# Colorado Trail



## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Prepping for my CT thru-ride this summer and had a couple questions. 

1. How is navigation on the wilderness detours? I thru-hiked the trail a few years ago but obviously did not hike the detours. Currently I've got maps of the detours and the CT guidebook written descriptions. Is that enough? I won't have GPS.

2. Should I run a 26 or 28 tooth ring? Planning to stick to my 11-36 10 speed set-up. 

Aside from that I think I have it all nailed down. I'll be riding my ECR with a fairly light load. I won't be doing much night riding expect for maybe on the wilderness detours. 

Any other words of wisdom? (aside from don't take a rigid touring bike)


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

I'd probably do the 26 tooth ring since there's so much steep climbing. Then again so much of the climbing is hike-a-bike that it might not really matter. But I'd go 26 with a loaded bike and only a 36 out back.

I did the CT last summer with the mini guide book and a GPS. Navigation, including the detours, was straightforward enough that I could have left the GPS at home, but I looked at it fairly often anyway. I'd just recommend studying the route and perhaps making little cue sheets at night for the next day's ride. 

Wisdom? From your hike, you already know about packing as light as you can and getting on the trail early and trying to limit time above treeline in the afternoon, when afternoon electrical storms roll in. Speaking of rain, the mini guide book is in no way waterproof like the ACA maps, so I'd try to keep it as dry as possible. And I'd for sure consider flat pedals and shoes you can comfortably hike steeps in. (I wore 5.10 Camp Four's--the older model--and they were pretty much perfect.)


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm with you on early starts to avoid afternoons above treeline. I had a couple very close calls on my thru-hike. I learned a lot on that hike that should be helpful this summer. Still feel like I have a good grasp on most of the trail. I can remember lots of spots that were hard without a bike. 

I'm also going with flat pedals and 5.10 Aescents. My bike is heavy but my gear is ultralight. 

albeant--How long did it take you?


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

I love the Aescents for dirt road riding, but I was happy to have something a little more substantial (both in terms of support and traction) for the CT. I actually spent a while deliberating on shoes, and ended up being really glad I took my Camp Fours. 

I rode it with my wife, who does big tours every summer but then kind of stops riding in between, so we were out there the better part of a month. But it was so sweet I never felt like I was in a hurry to get it over with.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I feel solid with my shoe choice as it has been my backpacking shoe for a number of years as well. 

3 weeks on the CT isn't in the cards for me this year, if it was I'd leave the bike at home, but you are right it is hard to feel rushed out there. 

Thanks for the info.


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## albeant (Feb 24, 2004)

Cool, I hope you have a great ride! I definitely see myself doing the CT again at some point in the future, probably once the memory of being completely waterlogged has faded and all I remember is the beauty of it.


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

I toured the route in 2012 and raced it last year. Touring is the way to go on the CT. So much good riding, so many cool towns and good food stops and so much sh*tty hiking that you can skip some of while touring. 

1) It sounds like you're doing your homework, take photocopies of the guide book and you should be ok. 

2) I rode a 26T on a 'one up'd' cassette XT 10 speed cassette with a 42T out back in the race last year, it was too spiny. I'd go 26 36 if you're not going to one up it. 28 42 if you do.

3) Go to Salida, check out the shops, stay in the hostel, eat good food etc.. get shuttled up the road and ride Monarch Crest. Skip Fooses and Sergeants Mesa, you've already hiked it, you know how 'fun' that would be with a loaded bike. Bomb down to 50 then 114, this adds an extra resupply or snack stop and ride the Tour Divide Route until you get to the La Garita Detour. If you like riding dirt roads this is a nice break from hiking and pushing. I did this on my tour on the advice of a Salida local. When I finally saw the section in the race that I skipped over (Fooses/Sargeants) while touring, I reflected on her sage advice! Salida is too good to miss.

