# Favorite old school tires



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.

The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...

If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Not quite what you are looking for, but I bought an old Jamis cruiser (86-87 model) and it had these super cheesy seashell tread tires that I would have loved to keep had they not been dry rotted to hell. I think they were called "Sand Jam"


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## A:42 (Jan 6, 2004)

*Dont Bust on Sand Jams*

I used to love pointing out the cool shell tread to potential Jamis cruiser customers, along with other Chi Chi features like Alloy Rims, Stainless Steel spokes, Plush padded pedals to caress and soothe their tired sand scorched feet, and check out this super comfy "Cheeks" saddle, guaranteed not to turn your Bikini into an impromptu thong during your ride. (this was 91 and thongs were not as "main stream" as they are today).
I had a great time selling Jamis Crusiers, and most people dug the campy sales pitch, and appreciated the extra features enough to pony up the additional $$ over a plain jane Hampton Cruiser.
By the way the Sand Jam shell tread tires usually were the coupe de grace, kept back till the end to close the deal.

If you want some jamis tires in good shape, try giving www.freewheelinbikes.com a call, I bet they still some in stock.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.
> 
> The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...
> 
> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


Wll, I pretty much missed the 80s as far as MTB riding but I really love the second generation of the Ground Control from the early 90s. I think they're called Ground Control/Master 2, I bought a bunch of them from Nashbar when they were closing them out. Great light all around tire, for Michigan anyway. I like the traction of the Specialized Umma Gummas, esp. the Cannibal, but they didn't last long before they wore out.


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## Diesel (Dec 23, 2003)

*From my days in Kentucky...*

I loved the Klein DeathGrip 2.35 for the summer and Continental's 1.5 Cross Country for the winter. Not to mention the Dart/ Smoke combo for all round use.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

*Dart and Smoke*



Diesel said:


> I loved the Klein DeathGrip 2.35 for the summer and Continental's 1.5 Cross Country for the winter. Not to mention the Dart/ Smoke combo for all round use.


I recently put a set of Dart/Smoke tires on a bike and rode them for the first time since the mid-90s. I liked them back then, and after one ride, I liked them again. I was surprised that they worked as well (or better in some cases) as the combos that I use today.


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## nwmtb (Jan 3, 2004)

*great conversation*



Fillet-brazed said:


> For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.
> 
> The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...
> 
> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


 ahhhhh just the mention of the Porc's brings a smile to my face....in the midwest, we would throw them on at first snowfall...the white ones of course !! Late 80's mountain biking was so new to me that i can't remember, or is it that i just didn't care at that point. I do remember that the tread had a V shape to it.

What were some of your first bikes ??...mine was a 10 spd Kuwahara, replaced with a 10 spd Univega Rover 10 a couple of years later.

later
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[email protected]


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## donk (Jan 28, 2004)

I liked the Porcupines I had in 1989, too bad my misadjusted chainstay mounted Ubrake sliced one open.

Favourite tire of all time

1.9 panaracer smoke lite comp - would spin out but you always knew it would grab again as long as you kept pedalling.

Other tires I've liked

Ritchey Force Comps 
Ritchey Mega Bites - rear only, way too round of profile for my liking as a front tire
Kona Maximum - front tire only
Ritchey Zmax 2.1 - front tire

Currently using michelins, wear a bit quick, but a good tire.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I recently put a set of Dart/Smoke tires on a bike and rode them for the first time since the mid-90s. I liked them back then, and after one ride, I liked them again. I was surprised that they worked as well (or better in some cases) as the combos that I use today.


Never a huge fan of Darts and Smokes too much, but yes, tires often change only for the sake of sales and marketing. An old tire is hard to hype up even though its proven and works great. Its all about sales. Out comes the new mold and the new hype!!!!!!

I was stuck on the Ground Control S as a front for so long that I knew it so well.... I never wanted to change. For some reason now I like a little more rounded profile. But it cornered like no other. Now it almost feels like it grips too well. I almost welcome a little "predictable push" now. It seems as though the tires that really bite when cornering seem to REALLY push unpredictably when they do let loose...... The more rounded tires are atleast more predictable.

The Smoke for me, when it first came out I thought maybe it could take over as my new front tire. I remember I raced DH wiht it at Mammoth one year without ever trying it beforehand. Dumb, but it actually worked well there with all the pumice. But beyond that it had an eery feel while cornering on that sharp edge. then a year later, I think they came out with the dart. I didnt like that first Dart (is that what it was called?) but the second generation iwth the smaller knobs did a pretty good job up front....

The porcupine had a great cushy feel to it. Did anybody else notice that. Beyond tire pressure. The casing or something was gushyish. It grips so well front or back.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

*Ground Control*

When the Ground Control tires came out, they were awesome. Once the Pro Control came out, I liked the Pro Control in the front and the Ground Control in the rear.

I also really liked the 2.5 Pro Control when it came out. The other tire that really worked well for So Cal was the Ritchey Z-Max - especially in the 2.35 size with the red tread.


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

Specialized Ground Control
Ritchey Z-Max WCS 2.35
Panaracer Smoke
Panaracer Spike (mud)
IRC Yeti/FRO


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

I still have a set of fair condition 1.9 Smoke Lite Comps folded up on my tire shelf. Also there's a set of VG condition Ritchey Megabite Kevlar 2.1s, a single Megabite Z-Max WCS red compouned 2.1 in good condition, a 2.35 Megabite Z-Max WCS red compound in good condition (and another in fair to poor condition), three NOS condition Tioga Psycho-KR 1.95s in the sticky amber tread, a good condition Specialized Ground Control/S 1.95 kevlar, and a LOT of NOS JoeMurray tires including kevlar foldable Maximum 2.2s. Sold the pictured NOS Specialized More Extreme UmmaGumma 1.95 last year. Oh and I also have a matched set of 2.1 Smoke/Dart on my restored 1991 Rocky Mountain Hammer (which is for sale in the classifieds).


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## slowride (Jan 13, 2004)

My favorite tire has to be the Panaracer Dart 2, the one with the smaller tread blocks. The last time I saw someone else who had one, he mentioned how much he liked it as well (Nonny, for those in the midwest). If I could find them now I'd still be running one...


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## cbchess (Dec 20, 2003)

*thanks for the memories!*



Fillet-brazed said:


> For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.
> 
> The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...
> 
> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


My first upgrade in my life was when I switched out my crappy OEM tires to a Dart in the front and a Ground Controll Extreme in the back. It was in 1990 in Santa Cruz, Ca. I took my bike - and old Panasonic fully rigid steel beastly heavy bike up to Wilder Ranch. It was pure heaven . I felt like I had a brand new bike. We used to ride ALL day back then with one bottle of water and one bottle of juice stashed for "lunch" . I used to peel the stickers off the juice and stick them on my bike. I think it was odwalla or something. after a while you could hardly tell what color my bike was.
What a great time - those were some of the greatest rides ever. I'd love to go back to santa cruz and ride Wilder again.
Chris


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## xrmattaz (Jan 12, 2004)

Gawd, I'm feeling old. 

