# Stealth camping on the trail.



## tomikazi (Jun 12, 2013)

Howdy folks, just curious on peoples thoughts about backcountry camping in unauthorized areas, ummm, should one get too tired and unable to continue, or caufht by darkness. Or maybe there is no authorized camping on your route. People in my city live in camps in many of the creeks leaving trash everywhere, which is also illegal. Only difference is I leave no trace. Anyone else risk it occasionally when there is no sensible option?


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2016)

Not "illegal" per se, but stealthy sometimes. I generally carry an MRE, space blanket and pocket hammock when I hunt or ride a long way from trail heads. A simple tube of painters drop cloth can go a long way in the woods when it's wet or damp. I suppose that's the best part of going to Air Force survival training in the winter. Once you know how to keep from freezing to death, you can worry about all the other things that can kill you in the woods. Having just watched The Revenant, it appears I need a bigger knife for my awesome strap and perhaps a big ass needle and thread in my kit.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

If you are truly too tired, unable to continue, caught by darkness, then I'd say go for it. It sounds like you follow LNT principles and are wise enough to be respectful of others land/privacy. If confronted be cool, explain the situation, apologize, etc... 

For me it is really about taking care of MTBers reputation in a given community. I do as little as possible to jeopardize that.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Long distance travelers have stealth-camped in technically unauthorized places for a VERY long time.

Part of it is learning the laws and regulations along your potential route. You might be pleasantly surprised and find a place that's totally legal to camp.

For example, I know where I can camp completely legally inside city limits, and also technically within a park boundary with specific closed hours at night.

In much of the country, you can camp along rivers below the "normal high water mark". Obviously, if the river is flooded, you don't have much choice in the matter. But during summertime low water levels, there's a lot of exposed sandbar alongside or in the middle of rivers where it's completely legal to camp. This typically depends on your given state's definition of a "navigable" river and the property rights laws in that state. This doesn't apply to every state. But I live in a state where canoe navigation on local waterways is a historic thing. In my state, the definition of a navigable waterway for the purposes of camping along it includes paddlecraft. Some states do not include paddlecraft.

Either way, considering this type of law opens up a fair bit of land that's actually completely legal.

You can also go a long way by simply asking rural landowners for permission. You don't have to be quite so stealthy in that case.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

I have done it. Be very discreet (set up late, leave early, camp away from trails and residences, be quiet, and leave no trace) and it is quite likely no one will ever know.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I largely ignore land use laws/regulations when I bikepack with one rule - don't be an a$$hole. If my intended use will cause no harm to the landowner or their interests I just go for it. 

I've been caught in the act a few times, but never been given any real hassles. Mostly people are interested in what the heck I am doing in the middle of nowhere on a bicycle.

I'm not out to be a bad a$$, but land use laws/regulations were not laid down with UL bicycle travel in mind and often don't make sense in that context.

I'm as respectful as I can be on someone else's property. If I felt I could do real damage in some way I would stay out.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

I caught some people camping on my land. I was going to be cool about it and let them be, but when they did not want to answer any basic questions, I gave them the boot. I was going to let them stay, but there attitudes and lack of respect made me kick them out. So if you are going to ignore private property rights, don't be a dick.


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## Jake January (Sep 12, 2014)

Arrived on the ferry late at night in Chaiten Chile, the only place which seemed safe was camping right in the center town plaza. The policia spotted me and said nothing. I was up early and away no problemo


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## Guest (Jan 20, 2016)

Jake January said:


> Arrived on the ferry late at night in Chaiten Chile, the only place which seemed safe was camping right in the center town plaza. The policia spotted me and said nothing. I was up early and away no problemo


 The concept of get out of dodge before you're someone's problem can't be hammered on enough. We were camping along the Pouder River (reserved camping spot) and some guy decides to park his Subaru behind our truck and put his tent/cot up on the trail between our campsite and the outhouse. Scared the crap out of my wife which alarmed the campers at the next site. The 20-something guy in that group flipped the tent cot upside-down with the stealth camper still warm in bed. Moral, leave before you're asked.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

tim208 said:


> if you are going to ignore private property rights, don't be a dick.


That's one of those statements that just rolls around in my head.

Having grown up in a rural agricultural area, and now living in Texas, it boggles my mind how mad people can get about someone being on a spot of "their land" they have likely never been to. I get that you don't want squatters moving in, or someone causing damage you will be responsible for, but freaking out over someone with a bike and a tent just seems like a dick move.

