# Ebike riders get more exercise than cyclists?



## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Interesting....









Believe it or not, study shows e-bike riders get more exercise than cyclists


Electric bicycle riders have always known that e-bikes can actually be a great form of exercise. But a new study...




electrek.co


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## EABiker (Jun 24, 2004)

This will not end well...


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

Good gawd, what a dumb article. Just say that e-bikes get some people out exercising at all that otherwise would be on the sofa and leave it at that. That's not a bad thing, but don't try to twist a "study" into a piece of BS click-bait.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Not interested in baloney.


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## Noplacelikeloam (Mar 2, 2021)

"The study’s authors even go as far as to say the results should potentially be used to lobby for increased e-bike usage and improved e-biking infrastructure."

Ok, so now we know the purpose of the study.

Also for the record, the majority of people will raise their heart rate to 80% max by walking up a 3% grade for a few minutes. Source: Harvard.

So, basically its saying that its a bit better than that.

Right then.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Cool story bro.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

Noplacelikeloam said:


> Also for the record, the majority of people will raise their heart rate to 80% max by walking up a 3% grade for a few minutes. Source: Harvard.


Can confirm I'm like that. It doesn't feel weird or anything, just shocking when I see the numbers on my HR tracker. It's just walking! My HR goes only slightly higher if I hammer my bike up a steep climb (with my square taper bottom bracket and FSA crankset complaining) with over 50 pounds of luggage bolted to the rear.

Getting one's heartrate up does not equal good exercise!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

1813254617.th said:


> Getting one's heartrate up does not equal good exercise!


All exercise is good. Not everyone needs to "hammer" all the time to see health benefits. In fact, steady low intensity efforts do quite a lot for overall cardio health.

That said, this article...worthless.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

noapathy said:


> All exercise is good. Not everyone needs to "hammer" all the time to see health benefits. In fact, steady low intensity efforts do quite a lot for overall cardio health.
> 
> That said, this article...worthless.


That I fully agree with. I just think cardio is far from the only type of exercise one needs.

Doing only cardio is vastly better than doing nothing, though.

I won't even grace this article with my view. Saying e-bikes riders get more exercise than cyclists is kind of like saying e-sports gamers playing sports games get about as much exercise as athletes because they also sweats a lot, need intense concentration, and have their HR go up.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

If it had an ebike I would use it more per week for short rides and grocery getting and such vs. my regular bike which is strictly relegated to commuting duties as I don't want to schelp groceries on my commuter as it is not set up like that nor is it set up as a casual bike which would certainly mean more exercise for me, even it was assist and short distance trips, vs. now where i combine these trips into car trips. 

That said this is a pretty clickbaity article, especially coming from electrek and the actual study being of european countries where bike commuting and errand riding is a lot more normal than the US where bikes are still considered toys by a large percentage of the population and bike related infrastructure is a secondary or even tertiary consideration in a lot of municipalities vs ensure that single occupant vehicles can get to and from starbucks the most efficiently.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

While the article that _CJ linked to does feel very click-baity and biased, there is an actual study behind it...









Physical activity of electric bicycle users compared to conventional bicycle users and non-cyclists: Insights based on health and transport data from an online survey in seven European cities


Physical activity has been widely associated with beneficial health effects. The use of electric-assist bicycles (e-bikes) can lead to increased or de…




www.sciencedirect.com





Having just spent 11 days in Italy (including time in Rome, Naples, and La Spezia), I saw tons of people using e-bikes for both recreation and utility. Pretty cool, imo...

Heck, I even rented one to accompany my daughter around Rome while she was running (faster than I can anymore) at night. I started on one of those e-scooters, which ran outta battery, I searched for another one and it turned out to be an e-bike. Really fun, actually.

edit: oh yeah, I saw 2 "real" mountain bikers while hoofing it through the cobblestone streets of a small medieval town. And, around Lake Como, I saw tons and tons of roadies, including what appeared to be pro teams out for really fast training rides (30-35 mph pacelining through twisty relatively flat terrain).


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## LVLBTY (Jul 15, 2020)

Alternative facts


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## walkerwalker (Jul 17, 2020)

so, people who exercise more get more exercise? What an astounding revalation.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Agree it's too click baity but it seems like a lot of people aren't getting the gist of the article. People tend to use their ebikes more often and for longer periods than they would on a regular bike, thus more exercise.

How is that a bad thing?


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

You know, after some more thought. If improving e-bike infrastructure benefits cyclists in any way, I say why not? Where I live, you're expected to do everything in cars. When I search up public transportation routes. Google tells me to DRIVE to XXX station instead of, you know, take another bus there or walk there.

Ridiculous.

I can bring my bikes on buses, trains, and the like, but there isn't enough safe roads and parking spaces for bikes for me to ride to those bus/train stations.

One other very good thing is that e-bikes opens up "cycling" to a much wider audience. That means I can go riding with some of my friends that just do not want to hammer away in a bike saddle. I'm just concerned that manufacturers will once again find a way to make e-bikes so overpriced and overcomplicated that they're useless for the masses.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

1813254617.th said:


> You know, after some more thought. If improving e-bike infrastructure benefits cyclists in any way, I say why not? Where I live, you're expected to do everything in cars. When I search up public transportation routes. Google tells me to DRIVE to XXX station instead of, you know, take another bus there or walk there.
> 
> Ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Agreed and Seattle is a fairly bike oriented town so I see tons of every day folks riding ebikes around here. There is a company from here that is well known for making utilitarian ebikes that are cheap and well made. I see tons on the road and Mixed user paths here. (Rad Power bikes). It is easy for companies to make an expensive ebike just like car companies can make an expensive car but if you want cheap alternate fueled vehicles bikes are where it is at currently. I wonder if any car manufacturer builds a Rad bikes style car if a lot of folks that might migrate to the ebikes might make the jump to car instead.

I'd get one of these: RadWagon 4
price is insanely good for what you get.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

rockcrusher said:


> I wonder if any car manufacturer builds a Rad bikes style car if a lot of folks that might migrate to the ebikes might make the jump to car instead.
> 
> I'd get one of these: RadWagon 4
> price is insanely good for what you get.


Ohh, if someone made a small electric car that is basically an enclosed recumbent with assist I'd ride the absolute **** out of that!


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## walkerwalker (Jul 17, 2020)

1813254617.th said:


> Ohh, if someone made a small electric car that is basically an enclosed recumbent with assist I'd ride the absolute **** out of that!


Let me google that for you:








the CityQ is 4-wheel electric bicycle with car-like functions and comfort






www.designboom.com













Frikar e-bike - Podbike


Frikar ebike: A four-wheeled e-bike with full weather protection. Seating one adult and a child. Click here to learn more.




www.podbike.com


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

rockcrusher said:


> That said this is a pretty clickbaity article, especially coming from electrek and the actual study being of european countries where bike commuting and errand riding is a lot more normal than the US where bikes are still considered toys by a large percentage of the population and bike related infrastructure is a secondary or even tertiary consideration in a lot of municipalities vs ensure that single occupant vehicles can get to and from starbucks the most efficiently.


This. When every city/town/etc is laid out for cars only and the mass transit is lacking to say the least, getting people to ride (e-bikes/bikes/etc) will always be a struggle. I'm glad some cities are making efforts to change, but it's still not nearly enough.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

walkerwalker said:


> Let me google that for you:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yup, something like that. I was thinking about the Raht Racer velomobile from a while back, but toned down to be more friendly to cyclists.