My most favorite tire...EVER...was the old Fisher Fat Trax. 

Square knobs, nice beefy carcass. I wish I still had some. 

Anyone remember those??


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

In southern California it was cool (for a while) to run a separate set of wheels with full slicks for "city riding." On my garishly-painted Klein I ran Specialized Fat Boys front and rear. Front was skinny, like 1.5 or something, while the back was this huuuuge slick tire like a 1.95 or maybe even a 2.0. It sure looked cool at the time.

The Fisher Fattrax was the first BIG tire I remember using. That was one big carcass. Farmer Johns were popular. Smoke/Dart took over in the early 90s. I liked riding with a 2.1 on the front because I was too cheap to upgrade to a suspension fork.

I think the turning point aesthetically was when tires went to all black instead of black tread with (natural) rubber sidewalls.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

aosty said:


> IRC Yeti/FRO


YES! I LOVED this tire too. I ws in Colorado when I had it. They were perfect for those conditions. They were also my introduction to 'fat' tires. Everything I ran before that was on the skinnier side. I wish I could find another set of them.... 

Also:
Ritchy Z-max fr and rr
Dart 2.2
Conti Competition 1 & 2 
Conti Baja~ Loved this as an all around to
Ritchey Mondo Alfa bite 2.35~still have it


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## SlowSSer (Dec 19, 2003)

panaracer smoke/dart combo was cool. not to mention the farmer john and the farmer john cousin. so much fun- the origional tractor tread design!


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

For me, my favorite all time pair of tires is the *OnZa Aggro/Honch *combination. I still run an Aggro out back but now a new favorite, the Mutano 2.4k, up front. They climb, handle and brake great, and if you get the ones that don't shed lugs like a snake in heat, they hold up well, too.

I hated Farmer Johns, and took off my Fattrax because they were heavy. I put those on a bike-welfare buddy's bike last year and he finally wore them out. I never liked Porc's either.

Before finding the Aggro, I really liked the Specialized MoreExtreme S, and still have two of them, one NOS and the other on a parts bike. Great traction and braking, yet narrow enough to roll well. I also liked the Manitou Fang for a rear tire, but that was a flash in the retail pan.

Before Manitou forks couldn't fit them, I liked the Ritchey 2.35 Z-Max, even when I did bottom it against the crown of my M1 from time to time. Jonesing for that is what sent me down Mutano avenue last year.

I like Smokes, but found the Dart to break away too quickly for my reflexes, and ditched it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

EBasil said:


> For me, my favorite all time pair of tires is the *OnZa Aggro/Honch *combination. I still run an Aggro out back but now a new favorite, the Mutano 2.4k, up front. They climb, handle and brake great, and if you get the ones that don't shed lugs like a snake in heat, they hold up well, too.
> 
> I hated Farmer Johns, and took off my Fattrax because they were heavy. I put those on a bike-welfare buddy's bike last year and he finally wore them out. I never liked Porc's either.
> 
> ...


oooh, the Honch. That was a good one. I actually liked it up front. That was more mid 90s though. Cully used to run it up front. Thats where I got the idea and it worked great. Good braking and cornering.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> oooh, the Honch. That was a good one. I actually liked it up front. That was more mid 90s though. Cully used to run it up front. Thats where I got the idea and it worked great. Good braking and cornering.


Yeah, and I meant to type that I run a Honch out back, not an Aggro. One of my riding buddies runs Honches front and back, since we recently developed a local supply of them. Until the Mutano, the Aggro was the best front I'd ever run.

This won't work, but what the hell:









If the tire is out of production, it's "old"... heh heh heh. Smokes are old, too, even if you can buy it today.


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## Farmer_John (Jan 12, 2004)

HUH?? Someone calling??

Remember when the Dart was first introduced it was available in SC (soft conditions) and HC (hard conditions)? I couldn't tell the difference, but I used them for a long time.


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## SlowSSer (Dec 19, 2003)

Farmer_John said:


> HUH?? Someone calling??
> 
> Remember when the Dart was first introduced it was available in SC (soft conditions) and HC (hard conditions)? I couldn't tell the difference, but I used them for a long time.


he he- sorry- I was referring to the farmer john tire, named after john tomac. it was s silly ad campaign as well with johnny t in a flannel with a sprig of wheat hanging out of his mouth.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*What a great post!*



Fillet-brazed said:


> For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.
> 
> The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...
> 
> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


We should have thought of this sooner!
DL, I agree with you, OnZa Proc is by far my favorite, followed by a Smoke/Dart combo and Ritchey Z-max's... 
I lucked out and bought this brand new white OnZa Porc for $1 at a swap meet....I have yet to see another for sale...

















My collection also consists of:
3 amber Tioga Psycho's
1 grey Tioga Psycho
2 red Ritchey Z-Max's
1 white Panaracer Dart Magic
1 skin wall Panaracer Dart
2 OnZa Porcs (one white, one black)
1 OnZa Honch skin wall
2 1st gen Specialized Ground Controls

I'm a sucker for tires I guess...


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## steveit (Jan 25, 2004)

dont know if these are vintage enough for the subject but liked the maxis helter/skelters for how well they held up


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Another Smoke/Dart addict here. Switched over to the Fat Trax as a front when it came out though. There was a Cycle Pro tire that had a block pattern that I thought made a good rear tire for muddy conditions but I can't remember the name of it at this point....

I always had crappy luck with Specialized tires back in the day. The sidewalls especially.

I have never owned a tire bigger than a 2.2.

This tire that has had the biggest impact on my riding though, it came along 5 yrs ago.


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## singletrackmind (Jan 27, 2004)

*Tioga Farmer John's / Farmer John's Cousin !!!*



SlowSSer said:


> panaracer smoke/dart combo was cool. not to mention the farmer john and the farmer john cousin. so much fun- the origional tractor tread design!


THANK YOU!

For the life of me I couldn't remember the name of the name of those tires. Those were awesome! What the hell did I know? Spec'd on my first mtn. bike (Diamondback Apex)and Johnny "T" used 'em. FJ's on the rear & Cousin's up front left really cool tracks. 

Eventually realized how heavy they were, got caught up in the narrow rim movement, then went with the Smoke/Dart and later a Smoke/Porc combo.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Oh I also have a set of smoke/dart classic Magic kevlars (the white tread ones). Except I got a sidewall slice in the smoke after only 10 rides. Had to resort to the fishing line sewing method of repair.


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

*Big big tires*

For me, the advent of the really big tire -- the Specialized Ground Control "More Extreme 2.5" meant the near end of the rim-pinch flat (without running stupid-high pressures) and therefore I still have a very soft spot (and a lifetime supply) of that particular tire. I still treat my favorite 'Ham to a set whenever it needs it 

WTB's big ~2.5 or so Tyrannoraptor is probably my current favorite for all the same reasons (plus much better tread life). I am hoarding those as well.










