# MTB Rider Stabbed by Hiker



## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Wow, this is crazy: Mountain Biker Stabbed by Hiker After Right of Way Dispute - Pinkbike



> A mountain biker in Bellingham was stabbed after a right of way dispute on the Stewart Mountain Trail in Bellingham.
> 
> A post on the Whatcom County Sheriff Office Facebook Page reports that deputies were called to a trailhead car park in the 3500 block of Y Road on the afternoon of March 6 after a report of a stabbing with several parties involved.
> 
> ...


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

sounds like a boomer vs boomer incident and neither would get off each others lawn.
just so folks know i aint trying to make light of this. hopefully everyone learns a lesson


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

holy crap. I have a feeling both stories have elements of the truth in them.

I feel like it's most likely that what happened was that the mtn biker announced his desire to ride through, the hikers refused, and the rider decided to ride through anyway.


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

The hiker is gonna rightfully pay a price, but the root of this is two old fools, with the common sense and ego of teenage gang members.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

I saw that article. It sounds to me just like others have said.

Biker likely called out wanting to pass as he was clipped in and trying to “clean” something. Hikers didn’t move, one either touched his bars on accident or grabbed them on purpose, then went down in a tangle. And then the guy he fell on felt it was an attack somehow, and then repeatedly stabbed him.

That sucks, 

What riding area is that parking lot for? I took a quick look at trailforks, and didn’t see anything exactly right there. Although the climb trail for Brown Pow is nearby-ish.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Geez that is nuts. Talk about turning a minor inconvenience into a major issue.

Illegal knife and stabbing someone! That hiker is going to have a bad day I hope.

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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Beware of hikers


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

There is confusion at times between bikes and hikers on who has right of way when it's the biker going uphill. Following most recommendations uphill bikers still don't have right-of-way on multi-use trails. I find downhill hikers not yielding to me on climbs all the time.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

rockman said:


> I find downhill hikers not yielding to me on climbs all the time.


They don't have to. the uphill rider ROW guideline only applies between bikes on multi-use trails. climbing rider has ROW over descending rider. hikers still have ROW over bikers regardless of which direction they're going, unless there are specific rules in place for the specific trail.

with that said, it's simply common courtesy to communicate with other trail users. people who are being reasonable grownups can often find a solution that works out great for all involved regardless of who has the posted right-of-way. that way, everybody can have a nice day on the trails.

I find that I generally get a much better response from other folks on the trail when I use language like "hello" and "excuse me" instead of "on your left" which comes off, IMO, too gruff for polite trail interactions. Save "on your left" for race day. still, it's not 100% reliable. I've still encountered the occasional cranky hiker who refuses to let me pass. I've "yielded" by slowing down and asking to pass in the first place.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Right. My point is that many uphill bikers seem to think they have ROW.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

rockman said:


> Right. My point is that many uphill bikers seem to think they have ROW.


They do here, it's pretty clearly marked "Uphill traffic has the right of way". And yes, that is absolutely intended to mean _all uphill traffic_, not just uphill hikers. Downhill they funnel cyclists and hikers onto different trails.

Totally depends on the trail system.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

rockman said:


> Right. My point is that many uphill bikers seem to think they have ROW.


Everyone always thinks they have the ROW. They're almost always wrong.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

dysfunction said:


> Everyone always thinks they have the ROW. They're almost always wrong.


More important, whoever has the right of way, nobody should be trying to push past or injuring other trail users to enforce it.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Two things stand out to me.

1- The mtb biker fled the scene and only called ER when he was in serious decline.

2- this is the hikers story including his own name.










Sure, I'd flee the scene if I were stabbed, too. But I'd likely be calling the cops asap if I had nothing to worry about.

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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Ogre said:


> More important, whoever has the right of way, nobody should be trying to push past or injuring other trail users to enforce it.


Well duh. But we've become just a completely selfish and self-centered society. So that ship's sailed, I'm afraid.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Yeah, the whole "I own the trail" attitude thing is insane. I hike a lot as well as MTB and it just makes so much more sense to me as a hiker to move off the trail when I encounter a biker. It's way easier for me to step off the trail than for them to stop and move them and the bike off the trail. I'm sure that comes from being an avid MTBer and not just a hiker. When I'm on my bike, I yield to all hikers no matter which way (up or down) I'm going since that the "rule" and I don't want to get stabbed. As my daughter used to say when she was 4 years old when ever we asked he what she would do in any situation... "Be nice". Good advice from a 4 year old.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Two things stand out to me.
> 
> 1- The mtb biker fled the scene and only called ER when he was in serious decline.
> 
> ...


I'm sure the hiker's story isn't the whole truth, either. I'll bet there's plenty of blame to go around for this. I'm sure the rider was probably being a dick. But being a dick doesn't excuse the hiker for stabbing the guy.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Too bad there wasn't video. But obviously, both sides should have acted more like adults.

Reminds me of that video from a few years ago, at an actual downhill park, where some guy ran into a woman that was standing in the middle of the trail on the backside of a jump. Of course, both sides of the story were"it's the other person's fault". You hit me! Why are you standing in the middle of a downhill trail!

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> Two things stand out to me.
> 
> 1- The mtb biker fled the scene and only called ER when he was in serious decline.
> 
> ...


You're kind of assuming the cyclist had a cell phone on him here which isn't necessarily the case.

"The mountain biker called an ambulance later that day with stab wounds and loss of blood."

"Later that day" likely meaning when he got home and realized how bad the cut was.

I'm having trouble with the idea that 4 hikers couldn't manage to deal with 1 older cyclist without resorting to a knife. Is he a retiring MMA fighter? No injuries on the guy who had the knife out? Not even a black eye?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Harold said:


> But being a dick doesn't excuse the hiker for stabbing the guy.


Agreed 100%. The line starts to get blurred if...IF you're attacked unprovoked and the guy won't stop.

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Ogre said:


> I'm having trouble with the idea that 4 hikers couldn't manage to deal with 1 older cyclist without resorting to a knife. Is he a retiring MMA fighter? No injuries on the guy who had the knife out? Not even a black eye?


We're all assuming here. 
I can take 4 old people and a cougar.

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

WHALENARD said:


> We're all assuming here.
> I can take 4 old people and a cougar.


I have no doubts... but wouldn't they need at least a little first aid when you were done with them?

And totally agree about assumptions. I was just pointing out that neither side of this story reads well at face value.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Agreed 100%. The line starts to get blurred if...IF you're attacked unprovoked and the guy won't stop.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


I'm not convinced that the mt biker actually attacked anyone, unless you want to consider riding through the hikers to be an attack. Got tangled up and went down? sure. trapped in his clipless pedals after he went down? I'd totally buy that. I'm also not sure that I buy the hiker's line that they were moving out of the way as fast as they could. if that was true, some simple communication about that fact could have prevented ANY issues. I think best case is that the hikers were slow walking out of the way. entirely possible that they were puffing themselves up to try to force the rider to stop.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Harold said:


> I'm not convinced that the mt biker actually attacked anyone, unless you want to consider riding through the hikers to be an attack. Got tangled up and went down? sure. trapped in his clipless pedals after he went down? I'd totally buy that. I'm also not sure that I buy the hiker's line that they were moving out of the way as fast as they could. if that was true, some simple communication about that fact could have prevented ANY issues.


Could be. The stabbing part is perplexing in that scenario though.

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Ogre said:


> And totally agree about assumptions. I was just pointing out that neither side of this story reads well at face value.


I agree, and we try to read between the lines to make sense of it. Hence those 2 parts standing out to me.

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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> Could be. The stabbing part is perplexing in that scenario though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


so why did that hiker have that particular knife on him? that sort of knife isn't a tool. it's a weapon. I have a feeling that the hiker lost his **** and panicked.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

A pocket knife? 

Other than that, I haven't seen a mention of any others. FWIW, I carry an auto-opening knife. They're legal here, and I carry it for single-handed use. Which is highly useful in the wild.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

I suspect we've all struggled to get untangled from our bikes in the past. I'm just trying to picture some dude grabbing the bars and both of us getting stuck underneath the bike with me on top. Then trying to extract myself from the bike while clipped in with an upset hiker pinned underneath me.

I can imagine a lot of confusion on everyone's part.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

I don't know if there is clear one sided fault, but I'd bet my last dollar that hiker's description is leaving out pertinent details. Reads like sanitized BS. Odds are both sides escalated things but stabbing someone is extremely serious and you better have a plausible & justifiable self-defense angle not just mutual combat.

edit: just googlated the hiker. he's actually a somewhat well known luthier. crazy.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

My cousin has a good friend on the Bellingham PD and inside word is that the biker gave the hiker the stink eye. So pretty much, this is justified.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I think the biggest take-away from this kerfuffle is that none of this would've happened if it wasn't for E-bikes.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Scott O said:


> My cousin has a good friend on the Bellingham PD and inside word is that the biker gave the hiker the stink eye. So pretty much, this is justified.


well that changes things!


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

The switchblade angle is interesting to me. I wonder if the stabber's knife is one of those widely available assisted-opening knives like the Kershaw Speedsafe stuff, rather than a true switchblade.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Well, ya know what you gotta do now...it's the law of the streets. Let me know when it's done.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

phantoj said:


> The switchblade angle is interesting to me. I wonder if the stabber's knife is one of those widely available assisted-opening knives like the Kershaw Speedsafe stuff, rather than a true switchblade.


Are auto-openers legal in WA? They are in AZ.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

One of my other hobbies in the past has been knives (kitchen, and camping mostly, but also some pocket knives). So I wondered about the knife as well.

The terminology about the knife was kind of vague. They did call it a "spring knife". But that can mean lots of things (both what people perceive them to be called, and what the legal terms mean).

From a "users perception standpoint" it can mean knives using mechanisms like the one in the Kershaw "Speedsafe" system. But legally (again, afaik/remember), they aren't considered a "spring" knife, as they use a torsion bar, and not a spring. They open the blade in the same way normal folding knife does (folding out and open), and are activated in the same manner as a folding knife. And AFAIK, those are legal almost everywhere in the US, including in Washington state (at least they are sold in the walmarts here last I checked/noticed).

"Switchblades" are illegal in many places, and use a button and a spring, and usually pop the blade straight out of the end of the handle, which is usually considered more dangerous (and why they are illegal). And according to WA state law, a "spring knife" is illegal at the state level, so they are illegal here.

But I wouldn't put it past a PO to call a speedsafe knife a "spring knife" and use it as a basis for arrest, especially if the knife was used in a stabbing.

Clear as mud right?


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

When I bike, I always ask if it's ok to pass, never assuming hiker will get out of my way. I'll ask early and stop if needed to give them time . When I hike, I expect the same. If I hear "On your left" or "Bike", I'll just stand there and give a look that says "Did I hear a please?". The presumption of many riders that hikers are expected to jump out of their way is not acceptable.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

sorry but biker was wrong. bikes YIELD to foot traffic and horse traffic, period.

of course stabbing is wrong, but the biker here was a D*K


I just went to the stabbers web site and it doesn't say anything about his tendency to get stabby.....


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## ExhaustedDog (Jan 5, 2021)

EDIT: This whole situation: Beta male pissing contest.

A complete unraveling of trail etiquette turned lizard brain. Local multi-use trails typically have signage that basically puts bikes at the bottom of the pecking order in terms of ROW.

I struggle when people get so worked up and entitled in multi-use outdoor spaces and are completely ignorant to LNT and trail etiquette. It's there for everyone, know the rules and abide by them. I do not condone the stabbing, but the biker choosing to get tangled up with foot traffic when denied space and access to pass is completely on him. He would have also known the hikers were uncooperative had he tactfully engaged in a verbal exchange with them earlier.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

ocnLogan said:


> Clear as mud right?


This is why I tend to use 'auto-opening' or 'assisted-opening' when referring to either.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

I always forget that miserable, unhappy people sometimes end up outside doing fun things. I had a guy square up to me like he wanted to fight on the trails once, and the only reason was because I hollered ahead to let him know I was coming. He stopped and was clearly pissed, turned around and squared up directly in the middle of the trail. I stopped and just stared at him, confused. He gave me the "whaddya gonna do bro" shoulder shrug, so I just went wide around him. 

People are weird. Kind of unsettling that these situations can devolve into someone getting hurt.


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## infinityzak (Jan 18, 2007)

There is always 3 sides to every story. In this case there is the hikers side, the riders side and then there is the truth (usually somewhere in the middle). Its human nature to sway your own story toward your own side.

This is two people unwilling to compromise.


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## 772268 (Jun 8, 2014)

Battery said:


> Wow, this is crazy: Mountain Biker Stabbed by Hiker After Right of Way Dispute - Pinkbike


Who cares.


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Perhaps the multiple use guidelines need modification? Just kidding


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

WHALENARD said:


> We're all assuming here.
> I can take 4 old people and a cougar.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Ha haa!


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## Halfabrain (Jun 5, 2014)

rockman said:


> Perhaps the multiple use guidelines need modification? Just kidding


Kidding aside and I hate to throw the wrench in but we need one more on this grid (and not because I'm anti-'E'): E-bikes should yield to everyone (that includes uphill!) I'm glad to let an e-bike pass me in an appropriate spot, but there is no way in hell I'm stopping on an uphill singletrack to let an e-bike pass....they can wait until there is a proper opening in the trail that allows for passing!


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## rockman (Jun 18, 2004)

Halfabrain said:


> Kidding aside and I hate to throw the wrench in but we need one more on this grid (and not because I'm anti-'E'): E-bikes should yield to everyone (that includes uphill!) I'm glad to let an e-bike pass me in an appropriate spot, but there is no way in hell I'm stopping on an uphill singletrack to let an e-bike pass....they can wait until there is a proper opening in the trail that allows for passing!


Yeah but the hiker on the sign has a knife. What should the ebiker have?


