# Hayduke 27.5+ hardtail



## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Anxiously awaiting till September to bikepack 6000km (4000 miles) along the Cordillera de los Andes with Advocate Cycles' Hayduke 27.5+ hardtail 

Hayduke

Saludos,
Federico


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Looks decent for a trail bike, but I can think of better options for a 4000 mile tour in South America.


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Looks decent for a trail bike, but I can think of better options for a 4000 mile tour in South America.


Hola bikeny,

Next year I'm also planning to explore Bolivia & Ecuador off-road with this same bike (another 4000+ miles).... in your opinion, which ones are a better option?

Saludos,
Federico


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I sent Hayduke an email requesting pricing and additional option and got no response.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

TheirOnlyPortrait said:


> Hola bikeny,
> 
> Next year I'm also planning to explore Bolivia & Ecuador off-road with this same bike (another 4000+ miles).... in your opinion, which ones are a better option?
> 
> ...


I'm just saying it doesn't look like it's designed for that purpose. If I was doing that kind or ride, I would want a rigid fork with everything/bottle cage mounts, rack/fender mounts, everything mounts on the bottom of the downtube, 29+ tires on 35mm-40mm rims so I could run normal 29er tires in a pinch, longer chainstays, no dropper post, normal 100/135 QR wheels, and a standard threaded bottom bracket.

Something like a Surly ECR or a Jones Plus would be my first choice. Or the custom Waltworks that he is welded for me right now!:thumbsup:


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

PHeller said:


> I sent Hayduke an email requesting pricing and additional option and got no response.


Hola PHeller,

I'm sorry to hear you didn't get an answer to your mail from Advocate Cycles, yet. I know they had been traveling a lot (and they're designing another model, too) and that might be the reason for the delay...

On the other hand, I'm getting a Hayduke in September for my Project (Their Only Portrait. Portraits & Cycling) but I'm not 100% sure when that production lot will hit the stores.

I hope they get back to you soon and I'll let Tim know about your mail as soon as I get in touch with him 

Saludos,
Federico


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

bikeny said:


> I'm just saying it doesn't look like it's designed for that purpose. If I was doing that kind or ride, I would want a rigid fork with everything/bottle cage mounts, rack/fender mounts, everything mounts on the bottom of the downtube, 29+ tires on 35mm-40mm rims so I could run normal 29er tires in a pinch, longer chainstays, no dropper post, normal 100/135 QR wheels, and a standard threaded bottom bracket.
> 
> Something like a Surly ECR or a Jones Plus would be my first choice. Or the custom Waltworks that he is welded for me right now!:thumbsup:


Hola bikeny,

My Hayduke will have a 120mm rigid fork with a 100mm dynamo hub and everything/bottle cages mount & eyelets for racks 

For Argentina I'll be using 29x2.4 tires in 45mm rims and I'll be using 27.5x3.0 in 52mm rims for Bolivia!

Unfortunately Surly's ECR wasn't designed to use 29er tires, but I do LOVE their Krampus... the only problem is that I don't like how QBP handles their business and I LOVE that Advocate Cycles exists solely to create innovative bicycles and deliver 100% of profits from the company back to cycling advocacy efforts!

I also prefer Patagonia over other outdoor brands, even when I know their products aren't always the best option available 

Saludos,
Federico


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

TheirOnlyPortrait said:


> Hola bikeny,
> 
> My Hayduke will have a 120mm rigid fork with a 100mm dynamo hub and everything/bottle cages mount & eyelets for racks
> 
> ...


Thanks for adding this information, it gives a little more insight into your choices. Sounds like you have thought this through and have made some good decisions there. I applaud your support of companies like that and of your mission on these rides. I wish I had the time and drive to take on a project like this!

Best of luck on your adventures, and I look forward to reading more about them here!

Mark


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

bikeny said:


> Thanks for adding this information, it gives a little more insight into your choices. Sounds like you have thought this through and have made some good decisions there. I applaud your support of companies like that and of your mission on these rides. I wish I had the time and drive to take on a project like this!
> 
> Best of luck on your adventures, and I look forward to reading more about them here!
> 
> Mark


Hola Mark,

Thanks for your message!!! The first step for me was to realize the importance of time over money & material wealth... and I somehow found the courage to leave behind a career in Foreign Trade (15+ years) almost 4 years ago. 
Now the big problem isn't time but money, as it's not as easy in South America to get support from the community as it's in USA or Europe, but I'm determined to make a difference even if it's one print at a time!

Your can read about my 1st warm up trip at bikepacking & expedition's forum (http://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking-bike-expedition/bikepacking-dirt-jumper-955736.html)

With some luck (as the Hayduke won't be ready, yet) for my 2nd warm up trip I'll be bikepacking BR-319, a 600 miles trip through one of the best preserved areas of the Amazon jungle. This road was abandoned decades ago and was reclaimed by nature&#8230; the locals called it "caminho das Oncas" as it's still one of the few places where it's common to spot the endangered big cat (Jaguar).

And you can obviously check Their Only Portrait. Portraits & Cycling 

Saludos!
Federico


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## fjtort2 (Jul 26, 2010)

Pricing is on the website. Advocatecycles.com


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I think its awesome what they are doing but I asked them if they'd make drop-outs to fit a 29+ in the Hayduke and never got any response. They also don't list the price of frame only on the website either.


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## BluesDawg (Apr 8, 2007)

What would 29+ specific dropouts be? They come with either 142mm or 148mm dropouts. The price of $750 for frames has been reported in various stories. Act fast and you can get it for $650 (or $1650 for Ti).
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/advocate-cycles#/story


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

They make (or design) their own dropouts. My guess is that they could make dropouts that lengthen the chainstays to accommodate a large tire. 

They don't elude to making the frames in the USA, so they probably need a minimum order to produce the amount of frames necessary at a given price point. It will be interesting to see what happens after the initial order. Will they have left-overs? What happens if they meet the minimum? Will they give your money back?


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

PHeller said:


> I think its awesome what they are doing but I asked them if they'd make drop-outs to fit a 29+ in the Hayduke and never got any response. They also don't list the price of frame only on the website either.


Hola PHeller,

They updated their website and now they're showing prices for their frames and complete bikes... and as BluesDawg mentioned you can get them cheaper till the end of July through their crowdfunding campaign 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/advocate-cycles#/story

They're working on a third bike, but not sure if that will be a 29+

Saludos,
Federico


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Anyone pick one of these up yet? This looks like a great, well thought out ride!


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Hola Wilson,

I already did 1000 miles at Southern Patagonia with mine (titanium) and it's AWESOME!












































Saludos,
Federico
Their Only Portrait | Portraits & Cycling


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Been eyeing the "Plusbike" market and this might be the ticket for me. My 29 x 2.4 ardent SS Coconino has been beyond wonderful, but after 7 years I want some gears on occasion. Of everything out there currently, this seems like a very well thought out bike using this platform. I love steel(never ridden ti) and seems like a great build for the price. The geo seems very versatile. Kind of a one bike quiver bike! Thanks for the pics!


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Hola Wilson,

I LOVE riding this bike even with the extra-weight I'm carrying through Patagonia (I'd to add a rear rack with panniers to carry the Portable Photography Studio) facing crazy winds and bad road conditions (with a 1x10 setup). 
I think this bike can be used for ANYTHING just by selecting the right tire & rim combo 

Soon I'll be using a 29x2.4 & 35mm rims combo... and next year for Bolivia, I'll try 27.5x3.0 (WTB Trail Boss) with 45mm rims 

Saludos,
Federico
Their Only Portrait | Portraits & Cycling


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Theironlyportrait, what rims/tire combos have you tried on this bike so far? What drives your rim/tire combo choices above? I ride 29 x 2.4 on 35mm rims and its great! 27.5 x 3 is very appealing but not sure what rim size is ideal. If you have experience with 27.5 x 3 on a given rim size, your feedback and thoughts are appreciated.


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Hola Wilson!

I hope you had a lovely Christmas 

Unfortunately, so far, I only tried 29 x 2.4 (35mm rims) & 27.5 x 2.8 (45mm rims)... but I'm anxiously awaiting to try the new WTB Trail Boss (27.5 x 3.0) with the same 45mm rims I'm using with the TrailBlazers (WTB Scrapers)!

Saludos,
Federico
Their Only Portrait | Portraits & Cycling

PS: I choose the tire/rim combo depending on how much pavement I'll need to ride... more than 50% will get the Ardents, unless the gravel/trail part is really bad (as the one found at Southern Patagonia).


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

I picked mine up a couple weeks ago. I've moved from 29" to 29+ to now 27.5+. I still have my regular[really? regular? how in the hell is a fat bike now considered regular?] fat bike, this Hayduke, and a standard 29er I use for...not much.


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

~martini~ said:


> I picked mine up a couple weeks ago. I've moved from 29" to 29+ to now 27.5+. I still have my regular[really? regular? how in the hell is a fat bike now considered regular?] fat bike, this Hayduke, and a standard 29er I use for...not much.


Very clean looking bike! I want one... badly.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

~martini~ said:


> I picked mine up a couple weeks ago. I've moved from 29" to 29+ to now 27.5+.


Curious on your thoughts of 29+ vs 27.5+. I've heard some people say that 29+ is unmatched, others think its just too much.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

wilson1417 said:


> Been eyeing the "Plusbike" market and this might be the ticket for me. My 29 x 2.4 ardent SS Coconino has been beyond wonderful, but after 7 years I want some gears on occasion.


If I had the money I'd love to go a local builder (I'm in Flagstaff) and work with them one on one to build a bike. Steve would probably hate me though because I'd want to be a maybe a bit too involved. I think Coconino has built some 29+ models. Not getting any cheap, though.


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Hola,

Here are a few more photos of my Hayduke at Tierra del Fuego, Patagonia...























Saludos,
Federico
Their Only Portrait. Portraits & Cycling


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

PHeller said:


> If I had the money I'd love to go a local builder (I'm in Flagstaff) and work with them one on one to build a bike. Steve would probably hate me though because I'd want to be a maybe a bit too involved. I think Coconino has built some 29+ models. Not getting any cheap, though.


Hola PHeller,

I guess you'll love this post:

https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/2015/08/28/building-a-custom-meriwether-cycles-bikepacking-frame/

Saludos,
Federico
Their Only Portrait. Portraits & Cycling


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## ~martini~ (Dec 20, 2003)

PHeller said:


> Curious on your thoughts of 29+ vs 27.5+. I've heard some people say that 29+ is unmatched, others think its just too much.


Living in the upper midwest, our trails are generally of low elevation gain. We make up for that lack in twisty trails(generally). In my travels out west with the Krampus, it WAS just an awesome trail eating demon. A little harder to push on the ups, but on the downs, hang on. SUPER fun bike on the down. I chalk that up to both geometry and tires/traction. But at the home trails...it was only ok. I never really was able to feel the bike just liven up like it did out west. I still liked it, but it was missing the nimblness that my 29er had.

I initially scoffed at the b+ thing. I thought it was silly. Told Bob Poor as much too. I'm eating my words though. While I've only had chance to ride the Hayduke on dry trails for about 20 miles...it already feels like its going to eclipse the Krampus in the fun department. Especially on the local stuff. And I bet getting it out west, or up north is going to be a similar revelation, matching and besting the Krampus.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

~martini~ said:


> Living in the upper midwest, our trails are generally of low elevation gain. We make up for that lack in twisty trails(generally). In my travels out west with the Krampus, it WAS just an awesome trail eating demon. A little harder to push on the ups, but on the downs, hang on. SUPER fun bike on the down. I chalk that up to both geometry and tires/traction. But at the home trails...it was only ok. I never really was able to feel the bike just liven up like it did out west. I still liked it, but it was missing the nimblness that my 29er had.
> 
> I initially scoffed at the b+ thing. I thought it was silly. Told Bob Poor as much too. I'm eating my words though. While I've only had chance to ride the Hayduke on dry trails for about 20 miles...it already feels like its going to eclipse the Krampus in the fun department. Especially on the local stuff. And I bet getting it out west, or up north is going to be a similar revelation, matching and besting the Krampus.


Interesting, thanks for sharing your thoughts.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Try one of these instead Martini


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

This doesn't have too much to do w/ the Hayduke, other than the bike looks quite CHICHIS!

A buddy is building one up and I definitely have one on the radar come spring... The lines are quite nice and I think its versatility will be a choice ride for many a folk.

But... on the + size tires... I don't know if its fair to say that that addition to the bike world may be slightly akin to skis going from straight to shaped... Just a thought.

I too reside in the Midwest (by summer) and have my fastest trail times on + size tires. I've got a Pugs (set w/ drop bars) w/ 26x4 and 29+ set up as well as an Instigator set up 26+ - They rally the goods with predictability and flow. The connection to the trail is unparalleled and the fun factor does not disappoint. When I've hopped back on a regular set up, I feel twitchy and like I'll slide out on everything, which is ridiculous, b/c that's all we used to ride, but the + size tire just amps up that ability and confidence.

