# Who's buying $10,000 plus bikes. Let's see them. (Retail bikes only. PLEASE NO Builds)



## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

Post a picture of your $10,000 plus bike that you bought retail. Where do you ride, and how often do you use your baller bike?

Trying to get a feel how many of these bikes manufacturers are actually moving.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Nobody who bought such a bike has time to post here. They are too busy fixing people's teeth or doing shoulder surgery.


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## BuzzinHornets (Sep 17, 2005)

Lol, sure. You want my address and garage code too?


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

BuzzinHornets said:


> Lol, sure. You want my address and garage code too?


Makes perfect sense. 

No one posts pictures of their bike on this site without the garage code and address.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

I know it's supposed to be $10K+, but at $9700 this should qualify since I added a $400 dropper (not pictured - it's x brand to match the x carbon). I think I got a heck of a deal.


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## TOGALOCK (8 mo ago)

Weird thread idea. I’m a little sad that I fell $500 short to be able to join in. Oh well, maybe next time.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

TOGALOCK said:


> Weird thread idea. I’m a little sad that I fell $500 short to be able to join in. Oh well, maybe next time.


Trying to find out how many people are actually going into a retailer and buying these bikes that all the manufacturers are selling now (and have been for quite some time).

Not sure why it's weird.

If no one responds, how many S-Works is specialized actually producing each year to sell? - as an example.


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## rcrocha (Jul 7, 2008)

noapathy said:


> I know it's supposed to be $10K+, but at $9700 this should qualify since I added a $400 dropper (not pictured - it's x brand to match the x carbon). I think I got a heck of a deal.


Is it for sale? I will give you $10,500 for it so that I can then repost it on this list. Address and garage code to follow.


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

Normalization of outrageously priced bikes.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

I didn't pay retail and as the msrp is in Canadian dollars it probably wouldn't count


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## NuckaMan (Dec 10, 2007)

In my neck of the woods, southern CA, $10K+ road bikes are sold regularly. $10K+ mountain bikes, not so much (outside of ebikes). Most shops carry a couple halo builds for display but buyers are typically purchased by shop owners or maybe through some discount program they have with the manufacturer. Due to concentration on wealth here, sure they move a few high-level builds, but $3500-$7000 is the sweet spot for mountain bike sales (used to be at least, slowed down considerably).


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

NuckaMan said:


> In my neck of the woods, southern CA, $10K+ road bikes are sold regularly. $10K+ mountain bikes, not so much (outside of ebikes). Most shops carry a couple halo builds for display but buyers are typically purchased by shop owners or maybe through some discount program they have with the manufacturer. Due to concentration on wealth here, sure they move a few high-level builds, but $3500-$7000 is the sweet spot for mountain bike sales (used to be at least, slowed down considerably).


I recall reading about a sales technique, whereby a shop can display an outrageously expensive option to make the moderately priced option seem like a good deal in comparison. The goal is not to sell the expensive item, but make the less expensive one sell better.


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## Steewen (Mar 1, 2021)

TOGALOCK said:


> Weird thread idea. I’m a little sad that I fell $500 short to be able to join in. Oh well, maybe next time.


Yeah, get a job, hippie. No-one wants to see your cheap-ass sub 10k bike.

Yes, this is a really strange thread.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

I am priced out of $10K bikes so i guess i will have to stop riding.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

I don't think this forum is going to have those type of people. Most serious riders, if they are going to spend that kind of money aren't going to get an off the shelf bike. Those are usually wealthy people who just buy it because they can and then it just hangs in their garage, or they ride around the cul-de-sac with their kids. I do have a Moots gravel bike that is in that cost range, but it was built from the frame up by me. If I am paying that much for a bike, I want it set up to my exact specifications and set up by me, because I don't trust anyone to work on my bikes.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Why are high priced bikes such a taboo thing with some of you? Strange obsession. 

I love see those top-end bikes at my local shop. Nothing wrong with admiring things that may be out of reach for the majority. Kind of like seeing that Audi R8 Coupe in the parking lot.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

ljsmith said:


> I don't think this forum is going to have those type of people. Most serious riders, if they are going to spend that kind of money aren't going to get an off the shelf bike. Those are usually wealthy people who just buy it because they can and then it just hangs in their garage, or they ride around the cul-de-sac with their kids. I do have a Moots gravel bike that is in that cost range, but it was built from the frame up by me. If I am paying that much for a bike, I want it set up to my exact specifications and set up by me, because I don't trust anyone to work on my bikes.


I kind of agree.
I think the MTBR forums are for people that, even though they don't have anything to contribute to the topic at hand, they still respond.

I'm out.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Zerort said:


> I kind of agree.
> I think the MTBR forums are for people that, even though they don't have anything to contribute to the topic at hand, they still respond.
> 
> I'm out.


You can try posting your query with a lack of smarminess.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Zerort said:


> I kind of agree.
> I think the MTBR forums are for people that, even though they don't have anything to contribute to the topic at hand, they still respond.
> 
> I'm out.


I agree with LJ. This forum has a different demographic than what you're looking for. We are just a bunch of enthusiasts and most of us build our bikes from the frame up. There are some top earners that post here, but that's not the vast majority.

My shop sold one 10k Cannondale bike years ago to a mechanical engineer.


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## bmwpowere36m3 (May 14, 2007)

Pivot SB Pro XT/XTR... $10k if you round to the nearest ten-thousands.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Zerort said:


> Trying to find out how many people are actually going into a retailer and buying these bikes that all the manufacturers are selling now (and have been for quite some time).
> 
> Not sure why it's weird.
> 
> If no one responds, how many S-Works is specialized actually producing each year to sell? - as an example.


Asking on a website will not give you any idea. Start reading the trade publications (i.e. bicycle retailer) if you want to get an idea.


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## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

It was the Wireless Shifting & Seat Post on top of the $2500 wheels that pushed it over the top...First new Mt Bike in 25 years (first eBike though), boy have things changed a little.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Crankout said:


> I love see those top-end bikes at my local shop. Nothing wrong with admiring things that may be out of reach for the majority. Kind of like seeing that Audi R8 Coupe in the parking lot.


That $10k bike might be a contribution to some nice R8 wheels.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

The Scalpel I sold earlier this year was close. $9600, apparently, in 2015. Retail was $8800 or so, but the shop installed R1R brakes. I was the second owner. The gent I bought it from offered to fly it to me on his personal plane. Nice dude.


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

There are far too many haters on all sites to post this kind of bike. The haters will hate on your build, or whatever else about you or your bike. I made a reference to my $10,000 bike on a joke thread and all I got was hate. I never gave the haters a picture of the bike because they are just there to bash. Real riders build their bikes for the trails that they ride, not to impress the bro crowd, or to get to a certain price. Enjoy the ride, whatever it costs!


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

LarryMagoo said:


> View attachment 2005030
> 
> 
> It was the Wireless Shifting & Seat Post on top of the $2500 wheels that pushed it over the top...First new Mt Bike in 25 years (first eBike though), boy have things changed a little.


Except your 2000 watt, 60 pound, handle throttle monstrosity is not a bike, nor an ebike, it is an e moto. You are the poster child for those that express concern about the slippery slope of people showing up with ever more powerful “ebikes”. Please don’t ride that thing on bike trails, as it is not a bike. 

“This and the Luna Apex are the first production ebikes to have off-road only levels of throttle power combined with torque sensing pedal assist. The massive power you get is far above the lackluster pedal-assist-only, feeble drive designed for the 250 watt European Market. The Ultra Mag max was built for Luna Cycles for the US market to go on bad-ass bikes like the Apollo. It is made from magnesium for light savings and uses our own controller for high power, reliability, and smooth power and torque sensor delivery no other Bafang powered production bike offers. Many controller settings are also end-user programmable!”

“This is a quality bike to start with and with high end spec components all the way around (list of components are below). This is a bike lovers ebike.


Mag Ultra - Exclusive version of Ultra Motor made just for Luna made from Magnesium that is 3lbs lighter than stock model *peak power 2000 watts*
SRAM Eagle SX 12 speed drive-train
Rockshox Debonair Suspension
Maxxis Minnion 27.5 2.8 inch tires 60p
True 40 mile range, far more if you use pedal assist
New Custom Torque sensor that has been professionally tuned by Luna for the most efficient power output available
Luna Fusion Battery Pack 21ah 52v LG MJ1 Cells
1100 watt hours for really long range (see our article on calculating range watt hours)
Space Age, custom designed, beautiful Carbon frame
Uses the popular 27.5 diameter 3 inch wide tire format (27.5 plus tires)
Lightweight: 60 lb total. 48 lb on the frame, 12 lb battery
*Features both thumb throttle *and pedal assist with various settings for different power levels”


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## beeristasty (Jan 22, 2004)

Where do I ride: mainly on the road
How often: whenever the weather is nice and I have the time
Garage code: 1-2-3-4-5


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

rcrocha said:


> Is it for sale? I will give you $10,500 for it so that I can then repost it on this list. Address and garage code to follow.


Aw geez. I get these lowball offers all the time. Everybody knows bike values only go up after purchase with all the shortages. I guess I could let 'er go for that. DM me your SSN and DOB for verification purposes so I know you're not a scammer.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Cary said:


> Except your 2000 watt, 60 pound, handle throttle monstrosity is not an ebike, it is an e moto.
> 
> “This and the Luna Apex are the first production ebikes to have off-road only levels of throttle power combined with torque sensing pedal assist. The massive power you get is far above the lackluster pedal-assist-only, feeble drive designed for the 250 watt European Market. The Ultra Mag max was built for Luna Cycles for the US market to go on bad-ass bikes like the Apollo. It is made from magnesium for light savings and uses our own controller for high power, reliability, and smooth power and torque sensor delivery no other Bafang powered production bike offers. Many controller settings are also end-user programmable!”
> 
> ...


At least it's got a Barzo out back...you know, for better rolling resistance on those longer XC rides. 😂😂😂


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

It goes on most trails outside NA. Without accessories about 6500.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Not me man! Some of my riding cronies have for sure.

Haven't purchased a new bike since ~2009 (1st 29 hard tail).

Most I've spent on a build so far is around $2.5k (after selling my old 2014 FS frame). The total cost excluded transplanting wheel set from my old FS.


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## Stahr_Nut (Nov 7, 2006)

Ironic you would start this thread today. Just last week I picked up a used Subaru Outback for $11,500. So in order to conform to the bro culture mentality that "you're not a real cyclist unless your bike costs more than your car" I started shopping for a $12,000 Ibis Exie over the weekend.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

My Ripmo falls short at around 9K but my Levo SL got there with custom wheels. However, I vowed- no more bikes for a year, at least.


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## XC Only (Jul 9, 2007)

$10k bicycles are silly. I’ve got a $12k Ducati also, but would never spend even half that on a bicycle. I ride my pedal bikes 4 times more than I ride my motorcycles, but the value proposition is simply not there for bicycles to cost so much.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

ahhhhh is this the gear shaming thread this week?

I don't own a ten grand bike, and likely never will.. but it's clear some folk are jealous


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

None of these are plus bikes.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Fine. I’ll bite.
We are one arrival.
Allied echo.
Both pictured here.
Not a dentist.


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## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

Cary said:


> Except your 2000 watt, 60 pound, handle throttle monstrosity is not a bike, nor an ebike, it is an e moto. You are the poster child for those that express concern about the slippery slope of people showing up with ever more powerful “ebikes”. Please don’t ride that thing on bike trails, as it is not a bike.
> 
> “This and the Luna Apex are the first production ebikes to have off-road only levels of throttle power combined with torque sensing pedal assist. The massive power you get is far above the lackluster pedal-assist-only, feeble drive designed for the 250 watt European Market. The Ultra Mag max was built for Luna Cycles for the US market to go on bad-ass bikes like the Apollo. It is made from magnesium for light savings and uses our own controller for high power, reliability, and smooth power and torque sensor delivery no other Bafang powered production bike offers. Many controller settings are also end-user programmable!”
> 
> ...


It's every bit an eBike that I love to ride...I raced XC in the 80's & 90's and I'm now 71 lets see how much riding you're doing at 71...all those specs are on a stock Apollo....nothing left from stock except the frame...I R&R'ed everything else...


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## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

XC Only said:


> View attachment 2005042
> 
> $10k bicycles are silly. I’ve got a $12k Ducati also, but would never spend even half that on a bicycle. I ride my pedal bikes 4 times more than I ride my motorcycles, but the value proposition is simply not there for bicycles to cost so much.



What a beautiful Guzzi!


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

"No Builds"

If I'm dropping $10k on a bike, it's not going to be some stock bike with whatever kit Special-Ed decides I want, it's going to be a build with exactly the parts I want on it.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Ogre said:


> "No Builds"
> 
> If I'm dropping $10k on a bike, it's not going to be some stock bike with whatever kit Special-Ed decides I want, it's going to be a build with exactly the parts I want on it.


Buying a new bike has changed over the last 5 years a ton. Nearly every new bike is a "build" with the online builders most use these days.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Cary said:


> Except your...


His bike is a bike by every definition. If the top posted just wanted push bikes they should have said as much.

This is last I checked MTB review and eMTBs are in fact... MTBs. There is even a subform on the site for it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

numbnuts said:


> Buying a new bike has changed over the last 5 years a ton. Nearly every new bike is a "build" with the online builders most use these days.


You could buy $10k bikes from the factory 5 years ago too. 

But why would you? Most of my bikes get upgraded or parts swapped fairly quickly. I don't even get this "Stock config only" idea. What's the point?


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

At least if you drop 10k on an ebike you won't get the uninformed "you paid that much for a bike without a motor?" response.



Ogre said:


> "No Builds"
> 
> If I'm dropping $10k on a bike, it's not going to be some stock bike with whatever kit Special-Ed decides I want, it's going to be a build with exactly the parts I want on it.


Dentists and orthopedic surgeons don't have time to research which rotor works best or which dropper post lever provides the most comfort. Lots of people who buy very expensive bikes go with stock configurations. 

Alternatively, I know a bike mechanic who has a loyal following of people who ask him for custom builds, giving him a blank check to choose whatever parts he thinks are appropriate for the customer.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

kpdemello said:


> Dentists and orthopedic surgeons don't have time to research which rotor works best or which dropper post lever provides the most comfort. Lots of people who buy very expensive bikes go with stock configurations.


