# Pivot Phoenix Vs Turner DHR



## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm trying to decide between these two bikes and need some help. I wont be able to try either one out before buying. 

Can anyone with experience on or owns one of these beauties give me some real feedback on the pro's and con's of either?


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## MTBAlex (Mar 29, 2006)

You're not going to find too many comparisons since the phoenix is relatively new.

But I can say that I like my 2011 DHR. It is extremely plush, and super agile. On the trails and jumps, I felt that it is livelier than my 6 inch bike.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

The obvious common thread between these two bikes is the DW Link. I have a 2011 DHR and am a big fan of the Turner and the DW Link.

I've heard excellent things about both bikes, and I don't think you can go wrong with either. The shop I bought my DHR from is also a Pivot dealer, and they raved about the Phoenix and its pedaling ability. At one time or another I considered the Phoenix, and just about every other top of the line DH bike, while making my decision. With bikes on that level you will have a difficult time finding anyone with something bad to say about them.

The deciding factor for me was the fact that Turner bikes are handmade here in the US, and frames are actually built in Portland, OR where I live. Turner also has an incredible customer service reputation.

So far, after about 3 months of riding, I have nothing bad to say about the performance of my DHR. It is light, agile, and of course pedals exceptionally well with the DW link. My bike came in right at 37lbs with full Saint build and a Fox 40. I've seen some Boxxer WC/SRAM builds come in about 35.5. It is one of, if not the lightest, big bike you can build. Without a doubt the bike is faster than I am, but I did notice an improvement in my riding after the first ride. Balance and cornering is amazing compared to my old Kona Stab, and I found that almost immediately I quit cornering moto style and was able to stay on the pedals through tough sections.

Here is a link to my build thread:
2011 Turner DHR

I would advise that you check out the posts about the DHR in the Turner forums on mtbr.com, as they do contain a lot of information. Performance of the DHR is exceptional, but it does seem there were some design flaws or ommisions that prevent the use of some components.

As a few examples, the DHR will not accept a Vivid Air shock without additional milling of the shock housing since it was designed around the dimensions of a DHX and not the larger diameter of the Vivid Air.

Lots of good stuff can also be found in these threads:
2011 DHR Setups
2011 DHR Tech & Setup

I also found that although every article and video I viewed concerning the DHR referenced its compatibility with the Angleset, I had problems with frame contact between the crown and frame on Fox 40. Turner replied that the frame was designed around the use of an external bearing headset, which would have been very useful info BEFORE I bought a Fox 40 and Angleset for my build. The solution for me ending up being the purchase of an aftermarket crown from Risse Racing, which has pinch bolts in the front of the crown and provides extra clearance needed between the frame and crown to run an angleset.

Here is a link to my post:
2011 Turner DHR & Fox 40 Frame Contact

As another cool note, both these bikes seem to be pretty rare....at least at this time. I was at NW Cup Round 2 last week, and did not see another 2011 DHR. I only saw 2 Pivot Phoenix bikes, and they were ridden by Pros.

Thats my $0.02. Here is a pic of my DHR I took last weekend.


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## MTBAlex (Mar 29, 2006)

Charvey! that thing looks spanking new still. where is the dirt on it?


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## phyco ref (Jun 12, 2010)

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239739&highlight=phoenix

Good read here from some people that have ridden both.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

MTBAlex said:


> Charvey! that thing looks spanking new still. where is the dirt on it?


She gets washed more than my car does thats for sure. Gets plenty dirty just about every weekend though.


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## MTBAlex (Mar 29, 2006)

Just finished riding a jump trail, and I have to say that I am loving the DHR. It is so plush that I dont feel any of the landing. At that same time, it is poppy and you can get good air. It is very balanced in the air and I never felt like I was out of control. 

What blows my mind too is that it is to easy to move around in the air. I love this bike.


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## supermoto (Jan 26, 2004)

I havent ridden a DW DHR but I am in love with my new Phoenix. They are now shipping to the "common people". This bike rides like no other DH bike I have ridden and I have ridden quite a few. It is super responsive and nimble, turns and manuals at the mere thought. Pedals great of course, and easy to hop. The bike craves rider input but also demands it. It is not a bike to go to sleep on. Also I cant seem to get the weight down without making some performance sacrifices. Mine weighs in at 41. I might have to look at tubeless, but I refuse to put an air fork on this beauty.. I might be biased but I think the Pivot is a better looking bike than the Turner. Cant wait for Whistler in July!!


