# How do you justify a $5,000 bike?



## truongasaurus (May 10, 2013)

EDIT:
Not sure why this thread is continuing... especially with the "grow a pair" comments...

Anyway, I'm just gonna leave this here...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Why justify it, just do it. 

Whatever sport I've ever been in I've always opted for the best Product I could afford. Which is usually more than I can afford, but I do it anyway.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Ridiculous! I'd never spend so little on a bike.


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

buy the bike, enjoy it! it's just money you'll have way more fun riding the bike than watching 5k make no interest in the bank!
or

spend 2500 on a bike and the rest on bike trips :thumbsup:


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

That bike is actually a bargain.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

I struggle to understand how most people justify spending more than $25k on an automobile - especially since so few of those more expensive automobiles ever get taken to its limit on performance - ever. 

Full carbon frame, a who's who selection of top shelf parts, and knowing that you won't need to make changes out of the box for that bike to rock - let's just say it's really common for people to pay a LOT more to get a lot less bike.


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## jjaguar (Oct 6, 2011)

It's still cheaper than a heart bypass.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

ok so I dropped 6 nine months ago on a Pivot 429c pro build xt xtr rear 2x10

1 I tested many bike and this one spoke to me

2 save a dropper post there was nothing to upgrade.

3 After 2000 miles the cost is about 3 bucks a mile which is cheaper than gas

4 I will ride more with the new bike ( I have)

5 It will improve my game ( oh man going from a hard tail to this wow huge upgrade in game)

6 Having good fitness is good for my body

7 Wanted to get nice bike while I could still ride it like I bought it (51)

8 got the 12 month interest free freedom to ride spread the pain over a year

9 riding faster without taking chances

10 few things make me happier than riding my bike


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## TheGweed (Jan 30, 2010)

If you have the disposable income you don't really need to justify it, do you?


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

Because I can. 

It does seems shocking, especially to people outside of the sport. But if you think about how much people rack up on cigarettes, alcohol, clothes, eating out, whatever... $5000 or more for a bike doesn't seem so bad!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

thegweed said:


> If you kept the bike for 5 years that works out to about 83 bucks a month for a super fun hobby, outdoors on a great bike which you'll still have in the end.
> 
> Don't know how much a gym membership is but even if it's half that price, at the end of five years you have about the same level of fitness from being indoors and no bike left over.


With that logic my 5K bike has cost me $32 a month to own.
:rockon:


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## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

The simple answer is that you don't justify the $5000 bike. 

You're toying with the most basic element of both fiscal and social economics. What's that bike worth? It's worth exactly what you'll pay for it. If it makes you happy and you didn't have to sacrifice a NEED (tuition, car payment, food, diapers, etc.) to get it, it was "worth" $5k.

For me, and I'm sure it's that way for many people, having a bike I LOVE, versus one that just works, makes me want to ride more often and ride faster and ride farther. That's worth any incremental cost between a bike that's adequate and one that I love.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

I don't justify it. I work hard and I only have one real hobby, so I feel great about spending money on something that gives so much back to me personally.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I'm 56, retired with an ok pension but my wife and live a good simple life. I just bought a Knolly Warden and it was expensive. Justify spending over $6000 on a bike, who cares. Gonna be on my death bed someday and glad I had so much fun. Could have saved that money or spent it on some useless ******** that I wouldn't enjoy 5% as much. If you're not going to suffer financially, why not? What is money for? Do you love, and I mean really love riding? If you said yes, there's your answer.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Life is too short to ride shitty bikes.


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## Bent Wheel (Oct 6, 2007)

Cyclelicious said it best.


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## Ladmo (Jan 11, 2013)

If you are in a position where a $3k difference between a cheaper bike and the bike you really want is going to make or break you financially, it is time to seriously focus on career growth and money management, in which case, you live within your means and don't buy the bike.

Otherwise, if you want it, buy it. 

Riding a really nice bike is really nice. I advise it, so long as you have the means.


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## BikeIntelligencer (Jun 5, 2009)

When it comes to The Following the question isn't how much you spend. Its when you'll get the actual bike!


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## drwx (Jun 4, 2011)

Gallo said:


> ok so I dropped 6 nine months ago on a Pivot 429c pro build xt xtr rear 2x10
> 
> 1 I tested many bike and this one spoke to me
> 
> ...


3 bucks a mile cheaper than gas? What sort of crappy mpg do you get? I can get a gallon of gas for less than $3 and get 20 miles on it.

--
Stephen


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

truongasaurus said:


> I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the Evil Following as I'm getting away from the racing scene and want to just get back to the roots of riding for fun and help me progress as a rider.
> 
> I have the means to buy the bike but I'm just wrestling with spending that type of money. Especially since bikes depreciate so fast like cars.
> I've always been a cheapskate and my current carbon hardtail was only $2,000...
> ...


Don't torture yourself over it. If you love the Following and can afford it don't need to justify it to anyone. Enjoy an awesome ride!

When I get the miney I'll be buying ine, too.


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## 274898 (Nov 29, 2005)

I justify it on the basis of cost per month. Better bikes and components hold their value better and are much better quality as well as function much better. Also if you keep it in good shape, you can sell it because they retain their value pretty well if you get sought after bikes. Lower end bikes depreciate at a similar rate and are not worth much after a few years. To me, it is almost a wash if you want a new bike every couple of years like me. I'd rather have a new bike every couple years than a new car every couple years. That shows you where my priorities are. Right now my bike is worth more than my car. Haha.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

The best way to justify spending $5k on a bike is to spend it on a one year old used and upgraded $8K bike.


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## Wherewolf (Jan 17, 2004)

*Kids*

How do people justify spending a quarter of a million on one child?


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## Mtc (Jun 9, 2004)

My free time is valuable to me, I want to enjoy it.
There is a lot of technology in a $10K bike...wait did you say $5k?


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

Gallo said:


> ok so I dropped 6 nine months ago on a Pivot 429c pro build xt xtr rear 2x10
> 
> 1 I tested many bike and this one spoke to me
> 
> ...


Awesome answers. Have the same bike


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## truongasaurus (May 10, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback everyone. This is a decision I've been mulling over for awhile. I went to Outerbike a couple seasons ago and also had the opportunity to demo the Following so I'd like to say I'm making a pretty informed decision... 
I'm convinced! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Cyclelicious nailed it. Life is way too short to be stuck with mediocre goods. Read all the reviews, do your homework and get the best you can afford....the "complaint department" goes way down in activity. Mom taught me this attribute and to this day, I adhere to it firmly.


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## bigflamingtaco (Oct 26, 2013)

We pay $40/month for a gym membership for four. Gotta love abusing the Planet Fitness +1 program. That's what a gym membership costs.

Fitness 19 was, uh, $19/month (ea). They're looking a bit dated, might be seeing Fitness 23's before long.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

+1 on what Cyclelicious said. That lady really knows her sh*t.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

"Only $2000?" That's already into diminishing returns, especially on a hardtail. I don't see that $5000 would be that different. Just a larger figure. If you want it, you can afford it, and you think you'll ride it a lot and have fun owning it, wtf. Like everyone else says, you only live once.


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

Mine is only $3500 without upgrades, could I have spent more and bought the carbon version, yup, but but didn't see the need for how much I get to ride. 

Will my next bike be $5k, probably. It's only money.


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## David R (Dec 21, 2007)

If I can afford it and it makes me happy then that is all the justification I need.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

I have a $2500 road bike. My buddy has a $5000 road bike. His bike is not twice as nice as mine. So for me the answer is, I wouldn't justify it because I don't feel that a $5000 bike will give me that much more that a bike half as much will give me. But that's just me. If I raced or I was a stronger rider or I rode way more than I do...it might be a different story. But as it is...I struggle to get 2000 miles in a year.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

I have trouble buying a 5k bike outright but I have no issue with buying 5k worth of parts and frame to put together... Go figure.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

drwx said:


> 3 bucks a mile cheaper than gas? What sort of crappy mpg do you get? I can get a gallon of gas for less than $3 and get 20 miles on it.
> 
> --
> Stephen


Glad someone caught that...guess it depends what you drive. (note, plenty of room for bikes)


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm with nubster on this one. The question was "How do YOU justify" . I don't think I could. I have too many other hobbies.. Yes I could afford it but i'd be just as happy on a bike at half that price. It just wouldn't be the right decision for me (at least right now). Op you are the one buying it so if it feels like the right decision for you then go for it and enjoy the crap out of it.


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## muddytire (Aug 27, 2009)

I once knew a very smart and wealthy man. He made his money on a company that he started himself. He half jokingly said one time 'If a man is paying cash he doesn't have to justify a thing."

If you have the money, and the expenditure is not interfering with any of your other goals, then buy it and get to riding.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

If you can afford it, sure. If you're building up debt, you can't. 

You said you can afford it, so why not? Would I do it? Not at the moment. I got other priorities.


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## Miker J (Nov 4, 2003)

Blatant said:


> I don't justify it. I work hard and I only have one real hobby, so I feel great about spending money on something that gives so much back to me personally.


Exactly.

Add to that, it will go a long way in keeping you healthy, and few things can measure up to the importance of good health.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Travis Bickle said:


> I'm 56, retired with an ok pension but my wife and live a good simple life. I just bought a Knolly Warden and it was expensive. Justify spending over $6000 on a bike, who cares. Gonna be on my death bed someday and glad I had so much fun. Could have saved that money or spent it on some useless ******** that I wouldn't enjoy 5% as much. If you're not going to suffer financially, why not? What is money for? Do you love, and I mean really love riding? If you said yes, there's your answer.


 +1^^^:thumbsup:


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Don't smoke, don't have a boat lol, no debt, and I work hard for my $$.

I spend what I want and don't worry about it.

When you factor in a bike like that can last 4 - 5 years at least if not more, it's cheaper than being unhealthy and going to the doctor all the time


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Wherewolf said:


> How do people justify spending a quarter of a million on one child?


No kidding!!


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Buy the bike! If you get buyers remorse the following day, I will give you $3900 for it, "used".


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## Ricko (Jan 14, 2004)

My latest "$5000" bike was obtained by buying a new frame, fork and a few other items and using wheelset , drivetrain and a few other items from my previous bike. This bike would retail for $5000 or more with this spec...but I only spent around $3000 for the newest parts! To recoup some $$, the previous frame/fork went on ebay.

Honestly though...I have no debt, I have a decent income and my only vices are bikes and craft beer...I deserve the good stuff.


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## Gallo (Nov 17, 2013)

drwx said:


> 3 bucks a mile cheaper than gas? What sort of crappy mpg do you get? I can get a gallon of gas for less than $3 and get 20 miles on it.
> 
> --
> Stephen


lol good point ok so I only have nine weak justifications but one awesome bike


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I don't. 

Cyclelicious really did say it best.

If I did try to justify it, I would rather justify a really nice bike than a crap one by saying its all I need. What I buy is what I want. Don't mistake that for it being what I need.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

muddytire said:


> 'If a man is paying cash he doesn't have to justify a thing."


This sums it up quite adequately - my wife (an MD) hasn't really batted an eye about any of my bike purchases either, which is surprising... until I realize that she knows I'd spend that money on something, and it's extremely hard to do better than buying a nice bicycle that will get ridden a lot when it comes to spending money --> better health, lots of enjoyment, and still having durable goods to show for it. Now, if I could just keep the things rubber side down...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Easy question: Because you can ride it a lot longer than $5000 worth of hookers.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

truongasaurus said:


> I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the Evil Following as I'm getting away from the racing scene and want to just get back to the roots of riding for fun and help me progress as a rider.
> 
> I have the means to buy the bike but I'm just wrestling with spending that type of money. Especially since bikes depreciate so fast like cars.
> I've always been a cheapskate and my current carbon hardtail was only $2,000...
> ...


The Following might not make you better but it'll make you faster... Since I got mine I'm knocking 10%+ off my best ever times on trail segments I have a hundred attempts on and at a lower heart rate to boot (so it's not just new bike adrenaline).

Justification = it makes you happy. Why else do you work?


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## rockymtbiker (May 25, 2012)

When I had the money, I just figured you only lived once & what is the money there for IF not to have fun with. These days, I'm forced to go without! Which makes having gotten things when I could even more important.

So, my suggestion is, get it while you can. You can only spend it once, and if you wait, it may be to late to enjoy it. Time flies...trust me. *Get the bike...*


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

tehllama said:


> This sums it up quite adequately - my wife (an MD) hasn't really batted an eye about any of my bike purchases either, which is surprising... until I realize that she knows I'd spend that money on something, and it's extremely hard to do better than buying a nice bicycle that will get ridden a lot when it comes to spending money --> better health, lots of enjoyment, and still having durable goods to show for it. Now, if I could just keep the things rubber side down...


The money is very well spent. Consider that you could be blowing it on something so boring and unhealthy as golf. or you could get into something really expensive and dangerous like MotoX or off-roading. or fishing and drinking, or hunting and drinking, the list goes on and on...MTB is cheap and healthy relatively speaking.


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## Carraig042 (Nov 12, 2009)

I do not justify, I just do what makes me happy. (single life)

-Brett


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## truongasaurus (May 10, 2013)

THE DEED IS DONE. 
Just picked it up tonight. Thanks again for the input everyone.

Out with the old... in with The Following...


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

As far as I'm concerned, it's pretty simple. If you need to find justification for this, then you most likely can't afford paying $5000 for bike, and then, at least in my mind, it's stupid to do it. If you can afford it easily, there's no justification needed.
On the other side, I'm just like you... I could afford it easily, but it just feels stupid to pay $5000 for bike, as I really don't need it. So I'm happy with my "cheap" $3000 bike


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I think of it this way. If I were on my death bed and someone came to me and said for $5k you can live for another 8-10 years... I'd write that cheque out w/o any hesitation... I'm investing in my life!! (as long as I don't seriously crash)

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Sometimes you've just gotta say WTF.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Once you ride a really nice bike, it's so hard to go back to things that just don't work as well or are not as light. Spending more on a bike really does make for a nicer ride.


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## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't own a car, so I've got a little extra cake for some nice bikes... 

Lucky I guess...


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## CHIEF500 (Aug 30, 2012)

Interesting thread. If you have the $ do what you want whenever you want. You had your wife's buy in, I couldn't see the problem.

I surf fish, the rods and reels can be expensive. The reels I use can be dunked in salt water and used for years. Just rinse them off, have them serviced and your good to go. Each reel is between 650 to 1000, I have a few of them. The rods are 400.
If you can afford your toys buy what you want.

I'm presently saving for a fat bike. Time is getting short since I rode it Saturday. Some reels my have to go.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

truongasaurus said:


> THE DEED IS DONE.
> Just picked it up tonight. Thanks again for the input everyone.
> 
> Out with the old... in with The Following...
> ...


Do you wanna sell that Scott carbon frame?


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Best way to justify a $5K bike? Pay $2K for it.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Justifying expenses on non-essentials (well, at least to the outsiders) can be difficult. I guess it depends on how much $$$ one has, what the wife/life partner/parent has to say about it, etc. I'm sure there's some schematic for decision-making out there somewhere that can answer your question better than I.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

You justify it by riding it all the time.


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## Jovian (Jun 18, 2013)

My health/safety is important and this and this is my only type of exercise I do. Not having gym memberships and other fee's makes a $5k bike much more reasonable to purchase when you look at what you spend in a year on fitness. 

I did finance the bike which really helped.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't have to justify it. I want it, I can afford it, I get it.

That's my justification.


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## truongasaurus (May 10, 2013)

Zachariah said:


> Do you wanna sell that Scott carbon frame?


Sorry, I'm keeping that thing until it breaks... has some sentimental value


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## knutso (Oct 8, 2008)

That bike looks F-ing mean, OP. If it gets you giddy, thats a feeling some folks blow $$$$ chasing. If it feels like flying, then it's priceless.

Nice ride!


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

truongasaurus said:


> I'm about ready to pull the trigger on the Evil Following as I'm getting away from the racing scene and want to just get back to the roots of riding for fun and help me progress as a rider.
> 
> I have the means to buy the bike but I'm just wrestling with spending that type of money. Especially since bikes depreciate so fast like cars.
> I've always been a cheapskate and my current carbon hardtail was only $2,000...
> ...


