# POC armor? Thoughts concerns



## Reign rider (Oct 30, 2008)

Anyone using any of the POC armor products. I'm looking to buy the Spine VPD Tee and I'm just wondering what the thoughts are on it. 

I know that fit is going to be different for everyone but have anyone had any issues (arm pits, side panels, shoulder pads etc...) 

And had anyone put it through its paces.

Any input would be great thanks..


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

I have everything except the crash pad shorts:

1. POC Helmet. Overall rating 10/10. Love it! biggest concern is heat but its still 8/10 for air flow. Its mostly hot around the jaw/cheek. I have had one head first landing at Whistler on it. No problems except I couldnt breath right for about 5 minutes, and the visor is permanently bent.

2. POC Chest. Overall rating 9/10. My Rockgrdn would never fit right. The arms/elbow would move around. The VPD material seems great. It works well for the spine, and there is a thin plastic backbone as well. I had issues getting the fit right and had to order two sizes, they let me swap out with no hassles (comp cyclist). I think they run a bit large, so go with a smaller one if you are in between. It runs tight in the middle. The medium would not fit my belly (36+ inch waist 6'1 200 lbs). Lance armstrong would wear a medium ( I think he is 6'1). Also the VPD back brace can ride up depending on your torso length. Make sure you take it on a test ride before getting it all dirty to see if this part fits right. Lastly, it breathes really well. I wore it in 102 degree heat and it wicked the sweat and evaproated it, seems to be a coolmax type material. The white gets stained with mud and I gave up trying to get it out since no way am I going to use bleach. It is easy to machine wash with mild soap however.

3. POC Arm/elbows: The POC elbows are the best on the market. I tried all comers incl the 661 and Dainese. The Dainese wouldn't articulate well, and the 661 viscoelastic seemed warm and had no forearm coverage. They all stay in place (which is huge, compared to other crappy products) but the POC was too tight in the arms for me. I was going to give them too my GF but they are just too good to use another brand. I still use them for freeride even though they are tight.

4. POC Knee/Shin. The disappointment so far. I think it's the VPD layer in the knee (it has the hard plastic AND the VPD). I think it rotates the whole thing laterally (clockwise on the right, etc). I love the calf protectors, they somehow do not feel hot like they should, maybe it's because they are on the calves. The only problem is rotating, and I have not been able to adjust them to avoid that. I have thought about modifying them (even separating the knee/shin interface) but as yet have not done so. I see no other replacement on the market. The Roach used to rotate as well, so maybe its my vastus medialis (inner quad). The 661 would work (and likely stay put), but no shin or calf protection. I have thought about using the lower shin/calf of the POC and a 661 Knee.

If anyone has any ideas, I would love to hear them.

Overall, I love POC and am a bit of a fanboy of minimalist designs (even though my bike has gold bling on it).

oh.. here is my thread for helmet choices, you can see photos there and the thought process:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=486086&highlight=poc+cortex


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

I have been wearing the spine VPD tee for over 2 months now.

Amazing.

Lightweight, comfy, and the Visco-Elastomer Polymer dough, while sounding like a marketing gimmick, is amazing and works better than any other i've ever tried, whilst being the most comfortable.

Can't say enough good things. Blows the 661 stuff out of the water.

I wore it for 1Hr and 27m during the mega avalanche, and it was brilliant, it really is the lightest, comfiest armour i've tried and over here was only £20 more than the top 661 suit. and cheaper than Dianese.

The only thing i found is the VPDough back board is quite long, and so sometimes rides up and interferes with my helmet when looking up, but i'm checking with them whether it can be trimmed.

Other than that, its taken some pretty hard falls and i've barely felt a thing, the shoulder protection is great, mobile and the underarm scallop means its airy, helped by the coolmax material. (Which as mentioned gets dirty and isn't easy to get white again). 

The centre piece in the spine board is High Density VPD and the main board is a lower density more flexible VPD, and I found it hard to have any confidence in it at first, but after my first crash, i was well impressed.

The best things are the backboard is really comfy, and very cool compared with the competition. The centre zip and 2 x chest plates are really comfy and easy to get in and out too.

The fit and finish is top notch, and far better than the pretty shoddy 661 stuff i've tried (Poorly sewn edges, wonky logos, uneven padding).

Having this has pushed me to look at their arm+leg armour for when i need some next.

