# Bluto Tuning Thread



## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I know this is a more limited group, but for any/ all Bluto adopters, where are you running your fork? I am having to drop my pressure way below recommended to get any good action out of the fork and get full travel. Even at 75psi, I get 15% sag and the fork feels super stiction-ey. Dropped it down to 65 to try later today. I'm 165- 170 all kitted up, so should be 100+ psi.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Sure, now that I have the thing on order someone posts something negative. I'll be able to join in on this discussion on Saturday (maybe).


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Ha! Not negative- I've been super happy with it, but I am pretty picky about how my suspension feels. I've still only had it on maybe 4 rides (busy summer plus 2 other bikes that I regularly ride), but it feels stiffer than I want it to, and it looks like I'm only getting about 2/3 of my stroke.  I'm going to put some slick honey on the stanchions and have it on a few more rides with lower pressure before I decide to tear it apart. Maybe it just needs to be broken in?


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

What kind of trails and riding were you doing that required a lower than recommended type of pressure? Do you consider yourself to a casual rider who prefers soft suspension or an aggressive rider who prefers stiff suspension?


I rode my bluto for the first time last night, but just around the block a few times.

It seemed stictiony, but only like a new fork normally does. In my experience, it takes a few rides for fork bushings to loosen.

Also, turning the compression knob made a surprisingly huge difference in the typical push down on the bars test. Unfortunately I threw away the manual and can't find it online so it isn't clear exactly what that knob does within the fork.

I had to use slightly more pressure than recommended to get the desired stiffness. Instead of worrying about sag, I normally aim for a pressure that prevents bottoming except when something extreme happens. As the fork breaks in, it'll need some tweaking for sure. But for a starting point, I'm running 105psi for 160 pounds of rider and gear.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

My normal method of setting up a fork is like yours dfiler, I want to use all the travel when I am riding aggressively and don't want excessive bob when I'm pedaling. I'll start with the recommended psi and work my way to the right spot.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

dfiler- I'm a pretty aggressive rider. The trails I ride are chunky and techy, dry, Colorado front-range trails. I am pretty savvy to suspension, but this felt more stictiony than I thought- it very well could be that it just needs to break in, but with the fork at recommended PSI and the compression all the way open, it's tough to even compress the fork very far, and, like I said, I am only getting about 60% of my stroke. 

The blue knob is your compression damper. Typically, the damper has oil flowing through it- either in an "open bath" or enclosed "bladder." Either way, the oil/ fluid is flowing through the damper assembly and through various ports. When the blue knob is all the way open (counter clockwise), it's allowing as much fluid to pass through those ports as possible. As you turn the knob clockwise, you are, in essence, closing off those ports, making it harder for the fluid to flow through and thus harder to compress the fork. All the way clockwise is "locked out" (though it will blow through if it needs to on a bigger hit to prevent damage to the fork). FixieDave hypothesized that it could be that some of these ports are clogged, but, again, I'll probably give it a bunch more rides before I take it apart- just wanted to see if anyone else was experiencing similar stuff.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

That's how I would describe compression damping as well. I'm interested in the specific type of valving but not enough to break the fork down before it needs service.

It will be interesting to see if your fork breaks in at all. I'll report back with my findings as well.


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## OCDKV (Jul 7, 2014)

dfiler said:


> Unfortunately I threw away the manual and can't find it online so it isn't clear exactly what that knob does within the fork.


https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen.0000000004694_rev_a_2015_bluto_reba_sm.pdf

One 2015 Bluto manual :thumbsup:


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

if you let all the air out of the fork, can you compress it all the way? It could be overfilled with oil I've had this happen before where a fork is hyrdo-locked by too much fluid - after getting it back from a rebuild.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Good suggestions Jisch.

I'd seen the service manual but was hoping that a user manual might contain additional info on damping/lockout. That service manual also depicts a gate valve which only applies to the Reba.

The reason for the interest is that there can be a big difference between forks. For example my manitou circus can be run with the compression knob set to lockout without fear of damaging the fork. It has blow off valving. The same is not true for the fox floats I've owned. I destroyed the lockout on a float by forgetting to unlock before sending a medium sized drop.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Sounds like you're running too much air.

Recommended psi's are just that--recommended. 

I weigh 15# more than you and I'm running 15psi less. 

IMO, you need to dump some air before anything else.

Once the air spring feels right, then you can fiddle with air volume and damper adjustments.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

I weigh 240 and have 160 lbs of air 3 turns out on rebound and 4 bottomless tokens installed....also have changed to 80mm with an air tube from a SID...I'm also thinking about changing from 5wt to 7.5 just to see what happens


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have only ridden my Fatboy with the Bluto around the yard, in my pump track and up and down a few curbs, hopefully I'll get it in the dirt tomorrow. 

At first I kept letting air out because I wasn't getting the travel or the response I was hoping for. I checked the rebound and it was all the way slow (doh!). Speeding it up improved things dramatically - as someone else mentioned, that knob does a lot and when its too slow it prevents the fork from moving through its travel.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

A few rides on the bluto now... 115psi is working for me (160 pounds with gear). The o-ring shows I've been bottoming it but I haven't felt it behave like it was bottoming.


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## chriskmurray (Dec 29, 2013)

Be sure to play with the air tokens, if you are not getting full travel try removing a token. The more tokens you have in the air side of your fork the more the air spring ramps up through the travel.

Also if you are really picky about your suspension, you can actually run the RCT3 damper in the Bluto over the stock damper. You will have to play around to find the right oil volumes though.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^Wow- good to know about the RCT3 Damper- I LOVE my Pike. Amazing feel. I took out a token last night. FWIW, there were two installed on a 100mm Bluto. I'll try it out sometime later this week.


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## AC/BC (Jun 22, 2006)

Is there a way to reduce the 120 Bluto to a 100?


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## OCDKV (Jul 7, 2014)

It says in the manual you'll need 2 bottomless tokens and buy a new air shaft (part# 11.4018.026.015). Looks pretty straight forward.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^^You could take your air shaft out, send it to me, and I'll send you my 100 shaft.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Did my first real ride on my fatboy with the Bluto tonight. On the continuum of incremental to revolution change, it's somewhere in the middle. It was great to charge through rock gardens without worry. Catching air was awesome. Overall I'm very happy, it will take a few more rides to get it dialed. The best part is it didn't mess with the feel if the bike at all, I really didn't notice the weight or anything weird with the geometry.


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

I'm 160 with gear too and I have it at 85psi but only on a few mild rides so far. I also feel like its sticky and not very plush out of the box.


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## chriskmurray (Dec 29, 2013)

OCDKV said:


> It says in the manual you'll need 2 bottomless tokens and buy a new air shaft (part# 11.4018.026.015). Looks pretty straight forward.


Yup, very simple swap and it looks like you have someone willing to swap air shafts!


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## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

So Chris an 80mm Bluto can be changed to 100mm with a new air shaft and tokens? I haven't received my Bluto yet but should be here this week, so I haven"t read the manual yet. Thanks!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I ride often at my local trail system, its five minutes from my house and I can get 10 miles of riding in when I don't have time to drive further. 

I run Strava, I have a few KOMs out there, mostly because of the number of times I have ridden everything, sometimes the stars align. There's a nice switchback climb out there that I have been gunning for - today with the Fatboy and the Bluto I got the KOM back. 

Its weird because I really didn't feel like I was going that hard. Is it all because of the Bluto? No way, but at a minimum it didn't hurt my time either. I rode it with my Niner a week ago gunning for the KOM, I felt like I rode way harder than today and I didn't get it. 

All this to say that the Bluto is a good addition to this bike, happy to have it (and all this could be because my phone/Strava glitched too).


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## OCDKV (Jul 7, 2014)

Forged1 said:


> So Chris an 80mm Bluto can be changed to 100mm with a new air shaft and tokens? I haven't received my Bluto yet but should be here this week, so I haven"t read the manual yet. Thanks!


The 80mm should come with all 4 tokens so to go from 80-100mm you should only need the longer air shaft and remove 2 tokens. You can download the manual and parts lists from Sram.


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## chriskmurray (Dec 29, 2013)

OCDKV said:


> The 80mm should come with all 4 tokens so to go from 80-100mm you should only need the longer air shaft and remove 2 tokens. You can download the manual and parts lists from Sram.


Yep. It is a pretty simple change if you are comfortable taking a fork apart.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

I have the air shafts that I took out of my 100s if anyone needs one.......just pay to ship


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## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Fat907 said:


> I have the air shafts that I took out of my 100s if anyone needs one.......just pay to ship


I sent you a PM! Cheers!


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## winkster (Mar 28, 2012)

Advice needed, I recentley installed the Bluto fork and after a couple of rides the fork has started loosing air pressure during the ride. It will go from 80 psi to 50 psi and feels very unresponsive. If I air it up it will hold pressure for a while into the ride but then it drops pressure at some point in the ride. Any clue as how to go about fixing this issue? Thanks for any help.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I think RS has been known for this problem (I think) Do a search but I remember someone recommended letting all the air out and cycling the fork a few times then pumping it up again. I could be completely wrong and pulling this out of my a$$ but it's worth a shot. Remember when you search that the Bluto is about the same as a Reba so what applies for one might apply to the other.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

I pick up my fatboy with an 80mm bluto installed by the LBS, who will tune it for my riding style, however, this is hard in a parking lot. Based on the length of the Bluto 80mm, I suspect I should go for minimum sag and probably should have gone 100mm. Regardless, any input is appreciated before I pick it up.
Thank you,
FGO


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Father Guzzi Obrian said:


> I pick up my fatboy with an 80mm bluto installed by the LBS, who will tune it for my riding style, however, this is hard in a parking lot. Based on the length of the Bluto 80mm, I suspect I should go for minimum sag and probably should have gone 100mm. Regardless, any input is appreciated before I pick it up.
> Thank you,
> FGO


A 80mm with 25% sag is about the exact same a-c as the stock fork. That being said my frame is a 69.8 HT angle at 468mm a-c (which is a 80mm Bluto with 25% sag) and I am running a 100mm Bluto and I love it.


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## ridehard84 (Jun 7, 2010)

I am interested in getting one of these forks what did u use for hubs on these things.


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## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Bikeman.com has Hope 150mm front hubs for bluto in stock right now for $111.99 free shipping! Universal cycles has the Hope and salsa specific hub in stock too.


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## ridehard84 (Jun 7, 2010)

How much is reasonable to get the rim laced


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

I know all the prices, but my LBS who has sold me my Camber and my Roubaix was willing to sharpen their pencil, buy all the bits, install them and then fit me when the install was done. It was a very fair price and they warranty this just like the bike. I really cant complain, I will be riding a fitted, warrantied Bluto for ~$900. Cheaper if I did it myself, but my LBS is two blocks from my house and have exemplary service.... No brainer for me.
Cheers,
FGO


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## R3D2 (Jun 26, 2007)

ridehard84 said:


> I am interested in getting one of these forks what did u use for hubs on these things.


i have the i9 front hub with their adapter kit. my gf has the salsa 150mm hub which doesn't require an adapter but i wanted to keep things matchy so i just got the adapter.

overall the fork is great. a definite game changer imo. could it feel better...? yeah, i think it could but being the first mass produced fat bike fork i'm pretty stoked on it. i've since sold my niner sir 9 and haven't touched my full susp bikes and now i want a dropper post...


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I took my Fatboy/Bluto out on a 10 mile ride this morning. The ride was full of intense rock gardens and screaming downhills. I have been reluctant to bring my fat bike on rides like this in the past, the necessity to slow down bugs me - I like going fast. I just put my dropper post back on - so I had a bit of an issue with seat positioning. 

The Bluto definitely made the Fatboy a full bore machine. I found myself able to keep my fingers off the brakes and really crank through the rock gardens. I was leading the ride and had a fast guy with me. I won't say I dropped him (because I didn't), but I was able to keep him behind me without him riding my wheel. 

So I guess I'm changing my earlier statement that it's not a game changer (if I made such a statement), the Bluto is a game changer. It's turned my Fatboy from a fun bike to ride in limited situations, to one that is fun in a lot broader situations. 

Definitely worth the money. So glad to have one on my bike.


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

Jisch said:


> The best part is it didn't mess with the feel if the bike at all, I really didn't notice the weight or anything weird with the geometry.


You have the 100mm bluto?

My wallet curses at your positive bluto reviews.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, 100mm, it's only money.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I just install a 120mm Bluto on my Fatboy and it is amazing! Glad I didnt go shorter. I need to find a token though, i think it would help. Ive tired a few different pressures and you can blow thru travel easy. I added a token to my Pike and it was a big help so Im hoping 1 or two in the Bluto will do the same.


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

Jisch said:


> I took my Fatboy/Bluto out on a 10 mile ride this morning. The ride was full of intense rock gardens and screaming downhills. I have been reluctant to bring my fat bike on rides like this in the past, the necessity to slow down bugs me - I like going fast. I just put my dropper post back on - so I had a bit of an issue with seat positioning.
> 
> The Bluto definitely made the Fatboy a full bore machine. I found myself able to keep my fingers off the brakes and really crank through the rock gardens.
> 
> Definitely worth the money. So glad to have one on my bike.


My experience on my first big ride Friday is the same!!! roots, rocks, not quite as fast as my FS, but fast... and the fat tires changed the game with grip. and, it just a different kind of fun.


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## Forged1 (Dec 8, 2011)

Did you check air pressure?


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

Picked up my fatboy with the 80mm bluto, my LBS first install. The manual just addresses install in 50 languages. It is springy, seems limited in both compression and rebound damping and no info provided on what the doodads do. Is their a tuning manual that addresses the Bluto specifically, my LBS did not have one, and I see I am only getting ~2 inches of travel, and it is overly springy. Any suggestions on setup are appreciated, I don't blame my LBS, this is their first install. Thanks for any input.
Cheers,
FGO


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Red compression knob on the bottom of the fork controls how fast the fork rebounds, if its overly springy, turn the knob 3 or 4 clicks slower - there is a LOT of difference between full slow and full fast. If you're not getting full compression - then try letting a little air out, I'm running about 90PSI, I weigh about 170 with my gear on, I get full travel on big hits (though I don't feel the fork bottoming out). 

Those two things interact - so if your rebound is overly slow then you will not get full compression - I had that problem at first until I sped up the rebound.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

Thanks, I am doing a tuning run tomorrow, I can already tell that with not tuning it is much more capable in the stuff I ride in.
Thanks for the input, I will report back when I dial it in...


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

Couple things to consider. Most fat bike where not designed with a suspension fork in mind. Therefore the head angle could be off and preventing the fork from actually using all the travel. 

I am going to go way back and talk about when suspension forks first came out and people where saying the same thing that you are saying now. 

I have a trek farley and when the designed the bike they designed it with a suspension fork in mind so for me the fork has worked perfect your of the box. 

In the old days we only had 65mm travel forks which worked but when they finally offered 80mm forks it changed the head angle enough to actually make the fork work. 

Ps I could be totally wrong here but some fat bikes just don't have the right head tube angle to allow the fork to work correctly.


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

Way2ManyBikes said:


> Couple things to consider. Most fat bike where not designed with a suspension fork in mind. Therefore the head angle could be off and preventing the fork from actually using all the travel.
> ....
> 
> Ps I could be totally wrong here but some fat bikes just don't have the right head tube angle to allow the fork to work correctly.


What is the "right" head tube angle then?


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## Way2ManyBikes (Aug 24, 2011)

Not sure but the Farley has a 70 degree angle and if you read about the bike they built the entire geometry around a suspension fork. 

I was told buy the guys at Trek that they just copied the Geometry off of one of there current 29'r and just widened the rear triangle to make the 3.8 fit and the 4.0 barely fits with a 2x10 drivetrain. 

The Farley has the shortest rear chain stays out of any of the fat bikes which make it support short in its overall length which works great in the tight twisty single track trails. 

With the bluto on my bike it has now become the only bike i ride. 

Today I was forced to take a line I would have never I repeat never considered or even saw as a line but because I was riding faster them I have ever ridden and came up on a jogger it was either hit him or swerve to the right and hope for the best. Which I did and the bluto performed like magic and I didn't even notice all of the tree roots, wash outs and drops going down the hill all I did was aim between the two trees and smile.

Ps my buddy's 9 Zero 7 works incredible with the 100mm fork even thought specs say it should be an 80


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

Jisch said:


> I ride often at my local trail system, its five minutes from my house and I can get 10 miles of riding in when I don't have time to drive further.
> 
> I run Strava, I have a few KOMs out there, mostly because of the number of times I have ridden everything, sometimes the stars align. There's a nice switchback climb out there that I have been gunning for - today with the Fatboy and the Bluto I got the KOM back.
> 
> ...


Switchback climbs/descents are notorious for false start/finish point readings on Strava. It's usually because different levels of the track come too close to each other.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yep, and that could have happened here for sure, never trust strava.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

125psi and compression damping one click back from locked out... still not stiff enough for my tastes. (160 pounds of rider and gear) 

I'm gonna research adjusting the progressiveness. That's just some spacers right? Any suggestions?


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

The Bluto can use the black 32mm bottomless tokens, but the fork didnt come with any and I'm not sure they are available for sale yet. 

I know on my Pike the Bottomless tokens made a huge difference and I'd love to get 1 or two for the Bluto.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Hmmm, there 2014 rockshox spare parts catalog only lists bottomless tokens for the Pike.
https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign.../files/techdocs/2014_rockshox_spc_rev_a_0.pdf

But it seems if a token existed for a 32mm stanchion fork, it should work. This article makes it sound like such a token should exist and would work at least for the RS-1, reba, SID and revelation.
RockShox Officially Introduces The 29er specific RS1 Inverted XC Fork

I'll contact rockshox and see what they have to say. Edit: Looks like I won't be contacting them since SRAM appears to not want any direct contact with customers. In my opinion, that's a shitty way to run a company.


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## mgersib (Apr 9, 2004)

dfiler said:


> A few rides on the bluto now... 115psi is working for me (160 pounds with gear). The o-ring shows I've been bottoming it but I haven't felt it behave like it was bottoming.


You and I are in the same ball park. I have been surprised how much pressure I need to run to keep the fork from bottoming. I'll eventually try one or two bottomless tokens, but don't have them to try yet.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

mgersib said:


> You and I are in the same ball park. I have been surprised how much pressure I need to run to keep the fork from bottoming. I'll eventually try one or two bottomless tokens, but don't have them to try yet.


Yep, and i'm up 10 125psi with it still a bit too easy to bottom. I'll try bumping it up a bit more but tokens (a more progressive spring rate) would be preferable.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Do you guys have 100 or 120mm Bluto's? I'm 170 or so with my pack on and I'm at 95PSI. I've maxed the fork out on every ride so far, but I don't notice any dive while pedaling and haven't felt any true bottoming out of the fork. I'm one of those guys who sets and forgets though, so sometimes I change something and I realize just how off I was before. Maybe I'll try adding a bit of air.

Oh and I'm running a 100mm Bluto.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

The 32mm tokens wont be available until late August. 
I'm running the 120mm Bluto which doesnt come with any Pre-installed. The 100mm Bluto has 2 pre-installed and the 80mm version has 4, which is the max.

https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/95-4018-007-100_rev_a_bottomless_tokens_eeu.pdf


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Converting my 100 to 120 and also thinking of picking up the RCT3 Damper (I'm a suspension snob): http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...SIN=B006KV0QVG&linkCode=as2&tag=faqloadcom-20


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## R3D2 (Jun 26, 2007)

Which bike are you running the bluto on? I'm really interested in this swap too...please keep us posted.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^Specialized Fatboy Comp (medium).


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## ticketchecker (Mar 18, 2010)

leaning towards a 100mm for my AL Beargrease, gets me ready for eventual move to bucksaw


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Okay- got the air shaft to convert my 100 Bluto to 120, plus the RCT3 Damper. Anyone have any info on the conversion? Oil volumes/ weights? The "service manual" link from the SRAM page for the Bluto doesn't even have the Bluto listed on it. Treat it like a SID?


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

I went 20cc less oil than spec with the RTC3, 4 tokens, and 165lbs........I weigh 230


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

20cc less than what? I just found the 2015 service manual and it lists the Bluto and the oil volumes are the same for it as they are for the SID (with the RCT3), so I'm going to follow those levels.

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...ev_b_rockshox_oil_air_and_coil_chart_2015.pdf

Any other tips? I haven't worked on a RS fork in a while- pretty straight-forward?


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

20less than stock.......the easiest fork I ever worked on..took about 25 min to change it to an 80 from a 100


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Is the RTC3 damper worth it as an upgrade? I know upgrading to the Pike damper on my XC32 fork changed the ride and made it a lot better.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Go to sram.com click service at top of page click forks then go to page 5 for the newest bluto service manual


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Worth every penny.......stock bluto felt soft and slow


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Fat907- what grease did you use on the Air Shaft? I have some Slick Honey, but the manual says only the RS/ SRAM Butter, or some military grease. Seems like for 20 less than stock on the damper side, you could just pull the old damper and insert the new one without changing fluids... For the air shaft, seems like I just need to remove the rebound adjuster knob and lower bolt on non-drive-side, drain oil, remove the lowers, remove the retaining ring, pull the air shaft out, grease up the new one and install the bumper and floating seals from the old one, and re-install, then add fluids. That's it?


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

I bought the grease that they spec.....some military p-800 or something like that ..it's red and very tacky


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Fat907 said:


> Worth every penny.......stock bluto felt soft and slow


I will have to do this upgrade then. Have a 120mm Bluto coming on Sturgis Bullet, but swapping the Bullet to rigid and putting Bluto onto Bucksaw frame I ordered.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Fat907 said:


> I bought the grease that they spec.....some military p-800 or something like that ..it's red and very tacky


Any idea where you got it?


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## ticketchecker (Mar 18, 2010)

Fat907 said:


> 20less than stock.......the easiest fork I ever worked on..took about 25 min to change it to an 80 from a 100


curious why you went down to 80


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

As I understand it, every 10mm increased in fork extension equals ~1 degree decrease in head angle. So working from a 25% sag, compare that Bluto fork length to your stock fork length, consider how increased sag would affect the current feel of your bike, and go from there. 

In my experience, more is not always better, especially when you are adding suspension to a frame that is not suspension corrected. Most fat bikes are not going to be suspension corrected unless they are a fairly new design...

My Lurch arrives tomorrow, I'm probably swinging toward 80mm, 100mm if I want a little slack.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Are the air shafts the same on the Reba and Bluto? I have a 100mm Reba and 120mm Bluto coming and was wondering if I could switch the Reba 10 120mm and the Bluto to 100mm by swapping them?


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Nurse Ben said:


> As I understand it, every 10mm increased in fork extension equals ~1 degree decrease in head angle.


Every 10mm is equal to ~.5 degrees in HA. So 20mm in fork length decreases the HA ~1 degree.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I was close


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I’ve been running the Bluto around Moab for about 2 months. For me a front suspension fork was the one thing really preventing me from riding the fat bike in the dirt more. The Bluto really helps close the gap between just a snow bike and a bike I take on summer trails.
That said, I think it’s one of the worst feeling RS forks I’ve owned. With 90 psi well bellow the recommend pressure for my weight I find it’s super stiff and has tons of stiction. When I drop the pressure down to a point it moves on small to moderate size bumps it bottoms outs too easily.

I’m not very knowledgeable about suspension stuff. For those that are, do people think this is more of an issue related to the damper or rather a lack of lubrication?

Thanks

Here’s a picture since this thread is lacking.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Are you running any tokens? Which Bluto model do you have? 

I have the 120mm and it came stock with no tokens and I blew thru the travel and woudl bottom out hard on bigger drops. I now have two tokens installed and it is perfect. I was able to lower the pressure a bit which gives it even better small bump compliance, but it ramps up quicker and doesnt bottom as easy.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I don't even have my Bluto yet and have already ordered these, based on reviews and I weigh 240#.

Amazon.com : RockShox Pike Bottomless Tokens A1 Qty 3 : Sports & Outdoors

I may order up the damper as well but the fat bike fund is a little skimpy right now...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006KV0QVG/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3DZMBT0IIAXRS


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Those are the Pike tokens and wont fit! You need the black 32mm tokens. I had to order a 5pack thru my LBS.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Mr. Lynch said:


> Those are the Pike tokens and wont fit! You need the black 32mm tokens. I had to order a 5pack thru my LBS.


You are correct! Pike now has 35mm stanchions so they will not fit. Thankfully Amazon makes returns easy!


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## ticketchecker (Mar 18, 2010)

Running a 100mm Bluto on AL Beargrease for about two weeks now in Maine. Bunch of short rides and one good 25mile day up at Sugarloaf. Running around 85psi which is below recommended, still playing with pressure. Recommended was too stiff.

Haven't looked inside at the token assortment yet.

Next to my first set of disc brakes this might be the best bike upgrade ever for me, most likely will end up with a Bucksaw or King Kahn if that comes to production next year.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

pbasinger said:


> I've been running the Bluto around Moab for about 2 months. For me a front suspension fork was the one thing really preventing me from riding the fat bike in the dirt more. The Bluto really helps close the gap between just a snow bike and a bike I take on summer trails.
> That said, I think it's one of the worst feeling RS forks I've owned. With 90 psi well bellow the recommend pressure for my weight I find it's super stiff and has tons of stiction. When I drop the pressure down to a point it moves on small to moderate size bumps it bottoms outs too easily.
> 
> I'm not very knowledgeable about suspension stuff. For those that are, do people think this is more of an issue related to the damper or rather a lack of lubrication?
> ...


Same exact results here Pete!! I'm going to mess with the tokens when I can find some. Not a suspension guru here either.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

My son's bike has a 100mm Reba on it, I may just steal a token or two out of his for my 120mm Bluto once it gets here. He only weighs 70lbs so doesn't bottom anything out on his Horsethief. ;-) Per the RS chart here, the Reba should have two tokens from the factory -https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/95-4018-007-000_rev_a_bottomless_tokens.pdf


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## letitsnow (May 23, 2006)

pbasinger said:


> I've been running the Bluto around Moab for about 2 months. For me a front suspension fork was the one thing really preventing me from riding the fat bike in the dirt more. The Bluto really helps close the gap between just a snow bike and a bike I take on summer trails.
> That said, I think it's one of the worst feeling RS forks I've owned. With 90 psi well bellow the recommend pressure for my weight I find it's super stiff and has tons of stiction. When I drop the pressure down to a point it moves on small to moderate size bumps it bottoms outs too easily.
> 
> I'm not very knowledgeable about suspension stuff. For those that are, do people think this is more of an issue related to the damper or rather a lack of lubrication?
> ...


You've just described every RS fork that I've had in the past. Waiting for Fox...


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## winkster (Mar 28, 2012)

I went to 3 tokens total and that made a nice difference plus I am running a little lower pressure now. Before, 2 tokens and 100psi, now 3 tokens and 75 psi. I weigh 185 pounds and the ride has a nice plush feel without bottoming out easily.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Are people finding some of the Blutos are coming with no tokens? Anyone talk to RS or know whether they are supposed to have tokens?


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm 175 or so all loaded up to ride, I run about 95PSI, feels great, I bottom on the biggest hits, but most rides I come back with about 1/4" of travel unused. I don't feel any stiction at all, but that could just be me. I had my fork lose air once, but it seems to be holding now, which is a little weird.


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## OCDKV (Jul 7, 2014)

pbasinger said:


> Are people finding some of the Blutos are coming with no tokens? Anyone talk to RS or know whether they are supposed to have tokens?


80mm = 4 tokens
100mm = 2 tokens
120mm = 0 tokens

At least that is what is supposed to be with them according to manuals found here:

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...s/95-4018-007-000_rev_a_bottomless_tokens.pdf

and here

https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...en.0000000004694_rev_a_2015_bluto_reba_sm.pdf


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Jisch said:


> I had my fork lose air once, but it seems to be holding now, which is a little weird.


I did as well.


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Fitted a Bluto to my farley 6 few days ago...seems to be the same as some have found, im 180lbs tried it with recommended psi, and might as well have the ridged fork back on?! now at 85/90 psi seems more like it, but still doesn't seem quite right?


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## winkster (Mar 28, 2012)

andy586 said:


> Fitted a Bluto to my farley 6 few days ago...seems to be the same as some have found, im 180lbs tried it with recommended psi, and might as well have the ridged fork back on?! now at 85/90 psi seems more like it, but still doesn't seem quite right?


What travel fork are you working with? Try adding another token or two depending. I am running the Bluto at 100mm and have three tokens in there to get a great ride from it. I do however find it leaks down air after a ride some times, but only about 15psi. Not sure why the leak down happens as I have taken it apart and everything looks good. I have extra tokens if someone wants 1 or two.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

The biggest difference was changing from 10wt to 7.5wt.......running 4 tokens and 150 lbs of air...3 clicks out...RTC3


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

winkster said:


> What travel fork are you working with? Try adding another token or two depending. I am running the Bluto at 100mm and have three tokens in there to get a great ride from it. I do however find it leaks down air after a ride some times, but only about 15psi. Not sure why the leak down happens as I have taken it apart and everything looks good. I have extra tokens if someone wants 1 or two.


this ones running at 120mm at the mo... these "tokens" from rockshox spare parts??


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I ordered mine from my LBS. They come in a 5 pack and are black. I believe they are around $15 for 5. I ended up putting two in my 120mm Bluto (I'm 160 lbs) and it feels really nice. 

The 80mm comes with 4 installed, the 100mm has 2 and the 120 has zero.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I need to get some tokens, my bike w/ Bluto should be here at the end of the month or early November. I am 240# and have the 120mm version coming (on a Moto Sturgis Bullet). I have not found them online anywhere but will be heading to the LBS tomorrow and I will see if he can order me some.
I have not pulled the trigger on the RTC3 damper yet. Have it sitting in my cart in Amazon debating if my wife will shoot me if I order more parts. Maybe in a couple weeks she will have forgotten?


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

Mr. Lynch said:


> I ordered mine from my LBS. They come in a 5 pack and are black. I believe they are around $15 for 5. I ended up putting two in my 120mm Bluto (I'm 160 lbs) and it feels really nice.
> 
> The 80mm comes with 4 installed, the 100mm has 2 and the 120 has zero.


Okay just looked into these tokens, ie watched a few rockshox videos on YouTube  but I've the opposite problem, in that even though I'm running under pressure for my weight, the resistance still ramps up way to quickly and I'm getting nowhere near full travel ....any thoughts, or anyone else experience this??


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

What size Bluto do you have? If it is 100mm or 80mm you can remove tokens.


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## andy586 (Sep 28, 2014)

its a 120mm...well that's what's stated on the box


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

If anyone still wants to sell a token or two I would be happy to send them some green stuff!!


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Pm me. I have 3 left over....


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## ToucanLife (Jul 17, 2011)

Do you guys know if I can throw an XX hydro remote lockout off a 2012 SID into my Bluto?

I am assuming if I can put a RCT3 in there the XX will work too right?


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

letitsnow said:


> You've just described every RS fork that I've had in the past. Waiting for Fox...


Funny, I have never had a good experience with Fox. I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference. RS customer service has always been great. Fox, not terrible, but definitely more trouble and longer waits.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Thanks for the info / links. I have tokens and a new damper ordered.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Does anyone have a link for the proper rct3 damper that is in stock?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

bdundee said:


> Does anyone have a link for the proper rct3 damper that is in stock?


