# Big back country routes



## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

After reading the slick Shimano eBike mag-advertisement supplement (Further)included with my last FreeHub or Mountain Flyer issue, I got all excited to go tackle some big mountain routes with massive elevation on my(wife's) eBike this past weekend.

All I can say is, I'll be doing more of this. Not only can you cover so much more ground and elevation but get to places and climb grades that would not be practical on an analog bike. At least not for humans and certainly not before noon.

I was able to do 33 miles and 7200' of climbing on a big over the top _and back_ mountain ride one day in about 4 hours but was still feeling fresh enough to do a 25 mile 4500' foot up and back into some pretty remote, steep, untrammeled mountains the next morning in less than 3 1/2 hrs. And if you're keeping track and what's better yet, that's almost 12000' of descending in two morning rides without a lift or a shuttle.

Home by noon both days. Still fresh enough to do yard work one day and shampoo our carpet the next.


























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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

This has always been one of the things I would do with an E-bike. Being able to get back into places more remote and higher up.


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## Jing (Sep 4, 2013)

That’s a pretty credible sales pitch for an ebike 


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> This has always been one of the things I would do with an E-bike. Being able to get back into places more remote and higher up.


Yep, they really do open up a lot of possibilities.

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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

They are remote and untrammeled precisely because they are hard to get to.

Not anymore, I guess.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

For all the hate they get, there's no way my 60+-yr-old butt (legs) coulda done this ride and then gone out and ridden the next few days still feeling pretty fresh. They're fantastic for getting a lot of miles and climbing without ripping your legs off, especially for flat-landers. One flat, 2 tire plugs, 3 lakes, 6k feet of climbing, infinity fun... - Brian Williams's 43.9 mi mountain bike ride


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

D. Inoobinati said:


> They are remote and untrammeled precisely because they are hard to get to.
> 
> Not anymore, I guess.


Believe me, if I don't ride these trails at least once or twice a year, they will disappear off the face of the mountain. No one else goes, much less rides up here. In fact I'm already having a hard time following one of them and got lost. It was supposed to be a loop, but ended up being an out and back because I couldn't find the through trail along the ridge anymore. Also much of the access to these trails that would be impractical or at least unfun on an analog bike is on steep dirt roads and jeep roads that get used.... just not by bikes.


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## Redmon (Jan 12, 2004)

KRob said:


> After reading the slick Shimano eBike mag-advertisement supplement (Further)included with my last FreeHub or Mountain Flyer issue, I got all excited to go tackle some big mountain routes with massive elevation on my(wife's) eBike this past weekend.
> 
> All I can say is, I'll be doing more of this. Not only can you cover so much more ground and elevation but get to places and climb grades that would not be practical on an analog bike. At least not for humans and certainly not before noon.
> 
> ...


That is too cool man! I really am starting to look at E bikes as an alternative to my riipmo. What is your wifes bike anyways? If I had an Ebike I might actually come up there annd ride again)


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Redmon said:


> That is too cool man! I really am starting to look at E bikes as an alternative to my riipmo. What is your wifes bike anyways? If I had an Ebike I might actually come up there annd ride again)


Right? They're the great equalizer.

We share a 2021 Turbo Levo Comp. We also tested the Santa Cruz Heckler, Orbea Wild, and Rocky Mountain Power Play.

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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Neat that you're seeing some familiar places in a new way.

A thought that has been ballooning in my head of late is that we -- as both a generalized species and as a particular culture -- aren't good at patience. Shocker. There's not a huge evolutionary benefit to it so it makes some sense why it has worked out that way.

I can see the benefit of coming home not wrecked after covering a lot of ground.

I can see a benefit in being able to close loops that would otherwise get turned into out-and-backs, or require (more) driving.

I get stuck because I'm no longer driven by covering a lot of ground. I want what I experience when out to be _of quality_: I want to engage with the place, learn something about it, be in awe of some aspect of it. You don't have to go far to do any of that. In fact going slow and paying attention to where you are is all that is needed.

Going further just for the sake of it doesn't do it. Seems actually to work against my desires.

So -- thanks. Your post finally caused me to do a legitimate cost/benefit analysis and you just saved me a pile of cash!


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd also add there is value in getting wrecked from that big ride. 

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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

WHALENARD said:


> I'd also add there is value in getting wrecked from that big ride.