29+ is a RAD size the wheels roll FAST. 26+ is cool too, but I think I jumped the gun and would rather hop aboard the 27.5+ train for the speed and purchase on climbs; The only beater is when I migrate out west w/ my high altitude buddies, they seem to have an easier time on the ups (for a few weeks anyway). 

I'm holding out that Advocate will have some plates that can accommodate a 135 rear as I've got a CK SS hub that I am quite fond of and would like to xfer to that 27.5+ set up, Hayduke style.

Get your Advocate on!
-Cheers


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Anyone else get their hands on the Hayduke yet? Love to hear more about this bike...


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> Anyone else get their hands on the Hayduke yet? Love to hear more about this bike...


My Ti frame should arrive next week. Sadly I'll be waiting a while to get the fork (i.e. a 120 boost pike) and wheels. Gives me time to sell the old Salsa frame


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

So they're already starting to ship the Ti frames? That's good and bad to hear. I just heard my wallet groan...


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> So they're already starting to ship the Ti frames? That's good and bad to hear. I just heard my wallet groan...


Mine will be here on the 4th. Federico up above has been on his for weeks now. Perhaps we can talk him into providing a few more details about his riding experiences


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

sdemars said:


> My Ti frame should arrive next week. Sadly I'll be waiting a while to get the fork (i.e. a 120 boost pike) and wheels. Gives me time to sell the old Salsa frame


Hola sdemars,

I'm running Rock Shox's Reba RL 120mm (29" boost) with WTB's Scraper & Trailblazer for the last 3 months and I love this setup 

Saludos,
Federico
https://www.gofundme.com/theironlyportrait

PS: But I'll love to try it with the new Trail Boss 3.0, too!


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

sdemars said:


> Mine will be here on the 4th. Federico up above has been on his for weeks now. Perhaps we can talk him into providing a few more details about his riding experiences


Hola Sdemars,

I'd been riding a Ti prototype for the last 3 months and as I far as I know the only difference will be the rack eyelets... so let me know if you have any questions 

Have a great weekend!

Saludos,
Federico
https://www.gofundme.com/theironlyportrait


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## bosun120 (Jul 22, 2014)

TheirOnlyPortrait said:


> Hola,
> 
> Here are a few more photos of my Hayduke at Tierra del Fuego, Patagonia...
> 
> ...


Hi Federico,

I saw in your pictures that you are running a rear rack on your Hayduke frame. However, on the Hayduke produce page, I don't see any eyelets on the lower seatstay for racks/fenders (I can run a seatpost clamp w/ rack mounts for the rack arms). Is this because yours is a Ti prototype? Why did they remove these in the steel frame? I've emailed Tim @ Advocate about adding mounts to the production frame or even making a dropout option with rack mounts (ie. Alternator dropouts). I would like the option to run a rear rack as I want to be able to configure the bike as a daily commuter when not bikepacking/MTB.

Thanks.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

I have an Old Man Mountain rack for my Mukluk Ti that attaches to the top bolt of where my alternator dropouts pivot. The rack uses a hefty adapter and a longer replacement bolt. There are other racks that attach in the same manner, and I think it would work well with the dropout bolts on the Hayduke.


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

bosun120 said:


> Hi Federico,
> 
> I saw in your pictures that you are running a rear rack on your Hayduke frame. However, on the Hayduke produce page, I don't see any eyelets on the lower seatstay for racks/fenders (I can run a seatpost clamp w/ rack mounts for the rack arms). Is this because yours is a Ti prototype? Why did they remove these in the steel frame? I've emailed Tim @ Advocate about adding mounts to the production frame or even making a dropout option with rack mounts (ie. Alternator dropouts). I would like the option to run a rear rack as I want to be able to configure the bike as a daily commuter when not bikepacking/MTB.
> 
> Thanks.


Hola bosun120,

Actually I think is just the opposite... my Ti frame doesn't have eyelets for racks because is a prototype, but as far as I know the production models will have 

I just attached my DIY rear rack to the alternator dropout's top bolt (with larger bolts) and to the seatpost collar!

Saludos,
Federico
https://www.gofundme.com/theironlyportrait


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

Welnic said:


> I have an Old Man Mountain rack for my Mukluk Ti that attaches to the top bolt of where my alternator dropouts pivot. The rack uses a hefty adapter and a longer replacement bolt. There are other racks that attach in the same manner, and I think it would work well with the dropout bolts on the Hayduke.


Hola Welnic,

I rode mine for 1000 miles at Southern Patagonia (carrying a portable photography studio) and so far is working perfectly 

Saludos,
Federico
https://www.gofundme.com/theironlyportrait


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## bosun120 (Jul 22, 2014)

TheirOnlyPortrait said:


> Hola bosun120,
> 
> Actually I think is just the opposite... my Ti frame doesn't have eyelets for racks because is a prototype, but as far as I know the production models will have
> 
> ...


Thanks Federico for the detailed pics! By "larger bolts" do you mean you just used longer length bolts (M5 thread), and the dropout attachment top bolts are M5 thread as well (like nearly every other rack mount out there). BTW, for your upper rack mounts you can get a seatpost clamp with rack mounts like this Problem Solvers one.

Looking at the 1st pic below of the Hayduke production frame dropouts, it seems like there are no dedicated points for rack mounts on the lower seatstay. I've emailed Tim about this but haven't gotten a reply yet. 
Just to be clear, I'm not looking to do any fully-loaded touring (80 lbs on a rack) with the Hayduke, I know that's not what this frame was built for and would be better suited for frame/seatbags. However it would nice to have the option to run a rear rack w/ 2 small (10-15L) panniers for quick errands or commuting.










Comparing this to a pic of the upcoming Lorax dropouts (if you look at brake side), there are rack/fender mounts located on the inside area of the seatstays. Dunno why they didn't include these on the Hayduke frame too.










BTW Federico, that's a really cool project you are working on with helping people create long-lasting memories. I'll see what I can do to chip in!


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

Here is a picture of my rack. It has longer bolts that hold on the top of the alternator dropouts, and an aluminum spacer between the rack mount and the frame so the rack mount doesn't clamp onto the frame.


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## bosun120 (Jul 22, 2014)

Welnic said:


> Here is a picture of my rack. It has longer bolts that hold on the top of the alternator dropouts, and an aluminum spacer between the rack mount and the frame so the rack mount doesn't clamp onto the frame.
> 
> View attachment 1047609


Cool...thanks for the pics. Does anyone know if Alternator dropouts can fit on the Hayduke? Their design looks very similar to the Portage system and AFAIK Tim was a designer at Salsa before starting Advocate.


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

bosun120 said:


> Cool...thanks for the pics. Does anyone know if Alternator dropouts can fit on the Hayduke? Their design looks very similar to the Portage system and AFAIK Tim was a designer at Salsa before starting Advocate.


I'm not sure but think it's unlikely. He'd have to deal with patent infringements for one, but the bigger issue is that the Hayduke is really a Boost rear end. The 148 plates appear "normal" while the 142 plates are thicker.

Note the different plate thickness in the pictures of the two dropouts: SOC15: Advocate Cycles Builds New Plus Size Bikes and Advocacy Based Business Model - Bikerumor


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

*Almost finished!*


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## btohlen (Feb 9, 2016)

TheirOnlyPortrait said:


> Hola bosun120,
> 
> Actually I think is just the opposite... my Ti frame doesn't have eyelets for racks because is a prototype, but as far as I know the production models will have


Federico,
How is the ride quality of the ti frame with all that gear. Do you find it very flexible?

I just spoke with the nice people over at Advocate cycles, and they confirmed that the Hayduke does NOT have any rack eyelets or brazeons.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Ok, I'm about to take the plunge on a stock-build Hayduke, but I'd love to hear some complete bike weights from those who already have them. I realize I'm buying a steel-framed + bike, so I'm not expecting an uber-lightweight rig by any means, I'm just not finding any posted weights for the complete bike anywhere, and I'd like to have an idea. Thanks.


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## Ralph (Aug 22, 2014)

Smithhammer said:


> Ok, I'm about to take the plunge on a stock-build Hayduke, but I'd love to hear some complete bike weights from those who already have them. I realize I'm buying a steel-framed + bike, so I'm not expecting an uber-lightweight rig by any means, I'm just not finding any posted weights for the complete bike anywhere, and I'd like to have an idea. Thanks.


Size large, with pedals, set up tubeless on WTB Scraper rim with WTB Bridger tire (great tire, but heavy), Yari 140mm fork, pump, spare tube, and levers in top tube bag - 34 pounds.

Initial ride was 11 miles and over 2500 feet of climbing on loose single track with some tight switch-backs. It rides, climbs and feels much lighter. Handled the switchbacks with no issues.

Overall very pleased with bike. The welds and paint are excellent.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Thanks for the info. "It climbs and feels much lighter" seems to be a consistent observation in the reviews I've read. 

Wife just got a Watchman and loves it. I'm impressed with Advocate, for a variety of reasons. :thumbsup:


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Here's mine. Not much real trail time as it's winter here. But, the few rides I did get on it were fantastic.

I've made some build updates since this pic. Will post a new reply or thread once I can get some fresh pics.

Mine weighs in at 28ish pounds.


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

ReXTless what size is it?


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

wilson1417 said:


> ReXTless what size is it?


It's a medium.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Looking forward to seeing your build updates, ReXTless. 

I ordered my blue med. Hayduke today. :thumbsup:


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Smithhammer said:


> Looking forward to seeing your build updates, ReXTless.
> 
> I ordered my blue med. Hayduke today. :thumbsup:


Great news. Congrats! Post up some pics and impressions when you have it.


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## joshc1973 (Aug 24, 2009)

*Hayduke*

Here is a picture of my Hayduke. It is a large frame. It is the stock build with the exception of the seat post, bars and stem.

I have about 50 trail miles on it so far and I am really enjoying it. It is quite a departure from my OS Blackbuck, which was fully ridged and SS. I managed to tear the rear tire last weekend, so I may need something tougher for how/where I ride, but other than that everything has been great.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

ReXTless said:


> Great news. Congrats! Post up some pics and impressions when you have it.


Will do. I likely won't even be able to ride it for another month or two where I live, but my LBS said they weren't showing very many available at this time, and my fear is that they are going to sell fast, and with Advocate being a pretty small company, I might be SOL for the whole season. Or, at least that's how I pitched it to my Better Half.


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## btohlen (Feb 9, 2016)

Just built up a completely stock Large with Shimano XT pedals and it came in at 31 lbs. Went tubeless today, added a H2O cage and its right at 30 lbs now. 

First two rides found me very happy with the purchase. It feels quicker in corners than both the Krampus and Remedy 9 29. Climbs quite well for its weight. Might have to upgrade the fork for something a little more stout though. The Reba is a great XC fork, but for harder, all mountain riding, its a little floppy.


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

btohlen said:


> ... Might have to upgrade the fork for something a little more stout though. The Reba is a great XC fork, but for harder, all mountain riding, its a little floppy.


Pike. 
All. Day. Long.

Wheels come in for mine tomorrow. I'll have pix by the end of the weekend


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Two recent reviews:

Advocate Cycles "Hayduke" Bike Review - Rodda Trials

Project 27plus Part 3 ? Hayduke lives!
(not as recent, but still)


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Second ride on the Hayduke Ti and it continues to impress.




























X01 build. NN 2.8 rear 3.0 front, mostly syntace kit, Nox Composites Kitsuma rims on i9 hubs with CX rays. 25.25lbs


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Another great review of this bike...
Advocate Cycles Hayduke: 27.5+ Steel Hardtail Review - Bikepackers Magazine


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

My new Hayduke arrived today. Just had enough time to take it for a spin around the 'hood, but it will be getting dirty this weekend...


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Spent about 4 hours on the Hayduke today, on a variety of singletrack from bone dry/flowy to wet/muddy to loose and rocky. A few observations:

•I'm a little over 5'10" and I was initially on the fence about whether to get a med. or a large. Went with the med. and I'm glad I did. The fit is perfect, and yet I still feel like I have plenty of room to move around the bike as needed.

• SRAM nailed it with the GX 1x11. The gear range is really usable, and the shifting is as crisp and efficient as I could hope for. Every shift today was spot-on.

• The WTB Scraper and Panaracer FBN looks like a pretty hefty setup. But it's actually a surprisingly light rim/tire combo, esp. after having converted to tubeless. It truly spins up with no more effort than I would apply to a "normal" tire.

• Others have already commented on how, while it isn't a super-light bike (mine is coming in at 29lbs), it feels surprisingly light and nimble when ridden. I would totally agree. In fact, I was continually amazed throughout today's ride at how nimble, light and maneuverable the Hayduke felt. I definitely attribute some of this to Reynolds 725. Not all steel is the same, and this is some of the best steel I've ridden.