Having tried quite a few out (Dianese, 661) i can confidently say this is the best, and the 4 guys i did the mega with agreed, after using their 661 suits. Everyone i've let try it on has been amazed at how comfy it is.

I'm 6'2" and got the L/XL and paid £180 ($298) (but the dianese is $330 over here)

Hope this helps!


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

I tried on the elbow guards a couple weeks ago, and for some reason they didn't feel right to me. I don't know if it's because I need to give them some time to break in or what, but they didn't feel as instantly nice as my fox launch set. I'll try them on again this weekend, maybe I'll change my mind. I need a new pair of elbow pads since a rock bit through my current set and left me with a bit of a dent in my elbow.


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## westman (Jul 13, 2007)

You need to let the VPD stuff get warm and adapt to your elbows. Just trying them on is completely different to when you're riding and warm. They are great if you let them warm up.


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## dirtwhip (Aug 14, 2009)

*Drop the Hammer*

I own the legs, arms and helmet/goggle combo. As stated above the FF helmet gets about an 8/10 because of the warmth but if your not doing XC trails it's not much of an issue, plus for a fiberglass shell it's super light. The VPD does mold tons better after it's warmed and the mobility on both the arms and legs is pretty amazing. I've taken some light spills on them and they've more than done the job. Had the same issue of slight rotation with the legs but only because I've got chicken legs and had to take the straps all the way in; even then it only happens on extreme tech sections of downhill. All in all very impressed with all the new materials and armor that isn't over-built. Priced higher than others but the quality and material are worth it if your not into paying hospital bills.


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## Reign rider (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks for all the input guys, I was just going to buy the 661 pro pressure suit. The POC stuff interested me but not having a shop that carries it around here left me with little choice. And the only shop that carries it anywhere close to me is a 3 hour drive. 

With all the positive reviews it makes my decision much easier. 

Once again thank you.


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

Yeah, i was dubious about not being able to try it on, but took the plunge anyway, and am well pleased! Seriously nice bit of kit for those willing to spend more to get more.


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## Toddmac1 (Aug 6, 2007)

+1 for the POC VPD TEE

It's so comfortable you don't have to wear an under layer. 
Wish it was light grey and a bit cheaper.
One week old & it now looks like a dirty stained tee shirt.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Is anyone running a Leatt with the VPD T, or tried one on with it? I'm really interested in the POC armor, but concerned with how it will work with the Leatt.


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## rdhfreethought (Aug 12, 2006)

Toddmac1 said:


> +1 for the POC VPD TEE
> 
> It's so comfortable you don't have to wear an under layer.
> Wish it was light grey and a bit cheaper.
> One week old & it now looks like a dirty stained tee shirt.


Agree, on hot days I do not wear anything underneath and its fantastic.

+1 for the Leatt Brace. If I can I will try to borrow-beg-steal to see if it will fit.


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

I am interested in the VPD Tee and was concerned if it would accept a Leatt brace so I emailed POC asking if it would. Here is the responce.

" We have quite a few of our riders that wear the spine Tee and the Leattbrace. 

jarka"

So it sounds at least from them that it is a go for the leatt which means I will end up buying one soon


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## Frisco43 (Apr 1, 2006)

Anyone running the "joint PVD knee" pad? If so how is the protection on the side of the knee? It's a little hard to tell in the picture. Man, I wish the helmets had a larger sizing. It sucks to have a big noggen.


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## Hesh to Steel (Oct 2, 2007)

So based on peoples' recommendations in this thread I picked up a set of the elbow/forearms sunday. The comment about letting them warm up is spot on. They don't FEEL as securely attached to my arms as the Fox pads I was using before, but they did not move AT ALL while riding. They seem much more protective than the Fox gear as well, the VPD stuff is thick but doesn't get in the way, and the hard shell is more robust than the plastic on my old pads. 

Glad I made this purchase, and thanks for the info in this thread.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

The Beater said:


> I am interested in the VPD Tee and was concerned if it would accept a Leatt brace so I emailed POC asking if it would. Here is the responce.
> 
> " We have quite a few of our riders that wear the spine Tee and the Leattbrace.
> 
> ...


I'm curious how they are working the two together. I would think that in order to have the brace sit where it needs to, at least the rear portion would have to go under the Tee. By the looks of it that would have an effect on the fit of the Tee, at least the collar. Any thoughts?

Most of the other armor vests or jackets that are being used with the brace are being worn over the brace with a modified jersey, or the rear of the brace is being slid in between the spine protector and the "mesh" of the armor through a slit cut in the jersey in order to keep the brace on the outside rather than stretching or cutting the neck of the jersey.


