# What are the easiest to bleed brakes?



## hansum (Sep 26, 2011)

I have a set of forumua "the ones" (old version) they are tricky to bleed.

Im looking at getting a new set of brakes.

I want to buy a set that are really easy to bleed.

What are the easiest to bleed brakes?


----------



## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

shimano.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Ones that have thread-in fittings for bleeding syringes on the caliper AND lever. Formula, Avid, ect.


----------



## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

hopes are pretty easy. all you need is a bottle of fluid and a bit of hose to attach to the bleed port. I bled my rear in about 10 min at a race.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

pizon said:


> hopes are pretty easy. all you need is a bottle of fluid and a bit of hose to attach to the bleed port. I bled my rear in about 10 min at a race.


Yep, no kit or syringes needed with Hopes. Open the resrvoir at the brake lever, loosen the screw at the caliper, pour your new fluid in, while the old drains out. A tube for the caliper end is needed to send the old fluid into a catch bottle, and also allows you to see any air bubbles that might be coming out with the fluid.


----------



## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

plus they use dot fluid, pretty easy to source if in a jam - a visit to hardware store for tube + auto store for the fluid, you're good to go


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Let's call that "moto style". You pour fluid in the reservoir and pump the lever to force it out the bleed screw on the caliper. I prefer a threaded bleed port to an open reservoir because it's faster and more thorough. Moto style is fighting gravity and I've had difficult bubbles that couldn't come out without back-bleeding. That's pushing fluid up from the caliper which requires someone syphoning it out of the reservoir. It's also slow to pour, pump, repeat.

Wih a full syringe threaded to the caliper and an empty one on the lever you can quickly push a large volume of fluid through. Then you can push some back down to flush any remaining air out. You can even apply vacuum to suck air out of solution. It's quick and always perfect. I've owned both style brakes but will never again own open reservoirs. Shimano even changed systems when updating their lever for 2011.

I also prefer DOT over mineral oil becasue any gas station has it and I had trouble getting mineral oil while traveling with Shimano brakes. So I say Formula and Avid are easiest. Avid sells a bleed kit with 2 syringes, hoses, and threaded fittings.


----------



## gretch (Aug 27, 2010)

I have owned 4 sets of Hope brakes in the past 10 years and they have been a set and forget system for the most part... easy to bleed if necessary, but they rarely need any maintenance.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> ^Let's call that "moto style". You pour fluid in the reservoir and pump the lever to force it out the bleed screw on the caliper. I prefer a threaded bleed port to an open reservoir because it's faster and more thorough. Moto style is fighting gravity and I've had difficult bubbles that couldn't come out without back-bleeding. That's pushing fluid up from the caliper which requires someone syphoning it out of the reservoir. It's also slow to pour, pump, repeat.
> 
> Wih a full syringe threaded to the caliper and an empty one on the lever you can quickly push a large volume of fluid through. Then you can push some back down to flush any remaining air out. You can even apply vacuum to suck air out of solution. It's quick and always perfect. I've owned both style brakes but will never again own open reservoirs. Shimano even changed systems when updating their lever for 2011.
> 
> I also prefer DOT over mineral oil becasue any gas station has it and I had trouble getting mineral oil while traveling with Shimano brakes. So I say Formula and Avid are easiest. Avid sells a bleed kit with 2 syringes, hoses, and threaded fittings.


Good point about trapped air. I stand my bike up and unbolt the caliper so that the lever is much higher, and the hose is straight with no bends that could hold an air bubble. It's also good to remove the brake pads so you don't get any fluid on them.


----------



## pizon (Jul 7, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> ^Let's call that "moto style". You pour fluid in the reservoir and pump the lever to force it out the bleed screw on the caliper. I prefer a threaded bleed port to an open reservoir because it's faster and more thorough. Moto style is fighting gravity and I've had difficult bubbles that couldn't come out without back-bleeding. That's pushing fluid up from the caliper which requires someone syphoning it out of the reservoir. It's also slow to pour, pump, repeat.
> 
> Wih a full syringe threaded to the caliper and an empty one on the lever you can quickly push a large volume of fluid through. Then you can push some back down to flush any remaining air out. You can even apply vacuum to suck air out of solution. It's quick and always perfect. I've owned both style brakes but will never again own open reservoirs. Shimano even changed systems when updating their lever for 2011.
> 
> I also prefer DOT over mineral oil becasue any gas station has it and I had trouble getting mineral oil while traveling with Shimano brakes. So I say Formula and Avid are easiest. Avid sells a bleed kit with 2 syringes, hoses, and threaded fittings.


that does sound like a more thorough system, I prefer the simplicity of hopes, not everyone travels with a full bleed kit ready to go...


