# Problem with Bushnell EBB



## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I've finally figured out why everytime I pulled my crank my bottom Phil Wood Ti bottom bracket fet so crappy. First, the BB worked just fine in a regular bike -- read that as a bike that did not have an eccentric bb. What seems to be happening is that when I tighten the expanding Bushnell EBB enough to prevent rotation when cranking hard, it binds the properly adjusted bb so that the spindle is very rough. They are bound so much that it's noticeable when pedaling down the road. Okay, maybe it's just a Phil Wood thing, but I found it was also possible to similarly bind the spindle of a Shimano XTR (UN91) bb. There's enough binding/compression when the EBB is tightened that it creates a noticeable binding of the cups during adjustments. This really appears to me to be an inherent flaw of the Bushnell expanding EBB design.

I'm really hoping that someone out there can address this issue and solve my problem. I have enough issues with grinding up tough hills without adding drag at the bottome bracket...


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

Try inserting and tightening the EBB all the way, first. Then install the BB and tighten completely. Then loosen the EBB and adjust for chain tension. THEN crank the EBB tight.

Hope this helps.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

azjonboy said:


> Try inserting and tightening the EBB all the way, first. Then install the BB and tighten completely.


Good suggestion, but I have been unwilling to finish the BB installation when the EBB is completely tightened due to the immense force it takes to screw in the BB. I haven't been able to thread in the Phil Wood retaining rings with the EBB cranked down tight, and while I was able to start the threading of the UN91 bb, I was very concerned about the effort it took to screw it in, and with my history of cross-threading things I didn't try to get it completely installed that way. So, that doesn't appear to be the solution.

I've used both Phil Wood Grease and a copper based anti-seize when mating the EBB to the frame. Perhaps I can get away with less "tightening" with a particular grease/anti-seize?

Thanks...


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## jl (Feb 23, 2004)

PeT said:


> I'm really hoping that someone out there can address this issue and solve my problem. I have enough issues with grinding up tough hills without adding drag at the bottome bracket...


I think this would solve your problem...










Unless it's not compatible


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

jl said:


> I think this would solve your problem...
> 
> Unless it's not compatible


Probably would... But isn't that a set-screw type of EBB? Perhaps I could get the set-screw as a retrofit...


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

oops. I was thinking external bearing BB. I haven't used the UN91 for a few years, and never with an EBB.
Good luck.
Try the guys at The Path Bike Shop.


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## wesMAmyke (Nov 12, 2005)

Run the BB taps through it when fully tighened down, should cure the problem.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

wesMAmyke said:


> Run the BB taps through it when fully tighened down, should cure the problem.


I like that idea -- thanks!


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## Helibee (Jun 10, 2004)

PeT, I believe I remember you were sporting a Blacksheep, but I don't know if this issue is with the same bike or not.... I think we need a pic (of the lamb) to clarify 

I was having many issues with with my EBB equipped Blacksheep. It would creak or slip without a large amount of torque applied. I have been though many different cranksets and BB and lubed and torqued everything many times over. Addtionally, I have issues with lubing a part which is subjected to so much dirt and grime. A natural collection point. I realise this isn't the specific problem you articulated.

What worked for me is Carvers new EBB with an expanding poly sleeve. It is noticably lighter and installs with significantly less torque and has been dead quite since installation. I highly recommend looking into it if problems persist.


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## Lutarious (Feb 8, 2005)

*Ditto*

I have had a similar problem with my Bushnell EBB and XT External Bearings. It seems like it distorts when you tension it in the BB shell, or when you tighten the Bottom Bracket in the EBB. I haven't figured out he correct order of things to prevent it completely, but I have resolved the drag/loosening issue with a simple ST UN-72 BB. Maybe you need a stiffer BB or a heavier casing for the bearing shell in order to prevent the BB distorting when it is really cranked tight.


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## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm running the 07 Bushnell EBB with 07 XTR cranks on my Blacksheep 29er SS. I've had no issues with creaking or slippage. I lube the inside of the EBB then use Ti prep or anti-seize on the inside of the BB shell. Then tighten and go just a tad tighter.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Indeed I am on a Black Sheep, and the picture below is the verification. I should note that the picture has it with a Rohloff Hub, but it's now outfitted as a single speed, and will likely remain so for the rest of the summer.



Helibee said:



> What worked for me is Carvers new EBB with an expanding poly sleeve. It is noticably lighter and installs with significantly less torque and has been dead quite since installation. I highly recommend looking into it if problems persist.