Oh... this is a Fred only thread. I'll unsubscribe then.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

kpdemello said:


> At least if you drop 10k on an ebike you won't get the uninformed "you paid that much for a bike without a motor?" response.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually those guys have a lot more spare time than you think.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

numbnuts said:


> Buying a new bike has changed over the last 5 years a ton. Nearly every new bike is a "build" with the online builders most use these days.


I build my bikes. I've not seen any online configurators that come close to the options building gives you.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> I build my bikes. I've not seen any online configurators that come close to the options building gives you.


Well sure, that's correct, however my last one I hade 3 different headset and BB options alone, which is getting pretty good.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

LarryMagoo said:


> It's every bit an eBike that I love to ride...I raced XC in the 80's & 90's and I'm now 71 lets see how much riding you're doing at 71...all those specs are on a stock Apollo....nothing left from stock except the frame...I R&R'ed everything else...


Did you depower the motor and remove the hand throttle? Nope. It is not an ebike, it is an emoto with pedals and crank. You are riding, it is just not a bike.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ogre said:


> His bike is a bike by every definition. If the top posted just wanted push bikes they should have said as much.
> 
> This is last I checked MTB review and eMTBs are in fact... MTBs. There is even a subform on the site for it.


There is for e-bikes. This one does not meet any definition of ebike. It's power output exceeds Class 3 by more than double, Class 3 are limited to 750 watts and assist to 28mph. This has 2kw and no limiter. Accordingly, I stand by my statement, it is an emoto and people like him riding it on bike trails are part of the problem and do no favors towards those who are trying to get legitimate ebikes integrated into the fold.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Cary said:


> Did you depower the motor and remove the hand throttle? Nope. It is not an ebike, it is an emoto with pedals and crank. You are riding, it is just not a bike.


An electric motorcycle is a bike. MTBR also has a sub forum for electric mountain *bikes*. Ebike is just a short way of saying "Electric *bike*".


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ogre said:


> An electric motorcycle is a bike. MTBR also has a sub forum for electric mountain *bikes*. Ebike is just a short way of saying "Electric *bike*".
> 
> View attachment 2005050


Ok, so according to your definition a KTM EXC530 is also a bike. EVERYONE BE AWARE, G-D, I mean Ogre, Has spoken, ALL MOTORCYCLES ARE NOW BIKES.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Cary said:


> Ok, so according to your definition a KTM EXC530 is also a bike. EVERYONE BE AWARE, G-D, I mean Ogre, as spoken, ALL MOTORCYCLES ARE NOW BIKES.


The dictionary has said that motorcycles are bikes since the dawn of time.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

There are a lot of trails nearby which are legal for that bike (they are actually motorcycle legal) and commonly ridden by people on non motorized bikes. It's a thing. Might need an OHV sticker if it doesn't classify as an ebike, I'm not up on that side of the industry.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ogre said:


> There are a lot of trails nearby which are legal for that bike (they are actually motorcycle legal) and commonly ridden by people on non motorized bikes. It's a thing. Might need an OHV sticker if it doesn't classify as an ebike, I'm not up on that side of the industry.


Hence my explicit statement: "Please don’t ride that thing on bike trails".


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Well ****. I guess every thread IS an e-bike thread, after all.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

If you add up the msrp of my 10 bikes, it is well over $10,000.

Does that count?


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

My forbidden is over 10k. Does that count? 

Sent from my SM-S908W using Tapatalk


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Cary said:


> Hence my explicit statement: "Please don’t ride that thing on bike trails".


I was talking about bike trails.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I only ride my bikes like they cost $10,000. 
No need to actually spend that much. The value equation drops off somewhere around $6-7,000. 
=sParty


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

I've always done custom builds, but I've seen some manufacturers offering some $10,000 builds that are fairly close to what I would build if I were doing a full top of the line XC build. The value doesn't seem too far off from a custom build. On the other hand, the road bike industry really seems to jack up the price of "tour level" builds so much that they are often several thousand more than what you can build if the frame only option is available. A lot more of the roadies around me don't seem to be able to wrench their own bikes.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Ogre said:


> There are a lot of trails nearby which are legal for that bike (they are actually motorcycle legal) and commonly ridden by people on non motorized bikes. It's a thing. Might need an OHV sticker if it doesn't classify as an ebike, I'm not up on that side of the industry.


That Luna monstrosity is a class 4 ebike. In NH at least that means it is an Out of Class Electric Vehicle which can't even be ridden on the public road, let alone trails and paths. The reviews for it on their site make multiple references to speeds exceed 30 and even 40mph, and one even talks about removing the Maxxis logos from the tires with a Dremel to make it less conspicuous.


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## captvelo (3 mo ago)

Pretty sure that only professional bike reviewers get to ride the 10k bikes.


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## TOGALOCK (8 mo ago)

Meh…… people here are funny. There seems to be a lot of concern for what other people are doing. I bought mine “newsed.” It was practically brand new when I bought it, but the guy needed money, so it was less than half price for me. Defintely overkill for where I ride, but I enjoy riding it, and that’s all that matters. I’m not a dentist, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night, so anything is possible.









2020 Canyon Strive CFR LTD – Specs, Comparisons, Reviews – 99 Spokes


A 29″ carbon frame full suspension enduro bike with ultra high-end components.




99spokes.com


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

captvelo said:


> Pretty sure that only professional bike reviewers get to ride the 10k bikes.


At one of my son's XC races in the spring he spotted someone on a top spec Scott Spark RC...


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

eb1888 said:


> View attachment 2005037
> 
> It goes on most trails outside NA. Without accessories about 6500.
> View attachment 2005053


If I purchase this bike does this include the accessory shown next to the bike?


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## TiJoe (7 mo ago)

I am with others on this forum. For the past 40 years, I have custom built all of my bicycles. I have passed through the doors of a retail bicycle shop perhaps 15 times in the past 10 years, and never to look at outrageously priced bicycles.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

TiJoe said:


> I am with others on this forum. For the past 40 years, I have custom built all of my bicycles. I have passed through the doors of a retail bicycle shop perhaps 15 times in the past 10 years, and never to look at outrageously priced bicycles.


Having done a lot of both, Id content you can often get a better deal on a complete bike than an equal spec'd build.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

numbnuts said:


> Having done a lot of both, Id content you can often get a better deal on a complete bike than an equal spec'd build.


If you are spending $10k+ on a bike, you've left any hint of "better deal" long behind.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Ogre said:


> If you are spending $10k+ on a bike, you've left any hint of "better deal" long behind.


Id contend the more expensive something is the more important the deal is. You know….percentages and all…..


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## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

I ride a Pivot Trail 429 Pro X01 build with carbon wheels. MSRP is $9649. With tax that is over $10K. (I didn't actually pay that much, but technically it's a $10K+ bike.) And this is just a mid-level build -- they have 7 other builds that are more expensive, with the Team XX1 AXS Live costing $13,699.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

numbnuts said:


> Id contend the more expensive something is the more important the deal is. You know….percentages and all…..


You've lost the point here.

If you care about getting a deal, you buy a $7k bike (or less). By the time you hit $10k, you know you've left value long behind.

Either you just want the best and don't care that you are spending too much, or you are chasing conspicuous consumption.


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Ogre said:


> You've lost the point here.
> 
> If you care about getting a deal, you buy a $7k bike (or less). By the time you hit $10k, you know you've left value long behind.
> 
> Either you just want the best and don't care that you are spending too much, or you are chasing conspicuous consumption.


So getting an 11k build for 10k isn’t a good deal?…..


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

I'm almost always going to build my own bikes, especially if I'm approaching the $10k mark. 

I want a bike _exactly_ how I want my bike and very few builds are going to come from the factory how I want them. 

I prefer DVO suspension, most high-end builds are rolling out of the factory with Fox stuff. For the moment, I prefer Sramano AXS drivetrains, you're absolutely not finding that from the factory. 

Besides, at this point I have enough parts and stuff laying around, it's usually a lot easier and cheaper to just buy the frame I want and build it up with the parts I already have.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

FrankS29 said:


> Besides, at this point I have enough parts and stuff laying around, it's usually a lot easier and cheaper to just buy the frame I want and build it up with the parts I already have.


yea, frame swaps are really how I ended up building nicer bikes than I could otherwise afford. That and finding random deals on parts.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

numbnuts said:


> So getting an 11k build for 10k isn’t a good deal?…..


It's all situational. 

If that bike just so happens to be built up exactly how _you_ want, it might be. 

But if you want to swap a bunch of parts off of it, maybe not.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

FrankS29 said:


> If that bike just so happens to be built up exactly how _you_ want, it might be.


But, it never is. 
Just saying...


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## CEB (Mar 17, 2005)

I bought a complete bike (no pedals) for $6,800 off the floor of a LBS in 2015. Since then added/upgraded with over $4,000. It's a 50/50. Next bike will be a frame and components I want. It will still add up to $9,000-10,000 all said & done.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> But, it never is.
> Just saying...


I don't really see anything available with A4 brakes and Oury slip-ons...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Around here bikes of that value are very common (I see a We Are One Arrival on every single ride nowadays). If you count in depreciation they aren't as expensive as they appear to be.


Buy a bike for 10K, ride it for 3 years sell it for 5K. Your cost is $1700 per year. Buy a bike for 5K, ride it for three years sell it for $2500, cost is $850 per year. All of sudden that 10K bike doesn't seem to have as big of a price tag.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

numbnuts said:


> So getting an 11k build for 10k isn’t a good deal?…..


What if I put a sticker on that same bike that says $15,000 and sell it to you for $11,000. Is that a good deal?


----------



## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Oh man, I totally read into the initial post way different than everyone else. I saw the OP is a dealer, and I went straight into thinking he’s trying to figure out how many $10k+ bikes to order or how much cost he can mark-up before potential customers push back. I need to stop reading that Alex Jones thread in the OC, it’s making me into a conspiracy theorist.


----------



## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

numbnuts said:


> So getting an 11k build for 10k isn’t a good deal?…..


I think he's going down the slippery of slope of whether a $10K+ bike is ever a 'good deal' if it's not quantifiably twice as good as a $5000 bike? To me that is something only the buyer can decide.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

I don’t have one bike that is $10k but I have 4 that are about $25k. 

amortized over the years it’s not a lot compared to some hobbies.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

chiefsilverback said:


> I think he's going down the slippery of slope of whether a $10K+ bike is ever a 'good deal' if it's not quantifiably twice as good as a $5000 bike? To me that is something only the buyer can decide.


Wrong. It's completely up to Ogre. He's got all the rules on what's a bike and how much you should spend.
Name and avatar checks out.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ogre said:


> What if I put a sticker on that same bike that says $15,000 and sell it to you for $11,000. Is that a good deal?


No, you have to mark it up to $20k first, then down to $11k to make it a good deal. Bonus points if the “good deal” includes house branded stem, bars, dropper, ans wheels marketed as something special.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

My Tallboy4 qualifies for this thread. Full retail is just north of $10k. Got it in Dec 2019, have over 7k mi on it, been thru 4+ sets of tires, the rear shock just got replaced, and the XO cranks (original spec) just died.

And to answer everyone's first question: I never have installed the dropper. I grew up riding in the '80's/'90's in the midwest and still live in the midwest. However, I will be installing a dropper for my next trip out west or Brevard.

FTR, I'm not a dentist but I do need my teeth cleaned. 





  








IMG_2701.jpg




__
bingemtbr


__
3 mo ago




TB4


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Ruh roh....

e-bikes and droppers? This thread's gonna implode!


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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

chiefsilverback said:


> I think he's going down the slippery of slope of whether a $10K+ bike is ever a 'good deal' if it's not quantifiably twice as good as a $5000 bike? To me that is something only the buyer can decide.


Yes, he is


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Ogre said:


> What if I put a sticker on that same bike that says $15,000 and sell it to you for $11,000. Is that a good deal?


You are assuming LBSs are fabricating MSRP prices? Which any informed purchaser would know. So your example is not really relevant.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

numbnuts said:


> You are assuming LBSs are fabricating MSRP prices? Which any informed purchaser would know. So your example is not really relevant.


Bike manufacturers just fabricate MSRPs. 

Some bike makers don’t even have LBSs.


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Ogre said:


> Bike manufacturers just fabricate MSRPs.
> 
> Some bike makers don’t even have LBSs.


Got to get a baseline somewhere and made up stickers isn't it. Yes, a ton don’t have LBS. my last 2 in this range didn’t but there is still an MSRP set.


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## jannmayer (10 mo ago)

I demoed a $10k bike once.

I did not feel worthy of it.


----------



## Jolyzara (Jan 11, 2022)

jannmayer said:


> I demoed a $10k bike once.
> 
> I did not feel worthy of it.


I demo's a 10k bike. Rode the same as my 5k bike but was a couple pounds lighter so quicker on the uphill.


----------



## mnpikey (Sep 18, 2017)

Two bikes ago I had a hardtail Bianchi Grizzly I purchased in 2004. I rode that until 2016. Then I tried and almost immediately bought a new Santa Cruz 5010 in 2016, rode that for 6 years/24,000 miles. Last December I got this Blur.....probably over $12,000 into it as pictured and I don't care. It puts a smile on my face every time I ride it and I beat the heck out of it. It's still just a bike.

I've worked hard my whole life. I'm almost 50 now and can afford to spend money on hobbies that I enjoy....


----------



## dryk1t (7 mo ago)

Zerort said:


> If no one responds, how many S-Works is specialized actually producing each year to sell? - as an example.


Using MTBR or other enthusiast forums is hardly going to give you a realistic result of the high end pre-built buyer market.

What has inspired your curiosity? Jealousy, mockery?

Take a look at any of the bike buying recommendation threads and you will see how toxic some of the views people here have on what people should be doing with their money.

Throw up a thread asking for guidance on a trail bike for $1,500 and you will have someone preaching that the baseline they should be looking at is a $3,000 bike that only needs like one thing upgraded on it as well 😅

Some people love to show off their lives and wealth, some people don't. MTBR is not the place people who want to show off really go though  These old school resources are for enthusiasts who want to do a lot of things themselves or get information after they have exhausted other measures.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Ripbird said:


> Facts and the truth is unintelligent?


1. All you got is childish name calling
2. Politics is banned here


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ripbird said:


> What if your bike increased passed the 10k mark after Brandon took over, but you were lucky enough to get in prior? Does that count, since it's really the same bike?