----------



## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

howardyudoing said:


> shimano.


...........
+1


----------



## Triple8Sol (Aug 21, 2009)

Saint. Mineral oil is way less messy than brake fluid too.


----------



## hansum (Sep 26, 2011)

Hopes sound really good.

Thats interesting about shimano brakes , they do not use dot fluid... just mineral oil... is it a special shimano mineral oil? or just any oil? can it withstand head like dot fluid?


----------



## recitio (Dec 22, 2011)

I always just use Shimano's own mineral oil. 

Shimano Saints are the most reliable brakes bar none, so it works for them.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Any mineral oil can work.


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

recitio said:


> ...........
> +1


+2
They are ridiculously easy to bleed.


----------



## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

recitio said:


> I always just use Shimano's own mineral oil.
> 
> Shimano Saints are the most reliable brakes bar none, so it works for them.


Mine were not reliable what so ever. I went to Hopes and I will not be making a change back any time soon!

-Brett


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Saints


----------



## Drth Vadr (Jul 24, 2009)

shiver me timbers said:


> saints





pinkrobe said:


> +2
> they are ridiculously easy to bleed.





triple8sol said:


> saint. Mineral oil is way less messy than brake fluid too.





recitio said:


> ...........
> +1





howardyudoing said:


> shimano.


.....+6


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

This type of opinion gathering is usually screwed up because people tend to vote for what they own, even if they haven't tried anything else. 

I've bled Hayes and Hopes, and the Hopes were very much easier. I won't comment on other brands except to say I have watched the video for Avid bleeds and it looks very similar to Hayes.


----------



## hansum (Sep 26, 2011)

smilinsteve said:


> This type of opinion gathering is usually screwed up because people tend to vote for what they own, even if they haven't tried anything else.


Its true, all the time on forums people rave about products and mostly justifying to themselves the money they spent. Still there is some useful posts here and I didnt actually know that shimanos didnt use dot fluid, or how easy hope brakes were to bleed.


----------



## Mr Horse (Jul 14, 2011)

Do a youtube investigation of available bleed instruction video and draw your own conclusion.

I do know that the Hayes video made the process look pretty casual and that their product has the bleed nipple on the caliper so that you don't need to buy a bleed kit.


----------



## howardyudoing (Mar 31, 2010)

well then...

Shimano Vs. Avid (based on my own experiences)

first thing's first. For my shimano brakes, I didn't have to call up all the local shops to find the proper bleed kit and then drive an hour each way to obtain it. Bleed kit cost me $40 + 110 miles. ( I couldn't wait for shipping) Once had, the prep work necessary for DOT fluid is much more extensive than mineral oil. DOT fluid likes to destroy stuff, like paint, so placing rags on my bike and floor were a good idea. Once both syringes are attached with the proper amount of fluid in them, the push and pull of the plungers begin (hell of a lot easier with the front brake than the rear. This might seem ideal. but the only reason the syringes are really necessary, is to keep the DOT fluid contained. It wasn't any easier to remove the air bubbles from my avid brakes. Now the clean up, I couldn't just dispose of DOT in the trash or drain.

Shimano saints, remove reservoir cover (or attach funnel). Attach bleed tube with waste container (I zip tie the little bags that come with the brakes to the tube) to the nipple on the caliper and loosen the nipple 1/4 turn. Add fluid in the reservoir and pump lever until you see new fluid come out of the caliper. Knock the lines and caliper with a screwdriver handle to get rid of any air bubbles (they will float up and out of the line). Tighten the nipple, top off fluid, close cover, and wipe area clean. With mineral oil, I could just dilute it and pour it down the drain. Clean up was easy.