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## david8613 (May 31, 2005)

that black looks the sooooo nice! what brakes are running on her?


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

Not too sober so if this is terrible way of going about it.... my bad

Origin of Production: Turner takes the cake cuz we got West Side U - S - A!!!!!! 
Engineering quality: Turner is just on another level, attention to detail is off the hook. Engineering masterpiece. 
Weight of frame: They're both light, don't worry about the grams fool
Geometry: They both have kick ass geometry 
Price: Pivot will save you about $200
Stiffness: Pivot has a freakin burly rear end but that being said I have no complaints from my DHR being flexy whatsoever 
Overall: You can't go wrong with either bike, you really can't. If you want to be an economic patriot you'd go with the DHR and never look back.

Ph and sesthetically the DHR is miles beyond


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## bear (Feb 3, 2004)

supermoto said:


> ... Also I cant seem to get the weight down without making some performance sacrifices. Mine weighs in at 41. I might have to look at tubeless


FWIW, if tubeless works for a DH hack like me I'm sure it'd be good for you. I've run Maxxis and Kenda DH tires with Stan's rubber strips and it's a huge improvement in "rolling weight feel" - better acceleration, yadda yadda. Makes it comfortable running stupid-burly Neve 2.7 on the front even (for me).


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## chauzie (Mar 8, 2010)

supermoto said:


> ...... I might be biased but I think the Pivot is a better looking bike than the Turner.......


Pivot definitely has the beauty edge over the Turner. To me, the Turner looks bland, nothing jumps out. The Pivot looks burlier (more massive) at both the front and rear triangles (maybe this is why the Pivot weighs more).


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

DHR looks cooler as frame-only. Once they are built up the Turner is kind of fugly for some reason. I'm jonesing for a Phoenix.


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## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

gticlay said:


> DHR looks cooler as frame-only. Once they are built up the Turner is kind of fugly for some reason. I'm jonesing for a Phoenix.


I have to agree. No disrepect to the poster above but that DHR in the pic, the orange one, does nothing for me aesthetically. I don't think it's the color either, can't put my finger on it


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## eabos (Jun 11, 2005)

supermoto said:


> I havent ridden a DW DHR but I am in love with my new Phoenix. They are now shipping to the "common people". This bike rides like no other DH bike I have ridden and I have ridden quite a few. It is super responsive and nimble, turns and manuals at the mere thought. Pedals great of course, and easy to hop. The bike craves rider input but also demands it. It is not a bike to go to sleep on. Also I cant seem to get the weight down without making some performance sacrifices. Mine weighs in at 41. I might have to look at tubeless, but I refuse to put an air fork on this beauty.. I might be biased but I think the Pivot is a better looking bike than the Turner. Cant wait for Whistler in July!!


Hey there, just a quick note re tubeless. As awesome as those Syncros rims are I'm skeptical of how they would work as a tubeless conversion. It was ridiculously easy to install your minion on the Syncros rim which makes me wonder if a tubeless setup would blow off the rim easily. If you went true tubeless with a Mavic 823 I doubt you would be really saving any weight. Just throwing in my 2 cents.

now quit whining about weight and go ride Somo or something, your bike is pure sexy :yesnod:


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## dirtbag (Dec 30, 2003)

eabos said:


> I have to agree. No disrepect to the poster above but that DHR in the pic, the orange one, does nothing for me aesthetically. I don't think it's the color either, can't put my finger on it


Eye of the beholder perhaps, but I think the new DHR is the best looking DH rig out there. I do think the Phoenix is great looking too. The DHR is so spare, with a visual economy of effort that appeals to me. As an architect, I can tell you that is not an easy thing to pull off. It probably helps to keep all the linkage so low and compact around the BB.

I certainly wouldn't base my decision to buy one based on looks though. I am drawn to a more active suspension like a Podium or Jedi (although I could never buy a Jedi based on looks alone :eekster: ).


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

I haven't ridden a Pivot Phoenix so I can't comment on that but I do have a 2011 DHR, and personally I would tell you to get the Phoenix.

One of the reasons I bought the DHR was because of Turners supposedly superior build quality and highly renowned customer service. However, upon receiving my frame and dealing with Turner I can't really say anything good about them. My frame had noticeable burn through on both the headset and bottom bracket, and a messed up weld that was covered up. The headset also needed reaming and I had to re-chase the bb because the threads looked horrendous.