I take my chances, haven't been shot yet.


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

as a land owner it boggles my mind that someone thinks they have a right to be on my property without permission. And when approached they take the same attitude as you, ridiculous.


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

and to clarify for the rest of the posters, if you are polite and honest I never have a problem. but when someone thinks they have a right to my land, as if it is public, it chaps my hide. You would be shocked at the attitudes people give when you approach them. amazing what a smiile and looking someone in the face can do.
I've shared coffee or a beer with people who didn't have permission to be on my property, they were given permission to come and go as they please with no need to check in.
Someone like the poster above who puts quotations around "their land", seriously?!? people are very self entitled


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

fleboz said:


> as a land owner it boggles my mind that someone thinks they have a right to be on my property without permission. And when approached they take the same attitude as you, ridiculous.


+1

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

I think in Norway by law you have to allow campers to use "your land"


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

fleboz said:


> as a land owner it boggles my mind that someone thinks they have a right to be on my property without permission. And when approached they take the same attitude as you, ridiculous.


I like how you assume I'm some rude ahole. I'm actually a pretty nice guy and would never start a fight.

The point I was trying to make is that there are people who own hundreds, or even thousands of acres that would run you off at gun point if they found you stealth camping and that chaps my hide. Actually if you think about it, sans cultural bias, you may realize how COMPLETELY CRAZY the concept of mass land "ownership" is. But 'merica I guess.

My stance is, if you aren't making use of it then there is little sense caring if I do. And we can talk about it if we run into each other.


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## lentamentalisk (Jul 21, 2015)

And this little squabble just goes to show how important it is to be warm, welcoming, and get the hell out if they ask you to. At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter what is morally right or wrong, or who owns what land. What matters is that if you piss someone off, you are doing a disservice to the sport, and are increasing your risk of getting shot. Just don't do it. Be kind and rewind


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

Lots of sides to this. Most land owners likely just want to know what the deal is when they find someone in a tent on their property. And, most likely, the ones who are ***** are likely that way because the people that they have encountered in the past have been ***** in return.

Be nice, upfront an open and you'll certainly get much nicer results. Still might get kicked out, but they'll at least say "Boy that cyclist that we kicked out sure was a nice person."


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

lentamentalisk said:


> and are increasing your risk of getting


I'm glad I live in Canada where getting shot for putting up a tent in the wrong spot isn't in the realm of possibility.

Being told to leave by a Park Ranger or police officer...maybe a ticket is your worst case scenario.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

vikb said:


> I'm glad I live in Canada where getting shot for putting up a tent in the wrong spot isn't in the realm of possibility.
> 
> Being told to leave by a Park Ranger or police officer...maybe a ticket is your worst case scenario.


That's exactly what I was going to say Vik


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## Saddle Up (Jan 30, 2008)

big_papa_nuts said:


> That's one of those statements that just rolls around in my head.
> 
> Having grown up in a rural agricultural area, and now living in Texas, it boggles my mind how mad people can get about someone being on a spot of "their land" they have likely never been to. I get that you don't want squatters moving in, or someone causing damage you will be responsible for, but freaking out over someone with a bike and a tent just seems like a dick move.
> 
> I take my chances, haven't been shot yet.


Yep.



fleboz said:


> as a land owner it boggles my mind that someone thinks they have a right to be on my property without permission. And when approached they take the same attitude as you, ridiculous.


Boy land owners get all uppity about rights and what's theirs. How dare someone be on my land.



big_papa_nuts said:


> I like how you assume I'm some rude ahole. I'm actually a pretty nice guy and would never start a fight.
> 
> The point I was trying to make is that there are people who own hundreds, or even thousands of acres that would run you off at gun point if they found you stealth camping and that chaps my hide. Actually if you think about it, sans cultural bias, you may realize how COMPLETELY CRAZY the concept of mass land "ownership" is. But 'merica I guess.
> 
> My stance is, if you aren't making use of it then there is little sense caring if I do. And we can talk about it if we run into each other.


Yep again. It is a cultural thing. Other countries are more welcoming to strangers.



vikb said:


> I'm glad I live in Canada where getting shot for putting up a tent in the wrong spot isn't in the realm of possibility.
> 
> Being told to leave by a Park Ranger or police officer...maybe a ticket is your worst case scenario.


Amen.