Does anyone have a gibberish to English translator?


----------



## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

Ripbird said:


> Facts and the truth is unintelligent?


I see what you did there just skipped over the witless and boring part. I’ll assume youre Acknowledging those. I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad. 

dealing with children who come to Internet forums to call people names and try to start arguments is the unintelligent part.


----------



## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

dysfunction said:


> 1. All you got is childish name calling
> 2. Politics is banned here


No name calling. Just reality starting with day 1 and now look where we're at to this day and it's only going to get a lot worse. This thread will need to be changed to 12k bikes by next October.


----------



## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

Bassmantweed said:


> I see what you did there just skipped over the witless and boring part. I’ll assume youre Acknowledging those. I guess 2 out of 3 ain’t bad.
> 
> dealing with children who come to Internet forums to call people names and try to start arguments is the unintelligent part.


Cary. Does he also need an English translator, or are you selective in who you call out? Yes I seen my miss pronounced/ spelled word.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Ripbird said:


> No name calling. Just reality starting with day 1 and now look where we're at to this day and it's only going to get a lot worse.


What part of the second point do you not understand?

I'm done, reported.


----------



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Anyone who gets serious here, I’m reporting


----------



## Ripbird (Jun 25, 2020)

dysfunction said:


> What part of the second point do you not understand?
> 
> I'm done, reported.


I'm done too! Not reported. I left the 5th grade a long time ago!


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Ripbird said:


> I left the 5th grade a long time ago!


Could have fooled me.


----------



## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

i have 8 of these, 1 for each day of the week


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

chazpat said:


> If you add up the msrp of my 10 bikes, it is well over $10,000.
> 
> Does that count?


It definitely should, but only if you can get them all into the same picture.


Cary said:


> Does anyone have a gibberish to English translator?


Where's rich when you need him?


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Who the hell buys a 10k bike stock. Most riders that invested in the sport want to build there own creation.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

alexbn921 said:


> Who the hell buys a 10k bike stock. Most riders that invested in the sport want to build there own creation.


Yea, but a guy who sells bikes wants to know!


----------



## Helmut Molde (5 mo ago)

nauc said:


> i have 8 of these, 1 for each day of the week


Dayammmmmmm


----------



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Helmut Molde said:


> Dayammmmmmm


Maybe he owns 8 dental shops


----------



## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Maybe he owns 8 dental shops


9

😁


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Yeti should release a new '23 model called the Root Canal.

=sParty


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

All I'm saying is, when it's time to put the apocalypse team together, not only do I want a trauma surgeon/ER doc, but I'm taking my dentist. Helps that he also happens to be a weapons freak.


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> Yeti should release a new '23 model called the Root Canal.
> 
> =sParty


Then they can release a super special edition version called the “Out of Network” Root Canal


----------



## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Only way I can buy 10K bikes is to wait until the guy who buys 10K bikes gets a new one and dumps their old one.

Pre-bike shortage, I calculated how much it was costing a guy to sell his 10K bike used just 18 months later. He was paying close to $10 bucks a day, whether he rode it or not. 

Those type of used bike discounts are hard to find now though.


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

mlx john said:


> All I'm saying is, when it's time to put the apocalypse team together, not only do I want a trauma surgeon/ER doc, but I'm taking my dentist. Helps that he also happens to be a weapons freak.


Tell me about it.
So far I'm on track to have about a $10,000 dental year.
No kidding... so far this year: spring: root canal + new crown; summer: another crown came off and had to be re-cemented, then just before Labor Day a tooth broke off at the gumline -- I'll be getting an implant asap. 
Of my own volition I bought a $600 mouthguard hoping to deter any further oral insanity.
Meanwhile, 2 weeks from today I'm scheduled to see an oral surgeon for who knows what's going on in the back of my mouth on the lower left side. Pain there popped up about the time the tooth broke off. Have no idea why but I'm sure it'll be expensive.
Wondering what'll happen next is giving me a nervous tic.
$10,000 or so... yeah, I coulda bought a nifty new bike with that pile of cash.
Oh by the way -- no dental insurance.
=sParty


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Yea sParty, I got an implant that needs doing. I feel your pain, literally.


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sparticus said:


> Tell me about it.
> So far I'm on track to have about a $10,000 dental year.
> No kidding... so far this year: spring: root canal + new crown; summer: another crown came off and had to be re-cemented, then just before Labor Day a tooth broke off at the gumline -- I'll be getting an implant asap.
> Of my own volition I bought a $600 mouthguard hoping to deter any further oral insanity.
> ...


That sounds troubling, sPartman.

Dental insurance pays a pittance for what it is. If it paid like other forms of health insurance...

For what I am saddled with... Cancer treatment and what wasn't covered turns out to be a mortgage. Honestly, I don't wish that on anyone, let alone dental issues.
Hope the best for both you and dysfunction and the dental needs.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

beeristasty said:


> View attachment 2005034
> 
> 
> Where do I ride: mainly on the road
> ...


Haha my moto still isn’t over the 10k mark. But I sure do love this thing. Don’t see myself ever getting rid of it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Tallboy723 said:


> Haha my moto still isn’t over the 10k mark. But I sure do love this thing. Don’t see myself ever getting rid of it.


Those Speed Triples are sooo nice.
(I used to own a Sprint ST.)
=sParty


----------



## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Sparticus said:


> So far I'm on track to have about a $10,000 dental year.


my dermatologist charged $400 to remove a mole, and $800 to stitch up the hole it left, took him about 20 minutes tops. At those rates he could be buying $10K bikes!


----------



## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Ripbird said:


> Cary. Does he also need an English translator, or are you selective in who you call out? Yes I seen my miss pronounced/ spelled word.


It is far more than that. The entire sentence makes no sense. Is there a decoder ring?


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

chiefsilverback said:


> my dermatologist charged $400 to remove a mole, and $800 to stitch up the hole it left, took him about 20 minutes tops. At those rates he could be buying $10K bikes!


...maybe 8 or 9 of them.
=sParty


----------



## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Cary said:


> It is far more than that. The entire sentence makes no sense. Is there a decoder ring?


Dr. Leaky arrives to translate the hieroglyphs*


----------



## 93M500 (Nov 10, 2021)

I love this thread, it’s hilarious! My bike is $8k short of making the cut though…


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> Those Speed Triples are sooo nice.
> (I used to own a Sprint ST.)
> =sParty


Thanks, This is the Street Triple.


----------



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

93M500 said:


> I love this thread, it’s hilarious! My bike is $8k short of making the cut though…


So you’re a dental assistant?


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Sparticus said:


> Those Speed Triples are sooo nice.
> (I used to own a Sprint ST.)
> =sParty


That’s a street triple. This is a speed triple . And yup, they were great bikes!


----------



## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

chiefsilverback said:


> my dermatologist charged $400 to remove a mole, and $800 to stitch up the hole it left, took him about 20 minutes tops. At those rates he could be buying $10K bikes!


I’d have done it for $50 plus a 6 pack of good beer. With enough moles, you save enough to afford a $10k bike.


----------



## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

Cary said:


> It is far more than that. The entire sentence makes no sense. Is there a decoder ring?


Yes, read on its own it makes no sense. That's the way these things work, each post build on or reference prior posts. Go back and read it in context, If you still need help with reading comprehension and/or retention, then come back and ill spell it out for you or "decode" it.


----------



## jabrabu (Aug 2, 2010)

nauc said:


> i have 8 of these, 1 for each day of the week


Wow, that's a pretty bike.


----------



## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

I'm 17 and i spent more money to buy my xc bike, than some of my friends used to buy motorcycles, but i puts a smile on my face so i don't care


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Laupe said:


> I'm 17 and i spent more money to buy my xc bike, than some of my friends used to buy motorcycles, but i puts a smile on my face so i don't care


That's all that matters.
=sParty


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)




----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

alexbn921 said:


> View attachment 2005173
> View attachment 2005174


Nice! Mine was blue. 
=sParty


----------



## zvonler (Jun 22, 2010)

Since it's now a Triumph party... loved that Streetie.


----------



## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

My neighbor has a late 70's early 80's Triumph that he bought new, but I doubt he paid 10k for it. Still in perfect condition.


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

zvonler said:


> Since it's now a Triumph party... loved that Streetie.


Black tape FTW.


----------



## zvonler (Jun 22, 2010)

numbnuts said:


> Black tape FTW.


You wouldn't like Streetie when she's angry.


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

zvonler said:


> You wouldn't like Streetie when she's angry.
> View attachment 2005179


Yea, that’s what the GSXR1000 was for (angry days) lol. I don’t really have any good pics from the past life anymore. 200hp in 2003-2005 with no electronic nanny was so different. I loved the 1050 trip on the street but could never get my body position right on it on the track. Oh I found a pic…. Kinda!


----------



## zvonler (Jun 22, 2010)

numbnuts said:


> Yea, that’s what the GSXR1000 was for (angry days) lol. I don’t really have any good pics from the past life anymore. 200hp in 2003-2005 with no electronic nanny was so different. I loved the 1050 trip on the street but could never get my body position right on it on the track. Oh I found a pic…. Kinda!


Right on. Streetie was definitely not the best track bike, plus it was my commuter so I always took it a little easy on her. The real angry days were on an RSV4, which I for sure needed the nannies to stay on top of.


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

zvonler said:


> Right on. Streetie was definitely not the best track bike, plus it was my commuter so I always took it a little easy on her. The real angry days were on an RSV4, which I definitely needed the nannies to stay on top of.


Shoot, now you're going to make me have to find my RSV pics!


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

zvonler said:


> Right on. Streetie was definitely not the best track bike, plus it was my commuter so I always took it a little easy on her. The real angry days were on an RSV4, which I for sure needed the nannies to stay on top of.


Found one. My old "twin" twins!


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> That $10k bike might be a contribution to some nice R8 wheels.


I'd prefer both, thankyouverymuch!


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Zerort said:


> Post a picture of your $10,000 plus bike that you bought retail. Where do you ride, and how often do you use your baller bike?
> 
> Trying to get a feel how many of these bikes manufacturers are actually moving.


What the Hell is a "baller" bike?


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Rev Bubba said:


> What the Hell is a "baller" bike?


Any bike that the OP cannot afford.


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Laupe said:


> I'm 17 and i spent more money to buy my xc bike, than some of my friends used to buy motorcycles, but i puts a smile on my face so i don't care


Is it an e-bike?


----------



## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

Crankout said:


> Any bike that the OP cannot afford.


I see. 

Since I can easily afford any bike, production or full custom, but have the sense not to spend that kind of money on a bike, I guess there is no such thing as a "baller" bike for me. 

I'm still trying to figure out why people are trying to sell me an eBike so I can get to the top faster when I ride solo. It's cheaper to just say I got to the top faster.

Ain't life grand?


----------



## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

I have three bikes now (2022 Ibis Ripley, 2022 Ibis Hakka MX, and a 2021 Yeti ARC). I bought them all in the past 2 1/2 years. One of them is a stock bike (Hakka MX) otherwise the other two are custom builds. I have about $19.5K into these 3 bikes as they sit now. Yuck. That number upsets my stomach, but when I am riding I adore them. Haha! I have owned many other bikes prior to these and have no idea how much I have spent on bikes and riding. Whatever. I am going to ride bikes no matter what, so what's the difference?

I ski too. I have about 5 or 6 pairs of skis (all new), two pairs of boots (all new and one extra yet to be worn pair in reserve), and a lot of ski clothing. I've had a season pass for the past 35 years in Taos. In total I have no idea how much skiing has cost me. I have never added it up. What's the difference, I am going to ski no matter what! Haha!

I used to race motorcycles. Now those were expensive and expensive to race. I had sponsorship and raced competitively for about 10 years in the 1990's and early 2000's. I do know how much that cost and I won't even get into it. Suffice it say, it was a ludicrous amount of money. Big truck and trailer to haul them around and all the extra parts, etc, etc, etc. If you paid me again, I wouldn't ride one. Its like juggling chainsaws, sooner or later you're going to grab the wrong end and sliding/tumbling at over 100mph isn't fun. I loved it when I did it, but never again.


----------



## Laupe (Jan 9, 2022)

Crankout said:


> Is it an e-bike?


No...


----------



## Jimmy Curry (Jul 12, 2021)

Zerort said:


> Post a picture of your $10,000 plus bike that you bought retail. Where do you ride, and how often do you use your baller bike?
> 
> Trying to get a feel how many of these bikes manufacturers are actually moving.


I ride all the Houston area, and Texas hill country MTB trails. I ride 2 to 4 times a week, several hours or more each time. Not on the streets, but on dirt, with features, jumps, drops, walls, skinnys, etc. Here's a pic of my ORBEA RISE M-LTD $11,400.00. Riding it a ton and having a blast. My wife and I are both 65 years old and retired. Our combined annual income from Social Security is a modest $40,000.00. We have lived in our paid for home in the Houston area for 40 years I have ridden bikes since I could walk. I road raced GCCA, (Gulf Coast Cycling Association) in the late 60's and 70's and early 80's. I have been riding and raced mountain bikes since they were first sold in bike shops. My very first, (off the showroom floor bike was a brand new shiny Green Schwinn Varsity, year 1968. I couldn't afford the Schwinn Campy equipped Paramount with my yard mowing, paper route budget, but that lowly Varsity was the start of my affection for nice bikes, and I've had several $10,000 plus bikes. Before my throat cancer at age 57,,, I rode and raced my 19lb. Scott Spark full squisher. It also had very near $10,000 invested in it's build. Post cancer,,, I now ride an ebike because it allows me to be a part of my very fast and fit group of friends whom all ride analogue bikes. One last pic shows that I'm no poser. I even mountain biked while wearing a chemo pump into my heart.


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

beastmaster said:


> I have three bikes now (2022 Ibis Ripley, 2022 Ibis Hakka MX, and a 2021 Yeti ARC). I bought them all in the past 2 1/2 years. One of them is a stock bike (Hakka MX) otherwise the other two are custom builds. I have about $19.5K into these 3 bikes as they sit now. Yuck. That number upsets my stomach, but when I am riding I adore them. Haha! I have owned many other bikes prior to these and have no idea how much I have spent on bikes and riding. Whatever. I am going to ride bikes no matter what, so what's the difference?
> 
> I ski too. I have about 5 or 6 pairs of skis (all new), two pairs of boots (all new and one extra yet to be worn pair in reserve), and a lot of ski clothing. I've had a season pass for the past 35 years in Taos. In total I have no idea how much skiing has cost me. I have never added it up. What's the difference, I am going to ski no matter what! Haha!
> 
> ...


 top one Infineon race way?