After all of that I was a little disturbed at the lack of frame prep or quality control on Turner's behalf, but all of that really isn't that bad compared to what I discovered while building the frame up: the iscg tabs were out of spec by over 3mm! I mean really, how do you mess that up? The design of the tab on the dhr is basically one unit welded onto the bb, but mine has a noticeable gap in between the bb tabs and the bb. The best part, Turner's response was to file down a chain guide to make it work, or do as I had ended up doing and run almost 10mm of spacers to get a bb adapter to clear the frame welds and thus ruin the chain line. I ended up milling down a bb adapter so I now have a proper chain line.

However, as far as the ride goes this bike is amazing. It's very smooth, and corners better than any other bike I have ever ridden. In the rough I feel that it is smoother than my old v10, and tracks better in hard braking sections. I do notice the rear shock spiking at high speeds however, but that is my only complaint of the ride of the bike. It really is the best DH bike I have ever ridden.


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## supermoto (Jan 26, 2004)

2011 Codes; crazy power!


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## supermoto (Jan 26, 2004)

No worries Eabos. I just figure you gotta complain about something or no one takes your review seriously. The bike does not feel heavy at all. Also I wont be running tubeless on the syncros rims, just dont have the patience for it. Had some nice flight time at the pit this morning and the bike is getting tweaked and dialed in nicely.


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## trap121 (Mar 7, 2011)

Is anyone using Pivots XO build for the Phoenix or is everyone piecing it together?


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

eabos said:


> I have to agree. No disrepect to the poster above but that DHR in the pic, the orange one, does nothing for me aesthetically. I don't think it's the color either, can't put my finger on it


You can't talk **** until you see it in person.
It's not the best looking in photos but in person its next level


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## toHELLuRIDE (Jan 27, 2008)

Phoenix all the way.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Iggz said:


> You can't talk **** until you see it in person.
> It's not the best looking in photos but in person its next level


I'm pretty sure it would look rad enough when you blast past me on A-line


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## [email protected] (Dec 29, 2003)

NAYR751 said:


> However, as far as the ride goes this bike is amazing. It's very smooth, and corners better than any other bike I have ever ridden. In the rough I feel that it is smoother than my old v10, and tracks better in hard braking sections. I do notice the rear shock spiking at high speeds however, but that is my only complaint of the ride of the bike. It really is the best DH bike I have ever ridden.


NAYR751's last statement sums up my experience with the 2011 DHR, but I haven't had the shock spiking issues, but that could easily be different setups. It is the best DH bike I have ridden in all my years of DH racing (since 1997) and owning a top DH shop (since 2000). Mine went together flawlessly and has reignited my desire to ride DH.

Link to my DHR build.


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## chauzie (Mar 8, 2010)

NAYR751 said:


> I haven't ridden a Pivot Phoenix so I can't comment on that but I do have a 2011 DHR, and personally I would tell you to get the Phoenix.
> 
> One of the reasons I bought the DHR was because of Turners supposedly superior build quality and highly renowned customer service. However, upon receiving my frame and dealing with Turner I can't really say anything good about them. My frame had noticeable burn through on both the headset and bottom bracket, and a messed up weld that was covered up. The headset also needed reaming and I had to re-chase the bb because the threads looked horrendous.
> 
> ...


Umm all those issues with the frame doesn't sound like a Turner product is supposed to be like to me! Have you raised this issue up over at the Turner forum? I'm sure homers would have a hard time believing your story given how homers rave about Turner. I'm surprised you did not get a new frame though.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

the reason the phoenix is a better looking bikes is because the seatstay and the toptube like up and the seattube and the 3rd bar on the rear triangle are parallel so that the lines all flow better (exact same reason why the sunday is still one of the best looking frames out there imo) also the subtle curves work instead of massive bends that are ugly.

also dhr has everything in one place it cant help but look bare. and because all the lines are all at different angles it doesn't work aesthetically. 

however performance wise they will pedal the same, corner very very similarly and track the same, brake the same. however cant comment on how good at jumping without comparing shock ratios properly.

only real thing you will notice is weight and aesthetics. if i had to choose between the two id choose the phoenix as more pleasing to the eye since the weight wont hold you back.

but if i wasn't limited to these two frames id choose neither of them.


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## charvey9 (May 13, 2010)

gticlay said:


> DHR looks cooler as frame-only. Once they are built up the Turner is kind of fugly for some reason. I'm jonesing for a Phoenix.