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

I allow access on part of my land, other parts I do not. I’m not understanding the issue with this or why this is viewed as uppity. It was a long-term goal for me to own what I do and I achieved it with no one’s help and a lot of sacrifice. I spend a lot of time on the upkeep of my trail, because like many of the people that use it I love the flipp’n thing. I allow access to great cross-country skiing and a single track that is my all-time favorite trail. Yet because for personal reasons I want to keep an area of my land 100% private, I’m viewed as having a cultural bias.
Where do you personally draw the line on private ownership? Do you allow strangers to crash in your house, apartment, yard or driveway? To you leave your bike unlocked, allowing a stranger to take it when it isn’t being used as long as they return it and do not cause any damage?
Or is it just how you feel about property? And if it is, when is acceptable for the public to have access to private property? 1/10 of an acre, ½ acre, 10, 100, 1000? 
And while Freedom to Roam has been cited a few times in this thread, I think it is lost that that many countries that honor this code/law do so only for people walking. It does not apply to bikes, horseback or any vehicles. They are also very strict on what can and cannot be done, time limit, hunting vs foraging, etc.


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## matt420c (Oct 22, 2015)

I personally fully respect private land ownership, and would not camp anywhere I knew was privately owned, tired or not. Especially if it had NO Trespassing signs and such near the road.....If somehow I wandered onto private land, setup camp, and was confronted, I would be apologetic, polite, and ready to move it the owner did not give his blessing, it is THEIR property after all, which means I am a guest, I would act accordingly, whether or not I was given respect or not.

Living in texas and knowing people with ranches that can span hundereds of acres, I understand where they are coming from. Drug mules/smugglers can setup camp on their land and cause problems and be dangerous. Many people are messy and rude and ruin it for all future passer by's. Just bc someone is friendly to your face doesn't mean they don't have 10 Kilos in their tent.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

This whole argument is the reason I mentioned knocking on the landowner's door and asking FIRST. Seems the politest option to me.


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## Matterhorn (Feb 15, 2015)

To clarify I did say I'd stealth camp on private land but their are some rules. 

Never in in TX. 
I wouldn't camp on land clearly posted NO Trespassing (prosecutors will be violated)
I won't mess around on military land. Met and drone and a german shepard once. Went well. 


Sort of a non-issue for me locally as I'm surrounded by BLM land. And just like Outback Steak House the BLM takes a "NO RULES" spring break inspired approach so I camp where it pleases me. LNT!


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Yowzer, might bit testy here. Respect the land and don't leave a mess is a good start. I would always respect no trespassing/posted signs. I have mostly toured in New England. I usually try to get a campground set up for at least the first night and wing it after that. One place was a state park that I also mt bike in. Arrive late, set up off trails, start there. If you are truly stealth, no one should know you are there. Last year I set up on the CT/RI border 2 miles down this dirt rd, at a public swim/fish area. Tuesday night, people leaving, I eat a sub and set up the hammock 100 ft into the woods, under some large white pines. All good. Until 1 am. Giant *******, raised pickups, driving on the beach, speed metal blasting. Doing donuts in the dirt, breaking bottles. Great, I'm going to die. Now lighting 4-6" mortar fireworks going 100-150' into the air. The hammock tarp is the same shade green as the pine trees, I don't know how they didn't see me when doing donuts, truck lights lighting up everything. Great, meth heads or crack heads. All I have is a parring knife. After 1/2 hour, they leave, fireworks done and all the bottles broken. Moral of the story, be stealthy and blend in. And the green tarp is coming with me again this year.


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## seedub (Nov 16, 2005)

leeboh said:


> Yowzer, might bit testy here. Respect the land and don't leave a mess is a good start. I would always respect no trespassing/posted signs. I have mostly toured in New England. I usually try to get a campground set up for at least the first night and wing it after that. One place was a state park that I also mt bike in. Arrive late, set up off trails, start there. If you are truly stealth, no one should know you are there. Last year I set up on the CT/RI border 2 miles down this dirt rd, at a public swim/fish area. Tuesday night, people leaving, I eat a sub and set up the hammock 100 ft into the woods, under some large white pines. All good. Until 1 am. Giant *******, raised pickups, driving on the beach, speed metal blasting. Doing donuts in the dirt, breaking bottles. Great, I'm going to die. Now lighting 4-6" mortar fireworks going 100-150' into the air. The hammock tarp is the same shade green as the pine trees, I don't know how they didn't see me when doing donuts, truck lights lighting up everything. Great, meth heads or crack heads. All I have is a parring knife. After 1/2 hour, they leave, fireworks done and all the bottles broken. Moral of the story, be stealthy and blend in. And the green tarp is coming with me again this year.