A 3-wheeled velomobile is closer to what I had in mind, the CityQ is still too car-like for my tastes. It's probably more practical, though.


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## 915654 (Jul 27, 2021)

_CJ said:


> Interesting....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is the research article:


https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340563740_E-bikes-good_for_public_health



The article is coming from a bias source. The key words they are using is “more exercise”. But is it improving a person’s health?


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

noapathy said:


> This. When every city/town/etc is laid out for cars only and the mass transit is lacking to say the least, getting people to ride (e-bikes/bikes/etc) will always be a struggle. I'm glad some cities are making efforts to change, but it's still not nearly enough.


Also climate. I'm in a small town in NH where I can ride, but we're just entering snow season when the roads can be covered in sand, grit and ice from now until April. It would be hard to justify an eBike to do quick grocery runs etc... when it might not get used for 1/3 of the year.

My gravel bike is cleaned and on my Kickr for Zwift, and my MTB is cleaned and about to move to the basement until spring.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> People tend to use their ebikes more often and for longer periods than they would on a regular bike, thus more exercise.


I read that concept all the time. Is it true? Anecdotally, I’ve viewed the Strava history of acquaintances that ride ebikes. I haven’t seen any evidence those rides are any longer that what the same rider previously did on an actual bicycle.

Again, anecdotal. Certainly, a number of folks on here are going to prove me wrong and be outraged.


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## chiefsilverback (Dec 20, 2019)

Blatant said:


> I haven’t seen any evidence those rides are any longer that what the same rider previously did on an actual bicycle.


Are you using distance or time as your measure for "longer"?

If someone can only fit in a 90 minute ride then it will be 90 minutes regardless of what bike they are on, but on an ebike they might cover 25-30% more distance for the same amount of energy burned.

One appeal of an ebike for me would be allowing me to do longer routes in the same amount of time, giving me more options when I ride.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

Blatant said:


> I read that concept all the time. Is it true? Anecdotally, I’ve viewed the Strava history of acquaintances that ride ebikes. I haven’t seen any evidence those rides are any longer that what the same rider previously did on an actual bicycle.
> 
> Again, anecdotal. Certainly, a number of folks on here are going to prove me wrong and be outraged.


I personally have no problem believing that. Out of five of my friends who ride bikes, two can somewhat keep up with me (I mainly do bikepacking), one likes shredding trails but cannot for the life of him go up hill, one cannot keep up with us at all, and one hates doing long distance despite being able to (he can probably do circles around me is he so chose, he just hates the effort). All five agree that having electric assist would be bliss. I'd say the latter three would definitely ride a lot more if they had e-bikes.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

1813254617.th said:


> I personally have no problem believing that. Out of five of my friends who ride bikes, two can somewhat keep up with me (I mainly do bikepacking), one likes shredding trails but cannot for the life of him go up hill, one cannot keep up with us at all, and one hates doing long distance despite being able to (he can probably do circles around me is he so chose, he just hates the effort). All five agree that having electric assist would be bliss. I'd say the latter three would definitely ride a lot more if they had e-bikes.


Not attacking you, but that’s simply conjecture and not based in any fact.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

Blatant said:


> Not attacking you, but that’s simply conjecture and not based in any fact.


We're both running purely on anecdotes and conjecture. Real unbiased studies have to be done on this topic. Said studies also have to take into account different groups of people, cyclists, MTBers. commuters, average non-biker, etc. There also has to be studies on the quality of exercise provided by e-bikes vs regular unassisted bikes.


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## Blatant (Apr 13, 2005)

There is a difference between anecdotal evidence and conjecture. Surely you’re not pointing to the “study” linked in the OP of this thread as evidence.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Blatant said:


> There is a difference between anecdotal evidence and conjecture. Surely you’re not pointing to the “study” linked in the OP of this thread as evidence.


yeah, it's not like a study of 10,000 riders could be even remotely more accurate than your anecdotal observations.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

chiefsilverback said:


> Are you using distance or time as your measure for "longer"?
> 
> If someone can only fit in a 90 minute ride then it will be 90 minutes regardless of what bike they are on, but on an ebike they might cover 25-30% more distance for the same amount of energy burned.
> 
> One appeal of an ebike for me would be allowing me to do longer routes in the same amount of time, giving me more options when I ride.




For me time is a lot more relevant than distance.


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## Noplacelikeloam (Mar 2, 2021)

100% clickbait. The research article is actually analyzing modes of transport. Ebikes vs car vs bus vs train. Well then, I think we all know which one is a better form of exercise.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

Just getting in before it gets closed.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

rockcrusher said:


> That said this is a pretty clickbaity article


This is also a clickbaity thread title. Seems that these stupid E-bike threads get the most attention around here amongst the tumbleweeds...


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> For me time is a lot more relevant than distance.


So if someone rides 20% more in terms of time at 50% effort, does that equate to "more exercise"? Just random stats for thought. I think the only ones that may benefit are those who are at or close to zero before getting an e-bike.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

noapathy said:


> I think the only ones that may benefit are those who are at or close to zero before getting an e-bike.




That's my point, I think a large percentage of ebike enthusiasts are recreational riders who's regular bike has been collecting cobwebs in the shed for 20 years.

I do believe there are a lot of people getting out regularly because they find them enjoyable and wouldn't be riding at all otherwise. Half of them may not even really like riding a regular bike at all. These people are getting 100% more exercise.


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## underblu (Aug 24, 2021)

The fact of the matter is that variables such as terrain, topography, gearing and bike type all affect rider input and energy expended

An ebike rider can easily input more energy than a non ebike rider depending on the above variables.

Additionally some riders ebike or non ebike prefer a more leisurely ride while others prefer a more vigorous workout both of which are possible on either bike type

The fallacy propagated by some ebike haters: that ebikes are for the lazy and the perennially unfit is a load of hogwash.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

The people who ride ebikes are the same people that have to YouTube where the windshield washer fluid fill spout is on their minivan.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

noapathy said:


> So if someone rides 20% more in terms of time at 50% effort, does that equate to "more exercise"? Just random stats for thought. I think the only ones that may benefit are those who are at or close to zero before getting an e-bike.


Right -- define "more exercise." Did the article? Sorry, I didn't read it.
=sParty


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

And people say roadies are elitists


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's my point, I think a large percentage of ebike enthusiasts are recreational riders who's regular bike has been collecting cobwebs in the shed for 20 years.
> 
> I do believe there are a lot of people getting out regularly because they find them enjoyable and wouldn't be riding at all otherwise. Half of them may not even really like riding a regular bike at all. These people are getting 100% more exercise.


If you said that part and I missed it, sorry. Some is better than none for sure. Still doesn't make it a good article.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

noapathy said:


> Still doesn't make it a good article.



Agreed. The article sucks.


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## NoCanSurf (Feb 19, 2021)

Noplacelikeloam said:


> "The study’s authors even go as far as to say the results should potentially be used to lobby for increased e-bike usage and improved e-biking infrastructure."
> 
> Ok, so now we know the purpose of the study.


If e-bike infrastructure is usable by old fashion pedaling bikes. I would say if we got more safe ways to ride from point-a to point-b, I'm for it. 

