# DJ , Pump Track plans



## Flboy (Mar 18, 2008)

My freinds and I are going to build a DJ park and a Pump track. I have been doing a lot of research trying to find the best set I can find. So does anyone have and good suggestions of webpages or any links that could help me out. I did get the e-book from leelikesbikes.com. 

Thanks


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## East Bay Rich (Jan 24, 2004)

Flboy said:


> My freinds and I are going to build a DJ park and a Pump track. I have been doing a lot of research trying to find the best set I can find. So does anyone have and good suggestions of webpages or any links that could help me out. I did get the e-book from leelikesbikes.com.
> 
> Thanks


I think the best advise I could give you is to get a* solid commitment* from your friends that you all will put in the hours to dig. When you start a line, really plan it out and put some thought and measurments into it. Digging w/ a crew is always much easier. 5-6 people can really make something from a pile of dirt.
-ebR


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## Mwehahaha (Oct 3, 2006)

East Bay Rich said:


> I think the best advise I could give you is to get a* solid commitment* from your friends that you all will put in the hours to dig. When you start a line, really plan it out and put some thought and measurments into it. Digging w/ a crew is always much easier. 5-6 people can really make something from a pile of dirt.
> -ebR


true that


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## GotMojo? (Mar 25, 2004)

Good advice so far. And don't underestimate the amount of time and effort you need to put in even after your done building. My pump track has required a lot of maintenance just to keep it rideable. And I seem to always want to build some new lines once I get bored with it. 

So I guess what I'm saying is, you really are never finished building a pump track.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

the Leelikesbikes "Welcome to Pump Track Nation" is written well, BUT . . the thing people don't realize is that it is primarily intended for backyards. if you have a lot of space, like a public park, do* not* build a small 30 ft. X 70ft. oval or figure 8 pump track. that is not what mtb/bmx is all about !! that's a backyard pump track.

SO, lemme just give you some points that I think are essential to a good mtbmx spot.

1. if you are on flat ground, you MUST build a large starting hill, like at a bmx track. there is nothing as lame as having to crank from a standstill.

2. build at least 3 different jump lines with different heights and gaps. the standard bmx skatepark box jump in the old days was 4' tall with an 8' or 10' deck. that is an excellent size for a lot of riding levels. the difficulty has more to do with the mellowness or steepness of the transitions than with the size. for example, in the picture below, is 3 tabletops in a row. the height is probably somewhere between 3'6" on the first one and maybe 4'5" on the last one. the lip to landing gaps should match up pretty closely, unless you're going down hill. you don't want a short jump followed by a long one, or the reverse.
a 7-8 foot lip to landing gap is very easy. 9-10 is normal/intermediate. 11-12 is getting big (unless your transitions are mellow and it's easy to carry some distance. 13+ is intermediate/advanced level. for that to be fun, you MUST be on a decline slope, or have a BIG starting hill to drop in from.









3. space your rollers appropriately. 
the rollers you see in the picture below on the left are spaced 13-14 ft. peak to peak. this is typical bmx race track style. you can gain speed, manual through them etc.










4. TABLES are good for beginner and intermediate scenes. if you want more people to show up (and potentially help in the future), build stuff they can ride. this table about 13 or 14 feet from lip to landing. note how deck of table transitions with a curve into the landing. this is good for beginners who are gonna tag their back wheel pretty hard.










5. public city/neighborhood spots should not be built by hand. if the city ok's a dirt jump spot, get someone to rent a bobcat and do all the fundamental work with heavy machinery. most beginner jump spots die before they get started because of the sheer amount of digging it takes to make an awesome spot.

6. resist the urge to make every jump look like a skatepark quarterpipe--one line of steep tranny jumps is cool, but build the others with mellow. you will get plenty of air and it will be a lot smoother. 









7. avoid the mistake of small landings. landings are actually more important than launches. you want something that is big and long, starts steep at the top, but has mellow transition at the bottom. here is a typical beginner mistake. a 13' gap but the landing has barely enough surface to get the wheelbase of your bike on. 









this is one of the big sets. around 18 feet lip to landing lip gap. but look how big the landing is. tons of transition to land on.







. the more transition you have to land on, no matter how big the jump, the more the jumps will have flow. flat ground is your enemy. rhythm comes from having back to back transitions. inclines, declines, curves.

hope that helps.


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## Flboy (Mar 18, 2008)

great pic's and advidce cmc4130 and as far as commitment goes we have got it. This going to be on private property and the land owner came to us to build the park, well it was a mutual coming together. He wants a track and we want a track. We already have the use of bobcats and other heavy equipment. I am trying to find some guidence into build the jumps properly and suggestions of good flow lines. Thanks agin for the great advice on spacing and landings. I know there are a bunch of us MTB's who have done this and know some things to do and not to do.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Here are some plans:

https://www.chuckfurlong.com/SundaysTrails/design.html

These are out of date. The place is no longer called Sundays trails, and the jumps didn't end up being built exactly as you see in the plans.

Also check out Progressive Park Design's plans for the Texas X-Park dirt section:
https://www.progressiveparkdesign.com/Texas_X_Park_Dirt.pdf .

1. RHYTHM SPACING. If you're going to do a rhythm line of jumps (meaning back to back jumps where you have to land smooth to have a good pump to jump the next one), spacing is very important.
The top of the first landing to the lip of the next jump needs to be somewhere between double and triple the gap distance of the jumps. So, if you have a line of 10 foot gap jumps, the landing-to-next-lip distance should be at least 20 ft. That will feel tight. 25ft. is about normal. And 30ft. is plenty of room. These tables are spaced around 25-28 feet. If you do the math, this will also tell you how much room you'll need for a 5 sets of doubles in a row. Big drop in (probably covers 15 feet of the flat ground), at least 30 feet to crank, 10 foot gap, 25 ft pit, 10 ft. gap, 25 ft pit, 10, 25, 10, 25, 10, 25, then some kind of berm to turn around (covering another 15 ft or so). So add it up, that means you need roughly 220 - 250 ft. 80 yards. 









2. CONSTRUCTION.
(a) If you have to dig dirt by hand, consider using large objects like solid stacks of logs, railroad ties, bricks/cinder blocks, etc. It will go so much faster, and you'll have a solid under-structure. If you're using logs, the base of the jump has to be a lot wider than you want it at the top, because dirt has a tendency to become mountain shaped.... [EDIT in 2020: Don't go out of your way to bring in objects like logs if they're not readily available; the time it takes to dig the equivalent amount of just-dirt makes it not worth the time to get that stuff just to bury it. Also, don't bury what would be considered trash. When it becomes exposed, people think your spot looks like a dump.]

(b) If you're buying dirt, you can use cheap fill dirt for most of the jump, ESPECIALLY if you're building tables, then put a layer of sandy loam with clay content, or some other kind of clay mixture. In my area, the natural black clay soil is perfect by itself. If you pack it really well, when it dries, it's like cement.

(c) Watering the jumps will prevent the surface cracking and crumbling. So you need to think about where you'll get your water.


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## adamtb (Mar 31, 2008)

I nominate this thread for sticky status!

Fantastic info.

who can make it happen?


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## TXneedmountain (Feb 14, 2007)

awesome write ups there cmc4130 good info. I agree with the stickage


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

_A few words about pump tracks, pump-jump tracks, and mid-school bmx rhythm sections....._

1. To take a pump track to the next level, you'll want to move beyond the Leelikesbikes.com designs and build something that looks a lot more like a mini-bmx track. Back to back table tops, lots of rollable doubles, launch-transfers etc.

2. Take a look at this classic 1990's SoCal BMX spot known as Sheep Hills. Watch the very first line. What you'll notice is how the lips are not more than 3 feet off ground level, but the pits are at least 2 feet or more deep--meaning they feel more like 5 foot tall doubles. The cool thing about having landing pits that are bowls with zero flat space is that it makes your rhythm section really smooth. (The bad thing is if you live in a rainy climate, they fill up with water). You can have back to back doubles very close together, but because of the constant transitions you get amazing flow. ** SO, consider using the same concept in your pump track.


3. Here's another example of back to back low-to-the-ground doubles with deep pits. It was known as the Graveyard section at 9th street.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

bump


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## emeriska (Aug 19, 2008)

I CALL STICKY!

nice post


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## droptopchevy (Sep 3, 2008)

This is a good reference point for ideas.
Just posting so I can find this for easy reference.


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## win brooks (Dec 11, 2007)

why the **** is there nothing like that where i live


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## aeffertz91 (Aug 20, 2007)

Stuff like this just doesn't magically appear...
It takes hard work and dedication.

Obviously everyone where you live is fat and lazy.


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## droptopchevy (Sep 3, 2008)

I was just about to say, Get out there and make something like it. That's what I'm doing.

All you need is a shovel, dirt, and a tamper. Oh and a lot of manpower helps.


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## cjcc55 (May 3, 2008)

is what cmc4130 posted a jump pump track compared to rhythm pump track?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

cjcc55 said:


> is what cmc4130 posted a jump pump track compared to rhythm pump track?


yes.

rhythm pump tracks in my opinion get boring. if it's not designed to have jumpable aspects to it, it is almost pointless.

the way you space rollers and pits matters A LOT to whether it's a jump-pump track or pump only.


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## dropthehammer (Jul 7, 2006)

Walk thru the progression of this thread: Joe's Jump Farm


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

this spot is the perfect example of jump/pump. 




bmx'ers would just say it's trails and everything is rollable.

the rollable factor is key for bringing new people into the scene. old guys, chicks, groms etc. (if thats what you want).


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

CMC, I really like the looks of your track in Austin, and also the last post about the jump/pump track. I have the pump track nation book and I am in the planning stage for building a jump/pump track. Do you have a layout for the austin track? It looks like some of it is sloping down hill. My lot has a large flat upper section and then drops down in three different tiers. My plan was to build the track on the upper portion but after looking at some of these threads I am considering some alternate lines that drop down into the lower tiers. I see how you can use the progressively bigger rollers to go up hill, but how steep of an incline can you climb back up with pumping only?


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## Prime8 (Apr 19, 2004)

out of curiosity, and since i'll be ordering my dirt and hauling it in. How many yards of dirt is that table jump?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> CMC, I really like the looks of your track in Austin, and also the last post about the jump/pump track. I have the pump track nation book and I am in the planning stage for building a jump/pump track. Do you have a layout for the austin track? It looks like some of it is sloping down hill. My lot has a large flat upper section and then drops down in three different tiers. My plan was to build the track on the upper portion but after looking at some of these threads I am considering some alternate lines that drop down into the lower tiers. I see how you can use the progressively bigger rollers to go up hill, but how steep of an incline can you climb back up with pumping only?


heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is: 



 there's no question, if YOU build it, they will come.

to answer your question, you should definitely use natural terrain ups and downs. it's more challenging, but in the end it is way more fun.

for going up a slight incline or gaining speed from a slow speed consider an accelerating rollers design:









another thing i learned was that you want a big radius to turn 90 degrees at the bottom of a decline, but then a tight radius turn as you turn to go back up an incline. nothing kills speed like a big radius berm that goes up hill.

if you want to make rollers more jumpable, pair up the rollers, instead of spacing them evenly. pace out all your peaks. if you're not digging down bowls/pits, you'll need a lot more dirt. remember these are not speedbumps, you're creating a wave pattern on the ground--no flat space !! always make rollers bubbled over, not peaky.




























more here:

*"pump tracks"* thread on ridemonkey https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217062


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## crazy Jim (Mar 31, 2005)

I would like to point out one thing that has been kinda overlooked. after building one obstacle, ride it to get an idea how much speed you'll have and where you want to start building the next. after building the next, ride both to see if they flow correctly. if they do you will not have to pedal, brake(check-up) or struggle to make the second set, it should come naturally. thirdly, it is nice to see a slight increase in speed after landing each set. dont make the mistake of getting in a hurry and throwing up a bunch of jumps and then having to move all of them to make it work. also have patience, I know guys that will spend a week building a lip, another week or more on the lander and then after riding it they end up tearing it down and moving it to make the flow better.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Prime8 said:


> out of curiosity, and since i'll be ordering my dirt and hauling it in. How many yards of dirt is that table jump?


just do the math... length X width X height = volume

1 cubic yard is 27 cubic feet.

account for dirt being packed versus loose.

the box area in the middle (the deck) would be 12 feet long, average of 5 wide (4 wide at the top, 6 wide at the bottom), and 4 feet tall. then add on a rough 8 X 5 X 4 for the launch and landing part. 14 cubic yards. multiply by 1.3 to account for loose versus packed...
total = ROUGHLY 18 cubic yards. which is a LOT. a whole dump truck load.


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

cmc4130 said:


> heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> cmc4130 said:
> 
> 
> > heh hheh. those weren't "my" track. but this is:
> ...


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

I want to build something with alot of different options. The outer track with the inner track seems like a good idea, I guess right now I am just caught up in design phase, trying to work out some fun transfers, Trying to work in s turns and different transfer options. I have watched the videos of the peacock pitt and that place looks awesome, i only wish there was a layout of that track that I could see. I don't want to copy someone else's design, but having never built anything like this I can sure use some ideas. I took some measurements of the property and the upper section is about 60' x 124' and level, it drops down about 4' to a large second tier that is about 90' x 124' sloping 2' from the fron to the back. I have alot to work with.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

crazy Jim said:


> . . . . after building one obstacle, ride it to get an idea how much speed you'll have and where you want to start building the next. after building the next, ride both to see if they flow correctly. . . . . .





Dr boo boo said:


> . . . I guess right now I am just caught up in design phase, trying to work out some fun transfers, . . . .


even though i love designing stuff on paper and master planning, jim is right, you also just gotta start diggin, then ride it and go from there.

certain basic principles apply, but if you're dealing with nautral terrain gradients, you have to adapt... use the decline areas as landings or drop-ins. use rollers to get up gradients. use small radius 6-9ft. for slow speed turns where you need the berm to help you generate speed. use larger radius berm 13-15ft to soak up speed at the bottom of a decline.

careful with 180 berms--an 8 foot radius on a 90 degree berm is a great medium size turn, but an 8 foot radius on a 180 berm will feel tight and technical, because of increasing G's as you go around. go carve around in some cement skatepark bowls to get an idea of what different bowl-corner transitions feel like.

so get started and post some pics.


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## hankthespacecowboy (Jun 10, 2004)

Great info in this thread! My roommate and I are working on a backyard pumptrack. It's in a pretty small area (approx. 30x30). We've got it to where it pumps all the way around, but I'd like to get it to where we can catch some air. Any ideas? (Already working on a bigger drop-in).


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

yikes. 30 X 30 is small... honestly if that was my yard i'd be more inclined to build a skate/bmx half-pipe. you can definitely get air then...

you don't even have room for a steep drop in then dirt jump and berm. you need 10 feet at least for the drop in, 10 feet for the berm, and that doesn't give you enough space for a double.


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

I guess I am kind of stuck in the planning stage. I would rather put some time into the planning then to start off without a plan, All the info I have got from this post has really been helpful, especially from CMC. Thanks. I will definetly post up progress pictures when I start. I got a good line on some dirt from a contractor in the area, I will only have to pay for the hauling and not the dirt. I only wish I had my own bobcat for the work. I have been trying to find a good used one to buy for my business, no luck yet on that.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

example of pit/bowl style of building. the dirt from the pit you're riding in is used to build the rollers/rollable-double or table before and after it. the advantage is the track become more a part of the terrain and requires less digging because as the pit gets dug down, the effective height of the jump goes up. only drawback is pits fill up with water. so you have to consider drainage.

this spot is just getting started, but we got in a good dig today...


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## jenks (Oct 10, 2006)

www.thegardenjumps.com

This has been the summer project here in Chicago. We have part that is pretty big DJs and part that is a pumptrack with smallish tables. It really caters to everyone and is IMO more fun than a basic jump park (start hill and a few jumps then back to the start hill) You can see the design for each part on the website.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

jenks said:


> www.thegardenjumps.com
> 
> This has been the summer project here in Chicago. We have part that is pretty big DJs and part that is a pumptrack with smallish tables. It really caters to everyone and is IMO more fun than a basic jump park (start hill and a few jumps then back to the start hill) You can see the design for each part on the website.


jumps and website effing well done !


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## jenks (Oct 10, 2006)

Thanks, we have worked very hard on these jumps. As for the website, I cannot take any credit for that, we have a guy that is a wiz with that sort of thing.


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

I checked out the website, great job! That looks like a fun place to ride. I finally started laying out my pump/jump track. I'm not sure if it will be the final layout. I think I will work out a few more ideas on paper. I'll post up the proposed layouts to see if anyone has any suggestions.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

as another guy from the garden let me add in another couple of tidbits.

DON'T stack the jumps full of junk to save dirt. in years past we've done that, and its always come back to haunt us. slowly but surly its all getting pulled out and new stuff is being built pure dirt. your going to change/modify almost everything, and if you need to push a lip back your unholy screwed when you start hitting those cinder blocks. if you stack it full of wood, after several years its going to degrade. especially don't do it with berms.

keep drainage in mind from the getgo to avoid trouble spots and be aware of what techniques you can employ to address your trouble spots, such as french drains.

plan as well as you can, but understand that all plans will require some revision.

build a variety of lines that can appeal to a variety of talent levels. incorporate some nice tables into your pumptrack, build some bigger tables near your main line of doubles. this will encourage progression and it will encourage even the dudes that aren't hitting the big stuff to put in shovel time on the big stuff, they'll consider it an investment in their future.

don't screwup the trees. don't cut down healthy trees. they add character and are a life long asset, work the jumps around and through the trees, rhythm jumps don't need to be straight. learn some basic arborist techniques and prune the trees as necessary, don't just hack them up or break them off, get a saw and use it appropriately.

make sure your crew is willing to spend time ridding and digging, but also doing all the rest of the important stuff like patching, tree trimming, watering, sweeping and cleaning up the garbage.

build your jumps in a sustainable location, not some obviously outlaw spot that is going to get torn down next spring. go legit if possible and involve the community and your local IMBA chapter. chances are, your local IMBA chapter is up for pretty much anything as long as some people are willing to take the lead on it, they'll support you. dirtjumps that have been maintained and seasoned for several years are a thing of beauty.

put carpets on the jumps when they arn't being ridden. this is a godsend! they'll prevent erosion, keep the dirt nice and moist and tacky and help prevent cracking.

if you can, try to build with good dirt all the way through, facing dank clay over top of ashy crap is REALLY hard and time consuming. i have some good techniques down but its labor intensive, messy and can have mixed results requiring multiple applications.


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## rmb_mike (Jun 12, 2007)

euroford said:


> as another guy from the garden let me add in another couple of tidbits.
> 
> DON'T stack the jumps full of junk to save dirt. in years past we've done that, and its always come back to haunt us. slowly but surly its all getting pulled out and new stuff is being built pure dirt. your going to change/modify almost everything, and if you need to push a lip back your unholy screwed when you start hitting those cinder blocks. if you stack it full of wood, after several years its going to degrade. especially don't do it with berms.


I gotta partially disagree with you here.
While you make some darn good points, particularly with the cinder blocks, consider this:
If you think, even for a second, that you may have to move a jump back, build a wooden ramp, not a dirt ramp. Then you build a dirt lander. The lander can remain stationary while you can move the wooden one if need be. I started a DJ vs. wood jumps thread a year or so ago and got (unjustifiably) accused of being a troll by some of the eliteist dirt jumper douche bags on here. 
Secondly, you are right, wood will degrade a bit after several years...SEVERAL years. That's more than enough time to ride those DJs. Besides, if you use a rot resistant wood like cedar, you don't have to worry about it. And if you use regular wood, just 'stain' the ends of the logs with used engine oil. Most moisture rot that wood encounters actually startrs from the ends...where the ends of the grains are exposed, not lengthwise.
Also, if you don't put a lot of wood 'filler' in the ramps (i.e. you should at least have 1.5' layer of dirt over any solid filler you put under there. That gives you enough leeway to make adjustments.



> keep drainage in mind from the getgo to avoid trouble spots and be aware of what techniques you can employ to address your trouble spots, such as french drains.


Agree 100% here. Plus, you can use the dirt you get from the drainage ditches you dig up.



> plan as well as you can, but understand that all plans will require some revision.
> 
> build a variety of lines that can appeal to a variety of talent levels. incorporate some nice tables into your pumptrack, build some bigger tables near your main line of doubles. this will encourage progression and it will encourage even the dudes that aren't hitting the big stuff to put in shovel time on the big stuff, they'll consider it an investment in their future.


Well said. I'd also like to add that someone on here in a related thread made the suggestion that you build your stunts just above your skill level...that motivates you to practice harder and get better quicker, to where you won't get bored with them as quick.



> don't screwup the trees. don't cut down healthy trees. they add character and are a life long asset, work the jumps around and through the trees, rhythm jumps don't need to be straight. learn some basic arborist techniques and prune the trees as necessary, don't just hack them up or break them off, get a saw and use it appropriately.


Once again, I can't agree with you 100%. Yes, while you should refrain from cutting down healthy trees, if you are building wood stunts as well as dirt jumps, like I am, big enough trees can become useful upright post supports. Also, if you have a thick thicket of trees you want a line to go through, thinning out the area a little bit can be beneficial. It allows the breeze to flow through there easier, it also allows a bit more sunlight in for the remaining trees. This is one area where I say 'use your best judgment'.



> make sure your crew is willing to spend time ridding and digging, but also doing all the rest of the important stuff like patching, tree trimming, watering, sweeping and cleaning up the garbage.


Most definitely



> build your jumps in a sustainable location, not some obviously outlaw spot that is going to get torn down next spring. go legit if possible and involve the community and your local IMBA chapter. chances are, your local IMBA chapter is up for pretty much anything as long as some people are willing to take the lead on it, they'll support you. dirtjumps that have been maintained and seasoned for several years are a thing of beauty.


