:








Gooseberry Mesa, Hurricane:








I think this was Gooseberry...


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## Ob1Hoagie (Jun 11, 2004)

You didn't visit Durango but you visited Cortez ?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ob1Hoagie said:


> You didn't visit Durango but you visited Cortez ?


Yup, only visited places we hadn't visited in the past.

Been to Durango, it's a nice touristy town, I'd take it over Flag, it's on the radar. It's a tad too far from SLC. Cortez was a stretch, as was Flag, but at least Durango has jobs and it's liveable.

There are lots of places that are appealing, but we're shooting for six hours or less drive time to SLC.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks so much for your impressions of your trip Nurse Ben. I value your opinion. I am surprised that you didn't drop in to Prescott. I really like the vibe that the PMBA gives off and hope to visit there in the next year or so. If I don't retire first. I also, just from the research that I have done, got that vibe from Flagstaff. You just brought that home.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

SlimL said:


> Thanks so much for your impressions of your trip Nurse Ben. I value your opinion. I am surprised that you didn't drop in to Prescott. I really like the vibe that the PMBA gives off and hope to visit there in the next year or so. If I don't retire first. I also, just from the research that I have done, got that vibe from Flagstaff. You just brought that home.


SlimL....he implied he went to Prescott in another post about moving to St George in the Utah forum. Kinda lumped it in with Flagstaff with his comments about Northern AZ, essentially stated that he though it was too big, with too much traffic...that it had been overrun with Californians.

I see what you see in regards to PMBA. At least online, they *seem* to be the most organized MTB group out there. I for one am very impressed. My suggestion to you when you go visit is...#1) Make sure you don't visit on a busy holiday weekend or when some special event is going on and #2) Make sure you take the time to drive AROUND and outside of town. Downtown Prescott has the Mom & Pop type places but is still centered on Whiskey Row and Courthouse Square so it's tourist based. Go literally less than 10 minutes tops outside of town and you can be riding on 100's of miles of trails. Also, realize that once you cross over into the "modern" area of Prescott Valley, you're in a whole new city. That's NOT Prescott. Prescott Valley is home to Costco, Trader Joes, Wal-Mart and every other modern convenience but that also comes with the traffic and concrete for miles. Luckily for those that want to live in Prescott proper, most people moving in are all going to Prescott Valley.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

k2Rider1964, I definitely can see what you mean. When Ginie and I get down to visit we will be dragging a trailer and we are into "dispersed camping" (yeah, i'm cheap). They are very particular where you can park it and in my research I see that only in places where lots of people go; Moab, Fruita, and the like. If we were to move there I would definitely spend a lot of time scoping it out. I just love the look of the country and would like someone to point me to some of the trailheads. I can do the rest. That being said, every once in a while, it's nice to have a Costco or a Wal-Mart.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> SlimL....he implied he went to Prescott in another post about moving to St George in the Utah forum. Kinda lumped it in with Flagstaff with his comments about Northern AZ, essentially stated that he though it was too big, with too much traffic...that it had been overrun with Californians.


We did not go to Prescott, we were on the way and bailed, not because it's not of interest to me, but because my wife doesn't want to be so near a large city. I get that Prescott is nice, I wouldn't have driven that far South if it wasn't worth checking out, but when you're used to living in towns of 50k or less, a small city seems too big. Prescott will probably never be a Phoenix, but it will certainly become a medium sized city.

Each person has a threshold of what makes a town into a city; it's not just growth or tourism, as there are some very nice places that have tourism and are growing fast.

We're looking for a place that's more off the beaten path, Cortez fits as does Cedar City, maybe even Bend; Flag definitely does not fit that definition.

What is killing me is the riding is just so dang good in the Southwest, if only I could convince the wife to give CC a shot; so close to the kids and a perfect mix of access and weather, but to be brutally honest, we're not the right religion.

Personally, I don't have many close friends, most of my free time is spent riding with my dogs and hanging out at home with the wife, but there is a certain belongingness that can be felt, and that's what we're looking for in a small town.

Places we have felt that belongingness:

Wenatchee
The Dalles
Corvallis
Fruita
Cortez
Laramie
Logan
Bend

Places on the list to "experience"

Bishop
Helena
Montrose

Great thread by the way, no right or wrong answers, just sharing experiences and talking about the next move


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

You might want to add the Rogue Valley just over the CA/ORE border to your "experience" list with particular attention to Jacksonville and the Applegate Valley. 2800 people, good vibes, dog friendly and 40+ miles of singletrack within the city limits. It's wine and farm country, but there's skiing not 25 miles away at Mt Ashland. There is also a summer-long outdoor music festival that's been held on weekends since the '60s: the Britt Festival.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I get the "belongingness" that you're talking about Nurse Ben. It is one of the reasons that I am so attached to Black Diamond. Even from the first 4 months I was riding a MTB (not only am I an old slow guy I am new too) the crew out there has always made me feel like I belong. Also I ride mostly by myself enjoying the lack of common consensus building where I want to ride. I admit that a lot of my attraction to places is pictures I have seen and the vibe they put out on the internet. And of course the opinion of others here are a real help. 

Not too worried about the size of the place; just want good trails with good access. I live in Seattle with it's terrible traffic so anything except maybe LA will be better then the wet side. There are a couple of places that have been mentioned with high esteem that I won't go near just because they come across on the internet and rub me the wrong way. There are so many places I want to see that sometimes it's a good thing to get knocked out of the running. Ginie and I will probably just end up in an RV park in Tucson during the winter and traveling during the summer. I really would like to stomp snow in Driggs though.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Hurricane is a cute as a button little town with the best damn riding, but the town is being wrecked by it's proximity to St George. If it was more remote and perhaps didn't function as a bedroom town to St George, maybe it'd be a worth place to settle, but right now it's teetering on becoming a sprawly mess between St George and the parks.


Yeah, I get what you're saying about Hurricane. We decided to jump in before it got too crazy. Just bought a house on the North/La Verkin side of town over looking the gorge with stunning views of Zion to the North and the Pine Mountains to the South West. I hope it doesn't just become St. George sprawl but that is a possibility. Love the town and the awesome nearby riding.



Nurse Ben said:


> Mrs. Nurse Ben: "Ewww, it has a highway running right through town". "There's nothing here". "it's too ..."'


Just driving through, it's easy to get that impression of Cedar City. But get out and roam some quiet neighborhoods, check out the SUU campus, go to a Shakespeare Play, drive up the canyon to Cedar Breaks and Navajo lake and it does have quite a bit to offer. I went to school for a year there back in the day and quite liked it. Weather is too much like Ely for us, though. I do love that St. George/Hurricane is just a short drive away for those winter/early Spring getaways.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> We did not go to Prescott, we were on the way and bailed, not because it's not of interest to me, but because my wife doesn't want to be so near a large city. I get that Prescott is nice, I wouldn't have driven that far South if it wasn't worth checking out, but when you're used to living in towns of 50k or less, a small city seems too big. Prescott will probably never be a Phoenix, but it will certainly become a medium sized city.
> 
> Each person has a threshold of what makes a town into a city; it's not just growth or tourism, as there are some very nice places that have tourism and are growing fast.
> 
> ...


Fair enough but just for clarification...Prescott has 40,500 and that has only gone up 8000 since 1995. Prescott itself doesnt have the unlimited potential for growth since it's *mostly* built out. It's population density is 915 per sq mile. Compare that to Cedar City which has almost 30K residents and has grown by 12K since 1995. It has a population density of 1021 already and they are just getting started on building tract homes like St George has mastered. If St George gets anywhere near their projected 500K residents by 2015, Cedar City is going to be annexed!! 

Bend already has 76000 and you feel every one of them as you move around downtown. It's going to get worse when OSU - Cascades gets in full swing. If Cortez was a 'nice" city like Durango or Bend, that would be a great option though the *amount* of riding isn't overwhelming. What they do have is great!! Go Oakridge!! Great riding, a great bike shop and I can guarantee you that town will never see 10K residents and last time I was there, the Dairy Queen was hiring for all shifts!!


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Cortez is an interesting place and becoming more so through mountain biking and you can't swing a cat without hitting an archaeologist. The outlier towns of Dolores and Mancos are sweet and if you live in Mancos, it's a quick zip (30 minutes) over to Durango for restaurants, hot springs, biking, Home Depot or whatever floats your boat, especially with the Animas and a whitwater park right in Durango that is usually boatable throughout the summer. In Mancos, you get Durango without the insane real estate prices. There's a fun little ski area between Mancos and Durango as well -- I think it's still in operation. 

What I liked about living in that area is that you quickly (about 20 to 40 minutes) adjust elevation to suit your temperature preferences to recreational needs -- out to Sand Canyon to get warm in the red rocks, up to the peaks to cool off, two hours to Canyonlands/Moab area, fun drive over to Grand Junction, 90 minute drive over to Telluride. 

There is relentless adventure very close by and an excellent base to explore the rest of the southwest. 

Cortez proper is lower in elevation than either Dolores or Mancos -- it gets hotter in the summer, but has a correspondingly milder winter. 

My suggestion? When you settle on an area, rent for a year or so to get to know the area and discover if it's right for you and if you can find your tribe.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

June Bug said:


> Cortez is an interesting place and becoming more so through mountain biking and you can't swing a cat without hitting an archaeologist. The outlier towns of Dolores and Mancos are sweet and if you live in Mancos, it's a quick zip (30 minutes) over to Durango for restaurants, hot springs, biking, Home Depot or whatever floats your boat, especially with the Animas and a whitwater park right in Durango that is usually boatable throughout the summer. In Mancos, you get Durango without the insane real estate prices. There's a fun little ski area between Mancos and Durango as well -- I think it's still in operation.
> 
> What I liked about living in that area is that you quickly (about 20 to 40 minutes) adjust elevation to suit your temperature preferences to recreational needs -- out to Sand Canyon to get warm in the red rocks, up to the peaks to cool off, two hours to Canyonlands/Moab area, fun drive over to Grand Junction, 90 minute drive over to Telluride.
> 
> ...


@ Junebug: Ski hill is still open during the season on weekends only.

Funny you mentioned Mancos, Smithsonian picked it one of the best 20 small towns. All the towns are around National parks this year to celebrate the 100th anniversary of National parks.
Here's the article:
History, Travel, Arts, Science, People, Places | Smithsonian

@ nurseben: Glad you made it to Cortez...

@K2rider: diary queen is still looking for help


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

KRob said:


> Yeah, I get what you're saying about Hurricane. We decided to jump in before it got too crazy. Just bought a house on the North/La Verkin side of town over looking the gorge with stunning views of Zion to the North and the Pine Mountains to the South West. I hope it doesn't just become St. George sprawl but that is a possibility. Love the town and the awesome nearby riding.
> 
> Just driving through, it's easy to get that impression of Cedar City. But get out and roam some quiet neighborhoods, check out the SUU campus, go to a Shakespeare Play, drive up the canyon to Cedar Breaks and Navajo lake and it does have quite a bit to offer. I went to school for a year there back in the day and quite liked it. Weather is too much like Ely for us, though. I do love that St. George/Hurricane is just a short drive away for those winter/early Spring getaways.


We did drive around, I wanted her to see all the areas, so we drove into the neighborhoods in Hurricane, but it's got no downtown core, and with St George so close I'd be surprised if it gets much more in the short term, but you can hope.

At CC we hung out by the college, ate pizza (great little wood fired place), went to the coffee shop (bookstore attached), drove to the resort, but she was just not into it. I think CC gonna pick up more of the college/liberal vibe, definitely a place to watch. I would move there in a second.

We're traveled quite a bit, I've been to all the states multiple times, lived on both sides of the country, I like quite a few spots but those are usually places that other people like too; ie crowded, touristy. It's just the way it is in a wealthy, fast growing country.

If you've been to Cortez, to compare the two places, I wonder why she liked Cortez so much and didn't find the love for CC. Other than a Specialized store a health food restaurant, and some great riding, Cortez has nothing in town, though maybe the lack of "business" on the highway going through town was the attraction...

I used to be an urban planner, practiced and taught, so I look at things with the eyes of an urban designer, sometimes this is not helpful


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

NurseBen, nice writeup and pics!

When you visit GJ, consider looking east to Glenwood Springs and perhaps Eagle. My wife and I have bought land in Eagle, and will be moving there to work part time and retire.

Eagle is a higher elevation than GJ, so it has cooler summers. It's dry and very little humidity. I'll be able to access Eagle's mountain bike trail network from the back of our lot. We like the small town feel. Oh, and having Vail and Beaver Creek a half hour away is pretty nice.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> Fair enough but just for clarification...Prescott has 40,500 and that has only gone up 8000 since 1995. Prescott itself doesnt have the unlimited potential for growth since it's *mostly* built out. It's population density is 915 per sq mile. Compare that to Cedar City which has almost 30K residents and has grown by 12K since 1995. It has a population density of 1021 already and they are just getting started on building tract homes like St George has mastered. If St George gets anywhere near their projected 500K residents by 2015, Cedar City is going to be annexed!!
> 
> Bend already has 76000 and you feel every one of them as you move around downtown. It's going to get worse when OSU - Cascades gets in full swing. If Cortez was a 'nice" city like Durango or Bend, that would be a great option though the *amount* of riding isn't overwhelming. What they do have is great!! Go Oakridge!! Great riding, a great bike shop and I can guarantee you that town will never see 10K residents and last time I was there, the Dairy Queen was hiring for all shifts!!


I don't think CC will be annexed or become a cummuter town, it's quite a ways between the two towns (fifty miles).

I hear what you're saying about Prescott, but it's not gonna stay that way for long, there's just too much development pressure in the surrounding area and you're too close to Phoenix. When it's discovered, it'll be overrun, I want to avoid that.

Bend is growing, but it has no primary industry, it's too far off the interstate, and too far from a major urban area to become a big city. If you look at the growth patterns for similar inland empires (Spokane, Boise), Bend has zero potential for anything but tourism. It does have a ton of second homes and it can get a bit busy downtown, but if you are there during the week or off peak, it's not that busy. It's certainly not like Truckee, which is too close to Reno and is located on the interstate; Truck is doomed!

Oakridge is not going anywhere, it was a dried up logging town when I live in Eugene, it's still a dried up logging town except now it has some good trails. The winter snow and cold will keep away much of the tourism and retirees that could make it a year round town, that's mainly why it has not done better and growth will remain flat. Good riding for sure.

At one point we looked hard at Ashland, but that town suffers from serious Interstae disease, lots of vagrancy, asshat loads of tourists, nice little college, good riding, cute ski resort, close to the ocean/river, but waaay too touristy to be a lived in place.

Picky huh


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you've been to Cortez, to compare the two places, I wonder why she liked Cortez so much and didn't find the love for CC. Other than a Specialized store a health food restaurant, and some great riding, Cortez has nothing in town, though maybe the lack of "business" on the highway going through town was the attraction...


I grew up in Chicago, moved to Denver in 1980, moved to Cortez in 2014. When I moved to Denver I thought it was a small town and now the traffic is terrible. 
Now we go over to Durango and I think I gotta get outta here all this traffic is nuts, so maybe we picked the right wide spot in the road...

Have fun looking it's a great big wonderful country we live in.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> I don't think CC will be annexed or become a cummuter town, it's quite a ways between the two towns (fifty miles).
> 
> I hear what you're saying about Prescott, but it's not gonna stay that way for long, there's just too much development pressure in the surrounding area and you're too close to Phoenix. When it's discovered, it'll be overrun, I want to avoid that.
> 
> ...


 Ashland is like Cambria or Carmel: just too precious and touristy to live in.... Not so with Jacksonville. I'm just sayin'....... Having all the stuff that tourists support nearby, but not in your face, can be pretty good. A farming and ranching valley (Applegate) with a Shakespeare festival and mini Hollywood Bowl within 20 miles is not that common.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> ...Oakridge is not going anywhere, it was a dried up logging town when I live in Eugene, it's still a dried up logging town except now it has some good trails. The winter snow and cold will keep away much of the tourism and retirees that could make it a year round town, that's mainly why it has not done better and growth will remain flat. Good riding for sure....Picky huh


Sounds like my kind of place. At least in the Summer. I do love what I have seen in my research of that area.

You know, it is good to know what you want Nurse Ben. I can admire that in a person.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SlimL said:


> Sounds like my kind of place. At least in the Summer. I do love what I have seen in my research of that area.
> 
> You know, it is good to know what you want Nurse Ben. I can admire that in a person.


I have no idea what I want, do you know what I want?

Okay, what I want is Truckee, circa 1982.

Or maybe Bend, circa 1984.

Yeah, like that, but with a good paying job so I don't have to sleep in my van...like I did back in the 80's.

Admittedly, I drive my wife crazy with all the talk of moving. I waited fifteen years in Tennessee for the kids to go off to college, picked Wenatchee, moved cross country, only to find that my desire to ski has dried up and I want to ride all the time. Though Tennessee was brutally hot and humid in the summers, it did have some sweet riding.

Anyone familiar with Montrose/Delta, CO?


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> I don't think CC will be annexed or become a cummuter town, it's quite a ways between the two towns (fifty miles).
> 
> I hear what you're saying about Prescott, but it's not gonna stay that way for long, there's just too much development pressure in the surrounding area and you're too close to Phoenix. When it's discovered, it'll be overrun, I want to avoid that.
> 
> ...


Obviously I was exaggerating about being annexed but I have a condo in Park City and have been driving thru CC since 1985. The last 5 years, that area along I-15 has exploded "tract housing wise".....just like St George. I'd bet everything I own it passes up Prescott proper in population by 2030. Same with Bend, it's population has already outgrown its infrastructure and it's only going to get worse.

I think you should keep focusing on Cortez. I PM'd you a link to check out.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

camp10 said:


> NurseBen, nice writeup and pics!
> 
> When you visit GJ, consider looking east to Glenwood Springs and perhaps Eagle. My wife and I have bought land in Eagle, and will be moving there to work part time and retire.
> 
> Eagle is a higher elevation than GJ, so it has cooler summers. It's dry and very little humidity. I'll be able to access Eagle's mountain bike trail network from the back of our lot. We like the small town feel. Oh, and having Vail and Beaver Creek a half hour away is pretty nice.


I'd love to have the trust fund needed to move to Eagle, Vail's latest bedroom community. The riding is only going to get better and if snowboarding was still a big deal to us, I'd think about knocking off a bank or two to make it happen.  It's definitely beautiful country!!


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you've been to Cortez, to compare the two places, I wonder why she liked Cortez so much and didn't find the love for CC. Other than a Specialized store a health food restaurant, and some great riding, Cortez has nothing in town, though maybe the lack of "business" on the highway going through town was the attraction...
> 
> I used to be an urban planner, practiced and taught, so I look at things with the eyes of an urban designer, sometimes this is not helpful


Heh. Edward Abbey referred to Cortez as the shithead capital of dipshit county, Colorado. It's better for what it's close to than for what it is, although it has improved, a lot. You might find there's more there than meets the eye.

I'm familiar with zoodles of comparable small Texas towns of similar population. There's always a business district as well as a neighborhood with beautiful big, two story Victorian houses, one each for the banker, the doctor and a few for the very successful businessmen. Cortez lacks that -- there's the modest business district but no big fancy houses, which speaks to a different and more modest development history in that area.

When I lived in Dolores and out on Summit Ridge between Dolores and Mancos, everyone wanted to move out of town and into the countryside; there's a large dispersed population in Montezuma County. Now though, if we move back for the summers, I'd much prefer to be close to things in town, maybe Mancos or Dolores.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> We did drive around, I wanted her to see all the areas, so we drove into the neighborhoods in Hurricane, but it's got no downtown core, and with St George so close I'd be surprised if it gets much more in the short term, but you can hope.
> 
> At CC we hung out by the college, ate pizza (great little wood fired place), went to the coffee shop (bookstore attached), drove to the resort, but she was just not into it. I think CC gonna pick up more of the college/liberal vibe, definitely a place to watch. I would move there in a second.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you've done your due diligence but when the Mrs. vetoes something the discussion pretty much stops there. We looked at plenty of houses that I really liked that she just said no, sorry, I'm not feeling it. What don't you like about it? I don't know, it's just not the one. Ok then, moving on. Luckily the one we bought we both loved and it was pretty much a done deal once we'd seen it.

I've only driven through Cortez a couple of times and, as you said, can't say that anything struck me as very interesting as far as the town itself but it does have some great trails nearby and even greater natural wonders within a decently short drive (Mesa Verde, Grand Canyon, Arches, Canyonlands, Monument Valley etc) without the touristy, high-priced vibe of a Durango/Tahoe/Jackson etc. I LOVE the four corners region in general and had I read some of the arguments for Cortez before settling on Hurricane I would've given Cortez or Mancos or Monticello a serious look.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

June Bug said:


> Heh. Edward Abbey referred to Cortez as the shithead capital of dipshit county, Colorado. It's better for what it's close to than for what it is, although it has improved, a lot. You might find there's more there than meets the eye.
> 
> I'm familiar with zoodles of comparable small Texas towns of similar population. There's always a business district as well as a neighborhood with beautiful big, two story Victorian houses, one each for the banker, the doctor and a few for the very successful businessmen. Cortez lacks that -- there's the modest business district but no big fancy houses, which speaks to a different and more modest development history in that area.
> 
> When I lived in Dolores and out on Summit Ridge between Dolores and Mancos, everyone wanted to move out of town and into the countryside; there's a large dispersed population in Montezuma County. Now though, if we move back for the summers, I'd much prefer to be close to things in town, maybe Mancos or Dolores.


I agree, Cortez is missing some things, perhaps they're coming, at least that would be our hope if we were to move there. No jobs is the biggest struggle. I just spoke with a recruiter and he doesn't remember seeing a psych job in that are in the past five years. Now my wife, she's a medical provider, she could have a job in a second!

I think my search is a little more compromised than the "retirement" folks because I still need to work, which requires a large population to feed my panel. If I were closer to retirement, I might consider starting a solo practice somewhere we really like, but that's a big risk.

Any thoughts on Montrose as a cooler, less populated alternative to Grand Junction?


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> I have no idea what I want, do you know what I want?
> 
> Okay, what I want is Truckee, circa 1982.
> 
> ...


Sure you do. Belonging, good food, entertainment, the right weather, great trails with good access and the wife to be happy. Have I left anything out? And you want it all on your terms and by your definition. Which is the only thing that really matters.

Me, I can't see myself living in Colorado. Just don't think I could quite fit in.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

I live in the great white north...

I don't get why the guys that complain about too hot in the summer....

Don't just snowbird up here for a couple of months....

Dollars down


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## TomactypeX (Aug 8, 2010)

What he said.... I like working. I may change my job, but I want a reason to get up everyday and I like being around the younger generations. No way will I do a retirement community.



SWriverstone said:


> Sorry...but...retirement? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! ROTFL!!! LMAO!!!
> ---
> Ahem...well, I don't know about everyone else here...but I have zero intention of retiring for the following reasons:
> 
> ...


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## TomactypeX (Aug 8, 2010)

Prescott is beautiful! Good luck.



k2rider1964 said:


> Just cemented our retirement plans this weekend when we bought a 1.5 acre lot in Prescott. Even though I stopped working a year ago, my wife has 6 years, 5 months and 7 days to go. We'll start the building process in about (5) years so we can move right in once she retires.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

TomactypeX said:


> What he said.... I like working. I may change my job, but I want a reason to get up everyday and I like being around the younger generations. No way will I do a retirement community.


I can find an almost endless number of reasons to get up everyday (cycling, kayaking, mountaineering, travel, good food, family...), and only a few of them have to do with "work".


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## CaptDan (Jun 26, 2013)

I'll retire at work.
It will happen between when I collapse from heart failure and the time I'm listed as brain dead.

Until then I try to keep a lot of time freed-up so I can play anytime the opportunity arises. :thumbsup:


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

SlimL said:


> I really would like to stomp snow in Driggs though.


Funny little line at the end, not only do I live in Driggs, but I help run the snow stomping every year. It's become a pretty fun little event.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

veloborealis said:


> I can find an almost endless number of reasons to get up everyday (cycling, kayaking, mountaineering, travel, good food, family...), and only a few of them have to do with "work".


Yeah I agree with that. I do know people that don't know what they would do if they retired so I can understand the sentiment.

I would also add learning something new (more geology for me) and volunteering some where also.

Slim


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

panchosdad said:


> Funny little line at the end, not only do I live in Driggs, but I help run the snow stomping every year. It's become a pretty fun little event.


Then, indeed, we will meet in person one day. I have a FB friend that lives down there also who keeps inviting me down. On my old iPad I had saved an email flyer that I got for the snow stomp just to remind me it's on my list. Even with her mobility issues Ginie thought it would be fun to come down for the Snow Festival. And I have got to ride Sidewinder at Grand Targhee.

Between Teton MTB, the GeoTourism Center, TVTAP, among other things I get such a good vibe and I need to come down and make sure it for real. For me, I get a much better vibe from Driggs then a lot of the "premier" mountain biking areas. But that is just me, the old slow guy.

See you next year maybe for Wydaho. Slim


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

SlimL said:


> Then, indeed, we will meet in person one day. I have a FB friend that lives down there also who keeps inviting me down. On my old iPad I had saved an email flyer that I got for the snow stomp just to remind me it's on my list. Even with her mobility issues Ginie thought it would be fun to come down for the Snow Festival. And I have got to ride Sidewinder at Grand Targhee.
> 
> Between Teton MTB, the GeoTourism Center, TVTAP, among other things I get such a good vibe and I need to come down and make sure it for real. For me, I get a much better vibe from Driggs then a lot of the "premier" mountain biking areas. But that is just me, the old slow guy.
> 
> See you next year maybe for Wydaho. Slim


Look forward to it.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone familiar with Hrlena MT?

Six hours to SLC, supposed to ve a biking mecca, frer in town shuttle, decent downtown, not overly touristy, lots of jobs for me and mine 

Just how vold does it get? Colder than Spokane, cold as Missoula, ...?


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Anyone familiar with Hrlena MT?
> 
> Six hours to SLC, supposed to ve a biking mecca, frer in town shuttle, decent downtown, not overly touristy, lots of jobs for me and mine
> 
> Just how vold does it get? Colder than Spokane, cold as Missoula, ...?


It is a IMBA Bronze Level Ride Center for what ever that's worth. I have only been tracking the weather there since April and on the week of 23 April it was a low of 35 and a high of 60 so it sounds pretty moderate to me. Weatherbase.com has the averages so it would be pretty easy to get an idea.

From what I have read they are bike crazy. I think they run a free weekend shuttle during the summer up to points on MacDonald Pass...Yeah checking my notes the "Happy Bus" on Fridays drops them off at Macdonalds Pass and Sat & Sun, Mt Helena Ridge trailheads. Bike Helena is the group there.

It's what I have gathered off the net so take it with a grain of salt.
Slim


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## Zirkel (Apr 15, 2004)

Sorry, but I'm late to the party... 

Everyone seems to be looking for "THE" place. Why not spend your retirement living seasonally? 

My plan is to be based out of some TBD location part of the year, then travel or rent the other part of the year. Home base should be a large town or small city, have a livable community with thriving downtown, a college or university, low crime rate, reasonable access to a major airport AND great access to SEASONAL MTB trails.

For example, why not own a small residence (or townhome with garage) in some place like Auburn or Prescott or Bellingham, and live there ONLY during the optimal season(s)? During the off-season you rent a place in Moab or Crested Butte, and AirBnb your primary residence.

This enables the possibility of RV/Sprinter travel during part of the year, or to live outside of the US.

For me, being a mountain biker AND nordic skier, I've always envisioned retiring in places like Mazama/Winthrop, WA, Hailey, ID, McCall, ID or Pagosa Springs, CO. Someplace "out there," but still a thriving community with great outdoor recreation.

And no one has mentioned Salida?!?


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## someoldfart (Mar 14, 2013)

I retired at age 58 two weeks ago. We live in Whistler full time now. I can sure see going south before skiing starts but after the rains hit mid October.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Zirkel said:


> Everyone seems to be looking for "THE" place. Why not spend your retirement living seasonally?
> 
> For example, why not own a small residence (or townhome with garage) in some place like Auburn or Prescott or Bellingham, and live there ONLY during the optimal season(s)? During the off-season you rent a place in Moab or Crested Butte, and AirBnb your primary residence.
> 
> This enables the possibility of RV/Sprinter travel during part of the year, or to live outside of the US.


There are many reasons people don't retire this way. The biggest is money. Believe it or not, the average retiree can barely keep the roof over their head, let alone own a residence in a resort area plus a $100K+ RV money pit.

The second reason is that you don't just waltz in to a cool place and rent something during the middle of the season. Moab in particular I know about, and there are *zero* places you could rent for just a few months, unless you were kicking out a *lot* of cash. I'm sure Crested Butte is the same way.

The third reason is health issues. A lot of people end up with one partner or the other needing some kind of specialized care. They find the doctor that can deal with their issues, and they are stuck in that place.

I've known a lot of people with your exact pre-retirement fantasy and I know exactly zero that have pulled it off. I do know one guy who was lamenting the other day that his parents managed to own a house in Delores when they first retired, and they wintered in an RV in Florida, but after only a few years the isolation and their health issues forced them to sell and move to Florida permanently. In their case, he was a retired police officer and had a killer pension, which very few people have these days. My friend is 50, he just got anally raped in the racket known as the Colorado divorce industry, and realizes he will never be able to do that. He'll work until he can't work any longer and then he has no idea what he'll do. He doesn't have a pension, and he has to pay an outrageous amount of alimony until he dies.


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## Zirkel (Apr 15, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> There are many reasons people don't retire this way. The biggest is money. Believe it or not, the average retiree can barely keep the roof over their head, let alone own a residence in a resort area plus a $100K+ RV money pit.
> 
> The second reason is that you don't just waltz in to a cool place and rent something during the middle of the season. Moab in particular I know about, and there are *zero* places you could rent for just a few months, unless you were kicking out a *lot* of cash. I'm sure Crested Butte is the same way.
> 
> ...


I would argue the only thing preventing this "pre-retirement fantasy" from working is not a lack of cash, but laziness and a lack of creativity in creating the type of life you want to live.

For the record, I have have lived/worked mostly in resort towns and national parks over the past thirty years: Steamboat, Sun Valley, Alta, Bishop, Bozeman, Vail, Yosemite, Denali and Antarctica. I currently live in the Truckee/Tahoe area. And waiting tables, raft guiding, ski instructing, Outward Bound, etc in order to live in those places did not result in reliable retirement savings.

I'm not advocating owning a residence in a resort town, but in a "desirable" location within easy access to that resort town and it's recreational amenities. Cortez seem to be a popular location in this thread with it's proximity to Durango, etc. And most of the areas I've suggested for basing yourself out of are within close proximity to quality health care (as an RN, this is also something I know a bit about). For me, I'm considering the Gardnerville/ Minden area, south of Carson City, for setting up a home base. This provides easy access to Lake Tahoe, the Eastern Sierra and the Reno airport.

Additionally, I'm not advocating "waltzing in" to any resort town mid-season and expecting to find a reasonably-priced rental. But by understanding how seasonal resort economies operate it is more than reasonable to expect to find a decent place to live in any resort town during the shoulder/mud season. There is a strategy involved, and a willingness to make it happen.

I still intend to spend a summer in Crested Butte. And a winter in Moab. And a summer in Vancouver. And a winter in Sedona. The challenge is how to make that work utilizing the internet and my location-neutral job skills. I don't ever intend to stop working, but rather transition to seasonal employment to supplement my meager retirement savings.

My point is that you can make an alternative retirement work, living in and traveling to amazing places, taking advantage of internet resources, such as AirBnb, on a limited retirement income.

Here's an example: My friend Paul, who is 62 and has little in the way of retirement savings, spent the Winter surfing in Cabo San Lucas. He rented a 2-bedroom house for $300/month and AirBnb'd his guest room. This completely paid for his rent and food during the Winter.

So call it a fantasy, if you will, but from my experience the only thing preventing you from making it work is laziness and lack of creativity.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Zirkel said:


> I would argue the only thing preventing this "pre-retirement fantasy" from working is not a lack of cash, but laziness and a lack of creativity in creating the type of life you want to live.
> 
> For the record, I have have lived/worked mostly in resort towns and national parks over the past thirty years: Steamboat, Sun Valley, Alta, Bishop, Bozeman, Vail, Yosemite, Denali and Antarctica. I currently live in the Truckee/Tahoe area. And waiting tables, raft guiding, ski instructing, Outward Bound, etc in order to live in those places did not result in reliable retirement savings.
> 
> ...


Good luck with all that.

I'm going to guess that you are not married and don't have kids, at least not kids that you are close to.

Many resort towns in the US have banned AirBnB rooms. Moab is one.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Zirkel said:


> I would argue the only thing preventing this "pre-retirement fantasy" from working is not a lack of cash, but laziness and a lack of creativity in creating the type of life you want to live.
> 
> For the record, I have have lived/worked mostly in resort towns and national parks over the past thirty years: Steamboat, Sun Valley, Alta, Bishop, Bozeman, Vail, Yosemite, Denali and Antarctica. I currently live in the Truckee/Tahoe area. And waiting tables, raft guiding, ski instructing, Outward Bound, etc in order to live in those places did not result in reliable retirement savings.
> 
> ...


 It's fine if you are the only guy in town doing the Airbnb thing, but once a few hundred join in it changes the town, the neighborhood and your relations with your neighbors. Obviously your pal does not need to worry, he's in for a few months and then gone. But I pity his neighbors living next to a short time hotel and I wonder if his lease allowed him to sublet on a nightly basis........

IMHO enjoy it while you can, communities are recognizing the impact of unregulated hotels and are responding with regulation and bans.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Zirkel said:


> I would argue the only thing preventing this "pre-retirement fantasy" from working is not a lack of cash, but laziness and a lack of creativity in creating the type of life you want to live.
> 
> For the record, I have have lived/worked mostly in resort towns and national parks over the past thirty years: Steamboat, Sun Valley, Alta, Bishop, Bozeman, Vail, Yosemite, Denali and Antarctica. I currently live in the Truckee/Tahoe area. And waiting tables, raft guiding, ski instructing, Outward Bound, etc in order to live in those places did not result in reliable retirement savings.
> 
> ...


It's not the worst plan in the world and just as long as you had a cooperative wife/partner/whatever and "reasonable" lodging expectations, I think it could be done. I have some friends that live in Mesa, AZ (7) months a year and then RV it in Pagosa Springs the other (5) months but they have BIG $$. His son just bought 140 acres in Texas and will live there all but the hottest months...when he will be in Orange County, CA. He also has HUUUGGGEE money.

I on the other hand have (2) kids, both Army officers, so my "travel" when I'm not riding near my retirement home in Prescott will be going to visit the kids and future grandkids.....maybe in that Sprinter motorhome


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

k2rider1964 said:


> I on the other hand have (2) kids, both Army officers, so my "travel" when I'm not riding near my retirement home in Prescott will be going to visit the kids and future grandkids.....maybe in that Sprinter motorhome


Hey K2
Rode Prescott on Saturday and as you know, the trails are great but the funny thing is that PV held a full on moto race right in town:eekster:
Cheap gas, cheap housing, great riding, open carry, no taxes, and now Moto in town:thumbsup:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SlimL said:


> It is a IMBA Bronze Level Ride Center for what ever that's worth. I have only been tracking the weather there since April and on the week of 23 April it was a low of 35 and a high of 60 so it sounds pretty moderate to me. Weatherbase.com has the averages so it would be pretty easy to get an idea.
> 
> From what I have read they are bike crazy. I think they run a free weekend shuttle during the summer up to points on MacDonald Pass...Yeah checking my notes the "Happy Bus" on Fridays drops them off at Macdonalds Pass and Sat & Sun, Mt Helena Ridge trailheads. Bike Helena is the group there.
> 
> ...


It's an IMBA Silver Level ride center, sounds like town revolves around bikes, early season melt out, not terribly cold or snowy

We're meeting the kids there for a long weekend at the end of summer, just to look around 

Six hours to SLC, which halves our drive, still not the ideal riding; I prefer Utah and Colorado, but it's better than Wenatchee.


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

Good luck with the "summer in Crested Butte". I would recommend that you begin your shopping around for a summer place now. You will also want to plan on paying a high cost (see VRBO pricing) for your stay. Summer housing in Crested Butte is at a premium. The major drainages are becoming homeless camps as local workers try to find a way to stay in the area. You can find yourself a summer rental but you will pay for it. 

Your other option is to RV it but you will need to stay in Gunnison or at the one RV Campground in CB (booked well in advance). You can also do dispersed. But if you do expect the Forest Service to come knocking every 14 days telling you to move on. 

Now, if your intent is to come over during mud season. Yep, housing will be easy to find. However, the mud season here is very different than you experienced in Truckee or even Steamboat. You may want to do some additional research on CB. We are unique in many ways. Our seasons up are shorter. Our off seasons are colder and darker. We are just beginning to see green around here. Oh, and our housing is more limited. Don't expect that part to change anytime soon. Gunnison County is not well run. Never has been, never will be. Things move very slowly around here. By the time a decision is made to expand housing opportunities, the market will likely be crashing again.

As for quality healthcare? Not here. There is a reason a lot of us travel to Denver or Grand Junction for care. Good luck, I like your passion.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> It's an IMBA Silver Level ride center, sounds like town revolves around bikes, early season melt out, not terribly cold or snowy
> 
> We're meeting the kids there for a long weekend at the end of summer, just to look around
> 
> Six hours to SLC, which halves our drive, still not the ideal riding; I prefer Utah and Colorado, but it's better than Wenatchee.


