# Tricks to deter motorbikes from singletrack?



## DieselFuelOnly (Jan 14, 2013)

I am building new and reviving old singletrack in a multi-use area. Plenty of space and trail for all types of users but there are some groups of motorbike riders that think it is fun to ride singletrack and they inevitably tear it up. 
I will pick new lines that are tight and technical, at least at access points, to try and deter.

do any of you have any building suggestions for deterring motorbikes from riding singletrack?


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Ha, just checked your profile to see where you're located and realised you ride the same trails I do. Small world. Technically no motorized vehicles allowed at Pidherny, but someone ripped down the sign.
From what I've seen it seems like they like the wider, easier trails (i.e. Bukkake/flowjob). The trails they avoid tend to be tight ones with narrow benchcuts on steep slopes, large drops, and turns on steep slopes (i.e. Valvejob).

What trails are you interested in reviving? I'm planning on going to the build nights this year, so might see you there.


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## Chris Clutton (Nov 8, 2006)

We try to build trails that the Motorcycle riders will not enjoy but hikers and cyclists will. Most motorcycle riders like wide open flowing trail so we try to keep it narrow but still have flow. Some trails that connect to other areas are very attractive to motors. On some of trails we have tried to rout them so there is a large log to get over that is not easy to go around. On a few trails we have had to try barricading the entrances but since we have only small trees to work with the barricades soon get cut out. A good trail layout that is unattractive to the motorcycles will hopefully keep them from riding your trail!
Cheers,
Chris


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## DieselFuelOnly (Jan 14, 2013)

cerebroside said:


> Ha, just checked your profile to see where you're located and realised you ride the same trails I do. Small world. Technically no motorized vehicles allowed at Pidherny, but someone ripped down the sign.
> From what I've seen it seems like they like the wider, easier trails (i.e. Bukkake/flowjob). The trails they avoid tend to be tight ones with narrow benchcuts on steep slopes, large drops, and turns on steep slopes (i.e. Valvejob).
> 
> What trails are you interested in reviving? I'm planning on going to the build nights this year, so might see you there.


Wow good guessing that is some serious cerebro mind jacking...
;-)
There are some guys on motorbikes that like to ride the Pidherny singletrack where you wouldn'nt think they would be: front porch, valve job, back door, northern lights etc. They tore the [email protected]&t out of northern lights last year after we cleared the winter deadfall off it. They've been on Valvejob too though infrequently.

I spend a lot of time at Pidherny and want to rebuild and expand the 'tool loop' that got wrecked by the clearing for the golf course but I don't it wrecked by motors. I helped Barry a little bit with ClimbIt last year and it really pissed me off that the motors got on it right after he finished.

if you're at Pid a lot I'll probably see you out there. I'm the guy on the yellow Pugsley. That's right FAT has come to Pidherny!


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## DieselFuelOnly (Jan 14, 2013)

Chris Clutton said:


> We try to build trails that the Motorcycle riders will not enjoy but hikers and cyclists will. Most motorcycle riders like wide open flowing trail so we try to keep it narrow but still have flow. Some trails that connect to other areas are very attractive to motors. On some of trails we have tried to rout them so there is a large log to get over that is not easy to go around. On a few trails we have had to try barricading the entrances but since we have only small trees to work with the barricades soon get cut out. A good trail layout that is unattractive to the motorcycles will hopefully keep them from riding your trail!
> Cheers,
> Chris


Yah you're right line choice is huge. definitely challenging to get it right but if it were easy I wouldn't be doing it. 
Thanks for the reply


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

Make your entry point between two trees about 24" apart?


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

The only sure way to keep a motor out is to make it necessary to pick it up. Near the entrance is best. You can deter them with tight turns and features that will slow them down. Almost nothing will stop a trials rider but they don't usually cause damage either.


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## adriano (Apr 26, 2007)

Motor bikers are the plague of the mountain. E-bikers are only slightly better though...

Sent from mobile - apologies for the numerous typos


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yeah, have to agree, if you can make it so they have to do a hike with their bike, they'll turn back. We don't have santioned public trails here, just foot and animal paths that we use, but we've started building some bike specific trails with berms and such to suit, so if the stupid motos get on there they'd tear up the small berms, step ups etc to pieces so easy, that's why it's a tight tree lined trail with a hard entrance either way as we like to climb and descend it.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

DieselFuelOnly said:


> if you're at Pid a lot I'll probably see you out there. I'm the guy on the yellow Pugsley. That's right FAT has come to Pidherny!


Lucky you, I have to wait for the snow to clear before I can get out there.  Will be on a blue Knolly Delirium whenever that time comes.

Unfortunately blocking the entrance usually isn't an option as far as I can see. A lot of the forest around there is pretty open, so people will just ride around deadfall etc.
Here's the best picture I could find on google (not mine):









To be honest I would be happy with just keeping the ATV's out. The dirtbikes tend to not do as much damage, apart from ripping up some uphill sections and the backs of small jumps. The ATV's tend to wreck stuff more, and I have seen wood features that have been chopped down with chainsaws which I'm pretty sure is from them.


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## twright205 (Oct 2, 2011)

besides putting in narrows, and making it tight and twisty, (and everything else mentioned before), have you tried talking to them, not in a confrontation way necessarily, but of course you have to be out there when they are there.. do you get the feeling its a rough and tough swarm of hooligans? or one or two local boys going for a joy ride every few weeks?


or if it's a situation where there is truly a rule against motos. toss up signs stating that trail game cameras in use on trail and access points, violators will be prosecuted.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

twright205 said:


> besides putting in narrows, and making it tight and twisty, (and everything else mentioned before), have you tried talking to them, not in a confrontation way necessarily, but of course you have to be out there when they are there.. do you get the feeling its a rough and tough swarm of hooligans? or one or two local boys going for a joy ride every few weeks?
> 
> or if it's a situation where there is truly a rule against motos. toss up signs stating that trail game cameras in use on trail and access points, violators will be prosecuted.


