# ZTTO 11 speed 11-50



## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Has anyone seen these? The cost compares with Sunrace, but the weight compares with Garbaruk. 11 speed 11-50, 350 grams and only 150$.

Largest 3 cogs are CNC all on piece with a carriers. Smaller 8 are all steel and also on carriers.

Anyone tried one yet?

https://www.amazon.com/Speed-Ratio-...50&sr=1-1-spons&keywords=11-50+cassette&psc=1


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

I ordered one, I'll report back after I get it.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Thanks for taking the plunge for us Dave! Haha


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I think the Garbaruk is all one piece, and 299gr. But for the price who cares about 50gr. The Sunrace I have is like 550gr.


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## Jan (Mar 8, 2004)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Largest 3 cogs are CNC all on piece with a carriers.


Largest 4.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Thanks for taking the plunge for us Dave! Haha


No prob, it looks like I'll be the guinea pig.  I'll be using a sram 11 speed shifter and a Eagle GX derailleur.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Two sellers on EBay told me the entire cassette was aluminum. 

> So we decide to only use aluminum alloy to make larger cogs. 

This line on Amazon claims otherwise. If the bottom 7 are actually steel, then it's a hell of a bargain and an outlier on my cassette sheet (goo.gl/CEVL6f). Note also: the same cassette is sold under at least two additional brand names. It's $130 on Ali Express.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Here's one for $126, https://www.aliexpress.com/item/11-...tml?spm=2114.10010108.1000023.9.d29f8fauX5oS0

Interested in this...


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

alexdi said:


> Two sellers on EBay told me the entire cassette was aluminum.
> 
> > So we decide to only use aluminum alloy to make larger cogs.
> 
> This line on Amazon claims otherwise. If the bottom 7 are actually steel, then it's a hell of a bargain and an outlier on my cassette sheet (goo.gl/CEVL6f). Note also: the same cassette is sold under at least two additional brand names. It's $130 on Ali Express.


If it's all steel it's worth 50gr over the Garbaruk, the 50t is aluminum. SI please tell.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Hot damn, if I didn't have so many spares right now I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Jan said:


> Largest 4.


Good catch.



alexdi said:


> Two sellers on EBay told me the entire cassette was aluminum.
> 
> > So we decide to only use aluminum alloy to make larger cogs.
> 
> This line on Amazon claims otherwise. If the bottom 7 are actually steel, then it's a hell of a bargain and an outlier on my cassette sheet (goo.gl/CEVL6f). Note also: the same cassette is sold under at least two additional brand names. It's $130 on Ali Express.


The images on Amazon seem to indicate the smaller 7 are steel. They're clearly riveted to the carrier. So I would believe they're steel and riveted to the aluminum carrier.

40$ more than Sunrace but 200 grams lighter. 100$ less than Garbaruk but 50 grams heavier.

Assuming it doesn't shift like total crap, it's a no brainer. Can't wait for Dave's review!!!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Subscribed because I wanna know how this thing holds up. The lack of support for the bigger cogs seems suspect to me.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

mikesee said:


> Subscribed because I wanna know how this thing holds up. The lack of support for the bigger cogs seems suspect to me.


Lack of support? It's one solid CNC piece. Each cog supports the next. Looks fairly substantial to me.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Lack of support? It's one solid CNC piece. Each cog supports the next. Looks fairly substantial to me.


I agree, more than rivited to a spider. My Sunrace is getting worn. So I went ahead and ordered om.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Lack of support? It's one solid CNC piece. Each cog supports the next. Looks fairly substantial to me.


Sure. But I've seen cassettes with yet more support than that fail in the unsupported spans between teeth. It happens.


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## Loch (Apr 29, 2011)

I think the problem is going to be premature wear on the smaller aluminum cogs. The lower cost might not be worth it if those cogs wear out too quick.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Loch said:


> I think the problem is going to be premature wear on the smaller aluminum cogs. The lower cost might not be worth it if those cogs wear out too quick.


It's about $100 under anything comparable on a Shimano hub. Same alloy Hope uses on the big cogs.

Bang for buck <$300 and <400g for 11-speed, this is what tops my list:

XD:

$270 - Garbaruk 10-50 323g 1xAl 
$250 - E13 TRS+ 9-46 339g 3xAl 
$250 - SRAM 10-42 265g 1xAl

Shimano:

$130 - ZTTO 11-50 363g 4xAl
$230 - Garbaruk 11-50 310g 1xAl

Hope:

$240 - Hope 10-48 296g 4xAl
$170 - Hope 10-44 278g 4xAl

That's pretty much it. Everything else has less range at the same price with minimal weight advantage or costs a lot more.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I've got 750 miles on my Sunrace, if this last close to that. It's worth it. I was going to switch to the Garbaruk, still will if I don't like this cassette.


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## Loch (Apr 29, 2011)

alexdi said:


> It's about $100 under anything comparable on a Shimano hub. Same alloy Hope uses on the big cogs.
> 
> Bang for buck <$300 and <400g for 11-speed, this is what tops my list:
> Shimano:
> ...


IF (big IF) the Garbaruk gives you 2X the miles, it would be a better value than the ZTTO (and less weight). If ZTTO will offer low cost replacement cogs, than that could be a game changer.

Also hate the idea of trashing a whole cassette because that 1 smallest alloy cog is worn.

I do know that I get WAY more miles out of the expensive SRAM cassettes (if they don't bend ). Is it enough to justify the extra cost??? Don't know.:???:

I have a brand new e.13 9-44 that is now outdated because I haven't killed my SRAM XO cassette yet.

Definitely interested in peoples experience with these cassettes.


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## Loch (Apr 29, 2011)

Oh, and ZTTO or somebody. Please make a lightweight 11 speed, 11-34, 36, 40 cassette for my 1x road/gravel bike! 

Nothing available???


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

I received the Eagle derailleur and installed it with the X1 11-speed shifter that I had. Since I haven't got the 11-50 cassette yet I just checked everything out with my 11-42 11-speed cassette. The results, it works perfectly. The shifting is nice and crisp (on the stand) with the 11 speed shifter and eagle derailleur. I'm not going to bother riding it until I get the 11-50 cassette. Anyway, good news so far.


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

davesupra said:


> View attachment 1173823
> 
> 
> I received the Eagle derailleur and installed it with the X1 11-speed shifter that I had. Since I haven't got the 11-50 cassette yet I just checked everything out with my 11-42 11-speed cassette. The results, it works perfectly. The shifting is nice and crisp (on the stand) with the 11 speed shifter and eagle derailleur. I'm not going to bother riding it until I get the 11-50 cassette. Anyway, good news so far.


Interesting, would love to hear how it works out!


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

I got the cassette in the mail today, there was absolutely zero packaging in the box, but the cassette fit tight enough in the box that it didn't rattle around and get beat up. The machine work looks very nice, in fact the whole thing looks very nice. It weighed 330 grams on my scale with the zip ties that held it together. I'll install it tomorrow and see how it works.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Ok, I had no patience and started working on it tonight.  I took the old 11-42 off and cleaned things up a bit, and then slid the big billet alum cluster on. As you can see, they use a plastic spacer between the big alum cluster and the next cluster that is on a carrier. Not sure what to think about a plastic spacer.









Then I slid on the carrier cluster which had 3 gears on it, and then slid on one of the individual steel gears, and again another plastic spacer.









Here it is all assembled. The nut is aluminum and the locking teeth started wearing off as I was tightening it. You can see the alum dust. I had a small shim behind the 11-42 that I took off, so that the chain didn't come off when I backpedaled. I wasn't able to use the shim with this cassette.









Here is is on the bike, I think the chain is too short.  I'll have to look around and see what angle the der is at on other peoples bikes when it's on the 50t. I could still swing the der up and get slack in the chain, but it just doesn't look right.
















Well, I'll put it on the stand tomorrow and tune it a bit and then decide if I need a new chain.


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## lovemonkey (Jan 5, 2005)

My current SRAM 1050 and Shimano XT cassettes have plastic spacers, I've never run into any issues.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

All Shimano cassettes have plastic spacers between at least 5-7 cogs.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Looks good so far Dave! Let us know how well it shifts or if it drops the chain backpedaling on the 50 or 42.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

davesupra said:


> Well, I'll put it on the stand tomorrow and tune it a bit and then decide if I need a new chain.


You need a new chain. That bike has chain growth when the suspension cycles. You'll want more margin.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Thanks guys, yeah I guess I'll put on a new chain before I ride it. I dialed in the shifting on the stand, it upshifts and downshifts nicely. It backpedals off of the 50, 44 and 38, although it does take a crank rotation or so before it does (see video). I was able to install a thin shim behind the cassette, but it didn't seem to help much. I'm thinking that this might improve after the machining smooths out on the billet gears from wear, and it doesn't grab the chain quite as much. Not sure. Now I have to dig and see if I have a new chain somewhere.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

davesupra said:


> It backpedals off of the 50, 44 and 38, although it does take a crank rotation or so before it does (see video).


Thanks for the video. FYI, chain drop propensity depends on the chain.






SRAM wins this test, though the Shimano chain tested was 10-speed. Chain tension and the usual suspects (indexing, hanger alignment) also seem to be relevant. In your case, just adding a few links may fix it.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Interesting, thx for the video. Unfortunately for me, I'm already using a PC-X1 on the bike. Maybe a longer chain will help?



alexdi said:


> Thanks for the video. FYI, chain drop propensity depends on the chain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

The seller: ZTTOBIKE Store on AliExpress has them for $116 if anyone else is looking.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...548.html?spm=2114.12010612.0.0.342e60c4joUTcN


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## padrefan1982 (Mar 2, 2005)

Following thread. Interested in on hearing how it responds on the trail.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

alexdi said:


> You need a new chain. That bike has chain growth when the suspension cycles. You'll want more margin.


True but how much chain growth does one really get in low gear? Not like one would be doing drops while in 50t.

I noticed with 9-46 I had to choose between slack in highest gear vs stretched derailleur in low gear.. since I'll be at high speed in 9t I'd rather have tension there.. my logic anyway


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

seamarsh said:


> True but how much chain growth does one really get in low gear? Not like one would be doing drops while in 50t.
> 
> I noticed with 9-46 I had to choose between slack in highest gear vs stretched derailleur in low gear.. since I'll be at high speed in 9t I'd rather have tension there.. my logic anyway


But if you're doing a technical climb in the 50T and catch a good rock or root.....snap goes your chain.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> But if you're doing a technical climb in the 50T and catch a good rock or root.....snap goes your chain.


True here, I'd Undo the shock and cycle the suspension, it will be tight but you want derailleur movement. A snaped chain can get fixed. Bent derailleur or hanger isn't as easy.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Cerberus75 said:


> True here, I'd Undo the shock and cycle the suspension, it will be tight but you want derailleur movement. A snaped chain can get fixed. Bent derailleur or hanger isn't as easy.


I just decided to order a new PC-X1 chain and set it up the length the way Sram recommends.


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## kevocastro (Sep 23, 2011)

Really looking fwd of how it performs on the trail


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## mistermcdo (Dec 16, 2017)

Hope the set up goes well. I'm thinking of using this for my wife's 1x11


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## pedaler845 (Jul 18, 2004)

This 660g version is $60 on Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Speed-Casset...1-spons&keywords=sunrace+11-50+cassette&psc=1


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## kevocastro (Sep 23, 2011)

So, how is it working so far?


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

I would like to know too.
The ZTTO 11-50 looks good.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

I got the new chain last week but have been to busy to mess with it yet. Hopefully this weekend I'll get to it.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

The first review on Amazon is up and it doesn't look great. The big cogs broke. This might be for fly/lightweights.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Holy ****!
Thanks for the info.
Can't belive it.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Thats the problem with feather weight and trying to do these things. Thats why SRAM costs so much. And even they have reports of big cogs bending.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Than I think I will stick with my heavy Sunrace 11-50.
200 grams more but safer.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

On the other hand.
In the Amazone review he said that he had problems with backpedal.
I absolutely can't imagine that the cassette is the cause of this.
It sounds like a hub failure, or he used the wrong chain ( 7spd ) or the chain had a tight link.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

All he was saying in the review was if you backpeddle the chain will drop a cog. I have one of these sitting in a box. With our trails being nothing but a sloppy mess right now, probably won't be getting this on the bike till February...But I might not if this thing is too weak for my riding style.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

OneTrustMan said:


> On the other hand.
> In the Amazone review he said that he had problems with backpedal.
> I absolutely can't imagine that the cassette is the cause of this.
> It sounds like a hub failure, or he used the wrong chain ( 7spd ) or the chain had a tight link.


The backpedal issue is always there on most extended 10 speed cassettes.

His complaint on that I dont even count as valid. Known issue for years among many extended range cassettes. Nothing wrong with bike set up at all except 99% of bikes out there have a bad chainline.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Interesting. Not an auspicious start. I'd like to see a few more reviews before forming an opinion, though.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Yeah me too.
I hope Dave has more luck and a good first ride.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I have one on order, before that review came up. I was going to put it on my son's ride to get him some added range, crosses fingers. That aside, its strange that the item is unavailable now. It could be just a coincidence or not?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Mine is still in the box, not sure I'll use it for at least a monthb out our trails are a mess. I'm 200lbs. Might decide to just get the Garbaruk if this cassette isn't up for my style of riding.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Well that's definitely not a good sign. Sorry but I ended up going out of town over the weekend so my stuff is still just sitting there un-touched. :-(


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## willysurf (Sep 17, 2005)

Looks like it is back in stock on Amazon but the bad review has been deleted. Suspicious...


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## mgalvez (Oct 19, 2006)

I ordered one from Aliexpress. Ill review on it once I get it. Hopefully a goatlink should be enough to make this work. I got the Sun race 11-40 10spd when everyone was talking them down. Mine shifted real well and had no issues. The 350g may make the ZTTO 11-50 too weak.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

mgalvez said:


> I ordered one from Aliexpress. Ill review on it once I get it. Hopefully a goatlink should be enough to make this work. I got the Sun race 11-40 10spd when everyone was talking them down. Mine shifted real well and had no issues. The 350g may make the ZTTO 11-50 too weak.


But the Garbaruk is about the same weight and expensive.
Are there any similar stories about this cassette breaking?

My Sunrace 11sp 11-50 may not be this light, but it works flawless.
No back pedal issues in any gear and silent.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

OneTrustMan said:


> But the Garbaruk is about the same weight and expensive.
> Are there any similar stories about this cassette breaking?
> 
> My Sunrace 11sp 11-50 may not be this light, but it works flawless.
> No back pedal issues in any gear and silent.


The Garbaruk is made like Sram cassettes. SunRace is like the XT but i think the metal is a little softer. I'm hoping that this is a cheaper alternative and at least get the same miles as an E13.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Mine came in. I wasn't able to finish installing it but it doesn't look flimsy. The milling could have been better to prevent sharp edges, less edges equal less points of failure. It's damn light in my hands though. I need to cut the chain and finish getting it setup.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I got it on the bike, it does shift well, but drops at least 3 dogs when you backpedal.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I just got my chain length down. It drops cogs on the largest 2 cogs during backpedaling. Running xtr med cage with a goatlink. My chainline could be better though.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

thesmokingman said:


> I just got my chain length down. It drops cogs on the largest 2 cogs during backpedaling. Running xtr med cage with a goatlink. My chainline could be better though.


I'm on a XT with goat link. My chain line isn't the best with short chainstay. But sunrace didn't do this. I'll look and see if fileing the back helps later.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> I'm on a XT with goat link. My chain line isn't the best with short chainstay. But sunrace didn't do this. I'll look and see if fileing the back helps later.


That doesn't sound really good 
Hope you get it work somehow.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)




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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

thesmokingman said:


> View attachment 1181025


Your chain looks a bit too long.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Yea, I could go down another link but I wanna keep that link for now just to make sure.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

That thing looks SWEET!!!


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## wanderbum (Sep 29, 2014)

*subscribed*

Subscribed


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

OneTrustMan said:


> That doesn't sound really good
> Hope you get it work somehow.


The 11-46 sunrace cassette dropped chains, they had sharp edges on the back of the cog. Just not sure about filing aluminum


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Cerberus75 said:


> The 11-46 sunrace cassette dropped chains, they had sharp edges on the back of the cog. Just not sure about filing aluminum


Hmm looks like there is more to chain drops than just the cassette.
My 11spd 11-50 Sunrace shifts perfectly and drops nothing.
No backpedal issues in any gear.
My chain line also is not the best. I use a Prowheel 3spd crankset as a 1spd with a cheap chinese 32T chainring in the front.
I also use a Sram PC-X1 chain.


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## autosmith (Jan 16, 2012)

I’ve found the chain is the most important thing in any of these setups. SRAM chains are most resistant to backpedal and kmc shifts smoothest on sunrace for me. Worn-out chains more than .5 won’t work on most wide range cassettes I’ve run.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

OneTrustMan said:


> Hmm looks like there is more to chain drops than just the cassette.
> My 11spd 11-50 Sunrace shifts perfectly and drops nothing.
> No backpedal issues in any gear.


Sunrace's first run of 11-46 cassettes had horrible chain drop on the back pedal. They have since redesigned the teeth on the upper cogs, probably greatly in part due to the feedback from the 11-46.

My 11-50 doesn't drop either. But I can put my 11-46 on the same bike, same wheels, same chain line and it drops every time. Despite what the pundits of MTBR say, this is equally as much about tooth and ramping/retention design as it is about chain line.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Sunrace's first run of 11-46 cassettes had horrible chain drop on the back pedal. They have since redesigned the teeth on the upper cogs, probably greatly in part due to the feedback from the 11-46.
> 
> My 11-50 doesn't drop either. But I can put my 11-46 on the same bike, same wheels, same chain line and it drops every time. Despite what the pundits of MTBR say, this is equally as much about tooth and ramping/retention design as it is about chain line.


Can you post a picture of the 11-46 teeth?
I'm interested in what it looks like compared to the new sunrace cassette teeth.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I rode on the ZTTO this weekend w/o issues. Shifting is pretty crisp and smooth, nothing broke either. I'm thinking that early review was some serious user error. Plus the cassettes are prime now so if something sucks, Amazon returns ftw.

Edit, just noticed there is a coupon that you can clip giving $15 off the cassette. I'm gonna see if I can get the discount added or will do a buy/return. $135 for this cassette is pretty damn cheap.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Sunrace's first run of 11-46 cassettes had horrible chain drop on the back pedal. They have since redesigned the teeth on the upper cogs, probably greatly in part due to the feedback from the 11-46.
> 
> My 11-50 doesn't drop either. But I can put my 11-46 on the same bike, same wheels, same chain line and it drops every time. Despite what the pundits of MTBR say, this is equally as much about tooth and ramping/retention design as it is about chain line.


Correct, my 11-50 sunrace didn't drop chains. My 11-46 Did till I took a file to the back of the cog.


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## pedaler845 (Jul 18, 2004)

It's not cheap at all if it is toast in 1k miles. Cheap & light, lets see about strong!


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

pedaler845 said:


> It's not cheap at all if it is toast in 1k miles. Cheap & light, lets see about strong!


Um, thanks? That's what this thread is for. For people to report on longevity.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Um, thanks? That's what this thread is for. For people to report on longevity.


Yeap, that's the point of this thread to share our experiences.


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## pedaler845 (Jul 18, 2004)

80 posts, and after 1 ride nothing broke :thumbsup:


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

pedaler845 said:


> 80 posts, and after 1 ride nothing broke :thumbsup:


So go buy one and throw your hat into the ring Captain Obvious. Or, keep posting nothing of value.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I'm gonna swap the cassette over to my son's rig, He rides 5 days a week. Today are hill repeats. Will be a good test.


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## Aby N (Jul 19, 2013)

My buddy is looking into this cassette.

For the people who bought the ztto 11-50,

are you running this version for ~$150- 

LIGHT-WEIGHT Weight 350 Grams, Extremely Light-Weight
RATIO: 11,13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 38, 44, 50T.

or

this unit for ~$56-


Weight: 660g. (11-50t); For Shimano HG splined freehubs only;
Ratios: 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42 and 50T.


if your having back pedaling issues, please state which version.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

That whole thread here is about the 350 grams version.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

From the posts here it sounds like a quality piece. I went ahead and ordered one while the 15$ off coupon was available. Tha makes it basically the same price as the Sunrace but 200 grams lighter.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I noticed that the lockring doesn't have a washer so the lockring will grind itself to dust if its taken on and off enough times. Just an fyi.


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## 14EVOHT (Jan 21, 2014)

I saw this on ebay, wider range, heavier, cheap

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUGEK-11-5...m=112675364336&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

14EVOHT said:


> I saw this on ebay, wider range, heavier, cheap
> 
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/SUGEK-11-5...m=112675364336&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851


Indeed. There are actually four 11-52 variants for Shimano's freehub. They're all listed in my sig.


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## 14EVOHT (Jan 21, 2014)

alexdi said:


> Indeed. There are actually four 11-52 variants for Shimano's freehub. They're all listed in my sig.


Thanks, I didn't see your link


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## mgalvez (Oct 19, 2006)

Installed my setup on Sunday. Shifts crisp and quick. Does downshift when back pedaled on the two biggest cogs. Its needs a full rotation to do that. Quality of the cassette looked good, especially the machining of the largest cogs. After a 6 mile run there is almost zero sign of any wear that I can see even on the black coating on the aluminum gears. So far I like it a lot and we will see how it wears in. My last extended range no longer downshifted when back pedaled after 20-30 miles.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Thanks for your feedback.
Looks good on your bike.


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## nomanic (Mar 11, 2010)

mgalvez said:


> Installed my setup on Sunday. Shifts crisp and quick. Does downshift when back pedaled on the two biggest cogs. Its needs a full rotation to do that. Quality of the cassette looked good, especially the machining of the largest cogs. After a 6 mile run there is almost zero sign of any wear that I can see even on the black coating on the aluminum gears. So far I like it a lot and we will see how it wears in. My last extended range no longer downshifted when back pedaled after 20-30 miles.


Could you please detail your rear mech setup? Is that a SGS XT derailleur with a goatlink attached?

Nivel bike, by the way.

Enviado desde mi VIE-L09 mediante Tapatalk


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## mgalvez (Oct 19, 2006)

Thanks! It's an xt 11 speed. Looks like a mid cage to me but I'm not sure. Let me know how to check and I can if anyone wants to know for sure. I used the 11spd goatlink. Just got the bike used about a month ago. It's a Evil the Calling. The range is not as crazy as I thought it would be but I feel like I have enough gear to go up anything.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

mgalvez said:


> Thanks! It's an xt 11 speed. Looks like a mid cage to me but I'm not sure. Let me know how to check and I can if anyone wants to know for sure. I used the 11spd goatlink. Just got the bike used about a month ago. It's a Evil the Calling. The range is not as crazy as I thought it would be but I feel like I have enough gear to go up anything.


I was going to say it looks like a long due to the cut outs but yours have a cut out on the lower pulley which only the medium cage has. Check the pics at Jenson.

Shimano XT RD-M8000 11SP Rear Derailleur | Jenson USA


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## mgalvez (Oct 19, 2006)

Cut outs look the same. I think its a mid.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

IMO, while an XTR long cage "works", the GX and X0 just shift much better with an 11/50 setup. 

That said, I just installed my ZTTO 11/50 and it has significant chain drop on backpedal. 50T takes less than 1/2 crank rotation to drop, 44T takes ~1 crank rotation to drop and the 38T will drop after 3-4 rotations. My sunrace has ZERO regardless of rotations, so I am not buying the "it's your chain-line bro!" BS. 


Cerberus75: If you have success filing yours, would you mind posting a how to?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I might have the time to get it back in the stand tomorrow. If I have any luck I'll post up. The 11-46 lifted on every 4th tooth if I remember correctly.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

DISCLAIMER: What is about to be typed may not be safe,strong, etc.

Ok with that out of the way filing the back of the teeth and a bit off the top solves the back peddle issue in the 50t cog. All of the teeth requied some filing to work. I haven't tried this I'm the trail, and I may not with work and the weather not cooperating.


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## Aby N (Jul 19, 2013)

Cerberus75 said:


> DISCLAIMER: filing the back of the teeth and a bit off the top solves the back peddle issue in the 50t cog. All of the teeth requied some filing to work.


pics of a before / after?

Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Aby N said:


> pics of a before / after?
> 
> Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:











Didn't take before pics.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Are you doing enough to create a small indention for the chain to "sit" in and prevent drop? Or are you just smoothing out the edges? 

Hard to tell from the photo.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Are you doing enough to create a small indention for the chain to "sit" in and prevent drop? Or are you just smoothing out the edges?
> 
> Hard to tell from the photo.


You are looking at the back of the cassette.
When I slowly back peddle every tooth would lift the chain, the tooth seemed a little to tall and wide, it would catch the chain on the tooth spoke side, so I when up a few gears, angled a file about 45° and applied gental pressure as I peddled the bike. Every so often checking to see if enough was removed by down shifting and the peddle backwards.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Ah, gotcha! So you are't filing the valleys, you are filing the tips. Thanks for the clarification!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Ah, gotcha! So you are't filing the valleys, you are filing the tips. Thanks for the clarification!


Correct.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Now our weather needs to clear up, so I can go see if this thing will explode on me.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Cerberus75 said:


> Now our weather needs to clear up, so I can go see if this thing will explode on me.


Haha. Assuming mine doesn't fail on me I'm planning to put about 50 miles on mine Sunday. ?


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Finally got a good ride in on this thing today. 48 miles later, I gotta say I like it! Single, double, triple shifts up or down and it handles it very well. I’m running a GX derailleur with it and it operated nice and smooth all day! For 135$ Prime I am impressed so far!


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

I have one of these:










so I can engage in a little mimicry that I have XX1 Eagle  It's heavy at 650 grams, but I'm a clyde, so whatever. 30 miles so far and it works just like every other cassette I ever had. I consider it 55 bucks well spent.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> I have one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice cassette:thumbsup:
**** the *"muh bike weikh"* mentality.
That thing looks great!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

uzurpator said:


> I have one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Which one is that?


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Finally got a good ride in on this thing today. 48 miles later, I gotta say I like it! Single, double, triple shifts up or down and it handles it very well. I'm running a GX derailleur with it and it operated nice and smooth all day! For 135$ Prime I am impressed so far!


$135 for the cassette or RD?


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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> I have one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


$55 seems more inline with what I am seeing...


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Staktup said:


> $135 for the cassette or RD?


135 for the cassette, however ppl keep linking and posting about a whole different cassette. The ones stalker is talking about is the 350g ZTTO 11-50 11speed.


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## mgalvez (Oct 19, 2006)

I did a 21 mile ride on Sunday. The ZTTO no longer drops on on the 3rd largest cog when back pedaled. Didn't try the bigger two...


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Staktup said:


> $135 for the cassette or RD?


Cassette. That's for the lightweight cassette that the thread was created about. Some of the others posted are much cheaper but they are also much heavier.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077QHS92R/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

mgalvez said:


> I did a 21 mile ride on Sunday. The ZTTO no longer drops on on the 3rd largest cog when back pedaled. Didn't try the bigger two...


Did you use a 11spd spacer for your cassette/hub?


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Switchblade2 said:


> I don't get the backpedal comments, I never backpedal so who cares about back pedal?


I ride trails that sometimes have 25-30% grade. Sometimes you stall and need to backpedal to get the cranks in the right position to push off and get moving again. If stalling on a rooty rocky hill isn't frustrating enough, toss a dropped chain into the mix. Your frustration level skyrockets!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> I ride trails that sometimes have 25-30% grade. Sometimes you stall and need to backpedal to get the cranks in the right position to push off and get moving again. If stalling on a rooty rocky hill isn't frustrating enough, toss a dropped chain into the mix. Your frustration level skyrockets!


^^This, I don't care if I can spin the cranks more than a revolution, I don't do that on a trail. But if I have to dab a chunky trail and worry about my chain at tyhe same time it's anoying.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Switchblade2 said:


> I don't ever remember back pedaling being an issue. I ride a ton of rocky Sedona washes every week with lots of rock rolls. I guess I now have something new to worry about.


A lot of cassettes will drop if pedaled backwards. But under normal riding it's a non issue. Some lift the chain with barley a turn. A 1/4 turn is all I see needed on a trail,


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

I like it to not drop after several revolutions. So when we’re stopped for a chat trail side I can backpedal a few times for everyone to hear how awesome my hub sounds. 😎


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> I like it to not drop after several revolutions. So when we're stopped for a chat trail side I can backpedal a few times for everyone to hear how awesome my hub sounds. 


Be in a different gear. The top two cogs are bail outs basically so its not like you'll be showing off in those gears much.


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## origo (Feb 24, 2018)

Tried the sunrace 11-50t twice, lasted more or less ½år each before it began to skip the chain on the two largest alloy cogs. Those were used like 5% of riding time. Just wonder how the two under (8-9 speed) alloy cogs would behave over time?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

origo said:


> Tried the sunrace 11-50t twice, lasted more or less ½år each before it began to skip the chain on the two largest alloy cogs. Those were used like 5% of riding time. Just wonder how the two under (8-9 speed) alloy cogs would behave over time?


The aluminum cogs on this cassette are thicker than the sunrace, but that doesn't mean much if the aluminum is different. Don't think anyone has long term info since this is new.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Any news of your ZTTO cassettes?
Are you still pleased with it?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

OneTrustMan said:


> Any news of your ZTTO cassettes?
> Are you still pleased with it?


Welp, so far so good. It's been thru one race, and about 3 rides a week. The back pedal issue is getting better as the cassette wears in.


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## mgalvez (Oct 19, 2006)

Mine has been great. A lot easier on my knees. The Amazon review is BS. Unless you installed it incorrectly or did something crazy, I do not see any way you could cause this part to fail.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

mgalvez said:


> Mine has been great. A lot easier on my knees. The Amazon review is BS. Unless you installed it incorrectly or did something crazy, I do not see any way you could cause this part to fail.


The only way I think it could get damages like that is if you back peddle and it jumps a lot of cogs, then you peddle standing, and it jumps back on the last cog.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Ok seeing as people have been having good luck and I was on a strict budget (be as cheap as possible without sacrificing reliability) to do a 29+ wheel set for my fat bike, giving this cassette a shot....

Since my fat bike is only 10s 11-42is the route I went. Fat wheels has the sunrace version.

In hand its not bad at all. Its not a shimano or sram cassette but I would call it competition for sunrace.

This build is for very light trail use (green XC) on rare occasion but more for paths, gravel, commuting etc because a road bike isnt for me. Tried for 2 years. Like wide tires. And Im a clyde. So the cassette will get a work out regardless.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Use the 12spd Sram chain.
Works way better on 11spd systems and prevents chain drop issues.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

In my case im using 11s chain on 10s system, doesnt the same thing. Just seems to work better especially at avoiding the drop issue.

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## Staktup (Jan 21, 2016)

RAKC Ind said:


> Ok seeing as people have been having good luck and I was on a strict budget (be as cheap as possible without sacrificing reliability) to do a 29+ wheel set for my fat bike, giving this cassette a shot....
> 
> Since my fat bike is only 10s 11-42is the route I went. Fat wheels has the sunrace version.
> 
> ...


Hey, did you have to lengthen the chain? Thanks


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

No because the cassette on my fat wheel set is also 11-42 10 speed, just sunrace instead of this off brand.. Everything is the exact same between wheels except the rear hubs. Which I wish I could have afforded a another rear hub that matches fat wheel so I didnt have to adjust caliper or derailluer when when swapping back and forth between wheel sets.

If your going a wider range in the rear (bigger granny ring) you will have to lengthen the chain, thats a given. I just matched things so I didnt have to.

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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Yeah it's the same thing.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

RAKC Ind said:


> No because the cassette on my fat wheel set is also 11-42 10 speed, just sunrace instead of this off brand.. Everything is the exact same between wheels except the rear hubs. Which I wish I could have afforded a another rear hub that matches fat wheel so I didnt have to adjust caliper or derailluer when when swapping back and forth between wheel sets.
> 
> If your going a wider range in the rear (bigger granny ring) you will have to lengthen the chain, thats a given. I just matched things so I didnt have to.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


So did you take this 11 speed cassette and just take a cog out to make it 10?

Or are you somehow mixing and matching?

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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

I wasn’t running the spacer in mine. Recently removed the cassette and installed the spacer and it shifts a little better after adjusting the cable. But I can go a full rotation of backpedal not without chain drop on the largest ring. Plenty enough to reset after a stall and get going again. 

Probably 300 miles on it so far and loving it.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

tfinator said:


> So did you take this 11 speed cassette and just take a cog out to make it 10?
> 
> Or are you somehow mixing and matching?
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


11-42 10 speed cassette. They are all over the place. No mixing and matching required. 10s versions from sunrace has been around for 2-3 years now, was nice because I could get more range on my fat bike without upgrading drivetrain.

These guys just offer a the same cassette for almost $20 less than sunrace, hopefully since this one wont get hammered on it holds up.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

RAKC Ind said:


> 11-42 10 speed cassette. They are all over the place. No mixing and matching required. 10s versions from sunrace has been around for 2-3 years now, was nice because I could get more range on my fat bike without upgrading drivetrain.
> 
> These guys just offer a the same cassette for almost $20 less than sunrace, hopefully since this one wont get hammered on it holds up.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


Understood, this thread is about the 11 speed one, and the higher cost version.

The 10 speed they have is all steel, and 530 grams, which is nothing special.

That's why I asked.

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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Its not all steel (except maybe the cogs) and is the cheapest wide range cassette so far. So nothing special but its CHEAP.

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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Finally got out on the bike today!!! Cassette held up to 20 miles ride. A lot of shifting (Well at that) and a 200lbs masher. I think it will hold up well. It now comes down to long term wear. An E13 cassette apparently is good for 500 miles being aluminum. If we can get that for a third the cost...any more I'll be happy.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Cerberus75 said:


> Finally got out on the bike today!!! Cassette held up to 20 miles ride. A lot of shifting (Well at that) and a 200lbs masher. I think it will hold up well. It now comes down to long term wear. An E13 cassette apparently is good for 500 miles being aluminum. If we can get that for a third the cost...any more I'll be happy.


500 miles?!?

I usually try to get a few thousand...

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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

tfinator said:


> 500 miles?!?
> 
> I usually try to get a few thousand...


My thought as well.
=sParty


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

tfinator said:


> 500 miles?!?
> 
> I usually try to get a few thousand...
> 
> Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk


Might luck out, but aluminum isn't going to last nearly as long as steel.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Few thousand on steel is doable. Aluminum I would be surprised if it makes it 1000 under the best of conditions (unless for road use not getting hammered on or covered in mud and such)

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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Just the big 4 cogs are aluminum, depending on where you ride I'd think that a lot, if not most of the time would be in the steel cogs.


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## cck_9 (Aug 8, 2016)

I remember this being in stock a week or so ago? How long was it out of stock last time?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I want to fallow for the feedbacks.
I have 2 questions.
I never have chain drops, is it because i am a lightweight?
Those who regularly have chain drops is it due to the fact that they overstress their transmission shifting under too much pressure?
Thanks.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

The chain drop is during back pedaling on the biggest cog. Can happen to anyone

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## Mike640 (Mar 3, 2016)

I have this cassete and it works fine without any issue. I recomend!