Couldn't agree more. That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?



> put carpets on the jumps when they arn't being ridden. this is a godsend! they'll prevent erosion, keep the dirt nice and moist and tacky and help prevent cracking.


I've seen that before but it really didn't register until you mentioned it. I'm definitely going to try that with my DJs! Should we put carpet on the landers too?



> if you can, try to build with good dirt all the way through, facing dank clay over top of ashy crap is REALLY hard and time consuming. i have some good techniques down but its labor intensive, messy and can have mixed results requiring multiple applications.


You also have to consider where you live. Here in TN we have predominately clay soil. To add insult to injury, we have anywhere from 6" to 1/5' of top'clay', then solid limestone. We don't have an 80' layer of topsoil like Iowa/Nebraska, etc.
So unless you have the $$ to have expensive topsoil delivered to your house, you have to make do with what you got.

Great write-up regardless dude.


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

i'm just sayin, but over the years we've almost 100% regretted burying crap in the jumps.

but... we have a pretty much unlimited dirt supply, we get the stuff trucked in and have no shortage of sources. around here, companies have to pay to dump fill someplace, they are stoked when we offer to take some off their hands. your millage may vary obviously.

yeah, definitely put carpets on the landers, hell put em on everything if you can!

and yes, a thinning can be very good for a patch of woods, with some luck every wooded DJ spot should have their own arborist geek / chainsaw junky to take care of that stuff.

another thing to consider: tabletop jumps, with flat tops tend to erode sideways pretty fast making a maintenance nightmare, the jumps get incrementally thinner and in some cases had to be rebuilt 1-2 times a year.

having gotten tired of that, we built some wooden retaining walls and this has worked WONDERS. a couple of 4x4 posts, some 2x10's, a couple of bags of quickrete for the posts and an afternoon of work. that $60 has saved us countless unnecessary rebuilds.

like so:


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## jas05 (Feb 18, 2007)

heres my back yard mini. Now being a new Dad and not a lot of extra time the past year or so, I decided to put something in the back yard for convenience and also ride consistency.I also love to rip and help build at some local trail spots when time permits but I felt it was time to tear up the back yard so here it is. This video is when the track was only about 2 months old. It looks different now and will get even bigger and smother this coming season but this is a vid a buddy of mine took when he came by. Click on the link and scroll down to the August 5th date where is says "*Thanks for the call*" . I think I've decided that from now on, no matter how big or small our yard is, there will be dirt. Also, I like keeping at like a grassroots level, its not the cutest or biggest track but its something that many people can do.

http://raisindetra.blogspot.com/search?updated-max=2009-08-30T10:13:00-04:00


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

Here is an idea I have for a layout. The area I want to build the pump/jump track is about 54' x 122' this leaves me with an area to build a roll-in at the end without all the transfers. What do you think of the layout? Any suggestions or ideas for improvement?


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

rmb_mike said:


> Couldn't agree more. That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?


I don't mind sharing my 1,000's of hours of work with whoever wants to ride as long as you respect the trails and help out. When you show up time and time and time again, case the lips and landings, set fires, leave your trash behind, and do absolutely ZERO work then you are not part of the "community"--you are a f'king poacher. I'm quite content with my "elitest" attitude in those cases.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

rmb_mike said:


> . . . That's why I shake my head whenever someone posts pictures of a secret trail and other riders get all huffy and puffy about it. That situation just screams, 'hey I've built some dirt jumps on land that I wasn't supposed to'. I can certainly do w/o that eliteist attitude. So much for mtn bikers being a single community huh?
> . . . .


The rest of your post is pretty good, but I don't see your point about pictures...

*Do not post pictures of secret trails.* is number 11 on "The Digging Rules." Best way to be in the "community" is to respect the rules and respect the people that built what you are riding.

If you are so against unauthorized trails, THEN DON'T RIDE THEM.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> Here is an idea I have for a layout. The area I want to build the pump/jump track is about 54' x 122' this leaves me with an area to build a roll-in at the end without all the transfers. What do you think of the layout? Any suggestions or ideas for improvement?


Nice drawing and good ideas. Pump tracks are all about complete freedom . . . but there is a math aspect to it as well, as far as what works and how it works....

Having 4 corners of a rectangle is good. WAAAY better than having a huge oval end or 180 turn on one entire end.

Shorter radius (tighter) turns are better for pumping or whipping out of if you are at a slower speed. Larger radius turns soak up speed, and are only "whippable" if you are already going reasonably fast.

Therefore if you match up the 4 corners with the same radius berms, your pump track will have a consistent speed. If they are different radii, it means the pump track will have fast spots and slow spots, which is fine if you want to have to accelerate/decelerate. Just note that this will happen.


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

Finally came up with a design for the track that I think will give alot of options for different lines. I cleared the lot and got rid of all the weeds. I watered it really good and got it compacted (used my Truck F250). The soil is sandy but it compacted really well. I have a nice base to work with now. I am having 100 yds of clay soil brought in today. I will post up pics as I build. The radius for the berms are now the same. I am going to build a ramp for a roll-in and one end of the track since the lot is level.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> Finally came up with a design for the track that I think will give alot of options for different lines. I cleared the lot and got rid of all the weeds. I watered it really good and got it compacted (used my Truck F250). The soil is sandy but it compacted really well. I have a nice base to work with now. I am having 100 yds of clay soil brought in today. I will post up pics as I build. The radius for the berms are now the same. I am going to build a ramp for a roll-in and one end of the track since the lot is level.


that looks good. if you're gonna plan it out that much you'll want to figure out where the rollers are going to be as well.... i think 11 or 12 foot spacing (peak to peak) is good for smaller rollers and 13-14 ft. is good for larger ones... bmx tracks typically have 14 foot spacing on rollers--but they are designed for very high speed...

are you going to have tabletop jumps or rollable doubles ("camel back" style) in the pump track, or is just going to be rollers ?

here's a line of small tables in Stowe VT:


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

CMC,good call on the inside 180 berm being too close to the outside 90. I was just thinking about that today when they were delivering the dirt. I had planned on building the outside 90's first and then the inside berms, since I have the room I think I will move the 180's more towards the inside of the track. I will be building rollable doubles and table tops for sure. I want my kids to be able to use the track as well but I don't want just a bunch of small little rollers. I like your idea about planning out the roller spacing as well. What size would you consider a small and a large roller? I really liked your idea about the doubles leading into the pit with the step-up after the pit. I definitely want to incorporate something like that into one of the lines. How would you layout some of the rollers/doubles and tables to make it flow. The distance on the outside lines from the end of one berm to the start of the next is about 95'.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> CMC,good call on the inside 180 berm being too close to the outside 90. I was just thinking about that today when they were delivering the dirt. I had planned on building the outside 90's first and then the inside berms, since I have the room I think I will move the 180's more towards the inside of the track. I will be building rollable doubles and table tops for sure. I want my kids to be able to use the track as well but I don't want just a bunch of small little rollers. I like your idea about planning out the roller spacing as well. What size would you consider a small and a large roller? I really liked your idea about the doubles leading into the pit with the step-up after the pit. I definitely want to incorporate something like that into one of the lines. How would you layout some of the rollers/doubles and tables to make it flow. The distance on the outside lines from the end of one berm to the start of the next is about 95'.


well, i can tell you some things we have done. there is definitely no single way to do it.

these rollers at Hammerhead bike shop if I remember right I spaced them about 12 or 13 feet apart. they are about 14" to 18" high. 









in this pic are what i call the accelerating rollers, like the drawing above in the thread. this line is upgradient. each roller is bigger (both length and height) from the one before it and the space to the next one gets bigger. it was not easy to get right. i think we tore it down and rebuilt at least 3 times.... the last one is (first in the pic) is about 7 or 8 peak to peak, maybe 2'6" high










this is a view of the other drawing, with the step down to step up. 









these type of bowls may be pretty tough to re-create on flat ground if you're not digging below gradient but building everything up instead. our big pits are 3-4 feet deep, meaning with a 1 foot roller they are almost like having 4 or 5 foot tall jumps....

this is an idea i had..... i have not actually built it exactly like this, but pretty similar...having 11 foot bowls/pits peak to peak but then instead of a normal roller have a monster roller that is exactly half... i think it would create a feeling of floating over each roller--sort of jumping them with tires a couple inches off the surface. but 11 feet is pretty close together for peaks, so this would have a slow speed quick pump feel.... the 11 foot long pit also happens to coincide with the surface distance of an 8 foot radius 90 degree turn !!


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

Those ideas sound good. I brought in dirt but I still would like to dig down for some pits. I would have brought in less dirt but I have alot of sand and I want the track to last. 14" to 18" roller seem short to me but this is the first track I have ever built. How would a pit like the one in the picture be to roll thru and not jump? My boys are only 6 and 4 and aren't jumping yet. Is the spacing on the pit with the step-up similar to the drawing earlier in this thread? I know I will probably build some of these lines more than once to find out what works but it doesn't hurt to start out with a good plan.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> Those ideas sound good. I brought in dirt but I still would like to dig down for some pits. I would have brought in less dirt but I have alot of sand and I want the track to last. 14" to 18" roller seem short to me but this is the first track I have ever built. How would a pit like the one in the picture be to roll thru and not jump? My boys are only 6 and 4 and aren't jumping yet. Is the spacing on the pit with the step-up similar to the drawing earlier in this thread? I know I will probably build some of these lines more than once to find out what works but it doesn't hurt to start out with a good plan.


the step down/step up pit we built is too big for 4 and 6 yrs old. our pump track is really a blend of traditional pump track with bmx trails/dirt jump dimensions...

if you don't already have the the Leelikesbikes.com "Welcome to Pump Track Nation" e-book, i highly recommend it as a great starting point.
i PM'd you...


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

I have Lee's book on pump tracks, and it has been usefull. I want the track to be a pump track with a bmxtrails/dj influence. The traditional pump track looks like it would be a great workout by itself, but I want more jumps than pumps. I know the pits will be too much for my boys right know so I plan to build some lines with smaller jumpable rollers for them. I want to encourage them as much as I can. I take them to a local abandon bmx track when I can and they love it. I will definitely be able to spend more time at the track if they come with me. PM sent.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> I have Lee's book on pump tracks, and it has been usefull. I want the track to be a pump track with a bmxtrails/dj influence. The traditional pump track looks like it would be a great workout by itself, but I want more jumps than pumps. I know the pits will be too much for my boys right know so I plan to build some lines with smaller jumpable rollers for them. I want to encourage them as much as I can. I take them to a local abandon bmx track when I can and they love it. I will definitely be able to spend more time at the track if they come with me. PM sent.


speaking of abandoned BMX tracks.... 
there is a lot you can learn about how BMX race tracks and how they work design-wise (both good tracks and bad tracks), and how they are different from both pump tracks and BMX "Trails." IMO a "next level" pump track takes influences both from bmx tracks and from trails (and maybe skateparks too). from bmx tracks, you take the mellowness and rollableness--you want to flow over stuff fast and low. peakyness or steep angles will throw off the natural flow... BMX trails is all about spacing--in rhythm sections you dive into one landing into a bowl and boost out the next lip... skatepark bowl corners will show a lot about berms...

first off.... BMX tracks and starting hills.... here's an example of a starting hill that is seriously lacking for the size of the first jump. in BMX trails, riders generally want to drop in and hit something, or maybe take 3 to 5 cranks a couple of rollers and then hit something. this one, you'd have to crank like a maniac to hit the first table.










next... rollers that are too short and peaky. there are two ways to fix this roller--get rid of it, or make it a lot bigger/mellower/longer, more like a wave, not like a speed bump.



















once again, rollers should not be bump--FLAT--bump---FLAT..... they should be waves.... about 7-10 wheelbarrows of dirt on each one of these would fix them....










next... berms with too big off a radius basically aren't working for their intended purpose. note how the tire-packed area is not even on the berm.... the reason BMX track berms are huge is that riders are pedaling full speed. if you just want to cruise/flow through a pump track , you want MUCH smaller radius turns.









this section was actually pretty good. 3 rollable doubles (tables with a little bit of camel-back shape to them) in a row. the problem here is simply speed. you have to come cranking like a crackhead around a mellow radius berm, then you hit these pretty long sets. in pump track or BMX trails terms, sets this size would be good at the bottom of a decline, but on flat ground they should just be shorter. 10-13 feet instead of 16-20.....










pump track design can actually learn a lot from skateparks. (i skated for 10 years, bmx for 25). 
to be super-fluid and effortless, pump track berms IMO should be more like skatepark bowl corners than like traditional bmx track berms . . 









so... this berm at our spot is roughly an 8 foot radius (typical skatepark transition), only maybe 3 feet high at the most... but try to transition the face of the berm up in a skatepark bowl shape and you'll be able to lean a lot harder...... plus it just kinda looks cool..









that's all for now.


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## crazy Jim (Mar 31, 2005)

nice picks of the crappy Allen BMX. They need to turn that thing into a dirt jump park


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

here's a little more motivation..........










https://www.leelikesbikes.com/lyons-bike-park-photos-from-sundays-digride-sesh.html


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

very nice. one of those plate tampers has been on my DO WANT list.


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## crazy Jim (Mar 31, 2005)

euroford said:


> very nice. one of those plate tampers has been on my DO WANT list.


bought one the other day, I use Pam no-stick to keep the dirt from clumping on it


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## euroford (Sep 10, 2006)

crazy Jim said:


> bought one the other day, I use Pam no-stick to keep the dirt from clumping on it


BRILLIANT! :thumbsup:

our dirt has CRAZY high clay content, which makes for some bomber jumps, but it can be very hard to work with. any idea on how the tamp might work for breaking up clumps of dry stuff or packing down the wet crazy sticky stuff??


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

Finally got some time to work on the pump track plans again. I have an area cleared for the track with 100yds of clay waiting for me to get started.
Here is the proposed plan. I think I have the outside lines figured out, the rollers will be about 10' peak to peak with 2 pits on the long sides that are 20' lip to landing. I still don't know what I want to do with the inside lines. I have indicated on the plan where there will be transfers from the outside to inside lines. I know some of this will change once we start moving dirt and riding it. I would appreciate any suggestions or ideas for some fun lines.I like CMC's ideas about monster rollers and pits and would like to incorporate the step-down to pit to step-up form earlier in this thread. The track is going to be more of a jump/pump track then a pure pump track. I will also be building a roll-in ramp where its noted on the plan, probably about 8' to 10' high. Track dimensions are 51'-8 x 117'-6".


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> Finally got some time to work on the pump track plans again. I have an area cleared for the track with 100yds of clay waiting for me to get started.
> Here is the proposed plan. I think I have the outside lines figured out, the rollers will be about 10' peak to peak with 2 pits on the long sides that are 20' lip to landing. I still don't know what I want to do with the inside lines. I have indicated on the plan where there will be transfers from the outside to inside lines. I know some of this will change once we start moving dirt and riding it. I would appreciate any suggestions or ideas for some fun lines.I like CMC's ideas about monster rollers and pits and would like to incorporate the step-down to pit to step-up form earlier in this thread. The track is going to be more of a jump/pump track then a pure pump track. I will also be building a roll-in ramp where its noted on the plan, probably about 8' to 10' high. Track dimensions are 51'-8 x 117'-6".


Looks good, but at this point I think you just need to get started. Build the outside loop and ride it for a while THEN decide how you want the inside stuff. Leave the super technical stuff like 360 berms till later. I suggest just building the 4 corner berms first, with nothing in between, then ride it to get a feeling of how fast you'll want to be going. Spacing of rollers and jumps has everything to do with speed. Once you dig a pit it is SERIOUS pain to move it. Learned that the hard way.

Here's another step down to step up we built (or at least started) last Saturday:




 Natural ravines/washouts/whatver you call 'em are great. you build a kicker or flat wedge drop 10-15 ft back from the decline. it purely depends on how much speed you want to crank into it with. we're still working on the landing.


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

I agree that I need to just get started. The only reason for all the planning right now is that I don't have a lot of help and I have 100 yds of dirt to move and that doesnt include digging the pits.. I am planning to bring in a bobcat to move the majority of the dirt and want to get as much done as possible with the machinery. Once thats done I know it will start taking shape. I know the only way to get it right is to ride it and find out what works and what doesn't.


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

FInally got a chance to move some dirt. I had about 100 yds of clay to move to get the track started. I brought in a bobcat for a few hours and got a lot accomplished. The outside berms and lines are in place as well as the dirt for the 360 berms, Now I just need to get a chance to get out there and start shaping and compacting the dirt. I will be bringing in more dirt for the exisiting rollers and the rest of the inside lines.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Dr boo boo said:


> FInally got a chance to move some dirt. I had about 100 yds of clay to move to get the track started. I brought in a bobcat for a few hours and got a lot accomplished. The outside berms and lines are in place as well as the dirt for the 360 berms, Now I just need to get a chance to get out there and start shaping and compacting the dirt. I will be bringing in more dirt for the exisiting rollers and the rest of the inside lines.


good goin !


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

this spot looks well-built, smooth, with creative lines.

*Johnson Pumptrack and Dirt Jumps*


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

https://www.morcmtb.org/forums/showthread.php?t=33536


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

did another write-up in this thread:

*"dirt jump specs?"*
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=599573


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## joshben (Dec 23, 2006)

Hi, and sorry to bump an old thread. i'm not a DJ'er by any means, but i'm building a pump track in a ~60'x30' space, and i was thinking of incorporating some of the ideas in this thread (along with Lee McCormack's).



cmc4130 said:


> you should definitely use natural terrain ups and downs. it's more challenging, but in the end it is way more fun.
> 
> for going up a slight incline or gaining speed from a slow speed consider an accelerating rollers design:


This "accelerating rollers" idea is one that i like. Does anyone here have any opinions on how well they would work if the track is bidirectional? that is, if a rider were coming down a slight slope, and encountered smaller, more frequent rollers as he descended, would it throw off the flow?

i'll have some other questions later, but for now, thanks in advance for lending whatever knowledge you guys have.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

joshben said:


> Hi, and sorry to bump an old thread. i'm not a DJ'er by any means, but i'm building a pump track in a ~60'x30' space, and i was thinking of incorporating some of the ideas in this thread (along with Lee McCormack's).
> 
> This "accelerating rollers" idea is one that i like. Does anyone here have any opinions on how well they would work if the track is bidirectional? that is, if a rider were coming down a slight slope, and encountered smaller, more frequent rollers as he descended, would it throw off the flow?
> 
> i'll have some other questions later, but for now, thanks in advance for lending whatever knowledge you guys have.


it definitely feels different going the other direction, but it works. i usually roll the big one then double-manual the last two. maybe i'll get a vid of it.


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## joshben (Dec 23, 2006)

wow, thanks for the quick response! you truly are an invaluable resource to this community.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

hey Dr. B B, any riding pics or vids yet?


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## Dr boo boo (May 28, 2007)

No riding pics yet. When I started the track work was really slow and then I got busy, which is a good thing. I have only had time for one ride a week and no time to build. Good news though, went out to the track on Wednesday with a buddy and started work again. We didn't have a lot of time but we we're able to rake out all the rollers and berms and start watering the dirt. I'm going to either rent or borrow a compactor to speed up the process. I can't wait to start riding the track. Now that I have some help I think building will start moving right along.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

this roller in the street course at the new Cedar Park, Texas, skatepark is a good example of a bubbled over (or VW'd) roller shape that is not peaky.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

now this is a serious Monster Roller.

forget what you've learned about pump tracks having to have rollers that are no more than 18" tall.

this will add some serious fun to a pump track.









from
https://leastmost.com/news/the-lord/

by rounding off what would otherwise be a table, you make it perfect for scrubs....


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

in this drawing (which is to scale), 15" height from bottom of pit to peak of roller corresponds with roughly 12' (actually 11.875') spacing, if you're doing a 1:9.5 ratio.

also note how the shape of the roller does not come up to a peak. it is just the inverse of a bowl, the top of a dome, VW beetle roof, however you want to think of it.

also note that the radius i used to draw the rollers and pits would be roughly 7'6". SO.... if these rollers are heading into a berm, you could use a 7.5' radius for the berm, and the "wave" effect will feel consistent. the berm is really a sideways pit/trough/bowl.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

quick edit from one afternoon (Kristen's 'K-dog'' birthday jam) 





as you may be able to tell, my philosophy of pump tracks (and the austin/bmx style of pump track) is a pump track with full sized tables and rollable doubles mixed in. it's a blend of bmx trails and "pump track").


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## irocss85 (Aug 10, 2009)

cmc4130 said:


> quick edit from one afternoon (Kristen's 'K-dog'' birthday jam)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


that looks like one of the best spots Ive seen so far. due to everything looks rollable, yet, there are still some huge jumps in there to for people who can go big. :thumbsup:


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## Ayenn (Jul 25, 2010)

irocss85 said:


> that looks like one of the best spots Ive seen so far. due to everything looks rollable, yet, there are still some huge jumps in there to for people who can go big. :thumbsup:


:thumbsup: Yeah, I saw footage of that a few months ago and fell in love! That is still the best layout I have seen for a hybrid pump track and the prototype ideal for anything I may ever try to build.

The blend of structures is just too fun! it is the most versatile track I know of. Any rider of any skill type and level can ride that thing and have a blast and feel like they are improving.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

hey thanks ayenn and irocs . . . !

here is a drawing of a beginner line of tables, followed by beginner/intermediate, followed by a sample of a more advanced line.

the main thing for beginners is that a short gap does not necessarily make a jump easy. it's the steepness or mellowness that makes it easy. a beginner can clear 10 feet with the appropriate speed if a jump is mellow.

as for the spacing, note that if you go by the guideline that your bowl should be roughly twice (but up to 3 times) the length of the gap you just cleared then you get a nice rhythm section with constant transition instead of having lots of flat space in between jumps.