Indeed. Same experiences. Same advice: Arrive late, no fire, leave early. Nobody knows. And yeah, respect No Trespassing signs. It truly is a show of respect. If you're feeling especially responsible, ask in the local town on your way to said destination. I remember "Gypsy By Trade" blog regarding advice from locals. "here you are OK, but that next town/county/district/country? They'll kill/rob etc." When you get the next town/district/county/country they'll say you were lucky to make it through back there without being killed/robbed etc.


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## jmmUT (Sep 15, 2008)

There are a number of insightful guides and discussions about how/why/why not stealth camp on Crazy Guy https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/?doc_id=1385


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## Jake January (Sep 12, 2014)

^ some great tips there.

What I really like about stealth camping is there is a certain Zen to it, a heightening of the senses and awareness of what is around you.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

fleboz said:


> I allow access on part of my land, other parts I do not. I'm not understanding the issue with this or why this is viewed as uppity. It was a long-term goal for me to own what I do and I achieved it with no one's help and a lot of sacrifice. I spend a lot of time on the upkeep of my trail, because like many of the people that use it I love the flipp'n thing. I allow access to great cross-country skiing and a single track that is my all-time favorite trail. Yet because for personal reasons I want to keep an area of my land 100% private, I'm viewed as having a cultural bias.
> Where do you personally draw the line on private ownership? Do you allow strangers to crash in your house, apartment, yard or driveway? To you leave your bike unlocked, allowing a stranger to take it when it isn't being used as long as they return it and do not cause any damage?
> Or is it just how you feel about property? And if it is, when is acceptable for the public to have access to private property? 1/10 of an acre, ½ acre, 10, 100, 1000?
> And while Freedom to Roam has been cited a few times in this thread, I think it is lost that that many countries that honor this code/law do so only for people walking. It does not apply to bikes, horseback or any vehicles. They are also very strict on what can and cannot be done, time limit, hunting vs foraging, etc.


If you were to get a phone call from a stranger and they told you they had camped on your property last night would you peruse legal action? Would you damn them for violating your rights? You you attempt to harm them?

I have relatives that are farmers, I get that there a practical reasons to have a lot of land but if you don't see every part of your land on a regular basis (in this case it could be argued daily) then there is little reason to get worked up about it.

Again, I get they you don't want to deal with hobo camps and stuff, but if your not enjoying it why not let someone else? If I had a car sitting in the woods someplace I doubt I would care, or know, if someone took it for a joy ride. As long as they didn't funk it up.

Bike and car share programs are actually gaining traction in a lot of major US cities. There are even programs to offer your spare room like a motel, and rent your driveway to RVers.

Obviously I'm not gonna pitch a tent in your backyard but I'm not afraid to make use of something your not.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

The thing about asking beforehand to camp on private property, they might invite you in to stay with them! Sometimes I just want to camp by myself.


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## Jake January (Sep 12, 2014)

Mark_BC said:


> The thing about asking beforehand to camp on private property, they might invite you in to stay with them! Sometimes I just want to camp by myself.


Sometimes the hospitality can be quite wonderful; while traveling on the Carretera Austral in Chile, time to camp and all the land was fenced off tight as can be. I spotted an older couple tending a vegetable garden and asked if I could camp for the night somewhere. They said yes and showed me a lovely spot in and adjacent field. It happened to be New Years eve, later I was invited to share in the family new year celebration. Lots of wine flowed and fantastic roast sheep! It was a great time, one the best new years ever.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I agree.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

maybe it is my land that I paid for. Actually worked my ass off for. I was going to be nice and let them stay, but when I was asking the girl some basic questions and she couldn't answer them, I knew something was up. When I heard the action of the pistol being worked I knew I could not allow them to camp there. Yes, I did hear the slide of a semi auto pistol being worked by the male in the tent. Sorry but that behavior is not very polite. The reason I found them was, I was checking game cams and they had ****ed with my cams. no big deal there, but it showed the level of person, than the pistol slide, enough get the **** out.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

I can be very hospitable ask gp nuts, the guy living out of a sprinter van. He has slept in my driveway and used the shower etc


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## fleboz (Apr 22, 2015)

big-pappa---i have no phone or cell service, not sure why someone would call me after the fact but it isnt an option. I have run into or been approached by people during and after the fact face to face, it goes along the lines of other posters here. If they are polite and nice, i give advise about where they are, trails to hit, what they can do. If they are rude and assume they have some right to be on my property, I ask them to leave. I think you would really be amazed at how rude some people can be, I'm taken back by it every time. It typically makes me laugh, which makes the person even more mad than they already are. Standing on my driveway (dirt but still my driveway), with a no trespassing sign. They still feel the need to tell me they can do as they please.