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Does ZTTO have stoped the production of this cassette?
I can't find it in their Aliexpress store anymore.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

"production"?

ZTTO is just one of many brands that sell those cassettes. They seem to come from a single source which I yet have to find.

https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholes...1&initiative_id=SB_20180323052757&needQuery=n

Listed as "Bolany", "BIKECO", "SUNTURE" ( lol ), "RISK" and "Rihui"


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

You could be right.
But I have seen a lot of products first on the ZTTO shop long before other sellers catched up.
So ZTTO could be the producer selling them their own products, but who knows.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

OneTrustMan said:


> You could be right.
> But I have seen a lot of products first on the ZTTO shop long before other sellers catched up.
> So ZTTO could be the producer selling them their own products, but who knows.


It's not really a brand or IP thing with Shenzen, it's an IP community. They all make the same product because they all share their IP communally. The differentiation is with their production and QC but that said they should all be quite similar.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

I think you are right.
But the QC by ZTTO seems to be better.
I saw other shops selling the same cassettes, but with bad reviews.
In 5 days is a big discount thing on Aliexpress.
I will by 1 of their gold 9spd cassettes for my workeday bike and one of their chains too.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Last weekend I REALLY torture tested this thing. 50 miles and 7000 feet of climbing. It rained the first 2 solid hours and I spent the rest of the day slogging through the mud. Chain caked in mud and derailleur covered this thing shifted smooth the whole day. The drivetrain made plenty of unhappy noises, but it never skipped a shift or did anything crazy.

Once I got home and cleaned up the bike, the worst I can find it some missing paint from the cogs. Still in good shape. Still shifting buttery smooth now that it's all clean a fresh lubed.


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

FYI: I ordered one on Feb. 5th and have yet to receive it. Order status shows that it has been shipped, but tracking number provided seems to be invalid.


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

After waiting two months, I submitted a claim via PayPal which was found in my favor. Tracking number provided was bogus and item never shipped. I had ordered this thru AliExpress.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

hwcn said:


> After waiting two months, I submitted a claim via PayPal which was found in my favor. Tracking number provided was bogus and item never shipped. I had ordered this thru AliExpress.


Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves

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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

Who else has had shifting trouble with the ZTTO 11-50 and what have you done about it? I'm running a medium cage XT mech and shifters and can't get my tension right - enough to upshift cleanly and it hangs when I downshift, and vice versa. I used a longer B screw to clear the 50T and now it's being suggested that my pulleys are too far from the cassette and I need to do something about that.

I'm considering the Wolf Tooth WolfCage or Garbaruk derailleur cage, I'm curious if anybody else has had the same trouble and what your solution was.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

Yootah said:


> Who else has had shifting trouble with the ZTTO 11-50 and what have you done about it? I'm running a medium cage XT mech and shifters and can't get my tension right - enough to upshift cleanly and it hangs when I downshift, and vice versa. I used a longer B screw to clear the 50T and now it's being suggested that my pulleys are too far from the cassette and I need to do something about that.
> 
> I'm considering the Wolf Tooth WolfCage or Garbaruk derailleur cage, I'm curious if anybody else has had the same trouble and what your solution was.


What about a goat link?

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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Yootah said:


> Who else has had shifting trouble with the ZTTO 11-50 and what have you done about it? I'm running a medium cage XT mech and shifters and can't get my tension right - enough to upshift cleanly and it hangs when I downshift, and vice versa. I used a longer B screw to clear the 50T and now it's being suggested that my pulleys are too far from the cassette and I need to do something about that.
> 
> I'm considering the Wolf Tooth WolfCage or Garbaruk derailleur cage, I'm curious if anybody else has had the same trouble and what your solution was.


It's not really the cassette that's the problem, you got other/typical issues with going to a 50t cassette. B screw length only does so much, if you set it to clear the 50t you will find it is too far from the rest of the cassette. I'd start with a goat link for starters. You don't need a longer B screw with the goat link. Have you checked your hanger alignment or know if its straight?

For ex.
XTR short cage RD with goat link, stock B screw.



thesmokingman said:


> View attachment 1181025


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

My XTR med cage shifted fine, til I bent the jockey arm on a rock/stump/something. Then had the exact issues you mention. Make sure everything is perfectly true before you start chasing your tail on shifting issues and attribute them all to the cassette.


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

thesmokingman said:


> Have you checked your hanger alignment or know if its straight?





Stalkerfiveo said:


> My XTR med cage shifted fine, til I bent the jockey arm on a rock/stump/something. Then had the exact issues you mention. Make sure everything is perfectly true before you start chasing your tail on shifting issues and attribute them all to the cassette.


It's a brand new mech but I have not checked the hanger. I'll start there, thanks fellas.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I personally think the m8000 needs a Goat Link or special cage for over 46t cassettes


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## mokong (Apr 24, 2018)

Hej all i purchased the ztto 11-50 9 speed.
Ive installed it, quite good. Quite and responsive.
Got one question though it does not change to the lowest cog, the derailer is hitting or touching the cog.
I want to ask do i have to change the derailier?
I have the longcage 9 speed.
Any suggestions?
Or any experience to share?
Thank you in advance.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

mokong said:


> Hej all i purchased the ztto 11-50 9 speed.
> Ive installed it, quite good. Quite and responsive.
> Got one question though it does not change to the lowest cog, the derailer is hitting or touching the cog.
> I want to ask do i have to change the derailier?
> ...


Goat link if you're on Shimano

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## mokong (Apr 24, 2018)

I have a sram x7.
The goatlink is not available in the country im staying.
Will it work if i change the derailer?
Thank you.


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

Apparently I need to add one of those Park hanger alignment tools to my box - the hanger was definitely out of whack, and that tool is a pretty slick way to calibrate it. Good call, you guys that recommended I check that first.

Fixing the bent hanger improved the shifting by an order of magnitude, but I still couldn't quite dial it in, so after an email consult with Wolftooth I pulled the trigger on a WolfCage. That flipfloppy mech pulley is a pretty neat idea. It took some fiddling with the B screw and cable tension to get it just right and there's not a lot of margin for error, but I've got it shifting up and down smoothly with only the occasional hang so I'm going to call it a win and go ride my bike.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

mokong said:


> I have a sram x7.
> The goatlink is not available in the country im staying.
> Will it work if i change the derailer?
> Thank you.


Im not even sure how or why they make a 50t in 9 speed. They simply wont work worth a crap. If you can get it to shift onto the 50t the shifting is trashed on the rest of the cassette. SRAM 10 speed doesnt like anything more than a 42t. I know Im dealing with it right now. Had to mod the b-limit screw set up because it bent the screw and damaged the threads in the derailleur. And B-limit adjustment is very touchy. Just enough it doesnt bind or grind badly shifting onto the 42t otherwise shifting is garbage on the bottom of the cassette.

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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

uzurpator said:


> I have one of these:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


After grinding my ZTTO 11-50 - the cheapest model, I have stuttered and jump-cut my way through an in-depth review of it.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

So mine has lasted 150miles I have 3 broken teeth. Won't be getting another one. I put my Sunrace back on and will decide on a new lighter option.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

Cerberus75 said:


> So mine has lasted 150miles I have 3 broken teeth. Won't be getting another one. I put my Sunrace back on and will decide on a new lighter option.


Do you have a pic of what teeth broke? What were you doing when it broke?

Thanks,


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

davesupra said:


> Do you have a pic of what teeth broke? What were you doing when it broke?
> 
> Thanks,


I was shifting on flat terrain. And hear a ping. Shifted into next higher gear. And heard another.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

This is exactly why I refuse to buy light weight cassettes. I don't buy the cheapest and heaviest. I was thinking about this cassette to give me a bit more low range for climbing ( can't go lower on chainring since I'm using CAMO). But this reinforced why I stay away from overly light stuff.

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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

RAKC Ind said:


> This is exactly why I refuse to buy light weight cassettes. I don't buy the cheapest and heaviest. I was thinking about this cassette to give me a bit more low range for climbing ( can't go lower on chainring since I'm using CAMO). But this reinforced why I stay away from overly light stuff.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


I put my almost worn Sunrace back on and am amazed how nice this cassette shifts.


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## RAKC Ind (Jan 27, 2017)

Right now in on a sunrace 11-46 and except for the step up to the 46T is a little narrow I have 0 complaints. It's on its second season and it's been flawless the except the backpedal issue which seems to exist on any set up I have tried.

Though I just put a dt 350 hub on a few weeks ago and now about to do first ride with 36t star in it. Maybe better engagement not lower range is what I need.

I was really hopeful though about another budget cassette option but seems sunrace is all we have right now unless we want higher weight.

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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

RAKC Ind said:


> Right now in on a sunrace 11-46 and except for the step up to the 46T is a little narrow I have 0 complaints. It's on its second season and it's been flawless the except the backpedal issue which seems to exist on any set up I have tried.
> 
> Though I just put a dt 350 hub on a few weeks ago and now about to do first ride with 36t star in it. Maybe better engagement not lower range is what I need.
> 
> ...


Sunrace pretty much solved the backpedaling issue on 11-50 cassettes. I'm on a Canfield Riot so the short stays dont make the best chainline and I can backpedaled it.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Cerberus75 said:


> I was shifting on flat terrain. And hear a ping. Shifted into next higher gear. And heard another.
> View attachment 1199974


Damn! I've got about 1000 miles on mine and it's still going strong. 205# rider with a few rides that had 5000+ feet of climbing. Been a champ so far! Wish they weren't out of stock everywhere.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Damn! I've got about 1000 miles on mine and it's still going strong. 205# rider with a few rides that had 5000+ feet of climbing. Been a champ so far! Wish they weren't out of stock everywhere.


I'm the same weight. And I've been careful with it. My rides are more rolling and technical so I'm all over the cassette a lot.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Damn! I've got about 1000 miles on mine and it's still going strong. 205# rider with a few rides that had 5000+ feet of climbing. Been a champ so far! Wish they weren't out of stock everywhere.


Ali Express has them, I searched for ztto or "11-50t ultralight". Shipping takes a bit, but the price is right, and I haven't been scammed yet. I've had good luck with the sunrace cassettes as well off of Ali Express.


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## srmanuel (Oct 31, 2017)

So the real weigth is 363 grms? 

Seller says 350 for ztto,even with pixtures of it.
Other sellers with different brand same cassettes says 363-367.

Is the ztto then different than the other chinese competition?


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

I'm about 170 lb, have had several good rides on the cassette so far. I'm not sure about mileage, but I haven't had any wear/breakage issues so far.

Shifting is good for the most part, if I rated my last shimano cassette as a 10, I would rate this one as a 9. Once in a while the shift will take slightly longer. There is one area toward the middle of the cassette where there is a slightly larger jump than I'm used to with my previous 11-42 cassette, but it's not terrible. Overall, I'm happy so far.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

*Hi, I am the international sales manager of ZTTO components.*



Cerberus75 said:


> I was shifting on flat terrain. And hear a ping. Shifted into next higher gear. And heard another.
> View attachment 1199974
> View attachment 1199974


About the quality problem, since it's an super light weight cassette, we can't avoid it to break, but we provide warranty, please contact us on both amazon or aliexpress, we will send you a new product right away.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

I am the international sales manager of ZTTO components. If anyone met anything like a quality defect, please send us some pictures by where you buy them, and we will provide you a new product without any questions asked.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Hi, I am the sales manager of ZTTO components, I am in charge of aliexpress and amazon. ZTTO is our own brand. We own the cassette factory and we have to sell them to other distributors to keep the factory running. We also own an air suspension factory.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, I am the sales manager of ZTTO components, I am in charge of aliexpress and amazon. ZTTO is our own brand. We own the cassette factory and we have to sell them to other distributors to keep the factory running. We also own an air suspension factory.


Thank you.
That is good to know.
Is there any chance that you will make a 11-46 version of your super light cassette in the future?
I would be very interested in having one.
Cheers!


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> About the quality problem, since it's an super light weight cassette, we can't avoid it to break, but we provide warranty, please contact us on both amazon or aliexpress, we will send you a new product right away.


I just inquired through Amazon where I purchased it. Thanks.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

QingchenHuang said:


> About the quality problem, since it's an super light weight cassette, we can't avoid it to break, but we provide warranty, please contact us on both amazon or aliexpress, we will send you a new product right away.


Thanks for standing behind your product. I've been running this 11-50 without any problems so far.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

davesupra said:


> Thanks for standing behind your product. I've been running this 11-50 without any problems so far.


OK, if you see any problem or have any suggestions, please contact us.


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## oldgranola (Jan 31, 2016)

*always a trade off on weight, quality, wear, price: Have a suggestion*



QingchenHuang said:


> About the quality problem, since it's an super light weight cassette, we can't avoid it to break, but we provide warranty, please contact us on both amazon or aliexpress, we will send you a new product right away.


There's always a trade off on weight, quality, wear, price. Sounds like this doesn't make the cut on wear vs price at this weight for hard MTBR use. There is no point in shaving weight to the point it breaks easily. However, I really like the concept and shape and look, particularly the spiders. But it looks like it needs to be TT, or other super hard alloy, certainly not alum. Of course that means $$. You have something promising going on here, I'll keep an eye. BTW, I'd like to see it in a wide road group...11x36..with those cut-outs please. Perhaps a better target market for this??


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

A year ago i bought a used bike with a no name frame. All the components are the best, the transmission is SRAM 11 speeds OX1 with a 10-42 cassette wich i love. It came with a 32 in the front and i replaced it with a 28. When that cassette is used i could get this 11-50 with my 32 front, would i need to buy anything other than a chain? Would the same shifting quality be maintained? I am a light rider more in endurance than power so it would probably last me a long time. I just prefer to stay away if it gets me the feeling of a so so transmission. Now i have a 420% ratio, a wider one would be nice but it is not a must for me, i would appreciate testing it for fluidity. 
Thanks.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

oldgranola said:


> There's always a trade off on weight, quality, wear, price. Sounds like this doesn't make the cut on wear vs price at this weight for hard MTBR use. There is no point in shaving weight to the point it breaks easily. However, I really like the concept and shape and look, particularly the spiders. But it looks like it needs to be TT, or other super hard alloy, certainly not alum. Of course that means $$. You have something promising going on here, I'll keep an eye. BTW, I'd like to see it in a wide road group...11x36..with those cut-outs please. Perhaps a better target market for this??


We are now developing a 11 speed 11-34t cassette for road. But not super lightweight, we will consider your advice and try to develop a road version of this.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> We are now developing a 11 speed 11-34t cassette for road. But not super lightweight, we will consider your advice and try to develop a road version of this.


May I ask what the name ZTTO stands for?
I'm just curious.
My guess, it has something to do with a family name.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

davesupra said:


> Thanks for standing behind your product. I've been running this 11-50 without any problems so far.


You are use it with the Eagle derailleur, right?
I think a lot of those cassette failures came from the usage of an unsuitable rear derailleur that simply can't handle the 50T well.

For the Eagle of course the 50T are nothing, so playing around with the B-screw is not needed.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

OneTrustMan said:


> You are use it with the Eagle derailleur, right?
> I think a lot of those cassette failures came from the usage of an unsuitable rear derailleur that simply can't handle the 50T well.
> 
> For the Eagle of course the 50T are nothing, so playing around with the B-screw is not needed.


Yep, I'm using an eagle derailleur and an X1 11 speed shifter. It was pretty easy to set up and once I got it dialed in I haven't had to mess with it. You might be right about the standard 11 speed derailleurs not having the range being the problem for some.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

davesupra said:


> Yep, I'm using an eagle derailleur and an X1 11 speed shifter. It was pretty easy to set up and once I got it dialed in I haven't had to mess with it. You might be right about the standard 11 speed derailleurs not having the range being the problem for some.


Glad to hear. 
To my knowledge, the only 11spd derailleur that officially is suited for 50T is the Box Two X-Wide.
Kind of wanna try it out, but I don't need it


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

My GX 11sp derailleur works great with the ZTTO lightweight cassette and has lots of B screw adjustment left.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> May I ask what the name ZTTO stands for?
> I'm just curious.
> My guess, it has something to do with a family name.


It's just a name. No special meaning about it, any other brands with meaning already been registered by other company. Before I join the company, it's a pure domestic company and don't do export. I established the business of aliexpress and amazon selling. I used to running a small bike shop and knows English.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> It's just a name. No special meaning about it, any other brands with meaning already been registered by other company. Before I join the company, it's a pure domestic company and don't do export. I established the business of aliexpress and amazon selling. I used to running a small bike shop and knows English.


Will you bring back the cassette to Amazon? Also will you make cassettes on the new Shimano 12spd freehub spline system? Thanks.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Thanks.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

thesmokingman said:


> Will you bring back the cassette to Amazon? Also will you make cassettes on the new Shimano 12spd freehub spline system? Thanks.


Hi, I would love to send them to FBA warehouse, but the problem is, if someone give me a bad review, I can't sell them anymore, those products will stuck in Amazon warehouse. These cassettes are quite expensive. The loss is not what I can bear. About the 12 speed cassette, we already have ordinary version for traditional shimano freehub. You can find them on our aliexpress website.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

That sucks about Amazon. I bought mine when they were ~130$ Prime and it arrived at my door 2 days later. But I absolutely hate ordering anything that takes several weeks to show up. If they were still in Amazon warehouses I would buy a second one TODAY!


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## hwcn (Jul 31, 2010)

I have on that I mounted and it does not fit correctly on my SunRingle freehub. It has been mounted, and ridden less than 50 yards. I can't get it to work properly. I will sell it cheap. PM me offers, but I will not guarantee the item. Also, the locknut is aluminum and very soft, so in the first mounting the serrations wore off. If you include ur cell # in the PM, I'll send pics.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I was sent another cassette. So I'll give it another try and see how it goes. But at least they approached me. I didn't ask, I was going to just chuck it up to a learning experience.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I'd be curious to know which cassettes are wide range (11-46/11-50/11-52) and made out of mostly steel sprockets. 

I don't care too much about weight from material as I do design and range. SRAM’s GX-level XG-1150 10-42t cassette is beautiful, lightweight, affordable (relatively at least) and all steel. If I could get an 10spd (or 11spd) HG cassette in 11-46 that is all steel and under 450g, that'd be rad.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

PHeller said:


> I'd be curious to know which cassettes are wide range (11-46/11-50/11-52) and made out of mostly steel sprockets.
> 
> I don't care too much about weight from material as I do design and range. SRAM's GX-level XG-1150 10-42t cassette is beautiful, lightweight, affordable (relatively at least) and all steel. If I could get an 10spd (or 11spd) HG cassette in 11-46 that is all steel and under 450g, that'd be rad.


I think nobody considers 11-46 wide range.
My mountain bike has 11 speeds, SRAM 10-42 and i love it, it s a XO1. I just watched this morning and in Quebec Canada i can replace it for 186$CA or about 140$US. To fit my climbing focus i love my 28 front ring. I could have similar ratios with 30 in front and 11-46 but with a different hub. Others are much more expensives. Some buy from china real cheap. Do a search.
My fatbike is 10 speeds i switched from 11-36 to 11-42, real happy low price.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Has anyone used both the ZTTO 11-50 and Garbaruk 11-50? I'm curious about how the difference in how the different gaps between gears on the two different cassettes affects riders?

ZTTO 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 38, 44, 50

Garbaruk 11, 13, 15, 17, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42, 50


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

jrob300 said:


> Has anyone used both the ZTTO 11-50 and Garbaruk 11-50? I'm curious about how the difference in how the different gaps between gears on the two different cassettes affects riders?
> 
> ZTTO 11, 13, 15, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32, 38, 44, 50
> 
> Garbaruk 11, 13, 15, 17, 20, 24, 28, 32, 36, 42, 50


The Garbaruk is like the Sunrace but much lighter. If you spend a lot of time in the smaller gears the progression is nice. The ZTTO seems nicer in the bigger cogs of you spend a lot of time in them, but won't last as long.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

I received my new cassette from warrentee as promised. Only have one ride on this one. But it shift much better than the last one and I can back pedal a half rotation as well.


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## DParris1 (Jul 27, 2018)

*Warranty on Zitto 11-50 Cassette?*



Cerberus75 said:


> I received my new cassette from warrentee as promised. Only have one ride on this one. But it shift much better than the last one and I can back pedal a half rotation as well.


I purchased a Zitto 11-50 lightweight cassette a little over a month ago. The cassette works great - shifts smooth, works great with an XT setup. However, on the large aluminum cog set the smallest cog has been losing teeth. So far, 3 teeth have broken off (I think this cog has 32 teeth on it). The rest of the cassette seems to be holding up just fine. But if more teeth break off the 32 tooth cassette I could have an unusable cassette soon.
So I was wondering what type of warranty Zitto has on these cassettes and how do you go about contacting them?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

DParris1 said:


> I purchased a Zitto 11-50 lightweight cassette a little over a month ago. The cassette works great - shifts smooth, works great with an XT setup. However, on the large aluminum cog set the smallest cog has been losing teeth. So far, 3 teeth have broken off (I think this cog has 32 teeth on it). The rest of the cassette seems to be holding up just fine. But if more teeth break off the 32 tooth cassette I could have an unusable cassette soon.
> So I was wondering what type of warranty Zitto has on these cassettes and how do you go about contacting them?


I stated mine broke here and the rep got in contact with me. You could try through where you bought it. I was told to do a return through Amazon since that was where I bought mine.


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## davesupra (Sep 2, 2013)

I raced the maah daah hey 100 a week ago using this cassette, not a single issue with it. The 50t and 44t were used a lot in the 10,000+ feet of climbing. Very happy with the cassette so far.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Just to kick this up: there's now a 12-speed 11-52 with partial alloy construction. $120, 413g.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ZTT...d-UltraLight-K7-12V-413g-CNC/32917903708.html

Ratios charted here per usual:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...IeMSFukkBFV6D1DRbfS59EDrE/edit#gid=1267427822


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm going to necro this thread because I took off my ZTTO 11-50 and I got an opportunity to show why heavy cassettes suck.


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> I'm going to necro this thread because I took off my ZTTO 11-50 and I got an opportunity to show why heavy cassettes suck.


Yup, mine does that if I abruptly stop pedaling in the higher gears.


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## askjasonbowen (Apr 27, 2014)

Hi just bought the 10 Speed Ztto cassette and 10s chain for my Orbea Occam.

Trying to get my new 10 speed cassette to work but getting some issues.
The Derailleur seems to be full stretched when I try to get on the biggest cog and won't do it consistently. The B screw was replaced with a linger one and the B link installed instead of connecting the hanger to derailleur directly. If I get it to go up on the big tooth smooth by adjusting the barrel, it will skip gears coming up and won't go to the smallest 11t.
I have a goat link that came with the cassette but it didn't look like it was meant to work in the angle when mounted.

Need some advice Please.


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## steve447 (Mar 18, 2009)

Bought the Ztto 11-50 11spd lightweight cassette and fitted it to my 2016 Intense T275 Tracer. Works great with xt 8000 RD and wolftooth Goatlink......50 miles so far of which half was spent on the big ring. Shifts great.


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## cloud5g (Oct 30, 2018)

Huh? The cassette will be kept from spinning by the chain in the drive direction. The only time that would matter is when the user takes their feet off the peddles. Weight does matter but not for that reason.

The leading bike drive manufacturers, namely Sram and Shimano, have done a half-arsed job. The two companies designs are hacks that provide poor system engineering and require far too much use of adapters, non-standardized use of spacers and proprietary fixes. Bike buyers/riders should demand the two companies to spearhead standards for bike design that includes the wheel, wheel hub assembly, specification of frame dimensions (the existing Boost dimensions may suffice). 

MTB bike riders increasingly are shifting to 1x drivetrains with wide-range cassettes. The problem, including with leading production bikes, is that this results in a chain line that causes problems in the widest cassette gears. The chain hits the gear rings at an angle that adds to the difficulty of achieving reliable gear change and low noise and wear. This misalignment and lack of built-in adjustment in the drive-line also contributes to the back-peddling chain-derailment problem experienced with some (Chinese) machined aluminum cassettes: if the angle was not pulling the chain to the outer rings it would not be prone to slippage and shifts would be smoother.

Bike riders and shops are high on endorphins from riding: they should be demanding the major suppliers to deliver products that are better than the rag-tag proprietary slug-fest now on the market IMO.

Demand standards for bike drivetrains from the leading suppliers. That should be the one thing all bike riders should agree IMO.


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## cloud5g (Oct 30, 2018)

11-46 is wide-range because it achieves a wide range of ratio with the front gear that encompasses most of the range of 3x10/11 speed drivetrains. Is 11-50 wide range? Yes. It achieves a 5% higher ratio than 11-46. That 5% can be more important than the percentage indicates, depending on the rider. However, get real, this is a matter of the ability to use the gearing of a 1x10-12 system that varies far more based on the abilities and preference of riders than it does on the 5% difference in mechanical gearing.


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## cloud5g (Oct 30, 2018)

Thanks. Very nicely done a spreadsheet.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

cloud5g said:


> Huh? The cassette will be kept from spinning by the chain in the drive direction. The only time that would matter is when the user takes their feet off the peddles. Weight does matter but not for that reason.


I made a video about the backlash... here: 



 where you can clearly see why it matters. I had bikes on which the problem was so severe, that they were unrideable on higher gears.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

*We already changed the cassette design and use narrow wide design.*


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> I made a video about the backlash... here:
> 
> 
> 
> where you can clearly see why it matters. I had bikes on which the problem was so severe, that they were unrideable on higher gears.


Hi, you can check our new narrow wide design, I think there is no problem with back-pedaling issue on 50t, we also launched our 11 speed 11-52t and 12 speed 11-52t lightweight cassette.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, you can check our new narrow wide design, I think there is no problem with back-pedaling issue on 50t, we also launched our 11 speed 11-52t and 12 speed 11-52t lightweight cassette.


Where are you selling the new narrow wide design? The images at the links below do not appear to be narrow wide design:

https://www.amazon.com/Ztto-Speed-R...t=&hvlocphy=9010934&hvtargid=pla-569165291239

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/ZTT...-CNC-Freewheel-Mountain-Bike/32842871548.html


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, you can check our new narrow wide design, I think there is no problem with back-pedaling issue on 50t, we also launched our 11 speed 11-52t and 12 speed 11-52t lightweight cassette.


Well. You are free to send me one anyday  I am all burned out on 1xX drivetrain. The only way I am buying a wide-range cassette is if it has proper progressive sequencing. Even then - I am not going to buy anything wider then 11-40. There is a void in the market for 11 and 12 speed cassettes with intermediate sizes - like 11-34 to 11-40 and thereabouts. Those which are offered have horrible sequencing anyways.

I'll stick with Shimano until you people fix your thing.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> Well. You are free to send me one anyday  I am all burned out on 1xX drivetrain. The only way I am buying a wide-range cassette is if it has proper progressive sequencing. Even then - I am not going to buy anything wider then 11-40. There is a void in the market for 11 and 12 speed cassettes with intermediate sizes - like 11-34 to 11-40 and thereabouts. Those which are offered have horrible sequencing anyways.
> 
> I'll stick with Shimano until you people fix your thing.


For 20 months i use a SRAM 11 speeds, 10-42, if you try 1 guess you will fall in love. It is the best transmission in my opinion and at 61 i had many bikes.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

11spd 11-34?

Is that like...a road cassette?


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

uzurpator said:


> Well. You are free to send me one anyday  I am all burned out on 1xX drivetrain. The only way I am buying a wide-range cassette is if it has proper progressive sequencing. Even then - I am not going to buy anything wider then 11-40. There is a void in the market for 11 and 12 speed cassettes with intermediate sizes - like 11-34 to 11-40 and thereabouts. Those which are offered have horrible sequencing anyways.
> 
> I'll stick with Shimano until you people fix your thing.


Just stick to XTR or 2x then.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

33red said:


> For 20 months i use a SRAM 11 speeds, 10-42, if you try 1 guess you will fall in love. It is the best transmission in my opinion and at 61 i had many bikes.


My oldest experiment with 1xX is 10 years old now. It was a custom made 11-39 on 8 speeds. It always ends in the same way - which is abuse of the 11-18 range on the majority of my riding. And when I actually need the low range, then it is two bottom gears ( 30-50 and 30-42 atm ) and abuse of 11-18 otherwise.



PHeller said:


> 11spd 11-34?
> Is that like...a road cassette?


No. 11 speed 11-32 is a road cassette. What shimano and ZTTO offer in the 11-34 to 11-40 are eldtrich abominations. Only SRAM with their wi-fli cassettes has a faint clue how to make those.



Cerberus75 said:


> Just stick to XTR or 2x then.


Majority of newish bikes can't take a 2x. Including my Mondraker.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

uzurpator said:


> My oldest experiment with 1xX is 10 years old now. It was a custom made 11-39 on 8 speeds. It always ends in the same way - which is abuse of the 11-18 range on the majority of my riding. And when I actually need the low range, then it is two bottom gears ( 30-50 and 30-42 atm ) and abuse of 11-18 otherwise.
> 
> No. 11 speed 11-32 is a road cassette. What shimano and ZTTO offer in the 11-34 to 11-40 are eldtrich abominations. Only SRAM with their wi-fli cassettes has a faint clue how to make those.
> 
> Majority of newish bikes can't take a 2x. Including my Mondraker.


XTR is still available 11-40. Or you can use road cassettes. If you want short steps. But unfortunately most people want a range of 2x with wider range cassettes.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, you can check our new narrow wide design, I think there is no problem with back-pedaling issue on 50t, we also launched our 11 speed 11-52t and 12 speed 11-52t lightweight cassette.


What is the weigh on the 11-52?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

The weight is around 371 grams.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Cerberus75 said:


> What is the weigh on the 11-52?


about371grams


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

QingchenHuang said:


> View attachment 1226311


ZTTO 11 Speed 11-50t Light-Weight Cassette Improved Version Shifting Test


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> ZTTO 11 Speed 11-50t Light-Weight Cassette Improved Version Shifting Test


Again I ask: Where can the NEW version be purchased? Everything I have found shows the image of the old design.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Again I ask: Where can the NEW version be purchased? Everything I have found shows the image of the old design.


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077QHS92R


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077QHS92R


Thanks


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

I buy this SLR CASSETTE: 12s 11-52 
https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/ZTTO...locidade-Ultraleve-MTB-12-K7/32917903708.html

To use with GX EAGLE derraileur... its works ok?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Thiagooo said:


> I buy this SLR CASSETTE: 12s 11-52
> https://pt.aliexpress.com/item/ZTTO...locidade-Ultraleve-MTB-12-K7/32917903708.html
> 
> To use with GX EAGLE derraileur... its works ok?


I didn't test it by myself. I just bought a GX eagle groupset, I will tell you the result later when I do the test myself, but I think this is compatible, our factory already did the test.


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## cokratex (Jul 28, 2012)

How do you know that the chain will go in the narrow wide pattern every time? Sounds like it is 50-50 chance of success vs disaster! 

Skickat från min SM-G950F via Tapatalk


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

cokratex said:


> How do you know that the chain will go in the narrow wide pattern every time? Sounds like it is 50-50 chance of success vs disaster!
> 
> Skickat från min SM-G950F via Tapatalk


We got a tooth design that make things work.


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## TheLittle (May 8, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, I am the sales manager of ZTTO components, I am in charge of aliexpress and amazon. ZTTO is our own brand. We own the cassette factory and we have to sell them to other distributors to keep the factory running. We also own an air suspension factory.


Very good to know.

Long time I have this question in mind... Is there any patent issue for making SRAM XD freehub compatible cassetes? Would be awesome to have a 11 speed 10-50 cassete with similar construction to these light ones your company sell.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

TheLittle said:


> Very good to know.
> 
> Long time I have this question in mind... Is there any patent issue for making SRAM XD freehub compatible cassetes? Would be awesome to have a 11 speed 10-50 cassete with similar construction to these light ones your company sell.


I don't think that chinese manufacturers are in a position to care about patents. But XD freehub is an abject failure of engineering and even SRAM themselves can't make a cassette for it that does not involve tns of CNC or a metric ton of pins to work.


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## TheLittle (May 8, 2009)

uzurpator said:


> I don't think that chinese manufacturers are in a position to care about patents. But XD freehub is an abject failure of engineering and even SRAM themselves can't make a cassette for it that does not involve tns of CNC or a metric ton of pins to work.


there are other manufactures that make compatible cassetes.
Not cheap, tho..

e13
garbaruk
leonardi

now Sunrace came with its own standard but with available adapter to fit Sram XD hubs. check here: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/sunra...-is-for-the-groms-taipei-cycle-show-2018.html


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

All four of those options involve extensive amount of CNC and precise forging of the smallest cogs because they need to fit one onto another. Chinese manufacturers occupy lower end of the market, so they are not in a position to offer XD compatible cassettes at that price bracket.

That Sunrace cassette adaptor sleeve thingy is going to be major PITA to remove.


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## TheLittle (May 8, 2009)

and the chinese kinda of care about some patents, or maybe lawsuits. Try to find generic Shimano ICE finned brake pads in common stores (ebay and aliexpress for instance) and you wont. Talked to one manufacturer and he told me that Shimano doesnt allow them to sell it, despite having all the machinery to do it, including finned brake pads for other brakes such SRAM, hope, etc. For some period of time I saw such things being sold in ali, but nowadays its impossible to find.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> I don't think that chinese manufacturers are in a position to care about patents. But XD freehub is an abject failure of engineering and even SRAM themselves can't make a cassette for it that does not involve tns of CNC or a metric ton of pins to work.


What is the issue with the pinned construction? From a consumer perspective if I compare let's say the XT 11-42 and the XG1150 10-42 all I see is lower weight, all steel construction, and a price difference of about €15.

Genuine question, not trying to argue or troll or anything like that, i'm just interested in how things work.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

@TheLittle

I think there is a much simpler reason - people buy $3 pads on Aliexpress, not the $15. I have a few listings for off-brand finned pads there.

@HollyBoni

There is nothing "wrong" in and off itsself. If there is, it is between SRAMs customers and its warranty department. The issue is a matter complexity.

Full pin 10-42 requires 130ish pins, 11 cogs and that lock-ring/tube gizmo - 140 parts. Each pin needs to be pressed precisely into its socket, so each pin is also two failure points. Each cog on that cassette supports at least one other cog and the entire thing works as an unit - when you pedal all pins from cogs bigger then the current are loaded. So if one connection starts to fail, the entire thing does. Moreover - putting it togather is labor intensive so - costly.

11 speed $25 chinese cassette is made out of 11 cogs, 2 carriers, 6 large rivets and a few plastic spacers. Total of ~20 parts. It takes a second to put it togather.

SRAM went out of their way in this pinned design because XD driver requires a cassette that has all cogs supporting each other - like in the top designs - but they also need something from the lower tier. XD simply denies the possibility to just stamp a few cogs, put spacers and call it a day.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

TheLittle said:


> and the chinese kinda of care about some patents, or maybe lawsuits. Try to find generic Shimano ICE finned brake pads in common stores (ebay and aliexpress for instance) and you wont. Talked to one manufacturer and he told me that Shimano doesnt allow them to sell it, despite having all the machinery to do it, including finned brake pads for other brakes such SRAM, hope, etc. For some period of time I saw such things being sold in ali, but nowadays its impossible to find.