----------



## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

Several thoughts about this thread.

1.You’re not going be able to glean any statistical data about $10k bike sales from a niche forum. I suspect this is not the real reason for the inquiry.

2. A $10k MTB purchase is a foolish buy, thus the sales volume is extremely low. Value drops approximately 25% in year one… coincidentally you can build the same bike yourself for approximately 25% less.

3. Having built and ridden a few “$10k equivalent” MTBs, I can tell you with certainty, that they ride and feel the same as a $5k bike. Save the money, or buy a second $5k bike before dropping $10k on a single bike.


----------



## Jimmy Curry (Jul 12, 2021)

Laupe said:


> No...


Dude!! . I will admit that your post is funny. Love the sub $400 department store mountain bike🤣😆


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> Several thoughts about this thread.
> 
> 1.You’re not going be able to glean any statistical data about $10k bike sales from a niche forum. I suspect this is not the real reason for the inquiry.
> 
> ...


Foolish buy? So is a new truck foolish vs.a used one? I think Ford sells 2452 new F-150 to a fool every every day.
I've never ridden or raced a 5K bike that feels the same as a 10K bike. If you get the same frame, only way you are getting a 10K bike down to 5K is to drop several levels of suspension, wheels and drivetrain quality. Are you saying those don't matter and aren't noticeable?


----------



## ipedalhard (Apr 25, 2021)

This thread surprises me. Bike manufacturers have been steadily increasing prices of their builds from the factory and a $10,000 bike is not as far-fetched as it was in years past. MTB is what you make it, but generally considered an expensive hobby. I have a $10k bike, but was built from the frame-up, and since this is about retail bikes I will not share photos or build specs. There are many factors to consider. A warranty on the frame and bombproof lifetime warranty on the wheels make sense to me. A custom tuned shock with damping properties that are better than bigger manufacturers. Wireless drivetrain that doesn't involve the hassle of cables. The biggest factor is that these components can be transferred to a new frame a few years down the road, which certainly offsets the initial $10k cost. This is true for retail 10k builds too. I ride a lot of miles, and bike trips are dirt cheap compared to what most folks do for vacation - it's free to ride trails! Therefore the $10k build cost is justified in my eyes.

Also why is everyone posting photos of motos in an MTB thread?


----------



## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

ipedalhard said:


> Also why is everyone posting photos of motos in an MTB thread?


Because e-bike are motorcycles.........or so the story goes?.........


----------



## Jimmy Curry (Jul 12, 2021)

ipedalhard said:


> This thread surprises me. Bike manufacturers have been steadily increasing prices of their builds from the factory and a $10,000 bike is not as far-fetched as it was in years past. MTB is what you make it, but generally considered an expensive hobby. I have a $10k bike, but was built from the frame-up, and since this is about retail bikes I will not share photos or build specs. There are many factors to consider. A warranty on the frame and bombproof lifetime warranty on the wheels make sense to me. A custom tuned shock with damping properties that are better than bigger manufacturers. Wireless drivetrain that doesn't involve the hassle of cables. The biggest factor is that these components can be transferred to a new frame a few years down the road, which certainly offsets the initial $10k cost. This is true for retail 10k builds too. I ride a lot of miles, and bike trips are dirt cheap compared to what most folks do for vacation - it's free to ride trails! Therefore the $10k build cost is justified in my eyes.
> 
> Also why is everyone posting photos of motos in an MTB thread?


My thought exactly!


----------



## LarryMagoo (Jan 13, 2022)

That ORBEA RISE M-LTD is beautiful! Glad you enjoy it, no matter what it costs....I like your custom graphics...


----------



## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ipedalhard said:


> This thread surprises me. Bike manufacturers have been steadily increasing prices of their builds from the factory and a $10,000 bike is not as far-fetched as it was in years past. MTB is what you make it, but generally considered an expensive hobby. I have a $10k bike, but was built from the frame-up, and since this is about retail bikes I will not share photos or build specs...


I pointed this out pages ago. You are very typical, people who care about this sport enough to drop $10g are mostly going to gravitate towards custom builds for exactly the reason you did. 

Lots of people get aftermarket wheels or replace the rubber, grips. I prefer Shimano brakes and would pay more to swap them out. This whole thread by default eliminates all the people who care the most about their bikes.


----------



## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

i put 10k bike buyers in the same catagory as the trashy oligarchs with the giant suvs upolstered with whale penis leather.

oh, and ebikes arent bikes.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

eri said:


> trashy oligarchs with the giant suvs upolstered with whale penis leather.


This may become my new work email signature.


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## mbrick (Mar 11, 2011)

Every ebike on my local trail is >$10k. And at this point most of them are ebike. 
I have a friend who bought 2x brand new high end Santa Cruz ebikes ( >10k/ea) so they could ride together.

But I don't think this forum is the right place. Go to your local trail and take a survey?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I have 3 bikes that are worth well over 10k total. Does that count?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Should make a thread for pictures of bikes which are worth more than the car they are mounted on.


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## Bikeventures (Jul 21, 2014)

Ogre said:


> Should make a thread for pictures of bikes which are worth more than the car they are mounted on.


A common occurrence


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Bikeventures said:


> A common occurrence


But it'd be a more fun thread!


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Seems odd to b*tch about the cost of high-end, new (in-box) bikes while golfers typically spend $4-$5k+ for a set of clubs and bag. Not counting course fees and money spent at the club house afterwards....$10k for a new mtb is a bargain compared to golf. 

*Yes, I know you can buy beginner and used clubs for much less. You can also spend much more than $1k for a single driver.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Bikeventures said:


> A common occurrence


Says something about the priorities of the owner.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

bingemtbr said:


> Seems odd to b*tch about the cost of high-end, new (in-box) bikes while golfers typically spend $4-$5k+ for a set of clubs and bag. Not counting course fees and money spent at the club house afterwards....$10k for a new mtb is a bargain compared to golf.
> 
> *Yes, I know you can buy beginner and used clubs for much less. You can also spend much more than $1k for a single driver.


It's not the $10k price point that most of us find silly, it's the idea that it should be stock builds only. Most $10k+ bikes I've seen are customized significantly. 

Been a long time since I golfed, but when I did, most guys I played with were a lot pickier about which driver they bought then their irons. Lots of people would buy a set and have a different driver or two and quite a few had putters which weren't part of the "Set". Most also buy bags separate from their clubs as well.


It's been quite a few years since I've cut grass with a stick though.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

numbnuts said:


> top one Infineon race way?


Some of the photos are from Colorado and some of them are from Texas. In CO we raced in Pueblo, Colorado Springs, and an old track that no longer exists. In TX we raced at the Motorsports Ranch and The Speedway in Dallas. I have raced everywhere from New Hampshire, Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Texas, Oklahoma, and California back in the day. I have ridden thousands of laps at speed on many different tracks. I club raced in the MRA (CO), SMRA (OK & TX), and the AMA (national series called Pro Thunder). It was fun until it wasn't and that is when I stopped.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Ogre said:


> It's not the $10k price point that most of us find silly, it's the idea that it should be stock builds only. Most $10k+ bikes I've seen are customized significantly.
> 
> Been a long time since I golfed, but when I did, most guys I played with were a lot pickier about which driver they bought then their irons. Lots of people would buy a set and have a different driver or two and quite a few had putters which weren't part of the "Set". Most also buy bags separate from their clubs as well.
> 
> ...


I'm Ping putter, wedge and irons, Taylor Made for hybrids, fairway woods and drivers, Titleist ball, and a Cobra bag.

Also recently found an Under Armor glove that's awesome for me. 

It has been a long time since I've been _serious_ about golf, but I'm still pretty picky with what I use. 

Most serious golfers not only have a bag full of handpicked clubs, but they are also usually custom built for them and their swing. Anything from shaft material and flex, to grips and amount of tape under that grip to lie angles and even custom grinds. 

I think any hobby or sport that people get serious about, they typically get very picky about equipment.


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

numbnuts said:


> Foolish buy? So is a new truck foolish vs.a used one? I think Ford sells 2452 new F-150 to a fool every every day.
> I've never ridden or raced a 5K bike that feels the same as a 10K bike. If you get the same frame, only way you are getting a 10K bike down to 5K is to drop several levels of suspension, wheels and drivetrain quality. Are you saying those don't matter and aren't noticeable?


Is a new F150 a foolish buy? Maybe… if you are buying the $10k MTB equivalent F150… yes. Point being… it’s an F150, you shouldn’t pay $90k for a “high end” version of a truck that has a base price of $30k. Theres no amount of options and upgrades that should triple the cost of the base vehicle.

Same goes for the MTB. At its core, it’s a $3500 frame… wether you spend $2000 on components or in this case $6500 in components, the bike is going to ride the same.

Sure you might save a pound… maybe two, but that is really a concern for XC bikes and racing. Sure you can have more suspension adjustments than you can manage. Sure you can have wireless components. But, at the end of the day, it’s the same bike, and it’s going ride and handle 95% the same… anyway you configure it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> Is a new F150 a foolish buy? Maybe… if you are buying the $10k MTB equivalent F150… yes. Point being… it’s an F150, you shouldn’t pay $90k for a “high end” version of a truck that has a base price of $30k. Theres no amount of options and upgrades that should triple the cost of the base vehicle.


Or if you really have $90k burning a hole in your pocket, you’d end up much better off spending $45-55k on the truck and using the extra $40k on aftermarket upgrades. 

Sort of the same way you end up with a much better mountain bike by spending $7-8k and upgrading it than dropping $10k+ on a bike.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Out of an abundance of curiosity, I went and checked out the WAO arrivals, which would probably be the only bikes in this price range I'd consider.. and then only because of the location of manufacturing.. (and even then, bloody unlike barring winning a lottery that I don't play) and it's not a 10 grand bike anyway.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Ogre said:


> Should make a thread for pictures of bikes which are worth more than the car they are mounted on.


According to KBB I'm right on the line...


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Well since we are showing off our motorized toys.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Cary said:


> Well since we are showing off our motorized toys.
> 
> View attachment 2005256
> View attachment 2005257


Nice bike.


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

Ducati 1098SF 20K new in 2012
BMW F800GSA 15k new in 2014

I can tell you this - I will never spend so much on motos ever again! But I have traveled all over on these bikes with people I would otherwise not have met and to places I would not have seen. Do not regret.

My Enduro Expert was a cheap 6k in Jan 2021 and my tricked 5010 with mods has like 7.5k into it. Does not qualify for thread.


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## TCSglTrk (9 mo ago)

Picked up this trail slayer for 10,000 pennies including the kickstand!


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

OK, realizing this thread is a setup, I’ll ’fess up . . . we bought two Trek Top Fuel 9.9’s. Photo below shows them on our $60,000 Jeep, which could have been a $40,000 version. Our road and gravel bikes are second from top tier. Oh, the shame. 😩 Let the scorn begin!

It’s a matter of* stages of life, *combined with your financial blessings and lifestyle priorities. Cycling is our primary recreational activity, 150-200 days per year. You get to an age where you realize the bike you buy today might be your last. What would *you* want to ride if it might be your last?  If 20 years from now I’m fortunate enough to be alive and maybe sitting in an independent living facility, am I going to look back and say “I sure wish I hadn’t blown that money on a $10,000 MTB”? Seems very unlikely to be one of life’s regrets.

I don’t regret the fortune I spent skiing for 12 seasons either. The guy who introduced me to skiing loved it. It was his lifelong passion. By the time he retired in 2008, Parkinson’s had begin to affect his ability to snowboard, but he blew a fortune on a heli-ski trip in the Canadian Rockies that winter. A small group was lodged in a cabin and fed gourmet meals prepared by a chef. Each day they were airlifted to remote mountain tops to ski untracked powder over and over. The whole thing was captured by a videographer on the helicopter. The experience and price were breathtaking. He rode RAGBRAI with me in 2009 and we skied together one more time in 2017, but by then Parkinson’s had taken most of his stamina. Today he can’t bike or ski, but shuffles on. Was his heli-ski trip foolish or brilliant at that stage of life?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

One thing is for sure, you can't take it with you. Paying to create memories is really probably the best way to spend your money, if you have it, IMO.

Neurological disorders are hell, I feel for your friend, you and his other friends and family.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

dysfunction said:


> One thing is for sure, you can't take it with you. Paying to create memories is really probably the best way to spend your money, if you have it, IMO.
> 
> Neurological disorders are hell, I feel for your friend, you and his other friends and family.


My Dad died with Parkinson’s (but from COPD). My wife’s parents each faded away with dementia before dying of other causes. My mother is headed down the dementia path in her independent living facility at age 87. The book Spark teaches how exercise is very strongly linked to all brain functions. Read it and you’ll be motivated to keep moving! I view cycling as an investment in brain health. MTB seems especially powerful since it combines complex balance and muscle movements with cardio intervals. Ride with friends and you get social benefits too. Best of all, it’s FUN.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Dkayak said:


> My Dad died with Parkinson’s (but from COPD). My wife’s parents each faded away with dementia before dying of other causes. My mother is headed down the dementia path in her independent living facility at age 87. The book Spark teaches how exercise is very strongly linked to all brain functions. Read it and you’ll be motivated to keep moving! I view cycling as an investment in brain health. MTB seems especially powerful since it combines complex balance and muscle movements with cardio intervals. Ride with friends and you get social benefits too. Best of all, it’s FUN.


Yea, my dad died from frontal temporal dementia. He was career military, and was physically active his entire life. But I agree with you, it's great for your over all physical health. It's also great therapy!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Ogre said:


> I pointed this out pages ago. You are very typical, people who care about this sport enough to drop $10g are mostly going to gravitate towards custom builds for exactly the reason you did.
> 
> Lots of people get aftermarket wheels or replace the rubber, grips. I prefer Shimano brakes and would pay more to swap them out. This whole thread by default eliminates all the people who care the most about their bikes.