I live in Honolulu Hawaii which should be peek bike riding for the Untied States - Year round great weather, layed back lifestyle, compressed geography, high gas prices, nightmare traffic congestion... its the ideal location for bicycle travel and yet its not. It's getting better with recent addition of separated bike lanes. Now I only nearly get nearly murdered by a car once per ride. The city recently opened bike lanes to electric scooters. At first I was kind of pissed, but once I thought about it, every e-scooter, e-bike, one wheeler I see is one less car.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

NoCanSurf said:


> If e-bike infrastructure is usable by old fashion pedaling bikes. I would say if we got more safe ways to ride from point-a to point-b, I'm for it.
> 
> I live in Honolulu Hawaii which should be peek bike riding for the Untied States - Year round great weather, layed back lifestyle, compressed geography, high gas prices, nightmare traffic congestion... its the ideal location for bicycle travel and yet its not. It's getting better with recent addition of separated bike lanes. Now I only nearly get nearly murdered by a car once per ride. The city recently opened bike lanes to electric scooters. At first I was kind of pissed, but once I thought about it, every e-scooter, e-bike, one wheeler I see is one less car.


Indeed, anything to aid in the fight against car dependency and make things easier for cyclists is a win in my book.


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## QuickSilverZ (Oct 23, 2011)

All of the e-bikers that I encounter sure don't look like they have been getting very much exercise....


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## Fleas (Jan 19, 2006)

Nice spin on that article.

It doesn't seem to apply to someone who has a specific amount of time to ride.
"_The study’s authors largely attribute this to the increased amount of time that e-bike riders spend on their bikes, compared to cyclists and the longer-distance trips taken by e-bike riders._ "

And those last 3 paragraphs are just crap.

-F


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

rockcrusher said:


> I'd get one of these: RadWagon 4
> price is insanely good for what you get.


That looks like a pretty awesome setup.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I picked up a couple of e-fatties a year ago for me and my daughter.

They are primarily used for winter mountain trail riding. That said, last year and this year, I switched over in late fall from our non-e, non-fatty bikes, and got a fair amount of technical dirt/rock in on them before the snow began falling. This was especially true this year, due to a month and a half delay in the onset of winter and snow.

Here are my observations with the e-fatty:

1. I have sometimes ridden further distance-wise on a single ride, but rarely time-wise.

2. I can definitely get beyond zone 2 but only if I make a conscious effort to rip it up out there. Some times I do. Most times I do not. Generally my HR remains in Zone 2

3. If I didn’t Zwift regularly, I would sustain a material, rapid drop in my conditioning over the winter months.

Riding my e-fattie is fun. It’s a much different kind of fun though. It’s way more laid back and less adrenalin charged. Unless I really push it, I can’t even get the endorphins flowing, even on legit blacks. There is no high fiving going on at the summit after a sustained climb. At most, maybe a reserved comment that the trail is in good condition, that the snow in the trees looks beautiful, and that the studded Wrathchilds can seemingly claw their way through everything, followed by a pic or two.

For people who don’t ride regularly, I suspect that an e-bike can result in an increase in their conditioning, depending how hard they push themselves. For me, I would be absolutely screwed come spring if I was not Zwifting a minimum of 3 times per week throughout winter (despite hitting the mountains on the e-bikes 2 to 3 times per week).

For the entire month of February, I expect to be e-fat riding daily on trails designated as blue and black for summer months. Occasionally double blacks too. I will be bringing my Wahoo KICKR bike along for us as well, and using it regularly. Without it, my conditioning will decline, likely rapidly.

I suspect for most of us here, e-biking would not be a good source of conditioning. It’s fun, but it’s definitely not something I can rely on to even maintain my fitness, let alone enhance it.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

NoCanSurf said:


> Now I only nearly get nearly murdered by a car once per ride. The city recently opened bike lanes to electric scooters. At first I was kind of pissed, but once I thought about it, every e-scooter, e-bike, one wheeler I see is one less car.


Do they have a speed limit on the city bike path now that they allow e-scooters? I hope so, because that King Street path is already dangerous as it is (cars not paying attention when crossing it etc)


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> Do they have a speed limit on the city bike path now that they allow e-scooters? I hope so, because that King Street path is already dangerous as it is (cars not paying attention when crossing it etc)


I was going to comment on this as well. I commute daily on an extensive set of paved bike paths. I travel over 10 Kms one way and am on a riverside paved path for 95% of the ride. E-bikers are going to kill someone out there, if they haven’t already.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I suspect for most of us here, e-biking would not be a good source of conditioning. It’s fun, but it’s definitely not something I can rely on to even maintain my fitness, let alone enhance it.


Not in my case. Without question, the e-machine gets me out on the bike more often, and often for more time. Where I live, there are no easy rides. Nothing is flat. Riding = climbing, a lot of climbing. So those days when I'd just stay home because I'm too tired to get out there and deal with the hills, the e-bike gives me an option other than grinding away on a trainer in the basement. In fact, I gave away my indoor trainer, because I'd rather go outside and ride my bike, or hike, or shovel show, or chop firewood. Virtually anything is better than being tethered to one of those god awful indoor trainers.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I was going to comment on this as well. I commute daily on an extensive set of paved bike paths. I travel over 10 Kms one way and am on a riverside paved path for 95% of the ride. E-bikers are going to kill someone out there, if they haven’t already.


Maybe it is time for more bothersome laws and regulations for our own good? 

Mike - you may want to change your tag line, if you catch my drift


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Hahahaha! Such a thorough assessment of 'exercise'! I'd go farther and longer with a motor, too, I imagine.

We all know there are more accurate measures of exertion than time on the bike, not to take anything away from e-bikers who are putting forth reasonable, or higher, effort. 

_The study’s authors largely attribute this to the increased amount of time that e-bike riders spend on their bikes, compared to cyclists and the longer-distance trips taken by e-bike riders._


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Makes one wonder if the “the study’s authors” are masters of conjecture. 
=sParty


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Sparticus said:


> Makes one wonder if the “the study’s authors” are masters of conjecture.
> =sParty


I think you're right, but I still haven't read it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

noapathy said:


> I think you're right, but I still haven't read it.


Me neither!


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## NoCanSurf (Feb 19, 2021)

Jack7782 said:


> Do they have a speed limit on the city bike path now that they allow e-scooters? I hope so, because that King Street path is already dangerous as it is (cars not paying attention when crossing it etc)


im certain they do, I just don’t know it.

i was passed by an e-bike today while struggling up a hill. I get why people don’t like’em. My ego was a bit deflated as I watch him go effortlessly up the hill. I reasoned we’re riding for different reasons AND he was one less car on the road.
I was also passed by a guy on a road bike in full team kit. He let me hold his wheel for about a mile. I yelled “thank you!’ He wished me a good day. It was a good reminder how biking can be.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Sparticus said:


> Me neither!


It wasn't much of a study.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's my point, I think a large percentage of ebike enthusiasts are recreational riders who's regular bike has been collecting cobwebs in the shed for 20 years.
> 
> I do believe there are a lot of people getting out regularly because they find them enjoyable and wouldn't be riding at all otherwise. Half of them may not even really like riding a regular bike at all. These people are getting 100% more exercise.


Agreed. Similar to the person without formal training, riding time or rigor who experiences greater gains with said supports vs. less notable gains made by well-trained cyclist. The ceiling is much closer for the latter.


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I don't see anyone on my commute, because the route sucks. An eBike for me would just mean an easier ride, or shorter ride. Definitely not an improvement for my fitness.