Thanks for the update. I have added that to my notes. Please, as you have done in the past let me know how that turns out. It is on my list of places I want to check out.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

JakeCB said:


> Good luck with the "summer in Crested Butte". I would recommend that you begin your shopping around for a summer place now. You will also want to plan on paying a high cost (see VRBO pricing) for your stay. Summer housing in Crested Butte is at a premium. The major drainages are becoming homeless camps as local workers try to find a way to stay in the area. You can find yourself a summer rental but you will pay for it.
> 
> Your other option is to RV it but you will need to stay in Gunnison or at the one RV Campground in CB (booked well in advance). You can also do dispersed. But if you do expect the Forest Service to come knocking every 14 days telling you to move on.
> 
> ...


I know it's just me but I really can't see spending much time in a resort town. Even a relatively small one like Sun Valley the median housing price is in the $908K Plus neighbor hood and the median wage is about $60K (citydata.com) Yeah I am going to visit Park City, Moad and the like but not for very long. There are so many little known places that bear exploring.

It all depends what you are looking for and what you are willing to do for it.

Yeah and I like your passion.


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## mces (Apr 12, 2011)

I am surprised Boise, Idaho and the surrounding valley hasn't been mentioned. I live in Eagle, Idaho which is a small bedroom community to Boise (which there are many of) and just love it. 
While I am not retired I am 6 months short of 60 and have lived in the Boise area for almost 25 years.
Boise has a high desert climate (about 12" of precip a year) is not to cold in the winter, unless there is an inversion in the valley where the cold air gets trapped...but when that happens it is just the opposite once you get above about 5000' (warmer and sunny). Gets pretty hot in July and August though, but the high mountains are only 1-2 hours drive.
Good healthcare, a decent university(Boise State), affordable housing ( around $200,000 median price), and a very friendly population. You can live very near to down town or in any one of the smaller communities surrounding Boise...if you don't mind living out just a bit you can get 5-10 acre spreads for very reasonable $'s.

Now the fun part, mountain biking is fantastic and getting better every year with new trails being added all the time. Boise/Eagle is a IMBA Gold Level riding center with about 200 miles of trails, with a real commitment from the community to maintain and preserve open space and trails. You can start from any number of spots in town and ride a all the way up to Bogus Basin ski resort on all single track (well over 4000' elevation gain) and Bogus Basin has an extensive trail system which is rideable from June through October, and is a decent ski resort (Dec-Mar) where a season pass is only $300. The lower trails are great from March-November and rideable all winter when they are frozen.

I really love it here. I grew up and lived in New York (Long Island) till 18, then 
Florida for about 15, and the last 24 in Idaho.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Boise has been mentioned by a few folks. My son just graduated from Boise State so we're up there a couple times a year to visit and watch a football game. There are many, many things I like about the town and admittedly have never ridden up there but it doesn't *look* appealing. The first time I flew into Boise, I was stunned by the lack of trees overall. I thought it was going to be like Sun Valley. I personally prefer to ride in forested areas rather than the barren foothills that Boise has in the immediate area. Even the drive up to Bogus was pretty plain & unappealing. All that being said, I can't say I've done enough research (or made an effort at all) of the area as it relates to MTB riding.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I personally love Boise. People are so friendly and a lot of things are reasonable priced. I don't mind the "barren" landscape because I feel that everything has it's own beauty. There is also Pocatello with 60 miles of single track right out of the city. Drive up to Sun Valley for the trees and coolness when it gets hot. Now there is amountain biking jewel. Of course unless you're rich you would never be able to afford to live there.


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## Coastie3202 (Jun 3, 2016)

speedyd said:


> I am 62 avid cyclist,Road and mountain.Want to retire somewhere where I can do both and hang out with like minded.Have been looking at retirement communities,not old folk homes,but places like saddlebrooke in Arizona.Plan on visiting Bend Oregon,Boise Idaho,St George Utah and others.Open to suggestions.Dont like humidty.That sort of rules out Florida.I think Georgia has some biking north of Atlanta.What are all you old guys thinking?


Sounds like you need to retire in Oregon, but west of the Cascade Mountains. Bend is a beautiful spot but winters will more than likely keep you off the bike unless you like snow and/or freezing fog. I retired from a job in New Mexico and moved just south of Eugene, Oregon and found the cost of living to be lower than New Mexico. No humidity to speak of, and when you do have some it is rare and low. And did I mention that there are national parks everywhere, Oregon is bike friendly, and the people here rock.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Boise gets really hot, the in town riding is not that great, driving an hour plus to ride is good for weekends, but not for midweek. It's also a big city, lots of shopping options, but that makes it on the crowded side. Winter season crowds out biking, not really a year round biking spot.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Boise gets really hot, the in town riding is not that great, driving an hour plus to ride is good for weekends, but not for midweek. It's also a big city, lots of shopping options, but that makes it on the crowded side. Winter season crowds out biking, not really a year round biking spot.


Yeah, even though I love it I wouldn't live there permanently. I specially don't want to live in a big city any more: Seattle can be pretty sucky sometimes. Although I do like the fact that Towers of Power is only 10 minutes from my house and Black Diamond 35.

Going to have to have that trail I love that I can ride to from the house.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SlimL said:


> ..
> 
> Going to have to have that trail I love that I can ride to from the house.


^This is it, a trail from my house that I love. I have a hiking trail from my house that I love, next place I live it'll be a mtb trail too.

I think that's why I would lean toward a place like Helena, CC, GJ, or Cortez, living on a trail or within a trail network, that's happiness. I can always drive for variety, but there's no better solution than your own backyard.

I'm on a locum job in Vancouver WA for another week, I've been able to do some good riding; Blackrock, Tarbell, Camas, Post Canyon, etc... but they are all drives over thirty minutes.

Good riding from my backyard...


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I think that's why I would lean toward a place like Helena, CC, GJ, or Cortez, living on a trail or within a trail network, that's happiness.


I can't think of many/any places in Cortez CO with a trail in your backyard, unless your backyard was Dolores.
Not trying to be ornery, but Cortez does not have nearly the same backyard trail access as Durango, not even close.
While I am at it, I am sure other areas in the country have great trail access, but I'm willing to bet not very many can match what Durango offers.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

cbrossman said:


> I can't think of many/any places in Cortez CO with a trail in your backyard, unless your backyard was Dolores.
> Not trying to be ornery, but Cortez does not have nearly the same backyard trail access as Durango, not even close.
> While I am at it, I am sure other areas in the country have great trail access, but I'm willing to bet not very many can match what Durango offers.


Not trying to be ornery, but most people don't have $500K to spend on a house in retirement.

Maybe we should start a survey: How much will you want to spend on the house to which you retire?

I'll go first: $300K max.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> ^This is it, a trail from my house that I love. I have a hiking trail from my house that I love, next place I live it'll be a mtb trail too.
> 
> Good riding from my backyard...


Moab?

Riding from town you can hit a LOT of trail mileage.


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## jfudge02 (Mar 24, 2016)

Oregon is really nice. Rolling hills provide a good selection of trails geared towards your styles. The winters are getting milder too. Property value is relatively low and rising.


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## Zirkel (Apr 15, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> Not trying to be ornery, but most people don't have $500K to spend on a house in retirement.
> 
> Maybe we should start a survey: How much will you want to spend on the house to which you retire?
> 
> I'll go first: $300K max.


I've been looking in the sub $225K neighborhood for a fairly new construction 2-bedroom townhome with garage. This would suit our needs perfectly (gf and cat).

Again, looking at large towns/small cities with easy and plentiful recreation and trail access. Some candidates include:

Pagosa Springs, CO
Auburn, CA
Spearfish, SD
Hailey, ID
McCall, ID
Gardnerville/Minden, NV

Been through Pagosa Springs many years ago and recall really liking the terrain. It seems like it would be a reasonably-priced gateway into what Durango had to offer. Otherwise don't know much about it.

Hailey has A LOT to offer as far as recreation goes (I also nordic ski), and proximity to Ketchum and the Sawtooths. Easy access to Twin Falls and shopping. McCall is also really nice but OUT THERE. Boise, to me, is just too damn hot and barren.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Zirkel said:


> I've been looking in the sub $225K neighborhood for a fairly new construction 2-bedroom townhome with garage. This would suit our needs perfectly (gf and cat).
> 
> Again, looking at large towns/small cities with easy and plentiful recreation and trail access. Some candidates include:
> 
> ...


A friend of mine has a house in Pagosa and loves it. He can ride his MTB, dirt bike or snowmobile right out his driveway. There is a NFS trailhead right at the end of the street. It does snow and get cold down there, but if you like winter sports as well as summer, it is great, Wolf Creek Ski area is right up the road. He bought about 10 years ago and I know prices have escalated but you can still get some nice houses down there for $200K. It is too isolated for a lot of people, and I don't know about the health care situation. I'm pretty sure the "culture" is not to the liking of a lot of people, either, especially East Coast and Cali. Pagosa is pretty heavily Texan.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Zirkel said:


> I've been looking in the sub $225K neighborhood for a fairly new construction 2-bedroom townhome with garage. This would suit our needs perfectly (gf and cat).
> 
> Again, looking at large towns/small cities with easy and plentiful recreation and trail access. Some candidates include:
> 
> ...


I have relatives between Durango & Pagosa Springs and go back every year to both cities. There is TONS of forest access all along the highway and over the years, we've checked out most of them on the dirt bikes. The biggest problem with the area for MTBr's is there is very little singletrack to speak of. Even most of the stuff we can punch thru on dirt bikes would be a major PITA on a mountain bike. I think it has tons of potential but who knows if that will ever be realized.

My son lives in Boise so we've been out to McCall as well. Talk about a nothing of a town. If you need anything at all, you'll be trekking it back to Boise and forget about decent medical care in McCall. The lake and surrounding trails are beautiful though.


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## Zirkel (Apr 15, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> I have relatives between Durango & Pagosa Springs and go back every year to both cities. There is TONS of forest access all along the highway and over the years, we've checked out most of them on the dirt bikes. The biggest problem with the area for MTBr's is there is very little singletrack to speak of. Even most of the stuff we can punch thru on dirt bikes would be a major PITA on a mountain bike. I think it has tons of potential but who knows if that will ever be realized.
> 
> My son lives in Boise so we've been out to McCall as well. Talk about a nothing of a town. If you need anything at all, you'll be trekking it back to Boise and forget about decent medical care in McCall. The lake and surrounding trails are beautiful though.


All good input. Whittling that list down...


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Am I the only one made uncomfortable by the large numbers of Neo-Nazis, Sovereign Citizens, National Redoubters and other cultists in the Idaho, Montana, Eastern Oregon and Washington area? Living amongst Bro-culture is one thing, but moving to the heartland of the armed White Supremacist movement? No way!


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

WoodlandHills said:


> Am I the only one made uncomfortable by the large numbers of Neo-Nazis, Sovereign Citizens, National Redoubters and other cultists in the Idaho, Montana, Eastern Oregon and Washington area? Living amongst Bro-culture is one thing, but moving to the heartland of the armed White Supremacist movement? No way!


I'm aware that these groups have gravitated to the inland northwest, but are there enough of them to impact the daily life of the rest of reasonable, law-abiding citizens? I'd like to hear from MTBR members who live in the region.

I'm moving to north central AZ soon, and in general I don't support the stereotypical AZ positions on many issues. But I've lived there in the past and have found enough like-minded people to feel comfortable.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

I am not worried about interacting directly with such people (I am white), but what about a situation like in Oregon recently? I am guessing that the folks in Burns were affected by what went on at the wildlife refuge, ditto for Ruby Ridge. And what about the massive Nazi compound up in Hayden Lake, did they ever clear them out? It would be a bummer to buy land and find out your neighbors are the Bundys or Warren Jeffs......


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

WoodlandHills said:


> It would be a bummer to buy land and find out your neighbors are the Bundys or Warren Jeffs......


Or hand wringing alarmists.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

WoodlandHills said:


> I am not worried about interacting directly with such people (I am white), but what about a situation like in Oregon recently? I am guessing that the folks in Burns were affected by what went on at the wildlife refuge, ditto for Ruby Ridge. And what about the massive Nazi compound up in Hayden Lake, did they ever clear them out? It would be a bummer to buy land and find out your neighbors are the Bundys or Warren Jeffs......


Because those incidents you mentioned are sooooo much worse than the LA riots right? Yet *presumably* you have no problem living in SoCal.

My son lives in Boise so I've been to Idaho many times, traveling all thru the state and have previously vacationed in Sun Valley. I have seen ZERO evidence of anything "***********" related on my visits. It also happens to be, by far, the cleanest state I've ever been in. Very little litter or graffiti. As a matter of fact, the 1st graffiti I ever noticed was on my last trip in May.

Now compare that to Southern California where I live, and presumably you as well with a name like Woodland Hills, and I've definitely seen plenty of people touting "black power" and "brown pride" at many events I've worked. The quality of life up there (aside form out almost perfect weather) is far superior to that of SoCal.


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

k2rider1964 said:


> Because those incidents you mentioned are sooooo much worse than the LA riots right? Yet *presumably* you have no problem living in SoCal.
> 
> My son lives in Boise so I've been to Idaho many times, traveling all thru the state and have previously vacationed in Sun Valley. I have seen ZERO evidence of anything "***********" related on my visits. It also happens to be, by far, the cleanest state I've ever been in. Very little litter or graffiti. As a matter of fact, the 1st graffiti I ever noticed was on my last trip in May.
> 
> Now compare that to Southern California where I live, and presumably you as well with a name like Woodland Hills, and I've definitely seen plenty of people touting "black power" and "brown pride" at many events I've worked. The quality of life up there (aside form out almost perfect weather) is far superior to that of SoCal.


 Ok, it does not bother you. No problem.......

There is nothing wrong with expressing xxxxx power or xxxxxx pride, but xxxx supremacy is a bit of a different matter. It is one thing to be proud of who you are and where you came from, but that is not the same as saying it makes you superior: only members of one group make that claim AFAIK?


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

cbrossman said:


> I can't think of many/any places in Cortez CO with a trail in your backyard, unless your backyard was Dolores.
> Not trying to be ornery, but Cortez does not have nearly the same backyard trail access as Durango, not even close.
> While I am at it, I am sure other areas in the country have great trail access, but I'm willing to bet not very many can match what Durango offers.


Durango is a wonderful place for sure. The difficulty with Durango has to do with the insanely high cost of real estate. And the intensity of tourism, especially in the summer. Cortez is affordable. And it does have an expanding trail system on the north edge of town.



> A local landowner [and mountain biker!] is proposing a new trailhead off N. Mildred Road to access the Geer Natural Area trail system.
> 
> Keith Evans has already leased 40 acres of his property adjacent to the Geer Natural Area to the city of Cortez for public access. The area is northwest of Southwest Memorial Hospital and the Carpenter Natural Area, and is a popular recreation area for the town.
> 
> ...


Dolores and Cortez are an hour closer to Moab, Canyonlands and Fruita/Grand Junction.

In terms of Dolores, a new trail is going in that can be accessed from town, by the old cemetery. It will go to the House Creek Campground and connect into the Boggy Draw Trail System.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

WoodlandHills said:


> Am I the only one made uncomfortable by the large numbers of Neo-Nazis, Sovereign Citizens, National Redoubters and other cultists in the Idaho, Montana, Eastern Oregon and Washington area? Living amongst Bro-culture is one thing, but moving to the heartland of the armed White Supremacist movement? No way!


Excellent! Another reason to move to Idaho.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

SlimL said:


> Excellent! Another reason to move to Idaho.


l dunno. They may hate bicyclists even more, especially if they am riding in front of their pickup truck.


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## mfn_pie (Jun 7, 2016)

This is my first post here, but I feel the need to chime in. I grew up in N. Idaho, a good part of it was in Hayden Lake, and I was there when the whole Aryan thing blew up on the media circuit over 25 years ago. Granted, I was quite young then, and I am only 37 now.

Growing up there, I never saw any of it in the schools, in town, literally anywhere. It really did not affect me on any level until I moved to Oregon a few years later and got ridiculed because of where I was from. 

Edit: I would like to end up in Bend or Sandpoint for my retirement.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

mfn_pie said:


> This is my first post here, but I feel the need to chime in. I grew up in N. Idaho, a good part of it was in Hayden Lake, and I was there when the whole Aryan thing blew up on the media circuit over 25 years ago. Granted, I was quite young then, and I am only 37 now.
> 
> Growing up there, I never saw any of it in the schools, in town, literally anywhere. It really did not affect me on any level until I moved to Oregon a few years later and got ridiculed because of where I was from.
> 
> Edit: I would like to end up in Bend or Sandpoint for my retirement.


^^^^ Great first post and welcome to the forum :thumbsup:

There are areas/cultures all over this land and we know about most of them. Maybe you agree or not and it would be your choice to live there. 
Please don't get into a pissing match in a debate of your ideas on the forum. It never seems to work out well...

It's really nice to here what people like or dislike about parts of the country that many have never thought about or visited.
I've always told my wife we should retire in Idaho and she would say "you never hear anything about Idaho" to which I would reply "exactly!"


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

andytiedye said:


> l dunno. They may hate bicyclists even more, especially if they am riding in front of their pickup truck.


Unless they are driving on the trails, I don't think I will be riding in front of any pick up trucks. Or cars. Don't care much for asphalt and concrete.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Dirtrider127 said:


> ^^^^ Great first post and welcome to the forum :thumbsup:
> 
> There are areas/cultures all over this land and we know about most of them. Maybe you agree or not and it would be your choice to live there.
> Please don't get into a pissing match in a debate of your ideas on the forum. It never seems to work out well...
> ...


Here Here. Specially the part about not getting into a pissing match. I like that idea.


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## APEXCYCLEZ (Jun 13, 2016)

Just retired myself this last month, we live in Duncan AZ right next to the NM border and we have all the farm roads dirt roads, black top roads and mountain trails a feller can stand. We love it out here and plan on biting the bullet here for the big sleep here too. Shoot theres plenty of places in the USA a guy can go..............just load up the truck and go for a ride for a couple months in the summer and in the winter and find out how hot and cold you can handle.........your only in the world once, make an adventure out of it!
Good luck to ya!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

WoodlandHills said:


> Am I the only one made uncomfortable by the large numbers of Neo-Nazis, Sovereign Citizens, National Redoubters and other cultists in the Idaho, Montana, Eastern Oregon and Washington area? Living amongst Bro-culture is one thing, but moving to the heartland of the armed White Supremacist movement? No way!


We're in Central Washington now, we lived in the Southeast USA for ~20 years. I'm not sure where you get your facts, but the gun slinging white supremists are not restricted to the Northwest. Try the bible belt on for size.

There are overzealous arsehats everywhere, given a choice I'd pick a rural area over a city without a second thought as those folks tend to have more investment in the community. Bros don't care about anyone but themselves, that gets old real fast, esp for us old folk


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## mfn_pie (Jun 7, 2016)

Dirtrider127 said:


> ^^^^ Great first post and welcome to the forum :thumbsup:
> 
> There are areas/cultures all over this land and we know about most of them. Maybe you agree or not and it would be your choice to live there.
> Please don't get into a pissing match in a debate of your ideas on the forum. It never seems to work out well...
> ...


No intent for a pissing match. Just posting observations.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

APEXCYCLEZ said:


> Just retired myself this last month, we live in Duncan AZ right next to the NM border and we have all the farm roads dirt roads, black top roads and mountain trails a feller can stand. We love it out here and plan on biting the bullet here for the big sleep here too. Shoot theres plenty of places in the USA a guy can go..............just load up the truck and go for a ride for a couple months in the summer and in the winter and find out how hot and cold you can handle.........your only in the world once, make an adventure out of it!
> Good luck to ya!


Sounds like an awesome place. Elevation is 3,796'

From Sperling's Best Places: 


> Duncan, Arizona, gets 11 inches of rain per year. The US average is 37. Snowfall is 1 inche. The average US city gets 25 inches of snow per year. The number of days with any measurable precipitation is 47.
> 
> On average, *there are 288 sunny days per year in Duncan, Arizona*. The July high is around 96 degrees. The January low is 23. Our comfort index, which is based on humidity during the hot months, is a 57 out of 100, where higher is more comfortable. The US average on the comfort index is 44.


I think there's something to be said for arid and semi-arid locations at higher elevations...maybe because I'm from central Texas, but a high of 96* with low humidity* doesn't sound bad at all.


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## mtnbkrdr98 (May 27, 2004)

Hi Speedyd,

have you made the big move yet?
I live in Boise. I'm originally from Southern Cal
It's a pretty decent area - good road riding and a lot of singletrack trails that keep getting linked together more and more in foothills, plus riding up on the local mountain and better riding not that far trip north a few hours.

On the comfort factor I think we are pretty high, with very low humidity.
That being said, I know someone from old biking club in SoCal who did move to GA to be near family/Grand kids and he posts up pics of rides on FB and looks like he's really enjoying it there.


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## speedyd (Mar 10, 2004)

Havent done anything yet.Visited Asheville,tucson,Georgetown texas.I want ot check out boise and northern Georgia for sure.Really happy with all the response here and great input,mostly.Thanks


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Love Tucson. Specially Thanksgiving.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Was looking at some of the trails down around Oakridge, Or and they look pretty nice. Downloaded the MVUM for Umpqua National Forest on to my iPad and saw that they let non-street licensed vehicles drive on a lot of their forest roads. I could get me an Arizona Shuttle Vehicle and spend the summers there maybe.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Take a look at Helena, town is kinda scrappy, but the riding is solid, healthcare is good, cost of living is fair.

We really like Bozeman, but it's way too cold in the winter.


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## Fuzzle (Mar 31, 2015)

I'm from So Cal.. I moved to Bend, Or 11 years ago. Bend is growing fast. I'm thinking about making a change when I retire. Many are moving here to retire and I'm thinking about leaving when I retire...ha ha! Thinking about Whitefish Montana. I may have to visit before I decide.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Fuzzle said:


> I'm from So Cal.. I moved to Bend, Or 11 years ago. Bend is growing fast. I'm thinking about making a change when I retire. Many are moving here to retire and I'm thinking about leaving when I retire...ha ha! Thinking about Whitefish Montana. I may have to visit before I decide.


Yeah, the Bend of my yoot is no more. I like the idea of Bend, I like the area, and like all the outdoor options, but like so many nice little spots, it's not so little anymore.

Seriously, check out Helena, it's on the cusp of some greatness.

I'd move to Bozeman in a heartbeat if it didn't get so durn frosty.


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## Fuzzle (Mar 31, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> Yeah, the Bend of my yoot is no more. I like the idea of Bend, I like the area, and like all the outdoor options, but like so many nice little spots, it's not so little anymore.
> 
> Seriously, check out Helena, it's on the cusp of some greatness.
> 
> I'd move to Bozeman in a heartbeat if it didn't get so durn frosty.


Where is Helena? Now I'm curious.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

*helena is the capital of MT*



Fuzzle said:


> Where is Helena? Now I'm curious.


and its located east of the continental divide south of great fall, north of butte nw of bozeman

Ben,
if you liked Bozeman but is too cold maybe check out the flathead valley- west of the divide so a bit warmer, great and rapidly expanding medical community. Ranks 6th on single tracks list of riding areas. i believe real-estate here is a bit less too, depending of where tin the valley. Sunshine is limited late fall/early winter but it never presses down on you like on the wet side or in appalachia. Easy to get away from people, but also a lot going on. For us at least a great sense of community as well.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Now I've got this Frank Zappa song going through my head.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

*no more dental floss tycoons*

we have enough already thanks



andytiedye said:


> Now I've got this Frank Zappa song going through my head.


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

I grew up in Montana and will likely retire there as well. These three are on my radar:

Missoula - nice college town, solid MTB riding, good social scene, good skiing but on a rundown hill

Whitefish - probably more outdoor options, but very busy hiking trails during tourist season, MTB is good and growing, great ski hill

Helena - capital city, decent social scene, sounds like good MTB, but 1hr or more to ski hills (but several options and all are good).


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

I think largely you are correct i would add a couple of points.

Missoula- rapid growth has had an effect on traffic and infrastructure, seems very prone to inversion and air quality issues the past few years- near to town riding probably has a longer season than whitefish but shorter than helena. Much more of a city feel than whitefish but also has more music and culture options. I believe probably less riding nearby than the flathead. Re. skiing- Snowbowl management seems to have a ton of detractors - i can't speak personally. It also seems like they having quality and quantity issues with reared to snowfall. terrain wise they are set.

Whitefish-really the only crowded trails are in Glacier, which is becoming a victim of its own success. there a tons of other options where you would rarely see people. On the whole though the residents are quite active in the outdoors. Riding opportunities here are increasing fairly quickly and are varied, the area has even started to register the economic impact of cycle tourism. The convergence of 3 or ACA's major routes here adds to the cycling flavor and i get a kick out of seeing people from all over the world touring by my house. Road riding options exist and are nice but are dwarfed by the dirt and trail resource.
As far as skiing, i would be remiss if i did not mention the fog that can occur on our mountain, you do get somewhat used to it and learn how to compensate but some folks really don't like it. I guess it keeps the numbers down.

One negative regarding cycling here is that winter lasts longer than in missoula or Helena

Its probably better to think of the flathead region than just whitefish proper. You have housing and community options such as whitefish and big fork (resort towns) and others such as Kalispell and columbia falls (more traditional towns). Travel around the valley is largely quick and simple so to some extent all the towns are in play. You can ride out of whitefish to dirt in several directions.

Helena- everyone i know who lives there loves it and it has a good cycling culture. Longer riding season than the west side options. Worst choice of the three for the hard core skier



Iowagriz said:


> I grew up in Montana and will likely retire there as well. These three are on my radar:
> 
> Missoula - nice college town, solid MTB riding, good social scene, good skiing but on a rundown hill
> 
> ...


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

threepin said:


> I think largely you are correct i would add a couple of points.
> 
> Whitefish-really the only crowded trails are in Glacier, which is becoming a victim of its own success.
> 
> ...


My wife is from Lakeside, went to Kalispell High and the inlaws retired a couple decades ago to the east side of the lake in Bigfork. We've been going up a few times a year for the better part of 15 years now from Fort Collins, CO where we live. If you want to ride to dirt, a Whitefish address would be the best as you are pedaling significant pavement from almost everywhere else on a highway for a good part of the trip in search of dirt.

Coming from Fort Collins, a few observations. Lower cost of living than Front Range all around though Whitefish is about the same as the Front Range now it seems. It's an amazing spot to live in the summer, though the winters are truly tough compared to what we have down here on the Front Range and skiing "Big Mountain" with all of the snow ghosts and fog is strange for us with total bluebird days. Those that love real winter will really love it up in the Flathead Valley. My wife used to have to gather so much wood in the summer she was traumatized and I couldn't even talk her into a wood stove in our basement. We've been a few times over Christmas and have not seen the sun or blue sky the entire trip and the temps hovering below 20f the entire trip. My inlaws are in Tucson the entire month of March, and come back in April to mud season and more cold/snow/rain in April/May for perspective. Once mid June hits it's amazing up there until October/November.

Biggest traffic jam up there I've seen is making the left turn into the Costco! Regarding "Flathead region" it seems like we are in the car 30-40 minutes heading all over the valley for various things whenever we are up there. A few of my wife's friends still live there and they are all putting 15,000+ miles a year on their vehicles just getting around the valley, but they are in Columbia Falls and Whitefish and work in Kalispell. This is tough to swallow when in Fort Collins everything is within 4 miles or less, and we can ride 4 miles of paved bike path trails literally from downtown to dirt.

Like anywhere, you do have to choose your spot wisely and I would suggest a 6 month rental before making the final plunge.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

good points, before someone moved here( or anywhere) , they should spend the shittiest part of the year there at least once. Here i think thats november and junuary. We tend to travel then or i work more. Seems that most who come from really sunny places like front range or socal have issues with the grey in the winter. The last few years have trended sunnier and spring has been really nice -I've done a fair amount of riding the last couple of February's. No doubt this will change and we will get real winter again- i think that there will be some shocked folks. I laughed about the costco comment, i can't wait till that bypass is done this fall. I like the fact that the towns are a bit spread out rather than a metropolis- to each his own i guess. Been splitting wood the last couple of days so you are right on there. Whitefish does have a lot more riding right out of town but the trend in the other towns is getting better what with lakeside to blacktail trail near lakeside, herron park and lone pine near kalispell. Crane mtn etc.near big fork. I hardly drive, but then i either telecommute or fly to work. Its a much better place to bring a job or retire than to try to find a good one .


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

@threepin @2melow All good points, I lived in Columbia Falls for my high school years and still get back there once a year. WF would be perfect for access to trails and the ski bus. Perfect scenario is living within walking distance to downtown. Short walk to the ski bus in the winter, short ride to the trails in the summer. Reality is that I'll likely purchase or inherit my parents house. Nice location on the Flathead River next to the Veterans Home.

General advice for anyone moving to Montana - the shoulder seasons suck. Late March/April/early May and again in late Oct/Nov/early Dec. Snow is melting in the spring and trails are not ready. Not enough snow in the fall, so ski hill is not ready. Be prepared to get out of town a few times a year to get some sun and riding during those periods. If you are a fisherperson or hunter, then those might be good season, but I am neither.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

These last 5-7 posts regarding Montana have been some of there most informative I've read on MTBR in quite a while. Great job folks and than you for taking the time to be so thorough. We, well actually "I", looked into the Big Fork area but my wife didn't want to deal with the potentially brutal Winter's. After living in SoCal her entire life, 20 degrees would be considered brutal to her even though she grew up a skier.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

I don't tend to think of the cold here (flathead) as brutal, Below zero highs do occur but they aren't common and its what they make warm clothing for. Too, except for the arctic inflows which are a handful of days a year most of the time when they morning lows are below zero its calm and doesn't really feel cold. West of the divide in general its less windy than in the east and the temps are more consistent. If you live here you get a chance to acclimate as the hot weather stops pretty early. I travel a lot for work and i find humidity to be much harder to deal with

I have 2 sets of neighbors from TX and 1 from South Florida and i am always surprised at how well they deal with the cold on their winter ski vacations.

I would think coming from Socal that a bigger issue would be the gray and cold rains of late fall



k2rider1964 said:


> These last 5-7 posts regarding Montana have been some of there most informative I've read on MTBR in quite a while. Great job folks and than you for taking the time to be so thorough. We, well actually "I", looked into the Big Fork area but my wife didn't want to deal with the potentially brutal Winter's. After living in SoCal her entire life, 20 degrees would be considered brutal to her even though she are up a skier.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Helena has got a Shuttle Fest coming up on the 12th of August. Short notice but would be a great time to visit and see the riding. Get on the Happy Bus.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Elliott Lake, Canada 

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk


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## NSrider (Jul 2, 2004)

We can't seem to pick just one place to retire to. So....


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

i dream of retireing.. i hope i have the gumption to enjoy it.

i think i have10 years. i just bought a new bay area home and i think i can get it paid off in 10. then i am done...i would love to stay put, but selling and going somewhere cheaper is on the table.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

I would like to move from San Diego but the boss and family w/ grand kids coming will keep me here. Like to move to a single story home so I won't ever see another flight of stairs when I'm too old to "get 'er done" 

Hard to find ranch style homes in decent neighborhoods that aren't 1.2 million and up :eekster: or way out in the country too far from everything.

I own another rental home in Preskitt Az and love that place. The weather in SD ain't too shabby either..


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## Crankjoy (Jan 23, 2016)

Great thread! My wife and I have a little ways till retirement, but have been looking for that place to settle down for nearly 20 years now. Jobs or extended work travel have taken us to most of the areas in the western states discussed within this thread.

The advice someone suggested of living somewhere for 6 months is really wise. As a lurker of “best places to live” threads and lists, I quite often disagree with information on towns and quality of riding. I’m not sure if it’s people trying to keep their places hidden, trying to sell their towns or just differences of opinion. Over the years, we have discovered lots of things we like and dislike about many different towns. Everyone has unique tastes in riding, town amenities, weather, etc. After living in places we thought we would really like, unforeseen issues have became apparent that seem to remain undiscussed or heavily padded. 

Here are some observations as short term residents of a few places already discussed: 

Bend - The town is vibrant with outdoor recreation especially if you’re on two wheels. There always seems to be something fun going on, great food, beer and loads of riding. There IS fun winter riding in two different areas east and north of town. The preferred west side of town is very expensive if you want to have good “from the door” trail access. Trails are a little boring and over crowded for my tastes. Winters see little sun.

Sedona - Incredible from your door trail access from anywhere in town with well over 200+ miles of trails. Holiday/weekend traffic can be crazy on the west side of town and at major trailheads. Weather can be quite hot in July/August but you just get out early or go to Flagstaff 45 mins away. Favorite place lived without a doubt.

Prescott - The weather is quite good year around here and there are a ton of trails. The little things drive me crazy in this town though. Seemingly endless stoplights (20+) to get in and out of town (and to shopping) are #1. Riding trends more to the xc crowd, but Sedona’s only 1 hr away.

Moab - The riding has been transformed greatly over the last few years and really is incredible with wide ranges of trails near town and great (more than most realize) big mountain riding in the La Sals. I love that the hikers and bikers are on different trails here. From your door access is good, but many trailheads will require paved path or road rides. 

The southwest is where I’m personally most attracted since gearing up to play in snow is no longer as exciting as it once was. Grand Junction is our current place and is really nice with very good trail access and completely surrounded by incredible riding. The place to be???


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I like the riding in Fruita and Grand Junction, gets kinda hot and kinda cold, the area is a tad transient due to the resource extraction industry.

That said, the riding is amazing and it's probably where we'll end up because it's close to the kids without being a city.

How long have you lived there?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Socal is the place for me especially after 35 years of riding and a granddaughter (only grandchild from four kids) nearby. Have visited other western states and different areas of CA. All great places and well within reach of mi casa.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Meh....SoCal has great weather which makes riding possible 350 days a year but the trails are just so-so when compared to most other places being mentioned. Add in the traffic nightmares, the wanna-be Socialists running the state and the abundance of taxes and SoCal isn't anything special. I've lived here 51+ years and as soon as my wife's leaves her current employer in 2023, we'll be outta here and never look back.


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## thegolfpilot (Apr 14, 2016)

Concord, Ca. Recently dubbed one of the best places to retire. Many regional parks and mountains to mountain bike and roads galore to road bike on. 
Santa Cruz would be a pretty cool spot too! 
Only problem with retiring out here though is that it takes a pretty penny to move into a decent house and neighborhood


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

thegolfpilot said:


> Concord, Ca. Recently dubbed one of the best places to retire. Many regional parks and mountains to mountain bike and roads galore to road bike on.
> Santa Cruz would be a pretty cool spot too!
> Only problem with retiring out here though is that it takes a pretty penny to move into a decent house and neighborhood


i just recently sold my home and moved from Concord. the Mtb biking is weird. perpetual argument between the hikers and bikers. everything felt so..gray area with respect to it being a legal trail.

living where i live now, mtn biking is encouraged and someone told me i'm the most polite cyclist she ever met..it was from the training from concord, trying to keep the peace. 

i miss Concord, but it is crazy crowded.


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## Crankjoy (Jan 23, 2016)

The winters do get cold, but are generally pretty sunny during the day when you should be able to get out if you're retired. The summers really aren't too bad if you get out before 10. 

New trail development plans for the area are pretty exciting with paved paths out to the Kokopelli trailhead and plans for new trails there and at 18 road. If you haven't rode Sarlacc Trail at 18 road yet, you're in for a treat. Amazing views high above all others and a really nicely built trail. Others are planned out there as well.

Real estate looks pretty good now too with all the oil and gas moving out of town. 

Have't actually "lived" in GJ, but have spent 2-3 weeks here the last few years in addition to yearly trips for the past 15.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Crankjoy said:


> The winters do get cold, but are generally pretty sunny during the day when you should be able to get out if you're retired. The summers really aren't too bad if you get out before 10.
> 
> New trail development plans for the area are pretty exciting with paved paths out to the Kokopelli trailhead and plans for new trails there and at 18 road. If you haven't rode Sarlacc Trail at 18 road yet, you're in for a treat. Amazing views high above all others and a really nicely built trail. Others are planned out there as well.
> 
> ...


I ride thereba couple times each year, my kids live in SLC so it's "on the way" 

More trails is always good.

The nice thing about GJ is the trail systems are big enough and far enough apart that you can always find a place that is not crowded.

Lunch loops is such a gem, I can never get enough of that place.

GJ is also central to Moab and Cortez 

Yeah, it'll probably be our next place.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> Meh....SoCal has great weather which makes riding possible 350 days a year but the trails are just so-so when compared to most other places being mentioned. Add in the traffic nightmares, the wanna-be Socialists running the state and the abundance of taxes and SoCal isn't anything special. I've lived here 51+ years and as soon as my wife's leaves her current employer in 2023, we'll be outta here and never look back.


Born and raised in Saratoga/Cupertino, moved to the Sierras in the early 80's, then moved out of the state after college (UNR), there is nothing that would get me to go back to the bay area or so cal.

I'd consider Arcata, Bishop, and Mt Shasta, otherwise that state is not even on my radar.

You city people forget what it's like to live where there's no traffic and the trails are uncrowded.

I rode a fifteen mile alpine loop today and I never saw a soul. Next weekend we're riding the Staircase out in the Methow, yummy 

Seriously, the best riding is more than quantity, there is quality, access, and not having to compete for use. It's the same quandry near all major urban areas, SLC, Seattle, San Fran, too many users.

Helena is still looking good


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> Meh....SoCal has great weather which makes riding possible 350 days a year but the trails are just so-so when compared to most other places being mentioned. Add in the traffic nightmares, the wanna-be Socialists running the state and the abundance of taxes and SoCal isn't anything special. I've lived here 51+ years and as soon as my wife's leaves her current employer in 2023, we'll be outta here and never look back.