You wont need to. Buy a new frame for under 2K, migrate the parts over and you are good to go. As you upgrade parts on the new bike you can move the old ones over to the hardtail (or sell the frame)

For high end bikes it is better to build it yourself. Get a good price on a frame from someone who has stripped the parts or on a closeout. Merlincycles has XT drivetrains for under $600


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> I don't have to justify it. I want it, I can afford it, I get it.
> 
> That's my justification.


Preach it. "Afford" is relative, too, for that matter. If you mean walk out the door and buy it right now, then no, I can't afford it. If you mean that to save the money to buy it, I'll have to work a little longer, a little harder, and spend less elsewhere, then sure, I can do that.

I did it that way with the Salsa Bucksaw I bought last year. I saved for several months for that bike. I bought it outright. Now I ride the crap out of it. Riding it is justifying it, as has been mentioned.

Right now, I'm doing the same in order to buy a teardrop camper. Saving a little bit of money every paycheck to buy one later in the year.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

cjsb said:


> The money is very well spent. Consider that you could be blowing it on something so boring and unhealthy as golf. or you could get into something really expensive and dangerous like MotoX or off-roading. or fishing and drinking, or hunting and drinking, the list goes on and on...MTB is cheap and healthy relatively speaking.


This. A thousand times, this.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

22 American veterans kill themselves each and every day. Both of my parents have had strokes, despite my dad being a Boston qualifier and my mom walking 5 miles every day.

I don't plan on joining either of those ranks, and riding a bike helps keep me sane and healthy.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> I don't plan on joining either of those ranks, and riding a bike helps keep me sane and healthy.


I'm not planning on it either but as you pointed out $hit sometimes happens. I don't think I really need to justify anything but I guess that's one way I could. I recognize time is finite, do what you love, now.


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## tubby74 (Jun 2, 2012)

best way to justify it - ride the damn thing. create moments that you look back on and get pleasure from reliving what you've done. 
the worst value bike at any price is the one that's never ridden


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## SlimTwisted (Jun 14, 2006)

Try amortizing it over the years you'll be enjoying it. A good bike can easily last a decade of maintained use- that works out to only $500 per year for all that entertainment; even less if you subtract what you'll recoup when you sell it on Craigslist in 2025 when it's time to get something new.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

SlimTwisted said:


> Try amortizing it over the years you'll be enjoying it. that works out to only $500 per year for all that entertainment;


That doesn't even begin to factor in the health benefits. Priceless.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

For an 'A' bike doing its original job, I think ten years is really optimistic.

Think about what was out ten years ago. A lot's changed, and some of it even makes a difference.

I held onto one of my bikes for thirteen years and my current oldest are now pushing ten. I've had my "most senior" for eight. I'm not really into new for the sake of new and I think I approach new with some skepticism. But I do want my 'A' bike to have any new developments that matter. For a while, those are available aftermarket. At a certain point, they go too deep into the design of the bike.

In the last ten years, we've had major shakeups in wheel size, headset standards, and rear suspension.

At the moment, I don't see that there's anything new that I want and can't stick on my '13 bike. And when I bought it, I only told myself it would be my 'A' bike for at least five years. But who knows what the standards will be like in 2023, and if somebody will figure out a new piece of technology that I want


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

I always encourage people to spend as much as they can on their new bike. It makes a difference every time you throw a leg over it.

I went from '97 racing steel hard tail (I rode it for 15 tears) to a dual suspended carbon 27.5 w/ carbon hoops. I have about $5500 into it but that is a lot of bro' deals and I already owned the Chris King hubs. 

I spent as much as I could and dialed in my purchase with a fair amount of skill. I was able to test ride 5 different tikes, 3 of which I had for numerous real rides. I'm 63, ridden mtb for over 30 years, and am pretty clear about what I think works. That makes things simple. That doesn't mean it doesn't take time and thought.


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## mabrodis (Oct 19, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Easy question: Because you can ride it a lot longer than $5000 worth of hookers.


I don't know about this. I haven't seen the Bloomberg hooker valuation report for today, $5k might buy quite a few in this market


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

mabrodis said:


> I don't know about this. I haven't seen the Bloomberg hooker valuation report for today, $5k might buy quite a few in this market


Key word: "longer".


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

*This....*


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

mabrodis said:


> I don't know about this. I haven't seen the Bloomberg hooker valuation report for today, $5k might buy quite a few in this market


You'll have to wait for the Blow Report in the morning. Hooker Valuation tends to have an inverse relationship to Blow Valuation.


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## Michael86 (Jul 15, 2014)

You can try my method... show her how fast you go and say that your current bike doesn't feel safe  If she's anything like my woman she'll be like you gotta get a "sturdier" bike lol 

Also you know what they say... it's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission  

Good luck!


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## Ltdan12a (Jun 15, 2012)

I don't justify it, because I don't do it. I pieced together my current hard tail in '14 for about $1300. Carbon frame, SLX components, and mid level parts. It's light and fast and I have fun on it. 

Even my road bike- $600 on clearance last year. On our group rides, I can't tell if the guys on $6,000 bikes are have any more fun- I know they aren't any faster than me... 

Honestly, it shocks me how much price creep has occurred in the bike industry over the past 10 years.


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## mr_chrome (Jan 17, 2005)

I'm a teacher so spending $5,000 on a bike isn't going to happen......instead, I surf eBay and bargain hunt until I find the frame I want, then strip my current bike and build up the new (or used as the case may be)...........


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## teethandnails (Sep 16, 2013)

I usually buy a comp model and build as I go. Just make sure the fork and frame is what you want. You end up with a heavier bike usually, but you can ride it right away and sell the parts that are coming off. It may not be the most cost effective overall, but paying as you go is a little easier on the wallet. I now have enough spare parts to build a pretty cool trail hard tail.

I bought a Remedy 7 29er back in 2013 and it absolutely slays. I have ridden quite a few other bikes and I really havnt met a bike that I like better yet. While the only stock part on my bike is the cranks and brakes, I really just changed parts that became worn out. The only exception has been the Pike. Doing again I would ensure my bike had the fork I wanted. The fork was a big spend.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Ltdan12a said:


> Honestly, it shocks me how much price creep has occurred in the bike industry over the past 10 years.


There's a good article Seb Kemp wrote for NSMB that went live today, which explains some of that upward market pressure - basically buttloads of baby boomers with disposable income are creating a really big high end, high profit margin market, and that's a significant price driver... but consider what some of the performance improvements really are.

As much as basically every all-mountain bike review in a bike magazine or site reads at some point like a paraphrasing of 'climbs like an XC bike, descends like a single crown DH bike', there is a bit of truth in it. If our mid-range travel bikes are climbing on par with XC rigs from 6-9 years ago, and the sum of parts on them mean they're as capable as the old 6x6 park bikes from the same vintage, there's something to be said for a rider who is actually using all that capability - the current crop of trail bikes really can do basically as much as entire manufacturer lineups from a decade ago.

I think you're right that there is absolutely a level where no diminishing returns are happening, and that's in the $700-$1000 road bike range (you probably got a great clearance deal on something right in the middle of that range), and $1500-1800 in FS MTB. A solid 105 setup on a good frame is in fact all anybody needs out of a road bike, the rest of the marginal gains all the way out to the $10k wunderbikes are all about weight, frame compliance/rigidity (comfort+efficiency) and crisper performance of drivetrain/brakes. The MTB mid-level parts are equally impressive - Deore brakes, SLX drivetrain, and frames designed with the $3500 build kits in mind can do really impressive things, but there is a fair bit more performance for some riders above that price range, mostly with suspension performance and that dual suspension carbon frames are typically trying to strike a much more delicate balance than a simpler hardtail. The difference is that in higher end mountain bikes, often what the rider is buying is a bigger margin where having more bike can bail them out of sketchy situations - there are trails I know I'd be walking if I hadn't affixed a Pike and some fancier aftermarket rubber onto my already expensive bike, so those particular marginal gains do have definite tangible benefits to me... I know I'm having a lot more fun because I'm carrying speed and sending small jumps I wouldn't otherwise be able to.

A lot of the cost increase is companies trying to compete for a market that rabidly pays more for single digit percentages in performance improvement - especially evident on the road bike side where well-specced $2000 bikes are comfortably within 5% of performance of bikes at 5x their price. I think MTB is a lot more stratified because there are a lot of suspension performance gains which are subjectively and objectively better, and that there are simply more top end parts that can all have marginal gains (fork, shock, brakes, wheels, cockpit, tires, drivetrain, dropper posts, and of course frames) so there are more things that can be cost drivers on high end models... the only sad part is that so much of that demand is driven by riders that are using, optimistically, 75% of the equipment's potential.

For me that sweet spot is a lot closer to that $5000 range, primarily because I'm a 235lb rider with a penchant for doing silly things on chunky, chundery, and fast trails. What I'm riding right now as a trail/AM bike I have spent pretty much $3500 on, and for all intents an purposes it's a $5000 bike that hasn't undergone any of the $1500 carbon and CNC machining lightened parts diet that a full on $5k bike would, so it's a portly 32lb beast that looks after me very well downhill, but is a little bit flexy, and takes a bit more effort to drag to the top of hills... which is all the capability I feel I needed crammed into my budget at the time.
Consider that a bike good enough to prevent even one major injury pretty much pays for itself the first time that situation occurs, not to mention the health benefits of not being constantly sidelined by small injuries from little wrecks. At a minimum, I never have to ask my wife twice about upgrading brakes. This isn't really as much of a consideration on road bikes, or for buff trail XC riders, but for all mountain stuff, and especially for riders who lack the willingness, self-discipline, and maturity (uhh, HI !!!) to ride comfortably under the limit, there is another significant price justification for getting a spendier bike.


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## sl1_matt (Apr 12, 2009)

You got permission for a $5k bike? You should throw on some nice carbon hoops while you're at it. $8k bikes are the $5k bikes of just a few years ago.


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## 70sSanO (Nov 20, 2013)

The reality is if the money is truly disposable, it doesn't matter. If it is not, then the justification is getting all the use out of it and then some.

It is kinda funny to read this thread and then the one about buying a basically hardly ridden 2008 Stumpjumper that probably sold for $2500 BITD. I guess the original owner justified that purchase better when he first bought the bike than when he put it up for sale.

As for me, I love riding but at my age and ability I'm not going to be able to fully appreciate a bike that costs that much. I like running XT, XTR and Dura Ace (road) on my bikes, but having a few less gears is fine with me. I'd rather spread my green around and not tie it up in a single hobby.

John


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

My take on this for the married bike freaks...build your own bike from square one. Start selling your stuff on ebay so you have the excuse to your wife that you are just 'trading apples to apples'...not actually spending money! You can build some very very good bikes with good parts at very low price doing this...after some research and patience with shipping...it actually feels like Christmas everyday....getting all the parts in the mail...its cool!

uncomfortable to build one? youtube it.


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## grumblingcrustacean (Jan 31, 2006)

I have two bikes ~$5k, first was a custom touring bike that I really wanted but couldn't afford when I was in grad school (it was cheaper back then, I've had that bike for 8 or so years now); the second was a Niner carbon double boinger that was justified because I had managed to snap a second XTR rear derailleur on my old bike in a couple of month period. Clearly something was telling me a new bike was needed


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## bipedal_mammal (May 18, 2015)

Buy a 2500$ bike, spend another 2500$ on a killer bike vacation


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ But when you get home, you still have a $2,500 bike. You could have had a $5,000 bike.


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## bipedal_mammal (May 18, 2015)

Touché! I will bike vicariously through truongasaurus!


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Oh yeah, it helps to have no kids


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

How do I justify a $5,000 bike? 

I ride it.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

You don't need to justify it if it's your money.

I recently bought a custom bike for 8,000 bucks to realise my dream. Since the day I bought it, I have ridden over 250kms a week. It's pure joy...

From a health perspective, it will definitely keep your mind and body healthy and there is some justification if that's what you want.


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## Camaleon (May 10, 2006)

Life's to short buy the damn bicycle!


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

I bought a bike for $2000, was quite happy at the beginning, however I've spent in addition $2000 for the upgrades during year.

Next time I'll definitely buy $5000, without any regrets!

good equipment never beeing cheap


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

$5000 to me is 39,000NOK (Norwegian Kroner)...
Stay with me - I just need to convert the amount into something that means something to me, a point of reference, if you will...

For me, 20,000NOK has always been the limit for buying a new bike - but then again I very rarely have so much disposable income. 

That said for me it boils down to this; if you buy the bike to look pretty and pose in front of other bikers to show off your new super expensive carbon whip then the cost isn't justified. I also hate you. If you buy the bike because you love the sport and you ride the s**t out of it then the money is well spent.

Plus come on! Your wife agreed to it! Quick! Buy buy buy before she changes her mind. Plus plus the Evil Following is an effing sweet bike. 

I'm having a hell of a time getting the wife to agree to a $300 set of XT wheels! 
You, sir have married a keeper


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## bw_young (Apr 3, 2011)

When my wife has spent more than $30k on bikes in the last two years, I have that going for me. So $5k is a no brainier but I still hesitate at the $9500 I currently want to spend.

She buys bikes like shoes. 

There are advantages to being dinks.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

tehllama said:


> If our mid-range travel bikes are climbing on par with XC rigs from 6-9 years ago.


that is kind of cool but otoh i was hoping the weight of these things would come down but if anything are slightly heavier, 2008 full squish carbon bike vs today


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## ddbtoth (Apr 8, 2015)

My money-my desire...my wife spends her money on a buch of little crap all the time-a steady stream of boxes from Amazon. She wanted a new kitchen remodel, I said here's a check for 30,000, get it done, don't bother me with any details. She hemmed and hawed, said "I'll do something and you'll *****" I said no I wouldn't. 
She screwed around till I wanted a new car (been driving my old one for 17 years-which was why I had the cash). I went out and bought the Honda, told her "to late babe-spent the money-next time I offer, take me up on it". My money, I spend it how I wish too-don't tell her how to spend her money-don't ask permission either. Seriously, grow a pair dude.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

ddbtoth said:


> My money-my desire...my wife spends her money on a buch of little crap all the time-a steady stream of boxes from Amazon. She wanted a new kitchen remodel, I said here's a check for 30,000, get it done, don't bother me with any details. She hemmed and hawed, said "I'll do something and you'll *****" I said no I wouldn't.
> She screwed around till I wanted a new car (been driving my old one for 17 years-which was why I had the cash). I went out and bought the Honda, told her "to late babe-spent the money-next time I offer, take me up on it". My money, I spend it how I wish too-don't tell her how to spend her money-don't ask permission either. Seriously, grow a pair dude.


Wow. I didnt know they had internet in the 1950s.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Here is an example...my bike: 100% made from eBay with some prime parts. Forgot to add some Ti bolts on the list









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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

LOL He said justify...


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

irishpitbull said:


> LOL He said justify...


To my world, needs, taste, riding style and much needed garage time...4K justifies indeed, in fact I feel in credit yet and I might keep upgrading for the near future.:thumbsup:


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

That build confuses me. A Scott twinloc (whatever that is) used as a front derailleur, plus a front derailleur? Is that only one shifter though its obviously a 2X10?


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

pcmark said:


> That build confuses me. A Scott twinloc (whatever that is) used as a front derailleur, plus a front derailleur? Is that only one shifter though its obviously a 2X10?


Ops...its fixed...was typo, meant to say used as a front shifter!


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

In my eyes, $5K = Pivot Mach 6.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I don't, because I can't.

I justify spending what I can afford though with:
1. Quality if life. Eat well, stay safe, die anyway. My friend died as a passenger in a car accident, only months from retiring from the military. Up until then he basically cared more about enjoying life then his career, so he didn't carry much rank. But he enjoy what he had. He rode bulls, road dirt bikes and worked on cars with his son, and enjoyed his work.

2. In the case I do live long, fitness means I'll enjoy my life more as I age since I'll be in better shape. It is health insurance.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

Hawg said:


> In my eyes, $5K = Pivot Mach 6.