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## Toddmac1 (Aug 6, 2007)

I am contemplating a leatt as well.
I've seen more & more Leatt braces worn over armor, front & back with the straps.
The POC Tee back protector is fairly thin & flat, I would think that unless you are on the big side it should fit fine over the POC Tee. 
You can alwas cut a U in the top of the back protector.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

In order for the Leatt to be effective, it needs to be worn as close to the skin as possible with regard to the portion that sits over the spine. Wearing it over the spine protector would shift the brace up and forward from its intended position over the spine. Wearing it over a jersey, or over the mesh portion of a pressure suit will work as its just a layer of fabric between the brace and your spine, but when you add other materials, it progressively moves the brace away from its intended position. I wouldn't do it.


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## Toddmac1 (Aug 6, 2007)

godfather said:


> In order for the Leatt to be effective, it needs to be worn as close to the skin as possible with regard to the portion that sits over the spine. Wearing it over the spine protector would shift the brace up and forward from its intended position over the spine. Wearing it over a jersey, or over the mesh portion of a pressure suit will work as its just a layer of fabric between the brace and your spine, but when you add other materials, it progressively moves the brace away from its intended position. I wouldn't do it.


Hmmm... I was hoping the sport brace would allow me to move the back plate back without affecting the position of the collar.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

I'm fairly certain you could move the back plate far enough to make it possible to fit the spine protector between it and your back, but there would almost certainly be a gap above the spine protector, between the brace and your spine rather than a consistant flush fit against your back as intended. I think you would either have to tuck the back of the brace down between your neck and the collar of the Tee, or cut a slot above the spine protector to slide it between it and your body.


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## westman (Jul 13, 2007)

I got my POC article with an interview and reviews of pretty much all the armor published last friday. It's in swedish but you could use google translate.. I've been riding with the kit since april now.

http://happymtb.org/2009/08/21/poc-svenska-skydd-for-den-krasne/


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## The Beater (Aug 17, 2008)

I just put it through google translator and pasted parts here for those who are to lazy. Hey Westman did you ever try the Tee with a leatt? Do you still have the Tee and have not tried the Tee with a leatt and are able to do so could you let us know how it fits if at all.

As the serious testers we are, we obviously test stuff crashed a few times. Here are a post-crash report, the protection of protection. 

Crash Jacket 
Vest, crash jacket, pressure suit. Dear child has many names. POC call her for Spine VPD Tee. It is a light and ventilated history consisting of a thin net-like fabric that holds together a combination of plastic protection for the torso and shoulders with a back plate of the VPD material. The back plate mold to your back and can be described as a wine gum in a sense. Though it hardens immediately when a switch in it. Amazingly smooth compared to traditional back-plate with articulated plastic pillars. This is a really comfortable protection. The open armpits looks to offer great ventilation. Justermånen on shoulders and arms are good. The material does not rub even with bare-chested under. The waist belt is elastic and snap. The back plate can be removed from the vest to wash the jacket, which went to do without some strange things. Furthermore, it is possible to extend the cage with a certificate for the top and bottom vertebrae of the spine, such protection must be purchased for. The fit is pretty tight as it should be expressed. Overall, protection did its job with verve - Protected for all crashes and was not at all in the way when not needed. 

+ Beautiful and cool, compared with other similar products 

+ VPD-back plate is smooth, comfortable and protects good. Does the addition back pillar hot. 

+ Adjustable, adaptable 

- None 

Facit: Strongly recommended. 

Elbow 

Elbow, VPD Joint Elbow, is elastic and filled with VPD-deg. The wood on the arm and tightened with a justerband around the upper arm just above the elbow. These guards are comfortable, when they get hot so the dough is shaped by your elbow and it feels like someone poured dit protection. First time changing the protection most, and then retains a bit of "your" form and shape more quickly around the elbow. When the temperature is low, the material is tougher and not as smooth and soft as it is when it is hot. Both outdoor and body temperature therefore affects the function. At the bangs as the material hardens and protects like a hard plastic protection (although with less skyddsyta) while it is not at all in the way the rest of the time. For those with little överarmsarmmuskler so it can be said that protection has a tendency to slide down slightly since the adjustable sliding down toward the upper arm narrowest point, just above the elbow. 