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## 3blackbikes (May 4, 2011)

I'd like to hear what the hiker's "companions" saw.

Both the knife wielder and the mtb'er sound like they were acting like self-righteous arse-twads and karma got both of them. 

Just be nice and keep to yourself. And pay attention so you can get out of the darn way.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

rockman said:


> Perhaps the multiple use guidelines need modification? Just kidding


I mentioned this above, but not all trail systems use that sign or those guidelines. We have a local trail where the guideline is simply: _Uphill traffic has right of way_.

Regardless this is a distraction. Violating trail guidelines shouldn't lead to knifing.

God Stabit I'm clueless.









A+


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

rockman said:


> Perhaps the multiple use guidelines need modification? Just kidding
> View attachment 1922851


Today's Internet Winner Right There: ☝


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

rockman said:


> Yeah but the hiker on the sign has a knife. What should the ebiker have?


Are we in Arizona for the purposes of this discussion?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

rockman said:


> Perhaps the multiple use guidelines need modification? Just kidding
> View attachment 1922851


I reckon these would make a mint in Bellingham right about now...

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

dysfunction said:


> Everyone always thinks they have the ROW. They're almost always wrong.


That idea takes us back to the boomer v. boomer theorem.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Nat said:


> That idea takes us back to the boomer v. boomer theorem.


I'm a Gen-Xer.. so I'm blaming the boomer.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> What riding area is that parking lot for? I took a quick look at trailforks, and didn't see anything exactly right there. Although the climb trail for Brown Pow is nearby-ish.


It does appear to be the climbing trail to Brown Pow.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

rockman said:


> Perhaps the multiple use guidelines need modification? Just kidding
> View attachment 1922851


That is amazing. thank you.

When I read this part:


> The Sheriff's report contains two separate versions of what happened next, one from the 69-year-old hiker named Dake Traphagen and the other from the unnamed 66-year-old mountain biker.


I did a eye roll so hard it gave me a headache.... Seriously these guys are old enough to know better. they are all idiots. The idea that a group of 4 felt threatened by a single person is preposterous.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

It wouldn't surprise me if the biker instigated it, but I highly doubt that he presented so much of a threat to the hiker that he should be stabbed.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

Skrool said:


> Who cares.


obviously not you.



rockman said:


> Yeah but the hiker on the sign has a knife. What should the ebiker have?


the ebiker can yank ebikes battery out of said ebike's compartment and hit people over the head with it.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Curveball said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if the biker instigated it, but I highly doubt that he presented so much of a threat to the hiker that he should be stabbed.


I'm definitely not taking sides in this argument but I do agree with aggressively defending yourself.

IF, and I definitely mean IF, the biker had gotten off of his bike and taken the hiker to the ground, imo the hiker can at that point use any means necessary to defend himself. I won't judge him for that.

I absolutely will not begrudge someone to make a split second decision on how they should defend themselves. It's always so easy to armchair quarterback these scenarios. In the moment, I'm guessing it was scary and dangerous.

But, like I said...I'm taking no sides as it seems the real story has yet to be told.

I personally wouldn't get myself into a pissing match with a fellow trail user like that...BUT, if someone ever attacked me and took me to the ground, I will do EVERYTHING I can to make sure they never get up again.

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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm not so sure the hiker overreacted. I believe he was just making sure the biker got the point


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## stillkeen (Mar 22, 2005)

Biker probably should have just got off if he could stop on the climb (there are totally times on climbs though when you cannot stop without falling), but wow, some old dude's carrying an illegal knife and is willing to plunge it into the rider ... that is crazy! Seriously, what would it take for a sane person to stab another person? Having someone fall on top of me would not qualify for that, and I don't even have a knife when I hike, and if I do, it's in the cooking setup deep in my pack and isn't an illegal knife, and has just a 1.5" blade. The hiker is really lucky that the biker didn't end up even worse off.

I hope this doesnt end with a warning to both parties. As that'll embolden people to break out the knives for what is a stupid confrontation. I do not want the hiker walking around with that knife and knowing he can use it and just say he was doing so in self defense.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Silentfoe said:


> I'm definitely not taking sides in this argument but I do agree with aggressively defending yourself.
> 
> IF, and I definitely mean IF, the biker had gotten off of his bike and taken the hiker to the ground, imo the hiker can at that point use any means necessary to defend himself. I won't judge him for that.
> 
> ...


Yeah, it's a very hard situation to judge with so little facts available.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

stillkeen said:


> Biker probably should have just got off if he could stop on the climb (there are totally times on climbs though when you cannot stop without falling), but wow, some old dude's carrying an illegal knife and is willing to plunge it into the rider ... that is crazy! Seriously, what would it take for a sane person to stab another person? Having someone fall on top of me would not qualify for that, and I don't even have a knife when I hike, and if I do, it's in the cooking setup deep in my pack and isn't an illegal knife, and has just a 1.5" blade. The hiker is really lucky that the biker didn't end up even worse off.
> 
> I hope this doesnt end with a warning to both parties. As that'll embolden people to break out the knives for what is a stupid confrontation. I do not want the hiker walking around with that knife and knowing he can use it and just say he was doing so in self defense.


It's possible that the biker went into a crazy rage and the defense was acceptable. We don't really know enough about the circumstances.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Silentfoe said:


> But, like I said...I'm taking no sides as it seems the real story has yet to be told.


Definitely true.

But I'm gonna hedge my bets on both guys being amped up over the verbal portion at the start of the altercation. I'm going to bet that the rider clipped a handlebar on one of the hikers, and I HIGHLY doubt that the rider intended to do that because any rider with a quarter of a brain knows that's a recipe to go down (wouldn't be surprised if one of the hikers intentionally obstructed just enough to clip the rider's handlebar when the rider tried to assert his position on the trail), and the rider fell on the hiker in question and was pinned by his bike, unable to get up. being amped up, my bet is on the hiker overreacting on the response and getting stabby.

it doesn't really make much sense for the solo rider to be 100% to blame for getting physical against 4 hikers. those are really bad odds, especially for someone on a bike.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

nhodge said:


> I'm not so sure the hiker overreacted. I believe he was just making sure the biker got the point


"i'm just gonna stab you to make sure you get the point.[paraphrasing]"
yeah, sounds justified to me
edit: just got the joke. man i was blonde that time lol


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## matadorCE (Jun 26, 2013)

What's the sound of two 'Don't Thread on Me' idiots coming together?: oww, you're stabbing me!


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

matadorCE said:


> What's the sound of two 'Don't Tread on Me' idiots coming together?: oww, you're stabbing me!


fify


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## Moosedriver (Jan 19, 2021)

Reading through this thread surprises me that so many mountain bikers go straight to blaming the mountain biker for getting stabbed and almost dying. He went to the hospital and was airlifted to Harborview hospital, the only Level 1 trauma hospital in WA. They wouldn’t have done that if the biker wasn’t at serious risk of dying.
After the event the hiker went on social media to say he was attacked by the biker and to get people to call the park rangers to demand that those trails are closed to bikers.
After a two week investigation, in which the police interviewed all parties, along with a third-party witness, the police charged the hiker with first degree assault and having an illegal knife. A first degree assault charge is a felony and can result in a life sentence.
What was the biker charged with? Nothing.
Yep, sounds like the police thought it was the biker’s fault and he got what he deserved as well.


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## ExhaustedDog (Jan 5, 2021)

Welp. Whilst riding today the only issue I had was some dude on a fat tire hard tail (at Crockett Regional in NorCal...of all places) not wearing a helmet; didn't make space on the trail as I was climbing, so I had to step off and let him pass on a bench singletrack.

You know who didn't give me any issues...all the hikers, who didn't have to step off but did anyway and I was overly thankful and wished them well.

Just goes to show people in a pissy mood or entitled mindset are going to project that into the world. Best thing is to keep on keepin on and find joy in the brief conversations with the people enjoying the outdoor spaces too.


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## ExhaustedDog (Jan 5, 2021)

Moosedriver said:


> Reading through this thread surprises me that so many mountain bikers go straight to blaming the mountain biker for getting stabbed and almost dying.


I don't blame the biker for getting stabbed, I blame the biker for not exercising appropriate trail protocol. However, he wasn't the one who committed felony assault with a deadly weapon. That's 100% on the hiker, who could have just as well handled that situation differently.

Again...beta male pissing contest.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ExhaustedDog said:


> Welp. Whilst riding today the only issue I had was some dude on a fat tire hard tail (at Crockett Regional in NorCal...of all places) not wearing a helmet; didn't make space on the trail as I was climbing, so I had to step off and let him pass on a bench singletrack.


Did you stab him?


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## ExhaustedDog (Jan 5, 2021)

Ogre said:


> Did you stab him?


LOL, no, I just farted in his general direction.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Moosedriver said:


> Yep, sounds like the police thought it was the biker's fault and he got what he deserved as well.


you might not get criminal charges for being an ass, but it doesn't mean you're in the right for that attitude. stabbing someone who's been a jerk definitely crosses the line to criminal behavior, though. I just highly doubt that the hiker stabbed the guy for no reason. not impossible, but I'd believe it highly unlikely.

That's the kind of thing that's not being reported. and it's probably not possible to report it. I wouldn't exactly call the hiker's friends unbiased witnesses, so I expect their reports to be skewed, also. no reports so far of anyone else witnessing this, so I expect a true account will never be known.

we do have an idea about the injuries, though. hiker was treated at the trailhead. rider needed an airlift, so his injuries are pretty serious. whatever the hiker suffered definitely didn't warrant giving the other guy life threatening injuries.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Moosedriver said:


> Reading through this thread surprises me that so many mountain bikers go straight to blaming the mountain biker for getting stabbed and almost dying. He went to the hospital and was airlifted to Harborview hospital, the only Level 1 trauma hospital in WA. They wouldn't have done that if the biker wasn't at serious risk of dying.


I think most people here stopped reading at the part where the it sounds like the guy on the bike tried to force his way through a group of hikers.

I hate the way people think they can read a shitty story like this and get enough of a feel for what actually happened to pass judgement on people one way or the other. Been on the receiving end of that bullshit in the absolute worst possible way.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Many times in life, it's best to walk away. (Doesn't matter who is"right" ).

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

ExhaustedDog said:


> LOL, no, I just farted in his general direction.


That sounds exhausting!

Lol

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## ExhaustedDog (Jan 5, 2021)

Look for me on an upcoming episode of Shark Tank trying to get investment in my bottled dog fart company. Works great in these sorts of situations.


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## Taroroot (Nov 6, 2013)

Well from the hikers post, it sounds like he’s got it in against mountain bikes.

sigh. Amwe going to have to run video cams all the time on trails too now?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Ogre said:


> Did you stab him?


They stabbed him with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

nhodge said:


> I'm not so sure the hiker overreacted. I believe he was just making sure the biker got the point


What you did there...I see it


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

This is the part which smells like pure bullshift to me.

"Traphagen was interviewed at the trailhead and claims that the mountain biker _attacked him with his bike_ after the disagreement and they fell to the ground."

Did he pick up the bike and try to smash him upside the head? I'm not sure about you guys, but bikes are not my first choice weapon. Even the idea that he'd deliberately ram someone with the bike _while climbing up a hill_ is bonkers. The statement makes zero sense. I guess he figured telling the cop "He bumped me with his handlebar so I stabbed him" wouldn't come across quite right.


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

Interesting point to all of this (heh) is that as far as I know, there is no actual, enforceable ‘right’ of way among anyone, I am pretty sure those “biker Yield to horses and hikers” type things are just etiquette suggestions. can anyone clarify?


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## dgilluly (Jun 14, 2019)

ROW can be set as guidelines by various levels within a jurisdiction. But in the end it's a mutual decision that can be modified based on situation.

To be honest, I would rather have ROW going downhill on my bike than going uphill. Because going uphill, now that gives me a reason to take a break from climbing. But again, I can't really compete on Strava, so that might just be me.

Also the hiker's story I can't take seriously because of the end. Like he wants everyone to start tattling to trail advocacy groups and LBS's, like he's trying to get mountain bikers kicked off the trails, like we're always inconsiderate to others or the only ones who are capable of being inconsiderate to others. I have seen hikers be so inconsiderate to show up and hike on MTB-only trail systems, then never yield to bikers in areas where it's outright dangerous for us to pull off of the trails.

One group of hikers showed up to hike on trails during an active race, entered where there wasn't steward coverage, caused a crash, then complained to me as a steward after they realized there was a race going on (even though there were signs all over the parks). But I'm not going to go out of my way to tattle on them to trail advocates and complain to the local shoe stores about them.

Doing so and also pushing others to do so seems to reek of entitlement to me.

I really hope if he succeeds at getting mountain bikers excluded from multi use trails like he wants, that he'll encounter them on the daily on the sidewalk because they don't have anywhere else to ride.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

dgilluly said:


> I really hope if he succeeds at getting mountain bikers excluded from multi use trails like he wants, that he'll encounter them on the daily on the sidewalk because they don't have anywhere else to ride.


This is Bellingham, WA. Not the California Bay Area.

There is _zero_ chance he'll have too much luck getting mountain bikers excluded from much of anything.


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## smoothmoose (Jun 8, 2008)

Sounds like a couple old grumps with lots of ego and not enough therapy. Seriously, hiking or biking are good tools for mental health - but working through your personal issues and general reactivity is something a therapist can help with, but probably still taboo for these grumps.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

rideit said:


> Interesting point to all of this (heh) is that as far as I know, there is no actual, enforceable 'right' of way among anyone, I am pretty sure those "biker Yield to horses and hikers" type things are just etiquette suggestions. can anyone clarify?


My dad did hard time for not yielding the trail once.

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

smoothmoose said:


> Sounds like a couple old grumps with lots of ego and not enough therapy. Seriously, hiking or biking are good tools for mental health - but working through your personal issues and general reactivity is something a therapist can help with, but probably still taboo for these grumps.