I like this idea too. I'll have to check it out -- for sure it the "tapping" solution doesn't work...

Thanks for all the suggestions!


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## spudpatchboy (Feb 5, 2007)

I have a steel PhilWood BB in a Bushnell EBB and used blue Loctite per PW's recommendation and it has been fine. I will admit a bit more creaking on than the PhilWood EBB in my old SS. I gave the entire Bushnell EBB a _*very *_light coat of Phil's grease and that alleviated the most of the creaking.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I don't have a creaking problem, but rather a "binding" problem -- the bearings are no longer the smooth, free-running affair that they were in a non-EBB bike when the EBB is tightened down. Have you checked to see if the spindle is still as free rotating after you tighten up the EBB?

By the way, I contacted the Bushnell people to see if they had any ideas and they're going to send me an EBB to see if that won't fix the problem -- excellent response in my opinion! I'll reply to this thread on how that works out...


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## Helibee (Jun 10, 2004)

Sorry to have possibly misdirected the post by mentioning the creak issue PeT. To clarify, I went the entire gammet trying to alleviate my bike's 'noise': from lubing the heck out of the BB, to lightly lubing, to no lube. I tried several BBs, cranksets, pedals, headsets, checked the couplers, lubed and re-lubed everything, torqued and re-torqued everything , ect, ect. What eventually worked for me was Carver's BB. Thought I'd pass it along.

One of the iterations was a PW BB whose bearings went south on me in short order. On discovering this, I had swapped to a different crankset and BB. I wonder now if the BB and it's torqueing may have contributed to the early death of those bearings? Who knows for sure. No problems presently, so I'm not changing a thing!

Off-topic: PeT, did you always have the BS Unicrown or was there a BS segmented fork on your ride at one time? How compliant is the unicrown? Just asking as I'm perfectly happy with my segmented fork. Cheers!


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Helibee said:


> What eventually worked for me was Carver's BB. Thought I'd pass it along.


And I appreciate it. If the new Bushnell that's being sent doesn't solve my problem, my next step with be the Carver BB. After doing some searching of the forums, it's clear that a lot of people have had success with the Carver EBB.



Helibee said:


> Off-topic: PeT, did you always have the BS Unicrown or was there a BS segmented fork on your ride at one time? How compliant is the unicrown? Just asking as I'm perfectly happy with my segmented fork. Cheers!


I did originally have a segmented fork on my BS. As a matter of fact, it was the first Ti 29er fork that James ever built. The picture of it is still on the BS website. While initially quite happy with it, I ultimately felt it was too compliant for my use -- it was great on smooth single track and gravel roads, but I was not quite as controlled as I expected to be in the rough stuff. Before I ever had my BS built, James had made me a custom steel fork (unicrown) for my Moots YBB so that I could experiment with geometry prior to going the full custom route. I realized that I had a significant preference for the more solid ride of the steel fork and was ready to have James build a steel 29er version (to be cost effective), but he scavenged the steer tube off my segmented Ti fork to build a more burly/firmer riding unicrown Ti fork. I do in fact prefer that firmer ride, even while mostly undertaking longer, rocky routes in the Rocky Mountains. I expect that segmented Ti fork that James built me was the most "compliant" one he ever built. On the new fork I can still see movement of the fork ends while riding over even moderately rough terrain, but I don't end up "sproinging" of the irregularities of the limestone cap-rock I have to cross on most every ride.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

*New Bushnell EBB is a winner!*

So I emailed the Bushnell people about my problem, just asking if they had ideas about how I could prevent binding of the BB when the EBB was tightened down. Their response was that it should not happen and they would send me a new EBB right away to see if that would solve the problem. They did and it did! I took what for me at this time of the year were a couple of epic rides into the hills (30 and 47 miles) and the EBB neither creaked nor slipped -- and it allowed me to set up the BB so that the spindle ran smooth and free. Even though the new EBB looks functionally the same, it works better. The new EBB is black and has a couple of more holes drilled in it for weight-savings (I presume), and the old EBB was silver/aluminum (two fewer holes on each side).

I appreciate the suggestions that came through and I'm sure that the Carver BB in particular would solve my issues as well. But I'd particularly like to thank the Bushnell people for exceeding all expectations and solving my problem, one that probably wasn't caused by their product but rather a combination of my BB shell and BB choice. Bravo Bushnell!