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## CrankyMonkey (May 11, 2006)

This thread rocks! Just looking at those plans and photos gets my blood pumping. I've been contemplating buying some land and building my own private bike park to ride on. Especially since land is so freaking cheap right now in Arizona.


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

cmc4130 said:


> quick edit from one afternoon (Kristen's 'K-dog'' birthday jam)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


MAN! that place has fun written all over it! SOOOO jealous! Is it city approved?!

Austin eh? hrm... I need to start thinking of an excuse to go to Austin, hehe (for the GF, that spot is all the excuse I need)


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

i'm posting this just to show what a difference some added height and steepness on a berm can make. this is the same berm going from relatively boring to gnarly corner-pocket-launcher.


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## TCR1 (Mar 25, 2004)

Dr boo boo said:


> FInally got a chance to move some dirt. I had about 100 yds of clay to move to get the track started. I brought in a bobcat for a few hours and got a lot accomplished. The outside berms and lines are in place as well as the dirt for the 360 berms, Now I just need to get a chance to get out there and start shaping and compacting the dirt. I will be bringing in more dirt for the exisiting rollers and the rest of the inside lines.


Nice work! I gota ask thoughif the chainlink is temporary or permanent. I know it would bother me to be jumping adjacent to a fence like that...just one more thing that could go wrong if you bobble slightly (hook bars). Looks really cool though.:thumbsup:


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

The lost art of the "Long and Low" or "Fast and Low." This is based around a 30 degree arc radius. The goal is not to go high, it's to go fast and stay low. This type of setup can be a great addition to your trails especially if you put steeper sets later on down the line. Because I drew the landing as a bowl with no flat space (and the bowl length is 1.5 times, rather than twice the length of the gap), the next lip will come at you pretty quick. However, that's pretty typical in on bmx race track rhythm sections so it's good to get used to.

Remember with 2 or 3 foot tall jumps, you have to make the transition mellower than a taller jump, or else there is not enough wheelbase on the surface of the jump for your bike to transition from flat ground without it feeling abrupt. You can't put 70 degrees of arc on a lip 3 feet tall--it will be virtually unrideable. On the other hand, a 6 foot tall lip with 70 degrees of arc is a gnarly booster.



















As for 'degrees of arc' and trajectory. . . . keep in mind that riders can boost off a flatter jump and go into a higher trajectory path, or they can 'suck up the lip' (aka 'racering' a lip) to prevent the jump from sending them too high, so they can stay lower and faster. The jump does some of the work, but you and your bike do the rest.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

*video from Cedar Park / Austin - Public Dirt Jump/Pump Track build day*

i did already post this in the trail building forum, but it would go well in this thread too. my crew will be out there again this weekend getting stuff dialed--it's not my local spot (it's about 25 miles away) but i some of my crew lives out there. so, the more spots to ride the better.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






_Saturday and Sunday. 16 hours labor. 10.5 hours Bobcat run time. $40 in diesel. Shown in video: Line of roller and 4 big tabletops completed. 
Not shown in video: Another line of 2 berms, table and roller, dirt moved into place but not shaped and packed. A third line of 1 table, 135 degree berm and 4 rollers moved into place and only partly shaped/packed. (Not shown in video).

From experience, my advice is even with a Bobcat, do not underestimate the amount of time and skilled labor required for shaping and packing !!

Thanks to Austin Ridgeriders Mountain Bike Club/ for contributing the cost of the Bobcat rental._


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

https://www.crank.co.za/the-anatomy-of-dirt-jumps/343


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Very cool time-lapse of pump track being hand-dug. Note that they are digging from the riding line, not next to it, or from some other big hole. This is a good method, although it will create pits that hold water. There are ways to address that though, like having a slot drain next to the roller line.

http://www.vitalmtb.com/videos/member/How-to-build-a-pump-track-in-two-minutes,5678/drkost,1816

_*"Here is a start-to-finish time lapse of the 604 pump track construction. We built the track in seven days over a period of two months. Thanks to everyone who volunteered their time and effort. Special thanks to Matt at North Shore Bike Shop. For more info check out http://dirtwest.blogspot.com Credit: dirtwest "*_


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

this spot, which my friends built in the course of about 3 months, is a good demonstration of how, when you have flat ground, you may want to build a long crank-in run-up or, alternatively, a wood drop in. note that an 8 foot tall drop in was not quite tall enough to immediately be able to hit a double, without having a roller before it. spacing of the gaps and pits (lip to landing distance versus distance across the bowl to the next pit) roughly follows the rule that if your jump is 10 foot, lip to landing, you want at least double ( 20 feet) from the top of the landing to the lip of the next jump. you can go up to 23 or 25 . . .but if you go longer, then you will have serious slowness problem. the more you bowl down, the tighter you can put them. if you have actual flat space in between, it doesn't matter as much--but who really wants to have to put in a crank between sets??


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Even though it's true you have to deal with water issues, digging from the riding line by using the pit/bowl method of construction speeds things up, for the reason that every shovel you dig down, you are effectively also building the line up. It's like double digging. The end result is a very clean looking line of dirt jumps because you are not digging random holes off to the side.










[ _EDIT (3/9/11): The jumps, which my friends built, in this video are designed and spaced pretty close to the above drawing (except maybe with 28' or so between top of landing to next lip): www.vimeo.com/20788809 _ ]

This cover of the DIG MAGAZINE Trails issue is a very good visual of the end result. Note how the builders did not dig out the gap between the launch and landing (lame!!).

To deal with water filling up pits, there are several methods--the best of which is digging an even deeper slot or deep/skinny dugout hole which you can then cover over with plywood or with stratgically placed flat rock. The water will drop down and soak downwards, allowing the riding line of the pit to not hold water.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

great example of a mellow lip for the first set and steeper stuff after that:









from:
https://www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=31056&pagenum=789


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

This is a very well-done design for a public park: 
Superior Bike Park in Superior, CO

https://www.leelikesbikes.com/photos-and-video-from-superior-bike-park.html


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

This was an awesome spot that just got dozed. (The perspective and camera lens makes the jumps look shorter than they actually were though).

It's also a good illustration of the pit/bowl method of building, where you dig from the riding line to make the jumps. You might think of it as more like consecutive half-pipes dug into the ground.

For a cleaner look, try to avoid digging next to the line to build the jumps . . . Dig only from the riding line. If you end up needing more dirt later and don't want to dig the bowl down more, then wheelbarrow it over from a future bowl. ... It requires a little more planning because as you build your landing you're also using some of the dirt from the pit/bowl to build the next launch. In the end, though, it's worth it, because your trails won't have moon craters.

You can dig french drain style slots/holes to let the water drop down (all you need is for there to be a part of the pit that is deeper than the riding line of the pit... although if you're in a super rainy area, this may or may not work.









_photo by T.S. _


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

cmc4130 said:


>


cmc, you have the horizontal distances documented here real nicely, can you throw some vertical guidelines in. I'm going to shoot for something like this on the pump line line I have going. I want it to be more pump/jump like your drawing here.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

One thing I haven't talked about yet on here are "*Roller-Tables*." They are an essential part of a rad pump track (or even bmx/mtbmx 'trails') in my opinion. For lack of a better word, they are blend of both a roller and a tabletop. They are not table-top jumps because the goal is to not really to jump but rather to stay super close and skim the top, and they are not rollers because they do not bubble up or have a bowl top lid--they flatten out. You're basically building a low-to-the-ground table top (anywhere from 1' to 3' tall, of varying lengths depending on your speed), then instead of having typical "lips" or corners at the lip and landing, you curve/fade the corner off, so that the lip/landing edges are rounded over. This allows the rider to stay low on the table for "un-air." Common in bmx racing. Staying low means going faster.










One of the cool things about roller tables is that because you can skim over them, a lot of times you can do cool nose manuals across them and then pump the backside really hard.

D.L. at WCPT








O.M.P. at WCPT (photo by 9thstreetbmx)









sometimes you will see roller-table style designs in cement skateparks. i couldn't find a better picture than this . . . but imagine if you were hitting the roller-table style pyramid in the middle of this park and just trying to stay low and pumping for speed (and the two grindboxes weren't there):


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

check this backyard build.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=698350


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

*The Physics of Trails Flow . . . . *

While I definitely don't think trails should be too mathematical / predictible / cookie-cutter, there is something weirdly addicting about a line that has an effortless, almost rhythmic flow. Every jump puts you right where you need to be for the speed that you have (without any special body english), and the next lip doesn't come at you too fast or too slow.

It took me a while to figure out the connection with waves; when I first started digging, I learned some rules of thumb from older riders (e.g. the distance from top of landing to top of next lip should be roughly double the gap you just cleared) . . . but I never quite put my finger on why that was.

It's not that jumps look like waves or even that they are spaced the same way that waves in the ocean would be . . . It's the rider's position over points in time has a consistency that is wave-like. Wave motion itself ( UP - DOWN - UP - DOWN .....) has a certain feeling to it that people intuitively recognize. Like if you're sitting on a boat and feeling the waves, or if you're listening to music with a good rhythm (most songs don't randomly speed up and slow down). It's a position or feeling over different points in time. If you space dirt jump sets erratically, you won't "feel" like you're riding across the terrain in a wave-motion.

Not every line has to be this way. Variety is good. Sometimes 'tech' sets should throw you off a little and make you work for it (e.g. "racer" one set, boost another) and sometimes it's good to add weird elements like a waterfall, or rollers that you have to manual over to make it work..... But, as a starting point at least . . . consider 'wave' spacing......

Hopefully this is helpful! :










So remember, it's not that you make the jumps look like these waves. It's that the rider's highest point in the air, from one point to the next, is the "peak" . . . and the "peaks" are evenly spaced (over time) the same way the peaks of water waves are evenly spaced..... I say evenly spaced over time because if your jump line is on a decline and you are gaining speed, every set could actually get both longer-gap and longer distance to the next jump, but the rider is still going to hit each peak in the air every x number of seconds.


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## tootall (May 23, 2005)

Last night I figured what the heck and started digging in the empty lot behind the house. Terrible location: pancake flat, bakes in the sun most of the day with zero shade, will have a house built on it sooner or later; but I figured if I can get a small track rolling for a while I can learn some things.


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## dl1030 (Sep 3, 2009)

Not near as dialed as some of the others (or all of them) but here is my solo build


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## While At Rome (Apr 25, 2011)

Best place ive ever ridden is the I street jumps in salt lake city. Here is a good video from helmet cam of what looks like last years set up, good amount of building since then. You get to see some of the berms and mini pump track (i guess u can call it that) at the end after the ladder jumps. Either way there are a bunch of cool ideas and things in this park. Most of the stuff is relatively big and not for beginners, if this is the guy's cam i think it is, he is about 6'4.


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## tlcrouch355 (Aug 2, 2008)

Cool video.


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## NastyNick (Apr 1, 2008)

Not sure if it has allready been mentioned; but when building a pumptrack, there should never be any flat surfaces on the track. It should either be going up, down, or turning.


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## NastyNick (Apr 1, 2008)

Here are some pics of a jump park called The Lair in Bend, Oregon. We just finished our spring build sessions. We had 39 people show up to a weekend build day!!!

Lower section of jump lines.


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## Jason B (Aug 15, 2008)

Nice!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

NastyNick said:


> Here are some pics of a jump park called The Lair in Bend, Oregon. We just finished our spring build sessions. We had 39 people show up to a weekend build day!!!


A lot of great-looking stuff there!! Maybe you could elaborate a little (as far as this being the DJ, Pump Track "plans") thread . . . with some of the measurements, spacing, techniques etc. used ?

Do yall have a water source to water the jumps? Is that all native soil (if so, it looks surprisingly good)....

I like how yall made landings a little stepped-up and big and wide--that will definitely help the durability.


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## Grizzy (Sep 12, 2009)

Flboy said:


> My freinds and I are going to build a DJ park and a Pump track. I have been doing a lot of research trying to find the best set I can find. So does anyone have and good suggestions of webpages or any links that could help me out. I did get the e-book from leelikesbikes.com.
> 
> Thanks


This ist the gayest thing Ive ever read. You need an instruction manual to dig and pack dirt. 
:madman:

If it (roller, berm, whatever) sucks dig it up and move it.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Grizzy said:


> This ist the gayest thing Ive ever read. You need an instruction manual to dig and pack dirt.
> :madman:
> 
> If it (roller, berm, whatever) sucks dig it up and move it.




Sure, for someone who has already ridden different spots and knows the basic designs already, then a little trial and error is fine (and usually necessary). But, this whole thread is designed to assist beginners and people who want to try to get it better the first time.

There have been so many times I have seen things built not right, get torn down and re-built not quite right again, then get abandoned. And I also have met quite a few experienced, rad riders, who can't design and build trails for sht. And I also know guys who are not great riders, but who are great designers/builders. Most people don't see what goes in to good design. Bystanders just see piles of dirt, while many riders don't think, just ride. A lot of times, a setup will work okay, but a different design could improve it immensely.

Maybe I pay a lot of attention to measurements etc. because I've built a lot of ramps--from backyard half-pipes to private and public bike/skateparks... There's something to be said with looking at plans and doing stuff right.

Here are some guys designing and building professionally:
_*Inside Earth Ramp Dirt Park Construction*_
https://espn.go.com/action/bmx/blog/_/post/5364197


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

*New city-sponsored jumps* 
Tom Brown Park in Tallahassee, Fl.

https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242376

this is a good example of how to improve a typical tabletop. ---> make it a step up, where the landing is taller than the launch. the reason step ups are so common in dirt jumping is that a bigger landing has more space for the wheelbase of your bike to land.

note especially, the curved over landing-edge. much smoother than a hard-corner landing edge.


















here's are two other examples of the rolled-over or curved landing edge on a step up . .. this time at wood bikeparks:


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

although some builders do build the sides and back of a jump almost vertically (see second pic below), it is more typical (and durable) to have your jumps somewhat Pyramid shaped. and if they're slanted, this means the base of your jump is going to be a lot wider than at the top, or the lip. this means that the base (or "footprint") of the launch is going to be like a big rectangle on the ground. you mark that out to start with and build the entire base and pack it down. then you add the next layer, pack it. then the next layer etc. like Aztecs or Egyptians building pyramids. this also makes for easier packing because it's a lot easier to pack downwards than to pack sideways later (trying to make a jump wider).










Pyramid shaped jumps. very sturdy/durable:








from 
*Oregon Trails*
https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233036

Vertical sides & back. No question it looks rad, but it will be less durable. Especially if you're not using premium clay. Places that have amazing clay like in this picture are better able to stack and pack vertically. 









If you're doing the pit/bowl method of building (where you get the dirt from the riding line) you'll notice that a lot of the "base" of the lip is part of the natural earth already there . . . . this is the most efficient way of building.










You can also find a natural decline and build a landing extension at the top of it, like this:


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

another example of the "pyramid" sides to launches and landings . . . . brought to you by the All-Star digger crew for Odyssey's Texas Toast jam which is happening this weekend in Austin:


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## gratephul (Jun 15, 2008)

Well I've got dirt coming this weekend. I'm getting 6 dump truck loads which is 72 yards and renting a skid steer. I'll take pictures and keep you guys posted.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

I guess this hasn't come up so far . . . . but it's worth mentioning that pump track style features can be made of lumber. Either in the freeride-ish planky style or in the smooth-plywood bmx park style.

Ray's MTB has one of the best known:

















Here's an outdoor one (with the 2X6 planky style). . . at the Burnaby skills park:









Good wood-berm view:









Not real psyched on the particle-board, but has some good shapes:


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## motuman (Jan 23, 2010)

We want to build some dj's up in a forest spot we ride. This would all be done by hand using existing dirt and downed wood. Is there a recommended wood to dirt ratio? Thinking about base and 3/4 of lip/landing wood and the rest dirt?

We could build the line using the pit/bowl method and eliminate most of the wood. But lots of planted trees and roots that make deep digging a real pain. Also, lots of rain during some months, so kinda worried about drainage issues with this method.

Any advice would be awesome!


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

The less wood, the better. When the wood starts to break down/rot, your jumps will suffer.

Also, if your dirt isn't thick enough, when you need to make repairs (and you will) the logs can often reveal themselves right where you don't want them. You can't shape a lip with a log sticking out of it....


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## Rester5350 (Oct 3, 2010)

Lots of good info, thanks


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## alpinestar31 (Jun 23, 2011)

I know a guy who travels all over building pump tracks dj and all kinds of dirt features if any one is intrested. They Just came to tallahassee and did some stuff here.


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## A-NON-A (Sep 21, 2008)

Just got done marking out a pump track in my backyard cant wait to get dirt and get started. Goona feature it on my site.


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## K9Self (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm thinking about building a pump track in my backyard. The area that I'm using is on a slight hill, so I'll have a natural drop in, but my big concern is getting back to the top without having to do a ton of work. Any suggestions as to how to build to get back up a little easier?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

K9Self said:


> I'm thinking about building a pump track in my backyard. The area that I'm using is on a slight hill, so I'll have a natural drop in, but my big concern is getting back to the top without having to do a ton of work. Any suggestions as to how to build to get back up a little easier?


There are several options. Upgradient rollers do work if they are carefully spaced and sized (we have upgradient rollers at my spot); you can also have upgradient jumps, where each set is a step up. The best option in my opinion though is to build a large structure at the low point of the property which artificially creates elevation and therefore generates kinetic energy--it can be a roll-in, a bank, a large quarter pipe, a quarter pipe to wallride, etc. See: Roll-ins - Ridemonkey.com. This is frequently done in skatepark and bikepark street course design.

Although it's at a skatepark--this is a weirdly accurate replica of bmx style step-up rollers, or what could be also called a rollable double. For your upgradient rollers, it will be good to use this type of shape, because in a sense, a step-up is like a ladder that is getting you up the elevation, yet still giving good backside for your wheelbase to compress on to pump you up the gradient.









Check out SPA Skatepark Design&Build; they are an excellent contractor here in Austin. Although most people don't think about it, there's a lot of design principles which apply to both skateparks and pump tracks--in both spots, you are engineering flow, with curves and spaces designed to not require pedaling (or kicking, with a skateboard).

SPA Skateparks: Professional Skatepark Design. Design/Build Skateparks. Skatepark Construction. Skateboard Park Contractor. Skatepark Consultation. Custom Concrete Skateparks. Wooden Skateparks. Backyard Ramps. Skateboard Production Events. Contests.


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## K9Self (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks cmc4130 - I think I'm going to try the rollers and see how that works out.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

K9Self said:


> Thanks cmc4130 - I think I'm going to try the rollers and see how that works out.


cool, but i really think it's worth considering a wood build up at the low end of the property if you can. as i said there are a lot of varieties. look at it this way---it's actually cool that your area is not flat because you get to have a more unique setup....

*1. Wallride*
Highland MTB Park:









*2. Quarter pipe*









*3. BMX-style Vert Wall (Quarter Blending into Vert Wall). *
This would be overkill for your pump track, but I'm including it just to illustrate the idea. BMX vert walls are one of the best speed-generators ever invented.









*4. Roll-in.*
I took this picture at Whistler Air Dome.









*5. Curved Slant Wall aka wood berm* Technically a slant wall or "bank" is not a wall-ride; only vert walls are really walls. If you have a 180 berm on your pump track and it's at the lowest elevation of the your slanted yard, you may consider a curved slant wall all the way around the berm so that you can carve up it and get some height, generating more speed to go back up the gradient with.

Winter Park:









Diablo:


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## K9Self (Aug 2, 2011)

CMC you've convinced me to go with a wooden berm. So I've been researching/reading up on how to build one. I'm thinking about doing a 7' x 3' high berm. Using 1x6 for the planks. As for the posts I'm going to bury them into the ground and connect them horizontally to complete the frame. Any suggestions or tips on building the frame? I'm a visual person so I started looking thru pics for some ideas on how to build I found this picture. I really like how the berm starts level with the ground. I'm not going to be going that vertical with mine, but I like that idea. Opinions?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

K9Self said:


> CMC you've convinced me to go with a wooden berm. So I've been researching/reading up on how to build one. I'm thinking about doing a 7' x 3' high berm. Using 1x6 for the planks. As for the posts I'm going to bury them into the ground and connect them horizontally to complete the frame. Any suggestions or tips on building the frame? I'm a visual person so I started looking thru pics for some ideas on how to build I found this picture. I really like how the berm starts level with the ground. I'm not going to be going that vertical with mine, but I like that idea. Opinions?


3' is pretty short. if you want a short berm (whether wood or dirt), then it has to be steep-faced to work well.

like this:










the other thing is that a large radius turn soaks up speed while a short radius turn can help you maintain or even generate speed. if you have a 90 degree turn pointed back up gradient, then it's gotta be something you can "whip" out of.

i want to keep this thread as general "plans" though, so if you want to keep discussing your specific layout, _let's make a new thread._ take some pics of your spot. how much gradient is there?

also check out this thread. it had a similar question:
help with jump line into berm - Ridemonkey.com

this is a photo i took of the pump track at Whistler:









note how steep/transitioned the faces of the berms are. this is the best way. they need to look like skateboarding bowl corners. you can't "whip" around a mellow-faced berm. you have to be able to get pinned sideways if you want to go fast.


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## K9Self (Aug 2, 2011)

New thread & pics of my area up - suggestions appreciated.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

here's a drawing i did to illustrate two potential roller designs. clearly, dirt doesn't have to be exact, but i'm working on a project right now where we'll be using lumber, so they've got to be more exact....

note the 2 styles of "dome." on the second set, the domes are mirror images of the bowls. by knowing that you're going to use 30 degrees of arc for each section, you end up with a certain spacing--in this case 2 foot tall works out pretty close to 15 feet peak to peak.

larger rollers like this are good when you want to feel the whole wheelbase of your bike going up and over. a typical wheelbase of a dirt jumper is about 42" (axle to axle) or 68" (5'8") for the bike length with the wheels. so you can imagine there are a little less than 3 bike lengths from low point to high point to low point in this wave pattern. (3 exact bike lengths would be 17 feet.)










i paced these rollers at Whistler at 20'-22'-ish feet apart. so definitely keep in mind that when you're going fast (like on these Flow-DH trails), rollers can be well-spaced.