Lost Creek Detour: You can go the old route through Bailey and up 285 to Kenosha or the longer more remote Tarryall detour. I quite enjoyed the Tarryall route last year as it was new to me and was also the last day of my race. Some people gripe about it but I found the burn zone to have it's own serene qualities. 285 is a highway, narrow at points but I didn't find it to be as dangerous as many complain about. Whatever you're used to I guess. 285 is significantly shorter though and it may be an idea to keep it open and choose whichever you're feeling that day.

Don't skip Coney Cataracts. Segments 22 and 23 from Spring Creek Pass to Stony and down into Silverton are incredible (as you know). Get up early and get up high for those ~30 miles. It's unreal and worth the effort, just stay safe and don't get zapped!

Silverton is the last good re up before Durango. Power up for the finish.
In Durango visit Joey's shop Velorution and get your free beer at Carvers! 
Have Fun!


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Thanks mate. 

Sold me on the 26 tooth chainring. 

I'll give some thought to skipping Fooses/Sergeants Mesa but so far on my long hikes I have been kind of a purist so I'm leaning toward abusing myself. Plus, I'd get so see Apple I stick to the official route. 

I probably will ride the Tarryall detour and am thinking that would be a nice section for some evening/night riding on day 1. Unlikely that I'll 285/Bailey but like it you said it may be the right choice once I'm there. 

No chance I'm skipping Seg 22/23! That is a big part of the reason I'm going back. 

I spent most of a day in Salida on my thru-hike and remember it as a magical place. Super friendly folks, good food, beer, etc.. but if I stick to the official route I may bypass it this time.


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

No worries,

Absolutely ride it the way you want, it's your trip, your style, just passing on a couple ideas about the detours etc.. It's great you've hiked it and got to see all of the good stuff. I'd love to go back and walk the wilderness sections that bikes have to by pass.
As to Apple, he wasn't set up last year when we passed through on the race, which sticks 100% to the official bike route. I didn't really ask about it but I think there was some chatter on bikepacking.net about it. May be worth digging around on there a bit for some info if you haven't already.

Enjoy it!


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Yeah, wasn't really too concerned about Apple but I happened to meet him while hiking the AT and again on the CT so it would be fun. Just trying to give myself a reason to ride Sergeants now that you've given me a good alternative. 

From what I remember the wilderness areas were some of the best parts. Especially the stuff that the La Garita detour misses. From Eddiesville TH to Spring Creek Pass is amazing. Adds a lot of above treeline miles. Snow Mesa is super fun during a big storm! 

Thanks again for the suggestions.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Sargent Mesa!!! You're giving me flashbacks. Terrible flashbacks! that section broke my spirit. 

Ample touring trips behind me. Great Divide, Alaska to Co, to the W coast, the E coast, Colorado bike packing, Iceland.... Lots and lots of saddle time wasn't enough to prepare me for that section. That or I was just (wrongly) thought it was going to be just a bike trip. 
I was underfed, certainly underslept, and sweet baby Jesus.... I walked for what seemed like days one day. 

So yea- I'd vote to avoid that Mesa. Pretty but dang arduous. 
Skipping it might make you feel prepped and ready for the sections after Spring Creek Pass- because that's the good stuff. 

-JCBones


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Live and Don't Learn! I'll likely ride Sargents Mesa and kick myself the whole time. Feel compelled to push my bike through that rocky mess even though I can remember distinctly standing at the junction to Snow Lake and feeling pretty miserable on a thru-HIKE. It will only be a lot worse with a bike. 


Any more thoughts on navigating the wilderness detours using only guidebook instructions and pages from the CT map book? Only the Lost Creek, and La Garita detours give me any concern. Is there any signage or like NM has it all been shot to hell?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Matterhorn said:


> Any more thoughts on navigating the wilderness detours using only guidebook instructions and pages from the CT map book? Only the Lost Creek, and La Garita detours give me any concern. Is there any signage or like NM has it all been shot to hell?


I believe the current Databook contains all the bike detours.

I did it with the old DB and had to depend on the map book pages, which are (were, in the edit I have?) reduced in size to the point of making them a real PITA to depend on. The small print is illegible.