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## LAMB4920 (Apr 8, 2005)

PeT
I am having the very same problem with the Bushnell EBB you have pictured.
I have a custome Ti Seven SS with the Bushnell EBB.
I am running Middleburn square taper cranks so I went with the PhilWood stainless steel bottom bracket. I torque the EBB to 80in lb per Bushnell instructions and then my bottom braket just siezes up. I emailed them and they say that they have never have had that problem before.
I'll be sending them the link to this thread and let them eat crow.
If you have any more information please let me know.
Thanks
Bob


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

LAMB4920 said:


> If you have any more information please let me know.


Even though my last word in this thread was to sing the praises of Bushnell, I ended up going to the Carver EBB and an old (but new) Shimnano UN52 bottom bracket. This set-up neither slips (but it's cranked down plenty tight) and I need the heavy steel UN52 BB to prevent the binding. The Carver would still bind the Phil Wood. I'll bet you lots of money that most people with expanding EBB (be it Carver or Bushnell) and who are running BB with internal bearings (old style cartridges such as Phil Wood) have partially bound bearings and don't realize it because they only spin the spindle with the crankarm attached and it feels good. I would never recommend a Bushnell or Carver EBB unless you're planning to use a BB/crank combo that uses external bearings -- even them I'm not sure.

For what it's worth, I had a new frame built to be specific for single speed use -- I had it built without an EBB or sliding dropouts -- it needs to use an ENO eccentric rear hub. Works like a charm...


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Glad to hear the problem is fixed.

What has worked for me weather set screw IF frame or Bushnell BS frame is to lube the EBB with a mix of ti-prep and judy butter from years back. Once i have a slury of the mix grease up the inside of the frame lightly and then coat the EBB lightly. Insert and tighten with just a dab of lock-tite. Torque down to 44 in-pounds (if I recall for set screw) Bushnell make it tight then give it an extra 1/4 to 1/2 turn. Go ride.


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

Digging up an old thread.

Is anyone else experiencing this? I have just order a Phil Wood Magnium bottom bracket to mate with my Middleburn cranks, after faffing around with ISIS. Now I'm starting to worry. FWIW I have the new Bushnell ebb.


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## TurnerConvert (Dec 1, 2004)

uno-speedo said:


> Digging up an old thread.
> 
> Is anyone else experiencing this? I have just order a Phil Wood Magnium bottom bracket to mate with my Middleburn cranks, after faffing around with ISIS. Now I'm starting to worry. FWIW I have the new Bushnell ebb.


I've got the new Bushnell EBB and I've been using the XT external bottom bracket with it. I can't say that I noticed much binding of the bearings, but the bearings in this bottom bracket wore out after significantly less use than the bearings on my other bike that does not have an EBB on it. Hard to say exactly what caused these bearings to go south, so I'll leave any conclusions to be drawn to you....


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## JSD303 (Jun 15, 2006)

I have the new Bushnell EBB on my Sheep with a Phil Wood BB... haven't noticed any binding for a year.. just smooth pedaling and wonderful happiness. Don't worry. Ride and enjoy.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

JSD303 said:


> I have the new Bushnell EBB on my Sheep with a Phil Wood BB... haven't noticed any binding for a year.. just smooth pedaling and wonderful happiness. Don't worry. Ride and enjoy.


Yeah, well I didn't notice any binding for two years -- doesn't mean it wasn't there and it took wondering why every time I pulled the cranks for maintenance that the bb spindle was tough to turn with just my fingers. Sure, with the long lever of a crank arm the stroke of the Phill BB was smooth enough, but it wasn't when I used the more sensitive "turn the axle with fingers when crank-arm is removed" test. Funny thing -- my Sheep is smoother and more efficient (but maybe a half-pound heavier) with a less expensive Carver EBB and a cheap-ass Shimano UN52 bb than it was with a Bushnell EBB and a Phil Wood Titanium BB. _Now_ I ride and enjoy...


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

Since posting the above enquiry, I took delivery of my PW Mag/Ti BB and RS8 cranks and there is no binding. Joy.


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## brant (Jan 6, 2004)

I'm surprised that nobody has produced an over-width EBB unit with bearings fitted directly into it yet...


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I'm surprised that nobody has produced an over-width EBB unit with bearings fitted directly into it yet...


Like this?










https://www.philwood.com/americanisis.htm

I remember seeing a prototype that had over-sized bearings pressed into the eBB insert.

re Bushnells: I have 2 of them, one is pushing 5 years, and has an original UN72 BB in it, still spinning smooth, but it's pretty hard to pinch those steel cartidges. The other is ~3year with a Shimano external (still smooth), however the threads would have to be misaligned to cause binding in that type of bearing.


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