Most eBikes I see are on the trails are people who just don't want to do the work anymore of climbing. Basically they shuttle trails you can't shuttle. Doesn't seem like an improvement.

I actually don't mind eBikes replacing cars, but I don't see it. My first experiences with eBikes were commuters near the UCSD area of San Diego, didn't hurt my ego either. 

I am personally seeing eBikes as recreation replacing bicycles as recreation. Until cycling infrastructure improves, I won't see them replacing cars. Just more eToys.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Sidewalk said:


> Basically they shuttle trails you can't shuttle. Doesn't seem like an improvement.


One person's improvement is another's deterioration.
Personally, compared to mountain biking -- as separate a sport from ebiking as it is from off-road motorcycling -- I prefer mountain biking.
But I do have an ebike and I enjoy riding it as well, just not as much as I enjoy riding mountain bikes.
Anyway you're right, Sidewalk, the ebike allows me to de facto shuttle my local winch-&-plummet trail systems* which means I can get more runs in for the same (okay, less) effort.
These w&p systems include Alsea Falls, Black Rock & Sandy Ridge. With the ebike, I can easily lap these systems twice as much as I can while riding my pedal bike, primarily because of the vert.
That said, the descending is much more fun on my pedal bike, which weighs close to 20# less than my ebike.
So... improvement or deterioration? The answer depends on which end of the telescope you're looking through.
=sParty

*Not shuttleable by vehicle.

P.S. I've owned the ebike less than a year. So far the thing I've employed it for most, and what I consider it's best use (for me) is pulling my BOB trailer full of trail tools in order to accomplish significant trailwork even in the deepest recesses of the forest. Can't shuttle to these spots, either.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> The people who ride ebikes are the same people that have to YouTube where the windshield washer fluid fill spout is on their minivan.


Please send me a link, I’ve been looking for that washer fluid tank. Really? You sound like the most ignorant individual with two pedals. The reality is the majority of emtbrs are actually very well educated and pretty well off financially.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Gutch said:


> Please send me a link, I’ve been looking for that washer fluid tank. Really? You sound like the most ignorant individual with two pedals. The reality is the majority of emtbrs are actually very well educated and pretty well off financially.


IME this is true. 
=sParty


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

My test ride on an e-bike DID give me more exercise, just like the article said.

I was test-riding traditional 29ers on a ~4 mile mtb trail loop. It was spring, I was out of shape, so I test rode two bikes and felt too tired to test a 3rd one through the 4-mile loop. But then I saw they had a Specialized e-bike so figured I'd try that and had planned to just let it do the work since I was tired. I ended up liking it so much that I pedalled harder than I planned to on the flats and uphills. Mild uphills that were just a grind on the non-assist bikes were actually fun on the e-bike and I pedalled harder or at least just as hard as on the previous two non-assist bikes. I got back from that loop and was thoroughly beat by then but now I know that I'll one day have an e-bike. I just bought a bike in 2019 so I'll try to wait another 4 years and I'll be 55 by then. Seems like a good number to cave in and get an e-bike.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Gutch said:


> Please send me a link, I’ve been looking for that washer fluid tank. Really? You sound like the most ignorant individual with two pedals. The reality is the majority of emtbrs are actually very well educated and pretty well off financially.


I’m pretty dumb. You hit the nail on the head with that one. Dumb as I am, I at least have a sense of humor though.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I’m pretty dumb. You hit the nail on the head with that one. Dumb as I am, I at least have a sense of humor though.


Humor? Hardly.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> I’m pretty dumb. You hit the nail on the head with that one. Dumb as I am, I at least have a sense of humor though.


You come into an ebike forum and try and insult all ebikers intelligence? Why do you post here?


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Gutch said:


> Humor? Hardly.


Dumb and not funny… now you’re starting to hurt my feelings.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Gutch said:


> You come into an ebike forum and try and insult all ebikers intelligence? Why do you post here?


It was a joke snowflake. Calm down.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Gutch said:


> Humor? Hardly.


I agree that SSS’ characterization is generally not accurate, but it doesn’t offend me in the slightest. And I own 2 e-bikes! I think he was only kidding around but even if he wasn’t, who cares? TBH, I’m just glad he has resurfaced after an extended absence.

PS - I recently had to do a double check to make sure I wasn’t about to dump windshield washer fluid into my coolant spout in my Ram, so maybe he’s onto something!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Long term MTBR adherents have learned to roll with the punches.
That said, I can't deny that whenever anyone takes a swing at me, my natural reaction is to swing back.
Slowly learning to shrug stuff off, in my case improvement comes at a glacial pace.
=sParty


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Yeah, been hearing it since 2016. Gets old after awhile. Real cyclists don’t care or judge what you ride. Everybody is so stereotype anymore in the whole mtb scene, makes me sick to my stomach how it is today.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Gutch said:


> Yeah, been hearing it since 2016. Gets old after awhile. Real cyclists don’t care or judge what you ride. Everybody is so stereotype anymore in the whole mtb scene, makes me sick to my stomach how it is today.


It ain't just mountain bikes. I've seen arguments of the types of woodworking benches recently. People have just become asshats in the last 6 years or so.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> It ain't just mountain bikes. I've seen arguments of the types of woodworking benches recently. People have just become asshats in the last 6 years or so.


You ain’t kidding. Riders used to be really cool with each other, now it’s like a bunch of bike snobs everywhere. I’ve met friendlier roadies for crying out loud.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

I just did 11 drops in 1 ride for 6300 feet of climbing. Was on eco most of time and I'm completely knackered. Tomorrow its going to start raining for at least a week. Add in another week for the clay to dry out.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

dysfunction said:


> It ain't just mountain bikes. I've seen arguments of the types of woodworking benches recently. People have just become asshats in the last 6 years or so.


In my experience, it's only on-line, and usually only with people they have no chance of encountering in person. Nobody has ever had **** to say to me about the bike I'm riding, etc. in person. I'm sure some _think_ the things they say online, but I just don't care.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Just for fun, I looked at my Strava data from years past. 2021 was my first full year on an ebike, so it's an easy comparison.

2021 saw:
559 more miles
33 more hours
47,000 more feet climbed

Was it "more exercise"? I think so. I'm also at my lowest weight in years, and about 5 pounds less than last year.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

_CJ said:


> Just for fun, I looked at my Strava data from years past. 2021 was my first full year on an ebike, so it's an easy comparison.
> 
> 2021 saw:
> 559 more miles
> ...



This is like saying taking the elevator up three flights burns more calories than walking up two flights. 

Unless you have power data, the comparison is absurd.

I’d bet you produced fewer watts and burned fewer kJ this year than last.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

_CJ said:


> Just for fun, I looked at my Strava data from years past. 2021 was my first full year on an ebike, so it's an easy comparison.
> 
> 2021 saw:
> 559 more miles
> ...


Well, facts don't matter.

If you ride an e-bike, you're lazy and dumb.











and don't mess with Le Duke...he's like a pro xc fast bro or something.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I agree that SSS’ characterization is generally not accurate, but it doesn’t offend me in the slightest. And I own 2 e-bikes! I think he was only kidding around but even if he wasn’t, who cares? TBH, I’m just glad he has resurfaced after an extended absence.
> 
> PS - I recently had to do a double check to make sure I wasn’t about to dump windshield washer fluid into my coolant spout in my Ram, so maybe he’s onto something!