That's a long time to wait...


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

"Yeah, it'll probably be our next place."

After all that Grand Junction? Really? 

Wow.


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## thegolfpilot (Apr 14, 2016)

Boomchakabowwow said:


> i just recently sold my home and moved from Concord. the Mtb biking is weird. perpetual argument between the hikers and bikers. everything felt so..gray area with respect to it being a legal trail.
> 
> living where i live now, mtn biking is encouraged and someone told me i'm the most polite cyclist she ever met..it was from the training from concord, trying to keep the peace.
> 
> i miss Concord, but it is crazy crowded.


Yes, I live right at the bottom of limeridge. Occasionally there are aggressive hikers. The trails are outstanding though and nobody who matters really cares. Signage is just there for city liability purposes at this point


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## Blueallah (Jun 16, 2005)

I went through this question a while ago and realized I need to stay where I am in Evergreen CO. I have good trail access from the driveway, great trails within 1hr, no neighbors I can see, and a real city (Denver) 35 min away. CO skiing options are very convienient on week days. At 8700' the house is a bit colder/snowier than I would prefer, but wife wisely convinced me that it's cheaper (and more fun) to rent someplace warm in February than buy a second house or take on a move to someplace else that will likely have its own set of pro/cons. My closest neighbor is 84 and still making it work up here, so the bar is set. Through dumb luck I think I bought the retirement house when I was in my 30s.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Blueallah said:


> ...At 8700' the house is a bit colder/snowier than I would prefer, but wife wisely convinced me that it's cheaper (and more fun) to rent someplace warm in February than buy a second house or take on a move to someplace else that will likely have its own set of pro/cons. My closest neighbor is 84 and still making it work up here, ...so the bar is set. Through dumb luck I think I bought the retirement house when I was in my 30s.


Now that Dear Sir, is a fabulous place to be. I think renting and moving around may be a good option.


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Evergreen is very nice! I grew up there. Seems like there would be a lot of good riding in the area but I lived there prior to mountain biking being a thing. 
Strangely, I did less skiing while living there. Too expensive for my minimum wage income.
It would be a great place to retire.
What is your favorite ride in the area? I am planning a trip to see CSU whip ass on Wyoming up there in a few weeks, I was going to drive to WP and or Steamboat on my way back to the NW, but could be enticed to swing up to Evergreen.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Blueallah said:


> I went through this question a while ago and realized I need to stay where I am.... Through dumb luck I think I bought the retirement house when I was in my 30s.


That's the way to do it.

If you like where you are, why move?
If you don't, why wait until retirement to move?


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Sorry to hear that anyone resides in a place they dislike so much they can't wait to depart. My dad was military and we lived everywhere from Florida to Alaska; never had a place that I didn't love and don't now. What I've discovered is if someone doesn't like their present location, they won't like the next one either.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

fos'l said:


> ....What I've discovered is if someone doesn't like their present location, they won't like the next one either.


I don't know if that is necessarily true. I have lived, for the most part, in Seattle my whole life and have watched it change drastically. So yeah, I can't wait to leave it. My brother in law, from the opposite end of the political spectrum, also thought that there would never be a time he wouldn't want to live in Seattle. He has since retired and moved to the Peninsula and loves it there. Places change, we change, and maybe it is time to make a change. 292 days I hope. Slim


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## Blueallah (Jun 16, 2005)

Crankyone;12827025
What is your favorite ride in the area[/QUOTE said:


> Favorite ride is still Bergen Peak. Been riding it since 1990. There's a whole lot of choices between Golden, Morrison and, Evergreen.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bsieb said:


> "Yeah, it'll probably be our next place."
> 
> After all that Grand Junction? Really?
> 
> Wow.


Not really "wow", more like "what took so long".

I'm not made of money, I'll probably continue working until well into my 70's, and quite honestly I'm not wired for retirement. My idea of an ideal retirement location is one where I can ride a variety if terrain, nearly year round, without sweating/smothering in the humidity, that has jobs, and the cost of living and population growth won't lead to resource saturation.

This pretty much crosses off N AZ, CA, W WA, E OR, or any other populous and well loved place.

It would be terrible to move somewhere and have it grow unbearable, so I lean toward the hidden gems or places that are unique in ways that make others turn away.

Wenatchee is one of those gems, and if I was still waay into snow sports I'd stay here. Oak Ridge TN is one of those places, I would have stayed there if I was still into paddling.

Life goes on, we age, we move in different directions.

Right now I want to ride and hike, and snowy dark places are not on the list.

GJ/Fruita has the goods, and when it doesn't; ie too hot or too cold, an hour or so of driving and I can get what I need.

We'll miss Wenatchee, it's the ruler by which we evaluate all new comers...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

fos'l said:


> Sorry to hear that anyone resides in a place they dislike so much they can't wait to depart. My dad was military and we lived everywhere from Florida to Alaska; never had a place that I didn't love and don't now. What I've discovered is if someone doesn't like their present location, they won't like the next one either.


Maybe you misunderstand this thread?

Not many are saying they don't like where they live. The purpose of this thread is to talk about places where we'd like to retire or in my case "ease into retirement over tge next twenty years".

Some folks are just fine where they are, others want to escape the rat race, go where the air is clear, change of scenery, etc...

I've lived all over the country, and lived abroad, I have many favorite places, but there are only some are where I'd choose to live.

It's false to say that a person can't be happy in the future if they are not happy now, just think about that for a moment, I'm sure you get my drift.

I really enjoy hearing about how people find their way in life


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> That's a long time to wait...


I'm only 51 and her job is too good to walk away from. Great pay, fantastic benefits and she enjoys it 95% of the time. On top of that, if she stays until she's 55, they will vest all her stock as a "golden parachute". If she was 55 today, that would be a $200K+ bonus so I'll stick it out. besides, I'm not working anymore anyway so I get away any chance I can. In Durango now or 2 weeks, go home for 3 days and then head out to ride the Rainbow Rim and then Gooseberry, home for 3 weeks and then heading to Sedona.

Even though the permanent move won't come until 2023, I'm trying to convince her to start building in 2019 now. My logic is at least we'd then have a place to stay and have friends come with us every month or two until we go in full time. It's either that or I'm buying a Sprinter/Promaster and start taking more "camping" bike trips.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> Maybe you misunderstand this thread?
> 
> Not many are saying they don't like where they live. The purpose of this thread is to talk about places where we'd like to retire or in my case "ease into retirement over tge next twenty years".
> 
> ...


My statement didn't imply that some places aren't better than others, just that some individuals aren't happy wherever they reside while others are happy wherever they are. I think you get my drift.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> I'm only 51 and her job is too good to walk away from. Great pay, fantastic benefits and she enjoys it 95% of the time. On top of that, if she stays until she's 55, they will vest all her stock as a "golden parachute". If she was 55 today, that would be a $200K+ bonus so I'll stick it out. besides, I'm not working anymore anyway so I get away any chance I can. In Durango now or 2 weeks, go home for 3 days and then head out to ride the Rainbow Rim and then Gooseberry, home for 3 weeks and then heading to Sedona.
> 
> Even though the permanent move won't come until 2023, I'm trying to convince her to start building in 2019 now. My logic is at least we'd then have a place to stay and have friends come with us every month or two until we go in full time. It's either that or I'm buying a Sprinter/Promaster and start taking more "camping" bike trips.


Ooh, get the Promaster, nothing beats having your campsite at the trail head


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Crankjoy said:


> Moab - The riding has been transformed greatly over the last few years and really is incredible with wide ranges of trails near town and great (more than most realize) big mountain riding in the La Sals. I love that the hikers and bikers are on different trails here. From your door access is good, but many trailheads will require paved path or road rides.


The problem with Moab is that the entire place has been transformed over the last few years. It used to be that Moab was busy in March-April and September-October, now it is overwhelmed literally from President's Day to Thanksgiving. There are really only about 90 days where the "old Moab" reappears. Some friends of ours have visited Moab every five years or so for the last 25 years. They said their visit the weekend after Labor Day will be their last. There were crowds everywhere, from the 20 minute wait to get into Arches to the hour long waits at restaurants and the madhouse at the City Market, not to mention the $240 pricetag for a crap hotel.

The riding is awesome and has gotten better, the living is going downhill rapidly. We had our sights set on Moab, but now, we are free agents for somewhere else in the Four Corners area. My wife really likes Palisade. That might be an option. Also, Rifle/Meeker or somewhere in between would probably be better than Moab at this point.


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## Crankjoy (Jan 23, 2016)

Yes, I agree with your comments on it getting busy, but if you live there (retire there) you don't worry about hotels, you go to restaurants during the week if at all and you don't do the "tourist" things very often. Living there isn't for everyone, but it is pretty great for those of us that want to ride our bikes on awesome trails. Funny thing is, I think most riders that visit Moab only ride/know the popular trails and miss many of the hidden gems...both old and new.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Crankjoy said:


> Yes, I agree with your comments on it getting busy, but if you live there (retire there) you don't worry about hotels, you go to restaurants during the week if at all and you don't do the "tourist" things very often. Living there isn't for everyone, but it is pretty great for those of us that want to ride our bikes on awesome trails. Funny thing is, I think most riders that visit Moab only ride/know the popular trails and miss many of the hidden gems...both old and new.


I've been going to Moab since the late-80's, and lived there for awhile in the early 2000's. I really don't like the idea of retiring somewhere that I have to plan my outings around the day of the week or the time of the day just to avoid crowds - if I wanted that, I have it already on the Front Range. Yes, there are a lot of little known places around Moab that are uncrowded even during the busy times, but they pretty much all require a ton of driving. I honestly think that with the growth of the trail systems in the Grand Junction area, the riding is about as good, and much less crowded most of the time. And you have the advantages of that area, like being able to buy a pair of underwear somewhere other than Shopko, having a major hospital nearby, being closer to lift-served skiing, more fishing opportunities, etc., while still being able to take day trips to Moab if you really want to ride over there.

The other thing that bothers me about Moab now is the increasingly transient nature of the population. So few jobs there pay a living wage, that it is a revolving door of people who come there, work hard, have their dreams crushed, and leave. In this respect, Moab is now just like Telluride, Aspen, Vail, etc., but actually worse, because someone who really loves those areas can often make things work by moving to a down valley town, and you can't do that in Moab, it is all or nothing. There have always been the temporary rafting guides and the like in Moab, but in the past, someone who fell in love with the place, the best kind of people to have stay in a town, could figure out how to buy in. Now, unless you are a trust funder or have some local connection giving you a break, you are doomed to $12 an hour, Obamacare that only covers doctors in SLC, and living in one of Moab's substandard places, some of which are *really* substandard, as you know.

Meanwhile, there is basically unchecked development going on. The ace in the hole for controlling growth used to be the limits of the Grand County water system, which refuses to stretch down to San Juan, but I read that the state is giving San Juan money to build their own water system right across the county line, and the state is going to force Grand Water to allow the developments down there to hook into the Grand sewer system. Stay tuned for an incredible blight of development down there, as there are 5000 acres of state land in the valley in San Juan county. Wal Mart, here we come. I guess there will be multiple underwear options after all.

Moab has had a good run, but if you think the last 25 years have changed the place, wait until the population doubles or even triples, in the next 25 years.


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## Tim22 (Sep 11, 2010)

You nailed it Mr. Unit. Live in Id. now but 30 yrs in Co. been going to Moab since late 70's and couldn't agree with you more.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

honkinunit said:


> I've been going to Moab since the late-80's, and lived there for awhile in the early 2000's. I really don't like the idea of retiring somewhere that I have to plan my outings around the day of the week or the time of the day just to avoid crowds - if I wanted that, I have it already on the Front Range. Yes, there are a lot of little known places around Moab that are uncrowded even during the busy times, but they pretty much all require a ton of driving. I honestly think that with the growth of the trail systems in the Grand Junction area, the riding is about as good, and much less crowded most of the time. And you have the advantages of that area, like being able to buy a pair of underwear somewhere other than Shopko, having a major hospital nearby, being closer to lift-served skiing, more fishing opportunities, etc., while still being able to take day trips to Moab if you really want to ride over there.
> 
> The other thing that bothers me about Moab now is the increasingly transient nature of the population. So few jobs there pay a living wage, that it is a revolving door of people who come there, work hard, have their dreams crushed, and leave. In this respect, Moab is now just like Telluride, Aspen, Vail, etc., but actually worse, because someone who really loves those areas can often make things work by moving to a down valley town, and you can't do that in Moab, it is all or nothing. There have always been the temporary rafting guides and the like in Moab, but in the past, someone who fell in love with the place, the best kind of people to have stay in a town, could figure out how to buy in. Now, unless you are a trust funder or have some local connection giving you a break, you are doomed to $12 an hour, Obamacare that only covers doctors in SLC, and living in one of Moab's substandard places, some of which are *really* substandard, as you know.
> 
> ...


So you just described most places mentioned in this thread. Now what?

You can't have your cake and eat it too, all places have compromises, small towns have fewer trails and fewer amenities, larger towns have more trails, more amenities, and more competition for said resources.

The advantage of living where you recreate is the ability to choose your time, versus going to a place on vacation and having no choice because you don't have the time.

Most of my riding is done before or after work, and on the weekends. My free time is limited because I work, so traveling for good riding is not going to net me more riding.

Where I live now, there are rarely people on the trails; I saw one rider tonight, BUT, there are only a few trsil choices... I'd rather have choices and be forced to share.

Moab is a tourist town and you (and me) are one of the people who made it happen, so it's kinda hard to complain when you're the cause and the cure


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> So you just described most places mentioned in this thread. Now what?
> 
> You can't have your cake and eat it too, all places have compromises, small towns have fewer trails and fewer amenities, larger towns have more trails, more amenities, and more competition for said resources.
> 
> ...


I am beginning to think that the key is living somewhere that is not a tourist destination, but which is close enough to them to piggyback off of the infrastructure. I really like Rifle, it is a stand alone town and has some good trails and other outdoor things very close, but it also is half day trip distance to a ton of other great outdoor places as well as the infrastructure in GJ. It is not (yet) a tourist destination. Palisade and some other areas around GJ are similar.

We haven't completely written off Moab yet; what happens in the next five years will tilt things one direction or the other.

I hate to say it, but I have seen some places in NorCal that looked pretty darn good, and which are no more expensive than most nice areas of Colorado now. It is hard to believe that CO has gotten this far out of hand.


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> So you just described most places mentioned in this thread. Now what?
> 
> Moab is a tourist town and you (and me) are one of the people who made it happen, so it's kinda hard to complain when you're the cause and the cure


Good points Ben.

BTW, I'll throw in another place close to GJ that has a lot of potential...Ridgeway, CO. If you've never done the RAT, drive a couple of hours and treat yourself. When you're done, hit Taco del Gnar and treat yourself again!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> Good points Ben.
> 
> BTW, I'll throw in another place close to GJ that has a lot of potential...Ridgeway, CO. If you've never done the RAT, drive a couple of hours and treat yourself. When you're done, hit Taco del Gnar and treat yourself again!


I assume you mean Ridgway? (There is no 'e' in Ridgway).

That is a nice area and it is on our list of places to explore over the next few years, along with the areas around Montrose. More winter than GJ or Moab though.

We are basically considering the entire swath from Fruita down to Ridgway.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

The Colorado Plateau is filled with small towns that give good access to popular meccas, while avoiding the industrial tourism scene. I expect most have trails, but I think the Gallup, NM, (6514') area is hard to beat for riding out the door, and just 20 minutes to the Zuni Mountains (~8000'), a huge NF resource with a large, and still growing, mtb singletrack system. Health care and teaching jobs are abundant. Not too civilized in the urbane sense, but just minutes from no one around, public land, go where ever you want, do whatever you want, rural land available if you like that. An amazing and welcoming outdoor community. A few hours drive from many popular mtb/ski areas, including Albuquerque (<2 hrs), Santa Fe, Sedona, Moab, Durango, Telluride, to name a few. A moderate four season climate with more than 300 days of sunshine blue skies. Many opportunities to give back in whatever manner/area you are inclined, building trails, neutering dogs, recycling, whatever. Not easy to come by these days, and if it's what you want, feel free. Not to worried about a rush of folks moving here, we still have one foot (and mostly delightfully) in the third world. This plug may be erased as I consider it more...


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

bsieb said:


> The Colorado Plateau is filled with small towns that give good access to popular meccas, while avoiding the industrial tourism scene. I expect most have trails, but I think the Gallup, NM, (6514') area is hard to beat for riding out the door, and just 20 minutes to the Zuni Mountains (~8000'), a huge NF resource with a large, and still growing, mtb singletrack system. Health care and teaching jobs are abundant. Not too civilized in the urbane sense, but just minutes from no one around, public land, go where ever you want, do whatever you want, rural land available if you like that. An amazing and welcoming outdoor community. A few hours drive from many popular mtb/ski areas, including Albuquerque (<2 hrs), Santa Fe, Sedona, Moab, Durango, Telluride, to name a few. A moderate four season climate with more than 300 days of sunshine blue skies. Many opportunities to give back in whatever manner/area you are inclined, building trails, neutering dogs, recycling, whatever. Not easy to come by these days, and if it's what you want, feel free. Not to worried about a rush of folks moving here, we still have one foot (and mostly delightfully) in the third world. This plug may be erased as I consider it more...


Sounded good....looked it up...then it sounded pretty bad. Violent crime 5 times national average - highest in New Mexico. Particularly bad for Native people. Are you not seeing any of that?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

MSU Alum said:


> Sounded good....looked it up...then it sounded pretty bad. Violent crime 5 times national average - highest in New Mexico. Particularly bad for Native people. Are you not seeing any of that?


It's over dramatized, in my opinion, at least for most people. I certainly don't see it in my daily life. A lot of it is the result of poverty and lifestyle on the surrounding reservations, which sticks to Gallup. Part of it is that third world aspect, where lifestyles and problems are more basic. Some sights might be shocking or not, depending where you are from. The locals from NY and LA talk about how nice and friendly folks are, compared to where they are from. It's what you make of it, the area is spectacular.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

MSU Alum said:


> Sounded good....looked it up...then it sounded pretty bad. Violent crime 5 times national average - highest in New Mexico. Particularly bad for Native people. Are you not seeing any of that?


I go to Durango every year and used to drive through Gallup each time. I remember the 1st time I drove through the town and all I can say is that the place was a complete $hithole. I wouldn't move there for free. I started taking another route into Durango just to avoid Gallup.

fats forward a few years and I was shocked when I read here on MTBR that Gallup was "and undiscovered gem of the MTB world". I looked it up and sure enough, that forest riding outside of town looked very nice. Just as long as I don't ever have to go into town for ANY reason, it may be worth checking out that ride.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Bike did a real good article on Gallup; how there is lots of riding and people working real hard to change it's reputation. They also said that the crime isn't near as noticeable as people make out. It is one of the places that I track the weather so that I will know when the best time to visit is. At least for me. I track a lot of places so I can plan my slow journey down to Tucson.

If you look hard, there are regular towns that have good riding. It is my opinion that if you always look at the "destination" towns you are going to miss a lot. Yeah, after everything I have heard I am going to visit Moab. But I definitely ain't going to live there. Specially when I know of other places with an active cycling community building trails, just the regular people. But of course, that's just me.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Gallup is great, you live here awhile and can't bear to leave. One of the things that the diverse groups of people living here all have in common is their love of the place they live and of their way of life. It's a different experience to live here than it is to pass through or visit as a tourist. City folk tend to get frustrated at the lack of sophisticated things to entertain them, but we think that's okay. The sense of place here in the 4 corners overwhelms all other facets of life, it's an unlimited playground to explore as you wish. Gallup is just located so as to have really good everyday working access to the rest of the region. Grand Junction and others do too, although it's solidly in the Midwest culture wise, and I just can't do that anymore. If you haven't been to Shallako at Zuni, or sat on a roof in Hopi land to watch an evening dance, as a local, you have no idea. This is a very friendly loving place once you pick up the vibe, full of mysteries and wonders, a very real land of enchantment. The price includes a bit of third world patina, but it's not threatening after you get used to it.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

bsieb said:


> Gallup is great, you live here awhile and can't bear to leave. One of the things that the diverse groups of people living here all have in common is their love of the place they live and of their way of life. It's a different experience to live here than it is to pass through or visit as a tourist. City folk tend to get frustrated at the lack of sophisticated things to entertain them, but we think that's okay. The sense of place here in the 4 corners overwhelms all other facets of life, it's an unlimited playground to explore as you wish. Gallup is just located so as to have really good everyday working access to the rest of the region... If you haven't been to Shallako at Zuni, or sat on a roof in Hopi land to watch an evening dance,...This is a very friendly loving place once you pick up the vibe, full of mysteries and wonders, a very real land of enchantment. The price includes a bit of third world patina, but it's not threatening after you get used to it.


Oh man sounds like just the place. I sure hope you will show me around when I get down there in a while. But thanks so much for sharing. Sounds like my Ginie will love it too.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I agree on the "non tourist" small towns, this is the key to avoid the ugly stuff that comes from tourism, but it won't avoid growth. 

The only thing that prevents growth is moving to a town where no one else wants to live, which likely negates any I f us choosing to live there..

Top choices for me: Helena, Montrose, Cedar City, Wenatchee, GJ/Fruita.

Helena looks better and better all the time, if only it was a little further south. I'd be curious to get a local's sense for where the city is going; the downtown seems stagnant. 

Montrose has a ton of potential, but I don't know it well enough to understand growth trends. It is central to the goods and the weather is reasonable. Jobs are increasing as are trails.

Cedar City is a cute little town, small college, central to amazing riding, and good access to year round riding. If only there were jobs; I'm not going to live and/or work in St George. 

Wenatchee is hard to beat for jobs and access to a variety of recreational activities, but I get tired of driving to the goods. It's also a bit dark and grey in the winter

Grand Junction, it checks a lot of boxes. I wish it wasn't quite so transient, but maybe that'll settle down once the resourse extraction industry plays second fiddle to a more diverse economic base.

If I had to pick a location based on riding quality and quantity, GJ would be a top pick.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

Since this forever home is where someone will stay til the end I would think being close to a decent hospital/medical services would be on the "have to" list also. Things like a CVS, shopping close by because most older folks don't/shouldn't drive too far to get where they need to go.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

fos'l said:


> some individuals aren't happy wherever they reside while others are happy wherever they are.


Some people are perfect chamelions and can 'fit in' anywhere,
some are the opposite, most are somewhere in between.

Some are loners and don't particularly care about 'fitting in'
but their wives do.

Some have become more conservative as they age
so they are seeking a place as conservative as they have become.

And some of us are happy where we are.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Guess I will just have to travel around till I find that spot. Idaho in the summer maybe, Tucson in the winter, and everything else in between. Luckily I won't have to work unless I want to.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Easy for us, we're both medical providers so wherever we find work there will likely be decent medical services.

Wenatchee has an excellent hospital 



Dirtrider127 said:


> Since this forever home is where someone will stay til the end I would think being close to a decent hospital/medical services would be on the "have to" list also. Things like a CVS, shopping close by because most older folks don't/shouldn't drive too far to get where they need to go.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

I just retired on Friday, First thing I did is get out on the singlespeed with my wife and our dog. We moved to the Park City area 6 years ago and my garage truly is my trailhead. Living in a resort area is different but we live far enough out that we can easily avoid the chaos. 
I have really great trails right out the back door, I can catch the free bus and ride to the resort areas for a long ride. There are lots of great trails being built in Wasatch county south of here(20 minutes away). South Summit (east) is also working on a trail system now, so as our trails get more crowded there will be more options. 
I have built a Ford Transit as a self contained camper, and we have so many great places just a few hours away, Vernal, Jackson, Sun Valley, Salmon, Moab, Fruita.
Winters are fine we break out the fatbikes and skis, Lots of sunny days between the storms. 
I am happy where I am and look forward to the next several years. 
.


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## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

Congrats Mact, sounds like you made some good choices and now will have the time to enjoy them.


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Jing said:


> Congrats Mact, sounds like you made some good choices and now will have the time to enjoy them.


Best decision was marrying my wife, She is the reason I can retire here. She is also my favorite riding partner, sometimes I can't even keep up with her.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

mactweek said:


> I just retired on Friday, First thing I did is get out on the singlespeed with my wife and our dog. We moved to the Park City area 6 years ago and my garage truly is my trailhead. Living in a resort area is different but we live far enough out that we can easily avoid the chaos.
> I have really great trails right out the back door, I can catch the free bus and ride to the resort areas for a long ride. There are lots of great trails being built in Wasatch county south of here(20 minutes away). South Summit (east) is also working on a trail system now, so as our trails get more crowded there will be more options.
> I have built a Ford Transit as a self contained camper, and we have so many great places just a few hours away, Vernal, Jackson, Sun Valley, Salmon, Moab, Fruita.
> Winters are fine we break out the fatbikes and skis, Lots of sunny days between the storms.
> ...


Don't they advertise something like 400 miles of trails in the Park City area? I would imagine with that many trails it shouldn't be too hard to get away from it all. The stuff that I have seen about Heber City, just south of you looks real good also. Sounds like a great plan.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

honkinunit said:


> I've been going to Moab since the late-80's, and lived there for awhile in the early 2000's. I really don't like the idea of retiring somewhere that I have to plan my outings around the day of the week or the time of the day just to avoid crowds.
> Moab has had a good run, but if you think the last 25 years have changed the place, wait until the population doubles or even triples, in the next 25 years.


Moab is a super interesting place, been going semi-annually for the better part of 25 years as well. I'm in Denver metro basically and it's a quick and easy 5-6 hours depending on the first 45 minutes leaving/returning Denver. Moab is a great destination spot and I've even gone so far as looking at condo's on the south side of town by the golf course. I feel like I would need to be there way more than I am and the "investment" part I am sure is OK but a ski town would be better.

The amount of trails which have been developed in the last 10 years is really pretty staggering. Klondike Bluffs, Klonzo, Navajo Rocks, Mag 7, Deadhorse, Horsethief, Amasa Back, Hazard County, etc. are all really pretty impressive. 10-15 years ago all the old Western Spirit guides (based in Moab) used to drive to Fruita/GJ to ride when I asked "where do you ride in Moab", lol.. Boy how that has changed now with so much good riding now in Moab. I rode Navajo Rocks area on Sunday and saw just 1 person out riding. That's it. So you still can find traffic-free places. What bothers me more is all of the tanker trucks you see every 5 minutes cruising down the road from fracking wells.

I'm still a ways away from retiring, but my plan is to be in central/western CO, get a pull behind rv and take 3-4 day trips boon docking on BLM land in the desert. Love the Eagle/Gypsum area but that is now experiencing front range prices. Heck, Eagle used to be where all the service people working in Vail used to live. Now it is a super popular and house prices have exploded! The beauty of Colorado is you are so close to some of the best riding in the world, along with skiing, hiking, etc.. I work with a lot of people moving here from either coast, and they are like kids in a candy store living here. They were just done with the "rat race" so they say paying $6,000+ in property taxes. But Denver isn't getting smaller, I know that!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> ...They were just done with the "rat race" so they say paying $6,000+ in property taxes. But Denver isn't getting smaller, I know that!


Denver has blown out to this guy. I grew up in a small town, and I live far outside of Denver, so I have avoided the crap for almost 30 years, but it has finally crept out to me. I'll be leaving when I retire, 100% certain.

The problems with Moab have nothing to do with the riding or any other recreational opportunities. There are very few places where you can day trip to the variety of things you can do from Moab: MTB, hike, camp, motorcycle/ATV, Jeep, raft, fish, hunt, rock climb, rockhound, and the weather is awesome. Unfortunately, Moab has been overrun. It will never be like living in a large metro area, but it is getting to be damn annoying. If we are going to have to deal with congestion and traffic, we might as well be somewhere with better overall services. The Genie is out of the bottle and isn't going back in, it is just up to us whether we can deal with what Moab is now, and what it will be 25 years from now.

Last week, the Deseret News had a series of articles on Moab (and Sprindale's, near Zion) challenges. They pretty much sum up the issues:

Special Report: Utah's 'Mighty Five' put the squeeze on Moab, Springdale | Deseret News

Wanted: Teachers willing to live in a beautiful place | Deseret News

Special report: Solutions to the traffic and housing crunch near national parks | Deseret News

Using student power to create housing: 'This is wild. I can't believe it' | Deseret News

Young family's solution to housing costs: Do the work yourself | Deseret News


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I like Park City, but the cold and snow stick around too long, lots of good riding and close to my kids, you might just get me as s neighbor if the kids stay put!


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Yeah, I can see why people like Park City. Been looking at a lot of the trails on TrailForks and the map I downloaded on PDF Maps (why yes, those are unabashed plugs). Looks like the trails are really spread out over a large area once you get away from the ski/mountain bike parks. I like that because it also spreads out the people. Next step; dispersed camping sites. Although the RV parks there are not that expensive. Surprisingly.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Como, Italy. In 9 years, 11 months and two weeks.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Como, Italy. In 9 years, 11 months and two weeks.


Go AHead, rub it in! Hear it is great riding over there.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

SlimL said:


> Go AHead, rub it in! Hear it is great riding over there.


OMG, everything is great there! It's the most beautiful place I've ever been. And the Pizza, mama Mia! I wish I knew how to post an iPhone recording. Even though im not religious, the church bells are very cool to listen to.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I believe the Phoenix area (and Fountain Hills, Arizona, specifically) is the best year round cycling in America, period. YMMV. There are over 100 miles of trails in McDowell Sonoran Preserve / McDowell Mountain Park area, all rideable from Fountain Hills 
, and that doesn't include hundreds of miles in the rest of Phoenix area. Plus weekend road trips to Sedona, Flagstaff and Prescott. Want to race? AES and MBAA series, plus a dozen other great annual races. And it's not just 330 days of good weather per year ...Night riding is getting to be a true year-round specialty for Phoenix!



















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

^ Just over 100 miles, that's it? That'll get boring fast.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> ^ Just over 100 miles, that's it? That'll get boring fast.


That's in *ONE* riding area. One out of 15 or so I would guess. I've only taken one trip to PHX and we hit (5) different areas in (5) days. My issue with riding in PHX was dealing with the commuter traffic on weekdays as we were heading to the trails. It was horrific. The other main issue that would keep most people from moving there full time would be the oppressive summer heat. There's a reason EVERY beach rental in San Diego is booked by Phoenician's all Summer long.


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## patski (Dec 12, 2005)

I've MTB'd all over Lago di Garda, super nice. How's Como?



Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Como, Italy. In 9 years, 11 months and two weeks.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

There is way too much good riding all over AZ. Made a couple of trips to Tucson to ride and it was a gas! And the people are great. Love the Good Egg for breakfast.


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## rorhound (Aug 23, 2013)

59 YO and I have 2 months 2 calendar days (32 work days) left before I pull the plug. The wife is done in 3 weeks (*****  ). I think 40 years in construction is enough for anyone. We live in So CA and will be staying because of the anchor the wife calls "grand daughter". We live in the Temecula area which has several trails, and new trails popping up, or mods to old trails, seems like every week. No, it's not Sedona, but I have a truck and I'm not afraid to use it to get to different trails. Another problem with moving is the young whipper snappers, you know, those 25 to 45 year olds, I ride with wouldn't have anyone to laugh at when I crash. It's all about the entertainment.


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## camp10 (Mar 2, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Como, Italy. In 9 years, 11 months and two weeks.


I was in Milan last winter for some meetings and took the train up to Lake Como for a day. One of the most beautiful places that I've ever been.

How's the mountain biking? They sure have the hills!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> My issue with riding in PHX was dealing with the commuter traffic on weekdays as we were heading to the trails. It was horrific. The other main issue that would keep most people from moving there full time would be the oppressive summer heat. There's a reason EVERY beach rental in San Diego is booked by Phoenician's all Summer long.


I've been to the Phoenix area six or seven times, all different times of the year, and the only thing I can think of while I am there is why in hell anyone would live there? Sure, there are some trails, but you want to kill yourself before you get to them. 90 degrees at 6 AM for three months out of the year and that is the cool part of the day? No thanks.

Rest assured, I won't be contributing to that mess.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> I've been to the Phoenix area six or seven times, all different times of the year, and the only thing I can think of while I am there is why in hell anyone would live there? Sure, there are some trails, but you want to kill yourself before you get to them. 90 degrees at 6 AM for three months out of the year and that is the cool part of the day? No thanks.
> 
> Rest assured, I won't be contributing to that mess.


Try six mounths out of the year!


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

k2rider1964 said:


> That's in *ONE* riding area. One out of 15 or so I would guess. I've only taken one trip to PHX and we hit (5) different areas in (5) days. My issue with riding in PHX was dealing with the commuter traffic on weekdays as we were heading to the trails. It was horrific. The other main issue that would keep most people from moving there full time would be the oppressive summer heat. There's a reason EVERY beach rental in San Diego is booked by Phoenician's all Summer long.


Summers are surprisingly bearable in Tucson. It may only be about 5 deg cooler on average during the day, but it cools off a lot quicker at night, and it's usually at least 10 deg cooler in the early morning. I've started July rides in Tucson in the morning at 70 degrees, and thought, hmmm, it's a little brisk. For year-round riding (if that's what you really want) it's hard to beat Tucson. You have to wake up early for summer rides (or go night-riding. Night rides are much more bearable in Tucson as the temp drops much more rapidly at night than Phoenix), but even if you want to do longer rides, you can do Mt. Lemmon, start early, and at least you're just descending once it's hot. My gawd, it's starts to feel hot once you get past Prison Camp in the summer though, and that 5 miles or so of flat rollers back to Le Buzz can be brutal sometimes. All in all, if riding really is your thing. I'd choose Tucson over Phoenix in a heartbeat. I did live in Phoenix again after living in Tucson for 10 years, and even getting up early to ride, the heat was just brutal there. In Tucson you can enjoy sitting out on your back patio on summer nights. In Phoenix, it doesn't drop below 100 till after midnight. You just stay in the AC in Phoenix. Traffic is a whole 'nother level in Phoenix as well.

The only advantage Phoenix has over Tucson is being closer to Flagstaff/Sedona for quick weekend getaways during the summer. Traffic on I-17 can be brutal though, especially if there are any accidents, and it seems like there almost always are. In Tucson, there's not as much need to get away. If I move back there again though, I will have a pool.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

DLd said:


> Traffic is a whole 'nother level in Phoenix as well.
> 
> The only advantage Phoenix has over Tucson is being closer to Flagstaff/Sedona for quick weekend getaways during the summer. Traffic on I-17 can be brutal though, especially if there are any accidents, and it seems like there almost always are. In Tucson, there's not as much need to get away. If I move back there again though, I will have a pool.


My friends went to Sedona last weekend from San Diego and due to a bad accident on I-17, they had to back-track North and go thru Prescott and down the 60. It took them 12 hours to get home. I went up this past weekend and there was an accident in Hwy 179 that prevented anybody from getting into town on Saturday. The trails and restaurants were empty. Admittedly, I've never had those issues before (yet) and neither one affected our trip thankfully.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> My friends went to Sedona last weekend from San Diego and due to a bad accident on I-17, they had to back-track North and go thru Prescott and down the 60. It took them 12 hours to get home. I went up this past weekend and there was an accident in Hwy 179 that prevented anybody from getting into town on Saturday. The trails and restaurants were empty. Admittedly, I've never had those issues before (yet) and neither one affected our trip thankfully.


I have to say, one of the major, major considerations in deciding where to retire is traffic. I'm not going to retire to a place with significant public transit, so I have to think about what it is going to be like to be driving when I am 75-80 years old. My dad drove until he was 87, but he lived in a relatively small town. I can't imagine driving in Front Range or Phoenix traffic when I am 80, hell I can barely tolerate the Front Range now.

That might be the one thing I can see about Florida, there are lots of places to retire where it is easy for an "old" person to get around in one of those retirement communities. We need to get Del Webb to build an "Extreme Retirement" community with MTB trails (for our, *gasp*, ebikes), and hiking trails, but easy access to the grocery store and plenty of orthopedic surgeons. Most of these places are built around golf courses now, but as they say (at least in Boulder), cycling is the new golf.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

honkinunit said:


> I have to say, one of the major, major considerations in deciding where to retire is traffic. I'm not going to retire to a place with significant public transit, so I have to think about what it is going to be like to be driving when I am 75-80 years old. My dad drove until he was 87, but he lived in a relatively small town. I can't imagine driving in Front Range or Phoenix traffic when I am 80, hell I can barely tolerate the Front Range now.
> 
> That might be the one thing I can see about Florida, there are lots of places to retire where it is easy for an "old" person to get around in one of those retirement communities. We need to get Del Webb to build an "Extreme Retirement" community with MTB trails (for our, *gasp*, ebikes), and hiking trails, but easy access to the grocery store and plenty of orthopedic surgeons. Most of these places are built around golf courses now, but as they say (at least in Boulder), cycling is the new golf.


Check out the Del Webb community in Rancho Vistoso, part of Oro Valley, AZ (right outside Tucson). Very little traffic. Great bike lanes, and some awesome singletrack bike trails that leave right out of the community. Anywhere you lived there would be just a short ride on pavement with bike lanes (great warmup) to those trails and to the 50 Year trail accessed through Catalina State Park. Amazing views. Here's a loop I do there. https://www.strava.com/activities/53182698#961185079 those are the trails from Rancho Vistoso once it hits dirt. The ride starts from my neighborhood, which was Rams Field Pass. Great views, and nice hiking access right out the back of that community as well. You can even connect the two trail systems for a big ride. https://www.strava.com/activities/46676959#9511904789

Grocery store and brew pub nearby. plus 9600' mountain right outside town to escape the heat. It's nice that you can see the snow on it in the winter too, but not have to shovel any


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Well, we just got back from another scouting road trip, had two interviews on the way, we looped through Moab to Cortez, back up through Ridgeway to Montrose, hung out there for a bit, then looped though GJ, back to SLC, then a layover in Hailey.