+1, Hawg! :thumbsup:

I got mine for $4,250 but I still refer to it for what it's worth, a +$5k bike. I first saw it in one of the sidebar ads on this site and thought, "Damn! That bike is a frickin' utilitarian, burly, sexy looking beast!" Had never heard of Pivot before but did some reading and found all the rewards and positive reviews and thought since I was in the market for a new bike, I'd look into demoing one. I couldn't find a factory demo on the east coast, or even an owner in NC.

I'd demoed several other bikes and had almost given up on finding a Pivot, and was getting ready to pull the trigger on a Stumpy or a Remedy when a M6 w/ XX1 build popped up on Pinkbike in a town about an hour away. I met him at his house to go look at it and try for fit - like a glove it did. Then I offered to give him every penny I'd save up to that point, $4,250 if he'd throw in the KS LEV Integra post and let me ride at San Lee with him to really compare it to the others I'd ridden.

Although I was still recovering from a shoulder fracture and couldn't ride very hard, I was immediately hooked! I hope yours is healing well so far BTW, Hawg. I have to admit I think the Stumpy was slightly more comfortable on the descents with the longer wheelbase, but the M6 did everything else far better, and now that I'm completely comfortable on it, descends and jumps even better.

My months of diligent research and demoing and searching really paid off. I got a $7,500 bike for barely over 1/2 of retail. It's far more bike than my skills will likely ever match, but damn if I don't have a lot of fun on that thing. Some would flame me and outrun me on their Huffy and say there's no way I'm doing my $5,000 bike justice. But to those guys I have this response, "F you! I'm a single man spending my own damn money on it. My bills are all paid. This bike is my pride and joy. I ride it every chance I get and have the time of my life on it. And there's no reason I have to answer or justify to anyone what I buy with my money and do with my time."


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

If I was to spend that much coin on a mountain bike, I'd get one with a carbon fiber frame.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

For anyone else with the same question, peer pressure can get to you, when it comes to riding certain things on the trails if you're in a riding group. If they have $5000 bikes, why aren't you on one? What are you giving up by not being on one? Can't say that the bike has no fault at all when the big crash comes that injures you. How much do those injuries cost?

I really like a lot about that Evil, but I'm waiting for the new Yeti SI 29er to be unveiled. Probably going to be way over $5k, considering the frame is probably going to be about $3300, adding on decent susp, wheels, brakes, tires, drivetrain, etc.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Custom Ti frames owners are looking at this thread and probably laughing at it....5k is usually the price of the frame only.
Blaksheep/Lynskey/Ericksen/Moots/Funk...Just google it


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

With the YT Capra, it looks like you get a lot for 5K.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

I buy them when they are 1 year old. The depreciation on bikes is much higher than CARS!


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

I've never justified my bike spending. It is what it is. However I've never been challenged so I guess I've never really had to justify spending big dollars. If somebody asks I probably wouldn't tell them since if they have to ask then they'll never understand.


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

natrat said:


> that is kind of cool but otoh i was hoping the weight of these things would come down but if anything are slightly heavier, 2008 full squish carbon bike vs today


I think some of that has to do with the late '00s bikes being a bit needlessly flimsy, and another part of that is figuring out what more tire on wider rims can usually mean more speed overall, despite the opportunity cost of using those same parts to cut overall weight. Same with even the frames - as much as being really lightweight with some of the built-in compliance if using the bare minimum material looks better on paper, if the real world feedback is that the bike if flexy more than compliant, then it just plain needs more material in those key points.

Varaxis - right on point with that stuff - at this point I'm just waiting, saving, and plotting. I know that the Evil Following will have more competition soon, in the form of an Yeti SI-5 29er, SantaCruz Tallboy LT2, and extant 2016 StumpjumperFSR-29 and Trek Remedy29. Throw in some outside players (maybe Pivot Mach5.9, RM InstinctBC, Norco Fluid Carbon, Kona Process 127-29, or Mondraker Crafty Carbon) and that market segment could become packed with top notch stuff... and hopefully the result is some direct price competition after all those respective models are shown to be conclusively amazing in their own rights.

It'll be cool when the rest of the components also hit some more sweet spot thresholds - 9-42/9-44/10-45T cassettes that have a Price in USD and Weight in grams that don't sum up to over 600; proliferation of ~750g cranksets with narrow/wide chainrings that get cheaper; ~500g 30mm internal width rims; ~800g 2.3-2.5x29" enduro racing proven tires; more long top tube short stem designed bikes, and the 35mm cockpit parts to go with... once these get a little less shiny and new, they'll fit into $5k builds, and the cumulative effect is going to be a couple pounds of savings with virtually no loss in capability and minimal added cost.


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## Gianter (May 9, 2015)

Some people just have too much money and it means nothing to them. I have a masters and am moving up in the world. Come from a mixed background. It's hard for me to tell what's normal. Amongst the aristocracy we don't see too many poors around here. From tv we think 30 to 50k is normal. However in most of the private sector managers are making 30k on a high end. Remember military and cops are paid more than the average bear to retain their loyalty. They will make 30 to 50 k. This above average. Let's say avg is 25 k. Probably less. They may throw some numbers out but a real avg takes into account the one percent controlling 95 percent of income. So the avg salary may look like 70 k but the avg person as I say is around 25 k just above poverty. The majority in our sport at all are making more than that.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Gianter said:


> Some people just have too much money and it means nothing to them. I have a masters and am moving up in the world......So the avg salary may look like 70 k but the avg person as I say is around 25 k just above poverty. The majority in our sport at all are making more than that.


A little philosophizing going on here, but damned if I can see a significant association to this thread.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Gianter said:


> Some people just have too much money and it means nothing to them.


That's very unfair of you to say. Who are you to say how other people feel about the money they have? And, however they feel about their own money, it's no ones business.


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> That's very unfair of you to say. Who are you to say how other people feel about the money they have? And, however they feel about their own money, it's no ones business.


Yeah, he better quit while he's still ahead. I have to earn every penny just like the person making 25k, and I care because I'm hoping to retire some day without being dependent on the government. You have no idea how important that is to me.

As to the OP, my bike was a little less than 5k (but I paid more than that for 2 bikes last year but can only ride 1...cracked frame on the SC), but I hit a milestone in my career and had decided that I would get myself a new bike when that happened.

I should have just bought a new bike from the start last year, but I TRIED to be frugal and got what seemed like a great deal. Found the frame crack a few days before Christmas, so then it was a Christmas present to myself. Justified.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Gianter said:


> Some people just have too much money and it means nothing to them. I have a masters and am moving up in the world. Come from a mixed background. It's hard for me to tell what's normal. Amongst the aristocracy we don't see too many poors around here. From tv we think 30 to 50k is normal. However in most of the private sector managers are making 30k on a high end. Remember military and cops are paid more than the average bear to retain their loyalty. They will make 30 to 50 k. This above average. Let's say avg is 25 k. Probably less. They may throw some numbers out but a real avg takes into account the one percent controlling 95 percent of income. So the avg salary may look like 70 k but the avg person as I say is around 25 k just above poverty. The majority in our sport at all are making more than that.


I have no idea where you're getting your information but it's not very accurate.


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## Terp (Jul 25, 2013)

Gianter said:


> They may throw some numbers out but a real avg takes into account the one percent controlling 95 percent of income. So the avg salary may look like 70 k but the avg person as I say is around 25 k just above poverty. The majority in our sport at all are making more than that.


That's why most reliable sources quote the median and not the average so we can rest easy that the average person is not flirting with the poverty line. But I'll agree that mtb is most certainly a hobby that favors those with plenty of disposable income.

As for the original question, it was still a few g's less than the engagement ring so there was no valid counter argument.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

edubfromktown said:


> I buy them when they are 1 year old. The depreciation on bikes is much higher than CARS!


A big difference is that car warranties stay with the car's VIN, transfering to subsequent owners. Don't underestimate the value of a warranty on bike stuff, and the abuse that the bikes take not only when ridden, but also when being transported, washed, maintained, and even stored. You are gambling, and should be mechanically inclined. Gets easier and easier as you gain experience from dealing with other used stuff. It's a rather deep bottom for new people jumping into the pool of used goods though.


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## Gianter (May 9, 2015)

Cleared2land said:


> A little philosophizing going on here, but damned if I can see a significant association to this thread.


I was answering the original question. What are you doing?

To the rest: you can feel how you want to feel about your money others can feel how they want to feel or know what they know. Says the guy on a horse. And spec44 if you brought 2 5k bikes last year and one this year then you dont really care. You either have plenty of cash, are reckless or are a hardcore surf bum living in a shack which i doubt. Just doesn't fit with someone concerned about retirement.

Mookie I get my information from observations of my surroundings.

I'm sure there are some people of meager means really into it and saved up. I dont think they would get offended at the realization of how ridiculous that is to the common person though.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Gianter said:


> I was answering the original question. What are you doing?
> 
> To the rest: you can feel how you want to feel about your money others can feel how they want to feel or know what they know. Says the guy on a horse. And spec44 if you brought 2 5k bikes last year and one this year then you dont really care. You either have plenty of cash, are reckless or are a hardcore surf bum living in a shack which i doubt. Just doesn't fit with someone concerned about retirement.
> 
> ...


Any chance that you'll be taking an English class any time soon?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mookie said:


> Any chance that you'll be taking an English class any time soon?


Haha, ROFLMFAO!! It pretty much explains why he's so panty wedged about the high prices of bikes.


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## Mookie (Feb 28, 2008)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Haha, ROFLMFAO!! It pretty much explains why he's so panty wedged about the high prices of bikes.


Lol, he did mention that his information comes from observing his surroundings so everything seems to be adding up.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Mookie said:


> Lol, he did mention that his information comes from observing his surroundings so everything seems to be adding up.


Yeah, it's funny how that works!


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## tehllama (Jul 18, 2013)

Having spent years basically living the less luxurious half of being a surf bum on E3-E5 pay in Hawaii (and 'wasting' the rest on med school tuition), I know it's entirely possible to avoid spending money on lots of things and direct it towards stuff that really matters... now that my wife has her MD, I suddenly would have five figures of disposable income compared to where I was; instead I'm finishing my ME and we're back to squeaking by on just GI Bill housing allowance and books stipend -- not extravagant, but I still have two really nice bikes and we spend the rest on the healthiest food we both like.

Median income in the US is a lot closer to $50,000 per year, and the rest of the distribution puts anybody within two sigma of that comfortably into the top half percent of income earners across the planet. 
Another factor is the sort of person who will voluntarily go out, buy a mechanical contraption to sit on a pedal their brains out over miles of singletrack tends not to be the average joe - more often than not the mountain biker type is generally more active, less paralyzingly risk averse, and typically aren't putting 140% of their real income into cars/clothes/electronics/crap they can't actually afford, siphoning off giant fractions of take-home income into interest payments. 
So, the 'average' MTB-er is probably closer to, if not above that median income figure, probably spends less on other materialistic junk than the median family unit, and thus spending a few thousand dollars on a recreational vehicle that will last a few years is really pretty decent economy when compared to virtually every other hobby that involves active technology transfer from aerospace.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I believe that if someone wants a $5000 bike bad enough, there's allways a way to get it. Overtime, extra job, saving, 0% credit card, whatever it takes, if it's that important to you. But definitely, no whining about it. I believe it was Charles Darwin that said, "dove hunting is worth whatever it costs". I kinda feel the same about riding MTBs.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Bringing this expense into a relationship...if my wife comes complaining about me spending money with bikes...I tell her that she's lucky that my hobby is not motorcycles! 


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> Bringing this expense into a relationship...if my wife comes complaining about me spending money with bikes...I tell her that she's lucky that my hobby is not motorcycles!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I do both and I think I've spent more on mountain bikes.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

tehllama said:


> I think some of that has to do with the late '00s bikes being a bit needlessly flimsy, and another part of that is figuring out what more tire on wider rims can usually mean more speed overall, despite the opportunity cost of using those same parts to cut overall weight. Same with even the frames - as much as being really lightweight with some of the built-in compliance if using the bare minimum material looks better on paper, if the real world feedback is that the bike if flexy more than compliant, then it just plain needs more material in those key points.


I was nowhere near the high end of the market in those years. But I can say that when I moved to the Pacific Northwest, I went to bigger tires, when I got a new bike with wider bars, I stuck with them, recently I got wider rims, etc. I get a kick out of going racing and I like to be competitive with my peers. So if I thought any of those things was slowing me down, I wouldn't use it.

Does my bike weigh more? Yes. Some other things that make it weigh more are 29" wheels and rear suspension. It's a lot of bike. I get a big kick out of it and am as competitive as ever, maybe a little more so on a good day.

When I'm in a place where I feel comfortable buying a $5000 bike, I'll want all those same things. I figure there'll just be a bit more carbon involved. 

Since it's come up, the median household income in my state in '13 was $58,405. The idea of blowing 10% of my income on a bicycle seems a bit outlandish to me, but I think a $5000 bike is also a lot higher than a median bike. I think what people spend on bikes has more to do with what they can stomach spending on a discretionary expense than anything else. Not dedication to the sport or skill - we've all seen at least a few really badly out of shape riders who can't handle their bikes on really nice hardware. I've even met a couple of those guys; they made a lot of money and bought the bike with the price tag that seemed reasonable in their world.

It is a little scary to me that the median _household_ income is $58,405. A household can consist of a single guy in his late twenties who's making that much money and is quite comfortable, but it seems like it would be pretty hard for two people and three children. I'm too lazy to dive through the statistics and try to develop a sense of how that sort of thing is distributed.

I think my teammates and other dedicated riders tend to spend a greater proportion of their income on bikes and bike-related travel than people who are less into it. But it still really comes down to what people feel comfortable spending.

If you want to say something about the economic system that rewards some people really heavily for doing things that seem of little value to you and allows some people who are really trying to do well to struggle, that's kind of another issue. But everyone who has a discretionary budget is going to use it as they see fit. And I don't think it really makes a lot of sense to try to justify use of that budget - if I have to twist myself in knots trying to justify what I spend on a bike, it's too expensive. If I can say, "I want this bike and the rest of my financial house is in enough order for me to buy this bike without borrowing or hardship," that's good enough.

I tried to justify a commute bike financially. Actually, a few times. Because I really wanted to believe I was saving money by bike commuting. It's really hard to beat a bus, though. Commute bikes get chewed, so even buying an inexpensive one tends to have recurring maintenance costs that beat out just buying a damn bus pass. Ultimately, I ended up just saying that I enjoy it, and I enjoy the sense of freedom.

I guess all that is still justifying a bike. But when I hear "justify" I think of mental contortions that try to make a bike something I "need" or an "investment." I don't pretend either of those things. I enjoy mountain biking, I enjoy riding my shiny new bike, and I think most of the money I spent on it is never coming back.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> I do both and I think I've spent more on mountain bikes.


Are you sure? Discount the gas that you would use if was a motorcycle! Lol

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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> Are you sure? Discount the gas that you would use if was a motorcycle! Lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Dirt bikes get pretty good gas mileage, especially on the street. Now, what about the fuel it takes to keep a person riding a MTB?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> A little philosophizing going on here, but damned if I can see a significant association to this thread.





Gianter said:


> I was answering the original question. What are you doing? .


Well, I did answer it. Go back a little farther...or just see below.



Cleared2land said:


> I don't have to justify it. I want it, I can afford it, I get it.
> 
> That's my justification.


However, I failed to see that you answered it as you said. 
You justified it by ranting about questionable socio-economic situations with un-cited data that appear to relate more to a sample group position, rather than yours. I understand the hierarchical social structure...it's reality, but it hardly addresses the question.


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

Gianter said:


> I was answering the original question. What are you doing?
> 
> To the rest: you can feel how you want to feel about your money others can feel how they want to feel or know what they know. Says the guy on a horse. And spec44 if you brought 2 5k bikes last year and one this year then you dont really care. You either have plenty of cash, are reckless or are a hardcore surf bum living in a shack which i doubt. Just doesn't fit with someone concerned about retirement.
> 
> ...