I agree with you, nowadays, most of our products are selling to other countries instead of China. So we do afraid of Patent lawsuit. There is no problem with CNC technology and XD Cassette, we even have XD structure prototype cassette. But to avoid the potential risks, we decide not to sell XD cassettes for now. About the SHIMANO ICE brake pads you found on Amazon, I am sure they are 100% fake products. I even know who made them. Also M520 SPD clipless pedals or road cleat covers, all of them are counterfeit products.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> @TheLittle
> 
> I think there is a much simpler reason - people buy $3 pads on Aliexpress, not the $15. I have a few listings for off-brand finned pads there.
> 
> ...


we have XD cassette prototypes. Full CNC from the steel, just like xx1 eagle. We don;t need much pins to rivet the cassette. About Aliexpress's brake pads, all of them are counterfeit products, shimano was already investigating the problem.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> All four of those options involve extensive amount of CNC and precise forging of the smallest cogs because they need to fit one onto another. Chinese manufacturers occupy lower end of the market, so they are not in a position to offer XD compatible cassettes at that price bracket.
> 
> That Sunrace cassette adaptor sleeve thingy is going to be major PITA to remove.


You are wrong about it, we do make XD cassette, but for OEM only, we don't have any technology issues for making them. Maybe you guys will see me sell full CNC XD steel cassette on aliexpress later.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

TheLittle said:


> there are other manufactures that make compatible cassetes.
> Not cheap, tho..
> 
> e13
> ...


About the price, we may sell something with structure identical to xx1 eagle cassette for about 200-250 USD.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

QingchenHuang: I'm not saying that you can't make XD compatible cassettes. I am saying that you won't be selling them for $30-ish and that is where the volume of sales on Ali seems to come from.

Regarding the Shimano pads - I was more saying that finned pads are there on Aliexpress, and even then - most people in my neck of the woods buy entire lots of those $3/pair 'weird' brand pads because they are cheap and, apparently, adequate.

EDIT: Judging from the picture you attached - the cassette is 11-42. So the selling point of the XD driver - which is the 10T small cog, is lost on it.

EDIT2:

http://www.flysroad.cn/product/43.html

I love this.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

QingchenHuang said:


> About the price, we may sell something with structure identical to xx1 eagle cassette for about 200-250 USD.


That would be awesome if you can come close to the weight of the XX1/01 for around $200. That would just about convince me to move to 12sp.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

RS VR6 said:


> That would be awesome if you can come close to the weight of the XX1/01 for around $200. That would just about convince me to move to 12sp.


http://www.flysroad.cn/product/33.html

362g, ~200$


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Whoa...that's awesome. GX derailleur and X01 shifter...tempting. Not sure I want to be the guinea pig though :ihih:.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> we have XD cassette prototypes. Full CNC from the steel, just like xx1 eagle. We don;t need much pins to rivet the cassette. About Aliexpress's brake pads, all of them are counterfeit products, shimano was already investigating the problem.
> View attachment 1228756


I kinda want to try that XD cassette 
Is it 12 speed?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> 飞轮_一体式飞轮_cnc飞轮_整体切削飞轮_山地车飞轮_国产飞轮_自行车飞轮_公路车飞轮_湖南狮璐科技有限公司_狮璐_狮璐科技_狮璐飞轮_SROAD_sroad
> 
> 362g, ~200$


That's us..


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> I kinda want to try that XD cassette
> Is it 12 speed?


Yes, we got XD version of 12 speed. I think we will sell it on Aliexpress later.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> Yes, we got XD version of 12 speed. I think we will sell it on Aliexpress later.


Nice.
By the way.
I'm thinking about buying a Uding 29er fork.
You stated that ZTTO have a suspension factory.
So the Uding forks are your brand?

Do you sell service kits for your forks?
I kind of don't wanna by a fork I can't service later.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Nice.
> By the way.
> I'm thinking about buying a Uding 29er fork.
> You stated that ZTTO have a suspension factory.
> ...


Yes, Uding belongs to us. Our office is in Uding factory. I can sell you the fork, and I can also custom order fork for you. Just tell me the fork you want, travel or the steerer, I will see what I can do.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> Yes, Uding belongs to us. Our office is in Uding factory. I can sell you the fork, and I can also custom order fork for you. Just tell me the fork you want, travel or the steerer, I will see what I can do.


But what about service kits?
Seals, dust caps, oil and so on.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

It looks to me like the "new" Ztto 11-50t can be had here for $80.91 (after $4 coupon for new customers). 
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SUN...e-Parts-Mountain-For-Shimano/32909652090.html

It has the "new" gearing (38-44-50) and appears to have the N/W teeth. Also comes with derailleur extender.

Hey QingchenHuang, how about giving us a similar or better deal for being part of your R&D team?


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> we have XD cassette prototypes. Full CNC from the steel, just like xx1 eagle. We don;t need much pins to rivet the cassette. About Aliexpress's brake pads, all of them are counterfeit products, shimano was already investigating the problem.
> View attachment 1228756





QingchenHuang said:


> Yes, we got XD version of 12 speed. I think we will sell it on Aliexpress later.


Do you have this in an 11-36 or 38 or 40 that will work w/Shimano?

How to order please?

Thanks.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> It looks to me like the "new" Ztto 11-50t can be had here for $80.91 (after $4 coupon for new customers).
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SUN...e-Parts-Mountain-For-Shimano/32909652090.html
> 
> It has the "new" gearing (38-44-50) and appears to have the N/W teeth. Also comes with derailleur extender.
> ...


I am sure they don't have the latest design, we design and manufacture this cassette. There are totally 5 version of this cassette. The first 3 version do not have n/w design. the first 2 version was easy to break. The 4th version have n/w design, but with shifting problems, when you switch to the largest cog, you can't get to the next cog easily. We have to sell the former model cassettes at a very low price to other company to get the wasted money. Developing a new product can be difficult and money-wasting.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> It looks to me like the "new" Ztto 11-50t can be had here for $80.91 (after $4 coupon for new customers).
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/SUN...e-Parts-Mountain-For-Shimano/32909652090.html
> 
> It has the "new" gearing (38-44-50) and appears to have the N/W teeth. Also comes with derailleur extender.
> ...


I can give you a reasonable discount for buying from us, we do have a lot of prototype products. You need to do the testing, analyse the problem and give us the suggestions. You also need to write a review on amazon or youtube.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> Do you have this in an 11-36 or 38 or 40 that will work w/Shimano?
> 
> How to order please?
> 
> Thanks.


I don't think we will sell these cassette by ourselves for now. We found we may have some patent issue with SRAM company. They patented nearly every possible way to make a lightweight cassette. As you can see, even shimano can't do anything about it,too.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> But what about service kits?
> Seals, dust caps, oil and so on.


That is a problem, since our factory sell most of the forks to the whole bike factory. So currently we do not have any service kit sells on the market, but we are working on it for now.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

QingchenHuang, 

Thanks for your input on this thread. I was hesitant to try this cassette but with your presence on the forum and one year warranty, I don’t feel like it’s much of a risk. I’ll be purchasing it on Amazon to be sure to get the latest version and leaving feedback on how it runs with a m9100 rd and chain.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> QingchenHuang,
> 
> Thanks for your input on this thread. I was hesitant to try this cassette but with your presence on the forum and one year warranty, I don't feel like it's much of a risk. I'll be purchasing it on Amazon to be sure to get the latest version and leaving feedback on how it runs with a m9100 rd and chain.


Please wait for several days, I sent 10 cassettes to FBA and it's about to arrive. You can order from our FBA inventory.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Will you update on this thread when the cassettes have arrived so I can order?

Thank you.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> Will you update on this thread when the cassettes have arrived so I can order?
> 
> Thank you.


OK, I will quote you.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> I am sure they don't have the latest design, we design and manufacture this cassette. There are totally 5 version of this cassette. The first 3 version do not have n/w design. the first 2 version was easy to break. The 4th version have n/w design, but with shifting problems, when you switch to the largest cog, you can't get to the next cog easily. We have to sell the former model cassettes at a very low price to other company to get the wasted money. Developing a new product can be difficult and money-wasting.


Will you offer the newest, number 5 version, with any other highest tooth counts besides 50T? Maybe a 36T, 38T, 40T, 42T? Anything lower than 50T?

Will all the cogs only be made of aluminum, or will you also make cogs stronger and more durable with treated [chrome or ?] steel too?

Thanks!


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> Will you offer the newest, number 5 version, with any other highest tooth counts besides 50T? Maybe a 36T, 38T, 40T, 42T? Anything lower than 50T?
> 
> Will all the cogs only be made of aluminum, or will you also make cogs stronger and more durable with treated [chrome or ?] steel too?
> 
> Thanks!


I already told our research team to make 46t cassette, but I think they are more interested in larger cassette, because in south-east Asia countries, which is a big market for us, they obviously think the bigger the cassette the better. So currently we have 11 speed 11-50t 11-52t and 12 speed 11-50t and 12 speed 11-52t.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> OK, I will quote you.


Hey, I am about to order the cassette too from Amazon (the link you provided earlier).

11 speed 11-50T, 5th version lightweight

What is happening, should I wait with my order, or...?

And what derailleur should I use? I am running a full Shimano XT M8000 setup and SGS derailleur.

**Oh wow, posted at the exact same time hahahah what a coincidence


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> We have XD cassette prototypes. Full CNC from the steel, just like xx1 eagle. We don't need much pins to rivet the cassette.


Please note there are 4 questions:

1) When will the 12s 10T-50T cassettes be available? 2) How many cogs will be steel?

3) How many cogs are steel in the new 5 version 12s 11T-50T? 4) What is the type of Aluminum for the other cogs?

Thanks!


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> they obviously think the bigger the cassette the better. So currently we have 11 speed 11-50t 11-52t and 12 speed 11-50t and 12 speed 11-52t.


The 11 speed 11-52t is so stupid.
Only the new XTR, or the Box 2 X-Wide derailleurs can handle the 52t.
Or maybe the Sram Eagle if used as 11 speed.
You will have lots of customers with broken teeth.

Please for the love of common sense
Make a 11 speed 11-48 light version.
There are almost no 11-48 casettes on the market.
You could sell lots and I would defintitely buy one.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

OneTrustMan said:


> Please for the love of common sense
> Make a 11 speed 11-48 light version.
> There are almost no 11-48 casettes on the market.
> You could sell lots and I would defintitely buy one.


+1.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Hey man, I want to order 

I want the latest most updated version you have, if you can say for certain that this one works 

I want to use it with my XT M8000 SGS derailleur and my new Garbaruk Oval 38T chainring and a Shimano 11 spd HG601Q chain, do you think this would work?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> Hey, I am about to order the cassette too from Amazon (the link you provided earlier).
> 
> 11 speed 11-50T, 5th version lightweight
> 
> ...


Sorry for the late reply, I am busy about the business and have not much time for hanging around in BBS. If you want to wait for Amazon FBA inventory, that is ok. You can also order them directly from us. We will give you a refund for all the taxes you paid. The shipping takes about 10 days. M8000 sgs will work. I have the same groupset as you. Everything works fine.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Hi, about the four questions, the first one and second one, I am sorry to tell you, we found we have some patent issue with sram company, so they will stay in prototype phase for the time being. Sram nearly patented every possible way to make a lightweight cassette. We are trying another solution to break the Sram's patents barrier. The 12 speed 10-50t xd cassette currently use a full steel design. But I don't know how our engineer will change the design later. The third question, 12 speed 11-50t have 4 pcs aluminum cogs. They are in one piece and CNC machined from a heat treated 7075 aluminum alloy brick. 12 speed 11-52t cassette got 5pcs aluminum cogs, with same material.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> Please note there are 4 questions:
> 
> 1) When will the 12s 10T-50T cassettes be available? 2) How many cogs will be steel?
> 
> ...


I already replied the questions above, please check.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> The 11 speed 11-52t is so stupid.
> Only the new XTR, or the Box 2 X-Wide derailleurs can handle the 52t.
> Or maybe the Sram Eagle if used as 11 speed.
> You will have lots of customers with broken teeth.
> ...


Well, our engineer though a hanger extension will solve all the problem. But I don't think so. I am not the guy who make the decision. I am only a salesman. I can talk to them and ask them to provide more options, after all, I do not pay for the machine, material and worker's payroll. They make these cassette for a reason, some of our OEM customers asked for bigger cassettes, mainly from Thailand or Philippines, Vietnam or South America region. OEM orders are the mainly income resources for our company. That is why you can see a whole bunch of cassettes in different brands just like our ones all around the world. Retail market is not enough to support a factory. It's hard to running a factory nowadays. I try to talk with them and ask them to make 46t cassette. I think they will do that soon.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> +1.


Please see the reply above, why we do not make smaller cassette currently.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, about the four questions, the first one and second one, I am sorry to tell you, we found we have some patent issue with sram company, so they will stay in prototype phase for the time being. Sram nearly patented every possible way to make a lightweight cassette. We are trying another solution to break the Sram's patents barrier. The 12 speed 10-50t xd cassette currently use a full steel design. But I don't know how our engineer will change the design later. The third question, 12 speed 11-50t have 4 pcs aluminum cogs. They are in one piece and CNC machined from a heat treated 7075 aluminum alloy brick. 12 speed 11-52t cassette got 5pcs aluminum cogs, with same material.


Thank you for your very detailed reply. Now, I fully understand about questions 1) and 2) ...SRAM has patents that protect its 10T Cog Cassette Designs.

Please note below there are 7 new questions to help with ordering and testing your cassettes:

1) Can we help you with "field testing" [by riding our bicycles and providing feedback] with your prototype designs for 10T Cog Cassettes to give you some help and feedback for testing and design improvement for R&D purposes?

2) Can the New Number 5 version of 12s 11-50T be ordered directly from you for a lower price than Amazon, or do you prefer we order from Amazon? 3) What is your direct price? 4) Forms of payment accepted? 5) How do we order directly with you from USA?

6) Are the New Number 5 12s 50T/52T versions fully compatible with SRAM 12s Eagle derailleurs? Will other derailleurs work too?

7) Which 12s chain works best with your cassette? SRAM or KMC or ???

Thank you! You have been very helpful and informative. Excellent work by you.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

I'll just leave this here.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> I'll just leave this here.


I saw your video and sent it to our engineer team to analyse the problem. This type of cassette was already stopped production. About the warranty, we can send you a brand new cassette with a CNC machined Aluminum Alloy carrier.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

uzurpator said:


> I'll just leave this here.


3 Questions for QingchenHuang:

1) Is this the same softer metal material that "failed" at the backside of cassette also found in the New Version 5 cassette?

2) How many miles should we expect to get before replacing these New Version 5 cassettes under normal use -not abuse, crashes, or racing???

3) Does the entire cassette have to be replaced? Or, can specific "wear and tear parts" just be replaced, for example, the aluminum one piece cog section or specific metal cogs or other sections/parts be replaced separately?

Thanks.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> 3 Questions for QingchenHuang:
> 
> 1) Is this the same softer metal material that "failed" at the backside of cassette also found in the New Version 5 cassette?
> 
> ...


Well, you can tell from the video and this is a very old version and we already stopped the production. Only the last spider use a al6061 material. Now we use a full CNC machined spider which is much stronger to replace it. And we don't know what is the reason caused the damage in the video yet. I already sent it to the engineer team and asked for help. About the light-weight cassette, we use a totally different material 7075 aluminum alloy. This is the most widely used material to machine chainrings, cassettes and guns.7075 is much stiffer than 6061 alloy, you can search wikipedia for more information. If you buy from Amazon, we will give you a year's warranty of all the parts you need, if you break anything, we will send you a new part for free.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> I'll just leave this here.


Just send me your address and I will send you a new one with new CNC machined carrier for free.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

If the backplate was made out of 6061 ( difficult to judge when you have 400g of metal on hand ) then it makes sense. CK hub I used previously did the initial damage, and then it just got deeper as I rode.

6061 has roughly half the surface hardness of 7075 - its essentially swiss cheese.

I weigh approx 200lbs ( 92.7kg as of today's morning ) and am pretty persistent when I climb, so quite some torque goes through that 50T cog. The initial damage most likely surfaced when I was towing a child's trailer on top of that. Uphill in the Alps - so ~140kg on tow.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

Hi QingchenHua:

Just so I understand the cassette cog connections correctly for New Version 5: The last 4 cogs are connected to the spider, but all the other 8 cogs, in 12s 11-50T, are ONLY spaced apart by a central ring spacer? Meaning, there is no supporting spider or pin spacers for the first 8 cogs? Correct or ?

Note: the SRAM GX 12s use pin spacers, which makes for evenly spaced cogs with strong, rigid, non-flexing construction, and higher quality more $ versions of SRAM cassettes use a unified one-piece CNC steel cog connectivity. BUT the lowest cost NX does not. I think the SRAM NX may be too flimsy and flexible without the pin spacers.

Edit: I'm told the reason SRAM does this is because of the XD Driver itself. Without the XD Driver I'm told this may not be necessary. Here's what HollyBoni wrote about this issue:


HollyBoni said:


> On GX and up SRAM uses pins or a one piece milled cassette because of XD. XD is almost like the old threaded standard. You need a one piece or pinned cassette (or a hybrid design like e13), or you somehow need to "connect" the cogs together because the freehub body itself can't provide as much support. The cogs need to support each other.
> NX uses the old spline standard, that's why it's not pinned. That's how cassettes have been made for ages. Most of them have some kind of a spider nowadays but some just use plastic spacers and every cog is basically independent. Just because a cassette is not pinned it's not going to wear faster...


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> Well, you can tell from the video and this is a very old version and we already stopped the production. Only the last spider use a al6061 material. Now we use a full CNC machined spider which is much stronger to replace it. And we don't know what is the reason caused the damage in the video yet. I already sent it to the engineer team and asked for help. About the light-weight cassette, we use a totally different material 7075 aluminum alloy. This is the most widely used material to machine chainrings, cassettes and guns.7075 is much stiffer than 6061 alloy, you can search wikipedia for more information. If you buy from Amazon, we will give you a year's warranty of all the parts you need, if you break anything, we will send you a new part for free.
> View attachment 1230809


Okay, I want to order directly from you  (I still get the 1 Yr warranty if I order directly from you?)

Where is the link or how do I order  
Take my money!!


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> Hi QingchenHua:
> 
> Just so I understand the cassette cog connections correctly for New Version 5: The last 4 cogs are connected to the spider, but all the other 8 cogs, in 12s 11-50T, are ONLY spaced apart by a central ring spacer? Meaning, there is no supporting spider or pin spacers for the first 8 cogs? Correct or ?
> 
> ...


No, that is not true, we use aluminum spider , we use only one plastic spacer for whole cassette. We only sell 12 speed 52t cassette under our brand.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> No, that is not true, we use aluminum spider , we use only one plastic spacer for whole cassette. We only sell 12 speed 52t cassette under our brand.


I was asking a question about your design and construction, so I did not know until you replied about its construction what that actually is. Thank you for the information.

Do you sell an 11-50T 12 speed cassette too? Or, only 52T?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> I was asking a question about your design and construction, so I did not know until you replied about its construction what that actually is. Thank you for the information.
> 
> Do you sell an 11-50T 12 speed cassette too? Or, only 52T?


We only sell 52t on aliexpress now.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> We only sell 52t on aliexpress now.


Is this 12s/52T the New Version 5?

Will you sell 12 Speed with 50T or not? You are just out of stock waiting for resupply? When 50T available?

Thanks.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Can you post a link to where I can order directly from you? Not the Amazon link.

I am like waiting for the link, I want to order ASAP.

@QingchenHuang


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> Well, our engineer though a hanger extension will solve all the problem. But I don't think so. I am not the guy who make the decision. I am only a salesman. I can talk to them and ask them to provide more options, after all, I do not pay for the machine, material and worker's payroll. They make these cassette for a reason, some of our OEM customers asked for bigger cassettes, mainly from Thailand or Philippines, Vietnam or South America region. OEM orders are the mainly income resources for our company. That is why you can see a whole bunch of cassettes in different brands just like our ones all around the world. Retail market is not enough to support a factory. It's hard to running a factory nowadays. I try to talk with them and ask them to make 46t cassette. I think they will do that soon.


Okay, and thanks.
A ligth weight 11-46 would also be great.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, about the four questions, the first one and second one, I am sorry to tell you, we found we have some patent issue with sram company, so they will stay in prototype phase for the time being. Sram nearly patented every possible way to make a lightweight cassette. We are trying another solution to break the Sram's patents barrier. The 12 speed 10-50t xd cassette currently use a full steel design. But I don't know how our engineer will change the design later. The third question, 12 speed 11-50t have 4 pcs aluminum cogs. They are in one piece and CNC machined from a heat treated 7075 aluminum alloy brick. 12 speed 11-52t cassette got 5pcs aluminum cogs, with same material.


Is this your ad on AliExpress? Ultralight MTB Bicycles Freewheel 12 Speed XD Cassette Freewheel 10-50T for XD hubs only 364g.......$191.03


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

tom tom said:


> Is this your ad on AliExpress? Ultralight MTB Bicycles Freewheel 12 Speed XD Cassette Freewheel 10-50T for XD hubs only 364g.......$191.03


Well, due to the patent issue, I can only tell you there is no relation with me unless you see a ZTTO logo lol.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

I have ordered the 11-50T cassette from Amazon, as import taxes are covered and 1 year warranty included, which is not covered or included if you order from Aliexpress 

Very excited to see how it performs with my XT M8000 SGS setup. Also going to pair it with a Garbaruk 36T oval fron chainring on my Scalpel Si.

Should have a review ready in 1.5-2 months


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

SebastianSWE said:


> I have ordered the 11-50T cassette from Amazon, as import taxes are covered and 1 year warranty included, which is not covered or included if you order from Aliexpress


Are you certain you are getting the New Version 5 of this cassette? How did or can you verify that?


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

deVries said:


> Are you certain you are getting the New Version 5 of this cassette? How did or can you verify that?


I ordered from Amazon and the seller (QingchengHuang) insisted it was the latest one. I have asked 5 times to get the newest one, so I sincerely hope so


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

I am about to order one from Amazon as well, also based upon QingchengHuang's statements that he'd sent batch of latest versions to FBA. I'll follow up if something goes amiss.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

QingchenHuang said:


> Well, due to the patent issue, I can only tell you there is no relation with me unless you see a ZTTO logo lol.


Then how is Garbaruk able to sell cassette using same design as SRAM?

I also think its a very bad idea to have so many aluminium sprockets just because of weight. Especially the 32t cog seems to have problems with broken tooths because 7075 may be harder than 6061 but is also very brittle and even 7075 is a lot softer than good quality steel. That can be easily checked up by comparing brinell hardness. Pls check up also e13 who are now using steel on their 33t cog.

Also keep in mind that most 11s derailleurs on the market cant handle 50t cogs very well. SRAM is lacking on bandwith and Shimano has too less offset on the upper jockey. So you should consider making custom cages in order to have better shift quality (like Gabaruk does).
Or instead of having 11-50 with shift problems, it would be much better to have a 10-46 cassette. On XD there is an huge gap between 11s offering only 42t to 12s 50t. Most people need bandwith, not granular gearing.

And still a lot people confused about big sprockets forgetting that smaller sprockets offering a lot more bandwith in comparison (10 to 11 is like 46 to 50)

For your XD prototype, it looks on the picture like the biggest aluminium cog would flex a lot because the rivets have big distance to the tooths.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

>> I also think its a very bad idea to have so many aluminium sprockets just because of weight.

I can understand your sentiment, but I'm guessing the majority of potential customers for this product think differently - most people are obsessed with weight, and use it as a major determining factor when deciding on which competing products to buy. There is no recognized measurable unit of "durability" that an all steel cogged version of this could proudly proclaim - weight on the other hand is a clear parameter. Furthermore, I think some other manufacturers make less expensive wide-range 11-speed cassettes with more steel cogs - like sunrace. Actually just looked it up. This one is all steel except for largest cog: SunRace | CSMX8 
I wouldn't be surprised if Ztto made one too.

>> it would be much better to have a 10-46 cassette
Don't think a 10T is possible in the shimano HG hub world.

>> Also keep in mind that most 11s derailleurs on the market cant handle 50t cogs very well.

In my attempt to figure out which derailleur to buy to pair with 11-50T I've read of (on the internet) a lot of people who have it working well with XT long cage and SLX medium cage. Apparently it doesn't work so well with XT medium cage, and this makes some sense when you consider that shimano's stated specs for 1x drivelines indicate it has a lower max cog size than the SLX medium. Some claim SLX medium cage works better than long cage XT. A lot of people seem to have problems with sram derailleurs.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

I am not sayin it has to be all steel (there are already a lot of those available) but especially a 32t cog is a very stupid idea especially if it cannot be replaced. Think with 32t steel it will still not weight a lot over 400g, would be still very light considering 50t. Why everybody falls into those extremes all aluminium only for race usage or super heavy all steel?
The Sunrace MX80 is made with 2 aluminium cogs but has heavier spider and weighs 520g. It should be possible to make something between this.
The weight of bikes was skyrocketing last years, so i dont think weight should matter that much.
I also think its better to have a more progressive gear step instead of linear +6 32-38-44-50, on lower gearing the difference needs to be higher than on lower gears. This results in +19% +16% +14%. Compared to Sunrace or SRAM: 32-36-42-50 +13% +17% +19%.

If SRAM would make an 10-46, 10-48 or 10-50 11s GX cassette, i would not bother with other options, but i am no friend of those expensive 12s short lifetime chains and i dont need that much bandwidth.

An 10t of course has to be made up for XD driver. And replacing 50 with 46 cog will also drop weight in drastic way.

Your assumption about SGS is not correct, there is not much difference. One review even stated that GS is better. It depends also on the hanger but in general the shifting performance is deterioated, some people just dont notice. The problem is not cage length, is it geometry of upper jockey wheel. The sram cage is much better in this regard but too short and lacking bandwidth.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

x-rated said:


> I am not sayin it has to be all steel (there are already a lot of those available) but especially a 32t cog is a very stupid idea especially if it cannot be replaced. Think with 32t steel it will still not weight a lot over 400g, would be still very light considering 50t. Why everybody falls into those extremes all aluminium only for race usage or super heavy all steel?
> The Sunrace MX80 is made with 2 aluminium cogs but has heavier spider and weighs 520g. It should be possible to make something between this.
> The weight of bikes was skyrocketing last years, so i dont think weight should matter that much.
> I also think its better to have a more progressive gear step instead of linear +6 32-38-44-50, on lower gearing the difference needs to be higher than on lower gears. This results in +19% +16% +14%. Compared to Sunrace or SRAM: 32-36-42-50 +13% +17% +19%.
> ...


I am extra pleased for the last 22 months with the SRAM 11 S 10-42.
No need for expensive, extreme, unproven 12 S.
I have no problem with back pedaling, the spacing is ideal.
For 10S i am great with 11-42 on my fat bike and my plus bike.
Out in the woods at minus 35 i want reliable.
A fat bike needs traction and capacity to float + studs for ice, it does not care about 1 extra pound, ask him.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

x-rated said:


> Then how is Garbaruk able to sell cassette using same design as SRAM?


Maybe they just pay Sram for using their design.
That would explain the high prices.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Maybe they just pay Sram for using their design.
> That would explain the high prices.


Well, I don't think they got the same design as sram. We already bought a sample and trying to figure it out. They still didn't send met the product yet, the production time need about 3 months.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

The first version was nearly identical to SRAM design. I dont understand why companies are assuming things instead of asking SRAM directly what can be done.

https://www.garbaruk.com/blog/xd-upd

And then there is also Leonardi and KCNC. e13 changed design completely:
https://www.bike-magazin.de/uploads/tx_saltnews/61/61e1d7e08707ed1169ca5e4ccb47411b3566df99.jpeg


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> >> I also think its a very bad idea to have so many aluminium sprockets just because of weight.
> 
> I can understand your sentiment, but I'm guessing the majority of potential customers for this product think differently - most people are obsessed with weight, and use it as a major determining factor when deciding on which competing products to buy. There is no recognized measurable unit of "durability" that an all steel cogged version of this could proudly proclaim - weight on the other hand is a clear parameter. Furthermore, I think some other manufacturers make less expensive wide-range 11-speed cassettes with more steel cogs - like sunrace. Actually just looked it up. This one is all steel except for largest cog: SunRace | CSMX8
> I wouldn't be surprised if Ztto made one too.
> ...


We do produce the same product as CSMX8 for oem.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

After all the discussion, I called the engineer team for a meeting, asked them to develpe a whole line of light-weight road cassettes. Also, new MTB cassettes with 9 tooth minimum. For both XD freehub and standard shimano freehub, yes, that is right, standard shimano freehub. I think they already came up with a new idea to make things work, I think the structure would be similar to e13's design. We are also redesigning the light-weight steel cassettes to avoid sram's patent. So let's looking forward to the new products in new year. I hope I can find enougn people here to do the testing. After all, lab experiment can't simulate everything happens in real world.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

x-rated said:


> The first version was nearly identical to SRAM design. I dont understand why companies are assuming things instead of asking SRAM directly what can be done.
> 
> https://www.garbaruk.com/blog/xd-upd
> 
> ...


Of course we don't ask sram, do you think they will even tell us?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> >> I also think its a very bad idea to have so many aluminium sprockets just because of weight.
> 
> I can understand your sentiment, but I'm guessing the majority of potential customers for this product think differently - most people are obsessed with weight, and use it as a major determining factor when deciding on which competing products to buy. There is no recognized measurable unit of "durability" that an all steel cogged version of this could proudly proclaim - weight on the other hand is a clear parameter. Furthermore, I think some other manufacturers make less expensive wide-range 11-speed cassettes with more steel cogs - like sunrace. Actually just looked it up. This one is all steel except for largest cog: SunRace | CSMX8
> I wouldn't be surprised if Ztto made one too.
> ...


You can see my post above, we are now developing a cassette with 9 tooth minimum for shimano type freehubs.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

For standard HG freehub, how is this possible? This would be a revolution on the market.
Is this because X12 allows for more room?
SRAM wanted to use also 9t in the beginning but they dropped this idea.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I think most people would rather you stay with 10t minimum.

And, what will the road cassettes look like? 

I'd pay good money for a 10-36 XDR type road cassette.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

https://forums.mtbr.com/drivetrain-shifters-derailleurs-cranks/problems-doval-9-11-cog-943641.html

MTB_Product_Hunan Sroad Technology Co., Ltd.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

QingchenHuang said:


> We do produce the same product as CSMX8 for oem.


a clone or the very same product? do you produce for Sunrace?


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## srmanuel (Oct 31, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> After all the discussion, I called the engineer team for a meeting, asked them to develpe a whole line of light-weight road cassettes. Also, new MTB cassettes with 9 tooth minimum. For both XD freehub and standard shimano freehub, yes, that is right, standard shimano freehub. I think they already came up with a new idea to make things work, I think the structure would be similar to e13's design. We are also redesigning the light-weight steel cassettes to avoid sram's patent. So let's looking forward to the new products in new year. I hope I can find enougn people here to do the testing. After all, lab experiment can't simulate everything happens in real world.


This will be a really nice revolution if it really works for standard Shimano.

I will keep an eye really close in this thread

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

FYI, this item shows Amazon Prime delivered by January 23rd. It looks like they receive it the 19th. I just ordered. 

Thank you Mr. Q.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> Of course we don't ask sram, do you think they will even tell us?


Hahaha



QingchenHuang said:


> After all the discussion, I called the engineer team for a meeting, asked them to develpe a whole line of light-weight road cassettes. Also, new MTB cassettes with 9 tooth minimum. For both XD freehub and standard shimano freehub, yes, that is right, standard shimano freehub. I think they already came up with a new idea to make things work, I think the structure would be similar to e13's design. We are also redesigning the light-weight steel cassettes to avoid sram's patent. So let's looking forward to the new products in new year. I hope I can find enougn people here to do the testing. After all, lab experiment can't simulate everything happens in real world.


A sub 350g, $100, hg driven, 9-46 cassette would be incredible!!! I'd buy 4 of them. I currently run the trs plus and really like it. I would love the same range for the Shimano drivers on the rest of the families bikes.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> Hahaha
> 
> A sub 350g, $100, hg driven, 9-46 cassette would be incredible!!! I'd buy 4 of them. I currently run the trs plus and really like it. I would love the same range for the Shimano drivers on the rest of the families bikes.


If you met any problem when you use the cassette, please contact me and I will do my best to help you. 9t cassette could take some time to do the develop and testing. The estimate release time is June or July.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

srmanuel said:


> This will be a really nice revolution if it really works for standard Shimano.
> 
> I will keep an eye really close in this thread
> 
> Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk


I hope things could work at last, the estimate release time would be June or July, give or take. I will update the progress here.


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## capulina (Jan 1, 2019)

This topic turn very interesting 

Enviado desde mi moto x4 mediante Tapatalk


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

Edit: Posted in wrong location. Removing cause I can't delete this post???


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

deVries said:


> How do you know that 12s chains have a much shorter lifespan than 11s chains? I would think the difference between these two chains 11s vs 12s is minimal??? Is there evidence for this? Please point us to that information, because I would think a lot of people want more durability and longer lasting parts vs saving a few grams in weight.
> 
> AND, let's get real about weight savings too...
> 
> ...


12 speed drivetrain have shorter life have different reason. The chain angle deviation and the specially designed tooth shape by Sram are the main problem. At least this is what our engineer told me. He said Sram use a special design on both chain and cassette to achieve better chain retention, but that would make chain's life be much shorter than 11 and 10 speed chains.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

x-rated said:


> If SRAM would make an 10-46, 10-48 or 10-50 11s GX cassette, i would not bother with other options, but i am no friend of those expensive 12s short lifetime chains and i dont need that much bandwidth.


How do you know that 12s chains have a much shorter lifespan than 11s chains? I would think the difference between these two chains 11s vs 12s is minimal??? Is there evidence for this? Please point us to that information, because I would think a lot of people want more durability and longer lasting parts vs saving a few grams in weight.

AND, let's get real about weight savings too...



QingchenHuang said:


> After all the discussion, I called the engineer team for a meeting, asked them to develpe a whole line of light-weight road cassettes. Also, new MTB cassettes with 9 tooth minimum. For both XD freehub and standard shimano freehub, yes, that is right, standard shimano freehub. I think they already came up with a new idea to make things work, I think the structure would be similar to e13's design. We are also redesigning the light-weight steel cassettes to avoid sram's patent. So let's looking forward to the new products in new year. I hope I can find enougn people here to do the testing. After all, lab experiment can't simulate everything happens in real world.


Why I want durability and longer lasting parts...

I mean, One Cup of Water = 235 grams, that's more than 1/2 a pound, so your water hydration has more affect "weight wise" and "performance wise" than 200 more grams of cassette weenie weight.

I want durability and longer lasting parts and FU to weight weenies. Get a life... Or, are "you" in the Top 10 of mountain bike racers? I don't care, and it has no impact on 99.999% of us that want quality and durability over a couple of hundred grams in weight savings.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

deVries said:


> How do you know that 12s chains have a much shorter lifespan than 11s chains? I would think the difference between these two chains 11s vs 12s is minimal??? Is there evidence for this? Please point us to that information, because I would think a lot of people want more durability and longer lasting parts vs saving a few grams in weight.