-Geoff


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Fisher Fattrax rear
Specialized Ground Control S front or Timbuktu 
Before, IRC X-1 Racer


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

*Wow, thanks for the lead on the Sandjams*



A:42 said:


> I used to love pointing out the cool shell tread to potential Jamis cruiser customers, along with other Chi Chi features like Alloy Rims, Stainless Steel spokes, Plush padded pedals to caress and soothe their tired sand scorched feet, and check out this super comfy "Cheeks" saddle, guaranteed not to turn your Bikini into an impromptu thong during your ride. (this was 91 and thongs were not as "main stream" as they are today).
> I had a great time selling Jamis Crusiers, and most people dug the campy sales pitch, and appreciated the extra features enough to pony up the additional $$ over a plain jane Hampton Cruiser.
> By the way the Sand Jam shell tread tires usually were the coupe de grace, kept back till the end to close the deal.
> 
> If you want some jamis tires in good shape, try giving www.freewheelinbikes.com a call, I bet they still some in stock.


Thanks for the info. I hated to throw those old tires away, cheesy as they were, because they were sweet for a cruiser bike. Just out of curiosity, can you remember how much the Boss Cruiser sold for? Mine is a 6 speed in case they had a singlespeed model too. Thanks.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*For fans of Onza Porcs*

These tires kind of lived on in Dan Sotelo's Love semi-tubeless tires. The Love tires have the Porcupine treads. I noticed that Cambria has some of the Love tires at sale prices, though the Love Tire company has apparently gone T.U. I may try some, being the unrepentant tire junkie that I am. I was always curious about them.

http://www.cambriabike.com/SALE/tires_tubes/index.htm


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## A:42 (Jan 6, 2004)

*Boss 6*



bikerboy said:


> Thanks for the info. I hated to throw those old tires away, cheesy as they were, because they were sweet for a cruiser bike. Just out of curiosity, can you remember how much the Boss Cruiser sold for? Mine is a 6 speed in case they had a singlespeed model too. Thanks.


I think it was around $235-$250 (thought $275 keeps popping up)
Cruisers were very price sensitive, a CB Hampton was $175, and really all most people needed for cruising the beach.  Jamis Boss & Boss 6 were much nicer build wise and had nicer paint, plus those cool pedals and tires. 
The real joke was the Worksman cruisers they were outrageously expensive (like almost $500 in 1990, cheaper now BTW) and a raging piece of crap, but like another overpriced "made in amerika" cycling icon, they were all the rage for a couple of years, (but probably spent less time on a trailer). We gave up selling them cause they were such a warrantee nightmare (but we kept selling Cannondales&#8230;.go figure).

The watershed tire for me was the Ground Control. For it's time (think 80's) it was widely available and had amazing traction. It replaced many a center bead OEM tire. I still have several of the Ground Control S (folding) tires laying about somewhere and have considered throwing on a set to see just how rosy those glasses really are 
Next had to be the Smoke/Pork combo then Smoke Dart combo (Dart S was the better of the 2 in the east, much bigger w/ bigger knobs, more predictable) but by then the field was busting wide open.
I recently saw that Klein was re-introducing the Death Grip, a tire truly before it's time.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

teambender said:


> ONZA Rip
> ONZA Rail
> 
> I also liked the Conti stuff with the brown sidewalls -- Damn! I can't remember the names, but the rear had a serious paddled tread to it. Rocked in the soft stuff...


your roadie is... gorgeous! my favourite paint scheme: schwinn stinger like... breezers had them and i lusted for those bikes.
and anvil is tops. underrated in my book: this guy knows his stuff, in an euro kind of knowing about bikes.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

I just tipped my desk over lusting over that photo of the Cunningham front end. I need a cigarette now.


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## steelbike (Jan 6, 2004)

*umma gumma*



ssmike said:


> I just tipped my desk over lusting over that photo of the Cunningham front end. I need a cigarette now.


LMAO!

That bike's a beaut. So is your SS, which has probably tipped over quite a few desks and laptops.

Umma Gumma's were weird. When I rubbed the tread with my thumb, they seemed to shred like a pencil eraser. But when I rode them, they didn't come apart. Probably because I only weighed 130 at the time.


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## Purple (Jan 9, 2004)

I've just got a brand new 2.1 Dart today for my Orange. I love Smoke/Dart combo. I'am after 1.95-2.1 smoke skin wall brand new now.


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## olds_cool (Feb 15, 2004)

conti pro 1 and pro 2 front and rear. can't remember which is which. worked great in the extremely rocky, technical riding i used to do on the va/wva border. tioga dh 2.35's for the singlespeed.


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## agentorange (Feb 23, 2004)

*Specialized Hardpack 1.5" & Continental Baja Supercross*

After a nightmare race at Blandford Forum (Dorset, UK) in the early 1990's where for 75% of the course was pure mud, unrideable, and clogged my bike to the point of almost quitting the race after lap one... I vowed never to use Ritchey Megabites again. The only guys tearing around the course without clogging their Klein Attitude's were using Specialized Hardpack 1.5" tyres.

I bought a pair, installed them, and from that day I realised I never needed another tyre no matter what the conditions. They were super-quick in singletrack and never clogged in mud, perfect!

Then a few years later I was brought to tears... Specialized decided to drop the 1.5" and produce the 1.8" Hardpack instead. Now you're probably thinking "what's his problem?!" but the 1.8" didn't share exactly the same tread pattern. It was a much tighter tread, and you know what that means... it clogged in mud!

Perhaps in the US you guys didn't feel the pinch because you have very different riding conditions, but the Hardpack 1.5" was one of the most popular tyres in the UK during the early to mid 90's.

I almost went back to Ritchey Megabites but then a friend introduced me to the Continental Baja Supercross - do you remember those? They sported quite an agressive and wide tread pattern which cleared mud easily - a very nice tyre all things considered.

These days the best equivalent of the Hardpack 1.5" is the Continental Cross Country 1.5" but that's the problem, they just ain't retro and so look out of place on a retro build.

Seriously : If anyone has a batch of Specialized Hardpack 1.5" tyres sitting in their basement I'll buy them!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

*Almost retro*



Purple said:


> I've just got a brand new 2.1 Dart today for my Orange. I love Smoke/Dart combo. I'am after 1.95-2.1 smoke skin wall brand new now.


Performance Bike is selling the Smoke and Dart brand new right now for $15 each (or there abouts). It's not the exact same tire, but close. They say "Smoke Classic" instead of just "Smoke" (similar on the dart), but otherwise the tread pattern looks the same (based on my poor memory).