The signage is, overall, good on the detours as I recall, but the Databook with the detours would be a really handy nav/info tool. Doubly so with no GPS backup.

CT Data Book


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I've got the current maps/description from the latest Guidebook as well as the maps from the Map Book. 

My Data book is the 4th edition. Looks like I'll grab a new 6th edition and call it good.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

I don't understand why so many people hate Sargents Mesa. Maybe I have selective memory or something, but I don't remember it really being that bad.

As for gears, go with the smallest that you can while still making progress. It's a LONG ride, and you will probably use those easier gears more than you imagine.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Sargents Mesa was a bummer for me, while thru hiking, because I was nearly out of water (which was filtered from a cow's butt), the mosquitos were terrible, it was quite hot, and I was regularly being dusted by maniacs on motor bikes. Still not a bad place to be. I certainly won't avoid it because it is hard. 

I'll go with the 26 tooth chainring. Thanks for pushing me that direction.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Getting closer to my July 18th start and am quite excited. Gear is pretty dialed in and I'm only waiting on my Enlightened Equipment Enigma quilt. Should be at about 5 lbs in the seat bag, 4 lbs tucked under the Jones H-bar, and a frame bag full of food. Backpacks are for hikers. 

Been putting in lots of time on a loaded bike and feel great. 

Also grabbed some new Five Ten Access Mesh shoes and the seem perfect for backpacking. Nice stiff S1 rubber sole and a cool, fast drying mesh upper. 

Can't wait to get to Waterton.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Fantastic Matterhorn. 
Always good to be on the brink of a fun adventure. 

Can I get a shot of your bike? Or is it somewhere above? 

-JCB


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I had a photo handy from a winter trip. If you didn't already know winter in the desert is great.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Holy Bloated Water Truck Matterhorn! 
But, very cool. 

You owe us a debt now you know? You must keep us up to date on how that trip goes for you. 
The good stuff all starts after Kenosha. 
To me anyway... It was good to be out of the sandy low lands and up high. 

-JCB


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Will do. My CT set-up is a little more trim but since I'm quite tall all my stuff is just bigger than most folks. Aside from a heavy ECR my gear is quite light, looking at about 10 lbs minus food/water. No backpack either. 

Yeah, I thru-hiked the CT in 2010 and would have to agree the good stuff is after Kenosha but I'm stoked to rip through seg 3 just the same. Remember seeing lots of fit CO ladies rolling through there!


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Following this thread with interest. Contemplating a go at the trail in early September. Also interested to hear your experiences.

Have you worked out a timeline as to how long it might take you? I've read a few places where 10 days or so is a good plan - a combo of enjoying oneself but also keeping the pace up.

Since you folks seem somewhat like locals - any ideas where someone could leave a car in Denver near start? Then return from Durango? Best just to rent a car back?


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I'm planning on 10 days +/-. May do a little night riding if it works out on some of the wilderness detours (lost creek or la garita especially) but only because I like riding at night. I'm a stay-at-home dad that lives in a blazing hot desert so I won't be in a big hurry to finish. Looking to just enjoy some CO high country and relax. Might take time out to climb a 14er or two. Planning on camping each night and minimizing town stops. 

Not really a local but just a smart New Mexican who heads north each summer for a break from the heat. I'd maybe park your car in Durango then rent a car to get to Denver. That way once you finish you'll be at your car and can just head home.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Headed to Waterton on Wednesday after a day of relaxing in Durango. Feeling good on all fronts. Got the bike loaded and tuned. Nothing to do now but wait. 

Starting 4 days ahead of the race. Will be fun to see those weirdos go by. I'll be the lump sleeping on the side of the trail.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Good luck, look forward to hearing about your experience. I'm settled on early September - can't wait!


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Of the ample buckets of abuse the CoTr handed out to me last year (I'm looking at you Soldiers Mesa), the really good parts still stand out in my mind. 
Many of those are between Lake City and Silverton. 
Man. So perfect.