It's an official B.C. recreation site, designated for non-motorized use. All the people who I have talked to have been nice enough, but I have avoided bringing it up because I'm out on a ride to have fun, not to start an argument. It is adjacent to a pretty large area which is commonly used by dirtbikes, quads, etc, so I think a lot of people don't realize the distinction.
I think putting some signage back up would be a good start, but I don't think that it is going to stop everyone.


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## adriano (Apr 26, 2007)

I am located in Switzerland, a mountainous paradise for MTBs, and I am seeing more and more people riding e-MTBs. My worry is that, over time, this will lead to trail-biking becoming a mass recreation, like downhill skiing, where thousands of unfit people compete acrimoniously for slope space. In the skiing dept. you can avoid the masses by going ski-touring which requires deep-snow skills and considerable endurance. But what will prevent the masses from filling up our mountains and spoiling a great sport, if any untrained couch potato can ascend effortlessly? I may be overdramatizing things, but think of how gondolas and mass downhill-skiing have changed the atmosphere of resorts and even the shape of mountains...


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

Technically you can ascend 'effortlessly' on a chairlift or dirtbike at the moment. Mountain biking is just more of a niche sport than skiing/snowboarding.
And the slopes around here aren't what I'd called packed, I rarely had to wait in a lift line this past winter. Are you sure the reason your slopes are packed isn't because of you live in Switzerland?


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## adriano (Apr 26, 2007)

Cerebroside, I fervently hope that you are right, and that this will not develop into an issue. And yes, of course you are right that Switzerland is, as a whole, much more tightly packed with people than the US Great Outdoors. Also, they say that in Switzerland everything is forbidden - and what is not forbidden is obligatory! 

BTW, I am more on the ganglioside than the cerebroside trip...


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

I've found the only completely reliable to keep throttle twisters off non motorized is barriers that they can't get over or around, at least not easily. Making a trail that they won't enjoy very much is another way but not as foolproof as a barrier.


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## rottendan (Dec 17, 2008)

if you have rock available to use you can corral sections and lead them into choke points or bottle necks, where they are forced to dismount and either turn around or drag the bike up and over. talking to people can work well also and it's a lot easier than moving rock around. good luck!/Users/sarahuptonbergquist/Desktop/IMG_0650.jpg/Users/sarahuptonbergquist/Desktop/IMG_0408.jpg


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## Kirky1991 (Apr 21, 2013)

Up my way we have a trial through a woodland, the farmer put in turnstile barriers across the entrances to the ride so cyclists can stand their bike on its rear wheel and get through it but a motorbike, no way. They are only wood but stand about 5ft high in the centre of the fence across the track. They look like a giant circle basically. The door opens inwards into the circle and you then have to wiggle around it with the bike. 

Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Kirky1991 said:


> Up my way we have a trial through a woodland, the farmer put in turnstile barriers across the entrances to the ride so cyclists can stand their bike on its rear wheel and get through it but a motorbike, no way. They are only wood but stand about 5ft high in the centre of the fence across the track. They look like a giant circle basically. The door opens inwards into the circle and you then have to wiggle around it with the bike.
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2


That sounds interesting. I was in the Hurricane/St George Utah area recently and some trails have an H shaped metal tubing barrier with the at the portals to some of the non motorized trails. You can easily lift your bicycle over the horizontal bar of the H, but lifting a dirt bike over would be pretty tough.

Like I've said, in my experience, the only way to get good compliance from motorized users in trouble spots is to place barriers the can't get though, over, or around.


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## Kirky1991 (Apr 21, 2013)

zrm said:


> That sounds interesting. I was in the Hurricane/St George Utah area recently and some trails have an H shaped metal tubing barrier with the at the portals to some of the non motorized trails. You can easily lift your bicycle over the horizontal bar of the H, but lifting a dirt bike over would be pretty tough.
> 
> Like I've said, in my experience, the only way to get good compliance from motorized users in trouble spots is to place barriers the can't get though, over, or around.


I've seen the H type sort of thing at a local skatepark. Seems a good idea. Our local trail had a few problems with horse riders coming down and chewing it all up or letting their horses dump everywhere. The circle things worked to deter the horse freaks too.

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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

I'd like to start off my saying I have never even thought of riding my dirtbike on a mountain bike trail. Honestly I didn't even know people did this! It isn't a problem where I ride.

I've ridden motocross/single track my whole life and I really can't think of anything that would deter from riding a MTB trail with my dirtbike. Besides possibly the H bar that someone just brought up! I've never seen one of those but I think it would need to be about 3ft off the ground and there cannot be anyway to get around it. Otherwise with 17 years of experience there's nothing you can put on a mountain bike trail that I couldn't make on my dirtbike. One single track trail I ride has trees more narrow than my handlebar width and switchback turns that require me to use lock to lock steering inputs. If it does get to tight than I've run down 3" dia sapling trees with a handful of throttle and made my own way through (on our personal private trails).

Most of the dirtbike single track that I ride is more difficult than I'd ever consider trying on my mountain bike. Its a bit less technical but the hills would literally be impossible to climb on a mountain bike. Not to mention the 3ft deep river crossings and mud pits. So I think the H bar at the entrance might be the only way to keep dirtbikes off you're trail.

If its just some punk kids who bought a dirtbike as a toy a somewhat high narrow bridge might keep them out. Like the bridge pictured above maybe 2ft wide and 5ft high? Again you can't leave them anyway to get around it which will be the tough part.


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