I am currently using cheap PC1110 chains which offer only around 1/3 lifespan compared to XX1 11s chain, means same total cost. But on 12s the entry chains are nearly double the cost. I saw the XX1 eagle chain got a lot cheaper, so it seems to make not much sense to use cheaper eagle chains which are half the cost. Only those chains with hard chrome have higher lifespan, the rest is junk. Most people i guess are using GX eagle chains which has similar short lifetime than PC1110 chain. And people making mistake using chains too long, wearing out cassettes much faster. Chains and cassettes are much more expensive on 12s, making a whole more profit for the vendor.



> I want durability and longer lasting parts and FU to weight weenies. Get a life... Or, are "you" in the Top 10 of mountain bike racers? I don't care, and it has no impact on 99.999% of us that want quality and durability over a couple of hundred grams in weight savings.


Thats the opposite of 350g cassette for 100 bucks, because thats made for cheap and has too much aluminium. Aluminium is much cheaper to manufacture because its softer. I suspect also that for instance those cheap SRAM chainrings made of steel arent so cheap in production because they need a special form for pressing them.

Why i dont want 12s has multiple reasons:
- i dont need 500% bandwith but more than 420%
- not requiring granular gearing so much, hell there are even 9s 11-50 out there but SRAM stopped on 11s 10-42 !
- 12s has more narrow sprocket distance = more shifting problems
- eagle chains are thinner, they not only wear faster but also break more often
- 50t cog is increasing back peddle issues and chainline is worse
- derailleur is longer and more prone touching the ground (thats also why i dont like 50t)
- shifting quality of XT 11s is currently unmatched for me (also 2 downshifts at once)
- much higher cost in wear parts, still this is hobby not racing
- SRAM derailleurs are known to have problems (GX upper pulley and NX with parallelogram) and spare parts are expensive/hard to get


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

QingchenHuang said:


> I hope things could work at last, the estimate release time would be June or July, give or take. I will update the progress here.


I hope it will be also more reliable and robust, maybe you understand that good reputation is also important. In germany we have a motto, i cant afford to buy cheap or who buys cheap, buys twice.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> That's us..


From the pictures the largest cog is not narrow wide. Is this an old photo? Or does the XD 10-50 not have a NW 50T cog?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

deVries said:


> How do you know that 12s chains have a much shorter lifespan than 11s chains? I would think the difference between these two chains 11s vs 12s is minimal??? Is there evidence for this? Please point us to that information, because I would think a lot of people want more durability and longer lasting parts vs saving a few grams in weight.
> 
> AND, let's get real about weight savings too...
> 
> ...


Why do you think that weight = durability?

A pinned NX cassette certainly isn't more durable than an XX1 or XO1 cassette. It's just heavier and cheaper.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Why do you think that weight = durability?
> 
> A pinned NX cassette certainly isn't more durable than an XX1 or XO1 cassette. It's just heavier and cheaper.


I'm an XT [Shimano] type buyer, because I won't waste money on the ridiculously higher priced parts "out there" for weight weenies or those "high fashion" expensive "ego parts" to burn money on elitist bike parts. Obviously, the bike industry has played well on attracting people to pay much higher amounts of money for so called high-end parts that aren't really justified for the vast majority of bike riders to really need or take advantage of.

The SRAM NX cassette is low quality and uses a lot of ring spacers with no pins and minimal spider support. It's the GX cassette that is much higher quality and is pinned together, which is way better than the flimsy NX cassette.

Just because using 7075 aluminum on the larger cogs is lighter than steel that does not mean it will be better for wear and durability. ZTTO is already on Version 5 of their cassette partly because the previous versions were not working well enough including broken teeth.


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## deVries (May 19, 2009)

QingchenHuang said:


> After all the discussion, I called the engineer team for a meeting, asked them to develpe a whole line of light-weight road cassettes. Also, new MTB cassettes with 9 tooth minimum. For both XD freehub and standard shimano freehub, yes, that is right, standard shimano freehub. I think they already came up with a new idea to make things work, I think the structure would be similar to e13's design. We are also redesigning the light-weight steel cassettes to avoid sram's patent. So let's looking forward to the new products in new year. I hope I can find enougn people here to do the testing. After all, lab experiment can't simulate everything happens in real world.


I hope there will be more focus on longer lasting and more durable cassettes with less tooth breakage and less chain wear vs weight savings and having the lowest [highest gear] tooth count of 9 teeth. Why?

One thing I read about 9 tooth gearing is it is too extreme for chain life and wear, and it stretches the chain with too high a load that can also cause more breakage too. Going to the extremes of gearing or using 7075 vs steel is not necessarily worth doing if it causes too much wear and tear on the chain or cogs resulting in too high a cost in failures and replacement hassles.

Also, we might consider WHY is Shimano going to a new hub body standard to fit their newer cassettes? I would assume there are too many design limitations with the older "cassette holder" body to justify keeping it for newer cassette designs.

Are there too many limitations with the older Shimano design? SRAM must have thought so years ago by going with XD. What's next?


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

x-rated said:


> - 12s has more narrow sprocket distance = more shifting problems
> - eagle chains are thinner, they not only wear faster but also break more often
> - 50t cog is increasing back peddle issues and chainline is worse
> - derailleur is longer and more prone touching the ground (thats also why i dont like 50t)
> ...


Funny, I only had problems with the Shimano stuff, while Sram has been awesome.
My 12 speed gx chains hold up pretty well and they are great at 11 speed systems.
Much better shifting.

No back pedal issues, because Sram uses N/W on the big cogs and shifting is fast a accurate.

The "too long cage" thing is just nitpicking.
I ride pretty rough rocky stuff on my Capra 27 in park and never had any problems.
I even crashed a few times on my GX Eagle and it still works great.
Only the derailleur hanger bend.

Don't get me wrong.
The XT is also great.
If Shimano would finally make a cage lock and a clutch were I don't have to hop off my bike to engage, than it would be perfect.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

OneTrustMan said:


> Funny, I only had problems with the Shimano stuff, while Sram has been awesome.
> My 12 speed gx chains hold up pretty well and they are great at 11 speed systems.
> Much better shifting.
> 
> ...


How do you engage the Sram clutch wile riding?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> From the pictures the largest cog is not narrow wide. Is this an old photo? Or does the XD 10-50 not have a NW 50T cog?


It's still a prototype.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

deVries said:


> How do you know that 12s chains have a much shorter lifespan than 11s chains?


Don't worry. People said the exact same thing when 9, 10, and 11spd came out.

It's pretty much mandatory to do at this point. People who say they're on 11spd because 12spd chains are less durable most likely said the same thing when they were on 10spd and 11spd came out.

There are these types of dudes that think "new stuff? NAH it sucks! I know because... reasons" then they end up riding it anyways just a few years later.
Or not... And they just stay on 6-7spd and friction shifting. Because you know indexed shifting is just too finnicky.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

But I am on 11 and 10 speed now and they _are_ less durable then 9 and 8 speed. I don't particularily mind, because with chains costing $15 its a moot point, and the benefits of extra gears outweigh the extra wear.

But 1x forces people to ride on extreme chainlines, on alloy front and rear cogs, so wear is significantly faster then on 2x. If I were to buy $400 cassette, I'd worry about that.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

HollyBoni said:


> It's pretty much mandatory to do at this point. People who say they're on 11spd because 12spd chains are less durable most likely said the same thing when they were on 10spd and 11spd came out.


No, the chain itself is not much different but SRAM initially almost doubled the cost for all parts when they went to 12s! (some new NX parts cost even more than GX eagle parts). This stuff is just too expensive in the long term. Maybe some people dont have problems because they change whole drivetrain every year and think they can still get a fortune for their old broken set.
Dont forget there are also a lot of other factors increasing wear like already mentioned.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

x-rated said:


> *No, the chain itself is not much different *but SRAM initially almost doubled the cost for all parts when they went to 12s! (some new NX parts cost even more than GX eagle parts). This stuff is just too expensive in the long term. Maybe some people dont have problems because they change whole drivetrain every year and think they can still get a fortune for their old broken set.
> Dont forget there are also a lot of other factors increasing wear like already mentioned.


I quote you:

_"eagle chains are thinner, they not only wear faster but also break more often"_

But yeah you're right. From now on i'll only ride fixies.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

I wrote "not much different" and not "not different". You have to stop with black/white thinking.
From 11s to 12s there is 0.25mm difference. Not a world, but still contributing to additional wear. If we have problems then we make the whole construction weaker?
Especially cheap chains like GX or NX, lacking surface treatment, wear so fast that far too many people are ruining their cassette. This is nothing new but 12s is the most sensible and cost intensive group.
If we could buy 12s chains and cassettes for prices like we had during 9s, i think nobody would complain. No shifting system is perfect but in terms of costs it is not healthy evolution. It is only good for rich people and vendors.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> Why do you think that weight = durability?
> 
> A pinned NX cassette certainly isn't more durable than an XX1 or XO1 cassette. It's just heavier and cheaper.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Because SRAM and Garbaruk are the only companies that use steel for almost all sprockets. All other vendors are using aluminium to save weight, reduce manufacturing costs and therefore maximizing profit. The average consumer doesnt understand anything else than weight and has believe into the manufacturer to give him good quality. A big company like SRAM however cannot afford to ruin reputation. And smaller companies often dont have ressources to build such complex cassettes like SRAM does.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

x-rated said:


> Because SRAM and Garbaruk are the only companies that use steel for almost all sprockets. All other vendors are using aluminium to save weight, reduce manufacturing costs and therefore maximizing profit. The average consumer doesnt understand anything else than weight and has believe into the manufacturer to give him good quality. A big company like SRAM however cannot afford to ruin reputation. And smaller companies often dont have ressources to build such complex cassettes like SRAM does.


That was kind of my point. My XX1 and XO1 cassettes have been incredibly durable.

Yet they are also very light. How? Great engineering.

This is a problem with bike parts and mountain bikers who buy them, in general. People assume their "burly" handlebars, cranks, etc., are stronger because they are heavy. They could be, or they might just be poorly engineered and heavy as a result.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

x-rated said:


> I wrote "not much different" and not "not different". You have to stop with black/white thinking.
> From 11s to 12s there is 0.25mm difference. Not a world, but still contributing to additional wear. If we have problems then we make the whole construction weaker?
> Especially cheap chains like GX or NX, lacking surface treatment, wear so fast that far too many people are ruining their cassette. This is nothing new but 12s is the most sensible and cost intensive group.
> If we could buy 12s chains and cassettes for prices like we had during 9s, i think nobody would complain. No shifting system is perfect but in terms of costs it is not healthy evolution. It is only good for rich people and vendors.


Ok, so the chains are not much different but the 12s chains wear down much faster and break much more easily. And even though there is like a $2 difference in price between let's say a PC-X1 and a GX Eagle chain they're still too expensive because 10 years ago 9spd chains were cheaper.

Got it, all makes sense!

I'm guessing you haven't had any kind of longer personal experience with 12spd parts yet.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

Dude, a X1 doesnt compare to GX. PC1110 is half of price like NX/GX Eagle chain. And GX eagle casssette is also way more expensive than GX 11s cassette.
The chain itself is not the only factor, it depends in which area it is installed. Like already mentioned: "The chain angle deviation and the specially designed tooth shape by Sram are the main problem."
1x11s isnt all that golden too but somehow more affordable.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

x-rated said:


> Dude, a X1 doesnt compare to GX.


Really?  Explain the differences then. The PC-X1 is the mid level chain. Chrome outers, painted inners. Exactly the same as GX Eagle.



















What's next? Gas prices compared to 15 years ago?

11spd stuff is getting cheaper because of 12spd. A GX level 11spd cassette was more expensive in the past too.
This was true at the 10-11spd jump etc. People made the exact same argument as you over a billion times as new stuff came out. 
But the chain argument doesn't really make sense to me. If you really want to stick to your PC-1110 comparison, how much time does it take to save up that $10-15 difference? Seriously...
Also, Eagle chains run smoother compared to the previous generation, so you're getting an improvement. I don't know how or why. I was pretty skeptical until i've tried it, but it's true. Now i'm using Eagle chains on my 11spd bikes too.

I don't understand the tooth shape argument either. Everyone is moving to narrow wide including Shimano. Personally I haven't noticed any issues, only positives.

A few years from now you will be riding 12spd and you are going to make the exact same argument against the next new thing. Maybe 13spd? Although Rotor is already there.


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## UtahJohn (Feb 6, 2014)

I run a 9-42 10sp, and the 9t gets almost 0 wear, because I am almost never in it (even with a 26t front ring). YMMV


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

UtahJohn said:


> I run a 9-42 10sp, and the 9t gets almost 0 wear, because I am almost never in it (even with a 26t front ring). YMMV


My point exactly! Well, I mean the point I'll make in my next post...

**oops, I misread your post, thought you were saying your entire driveline gets little wear, NVMD **


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Back in the day when mountain bikes were but a dream and 10 speeds TOTAL was the most available (5 sprockets in rear, 2 up front), savvy cyclists knew: Don't ever ride largest sprocket to smallest sprocket, and best to not even get close to this. This also translates to: don't ever use all rear gears from the same front ring. This was when virtually all freewheel cogs were all steel, freewheels cluster were only 24mm wide (vs what, >40mm for 11-speed?), and chains were beefy, yet people were still quite concerned about chainline. Why? Because a well maintained PROPERLY RIDDEN driveline could literally last thousands of miles and many years. Who would want to wear out their parts prematurely if some easy to follow guidelines could greatly extend their life?

The advent and popularity of 3x cranks made chainline a more pressing concern, to the point where it was discussed even amongst more casual cyclists. The "new standard" became less demanding: use all rear gears only when on middle front ring. This new standard is even less demanding when you consider that cluster width was expanding as rear gear count rose above 5. Was this because engineering and materials had improved such that chainline could be more extreme without causing wear? Hell no. It became common to see (casual) cyclists who seldom if ever shifted from the smallest front sprocket and ran all 6, 7, 8 gears in back. Suddenly drivelines were wearing out at a previously unseen rate. The "new standard" was simply an attempt to lessen this extreme damage, but drivelines still wore out much sooner than before. 

While a 3x setup increases the potential for angled chainline, it also increases the ability to consistently maintain a straighter chainline through proper shifting. In a 1x setup you have no such ability, and the more time you spend away from the centerline the more wear happens, period. It's basic physics - the less straight the chainline the greater the wear, regardless of materials or engineering. Materials and engineering can compensate some, but doesn't change the basic fact.

BTW, I'm 1x9 now, soon to go 1x11, so I'm not some old school zealot.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

arficus said:


> Back in the day when mountain bikes were but a dream and 10 speeds TOTAL was the most available (5 sprockets in rear, 2 up front), savvy cyclists knew: Don't ever ride largest sprocket to smallest sprocket, and best to not even get close to this. This also translates to: don't ever use all rear gears from the same front ring.


They were wrong. Propagation of that myth has led us to the current demonisation of the FD to a level where new bikes can't even fit it.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

uzurpator said:


> They were wrong. Propagation of that myth has led us to the current demonisation of the FD to a level where new bikes can't even fit it.


So are you saying a more highly angled chainline does not cause more wear?


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

uzurpator said:


> They were wrong. Propagation of that myth has led us to the current demonisation of the FD to a level where new bikes can't even fit it.


Your statement doesn't make sense to me. If I accept the "myth" of don't run all rear gears from single front ring, then a FD (front derailleur) would be a desirable, necessary thing.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

arficus said:


> So are you saying a more highly angled chainline does not cause more wear?


Not at all. If you rode a 25mm deflected chain all day, every day, you would see a catastrophic increase in chain wear. Something like 20-25% faster in comparison to a "proper" chain line.

However on a properely set-up drivetrain there is, emergently, never going to be a pressing issue to use a high-cross gear. Sporadic use of crossed gears is entirely benign, it shortens the life of the chain by an insignificant percentage.

Most people kill their cassettes ( at least on 2xX ) by wearing out 13-20 section - since that is where most of their riding happens to be.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

So then what component of the "myth" do you have a problem with? The fact I used the words "don't ever" when, as you say, sporadic use doesn't cause much damage?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

arficus said:


> Your statement doesn't make sense to me. If I accept the "myth" of don't run all rear gears from single front ring, then a FD (front derailleur) would be a desirable, necessary thing.


Front shifting is, by its nature, much more troublesome then rear. After all you are shifting a tensioned chain over a large cog difference.

People have elevated the "cross chain" thing to a level, where they tried to use the FD outside of its comfort zone - on uphills, in deep mud or what not. Obviously it worked miserably. All that to combat an issue that is, at most, a mild increase in chain wear ( 15-20% at most, at least from my observations ).

This led to the FD being villified and once a proper "wide range" 1xX drivetrains came about, all people just went to them and accepted problems those bring into the picture.

People moved to 1xX because of the massive increase of percieved ergonomy, since now they don't need to worry about when to use an FD.

_If_ sporadic usage of cross chain, along with delineation of roles each ring plays on a muilti ring was the thing, 1xX would _never_ happen, because an FD would be used a total of six* times each ride.

2xX drivetrain is a 1xX where the 'big ring' covers general riding, and a granny is used solely for climbing - and you switch front gears before longish climbs.

But to use 2xX this way, people have to be aware that they actually can use entire 300% of the range the 11-36 cassette provides them.

*YMMV - but on my mountain voyages I use the FD six to eight times maybe. Essentially, when I see a big hill looming about, I switch at its foot.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Sounds like it was people's irrational response to an otherwise sound principle that you have a problem with. I mean if one believed that riding "cross chain" was bad, overcompensated by overuse of FD but had difficulty with FD, eliminating FD would be irrational solution as it would increase cross chain time.

Anyway, my statement came across more absolute than I meant. Back then in the road bike world, riding daily for several hours, on the same routes, whatever I did got repeated frequently, and generally for longer periods of time than in the MTB world. So what I really meant by "Don't ever ride largest sprocket to smallest sprocket" was don't make this a habit.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

arficus said:


> Sounds like it was people's irrational response to an otherwise sound principle that you have a problem with.


I never liked FDs. Road, MTB, doesn't matter. I like 1x better but it's not a perfect solution. But I don't think the perfect solution includes a chain and a cassette.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Yeah, just a matter of time till a viable, affordable CVT happens.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

HollyBoni said:


> I never liked FDs. Road, MTB, doesn't matter. I like 1x better but it's not a perfect solution. But I don't think the perfect solution includes a chain and a cassette.


Gearbox transmission then, perhaps?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Shadow4eva said:


> Gearbox transmission then, perhaps?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


After the single front ring is a must just switch to some other bullshit like the 7 colors, 1 for each day.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

Shadow4eva said:


> Gearbox transmission then, perhaps?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Probably, after they work out all the kinks, the price goes down and frame compatibility is not an issue...

I just really want to get rid of the chain.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> Front shifting is, by its nature, much more troublesome then rear. After all you are shifting a tensioned chain over a large cog difference.
> 
> People have elevated the "cross chain" thing to a level, where they tried to use the FD outside of its comfort zone - on uphills, in deep mud or what not. Obviously it worked miserably. All that to combat an issue that is, at most, a mild increase in chain wear ( 15-20% at most, at least from my observations ).
> 
> ...


I'm with you.
Even on my cheap normal bikes I tend to strip off the FD 
and a only keep the chainring in the middle which often is a 32t and just go 1x7/8/9

Front derailleurs are annyoing to adjust and noisy.
There is always a gear combination that just won't work well and were the chain rubs on the FD.
Switching gears in front and rear at the same time also often ends with the chain falling off.

I'm thankful that we have such wide range 1x drivetrains and other great stuff that makes riding bikes these days so much fun.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

Neither CVT nor gearboxes are going to happen in cycling on a massive scale.

Gearboxes are always going to be lardy, because every process that makes them lighter also makes derailleur gears lighter.

CVTs, cardan shafts, gearboxes and alike introduce an extra gearing step which reduces overall efficiency. For commuting that might not be an issue, but for racing - its going to be.



> Front derailleurs are annyoing to adjust and noisy.


1. 50T drivetrains are also annoying to adjust - especially the b-gap adjustment is quite annoying. See all the "eagle shifting problems" on these very forums.

2. Not bloody likely. 1xX with those mammoth cassettes routinely run long cage derailleurs which are, by their very nature, noisy. Moreover - you have to deal with heavy cassettes, which cause lots of backlash, and that on high gears makes some extra noise.



> There is always a gear combination that just won't work well and were the chain rubs on the FD.


Usually, yes. But I don't run granny-11 all that much, to be honest. Any rub problems are going to also be on a 1xX when used with an upper chain guide.



> Switching gears in front and rear at the same time also often ends with the chain falling off.


Operator error and adjustment error. But fine - let that be the case. I once stood at the finish line of a local enduro race, two or so years ago. Of the 40 riders I observed around a fourth finished with a chain dragged on the ground because their N/W rings failed to keep it in the mud.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> Neither CVT nor gearboxes are going to happen in cycling on a massive scale.


Then I really hope we are going to receive some alien technology in the future that will help to overcome all of the issues.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> 1. 50T drivetrains are also annoying to adjust - especially the b-gap adjustment is quite annoying. See all the "eagle shifting problems" on these very forums.
> 
> 2. Not bloody likely. 1xX with those mammoth cassettes routinely run long cage derailleurs which are, by their very nature, noisy. Moreover - you have to deal with heavy cassettes, which cause lots of backlash, and that on high gears makes some extra noise.


I must be lucky then 
My 3 Eagle drivetrains were pretty easy and fast to adjust.
In fact I nerver had a derailleur that was so easy to deal with.

They are quite and I have no rub or back pedal issues at all.

First was a XO and the other 2 are GX Eagle.
I used a Sunrace 11-50 on my first GX Eagle which was surprisingly good. 
Smooth shifting, no back pedal issues and really quite.

On my next drivetrain I will use a Sram NX 11spd with a GX shifter and a Sunrace 11-46 cassette.

I doubt it will be bad.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> FYI, this item shows Amazon Prime delivered by January 23rd. It looks like they receive it the 19th. I just ordered.
> 
> Thank you Mr. Q.


Updated shipping for Amazon Prime is two day shipping. 6 left in stock. I'll have it Thursday and already have the 9100rd and chain for it. Should have some initial impressions by early next week.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> Updated shipping for Amazon Prime is two day shipping. 6 left in stock. I'll have it Thursday and already have the 9100rd and chain for it. Should have some initial impressions by early next week.


If there is anything wrong, please let me know it.


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

I've been eyeing this cassette through Amazon as well. 

I'm currently running a Sram GX RD long-cage with a *lot* of B-screw left to likely accommodate for the 50t. 

I see a lot of mention of Shimano RDs to pair with this cassette, but anyone have success with a Sram long-cage? I feel like it would be fine...


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

KGAmoto said:


> I've been eyeing this cassette through Amazon as well.
> 
> I'm currently running a Sram GX RD long-cage with a *lot* of B-screw left to likely accommodate for the 50t.
> 
> I see a lot of mention of Shimano RDs to pair with this cassette, but anyone have success with a Sram long-cage? I feel like it would be fine...


Yes, they will be fine.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

11s crankset Shimano xt works well with gx eagle derraleur/trigger/chain?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Yes，I use m7000 crankset for gx shifters


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

KGAmoto said:


> I've been eyeing this cassette through Amazon as well.
> 
> I'm currently running a Sram GX RD long-cage with a *lot* of B-screw left to likely accommodate for the 50t.
> 
> I see a lot of mention of Shimano RDs to pair with this cassette, but anyone have success with a Sram long-cage? I feel like it would be fine...


On a hardtail you will be fine, but on a fully I would not do it.
The chainstay on rear suspension bikes can shrink and grow while going through the travel.


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

OneTrustMan said:


> On a hardtail you will be fine, but on a fully I would not do it.
> The chainstay on rear suspension bikes can shrink and grow while going through the travel.


What? Eagle is 50t in back and obviously there are no issues there unless your RD isn't long enough or you somehow have a chain that isn't long enough. I was just concerned about clearing the 50 with my specific RD without a special link or cage. But the 50 itself in sure is fine.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> Yes，I use m7000 crankset for gx shifters


@QingchenHuang

Do you know the durability of the largest teeths? 32-38-44-50


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Thiagooo said:


> @QingchenHuang
> 
> Do you know the durability of the largest teeths? 32-38-44-50


Well, that depends on where you ride and how your ride. I can't really give you an exact answer.


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

QingchenHuang said:


> Well, that depends on where you ride and how your ride. I can't really give you an exact answer.


I'm sure durability is hard to define in this case, but I think we all share the same concern and understand what he is asking (and yeah Im sure you get it too).

Most cassettes run the top cog in alloy and that is the one that always wears down and gets beat up (again I'm stating the obvious). I'm guessing we all just should expect nearly that same level of accelerated wear throughout all four of your alloy sprockets.

That's probably a fair statement right?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

KGAmoto said:


> Most cassettes run the top cog in alloy and that is the one that always wears down and gets beat up (again I'm stating the obvious). I'm guessing we all just should expect nearly that same level of accelerated wear throughout all four of your alloy sprockets.


Not really. It is very rare to wear out a cassette in an uniform fashion. It is usual for wear to concentrate on 2-3 cogs. On a bike which is used predominantly on the flats, it is usual to wear out the smallest cogs ( most people kill 17T first, for some reason ). On a bike that has only mountain duties its usually the largest cog that sees most use and alloy ones die first.

However, you can almost predict that all other being equal, wear rate is proportional to tooth count. So - 32T used for 10 hours will show more wear then 50T used for the same duration.

A well optimized cassette would have the largest cog steel, but the next 4-5 large cogs made out of aluminium.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

Its a wrong assumption that wear will happen only on largest and smallest sprockets. I got an 4 year old 10-42 cassette and the wear is relatively even spreaded. It really depends on the geographic location.

The first XX1 cassette had an 42t made of aluminium, it was still somehow ok for that but i think it was still the weakest point for guys doing a lot of steep climbs.
But climb gear moved to 50, i think its acceptable to use aluminium on cogs >40.

Would be really nice to see a 10-46 cassette for HG with 2 aluminium sprockets like:
10-12-14-16-19-22-25-29-34-39-46 
That is in percentage:
+20% +16.7% +14.3% +18.6% +16.1% +13.4% +15.9% +17.2% +15.1% +17.8%
(i also dont know why its so uncommon to use uneven gears >21t, because its Shimano legacy?)

The point about 9t is, its not really possible to distribute evenly gear steps. From 9 to 10 only +11.2% and from 9 to 11t its +22.3% which is too high and i think has no good shifting (if its even possible). So that 9-10 step on e13 cassettes is really a sacrifice on the remaining steps. Given that, the efficiency also is worse and some guys claim its not really feeling "round" due to polygon effect (which is why SRAM dropped it).


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

If ZTTO could make a 9-42 or 9-46 cassette for the Shimano freehub HG body, that would be amazing! Stop complaining. I would be amazed and impressed if there is ANY way of going 9T on the HG body.

Still waiting for my Cassette, it was sent with express by ZTTO from Amazon, but Swedish Postal Service isn't what it used to be hahahahahah The package managed to get here from China in 4-5 days, it's been a week almost in the hands of Swedish customs. Should be here sometime midweek 

Just installed the Garbaruk 36T Oval chainring on my Scalpel, haven't tried it though, as I am doing all the upgrades at the same time, waiting for a new HG701 138 link chain too


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> I would be amazed and impressed if there is ANY way of going 9T on the HG body.


I could be wrong but isn't that physically impossible?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

HollyBoni said:


> I could be wrong but isn't that physically impossible?


Directly, it is. However Rotor 13speed system uses regular HG body, but offsets it to make room for the 10T cog. I bet that ZTTO people want to do the same thing.

You can get some space by using 142x12 hub on a Boost frame.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> Directly, it is. However Rotor 13speed system uses regular HG body, but offsets it to make room for the 10T cog. I bet that ZTTO people want to do the same thing.
> 
> You can get some space by using 142x12 hub on a Boost frame.


So if I understand correctly Rotor uses HG but you still need a new tricked out HG freehub.

The 142 with boost idea sounds interesting. Although unless you have a boost frame, a 142 hub/rear wheel, and i'm guessing some adapters/spacers laying around you still have to buy all this stuff, which to me sounds like as much or more trouble than switching to a different freehub body standard. Or no?


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

It arrived in the mail! 

IT IS HUGE! A picture in comparison with a 180mm rotor disc.

Tried to get the different angles for anyone interested, if you want more photos, let me know


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## srmanuel (Oct 31, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> Directly, it is. However Rotor 13speed system uses regular HG body, but offsets it to make room for the 10T cog. I bet that ZTTO people want to do the same thing.
> 
> You can get some space by using 142x12 hub on a Boost frame.


Let's wait until we see what they do

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

Rotor is using a custom design, i think ZTTO has something in mind like Doval.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> Well, that depends on where you ride and how your ride. I can't really give you an exact answer.


ok...

Are cog 11t and 13t replaceables? They're the same for 11-speed cassettes, right?


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Well, I think I screwed up. I was under the impression both the 9100sgs and 9100gs were 11/12 speed. Turns out the sgs is not and I can't get it to downshift one cog at a time. It upshifts fine but won't downshift. Soooooo I've got to order the 12 speed 11-52 and 12 speed shifter, or eat the cost of the xtr rd and just buy a xt m8000 rd...


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

MXIV424 said:


> Well, I think I screwed up. I was under the impression both the 9100sgs and 9100gs were 11/12 speed. Turns out the sgs is not and I can't get it to downshift one cog at a time. It upshifts fine but won't downshift. Soooooo I've got to order the 12 speed 11-52 and 12 speed shifter, or eat the cost of the xtr rd and just buy a xt m8000 rd...


What shifter are you using?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Thiagooo said:


> ok...
> 
> Are cog 11t and 13t replaceables? They're the same for 11-speed cassettes, right?


Yes


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

MXIV424 said:


> Well, I think I screwed up. I was under the impression both the 9100sgs and 9100gs were 11/12 speed. Turns out the sgs is not and I can't get it to downshift one cog at a time. It upshifts fine but won't downshift. Soooooo I've got to order the 12 speed 11-52 and 12 speed shifter, or eat the cost of the xtr rd and just buy a xt m8000 rd...


The 11sp-ness of the system is set by the shifter (and your derailleur limit settings) so the SGS should work fine. The spacing between gears and the total travel between gears 1 and 11 is the same for either 11sp or 12sp and the difference is whether there's another gear after 11 based on the limit and/or the position of the gear count switch on the XTR-SL-M9100-I 11-12 speed shifter.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

tom tom said:


> What shifter are you using?


m8000


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

b0bg said:


> The 11sp-ness of the system is set by the shifter (and your derailleur limit settings) so the SGS should work fine. The spacing between gears and the total travel between gears 1 and 11 is the same for either 11sp or 12sp and the difference is whether there's another gear after 11 based on the limit and/or the position of the gear count switch on the XTR-SL-M9100-I 11-12 speed shifter.
> View attachment 1233757


I agree, it SHOULD! lol. I looked through the documents again and, yeah, it should work on 11 speed just fine.

It's the m8000 11sp shifter. I didn't do the 9100 because this is on my daughters bike and I like her to have the gear indicator still. Something is funky with it though. I'll give it more effort tomorrow then hand it over to my mobile bike guy if I can't get it.


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## FueLEX8 (May 24, 2008)

Just got the 11-50 cassette.

Anyone has long term reviews on the new design?










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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

FueLEX8 said:


> Just got the 11-50 cassette.
> 
> Anyone has long term reviews on the new design?
> 
> ...


Well, this is a new product, so no long terms review.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

the 9100 (new 11/12 speed XTR) derailleurs and m8000/m9000 ("old" 11sp XT/XTR) shifters are not compatible. You can't mix them. The only 11sp cassette compatible with the new 9100 series XTR shifters and derailleurs that I'm aware of is the Shimano XTR CS-M9110 11-speed cassette. This is a "special" 12sp cassette with the largest gear left off. I don't believe ZTTO or any of the aftermarket folks have offered a similar product. 

QingchenHuang will surely correct me but as far as I've seen these are either 11sp M8000/M9000 compatible parts or 12sp M9100/Eagle compatible with all 12 cogs. (No 10-45 12sp spaced 11cogset part like the XTR CS-M9110.)


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

b0bg said:


> the 9100 (new 11/12 speed XTR) derailleurs and m8000/m9000 ("old" 11sp XT/XTR) shifters are not compatible. You can't mix them. The only 11sp cassette compatible with the new 9100 series XTR shifters and derailleurs that I'm aware of is the Shimano XTR CS-M9110 11-speed cassette. This is a "special" 12sp cassette with the largest gear left off. I don't believe ZTTO or any of the aftermarket folks have offered a similar product.
> 
> QingchenHuang will surely correct me but as far as I've seen these are either 11sp M8000/M9000 compatible parts or 12sp M9100/Eagle compatible with all 12 cogs. (No 10-45 12sp spaced 11cogset part like the XTR CS-M9110.)


LoveMTB has two videos about this. The 9100 shifter with the M8000 RD seems to work pretty well although I don't see a reason to run this combo.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

MXIV424 said:


> It upshifts fine but won't downshift.


That makes no sense, it should affect both ways. 
Not only shifter dictates shifting, also the derailleur has a specific shift ratio which was changed when going from 10sp to 11sp, so i wouldnt be surprised if they changed it for 12sp also.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

x-rated said:


> That makes no sense, it should affect both ways.
> Not only shifter dictates shifting, *also the derailleur has a specific shift ratio which was changed when going from 10sp to 11sp*, so i wouldnt be surprised if they changed it for 12sp also.


True, yet so many people even on this forum happily use mixed 10 and 11spd stuff.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Well, I put the cassette on my wife's XT-m8000 equipped bike and it runs great so far, even backpedaling. It needs a couple more chaninlinks (probably will do a new chain tbh). I'm sure she'll be happy with 8 more teeth for the climbs :thumbsup:

As to the 9100rd with the 8000sl, I wanted the visual indicator because it's my daughters bike and I think she can still benefit from seeing what gear she's in. By no means am I saying that combo "can't" or "won't" work for sure - I'm nowhere near an authority on bike mechanics - I just put things together until they don't work, then take them to my guy to fix hahaha. All I can say is with this cassette, 9100rd, and 8000sl, I can upshift fine all the way through the range, but can't downshift from the 50t to the 44t. If I downshift twice, it will go to to the 38t, but will skip over the 44t. The rest of the gear downshift fine, single or multiple shifts. I spent about 3 hours after everything was installed just messing with adjustments, changing chain length, changing cable tension...no luck.

So where to go from here... First, I'm going to try the 9100 chain on the wife's bike to rule that out as an issue. Then, if the chain is good to go, just go get an 11sp rd for the kids bike. I could do the 12sp 11-52 and get the 9100sl, but I like the range of this cassette (46 would be perfect), and don't really want to deal with 12sp stuff on her bike.