• This bike can climb like a mountain goat. I stood up and mashed on a few climbs, to see if I could get the rear wheel to break loose and it never did. While the slack geo makes it a really adept descender, there is more going on here than meets the eye. Even so, old habits die hard, and it took me a bit to realize that there was no reason to weight my rear wheel when climbing. Keeping weight over the front wheel made all the difference, without ever feeling like it was uncomfortable to do so. Just sit, lean forward and pedal, and the Hayduke will keep climbing as long as you can.

• Through everything today, the bike was just so solidly planted. It gripped everything it rode over, went everywhere I told it to, and even on "chattery" loose rock, it just never wavered at all. On terrain that would have had the rear end of a "normal" hardtail kicking and deflecting, this rig laughed it off.

• I really do think that 27.5+ changes what most people think a hardtail is, and what it is capable of, in a _big_ way. Friends who have given me weird looks in response to why I bought this bike are, in my opinion, thinking in terms of what a traditional hardtail _used_ to be, and this is not that. Until you ride a bike like this, it's hard to understand.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

Good write-up. How did the FBN's set up tubeless? They're not T-less ready, right?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

SteveF said:


> Good write-up. How did the FBN's set up tubeless? They're not T-less ready, right?


Easily. I used WTB tape to set the rims up. For not being a tubeless-ready tire, the FBN fits very tightly on the Scraper. I didn't even have to do my usual ritual with fatter tires of pumping it up first with the tube in, and then breaking the bead on one side and removing the tube - I just mounted the tire, pumped it up with a high-volume floor pump, squirted a few ounces of Stan's in, let the wheel sit horizontally on each side for a while and went for a ride.


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## Pedaling Nowhere (Jul 18, 2005)

In case you missed Lael Wilcox's review, they just finished the Baja Divide... here's her detailed review: Advocate Cycles Hayduke Review - BIKEPACKING.com


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## trailnimal (Mar 1, 2004)

They need to add rack and down tube mounts for proper BP application. 
same geo as specialized fuse, slightly less slack, same low BB.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

trailnimal said:


> They need to add rack and down tube mounts for proper BP application.
> same geo as specialized fuse, slightly less slack, same low BB.


Agreed on the downtube mounts - that would be handy.

But I can't imagine ever putting a rack on this bike. For the terrain that it's intended for, I think it would just be asking for problems, and soft bags work so much better on the rough stuff.


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## trailnimal (Mar 1, 2004)

I suspect the Baja is not so much technical singletrack or narrow tight stuff, and the B+ is being used as a long distance sand and washboard tamer. In these trips loading it up more could be a benefit. Also, folks who need the small frame, and thus reduced frame bag capacity are forced to look at panniers again.


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## slcdawg (Jul 28, 2003)

Anyone build up a Hayduke with 29" wheels? Most of the reviews I've seen are for the 27.5+ wheels. I broke my 29er frame and my LBS suggested the Hayduke as a replacement. I can use my old parts (135 spacing on the rear), and upgrade to Boost and 27.5+ later. Very appealing!

I'm currently running a 3x9 drivetrain. Could I run 27.5+ with this drivetrain, or would I need a different (boost) crank? That would be nice, to swap out just the wheels to get 2 completely different types of rides.


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

slcdawg Do it!!! those are all little etails you can work out when the time comes!


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Smithhammer said:


> Spent about 4 hours on the Hayduke today, on a variety of singletrack from bone dry/flowy to wet/muddy to loose and rocky. A few observations:
> 
> •I'm a little over 5'10" and I was initially on the fence about whether to get a med. or a large. Went with the med. and I'm glad I did. The fit is perfect, and yet I still feel like I have plenty of room to move around the bike as needed.
> 
> ...


Where are you located? Terrain looks like mine in Boise.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> On terrain that would have had the rear end of a "normal" hardtail kicking and deflecting,


This. One of the first things I noticed a few years ago after experiencing 15ish psi on a HT bike I have owned for a long time, and am very familiar with, was how linear the rear end tracked going over roots and rocks. Along with enhanced traction it makes riding it even more fun than ever.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

garcia said:


> Where are you located? Terrain looks like mine in Boise.


That ride was just outside of Pocatello, but I live up in Teton Valley. Sometimes I'm jealous of how much longer of a riding season you guys have down there in Boise.

Things I changed from the stock build immediately:

WTB Rocket Team saddle
Race Face Turbine 3/4 bar
Thomson X4 stem
Tubeless conversion

Recent Hayduke changes include:

Ergon GA2 grips
Race Face 'Next' carbon post
Fyxation Mesa MP pedals

Can't see changing much else at this point. It's pretty much perfect.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

slcdawg said:


> Anyone build up a Hayduke with 29" wheels? Most of the reviews I've seen are for the 27.5+ wheels. I broke my 29er frame and my LBS suggested the Hayduke as a replacement. I can use my old parts (135 spacing on the rear), and upgrade to Boost and 27.5+ later. Very appealing!
> 
> I'm currently running a 3x9 drivetrain. Could I run 27.5+ with this drivetrain, or would I need a different (boost) crank? That would be nice, to swap out just the wheels to get 2 completely different types of rides.


Sounds like a good plan to me, but there are a few things to think about. First, the Hayduke can accommodate a 142mm rear wheel with the right dropouts. You say your wheel is 135mm. If the hub is convertible to 142mm, than you are good to go there. As for the front, it depends on what fork you get. Assuming you want to run 27+ at some point, it makes sense to get a Boost fork right away. Depending on what front hub you have, you may be able to buy adapters to make a 100mm wheel work in a 110mm fork.

Also, I think you will have to ditch the 3X crank. You don't really need a Boost crank, but I think you will have to switch to a 2X or 1X setup. I don't know what crank you have, but some with removable spiders can be easily converted.


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## slcdawg (Jul 28, 2003)

Do you mean remove the big ring on my 3x crank and run it as a 2x9? I can do that on my crank.



bikeny said:


> Also, I think you will have to ditch the 3X crank. You don't really need a Boost crank, but I think you will have to switch to a 2X or 1X setup. I don't know what crank you have, but some with removable spiders can be easily converted.


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## bosun120 (Jul 22, 2014)

What stem length is everybody running on the Hayduke(s)? I'm thinking of running a super short stem (<40mm) and wide bars (740mm+) when I eventually get around to my build (think Easton Havoc specs), would this be something appropriate for this bike? Or in your experience, would it be better suited for a more traditional XC/Trail cockpit combo (55mm+ stem)?


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## Parenzo (Nov 7, 2015)

Does anyone know where Ti frames are made?

Cheers


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

bosun120 said:


> What stem length is everybody running on the Hayduke(s)? I'm thinking of running a super short stem (<40mm) and wide bars (740mm+) when I eventually get around to my build (think Easton Havoc specs), would this be something appropriate for this bike? Or in your experience, would it be better suited for a more traditional XC/Trail cockpit combo (55mm+ stem)?


Personally, I'm running a 70mm stem with a 725 bar on a medium frame, but I don't see any reason you couldn't go with a shorter stem and a wider bar, if that what fits you. Certainly wouldn't be an issue as far as the geo of the bike goes.



Parenzo said:


> Does anyone know where Ti frames are made?


Ti-wan, I believe. The ti frame that I was able to check out at my LBS looked really well done. Very nice clean welds.


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> Personally, I'm running a 70mm stem with a 725 bar on a medium frame, but I don't see any reason you couldn't go with a shorter stem and a wider bar, if that what fits you. Certainly wouldn't be an issue as far as the geo of the bike goes.


Same here. 70 is a good balance for me between the super shorty of a DH and enduro rig and a 80-100 for a true XC rig. allows me to get rad and rowdy but also climb uphill and ride all day without issue.



Smithhammer said:


> Ti-wan, I believe. The ti frame that I was able to check out at my LBS looked really well done. Very nice clean welds.


This ^
Welds are on par with Salsa Ti. It's no Moots or NAHBS contender but they did a good job for the cost. I have a Ti frame and I'm happy with it.


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## Welnic (Feb 6, 2013)

bosun120 said:


> What stem length is everybody running on the Hayduke(s)? I'm thinking of running a super short stem (<40mm) and wide bars (740mm+) when I eventually get around to my build (think Easton Havoc specs), would this be something appropriate for this bike? Or in your experience, would it be better suited for a more traditional XC/Trail cockpit combo (55mm+ stem)?


I like running my bars a little wider on both Fat and Plus bikes since there is more tire to wrestle with. And once you put a wider bar on the stem should be shorter.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

bosun120 said:


> What stem length is everybody running on the Hayduke(s)? I'm thinking of running a super short stem (<40mm) and wide bars (740mm+) when I eventually get around to my build (think Easton Havoc specs), would this be something appropriate for this bike? Or in your experience, would it be better suited for a more traditional XC/Trail cockpit combo (55mm+ stem)?


740 bars on a 70mm stem here. Medium frame.


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## Coach417 (Jul 13, 2007)

Looking for input/thoughts about the "feel" of the bike. It seems most of you are running B+ wheels and tires. I am thinking of getting rid of my Niner ROS9 as I just can't get it to feel right. My Ripley has a very playful BMX feel. My ROS feels tall and tippy. Was thinking of trying a different SS frame to get a more "in the bike" feel. Any thoughts?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Coach417 said:


> Looking for input/thoughts about the "feel" of the bike. It seems most of you are running B+ wheels and tires. I am thinking of getting rid of my Niner ROS9 as I just can't get it to feel right. My Ripley has a very playful BMX feel. My ROS feels tall and tippy. Was thinking of trying a different SS frame to get a more "in the bike" feel. Any thoughts?


I'd say that the Hayduke is more on the "playful, BMX-feel" end of the spectrum, without sacrificing cross-country abilities. Which is interesting, because numbers-wise, the ROS 9 isn't all that different on paper. But I wouldn't describe the Hayduke as feeling "tall and tippy" at all.


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## Klucks (Sep 20, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> I'd say that the Hayduke is more on the "playful, BMX-feel" end of the spectrum, without sacrificing cross-country abilities. Which is interesting, because numbers-wise, the ROS 9 isn't all that different on paper. But I wouldn't describe the Hayduke as feeling "tall and tippy" at all.


It is more fun and trippy than anything... Hayduke takes flight out at Oil Well Flats in Canyon City.

In all seriousness, my FS bike is an Ibis Mojo HD, and the Hayduke was dare I say more fun to ride than the Ibis. It didn't feel "tippy" at all. Eats up chunk almost as well as a dialed in FS.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Haha...

This bike does have some seriously unicorn/mythical qualities to it, and I'm still trying to wrap my head around what "it" is exactly. But at the risk of over-thinking it, suffice to say it is just a ****ing _blast._


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## MrkT (Jan 12, 2016)

Quick question: been doing a lot of reading up on the Hayduke online, and haven't seen any mention of Rohloff compatibility. It can run a 142 rear--shouldn't a Rohloff work on the Hayduke or am I missing something?


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## mtb_tico (Mar 9, 2007)

Hey guys! I'm planning to purchase a Hayduke in the near future. I've enjoyed following this thread and hearing about your bikes and experiences. 

Would any of you happen to know the weight difference between the Ti frame and Cromo frame? 

Thanks.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Great weekend on the Hayduke outside Salmon, ID.

Loose and rocky, buffed and flowy, torn to hell by cattle, patches of snow- it handled it all superbly.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> Great weekend on the Hayduke outside Salmon, ID.
> 
> Loose and rocky, buffed and flowy, torn to hell by cattle, patches of snow- it handled it all superbly.


Looks like a nice ride! 
Another Boisean here. Maybe we'll have a meet up sometime...
Listen, I know this is a Hayduke thread, but would you do me a favor and take a look at your wife's Watchman and see if you think a 29+ would fit? I sent Tim a Facebook message, and I'm sure he'll get back to me, but I haven't heard yet.
Thanks,

Los


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

sslos said:


> ...would you do me a favor and take a look at your wife's Watchman and see if you think a 29+ would fit?


Sure. I don't see why a 29+ wouldn't fit the frame/fork, but I would wonder what it would do to the BB height?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> Sure. I don't see why a 29+ wouldn't fit the frame/fork, but I would wonder what it would do to the BB height?


Yeah, that's part of my reticence. 
But it has a 65mm BB drop, which is actually 5mm more than the Krampus, and 2mm more than the ROS 9+!
I dunno. They might very well be debuting a 29+ at Sea Otter. I might just be a little impatient!

Los


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

I guarantee the Watchman will work with 29+. I have three friends that have their set up that way for the summer; one each in WA, CO and NE. 

End of Hayduke thread hijack.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

sdemars said:


> I guarantee the Watchman will work with 29+. I have three friends that have their set up that way for the summer; one each in WA, CO and NE.
> 
> End of Hayduke thread hijack.