In the end.... Shimano


----------



## Mr Horse (Jul 14, 2011)

howardyudoing said:


> well then...
> 
> Shimano Vs. Avid (based on my own experiences)
> 
> first thing's first. For my shimano brakes, I didn't have to call up all the local shops to find the proper bleed kit and then drive an hour each way to obtain it. Bleed kit cost me $40 + 110 miles. ( I couldn't wait for shipping) Once had, the prep work necessary for DOT fluid is much more extensive than mineral oil. DOT fluid likes to destroy stuff, like paint, so placing rags on my bike and floor were a good idea. Once both syringes are attached with the proper amount of fluid in them, the push and pull of the plungers begin (hell of a lot easier with the front brake than the rear. This might seem ideal. but the only reason the syringes are really necessary, is to keep the DOT fluid contained. It wasn't any easier to remove the air bubbles from my avid brakes. Now the clean up, I couldn't just dispose of DOT in the trash or drain.


Selling a bleed kit seperately does kind of come across as a way to screw the customer out of a few more dollars.

I bought a universal kit from PP. Half the price and it comes with everything you need for any brake.

Personally, I don't think dealing with DOT fluid is that big of a deal as long as your careful. I'd be interested in hearing the pros/cons of mineral oil since Magura and Shimano use it as a brake fluid.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

howardyudoing said:


> Shimano saints, remove reservoir cover (or attach funnel). Attach bleed tube with waste container (I zip tie the little bags that come with the brakes to the tube) to the nipple on the caliper and loosen the nipple 1/4 turn. Add fluid in the reservoir and pump lever until you see new fluid come out of the caliper. Knock the lines and caliper with a screwdriver handle to get rid of any air bubbles (they will float up and out of the line). Tighten the nipple, top off fluid, close cover, and wipe area clean. With mineral oil, I could just dilute it and pour it down the drain. Clean up was easy.
> 
> In the end.... Shimano


That sounds like the Hope procedure exactly, except Hope's use DOT not mineral oil.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

http://forums.mtbr.com/brake-time/dot-fluid-vs-mineral-oil-432610.html


----------



## mtnryder56 (Sep 13, 2008)

I've had Avid Juicy's, Avid Code CR's, and Magura MT's. 

The avid's are the easiest, and I still haven't been able to properly bleed the Magura's. And neither have 2 out of 3 shops that I went to after I failed.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

mtnryder56 said:


> I still haven't been able to properly bleed the Maguras.


Interesting since every new style Magura I've squeezed felt kinda mushy, including the pair on a friend's bike who is an excellent mechanic. I just assumed it was how they are designed to feel, relationship of slave to master cylinder and such.

As for the "having to buy a bleed kit" thing: I see it as a tool, a bike specific tool just like the many others I've had to buy to maintain my fleet. A little up-front money to be able to easily and properly work on my bikes.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> As for the "having to buy a bleed kit" thing: I see it as a tool, a bike specific tool just like the many others I've had to buy to maintain my fleet. A little up-front money to be able to easily and properly work on my bikes.


Right if you need a bleed kit then its just another tool, but often a bleed kit can be improvised, and usually, bleed kits are way over priced. Typically you get a piece of tubing, a plastic bottle, a syringe, maybe a fitting or two for 40 bucks. 
Even Hope sells bleed kits and all I needed to bleed my hopes was a length of tubing from Home Depot to connect to the caliper nipple. A zip tie and an empty disposable water bottle completed the "kit".


----------



## DeanH (Jan 9, 2008)

ive had and used formulas, avids hopes and shimanos.

I service it myself having working in a bikeshop etc.

And i found the shimanos win on easy bleeds. every time.


----------



## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

Why is it that when I type "DOT fluid vs. mineral oil" I do not get the thread titled exactly as that? Why?

This is why I can never find anything. Stupid sorry search engine.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

aBicycle said:


> Why is it that when I type "DOT fluid vs. mineral oil" I do not get the thread titled exactly as that? Why?
> 
> This is why I can never find anything. Stupid sorry search engine.