Grump #1: Dake Traphagen Luthier: Builder of classical, flamenco, multi string, steel string, and nylon string jazz guitars

$5 says that Grump #2 looks similar.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Can we say prick waving contest??

On another note, where would it have ended if there were concealed carry licenses involved?

In the court of MTBR opinions...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rockman said:


> Yeah but the hiker on the sign has a knife. What should the ebiker have?


Taser


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> My dad did hard time for not yielding the trail once.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Details?


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

nhodge said:


> Details?


The details are as follows:
I made it up.

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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Good to know. I was gonna storm that prison, knife between my teeth


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## shekky (Oct 21, 2011)

i haven't been on MTBR in a while.

this is all i got:


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## GeePhroh (Jan 13, 2004)

So much Boomer-rage!




(Oh yeah, and the story about B-ham is pretty crazy, too.)


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

shekky said:


> i haven't been on MTBR in a while.
> 
> this is all i got:


Looks like they cut the stabby part from that version.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

rideit said:


> Interesting point to all of this (heh) is that as far as I know, there is no actual, enforceable 'right' of way among anyone, I am pretty sure those "biker Yield to horses and hikers" type things are just etiquette suggestions. can anyone clarify?


It isn't just etiquette. All posted signs are a "conditional use" that you agree to when you choose to use the trail. When you ride past that sign, you've agreed to abide by the right of way rules. Anyone who chooses not to abide by a posted sign, is free to turn around.

Trail managers are really just trying to make the trail experience as enjoyable for as many people as possible. So they will always choose to educate first. Enforcement isn't what they want to do. But someone who becomes notorious for flagrantly, habitually, violating trail rules can be asked to leave and not come back. Continuing to come back after being asked to leave, can lead to trespass charges.

Definitely not what trail managers want. But all trail rules are enforceable.


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

r-rocket said:


> Definitely not what trail managers want. But all trail rules are enforceable.


Not every land manager has adopted rules or even posted right of way / etiquette conventions, though. Quite a few have not.


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

evasive said:


> Not every land manager has adopted rules or even posted right of way / etiquette conventions, though. Quite a few have not.


If the land manager hasn't posted it, then it isn't a "conditional use" of that trail and isn't part of the trail rules. See the first line of my post:

"It isn't just etiquette. All posted signs are a "conditional use" that you agree to when you choose to use the trail. "


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

r-rocket said:


> If the land manager hasn't posted it, then it isn't a "conditional use" of that trail and isn't part of the trail rules. See the first line of my post:
> 
> "It isn't just etiquette. All posted signs are a "conditional use" that you agree to when you choose to use the trail. "


Not sure what the relevance of enforceability is when we don't know whether that trail actually had posted anything. A lot of trails in the PNW don't have signs like that. Many are barely signed at all, and usually it varies based on the land manager. Very few places near here have the triangle/ right of way sign. Most places are unsigned. One has a sign saying uphill traffic has the right of way.

I have no idea what Bellignham's trails are like, but its silly to make assumptions based on how your particular local trails are managed because signage and enforcement varies greatly by region.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

If either of these guys had acted like a normal respectable person, this wouldn't have escalated. Just unbelievable.

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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I guess where I am going with this is that I have never, not once, in 35 years of being a trail nerd, heard of anyone receiving a ticket for ‘failure to yield’ on a public (or private?) trail.
let alone convicted of it.
it just seems like a well meaning guideline of expected etiquette, not a law.
kind of irrelevant, but I believe worthy of notice.
have any of you heard of such a thing?
I could see maybe in Marin?


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## shapethings (Feb 17, 2014)

Seems like an allegory of where america is right now: entitled older dudes on a diet of boner pills and testosterone supplements trying to achieve some masculine reawakening but losing the plot along the way.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Madmardigannn said:


> I feel like it's most likely that what happened was that the mtn biker announced his desire to ride through, the hikers refused, and the rider decided to ride through anyway.


Well, aren't you original.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Madmardigannn said:


> I feel like it's most likely that what happened was that the mtn biker announced his desire to ride through, the hikers refused, and the rider decided to ride through anyway.


Now I see what Finch was talking about. Really! Word for word on Harold's post. Lol
Please tell me this was a joke.


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## Brad Pitted (Oct 7, 2018)

Appreciate that link to “Dake’s” website. I wonder how he’ll adjust to prison life.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

BansheeRune said:


> Can we say prick waving contest??
> 
> On another note, where would it have ended if there were concealed carry licenses involved?
> 
> In the court of MTBR opinions...


If concealed carry licenses were involved, both side would have probably been a lot more respectful to each other and there wouldn't had been a conflict


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Bacon Fat said:


> If concealed carry licenses were involved, both side would have probably been a lot more respectful to each other and there wouldn't had been a conflict


Or whoever was faster to the draw would have had the right of way.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Bacon Fat said:


> If concealed carry licenses were involved, both side would have probably been a lot more respectful to each other and there wouldn't had been a conflict


Yes, especially because the way those fine gentlemen displayed how they can deescalate even this coming out of nowhere, very much unavoidable and uttermost stressful situation in an blink of an eye in a very calm and respectful matter.😉🍻


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

shapethings said:


> Seems like an allegory of where america is right now: entitled older dudes on a diet of boner pills and testosterone supplements trying to achieve some masculine reawakening but losing the plot along the way.


Lol!

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Bacon Fat said:


> If concealed carry licenses were involved, both side would have probably been a lot more respectful to each other and there wouldn't had been a conflict


You want these guys out on your trails with guns? You can't be serious.

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## sszaskar (May 11, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> You want these guys out on your trails with guns? You can't be serious.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


You realize there already are people with guns on the trails right?

I always carry a gun when I'm on foot. Sometimes I'll carry a small gun in the bike too, depending on location.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

sszaskar said:


> You realize there already are people with guns on the trails right?
> 
> I always carry a gun when I'm on foot. Sometimes I'll carry a small gun in the bike too, depending on location.





sszaskar said:


> You realize there already are people with guns on the trails right?


I've got nothing against guns. Given the context of this thread it baffles me mountain bikers would use it to encourage more guns in the woods. If you're a responsible gun owner, cool, keep it to yourself.

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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Censorship on display.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Man, how bad is life over there in Bellingham when you need to carry a knife on a cozy group hike?


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

I carry a pocket knife everytime I go hiking with the dog, in Central Florida. Sometimes I'll bring my gun when riding if I'm going out alone for a long ride through some of the WMA's. Rather be prepared than not.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

This all makes people fretting over 50grams hilarious.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

chadbrochills said:


> I carry a pocket knife everytime I go hiking with the dog, in Central Florida. Sometimes I'll bring my gun when riding if I'm going out alone for a long ride through some of the WMA's. Rather be prepared than not.


WMA?


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Crankout said:


> WMA?


Wildlife Management Area


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Wildlife Management Area


In Florida, I'm assuming there's a chance of encountering some dangerous animals.


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## Ft.Rock (May 7, 2020)

I find the line "If you have any negative stories about Mt. bikers on our trails please call the city..." to be telling. This sounds to me more like the culmination of something that has built up over time. Guess it's time to invent a switchblade that can be stored in a handlebar?


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

^^^^ part of the next gen oneup edc tool


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Ft.Rock said:


> I find the line "If you have any negative stories about Mt. bikers on our trails please call the city..." to be telling. This sounds to me more like the culmination of something that has built up over time. Guess it's time to invent a switchblade that can be stored in a handlebar?


It's been more than 10 years since the last rabid hiker attacked a mountain biker under similarly stupid conditions.

I think we can hold off on weaponizing our bikes until the incident frequency breaks 1/ year at least.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Bacon Fat said:


> If concealed carry licenses were involved, both side would have probably been a lot more respectful to each other and there wouldn't had been a conflict


And now we have another gun thread. Should be binned before too long.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And now we have another gun thread. Should be binned before too long.


Isn't that just 'thread entropy'?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dysfunction said:


> Isn't that just 'thread entropy'?


It's looking that way.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

@Crankout Yeah. Wildlife Management Areas. While the chance of encountering something actually dangerous, like a panther or bear, is slim...I'd still rather be prepared if I'm alone. When riding in groups I don't carry my knife or gun, just a multitool lol. I live backed up to a nature preserve so there's all kinds of animals, deer, wild hogs, bobcats, panthers (supposedly, they're pretty rare), turkey's, etc.

I actually saw a bear on Saturday before sunset while out riding alone with the dog. Was on a limerock road coming around a bend and saw a big black blob walking away from us on the road. Stopped because I realized "holy ****, that's a bear!" and it heard us, turned to look at us, then casually walked off the road into the woods. First time ever seeing one and I've been wanting to see one in the wild for a while now. Let's just say after seeing it and realizing it was bigger than I'd imagine one would be, I'll be good for a while. Just Florida black bears which usually aren't aggressive but they will definitely mess you up if they wanted to.


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## drag_slick (Sep 24, 2004)

Looks like the guy's luthier facebook page is getting trolled..... This comment was my favorite "_I love the use of rosewood. Your finishing skills are impeccable. Would you consider making me a knife handle? " _


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And now we have another gun thread. Should be binned before too long.


It's funny that people can discuss assault with a deadly weapon (knife) and it no big deal. But oh no, what if they had a gun, then it would have been bad. The guy had to air lifted to a trauma center. I think bad already happened


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> Isn't that just 'thread entropy'?


This isn't a sewing forum, why are you talking about thread?

Lol

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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Ha. Ha. Ha.

Some of y'all bloviators may need to stab yourselves to feel whole again.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Did anyone else pick this up off his website? Kinda cryptic if you ask me....

*My view*
In this age of digital relationships, digital sound, and immediate gratification, we often lose sight of the hands-on nature of the arts. To me, guitar making is more than technique or science, more than just the finished product. It is an experiential, hands-on relationship one develops over years of trial and error, and comes to life when one develops a deeper insight into the medium with which one is involved. And if you don't agree with me, I will stab you in your stupid ass!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Guess it is habitual, Scott...


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

chadbrochills said:


> @Crankout Yeah. Wildlife Management Areas. While the chance of encountering something actually dangerous, like a panther or bear, is slim...I'd still rather be prepared if I'm alone. When riding in groups I don't carry my knife or gun, just a multitool lol. I live backed up to a nature preserve so there's all kinds of animals, deer, wild hogs, bobcats, panthers (supposedly, they're pretty rare), turkey's, etc.
> 
> I actually saw a bear on Saturday before sunset while out riding alone with the dog. Was on a limerock road coming around a bend and saw a big black blob walking away from us on the road. Stopped because I realized "holy ****, that's a bear!" and it heard us, turned to look at us, then casually walked off the road into the woods. First time ever seeing one and I've been wanting to see one in the wild for a while now. Let's just say after seeing it and realizing it was bigger than I'd imagine one would be, I'll be good for a while. Just Florida black bears which usually aren't aggressive but they will definitely mess you up if they wanted to.


Today I learned that there are Bears and PANTHERS!!!!! in Florida..... What the heck!


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I've had bear and mountain lion encounters often here in the San Bernadino Mountains. They always run away. What doesnt run away are roaming dogs and the homeless that live in the forest. Then theres the meth labs and pot grows. Am I armed? You bet, since i always ride alone


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Luckily that old fugger didn't have a firearm on his person....

There are dumb arses on both sides of the fence.

Where I live hikers/walkers can be dick's though.

One of our more well known gnarly trails, my cohorts and I were rolling down a couple of months back had large branches placed across the trail every 50-60m, in half a doz places.

Thing is, where I live... mtb'ers maintain the trails. Walkers think they own em.

I always pull over when I'm riding with my boys (sons)... teaching moments outweigh need for speed.

When riding solo, I'll make a judgement call... If the track is wide enough, I'll slow down and navigate my way past.

Usually, walkers get out of the way when they hear you barreling down the hill. Makes sense, they'll hear you before you hear them.

Haven't had a hostile run in yet. I've heard one or two mutter something under their breath, I just say 'thanks, have a great walk'  (I frikin h8 walking) and mosey on my merry way.

They're not worth my time.

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## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

Man surreal seeing this. I'm a serious classical guitarist in my other life ( trained but non professional ) and Dake's is a very well known name here in the PNW. His guitars have sold at local shops and played by players at the concert halls. While I don't know him personally and never played his guitars, it's still kind of a shock to see that normally relatively peaceful world have this kind of exposure since I know people that have played his guitars.

I should add, I've had some strange encounters with people that seem to resent mountain bikers no matter how polite you are. Not saying that happened here. It's possible both were a-holes or one. We'll never know I guess. I just know that I'm polite no matter what and any altercation isn't worth it. I can always walk a section if I need to. Most people are pretty nice though.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Yes I've met hikers with the same attitude.

I'll be super friendly anyways, hi how is your day or, enjoying the beautiful weather? Usually makes the grumps look twice.

I'm sure at some point, they had a bad experience with a biker.

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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Ogre said:


> This is the part which smells like pure bullshift to me.
> 
> "Traphagen was interviewed at the trailhead and claims that the mountain biker _attacked him with his bike_ after the disagreement and they fell to the ground."
> 
> Did he pick up the bike and try to smash him upside the head? I'm not sure about you guys, but bikes are not my first choice weapon. Even the idea that he'd deliberately ram someone with the bike _while climbing up a hill_ is bonkers. The statement makes zero sense. I guess he figured telling the cop "He bumped me with his handlebar so I stabbed him" wouldn't come across quite right.


Lol...if I was ever to get into a scuffle...the first thing I'd do is gently lay my bike down...then I would put up my dukes😁 . Last thing I'd do is throw my bike that I put a bunch of money into.