Isn't that the correct one in post 81?
If not...I think Universal has them


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

the mayor said:


> Isn't that the correct one in post 81?
> If not...I think Universal has them


Oops sorry it lazy and forgot to look back. I found 2 extra spacers if you need em, you could get them by sat or Friday.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

bdundee said:


> Oops sorry it lazy and forgot to look back. I found 2 extra spacers if you need em, you could get them by sat or Friday.


Spacers are supposed to be on the way....if not, I will ping you.
I might just drive to BC to the Race Face HQ and give someone a carbon beating.


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Not sure if anyone else saw this, but Borealis is sending out all their Bluto equipped bikes with the better damper.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

pbasinger said:


> Not sure if anyone else saw this, but Borealis is sending out all their Bluto equipped bikes with the better damper.


Where did you see this?
I have a 1/2 built Echo in my basement


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

the mayor said:


> Where did you see this?
> I have a 1/2 built Echo in my basement


The Borealis fb page.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'll reiterate my earlier posts about how I am not especially sensitive to stuff on my bike, but curious the reason for the upgraded damper? I have no complaints about the one in my Bluto, but now I seem to be thinking there's something wrong? HA!

I don't notice the Bluto at all, it does its job and I ride. I use all the travel about once every fourth ride, it doesn't bob too much when I stand and hammer, it doesn't pack up on fast hits or dive in big ones, not sure what else I'd be worried about. 

If someone can clue me in, my credit card finger is itchy...


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

dfiler said:


> Yep, and i'm up 10 125psi with it still a bit too easy to bottom. I'll try bumping it up a bit more but tokens (a more progressive spring rate) would be preferable.


Over two months later, my initial assessment hasn't changed. I'll be going to a local shop to get tokens. That is, unless someone has found an online source.

Any idea how much converting it from 100 to 120mm would cost?


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

Jisch said:


> I'll reiterate my earlier posts about how I am not especially sensitive to stuff on my bike, but curious the reason for the upgraded damper? I have no complaints about the one in my Bluto, but now I seem to be thinking there's something wrong? HA!
> 
> I don't notice the Bluto at all, it does its job and I ride. I use all the travel about once every fourth ride, it doesn't bob too much when I stand and hammer, it doesn't pack up on fast hits or dive in big ones, not sure what else I'd be worried about.
> 
> If someone can clue me in, my credit card finger is itchy...


I think many people won't have problems with the reg damper. If its not broke for you, I wouldn't fix it. Read back through the thread and you can see some of the complaints people have.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Pete could you sneak into Borealis and get the part number for the damper they are using


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Any idea how much converting it from 100 to 120mm would cost?


If you can do the work yourself, about $40 for the air shaft.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I have no issues with the regular damper, but I did install 2 tokens (120mm model). 
I jump mine quite a bit, hit drops and that and the fork has felt great. I'd really love to see a beefier Bluto though. Use the Pike damper and Stanchions. Maybe a Bluto XL or something.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Universal Cycles has the air shaft for $27, but unless you are buying enough to get free shipping it is probably better to get it locally.


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## dfiler (Feb 3, 2004)

Thanks. Think i'll order from them and skip buying more tokens for now. If 120mm stock setup is no tokens and my 100mm version has 2, it might work out perfectly. The new shaft will extend travel and also be more progressive if one or both tokens are left in.


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## projekt (Dec 9, 2009)

bdundee said:


> Does anyone have a link for the proper rct3 damper that is in stock?


You may get a RS #11.4015.544.270/280 SID A3 MoCo DNA RCT3 basevalve 2014 and a # 11.4018.025.002 SID A3 midvalve 27,5/29" 2014.

With some shim stack tuning you will get a decent fork.

They are in stock in Germany at Gabelprofi.de - Online Ersatzteilkatalog für RockShox und Avid , don't know about the US ...

- projekt


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

ToucanLife said:


> Do you guys know if I can throw an XX hydro remote lockout off a 2012 SID into my Bluto?
> 
> I am assuming if I can put a RCT3 in there the XX will work too right?


if you put the remote along with the xx damper it should work.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

projekt said:


> You may get a RS #11.4015.544.270/280 SID A3 MoCo DNA RCT3 basevalve 2014 and a # 11.4018.025.002 SID A3 midvalve 27,5/29" 2014.
> 
> With some shim stack tuning you will get a decent fork.
> 
> ...


You are the man!!! I was sitting at my lbs trying to decide which one to order along with the rebound damper and my email went off, perfect timing man thank you.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

dfiler said:


> Thanks. Think i'll order from them and skip buying more tokens for now. If 120mm stock setup is no tokens and my 100mm version has 2, it might work out perfectly. The new shaft will extend travel and also be more progressive if one or both tokens are left in.


Careful with the Universal Cycles ones- skip back a page or so in the thread- their listings are mis-marked. I bought one from them that apparently is the wrong air shaft.


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## letitsnow (May 23, 2006)

pbasinger said:


> Funny, I have never had a good experience with Fox. I think a lot of it comes down to personal preference. RS customer service has always been great. Fox, not terrible, but definitely more trouble and longer waits.


I've never had to deal with customer service from either company - just going off of how their forks work on bikes that I've had over the years. I'm sure that they both have good/bad points. Like you said - personal preference...


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## chriskmurray (Dec 29, 2013)

bdundee said:


> Pete could you sneak into Borealis and get the part number for the damper they are using


I am pretty sure it is QBP part number FK8671 if you want to retrofit your fork. The forks we are shipping with the RCT3 damper at Borealis are coming direct from RockShox already fitted with the RCT3 damper and also the dig valve. This is an OE only option so unfortunately you can not order a Bluto set up this way. I am only about 90% sure of the part number though, I am the wheel guy and far from a suspension guy. I do know oil volumes change slightly as well but I am not sure of exactly how much. Slowerthansnot has swapped a lot of these and is our main fork guy so he might know off the top of his head.

I would like to clarify, ONLY the XX1 builds are shipping with RCT3 forks, I will copy and paste the facebook post below.

"Since all of us here at Borealis want you riding on the best of the best products, we are excited to announce that all XX1 Echo bikes will now come stock with the upgraded RCT3 damper for the Rockshox Bluto fork!

There will be NO price increase for this, and we guarantee you that you will notice an extremely improved ride quality with this high quality damper. Enjoy, fat bikers!!"

"this does include the RCT3 damper AND the Dig Valve from RockShox. https://www.sram.com/rockshox/technologies/dig-valve"

Hope this helps!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

chriskmurray said:


> I am pretty sure it is QBP part number FK8671 if you want to retrofit your fork. The forks we are shipping with the RCT3 damper at Borealis are coming direct from RockShox already fitted with the RCT3 damper and also the dig valve. This is an OE only option so unfortunately you can not order a Bluto set up this way. I am only about 90% sure of the part number though, I am the wheel guy and far from a suspension guy.


Oh crap I ordered the the fk8670 per the other dude but I did order a new rebound damper that matches it so maybe that combo is good to go anyways.


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## chriskmurray (Dec 29, 2013)

bdundee said:


> Oh crap I ordered the the fk8670 per the other dude but I did order a new rebound damper that matches it so maybe that combo is good to go anyways.


hmmm, I honestly have no idea what the difference between the two would be but again, I am not a suspension guy.

I would not be surprised if both work fine though.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Some good reading here.http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/converting-reba-rl-29-rct3-solo-air-2014-a-902664.html


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

*My .02 on how to make the bluto awesome*

Your mileage may very on what frame/bike you are running in on.... and as a fyi i'm 6'3" about 200lbs and i've only ridden the bluto on a borrealis echo and Rocky Mtn blizzard...

I think the stock grease has tons of drag so i like running slick honey.

think the 100mm air shaft and travel is best suited to the 32mm stations.

The rct3 damper is an improvement over the RL damper but more so is the dig valve on the lover damping rod and seems to have a wider adjustment over the rl valve...

on the air side i really like 3 tokens and being on the low side of the air pressures recommended by RS ....

At some point i'd really like to get my hands on a old school u-turn spring for shits and giggles to ditch the air side and not have to worry about loosing air in the cold temps


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Thanks, I'm going to try the Slick Honey for sure when I take it apart to change both dampers. Also I'm only about 15 pounds lighter and I am really liking the three tokens in the 100mm as well.


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## chriskmurray (Dec 29, 2013)

bdundee said:


> Some good reading here.http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/converting-reba-rl-29-rct3-solo-air-2014-a-902664.html


Thanks for the link!

I also am a big fan of 3 air tokens but I tend to run pressures on the high side of the official recommendations but that is coming from about 3 years riding almost only rigid.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

I'm going from 80mm to 120mm this weekend, I weigh 190 and tend to carry some gear for overnighting. Any suggestions on number of air tokens I should go with. I don't like to run to high of pressure, but with adding 40mm, I don't know what to expect on my fatboy.
Thanks,


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Well I switched to the rct3 damper and the new rebound damper and lovin it kinda. The slick honey on the air side sure seemed to get rid of any stiction so that is a must. Like stated about the rct3 function is meh but the combination of the damper and new rebound damper seem pretty sweet. The only thing is my lockout still sucks poo, maybe even worse that it was. It is so much easier to check and get an accurate sag measurement now, pretty butter smooth. Trail testing to come.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Kinda the same here....the lock out never really seems to work like other forks that I have had....spongey at best


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## ishpeming (Feb 23, 2012)

from those on here more expert than I what can I expect about winter performance from my new Bluto? I've heard everything from you cannot use it in winter and have to get a second fork to it will be fine, to you have to make modifications so it will work in the cold. What is the truth or do we wait until cold comes and find out?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fat907 said:


> Kinda the same here....the lock out never really seems to work like other forks that I have had....spongey at best


OK thanks I have had the damper out twice now to see if there was something wrong, I will stop and ride now


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## OCDKV (Jul 7, 2014)

ishpeming said:


> from those on here more expert than I what can I expect about winter performance from my new Bluto? I've heard everything from you cannot use it in winter and have to get a second fork to it will be fine, to you have to make modifications so it will work in the cold. What is the truth or do we wait until cold comes and find out?


I'm certainly no expert but I'll add my .02 cents to this.

It will absolutely depend on where you live, the type of winter riding you do and the type of winter your area of the world is having. In other words everyone is going to have a different opinion/need/objective/use for their Bluto.

If your winters are mild and you envision hitting the same sort of trails you would in the summer, then leave it as is.

If your winters are cold and your hitting the rough stuff then at the very least change the shock oil to a lower viscosity.

If your just doing relatively light trails, commuting, or winter bike-packing then perhaps a rigid fork is all you really need and you wont be exposing your Bluto to road salt/sand/dirty slush.

Bottom line is there won't be a right or wrong answer, but there will be plenty of opinions. You said it yourself "wait until the cold comes and find out". At least you know you have some options.

Good luck.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

^^That was a whole lotta typing just to say " I don't know"

Bottom line.....there are millions of regular Rock Shox suspension forks used during the winter.
None have exploded in a ball of flames.
And the planet is still spinning.
I would bet money the Blutos will be just fine with winter....just fine


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I've been riding through the winter here in Connecticut (NE USA) for 20+ years on all brands of forks. I would love to say that none had issues, there were some early elastomer based shocks that turn to rocks in the winter. I've had air seals let go from the cold too, but things are definitely better now than they used to be. Once you get below 0F things start to get funky, but that's a rarity around here.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Fat907 said:


> Kinda the same here....the lock out never really seems to work like other forks that I have had....spongey at best


That's because it's more of a heavy blow off valve than it is a true lock out.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fat907 said:


> Kinda the same here....the lock out never really seems to work like other forks that I have had....spongey at best


So I had to just take it apart one more time..... Well in the RS 2015 pdf they say it takes 106ml of oil or 71mm down from the top of the crown, in my fork at least those two do not even come close to being the same. I added oil and brought it up to the 71mm and everything is working sweet now. I get full travel, the lockout works, the low speed compression makes a difference, and I can tell a difference in platforms. The only thing is I ended up adding at least another 45ml of oil or more (didn't keep track on the exact amount) and that is a lot. I did call rs and he is going to talk to some service people and see what they say and get back to me, I hope.


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

bdundee said:


> So I had to just take it apart one more time..... Well in the RS 2015 pdf they say it takes 106ml of oil or 71mm down from the top of the crown, in my fork at least those two do not even come close to being the same. I added oil and brought it up to the 71mm and everything is working sweet now. I get full travel, the lockout works, the low speed compression makes a difference, and I can tell a difference in platforms. The only thing is I ended up adding at least another 45ml of oil or more (didn't keep track on the exact amount) and that is a lot. I did call rs and he is going to talk to some service people and see what they say and get back to me, I hope.


Thats what i would have done if lockout wasnt working =)


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Guess it will come apart ONE more time...lol


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fat907 said:


> Guess it will come apart ONE more time...lol


Keep me posted of your findings.

One thing I learned is never test it before both knobs are fully installed and the little black nut thingie is tightened. The low speed compression will shoot straight out and one will be looking for a spring and a couple of very small ball bearings


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

bdundee....did you check the oil level before you took it apart to change dampers?
This is the first fork I haven't taken apart before riding.
Almost every new fork I've ever taken apart had too little ( sometimes none!) or too much oil....among other surprises


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

the mayor said:


> bdundee....did you check the oil level before you took it apart to change dampers?
> This is the first fork I haven't taken apart before riding.
> Almost every new fork I've ever taken apart had too little ( sometimes none!) or too much oil....among other surprises


No but sure wished I would have.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Hmmm....I got my first real ride in. I have some sort of rattleup front.
Sounds like a loose headset...but the headset is tight
Wondering if it's something loose in the fork.
Or...is the carbon frame amplifying a rattle from somewhere else


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

the mayor said:


> Hmmm....I got my first real ride in. I have some sort of rattleup front.
> Sounds like a loose headset...but the headset is tight
> Wondering if it's something loose in the fork.
> Or...is the carbon frame amplifying a rattle from somewhere else


loose maxle? brake caliper?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Oh and SlowerThenSnot you where spot on with getting rid of that red grease crap and using slick honey, so much smoother now!!


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## Coneheadthebarbituit (Sep 13, 2014)

Where do you apply the Slick Honey? I assume to just the piston on the air shaft but I'm not sure. Thanks.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Coneheadthebarbituit said:


> Where do you apply the Slick Honey? I assume to just the piston on the air shaft but I'm not sure. Thanks.


I lubed up the whole air shaft, the piston, and just a little on top of the piston for good measures


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## ToucanLife (Jul 17, 2011)

Ok boys - I put the XX hydro lockout damper on - loving it! Feels a bit better

Is there an upgraded rebound damper available as well?

Would I just order the 2014 SID rebound damper or will that be the same part? 26" or the 27/29"?


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## Lu-Max (Feb 17, 2011)

I contacted my LBS about doing this mod to my Bluto, parts & labor quote is $225.

I am considering DIY, but I have never taken a fork apart, ever. So I'm more than a bit apprehensive about screwing it up. Fair price or do you think I should give it a shot? 

Any special tools required?


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## ishpeming (Feb 23, 2012)

Lu-Max, Exactly what mods were quoted at your LBS. This thread has mentioned several. Thank you


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Not sure why you guys are running such low pressure

I'm 120mm with 1 token - 175lbs - running 110psi with 15% sag and using 90% of my travel on a single track ride with no jumps

I also have an XX remote lockout on it which may help as the cartridge is different even in open mode - I checked my oil levels and they were to spec

I set my air pressure to 80psi at the start since I read here people were having issues - and I could bottom it out in my driveway - this fork is using the same air pressure as my SID WC

After some slick honey on the seals - this fork is buttery smooth - smoother than my SID


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

broadwayline said:


> Not sure why you guys are running such low pressure
> 
> I'm 120mm with 1 token - 175lbs - running 110psi with 15% sag and using 90% of my travel on a single track ride with no jumps


About the same as I was running (120 psi @ 185# and 10% sag) I would use all my travel on jumps but the small bump compliance sucked poo so I tried lowering it as well and it didn't work for me either. Since the new compression, rebound damper, and the slick honey same psi but the sag went to 20%, still no real trail time but initial tests are good.


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

Oh now I am confused on what to get - the XX remote lockout damper or the RCT3? I have the RCT3 damper already in my Amazon cart but now I am thinking XX???

I am 240# and want to add a couple tokens to my 120mm Bluto also.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I'm not a big remote lockout fan. I like having the ability to add a few clicks of damping over full open or full lock. I'm on the stock RL and I'll lock it out on the pavement, run it in the middle for rolling terrain and go full open on the rougher stuff.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Swapping to 7.5wt oil tonight in my 120mm with RCT3 compression damper - will report back how much it helps


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

When I first did the swap I put 20cc less oil but have since went back to stock height while using the 7.5........... I really like the change


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## funnyjr (Oct 31, 2009)

-5 degrees celcius and can feel my SID rct 3 stiffening up both slow compression/ rebound. I put my money on Bluto not working when temps dip below -30 without fluid mods


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

7.5wt made a huge difference for me - had to add 1 click of rebound to account for it but its smooth as butter in -1*C 

Small bump compliance improved a lot


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

It was the best change I made........better than RCT3 even .....now play with the amount of tokens


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## Coneheadthebarbituit (Sep 13, 2014)

Perhaps these forks valving work totally different than snowmobile shocks (which I am very familiar with as far as tuning) but normally in a snowmobile shock a change to the weight of the oil only has a noticeable feel difference to the rebound as shock speeds are much less during the rebound stroke. Is this the type of change you noticed Fat907? Also, I read somewhere that Salsa doesn't advise changing from the 100mm to the 120mm. Why would this be? I'm new to all this bike suspension stuff. Thanks.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fat907 said:


> It was the best change I made........better than RCT3 even .....now play with the amount of tokens


Did you ever get the lockout to work?


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Lockout works....but not a true lockout,it still moves about 4 or 5mm...it got noticeably smoother with the 7.5, it goes thru the travel more easily..but that could be from the slick honey....I did both mods at the same time.....RCT3 was the first mod other than changing to the 80mm SID air shaft...rebound is quicker but not boingy ...I'm 3 clicks out and 4 tokens.......230lbs


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am going to hold off on ordering the RCT3 damper - the bike budget is pretty well toasted until next year if I don't want to end up a 40something single. ;-)

I did order a set of bottomless tokens. I got to ride my Bluto tonight and I didn't have any problems with it. Granted the biggest bump I hit was off a curb (riding in parking lot at work - my Sturgis Bullet came today!).


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Just did the air shaft last night, moving mine from 100 to 120. I did the RCT3 Damper a week or two ago, but I'm currently without cranks, so I haven't had it out. When doing the air shaft last night, I opted for 10wt oil- heard some of you doing 7.5, and they recommended 15, so I split the difference . Now, I'm wondering, you guys are talking about 7.5 in the upper with the damper, aren't you? I was surprised that it's only 5ml of fluid in both lowers and would be amazed if the weight of the fluid made much of a difference down there. Also used Slick Honey instead of the military grease. I'm 175 kitted up and couldn't get the fork to sag much (looking for about 20+%) without dropping it to below 100psi. Still, it will be a bit before I get the bike back together, and now it's cold, so I imagine I won't be able to pick up on subtle changes much other than how it affects geometry.

One of the easiest forks I've ever worked on.


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## smthgfshy (Nov 11, 2010)

I've never had any type of suspension before and am looking at a Bluto for a friend. He's 230#, 6'3" and it's going on a 20" Chinese carbon frame. 

Which Bluto would you recommend? After reading this thread it looks as if most folks are having success by switching dampers, adding magical tokens, stealing Poo's honey, and lowering viscosity. I'll suggest those fixes later if he doesn't like the performance. Until then, for his body size, what's gonna be best for him (80, 100, or 120)?


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Recommended is 106ml of 5wt in the uppers and 10ml of 15wt in the bottom........we are changing to 7.5 instead of the 5wt....bottom stays the same


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fat907 said:


> Recommended is 106ml of 5wt in the uppers and 10ml of 15wt in the bottom........we are changing to 7.5 instead of the 5wt....bottom stays the same


The chart actually says 5ml 15wt in each lower or are you just saying total?


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Total.....my bad


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Huh. I guess I figured you guys were going to lower viscosity, not higher. When I swapped out my damper to the RCT3, I used the 106ml of 5wt that was recommended. In the lowers, 5ml of 10wt (instead of 15wt). Slick Honey on the lowers and on the air shaft instead of the red military grease. It's been super cold, so hard to know exactly how it will feel in warmer temps, but so far, it feels WAY better than it did at 100/ stock setup. I also pulled out the one token that was in there, but may end up putting that back in to keep the psi a little lower and small bump sensitivity up, while not blowing through travel on bigger hits.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

Rode my 21lb Jet9 RDO ther other night - the Bluto with RCT3 / 7.5wt at 120mm is SO MUCH SMOOTHER than my WC SID at 100mm 

It made my Jet that is normally super cushy feel like a buck board in comparison 

Big difference over the stock Bluto as you can imagine - small bump is super cushy

Next thing is replace the stock red air shaft grease with some slick honey


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## pbasinger (Dec 5, 2004)

I ended up with a new fork, changed out to the nicer damper and it felt better, but still had the feeling it was way too stiff when I pumped it up to a pressure where it wouldn't bottom out. Added 2 tokens for a total of 4 and that made a huge difference. Can run it at 85 psi and no bottom out.

I have no real conclusion on the best way to tune this fork, but I think I would start with adding tokens and additional lube to the lowers before dropping the money on the damper.


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## crohnsy (Sep 11, 2009)

How's everyone doing with temps below freezing?

My fork seems to be getting stuck down on the cold rides...


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Slick honey..........works like magic


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

Do you have to remove the lowers to add tokens and replace the red grease with Slick-Honey on the air side or can you just do it from the top of the air side? 

If just doing these, Does the travel stay the same (120)

Thanks


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Not to add tokens but yes for the grease.....no travel change


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## Coneheadthebarbituit (Sep 13, 2014)

Drain off air and unscrew non-drive side top to add/remove token (24 mm socket, quick & easy). Change of damper is the same except its the drive side top that simply needs to be unscrewed (24mm socket, quick & easy)

You'll need to disassemble fork to get to air shaft (non drive side) and clean military grease off air shaft & piston. You'll need to disassemble fork to get to any rebound damping changes (drive side).


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

I have a 120mm Bluto which came with a lockout lever. I have replaced the cable three times as it slips on me mid ride and the little set screw has crushed the cable. Its weird that if you release the cable it spins to locked out instead of wide open.

Anyway, my question is can I get the simpler blue compression adjuster knob instead and lose the silly lockout lever and drive side top cap altogether? anyone know the part number?


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

SRALPH said:


> I have a 120mm Bluto which came with a lockout lever. I have replaced the cable three times as it slips on me mid ride and the little set screw has crushed the cable. Its weird that if you release the cable it spins to locked out instead of wide open.
> 
> Anyway, my question is can I get the simpler blue compression adjuster knob instead and lose the silly lockout lever and drive side top cap altogether? anyone know the part number?


I do not know the part numbers, but you could get the upgraded damper listed above - the part numbers are listed. Or I could swap you mine- I have two Bluto forks and kind of want to try the remote lockout on one, but given the problems you are having maybe I don't want to try it. 

Three bottomless tokens seems to be right for me - at 122or so PSI I am really liking the way it rides. I have some slick honey but will probably wait to do that until I do my spring tear down. I may do it sooner if I have any problems with it sticking in the cold but did 30 miles of single track this weekend in sub freezing temps and had no problems at all (other than cold toes).


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## prebonked (Nov 21, 2006)

*Lockout question*



Destr0 said:


> I do not know the part numbers, but you could get the upgraded damper listed above - the part numbers are listed. Or I could swap you mine- I have two Bluto forks and kind of want to try the remote lockout on one, but given the problems you are having maybe I don't want to try it.
> 
> Three bottomless tokens seems to be right for me - at 122or so PSI I am really liking the way it rides. I have some slick honey but will probably wait to do that until I do my spring tear down. I may do it sooner if I have any problems with it sticking in the cold but did 30 miles of single track this weekend in sub freezing temps and had no problems at all (other than cold toes).


Do any of you guys with the remote lockout have an issue with it not quite locking out completely? When mine is locked, with cable disconnected(lockout knob sprung to locked position)it out it still moves quite a bit, 30mm just with my weight(180lbs)seated. Air pressure is correct. Maybe they are just this way?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

prebonked said:


> Do any of you guys with the remote lockout have an issue with it not quite locking out completely? When mine is locked, with cable disconnected(lockout knob sprung to locked position)it out it still moves quite a bit, 30mm just with my weight(180lbs)seated. Air pressure is correct. Maybe they are just this way?


If you have that much movement....the first thing I would check is oil levels.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

the mayor said:


> If you have that much movement....the first thing I would check is oil levels.


Yup this ^^^^ on the damper side.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

bdundee said:


> Yup this ^^^^ on the damper side.


I think ^^^this guy^^^^ gives good details earlier in the thread.
Or maybe it was a different thread. I'm too lazy to look.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Just for posterity's sake, I'm running my Bluto at 120 with the RCT3 damper, Slick Honey and NO air tokens inside. I'm about 175 kitted up and I have it set at factory psi (can't remember right now). I have the compression dialed all the way back/ open and rebound up 3/4 way (towards fast), and when the lockout is open, I just about get full travel and the fork feels quite good (for what it is).


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

Which is the right setting to use for oil? The oil level height or the amount used?


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

Quick question/test for Bluto owners.

Do you hear a click when you compress/uncompress your fork?

The test:
-get off the bike
-compress the front fork by pressing on the handlebars
-let the fork rebound and listen for a click once the fork is completely uncompressed

It might be easier to reproduce with the rebound speed set to the fastest setting. My fork makes an audible 'click' sound every time. I'm wondering what the clicking is and if it's a problem that I should have checked out.

Thanks.

*EDIT: WAS THE STEM. FALSE ALARM.*


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

Adding a quick and crappy video of the clicking sound:


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I'm loving my Bluto so far, but I really hope Rockshox releases a "Pluto" fork. A Bluto but with Pike size stanchions and internals!


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

Aceldama said:


> Quick question/test for Bluto owners.
> 
> Do you hear a click when you compress/uncompress your fork?
> 
> ...


I don't have that click. Been riding BLUTO since July.


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

I called my shop and they're going to contact SRAM about it and get back to me.


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

Update to my 'issue'. It was the stem, I'm an idiot... carry on...


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Aceldama said:


> Update to my 'issue'. It was the stem, I'm an idiot... carry on...


This is why I drink, it gives me a good reason for being a screw up.


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## Aceldama (Jan 18, 2005)

Good idea...


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## MUSTCLIME (Jan 26, 2004)

bdundee said:


> This is why I drink, it gives me a good reason for being a screw up.


Better a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy......


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

anyone got an extra token or two they want to sell me? pm if so..


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

My RCT3 Damper seems to no longer be locking out or changing damping at all regardless of where it is set (open/ climb/ lockout). I haven't had a chance to check oil levels or the like, but thought I'd post here just to gather ideas/ experience from others.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

alshead said:


> My RCT3 Damper seems to no longer be locking out or changing damping at all regardless of where it is set (open/ climb/ lockout). I haven't had a chance to check oil levels or the like, but thought I'd post here just to gather ideas/ experience from others.


I think you already nailed it with the fluid level.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Was it working when you installed it


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## SlowerThenSnot (Jul 16, 2004)

alshead said:


> My RCT3 Damper seems to no longer be locking out or changing damping at all regardless of where it is set (open/ climb/ lockout). I haven't had a chance to check oil levels or the like, but thought I'd post here just to gather ideas/ experience from others.


More then likely oil level..... rct3 seems to be very sensitive to that


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

But a change in oil level means a leak somewhere then.....check bottom bolts for a good seal and no drips ..may need to change crush washers


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Right now I have the 100mm Bluto on my Framed Minnesota 3.0. I have issues with it bottoming out easy. So would my first step be to add another black token ? I have not opened it up, but it should have 2 of them? so adding one more would make 3 ?


I am 250 before gear so around 260. I have 155 in the shock but did not want to go any more for a few reasons.


Thanks


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I weigh 240, 250+ geared up and I went from zero to three tokens in my 120mm Bluto to get it from bottoming out while still having small bump compliance. I would say add a token or two. Only takes about 5 minutes to swap them out - I started with two, then went to three. I am probably going to try a fourth once it gets warm again and I start riding harder. 
I have the RCT3 damper and more tokens to add to my 100mm Bluto as well - but still waiting on my Bucksaw frame to get here. If you want to run that low of pressure, I would put in the max (four) tokens at the start. I believe I am running 200# in my Bluto with the three tokens. Before the tokens at 200PSI I would bottom out, 220 I would not bottom out easily but the fork was very stiff and didn't move very well on smaller bumps.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> More then likely oil level..... rct3 seems to be very sensitive to that


Thanks, Dave- that's what I've heard.

I also picked up the Borealis/ Turnagain ETR/ O-Ring kit and plan on installing that in the next few days, so I'll have the whole fork apart either way. I don't think I'm getting fluid loss at all, but it's possible that with the colder temps, the fluid isn't flowing well and so the damper is acting like it doesn't have enough. Or something.


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## Steve Javorsky (Jul 22, 2014)

Ok, so my awesome friend at one of my LBS gave me 2 black tokens. I put them in, I now have 4.

After seeing what they are, I want to know what they do, and how they work ??


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## Destr0 (Aug 15, 2014)

I am not sure how they work, but they make the spring rate more progressive. Air forks are more progressive than spring forks, but lots of technology and tuning has gone into air forks to make them more linear like a coil fork. This takes some of that away and makes it more progressive (harder to compress the farther down the travel it goes).

As for the science behind it, I have no idea other than changing the air volume, like how changing oil levels or adding spacers was done on previous air forks to get the progressiveness where you wanted it.
I know from experience that it makes a difference and works. I just don't really know how.


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

Steve Javorsky said:


> Ok, so my awesome friend at one of my LBS gave me 2 black tokens. I put them in, I now have 4.
> 
> After seeing what they are, I want to know what they do, and how they work ??


I imagine they just reduce the air volume in the fork while leaving the travel the same. in effect you can start with a lower air pressure for initial stroke and because of the lower volume of air, the pressure builds more quickly proportional to the stroke so you end with the same max pressure at the bottom of the stroke.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

SlowerThenSnot said:


> More then likely oil level..... rct3 seems to be very sensitive to that


Stink. I pulled the RCT3 damper last night and, sure enough, oil was low. I topped it off and re-assembled, but the damper still isn't locking out. I assume the oil level is the same for the RCT3 damper as with the stock damper (service manual says RL and RLT are 71-77mm from top of crown surface - as opposed to 64-70mm for the RL3)?

Any other thoughts from anyone?

No leaking/ fluid loss apparent anywhere. Pogo stick fork on climbs...


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

My buddy's Bluto wont fully extend the last 20%.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

kntr said:


> My buddy's Bluto wont fully extend the last 20%.


There is too much pressure in the lower leg. Open the air side bottom hex screw and release the pressure from the bottom side of the fork (there is a schrader valve inside the leg). This is the quick (but not the permanent) solution.

I recommend to open the whole fork and change the factory grease (red sticky pm800 military grease) to eg. Slick Honey.


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

Wow I must just be lucky because I never touched my bluto and I think it's great. We'll, I did one ride and didn't use enough travel, so I let a little air out. Done. I may have also opened up the rebound just a hair on the first ride but I don't even recall. Haven't felt the need to touch it since, or even think about it.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

I moved to fatbikes from full susp bike with quality susp parts. Riding the stock Bluto was a bit of a shock and hence I updated my 100 mm Bluto to 120 mm with RCT3, Slick Honey and Redline fork oil and now I'm finally happy. IMO this is how RS should ship Blutos.