I won't be able to get a ride report until next week... there's this liquid stuff falling from the sky... we only see it every few years in So Cal so not sure it can be ridden in, I don't want to melt


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Since the 9100 series 11 speed is actually a "12 speed, minus a cog", the 9100 chain doesn't like the 8000 chainring. I'm going to sell the 9100rd and chain, and just use m8000 stuff with this cassette. An added benefit is I'll have the same components on two bikes when we go out to races. I moved it back to the kids' bike and other than maybe trying a KMC11SL on it, we should be good!


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## HerrKaLeu (Aug 18, 2017)

MXIV424 said:


> As to the 9100rd with the 8000sl, I wanted the visual indicator because it's my daughters bike and I think she can still benefit from seeing what gear she's in.


I wouldn't give too much to the indicator. I recently installed the XT shifter with indicator and was looking forward to having one after many shifters without. But it limited the mounting options (i like the shifter outboard of the brake) and i ended up removing it (Shimano provides a blank plate for after removal). while i had it on i never really looked at it and it doesn't show the numbers. So you have to guess a bit anyway. Former 9-speed shifter I had had actual numbers written on and I expected something like that. I assume with 11 gears (and one of them having 2 digits) space was an issue.

It is a good shifter, though. The indicator is just not very useful. On a 1x knowing the position doesn't really matter anyway, just shift till you run out. A cadence sensor IMHO is more useful for shifting.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Went to a XT rd-8000-gs and Ztto 11 speed Ti chain. Chain is 262g for 116 links. Everything works properly.

I took my daughter out for a few laps at our normal riding spot and it was flawless.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

*first impressions...*

Got one. Packaged very poorly from amazon - the largest cog was poking like an inch out of side of box.

2010 fisher x-caliber 29er
XT SGS derailleur
SLX shifter (w/new housing and cable)
SLX 3x crank 
32T N/W oval, cheap chinese
HG601 chain
OEM B-screw
no chainguide

All parts new except crank.

Chain length made to have 4 extra links (instead of the usual 2) - derailleur cage looks fine to me on smallest cog, and given how things look and the tension when on largest cog I wouldn't want chain any shorter.

Seems nicely made. The aluminum cog piece (4 largest cogs in one piece) looks like a piece of modern art. There is only spacer, made of plastic.

First impression was how plug-n-play 11sp is - it shifted reasonably well immediately after installation without any adjustments. Might have been just luck of the draw, but it also makes sense that the lower derailleur pull ratio of 11sp would make system less sensitive to small adjustments and able to operate over a broader range of adjustment.

50T is BIG - larger than the 180mm disc in back.

I don't like the look of my chainline when on 50T. Despite that, no backpedaling issues after first ride. This is likely because of the previously mentioned (in thread) NW profile of the newly designed 50T cog. But this isn't problem-free - there's quite a chunk when shifting onto it. With a NW profile you'd think there'd be a 50/50 chance of chain seating properly. That may have been the case when I shifted under no load - but that's certainly not the circumstance under which largest cog is normally shifted to. When under load virtually every shift to 50T is accompanied by a jarring chunk. I'm guessing for some reason the chain is always prone to initially land on the cog with wrong NW orientation and then jumps a link. At least that's how it feels. Time will tell if it is actually causing any damage.

This replaced a 32T/11-34T 1x9 setup that was on bike when I bought it a couple of months ago. I'm not in good shape and was having a hard time in the steeps. Going from 34T to 50T is a fairly large difference. Moving at a slower rate helps, but hoisting my 210LB mass up a hill still takes the same amount of energy overall, and I'm still out of shape - a higher gear ratio is no magic bullet. If I were in shape I imagine the 50T would be useful only on the steepest, most technical climbs.

So overall, it was very easy to get up and running without any special parts like longer b-screw or derailleur extension, no chaindrops when backpedaling, and shifting is very smooth (except to 50T). It does shift noticeably quicker without clutch engaged, but still works fine with it engaged.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

HerrKaLeun said:


> while i had it on i never really looked at it and it doesn't show the numbers. So you have to guess a bit anyway. Former 9-speed shifter I had had actual numbers written on and I expected something like that.


I believe Shimano stopped making indicators with numbers for the higher end models for quite some time.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eplanajr (Nov 7, 2008)

Delete...


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

DELETE ahahah

figured out where the spacer should be lol


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

SebastianSWE said:


> DELETE ahahah
> 
> figured out where the spacer should be lol


Good because I don't remember exactly hahaha. I was thinking it goes in between the aluminum and first steel cog. Is that correct?


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

It is  Because the first steel cog is FLAT, completely flat. All the other steel cogs have "Buil in" spacers, but the first/biggest steel cog don't, I completely missed that hahah


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Haven't installed the chain yet, just wrapped it with a zip tie.

Not sure how this works. I have never adjusted a rear derailleur before, but I watched some YT videos and I think I can do it.

Problem is, even I can tell this is not gonna work :/

I can not put in gear 1 and 2 because then it hits the cassette. As you can see the derailleur is not in proper height to the casssette.

I changed the B screw to something MUUUUUCH longer, still doesn't help.

Are a goat-link the only option?

Sorry for potato pictures, low sugar and camera covered in grease I believe


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

The chain looks super long to me. A shorter, properly sized chain will pull the cage forward and that will move the upper pulley lower.

I'd also try to cut that housing down a bit because it looks horrible although that's mostly Cannondale's fault.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

yeah the chain is 138 links  I am gonna cut it, just need to know where 

But my issue is that I cannot get the pulley/derailleur to align with the biggest cog. I dont know why. When shifting to the lowest gear it only goes to the 3rd biggest cog.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Nevermind, had to tighten the wire.


I am such a NOOOOOOOOOOB! I suck at this, just so desperately want to go out and ride it


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

It’s all good! We’ve all had our first time with a rear derailleur lol. 

It’s a little tricky to get the 50t shifting perfect since we’re using a derailleur that’s not exactly designed for that size sprocket, but it’s very doable for you to accomplish. Watch some videos and look up Shimano’s dealer manual on their website for instructions.

Don’t feel defeated if you have to take it to a shop...bring some goodies and ask to watch and learn. Then go ride!


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## ilfer (Jan 25, 2019)

QingchenHuang said:


> I can give you a reasonable discount for buying from us, we do have a lot of prototype products. You need to do the testing, analyse the problem and give us the suggestions. You also need to write a review on amazon or youtube.
> View attachment 1230414


Hi there, QuingchenHuang,
I read this whole thread reeeeally interested!
I bought a ZTTO 11-50 via german Ebay, I hope it's Version 5 (n/w 50t cog on the back sider). Or is it Version 4 with backpedal issues? It's for my wifes XC-MTB.

As I own a Specialized Levo E-MTB I would be really interested in testing one of your CNC-steel prototypes! The aluminium-cogs of the 11-50 lightweight would be to weak for the torque I think, but I would definitly give the showed steel-CNC-thingie a go. My bike has Shimano-freewheel and a Sram GX 1x11 shifting.
So please contact me, if you want too 

Regards from germany,
ilfer


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> It's all good! We've all had our first time with a rear derailleur lol.
> 
> It's a little tricky to get the 50t shifting perfect since we're using a derailleur that's not exactly designed for that size sprocket, but it's very doable for you to accomplish. Watch some videos and look up Shimano's dealer manual on their website for instructions.
> 
> Don't feel defeated if you have to take it to a shop...bring some goodies and ask to watch and learn. Then go ride!


Sort of managed to adjust my derailleur. Definitely some fine tuning left.

But I also most definitely have backpedalling issues with the chain dropping on gear 1 and 2 (two biggest cogs)... Why that is, I have no idea....

Anyone else with backpedalling chain drop? Any tip I could try?


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## ilfer (Jan 25, 2019)

SebastianSWE said:


> Anyone else with backpedalling chain drop? Any tip I could try?


Did you check the correct alignment of your derailleur hanger?


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> Anyone else with backpedalling chain drop? Any tip I could try?


Do a google search for 1x backpedal... :lol:


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

SebastianSWE said:


> Sort of managed to adjust my derailleur. Definitely some fine tuning left.
> 
> But I also most definitely have backpedalling issues with the chain dropping on gear 1 and 2 (two biggest cogs)... Why that is, I have no idea....
> 
> Anyone else with backpedalling chain drop? Any tip I could try?


I'll say it's just out a adjustment a bit still. Once it's right you won't have a backpeddling issue.

My worry wouldn't be that I can't backpedal, as I don't know the real need to backpedal more than a quarter turn or so, but that the chain is not full seated in the cog, or that is side loading the cog, and I don't want either of those things on an aluminum 50t cog.

If it would be helpful to you, dm me your email and I can send some video of me putting my wife's bike back together today. I can include setting up the derailleur as if is new.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> I'll say it's just out a adjustment a bit still. Once it's right you won't have a backpeddling issue.
> 
> My worry wouldn't be that I can't backpedal, as I don't know the real need to backpedal more than a quarter turn or so, but that the chain is not full seated in the cog, or that is side loading the cog, and I don't want either of those things on an aluminum 50t cog.
> 
> If it would be helpful to you, dm me your email and I can send some video of me putting my wife's bike back together today. I can include setting up the derailleur as if is new.


omg, that would AMAZING! Please upload it to youtube  I Would love to see it!!


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Okay spent another few hours on the derailleur and youtube  Got it shifting pretty well now 

I somehow, without knowing, fixed the backpedaling on the second biggest cog   The 50T is still falling off...

Shifting good enough for me to go and take it for a ride tomorrow I believe  

Here are some photos.



Spoiler


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

HollyBoni said:


> Do a google search for 1x backpedal... :lol:


I did. LOTS of people complaining... Some say it all 1x11 drivetrains fail backpedalling, but that is not true. 11-42 is easy peasy, but 11-50T is more difficult and the numbers of failure is definitely a lot higher, not many have tried 11-50 either.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> I did. LOTS of people complaining... Some say it all 1x11 drivetrains fail backpedalling, but that is not true. 11-42 is easy peasy, but 11-50T is more difficult and the numbers of failure is definitely a lot higher, not many have tried 11-50 either.


It can be true. Depends on a few things. For example chain line, chainstay length, or sometimes even the chain itself. LoveMTB has a video where he compares a few chains, it's pretty interesting.

Eagle stuff goes up to 50T and it's 12 speed so that makes things even worse. SRAM uses narrow wide on the 42T and 50T but interestingly I don't think the NX cassette has any narrow wide cogs.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

From what i read and heard, back pedaling issues are due to a bad chainline. Maybe 1 spacer extra on left side? Maybe on right side? maybe 1 less spacer. My 10 speed 11-42 is fine and so is my 11 speeds 10-42. Many do convert to a single front ring and generate their problems. Good luck finding the sweet spot.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

33red said:


> From what i read and heard, back pedaling issues are due to a bad chainline. Maybe 1 spacer extra on left side? Maybe on right side? maybe 1 less spacer. My 10 speed 11-42 is fine and so is my 11 speeds 10-42. Many do convert to a single front ring and generate their problems. Good luck finding the sweet spot.


I don't have any spaces on my cranks. Or it came with one large (10mm?) on one side and maybe 5-6mm space on the other sides. I don't think there is possible to add/remove spacers due to the design.
My chainring is extremely tight to the frame, but I could go 0.5-1mm MAX without scratching up the frame


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

HollyBoni said:


> It can be true. Depends on a few things. For example chain line, chainstay length, or sometimes even the chain itself. LoveMTB has a video where he compares a few chains, it's pretty interesting.
> 
> Eagle stuff goes up to 50T and it's 12 speed so that makes things even worse. SRAM uses narrow wide on the 42T and 50T but interestingly I don't think the NX cassette has any narrow wide cogs.


Yeah my chainline sucks  But nothing I can do about it.

I mean the Scalpel Si is already complicated as is with offset on the backwheel and front cranks 

So even if somebody with the exact same drivetrain make it work on another bike, it could most likey fail on my bike.

I can probably live with the backpadelling, the 50T will only be used for climbing stuff anyway.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Judging by cage angle when on 11T I'd say your chain is too long. That will make your chain slap around. Also, with shorter chain there might be bit more chain tension when on 50T, which might help with retention. Look at my pics when on 11T - that's with chain 2 links longer than "normal" formula would dictate.

Also, you say you only have room to move chainline like 1mm? Seriously? Either way, do it. Only costs as much as a few spacers and might make larger diff than you'd imagine.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Update on initial impresions:
After a few more miles shifting onto 50T has smoothed out a bit. While never buttery smooth, not every shift onto 50T is accompanied by a jarring chunk. Still no back pedaling issues, despite the fact I think my chainline is a few mm's off in the unfavorable direction.

Also...
While planning to make this conversion I'd read Singletrack review of sunrace 11-50T, and they'd clearly indicated a mid cage shimano (XT) worked much better than a long (SLX). Yet I'd also read some accounts where people were experiencing the opposite, and saw that sunrace and ztto were recommending long. So I was really torn on whether to get long or mid cage. Although I haven't tried mid cage, I'm glad I went with long. With long cage I feel I'm already pushing the boundaries of slack cage angle/chain tension on 11T and taught cage angle/chain tension on 50T. With mid cage this would only be worse.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

SebastianSWE said:


> ....
> My chainring is extremely tight to the frame, but I could go 0.5-1mm MAX without scratching up the frame


Show us a closeup pic of where teeth are closest to frame. I'm assuming that is at rear of chainring, against a tapered section of chainstay. Going to smaller chainring would make more clearance. Probably just 2 teeth would give enough.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

arficus said:


> Show us a closeup pic of where teeth are closest to frame. I'm assuming that is at rear of chainring, against a tapered section of chainstay. Going to smaller chainring would make more clearance. Probably just 2 teeth would give enough.











It's a 36T Oval, maximum the frame can take.

There is not way in hell I would go down in size  I paid about 80 Euro for this chainring and I need it to go fast. Smaller chainrings are way too slow downhill.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

36T oval - that's why clearance is small. But still, that looks like much more than 1mm. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but with good quality properly adjusted BB there should be so little play that chainring can be very close frame without hitting it. How close?

I assume you have external bearing BB? I get the impression those have less play than internal bearing setup. Mine seems tight as a drum - I'm pretty sure the edge of chainring deflects <1mm.

****oops. I wasn't looking at your pic properly, with proper perspective. I still think it's more than 1mm, but still ain't much.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Well I took some video but I don’t have a YouTube account...I’ll see about setting one up later tonight. 

I now have two of these cassettes installed and running perfect; one on a full suspension with a KMC11SL chain in a XT long cage “sgs” rd, and the other on a hardtail with a Ztto 11 speed Ti chain in a XT medium cage “gs” rd.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

arficus said:


> 36T oval - that's why clearance is small. But still, that looks like much more than 1mm. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but with good quality properly adjusted BB there should be so little play that chainring can be very close frame without hitting it. How close?
> 
> I assume you have external bearing BB? I get the impression those have less play than internal bearing setup. Mine seems tight as a drum - I'm pretty sure the edge of chainring deflects <1mm.
> 
> ****oops. I wasn't looking at your pic properly, with proper perspective. I still think it's more than 1mm, but still ain't much.


I went ahead and measured space between fram and chainring it is exact 1 millimeter... This chainring is special made for this bike and frame  It has a 6mm offset due to the unique frame. (Garbaruk chainring for Cannondale AI).

Here are a bad picture of the distance between chain and pulley cage, about 5mm or so.

And also picture of the chainline, which is horrible for the big cog... I mean I had 11 speed 11-42 before, that was working butter smooth.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> Well I took some video but I don't have a YouTube account...I'll see about setting one up later tonight.
> 
> I now have two of these cassettes installed and running perfect; one on a full suspension with a KMC11SL chain in a XT long cage "sgs" rd, and the other on a hardtail with a Ztto 11 speed Ti chain in a XT medium cage "gs" rd.


Do you have a GMAIL account? Then thats the same for youtube, otherwise it takes a minute create one 

I really would appreciate any video at all


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

your chainline looks no worse than mine. But your cage is totally flat when on 11T, looks like chain is almost hitting upper pulley. Is there a reason you want your chain so long?


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

For 1x chainrings 6mm is the standard non boost offset. 

I agree, chain looks too long.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Here you go.

https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCEADerFzWXo_heCAw-lHR4A


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Apologies for letting the freehub hum while I’m talking...


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> Here you go.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCEADerFzWXo_heCAw-lHR4A


YOU ARE A-M-A-Z-I-N-G!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is better than any rear derailleur guide tutorial on youtube! WOW

DUUUUDE this soo goood, thank you


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## iliketexmex (Oct 29, 2016)

Following


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Although, I feel that I have done everything correct. Done the same adjustments as you mentioned in the video  My cage/jockey wheels are lined up exactly to the 50T cog, any further out and it will put the chain into the spokes.

Only thing I could do is shorten the chain from 118 to 116 links. But it's not touching the pulley/cage on 11th gear so I will leave it for now.

But wow that was buttersmooth


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

You could take out a couple links, but if you think you’re close, then yeah, go ride it and see if you still have a backpedal issue. 

I’m hoping to get out tomorrow. 3/5ths of the family is a bit sick so we’ll see how everyone is feeling in the morning


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Don't know where this should be posted, so I'll just do it here. If anyone wants a crazy deal on 34T NW 104BCD check out https://www.ebay.com/itm/264132166922
$5.75 w/US shipping, made in taiwan
But better act quick - the seller is changing/raising prices as they sell. Last night they were $4.99. I bought two 30T for $7.59 a few days ago, but seller has since doubled price to $15 because they sold a few. I'm impressed with mine - a notch above chinese deckas/snails, and less than half the price.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Okay so I removed 2 links, should be 116 now. What a bummer, paid 13 bucks extra to get the 138 link. As I had already bought a 116 link chain first but because a guy I ride with once a month said I had to get the longer one... He also said I should do it all over and mount the gear cable right. Supposed to be on the outside, wired underneath the rear frame, as it was from factory. The way I have done is mounting it internally the last 40 cm inside the rear frame hanger (correct word is?) which apparently is made for Dix2 electrical setup. And that now it will make my derailleur wear out faster and not be able to move all the way back and forth, up and down. I will leave it as it is for now, I really don't see the problem.

Made some minor minor minor adjustments to the derailleur. I think I am getting hang on this now, what the screws do and how they react  Feels great!! Couldn't test it outside today, it's a snowstorm haha

If the chain gets on the cog correctly, I can backpadell slowly for a few seconds before it drops. Used to drop instantly, now, if I am lucky, it doesn't. My chainline really sucks so I am happy as is.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

ilfer said:


> Hi there, QuingchenHuang,
> I read this whole thread reeeeally interested!
> I bought a ZTTO 11-50 via german Ebay, I hope it's Version 5 (n/w 50t cog on the back sider). Or is it Version 4 with backpedal issues? It's for my wifes XC-MTB.
> 
> ...


Hi, we do not sell products on ebay offically. So I can't be sure where did they get the product from. Maybe resell it from our b2b website.I don't know which type do they have, maybe version 2 or 3. We also do not have any warranty for them. We provide warranty for 3 stores from Aliepxress, ZTTO Bike store, ZTTO offical store and 100 bike store. Also Amazon US and Amazon CA. We will open our Amazon EU store in this year. 
I will contact you if I need someone to do the testing.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> Okay so I removed 2 links, should be 116 now. What a bummer, paid 13 bucks extra to get the 138 link. As I had already bought a 116 link chain first but because a guy I ride with once a month said I had to get the longer one... He also said I should do it all over and mount the gear cable right. Supposed to be on the outside, wired underneath the rear frame, as it was from factory. The way I have done is mounting it internally the last 40 cm inside the rear frame hanger (correct word is?) which apparently is made for Dix2 electrical setup. And that now it will make my derailleur wear out faster and not be able to move all the way back and forth, up and down. I will leave it as it is for now, I really don't see the problem.
> 
> Made some minor minor minor adjustments to the derailleur. I think I am getting hang on this now, what the screws do and how they react  Feels great!! Couldn't test it outside today, it's a snowstorm haha
> 
> ...


I think you didn't adjust it properly. I tell it from the noise of the chain. I think the L screw might be too tight.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Long time no see, guys, I was just busy about sending products to FBA and keep an eye on product developing. I have few new samples to show you guys. The new members of our Aluminum lightweight cassettes, we got 11 speed 11-46t cassette for MTB and 11 speed 36t for CX and 11speed 11-28t 25t for road bikes.You will see these products available in about 2 months. We are also developing single speed conversion cassette kit for HG splined hub.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Well, somehow I can't upload the images and I don't know why the website keep tells me upload failure...


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> Well, somehow I can't upload the images and I don't know why the website keep tells me upload failure...


Upload to imgur and attach/insert the image address with the image button :)


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> Upload to imgur and attach/insert the image address with the image button :)[/QUOTE]
> I will upload the images later. It's midnight in china now. I need to rest.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

QingchenHuang said:


> Long time no see, guys, I was just busy about sending products to FBA and keep an eye on product developing. I have few new samples to show you guys. The new members of our Aluminum lightweight cassettes, we got 11 speed 11-46t cassette for MTB and 11 speed 36t for CX and 11speed 11-28t 25t for road bikes.You will see these products available in about 2 months. We are also developing single speed conversion cassette kit for HG splined hub.


Somewhat intrested. Just tell me what is the sequencing of those cassettes. If that 11-36 is going to be the same as the one you already offer, just lighter, then I'll pass.


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## cokratex (Jul 28, 2012)

SebastianSWE said:


> Okay so I removed 2 links, should be 116 now. What a bummer, paid 13 bucks extra to get the 138 link. As I had already bought a 116 link chain first but because a guy I ride with once a month said I had to get the longer one... He also said I should do it all over and mount the gear cable right. Supposed to be on the outside, wired underneath the rear frame, as it was from factory. The way I have done is mounting it internally the last 40 cm inside the rear frame hanger (correct word is?) which apparently is made for Dix2 electrical setup. And that now it will make my derailleur wear out faster and not be able to move all the way back and forth, up and down. I will leave it as it is for now, I really don't see the problem.
> 
> Made some minor minor minor adjustments to the derailleur. I think I am getting hang on this now, what the screws do and how they react  Feels great!! Couldn't test it outside today, it's a snowstorm haha
> 
> ...


Have you tried letting the air out of the shock and bottoming out the rear travel? Some frames increase the chainstay length a lot. That could damage your derailleur if the chain is too short. I know since have tried that when riding! Not recommended! 

Skickat från min SM-G950F via Tapatalk


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 28 32 36, I think it stays the same.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

QingchenHuang said:


> 11 13 15 17 19 21 23 25 28 32 36, I think it stays the same.


That is pointless. Too few gears at the top end, too many at the bottom. Try:

11-12-13-14-16-18-20-23-26-30-36


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

SebastianSWE said:


> View attachment 1235337


Dat B-Gap. This is going to be shifting like garbage once the chain gets somewhat worn out.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

When I did initial installation I just roughed B adjustment by eye, and then things shifted so well I just left it. Went from 32T -> 30T today, and took opportunity to inspect closer. Gap was like 4mm too wide. I adjusted it, and immediately had chain dropping with backpedaling. 

If it works better any harm in running B gap wide?

I suppose the problem could've been I didn't adjust chain length for going down to 30T, maybe the slightly less chain tension, but I somehow doubt it.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

uzurpator said:


> Dat B-Gap. This is going to be shifting like garbage once the chain gets somewhat worn out.


You mean from the chain being so slack?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

arficus said:


> You mean from the chain being so slack?


B-Gap is the distance between the tension pulley and the cassette cog. On the 11 cog in your example it is over 4-ish links. Once your chain stops being so new and stiff, it will require overshifting to go the next cog.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

You mean I need a longer chain? I just shorten it 2 links cause everyone said it was too long  Can't do any shorter on the B-screw as it will hit the cassette on 1st gear.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

QingchenHuang said:


> I will upload the images later. It's midnight in china now. I need to rest.


How about an cassette extender 50-43-37 in 7075 alloy like on 11-50 cassette but without other sprockets. Could be shipped for low price. The smaller sprockets are available in many places. I think you could sell bucket loads of these.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Mr. Q, what is the weight of the 11-46? 

I thought the 50t would be too much for the 27.5 wheels on my daughters bike but after watching her mountain goat up some steep climbs yesterday, I think it’s pretty good. 

Also, I’ll make a bold statement after riding around on my wife’s bike yesterday...her Ztto shifts crisper and more precise than my E13 TRS...


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

uzurpator said:


> B-Gap is the distance between the tension pulley and the cassette cog. On the 11 cog in your example it is over 4-ish links. Once your chain stops being so new and stiff, it will require overshifting to go the next cog.


While what you're saying makes complete sense in theory, I question how applicable it is in real world, whether there's enough lateral play in 1.5 inch or so of chain to make difference. I see lots of bikes where gap is very large when on smallest cog. I've never paid this gap much mind, but my new setup has pretty big gap, so guess I will know within a few hundred miles...


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> Long time no see, guys, I was just busy about sending products to FBA and keep an eye on product developing. I have few new samples to show you guys. The new members of our Aluminum lightweight cassettes, we got 11 speed 11-46t cassette for MTB and 11 speed 36t for CX and 11speed 11-28t 25t for road bikes.You will see these products available in about 2 months. We are also developing single speed conversion cassette kit for HG splined hub.


Any news on the 11-46 yet?


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

from other thread:
e13 is creaking like yours and the 3rd cog (from large alu cluster) got worn at ~4000 km. "

Sprocket size 33t, almost same as 4th cog from ZTTO 32t. Now you see why small alloy sprocket is not good.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

4000km is about 2500 miles and we do 6-8 miles per ride...but I’ll round up to 10. So, getting to ride an average of twice a week, this cassette should last 2.5 years! Considering I paid 40% on the Ztto compared to the e13, I don’t see the negative. 

By no mean is this the “best” cassette out there, it just fit a niche that I was looking for:

Lightweight- 360 grams is 50-60 grams heavier than the TRS plus, and 20-30 heavier than top end eagle; but, it’s 100 grams lighter than 11-46 XT, and a few hindered grams lighter than Sunrace. 

Wide range - 454% is less than the 500% of eagle, the 511% of e13, and the same as sunrace. But also better than the 418% of XT. 

Inexpensive - At $100, it’s significantly less expensive than top end cassettes mentioned here, but only $30-$40 more than the XT or Sunrace. 

Warranty - I’m not even sure if anyone else offeres a no questions warranty drivetrain products, so they stand alone here...with the caveat of being an unknown business who could stop offering these products or cease to exist overnight. 



If someone is shopping for a cassette with goals in mind other than those benefits, then I’m not sure why you would pick this product


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

6-8 miles is not a lot.

In my country i can get a GX Eagle cassette for 115$. If i buy ZTTO cassette it costs me 100$ + 20% custom duty, this means it costs even more. 

SRAM delivers more range, only 100g more with just one aluminium sprocket that cassette has also proven reliability. But its 12 speed.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

x-rated said:


> 6-8 miles is not a lot.


Haha, I think for a 10 year old girl it's pretty good lol. Her races are only about 20 minutes for her age group so I try to do shorter training rides at a faster pace to keep it interesting...but that wasn't my point exactly.



x-rated said:


> In my country i can get a GX Eagle cassette for 115$. If i buy ZTTO cassette it costs me 100$ + 20% custom duty, this means it costs even more.
> 
> SRAM delivers more range, only 100g more with just one aluminium sprocket that cassette has also proven reliability. But its 12 speed.


I wouldn't imagine someone with an xd driver converting back to hg just to run this product.

It sounds like you've got something that works well for you at a price that you like! Enjoy your riding!


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

I am still loyal to 11 speed, its a shame that SRAM ignores it


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)




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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

even smaller alloy sprockets :skep:


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## ilfer (Jan 25, 2019)

x-rated said:


> even smaller alloy sprockets :skep:


Looks like STEEL to me...!


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

the upper one


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

They both look like steel to me.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

arficus said:


> While what you're saying makes complete sense in theory, I question how applicable it is in real world, whether there's enough lateral play in 1.5 inch or so of chain to make difference. I see lots of bikes where gap is very large when on smallest cog. I've never paid this gap much mind, but my new setup has pretty big gap, so guess I will know within a few hundred miles...


If a theory is not applicable to real world, then it is a really, really bad theory  Anyhow - B-gap is the issue why all those extended cassettes worked like crap and why Eagle is so sensitive to adjustment. The thing is, that Shimano 11 speed mechs are really built around 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes.

That being said - I run the Deore 6000 on an 11-50 cassette and it was really annoying to adjust once the chain got a bit worn out.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Any news on the 11-46 yet?


Please see the pictures


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> They both look like steel to me.


hybrid, steel and alloy.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> View attachment 1236079
> View attachment 1236077


Can you weigh the 11-46 when you get a chance


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

arficus said:


> They both look like steel to me.


looks like 11-32 with 3 biggest cogs in alloy and the lower one is 11-46 with 4 biggest in alloy. So this is even less reliable than the 11-50.
But i am sure people will buy it because its light.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

I hope this is not getting off topic but I'm still deciding on either 11-50t 1x11 or 10-50t 1x12 (SRAM) later. 

If I get this ZTTO cassette, and the rest of the Shimano 1x11 drivetrain, do I need an extender or will any Shimano 11-speed SGS rear derailleur handle 11-50t?

Also, as you guys know, wheelsets are different for SRAM 10-50t because you need an XD driver. Here are the two options I realistically have below for my budget, which one do you think is better?

Option A: 11-50t Sunrace or ZTTO cassette, total 1x11 drivetrain w/this cassette is around $400 total, and around 4.0 to 4.2 lbs total. Found a nice deal on a Sunrise carbon wheelset, 11-speed for $360, 3.60 lbs. Drivetrain and wheelset together $760 and around 7.7 lbs total.

Option B: 10-50t SRAM GX groupset with cassette is $450, 3.85 lbs. Carbon wheelsets with an XD driver are pretty expensive, so I'd settle for an aluminum RaceFace Aeffect XD wheelset for around $375, 4.85 lbs. Drivetrain and wheelset together $825 and 8.7 lbs total. 

$65 more and 1 lb more weight for 10% more range with the SRAM GX 1x12 & aluminum XC driver wheelset seems worth it, or not?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

richj8990 said:


> I hope this is not getting off topic but I'm still deciding on either 11-50t 1x11 or 10-50t 1x12 (SRAM) later.
> 
> If I get this ZTTO cassette, and the rest of the Shimano 1x11 drivetrain, do I need an extender or will any Shimano 11-speed SGS rear derailleur handle 11-50t?
> 
> ...


You can buy nothing and be happy with your savings.
I do not waste $$ but deciding when focussing too much on $ you feel good 1 day.
I buy quality but my budget decides what year.
Do you need 500% range?
Ask yourself it is your decision.
Nobody needs to pay for carbon.
2 of my bikes are 20 speeds one is SRAM 10-42 11 S and that is plenty for me, i like to climb and the top speed is not my focus.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Well it depends on where you live I guess.
Sadly I need to drive at least 70 km to get a good taste of real mountain.
But hell, those hikers paths are insane to climb. It's like riding up a downhill trail.
I need at the very least a 32 chainring and the 50t in the back to barely made it.

It's challenging but also fun.
And no it's not forbidden to ride those paths on a bike.
The hikers always look if a have a ebike though.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Well it depends on where you live I guess.
> Sadly I need to drive at least 70 km to get a good taste of real mountain.
> But hell, those hikers paths are insane to climb. It's like riding up a downhill trail.
> I need at the very least a 32 chainring and the 50t in the back to barely made it.
> ...


Basically i have the 12 S but the easiest is missing so i use a 28 in front and it is like the fastess is missing. My fatbike is even easier so it is to each person to find what works for them.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

Any news of the durability about this cassette?


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Thiagooo said:


> Any news of the durability about this cassette?


The latest version of it has only been available a short time, doubt anyone has many miles on one. You'll probably need to wait a few months.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

arficus said:


> The latest version of it has only been available a short time, doubt anyone has many miles on one. You'll probably need to wait a few months.


and the first version? This Topic is from 2017


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

How long are we talking until shifting suffers? 100km? 1000km?

We're talking about gap when on smallest cog, but it is the B-screw adjustment that happens on largest cog that is responsible this happening, right?

If gap is big enough to cause issues on 11-50T, wouldn't it also on 11-46T? Seems like even 11-42T might cause a big gap.



uzurpator said:


> If a theory is not applicable to real world, then it is a really, really bad theory  Anyhow - B-gap is the issue why all those extended cassettes worked like crap and why Eagle is so sensitive to adjustment. The thing is, that Shimano 11 speed mechs are really built around 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes.
> 
> That being said - I run the Deore 6000 on an 11-50 cassette and it was really annoying to adjust once the chain got a bit worn out.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Okay so I got the chance to try my new setup for the first time 

It was only for 14km on snow, so couldn't go very fast or any other testing. Cold as hell too hahaha

But damn, it is shifting perfectly from that short experience. Up and down without any issues at all. 

No backpadelling issues whatsoever on the 50T cog  I think that, as soon I get on the bike and go forward, the backpadelling issue is not a problem at all. It isn't a huge problem on the test bench either, but it have fallen off on the test bench.

So I guess I have managed to adjust the derailleur pretty well, I am honestly impressed by myself as it was the very first time. It works great! The black paint is coming of really fast on the biggest and second biggest cog, but who cares? 

It's way too cold and snowy around here in Sweden to do any proper testing, like going really fast or take it to the woods, but I would definitely say this cassette is AWESOME!. And if something was to happen, I know how and have the tools to change the cassette like really fast, and no adjustments to the derailleur is needed if changing to an identical one.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Good! Glad you got it worked out 👍


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> If a theory is not applicable to real world, then it is a really, really bad theory  Anyhow - B-gap is the issue why all those extended cassettes worked like crap and why Eagle is so sensitive to adjustment. The thing is, that Shimano 11 speed mechs are really built around 11-40 and 11-42 cassettes.
> 
> That being said - I run the Deore 6000 on an 11-50 cassette and it was really annoying to adjust once the chain got a bit worn out.


So are you saying I should stick to 2x, even if it's 2x11? I'm sure this has been asked before but who makes a rear derailleur that is proven to shift well above 42t? And what drivetrains is it compatible with?


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

depends also how dropout is designed (length and angle of stop). Standard 11s derailleurs handle 46t very well, everything above is already a compromise in shifting quality.
SRAM derailleur is better suited for big tooth changes but lacking overall bandwith because of too short cage. Shimano has longer cage already on GS but was not designed for only 1x drivetrain, the upper pulley placement is not optimal. In both cases there are custom cages available from Garbaruk or other vendors. Its also possible to use 12s SRAM derailleur with 11s setup but the GX one is not very reliable.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

richj8990 said:


> So are you saying I should stick to 2x, even if it's 2x11? I'm sure this has been asked before but who makes a rear derailleur that is proven to shift well above 42t? And what drivetrains is it compatible with?


My solution is i have 2 bikes 2x10 and 1 bike 1x11 SRAM XO1 10-42. It is similar to the 12 S except for the 50. Since i enjoy climbing a small enough front ring 28 for me is my ideal light weight transmission. There is no reason to throw good money until a product is proven. And i generaly buy used so i can afford quality with a reasonable budget.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

richj8990 said:


> So are you saying I should stick to 2x, even if it's 2x11? I'm sure this has been asked before but who makes a rear derailleur that is proven to shift well above 42t? And what drivetrains is it compatible with?