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## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

I hike this area every week. I am also a mtb for many years. However never ride this area just hike with my dogs.
I can tell you that I have seen the largest mt. lion a few years back. Also there is a fenced area were trees are grown for seedlings. I ran into a deer stuck in the fence and 1/2 eaten. Next day the deer carcus was draged into the woods. So I not surprised if someone is carrying protection. I do now CPL.
I have also had a friend run into 2 cougars up on brown pow & surf turf over last few years. That is a few miles away from Stewart Mt.


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way."


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

spaightlabs said:


> "They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way."


Mayor Beetlejuice is proud of their murder rate being on par with Mexico's drug cartel activity.


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

They are probably both old white hatefull mtbr forum curmudgeons!


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

chadbrochills said:


> I carry a pocket knife everytime I go hiking with the dog, in Central Florida. Sometimes I'll bring my gun when riding if I'm going out alone for a long ride through some of the WMA's. Rather be prepared than not.


Orly?

So you must also bring extra water, extra food, first aid, emergency shelter, extra spokes, extra derailleur, hatchet, fire starter, sat phone/msgr, binoculars, fire extinguisher, etc., you know, all the stuff you are far more likely to actually need and would naturally want to "have and not need it"?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Now, we go with no evidence, making judgements to guns and now skin color...
Bases are covered!

Funny how the media claimed the shooter was white in Boulder, hysterical as a matter of fact.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

Mojave G said:


> They are probably both old white hatefull mtbr forum curmudgeons!


Good lort, is that for real? I thought at first it was from a movie.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

Mojave G said:


> They are probably both old white hatefull mtbr forum curmudgeons!


I'm pretty sure there was some vodka involved in this incident...


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

...man, all of this is even more reason why I do more of my riding when it is 32ºF and below...

freezing cold and snow weed out a lot of the riff raff...


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## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

r-rocket said:


> It isn't just etiquette. All posted signs are a "conditional use" that you agree to when you choose to use the trail. When you ride past that sign, you've agreed to abide by the right of way rules. Anyone who chooses not to abide by a posted sign, is free to turn around.
> But all trail rules are enforceable.


Care to post a piece of the USC that makes that applicable nation wide? Or even the state law that makes this applicable in your state?


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## Mojave G (Jan 30, 2015)

Finch Platte said:


> Good lort, is that for real? I thought at first it was from a movie.


 Looks real to me, I just searched for 2 old guys fighting and that's what popped up lol...and vodka yep


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Mojave G said:


> They are probably both old white hatefull mtbr forum curmudgeons!


Lol. That's the most bitchin retirement home in all the land.

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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Orly?
> 
> So you must also bring extra water, extra food, first aid, emergency shelter, extra spokes, extra derailleur, hatchet, fire starter, sat phone/msgr, binoculars, fire extinguisher, etc., you know, all the stuff you are far more likely to actually need and would naturally want to "have and not need it"?


Is it really that weird to you that someone would carry a knife, especially outdoors? It could be a local perception thing, but they seem common to me when hiking/backpacking camping.

Maybe some people think of them as weapons first, but to me, and I'd assume many others, they are a useful multi-purpose tool. I always have one in my biking bag (and hiking, and backpacking, and work bags), and are well worth the 1-4oz penalty of carrying it.

I view them somewhat like rope. Where if you know the right things to do with them, they can be useful in many situations. Including things like helping you make big important things like emergency shelter, splints, all the way down to things as small/trivial as removing splinters or cutting food.

And, as it would happen I do carry a fair percentage of the items you talked about as well when hiking/biking. At least water, food, small first aid kit, another layer, and a fire steel (in addition to the Swiss Army knife). Plus anything more specific to my needs for the specific outing (spoke wrench, derailleur cable, etc).


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> Today I learned that there are Bears and PANTHERS!!!!! in Florida..... What the heck!


Lots of Black Bears in Florida. A small population of the Florida Panthers [a-sub species of the mountain Lion we know out west] live in the Everglades.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Mojave G said:


> They are probably both old white hatefull mtbr forum curmudgeons!


You aren't allowed to say white! I'm so offended!
(Kidding of course)

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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Lots of Black Bears in Florida. A small population of the Florida Panthers [a-sub species of the mountain Lion we know out west] live in the Everglades.


Florida cougars? Tell us more....lol

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Shark said:


> Florida cougars? Tell us more....lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


Well, they hang out in the sewer.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


----------



## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

rebel1916 said:


> Care to post a piece of the USC that makes that applicable nation wide? Or even the state law that makes this applicable in your state?


Sure. Here is the WAC for the State of Washington where this happened. Basically bikers have to yield to hikers, but hikers can't power trip and use that as an excuse to block everybody else.

*WAC 332-52-410*
"
(2) What are the responsibilities of persons operating motorized or nonmotorized vehicles on department-managed roads *and trails*?
(a) Persons operating motorized or nonmotorized vehicles shall:
(i) Use due care and control speed to avoid colliding with any person, animal, motorized or nonmotorized vehicle or other conveyance on or entering the roadway;

*"(3) While operating a motorized or nonmotorized vehicle, who has the right of way? *
(c) Pedestrians.
(i) Persons operating a motorized or nonmotorized vehicle shall yield the right of way to pedestrians.
(ii) Pedestrians must leave the road as soon as possible to allow the vehicle to pass.
"
"
(5) Any violation of this section is a traffic infraction under chapter 46.63 RCW except a violation of subsection (2)(b)(iii) of this section is a misdemeanor.
[Statutory Authority: Chapter 43.30 RCW and RCW 43.12.065. WSR 09-05-034, § 332-52-410, filed 2/11/09, effective 3/14/09.]

*


WAC 332-52-410:


*


----------



## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

r-rocket said:


> ...
> (xiv) Stabbing is permitted only when traveling uphill on a north facing slope.


Too bad. He was almost in the clear.


----------



## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> I hike this area every week. I am also a mtb for many years. However never ride this area just hike with my dogs.
> I can tell you that I have seen the largest mt. lion a few years back. Also there is a fenced area were trees are grown for seedlings. I ran into a deer stuck in the fence and 1/2 eaten. Next day the deer carcus was draged into the woods. So I not surprised if someone is carrying protection. I do now CPL.
> I have also had a friend run into 2 cougars up on brown pow & surf turf over last few years. That is a few miles away from Stewart Mt.


Does that trail allow bikes? Strange it does'nt show up on trailforks.


----------



## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Lol. That's funny. Two grumpy, cranky old men about as stupid as each other.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

ocnLogan said:


> Is it really that weird to you that someone would carry a knife, especially outdoors? It could be a local perception thing, but they seem common to me when hiking/backpacking camping.
> 
> Maybe some people think of them as weapons first, but to me, and I'd assume many others, they are a useful multi-purpose tool. I always have one in my biking bag (and hiking, and backpacking, and work bags), and are well worth the 1-4oz penalty of carrying it.
> 
> ...


No, it's weird that they would carry stuff that has a far less chance of being used and useful. I wasn't speaking directly to knives. A knife on a multi tool would be useful. Less so by itself. Way less so if it's a gun and not a knife. It's like, if one is going to use the "I'd rather be prepared" line...then actually freaking do it.


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Mtbvkk said:


> Does that trail allow bikes? Strange it does'nt show up on trailforks.


Maybe it was an illegal trail and the hiker felt the biker was going tell everybody about his secret digs.

Or......


----------



## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Maybe it was an illegal trail and the hiker felt the biker was going tell everybody about his secret digs.
> 
> Or......


Stupid, grumpy old men, with spoiled 4 year old child attitudes. Put your d!cks away you silly old fools. The only thing they're good for is dribbling on your boots.


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## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Jayem said:


> No, it's weird that they would carry stuff that has a far less chance of being used and useful. I wasn't speaking directly to knives. A knife on a multi tool would be useful. Less so by itself. Way less so if it's a gun and not a knife. It's like, if one is going to use the "I'd rather be prepared" line...then actually freaking do it.


It looks like the knife was a lot more useful to the hiker than any of the other stuff on your list.

On a short hike with a lot of people, it is far more likely that you will be in a disagreement with someone than need an emergency shelter. The most likely bad thing to happen is encounter an aggressive dog. Fire starter is going to help much with that.


----------



## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

Mtbvkk said:


> Does that trail allow bikes? Strange it does'nt show up on trailforks.


I do occasionally see bikes now. It was the old county dump. But then the horseman built riding trails around the road system. Very vast system mostly 2tracks. You can actually connect to the power lines south (same system as brown pow and surf turf). In general....mostly hikers...then horseman...then bikers.... pretty much in that order


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Klurejr said:


> Today I learned that there are Bears and PANTHERS!!!!! in Florida..... What the heck!


Where did you think Florida Panthers lived?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

speedygz said:


> Stupid, grumpy old men, with spoiled 4 year old child attitudes. Put your d!cks away you silly old fools. The only thing they're good for is dribbling on your boots.


Guess what you sound like right now?


----------



## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

chazpat said:


> Where did you think Florida Panthers lived?


I almost went there but held back. 👀


----------



## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

chazpat said:


> Where did you think Florida Panthers lived?


Sunrise, Florida.

I did not know that they were and are a bit more widespread than Florida.








Florida Panther: Species Profile - Everglades National Park (U.S. National Park Service)


panther, florida panther




www.nps.gov


----------



## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Jayem said:


> Orly?
> 
> So you must also bring extra water, extra food, first aid, emergency shelter, extra spokes, extra derailleur, hatchet, fire starter, sat phone/msgr, binoculars, fire extinguisher, etc., you know, all the stuff you are far more likely to actually need and would naturally want to "have and not need it"?


Apparently you overlooked the part where I was talking about wildlife basically? Cool, you carry all that **** and tell me how that will help when encountering a pissed off momma bear with cubs or something else that could mess you up or thinks you could be a great meal. Listen, I'm not worried about riding 20mi into a WMA and getting stuck overnight or something (though I do carry some supplies like an emergency blanket and fire starter when I'm out there). I am however worried about being alone and encountering an animal that could possibly harm me, hence the pocket knife and/or sometimes having my gun. Not sure why this is such a foreign concept to some people? I feel like a lot of people are oblivious to possible dangers in the wild. Also, we have quite a bit of transient folk who love to make illegal camps along some trails and there's been some issues with them getting pretty out of control with riders/hikers passing by. That being said, I've been thinking about getting some bear spray instead of carrying the gun because I carry the gun in my hip pack and it's not exactly quick to access. Either way, you do you.


----------



## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Shark said:


> Florida cougars? Tell us more....lol
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


They live in this place called The Villages.


----------



## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

acer66 said:


> Sunrise, Florida.
> 
> I did not know that they were and are a bit more widespread than Florida.
> 
> ...


Yeah, they're found throughout the state so not just down in The Everglades. My neighbor has a game cam at their back fence (something was getting in their yard and attacking their chickens) and has footage from ~a year or so ago of a panther strolling by on the fire road. They're small in numbers but they're out there!


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Bacon Fat said:


> It looks like the knife was a lot more useful to the hiker than any of the other stuff on your list.


Really?

Was he ever actually threatened in a meaningful way?

No

Did he nearly kill a person for absolutely no reason?

Yes.

Is he serving time in jail for being a moron?

Yes.

This is a perfect example of why a weapon is the stupidest thing you'd bring on a hike.


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> Not sure why this is such a foreign concept to some people?


He lives in Alaska. where you at?


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Ogre said:


> Really?
> 
> Was he ever actually threatened in a meaningful way?
> 
> ...


We don't know what actually happened, since none of us were there. So that is all speculations. Right or wrong, he did find his knife more useful on that hike than a tent. Hitting him with a tent or trying to light him on fire with a match would have been far less effective.


----------



## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Carl Mega said:


> He lives in Alaska. where you at?


Oh, cool, awesome for him! I'm in Central Florida. Though, I'm not sure what location has to do with my comment.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Bacon Fat said:


> We don't know what actually happened, since none of us were there. So that is all speculations. Right or wrong, he did find his knife more useful on that hike than a tent. Hitting him with a tent or trying to light him on fire with a match would have been far less effective.


One thing is certain -- they could simply have gone around one another, _maybe_ got a little upset, then have forgotten about the whole affair in 30 minutes and woken up at home instead of in the hospital and in jail. I'm speculating that both of them feel some amount of regret this morning. It's like those road rage incidents where one driver shoots another driver and there's tremendous loss on both sides.


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Nat said:


> One thing is certain -- they could simply have gone around one another, _maybe_ got a little upset, then have forgotten about the whole affair in 30 minutes and woken up at home instead of in the hospital and in jail. I'm speculating that both of them feel some amount of regret this morning. It's like those road rage incidents where one driver shoots another driver and there's tremendous loss on both sides.


Yep, lives ruined over something so inconsequential


----------



## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Bacon Fat said:


> We don't know what actually happened, since none of us were there. So that is all speculations. Right or wrong, he did find his knife more useful on that hike than a tent. Hitting him with a tent or trying to light him on fire with a match would have been far less effective.


I'm sure as he's serving time*, he'll console himself with that fact.

.

.

* I know, it's unlikely he'll actually serve time, but I'm sure he'll sweat a bit, experience the fun of being on probation, and nice healthy lawyer bills.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Bacon Fat said:


> Yep, lives ruined over something so inconsequential


I find it interesting that if you walk down the sidewalk in a busy city people can manage to go around one another without getting all puffed up. Same goes for walking through a busy market in many foreign countries. People just flow around one another without giving it a second thought. Personal space becomes a matter of territoriality on trails for some reason. Is it only an American thing?


----------



## Bacon Fat (Mar 11, 2016)

Nat said:


> I find it interesting that if you walk down the sidewalk in a busy city people can manage to go around one another without getting all puffed up. Same goes for walking through a busy market in many foreign countries. People just flow around one another without giving it a second thought. Personal space becomes a matter of territoriality on trails for some reason. Is it only an American thing?