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## Charlie Cheswick (Apr 16, 2009)

I had a problem with my bluto from the get go. After my first ride the 100mm had sucked down to about 70mm. So I had to take the bike back to the shop. The mechanic thought it might just be the cold air making it contract but I thought that sounded stupid. After leaving the bike there overnight they told me they had to pump up the pressure really high because they thought it was grease clogging the valve that controls the air between the positive and negative chamber. It's been working fine since but still not too sure about the explanation.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Edit: RCT3 damper and DigValve rebound damper sold.

Phenomenal upgrade though!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

alshead said:


> Stink. I pulled the RCT3 damper last night and, sure enough, oil was low. I topped it off and re-assembled, but the damper still isn't locking out. I assume the oil level is the same for the RCT3 damper as with the stock damper (service manual says RL and RLT are 71-77mm from top of crown surface - as opposed to 64-70mm for the RL3)?
> 
> Any other thoughts from anyone?
> 
> No leaking/ fluid loss apparent anywhere. Pogo stick fork on climbs...


Sounds to me like you're still too low on oil.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

alshead said:


> Any other thoughts from anyone?


I assume that while pushing the damper in to the fork, it's possible that the shim stack rotates (not a fact, only my assumption) somehow so that the lock-out doesn't work, even though one has the correct oil level in the fork. So, take the RCT3 damper out from the fork again and keep it in your hands, then try to rotate the shim stack part of it (the most bottom part) while pulling it apart simultaneously (the spring resists this). Pay attention what rotating does and try to find a position, where the shim stack rests well and is properly aligned to the damper. You can also try the lock-out by using the lock-out ring and rotating it.

Then, be careful while pushing the damper back to the fork (no excessive force needed) and after the assembly, push the fork all the way down and back up slooow-ly a couple of times (if needed, take out some pressure from the air side, to do this) so that the oil really flows through the damper. Do this with the lock-out fully open, in pedal position and fully closed.

I ended up having the same no lock-out problem with my RCT3 once and above mentioned helped to resolve it. During one push-in, the fork stiffened and the lock-out started to work again. As a side note, the fork does not lock 100 % and I assume this is expected behaviour.

PS. Remember to attach the lock-out ring with the "ring nut" before pushing the fork down - it's not nice to try to find two little steel balls and one little spring from your shop floor after the needle in the middle of the damper has popped out.. (been there, done that )


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

villho said:


> PS. Remember to attach the lock-out ring with the "ring nut" before pushing the fork down - it's not nice to try to find two little steel balls and one little spring from your shop floor after the needle in the middle of the damper has popped out.. (been there, done that )


Dood I soooooo did that with mine


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Been there..........


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

villho said:


> I assume that while pushing the damper in to the fork, it's possible that the shim stack rotates (not a fact, only my assumption) somehow so that the lock-out doesn't work, even though one has the correct oil level in the fork. So, take the RCT3 damper out from the fork again and keep it in your hands, then try to rotate the shim stack part of it (the most bottom part) while pulling it apart simultaneously (the spring resists this). Pay attention what rotating does and try to find a position, where the shim stack rests well and is properly aligned to the damper. You can also try the lock-out by using the lock-out ring and rotating it.
> 
> Then, be careful while pushing the damper back to the fork (no excessive force needed) and after the assembly, push the fork all the way down and back up slooow-ly a couple of times (if needed, take out some pressure from the air side, to do this) so that the oil really flows through the damper. Do this with the lock-out fully open, in pedal position and fully closed.
> 
> ...


Okay- this is awesome. I was just getting on to share my latest findings.  So, I pulled the damper out again (before seeing your post) and remembered that when I had it out the first time, I pulled on the shim stack and it was possible when it went back in, it didn't line up right. SO- I started playing with it. On what I assume is the Shim Stack, there are little detents- when you turn the lockout, you can see some of these detents in the aluminum plate just below a black plastic plate that has cutouts on opposite sides. As you rotate the lockout lever, the Shim Stack/ Aluminum plate with detents rotates, exposing different combinations of the detents. Most of the detents are just small, circular pockets/ holes (but don't go all the way through the aluminum), but one is a larger cavity. I lined it up so that "Open" position was over the largest cavity and put it back together. I now have lockout in the lockout position, but "pedal" position basically also feels locked out (a little less than full lockout) and the "open" position has some compression, but doesn't feel like as much as it used to.

Does anyone know the proper alignment for those detents in the open position? It's also possible that I topped off the oil a little too high (thinking fluid level was the problem) and this is the proper alignment. Slowerthansnot- any insight here?

Sorry I don't have any pics. I'll probably pull it apart later tonight and I'll try to snap a couple.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

With 2 tokens I'm very happy with the Bluto performance. Bombed down a rough 20 minutes descent yesterday in the snow and I thought the fork did a great job. If anything I'd like to see a Pluto (Pike plus Bluto), something stiffer and more capable!


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Not detents at all- they're holes.









I think I know how it's supposed to line up, but it's still not locking out when I put it together. 

There are two types of mountain bikers. Those who are faster than me, and me.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Just thought I'd share my experience with the bluto. It's been cold lately, a few 20 degree or less rides, and the fork has been feeling awful. It just feels "dead" soft and wasn't rebounding fast enough for me.
I pulled the lowers, greased and lubed the seals and foam rings. I generally use a 10/30 high grade motor oil as lower lube, and motorex prep-m for sliding parts and seals. I also disassembled the air spring and used prep-m on everything in there. I dumped the damper oil and replaced it with a cocktail of 20cc 5 wt, and the rest 2.5 to. Get an oil height of about 75mm.
What a difference! I can now run the damper adjustments in the middle positions and everything feels great. 
I'm very aggressive 200lb rider, who likes to jump things on the trail. I'm running 2 tokens at 105 psi, and I like light compression with fast rebound.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^Nice! Great report. I think the stock grease is absolutely horrible for cold temps. Hell, I thought it was bad in warmer temps. My fork was kinda sticky right out of the box, but a rebuild with Slick Honey and it felt worlds better.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I was out in 0f the other night, with the slick honey and the stock oil weight and the rebound on the fast side I thought it was working great.


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## krapper (Jan 4, 2015)

Thanks for this thread. My fork was rigid at 5 F the other day, swapped the stock grease for slick honey and I had suspension today at 5 F. 

Doing the rebuild, I had a bear of a time with the snap ring. Finally got it out. The other thing I almost bodged up was the 5 ml of oil in each leg. I was happily torquing the hex bolts at the base of the fork leg and luckily I remembered I hadn't put any in. doh!


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Rode mine today at 11F smooth as a baby's a,,


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fat907 said:


> Rode mine today at 11F smooth as a baby's a,,


My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after a month on it I went back to Bluto and it's staying on.


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## matto6 (Dec 28, 2013)

bdundee said:


> My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after a month on it I went back to Bluto and it's staying on.


My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after being too lazy to swap forks and riding the bluto in the snow a few times, it's staying on.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

matto6 said:


> My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after being too lazy to swap forks and riding the bluto in the snow a few times, it's staying on.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to matto6 again.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

Sold my carver carbon so I wouldn't be temped......lol


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## Ohfugit (Jul 10, 2009)

I have a similar setup and am going to at least try it.
Good to see the successful rebuild info on the Bluto.



matto6 said:


> My original plan was to go back to the carbon fork for winter but after being too lazy to swap forks and riding the bluto in the snow a few times, it's staying on.


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## Cody01 (Jul 23, 2014)

I fitted my bike with a 100mm Bluto because that's what was in stock when I went to buy. I just purchased a 120mm Bluto equipped bike for my wife and I want it the other way around. Is it easy to change the parts over over should I have a shop dot it. I think its jus the air tube but not sure what that all consist of to do?


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## OCDKV (Jul 7, 2014)

Cody01 said:


> I fitted my bike with a 100mm Bluto because that's what was in stock when I went to buy. I just purchased a 120mm Bluto equipped bike for my wife and I want it the other way around. Is it easy to change the parts over over should I have a shop dot it. I think its jus the air tube but not sure what that all consist of to do?


Not quite sure exactly what your asking but, if you want the 120 and her the 100 then why not just swap the forks?

However if you want to change the internals this video is exactly how to do it. Just make sure you you buy the proper airshaft for the Bluto and use the recommended oil levels for Bluto. You'll have to decide for yourself if your capable of doing the work. Good luck :thumbsup:


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

A few rides with the Bluto and I have put my carbon Fatboy fork up for sale. Even a stiff Bluto is better than the carbon fork when trying to ride non groomed foot traffic trails.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Would anyone out there with an RCT3 be able to help me out with a configuration issue? I have an RCT3 that I pulled out because my fluid levels were low. While I had it out, I started toying around with it and I must've screwed up the alignment of the lower compression plate. Right now, I'm getting full open, but lockout and "climb" seem to be pretty much the same (mostly locked out). When the compression is open ("descend"), the largest port on that lower plate (aluminum plate that lines up against the black plate with an opening on opposite sides) lines up perfectly, letting all of the fluid flow through, but when it's in middle and lockout, both have two holes (ports) showing- which is why (I think) it appears to perform the same in both positions. I just need to see what a stock one looks like so I can get it lined up correctly. Thanks!


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## prj71 (Dec 29, 2014)

Any of you see this?

Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^Yup. Actually picked up the kit a week or so ago with the intent of rebuilding, but haven't had any issues with stock setup yet, so have just left it alone.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

prj71 said:


> Any of you see this?
> 
> Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM


Honestly, I can't imagine buying the ETR seal kit, as the coldest temp that I've ridden my Bluto with the stock seals has been somewhat -15-16 C (5 F) and that is as cold as I plan to ride. No issues in that temp.

I do have changed the red sticky stock grease to Slick Honey and I'm currently running the fork with 5W Redline (and this is something that I recommend all the Bluto owners to do). So if one changes the stock grease to better one, selects the fork oil that suits the riding season and is ready to play around with the damping controls/fork pressure when it gets a bit colder, I see no issues using the stock seals.

If you decide to change your oil to Redline, one thing to note is the Redline 5W's pour point that is in somewhere -20 C. Redline is a bit like water; viscosity does not change that much when the temperature goes down (at least not as much as most of the other fork oil brands), but when the temperature goes down enough, suddenly you don't have liquid anymore, but jell-o/vaseline. This means that if you stay above the pour point, you should be good to go, but if you go below, your fork will lock up.

If you're interested in the behaviour of Redline oil, some guys in Finnish bicycle forum have been doing testing on different weights. The text is of course in Finnish, but you can see a couple of charts attached to the message. On the X-axis you have the temp of the oil before pouring and on Y-axis the time (in seconds) that how long it took for 10 ml of oil to go through a narrow syringe (without a piston, by gravity). Guys said that they kept all the oils in -21 through the night and only 2.5W and 5W were in liquid form in the morning, but there is some variation and debate on this as others have had a bit different results. Google Translator might or might not be your friend in case you want to read more from there.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I rode in 10F last night, my Bluto lost some of it's air. I haven't checked it yet to see exactly how much, but it was probably about 50% sag when sitting on it. Not a big deal assuming it airs up today. I imagine it will since it wasn't completely stuck down I know there's some air in there.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

Jisch said:


> I rode in 10F last night, my Bluto lost some of it's air. I haven't checked it yet to see exactly how much, but it was probably about 50% sag when sitting on it. Not a big deal assuming it airs up today. I imagine it will since it wasn't completely stuck down I know there's some air in there.


You have still the stock grease in the fork, I assume? Bluto, with the sticky stock grease, seems to have tendency to go out of balance of the air pressure between the upper and lower fork (solo air principle is that the fork should automatically balance this pressure). Air pressure goes to the lower leg, but doesn't balance back and this causes the sag to increase. I had the same, when I was running the stock setup, but problem went away after cleaning the stock grease out and putting Slick Honey in.

If you don't want to change the grease yet, quick resolution is to take the hex screw out from the bottom of the fork in the air side and then to release the air pressure via schrader valve that can be found behind the screw (you need a narrow screwdriver or something similar to reach the valve). No need to take the tire off, just turn your bike upside down. Be careful that the air doesn't shoot the lower leg lubrication oil to your face


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Jisch said:


> I rode in 10F last night, my Bluto lost some of it's air. I haven't checked it yet to see exactly how much, but it was probably about 50% sag when sitting on it. Not a big deal assuming it airs up today. I imagine it will since it wasn't completely stuck down I know there's some air in there.


I had mine do that on a ride once and after letting all the air out of the upper and lower and pumping it back up it was fine and haven't had an issue since. Villho was spot on.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I have had this happen with other forks in the past. Unless it sticks down, it's usually not a problem.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

villho said:


> Honestly, I can't imagine buying the ETR seal kit, as the coldest temp that I've ridden my Bluto with the stock seals has been somewhat -15-16 C (5 F) and that is as cold as I plan to ride. No issues in that temp.
> 
> I do have changed the red sticky stock grease to Slick Honey and I'm currently running the fork with 5W Redline (and this is something that I recommend all the Bluto owners to do). So if one changes the stock grease to better one, selects the fork oil that suits the riding season and is ready to play around with the damping controls/fork pressure when it gets a bit colder, I see no issues using the stock seals.


Yeah- I don't think they're necessary unless you're having a problem. Turnagain even notes that _some_ of the seals will be fine because the tolerance has a margin- so some are going to be fine in colder temps, while other seals/ o-rings may contract and let fluid and/or air seep through into the wrong chamber. I do think the Slick Honey helps the seals do their job a lot better, especially at colder temps, but next time I pull my fork apart, I'm going to swap the seals over just as a precautionary measure.


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## appletrollet (Dec 23, 2014)

villho said:


> You have still the stock grease in the fork, I assume? Bluto, with the sticky stock grease, seems to have tendency to go out of balance of the air pressure between the upper and lower fork (solo air principle is that the fork should automatically balance this pressure). Air pressure goes to the lower leg, but doesn't balance back and this causes the sag to increase. I had the same, when I was running the stock setup, but problem went away after cleaning the stock grease out and putting Slick Honey in.
> 
> If you don't want to change the grease yet, quick resolution is to take the hex screw out from the bottom of the fork in the air side and then to release the air pressure via schrader valve that can be found behind the screw (you need a narrow screwdriver or something similar to reach the valve). No need to take the tire off, just turn your bike upside down. Be careful that the air doesn't shoot the lower leg lubrication oil to your face


There's two valves? My bluto collapsed entirely. I tried to air it up but it didn't work. Also tried to let out all air but alas the fork was stuck with about 50% travel remaining . I returned the fork to my lbs but even they couldn't fix it so they returned the fork to the manufacturer. Still is there.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

^ Yes there are, but you can't add any air from the bottom one, only take it out. As I said, a solo air fork works so that when you add the pressure from the top valve, the same pressure balances to the bottom as well. Ie. in solo air you (should) have always the same pressure on both sides, where in dual air you can decide the pressures separately depending on that what kind of behaviour you expect from your fork. Same pressure on both sides is in most cases good enough and solo air forks simplify reaching this with only one air valve. 

Now, in Bluto it seems that quite often too much air goes to the bottom and it doesn't balance back (I say this is due to the sticky stock grease). And too much air in the bottom means too much sag that you can't get back no matter how much air you try to pump to the top (or at least you will be out of any suitable pressure scales and the fork will feel shitty). Quick resolution is to take extra pressure out from the bottom and after this to check the pressure from the top again. Long term solution is ditching the sticky "PM800 military red grease" or whatever RS calls that **** and putting something more suitable in (eg Slick Honey). 

Taking the air out from the bottom is as easy I said; if you have a right size hex key, it will take less than a minute.


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## appletrollet (Dec 23, 2014)

Thank you. If it happens again I will certainly try this.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Just finished installing a Bluto on my Farley 6 and reading through this thread. I bought the remote pushloc version since it was a lot cheaper than the crown adjust. After hooking up the cable and getting it working I noticed that the cable only pulls the adjuster cap about an eighth of a rotation. The fork does 'lockout' when the cable is released and compress when it's pulled but I wonder if it's fully opening? I can stick an allen wrench in the set screw and rotate the cap quite a bit more than the cable pulls it. Am I worried about nothing?


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

I haven't read through this entire thread, so my apologies if this has been covered. I'm a little frustrated & didn't feel like reading... 

Went out for the first time today with the Bluto & bottomed out a few times so i mostly rode locked out. 

When I got home I started to check the psi & add some air, but when I hooked up the pump it read 0... I pumped it up to the recommended psi for my weight & as soon as I unscrew the pump I hear the air coming out. Screw it back on & it reads zero... I tried googling & youtubing but i'm coming up with nothing. My LBS is closed so I can't get any other guidance until tomorrow & i'm impatient with my new toy.

Yes, i'm an idiot & this is probably something i'm overlooking...


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Is the Schrader core tight?


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

I'd use some soapy water and see if you can track down where the air is leaking out. Likely suspects are the schrader valve, the hex bolt on bottom, or fork seals.


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## hiss2 (Jan 13, 2002)

I had this same problem when i first got my bluto. What it ended up being was a stuck schrader valve pin. The pump wasnt able to depress the needle in the schrader enough to let the air in, so the reading on the pump gauge was only the air in the hose of the pump, none actually got in the fork. I remember thinking, wow this is a low volume air chamber, since it came up to pressure so quick. But it still confused the hell out of me for a good hour or two till i figured it out.. Fully depress the pin a few times with an allen key and put a few drops of oil in there and try it again..


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

hiss2 said:


> I had this same problem when i first got my bluto. What it ended up being was a stuck schrader valve pin. The pump wasnt able to depress the needle in the schrader enough to let the air in, so the reading on the pump gauge was only the air in the hose of the pump, none actually got in the fork. I remember thinking, wow this is a low volume air chamber, since it came up to pressure so quick. But it still confused the hell out of me for a good hour or two till i figured it out.. Fully depress the pin a few times with an allen key and put a few drops of oil in there and try it again..


Thanks, I'll give this a shot.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

^This. If you're hearing air leak out, it's likely that the valve core is loose. Tighten it up and try again. If you don't have a valve core tool, most automotive stores (which are open late) will have one, or you could try a pair of tweezers to snug it up.


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## BigVaz (Feb 19, 2010)

Here's another question...

When working properly with the correct amount of psi, should I be able to just lean on the front of the bike & bottom the fork out? I'm a bigger guy, but if I do this on my Fuel w/ a Fox fork there's not a chance in hell I bottom it out. It feels much stiffer than the Bluto. I know this might be apples & oranges, but the Fuel was my first bike w/ suspension so that's what I have to compare it to...


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I'm maybe 170 geared up and found 2 tokens are needed to keep the 


bluto from blowing thru its travel.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

No. If you have the proper pressure in, and the compression opened up, you should be able to compress it maybe 2/3 of the way or so if you really press down hard and fast. You should not be able to bottom it out.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

BigVaz said:


> Here's another question...
> 
> When working properly with the correct amount of psi, should I be able to just lean on the front of the bike & bottom the fork out? I'm a bigger guy, but if I do this on my Fuel w/ a Fox fork there's not a chance in hell I bottom it out. It feels much stiffer than the Bluto. I know this might be apples & oranges, but the Fuel was my first bike w/ suspension so that's what I have to compare it to...


I had this happen during a ride once, fugger just lost everything. Took it back to the lot pumped it up a little higher and same friggen thing. Tried one more time with an excessive amount of air took it out for a good thrashing and it pulled out of it, no idea what happened.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Mr. Lynch said:


> I'm maybe 170 geared up and found 2 tokens are needed to keep the
> 
> bluto from blowing thru its travel.


The 100 mm travel Bluto should come with 2 tokens installed. Bigger guys, or people that want to run lower air pressure and still keep from bottoming out put 1 or 2 more in.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

The 120 version has no tokens stock.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

I weigh 75 kg (~150 lbs) and have 120 mm Bluto. To keep it nice and plush, I run it with low-ish pressure (~70 psi) and hence I have currently 3 tokens to avoid it from bottoming. This setup works well; the fork is at the same time plush with nice progression and the closest I've been able to get it to bottoming has been ~ 5 mm (small drop with bad landing). 

(And just for the record, I have RCT3 as well)


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Villho- next time you pull your RCT3 damper out, would you mind looking at the lower plate and telling me how the holes in the aluminum plate line up against the black plate with the two opposite openings?

I think I'm losing oil/ fluid in the damper side as I keep having to top off the oil on the damper side. Not sure how to remedy this (other than take it in for service).


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## blue_biker (Sep 7, 2008)

Just some info on mine if anyone is looking at a similar set up. 

Bluto 120 on an On-One Fatty (66degree HTA with fork)

Because of slacker HTA I can run higher pressure and stay smooth. 

I am 180lbs kitted up. 
Run 95lbs in fork. 0 tokens. 
12 psi front 9 psi rear tires. 
Also swapped red grease for slick honey. Stock damper as I have no complaints. 

Riding is mostly hardpack single track with lots of roots and rocks. 2-3 foot drops are not uncommon. I think I have only bottomed once. Plenty smooth for me.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Anyone have a bottomless token or 2 they'd like to sell? Got a feeling I'd like to run lower air pressure for small bump compliance but ramp it up to keep from bottoming.


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## ADKMTNBIKER (Nov 29, 2014)

I've got an 80mm BLUTO on my Mayor and need to chop the steer tube. Is there a special pipe cutter or will any type do?


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## blue_biker (Sep 7, 2008)

ADKMTNBIKER said:


> I've got an 80mm BLUTO on my Mayor and need to chop the steer tube. Is there a special pipe cutter or will any type do?


I use a pipe cutter from the hardware store. Works perfect and smooth edges. Better than our park tool we had at the shop.


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

ADKMTNBIKER said:


> I've got an 80mm BLUTO on my Mayor and need to chop the steer tube. Is there a special pipe cutter or will any type do?


i use this
Park Tool Co. » SG-6 : Threadless Saw Guide : Frame & Fork Tools
and a regular metal saw


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Pipe/tube cutter from Home Depot- just slowly increase the pressure when you cut and it won't flare and you end up with a smooth straight cut.

If you need at move the star nut, a 1 ft section of M6 rod and a few washers/nuts works very well to pull it deeper in the tube.


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## ADKMTNBIKER (Nov 29, 2014)

Paochow said:


> Pipe/tube cutter from Home Depot- just slowly increase the pressure when you cut and it won't flare and you end up with a smooth straight cut.
> 
> If you need at move the star nut, a 1 ft section of M6 rod and a few washers/nuts works very well to pull it deeper in the tube.


My wife really enjoyed your recommendation. Thanks for the advice


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## ADKMTNBIKER (Nov 29, 2014)

blue_biker said:


> I use a pipe cutter from the hardware store. Works perfect and smooth edges. Better than our park tool we had at the shop.


Thanks for the advice.


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## Maine_Rider (Jan 23, 2011)

Glad to see others are experimenting with their forks. From experience, I have experimented with changing the oil viscosity in the damper of my Reba and plan to also do on the Bluto.

I found that keeping the viscosity the same (VS temperature) is the key to having the damping circuit work properly in low temps.

In reviewing viscosity and temp, I found that 2.5w rock shox oil (at low temps) is the same viscosity as the 5w oil at 70deg.

Note - oil weight and subsequent viscosity bear no semblance. They are all over the map but there are charts online that will tell you viscosity of various weight oils. Some having differing temperature reactions... just FYI.

So, I have previously swapped oils around in my Reba for winter use and really liked the improvement.

I also discovered the issue of fill level. If you look at the tolerance, it's +-2ml tolerance for amount of oil in damper. Too much, it locks out. Too little, I suspect it does not damp properly. To play it safe, overfill slightly - then remove 2ml of oil at a time till you get the proper amount of travel with no air in the air spring side. THIS IS KEY TO GETTING PROPER TRAVEL OF YOUR FORK. 2ml is NOT a lot and makes all the difference in a properly working damper.

So, take that for what it's worth - another point of light.

some prior math (for my Reba shock):

Stock 5w Rock Shox viscosity @ 20 C is approx 37 cSt (a measure of viscosity)

@ 0 C - 83 cSt! (ouch, much thicker)

To achieve this with redline:

Lightweight @ 0C = 49 cSt (still thicker.. but much better)


But... using 2.5w Rock Shox @ 0 C = 31.95 cSt... might be a good choice for colder weather riding.. particularly below freezing.

and even closer:

Maxima Racing Shock Fluid (Light, 3wt) @ 0 C = 38 cSt


So... just FYI, achieving a similar viscosity is possible with a bit of work. Kind of a PIA.. but for cold weather bumps, it might be worth the switch.


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## cavedweller32 (Sep 12, 2014)

Question...I was riding my new bluto for the first time the other night . Cold...like 10deg...fork compressed all the way down and totally lost pressure. I Aires it back up after getting home...160psi...the fork isn't nearly as tall as it was...can barley see the 80mm on the fork but could easily see the 100mm before. Any advice???


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

cavedweller32 said:


> Question...I was riding my new bluto for the first time the other night . Cold...like 10deg...fork compressed all the way down and totally lost pressure. I Aires it back up after getting home...160psi...the fork isn't nearly as tall as it was...can barley see the 80mm on the fork but could easily see the 100mm before. Any advice???


Read through this thread, somewhere it talks about all the air going to the negative side and how to fix it. Pretty simple fix.


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## cavedweller32 (Sep 12, 2014)

Yup...took the air out of the top then out of the bottom....aired it up and fork popped back up to normal. Thanks! Slick Honey in the mail.


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## eastman115 (Dec 6, 2009)

I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

eastman115 said:


> I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.


Boxers or briefs?


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## cavedweller32 (Sep 12, 2014)

eastman115 said:


> I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.


I have the lock...use it quite a bit compared to my FS rig...you want all the stiff you can get when cranking uphill so I constantly use the lockout. It's according to preference and type of riding you do.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

eastman115 said:


> I'd appreciate people's thoughts on whether to go with the remote lock-out option or not? This will be going on a Pivot Les Fat.


I bought a remote lock version since it was a lot cheaper than the regular one and haven't had any issues yet. It's easy to convert to the regular type if you find you don't like it. Just pull the damper up out of the right side tube and use a pick or screwdriver to dislodge the spring in the middle a couple of turns. Then you can turn the cap by hand and it'll stay where you turn it. Just put an oring under the cap. I think it's written up with pics somewhere in this thread.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Everywhere I've seen the remote version cost $50+ more. 
I dont really see the point in it either. I'll take the ability to adjust the damper a few clicks version all or nothing. I run it full open descending, halfway most the time on rolling terrain and almost locked for the beach.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Any extra trigger on my bars is reserved for a dropper post.

Never needed a remote lockout, but then again SoCal and NorCal trails generally telegraphed their long fire road climbs well in advance, easy to reach down. 

I could see it for one of those forks with adjustable travel - push it out to 150m to descend, tighten up to 110mm to climb - but that's not in the fatty cards for a while I'd guess.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

Post deleted, not beneficial to the thread
Cheers,
FGO


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

cavedweller32 said:


> Yup...took the air out of the top then out of the bottom....aired it up and fork popped back up to normal. Thanks! Slick Honey in the mail.


So unfortunately I've been hit with the same issue where I've lost travel after a cold weather ride. I've read through the whole thread and am still not able to fix it.

If I interpreted it properly, the procedure is to:

Remove top air cover and release all pressure (non drive side)
Remove bottom 5mm bolt on same side of fork (non drive side)
Try to press in on schrader valve on bottom (this is where I get stuck)

For the life of me, I can't figure out why the bottom schrader valve won't push in to release the negative pressure.

Am I doing the right things? Any ideas?

Thanks!


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## ishpeming (Feb 23, 2012)

My Bluto did the same thing. Rode 400 or more miles in above zero temps with no issues Bluto functioning well. Rode once in approximately 10 below F, and it compressed about 1/3 down. Took it to LBS and $55 later it got the Borealis Turnagain cold weather kit installed. Have ridden many below zero miles since over 5 weeks and no issues. It is a daily commuter.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

My google-fu is fubar. Anyone have a source for tokens? LBS tried to sell me pike tokens, so not going back to them.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Look part way down the page you will see em for 32mm forks, the black ones.

Universal Cycles -- Rock Shox Bottomless Token Spacers


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

ishpeming said:


> My Bluto did the same thing. Rode 400 or more miles in above zero temps with no issues Bluto functioning well. Rode once in approximately 10 below F, and it compressed about 1/3 down. Took it to LBS and $55 later it got the Borealis Turnagain cold weather kit installed. Have ridden many below zero miles since over 5 weeks and no issues. It is a daily commuter.


I guess I may have to do that too. Called LBS and they talked about different weight oils and other solutions. To me, it sounds like the Turnagain kit has done the trick for enough that it seems like a fairly safe bet. I tried to loosen the bottom bolt and took a couple of light hits to it but it didn't seem to do anything. If anyone has other ideas, I'd love to hear them!

Overall, it's just a bummer that a $600 fork built for fat bikes (often ridden in the winter), has this problem. I can only imagine that the problem will continue to grow as more and more start riding with Bluto.


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## borgey007 (Jan 24, 2015)

ishpeming said:


> My Bluto did the same thing. Rode 400 or more miles in above zero temps with no issues Bluto functioning well. Rode once in approximately 10 below F, and it compressed about 1/3 down. Took it to LBS and $55 later it got the Borealis Turnagain cold weather kit installed. Have ridden many below zero miles since over 5 weeks and no issues. It is a daily commuter.


Is the modification using the kit an easy one?
Can any bike mechanic do it; or does it require a mechanic with special skills?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Mine has been awesome down to - single digits f with just the slick honey upgrade.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Mine has been awesome down to - single digits f with just the slick honey upgrade.


Ditto- mine appears to work at temps that I quit at.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

Higgins17 said:


> I guess I may have to do that too. Called LBS and they talked about different weight oils and other solutions. To me, it sounds like the Turnagain kit has done the trick for enough that it seems like a fairly safe bet. I tried to loosen the bottom bolt and took a couple of light hits to it but it didn't seem to do anything. If anyone has other ideas, I'd love to hear them!
> 
> Overall, it's just a bummer that a $600 fork built for fat bikes (often ridden in the winter), has this problem. I can only imagine that the problem will continue to grow as more and more start riding with Bluto.


So just a quick follow-up to my post: With the bike upside down and the pressure already released from the typical (only) inflation valve, I was able to loosen the nut halfway. With light to moderate hammering on the 5mm bit/socket extension still in the half loosened nut, the air pressure did let go. From there, I was able to repressurize just a little bit (to roughly 40 psi) using the normal valve, get the nut back on and tightened, and continue the inflation from the normal valve. I will note that I did finish off the task by manually pulling the fork to its maximum extension (apparently the point where the fork auto equalizes the pressure).

I certainly can't say for sure if this is the perfect way to do it, but it worked for me and I was able to go back out and ride in 20 degrees F without any issues. (the issues started last time at 3 deg F).

Thanks all who posted comments that helped with this temporary resolution. I'm still likely to install the turnagain seals because I want to be able to ride in all conditions.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I don't believe changing the seals will resolve this problem but I believe slick honey comes with the kit and that will. I think it has something to do with the grease plugging up the orifice the equalizes the pressure between the pos and neg side. I could be wrong altogether though 

Edit, I guess it could be the air seal shrinking to much in the cold and letting to much air into the negative side but I haven't had this issue in the cold with the standard seals.

