# How Did You Begin MTB?



## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Several posters who I admire for their integrity (most prominently SHM) have suggested that e-MTB get "their own access", and I agree wholeheartedly. We shouldn't attempt to hang on anyone's coattails (please excuse the banal analogies). When I started MTB circa 1983, we just began riding trails that had been hiked in parks or wherever. Have not had a problem with access in the 34 ensuing years. Attended some meetings to sort out issues with hikers and equestrians, did trail work that eventually was available and acted as a trail guide. Obviously e-MTB needs a different strategy. Even though I'm hardly riding e-MTB now (probably will need to eventually), seems like it would be a good idea to examine how to proceed. So far, I'm talking to bike shop owners and try to be a good representative of the discipline when I'm riding. Any other ideas?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fos'l said:


> Several posters who I admire for their integrity (most prominently SHM) have suggested that e-MTB get "their own access", and I agree wholeheartedly. We shouldn't attempt to hang on anyone's coattails (please excuse the banal analogies). When I started MTB circa 1983, we just began riding trails that had been hiked in parks or wherever. Have not had a problem with access in the 34 ensuing years. Attended some meetings to sort out issues with hikers and equestrians, did trail work that eventually was available and acted as a trail guide. Obviously e-MTB needs a different strategy. Even though I'm hardly riding e-MTB now (probably will need to eventually), seems like it would be a good idea to examine how to proceed. So far, I'm talking to bike shop owners and try to be a good representative of the discipline when I'm riding. Any other ideas?


My take:

There's strength in numbers.

Don't do stupid stuff. Emphasize this with everyone that you enlist in your efforts, it's public relations after all.

Come up with a cohesive strategy that is agreeable to the maximum number of people with the absolute least amount of friction.

Inventory the most likely to adopt trails/systems.

Resist drawing comparisons to human power.

Be willing to accept incremental gains.

Don't accept no, find solutions.

Advocate, advocate, advocate.

And lastly but not the least important, the saying that those that dig, decide is especially appropriate.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

I think it all starts with making no assumptiions. I'd start with first getting a firm understanding the rules and regulations in the areas you want to ride in. Not hearsay, not second hand. Dig into them....you might surprise yourself with what you learn.


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## Sharp things (Jun 8, 2017)

Everyone is an ambassador for the sport, e-bike or not. Treat people well, be courteous and respectful, follow the rules. Get involved.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

I began mtbing with a Giant Iquana, hikers, and big white egg helmet!


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

Having been extensively been involved with mtb advocacy, trail design, builds, maintenance and all that goes with it for over a decade, here's my take on it. Based on my experiences where I live, YMMV. 

Land managers don't change policy based on what an individual wants or what businesses want to sell. For example, like many places, the tennis courts in our parks were sitting barely used and for years, yes years, individuals would petition the parks dept to repaint them for Pickleball. "We want to play pickleball, give us our pickleball!" at every park board meeting. Eventually, they formed a group, raised some money and convinced parks to let them have a few courts as an experiment, they paid to repaint them, fix them up and both proved there was a demand and that they'd be a valuable user group. Now, @ 10 years later, almost all the courts are repainted and pickleball flourishes. 

How did they succeed? They proved they were legit and solved a problem. Assets were being underused, they fixed them up and made them popular again. 

Mtbers have had to do similar over the years, by proving they were a legit user group and solving problems. Maintaining trails, building new ones, helping to solve user conflict issues, education. Emtbers will have to do the same because mtb groups are almost universally going to back away from ebikes, regardless that it's mtb riders on them. You might not like it, but it's true. To have any influence, you need to organize as a separate group. 

The industry is only going to help at the fed and state legislative level, and it's at the local level that things happen. Don't hide behind the industry's strategy that they're just bikes, they aren't now and will be less like bikes moving forward. No one on the ground is buying it and it only hurts your cause. Embrace the difference and work WITH your local mtb group and land managers. Power, torque levels and range will increase, there will be increased impact on the trails, be proactive and provide solutions. Maintenance days, no ebikes on some trails, whatever. There will be user conflicts, since idiots will ride ebikes, just like idiots ride mtbs. You'll have to provide education and peer pressure to keep people on ebikes within legal limits, on legal trails and being considerate. 

If you come to a land manager and can prove that there is a demand, and that you can help them mitigate any issues with introducing ebikes on their trails, you'll get access. It's that simple. Without that, you'll get what happened here, where it's obvious there will be increased impact on heavilly used trails that they can't currently maintain alone, and they have no way to enforce anything. What's the upside for them? They have no plans to allow ebikes off of bike paths. 

It's politics, plain and simple. You have to create allies to get what you want.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

^good post


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

I started on a 1984 Miyata Ridge Runner, no foam cooler helmet, that came later. We could ride wherever we wanted, since, for the most part, we were rare and invisible. There weren't any policies in place regarding bikes on trails, that came later when the closures started. My org began in 1993, in response to losing access to almost all trails in a nearby park. 