Perfect enough the wife and I rode that section last week. Will do a portion of it this Tuesday too but sans bike pack gear. 








Enjoy your trip. 
I hope the weather is good to you. Not too hot, never too cold. 
And no lightning! 
Safe travels.

(winter is coming- go pedal)
-JCB


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I wish winter was coming. Supposed to cool off to 103 next week though. I'm hoping it hails and rains on me everyday! I'm imagining my skin will sizzle when moisture hits it. We'll see. Either way I can't wait to get back on the CT. 

JCB--you need to come down here, southern NM, for a nice break from winter. Lots of wide open space, sunshine, and green chiles.


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

Matterhorn... I'll be riding the race again this year. Depending on how long you're out there we may pass each other. Have a great time out there!


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

you're racing it "again"? 
You seemed like such a smart person. 

Most major metropolitan locations have ample public funding for folks with uh... issues. 
I hope you get the help you need Addy. 
And I hope you pedal like the wind and the course is good to you. 

-JCB


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Addy Marx said:


> Matterhorn... I'll be riding the race again this year. Depending on how long you're out there we may pass each other. Have a great time out there!


Enjoy the race. If you are riding in 6 days or fewer you'll likely catch me. I'll offer one of my gummy bears when you roll past. It will help!


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

Johnny Chicken Bones said:


> you're racing it "again"?
> You seemed like such a smart person.
> 
> Most major metropolitan locations have ample public funding for folks with uh... issues.
> ...


hahahah! that made my day. I know, I know.. I narrowly missed my goal last year and I always had the intention of racing it twice. Once to learn the course better and learn what I was made of and the second time to hopefully make good on those hard learned lessons. We'll see how it goes this year.
Thanks for the well wishes!

Matterhorn, I'll be using the gummy bears as incentive, but will have to wait until the finish in Durango to accept. Dems the rules. Maybe we can have a beer at Carvers together as our reward.

Cheers guys, see you on the other side!


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

Matterhorn said:


> Headed to Waterton on Wednesday after a day of relaxing in Durango.


Wednesday as in 7/20? If so we will be starting on the same day.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Yes sir starting 7/20. Likely sometime around midday I'll start rolling. Planning to sleep most nights but might do some night riding in the Lost Creek Detour. Nearly full moon and a burned out forest seem like a good match for a night cruise. 

See you out there.


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

I'll be starting around 8am and also plan on taking advantage of the moon on the Lost Creek Detour. It does seem like a perfect mix. I'll also be running 29+ rigid. Should be a good time.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Well if I see you out there I won't wave or smile or start conversation. In fact I'm not even a real person. 

Lay down some sick skids on the LC detour so I know which way to go.


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

If I do run into you I'll be the overly excited one who wants to talk a lot and buy you a beer if possible. I got you covered on the skids.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

How many days to plan on taking to get to Durango? 

Depending on how the night riding is going we might miss The Stage Stop Saloon. If its open I'll happily accept that beer! 

Can't sleep....


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## bikepunk13 (Mar 27, 2012)

There will be little sleep for me tonight. 10 days is the plan. Stagestop might get missed but there will be other beer stops.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Had another great 20 miles of CoTr today. Dodging storms and occasional hikers. 
I'm not sure I'm envious of your upcoming lap on it. But maybe. Last year is still echoing in my head too loudly to fully feel the envy. But maybe. 

-JCB


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Made it to Durango yesterday morning. ECR did quite well for a tank-like touring bike. 

Details....I bet there are some but really it just seemed like 10 awesome bike rides in a row.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Had a request for photos but instead I can provide a list of stuff I DID NOT have with me.

1. Camera
2. Stove
3. Chamois and ASSociated cream
4. Clipless shoes/pedals
5. Backpack
6. Thru-axles, tapered HT, short chain stays, hydraulic brakes
7. GPS
8. Had buttons on my shirt but rarely used them (might just wear a cape next time!)

That list and the fact that I rode an ECR gives a little insight to my style. My best piece of gear is a good attitude. Super light and cheap.