+ Beautiful 

+ Protects well 

- Has a tendency to go down slightly and sit low. VPD-protection misses when the elbow. 

Facit: Comfortable protection with good protective effect. Sitter does not really remain in place. 

Shinguard 

Shin, Leg Bone VPD is dual and has a hard plastic protection for the shin, and a point around the knees going over in a VPD-element covering the top side of the knee and front of thigh. They come with a removable protection for the calf for those who want to use it. Overall, these protections, you guessed it, comfortable to wear compared with other manufacturers' leg protectors. The trail around the knee makes it easy to tread with these protection. It is an X-style buckle, which runs over the back of the calf and click it on the side of protection, which means that vadstorleken configured once, then always obtained the same tension around the calf. A bit like the goggles. Smart, we feel. Less clever is that the very knädelen of protection do not go around the knee enough without benskyddet sits in front of the leg more than around it. The effect will be banging head-on raised great, but as soon as it becomes a rolling action of the entire risk as defenses to rotate out of position and expose the knee. Not acceptable, unfortunately. We talked with POC on this and they said they will fix it for next year's model. 

+ VPD-points on the top of the knee protects your lap top and front of thigh better than any other leg protectors 

+ Ventilated 

+ Articulated 

- Does not remain without rotating out of position .. 

Facit: Potential to be the best benskyddet, if it just sat there. Wait for the 2010 model year.


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## westman (Jul 13, 2007)

The Beater said:


> I just put it through google translator and pasted parts here for those who are to lazy. Hey Westman did you ever try the Tee with a leatt? Do you still have the Tee and have not tried the Tee with a leatt and are able to do so could you let us know how it fits if at all.


Cool. Some fun mistranslations there but I think you get the hang of it.. :thumbsup:

Still got all the armor but not running a Leatt. What's interesting is that the POC guys didn't believe in the Leatt braces, thinking they did as much damage as they saved, by moving the damage point to the head instead of the neck.

The armor is really light as well, I weighed some of it :
* Spine VPD Tee size M - 1288g
(of which the VPD-spine was 470g)
* Joint VPD Elbow 130g a piece
* Helmet Cortex Flow size L/XL 978g

Hope you find the info useful!


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

I have a Spine VPD tee (the armour plated one, not the spine only) and the shorts and it's great.

Build quality is top notch as mentioned above and the cut doesn't interfere with movement like it's predecessor (a 661 assault suit) always did. I've yet to test it in a proper crash though, I think in protection terms it's at least the equal of the assault, probably better and certainly better put together, I've not burst any stitching yet.

I haven't had any problems with the spine protector riding up, but I am 6ft 4 so it may be it just isn't riding up far enough.
It was worth the extra £100 it cost over another Assault.

The shorts look and feel a bit strange. They aren't uncomfortable, they just took a while to get used to the extra width they have over other armoured shorts. Price wise they're no different to 661 stuff (in the UK), but fit was better so I can't recommend them enough. I have tested these in a crash and they do as good a job as any at protecting my bony ass waist. 

Knee pads I tried on but found the fit a bit off, they didn't persuade me over the Fox Systems I already had. I also tried on the gloves and thought they had too much padding in them, it's a personal thing but I stuck with Unabombers.

Elbows I've yet to find a pair in stock, so I'm still on 661 for them.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Fix the Spade said:


> I have a Spine VPD tee (the armour plated one, not the spine only) and the shorts and it's great.
> 
> I haven't had any problems with the spine protector riding up, but I am 6ft 4 so it may be it just isn't riding up far enough.
> It was worth the extra £100 it cost over another Assault.


At 6'4", what size VPD Tee are you running, and what's your weight?


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

godfather said:


> At 6'4", what size VPD Tee are you running, and what's your weight?


Large/Xlarge. I only weigh 185lbs and it's a (tiny bit) loose but the medium wasn't long enough for me. Sizing is on the long and skinny side.

POC's sizing is L/XL for anyone taller than 71in and I'm 76in, from the base of the skull to the top of my tail bone is roughly 28in, which is quite long propotionally. If I get right down in the racer tuck the back of my helmet just touches the top of the spine protector, but it really is arse in the air head on the bars for that to happen.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Sounds like the medium might be right for me at 6', 150lbs.


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## westman (Jul 13, 2007)

godfather said:


> Sounds like the medium might be right for me at 6', 150lbs.


That's probably fine. I'm 6'2 /187cm and 76kg and a Medium is fine for me.