As one longtime park manager told me once, the best way to end up banning something is to allow it. Meaning, without managing it. While we've become a recognized influence regarding trails locally, we still haven't gotten access to those trails back and likely won't. A lesson for everyone.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

I started on a 1983 (AIR) Univega Alpina; with two front chainrings and basically road bike gearing. Brutal (for a beginner). Harry, good information. We have so few e-MTB'ers here that it will be difficult to begin a program IMO. Just have to see what happens.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Harryman said:


> Having been extensively been involved with mtb advocacy, trail design, builds, maintenance and all that goes with it for over a decade, here's my take on it. Based on my experiences where I live, YMMV.
> 
> Land managers don't change policy based on what an individual wants or what businesses want to sell. For example, like many places, the tennis courts in our parks were sitting barely used and for years, yes years, individuals would petition the parks dept to repaint them for Pickleball. "We want to play pickleball, give us our pickleball!" at every park board meeting. Eventually, they formed a group, raised some money and convinced parks to let them have a few courts as an experiment, they paid to repaint them, fix them up and both proved there was a demand and that they'd be a valuable user group. Now, @ 10 years later, almost all the courts are repainted and pickleball flourishes.
> 
> ...


e-bikers doing trail work.. that's something I'd pay to see.


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Been hiking as kid, since 1974. One day, I took my 45 pound steel, "wannabe Motocross bike" with 24" knobbies, explored a nearby Desert Goat trail and was hooked. This was circa, 1976. I gathered neighborhood kids to join me - but lack of traction and flats kept everybody away. Those days, no groomed hiking trails existed. I just wished at age 12 - I was visionary enough to expand upon riding a BMX bike on natural trails carved-out by Native Americans and Bighorn Sheep.

Here is the FS Singlespeed, "pre-Klunker" I used:








Sent from my HTC6525LVW using Tapatalk


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Lemonaid said:


> e-bikers doing trail work.. that's something I'd pay to see.


Come visit, oh and bring your checkbook. Not only do I dig, I also allow riding on my land. Don't be so quick to cast judgement.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Gutch said:


> Come visit, oh and bring your checkbook. Not only do I dig, I also allow riding on my land. Don't be so quick to cast judgement.


Do you construct projects on public land?


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## mountainbiker24 (Feb 5, 2007)

Very constructive post. While I won't embrace e-mtbs as bicycles, I would support e-bike trail access on their own merits. Not much more to add to the above posts. Good luck!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

life behind bars said:


> Do you construct projects on public land?


No, I do not. Just on my private land.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

Probably most positive outcome in OC, CA is that eventually (if e-MTB's proliferate) we might convince the hierarchy to let us ride a few trails that generally have low usage, then have more or less access based on how we respond. Doesn't matter to me since my MTB is fun and there are ICE legal areas available. One thing that I haven't done yet is ride up some of my favorite places where there's a road ascent and a killer singletrack descent. Just take the battery out and (FOR ME) have a non-motorized vehicle. Let the purists rage.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

fos'l said:


> Let the purists rage.


If you carry this type of attitude with you in your interactions with others while pursuing access, you're going to fail. My two cents.


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## Bjorn2Ride (Apr 4, 2017)

Except for the fact that A) there is nearly zero enforcement B) where there is enforcement it is to catch MTBs where they are not supposed to be C) modern e-bikes are nearly indistinguishable visually.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

Gutch said:


> No, I do not. Just on my private land.


.... :rolleys: :bluefrown:


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Lemonaid said:


> .... :rolleys: :bluefrown:


Sorry if that's not enough for you.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

fos'l said:


> Probably most positive outcome in OC, CA is that eventually (if e-MTB's proliferate) we might convince the hierarchy to let us ride a few trails that generally have low usage, then have more or less access based on how we respond. Doesn't matter to me since my MTB is fun and there are ICE legal areas available. One thing that I haven't done yet is ride up some of my favorite places where there's a road ascent and a killer singletrack descent. Just take the battery out and (FOR ME) have a non-motorized vehicle. Let the purists rage.


Where is it illegal to ride an e-mtb in OC?


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

1983 I bought my first one. Even then almost every young person in town had one. I know the horsemen hated them and still do, but I never gave that a thought and never had a incident. Trails were alot more nasty in those days, for bikes. Now we are wall to wall incredible trails. We already had a huge inventory, but in the last 3 years, the miles of really good trail have increased by a factor of 5, anyway. 

Who built them? The best are built by pros with those tracked excavators. And they have have built far far more trails than all the volunteers combined, up here. We have all kinds of volunteers too, the local hard core group, and many more who come in from out of town, the most productive are troubled youths. I'm not kidding. Many times I have come across them in groups of 20 or so, camped way out, building new bike ready trails. 

I always say thanks, even if the results are too turny at times


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## NIMROD23 (Jul 11, 2017)

I used to commute to work on a TT bike in my 20's then got into hiking through the winter autumn and spring and ended up buying a mountain bike hoping to do some cool wheelies and stuff like danny macaskill and started riding with a group organised through the shop I bought my bike had loads of fun the rest is history!


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