We love the riding in GJ/Fruita, but the city has really grown, trails are getting beat and it's crowded.

Montrose was our favorite spot, we both thought it was the most liveable, with nice folks, decent services, reasonable housing prices, and moderate growth.

Hailey is too cold and small.
Cortez is too small.
Moab is Disneyland.
Fruita is more or less Grand Juntion north.

Anyone considering Phoenix must love traffic.

We're probably on hold in Wenatchee, wife says we wait until the kids settle... but you never know, winter is here and the trails are gonna close out soon.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> We're probably on hold in Wenatchee, wife says we wait until the kids settle... but you never know, winter is here and the trails are gonna close out soon.


Wife makes sense???


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Well, we just got back from another scouting road trip, had two interviews on the way, we looped through Moab to Cortez, back up through Ridgeway to Montrose, hung out there for a bit, then looped though GJ, back to SLC, then a layover in Hailey.
> 
> We love the riding in GJ/Fruita, but the city has really grown, trails are getting beat and it's crowded.
> 
> ...


The highlight of Montrose for me is the access to Telluride w/o the Telluride real estate prices. I haven't MTB'd there but I hear there is some great riding and it's only going to get better. I don't doubt that at all but if I was willing to put up with those Winter temps, I'd just go all in and move somewhere where I'd have EASY, 15-20 minute access to a great ski resort.


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## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

Given what happened last night, retirement to somewhere in BC is looking a lot more attractive.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Jing said:


> Given what happened last night, retirement to somewhere in BC is looking a lot more attractive.


Hit me up later and I'll let you know if I have any Lyft & Uber credits left after I get Kanye and Kim to the border. Rosie and Al Sharpton needs rides too but I'm there to help anyway I can.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

It's a great day in America! In before the bin!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Jing said:


> Given what happened last night, retirement to somewhere in BC is looking a lot more attractive.


Don't let the door hit the back of your camel toe on the way out!


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Don't let the door hit the back of your camel toe on the way out!


Really


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Jing said:


> Given what happened last night, retirement to somewhere in BC is looking a lot more attractive.


We've considered BC a few times over the years, dang we're practically there now! The downside is colder, darker, and wetter.

If they used nurse practitioner more, I'd consider a move to the east side of Vancouver Island, it's the sunny side, tons of riding.

Not to make this into a political thread, but since we're tallking about retirement...

I'm kinda pissed off today because my investments just too a huge dump after five years of recovery. At this rate my investments will show zero growth over ten years.

Stupid arse politics!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> The highlight of Montrose for me is the access to Telluride w/o the Telluride real estate prices. I haven't MTB'd there but I hear there is some great riding and it's only going to get better. I don't doubt that at all but if I was willing to put up with those Winter temps, I'd just go all in and move somewhere where I'd have EASY, 15-20 minute access to a great ski resort.


I'm fifteen minutes from good skiing now, but the riding is meh unless I'm willing to drive an hour or more.

I ride waaay more than I ski, esp when you consider the longer riding season, so I'd prefer backdoor riding and an hour drive for skiing.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm kinda pissed off today because my investments just too a huge dump after five years of recovery. At this rate my investments will show zero growth over ten years.


Mine are way up????

Maybe check again Dow at record highs???


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm kinda pissed off today because my investments just too a huge dump after five years of recovery. At this rate my investments will show zero growth over ten years.


Time for a new FC. Where do you live?


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Yeah, I deal with mostly biotech and energy related stocks and was up 9.89% overall. Another 3.6% today so far.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

I retired 2 months ago. I live in Mission Viejo in SoCal. We are planning on staying here as there is so much to do. It has everything. There are decent trails around and a lot of road biking, plus the beach, all the amenities, etc. And there is great year round weather.

What I have found is that even though there is a lot of people and traffic, it is different when you are retired. My wife decided to retire at the same time and it has been a blast (although only 2 months in). It is more of a I don't know what day it is and what do you want to do today. Having all the time in the world and doing whatever you want during the week changes the perception of things. Traffic is not that bad, the trails are less crowded, less people in the water, lunch specials, etc. We have gone to Knott's Berry Farm (amusement park) a number of times (after school started) and have been the first ones on a ride and ridden it 3 times before anyone else showed up. May not be the same for Disneyland, but we'll get a pass and go and leave when we want.

But the reality of retirement also brings a few things to consider...

You have to be able to afford it. If you can afford to stay where you are and you have everything you need, it is not that bad an option. If you have lived somewhere and only experienced it evenings and weekends it may be worth you while to check it out before just getting out of town. Or you buy a second home someplace like AZ and split your time so you never have winter.

I'm going on Medicare in a week and that helps, but my wife is only 60 so we are going through all of that insurance stuff. And you have to make sure that there are good doctors and hospitals in the area because stuff happens as you get older.

As much as I want to believe that I will be active until the day I die, I know that probably won't be the case. I have to find a place that will last the rest of my life or buy a great investment that allows me to pick up my life and move if I have to.

For me it is more than just the best place to ride, because life is 24/7 and riding isn't. And if I have to pack up the bike and drive someplace to ride, what do I care, I have all day, and the next, and the next...

John


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

70sSanO said:


> For me it is more than just the best place to ride, because life is 24/7 and riding isn't. And if I have to pack up the bike and drive someplace to ride, what do I care, I have all day, and the next, and the next...
> 
> John


Congratulations on your retirement. I agree with most of what you say, except the part about it being no big deal to pack up your bike and drive. You may not mind it at 65, but as you get older, driving becomes more and more of an obstacle for most people.

It is crazy to me, because I love to drive and I drive a lot, but I know people in their early 60's in the Denver area that are so freaked out by traffic that they are essentially living 100% within a two mile radius of their house. I think people need to evaluate their level of tolerance of driving and really consider that when they choose where to retire.


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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

70sSanO said:


> For me it is more than just the best place to ride, because life is 24/7 and riding isn't. And if I have to pack up the bike and drive someplace to ride, what do I care, I have all day, and the next, and the next...
> 
> John


Congrats on your retirement! Love your perspective!


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

70sSanO said:


> I retired 2 months ago. I live in Mission Viejo in SoCal. We are planning on staying here as there is so much to do. It has everything. There are decent trails around and a lot of road biking, plus the beach, all the amenities, etc. And there is great year round weather.
> John


My daughter & SIL escaped Aliso Viejo 1 year ago for Prescott Az. We've spent a fair amount of time in the past 8 years in SoCal from San Diego to SF and we love the state but there are just 4X too many people. Even in "off" times there are more people about, driving, eating, riding, hiking, etc. than we ever see in the busiest times around here. Perspective.

Glad you're where you want to be and make it work. Have a great retirement!


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Just buy an RV. Winter in AZ, summer in BC. 
Quartzite AZ is called 'Southern Canada' half the year.


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

dave54 said:


> Just buy an RV. Winter in AZ, summer in BC.
> Quartzite AZ is called 'Southern Canada' half the year.


Ever been to Quartzite? There's nothing there but nothing.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

azjeff said:


> Ever been to Quartzite? There's nothing there but nothing.


It's the 3rd most populous city in AZ for (4) months out of the year. Not defending it because it's essentially wasteland to *most* people but all those folks gathering together with common interests have to have some sort of fun. They have that swap meet / marketplace to spend some time & money at plus the ones that are into desert toys have the world at their doorstep.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

azjeff said:


> My daughter & SIL escaped Aliso Viejo 1 year ago for Prescott Az. We've spent a fair amount of time in the past 8 years in SoCal from San Diego to SF and we love the state but there are just 4X too many people. Even in "off" times there are more people about, driving, eating, riding, hiking, etc. than we ever see in the busiest times around here. Perspective.
> 
> Glad you're where you want to be and make it work. Have a great retirement!


Escaped is the right word for sure. I grew up in OC and the parents still live in the same house in Irvine so I go back frequently. Since I left in 1986, I have been in various parts of Northern San Diego County. Not unlike most of SoCal, OC is definitely overgrown and traffic is ugly, ugly, ugly. Riding exists but when compared to soooooo many other places, it is pretty sub-par. The weather and ability to essentially ride year round can't be beat though.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

Thanks for the positive replies. Retirement is certainly a blast, but I kept moving the date from 60 to 62 and now 65. The extra 5 years of working really helped. We have paid off the house and all of our kids are married and on their own. Two of them are in Arizona because housing is cheaper. And one of them didn't want to deal with the traffic.

The traffic on the roads really doesn't bother me, the crowded lineups are another thing. Even mid-week it is crowded, especially if the surf is good. At my age I'm not as picky so I'll find a niche and just have fun.

John


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone looking at Carson City? Got a job potential, haven't been there in decades, was just in Reno, wondering hiw much things have natured over on the other side of the vally.

We're snowed out in Wenatchee, it's skiing, hiking, or snow biking. I built a new fat bike, mounted some skis, in winter mode.


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## rorhound (Aug 23, 2013)

13 more working days...........................


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Just found this sub-forum and enjoyed reading much of this thread. Lots of good ideas in here, though I admit to skimming some pages.

Seems our plan for retirement has been evolving for a few years. Fortunately we love living and riding in Northern Colorado and would likely be happy here through retirement. Of the 3500 miles I have ridden so far this year, over 2500 have been dirt and all but a handful have been from my front door. Great bike culture, as well. 

We have talked about spending 3-5 months here in the shoulder seasons, while summers would be spent in the Colorado mountains and possibly wintering in New Zealand. We've discussed buying small homes in each place and leasing them out while not using them in order to cover the costs, but are concerned about getting bored with the same spots each year. The plan now looks more like only keeping our primary residence in Fort Collins and leasing it out while away. Then using the income from that to rent homes in different locations each year in order to ride and visit as many different places as possible.

In the mean time, we try to take regular 1-3 week mini-retirements to travel as often as possible because we don't want to put off our fun until we are too old to enjoy it, or have to worry about planning for retirement for years only to get hit by a bus on day one of retirement. This year included Bora Bora, Florida, Moab, Austin, and New Zealand.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Second reply to this thread; addressing the issue of traffic. One of the benefits of retirement is that we (hopefully) won't be driving at rush hour with the soccer moms or home from the mountains on Sunday late afternoon with the working stiffs. I'm 51, have been planning retirement my whole life. We moved strategically from Maryland to Arizona five years ago. We have a home in the hills up and above and NE of Phoenix, and can ride 2 miles to the Dixie Mine trail head which opens 160 miles of riding in McDowell Mountain Park, McDowell Sonoran Preserve, and Brown Ranch. And, as mentioned, this doesn't include the other 1000 miles of trails at about a dozen other Premium riding areas. The riding in PHX is fantastic all year long - 365 days - but admittedly Summer from Mid June till about mid October means night riding or starting at 5AM to have an enjoyable ride.

But why would you ride in PHX in July when Arizona is affordable. We are lucky enough to also have a small condo in Prescott, at about 6000 feet, riding distance from the Thumb Butte trail network and the Prescott Circle Trail. The riding in Prescott is fantastic, absolutely superb. The MTB scene is great and the Prescott Mountain Bike Alliance is building new trails every month professionally designed for mountain biking. You should try out the new #325 FireWater trail near Thumb Butte to see what I mean. And from Prescott, Sedona is a day trip not a road trip!

Driving from PHX to "Preskitt" Friday evening and back again on Sunday afternoon at 2PM sort of sucks, at best, but why would you?

Pics below with Sedona slick rock; then Bell Pass above Fountain Hills (with a young blood).Video below from Prescott (my 60 y/o riding buddy).

How you gonna beat that, all in a two hour radius?















Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Closing on a house in Flagstaff, AZ in 30 days. We will rent it out for a year before we turn it to a VRBO then move in after a few years. Need to make the beans living on the East coast before we can wind down but why not have a play place in the meanwhile?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Crockpot2001 said:


> VRBO


Love that web site!


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Is there any riding in Quartzite? It's been a few years but last time I was there the only thing I saw was just middle of the afternoon drunk snowbirds.
If you cannot afford 2 residences then I think Flagstaff is a excellent choice. 20 min to Sedona and high enough to stay cooler in the summer.


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## Dream Plus (Feb 12, 2004)

I rode from Yuma to Quartzite on a Xcountry trip in early summer 1985. Left in the dark to avoid the heat. Saw no one on Rte 95 the entire time. Got blown away by a dust devil in Quartzite but made it to the Camel Corp Monumnet. It's flat and dusty from what I remember. Oh and HOT.
Hi Jolly's Tomb, Quartzsite, Arizona


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

rlee said:


> Is there any riding in Quartzite? It's been a few years but last time I was there the only thing I saw was just middle of the afternoon drunk snowbirds.
> If you cannot afford 2 residences then I think Flagstaff is a excellent choice. 20 min to Sedona and high enough to stay cooler in the summer.


It may only be 28-30 miles to Sedona from Flagstaff but no way are you going to make it in 20 minutes. It takes us closer to an hour on 89A and much longer if you stay on the NE side of Flag like we do.

As far as Quartzite goes, *most* people other than the snowbirds would consider the area is wasteland.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Crockpot2001 said:


> Closing on a house in Flagstaff, AZ in .....


NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT !

Hit me up when you get out here and I'll meet you halfway; show you the good (safe) stuff in Sedona !










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Scott In MD said:


> NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT !
> 
> Hit me up when you get out here and I'll meet you halfway; show you the good (safe) stuff in Sedona !
> 
> ...


Sweet! We will be out for the closing in January and do some snowshoeing. Likley be out in April to review the repairs and rehab work before putting it on the rental market for one year. I iwll bring a bike on that trip. I cannot rent due to being 6'5".


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone look at Carson City?

I lived in Truckee and went to school in Reno, back then Carson was pretty basic, seems like it's maturing.

Not the level of riding I'd get in GJ, but it has potential.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Crockpot2001 said:


> Sweet! We will be out for the closing in January and do some snowshoeing. Likley be out in April to review the repairs and rehab work before putting it on the rental market for one year. I iwll bring a bike on that trip. I cannot rent due to being 6'5".


If you are settled enough in April to stay for a while, then yes, bring your bike and you'll be able to ride the lower elevations and Sedona. BTW Absolute Bikes in Flag has a fleet of rentals and demos that are as good as anything you'll need. They also have a shop in Sedona (south of the Y, in Village of Oak Creek). Let them know your coming and they can have a bike ready that will fit you. Riding your own is mo' bettah' but flying w bike is a hassle >> just passing the info along.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Scott In MD said:


> If you are settled enough in April to stay for a while, then yes, bring your bike and you'll be able to ride the lower elevations and Sedona. BTW Absolute Bikes in Flag has a fleet of rentals and demos that are as good as anything you'll need. They also have a shop in Sedona (south of the Y, in Village of Oak Creek). Let them know your coming and they can have a bike ready that will fit you. Riding your own is mo' bettah' but flying w bike is a hassle >> just passing the info along.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Well, at 6'5" a rental just does not work. I will likely be having a bike built up and just leave it there or, at least be more comfortable shipping it as opposed to my Carbon bike.


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## 1242Vintage (Dec 7, 2013)

Fifty-two years old and planning on hanging up the 9 to 5 work life 15 months from now. Live in the foothills of Northern Ca. Have miles of trails and gravel roads right outside my backyard. Fixing up the family house to be energy efficient and maintenance free and plan to retire right where I am at. Figured with the great weather and relatively low property tax (for California) why move. Besides I have a great big shop and garage on the side of the house so I have a place to go when my bride gets annoyed with me post retirement and kicks me out of the house or a few hours. 

Still riding and racing cross and mountain many weekends and plan to continue into retirement. Wife and I love to travel so between riding, racing, and travel I won't be missing work at all.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

1242Vintage said:


> Fifty-two years old and planning on hanging up the 9 to 5 work life 15 months from now. Live in the foothills of Northern Ca. Have miles of trails and gravel roads right outside my backyard. Fixing up the family house to be energy efficient and maintenance free and plan to retire right where I am at. Figured with the great weather and relatively low property tax (for California) why move. Besides I have a great big shop and garage on the side of the house so I have a place to go when my bride gets annoyed with me post retirement and kicks me out of the house or a few hours.
> 
> Still riding and racing cross and mountain many weekends and plan to continue into retirement. Wife and I love to travel so between riding, racing, and travel I won't be missing work at all.


Glad you like Cali, but personally I find California way to busy and expensive, can't see retiring anywhere south of Redding.

FYI, there's no such thing as maintenance free. Just saying.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

We're interviewing in Carson City, lots of trail building, up and coming, not Grand Junction, but tons of potential.


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## Guest (Jan 8, 2017)

SWriverstone said:


> I feel compelled to post up that all you guys retiring in your 40's and 50's are in a VERY elite and lucky minority. Do I envy you? Absolutely. But are you "normal?" Not even close. You're probably part of the 1% (or darn close to it).
> 
> As I mentioned earlier, having enough of a mountain of cash and investments to kick back and goof around for a decade or three means you are FAR above the means of the majority of Americans.
> 
> ...


 Hummm. Well, let's. I was enlisted Air Force for 33 years, lived cheap and paid things off. Our cars average 168K miles (and we bought them used). We did save because we both worked and only had one child. At 54 I'm working another fulltime job that pays 1/3 what I was making (8 hours a day at a computer, standing, cranking out work on production) but I could retire on my pension and savings because we live off less than 40K/year.

I will cop to the "elite" part though. I've got almost no cartilage left in my shoulders or knees, crushed two discs in my back in Afghanistan in 2007. Finished a bachelors and masters while working full time and raising my son. Can anyone do what I did? Sure, no magic about working hard, living cheap and saving your money.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> We're interviewing in Carson City, lots of trail building, up and coming, not Grand Junction, but tons of potential.


A lil' on the "blah" side for me, at least in the Winter (I've never been there in the Summer) especially when looking down on it from Mt Rose. Then again, no state income tax, access to Tahoe and all it has to offer and you're right, the potential is there and the City seems to be behind the idea of building new trails. They were very receptive to the Epic Ride event. It can only get better there.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Forster, you're the 1% elite for sure. Just not the "elite" that Riverstone is mentioning. Hooah, indeed, bro'. 


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

Central Florida Is where I will stay. I got lightening, (was Hit In my Van) Auto Insurance covered It.
Got a few lethal snakes and some really big Alligators but you just about have to fill out an application and make an appointment to get bit...
Lots of Hogs, occasional case of rabies, Biggest cats a wild cat, 20-35 pounds.
No mountain lions gonna jump me down here...

Central US Tornado's Kill you with little time to react.
Desert dry heat Is not for me, I am 96% water 
Earthquakes,,,really ? House falls on me ? Not this boy!

Deep Snow, cold, stuck In the house, Biking In the cold frigid air, plowing on a fat bike Really ? Sorry but that's, 'Toes up on the couch watching TV' weather. Did North Dakota and Germany and It was fun but leaving was ~~~funner~~

Florida's Hurricanes, Pfft I can see em coming for a week and most of them just clean out the trees and eat mobile homes.
I can ride year around and the few cold months we have are nothing more than an excuse to wear a long sleeve jersey and leg warmers, maybe full fingered gloves.
Or Miss a few weekend rides,,,, at home,,,
wait for It,,,
'Toes up on the couch watching TV' Hey !

As for the humidity, yeah It's heavy and makes you sweat, people call me a 'Walking Rain Forest'

I call It a cleansing, but I can ride year around.

Going out today 1/9/2017
I'll hit the trails at high noon 
Full sun,
not a cloud In the sky,
It's 55 now at 11 AM and the high will be 67 at 2 PM then It drifts down a dozen degrees and a brisk breeze makes for a good suffer when I start plowing the head wind.
I'll stay here.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Nice that you are satisfied with so little.


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## Guest (Jan 9, 2017)

Scott In MD said:


> Forster, you're the 1% elite for sure. Just not the "elite" that Riverstone is mentioning. Hooah, indeed, bro'.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


 Our numbers are probably closer to .7%, but I'm glad to be amongst and happy that things worked out as well as they did. A lot of brothers and sisters in arms have markedly less (if anything).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The idea of riding in Florida gives me the sweats, I'm pretty sure you are safe from a sudden incursion of mountain bikers.


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## Osco (Apr 4, 2013)

< Hahahaha, "The sweats" yeah I resemble that remark 

I would not want a sudden incursion, as we already have traffic jams on the weekends, especially on the North Creek trail at Alafia and the parking areas over flow here and at Boyette every weekend. 














Fat Tire Festival overflow,,


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Osco said:


> Central Florida Is where I will stay. I got lightening, (was Hit In my Van) Auto Insurance covered It.
> Got a few lethal snakes and some really big Alligators but you just about have to fill out an application and make an appointment to get bit...
> Lots of Hogs, occasional case of rabies, Biggest cats a wild cat, 20-35 pounds.
> No mountain lions gonna jump me down here...
> ...


But you have no mountains! Ok, a lot of folks around here would say the same about metro Atlanta and even the Appalachians in North Georgia.

Florida's too flat for me and not enough nice trees, though maybe it's nicer where you are. That's why I could never live in a lot of the west, I like forest with rolling hills.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

chazpat said:


> ...That's why I could never live in a lot of the west, I like forest with rolling hills.


That's why when we moved West, we ended up in the Santa Cruz mountains.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> A lil' on the "blah" side for me, at least in the Winter (I've never been there in the Summer) especially when looking down on it from Mt Rose. Then again, no state income tax, access to Tahoe and all it has to offer and you're right, the potential is there and the City seems to be behind the idea of building new trails. They were very receptive to the Epic Ride event. It can only get better there.


Yeah, that about sums it up.

Carson has lots of potential, good mix of weather, close to the good stuff, no crowds, housing is a bit pricey (the California effect).

Interviewing at the end of the month, hope the wife likes the town

The idea of retirement baffles me a bit, personally I like working and I like making money, my work rarely gets in the way of my fun.

I didn't have a career until my thirties, ski and paddle bum med for years, traveled the world, had a good time though being poor and having a lack of stability gets old.

I have a great career that is super flexible, pays well, and I'll be able to do it until I have a foot in the grave or I lose my senses 

My retirement is wherever I can find a nice mix of work and play.

Right now I just want to be free of single digit temps!


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## Crockpot2001 (Nov 2, 2004)

Forster said:


> Hummm. Well, let's. I was enlisted Air Force for 33 years, lived cheap and paid things off. Our cars average 168K miles (and we bought them used). We did save because we both worked and only had one child. At 54 I'm working another fulltime job that pays 1/3 what I was making (8 hours a day at a computer, standing, cranking out work on production) but I could retire on my pension and savings because we live off less than 40K/year.
> 
> I will cop to the "elite" part though. I've got almost no cartilage left in my shoulders or knees, crushed two discs in my back in Afghanistan in 2007. Finished a bachelors and masters while working full time and raising my son. Can anyone do what I did? Sure, no magic about working hard, living cheap and saving your money.


THE boss!


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

Move up here to B.C. Your US dollar will go a long way.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

well our dollar exchanges well but there are a lot things in BC that are pretty pricey. And some towns have real-estate values that are pretty high- Remember Vancouver is currently ranked the third most expensive city in the world

Where in the Kootenays are you?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Kootbiker said:


> Move up here to B.C. Your US dollar will go a long way.


Vancouver Island if I could get a job...


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

dave54 said:


> Just buy an RV. Winter in AZ, summer in BC.
> Quartzite AZ is called 'Southern Canada' half the year.


I have heard it called the place where people are driving $400,000 motorhomes pulling $40,000 SUVs looking for free camping.

Going to have to go at least once just to see the circus.

We bought our RV last week but have to wait till March to get it. The plan is to wander south for the winter then head to Randle for 3-5 months. There are so many places to ride on the way to Tucson. Places with with camping right near the trail heads. But I ain't telling. Road 18 in Fruita has a BLM campground right in the middle of it. My plan is to find the little pockets of riding; 20 mile trail systems and a place to park the trailer. Few days there, then on to the next spot. Just to look at country.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

SlimL said:


> Places with with camping right near the trail heads. But I ain't telling. Road 18 in Fruita has a BLM campground right in the middle of it. My plan is to find the little pockets of riding; 20 mile trail systems and a place to park the trailer. Few days there, then on to the next spot. Just to look at country.


Don't forget about our little slice of paradise outside of Cortez on your way down to Tucson. Boggy Draw trails are nice flowing singletrack and can camp anywhere up there. Get up have some coffee and hit the trail.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Vancouver Island if I could get a job...


New hospital being built in Courtenay BC, just down the road from Cumberland.


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

threepin said:


> well our dollar exchanges well but there are a lot things in BC that are pretty pricey. And some towns have real-estate values that are pretty high- Remember Vancouver is currently ranked the third most expensive city in the world
> 
> Where in the Kootenays are you?


Nelson area, the interior of B.C. Is the opposite of Vancouver with low populations and very few jobs available.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

thought so
i have spent a ton of time in nelson
every time i go up there i wonder how people make it work financially- I would think that the region due south of you in the states is a good bit less expensive

Remember real-estate there has probably more than tripled in the last 15 years, energy prices are high as are food and most goods. taxes also are on a different level but at least health care is more affordable.

As far as quality of life - pretty darn nice as are the residents- enjoy



Kootbiker said:


> Nelson area, the interior of B.C. Is the opposite of Vancouver with low populations and very few jobs available.


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## snowboarder (Dec 31, 2016)

Forster said:


> Sure, no magic about working hard, living cheap and saving your money.


To use your money when you are old, sick and tired. A great idea.
I prefer to use it when I can use it...


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## snowboarder (Dec 31, 2016)

Kootbiker said:


> Move up here to B.C. Your US dollar will go a long way.


just learn Chinese LOL.


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm intrigued. You have two ski areas within shouting distance, both with great terrain so my winter would be covered. So, how is the internet service and cell phone service and what kind of growth is the area seeing?

We currently live in Crested Butte but am looking at taking off when my son graduates in 6 years. I prefer something remote and from the map Nelson looks like it would fit the bill. One of the real negatives driving us out of Colorado and Crested Butte are the crowds and the unchecked growth.



Kootbiker said:


> Nelson area, the interior of B.C. Is the opposite of Vancouver with low populations and very few jobs available.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Travis Bickle said:


> New hospital being built in Courtenay BC, just down the road from Cumberland.


They rarely use nurse practitioners in Canada, maybe twenty years from now... same thing in New Zealand and Australia, guess it just hasn't caught on.

This weekend we're in Carson City interviewing, great town, it's really grown up in the past few decades, might just have to move here


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

JakeCB said:


> I'm intrigued. You have two ski areas within shouting distance, both with great terrain so my winter would be covered. So, how is the internet service and cell phone service and what kind of growth is the area seeing?
> 
> We currently live in Crested Butte but am looking at taking off when my son graduates in 6 years. I prefer something remote and from the map Nelson looks like it would fit the bill. One of the real negatives driving us out of Colorado and Crested Butte are the crowds and the unchecked growth.


Crested Butte and Telluride are some of the most remote anti-growth places free from the typical Colorado population I've ever been which have skiing so close. Curious...are you tired of the Crested Butte area or just looking for something new? While the Denver metro is getting very populated (we are in Fort Collins) at one point I am sure we will sell our house and the plan is maybe a townhouse in Steamboat and something in the Tucson/Oro Valley area to escape the cold and/or mud season. We still have 8 years until our daughter is out of the house, but already daydreaming about it. My wife is from Bigfork MT, no way will she ever go north of CO again. Beautiful country up there, but she STILL has nightmares of collecting wood every summer to burn in the winter!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

2melow said:


> Crested Butte and Telluride are some of the most remote anti-growth places free from the typical Colorado population I've ever been which have skiing so close. Curious...are you tired of the Crested Butte area or just looking for something new? While the Denver metro is getting very populated (we are in Fort Collins) at one point I am sure we will sell our house and the plan is maybe a townhouse in Steamboat and something in the Tucson/Oro Valley area to escape the cold and/or mud season. We still have 8 years until our daughter is out of the house, but already daydreaming about it. My wife is from Bigfork MT, no way will she ever go north of CO again. Beautiful country up there, but she STILL has nightmares of collecting wood every summer to burn in the winter!


I looked at Big Fork for about (6) months but in the end decided that I didn't want to be in snow that much of the year.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Maybe they shoulda called it "Big Shovel"?

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> I looked at Big Fork for about (6) months but in the end decided that I didn't want to be in snow that much of the year.


We went for 2 weeks to visit the in laws over Christmas one year and never saw the sun the entire trip. Coming from Colorado where it is always sunny that would be a tough move mentally I would think. Wicked fog and low cloud cover about, hence all those snow ghosts on Big Mountain ski resort. I can deal with snow, but no sun? No thanks. AMAZING in the summer though!


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

2melow said:


> We went for 2 weeks to visit the in laws over Christmas one year and never saw the sun the entire trip. Coming from Colorado where it is always sunny that would be a tough move mentally I would think. Wicked fog and low cloud cover about, hence all those snow ghosts on Big Mountain ski resort. I can deal with snow, but no sun? No thanks. AMAZING in the summer though!


Yikes. No thanks. My daughter dealt with that in college in Portland....then promptly moved to Texas where she gets plenty of sun. We're locked into Prescott for now and should start building in 2019 though I'm always looking for other options.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Just got back from Carson City, great looking town, it's changed a lot since I last visited in 1988. Plenty of riding, more trails being built, awesome access to BLM, wilderness, and USFS lands.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Just got back from Carson City, great looking town, it's changed a lot since I last visited in 1988. Plenty of riding, more trails being built, awesome access to BLM, wilderness, and USFS lands.


Did they make you job offers on the spot? I have to imagine that Carson City needs qualified medical professionals. A friend of mine is looking into moving to Round Rock, Texas and his wife is an OB nurse and in every interview, they offered her a job starting as soon as she could. The issue is the pay isn't even 50% of what she makes here in San Diego.


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## Kootbiker (Feb 2, 2016)

JakeCB said:


> I'm intrigued. You have two ski areas within shouting distance, both with great terrain so my winter would be covered. So, how is the internet service and cell phone service and what kind of growth is the area seeing?
> 
> We currently live in Crested Butte but am looking at taking off when my son graduates in 6 years. I prefer something remote and from the map Nelson looks like it would fit the bill. One of the real negatives driving us out of Colorado and Crested Butte are the crowds and the unchecked growth.


Internet is slow, cell service is spotty and very few humans as I am on the east side of the lake from Nelson. But in Nelson which is a city of 10k everything is there.


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

2melow said:


> Crested Butte and Telluride are some of the most remote anti-growth places free from the typical Colorado population I've ever been which have skiing so close. Curious...are you tired of the Crested Butte area or just looking for something new? While the Denver metro is getting very populated (we are in Fort Collins) at one point I am sure we will sell our house and the plan is maybe a townhouse in Steamboat and something in the Tucson/Oro Valley area to escape the cold and/or mud season. We still have 8 years until our daughter is out of the house, but already daydreaming about it. My wife is from Bigfork MT, no way will she ever go north of CO again. Beautiful country up there, but she STILL has nightmares of collecting wood every summer to burn in the winter!


I still love the winters in CB but the summers are just too crowded.

As for no growth. The town of CB is very anti growth (actually a big problem) but the county is pretty easy to work with. I don't see the actual growth of the local population as being my problem, though we are seeing more suburban types moving who bring a different mentality and some of the older locals have issue with it.

For me it is all of Colorado and the fact that the unchecked growth on the Front Range is really beginning to affect the state as a whole.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

JakeCB said:


> For me it is all of Colorado and the fact that the unchecked growth on the Front Range is really beginning to affect the state as a whole.


Amen. I think Colorado is in the exact same situation areas of California were in around 1955. The people who arrived in CA from the turn of the century to the 50's were aghast at what was happening in the 50's, while the people moving there from the east thought it was a quaint rural outpost. A critical mass was starting to be reached. Now, places like the San Jose area that were absolute paradise, are a mess. Boulder county is Santa Clara county, 1955. Hard to believe, but true. In fact, the flatland areas of Boulder county are actually more dense than Santa Clara county back then since the 340K people are almost all crammed into half the county. Boulder itself can try to control growth, but the rest of Boulder county, plus Weld, Broomfield and Jeffco, are wide open. Silicon Valley, here we come.

Extrapolate that to the rest of the front range. You have people who have lived here a long time who are aghast, and people moving here from elsewhere seeing it as a quaint rural outpost dying to be "improved". Screw that, we are out of here as soon as my wife can collect her pension. Unfortunately, we'll have to accept that we will be seen as invaders just as we see the people crowding into the front range.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

My wife and I have always thought we would end up retiring in Moab, but quite frankly, Moab these days looks to be a slow motion trainwreck in the sense that they keep building and building tourist oriented stuff, while the residential building is almost all giant apartment hovels needed for the workers. The entire feel of the place is being transformed, and of course, the outdoor opportunities are suffering because there are simply more and more and more people swarming there every season. We can't retire for another five years, and I think at that point we will be 15 years too late. In case you don't keep up with the Moab area, they are gearing up to put a Utah State U. campus there that will add another 1000-2000 people to the current population of 5-6000. Then, down south, San Juan county starts about four miles south of downtown. Until now, Grand county has refused to extend utilities down there, which has limited growth. The state has now said they will build water/sewer treatment facilities in San Juan, four miles south of downtown Moab, so that 4000 acres of state land can be developed. 4000 acres. They project 10,000+ people down there eventually. No thanks. 

I think about all of the places I've spent time in CO and UT, and Mancos stands out. We don't want an area that is exclusively desert or mountains, which is why we like Moab so much. Mancos seems to have a similar mix of access to terrain and outdoor opportunities, and is probably unlikely to be overrun in our 30 year window. Right? Right? Please let me know if there are any 10,000 plus developments planned, or any other secrets.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

honkinunit said:


> I think about all of the places I've spent time in CO and UT, and Mancos stands out. We don't want an area that is exclusively desert or mountains, which is why we like Moab so much. Mancos seems to have a similar mix of access to terrain and outdoor opportunities, and is probably unlikely to be overrun in our 30 year window. Right? Right? Please let me know if there are any 10,000 plus developments planned, or any other secrets.


I think you're safe in Mancos. I could personally make do on the mesas above Dolores as well which whole put me wishing riding distance of Boggy Draw and downtown is old school quaint w/o the Hwy 160 traffic. Admittedly, other than what I see only drive thru once per year, I know very little about Dolores.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

This >>

Quick Facts:
70 miles added to trail system in and around Prescott Basin including : 
60 miles non-motorized
10 miles motorized
30 miles rerouted to address natural resource concerns
40 miles of new trail construction
35 miles of old trail removed, mitigated, obliterated and decommissioned
6 trailheads improved and enlarged
2 newly created trailheads

Total trails within immediate area surrounding City of Prescott: 300 miles

PRESCOTT, AZ (January 20, 2017) - On January 19, Sarah Tomsky, District Ranger on the Bradshaw District of the Prescott National Forest signed the final decision for the Greater Prescott Trails Plan, Mid-Term Project #1. This project will add approximately 70 miles of trail to the trail system in and around the Prescott Basin area, 60 non-motorized and 10 motorized. This includes the adoption of approximately 30 miles of unauthorized trails with reroutes to address natural resource concerns; construction of up to 40 miles of new trails; improvement and enlargement of 6 trailheads; and the creation of 2 new trailheads. This addition to the trail system provides over 300 miles of trail within the immediate area surrounding the City of Prescott. This process will also mitigate, obliterate, and decommission approximately 35 miles of unnecessary, unsustainable, and/or duplicate trails. The Prescott National Forest and its partners in this project believe that it will improve the trail system in the Prescott Basin and neighboring areas by providing additional trail opportunities, trail connections, and reasonable access points while reducing trail user conflicts and safety concerns and limiting resource damage from soil erosion.

More at ...

http://www.prescottenews.com/index....iles-of-new-trails-in-the-prescott-basin-area

And here's what a weekend PMBA club ride looks like (although this ride yesterday actually took place on a road trip 2 hours south of Prescott at Brown's Ranch, in 68 degree sunny weather).










Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Yep I think you'd be safe in Mancos like K2 said. We're 4 miles north of Cortez. Dolores is a very small town and the Mesas above it seem to get more snow than we do. The bike club down here grooms trails all winter up at Boggy Draw and they do a great job and the trails are great.
We've been down here a little over 2 years from the Denver and love it down here.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

woody.1 said:


> Yep I think you'd be safe in Mancos like K2 said. We're 4 miles north of Cortez. Dolores is a very small town and the Mesas above it seem to get more snow than we do. The bike club down here grooms trails all winter up at Boggy Draw and they do a great job and the trails are great.
> We've been down here a little over 2 years from the Denver and love it down here.


Thanks. We like the idea of have access to the mountains but at the same time being able to ride most of the year with a little driving. I actually know two people who retired to the Dolores area, but both ended up moving on, one to Arizona and the other to Florida. One wanted warmer winters and the other wanted better access to health care. We've been through there numerous times and have spent a couple weeks camping in total in the Telluride/Cortez/Durango triangle. We'll have to start keeping an eye on things down that way.

Honestly, Moab was perfect for us 20 years ago, but holy crap, it looks like they are intent on turning into another Vail. Here is an example that makes me laugh my ass off:

https://www.facebook.com/HoodooMoab/

Edward Abbey spins in his grave again. Every time I see that I think of this South Park riff. Coming soon, SoDoMo:


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

woody.1 said:


> Yep I think you'd be safe in Mancos like K2 said. We're 4 miles north of Cortez. Dolores is a very small town and the Mesas above it seem to get more snow than we do. The bike club down here grooms trails all winter up at Boggy Draw and they do a great job and the trails are great.
> We've been down here a little over 2 years from the Denver and love it down here.