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## Reign rider (Oct 30, 2008)

Thanks for all the help. I pick up my spine VPD tee a few weeks ago. 

Fits like a glove and you don't even know your wearing it. The shoulders are not to large but I've tested them already. I have yet to test out the spine protector and hope to never try it out.

The spine protection fits real well, I did not think it would be that flexible but after warming it up it just moves and flows with your body. 

What a great product. Thanks to all that gave me feedback. why can't all forums and posts be as constructive as this one.


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## moshemark (Mar 1, 2007)

Has anyone used this for XC/AM riding and compared it with the Spyder D3o Crew http://international.spyder.com/productdetail.new.asp?productid=140735? I would be wearing it with a Camelbak Mule.

What's more comfortable? What will breathe better in hot weather?

Thanks!
Mark



Reign rider said:


> Thanks for all the help. I pick up my spine VPD tee a few weeks ago.
> 
> Fits like a glove and you don't even know your wearing it. The shoulders are not to large but I've tested them already. I have yet to test out the spine protector and hope to never try it out.
> 
> ...


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

As mentioned in my original reply on this thread, i did the mega avalanche in my VPD Tee, a 38Km Enduro Race, in the blistering French Sunshine, for 1hr 25m.

My head was hot and sweaty, but my body was cool and god it was so much comfier than DIanese and 661 i've worn in the past.

It really is as god as everyone says!


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

does the VPD tee work with the leatt brace?


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

V.P. said:


> does the VPD tee work with the leatt brace?


POC have said they dont beleive that neckbraces do any good for the rider as it transfers the stress from one part to another, namely the neck, thus actually making it less safe to use.

So they havent made any attempts at making any neckbraces Leatt or a-stars or any other brand fit.

I am not getting into the whole neckbrace vs none here, this is a statement from POC themselves. if they are right or not, is not the point here


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## moshemark (Mar 1, 2007)

What was the temperature for most of the race?



Orange-Goblin said:


> As mentioned in my original reply on this thread, i did the mega avalanche in my VPD Tee, a 38Km Enduro Race, in the blistering French Sunshine, for 1hr 25m.
> 
> My head was hot and sweaty, but my body was cool and god it was so much comfier than DIanese and 661 i've worn in the past.
> 
> It really is as god as everyone says!


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

DeanH said:


> POC have said they dont beleive that neckbraces do any good for the rider as it transfers the stress from one part to another, namely the neck, thus actually making it less safe to use.
> 
> So they havent made any attempts at making any neckbraces Leatt or a-stars or any other brand fit.
> 
> I am not getting into the whole neckbrace vs none here, this is a statement from POC themselves. if they are right or not, is not the point here


Isnt that the idea? Transfer energy to another part of the body to prevent a catastrophic neck injury. I'd rather have a broken collarbone, dislocated shoulder, or even a spine injury further down than end up as a quad. Doesn't every bit of protective gear transfer energy in some way? Mostly spreading the energy over a larger area.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

DeanH said:


> POC have said they dont beleive that neckbraces do any good for the rider as it transfers the stress from one part to another, namely the neck, thus actually making it less safe to use.


Thats downright silly, its so obvious that it prevents hyperflexion right out of the box, not to mention the other advantages associated with the brace.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

DeanH said:


> POC have said they dont beleive that neckbraces do any good for the rider as it transfers the stress from one part to another, namely the neck, thus actually making it less safe to use.
> 
> So they havent made any attempts at making any neckbraces Leatt or a-stars or any other brand fit.
> 
> I am not getting into the whole neckbrace vs none here, this is a statement from POC themselves. if they are right or not, is not the point here


This is an incredible statement to make and also a stupid one from POC Ive read that from them myself, so what they are saying and you is that DR leatt who developed the first neck brace for Moto and extreme 2 wheeled moto sports and now Speedway and other forms of risky sports is not a creditable product!

Leatt alone is a spinal and nurospecialist as are many of the people involved in developing this product that has saved many who have used it since it's inception in the mid 2000s, tell this to moto stars, tell this people who have been saved by this device!

man this BS really is stupidity at is best! And for a company to come and and say that is just pure irresponsible on that basis alone I'll have second thoughts.

So youre saying the 5 years that leatt and BMW motorcorp don;t know what they're doing, have no research to back up they're product the one if not the only one on the market that do.

They're not copy cats, they haven;t made this product for marketing or piggybacked off others to just make money!