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## superspec (Sep 15, 2007)

great read here. this has helped a lot with my ideas for our local trail. while not a pump track i did pick up some ideas on designs for rollers and berms for our single track.

thanks for this link cmc!


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## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

cmc4130 said:


> for going up a slight incline or gaining speed from a slow speed consider an accelerating rollers design:


I wish I would have seen this thread earlier, I just spent the whole day building rollers and I feel they are to close to each other. I think I'm going to re-work them and go for some accelerating rollers. Would the rollers you pictured here work with the small rollers going to large and then back to small? I would like to have the accelerating effect from both directions with a small gap jump at the largest roller that can also be jump in both directions. What would you recommend the spacing from peak to peak be for the 1',2',4' and 8' rollers?


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## weaverwins (Dec 28, 2008)

pencil and paper I love, but sometimes you gotta start moving dirt and see how things come along. This "PT" will be very bmx trackish. Less leelikesbikes and more bmx rhythm section dimensions.


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

Grizzy said:


> This ist the gayest thing Ive ever read. You need an instruction manual to dig and pack dirt.
> :madman:
> 
> If it (roller, berm, whatever) sucks dig it up and move it.


I too thought it wouldn't be a big deal to move a roller/ reshape a berm, but it's much more difficult to move that dirt the second time (after it's been packed-watered-packed-watered-packed-watered etc) than to put it in the right place the first time. Good plans are imperative.

We (my 14 year old son and I) built a pump track in our back yard. Had 3 1/2 truckloads of dirt hauled in and dug another 1 1/2 - 2 truckloads within the yard. Sixteen 18 - 24" rollers and six 36" to 48" berms. All by hand. We had to move a couple of the rollers and it was a major pain in the butt.

My advice to anyone building a pump track would be to put the dirt in the right place the first time. The more times you have to move dirt, the less time you have to ride.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

a pic of some rollers my bros Abel and Tony and I built recently (with help from Myles and El Paso friends). i did roughly 14' center-to-center spacing and deliberately made them a little taller and steeper than normal because it's an upgradient line (getting you back up to a starting area). may have to adjust a little after they get fully ridden in.









Allied Compound -- End of the World Jam - January 2012


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

That looks sick!
Should definitely get your heart rate up.

What's it like trying to make that curve at speed with no berming? 
Before we got our track dialed in we had a roller at the exit point of a berm that was tilted out and was literally throwing us off the track at speed because the next roller was set in a little to avoid a light post (yeah, we were being thrown into the light post). We tilted the roller to the inside and extended the berm on the outside of the roller and it made a huge difference. 

I know y'all have already built a bunch of lines, so you probably already know this.

Will this be a part of the fastest lap for the End of the World Jam?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

mtlatham said:


> . . . .
> What's it like trying to make that curve at speed with no berming?
> 
> . . . .
> Will this be a part of the fastest lap for the End of the World Jam?


good question. it works fine. the perspective is hard to get with the photos, but it's a pretty huge radius curve. the other thing is that you can have rollers around a curve without a berm per se because each time you get a little bit weightless over a roller you can adjust your bike position slightly (kinda like having tiny hip jumps). and yes, i definitely also recommend the tilted-roller design in the right circumstances. it's actually a lot more fun to pump things that have slight turns than to just pump a dead-straight line....

and yes, Hippie Josh was talking about the pump track for the 'fastest lap' ! . . . .

here's an old pic (fall '08) of our tilted roller-table going into the big pit at WCPT:


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

This thread should absolutely be a "Sticky"

The sheer amount of dirt and wood sculpture from dedicated people spending hours and hours to accomplish their goals in this thread is nothing short of amazing :thumbsup:

Looking at the pics shows there are "Dirt/Wood Artists" that can shape stuff to work for whatever they have in their heads!

Fantastic info and display...
... everyone take a bow!


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

ditto!


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## Hair Face (Dec 29, 2011)

There are some really badass trails in some of those pics. Makes me wanna build in my backyard!


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

*Backyard Pump Track*

best use of backyard space = pump track

We've lived in our house for almost 19 years. I've spent more time in the backyard in the last 6 months (we started building in June) than the other 18 1/2 years combined.

Plus - cost is minimal if you do it yourself. Less than the price of landscaping one or two small flower beds. We did 16 rollers and 4 berms for less than $600. We're adding 2 berms, a table top, and 6 more rollers for another $200 worth of dirt (20 yards). Highest entertainment value per dollar spent ratio ever (oh, and you get most of it back just by canceling your gym membership...believe me, you won't need it anymore).

Our plans and results:


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

This is a little video I put together showing the progress of the build and my son riding it (skip to 1:43 if you just want to see the riding part):


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

mtlatham said:


> This is a little video I put together showing the progress of the build and my son riding it (skip to 1:43 if you just want to see the riding part):


Looks like it rides very smooth. What's the spacing on the rollers ? (I'm kinda confused by the drawing--the legend shows a distance as 6 feet,....)


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

cmc4130 said:


> Looks like it rides very smooth. What's the spacing on the rollers ? (I'm kinda confused by the drawing--the legend shows a distance as 6 feet,....)


Twelve out of 16 rollers are 10 feet apart and the other four are about 8 feet apart. All rollers are 18 - 24" high. Berm radiuses are 9', 12', 8', and 12'. I used Lee McCormack's _Pump Track Nation_ ebook for the measurements.

It does ride pretty well, but we're still working on the track smoothness. We have at least 4 different kinds of dirt, so getting them all to play well together has been a challenge. We're already battling berm erosion. It doesn't take too many little rivulet channels across the track to greatly impact the ability to maintain speed.


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## JFoster (Apr 6, 2005)

Wow, I want this in my back yard. You think these main rollers are about 4' high and 14' apart?

Pump Track Session with Sik Mik - YouTube


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

JFoster said:


> Wow, I want this in my back yard. You think these main rollers are about 4' high and 14' apart?
> 
> Pump Track Session with Sik Mik - YouTube


No, they're def not 4' high. Pause the video and compare them to his wheel size.

One thing that's worth mentioning, is that rollers can be taller and peakier IF you intend to manual them. Many bmx race tracks have this steep-and-deep style of rollers. However, if you want the kind of pump track that feels more like waves, where you pump both wheels on the roller, then they must be mellower/longer and more spread out. If you try to keep both wheels down on peaky rollers, you have to work to press your front end down. You'll also see bmx racers pick their front wheel up before a roller and set it down on the backside. In effect this type of speed manualing is a work-around for a roller that is actually too peaky to pump both wheels on.... Not saying bad, just pointing out the difference...


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## jfactor1 (Sep 22, 2010)

Great thread!!! I'm seriously considering building a pump track at my house this spring. I've got 2 acres of land and a perfect spot for one.


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## BikeParkNooB (Jan 20, 2012)

Anyone know how much something like this COSTS?
Im talking on a bigger scale though...NOT just a "backyard" park...but a "community, or commercial" park?
Cheers


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## swan3609 (Oct 28, 2006)

mtlatham said:


> This is a little video I put together showing the progress of the build and my son riding it (skip to 1:43 if you just want to see the riding part):


If that was my setup, I would totally have a spot to set on/ step off the deck.. Just saying..:thumbsup:


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

Pardon my ignorance - "set on/step off"?
We jump off the deck and bunny hop back on to it when we're just messing around, but I've been trying to figure out a way to incorporate it more into the flow of the track. I'm certainly open to suggestions.


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## swan3609 (Oct 28, 2006)

mtlatham said:


> Pardon my ignorance - "set on/step off"?
> We jump off the deck and bunny hop back on to it when we're just messing around, but I've been trying to figure out a way to incorporate it more into the flow of the track. I'm certainly open to suggestions.


Exactly. Find a way to jump on and off the deck that would be very flowy.. Watching the video I wanted to hit a small jump up onto the deck and land in a manual across the deck and drop back onto the track.

You sure have a sweet setup.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

Ok here is our plan for a PT complex in Bagneres de Bigorre in France. Its 3 PTs that gradually have bigger jumps. Thanks for all the comments on this forum and especially the input from cmc4130. We will start with the smallest and probably adapt the plans for the bigger ones as we gain more experience. Have only built a couple of tiny PTs so far so will be a lot to learn. Original plan was to separate jumps and PT but seeing the posts and input from cmc4130 we've tried to integrate the jumps into the Pt so that you can ride a loop rather than a single straight of jumps. Will keep you posted as we start to build it.
Pic here
cheers,
pat


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

trying to inline a pic!


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## swan3609 (Oct 28, 2006)

fastfish666 said:


> trying to inline a pic!


looks sweet!! I see so many spots where there could be epic transfers.. looks like a track that wouldnt ever get boring..

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fastfish666 said:


> Ok here is our plan for a PT complex in Bagneres de Bigorre in France. Its 3 PTs that gradually have bigger jumps. Thanks for all the comments on this forum and especially the input from cmc4130. We will start with the smallest and probably adapt the plans for the bigger ones as we gain more experience. Have only built a couple of tiny PTs so far so will be a lot to learn. Original plan was to separate jumps and PT but seeing the posts and input from cmc4130 we've tried to integrate the jumps into the Pt so that you can ride a loop rather than a single straight of jumps. Will keep you posted as we start to build it.
> cheers,
> pat


very nice computer graphics. i need to catch up with that--still doing pencil/paper protractor etc. !!

my number one suggestion for your jump loop is to have some sort of artificial elevation to roll-in from to hit the jumps (and to get back onto when you come back around). you may even consider, two artificial elevations--one on each diagonal corner of the rectangle.

we have a natural hill roll-in at our spot, (see KD's BDJ @ WCPT on Vimeo for example). most people roll in and do one lap, although it's possible to keep going (i've done 26 laps, i might hold the track record, not sure ). but, if you notice, almost all indoor bike parks and skateparks use some version of this concept. riders hate pedaling from a stand-still to hit a jump on flat ground. everyone loves rolling in and naturally having speed to hit jumps. at the same time, on flat ground it's not that fun to try to use small rollers to gain speed to hit a jump. it's doable--especially if each roller gets progressively bigger (see the "Accelerating Rollers" drawing I did earlier in the thread, or roller-tables, monster rollers etc. but still, i feel like most riders will hit 4 jumps a berm another jump another berm a bunch of rollers after that single loop they'll want to chill for a minute and let somebody else go. a platform where everybody hangs out would be ideal. the platform should ideally be more than 8 feet tall. less than 8 is not really gonna do shlt unless you crank up to it or crank down it. 10 or 12 is ideal. it doesn't have to be a scary steep roll-in. [EDIT in 2020... a platform can be lower, like 6 feet, if it's really long, enabling you to get 2 cranks in before dropping in, down the slant]

check out the very first part of this video from Ray's MTB park. (actually if you ever get the chance you MUST visit there). every bike park designer must make the pilgrimage. Ray's MTB bmx helmet cam session - Mar 2011 - YouTube 
Note how these guys roll-in from an elevation. Then they hit some rollers that are pretty spaced out, then appear to drop down in elevation again. A two-tiered platform could be an ideal way to do it. I think I said it before in the thread, but almost all skatepark street courses operate on the "basin" principle. You have high elevation all the way around the park, whether by quarter-pipes, flat banks, wall-rides, whatever. You drop in from any part of the perimeter of the park, then you flow over things in the middle area, whether they are jump boxes, pyramids, grind boxes, whatever... then when you get to the other side you have some elevation to get up on to turn around. The same principle can operate with a dirt park, except rather than turning around 180 degrees like a typical skatepark you turn left or right 90 with something that acts as a berm. It can be a wood berm, or a hip jump. 
Check out this thread where I have a bunch of pictures and discussion of a loop options:
http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f61/help-jump-line-into-berm-241208/

Lastly, consider that the shape of the track doesn't have to be a rectangle with rounded corners where each berm is a 90. If you tilt a rectangle over (a parallelogram) you get 2 mellow turns and two over-90 degree turns. Or, if you make the track triangular, you could have three 120 degree berms (or one 90 and two 140's) or whatever.... Also you can bend the long sides of a rectangle in so it's slightly peanut shaped. This will get a little bit of hip action in, and you won't always be going straight or turning left. 
I think I need to do some more drawings !!!!


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

thanks for the ideas. First up I only did the computer graphics because our local town planners wanted a 3D model so that they could calculate the volume of earth/dirt required to build the jumps, it was actually done in the Ship-Design software that I write for a living! I did all the original drawings with pencil and paper -- its definitely quicker! But I think the 3D models are quite useful when you are trying to present the idea to town planners etc who have no idea what you are on about. Actually -- originally I went one better and built a scale model (also occupied the kids and I on a rainy afternoon)

If there is any interest, I was vaguely thinking about writing a plug-in for Google Sketchup to more quickly add standard rollers etc.

Anyhow back to MUCH more fun discussion -- the track itself. The idea is that there are 3, essentially independent loops and the idea is that they get progressively bigger jumps and features. The loops are generally supposed to be ridden anticlockwise. There is a slight slope in the long direction of the loops -- you drop about 1m over the 55m length of the track.

Its a bit lost in the perspective, but in the medium one the start hill is 1.5m (5ft) high and the main tables are 1m (3ft4in) high. I was planning similar in the big loop but I think I might have got a bit carried away and I think both the jumps and the start hill are a little under 6ft high. I might see about reducing the height of the jumps as the originally intended height was 5ft. Im a bit concerned about making the start too high as we do get quite a bit of rain here (and snow) and I was worried that it might all get washed away! But we are thinking of building the main features with rock/hardcore and just putting the final shape in with soil.

Again I like your thinking of keeping it more "natural" -- the trouble with computer modelling is that its easier to do things in straight lines -- hence why its better to do it with pencil and paper 

I remember the accellerating roller posts -- Have you tried them in a track? When I plotted them out, doubling the size each time seemed quite extreme? I was worried that it would be hard to make it over the last one if you were going up hill -- maybe smaller increments?

thanks for all you help (my background isnt DJ, Ive ridden a bit of BMX race ovr the last couple of years, but Ive been mountain biking since the late 80s so thats more where Im coming from.

cheers,
pat


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

papier maché model of a small pump track -- was useful in explaining to the town planners what we had in mind!


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

slightly modified "Big" loop with smaller tables on main line and also sort of accellerating rollers on the bottom line (but only 20% increase in size for each one).
My plan during construction is to start with the smallest loop first and use any experience gained to improve the design of the other two loops. Whether this will happen in practice is not certain as the town planners want their workmen to do the majority of the construction.
Watch this space!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Good stuff Fastfish! I like how motivated you are.

First off, a 'big picture' comment: The Town wanting to use their own workers to do most of the construction is a red flag. The ideal situation is where experienced rider-designer-builders are simply given a huge pile of dirt and reimbursement for front-end-loader/Bobcat rental. At a minimum, make sure that rider-designer-builders are there to point where the town employee or contractor dumps each scoop of dirt, then you guys shape it. There is no way a non-riderdesigner can appropriately shape jumps and rollers. I have a lot more to say about that, but I'll leave it at that (and we can discuss privately or even talk on the phone).

Next . . . Accelerating Rollers. You're absolutely right that each roller does not necessarily have to be double the size of the previous. They should be specifically tailored to the rider's speed (whether increasing or decreasing), the incline/decline, and to the style of how you want the track to feel. Watch 1:24 - 1:34 in this edit wcpt random edit - spring 2010 on Vimeo from our spot. This is the third side of a roughly rectangular pump track. It is slightly upgradient. It starts with two regular rollers out of the berm, then a bigger roller, then an even larger one ('monster roller'), then a roller table, then a full sized tabletop jump. It took several re-builds to get it right. The goal was to increase speed in order to be able to hit a jump.

I have also used accelerating rollers on a decline. If you look at the left side of this pic, you'll see a small roller, then a larger 'monster' roller , then a "camel-back" table (aka rollable double). Because you're starting with some speed and the entire line is slightly downgradient, I made it so that the "dirt waves" (if you wanna think of them that way) stretch out. I have some video I can upload later.


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

I realise that its not ideal but Ill be on hand as well as a few guys from the local BMX club. A mountain biking friend is also a minio-digger driver and has his own mini-excavator which will probably come in very handy. Im actually located in France, though my French isnt bad, its not perfect ... so more challenges! ANyhow the town came to us to see if we could build them something -- so I was hardly going to say "no" -- Will have to play it by ear and see how things pan out!
Im not that experienced with buiding pump-tracks/DJ tracks so its a big learning curve! My plan is to start with the smaller loop and get that fine tuned and use what we learn there in the bigger loops where its going to be more critical. Apparently one of the town workforce is a mountain biker -- though Ive not met him. Will let you know how we get on ...


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

That thing looks awesome! what software did you use for those graphics?


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

hi -- Im a developer for Formation Design Systems: www.formsys.com Its actually ship-design software!
I wouldnt recommend it really for designing pump-tracks, but I know it well so was able to produce the drawings pretty quickly -- but Id already done some hand sketches with pen and paper -- but I needed some fairly detailed drawings to submit for approval. Ended up doing 2D drawings in autocad.










Im thinking about seeing if I can do a plugin for Google Sketchup, but dont currently know the software well enough. If there are a number of people who would be interested on this forum, I might be able to find some time to look into it a bit more ...


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

Cost is a huge variable. I've build two pump tracks for home owners. We had 3-5 guys on the crew, paid for dirt, rented heavy equipment when needed.

One cost $2800.00 and the other was $5500.00. If you involve the city it could go up dramaticly or be fairly low cost....


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

this pump track is a good example of the rectangle-with-rounded-corners concept. it's much better than thinking of a track and field style oval. if you have a big track, you don't want huge oval-end berms.

it's also a good example of integrating a pump track into the woods.










Adventure Racer: Blessingbourne MTB Trail Centre


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## jfactor1 (Sep 22, 2010)

Here's a shot of my buddy's pump track. It's a blast with some really good transfer options.


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## jfactor1 (Sep 22, 2010)

And some video:
Unccle. Jimmi's pump track 2 - YouTube


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

jfactor1 said:


> And some video:
> Unccle. Jimmi's pump track 2 - YouTube


that video is a great example of how spaced-out larger rollers are much more fast and flowy than some of the tiny speed-bump designs that are out there. great job.

i'm particularly looking at the line from 0:24 to 0:27. that set of 3 looks like they're spaced, i'm guessing at least 15' or 17' peak to peak. they appear to have about 3 bike lengths peak to peak.


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

if anyone is interested I did a quick spreadsheet for plotting out rollers and tables based on some of the data from cmc4130
The rollers are based on arcs of circles, as are the take-off and landing of the table. You edit the yellow cells. The table also shows you a trajectory (ignoring any rider input!) I should make it so that you input the speed, but at the moment ist just a parameter.

cheers,
pat


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## OGJON (Apr 15, 2009)

humble beginnings of the pump track our group have been working on heaps ore work been done since these pix but anyway


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## mxracer299 (Dec 23, 2006)

This is the first time I've checked out this thread and I'm stoked to see of of these pumptracks on here! I've built 5 tracks now, here's the latest one I just finished in my yard. the pictures aren't that good, but I'll take some better ones and post them up. I'll try to get some pics of the other tracks I've done too. Some of the pics were from the construction phase.


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## bikezigo666 (Jul 19, 2012)

*Your comment on my design*

Hey, I am building a bit bigger dirt line, so here is my plan. Any comments and ideas would be appreciated,....

Details can be seen in pdf,...:


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

bikezigo666 said:


> Hey, I am building a bit bigger dirt line, so here is my plan. Any comments and ideas would be appreciated,....
> 
> Details can be seen in pdf,...:


I can't read that. Try posting something with higher resolution or a link to the .pdf you mention.


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## bikezigo666 (Jul 19, 2012)

*Link to the pdf,...*

I didnt notice that the link was missing,... thanks


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

bikezigo666 said:


> I didnt notice that the link was missing,... thanks


looks great ! the only thing i noticed is that the second double has 1m (3.28 feet) longer gap than the first double. unless you're going downhill, that will cause you to have to struggle a little to make the gap without casing. you'd have to scrub-jump the first one and compress a lot and boost the second one. after a while that gets not as fun/flowy as having gaps that are matched, so you just can float through the line. if you don't want them matched, then i'd suggest have your longer jump first make it lower/flatter like race-style then make the second tall. that's a real common setup in bmx trails. long-and-low to booster.


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## bikezigo666 (Jul 19, 2012)

*Dj*



cmc4130 said:


> looks great ! the only thing i noticed is that the second double has 1m (3.28 feet) longer gap than the first double. unless you're going downhill, that will cause you to have to struggle a little to make the gap without casing. you'd have to scrub-jump the first one and compress a lot and boost the second one. after a while that gets not as fun/flowy as having gaps that are matched, so you just can float through the line. if you don't want them matched, then i'd suggest have your longer jump first make it lower/flatter like race-style then make the second tall. that's a real common setup in bmx trails. long-and-low to booster.


Thanks CMC for your reply. I have the same thoughts that is why I have reduced the gaps in the second and third kicker. Furthermore I have also made the landing a little less steep - I have used a bit larger radius for the landing than in the original version so that it would be easier to catch the landing,... What do you think?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

bikezigo666 said:


> Thanks CMC for your reply. I have the same thoughts that is why I have reduced the gaps in the second and third kicker. Furthermore I have also made the landing a little less steep - I have used a bit larger radius for the landing than in the original version so that it would be easier to catch the landing,... What do you think?