_IF_ we were in the realm of reason, we would have stayed on 2x9, because that was when drivetrain peaked. Since then manufacturers have lost their way.

But.

What am I saying, if you want to have a relatively flawless drivetrain, you should not grossly exceed manufacturer spec. For shimano 11 speed it is 11-36 to 11-46 cassettes with 11-40 and 11-42 as optimal. That is not to say that 11-50, or even 11-52 are not going to work, but it is to note that out of their native range the quality of shifting or longevity starts to suffer.

SRAM x-horizon derailleurs are much more tolerant for this, but in order to handle 11-50 with one, you are sentenced to use Eagle one, as the 11 speed versions don't have the capacity to handle more then 11-46-ish. It sometimes works, but one particularily chain-growthy bikes it doesn't.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> _IF_ we were in the realm of reason, we would have stayed on 2x9, because that was when drivetrain peaked. Since then manufacturers have lost their way.
> 
> But.
> 
> ...


I definitely agree that the last 5 years are full of ****.
It just does not make sense.
The amount of bullshit!!!
You need 1x because it is simpler.
You need a dropper to B cool.
You need electric assist.
More to deal with, less to deal with.
Make up your mind idiot.
I realy enjoyed my XTR 3x9 on my 2000 HT.
90% of the time on middle ring, long lasting, easy to adjust.
Now you think the new tablet, the new smart phone is better.
Well you are sure to believe the BS that the 12S is better.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

When I got my latest bike it had already been converted to 1x9. Biggest cog was 34T, I needed more. Given the trend and relatively modest extra cost it seemed sensible to try 1x11 (rather than just getting larger 9-speed cassette or going back to FD). So far I like, but if my bike had been 2x9 I would not have switched to 1x. If I were a racer near the top of my class and might benefit from saving the mass then perhaps.

Now I'm just crossing my fingers, hoping I don't have to replace my cassette, chainring, and/or chain every 500 miles...


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

33red said:


> I definitely agree that the last 5 years are full of ****.
> It just does not make sense.
> The amount of bullshit!!!
> You need 1x because it is simpler.
> ...


You guys do realize that the 1x drivetrain also made rear suspensions better.
Optimazing it for 1 ring size instead of 2 or 3.
I would never go back to a 2x or 3x on a full sus or hardtail mtb.
Also front mechs are a pain in the ass, noisy, ugly and with lots of double gears.
I don't mind them on a city bike.
Well that's just my opinion.
Ride what you like


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## Greg225 (Jan 25, 2019)

OneTrustMan said:


> Ride what you like


The problem with that argument is that you can't always ride what you like.

A lot of newer frames are not compatible with FDs. I know all the positives of losing the FD from a frame design perspective, but sometimes even though the frame could run an FD, the manufacturers are just lazy and they ignore FD compatibility.

I was looking at a particular hardtail frame. Last years model could run an FD, but the current model can't. The only difference between the two frames is that on the current frame the manufacturer got rid of the cable routing entry hole for the FD, that's it. Other than that the two frames are exactly the same.
I've seen a frame that was listed 1x only because of a weird seat tube diameter...

I really don't want to start another 1x vs 2x thread because there are a bajillion of those already. In my opinion both systems have their positives and negatives (I run both), but I feel like 1x kind of turned into this trendy, cool thing, something new for the manufacturers to jump on and market the crap out of. 
If I could just "run what I like" I wouldn't say a thing, but manufacturers are forcing 1x more and more on people, sometimes for no good reason.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

Greg225 said:


> If I could just "run what I like" I wouldn't say a thing, but manufacturers are forcing 1x more and more on people, sometimes for no good reason.


Well that's true.
Can you not just use a clamp style FD, that's mounted on the seat tube?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

OneTrustMan said:


> Well that's true.
> Can you not just use a clamp style FD, that's mounted on the seat tube?


Not on my Mondraker. ISCG mounted E-type also doesn't work.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Two new XD cassettes have popped up from "SROAD" on Ali and EBay. 

10-42 11, 305g, $175, 1 alloy
10-50 12, 363g, $190, 1 alloy

The first one has X01/XX1 construction with weight closer to XG-1180. 

The second one is essentially identical to Eagle X01/XX1 in spec. 

Could be worth a look. The Ali reviews are mixed, hard to say how reliable they would be.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

alexdi said:


> Two new XD cassettes have popped up from "SROAD" on Ali and EBay.
> 
> 10-42 11, 305g, $175, 1 alloy
> 10-50 12, 363g, $190, 1 alloy
> ...


To be frank, at this price I would rather spend the few buck more on the original X01 casssettes or buy slightly used ones for cheap from new bikes.
Still it's interesting. I will wait for reviews on that cassettes.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> To be frank, at this price I would rather spend the few buck more on the original X01 casssettes or buy slightly used ones for cheap from new bikes.


I agree with the 11S, I don't think it's competitive. XG-1175 and 1180 are preferable. Snagging deals on 1195/1199 is hit or miss.

The 12S is more compelling. Eagle is $360, Garbaruk is $275. Same comment about used 1295/1299.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

alexdi said:


> I agree with the 11S, I don't think it's competitive. XG-1175 and 1180 are preferable. Snagging deals on 1195/1199 is hit or miss.
> 
> The 12S is more compelling. Eagle is $360, Garbaruk is $275. Same comment about used 1295/1299.


Yeah but just like the light ZTTO 11-50 cassette that had lots of failures and is now in the 6th version, for sure there will be another long testing period on costumers.

I would wait at least a year before trying.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

is possible to show us prototype or drawings of HG cassette with 10t ? Really curious if waiting is worth it. Because i dont need cassette with too many alloy sprocket, neither cassette with 0 alloy.
Sunrace has 10-46 XD cassette in the workings.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Something along the lines of 10-46, 11s and XD is exactly what I’m after. I don’t need anything bigger than a 42t right now with my current 34t chainring. I’d like to put a 36t on eventually. 

Alao, it seems like the Garbaruk cassettes are continually increasing in price. They’re approaching XO1 price. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Le Duke said:


> Something along the lines of 10-46, 11s and XD is exactly what I'm after. I don't need anything bigger than a 42t right now with my current 34t chainring. I'd like to put a 36t on eventually.


Would the e13 trs cassette fit what you're looking to do?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

MXIV424 said:


> Would the e13 trs cassette fit what you're looking to do?


I realize the 9t would be rarely utilized, but I've ridden an e13 cassette a couple of times and didn't like it. 10t is as small as I'd like to go. Also, there are plenty of negative reviews of those cassettes; enough to turn me off.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I took a quick video of some shifting up a hill. I'm still pretty impressed by this thing.


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## alexdi (Jun 25, 2016)

Le Duke said:


> Something along the lines of 10-46, 11s and XD is exactly what I'm after. I don't need anything bigger than a 42t right now with my current 34t chainring. I'd like to put a 36t on eventually.
> 
> Alao, it seems like the Garbaruk cassettes are continually increasing in price. They're approaching XO1 price.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Ingrid also has one that fits the bill, though not at any great economy. Listed in my sig. Everything carved from a block of steel is expensive.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

Maybe design like in EX1 makes sense, 50-42 alloy cluster, then single steel block with 5 sprockets for midrange 3x - 2x and 4 smallest in single sprockets.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Made another 21km today in wet conditions and more speed than first test. It sure works 

The backpedaling chaindrop is there on the 50T cog, but I barely use that cog anyway, only when climbing.

I think there are room for improvements regarding shifting quality, but things just works for now so I will leave it be 

Also gave it a nice 5/5 review on Amazon 

My bike is decent fast on 11T with the Oval 36T chainring. Would definitely love a 9 or 10T in the rear for some extra speed. Hahha I would definitely compete with the buslane


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

SebastianSWE said:


> Made another 21km today in wet conditions and more speed than first test. It sure works
> 
> The backpedaling chaindrop is there on the 50T cog, but I barely use that cog anyway, only when climbing.
> 
> ...


So your setup is OK, not great but nice range and acceptable shifting and limited backpedaling issues. What are you using, shifter? chain? derailleur? stock or what modifications? What did you start with? Thanks.


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

Yes, it's great 

My current setup is XT M8000 SGS rear derailleur and shifter, Shimano HG701 11spd chain, Garbaruk Oval 36T chainring. On a Cannondale Scalpel Si carbon 4 - 2017.

It came stock with 2x11 full XT M8000 drivetrain, but as I installed the OneUp dropper (which works phenomenal) I wanted to get rid of the front derailleur and shifter 
The 2x11 setup was awesome, but I rather have one shifter to focus on and it looks much cleaner with one chainring 


It shifts very well and runs very smooth. No weird sounds or anything like that.


Oh, I changed the stock B screw to something 5-10mm longer  It's a regular Hex/torx M4 screw. Stock screw is too short.


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

Ordered mine this morning - just got it (same-day shipping - pretty crazy.

I'm getting 363g on my scale. Looks well-made. The first thing I looked for was the N/W machining on the 50t - apparently this is only done on one side? The backside has the machining, but the front side does not. Everyone else?

I'll probably throw it on tomorrow - new chain won't be here for a few days (KMC). We are heading south for Pres Weekend so I can ride for few days and see how this works.

Also: packaging was super-primitive - literally just the cassette in a plain box. But, I like that - minimalist packaging is fine. It also came with a dogleg rd extension which is nice.







)


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

Hi all, so I really interested in that product, since I already have hyperglyde wheels and would like to have wider range, two questions:

1. Will it work with Shimano xt8000 medium cage? On full suspension with 160mm of travel

2. 11-46 ? Are they available?


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

Nick_M said:


> Hi all, so I really interested in that product, since I already have hyperglyde wheels and would like to have wider range, two questions:
> 
> 1. Will it work with Shimano xt8000 medium cage? On full suspension with 160mm of travel
> 
> 2. 11-46 ? Are they available?


Yes to both. But you should probably get a wolftooth goatlink11 as well.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

#1) Maybe. Some people have issues, some don't, with or without hanger extension (eg goatlink)

#2 I don't know where Shadow4eva is getting info, but AFAIK the 11-46T version of this is only a prototype and not yet available.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

arficus said:


> #1) Maybe. Some people have issues, some don't, with or without hanger extension (eg goatlink)
> 
> #2 I don't know where Shadow4eva is getting info, but AFAIK the 11-46T version of this is only a prototype and not yet available.


In my defence, his question did not specify an 11-46T cassette from ZTTO only. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Shadow4eva said:


> In my defence, his question did not specify an 11-46T cassette from ZTTO only.


OK, I will recall the retribution squad.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Furthermore, AFAIK he will be rather unlikely to need goatlink with 11-46T.


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## Shadow4eva (Jul 11, 2017)

arficus said:


> Furthermore, AFAIK he will be rather unlikely to need goatlink with 11-46T.


Agreed, so long he does not go for the 11-50T

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

Ok, thnx, since this is ztto specific thread, all questions related to ztto.

Will try with med cage, then opt for the goatlink if needed


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Nick_M said:


> Ok, thnx, since this is ztto specific thread, all questions related to ztto.
> 
> Will try with med cage, then opt for the goatlink if needed


Haha that's a big assumption in this thread 

Go back and read through page 5. It will run with a stock gs or sgs m8000 

There was talk about a HG driven 10-46 early in this thread but not sure where it's at. The 11-46 has only been shown in pics.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Nick_M said:


> Hi all, so I really interested in that product, since I already have hyperglyde wheels and would like to have wider range, two questions:
> 
> 1. Will it work with Shimano xt8000 medium cage? On full suspension with 160mm of travel
> 
> 2. 11-46 ? Are they available?


I don' think it works with medium cage. You may need a rear derailleur extension which is included in our package. About 11-46, you may see them on Amazon in about a month.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

alexdi said:


> Two new XD cassettes have popped up from "SROAD" on Ali and EBay.
> 
> 10-42 11, 305g, $175, 1 alloy
> 10-50 12, 363g, $190, 1 alloy
> ...


Yes, you are talking about our first edition, that edition may have patent issue with sram and we do not sell them internationally. We also do oem products, so you can see different brands products with same design.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> I don' think it works with medium cage. You may need a rear derailleur extension which is included in our package. About 11-46, you may see them on Amazon in about a month.


There are lots of examples of 11-50T in general working with medium cage, and at least one user in this thread with med cage working on this specific 11-50T cassette. Med cage (without extension) apparently doesn't work on some frames - I have no idea what the ratio is.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

arficus said:


> There are lots of examples of 11-50T in general working with medium cage, and at least one user in this thread with med cage working on this specific 11-50T cassette. Med cage (without extension) apparently doesn't work on some frames - I have no idea what the ratio is.


Well, I don't know that for sure, I only have long cage for testing.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

KGAmoto said:


> Ordered mine this morning - just got it (same-day shipping - pretty crazy.
> 
> I'm getting 363g on my scale. Looks well-made. The first thing I looked for was the N/W machining on the 50t - apparently this is only done on one side? The backside has the machining, but the front side does not. Everyone else?
> 
> ...


If we have n/w design on both side, the cassette will not be able to shift. Especially when you shift from the largest cog to second one, the chain will stay on the largest cog and can't go down. Our version 4 cassette made this mistake and we correct them now.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

11s GS cage will sometimes have trouble thats true but thats not due to cage length, its the position of upper cage pulley and a extended hanger will not change that. Shimano dereailleurs are not built exclusivly for 1x drivetrain like SRAM. Check for X-Horizon to see difference. You will never get 100% shifting quality with Shimano 11s on 11-50t, thats why Garbaruk is selling custom cage.


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> I don' think it works with medium cage. You may need a rear derailleur extension which is included in our package. About 11-46, you may see them on Amazon in about a month.


thank you, I'll wait for 1 month to get 11-46 option, in case it will not be available, will consider 11-50 + wolftooth cage;

those options are more a[[ealing than 10-41 from sram or e-13, since I do not have to change hub, also it is lighter and cheaper;

Having huge chain growth and 160-> 180 of travel, I slightly concerned about 50t plus medium cage, also 46t will absolutely satisfy my needs, I even thought to use 11-50 without 50 cog, 11-44 t as a 10 sp cassette;


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Just ordered the Ztto 10 Speed 11-46T cassette from Amazon with extender. Currently have 11-36T. Hopefully it will be a smooth swap. I have to see if the derailleur will work up to the low gear and chain length. I do believe it is the long cage. Dont know if this is a good brand (ZTTO) but just something to experiment with. Bike originally came with Shimano Deore Groupset 10 Speed M6000 Mountain Bike Group Set. This topic helpful to me. Thanks.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

popsjr said:


> Just ordered the Ztto 10 Speed 11-46T cassette from Amazon with extender. Currently have 11-36T. Hopefully it will be a smooth swap. I have to see if the derailleur will work up to the low gear and chain length. I do believe it is the long cage. Dont know if this is a good brand (ZTTO) but just something to experiment with. Bike originally came with Shimano Deore Groupset 10 Speed M6000 Mountain Bike Group Set. This topic helpful to me. Thanks.


I guess you will need a new chain. With a new chain and a new cassette you might check if the front ring is in good shape.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

12 speed 9-52 announced is this made in the same factory?

https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/kcnc-mtb-sram-eagle-12-speed-cassette-834401


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

KCNC is a completely different brand. They have been active since forever and usually make some weight-weenie stuff.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

popsjr said:


> Just ordered the Ztto 10 Speed 11-46T cassette from Amazon with extender. Currently have 11-36T. Hopefully it will be a smooth swap. I have to see if the derailleur will work up to the low gear and chain length. I do believe it is the long cage. Dont know if this is a good brand (ZTTO) but just something to experiment with. Bike originally came with Shimano Deore Groupset 10 Speed M6000 Mountain Bike Group Set. This topic helpful to me. Thanks.


While that's not the lightweight version being discussed here, you should be fine with either a short or long cage rd so long as you're 1x up front. Very likely you will need a new, longer chain.



syl3 said:


> 12 speed 9-52 announced is this made in the same factory?
> 
> https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/kcnc-mtb-sram-eagle-12-speed-cassette-834401


577%!!!!! That's pretty huge lol. Not a bad weight or price though...


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## Polywaffle888 (Feb 13, 2019)

Hi 

I have been looking a this for a few days but really just joined to find out where I can buy a version 5 of the 10-50T 11 speed light weight cassette for delivery to Australia? Every place I have seen seems to only have the earlier versions.


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

QingchenHuang said:


> If we have n/w design on both side, the cassette will not be able to shift. Especially when you shift from the largest cog to second one, the chain will stay on the largest cog and can't go down. Our version 4 cassette made this mistake and we correct them now.


Thank you for the info. I also ordered your ZTTO gold chain as well - figured I may as well try it.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

popsjr said:


> Just ordered the Ztto 10 Speed 11-46T cassette from Amazon with extender. Currently have 11-36T. Hopefully it will be a smooth swap. I have to see if the derailleur will work up to the low gear and chain length. I do believe it is the long cage. Dont know if this is a good brand (ZTTO) but just something to experiment with. Bike originally came with Shimano Deore Groupset 10 Speed M6000 Mountain Bike Group Set. This topic helpful to me. Thanks.


The thing is compatible with m6000 groupset. The problem of our steel cassettes was the back-pedaling issue. So please keep that in mind, if the chain fall from the cogs, please stop pedaling and correct the chain.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

KGAmoto said:


> Thank you for the info. I also ordered your ZTTO gold chain as well - figured I may as well try it.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The color on their gold chains is almost too good and durable. 
I had one and no matter how dirty the chain was, after cleaning it looked basically like new.
Shame since the chains wear out super fast. Mine was toast after 1000km.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

MXIV424 said:


> 577%!!!!! That's pretty huge lol. Not a bad weight or price though...


I would not buy it.
There are a few reviews on their cassettes that state they wear out super fast.
I mean 5 alloy cogs? The heck!.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

Here we go

ZTTO SLR2 11-52


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

On a 32T chainwheel going form 50T to 52T means a gear ratio change from .62 -> .64 - quite insignificant, and seems foolhardy given that 50T is already pushing the limits of most any derailleur. Reducing chainwheel size by 2T has about double the impact on gear ratio.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

That’s why we need the Ztto 11 speed 10-46, HG driven, 250 gram, all steel cassette to hit the market!!!

C’mon Mr. Q, make it happen!!!


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

arficus said:


> On a 32T chainwheel going form 50T to 52T means a gear ratio change from .62 -> .64 - quite insignificant, and seems foolhardy given that 50T is already pushing the limits of most any derailleur. Reducing chainwheel size by 2T has about double the impact on gear ratio.


34 with 50 = 0.68
34 with 52 = 0.65

It's a beautiful help in the inclined mountains


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Thiagooo said:


> 34 with 50 = 0.68
> 34 with 52 = 0.65
> 
> It's a beautiful help in the inclined mountains


You must be joking. A .03 change in gear ratio is hardly noticable.
At a relatively high cadence of 80, 34Tx50T = 6.46 km/h.
34Tx52T = 6.18 km/h

That amounts to a difference of about 3 crank rotations per minute - under situation where you are spinning very fast. At this rate 3 crank rotations/min are barely if at all noticable.

When on steepest terrain where your muscles are approaching limit of being able to get you up hill (and where you'd be wanting larger rear cog), cadence might be down around 30. 
50T = 2.42 km/h
52T = 2.32 km/h

That's about 1 crank rotation per minute different. 
A difference of 0.07mph!

Any way you slice it this is a minute difference, unlikely to have much of an effect on anyone's uphill experience.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

arficus said:


> You must be joking. A .03 change in gear ratio is hardly noticable.
> At a relatively high cadence of 80, 34Tx50T = 6.46 km/h.
> 34Tx52T = 6.18 km/h
> 
> ...


It is All about BS marketing,,, my system has more range, who cares if shifting is terrible if parts needs constant replacement, they are selling air, wishes, if there is compatibility, some suckers will buy $$ $$


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

MXIV424 said:


> That's why we need the Ztto 11 speed 10-46, HG driven, 250 gram, all steel cassette to hit the market!!!
> 
> C'mon Mr. Q, make it happen!!!


will buy even alu, just release it! even 11-46 will be sweeet )


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

No go on my ZTTO 10 SPEED 11-46 with derailleur extension. On highest gear the derailleur wheels ride with the gear (they are touching and wont let shift into that gear). Still have to look at some issues but the extension seems to of moved the entire derailleur out about 1/8" + making adjusting difficult - does not cover the entire gears. For now I installed original cassette 11-36T. Do have the SLX RD-M670 LONG cage. And now the patience to readjust the shifter cable, hi/lo. Give it a try tomorrow again. newbie and still learning but fun at the same time. I hope I can make use of those 50 bucks I spent.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

MXIV424 said:


> That's why we need the Ztto 11 speed 10-46, HG driven, 250 gram, all steel cassette to hit the market!!!
> 
> C'mon Mr. Q, make it happen!!!


Well too late for me.
I just put on a Sunrace 11-46 ( the lightest one )

I really wanted that super light ZTTO 11-46 but for now it's a Sunrace :thumbsup:


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

popsjr said:


> No go on my ZTTO 10 SPEED 11-46 with derailleur extension. On highest gear the derailleur wheels ride with the gear (they are touching and wont let shift into that gear). Still have to look at some issues but the extension seems to of moved the entire derailleur out about 1/8" + making adjusting difficult - does not cover the entire gears. For now I installed original cassette 11-36T. Do have the SLX RD-M670 LONG cage. And now the patience to readjust the shifter cable, hi/lo. Give it a try tomorrow again. newbie and still learning but fun at the same time. I hope I can make use of those 50 bucks I spent.


I think sometimes common sense is usefull. I went from the original 10 speeds 11-36 to a 11-42 problem free.
You can use 20 speeds for lots of range.
Because it is available does not mean it is a good option.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

popsjr said:


> No go on my ZTTO 10 SPEED 11-46 with derailleur extension. On highest gear the derailleur wheels ride with the gear (they are touching and wont let shift into that gear). Still have to look at some issues but the extension seems to of moved the entire derailleur out about 1/8" + making adjusting difficult - does not cover the entire gears. For now I installed original cassette 11-36T. Do have the SLX RD-M670 LONG cage. And now the patience to readjust the shifter cable, hi/lo. Give it a try tomorrow again. newbie and still learning but fun at the same time. I hope I can make use of those 50 bucks I spent.


The problem isn't with cassette, but some combination of derailleur geometry, derailleur adjustment, or frame/dropout geometry. The jockey wheel riding on cassette cog is usually an issue of B-screw adjustment. I suspect this is your only problem. Try it without extension.


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

popsjr said:


> No go on my ZTTO 10 SPEED 11-46 with derailleur extension. On highest gear the derailleur wheels ride with the gear (they are touching and wont let shift into that gear). Still have to look at some issues but the extension seems to of moved the entire derailleur out about 1/8" + making adjusting difficult - does not cover the entire gears. For now I installed original cassette 11-36T. Do have the SLX RD-M670 LONG cage. And now the patience to readjust the shifter cable, hi/lo. Give it a try tomorrow again. newbie and still learning but fun at the same time. I hope I can make use of those 50 bucks I spent.


because of the 10 speed der geometry, you need to by one up or similar cage or 11 speed rd


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

I agree with you. I just know anytime I modify something I may have problems like this and somewhat new to the bike in depth repair.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Yes, I was thinking about that. It will have a farther reach or width to say but only utilizing it for 10 gears. Still have some more reading to do.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

arficus said:


> The problem isn't with cassette, but some combination of derailleur geometry, derailleur adjustment, or frame/dropout geometry. The jockey wheel riding on cassette cog is usually an issue of B-screw adjustment. I suspect this is your only problem. Try it without extension.


Well after working on it Sat again for a few hours I learned a few things. I think I just need to be more informed about what I am doing and the sequence of proper adjusting. So I put the new ZTTO cassette on today and now can get it to the lowest gear but learning more about the B adjustment and clearance. As it stands for now my low and high limits are good but can shift thru all the cogs. I think I need to tighten up the shifter cable a little more at the derailleur on high gear and find a good starting point for the indexing barrel so I can fine tune with that. Will keep you updated.
*Well update! *earlier than I expected. I think I just realized there is a difference between a road link and a goat link. I have the road link which is offset. I just ordered a g
oat link so hopefully tomorrow it will arrive and then go thru the whole alignment process again. Thanks for the forum and input. You get me thinking about this stuff.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

Instaled ztto slr2 with gx eagle
The changes are all ok ... but when passing shift to last cog (52t) it does not seem to fit properly, the chain only fully fits into the cog when it is completely on the COG 52... after it fits it works perfectly

Can anyone help? I already checked the limit bolts and it's ok, too.

I tried to make a slow-motion video but I do not know if YouTube releases. At 720 / 60fps slowing down to see better.


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## x-rated (Jan 1, 2019)

arficus said:


> On a 32T chainwheel going form 50T to 52T means a gear ratio change from .62 -> .64 - quite insignificant, and seems foolhardy given that 50T is already pushing the limits of most any derailleur. Reducing chainwheel size by 2T has about double the impact on gear ratio.


50 to 52t, only a 4% gear change which is like 1/4-1/3 of a full gear. Changing from 10-42 to 11-50 is also just 1/2 gear. Same like going from 46t to 50t which is also less than 11t to 10t.
Marketing is better to impress by total gear range.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Still waiting for my rear derailleur but the change from 36T (4.8 ratio)to 46T (3.7 ratio) seems to make a big difference. I have seldom had to use the 46, a few times I used the 40 (4.3 ratio) but at least glad I have the capacity. Only thing I am realizing fooling around more and more with steeper inclines is that I have a tendency to flip backwards if I pull too hard: I am still learning and trying to keep my weight down and forward.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

popsjr said:


> Still waiting for my rear derailleur but the change from 36T (4.8 ratio)to 46T (3.7 ratio) seems to make a big difference. I have seldom had to use the 46, a few times I used the 40 (4.3 ratio) but at least glad I have the capacity. Only thing I am realizing fooling around more and more with steeper inclines is that I have a tendency to flip backwards if I pull too hard: I am still learning and trying to keep my weight down and forward.


We try and get better. Try sitting all the way forward, just on the tip, obviously your nose close to the tire, keep your elbows low. Last may i had a problem i just switched to the saddle that was on my fatbike and no more problem. Being longer my weight was more in front.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Thiagooo said:


> Instaled ztto slr2 with gx eagle
> The changes are all ok ... but when passing shift to last cog (52t) it does not seem to fit properly, the chain only fully fits into the cog when it is completely on the COG 52... after it fits it works perfectly
> 
> Can anyone help? I already checked the limit bolts and it's ok, too.
> ...


 I am not a pro here but you might need a GOATLINK extension on the derailleur. See my comment below. I had just installed lower gears and the derailleur wheel was not clearing the largest cog untill I installed the goatlink This is the item I purchased but for 10 soeed 
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UP0ZB7...olid=3V2182RVQ635Z&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it
I also had to buy a longer B screw which I found at Home Depot. Hope this helps.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

popsjr said:


> I am not a pro here but you might need a GOATLINK extension on the derailleur.


The Goatlink won't work with SRAM RDs.

I know it's too late now but in your case either an M6000 GS rear derailleur or an 11spd RD would have worked much much better. Both use an offset pulley which helps massively when running larger cogs at the back. The 10spd SLX RD that you bought was meant for an 11-36.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

HollyBoni said:


> The Goatlink won't work with SRAM RDs.
> 
> I know it's too late now but in your case either an M6000 GS rear derailleur or an 11spd RD would have worked much much better. Both use an offset pulley which helps massively when running larger cogs at the back. The 10spd SLX RD that you bought was meant for an 11-36.


Ah! just learned that but I do know some components are not interchangeable. I'm learning. I could of just bought a bike and take it to the repair shop all the time but that takes the fun out of upgrading and learning. Just heard an Amazon plane crashed by Houston killing all three crew. Lots of packages were in there. So I get my derailleur when it get it. Sad to hear these tragic events thru the world.


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

I made the switch slowly and took some pictures.

Sometimes it fits first. Sometimes it looks like this:
Then when it arrives at the end it fits ...









The problem is the cassette? The chain? :madman::madman::madman::madmax::madmax::madmax::madmax:

@QingchenHuang


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Thiagooo said:


> I made the switch slowly and took some pictures.
> 
> Sometimes it fits first. Sometimes it looks like this:
> Then when it arrives at the end it fits ...
> ...


Are you on smallest crank front, maybe derailleur needs to be a long cage, chain length?


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

popsjr said:


> Are you on smallest crank front, maybe derailleur needs to be a long cage, chain length?


Only have a 34T front. The derrailluer is the sram gx, only one version.

Chain I believe to be in the right size. Bigger this would get too big.


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## Shinkers (Feb 5, 2014)

Thiagooo said:


> I made the switch slowly and took some pictures.
> 
> Sometimes it fits first. Sometimes it looks like this:
> Then when it arrives at the end it fits ...
> ...


When it does that, check where the narrow-wide teeth are lining up on the cog. I'd bet you're a tooth off (wide tooth hitting an inner link).


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Thiagooo said:


> I made the switch slowly and took some pictures.
> 
> Sometimes it fits first. Sometimes it looks like this:
> Then when it arrives at the end it fits ...
> ...


Hi, I saw your video and I think it would be better if you shift under load. If you do not shift under load, It would be difficult for the chain to get in to the right place. Usually, the chain would get in to the right place within one full cycle. Narrow wide design have it's problem and this is the best we can do for now.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

*Leak of our dropper post lever. Full CNC with sealed bearing design.*




















I think the estimate price would be around 30 USD.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> Hi, I saw your video and I think it would be better if you shift under load. If you do not shift under load, It would be difficult for the chain to get in to the right place. Usually, the chain would get in to the right place within one full cycle. Narrow wide design have it's problem and this is the best we can do for now.


I have not seen video, but absolutely, if you are not under load that alone will explain why chain doesn't settle right. Under load chain will skip until it finds proper N/W alignment.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

MXIV424 said:


> Here you go.
> 
> https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCEADerFzWXo_heCAw-lHR4A





arficus said:


> I have not seen video, but absolutely, if you are not under load that alone will explain why chain doesn't settle right. Under load chain will skip until it finds proper N/W alignment.





Thiagooo said:


> I made the switch slowly and took some pictures.
> 
> Sometimes it fits first. Sometimes it looks like this:
> Then when it arrives at the end it fits ...
> ...


If you watch the 4 of 4 video you'll see the same thing happens when not under load. It will seat properly when under load so long as everything else is set correctly.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

@Qingchenhuang - have you been able to weight the 11-46? Has there been any progress on the 10t HG driven cassette?


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## redoctober357 (Jul 8, 2016)

If you ever need beta testers, I've been in the market for a cheaper dropper lever. I've snapped a couple during crashes and at $60 a pop...


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MXIV424 said:


> @Qingchenhuang - have you been able to weight the 11-46? Has there been any progress on the 10t HG driven cassette?










About 360 grams.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

redoctober357 said:


> If you ever need beta testers, I've been in the market for a cheaper dropper lever. I've snapped a couple during crashes and at $60 a pop...


OK，I will let you know when I need a tester.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Do you guys have an 11-50 12 speed or 10-50 12 speed?

Edit: I may have answered my own question.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ZTTO-MTB-1...tra-Light-Freewheel-Fit-SHIMANO-/223242309384


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Do you guys have an 11-50 12 speed or 10-50 12 speed?


Yes, we do, here is the link. https://www.amazon.com/Ztto-Light-Weight-Cassette-Freehub-Mountain/dp/B07P17MB2L/
https://www.amazon.com/Ztto-Super-Lightweight-Cassette-11-52t-Mountain/dp/B07MS12P58/


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> Yes, we do, here is the link. https://www.amazon.com/Ztto-Light-Weight-Cassette-Freehub-Mountain/dp/B07P17MB2L/
> https://www.amazon.com/Ztto-Super-Lightweight-Cassette-11-52t-Mountain/dp/B07MS12P58/


Why s that so much more expensive than this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.64ec7fbfmHijq6

Edit: sorry, I see the 2nd link you posted now.

But again, what's the difference in the 2 and why id the silver so much more than the black?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Why s that so much more expensive than this:
> 
> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.64ec7fbfmHijq6
> 
> ...


Because the 2nd one offers XD structure and have almost the same design like sram's XX1 eagle. The cassette was CNC machined from a single piece of extremely hard Chrome Molybdenum Vanadium Steel,except the largest cog. Our supplier also sell this material to Chinese High Speed Railway to build high speed trains. So the cassette have extremely long life compare to usual cassette. Use CNC machine process on material this hard need more expensive machine, waste more cutting tool, takes much more time, also much higher rate of spoiled products .
The 1st cassette use al7075 for larger cogs, They are not long-lasting compare to steel and easy to machine. The smaller cogs have traditional cassette structure and easy to make. That is why it's cheaper.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> Because the 2nd one offers XD structure and have almost the same design like sram's XX1 eagle. The cassette was CNC machined from a single piece of extremely hard Chrome Molybdenum Vanadium Steel,except the largest cog. Our supplier also sell this material to Chinese High Speed Railway to build high speed trains. So the cassette have extremely long life compare to usual cassette. Use CNC machine process on material this hard need more expensive machine, waste more cutting tool, takes much more time, also much higher rate of spoiled products .
> The 1st cassette use al7075 for larger cogs, They are not long-lasting compare to steel and easy to machine. The smaller cogs have traditional cassette structure and easy to make. That is why it's cheaper.


https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.61267fbfZd3DCG

So this cassette is 12 speed, 359 grams, 100% steel and fits a standard Shimano 11 speed driver?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pr...ml?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.1.61267fbfZd3DCG
> 
> So this cassette is 12 speed, 359 grams, 100% steel and fits a standard Shimano 11 speed driver?


The largest cog was aluminum.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

So I've had enough of my Garbaruk cassette creaking. Can't anyone confirm if this 11-50 Shimano style cassette creaks at all?


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

No creaking at all. BUT, it's being ridden by a 70lb 10 year old so.

I still think this cassette with XT 8000 shifter and GS rd is the best shifting bike in our garage!


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

GRPABT1 said:


> So I've had enough of my Garbaruk cassette creaking. Can't anyone confirm if this 11-50 Shimano style cassette creaks at all?


No creaking from mine. It is a solid 1 piece unit. I got about 1500 miles out of it before the chain would start skipping under heavy load.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

only like 100 miles on mine, but 210LBS and no creaking.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> No creaking from mine. It is a solid 1 piece unit. I got about 1500 miles out of it before the chain would start skipping under heavy load.


Ouch. Just on smallest cog I assume? Sounds like manufacturer offers good warranty and will replace - representative posts here in this thread, you should drop him a line.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

arficus said:


> Ouch. Just on smallest cog I assume? Sounds like manufacturer offers good warranty and will replace - representative posts here in this thread, you should drop him a line.


No it's more in the midrange. It's worn. i have admittedly abused it and run it in some pretty nasty race conditions and hammered on it. I wouldn't ask anyone to replace it considering the life it has lived.


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## arficus (Oct 28, 2018)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> No it's more in the midrange. It's worn. i have admittedly abused it and run it in some pretty nasty race conditions and hammered on it. I wouldn't ask anyone to replace it considering the life it has lived.