I don't think so. 10k stock builds are commonplace now and custom builds are still niche.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't think so. 10k stock builds are commonplace now and custom builds are still niche.


This boggles my mind. Once you're into serious dosh on a bike, why let a project manager pick for you.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

dysfunction said:


> This boggles my mind. Once you're into serious dosh on a bike, why let a project manager pick for you.


A lot of people, especially dentists, don’t know what they want. As long as it’s expensive and gets looks on the back of their e-car, they’re happy


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

dysfunction said:


> This boggles my mind. Once you're into serious dosh on a bike, why let a project manager pick for you.




Custom builds can be a pita, not for everyone. Lots of people just want to walk out with a top shelf xx1 bike and ride. Also generally you'll pay (even) more for a similar build.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

dysfunction said:


> This boggles my mind. Once you're into serious dosh on a bike, why let a project manager pick for you.


We weighed our options among several brands and chose Trek’s new Top Fuel in part because we didn’t have to settle for the product manager’s choices. Another factor was outstanding support from this shop. Even the numerous TF standard models include lots of builds from bottom to top. At the top 9.9 you have two, the Shimano group with Fox suspension or the SRAM with RockShox. We prefer eTap and Rockshox, so the 9.9 AXS model was the starting point for two Project One builds. It would have been easy to configure a SRAM-Fox bike, select lighter XC wheels, change crank arm length, or stick with a cable dropper (as examples). The Project One color/fade options were like an endless dive down a rabbit hole. Having said all that, the standard builds seemed pretty well thought-out. We didn’t change a lot.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

Dkayak said:


> OK, realizing this thread is a setup, I’ll ’fess up . . . we bought two Trek Top Fuel 9.9’s. Photo below shows them on our $60,000 Jeep, which could have been a $40,000 version. Our road and gravel bikes are second from top tier. Oh, the shame. 😩 Let the scorn begin!
> 
> It’s a matter of* stages of life, *combined with your financial blessings and lifestyle priorities. Cycling is our primary recreational activity, 150-200 days per year. You get to an age where you realize the bike you buy today might be your last. What would *you* want to ride if it might be your last?  If 20 years from now I’m fortunate enough to be alive and maybe sitting in an independent living facility, am I going to look back and say “I sure wish I hadn’t blown that money on a $10,000 MTB”? Seems very unlikely to be one of life’s regrets.
> 
> ...


So true. I don’t have any $10k bikes, but between my bikes and my son’s have over $30k in bikes in the garage. I make a decent living and can afford it. It also gives me time well spent with my son. It is my priority. I don’t go out to dinner all the time, don’t buy expensive clothes (except my suits), never bought a new car, don’t take expensive trips. My buddy is taking his wife and kids on a $30k Disney cruise next year. I think he is nuts. He thinks my bike habit is nuts. Everyone has their thing.


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

J.B. Weld said:


> Custom builds can be a pita, not for everyone. Lots of people just want to walk out with a top shelf xx1 bike and ride. Also generally you'll pay (even) more for a similar build.


I get your points about just walking in and walking out with a bike, but there is a premium to pay for that.

A piece built bike will almost always be cheaper to build… unless you are getting an end of model/year discount on a complete bike. Components can always be found on sale or on a site with a percent off coupon available… not the case for complete bikes or frames.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I bought all of my frames on sale.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> Custom builds can be a pita, not for everyone. Lots of people just want to walk out with a top shelf xx1 bike and ride. Also generally you'll pay (even) more for a similar build.


That's just dandy but on teh topic of 10k and up, I refuse to buy a production bike for that kind of coin. Hell, my latest custom frame will build out far less and have the dimensions and angles I specify.
At that budget, I expect to choose dimensions and angles! Annnnnnd, each component going into the build.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

We're a small sample size of riders. I think the average mtb'r that doesn't post on here or lurk around these threads doesn't have much knowledge when it comes to doing your own work. I assume most of us at some point built up a bike - having all of the proper or improvised tools to cut a fork, install a star nut, all of the internal cabling including the rear brake hose, cutting brake lines, bleeding brakes, on and on.
Can be a bit daunting for your average bloke.

I have friends who would be able to pick a frame, but other than that, wouldn't have the slightest idea as to component choices (cause they're not obsessive nuts like us).

It's just easier for some people to buy a complete bike, whether you're spending 3k or 10k. The product managers mostly do a decent job at spec.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

the only bikes I have paid more than $10000 for identify as Ebikes


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Does my slayer count? I bought in new o special for $5k. But then built it to well over a 10k bike over time. So it's both a retail bike and a build...

Ps the only thing that's original is the frame, seat and headset.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Ogre said:


> Should make a thread for pictures of bikes which are worth more than the car they are mounted on.


Pretty sure that thread used to exist.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

S-Works...busted suspension model...waiting for a fixin today.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

$10,000 bike seems like a bargain compared to this:









The $1,800 potato chip purse that screams 'notice me!' | CNN Business


Is there an appetite for Balenciaga's $1,800 potato chip purse? CNN's Jeanne Moos reports.




www.cnn.com


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

chazpat said:


> Pretty sure that thread used to exist.











Who has a bike is worth more than their car?


Who has a bike is worth more than their car? Everyone thinks I am nuts to have such a pricey bike and beat down car. To me it is totally warranted because the bike has a lot of pleasurable value in it for me. Cars are great, but I drive like a grandma and ride my bike like a downhill racer...




www.mtbr.com













Is your bike worth more than your car?


My friend pointed someone out at the trailhead that his bike was worth much more than his car. I started laughing but then realized, wait a minute - my bike is worth twice as much as my car too...i stopped laughing. That said i find much more enjoyment from my bike than my car, so i think it's...




www.mtbr.com


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

chazpat said:


> $10,000 bike seems like a bargain compared to this:


Sure, but as a hand bag, folks would think the person carrying it was a homeless person or a homeless person in training (meth head). Right up until they point out the cost of the bag....I would say Paris Hilton, but, wasnt she a meth head? Wait, I am so confused. And, I got a new car two days ago...could get 12 or so S-Works Epic Evo....(that said, the "bike car" is on its last freaking leg and has a value of $150 or so).


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

FrankS29 said:


> I think any hobby or sport that people get serious about, they typically get very picky about equipment.


Personally I have found for hobbies I have gotten serious about that I may be picky but I still shop on the low to mid tier cause usually the highest end is marginal gains (audio, watches, bikes, cars, getting into photography).


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## Super E (Nov 5, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Yeti should release a new '23 model called the Root Canal.
> 
> =sParty


Or maybe the Gold Crown…
Or even better Open Wide


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Sparticus said:


> Yeti should release a new '23 model called the Root Canal.
> 
> =sParty


Should call it the Stent. A stent costs 24,000 on up and we haven't mentioned installation yet!


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## scottie mac (Nov 3, 2011)

I have one over 10k, one slightly under 10k and one that was around 5K. Love them all. What is 'affordable' is a matter of opinion. What seems outrageous to one person is not bad to another. Maybe instead of mocking people by calling them 'dentists' people should take a long hard look at the decisions they made to not be able to afford bike A or bike B? That whole personal responsibility thing is tough......


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## Jimmy Curry (Jul 12, 2021)

Dkayak said:


> OK, realizing this thread is a setup, I’ll ’fess up . . . we bought two Trek Top Fuel 9.9’s. Photo below shows them on our $60,000 Jeep, which could have been a $40,000 version. Our road and gravel bikes are second from top tier. Oh, the shame. 😩 Let the scorn begin!
> 
> It’s a matter of* stages of life, *combined with your financial blessings and lifestyle priorities. Cycling is our primary recreational activity, 150-200 days per year. You get to an age where you realize the bike you buy today might be your last. What would *you* want to ride if it might be your last?  If 20 years from now I’m fortunate enough to be alive and maybe sitting in an independent living facility, am I going to look back and say “I sure wish I hadn’t blown that money on a $10,000 MTB”? Seems very unlikely to be one of life’s regrets.
> 
> ...


I believe that if you can afford it, if your able to do it, if it's legal, and it's a hell of a lot of fun, then have at it guilt free with a big ole smile on your face!


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## baitdragger (Feb 6, 2007)

Lots of Duck owners on here. I had a 748r that I should have kept. Oh well.

but my motorcycle habit keeps me from buying a $10k Santa Cruz with brakes I don’t want. I’ll just go buy a 850gs for a few more thousand at that point.

factory builds with GX components and ho-hum hubs are getting out of control


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

baitdragger said:


> Lots of Duck owners on here. I had a 748r that I should have kept. Oh well.
> 
> but my motorcycle habit keeps me from buying a $10k Santa Cruz with brakes I don’t want. I’ll just go buy a 850gs for a few more thousand at that point.
> 
> factory builds with GX components and ho-hum hubs are getting out of control


Def lots of Ducati's - we must be the enthusiast class.

I have regretted selling certain moto's - understand that regret!

Agree - when some ebikes cost as much as a new 850GS something is not right.

And finally, yes! The NX builds with 370 hubs is def out of control.

I priced a custom build for a Tallboy last night. 9200$ for the build I want vs. 8200$ for a a factory build with shitty wheels, a fork I would change, and many other components I would change over time. I will post a link to my gofundme soon.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

C Smasher said:


> I will post a link to my gofundme soon.



You are blessed and fortunate that I am the heir of an oil fortune in Dubai and I will send you money via GoFundMe. I will simply need every aspect of your GoFundMe account this my friend will include your name, birthdate, social sec............ ;-P


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

I think the wealth distribution in the country is shameful. In particular a 10k bike in 2022 means youve got a complete disregard for the value of things. In the same league as people that dont wash their clothes and just wear new.

Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.

i dont fault being able to afford a thing, $10k is nothing compared to cars and housing, or a quality violin. what i fault is actually buying dumb overpriced stuff. $7k… ok. But $10k off the rack? In current market thats just ignorant and youre a victim of marketing. Like those fine chronographs i see plastered on billboards and magazines.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Buy what you want...if you have the scratch, enjoy the better things like that S-Works Enduro or Aethos. And yes, they are better as much as the folks want to say that they are equivalent to the lesser models.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

@eri - um, wow. Seriously? I bet I am super evil for just paying more for a car than most teachers make in three years.....so...I bet I am part of the problem, right? BTW, Twin Turbo V8...11mpg city. Perfect!!!!!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

eri said:


> I think the wealth distribution in the country is shameful. In particular a 10k bike in 2022 means youve got a complete disregard for the value of things. In the same league as people that dont wash their clothes and just wear new.
> 
> Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.
> 
> i dont fault being able to afford a thing, $10k is nothing compared to cars and housing, or a quality violin. what i fault is actually buying dumb overpriced stuff. $7k… ok. But $10k off the rack? In current market thats just ignorant and youre a victim of marketing. Like those fine chronographs i see plastered on billboards and magazines.




So 7k is alright but 10 makes you an ignorant person who's a victim of marketing? Some people just like nice stuff.

Your line is 7k (apparently) Others think half that much is ridiculous.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

eri said:


> I think the wealth distribution in the country is shameful. In particular a 10k bike in 2022 means youve got a complete disregard for the value of things. In the same league as people that dont wash their clothes and just wear new.
> 
> Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.
> 
> i dont fault being able to afford a thing, $10k is nothing compared to cars and housing, or a quality violin. what i fault is actually buying dumb overpriced stuff. $7k… ok. But $10k off the rack? In current market thats just ignorant and youre a victim of marketing. Like those fine chronographs i see plastered on billboards and magazines.


None of this adds up. You can buy a bike at Walmart for $200. So you are saying it’s ok to spend $7k on one but someone is ignorant and a victim of marketing if they spend $10k?


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

J.B. Weld said:


> Your line is 7k (apparently) Others think half that much is ridiculous.


In this instance, we as active people (athlete's)...we are the .01%. 99.9% of society (in the US) would not pay for an XTR brake caliper, let alone a pair, let alone a high end bike. WalMart is the #1 bicycle reseller for a reason, and they fit a very important niche in the market...over 90% of people on bikes.


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

Reading through these responses and as an Oligarch-Dentist who owns one of the bikes in question, there are 3 parts to the $10k bike equation:

Frame. $2500-$3500 seems the norm. 
Build. $1500-$3000. This includes shock platforms (i.e. Fox factory vs performance, etc.)
Wheels. $700-$2500+. Roval CF rims on DT370 vs ENVEs (Or Reserves, Or I9's, pick your poison).
The math makes sense to me. You can get to a stock $10k (pedal) bike pretty quick.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

eri said:


> Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.


Very noble thoughts. Do you walk the talk?

I suspect eri is willing to disclose just how philanthropic he has been in supporting his ideals and advice. Surely he wouldn't say this unless he stands behind his statement.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Sir kayakalot said:


> None of this adds up. You can buy a bike at Walmart for $200. So you are saying it’s ok to spend $7k on one but someone is ignorant and a victim of marketing if they spend $10k?


No, I think he's saying that they're trashy oligarchs whose giant suv is upholstered with whale penis leather.


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

My large SUV has white rhino scrotum sack leather. My bike saddle was custom made to match


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

TTTURNER said:


> My large SUV has white rhino scrotum sack leather. My bike saddle was custom made to match



Some woman was SERIOUSLY complaining about the color of my chain "Oil Slick"...I tried to ease her mind by saying I only lubricate it with Baby Seal Tears....well, that really put her over the edge. I do wish I was kidding.


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

CGriffen said:


> Some woman was SERIOUSLY complaining about the color of my chain "Oil Slick"...I tried to ease her mind by saying I only lubricate it with Baby Seal Tears....well, that really put her over the edge. I do wish I was kidding.


Us enthusiasts really will do anything for our bikes


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

CGriffen said:


> Some woman was SERIOUSLY complaining about the color of my chain "Oil Slick"...I tried to ease her mind by saying I only lubricate it with Baby Seal Tears....well, that really put her over the edge. I do wish I was kidding.


Here it is being harvested:










The guy just sits and delivers biting remarks and personal insults while filling up the bottles.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

FrankS29 said:


> The guy just sits and delivers biting remarks and personal insults while filling up the bottles.


I prefer to harvest mine by beating them with a walrus tusk.


