# New DIY studded tire thread ! Post your ideas and experiments :)



## David C (May 25, 2011)

Hi fellow winter warriors (and vets) !

First snow just hit us this week, but many of you have been going trough the whity mitty powder already for a while now.

Which makes it the perfect time to start discussing about our DIY studded tires for commute and snow blasting duties. No matter if you ride 24" or 700c, 5km or 30 miles, 1.5 or 2.4 wide, slick or knobbies, we want to hear your thoughts, experiments and experiences/inventions in turning tires into ice spikers and getting the grip back to you !

No need to buy expensive "winter" tires when an handful of screws and a cheap rubber is all you need to turn something hard into an hardcore riding experience :thumbsup:

So show me your techniques, setups and user-tinkering on how to make the best DIY studded rubber in town. What tire, which screws, what patterns, etc.

Me, I started making my owns last winter, as doing a short 5km round-trip commute to college and the occasional winter warrior ride out in the wild. I used a bunch of screws I had laying around to do my first tire, a generic 26x1.95 front tire. Since then I got some #6x3/8 zinc plated self drilling screws and made a rear tire, a 26x2.3 Duro Maveric Demolition and that I also ran in rear on my big MTB and loved the extra grip on hard pack snow.

Now I just put back on my front one on my commuter, and I plan to use the rear one on my big bike as a season setup, along with a new front one, a CST Caballero 2.4 I just bought (will have it for Christmas) and using new screws to complete the rear one and do the new front. Last year I used about 85 self-drilling screws in the rear. They were Richelieu self-drilling zinc plated with pan head, square bit, in #6 by 3/8". They wear out decently, though I may only had put about not more than 200km on them.

This year, I found some H. Paulin self-drilling framing screws, in #6x7/16", with black phosphate coating and pan head Phillips bit. $20 for 500, decent price. They look quite good, as the additional 1/16" length will be great to have almost 3/16" of the self-drilling tip sticking out instead of the shy 1/8" from the 3/8 screws. All depends on the thickness of your tire/knobs though. I hope the black phosphate coating will do a better job at prevention surface corrosion as the zinc plating did, although it's not much of an issue, more esthetic than anything else.

See them here :









The Richelieu zinc plated :









The two tires I did last winter :

















Now the few things I learned. First #6 screws are pretty much the best size. #8 are too big and would tend to split the rubber too badly. 3/8 to 1/2 is a good length range depending on your tire thickness. Drill pilot holes from the outside first and when choosing a tire, plan on which studding pattern you're gonna use. You can easily use 100 to 150 screws per tire, so a box of 100 might not be enough. Use a tire liner or some old big truck inner tube wide slice to protect your tube from the screw heads, very important because the screw heads will slowly work their way against your inner tube every time you ride and /brake. If you plan on running tubeless, a drop of silicone on the threads before putting in the screw might help sealing better and prevent the screw from backing in. The larger/flatter head the better, since it will give more support and less prone to tear up the rubber or get loose by wiggling around. Self-drilling tip are quite good, but I don't know if they are that much better than just a nice sharp framing screw tip to be worth the hassle finding them.

Also be careful not to wreck your nice wooden floor if you live in an apartment or have to carry your bike somewhere where it's not ceramic/concrete floor. Surface rust on the screws don't really matter since as soon as you're gonna ride again, it will get grind off right away. And I still wonder about an ideal tire pressure range for using DIY studded tires. Maybe something like 40psi for the usual 26x2" MTB tire ? You don't want to let the screws to be too loose when hitting the brakes.

So show us what you got !


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## Rabies010 (Jan 20, 2011)

You might want to check the fatbike forum as well, a lot of DIY studding is being done over there.
Also you might want to take a look at these: Grip Studs™ Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | Bicycle Tire Studs
i have used Schwalbe Ice Spiker's on my 26er, and om going to get a set for my 29er as well.
But i really wish i had the dough for a set of 45Nrth's Dillinger's....


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## riderb (Jun 1, 2009)

"a handful of screws and a cheap rubber is all you need"

Sounds risky to me! But ya I did this last winter with one tire for the front and will be doing the other to make a full set this winter. Just waiting around for more snow. There is a sticky on another forum with some good info on this subject here:

Making Your Own Studded Tyres

My concern is flatting from the screw heads. I used duct tape to line the one I used on the front and I'm considering using a thin foam pipe insulation around the tube for the rear or both...


