# 10 Signs You Are A Trail Builder



## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

OK, only seven

1) You own more pairs of work gloves than you do neckties
2) Pieces of flagging ribbon are always appearing in the wash
3) You personally own a McLeod 
4) You can’t hike a trail without kicking rocks off of it
5) You never leave home without a couple of trail tools in the car, just in case
6) You are always looking for a new tool that will do the job of a Pulaski, a McLeod and a 5lb Pick Mattock while still folding up small enough to fit in a Camelback.
7) You are more fascinated by tiny excavators and walk-behind mini-dozers than you are by giant excavators and huge bulldozers


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Only need one.

1) You aren't riding, you're building trails.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, I don't actually own a McLeod. 

I do have a chainsaw that I can strap in my backpack.

Good list, btw.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Here's one more:

You look at every flat rock you see anywhere (even in someone's landscaping) as either potential armoring around creek crossings and every chunky rock for bench cut cribbing.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I'll add a couple for wood builders.

You know what a froe is.
You can tell if that lump of moss has solid cedar under it.
You love that smell of fresh split cedar... and the "pop" sound.



Malibu412 said:


> Well, I don't actually own a McLeod.


I have 2, you can borrow one of mine.

That's funny, I don't have a back up bike but I do have a back up McLeod.

Yeah, I resemble that list.

View attachment 587900


Just showing off.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

BTW, what's a necktie?


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## emptybe_er (Jan 15, 2006)

*You're a trail-builder if...*

...you're comfortable enough to hit jumps/rock-gardens/technical-sections/etc. with a machete stashed in your pack.

...you skip watching 'the game' on TV and, instead, venture into lousy weather to "study drainage-patterns".

...the wildlife in the section you're working on call you by name and ask you to watch the chicks/cubs/fawns/larvae/etc. while they "go into the bushes".

...you've reasoned that, hey, you're just swinging an axe/pick/machete/chainsaw/etc., a few beers wouldn't hurt - after all, it's not like you're _riding drunk...._


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Trail Ninja said:


> View attachment 587900


haha nice...


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

emptybe_er said:


> ...you're comfortable enough to hit jumps/rock-gardens/technical-sections/etc. with a machete stashed in your pack.
> 
> ...you skip watching 'the game' on TV and, instead, venture into lousy weather to "study drainage-patterns".
> 
> ...


OK this is getting spooky. I resemble those remarks too except the last one.

Last time I got drunk I ended up married so I quit drinking.

Add:

Walked or rode through a city with a machete sticking out of your pack.

Had a cop stop you with the entire bench seat of your truck full of hatchets, knives and machetes. (He just waved me on, probably didn't want to have to deal with the paperwork)


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

Dead on !!! I can hardly not associate riding without creating new lines anymore,and what's more satisfying then surprising your friends with a newly completed trail.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

You can ride a bike (w/ clipless pedals) with work boots.

You're stopped by a cop, which happen to be a rider, just because he want to know where will be the next great trail you're going to build.

You have a hard time convincing the wife that you need a pumptrack in the backyard but you can convince a national park manager that a downhill trail is what he needs.

You're called a week before a national bike show to build "the most awesome demo area" but you're not allowed a budget until the very last minute.

You can't stop building, unless there is 2ft of snow on the ground.

The correct amount of tools you need is N+1. (see Trail Ninja photo)

You have an account at the hardware store because you buy a lot of nails. And screws. And tools. And...

Your backyard tool shed is actually full of tools. 

Your Camelback weight a ton, even on a normal ride, because you always carry a GPS, clino and flagging ribbon.

You know how to georeference pictures taken on a ride.

Unlike many rider, you are able to define "flow".

Fellow trailbuilders call you at night to figure how to fix a design flaw on their trail and you can actually help them on the phone.

You know most of these acronyms: IMBA, PTBA, TCC, USFS, NP, GIS, RFP/RFQ, 4X, DH, XC, AM, DJ, DS, SD.