Sorry about the hijacking. I am Cuban, after all...
Nice looking Ti build, BTW!

Los


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## Klucks (Sep 20, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> Great weekend on the Hayduke outside Salmon, ID.
> 
> Loose and rocky, buffed and flowy, torn to hell by cattle, patches of snow- it handled it all superbly.


Hey Smithhammer - Are you riding your Hayduke with the Fat B Nimbles that came with the bike? If so, are you setup tubeless, and have you had issues with the tires? I am finding I am tearing holes through the tires and the sealant does not seal them up. Been riding the bike for a month now, and I have torn two holes through the tires and got a pinch flat on the 2nd ride with a tube in. :madmax:


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Klucks said:


> Hey Smithhammer - Are you riding your Hayduke with the Fat B Nimbles that came with the bike? If so, are you setup tubeless, and have you had issues with the tires? I am finding I am tearing holes through the tires and the sealant does not seal them up. Been riding the bike for a month now, and I have torn two holes through the tires and got a pinch flat on the 2nd ride with a tube in. :madmax:


Not Smithhammer here, but I've been riding the Schwalbe Nobby Nic, and Rocket Ron snakeskin version for several months with no issues (I have NN front and rear, wife has NN front RoRo rear). Seats tubeless fine and shrugs off the sharp lava rocks we have in Central Oregon.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Klucks - 

Yanking those tubes out was the first thing I did as soon as I got the bike home. And the tubeless setup with the Scrapers/FBNs was a piece of cake. Haven't had any problems with them so far at all, and I'm pretty happy with their performance at 16/17 psi (aside from mud). 

When you say you are "tearing holes through the tires" are the holes in the sidewalls?


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

I just put on a set of Nobby Nic 3.0. Maybe not very many have elected to do so but running a SRAM GX 2x Boost crankset 24/36 and I have a slight rub between the bottom part of the chain and tire when I shift to the granny gear (24x42).

I probably wont be using it that gear very often but that has prompt me to order a Rocket Ron 2.8 to put in the rear. Well that and the fact that I have a 2 Trailstar NN and I'm not sure I want to run the Trailstar compound in the rear for very long.


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## Klucks (Sep 20, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> Klucks -
> 
> Yanking those tubes out was the first thing I did as soon as I got the bike home. And the tubeless setup with the Scrapers/FBNs was a piece of cake. Haven't had any problems with them so far at all, and I'm pretty happy with their performance at 16/17 psi (aside from mud).
> 
> When you say you are "tearing holes through the tires" are the holes in the sidewalls?


Yes - Two holes in the sidewalls in <10 rides thus far. They weren't huge, but big enough that all the sealant came out of the tire without plugging them. I've also had some issues with the base of the knobs puncturing that the sealant has sealed.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Klucks said:


> Yes - Two holes in the sidewalls in <10 rides thus far. They weren't huge, but big enough that all the sealant came out of the tire without plugging them. I've also had some issues with the base of the knobs puncturing that the sealant has sealed.


FBNs are one of the lightest B+ tires out there, and part of that is no doubt achieved by thinner sidewalls.

I did a bunch of riding two weekends ago in a place with lots of sharp rocks, cactus, etc. and my FBNs rolled through it all just fine. But if you're finding persistent problems with them, you should probably check out a beefier tire.


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

Got my first ride in. Felt good from the get go. Here's my setup. BTW, I'm 5'11", 200 lbs:
- Large Cromo frame
- 780 handle bar
- 80mm stem
- Fox Float 34
- Sram GX 24-36 cranks shifters, derailleurs, 10-42 cassette
- Shimano XT M8000 brakes
- RM750C carbon rims (43mm inside, 50mm outside) on Hadley Boost hubs
- Nobby Nic 3.0 Trailstar front and rear
- Thomson covert elite dropper post

Weights in at about 27 lbs.

Couple of impressions from my first ride:
- The plus size really does help. Downhill for sure but even uphill was quite useful here and there.
- I know Scott says the plus size only adds 1% in rolling resistance but I can definitely feel my uphill generally more tiring with that setup. I'll probably switch to a Rocket Ron 2.8 Pacestar in the rear soon.
- It's funny how the steel frame in combination with the big cushy 3.0 tires did not make me feel like I needed a rear suspension. Handled the downhill beautifully.

Bottom line, loved the geometry and loved the bike. Cant believe they nailed it on their first bike ever produced!


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

adagioca said:


> Cant believe they nailed on their first bike ever produced!


New company, but Tim Krueger and his wife are not new to the industry. He used to work for Salsa and had a hand in designing a few bikes, most recently the Blackborrow. Some have called the Watchman the steel Blackborrow. I think he had a good idea and the experience to make it real.

Also, coming from a steel loving background, it's not surprising to me that the ride comfort is much better than aluminum. I already have a Reynold's 725 and 853 mtb steel frames and they are much better at cutting out the chatter I get when riding my Framed MN despite the tires being half as big with more psi. No real extended experience with FS, but also not surprised.

Enjoy that ride, I'm jealous.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Some recent Hayduke upgrades:

The RF Turbine bar (725mm) wasn't cutting it for me on this bike, so I swapped it out for the RF Atlas instead (780mm). Much better. Went with a shorter Atlas stem as well.










Brooks C17 and RF Next post, a wicked comfy combo:










Continuing to have stupid amounts of fun on the Hayduke. My neighbor finally retired his SS Karate Monkey for a new Hayduke after test riding mine as well. And the LBS just built one up for another local. Seems to be catching...


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Smithhammer said:


> Some recent Hayduke upgrades:
> 
> The RF Turbine bar (725mm) wasn't cutting it for me on this bike, so I swapped it out for the RF Atlas instead (780mm). Much better. Went with a shorter Atlas stem as well.
> 
> ...


Looks awesome, and glad you're enjoying it. Full bike pics plzzzz. Need more bike porn


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## mtb_tico (Mar 9, 2007)

I also recently joined the Hayduke club! Had my first rip on it today. Gotta say, its a pretty fun bike. Tracks well and playful. 

Immediate swaps include installing the WTB Trail Boss tires (tubeless), RF Next 760mm bar with 60mm Easton Haven stem, and Thomson seatpost with Chromag Trailmaster saddle.
Those Pana Fat B Nimble tires wouldn't last a day where I ride. Stock Race Face components are damn heavy. 

Been riding a Mukluk during the winter months. The geo of the two bikes is almost identical (Not surprised!).


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Full bike pics plzzzz. Need more bike porn


Will do. :thumbsup:



mtb_tico said:


> Immediate swaps include installing the WTB Trail Boss tires (tubeless)...
> Those Pana Fat B Nimble tires wouldn't last a day where I ride. Stock Race Face components are damn heavy.


Congrats on the new Hayduke!

I've had the nagging feeling lately that I'm on borrowed time with the stock FBNs as well. And the more I ride them, I'm getting a sense for how their advantages also come with costs. I've got a fresh pair of Trail Boss 3.0s on the way.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

tfinator said:


> Full bike pics plzzzz.


Here ya go. Swapped the WTB Volt saddle back on. Almost as comfortable as the C17 and nearly half a pound lighter. The Brooks will go back on my Blackborow.


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## drog (Sep 18, 2005)

Does anyone have measurements of BB height with different tire setups? Or any ride impressions with 29 wheels


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Very slick color combo Smith. You should get that blue jean special C17 and take off that Volt, but only if you want to.


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Spent a LONG time in the saddle last weekend. 78 miles of mostly singletrack. It's funny that the forest roads were the slowest part of the route! You can see a line on the map but you never know what you'll run into when you get out there! ...like that 5 miles of sandy whoops filled moto trail. It was either that or a dusty sandy road with no shade. My speed was easily twice as fast on the real singletrack. It's all a good adventure though! Love this bike and the places it takes me! :thumbsup:

Pre-ride after a little bucket and brush








Post ride. Beer and burger time!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

dbhammercycle said:


> Very slick color combo Smith. You should get that blue jean special C17 and take off that Volt, but only if you want to.


Thanks, man. I may just have to put the Brooks back on, just because dammit, _I love that saddle._ But since I just bought a B17 for the Better Half for her b-day recently, I may have to hold off on springing for another, blue C17. At least for a while....


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

So, I'm ordering my Hayduke on Monday (finally!)
In order to save a few bucks for now, I'm planning on using my wheels (with a front hub swap) from my current 29". 
Fox 34 130mm FIT4, XT 1x11 and brakes, 9point8 dropper... Undecided on 27+ wheels/tires.
Anyway, I guess I'll be a good boy and wait to post pics until I plus this thing!

Los


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Congrats man! Let us know your thoughts compared to the ol Nimble 9 (after a little saddle time of course).


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

sslos said:


> So, I'm ordering my Hayduke on Monday (finally!)


Sweet! Looking forward to seeing it.

New review of the Hayduke on Dirt Rag:

Review: Advocate Cycles Hayduke


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Oh, BTW... Dirt Rag reviewed the Hayduke.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> Sweet! Looking forward to seeing it.
> 
> New review of the Hayduke on Dirt Rag:
> 
> Review: Advocate Cycles Hayduke


D'oh! Beat me to the punch!
Thanks, nitrousjunkie and Smithhammer! I'll be sure and update with the newness!

Los


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## edved37 (Dec 8, 2014)

I've got the Hayduke bug and am super temped to pull the trigger on one. Right now I ride a steal Jones with truss fork with 29+ up front and a Blackborow 4.8 fatty in the winter. Being a light guys(145#) the fatbike seems like overkill for Winters here in Northern Illinois. Thinking I could rock a Hayduke in the winter and be a good complement to my Jones for summer single track fun. What do you owners think? Also is everyone that got the stock build fairly happy with it? I know stem, seatpost and bars would likely change.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Ditched the FBNs for new Trail Bosses and swapped out the rear 160 rotor for a 180. Both are worthy upgrades.

I've got a few good singletrack rides on the Trail Bosses at this point - good mix of dry, loose conditions and damp/tacky, with the usual roots and rocks thrown in. While nowhere near as light as the FBNs, the TBs have a more rounded profile, and beefier shoulders (and they don't have paper-thin sidewalls that I feel like I'm going to rip at any moment). The FBNs always felt like they had a pretty 'square' profile to them, and it was especially evident when you leaned them too far. I can lean the TBs over as far as I'm willing to go and they just keep grabbing. Surprisingly smooth and fast rolling on hardpack as well, for what they are. Tubeless set up was a breeze on Scrapers. Currently running them at 13psi front/14psi rear.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> Ditched the FBNs for new Trail Bosses and swapped out the rear 160 rotor for a 180. Both are worthy upgrades.
> 
> I've got a few good singletrack rides on the Trail Bosses at this point - good mix of dry, loose conditions and damp/tacky, with the usual roots and rocks thrown in. While nowhere near as light as the FBNs, the TBs have a more rounded profile, and beefier shoulders (and they don't have paper-thin sidewalls that I feel like I'm going to rip at any moment). The FBNs always felt like they had a pretty 'square' profile to them, and it was especially evident when you leaned them too far. I can lean the TBs over as far as I'm willing to go and they just keep grabbing. Surprisingly smooth and fast rolling on hardpack as well, for what they are. Tubeless set up was a breeze on Scrapers. Currently running them at 13psi front/14psi rear.


What you have is pure fun...


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Awesome pic Smith, but can you show a better angle for the stay clearances?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

dbhammercycle said:


> Awesome pic Smith, but can you show a better angle for the stay clearances?


You bet. I realize the pic above probably makes it look like a pretty tight fit with the TB 3.0s, but I was happy to find that there is actually ample clearance:


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

Sweet hayduke, I love my trail boss/scraper setup!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Just got a Hayduke as a graduation gift from my fiance! Best girlfriend ever!!!! I have some WTB TB's coming but plan to run the FBN until they get some ware.

Smithhammer what pressures are you running on the TB's?

I'm 160lbs and am running 8F/10.5R with the FBN. after 4 rides I'm really starting to settle into this bike. MY first bike with gears after 3 bikes over 12 years...this thing is fantastic! 

Thanks for fueling the stoke with this thread!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

wilson1417 said:


> Just got a Hayduke as a graduation gift from my fiance! Best girlfriend ever!!!!


Uh, YEAH!! She sounds like a keeper!



> Smithhammer what pressures are you running on the TB's?


I'm 170lbs and running 13f/14r.



> ....after 4 rides I'm really starting to settle into this bike. MY first bike with gears after 3 bikes over 12 years...this thing is fantastic!