Have you walked the street in NYC? People shoulder check each other all the time, although they don't stop to fight about it. Probably because the whole city would turn into a hockey fight if they did


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> Oh, cool, awesome for him! I'm in Central Florida. Though, I'm not sure what location has to do with my comment.


Maybe it's me but I suspect a guy who spends a sh1t ton of time in the backcountry ripe with grizzlies might have a pretty good perspective on wildlife encounters vs some weekender in Central FL. But you go dude!

LULZ:



chadbrochills said:


> I feel like a lot of people are oblivious to possible dangers in the wild.
> ...
> 
> I actually saw a bear on Saturday before sunset while out riding alone with the dog. Was on a limerock road coming around a bend and saw a big black blob walking away from us on the road. Stopped because I realized "holy ****, that's a bear!" and it heard us, turned to look at us, then casually walked off the road into the woods. *First time ever seeing one *and I've been wanting to see one in the wild for a while now. Let's just say after seeing it and realizing it was bigger than I'd imagine one would be, I'll be good for a while. Just Florida black bears which usually aren't aggressive but they will definitely mess you up if they wanted to.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Bacon Fat said:


> Have you walked the street in NYC? People shoulder check each other all the time, although they don't stop to fight about it. Probably because the whole city would turn into a hockey fight if they did


Yes I have, and that's kind of what I'm referring to. Even with some contact people move on.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Shoulder checks are not even a common thing in Shanghai, Tokyo, or many other densely packed places I've been outside the US.

(The last time I was in NYC was before gentrification)


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

chazpat said:


> Where did you think Florida Panthers lived?


never heard of a Florida panther before today.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Klurejr said:


> never heard of a Florida panther before today.


They're related to cougars. We have panthers in Arizona though  and cougars


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Bacon Fat said:


> Have you walked the street in NYC? People shoulder check each other all the time, although they don't stop to fight about it. Probably because the whole city would turn into a hockey fight if they did


I have been to NYC multiple times and don't recall being shoulder checked. maybe in a very crowded place like the subway... but it is expected there.

anyway, I do agree, in NYC people are actually way more friendly than most imagine and people are used to crowded streets and are not quick to become territorial over space on the sidewalk.... they know how to share.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

dysfunction said:


> They're related to cougars. We have panthers in Arizona though  and cougars


now now.... The Arizona Cougar is a human.....


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Klurejr said:


> now now.... The Arizona Cougar is a human.....


Well, there are those too.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

dysfunction said:


> Well, there are those too.


Not a threat to a bunch of old dudes like us. Gotta keep an eye on those kids aging out of NICA though, they are in danger.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Ogre said:


> Not a threat to a bunch of old dudes like us. Gotta keep an eye on those kids aging out of NICA though, they are in danger.


They're also mostly in Scottsdale....


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Try getting on a popular climb in the Gunks on the weekend with captain type-A who has no problem navigating NYC crowds as a normal course in life. They're 2 different environments. 



Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## evasive (Feb 18, 2005)

Klurejr said:


> I have been to NYC multiple times and don't recall being shoulder checked. maybe in a very crowded place like the subway... but it is expected there.
> 
> anyway, I do agree, in NYC people are actually way more friendly than most imagine and people are used to crowded streets and are not quick to become territorial over space on the sidewalk.... they know how to share.


Yeah, I commuted via MetroNorth and either 6 train or walking Park Ave. In my experience there's unavoidable jostling and contact in crowded spaces like subways but I don't remember anything that I'd consider a shoulder check.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

evasive said:


> I don't remember anything that I'd consider a shoulder check.


Me either and I've lived there.

Funny thing is I think the more people are forced together as a course of life and have to coexist like that the more they're conditioned to behave accordingly. I see more stupid **** like people talking in the middle of the sidewalk or staring at their phone in the middle of the sidewalk, or jaywalking in traffic in Portland than I'd ever seen in New York City.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> Well, they hang out in the sewer.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


I'm not sure that cellar dweller could be considered a cougar. But I haven't seen a pic. Odd story, that.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

jochribs said:


> Odd story, that.


Very

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Carl Mega said:


> Maybe it's me but I suspect a guy who spends a sh1t ton of time in the backcountry ripe with grizzlies might have a pretty good perspective on wildlife encounters vs some weekender in Central FL. But you go dude!
> 
> LULZ:


Ok, still don't understand what that has to do with my comment that some people are oblivious to possible dangers in the wild, but whatever. It was a general statement about PEOPLE IN GENERAL, not directed at him specifically.

And it's _so_ funny that I saw for the first time. Fucking LULZ.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

dysfunction said:


> They're related to cougars. We have panthers in Arizona though  and cougars


Plural? Extremely rare. I know a few have been caught on camera, but it was extremely rare when I lived there, there weren't thought to be more than a handful, near the border.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Plural? Extremely rare. I know a few have been caught on camera, but it was extremely rare when I lived there, there weren't thought to be more than a handful, near the border.


Pretty sure he was referring to the ones you find looking for fresh meat in the pubs near the university.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Jayem said:


> Plural? Extremely rare. I know a few have been caught on camera, but it was extremely rare when I lived there, there weren't thought to be more than a handful, near the border.


two distinct individuals (somewhat) regularly being seen now! (to be very clear, seen on camera)

So, I'm just excited about the plurality. I am well aware that officially southern AZ is still just a part of the 'historic range' of their territory.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Ogre said:


> Pretty sure he was referring to the ones you find looking for fresh meat in the pubs near the university.


I was referring to Panthers, Cougars are definitely more common in AZ and Scottsdale.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

The real question is, which is more dangerous? The Cougar or the Panther?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Scott O said:


> Did anyone else pick this up off his website? Kinda cryptic if you ask me....
> 
> *My view*
> In this age of digital relationships, digital sound, and immediate gratification, we often lose sight of the hands-on nature of the arts. To me, guitar making is more than technique or science, more than just the finished product. It is an experiential, hands-on relationship one develops over years of trial and error, and comes to life when one develops a deeper insight into the medium with which one is involved. And if you don't agree with me, I will stab you in your stupid ass!


Oh man, that doesn't look good for the defendant.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Harold said:


> The real question is, which is more dangerous? The Cougar or the Panther?


Which Cougar?

The Scottsdale one is


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

If a panther bumps into a cougar, would it be acceptable for offender to get stabbed? Asking for a friend.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

The great cat will win.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Scott O said:


> If a panther bumps into a cougar, would it be acceptable for offender to get stabbed? Asking for a friend.


Is the panther on a mountain bike? Did the cougar grab the panther's bar end and fall on top of him?

Maybe this is one metaphor too much.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Ogre said:


> Is the panther on a mountain bike? Did the cougar grab the panther's bar end and fall on top of him?
> 
> Maybe this is one metaphor too much.


If the cougar just falls on top of the bar end, no foul. If it starts bouncing up and down on the bar end, well that's a whole nother story.


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

Sir kayakalot said:


> If the cougar just falls on top of the bar end, no foul. If it starts bouncing up and down on the bar end, well that's a whole nother story.


Does the fact that the cougar was 69 have any significance here?


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## speedygz (May 12, 2020)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Guess what you sound like right now?


No idea. It's hilarious, two old farts in a d!ck waving competition, that ends in tears for all concerned. They both get what they deserve for their stupidity 😄😄


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> Ok, still don't understand what that has to do with my comment that some people are oblivious to possible dangers in the wild,


You flamed the guy who lives in bear country on his opinion and I quote:



chadbrochills said:


> Cool, you carry all that **** and tell me how that will help when encountering a pissed off momma bear with cubs or something else that could mess you up or thinks you could be a great meal


you've seen 1 black bear, dude. get a grip. There's a thing: an overreaction to a perceived threat.... common by people without much experience. If we have some concerns about salamanders or snapping turtles, we'll ask you mr florida.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

Damn there’s a lot of anger on MTBR lately. You guys need to go ride


----------



## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Rough skinned newts can fuahahck you up! 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Damn there's a lot of anger on MTBR lately. You guys need to go ride


I do feel a bit surly and def need a ride. So don't make me throw my bike on top of you.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Carl Mega said:


> I do feel a bit surly and def need a ride. So don't make me throw my bike on top of you.


The used to have a huffy toss at MBO. They would chase down the crappiest, heaviest huffy they could find and see who could get the most loft out of it. Sadly this ended probably 6-7 years ago due to the tosser injuring himself.

I think this says something about how effective bikes are as weapons. I'm just not sure what.


----------



## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

I didn't really intend to get sucked into this convo... just read some amazing comments that left me shaking my head.

Anyway - the best weapon against a bear, isn't a weapon at all - it's your brain. Being educated on wildlife and having situational awareness will prevent you from having an adversarial encounter you really have almost no chance of winning anyway. Most negative encounters are about what you did or failed to notice.

Watch how fast this black bear runs after another bear (and how it scales a tree!) in this video: 




Same video here but with more footage: 




I've seen hundreds of bears on my property or in the wild proper. Amazing creatures and are due respect. If they want to move or charge, you will be taken back on how fast they are. Best of luck on retrieving a weapon that requires precision accuracy and likely won't impede the bear anyway. The idea of carrying as a first line of defense is laughable. I'm no expert but when I read/hear some people say cray-cray things I'm like "the only people who believe that are people who never seen a bear react".... run away or climb a tree or remove a weapon from a backpack and draw?...psffft.

1) Judgement & awareness
2) Bear spray
3) Prayers and guns

I can't say that it's no chance or maybe wouldn't see you survive something you wouldn't ordinarily - a stalking situation maybe.... but if you were actually serious about safety and outcomes, you'd educate yourself on their behavior and apply yourself to being attentive & diligent.

virtually all black bear encounters are not hostile. Most 'scary' situations you hear about are due to people and frankly are probably not overly life-threatening - but understandably perceived that way. Camp scavengers and such.

All that goes out the window with browns - that is not my area tho - Im sure Jayem can educate


----------



## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

I don’t need any signs or ROW rules whatsoever to know that I should treat fellow trail users respectfully and safely.

Both parties in this incident were likely being total idiots. Sadly, narcissism and idiocy have become the norm in our country.


----------



## Nails (Sep 25, 2020)

America as it was intended is dead. Courtesy and respect was a given and didn’t need to be written in the Constitution. Then there is the “shall not be infringed...”. 

Seems mtbr has proven selfish, gimme, no responsibility and blame others or other generations is the planet we live on now.


----------



## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

Nails said:


> America as it was intended is dead. Courtesy and respect was a given and didn't need to be written in the Constitution. Then there is the "shall not be infringed...".


y'know, there is a part of America that's like this. but you gotta look for it. which is all messed up. you should have to look in the underground of America to see stuff like this happening.


----------



## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Harold said:


> The real question is, which is more dangerous? The Cougar or the Panther?


What about the Bears? All that leather makes them look pretty tough.


----------



## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Who knew Mike Vandeman moved to the PNW?


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

rebel1916 said:


> The hiker is gonna rightfully pay a price, but the root of this is two old fools, with the common sense and ego of teenage gang members.


Probably there was a nice old grandma nearby that they were trying to impress.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

r-rocket said:


> What about the Bears? All that leather makes them look pretty tough.


nah, they may look tough, but they're just sweetie pies in the end.


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

WHALENARD said:


> 1- The mtb biker fled the scene and only called ER when he was in serious decline.


I drove home with a broken leg and went to the ER later. And if someone stabs you, getting out of there sounds like the smart thing to do (if you are not risking getting stabbed again).

Maybe the guy had a horrible health insurance and did not want to risk a high ER premium, thought he can go to the doctor tomorrow. I have seen many people delay healthcare because of cost, until they really have to.

We don't know enough to say he "fled".


----------



## rebel1916 (Sep 16, 2006)

r-rocket said:


> Sure. Here is the WAC for the State of Washington where this happened. Basically bikers have to yield to hikers, but hikers can't power trip and use that as an excuse to block everybody else.
> 
> *WAC 332-52-410*
> "
> ...


Yeah, but that isn't what you said in your original post. And this is about roads, not trails.


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

rebel1916 said:


> Yeah, but that isn't what you said in your original post. And this is about roads, not trails.


Are you talking about the stabbing incident or something else? The articles say that the stabbing incident was on a trail.


----------



## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

rebel1916 said:


> Yeah, but that isn't what you said in your original post. And this is about roads, not trails.


"(2) What are the responsibilities of persons operating motorized or nonmotorized vehicles on department-managed roads *and trails*?"


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Did anyone bring up the point about the knife in the altercation being an illegal “spring blade knife?” That doesn’t look good for the defendant either.


----------



## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I think someone did bring up the type of knife earlier in the thread. There is a Kershaw spring loaded and a Microtech spring loaded.


----------



## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Nat said:


> Did anyone bring up the point about the knife in the altercation being an illegal "spring blade knife?" That doesn't look good for the defendant either.


Mentioned it briefly before, but have a bit more info now.

In Washington state "spring blade knives" are illegal. Originally I wasn't finding the definition for what was considered "spring blade knives" in the legal code. I wasn't sure if an assisted knife counted. But I poked around more and found it.

Here it is if anyone is wondering.

From THIS link (*RCW 9.41.250*).

(2) *"Spring blade knife" means any knife*, including a prototype, model, or other sample, *with a blade that is automatically released by a spring mechanism or other mechanical device, or any knife having a blade which opens, or falls, or is ejected into position by the force of gravity, or by an outward, downward, or centrifugal thrust or movement.

A knife that contains a spring, detent, or other mechanism designed to create a bias toward closure of the blade and that requires physical exertion applied to the blade by hand, wrist, or arm to overcome the bias toward closure to assist in opening the knife is not a spring blade knife.*

This should mean that Kershaw Speedsafe knives (and similar, with a bias towards closure) should be legal. Which means then that the knife used was likely some sort of out the front design (aka, a "full auto", or "OTF", or more commonly just called a "switchblade"). And, it looks like in WA, those are not just illegal to carry, but even to own (some states let you collect them, but not carry them).