Oh and I'm not sure why you are beating on anything, you take the bolt out and the valve is under it.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

bdundee said:


> I don't believe changing the seals will resolve this problem but I believe slick honey comes with the kit and that will. I think it has something to do with the grease plugging up the orifice the equalizes the pressure between the pos and neg side. I could be wrong altogether though
> 
> Edit, I guess it could be the air seal shrinking to much in the cold and letting to much air into the negative side but I haven't had this issue in the cold with the standard seals.
> 
> Oh and I'm not sure why you are beating on anything, you take the bolt out and the valve is under it.


Definitely! My first go around was to remove the nut completely and lightly press on that valve with a hex tool. Perhaps if I had pressed harder it would have released the pressure, but I was concerned about bending or breaking the valve, especially given that the schrader on the top of the shock is so easy to press. Can you confirm that's worked for you?

P.S. - thanks for the tip on the slick honey. Looks like people swear by that stuff!

Edit: Just wanted to mention that I didn't make up the beating on the nut piece. There were a couple of videos around including the  turnagain one, where they use light tapping to free up the lowers. I haven't had a ton of experience working on forks but I had to ride tonight!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Yeah that is correct to take the lowers off you loosen that bolt and tap on it. I guess it would also release the pressure as well.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

The only reason, why someone would tap the bottom nut/screw, is to take lowers off, as said in the thread. Of course it will also release the pressure from the negative side, but if there is a valve for that, why not to use that.

And no, there is no reason to release the pressure from the top, to release the pressure from the bottom. Actually, I think it's better to keep the pressure in the top, as then the fork pops right back up to the full lenght, when you release the pressure from the negative side (ie. bottom). Then you at least know that you have done it correctly.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

I must be one of the lucky ones because I have ridden in 3 degrees and have not had a single issue.........but I have done quite a few mods to date with the exception of the turnagain mod..slick honey and 7.5 wt being the most beneficial


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

Fat907 said:


> I must be one of the lucky ones because I have ridden in 3 degrees and have not had a single issue.........but I have done quite a few mods to date with the exception of the turnagain mod..slick honey and 7.5 wt being the most beneficial


Well, I have neither had any issues since Slick Honey. I'm running my Bluto also with 2014 Sid RCT3 comp/reb internals + RedLine 5W.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

I have the RTC3 along with the dig valve but could take it or leave it........my other Bluto just has the oil wt change with the slick honey and I really don't notice a difference


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

Fat907 said:


> I have the RTC3 along with the dig valve but could take it or leave it........my other Bluto just has the oil wt change with the slick honey and I really don't notice a difference


Reb with dig valve - probably yes, but I do like RCT3 comp damper more than the regular Bluto damper.


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## plesurnpain (Sep 9, 2007)

Just picked up the RCT3 for my Bluto. Is it just a straight damper swap or do I need to make an adjustment to the fluid level? Thanks


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Should be same fluid level, but some fluid will come out with your old damper, so it's worth checking the depth/ volume before you put the RCT3 in.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

If one doesn't have a proper measure to check the liquid level, a quick method to test the correct fluid level is this:
- If you are able to lock the fork, you should have enough fluid (and vice versa: if it doesn't lock, you might miss some fluid. Note here, there have been cases that playing around with the damper has caused the shim stack to move so that the lock-up doesn't work well) 
- And when you have the damper in the fork and also the "nut ring" for lock-up lever tightened, but no air in yet, you can try to push the fork in carefully. If you are able to bottom out the fork, you know that you dont have too much liquid (and vice versa: if the fork doesn't bottom, but stops before that, you might have too much liquid).


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

Just started dialing in my Bluto after the LBS took it from 800mm to 120mm, found some instant problems. When I air it up for my weight, I can barley get it compress 1 inch when I put my full weight on it. When I back the air pressure down to 50lbs, it drops down very similar to the 80mm range and I can get some travel through the range. When I let the air out, I was unable to extend the fork, and felt a strong pull to compress the fork. This could only be overcome by adding 100-120 lbs and then I had no travel. I suspect that the LBS may have done something amiss during the install of the 120mm airtube, or I am a complete idiot. Any suggestions would be truly appreciated.
Thanks!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Sound like the same ole trouble of to much air in the negative side. Read through the thread and it will explain how to fix this problem. Worth a shot it only takes a couple of minutes to try it.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Father Guzzi Obrian said:


> Just started dialing in my Bluto after the LBS took it from 800mm to 120mm, found some instant problems. When I air it up for my weight, I can barley get it compress 1 inch when I put my full weight on it. When I back the air pressure down to 50lbs, it drops down very similar to the 80mm range and I can get some travel through the range. When I let the air out, I was unable to extend the fork, and felt a strong pull to compress the fork. This could only be overcome by adding 100-120 lbs and then I had no travel. I suspect that the LBS may have done something amiss during the install of the 120mm airtube, or I am a complete idiot. Any suggestions would be truly appreciated.
> Thanks!


Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.

Last weekend I took mine apart and cleaned off the gooey, sticky red grease and lubed it up with Slick Honey. I also added 1 token for a total of 3 in a 100mm Bluto so I could run lower pressure but still have good bottoming resistance. Awesome improvement! I didn't change the oil in the other side since it's new and will be warming up soon. Maybe next winter.

BTW, I have 3 tokens left over. PM me if anyone wants them.


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## HDTVdevil (Nov 16, 2011)

chriskmurray said:


> Be sure to play with the air tokens, if you are not getting full travel try removing a token. The more tokens you have in the air side of your fork the more the air spring ramps up through the travel.
> 
> Also if you are really picky about your suspension, you can actually run the RCT3 damper in the Bluto over the stock damper. You will have to play around to find the right oil volumes though.


Apparently, there is Bluto RCT3 coming. But as I'm new to rockshox, what is the difference between between the current damper and the RCT3 damper?

Sent from my SM-T905 using Tapatalk


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

not2shabby said:


> Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.


What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

Thanks,
And I will do some reading, appreciate the help. Is this a recurring problem, once I release the pressure from the bottom, should I expect it to gradually return to the same problem? Solutions for this? I ride in SoCal so I do not experience much cold, and the LBS said they did got with the slick honey on mine, Thanks again for your input.
Cheers,


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

bdundee said:


> What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.


You're right but you're always going to have people who won't read through 13 or however many pages to get the info they're looking for. I was feeling generous. ....


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Father Guzzi Obrian said:


> Thanks,
> And I will do some reading, appreciate the help. Is this a recurring problem, once I release the pressure from the bottom, should I expect it to gradually return to the same problem? Solutions for this? I ride in SoCal so I do not experience much cold, and the LBS said they did got with the slick honey on mine, Thanks again for your input.
> Cheers,


I'm no expert, but from reading this thread it seems to be a cold related issue. Usually doesn't recur.
I'm surprised it happened to you since the fork was just serviced. Did you try the fix yet? If it doesn't work I'd take it back to the LBS.


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

Just released the pressure from the bottom, worked very well, now have full travel with 20% sag set up. The reading really helped clarify what the issue was. Thanks again!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

This is one thread that is worth a read through for sure, good stuff inside!!


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

not2shabby said:


> Release all the air pressure from the top, flip the bike over and remove the bolt from the bottom of the fork. Then use a small screwdriver to release air pressure from the valve under it. Reinstall the bolt, turn bike right side up and pump up the fork to desired pressure. Should be good to go.


I received a new 120mm fork that had air in the neg. chamber. It seemed to function normally, but at 100mm travel.
Would purposely adding air to the neg. chamber be a viable way to adjust travel? (not sure how one would do it on purpose, though)

-F


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Fleas said:


> I received a new 120mm fork that had air in the neg. chamber. It seemed to function normally, but at 100mm travel.
> Would purposely adding air to the neg. chamber be a viable way to adjust travel? (not sure how one would do it on purpose, though)
> 
> -F


You can't add air to the negative chamber you can only remove it. So that was actually what was wrong with your fork?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bdundee said:


> What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.


Because the thread has a whole lot of fluff, so the "answers" are a pain to find. A little FAQ would be helful, esp since the Bluto is the only "decent" fork we have so far. Sure, they could use search, but it's so generic...

For my part, I ride an 80mm Bluto stock with four tokens, typically run 115psi, I weigh 200#, this seems to work well for me, I don't generally bottom the fork, but I use most of the travel when I ride dirt. My Bluto is stock, works fine, no stiction, holds air when cold, only issue is loss of pressure when I go from a warm garage to a cold ride.

The key is to air up the fork and tires at the trail 

On a hard tail, I don't know that having 120mm of travel would be all that worthwhile, esp with fat tires, seems like 80-100mm is the sweet spot.

I'm building a Mutz, that bike will get a Bluto 120mm to match the 120mm Cane In Line, it will be running 650b+ much of the year, so not a true fat except in the dead of winter.

I'm also building a Jefe tandem fat, it'll be getting a Bluto 100mm, likely running four tokens due to the extra weight from two riders. Since this is a "heavy use" for the Bluto, I'll be looking to upgrade when the "pluto" makes it's debut.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> Because the thread has a whole lot of fluff, so the "answers" are a pain to find.


Nope a hint on where to find it should be enough, shouldn't have to go into full detail on every other page. I dig through threads all the time for research and 13 pages isn't a lot.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

Maybe I'm not picky, but I've never had to mess with my Bluto. I have the 120mm version, added to tokens since I was bottoming out alot, and just ride. warm, cold, snow mud, it just works and I'm happy. I ride my fatbike like an aggressive all-mountain hardtail though, so my results my be different than people who do snowy xc rides. 

I ride a lot of rough, jumps and drops and I wouldnt want anything less than 120mm. To me 80mm for anything more than groomed snow and gravel roads would suck,. If Rockshox releases a Pike based version in the 150mm range I'd be all over that!


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## borgey007 (Jan 24, 2015)

bdundee said:


> What I don't understand is why we have to keep answering the same questions in the same thread, give them a hint and let them do some reading. They will be better off in the end for it.


Because different people frequently offer a different perspective on things; sometime even a few new tricks to solve a problem. In regards to the same question, I am interested to hear the various answers, and I usually I learn something from each of the various answers.

You are not required to answer the "same questions" if you don't want to.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

borgey007 said:


> Because different people frequently offer a different perspective on things; sometime even a few new tricks to solve a problem. In regards to the same question, I am interested to hear the various answers, and I usually I learn something from each of the various answers.
> 
> You are not required to answer the "same questions" if you don't want to.


This wasn't about different perspectives it was instructions on how to relieve the air pressure in the negative chamber. Keep quoting something and the original reason it was said kinda goes away and one can twist it in any direction you want.

Edit: and if you would have been paying attention you will notice I said to look back in the thread to learn about this. If one would do this they would also learn more about why this is happening and other peoples experience with the same problem. Instead they just got told how to fix it.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

You nailed it Bob......I for one would like to know why the problem exists not just the cure


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

bdundee said:


> You can't add air to the negative chamber you can only remove it. So that was actually what was wrong with your fork?


Yes. Thanks for the tip! Bikesdirect CS quoted the method from this thread. That's how the internet _should_ be used.:thumbsup:

-F


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## Father Guzzi Obrian (May 31, 2014)

I assume if my bottom tube fills up fairly frequently, I have a scratch on my air tube allowing the pressurized air to migrate to the bottom? If this is a weekly excersize, do you suggest I take it back to the LBS for a check over as they did the 120 upgrade. or is this normal.
Great thread, this and reading the Bluto tech manual and I really have a good understanding of how this sucker works now. I just don't want to goon it myself while the LBS is on the hook for the upgrade to 120mm
One of the most beneficial threads I've come across here.
Thanks,


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Father Guzzi Obrian said:


> I assume if my bottom tube fills up fairly frequently, I have a scratch on my air tube allowing the pressurized air to migrate to the bottom? If this is a weekly excersize, do you suggest I take it back to the LBS for a check over as they did the 120 upgrade. or is this normal.
> Great thread, this and reading the Bluto tech manual and I really have a good understanding of how this sucker works now. I just don't want to goon it myself while the LBS is on the hook for the upgrade to 120mm
> One of the most beneficial threads I've come across here.
> Thanks,


If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Spent a good bit of time talking to SRAM guys at NAHBS about tuning my Bluto. Going to pick up some tokens so I can mess with the volume a bit, and will possibly make the change to the RCT3 damper once things dry out and I can really put it through its paces. FWIW, I was told that not too far into the future (possibly sometime in 2015 or later for the 2016MY), all Blutos will come with the RCT3 damper.


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## villho (Oct 8, 2009)

majack said:


> If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.


Umm.... wth? A solo-air fork (such as Bluto) is supposed to work exactly in that manner that the air which rider puts to the fork, gets automatically balanced to the bottom. It's not a fault, it's a feature - positive and negative should always have the same pressure in tjese forks.

Problems start to occur when too much air gets to the bottom, but doesn't balance back (due to too sticky oem grease). And for that issue this thread gives a working solution.


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## Higgins17 (Dec 6, 2009)

FWIW, I read somewhere that the equalization doesn't occur until after the fork returns to the top of the travel (and crosses a ridge) - obviously, if it never returns to the top, it never equalizes. Not exactly sure how all of the forces play out as I haven't studied all of the internals, but that seemed to make sense (and has affected others using the Reba which has a similar construction). 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Curious for those that went from 120 to 100/110/90/80 on their Bluto by replacing the air shaft how much fluid you had to replace. I just swapped mine out and I would say that less than a bottle cap came out of each side of the fork.

Thx


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## VBoothe (Oct 21, 2014)

5ml of 15wt per leg.

It's in the service manual


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## Negotiator50 (Apr 21, 2012)

Archangel6 said:


> Curious for those that went from 120 to 100/110/90/80 on their Bluto by replacing the air shaft how much fluid you had to replace. I just swapped mine out and I would say that less than a bottle cap came out of each side of the fork.
> 
> Thx


Was it difficult to change the travel from 120 to a lower one? I'm thinking about doing it but am worried about how difficult it would be.


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

VBoothe said:


> 5ml of 15wt per leg.
> 
> It's in the service manual


Yep - saw that. Also curious if anyone else had little to no oil in their fork.


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Negotiator50 said:


> Was it difficult to change the travel from 120 to a lower one? I'm thinking about doing it but am worried about how difficult it would be.


Nah - hardest part is finding fork oil locally. Took all of 20 minutes to complete


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Archangel6 said:


> Nah - hardest part is finding fork oil locally. Took all of 20 minutes to complete


I just used some 15wt Amsoil synthetic motorcycle oil I had in the garage.


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## Fat907 (Jun 29, 2014)

One of the easiest forks I have ever taken apart.................


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Archangel6 said:


> Yep - saw that. Also curious if anyone else had little to no oil in their fork.


I usually always take new forks apart just to make sure there is the right amount of oil in them.

However.....I did not do this with my Bluto....but it has been working fine. I will take it apart in the next few weeks to change fluids and check things out.

A friend got a Bluto and complained that it blew through travel and the lock out wouldn't work. I opened it up and it was low on oil.. Once brought up to specs....it works fine.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

majack said:


> If you have air that seeps to the negative on a regular basis, then I would take it back to your LBS and have them look it over. This sounds like a scratch in the air shaft and needs to be fixed.





villho said:


> Umm.... wth? A solo-air fork (such as Bluto) is supposed to work exactly in that manner that the air which rider puts to the fork, gets automatically balanced to the bottom. It's not a fault, it's a feature - positive and negative should always have the same pressure in tjese forks.
> 
> Problems start to occur when too much air gets to the bottom, but doesn't balance back (due to too sticky oem grease). And for that issue this thread gives a working solution.





Higgins17 said:


> FWIW, I read somewhere that the equalization doesn't occur until after the fork returns to the top of the travel (and crosses a ridge) - obviously, if it never returns to the top, it never equalizes. Not exactly sure how all of the forces play out as I haven't studied all of the internals, but that seemed to make sense (and has affected others using the Reba which has a similar construction).
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


So if my fork keeps creeping down under normal use, but not losing air from the top chamber, it's pretty much no good then?
It was brand new. 2nd ride.
I let my sister ride my fatbike today on the bike path. 2 hrs. later the fork was bottomed out. When I got home I checked the top air pressure. It had dropped from maybe 105psi to 95psi, but it was bottomed out to the stops. I relieved the pressure out the bottom and it popped right up. It wasn't even cold outside.
I need RochShox service, don't I? I swear, it should be no surprise why I mainly ride rigid.

-F


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

I'd try taking it apart, cleaning the red stock gooey grease off the air spring and inside the fork and lubing it up good with Slick Honey. Worth a try.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

not2shabby said:


> I'd try taking it apart, cleaning the red stock gooey grease off the air spring and inside the fork and lubing it up good with Slick Honey. Worth a try.


I finally read this entire thread. The pressure seeping to the negative chamber is NOT entirely temperature dependent. It is more likely a factor of the gooey red grease clogging things up.

I may just squirt a thimbleful of alcohol or WD-40 down there to see if that cuts the grease a little. With my luck, if I took my fork apart it would end up with dog hair in it or something.

-F


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

Great thread with lots of good info.
I ordered a 100mm Bluto for my Carbon Beargrease and was wondering what else I would need to do the conversion. Should I get the Hawk kit with hub spacers and brake caliper mount? or is there a better way of doing it. Also will I need to change anything from the current headset that comes on the Beargrease?


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Windigo said:


> Great thread with lots of good info.
> I ordered a 100mm Bluto for my Carbon Beargrease and was wondering what else I would need to do the conversion. Should I get the Hawk kit with hub spacers and brake caliper mount? or is there a better way of doing it. Also will I need to change anything from the current headset that comes on the Beargrease?


If your current hub is 135mm, then the Hauck kit is the cheapest way to go. You'll have to run a 180mm disc though. If your current fork is a 1 1/2 to 1 1/8 taper you could remove the crown race from it and put it on the Bluto. Probably easier to just get a new one. They're only about $10. You'll need a hacksaw or tube cutter to cut the Bluto steerer tube to length also. Measure 10 times, cut once!

Edit: Doesn't your bike already have a 150mm hub?


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

No, they have a 142 through axle hub.


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

Will I need a crown race setting tool?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Windigo said:


> Will I need a crown race setting tool?


Depends on your crown race. Split race and no need for any tool.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Windigo said:


> No, they have a 142 through axle hub.


I assume it's 135mm with the end caps removed? If so, then the Hauck spacers will work. 
I just used a piece of pvc pipe and carefully tapped the race on the Bluto. 
Salsa hub, right?


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

Yes Salsa hub.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

You should be good to go then. You can get the Hauck kit on ebay for $40. Disc adapter included.


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Slick honey...who'd of thunk? It's a completely different fork now. Why do they use that red sticky crap in the first place? I really like my Bluto now. Totally worth the time.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

watermonkey said:


> Slick honey...who'd of thunk? It's a completely different fork now. Why do they use that red sticky crap in the first place? I really like my Bluto now. Totally worth the time.


Yuppers!!


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

I have a quick question and haven't been able to find a definitive answer by searching.
On my Bluto 100mm, The first 2 or 3mm of travel, I have very little resistance. They everything acts as normal. I have read this is normal because of the air piston, but also that the fork my be low on oil.

So is it normal and if not, what should I be looking at?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> So if my fork keeps creeping down under normal use, but not losing air from the top chamber, it's pretty much no good then?
> It was brand new. 2nd ride.
> I let my sister ride my fatbike today on the bike path. 2 hrs. later the fork was bottomed out. When I got home I checked the top air pressure. It had dropped from maybe 105psi to 95psi, but it was bottomed out to the stops. I relieved the pressure out the bottom and it popped right up. It wasn't even cold outside.
> I need RochShox service, don't I? I swear, it should be no surprise why I mainly ride rigid.
> ...


I refused to work on a brand new fork so my shop handled it with RockShox.
My fork ended up with new air guts. The parts were free, but not the service (thanks, RS).
There was not an excessive amount of red grease in it, and it had never been exposed to sub-zero (F) temps, yet it never worked right.
Laying new next to "old" they appeared to be the same.

The fork "works" now, but I will likely fiddle with some tokens to prevent blowing through the travel.

As far as that oil question, I think it's the air that holds up your fork, not the oil. My fork seems to have almost like freeplay in that first 3mm or so as well.

-F


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

After reading this whole thread, i have decided to swap to the rct3 damper and change the grease to slick honey while I am at it. I have a big jug of 7.5wt shock oil already so I will use that instead of the 5wt stuff.

Parts are on order so I will probably do the work next week. It is supposed to be a stormy week.

What sealed the deal for me was the discussion about stiction making it tough to set sag correctly. Decided i might as well swap the damper if I'm gonna take the fork apart and replace the grease.


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## arc (Sep 9, 2004)

The stiction was bothering me but I didn't want to pull the fork apart until the dampers came back in stock.

Instead I pulled the air cap off and put a little 20 weight Fox black gold stanchion lube oil in. It mixed with the grease to make a slurry that is slowly seeping past the seals to the lube the bottom. I put some slick honey on the volume reducers figuring it'll get knocked off from riding and drop onto the piston from time to time.

Its now working well enough that I decided not to do the damper upgrade.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

T


Harold said:


> After reading this whole thread, i have decided to swap to the rct3 damper and change the grease to slick honey while I am at it. I have a big jug of 7.5wt shock oil already so I will use that instead of the 5wt stuff.
> 
> Parts are on order so I will probably do the work next week. It is supposed to be a stormy week.
> 
> What sealed the deal for me was the discussion about stiction making it tough to set sag correctly. Decided i might as well swap the damper if I'm gonna take the fork apart and replace the grease.


Sounds like a plan. Any thoughts on where a dude can find the most accurate installation guide to pull this off? Does Rock Shox have decent download manuals on their site or should I YouTube it? Have had good luck with my ol X-fusion rebuild, mainly thanks to accurate tech manuals and customer support....not so sure about RS though. If you have time, could you plz post up your rebuild here later? Would love to get the most out of my Bluto and this sounds like the way to go! :thumbsup:


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

NH Mtbiker said:


> T
> 
> Sounds like a plan. Any thoughts on where a dude can find the most accurate installation guide to pull this off? Does Rock Shox have decent download manuals on their site or should I YouTube it? Have had good luck with my ol X-fusion rebuild, mainly thanks to accurate tech manuals and customer support....not so sure about RS though. If you have time, could you plz post up your rebuild here later? Would love to get the most out of my Bluto and this sounds like the way to go! :thumbsup:


https://www.sram.com/sites/default/files/techdocs/gen.0000000004694_rev_a_2015_bluto_reba_sm.pdf

First page of the discussion has a link to the manual. It's pretty detailed. Aside from the specifics related to each damper, everything else seems to be the same. General suggestion seems to be to slightly overfill the oil when reinstalling, and remove little by little until the damper works correctly. But the specific amounts seem to line up exactly the same as the instructions say for the RL damper. As for the grease, the instructions cover how to clean off the old, and where to put the new. If you've done fork service before, it shouldn't be a problem. I've done Fox forks before when changing the wipers/seals to Enduro ones. Speaking of which, it's time to do that to my old Fox on my other mtb again.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

About to dive into my Bluto this afternoon. Couldn't find any crush washers in quantities less than 50, so I'm going to replace the seals, wipers, and all that while I'm at it (using the kit that came with my Bluto) so I can use the crush washers in the kit.

FWIW, I was talking to some SRAM reps last night at the shop and one of them mentioned that switching to Slick Honey shortens the service interval on the Bluto, but that lots of employees at their local office do just that with their RS forks. Also, a local shop owner I talked to today uses Slick Honey in his, and has since he bought his Bluto.


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

So, from reading this whole thread...I don't really want a Bluto anymore?

Sucks because I have to decide what ~$600 to spend upgrading a Fatboy before I order it this weekend...but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with suspension a ton...

Are people expecting more "set and forget" options down the road?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Slow_Thyroid_Bike said:


> So, from reading this whole thread...I don't really want a Bluto anymore?
> 
> Sucks because I have to decide what ~$600 to spend upgrading a Fatboy before I order it this weekend...but I'm not in the mood to fiddle with suspension a ton...
> 
> Are people expecting more "set and forget" options down the road?


I hear tell that for 2016, the Bluto will come with the RCT3 damper stock...or will at least come in a version that includes it.

The people doing lots of fiddling are picky about performance. A lot of people probably wouldn't care about some of the stuff people here are working on tuning out.

The tuning options on RS forks are actually a good thing. People can get it how they like it.


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

Gotcha. So I guess there's some benefit to waiting. Maybe I was just fabricating an air of frustration rather than an air of extreme iterative enthusiasm .


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

I ride my Fatboy real aggressive on trails, and I have zero complaints about the Bluto. Add a couple tokens, get the pressure right (like any fork) and it is a great fork. With a huge tire up front it doesnt even need to be as smooth feeling as a Pike, it just needs to work. Not sure what all the complaining is about.


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

Sweet.

So from your perspective as a bluto owner, if I'm picking up a stock Fatboy SE and have around 600-700 to put into it (financing, might as well lump it in for 0% interest and I'd budgeted for the base fatboy which I don't want really) should I just grab the Bluto along with the bike and wait on the rest (besides tubeless)? 

My wife is cool with me trickling money into stuff over time, but large purchases are harder to sell and I won't want to regret not going bluto. So I could conceivably just hang onto it and pick up a 150mm hub a few weeks later even...

If I didn't go bluto I was thinking of putting the money into front/rear surly Buds (our trails are very often slick or muddy here because of frequent rain), a new lightweight seatpost and saddle, 1x10 with big rear chainrings (lots of steep crap here), and shimano brakes and rotors. Not sure if Bluto and Tubeless off the bat would be better, then trickle that other stuff in.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Harold said:


> About to dive into my Bluto this afternoon. Couldn't find any crush washers in quantities less than 50, so I'm going to replace the seals, wipers, and all that while I'm at it (using the kit that came with my Bluto) so I can use the crush washers in the kit.
> 
> FWIW, I was talking to some SRAM reps last night at the shop and one of them mentioned that switching to Slick Honey shortens the service interval on the Bluto, but that lots of employees at their local office do just that with their RS forks. Also, a local shop owner I talked to today uses Slick Honey in his, and has since he bought his Bluto.


Funny I just took my 2016 Fox 34 and I am 99% sure they are using Slick Honey on the air shaft and the service interval is now longer on the Fox than the RS I believe.
Edit: oh and on a side note I had a little of the red damper fluid in my lower when I serviced mine this morning.


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

A bluto is by far the best upgrade I've done to my fatboy. It now has a dropper, tubeless, 1x drive train and SLX brakes and rotors, but Id take the Bluto over all that.


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

I recently put a Bluto on my Beargrease and it was like getting a whole new bike.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bdundee said:


> Funny I just took my 2016 Fox 34 and I am 99% sure they are using Slick Honey on the air shaft and the service interval is now longer on the Fox than the RS I believe.
> Edit: oh and on a side note I had a little of the red damper fluid in my lower when I serviced mine this morning.


The guy I spoke to wasn't a suspension tech, so there's that. Also, he specifically said 25hr instead of 50hr, which after looking at the manual, is pretty much just a fluid change. Considering that the recommended service intervals are usually pretty conservative anyway, I'm not worried.


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## Kuttermax (Sep 4, 2011)

Windigo said:


> I recently put a Bluto on my Beargrease and it was like getting a whole new bike.


Definitely agree with this. I have the Bluto on my dropper equipped Beargrease XX1 and it makes it a much better summer trail bike.

My next move is to try a 29+ wheelset on the Beargrease/Bluto combo.


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

Well, hell, I'm convinced. As much as I hate to do it...

Now if I can just figure out if there's a 135mm thru hub I can use with adapters to have fork flexibility to go rigid or bluto with the same wheel... (planning on split tubeless).


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## Mr. Lynch (Jun 11, 2010)

2 buddies and I all thought the same thing, but once you get the Bluto, you lose all desire to go back to rigid!


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

How much travel did you all get?

Of course part of me wants the 120mm since I feel like I can back it down if I need to. My only worry with that is the abundant uphill switchbacks around here....

But I also have a monstercross bike if I want cross country geo and small tires! I'm 6'4" and 250 though so it's not the coziest ride.

I'm going to feel real goofy if I blow the accessory budget on the bluto and leave the horrible mechanicals on there...but I guess I can hold out until my birthday for better brakes!


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

Well, I ended up heading over to the LBS at lunch. Ordered the 120 RL.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Finished everything up this evening and got the new settings to a starting point. Very intriguing that by changing the damper, changing the grease, and using 7.5wt oil instead of 5wt oil, I'm using 70psi to get 20% sag, whereas previously, I was using 100psi. I have 3 tokens installed, and have been using 3 tokens for awhile. I did not change the number of tokens when I changed the damper.

Just in the yard, small bump compliance is WAY nicer. Very pleased with the results.

FWIW, the language in the tech docs can be a little misleading. When choosing the oil volume for the damper side, I used the oil height instead of volume. I don't have a good way to directly measure oil volume. The syringe I was using is old and the volume marks are worn off. I have a small tape measure that has a metric scale, so that was easier. I measured 75mm using the tape as a dipstick. Which directly measures the HEIGHT OF THE OIL in the fork. The damper wasn't doing anything. I racked my brain all day on this. I watched a bunch of vids, and I saw an older one where the RockShox tech measured the oil in a big graduated cylinder.

So I figured out how to do the volume. My Stans syringe is a 100mL volume. I wasn't going to measure fork oil with it, but I measured out some water. I squirted that water into a glass jar and marked the level with a sharpie. I poured out the water, and then dried the jar thoroughly.

Then, I used my little fork oil syringe to pull the oil out of the fork and place it into the jar. Not even half as much oil as I needed (106mL according to the docs). So I got more oil, and filled the jar to the mark I made. Then I transferred that oil to the fork. Voila, the damper works!

Curious, I figured I'd measure the amount of empty space inside the fork. It didn't really coincide with the 71-77mm measurement, either, so I'm not quite sure what the doc is referring to. Going by volume is the way to go.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Nate did you take a good measurement after you had the 106ml in?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bdundee said:


> Nate did you take a good measurement after you had the 106ml in?


I probably should have done a good dipstick measurement of the oil level, too, but I did not. I just checked the space to the top, and it was in the ~50mL neighborhood. It was hard to get an accurate measurement because it was hard to see when my measuring tape began to touch the top of the oil.

At the time, I was more interested in finding out if the damper would finally work, as I've probably installed and removed the thing over a dozen times since yesterday fiddling with and checking the oil level.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Harold said:


> At the time, I was more interested in finding out if the damper would finally work, as I've probably installed and removed the thing over a dozen times since yesterday fiddling with and checking the oil level.


Boy have I been there, do you get a very firm lockout now?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

bdundee said:


> Boy have I been there, do you get a very firm lockout now?


Yep. The "pedal" setting is noticeably different, but still firmer than the "open" setting.

It's probably a little firmer than I typically like, to be honest. I'll probably use THAT setting for long, grinding climbs and keep it open mostly otherwise. I'll be fiddling with the low speed adjustment a bit to see what I like on the trail.