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Rabies010 said:


> You might want to check the fatbike forum as well, a lot of DIY studding is being done over there.
> Also you might want to take a look at these: Grip Studs™ Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt | Bicycle Tire Studs
> i have used Schwalbe Ice Spiker's on my 26er, and om going to get a set for my 29er as well.
> But i really wish i had the dough for a set of 45Nrth's Dillinger's....


Flippin hell...for the price of those studs, you might as well buy a pair of Nokians and their stud replacing tool. And you'll still come out under half of what it would take to do two tires.


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## drewvir (Aug 17, 2012)

as for the tube to screw head interface,you might want to try these. their wider and flatter than panheads.

and cheaper:thumbsup:

Metra PWHT812 8 X .5 Phillips Wafer Head Tek Screws


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

riderb said:


> "a handful of screws and a cheap rubber is all you need"
> 
> Sounds risky to me! But ya I did this last winter with one tire for the front and will be doing the other to make a full set this winter. Just waiting around for more snow. There is a sticky on another forum with some good info on this subject here:
> 
> ...


Well again your mileage may vary 

Like I said I'm doing a short 5km round trip commute and the occasional weekend warrior snow blast maybe once or twice a week when time and weather allows it. I like to run tires at least 2" wide and MTB style.

Idea of this thread is to post up new ideas and discuss about commuter and MTB dual setup for winter studs as many commuters here also like to MTB in the snow. And many lives in a urban area.

Regarding your tire liners, I tried duck tape at first, and put down 2 layers, thinking like you it would be enough to prevent the heads from puncturing your tube. Well on the front tire it took about 10-20 commutes max before one evening I was heading home, jump on my bike and it felt very soft in the front. Turns out I had finally punctured the tube on my ride in the morning and now I had to ride home on a flat. Lucky I had a wide rim and good tire casing which allowed me to just ride it home anyways instead of walking the 2.5km. When I took out the tube, I had about 30 or so holes to patch up to prevent possible future leaks and then about 2-3 real punctures. Then I had a big thick truck inner tube laying around, so I cut a wide 2" strip and used it to line the tire. Then it worked out good. I'm still running that tube in the same wheel and riding the bike everyday. And I also did the same thick rubber lining for my rear tire. I think it's mostly the fact that front tire studs have way more wiggling from braking, turning and hits than the rear tire that made the heads work their way trough the tape a lot faster. Ideal would be to simply use a regular tire liner already, but I didn't had any so I went the fastest way around. But otherwise the idea of using an inexpensive tire (in the way that you don't need to bust your $60 Ignitor for this purpose, just buy nice knobbies on sale) and screws with a tire liner is way more cost effective than buying dedicated studded tires already. I don't have the luxury to spend $150 on a set of studded tires just for winter duty and even if I did, I'd probably still find the DIY way more fun to do 

And those Grip Studs are nice, but $100 for 100 studs isn't in my budget at all, considering I'd use a minimum of 150 studs for a set of tires. I think I'll stick to my 100 screws for $6. Thanks for the link though


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

drewvir said:


> as for the tube to screw head interface,you might want to try these. their wider and flatter than panheads.
> 
> and cheaper:thumbsup:
> 
> Metra PWHT812 8 X .5 Phillips Wafer Head Tek Screws


You are right, Wafer heads are way better than Pan heads for this purpose. My only issue so far was not being able to find them in #6x3/8 with a nice tip or decent price yet locally. I saw some Richelieu #8x3/8 self-drilling with Wafer head, in $5 for 100 pack, but #8 is just too big not to shear the rubber unfortunately 

If someone can get Wafer heads instead, that'd be even better. But I'd still use a good tire liner anyway.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

David, you saw my thread on this last year, but I'll post it here for reference:

https://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/diy-studs-tubeless-747736.html

My experience - stud the outermost knobs, and tubeless worked great.

But I gave up on mine by Christmas because the screws were too worn down.









A new #6 3/8" screw on the left
A typical screw from the front tire in the middle
A typical screw from the rear tire on the right

Last year was also a freak year though, and I spent two months running those tires on basically bare pavement. If I'd tried it this year instead I think they would have held up a lot better, because the roads have been under snow&ice for a few weeks now.