Do I ever try to harm them? I'm too old for that ****.  

Jake-i was stationed in Italy, I loved the people and couldn't believe how nice they were when a stranger approached to ask simple questions. Being an American, even more of a reason for me to be overly polite and thankful. Many a grandma made me tortellini that i still crave today and the wine always flowed.


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## tomikazi (Jun 12, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses. I see private property is a very sensitive issue, understandably so. I avoid private property unless it was absolutely an emergency, which hasn't happened yet. Publicly owned/managed land is where I've done it. I follow the setup late get out early stategy, no fires and very little light used. Usually I'm deep enough in I have had plenty of time between the last evening rider and the first morning one.

If I were ever to get caught by anyone be it ranger, cops, Nice/Angry property owner, my response would be the same. Something like, "oh Im sorry, my bad, Ill get out right now, i didnt realize, it was an emergency, I wont do it again, thank you so much for understanding". 
Whether I felt like I was right or wrong, not gonna ruin my adventure making a stand when no matter what my position I will come off like a dick to them. 

As a property owner, the campers attitude when I come say "howdy" determines whether or not they get a "come back anytime" response.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

The other issue is reflective patches on your gear. I had the Schwalbe Marathon tires in Colombia with the white stripes down the side, stood out like a beacon when you shine a light. That was a bit of a pain since I was sometimes stealth camping there because in areas everything is fenced off, more for cattle than for people. Also my tent has some reflective tabs, and my panniers. It would be nice to get rid of all of these.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Mark_BC said:


> It would be nice to get rid of all of these.


Just glue a small bit of non-reflective material on all those areas.


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## tomikazi (Jun 12, 2013)

I'm pretty good about reflective strips, shiny metal, etc. My bike, mesh bivy, and all my gear fit under my warbonnet tarp. Definitely a good point to consider. 
I also try to make sure I'm a ways down a single track, and a bit off of that, so any interested party would have to get out of their vehicle and hike it.


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

I spent eight months backpacking coast to coast last year, Los Angeles to Myrtle Beach, SC. I think I spent about three nights camping legally. It was 99% stealth. Never had any problems. I avoided camping on any residential property and was very strict about leave no trace. 

I had one instance where I just physically could not keep moving along in Texas. I just laid my sleeping pad down maybe 50 yards from the driveway entrance to an enormous ranch. Fell asleep in seconds. A couple hours later, I heard the gravel crunching and an older gentleman got out and started walking toward me. I jumped up right away and began to apologize while rolling up my pad. The guy holds out a bag full of breakfast for me. Breakfast sandwich, home fries, donut, and a quart of milk. 

I had a couple of other similar experiences along the way as well. People are generally awesome to travellers as long as you're not being a dick.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

MrkT said:


> People are generally awesome to travellers as long as you're not being a dick.


+1 - definitely


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

MrkT said:


> I spent eight months backpacking coast to coast last year, Los Angeles to Myrtle Beach, SC. I think I spent about three nights camping legally. It was 99% stealth. Never had any problems. I avoided camping on any residential property and was very strict about leave no trace.
> 
> I had one instance where I just physically could not keep moving along in Texas. I just laid my sleeping pad down maybe 50 yards from the driveway entrance to an enormous ranch. Fell asleep in seconds. A couple hours later, I heard the gravel crunching and an older gentleman got out and started walking toward me. I jumped up right away and began to apologize while rolling up my pad. The guy holds out a bag full of breakfast for me. Breakfast sandwich, home fries, donut, and a quart of milk.
> 
> I had a couple of other similar experiences along the way as well. People are generally awesome to travellers as long as you're not being a dick.


Welcome to bikepacking, your first post. Now do it on a bike.


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

Mark_BC said:


> Welcome to bikepacking, your first post. Now do it on a bike.


That's the Plan!


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