I think the MTBR search only goes back a year or something like that. And yes it sucks and is stupid. But if you put the same term into google search that thread is the first hit


----------



## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

smilinsteve said:


> Yep, no kit or syringes needed with Hopes. Open the resrvoir at the brake lever, loosen the screw at the caliper, pour your new fluid in, while the old drains out. A tube for the caliper end is needed to send the old fluid into a catch bottle, and also allows you to see any air bubbles that might be coming out with the fluid.


old aaints the same way too


----------



## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

if you can squeeze a lever you can bleed shimanos. another vote for them.


----------



## Buggyr333 (Apr 8, 2010)

Never bled hopes, but the easiest brakes I have ever bled are shimanos. Although I do feel like they need to be bled more often than a lot of other companies. NBD since it takes about 5 minutes per side if you have the tools for the job.


----------



## scmalex (Apr 24, 2010)

I've only bled magura, avid and shimano. I could bleed at least 4 shimano brakes in the time it takes me to bleed 1 avid or 2 maguras.


----------



## JMUSuperman (Jun 14, 2008)

I own several sets of Avids, two sets of new XT's (same bleed as the new Saint), and a set of Hope V2's. 

Bleeding the Avid's is simple enough but I loathe having to pre-bleed the fluid. It seems like it takes forever. But I've found the pre-bleed to be the most important step to a fantastic bleed. My experience is that it's easier to get a great bleed on the older Juicy systems than on the Elixers. Although, I'm running the new XO Trails on one bike and they have been absolutely fantastic. All of my Avids take the most time to bleed.

My Shimano ones are simple. Super simple. Plus you can get mineral oil at any grocery store and dispose of it pretty much anywhere. The Saints use an identical procedure to my XT's, super quick, and very clean. The XT's have tons of power, and I'm sure that the Saints have even more. I'd love to spend some time with the new Saints with the new IceTech rotors.

My Hopes are fantastic. They always have extra power and great modulation. Plus I love the way that they look. The bleed procedure is simple enough. I just keep a container in the garage that holds all the used DOT 5.1 fluid, and then just take it to the recycling center in my town when it's full. Pretty painless. The only downside is that you are supposed to put a new reservoir cap on the Hopes after every bleed. I've only done this once in 3 years of bleeding, and it's been fine for me. I do think that these brakes have the best lever feel of any of my systems, perhaps due to the Goodrich hoses you get with them.

In the end both the Hopes and Shimanos have the easiest bleeds. Mineral oil is easier to source and handle, but the Hopes have a better feel to me in use. If I was in the market I'd probably lean towards the Shimano, but I won't be selling my Hopes anytime soon.


----------



## Full Trucker (Mar 23, 2004)

b-kul said:


> if you can squeeze a lever you can bleed shimanos. another vote for them.


And if you can shoot heroin you can bleed an Avid.



JMUSuperman said:


> I own several sets of Avids, two sets of new XT's (same bleed as the new Saint), and a set of Hope V2's...


^^This guy's post has probably the best info in the whole thread. Strong work.



JMUSuperman said:


> All of my Avids take the most time to bleed...


I have owned Shimano XT, XTR, and Saint brakes over 2 (or is it 3?) different generations, multiple Hayes products from the early 2000s to recently, and now own my first set of Avids-a pair of Code Rs. I had to replace a brake line on the rear this week (it was too short to run the wider bars I had just purchased) and definitely found the process to be slightly more time consuming than Shimano and Hayes rituals I've gone through in the past. That said, I would argue that *"takes longer to bleed"* does not necessarily mean *"more difficult to bleed"*-I found the process to be quite easy and by following the step-by-step instructions included with the bleed kit I have a factory-solid bleed even after replacing an entire brake line.

Further: Shimano Saints of the 2009 generation were the most difficult to bleed for me. Dang air bubbles would get trapped in all the crevices of the caliper, and it was painstakingly tough to chase them all out. That said, those brakes did feel amazeballs. Not that the Codes don't, they're also pretty rad.

Man... bike stuff is just so GOOD these days. Tough to go wrong no matter what you buy.


----------



## scmalex (Apr 24, 2010)

Full Trucker said:


> And if you can shoot heroin you can bleed an Avid.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> Any mineral oil can work.


No, it can't.


----------



## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Why not?


----------