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

I buy nokian tires with tungsten carbide tips. $ 45.00 per for my commuter ride and will last at least 5 or 6 years. YRMV, works for me. You do the math.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I sure know about your thread 

You get a lot more mileage than I do. So far my front tire hasn't been wearing down much at all. Rear one about 25% down the tip, using the same screws as you did, so maybe half the wear your front tire screw is showing on the picture. I'll be working on my rear one in the next days hopefully, and I'll take out a few screws and replace them with the longer black 7/16" ones and see how good they wear. I'll also track the mileage as it will be on my MTB and not my commuter, and will have about a 50-50 of urban and trails.

Do you plan on going DIY again this winter ?


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

$45 per tire?!?! Where are you shopping?! 

I just got Nokians (finally) this year also, but I'm all about DIY options... from what I've seen though, the labor involved, maintenance, and longevity of DIY studs tipped me towards buying the real deal. $150 for the pair (29er) on a crazy ebay deal, and I'm hopefully set for several winters. 

Curious to see what everyone is coming up with though...I'll go DIY when the technology meets my strict demands :lol: like I did with tubeless.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

All Items - Bruno Wessel - Tire Studs, Studding Equipment

Some interesting possiblities here.

My stud milage is so high that there is just no point in DIY studs.

Carbide is the way to go, and aluminium/carbide is even better.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

David C said:


> Do you plan on going DIY again this winter ?


Last winter I found a good deal on the 29er ice spiker pros, so I'll be using them for hopfully the next bunch of winters.

Where'd you find the black screws?

I'm grabbing this from my old thread, since it's useful info:

Bolt Depot - Selecting Fastener Materials - Steel Grades, Brass, Bronze, Stainless Steel


> Stainless Steel:
> 
> It is a common misconception that stainless steel is stronger than regular steel. In fact, due to the low carbon content, stainless steel cannot be hardened. Therefore when compared with regular steel it is slightly stronger than an un-hardened (grade 2) steel fastener but significantly weaker than hardened steel fasteners.
> 
> ...


If I ever do DIY again I'll have to hit up one of the speciality fastener places to try to find hardened screws.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

newfangled said:


> Last winter I found a good deal on the 29er ice spiker pros, so I'll be using them for hopfully the next bunch of winters.
> 
> Where'd you find the black screws?
> 
> ...


Check out my link.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I don't buy any bolts/hardware for my Jeep that isn't Grade 8, but I don't know if there is such a thing as grade 8 teeny tiny screws...


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ yeah, ideally there'd be a middleground between the spendy screw-in studs, and the fast-wearing hardware grade screws. When I looked last year the local hardware stores weren't any help, and I didn't check the speciality fastener shops because none of them are open past 5.

But I know a bunch of people who swear by the standard ones and ride in conditions where I'm white-knuckling with my schwalbes or nokians.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I got the black screws at Home Depot. They are simply black phosphate coating and maybe not harder steel grade then the zinc plated ones. Although while checking out the manufacturer's products specs (they are made by H. Paulin), they said they were using harder and better steel for all of their self-drilling and self-taping screws, but however those exact self-drilling ones I got are not under the same category as all of their self-drill/taping screws, they are under the framing section, which doesn't state any info on the steel used. So they might or might not be of harder steel.

At least the black coating should help regarding corrosion and esthetic. And the extra 1/16" may make the difference between an early end of season tire life and riding till spring.

I know about the steel grades, and I browsed that Bolt Depot website quite often. They have very nice information and good selection. Also when I did DIY pin my flat pedals, I made sure to get the highest M4 bolt grade I could find locally, I think I got class 10.9 (could be grade 8 in imperial). Wish I could find some alloy steel hardened whatever self-drilling screws. I might have another big specialized hardware store to go look at next time I'm in that part of town.

And like another poster said, as long as it meets our requirement and is cost-effective, DIY all the way


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

That $ 45 was for 26" x1.95 nokian mount and ground about 3 years ago. A company called Grip Studs makes studs that you just screw into the tire from the outside.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

leeboh said:


> A company called Grip Studs makes studs that you just screw into the tire from the outside.