----------



## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

By the time that you add NSK pivot bearings, a shock tune and shock needle bearings, most carbon frames get well over $4000 with tax. Fork tunes add quite a bit also. Wheelsets get crazy expensive when you get the more expensive hubs and hoops. As has been said, $10,000 really isn't very expensive anymore. I'm not crazy rich, but I do everything that I enjoy to the best that I can do and afford. It's a lifestyle and a mentality that I respect in any type of sport or hobby. It doesn't matter whether it's the motorcycles above, all of the different variations of cycling that I do, or waxing your vehicle.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^
Would that be considered a performance enhancer?


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## AEyogi (Nov 19, 2021)

The economics of the mountain bike is weird. If I look at the actual product, it does not seem like it is worth what it costs; but if I consider how many thousands of hours I will spend on it and the goofy smile I get on a good ride, the cost becomes meaningless in comparison to the benefit. Anyone criticizing someone else for investing in this hobby should piss off.


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^
> Would that be considered a performance enhancer?


Definitely!


----------



## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

TTTURNER said:


> By the time that you add NSK pivot bearings, a shock tune and shock needle bearings, most carbon frames get well over $4000 with tax. Fork tunes add quite a bit also. Wheelsets get crazy expensive when you get the more expensive hubs and hoops. As has been said, $10,000 really isn't very expensive anymore. I'm not crazy rich, but I do everything that I enjoy to the best that I can do and afford. It's a lifestyle and a mentality that I respect in any type of sport or hobby. It doesn't matter whether it's the motorcycles above, all of the different variations of cycling that I do, or waxing your vehicle.


Yes, it seems $10k is the high end factory build for most manufacturers. But my question is… if you have owned a $10k MTB… is it worth it? People are saying it’s worth it to them because it’s something they love doing for various reasons… but you don’t need to spend $10k to have a high performance, robust MTB. 

From my perspective having recently owned $10k and $5k versions of the same bike (XX1 Transition Spur, and the GX version), is that the difference in ride, handling, feel, and timed performance is hardly perceptible and waffles in favor of each build in different perspectives.


----------



## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

AEyogi said:


> The economics of the mountain bike is weird. If I look at the actual product, it does not seem like it is worth what it costs; but if I consider how many thousands of hours I will spend on it and the goofy smile I get on a good ride, the cost becomes meaningless in comparison to the benefit. Anyone criticizing someone else for investing in this hobby should piss off.


It is weird, but I actually can't imagine not spending to get a quality bike because of all of the enjoyment that my bikes bring me. I ride my bikes for many years and I do not start looking for the next bike as soon as I finish a build. Who has time for that? I spend the time to find the right top performing parts so that I don't often feel like I need to replace a poor performing or outdated part immediately after I have installed it. $10,000 seems ridiculous at first sight, but it really isn't much when you consider how much time I spend on my bikes.


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> Yes, it seems $10k is the high end factory build for most manufacturers. But my question is… if you have owned a $10k MTB… is it worth it? People are saying it’s worth it to them because it’s something they love doing for various reasons… but you don’t need to spend $10k to have a high performance, robust MTB.
> 
> From my perspective having recently owned $10k and $5k versions of the same bike (XX1 Transition Spur, and the GX version), is that the difference in ride, handling, feel, and timed performance is hardly perceptible and waffles in favor of each build in different perspectives.


I'm not a big guy and I climb very steep hills. It is a lot more enjoyable when you have a lighter bike. I could certainly still have fun on a $5000 bike, but most guys that are fit that spend a lot of time riding in steep areas will tell you that the extra cost to save weight is worth it if the parts are still reasonably durable. I think that GX and XT builds are fine for most people, but I'm not most people and I don't ride the same terrain as most people. I have no problem riding a GX level part if it does something better or it replaces a top level part that can't be trusted. I just want the lightest best performing bike for my type of riding.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

TTTURNER said:


> My large SUV has white rhino scrotum sack leather. My bike saddle was custom made to match


I have heard rhino scrotum sack saddles cause chafing, that is why I use dolphin skin. Far softer, but you have to keep it wet at all times.


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## baitdragger (Feb 6, 2007)

TTTURNER said:


> By the time that you add NSK pivot bearings, a shock tune and shock needle bearings, most carbon frames get well over $4000 with tax. Fork tunes add quite a bit also. Wheelsets get crazy expensive when you get the more expensive hubs and hoops. As has been said, $10,000 really isn't very expensive anymore. I'm not crazy rich, but I do everything that I enjoy to the best that I can do and afford. It's a lifestyle and a mentality that I respect in any type of sport or hobby. It doesn't matter whether it's the motorcycles above, all of the different variations of cycling that I do, or waxing your vehicle.


Agree. But the OP was talking about retail builds.

I think most would agree a custom build up of a SC frame, saddle that you actually
Enjoy sitting on, hydra I9’s, bike yolk dropper, XT 4pots, xo1, factory sus and a carbon bar, decent tires and that’a $10k one can stomach.


But I think the OP was talking about who would spend the $9,800 on some project manager pick GX AXS build with RS brakes, $40 saddle and a dropper that can’t be rebuilt. 
Maybe I read the post wrong


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

baitdragger said:


> Agree. But the OP was talking about retail builds.
> 
> I think most would agree a SC frame, hydra I9’s, bike yolk dropper, XT 4pots, xo1, factory sus and a carbon bar, decent tires and that’a $10k one can stomach.
> But I think the OP was talking about who would spend the $9,800 on some project manager pick GX AXS build with RS brakes and a dropper that can’t be rebuilt.
> Maybe I read the post wrong


Even without these upgrades, many of the frame makers are offering $10,000 retail builds. As I said in an earlier post, some of those off the shelf retail mountain bike builds look to be more to my liking and a better value than they used to be. Not so much for road bikes. My local big name bike retailer sells quite a few of these $10,000 plus bikes. The shop is located in a very wealthy area though. The shops in wealthy areas sell more of these expensive bikes than you would think. If I were the OP, I would ask someone at Specialized and other large bike companies at a trade show his question. It doesn't appear that we have anyone in the bike industry on mtbr that knows or is willing to divulge the numbers. It might influence our buying habits!


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

Cary said:


> I have heard rhino scrotum sack saddles cause chafing, that is why I use dolphin skin. Far softer, but you have to keep it wet at all times.


I'm on it! Dolphin hunting has officially been put on tomorrow's scheduleThat is why we visit mtbr. I wanna know what is and isn't working.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Ogre said:


> The dictionary has said that motorcycles are bikes since the dawn of time.


Perhaps we should change the name of the site here to Dirtbike Review.com


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

eri said:


> I think the wealth distribution in the country is shameful. In particular a 10k bike in 2022 means youve got a complete disregard for the value of things. In the same league as people that dont wash their clothes and just wear new.
> 
> Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.
> 
> i dont fault being able to afford a thing, $10k is nothing compared to cars and housing, or a quality violin. what i fault is actually buying dumb overpriced stuff. $7k… ok. But $10k off the rack? In current market thats just ignorant and youre a victim of marketing. Like those fine chronographs i see plastered on billboards and magazines.


We’ll I’m feeling no shame. I chose a tough field of study with extremely high demand. Labor markets reward that sort of decision. I worked hard for 40 years and lived frugally but generously. Now I’m spending and giving based on my priorities. Some choose expensive boats, violins, wines, travel, aircraft, cars, and homes. Many folks whiz it away year after year with no idea where their income went after a lifetime of small, mindless indulgences. We each choose our own vocations, financial goals, lifestyles, faiths, interests, and our resulting spending priorities. That is exactly as it should be.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

CGriffen said:


> I prefer to harvest mine by beating them with a walrus tusk.


I only accept my seal's tears if the seal has been beaten with a whale penis.


----------



## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

93EXCivic said:


> I only accept my seal's tears if the seal has been beaten with a whale penis.


Does the penis still have to be attached?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

TTTURNER said:


> Does the penis still have to be attached?


Wouldn't that involve a sea otter? Those horny bastards.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

was curious, the S-Works SJ is currently priced at 11k. Added up all of the parts at msrp w/frame - total cost about $9800, which is what it used to retail at before the latest price hike.

Maybe SC jacked their frame only prices by $1000 or more to solve this discrepancy that some people might be discovering between builds and OEM.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

People with rules on what's ok to spend in relation to wealth disparity in our country (pretty arbitrary) and what you should do with your money are funny.

BTW, you can spend 10k on a bike and give money to charitable causes (like foodbanks, Greenpeace, pick whatever you want etc.) at the same time. Not hard.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Or hundreds to thousands of hours volunteering as well. Actually, those hours are ultimately probably really worth more.


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> Wouldn't that involve a sea otter? Those horny bastards.


Those things are scary horny. I don't want any penis coming at me, much less one that magically appears from wet fur!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

TTTURNER said:


> Those things are scary horny. I don't want any penis coming at me, much less one that magically appears from wet fur!


They also have a baculum, so there's a bone in that bone!


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

dysfunction said:


> They also have a baculum, so there's a bone in that bone!


So unlike humans, they really do get a boner! Wait, are we off topic again? Sorry not sorry to the OP!


----------



## BuzzinHornets (Sep 17, 2005)

eri said:


> I think the wealth distribution in the country is shameful. In particular a 10k bike in 2022 means youve got a complete disregard for the value of things. In the same league as people that dont wash their clothes and just wear new.
> 
> Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.
> 
> i dont fault being able to afford a thing, $10k is nothing compared to cars and housing, or a quality violin. what i fault is actually buying dumb overpriced stuff. $7k… ok. But $10k off the rack? In current market thats just ignorant and youre a victim of marketing. Like those fine chronographs i see plastered on billboards and magazines.


“Wealth distribution”….. How about instead of people waiting for the wealth to be distributed they go out and earn their piece of the pie? Fuc**ng commie bullsh*t.


----------



## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

TTTURNER said:


> So unlike humans, they really do get a boner! Wait, are we off topic again? Sorry not sorry to the OP!


I have 2 otter dick bones I impulsively bought a few years ago at a gas station in Mt Caramel, Utah near Zion.


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## Haggis (Jan 21, 2004)

My 10K+ bike. Wouldn't pay that much for anything with pedals, but I know plenty of folk who do..


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## TTTURNER (May 13, 2009)

C Smasher said:


> I have 2 otter dick bones I impulsively bought a few years at a gas station in Mt Caramel, Utah near Zion.


Fascinating! I'm ok with that as long as you don't use them on someone That could make it a little weird.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

TTTURNER said:


> Fascinating! I'm ok with that as long as you don't use them on someone That could make it a little weird.



Different stroke for different folks...for instance, my stroke is 120...others on this site are 180....I think I am getting a complex.


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

BuzzinHornets said:


> “Wealth distribution”….. How about instead of people waiting for the wealth to be distributed they instead go out and earn their piece of the pie? Fuc**ng commie bullsh*t.


Any able bodied, able minded person can make money a million different ways in this country. The limiting factors are your individual decision making, your drive, your effort, your personal accountability. The only people who may need “distribution” of wealth are mentally and or physically disabled people.

“Give money to teachers”… do a quick search on teacher salaries, benefits, and time off. You will be amazed, and wonder where this never ending notion of underpaid teachers comes from.


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## AlpineVulpine (Feb 6, 2021)

C Smasher said:


> I have 2 otter dick bones I impulsively bought a few years ago at a gas station in Mt Caramel, Utah near Zion.


There's a different thread for impulse buys. Make sure you cross post.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

eri said:


> I think the wealth distribution in the country is shameful. In particular a 10k bike in 2022 means youve got a complete disregard for the value of things. In the same league as people that dont wash their clothes and just wear new.
> 
> Give that money to a teacher you appreciate, or hang out at walmart and buy groceries for random people. Or trail advocacy. Maybe something for global warming? Lots of things better than just burning it to help console your ignorance.
> 
> i dont fault being able to afford a thing, $10k is nothing compared to cars and housing, or a quality violin. what i fault is actually buying dumb overpriced stuff. $7k… ok. But $10k off the rack? In current market thats just ignorant and youre a victim of marketing. Like those fine chronographs i see plastered on billboards and magazines.


You wanna have participation trophies for the slacker on the sofa? Is it another person's responsibility to cater to the sort that goes for no work or minimum wage opportunities? 
What is arrogant and beyond selfish is expecting the fruits of another's labor to be stripped from them while gifting it to the person that refuses to participate in life and bloody grow up while becoming responsible. 

Just no thankya!!!


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> You wanna have participation trophies for the slacker on the sofa?


Wait, those parents are here? 

It was ALWAYS the parents that demanded those.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> Any able bodied, able minded person can make money a million different ways in this country. The limiting factors are your individual decision making, your drive, your effort, your personal accountability. The only people who may need “distribution” of wealth are mentally and or physically disabled people.
> 
> “Give money to teachers”… do a quick search on teacher salaries, benefits, and time off. You will be amazed, and wonder where this never ending notion of underpaid teachers comes from.


Disabled have disability and medicare... Jus' sayin'! Teachers coulda chosen a different vocation however, all the down time they have, at least they can ride bikes across the nation cause they have the time for it.



dysfunction said:


> Wait, those parents are here?
> 
> It was ALWAYS the parents that demanded those.


Among the things people are doing...


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> Disabled have disability and medicare... Jus' sayin'! Teachers coulda chosen a different vocation however, all the down time they have, at least they can ride bikes across the nation cause they have the time for it.


I know a lot of teachers, pretty much every one of them works in the summer just to get by. It's not as simple as it always seems.

I also think we'd all be a whole lot better off if we just treated each other like we'd like to be treated. Go ahead and crucify me for that belief.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

dysfunction said:


> I know a lot of teachers, pretty much every one of them works in the summer just to get by. It's not as simple as it always seems.
> 
> I also think we'd all be a whole lot better off if we just treated each other like we'd like to be treated. Go ahead and crucify me for that belief.



I will not...
Frankly, there is the option of taking on other work during extended time off. Many do utilize that time wisely. 

Today's world made common courtesy, respect and kindness obsolete. It is up to the people to get their heads on their shoulders and return to that.
Meanwhile, some of us have not succumbed to such ludicrous behavior.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

This is why I pay for nice bikes...


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> I will not...
> Frankly, there is the option of taking on other work during extended time off. Many do utilize that time wisely.
> 
> Today's world made common courtesy, respect and kindness obsolete. It is up to the people to get their heads on their shoulders and return to that.
> Meanwhile, some of us have not succumbed to such ludicrous behavior.


You won't what?