That's good on all fronts - that the cassette isn't that flimsy and that you're having so much fun. But wow, don't think I've ever had a skip anywhere above lowest cogs. A few teeth in a row must've sheared off?


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## usernamehere (Mar 19, 2009)

I just installed ztto 11-50 11 speed cassette- only ridden around the block. no backpedal derailment. finish on the steel section does not seem as nice as it could be but shifting is good, time will tell, spring is almost here...


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Dropper post lever now available on Amazon. CNC machined 6061 aluminum full metal design with sealed bearing. Only 25 bucks. I am looking for someone to do the testing.


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## neil_240 (Jan 2, 2010)

QingchenHuang said:


> Dropper post lever now available on Amazon. CNC machined 6061 aluminum full metal design with sealed bearing. Only 25 bucks. I am looking for someone to do the testing.
> View attachment 1242795
> View attachment 1242796
> View attachment 1242797


This looks great. Will it work with both cable styles, like the cable head at the lever or the post? Does it use a common bearing size if it needs to be replaced? And what is involved in the testing?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

QingchenHuang said:


> Dropper post lever now available on Amazon. CNC machined 6061 aluminum full metal design with sealed bearing. Only 25 bucks. I am looking for someone to do the testing.
> View attachment 1242795
> View attachment 1242796
> View attachment 1242797


Let's talk. I just sent you a message. This will fall under line of Components I am selling - I'm interested in putting some time on the lever.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

neil_240 said:


> This looks great. Will it work with both cable styles, like the cable head at the lever or the post? Does it use a common bearing size if it needs to be replaced? And what is involved in the testing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Nice, good price also

Best regards,
Nick


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

neil_240 said:


> This looks great. Will it work with both cable styles, like the cable head at the lever or the post? Does it use a common bearing size if it needs to be replaced? And what is involved in the testing?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk


Yes, it works with both cable style. You don't need to worry about the bearing, because if you break anything by any reason, we will send you new parts to repair the dropper post or send you a new one if it's beyond repair. If you are interested in testing, please contat me.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> Yes, it works with both cable style. You don't need to worry about the bearing, because if you break anything by any reason, we will send you new parts to repair the dropper post or send you a new one if it's beyond repair. If you are interested in testing, please contat me.


I also would like to test that lever.
My new dropperpost came with really bad one that dosen't work smooth at all.
Lot's of thumb force needed.
Your bearing style lever looks like it would work smooth.
The design is interesting.

Maybe a few other color options in the future would be nice.


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## Daniel O. (Feb 17, 2011)

PMing you about the lever and cassette options. Looking to change things up.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> I also would like to test that lever.
> My new dropperpost came with really bad one that dosen't work smooth at all.
> Lot's of thumb force needed.
> Your bearing style lever looks like it would work smooth.
> ...


I will PM you.


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

Do you have a taobao link for the Dropper Lever and the new ZTTO cassettes?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MagicShite said:


> Do you have a taobao link for the Dropper Lever and the new ZTTO cassettes?


I am sorry, we do not sell on Taobao, once I sell dropper post lever in China, they will copy my product in no time.


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> I am sorry, we do not sell on Taobao, once I sell dropper post lever in China, they will copy my product in no time.


hahahahha. As a non-china chinese I totally get you. 我明白的。

Anyway, I really like what you guys have done to the SLR cassette, in terms of the steps. I know it's a very niche request, but would you guys consider making a heavier version with the same steps without the use of so many large alloy cogs? Would be nice if there's a version with more steel cogs. Heck if you can make it CNC like the 46T version that's even better.

Steel cogs wear so much better than alloy. From where I'm from, we're stuck with 36-42-50T and 30T Chainring front 95% of the time when climbing.

I can use the 32T Chainring with the 44-50 step, this would be insanely awesome because I use 30x42 combination most of the time.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

11 speed 11-46t cassette available now. 
Test vide:


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

magicshite said:


> hahahahha. As a non-china chinese i totally get you. 我明白的。
> 
> anyway, i really like what you guys have done to the slr cassette, in terms of the steps. I know it's a very niche request, but would you guys consider making a heavier version with the same steps without the use of so many large alloy cogs? Would be nice if there's a version with more steel cogs. Heck if you can make it cnc like the 46t version that's even better.
> 
> ...


其实我们是有全钢版本的cnc飞轮的，目前只有11速10-42xd版本和11-42的普通塔基版本， 11速50t的全钢版本倒链有些问题，我们快解决了，过半个月到一个月应该就能上市了。


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

QingchenHuang said:


> 11 speed 11-46t cassette available now.
> Test vide:
> 
> 
> ...


Nice :O
Even a 10 speed with 324g.
I have a new long cage Sram GX 10-spd derailleur left.
Maybe I will buy the 10 speed cassette later.


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

Nice, going to pair with xtr chain and xt

Best regards,
Nick


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

OneTrustMan said:


> Nice :O
> Even a 10 speed with 324g.
> I have a new long cage Sram GX 10-spd derailleur left.
> Maybe I will buy the 10 speed cassette later.


Remember to PM me before you order, I will give you a discount.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

QingchenHuang said:


> 11 speed 11-46t cassette available now.
> Test vide:
> 
> 
> ...


I think I'm going to order one...I was going to get an XT...but the weight weenie in me wants a lighter cassette. I just need to finish up my Evil and going to order this for the Banshee.


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## Daniel O. (Feb 17, 2011)

Wow, that looks nice. I think I may need to get one!


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

Still holding out for the all steel 46t. Can take either the 11-46t or the 10-46t in 11speed (though I'd prefer the XD config fwiw). I'm impressed by the hard work being done on these, and pleased with my new dropper lever. ;-)


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

These are looking really good! Unfortunate that the discount over the real deal isn't as steep as I had been hoping. Maybe they will drop in price over the next few months, but I think the reality is that these things really are just machine-intensive and will always be on the expensive side.


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## Nick_M (Jan 16, 2015)

I'm on, prices on par with Shimano offering, to me it does look like a good deal.

Best regards,
Nick


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

QingchenHuang said:


> 其实我们是有全钢版本的cnc飞轮的，目前只有11速10-42xd版本和11-42的普通塔基版本， 11速50t的全钢版本倒链有些问题，我们快解决了，过半个月到一个月应该就能上市了。


厉害。我很期待。

倒链不是个问题，我觉得都被夸大了。我反而不喜欢NW的42/50T。 I honestly do feel that SRAM's bandaid NW design to solve backpedaling issue is the wrong way to do it. Shifting to a larger cog is already impeding as it is, why add NW so you get SYNC issues?

Either fix the chain line and/or do solve it on the system level via a better chain design like XTR just did.


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

b0bg said:


> and pleased with my new dropper lever. ;-)


How is it?
Mine hasn't arrived yet.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

b0bg said:


> Still holding out for the all steel 46t. Can take either the 11-46t or the 10-46t in 11speed (though I'd prefer the XD config fwiw). I'm impressed by the hard work being done on these, and pleased with my new dropper lever. ;-)


Where have you seen a 10-46 11 speed cassette?


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

Le Duke said:


> Where have you seen a 10-46 11 speed cassette?


I haven't seen one, the current offering is only 10-42 (or 11-42), but I believe Mr Q floated the possibility of a 10-46 11sp somewhere in this thread. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

MagicShite said:


> 厉害。我很期待。
> 
> 倒链不是个问题，我觉得都被夸大了。我反而不喜欢NW的42/50T。 I honestly do feel that SRAM's bandaid NW design to solve backpedaling issue is the wrong way to do it. Shifting to a larger cog is already impeding as it is, why add NW so you get SYNC issues?
> 
> Either fix the chain line and/or do solve it on the system level via a better chain design like XTR just did.


Back-pedaling is a very serious problem, it will cause the cassette to break and even destroy your rear derailleur. When you on the trail and accidentally the chain dropped to smaller cogs when your derailleur still stay on larger cogs, the cassette will take a lot of horizontal shearing force. Cassette was not designed for this kind of shearing force and it will most likely to break. When you see my full steel cassette reviews, you will see a lot of negative reviews about this situation. So, this is a problem that have to be solved. 
There are two ways to solve the problem, from the chain or from the cassette. You can make a chain with hooks as some manufacturer already done or a cassette with N/W design. For a part seller like us, we are not likely ask all of our customers to use our chain only, so the N/W design might be the only choice for us.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

b0bg said:


> I haven't seen one, the current offering is only 10-42 (or 11-42), but I believe Mr Q floated the possibility of a 10-46 11sp somewhere in this thread. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part.


Ah. Ok.

Likewise, I don't need 10-50 or larger. Just a bit more than 10-42.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Recieved my cassette in the mail, looks quality except for maybe the plastic spacer between the individual cogs but I can use a metal one from another cassette. Will fit it tomorrow.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

QingchenHuang: Ya'll got the issues on the 12 speed 11-50 Shimano driver cassette worked out yet???



GRPABT1 said:


> Recieved my cassette in the mail, looks quality except for maybe the plastic spacer between the individual cogs but I can use a metal one from another cassette. Will fit it tomorrow.


1500+ miles and no issues with the plastic spacers. Not sure why people get caught up on that, it's not the first time I have seen it mentioned.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> QingchenHuang: Ya'll got the issues on the 12 speed 11-50 Shimano driver cassette worked out yet???
> 
> 1500+ miles and no issues with the plastic spacers. Not sure why people get caught up on that, it's not the first time I have seen it mentioned.


We have some 12 speed 52t cassette on Amazon warehouse. We still didn't have 12 speed 11-50t. Also, I don't think the plastic spacer will cuase any trouble.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

GRPABT1 said:


> Recieved my cassette in the mail, looks quality except for maybe the plastic spacer between the individual cogs but I can use a metal one from another cassette. Will fit it tomorrow.


I don't think the plastic spacers will cause any trouble, For the conjuction of steel part and aluminum part, the spider had a integrated aluminum spacer. So we don't have much plastic spacer, I think there might be only one plastic spacer since 11t-13t do not need a spacer.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

b0bg said:


> I haven't seen one, the current offering is only 10-42 (or 11-42), but I believe Mr Q floated the possibility of a 10-46 11sp somewhere in this thread. Perhaps it's just wishful thinking on my part.





Le Duke said:


> Ah. Ok.
> 
> Likewise, I don't need 10-50 or larger. Just a bit more than 10-42.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yeah, I remember that and am waiting as well. It was also going to be hg driven. I won't be surprised if we never see it but it would be rad if we do :thumbsup:

Still loving the 11-50t lightweight 11 speed though!


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

QingchenHuang said:


> Back-pedaling is a very serious problem, it will cause the cassette to break and even destroy your rear derailleur. When you on the trail and accidentally the chain dropped to smaller cogs when your derailleur still stay on larger cogs, the cassette will take a lot of horizontal shearing force. Cassette was not designed for this kind of shearing force and it will most likely to break. When you see my full steel cassette reviews, you will see a lot of negative reviews about this situation. So, this is a problem that have to be solved.
> There are two ways to solve the problem, from the chain or from the cassette. You can make a chain with hooks as some manufacturer already done or a cassette with N/W design. For a part seller like us, we are not likely ask all of our customers to use our chain only, so the N/W design might be the only choice for us.


Im thinking about getting the steel 11-50 11 speed. been using Sunrace aluminum 11-50, wears out in about 5 months in the largest cogs so if the steel will last significantly longer ill take the weight penalty. But, has the chain drop/back pedaling issue been solved in the current version?
or will your aluminum one outlast teh sunrace?


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## Eneen (Jul 4, 2017)

@QingchenHuang do you plan to introduce lower steel cassette part as replacement?


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

dwyooaj said:


> Im thinking about getting the steel 11-50 11 speed. been using Sunrace aluminum 11-50, wears out in about 5 months in the largest cogs so if the steel will last significantly longer ill take the weight penalty. But, has the chain drop/back pedaling issue been solved in the current version?
> or will your aluminum one outlast teh sunrace?


The aluminum cassette have the same material with Sunrace, Al7075. So if you are an avid rider, I don't think aluminum ones are gonna hold. Our full steel CNC version 11-50t cassette already finished the technical adjustment and will be available in about a week. If you choose the traditional full steel version, be aware of back-pedaling, when it happens, please stop pedaling and adjust the chain to right position.


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## QingchenHuang (Nov 17, 2016)

Eneen said:


> @QingchenHuang do you plan to introduce lower steel cassette part as replacement?


If you ever seen our Amazon link, you will find out that we provide warranty for one year, that means within one year, we wills send you all the part you need to maintain the cassette functional for free. Even the cassette was damaged by crash or accident. So, there is no need to buy them separately.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

QingchenHuang said:


> The aluminum cassette have the same material with Sunrace, Al7075. So if you are an avid rider, I don't think aluminum ones are gonna hold. Our full steel CNC version 11-50t cassette already finished the technical adjustment and will be available in about a week. If you choose the traditional full steel version, be aware of back-pedaling, when it happens, please stop pedaling and adjust the chain to right position.


 Thanks, I can wait, can you post here when its available, and where, hopefully Amazon? what would be the weight on the full cnc steel version? Im guessing the backpedal issue is better in the new version?


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

For those who may think about buying the ZTTO dropper lever.
I got mine yesterday and the quality is great.
This lever feels really smooth. You won't need much force to use it.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Fit my ZTT0 11-50 cassette, (used the plastic spacer) haven't had the chance to ride it yet unfortunately due to weather but it shifts fine on the stand and around the yard with a Garbaruk cage on an XT mech with an eagle chain. Doesn't seem to make any noise yet which is an improvement over the Garbaruk, and it looks fantastic. I'm itching to see how it goes on the trails now and how much my larger chainring has affected antisquat and pedal kickback.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

HollyBoni said:


> The Goatlink won't work with SRAM RDs.
> 
> I know it's too late now but in your case either an M6000 GS rear derailleur or an 11spd RD would have worked much much better. Both use an offset pulley which helps massively when running larger cogs at the back. The 10spd SLX RD that you bought was meant for an 11-36.


Yes I think that would of been a better choice. Finally up and running with the ZTTO 10-S 11-46 cassette and the RD M-7000 SGS SLX SHADOW + DM. Had some trouble shifting but finally figured out it was mainly the B-screw adjustment and clearance on cogs and more patience on fine tuning index while road testing. Smooth shifting now. I had also found out that the rear hanger was bent slightly but probably enough to cause issues. Was not to noticeable but when I removed it entirely from the bike it was obvious. Once all this was corrected the shifting is smooth.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Put in an order for the 11-46 SLR2. Hope it shifts as good...or close as possible to a Shimano or SRAM cassette.


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## marzocchi170 (Jan 14, 2007)

QingchenHuang said:


> The aluminum cassette have the same material with Sunrace, Al7075. So if you are an avid rider, I don't think aluminum ones are gonna hold. Our full steel CNC version 11-50t cassette already finished the technical adjustment and will be available in about a week. If you choose the traditional full steel version, be aware of back-pedaling, when it happens, please stop pedaling and adjust the chain to right position.


Do you have full steel CNC version 11-50/51/52T 10/11/12speed cassette?


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## marzocchi170 (Jan 14, 2007)

QingchenHuang said:


> The aluminum cassette have the same material with Sunrace, Al7075. So if you are an avid rider, I don't think aluminum ones are gonna hold. Our full steel CNC version 11-50t cassette already finished the technical adjustment and will be available in about a week. If you choose the traditional full steel version, be aware of back-pedaling, when it happens, please stop pedaling and adjust the chain to right position.


Do you have FULL STEEL CNC version 11-50/51/52T 10/11/12speed cassette?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

marzocchi170 said:


> Do you have full steel CNC version 11-50/51/52T 10/11/12speed cassette?


From my experience and readings i suggest you forget about 10S if 11-42 is not wide enough for you. I use that on 2 20 speeds bikes and my 11S is 10-42.


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## marzocchi170 (Jan 14, 2007)

33red said:


> From my experience and readings i suggest you forget about 10S if 11-42 is not wide enough for you. I use that on 2 20 speeds bikes and my 11S is 10-42.


How about 10S 11-46T?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

marzocchi170 said:


> How about 10S 11-46T?


A guy i know is selling that to move to 11 S so you have your answer. After 1 year he is unhappy with it on his fatbike. Sometimes you look too much to stretch it and the result is wasted $$. He sold me an 11-42 great cassette because he refused to drop under 28 in the front. With 10 speeds you cannot have it all, choose top speed or tiny climbing gear. That is why 2 of my bikes have 20 S and only my 20 pounds mountain bike is 11S. Find your proper mix of front and rear. My 11 S was bought used with a 32 in front, it felt good, now with a 28 in front it is one of my best bike ever and i am 61.


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## marzocchi170 (Jan 14, 2007)

33red said:


> A guy i know is selling that to move to 11 S so you have your answer. After 1 year he is unhappy with it on his fatbike. Sometimes you look too much to stretch it and the result is wasted $$. He sold me an 11-42 great cassette because he refused to drop under 28 in the front. With 10 speeds you cannot have it all, choose top speed or tiny climbing gear. That is why 2 of my bikes have 20 S and only my 20 pounds mountain bike is 11S. Find your proper mix of front and rear. My 11 S was bought used with a 32 in front, it felt good, now with a 28 in front it is one of my best bike ever and i am 61.


Past your 11S with a 32 in front, a 11-42 in rear, it felt good? 
Now your 11S with a 28 in front, a 11-46 in rear, it is your best bike ever?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

marzocchi170 said:


> Past your 11S with a 32 in front, a 11-42 in rear, it felt good?
> Now your 11S with a 28 in front, a 11-46 in rear, it is your best bike ever?


You miss read, it is a SRAM 10-42.
I never had any 11-46.
Your ratios are made from front and rear gears and tire size.
Just look up gear ratio calculator.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

11-46 with a 28 in front is some really slow gearing.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

GRPABT1 said:


> 11-46 with a 28 in front is some really slow gearing.


Some of us are not in a hurry.


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

GRPABT1 said:


> 11-46 with a 28 in front is some really slow gearing.


It isn't.

This is merely 30x50 some people run.

You can do >4 watts/kg for the climbs we do here on the 30x50/28x46 at 70-80 rpm.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

MagicShite said:


> It isn't.
> 
> This is merely 30x50 some people run.
> 
> You can do >4 watts/kg for the climbs we do here on the 30x50/28x46 at 70-80 rpm.


It's the 11x28 that is slow.

Finally had the chance to ride on my 11-50 cassette (with 34t AB oval) today and it was flawless. Silent, effortless shifting.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

I have 22-30-40 front with ZTTO 11-46T 10S rear. I mostly ride at 30 though good to know I can go lower if needed. 22 @ 46 is certainly a lot of spinning torque for steep bumpy terrain.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

popsjr said:


> I have 22-30-40 front with ZTTO 11-46T 10S rear. I mostly ride at 30 though good to know I can go lower if needed. 22 @ 46 is certainly a lot of spinning torque for steep bumpy terrain.


I never had any 11-46 cassette.
My mountain bike is 11 S 28 front with 10-42 and it suits me fine with 29x2.3 tires.
My fat bike is 20S 36/22 front with 11-42 cassette and i only use the 22 front ring. On the worst climbs i could use a 46 but it becomes an art. You need the grippiest rear tire to avoid spinning and a gentle push to avoid wheelies, that front tire will jump up if you apply serious pressure. A power rider would hate that ratio combined with 26x4.8 tire. I just did 5 hours this morning and if i was using the original cassette of 11-36 i am pretty sure after 3hrs i would not enjoy climbing so much or i would need a rest day. I pedal every day(no car).


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

popsjr said:


> I have 22-30-40 front with ZTTO 11-46T 10S rear. I mostly ride at 30 though good to know I can go lower if needed. 22 @ 46 is certainly a lot of spinning torque for steep bumpy terrain.


Holy moly, what kind of RD do you have that can handle a range as massive as that? 600%! :lol:


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

HollyBoni said:


> Holy moly, what kind of RD do you have that can handle a range as massive as that? 600%! :lol:


760%. Actually. With a total capacity of 53teeth. With an SGS rear mech and some trigger discipline, I guess its doable.


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> 760%. Actually. With a total capacity of 53teeth. With an SGS rear mech and some trigger discipline, I guess its doable.


Wait, does that mean i've been doing the math wrong all this time? :lol: I thought it was largest cog÷smallest cog + largest chainring ÷ smallest chainring *100.

So in this case (46÷11)+(40÷22)*100=600.

That's not the right way to calculate the range?


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

HollyBoni said:


> Wait, does that mean i've been doing the math wrong all this time? :lol: I thought it was largest cog÷smallest cog + largest chainring ÷ smallest chainring *100.
> 
> So in this case (46÷11)+(40÷22)*100=600.
> 
> That's not the right way to calculate the range?


I doubt all the gears are available. In 2000 i had an XTR 27 speeds. It is allmost like a single ring 90% of the time on the middle. The front was about the same but my cassette was probably an 11-32.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

HollyBoni said:


> Wait, does that mean i've been doing the math wrong all this time? :lol: I thought it was largest cog÷smallest cog + largest chainring ÷ smallest chainring *100.
> 
> So in this case (46÷11)+(40÷22)*100=600.
> 
> That's not the right way to calculate the range?


Seems so:
Range -> (highest gear) / (lowest gear) * 100

In this case it is ( 22/46 ) / ( 40/11 ) * 100% = 3,636 / 0,478 * 100% = 7,606 = 760%

Gear range is, essentially, how many times lowest gear fits in the highest.

@33red - with an SGS rear mech ( usually 45T capacity ) and a chain length set to with the proper method ( I have a vid on my channel discussing that in excruciating detail ) the top and bottom gears are available on that setup.

It is actually a very useful hack if one wants to use an SS rear mech ( such as zee ) without compromising range. For example - with a 36/22 front and 11-36 rear you still get 536% of range ( _more_ than eagle ) with a super-super short cage, super-super tight drivetrain and loads of ground clearance. All that a price of granny-small cogs ratios being unavailable.

It requires some trigger discipline, but not much. Here is an example of my old Rune:

https://www.pinkbike.com/photo/9879867/


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> Seems so:
> Range -> (highest gear) / (lowest gear) * 100
> 
> In this case it is ( 22/46 ) / ( 40/11 ) * 100% = 3,636 / 0,478 * 100% = 7,606 = 760%
> ...


How do you calculate the range of a 1x? I thought it was largest cog/smallest cog*100, is that incorrect too?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

HollyBoni said:


> How do you calculate the range of a 1x? I thought it was largest cog/smallest cog*100, is that incorrect too?


It is correct. But only works for 1xX. It works just the same as the formula I have shown before because the chainring size will cancel itsself out on it - which simplifies it to the bottom / top formula.

Edit : F it, nerding out. Consider X - small cog, Y - big cog, Z - chainring

top gear = Z / X
bottom gear = Z / Y
range = top/bottom
range = ( Z / X ) / ( Z / Y ) = ( Z / X ) * ( Y / Z ) = Y / X


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## HollyBoni (Dec 27, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> It is correct. But only works for 1xX. It works just the same as the formula I have shown before because the chainring size will cancel itsself out on it - which simplifies it to the bottom / top formula.
> 
> Edit : F it, nerding out. Consider X - small cog, Y - big cog, Z - chainring
> 
> ...


Got it.

I got my formula from this article, i've just mixed it up a bit. :lol: I'm bad at maths.

https://www.mbr.co.uk/news/500-gear-range-mean-drivetrain-companies-boasting-percentages-347176

_"For example, an 11-36t cassette combined with a 36/24t chainset has a gear range of 491% (36 ÷ 24) 1.5 x (36 ÷ 11) 3.27 x 100 = 491%."_


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

uzurpator said:


> It is actually a very useful hack if one wants to use an SS rear mech ( such as zee ) without compromising range.
> It requires some trigger discipline, but not much.[/url]


I haven't seen your video but my guess is that you don't measure the total chain lengh by largest ring front and cog rear, but make a compromise in between so that the larger cogs works only with the smaller chainring while the smaller cogs work only with the bigger chainring.
Nice hack, but one accidental front shift on the larger cogs 
and your derailleur is dun goofed^^


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

OneTrustMan said:


> I haven't seen your video but my guess is that you don't measure the total chain lengh by largest ring front and cog rear, but make a compromise in between so that the larger cogs works only with the smaller chainring while the smaller cogs work only with the bigger chainring.
> Nice hack, but one accidental front shift on the larger cogs
> and your derailleur is dun goofed^^


Then it would not be an useful hack, now would it? No. In the context of a double ( 36/22, as this was what I referred to before ) you set it in a way that the RD can access all gears. Zee can hande 11-36. Now you have a 1xX with 36 + 11-36.

If you then shift to the granny, then all you can access are the four-five biggest cogs, as the chain will sag at anything smaller then that. All you have to remember is to not ride on the small-smallish combos, as these simply don't work, which is fine by me.

The 'useful' part about this hack is that it is very unlikely to damage anything, you get all the usually used gears ( how often did you use small-small? ) and all the benefits of using a short cage RD.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

uzurpator said:


> Then it would not be an useful hack, now would it? No. In the context of a double ( 36/22, as this was what I referred to before ) you set it in a way that the RD can access all gears. Zee can hande 11-36. Now you have a 1xX with 36 + 11-36.
> 
> If you then shift to the granny, then all you can access are the four-five biggest cogs, as the chain will sag at anything smaller then that. All you have to remember is to not ride on the small-smallish combos, as these simply don't work, which is fine by me.
> 
> The 'useful' part about this hack is that it is very unlikely to damage anything, you get all the usually used gears ( how often did you use small-small? ) and all the benefits of using a short cage RD.


The last 2 seasons my 2017 Specialized Hellga(the woman designed version of the fatboy) was a 36/22 20S with a 11-36 cassette. I could use any of the 20 speeds without any noise nor problem. For over 1 season i replaced the cassette with a 11-42 and still all good. From memory my system is SRAM x7 but using it only in winter 99% of the time i use my small front.
I had a 2000 Specialized mountain with 27S XTR and since i have 4 bikes with 1 or 2 or 3 front rings i occasionnaly tried a bad mix and it simply bugged. The bike was great but even if i know not to cross my chain having many different transmission and not using my 27 speeds often i did a rookie mistake. 
Personaly i would not use a 11-46 cassette with 3 rings in front. It is the worst thing i can think of.
Just use sheldon gear calculator to help you with the range that suits you.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Haven't spun on the back but on the steep climbs I try at the park I can flip back and over so I have to let off and sometimes just get off the bike since I can't make the juice to keep going up. Still haven't got the swing to keep my front tire down on the ground plus I have another 13 lbs of backpack not helping the situation. I have a Maxxis High Roller II Dual Compound EXO on the rear with good chunky knobby sides but still experimenting with it. It is a little heavy on dry and works better thru loose gravel, sand. 
Have the Maxxis Ardent TR EXO on front
Might swap them to roll easier on dry.


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## bmoney (Jul 12, 2007)

So is this the most current 11-50 being offered? Is there another version coming out soon?

Ztto SLR Lightweight Wide-Ratio Cassettes for 10 Speed 11 Speed 12 Speed Mountain Bikes (11 Speed 11-50t) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077QHS92R/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CX7PCbQMW36H0


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

bmoney said:


> So is this the most current 11-50 being offered? Is there another version coming out soon?
> 
> Ztto SLR Lightweight Wide-Ratio Cassettes for 10 Speed 11 Speed 12 Speed Mountain Bikes (11 Speed 11-50t) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077QHS92R/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_CX7PCbQMW36H0


Yes.


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

popsjr said:


> I have a Maxxis High Roller II Dual Compound EXO on the rear with good chunky knobby sides but still experimenting with it. It is a little heavy on dry and works better thru loose gravel, sand.
> Have the Maxxis Ardent TR EXO on front
> Might swap them to roll easier on dry.


Wow that's a really backwards tyre combo. The High Roller is possibly the worst rolling tyre I've ever used and the Ardent is the worst gripping. Definitely swap them.


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Thanks, I will have to swap. Noticed the extra drag and more pedal needed. The front Ardent tends to give on sharp turns /dry. Almost like loosing grip. I have front at 40, rear at 50. Maybe I need to drop pressures but got some snake bites on some high curbs with WTB's before these. At 50 I get no bites.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

QingchenHuang said:


> The aluminum cassette have the same material with Sunrace, Al7075. So if you are an avid rider, I don't think aluminum ones are gonna hold. Our full steel CNC version 11-50t cassette already finished the technical adjustment and will be available in about a week. If you choose the traditional full steel version, be aware of back-pedaling, when it happens, please stop pedaling and adjust the chain to right position.


any update on where/ when the new updated all-steel 11-50 11 speed cassette will be avaialble?


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## popsjr (Aug 20, 2018)

Swapped tires today, rode 8 miles but need more time to get feel for difference. Kinda muddy (too muddy) today. More concerned about getting better roll on hard pack. Only thing I like was the one time install, both tires seated perfectly on first try, no egg rolling and no wobble. Wish all tire installs were like this. 
Running front at 30 and rear at 40 for now. Hope to get better tire roll on hard pack
.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

When you go shopping for XD cassettes you really get the feeling that we need more Chinese options for those style of cassettes. Cheapest XD cassette with any range is like $150. 

I will say that it's cool that ZTTO makes a 10-42 full-steel cassette, but I wish they made a 10-46 XD cassette for the same price. I'd buy that. 

SunRace is doing a cool Eagle-ish adapter for some 12-speed cassettes of theirs. It takes an XD driver, mounts an adapter on it, then the cassette rides on that adapter. Although they talked about this last year, I'm not sure when it's supposed to the hit the market.


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## winsail (Dec 27, 2007)

*ZTTO 11 -50 super easy to install*

I just installed one of these ZTTO 11- 50 and the set-up was super easy because I used the videos below. I see the maker of the videos is on this forum. Thank- You they're great!
My set-up
ZTTO 11-50 bought on Amazon latest version $99.00
XT RD M8000 GS Medium Cage rear derailleur
KMC X11SL Gold Chain
FSA SL-K Carbon Modular Bike 392 Evo Crankset 28T single
I needed no goat link like extension but the Cassette came with one by ZTTO.
It did not fit on my derailleur but again I didn't need it.
It assembled easily and if you follow the videos it shifts perfectly and there is no backpedaling issue. I will update my post once I have a bunch of miles on this cassette.
Here are the videos:




 Part 1 of 4




 Part 2 of 4




 Part 3 of 4




 Part 4 of 4


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## TTharkun (Apr 10, 2019)

QingchenHuang, is there intention to manufacture a 12 speed 10-52T cassette?


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## bmoney (Jul 12, 2007)

I just put mine on. It looks like the extender they send with it is for road bikes kind of silly if you ask me. If your going to the effect they might as well but the right style extender in or don’t do it at all.

Also, when people use a Medium XT derailleur are you leaving the clutch in the on or off position? In the on position I struggle to get all of the shifts to run smoothly. I wonder if that is where a goat link would come in handy. Or is it ok to leave the clutch in the off position?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

bmoney said:


> I just put mine on. It looks like the extender they send with it is for road bikes kind of silly if you ask me. If your going to the effect they might as well but the right style extender in or don't do it at all.
> 
> Also, when people use a Medium XT derailleur are you leaving the clutch in the on or off position? In the on position I struggle to get all of the shifts to run smoothly. I wonder if that is where a goat link would come in handy. Or is it ok to leave the clutch in the off position?


A goatlink will help that issue greatly. Check post #66 which shows a xtr med cage with goatlink.


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## bmoney (Jul 12, 2007)

thesmokingman said:


> A goatlink will help that issue greatly. Check post #66 which shows a xtr med cage with goatlink.


That is what I am hoping. One is in being shipped right now.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I do not use a goat link and leave the clutch in the off position. She’s only lost the chain once and the shifting is noticeably easier for her little fingers.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

winsail said:


> I just installed one of these ZTTO 11- 50 and the set-up was super easy because I used the videos below. I see the maker of the videos is on this forum. Thank- You they're great!
> My set-up
> ZTTO 11-50 bought on Amazon latest version $99.00
> XT RD M8000 GS Medium Cage rear derailleur
> ...


Haha glad it helped!


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## corecreak (Apr 11, 2019)

Does anyone have a review for a Ztto *10spd *11-50?

I was ready to buy a Sunrace 11-46 but found this thread and read it with interest. I like the range. Don't mind the jumps. I'd be fine with 7 spd.

I have a 10 spd XT derailleur with a Oneup radr cage installed.

Also I liked the look of the dropper remotes and bought one on Amazon - looking forward to the delivery from China...


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

Just got to install my SLR2 11-50T cassette on my DT240S hub.

Few questions:
1. Anyone noticed the slop and play of the cassette? The original lockring is bad enough I had to change it to a sunrace one. At least the sunrace one doesn't have as much slop after tightening it down.

2. The sync issue is problematic. Anyone managed to get it to go away? If your chain isn't synced, a slight backpedal will totally ruin your drive train.


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

MagicShite said:


> Just got to install my SLR2 11-50T cassette on my DT240S hub.
> 
> Few questions:
> 1. Anyone noticed the slop and play of the cassette? The original lockring is bad enough I had to change it to a sunrace one. At least the sunrace one doesn't have as much slop after tightening it down.
> ...


I'll have to be honest guys, just got on the trails to try it out.

The sync issue makes the entire cassette frankly quite impractical for racing. I can't afford any mis-shifts during racing.

The sync issue happens even when I shift without any load.

It's unfortunate. While I really enjoy what they did to the steps, the narrow wide design simply doesn't work for me.

I guess I'll sell it off and go back to the good old Sunrace. The funny thing is, the Sunrace doesn't have any backpedal issues at all!


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I’m not sure how much of this thread you’ve read but it’s very common for the chain to not seat under load. My daughters bike which we’ve raced all the rounds of the CA mtb series of, including all the training for, has never had the issue under load, but even though it’s well broken in, still does it on the stand. We’ve never had mis-shift while riding since installation. 

I’d say it’s not an issue at all and would encourage you to check your installation and adjustments. It shouldn’t have any slop in it, that part does sound strange, but there is a warranty and I would say the cassette is worth figuring out.


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

MXIV424 said:


> I'm not sure how much of this thread you've read but it's very common for the chain to not seat under load. My daughters bike which we've raced all the rounds of the CA mtb series of, including all the training for, has never had the issue under load, but even though it's well broken in, still does it on the stand. We've never had mis-shift while riding since installation.
> 
> I'd say it's not an issue at all and would encourage you to check your installation and adjustments. It shouldn't have any slop in it, that part does sound strange, but there is a warranty and I would say the cassette is worth figuring out.


I've read this thread for good few times before deciding on the V5 SLR2. While it may be an affordable option for the US folks, it's quite expensive from where I'm from.

Installation and adjustment is what I would deem within specifications. In fact I even cross-checked with the good videos you posted for us.

Unlike the SRAM eagle, when the de-sync happens, it doesn't "lock" back into place. Any load you put in afterwards derails the entire chain. Imagine having to shift when you're doing hard VO2 efforts during steep climbs. It's insane.

My issue also happens when i shift WITHOUT load.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

That’s frustrating for sure. The two cassettes I have only have the sync issues when not under load when on the stand. When riding it hasn’t happened a single time. 