Yup, link was already posted in the beginning and consensus they are just too damn expensive for the usual rider and even compared to studded tires. Though it's nice to have them around if someone ever wants to tinker much, well at least there is many options out there for all kind of budget


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

the Grip Studs are so expensive that you could've bought commercial studded tires (about $1/stud). i could see them being useful if you wanted to stud a special tire (like a 2.5 DH rubber or something)

i'm done with DIY studs, they worked great when i simply couldn't afford commercial tires, but they never, ever lasted very long (although you can just put new screws in the tire which is cheap enough) and they aren't very comfortable to ride unless they aren't sticking out very much (i've used a bolt cutter with good success) but then the mileage goes down again

my hakkas have probably 2500 miles on them over years and years, and the studs are still in good shape. considering the "smiles per miles" quotient they were actually waaaaaaay cheaper than my DIY studs, faster and more comfortable to ride

that said...i had best luck with the wafer head black screws with the sharp tip, they are dirt cheap. i also learned quickly to cut the heads down to have as little sticking out of the rubber as possible, otherwise dry pavement sucks bad. if i was using the tire offroad i'd probably leave the studs long...


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ I'd pretty much agree with that, since for typical riding you should be able to get a set of the basic nokians or schwalbes for under $150, easy. That's the cost of two months' transit, but could get you through 5+ years of winters.

The only reason I went DIY last year was because of the limited 29er options (ie. 1). But by christmas the new schwable 29er tire was available so I switched over. If I had a fatbike or a krampus I'd probably still be looking DIY though, since there's not much commercially available or it's $400+ for a set.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

ferday said:


> the Grip Studs are so expensive that you could've bought commercial studded tires (about $1/stud). i could see them being useful if you wanted to stud a special tire (like a 2.5 DH rubber or something)
> 
> i'm done with DIY studs, they worked great when i simply couldn't afford commercial tires, but they never, ever lasted very long (although you can just put new screws in the tire which is cheap enough) and they aren't very comfortable to ride unless they aren't sticking out very much (i've used a bolt cutter with good success) but then the mileage goes down again
> 
> ...


Few questions.

Where did you find the wafer head black screws and any link for them ?

Why didn't you simply used shorter screws instead of cutting them ?

Did you ride on more skinny tires ? I'm always on 1.95 or bigger, so although I can feel and hear them on pavement, I don't get any comfort issue regarding ride quality.

Why not simply let them wear as the rubber wear down ?

And again, you seem to put a lot of mileage during winter, while some others don't get much more than 800 km.

And isn't winter riding almost off-road conditions 90% of the time ?


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

i got mine at home depot, they look like this







i think they are called drywall screws or something.

screws only come in so many lengths...so pretty hard to find the exact length needed, so i went longer....after a few rides of bumping around (especially on the dry parts) i cut them. my first DIY set were on 2.3 worn out old nevegals. i also made the rookie mistake of putting way too many studs in...especially on the centre row where they aren't needed as much and really destroy the ride quality

i commuted for years, i don't any more as i work out of town now, i still use my hakkas on the fixed gear for bombing around and going to the store, etc and that mileage has been over many years. honestly i prefer the narrower tires with the studs, they grip fine and are way easier to pedal around than the big 2.3's, also they cut through the road slush rather than skidding on top.

i've spent a lot of time in montreal (i'll be there in a few weeks for christmas) and i know your winters (ice storms LOL). DIY studs work fine, but after i finally sucked up the $150 for proper studded tires i'll never go back, unless i feel like trying DH with studs or something (since i got my fatbike i have no interest in studs offroad anyways)

to make a long story short...DIY studs can be made to work great, but it takes time and effort...and after years and thousands of km's my nokians are still going strong...I'm a DIY fan but not for studs anymore


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## Rabies010 (Jan 20, 2011)

I remember that in another thread someone used grubscrews to stud a tire.
He drilled a hole from the inside out screwed in the grubscrews until it completely disappeares in the rubber and i also think he glued in a really thin innertube as a tire liner.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I saw those screws too. I don't know if they are much difference in performance between those pointy tips or self-drill ones. Funny tho for Christmas I won't be there, but at the beach for 2 weeks :lol:

Currently it's raining outside, about 5°. But the next days will be under freezing point, so some black ice is to be expected hehe 

I also only have 2.5km each way to go on a fairly busy street, which means warmer pavement and less ice, but more slush. But I also enjoy going wild during winter and I want whatever bike I'm riding to be able to handle my randomness and lack of total judgment like a kid trying to run on a ice ring. I'm crazy like that haha

I think my current riding style would have to change greatly if I was to do a 10-15 km commute everyday instead. But I'm riding for fun and nothing else. So screw whatever will be better but less fun ! Just kidding, not that badly. I like to do stuff my way, that's all 

And I still welcome opinions and suggestions on everything and see what makes my day :thumbsup:


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Rabies010 said:


> I remember that in another thread someone used grubscrews to stud a tire.
> He drilled a hole from the inside out screwed in the grubscrews until it completely disappeares in the rubber and i also think he glued in a really thin innertube as a tire liner.