You know that "North Shore" is a region, not a way to describe wood features.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

You have reoccuring nightmares about carrying rock bars to the top of a mountain, only to have them roll back down again.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

After a sweaty afternoon of doing full bench cut, you say, "wow this is fun!" and everyone looks at you strange.


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## roguehoe (Nov 27, 2007)

You love the sound a McLeod makes when you are tamping down the fresh dirt on your new bench cut.

You have a Rogue Hoe with your name inscribed into the handle given to you as a gift by the local mtn bike club.


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## Kool (May 20, 2009)

You have a BoB QR skewer permanently attached to your bike.


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## BikeWente (Jan 20, 2010)

My bundle of tools. I wish I had a picture of a few more of the fun toys. But this picture was taken to show what sort of stuff I throw in the Builder Pack.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

- You read this thread and can't find anything that doesn't apply to you.
- A 5 gallon pail is a great find/gift to receive.
- You buy shovel handles by the dozen.

P.S. I was able to convince my wife that a pump track is an OK garden feature.


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## AlloyNipples (Jan 12, 2004)

Not much to add, I fit 99% of what has been said! 

When your buddy crashes, breakes his collar bone... in the parking lot the EMT compliments your usage of 150yds of flagging tap for a sling. True story.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

emptybe_er said:


> ...
> ...you skip watching 'the game' on TV and, instead, venture into lousy weather to "study drainage-patterns".


Ha ha ha, this one is great!

Walt


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

> ...
> ...you skip watching 'the game' on TV and, instead, venture into lousy weather to "study drainage-patterns".


Or do drain maintenance where you can see what works and what does not. Oh yeah!

Little rain never hurt anyone..... 






This is walking in over a mile in the rain to do drain maintenance. :thumbsup:


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Your car usually smells like 2 stroke (spouses LOVE that).

You regularly loses sleep dreaming about carpets of moss.

You've got accounts at both the local hardware store and chainsaw shop where they know you personally.

Always have tool stashes on multiple trails.

You've got rolls of flagging tape in every jacket, pack and vehicle.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

You deeply believe in the addictive nature of trail work and just wish you could get more people to try it for the first time.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

I think this whole thread got upstaged by a new thread just posted a few hours back.  :thumbsup:


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

You are looking for work boots with SPD clips


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

not much to add, but here goes:

You bought a bench grinder just to sharpen your tools.

You realize it's easier to bring a portable grinder to the tools so you have one of those too.

Your yard is a mess because you spend too much time in the woods (according to your neighbor)

Towing capacity of your current or next vehicle is important factor of the purchase decision


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> I'll add a couple for wood builders.
> 
> You know what a froe is.
> You can tell if that lump of moss has solid cedar under it.
> ...


What no draw knife? Think you got the rest pretty much covered. (never mind I just saw it in the upper left corner.)

As for a pump track as a garden feature I'm working on the home landscaping plans. Want it to look normal, yet have ride-able features in the front yard. Back yard is to small. As luck would have it we live in NM so rock is considered an acceptable means of landscaping, just need some ideas of how to string a few things together.


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

crux said:


> What no draw knife? Think you got the rest pretty much covered. (never mind I just saw it in the upper left corner.)


LOL....I almost said the same thing, Love my draw knives!

I do own a froe, but don't really us it for splitting rungs - mostly just clean up duty when I'm trying to get them all level and pretty.looking.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

bweide said:


> 4) You can't hike a trail without kicking rocks off of it


I only get this one, sort of. I'll kick or drag a fallen branch off of a trail, but a rock requires a decision: do I want the rock there or not.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

ebxtreme said:


> LOL....I almost said the same thing, Love my draw knives!
> 
> I do own a froe, but don't really us it for splitting rungs - mostly just clean up duty when I'm trying to get them all level and pretty.looking.


That's what my hand-adz is for. I should update that picture. The collection is 3 times as big now.