Yep. That's why it's called a "sport". Otherwise we'd all be deer hunting with night vision and machine guns, fishing with dynamite, and mountain biking with motors.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Yep. That's why it's called a "sport". Otherwise we'd all be deer hunting with night vision and machine guns, fishing with dynamite, and mountain biking with motors.


Mountain biking is not called a "sport". It only becomes a "sport" to certain individuals once you introduce competition between other individuals or teams into it. Otherwise, it's a hobby.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Here we go.

Don’t want an ebike? Then don’t get one.

Meanwhile… hear me out. Please.

Ebiking is a sport. So is mountain biking. But they're different sports. Bow hunting is a sport. Whitewater paddling is a sport. 4-wheeling is a sport. Hang gliding is a sport.

Ad infinitum. Pick you poison.

Which sports shall we condemn? Which ones shall we praise? Well it's obvious, isn't it? Let's condemn the sports we don't engage in and praise the ones we do.

It's all about us.

We can all (ALL) cite examples to prolong the debate about whether ebiking (or anything else) is legit or should be nuked. We're not going to get anywhere by continuing to do this.

I've cried at the edge of a sensitive meadow slashed to destruction by some drunken bubba doing donuts in his jacked up 4-wheeler. Shall we outlaw all 4-wheeling?

30 years ago hikers said that mountain bikers ("thrill bikers") shouldn't be allowed on trails. Too much impact. Too much erosion. Too much destruction. Too many people in the backcountry.

Maybe they were right. Those of us who've been engaged in off-road bicycling since the '80s have perspective on this. Yeah folks, us mountain bikers are pretty much out of control.

You know it's true.

Heck I know of someone who recently moved from a mountain biking mecca to a remote forested sanctuary to escape the yokel mountain bikers who'd taken over what used to be a great place to ride.

Meanwhile here we are, us mountain bikers -- the ones who not so long ago fought the hard fight to gain access -- pointing our fingers at the next emerging sport.

A sport trying to gain access... just like we did not so long ago.

Yeah, ebiking and mountain biking are different sports. And there's the rub. They look so similar. People love to say, "That's an ebike! Not a mountain bike!"

Right. It is. Big deal.

It doesn't help that the bike companies, who just want to sell product, do their best to blur the lines. Don't be fooled. We know the difference. Do we really need the hate?

Meanwhile the new-to-the-sport ebikers think they're mountain bikers, which they are not. This doesn't help either.

Can't the rest of us take a higher road?

Don't want an off-road 4x4 truck? Then don't get one. Same with ebikes. But please, live and let live. Let's stop shaking our fingers at people who do anything different than us simply because we've convinced ourselves that what WE do is right and what THEY do is wrong.

Us vs them thinking is destroying this country. Let's not let it destroy our sport. Er, sports.
=sParty


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

MX9799 said:


> Mountain biking is not called a "sport". It only becomes a "sport" to certain individuals once you introduce competition between other individuals or teams into it. Otherwise, it's a hobby.


....a hobby? You mean like high altitude alpinism is a hobby?

For the record, from Wikipedia.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

I wouldn't say riding an emtb is a diff sport, I mean suspension, disc brakes and dropper posts make riding easier but riding a modern MB isn't a _diff_ sport than riding a MB from 30 years ago.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Tickle said:


> I wouldn't say riding an emtb is a diff sport, I mean suspension, disc brakes and dropper posts make riding easier but riding a modern MB isn't a _diff_ sport than riding a MB from 30 years ago.


Riding with a motor is.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

Nope still MBing, just a little easier


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Hmm. Rode XC in Whistler last week, about 6,500' vertical over 25 miles, then did a "small" 2700 vert ride in Squamish the next day on the way back down south, where I rode 5,500 vert the next day after Squamish. But by that time, the vert was getting to me, I rode 2.700 the next day, but was too tired to ride Predator, which I really wanted to ride, so at that point I could have used some help. All self powered, but this summer it became apparent to me that if I lived in Texas, I'd have an E-bike. I was riding there in the summer and for each of my rides in the worst temps I could only ride for about an hour max before I was just done. I'm sure an e-bike would have extended that significantly and gave me a more fulfilling ride.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Tickle said:


> Nope still MBing, just a little easier


Sorry Bud, ain't taking your bait.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Worthy indeed. I love a good back country epic. 

I don't have an E bike yet. I'm probably a year or 2 away from getting one. 

I have an 8500 vert day planned. Ooh that will be epic.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

D. Inoobinati said:


> ....a hobby? You mean like high altitude alpinism is a hobby?
> 
> For the record, from Wikipedia.


for the record, straight from the dictionary....