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## Dr_J (Jan 15, 2004)

*Ok, since they are still in production do velociraptors count?*

I think they should since they are celebrating their tenth anniversary this year. How can you not love a product that has seen minimal change yet is still extremily popular 10 years after their initial release? not to mention that the rear tire just plain hooks up. Never been a fan of the front tire (or the panaracer dart for that matter) but have continoulsly had a vraptor rear on my hardtail since the begining. Still havent found a better all purpose trail tire for New England conditions, and it works just as well down here in NM

Going back a few more years the other faves were:
2.5" ground control extreme, no need for those noodly first and 2nd genration susp forks, just stick one of these bad boys on the front of your rig, inflate 30-35 psi, and enjoy 1" of poor mans suspension

G.C. and 1.95 G.C. extreme... always reliable, except sidewalls seemed to last about 2 months on average

porcs... had a couple, loved them, then got hooked on the gce 2.5

Fisher fattrax.... mostly useless but one of the all time best to make homegrown studs for winter

The farmer john series.... never could tell any difference in performance (or lack there of) between the farmer and his cousin. Oh, also the tire who's ad campain was used as ammo by the Sierra Club in many of their early bike banning efforts (I think the line was "eats dirt with gusto" or something like that)

Smokes....great in the softstuff, just dont lean too hard into that granite clad corner...


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

*The enduring classics...*

Would be the ones that have been around for a long, long time. I nominate the IRC Mythos, and also add my vote for the Dart / Smoke. I remember the Mythos from at least 1988, and I think the Dart / Smoke goes back almost as far. How many products have survived 15+ years in the MTB market?


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## agentorange (Feb 23, 2004)

*I hear you but...*

That's an individual issue. Sure a tyre that's lasted so many years could be seen as retro, but the fact of the matter is that it was made i.e. last year. Therefore to me that's not good enough for a retro build - it's just not authentic retro. The beauty/fun of authentic retro is trying to locate a product(s) that went out of production many years ago.

Completely forgot about the Specialized 2.5" Ground Control Extreme. I remember the first time I saw one of those on my team mates Funk, I just couldn't believe how big it was and how little clearance he had around those chunky rigid forks of his!

G.C's in general... not very popular in the UK from what I remember. They came as standard on Spacialized bikes (of course) but as an aftermarket tyre they were not considered by too many racers. I never used them anyway.

Yep, Porcs were excellent offroad, cleared mud gripped well. On hardpack surfaces I wasn't too keen though. The worst thing I ever done was hack around the city showing off with my white Porcs because they wore out so quickly - they looked good while they lasted but I never bought them again after that.

Panaracer Smokes... I could never get on with them mainly due to the cornering aspect. They were good in mud but weren't a good enough all-round tyre for me. I preferred the Megabite to these at the time.

Ha ha! Absolutely agree about the Farmer John series... all the John's offered the same (lack of) performance. The John was a pioneering tyre though, so hats off.


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

I also really liked the Specailized Cannibal 2.2. It was a nice big tire that had pretty good traction for my conditions here in Minn and out in Colo. Wouldn't mind finding another set of those. Agentorange, I remember those Conti 1.5's from back in the day. I had a set for my mtn bike for cross racing. I'd say they qualify as oldschool, even if they are still made. Same goes for Vraptors and Smoke/Darts.

I've still got a set of the Klein Deathgrip 2.35's that I use occaisionally. Good, fast, big tire in dry conditions, but I hate it for wet around here.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

tube_ee said:


> Would be the ones that have been around for a long, long time. I nominate the IRC Mythos, and also add my vote for the Dart / Smoke. I remember the Mythos from at least 1988, and I think the Dart / Smoke goes back almost as far. How many products have survived 15+ years in the MTB market?


Theres no way Mythos were around in 88. Not even the smoke or darts. Mythos I dont know for sure but I would say 96?? I think they were derived from the Missile DH line of tires and those were used in 94 by Volvo Cannondale. So probably 96ish on the Mythos.

The first Smokes came out in very late 90. The Dart probably a year later atleast. Then the good Dart (the one I think most people like) came out a few years later....


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

agentorange said:


> After a nightmare race at Blandford Forum (Dorset, UK) in the early 1990's where for 75% of the course was pure mud, unrideable, and clogged my bike to the point of almost quitting the race after lap one... I vowed never to use Ritchey Megabites again. The only guys tearing around the course without clogging their Klein Attitude's were using Specialized Hardpack 1.5" tyres.
> 
> I bought a pair, installed them, and from that day I realised I never needed another tyre no matter what the conditions. They were super-quick in singletrack and never clogged in mud, perfect!
> 
> ...


Ive got some Extreme Master 1.7s if interested. I have a front and a rear. Like new. These shouldnt clog.....Let me know. Theyve been sitting for 3 years or so.......


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

my first "real" mtb, a cannondale M300, 1994, came with irc piranhapros- cannondale for some reason must've gotten a windfall of rear tires, because all the bikes had rear tires on both wheels. anyways, great tires, and i rode those things day in, day out for YEARS without them wearing down. 
liked the onza rip and rail too, but would never ride them again- way too square.
z-max's have always worked well for me in all conditions, as long as the riding sticks to relatively normal xc stuff. the casing is a little flimsy, though, as i have gotten spoiled on huge irc kujo dh's and tioga factory dh 2.3s.
à propos huge tires, i saw a worn-out specialized 2.5 in a shop i was working at several years ago, and it really was no bigger than a ritchey 2.35, and the ritchey 2.35 is definitely way skinnier than a tioga 2.3 factory dh. what's up with that?
tim


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Theres no way Mythos were around in 88. Not even the smoke or darts. Mythos I dont know for sure but I would say 96?? I think they were derived from the Missile DH line of tires and those were used in 94 by Volvo Cannondale. So probably 96ish on the Mythos.
> 
> The first Smokes came out in very late 90. The Dart probably a year later atleast. Then the good Dart (the one I think most people like) came out a few years later....


I remember the guys at the best bicycle mag of all time (Bicycle Guide) really liking the Mythos. My subscription expired in 1990. Bicycling liked them too, back in the Geoff Drake era, when they were still a real magazine.

Bring back Frank Berto!!

--Shannon


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*The 1.5" Conti Cross Country*

...has been around for 10+ years. That makes it plenty retro.


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Theres no way Mythos were around in 88. Not even the smoke or darts. Mythos I dont know for sure but I would say 96?? I think they were derived from the Missile DH line of tires and those were used in 94 by Volvo Cannondale. So probably 96ish on the Mythos.
> 
> The first Smokes came out in very late 90. The Dart probably a year later atleast. Then the good Dart (the one I think most people like) came out a few years later....


i remeber Bicycle Guide liking the Mythos. My subscription expired in 1990.

--Shannon


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Fillet-brazed said:


> For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.
> 
> The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...
> 
> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


My all-time favorite oldies include:

Michelin Hi-Lite Hot 1.95: Worked everywhere (except pea gravel. Felt like your hubs were loose), great grip and pinch resistant.
Panaracer Dart 2.2 SC: The one with the *BIG* tread blocks. Cornered like no other tire, hardpack, gravel, mud. Loved that tire.
CyclePro Motavator 2.10: A modified square block tire. Work most everywhere but great on hardpack with a skiff of sand/loose on top.