I think that looks awesome. Note that although they're definitely cool and work well, landings don't always have to have a circular radius throughout. Theres the flat bank-to-transition style which is common. There are also elliptical and parabolic ones. With dirt , guys aren't actually measuring these shapes but a lot of times eyeballing it gets you pretty close to them.
Rule of thumb though is that longer and mellowed is better. There tends to be a common mistake of people making landings too steep which shortens up the area you can actually land on. 30 degrees may sound mellow, but it actually works really well. That would be a 30-60-90 triangle where the landing is 6 feet tall and the surface length of the landing is 12 feet. Even 20-25 degree landings work well, especially for trick jumps where you don't want to be required to have an ultra precise nose-dive.

these are about the steepest a landing generally should be. 45 degrees may sound mellow but it's not. similarly, landing into a 60 degree arc means that the riders trajector would need to be even more steep than that. you would only use a landing that steep if you have a jump where you boost straight up and then really dive down.









this drawing, from rampplan.org, shows a landing with a 20 foot radius. notice how much more horizontal space there is to land on. especially if you're learning 360s, tailwhips etc.









https://rampplans.org/forums/uploads/Box_Jump.jpg










old school style bmx box jump. appears to be about 3 1/2 or 4' tall with about 8 to 10 feet down the slant of the landing. that would make it roughly 30 degrees or slightly less.









parabolic landing:


















on your roll-in, i suggest making the transition at the bottom of the slant a little bigger. i took this pic at whistler air dome. one of the coolest roll-ins i've ever seen. note how the transition you roll into is as big as large launch. i'm guessing 6' tall and 12'-ish radius.


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## Alice88 (May 12, 2012)

*dark muck*

Hi all,

Does anyone have experience with black muck soil(see picture) for creating pump track. Seems like it never going to dry out. Its still pretty "mushy" after leaving it alone for a day.

I`m almost finished with one roller consisting of lots of rocks(70%-ish of rocks) and this black muck soil. I also "sprayed" a little rocky-sand over the mud just in case. Probably wont make much difference?

Will the black muck get hard enough? How long will it take to dry?

I found some clay a little walk away. Some of it seem like 100% clay. Will black muck soil with a tin top layer of clay be good?

I`m building in the forrest. Impossible to get any dirt from the place i`m building. To many roots. But there is this little swamp with black muck right by.


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## WaveDude (Jan 14, 2004)

We've got a low area that sometimes turns into a pond when it floods. It's got good dirt/clay in the bottom of it (part of the reason it holds water for so long). Give it a chance to dry out and see what you end up with.


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## mtlatham (Oct 16, 2011)

*Valmont Park Pump Tracks - Boulder, CO*

If you haven't been here, you should go. This is the sickest bike park ever. Skills area, Flow track, 4 dirt jump lines, 4 slopestyle lines, dual slalom, and 2 pump tracks. Professionally maintained. 
Go and take one of Lee McCormack's public clinics, or even better, set up a private training session or two. My son and I just spent 3 days with him. Awesome. Worth every penny and two days driving time - and more. (Lee Likes Bikes)

Upper Mesa Pump Track


Lower Creekside Pump Track (that's my son)


Lee himself railing my Canfield Brothers Yelli Screamy 29er on both tracks:
How to Ride a Pump Track - on a 29er (Canfield Brothers Yelli Screamy) - YouTube

Two sweet flowing tracks, and the Creekside has a pretty small footprint which would make it a good pattern for a backyard track.


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## Alice88 (May 12, 2012)

WaveDude said:


> We've got a low area that sometimes turns into a pond when it floods. It's got good dirt/clay in the bottom of it (part of the reason it holds water for so long). Give it a chance to dry out and see what you end up with.


Thanks, will give it a try. I should probably cover it with something so it wont rain on it? Its rare with more then a few days with no rain here, at least this summer it seems.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

The mixture of wood and dirt and the Texas Toast Jam in Austin in October was incredible.

2012 Texas Toast Jam: Dirt Final Highlights - TransWorld RideBMX - YouTube

Note the step-up... Landing higher than launch adds to smoothness. Rolled-over corner makes it case-friendly.









Note how the wood berm wall is a 90 to flat to 90 rather than a semi-circle 180 design. This allows the rider to pump in the first corner, then pump again in the second corner. Because the radius of each corner is tighter than a full 180 would have been, it's much faster. Also the rider launches up into the wall and exits by dropping into a transition, which also adds speed.









The jumps did not have massive gaps. I paced them to be roughly in the 13-15 ft. lip to landing range.









On berm thing . . . remember when you need to turn 180 and get going the other direction in a set of trails, there are two ways (or more) to do it. You can do the full 180 radius. Or you can do 90, straight, 90. In skatepark terms, it's the equivalent of the difference between these two bowl endings. The 90-/-90 is definitily the faster of the two. If you're soaking up speed, use a full 180 radius. If you're wanting the rider to pump around it, use 90 - flat - 90.

Like I've said before in this thread, you can learn a lot about pump track design by riding cement skateparks. Pay particular attention to bowl corners that are fast and ones that feel slow.


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

cmc4130 said:


> Note how the wood berm wall is a 90 to flat to 90 rather than a semi-circle 180 design. This allows the rider to pump in the first corner, then pump again in the second corner. Because the radius of each corner is tighter than a full 180 would have been, it's much faster.


Hi cmc, I'm currently building our back-yard pump track (still working on drainage and sorting one line out) and was wondering what the minimum radius would be for a 90º to flat to 90º rather than a straight 180º? We're limited by trees and have got a maximum 4m or 13ft outer diameter to play with for both berms.

Track is for my young son as well as myself, so the radius can't be crazy tight 

Thanks for any advice.
si


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

si618 said:


> Hi cmc, I'm currently building our back-yard pump track (still working on drainage and sorting one line out) and was wondering what the minimum radius would be for a 90º to flat to 90º rather than a straight 180º? We're limited by trees and have got a maximum 4m or 13ft outer diameter to play with for both berms.
> 
> Track is for my young son as well as myself, so the radius can't be crazy tight
> 
> ...


When you say "outer diameter," are you referring to the widest area that there will be any dirt (including the backside of the berm) or are you referring to the top edge of the riding surface (which would be equivalent to the coping in a skate bowl) ?

Depending on how steep you slant the backside of the berm, the bottom of the backside of the berm could be another 2'6" (like in this picture) or more further out.










So if your outer diameter of space to work with is only 13, then that only leaves you a 6'6" radius to the back of the berm, meaning the radius at the riding line might only be 4'-ish. IMO, that's just not going to work well with a 180 berm.

That said, Lee McCormack's Welcome to Pump Track Nation e-book has a diagram of The Fix pump track (I guess from back in 2004 or so) that shows a super-tight 180 berm with a 38" radius to the riding line. I have talked with a friend who rode that pump track. He's a guy who used to win 4x races and he thought the Fix pump track was crazy tight/tech/difficult-and-not-in-a-good-way. But he also said that once you kind of got the hang of a full body tilt-should-drop-lunge into that tiny radius, you started to get the hang of it.... It kind of seems like the tighter a 180 radius gets, the more the face of the berm has to go to almost-vert. You really have to get sideways to pin it.

I saw this pic on Facebook, of the Sombrio Ladies pump track jam, Whistler.
Even though they're wood, these transitioned-face bowl corner style berms are rad. Note how they continued the transition up to almost-vert, just to ensure that no one is going over the top.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

si618 said:


> Hi cmc, I'm currently building our back-yard pump track (still working on drainage and sorting one line out) and was wondering what the minimum radius would be for a 90º to flat to 90º rather than a straight 180º? We're limited by trees and have got a maximum 4m or 13ft outer diameter to play with for both berms.
> 
> Track is for my young son as well as myself, so the radius can't be crazy tight
> 
> ...





cmc4130 said:


> When you say "outer diameter," are you referring to the widest area that there will be any dirt (including the backside of the berm) or are you referring to the top edge of the riding surface (which would be equivalent to the coping in a skate bowl) ?
> 
> Depending on how steep you slant the backside of the berm, the bottom of the backside of the berm could be another 2'6" (like in this picture) or more further out.


CMC sums it up well. If you have a 6.5 radius, a 90 berm-pump-90 berm could work. With exit bumps, you could berm - double - berm which would be cool

If you have to build inside the 13 then maybe going to a hybrid track would help. A smooth transition to a wall could give you enough vert to maintain (and increase speed on the exit). That way you can come straight at it and leave straight away from it. (think half a half pipe and tall )
On our track, I don't want any 180 berms because I'd like every berm to pump and
I don't want anything smaller than a 10ft radius to maintain a high speed track.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

good points YRG!

i hope this doesn't derail the thread . . . but cement skatepark bowls / pools can be very inspiring with pump track design. visualize the line(s) your tires are going to take.










This guy's taking what is kind of the green line above... Sideways pump first corner, ride the back wall straight across, pump second corner....


































Pool Archive - Longboardism.com

okay now look at this.... what a call a low-high-low berm. you enter low you carve high and you exit low. that's what skaters typically do when carving bowls...







(from Red Bull Pump Ride video)

this is also a low-high-low banked turn:









however, when you have a roller into a turn and a roller out... it's an attempt to reverse it. going down the roller into the berm, makes you go low around the middle of the turrn, then you start to go up again when you exit. even more extreme is a landing down into a turn... definitely makes you take a low line and means the berm does not have to be tall. like this one:









this one is more like ribbon in, then horiztontal around, then ribbon out:









see how this guy is taking a low line around this berm. (from Mark Weir pump track video):


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

cmc4130 said:


> When you say "outer diameter," are you referring to the widest area that there will be any dirt (including the backside of the berm) or are you referring to the top edge of the riding surface (which would be equivalent to the coping in a skate bowl)?


Widest area I have for dirt. On the west-side berm I might be able to squeeze another foot or two of radius, but east-side is maxed out without removing a big bush, which might not go down well with the better ½ ;-) since I've already cleared a fair bit of vegetation.

I'll post some pictures in my next post, as my count will be 10 by then.



> Depending on how steep you slant the backside of the berm, the bottom of the backside of the berm could be another 2'6" (like in this picture) or more further out.
> 
> So if your outer diameter of space to work with is only 13, then that only leaves you a 6'6" radius to the back of the berm, meaning the radius at the riding line might only be 4'-ish. IMO, that's just not going to work well with a 180 berm.


One problem I can see is I've got a big pine tree on the east berm, and a big gum tree on the west berm, both are right at the exit points. I'm planning on using rollers on all entries and exits, but it could get messy if there's too much speed being created in the berms.


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

Here's a picture of the east berm, note the pine tree and big diosma bush on the exits:









And the west berm, on the right you can just see the big grey box gum tree on the exit on the right:









One issue with widening the west berm radius is that whilst I could squeeze a bit extra on the northern side, the entry is quite narrow and due to the bushes, a fixed location on the southern side:








So if it was widened, on entry there would need to be a small berm on the inside to kick you left before turning right, and conversely (to work both directions) the berm might have to keep going a little further than a straight 90º on the exit. Not sure how that would work.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

si618 said:


> Here's a picture of the east berm, note the pine tree and big diosma bush on the exits:
> 
> And the west berm, on the right you can just see the big grey box gum tree on the exit on the right:
> 
> So if it was widened, on entry there would need to be a small berm on the inside to kick you left before turning right, and conversely (to work both directions) the berm might have to keep going a little further than a straight 90º on the exit. Not sure how that would work.


Wow, that is tight and the better you make the berm to accommodate the tightness, the tighter it becomes. 
If it were me, I'd come in and cut anything in my way out, but your yard looks nice so that could pose a problem. Maybe wall hits will get you in and out of tight places and let you keep speed going in and out.


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## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

I had a backyard pump track for the last 1.5 years and decided to level it because of the dirt it was built with. I dug my natrual soil to get the track dirt, but it does not compact well so made for a very high maintance track.
This time around I am going to purchase better compacting soil and probably add a sprinkler system. I don't have a lot of space for the track, 88'x16' oval. My last track was an oval with the center filled in with rollers and a small tabletop so that I could change directions any where with in it.
With my limited space, I want to see if anyone might have some input on raising the fun factor on such a small track? Here is a sketch. I know the size is not very big, but thats what I have to work with.


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

YRG said:


> Wow, that is tight and the better you make the berm to accommodate the tightness, the tighter it becomes.
> If it were me, I'd come in and cut anything in my way out, but your yard looks nice so that could pose a problem. Maybe wall hits will get you in and out of tight places and let you keep speed going in and out.


I took your advice and dug another 50cm or so of dirt out of the hill side of the berm, and used rock to build up the low side, so it's now as wide as I can make it, and the berms should be able to be steeper and narrower now.

It's taken ages to finish the problem area of the track, my place is on a sloping block so I had to cut a bench and build a drystone wall and infill in one section of the rollers to make it level and wide enough. Site access is a biatch, so no dingo diggers, all done by hand, but it's done now and the drainage is in.

Took me a while to find a good local source of heavy clay soil, but just found some and hiring a tipper truck on Friday to transport it. Then have to shift 10-20? tonne from the top of our garden to the bottom!

Really got no idea how much dirt will be needed, I'm going to start with 10 tonne and see how I go.



fuenstock said:


> I had a backyard pump track for the last 1.5 years and decided to level it because of the dirt it was built with. I dug my natrual soil to get the track dirt, but it does not compact well so made for a very high maintance track.
> This time around I am going to purchase better compacting soil and probably add a sprinkler system. I don't have a lot of space for the track, 88'x16' oval. My last track was an oval with the center filled in with rollers and a small tabletop so that I could change directions any where with in it.
> With my limited space, I want to see if anyone might have some input on raising the fun factor on such a small track?.


That's almost the same size as my track, my plan is to have a pimple roller/transition in the middle of the track, not sure what else you can do to up the fun factor?

I hear you with the dirt woes, ours is pretty crappy so I didn't want to build with it, but a local graveyard has good heavy clay soil which should be ideal, and they are always wanting to get rid of dirt to make space for bodies ;-)


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## fuenstock (May 14, 2006)

si618 said:


> That's almost the same size as my track, my plan is to have a pimple roller/transition in the middle of the track, not sure what else you can do to up the fun factor?
> 
> I hear you with the dirt woes, ours is pretty crappy so I didn't want to build with it, but a local graveyard has good heavy clay soil which should be ideal, and they are always wanting to get rid of dirt to make space for bodies ;-)


Kind of your same Idea, I had a small 4' gap jump in the middle that could be hit in both directions. I also made multiple options to change direction within the track. Makes it alot more fun then just going in a circle. I've already leveled my track and will rebuild with good dirt this time.


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

curved wall rides at either end, spine in the middle.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

fuenstock said:


> With my limited space, I want to see if anyone might have some input on raising the fun factor on such a small track? .....





pnj said:


> curved wall rides at either end, spine in the middle.


yeah definitely. i was going to say something similar... which is that the best way to increase the fun factor in a small area is to build UP vertically. you need artificial elevation on both ends of the yard. either in the form of platforms with roll-ins, quarter pipes, wall-rides, dirt tranisition up to wood slant, whatever.... then you can put something jumpable in the middle, like a box jump, dirt tabletop or double, a spine, etc. 
so even if you're not necessarily thinking of wanting ramps or riding in a bmx style.... just note how the elevation at both ends of this area allow you to generate speed. 
Steven Moxley Backyard Ramp Session - YouTube










Roll-ins

this now-dead pump track had a slant-wall-ride at the bottom end. riding up that slant and dropping down again gave you momentum to get back up the slight incline... You could make the wall less slanted if you want it to act more like a wedge than a wall ride. and, as pnj said, curved wallrides, which act like berms. Austin local Pierce:








Ninth Street BMX, the official local's site -Austin, Texas. Non profit, Non biased, Digger run.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

*Waiting for spring*

Here is the work we started last fall. Got lucky and some local construction brought us about 100 dump truck loads of near perfect dirt. Can't wait to get it up and going. First phase is a pump n jump with a full jump line skirting the side.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

YRG said:


> Here is the work we started last fall. Got lucky and some local construction brought us about 100 dump truck loads of near perfect dirt. Can't wait to get it up and going. First phase is a pump n jump with a full jump line skirting the side.


nice !

you probably already know this, but i'll say it for everyone's benefit regarding building with a Bobcat: if you get dirt delivered and it's dry throughout . . . it really helps to have someone spraying water while the bobcat is dumping dirt... you need dampness throughout the pile for it to pack down properly. you can't just move all the dirt with a bobcat and then water at the end and hope it soaks through. that will just create a crust on top that looks packed, but later it may crack in big chunks, since it hasn't binded to the dirt underneath. even best is when you shape and pack as you go. so you'd basically water and pack in layers, which is basically what road builders and house foundation builders do.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

cmc4130 said:


> nice !
> 
> you probably already know this, but i'll say it for everyone's benefit regarding building with a Bobcat: if you get dirt delivered and it's dry throughout . . . it really helps to have someone spraying water while the bobcat is dumping dirt... you need dampness throughout the pile for it to pack down properly. you can't just move all the dirt with a bobcat and then water at the end and hope it soaks through. that will just create a crust on top that looks packed, but later it may crack in big chunks, since it hasn't binded to the dirt underneath. even best is when you shape and pack as you go. so you'd basically water and pack in layers, which is basically what road builders and house foundation builders do.


Thank you for the tip. I would be surprised if dry was a problem since it's all under snow right now, but the well is right next to the track.


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## 1533clydesdale (Jan 11, 2013)

So I have just read through this entire thread and there is a ton of useful information on here! Thanks to all the contributors!
I notice in this thread most people have very small space...I have the opposite problem I live on seven acres of property want to devote about 4-5 acres to build an awsome pump/jump slash DJ spot. The only problen is the property only has one natuaral hill thats about 30' elevation change and don't know how to utilize the rest of the property. 
One big plus I have is we have a family excavtion business and I have acess to heavy equipment free of charge but am unsure how to use my space the best
any help is apperciated.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

1533clydesdale said:


> So I have just read through this entire thread and there is a ton of useful information on here! Thanks to all the contributors!
> I notice in this thread most people have very small space...I have the opposite problem I live on seven acres of property want to devote about 4-5 acres to build an awsome pump/jump slash DJ spot. The only problen is the property only has one natuaral hill thats about 30' elevation change and don't know how to utilize the rest of the property.
> One big plus I have is we have a family excavtion business and I have acess to heavy equipment free of charge but am unsure how to use my space the best
> any help is apperciated.


30 feet is plenty to get speed. Once you have it is easy to keep if the track is designed well. Flat can be an advantage is some ways.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

1533clydesdale said:


> So I have just read through this entire thread and there is a ton of useful information on here! Thanks to all the contributors!
> I notice in this thread most people have very small space...I have the opposite problem I live on seven acres of property want to devote about 4-5 acres to build an awsome pump/jump slash DJ spot. The only problen is the property only has one natuaral hill thats about 30' elevation change and don't know how to utilize the rest of the property.
> One big plus I have is we have a family excavtion business and I have acess to heavy equipment free of charge but am unsure how to use my space the best
> any help is apperciated.


This might seem like an extreme amount of effort, but I think it's worth talking about the concept anyway.... When you have only one elevation on a piece of land, it means that once you go down it, you have to turn around and hike/crank back up the hill. It's worth considering creating an artificial elevation opposite the natural elevation so that when you go down one, across some flat then up the other side, not only do you have something to turn around on, you can also hang out there for a breather, then drop in off it to crank back up your hill.










In skatepark design, skateboarders often use a "basin" design, which means that there is elevation around the perimeter, then you drop into the middle area to hit stuff like pyramids grind boxes etc. then you use your momentum to get up the other side of the basin. The same can apply in biking situations.

If you ever ride at Valmont, you'll notice the slopestyle hill . . . You hike up it, ride down... then have to hike up it again.








Considering that they made several artifical elevations there, I'm a little surprised they didn't build a "turn-around" hill for the slopestyle lines....










See how they created an artifical elevation with a platform to start from here:









One year at Crankworx, they built a quarter pipe at the end of the runs. Besides being a cool thing to hit, it also operated as an artificial elevation that allowed riders to re-gain some gravity momentum to turn around and go back up to the top of the course.









All this said.... even though you have a lot of space and access to heavy equipment, I advise just building one section or even just one jump at a time. Moving the dirt is only part of it. Shaping and packing takes just as much if not more effort. You want to build your lines progressively. If you try to lay out the whole track in the beginning, you can easily make mistakes on spacing and gap distances and have to rebuild stuff.

This spot, my friend Abel primarily built with help from a lot of our crew.
Allied Compound -- End of the World Jam - January 2012 He decided that down-gradient run was fine, without the turnaround aspect that I've been talking about. 
If you watch this video, you can kinda see the how the layout works. You end up at a lower elevation. 
RBM Allied Compound Trip on Vimeo Jumps heading downgradient can be fun though, because you get the opportunity for step-downs like this:









Dual-slalom and 4-cross tracks tend to side-wind down a hillside.
https://dirtdivas.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/839117419_ddrf8-o.jpg

heh, there's a lot to think about...


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

*Little help please*

Got a question. I would like to put in a bmx style line (or 2) of rollers, step up rollers, and rollers with tables. (look at the 3 pics I took out of a vid). It appears the rollers are raised up from the rest of the track. Why is that? I would also like to know about spacing and height so we can have something fast (come in with speed and leave with maybe even more). Been reading as much as I can but would appreciate some input on this one particular aspect. Pulled the pics from here.
Anyone shed some light as to why the rollers stay mostly above the bottom of the track?

What is a good size, radius, and spacing for fast?
Thanks


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

YRG said:


> Got a question. I would like to put in a bmx style line (or 2) of rollers, step up rollers, and rollers with tables. (look at the 3 pics I took out of a vid). It appears the rollers are raised up from the rest of the track. Why is that? I would also like to know about spacing and height so we can have something fast (come in with speed and leave with maybe even more). Been reading as much as I can but would appreciate some input on this one particular aspect. Pulled the pics from here.
> Anyone shed some light as to why the rollers stay mostly above the bottom of the track?
> 
> What is a good size, radius, and spacing for fast?
> Thanks


I'm glad you posted that. That spot is an EXCELLENT example of a bmx-racer-designed-and-focused pump track.