Not sure why I'm responding, but reading is fundamental. I passed a licensing exam last spring that I should have taken 15 years ago, but was making decent money and focused on other things. To motivate me to take the exam, I promised myself a new bike. I got my exam results and started shopping, because I had promised myself that, and also received a substantial pay increase. While I was shopping, a nicely spec'd used bike hit my radar, and I bought it. Six months later what I originally thought was a scratch at a critical location showed up much better as a crack in the frame. So I went shopping again during the last week of 2014, and spent enough money on a new bike, that the total for both bikes well $5000. So I spent over $5000 last year and have one bike, and a valuable lesson, to show for the expense.

I'm not worried about retirement. I have a plan to be prepared for it when the day I quit working comes, and spending the money I did on a (pair of) bike(s) fits within that plan.

So please don't worry yourself as to whether I am "reckless" with the money I earn. It is given to plenty of "poor" people, I promise.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I think its interesting that people will spend $20,000+ on a brand new economy car and no one blinks. Some might even look down on them for not buying a more expensive car. Some people do this every few years.

If someone spends 5 grand on a bike, its worth discussing for 6 pages.

It doesnt actually matter and I dont really care, its just interesting from a social perception standpoint. Its pretty hard to justify a healthy hobby purchase, but its very easy to justify other items.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

I think you have to factor in mileage. If you only ride for a single season throughout the year and then only a handful of times, I don't think it makes sense. But if you ride multiple times a week and are riding long distances or are tackling steazy terrain (or both), a cheaper bike won't cut it.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

One Pivot said:


> I think its interesting that people will spend $20,000+ on a brand new economy car and no one blinks. Some might even look down on them for not buying a more expensive car. Some people do this every few years.
> 
> If someone spends 5 grand on a bike, its worth discussing for 6 pages.
> 
> It doesnt actually matter and I dont really care, its just interesting from a social perception standpoint. Its pretty hard to justify a healthy hobby purchase, but its very easy to justify other items.


This seems backwards to me. Most people have to have a car. It's kinda hard to buy a new car under 20k. For me, it's very easy to justify, or I should say, I don't have to justify a healthy hobby purchase.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

I should have said its hard to justify hobby purchases to other people... not that you should, or have to. People look at you like you're insane if you spend more than a couple hundred bucks on a bicycle, then they get into their 30k car.

Transportation is a necessity for most, but we could all get by with a $5000 used corolla or something. Its socially acceptable to treat yourself to a nicer car for tens of thousands of dollars more, but people think its weird to spend a fraction of that on a healthy hobby. 

Its just interesting how we judge priorities. Relatively small hobby purchases get scrutinized much more than huge very expensive purchases.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

SDMTB'er said:


> I think you have to factor in mileage. If you only ride for a single season throughout the year and then only a handful of times, I don't think it makes sense. But if you ride multiple times a week and are riding long distances or are tackling steazy terrain (or both), a cheaper bike won't cut it.


A valid point that's so elementary that I'm surprised that I didn't think of that. Good point.

I ride about 4-5K a year, so I guess that I'm getting some value from my ride. But even if was only able to ride half of that, I would still be able to justify the expenditure...the fun and value would just be the icing...and I like icing.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

One Pivot said:


> I should have said its hard to justify hobby purchases to other people... not that you should, or have to. People look at you like you're insane if you spend more than a couple hundred bucks on a bicycle, then they get into their 30k car.
> 
> Transportation is a necessity for most, but we could all get by with a $5000 used corolla or something. Its socially acceptable to treat yourself to a nicer car for tens of thousands of dollars more, but people think its weird to spend a fraction of that on a healthy hobby.
> 
> Its just interesting how we judge priorities. Relatively small hobby purchases get scrutinized much more than huge very expensive purchases.


Got it!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I have driven the same vehicle for 11 years now. It's been long paid for. I have no need or interest in having a new vehicle. There's nothing wrong with those who choose to place their resources toward what ever they elect. It's their money and we all are free to spend on whatever. 

The problem begins when people decide they want something they really can't afford. The irresistible need to satisfy instant gratification often find people pursuing a direction they probably shouldn't. Misplaced enthusiasm gets some in trouble.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Only 3 things in life I was taught never to scrimp on:

1) My Health
2) My Hobbies
3) My Family

The rest...I am a cheapskate(except the Porsche SUV).


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> The problem begins when people decide they want something they really can't afford. The irresistible need to satisfy instant gratification often find people pursuing a direction they probably shouldn't. Misplaced enthusiasm gets some in trouble.


+1 to this. If you can afford, justify and enjoy an expensive new bicycle, get one. Or two!

But if you can't afford it, then don't think for a second that you _need_ an expensive bike. Once you know what you're looking for, and ideally you can work on them yourself, you can find great deals on NOS and used MTBs.

A lot of sports and hobbies can be expensive. MTB isn't exceedingly so, and it's great for your body and soul. :thumbsup:


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## mass-hole (Oct 6, 2011)

You could just buy and sell bikes yearly like the people around here. Then its almost like a lease, you just spend ~$1000 to ride each season based on the hit you take selling your bike used.

I feel a little bad because I am already thinking about a new bike, but I bought my current bike when I was riding in MA and I spent a lot less time pointed downhill.


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## ConchoBill (Jan 12, 2015)

As an old guy getting back into biking, and liking off pavement stuff, this is pretty interesting, since my entry level Trek is the most expensive, and IMO, the best bike I have ever owned. At the same time I think I am going to buy a SuperFly 8 after I finish a major portion of a project that my wife really wanted. This "project" is nothing easy! (A pretty good sized rock working job, to be followed by some wood finishing, and carpentry.) 

And this super splurge bike for me will cost less than 1/2 of the figure we are talking about here. But I can easily assure you all, I will not be competing as any kind of bike racer!


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I was chatting with a friend (Jason) after a recent race, be mentioned another guy we know who just upgraded bikes. The guy (Mike) kept asking Jason questions, trying to narrow down a bike.

Jason said "I didn't know what to tell him, I don't buy anything worth less then $6000."

He did just win a 12 Hour solo race, so he takes his MTB pretty serious. He lost another 12 Hour by one lap after he seized his BB. He got back to the pits, put on running shoes, and carried his bike for one more 10 mile lap.

So, there are lots of reasons to justify a $5000 bike.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Sidewalk said:


> He lost another 12 Hour by one lap after he seized his BB. He got back to the pits, put on running shoes, and carried his bike for one more 10 mile lap.


That is very hard to believe. Perhaps you heard him wrong, or he was embellishing a bit.

Because it sounds like total bullshat. Bottom brackets don't seize unless they are very severely neglected for a long time. They will grind and be annoying for a LONG time before locking up, and any sensible person would service or replace it, rather than have it seize... especially a person that takes their MTBing seriously.

Then we get to the notion of carrying a bike for 10 miles just to avoid a DNF. Yeah. Maybe you would carry it 100 yards, but no one would carry it 10 miles.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

ColinL said:


> That is very hard to believe. Perhaps you heard him wrong, or he was embellishing a bit.
> 
> Because it sounds like total bullshat. Bottom brackets don't seize unless they are very severely neglected for a long time. They will grind and be annoying for a LONG time before locking up, and any sensible person would service or replace it, rather than have it seize... especially a person that takes their MTBing seriously.
> 
> Then we get to the notion of carrying a bike for 10 miles just to avoid a DNF. Yeah. Maybe you would carry it 100 yards, but no one would carry it 10 miles.


The statement, "He lost another 12 Hour by one lap", is a little strange. What the hell does that mean?


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## Speed Goat (Dec 31, 2013)

Sidewalk said:


> He did just win a 12 Hour solo race, so he takes his MTB pretty serious. He lost another 12 Hour by one lap after he seized his BB. He got back to the pits, put on running shoes, and carried his bike for one more 10 mile lap.











Just messing with you, but that does sound far fetched.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

He didn't carry it all 10 miles, you can still roll down hill without pedaling.

Second, he is a finisher of the SD100. You don't think someone who can run 100 miles in 24 hours can handle pushing an 18 pound bike 5-8 miles?

The course was approximately 10 miles. You do as many laps in 12 hours as possible. If your last lap put you in at 12 hours and one minute, then it doesn't count. So he lost by one lap means he was leading by roughly a half a lap, but lost by a full lap after he was only able to complete one in the same time it took the other guy to catch up, pass, and then put in another 10 mile lap.

Curious why a guy who finishes on the podium routinely in the pro or open classes would embellish. I mean, you can't lie about results when they are on the internet.

PEREZ RIPS FASTEST LAP AT 12 HOURS OF WEAVERVILLE | Weaverville24.US - 2015 WEMBO World Solo 24 Hour Mountain Biking Championships


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

So the problem is certainly in how you've described it in post #151.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I did edit my post before hitting submit to remove insults as I figured, maybe it was a mid understanding.

But the original point stands, justify your spending how you like. If a $5000 MTB is that important to you, then find a way. Mine is a slightly sub $5k MSRP bike that was dirt cheap as old stock. I also commute to work on a bike I bought for $40 and have invested roughly $300 into for improvements.


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## John Palladini (Jun 16, 2015)

Well i guess if you have money, then you not worried about what you buy. I just bought a Fatboy 1500 bucks! I was really not sure i should spend it, it is a great bike i think everyone that rides in the woods should at least try a Fatty out! I don't see why the world wouldn't be on a Fatty! now i hurt my shoulder and i cant ride it yet again..  it was so dumb how i hit a log i didn't see and turned into superman! But $1500 bucks was very hard for me to justify it but i did it and its a Fun fast bike!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

The education system in America is definitely not what it used to be!


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> The education system in America is definitely not what it used to be!


Aye


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I have a pet peeve when it come to value for money (maybe Im just cheap). For me, $5000 puts a bike in the diminishing returns category and I am not a pro racer to whom seconds can make it or break it. From experience, I think the sweet spot for a fully to be a last years model going for around $3000-3500, this value would be significantly less for a hardtail. I probably wouldnt buy a 5000 dollar bike even if I had the disposable income of Warren Buffet, its just not worth it for me, it wont make me any happier than a 3000 bike. But, if it makes you happy and you can pay for it, by all mean, go ahead, thats all that matters.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

abelfonseca said:


> I I probably wouldnt buy a 5000 dollar bike even if I had the disposable income of Warren Buffet...


Right...

Having a $72 BILLION net worth wouldn't change me either.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

Cleared2land said:


> Right...
> 
> Having a $72 BILLION net worth wouldn't change me either.


Well, most of that is tied up in stocks, bonds and what not. 😁


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Cleared2land said:


> Right...
> 
> Having a $72 BILLION net worth wouldn't change me either.


People don't get there spending more money on things than they think they're worth.

Actually, that's the exact opposite of the school of investing Warren Buffett says he's part of.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

It's true. The best purchasers are the ones with the most money. 
Put it this way - you have a lot more purchasing power if your supplier thinks he is going to make a big sale with the possibility of you coming back to purchase more. 
Another way to put it is that a 10% discount on a Ferrari is a heck of a big saving compared to a 10% discount on a Kia.

Procurement 101, that is.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

For some reason if I was in the position where purchasing an Aston Martin Vantage V12 was an option, then a $5000 bike probably wouldn't phase me. I mean, that is just the cost of maintenance on a Veyron.

But alas, I'm on a $1200 bike.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

... and the rest  IIRC the Veyron needs four new tyres every major service and the super duper light as a feather magnesium alloy wheels only last 18,000KM (although that might just be on the Super Sport). After that they need replacing... Plus 16 spark plugs (assuming that there is only one per cylinder) plus the super duper synthetic oil, plus a flush and re filling on each of the four (IIRC) radiators plus plus plus plus... I shudder to think about the cost of a timing belt change... Ownership costs, yo.

Interesting side story - one of my best friends fathers recently bought himself a Vantage V8 (Senior guy in the oil industry - he is just coming up for retirement and thought the V12 was too loud ). 

I will most likely never be in a position to buy anything that expensive with my own money - be it a Veyron, a Vantage or a 5,000USD bike. 

I'm on a bike that cost me approximately 2200USD (at today's exchange rate) and it's a fully rigid carbon drop bar 26er and all the bike I will ever need - it can grind gravel, it can ride road (with the right tyres) it can commute, it can handle XC abuse (if I know the route is particularly full of gnar then I'll stick on my 100mm travel fork and rocket rons) and if it's a race (i.e. drop bars are a no-no according to the UCI rules) then I'll stick on my 700mm wide risers. Of course, I didn't buy it that way & I didn't factor in the cost of all the additional parts I bought to get it the way I like...

It won't handle all mountain / enduro / DH shenanigans but then again I don't ride that sort of thing so it doesn't really bother me.

All that fun for less than half the amount the OP mentions.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Most of us are probably already in a position to buy a $5000 bike. I could do it during my lunch break if I wanted to.

I don't because it's still a lot of money for me and I'm not sure I'll be getting a lot of miles after my baby is born, or if that might tighten up my financial situation enough that it will feel like a dumb move. A bike I bought for $900 several years ago felt pretty dumb when the economy freaked out a few months later.

It's really a gut check. Since I live on earned income, I often peg these things to how many days' or weeks' pay they represent. A lot of the time, I really don't want to go over a week. For racing bikes, I tend to spend about two weeks. Commuters, I tried to stuff inside a day until it became apparent to me that I was losing on cost of ownership with bikes old enough to be that cheap.

In other words, like someone else said, if the $5000 bike grabs you, you figure out how to afford it. "Afford" is a really flexible word when it's someone who does have some disposable income.

I didn't even really consider the next more expensive step when I bought my last bike. The one I did buy already ships with nice suspension and name-brand everything, already cost what feels like a lot, and the features I'd get from the next step up didn't seem worth it in my context at the time. I've paid off my student loans and got a raise since then, so I might feel differently now. But it's not like I couldn't have spent $5000 at the time. I'd still have been on top of my living costs and able to make payments on my loans. Just failed the gut check.


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## coke (Jun 7, 2008)

I've moved away from dirt bikes, 4wheelers, and side by sides, and mountain bikes have taken their place. A $5,000 bike is really a bargain for how often I get to use it and the decrease in maintenance compared to the other vehicles. I mostly have the same amount of fun as before, and although mountain biking is dangerous, I'm typically not driving 60+ mph or hitting 80'+ jumps. Getting older and more conscious of safety and risk.

Here's what some of my other hobbies cost for comparison. This doesn't include things like fuel, top end rebuilds, expensive riding gear, etc...

I had around $14,000 in my Arctic Cat side by side. I also had to buy a trailer to haul it.

I had around $13,000 in my Honda 450r 4wheeler (lots of upgrades)

My last bike was a used 2005 Honda CR125 so I only had around $2,000 in it.


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## John Palladini (Jun 16, 2015)

Well i am a cheap dude! I do alot of catamaran sailing on weekends! The sailing sport is very cheap and is fun if you are a social person! You can meet people easily and hang out and picnic and camp and stuff, you can buy a catamaran from 500 to 7k that can be pulled by a car! So i wouldnt have a problem with that money because of what it is and because i LOVE it. Just like Mountain bike riding it takes me back to when i was a kid in the woods playing around building ramps making trails! So i say if whatever it is you are buying, make sure you are going to use it!

1. Make sure you are gonna use it!
2. Make sure you are comfortable on it!
3. Do you have the money right now for it!
4. Again where am i gonna go with it what am i gonna do with it
5. Don't buy something because of your neighbor.

Those are my rules when i buy something that other people might think is stupid! 
When i got on the Fat bike it FIT me so good, I knew i could ride this for my main bike!


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

OK

when I was my fastest and superfit (+400watts for an hour, no biggie,
age 19-25)
I had to have the ultimate bikes and went and got them....

now I have a real job, way more money,
and am fatter and slower, I now buy mid-range bikes
2000-3000 and they are 98% of what the $7000 bikes are. but I am not chasing
results, just wanna be as fast as 'the local fast guy'

If I got a wild hair up me bum and wanted to race and only IF I was close to the podium, I would go right back out and get back into $7000 range and higher, but also I would be back to 400 watt range and have everything else in place first (the physical part).