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

So 10 days was a good pace? Long days but not a brutal slog?


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## hamsterspam (Sep 28, 2014)

maybe now after a "wee bit" of hike-a-bike i can get you over to AS without having to spend 4 hours walking the bikes over baylor!


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

chunkylover53 said:


> So 10 days was a good pace? Long days but not a brutal slog?


I'd say it oscillated between brutal and enjoyable. 12 days might be better, my town stops were limited to a meal and quick resupply and I my longest stop was half a day off at Molas to meet some friends.

After all the HAB I'd say I'm ready to easily push the bikes over Baylor. Hardly even seems like a hill.


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## brassnipples (Feb 26, 2006)

chunkylover53 said:


> So 10 days was a good pace? Long days but not a brutal slog?


I just finished the route in 11 days, we were riding from 8am to 8pm most days and spent maybe one day worth of that time chilling out. Ten days isn't quite a daily sun-up-to-sun-down grind but it's close. To finish in 10 days you can keep a pretty chill pace and can sleep 8 hours each night but don't expect to have any meaningful leisure time, all of your time will be spent riding, eating, and sleeping.

11 days was quite enjoyable, but if I were to tour it again I'd shoot for closer to 14 days, that would give more time to enjoy some of the mountain towns, have a few slack mile days, swim, etc...


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## chunkylover53 (Apr 5, 2007)

Thanks. I'm looking at a start during week of September 5. Going to shoot for 10 days, mostly because that's what work and family allows. I could be able to squeeze out a day or two extra (in case of weather, mechanical etc.) if I absolutely had to. My fitness is pretty good this year, so I'm hopeful I can get it done. Following the CTR lately really makes me want to get out there!



brassnipples said:


> I just finished the route in 11 days, we were riding from 8am to 8pm most days and spent maybe one day worth of that time chilling out. Ten days isn't quite a daily sun-up-to-sun-down grind but it's close. To finish in 10 days you can keep a pretty chill pace and can sleep 8 hours each night but don't expect to have any meaningful leisure time, all of your time will be spent riding, eating, and sleeping.
> 
> 11 days was quite enjoyable, but if I were to tour it again I'd shoot for closer to 14 days, that would give more time to enjoy some of the mountain towns, have a few slack mile days, swim, etc...


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

Just got home yesterday after the hanging out in Durango for the better part of a week after the race. Man what a ride. Hit my sub 7 day goal at 6days 21hours 41minutes. Super pumped on how things went out there. So many lessons learned (as always) and perversely am looking forward to next year but only on a full susser and more gears... the 28 x 11-36 ten speed on my hard tail was, uh, pretty hard hahah. Have fun out there everyone!


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Addy Marx said:


> Just got home yesterday after the hanging out in Durango for the better part of a week after the race. Man what a ride. Hit my sub 7 day goal at 6days 21hours 41minutes. Super pumped on how things went out there. So many lessons learned (as always) and perversely am looking forward to next year but only on a full susser and more gears... the 28 x 11-36 ten speed on my hard tail was, uh, pretty hard hahah. Have fun out there everyone!


Well done! Let's hear some more about all these lessons you learned.

I learned that no gearing is low enough. Should have gone 24 X 11-36. Aside from that I did everything perfectly as always. I looking forward to a different ass kicking...maybe the AZT?


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## Addy Marx (Jul 18, 2009)

The AZT is awesome! I raced the 300 last year, toured the route again (minus Mt. Lemon) in November then raced it again this year single speed. It's such a good route. I'd love to have a crack at the whole thing.

Lessons learned...
*Last time I'll ride the CT on a hardtail unless I am strong (or brave or foolish) enough to attempt it single speed. In the market for a full suspension. 
*Resupply between BV and Silverton was *just* enough. Little more food next time. 
*Just being confident with the route. Last year I had a hard time breaking the route down and digesting it from end to end prior to start. This year I was better prepared/more knowledgeable . Next year even more so.
*Gear/Kits were good. 
*Also in the market for an acclimation tent for my bed j/j haha. 22 and 23 were hard this time around. 

