# New "Schwinn Approved" 2-Speed Kickback?



## Riding for Sanity (Mar 18, 2006)

I saw 2 Cruisers on Schwinn's 2009 website that have New 2-speed kickbacks. Who makes these hubs, are they available aftermarket??? I think this would be great on my SS road bike, with a Big Azz Sturmey 90mm drum brake up front of course!


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## wheelbender6 (Sep 25, 2007)

Bendix and Sachs made them in the past. There is currently an NOS Sachs 2 spd on EBay. Cheers


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## BikeLazer (Oct 31, 2008)

i'm only familiar with the old bendix. well made, engineering masterpiece, easy to maintain(if you make the tool). one part wears out though, and when it does the hub won't shift.

no idea who makes the new one.


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

I'm pretty sure the Bendix was the only 2-speed "kick-back" or "automatic". Well, I think Sachs made an "automatic", but I don't think it was a "kick-back". The shift spring on the Bendix didn't really wear out; the little tab on it bent out straight, and it wouldn't shift. The cog was integrated into the mechanism; and when it wore out, the hub was pretty much shot. I've never been a big fan of the "kick-back"; it was heavy, draggy, and just a bit fragile. I've got a couple of the REALLY old 2-speed manual-shift hubs.
My guess would be that perhaps Sturmey-Archer(SunRace) or somebody else revamped the old Bendix design; since I'm pretty sure Bendix is out of business, and I imagine the patent has run out. It may be a bit different than the original Bendix, as are the new SA 3-speeds from their original counterparts. At this point I'm just speculating; I'll be stopping by my old shop this weekend, so I'll see if they have any of the bikes in, or at least any more details...


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## BikeLazer (Oct 31, 2008)

it is heavy and there is some drag, but that's just part of the draw!!


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

prude said:


> ...and just a bit fragile....


I road one for 3 winters in Iowa, heavy, draggy, maybe, but fragile? Not in my experience, just the opposite, I found 'em to be bulletproof. Any issues with old hubs I've had were always fixed with a good overhaul.


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## BikeLazer (Oct 31, 2008)

yeah, had one on my urryday bike for years in wisco winters. Not Fragile!!!


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Don't be hating on Bendix 2-speeds


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## wadester (Sep 28, 2005)

pursuiter said:


> Don't be hating on Bendix 2-speeds


Why do you hate the blue band hub???


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

LOL, I never saw anything except 28H so I never picked one up.


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

pursuiter said:


> LOL, I never saw anything except 28H so I never picked one up.


 I think they only came in 28-hole; for kids' bikes. The blue band consisted of a direct-drive gear and over-drive, where the red and yellow bands were direct-drive and under-drive.
As far as their fragility; they don't hold up very long to aggressive shifting. Other than that, they're pretty bomb-proof. The lack of a shift cable makes for a nice, clean look...


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## BikeLazer (Oct 31, 2008)

two speeds rule


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

BikeLazer said:


> two speeds rule


 Thank you for your pointed statement.
Well, I talked to my old shop buddy last night, and it seems as if the two-speed is yet another Schwinn project that never materialized. Kind of like the belt-drive 3-speed cruiser of a few years ago; except that there WERE actually a few of those.
Sounds like Sachs DID make a 2-speed kick-back, although VERY few ever made it to these shores...


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

So, do the parts for the old Bendix hubs have any value? My LBS has a huge drawer of Bendix parts from forever ago and they really will just sit there.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I don't think NOS parts are worth too much. There's plenty of stuff on ebay, nobody really wants Bendix hubs except old Schwinn cruiser restorers. The 2-speed was an option, lots of people didn't like the kick-back shifting. A NOS redband has buy-it-now for $100.


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

If you've got an old 2-speed kickback, I would at least stock up on a few of the shift springs.
They don't have any parts for a 2-speed manual, do they?


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

prude, do you have any experience actully using these hubs, I mean riding them?


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

Fairly limited, but yes. I've overhauled them a few times when I worked at the Schwinn shop, and I've had several friends running them. They're really quite good, but I decided pretty early on, there, that they weren't quite my "cup-of-tea". I opted to get a couple of 2-speed manual hubs when they became available, but I haven't really decided what to do with them yet. Chances are, one of them will end up as an alternate rear wheel on my chrome cruiser; it's kind of a street-fighter, and it'd be nice to get the hole-shot...
Bottom line is: They're obsolete. If you wanna run one, it would be prudent(no pun intended) to have some of the spare parts on hand; and I would avoid very hard use.


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## Schmucker (Aug 23, 2007)

Sadly, the shift spring is one of the empty bins in the drawer. All sorts of other crap though.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

NOS SACHS Duomatic 2-speed kick-back hub.








36 hole. These were reportedly pretty robust. The main issue is the 110mm spacing - I don't have a frame for it yet, or it would have been laced up.









They also made an automatic shifting version, which had a centripetal weight sensor that would shift based on wheel speed. Last I checked, both version are available NOS, but they need to be overhauled (old resinified oil removed).


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

prude said:


> Fairly limited, but yes. I've overhauled them a few times... it would be prudent(no pun intended) to have some of the spare parts on hand; and I would avoid very hard use.