Alpine stars spent 6years developing and testing theyre version! How long have POC been around?

So F1 drivers since Aryton Senna have not been better protected since they enforced they're neck brace system, not one death since

WAKE up ,idiot!!!!

Tell this to Tara Lanes, Georges Jobe David Bailey myself and many others who have suffered spinal injuries

I'll take a broken collar bone for example over the injuries Ive suffered!

Unbelievable that you even quote that let alone believe that rubbish!


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

I agree that this statement isn't very professional or responsible. Although you never really know just how accurate a second hand reference is, or the exact context. I for one think that POC is a very innovative young company and they do some really cool out of the box thinking that results in some cool and effective product. I'm not ready to boycott them yet, but I'm not giving up my Leatt either.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Here ya boyucott might be overkill though I'd like to try some pads and the vest there's no where here yet that sells the stuff and i aint gonna risk the cost and get size wrong online, like you I won;t be giving up my Leatt I ride with it all the time or I don't ride now.

I did read that in Dirt or maybe it was on they're site, though maybe not those exact words, either way to post it is stupid stuff, people need to make aware decisions, if someone want to wear a brace or not its up to them I'm not into enforcement, but I am into people taking responsibility for they're own actions as well as manufactures! I like some of they're stuff to on the innovative side but I also think there's some hype to it. A season or too more and maybe that will be more clear.


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## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

im not advocating either point of view, but fact is.

Nobody has actually proven neckbraces work, for DH purposes.

That it helps in F1 there is no doubt, but the way crashes happen in F1 and DH, are not the same at all, they use a completely different type of neckbrace too, so to compare those i find is a bit irrelevant.

Personally i will be using a neckbrace, but i also find it odd that there are no real studies into the actual effectiveness of them in the DH application, if they actually make a difference.

We only have the manufacturers word for it, with no real scientific backup to prove anything DH related. 

Note again i AM going to be using a neckbrace myself as it seems logical to protect my neck more then the rest of my body.
But devils advocate says, no real proof anywhere it actually prevents neck injuries more then no brace.


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Wonder how this would pan out in a lawsuit. People are gonna get hurt.. Might be the reason why it's not offered.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

DeanH said:


> Nobody has actually proven neckbraces work, for DH purposes.


How does it not help, when its obvious that that it reduces the amount of head movement your head can do?

please explain!


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

*Spyder D30 are great but...*



moshemark said:


> Has anyone used this for XC/AM riding and compared it with the Spyder D3o Crew http://international.spyder.com/productdetail.new.asp?productid=140735? I would be wearing it with a Camelbak Mule.
> 
> What's more comfortable? What will breathe better in hot weather?
> 
> ...


It's more for AM stuff, very light and comfortable. I've been using them for the last 2 years. They are not cheap but a little price to pay for protection and comfort. I've got both top and bottom and love it. The stitching took a few ride to get use to but after that it very comfortable and breathable I wore it when it's 95degree.

I picked up the second set at the Sypder outlet store and I only paid 1/3 of what I paid for the first one.

I went down a few times and it works too, I felt the impact and the D30 went to work as it should, got up and walk away. I don't know if this would work well for a full on DH but it's better than nothing.


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## godfather (Jun 28, 2009)

Leatt are one of the few companies that have done extensive research and studies regarding spinal injuries at the neck. As far as documented proof that the brace is effective, the only way you will sway skeptics is to have the same rider crash in the same way under the same conditions with and without a brace. There's no way to know what would have happened "if". I highly doubt that there is enough information out there to study the effects of specific falls with and without braces, and the effects. It takes years and hundreds, even thousands of cases before trends begin to show.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

Well you could simulate the same conditions with and without a brace with crash test dummies, in a test lab. And I believe that Leatt has done just that, do a search on youtube for the videoes.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

DeanH said:


> im not advocating either point of view, but fact is.
> 
> Nobody has actually proven neckbraces work, for DH purposes.
> 
> ...


The Leatt brace is the only one specified for MTB use, all the copies and rest are moto, though the fact that AP*s spent 6years on developing they're system is not hearsay or neither not fact I don't know where you're getting your facts from, but in MTb especially in the last few years they're are numerous people who have stated on here and other places if not for they're Leatt they would be in my situation. For those who have used crashed it is clear, only people who have not tried and are sceptical say otherwise.

Apart from various threads where I've read some say they've suffered a broken collarbone, in ref to this it gets a lot of attention but is not clear on how this happened.

