# E-Bike for beginner significant other to widen capabilities?



## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Hi all. Thanks for entertaining these questions.

I'm a long-time rider (this is not to imply that I'm any good anymore, or hip to the fashions of today *read in wheezy septuagenarian voice*). I have no experience with e-bikes as of yet, also not saying that I'm in any hurry to get any. Not avoidant either, just not a personal priority.

My significant other has very little experience cycling, and is not in great shape. But during the course of the pandemic, I set her up with a decent hardtail and have been taking her on some beginner rides. She's unable to deal with rocky sections and switchbacks, despite significant efforts at the latter. My diagnosis for her overall issues are insufficient power output, and to-a-lesser-extent insufficient core strength. The combination makes technique hard to develop. I think the greater of the issues is the lack of power. She doesn't seem to have any torque reserve to power over anything, not to mention employment of momentum.

Is this sort of issue something an E-bike can Band-Aid?

Will the increased weight of an E-bike prove to be a challenge to other shortcomings (core strength), or is it mostly just a matter at 10/10ths, and heaving it on/off the roof rack?

Is looking at low-power E-bikes (eg. Levo SL) wrongheaded (i.e. her need for considerable assistance might require more watt-hours)?


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

DtEW said:


> My significant other has very little experience cycling, and is not in great shape. But during the course of the pandemic, I set her up with a decent hardtail and have been taking her on some beginner rides. She's unable to deal with rocky sections and switchbacks, despite significant efforts at the latter. My diagnosis for her overall issues are insufficient power output, and to-a-lesser-extent insufficient core strength. The combination makes technique hard to develop.


Beginner rides are great to build strength and learn technique. New riders should never ride over their heads because they can get slammed and ruin the motivation. I am sure you know this. Knowing my wife, the ideal bike would be an SL and I would never take her on "rocky sections and switchbacks" - it would be a beautiful gravel road in the mountains or a boardwalk along the ocean.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

The low powered ebikes out there would be a perfect bike for her to practice more and they are quite a bit more stable than traditional bikes. The added weight makes the ride when pointed down hill slightly more planted. If my significant other wanted to ride with me, the Levo SL is the bike I would pick.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

I would say yes, an ebike will help her with getting up steeper / rockier climbs. I wouldn't shy away from a full power ebike. You can always toggle it to Eco, but she will probably prefer trail/boost in my experience until she feels more comfortable. At least that's how it worked with my wife.

I wouldn't even hesitate, go for it!


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

It's a bit of a philosophical question, but what is the end goal? For her to come on more and more difficult rides with you or your normal trails?
I do wonder how many people go back to a bike after using an E-Bike. And hypothetically what happens when her skills and fitness improve and she starts leaving you behind?

Nonetheless, anything slow and technical will be difficult, and I don't have enough experience with E-Bikes to comment other than the extra weight could be factor vs the extra power to get through.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Mudguard said:


> It's a bit of a philosophical question, but what is the end goal? For her to come on more and more difficult rides with you or your normal trails? I do wonder how many people go back to a bike after using an E-Bike. And hypothetically what happens when her skills and fitness improve and she starts leaving you behind?


It seems like you're projecting your own particular philosophical ambivalence about E-bikes more than anything else.

I'm primarily interested in solving the immediate problem of keeping my significant other interested in mountain biking, as opposed to giving-up on it out of frustration, as she is facing now.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Thanks to everyone. I have scheduled for her to demo a Levo SL next weekend.


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## JillRide45 (Dec 11, 2015)

When she test rides the SL make sure to use mission control to alter the settings. On the Specialized bikes you can change what assistance as well as peak power for each setting. Also consider that the SL can take larger tires that may help her confidence. I run a mullet set up with 29 front 27.5 x3 rear. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

DtEW said:


> It seems like you're projecting your own particular philosophical ambivalence about E-bikes more than anything else.
> 
> I'm primarily interested in solving the immediate problem of keeping my significant other interested in mountain biking, as opposed to giving-up on it out of frustration, as she is facing now.


I could well be. My partner rides and is fitter than me, so there's no issue. I see it more as more of my regular group migrating to E-Bikes. Not one of them has ridden their normal bike since, which is ok.

If it gets your partner out riding and means you can ride the trails you want then I think that's a bonus.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

DtEW said:


> Thanks to everyone. I have scheduled for her to demo a Levo SL next weekend.