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## NH Mtbiker (Nov 6, 2004)

Harold said:


> So I figured out how to do the volume. My Stans syringe is a 100mL volume. I wasn't going to measure fork oil with it, but I measured out some water. I squirted that water into a glass jar and marked the level with a sharpie. I poured out the water, and then dried the jar thoroughly.
> 
> Then, I used my little fork oil syringe to pull the oil out of the fork and place it into the jar. Not even half as much oil as I needed (106mL according to the docs). So I got more oil, and filled the jar to the mark I made. Then I transferred that oil to the fork. Voila, the damper works!
> View attachment 992485


Great write up on this man! ^^^^
Based on your experiment and testing of the final rebuild....how much oil do you estimate was needed for the damper? Seems to me the RS manuals are off a bit and you found the actual amount (less than 1/2 of 106ml) stated in their docs. Like you, I've been setting the sag around 20-25 % with 90-105 psi and not the best small bump compliance with stock and no tokens installed yet. Hope to pull her apart this fall and do it right. Also, would you recommend Enduro Seals for the replacement? Used them before, but the kit does not come with an upper foam seal that absorbs the oil and keeps the uppers lubed. Instead, they come without it and recommend using stancion oil frequently to keep em from sticking. Worked fine, but not sure if its best for the Bluto. Thnx!


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## CurtP (Mar 2, 2014)

Pyrex Griffin beakers are ±5% and are cheap. Class A "to deliver" graduated cylinders cost more, but are more accurate. The Pyrex 2023-100 100ml is ±0.5ml, about the same as a buret (but nowhere near as cool). The graduations on the plastic 100ml syringe I bought were nowhere close.


IIRC, using the oil height method requires measuring from the crown race seat, not from the top of the stanchion tube. It's a PITA to measure with a crown race installed and why from there instead of the stanchion tube is beyond me.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

NH Mtbiker said:


> Great write up on this man! ^^^^
> Based on your experiment and testing of the final rebuild....how much oil do you estimate was needed for the damper? Seems to me the RS manuals are off a bit and you found the actual amount (less than 1/2 of 106ml) stated in their docs. Like you, I've been setting the sag around 20-25 % with 90-105 psi and not the best small bump compliance with stock and no tokens installed yet. Hope to pull her apart this fall and do it right. Also, would you recommend Enduro Seals for the replacement? Used them before, but the kit does not come with an upper foam seal that absorbs the oil and keeps the uppers lubed. Instead, they come without it and recommend using stancion oil frequently to keep em from sticking. Worked fine, but not sure if its best for the Bluto. Thnx!


I used the extra seal kit that came with my Bluto. It has the foam washers and the wipers have little pockets for grease to keep things well lubricated. The stock seals/wipers work fine for me so far.

I did run across this, and I'm intrigued by the concept.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/258021526/the-sentinel

As for how much oil, I think you misunderstood me. I used 106mL, as stated in the documents. Going by "oil height" measured with the dipstick method resulted in far too little oil. Less than half of the required 106mL.


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## soarftb (May 18, 2015)

How does the Bluto dampening effect interact with the cushioning you get from the fat tires? Does the Bluto negate it, work with it or is there no difference versus rigid? Do you keep your tires at the same psi with a Bluto? Thanks for any info.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

soarftb said:


> How does the Bluto dampening effect interact with the cushioning you get from the fat tires? Does the Bluto negate it, work with it or is there no difference versus rigid? Do you keep your tires at the same psi with a Bluto? Thanks for any info.


The idea behind suspension on a fatbike is that it negates some of the bouncing you get from fat tires. I have a Bucksaw, so I get that benefit both front and rear. So it adds to the cushion you get from fat tires, while also negating some of the negatives you get from fat tires.

I never owned a rigid fatbike so I can't say much regarding tire pressures before and after. I can say that at higher pressures, the bouncing of fat tires in tech terrain can suck on a rigid bike, and is part of why rigid fatbike riders will ride pressures so low, even in summer. I have settled on about 9-9.5 psi for hardpack conditions with suspension. I can haul on the downhills without any self steer, but have enough cush for the bumps.

FWIW, I had installed a 3rd token in my Bluto prior to my damper upgrade. I think I'm going to pull that token back out, and go back to 2 tokens. I'm getting absolutely fantastic small bump compliance, but full travel isn't really there for me when I have bigger hits, even with the fork fully opened up.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

So curious, I just bought a bike with a Bluto on it, and it is my first suspension fork. Until now I've always run rigid forks. 

I do all of my own service on my bikes, but reading the Bluto service manual, it's way different than anything I've ever done. 

Out of the box, is there anything that is totally necessary to ensure a functional and long lasting fork?


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

One tip: wipe the stanchions down after every ride. You don't want to let some grit scratch the seals.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Bluto is a really simple fork, watch a couple of Youtubes videos on how to service them to get an idea of their internals.

But mainly just make sure you have the right air pressure for your weight, and the rebound is set correctly, other than that, ride ride ride!


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

What rebound setting should I have my Bluto set at? I'm 200 pounds and have the 100mm.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

It's personal preference but obviously having it maxed out on slow or fast can be pretty gnarly if riding hard.

Think i have mine 4 clicks from the slow setting.


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

Ok thanks, I have mine at 3 clicks from slow. Was just wondering about ballpark setting to start from, I know so many that buy their bike and what ever setting it's at from the factory they leave it at that thinking it's good to go.


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## devans (Apr 27, 2015)

Overall i don't notice my Bluto while riding which is great because that means it's working well.

From the factory it was maxed out rebound on fast setting haha, it was a pogo stick!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Windigo said:


> What rebound setting should I have my Bluto set at? I'm 200 pounds and have the 100mm.


You need to figure that out for yourself. Depends too much on your preferences, your riding style, and where you ride. I have mine set at 4 clicks from the fast setting.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

Slow_Thyroid_Bike said:


> How much travel did you all get?
> 
> Of course part of me wants the 120mm since I feel like I can back it down if I need to. My only worry with that is the abundant uphill switchbacks around here....
> 
> ...





Slow_Thyroid_Bike said:


> Well, I ended up heading over to the LBS at lunch. Ordered the 120 RL.


the Fatboy Pro comes stock with a an 80 MM travel Bluto....120 is going to feel a lot more slack, will raise the front end a bunch, and may void your frame warranty....

The Geo will definitely feel different.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks for the info guys. For the hell of it I asked my favorite bike shop for their opinion and they did say to check the oil levels in the fork before riding it. 

Is there an easy way to do this without taking the entire fork apart and pouring the oil out to see how much is in there? Or am I missing something?

Thanks!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Shinkers said:


> Thanks for the info guys. For the hell of it I asked my favorite bike shop for their opinion and they did say to check the oil levels in the fork before riding it.
> 
> Is there an easy way to do this without taking the entire fork apart and pouring the oil out to see how much is in there? Or am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!


Use a big syringe with graduated markings. Or, a small one and transfer the fluid to a container with appropriate markings. But yeah, you have to take it apart to check fluid levels.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

After watching a video on the Reba fork and reading the Bluto manual 4 times, I think I have it figured out. I bought me some oil and a tube of Slick Honey, and a fork syringe with a long tube. 

Doesn't look that hard but if there's a way to screw it up I'll find it so be prepared for a lot of questions!  

I'm figuring on not having to take everything apart. Just remove the top caps, pull the compression damper out and pull the rebound damper down right? The air side looks easy enough to just pull out, wipe down, and regrease. 

Pardon me if I'm still missing something.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Shinkers said:


> After watching a video on the Reba fork and reading the Bluto manual 4 times, I think I have it figured out. I bought me some oil and a tube of Slick Honey, and a fork syringe with a long tube.
> 
> Doesn't look that hard but if there's a way to screw it up I'll find it so be prepared for a lot of questions!
> 
> ...


If all you want to do is check the damper fluid level, then all you need to do is pull the right side top cap and measure the fluid. Keep in mind, however, that there is also a little fluid in the bottom of each leg, and you won't be able to check it this way. In fact, I don't think you can "just check" the amounts of that oil without draining it and replacing it.

Also, if you're talking about replacing the grease, you will probably want to pull the air shaft and the rebound shaft, because those items are also greased. And for doing the grease, you can't even replace the grease on the wipers unless you pull the lowers off (and drain the fluid in the bottom of the lowers). And at that point, you might as well pull the air shaft and the rebound shaft because you've already done 3/4 of the work.

I was pretty hesitant the first time I pulled apart a fork (a 2003 Fox Float RL). It was unfamiliar, but not difficult. I think the Bluto is actually a bit easier in some respects. Just keep things clean, and be careful not to nick or damage anything that slides or seals.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Thanks for the info. My biggest concern as you mentioned is nicking or scratching something important. I'm pretty confident in being able to pull it all apart and line everything back up.

The air side looks easier and I had planned to totally take that apart.

The oil side looked like I'd be able to just depress the rebound damper all the way and dump the oil out, but if I'm tearing it apart I might as well go all the way.

I pretty much figured on dumping all the oil and just replacing it with the correct amount so I know that it's at the right level.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Stupid question, if I'm taking the fork apart, do I need to replace the o rings seeing as how they've all been compressed already?


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Shinkers said:


> Stupid question, if I'm taking the fork apart, do I need to replace the o rings seeing as how they've all been compressed already?


If it's a new bike/shock, then no. I rode my new Bluto for a few rides and then tore it down and removed the red goo they call grease and lubed it back up with Slick Honey and reused the original parts. The fork came with a rebuild kit, but I saved that for when it needs it.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Okay. It is a new bike.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Shinkers said:


> Okay. It is a new bike.


I debated on it for mine. I probably didn't HAVE to, but I wanted to make sure I assembled it exactly correctly, with new crush washers. I cracked into the included seal kit for the crush washers, and figured I'd go ahead and replace all the o-rings anyway, since I had put about 400mi on the fork already.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

I probably had less than 30 miles on mine.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Okay guys, I have one more question and then I think I'm ready to rock. You've all been very helpful, and I'm very appreciative of all the info you guys have given me. 

Reading the service manual and watching a few videos, I'm still a bit unclear on adding oil to the lowers after reassembling the fork. The RockShox manual says to angle the fitting of your syringe so that the fluid will only contact the inside of the lower legs. I'm assuming this basically means don't get fluid inside the air shaft or damper shaft correct? Basically turn the nozzle so that the oil goes into the fork leg but doesn't shoot or splash into either shaft, then push the lowers up until you can thread the bottom bolts in correct? 

Thanks again so much guys. Bike gets here tomorrow so I'll be hitting the shop tomorrow night after work.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

If you're talking about the 5 ml of oil then no. You should have the fork back together and ready to screw the bolts back into the very bottoms of each leg. Before you do that, put 5 mls of oil into the holes the bolts thread into. That's why you need to tip the fork past level so the oil won't come back out. Screw in the bolts and you're done. Make sure you get the rebound bolt on the correct side.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Ok, just reread your post. Pull the upper fork up just enough so you can get the oil in and then push them back down so you can install the bolts.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

So the oil does go into the holes they thread into (inside the shafts?)

And yes I am talking about the 5ml in the lower fork legs.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

No oil inside the shafts.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

That's what I needed to know, thanks.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Okay HELP! Screwed up and spilled some of my 5wt oil for the upper leg and ended up with 96ml of oil. I ended up adding 10ml of the 15wt I still had to get the whole 106ml in there. Will 10ml of a different wt be okay? Both oils are Rock Shox oils.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Shinkers said:


> Okay HELP! Screwed up and spilled some of my 5wt oil for the upper leg and ended up with 96ml of oil. I ended up adding 10ml of the 15wt I still had to get the whole 106ml in there. Will 10ml of a different wt be okay? Both oils are Rock Shox oils.


You effectively made 6wt oil (5.9433), might slightly increase the dampening but I doubt you would notice.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

Using the red band on the fork, where would it be at the end of the ride if you had actually bottomed out?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Jester7677 said:


> Using the red band on the fork, where would it be at the end of the ride if you had actually bottomed out?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


Let all the air out and compress it as far as it will go, that will tell you where the bottom is for sure.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Paochow, thanks! That makes me feel much better, I'll leave it alone. 

So basically I'm done with the rebuild side of it. I slick honey'd the air side and swapped the oil in the oil side. Everything went swimmingly other than knocking the oil over. 

I pumped the fork up to 135 psi for my 200 lbs and even though I don't have it mounted on the bike yet, it feels incredibly stiff. I guess it is only supposed to sag 10-20% with my weight on it though which is about what I'm getting if I press on it (not on the bike yet, just clipped into the block that goes on the axle that the fork comes with). 

When I tried to put the lowers on the first time, the air shaft was pulled up in the leg and I couldn't get it to come down until I unscrewed the cap on the top of the leg and pulled it down with the cap and tokens out of the leg. Normal? 

Also, when I move the compression knob, there's 6 indents for the knob when you remove it, but with the knob on 5 of the settings feel solid and the 6th (last) one doesn't feel as solid as the rest. 

Other than that it was a lot easier than I thought it'd be. I worry about scratching either of the shafts, but don't recall dinging either one with any tools. 

Thanks for answering all my questions. You guys have been awesome.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

bdundee said:


> Let all the air out and compress it as far as it will go, that will tell you where the bottom is for sure.


I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask... 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Jester7677 said:


> I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


yes, that's really the answer.

There should be a somewhat gradual increase in compression damping ("stiffness") on the fork as you turn the knob towards the lock position. If it's not behaving quite that way, fluid levels are probably not exactly where they need to be.


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## radair (Dec 19, 2002)

Jester7677 said:


> I did that and I was able to compress to the point where the red marker was pushed all the way to the top. Is that really the answer? Forgive me, history shows I'm an "over torqued it" kinda guy so I feel compelled just to ask...
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


From my experience, yes. Full travel will push the red indicator o-ring all the way to the top.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

Gotcha, thanks. I'm 200lbs with gear. I went to three tokens, 6 clicks from slow rebound and 115 psi before quickly unscrewing the pump. Was much better and I have about 1 cm of travel that hasn't been touched after my ride where I tried to jump anything I dared and down/up some valleys. I'll leave as is I think. When I get it serviced I'll talk to the LBS about changing fluids.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

2 quick questions for you guys:

Please excuse the newbness here, but should my lock out actually 'lock' out? If I turn the knob all the way to locked, there is still some travel in the fork, and it definitely moves an inch or so if I bunny hop. It does feel stiffer than the other settings though. I was bunny just to get a feel for the fork (my yard is flat). I've heard you don't want to ride too much of the rough stuff locked out because it can damage the seals in the fork, I'm assuming a couple of bunny hops are okay though?

Also, is the fork supposed to be silent when traveling or is it normal to hear it kind of 'whoosh' as it travels? (not loud, but definitely there). 

Thanks!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Shinkers said:


> 2 quick questions for you guys:
> 
> Please excuse the newbness here, but should my lock out actually 'lock' out? If I turn the knob all the way to locked, there is still some travel in the fork, and it definitely moves an inch or so if I bunny hop. It does feel stiffer than the other settings though.
> 
> ...


THe lockout is not a true lockout and you will get movement. As far as noise mine is pretty quiet.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Okay. Wish I could explain the noise better as it really isn't that loud.

And bunny hopping with the lockout on isn't going to like, blow a seal or anything right?

Edit: Just went out and checked and the fork is silent if I just hold the brakes and push on it. If I bunny hop it, there's a little noise as it rebounds when I pull up on the bars but that's all. Hard to explain though. 

Sorry for the newbness.


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

Shinkers said:


> Okay. Wish I could explain the noise better as it really isn't that loud.
> 
> And bunny hopping with the lockout on isn't going to like, blow a seal or anything right?


The lock out is designed to blow off on a drop or big bump to prevent damage to the fork.

The noise.. is this your first air fork?
All my air forks make a noise, like a squish noise.


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

ShredMaster said:


> Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.


I'm about 170 running 3 and it sounds like I ride about the same as you and I might be taking one out. Even on the biggest hits I'm not getting full full travel but I also run a fairly firm air pressure. If I were you I would just try it first. Maybe RS will smarten up and send and extra one or two like they do with the Pikes.


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

Thanks bOb... I think it'll be just right right then. I weigh 145 lbs, maybe 150 geared up.
How bout the rct3? Can one fine tune the compression in each of the modes?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

ShredMaster said:


> Anyone with the 100mm running more than two tokens who weighs 150-160 pounds geared up? I just ordered a factory rct3 100mm bluto and wondering if I should order some tokens. Maybe the two stock tokens and the rct3 damper will suffice. I ride hard, fast, and will boost off any root, rock, bump, or drop the trail offers. I've always had to tune my other shocks and forks in the past specifically for very progressive ramp up to suit my needs. How much fine tuning does the rct3 have?... 3 positions plus ability to adjust threshold in each? Thanks.


I am about 185 or so fully geared up and I WAS running 3 tokens with the RL damper. After I swapped to the RCT3 damper and changed out the grease to Slick Honey, I noticed a pretty major adjustment in air pressures. At that point, the additional progressiveness from using 3 tokens wasn't resulting in full travel use (I was using full travel on bigger hits with 3 tokens on the RL damper). So I pulled a token, and I'm back to 2.

With that said, I haven't had much time to ride it since I did that. It's been incredibly wet this month, so my riding is way down. Hoping to fix that this weekend.

As for the settings, my understanding of the RCT3 damper is that the Low Speed Compression knob functions independently of the main adjustment knob.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

I rode dh on my mutz with the 120 bluto this weekend. 3 tokens 75psi at 180 lbs. It was working pretty well bottoming only on big hits, until something started leaking air. Rebuild kit on the way.... 

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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Curious if anyone is running the 100mm fork with just one token? 

I way 200 lbs and have my air set a little lower than what the chart recommends at about 120 psi. Still have about 3/4" or so of travel that is unused at the end of my rides. 

BTW, I'm really enjoying having a suspension fork. Pretty amazing.


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## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

Shinkers said:


> Curious if anyone is running the 100mm fork with just one token?
> 
> I way 200 lbs and have my air set a little lower than what the chart recommends at about 120 psi. Still have about 3/4" or so of travel that is unused at the end of my rides.
> 
> BTW, I'm really enjoying having a suspension fork. Pretty amazing.


I run mine with three tokens and about 95 psi. Use all my travel and never felt a harsh bottom out.


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

My brand new Bluto fork was rebuilt at the end of April using Slick Honey, but I'm still getting stiction this long after. I thought it would break in or something. It has seen only a little hard riding, but it has seen lots of mud and water. Thoughts?

I have a 2008 RS Recon on another bike. I think the oil might be just a little low as there is no resistance in the first 3-5mm of travel. Despite being undamped in that first fraction of travel, it seems to result in improved small bump absorption, which is noticeable on high-speed chatter. Does anyone do this on purpose? Leave the damping oil a little short? (at least that's what I think is going on in the Recon). It might be cool to try in the Bluto.

-F


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

Anyone have an extra token? ... and can maybe stick it in an envelope to NY?


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

I can PayPal couple of $$ if needed. Thanks.


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## MrPeaski (Oct 5, 2014)

*Which Bluto?*

I'm about ready to swap the stock rigid fork out of my 2015 Farley 6 for a Bluto but undecided which one. I can get either the RL that seems to come with most suspension fatties or the RCT3 version. The RCT3 is about £100 more.

Is the performance of the RCT3 that much better, or would the RL suit. I'm not a particularly aggressive rider and am about 135lbs in weight.

Also would fitting a 120mm affect the geo much, I think the Farley 6 is corrected for a 100mm fork.

As a comparison I run a 160mm Pike RCT3 on my regular bike

Thanks for any input


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

Get the rct3. I have a revelation that I upgraded from rl to rct3 and it's a huge improvement. I'm probably going to go the same route on my bluto soon 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## MrPeaski (Oct 5, 2014)

^^ Thanks

The Pike on my regular bike is the first Rockshox fork I've used for many years so have little to compare it to. Previous years I'd always run Marzocchi forks.


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

ShredMaster said:


> Anyone have an extra token? ... and can maybe stick it in an envelope to NY?


Any extra tokens laying around getting dusty anyone?


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Fleas said:


> My brand new Bluto fork was rebuilt at the end of April using Slick Honey, but I'm still getting stiction this long after. ...
> -F


I had put oil on the stanchions and left it sit over night with no improvement, but it has finally soaked in and smoothed out quite a bit.

-F


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

Ah hell, just posted a thread. Cliffs are that I put a 120mm bluto on my XL frame Fatboy and...well I hate the geometry now. Tried flipping the stem and dropping a spacer and just ended up pissed off halfway through my ride from having to dab every 3 minutes. 

Do I just need to get used to it, or should I go with the factory geometry consistent 80mm?


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm. 

What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?


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## h16 (Mar 27, 2015)

my stock bluto 100mm suffered a reduced travel condition from (I suspect) too much pressure in negative chamber -

that thread is here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/bluto-100m-how-much-travel-really-expect-how-use-sag-gradient-981480.html

My question is this - would an rct3 conversion have any risk of same issue? I don't know the internals of rct3 and have yet to read up on it.

Stock bluto (actually stock bluto seals) are reportedly at risk for this, so borealis/turnagain offers a kit for colder temp operation.

Turnagain Releases Extended Temperature Range Seal Kit for the RockShox Bluto | FAT-BIKE.COM

I did use my bluto with stock seals in temps around -20 f back in mid-winter , so I sure could have experienced the issue - but I believe it wasn't until very recently - in summer temps of 60's to 80's that I noticed the reduced travel problem - which I have attempted to address by bleeding the negative air valve.

Sorry if this is a repeat question/issue


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## Slow_Thyroid_Bike (May 28, 2015)

ShredMaster said:


> 80mm... Although there are many fatboy owners on this thread who are very pleased with the 100mm.
> 
> What is it about the handling that you're not pleased with? Wandering front end on climbs? Font end washing out in high speed turns? Front end lifting on tech steep climbs?


All of it. I just feel like I can't control the bike anymore even on mild chunk either unless it was going down hill, and had to basically dab constantly to the point I had no fun and just went home on the second ride.


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

Question/Comparison regarding the pressures for the Bluto. I'm currently running at 135 psi on the 100mm at about 190 pounds with a full backpack. Usually at 12psi on nates for the summer.

Reading most of the Bluto threads this seems on the high side compared to what most people are running. The thing is anything lower makes me worry about bottoming out. My regular trails don't have any huge drops, but I do tend to barrel down the trail hitting small jumps ,and riding aggressively down rocks and roots. My O ring is usually close to max travel at the end of a ride.

I really like the feel of the fork at 120 psi, but am I simply out of luck? Sometimes I worry bottoming out at 135 psi if I ever have to pass a bit bigger drop. I've only bottomed out twice.Once at 125 psi during regular trail use, and once at 135 psi involving a large foliage covered hole bringing me to an sudden abrupt stop.

I don't want to have to go higher then 135psi.


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## chocolatemoeze (Jun 22, 2005)

^^bottemless token


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Or a failed Damper...



h16 said:


> my stock bluto 100mm suffered a reduced travel condition from (I suspect) too much pressure in negative chamber -
> 
> that thread is here:
> 
> ...


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So, the Bluto, I have had three: 80mm, 100mm, 120mm.

One had a failed damper in two weeks.

Another is not holding air.

The only one that appears to still be working is the one I sold to a buddy.

THEY ALL HAVE STICTION!

Two have been rebuilt and the stiction remains.

Once a better fork comes out, the Bluto should be relegated to BD's.

I bought a Risse Trixxy ($800) for my Fat Tandem, it's burly, it's heavy, but it will also blow away a Bluto!


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.


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## chocolatemoeze (Jun 22, 2005)

AllMountin' said:


> Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.


Too much compression dampening? My bluto behaves the same when locked out.

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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)

The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

chocolatemoeze said:


> Too much compression dampening? My bluto behaves the same when locked out.
> 
> Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met behulp van Tapatalk


It appears that the rebound damper head seal has failed. Lots of fluid drained from the lower after removing the retaining nut, but none from the upper after removing the compression damper. Too much fluid in the lower created a hydro lock situation after an inch of travel.

Apparently not an uncommon issue with rebas, and push can replace the plastic unit with an alloy one.

New basic rebuild kit ordered. Will change out o rings and fluids.


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## chocolatemoeze (Jun 22, 2005)

l3eaudacious said:


> So when I went to order the Token as suggested by chocolatemoeze, the LBS mechanic ,like Nurse Ben, suggested the negative air/failed dampener issue. Went home and realized that in fact my sag would never go below 20% at full pressure. Released the air from the positive, then negative chamber, and the bluto popped right back up. Pumped it up to 150psi for good measure, after a quick ride its still all good. I think the air has to slowly leak in over time, and only becomes apparent down the line. (I assume it slowly leaks in during the action of damping, so each hit just pushed a little extra into the negative chamber.)
> 
> The mechanic mentioned that he has been told that the O-rings in the bluto are inadequate, which is what most people in this thread confirm. I was told that they can be replaced for thicker/larger ones under RockShock's warranty. So for now I have a bandaid by simply releasing air form the negative chamber(takes all but a minute) once in a while. I'll go and see the shop, about replacing the O-rings under warranty.


What I understand is that the neg chamber is auto filled by the pos chamber, by the firts time the shock compresses.

So, in short, the o-rings leaks to much air to the negative airchambers?

That's bad :-( sorry i let you order those tokens then.

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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

Nah, I'll probably end up putting in a third token anyways. Will let me hit a better balance between pressure, and ramp. Thanks for the suggestion though!


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

I'll update the above as it may be useful to someone else. I pulled the lowers today and removed the compression and rebound dampers. What I found was a broken chunk of washer that had become lodged between the damper shaft and the inner oring of the seal head. This let all the oil drain into the lower, causing the hydro lock. The offending washer is the thin one on top of the rebound damper:










I replaced the outer oring with a slightly undersized one I had lying about the house. Slapped 106ml of Mobil 1 ATF in there in lieu of fork oil, and some 75wt synthetic in the lowers. Reassembled, and everything seems to be holding. Fork is smooth, but I don't think the rebound damper is working ATM, since the broken washer exposes an open passage in the damper head. If I replaced the washer, I should be golden. 
I run my rebound damping at the minimum(fastest) setting anyhow, so it's really not a huge adjustment for me. FWIW. YMMV.


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.

Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?

Here is an example of the kind of drops I'm hitting for size reference, and a link to a video clip....

https://vid.me/BL1K


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

I don't think the damping in the bluto is at all great, but I'd guess that any 100mm fork would blow through its travel on a drop like that. 


There are two types of mountain bikers. Those who are faster than me, and me.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Failed damper.



AllMountin' said:


> Any idea why a bluto would suddenly bottom out hard after only 20mm of travel? My 120mm bluto was working fine yesterday, but took it out of the truck and immediately it won't compress and feels like it's physically bottoming after the initial inch of dampening.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yup, hydraulic lock, tends to be progressive, you will find yourself gradually reducing air pressure to adjust for decreasing sag, then one day you'll notice you are no longer using all of your suspension.

I'm sure it could happen on the air side also, but it would not create a loss of travel as significant as a damper failure. Not to mention, if you have air leakage, you got a bad seal.



AllMountin' said:


> It appears that the rebound damper head seal has failed. Lots of fluid drained from the lower after removing the retaining nut, but none from the upper after removing the compression damper. Too much fluid in the lower created a hydro lock situation after an inch of travel.
> 
> Apparently not an uncommon issue with rebas, and push can replace the plastic unit with an alloy one.
> 
> New basic rebuild kit ordered. Will change out o rings and fluids.


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## AllMountin' (Nov 23, 2010)

ShredMaster said:


> Been running the factory rct3 Bluto for a few weeks now. Love how it transformed the bike into a single track slayer but I'm kinda disappointed with the compression damping of the RCT3. I'm running 4 tokens, 110 psi, and I'm blowing through the 100mm travel on aggressive XC style jumps and drops (3'-4'). I only weigh 145 pounds, maybe 153 geared up. I'm already running more than the suggested air in the fork for my weight and I don't want to lose any small bump butterness by adding another 10-20 psi. I'm even blowing through the travel in the pedal mode.
> 
> Who added a heavier weight oil, what was the weight (7.5wt?), and did you notice a huge change in the compression damping after?
> 
> ...


The Mobil ATF is allegedly around 7.5wt, though it doesn't have an actual claimed weight. I've got all of one ride on the stuff. It is rare for me to finish a ride with travel left, but noticed I had most of an inch left after this one. Notable because I hit a fairly heavy staircase drop(maybe four feet to flat concrete), two jump spots(medium tables/gaps with a couple overshoots to flat), and popped a lot of lips around town. Normally the indicator would be topped out. I tried slamming the fork with my full weight repeatedly, but couldn't quite bottom it.

I am on a standard bluto rl with 120mm travel, but the fluid change appears to have increased bottom out resistance, and the fork feels super smooth up top. I was getting amazing pop of the jumps, but my rebound issues may be affecting that.

People report having great success with this stuff, and say it doesn't break down over time as fork oil will. I'll prolly be sticking with it. FTR, I'm 200# and prefer a relatively firm setup, so YMMV. I have stock tokens and run my fork @ 140psi.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Just FWIW, I noticed on my ride yesterday that I had a rather hard "bottom out" of my Bluto on the trail. Checked travel and I hadn't used more than about 65mm. Surprised I hadn't noticed any trouble before. But today, I started troubleshooting. Released air from the negative spring. No difference. Emptied positive air chamber, no change. Started working on the damper side, accidentally compressed the fork too much before I got the damper loosened, and the control rod and two steel bearings shot out, and I got a faceful of suspension fluid. Damn. Managed to find the little balls in my very messy workshop, amazingly enough. Heard one hit the tile and tracked it down quickly enough. Couldn't find the other at first, but started retracing events and found the second right underneath the bike. Thankfully, the spring stayed put inside the rod.

It shot out a good bit of fluid, so I didn't bother removing more. Put everything back together and tested it out, and I managed to get full travel.

I guess I had too much fluid in the damper side, but IIRC, I was getting full travel when I first did the damper swap, too. Not sure what changed. Thankfully it wasn't a difficult fix. Ran through the damper settings and the lockout still works, so I didn't remove too much fluid. Now for a ride tomorrow.


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## ocguy2004 (Jul 12, 2006)

*Coil in Bluto*

Did you ever try the u-turn style coil in the Bluto? Been thinking of trying that too.


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

CurtP said:


> Pyrex Griffin beakers are ±5% and are cheap. Class A "to deliver" graduated cylinders cost more, but are more accurate. The Pyrex 2023-100 100ml is ±0.5ml, about the same as a buret (but nowhere near as cool). The graduations on the plastic 100ml syringe I bought were nowhere close.
> 
> IIRC, using the oil height method requires measuring from the crown race seat, not from the top of the stanchion tube. It's a PITA to measure with a crown race installed and why from there instead of the stanchion tube is beyond me.


Just curious, where did you read that the oil height is measured from the crown race seat? That would be a silly way to measure and no fork , MTB or dirtbike I have ever worked on has been measured that way. The manual states -
"Oil height measurements are taken from the top of the crown surface above the upper tube to the oil."
I take this as the top of the crown just above the threaded portion of the stanchion tubes


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm). 

Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

watermonkey said:


> I've done the slick honey swap, but still seem to be having excessive air migrating to the neg air chamber. After I release pressure from the neg air chamber, the fork returns to full height, then I'll cycle it a few times, and it returns to rest at approx. 5% sag (for the 120mm).
> 
> Somewhere in here before someone stated that RockShox was warrantying the orings as they were undersized, but I haven't heard of that anywhere else. I'm wondering if the turnagain winter klt will overcome this with non-stock oring sizing.


I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. On an earlier visit he told me the negative air migration usually occurs on hard compression, like a bottom out, or close to a bottom out.

This is completely a design flaw in the Bluto, and will only get much worse in the winter months as the O-rings contract. They've essential designed a faulty summer fork for an all-season bike that is expected to be ridden in the winter. Unfortunately I only have two options left, I now have to call and complain to RockShock directly, about my negative air migration issues, or in the end cough up the dough to change the O-rings.