In Mtb my injury was suffered during a high speed and unusual crash which resulted in a major compression injury, most MTB crashes are hyperflextion and extension injuries this data is available from medical and hospital records, when I got injured I was asked immediately and here after cause I still don't remember allot of my time in hospital, mainly flashes, but my injury was logged as a moto incident, not bicycle, I know they were told by others it was MTB related but its on file now and I cannot change it, idiots. Helps they're stats against motorcycles I guess. But they thought I had injured myself from Equestrian or show jumping as my injury is very common in that sport, I should be dead or in a similar position to Christopher Reeve my injury was similar.

In some ways better cause I can walk, now ride and didn't suffer paralysis, though in some way harder because I can/could do most things to some level normally it was harder that I couldn't function as normal, not to go to in-depth on me . the point is that nearly all other neck braces on the market are compression device only!

So my point is if MTB highest risk is head fore and aft extension, like whiplash at speed your choice should be factored around that, the Leatt brace [Club GPX, Pro and Adventure] is the only one that clearly was developed to cover all these bases, not just compression.

If the forces are strong enough to cause a broken collar bone then at worst the brace has saved someone from severe if not life threatening injury!

However upon my research into people who raise this, there is a common theme to the collarbone injury, its not conclusive, but im suspect of people facts, FIT, incorrectly adjusted, mostly due to a poor Helmet choice, a common and often raised negative is I can't see far enough down the trail due to the rear member preventing my Helmet movement to look far ahead, a helmet pre designed and not around a neck brace system, nearly all MTB Helmets fall into this category, and by luck more than anything some fit for some people.

Troy Lee have raised they're game and developed and designed they're D3 around the neck brace system, good work, others need to catch up!

pto no short answers to this lol.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

p 2 of above lol.

I've spent 2.5 years recovering from this spinal injury, brain damage nuro cognitive and connotative issues, and its still ongoing I've still got a long road to go, would a neck brace have helped my situation, I'll never know, but I know this I will never ride my big bike and full face without it,.

I never know its on and it feels weird not wearing it, its part of my it as much a gloves shoes, I have a specific Helmet designed to work well with a neck brace and I have no problems with seeing down the trail, my neck stiffness is more an issue, but when I compare to my old Giro Remedy to compare it did feel restrictive to fore and aft ability.

I've had many injuries from Moto X to MTB over the years and in my experience and opinion! This is one of the best things to happen in our sport, Leatt has the time and the years behind it now, the rest have only been around for a short time. Just don't state things as factual when ya haven't clearly done your research, I spent a year before I was injured researching the neck braces back in 07 they were rare in DH, over the last 2.5 years I've spent a load of time researching neck braces and anything new to market as well as MTB FS helmets.

If I can educate one person and I know I've got through to more than that already, then I've helped someone save themselves from a 100 to 1 potential situation that could affect not only them, but family friends work life etc..

We take for granted that we ride with little risk the fact is our tracks our bikes the technology is moving faster than we are and a lot of our equipment, e.g. some of the MTB FS helmets have not had a serious update for some years.

Body Armour is still some way behind compatibility with systems braces etc, in moto allot have moved to work with protection helmets coy have also developed [not all but reputable ones] to have they're products be compatible to provide a complete safe and improved overall protection system.

Allot of MTB people and companies need to get they're head out of the sand, stop trying to force people to use they're product cause it will work only with they're own stuff.

Realise that a bigger market can be had with increased compatibility and safety and credibility is had by being as functional with any option a consumer chooses and is safe adheres to the highest stds that are available for ex the new DH ATSM std is the first true DH std,

The std CPSC and ATSM covers XC lids as well how does that make a FS Helmet under those stds safe for us really?

A XC lid is designed to break on impact to fold, a FF helmet has many other requirements. Focusing on weight alone for sales like most have does not improve safety stds, the TLD new D3 had to gain weight to meet the new DH ATSM std, and is actually heavier than the TLD D2 a good thing and about time, its also heavier than my Moto X lid, yet my Moto for example is one of the most impact protective designs on the market today.

My head cannot affords not to have that level of protection. I actually don;t know how I'd go if I had a hit, my head still is tender on one side and I still get alot of nuro what I call electrical notifications depending on how stressed on tired or stiff my spine and neck become, if I bang my head for example ya better not be around, the green man comes out and I'm likely to tear someones head off! LOL its scary for me as I have no control when my head goes off. Doct would kill me if he know I was on a big bike again!

pto lol..