Late to the discussion, and I will admit a prejudice against motor assistance. However, my suggestion is an MTB tandem. She will get stronger and not rely on on external power to bail her out. A hardtail Fandango from mtb tandems dot com was my solution.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Surely a tandem brings a whole lot of its own problems? I wouldn't think you could slap it on the back of the car very easily, plus how would get around fore mentioned switch backs?


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Mudguard said:


> Surely a tandem brings a whole lot of its own problems? I wouldn't think you could slap it on the back of the car very easily, plus how would get around fore mentioned switch backs?


Wow. No kidding. A tandem? Seriously?

And here I thought the e-bike idea was niche.

I think I can safely say I have not once in 25+ years seen an mtb tandem on any trail. Countless unicycles, but not a single tandem. What kind of trails are we talking here? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> Wow. No kidding. A tandem? Seriously?
> 
> And here I thought the e-bike idea was niche.
> 
> I think I can safely say I have not once in 25+ years seen an mtb tandem on any trail. Countless unicycles, but not a single tandem. What kind of trails are we talking here? Sounds like a potential recipe for disaster.


Ah it wasn't me suggesting it!


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Mudguard said:


> Ah it wasn't me suggesting it!


No. I know. I was agreeing with you.

I should have started with a x2. Sorry about that.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

DeadGrandpa said:


> my suggestion is an MTB tandem.


For anybody else reading this thread: THIS IS A F****** HORRIBLE IDEA.

(A mountain tandem is a sketchy idea for even two expert riders.)



Mudguard said:


> Surely a tandem brings a whole lot of its own problems?





mtnbkrmike said:


> Wow. No kidding. A tandem? Seriously?


I'm sure he's just throwing it out there for the lulz.


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## fos'l (May 27, 2009)

IMO, great idea employing an eMTB to increase her interest and confidence. Going over nasty, rocky trails not so much. I'd get her used to the off road experience first, then increase complexity later. I did this with my wife on MTB, and she's pretty competent now, although she doesn't care for the "e" part and we ride unassisted three times a week. Need to get the motorized fix when I'm out by myself or with friends.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

DtEW said:


> For anybody else reading this thread: THIS IS A F****** HORRIBLE IDEA.
> 
> (A mountain tandem is a sketchy idea for even two expert riders.)
> 
> I'm sure he's just throwing it out there for the lulz.


Actually, I was being quite serious. While I personally favor forest service roads over singletrack, I have experienced a goodly portion of rutted, rocky, rooty and slick on the rides I've been on. For building fitness, skills and confidence in a person new to riding off pavement, fs roads can be plenty challenging. There must be some tandems out on trails, though, because I've seen full suspension tandems in a shop and in photos. They're not for everyone, but that's cool.


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## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

I would be interested in what she thinks she wants out of riding? Does she really want to ride more tech trails? If that is so, how much is she willing to do to get better? How often does she ride now ,how much time a week? E bikes can and do make up for limited fitness ,they don't make for limited skills. You might thing about finding a skills class/coach.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

DeadGrandpa said:


> There must be some tandems out on trails, though, because I've seen full suspension tandems in a shop and in photos. They're not for everyone, but that's cool.


I have encountered tandem mountain bikes on trails and forest service roads. For several years straight when I used to race 70 mile endurance MTB race outside of Laramie, Wyoming there were 2-6 teams in the tandem category each year. I got passed by a couple of them on single track a couple of times and they are fast. A talented tandem team is super impressive to witness.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Actually, I was being quite serious. While I personally favor forest service roads over singletrack, I have experienced a goodly portion of rutted, rocky, rooty and slick on the rides I've been on. For building fitness, skills and confidence in a person new to riding off pavement, fs roads can be plenty challenging. There must be some tandems out on trails, though, because I've seen full suspension tandems in a shop and in photos. They're not for everyone, but that's cool.





sgltrak said:


> I have encountered tandem mountain bikes on trails and forest service roads. For several years straight when I used to race 70 mile endurance MTB race outside of Laramie, Wyoming there were 2-6 teams in the tandem category each year. I got passed by a couple of them on single track a couple of times and they are fast. A talented tandem team is super impressive to witness.


Mountain tandems can be cruise missiles with the right team, but I'm pretty sure they're a poor choice for a variety of reasons when one rider is a MTB beginner. We are not considering one.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

Only thing I'd say is a big +1 for a bike that lets you customize the power delivery, so you can turn it way down. A new rider has enough things to figure out on their own, and adding in a power assist system that has a little bit of a lag that can sort of launch you forward if you aren't ready for it can catch even experienced riders off guard. Lightweight Levo SL with a custom power setup sounds perfect, if you can stomach the $$$


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## Old & Slow (May 3, 2020)

rangeriderdave said:


> E bikes can and do make up for limited fitness ,they don't make for limited skills.