I asked the shop mechanic if I simply rode the fork hard till it completely lost pressure in the winter, would they cover it then, and he said they'd most likely just tell them to release the air from the negative and pump it back up.

Its like you design a car who's suspension is only meant for warm climates, and then come and sell it in Canada with no changes what so ever, and play dumb when the suspensions fail. I understand this is a very niche product, but when we pay premiums for niche products, its with the understanding that they're properly designed for that niche.

All in all I know eventually I'll probably buy the O-rings myself, but I really wish everyone with a Bluto would call and complain. I always try and stay positive, but sometimes if feels like the bike industry is really just doing everything they can to reinforce the image of overpriced alloy and plastic that breaks 4 months in.

The real kicker would be if the newer RCT3 version of the Bluto has thicker O-rings, be nice if that comparison could be done. Then we'd known if either they simply don't care or are trying to play dumb with first gen Bluto owners. Really wish there was some kind of competition in the FatBike Suspension Fork space, might force some actual changes/improvements.


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

Gambit21 said:


> This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.


Nope, even in its current state, I'd take the bluto over any rigid fork without a second thought. The Bluto really turns your fatty into an all-season, all terrain shredder. The stability of a fat tire paired with a suspension is amazing.


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm on the fence - I like rigid and suspension both.
I may wait for the next gen fork and see if I'm convinced about this.

That said I'm no newb, my first suspension fork was the Rock Shox Mag21 in the 90's, and if by this time the forks are still having these kinds of teething troubles and reliability issues...well like I said there's a lot to be said for rigid, all season, pretty much all terrain to boot.
We shall see, but I appreciate your input.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

I want an MRP fat Stage fork!!


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## chocolatemoeze (Jun 22, 2005)

l3eaudacious said:


> I just got back from the lbs, mechanic said Rock Shock would not cover O-rings swaps under warranty since they're form a 3rd party company. .


This can't be right, just can't believe it! For example, some Volvo's had a Renault motor. So, analogue to Rock Shox, you have to buy a new motor yourself when it breaks!

So yeah i would call Rock Shox indeed and give them hell if above is true.

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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Paochow said:


> Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?


Nope. Fork spec'd on bike - no extra o-rings, crush washers, etc.


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

Paochow said:


> Didn't you get a set of replacement o-rings with the fork when you bought it? Are those defective too?


Bluto came as part of the frameset, so no box/parts. Don't know if extra's come in the regular Bluto box. But it wouldn't make a difference, they'd be faulty as well. The problem isn't my specific O-rings, the problem is the type of O-rings Rock Shox chose to use in the Bluto. They're faulty for summer use, and not dependable for winter conditions without having to constantly worry about Negative air migration.

The after market O-ring winter kit wasn't even made to prevent negative air migration. It was made to prevent total air loss in cold conditions, due to the O-rings just letting all the air escape under compression in cold conditions. They're supposedly made from a different compound that doesn't contract like the existing Rock Shox O-rings. Fixing the negative air migration during summer use is just a side-effect of the O-rings also being the proper thickness.


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## SHICKS (Jun 3, 2009)

This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.


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## ShredMaster (Feb 7, 2015)

SHICKS said:


> This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.


I don't think the swap requires the 4 tokens but you'll want them for bottom out resistance. I have a few on hand, PM me if you're interested.


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## SHICKS (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks, I'll let you know.



ShredMaster said:


> I don't think the swap requires the 4 tokens but you'll want them for bottom out resistance. I have a few on hand, PM me if you're interested.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Yes, you need a new air shaft, however the use of tokens is dependent on the ride quality. Tokens take up volume so the compression ramps up faster while preserving small bump compression, so you can have sensitivity without bottoming out.



SHICKS said:


> This is a great thread. I've read the manual, but I wanted to get some real feedback. To swap from 120mm to 80 requires a new air shaft and 4 tokens? I want to swap from 120 to 80 to run it on my fatboy.


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## 03'Darin (Mar 10, 2011)

I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.

I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?

I've read several things over the last few months and am not clear on exactly what to do there.

I have pucks ordered and plan to install 2. Even with the very mixed reviews on here about the 120MM on the Fatboy I opted to go that route. I've ridden a Fatboy with that setup and it feels good to me in the type of trails I ride. I like the idea of less pressure for better small bump compliance with the faster ramping to reduce the chance of bottoming out. 

The fork showed up yesterday and the hub should be here any day. I can't wait to get this together and hit the trails!


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

If you want to keep the original bottom headset, you'll need a new crown race with 45 degree (the one on your carbon fork is glued to it so no way to get it off and swap) (I didn't find it alone so had to buy one bottom headset and use the crown race) Then just insert it on the fork, a little grease, put the fork back in and go!


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## RockyRider (Nov 21, 2004)

03'Darin said:


> I apologize if this isn't the appropriate thread to ask this question but I've looked for the answer and haven't been able to find it. I did read this thread in it's entirety over the last couple days and it's got some tremendous information. It seems like the fatboy bluto owners frequent this thread.
> 
> I got my Bluto and am going to install it on my Fatboy. The one thing I'm not clear about is what do I need to put on the bottom of the steer tube? Do I swap a race or cone off of the old fork? Do I need a new or different one cone, spacer, race or something? Or is it just pull the old fork out and slide the new one in?
> 
> ...


I think you are talking about the crown race on the fork. Assuming you are keeping the same headset then yes you want to take it off the old fork and install it on the new one. Your local bike shop will have tools for this and will charge you a minimal fee for it. Just be aware those are an interference fit and even with the proper tools they can be damaged during removal so you might end up replacing it. My suggestion would be to just spend a few bucks for a new one to put on your new fork so if you ever want to put the rigid fork back on you can. Since you are probably going to have your local shop build the wheel up just have them put a new crown race on the Bluto for a few bucks more


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

FYI if you are installing a Bluto on a Fatboy SE, they use a split crown race so you can easily reuse it without tools. Just slide it off and put it on the new fork.


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## Guy.Ford (Oct 28, 2009)

For everyone looking to shorten there 120mm Bluto Solo air, this might prove helpful RED5 had great success with using a spacer made from PVC pipe http://forums.mtbr.com/downhill-freeride/lowered-totem-solo-air-483642.html


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

That won't work, as there are different ways of balancing the positive and negative chamber on Bluto and Totem. Putting in a topout spacer will prevent the solo air balancing the chambers.


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## fatbiker74 (Nov 18, 2014)

friend of mine would like to upgrade his bluto to RCT3 damper. he just needs to purchase the 'pike' RCT3 damper right? no other parts needed? has it been determined what the correct oil volume is? And a related question -- I've seen a post saying 'factory bluto RCT3' but SRAM's website still only shows the RL version....?


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## VBoothe (Oct 21, 2014)

Not the pike damper. It's the SID damper. You can either get the RCT3 damper (older style) or if you want the dig valve, you need to get a the newer RCT3 damper and rebound shaft.


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## 03'Darin (Mar 10, 2011)

I did a quick 9 mile ride this morning before work. !st ride out with my new 120 Bluto on the Fatboy. After going through this thread a few times I decided on adding two pucks and starting out at 90 PSI. I'm probably about180 geared up. I also dropped the stem one spacer from the factory setup. Here are my initial thoughts.

- I had no issue what so ever with a light front end on steep climbs
- Steering response is a slight bit lazy compared to the stock ridged setup but not a problem at all
- I ran 10 PSI up front compared to around 6 or 7 rigid so pretty much all of the self steer was gone.
- Small bump compliance was good, didn't bottom out but also didn't have any bigger hits. I'm going to play with pressure slightly
- Didn't even check the factory rebound setting and it seemed very good.
- No stiction issue at all
- Realized I can motor through the rock gardens pretty fast with the fork so I now need to up the rear tire pressure a bit to protect the rim

I'm pretty much a set and forget kind of rider. Reading this thread seems to have helped me find the setting I need for the terrain I ride and my riding style. I'll play with pressure slightly but it felt so good I may realize my starting pressure is where I need to be.

As I read this fork completely transforms this bike. If you're on the fence as I was, don't wait any longer to do this upgrade. Each day you wait is another day you'll miss out on all the benefits of this fork. Merlin Cycles is selling the 120 Bluto right now for $386 shipped. That's what put me over the edge. Thanks Merlin!!


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## krapper (Jan 4, 2015)

Help - my bluto is sticky.  

It appears to be sticking on the bushing. It was sticky so I rebuilt the fork thinking maybe the foam rings needed more lube (they did), but when I put the lowers back on, i noticed that it still sticks quite a bit even before the push rods for the air spring or the compression/rebound damper are even engaged. There are two bushings in each leg that make contact with the upper legs. I was concerned that maybe I didn't properly lube these, so I took the fork apart again. I visually inspected the inside of the lowers and didn't see anything that would make me concerned, and I saw oil from the open bath had coated the inside of the legs including the bushings. 

I looked at the uppers and they look ok, too. However could they be bent? or could my bushings be damaged? or and I just missing something obvious. (i am really hoping I am just a dumass, and somebody will say - do this and it will be butter smooth.) 

Thoughts?


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

krapper said:


> Help - my bluto is sticky.
> 
> It appears to be sticking on the bushing. It was sticky so I rebuilt the fork thinking maybe the foam rings needed more lube (they did), but when I put the lowers back on, i noticed that it still sticks quite a bit even before the push rods for the air spring or the compression/rebound damper are even engaged. There are two bushings in each leg that make contact with the upper legs. I was concerned that maybe I didn't properly lube these, so I took the fork apart again. I visually inspected the inside of the lowers and didn't see anything that would make me concerned, and I saw oil from the open bath had coated the inside of the legs including the bushings.
> 
> ...


Did you notice if the inside of dust seals had grease? If they were dry and you didn't re-grease them I could see that being source of stiction. I use slick honey on the seals when servicing the lowers.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

How many miles/hours are on said Bluto?


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## krapper (Jan 4, 2015)

@ kwarwick - I did grease the seals. I was out of slick honey, so I used so lithium grease I had available. I plan to rebuild before the season with the ETR kit, so I wasn't too concerned as I only used the lithium grease on the seals. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't think so as it seems really stiff when I first engage the lower bushing with the uppers when reassembling the fork. Prior to that when the wipers are fully wrapped around the uppers, it moves smoothly. 

The reason I was taking the fork apart because it hadn't been performing well. I had determined that the first thing I needed to address was the fact that I had air trapped in the lower. I determined that because when I let all of the air out and I still had a fully extended fork that would rebound. 

@bdundee. I rode on it from last november. 3-4 hours/week in the winter. Less starting in May. So maybe 75 hours? I rebuilt it once in February because it was very sluggish in cold weather. I didn't do the ETR, but I rebuilt with slick honey. That helped. 

It's working much better after the recent rebuild. I got the trapped air out and I made sure I had 5 ml of oil in each leg. I used RS 15 wt. But its not supper smooth. I still get a bunch of stiction compared to my reba xx. I don't expect it to be xx calibur, but really the difference should be in damper. I know the reba is dual air, and the bluto is solo - so the springs are not the same, but I wouldn't expect a solo air to be sticky.

I may just have to rebuild again with the ETR kit and make sure I SRAM butter the heck out of everything.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

krapper said:


> @ kwarwick - I did grease the seals. I was out of slick honey, so I used so lithium grease I had available. I plan to rebuild before the season with the ETR kit, so I wasn't too concerned as I only used the lithium grease on the seals. Maybe that's it, but I wouldn't think so as it seems really stiff when I first engage the lower bushing with the uppers when reassembling the fork. Prior to that when the wipers are fully wrapped around the uppers, it moves smoothly.
> 
> The reason I was taking the fork apart because it hadn't been performing well. I had determined that the first thing I needed to address was the fact that I had air trapped in the lower. I determined that because when I let all of the air out and I still had a fully extended fork that would rebound.
> 
> ...


Hmmmm... tough call. I know my first Bluto RL seemed pretty sticky too... never took it apart to figure out why as I ended up replacing it with a newer RCT3 model. The RCT3 seems better, but still not as smooth as my other RCT3 forks (Revelation, SID).

I think that some of the perceived stiction might be due to the tires on a fat bike, having so much more air volume and less pressure, tend to compress a lot before the shock is forced to move. This inertia makes it seems like the fork is stickier.... just a theory.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Have any of you had issues with the QR? I have a Salsa Hub with QR and noticed today when I would rotate the QR to release the axle, nothing happens, it just spins (QR)
Funny thing is the fork was just brought in for a tune up to my LBS and now I'm having issues with the QR. Talk about BS!!
Besides taken it back to the LBS, what else can I do to release the axle?


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## krapper (Jan 4, 2015)

Nash04 said:


> Have any of you had issues with the QR? I have a Salsa Hub with QR and noticed today when I would rotate the QR to release the axle, nothing happens, it just spins (QR)
> Funny thing is the fork was just brought in for a tune up to my LBS and now I'm having issues with the QR. Talk about BS!!
> Besides taken it back to the LBS, what else can I do to release the axle?


Make sure the QR is engaging the notch in the end cap of the maxel. The notch is big and hard to miss. It's the notch that turns the threads of the TA, not the QR. The QR will spin freely.

Check out this video: 




Also I found quite a bit searching for Maxel removal.


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## krapper (Jan 4, 2015)

kwarwick said:


> Hmmmm... tough call. I know my first Bluto RL seemed pretty sticky too... never took it apart to figure out why as I ended up replacing it with a newer RCT3 model. The RCT3 seems better, but still not as smooth as my other RCT3 forks (Revelation, SID).
> 
> I think that some of the perceived stiction might be due to the tires on a fat bike, having so much more air volume and less pressure, tend to compress a lot before the shock is forced to move. This inertia makes it seems like the fork is stickier.... just a theory.


Well I rode 10 miles off road today. This is the first chance I have had to get the fork on some dirt. It works much better. There is still some stiction, but it is much less now than before, and seems less after riding than before. I think riding helped distribute the oil in the open bath. Or maybe its all in my head? 

Thanks for the quick replies. I am still going to do the ETR kit for this winter. Hopefully this will prevent the air lock I experienced.


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## Nash04 (Dec 24, 2012)

Duh! Talk about feeling like a Dumb Ass, guess that what happens when you get older...you forget!! LMAO Thanks



krapper said:


> Make sure the QR is engaging the notch in the end cap of the maxel. The notch is big and hard to miss. It's the notch that turns the threads of the TA, not the QR. The QR will spin freely.
> 
> Check out this video:
> 
> ...


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## CurtP (Mar 2, 2014)

tvan said:


> Just curious, where did you read that the oil height is measured from the crown race seat? That would be a silly way to measure and no fork , MTB or dirtbike I have ever worked on has been measured that way. The manual states -
> "Oil height measurements are taken from the top of the crown surface above the upper tube to the oil."
> I take this as the top of the crown just above the threaded portion of the stanchion tubes


I think you're right - somehow I interpreted it to be from the fork crown race seat. I probably thought that because the fork crown isn't even all the way around. I went by volume, but now may go back and take a height measurement.


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## WhiskeyJr (Jul 3, 2014)

I know this sounds pretty crazy, but has anyone put bottle mounts on a bluto?


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Have to use hose clamps to fasten them on. Bike packers and other tourers have done this to suspension forks for years.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

OK, I've had 2 Blutos now and had the same issue on both, they both worked fine at first, but then after a VERY short time air apparently migrated into either the neg air chamber or the lowers, causing the fork to stick a little when first compressed but then drop to about 1/2 travel with NO real increase in linear force application. 

From what I'm reading flipping through this thread, it's that RS just messed up and undersized the O-rings? Not riding in the cold, just 70 and sunny in San Diego. Love the Bluto when it's working fine but honestly RS should have recalled these POS's.... aside from this issue the fork performs fine. Bought the one fork as OEM from Bikesdirect.com so I'm a little leery of the PITA it will probably be to have my LBS warranty it for me- I'd rather just fix it myself- especially since I bought the 2nd fork used. Should the Turnagin Orings solve the issue? Thanks!


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

Both my brother and myself have the Bluto 100mm both pumped up to 120psi. On mine the sag is about 17% but when I push down hard on the bars I can get the red ring to go to the top, but when I get on my brothers bike sag is around 30% and I can't get the red ring to move to the top.
Any ideas why 2 Bluto's set up the same would be performing so differently?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

You have air in the outer legs. This needs venting


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

The one that bottoms out more easily?


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## Maine_Rider (Jan 23, 2011)

Paying $55 for three o-rings, two crush-washers and some lube - makes me wonder what exactly I'm supposed to be using the lube for.

I suspect all they did was spec alternative material o-rings (viton VS buna) or something similar.

Turnagin - sorry, but @ $55, I'm not going to be using your lube.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.


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## Windigo (Jul 24, 2014)

hssp said:


> You have air in the outer legs. This needs venting


How do you do that?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Windigo said:


> How do you do that?


Let air out of fork, compress it (if there is air in it it should be hard to push down the last bit) Insert pointy end of zip tie between seal and stanchion to let excess air out.


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## Paochow (Jul 23, 2014)

Maine_Rider said:


> Paying $55 for three o-rings, two crush-washers and some lube - makes me wonder what exactly I'm supposed to be using the lube for.
> 
> I suspect all they did was spec alternative material o-rings (viton VS buna) or something similar.
> 
> Turnagin - sorry, but @ $55, I'm not going to be using your lube.


I agree, reminds me of my KTM motorcycle days when one KTM fuel pump O-ring was $45 and a bag of 12 of the same was $9 at Grainger. If someone had the size and type, I'd be willing to be sourcing the individual parts would be significantly cheaper.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

lyleberry said:


> So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.


I'm in the same boat as you on this. There has to be a problem with the seal head on the air spring causing this. It has gotten so bad that I don't even want to ride my mutz because of how bad the bluto is.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

If i remember right, from this tread, it's caused by the grease that is too sticky and blok the hole so the air get trapped in the bottom. SLik honey does the thing.


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## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

new8812 said:


> If i remember right, from this tread, it's caused by the grease that is too sticky and blok the hole so the air get trapped in the bottom. SLik honey does the thing.


I will investigate that, but I kinda doubt that's what I have going on. I'm assuming the hole you are referring to it the transfer port between +and- spring chambers? 
Even if that is the case the seal head shouldn't be dumping air into the lowers.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

lyleberry said:


> So is there a solution to the air leaking into the lowers or is it just something we all have to live with? Tried to find a RS parts list from 2014 to see if there was any difference between the original o-ring P/Ns and the ones in the 2015-2016 Parts list- but couldn't find a prior year Parts list.


I recently fixed a friend's bluto that had air going into the negative chamber causing the fork to "drop" down to about half of its travel. The bluto has the same internals in the air side as the reba, it uses the same orings. I have owned several other rock shox air forks, 2 recons and 2 rebas, and have found air leakage to be a very common problem right off the bat, but very easy to fix. Out of the 4 RS air forks I have owned, 3 have come with faulty orings, causing air to leak into the lowers and pop off the dust wiper on the air side. With my friends case, the faulty o ring was the the one between the positive and negative air chamber. In all of these cases, I just replaced the orings with o rings from the local hardware store, a $2 value, and they have been problem free for years (the bluto is now a couple of months post repair).

I think the orings RS is sourcing are just crappy. When this first happened to me I used the orings that came in a RS kit that was included with a new reba and the fix only lasted a couple of weeks before the air was leaking into the lowers again. I now only use orings from the local hardware store and also lube the orings and shaft with park lube polylube when changing them. I have a reba that has now been running for almost 2 years with these orings and does not loose any air whatsoever. I removed the lowers recently to change the bath oil and there was no air escaping when tapping in the air side bolt of the lowers, so no air has leaked to the lowers in quite some time.


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## urmb (Oct 4, 2005)

So what happens if you remove or add tokens to the bluto? My 80 mm has two tokens stock. I have a new 100mm air sleeve and a bag of tokens ready to install. Not sure of which way to go more or less tokens.

Thanks, 

urmb


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

abelfonseca said:


> I recently fixed a friend's bluto that had air going into the negative chamber causing the fork to "drop" down to about half of its travel. The bluto has the same internals in the air side as the reba, it uses the same orings. I have owned several other rock shox air forks, 2 recons and 2 rebas, and have found air leakage to be a very common problem right off the bat, but very easy to fix. Out of the 4 RS air forks I have owned, 3 have come with faulty orings, causing air to leak into the lowers and pop off the dust wiper on the air side. With my friends case, the faulty o ring was the the one between the positive and negative air chamber. In all of these cases, I just replaced the orings with o rings from the local hardware store, a $2 value, and they have been problem free for years (the bluto is now a couple of months post repair).
> 
> I think the orings RS is sourcing are just crappy. When this first happened to me I used the orings that came in a RS kit that was included with a new reba and the fix only lasted a couple of weeks before the air was leaking into the lowers again. I now only use orings from the local hardware store and also lube the orings and shaft with park lube polylube when changing them. I have a reba that has now been running for almost 2 years with these orings and does not loose any air whatsoever. I removed the lowers recently to change the bath oil and there was no air escaping when tapping in the air side bolt of the lowers, so no air has leaked to the lowers in quite some time.


This is really good to know, I'll probably end up doing the same. RS has dropped the ball on these O-rings royally. Only question would be, are plain old o-rings OK for winter use? Or do they have to be a specific material? I guess its research time.



urmb said:


> So what happens if you remove or add tokens to the bluto? My 80 mm has two tokens stock. I have a new 100mm air sleeve and a bag of tokens ready to install. Not sure of which way to go more or less tokens.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> urmb


100mm with 3 tokens is quite good. Plush enough for the small stuff, and don't have to worry about bottoming out on harsher landings.


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

urmb said:


> So what happens if you remove or add tokens to the bluto? My 80 mm has two tokens stock. I have a new 100mm air sleeve and a bag of tokens ready to install. Not sure of which way to go more or less tokens.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> urmb


Basically they make the fork more progressive to so it doesn't bottom out on bigger hits yet able to run a lower psi to help in small bump compliance. There is no set number on how many to use it is more rider specific for what you weigh, how you ride, and how you want your fork to perform.

Here's what I do starting with no tokens. Set the sag in whatever rider position you want, beat the crap out of it, and if you don't use all the travel or close to it release a little air and repeat. If it bottoms out to easy add a little air, if feels to harsh after adding air go lower psi and add a token or two and beat the crap out of it again and check travel and feel


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## dabu11et (Sep 8, 2015)

I just got the bluto but it came with no manual and I don't know how to adjust it. What is sag and how do I adjust it?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

dabu11et said:


> I just got the bluto but it came with no manual and I don't know how to adjust it. What is sag and how do I adjust it?


Watch/read this it will give you a good idea.

How to set up a suspension fork - video - BikeRadar USA


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## dabu11et (Sep 8, 2015)

bdundee said:


> Watch/read this it will give you a good idea.
> 
> How to set up a suspension fork - video - BikeRadar USA


thanks, I set it up to 80 psi and 3 clicks from slow but it feels stiff still and I'm about 160 pounds. I'm not getting full travel. How do I set compression? Do I need a tool or just turn the blue knob?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

dabu11et said:


> thanks, I set it up to 80 psi and 3 clicks from slow but it feels stiff still and I'm about 160 pounds. I'm not getting full travel. How do I set compression? Do I need a tool or just turn the blue knob?


Sag is just a rough starting point, take it for a ride and lower or raise pressure till you get desired ride.
Then:
Here's what I do starting with no tokens. Set the sag in whatever rider position you want, beat the crap out of it, and if you don't use all the travel or close to it release a little air and repeat. If it bottoms out to easy add a little air, if feels to harsh after adding air go lower psi and add a token or two and beat the crap out of it again and check travel and feel


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

*Slick honey is rebranded slickoleum*

FYI, her in Qc, we can't find the Honey anywhere but just found out that it's Slickoleum rebranded, which we can easily find here. ;o)


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

I'm looking to add a remote lockout to my Bluto and was wondering if anyone has done the same. I have the poploc remote, I just need to understand what I need to purchase fork side (remote Motion Control Knob for PopLoc)

Thanks!


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

Archangel6 said:


> I'm looking to add a remote lockout to my Bluto and was wondering if anyone has done the same. I have the poploc remote, I just need to understand what I need to purchase fork side (remote Motion Control Knob for PopLoc)
> 
> Thanks!


I'm pretty sure you need to replace the entire compression lock mechanism to the remote lock version. You can't just convert the knob. It should be easy, but it isn't cheap. Last time I poked around they were going for $80-100. Did a quick eBay search and don't see any for sale, might need to get your lbs to order.


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## Archangel6 (Sep 16, 2008)

Figures - couldn't be that easy could it?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

I was just searching around for a 100 mm air shaft to reduce travel from 120mm for winter riding. Apparently, air shafts are now available in 80mm, 90mm, 100mm, 110mm, and 120mm, so now you can really fine tune your travel preference. Treefort bikes had all the different sizes listed.


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

*120mm Bluto stiction solved!*

I have a 120mm Bluto RL on my Foes Mutz and have been underwhelmed with its performance to say the least. It has always had a ton of stiction on initial movement along with inconsistent damping and bottoming. My first rebuild included switching to Slick Honey grease and 7wt oil set at highest level and no Tolkens. It was a big improvement but I had noticed something odd while I had it apart. The damper shaft has a groove around it at the top where it is clamped to the valve body, this is what holds them together, nothing strange here until I realized that when the shaft is fully extended (topped out) the inner o-ring on the white plastic seal assembly sits in this groove and causes the initial stiction. You can feel it just by sliding the seal up and down, its nice and smooth until it reaches the top and the inner o-ring seats in the groove and makes it harder to slide back down. 
I recently bottomed my fork pretty hard on a 4' drop off and it never felt the same so time for another rebuild. This time I decided to address the o-ring issue so I installed another small o-ring at the top of the shaft to keep the seal from traveling up far enough for the inner ring to fall into the groove. Problem solved, the fork is so much more responsive and smooth. I know this only has an effect on bumps after the fork has fully extended but to me its noticeable throughout the ride not to mention it was almost impossible to set the sag properly. Now the fork moves with the slightest pressure on the bars and settles into 20% sag nicely. I also used 10wt oil set to 70mm height, no air spacers and I get full travel with no wallowing or diving like it was originally. 
I assume this isn't a problem with shorter travel settings since the seal wouldn't come close to the groove.


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

The top pic shows the additional o-ring I installed, you can see the groove above it that interferes with the inner o-ring of the seal. I the pushed it past the groove so it rests against the spacer. Now the seal doesn't travel up far enough for the inner o-ring to fall into the groove. 
For suspension fork newbies, the chrome shaft is attached to the lower fork leg and moves up and down with the lower legs and wheel, the white seal sits at the bottom of the inner leg and keeps the oil from draining into the lower leg. The piston at the end of the shaft is what does the actual damping as it moves through the oil
It actually feels like a normal fork now. At first I thought it was designed like this for a reason but I cant imagine why. Its so much better this way


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## Gambit21 (Feb 6, 2015)

Smart fix - I can't say I'm impressed with Rockshox R&D lately.


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

tvan said:


> The top pic shows the additional o-ring I installed, you can see the groove above it that interferes with the inner o-ring of the seal. I the pushed it past the groove so it rests against the spacer. Now the seal doesn't travel up far enough for the inner o-ring to fall into the groove.
> For suspension fork newbies, the chrome shaft is attached to the lower fork leg and moves up and down with the lower legs and wheel, the white seal sits at the bottom of the inner leg and keeps the oil from draining into the lower leg. The piston at the end of the shaft is what does the actual damping as it moves through the oil
> It actually feels like a normal fork now. At first I thought it was designed like this for a reason but I cant imagine why. Its so much better this way


Awesome info. I have a lot of stiction with my 120mm. Setting sag is impossible. And getting the fork to be plush and resist bottoming is impossible. I added 2 tokens, but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

What size o-ring did you use


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

anyone have any leads to the Turnagain seal kit? I messaged them on Facebook and got no response. 

Universal doesn't have it in stock. 

Winter is almost here (Toronto) so i need to do something with my fork


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

Swerny said:


> anyone have any leads to the Turnagain seal kit? I messaged them on Facebook and got no response.
> 
> Universal doesn't have it in stock.
> 
> Winter is almost here (Toronto) so i need to do something with my fork


I don't think the turnagain kit is available anymore? I haven't seen any updates or ebay listing in a long time. Plus their website is non existent anymore.

I've been thinking about buying the standard full Bluto service kit and measuring all the O-rings. Then go an purchase silicone versions form a supplier for a small cost, that will fair better in the winter. I assume this is what Turnagain/Borealis did. The grease that comes withe kit though is just plain old slickoleum, your local MEC should have it in stock for $20.

I've also been thinking of switching up the oil in the fork, since the first few 0C days have already altered the way the fork functions noticeably. I've always been a service manual spec kind of guy, but looking into fork oil for winter it seams viscosity isn't as straight forward.

I'll do some more reading, but could someone recommend a good oil for winter? I think the current RS oil is just re-branded Maxima suspension oil for moto suspension. Looking into its specs it looks like it doesn't fair that well in low temp with a low pour point.


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## SuperFat (Nov 15, 2015)

I hope some of you can help me.

I am about to buy my first FatBike, and I'm trying to decide if a Bluto Fork is a good idea or not. 

I'm 300lbs+ and I'm getting into FatBiking so that I can get exercise and lose weight. 

At my weight, I am not going to be a speed demon. I'm not going to be doing wild jumps. But the trails I'll be riding are desert washes and rugged trails with lots of bumps, rocks, sand, loose dirt.

My elbows/shoulders aren't what they used to be, and I'd like to ease some of that abuse.

BUT! I don't want to waste the money on a Bluto if it won't handle my weight and/or if it will be a huge pain to maintain it.

So based on all of that, do you think a Bluto is a good choice for me?

Thank you.


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## k1sm3t (Nov 25, 2015)

**

Can anyone tell me why I cannot get more than 30% compression?

The Bluto will not take any more air!


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

k1sm3t said:


> Can anyone tell me why I cannot get more than 30% compression?
> 
> The Bluto will not take any more air!


You need to release all the air from the negative chamber, and pump up the bluto again. Explained and detailed earlier in the thread : D.


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## k1sm3t (Nov 25, 2015)

I flipped the bike, removed the hex nut, extinguished all air, and re-filled until I could no longer pump.

Still maintains 30%. 

I'm confused - this was my first ride with the fork too! 

(side note: I have a HV pump and not a shock pump - possible issue?)


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## Maine_Rider (Jan 23, 2011)

Is it under pressurized? You could be releasing all air upon disconnect with a reg pump.

That - or your air is immediately leaking to the opposite side and fork need service.


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## k1sm3t (Nov 25, 2015)

Not pressurized (meaning the fork is stationary with zero weight). 

Seriously my first ride with the form, albeit on snow, I still shouldn't have bottomed out? Right?

Serviced out of the box? Or do I have a defect fork?


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

I believe you may be mixing up terms, adding to others confusion in helping you.

No weight on the bike, just leaning up against the wall. You pump it up and the fork is sagged to 30%?

First off, what pressure are you putting in it? There's a reference chart on the back of the fork leg to get you in the ball-park for your specific weight.

You mention not having a shock pump. Don't want to say that it's impossible with a regular pump but damn hard to do easily.


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## k1sm3t (Nov 25, 2015)

bme107 said:


> I believe you may be mixing up terms, adding to others confusion in helping you.
> 
> No weight on the bike, just leaning up against the wall. You pump it up and the fork is sagged to 30%?
> 
> First off, what pressure are you putting in it? There's a reference chart on the back of the fork leg to get you in the ball-park for your specific weight.