Here's a few more for the list:

- You sharpen your shovels.
- Snow is a trail design tool.
- Swinging a Pulaski at your foot in the dark doesn't frighten you (it should but you don't think about it)
- You modify brand new garden tools with a hacksaw, welder and grinder.
- You've walked all the trails at Whistler
- You use the pause button a lot when watching bike videos
- One of your life goals is to meet "Digger" Fiander.
- You don't see anything wrong with sharpening a machete in the Walmart parking lot.
- Somebody says the word "hoe" and you think of the digging tool first.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

You get spam from Ben Meadows.


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## V.P. (Aug 26, 2007)

-when you see "lines" absolutely no one else can.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Rolls of flagging tape aren't enough - your club has actual flags mounted on wire with the club's name and logo printed on them and you use them by the mega-bundle.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

bsieb said:


> You get spam from Ben Meadows.


LOL

+1 on that.


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## hankthespacecowboy (Jun 10, 2004)

Anybody find themselves browsing for high-quality handsaws because they are quieter than chainsaws...?


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

hankthespacecowboy said:


> Anybody find themselves browsing for high-quality handsaws because they are quieter than chainsaws...?


I used to... now that all my trails are legal I choose hand saws for the weight, the environmental impact and the workout I get when I use them.

That big cross cut saw in my picture above is as fast as a small chainsaw in the hands of skilled sawyers.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

OK, I think I need help! 

I just counted my bow saws.... 

7

... just bow saws. There are easily another 20 saws out there.

Is there a support group?


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## PepperJester (Jan 2, 2003)

This is fun. a few more...

I've walked in to the bank with a axe on my back. more then once.
I have more empty chain oil bottles in the car then pop bottles.
Hitting gap jumps with a chain saw on my back doesn't phase me.
A new draw knife was my favorite christmas gift this year.
I keep clogging up the lint trap in the dryer with saw chips.
I try and keep a file in my hyrdopack at all times just in case I run into a dull shovel.


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## th29 (Nov 4, 2004)

You have trailside tool stashes programmed into your GPS.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

th29 said:


> You have trailside tool stashes programmed into your GPS.


Damn, got me again. How many? I have nine........


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*great lists*

a "single track" mind. hee hee


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## Fletcher-Love (Nov 14, 2009)

When you have forgotten how to use your words because you spend more time grunting and cussing to yourself than any real conversation.
When your van can hold enough tools for a 50 person hand crew and still have room enough for a microwave and a bed...
When your wife's favorite question is "when are you going to get a real job?"
When you dream about mini excavators tipping over and stopping them with our bare hands.
When you only own one pair of pants that are actually acceptable to wear out in public.... and your wife actually hides them so you can't wear them to work.


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## Fletcher-Love (Nov 14, 2009)

When you have to build more than just Mt bike trail to keep busy.


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

Fletcher-Love said:


> When you have to build more than just Mt bike trail to keep busy.


i like seeing good rockwork. Worked perdiem on a Hospital job in Anacortes Wa. Brought bikes up to ride after work good trails above town. Riding through the neighborhoods noticed a few houses with really super clean rockwork. Finally saw the guy in action, stopped and chatted with him a bit. He hand splits rocks to get a super smooth show surface, and of course hand places them. Really looked sharp.


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## Fletcher-Love (Nov 14, 2009)

Skookum said:


> i like seeing good rockwork. Worked perdiem on a Hospital job in Anacortes Wa. Brought bikes up to ride after work good trails above town. Riding through the neighborhoods noticed a few houses with really super clean rockwork. Finally saw the guy in action, stopped and chatted with him a bit. He hand splits rocks to get a super smooth show surface, and of course hand places them. Really looked sharp.


 His name is Michael and he calls his company "Michael's Stone and Wood Creations Unltd" He is definitely an artist. He builds with an excavator as well as by hand. I am actually building a trail right now for the city of Anacortes right near the Ferry Terminal. Its a 5 foot wide hiking trail, graveled and with a wooden fence the whole length on either side and 4 viewing decks.