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

numbnuts said:


> That’s a street triple. This is a speed triple . And yup, they were great bikes!
> View attachment 2005144


Still are great bikes. Lol.


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## Tallboy723 (4 mo ago)

zvonler said:


> You wouldn't like Streetie when she's angry.
> View attachment 2005179


Sweet pic.


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## baitdragger (Feb 6, 2007)

Wow. This thread has it all. Let’s close it down. $10k bikes, beating things with whale penises, teacher salaries. Quite the cornucopia!


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## C Smasher (Apr 20, 2012)

AlpineVulpine said:


> There's a different thread for impulse buys. Make sure you cross post.


Done!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I rarely buy complete bikes, most expensive to date was my wife’s Shuttle at $6500.

All my bikes are frame up builds, even my wheels are custom built by me or someone like Mikesee.

That said, my builds still wouldn’t crack the 10k margin, I just don’t find the need to build bikes with pricey parts, I tend to splurge on suspension, hubs, tires, and brakes, but the rest is all moderately priced and durable parts.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

dysfunction said:


> You won't what?


Crucify you. No need for that.


----------



## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

93EXCivic said:


> I only accept my seal's tears if the seal has been beaten with a whale penis.


would you be okay with just the oosik?


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## crunkle (3 mo ago)

CGriffen said:


> This is why I pay for nice bikes...
> 
> View attachment 2005404


You spend 10k+ on a bicycle for little digital trophies?


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

crunkle said:


> You spend 10k+ on a bicycle for little digital trophies?



Yes. I also pay over $100k for cars to get just about the same. The variable is I am the engine, can not say so much for driving (then again, NASCAR has been as big as football for years).


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

CGriffen said:


> Yes. I also pay over $100k for cars to get just about the same. The variable is I am the engine, can not say so much for driving (*then again, NASCAR has been as big as football for years*).


Am I reading this to say that NASCAR is as popular as the NFL? 

Because if that's the case, it 100% is not even close. 

NASCAR Cup Series average TV audience in the U.S. 2022 | Statista 

NFL Monday Night Football TV viewership 2022 | Statista 

Monday Night games alone draw about 3-4x the average viewers and the Super Bowl draws nearly 100 million viewers a year. Daytona 500 peaked at 19 million viewers in 2006, and it has been steadily declining since, 2021 Daytona 500 pulled in less than 5 million viewers.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

Obviously the numbers that I thought I had heard were way way off. Plus, many intelligent people have totally walked away from Nascar in recent years


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## lewis9 (Jan 12, 2020)

Yes I'm mainly a roadie and a bike snob. 
Not even sure what I paid at the time of purchase. Around 6500? Cervelo gave me an ambassador program discount. 
Rode it for a yr and then sold it.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> “Give money to teachers”… do a quick search on teacher salaries, benefits, and time off. You will be amazed, and wonder where this never ending notion of underpaid teachers comes from.


Lolz. What a load of bs. My wife is a teacher and with a masters degree and National Board certification she just barely makes more then what I made starting as an engineer with a bachelors degree plus the benefit of dealing with a-holes who have no kids or experience in the school system inserting their ideas into the education and parents who either don't give a damn or think their little kid could do no harm. Plus the summer break just keeps getting shorter and shorter as states add more school days or professional development days and they work massive amounts of hours outside school hours during the school year. Most teachers I know are on either anxiety meds or anti-depressants or are ex-teachers. Pensions keep getting cut, benefits keep getting worse, rarely do raises keep up with even other industry standard raises.

I don't think most teachers leave the teaching profession because of the lack of pay but I think it keeps people to going to into the teaching profession. Also in many states in order to teach at the high school level, you have to have a degree in what ever you are teaching. So let's see you could make like $35k starting as a teacher with a math degree or probably near twice that in other industries. For the level of education that you have to have to be a teacher, they are almost certainly underpaid and I'd argue there is not a single more important job for the future of this country then teachers.


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

Sir kayakalot said:


> None of this adds up. You can buy a bike at Walmart for $200. So you are saying it’s ok to spend $7k on one but someone is ignorant and a victim of marketing if they spend $10k?


Look, I was at the Chris king open house last week. Gorgeous bikes in there by custom builders and probably I could have purchased 95% of them for less than $10k. The most beautiful bikes, custom paint, etc, etc. works of art, something for the ages.

What I think is frivolous is going onto a web site and paying 10k for an off the shelf non customized bike. It’s Michael milken territory. The story where he went to exclusive ny restaurant, refused to look at menu and just had them bring him one of everything so he could browse?


----------



## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

eri said:


> What I think is frivolous is going onto a web site and paying 10k for an off the shelf non customized bike. It’s Michael milken territory. The story where he went to exclusive ny restaurant, refused to look at menu and just had them bring him one of everything so he could browse?


Jeez man, calm down. One thing to call a customer s dentist. You've left the planet when you're comparing them to a criminal who plead guilty to felonies, served 22 months in prison and was fined 200 million dollars.


----------



## Jimmy Curry (Jul 12, 2021)

TTTURNER said:


> Us enthusiasts really will do anything for our bikes


Or you could use Mink Oil. Comes in what looks like a basic shoe polish can. I have no idea if it's actually from Minks,,,lol!


----------



## start_sendit_stop (Mar 23, 2021)

she was actually 11,354.99 but i couldnt wait to post her


----------



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

eri said:


> Look, I was at the Chris king open house last week. Gorgeous bikes in there by custom builders and probably I could have purchased 95% of them for less than $10k. The most beautiful bikes, custom paint, etc, etc. works of art, something for the ages.
> 
> What I think is frivolous is going onto a web site and paying 10k for an off the shelf non customized bike. It’s Michael milken territory. The story where he went to exclusive ny restaurant, refused to look at menu and just had them bring him one of everything so he could browse?


I don’t think we’re on the same page


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

mlx john said:


> BTW, you can spend 10k on a bike and give money to charitable causes (like foodbanks, Greenpeace, pick whatever you want etc.) at the same time. Not hard.


Maybe if you're an oral hygiene professional....


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

lewis9 said:


> Yes I'm mainly a roadie and a bike snob.
> Not even sure what I paid at the time of purchase. Around 6500? Cervelo gave me an ambassador program discount.
> Rode it for a yr and then sold it.
> View attachment 2005543


That is absolutely gorgeous. How'd you like it? Looks like instant power!


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

93EXCivic said:


> Lolz. What a load of bs. My wife is a teacher and with a masters degree and National Board certification she just barely makes more then what I made starting as an engineer with a bachelors degree plus the benefit of dealing with a-holes who have no kids or experience in the school system inserting their ideas into the education and parents who either don't give a damn or think their little kid could do no harm. Plus the summer break just keeps getting shorter and shorter as states add more school days or professional development days and they work massive amounts of hours outside school hours during the school year. Most teachers I know are on either anxiety meds or anti-depressants or are ex-teachers. Pensions keep getting cut, benefits keep getting worse, rarely do raises keep up with even other industry standard raises.
> 
> I don't think most teachers leave the teaching profession because of the lack of pay but I think it keeps people to going to into the teaching profession. Also in many states in order to teach at the high school level, you have to have a degree in what ever you are teaching. So let's see you could make like $35k starting as a teacher with a math degree or probably near twice that in other industries. For the level of education that you have to have to be a teacher, they are almost certainly underpaid and I'd argue there is not a single more important job for the future of this country then teachers.


It is indeed a tough gig with more demands than ever. Educators would be much happier if they could practice their craft without so much draining oversight.


----------



## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Crankout said:


> It is indeed a tough gig with more demands than ever. Educators would be much happier if they could practice their craft without so much draining oversight.


That’s the reason my wife retired two years ago. She absolutely loved the kids and loved the job, but the red tape finally broke her


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> Disabled have disability and medicare... Jus' sayin'! Teachers coulda chosen a different vocation however, all the down time they have, at least they can ride bikes across the nation cause they have the time for it.
> 
> 
> 
> Among the things people are doing...


So what happens when all of them choose a different vocation?

Our country has benefitted massively from public education; that appears to be on the downward slope. The respect for the teaching profession has evaporated and the pay sucks. Turns out, teachers don’t like being treated like ****, and as you pointed out, they CAN do other things for a living. That’s why they are leaving in droves on some areas.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lewis9 (Jan 12, 2020)

Crankout said:


> That is absolutely gorgeous. How'd you like it? Looks like instant power!


Amazing on flats and Crits. 
But it's super uncomfortable and maintenance nightmare.


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> So what happens when all of them choose a different vocation?
> 
> Our country has benefitted massively from public education; that appears to be on the downward slope. Turns out, teachers don’t like being treated like ****, and as you pointed out, they CAN do other things for a living. That’s why they are leaving in droves on some areas.
> 
> ...


Sounds like the labor market will be forced to correct itself. 

There have been gluts of teachers in many areas for years. This forces down wages and typically leads to poor job satisfaction as districts know there are plenty of people sitting behind existing teachers more than willing to deal with the BS. 

People also have to realize that if they want better teachers, better programs and education, you're probably going to see higher taxes. The $$$ has to come from somewhere.


----------



## NC_Foothills_Rider (11 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> Yeti should release a new '23 model called the Root Canal.
> 
> =sParty


Wait till you see the full XTR "Breast Enlargement" Special.


----------



## kmccune (Sep 25, 2021)

AEyogi said:


> The economics of the mountain bike is weird. If I look at the actual product, it does not seem like it is worth what it costs; but if I consider how many thousands of hours I will spend on it and the goofy smile I get on a good ride, the cost becomes meaningless in comparison to the benefit. Anyone criticizing someone else for investing in this hobby should piss off.


 I GUESS YOU HAVE TO BE A MTBR TO UNDERSTAND. sORRY ABOUT THE CAPS i CAN NEVER GET USED TO DIFFERENT KEYBOARD


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

FrankS29 said:


> The $$$ has to come from somewhere.


Nah, we can just continue to reduce income and spend more. Seems to work, just look at the average American household.

I do, however, always laugh when people who benefitted from public education want to get rid of it. "It was fine for me, but you don't get it!"


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## yossarian (May 24, 2006)

CGriffen said:


> This is why I pay for nice bikes...
> 
> View attachment 2005404





CGriffen said:


> Yes. I also pay over $100k for cars to get just about the same. The variable is I am the engine, can not say so much for driving (then again, NASCAR has been as big as football for years).


Ooof.


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

93EXCivic said:


> Lolz. What a load of bs. My wife is a teacher and with a masters degree and National Board certification she just barely makes more then what I made starting as an engineer with a bachelors degree plus the benefit of dealing with a-holes who have no kids or experience in the school system inserting their ideas into the education and parents who either don't give a damn or think their little kid could do no harm. Plus the summer break just keeps getting shorter and shorter as states add more school days or professional development days and they work massive amounts of hours outside school hours during the school year. Most teachers I know are on either anxiety meds or anti-depressants or are ex-teachers. Pensions keep getting cut, benefits keep getting worse, rarely do raises keep up with even other industry standard raises.
> 
> I don't think most teachers leave the teaching profession because of the lack of pay but I think it keeps people to going to into the teaching profession. Also in many states in order to teach at the high school level, you have to have a degree in what ever you are teaching. So let's see you could make like $35k starting as a teacher with a math degree or probably near twice that in other industries. For the level of education that you have to have to be a teacher, they are almost certainly underpaid and I'd argue there is not a single more important job for the future of this country then teachers.


I’m seeing an average of $50k in the lowest paid states and an average of $90k in the highest. 









Best States for Teacher Pay in 2022 | Business.org


Does your state pay your teachers what they’re worth? Business.org investigates average teacher pay by state to find out.




www.business.org





I also have a teacher in the family. She enjoys teaching, and particularly enjoys the time off. She routinely spends Summers vacationing all over, and virtually every national and state holiday reminding me that she has had the day off. And of course Winter break and Spring break. And all of that is before actual paid vacation time, and sick time.


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## Noeserd (Apr 13, 2018)

It's almost like 10 grand+ bike owners doesn't read forums


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

FrankS29 said:


> Makes me wish we could all just get back to talking about normal things, like buying boner bones and being mean to baby seals.


.. and otter schlongs.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> I’m seeing an average of $50k in the lowest paid states and an average of $90k in the highest.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The national average teacher makes $61k. I don't know how you consider that good pay for a profession where over half the members have a master's degree. Many states teacher salaries are declining compared to other occupations.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Noeserd said:


> It's almost like 10 grand+ bike owners doesn't read forums


As previously mentioned, I think it's more to do with the fact that the qualifying rules for the thread are kind of unrealistic. People spending $10k+ are most likely having it built (or building tit themselves) to their personal spec preferences.


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

93EXCivic said:


> The national average teacher makes $61k. I don't know how you consider that good pay for a profession where over half the members have a master's degree. Many states teacher salaries are declining compared to other occupations.


Your source, my source… clearly the pay is regionally adjusted much like any other pay.

Lets take your source, $61k… but put it into perspective. The reality is that a public school teaching position is a part time job. It’s essentially 2/3 of a year. Should they be paid for not working? Easy math extrapolates $61k for 2/3 of a year to $93k for a full year. I’d say that’s a fair salary.

Degrees get you into a job… they don’t dictate pay. That part is on you… perform well and get paid.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Ummmm, teaching is not 2/3 of the year


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## wolfmw (Dec 18, 2020)

keep up the good work guys, this thread is really moving now!  

but to the original question, I suspect at least some of the people buying $10k off-the-shelf bikes think that kind of money is pocket change and give 0 Fs what components are really on it. No thought, no research, no nerding out on spoke weights or damper tunes, just walk into a shop and buy the "best". I bet they don't even know they're supposed to get on mtbr and argue about it.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> Your source, my source… clearly the pay is regionally adjusted much like any other pay.
> 
> Lets take your source, $61k… but put it into perspective. The reality is that a public school teaching position is a part time job. It’s essentially 2/3 of a year. Should they be paid for not working? Easy math extrapolates $61k for 2/3 of a year to $93k for a full year. I’d say that’s a fair salary.
> 
> Degrees get you into a job… they don’t dictate pay. That part is on you… perform well and get paid.


I am literally quoting the source you posted... I see you 100% read that. /s

You really don't know anything about teaching if you think it they work 2/3rds of the year. My wife gets a month-ish in the summer (by the time she takes down the room, sets up the room and does professional development), a week in the fall, a week in the spring and a week in a half. She only has 3 personal days outside of that a year. I am pretty confident that isn't 2/3rds of a year that is before they spend time after school and on the weekend doing work.