Now watch this: Stowe Bike Park Pump Track - YouTube . Note the different style of riding. At the Stowe pump track, the rider keeps both wheels on the ground and does full-bike pumps...wheelbase up, wheelbase over, wheelbase down. It is more like surfing dirt waves.....

The BMX race version is a lot more technical. Notice how he mostly manuals.... I love the BMX race style because you get to work on different skills like multiple roller manualing, pre-manualing (where you manual on the flat then press the nose down on the backside of a roller), speed-jumping roller sets, etc. The reason there are raised roller sets, is to add fun and difficulty of having more up-and-down elevation on an area that is otherwise flat; the other reason is that it provides more technical challenge--you have to double-up-manual and double-down-manual etc.

I like to mix both these styles in my designs. Sometimes the rollers on BMX race tracks can be too peaky. I think this comes from the unique history of BMX tracks, where, like in motocross, the "whoop-de-doo" section was not designed to generate speed or be smooth, it was designed to mess you up !! The idea was to get through it with technical skill and not get bucked. Gradually the "whoops" were mellowed out into rollers that flowed better. BMX racers got really good at pressing the nose into the backsides and creating pump. But still, the idea was not exactly the same as full-bike "wave" pumping. Mixing the two styles together is an art form.

The key design principle with rollers is "less is more." If it looks awesome/sweet/killer, it is probably too much (i.e. too peaky/too abrupt/too spine-ish/too speedbump-ish) !! MELLOW them out. I personally believe 10 foot peak to peak is a minimum distance, 11 seems to be great for slower speeds, 13 works awesome for general riding, and 15+ works well for relatively faster trails. Forget about speed bumps and think about waves. (However, if you want gap-able sets of rollers then pair them up... a set that is 7-9 foot spaced, then 11-13 foot bowl, then 7 foot again etc. You will then gap every short set. Multiple-gapping of evenly spaced rollers is a skill that expert and pro BMX racers have down, but is actually pretty tough.

This is a shot from 4 1/2 years ago at my spot. They start close together and small and gradually get more stretched out and elongated:









I did this drawing to illustrate domed-over rollers rather than peaky rollers. I'm not saying rollers have to be exactly to this design--there are LOTS of ways to do it, and tons of shapes are rideable. I'm trying to help/educate y'all to design ideas, not to provide one-size-fits-all plans ! Think about and experiment with your shapes... pack them in, ride them, change them . . . this sport is about creativity. It's not about cookie-cutter ! ! Nothing gets me stoked more than a new tweak to rideable landscape!


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

cmc4130 Thanks!
I like the comment on creativity. What a great feeling having a blank canvas. I am looking to incorporate aspects from the "surf" style, bmx style and dj into one track. So the competition pump tracks (sea otter etc), bmx tracks and dirt jumps along with this thread are the source for ideas.
I have a follow up question about your statement "one jump at a time", I've been getting mixed advice that falls into two camps.
1) build a piece, then build the next so they flow
2) lay out the design so that spacing and radii are consistent and go
It seems that (in general) dirt jumpers favor the first school and pump track and trail builders favor the second. Since radius and flow are so critical in a pump track, I am leaning towards the second, but I hear you advocating the first. Could you please elaborate???


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

cmc is on point with his advice.

as for your 1) and 2) ideas, I see them as the same idea. Layout the track but BUILD each thing/pump/jump/etc one at a time. Start at the beginning and work your way towards the end. 

it's ok if your layout changes a bit but DO NOT draw your design and randomly put the pumps in. I've seen tracks that had a good layout but were built with a 'work party' where 50 different people built the track. So the first jump didn't set you up well for the second and so forth.

Also, remember that it is dirt so it's easy to change/fix. and as your skills increase you'll find ways to change the track. There is no perfect track. 

If you're in the NW part of the USA, I'd be happy to come help.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

pnj said:


> cmc is on point with his advice.
> 
> as for your 1) and 2) ideas, I see them as the same idea. Layout the track but BUILD each thing/pump/jump/etc one at a time. Start at the beginning and work your way towards the end.
> 
> ...


I was hoping for that kind of answer. Start with a design and then build one at a time and check for flow. Thanks for the offer. We are in Park City so if you find yourself out this way shoot a message and come ride


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## davefj40 (Sep 18, 2008)

anyone in the DE/PA/MD area who has built one of these? Looking to put one on my property and would love to see any local examples.

Great thread


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Hey sorry if I missed this, but I looked through the thread a couple times but didn't see anything that addressed jump size and spacing when going down hill. A group of us are working with the city of Cottage Grove MN to build a bike park and the area we are working with has a 5% natural Grade loss as well we will put probably a 6ft tall starting hill for the jumps. The jump line we have around 400 linear feet to work with. I am looking for input on the spacing and jump size. We are looking to do more of the big step up style jumps and are really going for more of the lofty competition style jumps over the tight trail rhythm style jumps but not extremely huge so how far peak to peak for the jumps, how tall should the lip be to the landing and how far would you all recommend between jumps?


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

kind of like this picture







I'm thinking kind of like the last jump in this video but smaller Martin Söderström and Xavi Pasamonte at Morrilla trails - Just for fun - YouTube

dose like a 4ft lip and 7 ft landing with maybe 5-6 ft peak to peak seem appropriate for the first jumps in the line of probably 5-6?

and this is the general lay out for the park that has been approved









there will be a entrance/chill area, that box in the top right of the picture then a return line to get too the top and then a 4x track about 850-900 linear foot long, then that is the big jump line just below that, below that on the picture is the medium and small jump lines side by side and then the big box will be the MTB skills area, drops/skinnies/rocks that stuff. then on the right side will be 2 pump tracks and a tot track, the shapes of the pump tracks were hard to cad so we just put basics in there. they will be way cooler then that when done. 
here is a link to the FB page for this park https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cottage-Grove-Bike-Park/596908407004866

and here is the link to the park we built last summer, just a couple things to finish and that is located in Eagan MN

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Eaga...on-Street-Bike-ParkDirt-Jumps/177695292318263

thanks for your help. We've never built a jump line with a down hill with that much grade loss


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

cglasford said:


> . . . the area we are working with has a 5% natural Grade loss as well we will put probably a 6ft tall starting hill for the jumps. The jump line we have around 400 linear feet to work with. I am looking for input on the spacing and jump size. We are looking to do more of the big step up style jumps and are really going for more of the lofty competition style jumps over the tight trail rhythm style jumps but not extremely huge so how far peak to peak for the jumps, how tall should the lip be to the landing and how far would you all recommend between jumps?





cglasford said:


> kind of like this picture . . .
> I'm thinking kind of like the last jump in this video but smaller Martin Söderström and Xavi Pasamonte at Morrilla trails - Just for fun - YouTube
> 
> dose like a 4ft lip and 7 ft landing with maybe 5-6 ft peak to peak seem appropriate for the first jumps in the line of probably 5-6?
> . . . .


The jump in the video you mentioned appears to be around 22 feet lip to landing (just going by the bike being 5'6".









Based on your description, I think jumps in the 12 to 18 foot range (peak to peak) would be appropriate. 
If you watch this video of one of our spots (my bro Abel built it), RBM Allied Compound Trip on Vimeo, you'll see the bigger sets on the left are 18 peak to peak; the medium line on the right has gaps around 12'. 
More pics in this thread: Allied Compound -- End of the World Jam - January 2012

Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:







(pic from Odyssey's Texas Toast Jam, Austin TX. Watch the video and see how guys hit it. The other dirt jumps were around 14' lip to landing. (I paced one of them). 2012 Texas Toast Jam: Dirt Final Highlights - TransWorld RideBMX - YouTube. (Also note the roll-in off the railroad car. 6' tall is not tall enough for a roll-in. Go with 10'-12'+.

I can't tell you exactly what 5% grade will mean in terms of jump spacing (gaps and bowl lengths). Until some physicist figures it out for us, the absolute best way is to go from experience of spots that have already been built, or build one jump at a time and have your riders figure out what they're comfortable with. I would say verrrry roughly... you could do something like:
/11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____ 
What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared. I'm adding on a little. Double +3, +4, +5, +6, +7 for the reason that if you're increasing speed because of the downgradient, the bowl will move under you quicker, so each bowl should also get stretched longer to anticipate the longer jump following it.... However, I could also see spacing them out even more. Like 2.5 to 3 times the gaps. You will only know from riding it. Note, also, that you don't have to do the consecutive bowl design. You could put more flat space in between jumps and it's not going to feel 'dead' because it's still downgradient. If you were to build wood launches, you could move them to adjust--and they'd be more durable in the long run. (Although some purists don't like em).

Lastly, don't you guys want to work in some berms, wall rides, etc.? You can make it more interesting than just a big straight line of jumps. Look at some Crankworx videos for inspiration.... 
Crankworx Colorado, Winter Park:


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for the info, there is going to be berms, there will be a straight line but the first hit will have a hip right and left option that what those berms on both side are, then you hit a lip and land in a slight hip take the berm hit another jump and then have the option to hit a bigger jump or hip back into the other line... does that make sense looking at the picture? we have to pack a lot into the are, not just a dirt jump spot


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

" /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____ 
What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared." 

on this how big is the first lip to be? in this example... I'm not sure a 10ft starting ramp will happen... will depend on the city, liability and how much dirt they will give us as well, it is in a city park


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

"Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:" 

In a way that is what we are looking for shoot you really high, big hang time kind of thing but i get what you are saying... does this 11 ft min apply if the jumps are all going to be this big step up style? were the landing is 3 + feet higher then the take off? like 4ft high lip 7ft high landing?


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

cglasford said:


> " /11\_25_/12\_28_/13\_31_/14\_34_/15\_37_/16\_____
> What that means is 11 foot gap, then 25 feet from TOP of landing to TOP of next lip (i.e. the "bowl" length), then 12 foot gap, etc. Note that 11 gap then bowl length of 22, would be the old guideline of bowl being double the length of the gap you just cleared."
> 
> on this how big is the first lip to be? in this example... I'm not sure a 10ft starting ramp will happen... will depend on the city, liability and how much dirt they will give us as well, it is in a city park


the standard bmx/mtb box jump is roughly like this.









it is drawn with the gap (or table length lip to landing) as double the height. i.e. 4 tall, 8 gap. 5 tall, 10 gap. however, in bmx / mtb-dj trails, a lot of times the gap is up to 3 times as long as the height. like 5 tall, 15 gap. 6 tall, 18' gap. the gap is set by the speed you're going. you could have a 3 foot tall long and low where you still clear 18 feet if that's how fast you're going.










even when guys are going high, they still travel more distance horizontally:









so here's a concept plan i just drew for you. note, it is NOT A DESIGN PLAN. adding one foot of gap per jump is just something i'm guessing at here, because i have not been to your spot, or tested it on a 5% gradient. you ALWAYS build to the terrain and to the rider, not to a piece of paper or printout from the internet !! natural landscape is never exactly flat like an indoor bikepark warehouse. therefore, spacing has to be adjusted on the fly. also, i added extra space in between the sets, because at some point in time you might want your tables to be longer, so you'll have room to make them bigger.


__
https://flic.kr/p/3
 if you are not an experienced builder, then i strongly suggest getting with your mountain bike club and other groups, potentially hiring a design/build contractor etc. before going to the city with "plans." 
GOOD LUCK ! 

EDIT: here's another concept plan that adds a little more 'features' and creates a loop to get back to the beginning. You've got a monster roller in between jumps for a more surfy/flowy style... Then a freeride-style step-up step-down platform. Drawn here as flat.. But it could also be a dish/swoosh shape (like at Crankworx). Then the quarter to curved slant wall at the end could be done different ways... Then mellower rollers and roller-tabes to get back to the startin hill/platform..... 

__
https://flic.kr/p/1


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

cglasford said:


> "Five to six feet gap peak to peak is not good. Remember a typical DJ-mtb is about 5 1/2 feet front to back, so two bike lengths (11 feet) is an absolute minimum gap. Short-gap jumps can be blasted high, but only in a spine-riding style, which it doesn't sound like you're going for. This is what you described might look like:"
> 
> In a way that is what we are looking for shoot you really high, big hang time kind of thing but i get what you are saying... does this 11 ft min apply if the jumps are all going to be this big step up style? were the landing is 3 + feet higher then the take off? like 4ft high lip 7ft high landing?


even with the big step up style, like the Martin Soderstrom video... that lip was probably about 8 tall and the gap was (guessing) about 22'. almost three times the distance as the height.

here's a smaller step-up.









Tonic Fab News


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Dude, thanks for the drawing, pictures and videos, all great examples! you are for sure a wealth of knowledge. We will definitely take your input into consideration. There is a group of people doing the design and build work and I will share this with them. 
The main reason I put this up was to see if there was some sort of rule of thumb for the spacing on a down slope. As you said you don't really build jumps by number but the double the gap rule for spacing I've roughly followed in the past but most of the time it is build by feel. However I have never built on a down slope and I'm not 100% sure about the others so I was just doing my research to be as ready as possible as we do have to have some rough numbers for the city. Those engineer people like numbers, haha. Thanks again!


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

Why don't you find local dirt jumpers and get their input? 

I see trails built out here quite often where the builder isn't a jumper/racer but doesn't want any input on the trail they are making(which is being built for jumping/racing).

When the trail is completed, there are complaints about how it rides, safety issues, etc.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

We have some local riders input, just not that many have stepped forward. A lot like to do what you mentioned show up after the fact and give their 2 cents then. We have also got a fair amount of resistance from a few local BMX riders about bringing "their" sport main stream and making it "public" and not the old school back woods style, as well as that these new "mainstream" jumps and bike parks are being built by the MTB riders....

i wish they would all show up during the planning/design phase and at the building to provide their valuable input and experience so that it is built right and will make them happy because the point of building this is not just for myself and the small group of us building it to ride but for everyone to enjoy and to draw more people to Cottage Grove and to the sport. 

I was just doing some independent research prior to building to make sure we put out the best product we can! We have invited as many people as we can reach to come to the planning meetings and to the building days to help build and provide their input and 2 of the people on the plan/build crew are a couple of BMX guys that have built quite a bit and I'm not green at this at either. I have been racing bmx since 12 and riding dirt jumps and mtb for about 5 year now, so I ride and all the people involved ride. We aren't pro trail builders or riders though. There aren't a lot of places to ride around here though and most the stuff is underground stuff and is either so secret that you can't find it to ride and no one will tell you who built it or it is tore down in the same summer it is built. 

I am part of the local MTB club MORC and we are pushing now for legit places for alternative riding= bike parks-dirt jumps/pump tracks and we built one in Eagan Mn and it has got good reviews so far from the local riders but still is a work in progress but it was built to the double the gap rhythm style spacing and pretty much on a flat piece of land. There might be about 1% grade loss and that is the case with all the dirt jumps I've ever rode here. 

Growing up in the mid-west not a lot of elevation but the piece of land the city gave us to work with does have 5% grade and it is new territory so like cmc said it will be a bit of trial and error. I hope tons of hardcore riders show up on build days and help/provide their input, since we haven't got a lot so far. We have also consulted with IMBA trail solutions as well. 

Thanks again for all the input, suggestions and advice!


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

Sounds awesome!

Keep us updated on your progress.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

I would like to get a little input about spacing, height and radius. My goal is something inbetween a normal pump track and a bmx track. Or a very fast pump track. Any thoughts on roller spacing and height (26 ft n 2). How about berm radius (12) ? 
I have only worked on a couple tracks and the experienced builders are versed in trail, park and jumps not pump tracks. Also wondering about what kind of jumps can be incorporated without giving up speed. 
Thanks


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

cglasford said:


> . . .
> The main reason I put this up was to see if there was some sort of rule of thumb for the spacing on a down slope. As you said you don't really build jumps by number but the double the gap rule for spacing I've roughly followed in the past but most of the time it is build by feel. However I have never built on a down slope and I'm not 100% sure about the others so I was just doing my research to be as ready as possible as we do have to have some rough numbers for the city. Those engineer people like numbers, haha. Thanks again!


Time to get all Isaac Netwonian and go out there with your bike and conduct some experiments :thumbsup:










Rule of thumb: the distance you travel with a good big bunnyhop at a certain speed, can tell you a lot about how far you'll go off a jump at the same speed. As you can see here, 15 degree trajectory and the 75 degree trajectory put you in the same spot. Same with 30 and 60. 45 degrees is slightly farther. 15 degree gets you half the distance as 45 degree. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about the angle of the jump--it's the trajectory of the rider after they have left the ramp. (Riders aren't bowling balls; a rider could 'boost' a relatively flat-faced jump and still go into a 60 degree trajectory, or they could 'racer' a jump and suck it up and keep a low trajectory even on a steeper jump).

So.... you could coast down that hill and see how much farther your bunnyhops get. Get some volunteers to lie down to test your theories. 









CalcTool: Object on a slope calculator


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

YRG said:


> I would like to get a little input about spacing, height and radius. My goal is something inbetween a normal pump track and a bmx track. Or a very fast pump track. Any thoughts on roller spacing and height (26 ft n 2). How about berm radius (12) ?
> I have only worked on a couple tracks and the experienced builders are versed in trail, park and jumps not pump tracks. Also wondering about what kind of jumps can be incorporated without giving up speed.
> Thanks


there's a lot of stuff on that earlier in this thread.... so be sure to go back and check it out. i'd have to see the terrain that you have. at my spot, wcpt random edit - spring 2010 on Vimeo, the jumps are between 10-13 feet lip to landing, with most being 11'-12'. the rollers are also spaced about 12' (except in the 'accelerating rollers section'). the monster rollers and roller-tables are also pretty consistent with the 10-12ish peak-to-peak. i tend to use arms-oustretched-with-rake as a berm radius (roughly 7 1/2' or 8' ish) for berms that you pump. that's also pretty consistent with cement skateparks that commonly use 8 foot radius transitions. if you need a berm to soak up some speed at the bottom of a decline, then you need a bigger radius. then there are different shaped berms, the ribbon style, the wave, the catcher's mit,... heh.


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## the kraken (Jan 13, 2012)

Took a couple shots of my friend Dan's backyard pump track. It's fast as **** and much better looking in person!


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

Couple of questions for those who have built pump tracks:

Where do you guys recommend placement of the berm entry/exit rollers? My local trail boss recommended 50cm from where the berm ends, which seems reasonable, but I'm open to suggestions. At a guess, the berms are ~190º as one side is slightly tighter and closes in on the loop. The photo of the pump track above looks like the entry/exit rollers are closer to 1m rather than 50cm.

Also, pump track nation recommends 1 foot (~30.5cm) rollers with a 1 to 10 ratio, so 305cm between the peaks. However, the track is around 24m in length, and there will 5 rollers on each side of the run (2m berm radius plus 2 entry/exit rollers and 3 in the middle).

What I'm not sure of, is it better to:

(a) keep all the rollers at a consistent height and spacing (40cm and 400cm)
(b) drop all rollers to ~31cm and leave the spacing at 400cm.
(c) drop height and spacing of some rollers to fit.

(a) or (b) are going to be easiest, but if it's (c), is it better to drop the height of entry/exit rollers or middle rollers?

Hope that makes sense  I know the track will need tweaking once done, but it's a major pain to get dirt into the site, so if I can avoid re-working now it will save a lot of hassle in the future. Cheers!

*Update: *
Measure twice dig once! One set of rollers was actually 34cm x 3.4m and the other 35cm x 3.5m, so figured it should be low enough to keep the 1:10 spacing.


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

*Berms with or without out entry/exit rollers?*

Hi, wondering if anyone will share about rollers on entry/exit of berms. What is good/bad about them.
Why put them in/ Why leave them out?
If you leave them out would you consider the exit of the berm a trough and start climbing into a roller?

I am in the thick of design right now and a little under the gun because Sunday we are probably going to move dirt.

Thanks for any input


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

I like them on both entrance and exit if the berms aren't super tight. If I put a feature that is larger, say a double or step down right before the berm I will leave them out as you will carry more speed with out one. I feel they are there to help you generate speed into and out of the berm as many people struggle to actually pump a berm. I don't have exact sizes on the berms I don't use them on but I'd say I have either a roller in and out on 90% of the pump tracks i've built and seen unless there is a large feature that will carry crazy speed in the berm. 
the good thing about dirt is you can put them in and take them out or add them later. I would doubt if this is your first pump track it will be dialed on your first build... good luck


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

Depends on many variables. 

How fast/slow is that section of track?
Is the section of track up hill/downhill?
Will that section of track hold water?
etc.

I think rollers into and out of berms are great. You can use them to gain or scrub speed but I don't think it's a hard rule that you can fit them into every berm you create.

Where are you building your track? (what state/city)
do you have pictures?


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

pnj said:


> Depends on many variables.
> 
> How fast/slow is that section of track?
> Is the section of track up hill/downhill?
> ...


Track is flat (almost)
Will be adding drainage, so it should not be a concern
We also have more dirt than we can possibly use so the track will be raised
Trying for fast
Looking at 12ft spacing between rollers, so a little more than 12" tall
We are in Park City Ut and right now it is a leveled blank slate with a large roll in and a few features placed, but no current pics.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

"We also have more dirt than we can possibly use" is this possible? haha jam pack that baby! you can burn through some serious dirt in a serious hurry.

but raising the track is a great idea to let it dry faster. I try to do that with all the track i've built 

How big of an area do you have to work with? how many yard of dirt do you have? 

Can I make a suggestion that maybe you go a little larger then 12 inches on the rollers.... maybe more like 24 inches I've built quite a few and the little kids love the smaller rollers but most of the older riders like the larger roller/featured pump tracks I've built and the young ins can still ride it... perhaps make one smaller one for the youngins and the the rest of the space make a killer pump track, also higher berms let you carry more speed in and out of the corners....