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## Woodman (Mar 12, 2006)

Fletcher-Love said:


> When you have to build more than just Mt bike trail to keep busy.


FL,

Great photos and awesome looking work.

Do you work for Gerry W? I seem to have seen some of those photos, esp the curvy boardwalk on the coast in HI. Am I correct?

Woody- Trail Dynamics


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## Woodman (Mar 12, 2006)

When you own not one, but two Swecos (a 450 and a 480)
When you own more than 1 excavator (1 mini and 1 micro)
When the above is not even 1/2 of the machines you own.
When you can hardly keep track of where you are supposed to be, much less the less of your company staff.
When you have all kinds of really cool tools that few others have ever heard or much less seen (Ibex machine, made in Italy; log wizzard planning blade that bolts onto chainsaw)

Woody- Trail Dynamics LLC


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## Guyfry (Jan 21, 2007)

_Signs You Are A Trail Builder_

Your wife jokes that you have another date with your "Mistress" when you go trail building.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

... and you are contemplating moving in with your mistress.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

Woodman said:


> When you own more than 1 excavator (1 mini and 1 micro)


LOL...

About to replace a 27D with 2 mini-X. A John Deere 17D that will complement the SK650 for singletrack projects, and a 35D that will be used on the bigger job (DH and bike park). I finally found a manufacturer of twist bucket that make what I'm looking for.

Too bad that Kubota and Cat are so freaking expensive, Takeuchi support is non-existent and Yanmar are plastic toys. They were the other options.

Now, it's time to get another flatbed trailer, another ATV and few other little tools.


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## NastyNick (Apr 1, 2008)

You know you're a trail builder when: This is normal gear for a ride....

















Or you can carve something like this, with a Husky 372XPW.









You consider yourself an Earthen Artisan, and your shovel is a paintbrush.


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

Damn that's some wild chainsaw work!










All I have is this bad cell phone pic from tonight. You know you're a trail builder (staying in racing shape during the offseason) if:

You pull a 20lb trailer with a 25lb chainsaw, fuel, and other equipment up and down 17 miles of hills before and after getting to the real work. Complete with headlights and tail lights so you can work until dark.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

When you coordinate your weekend activities with your spouse around your trail activity weekends.


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## faceplant72 (Oct 25, 2009)

If you look at a pile of scrap metal a see potential trail tools.

BTW you cannot make a froe out of a used chipper/planner blade. They shatter when struck with a hammer


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

faceplant72 said:


> If you look at a pile of scrap metal a see potential trail tools.
> 
> BTW you cannot make a froe out of a used chipper/planner blade. They shatter when struck with a hammer


There's your problem right there! Did you see the one in my tool mess above? I used that one for years until I found a local store that sells them.

You're not supposed to use a hammer. I usually cut a wooden mallet while I'm out in the bush.


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## Guitarswheelies (Feb 20, 2005)

I looked at a picture of some hot babe online in an outdoor setting. After looking at this for a second, I noticed that there was a cool tree in the background and the the rock next to it was flat and rideable. The soil looked pretty good and there wasn't too much ground cover, and you could run a line around the tree and over the rock for a cool trail section.


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## 29ftw (Apr 28, 2010)

BikeWente said:


> My bundle of tools. I wish I had a picture of a few more of the fun toys. But this picture was taken to show what sort of stuff I throw in the Builder Pack.


How bout - "you love your tools enough to organize them on a clean Mountain Hardware tarp (or whatever that is!)" Hilarious


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## Smells Like Fish (Feb 19, 2008)

When you install a new stone patio and walkway at home and the kids tell you they like the new rock armoring in the yard.


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## MyOtherBrotherL (Mar 31, 2007)

When it snows less than 2 inches and you use that Jet Engine you call a leaf blower to clean the drive way and a half mile of your neighbors sidewalks.