And I don't know what the last part of your post has to do anything. Pay scale of teachers is determined by the state and city not by performance. You are just clueless about the teaching profession.


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## Zerort (Jan 21, 2013)

From just wanting to see if anyone was actually buying a $10,000 plus bike like a new S-works Epic, to arguing about teacher's salaries.

I wonder if Astronauts make a fair salary or if the food on the space station is any good? Geesh.

Carry on....


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Zerort said:


> From just wanting to see if anyone was actually buying a $10,000 plus bike like a new S-works Epic, to arguing about teacher's salaries.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Hey, that’s whale penis leather! ^^^^^


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## MrEconomics (Aug 23, 2004)

BIGTIMEBALLER said:


> Your source, my source… clearly the pay is regionally adjusted much like any other pay.
> 
> Lets take your source, $61k… but put it into perspective. The reality is that a public school teaching position is a part time job. It’s essentially 2/3 of a year. Should they be paid for not working? Easy math extrapolates $61k for 2/3 of a year to $93k for a full year. I’d say that’s a fair salary.
> 
> Degrees get you into a job… they don’t dictate pay. That part is on you… perform well and get paid.


i have a doctorate in economics and finance. You dont think those degrees dictated my pay? I will pay a doctorate degree at almost $100k more than masters degree, regardless of experience. In economics and finance, a PhD after your name is significant. An MBA is the new BBA. Performance does matter a lot but don’t think for a second a degree “only gets you the job”. 

for those arguing teacher pay… when you factor in the positive externalities of public education (public good), teachers are grossly underpaid. Especially now they are dealing with right wing wackos with no kids trying to control school boards. America does not value education, which is why we are ranked so low compared to developed nations.


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## chipconstant (Sep 16, 2011)

baitdragger said:


> Wow. This thread has it all. Let’s close it down. $10k bikes, beating things with whale penises, teacher salaries. Quite the cornucopia!


Opinions are like…wow. What people are willing to put online is astounding.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

MrEconomics said:


> . America does not value education, which is why we are ranked so low compared to developed nations.


Way way way off topic. We need to do the Teachers Union what Reagan did to ATC in 1981. Every now and again we get some of our staff wanting to create a Union, within hours they are wanting a new job (quite seriously). What broke the education system in the US that that merit and ability have been offset by color, gender, nationality and sexual proclivities. But, no matter what anything thinks...two plus two will always be four. Only when teachers are paid for performance will anything change (and then they will 'teach to test' to validate their own worth). The system is broken, there is no easy fix...

Oddly, the craziest nuttiest and most offensive person on our local trail system (who has been known to yell F-Bombs at 13 year old girls and tell off 9 year old boys for blocking trails)...well, she is a public school librarian.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Crankout said:


> It is indeed a tough gig with more demands than ever. Educators would be much happier if they could practice their craft without so much draining oversight.


Consider a private school? My previous church operated a wonderful school with zero red tape. My wife volunteered there regularly. Great atmosphere and place to work. Parents were highly engaged too.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

FrankS29 said:


> Sounds like the labor market will be forced to correct itself.
> 
> There have been gluts of teachers in many areas for years. This forces down wages and typically leads to poor job satisfaction as districts know there are plenty of people sitting behind existing teachers more than willing to deal with the BS.
> 
> People also have to realize that if they want better teachers, better programs and education, you're probably going to see higher taxes. The $$$ has to come from somewhere.


IIRC my state spends about $17,000 per student, so there's plenty of money without raising taxes, right? The other complaint is a stifling bureaucracy. We could solve both problems at once by whacking the bureaucracy. Presto, highly paid teachers left alone to teach. Administrators would need to find productive jobs elsewhere, however. The same prescription could reform incredibly expensive colleges. Slash administrative bloat and focus on the things that add value and address the core mission. Businesses do this all the time because they must to survive.


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## yossarian (May 24, 2006)

CGriffen said:


> We need to do the Teachers Union what Reagan did to ATC in 1981.


Ooof.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

CGriffen said:


> Way way way off topic. We need to do the Teachers Union what Reagan did to ATC in 1981. Every now and again we get some of our staff wanting to create a Union, within hours they are wanting a new job (quite seriously). What broke the education system in the US that that merit and ability have been offset by color, gender, nationality and sexual proclivities. But, no matter what anything thinks...two plus two will always be four. Only when teachers are paid for performance will anything change (and then they will 'teach to test' to validate their own worth).


Ummm...nope. That'd be like paying docs dependent upon the health of each patient they see. 

Good try, though.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Crankout said:


> Ummm...nope. That'd be like paying docs dependent upon the health of each patient they see.
> 
> Good try, though.


Actually, I grade my doc by his ability to* improve* my health.

It's pretty simple to measure effectiveness. Test at the beginning and end of each school year. A key part of teacher performance should be improvement. No improvement means something's gone wrong (the teacher, undisiplined environment, whatever, but the school system/process must own the problem) and adjustments are needed.

Every job gets assessed in the private sector. Sometimes it's difficult but its critical to drive improvement and to weed out the underperformers. A recent study in Illinois showed Decatur and Chicago schools producing over 50% illiterate 3rd graders while virtually 100% of teachers were graded "satisfactory" or better. I've never seen a group of management employees in my career without at least 5-10% who required some improvement to reach "satisfactory". Teachers cannot be any different. They don't all walk on water.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Dkayak said:


> Consider a private school?


How can I pay for private school when I need a high dollar ride?


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

Cleared2land said:


> How can I pay for private school when I need a high dollar ride?


I was riding a used Caloi with NO suspension at the time. IIRC, I paid $200 for it, but it had been upgraded to XTR and ended up being one of my all-time favorite bikes. Can't explain exactly why though. Fun memories learning on it? Nice and light, so very responsive? Seasons of life. A favorite car in that era was an old rusted out VW Rabbit diesel that I bought used with 120,000 miles and sold at 220,000 miles to a guy who drove it to 325,000 miles. Guess I appreciate simple, reliable machines.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Dkayak said:


> IIRC my state spends about $17,000 per student, so there's plenty of money without raising taxes, right? The other complaint is a stifling bureaucracy. We could solve both problems at once by whacking the bureaucracy. Presto, highly paid teachers left alone to teach. Administrators would need to find productive jobs elsewhere, however. The same prescription could reform incredibly expensive colleges. Slash administrative bloat and focus on the things that add value and address the core mission. Businesses do this all the time because they must to survive.


A lot of this is going to be highly regional. We purposely purchased a house in the school district that we wanted (same district my wife and I graduated from). It has some of the highest school taxes in the region. I wanted a good education for my children, so I didn't shy away from paying higher taxes. I know people that did the opposite and they all either complain about the school and teachers, or they send their kids to private schools that cost a ton more than the taxes that they tried to avoid. 

Our teachers average $100k a year and they are great teachers; a lot of people wait for years and years for an opening to show up in our school district. The district has unbelievable resources at its disposal and our kids get an amazing, and impressively targeted education. 

All of this is possible because of the higher taxes we pay.


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## rcrocha (Jul 7, 2008)

FrankS29 said:


> A lot of this is going to be highly regional. We purposely purchased a house in the school district that we wanted (same district my wife and I graduated from). It has some of the highest school taxes in the region. I wanted a good education for my children, so I didn't shy away from paying higher taxes. I know people that did the opposite and they all either complain about the school and teachers, or they send their kids to private schools that cost a ton more than the taxes that they tried to avoid.
> 
> Our teachers average $100k a year and they are great teachers; a lot of people wait for years and years for an opening to show up in our school district. The district has unbelievable resources at its disposal and our kids get an amazing, and impressively targeted education.
> 
> All of this is possible because of the higher taxes we pay.


I partially agree with you as I have had experience with what are considered good schools. I am guessing that is a relatively high cost area to live and in this area most residents have degrees and value education. Typically this will then mean they are involved in the school or at a minimum they are involved with their children's education. This student population will perform much better than a population where education is not a priority. A bad teacher with good students will look significantly better than a good teacher with bad students. Factor in class size and this disparity only gets worse. Not everyone can afford to move to an area where there are good schools.


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## Flyingator (Sep 22, 2021)

Turbo Levo Comp 29er







, 2021, Gen 2, Class 1, under 10k but slightly modified, superior technology, monster all mountain bike, don't hate, hey, think about it, I am a sea-level flat earth Florida rider, 70 years young and still riding Colorado and Utah at 12,000 feet. I must admit, I once hated E-bikes, I now ride twice as far at a faster pace and while enjoying the speed I can maintain. Biggest issue they are addicting, hard to go back to the old Stumpy. Overpriced like everything else in 2022 but it is only money and you can't take it with you.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

rcrocha said:


> I partially agree with you as I have had experience with what are considered good schools. I am guessing that is a relatively high cost area to live and in this area most residents have degrees and value education. Typically this will then mean they are involved in the school or at a minimum they are involved with their children's education. This student population will perform much better than a population where education is not a priority. A bad teacher with good students will look significantly better than a good teacher with bad students. Factor in class size and this disparity only gets worse. Not everyone can afford to move to an area where there are good schools.


It is pretty high cost, and it is usually one of, if not the highest average household income in this area. There used to actually be a pretty decent split of "affordable", older homes all the way up to mansions. After the last 3-4 years though, affordable in my town is pretty much out the window. Many of the older homes nearly doubled in value and new construction is relatively through the roof for this area. 

My neighbor is a school administrator in another district. When they moved to this area they researched the heck out of where to buy a house. They settled on our town because of the school district and our neighborhood because we had some form of racial diversity in our neighborhood as our area historically has been as white as white can be. 

However, it's shocking how many people don't give a rats a$$ about their kids education. When Covid first hit, and schools went remote, my daughter was is in 2nd grade. Her teacher lives down the street from us and we would see her around the neighborhood all the time. Talking with her was eye opening as I assumed similar to you that we came from a "good" area and parents' care. She had almost 15% of her students parents request that she just fail their kids as they were not interested in doing anything with their kids. Guess what, nobody was failed and those students were just pushed through and the parents couldn't give a crap that they just allowed their children to fall that far behind. 

That was just her class, now extrapolate that out to the nearly 10,000 students in our district, and I'm sure the issue got worse as the average age of the child went up. 

Either way, my point is that good schools cost money, schools are funded by taxes. Education will never be equitable. Heck, I have a great district, but it looks like absolute crap compared to the private school my nieces attend in Miami. My sister in-law is massively successful and her kids attend a super elite school that cost more a year than average household income in my area. My nieces go to school with children of celebrities, have the best of the best teachers and experts in their fields as guests in the school, have ex-professional athletes as coaches... 

These kids are practically guaranteed enrollment in Ivy league schools, will leave college with more professional connections already established that practically guarantee high compensation employment fresh out of college. 

People can work their tails off and get all the same stuff, my sister in-law is living proof of it. But she also watched how easily it was handed to a lot of people around her throughout her college and early professional career.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I'll go ahead and apologize for posting on topic.  

_Fishing and cycling are among the ultra-rich’s top ten favorite ways to spend their time, according to new research by wealth intelligence firm New World Wealth and investment migration consultancy Henley & Partners.

Cycling and mountain biking beat skiing to third place, with only golf and art collecting being more popular. Horse riding rounds out the top 5, followed by fishing in sixth place — ahead of classic car collecting, hunting, yachting and watch collecting.

It might be hard to imagine the same people who spend their time buying vintage cars priced as high as $40 million (for a Ferrari 250 GTO from the 1960s) standing in a river waiting for fish to bite or hurtling down mountain biking trails, but the activities have soared in popularity._









From fly fishing to cycling — the new popular pastimes of the ultra-rich


While you might expect the ultra-rich to be all about golf, yachts and skiing, outdoor activities like fly fishing and mountain biking are becoming popular.




www.cnbc.com


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## BIGTIMEBALLER (Jul 7, 2020)

The shine of education and degrees has been tarnished over the recent 25 year period. A degree used to be a good barometer of someone’s intelligence level. But now, we have more people getting watered down degrees, grades are inflated, and the curriculum has shifted to social matters in an attempt at social engineering impressionable children before they have a chance to form their own opinions.

We need another way to identify people with high raw intelligence as opposed to a degree indicating they have served their time in social conditioning camp.


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## CGriffen (11 mo ago)

Flyingator said:


> Turbo Levo Comp 29er Florida rider


Coming to Santos this weekend?


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## mattyb83 (Sep 26, 2017)

I didn’t pay retail and added the wheels from a previous build. He gets used 3-4 days a week with another two on the gravel grinder.


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## ZiggsterZaskar (Jul 25, 2021)

CGriffen said:


> Way way way off topic. We need to do the Teachers Union what Reagan did to ATC in 1981. Every now and again we get some of our staff wanting to create a Union, within hours they are wanting a new job (quite seriously). What broke the education system in the US that that merit and ability have been offset by color, gender, nationality and sexual proclivities. But, no matter what anything thinks...two plus two will always be four. Only when teachers are paid for performance will anything change (and then they will 'teach to test' to validate their own worth). The system is broken, there is no easy fix...
> 
> Oddly, the craziest nuttiest and most offensive person on our local trail system (who has been known to yell F-Bombs at 13 year old girls and tell off 9 year old boys for blocking trails)...well, she is a public school librarian.


This is a mtb forum.......you guys have wayyyyy to much time on your hands


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## cosgti (Jun 14, 2006)

Geeezzz…I just logged in here to see some cool bikes. Scrolling through seems about 2 posts about bikes for every 15 posts about nonsense. Back on topic please.


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## ZiggsterZaskar (Jul 25, 2021)

Well I think this post has gone east and west....you have some people who are insulting and smug because they shoot 100.00 bills out their ass everytime they fart and money is not an issue....good for them.....then you you have the rest of us who realize that a 10,000.00 bike doesn't make you a better rider than if your riding a 4,000.00 to 5,000.00 and, I even scratch my head at those numbers, and unless your a professional racer or triathlon participant, physical and mental strength rules but, that takes work and dedication hence forth the proponents of E-bikes that cost just as much or more than a dirt bike or even a electric powered dirt bike on people powered trails it is frustrating and sad to see where the future of f mtbing is going.....


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