Overall a good ride though. 
You guys have a good time out there Matterhorn?


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I did have a good time....mostly. Seg. 22/23 were quite tough for me as well. Thought of letting my bike slip down the scree slope just past Cataract Lake and continuing on foot. 

Had you asked me in Durango I would have said, "Never again" but as always happens I'm scanning the horizon for the next trip. Likely I'll ride the AZT. Just don't have time for long backpacking trips so I'll stick with the bike for now.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I got shoved down 'n' pushed around
All I could hear there was a screamin' sound
Don't remember one thing more
Just remember walkin' up on a little shore
Head busted, stomach cracked
Feet splintered, I was bald, naked
Quite lucky to be alive though. 

As usual Bob Dylan has some lyrics that sum up my experience.


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## jmaddocks (Apr 15, 2007)

Looking for some insight from those who have bikepacked the CT, as I'm hoping to do it summer '17. Can you comment on hammock vs. tent? TIA...


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## brassnipples (Feb 26, 2006)

jmaddocks said:


> Looking for some insight from those who have bikepacked the CT, as I'm hoping to do it summer '17. Can you comment on hammock vs. tent? TIA...


Normally I'm a hammock guy but I opted for tent and was happy I did. You will be above tree line for significant stretches and in my experience it's nicer to be stuck in a tent than a hammock if you are pinned down by bad weather. That said, it would have been really nice to have the comfort of the hammock on some nights but you're so exhausted every night that comfort is not terribly important.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

I'm always confused by you hammock types but that's mostly just me not totally understanding how well they work. 

I'm w/ Brass though. I think there'd be more options of locations to camp w/a tent. 
Most of the up high stuff (the stuff that just stay high, not the little jaunts up and over ie Georgia, Kokomo, top of Greens etc) is past Lake City. But when you're up there, you're up for some time. 

-JCBs


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

Of my 9 camps this summer only 1 was unsuitable for hammocks. As a tarp user I made no special efforts to camp near good hammock spots. Aside from the section between Spring Creek Pass and Stoney Pass it would be easy to find a hammock spot. 

If you sleep well/better in hammocks then I'd say go for it. Good sleep is important.


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## jmaddocks (Apr 15, 2007)

Thanks all. Actually, I'm a tent guy but was considering getting a hammock.


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## brassnipples (Feb 26, 2006)

Johnny Chicken Bones said:


> I'm always confused by you hammock types but that's mostly just me not totally understanding how well they work.
> -JCBs


I really try to be a hammock guy but if I were to be completely honest they've end up being a significant hassle about half the time. When everything lines up nice they are the best, but it's often harder to find just the right hang spot than a flat place for a tent, if it's even a little cold you have to make special accommodations to keep your down side warm, you have to remember a how to tie the right knots or carry special hanging gear, and they aren't amazingly light or packable compared to modern tents. I've had some of my best nights sleep in hammocks but I've also wasted enough time fiddling with them or lost sleep due to their inherent flaws that I'd be hard pressed to recommend them as the go-to option.

On the CT I used a Big Agnes Copper Spur tent in the 'fast fly' setup (footprint and fly without a tent body) and it was perfect. Faster and easier to setup than a tarp or hammock or even a full tent, solid in bad weather, really light, lots of room. The only quibble I have is that the fly doesn't get close enough to the ground to keep wind out but that was pretty easy to mitigate and was never an issue even in a full on thunderstorm on our last night.


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Lots of places where you'd be hard-pressed to hang a hammock, especially if you get pinned down by bad weather up high. Of the two, I think that a tent would be a far better option.

That said, a bivy bag is the most versatile option. You can sleep warmly and safely almost anywhere while not carrying a bunch of weight. Park your head under a tree, and they are even pretty comfortable in everything but the worst weather. If it really pours, throw your rain jacket over your head and support it with a stick, and you won't even get too much condensation!