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Part 3

Though to be fair I’m not at full spd I’m still limited to how much time I have on the bike and the number of runs few that I can handle, its my rehab for the mental side ass well as physical .

Its so easy to listen to your mate who's rarking on about how tough he is, that we don't go the speeds of moto Ive had friends die on moto bikes at less than 20mph through head injuries suffered in a crash its easy to make these statements when you have not suffered yet yourself. Its like being robbed or a family member who might get cancer until it directly affects you think ahh BS everyone's over exaggerating. 


End of the day, S h i t happens, I personally do this because of the risk the enjoyment and thrills I get from riding and its who I am I'm not gonna stop until I die, but at the same time I’m not going to put a gun to my head with one bullet in the chamber and find out how many times I can pull the trigger.

I’ve used my nine lives. People need to make they're own choice but what ever choice ya make, at least do some research the www is not just to get on MTBR much of this stuff is out they're so then you can decide what you want, ride with no Helmet and be cool or make good choices.

I agree they’re is allot of poor info out they’re allot of misinformation and why I’ve been quit critical analytical plus raise that regarding many of the newer designs coming out for lack of supporting info and also a lack of a STDs system for neck braces!

Leatt have been the only company currently who make a neck brace advocating and trying to gain support for this, again that says allot to they're credibility over many of the other companies, who even on other products they make either don’t list of meet existing stds for a lot for they're products, that info is a critical selling point and should be one of the first things on ya website not a marketing spiel and fancy interactive BS, I go to the manufacturers for facts not fancy looks, I don't do business with companies that focus on that, gotta say this is one disappointment with POC's site!


Peace dude, enjoy the ride!


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## Orange-Goblin (Jan 27, 2008)

moshemark said:


> What was the temperature for most of the race?


It was a 25 - 28 degree day at Alpe D'Huez, though the first 4km or so is on the glacier, which is a fair bit colder at 10,800 foot i'm guessing!


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

MTB Specific Leatts due soon

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6794442&posted=1#post6794442..


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## moshemark (Mar 1, 2007)

I assume you meant Celsius. I ride in much warmer weather--typically 30-33 degrees Celsius (in Fahrenheit, from the mid 80's to the low 90's). Have you ever worn it for a 1-2 hour climb in that temperature range? Did it feel hot?



Orange-Goblin said:


> It was a 25 - 28 degree day at Alpe D'Huez, though the first 4km or so is on the glacier, which is a fair bit colder at 10,800 foot i'm guessing!


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Well Summer here is over now but I was wearing mine in late 20s and 30 plus degree C here and pushing uphill, manual Dh shuttles I'd sweat bit onto my Leatt, but it never felt like it restricted air flow, I never know its even on riding now and I 've even done trail work with it on which is not so good ya really not supposed to walk around in em without ya helmet on if ya did trip and fall over there is the possibility ya could hurt ya self 

Its much less restrictive than pads or body amour imo and takes a few rides to get used to, fit is key, people are imo over analyzing it, to justify it if ya new how much my injury has cost me over 2.5 years its a no brainer at a cost even to try! 

I rec going to a dealer though who knows how to adj and fit properly, it wouldn't be hard to mess up even though its got clear instructions:thumbsup:


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

I too, am looking for more of am AM/XC application. At 5'7 165 lbs, 33" waist I am guessing that the small sizing would be best accross the board? I am wondering if POC approves of the trimming of the backpad, as I suspect with my shorter torso that the "riding up" problem would be somting I would need to address by trimming the back pad length? Also, with shorter legs, I am wondering how the bones knee and shin pads compare w/ other manufactures in terms of length and fit? I would likely remove the calf padding as well for the least rub when climbing. Seems that the soft knee pad option would be good providing it stays in place. Any input?


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## 1+1 (Dec 20, 2006)

rdhfreethought said:


> I have everything except the crash pad shorts:
> 
> 1. POC Helmet. Overall rating 10/10. Love it! biggest concern is heat but its still 8/10 for air flow. Its mostly hot around the jaw/cheek. I have had one head first landing at Whistler on it. No problems except I couldnt breath right for about 5 minutes, and the visor is permanently bent.
> 
> ...


i know this is an old tread but got a qstn about the poc spine vpd. i'm 5'8". shold i get the small? cheers
ps typing with 1 hnd pls excuse the grammar & sp. tore my rotator cuff


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