I do not want to be the guy with the 7000 bike who sucks at riding. I want to be the guy who can take a 2000-3000 stocker and kick local arse.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Ghost_HTX said:


> It's true. The best purchasers are the ones with the most money.
> Put it this way - you have a lot more purchasing power if your supplier thinks he is going to make a big sale with the possibility of you coming back to purchase more.
> Another way to put it is that a 10% discount on a Ferrari is a heck of a big saving compared to a 10% discount on a Kia.
> 
> Procurement 101, that is.


Except, you'll never find a Ferrari at a 10% discount.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

^ I completely agree. Nothing gives a sense of satisfaction like catching/passing/parking a guy on a much nicer bike. But then again nothing sucks so bad as being caught/passed/parked by a rider on an ancient POS.

True fact.


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## Ghost_HTX (Sep 19, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Except, you'll never find a Ferrari at a 10% discount.


I used a fairly crap example. But the logic stands.


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

I am a relatively cheap dude:
- Bought a house that cost about 1.5 times my annual salary
- I take public transportation to work everyday (55 mile round trip commute)
- I bring my lunch to work most days
- Don't have all the fancy electronic gizmos most folks have
- Ect... ect.. ect... 

But when it comes to bike (my only true passion anymore outside of my family) I do splurge. I have three bikes that retailed for over $5k... one was just under $8k. But because I spend so much time on my bikes and my wife understand my passion for riding, she is OK with the spend and so am I. I just have to make sure not to spend frivolously on other things to keep it all in check. 

When I was racing cars/motorcycles I was riding around on a $1k bike because those two track sports can get super expensive. 

It's all about weighing your desires, your financial situation and what you're willing to sacrifice.


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

127.0.0.1 said:


> when I was my fastest and superfit (+400watts for an hour, no biggie,
> age 19-25)


That's a **** ton of power... so you were basically Pro/1 roadie power? I'm also assuming you aren't 250lbs.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

CBRsteve said:


> I am a relatively cheap dude:
> - Bought a house that cost about 1.5 times my annual salary
> - I take public transportation to work everyday (55 mile round trip commute)
> - I bring my lunch to work most days
> ...


Go figure, my MTB is my most expensive toy (not counting my project RS125 that I'm selling). Ever race mini bikes? Tires that last a whole season really makes it much more affordable, and it is what Jorge Lorenzo practices on (when he isn't lifting or mountain biking).

I commute on my $400 CX bike (paid $40, that is value with everything I have done to it).


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

CBRsteve said:


> That's a **** ton of power... so you were basically Pro/1 roadie power? I'm also assuming you aren't 250lbs.


I was 144 lbs, pure roadie, and rode/club raced regularly with 1's and pros on weekdays in upstate NY, whiteface mt/lake placid hills...and put in 20,000 miles a year. I made fast progress and won the club rides every third or fifth go, I just could not afford actual racing travel or the time (was in air force at the time) so yeah, superfit, no where to use it except club rides

coulda woulda shoulda there are lots of sports stories like these. circumstances changed quick when I got in a bad wreck and some of my quadriceps were severed, that took all that steam outta me for years afterward


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

127.0.0.1 said:


> I was 144 lbs, pure roadie, and rode/club raced regularly with pros on weekdays in upstate NY, and put in 20,000 miles a year. I made fast progress and won the club rides every third or fifth go, I just could not afford actual racing travel or the time (was in air force at the time) so yeah, superfit, no where to use it except club rides


Holy crap dude, that's elite pro level power to weight... seriously. I would have to imagine you had big time sponsors lining up left and right to sign you. I know a few guys who race on relatively big name national pro teams and they would die to have that sort of power to weight.


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## Mugochap (Nov 12, 2010)

Sidewalk said:


> Ever race mini bikes?


Yeah I raced a Honda NSR, Yamaha YSR and also rode a KAwasaki KX65 motard (bored out to 80cc if I remember correctly). This was back in 04-07 though... haven't been on one in years though. I actually haven't been on a sportbike in 2 years though. Too much of a love for pedal powered bikes now. I'd love to get another sportbike, but something more along the lines of a standard FZ1 or CB1000R... someday.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

CBRsteve said:


> Holy crap dude, that's elite pro level power to weight... seriously. I would have to imagine you had big time sponsors lining up left and right to sign you. I know a few guys who race on relatively big name national pro teams and they would die to have that sort of power to weight.


couldn't do it due to what I was up to in the air force..plattsburgh was
a nuke base and I was constantly pinned to 2 hour response time... I had to be on base within 2 hrs after any alert 'cuz i ran systems critical to recycling return sorties. so that was all I could do for 4 years... stay put....ride or drive somewhere, go ride, come back. so it was free gym, ride, ride hard, gym....repeat, hit club races weekday evenings, hit the TT, hang out in lake placid and that is where I ran into pros (mostly triathletes) and got a lot of sand kicked in my face...just kept at it and killed myself and suddenly one day I was at the front at the finish 'cuz I could sprint nicely

fast but broke, couldn't afford to race anyway. some races here and there when I had weekends off but not really sort out travel nutrition compared to usual routine (chow hall basically), never got enough time to figure that out either...how to travel to a race and eat right to perform. sorted that out way after my quads healed, got a real job, never got back into that shape again...I stomped the 10 mile TT, had 35 mile races nailed, didn't learn how to race longer distances. so yeah power, but distance skills and planning 'not-great'. it is easy as pie to just ride hard when everything is already done for you (meals shelter gyms)

now I am 290watt guy, not 400 watt guy


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

CBRsteve said:


> Holy crap dude, that's elite pro level power to weight... seriously. I would have to imagine you had big time sponsors lining up left and right to sign you. I know a few guys who race on relatively big name national pro teams and they would die to have that sort of power to weight.


Polite way of saying "BS!"

400w FTP at 144 pounds / 65.5 kg would result in 6.1 watts per kg. No way in hell.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

ColinL said:


> Polite way of saying "BS!"
> 
> 400w FTP at 144 pounds / 65.5 kg would result in 6.1 watts per kg. No way in hell.


Ok. those club rides in 1984-1988 in upstate ny really did not occur. I wasn't 144 lbs and able to put out 400 watts average for an hour. I was never 17 years old. I never worked at a nuke base at age 19-22. them 10 mile TT's I nailed didn't happen. my quadriceps were never severed. I don't even ride a bike. I was never broke. go on...

possibly the watts measured on me in the perf lab was incorrect, I was hanging with elite riders but I was not euro pro by any means. maybe 350 was my level ? there were no watts I ran on the bike, this is late 80's ...only perf lab and any power measurement was sitting on a trainer.

whatever

I am a fat slob today and that I can back up with actual science


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

How did you measure 400w in 1984-88?


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

ColinL said:


> How did you measure 400w in 1984-88?


it was measured/estimated for me by butterbars running a little performance lab for pilots I was on a stationary bike setup...I just go with what they told me.
and alternator for load, belt drive to pedals, and calculations to account for friction from the system, and estimated calories burned by heart rate and breathing rate/volume. I went 4 times over 2 years.

so YES lots of room for errors back in the day, this is rough ....I'll stop any 
mention or imagination is was 400 'cuz now yeah that had to be off I was not that good. maybe 360 closer to reality? who knows those days are long gone


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

cyclelicious said:


> Life is too short to ride shitty bikes.


yes....who in the world wants to go to their death bed wondering if it was worth it to ride crap like this, so their kids could spend the inheritance


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

*3 Things I NEVER Scrimp On...*

1) My Family

2) My Health

3) My Passion

The bike envelops the last two, so I buy the BEST I can afford.....life remains good


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

$5000 doesn't even get you a high end bike these days.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> $5000 doesn't even get you a high end bike these days.


It buys the frame if you're lucky.


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> $5000 doesn't even get you a high end bike these days.


Yep. I was gonna say "set it next to a $12,000 bike".


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## TSpice (May 15, 2015)

What I find amusing is that people like to use manufacturer's MSRP as some kind of indicator of quality or their personal skill. 

My bike is like, $7000, so you know. *eyeroll*

Its like buying a hammer or a shovel. Why is there a $10 solid steel hammer, and a $70 solid steel hammer. Its a damn hammer. Maybe after 10,000 swings, the $10 hammer grip will start to show wear, while the $70 will last until 12,000 swings. So a carpenter or contractor? Sure, the value will pay itself off eventually. 99% of the rest of us? You are paying for cosmetics or the thought that it will somehow help you. 

Same thing goes for bikes. A pro on a Wal-Mart bike versus anyone on this forum (myself included) with any bike they want regardless of price, I would put money on the pro. So that simple fact means that we are essentially paying for bells and whistles for the sake of having them. Did I buy a bike I really have no chance in hell on fully utilizing? Yes I did. Why? Because I can. Did I buy it thinking it will help me or somehow make me a better rider? No, I have the money, I wanted it, so I bought it. 

For 99% of people, that is the only true justification that isn't complete BS. The justification of, "because I just wanted it, thats why." Anything else, and you are likely lying to yourself or your spouse to try and make it sound like something you required.

Almost all of us have tried to pull off one of those BS claims, so I am just as guilty of it. "Well, if I get this better $900 rim, it will help me go faster." Marginally, but honestly don't lie, you wanted it because it would make you feel cool. Same goes for just about anything else.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for buying crap I don't need. I have a little over $9,000 worth of bikes in my garage. Just tell it as it is. I had the money, I spent it, I enjoyed it. It didn't help me ride faster at all. I paid for the grin on my face while riding them.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Just depends on your definition of high end I suppose. $5,000 buys a LOT of bike these days in my opinion. As someone else mentioned it this thread, or another one, can't remember, I'd bet that the $5k bike will have 98% of the performance of the $12k one if ridden by the same rider on the same timed course.

As far as justifying my toys, I never have and never will. I say toy because that's exactly what our bikes are for most of us, a leisure time activity, that we got out and have fun with. For those of you that can pay the bills via cycling, that may be different, I don't know. But I do know that I love cycling, and I've been completely enamored with it my second time around (rode years ago, and quit for a while, just didn't appreciate it at the time as I should have). And for me, I'd rather have a few $2k to $5k bikes for different purposes, than one super high end $10k uber bike. I have other toys like my motorcycles that are more expensive than my bicycles and I enjoy them also. It's all about the value that _you _place on that activity, and that will dictate to an extent what it's worth to _you_. But, that's just like my opinion man.


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## richde (Jun 8, 2004)

TSpice said:


> What I find amusing is that people like to use manufacturer's MSRP as some kind of indicator of quality or their personal skill.


Yeah well, it's not just MSRP that gives people an overestimation of themselves.

I've never seen it in person, nor have I seen it on these forums, but I HAVE seen other forms of bike-related superiority complexes.


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## SDMTB'er (Feb 11, 2014)

TSpice said:


> What I find amusing is that people like to use manufacturer's MSRP as some kind of indicator of quality or their personal skill.
> 
> My bike is like, $7000, so you know. *eyeroll*
> 
> ...


So did I. True, there are diminishing returns as you pay more money. But, let's make your metaphor correct. The SAME person on a 35 pound bike from Walmart will get smoked by themselves on a carbon 26 pound 5" trail shredder from a reputable bike builder. Personally, I don't like to be held back by my equipment so I buy the best I can afford.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Jeezzz...

All types of opinions and persuasions. Everyone's opinion seems to be the gospel.

Perhaps this is really far simpler than many make it to be. 

If you have the money, you can afford a nice ride (whatever that is), then buy it.

Bonus if you have the skills and abilities to discern the attributes and qualities of your new ride.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Can't... Now, having $5K worth of bikes ^^ is a different story

-----------------------------------------------------------
-=snifff!!=- What's that you say?


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> Everyone's opinion seems to be the gospel.


For them, it is.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

Ride what "you" want and the
hell with what others think.


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## Bradym77 (Nov 22, 2011)

Take one for a single ride in the woods and you'll understand. Which is why bike companies have demo vans rolling across the country every year.

Which is also why I now own a Pivot Mach 429.


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## MASC1104 (Feb 2, 2015)

deleted


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

John Kuhl said:


> Ride what "you" want and the
> hell with what others think.


Word!


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

We like to acquire things, the shiner the better. It is not particularly edifying but ... it is sort of the way it is.


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## TheDwayyo (Dec 2, 2014)

Buy it for $2k! Makes justifying it (and next year's bike) easy!


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I have one word for you. Sponsorship.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Buddy of mine posted this on Facebook...might help answer this thread: 

'"When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Here was a machine of precision and balance for the convenience of man. And (unlike subsequent inventions for man's convenience) the more he used it, the fitter his body became. Here, for once, was a product of man's brain that was entirely beneficial to those who used it, and of no harm or irritation to others. Progress should have stopped when man invented the bicycle." –Elizabeth West'


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

andrepsz said:


> Buddy of mine posted this on Facebook...might help answer this thread:
> 
> '"When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments. Here was a machine of precision and balance for the convenience of man. And (unlike subsequent inventions for man's convenience) the more he used it, the fitter his body became. Here, for once, was a product of man's brain that was entirely beneficial to those who used it, and of no harm or irritation to others. Progress should have stopped when man invented the bicycle." -Elizabeth West'


I think "grow a pair" is much more on point.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

$5000? ****, I don't feel I have to justify to myself or anyone else if I want to buy a $10,000 bike.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

My Kahones would be in a sling if I spent that much on one bike...

Now 2x bikes is a different story (fyi - I made it to $4350 w/o any static)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Damage: 14' Kona Process 134, 12' Transition Bandit 29er


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## cjsb (Mar 4, 2009)

targnik said:


> My Kahones would be in a sling if I spent that much on one bike...
> 
> Now 2x bikes is a different story (fyi - I made it to $4350 w/o any static)
> 
> ...


There's "justifying" as in "om, what will others think?" and then there is "JUSTIFYING" and we all know who we answer to on the latter--you made out awesome!!!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

If I earned what it takes to make the acquisition, then it's been justified.


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## BeanMan (Jul 6, 2006)

Well...I'm middle aged, just paid off my house, and wanted a great bike.


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## c8stom (May 19, 2015)

People who look at your bike and ask you to justify the purchase are in a word, jealous.

I see this alot in photography too. Some amateur friends and I are fortunate enough to be able to afford top end gear. When we bump into "professional" photographers at events, one or two sometimes ask us why we need the gear we have because we're not doing it for a living like they are. There is also an arrogance about them and they say things implying the capability of the gear is wasted due to our pressumed lack of skill.

Must we all be very skilled at something to buy/use high end equipment? and must we do it for a living ?

Ironically, it's the professionals who usually cannot afford the top gear. It's the hobbyists with well paid day jobs who buy the expensive stuff.


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## kle5701 (Jun 3, 2016)

I just bought a 5k bike with only about 10 rides on it for 3k, which is still alot of money for me. I'm in my 40s and justify it by thinking I want the nicest bike for the latter half of my life.


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

Posted something like this a year or two ago when this thread was previously active.. but it's worth repeating.

People will spend whatever they feel they need to, or can, on hobbies and interests. 

I could sit here all day and list things that are far more expensive than a $5k MTB. Heck, numerous active MTBR forum members have multiple bikes that are $5k-10k, and that's still nothing compared to one guy with a 30 foot boat.

So, perhaps 'justify' is the most important part of this discussion. Not afford.

If you or your spouse think that a $200 Wal-Mart bike is sufficient for the sport of mountainbiking, I can see how it would be quite a mental leap to think that $5,000 is a reasonable expenditure.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

The question is how do you justify a 5k bike if you already have a nice 5k bike. Will the new one make you substantially quicker or able to climb sketchier stuff, probably not


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Flucod said:


> Dood, need many bikes for different riding styles. XC racing, DH racing, Gravel racing, Road racing, Enduro racing, Hucking, Park riding and the bike for the coffee shop!


That would be cool but it's a mission impossible for the married people or even having a girlfriend.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> That would be cool but it's a mission impossible for the married people or even having a girlfriend.


Maybe for you. Definitely not for everyone.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Maybe for you. Definitely not for everyone.