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

tube_ee said:


> i remeber Bicycle Guide liking the Mythos. My subscription expired in 1990.
> 
> --Shannon


The Mythos was designed for the '96 Atlanta Olympic Games and was released to the public late that year.


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## tube_ee (Feb 1, 2004)

shiggy©®™ said:


> The Mythos was designed for the '96 Atlanta Olympic Games and was released to the public late that year.


Did IRC have a tire with a similar name from the era I mentioned? Or was the Mythos re-designed in '96? I was out of the sport in '96, so I couldn't have heard about them then, and when I started riding again in '00, I thought to myself "wow, they still make those!?!"

--Shannon, who is now doubting his memory, in
San Diego, CA

Sorry for the double-post, I had a browser crash while posting the 1st one.


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## MantisMan (Jan 20, 2004)

*I still have a pair of......*

Hardcore Smoke & Darts on my 91 Fisher Supercaliber. The Aggro & Honch were good (but not in mud) and a little bit heavy. Always liked the Z-Max WCS in 2.1 which was light for its time. What about one of the original superlight tires, the IRC Geoclaw light? I'll bet Dee Eight has some of those laying around! Some of the 2.1's came in at under well under 500 grams!


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

tube_ee said:


> Did IRC have a tire with a similar name from the era I mentioned? Or was the Mythos re-designed in '96? I was out of the sport in '96, so I couldn't have heard about them then, and when I started riding again in '00, I thought to myself "wow, they still make those!?!"
> 
> --Shannon, who is now doubting his memory, in
> San Diego, CA


Not that I remember. In the '80s IRC was using names like "Racer X-1" and "ST Racer".

The Mythos was a brand new name and tread (based on the Missile DH tire) in '96.


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## J Ro (Jan 13, 2004)

I 2nd the Dart/Smoke combo. Not only were they great for traction and cornering, they seemed to last very long. I only remeber getting a few flats.


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## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

*Joe Murray and a Smoke!*

I once had a strange combo that worked pretty good in the sticky black dirt we have here in Iowa. It was a Smoke 2.10 in front with a Joe Murray tire out back. I can't remember the specific model of that Murray tire, but it had closley spaced knobs and was super hard to mount on my ritchey rims. The front smoke worked as a great braking tire, while the Murray was a low rolling resistance, narrower tire. I think somewhere in the 1.95 category. Here in Iowa we have lots of tight, twisty single track trails. We just go as fast as we can between corners! So, a front tire with good braking capabilities, and good cornering edges was necessary. Lots of the other guys were running Dart/Smokes, or Porcs/Smokes around here. Then I got into Specialized UmmaGumma stuff, especially the 1.8 Pro Controls, which I still have in the basement! Seems like its a shame to toss them out since they never got worn out, but now I'm riding 29 inch wheels,so They may just end up rotting away!


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## I Love the 90's (Mar 15, 2004)

White Onza 2.1 porky's up front and black side wall Panaracer smoke 1.95's on the rear. The winning combo for us british peeps in the early 90's..... nothing matches this combo, even todays tyres are not as good as these !!!

Where can I get these tyres now!!!!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

*RockStar*

Heres a pic of the Marin Rockstar tire from around 87. Joe Murray designed. A really great rear tire. Did everything well. Its only drawback was it was maybe just a little narrow. I would still use it today if it was made. Quite a difference from the new MTB tires that are meant to have low rolling resistance.


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## Octane (Mar 16, 2004)

About the same time as the Smoke/Dart, Panaracer came out with the "Spike". This 1.95 tire had HUGE (about 3/4" tall) rubber knobs protruding out of it. It was designed for mud and slop conditions at 60psi. 

I remember riding it on the road to get to my favorite muddy trails, and the knobs would vibrate the frame and flex, giving an odd floating feeling over the pavement. And if I remember correctly, they were pretty crappy tires. But they looked cool!

-B


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## aosty (Jan 7, 2004)

BRacing said:


> About the same time as the Smoke/Dart, Panaracer came out with the "Spike". This 1.95 tire had HUGE (about 3/4" tall) rubber knobs protruding out of it. It was designed for mud and slop conditions at 60psi.
> 
> I remember riding it on the road to get to my favorite muddy trails, and the knobs would vibrate the frame and flex, giving an odd floating feeling over the pavement. And if I remember correctly, they were pretty crappy tires. But they looked cool!


I think they were introduced a year or so after the Smoke. They were horrific on pavement.and hardpack but amazing in mud... I remember riding up a mud bog at Mt. Snow with them while everyone I saw around me were hoofing it. 

Oh, I still have my set!


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## Djuc Wun (Jan 10, 2004)

Panaracer Magic's, ive got 5 more of these boys all new and waiting, and the matching grips (a bit thin though!)


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*Finally took some pics*

Finally took some pictures of the tires I have....

I just mounted the OnZa Porc Classic on my Ventana and I forgot how much I love the tire...I'm going to use it for the Sea Otter.

White Porc, white Dart Magic, red Z-max









Brand new red Ritchey Z-max, OnZa Porc Classic


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## justone (Jan 19, 2004)

*Another Smoke/ Dart guy*

I always rode the 2.1 Smoke with the 2.2 Soft Condition Dart., still do. The 2.1 Dart used to wash out on me.

My first "real" MTB was back in '83 or "84, it was the model one notch down from the top line model Ross made ( Mt. Whitney or some other "Mount", can't remember). It was chrome.That was when Jim Redcay was with Ross. I have no idea what tires were on it. Does anyone remember the OEM rubber on those?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

It was probably the old CyclePro Snakebelly. Thats what my old Ross has. They were a big step up in performance over teh old Uniroyal knobby. Saved something like 3 pounds overall in wheel weight.


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

*My vote is for Ground Control*



Fillet-brazed said:


> For me in the late 80s it was a Ground Control S up front and a Marin Rockstar K in the rear.
> 
> The Ritchey Force tires were a decent hardpack race tire but not a good fun all arounder...
> 
> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


here's an original one from wtb

check the pic.


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## YEM (Mar 26, 2004)

*fat trax*



xrmattaz said:


> Gawd, I'm feeling old.
> 
> My most favorite tire...EVER...was the old Fisher Fat Trax.
> 
> ...


man I love that tire I bought an old tassajara with one on it. plain and simple dirt bike like fan tastic tread.still have it dont use but cant bear to throw it out


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## Frankie - B (Feb 24, 2004)

*Tioga*

I really like the feel of the tioga psyco tires! And still got a pair (foldable) in black!

I love em!


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## miles (Jan 6, 2004)

*Too many to recall*

When the Farmer Johns came out, I got a set. Heavy, poor traction, but I never got even one flat tire with those things. 
Ground Controls were OK, but the S version were fantastic. Probably my favorite vintage tire. I'd like to try a new set now to see how well my memory of them matches reality.
Various Ritcheys, from Force to Duro, Z-Max (I liked the Z-Max pretty well).
I ran the Conti Cross Country/Leader Pro combo for years. They were great tires.
My current favorite seems to be in danger of becoming vintage (or at least discontinued) and that is the Geax Sedona... I hope my fears are unfounded. It is my favorite tire of all time.

miles


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## Troll (Jan 28, 2004)

*Yes on the Z-max*

And I would say still in the running if the rubber texture is right.