Interesting ! May be a very nice way to go if it's holding good in place. To eliminate those screw heads would be a big plus.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ I looked at setscrews last year, but as a canuck they're tough to get. In the states you can order in bulk from mcmaster carr, but in Canada you have to go in to a Fastenal or Acklands Grainger store. Homedepots just carry packs of 10. Which isn't to say that it's impossible...just that you can't do it online and I am lazy.

I never found a followup on how well the setscrews actually worked, but they should wear at the same rate as the selftapping screws. I think they'd end up being a bit more expensive, but would be lighter with less risk to the tube.


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## ferday (Jan 15, 2004)

newfangled said:


> ^ I looked at setscrews last year, but as a canuck they're tough to get. In the states you can order in bulk from mcmaster carr, but in Canada you have to go in to a Fastenal or Acklands Grainger store. Homedepots just carry packs of 10. Which isn't to say that it's impossible...just that you can't do it online and I am lazy.
> 
> I never found a followup on how well the setscrews actually worked, but they should wear at the same rate as the selftapping screws. I think they'd end up being a bit more expensive, but would be lighter with less risk to the tube.


i've thought about set screws but the threads are so thin/small i always worried they'd just worm their way back into (or out of) the tire. at least the metal screws have coarse large threads

i'd love to hear from someone who had good success with the set screws...


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

ferday said:


> i've thought about set screws but the threads are so thin/small i always worried they'd just worm their way back into (or out of) the tire. at least the metal screws have coarse large threads
> 
> i'd love to hear from someone who had good success with the set screws...


Heck, like I said I'm going south in only 3 weeks, so I'll take a look at those setscrews. And maybe try a few of them in the mix and see how it goes. I'll definitively have to glue them in though.

Actually, my rona might have some metric ones, which are often alloy steel... Depending on the price (if they have some), I'd experiment around.


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## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

I’ve gone to the dark side (commercial studded tires), but made a few sets with the smallest size car tire studs available. When I first made a pair there was no internet and I had to walk 5 miles in the snow both ways to buy them from a tire store. 

Pros of my DIY’s: Unsurpassed grip
Wear like iron 

Cons of my DIY’s: Rolling resistance/buzz on paved sections (they stick out more than bike tire studs)
Heavy
More prone to flats. This was the biggest downside. Eventually the flange of the stud (you drill tire & mount from inside) would wear through or shift whatever liners I used (Mr Tuffy, old tube, snakeskin-like liners, glue, etc.).


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

I've got a 2/3's done pair of Bonty Connections with carbide panhead screws. Pics forthcoming tomorrow when I finish them.

If you can find an old pair of those tires, btw, I really like them for this purpose. They have nice, big knobs on the outsides of the center tread.


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

Talking about DIY studding made me realize that there's still a hole in the commercial market - no one makes a chunky knobby that is only moderately studded.

I've got Mount&Grounds which have 160 studs per tire, and are great on ice and in most winter conditions. In fresh snow though, they're twitchy and frustrating and pretty much suck. The number of studs is never the issue - it's the width (which is both too narrow and too wide) and the tread that are the problem.

I've also got Ice Spiker Pros which are fantastic, and solid, and predictable, and I don't have to worry until the snow is as deep as my bottom bracket. But they've got 402 studs per 29er tire and have a msrp of $160 (although thankfully you can find them much cheaper). I don't need 402 studs - it's the width and the tread that makes them so dependable. Even on snowy singletrack the extra studs aren't doing much, and I'm not racing around on skating rinks. I'd love to have the option of an Ice Spiker-Lite or a Nokian less-Extreme with the same aggressive casing but half the studs.