Well please tell me the secret!!!!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

andrepsz said:


> Well please tell me the secret!!!!


If it's important to you, you'll figure it out.


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

natrat said:


> The question is how do you justify a 5k bike if you already have a nice 5k bike. Will the new one make you substantially quicker or able to climb sketchier stuff, probably not


Every 6 months a new bike comes out, and I'm like "this could be the one". I've demoed many bikes that I was really itching to upgrade to, but after a demo, it just didn't seem to blow me away like I was expecting--- so kept on rocking the upgraded '12 frame --- but I am so bored with it now. It's like a first wife.... she does everything just fine, but she ain't learning any new tricks, and her suspension is starting to sag.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

d365 said:


> Every 6 months a new bike comes out, and I'm like "this could be the one". I've demoed many bikes thagt I was really itching to upgrade to, but after a demo, it just didn't seem to blow me away like I was expecting--- so kept on rocking the upgraded '12 frame --- but I am so bored with it now. It's like a first wife.... she does everything just fine, but she ain't learning any new tricks, and her suspension is starting to sag.


its just not gettin' you up anymore, right?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

andrepsz said:


> That would be cool but it's a mission impossible for the married people or even having a girlfriend.


News flash: lots of girls ride bikes too.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> News flash: lots of girls ride bikes too.


Are you a girl? hey lets date...like Flucod said; I'll get the XC racing, DH racing, Gravel racing and the coffee shop bikes.....you'll get the Road racing, Enduro racing, Hucking and Park riding bikes....That's what I call a TRULY HAPPY COUPLE!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

andrepsz said:


> Are you a girl?


Nope, just had my ass kicked by plenty of them on bikes.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> If it's important to you, you'll figure it out.


He tells Porkies!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Damage: 14' Kona Process 134, 12' Transition Bandit 29er


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

how? it wasnt easy.

there might have been some embellishing. and flat out lies.

with the proper spin, you can sound downright money smart.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

andrepsz said:


> That would be cool but it's a mission impossible for the married people or even having a girlfriend.


I ride the same bike everywhere off road, but my wife has multiple bikes. It makes her feel bad for me and I can parlay that into more riding time and I really like my "do everything bike" so it is win win. Plus once all this tire size and travel options things settle down, I can make a play for a new bike on account of the fact that I have been riding this ol' rigid 9spd bike for so long.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Nope, just had my ass kicked by plenty of them on bikes.


There is no shame in getting "chicked". Some of the fastest cyclist I know are of the female persuasion.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

A young girl (mid/late teens) in tent next to ours on Saturday (8hr team enduro) was 2mins quicker per lap than our tent full of old farts!!

-----------------------------------------------------------
Damage: 14' Kona Process 134, 12' Transition Bandit 29er


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

andrepsz said:


> That would be cool but it's a mission impossible for the married people or even having a girlfriend.


As mcs said, not for everyone. My wife and I both ride very nice mtbs and our road bikes are decent.

Riding is what we do and what we spend our money on.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

andrepsz said:


> Well please tell me the secret!!!!


Priorities and budgeting.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

My wife competes with me on the coolest bike stuff. She drops some Change on on bike stuff. Her bike is > $4000 and she enjoys nice shorts and premium jerseys. 

She spends her own $$ on her bike stuff.

What's to justify?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I'd justify it by riding it.


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## JACKL (Sep 18, 2011)

There are 3 Wal-mart / Target bikes in my garage (for wife and 2 daughters). My mountain bike is the cheapest per mile by a looooong way. I seriously doubt any of the other bikes in our garage have broken 100 miles.

The average person doesn't have any clue to the pounding a mountain bike takes, especially over time when you ride multiple times per week.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> I'd justify it by riding it.


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## aborgman (Apr 18, 2016)

Harold said:


> Priorities and budgeting.


...and having a job that pays well. As long as you have some disposable income, you can get there with priorities and budgeting.

...but then I ride a $500 mountain bike.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

tiretracks said:


> There is no shame in getting "chicked". Some of the fastest cyclist I know are of the female persuasion.


No doubt. We've got no shortage of strong female riders in my neck of the woods.

My friend Karen killing it, as usual:


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## Strafer (Jun 7, 2004)

rockcrusher said:


> Plus once all this tire size and travel options things settle down...


That's never going to happen, they will come up with something new constantly if they want to stay in business.


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## Krish (Oct 16, 2013)




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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

The best way to justify a $5000 bike is by not
getting the $8000 bike.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ That puts it into perspective.


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## uncaged (May 14, 2016)

Speaking from age, logic, and pure experience look at it like this. If you really don't spend much money on anything else, you ride almost all the time, you see no future of you quitting, AND most importantly you are doing fine financially with money put away, then by all means do it. 

However, I also found in general that the more costly versions of things aren't always the better option and a lot of the times you don't need to spend 1000's to get something good. A few examples past the realm of bikes:
1. Guitars. You can get a really good guitar under a $1000. 
2. Guns. I seen "Olympic" competitors that carry, compete, and use guns very old and worth a couple of hundred dollars.
I have more but you get the point.

Then there is bikes; as I tried this bike and the other, unless you are competing professionally I personally wouldn't do it. I would rather get a bike for 1 to 2k and save the extra cash for some fun extras like a cooler helmet, and other misc items.

But that is just me. I am not one to tell you what to do let alone what to do with your money.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

John Kuhl said:


> The best way to justify a $5000 bike is by not
> getting the $8000 bike.


Lol no kidding! Hey honey is not a $10k s works


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## ColinL (Feb 9, 2012)

uncaged said:


> However, I also found in general that the more costly versions of things aren't always the better option and a lot of the times you don't need to spend 1000's to get something good.
> ...
> Then there is bikes; as I tried this bike and the other, unless you are competing professionally I personally wouldn't do it. I would rather get a bike for 1 to 2k and save the extra cash for some fun extras like a cooler helmet, and other misc items.
> 
> But that is just me. I am not one to tell you what to do let alone what to do with your money.


There certainly is both diminishing returns, as well as some level of 'good enough' which can be subjective.

I think that $2,000 is too low of a floor, but for many it is good enough. I'm assuming new. If you buy used, certainly, $2k is a good budget for a good bike if you know what you're shopping for and all is in working order.


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## uncaged (May 14, 2016)

ColinL said:


> There certainly is both diminishing returns, as well as some level of 'good enough' which can be subjective.
> 
> I think that $2,000 is too low of a floor, but for many it is good enough. I'm assuming new. If you buy used, certainly, $2k is a good budget for a good bike if you know what you're shopping for and all is in working order.


True. I have seen people taking the extremes in terms of parts for their bikes, some are taking in extremes as how they are using the bikes, and then there is the other side which is not too extreme. However, I find it hard believe something like a Trek Fuel EX5 won't suffice for even the person that would go to Vermont to do trails. I think at times people convince themselves they need more than they really do.

Again I am not about to tell people how to do things and that includes how they spend their money. But I see this time and time again. Case and point: I am a member of an acoustic guitar forum. I see people trying to convince themselves they need a $8000 acoustic guitar when the one for $1k and less plays just as good, and they are NOT even a professional player.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

A $5000 bike turns into a $3000 bike the instant you roll it out of the shop.
Drops down to a $2500 bike as soon as it touches dirt. 

MSRP is for suckas!!!


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> A $5000 bike turns into a $3000 bike the instant you roll it out of the shop.
> Drops down to a $2500 bike as soon as it touches dirt.
> 
> MSRP is for suckas!!!


Not even close. Resale is much better than that fortunately.


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## andrepsz (Jan 28, 2013)

Silentfoe said:


> Not even close. Resale is much better than that fortunately.


I agree with Slapheadmofo.

The opposite process works well if you know how to sell.

Step 1) Buy a used $1500 bike, sell each part individually = you make $1800/$2000.

Step 2) Buy a used $2k bike, sell each part = you make $2300/$2500

.....you get the drill...

then if you get addicted to this, some day you can buy a house.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Do a quick search and find me any used bike that loses 2k from 5k the moment you roll it out the door. I'll wait. This may help www.bicyclebluebook.com


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## juan_speeder (May 11, 2008)

I justify it easily. $5k or $10k to ride Formula 1 level kit that keeps me fit, entertained, and sane?

I'll take 3, please. 

I guess I could've spent that money on a set of golf clubs...


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## dvXin (Jun 16, 2016)

Silentfoe said:


> Not even close. Resale is much better than that fortunately.


Might be a huge exaggeration for some brands (ex. Yeti), but this does happen with a good # of other brands. Not having a warranty is one reason. How likely/generously they're discounted is another reason. The availability of some trade-in program, that offers some of an used bike's value towards a new bike, is another reason. Lacking support from a shop, at least one that offers customer appreciation benefits for bikes purchased from them, is another.

For example, Trek has a pretty generous pro deal that they offer to many non-pro racers and employees, and some Trek shops like Jax in SoCal have trade-in programs. Their used prices seem to be relative to the discounted prices they paid or are offered in trade-in. It's unfortunate to those that pay MSRP to have their bike value drop so much, but resale value is probably not something they have on their mind in the near future if they're actually buying new. That said, honing senses to find deals on the used market is a learning experience, where the biggest lessons come from costly mistakes. Buyers shopping used take on a lot more risk.

For me, to justify a $5000 bike, I just need to be looking for a certain kind of bike, one that's better than my current ride. If the only bikes that are truly better than mine, enough to warrant an upgrade, have prices starting in the $5000 range, then it's either save up or give up, always waiting for the right deal to pop up later. Though, it's easier to justify a $5000 bike if I only paid $3000 for it.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

It's a huge exaggeration for all brands. It's a big myth. Bikes depreciate, yes. But not nearly as much as people think.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

Silentfoe said:


> It's a huge exaggeration for all brands. It's a big myth. Bikes depreciate, yes. But not nearly as much as people think.


I agree, although I have bought several used bikes over the years. Often people think they are getting a great deal, then end up having to replace or service components due to wear and tear, or the previous owner downright thrashing the thing. Those costs never seem to be mentioned when bragging about the great deal they got though....

There are definitely good deals out there on lightly used bikes if you are patient and not looking for a specific model. However, there is something nice about being the original owner and knowing the entire history of the bike. I guess that means more to some than others. I don't understand why anyone else would care why someone wants to lay out cash for a new bike 

There are plenty of deals out there on new bikes too, especially if you don't mind a model that's a year or two old.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Silentfoe said:


> It's a huge exaggeration for all brands. It's a big myth. Bikes depreciate, yes. But not nearly as much as people think.


Maybe a little exaggeration in my earlier numbers, but not that much.
40+% the first year isn't uncommon. Not saying there aren't going to be people asking a lot more for their stuff than what it's worth, but if you do a little searching, there's no reason to spend anywhere near MSRP for a practically new bike.

One of countless examples:

2015 Trek Remedy 9.9 27.5 | Components and Reviews

2015 Trek Fuel EX 9 9 27 5 Size 17 5 | eBay


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## uncaged (May 14, 2016)

juan_speeder said:


> I justify it easily. $5k or $10k to ride Formula 1 level kit that keeps me fit, entertained, and sane?
> 
> I'll take 3, please.
> 
> I guess I could've spent that money on a set of golf clubs...


You can get fit and have fun on a 1.5 to 2k bike as well.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

uncaged said:


> You can get fit and have fun on a 1.5 to 2k bike as well.


You can also get fit and have fun on a $50 thrift store special.


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## uncaged (May 14, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> You can also get fit and have fun on a $50 thrift store special.


So knowing that, where is the justification for that insane price for something a person does not do competitively and makes money off it?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

uncaged said:


> So knowing that, where is the justification for that insane price for something a person does not do competitively and makes money off it?


Some people appreciate nice things, justification is not necessary.


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## uncaged (May 14, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> Some people appreciate nice things, no justification is necessary.


And there is the answer. I just would appreciate people to cut past the bull and say what it's really about. Hey yeah it has this, yeah it has that, yeah and yeah and yeah when the actual answer is: I want it because it's nice and I can afford it.

I have done it with other things.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

The way i see it , ived worked my a•• off for alot of years . Kids are grown and have there own kids , so why not spend their inheritance on something i like and i have a 10 k bike ..let them fight over it when im gone 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

uncaged said:


> So knowing that, where is the justification for that insane price for something a person does not do competitively and makes money off it?


Fun. There is really no denial that you absolutely, positively will have more fun on a bike that is more expensive.

"Expensive" gives you a better fork, better shock, better brakes, better drivetrain, better hoops and tires, carbon, droppers, etc. All of this ultimately gives you a better riding experience. Its a zen-like state that will justify it for you.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*This Explains It All...*


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Cleared2land said:


> View attachment 1078297


I love it .. So true ......


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Thustlewhumber said:


> Fun. There is really no denial that you absolutely, positively will have more fun on a bike that is more expensive.
> 
> "Expensive" gives you a better fork, better shock, better brakes, better drivetrain, better hoops and tires, carbon, droppers, etc. All of this ultimately gives you a better riding experience. Its a zen-like state that will justify it for you.


Meh...my funnest bike right now is probably worth less than the derailleur on my newest bike. I've managed to have decades of fun without most of the things on your list.

A lot of people seem to just like to spend for spending's own sake.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Meh...my funnest bike right now is probably worth less than the derailleur on my newest bike. I've managed to have decades of fun without most of the things on your list.
> 
> A lot of people seem to just like to spend for spending's own sake.


Guilty as charged. Whenever I feel lousy, I go bike part/camping/hiking shopping.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

slapheadmofo said:


> Meh...my funnest bike right now is probably worth less than the derailleur on my newest bike. I've managed to have decades of fun without most of the things on your list.
> 
> A lot of people seem to just like to spend for spending's own sake.


_Affluenza_ is a good read along those lines.

That being said, nothing wrong with owning a new bike. Buying something new and maintaining it for a long time can make more economical sense than buying used, pumping parts into a bike, then selling it after a few years for minimal amounts of money (or just letting it collect dust).


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

bigkat273 said:


> Guilty as charged. Whenever I feel lousy, I go bike part/camping/hiking shopping.


That is one of the symptoms of affluenza.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

BumpityBump said:


> That is one of the symptoms of affluenza.


Except I'm not a spoiled, rich out of control teen who killed people while dui. I still can't believe the defense attorney had the balls to use that in trial.


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## BumpityBump (Mar 9, 2008)

bigkat273 said:


> Except I'm not a spoiled, rich out of control teen who killed people while dui. I still can't believe the defense attorney had the balls to use that in trial.


That was a misappropriation of the term affluenza. Read the book, that case has nothing to do with the origin of the term.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

bigkat273 said:


> Guilty as charged. Whenever I feel lousy, I go bike part/camping/hiking shopping.


Yeah, a lot of people tend to consider gear worship to be part of the sport, when it has really nothing to do with actually riding at all.


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## bigkat273 (Jan 16, 2008)

Ordered Affluenza from my library...(see I don't have to buy everything lol) Looks like a good read. I am constantly reading about the psychology of low income students and families for work so it should be interesting to see how this ties relates or doesn't. 

Also I wouldn't go as far as calling it gear worship. I am lucky enough to put enough miles/wear on my equipment to require replacements/service but I hardly have a di2 equipped carbon wunderbike.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

I think it's more difficult and takes more experience to put together a new $3-4k hardtail that performs at the level I want on my trails than it would be to buy a more expensive bike discounted to $5k with that bumped up with the necessary swaps another $2k. I couldn't logically do it just because the money is available. The more expensive build would have parts that don't contribute at my level of riding and in some cases are too oriented toward specific kinds of racing and would be a step backwards.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

The thread really asks the wrong question. $5k is not the same for everyone. 

The question really is: Is your $5k bike paid for, or are you making payments.? 

How do you justify a bike you can't afford? 


Sent via Jedi mind trick.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Boomchakabowwow said:


> The thread really asks the wrong question. $5k is not the same for everyone.
> 
> The question really is: Is your $5k bike paid for, or are you making payments.?
> 
> ...


First off my $10000 bike was paid cash , but you opened a whole new reality check , it doesnt just apply to bikes , that list can be long for some people , cars , houses , pools the list goes on . We may want to keep this thread on track and personal finances are nobodies business !