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

A few months ago, I was hiking my local trail that I ride every day when I came upon a group of guys on E-bikes resting (from what?) with their bikes lying right across the trail. 

I told them they shouldn’t leave their bikes in the middle of the trail because a lot of people ride pretty fast through that section. They started getting in my face and made some insulting remarks about me being a hiker. 

There were four of them and I had my arm in a sling from a crash and trip to the ER the week before so I just moved on. There was probably not much point in further discussion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

CrozCountry said:


> I drove home with a broken leg and went to the ER later. And if someone stabs you, getting out of there sounds like the smart thing to do (if you are not risking getting stabbed again).
> 
> Maybe the guy had a horrible health insurance and did not want to risk a high ER premium, thought he can go to the doctor tomorrow. I have seen many people delay healthcare because of cost, until they really have to.
> 
> We don't know enough to say he "fled".


Fair points.
I once powered through a sprained corpus cavernosum. I did "leave" immediately afterwards though.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

Carl Mega said:


> Maybe it's me but I suspect a guy who spends a sh1t ton of time in the backcountry ripe with grizzlies might have a pretty good perspective on wildlife encounters vs some weekender in Central FL. But you go dude!
> 
> LULZ:


The lower 48 has no monopoly on morons. 
Lulz.


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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

celswick said:


> A few months ago, I was hiking my local trail that I ride every day when I came upon a group of guys on E-bikes resting (from what?) with their bikes lying right across the trail.
> 
> I told them they shouldn't leave their bikes in the middle of the trail because a lot of people ride pretty fast through that section. They started getting in my face and made some insulting remarks about me being a hiker.
> 
> ...


Just curious, but the last paragraph makes it
sound like had you been more up to it, you might have thrown down??


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> Fair points.
> I once powered through a sprained corpus cavernosum. I did "leave" immediately afterwards though.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Looked it up.LOL


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Harold said:


> nah, they may look tough, but they're just sweetie pies in the end.


Turns out you are right. The National Park Service's advice is to stay calm and just talk to Bears.

*"Identify yourself* by talking calmly so the bear knows you"
*"Stay calm* and remember that most bears do not want to attack you; they usually just want to be left alone "
"Continue to talk to the bear in low tones; this will help you stay calmer"

Not sure how this is supposed to work though:
"*Make yourselves look as large as possible* "


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

r-rocket said:


> Not sure how this is supposed to work though:
> "*Make yourselves look as large as possible* "


It simply means eat all the donuts in your backpack all the while making "MMMMMmmmmm, this is soooooo good" sounds.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Nat said:


> I find it interesting that if you walk down the sidewalk in a busy city people can manage to go around one another without getting all puffed up. Same goes for walking through a busy market in many foreign countries. People just flow around one another without giving it a second thought. Personal space becomes a matter of territoriality on trails for some reason. Is it only an American thing?


In my experience hikers have no problem walking past one another. When I've hiked I've never had issues with other trail users. What I have found is that there are some people who feel like bikes should not be on trails, or that bikers should dismount to pass them and get quite angry and rude about it.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Good points Carl. I'm a wildlife buff and have learned to look for different body languages and what they mean in all wildlife I'm viewing. After seeing numerous Black Bears in the wild sleeping in trees I've come accustomed to looking for them up high in forested areas. They always pick the largest tree around that have a nice horizontal well covered canopy.

I've seen three bears sleeping in this tree at the same time. This day a month later there was one. A HUGE male boar. I gave him his space and peace and quiet and moved along.










This day I spotted a Sow female and her three Cubs.

















They were traveling on a mountain ridge about 200' above a river. I was walking at a fast pace [almost running] on the other side of the river just trying to keep up with them to get some photos. I managed a couple of photos of the group as they entered a clearing. Suddenly the mother stopped looked at me then headed straight downhill towards me. I froze, 45 seconds later she emerged 75-100' max out of the tall grass on the other side of the river directly across from me. I could have been easily taken had she kept coming. I was frozen still as she stopped at the rivers edge, our eyes met, I was frozen [scared as hell] for two minutes which seemed like 20, we were at a standoff. After I was convinced she knew I met no threat to her babies, I then turned slowly and walked away very slowly [in the opposite direction] looking over my shoulder the whole time. She watched me for a few seconds walk away slowly, she then turned and disappeared into the tall weeds behind her and headed up the mountain side back to her cubs.

Respect their space and read body language. Know how to act with the species you're dealing with.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

Thanks for sharing DJ. I always groove on a bear sighting. Amongst my favorite creatures to observe. Grateful for the privilege of seeing a massive critter go about its business - the confidence & curiosity.

Really tuned to their scent. I know it's weird but they leave so much scat in my yard that I'm like a PI inspecting what the current food sources are.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Good points Carl. I'm a wildlife buff and have learned to look for different body languages and what they mean in all wildlife I'm viewing. After seeing numerous Black Bears in the wild sleeping in trees I've come accustomed to looking for them up high in forested areas. They always pick the largest tree around that have a nice horizontal well covered canopy.


With your outdoors experience, do you have tips about reading the body language of hikers? ?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Carl Mega said:


> Thanks for sharing DJ. I always groove on a bear sighting. Amongst my favorite creatures to observe. Grateful for the privilege of seeing a massive critter go about its business - the confidence & curiosity.
> 
> Really tuned to their scent. I know it's weird but they leave so much scat in my yard that I'm like a PI inspecting what the current food sources are.


Berries, lol!
Last summer one was visiting the easement on the other side of my backyard fence. I never saw it but I sure saw remnants from it being there from the night before in the form of skat piles.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

CrozCountry said:


> With your outdoors experience, do you have tips about reading the body language of hikers? ?


I do, I'm in the process of writing a book so most of it is confidential right now. In due time the public will know how to read body language and avoid such trail interactions, if you buy the book that is.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

downcountry said:


> Just curious, but the last paragraph makes it
> sound like had you been more up to it, you might have thrown down??


That's just a little internet bravado. If I was up to it, I wouldn't have been hiking. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## thegock (Jan 21, 2014)

NIMB YNUT

Crazy Mary (as she is known in the community) was walking east on fire road on a sunny, 65 degree October morning, and blocked the road with arms akimbo facing us. My buddy was about 15 yards ahead of me on the left side of the road. She grabs his handlebars as he attempts to pass to her right and stops him. She tries to pull Russ' rear fender off as he tries to pass her. Then she releases Russ and grabs my handlebars while I try to pass on her left and pushes me. I fell to the ground off the fire road to my right. Turning back to Russ, she begins to push him.

When I stood up, she pushed me hard four times to the point where I nearly fall backward into a three foot deep stream bed. Crazy Mary started to shout at me that she would bring her Rottweiler out to attack me. As I tried to remount my bike and leave, she punched me on the right side of my jaw and kicked me in the groin. 

It was then that I realized that she liked my buddy better than me. Finally, I was able to escape.

I filed a police report with the County police. When I saw the report, I can decide whether to press charges for assault, which is how the receiving officer characterized the incident. What would you do?

A couple of months later, Crazy Mary and her pay lawyer were called up before the bench. The Judge then called us up as well, and asked all three defendants (she had filed a cross complaint a month after my complaint) whether they wanted to withdraw their complaints. We all said 'yes' and he asked us the same question again. The Judge then said that all charges were dismissed.

He then said to Crazy Mary that in the future if she saw people riding bikes in the woods, she should call the authorities and not take the law into her own hands. My buddy and I left and had a cold beer at his house.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I do, I'm in the process of writing a book so most of it is confidential right now. In due time the public will know how to read body language and avoid such trail interactions, if you buy the book that is.


You need to fast track this book. It could save mtbr's from getting stabbed


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Carl Mega said:


> You flamed the guy who lives in bear country on his opinion and I quote:
> 
> you've seen 1 black bear, dude. get a grip. There's a thing: an overreaction to a perceived threat.... common by people without much experience. If we have some concerns about salamanders or snapping turtles, we'll ask you mr florida.


I flamed him? Are you fucking high man? Want to talk about overreactions....

I love how you assume **** based on me living in Florida, meanwhile you know really don't know anything. ?‍♂ Basically all because I said I sometimes carry a handgun when I ride alone and listed a few reasons why, not _just_ because of bears. And I love your quip about snapping turtle and salamanders. Your ignorance reminds me of people that come to Florida and decide to go swimming in a lake only to get attacked by a gator. You do you, Mr. Bear Whisperer.


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

chadbrochills said:


> based on me living in Florida


Yup and because you say stupid sh1t. Mostly the former.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

thegock said:


> NIMB YNUT
> 
> Crazy Mary (as she is known in the community) was walking east on fire road on a sunny, 65 degree October morning, and blocked the road with arms akimbo facing us. My buddy was about 15 yards ahead of me on the left side of the road. She grabs his handlebars as he attempts to pass to her right and stops him. She tries to pull Russ' rear fender off as he tries to pass her. Then she releases Russ and grabs my handlebars while I try to pass on her left and pushes me. I fell to the ground off the fire road to my right. Turning back to Russ, she begins to push him.
> 
> ...


Not a chance in hell would I have withdrew my complaint. You went through all the steps and we're in front of the judge. Now she'll do it again to some poor other souls. 
Also, if someone punches me, woman or otherwise, all bets are off.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

chadbrochills said:


> I flamed him? Are you fucking high man? Want to talk about overreactions....
> 
> I love how you assume **** based on me living in Florida, meanwhile you know really don't know anything. 🤷‍♂️ Basically all because I said I sometimes carry a handgun when I ride alone and listed a few reasons why, not _just_ because of bears. And I love your quip about snapping turtle and salamanders. Your ignorance reminds me of people that come to Florida and decide to go swimming in a lake only to get attacked by a gator. You do you, Mr. Bear Whisperer.


That does not seem chill...

KIDDING.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Carl Mega said:


> Yup and because you say stupid sh1t. Mostly the former.


 More like I said something you didn't agree with (sometimes carrying a gun while I'm out riding alone) and you started talking **** claiming I "flamed" your buddy. But whatever, yeah I'm the one who say's stupid ****. Just going to drop it, we'll never see eye to eye and I'm perfectly fine with that.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Nat said:


> That does not seem chill...
> 
> KIDDING.


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## thegock (Jan 21, 2014)

WHALENARD said:


> Not a chance in hell would I have withdrew my complaint. You went through all the steps and we're in front of the judge. Now she'll do it again to some poor other souls.
> Also, if someone punches me, woman or otherwise, all bets are off.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


You are right. That was my opinion before the long legal process. However, no one in the legal system thought the case was worthy of prosecution.

It has been three and a half years, now. She hasn't done it again. In fact she avoids me, consistent with the Judge's instructions, and averts her eyes on the few occasions that I have seen her on the trails. It make me laugh.









Her key ally and trail vandal has moved away and another, more intemperate, hater had a coronary event, the day after he engaged with a MTB and sadly, passed on. The trails are better than ever and the new pandemic users tend to be more cheerful than the Mike Vandemans of our world. Just ride, aight?


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

best take-away: people in Florida think it's 'outsiders' doing stupid shi1t in their state. Don't dare change FL, you got this.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Sir kayakalot said:


> You need to fast track this book. It could save mtbr's from getting stabbed


It would have already been out end of June last year but the pandemic has slowed the production down to a snail pace. There's been times this past year I've thought about throwing in the towel but with this latest stabbing incident I see I have a moral obligation to follow through with it. Fingers crossed of course.

My priorities have changed, I'm not looking for any financial gain on this now.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> It would have already been out end of June last year but the pandemic has slowed the production down to a snail pace. There's been times this past year I've thought about throwing in the towel but with this latest stabbing incident I see I have a moral obligation to follow through with it. Fingers crossed of course.
> 
> My priorities have changed, I'm not looking for any financial gain on this now.


Getting a book published is a daunting task. So many hoops to jump through, Good luck


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Getting a book published is a daunting task. So many hoops to jump through, Good luck


 Donations are not frowned upon.


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## chadbrochills (Aug 9, 2018)

Carl Mega said:


> best take-away: people in Florida think it's 'outsiders' doing stupid shi1t in their state. Don't dare change FL, you got this.


 Yeah man, because that's _exactly_ what I said or alluded to. Just more nonsense...


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

We go from stabbings to bears. This thread is really fun right now


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Battery said:


> We go from stabbings to bears. This thread is really fun right now


Fight a bear and stab it with a pocket knife and we'll be full circle.


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## diamondback1x9 (Dec 21, 2020)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Fight a bear and stab it with a pocket knife and we'll be full circle.


then post on social media about how the bear provoked you and pinned you to the ground.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

diamondback1x9 said:


> then post on social media about how the bear provoked you and pinned you to the ground.


He wouldn't yield my privileged, self centered, selfish ass, the right of way so I stabbed him.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> He wouldn't yield my privileged, self centered, selfish ass, the right of way so I stabbed him.


Damn. DJ is so violent. I cannot permit you aboard my ship!

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## DormerHarpring (Apr 1, 2021)

dysfunction said:


> Everyone always thinks they have the ROW. They're almost always wrong.


 Hahaha so so true!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

thegock said:


> NIMB YNUT
> 
> Crazy Mary (as she is known in the community) was walking east on fire road on a sunny, 65 degree October morning, and blocked the road with arms akimbo facing us. My buddy was about 15 yards ahead of me on the left side of the road. She grabs his handlebars as he attempts to pass to her right and stops him. She tries to pull Russ' rear fender off as he tries to pass her. Then she releases Russ and grabs my handlebars while I try to pass on her left and pushes me. I fell to the ground off the fire road to my right. Turning back to Russ, she begins to push him.
> 
> ...