It is all personal taste, but I couldn't disagree more. My jaw dropped the first time I saw the DHR, and the way it looks certainately played into my decision to purchase. To me, a bike should still look like a bike.

The Phoenix has some more bling with flash stickers and such, but the Turner is a friggin elegant machine. Let the design and craftsmanship speak for itself, the CNC work on these frames is also amazing.


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## NAYR751 (Apr 22, 2006)

chauzie said:


> Umm all those issues with the frame doesn't sound like a Turner product is supposed to be like to me! Have you raised this issue up over at the Turner forum? I'm sure homers would have a hard time believing your story given how homers rave about Turner. I'm surprised you did not get a new frame though.


To be honest I do not want to raise the issue any further. I made a bb adapter work and after all the headaches and wait time I'd rather just ride the bike. Despite all the crap I listed, this is the best DH bike I've ever ridden. Period.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

charvey9 said:


> It is all personal taste, but I couldn't disagree more. My jaw dropped the first time I saw the DHR, and the way it looks certainately played into my decision to purchase. To me, a bike should still look like a bike.
> 
> The Phoenix has some more bling with flash stickers and such, but the Turner is a friggin elegant machine. Let the design and craftsmanship speak for itself, the CNC work on these frames is also amazing.


And rat tail file work if you want to run the vivid air :thumbsup:


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## altadank (Mar 19, 2006)

bxxer rider said:


> but if i wasn't limited to these two frames id choose neither of them.


^^^ well don't keep us guessing?


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## Guest (May 23, 2011)

I agree the Pivot is better looking, but I'd go for the Turner. The DHR reminds me of the old Giant Team DH from the early 2000's. I know the suspension design couldn't be more different, but still...

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...&tbm=isch&prmd=ivnsfd&ei=V7baTeNNkva2A4ucoI0M


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## jcook1989 (Mar 16, 2008)

altadank said:


> ^^^ well don't keep us guessing?


He'd get an Orange.

The worlds ugliest bike with an antique suspension design.


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## trailadvent (Jun 29, 2004)

Wow some out theyre opinions on looks or is it just jealously?

Iggz's DHR is one of my favs to date for best DHR build and look. Well done mate to me stunning.

Beauty def is in the eye of the beholder, I also like the Pivot but these are totally different bikes, whether they make that distinction on the course who knows unless you've raced ridden both setup correctly for you! As usual e-spec as I doubt anyone here has!

Wheelbase has a huge affect on the ride of a bike and the Pivot and the DHR are quite different the DHR being much longer for a given size, Front and Centers also affect ride characteristics greatly.

As for looks to me Ive become much more appreciative of many brands in 2011.

I recently got to compare a Carbon V10, Demo, and Zerode I liked all of them, stunning in they're own way, piccs here just do not do justice to a bike, let alone what a well setup ride does.

I know I don't look at my bike when I ride her!

Both of these would be awesome bikes imo, the CNC work of the DHR is incredible to look at though. ahh so hard to decide, I like blondes and Brunettes, Red heads etc enjoy the one ya with.


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## bxxer rider (Jun 7, 2008)

jcook1989 said:


> He'd get an Orange.
> 
> The worlds ugliest bike with an antique suspension design.


keep up, im not riding the 222 any more, its retired to the wall.

however, when money allows ill be back on orange soon enough, but time being.....a turner dhr

(id rather have a single pivot over any new fangled design that just uses long words to confuse the majority to hide the fact its nothing new, nothing better, just same rebadged idea that was not the best in the first place otherwise it wouldn't be rebadged)


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## altadank (Mar 19, 2006)

trailadvent said:


> ...... blondes and Brunettes, Red heads etc enjoy the one ya with.


one of each and a nice wholesome bowl of ice cream please!

But REALLY and orange over either DHR or phoenix seems a bit wackrft: rft:


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

trailadvent said:


> Wow some out theyre opinions on looks or is it just jealously?
> 
> Iggz's DHR is one of my favs to date for best DHR build and look. Well done mate to me stunning.
> 
> ...


You sir are a gentleman and a scholar.


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## Iggz (Nov 22, 2006)

bxxer rider said:


> (id rather have a single pivot over any new fangled design that just uses long words to confuse the majority to hide the fact its nothing new, nothing better, just same rebadged idea that was not the best in the first place otherwise it wouldn't be rebadged)


"I've never tried it but I know it sucks durka durr durrr"


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