It wasn’t even a joke about intelligence, it was a joke about the fact that most guys I see on ebikes look like the kind of people who probably take their bike to the shop to have be chain lubed. Rightfully so, they’re expensive as hell.

Anyways, bad joke… I get it. I have no problems with ebikes and there’s definitely no snobbery on this end.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

_CJ said:


> Just for fun, I looked at my Strava data from years past. 2021 was my first full year on an ebike, so it's an easy comparison.
> 
> 2021 saw:
> 559 more miles
> ...


Hey, you could have spent that 33 hrs sitting on the couch binge watching Yellowstone!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Le Duke said:


> *This is like saying taking the elevator up three flights burns more calories than walking up two flights.*
> 
> _*Unless you have power data, the comparison is absurd.*_
> 
> *I’d bet you produced fewer watts and burned fewer kJ this year than last.*


I'm quoting this, increasing the font size, bolding & italicizing it because it's worth reading again with even more feeling.
Trust me -- I have an ebike.
When riding my ebike on cold days I have to dress like I'm going for a casual walk around the neighborhood just to stay warm, regardless how much elevation I gain.
Don't get me wrong, I love my ebike.
But to imply that there's any comparison to the exercise one get while riding an actual bicycle... absurd.
Unless you turn the motor off or run the ebike in the lowest power setting.
For those who don't own an ebike, I'll tell you this -- doing the latter is not nearly as fun as riding a mountain bike.
Because the ebike will still weight 15-20# more than a mountain bike and this weight manifests itself in poorer handling whether one is climbing, descending or JRA.
Got an ebike? Turn the power on -- enjoy it for what it is. A motorized thing. A fun, motorized thing.
But don't even think absurd thoughts like you might be getting the same workout as you would on a genuine bicycle.
By spewing such drivel, you're making more ebike enemies than you are friends.
An ebike is an ebike -- accept it for what it is and stop trying to fool anyone into thinking it's actually a mountain bike. Mountain bikes don't have motors.
=sParty


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> I'm quoting this, increasing the font size, bolding & italicizing it because it's worth reading again with even more feeling.
> Trust me -- I have an ebike.
> When riding my ebike on cold days I have to dress like I'm going for a casual walk around the neighborhood just to stay warm, regardless how much elevation I gain.
> Don't get me wrong, I love my ebike.
> ...


Agreed, but I think it depends on how serious a rider you are. And how fit you are to begin with. What your base level of fitness is.

Here is how I recently described e-fat biking FOR ME:

“It’s fun. It’s a great way for me and my daughter to stretch the season, and spend time together.

But it ain’t biking! At least not as I know it. There is no adrenaline charged high fiving going on after sustained climbs. It’s more like sight seeing. Like a laid back winter ride through the country in a horse drawn carriage. Or a sleigh ride.

Still good, but a little boring at times. Definitely different. Both my daughter and I like the pain. We like the challenge of unassisted biking. We like the endorphins rushing through us.

We can’t rely on e-fat biking to maintain our fitness through winter. I picked up a Wahoo KICKR bike last February and it’s been a Godsend.”

Bear in mind that we are riding mostly Fernie blues and blacks. The occasional double black too.

We occasionally turn the motors off entirely, and mostly ride in ECO mode when the motors are on, but 100% with you. If I am going to ride with the motors off, I should pick up a couple of non-e fatties.

I like the e-fatties in the winter. In fact, I plan to be on them for 35 days straight in Feb and March! Super stoked! But the issue here is fitness and conditioning. It’s better than nothing, that’s for sure. But I would be entering spring screwed, if I did nothing else all winter.


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## 1813254617.th (Dec 6, 2021)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> It wasn’t even a joke about intelligence, it was a joke about the fact that most guys I see on ebikes look like the kind of people who probably take their bike to the shop to have be chain lubed. Rightfully so, they’re expensive as hell.
> 
> 
> 
> Anyways, bad joke… I get it. I have no problems with ebikes and there’s definitely no snobbery on this end.


Well, all the e-bikes (and I've seen plenty) I've seen in streets of Toronto have their forks completely out of air. Don't even get me started on all the cross chaining I've witnessed. I see where you're coming from.

Do not over estimate the average proficiency of the masses. This is an MTB forum, we are not representative of the average bike user. Most of the people I know don't even know what a suspension fork is. If you are not somewhat in the rabbit hole, you can know literally nothing about a subject.

One of my friends cannot operate my top loader washing machine, and had trouble distinguishing between my dryer and my washing machine. I not at all still salty about the incident. I AM NOT SALTY AT ALL! JESUS CHRIST, KEVIN!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I don't recall saying that my eMTB was my only bike. Interesting that people would assume that. All told, I ended up riding analog/digital about 50/50, so yes, I rode the analog bike less, but I also spent 33 hours more time pedaling. Any suggestion that those 33 hours were no different than sitting in front of the computer arguing with people on MTBR is just ignorance on display. Numerous studies have shown ebikes to be far more of a workout than people assume.....up to 90% as much work as a standard bike.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

_CJ said:


> I don't recall saying that my eMTB was my only bike. Interesting that people would assume that. All told, I ended up riding analog/digital about 50/50, so yes, I rode the analog bike less, but I also spent 33 hours more time pedaling. Any suggestion that those 33 hours were no different than sitting in front of the computer arguing with people on MTBR is just ignorance on display. Numerous studies have shown ebikes to be far more of a workout than people assume.....up to 90% as much work as a standard bike.


Not sure about 90%, but I agree with this too. I think a bunch of us might all be saying the same thing, more or less. At minimum, I think we may be closer in our positions, than what may appear to be the case.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

You will get exactly what you put into a ride. You can max attack on both ebikes and regular bikes. If you ride the same amount of time at the same heartrate you will get a similar cardio benefit. The ebike will work your upper body more and legs less.

Depending on terrain I can slow roll both bikes too. I tend to get in quick rides with the ebike when I don't have the time for a regular ride. Better than no ride.

Some days I'm lazy or it's the 5th day in a row and my legs are thrashed so I just turbo everything for 1.5 hours and back home with 4000 feet.

The work out is different, but not drastically and self shuttling is so much fun.

FYI, the majority of Ebikers around here are die hard mountain bikes, builders and have been for decades. Now the town over is full of lazy noobs with tubes in there tires and no air in their forks.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

alexbn921 said:


> FYI, the majority of Ebikers around here are die hard mountain bikers, builders and have been for decades. Now the town over is full of lazy noobs with tubes in there tires and no air in their forks.


Hey now, I resemble that remark, but because I'm old. Coil and oil is making a comeback!


.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Le Duke said:


> This is like saying taking the elevator up three flights burns more calories than walking up two flights.


But it gets me on the elevator more often.


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## Arm&Hammer (Dec 19, 2020)

Crankout said:


> But it gets me on the elevator more often.


And you can do more lifts in the same time!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Crankout said:


> But it gets me on the elevator more often.


Put some dumbbells in the elevator and you'll get even more exercise every time it takes you up! 😜
=sParty


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

Duration is more important than the intensity of exercise in terms of fitness gains so a person riding 30% more on the e-bike is going to get more benefit. But this is a broad generalization and cannot take into account differences in physiology and the aspect of the added weight of e-bikes with their motor and battery pack. An e-bike can weigh from 10 lbs to 50 lbs more than a regular bike and so some of the power of the motor is used to manage that weight.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Calsun said:


> Duration is more important than the intensity of exercise in terms of fitness gains so a person riding 30% more on the e-bike is going to get more benefit. But this is a broad generalization and cannot take into account differences in physiology and the aspect of the added weight of e-bikes with their motor and battery pack. An e-bike can weigh from 10 lbs to 50 lbs more than a regular bike and so some of the power of the motor is used to manage that weight.