Yup, Advocate really nailed it. I wanted a really fun "do just about everything" bike and I found it. Glad you are enjoying it so much as well. :thumbsup:


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## mtb_tico (Mar 9, 2007)

Smithhammer said:


> Ditched the FBNs for new Trail Bosses and swapped out the rear 160 rotor for a 180. Both are worthy upgrades.
> 
> I've got a few good singletrack rides on the Trail Bosses at this point - good mix of dry, loose conditions and damp/tacky, with the usual roots and rocks thrown in. While nowhere near as light as the FBNs, the TBs have a more rounded profile, and beefier shoulders (and they don't have paper-thin sidewalls that I feel like I'm going to rip at any moment). The FBNs always felt like they had a pretty 'square' profile to them, and it was especially evident when you leaned them too far. I can lean the TBs over as far as I'm willing to go and they just keep grabbing. Surprisingly smooth and fast rolling on hardpack as well, for what they are. Tubeless set up was a breeze on Scrapers. Currently running them at 13psi front/14psi rear.


Agreed , those Trail Boss tires are pretty good. Tough sidewall, excellent grip, and fast rolling. For those reasons, the weight doesn't bother me.

Nice set-up Smith!


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

ReXTless said:


> It's a medium.


How tall are you? I'm seriously considering one of these bikes. I'm 5'11", so I could go with either a medium or a large. Smithhammer is about the same size on a medium, and adagioca is the same height as me on a large. I emailed Adam at Advocate and he says he's 5'10" and happy on a large.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

cjbiker said:


> How tall are you? I'm seriously considering one of these bikes. I'm 5'11", so I could go with either a medium or a large. Smithhammer is about the same size on a medium, and adagioca is the same height as me on a large. I emailed Adam at Advocate and he says he's 5'10" and happy on a large.


I'm 5' 10" with a 32.5" inseam. Running a 70mm stem and bars at 740mm. It's a pretty generous medium. About a half size bigger than my 2014 medium El Mariachi, if that helps at all.

I would definitely not want a large size frame in this bike. Medium is great for me. Don't feel like I'm in-between sizes at all.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

ReXTless said:


> I'm 5' 10" with a 32.5" inseam. Running a 70mm stem and bars at 740mm. It's a pretty generous medium. About a half size bigger than my 2014 medium El Mariachi, if that helps at all.
> 
> I would definitely not want a large size frame in this bike. Medium is great for me. Don't feel like I'm in-between sizes at all.


Agreed 100%. At 5'10" with a 32" inseam, I'm glad I didn't go with a large. The medium feels plenty big enough, while still feeling nimble and easy to move the bike around underneath me.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Are you guys using pants inseam, or pubic bone height?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

I'm just using my normal pants inseam.


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Book-in-crotch method for me.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

I wear 32" inseam jeans, but the above method results in 34".


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Smithhammer said:


> I'm just using my normal pants inseam.


What's your saddle height from the center of the BB, along the seat tube?


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## Utahdan (Mar 17, 2016)

*New Hayduke*

Just finished building it last night. I put a 90 mm stem on it, which I plan to switch out to a 70mm. The rim are from asiancyclesexpress.com. Im trying to prove the 2x ain't dead by using an XT 11 spd double. 27lbs with some beefy 3.0 nobby nics, See you on the trails


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

Utahdan said:


> Im trying to prove the 2x ain't dead by using an XT 11 spd double


I went with 2x too. Built up the bike with SRAM GX 2x11 which gives me an awesome range with 24-36 x 10-42. For what I do and where I ride, I really wanted a low bailout granny to go up steep/long climb. But then, I still wanted the high gear to coast along fire roads. For me, the simplicity, cleanliness and weight saving was not enough. The narrow-wide chain rings would be nice but I typically dont have very many chain drops.

Enjoy your new ride!


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Utahdan said:


> Just finished building it last night. I put a 90 mm stem on it, which I plan to switch out to a 70mm. The rim are from asiancyclesexpress.com. Im trying to prove the 2x ain't dead by using an XT 11 spd double. 27lbs with some beefy 3.0 nobby nics, See you on the trails


Great bike! Welcome to the club.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

cjbiker said:


> What's your saddle height from the center of the BB, along the seat tube?


28"


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

The RF Atlas bar wasn't working for me. While I liked the additional width, it was too stiff/heavy. Broke my wrist last year, and hadn't had any issues with it since until I started riding with the Atlas, and then it was sore after every ride.

Swapped it out for a Chromag Fubar instead. Two rough, technical rides on this bar so far, and no wrist soreness after.










I also splurged on a retro dropper.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Very nice!

Thanks for all the sizing info, guys. After measuring all my bikes, many emails with Adam at Advocate, reading tea leaves, meditation, soul searching, I think that a Large would be right.


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## Utahdan (Mar 17, 2016)

ReXTless said:


> Great bike! Welcome to the club.


I spent my first ride trying to figure out tire pressure. Can I get some feedback on what tire pressure people are using with their plus sized tires. I am 190lbs and have 3.0 nobby nics tires. My initial report is that the bike is as sure footed as any Mtn Bike I have had. I am going to hold off on a full review until I get the tire pressure sorted and my trails dry out.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Utahdan said:


> I spent my first ride trying to figure out tire pressure. Can I get some feedback on what tire pressure people are using with their plus sized tires.


Congrats on the new Hayduke. Here's a good place to start for tire pressures:

http://forums.mtbr.com/26-27-5-29-plus-bikes/post-your-plus-sized-tire-pressures-993696.html


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Utahdan, You will find good info in the thread Smithhammer linked. You'll still want to tailor the tires to your liking.

Meanwhile, have playing with your new bike. I have spent considerable time with my +bike and it's a good time!

Congratz, Dood! Enjoy!


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## Utahdan (Mar 17, 2016)

Thanks, apparently I need to get a little more scientific with Tire Pressure. Pressing my thumb against the tire before I ride, is not going to cut it anymore. I'm off to REI to get a digital tire pressure unit. I don't really want to buy a new foot pump but I noticed they sell low volume foot pump designed for us...hmm.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Utahdan said:


> Thanks, apparently I need to get a little more scientific with Tire Pressure. Pressing my thumb against the tire before I ride, is not going to cut it anymore. I'm off to REI to get a digital tire pressure unit. I don't really want to buy a new foot pump but I noticed they sell low volume foot pump designed for us...hmm.


The pressure gauge is handy when you find that your tires are working and feeling good. Take a reading and that way it's easy to get that pressure next time you need to top off your tires. Also might want a small pump to carry along on rides. I tend to change pressure occasionally during a ride when I get into sand, for instance. After you get back to hardpack you might find that airing up is a necessity. It's kinda following from the fatbike world, but is useful.


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

Utahdan said:


> Thanks, apparently I need to get a little more scientific with Tire Pressure. Pressing my thumb against the tire before I ride, is not going to cut it anymore. I'm off to REI to get a digital tire pressure unit. I don't really want to buy a new foot pump but I noticed they sell low volume foot pump designed for us...hmm.


For the conditions I ride 15F/ 17R seems to work out best. (NN 3.0 F/ NN2.8 R)

FWIW - I get FAR more reliable readings from an analogue low pressure gauge than I ever did from the digital ones I've owned. The 0-30 PSI works great for the plus tires. Here's the one I have


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Smithhammer said:


> I also splurged on a retro dropper.


What size clamp did you use? 35.0mm?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

cjbiker said:


> What size clamp did you use? 35.0mm?


Yep - 35.0mm :thumbsup:


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## Utahdan (Mar 17, 2016)

Hello,

I have about 12 hrs of ride time on the Hayduke and must say I really love the platform (plus size wheels). My only issue with the Hayduke is the extra pound+ for those adapter plates that make up the rear dropout. I understand it provides versatility but it's just extra weight to me.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Utahdan said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have about 12 hrs of ride time on the Hayduke and must say I really love the platform (plus size wheels). My only issue with the Hayduke is the extra pound+ for those adapter plates that make up the rear dropout. I understand it provides versatility but it's just extra weight to me.


Wile my sliding dropouts add a little weight, I will not complain of their weight. They provide a method to tweak the performance of my bike.


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## Utahdan (Mar 17, 2016)

Unfortunately, the adapter plates, on the Hayduke do not allow you to adjust the rear wheel. They would be rad if they did!


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Yeah, I think you need to swap in different plates for SS, or boost, or standard.


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## Klucks (Sep 20, 2012)

The Hayduke handled three days on the Kokopelli quite well!
:thumbsup:


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

btohlen said:


> Federico,
> How is the ride quality of the ti frame with all that gear. Do you find it very flexible?
> 
> I just spoke with the nice people over at Advocate cycles, and they confirmed that the Hayduke does NOT have any rack eyelets or brazeons.


Hola btohlen,

I'm very sorry for the late response, but I'd been riding my Hayduke off the beaten track at Southern Patagonia for a couple of months 

Titanium's frame quality is AWESOME and I didn't found it very flexible even when I'm carrying a LOT of weight (I'm dragging a complete photography studio with printer, studio strobe, etc)... and when I lighten the load a little bit is astonishing!!!

I'm sad to hear the production version doesn't have eyelets or brazeons either (they don't cost/weight much as to add them to every frame) as I think it would be an awesome option for some riders 


















































































































Saludos,
Federico Cabrera
Their Only Portrait. Portraits & Cycling
http://www.instagram.com/theironlyportrait


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## mtb_tico (Mar 9, 2007)

Smithhammer said:


> I also splurged on a retro dropper.


Hey dude -

I had the same QR clamp on mine but swapped it out for a bolt clamp instead. I found that my seatpost was slipping down during my rides. That also damaged my Thomson post. With the bolt I can get that extra clamp down; I also put the gritty grease in there.

Have you had the same issue with the post slipping down?


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## ser jameson (Jun 24, 2012)

mtb_tico said:


> Hey dude -
> 
> I had the same QR clamp on mine but swapped it out for a bolt clamp instead. I found that my seatpost was slipping down during my rides. That also damaged my Thomson post. With the bolt I can get that extra clamp down; I also put the gritty grease in there.
> 
> Have you had the same issue with the post slipping down?


I had a Salsa set post clamp. It was hard to get the tension just right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Haven't noticed any slippage yet, but I agree that it's a little tricky to get the tension just right with them.


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Local Race here in Flagstaff, Az has a "Fat Tire" Class (3.0 or bigger) Gonna race the Hayduke in that rather than CAT 2... Should be fun. What a bike!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

wilson1417 said:


> Local Race here in Flagstaff, Az has a "Fat Tire" Class (3.0 or bigger) Gonna race the Hayduke in that rather than CAT 2... Should be fun. What a bike!


Hey neighbor!

Don't forget the Super-D on Sunday!


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

PHeller Headed to Colorado Sunday morning but might come out and support some friends for a bit!


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## ser jameson (Jun 24, 2012)

First ride on my new Hayduke! I'll comment more as I ride it, but so far, so good. 
Any concerns about weight and rolling resistance of the + tires were quickly put to rest.
I think it's going to be the perfect replacement for my El Mariachi .
I have the stock complete bike listed on Advocates site. It's a medium.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

ser jameson said:


> [URL]http://uploads.tapatalk[/URL]
> 
> Congratulations ser jameson, I'm glad you're enjoying it!!!
> 
> ...


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

The Hayduke thread has been far too neglected lately...



















And a link to a recent Hayduke Sub-24 we did: https://forums.mtbr.com/bikepacking...backyard-adventures-1017508.html#post12733839​


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## grizzler (Mar 30, 2009)

Smithhammer thanks for sharing, sounds like a blast! I've got all my parts waiting for a Hayduke frame, they're out of the office right now and I'm getting anxious. Seeing those awesome pics helps!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)




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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

grizzler said:


> Smithhammer thanks for sharing, sounds like a blast! I've got all my parts waiting for a Hayduke frame, they're out of the office right now and I'm getting anxious. Seeing those awesome pics helps!


Grizzler's JONSIN, hard core! Aaaannnddd, it's all Smithhammer's doing! :cornut:



Smithhammer said:


>


Nice vista, Smithhammer! Always nice to see a pic of your bike taking in the view! @[email protected] Look at all the riding that needs done out there...

Haven't been doing pix lately altho' shoulda done yesterday at the LBS cause we were trialsin with the Mayor. Was hella fun with 4.8"s of springiness! Sarge is going out for a trail rip today after a lube of the chain and topoff of the tire pressure. Hmm, might have to change his shoes for some backcountry. Deer trails and Nobby Nic's tend to work very well as the soil is loose and loamy.


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## grizzler (Mar 30, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> Grizzler's JONSIN, hard core! Aaaannnddd, it's all Smithhammer's doing! :cornut:


Well... you're not wrong! Still waiting to hear back ha!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

@[email protected] where's my bike, man?!?!
Damn, I hate the anticipation, too! 

It's still Smithhammer's fault!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> It's still Smithhammer's fault!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

lol

It is cause Grizzler saw your bike pix and popped a boner and ordered one up! :cornut:


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## grizzler (Mar 30, 2009)

BansheeRune said:


> lol
> 
> It is cause Grizzler saw your bike pix and popped a boner and ordered one up! :cornut:


boioioioioing


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## ser jameson (Jun 24, 2012)

I'm happy to have mine!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Welp, finally put some 27+ wheels (SRAM boost hubs, WTB Scrapers and Rangers,) on my Hayduke. Two short-ish rides isn't enough time to tell, but so far I really like it! Hope to get a more serious ride in this week, and I'll post pics and more impressions.