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## AkDave (Jan 12, 2004)

*I second the 2.2 Dart SC......*



shiggy©®™ said:


> My all-time favorite oldies include:
> 
> Michelin Hi-Lite Hot 1.95: Worked everywhere (except pea gravel. Felt like your hubs were loose), great grip and pinch resistant.
> Panaracer Dart 2.2 SC: The one with the *BIG* tread blocks. Cornered like no other tire, hardpack, gravel, mud. Loved that tire.
> CyclePro Motavator 2.10: A modified square block tire. Work most everywhere but great on hardpack with a skiff of sand/loose on top.


Why did'nt Panaracer bring that jewel back also? This was also the BEST front "snowcat" tire ever! You could rail corners in any snow conditions!!!!!!
Dave


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## andy2 (Jan 13, 2004)

remember those fat slicks ritchey made in the mid 90´s called moabbite for riding on slickrock. grey with black.

my alltime favorite is the Z max up front and a z max SC rear. it´s never the best on any surface but it´s among the top tires. although it´s not very forgiving when you push it too far over the edge, second comes the umma gumma tires, too bad they are so soft never really lasted long.


ad


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

I must admit to changing tyres quite a lot in the past. Ground Controls & ground control extreme in the back in summer, porc in winter. Then later Dart SC2 & smoke lite rear. Around 94/95 IRC piranha pro was real nice up front. never really got on with Zmax up front, but rode 1 in the rear in winter & totally destroyed 1 once in about 4miles from new in a local rock garden DH 

These days a specialized team control up front & fire xc pro in the rear. 

In my old disk drive days used to ride a white onza porc & leave fetching white lines down the newly tarmaced streets of hilly plymouth 

ta

scant


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

teambender said:


> I also liked the Conti stuff with the brown sidewalls -- Damn! I can't remember the names, but the rear had a serious paddled tread to it. Rocked in the soft stuff...


Methinks you are talking about the Conti Pro 1, and it's shorter brother, Pro 2.

BTW, you have the best avatar. Make it yerself?


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## Drevil (Dec 31, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> If the early 90s are considered vintage, I would have to say my favorite all arounder then was the Onza Porcupine.


I started biking seriously in '91. I liked:
Ritchey Z-max 2.35
Pana Duster Pro 1.9 (front and rear)
Pana Smoke & Dart


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## ToddM (Feb 3, 2004)

Lets see I liked:

My favorite combo was a leader pro up front and a conti cross country in the rear.

Conti Leader pro 
Conti cross country
Conti Comp Pro 1 

Zmax wcs 1.7's for mud

I had some horrible IRC yeti tires, one of the 2.5 specialized ground control monsters in the gray compound, a couple klein deathgrips and of course the smoke/dart combo.


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## A:42 (Jan 6, 2004)

*Miles, here's your set of Ground Control S Tires*



mile said:


> .
> Ground Controls were OK, but the S version were fantastic. Probably my favorite vintage tire. I'd like to try a new set now to see how well my memory of them matches reality.
> miles


Miles
PM me for your very own set of NOS GC S tires


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## floody (May 14, 2004)

I didn't get into mtb until late 1994, so my observations may not be period appropriate I dunno - pre 1997-8 is old school to me.... Most of my observations are to do with what I ran on my DH bike, so forgive me if they don't reflect allround riding too well.
I'm yet another to say Smoke/Dart combo was numero uno for me. The 2.1's were pretty good, but the fairly short lived 2.25 SC is still probably the best tyre I've used, big, soft and grippy as hell - the forerunner of all the race compound and "slow reezay" tyres out there now... I never got the complaints about them being unpredictable when right on the edge, but my ex-moto style kind of dictates carving the front in/ big rear drifts anyway so I usually slid the tyres into the corner well before it got a chance to step out on me...
I bought as many of them as I could get when I first heard they were going out of production, and when the supply finally dried up I moved onto those mid 90's specialized DH tyres, Extreme master/control or something - they were 2.35 and had that strange beadlock sidewall, you could easily finish a run on a flat.

I'm probably leaping into the dangerous ground of not-retro-enough here, but I loved the IRC 2.35 Missile/El Gato combo when they were available, not so enamoured of the Kujo that replaced them. But I think if one checks out the IRC trailbear.....methinks they didn't junk the missile moulds 

What was the Hutchinson tyre we all used to run on downhill bikes? about 2.1-2.25 wide, similar tread pattern to a smoke? Hutchinson Rocks?? They were good, but never my favourite.

As for XC stuff, I have to say I loved the Porc's, couldn't fault 'em.


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

floody said:


> What was the Hutchinson tyre we all used to run on downhill bikes? about 2.1-2.25 wide, similar tread pattern to a smoke? Hutchinson Rocks?? They were good, but never my favourite.


Those may be the Hutchinson Coyote. Those are very nice tires and a longtime favorite of stock trials riders. I think they may have put those back into production briefly because because they were back on the Hutchinson website last year but now they're not.


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## Thumbie (Feb 13, 2004)

*Anyone remenber these?*

I remember many favorites or at least milestones.

When I first started riding "mountain bikes", I was running "snake belly" tires (at least, that's what we called them. Of course that was around 81', before production MTBs were really available.) I remember when IRC relased a tire with real knobs on it. Not a great tire, but still a big improvement. The next milestone was the Specialized Ground Control tire. Huge improvement in cornering. Used it on the front of my Cannondale. (the rear wheel was a 24" - did not have many choices there.) Next tire that I really liked was the original Specialized Team Master and Control. They did not wear well though. Don't forget the Specialized Fat Boys. I did a century ride with a pair of these. Still use the latest version of these for road riding. For off-road, I currently run a Enduroraptor front with a Nanoraptor rear. Nanoraptors work way better than they lokk like they would.

I still ride an old Ti hardtail with thumb shifters, a 1st generation XTR crank, and 15° bend flat bar.


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## WuJJ (Jan 30, 2004)

I loved the Panaracer Dart&Smoke and the Tioga Psycho.


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

*Here are my favorites from my collection........*

Panaracer Dart S 2.2 (favorite front tire for soft terrain)
Panaracer Dart 2 2.1
Panaracer Timbuk II
Panaracer Smoke 2.1
Onza Porc (NOS) 
Hutchinson On The Rocks 2.1
Mitsubushi SCCA 2.1
Tioga Mud Dawg
IRC YETI FRO
Specialized Ground Control 1.95 (favorite front tire for hardpack)
Specialized More Extreme 2.5
Specialized Storm Control 1.8 and 2.2
Specialized Hardpack 2.2
Klein Deathgrip 1.9
Ritchey Z Max 2.35 black tread
Cycle Pro Motivator 
Conti Comp Pro 1 (favorite rear tire)
Conti Comp Pro 2
Conti Baja
Conti Cross Country 1.9

I think I have a weekness for oldschool tires.