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

This has been hashed out in other threads, but bike prices have increased significantly in past 10 years. My build this year $2500, Salsa spearfish, brand new frame, all new parts including xt 1x11, dropper post, except I already had the stan's crest wheels. Same bike stock >4k. Last year wanted an "am" hardtail. Niner Ros9 was 4K, so I built a Canfield Yelli for <$2500, all new, nice parts, xt, revelation, dropper, stan's, etc. Unlike like most here I didn't justify it, I found it much cheaper to build my own, you just have to be patient and know where to shop, and have a fairly expensive set of tools lol.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

blacksheep5150 said:


> First off my $10000 bike was paid cash , but you opened a whole new reality check , it doesnt just apply to bikes , that list can be long for some people , cars , houses , pools the list goes on . We may want to keep this thread on track and personal finances are nobodies business !
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That's just it. A billionaire can justify a $5000 bike easily.

Sent via Jedi mind trick.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Boomchakabowwow said:


> That's just it. A billionaire can justify a $5000 bike easily.
> 
> Sent via Jedi mind trick.


I would say in my case , someone who worked hard and saved for a rainy day . The real reason was as i was grossly over weight . I managed to drop 50 pounds and was still at 318 . So i wanted to feel better . Started juicing vegatables and riding , managed to get to 255 and have stayed at that weight ...so here is your billion dollar queston ( what value do you put on your health ? ) trust me i had to answer to my wife on the cabbage ive dropped on bikes and i always go back to that statement ..what value is my health worth ! Could it have been achieved with a walmart bike , absolutely ,but its only money and you cant take it , so enjoy the fruits of ones labor

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

blacksheep5150 said:


> I would say in my case , someone who worked hard and saved for a rainy day . The real reason was as i was grossly over weight . I managed to drop 50 pounds and was still at 318 . So i wanted to feel better . Started juicing vegatables and riding , managed to get to 255 and have stayed at that weight ...so here is your billion dollar queston ( what value do you put on your health ? ) trust me i had to answer to my wife on the cabbage ive dropped on bikes and i always go back to that statement ..what value is my health worth ! Could it have been achieved with a walmart bike , absolutely ,but its only money and you cant take it , so enjoy the fruits of ones labor
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


See? You can't put a price on that!

Me too! I dropped a lot of weight. My wife bought me my bike. She wasn't working, but the green light to buy was huge.

Good job!

Sent via Jedi mind trick.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

+1 for the losing weight deal... got a HT 29 to start the journey... weight started fallin off... plateaued, set new goal w/ a nice AM steed as the cheese (low fat o/c)... made weight & started getting into events... bought a FS 29er...

I've spent 5K on 3 bikes... 2 of which I still have (bye, bye HT)... probably spent another 1.5K on parts...

If I were into boats or cars it'd be more...

PS - dropped 30lbs

-----------------------------------------------------------
Damage: 14' Kona Process 134, 12' Transition Bandit 29er


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Boomchakabowwow said:


> The thread really asks the wrong question. $5k is not the same for everyone.
> 
> The question really is: Is your $5k bike paid for, or are you making payments.?
> 
> How do you justify a bike you can't afford?


If someone can't afford a $5000 bike, then it baffles me that someone dig the hole deeper and significantly raise that cost by financing it.

The misplaced enthusiasm of instant gratification seems to appeal to many. With the exception of a home and perhaps a vehicle, If I can't afford it; I don't buy it.

I work and save for my toys.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

Cleared2land said:


> If someone can't afford a $5000 bike, then it baffles me that someone dig the hole deeper and significantly raise that cost by financing it.
> 
> The misplaced enthusiasm of instant gratification seems to appeal to many. With the exception of a home and perhaps a vehicle, If I can't afford it; I don't buy it.
> 
> I work and save for my toys.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

blacksheep5150 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


:thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jun 26, 2016)

Try riding a downhill course on a Wally World bike, and your hospital bills will make $5K look like pocket change.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Forster said:


> Try riding a downhill course on a Wally World bike, and your hospital bills will make $5K look like pocket change.


On the other hand, take your $8000 plastic 2-wheeled midlife crisis machine to the local jumps and prepare to be made to look like an ass by snot-nosed little kids on rusty beaters with no brakes.

And keep in mind that there's no shortage of $2000 bikes out there that would get down a mountain just fine.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

i know a guy that still lives at home. i think he is 38 years old. 

makes decent money and bought a multi thousand $pecialized. rides the heck out of that thing. nobody gives him crap because he is usually way ahead of us. we do joke that he is powered by "hot-pockets" (that his mom warms for him).

i would have bought a cheaper bike and use the rest for a 1st/last month rent type of thing.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> On the other hand, take your $8000 plastic 2-wheeled midlife crisis machine to the local jumps and prepare to be made to look like an ass by snot-nosed little kids on rusty beaters with no brakes.


Mid-life crisis man with $8000 bike is beyond caring what snot-nosed kids think.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> Mid-life crisis man with $8000 bike is beyond caring what snot-nosed kids think.


It's not about what they think, it's about the fact that they're typically riding a lot harder, better, and enjoying themselves more than somebody who feels they the only way they can have fun on a bike is to spend a ****-ton of money.

Mid-life crisis man can stand to learn a lot from them.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

Nat said:


> Mid-life crisis man with $8000 bike is beyond caring what snot-nosed kids think.


LOL!

one time i was riding above Walnut Creek CA. i was following a bunch of kids. they had awesome bikes. i was riding my 1998 specialized. (V brakes screaming embarrassingly every time i used them)..i was hanging with those kids up a big climb. they kept yelling to each other things like, "hurry, we cant drop this old man"...old man this; old man that..finally i screamed up to them, "stop it with the old man BS..i bet i'm the only one here that my momma didnt buy me my bike"..silence..i hear one kid laugh and say, "okay he got us good"/

we crested that hill, and they left me like i was standing still. i didnt want to break my hip..so i got on those V-brakes.


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## luvdabeach2001 (Nov 11, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> It's not about what they think, it's about the fact that they're typically riding a lot harder, better, and enjoying themselves more than somebody who feels they the only way they can have fun on a bike is to spend a ****-ton of money.
> 
> Mid-life crisis man can stand to learn a lot from them.


Riding better than me? Most likely.
Riding harder than me? Very subjective but doubtful.
Enjoying themselves more than me? No ****ing way. 

Enjoyment is why I ride.
Note: no $8k bike here but even with one the above would still stand for me.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> It's not about what they think, it's about the fact that they're typically riding a lot harder, better, and enjoying themselves more than somebody who feels they the only way they can have fun on a bike is to spend a ****-ton of money.
> 
> Mid-life crisis man can stand to learn a lot from them.


Mid-life crisis man is unaffected. Mid-life crisis man is financially secure enough that $8000 is only a ****-pound.

Snot-nosed kids should ask about doing an internship.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nat said:


> Mid-life crisis man is unaffected. Mid-life crisis man is financially secure enough that $8000 is only a ****-pound.
> 
> Snot-nosed kids should ask about doing an internship.


Mid-life crisis man spends too much time talking/thinking about money/possessions.

Mid-life crisis man is most likely unable to get overpriced carbon wheels very far from ground.

No effin' way is mid-life crisis man throwing a 360 on plastic bike; too much time counting beans.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

slapheadmofo said:


> Mid-life crisis man spends too much time talking/thinking about money/possessions.
> 
> Mid-life crisis man is most likely unable to get overpriced carbon wheels very far from ground.
> 
> No effin' way is mid-life crisis man throwing a 360 on plastic bike; too much time counting beans.


Mid-life crisis man is still unaffected by snot-nosed kids.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ok Nat...you get my vote.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

slapheadmofo said:


> Mid-life crisis man spends too much time talking/thinking about money/possessions.
> 
> Mid-life crisis man is most likely unable to get overpriced carbon wheels very far from ground.
> 
> No effin' way is mid-life crisis man throwing a 360 on plastic bike; too much time counting beans.


You forgot to mention that mid-life crisis man can probably hire someone to do everything for him that you mention ......I guess I am mid-life crisis man my whole life ! 
Never been one to settle for mediocre , always found away to apply myself and get better than average ..at what ever I apply myself to...kinda interesting to kick mid-life crisis man in the nuts for enjoying the fruits of his labor


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

blacksheep5150 said:


> Never been one to settle for mediocre


You got it on that one.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I don't mean to come across that I'm of the opinion that you shouldn't spend your money on what you damn well please, or that there's anything wrong with the "mid life crisis" scene. I'm neck deep in it myself, trust me. 

I just don't buy into that idea that someone is having more fun than someone else based on how much dough they spent. Or can ride better. Been shown wrong too many times to count.


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Some of the analogies in this thread are so far off it isn't even funny, but at least it's entertaining though. I wonder if exotic car forums are full of how do you justify a $250,000 car threads?


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

HPIguy said:


> Some of the analogies in this thread are so far off it isn't even funny, but at least it's entertaining though. I wonder if exotic car forums are full of how do you justify a $250,000 car threads?


For me nothing more than entertainment , ive never been one to care to much about what other people think ..its been fun stirring the pot

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Bakudan (May 19, 2011)

blacksheep5150 said:


> You forgot to mention that mid-life crisis man can probably hire someone to do everything for him that you mention ......I guess I am mid-life crisis man my whole life !
> Never been one to settle for mediocre , always found away to apply myself and get better than average ..at what ever I apply myself to...kinda interesting to kick mid-life crisis man in the nuts for enjoying the fruits of his labor


Just poor people complaining about sour grapes.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Harry Mackenzie said:


> Just poor people complaining about sour grapes.


Just pompous chumps believing that they have somehow shopped their way to superiority.


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## Bakudan (May 19, 2011)

slapheadmofo said:


> Just pompous chumps believing that they have somehow shopped their way to superiority.


You're projecting.


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## Krause (Jun 21, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Just pompous chumps believing that they have somehow shopped their way to superiority.


No one said anything about acting superior because of those bikes, where did that come from?


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

To some, 5K is not that much $. Me, I buy my rides for 2-3K, they work just fine. Drive a beater corolla and paid off my 15 year mortgage ahead of schedule. Oh, it helps to marry a wicked smart engineer too. Can't buy good health, the most $ in the world won't work on bad health.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

For some, the acquisition of material things can project a symbol of status and superiority. For others, it's nothing more than an ability or desire to afford nicer things. 

I do not believe that one can make the broad statement that buying expensive toys is associated with any form of elitist or pretentious activity that indicates superiority over anyone else. 

For me personally, I could care less if anyone knew anything about my ride other than it has two wheels and is recognized as a common bicycle.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Krause said:


> No one said anything about acting superior because of those bikes, where did that come from?


From here:



Harry Mackenzie said:


> Just poor people complaining about sour grapes.


Sounds to me like an assumption that not believing spending $5k on a bicycle is worthwhile is being conflated with 1) not being able to and 2) being envious of someone that did choose to.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm responsible for the Santa Cruz Pricing thread. I have a hard time filtering through my brain a 5k bike, but I will post an inflation sheet on the price of things 4 years ago compared to now....hold a sec

inflation is taking us by storm....it's very bad



My point is....how viable will these companies remain with low prices. I want a Santa Cruz Hightower but it's just too much.


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2016)

leeboh said:


> To some, 5K is not that much $. Me, I buy my rides for 2-3K, they work just fine. Drive a beater corolla and paid off my 15 year mortgage ahead of schedule. Oh, it helps to marry a wicked smart engineer too. Can't buy good health, the most $ in the world won't work on bad health.


 True. I think (going back to the comments about mid-lifers in crisis - loosely inferred) if you compare the cost of the average mid-life crisis purchase, or more importantly the hit when you drive your new car/truck/motorcycle off the lot $5K isn't that much. I'm in the same boat with bikes. My most expensive is the recumbent I bought this year (due to shoulder issues) but with 3K/year of commuting, it will pay for itself in a year and a half.


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## Krause (Jun 21, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> From here:
> 
> Sounds to me like an assumption that not believing spending $5k on a bicycle is worthwhile is being conflated with 1) not being able to and 2) being envious of someone that did choose to.


Not really, its an accurate description of someone who will give someone a hard time just because they see them on an expensive bike.

What other reason could there be for someone to hassle someone/talk behind their back about a purchase that has nothing to do with them?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

A little off topic, but amusing...

One day a few weeks ago a group of guys that I work with are having a beer after work and the topic of my "obsession" with bicycles find its way into the conversation. One of the guys comments on my ride and what it costs. The other guy blew beer outta his nose and laughed obnoxiously at the absurdity of dropping anything over $1,000 on a bicycle. Calmly, I made reference to the fact that not only did my bike come complete with health benefits, but it's cost was totally eclipsed by his newly purchased 2016 Harley Davidson CVO Limited that he dropped MORE than $40,000 on and had to secure a second mortgage on his home to buy. A SECOND mortgage to buy a MOTORCYCLE!? WTF? His payment was equivalent to a small house payment and this didn't even begin to factor in the cost of insurance. He got real quite after that disclosure.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Cleared2land said:


> A little off topic, but amusing...
> 
> One day a few weeks ago a group of guys that I work with are having a beer after work and the topic of my "obsession" with bicycles find its way into the conversation. One of the guys comments on my ride and what it costs. The other guy blew beer outta his nose and laughed obnoxiously at the absurdity of dropping anything over $1,000 on a bicycle. Calmly, I made reference to the fact that not only did my bike come complete with health benefits, but it's cost was totally eclipsed by his newly purchased 2016 Harley Davidson CVO Limited that he dropped MORE than $40,000 on and had to secure a second mortgage on his home to buy. A SECOND mortgage to buy a MOTORCYCLE!? WTF? His payment was equivalent to a small house payment and this didn't even begin to factor in the cost of insurance. He got real quite after that disclosure.


LOL, nice one.

On a sports car forum of which I'm a member guys will spend over $4000 per wheel without blinking. Doesn't include tires.

No, they don't drive professionally.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Krause said:


> Not really, its an accurate description of someone who will give someone a hard time just because they see them on an expensive bike.


Oh? Where did that happen?

I don't think I've seen anyone get a hard time just for having an expensive bike.

Now, thinking their expensive bike makes them more of a rider in any way than someone on a less expensive bike, well, that attitude deserves a hard time. It's also something that happens pretty damn regularly. Gear snobs/worshippers are pretty common, particularly on sites like this one. Lots of people out there think they can buy skills.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Afun said:


> I'm responsible for the Santa Cruz Pricing thread. I have a hard time filtering through my brain a 5k bike, but I will post an inflation sheet on the price of things 4 years ago compared to now....hold a sec
> 
> inflation is taking us by storm....it's very bad


I dunno, you could easily drop $5k on a bike back in the 15-20 years ago too (and get a lot less for your money than you do now). I had a frame in 98 that went for over $2k by itself; my first nice DH bike ~2001 went for well over $6k. Expensive crap has been around forever.


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## Bakudan (May 19, 2011)

Nat said:


> LOL, nice one.
> 
> On a sports car forum of which I'm a member guys will spend over $4000 per wheel without blinking. Doesn't include tires.
> 
> No, they don't drive professionally.


This drives me crazy. The car communities I frequent for the car I own have a lot of young guys with fancy Japaneses wheels that cost $2000+. Then they want to spend less than $1000 for a suspension that will ruin the cars handling and less than $400 for tires that further ruin the handling completely ruining the cars sporting potential. Meanwhile I've been ragged on for just mounting really nice tires on crusty stock wheels for track days.


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## Afun (Feb 5, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> I dunno, you could easily drop $5k on a bike back in the 15-20 years ago too (and get a lot less for your money than you do now). I had a frame in 98 that went for over $2k by itself; my first nice DH bike ~2001 went for well over $6k. Expensive crap has been around forever.


True....but their seems to be an acceleration in costs for everything


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

leeboh said:


> . Can't buy good health, the most $ in the world won't work on bad health.


And that my friend is what the whole mtb obsession for me is about ......