I may need to acquire a shock pump in order to sufficiently test/measure the appropriate pressure going into the shock.

I am only able to pump enough air into shock to acquire 30% - nothing greater - shock does not sag at this point. My initial ride (without adding any air) resulted in all air deflating.

I need to acquire 120-135psi for my weight and it looks like I cannot acquire such a psi without a shock pump.

Does that sound about right? Thank you for your advice thus far, a bit of a learning curve with air shocks!


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Sounds like you definitely need a shock pump. You got to pump it up to reach the 0% mark with no weight on it.

Pumped up to the appropriate pressure, with no weight on the bike, the reading on the stanchion should be 0%. Then you push the red ring down to the 0% and then get on the bike. Your weight on the bike pushes the red ring up to the sag 25-30% amount. Adjust air pressure to get near this amount of sag. From there you go ride and see how it feels. 

If you finish and the red ring is slammed to the top of the stanchion you've maxed the travel and need to sort out if you need to limit that in some way so the lower doesn't keep bottoming out on the upper. Think about the ride, was it one big atypical hit or continuously bottoming out? Options are to add more air or add a bottomless token.

If you finish and you're not coming close to the top then you're shorting yourself travel and the fork should be tuned the other direction to gain that back.


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

Just got my Bluto converted from 100 to 120mm and added the Turnagain kit. Now it does a top-out klunk when manualed. Any ideas?

Thanks!


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## kbk (Jun 5, 2006)

Hi everyone,

I'm super digging on all the info here on this thread. Hey, so I have a question about oil viscosity changes. Seems like some folks here are dropping down oil viscosity for winter riding which (apparently) reduces the dead, flabby feel of the fork. So, I just want to make sure I've got this right. You are leaving the 5wt oil in the compression circuit (the top right part of the fork) as the stock 5wt. But in the bottoms of each leg, you are using 5 ml of 7.5 wt oil instead of using 5 ml of 15 wt oil. Is that right? And the idea behind this is that it speeds up rebound? Do you do anything at all to manage compression? Normally, I run compression full open in the summer. Do you guys change anything for the winter? Also, has anyone tried the 0-30 wt oil that is used in Pikes? I've got some of that lying around and wonder what it might do. Thanks for any input!


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

PCT said:


> Just got my Bluto converted from 100 to 120mm and added the Turnagain kit. Now it does a top-out klunk when manualed. Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks!


I wonder if you pos and negative chambers didn't equalize correctly?


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## PCT (Jun 29, 2009)

bdundee said:


> I wonder if you pos and negative chambers didn't equalize correctly?


Ethan of The Flow Zone got it sorted out. Some of the process was beyond my ability to fathom, but sounded like it needed more air pressure on the damper side to prevent the top-out. Also put in a different weight oil to work better in cold temperatures, swapped out a few o-rings that had some imperfections, and tuned the pressure/rebound. Bluto is running very well now!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Now that folks have been riding these awhile, anyone had a problem with the external cam on the Maxle Lite thru-axle wearing out? When I transport my fatty in my car, it mounts to a Kuat Dirtbag inside the car. On my wife's car, it goes on a Kuat NV with the wheel on. Usually I transport the bike in my car, so the front wheel goes on and off fairly often.

I have noticed that the external cam has been wearing out (you can see bare metal on the parts of the cam where there is friction) and it takes SIGNIFICANTLY less force to open or close it. It's not quite to the point where the lever will flop open, but I decided to order a DT RWS thru axle to replace it. I've had good results with RWS skewers in the past, so figure this will be a good option.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

The cam is adjustable via a small allen in the center of the axle ( open the lever and it's a straight shot to it)
I have had to tighten mine 2 clicks in the last year of riding...and I have to take my wheel off to get it in.
All you are seeing is the anodizing wearing off and everything stretching a little



Harold said:


> Now that folks have been riding these awhile, anyone had a problem with the external cam on the Maxle Lite thru-axle wearing out? When I transport my fatty in my car, it mounts to a Kuat Dirtbag inside the car. On my wife's car, it goes on a Kuat NV with the wheel on. Usually I transport the bike in my car, so the front wheel goes on and off fairly often.
> 
> I have noticed that the external cam has been wearing out (you can see bare metal on the parts of the cam where there is friction) and it takes SIGNIFICANTLY less force to open or close it. It's not quite to the point where the lever will flop open, but I decided to order a DT RWS thru axle to replace it. I've had good results with RWS skewers in the past, so figure this will be a good option.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

the mayor said:


> The cam is adjustable via a small allen in the center of the axle ( open the lever and it's a straight shot to it)
> I have had to tighten mine 2 clicks in the last year of riding...and I have to take my wheel off to get it in.
> All you are seeing is the anodizing wearing off and everything stretching a little


I will tighten mine for now, but that's not an ano finish. I might buy that the wear I'm noticing is mostly paint, but I've never really been a fan of the external cam Maxle Lite, anyway.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

Question about Bluto RCT3. What does the silver dial on top of the blue compression setting dial do? I can't find the info anywhere.


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

Rebond control


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

new8812 said:


> Rebond control


Isn't that controlled by the red knob at the bottom of the fork?


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

It's the same: the rct3 permit you to control it on top. ;o)


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

new8812 said:


> It's the same: the rct3 permit you to control it on top. ;o)


So if I turn it up top, the bottom turns too? Get out... I'll go try that. Not like it's needed IMO...

Thanks for the info!


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

;o)


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

Jester7677 said:


> Question about Bluto RCT3. What does the silver dial on top of the blue compression setting dial do? I can't find the info anywhere.


Read this and you will know about the RCT3 damper.

FAQLoad - Rockshox RCT3 damper


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

new8812 said:


> It's the same: the rct3 permit you to control it on top. ;o)


WRONG!
It's the low speed compression....( it even says that right on it)
When the blue lever is in "Open mode" it allows you to adjust the compression damping
When in the "platform mode" it allows adjustment of the platform( this has the most effect)
Rebound is the red know on the bottom


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

So....is the RCT3 worth the $105 over the stock damper?


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## BIke N Gear (Sep 27, 2004)

the mayor said:


> WRONG!
> It's the low speed compression....( it even says that right on it)
> When the blue lever is in "Open mode" it allows you to adjust the compression damping
> When in the "platform mode" it allows adjustment of the platform( this has the most effect)
> Rebound is the red know on the bottom


Does anyone find this works well? On mine, if I have the LSC knob turned on even one click it turns the platform into a lockout.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

Harold said:


> I will tighten mine for now, but that's not an ano finish. I might buy that the wear I'm noticing is mostly paint, but I've never really been a fan of the external cam Maxle Lite, anyway.


The purpose of the lever is to expand the swedge to keep the maxle from loosening. It's not like a regular quick release that clamps the wheel.
1 click of the adjustment is probably all you need. A few drops of lube like Dri-slide or Tri Flow on the cam and swedge keep this working smoother

If you don't like the Maxle lever, DT was working on a RWS axle for the Bluto. I don't know if it's out yet.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

BIke N Gear said:


> Does anyone find this works well? On mine, if I have the LSC knob turned on even one click it turns the platform into a lockout.


Something isn't right there.
On the 3 I have here....it is very gradual


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

not2shabby said:


> So....is the RCT3 worth the $105 over the stock damper?


Maybe???
I have both.
The RCT allows tuning of the pedal platform....which I like.( this may come at the expense of some small bump compliance)
As far as function,in the open position, they are about the same.


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## Jester7677 (Jun 19, 2008)

majack said:


> Read this and you will know about the RCT3 damper.
> 
> FAQLoad - Rockshox RCT3 damper


Ok, so, to set up the shock to smooth out the smallest of bumps, turn the silver top knob to the left, to keep it firm, turn it to the right. Is that the thought?

Many thanks for the clarification.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

So I just did a service on my Bluto. The Bluto would stiffen up quite a bit as soon as you hit around freezing 1c ~ 0c or just bellow freezing at -1c ~ -2c, and become really hard at - 5c ~ -10c. With this in mind I decided to avoid using the oem Rockshox oil and opted for some Lucas Synthetic Moto Fork oil in the same stock weights.

I gotta say the difference is drastic at around freezing there's pretty much no noticeable reduction in performance, and the shock only starts to stiffen up just a tad at -10c. The Bluto finally feels like a proper winter fork. Another positive is that the lbs sells the Rockshox oil for $10 ~ 100ml but the Lucas oil is $8-9 for 473ml.

The Lucas oil was the most readily available at the local generic auto store, since there's no moto store near my location. I wonder if snowmobile suspension fluid would be even better?

Oh and my stock damper was about 5ml short of fluid vs service manual, and there was little grease in the fork and absolutely no grease by the wipers. The foam rings are small in the Bluto and were almost bone dry after 8 months. So I'd say do service earlier rather then later.


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm trying to service my Bluto right now but can not separate the lower tube from the upper tube. I released the air out of the top of the fork, removed the rebound adjuster, and both bottom bolts. Am I missing something here?


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## bdundee (Feb 4, 2008)

Did you tap the lower bolts after you loosened them up sum. I can't rember what I used on the Buto, maybe a long Allen on one side, can't rember the rebound side.


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

bdundee said:


> Did you tap the lower bolts after you loosened them up sum. I can't rember what I used on the Buto, maybe a long Allen on one side, can't rember the rebound side.


Yeah, I tapped the allen with a mallet for both bolts. I'm wondering if I need to strike the allen harder with the mallet?


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

Mine need a good whack, I use a Allen socket with an extension and give it a good smack


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## hicksjerry (Dec 14, 2014)

Ducman said:


> Mine need a good whack, I use a Allen socket with an extension and give it a good smack


That was it. Had to hit it a little harder. Thanks for the help everyone.


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## jimbo08 (Apr 30, 2013)

'-5 degrees celcius and can feel my SID rct 3 stiffening up both slow compression/ rebound. I put my money on Bluto not working when temps dip below -30 without fluid mods.'

At -30, either Celsius or Fahrenheit, unless your running the Ididarod, I don't see many of us out riding anyway.


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## alshead (Oct 2, 2007)

Anyone have a 120 air shaft that they swapped out or want to unload? Actually looking for two of them...


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

I was tuning up my bike the other day and decided to change the cable and housing on my remote lockout lever. The housing had cracks and the cable end after the anchor point was a bit short.

With the cable detached the spool springs back into closed position (locked out). I pulled out the locking button, strung the new cable, lubed the button mechanism with some slick honey and installed new housing and ferrels. I pulled the cable taught and anchored the cable. There is no slack in the cable. When I push the lock button in (to unlock the fork) it won't stay in the locked position.

I searched the SRAM Rockshox pages for the service manual but it seems this 2015 lockout lever has been replaced by the OneLoc. So, what am I missing? The internals of the lockout button were in good shape and worked before I changed the cable.

**update - I can't find any further information on the Pushloc lever so I removed it and locked the spool into open position by dead ending a cable with the head in the housing guide ring, turned the spool to open and cinched the cable with the set screw. It works for now but I'm really interested in understanding how the lever is supposed to lock? There seems to be just two moving parts and the cable but there are no detents or mechanisms in there I can detect to hold it in the open (pushed in) position.

Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?


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## mix123 (Sep 2, 2015)

How is everyone setting things up for snow riding?

Should the sag be a bit more and if so how much and why?


Rebound more or less and why?


Compression more or less and why?


Would my tire pressure be more than someone without suspension.



Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk


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## new8812 (Aug 14, 2014)

I'd say just check the air pression, which will fall because of the cold and go! We have a 100 and a 120 here and didn't touch anything than the psi and everything is very smooth. As for tire's pressure, it's the condition of the snow that is dictating it, not the Bluto.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

Or you could lock it out if riding smooth snow trails and just run low air pressure in the tires.


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## CObikeman (Nov 25, 2014)

Just a data point here. I picked up a Fatboy Expert that already ha a Bluto RL on it - 100mm. I was not convinced I was keeping it (Fat bike is the winter/snow steed only - seem sto usually ride between 10 and 30F) and was considering putting a carbon fork back on - until I converted the fork back to 80mm per Specialized geometry and installed the Turnagain cold weather seal kit (which I ordered in late December). Kit is awfully expensive for what it is - but have to say now the fork feels great all the time. Definitely not taking it off.


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## DisappearHere (Mar 6, 2016)

Not sure this is the right thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some info about the brake post mounts on the Bluto. What size rotor does the bluto take as standard (160 or 180)? I am wanting to run 203mm rotors and need to know what size to adapter to buy.


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## Punisher (Jan 17, 2016)

DisappearHere said:


> Not sure this is the right thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some info about the brake post mounts on the Bluto. What size rotor does the bluto take as standard (160 or 180)? I am wanting to run 203mm rotors and need to know what size to adapter to buy.


Mine came stock 160 so I had to use a 20mm post to post bracket when I upgraded to 180.


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## l3eaudacious (Jul 14, 2015)

DisappearHere said:


> Not sure this is the right thread for it, but I was wondering if anyone could give me some info about the brake post mounts on the Bluto. What size rotor does the bluto take as standard (160 or 180)? I am wanting to run 203mm rotors and need to know what size to adapter to buy.


I'm using a 203 up front paired with Guides and the standard 200mm Avid bracket. 3mm of spacer washers between bracket and caliper mounting flange, works great.



CObikeman said:


> Just a data point here. I picked up a Fatboy Expert that already ha a Bluto RL on it - 100mm. I was not convinced I was keeping it (Fat bike is the winter/snow steed only - seem sto usually ride between 10 and 30F) and was considering putting a carbon fork back on - until I converted the fork back to 80mm per Specialized geometry and installed the Turnagain cold weather seal kit (which I ordered in late December). Kit is awfully expensive for what it is - but have to say now the fork feels great all the time. Definitely not taking it off.


That's just the Slick Honey, or Slickoleum replacing the red military grease. You do have to service more often though, since the Slick Honey/Slickoleum has a shorter service cycle. Probably half of the original service cycle for tacky red military spec grease.


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## DisappearHere (Mar 6, 2016)

Punisher said:


> Mine came stock 160 so I had to use a 20mm post to post bracket when I upgraded to 180.


Thanks for the info. I just finished building my ICT with bluto and I got the adapter as you suggested. Now to experiment with tuning the fork!


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## P_Ceg (May 27, 2015)

After reading through this thread I have become very confused on what part to purchase to convert my stock first gen Bluto to RCT3.... Post 81 gives a link to the damper (I think)

http://www.amazon.com/RockShox-MoCo...ue&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_4&smid=A2TE9IQP68MWQU

is this all I need for the job? I am doing a complete service on the fork and while I have it opened up I want to upgrade.

Thanks!


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## tvan (Nov 27, 2007)

The damper I used was part # 
11.4015.544.070
Nothing else required.


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## P_Ceg (May 27, 2015)

tvan said:


> The damper I used was part #
> 11.4015.544.070
> Nothing else required.


Thanks man...that's the one


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## 2whl-hoop (May 8, 2011)

Couple questions: skimming through this thread, it appears the RCT3 is the preferred fork Has the RL been updated? Why does it cost more?

Second Question: Currently I'm running 15x142 thru axle. If I go with the Bluto I'd need to have the wheel re-dished. Are there any issues with doing this or would I be better off having the wheel rebuilt with a 15X150 hub. I'm think about picking up a leftover Beargrease 2 and setting it up as a summer trail bike with the Bluto.

Thanks.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

I've noticed lately my Bluto seemed to be running a little stiff so I released air from positive and negative sides and pumped it back up. Seems better, but when I check sag, it's only moving a few mm's. I have a 100mm fork, running 3 tokens at 70 lbs pressure and weigh around 185. Any idea why the sag is so low? I'm wondering if my pressure gauge is way off. It seems most people my weight are running higher pressure. I ride some pretty rocky/rooty trails and steamroll stuff at speed and rarely bottom out. Damper problem maybe? Rebuild time?
I have the remote lockout version and the lockout seems to be working fine.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

tvan said:


> I have a 120mm Bluto RL on my Foes Mutz and have been underwhelmed with its performance to say the least. It has always had a ton of stiction on initial movement along with inconsistent damping and bottoming. My first rebuild included switching to Slick Honey grease and 7wt oil set at highest level and no Tolkens. It was a big improvement but I had noticed something odd while I had it apart. The damper shaft has a groove around it at the top where it is clamped to the valve body, this is what holds them together, nothing strange here until I realized that when the shaft is fully extended (topped out) the inner o-ring on the white plastic seal assembly sits in this groove and causes the initial stiction. You can feel it just by sliding the seal up and down, its nice and smooth until it reaches the top and the inner o-ring seats in the groove and makes it harder to slide back down.
> I recently bottomed my fork pretty hard on a 4' drop off and it never felt the same so time for another rebuild. This time I decided to address the o-ring issue so I installed another small o-ring at the top of the shaft to keep the seal from traveling up far enough for the inner ring to fall into the groove. Problem solved, the fork is so much more responsive and smooth. I know this only has an effect on bumps after the fork has fully extended but to me its noticeable throughout the ride not to mention it was almost impossible to set the sag properly. Now the fork moves with the slightest pressure on the bars and settles into 20% sag nicely. I also used 10wt oil set to 70mm height, no air spacers and I get full travel with no wallowing or diving like it was originally.
> I assume this isn't a problem with shorter travel settings since the seal wouldn't come close to the groove.


Hmmmm, are you sure this wouldn't be an issue on a 100mm fork? I seem to be having the same issues; stiction and sag is only a few mm with low air pressure for my weight. Assuming my pressure gauge is accurate anyway.
I think it's time for a rebuild anyway so I think I'll try the extra o-ring and see if it works. Couldn't hurt anything.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

not2shabby said:


> ....... sag, it's only moving a few mm's. I have a 100mm fork, running 3 tokens at 70 lbs pressure and weigh around 185. Any idea why the sag is so low? I'm wondering if my pressure gauge is way off. It seems most people my weight are running higher pressure. I ride some pretty rocky/rooty trails and steamroll stuff at speed and rarely bottom out. Damper problem maybe? Rebuild time?
> I have the remote lockout version and the lockout seems to be working fine.


I have the crown-lock out on a 100mm aftermarket Bluto. For the longest time I couldn't get the low speed knob to even rotate. Once freed up it doesn't seem to make a difference.

I weigh that dressed/geared up, no tokens, 70 psi, 15% sag and just used all 100mm for the first time. I'd never used more than 80mm with 1 token. 2 tokens were worse and all 3 were a joke. It'd ramp so much at the end of the stroke I'd never actually reach full travel with the low psi tires. Tires would squash up first. Just a thought that with many of the same variables eliminated we are experiencing different results with different tokens. They are easy to swap at home.

Older midrange components with a mediocre factory build have resulted in 12 pages of inconsistently poor results. Tough to know exactly what the problems are. Seems many can't even get it to perform as well as its 2.x tire counterpart.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

I'm 190 and run (opps 90psi) psi and get full travel on a 120mm Bluto. Everyone says thats really low pressure, but it doesn't feel to bad and I use about 90% of the travel. I ride it pretty hard on a Mutz too.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

kntr said:


> I'm 190 and run 45-50 psi and get full travel on a 120mm Bluto. Everyone says thats really low pressure, but it doesn't feel to bad and I use about 90% of the travel. I ride it pretty hard on a Mutz too.


How many tokens are you running?


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

That's wierd you can't get it to bottom out with 2 tokens. I tun 4 tokens in mine with like 65psi. I weigh like 195ish with winter gear/lights. I consistently get full travel.

My only complaint is with the amount of stiction i have. I need to rebuild mine with some slick honey, i think. I've just got to get some fork oil. 

Why are people using a heavier weighted 7.5 vs the stock recommended 5wt? I feel like colder weather should be using something like a 2.5wt


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

not2shabby said:


> How many tokens are you running?


Whatever is stock.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

kntr said:


> Whatever is stock.


I believe the 120 doesn't come with any.


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## majack (Mar 10, 2010)

You can go to rockshox.com/service to find out what is in your fork from stock form


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

I'm having trouble figuring out this rct3 damper upgrade. Will the damper from a Revelation fit?


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## gregclimbs (Sep 21, 2006)

With Turnagain gone, does anyone have a source for cold weather orings? Or has RS improved their setup since launch? Just getting a bluto for the first time now...

g


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

tvan said:


> The damper I used was part #
> 11.4015.544.070
> Nothing else required.


Rockshox says this damper is for 120mm, does it also work on the 100mm?

ac


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

not2shabby said:


> I believe the 120 doesn't come with any.


https://sram-cdn-pull-zone-gsdesign...95-4018-007-000_rev_c_bottomless_tokens_0.pdf


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

gregclimbs said:


> With Turnagain gone, does anyone have a source for cold weather orings? Or has RS improved their setup since launch? Just getting a bluto for the first time now...
> 
> g


The kit was a waste.....don't worry about it.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

avc8130 said:


> I'm having trouble figuring out this rct3 damper upgrade. Will the damper from a Revelation fit?


Save yourself the money....it's not worth it.
Biggest difference is putting some SlikHoney in there and the right oil level


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

the mayor said:


> Save yourself the money....it's not worth it.
> Biggest difference is putting some SlikHoney in there and the right oil level


That's disappointing to read. This bluto sucks compared to my pike.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

avc8130 said:


> That's disappointing to read. This bluto sucks compared to my pike.


You are comparing a 100ish travel XC fork with a longer travel, higher volume, heavy duty fork....
Comparing apples and hand grenades


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

the mayor said:


> You are comparing a 100ish travel XC fork with a longer travel, higher volume, heavy duty fork....
> Comparing apples and hand grenades


I can't argue that but the bluto basically sucks. The damping is terrible. I was hoping putting a damper similar to the pike style setup would at least improve it. I was also considering swapping the air shaft to get 120 travel. I realize we can't fix the flex.


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

avc8130 said:


> I can't argue that but the bluto basically sucks. The damping is terrible. I was hoping putting a damper similar to the pike style setup would at least improve it. I was also considering swapping the air shaft to get 120 travel. I realize we can't fix the flex.


First off...congrats on saying "damping" and not "dampening"....
What sucks about it.....that is a pretty vague term.
I found that opening it up.....putting good slippery grease and good oil ( at correct level) made a big difference. More than the swap to the rct3 damper.


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

It's just not plush. It feels under damped no matter how I adjust it. I can't get a balance between small bump compliance and big hit protection.


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## kntr (Jan 25, 2004)

avc8130 said:


> It's just not plush. It feels under damped no matter how I adjust it. I can't get a balance between small bump compliance and big hit protection.


Lower pressure and more tokens.


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## not2shabby (Sep 19, 2014)

If you let all the air out of the top, should the fork collapse and stay down? I just did it to mine and it will still pop back up after I push it all the way down. I'm assuming there's still air in the negative side indicating a leak.


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

not2shabby said:


> If you let all the air out of the top, should the fork collapse and stay down?


No.

There's still air in the top, even at 0 PSI, and it will compress when you push the fork down. Also, the lowers have air in, and while the seals around the stanchions aren't perfect, they'll hold air long enough to make the forks spring up again.

Do the Blutos even have a negative air chamber? (I didn't think so).

If the air pressure in the 'top' is holding fom week to week, then there isn't a leak.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

I have a new bluto and I want to convert it to the RCT3 damper. I upgraded my older 2013 Reba a couple years ago and it made a big difference. However, I upgraded the rebound assembly also, to the shimmed version with dig valve. Do the new Blutos work the same way? Will I need a new rebound assembly and rct3 damper to take full advantage?

Also, is it using the A3 version for a 100mm bluto? Thanks guys.


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

I hope someone chimes in and answers. I'm looking for the same info for a 2015 bluto 120.


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Parts# 11.4018.025.001 and 11.4018.025.002 are what you need.


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Vegard said:


> Parts# 11.4018.025.001 and 11.4018.025.002 are what you need.


Thanks for the info, but those are both coming up with 26 rebound(001) and the 27.5/29 rebound(002). Are they length dependent if I ever wanted to bump my travel? Also, do you know the correct PN for the 2015-2016 rct3 damper? Thanks man!


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## Vegard (Jul 16, 2009)

Oh I pasted the wrong one, I got the numbers stored for future use, but I'm on my phone so it's a pita to doublecheck them  If it wasnt the second one it should be # 11.4015.544.270


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

Vegard said:


> Oh I pasted the wrong one, I got the numbers stored for future use, but I'm on my phone so it's a pita to doublecheck them  If it wasnt the second one it should be # 11.4015.544.270


Awesome! So should we be using the 27.5/29" rebound, or the 26" rebound? I assume 27.5/29 since it's longer? Thanks man, really appreciate it!


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

My apologies if this is a duplicate post. I typed one and can't find it. Not sure if I failed to hit post or put it in the wrong thread.


I'm thinking about swapping to Slick Honey grease in a Bluto I just picked up. I ride in Minnesota and last year down to temps below 0F. I read through the documentation and it looks to me that I have to drop the lowers to clean out and change grease. And this requires a fluid change and a new crush washer for the rebound speed side. Can someone confirm if there is an easy and quick way to swap to Slick Honey?


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## watermonkey (Jun 21, 2011)

Not a fluid change for the damper side. You do need new crush washers and crush washer retainers every time you pull the lowers. Watch this - it shows exactly what you need to do, tools needed, shock oil amounts, etc. (replacing the orings is optional). Its pretty easy, makes a big difference.


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## voon (Nov 10, 2016)

Does 11.4015.544.270 also fit a 120mm Bluto? I wonder because theres some other upgrade kit (which does not seem to be RCT3) mentioning 120mm forks specifically and the 11.4015.544.270 one mentions 80-100mm for at least SID forks ... it's unclear if this also applies to Bluto?


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## Erock503 (Oct 20, 2014)

I'm using the 44270 damper on a 16' Bluto, along with a 110 air shaft. The new damper assembly was the same length as my original stock RL damper at 100mm, so I don't think it's length dependent.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

I am 149 lbs ready to ride. Bike is an Ibis Trans-Fat. with 120mm Bluto Tire is Jumbo Jim. Terrain is sometimes rock gardens. Pressure in fork is 75 psi as indicated with my Fox pump - which seems to be the correct for preload.

What should I set the two rebound dials on given my weight?


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## the mayor (Nov 18, 2004)

rsilvers said:


> I am 149 lbs ready to ride. Bike is an Ibis Trans-Fat. with 120mm Bluto Tire is Jumbo Jim. Terrain is sometimes rock gardens. Pressure in fork is 75 psi as indicated with my Fox pump - which seems to be the correct for preload.
> 
> What should I set the two rebound dials on given my weight?


There's only 1 rebound dial.....at the bottom of the fork. Ride the bike and set it to where YOU like.


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

the mayor said:


> Ride the bike and set it to where YOU like.


This Fox suspension designer says there are 20 clicks on forks not for personal choice but because of the wide variation in rider weights. He said out of the 20, there are only three clicks that you can select from based on your riding style and preferences:


http://www.pinkbike.com/news/To-The-Point-Rebound-Damping-2013.html

So I really what to know which three clicks are for me to choose from. I have it at click #9 (with 0 being slowest and most damping).

I lowered my pressure down to 65 psi and was not able to make it bottom out.


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## Rumblefish29er (Oct 6, 2012)

Hey gang - I am looking to reduce my travel from 100 to 80mm. Are any extra parts needed for this? I know guys changing to/from 120 need another part but couldn't find anything about 100 to 80.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## rsilvers (Aug 23, 2015)

What is the benefit of reducing travel by 20mm? Can't you get the same effect by turning up the compression damping one click?


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## avc8130 (Jul 9, 2012)

Rumblefish29er said:


> Hey gang - I am looking to reduce my travel from 100 to 80mm. Are any extra parts needed for this? I know guys changing to/from 120 need another part but couldn't find anything about 100 to 80.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Travel is determined by the air shaft. You need an 80mm air shaft.

ac


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## FitmanNJ (May 23, 2011)

Rumblefish29er said:


> Hey gang - I am looking to reduce my travel from 100 to 80mm. Are any extra parts needed for this? I know guys changing to/from 120 need another part but couldn't find anything about 100 to 80.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I recall correctly, you've posted in the past about owning a Wren fatbike suspension fork. Did you get rid of it? Did you encounter problems that caused you to choose a Bluto for this bike?


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## Rumblefish29er (Oct 6, 2012)

FitmanNJ said:


> If I recall correctly, you've posted in the past about owning a Wren fatbike suspension fork. Did you get rid of it? Did you encounter problems that caused you to choose a Bluto for this bike?


Nope wasn't me.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Rumblefish29er (Oct 6, 2012)

avc8130 said:


> Travel is determined by the air shaft. You need an 80mm air shaft.
> 
> ac


Cool thanks for confirming

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rda (Jan 8, 2014)

hi,

I have a bluto on my mukluk, i was wanting to do a service on it, but was looking for advice on any upgrades to do while in. I see people talking about differant dampers and tokens? I am 215-220 without gear, fairly agressive rider, don't really jump though. ride lots of logs and rocky areas.


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## Denis9999 (Feb 17, 2013)

I have one token fitted in my Bluto's.

Weigh 180lbs , found that one token stopped the fork from bottoming out too much whilst still getting all the travel.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

I feel tokens are a must for the Bluto, without them it bottoms out way to easily and harshly. I have not yet brought myself to put some on my bluto but its something I will need to do at some point.

Cheers


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Gambit21 said:


> This thread says a lot about the benefits of a rigid fork.


 Until you have pedal some distance on a frozen, post holed trail.


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## ntm1973 (Jan 7, 2013)

Has anyone converted your bluto into a dual air setup? I had a 2012 dual air reba laying around and fit the dual air spring. I always liked the dual air and I have to say,that the fork feels much better. 

One thing I always disliked about the reba and the bluto is that it seems to develop stiction at about 10hrs. Not terrible but not butter smooth like when it is freshly lubed lower. I use slick honey and keep the stanctions clean. Anyone else notice this?


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

ntm1973 said:


> .....
> One thing I always disliked about the reba and the bluto is that it seems to develop stiction at about 10hrs. Not terrible but not butter smooth like when it is freshly lubed lower. I use slick honey and keep the stanctions clean. Anyone else notice this?


I have noticed this when the fork is due for a lowers maintnance. More than likely your foam rings are dry and/or dirty. When the rings are impregnated with oil, there is always a smooth coating on the stanchions and no stiction that I can tell.


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## ADKMTNBIKER (Nov 29, 2014)

there was a bluto thread about air pressure a while back .just wanted to add that i checked mine today and it's still the same as it was a month ago and the month before that. great forks imo.


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## gregclimbs (Sep 21, 2006)

Rumblefish29er said:


> Cool thanks for confirming


Lemme know if you need a 80mm shaft - I have one unridden that I took out to go to 100mm...

g


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..Hi all, looking for info on bottomless tokens (just picked up a kit).

My Bluto had 2 tokens in place stock, Motobecane Ti Night Train, so I added 1 more for 3 total. I was able to drop the PSI about 20 lbs just playing around in the driveway. I'll have to see what it feels like on the trails soon.

How many tokens can I add total?

Thanks!...


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Check out this chart.
View attachment 980158


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## gregclimbs (Sep 21, 2006)

Now that MRP has a ramp cartridge for 32mm RS, will probably try that out...


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

bme107 said:


> Check out this chart.
> View attachment 980158


THANKS!

So my 100 mm Bluto will need a new air cartridge to be 120? OR just remove the 1st 2 tokens that came w/ the Bluto?

Coming from a long lineage of Lefty's so need to read up on these forks...


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## Utahbikemike (Sep 11, 2014)

Air shafts determine the travel. You have to change the 100mm air shaft for a 120mm.