There's another reason for living near Mancos...Absolute Bakery & Cafe!


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

honkinunit said:


> Honestly, Moab was perfect for us 20 years ago, but holy crap, it looks like they are intent on turning into another Vail. Here is an example that makes me laugh my ass off:
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/HoodooMoab/
> 
> ...


Man that's over the top. I hear you on Moab 20 years ago. I've been going out there every year since 1985 and wow has it changed. I thought about Fruita, but we wanted a little land so we started looking down here. We like going over to Cedar Mesa area in Utah and hiking the Indian Runis. Did a 4 day 3 night bikepacking trip in the area as well.
In an 1-1.5 hour drive in Any direction you can have desert, mountains, mesas whatever you want.


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## woody.1 (Jun 10, 2008)

Simplemind said:


> There's another reason for living near Mancos...Absolute Bakery & Cafe!


Well yes there is that as well.


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I think retiring to one place is restrictive. I live on the Greatest Place on Earth (see thread) most of the time, but I'm spending this winter in Scottsdale, AZ. I hate the cold now. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

thecanoe said:


> I think retiring to one place is restrictive. I live on the Greatest Place on Earth (see thread) most of the time, but I'm spending this winter in Scottsdale, AZ. I hate the cold now.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Yeah, ummm, no. I really can't see Boston as a place for a mountain biker to retire or quite honestly live.

What comes to mind is salsa and New York City.

I like to ride my bikes year round, not just on vacation

We're moving to Carson City


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

Simplemind said:


> There's another reason for living near Mancos...Absolute Bakery & Cafe!


Amen! 
Its the only thing that keeps my legs spinning on the road ride from Durango to Mancos.
Getting home to Durango is the only thing keeping them spinning on the way back.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Moab jumped the shark quite a while ago for me. Great riding but I don't care for the town.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Travis Bickle said:


> Moab jumped the shark quite a while ago for me. Great riding but I don't care for the town.


Some people really enjoy the hussle and bussle,.Jeep Week is the big deal for many people. Then there are the folks that don't appreciate the crowds.

Moab is fine, it no more jumped the shark than did Sedona, just avoid the popular times and destinations, not unlike any other tourist destination.

I don't go into Moab proper except for supplues, I stay outside town, camp, ride, repeat.


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

Moab can be a zoo, no doubt about it.
But there is so much riding, at so many different levels of trail, that once you get onto a trail, the crowds disappear.
I don't want to live there, but being 2.5 hours away is fantastic!


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Some people really enjoy the hussle and bussle,.Jeep Week is the big deal for many people. Then there are the folks that don't appreciate the crowds.
> 
> Moab is fine, it no more jumped the shark than did Sedona, just avoid the popular times and destinations, not unlike any other tourist destination.
> 
> I don't go into Moab proper except for supplues, I stay outside town, camp, ride, repeat.


The point of this thread is where you would want to *retire*, also know as *living* there. Like, all of the time.

Trust me, other than the people making money on the Jeep Safari, the locals hate it. A lot of them simply leave for the week. It is truly a mess. The real problem is that Jeep Week is only one of many weeks now where the town is completely maxed out. Half-Marathon, Memorial Day, etc. Then you have the random weekends where there are multiple big events going, etc. Last year there was the Skinny Tire Festival, Outerbike, and an adventure race, all on the same weekend. Or was that the fall Outerbike, the Moab Century, and an Art Festival?

You get the idea.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I wouldn't want to live in Moab or Sedona, too touristic for me.


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## Dirtrider127 (Sep 17, 2010)

It seems like this thread has moved to a "where do you want to ride when you get old" topic. My wife and I have had this discussion many times latey and she brought up some good points like how far are we going to be from a hospital, doctors, CVS, friends the same age, etc.

Hopefully everyone will be able to ride in their later years but at some time the bike will stay in the garage more than the trails. 

Places like Prescott works for us but there has been a slight change of plans called Grandchild  Taking a break in the moving think and enjoying this little kid


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## prkoski (Jun 6, 2006)

I'm an avid road and mountain biker and have lived in the San Miguel Basin west of Telluride for 37 years. This place is a cyclists dream come true. No traffic on the highways and totally engulfed in public lands not to mention Moab is 80 miles away, Telluride 55 miles and Fruita 110 miles. Check out westendtrails.org for a great resource on this region of Western Colorado.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

prkoski said:


> I'm an avid road and mountain biker and have lived in the San Miguel Basin west of Telluride for 37 years. This place is a cyclists dream come true. No traffic on the highways and totally engulfed in public lands not to mention Moab is 80 miles away, Telluride 55 miles and Fruita 110 miles. Check out westendtrails.org for a great resource on this region of Western Colorado.


Norwood or ???


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Dirtrider127 said:


> It seems like this thread has moved to a "where do you want to ride when you get old" topic. My wife and I have had this discussion many times latey and she brought up some good points like how far are we going to be from a hospital, doctors, CVS, friends the same age, etc.
> 
> Hopefully everyone will be able to ride in their later years but at some time the bike will stay in the garage more than the trails.
> 
> Places like Prescott works for us but there has been a slight change of plans called Grandchild  Taking a break in the moving think and enjoying this little kid


Yeah, some folks are already retired, some are looking to retire, and some are just looking to move; I'm in the later group cuz I ain't got plans to retire, working is good for me 

As a medical professional, currently working as a hospitalist, I know the value of good and prompt medical care. We will all need care at some point, it's best to plan for it and locate accordingly.

Most of the places mentioned have a decent hospital, Moab is not one of them, neither is Cortez or Telluride. It just depends on your baseline health, predisposition, age, and the level of risk you're willing to tolerate. Notvto be morbid, but thirty minutes can make the difference between returning home or going to a nursing home.


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## Guest (Feb 4, 2017)

Dirtrider127 said:


> It seems like this thread has moved to a "where do you want to ride when you get old" topic.


 On the down side of hills, every ride, no more climbing...Perfect.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

I'm definitely of the "live in two places" mindset -- we're in Austin, TX, which has mild winters, an always amazing spring and every type of high quality medical care that you could imagine within about 15 minutes of our house, AND I want to live in Dolores, CO in the summers/fall.

Lots of inertia from DH, though, who doesn't mind sweating his way through a Texas summer and is still working half time, maybe for another 18 months.

Love Absolute Bakery and Cafe! A little Phil's World in the morning with a follow up @ Absolute. What could be better?

Edited to add a link to an article on the trail system just above Dolores, groomed in winter for fat bikes: Cycling Club holds snow-bike event


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> As a medical professional, currently working as a hospitalist, I know the value of good and prompt medical care. We will all need care at some point, it's best to plan for it and locate accordingly.


We hope to retire when I am 62 and my wife is 60. We plan to get in at least 15 years of real living before we have to stop riding and worry about how far we are from a hospital. Genetics are on our side - my father died at 92 and would lived longer if it wasn't for a bad head injury. He rode a bike until his early 80's. My mother lived to 88 despite smoking for 60 years, eating whatever she felt like, and never exercising a day in her life. My wife's parents are both still unbelievably active in their mid-80's. My mother in law lives alone, and plants, tends and harvests a 100x50 garden by herself, as well as taking care of her house, barn, and five acres. My wife's father remarried, he volunteers on an organic farm where he maintains tractors, irrigation, implements, etc. He engineers and welds up amazing stuff there, and in winter he builds awesome furniture.

Obviously stuff happens, but by the time I'm sick enough to care about living next to a regional hospital, I doubt I'll be riding anyway.

I've ridden RAGBRAI a few times, and there are literally hundreds of people in their 70's that do that ride. Some in their 80's, and then this guy: At 90, Cedar Rapids man ready to ride RAGBRAI | The Gazette

It says in that article that there were four people in their 90's that did the ride last year.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

honkinunit said:


> We hope to retire when I am 62 and my wife is 60. We plan to get in at least 15 years of real living before we have to stop riding and worry about how far we are from a hospital. Genetics are on our side - my father died at 92 and would lived longer if it wasn't for a bad head injury. He rode a bike until his early 80's. My mother lived to 88 despite smoking for 60 years, eating whatever she felt like, and never exercising a day in her life. My wife's parents are both still unbelievably active in their mid-80's. My mother in law lives alone, and plants, tends and harvests a 100x50 garden by herself, as well as taking care of her house, barn, and five acres. My wife's father remarried, he volunteers on an organic farm where he maintains tractors, irrigation, implements, etc. He engineers and welds up amazing stuff there, and in winter he builds awesome furniture.
> 
> Obviously stuff happens, but by the time I'm sick enough to care about living next to a regional hospital, I doubt I'll be riding anyway.
> 
> ...


So funny, no need to tell us your gentic history or defend the vitality of old people, I was simply dropping a hint for folks who may not have good genes on their side.

You'd be amazed how many really sick people live in very remote places...it is literally the death of them 

May you live healthy till you're too old to know better.


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> You'd be amazed how many really sick people live in very remote places...it is literally the death of them


I'm a young and healthy 60, so don't speak from personal experience, but I can certainly understand how some may prefer an alternative to surrendering what's left of their lives and assets to the medical/industrial complex.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

prkoski said:


> I'm an avid road and mountain biker and have lived in the San Miguel Basin west of Telluride for 37 years. This place is a cyclists dream come true. No traffic on the highways and totally engulfed in public lands not to mention Moab is 80 miles away, Telluride 55 miles and Fruita 110 miles. Check out westendtrails.org for a great resource on this region of Western Colorado.


Very interesting. Although not much interested in Colorado this website and area look like they are worth looking into. And with the large expanse of national forest in the area it can allow me another one of my interests; camping with in a short ride of trails. Time to get out Google Maps.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Dirtrider127 said:


> It seems like this thread has moved to a "where do you want to ride when you get old" topic......


And I am OK with that; after all we are a mountain bike forum. I really like that I am getting to know a lot of places from a lot of people who have been there. My plan always has been to travel when I retire and I have gotten so many ideas, must ride spots, to add to my list from this thread. I Like It!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Ntmboy said:


> I'm a young and healthy 60, so don't speak from personal experience, but I can certainly understand how some may prefer an alternative to surrendering what's left of their lives and assets to the medical/industrial complex.


Now that is some funny shite. I hear that stuff all the time, a guy (usually) lying in bed says " I'm fine, I don't none of you medicine, I just need to go home".

and pray tell, why were they admitted....cuz they were too sick to get well without the medical industrial model.

There's a river in Egypt, you seem to know it


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Holy smokes, this thread turned into propagating the run away medical industry.


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> Now that is some funny shite. I hear that stuff all the time, a guy (usually) lying in bed says " I'm fine, I don't none of you medicine, I just need to go home".
> 
> and pray tell, why were they admitted....cuz they were too sick to get well without the medical industrial model.
> 
> There's a river in Egypt, you seem to know it


Sorry to divert this great thread, and I certainly don't mean to dis a lot of very dedicated healthcare professionals. But the system is broke and it doesn't benefit anyone to pretend it isn't. Now let's get back to good places to live and ride!


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

Health care is another thing that is likely to keep us in the Bay Area. My wife has asthma and the allergy clinic here has done a much better job of controlling it than any other doctors she has tried. We live in the Santa Cruz mountains where we get the air before it gets all polluted, nice riding, can still get to doctors or hospital in 20 minutes.


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## Can2pir (Nov 27, 2016)

Into my first winter as a RETIREE! I'm going nuts here in Northern Ontario. Lots of buddies have gone the Fat tire route and enjoy it but it just isn't for me. 

My wife isn't retiring for 5 years, so moving or wintering south is out. I've got to Florida (after Pisgah stop) twice this winter (October and February) but these barely scratch the itch. Actually I've 'put up' with winter for many years, snowshoeing and xc skiing but I'd rather be putting on sun block and riding dusty trails. So Florida isn't what I mean. 

I THINK I'd like to try a month or so in the south west and fly my wife out for a holiday week or so. Southern UTAH sounds the best? I'm thinking Airbnb but I'm open to suggestions. She doesn't ride but will walk and easy hike. 

We did a road trip a few years ago in the summer, (very early morning rides!) from Golden to Moab. I really like the desert riding. So for winter getaways it sounds like Sedona, maybe Phoenix. Need to get good riding and an airport to fly the hunny in and out of. 

Suggestions? 
These retirement conundrums are perplexing!!


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^Maybe you just need a Sprinter van to road trip in the SW, the wife can fly back while you stay in the sun. The Sedona area is a great choice. SE Utah is fabulous, as is SW Colorado, NE Arizona, and NW New Mexico, where I am retired. Lots of variety. We feel lucky to xc ski for a month or two. A 2-3 hour drive gets you anything you want.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Can2pir said:


> Into my first winter as a RETIREE! I'm going nuts here in Northern Ontario. Lots of buddies have gone the Fat tire route and enjoy it but it just isn't for me.
> 
> My wife isn't retiring for 5 years, so moving or wintering south is out. I've got to Florida (after Pisgah stop) twice this winter (October and February) but these barely scratch the itch. Actually I've 'put up' with winter for many years, snowshoeing and xc skiing but I'd rather be putting on sun block and riding dusty trails. So Florida isn't what I mean.
> 
> ...


Snow biking is fun, but it's not the same ad mountain bik ing. I feel your pain, we haven't see dirt since mid November. We started thawing out last week; saw some grass even, but it's snowing again 

We're moving from central Washington state to Nevada, gotta get closer to the sun belt.

Id say a couple weeks in southern Utah, March to April, lots of choices dependent on weather. You really can't beat the riding around St George/Hurricane/Cedar City.

Grand Junction and Mosb are also good, though more popular.

I'll second the van idea, I have a Promaster 118, platform bed, nothing fancy, works fine for dry camping, 26 mpg, front wheel drive, got in and out of Gooseberry no problems.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

St George definitely has some easy type hikes and the variety of riding is top notch. It definitely gets hot in the summer and if you ask me, it's biggest downfall is that while traffic isn't horrendous yet, there are too many people for it's current infrastructure. Your wife can fly out of Vegas about 2.5 hours away. 

I don't have to tell you how hot PHX gets in the Summer and it would be a major downfall but those that live there seem to put up with it fine. What I couldn't deal with on a daily basis is the traffic. We go there each Spring and put up with it but it's ugly. There is a huge amount of areas to ride but once again, many of them are spread out all over the valley and it takes forever to get to a "local" area at times. While I think South Mountain has the best riding in PHX, I'd definitely prefer to live up north towards Scottsdale due to all the riding up that way.


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## Can2pir (Nov 27, 2016)

The van idea has always intrigued me. Currently I camp and car camp out of a Kia Sportage. I can just fit my toys and sleep inside on road trips. I tent camp for longer periods in one place. My wife won't. We did camp cabins through Colorado and Utah in the summer which was an excellent inexpensive but acceptable choice so the idea of a month or so camping with a week or so high browing it within four walls is a good idea. I guess I can scout the areas. I'm really excited about the St. George area. We in the north have fueled our riding addiction by reading and researching some great areas. I've been happy to check off a few but there are sooooooo many that are on the list! 

Our summers bring excellent riding weather and my area is blessed with some excellent trails- some flow- some technical, through hardwood and pine forests. We're missing a lot of elevation. Pisgah comes to mind as similar trails but with the elevation. 

Ever since the bug hit in the late 80's though the southwest desert riding has been a draw. Can't wait! Won't be until next winter though. East coast (Newfoundland, Maine, Vermont) is getting the travel $$$ this year.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Been to Tucson a few times for riding and love it there. Plus the people are great. It does seem a common complaint for AZ that the riding is all spread out. 

It doesn't get too bad in the winter in SW Utah either. Not any worse then here in Seattle and definitely not as cold as Wenatchee in the winter. I have heard from AZ people that if you can live through your first summer you will be fine with the heat.


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## prkoski (Jun 6, 2006)

*San Miguel Basin communities*



honkinunit said:


> Norwood or ???


Our local trail group is known as the West End Trails Alliance or WETA. The area In Westen Colorado is huge from Norwood all the way to Gateway and south into the Paradox Valley and Slickrock. I live in Nucla and the riding opportunities couldn't be better. The local amenities however leave something to be desired. Just depends what you want in those "Golden Years". I'm 66 and my riding buddy from Gateway is 62 and we were out riding our MB this last weekend in February. Just doesn't get better for us old guys. Check out our new website: West End Trails Alliance. We'll be posting more of the great riding opportunities on this site plus there is a paper map coming out in March.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I've never ridden in Moab, but it's pretty cold there in the Winter. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Scott In MD said:


> I've never ridden in Moab, but it's pretty cold there in the Winter.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Clearly you are from the east coast and are just looking at temperatures. Moab is too cold to ride maybe 20 days out of the year, usually in stretches of 2-4 days at a time. Those days, you just go up to the La Sals and ski or snowshoe. It rarely snows in Moab itself. Moab sits in a valley with super low humidity, the altitude is 4000ft+, and the sun shines most days. You can ride in shorts when it is 40 degrees there. A sunny 55 degree day is the perfect riding day in Moab. There is usually a huge difference between the low and high temperatures, but it warms rapidy most mornings. If you look at the temps for the next five days, highs in upper 50's to mid 60s, lows in the lower to mid-30's, sunny, winds 5 MPH, it doesn't get any better than that.

In summer it can be brutally hot in the afternoon, but because Moab sits at the base of the high mountains, the hot air blows out overnight, and it is in the 50's most mornings in summer. If you get out and get your ride in before noon, you can ride right through July and August with no problem.

There are a lot of reasons not to retire in Moab at this point, but weather is the *best* reason to retire there. I lived on the west coast of Florida when I was younger, and I skipped more riding days there in winter because it was too cold than I would in Moab. I've ridden in Moab probably every calendar week of the year over the last 30 years, and the weather is fantastic. Give me a sunny 35 degree day in Moab over a cloudy 60 degree day in the east with 90% humidity, any time.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

^ wut he said, tis the truth, hot and dry, you won't want for riding, summer is hot, hot, hot, need to ride early, late, or at night.

Having lived in East TN and central VA for twenty years, I too would take a 35f day in Moab over a 50f in the East. Dry cold is always better than wet cold.

I live in the Central Cascades of WA, today I rode snow, temps around 40f, 2500' elevatio, short sleeves, thin gloves, got kinda hot, coulda wore shorts.

Humidity sucks.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

I live out here. We have a place near PHX at 2000 feet and a place in Prescott at 6000 feet. I've never ridden Moab, but I've ridden Sedona at 4000 feet for fifteen years so I feel like my statement "Moab is cold in the winter" is pretty legit. It's 66 degrees there today, right now.... but the forecast for Monday is 28 low 44 high. That's pretty cold in my book. YMMV. Go troll your momma. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I live out here!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I live out here!


What a freakin' coincidence -- I live out here, too! Your momma need trollin'?
=D


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Scott In MD said:


> I live out here. We have a place near PHX at 2000 feet and a place in Prescott at 6000 feet. I've never ridden Moab, but I've ridden Sedona at 4000 feet for fifteen years so I feel like my statement "Moab is cold in the winter" is pretty legit. It's 66 degrees there today, right now.... but the forecast for Monday is 28 low 44 high. That's pretty cold in my book. YMMV. Go troll your momma.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Moab is a whole 10 degrees colder than Sedona for all of three months out of the year, but during those months it only gets about a third of the moisture of Sedona. Moab is *much* drier than Sedona overall. It isn't all about temperature.

For Monday I see Sedona at 58 and 47, but wait, there is a chance of rain. Weather.com has Moab Monday at 49 and 28, and dry. Right now. Go look. The humidity over the next ten days is about 10% higher for Sedona then Moab. 49 and sunny in Moab? Paradise.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

44 is cold? That's considered spring riding where I live, 28 at night is minimum needed to keep the snow/soil firm.

It was 40 in Wenatchee yesterday, I wore short sleeves and knickers while riding , got kinda sweaty too.

Heading out for a ride, up in the woods at elevation, so I'll wear pants, but light poly up top to keep from sweating.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> 44 is cold? That's considered spring riding where I live, 28 at night is minimum needed to keep the snow/soil firm.
> 
> It was 40 in Wenatchee yesterday, I wore short sleeves and knickers while riding , got kinda sweaty too.
> 
> Heading out for a ride, up in the woods at elevation, so I'll wear pants, but light poly up top to keep from sweating.


It's all relative to what you're accustomed to. For me, if it's not Between 60 and 90, I'm not riding.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

honkinunit said:


> Moab is a whole 10 degrees colder than Sedona for all of three months out of the year, but during those months it only gets about a third of the moisture of Sedona. Moab is *much* drier than Sedona overall. It isn't all about temperature.
> 
> For Monday I see Sedona at 58 and 47, but wait, there is a chance of rain. Weather.com has Moab Monday at 49 and 28, and dry. Right now. Go look. The humidity over the next ten days is about 10% higher for Sedona then Moab. 49 and sunny in Moab? Paradise.


OK. I give. Moab is the best place to retire and ride. Especially in Winter. Happy trails.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> 44 is cold? That's considered spring riding where I live, 28 at night is minimum needed to keep the snow/soil firm.
> 
> It was 40 in Wenatchee yesterday, I wore short sleeves and knickers while riding , got kinda sweaty too.
> 
> Heading out for a ride, up in the woods at elevation, so I'll wear pants, but light poly up top to keep from sweating.


Got to agree here in Seattle at 44 it's pretty balmy. Usually have to take off a layer or two, specially if I wear my wind breaker. Get's above 75 and I am dying. I work swing so get to ride in the morning during the summer when it's much cooler. If I worked 1st I know I wouldn't be riding in the afternoons.

So yeah, it is what you are used to.


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## binrat (May 25, 2005)

Hmm, just had the "where are we retiring" conversation last night with the missus. Since we are north of the border we are looking at SW Alberta, just west of Pincher Creek. The wife is a hardcore fly fisher and I do biking it's a good compromise.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

binrat said:


> ...The wife is a hardcore fly fisher and I do biking it's a good compromise.


If you're going to fly fish you better be a resident. Non Residents pay through the nose in most states down here.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

binrat said:


> Hmm, just had the "where are we retiring" conversation last night with the missus. Since we are north of the border we are looking at SW Alberta, just west of Pincher Creek. The wife is a hardcore fly fisher and I do biking it's a good compromise.


We had considered SW Alberta but the wind put us off and we went to Vancouver Island. It is the best choice we ever made. Not sure what the fly fishing scene is like but my village has fly fishing shop and 2 bike shops.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

We are looking to retire to either Lake Placid NY or somewhere in the UP or upper part of The Mitten in Michigan. 

We both want to be in a place where we are guaranteed winter. Frozen lakes to skate on, ( my fiance is a former professional figure skater and I am a "professional beer league" hockey player) lots of snow to ride and play in. Away from people. Beautiful "cool" weather and pine forests in the summer. Good places to ride all around. We want to wake up and smell the pine forest and see no people...or at least see only people we know. 

We have scoped a couple of cabin communities in both places. Michigan might win out b/c it is closer to the realtives, but Lake Placid/ The Adiarondaks is also like heaven on Earth. I have always said I want to die in the snow, or on a frozen lake under the Northern Lights.


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## mtnbkrdr98 (May 27, 2004)

This post was a couple of years old, have you retired yet?

I'm 53, from So. Cal and have lived in Boise for about 15 years. Very low humidity here, as you know, and pretty high on the "comfort index' because of that. The air quality gets bad, and goes into yellow or red alerts, during winter inversions and summer forest fires. You'll find lots of like-minded in terms of mountain bikers and road cyclists. There are many clubs and people to ride with, and, depending on where you would live, access to trail riding and road riding is Very good. By "like minded" I assume you mean your recreational interests correct? I don't want to get political here.

Not sure what your financial situation or budget is, but I "think" the cost to buy a home in Boise is WAY cheaper than anywhere you would want to live in Bend, and may be similar to places in AZ. I'm not sure about St. George - it's grown so much down there over the years it may be pretty expensive now? I can't tell you about property taxes, etc in Boise, because I'm a renter, and at this rate with what I'm currently making, and things, I will never have a chance to buy in this lifetime -

I know someone I've ridden with in Orange County, who moved from there to Atlanta, he seems to like it a lot. I've read there's some really good riding north of Atlanta - and that might be a cool place to live that I assume has less traffic and may be less expensive and better trails up closer to TN and the Carolinas.


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## mtnbkrdr98 (May 27, 2004)

Who wulda thunk it?
I've ridden that race course? Years ago, with friends from OC.
What's that course called again? Great trail!


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## mtnbkrdr98 (May 27, 2004)

It's not looking like I will be able to retire - in the best sense of the word - ahh well. But I don't want to write my future in a negative light. We'll see.


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## speedyd (Mar 10, 2004)

Havent bit the bullet yet.Did spend a week in Boise.Was a great time.Rode mountainbike 3 times and road bike 3 times.Some of the locals showed me the ropes.Met a bunch of great guys and attended their year end party.Lactic Acid Cycling.Rode out to dam and all through town.Very bike friendly.Didnt have retirement 55+ community but still had a great vibe.Visited atlanta last month.Weather was pretty good.Visited about 4 communities north of atlanta but did not ride any.Did not see a single car with a bike rack on it.Sorta ruled out georgia.Maybe a hasty decesion but just didnt see the bike vibe.Next stop is Phoenix in May for a week.I know its hot in the summer but but there is so much there.Plan is to stay at a robson property 3 nights and a trilogy for another 3.Trying to be methodical and patient.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mtnbkrdr98 said:


> It's not looking like I will be able to retire - in the best sense of the word - where you have enough money and can make your days (and nights), ideal - and where you want to be, or a good compromise. I'll have to keep working as long as I can, I guess, and hope to keep doing the things I enjoy doing, as long as I can. I'm poor. Not massively, welfare, completely hand to mouth poor, but yeah, I'm poor and have a negative net worth at this point. I'll probably end up renting a room from someone with "kitchen privileges". That's my personal hell. Right now, I have a state job with benefits, my own studio apt. ketllebell workout programs, nice road and mtn bikes, able to ride, I read a lot, internet, insurance, my health, etc.. BUT, am low paid and, again, have a negative net worth, and am 53, so...
> 
> If I move somewhere expensive, like Orange County, I can work and rent a room, or have super respectful, kind roommates around my age - and like minded, is the only way THAT would work. Look at all the rich retirees going riding with their really nice carbon bikes on back of their BMW SUV's LOL. Back to have a Starbucks before going home to work on their yards and lawns behind their gated communities by the ocean.


Dude...i hear ya. I am about 10 years past living in my van and on various peoples couches for a while...by choice in some ways... and plan to work until I physically can't. I have only recently been able to record a positive net worth. Granted, I live a minimalist lifestyle for the most part...I have a house, but no furniture beyond the bed, a kitchen table, and a couple of couches. Don't need a bunch of stuff I am not going to use.

I think I have always sot of planned on retiring into a minimalist/hermit-like existence because it is easier. I have been part of a retirement plan since I started working again, but that has only been for the past 10 years. I guess the only thing I am worried about is health care as I get older. I have always planned on retiring someplace that is NOT expensive to live, and would be happy in a small place space-wise. i would be happy with a place that I could ride, play my drums, and experience nature right outside my door.


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## mtnbkrdr98 (May 27, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I have always planned on retiring someplace that is NOT expensive to live, and would be happy in a small place space-wise. i would be happy with a place that I could ride, play my drums, and experience nature right outside my door.


Where do you live now? If you don't need to be by the ocean - Boise ain't bad. Rentals aren't that expensive and you can be very close to trails out your door. I think a lot of places in AZ can be good and also the South.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

speedyd said:


> Havent bit the bullet yet.Did spend a week in Boise.Was a great time.Rode mountainbike 3 times and road bike 3 times.Some of the locals showed me the ropes.Met a bunch of great guys and attended their year end party.Lactic Acid Cycling.Rode out to dam and all through town.Very bike friendly.Didnt have retirement 55+ community but still had a great vibe.Visited atlanta last month.Weather was pretty good.Visited about 4 communities north of atlanta but did not ride any.Did not see a single car with a bike rack on it.Sorta ruled out georgia.Maybe a hasty decesion but just didnt see the bike vibe.Next stop is Phoenix in May for a week.I know its hot in the summer but but there is so much there.Plan is to stay at a robson property 3 nights and a trilogy for another 3.Trying to be methodical and patient.


Yeah, you missed a lot of riding in Georgia and to to the north, east, south, and west, that area has some of the finest mountain biking in the country, whoops!

For folks looking to live cheap and ride a lot, East Tennessee is hard to beat. Granted, the humidity and bugs are tough, but the cost of living is low and riding choices abound. Knoxville has become a real riding mecca, as has Chattanooga.

I left therr after twenty years, just couldn't take the rain and humidity, but for those on a budget, there are few places that check so many boxes.

100k will getcha a nice little house in Oak Ridge, just minutes from Haw Ridge riding, and only twenty minutes to Knoxvegas and the Dirty South.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Georgia and TN may have plenty of great riding but when it gets hot down there, it gets stifling hot with that humidity. I could live there in the late Spring & Fall but that's it. 

I could deal with the PHX heat more effectively but would be riding at 5 am to beat the worst of the Summer heat. That being said, the amount of riding options the rest of the year are pretty awesome and you're sure to have your share of 55+ communities all over the valley.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Who the hell would want to live in a 55+ gated community? There are no kids to throw rocks at there. Seriously if you are a cyclist you are in way better shape than anyone your age. These gated housing projects are full of old people that will just bring you down. Think of the talk of the day..."So who died last night?"
I love my bike but I will need something else to keep me active, a nice shop maybe, or a part time job..."Welcome to Wal-Mart". 
I think we all want to travel and I have friends that are Condo owners and RV for months at a time. But I don't think I could downsize my home. And being trapped with my wife and dogs on a rainy day in a RV wouldn't be fun either.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

rlee said:


> Who the hell would want to live in a 55+ gated community? There are no kids to throw rocks at there. Seriously if you are a cyclist you are in way better shape than anyone your age. These gated housing projects are full of old people that will just bring you down. Think of the talk of the day..."So who died last night?"


You are absolutely correct sir! We live in normal neighbourhood and I wouldn't want to give that up. Lots of little kids and other mountain bikers on my street, with amazing trails a 3 minute ride away.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Not promoting 55+ gated communities, but you would be surprised at how active older folks are these days. My neighborhood, not gated or age restricted, is full of seniors and they are always out walking, biking, and heading to community pool or gym. Very little theft around here, too, since they are mostly retired and always around to keep an eye on things.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

speedyd said:


> Next stop is Phoenix in May for a week.


Unless you catch it on a wrong week Phoenix area is really nice in May. Still cool in the morning and and easy 102F in the afternoon. Be sure to catch a night ride; perhaps the Tuesday Night Ride with McDowell Mountain Cycles bike shop in Fountain Hills. Night riding is a thing now, in Phoenix area. Great camaraderie. Good stuff.










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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

mtnbkrdr98 said:


> Where do you live now? If you don't need to be by the ocean - Boise ain't bad. Rentals aren't that expensive and you can be very close to trails out your door. I think a lot of places in AZ can be good and also the South.


I live in Central Ohio. How are the winters in Boise? It is sort of far away, but I have been out to Glacier Natl and do like the terrain in the upper west.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

k2rider1964 said:


> Georgia and TN may have plenty of great riding but when it gets hot down there, it gets stifling hot with that humidity. I could live there in the late Spring & Fall but that's it.
> 
> I could deal with the PHX heat more effectively but would be riding at 5 am to beat the worst of the Summer heat. That being said, the amount of riding options the rest of the year are pretty awesome and you're sure to have your share of 55+ communities all over the valley.


The point of my post was for folks looking "to live cheap and ride a lot".

Phoenix is not cheap.

Gotta agree on 55+ community stuff being boring , to live my golden years without families and children, that's more a nightmare than a dream. One of the things I look for in a community is diversity and youth. My riding partners are generally twenty to thirty years my juniors.

Nope. Not going to the old people's place any sooner than necessary.


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

Nurse Ben said:


> The point of my post was for folks looking "to live cheap and ride a lot".
> 
> Phoenix is not cheap.
> 
> ...


Tucson is a much better ticket than Phoenix. Up in the Oro Valley area specifically for mountain biking. Check out the Ram's Field Pass neighborhood. Hiking trails in Pusch Ridge Wilderness and Catalina State Park right out your door. 5 minutes on Oracle Rd gets you into Catalina State Park to head up the 50 Year trail. A nice 15 minute road ride warm-up gets you to the newer Honeybee Canyon trails starting in Catalina. The new Ridgeline Loop is outstanding. The Rancho Vistoso area would also put you right by these trails, and there's a Sun City portion if you want the older folks amenities, but there's plenty of family areas too. Great big bike lanes, and you can do road rides out towards Oracle and get in 30+miles with just one or two stoplights the entire way.

There's a myriad number of reasons to choose Tucson over Phoenix. Especially for retirement. The only way I would choose Phoenix over Tucson, is if I could only find a job in Phoenix. Tucson may look only 5 deg cooler during the day, but it cools off far faster at night, especially Oro Valley on the edge of the desert and backed up to Mt. Lemmon. It's typically 10deg cooler at night, and you can actually enjoy sitting on your back porch on a summer evening in Tucson, whereas in Phoenix it typically doesn't drop below 100 till after midnight during the summer. There's a big difference for the morning rides too. Phoenix is barely comfortable even for 5am rides, as it typically starts at 85 and rises rapidly as soon as the sun rises. Tucson mornings are typically 75, sometimes it even feels a bit brisk on a dry July morning. If you're looking to do a longer ride in Tucson during the summer, you also have Mt. Lemmon, you can start early and even at 11am it will still only be about 75 at the summit. Some fun downhills off Mt. Lemmon as well, like Bugs Springs, Milagrosa, etc.

Great combination of mountain and road riding in Tucson, and with far less traffic. I would never choose Phoenix over Tucson unless it was for a job, or you had other reasons like being near the grandkids. When I go up to Phoenix now in the summer it just feels so oppressive. Tucson is the place you want to be for year round riding in Arizona.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Nurse Ben said:


> The point of my post was for folks looking "to live cheap and ride a lot".
> 
> Phoenix is not cheap.
> 
> ...


I agree, hang with the youngsters if you want to stay young. They supply the energy, you wisely direct it. Win/win.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Ditto on Tucson. Can't add much to where the trails are but having ridden with the SDMB those guys are monsters. Riding up a hiking trail to a water bar and POP they are over it and moving on. Pardon me, but I have got to walk. But they had a sweep guy there so I was never alone. And they acted like they didn't mind waiting for this old slow guy every once in a while.

So yeah the riding is great but for me, it is the people of Tucson that make it so worth while. And don't forget the Good Egg for breakfast. 

Can't wait to get back down there.


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## Sofakinold (Dec 17, 2005)

I retired in Farmville Va. More because there was a lack of singletrack. As a trailbuilder there was a need I could address. So I volunteered for the State Parks and started building Bike specific trails. Since my retirement I have put in 4 loops in 2 State Parks. Now I can go out my front door and ride either my back forty trails or jump on the High Bridge Trail Rails to Trails and do the SP loops.

More importantly there are a lot of riding options here. We have the High Bridge Trail, a dozen good Mt Bike trails within an hour and a half, from the Richmond area trails to Candler Mountain in Lynchburg and Walnut Creek towards Charlottesville. All of the Blue Ridge and 81 corridor destinations are easy day trips or good camping trips.

As I have aged and incurred infirmities I'm finding the Mt riding to a bit rough. So, I'm racking up alot of road miles. And this is a marvelous area for road riding. I can go out the door and ride loops from 10 to 80 miles on low traffic country roads with nice hard surfaces. And after 5 years I'm still finding beautiful country loops I've never been on. Jack and I did a 40 mile loop thru Powhatan and Cumberland Counties that we had never ridden just yesterday and have another one scheduled for today. Last week we did 2 loops in Appomattox County and the week before 2 in Buckingham County, all new to us. 

So, for me this has been good. Country living, year round riding, University town, full amenities, interesting historic area and Big City activities a short drive into Richmond or Charlottesville.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Sofakinold said:


> I retired in Farmville Va. More because there was a lack of singletrack. As a trailbuilder there was a need I could address. So I volunteered for the State Parks and started building Bike specific trails. Since my retirement I have put in 4 loops in 2 State Parks. Now I can go out my front door and ride either my back forty trails or jump on the High Bridge Trail Rails to Trails and do the SP loops.
> 
> More importantly there are a lot of riding options here. We have the High Bridge Trail, a dozen good Mt Bike trails within an hour and a half, from the Richmond area trails to Candler Mountain in Lynchburg and Walnut Creek towards Charlottesville. All of the Blue Ridge and 81 corridor destinations are easy day trips or good camping trips.
> 
> ...


Nice, way to give back and make it better for others!

This ^ is where I'm headed, trail building where it's needed, ride till I can't, then let others enjoy the fruits of my labors.

We just found a house, adjacent to BLM, tons of trail opportunities, just need someone to start building.

My wife is getting a side by side for chasing me around the hills of Carson City. I want a mini excavator


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

DLd said:


> ....There's a myriad number of reasons to choose Tucson over Phoenix. Especially for retirement. ...Great combination of mountain and road riding in Tucson, and with far less traffic. I would never choose Phoenix over Tucson unless it was for a job, or you had other reasons like being near the grandkids. When I go up to Phoenix now in the summer it just feels so oppressive. Tucson is the place you want to be for year round riding in Arizona.


Long time PHX guy ..... agree with all of this about PHX vs Tucson; Tucson at 2000 ft elevation is definitely cooler than PHX at 1200 ft. Except I like the diversity; need the airport and job opportunity in PHX more. Also the closer access to Sedona and Prescott. There is just a lot more of everything in PHX. Traffic. Trails. Pros and cons. My compromise is being high up in the hills at 1800feet elevation NE of PHX in Fountain Hills.