Very true . . . I'm the perfect example.

Having no MTB experience and not ridden any bike in 20 years I decided to give it a go. Started on the cheap with a $900 Electric XP (fat tire folder), loved the experience but many crashes, all attributable to my inexperience riding off road. Went through two XP's, both returned, not suitable for steep off-road conditions.

Followed the XP with a used 26" FS Mtb which I added a Bafang mid-drive. To my surprise the skills learned on the fat tire did not translate to the skinny tire FS with a powerful motor. Several crashes later I've learned to walk past a difficult stretch. The pain of a crash is so much worse than the humiliation of walking.

I encourage the OP to make this fun for your new rider and go slow ramping the learning curve.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Rent an ebike, go for a ride, see what she thinks. I'd recommend starting out on very easy trails or scenic dirt roads.


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## SchralphMacchio (Aug 24, 2015)

If you want your wife to have more fun and develop skills, sign her up for a multi day women’s specific camp, if those are still a thing, or when those become a thing again. Trek Women’s Dirt Series is one of the best organized ones I’ve ever seen - two days at Whistler completely changed my wife’s relationship to mountain biking for the better.

If an ebike makes her have more fun, the it’s the fun that’s gonna get her more skills, not the bike. But a word of caution here ... getting barely enough skills and confidence to lull a new rider into being comfortable with higher trail speeds or harder trail conditions - without the foundational fitness and trail instincts needed to ride safely - is a recipe for a bad crash that can set her back physically for months or more, and emotionally for a year or forever. Especially if this happens 10 miles from the car versus 1. I’m suspecting that this trap is gonna be even easier to fall into with a motor than without...

I’ve personally seen this play out quite a bit, with at least 3 ladies I can think of. My friend’s wife lost her front wheel on very simple but somewhat dry and loose trail conditions, had a concussion that affected her work for weeks, and so she gave it up entirely after that. My wife also has a permanent dent in her knee bursa from a similar situation about 5 years ago, but thankfully she (a) got back on the horse again and (b) finally caved on my advice for simple knee pads (I’m still working on the shin pads though).

I think relying solely on a 45 lbs machine with a motor to help someone who is struggling to develop fitness and technique is a bad idea. I think doing this in conjunction with, or following, women’s specific skills clinics and a heavy dose of supervision and moderation of both terrain selection and trail speeds seems reasonable.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

SchralphMacchio said:


> If you want your wife to have more fun and develop skills, sign her up for a multi day women's specific camp, if those are still a thing, or when those become a thing again. Trek Women's Dirt Series is one of the best organized ones I've ever seen - two days at Whistler completely changed my wife's relationship to mountain biking for the better.
> 
> If an ebike makes her have more fun, the it's the fun that's gonna get her more skills, not the bike. But a word of caution here ... getting barely enough skills and confidence to lull a new rider into being comfortable with higher trail speeds or harder trail conditions - without the foundational fitness and trail instincts needed to ride safely - is a recipe for a bad crash that can set her back physically for months or more, and emotionally for a year or forever. Especially if this happens 10 miles from the car versus 1. I'm suspecting that this trap is gonna be even easier to fall into with a motor than without...
> 
> ...


I do not agree with this. Not a knock on your perspective, and I think clinics are a good idea down the road, but most prospective MTBers struggle with general fitness and muscle mass / required power as a limiting factor. In my experience of introducing new riders, both female or male, getting people hooked has significantly increased with the introduction of me having an extra e-bike for them to use.

As for this statement, "I think relying solely on a 45 lbs machine with a motor to help someone who is struggling to develop fitness and technique is a bad idea", the science completely contradicts this. E-bikes especially help newbies develop fitness and skill because it encourages them to ride more instead of giving up or "dreading" the ride because they are worried of not having the fitness to finish.


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## SchralphMacchio (Aug 24, 2015)

My key word above was “solely.”

I’m all for the ebike if it increases motivation to ride and fun factor. But if it quickly becomes clear that the eMTB ends up being mostly of a crutch to get from point A to point B, I don’t know if the OP has moved the needle at all.

But hey, you never know until you try! And, if your wife fits a medium frame, I’ll be in the market for a Pivot Shuttle next spring if it doesn’t work out for you guys 

Another caution for terrain selection - again, it’s a lot easier to carry a 30 lbs bike after a crash 1 mile from the TH than a 45 lbs bike 10 miles from the TH.