She made for a cool song though!


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

After a couple beers last night, I read this thread title as "Mtb rider stabbed by Hitler"

Whoops. Hahaha


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

VTSession said:


> After a couple beers last night, I read this thread title as "Mtb rider stabbed by Hitler"


Why would anyone ride a mountain bike in a bunker in the middle of Berlin?


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## 786737 (Mar 13, 2015)

CrozCountry said:


> Why would anyone ride a mountain bike in a bunker in the middle of Berlin?


Maybe they did nazi it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

the one ring said:


> Maybe they did nazi it.


Maybe they were just Stalin before they had to go somewhere.


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## thegock (Jan 21, 2014)

Especially in the mid 1940's b4 mtbs were invented.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

VTSession said:


> After a couple beers last night, I read this thread title as "Mtb rider stabbed by Hitler"


It was probably "Mtb rider stabbed at Hitler".
We have a trail called Hitler and it's exactly in the region where you would expect a mountain biker stabbed by an angry hiker.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

Damn. I never have this much fun on the trail. Imagine how exciting mountain biking would be if every hiker tried to stab you?


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

TylerVernon said:


> Damn. I never have this much fun on the trail. Imagine how exciting mountain biking would be if every hiker tried to stab you?


Return of the bar-ends, but this time they are pointed. _Mad Max, Fury Trail_


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

why can't hiker use taser? this is so old fashion.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Picard said:


> why can't hiker use taser? this is so old fashion.


Yeah or with the growing number of electronics use a device that takes over.
Like turning the cranks backwards on an ebike or shift down electronic shifters.
You could just hide a scrambler doing randoms with a wildlife camera and go viral on youtube.
Have it remote controlled and have fun with bikers sweating away not knowing what happens to them while you sit on the couch at the comfort at your own home.


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## andyrew123456789 (Apr 5, 2021)

Shark said:


> Too bad there wasn't video. But obviously, both sides should have acted more like adults.
> 
> Reminds me of that video from a few years ago, at an actual downhill park, where some guy ran into a woman that was standing in the middle of the trail on the backside of a jump. Of course, both sides of the story were"it's the other person's fault". You hit me! Why are you standing in the middle of a downhill trail!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


still her fault for standing IN THE MIDDLE OF A DOWNHILL MTB TRAIL.


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## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

A Bellingham hiker is facing a felony assault charge after he allegedly stabbed a mountain biker multiple times during a right-of-way dispute on a trail in early March.
Dake Hartman Traphagen, 69, was charged March 23 in Whatcom County Superior Court with first-degree assault while armed with a deadly weapon, a felony, and possession of a dangerous weapon, a gross misdemeanor. Traphagen was released the same day from the Whatcom County Jail on $1,000 cash bail, according to court records.
Traphagen’s arraignment is scheduled for April 12.
“As previously stated at his first appearance, Mr. Traphagen has a very strong self-defense claim which is supported by two independent witnesses who we expect to testify about the attack on my client. Unlike the alleged victim, he remained at the scene and cooperated with law enforcement,” Traphagen’s defense attorney, Angela Anderson, said in a prepared statement sent to The Bellingham Herald. “My client is a 69-year-old man who cares about his community, volunteers often, and has no history of violence or aggression. We ask that people refrain from judgment and let the truth come out through the court process.”
RIGHT OF WAY ARGUMENT Whatcom County sheriff’s deputies were called to the 3500 block of Y Road on the afternoon of March 6 for the report of a stabbing on the Stewart Mountain Trail. Deputies spoke with a group of hikers, including Traphagen, at the trailhead parking lot.
The group of hikers said they were hiking down the trail when they came across a mountain biker going up the trail, according to a previous story in The Bellingham Herald. An argument followed over which had the right of way on the trail. A witness who was not with the group of hikers but who came upon the altercation told deputies Traphagen allegedly said the biker attacked him and that the biker was not following the rule of yielding the right of way to hikers, the court records state.
Traphagen allegedly told deputies he felt threatened for his life and stabbed the victim, according to court records.
Deputies interviewed the 66-year-old victim several days later and were told that in that particular area there is a large tree root that crosses the trail. The biker stated he was not going very fast, but had enough speed to hop over the root, according to court records. The biker also stated his shoes were clipped into the pedals of his bike and that it’s difficult to unclip them at slow speeds while traveling uphill.
The victim told deputies that he allegedly announced as he was riding his bike uphill and asked the group of hikers to move several times. The biker told deputies Traphagen allegedly said no and then grabbed his bicycle’s handlebars and the pair fell over, the court records state. The biker landed on top of Traphagen, according to court records.
The victim told deputies he didn’t hit, swing or threaten Traphagen. The victim said one of the female hikers who was with Traphagen grabbed his helmet and started pulling it, which choked him, as Traphagen allegedly began to stab him, according to court records.
MULTIPLE INJURIES One of the other women who was hiking with Traphagen took a video of the incident, which appears to show the victim attempting to stand up while his helmet is being grabbed by the other woman, court records state. All of the hikers are yelling at the biker to get off of Traphagen, according to court records.
The woman let go of the biker’s helmet, and Traphagen pushed the victim off of him. The victim stood up and grabbed his bike. The woman who grabbed the biker’s helmet asked what was wrong with him, and the biker allegedly said Traphagen stabbed him multiple times. Traphagen allegedly responded that “you are lucky,” court records state.
The biker asked for someone to call 911 at least three times, according to the court records. The woman who filmed part of the incident called, and allegedly told dispatchers she didn’t know Traphagen had a knife and she was concerned the victim would pass out on his way down the trail due to his injuries, according to court records.
The witness who was not with either party who came upon the incident said they wanted to perform first aid on the biker, but didn’t feel it was safe due to “the aggressive behavior” coming from Traphagen and one of the women he was with, the court records state.
The victim returned to his home and paramedics were later called due to “excessive blood loss from stab wounds,” the court records state.
The biker was airlifted to Harborview Medical Center in Seattle due to the extent of his injuries. The man was stabbed five times, and a major nerve in his arm was severed, according to court records. The biker has lost feeling in multiple fingers and was told there could be permanent damage, the records state.
Traphagen allegedly had a spring-blade knife, which is illegal to possess in Washington. Traphagen turned himself in on the morning of March 23, according to court records.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> A Bellingham hiker is facing a felony assault charge after he allegedly stabbed a mountain biker multiple times during a right-of-way dispute on a trail in early March.
> Dake Hartman Traphagen, 69, was charged March 23 in Whatcom County Superior Court with first-degree assault while armed with a deadly weapon, a felony, and possession of a dangerous weapon, a gross misdemeanor. Traphagen was released the same day from the Whatcom County Jail on $1,000 cash bail, according to court records.
> Traphagen's arraignment is scheduled for April 12.
> "As previously stated at his first appearance, Mr. Traphagen has a very strong self-defense claim which is supported by two independent witnesses who we expect to testify about the attack on my client. Unlike the alleged victim, he remained at the scene and cooperated with law enforcement," Traphagen's defense attorney, Angela Anderson, said in a prepared statement sent to The Bellingham Herald. "My client is a 69-year-old man who cares about his community, volunteers often, and has no history of violence or aggression. We ask that people refrain from judgment and let the truth come out through the court process."
> ...


What's the source of this article?


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

$1000 bail for all those scary sounding crimes.


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## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

Nat said:


> What's the source of this article?


Bham Herald. From a day or so ago.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> Bham Herald. From a day or so ago.


Thanks


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

I think in even the most generous reading of that incident - there is nothing that warrants stabbing someone "in fear of your life".

at best: "got into a tussle I didn't want to have so I stabbed someone"


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> MULTIPLE INJURIES One of the other women who was hiking with Traphagen took a video of the incident, which appears to show the victim attempting to stand up while his helmet is being grabbed by the other woman, court records state.


It's good that there's video documentation.



Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> The witness who was not with either party who came upon the incident said they wanted to perform first aid on the biker, but didn't feel it was safe due to "the aggressive behavior" coming from Traphagen and one of the women he was with, the court records state.


Ooof. It's good that there was at least one impartial witnesses too.


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## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

Nat said:


> It's good that there's video documentation.
> 
> Ooof. It's good that there was at least one impartial witnesses too.


I saw the original post on ND. Along with a guy that came upon the incident a few minutes latter. His story casted a very bad light on the hiker post attitudes. In the forum Dake told him that he didn't see the incident and came on After the fact. This man stated that the biker asked for them to call 911 for medical help. Hikers said only if you fall over and can't make it back to the trail head. I did understand that they did make a callb4 his request. After hearing a lot of different local stories. I feel things are coming together.
I agree on the vid. I do not think it included the original physical confrontation. 
There were 4 hikers. One of which is Dakes wife. I would assume she was the one that also got physical w the biker. 1 of the other ladies/hiker made a post on ND that seemed to agree with Dakes original story... But never heard anything from the 4th hiker. I assume she may have a different view of things. Possible not in agreement with her other hiking friends. 
Again as so many of you have posted... This could have been totally avoided...just with a little consideration for one another.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

> Unlike the alleged victim, he remained at the scene and cooperated with law enforcement," Traphagen's defense attorney, Angela Anderson, said in a prepared statement sent to The Bellingham Herald.


So he fails the alleged victim not to stay put?
That is pretty rich considering that he just stabbed the guy.


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## thegock (Jan 21, 2014)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> I saw the original post on ND.


What is "ND?"

I keep thinking "Ninja Death."


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

thegock said:


> What is "ND?"
> 
> I keep thinking "Ninja Death."


North Dakota


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## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

thegock said:


> What is "ND?"
> 
> I keep thinking "Ninja Death."


Nextdoor


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Sounds like a bunch of fragile elders who never learned their manners. Shame on all involved.

Trail rage is real! I bet that's the last time this dude on the bike claims to have right of way to hikers...


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Yeah, I think manic with a knife has right of way 100% of the time.


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Any word o if the rider had any GoPro footage? Everyone’s recoding these days


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## Mtbakerhuskyx2 (Mar 25, 2021)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> Nextdoor


It's a Neighborhood App.
Funny enough before this took place just a week prior some lady wrote on the app about her kids on horseback were thrown when a downhill biker came down and did not yeild. Dake himself chimed in and jumped on the anti mtb bandwagon. A local quickly pointed that out to everyone in hopes that this would be brought up in Court


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

It's not hard to be polite and friendly on the trail. I do my best to be an ambassador to mountain biking when encountering other trail users. In 36 years of riding, I've never had an issue. There was once a lady on a horse with a condescending tone but I said "Have a nice day" with a smile and continued my climb.


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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> I saw the original post on ND. Along with a guy that came upon the incident a few minutes latter. His story casted a very bad light on the hiker post attitudes. In the forum Dake told him that he didn't see the incident and came on After the fact. This man stated that the biker asked for them to call 911 for medical help. Hikers said only if you fall over and can't make it back to the trail head. I did understand that they did make a callb4 his request. After hearing a lot of different local stories. I feel things are coming together.
> I agree on the vid. I do not think it included the original physical confrontation.
> There were 4 hikers. One of which is Dakes wife. I would assume she was the one that also got physical w the biker. 1 of the other ladies/hiker made a post on ND that seemed to agree with Dakes original story... But never heard anything from the 4th hiker. I assume she may have a different view of things. Possible not in agreement with her other hiking friends.
> Again as so many of you have posted... *This could have been totally avoided...just with a little consideration for one another.*


Well, probably every war thru history could have been avoided...just with a little consideration for one another. 
That, sadly, is just not who we are.


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

chazpat said:


> Yeah, I think manic with a knife has right of way 100% of the time.


How do you know he was manic?


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

milehi said:


> It's not hard to be polite and friendly on the trail. I do my best to be an ambassador to mountain biking when encountering other trail users. In 36 years of riding, I've never had an issue. There was once a lady on a horse with a condescending tone but I said "Have a nice day" with a smile and continued my climb.


That _b*tch._


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Finch Platte said:


> How do you know he was manic?


The stabby stabby part.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

chazpat said:


> The stabby stabby part.


Dead giveaway.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## vizcarmb (Apr 7, 2021)

The cyclist was trying to go uphill while the hikers were trying to go down and the cyclists ask them to move???? He could have just waited until the group passed.. 
Seems kinda impatient to me.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

downcountry said:


> Well, probably every war thru history could have been avoided...just with a little consideration for one another.
> That, sadly, is just not who we are.


That, sadly, is just what we choose to be.
Blaming whatever or whoever for our own behavior is just not taking responsibility for our own actions.


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## Fajita Dave (Mar 22, 2012)

vizcarmb said:


> The cyclist was trying to go uphill while the hikers were trying to go down and the cyclists ask them to move???? He could have just waited until the group passed..
> Seems kinda impatient to me.


I agree and it's perfectly reasonable to stab someone multiple times over this mundane right of way dispute.

Tigger warning that I'm being sarcastic. I felt like I made that obvious but ya never know what someone might try to stab you for.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Mtbakerhuskyx2 said:


> Funny enough before this took place just a week prior some lady wrote on the app about her kids on horseback were thrown when a downhill biker came down and did not yeild. Dake himself chimed in and jumped on the anti mtb bandwagon.


If Dake stabs a horse, would you help the horse stab Dake? And don't even get me started with Jack.


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## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

It seems like Dake had stuff stewing for a while against mountain bikers. This could be a crime of passion. Years of frustration exploded in a moment of conflict on the trail.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Mtbvkk said:


> It seems like Dake had stuff stewing for a while against mountain bikers. This could be a crime of (passion) *selfishness/stupidity*. Years of frustration exploded in a moment *selfishness/stupidity* of on the trail.


fixed it a bit....