But from Tucson you are also very close to the beautiful high desert and forest ravines around Sonoita, Patagonia and the Picketpost section of the 650mile AZ Trail. Mount Lemmon and the Catalina State Park are both awesome. Tucson has a lot going for it.

Also, just thinking out loud .....from Tucson is quick shot down to Nogales, Mexico. A great city on its way back from a difficult twenty years .... and where Viagra is four bucks a pop. Not that any of us need it.

Here's from last week's ride in Scottsdale (northeast PHX) Brown's Ranch










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## OldGringo (Oct 2, 2015)

Scott In MD said:


> Here's from last week's ride in Scottsdale (northeast PHX) Brown's Ranch


Love Brown's Ranch! You can ride for an hour or all day from the trailhead without ever crossing the same trail more than once. And the facilities at the trailhead are top notch.


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Scott In MD said:


> Long time PHX guy ..... agree with all of this about PHX vs Tucson; Tucson at 2000 ft elevation is definitely cooler than PHX at 1200 ft. Except I like the diversity; need the real airport and job opportunities (for now) in PHX. Also the closer access to Sedona and Prescott. There is just a lot more of everything in PHX. Traffic. Trails. Pros and cons. My compromise is being high up in the hills at 1800feet elevation NE of PHX in Fountain Hills.
> 
> But from Tucson you are also very close to the beautiful high desert and forest ravines around Sonoita, Patagonia and the Picketpost section of the 650mile AZ Trail. Mount Lemmon and the Catalina State Park are both awesome. Tucson has a lot going for it.
> 
> ...


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I have heard great things about NE Phoenix. Lots and lots of riding up there.


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## thecanoe (Jan 30, 2007)

I have the best of both worlds. Cape Cod in the summer. And there's amazing MTBing there. Scottsdale for a few months in winter. I can't get enough Brown's Ranch n


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

SlimL said:


> Ditto on Tucson.
> 
> Can't wait to get back down there.


We are just back from a week of camping in Oro Valley which is just north of Tucson. Having an Aunt who has lived in Tucson for 40 years (this year) and have been visiting since it was about 300,000 in the 80's I've seen it grow a lot. Tucson has changed a lot and we still love the area. The biggest shocker though is to see the growth of the Oro Valley area. You've got everything right there on the north side and really don't even need to venture into Tucson if you don't want, though the traffic was pretty bad on Oracle Rd. But Tucson Mtn Park, Sweetwater, the Catalina's are all super close. You could buy a house in Saddleback north of Oro Valley and ride across the street to the 50 Year Trail network.

Now I'm nowhere close to retirement but I can see myself owning a small house in the area to escape the Colorado winter (we live in Fort Collins). These pics were taken on 50 year trail and Romero Pools Trail in Catalina State Park. Summer would be tough for us full time, but from what I understand it is "more tolerable than Phoenix" according to many I talked with who chose Tucson over Phoenix to retire.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

2melow said:


> Summer would be tough for us full time, but from what I understand it is "more tolerable than Phoenix" according to many I talked with who chose Tucson over Phoenix to retire.


Does that mean hot as Hell when Phoenix is considerably hotter than Hell?


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## DLd (Feb 15, 2005)

andytiedye said:


> Does that mean hot as Hell when Phoenix is considerably hotter than Hell?


Nah, it means about 70-75 degs in the morning when you would start your rides. Just a little chilly till you get to the first hill. By the time you finish your ride it's about 90-95 deg, but with good planning, you're finishing on a downhill. It usually works out that way for most of the rides in Oro Valley, since you're starting in a valley.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

DLd said:


> Nah, it means about 70-75 degs in the morning when you would start your rides. Just a little chilly till you get to the first hill. By the time you finish your ride it's about 90-95 deg, but with good planning, you're finishing on a downhill. It usually works out that way for most of the rides in Oro Valley, since you're starting in a valley.


70-75 is a little chilly? Ha-ha...I *prefer* sunny in the high 50's myself. Anything over 80 and it's getting on the warm side for me.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

Me - Traverse City Michigan in about 10 years. Would like to go somewhere warmer in the winter though.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

Coming up on 4 years since I retired to Cumberland, BC, Vancouver Island (not to be confused with Vancouver), and we had one of the snowiest, wettest winters people remember. Still better than anywhere else in Canada.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Vancouver Island is awesome, still too dark, cold, and wet for year round living, but just about the best place to live if your Canadian.

We're leaving Wenatchee Washington on three weeks, moving to Carson City Nevada for more winter/summer light balance, cooler summers, warmer winters, more year round riding.

Not sure it's our final place, but I'm looking forward to more light and warmth next winter. As much as I love the PNW, the winters are tough unless you can snowbird.


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## mike_kelly (Jul 18, 2016)

Hayward Wisconsin. Quiet sports retirement area. 100's miles of single track, best road riding this side of Europe, groomed fat bike trails in the winter and low cost of living. Kayaking/Sailing in Lake Superior.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Vancouver Island is awesome, still too dark, cold, and wet for year round living, but just about the best place to live if your Canadian.
> 
> We're leaving Wenatchee Washington on three weeks, moving to Carson City Nevada for more winter/summer light balance, cooler summers, warmer winters, more year round riding.
> 
> Not sure it's our final place, but I'm looking forward to more light and warmth next winter. As much as I love the PNW, the winters are tough unless you can snowbird.


I wouldn't have guessed Carson City would be warmer than Wenatchee in the winter. More daylight and dryer is nice either way.

We're really enjoying our "retirement home" in Hurricane. It may be 5-10 years before we can actually retire there but we go as often as we can from Sept to May.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

KRob said:


> I wouldn't have guessed Carson City would be warmer than Wenatchee in the winter. More daylight and dryer is nice either way.
> 
> We're really enjoying our "retirement home" in Hurricane. It may be 5-10 years before we can actually retire there but we go as often as we can from Sept to May.












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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Very nice KRob...what part of Hurricane did you buy a place in? I tried to get my wife to buy a place there in 2011 after my 1st trip to the area. Could have bought 3BR/2BA places for $130K back then. As usual, she didn't listen. She doesn't ride though so she can't appreciate it. 

We're now 3 years out from building on our lot in Prescott. Moving there full time in 6 but I'll stick get to Hurricane 2-3 times a year.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

mike_kelly said:


> Hayward Wisconsin. Quiet sports retirement area. 100's miles of single track, best road riding this side of Europe, groomed fat bike trails in the winter and low cost of living. Kayaking/Sailing in Lake Superior.


You can't fool me, I grew up in the upper midwest.

Brrrrr......

Honestly, once you have experienced 10% humidity on a sunny 40 degree day in January, you realize that you don't have to live in an icebox.

Better fishing up there, I'll give it that. That includes ice fishing, of course.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I like Hurricane for access, but the town and community are practically nonexistent and quickly being eaten up by St George overflow.

I prefer Cedar City, it's still very much LDS centered, but the university growth and growth from people looking for retirement that's not in St George will help Cedar City grow a little more diverse.

Three weeks from today we drive south. I'm just happy that I won't have to bear any more of these PNW winters!


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## mactweek (Oct 3, 2011)

Good luck in Carson city Ben. I haven't done any riding there but I have enjoyed the Tahoe area. I hope it is everything you want .


Nurse Ben said:


> I like Hurricane for access, but the town and community are practically nonexistent and quickly being eaten up by St George overflow.
> 
> I prefer Cedar City, it's still very much LDS centered, but the university growth and growth from people looking for retirement that's not in St George will help Cedar City grow a little more diverse.
> 
> Three weeks from today we drive south. I'm just happy that I won't have to bear any more of these PNW winters!


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

k2rider1964 said:


> Very nice KRob...what part of Hurricane did you buy a place in? I tried to get my wife to buy a place there in 2011 after my 1st trip to the area. Could have bought 3BR/2BA places for $130K back then.


Far north. Right up against the Virgin River gorge. That's La Verkin and Hurricane Mesa you can see in the back ground. Terrific views (for now). We'll see what the people next door build. They've cleared the land and are ready to start building. Hope it's not a three-story monstrosity.

Yeah, even two years ago we would've spent quite a bit less for our 3 bdr 2 bath 1500 sq ft 2014 home, but we got a good price and a really low interest rate and like nurse ben said, it's only going to keep growing with housing prices going up. We still feel like we got in somewhat ahead of the boom. We love it.


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## Kofaram (Oct 20, 2014)

This June I will have lived in the Phoenix area for 50 years. Moved there in '67 when I was 7. Recently moved to Kingman to care for my parents. 
Phoenix is way way WAY too big for me now, but with few exceptions Kingman is a freak show of people who seemed to have moved here to die and have given up on life a LONG time ago. 
Just got back from St George and fell in love with it from the minute I hit the town limits. 
I loved it far more than the N Scottsdale area. 
(Sorry to the St George people. I hope your town doesn't get ruined like so many other beautiful places.)


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> I like Hurricane for access, but the town and community are practically nonexistent and quickly being eaten up by St George overflow.
> 
> I prefer Cedar City, it's still very much LDS centered, but the university growth and growth from people looking for retirement that's not in St George will help Cedar City grow a little more diverse.
> 
> Three weeks from today we drive south. I'm just happy that I won't have to bear any more of these PNW winters!


It was a wet snowy one this year that is for sure and for certain.

I hear that Carson City has a rapidly growing Singletrack mentality. It will be interesting to see what happens there.

Looking forward to really exploring that SW Utah area-all the way from St George up to Cedar City, Brian Head, Hurricane, Virgin, etc, etc, et al.

OTE in Hurricane sure comes across cool on the net. Are they really that way in real life??

I am looking forward


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## cbrossman (Mar 23, 2004)

SlimL said:


> OTE in Hurricane sure comes across cool on the net. Are they really that way in real life??


I think so. I've been there a few times when visiting the area, and they have always been knowledgeable and helpful. They have group rides out of the shop and were very inviting to the Mrs. and I, though we did not take them up on it.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

cbrossman said:


> I think so. I've been there a few times when visiting the area, and they have always been knowledgeable and helpful. They have group rides out of the shop and were very inviting to the Mrs. and I, though we did not take them up on it.


They are all very cool guys that work there. Always willing to chat, pass out trail advice or even ride with you. We always stop in to check out what's new and usually go out on the free, guided shop ride they do on Saturdays.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

k2rider1964 said:


> They are all very cool guys that work there. Always willing to chat, pass out trail advice or even ride with you. We always stop in to check out what's new and usually go out on the free, guided shop ride they do on Saturdays.


That is exactly what I wanted to hear. That whole area around Virgin-Hurricane-St George-Cedar City looks so interesting.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

SlimL said:


> That is exactly what I wanted to hear. That whole area around Virgin
> 
> I wouldn't put St George in the same cultural/social bucket as Hurricane or Cedar City. Granted Hurricane is a satelite burb to St George, but Cedar City is a completely seperate town and geographic area.
> 
> ...


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## Mckinley (Apr 22, 2017)

I'm no where near retirement but I live in the same area as Travis and its awesome for outdoor activities. Cumberland is a great little community for trails, food and beer. Half an hour north is a ski park and summer bike park. Also home to some of the best backpacking trails (beautiful mountains here). Another half hour north and your in the Snowden demo forest with tons of xc single track. Surrounded by mountains and ocean. The downside is the winters are dark and rainy, not very cold though. BC ferries are expensive!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Taxes are a huge consideration for us. 

The following are from the 10 worst states to retire in as the taxes will eat deeper into your retirement nest egg than all the others...

Utah - out because the taxes suck.
California - out because the taxes suck.
Montana - out because the taxes suck.
Oregon - out because the taxes suck.
Minnesota - out because the taxes suck.

On the other hand, the following are from the 10 most tax friendly states for retirement, and remain under consideration...

Tennessee
South Dakota
Nevada
Wyoming
Alaska
Florida


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

^In Florida the property taxes are high (and unpredictable) because they have no income tax. Not sure about those other states but the complete tax picture is important to know.


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> SlimL said:
> 
> 
> > That is exactly what I wanted to hear. That whole area around Virgin
> ...


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

bsieb said:


> ^In Florida the property taxes are high (and unpredictable) because they have no income tax. Not sure about those other states but the complete tax picture is important to know.


Yup. Kiplinger looks at the whole ball of wax for their 10 best, 10 worst list.

_Retirees have special concerns when evaluating state tax policies. For instance, the mortgage might be paid off, but how bad are the property taxes - and how generous are the property tax breaks for seniors? Are Social Security benefits taxed? What about your other forms of retirement income, including IRAs and pensions? Does the state impose its own estate tax, which might subtract from your legacy? The answers could determine which side of the state border you'll settle on in retirement._

Nice map and tool that allows you to compare 5 states at a time to get a full comparison:

State-by-State Guide to Taxes on Retirees

It will absolutely guide our retirement state choice when the time comes. Currently, we live in a state labeled as "mixed". However, there are states that don't have any tax on SS, no state income tax, low sales tax, property tax breaks for seniors, no tax on inheritance and estates, etc...which are all nice gems to have that are available if you choose wisely.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

BruceBrown said:


> Taxes are a huge consideration for us.
> 
> The following are from the 10 worst states to retire in as the taxes will eat deeper into your retirement nest egg than all the others...
> 
> ...


Tennessee: Potential but humidity is ugly and it's definitely getting more crowded. I have numerous co-workers that have moved there and complain about the heat and traffic
South Dakota: Out because it's South Dakota
Nevada: Definite options but the nicest places are pricey & snowy 5 months out of the year
Wyoming: If you got Jackson Hole money and are OK with snow and COLD 5 months out of the year, it's an awesome place
Alaska: More cold, more snow
Florida: Worst state I've ever been in, ugly humidity, most people on MTBR actually want to mountain bike and Florida is no MTB mecca


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

k2rider1964 said:


> Tennessee: Potential but humidity is ugly and it's definitely getting more crowded. I have numerous co-workers that have moved there and complain about the heat and traffic
> South Dakota: Out because it's South Dakota
> Nevada: Definite options but the nicest places are pricey & snowy 5 months out of the year
> Wyoming: If you got Jackson Hole money and are OK with snow and COLD 5 months out of the year, it's an awesome place
> ...


Wyoming (Laramie/Cheyenne) is geographically 7-8 hours or less to some of the best mountain bike riding in the USA. If you can deal with the winter/wind a few months out of the year. Cheyenne to Fort Collins in under an hour, Denver in 90 minutes, Cheyenne to Moab in 6 hours, Cheyenne to Fruita in 5 hours, Cheyenne to Black Hills in 4 hours, Cheyenne to Kurt Gowdy in 30 minutes, Cheyenne to Winter Park in 3 hours, Cheyenne to Crested Butte in 7 hours, Cheyenne to Steamboat in 3 hours, Cheyenne to Park City in 6 hours, Cheyenne to Jackson in 7 hours etc...

House (base camp) in Wyoming, house on wheels for the rest Winter.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

panchosdad said:


> Nurse Ben said:
> 
> 
> > You ever check out Santa Clara, which is just west of St. George? Nice looking little town, with a good MTB network right on the edge of town. A little further to Gooseberry etc.
> ...


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## High Desert (May 22, 2017)

Central Oregon is a nice area (Bend, Redmond, Sunriver and small communities). Moved here 7 years ago and disappointed I had not known about it 10 years earlier. You get the 4 seasons, winters are not bad, does get cold (minus sometimes), and occasional 100 degree days in summer, but not very often. Skiing here is going through the 4th of July this year - Mt Bachelor got 580" of snow this season. Fishing is great and the hunting is pretty good. Biggest problem out here now is affordable house, not enough housing, and jobs that provide a real living wage. No sales tax, property taxes are not bad, fuel cost is reasonable and food costs are reasonable. Just hard to find a house that you can afford that is not jammed on top of someone else if you live in new developments in Bend, or Redmond. I want to say that the median home cost is about $250K - nothing fancy and the sky is the list from there.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

GSJ1973 said:


> Wyoming (Laramie/Cheyenne) is geographically 7-8 hours or less to some of the best mountain bike riding in the USA. If you can deal with the winter/wind a few months out of the year. Cheyenne to Fort Collins in under an hour, Denver in 90 minutes, Cheyenne to Moab in 6 hours, Cheyenne to Fruita in 5 hours, Cheyenne to Black Hills in 4 hours, Cheyenne to Kurt Gowdy in 30 minutes, Cheyenne to Winter Park in 3 hours, Cheyenne to Crested Butte in 7 hours, Cheyenne to Steamboat in 3 hours, Cheyenne to Park City in 6 hours, Cheyenne to Jackson in 7 hours etc...
> 
> House (base camp) in Wyoming, house on wheels for the rest Winter.


this sounds inviting!! Is there good riding in and around Cheyene itself?


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

sXeXBMXer said:


> this sounds inviting!! Is there good riding in and around Cheyene itself?


The closest is Curt Gowdy State Park https://www.mtbproject.com/trail/3801032/curt-gowdy-state-park-imba-epic

My friends who live in Cheyenne went for the $$$ bonuses being paid out by the medical profession because *most* people don't want to deal with their Winters. When the wind gets blowing up there, it can be bone chilling in the Winter and a PITA the rest of the time.


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## Guest (May 24, 2017)

We visit the area every other year or so. I'm somewhat considering moving to Laramie as it's smaller and seems more bike friendly than Cheyenne (smaller and more bike accessible). My job has postings in Cheyenne and only requires 1 day a week in the office so it's workable. Still have to talk my wife into moving into the intermountain west.


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## Ntmboy (Nov 10, 2010)

Forster said:


> We visit the area every other year or so. I'm somewhat considering moving to Laramie as it's smaller and seems more bike friendly than Cheyenne (smaller and more bike accessible). My job has postings in Cheyenne and only requires 1 day a week in the office so it's workable. Still have to talk my wife into moving into the intermountain west.


I grew up in Laramie; it's a cool little college town with a thriving outdoor and bike culture. Easily the biggest downside, winters are long, cold and windy. I-80, east and west, closes frequently because of blowing, drifting snow, limited visibility and truck wrecks.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I like that area alot but Bend has essentially become a cross of SoCal "trendy" and Berkeley nonsense to me...no thank you. I'm not sure how long I would have lasted but I would have given Oregon a shot at retirement but my wife didn't want to deal with the rain. After this winter season up there, I might agree with her.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Ntmboy said:


> I grew up in Laramie; it's a cool little college town with a thriving outdoor and bike culture. Easily the biggest downside, winters are long, cold and windy. I-80, east and west, closes frequently because of blowing, drifting snow, limited visibility and truck wrecks.


Sounds like where I want to be. Long winters are an upside for me...and I would rather be in a smaller town. I am getting tired of large masses of people the older I get


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Sounds like where I want to be. Long winters are an upside for me...and I would rather be in a smaller town. I am getting tired of large masses of people the older I get


There are a lot of people retiring to Wyoming, for obvious reasons.

Here are a few shots of Memorial Day weekend. Nothing like pulling the rig and dropping it wherever you want, with no people around you. On Memorial weekend to boot!

From this campsite you can be in downtown Laramie in 20 minutes, downtown Cheyenne in 30 minutes and downtown Denver in 90 minutes.

But I stress it is windy and cold a lot of the year. July highs average just 80 degrees. Nowhere near as bad as many parts of Montana, Iowa, Dakota's, Minnesota, Wisconsin, etc. though who have it far worse in the winter. The sun shines in Wyoming most of the year. Cheyenne has better overall weather (less wind) and closer to Fort Collins/Denver if you need access to medical specialists. But Laramie is a true rough and tough cowboy town, I love it! And just 35 minutes to Snowy Range where lift tickets are just $45.00 for a full day (not a typo) and epic backcountry riding in the summer.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

GSJ1973 said:


> There are a lot of people retiring to Wyoming, for obvious reasons.
> 
> Here are a few shots of Memorial Day weekend. Nothing like pulling the rig and dropping it wherever you want, with no people around you. On Memorial weekend to boot!
> 
> ...


Wyoming - where people fall over when the wind quits blowing.

Seriously folks, you should definitely experience IN PERSON all four seasons before settling in southern or central WY. It ain't for sissies.

WY also is owned by the oil and gas industry just like Colorado. If they find oil or gas anywhere near you, they can and will set up a drilling rig a few hundred feet from your house, even if you own the surface rights. Read up on "split estate" and understand what it means.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

honkinunit said:


> Wyoming - where people fall over when the wind quits blowing.
> 
> Seriously folks, you should definitely experience IN PERSON all four seasons before settling in southern or central WY. It ain't for sissies.


Do they still have the horse trying to eject his rider on the license plate? (I assume the horse saw the bear on the California flag and spooked)



honkinunit said:


> WY also is owned by the oil and gas industry just like Colorado. If they find oil or gas anywhere near you, they can and will set up a drilling rig a few hundred feet from your house, even if you own the surface rights. Read up on "split estate" and understand what it means.


Do they get to foul your water without recourse too, or is that just the coal industry?


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

GSJ1973 said:


> There are a lot of people retiring to Wyoming, for obvious reasons.
> 
> Here are a few shots of Memorial Day weekend. Nothing like pulling the rig and dropping it wherever you want, with no people around you. On Memorial weekend to boot!
> 
> ...


I am looking for a place where there are no people, no humidity, no long periods of temps over 80, multiple feet of snow in the winter, and access to great outdoors spots for camping and biking. And those pics are definitely a selling point! All of my friends call me "Freeze Mizer" if that helps. I still have at least 15 years if my health allows me, but am definitely starting to scout for sure. I still feel like parts of Upper Michigan and the Lake Placid area in NY might be higher on the list, but WY is an addition that I never considered before jus tb/c I figured it was really hot in the summer.


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I am looking for a place where there are no people, no humidity, no long periods of temps over 80, multiple feet of snow in the winter, and access to great outdoors spots for camping and biking...


Lots of places in the west (lower humidity) where above certain elevations, say 7000 feet in Idaho (where I live) you'd get both feet of snow in winter and considerably cooler temps in summer. Likewise in Wyoming, Utah, and maybe even at lower elevations in Montana. 
If you are retired and don't need to work, you can live in lots of small communities where you will be welcomed, as will your support ($$$) for the community.
Not many people here yet, but they're coming.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I am looking for a place where there are no people, no humidity, no long periods of temps over 80, multiple feet of snow in the winter, and access to great outdoors spots for camping and biking. And those pics are definitely a selling point! All of my friends call me "Freeze Mizer" if that helps. I still have at least 15 years if my health allows me, but am definitely starting to scout for sure. I still feel like parts of Upper Michigan and the Lake Placid area in NY might be higher on the list, but WY is an addition that I never considered before jus tb/c I figured it was really hot in the summer.


Look into Star Valley Wyoming. Stunningly beautiful place about 50 miles south of Jackson Hole.

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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I have good friends in Gillette and they seem to survive the Wyoming winters just fine. My wife wouldn't like it but it is a wonderful state as far as I am concerned. Another caveat, they don't tolerate much BS.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

SlimL said:


> I have good friends in Gillette and they seem to survive the Wyoming winters just fine. My wife wouldn't like it but it is a wonderful state as far as I am concerned. Another caveat, they don't tolerate much BS.


Oh there's plenty of BS in Wyoming, we just try to pass it off as "folk wisdom"...

Wyoming has its pluses and minuses - I've lived in Laramie for 26 years but am old enough to have lived other places and have traveled so have things to compare to. Sure, the tax burden is low (a plus) but you get what you pay for, particularly since the state budget is busted due to a dependence on taxing coal production - and coal is dead and not even quitting the Paris deal will bring it back (so say even the coal companies). Services are being cut like crazy at all levels - state, county, municipal. So that's a minus. The rewrite of the health care law will lead to the closing of more hospitals in small communities. Another minus. But, hey - we have low taxes! If you can get past the wind, the weather is great if you like to use the snow for recreation. From my perspective there are really only a few communities that warrant serious consideration for retirement in this state. That's not to say there aren't some great small communities that you (or someone else other than me) might find pleasant enough, but if cycling, skiing, and culture (i.e. - art, performances, and social and educational opportunities often associated with post-secondary educational institutions) are important to you, there's a limited selection.


Laramie - good cycling, good Nordic, backcountry and alpine skiing (Snowy Range, Steamboat), University of Wyoming, one hour to Fort Collins, 2.5 hours to Denver or Boulder by car. The job has us here and we might well stay when we're retired.
Lander - good cycling, good Nordic and backcountry (long way to Alpine) skiing, at the foot of perhaps the best mountain range (Wind Rivers) in the lower 48 states, long way to anywhere, headquarters of NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School), viable arts scene.
Sheridan - excellent road cycling but a long way to mtb trails, good junior college and old money stimulate the arts scene, backcountry skiing in the Big Horns, but no Nordic grooming and no alpine skiing, Billings is a 2 hour drive.
Cody - good cycling, interesting history and downtown, eastern gateway to Yellowstone, good Nordic, backcountry and alpine skiing (Sleeping Giant and Red Lodge), Billings is 2 hours away.
Jackson - excellent cycling, awesome skiing of all types, gateway to the Tetons and Yellowstone, vibrant arts scene, expensive as hell, Salt Lake City is a 5-hour drive. If I was wealthy, I mean _*REALLY*_ wealthy, I might well pick this as the place to spend my golden years.

Honorable mention: Buffalo, Pinedale, Ten Sleep, Dubois. I don't know if these places even have a doctor (okay, Buffalo probably does) let alone a hospital, and they lack what I am looking for to keep myself entertained when not riding or skiing -- but they sure have great physical surroundings and are worth visiting. And they have low taxes!

I can't bring myself to recommend either Casper or Cheyenne, our two largest cities. They will have their defenders, but they lack the physical beauty, character, or opportunities that the other places I mentioned possess (again, IMO). But they do have low taxes!


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Ptor said:


> Oh there's plenty of BS in Wyoming, we just try to pass it off as "folk wisdom"...


And everyone I have met from there is building a long range rifle. Of course that is just the kind of people that I hang with when I am there.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mudflap said:


> Lots of places in the west (lower humidity) where above certain elevations, say 7000 feet in Idaho (where I live) you'd get both feet of snow in winter and considerably cooler temps in summer. Likewise in Wyoming, Utah, and maybe even at lower elevations in Montana.
> If you are retired and don't need to work, you can live in lots of small communities where you will be welcomed, as will your support ($$$) for the community.
> Not many people here yet, but they're coming.


The higher elevations in Nevada also fit the bill. Ely is at 6500' and gets four distinct seasons. Low humidity. Quite a bit of snow in the mountains during the winter. Average high temperatures in the summers are 80-90 with occasional short spurts into the low to mid nineties.... and very few people. If you want really low population check out Eureka or Austin.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

GSJ1973 said:


> Wyoming (Laramie/Cheyenne) is geographically 7-8 hours or less to some of the best mountain bike riding in the USA. If you can deal with the winter/wind a few months out of the year. Cheyenne to Fort Collins in under an hour, Denver in 90 minutes, Cheyenne to Moab in 6 hours, Cheyenne to Fruita in 5 hours, Cheyenne to Black Hills in 4 hours, Cheyenne to Kurt Gowdy in 30 minutes, Cheyenne to Winter Park in 3 hours, Cheyenne to Crested Butte in 7 hours, Cheyenne to Steamboat in 3 hours, Cheyenne to Park City in 6 hours, Cheyenne to Jackson in 7 hours etc...
> 
> House (base camp) in Wyoming, house on wheels for the rest Winter.


7-8 hours WTF? I work with a LOT of people that USED to live in Laramie. They have all moved on. So many better places to access biking, skiing, water, etc....

Okay, granted, the OP only mentioned biking, but still....


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

sXeXBMXer said:


> Sounds like where I want to be. Long winters are an upside for me...and I would rather be in a smaller town. I am getting tired of large masses of people the older I get


It's really windy Laramie, which makes the cold quite a bit colder. There's a very good reason it's a small town


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I am looking for a place where there are no people, no humidity, no long periods of temps over 80, multiple feet of snow in the winter, and access to great outdoors spots for camping and biking. And those pics are definitely a selling point! All of my friends call me "Freeze Mizer" if that helps. I still have at least 15 years if my health allows me, but am definitely starting to scout for sure. I still feel like parts of Upper Michigan and the Lake Placid area in NY might be higher on the list, but WY is an addition that I never considered before jus tb/c I figured it was really hot in the summer.


Helena Montana, stellar riding, doesn't get hot, does get cold.

We moved to Carson City, it does get hot, but the elevation cools it off every night.

So far , Carson City is better than I hoped for, a real gen in the rough, watch it start to sparkle in the next decade.


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## Big Jim Mac (Sep 29, 2005)

I am quasi-retired, which means I cashed in my retirement, rolled it into my 401K and went right back to work. I would have enough funds to last 15 years probably. I pay a lot of child support on a disabled daughter and that probably won't ever change. On my mind though, even at 55. Giving serious thought to NW Arkansas. You would not believe the trail network and the bike culture going on there right now. Beautiful place, winters aren't too bad and the economy is booming thanks to Walmart. And those trails! In the summer, well, Colorado is just one state away...


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

Bentonville and NW Arkansas. Hmmmmm. Wow. Good call. I'm an Arizona guy but I work a lot near Little Rock. Need to get up the Bentonville. Walmart has out a ton of money into the trails. I've heard same about the quality. And cost of living is cheap errrrrrrr affordable. Good call. 


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Big Jim Mac said:


> I am quasi-retired, which means I cashed in my retirement, rolled it into my 401K and went right back to work. I would have enough funds to last 15 years probably. I pay a lot of child support on a disabled daughter and that probably won't ever change. On my mind though, even at 55. Giving serious thought to NW Arkansas. You would not believe the trail network and the bike culture going on there right now. Beautiful place, winters aren't too bad and the economy is booming thanks to Walmart. And those trails! In the summer, well, Colorado is just one state away...


Ahhh, Walmart. And now all the people that lost their jobs due to outsourcing to China in large part thanks to Walmart creating that floodway, have to shop at Walmart to afford the cheap **** they buy to get through life since they now don't have a job. Then the cheap **** breaks and they spend double what they would have in the first place on something that used to hold up over time when it was made in the USA. Yet they still proclaim, "see what a great deal I got!!". Thanks Walmart! Sorry, but bringing up Walmart in a MTB thread just leaves a sour taste in my mouth. I ****ing hate Walmart and everything they stand for.

Now that's out of the way. My experience is that biking in AR is great, but you have to be prepared for heat, humidity, ticks, and lots of trail clearing in some places. If you like ledgy drops, roots, and up/down technical riding though it can be great based on my several years living there. I will say that winter was excellent for having some solitude, hardly anyone riding then (beware sticks in the spokes though). It's not the big technical climbs and descents of the west that I know and love, but certainly worth checking out. Full disclosure, I'm more familiar with the Ouachitas and central AR than the NW segment.

P.S. good on you for child support. I have a daughter with some health issues and got divorced when she was very young. Too many dads skip out and don't stay involved. that alone says something about your moral character.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Helena Montana, stellar riding, doesn't get hot, does get cold...


I guess when you used to live on the Eastside 90+ wouldn't be considered hot but over here on the Wet Side, that is roasting. Helena was in the 90s last week but only supposed to get up to 74 this week.

But yeah, Helena is bike crazy. Can't wait to go see it.


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## bouncy_rig (Aug 22, 2007)

BruceBrown said:


> Yup. Kiplinger looks at the whole ball of wax for their 10 best, 10 worst list.
> 
> _Retirees have special concerns when evaluating state tax policies. For instance, the mortgage might be paid off, but how bad are the property taxes - and how generous are the property tax breaks for seniors? Are Social Security benefits taxed? What about your other forms of retirement income, including IRAs and pensions? Does the state impose its own estate tax, which might subtract from your legacy? The answers could determine which side of the state border you'll settle on in retirement._
> 
> ...


The Kiplinger article is valuable. Thank for the link. I am thinking I got real lucky to get a mountain home in west Fort Collins 9 years ago. The biking is great the services are great the only issue is getting the time to ride still working so only weekends and it's getting real crowded at most of the spots.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Well. I retire in 76 days, 13 hours and 59 minutes. Been in Park City, Utah for 28 years. Will stay.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

MSU Alum said:


> Well. I retire in 76 days, 13 hours and 59 minutes. Been in Park City, Utah for 28 years. Will stay.


That's a good plan and if Park City was anything like it was 28 years ago, it would be even better. GART Brothers was great and Main Street used to be "Main Street USA" while now it's just a bunch or overpriced, trendy, Californianized shops and restaurants with the traffic to boot.

That being said, I wish my wife would have listened when I wanted to buy a townhouse or condo there 15 years ago. We could probably still pull off retirement there but I'm not as enamored with the new version of Park City.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

k2rider1964 said:


> That's a good plan and if Park City was anything like it was 28 years ago, it would be even better. GART Brothers was great and Main Street used to be "Main Street USA" while now it's just a bunch or overpriced, trendy, Californianized shops and restaurants with the traffic to boot.
> 
> That being said, I wish my wife would have listened when I wanted to buy a townhouse or condo there 15 years ago. We could probably still pull off retirement there but I'm not as enamored with the new version of Park City.


True. I went to college in Bozeman (MSU Alum) Montana in 1970. My wife and I were considering retiring there until about 10 years ago when we decided it had been ruined. I lived in San Diego when the road up to Rancho Bernardo (1979) was a two lane road that got sorta crowded and the groups out on surf boards were small, and friendly! I would never consider living in the Park City city limits. We sold our place in PC in '96 and moved to Jeremy Ranch. Also, if you must ride year round, it's a bad choice. I get in 80+ days of skiing a year, so no problem there.
But, the times are a-changin' and that's for sure!


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## dcitron (Nov 1, 2010)

k2rider1964 said:


> That's a good plan and if Park City was anything like it was 28 years ago, it would be even better. GART Brothers was great and Main Street used to be "Main Street USA" while now it's just a bunch or overpriced, trendy, Californianized shops and restaurants with the traffic to boot.
> 
> That being said, I wish my wife would have listened when I wanted to buy a townhouse or condo there 15 years ago. We could probably still pull off retirement there but I'm not as enamored with the new version of Park City.


Park City has certianly changed in 28 years ( some think for the better and some think for the worse), you can not do better for the trail system and weather combination. Doesnt hurt how easy it is to get to even though it has become more highbrow....It is still easy to live just outside of PC and then you can pick and choose what amenities you want to take advantage of


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> So far , Carson City is better than I hoped for, a real gen in the rough, watch it start to sparkle in the next decade.


A lot going on in Carson City. We had the guy from the Carson City visitors bureau visit our FTB Enduro race here in Ely this past weekend with a film crew. They are very interested in promoting CC as a mountain biking destination and creating more interest in the whole HWY 50 corridor. Ultimate goal being a three or four stop stage race Enduro like the Trans BC or Trans Alps. The CC Offroad is a huge start and all the new trails will only make it better. Now if the Tahoe trails would just melt off this summer you'd really be loving the area (may not happen this year for some of the higher stuff).


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

KRob said:


> A lot going on in Carson City. We had the guy from the Carson City visitors bureau visit our FTB Enduro race here in Ely this past weekend with a film crew. They are very interested in promoting CC as a mountain biking destination and creating more interest in the whole HWY 50 corridor. Ultimate goal being a three or four stop stage race Enduro like the Trans BC or Trans Alps. The CC Offroad is a huge start and all the new trails will only make it better. Now if the Tahoe trails would just melt off this summer you'd really be loving the area (may not happen this year for some of the higher stuff).


Yup, Carson City is going places, more restaurants opening down town, freeway is nearly done, new trail proposals are very promising.

CC Off Road is this weekend!


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## Scott In MD (Sep 28, 2008)

BumpityBump said:


> Now that's out of the way. My experience is that biking in AR is great, but you have to be prepared for heat, humidity, ticks, and lots of trail clearing in some places. If you like ledgy drops, roots, and up/down technical riding though it can be great based on my several years living there. I will say that winter was excellent for having some solitude, hardly anyone riding then (beware sticks in the spokes though). It's not the big technical climbs and descents of the west that I know and love, but certainly worth checking out. Full disclosure, I'm more familiar with the Ouachitas and central AR than the NW segment.


Are you familiar with the trails in and around Camden, Arkansas? My work brings me to East Camden for about a week a month and I'd like to learn about any trails, resources or great bike shops in the area.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Scott In MD said:


> Are you familiar with the trails in and around Camden, Arkansas? My work brings me to East Camden for about a week a month and I'd like to learn about any trails, resources or great bike shops in the area.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


The only thing I know of in that area is Fern Hollow at White Oak Lake State Park. I have not ridden that area, only worked on wetlands south of there so can't offer much advice. Sorry! You should pose your question on the Southeast/Midsouth regional forum. Not a lot of activity on that forum though. If you have some drive time to spare you could head further west to the Womble, great riding west of Lake Ouachita!


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## KirkC (Aug 21, 2010)

Scott In MD said:


> Are you familiar with the trails in and around Camden, Arkansas? My work brings me to East Camden for about a week a month and I'd like to learn about any trails, resources or great bike shops in the area.


I'm not familiar with trails in Camden but if you have time I see that Iron Mountain is a little over 1 hour away and that is around 25 miles of fast and flowy roller coaster trail and one of my favorite AR rides (USAC MTB Marathon Nationals event was held there last month). I really like riding in the Hot Springs area (Womble, Lovit, Ouachita Trail, Cedar Glades). It may be a realistic retirement place for me since my dream locations require $1 million dollars for a fixer upper house (Breckenridge, CO, SF CA (bay area)). Backwoods riding in AR is pretty darn fun!


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

I wrote:

Taxes are a huge consideration for us.

The following are from the 10 worst states to retire in as the taxes will eat deeper into your retirement nest egg than all the others...