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## SchralphMacchio (Aug 24, 2015)

Also, the camaraderie and a safe space in women’s specific clinics is a real thing. It can help a lot with the right person. Not necessary for every female rider - I’m not trying to cast gross stereotypes - but I’ve done a lot of teaching people in high consequence outdoor activities and the gender dynamics can be real, and something important to be aware of.


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## Andrie (Jun 5, 2020)

I went through this and couldn’t convince my wife to ride with me on regular bike. It’s just too taxing for her, so we got eMTB. We started on paved flat trail, fire road, then we just starting on single tracks now. She has gone from barely able to do 5 miles on easy paved trail, to 40 miles on easy paved trail on 50 lbs eMTB with assist off. She can now climb steep fire road all in the span of 2 months with 2-3 times a week. She is now working on doing the climb with middle assist, not ever using turbo. When we are working on single tracks, we can do laps and she can do 3-4 laps in an hour time thus increasing her confidence. 

Remember, eMTB doesn’t mean you need to use the assist all the time. You have a choice on eco to turbo. It is the reason why it’s a great training tool. Start easy and work yourself to hard. For those that want to work hard, you can use it with assist off. It is even harder work than regular bike.


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## Gene Hamilton (Oct 8, 2013)

SchralphMacchio said:


> Also, the camaraderie and a safe space in women's specific clinics is a real thing. It can help a lot with the right person. Not necessary for every female rider - I'm not trying to cast gross stereotypes - but I've done a lot of teaching people in high consequence outdoor activities and the gender dynamics can be real, and something important to be aware of.


True, most of my camps are co-ed but I have been doing women's specific camps since 2000 also. What I have found is that my women's camps have about the same camaraderie as my co-ed camps as men who are willing to be coached usually don't have big egos and are very supportive of the female students. My women's camps are great for women who simply aren't comfortable learning with guys or who would just feel more comfortable with other women. The actual riding skills I teach are the exact same in both courses the only real difference is women seem to value the mental skills I teach more than men, especially mental skills that help with fear.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Andrie said:


> I went through this and couldn't convince my wife to ride with me on regular bike. It's just too taxing for her, so we got eMTB. We started on paved flat trail, fire road, then we just starting on single tracks now. She has gone from barely able to do 5 miles on easy paved trail, to 40 miles on easy paved trail on 50 lbs eMTB with assist off. She can now climb steep fire road all in the span of 2 months with 2-3 times a week. She is now working on doing the climb with middle assist, not ever using turbo. When we are working on single tracks, we can do laps and she can do 3-4 laps in an hour time thus increasing her confidence.
> 
> Remember, eMTB doesn't mean you need to use the assist all the time. You have a choice on eco to turbo. It is the reason why it's a great training tool. Start easy and work yourself to hard. For those that want to work hard, you can use it with assist off. It is even harder work than regular bike.


I agree with this based on my experience. My wife used to ride a little bit of MTB with me and then I made the big mistake of taking her to some trails that were just a little bit more aggressive. She crashed going up a short steep rise due to panic and not putting enough power down. She would only ride paved trails on her road bike or super flat MTB trails that she was familiar with after that. I bought her a Trek Powerfly FS (full power, short travel FS) a couple of months ago and now she'll ride with me a lot more now. The power makes it much easier for her to get up the trail and get up hills. She has much greater confidence now and actually enjoys it. I think a Levo Sl would be great, but the full power ones are fine too. My wife keeps it in Eco most of the time and sometimes up to Tour. If she really wants to kick my butt, she'll put it on Turbo on some flat or road sections and flies past me.


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## n8ofire (Jan 14, 2004)

Getting my daughter on my ebike has been a huge win. We are having a blast riding together. She drops me on the climbs and I catch her everywhere else. The motor makes her a hero on the tech climbs, and she then has confidence going down (she's smart enough to walk stuff she's not comfortable with, but it takes quite a bit.) This is all about having fun together, and that is on a new level with the ebike.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

This is exactly why I got my wife an eBike. She has no interest in going on anything remotely technical anymore, just bike paths, rail trails, and beach bluff trails but with the e-assist she can easily keep up with me and even leave me in the dust if she wants. I get a great work out and we get to ride together.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Not having enough ebike power is always a bummer. Always better to go with more power, just cant really do much with store bought ebikes. With a kit you can always change the power (Turn Count of motor) kv of the motor to suit your needs, you want more hill climbing grunt, very easy to change. You want more cruising speed, easy to change. Cant do that with a store bought ebike, your stuck with whatever the company deems everyone should have, one size of motor power and power curve fits all.


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