When people make a DIY tire they often go with a big knobby and two rows of studs. It's what I did, and it makes sense, but for some reason Schwalbe and Nokian don't offer that.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

True. Pretty much one of the reason I'm going DIY. I don't see anything in the market as of now that fit my likings (coz it's more of a want than a need), and if it does, it's little to no chance to be in my price range to be cost-competitive with my DIY stuff. Maybe a nice knobby in 2.4 with two rows of studs and around 100-150 studs only, with good hard snow/ice rubber compound for under $45, maybe $30 on sale would be ideal for my mtb. Since it's not gonna see a lot of pavement miles anyway, I wouldn't need super hard expensive studs, but just some value-oriented quality. If it can be better than the $17 CST Caballero 2.4 tire and about $5 worth of screws and 1 hour of DIYing, for under $45, well yes it fit my price-range. I simply like to do stuff my way.

Even if my way is often way out of everyone else's


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## jacksonoreillyjunior (Jul 10, 2010)

*nokian stud tool and replacement studs*

Lots of granite rocks here in SW NH which is not good for studs put in from outside- everytime I lose a stud from my Nokians, which is usually off one of the edge knobs, the hole either rips into the knob or enlarges and the replacement studs won't stay in. I'm studding up a pair of Nevegals using stainless steel cone point socket screws which go all the way in from the inside and leave no trace... & I can use Stan's solution so no tubes.



wschruba said:


> Flippin hell...for the price of those studs, you might as well buy a pair of Nokians and their stud replacing tool. And you'll still come out under half of what it would take to do two tires.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Interesting. Let us know how it goes


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

i know this is old, but i'd really like to know how set screws work? by the looks of it jackson jr won't be responding as his last log on was a day after this post.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well I have experimented since then and using class 12.9 steel alloy button head M3 or M4 screws with 2-3mm of exposed thread is the way to go. You can get 100 of them for $6 and they last quite a while, pretty much forever if you never hit pavement. Not too heavy either and rust only gets on the surface and get brushed off right away when you ride again. No need to get them zinc plated, black oil finish (aka plain) will be enough and the zinc plating will flake off anyway. Run the tires tubeless too, despite the fine 0.5mm pitch thread, the screws won't loosen up nor leak under flex. You can order from Boltdepot.com for a great price and selection, plus pick up stainless hardware while you're at it for your bike.


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## snailspace (Jan 12, 2014)

My local bike shop sells their own DIY studded tires but just do them on the edges. The use a small hex headed screw but have the screw head as the stud, so pointy bit on inside of tire. But for me to do 700+ studds btw 2 tires seems like a lot of work when I can have a proven product for $120 CDN a tire.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

thanks david, i did find the screw you were talking about in ss for $.06 each. man idk if i really want to do tubeless though, never have, seems like a PITA. plus my rims aren't meant to be run tubeless, i know guys run em but just doesn't seem right. i have the dually's. so you're saying that m3 or m4 is better than an m6? i was looking at these last night M6 x 8mm Cone Point Set / Grub Screws (DIN 914) - A4 Stainless Steel and they have a 1mm pitch instead of .5 which i thought would hold better, no? just tossing out ideas, but i will go your route if you think it's the better of the 2


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Beware of the metal alloy you're choosing ! The reason why studded tires cost so much is due to a very hard but expensive carbide tungsten steel core with aluminum outer shell stud that last many seasons even on pavement. Our goal here is to be able to stud our own tires in the most durable way without spending a fortune. Stainless steel, while it has excellent rust-proof properties, remains a very soft steel alloy compared to carbide and will wear off in no time. It is also more expensive. Not a good candidate. The self-drilling sheet metal screws use a hardened tip, but still quite softer than carbide, although harder than SS. The metric steel alloy bolts are manufactured in 4 grades, known as "class" and range from soft to very hard; 8.8 - 10.9 - 12.9 - 14.9. It is similar to the imperial grades of 3 - 5 - 8, but offers a even stronger steel alloy in small sizes. The hardest steel alloy we can have in a small size (~3mm-4mm ø) is class 12.9 for screws and class 14.9 for set screws. Given that set screws need a lot more rubber to hold them tight and not every tire has enough material, the metric socket button head class 12.9 screws are a great fit for studded tires. A M3 screws (ø3mm) is more than enough and will offer enough bite while keeping minimal rolling resistance and will allow for smaller knobs to be studded and keeping a low weight. The button head will offer good support and very low profile, easy for a layer of tire sealing to build up and seal over the head and not in the way if you need to run a tube with a tire liner. The socket heap works great for torquing them just right without slippage. They are inexpensive and lightweight but durable. I've done 3 tires with them last winter and they are almost good as new after a full season. Works a lot better than sheet metal screws or anything else I've tried in the last 3 years. 2-3mm is the ideal stud length, so check the length you need depending on the tire you'll be using.