Utah - out because the taxes suck.
California - out because the taxes suck.
Montana - out because the taxes suck.
Oregon - out because the taxes suck.
Minnesota - out because the taxes suck.

On the other hand, the following are from the 10 most tax friendly states for retirement, and remain under consideration...

Tennessee
South Dakota
Nevada
Wyoming
Alaska
Florida



k2rider1964 said:


> Tennessee: Potential but humidity is ugly and it's definitely getting more crowded. I have numerous co-workers that have moved there and complain about the heat and traffic
> 
> Wife and I love humidity. We've lived in NYC, San Francisco, Houston, Vienna Austria - so not afraid of crowds.
> 
> ...


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

I got an idea; don't live any where just full time and move around. Yeah I know, not for everybody but I am going to enjoy trying it.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

BruceBrown said:


> I wrote:
> 
> Taxes are a huge consideration for us.
> 
> ...


All of those "tax friendly" states except Nevada would be in the ''Hell, No" category for us.
Some things are more important than low taxes.

Seems to me if you will be making enough in retirement to SAVE over 17k in state & local taxes by living in a very low tax state, you are making enough to retire comfortably anywhere you want. I live in California and I don't pay anywhere near that for all state and local taxes combined. Those taxes are mostly deductable on the Federal tax return, further reducing their impact.

Are you basing this on the taxes you pay on your working income? Retirement income will be less, and presumably some of it will be tax-exempt.

Also surprised that after your earlier fitness-shaming posts, that you think you will not be mountain biking at 67. I expect to be.

I hear "bridge climbing" is a ''thing" in Florida.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to andytiedye again."

Gotta agree with what you had to say even though I live (and will probably retire) in one of those "Hell, NO" tax friendly states.



andytiedye said:


> All of those "tax friendly" states except Nevada would be in the ''Hell, No" category for us.
> Some things are more important than low taxes.
> 
> Seems to me if you will be making enough in retirement to SAVE over 17k in state & local taxes by living in a very low tax state, you are making enough to retire comfortably anywhere you want. I live in California and I don't pay anywhere near that for all state and local taxes combined. Those taxes are mostly deductable on the Federal tax return, further reducing their impact.
> ...


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Using a random website never truly reflects the cost of living of an area. For example, Colorado has low "taxes", but the license plates on my pickup were $800 (just the registration fees!) and it costs $13 in tolls to get to the airport unless you want to risk the Denver clusterfork. Insurance of all kinds, health, homeowner's and auto, are through the roof here. Some of those desirable retirement locales in Colorado, like Summit County, have the *highest* health insurance rates in the country. Auto and homeowner's are equally bad, and if you live in a fire "red zone", good luck even getting homeowner's insurance now. My homeowner's is over $4000 a year. It was $400 a year when I bought the house. Auto insurance is also crazy now, because of the huge increase in traffic accidents and the massive hail storms that seem to roll through every year now. A hail storm a couple of months ago caused Billion$ in damage. 

The bottom line with taxes? It all depends on how they are spent. Colorado has "low taxes", and low levels of service. Maybe it matters to you that the highways are crumbling, maybe it doesn't. Traffic sucks in many parts of the state, but there is zero money to expand, they can't even fix flood damaged state highways. The education system here is now being propped up by pot tax revenue that will be going away when the Keebler Elf gives the word to shut down the pot industry. The oil and gas industry owns the state government, and kills people without repercussion, while enjoying the lowest tax rates in the West. 

High taxes suck, but low taxes suck, too, unless you are one of those people with a mailing address in Rapid City that just live somewhere else.


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## TripleSteve (Jun 28, 2005)

I would add North GA back on the list. in Forsyth Co, 62+(homestead) property taxes on a $500k home are about $800/year. Tons of riding from 15 mins to 3 hours away. Best Heart Center in the country a few miles away too 
I'm in my "retirement" home. We'll just RV/Travel for August and January!


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

NoWake said:


> I'm in my "retirement" home. We'll just RV/Travel for August and January!


Bingo, glad to live where I want to retire too, and since 1968. Plan to start my ultimate retirement cabin on a lovely little acreage up in the woods soon, surrounded by large amounts of sparkly xc-ish singletrack and backcountry bikepacking routes. That plus some winter xc sking, are about all I really need on an everyday basis. I like our house in town too, only a leisurely half hour drive in, best of both worlds. On a parallel note, I have been a lifelong photographer and painter as well, and the quality of light and variety of landscape here in the mountain southwest is simply amazing and inspiring.

Hope y'all find a great place too!


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

....High taxes suck said:


> So Dakota is definitely one of the better states to have as a "home address" when you full time. I will be keeping my place in Randle, WA, in east Lewis County. But only spend the summer there, probably. No state income tax, low property tax out in the sticks. Bit of a ways to anything but that's OK. My backyard is Gifford Pinchot NF so I don't have to worry about neighbors. For me, there is way too much great riding all over to settle for staying in one place.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

honkinunit said:


> Using a random website never truly reflects the cost of living of an area. For example, Colorado has low "taxes", but the license plates on my pickup were $800 (just the registration fees!) and it costs $13 in tolls to get to the airport unless you want to risk the Denver clusterfork. Insurance of all kinds, health, homeowner's and auto, are through the roof here. Some of those desirable retirement locales in Colorado, like Summit County, have the *highest* health insurance rates in the country. Auto and homeowner's are equally bad, and if you live in a fire "red zone", good luck even getting homeowner's insurance now. My homeowner's is over $4000 a year. It was $400 a year when I bought the house. Auto insurance is also crazy now, because of the huge increase in traffic accidents and the massive hail storms that seem to roll through every year now. A hail storm a couple of months ago caused Billion$ in damage.
> 
> The bottom line with taxes? It all depends on how they are spent. Colorado has "low taxes", and low levels of service. Maybe it matters to you that the highways are crumbling, maybe it doesn't. Traffic sucks in many parts of the state, but there is zero money to expand, they can't even fix flood damaged state highways. The education system here is now being propped up by pot tax revenue that will be going away when the Keebler Elf gives the word to shut down the pot industry. The oil and gas industry owns the state government, and kills people without repercussion, while enjoying the lowest tax rates in the West.
> 
> High taxes suck, but low taxes suck, too, unless you are one of those people with a mailing address in Rapid City that just live somewhere else.


I agree with this. You can't base where you live or retire off of one metric. Taxes may suck in a certain state bit you need to look at other factors, such as cost of living, available amenities, medical care/costs, and most pertinent to us...proximity of world class mountain bike trails.

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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Silentfoe said:


> I agree with this. You can't base where you live or retire off of one metric. Taxes may suck in a certain state bit you need to look at other factors, such as cost of living, available amenities, medical care/costs, and most pertinent to us...proximity of world class mountain bike trails.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


....don't forget being within riding distance of a Chevron station where you can get a Jesse James bacon burger after you get off the mesa


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

k2rider1964 said:


> ....don't forget being within riding distance of a Chevron station where you can get a Jesse James bacon burger after you get off the mesa


My son cooks there now...employee discount! -drops mic

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I just got involved with the trail building group in Carson City, new trails going up will be world class, linking Carson to Lake Tahoe and beyond, lots of unexplored places, plenty of public land to get away from people.

The past two weekends I've been riding sections of the Tahoe Rim Trail (TRT), what an amazing trail, and it's rarely used. I can get to it from Carson or drive to any number of trail access points.

Downtown street concerts every weekend, Levitt Amp series, started off with Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. Smaller venues include the Fox and Comma Cafe. Hot August Nights is coming soon, the streets will be full of old metal cruising.

The bypass Freeway opens in two weeks, then the rest of the downtown​ strip gets a facelift, from four lanes to three, wide sidewalks, street furniture, trees, etc. In a couple years, Carson will have the best downtown in Nevada!

We just bought a lot, building the dream home next year, backs up to thousands of acres, BLM and Carson open space.

All this ^ plus stellar weather, not too hot, not too cold, year round riding, small town (65k), 20 minutes to the big city of Reno, and we have a Trader Joe's and a great hospital.


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## speedyd (Mar 10, 2004)

Still haven't bit the bullet but making progress.downsized from 5000 square foot house to rental of 1370 sq ft,house on market.visited Georgetown Texas and recently George Utah.gooseberry mesa was fun and snow canyon on a road ride.now have to get house sold and look at new places to visit. So far,Asheville nc,Atlanta,Boise,Tucson,Phoenix,Denton tx,eloy az.think might check out Nashville area. Not really the climate I want but the wife thinks worth a look.Yes dear what ever u say


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

speedyd said:


> Still haven't bit the bullet but making progress.downsized from 5000 square foot house to rental of 1370 sq ft,house on market.visited Georgetown Texas and recently George Utah.gooseberry mesa was fun and snow canyon on a road ride.now have to get house sold and look at new places to visit. So far,Asheville nc,Atlanta,Boise,Tucson,Phoenix,Denton tx,eloy az.think might check out Nashville area. Not really the climate I want but the wife thinks worth a look.Yes dear what ever u say


If you are considering the SE, I hear Knoxville and Chattanooga are much better than Nashville for outdoor activities. I know a couple of people who have moved to the Knoxville area and going there from Colorado was a huge win in the house department for them. Equivalent houses are basically half what they are on the Front Range. Low property taxes as well.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I lived nearly twenty years in Knoxvegas, been gone three years, great riding, hot and humid two seasons, cold and wet two seasons, mosquitos the size of hummingbirds, nice big town vibe, really up and coming.

Knoxville used to play second fiddle to Chattanooga, but I'd take Knoxville over any southern town other than Asheville. Knoxville is also an inexpensive place to live... wages reflect that lifestyle which makes it a great place to retire.

I can't tolerate the weather, otherwise we'd still be there.



honkinunit said:


> If you are considering the SE, I hear Knoxville and Chattanooga are much better than Nashville for outdoor activities. I know a couple of people who have moved to the Knoxville area and going there from Colorado was a huge win in the house department for them. Equivalent houses are basically half what they are on the Front Range. Low property taxes as well.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So I'm fairly familiar with most of the places you mentioned and, to be frank, your wife is all over the place. Non of those places have anything in common. It would behoove you and yours to come up with some parameters, otherwise you're spinning your wheels.

At the minimum, pick a place by size and amenities. Atlanta, Phoenix, and Asheville in the same sentence, uh huh.



speedyd said:


> Still haven't bit the bullet but making progress.downsized from 5000 square foot house to rental of 1370 sq ft,house on market.visited Georgetown Texas and recently George Utah.gooseberry mesa was fun and snow canyon on a road ride.now have to get house sold and look at new places to visit. So far,Asheville nc,Atlanta,Boise,Tucson,Phoenix,Denton tx,eloy az.think might check out Nashville area. Not really the climate I want but the wife thinks worth a look.Yes dear what ever u say


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Nurse Ben said:


> At the minimum, pick a place by size and amenities. Atlanta, Phoenix, and Asheville in the same sentence, uh huh.


I read his post and thought the same thing. I have a buddy that's looking to make a move (not retire) and he was asking me a lot of questions but my #1 piece of advice was to make a list of your priorities. My 1st priority was to be able to ride 300+ days a year if I so desired while my buddy needs to have employment that he can survive comfortably on. All of our needs our different.


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## SlimL (Aug 5, 2013)

... My 1st priority was to be able to ride 300+ days a year if I so desired while my buddy needs to have employment that he can survive comfortably on. All of our needs our different.[/QUOTE said:


> Roger that. Although I would say 350 days a year.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> I just got involved with the trail building group in Carson City, new trails going up will be world class, linking Carson to Lake Tahoe and beyond, lots of unexplored places, plenty of public land to get away from people.
> 
> The past two weekends I've been riding sections of the Tahoe Rim Trail (TRT), what an amazing trail, and it's rarely used. I can get to it from Carson or drive to any number of trail access points.
> 
> ...


I'm still a good 15+ years from retirement, but Carson City/Reno would be near the top of my list. Great riding/skiing/kayaking nearby with Tahoe. Access to city amenities/hospital networks, lower taxes/housing prices than Southern California.


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## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

Today! Been a tough last few months but I made it. Always wanted to retire before 60 and I made that by a few months. Going to stay where we are in Sisters Oregon but we are trying to buy into a place in Mexico so we can escape for a month or two in the winter.

Our income is going to take a hit, but we should be ok if we can stick to our budget. My advice to others who want to retire someday is, save early and save often.

Leaving for Moab on Sunday!


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Jing said:


> Today! Been a tough last few months but I made it. Always wanted to retire before 60 and I made that by a few months. Going to stay where we are in Sisters Oregon but we are trying to buy into a place in Mexico so we can escape for a month or two in the winter.
> 
> Our income is going to take a hit, but we should be ok if we can stick to our budget. My advice to others who want to retire someday is, save early and save often.
> 
> Leaving for Moab on Sunday!


Awesome; good for you! I turn 55 in June, and want to retire before 60, also...as soon as I can! Have saved reasonably well, but don't have money to burn. Just want to retire, live modestly, travel and ride my bikes!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You guys and this early retiring thing, man I do not envy you at all!

I really enjoy the work I do, it provides me with a purpose, it makes me think about others, it's my "head check". I work a lot with kids, the homeless, substance abuse, feels good to help others.

Now I'll admit that the idea of having more free time is appealing, but riding, traveling, and working on my house are not enough for this guy.

I will probably cut back gradually, maybe go to 3/4 time at sixty, half time at 70. I'm fortunate to have a skill set (psychiatry) that is valuable and portable, also with the advent of telemedicine I can work from home or from the road.

I got a buddy who retired at fifty, he's now fifty-six, he works on and off, starts a new house or a remodel every Spring; mostly he works to avoid getting bored.


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## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

My Wife is a Physc NP (from Carson no less), her last day is in two weeks. She says she may do some locums work at some point, well see...


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Jing said:


> Today! Been a tough last few months but I made it. Always wanted to retire before 60 and I made that by a few months. Going to stay where we are in Sisters Oregon but we are trying to buy into a place in Mexico so we can escape for a month or two in the winter.
> 
> Our income is going to take a hit, but we should be ok if we can stick to our budget. *My advice to others who want to retire someday is, save early and save often.*
> 
> Leaving for Moab on Sunday!


Congrats and good advice! :thumbsup:

I'm on track to retire by the end of the year while I am 50. I'm so excited!

No plans to leave Vancouver Island, but having so much more free time means a lot more road tripping both for biking, kite surfing/surfing and visiting friends.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> You guys and this early retiring thing, man I do not envy you at all!
> 
> I really enjoy the work I do, it provides me with a purpose, it makes me think about others, it's my "head check". I work a lot with kids, the homeless, substance abuse, feels good to help others.
> 
> Now I'll admit that the idea of having more free time is appealing, but riding, traveling, and working on my house are not enough for this guy.


That's fine. Not everyone has to enjoy or want to do the same thing.

Personally I have so many things I want to do while retired that I won't have time to do them all and will have to pick and choose. I do intend to volunteer and help others in a number of ways. I don't need to have a job to stay busy with enjoyable and engaging activities. I spent 33 years working solid. I'm good!

If you enjoy working go for it. No need to stop/change. :thumbsup:


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Retiring is a weird American thing (North American?), we do the puritan work ethic and bust our hump for decades, trying to balance life, work, family, fun, until we're burned out at 60yo, then ahhhh, the retirement (boredom??), but what about all those years of youth and vigor lost to the rat race?

So I did the opposite: I went to school on and off, I worked on and off, but I mostly played and raised a family, I didn't go crazy on the work front because I wanted to enjoy my youth.

I didn't have my first salaried job until I was 35 yo, fast forward twenty years, I now work full time doing something I like (psychiatry), my wife works part time doing something she likes (primary care provider), we make plenty of money and we still have lots of time to play.

Admittedly, like to spend money, I enjoy being able to eat out, travel, buy bikes, all without thinking about where the money will come from ... cuz I'm still making it. My four day a week work schedule allows me plenty of time for playing and keeping up the hobby farm 

I figure on working for as long as I can, no reason to retire, I'll just gradually cut back to 3/4 time, 1/2 time, do some locum work, that'll keep the money flowing well after I'm retirement age, so my nest egg will be bigger, I won't stress over money, and I get to balance giving back with taking.

I recommend this approach to all the young adults I know.

My son took my advice, him and his girlfriend just started their van life, driving away from SLC this morning with no plans other than to see the country.

This is life ^, not that retirement nonsense.

Hell, even if I hit the big lotto jackpot, I'd still work, though I might drive a Sprinter 4 x 4 

But yeah, different strokes for different folks, I'm not judging what others do, I'm just advocating for doing it differently.



vikb said:


> That's fine. Not everyone has to enjoy or want to do the same thing.
> 
> Personally I have so many things I want to do while retired that I won't have time to do them all and will have to pick and choose. I do intend to volunteer and help others in a number of ways. I don't need to have a job to stay busy with enjoyable and engaging activities. I spent 33 years working solid. I'm good!
> 
> If you enjoy working go for it. No need to stop/change. :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Retiring is a weird American thing (North American?), we do the puritan work ethic and bust our hump for decades, trying to balance life, work, family, fun, until we're burned out at 60yo, then ahhhh, the retirement (boredom??), but what about all those years of youth and vigor lost to the rat race?


I got into seasonal remote work so I could travel, have fun and get paid. All the monies and more fun than a typical 9 to 5 gig with loads of flexibility and limited "office" time.

I wouldn't recommend giving up the enjoyment of any part of your life to work, but I don't think that has to be the case.

And even a pleasant work setup eats up a lot of time relative to no work and once you have saved enough money there is no utility in making more $$ at the expense of your freedom.

I'd also say that retirement has nothing to do with boredom unless you are doing it wrong.

If I could go back and talk to my 20 year old self I would have had just as much fun as I did, but be more efficient with my spending and I would have been retired at 40. I can assure you I would not be bored for one minute of my life after I pulled the plug. :thumbsup:


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

vikb said:


> once you have saved enough money there is no utility in making more $$ at the expense of your freedom.


Such a HUGE point and all the rest of it. The lions share of the population spent the best years of their life doing **** that they don't want to do. Time they will never get back as time is the only thing you truly ever own in this life.

"The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation" 
Thoreau


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Buy a mountain, you can live up or down depending on season
U will create the communitie
roadies and us like to climb
well i do


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> Such a HUGE point and all the rest of it. The lions share of the population spent the best years of their life doing **** that they don't want to do. Time they will never get back as time is the only thing you truly ever own in this life.
> 
> "The mass of men live lives of quiet desperation"
> Thoreau


Totally agree with the original point by vikb, and this comment.

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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Ya, i am 61. At 33 i decided to focus on health and happiness. Quit the rat race. Work a little, lots of free time. Never regretted it.Not eating, eating out of garbage cans = all good.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Retirement is such a loaded word in our culture and especially when applied to folks younger than typical leads to some erroneous ideas about what it means. I think a better term is *"financial independence"*.

If you are financially independent you wake up in the morning and you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your time. You don't need to earn money to support a lifestyle that makes you happy. You might do something that makes you money, but there is no need to. You might do something that looks like work, but is unpaid as a volunteer. You might just do something that's just fun. Ultimately you are free to choose.


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## plasticweld (Jun 19, 2019)

At 60, reading these posts makes me appreciate how lucky I am. I have no desire to retire. As a business owner I have enough freedom to pretty much come and go as I please. I work long hours often, but it is by choice, not demand. There is something about having a say in your schedule that somehow takes away the grief of work and takes away the desire to look at the clock

I have spent most of my life doing the cool stuff you can only do when your young and in shape or just happen to be old and foolish I have involved in motorcycle road racing for the last 10 years, observed trials, up until last winter I did Spartan races and even done some ultra marathons, I have an obstacle course in my backyard, and I live where I want to die; if you ask the neighbors, the crazy old guy could kill himself at anytime playing on his jungle gym

The bike for me is a new adventure. I am recovering from a bad accident this winter, so running has been put on hold until fall. I had originally planned on running 60 miles on my 60th birthday, I rode 70 miles on the bike instead. The bike for me has been a form of physical therapy, the new rush is trying to get good at hills. I would love to do some down hill biking, but based on my last experience, some pretty cool crashes on the mountain, I should probably heal up first before trying that again. 

I have no idea what happens to old adrenaline junkies? I can't even begin to grasp ever slowing down. The business world is a rush, and a mental challenge. I can't imagine a time that I would ever want to take it easy. I guess moderation has never been something I practiced when I was young, I guess it is reasonable to assume I will be no better at it as I age. 


To those who have sought out retirement, I hope it is everything you wished it could be. It concept of a typical retirement would scare the crap out me.


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## wayold (Nov 25, 2017)

I never particularly liked work. I spent a lot of time in school on my hobbies (delaying my degree at least a year) and chose my first job for the proximity of mountains on which to indulge those hobbies. I paid a price for this and eventually lost that job in my late 30s, had to find another and pretend to be serious for a few years. 

During this "serious" decade or so I concentrated more on saving for retirement and let my hobbies slide for a while. I was on target for an early exit at 50. Then 2008 happened. Lost half my savings, went back to work full time, pretty much ditched the hobbies and finally recovered and quit work by 55.

And had a great time, biked a lot, flew, traveled and climbed mountains with my wife, etc. For 3-4 years until significant injuries and arthritis slowed both her and me way down.

My point in this is two-fold: 

First. While I'm really glad we had a few years of active play (and hope to have some more after recovery) I'm equally glad we did lots of this earlier in our lives too - even though both our careers suffered for it. You never know how much time you'll get.

Second. Though we travel around quite a bit, the place I moved for my job was chosen in part for access to play as well, so there was no immediate desire to move upon retirement. We may eventually do so for various other reasons (overcrowding, proximity to relatives, etc). But I'm really glad we chose a place to live as a place to LIVE, not simply for an easy commute to work.


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## dir-T (Jan 20, 2004)

plasticweld said:


> I have no idea what happens to old adrenaline junkies?


The ones I know retired and now they ski and mountain bike all day long while I'm at work. They do a lot of trail maintenance and trail ambassador type of stuff too.



plasticweld said:


> To those who have sought out retirement, I hope it is everything you wished it could be. It concept of a typical retirement would scare the crap out me.


See above. Not everybody has the same preconception that retirement = sitting around being bored.

I'm only 44 but have been thinking about retirement a bit more as time goes on. I don't particularly find existential satisfaction with my work but I do like the people I interact with and I have great benefits and a hugely flexible schedule (I can chose to work as little as 24 hrs/week). I think I've only worked full time for one entire year in the 17 years since starting my career. It suits me well but obviously it comes at a cost (like a self-imposed 20% pay cut some years).

So, I'm thinking more and more that I'm just going to work a little bit for a long time.


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

I just turned 55, and I want to retire as soon as I can. I work, and have worked since I got out of college, to support myself and my family, and position for the future. I don't derive some intrinsic value or satisfaction from work, and I don't want to "have" to work.

Retirement, to me, is not sitting around, it's traveling and riding and doing whatever the hell I want, on my terms. I won't be bored, and I definitely won't miss "work". But I don't want to waste (yes, waste) many more of my good years on "work", because I am very fit and capable now, and nothing is promised in the future.

Just need to make sure I can fund my "retirement", and that is the ONLY reason I still work.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Good stuff on this last page.
One thing my friends and I discuss sometimes is the idea that we're one of the last generations that can live this carefree lifestyle. With climate change, eroding freedoms, shrinking public and wild spaces, growing population, and an ever squeezing economy it's hard to picture 2 generations out relating to this discussion here. Hopefully I'm wrong but doesn't seem so.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

vikb said:


> Retirement is such a loaded word in our culture and especially when applied to folks younger than typical leads to some erroneous ideas about what it means. I think a better term is *"financial independence"*.
> 
> If you are financially independent you wake up in the morning and you have the freedom to do whatever you want with your time. You don't need to earn money to support a lifestyle that makes you happy. You might do something that makes you money, but there is no need to. You might do something that looks like work, but is unpaid as a volunteer. You might just do something that's just fun. Ultimately you are free to choose.


Great points. Far too many (at least in the US) focus on earning a lot so they can own a lot, instead of minimizing outflow in order to maximize experiences. I try to strike a balance with that, and am aiming at some sort of change by 55, whether it is retire, or simply doing something different, in a different locale.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

There is one common factor among every person I know who was able to "retire" early: no kids. 

I don't know a solitary person who had primary responsibility from ages 0 to 18 for one or more kids who was able to retire before age 60, with the exception of one guy who quit at 58, but only because his wife is ten years younger and has continued working a great job. I don't consider that to be retired, if you have a spouse still working, you are being kept afloat financially be the other person. You are no more financially retired than a housewife at home. 

I have a few coworkers who retired around age 60, but most work until they are 65 or older. The worst off are those who had kids, then divorced. Colorado absolutely screws the higher earner in a long term divorce. On top of child support, I know guys who have been sentenced to lifetime alimony. Imagine being in your 60's and not being able to retire because you have to pay alimony until you die. 

I have a co-worker who just had a heart attack at age 67. All of his future plans are now in jeopardy. It is a terrible thing. He has wanted out for years, but his wife never worked, and his kids have been a huge drain. Child rearing, college, then two of three boomeranged back with kids in tow. 

I'm on track to quit at 61. Kids are launched If we had not had kids we would have retired in our early 50's. I have a list of stuff to do that will take 20 years, at least.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

honkinunit said:


> There is one common factor among every person I know who was able to "retire" early: no kids.


Or no _entitled_ kids!


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## CKoch (Jun 17, 2019)

My last day of work was Halloween 2018, just a few months shy of my 60th birthday. I had always envisioned getting done at 55 but it was not in the cards. My other half retired a few months after I did. 

Our desire to retire was driven largely by the passing of several relatives and friends. Two brothers in law and several friends died within a year or two of 60 (actually one of my BILs died at 53). We wanted to be done with work while we are still young enough to enjoy life. The fact that my work situation was getting more and more untenable each day reinforced the decision. Gotta love corporate America. 

We were able to do it because we lived well beneath our means and saved at every opportunity. Like honkinunit mentioned, we have no kids. That said, my parents both retired at about age 50 after raising three of us. They were frugal beyond belief and pulled it off. Helped that Dad worked civil service for 30 years and got an offer he could not refuse. Both did odd jobs and what not post-retirement, but they spent a good amount of time in Florida. 

Our plans are to ski, sail, and recreate as much as we can. Will probably get an RV at some point so we can see America and all that. We are starting to get back into mountain biking largely as a way to keep the legs in shape for skiing during the off season. 

We are doing all this in Maine. Yeah I know, not the best state tax-wise, but our friends are all here, there is good skiing and biking, and the weather is wicked decent. It typically does not get super hot for long periods. And the sailing is phenomenal.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

plasticweld said:


> At 60, reading these posts makes me appreciate how lucky I am. I have no desire to retire. As a business owner I have enough freedom to pretty much come and go as I please. I work long hours often, but it is by choice, not demand. There is something about having a say in your schedule that somehow takes away the grief of work and takes away the desire to look at the clock
> 
> I have spent most of my life doing the cool stuff you can only do when your young and in shape or just happen to be old and foolish I have involved in motorcycle road racing for the last 10 years, observed trials, up until last winter I did Spartan races and even done some ultra marathons, I have an obstacle course in my backyard, and I live where I want to die; if you ask the neighbors, the crazy old guy could kill himself at anytime playing on his jungle gym
> 
> ...


You are fortunate that you enjoy what you do.By any chance is your username a hint to your business? 
Maybe Mr. McGuire was right afterall , eh?


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Hambone70 said:


> Or no _entitled_ kids!


Exactly. My parents had no entitled kids, neither did I. We couldn't afford such luxuries. The children all did well too because they were smart and capable.


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## CKoch (Jun 17, 2019)

bsieb said:


> Exactly. My parents had no entitled kids, neither did I. We couldn't afford such luxuries. The children all did well too because they were smart and capable.


Same here. We were all out of the house permanently by age 22 with no bommerangs. Two out of three of us did experience brief bouts of unemployment, but we had emergency funds that got us by. Once I was on my own, I could not imagine living with my parents again. Not that I didn't love my folks; I just loved my independence.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I lived alone in a rent free apartment in a different town from my parents when I was 15-17 with my mom supplying food and a few $$ to buy a bus pass, etc... So I could finish high school. Then I joined the Army and got a free university educational and started collecting a pay cheque. I guess most importantly I didn't borrow any money for school and my parents have not had to pay $1 towards supporting me after I was 17. Win win for both of us.

I've pretty much always had some income coming in since I was 17 and saved some money. I could have saved/invested a lot more, but it's all relative. I had friends who got PHDs that were still paying off student loans in the 40's! Ouch!

This all worked out well as my mom [divorced] never remarried and is now in her 90's and lives alone across the country. She doesn't have a ton of $$, but she was able to retire when she was 60 and has had a comfortable 30 years so far of post-work life. Now that things are starting to get more difficult the fact I can go and spend 3-4 weeks at a time staying with her helping out is super nice and although she still tries to save some $$ to leave my brother and I...we have been encouraging her to enjoy her money. Neither of us are short of cash. She seems like she may be living to a ripe old age so I think she'll need her money to fund home care and then a retirement home care.

I'm glad that she didn't have to support me any longer than necessary for me to get onto my own two feet. That wouldn't have done me any good nor her.

Thanks for sharing your stories. It's good to hear how people got here and what their post-work plans are. And for those that are going to keep working as long as you are happy that's great as well. There is no one perfect plan for everyone.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

There is tendency for people over 50 to have a blind spot about how things have changed economically for younger people today. Yes, you and I left home at 17 and supported ourselves, but it is *way* more difficult for a young person to make that work today, especially in places with very high housing costs, which is a bigger and bigger percentage of areas with every passing year. 

My first room in an apartment was $50 a month (no, I didn't leave a zero off) and my first apartment was $150/mo with all utilities paid. Minimum wage was $3.25 an hour at the time, but it was easy to find a job making $5, which meant I only had to work 30 hours to pay my rent. Hell, I got a job working at a car wash for $5 an hour. Inflation since then means prices are 3.4 times higher. Are there car washes paying $17.25 an hour now? None that I have seen. I got a summer job in a factory in 1979 paying $9 an hour, time and a half for overtime, and I got all the overtime I wanted. How many college kids are getting summer factory jobs now, at all, let alone ones paying $30/hour which would be the equivalent now? The opportunities just do not exist in most places. 

Minimum wage varies by state and locality now, here in Boulder it is $11 an hour, but the cheapest apartment in Boulder County will run you $1000, and it isn't easy for a random kid to find a random job making 50% over minimum like it was when I was a teenager. Everything is relatively more expensive as well. Transportation, college, food, everything. I lived on those terrible Pot Pies because they were cheap calories, they were 49 cents each but we would wait for a sale when they were 39 cents and cram 25 of them in the freezer. I saw the rough equivalent the other day at the grocery and they are $2.50! Holy crap. Even ramen is five times more expensive than when I was first leaving home. Wages are not five times higher. 

Yes, I think there are some entitled kids running around in some cases, but the fact is that people who grew up in the 60's through the 80's had it a LOT easier economically than the young people today. It isn't even close. Let's not even start with college costs, they are a travesty. My daughter's admittedly higher end college degree cost TWENTY times what mine and my wife's were. 

With all this said, my son left home at 18 and has been self supporting since. He is way outside the norm though, in fact, of all my friends and co-workers kids, he is the only one who accomplished that without going into the military. I am beyond proud of him for that.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

honkinunit said:


> There is tendency for people over 50 to have a blind spot about how things have changed economically for younger people today. Yes, you and I left home at 17 and supported ourselves, but it is *way* more difficult for a young person to make that work today, especially in places with very high housing costs, which is a bigger and bigger percentage of areas with every passing year.


The exact career path I took is available to a 17 year old today. Free education and a pay cheque at 17. You do need to sign up for 10 years of military service, but that just means a solid start to your career, life skills and decent savings if you want it.

I have not seen anything about today's kids that demonstrates why they can't launch beyond making some less than optimal life choices.

If you don't study and do well at school life can be hard. If you don't look for ways to defray educational costs life can be hard. If you choose an educational path that has poor stable income potential life can be hard. If you don't target stable companies that offer long term employment life can be hard.

The only part of this equation that isn't a choice is how intelligent you are and the family you were born into. For sure that can set you off on an easier or harder path in life, but that's just how it is. That was true of previous generations as well.

Things are different today, but for every challenge you can name for today's youth I can name one benefit they have that we didn't.


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## CKoch (Jun 17, 2019)

You make a good point about wages not keeping up with expenses, however I think many of today's young adults have a warped sense of entitlement. 

When I graduated during the early 1980s recession, jobs were few and far between and beggars could not be choosers. I was making about $175/week (this included regular OT) and paying about $195/month for my crap apartment. I still put about $20 per paycheck into savings. I drove an old car, shopped at thrift stores, bought store-brand food, hardly ever went out, and if I felt lucky if I had a six-pack of Bud (ick) in the fridge.

Today, kids are incentivized to buy brand new cars (how stupid is that?) and pay obscene amounts of money to attend private colleges and get a degree that gets them a job paying $30K a year. Something is seriously wrong with that. 

There are plenty of jobs in the trades that require little more than a community college degree (if that) and pay quite well. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC people, etc. are all in high demand and make decent coin. In a few years, the company from which I just retired will have a major shortage of field personnel unless more young people are encouraged to enter the field (which pays quite well BTW). 

The hospitality industry in my area is scrambling for summer help because HS and college kids are no longer expected to get summer jobs. They are all at soccer camp to become a professional athlete or some "enrichment" or "networking" activity so they can become a CEO of some evil corporation someday. It's nuts, I tell you!

But it is also nuts that the federal minimum wage has not changed in a decade and that aforementioned CEOs make salaries that are exponentially higher than the worker bees who make their companies successful. 

I'm just glad I was raised by depression-era parents who taught me that wealth is not built by making a huge salary, but by living beneath your means. 

I still shop at thrift stores, buy store brands, rarely go out, and live in a very small, humble house. The only thing that has really changed is the beer (generally local microbrews). It's the only way I can support my recreation endeavors.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

CKoch said:


> There are plenty of jobs in the trades that require little more than a community college degree (if that) and pay quite well. Electricians, plumbers, HVAC people, etc. are all in high demand and make decent coin.


Jobs that can never be outsourced to another country. Counts for a lot.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm not sure what all this angst is about kids and their impact on time and quality of retirement. Until 3 years ago, my wife and I never got our combined income out of the high 5 digits (and now only just), yet have sent one kid to an Ivy League school and the other to an out of state university, and both have/will graduate debt free (as are we). It was an obligation that we never saw as anything else but our duty -- our parents did the same for us (it was easier then for sure) and if we were going to have children we weren't going to send them off into the world indebted. And we're still on-track to retire at the standard age -- if we want to. I think it really comes down to being satisfied with less material things than is standard for the US -- not having a boat or RV, living in a modest house, being a one car household that drives it into the ground, not taking stupid-expensive vacations, etc. Certainly compared to many of my "economic peers", we might be perceived as having "less". I also think that having jobs that, for the most part, we enjoy doesn't require us to to medicate work pain with consumption. Kids model what their parent's do. We modeled on our depression era parents who, while constantly sure everything might fall apart at any moment (hence the "don't live beyond your means" adage), were extremely generous with both love and resources. This is one place where you can have your cake and eat it too.

We live in a place where we want to retire -- last night I spent two hours helping build a new single track that's 2 miles from my door! Probably the only thing that would get us to move is one of our children starting a family and the consequent pull of grandchildren and wanting to be of help. Like both my parents and my in-laws, we'll also never be a financial burden to our children. As long as we remain healthy, I will continue to feel like we have won at life -- even if we don't have as many toys as Madison Avenue tells us we should.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

vikb said:


> The exact career path I took is available to a 17 year old today. Free education and a pay cheque at 17. You do need to sign up for 10 years of military service, but that just means a solid start to your career, life skills and decent savings if you want it.
> 
> I have not seen anything about today's kids that demonstrates why they can't launch beyond making some less than optimal life choices.
> 
> ...


So you think every kid should spend the first ten years of their adult life in the military? How would we pay for that as a society?

I didn't say it was impossible for a kid to pay their own way today, my son has done it, but you are conveniently ignoring the facts. It *is* MUCH more difficult today economically. It isn't even close.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

CKoch said:


> You make a good point about wages not keeping up with expenses, however I think many of today's young adults have a warped sense of entitlement.
> 
> When I graduated during the early 1980s recession, jobs were few and far between and beggars could not be choosers. I was making about $175/week (this included regular OT) and paying about $195/month for my crap apartment. I still put about $20 per paycheck into savings. I drove an old car, shopped at thrift stores, bought store-brand food, hardly ever went out, and if I felt lucky if I had a six-pack of Bud (ick) in the fridge.
> 
> ...


I just ran the numbers through a calculator for Front Range Community College in Longmont, CO. Tuition, fees, books, estimated room and board, for ONE YEAR: "Estimated Net Price After Grants and Scholarships
$19,530.00" When you consider taxes and SS, that is more than full time someone has to work just to afford a generic community college. CC tuition was basically free when I was college age.

The electrical apprentice program I found says after the first year you can get $13-$15 an hour, while you pay them $500/mo for your classes. I knew a couple of guys who were taken into apprentice programs right out of high school, and they made a living wage right out of the chute, and the guys they worked for paid all of the fees.

Is it impossible for kid to leave home right out of HS and make their way now? Of course not, but I hear way to much "bootstrapping" BS from people who grew up in a time when it was way easier.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/cherry...mers-the-snowflakes-really-do-have-it-tougher


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I really like reading everyones insight as this whole topic has become more at the forefront of my mind in the past 5 years...

I am definitely in the camp who will work until I physically can't b/c I love what I do. 