A major storm comes up and you're the only guy in the neighborhood with an SK-650 and a 6 way blade..........

L

PS The first one is me. The second one is me someday.................


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

29ftw said:


> How bout - "you love your tools enough to organize them on a clean Mountain Hardware tarp (or whatever that is!)" Hilarious


Yeah, I feel bad about throwing mine on the ground like that. And I'm really sorry about the rust on the home-made froe.:sad:


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

MyOtherBrotherL said:


> A major storm comes up and you're the only guy in the neighborhood with an SK-650 and a 6 way blade...........


And how do you think I clear my driveway? With a SK650 and a 6-way blade on float mode. It works really well and it's faster than the snowblower my neighbors use. :thumbsup:

Only thing, it doesn't like icy conditions. The local distributor recommend putting metal-stud on your tracks. It can run a 60" FFM snowblower or a 7ft snow-blade. They also sell a winter cab if you need it.


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

MyOtherBrotherL said:


> A major storm comes up and you're the only guy in the neighborhood with an SK-650 and a 6 way blade..........


A co-worker told me he saw someone here in Waterloo clearing snow with a blower attachment on a 650 yesterday. I knew DW sold the blowers but have never seen one. I hear they're expensive, too.

And a couple more "You know you're a trail builder..." lines:

You own at least one well worn Dakine Builder's pack with mods and added accessories hooks.

You started your own trail building business b/c you were designing and building trail almost full time, anyway, so why not get paid to? (This one was probably already mentioned; I didn't read through all the previous posts yet.)

D


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## AlloyNipples (Jan 12, 2004)

When brousing photobucket features and suddenly a "motivational" poster comes to mind.


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## DHmonkey123 (Feb 24, 2010)

you own one of these electric chainsaws


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

DHmonkey123 said:


> you own one of these electric chainsaws


... and 34 miles of power cord.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

dburatti said:


> A co-worker told me he saw someone here in Waterloo clearing snow with a blower attachment on a 650 yesterday. I knew DW sold the blowers but have never seen one. I hear they're expensive, too.


The best snowblower for the 650 is made by FFM. The 60" version retail for 5000$ CDN. It come stock with the cable-oriented chute but you can modify it to run a secondary hydrolic line. Cub cab (lawnmower tractors) also make one, but it's crappy.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

You know you're a builder when:

The only person that had an IMBA membership before you is Chuck Noris

You know IMBA Trails Solutions & Managing Mountain Biking books by hearth. And you translated them in another language. 

You spend more time shopping for tools, chainsaw, excavators than for your next bike.

You used to have a Toyota Matrix that was used as a pickup. Now that you have a truck, you consider something even bigger to bring all the tools your trail crew need when working on trails.

Your club own a trailer for trailday and it's stored at your place because you're the only one really using it.

Before having a trailer, the tools were inside your appartment and you used your Matrix to bring them everywhere... 

You own a clinometer and know how to use it.

When you go on a ride, you take more pictures of the features on the trail than of the other riders. 

You are simply unable to ride a trail without spotting every single little defect in it.

You can file "bike trip to Whistler" as Training on your tax return!!!


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

HypNoTic said:


> Y
> 
> You know IMBA Trails Solutions & Managing Mountain Biking books by hearth. And you translated them in another language.


Or you helped IMBA write one of the books. :thumbsup:

D


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## henry9419 (Nov 18, 2010)

TunicaTrails said:


> You are looking for work boots with SPD clips


i couldnt finjd a pair, but i made my own


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## TheAllCreator (Jan 11, 2011)

... You look after your shovel better than your bike.

something I am guilty of...


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

You are willing to get in a pissing contest with a bear over "territory".


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## th29 (Nov 4, 2004)

You clean out your garage/storage room, and end up collecting a 5-gallon bucket full of partially used rolls of flagging tape.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

th29 said:


> You clean out your garage/storage room, and end up collecting a 5-gallon bucket full of partially used rolls of flagging tape.