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

Got about 1000yds 
I was thinking about bigger on the rollers. I am worried about the 10 to 1 rule and our spacing is looking good for 12' peak to peak.
The berms will be about 4' tall 
We want a track that carries lots of speed. I'll try to post up some pics this evening.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

I tried to follow that rule for the first few tracks but really you have to just eye ball it and ride it and ride what feels good, just remember don't get them too tight and don't have any flat spots, constant up and down.... the spacing can be tweeked a little depending on the bikes you are building it for, dj bikes seem to ride better on bigger rollers large spacing then on the smaller tighter spacing that a 20inch can rip... but a 20 inch can still rip hard on the bigger ones... build, ride, fix, build ride, fix... it will take some time... good luck

1000yrds is a lot but how big of any area do you have to fill?


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

and mix it up too... don't build all the same size rollers... get creative! keep it interesting you will like it!


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## pnj (Dec 15, 2008)

I would think you wouldn't need a roll in. seems like you'll be going too fast at the start....

The thing with dirt is, if it doesn't work, you can always change it. 

I don't know if your blueprints/plans will allow it but the best thing about making a pump track is making one that isn't the same as all the other pump tracks. 

elevated rollers, S-berms, alternate routes, weird and odd berms, etc. 

Have fun!


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

YRG said:


> Hi, wondering if anyone will share about rollers on entry/exit of berms. What is good/bad about them.
> Why put them in/ Why leave them out?
> If you leave them out would you consider the exit of the berm a trough and start climbing into a roller?
> 
> . . .


One effect of entrance/exit rollers can be to affect the line the rider takes around a berm and how they compress into it. Back in this post, I talked about high-low-high versus low-high-low paths around a turn:
https://forums.mtbr.com/urban-dj-park/dj-pump-track-plans-402237-8.html#post9936476

If you check out this video, Pump track M berms. - YouTube,note how the rider starts high then sort of lunges/compresses down around the berm, then de-compresses/extends the body on the exit for the 'up.' In this example, the rollers are completely blended into the berm itself. Depending on how it's blended you could think of it as taking a shape of a macaroni and then tilting the two ends up.



YRG said:


> Got about 1000yds
> I was thinking about bigger on the rollers. I am worried about the 10 to 1 rule and our spacing is looking good for 12' peak to peak.
> The berms will be about 4' tall
> We want a track that carries lots of speed. I'll try to post up some pics this evening.


A berm where the riding line is low does not have to be tall. 4 feet tall is great if you have tons of dirt....but I wouldn't say it's necessary to have a fast track. You can have a 2 foot tall steep faced berm that is very fast.

If you did not use rollers (or you pull the rollers farther back from the entrance/exit), riders would either simply ride the berm horizontally... or they might try to carve up the face of the berm. Carving up the face of a berm and then down on exit could be thought of like the "macaroni" tilted the other way, with two ends down. The result would be a low-high-low turn like this:







A low-high-low berm _does_ have to be taller. Point being, there can be a lot of different interesting ways to do it, and it's good to envision the riders' lines....

I agree with cglasford to consider larger rollers as well. However a couple of caveats with that. A taller roller often should be less peaky (more domed over) than a shorter one. The goal of a pump track is to go fast _and low_ in a horizontal direction; if a roller is tall and peaky, your body will have too much up/down accomodation to keep both wheels on the ground (although you can manual as a 'work-around'). The second caveat is rollers and speed-----what speed really does is stretch out your body's up/down positions on the track.... So, with a roller-table, like in this picture... the normal backside would be where the dotted line curves down, except now it's stretched. A rider going a certain speed can get 'weightless' (but low) over the center part (either manualing or jumping). The length of the roller table should be calibrated to how fast a typical rider is going. If I had a fast section going into a turn, I might use a stretched out roller-table before the turn, instead of a regular roller.









https://forums.mtbr.com/urban-dj-park/dj-pump-track-plans-402237-4.html#post7989657

domed-over 'monster' roller









Although this is xc/flow trail, not a pump track, it can still apply---I like to extend the second half of berms longer, then have a 'down' transition to 'land/compress' on. So the exit roller is not like a bump-turn-bump. it's more like lean-curve-up-then-drop....
This is a view of one we did from the bottom looking back up the trail (rider will be coming down from the right and exiting towards the camera.








https://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/how-many-years-have-you-been-building-flow-country-trails-615278.html


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

Lovin the input here, Thanks. Macaroni up or down sounds fun. So some berms with bumps and some without sounds like the right approach. Thought I would post up a few pics of the space as it looks today.
Here is the whole layout. The pile of dirt far right is one of our stacks.
If you see furthest back there is a high dirt line, that is top level of the 3 level track. Main level is the biggest. The lowest berm on the left is the bottom level.







Jump line will feed the big bottom berm.







Right behind the skid you can see the high line. Hoping it will have at least a couple jumps down to the main level.







Best picture of the high line. The big pile on the right will roll in straight to the camera and left staying on top. Pretty stoked on the possibilities here.







Think I'm going to start with a loop inside a loop and see where that goes.


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## rottendan (Dec 17, 2008)

*front yard pump track*

This is my first build using a machine and imported dirt and i gotta say it's nice. The area Im working with is roughly 80'x40' and it slopes in one corner. I had to add drainage in this corner because of the large berm and roller that made a catch for the water. We dug down about 10'' below the lowest point of where the puddle formed and put in 4'' drain pipe, back filled with rock and wrapped that with filter cloth. back filled with sand and a layer of top soil to finish. It's not a fast moving drain like a down spout but, more like a leach. Got the outer line roughed in and got more dirt coming this weekend to finish the in field. Then put the bike on it and ride tweak repet:thumbsup:


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

looking really sick!


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

*cottage grove bike park*

Things are finally starting to come together.... We have been working on the 4x track with a Bulldozer, excavator, front end loaders and skid steer. We had our first build week last week from 7/11- 7/18 and we are having our first community build day this Saturday. Great support from the city and a local excavating company so we have moved aroudn 4500 cubic yrds of dirt so far and have over 1000yrds sitting on the side ready to be put into place. 
check it out 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cottage-Grove-Bike-Park/596908407004866

here are some pictures of it so far


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## Rmneal01 (Jun 29, 2013)

Looks awesome


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

here is a link to some more pictures from our last build 
MOUNTAIN BIKING


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## MisterObvious (Aug 22, 2013)

I joined this site today just to say *thank you * to all the people that have contributed to this thread. I hope to start messing with a backyard track for my daughter and I to play around on soon. :thumbsup:


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

So we continue to push on and build, remember this park is built 100% by volunteers up until this point at least and on a really limited budget but here are a couple pictures 














here is a video of it 





we are having a fund raiser on 9/14 to help get some more cash to continue building https://www.facebook.com/events/1375990429292993/

check us out on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cottage-Grove-Bike-Park/596908407004866


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## C_S (Nov 4, 2004)

Whoa. Looks fun, but way, waaaaayyy too many flat spots and therefore pedaling in between everything. Just my .02.

Done right (at least, in my mind) you should pedal off the start hill then never again.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

That would be one crazy pump track but I haven't seen many 4x or BMX tracks were you don't have to pedal.. it is a fun track and you don't have to pedal all that much. More rollers could be added pretty easily though


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## boudroux (Sep 11, 2010)

Awesome thread! I just finished one in my backyard. I'm building a workshop and rented a backhoe to dig the footings and the pile of dirt was freaking huge. I had never ridden a pump track before but watched videos on the net and they looked like a blast and since I had the machine I moved around one run of future rollers along my block wall and left the remaining pile in the center of my yard. Because of the shop, a tree and a kids play set that is in the works a L shaped track seemed best. After eyeballing the first run of rollers I figured it would be smart to do 5 minutes of research and I purchased Lee's Pump Track book. It turns out my eyeball was pretty decent and the piles were all roughly 9-11 feet apart. Everything else I moved by hand.

One thing I needed to consider is that I have 3 and 5 year old sons and the track needs to be mellow enough for them until they get a little older. My 5 year old could certainly ride larger features but I don't want to discourage the youngest so the track is pretty mellow.

With the book in hand I used surveyors stakes to mark the radius for the turns and went to town. Having never ridden a pump track let alone ever built a single dirt feature it has been a very fun learning experience. I'm still trying to envision a middle section that will go around the tree. My house is on septic with a seepage pit that can't be covered so unfortunately I can never build over a section by the first turn and my chicken coop which ideally would be a good spot for a middle section. Hopefully I will meet an experienced rider who will come to my track and give feedback on improvements one of these days.

I learned hands on much of the advice in this thread, some of my rollers are super and flow good, some are to small/peaky and don't flow well however I enjoy the hard work and am fortunate enough to work from home so the option to put in a couple hours or so a day is very easy.

A few things that were mentioned but in my opinion should be emphasized. Water, the more the better. A pile of dirt that is moist throughout is so much easier to work with. Once I figured that out what I did was continuously soak the loose piles that were not being worked on. Once I got around to them the moisture had wicked throughout and they packed in super easy.

I scavenged my yard for base material. The previous owners left behind hundreds of red bricks as well as the largest collection of horrible garden statues ever. All my features have a base layer of rocks, bricks or plaster animals/kids/garden gnomes under them. I already can see it will be a problem in the future and will not do that as I make changes going forward.

I also found that going in layers made it pack in faster on the piles that I moved by hand. I would make the first layer, walk on it, smack it and not worry to much about shape. I just got it good and tight. Then I would make the second layer that would be shaped.

Be prepared to work, sweat and work. I've done all this by myself and probably have over 50 hours into it so far. I would say being able to dedicate ample time to work through it proper and not feel rushed is pretty important.

As for the turns. The big one is a 12 foot and the others are right around 7'ish on the radius. The rollers are all around 9-12 feet apart. The longer spacing flows much better.

Lastly, just go for it. Planing is good and thinking it through is necessary however dirt don't move by itself so get out and just dig.

Here is my track. I've also never made a video so this is a first time video maker riding his first pump track build. At the end is my 3 and 5 year old (yellow shirts) and their cousin.

Thanks again for a great thread.

Chicken Track - YouTube


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

*cottage grove bike park*

Jump line is starting to come together!


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## Garasaki (Apr 7, 2010)

I understand IMBA is having an advanced trail building school. Focusing on pump track and jump park design and construction. In Eagan Minnesota. One major component of which is a day of trail buidling at a "local riding area."

Hmmmmmm


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Actually its at the cottage grove bike park but it is going to happen in two weekends!


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Here are a couple pictures of the pump tracks that were just built at Cottage Grove Bike park this last week


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

Finally, after 2 year of planning and negotiation ... Pretty small scale, but at least its a step in the right direction. I was wondering what you guys are using for compacting the soil?
https://picasaweb.google.com/115795269035553255174/B2bPumpTrack


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

looks like it will be a solid lay out. My one observation, I learned this the hard way, is to pin the corners (build them first) and then lay out he features between them. It will allow for more accurate spacing.

we use a wacker 1550 plate compactor


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

thanks for the tips


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## Garasaki (Apr 7, 2010)

Fastfish, can you expand a little bit on your project?

Is it on public ground? Who and how did you work with the landowner? What were your major hurdles?


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

Bit of an update, fortunately a local mountain biker had a vibrating-plate compactor we could borrow and it worked pretty well. Spent half a day on it, fine-tuning the shapes of the rollers (they didnt compact as much as expected).
Its a project thats been going on for almost 2 years now! The bike club in the town (of which Im a member) was approached by the Mairie (we're in France) to try to provide something for the young (and old) cyclists -- mainly because some teenagers had been building dirt jumps in inappropriate locations. OK so we've not got to the DJ part yet, but at least we have something to show for the negotiations. Its built on land that was donated to the town on the condition that it was used for children's activities (it has a {fairly} unused soccer pitch on it) so the pump-track falls into that requirement. The soil came from a farmer whose son is in the cycling club -- the town council brought the soil to the location for us so we "just" have to shape it into a track. Unfortunately its all taken a long time, and we are heading into winter (with snow and rain) I just hope the track wont get too destroyed by the weather before it has a chance to properly harden.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Looks good... If you can get that plate packer back, do every surface not just the riding surface... go up and down the back sides, square off the tops of the berms and run the packer on top of them... the more you can compact the better it will set up and then if you really want to top it off, toss a little black dirt on the back side of the berms and plant some grass on it. it will help secure the berms and solidify the pump track and will slow erosion but will also help it blend into the park and looks really pro


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

good tips -- all in the plan  trying to get the gardening club interested so they can plant some herbaceous borders. Unfortunately rain (and work) stopped play today


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## dl1030 (Sep 3, 2009)

tarps are amazing, if you can swing a few euros it is worth it. keeps plants from growing in spring. keeps people off the track during snow/sleet/rain. when you pull them off in the spring, it is so awesome to let it dry for a few hours and rip away with no labor (minus pulling the tarps off). 

and with time, everything will sink. rolleds may be big right now, but they will go down. 

looking good.


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

fastfish666 said:


> I was wondering what you guys are using for compacting the soil?


Whilst a plate compactor seems ideal, a tamper is pretty good, plus you get an awesome workout at the same time ;-) Something like this, although I went with a steel pole after breaking a wooden handle on a berm.

I also bought a second hand water filled lawn roller when building our pump track, doesn't compact as much as a tamper, but nice and smooth finish.


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

Phase one complete (need some grass on the edges and a bit of filling after a period of initial settling). Now for the bigger line/loop with some proper jumps in it ...


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

hand tamps are great for vertical surfaces and then follow it up with a good old slap pack from a square shovel! 

the pump tracks looking good! 

you're right you will never get it completely compacted with tools. It will take thousands of riders and then the first few rain events will cause some settling and you will need to fix those areas.

Also if you live someplace that actually gets snow the true compaction test will be winter. After the first winter and a good buffing you shouldn't see too much for settling in the future! 

Good luck on the rest of your build!


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Just a little video from the IMBA advanced trail building school- bike park addition


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## fastfish666 (Aug 24, 2007)

cglasford said:


> Just a little video from the IMBA advanced trail building school- bike park addition


awesome!!!


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Well, I have spent part of the past two days reading through this thread, and I'm blown away by some of the information, tips, and ideas thrown in here. But why am I looking at this thread?

I've built a lot of XC trail. I'm building some right now for a city park near where I live. As part of this park, they have a section marked off for a "BMX" track. First, I feel like I need to point out, no one races BMX around here. The intent is simply for an "everyone" friendly track that kids can ride and parents can either watch or ride along, for people who aren't into mountain biking. But the mountain bikers are all about a pump track/DJ track. And so am I. And I see no reason why, especially after reading this thread, it can't be a good pump/jump track that's completely rollable by..well, pretty much anyone who can manage a bike.

To top that idea off, there are actually two usable locations for a track. One is 100ft by 200ft, and has a natural "half bowl" shape with, maybe 15 feet of elevation from the lip to the bottom. The other space is 300ft by 300ft, with more of a natural half-pipe shape to it that's narrower on the top end, and wider on the bottom end - which is to say, in the top slightly higher end, the hills nearly meet in the middle (oh yeah, there's a natural gully there) and on the lower side, it flattens out a bit, and the gully goes away. So my thoughts work like this:

Smaller, easier pump track in the small space.

Larger more advanced pump/jump track in the larger space.

For all my trail building, I've never built a pump track before, so I'm open to recommendations. A lot of what I've seen on this thread has been back yard stuff, obviously some of it is larger, but most of the plans just aren't very big. For building, I know I can use the mini-ex I'm using to build XC trail, and I'm relatively certain I can get a bob-cat for the heavy lifting, and keep the ex for fine tuning, shaping, etc. 

What's a good starting point outside of this thread for me? Does the Lee book still apply to me? Or should I not bother since it's focused more on back yard stuff? Are there other resources out there showing pump track plans and layouts with specs and drawings I can look at for ideas? I've ridden a few pump tracks, but never really considered the science behind them while riding them. I've built some flow trail, and assume similar principles will apply, but I don't want to find out the hard way that I'm way off base.

Thanks for all the great information that's already here, and any additional pointers you folks can provide.

PS: both locations are thickly wooded. I'll be clearing paths for the track through the woods, so I want to get my layout/design base right the first time, so I can at least continue to use the same cleared paths through the woods. Moving rollers around on those paths to fine tune things is ok, but I only want to clear what I need to ride through.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Cotharyus said:


> . . .
> 
> I've built a lot of XC trail. I'm building some right now for a city park near where I live. As part of this park, they have a section marked off for a "BMX" track. . . . .


* Be sure to involve bmx and mtb-dj riders in your process.

* Consider hiring professionals with design experience or find local underground-scene diggers who have already built rad spots.

* Have a healthy respect for knowing what you don't know. BMX riders wouldn't be asked to design singletrack, so don't hesitate to ask them for assistance/input (maybe even give them creative control).

* You will always have to do revisions and fixes. There are no online plans or books that can tell you how to do it exactly right the first time. Just like singletrack, mtbmx trails are tailored to the landscape. Even very subtle grade changes can make a big difference on whether something works. Plus, part of mtbmx trails is the love of dirt design--there can always be improvements.

* Cookie-cutter designs are never cool.

* Certain principles of design CAN be picked up online (that's what this thread is for). So, try to use them to suit the terrain and the riders. Things like rhythm spacing, keeping gap lengths mostly consistent, picking berm appropriate berm radius, using natural landscape contours, making a loop that returns to the beginning versus a one-directional ride then hike back design, etc.

* Your idea of picking spots with a natural "basin" landscape is a good one. It means that you get some gravity to roll into the lines/loops, but there's also a way to turn around and come back.

* There is a pro-level bmx race track within about an hour of you: Music City BMX Association. Some of these riders may be great resources for you. Although, I do agree with you that mtb-bmx trails are something different from bmx race tracks. One way to think about it is that bmx race tracks are high speed pump tracks; at a lot of tracks the novices can't clear the jumps at all, the intermediates maybe clear a few, and only the expert racers clear everything. If you shrink the dimensions, you start to get something that is fun at normal speeds. So, rather than a 16-20 foot table top right off the gate, like at some tracks, you would do a 8 or 10 foot one. Rollers might be spaced at 11-13 peak to peak instead of 16-18'. Berm radius is more like 7-10' instead of 16-20' etc.

* Even within the bmx / mtb-DJ scenes there are some major aesthetic design differences. I've worked on spots that were all about high air and tricks, but I've also worked on spots that are more about flowing fast and low, with only occasional booster jumps. The purpose of the jump matters a lot for how you shape it and space it. Berms are just as important in a good layout--so a straight line of jumps with no turns is not the "state of the art" in 2013.

* Making something "beginner-friendly" is different from designing "for beginners." Most of the spot should be designed for the average bmx / mtb-DJ rider (i.e. can easily jump a typical indoor bike park box jump which means 3'6"-5'6" tall and 8-12 feet of gap) but also in such a way that is beginner friendly (i.e. large tag savers for gap doubles, or jumps filled in as tables or rollable doubles). On the flip side, getting local 'badass' riders can be a bad strategy if they design their own personal dream park instead of designing for average riders.

* You can learn a lot from indoor wood bike parks and outdoor cement skate/bike parks, which will relate to dirt as well. Take a trip to Ray's in Cleveland this winter and visit the mecca that every bike park designer should experience.

* If you're doing this project as a DIY/volunteer effort, then I would suggest building one small section at a time, pack it, shape it, and ride it in until it works well, then move on to the next section. Running a bobcat for a week solid and moving dirt all over the place, then trying to make it work, is a bad approach. Even when you're running a bobcat, it still takes a lot of hands to shape and pack. So, doing, say, a couple of big rollers and one or two tables in one weekend is plenty.

That's all I have for now. You're welcome to post up pictures. Maybe start a new thread for just your spot.

EDIT: in case you missed them earlier in this thread... here are a few videos of my main spot. note: rollers are deliberately mixed in; tables have rounded corners; jumps are spaced big enough to be fun for good riders but are also rollable; berms are worked in; it's roughly rectangular, so you come back to the beginning; there's a natural starting hill.

wcpt random edit, spring 2010
wcpt random edit - spring 2010 on Vimeo

KJ's bday jam
KD's BDJ @ WCPT on Vimeo

wc pville shark tank edit 2009





other spots i've worked on/consulted on/helped at:
twin parks:




allied compound:
RBM Allied Compound Trip on Vimeo
hideout:





EDIT:
Wanna follow up with some posts/reposts of videos of other rad spots.
1. The Come Up presents: Texas Toast Jam 2012. The main things to observe here: a) roll-in from an elevation, in this case a railroad car; b) interesting mix of ramps and dirt--guess what?! bike parks don't have to be all one or the other !; c) mix of long-and-low as well as boosters, note the jump after the quarter pipe is a long and low d) interesting berm wall. note how it's a 90 degree curve to flat wall to 90.
The Come Up presents: Texas Toast Jam 2012 - YouTube

2. New York Trails 2012. Note rollers and berms mixed into the lines. Note the "long and low" set up jumps for steeper sets. 
New York Trails - BMX Videos - Extreme.com - Gives you the best high quality extreme sports video and all the latest news and events from the world of action sports.