The slop you mentioned doesn’t sound right. Maybe it’s not seated right and the chainline is off? My only other thought is trying another or new chain if you haven’t done so already. 

I promise it’s worth figuring it out 👍👍👍


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

QingchenHuang said:


> Our full steel CNC version 11-50t cassette already finished the technical adjustment and will be available in about a week..


 Is this new version available yet?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Installed the 11sp 11-46 SLR2 cassette. It weighed in at 368gr (including the zip tie and plastic insert) on my scale.

Initial impression is good taking it out of the box. Slid right onto a DT 350 hub body. Lockring tightened up nicely.

Shifting on the stand and riding up and down the street feels pretty decent. I'm using the word decent is because there is a notchy feel when moving up the cassette. I think I'm going to put that on the stiff shifting of the Shimano XT shifter. The shifting on my 11sp X01 and 10sp XT is butter smooth compared to the 11sp XT. I'm going to replace the shift housing this weekend to see if I can alleviate some of that stiff shifting. I also have a new chain I'm going to install too.

Edit: I switched to an XTR M9000 shifter and the stiff shifting went away. It shifts quite smooth now.









Two of the teeth look like they were filed down. Doesn't seem to affect shifting.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Any new XD versions available with wider than 10-42 gearing?


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## FoghornLegburn (Sep 3, 2008)

Just picked up the 11-50t from Amazon. Arrived just as others described and the cassette fit well onto my I9 HG hub.

I have a XT GS rear derailleur and was previously running an XT 11-46t cassette, and bought a Goat Link and a new chain just in case I needed more room. However, I installed the cassette without changing anything just to see what would happen, and it shifts pretty darn well (on the stand, anyways).

Would anyone mind giving me their opinion about whether my chain looks like it needs to be longer or if installing the Goat Link would give me any improvement, based on what you can tell from these two photos? Let me know if you need any more details. FWIW, I still have a bit of play in the derailleur and when I tug on the chain.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

With the chain in the 50T...let all that air out of the shock and compress the rear. That'll tell you if the chain is long enough.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Looks good in the pics 👍


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## GRPABT1 (Oct 22, 2015)

Several rides on my 11-50 cassette thus far and not a single issue to report. Shifts as good as Shimano, slightly better than Sunrace I'd say. No issue with sync on the trails (using an eagle chain). My only concern is the single 9th gear cog that I know will dig into my cassette (which is why I initially tried a Garbaruk before figuring out it's garbarage).


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

QingchenHuang said:


> If you ever seen our Amazon link, you will find out that we provide warranty for one year, that means within one year, we wills send you all the part you need to maintain the cassette functional for free. Even the cassette was damaged by crash or accident. So, there is no need to buy them separately.


Hey man and everyone else.

I am sorry to say it buy my 11-50 version 5 cassette is dead ((((((((((((((

It lasted about 700km and 2.5 months...

It is skipping "teeth" on the cog. So whenever I try to go "faster" it is skipping a few teeth and the chain is jumping.

I thought this was due to bad adjustments or something but I just had it at my local bike shop for just that purpose, adjusting it, and everything looks fine, except for one thing.

I took a deeper inspection of the smaller cogs, it is jumping on gear 9 and 10 IIRC, and after a closer look, it is very clear that a few cogs are "shaved" off. Let's say each tooth is supposed to be square, a few of mine looks like a piece of Toblerone chocolate in the shape of a veeeery sharp triangle.

I can try and post a few pictures later  I bought it from Amazon so I hope there is a chance to get a replacement as its been working great apart from now <3


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## SebastianSWE (Dec 25, 2018)

I contacted ZTTO on Amazon and I believe the proceeded with a refund as I asked for. So customer service is top notch from them!!

pictures wont load............


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

Hi all,

I have a M9000 XTR med cage, new XT chain and want to replace my 11 speed XT 11-46T cassette. I'm running DT Swiss Spline hubs.

Does the new 50t have any shifting issues with this setup? The research I've done suggests not, but want to be certain.

This is the one I'm looking at.

Thanks to all who have contributed to this very useful thread. I'm still not quite sure I believe these cassettes can offer the same performance as big brand options, at reduced weight and similar price. I look forward to finding out


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## UtahJohn (Feb 6, 2014)

I bought a 11sp 10-42 cassette, 3rd and 4th gear broke on the 2nd ride, less than 15 miles of use. :-(


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## bmoney (Jul 12, 2007)

So I have had my 11-50 cassette installed for a few weeks now. Colorado front range trails are my home trails and I also got a few days in Pisgah recently. So I’ve been running though all of the gears. It’s set up with an XT medium cage and SRAM 11 speed chain. With stock cage hardware. 

I tried the goat link because I could not quite get it dialed. But I struggled with that as well. I finally went back the the stock set up and even have the clutch in the on position and with the stock B screw. Play with the clutch tension and B screw at micro turns were the ticket. 

As of right now this system is working as well as my stock 11-46 cassette did beforehand. Happy so far. Just took some patience.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

UtahJohn said:


> I bought a 11sp 10-42 cassette, 3rd and 4th gear broke on the 2nd ride, less than 15 miles of use. :-(


The new steel 10-42 xd driver? Can you post the link you bought it from? I've seen bad reviews of the older, cheaper cassettes but haven't heard a single review on the new steel ones so I'm curious which cassette you purchased.


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## sethius (Apr 22, 2008)

Haven't signed into here for many, many years. But thanks to this thread I've taken a punt on one of these with the oil slick finish to match my stem. Fingers crossed I get 100km out of it!


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## Thiagooo (Aug 28, 2015)

Hey, what's the news? How many km/miles are your cassetes?

My 12s 11-52 - 1800km and for now everything seems ok with it


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Nothing to report here. Everything is functioning as I expect and it’s going to get another 30 or so miles put on it next weekend.


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## wrc2006 (Nov 2, 2007)

Another potential customer interested in 11speed with 46 tooth big gear for the XD driver, Q!
Will you make one?


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## MagicShite (Oct 20, 2015)

So I took out a link from the ZTTO 11-50 SLR2 setup I had and the sync issues became so much better.

But the funny part? Now you can't backpedal on the 44T. You can backpedal on the 50T without any issues, but the 44T instantly drops.

The Narrow Wide 42/50 definitely needs a lot more work. The sunrace cassettes don't even have any of these issues and they don't need Narrow Wide to prevent backpedal drops.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

wrc2006 said:


> Another potential customer interested in 11speed with 46 tooth big gear for the XD driver, Q!
> Will you make one?


I'm pretty sure they have one, look in their store on aliexpress. The one we were asking about was a 10-46 for a hg driver.


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

MXIV424 said:


> I'm pretty sure they have one, look in their store on aliexpress. The one we were asking about was a 10-46 for a hg driver.


Well, a 10 tooth cog on a HG driver's almost certainly a no go, but an all steel cnc'd 10-46 11sp on an XD or an 11-46 11sp HG part would be awesome. So far the only one I've seen is the 10/11-42

Reworking the cog tooth progression and getting the 46t in the mix is no small undertaking, but would be a compelling option.


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## wrc2006 (Nov 2, 2007)

MXIV424 said:


> I'm pretty sure they have one, look in their store on aliexpress. The one we were asking about was a 10-46 for a hg driver.


Maybe I'm searching the wrong way but all I'm seeing for XD is the 11-42.

Mr Q any input on this?


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I looked again and think I saw the 10 speed 11-46 cassette and got it mixed up. My bad!


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## Zomb1e (Nov 1, 2010)

QingchenHuang said:


> If you choose the traditional full steel version, be aware of back-pedaling, when it happens, please stop pedaling and adjust the chain to right position.


Mr.Q, don't you want to upgrade you full steel versions (10 and 11 speed) with large aluminum CNC cog? This wil solve both back-pedaling issues and drops some weight. If cassette price will increase for some $ due to this upgrade, this wouldn't be a problem.


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## Stainomo (Jan 3, 2018)

Does anyone have experience with the M6000 GS derailleur (11-42 spec) and the 10 Speed 11-46T SLR 2 cassette? Is the shift quality near factory or does it deteriorate noticeably? Or with the regular, more heavy, 11-46?

I already have an XTR shifter + M6000 GS derailleur and could use a lower climbing gear but not willing to lose my fast-pedaling gear (32T + 11-42 right now)


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Stainomo said:


> Does anyone have experience with the M6000 GS derailleur (11-42 spec) and the 10 Speed 11-46T SLR 2 cassette? Is the shift quality near factory or does it deteriorate noticeably? Or with the regular, more heavy, 11-46?
> 
> I already have an XTR shifter + M6000 GS derailleur and could use a lower climbing gear but not willing to lose my fast-pedaling gear (32T + 11-42 right now)


get 20 S it is tough to beat


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## b0bg (Apr 27, 2013)

Stainomo said:


> Does anyone have experience with the M6000 GS derailleur (11-42 spec) and the 10 Speed 11-46T SLR 2 cassette? Is the shift quality near factory or does it deteriorate noticeably? Or with the regular, more heavy, 11-46?
> 
> I already have an XTR shifter + M6000 GS derailleur and could use a lower climbing gear but not willing to lose my fast-pedaling gear (32T + 11-42 right now)


Not directly the question you're asking, but I have a 10s GS XT derailleur paired with an 32x11-46T (sunrace) and it shifts perfectly. I did have to install a wolftooth goatlink to get everything sorted, but am perfectly happy with this setup, so getting it working with this cassette should be possible.


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## fxrextreme (Mar 11, 2015)

Hi. Could anyone tell me how long these usually take to ship to UK please?
Kes


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## pwe312 (Dec 18, 2013)

sethius said:


> Haven't signed into here for many, many years. But thanks to this thread I've taken a punt on one of these with the oil slick finish to match my stem. Fingers crossed I get 100km out of it!


How's it working? Thinking of getting one in that color too.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk


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## solarplex (Apr 11, 2014)

wrc2006 said:


> Another potential customer interested in 11speed with 46 tooth big gear for the XD driver, Q!
> Will you make one?


Would love a 10-44 or a 10-46 11 speed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

US $888 | ZTTO Ultimate MTB 11 Speed 9-50T ULT XD Cassette Rainbow 382g Full steel CNC 9T !!! see you next week 
https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c0X72kfO


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## Eneen (Jul 4, 2017)

@QingchenHuang, do you plan to add i-spec ii and i-spec-ev lever options? Or maybe replaceable adapter like one-up has:
https://int.oneupcomponents.com/products/v2-dropper-replacement-small-parts?variant=23377462788177


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

MXIV424 said:


> US $888 | ZTTO Ultimate MTB 11 Speed 9-50T ULT XD Cassette Rainbow 382g Full steel CNC 9T !!! see you next week
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c0X72kfO


$888 ?


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> $888 ?


Pretty sure that's a placeholder and not the actual price. Curious to see what it sells for.

Also, it doesn't look like Mr. Q has logged in since May. Hope he's still around.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Still hoping for a 11sp 10-46 XD.


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## FoghornLegburn (Sep 3, 2008)

As an update, I've had my Ztto 11 speed 11-50t installed for about 3 months. I've found that it does not shift as well as the Shimano cassette it replaced, which had a ton of mileage on it. Specifically, I get hesitation through the midrange, and I seem to be unable to tune it out. 

I took it to my LBS and they pointed out that they'd seen a Ztto before with similar issues. Specifically, they said that they had a hard time getting them to shift smoothly.

I figured I may have just gotten a bad one so have been trying to get in touch with the company, but have not yet had a response. I know they've been responsive on the forum so may just be under water with other requests. Will certainly update this if/when I hear back.

UPDATE: got in contact with the manufacturer through Amazon and they were excellent. Very quick response, and then immediately offered to send a new one out ASAP. Said it would take a couple weeks to arrive since it was coming from China, but it day actually only took 3 days. Great service. Will provide another update when I install to report on whether this one shifts a little better.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

I contacted ZTTO and QingchenHuang no longer works there.


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> $888 😵


$198 now. Picture is impressive. Not that I'll buy.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

MXIV424 said:


> US $888 | ZTTO Ultimate MTB 11 Speed 9-50T ULT XD Cassette Rainbow 382g Full steel CNC 9T !!! see you next week
> https://s.click.aliexpress.com/e/c0X72kfO


Would buy thi sin a heart beat when it comes up, hell I would be happy for a 10-50 11sp with alloy gears for the high ones.

OOPs EDIT I need a HG not XD


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## fmendes (Jun 25, 2016)

Outhouse said:


> Would buy thi sin a heart beat when it comes up, hell I would be happy for a 10-50 11sp with alloy gears for the high ones.
> 
> OOPs EDIT I need a HG not XD


You can't get a 10 tooth cog for Shimano HG. You could, but it won't likely work.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

MXIV424 said:


> I contacted ZTTO and QingchenHuang no longer works there.


I hope he wasn't...you know...terminated.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Have you guys seen this video?






He was pretty thorough with multiple cassettes and rear derailleurs, with and without extenders.

He said pretty much the same thing is many on here: you can't run certain RD's even with an extender with a full-suspension bike and an 11-50t or 11-52t cassette. With a hardtail, if you tune it perfectly, it will probably work but any imperfection will result in the top or bottom cog not working (this is currently happening with my 11-40t 8/9 speed setup with 9-speed SGS RD and an extender --- if I spend a lot of time tuning it, all 8 gears work, otherwise it will often not go into the 11t gear).

He says that the Shimano XT M8000 GS with the extender is good for 11-52t, but for whatever reason the Deore SGS (looks like a 10-speed M6000!?, he didn't say) is even better. He says because the Deore has a slightly longer cage than the XT, which I find strange if the stock Shimano cassettes are up to 11-42t 10-speed and 11-46t 11-speed. Why they would make the Deore with a longer cage to handle 4 less teeth I have no idea. Conversely, why they would make M8000 XT shorter to handle 4 more teeth...

If the tooth number is LESS than 50-52t, the extender makes it WORSE because it can't shift properly into 11t, the same problem I'm having with a smaller 11-40t setup and an SGS 9-speed that has an 11-36t capacity; with the extender it can go to 40t with no issues but has trouble with 11t.

I think I'll play it (relatively) safe and pair the 11-speed XT with the 52t and extender, don't really want to take a gamble on a 10-speed SGS with an 11-speed cassette, regardless of his success in the video.


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## Stalkerfiveo (Feb 24, 2015)

Rich: My GX long cage has always worked very well with 11sp and 50T


I just installed a new version of the ZTTO 11-50 on my enduro bike. The NW 50T definitely fixed the backpedal issues.


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## XC4ME (Jun 10, 2008)

Sunrace now do one. CSMX9 ETZ


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

richj8990 said:


> it will probably work but any imperfection will result in the top or bottom cog not working .


Funny my sunrace 11-50 with the m8000 shifts perfect top and bottom but I get a hesitation down shifting in one spot from the 42-36 shift, its why im looking at the ZTTO cassette. upshifts are all perfect. Ordered the goatlink just to see if that slight improvement fixes this.

Was also tempted to try a 12s chain, some are having luck with those.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I'd be interested in a 10-40 11s for microspline.


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## dwyooaj (Dec 14, 2006)

Any word on the new 11 speed 11-50 all-steel with narrow wide largest cog they said would be out back in april??


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

Stalkerfiveo said:


> Rich: My GX long cage has always worked very well with 11sp and 50T
> 
> I just installed a new version of the ZTTO 11-50 on my enduro bike. The NW 50T definitely fixed the backpedal issues.


As much as I don't like SRAM, I'm ordering a mix of their XX1, XO1, and GX stuff for the 10-50t drivetrain and XD driver wheelset. I already have shifting/tuning issues with Shimano at 11-40t, and decided I don't need them again at 11-52t. I love Shimano but if I'm going 1x for less than $1000 in 2019 it has to be SRAM, for better or worse. I think the whole thing will be about $830 and the entire ad-hoc groupset weighs only 3.41 lbs. I'll weigh each component and verify that for you guys later.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Alright just purchased the 9-50 11s ZTTO and a XD body that fits my straight pull hubs. Now for the 4 week wait for the mail.


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## Cerberus75 (Oct 20, 2015)

Outhouse said:


> Alright just purchased the 9-50 11s ZTTO and a XD body that fits my straight pull hubs. Now for the 4 week wait for the mail.


What hub brand? Wondering if it will fit a Hope XD. Let us know how it shifts.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

Cerberus75 said:


> What hub brand? Wondering if it will fit a Hope XD. Let us know how it shifts.


 powerway m42 straight 28 spoke.

It will fit any XD, im converting my hub to XD just for this cassette. They had xd hub bodys for 45 bucks that make this switch easy. My sunrace 11-50 shifts perfect but its a fine adjustment to keep it that way. Not much leeway one way or another. Its a 1/4 turn away from slowing down a shift on either side.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

I ordered the ZTTO 11-52t 11-speed cassette a couple of weeks ago, not here yet. The offbrand that ZTTO is outsourcing to, a few different names, this particular one is Explopur, sold by Maykalin for $138. I cannot get the right DHL tracking link for the 22-digit tracking number. Called Amazon and they said it's on the way, trust us. If it doesn't work correctly for range (see bottom of post) I can always put on a smaller 2nd chainring (w/o front derailleur) or switch over to XD driver hub and then do the e-thirteen 9-46 cassette. 

It's advertised at 371g, I will weigh it and let you know the real weight. BTW there is a much cheaper 11-50t and 11-52t cassette by Bolany, another offshoot of ZTTO for only $65, it's supposedly 100% steel and the listed weight is 700g. If you don't care about weight, this would be excellent to try out and if it breaks early, $65 is not the end of the world. 

The main complaints about the lighter 11-52t cassette online are that the chain falls off toward the smaller cogs when pedaling backwards (I don't care about that), and that one tooth was broken off the 34t (4th cog) when riding hard. Unlike other large cassettes, the first four cogs are aluminum instead of the first three. That means 52-46-40-34 is aluminum, and you should remember not to stand up on the pedals on the 34t one, I'll try remember to shift into 5th or 6th gear uphill if I plan on standing up on the pedals for a short period of time instead of the longer seat crawl uphill with cogs 1-4. 

Last but not least, as Uzurpator stated in his video about these cassettes: if you are using an extender for them, make sure the chain can slide into 11t as well as the largest 50t or 52t cog. I've noticed with an extender that upshifting into smaller cogs takes longer than downshifting into larger cogs, even if it's physically harder at first with the downshift trigger. The system has to do more work upshifting because the extender puts the rear derailleur down further towards the larger cogs and away from the smaller ones, so it has to bend back more than it was designed for to reach 11t. If you can't get the chain into the 11t cog after messing with the tuning, try taking off the extender to see if that helps (and then of course you will have the opposite problem with the largest cog, 
you may need to pull the cable really tight, adjust b-screw, etc.).


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

richj8990 said:


> .#1 cannot get the right DHL tracking link for the 22-digit tracking number.
> 
> #2 main complaints about the lighter 11-52t cassette online are that the chain falls off toward the smaller cogs when pedaling backwards
> 
> ...


#1 amazon is like that for overseas shipments, you will be fine. Out of 4 shipments from Cn one got held up in NY customs, the rest came very quickly. Some you cannot track, amazon is the worst.

#2 been addressed on newer design ZTTO cassette, as stated in this thread if you read it from beginning.

#3that has all been corrected IF you buy their latest models, there were 3-4 revisions. If you cannot stand up you don't buy it period. All your issues have been addressed on the current ones.

#4 so most 50T's require a goatlink to help shifting on any brand of cassette. My sunrace 11-50 only had issues in 3rd from largest, not the 11t or 50t which was perfect, when O bought the goat link it corrected the issue. B screw does have to be adjusted about 5mm from guide wheel to cog, and chain length perfect, and shifting can be very clean.

Ill have my 9-50 in a few weeks and will report back here on all or any possible issues.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Randomly came across these on eBay,

Seems like ZTTO released a couple more cassettes in 11 and 12 speed. Price looks pretty low too...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MTB-Bicycl...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.com/itm/12-Speed-C...a=0&pg=2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

I got to use the 11sp 11-46 SLR2 and I'm pretty happy with the way it shifts. I like the gearing with the 30T on my 27.5 bike. It gives the same low gear as a 30/50 on a 29r.


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## jmark (Sep 21, 2019)

hi!! I'm new here I would like to try this new ztto 11-50 slr2 cassette but now I'm running SRAM GX 11-speed derailleur it would work on my current setup??? and for the chain what is the recommended chain for this cassette and SRAM GX 12speed chain will work??


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## OneTrustMan (Nov 11, 2017)

jmark said:


> hi!! I'm new here I would like to try this new ztto 11-50 slr2 cassette but now I'm running SRAM GX 11-speed derailleur it would work on my current setup??? and for the chain what is the recommended chain for this cassette and SRAM GX 12speed chain will work??


With the your current GX 11 I would go with the ZTTO 11-46.
I run a NX with a Sunrace 11-46 and it works great, not so sure about a 50T cog.
And 12-Speed chains work great with 11 speed drivetrains.
I do this too.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

OneTrustMan said:


> Sunrace 11-46 and it works great, not so sure about a 50T cog.
> .


11-50 sunrace is a great cassette. It is heavy but it will last. Not sure I would chance it on the cheap ztto with 3 alloy gears I use a lot.

at first they said the 9-50 ztto was all steel, now some sites are saying the 50t is alloy, wont be sop bad since im not using that gear as much. Still gets used almost daily.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

The 11sp GX (or any Sram 11sp) is hit or miss once you go beyond the 46T. I've seen some work and some not. It'll come down to the geometry of the derailleur hanger. IME...the 11sp Sram works best when it doesn't go above the 46T. I have a 44T (with X1 Sram) and the b screw is pretty close to being maxed out. If you want to go beyond the 46...Garbaruk has a derailleur cage that can take a 50T.


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## jmark (Sep 21, 2019)

thanks


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

ZTTO 9-50 shifts terrible on stand, and back peddling the chain falls off on the 50t.


the Sunrace 11-50 did not fall off the 50t chain. And shift perfectly.


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## TheLittle (May 8, 2009)

I honestly think that there is a large market for a reasonably priced 10-46 or even 10-50 11 speed cassete. Lots of people upgraded to 11 speed drivetrains with XD drivers on the SRAM 1x uprising, but see no reason to upgrade to 12 speed except the range, wich can be solved sizing the cassete as 10-50 (maybe 10-46 or 10-48 is even beter to avoid using long cages)

Dont think 9 teeth is the thing, it gets worn too fast if used much and very less chain is in contact with the cassete when engaged on it.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

TheLittle said:


> Dont think 9 teeth is the thing, it gets worn too fast if used much and very less chain is in contact with the cassete when engaged on it.


Would love the 9t,but cannot get it to shift correcty


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

All what's the latests reviews/feedback on their 11-50 cassette? I see a few versions. All steel, SLR, SLR 2. What are the reports on any of those models?

Are people buying from Amazon or AliExpress?


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## KGAmoto (Aug 6, 2008)

smoothmoose said:


> All what's the latests reviews/feedback on their 11-50 cassette? I see a few versions. All steel, SLR, SLR 2. What are the reports on any of those models?
> 
> Are people buying from Amazon or AliExpress?


I have 900+ miles on mine - on my second chain with this cassette - and no issues. Not sure which version mine is but the top portion is alloy; all of it is black. I bought it through amazon At $99. For the money, I have no complaints. Shifting to the 50 when it was new, was rough but that went away.

I put a new chain on at 700 miles and now shifting in the middle of the cassette isn't great but I probably should not have paired it with a ZTTO chain or swapped the chain at 500 miles instead.

Overall it's a great option for range, low weight and price.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

smoothmoose said:


> All what's the latests reviews/feedback on their 11-50 cassette? I see a few versions. All steel, SLR, SLR 2. What are the reports on any of those models?
> 
> Are people buying from Amazon or AliExpress?


Not a lot of positive reviews, and now they have the pro maybe ultimate version that the chain wont fall off when backpeddling.

They started out at 199 then went to 180, now they cant sell them so price has dropped to 99. I had no issue with the 50 t in any way, but the lower small cogs just didn't shift weith 2 different new chains and 3 different derailleurs 2 m8000 and a 7100 12s which made it semi usable. But compared to my eagle cassette it is a night and day difference in shifting quality.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Just what i need. Going to try one on my new AF build for sure to replace heavy ass nx cassette.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Ours are running just fine.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Hmmm, my Sunrace 11-42 runs smoothly. Was looking for more range on my gravel bike and likely will need to to swap a longer rear derailleur cage.

Sounds like the 150g savings might not be worth it and probably stick with Sunrace.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

smoothmoose said:


> All what's the latests reviews/feedback on their 11-50 cassette? I see a few versions. All steel, SLR, SLR 2. What are the reports on any of those models?
> 
> Are people buying from Amazon or AliExpress?


If you're asking about the 11sp cassettes...I'd get the 46T. Once you go beyond that...the shifting performance becomes hit or miss.

I paid $95 for the 11-46 SLR 2 back in April. They are now ~76 in Aliexpress.


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## xprmntl (Oct 4, 2006)

For backshifting issues, I've found that the SRAM chains perform much better than Shimano on these off-brand cassettes. I believe the directionality of the Shimano chains is part of the problem. My two data points are on the Sunrace MX3 11-46T and the Garbaruk 10-50T XD. YMMV.


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## sissypants (Sep 7, 2016)

xprmntl said:


> For backshifting issues, I've found that the SRAM chains perform much better than Shimano on these off-brand cassettes. I believe the directionality of the Shimano chains is part of the problem. My two data points are on the Sunrace MX3 11-46T and the Garbaruk 10-50T XD. YMMV.


ZTTO also makes their own chains. They might be worth a look. My ZTTO chain that came with the 12-speed Pro ULT groupset is very respectable and I like it a lot. It is bidirectional, like a SRAM chain, not unidirectional, like a Shimano chain, as xprmntl points out. It also has an interesting contour on the inside of the inner link plates which I'm not sure if that's significant or not.


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

sissypants said:


> ZTTO also makes their own chains. .


the new ztto rep came in here and said its to be expected, and if you buy the new pro ultimate, their new revision, they have corrected it.

xwait 5 months and prices will fall drastically on the pro, me I went eagle gx and it was the best decision I made on both of my chiner 29ers


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

Installed today the new ztto 11-50 slr2. The new version should be slightly more durable as the weight is 368 instead the previous 350.
Coming from a sunrace light 11-50 (520gr) 3700km is still in good shape but want to try something different... sunrace was not really really precise(as my native xt 11-42). Sunrace has always the problem that shifting down from 42 to 36 was not working well. And i always hear the chain a metal rubbing rumor when in the 42.

The ztto was a surprise! Nothing changed from shift settings, works perfect in all gears! Also shifting down from 44 to 38 work great!!!
Went out for a 30km ride...shifting was perfect all the time!!! It seems a shimano xt!!! 
I only hope that it will last long and the shifting performance will remain the same.

My configuration is xt m8000 sg medium cage with wolftooth cage( that move the jockey pulley back, so it goes in the large cogs easly. The b tension screw is only slightly more turned in than the previous 11-42.)
Try at the beginning the shimano sgs long cage, but never had a good shifting performance. Wolftooth cage in the medium cage is 100times better!


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

zambo78 said:


> The ztto was a surprise!


Your one of the lucky ones, most do not shift well and chain falls off back peddling.

The M8000 is not a good shifter for a 50T cog even with the goatlink, I tried 2 new ones and could not get it to shift well using the 9-50 cassette , I was using the long cage, and I see you tried medium cage.

I went to the m7100 and it shifted night and day better, but still not good enough to use on the trails, like your sunrace my small cogs would not shift well, even with the new derailleur made for large and small cogs. I went to all eagle 12s and now have shifting like butter


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## zambo78 (Mar 2, 2018)

The real difference is the wolftooth cage that move the upper pulley back(as the eagle 12 and shimano 12).
Without the wolfcage it was also for me impossible to have good shifting in the small cogs.
No goat link for me...wolfcage let the upper pulley to have correct distance from the 50T, but is still near the small cogs and shift perfect.

Ordered a 12T (instead of the 11) for the lower tension pulley...this in theory should be even better for this configuration


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## zooky (Jan 24, 2021)

How is everyone’s cassettes going these days?


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## TheLittle (May 8, 2009)

I recently bought a XD 9-50 Sunshine Cassete, the cheapest (60USD) all black one. In fact I bought 3 of them because I tought its the perfect solution with great range and cheap.

Some time later, the rivets that fix the smalest 4 cogs start to break in 2 of the cassetes, making them useless unfortunately. The design is very poor and the rivets dont stand for the forces involved.

If you are interested I could post some pictures of them.


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## usernamehere (Mar 19, 2009)

My ztto has been and remains fantastic- would buy again 


zooky said:


> How is everyone's cassettes going these days?


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

TheLittle said:


> If you are interested I could post some pictures of them.


Please do.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Awesome.
Both cassettes on my wife’s bike and daughters hardtail are still perfect.
The e13 I had on my bike wore out and I replaced it with the Ztto 11 speed 9-46 xs instead.


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## MXIV424 (May 30, 2018)

Xd not xs


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## Outhouse (Jul 26, 2019)

zooky said:


> How is everyone's cassettes going these days?


still sitting on a shelf, after failing to shift cleanly after trying 3 different new shimano derailleurs 2 8000 with and without wolfstooth, and a 7100 that did a better job, but would not shift clean under load


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## zooky (Jan 24, 2021)

TheLittle said:


> I recently bought a XD 9-50 Sunshine Cassete, the cheapest (60USD) all black one. In fact I bought 3 of them because I tought its the perfect solution with great range and cheap.
> 
> Some time later, the rivets that fix the smalest 4 cogs start to break in 2 of the cassetes, making them useless unfortunately. The design is very poor and the rivets dont stand for the forces involved.
> 
> If you are interested I could post some pictures of them.


Damn! Yes please do post pics



usernamehere said:


> My ztto has been and remains fantastic- would buy again


Excellent!



MXIV424 said:


> Awesome.
> Both cassettes on my wife's bike and daughters hardtail are still perfect.
> The e13 I had on my bike wore out and I replaced it with the Ztto 11 speed 9-46 xs instead.


Good to hear. Do they ride often?



Outhouse said:


> still sitting on a shelf, after failing to shift cleanly after trying 3 different new shimano derailleurs 2 8000 with and without wolfstooth, and a 7100 that did a better job, but would not shift clean under load


Damn!


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## zooky (Jan 24, 2021)

Have you guys been pairing the cassettes with the ZTTO Rear Derailleur?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

zooky said:


> How is everyone's cassettes going these days?


Holding up just fine.


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## Eneen (Jul 4, 2017)

What about 11sp 11-50 ULT? Has anyone tried it?


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

Using ZTTO 11-50 ultra lite 10 spd. So far working flawlessly. No back pedal issues, shifts as good or better than (you name it). Setup: Advent X shifter and derailuer, ZTTO 10 spd 11-50 cassette. Still early and I use this for bikepacking. Will update a few months down the line. Or sooner if it shits.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

RS VR6 said:


> If you're asking about the 11sp cassettes...I'd get the 46T. Once you go beyond that...the shifting performance becomes hit or miss.
> 
> I paid $95 for the 11-46 SLR 2 back in April. They are now ~76 in Aliexpress.



That's true, however the Shimano M5100 11-speed RD seems to have fixed everything. Not many miles on it right now so I'll have to see how it is when the chain, 11-52t cassette and RD all have a few hundred miles on them. But it shifts 1 to 11 and back with no issues so far, cage doesn't sound stressed in the upper two cogs like the XT M8000 does.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

I bought a 2021 Giant bike it is 10 S with an 11/46 and it is perfect for my needs.
I can climb and i like the spacing. I bought 2 chains so i am ready for many months.


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

Anyone tried the new all steel 11 speed 11~42 cassettes? They make both XD and HG versions. I“m thinking of trying one out because my SRAM Xx1 is due for replacemen.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

pcmark said:


> Anyone tried the new all steel 11 speed 11~42 cassettes? They make both XD and HG versions. I“m thinking of trying one out because my SRAM Xx1 is due for replacemen.


I have not but i would never go for 11S with small range. Now i love my 10S 11/46 and i also loved
my 10S 11/42 on my previous bike.


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## pcmark (Jul 10, 2010)

33red said:


> I have not but i would never go for 11S with small range. Now i love my 10S 11/46 and i also loved
> my 10S 11/42 on my previous bike.


I do have a bike with an 11-46 cassette and it’s great with a 30t chainring. My other bike has a 28t chainring and the 11-42 cassette is enough range for me. For me, the appeal is having a steel 42t large cog since even the SRAM at twice the price is alloy. This should be a long lasting cassette assuming the construction is up to par.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

DougA said:


> Using ZTTO 11-50 ultra lite 10 spd. So far working flawlessly. No back pedal issues, shifts as good or better than (you name it). Setup: Advent X shifter and derailuer, ZTTO 10 spd 11-50 cassette. Still early and I use this for bikepacking. Will update a few months down the line. Or sooner if it shits.


 A couple hundred miles in and still perfect. Please Note, this is the 10spd. I'll update again. I'm stoked on this. So far.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

DougA said:


> A couple hundred miles in and still perfect. Please Note, this is the 10spd. I'll update again. I'm stoked on this. So far.


What is the weight? I bought a 2021 Giant with a Deore 10S 11/46 and after 3 months all is good.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

33red said:


> What is the weight? I bought a 2021 Giant with a Deore 10S 11/46 and after 3 months all is good.


368g on my seemingly pretty accurate home scale.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

That is better than mine. I hope it lasts.
I just bought 2 chains to help mine lasts.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

DougA said:


> A couple hundred miles in and still perfect. Please Note, this is the 10spd. I'll update again. I'm stoked on this. So far.


I'm approx 500 miles into it. Pretty harsh bikepacking trip last week. Still flawless.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

A little dated reply but 800 miles in and my frame broke. Cassette is still flawless in trail and bikepacking duty and runs great on the Advent X shifter and derailleur. Will go on the new frame when it arrives someday.

In the meantime on my fat bike bike I've removed the 2x drivetrain and gone to the ZTTO 11/52 with 28t chainring. Shimano 11 speed shifter sucked and went to Microshift. Shifts well but weird with pull only upshifting. I hope Microshift comes out with something like Advent X for 11spd. Advent X1? . Shimano RD with longer B screw from hardware store. Low miles so far but long bikepack coming up. Will update.


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## DougA (Apr 3, 2008)

DougA said:


> In the meantime on my fat bike bike I've removed the 2x drivetrain and gone to the ZTTO 11/52 with 28t chainring. Shimano 11 speed shifter sucked and went to Microshift. Shifts well but weird with pull only upshifting. I hope Microshift comes out with something like Advent X for 11spd. Advent X1? . Shimano RD with longer B screw from hardware store. Low miles so far but long bikepack coming up. Will update.


Wow. I think I might have found my unicorn drivetrain. I liked the above drivetrain so much I repeated it on my boost spaced 29+ trail/bikepacking rig except used the shimano shifter. The Microshift shifter is definitely smoother pull but because the chainline is a little better on the boost bike than the fatty, the Shimano works fine. Still not enough miles on the ZTTO cassette to proclaim durabilty but absolutely no issues at 500+ miles on the fatty. Only a few miles on the boost 29 plusser. Will update.


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