Tokens determine the ramp-up rate of the air spring. If you're at correct sag and bottoming out then you add a token. It's personal prefrence. I tend to run more sag and more tokens because i like the small bump sensitivity but do bottom out the fork pretty frequently.


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

OK, so I have some questions. I just rebuilt my Bluto rct3, and I am having more stiction now, than I had before I rebuilt it. I used slick honey lube where noted in SRAM manual, I used RS specified fluid and amounts. I didn't lube the lower leg seal as there was already some grease there, and the manual said not to if it was present. 

The only thing that I can think of is my foam rings seemed to be a little damaged when I removed the lowers (the red travel ring fell off and I didn't notice until it was back together). There was a little bit of debris in the lower, so I removed it and checked the foam to make sure there were not loose pieces, then reassembled.

Does anybody have any recommendations on what to check for next?


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

Did you soak the foam rings in oil?


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## spartan_msu (May 8, 2008)

Yes, the rings were soaked in oil prior to installation.


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## Swerny (Apr 1, 2004)

looking for setup advice. 

farley 7, i'm installing an RCT3 100 MM.

I weigh about 210 in my birthday suit. 

From the chart, it comes with 2 tokens. 

Should i be adding a 3rd and/or 4th token? Air pressure recommendations? 

I don't do any jumping. 

Thanks


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## JAGI410 (Apr 19, 2008)

I like 2 tokens in mine, I'm the same weight. Pressure is at about 100 if I remember right. I have sag set to 25%.


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## th1npower (Dec 6, 2010)

..been running 3 tokens at 95-100 psi w/ very good benefit; previously 2 token and 160s.. i'm 180-185# w/ my pack.

riding in all manner of snow, ice, slush, dirt, mud and enjoying the softer set-up 2/ the 3 tokens and the bluto eating up the smaller stuff w/ some bottom-out prevention still.

Great info here, thanks everyone!
Micah


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Just installed an RCT3 100mm, is the PSI chart accurate? Mine is set at 125psi and felt fine without setting sag on a short ride last night.


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## lyleberry (Apr 20, 2013)

200lbs, 100mm Bluto and I run 115 psi with 4 tokens. The Bluto is way too linear and needs the tokens to get reasonable sag without bottoming out.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I have a 2016 Bluto RL with the oneloc remote/damper, I'd like to get rid of the remote and put a RCT3 damper in
Part number 11.4015.544.270?

Have read a few posts suggesting that the rebound damper needs changing to because of the dig valve.
Looking at the spare parts catalog it only lists one rebound damper for the bluto (part no 11.4018.025.011), along with the 4 different compression dampers.

Am I right in saying I only need to swap the compression damper?


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

It is my understanding from what i read in another thread that the rebound damper has been updated in the Pike but have NOT confirmed the new Bluto RCT3 rcvd it as well.

My question is if i buy a new RCT3 Bluto will that include the latest RCT3 "Charger" damper and the updated rebound damper also?

If so, what year or serial#?

In other words when did the bluto get the latest Charger damper and new rebound damper?


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## Misterg (Jul 17, 2014)

There is a "Rapid Recovery" decal on the fork leg of my RCT3 Blutos (down by the rebound damper adjuster) which I *think* refers to the upgraded "dig valve" rebound damper (happy to be corrected).

I believe you can replace the RC compression damper with RCT3 without it being mandatory to also change the rebound damper.

FWIW, I tend to leave the compression damper on mine in the fully open setting, anyway, which makes the RCT3 somewhat pointless


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## carpio77b (Sep 11, 2011)

Does anyone happen to know if the 100 mm 27.5/29 Reba air shaft is compatible for converting the Bluto to 100mm?


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## problypropylene (Feb 16, 2016)

Hi all, I recently bought an RCT3 bluto on ebay. Seller had upgraded from 100mm to 120mm travel, great. It seemed to be working well but I quickly noticed that it bottomed out hard about half way through the travel, even with all air removed. Many threads I read seemed to suggest this was a hydrolock problem caused by oil in the upper damper migrating to the lowers. I expected to find excessive oil in the lower damper, but did not. With the lowers removed I could not push the damper tube upwards very far- leading me to believe the problem was caused by an over filled upper damper. I put 5wt maxima green fork oil at the correct level (75mm from oil to top of threads, tad less than 106cc iirc), maxima 15wt in the lowers, and re-greased everything with Super Slick and all is fine now. I did not replace any seals or o-rings, just the crush washers that attach the lowers. I got a 50 pack of the poly washers and metal washers for about $10 a piece shipped.

This thread with all it's information was very helpful, so I thought I would add to the discussion. Thanks!


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## Keith-OH (Dec 23, 2015)

Well I need some help from you guys. I just installed a 80mm Bluto. On my 2nd ride it will now only return to the 30% mark. How do I fix this? I read about bleeding the air out of the lower. But I have no clue how to do this and I cant find a video online. This is my first suspension bike.

Thanks,

Keith


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## Keith-OH (Dec 23, 2015)

Well I figured out how to bleed the air. I got that fixed waiting to see if it happends again

But I noticed I was bottoming out to often. So I bought some Tokens. I pulled off the cap to install 1-2 and seen it already has 4 from the factory on my 80mm RCT3. Is that normal? How many more can I add?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Check this post http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=13013644

If l was you, ld go back and read the last ~120 posts in this thread, it answers your questions.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

4 tokens max as per Sram/RS manual.

Could be low on oil in damper hence no or little damping.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Anyone know if the current RS bluto service kits have newer (better) o-rings?

Or is it best just to get some at my hardware store?


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## xenologer (Nov 1, 2016)

Hello
building up a new bike with a Bluto
first real suspension fork I've had in general as well.
So questions...

I have the air pressure set so sag is about 20-25%
and this seems fine for riding in general, no pedal bobbing, feels fine dropping off curb heights

but there's one situation where the fork bottoms out consistently - If I do a front brake endo on pavement; rear wheel up in the air, temporarially balanced on the front wheel.
Fork will completely compress then.

*Is that a Normal Expectation for a fork?*
Or should I be tuning to prevent that behaviour? -adding tokens and/or more air pressure

Thanks


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

xenologer said:


> Hello
> building up a new bike with a Bluto
> first real suspension fork I've had in general as well.
> So questions...
> ...


To be honest I dont know, 
but I have my Bluto sag at 15%, and it doesnt bottom out when I do stoppies, compresses about 60 - 70%.
Theres a few variables though. type of Bluto, Bluto settings, weight etc


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## fatbiker999 (Sep 12, 2017)

Hy guys,
I have read, there is a new compression kit available for the RS Bluto!
RockShox Charger 2 RLC Dämpfer Upgrade Kit für SID 27,5/29 Zoll (2012-2016), Reba 27,5/29 Zoll (2012-2017), Bluto - 00.4018.783.003
Has anyone tested this compression kit?

Thanks


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## Zacatac (Oct 10, 2016)

This damper upgrade totally transforms the bluto. It feels much closer to a pike. I think with this damper the only thing that could be complained about is its flex but me weighing in at 170 fully geared it is not an issue for me.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

The charger 2 RLC is far better than the RCT3 damper i presume?

For 250$ what is the real world difference, please.


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## Zacatac (Oct 10, 2016)

I can't speak to the difference between the charger and rtc3 as I upgraded from an rl damper. There is way more small bump compliance as well as support through the whole stroke. Also you can adjust the lsc. Less stiction as well.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Kirkerik said:


> The charger 2 RLC is far better than the RCT3 damper i presume?
> 
> For 250$ what is the real world difference, please.


You'd be crazy to drop $250 on a fork that's only worth $350-400.

You can put lipstick on a pig, but it won't make the bacon taste better.

Sorry, I know there are an arse ton of Blutos owners, so lots of opportunity for arse hurt, but I tell it like I see it.

I've had four Blutos, three Wren, and two Mastodon. I still have have one used Bluto RC3 in a box (for sale!) and two Mastodon (STD and EXT).

The Mastodon actually ride better than a Pike and there is no flex or stiction to speak of.

Save for a Mastodon.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Bluto; where to begin?
Specifically the RCT3 at 100mm purchased separately (not OEM) in 2015, ridden 1,000miles +/-. Weigh 170lbs. Performed fair at best, 'twas easier to arm chair criticize while carrying on with life.

Backstory:
Tried to adjust the air pressure/tokens. Settle on 70psi and no tokens. Odd, but seems to afford me 90% of travel on most rides. After a few months fiddled with the rebound. Attempted to adjust the low speed compression. The knob was stuck. Give up and keep riding weeks. Try again. Give up and keep riding. Which way to turn LSC, is it at either limit or in the middle, I don't know because it was stuck out of the box. Decide to go all in, pray to higher power and twist the sh1t out the the little knob. Finally break the knob free and play with that. Not amazed with it and stiction is seemingly quite high. Uppers are bone dry.

Shockwiz crosses my mind but figure it needs service prior to even attempting to obtain logical suggestions. Buy parts. Get busy with life. 2 weeks ago it loses air pressure in the parking lot pre-ride and has severe brake dive. Pump it up and it's gone again after a few cycles. AKA time for service.

Tearing it down, the foam rings are dry with no hint of oily residue and the wipers have little to no grease tucked away. Decent amount of red grease on the air side bits. Oil level was 70mm as measured after the compression damper was removed. (read: damper dripping wet so there was probably even more volume in there originally) Swap in new bits and re-assemble. 108mL=strong 70mm, next time I'll try 105mL, maybe less.

Get it back on the bike and air up to 70psi. Feels soft just bouncing in the workshop. Maybe this service was most excellent? Front yard ride reveals that I now need 90 psi to get 20% sag and keep from bottoming when rolling off the curb. MotherF'er! Going to have to go back through tuning this to find a baseline. Will it be repeatable next service? Who knows.

/vent


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## DiRt DeViL (Dec 24, 2003)

Any real life experience with this Ramp Control Cartridge - MRP ?


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## Nowork (Aug 10, 2005)

DiRt DeViL said:


> Any real life experience with this Ramp Control Cartridge - MRP ?


I just put one in my bluto but have yet to use it. I took it out of my sid. It made a huge difference in the Sid. I also have them in my fox 32 and 34. They are really good.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I used to feel your pain, I worked my way through all the Bluto alternatives but to no avail, then I bought a Mastodon, what a revelation! Now I have two 

It's not a question of servicing the Bluto, the fork is what it is. When you want more than a Bluto can deliver, you need to upgrade, it's just that simple.



bme107 said:


> Bluto; where to begin?
> Specifically the RCT3 at 100mm purchased separately (not OEM) in 2015, ridden 1,000miles +/


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I used to feel your pain, I worked my way through all the Bluto alternatives but to no avail, then I bought a Mastodon, what a revelation! Now I have two
> 
> It's not a question of servicing the Bluto, the fork is what it is. When you want more than a Bluto can deliver, you need to upgrade, it's just that simple.


Unfortunately I haven't found the limits of what it can deliver. Something's up that it keeps changing. Calling it a lemon is not appropriate, though something was FUBAR out of the box.

I thought I knew what it was, then the LSC freed up. Figured it out again. Then 2 weeks ago in my mind: service, and last ditch effort to tune with SW because maybe I just don't know WTF I'm doing. Last night -> back to square one. Maybe it will work out. Who knows? I've got a whole "new" fork to try out.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I had a Bluto that blew a damper after a week of use, others had stiction issues on and off, quirky damping when cold, but loss of air pressure was never an issue. I did need to use more air pressure and adjust the damper for cold weather use.

When I have brakes that change without reason, it's generally air in the system or it's a SRAM brake 

I'd say the damper has some pollutants or malfunction that causes it to fluctuate, plugging the passages so it's not controlling fork movement.

Air pressure should be constant as long as volume or rider weight are constant.



bme107 said:


> Unfortunately I haven't found the limits of what it can deliver. Something's up that it keeps changing. Calling it a lemon is not appropriate, though something was FUBAR out of the box.
> 
> I thought I knew what it was, then the LSC freed up. Figured it out again. Then 2 weeks ago in my mind: service, and last ditch effort to tune with SW because maybe I just don't know WTF I'm doing. Last night -> back to square one. Maybe it will work out. Who knows? I've got a whole "new" fork to try out.


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Nurse Ben said:


> I'd say the damper has some pollutants or malfunction that causes it to fluctuate, plugging the passages so it's not controlling fork movement.
> 
> Air pressure should be constant as long as volume or rider weight are constant.


It might, not sure. Pouring out the oil nothing was oddly out of color, cloudy or chunky. Suspect oil level was a bit high from the factory. As this was my first ever fork service (which I performed) I did not play around with the damper mechanism when it was in hand. Maybe I should have.

The air thing is why it is so strange to me. What else did I touch in there to "free" things up? No extra parts left on the bench and I replaced each bit one at a time with new seconds after removing the old. Only thing I can think of is that the stiction was so high that 70psi sufficed before whereas now I need 90 for the same support.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

.....


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## teethandnails (Sep 16, 2013)

I bought mine with a messed up rebound shaft used. Just installed a 120mm air spring, rebuilt the damper side and did a service. Rockshox 5wt in the damper, fox 20wt in the lowers, and 4 volume tokens. Just the basic RL damper. I normally run 62psi in my Lyrik 160mm with 2 tokens. I think 4 tokens and 90psi will get my 180lbs down the trail. Will report back. If it sucks... May buy a Manatou Mastedon


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## xenologer (Nov 1, 2016)

Seems like it's common for Blutos, that people are running much lower pressure than what the "Rockshox Solo Air Guide Chart" (printed on the fork lower) usually recommends.

What's up with that? they mess up their own guide?

I weigh 180 and had to put the forks at 80 psi (far lower than suggested) to get the sag right, then 3 tokens to keep from bottoming out.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

xenologer said:


> Seems like it's common for Blutos, that people are running much lower pressure than what the "Rockshox Solo Air Guide Chart" (printed on the fork lower) usually recommends.


Not unique to Blutos, in my experience. Pretty common with Rockshox forks in general.


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Anyone have any spare black tokens?

I could use two I guess.


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## xenologer (Nov 1, 2016)

Hey...

Should I be worried about my Bluto Creaking? Does this during hard front braking, then some more creaking shortly afterwards as the weight comes back off the fork.

I've heard lots of reports of rockshox crown/uppers interface creaking. 
But I've concluded from careful listening while flexing the fork by hand; that this is not the issue.

my creaking sound comes from inside the left leg lowers. 
when flexed forward/back -not from vertical compression/extension of the fork.

never taken this fork apart for service, since its only about 2 months old...
any thoughts on what I should worry about/ what to do?
Thanks


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## Organ (Jan 30, 2004)

*FAST damper for bluto*

After a season of being disappointed with the bluto (and the damper finally failing entirely), I installed the FAST compression damper. The RCT3 was mediocre in every way when it worked. $300 for a charger 2 is way too much and IMO not all that much benefit. I want basic, reliable, predictable performance. Id probably be better off with a mastodon but I really like the Fast charger kit Ive installed on a lyrik so I thought I'd give it a shot. The FAST kit is $150 USD, so still not cheap.

It is far more predictable than the RCT3 and the adjustments are usable. Install takes all of 5 minutes to remove the old and put the new damper in. Tuning low speed is a knob and high speed is done by adjusting shims. I have so far removed one shim in the high speed stack to soften it. I may remove or replace one more. Removing the damper and adjusting shims is again a 5 minute job.

It is definitely an improvement but ultimately the blutos stiffness is a limiting factor (for me anyway). If you are OK with the bluto chassis but hate the damping, the fast damper could be the trick.


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## bikemad1 (Jun 15, 2014)

I have recently bought a fatbike(a Salted rock candy,dual suspension 110 rear travel)and have a 120mm bluto up front.Ive played around abit with air pressure(i weigh about 220 kitted up)and find that the fork feels "shaky" as in like if the headset was loose.It isnt,bike shop checked out the headset.But there seems to be a few mm of play at the very top of the fork,like it will move just the slightest bit,and quite noticable when lifting the front wheel quickly.Doesnt feel to bad when actually rolling fast down a trail and handles jumps and drops allright(did a 3ft to flat on concrete today to see how it was,felt fine,quite plush and didnt bottom out.Will this improve as the fork gets "worn in"abit.Ive probably ridden about 80-100kms on it thus far,and put slick honey on the stanchions twice.Could i put a revelation damper into it?Cheers guys


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## Organ (Jan 30, 2004)

If you are asking about the FAST damper, yes. The factory RCT3 always felt like it had a slight bit of play before the damper kicked in. That went away with the FAST. That was the first thing I noticed, it felt more "solid". The bluto is still a bit flexy and I'm 190 geared up and only have the 100mm. 

The upgrades Im aware of are the charger 2 from a SID, the FAST, and an avalanche damper. FAST only replaces the compression circuit but is cheapest.


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## Saskrider (Jun 30, 2016)

Wanted to share because I didn't find anyone else who could tell me but I fitted my D4s at 10 PSI on 27.5 80mm v2 mulefuts and they clear the bluto. Cant imagine they would rub at riding pressures closer to 6-8 PSI. cant wait to test this new to me rct3 bluto out this spring/summer! At 165 lbs and hodags I doubt it will feel flexy. Never noticed Any of my other light xc forks flex.


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## Cyclotoine (Feb 12, 2015)

xenologer said:


> Seems like it's common for Blutos, that people are running much lower pressure than what the "Rockshox Solo Air Guide Chart" (printed on the fork lower) usually recommends.
> 
> What's up with that? they mess up their own guide?
> 
> I weigh 180 and had to put the forks at 80 psi (far lower than suggested) to get the sag right, then 3 tokens to keep from bottoming out.


I know I'm late to the part but I want to get better performance out of my Bluto so have stumbled across some of these old threads.

The more tokens you add, the lower you should be able to run the air pressure as you've discovered. I seem to be an anomaly; I prefer to run fewer tokens (no tokens usually) and more pressure/less sag. To me this feels like the plushest configuration. This is my experience with my Lyric and my Bluto as well as previous Fox and XFusion forks. I don't understand why people would want to make their fork more progressive unless they are a truly aggressive rider sending big airs all the time. In my experience 90% of us are not that kind of rider. I like to jump, nothing massive, but I am probably 195 geared up and I never have bottom out issues running no tokens. I start with recommended air pressure and check sag as a reference then ride and adjust for feel. Too many people are too reliant on sag to set up their suspension.


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

I think I found a flaw in the upper tube. I was upgrading to a 120mm air shaft and as I was cleaning the upper leg I felt an obvious defect. Is this supposed to be present?

See below and what appears to be a small "punched out" defect. 









UPDATE - I found out that what I thought was a defect is actually supposed to be there to equalize pressure between positive/negative chamber.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Cyclotoine said:


> I know I'm late to the part but I want to get better performance out of my Bluto so have stumbled across some of these old threads.
> 
> The more tokens you add, the lower you should be able to run the air pressure as you've discovered. I seem to be an anomaly; I prefer to run fewer tokens (no tokens usually) and more pressure/less sag. To me this feels like the plushest configuration. This is my experience with my Lyric and my Bluto as well as previous Fox and XFusion forks. I don't understand why people would want to make their fork more progressive unless they are a truly aggressive rider sending big airs all the time. In my experience 90% of us are not that kind of rider. I like to jump, nothing massive, but I am probably 195 geared up and I never have bottom out issues running no tokens. I start with recommended air pressure and check sag as a reference then ride and adjust for feel. Too many people are too reliant on sag to set up their suspension.


Interesting... how is your small bump compliance? Approx what pressure you running w zero tokens?

I wasn't happy w my bluto and factory tokens so I added max tokens and reduced pressure. A definite improvement. I am running significantly lower air pressure.

I may have to give your approach a go...


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

So I have some 29 x i40 rims coming and need to know if the 29 3.0 XR4's fit the bluto.

I can't seem to find any info on the outside dia. of the XR4, published or otherwise. It seems the Dirt Wizards at 761mm will just fit and they are very close to or the same width as the XR4's so MAYBE?

Some help please...


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Kirkerik said:


> So I have some 29 x i40 rims coming and need to know if the 29 3.0 XR4's fit the bluto.
> 
> I can't seem to find any info on the outside dia. of the XR4, published or otherwise. It seems the Dirt Wizards at 761mm will just fit and they are very close to or the same width as the XR4's so MAYBE?
> 
> Some help please...


I just put an i35 with a 29x3 XR4 on my Bluto and it fits fine. My Bluto is only a couple of years old, though.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Thanks Mark,

The blutos I would guess are the same?? I don't know... My bluto from the center of axle to the bottom of the arch brace is 385mm maybe 0.5mm more. Is this what your bluto measures?

Also, the radius of your XR4 please?

From what i understand the chupacabra (xr2) 29 3.0 has a diameter of 768mm or radius of 384mm so it is going to be tight.
Is the fit of your Xr4 tight?

XR2 diameter source:
https://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/29-tire-geometries-974133.html


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Will get some measurements for you tomorrow evening. Just eyeballing my Bluto and XR4, it looks like I have roughly 1/2 inch between the tire and arch brace. 


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

There is a whole thread in the 29+ forum of fatbikes as 29+. Lots of Blutos with pics in there. 

Bluto was a dated fork when it debuted. And fat has been “dead” for several years now. I strongly doubt that there are any variations in the uppers and lower castings over the years.


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Kirkerik said:


> Thanks Mark,
> 
> The blutos I would guess are the same?? I don't know... My bluto from the center of axle to the bottom of the arch brace is 385mm maybe 0.5mm more. Is this what your bluto measures?
> 
> ...


My Bluto is roughly 390mm from the axle center to the lowest point on the fork arch.

The radius of the XR4 is roughly 387 mm, inflated to 20 psi - will likely ride them around 12-15.

Upon closer inspection, the fit is a little tighter than I originally thought when looking at it while standing. When I actually look at the clearance from the lowest point on the center of the arch to the tread, it's only about several mm.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Mark K said:


> My Bluto is roughly 390mm from the axle center to the lowest point on the fork arch.
> 
> The radius of the XR4 is roughly 387 mm, inflated to 20 psi - will likely ride them around 12-15.
> 
> ...


Yes, 390mm is the number i'm getting from the axle center to th bottom of the arch brace (at centerline of fork). I took the wheel off to be sure.

I knew many of the 29 x 3.0 are big including the XR4. I hear it is one of the larger ones. I didn't want to drop two hundo on tires and have a clearance issue.

I have only seen pics of other tires. Surprised TREK doesn't have a tire geometry page. Ridiculous.

Thanks again, Mark!


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Kirkerik said:


> Yes, 390mm is the number i'm getting from the axle center to th bottom of the arch brace (at centerline of fork). I took the wheel off to be sure.
> 
> I knew many of the 29 x 3.0 are big including the XR4. I hear it is one of the larger ones. I didn't want to drop two hundo on tires and have a clearance issue.
> 
> ...


No problem. I bought the XR4 from the gentlemen that built the wheels knowing that the mounted tire might not fit. He was willing to accept it back for full refund if it was too large.

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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

How long has it been mounted? Sounds like they are/were new?


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Kirkerik said:


> How long has it been mounted? Sounds like they are/were new?


Yep, new. Mounted now for about a week - 1st ride will be this weekend.

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## Hillridge (Jan 22, 2010)

How do you measure the airspring to determine length? I have my fork apart for a much needed rebuild, and I can't remember if it's a 100mm or 120mm (fork says 100mm, but I recall the PO telling me they converted it). The manual has this, but nothing matches what I measure for the total length. Are you supposed to only measure the shaft portion or something?


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Mark K said:


> Yep, new. Mounted now for about a week - 1st ride will be this weekend.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


Did you get out for your ride? How'd it go?

Still got clearance Clarence? 

I have been happy with my 100mm bluto and am hoping it's not too close for a decent 29+ tire. Thinking maybe worthwhile to go with an EXT Mastodon but that will change my geo a bit if I want the same 100mm travel and clearance for tall 29+ tires. STD Mastodon won't cut it. Good news is I'd be able to run the Duro Crux w the EXT version (most likely, anyways)! The bluto is significantly lighter and I have not had any noticeable issue w flex as I'm 150lbs or so. However I ride hard enough at times and I would prob notice the improved stiffness of the Mastodon. Doh!


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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Hillridge said:


> How do you measure the airspring to determine length? I have my fork apart for a much needed rebuild, and I can't remember if it's a 100mm or 120mm (fork says 100mm, but I recall the PO telling me they converted it). The manual has this, but nothing matches what I measure for the total length. Are you supposed to only measure the shaft portion or something?
> 
> View attachment 1359169


It's been a while since I had mine apart but I think it is marked right on the airspring shaft itself or somewhere on it. Should indicate what size it is.

When assembled the stanchion reveal should be close to the actual travel provided it's not sagged of course.


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## Mark K (Jul 4, 2018)

Kirkerik said:


> Did you get out for your ride? How'd it go?
> 
> Still got clearance Clarence?
> 
> I have been happy with my 100mm bluto and am hoping it's not too close for a decent 29+ tire. Thinking maybe worthwhile to go with an EXT Mastodon but that will change my geo a bit if I want the same 100mm travel and clearance for tall 29+ tires. STD Mastodon won't cut it. Good news is I'd be able to run the Duro Crux w the EXT version (most likely, anyways)! The bluto is significantly lighter and I have not had any noticeable issue w flex as I'm 150lbs or so. However I ride hard enough at times and I would prob notice the improved stiffness of the Mastodon. Doh!


Yessir. Rode about 30 mi of nice singletrack last week and the wheels performed excellently. No clearance issues with the Bluto and the 29x3 tires.

I increased my travel from 100 to 120 on my Bluto this spring and reduced the number of spacers below my stem to compensate. I've had no issues with the geometry change and am very pleased with the Bluto. I'm also 150# and have never had any obvious issues with flex.

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## Kirkerik (Apr 21, 2016)

Cool! Glad to hear clearance is a non-issue. I was thinking of going 120mm. Will have to give it a try.


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## Bonnie&Clyde (Sep 14, 2020)

*bluto tokens*

Sorry new guy dragging up an old thread But here it goes. Just bought a Salsa Bucksaw aluminum with bluto. I am new to this bike and mnt bikes in general. So if it was called a 100mm travel bluto by salsa can I take some tokens out to lengthen the travel to 120mm? Is it that simple and is it a simple process?

Please and thank you


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## Bonnie&Clyde (Sep 14, 2020)

*Lengthen travel on Bluto*

Sorry new guy dragging up an old thread But here it goes. Just bought a Salsa Bucksaw aluminum with bluto. I am new to this bike and mnt bikes in general. So if it was called a 100mm travel bluto by salsa can I take some tokens out to lengthen the travel to 120mm? Is it that simple and is it a simple process?

Please and thank you
​


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## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Bonnie&Clyde said:


> Sorry new guy dragging up an old thread But here it goes. Just bought a Salsa Bucksaw aluminum with bluto. I am new to this bike and mnt bikes in general. So if it was called a 100mm travel bluto by salsa can I take some tokens out to lengthen the travel to 120mm? Is it that simple and is it a simple process?
> 
> Please and thank you
> ​


You have to swap out the air shaft. Which requires fork disassembly.


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## Bonnie&Clyde (Sep 14, 2020)

bcriverjunky said:


> You have to swap out the air shaft. Which requires fork disassembly.


Thank you ill look further into this


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## bme107 (Jul 23, 2008)

Bonnie&Clyde said:


> Sorry new guy dragging up an old thread But here it goes. Just bought a Salsa Bucksaw aluminum with bluto. I am new to this bike and mnt bikes in general. So if it was called a 100mm travel bluto by salsa can I take some tokens out to lengthen the travel to 120mm? Is it that simple and is it a simple process?
> 
> Please and thank you
> ​


The tokens in the air chamber are used to vary the volume. As mentioned above they do not change the overall travel capacity. They are used to fine tune the fork to your liking along with the air pressure and other dial settings.


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## 2SLOFATASS (Mar 26, 2020)

I have the bluto remote lockout on the bars, but when I engage the lockout, it works fine on the remote, but to turn the lockout off, the second lever binds. Sometimes it works, other times it does not. There seems to be a binding inside the housing. Lube is not the problem, any one experience the issue and solution?


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## Bonnie&Clyde (Sep 14, 2020)

*Follow up*

Ok I watched a bunch of videos on changing the air shaft from 100 to 120 on my bluto. I ordered a 120mm air shaft and some bottomless tokens. Installed the air shaft last night not that difficult and the token check/swap was easy as pie. I am 220lbs plus gear on a Salsa Bucksaw. Now I have the 120mm bluto with 3 tokens. Im running around 100psi in the fork as the recommended psi was way stiff. Im going to put some rides in like this and report back. ANy PSI or token tips for my weight and set up?


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

*Correct seal kit for bluto?*

I'm struggling finding the right seal kit for my bluto, can anyone help? see picture of one seal kit that doesn't have the right size o rings. The seals I removed from air shaft are on the bottom of the picture, identical in size. But the seal kit I bought only has 1 o ring of that size and one slightly smaller (above air shaft in picture).

my Bluto is off a 2018 Trek Farley... it seems maybe bluto designs have changed through the years?

What part number seal kit to you guys think I need?


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## Bonnie&Clyde (Sep 14, 2020)

That looks like the correct kit according to the label on the package. I would use the new seals that are closest in size right above the air shaft. You will be fine. Use grease slick honey or Judy butter. Or use the old seals again. But the new ones will be Ok.


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## hans2vt (Jun 12, 2010)

I found this in a spare parts document from rockshox. my bluto is 2017+ so I think I needed a different part number seal kit. Luckliy I have a 2015 bluto also, so I think I can use the other seal kit for that one.

*• 200h 00.4315.032.640 200 HOUR/1 YEAR SERVICE KIT (INCLUDES DUST SEALS, FOAM RINGS, O-RING SEALS) - BLUTO RL/RCT3 (2017+) 
*

• FS 11.4018.052.000 FORK SERVICE KIT - FULL SERVICE SOLO AIR (INCLUDES AIR SEALS, DAMPER SEALS & HARDWARE) - BLUTO A1

• S 00.4315.032.490 AM FORK SERVICE KIT, BASIC (INCLUDES DUST SEALS, FOAM RINGS,O-RING SEALS) - BLUTO A1

• ns 00.4018.783.011 DAMPER UPGRADE KIT - CHARGER2 RLC REMOTE 120 MAX TRAVEL (INCLUDES COMPLETE RIGHT SIDE INTERNALS & ONELOC REMOTE) - SID 27"&29"(2012-2016)/REBA 27"&29"(2012-2017)/BLUTO

• ns 00.4018.783.003 DAMPER UPGRADE KIT - CHARGER2 RLC CROWN 120mm MAX TRAVEL (INCLUDES COMPLETE RIGHT SIDE INTERNALS) - SID 27"&29"(2012-2016)/REBA 27"&29"(2012-2017)/BLUTO


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## nstelemark (Sep 13, 2009)

Zacatac said:


> This damper upgrade totally transforms the bluto. It feels much closer to a pike. I think with this damper the only thing that could be complained about is its flex but me weighing in at 170 fully geared it is not an issue for me.


I realize this is a fairly old thread but ;-). I fully agree that the Charger in the Bluto transforms the fork. Between the damper and some bottomless tokens you can really improve the fork feel. Mind you I'm 165 lbs and I think this is a big part of why I find the Bluto pretty good. With the damper and the tokens the fork disappears, it tracks better, has better small bump performance and does not bottom out. Total bike weight is a real factor when you don't weigh much so the light weight is a real win.


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