https://www.boltdepot.com/Metric_so..._12.9_steel_black_oil_finish_3mm_x_0.5mm.aspx


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ thanks David, that's good info. My experience with the self-drilling ones was that they wore too fast, but if I do it again I'll have to try those bolts.


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## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

thx


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

I got my marathon winters, 26x2" for $50 a piece from crc 


#canadastrong


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Marathon Winter are great for commuting, but for offside they are a real boat anchor at over 1kg per tire. The Ice Spiker Pro are lighter at less than 700g, but pretty darn expensive at $100 each. My tires for my XC bike that I studded last winter are CST Critters, 26x2.1 folding at 600g each. With about 100 studs each, they are 650g per tire and grand total was $45 for both tires and screws (M3 screws). They are great for offroad and I run them tubeless with homebrew sealant. Cheap, durable and performant.

I have a Marathon Winter 26x1.75 in front of my commuter and it's great for the roads, but not enough thread depth for offroad if you hit soft or deep snow.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Think one DIY solution has been completly overlooked...

It should be possible to coat a tire with a liquid plastic filled with sand particles....

Only a thin layer would be required, as the liquid vinyl wears off more sand particles would be exposed to replace those that fall off...

Should work well for ice...

I would hand sipp the tire first to ensure good bonding sites...

And no I will not be trying this, I have three sets of Nokian studded tires...


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## newfangled (Sep 13, 2010)

^ some automotive winter tires have walnut shells embedded in the rubber:

Winter Tire Technology | Blog | Toyo Tires Canada

For bikes I assume that the discreet knobs and discreet studs are a better approach, but I've always thought a "scratchy" tire would be cool.


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Hey, if anyone is looking for the GRIPSTUDS product in Canada, my company is a dealer for them...and I'm a fatbiker too! I have Husker-Du's with 75 studs per tire, and also Fatback Sterlings with 90 per tire. Works grreat, and I have 3 winters on the Huskers, with zero lost studs.

www.bracebridgemachine.com

Go to the contacts page and send me an email, or give me a call.

100 pack is $104.95
150 pack is $156.95
1000 pack is $996.00
Install tool is $9.95

All Canadian Funds, all in stock in Ontario. No Duty, brokerage, or exchange to pay.

Cheers, Roy.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Hi Roy, I understand you're also a winter rider just like us and you happen to work in a store that sell winter biking related goods, thanks for letting us know about the Canadian availability of these studs.

However, as a friendly advice, I would suggest you rephrase your post not to disclose any specific pricing (simply say around $1/stud, cheaper by quantity, please PM me for more details) and not show yourself as a middleman or seller for your shop on the forums, as it goes against MTBR policy to allow free advertising of commercial interest. However if your shop is interested into PR, they can sponsor a forum or simply pay for an ad and help keeping MTBR rolling strong. Several members can be offended by seeing these type of "free" advertising, even more those who already pay to advertise their local business or services/products on the forums. In last, I'd strongly suggest you contact one of the administrator of MTBR (Gregg or Francois), or perhaps one of the SuperModerator, to seek advices and guidelines on how to post about products of interests the company you happen to work for is selling.

And I have to say, you should try the graded 12.9 steel alloy metric machine screws this season, and see how they compare to the GripStuds in term of weight, durability, grip, rolling resistance and handling, ease of installation and cost. You could be surprised !


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## ale50ale (Apr 4, 2011)

Thanks for the tips.

I will look into a paid ad on MTBR.


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## marine.veteran.0311 (7 mo ago)

All you need to do is get you a big box of Phillips head flat screws self tapping or not doesn't matter. The ones that have a head on them about the size of a dime work good. Take you to inner tubes Tire slice them down the middle and merely stick your inner tube inside the split open old inner tubes and use them for a liner if you're worried about them moving around use some rubber cement or contact cement or I just take black tape and wrap it around the old tubes in the new tube go from the inside out and go shredding


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