*1.an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.*

Participate in an organized mtb race, or some other from of mtb competition, and you're doing a sport. Otherwise, you're just riding your bike somewhere in the woods, where there's really no rules other than the law that you have to abide by.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

D. Inoobinati said:


> They are remote and untrammeled precisely because they are hard to get to.
> 
> Not anymore, I guess.


I largely agree with you.

That said, you're in the e-bike forum -- what did you expect to find here?

You don't have to own one, or like them, or even approve of them.

But why come rain on someone else's parade?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Sparticus said:


> Here we go.


I pretty much agree with every word. And that _one guy_ -- his sitch sounds familiar, somehow...

But I don't come to the same 'live and let live' conclusion. I mean I do -- totally -- but I'm not content to stop there.

I want to see accountability -- people with motors sticking to designated trails and riding areas. And acknowledging that the rides they do have access to are a hard-won privilege, not a right, not to be taken for granted.

And I want to see mutual respect flowing in both directions.

Right now it feels like a free for all where none of the above is happening, and it's not sustainable in any way.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

I admit it's complicated. And I know some local ebikers who, frankly, ride in ways that piss me off.

People are people. There's the problem. The haters. The hypocrites. The self-righteous.*

I used to be a people person but people ruined it for me.
=sParty

*I know, I know... look in the mirror. {sigh}


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

I ride solo these days, used to ride w a group had some good times but it became complicated due to people are people like you say. Wasn't baiting btw, I just see emtb's as the evolution of MB's, no one cares where I ride never had anyone say a word. I just want to get out and enjoy the trails and don't care about all the other nonsense


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

mikesee said:


> I pretty much agree with every word. And that _one guy_ -- his sitch sounds familiar, somehow...
> 
> But I don't come to the same 'live and let live' conclusion. I mean I do -- totally -- but I'm not content to stop there.
> 
> ...


You're right, Mike. As for accountability -- it's lacking in the ebike world as much as it is everywhere else in our social media driven, 'me first' society.


WHALENARD said:


> I'd also add there is value in getting wrecked from that big ride.


Agree with you too, WHALENARD. I get it. Get it in spades.
I've gained over 17,000' vert in a day on a bicycle 7 times in my life. One of those times aboard a singlespeed. So yeah, I know what the burn we're talking about feels like, I understand the value in surviving -- no, thriving -- the bodily wreckage wrought by such a day.
Before I acquired an ebike 7 months ago, everybody told me, "Ebikes are crack -- you'll never want to ride your pedal bike again!"
Bullshit.
Maybe they're crack for some but not for me. Personally I prefer the pure pedaling of a real bicycle. Including the burn.
If someone told me I had to get rid of one bike, the ebike would go. Don't get me wrong, my Trek Rail 7 is a blast to ride. But it's not my go-to.
On the Rail I can cover 30 miles and +5000' without working up a sweat but that kind of riding isn't my first choice. Then again on recovery days or when I want to explore a doubletrack that I know I'd never ride on my mountain bike or when I want to do 2 or 3 laps at winch & plummet trail systems like Black Rock, Sandy Ridge or Alsea Falls instead of just 1 lap, the ebike makes sense. So to me it has a place. Further, I don't believe that the overweight, the infirm &/or the mouth breathers will be taking over the remote & untrammeled places anytime soon because of the ebike. I hope I'm not wrong about this.
I jumped into this thread to defend ebikes because I'm tired of self-righteous & hypocritical mountain bikers pointing at a new trail user group and saying, "You don't belong!" when so recently mountain bikers themselves were victims of precisely the same exclusionary attitude.
=sParty


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Old, wealthy, entitled, white guys unite!

Total trail access for eMtbs NOW!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Total trail access for eMtbs NOW!


Agreed!

.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Don't forget the rest of the quote ...

for, like, context. You guys care about context, right?


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Don't forget the rest of the quote ...
> 
> for, like, context. You guys care about context, right?


Your negativity is so, like, mature. And stuff.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Old, wealthy, entitled, white guys unite!
> 
> Total trail access for eMtbs NOW!


Finally, Mr negativity said something right! Except I'm not white, but that's ok !

To the OP awesome ride! I live in So Ca and the weekends are a zoo on the local trails. I take my ebike to the trails that are awesome, but very tough to climb, so many MTB's don't go there!

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