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Harry Mackenzie said:


> This drives me crazy. The car communities I frequent for the car I own have a lot of young guys with fancy Japaneses wheels that cost $2000+. Then they want to spend less than $1000 for a suspension that will ruin the cars handling and less than $400 for tires that further ruin the handling completely ruining the cars sporting potential. Meanwhile I've been ragged on for just mounting really nice tires on crusty stock wheels for track days.


I'm kind of over the sports car thing but I was mostly on German car forums. I didn't really see that kind of frugality there, but yes I can see how it could be aggravating.


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## GhostOfForumsPast (Feb 16, 2016)

Harry Mackenzie said:


> This drives me crazy. The car communities I frequent for the car I own have a lot of young guys with fancy Japaneses wheels that cost $2000+. Then they want to spend less than $1000 for a suspension that will ruin the cars handling and less than $400 for tires that further ruin the handling completely ruining the cars sporting potential. Meanwhile I've been ragged on for just mounting really nice tires on crusty stock wheels for track days.


There will always be ricers out there. Or sauerkrauters. The ethnicity/car origin doesn't preclude someone from being a poseur.

It's best just to let them live in their false world of delusions until they actually have to compete on the track.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cleared2land said:


> A little off topic, but amusing...
> 
> One day a few weeks ago a group of guys that I work with are having a beer after work and the topic of my "obsession" with bicycles find its way into the conversation. One of the guys comments on my ride and what it costs. The other guy blew beer outta his nose and laughed obnoxiously at the absurdity of dropping anything over $1,000 on a bicycle. Calmly, I made reference to the fact that not only did my bike come complete with health benefits, but it's cost was totally eclipsed by his newly purchased 2016 Harley Davidson CVO Limited that he dropped MORE than $40,000 on and had to secure a second mortgage on his home to buy. A SECOND mortgage to buy a MOTORCYCLE!? WTF? His payment was equivalent to a small house payment and this didn't even begin to factor in the cost of insurance. He got real quite after that disclosure.


Some have no concept of quality of life per dollar spent. Your $5K to $10K bike far surpasses his $40K. in every way for a healthy adventurous lifestyle. Did that make sense?

You had me curious. This is what $40K gets you in a motorcycle. Not the wisest purchase in my opinion. Unless you have that kind of coin laying around collecting dust.

2016 CVO Limited | Harley-Davidson USA


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

Anyone that pays $40k for a Hardly Ableson isn't thinking clearly anyway.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

HPIguy said:


> Anyone that pays $40k for a Hardly Ableson isn't thinking clearly anyway.


Plus you'll need an additional $5k to buy Harley branded jacket, Bandana, helmet, Tshirt, jeans, boots, wallet, watch band, socks, bedsheets, wife beaters, sunglasses, backwards worn cap, ..................etc

Sent via Jedi mind trick.


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## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

I was a fat child. My mom told me if she knew a mtn bike would have made me put down the hot-pocket and Nintendo, she would have spent any money.  


Sent via Jedi mind trick.


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## nachomc (Apr 26, 2006)

I justify it because my kid is fed and clothed, my bills are paid, my wife is happy, and cycling is my only hobby. I don't ski, or have a boat, or a bunch of guns, or a motorcycle, or cars I don't need. I wear $5 shirts from Costco (they fit well which is nice), I buy most of my clothes at the outlet stores to save. I buy clothes maybe a twice a year; I haven't bought casual shoes for at least a year if not more. Meanwhile, I ride 2-3 times per week, and use my bike to go on amazing adventures. It takes me deep in to the forest with my best friends. Last year we did Mountain Bike Oregon, which was an amazing event with my best friends, etc. My friends and I are the healthiest guys in our respective age groups - a lot of the dads I see at my kids school, or my other friends that are my age, have big beer bellies, generally don't feel well, have trouble playing with their kids. Not me, and not my buddies who ride. Totally worth it.


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## jonshonda (Apr 21, 2011)

I don't "have" to spend $5k on a bike, but as a bigger rider it will save me a lot of headaches if I do. I was trying to get a buddy into riding and found him a killer deal at the lbs. Bike wasn't going to last @ the price, and his wife got pretty mad that I would suggest a $1k bike for him.

I understood, but laughed to myself as a sat next to my fat bike w/ Nexties and Onyx hubs. She would blow a gasket if she knew what I spent on that wheelset, and she makes prob double what I do. 

I buy bike parts with the following agenda:

1) Quality
2) Durability
3) Performance
4) Looks
5) Costs
6) Will the wife still [email protected] me after I buy this


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## HPIguy (Sep 16, 2014)

jonshonda said:


> i buy bike parts with the following agenda:
> 
> 6) will the wife still [email protected] me after i buy this


winner!


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

jonshonda said:


> 6) Will the wife still [email protected] me after I buy this


Which means the wife wears the pants in the family.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Which means the wife wears the pants in the family.


Which means you are not married if you think this.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

Afun said:


> I'm responsible for the Santa Cruz Pricing thread. I have a hard time filtering through my brain a 5k bike, but I will post an inflation sheet on the price of things 4 years ago compared to now....hold a sec
> 
> inflation is taking us by storm....it's very bad
> 
> ...


actually inflation has nothing to do with it. All those went up because of transportation cost. Especially when diesel was over $4 a gallon. Inflation has actually been a non factor.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2016)

I've posted this before, but the formula for married cyclists is: N+1 where N=D-1 and D=the divorce you got because your N was one too many.


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## ScottR1 (May 12, 2006)

Interesting thread, from my point of view. Last month, for the first time in over 40 years of driving, I bought a car that cost more than any of my bikes. Still not sure if it was worth it.


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> I dunno, you could easily drop $5k on a bike back in the 15-20 years ago too (and get a lot less for your money than you do now). I had a frame in 98 that went for over $2k by itself; my first nice DH bike ~2001 went for well over $6k. Expensive crap has been around forever.


The angry singlespeeder had a similar argument, but when looking at an average bike that average Joe would buy, this was my response:

You're way off, here's a real comparison of bikes normal people actually ride just in the past 7 years. All xt/lx bits, similiar suspension, almost double in price from 2008-2015.
2008 Trance x1: msrp $2,300-$2400

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/mountain/1288/29374/#features

2008 Giant Trance X1 - BikePedia

2010 Trance x2: msrp $2,725

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/trance.x2/3897/37061/#features

2012 Trance x1: msrp $3,150

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/trance.x1/9034/48899/#specifications

2015 Trance x1: msrp $4,050

http://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/trance.27.5.1/18763/76209/#specifications

Reply


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

tim208 said:


> Which means you are not married if you think this.


Well, that's obviously not true with every married couple. I hear Kevin Harvicks wife wears the pants too. Kevin's kind of a *****.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Cleared2land said:


> A little off topic, but amusing...
> 
> One day a few weeks ago a group of guys that I work with are having a beer after work and the topic of my "obsession" with bicycles find its way into the conversation. One of the guys comments on my ride and what it costs. The other guy blew beer outta his nose and laughed obnoxiously at the absurdity of dropping anything over $1,000 on a bicycle. Calmly, I made reference to the fact that not only did my bike come complete with health benefits, but it's cost was totally eclipsed by his newly purchased 2016 Harley Davidson CVO Limited that he dropped MORE than $40,000 on and had to secure a second mortgage on his home to buy. A SECOND mortgage to buy a MOTORCYCLE!? WTF? His payment was equivalent to a small house payment and this didn't even begin to factor in the cost of insurance. He got real quite after that disclosure.


i over hearda conversation between a couple of guys at my work about a year or so ago talking about their bikes. The one is big into his HD. It literally has less miles in 10 years then my commute bicycle (now up to 13,000).

I was racing motorcycles before I got into cycling.


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## darth biker (Jul 8, 2011)

It depends on the person. For me mortgage and kids daycare expense is much higher on he Priority list that it would be hard. I had coworker that raced road bikes that were worth at least $5k. His perspective was that you should only be riding a bike like that if your team was paying for. To each there own though after all, its your money.


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## blacksheep5150 (Oct 22, 2014)

darth biker said:


> It depends on the person. For me mortgage and kids daycare expense is much higher on he Priority list that it would be hard. I had coworker that raced road bikes that were worth at least $5k. His perspective was that you should only be riding a bike like that if your team was paying for. To each there own though after all, its your money.


Props to you man , sounds like you are on the right path . Priorities first and foremost ..

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Shane5001 said:


> The angry singlespeeder had a similar argument, but when looking at an average bike that average Joe would buy, this was my response:
> 
> You're way off, here's a real comparison of bikes normal people actually ride just in the past 7 years. All xt/lx bits, similiar suspension, almost double in price from 2008-2015.
> 2008 Trance x1: msrp $2,300-$2400
> ...


Even though you're comparing Giant Trance X's, you'e not comparing apples to apples. The specs changed on the Trances over the years, even on similarily named models.

As for the original post, it's a silly question. Expensive is relative. I have a difficult time justifying a bike over $2500 in my situation, and I won't be financially able to justify a new bike of any kind for at least a couple of years. If I was Mountain Cycle Shawn, it would be completely different.


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

mountainbiker24 said:


> Even though you're comparing Giant Trance X's, you'e not comparing apples to apples. The specs changed on the Trances over the years, even on similarily named models.
> 
> As for the original post, it's a silly question. Expensive is relative. I have a difficult time justifying a bike over $2500 in my situation, and I won't be financially able to justify a new bike of any kind for at least a couple of years. If I was Mountain Cycle Shawn, it would be completely different.


It is exactly apples to apples comparison, all bikes are mix of lx/xt with equally valued "FOR TIME PERIOD" suspension. Even switched to an x2 for 2010 to keep them equal. Minus some changes in geometry, especially the latest model, almost exact frame. Sure, technology has advanced making nicer rides, I'll admit, I'd rather have the 2015, but is there a justifiable $1,750 difference between these 2 bikes?














Some might say yes, but I don't see it. Haven't really seen a starting pay increase from 2008-2105 either, at least in healthcare jobs.


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

Another way to look at this, Joe walks into the lbs in 2008, says I have around $2000 to spend in order for the wife to still f#*! me, need a new bike. He walks out with LX/XT, race face, fox "the best back then" front and back, truly a solid bike.

Same dude but it's now. He rolls out on the 2016 Trance 27.5 3, all entry level deore, rockshox sektor (common giant, not even a revelation), rebound only rear shock, house brand wheels, still don't get the dropper post. 
https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/trance.27.5.3/22206/84046/#specifications

I prefer the new style geo anyday, but 2008 bike was much nicer. I think justifying a $5,000 bike is getting harder because bike prices have jumped out of control. I'm in no position to tell someone else how to spend their hard earned $$.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I recently rolled out of the shop for under $2k with a brand new XT 1x11 drivetrain, SLX brakes, FSR-style full suspension, RS Monarch/Reba, front and rear "Boost" 650b+ bike. This is less than I paid for a 1997 Stumpy M2 hardtail with a shitty Judy that worked for about 2 weeks, squeaky v-brakes, cranks, wheels and tires that didn't make it half a season, and a bunch of generic Ritchey parts hung on it.

Yeah, it was on sale so not full retail, but there is no good reason to ever pay full retail for a bike IMHO, unless you just like blowing money.

https://www.harobikes.com/mtb/bikes/dual-suspension/shift-27-five-plus-2016


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I'm not hearing nearly enough justification for my satisfaction. More groveling please!


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## EBG 18T (Dec 31, 2005)

I guess we just don't worry about it. Wife is ok with me buying the Ti framed' 27.5+ with XTR & American Classic wheels. My new fat bike is being built as we speak. This year we talked about buying a 2nd set of identical bikes to keep at the other house since she is sick of me dragging bikes back & forth. I am not going to argue. 

Yes we have 2 kids, both work and taking this month off for vacation.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

why do people care what others do with there money?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

tim208 said:


> why do people care what others do with there money?


Jealousy.


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Shane5001 said:


> It is exactly apples to apples comparison, all bikes are mix of lx/xt with equally valued "FOR TIME PERIOD" suspension. Even switched to an x2 for 2010 to keep them equal. Minus some changes in geometry, especially the latest model, almost exact frame. Sure, technology has advanced making nicer rides, I'll admit, I'd rather have the 2015, but is there a justifiable $1,750 difference between these 2 bikes?
> 
> Some might say yes, but I don't see it. Haven't really seen a starting pay increase from 2008-2105 either, at least in healthcare jobs.


I'm a public educator in North Carolina. I completely understand pay freezes! Check out this thread.

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/bikes-becoming-more-expensive-947024-12.html


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

slapheadmofo said:


> I recently rolled out of the shop for under $2k with a brand new XT 1x11 drivetrain, SLX brakes, FSR-style full suspension, RS Monarch/Reba, front and rear "Boost" 650b+ bike. This is less than I paid for a 1997 Stumpy M2 hardtail with a shitty Judy that worked for about 2 weeks, squeaky v-brakes, cranks, wheels and tires that didn't make it half a season, and a bunch of generic Ritchey parts hung on it.
> 
> Yeah, it was on sale so not full retail, but there is no good reason to ever pay full retail for a bike IMHO, unless you just like blowing money.
> 
> https://www.harobikes.com/mtb/bikes/dual-suspension/shift-27-five-plus-2016


Nice bike, and great deal. I never pay retail either, but it's the only solid comparison point. Nicest stumpy retailed for around $1600 in 97, although your Haro is a way better ride, your stumpy was the bee's knee's back then. And here is the 1997 equivalent of your Haro for half the price, my buddie actually had this bike (FOR TIME PERIOD, HARO WAY BETTER RIDE). 
1997 Specialized Ground Control AIM A1 Comp - BikePedia


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

What's it worth to look good, feel good, and have fun doing it? 

I justify my ride as a cheap way to stay healthy. Put in terms of medical bills or sleeping like crap because you're too fat to breathe, $5K (or more realistically, $2K) is a bargain. Likewise my $150 climbing shoes. 

If your gear sucks, it's not fun. If it's not fun, you won't do it. Wasted money.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

tim208 said:


> why do people care what others do with there money?


Exactly and that's whether it's a $200.00 bike or a 5k bike. People with low budgets get crap too.


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## jmeb (Jun 4, 2014)

Shane5001 said:


> Another way to look at this, Joe walks into the lbs in 2008, says I have around $2000 to spend in order for the wife to still f#*! me, need a new bike. He walks out with LX/XT, race face, fox "the best back then" front and back, truly a solid bike.
> 
> Same dude but it's now. He rolls out on the 2016 Trance 27.5 3, all entry level deore, rockshox sektor (common giant, not even a revelation), rebound only rear shock, house brand wheels, still don't get the dropper post.
> https://www.giant-bicycles.com/en-us/bikes/model/trance.27.5.3/22206/84046/#specifications
> ...


I'm just tipping my toes into the modern mtb game -- but while $2k buys less bike on the hierarchy -- is a 2008 slx drivetrain/fox sus really as good as modern deore/sektor?

Now i realize tech should trickle down, that we should get more for the $$$ now than we did then. But are we really getting less -- or are we getting better stuff but it is lower end.

- Dude who is awaiting shipment of first ($1600) modern bike (yari/monarch/2x gx)


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## Shane5001 (Dec 18, 2013)

jmeb said:


> I'm just tipping my toes into the modern mtb game -- but while $2k buys less bike on the hierarchy -- is a 2008 slx drivetrain/fox sus really as good as modern deore/sektor?
> 
> Now i realize tech should trickle down, that we should get more for the $$$ now than we did then. But are we really getting less -- or are we getting better stuff but it is lower end.
> 
> - Dude who is awaiting shipment of first ($1600) modern bike (yari/monarch/2x gx)


Just my opinion, but I'd take that 2008 fox float over the sektor any day of the week. I was a huge fox fan from 2008-2011. As far as the trickle down effect and quality, higher end products get more time and money into their production. Other than clutch derailleurs (genius), more gears, drivetrain really hasn't changed much since 70's. I have a 2001 shimano xtr rear derailleur that is beat to sh#*, I bought it used and have had it on at least 2 bikes. It still works better than any 10 speed lx, xt, sram x9 drivetrain that i've had since.


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