Um... I need some flagging tape *and* a 5 gallon bucket. Just leave them behind the big rock just past the cedar that got hit by lightning.


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## AlloyNipples (Jan 12, 2004)

Trail Ninja said:


> You are willing to get in a pissing contest with a bear over "territory".


I LoL'd, thanks. We have Turkeys that give us the stink eye.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

This happened today. I went out for a ride and ran into some folks out on the trail. They refused to believe I was just out for a ride.

"What ya building? Is it something around here? Oh, you're just out riding? Yeah, right. I get it. Let me know when it's finished."


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## TheAllCreator (Jan 11, 2011)

Trail Ninja said:


> This happened today. I went out for a ride and ran into some folks out on the trail. They refused to believe I was just out for a ride.
> 
> "What ya building? Is it something around here? Oh, you're just out riding? Yeah, right. I get it. Let me know when it's finished."


Bwahahah! that is a classic case of being a notorious trail builder!


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## DaveVt (Jun 13, 2005)

jasevr4 said:


> Only need one.
> 
> 1) You aren't riding, you're building trails.


word.


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## TrailYoda (Feb 23, 2009)

You come home to find the tradesmen who are supposed to be working on remodeling your kitchen standing in your garage admiring the extensive tools for trailbuilding and how they all organized. Every time a new subcontractor showed for the remodel, one of the other guys takes him on the "garage tour".


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

Irrelevant, spam removed.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

You get into a discussion with the USFS District Supervisor over flagging ribbon, covering points like long term fade resistance, durability to the elements, clean tearing vs stretching; the best way to fasten, knot vs hitch, for removal or moving to another spot as you refine the rough flagged route.


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## Oppy (Nov 9, 2006)

When you read all the posts in this thread!


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## wookie freeride (Apr 10, 2007)

*This one makes me sad...*

But more often than not, it is the way it is.

When you get out to the trails to build, look around to see its just you, the trail , and your shovel, and you don't mind one bit.

Thats how we know...


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

wookie freeride said:


> But more often than not, it is the way it is.
> 
> When you get out to the trails to build, look around to see its just you, the trail , and your shovel, and you don't mind one bit.
> 
> Thats how we know...


I wouldn't have it any other way. That's one of the big reasons why I do it. It's also why I start a trail in the middle. Nobody is there until I'm done and gone.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

OK got another one.

In my recent divorce, my wife got the house, the car, the kids and the bank account. No sweat.
I got to keep my bike, my van and my trail tools. I won!

The kids know where to find me and they both ride.


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## ZigaK (Sep 9, 2009)

So it wasn't a messy divorce


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## Kool (May 20, 2009)

Promote the success of all trail builders.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

ZigaK said:


> So it wasn't a messy divorce


Nope! I'm happy with the way it went. My girlfriend is thrilled.
:thumbsup:


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

When you can look at a topo map or aerial photo of mountainous terrain and immediately spot the railroad line in amongst the web of roads by the way is contours across the terrain.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

V.P. said:


> -when you can smell "lines" absolutely no one else can see.


Fixed it for you


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

When your regular ride involves 30 minutes of pedaling and 30 minutes of scoping re-routes, new trails, and clearing deadfall & drains. And you're still grinning eye to eye when the bike is back on the rack.

When you know the cars in the lot and notice that when a particular car is there trails get dumbed down and your ride becomes a flat out sprint to catch the culprit and have a chat to them.

When you have trail vandals (serious ones that toss trail signs and move choke stones into the nearby river) and consider camping in a gihillie suit to catch them.


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

thefriar said:


> When you have trail vandals (serious ones that toss trail signs and move choke stones into the nearby river) and consider camping in a gihillie suit to catch them.


Or try to convince the club or land manager or anyone that you need a motion tripped IR camera to catch the twits.