If I produce 300w for an hour and a half, and you do 150w for two hours, you really think that’s a more “beneficial” ride? Really?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> If I produce 300w for an hour and a half, and you do 150w for two hours, you really think that’s a more “beneficial” ride? Really?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk





That depends. Even assuming your ftp's are the same a longer z-2 ride can often be more beneficial than a shorter high intensity ride. The way I understand it both types of rides are important and they need to be properly balanced.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Calsun said:


> Duration is more important than the intensity of exercise in terms of fitness gains so a person riding 30% more on the e-bike is going to get more benefit. But this is a broad generalization and cannot take into account differences in physiology and the aspect of the added weight of e-bikes with their motor and battery pack. An e-bike can weigh from 10 lbs to 50 lbs more than a regular bike and so some of the power of the motor is used to manage that weight.


Duration is only more important than intensity if you're building base fitness.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Calsun said:


> *Duration is more important than the intensity of exercise in terms of fitness gains* so a person riding 30% more on the e-bike is going to get more benefit. But this is a broad generalization and cannot take into account differences in physiology and the aspect of the added weight of e-bikes with their motor and battery pack. An e-bike can weigh from 10 lbs to 50 lbs more than a regular bike and so some of the power of the motor is used to manage that weight.


Not really. I mean, duration is important as part of the overall riding experience but I'd suggest that the more significant gains are earned with intensity.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

Crankout said:


> Not really. I mean, duration is important as part of the overall riding experience but I'd suggest that the more significant gains are earned with intensity.


Absolutely. I rode my e-bike all over the mountains every day this past summer and while it was great for managing effort and not getting destroyed, my upper end "real" fitness was abysmally bad when I got back home. Usually when I get home I am strong as hell (for me) even riding fewer hours while in the mountains.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

BmanInTheD said:


> Absolutely. I rode my e-bike all over the mountains every day this past summer and while it was great for managing effort and not getting destroyed, my upper end "real" fitness was abysmally bad when I got back home. Usually when I get home I am strong as hell (for me) even riding fewer hours while in the mountains.


So, your anaerobic fitness declined, or wasn't great. That would be expected with an ebike keeping you out of the red zone as they tend to. Overall fitness though was probably improved.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

_CJ said:


> So, your anaerobic fitness declined, or wasn't great. That would be expected with an ebike keeping you out of the red zone as they tend to. Overall fitness though was probably improved.


So overall fitness is an improved ability to ride slowly for a longer period of time?


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

_CJ said:


> So, your anaerobic fitness declined, or wasn't great. That would be expected with an ebike keeping you out of the red zone as they tend to. Overall fitness though was probably improved.


Yeah, no. I can ride Zone 2 all day. You don't ride Zone 2 all off-season to improve your fitness, but to prepare you for harder efforts. I don't ride an e-bike to improve my fitness, rather to let me enjoy my fitness and trails without getting too fatigued.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BmanInTheD said:


> Yeah, no. I can ride Zone 2 all day. You don't ride Zone 2 all off-season to improve your fitness, but to prepare you for harder efforts. I don't ride an e-bike to improve my fitness, rather to let me enjoy my fitness and trails without getting too fatigued.


Likewise.
I typically ride my ebike for four types of riding:

recovery days
exploratory missions
sessioning winch & plummet trail systems
pulling my BOB trailer full of trailwork tools
Usually when I want to ride a bike for exercise, I ride one of my mountain bikes.
With a mountain bike, I get better exercise going up hill plus have more fun (cuz lighter) when going downhill.
=sParty


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

If I ride an e-bike, it's for fun and not fitness. My body is shot to hell from military service. I currently exercise on a Peloton and Fight Camp which kills my body after doing it 3 days (stacked). I think i have a fetish for pain. Anyways, an e-bike would be a great and fun way for recovery from my shenanigans. I would not ride an e-bike as part of my fitness goals. E-bikes should be ridden because they are fun! That's my personal opinion!

Fight Camp has been a great experience because I am learning how to box while getting a great workout. I plan to box some bears in case they fight me on the trails. Peloton has been an awesome experience because I don't have to worry about getting hit by cars in the street


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

To get back to the point of the original article. I think you guys are splitting hairs. Please refer to the definition of "exercise" below. There is no level of intensity required to meet the definition. The article is accurate. "More exercise", means that e-bikers spend more time engaged in an activity that requires physical effort than traditional cyclists. Or, to put it another way, traditional cyclists spend more time lazing about than e-bikers. 😁 

Exercise: 
1. an activity requiring physical effort


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I was out yesterday for a long winter ride on my e-fattie. It was awesome and although the trails were groomed, the snow was loose. These are some of the same trails I ride in the summer on dirt. There are steep-ish climbs and downs. Long story short - I rode all day in ECO mode (the least amount of power assist) and got a decent workout. Switching to Trail or Boost would have made things easier but it is more fun for me feeling at least a little like I am getting a bit of a workout. And having somewhat of a challenge, both skills-wise and conditioning-wise. I got a reasonable amount of both yesterday. It was a challenge cleaning sections in the snow, and climbing in ECO was no joke. Not in the conditions yesterday.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

_CJ said:


> To get back to the point of the original article. I think you guys are splitting hairs. Please refer to the definition of "exercise" below. There is no level of intensity required to meet the definition. The article is accurate. "More exercise", means that e-bikers spend more time engaged in an activity that requires physical effort than traditional cyclists. Or, to put it another way, traditional cyclists spend more time lazing about than e-bikers. 😁
> 
> Exercise:
> 1. an activity requiring physical effort


Well, ok. So someone who walks a three mile trail gets more exercise than someone who runs it since it takes them longer. And on an ebike, the guy on a higher assist level gets more exercise than someone on eco because they don't use as much energy and can ride for longer. Eco guy is lazy compared to turbo guy.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

chazpat said:


> Well, ok. So someone who walks a three mile trail gets more exercise than someone who runs it since it takes them longer. And on an ebike, the guy on a higher assist level gets more exercise than someone on eco because they don't use as much energy and can ride for longer. Eco guy is lazy compared to turbo guy.


Chaz, you got this!
You should go into marketing.
=sParty


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

_CJ said:


> To get back to the point of the original article. I think you guys are splitting hairs. Please refer to the definition of "exercise" below. There is no level of intensity required to meet the definition. The article is accurate. "More exercise", means that e-bikers spend more time engaged in an activity that requires physical effort than traditional cyclists. Or, to put it another way, traditional cyclists spend more time lazing about than e-bikers. 😁
> 
> Exercise:
> 1. an activity requiring physical effort


Um....not quite.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

A person on an ebike can have a little assist or a lot of assist or no assist at all pedaling or not pedal at using only throttle. Probably best to reduce the barriers and get people active and get people outside and off their computers, ipads, cell phones and tv's just staring at the screen. Last 3 years ebikes have increased dramatically, I started seeing an increase 4 years ago but covid fast tracked that in the last 2 years. I was originally car-less, not a "one less car" kind of guy but it was real expensive for me so I rode every single day for everything, I put up with taking transit buses and trains but it just took to long to get places. Now I take the train then ride where I want to go instead of waiting around for 2 buses. One bus to get me from home to the train, then wait for the train, get on train, go to destination train station then wait for the god damn bus again. Buy whatever it is I wanted to buy, then wait for the bus and it repeats itself. Last 2 years I just stay close to home, take the train every now and then but ride. Saves battery power to use going further, exploring more.