BUT, I will definitely cut back on the elements of my job that I don't like - meetings; having to wake up early; wearing teacher clothes; State/Federal mandated beauraucratic BS etc - as I plan to make a "second career" out of the elements of the job that i do like.

So in essence, I am "half retiring"...or I am retiring the things that suck, and continuing on with those that don't.

I can do this because I do not have kids of my own. I "inherited" kids via my wife, but 2 are graduating form college soon, so that financial burden will be gone. The youngest will start college in a year, but that should be easier to deal with given his choice of school, and the possibility of scholarships...

I have started the path to downsizing and minimizing by selling my house in the past month. This has increased our monthly income by a billion percent technically...

We are going to stay in her condo until our youngest is out of HS next year, and then will start the process of searching for either a different condo, or a small piece of property with a cabin on a lake in Michigan...or we might even do the van life/traveling thing for a couple of years...right now, we have some time to think about it, and to save up some money to add to the nest egg that I got from the sale of the house.

For both of us, "success" has never meant spending. Right now, we don't own any of the "modern toys" that other people feel that they need to have to be "successful". We have a 12 year old 32"tv, basic cable and internet, and that's about it. No home theater. No smart house stuff. No boat. We each only have one credit card...mine is a $2000 limit and hers is 4 I think. I have my bikes and my drums and bass stuff, but the drums and bass stuff are what makes money for me, so that is not "hobby" stuff. Her hobby is ice skating and baking, so those are not too expense intensive. 

I also have always lived in the mindset that :"The best days of my life" are the current ones. I don't feel like I wasted my youth - though I would have done one or two things different with the knowledge that hindsight gives - and I don't feel like the best days are some magical chunk in the future either. 

I do feel that I want to do stuff that my body will still let me do physically since the deterioration of the body in an inevitable thing, and that is the only reason I am in a hurry to get some free time in the next 10 years to bike, skate and explore.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I might be wrong but maybe co-living is the future.
With every country deeply in debt add 2-3% to the cost of borrowing and all taxes will disappear in that huge hole we created the last 50 years.
There will be about no services, so take care of your parents and the best way is co-living. I was 55 6.5 years ago, my parents asked me if i would live with them, i said yes. My sister and brother each had 3 kids, some grand kids.
They sold their home, rented a 41/2 so i have my room.
Much easier to help, that generation was never into the habit of asking.
My dad died 22 months ago, my mom wishes to die soon.
Everybody in that retirement residence is thinking she is lucky.
I was alone, no kid, for me it was an easy decision.
The first 18 months we had a blast then accelerated aging more stress.
I am glad for that chance.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

33red said:


> 18 months we had a blast


I like that and am planning on the same. My folks live on the other side of the country and we haven't seen each other much in the last 12 years, it's an odd thing. I've never been career/responsibility oriented and have always spent big chunks of time with them over the years until moving to Oregon. When they really need me hopefully I'm in a place where I can easily be there for them.

Planning on quitting my job soon and spending another big chunk of time with them while we're all still mentally sound. One thing that really concerns me is people trying to take advantage of them. They are just entering the stage where it's obvious to me they are not as mentally sharp as they once we're. I've fielded several phone calls as of late were people are trying to do just that.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

WHALENARD said:


> I like that and am planning on the same. My folks live on the other side of the country and we haven't seen each other much in the last 12 years, it's an odd thing. I've never been career/responsibility oriented and have always spent big chunks of time with them over the years until moving to Oregon. When they really need me hopefully I'm in a place where I can easily be there for them.
> 
> Planning on quitting my job soon and spending another big chunk of time with them while we're all still mentally sound. One thing that really concerns me is people trying to take advantage of them. They are just entering the stage where it's obvious to me they are not as mentally sharp as they once we're. I've fielded several phone calls as of late were people are trying to do just that.


Ya, that is comon. Last 3 years my brother is in charge of $.
My dad had Alhzeimer his last 8 years.
My mom 7 years now.
After my brother called his dealer telling them not to do so
they called to renew his lease but i was on the phone.
When the doc called telling he was returning home
i said no. They become vulnerable and hopefully
they are protected.
Some are unlucky stuck in a sandwich helping the younger + the older generation, this is real hard.


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## EJC (Sep 23, 2009)

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program: "Retirement, Where when??"


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## tjkm (Jun 9, 2007)

I will turn 49 this fall, and should be able to retire when I am 57. I spent a few years ski-bumming in Colorado with some friends right out of college, and eventually found my way to the corporate world in my late 20's. I began saving for retirement in 2002 and am pleased with what I have saved so far. 

Living in AZ, I plan on staying here once I retire. I have grown to like the summer in PHX and the many months of cooler weather we have too. I can alpine ski in northern AZ, hike the Grand Canyon and ride seemingly endless trail systems all over the state. 

Once I retire from my current job, I envision some type of part time work mixed in with some volunteer time.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

My twenty year old self was skiing a hundred days a year on well worn gear, teaching handicap skiing, cutting firewood, and learning to be a carpenter. He would have taken one look at this clean cut geezer and told me to get lost!

But he would have appreciated the full suspension bikes and van life 



vikb said:


> I got into seasonal remote work so I could travel, have fun and get paid. All the monies and more fun than a typical 9 to 5 gig with loads of flexibility and limited "office" time.
> 
> I wouldn't recommend giving up the enjoyment of any part of your life to work, but I don't think that has to be the case.
> 
> ...


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Well in my 20 s i was skiing on 1 ski. No injury, i just broke 1 ski early morning and was not going to sit, i discovered 1 is enough and spent 5 seasons with my good one. That is why i am laughing, i learned it is not about workin for $$. It is about enjoying time riding often and being outside. Who cares if i buy used bikes. Freedom start with free time. At 33 i stopped being **normal** at 61 i never regretted it. Little work is plenty.


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## sturge (Feb 22, 2009)

I'm struggling a bit with this. At 59 I have 24 years making electricity with a Utility, have a good pension combined with savings for retirement. We've been in CT since mid '80s, raised 2 kids here and it's been good to us but...fiscally this state is a mess and we plan to retire elsewhere. It's too bad because this really is a nice place. There is so much great (uncrowded!) riding around here, I have a nice house on 2 wooded acres, I'm 20 minutes from the coast, 2.5hrs drive from Killington VT, there's a major airport 45 minutes away, etc. But taxes on my house are close to $10K/year, everything is expensive and it's getting worse every year so we will be moving on.

So where to? Wife and I both grew up in Maine but I've lived in CA, TX, FL for a bit...all have their plus/minus but I would not choose any of them. I really like New England changes in seasons and still love to ski but tax-wise it's hard to overlook places like the Carolinas. Wife is not a skier or biker so we kind of have differing 'wants'. Probably end up choosing a happy medium and will need to travel to get to ski. My son is a commercial pilot so free flights are in my future! I've got a couple years to figure it out.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

sturge said:


> I'm struggling a bit with this. At 59 I have 24 years making electricity with a Utility, have a good pension combined with savings for retirement. We've been in CT since mid '80s, raised 2 kids here and it's been good to us but...fiscally this state is a mess and we plan to retire elsewhere. It's too bad because this really is a nice place. There is so much great (uncrowded!) riding around here, I have a nice house on 2 wooded acres, I'm 20 minutes from the coast, 2.5hrs drive from Killington VT, there's a major airport 45 minutes away, etc. But taxes on my house are close to $10K/year, everything is expensive and it's getting worse every year so we will be moving on.
> 
> So where to? Wife and I both grew up in Maine but I've lived in CA, TX, FL for a bit...all have their plus/minus but I would not choose any of them. I really like New England changes in seasons and still love to ski but tax-wise it's hard to overlook places like the Carolinas. Wife is not a skier or biker so we kind of have differing 'wants'. Probably end up choosing a happy medium and will need to travel to get to ski. My son is a commercial pilot so free flights are in my future! I've got a couple years to figure it out.


I am in Quebec and it sounds like the Virginias or the Carolinas might be your next home. Of course there is no reason to waste $$ because we do not look for the stress of counting pennies but to enjoy time. Last 15 years my brother goes for 2-3 weeks in april to the blue ridge mountains to extend his road cycling season. Looking at it like your base it would not be far from ocean, in october 1-2 weeks a few hours up, etc... I would move there if i was not hooked on winter fat.


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## BCsaltchucker (Jan 16, 2014)

Current plan is to spend about 5 months.yr in Tucson where we have a very nice vacation home. It's a real cycling destination, with wide variety of MTB trails and road riding mecca too. The desert and mountains are perfect for my tastes, but the city itself is kind of an eyesore. We will continue to live 6-7 months yr here in Victoria BC. You see I am nicely avoiding too much heat and also avoiding temps below freezing.

However, I toy with the idea of doing our winters in New Zealand instead. It owuld be their summer so the days are long. The MTB is great and not too hot temps there either. But I understand buying a home there is not feasible, would just be renting, unlike in the USA.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Have you ridden out West?

Take a trip, fly into Reno, drive up and down the PNW, there are some really nice places in NV, OR, WA that might fit your needs. Living here doesn't have to be expensive, dry weather is a really nice change from riding in the wet, just need to find a place that has a little bit of everything, not to conservative, not too expensive.

If you are going to stay out East and don't mind the wet, Tennessee is pretty sweet, but yeah you'd be traveling for skiing. I lived outside Knoxville for fifteen years. Chattanooga is a nice place too. If I was going back, it'd be Roanoke VA area or Asheville NC area.

Is skiing really that big of a draw for your future?

When we moved from TN to WA, I thought my attraction skiing would remain huge, but after forty years of skiing I kinda got out of it once I lived fifteen minutes from the hill. Part of it was getting more into riding bikes, the other was knee injuries and the risk of hurting my legs in a way that would impair my function as I got older.

Just something to think about, coming from a ski bum 



sturge said:


> I'm struggling a bit with this. At 59 I have 24 years making electricity with a Utility, have a good pension combined with savings for retirement. We've been in CT since mid '80s, raised 2 kids here and it's been good to us but...fiscally this state is a mess and we plan to retire elsewhere. It's too bad because this really is a nice place. There is so much great (uncrowded!) riding around here, I have a nice house on 2 wooded acres, I'm 20 minutes from the coast, 2.5hrs drive from Killington VT, there's a major airport 45 minutes away, etc. But taxes on my house are close to $10K/year, everything is expensive and it's getting worse every year so we will be moving on.
> 
> So where to? Wife and I both grew up in Maine but I've lived in CA, TX, FL for a bit...all have their plus/minus but I would not choose any of them. I really like New England changes in seasons and still love to ski but tax-wise it's hard to overlook places like the Carolinas. Wife is not a skier or biker so we kind of have differing 'wants'. Probably end up choosing a happy medium and will need to travel to get to ski. My son is a commercial pilot so free flights are in my future! I've got a couple years to figure it out.


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## pitdaddy (Aug 6, 2013)

Nurse Ben said:


> Have you ridden out West?
> 
> Take a trip, fly into Reno, drive up and down the PNW, there are some really nice places in NV, OR, WA that might fit your needs. Living here doesn't have to be expensive, dry weather is a really nice change from riding in the wet, just need to find a place that has a little bit of everything, not to conservative, not too expensive.
> 
> ...


I have been wanting to ask you about the Reno area. Can one mountain bike year round? Can one even ride a bike year round? I don't like snow unless it melts within a day or two. Not afraid to ride when it's upper 20's to low 30's. I've done that here in the winter but was protected from the wind by trees.

Thought about Carson City, Minden, or Gardenerville. How long (time wise) does it take to drive to the coastal area around San Francisco?

Eastern Tennessee and western NC near the Smoky Mountains have been another consideration. I love the west but found out I also like grass and trees.

You may PM me here instead of replying to this thread.


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## bouncy_rig (Aug 22, 2007)

sturge said:


> I'm struggling a bit with this. At 59 I have 24 years making electricity with a Utility, have a good pension combined with savings for retirement. We've been in CT since mid '80s, raised 2 kids here and it's been good to us but...fiscally this state is a mess and we plan to retire elsewhere. It's too bad because this really is a nice place. There is so much great (uncrowded!) riding around here, I have a nice house on 2 wooded acres, I'm 20 minutes from the coast, 2.5hrs drive from Killington VT, there's a major airport 45 minutes away, etc. But taxes on my house are close to $10K/year, everything is expensive and it's getting worse every year so we will be moving on.
> 
> So where to? Wife and I both grew up in Maine but I've lived in CA, TX, FL for a bit...all have their plus/minus but I would not choose any of them. I really like New England changes in seasons and still love to ski but tax-wise it's hard to overlook places like the Carolinas. Wife is not a skier or biker so we kind of have differing 'wants'. Probably end up choosing a happy medium and will need to travel to get to ski. My son is a commercial pilot so free flights are in my future! I've got a couple years to figure it out.


Well the retirement plans are changing. Moved from Fort Collins to Colorado Springs to be closer to the kids and grandkids. The move makes us more financially sound and ready for retirement. The riding here is good not perfect but we are a short drive to some great areas. Family first because eventually they have to help you with the struggles of life.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

pitdaddy said:


> I have been wanting to ask you about the Reno area. Can one mountain bike year round? Can one even ride a bike year round? I don't like snow unless it melts within a day or two. Not afraid to ride when it's upper 20's to low 30's. I've done that here in the winter but was protected from the wind by trees.
> 
> Thought about Carson City, Minden, or Gardenerville. How long (time wise) does it take to drive to the coastal area around San Francisco?
> 
> ...


So year round anywhere is always a conundrum because weather, being what it is, too hot/too cold/too wet, etc... is a problem everywhere.

In TN it's often too hot in the summer to ride mid day, early morning is cold and wet, evening is hot and wet. Then it's winter and it's a swamp and mid winter it's frozen and wet. I think I missed riding more in TN for weather related issues than I did most anywhere else.

In Reno-Carson, there's about a month where the snow is an issue in the valley, but there's always somewhere to ride, so for example last year we had a huge snow year, the trail behind my house were snowed in, so drove thirty minutes to Fallon and rode a nice dry hill.

To be truthful, as much as like the east coast riding, the heat and humidity, year round wetness, it's just unbearable at times and it's rarely nice weather; nice meaning it won't be a swamp or a humidity sufferfest.

In Carson the riding is great, but sometimes you have to drive ... but at least you have that option. Once the spring thaw starts, the magic is around every corner, the TRT opens up in gradually, right now we have most of the TRT open with the high alpine stuff coming on line in the next month. We'll have the high alpine to enjoy until November-December, then the process gradually reverses. Typically, the snow month is February-March.

The ocean beach is three to four hours, the Lake Tahoe beach is twenties minutes 

Access north, south, east, west for riding is amazing: 
Tahoe Rim Trail, twenty minutes to an hour depending on section
Downieville is an hour
Northstar Freeride/Truckee is one hour
Mammoth is three hours
Oakridge and Bend is six hours
St George is eight hours
Moab is ten hours

The best stuff: new trail development, new riding events (Carson City is home of one of the Epic Races), and of course all the cool social stuff that we get from proximity to Tahoe and Reno.

I actually don't like cold, reformed backcountry skier, would prefer to never see snow except from a distance, and I like living here because the snow rarely lasts long. Even when the hills are snowy, in town is dry. Lowest temp last year was upper teens, then year before we never got below twenty degrees, and that's night time temps, day time temps are always above freezing. And it's sunny all the time.

So yeah, it doesn't suck here at all


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

Plan is in motion for me. Step 1 - sold the house in Iowa and moved to Missoula, Montana. This gets us into the same town as mother-in-law and within 2.5hrs from my parents (all are approaching their 80s). We are in the process of downsizing from 3800 to 1900 sq ft. House is in the process of being built, so living with MIL until finished. Step 2 will be re-creating friendships for both of us and to work on paying the house down/off. Still 7-10yrs from wanting to retire.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

pitdaddy said:


> I love the west but found out I also like grass and trees.


That's why we ended up in the Santa Cruz Mountains. Lots of green. Big trees. Moderate weather. 
Close to San Francisco and an easier drive than from points east or north. No bridges.
It is significantly less expensive than most places in the Bay Area.
Good riding year round, could be much better if enough of us moved here and we take over MidPen.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Santa Cruz is pretty, I lived there thirty plus years ago, but what you got there now is waaay to many people, though you'd only know if you'd been there back in the day.

I like grass and green, but usually that means rain/snow, poison ivy/oak, roots, mud, clay, yucky.

I lean more toward year round riding where it's dry, then I can travel to places that are wet and ride them when they're drier 

I'm curious about Preston, though it is Arizona, and it is near Phoenix, I'd be curious to check it out in the winter and summer, just to see if the elevation and forest make it a worthy place to live year round.

My high temp limit is 95deg F
My low temp limit is 32 deg F in the daytime, at night I can bundle up, just need the daytime thaw to keep my bones from hurting.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

I'm going to chime in again on an issue most people seem to be missing. Yes, it is cool to live in a forest somewhere in the west, but there is *nowhere* in the west that is safe from forest fires now, even the wettest parts of the NW. You may think you are OK with the risk, but your insurance company is not.

I've lived in the Front Range Colorado foothills for decades. When we moved here, fires were not even on anyone's radar. There hadn't been a catastrophic fire in Colorado in memory, and my homeowner's insurance was half of what it was for people in the suburbs. Fast forward to today, and there is a grand total of ONE insurance company willing to write policies in our area, and my low coverage, high deductible policy is $5500 a year. My agent said they have been put on notice that the company will probably pull out the next time there is a big fire anywhere in CO, if not before. When that happens, the **** will hit the fan. Without insurance, you are in default on your mortgage. Even if you are paid off, you will still have to find some kind of liability coverage just to insure you won't get sued into the poorhouse if someone trips on your front step. You will be unable to *ever* sell your house for anything close to what it is worth.

There are already parts of California that are uninsurable, but California has a state program of last resort that will cover you if no commercial insurance is available. Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico? Nope.

This is a huge issue unfolding in real time. Think *very* hard about the repercussions down the road as global warming and lack of forest management become even more severe influences.

https://www.uphelp.org/pubs/dropped-your-home-insurer-information-colorado-residents


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## waltaz (Oct 14, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'm curious about Preston, though it is Arizona, and it is near Phoenix, I'd be curious to check it out in the winter and summer, just to see if the elevation and forest make it a worthy place to live year round.
> 
> My high temp limit is 95deg F
> My low temp limit is 32 deg F in the daytime, at night I can bundle up, just need the daytime thaw to keep my bones from hurting.


I assume you mean Prescott, which is 1.5 hours north of Phoenix, at about 5-6,000 feet. Great town, and a huge MTB vibe, with a ton of trails. Epic Rides' original 3-day event, the Whiskey Off-Road, is held there towards the end of April.

Summers can be in the mid-90's, with big monsoon thunderstorms. Winters will get into the 20's, with some decent snow. But Denver kind of winter weather, where it can be cold and snowy one day, then 50 and sunny the next. Most trails are not rideable in the winter, and most locals will drive anywhere from 30 mins to an hour and a half down to the Phoenix area to ride.

Pretty cool town.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

honkinunit said:


> I'm going to chime in again on an issue most people seem to be missing. Yes, it is cool to live in a forest somewhere in the west, but there is *nowhere* in the west that is safe from forest fires now, even the wettest parts of the NW. You may think you are OK with the risk, but your insurance company is not.


Ours still is, at less than a third of what you are paying. Yay for the fog belt! We do worry about (and try to mitigate the risk of) fire more than we used to though.

Climate change is an existential crisis for all of us, wherever we live.
The forests have more fires. Some of them don't stay in the forest. Cities and towns are at risk too.
Coastal areas are having more flooding, due to rising sea levels and more severe storms.
Deserts are becoming hotter. The electrical grid strains under the load of all the air conditioning, and when it fails, people die.



honkinunit said:


> California has a state program of last resort that will cover you if no commercial insurance is available. Colorado, Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico? Nope.


Big plus for California for us forest dwellers!


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

honkinunit said:


> $5500 a year. You will be unable to *ever* sell your house for anything close to what it is worth.


You are in Boulder county, right? Basically Santa Monica, CA prices.  Love ya in Boulder County! Larimer County 40 miles north still has redneckville prices.

$3141 in 2018 just west of Fort Collins, and fire was less than 30 feet from burning it to the ground in 2012. My wife's best friend bought this house in 2014. You can still see the charred Ponderosa trees that survived it less that 50 feet from the house. Thanks to the helicopter dropping water.

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6501-Red-Cedar-Dr-Bellvue-CO-80512/13847996_zpid/?

"Heli Saves House from Fire"





FYI this house is less than 8 miles from downtown Fort Collins as the crow flies too.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The fire danger is growing, but it's not really a big deal in the high desert just as long as you don't live in the tree zone. High desert is pretty sweet, not to hot, not too cold, getting kinda pricey here in Carson-Reno, but better than CA.

Bummer about Preston, I thought the winter riding was good, but driving to ride all winter, that's not a good option for me cuz I can ride in town eleven months out of the year now.

Smoke is about the worst part of the fire season for us, maybe a few weeks ever summer it's yucky, but I can usually find a smoke free place to ride or choose a better time to ride when the smoke is lessened.

Edit: So about fire danger ... having grown up in California and lived through decades or drought, it's not that climate change has significantly worsened drought or increased the risk of fire, it's development that has led to challenges in controlling and preventing fires. But if you choose wisely, you don't have to put yourself at risk, ie dont live in the timber zone.

But of course, who doesn't want to live in the trees?

My option: Live in the high desert surrounded by sagebrush and plant a tree oasis around your house, once established, native trees do quite well providing shade, support for wildlife, and a little bit of the forest in your own yard.

Not a great pic, from last Fall, looking out my backyard toward Carson City and the Eastern Sierras, Heavenly Valley is just visible to left. My side and backyards are all BLM. The only trees are in my yard, then rest is wonderful low maintenance sagebrush


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## Iowagriz (Jan 14, 2008)

My original dream was to buy land near town and in the woods. Enough land to justify a John Deere Gator type vehicle for clearing and maintenance. However, reality of forest fires kept me away from purchasing. We ultimately bought a lot in a planned community in the valley. Justifying it as a better way to meet others and stay close enough to town to be able to enjoy the amenities. I'm a short 8-10 miles to MTB trails or under 15min drive. That is not the "ride from my doorstep" that I envisioned, but I feel better about the overall risk.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Nurse Ben said:


> The fire danger is growing, but it's not really a big deal in the high desert just as long as you don't live in the tree zone. High desert is pretty sweet, not to hot, not too cold, getting kinda pricey here in Carson-Reno, but better than CA.
> 
> Bummer about Preston, I thought the winter riding was good, but driving to ride all winter, that's not a good option for me cuz I can ride in town eleven months out of the year now.
> 
> ...


Preston, er... Prescott, has ample year-round riding, but the best trails are usually snowed in for part of the winter, 2-3 months typically. Two winters ago everything was rideable all winter. Black Canyon Trail is 45 minutes away, Sedona is an hour, and most of Phoenix is 1.5-2 -hours away.


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

veloborealis said:


> Preston, er... Prescott, has ample year-round riding, but the best trails are usually snowed in for part of the winter, 2-3 months typically. Two winters ago everything was rideable all winter. Black Canyon Trail is 45 minutes away, Sedona is an hour, and most of Phoenix is 1.5-2 -hours away.


Don't they make alternative bikes/tires for the fringe season that work in "Preston, AZ"?  I ride every week all year by swapping out tires. Never got into the "SNOW/FAT" bike think but studded tires seem to work better if you let the runners/hikers out to pack it all down.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

2melow said:


> Don't they make alternative bikes/tires for the fringe season that work in "Preston, AZ"?  I ride every week all year by swapping out tires. Never got into the "SNOW/FAT" bike think but studded tires seem to work better if you let the runners/hikers out to pack it all down.


Of course... Rode fatbikes exclusively in AK for years, but here in AZ there's so much good, easy-to-access, singletrack I have no real need for one. Nor any need for studs or special tires. Life is good.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

At 61 i consider myself semi retired. Helping out my aging mom, soon i will be able to live anywhere. Without kid i enjoy the outdoors, fat and mountain biking. If the nights are cold the ground gets solid and i am carefull not to fall to avoid injuries. The snow is a gift, an over the bar is no big deal. I might stay in Quebec, go to British Colombia??


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

33red said:


> At 61 i consider myself semi retired. Helping out my aging mom, soon i will be able to live anywhere. Without kid i enjoy the outdoors, fat and mountain biking. If the nights are cold the ground gets solid and i am carefull not to fall to avoid injuries. The snow is a gift, an over the bar is no big deal. I might stay in Quebec, go to British Colombia??


I'm not sure I'd call snow a gift, more often it's an inconvenience unless I want to go sliding. It is pretty, just not so much when I have to plow the driveway or dig out a berm.

I don't need snow to go over the bars, I do that quite well in dirt


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

33red said:


> At 61 i consider myself semi retired. Helping out my aging mom, soon i will be able to live anywhere. Without kid i enjoy the outdoors, fat and mountain biking. If the nights are cold the ground gets solid and i am carefull not to fall to avoid injuries. The snow is a gift, an over the bar is no big deal. I might stay in Quebec, go to British Colombia??


Are youa poet, by any chance? The meter of your post is very enjoyable.


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## bouncy_rig (Aug 22, 2007)

honkinunit said:


> I'm going to chime in again on an issue most people seem to be missing. Yes, it is cool to live in a forest somewhere in the west, but there is *nowhere* in the west that is safe from forest fires now, even the wettest parts of the NW. You may think you are OK with the risk, but your insurance company is not.
> 
> I've lived in the Front Range Colorado foothills for decades. When we moved here, fires were not even on anyone's radar. There hadn't been a catastrophic fire in Colorado in memory, and my homeowner's insurance was half of what it was for people in the suburbs. Fast forward to today, and there is a grand total of ONE insurance company willing to write policies in our area, and my low coverage, high deductible policy is $5500 a year. My agent said they have been put on notice that the company will probably pull out the next time there is a big fire anywhere in CO, if not before. When that happens, the **** will hit the fan. Without insurance, you are in default on your mortgage. Even if you are paid off, you will still have to find some kind of liability coverage just to insure you won't get sued into the poorhouse if someone trips on your front step. You will be unable to *ever* sell your house for anything close to what it is worth.
> 
> ...


Wow what a bummer post. I don't think your even close to reality HONK. Most people live in the suburbs and even though insurance is a great evil in a Capitalist America. Health insurance and end of life care weigh heavier on my mind than my property insurance.


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

bouncy_rig said:


> Wow what a bummer post.


 snip


bouncy_rig said:


> Health insurance and end of life care weigh heavier on my mind than my property insurance.


That's like topping his bummer post with another bummer post.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

My house insurance is $420USD/yr in the Canadian version of the PNW and that includes fire coverage and decent bicycle theft coverage. I live on a hill above any flooding and tsunami risk.

Our area does have earthquake risk which is not covered by my insurance, but is not required for my mortgage so I self insure for that rather than spending the money for questionable coverage.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

vikb said:


> My house insurance is $420USD/yr in the Canadian version of the PNW and that includes fire coverage and decent bicycle theft coverage. I live on a hill above any flooding and tsunami risk.
> 
> Our area does have earthquake risk which is not covered by my insurance, but is not required for my mortgage so I self insure for that rather than spending the money for questionable coverage.


Make sure never to mention that place. A quality spot depends on secret. A crowd ruins that fast. Just enjoy. That was my 2 yens sent from Quebec.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

bouncy_rig said:


> Wow what a bummer post. I don't think your even close to reality HONK. Most people live in the suburbs and even though insurance is a great evil in a Capitalist America. Health insurance and end of life care weigh heavier on my mind than my property insurance.


I have news for you, in case you missed it. In the past several years there have been massive, devastating wildfires in suburban areas of California and Colorado. Sure, if you live in the Chicago suburbs, wildfires are not an issue, but this is a MOUNTAIN BIKE forum and many people like to live in MOUNTAINOUS areas.

Huge swaths of the Front Range are "suburbs" and are in the insurance Red Zone. Half of Boulder, for example. Colorado Springs has had two huge wildfires.

When homeowner's insurance is $600 a MONTH, it tends to impact all but the most affluent retirees. That is my next door neighbor's latest quote as he searches for some alternative.

Ignore at your own risk.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/01/02/wildfire-risk-homeowners-insurance/


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

A blow to our search for a retirement location. We had zeroed in on the North Fork Valley of Colorado, a beautiful valley of organic farms and wineries, surrounded by mountains, a great river running through it, awesome outdoor recreational opportunities of all kinds. We had looked at several houses and were actually arranging financing on one of them. 

Then, a couple of weeks ago, BLM released the final EIS and resource management plan for the valley and nearby areas. 95% of the North Fork will be eligible for drilling. Only the Wilderness areas will be off limits, and even then, drilling right up to the boundaries will be allowed. In all likelihood, that valley will end up looking like Weld county or the area around Rifle. A wellhead every 40 acres, huge truck traffic, dust, fumes, leaks, lights everywhere at night, etc. No thanks. 

Back to the drawing board.


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## SS Hack (Jan 20, 2012)

Colorado seems to really have a lot of wells everywhere in a way that Texas doesn't even have. The fire issue is huge out here in California.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Have you considered northern Nevada?

?



honkinunit said:


> A blow to our search for a retirement location. We had zeroed in on the North Fork Valley of Colorado, a beautiful valley of organic farms and wineries, surrounded by mountains, a great river running through it, awesome outdoor recreational opportunities of all kinds. We had looked at several houses and were actually arranging financing on one of them.
> 
> Then, a couple of weeks ago, BLM released the final EIS and resource management plan for the valley and nearby areas. 95% of the North Fork will be eligible for drilling. Only the Wilderness areas will be off limits, and even then, drilling right up to the boundaries will be allowed. In all likelihood, that valley will end up looking like Weld county or the area around Rifle. A wellhead every 40 acres, huge truck traffic, dust, fumes, leaks, lights everywhere at night, etc. No thanks.
> 
> Back to the drawing board.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

honkinunit said:


> A blow to our search for a retirement location. We had zeroed in on the North Fork Valley of Colorado, a beautiful valley of organic farms and wineries, surrounded by mountains, a great river running through it, awesome outdoor recreational opportunities of all kinds. We had looked at several houses and were actually arranging financing on one of them.
> 
> Then, a couple of weeks ago, BLM released the final EIS and resource management plan for the valley and nearby areas. 95% of the North Fork will be eligible for drilling. Only the Wilderness areas will be off limits, and even then, drilling right up to the boundaries will be allowed. In all likelihood, that valley will end up looking like Weld county or the area around Rifle. A wellhead every 40 acres, huge truck traffic, dust, fumes, leaks, lights everywhere at night, etc. No thanks.
> 
> Back to the drawing board.


How long do you plan to live yet, roughly? Change will happen everywhere, and at an increasing rate. The best places are not popular at this time.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

looking to retire to a place near or on Lake Huron in Michigan...just started to research living in the area, but my wife's cousin lives in that area and retired from Ford 15 years ago....she loves it, but lives pretty simply and by herself. We also plan to live pretty simply...neither one of us has ever been "rich" and we don't need things to make us happy

Any Michigan retirees in here care to give advice?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bsieb said:


> How long do you plan to live yet, roughly? Change will happen everywhere, and at an increasing rate. The best places are not popular at this time.


Also the North Valley has been the in petroleum developer's targets for some time, it's just a continuation of what's already being/been done, plus it's not like they're gonna drill in your yard. If you want isolation, go back into the wilderness, which surrounds the North Valley. I looked at Montrose a few years ago, but we didn't like the lack of a downtown and the highway running through town, lacks a central place/central community.

Seriously, anyone who wants to move to a nice place and doesn't expect development to follow, well that's kinda naive or the place you're moving to is not a place anyone or developers will desire.

I found that picking a place, settling there, and growing with that place is generally the best bet.


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

Nurse Ben said:


> Also the North Valley has been the in petroleum developer's targets for some time, it's just a continuation of what's already being/been done, plus it's not like they're gonna drill in your yard. If you want isolation, go back into the wilderness, which surrounds the North Valley. I looked at Montrose a few years ago, but we didn't like the lack of a downtown and the highway running through town, lacks a central place/central community.
> 
> Seriously, anyone who wants to move to a nice place and doesn't expect development to follow, well that's kinda naive or the place you're moving to is not a place anyone or developers will desire.
> 
> I found that picking a place, settling there, and growing with that place is generally the best bet.


Sounds like you know nothing about split estate, and the impact of oil/gas drilling on property owners. You *can* have a drilling rig in your yard, and there is *nothing* you can do to prevent it.

30,000 foot: In the vast majority of Western Colorado, when you buy property, you are only buying the surface rights. It is almost impossible to find property where the mineral rights are conveyed. Owners/lessees of mineral rights (generally oil/gas companies) are allowed to drill on, and destroy, five acres out of every 40 acres of the surface, plus build an access road across the property to the wellhead. As a property owner, you have ZERO input into where, when, or how the well is drilled, as long as the wellbore is 500 feet from your house. Since the wellbore is normally in the middle of a five acre square, this means the actual well site ends up being about 250 feet from your house. Imagine a factory with a 125 foot tall drilling rig in the middle, with dozens of trucks, huge generators, massive tanks, and 100+ truck trips per day, for 2-6 months. Then, when the drilling is done, you have five acres of ruined and compacted land, an access road, a very loud, brightly lit 24x7 wellhead and possibly multiple 5000 gallon tanks that are visited multiple times per day, forever. You are subject to noise, dust, toxic fumes, traffic on your property, and the potential for spills of toxic waste. You have zero control over who comes and goes on your property.

From all of this, you don't get a dime. You only own the surface. You have no rights. Even if you are one of the rare people who own the mineral rights under your property, you can be *forced* to allow drilling of your own minerals, from your own property, by a regulation called "forced pooling". There is literally no way to prevent an oil/gas company from getting at *any* oil and gas deposit, whether they own it or not. If they want it, they will get it, and they will do it by destroying the surface.

https://www.kunc.org/post/colorados...ay-get-major-overhaul-heres-what-might-change

Multiply this situation every 40 acres, through an entire valley. They will even drill in town, in conservation easements and open space, in parks, in schoolyards. It is all legal because Colorado is owned by the oil and gas industry.

This isn't "development", this is destruction. Go look at Rifle, Colorado on Google Maps and switch to the satellite view. See all of those little rectangles connected by lines? Every one of those is a gas well, and houses exist in between those lines and rectangles. Houses whose value is 30-60% lower than the few houses not impacted by drilling. That is what was just approved for the entire North Fork. The towns of Paonia, Hotchkiss, Crawford, and Cedaredge all oppose what is going on, but it doesn't matter. Drilling is regulated by the state, and the state legislature is owned by the oil and gas industry, Democrats and Republicans.

https://grist.org/climate-energy/living-next-to-natural-gas-wells-is-no-fun/

The only way to avoid drilling is to live where there is no oil and gas. Unfortunately, just because they haven't found any today, doesn't mean they won't find it next year, or come up with new technology to get at oil and gas previously unreachable. The area around Rifle was drilled in the 50's-70's and was considered to be tapped out until fracking and horizontal drilling were perfected, now the area is a clusterfork. There are *zero* wells in the North Fork between Paonia and Delta at this time. This is all new.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

You could also live somewhere the property rights of homeowners are respected over the desire for profit on the part of the local energy extraction industries.
That isn't Colorado, apparently. I hear Utah has similar issues.

What good are low taxes if your investment in a place to retire can be ruined, without recourse, at the whim of some oil or gas company?


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## honkinunit (Aug 6, 2004)

andytiedye said:


> You could also live somewhere the property rights of homeowners are respected over the desire for profit on the part of the local energy extraction industries.
> That isn't Colorado, apparently. I hear Utah has similar issues.
> 
> What good are low taxes if your investment in a place to retire can be ruined, without recourse, at the whim of some oil or gas company?


Unfortunately, the majority of the states west of the Mississippi are also owned by oil and gas. California is really the only state with significant oil and gas that actually protects surface owners.

Colorado *is* the worst, with Utah a close second. Ironically, Texas, home of the oil industry, has much more stringent drilling regs than Colorado or Utah.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

Lovin' Tucson! Retired here 2 years ago.

Tons of trails and wide-open BLM land, year-round riding and hiking, summer heat no issue for those fit and acclimatized, low cost of living, downtown area and roads continually being improved. Great liberal multicultural landscape, and Arizonans are some of the nicest people I have met, having lived on 3 continents over the past 61 years.

If the heat's too much in the summer, there's a 9,000+ mountain right next door that is 20+ degrees cooler. And northern Arizona is most awesome... and there's the Arizona Trail, too. I ride it almost every day, and never get tired of it. The creatures you meet along the trail are amazing, too.

Worst part is all the Californians that are moving here!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Hambone70 said:


> Lovin' Tucson! Retired here 2 years ago.
> 
> Tons of trails and wide-open BLM land, year-round riding and hiking, summer heat no issue for those fit and acclimatized, low cost of living, downtown area and roads continually being improved. Great liberal multicultural landscape, and Arizonans are some of the nicest people I have met, having lived on 3 continents over the past 30 years.
> 
> ...


Are they close to Bostonians?
It is funny being from Montreal, Quebec i worked some months in Florida with the public. I allways new if a person was from Boston.
I will look at yearly average weather, i am cheap.


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## Hambone70 (May 8, 2019)

33red said:


> Are they close to Bostonians?
> It is funny being from Montreal, Quebec i worked some months in Florida with the public. I allways new if a person was from Boston.
> I will look at yearly average weather, i am cheap.


I DO happen to have a neighbor from Bwoston!


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Hambone70 said:


> I DO happen to have a neighbor from Bwoston!


Now on my bucket list, check that potential.
It is true, the web is not only for por


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