Los


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

sslos said:


> Welp, finally put some 27+ wheels (SRAM boost hubs, WTB Scrapers and Rangers,) on my Hayduke. Two short-ish rides isn't enough time to tell, but so far I really like it! Hope to get a more serious ride in this week, and I'll post pics and more impressions.
> 
> Los


Hola sslos, please let me know your thoughts about the new set of wheels compared to the previous one.... actually I'm willing to get a set of 29" wheels (35mm rims & high volume 2.3 tires) to use in those trips involving more pavement or when I'm too far from home and 27.5 rims & tires aren't available.

Thanks,
Federico Cabrera
Their Only Portrait. Portraits & Cycling


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Alright, so I now have a total of 3 rides on the 27+ wheel set. So far, I'm pretty happy with them. Not sure if I'm any faster, but they definitely inspire confidence with their increased traction. Unfortunately, that did lead to me over cooking an unfamiliar corner, which resulted in less skin on my left elbow and knee...
There's one spot that the plus tires really impressed me- it's a steep, rutted, sandy descent followed by an equivalent climb back up. I've rarely cleaned the uphill, sometimes running out of gas but usually because of a slipping rear tire or getting caught in a rut. I was able to not only climb the steepest section out of the saddle, but also had no problem rolling through ruts!
Happy with the set up so far.

Los


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

_"May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view." _

― Edward Abbey


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Cockpit change in anticipation of a bikepacking trip this weekend. However, it's so damn comfortable it might just stay this way.


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## cjbiker (Jan 11, 2016)

Smithhammer said:


> Cockpit change in anticipation of a bikepacking trip this weekend. However, it's so damn comfortable it might just stay this way.


What bars are those? I'm liking the Salsa Bend 2 and Origin8 Space Bars. Those look somewhere between the two.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

cjbiker said:


> What bars are those? I'm liking the Salsa Bend 2 and Origin8 Space Bars. Those look somewhere between the two.


Answer Pro Taper 20/20.

_Great_ bar. :thumbsup:

https://www.answerproducts.com/components/bars/protaper-carbon-720-enduro/


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## crash_happy (Mar 4, 2015)

Just a quick intro here to give another plug for the Hayduke.

I started my search for a steel 27.5+ hardtail this spring, and quickly narrowed it down to the Hayduke. I was pleased to find a local distributor in Alaska, and after waiting for weeks for the frames to get back in stock, the Bicycle Shop agreed to order a complete bike and strip it for me (huge thanks to them!).

I'd been sitting on my box of parts for a while, but due to various unfortunate setbacks it took a few weeks to get it together.

Finally got it completed last week, and have been putting some miles on. I am pleased to say it rides as well as I'd hoped, and so far I am not regretting my decision to ditch my FS 29er.

Build:
Steel Hayduke frame (Large)
Fox Performance 130mm 27.5+ fork
WTB Scraper 45mm rims on SRAM hubs (for now, trying to decide on exactly what wheels I want, but leaning towards 40mm rims on DT350s)
XT M8000 1x11 drivetrain with Raceface Aeffect crank and 32t ring
XT M8000 brakes w/ice tech rotors
Thomson 50mm stem
Cane Creek 40 HS
Raceface Next 725mm carbon bars
Crank Brothers 11 carbon seatpost (for now, will begrudgingly be getting a dropper, probably)
WTB Trail Boss 3.0 tires


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Congrats and welcome to the club! Looks like a solid build. :thumbsup:


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

crash_happy said:


> Just a quick intro here to give another plug for the Hayduke.
> 
> I started my search for a steel 27.5+ hardtail this spring, and quickly narrowed it down to the Hayduke. I was pleased to find a local distributor in Alaska, and after waiting for weeks for the frames to get back in stock, the Bicycle Shop agreed to order a complete bike and strip it for me (huge thanks to them!).
> 
> ...


Hola crash_happy,

CONGRATULATIONS it looks awesome... I hope I could test WTB's Trail Boss 3.0 soon 

Saludos,
Federico Cabrera
Their Only Portrait | Portraits & Cycling


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## kdoug (Feb 2, 2015)

Just picked mine up a few days ago. Running tubeless but everything else so far is untouched. I'm going to replace the "hard as a rock" Half Nelson grips with the much softer ODI Rogue's. The bars will also be replaced with carbon risers. Other than that the bike rides beautifully and I couldn't be happier.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

Getting my Hayduke next week. Can't wait! I need to get some spare parts for it since I live outside the U.S. Does anyone know the spoke length that comes stock with the wheels?


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## kdoug (Feb 2, 2015)

Chris Pringle said:


> Getting my Hayduke next week. Can't wait! I need to get some spare parts for it since I live outside the U.S. Does anyone know the spoke length that comes stock with the wheels?


Get a hold of Tim @ [email protected]. He's really good about answering questions even though he told me my stem length on my large was 100mm in reality it was 90mm.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Chris, all you need is the hub make and model to look up the measurements of it and the ERD of the rim with offset in order to get a spoke length. More than likely, the folks at Advocate can answer or get the answer for ya tho'.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

kdoug said:


> Get a hold of Tim @ [email protected]. He's really good about answering questions even though he told me my stem length on my large was 100mm in reality it was 90mm.


Yes, I already did that several days ago, but I haven't heard back. He has been really nice and helpful in many other ways though. Since I have been silently following this thread for a while, I figured I should ask here as most likely someone has already gone through the process of buying at least a couple of spare spokes for his bike -- never leave on a bikepacking trip without 'em!


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## kdoug (Feb 2, 2015)

Well, 3 weeks later I'm almost done with my upgrades. All the Race Face Ride components are gone. The bar was replaced with a Easton Haven Carbon 35 20mm rise in blue, a Easton Haven aluminum 70mm 0 degree stem, SRAM carbon stem spacers, a Niner RDO "unstiff" Carbon seatpost in blue, ODI Rogue lock on grips and finally a SRAM X01 trigger shifter. 
I'm absolutely amazed how much more comfortable the bars and grips are than the Half-Nelson grips and flat bar that came on the bike.

The SRAM GX shifter wasn't planned but I've got a sore joint in in my right thumb that hasn't healed properly and not being able adjust the trigger on the GX made my decision easier.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

kdoug said:


> I'm absolutely amazed how much more comfortable the bars and grips are than the Half-Nelson grips and flat bar that came on the bike.


Yup - no comparo between a good carbon bar and a heavy, lo-spec alloy one! And yeah, those Half-Nelson grips are rock hard.

Your Hayduke looks good!!


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## kwabbott (Mar 13, 2011)

Sorry to go off topic for a second, but about carbon handlebars....a couple of weeks ago I rode a friend's Stache 9 with Carbon bars and it was one of the most comfortable bikes I've ever been on. But then last weekend at a Trek demo I rode the new Stache 9.6 carbon frame with Alloy bars and it was not nearly as comfy, especially on the hands. Could the difference really be in the bars?


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

kwabbott said:


> Sorry to go off topic for a second, but about carbon handlebars....a couple of weeks ago I rode a friend's Stache 9 with Carbon bars and it was one of the most comfortable bikes I've ever been on. But then last weekend at a Trek demo I rode the new Stache 9.6 carbon frame with Alloy bars and it was not nearly as comfy, especially on the hands. Could the difference really be in the bars?


In short, yes it could.

In a more detail: The bars are only one element that impacts hand fatigue. The Specific tire, tire size, tire pressure, the fork model, the fork travel, air pressure set up, grips and the gloves you're using all have an impact. That said, if everything else was the same you can usually tell a difference between Carbon and Alloy bars. In general you'll get a little more reduction in vibration from carbon bars; however, not all carbon bars are the same (neither are alloy I suspect). For one, size matters. A 35mm bar will nearly always be more stiff than a 31.8 bar. I've never had a problem with a 31.8 and don't want the added stiffness of a 35mm bar. Then again I'm 160lbs, so someone that's 200+ may have a different sensitivity.

Some brands simply feel more stiff than others to me. For example, Race Face carbon bars feel far more stiff than Enve bars. I think Enve rims and stems are insanely over priced, but their bars are the most comfortable I've used (compared to multiple versions of Easton, Race Face, and proprietary bars like Pivot, Scott, etc.)


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

kwabbott said:


> Could the difference really be in the bars?


Yeah, it really could be. Carbon does a really good job of damping vibration, while alloy does a great job of transmitting vibrations (though individual bars will vary based on construction, thickness, etc).

I was experiencing frequent wrist pain post-ride a while back, and tried a number of different grips, thinking that was the issue, but it wouldn't go away. Switched to a carbon bar and I havent experienced it since.

I'm not sure much would ever convince me to own a full-carbon mtn bike, but I'm sold on carbon for handlebars.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

kwabbott said:


> Sorry to go off topic for a second, but about carbon handlebars....a couple of weeks ago I rode a friend's Stache 9 with Carbon bars and it was one of the most comfortable bikes I've ever been on. But then last weekend at a Trek demo I rode the new Stache 9.6 carbon frame with Alloy bars and it was not nearly as comfy, especially on the hands. Could the difference really be in the bars?


Part of the equation. Also choice of grips, tires (tube vs tubeless + pressure) and how the suspension fork is tuned can create a significant impact on comfort. It is very unlikely that a stock bike at a Trek demo will be set up correctly for any given rider.

Specifically to the Hayduke, I am sure those who switch the stock Race Face handlebars will experience a noticeable degree on comfort. These handlebars are not only alloy, but they also come with oversize 35mm diameter clamp. That's outright a downhill-style handlebar with a girth notoriously known for being super stiff to the point of uncomfortable for the kind of "all-mountain" riding I guess most people intend to do with this bike. If you switch the cockpit to 31.8mm carbon bars with a much shorter stem, the effect on comfort (and handling!) will be pretty striking, IMHO.


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## sdemars (Mar 3, 2011)

kwabbott said:


> Could the difference really be in the bars?


Also, if you're paranoid about carbon don't hesitate to give Titanium bars a go. You don't need to get the billion dollar Thomson bars or the noodly cheap Chinese ones with a spacer clap either. Carver makes some quality 31.8 bars in a variety of different sweeps that are right around $100. Heavier than carbon but close to the same vibration damping in my experience. Initially I had some carbon bars on my Hayduke, but usually run a bar bag (which causes rubbing) and I wanted a bit more sweep so I tried the 11 degree sweep Carver Ti bars - they've been on the Hayduke for 1000 miles now.

Here are the ones I'm using. Carver PryBar


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## kdoug (Feb 2, 2015)

Chris Pringle said:


> Part of the equation. Also choice of grips, tires (tube vs tubeless + pressure) and how the suspension fork is tuned can create a significant impact on comfort. It is very unlikely that a stock bike at a Trek demo will be set up correctly for any given rider.
> 
> Specifically to the Hayduke, I am sure those who switch the stock Race Face handlebars will experience a noticeable degree on comfort. These handlebars are not only alloy, but they also come with oversize 35mm diameter clamp. That's outright a downhill-style handlebar with a girth notoriously known for being super stiff to the point of uncomfortable for the kind of "all-mountain" riding I guess most people intend to do with this bike. If you switch the cockpit to 31.8mm carbon bars with a much shorter stem, the effect on comfort (and handling!) will be pretty striking, IMHO.


I agree with shortening the stem for handling purposes. I shortened the stem from 90mm to 70mm with 0 degree rise instead of +6. The carbon riser bars added 20mm with a 5 degree sweep up and 9 degree back. This with ODI Roque grips make for a much more enjoyable experience.
My understanding from reading the Race Face hype is the 35MM is suppose to be lighter but still retain the same stiffness as 31.8 so I don't think there's going to be much difference in stiffness.


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## SpartyinWI (Jun 24, 2016)

Hi I have a dumb/novice question. i am thinking about the Hayduke as my first 'real' bike. If I order off the website as opposed to going to a dealer shop, how much assembly would I have? 

TIA. Matt


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

SpartyinWI said:


> Hi I have a dumb/novice question. i am thinking about the Hayduke as my first 'real' bike. If I order off the website as opposed to going to a dealer shop, how much assembly would I have?
> 
> TIA. Matt


IIRC, the bike comes about 70% assembled. It's definitely not plug-and-play. You'd still to pay a bike shop to finish it for you and to make sure they adjust the drivetrain to work smoothly and, most importantly, SAFELY for you. If you buy from a bike shop, full assembly is always included as part of the price you pay. Bike shops will usually throw in a few freebies like a water bottle cage, a few free tune-ups, and give you substantial discounts on gear (e.g., helmet, hydration pack, computer, protective pads, etc.)