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## DirtyTurq (Apr 14, 2021)

Battery said:


> Wow, this is crazy: Mountain Biker Stabbed by Hiker After Right of Way Dispute - Pinkbike


Another reason to ride flats


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

FYI, my search for "Hiker Stabbed By Mountain Biker" yielded no results. Just sayin'.


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

has anyone heard anything about the Dake Traphagen trial? has it started yet? has Dake struck a plea bargain?
is Dake going to the slammer? what's the word?


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

Re read this thread. As a local who is familiar with that trail and who was in law enforcement for more than a few years in that county, I can reply to some of the conjecture. If the “stabee” “fled”, it was likely because at that particular location you could be waiting a long time for the deputies to get to you. You could bleed to death while waiting. could take a half hour or more, depending on where the deputy was when dispatched. its a mountainous area with a big lake next to it, one of those “you can’t get there from here” places. Why would you hang out and wait for the guy that just stabbed you to come back, while you were waiting on the deputy that you called on him? second, hiking etiquette is that the uphill person has the right of way. Not that these goobers would know anything about etiquette. I can see why the rider wouldn’t want to dismount, on a steep section when he has a little momentum as well as the right of way. It would be unreasonable for him to think that the hikers would try to kill him for passing. Lastly, for all you chuckling millennials, the last time we had someone knifed too death on a trail, the victim was a boomer and the killer was a millennial, just saying …


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

JimmyAsheville said:


> I can see why the rider...he has...the right of way.


Bike riders never have the right of way.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

JimmyAsheville said:


> second, hiking etiquette is that the uphill person has the right of way.


yes, to other hikers.... not to cyclists. Unless there are some very specific rules on that trail.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Silentfoe said:


> Bike riders never have the right of way.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


There are trails hikers use that are mountain bike specific and I've encountered hikers on a closed course while racing the clock. In that situation where I'm full throttle, I'm not slowing down.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

marcus4333 said:


> has anyone heard anything about the Dake Traphagen trial? has it started yet? has Dake struck a plea bargain?
> is Dake going to the slammer? what's the word?


I'm curious as well.

Such a crazy situation.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

milehi said:


> There are trails hikers use that are mountain bike specific and I've encountered hikers on a closed course while racing the clock. In that situation where I'm full throttle, I'm not slowing down.


I see it all the time on our trails. We had a great loop for years that everybody shared that was suddenly shut down to bikers. They built a new trail that connects with it that is not near as fun. It's designated "no hikers" but bikers, trail runners and equestrians only. So the hikers got the good trail to themselves and the bikers are shuffled in with all the other multi use trail disciplines. Yet I see hikers on our trail all the time. If I were to ride my bike on the "hiker only" old trail I'd get fined and probably banned from the area.


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I see it all the time on our trails. We had a great loop for years that everybody shared that was suddenly shut down to bikers. They built a new trail that connects with it that is not near as fun. It's designated "no hikers" but bikers, trail runners and equestrians only. So the hikers got the good trail to themselves and the bikers are shuffled in with all the other multi use trail disciplines. Yet I see hikers on our trail all the time. If I were to ride my bike on the "hiker only" old trail I'd get fined and probably banned from the area.


Hopefully you stop them and chew them out. Otherwise what's the point?

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Interesting that they separate hikers from trail runners. As a trail runner, I get it but I've never seen regulations split them.

But yeah, I wouldn't chew them out but I would mention that they are on a no-hiker trail. The only ones around me like that are more downhill jumpline type trails. 

And roughly on the same subject, the NPS finally put up signs in my NRA saying hikers are supposed to go the opposite direction than the mtbers (direction changes daily). I'm sure that'll get ignored a lot but still better than it was. I trail run in the direction for hikers.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I see it all the time on our trails. We had a great loop for years that everybody shared that was suddenly shut down to bikers. They built a new trail that connects with it that is not near as fun. It's designated "no hikers" but bikers, trail runners and equestrians only. So the hikers got the good trail to themselves and the bikers are shuffled in with all the other multi use trail disciplines. Yet I see hikers on our trail all the time. If I were to ride my bike on the "hiker only" old trail I'd get fined and probably banned from the area.


I bet they are bad parkers too.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Klurejr said:


> I bet they are bad parkers too.


Pretty sure there's some double parkers in there.


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

_bump_......Dake's trial was supposed to be scheduled for the end of July (maybe it got pushed?). come on! some one has had to have heard something about this alleged stabby guy.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

If someone's parents named them Dake, then I'm gonna cut them a little slack. #TeamDake
.


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

Scott O said:


> If someone's parents named them Dake, then *I'm gonna cut them* a little slack. #TeamDake
> .


ISWYDT.....and I liked it!


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

I got this update from a local (Bellingham) radio station:

_this case is still pending jury trial due to two continuances. The defendant was held on $1,000 bail and that was posted 3/26/21 and he was released that day. A jury trial was scheduled for 7/6/21, but an order of continuance was filed 6/30/21. The trial was rescheduled for 9/13/21, but on 8/18/21 there was another order of continuance granted. The trial is now set for 11/1/21 at 9am._

Marcus


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

AliExpress has been listening to this thread, and is suggesting the right protective gear to pair with "Cycling Equipment"


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

The wonderful world of third parties reading your cookies.


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

I reached out again to the local (Bellingham WA) radio station KGMI for an update....here's what they told me:

_The trial has not started yet. It appears it’s set to begin at the beginning of next year, which we’ll be covering once it starts._

Marcus


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

marcus4333 said:


> I reached out again to the local (Bellingham WA) radio station KGMI for an update....here's what they told me:
> 
> _The trial has not started yet. It appears it’s set to begin at the beginning of next year, which we’ll be covering once it starts._
> 
> Marcus


Thanks for the update.


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

reached out to the folks at KGMI radio for another update, here's what they told me:

_Looks like late last week, subpoenas were issued for 2 witnesses to appear at the jury trial, which is looking at yet another new date in late May.

I’m not finding a concrete reason for why the trial date was pushed again._


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Pandemic related possibly. I’m sure two years of this crap set some things back, no?


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Yeah lots of court cases were delayed due to covid. I was supposed to be a juror last year and they didn't even send me a badge. They just said I was on stand by and I never even went in. Wife went through the same thing too!


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## Silentfoe (May 9, 2008)

Well, this could have been a great thread to keep following and I appreciated all of the updates. Now it'll probably be binned.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Can we all agree that it's wrong to cross state lines to stab a mountain biker? That is, unless he steals your best girl, then all bets are off.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Scott O said:


> Can we all agree that it's wrong to cross state lines to stab a mountain biker? That is, unless he steals your best girl, then all bets are off.


But Constitution...


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

I am not going to engage because I want to keep this thread open. I made my point and stand by it, if you feel you need to convince me otherwise you are free to send a PM. I am going to remove all the chatter not related to this stabbing.


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## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

That is hilarious. Klurejr makes a fool of himself but since he's a mod he can delete all the evidence and call it "chatter not related".


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

TylerVernon said:


> That is hilarious. Klurejr makes a fool of himself but since he's a mod he can delete all the evidence and call it "chatter not related".



Take the hint and allow this thread to return to the original topic.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Dang it what did I miss?

Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

TylerVernon said:


> That is hilarious. Klurejr makes a fool of himself but since he's a mod he can delete all the evidence and call it "chatter not related".


Borderline mod taunting. Consider this warning a free pass, nextime you will get a time out from the site. The only one being foolish is you.


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## RETROROCKS (Sep 25, 2004)

I always look to stop when hikers are around.. But actually a lot of times they just scoot off the trail and let me keep going. I make a point of always saying thanks and being polite to hikers.
And always be very careful of equestrians. Im sure we have all seen whenever theres an issue, its the bikers that lose access. Seems we are always low man on the totem pole!


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## Gasp4Air (Jun 5, 2009)

RETROROCKS said:


> I always look to stop when hikers are around.. But actually a lot of times they just scoot off the trail and let me keep going. I make a point of always saying thanks and being polite to hikers.
> And always be very careful of equestrians. Im sure we have all seen whenever theres an issue, its the bikers that lose access. *Seems we are always low man on the totem pole!*


A big part of that is because too many riders act like they own the trail, disregarding courtesy and safety of others. It doesn't take many to give mtb a bad rep.

I know how it is when you're cranking, blood pumping, running on adrenaline - don't want to slow down or give way. And if you're a bit of a d1ck to begin with, well, people get blown by while on a nice peaceful walk in the woods. I think most riders are decent, but as I said, it only takes one or two times to decide they're mostly jerks. When I hike, I share the trail, and expect riders to do do the same. But I keep a wary ear for the occasional jerk.


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## RETROROCKS (Sep 25, 2004)

Yup cant say ive never done that.. But i really try not too.


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## sqizzle (Aug 7, 2020)

It's amazing how well people behave when a GoPro is mounted on you. On one occasion, I was going uphill when a group of bikers, going downhill, warned me about a beligerant man up the trail. Soon enough I found a man, carrying a stick, coming my way. The trail was wide enough for both of us to pass. I went to the far right side, giving him plenty of room to pass. As I passed him, he appeared to swing his stick back. As soon as he saw my camera, he acted like a human again. I was so out of breath going up hill, that I don't think I could have put up much of a fight, had he attacked...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

sqizzle said:


> It's amazing how well people behave when a GoPro is mounted on you. On one occasion, I was going uphill when a group of bikers, going downhill, warned me about a beligerant man up the trail. Soon enough I found a man, carrying a stick, coming my way. The trail was wide enough for both of us to pass. I went to the far right side, giving him plenty of room to pass. As I passed him, he appeared to swing his stick back. As soon as he saw my camera, he acted like a human again. I was so out of breath going up hill, that I don't think I could have put up much of a fight, had he attacked...


Not here, crazy guy came out of the bushes with a sharpened stick (spear) and tried to assault me. Was able to dodge and then whip out my bear-spray. He was screaming all sorts of profanities and how he was going to kill me. Didn't want to tangle with bear spray though.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

sqizzle said:


> It's amazing how well people behave when a GoPro is mounted on you. On one occasion, I was going uphill when a group of bikers, going downhill, warned me about a beligerant man up the trail. Soon enough I found a man, carrying a stick, coming my way. The trail was wide enough for both of us to pass. I went to the far right side, giving him plenty of room to pass. As I passed him, he appeared to swing his stick back. As soon as he saw my camera, he acted like a human again. I was so out of breath going up hill, that I don't think I could have put up much of a fight, had he attacked...


Works good when getting pulled over, at least it has for me. I run my gopro when commuting on my motorcycle and over the course of 12+ years I have been pulled over 3 times, all by motorcycle officers and all took a look directly at my running gopro. I got warnings each time.


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## Klurejr (Oct 13, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Not here, crazy guy came out of the bushes with a sharpened stick (spear) and tried to assault me. Was able to dodge and then whip out my bear-spray. He was screaming all sorts of profanities and how he was going to kill me. Didn't want to tangle with bear spray though.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1985283


Alaskan Bush people?


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## Carl Mega (Jan 17, 2004)

^^that person has an extremely odd mouth. Call xfiles.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Jayem said:


> Not here, crazy guy came out of the bushes with a sharpened stick (spear) and tried to assault me. Was able to dodge and then whip out my bear-spray. He was screaming all sorts of profanities and how he was going to kill me. Didn't want to tangle with bear spray though.
> 
> 
> View attachment 1985283


Jayem almost got taken out by young Emperor Palpatine!


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## cookieMonster (Feb 23, 2004)

Someone recently installed a stringline between two trees on one of the trails close to my house; handlebar height. Hopefully they don't switch to piano wire any time soon. On this trail, which has existed for 100 years, people have put logs, rocks, etc. in blind corners for the last few years. It's not a popular bike trail, because it is mostly hike-a-bike for close to 2000' vert in less than 2 miles.. But someone is apparently really unhappy that a handful of bikers ride it. It's an up-and-back trail though, so most of the time we find all the stuff on the way up (lol).

It's getting more serious now with the stringlines. They installed it while my buddy was up on the trail the other day -- fortunately he saw it. Crazy assholes abound in our country, it would seem.


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## Scott O (Aug 5, 2004)

Klurejr said:


> Alaskan Bush people?


I think bear spray would be sufficient in stopping Bam, Matt, Gabe, and Rainy, but ironically not strong enough to stop Bear. (And Noah would be too smart to get sprayed)


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## marcus4333 (Dec 13, 2008)

latest update on the Dake Traphagen trial from our pals at KGMI Bellingham WA:

"_Looks like they set some new dates at the end of April. In a few weeks, they’re going to hold a status/omnibus hearing, meaning the defendant and their lawyer “…will indicate whether they will either go to trial, settle the case with a plea of guilty, or ask for extra time.” (Link)

Same document shows the jury trial date- as of this moment- is set for mid-July. That could change during the status/omnibus hearing._"

the wheels of justice turn slowly....


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

cookieMonster said:


> Someone recently installed a stringline between two trees on one of the trails close to my house; handlebar height. Hopefully they don't switch to piano wire any time soon. On this trail, which has existed for 100 years, people have put logs, rocks, etc. in blind corners for the last few years. It's not a popular bike trail, because it is mostly hike-a-bike for close to 2000' vert in less than 2 miles.. But someone is apparently really unhappy that a handful of bikers ride it. It's an up-and-back trail though, so most of the time we find all the stuff on the way up (lol).
> 
> It's getting more serious now with the stringlines. They installed it while my buddy was up on the trail the other day -- *fortunately he saw it*. Crazy assholes abound in our country, it would seem.


I don't know how well I could have maintained my composure having seen something like that. If you're setting out to deliberately hurt random people, no reason the same shouldn't happen to you when caught doing so.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Bikeworks said:


> I don't know how well I could have maintained my composure having seen something like that. If you're setting out to deliberately hurt random people, no reason the same shouldn't happen to you when caught doing so.


Catching them is the challenge


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