I agree it's always nice to have spares, to say they can't take abuse isn't correct. I've been riding them since 1967 and don't agree with much you have to say about these hubs. I've never had anything fail yet, all the old ones I've overhauled (~100) have worked perfectly, I've never replaced a single part in any hub I've overhauled. My experience goes back to about 1975 overhauling them in a Chicago Suburban LBS, oldest hubs were the trigger shifters from the 50s . I suspect the failures you've seen are from inexperienced mechanics mashing the poor thing back together in frustration. It's always amazed me how most shop mechanics hate Bendix and Sturmey. Seems like most just want to work on high end fashion bikes and avoid the workhorses :thumbsup:


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

itsdoable said:


> NOS SACHS Duomatic 2-speed kick-back hub....


I see it's wrapped in German language newspaper, did you get that from hubstripping? How much does it weigh?

red band Bendix = 1620gm

yellow band Bendix = 1700gm


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

pursuiter said:


> I see it's wrapped in German language newspaper, did you get that from hubstripping? How much does it weigh?
> 
> red band Bendix = 1620gm
> 
> yellow band Bendix = 1700gm


1150gm, without cog & c-ring.

Marco (@ hubstripping) is the best source for these.


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

Oh, I wouldn't say I hate the old workhorses; Sturmeys are among my favorites. There are certainly eccentricities that "new-school" riders need to be aware of, though. The 2-speeds are hardly what I'd call a "masterpiece of engineering", even for the time.
Pursuiter, it tickles me that you're at all concerned about the weight. ;>)


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

prude said:


> ...The 2-speeds are hardly what I'd call a "masterpiece of engineering", even for the time....


subjective and hating on other people's stuff



> I'm pretty sure the Bendix was the only 2-speed "kick-back" or "automatic". Well, I think Sachs made an "automatic", but I don't think it was a "kick-back".


wrong



> My guess would be that perhaps Sturmey-Archer(SunRace) or somebody else revamped the old Bendix design; since I'm pretty sure Bendix is out of business,


wrong



> Bottom line is: They're obsolete. If you wanna run one, it would be prudent(no pun intended) to have some of the spare parts on hand; and I would avoid very hard use.


subjective and wrong



> I've overhauled them a few times when I worked at the Schwinn shop


IMHO, your knowledge of these hubs is minimal, passing judgement on other people's equipment esp without really knowing much about the subject isn't really contributing positive content.



> Pursuiter, it tickles me that you're at all concerned about the weight. ;>)


Look, it's clear you don't care for these hubs, why so much hating on folks that do?


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

Geez, Pursuiter! D'ja forget to take yer meds or somethin'?! I'm not "hating" at all. This thread was started by someone seeking info on the new Schwinn cruisers, and I sought out that info and shared it. You don't know me, you don't know what I know, where I've been, or what I've done. You SURE don't know what I've got hanging in my basement. Just because somebody points out a couple of caveats regarding something that you are clearly a die-hard fan of; doesn't mean they're "hating". I dare say you don't know what hating is! As it happens, I DO like 2-speeds; in the right application. It's pretty cool that you can pull your coaster-brake rear wheel off of your bike and replace it with one that has twice as many speeds and no shift cables. But they DO have a couple of shortcomings. I present to you that your passion for them is thoroughly clouding your own objectivity.


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## klunker2 (Oct 21, 2008)

*Anyone got a Red or Yellow Band to sell?*

Just read this thread with great interest, used to have a friend who had a CCM 2-speed kickback when I was 12, it was always a fight to see who rode it. That was over 3 yrs ago.......!

Am currently building up a Klunker out of a Schwinn Excelsior frame, am wondering if I could kluge a 2 sp hub onto it?

Anyone want to get rid of a 2 sp hub, let me know thanks!.

Klunker2

Steve


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

Yes, you certainly can. Easy as pie; no shifter/cable to adjust. I could only imagine that the Excelsior would be 110mm OLD, same as a 2-speed.
I'm afraid I don't have any, but it sounds like e-bay and craigslist are pretty good places to look.


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## klunker2 (Oct 21, 2008)

*correction*

Just a slight correction, "it was over *35 *years ago, not 3 yrs ago!"




klunker2 said:


> Just read this thread with great interest, used to have a friend who had a CCM 2-speed kickback when I was 12, it was always a fight to see who rode it. That was over 3 yrs ago.......!
> 
> Am currently building up a Klunker out of a Schwinn Excelsior frame, am wondering if I could kluge a 2 sp hub onto it?
> 
> ...


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## Anejo (Nov 10, 2008)

*Ignorance and too much Free Time*

*"I'm pretty sure the Bendix was the only 2-speed "kick-back" or "automatic". Well, I think Sachs made an "automatic", but I don't think it was a "kick-back". The shift spring on the Bendix didn't really wear out; the little tab on it bent out straight, and it wouldn't shift. The cog was integrated into the mechanism; and when it wore out, the hub was pretty much shot. I've never been a big fan of the "kick-back"; it was heavy, draggy, and just a bit fragile."*

Seriously? C'mon man, you have never ridden with these hubs...

Speaking of bs, I read this thread after what, 6 years..

The first Bendix 2 speed kick back I used was from I think 1961. I used it to haul me @ 150, the 50 lb bike and another 100lbs of newspapers. I had laced it into a pre war wheel in an old skiptooth newsboy. It worked flawlessly. I have since built a dozen or more bikes using them admittedly and lazily never touching the insides of all but 2 of them. I happened to pull this article up when searching for, of all things, the flange diameter as I am going to use yet one more in a collectible build.

Anyone who has ever had the pleasure of using these hubs loves and respects them. You can buy up others for sub 30 bucks. These are now commanding 100 or more used.

A bit fragile? Stop it. Just Stop...

Your input was as valuable as dried poop between the tire treads.


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