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Hey guys, hopefully one of you can answer a couple questions I can find answers on:

Frame only, which drop outs does it come with? I know it's thru axle but 142 or 148? Hoping 148 but I'm guessing 142

Head tube looks 44mm, that right?

How wide of b+ tires can the rear truly fit? Was hoping for a true 3" (if I can find a tire that's actually 3" @ side knobs that I like)

I've been sorting out a b+ frame to build as a xc/trail bike and this on checks all boxes. Plus side is I can literally swap the rear drop outs and seat post, use everything off my 29er while waiting for all my parts to build it in b+ form. Be really "blue" in 29er form as I'm looking at the Blue frame. But green will be the final theme on the frame.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Comes set up 148mm unless you specify otherwise. 44mm headtube, and yes, it'll fit a 3"!
Now quit diddling around and get one!


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I just needed to clarify cause info is lacking.

Ordering one shortly, sucks it will take a few months to get the b+ stuff together cause not sure if I want to settle at 40mm rims so I can go green and forks ain't cheap 

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

tigris99 said:


> I just needed to clarify cause info is lacking.
> 
> Ordering one shortly, sucks it will take a few months to get the b+ stuff together cause not sure if I want to settle at 40mm rims so I can go green and forks ain't cheap
> 
> Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


I rode mine for a couple of months as a 29er. Great bike, but it really came alive with the 27+ tires.

Los


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## MattCastle (Dec 2, 2016)

*My Advocate Cycles 2x1 Fully Rigid 27.5 Plus Bike*









-	9point8 Fall Line 500x175mm Travel https://www.9point8.ca/index.php?route=product/product&path=42&product_id=118
-	Fork: MRP Rock Solid Rock Solid ? MRP
-	Wheelset: Easton ARC 35 on Industry Nine Torch Classic Hubs
-	Tires: WTB Trail Blazer 2.8
-	Brakes: Shimano XT M8000
-	Cranks: Race Face Turbine 11 speed 36/26
-	SS Cog: Absolute Black 20T absoluteBLACK | SS COGS
-	Handle Bar: Race Face Turbine 35
-	Stem: Race Face Turbine 35 80mm Length

Rear Derailleur is only on there for a tensioner to go between the front rings. I decided to 2x1 this bike as I found that I can keep the rear cassette in more or less the same gear per trail. And it doesn't vary much between different trails in my area. Hammer a bit more on the uphills and spin more on the downhills. Was kind of built as a winter bike too. And I find I shift significantly less in the winter.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Merry Christmas me


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

screamingbunny said:


> Merry Christmas me
> View attachment 1111801


Indeed, details on the paint please.


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## Haste11 (Jul 5, 2014)

dbhammercycle said:


> Indeed, details on the paint please.


http://advocatecycles.com/product/hayduke-imba-special-edition/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

No mention on the site of who is responsible for the graphic. Adam Turman maybe? Gorgeous bike just better and now I lament my lack of funds even more.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Advocate Cycles and the International Mountain Bike Association announce specially-painted, limited edition Hayduke frames to be sold as a fundraiser for IMBA.

Advocate Cycles is the first bike brand to pledge 100% of after-tax profits to be donated to cycling advocacy efforts. To coincide with IMBA’s World Summit this week in Bentonville, AR, they have created a limited run of 30 frames from their Hayduke model, with custom art designed by Adam Turman that reflects a singletrack trail, and all the parts of the earth around it. These 30 frames will be sold through Advocate Cycle’s dealer and direct sales channels for $800. Each purchase will include a free 1-year membership to IMBA, with the entire purchase price going to IMBA’s Dig In Campaign.

“My early background with cycling advocacy was with trail organizations that are member-chapters of IMBA,” said Tim Krueger, President of Advocate Cycles. “The work that IMBA does worldwide has created this amazing resource of trails we all enjoy, and that is why they are a primary recipient of the money we generate for cycling advocacy through Advocate Cycles.”


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

OK haven't ordered my frame yet, holiday expenses and I was doing more digging for more options (or lack of) for a b+ build.

I did happen to notice, though still digging to find actual sizes isntead of claimed, that b+ tires are all the way up to 3.25.

Now you guys said it'll fit a 3" b+ tire, assuming actual 3", but is that with enough clearance? I forgot to mention I'm a Clyde so things are going to flex, plus I'm looking at running between 40 and 50mm rims. Need to make sure I'm not going to have rubbing issues before I order his after the first of the year.

Thanks.

And PS the special addition frame is almost cool, but I'm so tired of seeing red frame colors on bikes. Other than that the IMBA frame is pretty sweet. Not my cup of tea though.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Congrats on the sweet new SE Hayduke!!



tigris99 said:


> I did happen to notice, though still digging to find actual sizes isntead of claimed, that b+ tires are all the way up to 3.25.
> 
> Now you guys said it'll fit a 3" b+ tire, assuming actual 3", but is that with enough clearance? I forgot to mention I'm a Clyde so things are going to flex, plus I'm looking at running between 40 and 50mm rims. Need to make sure I'm not going to have rubbing issues before I order his after the first of the year.


So, is your question whether the Hayduke will fit a 3.0" tire on a 40-50mm rim, or if it will fit a 3.25?" It will definitely fit a 3.0" tire on a 45mm rim with reasonable clearance, no problem. Not sure about a 3.25" in the rear though.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

Ya I was just curious how much clearance, if it fits a true 3 on a 45-50 rim and decent enough clearance that's what I need. A 3.25 is probably only 3" anyway unless on a 65mm rim.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Hey fellas... read through the threads and saw where someone had asked about the weigh difference between the steel and TI frames but never saw the answer... Anyone know? Thanks


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

steel lg, 6.04 lbs


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## bncrshr77 (Jun 19, 2007)

Thanks... hopefully someone will chime in with some TI weights


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

screamingbunny said:


> Merry Christmas me
> View attachment 1111801


That thing looks amazing! Congrats, and Merry Christmas! Now go get it dirty (or snowy)!


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

unfortunately no dirt to be had in these parts


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Where are Advocate Cycles' frames made? I'm guessing Taiwan, as if they were fabricating in the US that would be jumping off their web page. However, I can't seem to find it anywhere on their site, nor through a cursory Google search.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

^^^
You're right about Taiwan -- a country that has mastered the welding of steel over many decades. The big advantage here is the use of nice Reynolds 725 steel tubing which you'll rarely find on most plus bikes, unless you go custom.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

That's my understanding as well - the Advocate Ti frames are made in Taiwan. And as Chris says, I wouldn't discount them for that one bit. I've laid eyes on a couple Advocate Ti frames, and they were really nice looking, with clean welds.



Chris Pringle said:


> ^^^
> ....The big advantage here is the use of nice Reynolds 725 steel tubing which you'll rarely find on most plus bikes, unless you go custom.


Agreed, and that was certainly a factor for me in choosing the Hayduke. Props to Advocate for going above and beyond on their steel choice.


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

Been having a ponder on replacing the Instigator with this or a Stanton; is there a big difference between 725 vs 631 steel? Would love to support this company, but trying to decide if this is going to fit the variety bill. Thx


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

BroJangles said:


> Been having a ponder on replacing the Instigator with this or a Stanton; is there a big difference between 725 vs 631 steel? Would love to support this company, but trying to decide if this is going to fit the variety bill. Thx


There is a difference in the manufacturing process of the tubing, one being air-hardened (Reynolds 631) which requires a slight thicker walls -- slightly heavier. Reynolds 725, on the other hand, is heat-treated with slightly thinner/lighter walls. Thinner steel walls, however, can result in a frame being slightly more easily spot-dented in spite of the overall structure (i.e., frame) being stronger. There are even other lighter/thinner/stronger tubesets (e.g., Reynolds 853, 953) but 725 is considered to offer a very good balance/ratio of strength, weight, dent-resistance, etc.

Please keep in mind that the above is really geek talk as in practice you will be really hard pressed to tell the difference from one tubeset to the next while riding. There are many ways the builder can work with these steel materials to suit a specific frame to produce desirable riding traits. Obviously, it might affect your pocketbook as the builder might charge more for the more premium tube set, if he wants to.

In choosing a 27.5 plus bike to fulfill your "variety bill", my suggestion is to look for a frameset that will handle tire clearance of up to 3.0 tires. This will allow you to try a wide range of tires being launched for various purposes/terrains. Too many frames out there cut their tire clearance short at 2.8" which is beyond me, although manufacturers are quickly learning about the market demand and updating their frames for full 3.0 clearance.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Cool- thanks for the info. Yes, I have no issue with a bike being made in Taiwan- most of the 7 bikes my wife and I have were made there. And I do love that Advocate is using Reynolds 725 over the typical 4130 used in a lot of steel bikes. 

That is one (of a few) things that turns me off a little bit about the GG Pedalhead, that they describe their steel as "custom SmashMoly" tubing. That means pretty much nothing to me. I haven't seen anything definitive on what it is, but my guess is that it is 4130 that is square.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

Boo Bear said:


> That is one (of a few) things that turns me off a little bit about the GG Pedalhead, that they describe their steel as "custom SmashMoly" tubing. That means pretty much nothing to me. I haven't seen anything definitive on what it is, but my guess is that it is 4130 that is square.


I have seen that, too, on the Guerrilla Gravity's website. The name they came up with for their tubeset makes me chuckle.

In all seriousness, I agree with you in the assumption that it must be plain chromoly 4130. But as I said in my previous post, a big factor is how the steel is crafted to make the final product, i.e., frame. At the end of the day, each company enjoys its own fan base. The geometries and aesthetics of the Hayduke vs the Pedalhead are also strikingly different. So you need to see what works best for you.

As far as square vs round steel tubes, that's an interesting topic. You rarely see bikes spec'd with square steel tubes. It has been proven over decades that round tubes are substantially better for bike building as they resist torsional forces better than square tubes. Given the additional manufacturing process that Reynolds 725 entails to produce much stiffer tubes with thinner walls, there is absolutely no need whatsoever to go square. I am sure GG is using their Smashmoly square tube cocktail in various widths and wall thickness to compensate in other ways. But other than cool aesthetics, it just raises more questions. At any rate, more in-depth discussion on this subject can be found here...
Square Tube for Bike Frame [Archive] - WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts

Personally, I would stick with the superior tubeset and proven building techniques found on the Hayduke. Plus, as it has been said so many times, it is helluva fun bike to ride.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

725 makes a REALLY nice "ping" noise when you tap it with a finger nail, that's enough of a reason for me, far superior to any 4130 pipe


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Haha. Forgot about how nice a ping steel makes. My '99 steel Fisher makes way better trail noise than my '09 aluminium Stumpy. 

If I end up going over $2K for a B+ hardtail, pretty sure I'd go Hayduke over Pedalhead for a couple reasons. 1) I really love the business model Advocate is using- that is just a boatload of awesome. 2) I'm not crazy about the 3mm dished rear wheel and flipped chainring aspects of the Pedalhead. I like the idea of upgrading/replacing parts without worrying about compatibility issues. 

They both sound like phenomenal bikes from their reviews, and it sounds like GG is a great company giving great customer service as well. But, Hayduke's factory build is a lot better for the money, company's mission is the shiz, and the bike has a nice old-school steel HT approach (for a bike that is boost 27.5+...haha, I know....)

I've been tempted to pull the trigger on a Hayduke, but I really want to ride a few different models up at NEMAB Fest in June. (One, I want to make sure I like B+ HT, which I don't foresee being a problem). Which raises another issue- really no way for me to demo a Hayduke or Pedalhead, which is not ideal.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Well if you want to try a large with a 140mm fork (geo is spot on with this) I'll be at NEMBA Fest, your more than welcome to take The Duke for a spin


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

screamingbunny said:


> Well if you want to try a large with a 140mm fork (geo is spot on with this) I'll be at NEMBA Fest, your more than welcome to take The Duke for a spin


Sweet!!! I'll take you up on that. I'm 5'11.75" w/32" inseam. Looks like I'd probably be a large frame on the Hayduke. I'll connect with you through PM as we get closer to hammer out details. Thanks, that is mighty nice of you.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Hey screamingbunny- won't need the test ride after all, but thank you for the offer.

Happy to report I'm joining the family. My Hayduke should ship Tuesday.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Good choice, see you at NEMBA Fest


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## beantheory (Mar 26, 2016)

bncrshr77 said:


> Thanks... hopefully someone will chime in with some TI weights


Emailed them last night asking, and got a reply 7AM today! A small Ti frame weighs in at 5.2lbs for perspective.

Have a build planned and can't wait to get my hands on a frame


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*My new Hayduke*

Got it last night. It is even more beautiful in person that I had anticipated. So happy I went with this bike over all the other options I was considering. This bike just has a feeling of quality and "special" about it that is hard to put into words.

And I haven't even pedaled one stroke on it. I'll remedy that tomorrow.