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

slocaus said:


> Or try to convince the club or land manager or anyone that you need a motion tripped IR camera to catch the twits.


5MP Bushnell recently acquired by one of the organizations members... I'm of mixed minds on it, want to catch the perp and figure out why they're doing what they're doing, but don't want to get us into any hot water with legal stuff.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

When you wish you could find the person putting continuous lines of rocks along the downhill edge of the trails and explain to them all of their hard work is just making things worse.


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## thetreadway (Jun 29, 2007)

Yup


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

thefriar said:


> 5MP Bushnell recently acquired by one of the organizations members... I'm of mixed minds on it, want to catch the perp and figure out why they're doing what they're doing, but don't want to get us into any hot water with legal stuff.


Are you trying to catch the perp working against the land/trails/public safety or are you The Man trying to catch trail builders?

Where I am, the use of monitoring equipment would not put Rangers out of work (in case you had not thought of that), because there are bugger all of them covering vast areas of marginal to wonderful environments. But it may be a viable idea to balance the lack of staff with surveillance outcomes that look like the environment is being protected...

If I am not being clear, monitoring is more likely to end constructive trail management than prevent bad trail manufacture starting here. What about where you live?

Is this good? Perhaps mixed feelings is pretty right whatever way you look at it.

Sign 8.5 - wanting to do it right....:cornut:


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## slocaus (Jul 21, 2005)

You must be new here.......

1 - thefriar has been posting about his legal builds, read his replies
2 - this thread is about the goofy things we do or want to do that make us nutcase obsessed trail builders. :crazy:

What is your obsession (to keep the thread on topic)?


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Ridnparadise said:


> Are you trying to catch the perp working against the land/trails/public safety or are you The Man trying to catch trail builders?
> ...
> If I am not being clear, monitoring is more likely to end constructive trail management than prevent bad trail manufacture starting here. What about where you live?
> 
> ...


We have someone vandalising our signage and then placing it in places that are clearly intended as a message to those that are working, legitimately, with the land owner. We have minimal/no rogue building, so this is someone unhappy with official projects and changes in park mgmt by the land owner. They also undo our work, most recently tore apart 7 man hours of rock armoring making it an unwalkable/unrideable mess and tore down an entrance map/park info kiosk...

My mixed feelings about using a cam to ID are, once the organization I work with knows who it is:
- will we be in murky legal ground providing the evidence to the authorities or do we try to politely confront them? 
-Do we really want to be in the business of assisting law enforcement when the Land Owner should be taking more proactive steps to protect their assets, should the LO rely on us to police and enforce/investigate criminal activity the park as well as maintain it? 
- if we do it this once and confront the person, what's to stop them from coming back at us or our property (i.e. we're in working and they know our vehicles); or pursuing legal action against us because we may have illictly monitored them.

I do feel they do what they do because it's passive aggressive and their identity is unknown, I do think confronting them will scare them straight since they will lack anonymity... but hesitate b/c they're off tangent enough to do what they've been doing so who knows what they'll do when confronted.

Too many variables to make this black or white in terms of how the organization reacts.

But as someone dedicated to TM you can't just ignore attacks on your LEGITIMATE efforts... it keeps you awake at night...


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Face to face is the best way, should the situation come up. However, that is never likely, but by being able to prove some ****** made a public trail a dangerous place, then the landowner is going to be onside with you. Litigation for damage sustained on the property is sadly the largest legal issue there is right now, so hopefully your landowner is cashed up more than you are and more than the perp.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Forgot; I meant to post you know you are a builder when you always have sheets of cardboard or alternate in the car, so you have something to sit on when your drive home from work ends up in the bush (again).


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## gomer hardtale (Jul 2, 2008)

when some a-hole steals your macleod, and you're more pissed off than when they stole your jumper cables.


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## coachkecz (May 7, 2004)

When your wife asks if you can schedule some TM for your own yard.


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