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## the_dude (Jun 18, 2004)

dart/smoke combo here as well. came on my first bike (nishiki), and lasted for several years before being replaced by velociraptors. my memory could be bad, but wasn't the tread design on the dart/smoke and velociraptors pretty much the same? i seem to remember thinking so at the time, that's why i bought 'em.

the_dude


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## WTB-rider (Jul 25, 2004)

Ground Control S standard or Umma Gumma
Ground Control Extreme 2.5
Porcs
Cannibal 2.2


I'm in the minority here but I never liked the Smoke or Dart.The Z-Max 2.1was okay but not a great tire for the Northeast.The Amber Psycho looked cool as hell but it's performance was average and you could hear it wearing out on a quiet night.The YETI FRO was a decent rear tire.Now it's Velociraptors on my Steve Potts and Mutanos on the Grove.


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

Favorite Tire

Gazzolodi 3.0 because it looked cool, was fun to ride and only fits on 1% of the bikes out there . . . 

Brings back old memorys of those days you were 8 years old riding a Schwinn Stingray and pretending it was a real motorcycle alla Roger DeCoster or B Hanna

-mtnwing


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## Shaun K (Mar 23, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Finally took some pictures of the tires I have....
> 
> I just mounted the OnZa Porc Classic on my Ventana and I forgot how much I love the tire...I'm going to use it for the Sea Otter.
> 
> ...


I had an Onza Porc on the second bike I ever had, a 1993 Parkpre Team 925. I miss that tire, and I miss that bike. I later added one of the Tioga Psychos when I still lived in socal. While it was great there, it did nothing for me when I moved to AZ in 1994. I had many a cactus needle in my skin until I switched tires.

Later, I had the same white Porc on that bike, but at that point (1995) I knew it was rare, so I didn't ride on it much. I wish I still had that tire. Hell, I wish I had any Porc at this point.

Here it is when I first bought it:









And here it is about 3 years later:









I miss that wheelset too. The twist-spoke lacing was bombproof.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Shaun K said:


> I wish I still had that tire. Hell, I wish I had any Porc at this point.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> ...


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

The Farmer John, not cause it rode well (I wouldn't have known the difference if it did), but because it was my first aftermarket bit I ever bought. I shovelled a lot of snow & mowed a lot of lawns to buy my bike, and after drooling over MBA for a few months, I was sure that the only thing left between me and kicking Johnny T's ass was that tire and a T-bone stem. First the tires. I washed all the cars on my street, and went to the shop. I could only afford one, it went on the rear. I rode that bike straight into the ground, but still have the tire here in the shop, and strangely, the tread doesn't even look worn. Very hard compound rubber, but it may be due to aging, dunno. A 12 year old probably doesn't put a lot of wear on a tire...

Later on, I found the Fisher Fattrax did the job, and deflated Fisher Beartrax's (3.0 was it?) were handy in the colossal mud pit that is Wisconsin.

I've got Greg Herbolds Porcupine he raced on at Traverse city, in 93(+/-), but the white ones like Erics are sooo ubershweeeeeet, I'd like a pair of those, but...

my favorite of all time ever were Ritchey ZMax WCS's, the Red (more rust really) Compound. 2.35 in the front, and 1.8 (? the smallest, whatever it was) in the rear. Oh those were some grippy gofast tyres. Those on a 92 merlin, with that black logic fork, full silver/black component & xtr900 build, sooo sleek, so classy, so very very dangerous. Haven't seen those for a while, but wouldn't mind getting me grubby mits on a pair, now that I think about it.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

a friend of mine mentioned seeing a set of white porcs go on ebay, NOS, for something like $500 a few months ago.When I heard the price my first thought was... "musta been tucker..."


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

*HB Only*

[ 2.1 tan/skin wall Porc's are hard to come by...]

Guess what Herbolds is?



Sooo, Eric, how bout a trade, Red Z Max's for Hballs hard to come by 2.1 skinwall? (still sporting the red dusty dirt from his downhill run! Even!) + a little motivational something something, aye? aaye? Nowutimean? Nowutimean? Aye? Aye? Ayyyye...

Another photo's of aforementioned rubber, for those of you with the appropriate fetish.

Dart 2.2 SC, Fattrax, Farmer John...


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## Shaun K (Mar 23, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> a friend of mine mentioned seeing a set of white porcs go on ebay, NOS, for something like $500 a few months ago.When I heard the price my first thought was... "musta been tucker..."


WOW! $500?!?! Now I really wish I had kept that white one. I'm pretty sure I paid $5 for it


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

*A couple months ago, I passed up..........*

a couple white Onza Porcs from an old bike shop that was going out of business. I wanted them but they had so many sweet NOS tires that I couldn't buy them all. I was in heaven. If I had known the white Porcs were so desirable, I would have got them instead. Here's what I did buy: Conti Comp Pro 2 wire, Conti XC 1.9 wire, black Onza Porc wire, Hutchinson On The Rock Kevlar, IRC Mythos Slick 2.1 Kevlar, Conti Goliath 1.6, two Specialized Storm Control 1.8s and a 2.2, Spec. Pro Control 1.95 Umma Gumma, and I think a couple more that I can't remember. All for $5 each! Can you believe that? This guy was hording NOS tires in the back room. Way too many for me to buy them all. Now you probably know what I meant when I said I was in heaven.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

grawbass said:


> a couple white Onza Porcs from an old bike shop that was going out of business. I wanted them but they had so many sweet NOS tires that I couldn't buy them all. I was in heaven. If I had known the white Porcs were so desirable, I would have got them instead. Here's what I did buy: Conti Comp Pro 2 wire, Conti XC 1.9 wire, black Onza Porc wire, Hutchinson On The Rock Kevlar, IRC Mythos Slick 2.1 Kevlar, Conti Goliath 1.6, two Specialized Storm Control 1.8s and a 2.2, Spec. Pro Control 1.95 Umma Gumma, and I think a couple more that I can't remember. All for $5 each! Can you believe that? This guy was hording NOS tires in the back room. Way too many for me to buy them all. Now you probably know what I meant when I said I was in heaven.


We'll all be needing the name of that shop now thank you very much!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

flyingsuperpetis said:


> [ 2.1 tan/skin wall Porc's are hard to come by...]
> 
> Guess what Herbolds is?
> 
> ...


Well...I do have two red Z-max tires...there is a guy that is selling NOS ones in UK (on ebay) from time to time if you really want NOS...

But, I do have the low milage red that would seem a fair trade for the low milage Porc...
Straight up trade if you're willing? Or are you looking for brand spankin'?

I did happen upon a 2.1 skin wall Porc on eBay a few months ago...but I'd actually like to use one.

I guess we could settle this via email.  