Ebiking makes bicycling more enjoyable which the rider will end up riding more. They choose the level of excersize they want, they dont have to be scared off by being forced and always having to use their own power to get up any hill in their path, plus the ebikers make it further and the process repeats itself. Fun times, lead acid battery ebike days were horrible. Glad I caught the tail end of those days.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

My father in law definitely get more exercise on his town E bike. He wouldn't be riding otherwise.

I personally get about the same exercise on my Ebike as I have always ridden until my legs fall off. Doesn't matter what kind of bike. My arms and back have gotten a lot stronger with the ebike from all the extra effort required to move it around and the massive increase in down hill time.


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## Noplacelikeloam (Mar 2, 2021)

_CJ said:


> To get back to the point of the original article. I think you guys are splitting hairs. Please refer to the definition of "exercise" below. There is no level of intensity required to meet the definition. The article is accurate. "More exercise", means that e-bikers spend more time engaged in an activity that requires physical effort than traditional cyclists. Or, to put it another way, traditional cyclists spend more time lazing about than e-bikers. 😁
> 
> Exercise:
> 1. an activity requiring physical effort


Right, and a medical form of exercise for morbidly obese individuals is clapping. Yes, clapping. So before we get hung up on what exercise means, lets reframe it around the typical MTBR reader, who, more than likely wont get any useful benefit from clapping for 10 minutes. Likewise, bumbling around on your (my) ebike for 2 hours at an avg zone 2 HR will only benefit your baseline fitness and burn fat many times slower than a more intense exercise (total effect, not just during the activity itself). So yeah is it exercise? Yes. Is it optimal, NO.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Noplacelikeloam said:


> Likewise, bumbling around on your (my) ebike for 2 hours at an avg zone 2 HR will only benefit your baseline fitness and burn fat many times slower than a more intense exercise (total effect, not just during the activity itself)


Yes, the old 'garbage miles' problem - thinking that you are training when you are only having fun riding your bike lol


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Jack7782 said:


> having fun riding your bike


and we can't have that, now can we.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Le Duke said:


> This is like saying taking the elevator up three flights burns more calories than walking up two flights.
> 
> Unless you have power data, the comparison is absurd.
> 
> ...


I disagree. For me, just getting incentivized to go out another 33 hours would be a huge additional bonus for me physically and mentally. So, from his stats, 33 more hours is the key point. I don't follow closely but I believe that studies are showing that, for casual type people in their 40's/50's, that time exercising is more important than strain level. (Maybe not just casual people but also moderate riders.) That is, more time out and exercising is more useful than fewer, but harder workouts. Obviously to take it to the next level you have to throw in some max-effort workouts but for casual people it's just better to put in more time and enjoy it enough to want to put in more time.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Okay, I posted my above reply from page 4 and now read pages 5 and 6.

I see that the arguers are not grasping the correct point. Not everyone is a driven fitness die-hard. The question is not "300 kW for 1 hour vs 150 kW for 2 hours". The point is, for normal people who are maybe a little overweight, older, have currently bad weather... will having something that is more fun get them outside more often than the much more strenuous bike? Getting out on an e-bike is better than deciding "aw F it, I'm not feeling energetic enough for a mtb ride today" and sitting around drinking beer instead. Some of you made comments and I can't believe you're so blind not to see that. For me, we have a crusty 3" of snow on the ground here that sucks to try to ride through. It's a beautiful sunny day here at 32 degrees but I'm not going out in that snow. So instead I'm here at the computer and I made my first rum & coke at 3:15pm. Maybe if I had an ebike I would've gone out. And speed is fun, so once out, I'm sure I would've got more exercise than I thought I wanted today. The main point of ebikes is that it helps get people out more often or for longer rides than they otherwise would.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Just did a 45 mile road ride in the mountains at 38 degrees and just poured a Captain and Ginger! Cheers🍺


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Did a 20 mile E-MTB ride today in the dirt and snow. Rode into the clouds. It was fun.

Having a coke and some buffalo style wings with blue cheese (East Coast Style) because ranch with wings is just wrong!


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

mlx john said:


> Did a 20 mile E-MTB ride today in the dirt and snow. Rode into the clouds. It was fun.
> 
> Having a coke and some buffalo style wings with blue cheese (East Coast Style) because ranch with wings is just wrong!


Love me some hot wings with bleu cheese!


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

I left the house today at 1pm and rode 50 miles today, knowing its a sunny day after a blitz of cold weather and knowing the pathways will be full of people I decided to get an early start, before people got home to walk their dogs. I chose the route out of the big city on purpose to avoid the crowds. It was very pleasant running into another cyclist halfway then the dog owners near the little lake city but luckily they were on the other side of the irrigation canal. I charged the ebike up at 3pm after riding around the lake then went back home. I wish I had a higher power charger to dump in more wh into the battery, honestly I would absolutely love 48v 30a charger with a battery that could take it, rather then a measly 48v 8a with the Grintech Satiator charger, and some laptop chargers for the 36v battery that only charges to 40.25v instead of 42v which is good in my books, battery lasts much longer. By the time I was heading back it was full rush hour in the small city, but its a much nicer crowd there, many people would stop for me whereas in the big city they wouldnt.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Wheelspeed said:


> My test ride on an e-bike DID give me more exercise, just like the article said.
> 
> I was test-riding traditional 29ers on a ~4 mile mtb trail loop. It was spring, I was out of shape, so I test rode two bikes and felt too tired to test a 3rd one through the 4-mile loop. But then I saw they had a Specialized e-bike so figured I'd try that and had planned to just let it do the work since I was tired. I ended up liking it so much that I pedalled harder than I planned to on the flats and uphills. Mild uphills that were just a grind on the non-assist bikes were actually fun on the e-bike and I pedalled harder or at least just as hard as on the previous two non-assist bikes. I got back from that loop and was thoroughly beat by then but now I know that I'll one day have an e-bike. I just bought a bike in 2019 so I'll try to wait another 4 years and I'll be 55 by then. Seems like a good number to cave in and get an e-bike.


Your experience will fall on deaf ears (or eyes) on mtbr.com. Most folks here think people who ride emtbs just put it in an easy gear and lightly touch the pedals as they blaze through the trails at 40 mph. 

Like you, I get a pretty good workout on my ebike. I pedal as hard as I can most of the time on my ebike, just like I do on my regular bike. Actually, I sometimes take it easy on my regular bike so I don't blow up. The end result is faster average speed on the ebike, more miles for my time riding, which equates to hitting the fun stuff more often on a ride. Like you, I think higher speeds on the flats and mild grades make the ride SO much more fun.

The folks here saying they can't get out of HR Zone 2 on their emtb are doing it wrong. I normally blow through zones 1, 2, and 3 in about the first 5 minutes of an emtb ride, and spend most of my ride in zones 4 and 5. Pick up the pace if you can't get out of zone 2 on your emtb.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

I've spent years riding MTB & before that MXing.