3. BMX-race-track style pump track. Kyle Bennet. "Kyle Bennett riding the pump track." One thing to note here is that the rollers on bmx race tracks are often pretty peaky, which requires manualing skill to get through at speed. A full bike/both tire pump on rollers requires flatter, less peaky rollers.
Kyle Bennett riding the pump track - YouTube

4. "Lars Shreds the Double On Unemployment Line" by Transition Bikes. The reason I include this one is to remind everyone that mtbmx pump/jump trails can be in the woods just like regular xc trails. For some reason there is always somebody who thinks you need a big open field for dirt jumps. True, it's easier to move heavy equipment there, but, in the long run, it's not as fun to hang out in a field, with no trees, shade, and too much sun and wind to beat down on the jumps/track. If you can build a pump-jump TRAIL as a part of a regular trail system, that should be the primary goal. The only drawback to one directional trail is there is no particular "hang out" spot. A basin or rectangular/loop design does create a spot where people can hang out. But still, it's better in the trees and part of nature, than in a field, if you can help it.
Lars Shreds the Double On Unemployment Line on Vimeo


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Thanks CMC! I've got a former BMX rider, and a Jump rider involved. The budget is limited, so I doubt we'll get professional help, and the only reason I'm trying to sort out anything about these tracks to build them is because the city hired me for the XC trail project, so I'm insured to run the equipment they're providing. Since I can't really hand it off, I'm doing exactly what I did when I started building MTB trail years ago, and looking for as much input as I can get before I start making mistakes of my own, in hopes that other people's experience may prevent a few mistakes on my part.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Sounds like a good project. Don't get frustrated as there will be a lot of trials and errors, mods and corrections to your pump track and jumps, especially if you have never built one. 
It is a great idea to get other riders involved but still don't think you have to get it right the first time. It wont happen. 

If you have equipement that you are renting so you can use as needed, I agree 100% with CMC build it one jump at a time, get it dialed. It will help you gauge your speed and get it closer to perfect to begin with. Also tree coverage is awesome for protection from the elements and blocking the wind. Out in a field, even on a sunny day the wind can dang near shut down jumps. 

ON pump tracks I always recommend building the berms right. I think you could totally knock out a pump track in a weekend, at least you have the dirt in the right spot. It is typically just tweaking the spacing and how peaky the rollers are from that point. As for radius, it depends on where you measure (outside radius, inside radius, riding arc? either way be consistent use a tap/string and paint ) , what size bikes are riding it and how much speed you have. less than 10ft (riding arc) on a full 180 on a 26 inch bike with some speed starts to feel really tight, not so bad on a 20inch.... 

good luck, keep us posted


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Cotharyus said:


> Thanks CMC! I've got a former BMX rider, and a Jump rider involved. The budget is limited, so I doubt we'll get professional help. . . . .


Awesome! You can get a lot of great work done with a crew of dedicated rider-diggers. :thumbsup:

Check out Duthie Hill, WA, for ideas about mixing in natural lumber on freeride-ish features, if y'all will be allowed to do that.

Rather than thinking of 'pump track over here, jumps over there..." imagine ways all of it can be integrated. People love trails that can mix in everything--pump, jump, drops, slant-walls, etc. etc.

Duthie Hill, WA:


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Nice pictures! I haven't decided yet what we'll actually built of lumber vs dirt, but the city has pretty much given us a free hand to do whatever we can make work - it isn't a blank check, but it is a blank slate.

We'll certainly be keeping most of the tree cover, but I'll get more into that soon enough. I will get some images together, topo stuff, and post it up in a separate thread. The biggest thing I'm after is logical lines to build on. Like I said, once a clear an area, I'll move the dirt as many times as I have to in order to get it right, but I don't want to clear areas for runs that we'll shut down later.

It's really inspiring to see what you guys have built or ridden, and hear what goes into some of these tracks. Like I said, I've ridden a few, but as a single track builder, it never occurred to me that someone would ask me to build one, so now I'm having to get my head around this too. Thanks again guys.


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## AlexFowler (Mar 20, 2013)

ActionSportsConstruction.com has lots of info about pump tracks and pump track construction.


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## Markhpnc (May 5, 2011)

This thread is pure GOLD! Just wanna say THANKS to all those contributing!


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

*Bmx flavor boost*



AlexFowler said:


> ActionSportsConstruction.com has lots of info about pump tracks and pump track construction.


I like the Bmx influence. Bmx adds speed and bigger air. Both of these are good things


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## rottendan (Dec 17, 2008)

first off, thanks to everyone that contributed to this thread:thumbsup:
just wanted to post a couple of pics of the finished project. here it is 140 yds of imported dirt plus some stuff we scraped up here. it's 70'x55' and has 6 berms, 4-90 degree and 2-180's. 20 rollers all spaced at 12' with 2 transfer lines. 
a few things i learned during the build
1.machines rule! 
2.water is so important
3.plan for drainage
4.it's never done


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

DAAAAANG! that is sexy! I sure how you can keep it that sexy! looks like a fun track! enjoy it!


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## rottendan (Dec 17, 2008)

cglasford said:


> DAAAAANG! that is sexy! I sure how you can keep it that sexy! looks like a fun track! enjoy it!


Thanks man, it'nothing compared to the massive project you pulled off, very cool. I took those pics right after a grooming so, it was all fancy looking. I love the look of freshly swept and watered dirt and I also use the word sexy to describe dirt


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks, but it wasn't just me it took a group of solid riders to do it and we aren't done

but yes that is sexy... i love when the jumps and pump tracks are just freshly broomed and groomed up... we are probably going to use Dust Fighter soil stabilizer this year to minimize the work needed for maintenance!


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## YRG (Feb 26, 2012)

*Would like feedback on designs*

First off rottendan, that is some beautiful work! Very nice.

I have a space in a bike park that is set aside for a pump track. It is about 110ft x 110ft and will be built this spring. I have been working on some design ideas and am hoping for any type of constructive feedback. I made some drag and drop features in a drawing program. The key explains what they are about (except for the regular rectangles which are starting platforms and roll ins). 
I would love to incorporate jumps into the design, but I don't think I can get them approved by the powers that be.
It would be appreciated if anyone can point out potential problems or improvements.

Thanks in advance







Key








First Design, pretty basic








Second adds 2 Rocks and angled rollers








3rd has many corner to corner berms








This is my favorite so far. 1 rock (boss wants rocks) and QP is a 1/4 pipe

Below are some attachments I couldn't delete


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## rottendan (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks YRG! I like the 3rd one also, the qp is a great idea for line reversal. Like a air to transfer, very cool. Jumps mixed in are cool but, once your track gets dialed in you'll find spots that you can jump. Roller to roller, berm to roller, roller to berm etc.etc. Have fun with it!


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## AlexFowler (Mar 20, 2013)

Action Sports Construction offers full service pump track, dirt jump and bike park construction. Visit ActionSportsConstruction.com for more info!


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

OK, I have my local Recreation Commision interested in stsrting with a pump track in the local park and then possibly expanding. I remember reading that there was some National Orgs that could help out with the planning and with the other town councils. Any help would be appreciated.

-Kevin


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

National organizations? you mean IMBA - The international mountain bike association? www.imba.com

Do you have a local mountain bike club or IMBA chapter? or local BMX track or club?

Other than that you will be contacting a contractor and paying them to design and build your pump tracks.

you could have your city parks people contact other city parks people that have bike parks in their community if they have specific city or operation questions....

where are you located?


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

IMBA is what I was remembering. This will be a volunteer effort for now. We are in Newton NH.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Right on... I would contact your local chapter if you have one... doesn't look like you have a regional rep at this time but maybe try this guy

Frank Maguire, Mid-Atlantic Regional Director, [email protected]

good luck!

Have you ever built a pump track?

If you have never built one be ready for lots of building and rebuilding, trial by error... you can do lots of research and watch videos... ect... even buy this e-book
Lee Likes Bikes

but nothing beats first hand knowledge, I would also recommend before you build I would go ride as many pump tracks as you can before you start

this might be interesting 
Lee Likes Bikes


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

Thanks, I am just getting back into biking after a long lay off. I am now motivated byt the fact that programs for the kids in town just got defeated in the local elections as the majority of voters who turned out were over 55. 

Thinking what we can do at a lower cost we have a pretty large chunk of land with an existing trail system. Thought is to start with a pump track and then move on from there. I do have to drum up local support as well. 

Just realized there is a Southern NH Mountain Bike association as well. I will contact them as well as IMBA.

Thanks!


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

awesome! and I don't want to scare or discourage you... go for it for sure but just be aware that a pump track that might take a pro/contractor 2-5 days to build and be dialed might take a group of volunteers that have never built one all summer to get it built and dialed in... but that is part of the fun!


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

I am aware. I have plenty of access to machines and operators. Thanks for the heads up though, my hope is that we can get something started that will thrive and grow through a community effort.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

right on good luck! that is how both of these projects started for me

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cottage-Grove-Bike-Park/596908407004866

https://www.facebook.com/EaganBikePark


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

Would you mind if I used your Cottage Grove video to present the idea to the town?


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

no problem


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## PhilKmetz (Mar 28, 2014)

Hey, I've been doing a mini video series on our Pumptrack, thought I'd post it here in case anybody is interested in following along. I've posted part 1 and part 2 up, and will hopefully have part 3 up next week. Feel free to leave your questions and comments bellow =]

Here's part 1:


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Good video Phil. Despite the collective silence, I'm interested. Lots to learn and things like this help. Let's see part deux!


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

Good video. I am currently working with my town to make something similar in the town woods. What is the rough elevation change on this set up? Do you have any videos about its construction?


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## PhilKmetz (Mar 28, 2014)

Carl Mega said:


> Good video Phil. Despite the collective silence, I'm interested. Lots to learn and things like this help. Let's see part deux!


Your request granted - Part 2 linked below. Part 3 is in the process of being edited.

And thank you. I tried to do a video like this in the years past, but my editing skills lead to a mediocre video and being uncomfortable in from of a camera didn't help.


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## PhilKmetz (Mar 28, 2014)

lappedrider said:


> Good video. I am currently working with my town to make something similar in the town woods. What is the rough elevation change on this set up? Do you have any videos about its construction?


Awesome man! Good on you for being so proactive. I've talked to my town about building one but it never materialized, though I'm still hoping that changes.

The elevation change is about 2-4 Feet from the base of the upper lines to the base of the lower lines. Our start "gate" is about 5-6 feet higher than the base of the of the lower lines. Having an elevated starting point to gain speed (where you can sit around and rest in between laps) makes a huge difference.

I wish, but I didn't know how to use a camera very well when we first started building so I don't have anything from then.


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

PhilKmetz said:


> Awesome man! Good on you for being so proactive. I've talked to my town about building one but it never materialized, though I'm still hoping that changes.
> 
> The elevation change is about 2-4 Feet from the base of the upper lines to the base of the lower lines. Our start "gate" is about 5-6 feet higher than the base of the of the lower lines. Having an elevated starting point to gain speed (where you can sit around and rest in between laps) makes a huge difference.
> 
> I wish, but I didn't know how to use a camera very well when we first started building so I don't have anything from then.


Cool, I checked out some of your other videos and it looks perfect. Almost identical to the land we are looking at. 200 laps was crazy BTW!


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## PhilKmetz (Mar 28, 2014)

lappedrider said:


> Cool, I checked out some of your other videos and it looks perfect. Almost identical to the land we are looking at. 200 laps was crazy BTW!


Haha yeah, that was a rather boring day and came as a spur of the moment challenge.

here's the general process I used:


mentally outline rough course plan.
Remove logs and twigs. 
Remove or cut out small/medium dead trees
Rake out the footprint of the course.
Identify the constraints (big stumps, unmovable rocks)
Mentally adjust course plan.

There is one thing that it's important to remember at first: A bike can't turn as tight as we like to think when we are on our feet. It's better to build turns less sharp than too sharp.

Next assuming you're importing dirt, and have the footprint mostly outlined. 

Remove the organic top soil around the whole course.
Remove any small stumps/rocks around the whole course
Build the base of the course build the foundation.
Start building features.

The foundation is an initial layer of dirt that will create the foot print for the course. It should be smooth and pretty level. Small gradual changes in elevation are fine. Also, level out any off camber sections.

From there you should already be feeling really good about how things are shaping up. The first thing I initially built on our course was the first berm. It just gave me a reference point and as to where I should build the features leading into and our of it.

I highly recommend riding the course as you go, and building one feature at a time that way you can get a sense of if things are working or not. If you notice that you are still turning when you're past the berm, add a little bit of a camber to features and base directly after the berm (think of a nascar track).

I'm not sure if any of this helps, but these are just some of the things that popped into my head as I tried to think back.

Good luck!


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## lappedrider (Mar 12, 2014)

Everything helps! I have not even riden a pump track. I need to find some spots to try out.


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## PhilKmetz (Mar 28, 2014)

Busy week, we moved a lot of the big rocks at the start of the course and really cleaned it up. We also worked on polishing up the berm though still have a lot more work ahead of us.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

lappedrider said:


> Everything helps! I have not even riden a pump track. I need to find some spots to try out.


Definitely do a bunch of riding on differnt pumptracks, BMX tracks, skateparks, DJ spots, etc BEFORE starting to build so you have an idea what works, as in, what can be pumped and what can't. It's easy to build something that can be ridden on a bike, but a whole lot harder to build something that's fun to ride on a bike, without pedalling, in both directions.

The guy that's helping me most with the PT I'm working on has tons of experience building and riding MTB trails, but pretty much none with park/pumptrack type stuff, so whenever he builds something on his own, we usually just have to immediately scratch it, as the lines and radii and just overall approach to building are so different than regular trail building.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

I personally like to build the berms first when building a pump track, I've found it helps me to lay our the rollers appropriately and kind of pins the track in place but I build all of mine out of imported dirt. Now if I'm building DJ trails i build jumps one at a time as the speed coming off the landing will dictate how you construct the next jump.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

A little pipe dream me and another old guy have been eyeing for ages on town recreation land has really started coming together the past few weeks. Town hooked us up with dirt, a really cool spot, and tools. Proximity to a really sweet local XC trail we built seems to be helping out to get some more interest (and hopefully more people to dig).

The area had been used to dig fill from in the past, so there's some really really cool natural features that just need a whole bunch of dirt on them to be fun as hell. It's been mostly just two of us with hand tools, so it's kinda slow going, but been having a good time with it. My kid is a rider, and we're always travelling to skateparks and jumps, so it'll be great to have something in the neighborhood.

We've got a continuously pump-able loop now with a number of line choices and direction changes developing. Did I mention there's nothing better than playing with big piles of nice dirt?


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

sounds great... your pictures dont work... not sure if its my computer or your links


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## si618 (Apr 10, 2012)

cglasford said:


> sounds great... your pictures dont work... not sure if its my computer or your links


Agreed. The site the images are linked to require an account and that you're logged in:
http://www.slapheadmofo.com/forum/download/file.php?id=9982&mode=view
I get error message: "You are not authorised to download this attachment."


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Sorry - pics should be fixed.

They're from a couple days ago. Here are a few progress shots.

We've thrown around about 45 yards of dirt so far (though we did get most of one berm done in late fall before winter set in) and have 30 more to go before we burn through our first allotment thanks to the rec area. Sure is a lot easier than mining it, specially around here.

This was about 5 weeks ago.



















3 weeks back...




























2...(my 10 y/o is the official test ripper)




























Last week..(things were getting a little dry, but we got some needed rain since).


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

our park is coming together nicely this year. The pump tracks are dialed and the 4x course is starting to come together! Grand opening 6/26....

here is a picture... I'll get more up soon


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Damn - that is major stuff! Nice!

Ours is starting to ride okay - kid was tired and 'taking it slow and low' on his 18", but I I'm pretty happy so far with the progress. Can't wait to start incorporating the bigger lines.


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Yeah we are trying to go big time. That top picture is the blue line of the 4 x course and the bottom is our beginner pump track. We use machines to do 84% of the work but hand finish.


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## lasers (Jul 16, 2011)

*Port Kells Pump Track Facelift!*

Hello everyone!

I've followed this thread for a while and there are lots of good tips that I've used in the design and rebuild.

In Surrey BC, I'm a member of SORCE (a mountain bike advocacy group) and we put a massive dig day in at one of our parks (Port Kells). The whole track needed to be rebuilt and now the outer line is complete and just in need of a ride and tweak (it appears the doubles may be a bit short upon ride one.

Have a look, and I'll post some more once our inner redirection lines are done. The track is an oval as that's what we had to work with given what the city was allowing.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Progress...finally got to the point where it's really starting to be fun to ride. See how many line options you can spot...goal is to make everything rideable from most directions. Now that we've got a decent bit of pump-able stuff established, we can get a better idea how to incorporate some of the bigger natural features on the perimeters into the flow. If got 100's of feet of 'natural' walls around the area, with a good portion getting to full vert and 8' + high. Hoping to do some pretty cool dirt quarters and downright huge berms, etc. I need a dirt cannon.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Finally finished up (for now) on the 'hood track. Time to put down the shovel for the summer, at least as far as major work goes. I've got well over 200 hours in since the snow melted, and I've grown to hate my tamper (though I still like shovels). We spread the last of 80 yards of dirt this past weekend and got things into good enough shape to go into 'tweaking and maintenance' mode for awhile - just in time for the hot weather and mosquitoes to make their appearances. Pretty happy with how it came out and hoping to do some major expansion this fall and next spring. Kids are digging it!




























Me - way outta juice after a full day (and busy week) of digging...

MVI 3361 - YouTube

Donald - the Man of a Million Lines (he's 6-5 for perspective)

MVI 3354 - YouTube

The kid on his 18"

MVI 3353 - YouTube


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

That looks like a sick pump track! great work guys!

We finally go the Cottage Grove bike park open for the season... we had almost 30 inches of rain in April through June when we average about 12 so lots of rain! 
https://www.facebook.com/cottagegrovebp

but check out the video


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Wow man - that is ridiculously cool. I'd love to be able to do something like that at some point in the future. Now I'm gonna have to go check out the history of the whole effort. Congrats, you guys rule!


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks its a cool park and a game changer for our region. The park isn't finished. We are building some DJ's this year with the bell built grant as well as a tot track. There maybe other additions as money comes to us. They park is volunteer built and maintained and donation funded... your project is rad too! Keep up the good work!


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## inkaholic (Jul 28, 2009)

Nice work Chance! The park looks great and I see lots of smiles in that vid. 

Ink


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## PhilKmetz (Mar 28, 2014)

*Finally Ridable*

After finishing up the pump track restoration project, I set out to film a fun video in which I try to capture all the diverse line choices that our pump has to offer.


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## Mark E (Feb 7, 2006)

Park riders and DJ fans might be interested in a new IMBA book about purpose-built mountain bike facilities. It offers 178 information-packed pages, with essays from more than two dozen expert contributors, and is loaded with 116 full-color photos, plus real-world bike park schematics, graphs, charts, and much more.

https://www.imba.com/catalog/book-bike-parks-imbas-guide-new-school-trails


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## cglasford (Sep 26, 2011)

Nice! been waiting for this to come out to give it to my land manager!


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## ccarsten (Jun 1, 2009)

cmc4130 said:


> When you say "outer diameter," are you referring to the widest area that there will be any dirt (including the backside of the berm) or are you referring to the top edge of the riding surface (which would be equivalent to the coping in a skate bowl) ?
> 
> Depending on how steep you slant the backside of the berm, the bottom of the backside of the berm could be another 2'6" (like in this picture) or more further out.
> 
> ...


Hey Cullen - I actually got to ride that 38" radius berm at the Fix some years back. It was only about 18" tall, too, so it was crazy ass technical. Took me a while to actually be able to hit it, and was fun once learned, but would probably never build a pump track with a turn that tight.


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## Peanut Gallery (Apr 11, 2015)

CMC are you a part of Freeride 512? I've been following your post a multiple forums and really value your post.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Started in 2008 and still relevant! Lots of great info here, worth a bump I think.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

This is for Kevin who said he has 100 foot long, narrow backyard, with a downgradient. I wasn't sure what kind of entry room he had (for pedaling along the side of the house) or if he'd be able to build a roll-in... But, it's just a rough idea of what fits in 100 feet. I also suggested 4 foot tall tables with 8 foot gap because it's mainly for his boy. I think 8 feet is very doable for a kid to clear, but it's also fun for adult riders, and there is room left to expand them to be 10 feet of gap. A 10 foot radius 180 berm will be somewhat technical, but it won't be overly tight. It'll be whippy enough to carry speed to go back upgradient. If it was a monster 15-20 foot radius turn, you wouldn't be left with much momentum to go back upgradient, unless you cranked around it, BMX race track style.


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## 69tr6r (Mar 27, 2007)

I figured I would add to the thread and show what we've been up to. I have an L-shaped yard that is very flat, but not very large. I had 22yds of fill delivered, we used it up really quick. I'm going to have another 16 yds delivered and see if we can make the track bigger/faster. Right now it is very hard to make it around the track without pedaling. We have a few issues that definitely need improvement, and fixing those will help with the speed, but in reality we just need to make everything taller, especially the rollers.

We didn't have enough dirt to extend the track all the way to the driveway, but that is on the list of things to do! I wanted to see if I could get something small, and rideable with the dirt I had.


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Great illustration of *parabolic trajectory*.


















(Photographer: Richard Baybutt)


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## Holgerw (Aug 2, 2021)

I read through this discussion, really great information!

I am currently planning a small pumptrack and a small dirt jump line for the kids in our village. Unfortunately we don't have as much space in Germany as you do in the US.

This little skill park should teach kids 10 and up the techniques to ride and jump safely in bigger bike parks.

@cmc4130 posted a lot of information about dirt jump design, spacing and heights, thanks for that.

As I understand it, the distance between the top of the first landing and the lip of the next jump needs to be double to triple the distance between jumps to achieve a rhythmic sequence of jumps. For a series of jumps 10 feet apart, the distance between the landing and the next lip should be 20 to 30 feet. *Does this apply to 27.5 enduros as well? *BMX bikes are not popular in Germany.

In post #78 @cmc4130 posted a drawing with a series of tables. Relative to our area, I think a line with three jumps in a row might fit - a combination of the intermediate line and the More advanced line (last jump as step up).

Regarding the size of the starting hill and the running-in I'm not sure. We have a flat ground, how high does the start hill need to be to master a 10 ft gap (5 ft high). The start hill shouldn't be that high, thus is it possible to use a set of acceleration rollers between the start hill and the first jump?

At the end of the dirt jumps line there should be a row of rollers leading back to the start hill.


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