The low mileage red is pictured here:


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

*It was an old Shwinn shop.....*

in Dearborn Michigan. Unfortunately it has been closed for a couple months now. I would have told everyone about it earlier but my computer was messed up at the time. If I can somehow get ahold of the old owner, I'll let you know. On a similar note, a few months ago I was at one of the more popular shops in the area snooping around the mechanics area in the back and to my surprise there was a NOS Specialized Storm Control 1.8 hanging on the wall. They said it had been there for years. I picked that one up for $15.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

tl1 said:


> These tires kind of lived on in Dan Sotelo's Love semi-tubeless tires. The Love tires have the Porcupine treads. I noticed that Cambria has some of the Love tires at sale prices, though the Love Tire company has apparently gone T.U. I may try some, being the unrepentant tire junkie that I am. I was always curious about them.
> 
> http://www.cambriabike.com/SALE/tires_tubes/index.htm


Many years ago when my son was very young, he played in a local youth basketball league. My wife used to take him to practice and games and I was spending a lot of time coaching my daughter (who is five years older) in soccer so I didn't get to take him there very often. I remember her coming home one day and saying that one of the other dads from the team told her that he invents mountain bike parts and that she thinks I'd like to meet him.

To myself, I was thinking, "Yeah right, he probably 'invents' bar end streamers and bells&#8230;." and kind of forgot about it. But she kept telling me about this guy that 'invents mountain bike parts'.

Finally we both showed up at a game on the same day and I met Dan Sotelo, the 'mountain bike part inventor'. I got to know him and his family over the next few years and learned of his many inventions over the years. His personal history of being 'in the industry' was fascinating. He also turned me on to a few freebies to try out including Box pedals and Nuts tires (great tires BTW). The guy always had something going on and I got to see many prototypes of parts that he was developing including the Love tubeless tires. He also claimed to have coined the infamous phrase, "Shut up and ride" during his roadie days.

They relocated up north some years ago and I have not seen them in a while. Thanks for the 'blast from the past'.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

jeffj said:


> Many years ago when my son was very young, he played in a local youth basketball league. My wife used to take him to practice and games and I was spending a lot of time coaching my daughter (who is five years older) in soccer so I didn't get to take him there very often. I remember her coming home one day and saying that one of the other dads from the team told her that he invents mountain bike parts and that she thinks I'd like to meet him.
> 
> To myself, I was thinking, "Yeah right, he probably 'invents' bar end streamers and bells&#8230;." and kind of forgot about it. But she kept telling me about this guy that 'invents mountain bike parts'.
> 
> ...


One of those Onza guys went to my high school a few years ahead of me. I forgot which one it was. I think I met him before Onza took flight but cant be sure. Dan Sotello sounds familiar though. Wasnt there two or three of them that founded it?


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

I'm pretty sure he had a partner, but don't know who he was.


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## wilhelm (Sep 10, 2004)

Another vote for Porc's but I like them on the back tire better, I can control their grip really well. I still ride Psycho in front and Porc in back, haven't tried anything else because I don't need too. I still have at least 1 new Psych and Porc in the garage.

I'll have to check my stock but I have both sizes of the Klein Deathgrips, I wish they made a size in between. I know I have a red Z-max and probably some Darts and Smokes.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

*More vintage tire photos....*

Sorry if some are a repeat....but my collection is growing. Not good...well...it's not bad either! 

OnZa Porc's...skin/tan wall 2.1 kevlar, 1.95 black (with orange stripe) kevlar porc II, wire bead all black 1.95 a la eBay, and the highly sought after white Porc, which..like an idiot...it took on one ride...


















White....well...more of an egg shell Panaracer Magic tires. 1 smoke, 2 darts, and 1...newer dart.









Specialized Umma Gumma's...an orig Ground Control 1.95, a very cool More Extreme 2.5, and a 1.8 GC Team (or something like that).









Grey Tioga Psycho, 2 amber Tioga Psychos, a red Z-max, A blue Panaracer Magic, and a non vintage red Mich...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Wow! Nice collection. Where did you find the elusive white Porc?? I just got two new ones last week. Hard to find.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Wow! Nice collection. Where did you find the elusive white Porc?? I just got two new ones last week. Hard to find.


How the hell did you get two new ones last week!!!! Lucky, lucky, lucky. Does that mean you'll give me your old crusty one now? 

Mine is the only one I've ever seen for sale...I bought it brand new at the Cupertino Bike swap three/four years ago for the hefty sum of $1.

You know who's looking for a pair and it willing to pay big bucks for them....
You don't need a hint...but he's not been around much as of late.


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## vdubbusrider (Jul 28, 2004)

i really dont use too many of these tires anymore. back in the early day i was on fisher fat trax and ground control. when z-max came out they were my favorite except when there was sand anywhere. those z-max's were worthless in sand. the porc's were only ridden in on the mud days since LA had such aweful mud and the porc's did a great job of shedding. on good days they would not last one ride because of how soft the tread was. the darts and conti baja tires were horrible tires in dry so-cal. i can jump on z-max tires and ground controls today on my modern bikes and corner just as fast .


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

For me the greatest combination ever for eastern singletrack was an umma gumma cannibal S on the back and a white porc on the front.

Hey Eric and anyone else... do we have a weight on the current production porc classics?
I hate to say I'd go back to wire beads but if its all thats available I might have to.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

lucifer said:


> For me the greatest combination ever for eastern singletrack was an umma gumma cannibal S on the back and a white porc on the front.
> 
> Hey Eric and anyone else... do we have a weight on the current production porc classics?
> I hate to say I'd go back to wire beads but if its all thats available I might have to.


I'll have to weigh the one(s) I have. I don't recall them being all that light (wire or kevlar).


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## vdubbusrider (Jul 28, 2004)

here are a few tires i had lying around:

dart, storm control, z-max, michelin hi-lite hot, cannibal









smoke dart, ritchey force, farmer john cousin, panaracer magic white, irc racer


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## Blizzard (Oct 8, 2004)

Well,

I started off with Tioga Trail Dawg/Mud Dawg combo. Ok at the time. Trail Dawg is still on a bike I have, with a Smoke copy in rear. The Farmer John was still popular but considered antiquated. I agree the FJ Cousin was as good or better. I think I even had a cousin on something once.

Next was Ritchey WCS tires. They came on a bike, they were ok, but clogged horrible with red clay where I rode.

So off to Tioga Psycho Front/Panaracer Smoke rear. This worked. I think I was going to order a Dart but they were out. This was a good combo for wet red clay. Not good for beach sand (dug holes).

I don't ride as serious anymore, so just about any half-a$$ tire will do, since tires are better in my opinion.

Never had the Onza Porc's wanted some, but just never had the chance.


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## Shaun K (Mar 23, 2004)

Well, Rumpfy wanted a pic of my Porcs once they were on. Here's my not-so-retro Bianchi with the Porc on the rear. I never liked it much on the rear, but it was quite a bit better today than the WTB Weirwolf that the bike came with.


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