I can ride a MTB for 2-4 hours pretty much at my max output.
However on an MX bike I could put in a 30 minute moto pacing myself, and that was a really long stint for an amateur. If I truly sprinted I was gassed in 10-15 minutes. And do that 3-4x on an entire day.

I could see how E-MTBing could potentially be more tiring than MTBing.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

_CJ said:


> Interesting....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


lol no


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## Dan G (May 4, 2021)

Noplacelikeloam said:


> "The study’s authors even go as far as to say the results should potentially be used to lobby for increased e-bike usage and improved e-biking infrastructure."
> 
> Ok, so now we know the purpose of the study.
> 
> ...


It is amazing how "studies" usually produce results favorable to the sponsors of the studies.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Suns_PSD said:


> I've spent years riding MTB & before that MXing.
> 
> I can ride a MTB for 2-4 hours pretty much at my max output.
> However on an MX bike I could put in a 30 minute moto pacing myself, and that was a really long stint for an amateur. If I truly sprinted I was gassed in 10-15 minutes. And do that 3-4x on an entire day.
> ...


Same here. Raced MX from a very young age until I was 28. MX is way more intense than any mtb ride I've ever been on, and I only raced on a local level where moto's were basically just a +/- 10 minute sprint. There's a reason why my highest heart rates when riding mountain bikes happen at the self shuttle downhill bike parks, where I'm riding an emtb and the downhill runs only last about five minutes at the most.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> I've spent years riding MTB & before that MXing.
> 
> I can ride a MTB for 2-4 hours pretty much at my max output.
> However on an MX bike I could put in a 30 minute moto pacing myself, and that was a really long stint for an amateur. If I truly sprinted I was gassed in 10-15 minutes. And do that 3-4x on an entire day.



I think I get what you mean but to be clear a 30 minute max effort is a lot different than a 2-4 hour max effort. A true sprint is about 20 seconds max.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Dan G said:


> It is amazing how "studies" usually produce results favorable to the sponsors of the studies.


LOL


J.B. Weld said:


> I think I get what you mean but to be clear a 30 minute max effort is a lot different than a 2-4 hour max effort. A true sprint is about 20 seconds max.


20sec is nice


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## Noplacelikeloam (Mar 2, 2021)

Dan G said:


> It is amazing how "studies" usually produce results favorable to the sponsors of the studies.


Dont get me started.

Chinese food and MSG. Paid for study. Misinterpreted.
Seven Countries Study. What we base most of our common knowledge of nutrition on. Paid for study. Misinterpreted.
Vitamins and their use in cold prevention. Paid for study. Misinterpreted.
Wikkipedia as a source of truth. Paid for study.

Way too many people stopped their research at a graduate level and just accept what they were told or read as long as it has some sort of academic reference. We are sheep.


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## Noplacelikeloam (Mar 2, 2021)

MX9799 said:


> Your experience will fall on deaf ears (or eyes) on mtbr.com. Most folks here think people who ride emtbs just put it in an easy gear and lightly touch the pedals as they blaze through the trails at 40 mph.
> 
> Like you, I get a pretty good workout on my ebike. I pedal as hard as I can most of the time on my ebike, just like I do on my regular bike. Actually, I sometimes take it easy on my regular bike so I don't blow up. The end result is faster average speed on the ebike, more miles for my time riding, which equates to hitting the fun stuff more often on a ride. Like you, I think higher speeds on the flats and mild grades make the ride SO much more fun.
> 
> The folks here saying they can't get out of HR Zone 2 on their emtb are doing it wrong. I normally blow through zones 1, 2, and 3 in about the first 5 minutes of an emtb ride, and spend most of my ride in zones 4 and 5. Pick up the pace if you can't get out of zone 2 on your emtb.


But how? To get out of Zone 3 is nearly impossible because you will hit the speed limit (typical sustained 1000' climb at 7% grade) and just end up pedaling an unassisted 55lb bike. Hardly fun, but yeah I guess that will get you there. I guess.


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Noplacelikeloam said:


> But how? To get out of Zone 3 is nearly impossible because you will hit the speed limit (typical sustained 1000' climb at 7% grade) and just end up pedaling an unassisted 55lb bike. Hardly fun, but yeah I guess that will get you there. I guess.


1.My polar H10 shows me easily getting out of zone 3 on every emtb ride I’ve ever been on. If it’s nearly impossible to get out of zone 3 on an emtb ride, I’ve been doing the impossible on nearly every emtb ride for two years now.

2. Your heart starts beating faster when you start pedaling hard. I start ripping and the heart rate goes up to zone 4 pretty quickly.

3. Your speedometer is way off if you’re maintaining 20mph (speed cutoff) on a 1000’ sustained climb in the woods on a regular mtb.


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## Noplacelikeloam (Mar 2, 2021)

MX9799 said:


> 1.My polar H10 shows me easily getting out of zone 3 on every emtb ride I’ve ever been on. If it’s nearly impossible to get out of zone 3 on an emtb ride, I’ve been doing the impossible on nearly every emtb ride for two years now.
> 
> 2. Your heart starts beating faster when you start pedaling hard. I start ripping and the heart rate goes up to zone 4 pretty quickly.
> 
> 3. Your speedometer is way off if you’re maintaining 20mph (speed cutoff) on a 1000’ sustained climb in the woods on a regular mtb.


Never said I was maintaining 20mph (speed cutoff) on a 1000’ sustained climb in the woods on a regular mtb. Shimano cuts your assistance at about 17.5mph from what I can tell. And that is real easy to get to on a 7% grade. Then you are just pushing around a pig of a bike. On the down, I agree, you can max HR but you can do that on any bike. Anyway, not looking to debate or argue, but the difference is interesting. What motor are you running and what bike?


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## MX9799 (Feb 11, 2018)

Noplacelikeloam said:


> Never said I was maintaining 20mph (speed cutoff) on a 1000’ sustained climb in the woods on a regular mtb. Shimano cuts your assistance at about 17.5mph from what I can tell. And that is real easy to get to on a 7% grade. Then you are just pushing around a pig of a bike. On the down, I agree, you can max HR but you can do that on any bike. Anyway, not looking to debate or argue, but the difference is interesting. What motor are you running and what bike?


I’m riding the first gen giant reign E+. It’s got the Yamaha motor.
My private trails are on pretty flat ground. Not a lot of elevation on my private property. I’m almost always in zone 4 and 5 on my rides here. You don’t need to be going downhill to get your HR up on an emtb. I’ve also never hit 17.5 mph on a climb of any kind, unless my gps speed reading is WAY off.
If this thread is still going after my next emtb ride, I’ll post pictures of my ride stats. Suspension is off for the time being, and the trails are pretty wet (I don’t like riding in mud anyways). My last emtb ride was just after Christmas, and I deleted all the info on my polar app for my 2021 rides at the start of the year. Haven’t been able to ride yet this year due to snow and ice.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

_CJ said:


> *Ebike riders get more exercise than cyclists?*


In theory, sure. Just like the one thread in which an activist sets out to prove that the eMTB is twice as fast as a meat bike. I mean, it is potentially 50+ pounds of dead weight. But practically? Maybe occasionally, or under the helm of a motivated madman.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

_CJ said:


> Interesting....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


they get exercise when putting bike in and out of car 😁


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## itsky (Jul 26, 2011)

Riding an elevator is healthier than taking the stairs


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