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## mdilthey (Dec 15, 2014)

TobyGadd said:


> Lots of places where you'd be hard-pressed to hang a hammock, especially if you get pinned down by bad weather up high. Of the two, I think that a tent would be a far better option.
> 
> That said, a bivy bag is the most versatile option. You can sleep warmly and safely almost anywhere while not carrying a bunch of weight. Park your head under a tree, and they are even pretty comfortable in everything but the worst weather. If it really pours, throw your rain jacket over your head and support it with a stick, and you won't even get too much condensation!


Also love bivvies for bikepacking!


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I've not looked recently but I found bivy bags to be heavier than tarps. I'm quite happy to take 3 minutes to set up my tarp and have a big enough dry space for me and my stuff. Still really only need the smallest of spots, like a bivy, as tarps will happily cover bushes and rocks if needed. Never really understood the advantage of bivy bags or hammocks.


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

Ahh...
Tarp Vs Bivy! 

My tarp (ZPacks, cubine fiber) is lighter than the iphone you might be reading this on. 
Seriously. And it'll sleep two folks w/ gear tucked in w/ room to spare.
Wait... W/ a few stakes it might be slightly heavier than your phone. Slightly. 
It's insane. Every time I use it, I'm amazed at how light it is. And teeny. Takes almost no space. And I've never been as tight on space as in bike packing. 
6.3 ounces for the tarp
.2 ounces for each Ti stake. I carry 4- that's an extra ounce of stakes. 
It's still a crazy piece of kit to me. 

But, if it was some crap wagon of doom falling out of the sky after a long slog on some of the rougher parts of that trip? I'd rather have a bivy. 

Plunk it down, zip it mostly sort of shut, put your coat over the hood, your head in a tree...
And you're good to go. Sort of. 

Waterproof/breathable fabrics are best when closer to your skin. And when there's a good temperature difference between inside/outside. 
As your skin sweats, the moisture passes thru your sleeping bag's insulation (cooling as it goes) until it hit's the inside of your bivy where it sticks and starts a slow passage thru the ToddTex, Gore or whatever you are using. 
Sure some are better than others- but none are as breathable as a tarp. 

So, if you had to use it night after night, in damp conditions? The bivy could result in your bag getting more and more damp. 
Now- all that debris said- it's Colorado. Things dry in 30 seconds on a sunny day. 
So one or three times a day? Pull the bag out when you're stuffing your face, put it in the sun, and you'll be all set. 
Unless you're on that dang trail in the monsoooooooons. 

The tarp can take some tinkering. As mentioned above. 
If you are a tarp guy- you'll be maybe fine. At least until the wind shifts and the sideways rain starts in on you and your so light down bag. 

Tents are all about bad weather. 
If it's good and mostly clear? No tents for me please.

But I've yet to be completely taken by surprise in Colorado (lived here since 1980). Sure things have been much worse than I guessed but not w/o the time to get low and near better shelter. Much of the time you are one long cold coast down to something more comfy. Maybe even something w/ a roof. 
When I've been hosed? It's usually due to a tight schedule that must keep me moving, or poor judgement on my part. (Which is where I usually have the most fun.)


Jeez....that's a long one. 
Sorry.

Tent? Bivy? Hammock? Tarp? 
You'll be fine w/ any of the above. Plan ahead and know how they excel and stumble. 
But know your systems and how to use them when you are diminished. 

-JCBs


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

I can't imagine lying half under a tree breathing damp stank rain coat air in a storm beats the luxury I've experienced under my MLD tarp. Got nailed at Georgia Pass on a thru hike a few years ago and could still cook dinner, change clothes, even urinate while staying fresh and dry. 

I also kinda enjoy the tinkering part of the tarp. Site selection is a fun process.

Mr. Bones--how much does your bivy weigh?


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## Johnny Chicken Bones (Jul 13, 2005)

My bivy probably isn't considered light anymore. 
It's a 2 layer Outdoor Research simple bag (no poles for the hood).
Pretty sure it's right at 16oz. 

-El Bones.


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