The Gary Fisher behind it in the photo was a big influencer in my getting the Hayduke. I have a soft spot for blue steel HT's.

Stock build size L. I'm 6' with a 32" inseam (book in crotch method), and the fit appears to be perfect. (I did compare the geo with my '09 Stumpy and consulted with Advocate in choosing size.)

Weighs in at 30.1 lbs w/out pedals.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

Boo Bear said:


> Got it last night. It is even more beautiful in person that I had anticipated. So happy I went with this bike over all the other options I was considering. This bike just has a feeling of quality and "special" about it that is hard to put into words.
> 
> And I haven't even pedaled one stroke on it. I'll remedy that tomorrow.


Congrats! You put it together really quick. It looks ready for some action.

Looking forward to reading about your first impressions.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Chris Pringle said:


> Congrats! You put it together really quick.


Thanks. It is a beautiful bike. Full disclosure, I didn't put it together- my mechanic did- he is worth his weight in craft brew. Though I will install the pedals myself.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Congratz, Boo Bear! You're in for a real treat when you go out on that fabled maiden voyage. It's gonna be awesome. 
Enjoy the ride...


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*First impressions*

I was lucky enough to have a window of unusual New England weather, and got in two rides on the Hayduke this weekend. Though I did have to travel just a bit south and east of me because my local trails (So. NH) are crap right now- not enough snow for good fat biking; just enough crust, slush, and ice to ruin the trails for "regular" riding.

So I headed down to NE MA- no snow or ice on the trails. A touch soft and damp- but only had to hop off 3 or 4 times total to avoid rutting really soft sections.

Saturday's ride was at Harold Parker, which has some extremely technical and VERY rocky sections. I used to ride there a fair amount in the late 90's on my Gary Fisher HT. (Not quite sure how I did that.) Damn- some sections I wouldn't have wanted to attempt on my FS Stumpy.

Sunday's ride was the polar opposite. My first ride on this trail system (Willowdale in Ipswich), but there was hardly a rock in sight, very few roots- the most flowing, smooth network of trails I've ever seen in New England. Pretty much the antithesis of North East riding.

After two rides of an hour+ each, in completely different conditions, here are my thoughts on the Hayduke thus far:

-My skills have gotten really soft riding a FS bike since '09. Granted, the first ride on Saturday had sections of trail that would've flustered me on the FS, but... I put a foot down or was off the bike more times in one ride than I've probably been in the last 3 years combined. I got my ass handed to me.

-If I had a ride like that on my FS bike, I'd have been miserable. I would have been pissed off out how badly I was riding. However, on the Hayduke, I loved it. It was great to be so challenged on a bike again. In fact, on this ride I:
1) Went OTB 
2) Broke one of my shoes 
3) Laughed out loud twice 
4) Probably had more fun on a bike than since my mid-20's, when I was riding my 26er Fisher HT.

-I've seen a few people comment on the fact that Advocate really nailed the geometry on this bike. Yes. They absolutely did. It is fantastic.

-I've also seen a lot of people say this bike doesn't feel like the number of LBS that shows up on the scale. Again, YES. Unbelievable. My stock 'duke was 30.1 w/out pedals. It has to be one of the most balanced bikes I've ever hefted. You know how BMW gloats about their cars being 50/50 weight distribution? I think the Hayduke is probably 20/20/20/20/20 weight distribution. This bike rides so much lighter than it weighs. My Motobecane fat bike weighs 33 lbs. It feels like it weighs 38. My Stumpy FS is 27 lbs. My 30lb Hayduke feels as nimble if not more than my Stumpy. Do not worry about the weight of this bike.

-Speaking of weight, I didn't feel like the 27+ tires were that much more work to spin up. I think maybe the difference of spinning up my smaller, lighter wheels on my FS bike are offset by the absence of a rear shock.

-I realized how much I tune-out sometimes riding a FS bike. The Hayduke is total Zen: I'm in the moment- thinking of nothing else. The HT is so much more engaging than the FS.

-I f'ing love steel. I ride a steel road bike and the difference on pavement is night and day. I didn't think it'd be as big a deal on trail. Wrong. Anyone who says frame material is insignificant is wrong- they're going on stuff they've read on the internet- not things they've felt through the seat of their pants. Or they just don't appreciate nuance. Or both.

-The SRAM GX drivetrain is great. They really nailed it. Super smooth, and the gear range is spot-on.

-I really like the Reba so far. Overall, this bike has a great spec for the money. I look at what some of the major players are spec'ing their bikes with, +/- a few hundred $$, and it isn't close.

-My seatpost has been slipping a bit. Odd. (Standard collar, not QR.)

-Jury is out on the FBN's. Mostly because I think a lot of what I could perceive as their shortcomings might be more about me needing to readjust and sharpen my skills on a HT. I had a lot of rear wheel spin-outs. We'll see. My hunch is that they're pretty good tires.

-My wife is going to be getting a trail bike this year. The last two days have absolutely cemented my conviction that you learn to ride trail on a hard tail. FS is a crutch. An aid. I'm not anti FS, but I would say that if a person has only known FS trail riding and nothing else, they are underdeveloped as a rider. You can be a rider who rides great on a FS, but it is different to be a great rider.

-I'm looking forward to customizing the cockpit. Grips, carbon bars, and a Thomson stem is what I'm thinking.

-This bike is fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. It has reignited my love for trail riding in a similar way that the fat bike on snow reignited my love of biking in general.

Thank you to all of you in this thread who sung the praise of the Hayduke- your gushing love of this bike helped me in making my final decision to get one. And I'm so glad I did. I love it.

Also, there are a lot of 27.5+ HT's to choose from right now. This is a GREAT thing. I went back and forth on a lot of different bikes, not just steel- Cannondale, Specialized, Salsa, Jamis, RSD, Canfield, Norco, to name a few. Pretty much if there was a 27.5+ HT, I looked at it.

If you're thinking of getting a Hayduke, do it.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

Thank you for the in-depth first impression. Fun read!



Boo Bear said:


> -My skills have gotten really soft riding a FS bike since '09. Granted, the first ride on Saturday had sections of trail that would've flustered me on the FS, but... I put a foot down or was off the bike more times in one ride than I've probably been in the last 3 years combined. I got my ass handed to me.
> 
> -If I had a ride like that on my FS bike, I'd have been miserable. I would have been pissed off out how badly I was riding. However, on the Hayduke, I loved it.


This could have also been partly due to getting used to the geometry of a new bike. If you're going to be riding more technical trails, you might want to consider tweaking the geometry a little bit for even more control. For instance, a shorter stem and wider handlebar might be in order for you.



> -I've also seen a lot of people say this bike doesn't feel like the number of LBS that shows up on the scale. Again, YES. Unbelievable. My stock 'duke was 30.1 w/out pedals. It has to be one of the most balanced bikes I've ever hefted. You know how BMW gloats about their cars being 50/50 weight distribution? I think the Hayduke is probably 20/20/20/20/20 weight distribution. This bike rides so much lighter than it weighs. My Motobecane fat bike weighs 33 lbs. It feels like it weighs 38. My Stumpy FS is 27 lbs. My 30lb Hayduke feels as nimble if not more than my Stumpy. Do not worry about the weight of this bike.


Concur!



> -I realized how much I tune-out sometimes riding a FS bike. The Hayduke is total Zen: I'm in the moment- thinking of nothing else. The HT is so much more engaging than the FS.


Yes, it's like a good sports car in which you're totally engaged between the vehicle and the road -- some suspension for comfort but not too much to feel muted and disconnected from the driving experience.



> -I f'ing love steel. I ride a steel road bike and the difference on pavement is night and day. I didn't think it'd be as big a deal on trail. Wrong. Anyone who says frame material is insignificant is wrong- they're going on stuff they've read on the internet- not things they've felt through the seat of their pants. Or they just don't appreciate nuance. Or both.


Not too many steel MTB's nowadays, but they really nailed it by spec'ing a very good quality Reynolds 725 steel for a good balance of stiffness, compliance and durability that can't be easily replicated using other materials.



> -The SRAM GX drivetrain is great. They really nailed it. Super smooth, and the gear range is spot-on.


It is no fluke that the GX drivetrain is usually compared to Shimano's XT in performance as noted here: Mountain Bike Action Magazine | SRAM GX vs. Shimano XT



> -I really like the Reba so far. Overall, this bike has a great spec for the money. I look at what some of the major players are spec'ing their bikes with, +/- a few hundred $$, and it isn't close.


Yes, another reason to pay extra for the Hayduke.



> -Jury is out on the FBN's. Mostly because I think a lot of what I could perceive as their shortcomings might be more about me needing to readjust and sharpen my skills on a HT. I had a lot of rear wheel spin-outs. We'll see. My hunch is that they're pretty good tires.


I decided to leave the Fat B Nimbles as spare tires. I didn't even try them. I switched mine for WTB Trail Boss. If you're still running tubes, just wait until you try the Hayduke with tubeless tires at lower PSI. It's indeed transformative!



> -I'm looking forward to customizing the cockpit. Grips, carbon bars, and a Thomson stem is what I'm thinking.


These are all good changes which I took care of on day 1.



> -This bike is fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. Fun. It has reignited my love for trail riding in a similar way that the fat bike on snow reignited my love of biking in general.
> 
> Thank you to all of you in this thread who sung the praise of the Hayduke- your gushing love of this bike helped me in making my final decision to get one. And I'm so glad I did. I love it.
> 
> ...


So glad to hear you've fallen in love with your Hayduke right from the get-go! You'll love it even more as you continue riding it and making changes to make it truly yours.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

Boo bear, how much do you weigh?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Congrats on the new Duke! Glad to hear you're loving it, and I agree with your observations - some bikes need to be ridden, not just analyzed on paper. 

And I wouldn't worry too much about the Fat Be Nimbles - they probably won't last long anyway.  I've been running a Trail Boss in the front and a Ranger in the rear and really liking the combo.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

tfinator said:


> Boo bear, how much do you weigh?


185 lbs. I'm running about 6-7 lbs heavier than I like, but I don't think that is what was causing the seat post issue. Who knows, maybe my post is just slightly off spec- I've read that even the tiniest variance can cause issues. I'll send Advocate a message and see what they think as well.

Thanks for the Hayduke love, all. As far as the getting used to the geometry of a new bike, I don't think that is much of a culprit in this case. The bike feels like an old friend already. The less technical trails I rode on Sunday were a hoot- bike went everywhere I wanted it to. I think one of the big issues on Saturday was the technical nature of the trails. They weren't mountain biking trails. They were hiking trails with stupid amounts of sharp, large rocks, in large numbers. Actually surprised I didn't tear one of the FBN's. That combined with me not riding a HT on such terrain for many years made for a very challenging ride.

I am considering putting a shorter stem on, was thinking maybe 60mm. I put a 50 on my fat bike last year and it really livened up the handling. Don't think I'd go any wider on the bars though- a lot of places I ride have saplings on either side of the singletrack that are 739mm apart.

As for tubeless, probably will convert over to tubeless. Though part of me was thinking, why bother yet? I was running the FBNs at 13 front and rear. Couple rim strikes in the rear, but nothing major. Might bump it up to 14 or 15 out back to see how that rides.

Funny. I spent the first 2 months of winter bemoaning the lack of good snow for fat biking. Now I don't want any snow.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Boo, 

We have the snow in the higher elevations and a couple trails down by the house have been damp dirt/sand. Kinda the best of both worlds.


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## tfinator (Apr 30, 2009)

I was curious of your weight because I can't always tell a big difference with different frame materials. I'm a bit heavy now too, but at fighting weight I'm around 145. 

Some production steel bikes may as well be CF or AL to me.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

tfinator said:


> I was curious of your weight because I can't always tell a big difference with different frame materials. I'm a bit heavy now too, but at fighting weight I'm around 145.
> 
> Some production steel bikes may as well be CF or AL to me.


Ah. Well, on road, it isn't even close. I had been riding AL for years on road and a year ago switched to steel. It literally took one pedal stroke and about 5 feet of pavement for me to feel the huge difference between steel and AL on the road- WAY less vibration coming through the bike to me. And I run 28mm tires at around 95 psi, so not super skinny/hard tires.

On trail I think it is less pronounced and gets a little harder to put in to words. I do find the ride to be more supple, but it's less pronounced with big, low psi tires on trail than it is on road. But, still there. But I find that there is also a quality to the steel ride that I just can't fully explain. Maybe it comes down to frequency- the frequency at which AL vibrates vs. steel, and how that relates to the harmonics of the universe, and the frequencies of the stardust we're made up of. I'm not sure, but to me there is something going on there, and whatever it is, I sure do gravitate to it.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Smithhammer- have you stayed with the Answer 20/20 bars on your Hayduke? If so, how do you find them on technical DH's? The more I read about this bar, the more intrigued I am to get one.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Nice write up Boo, should've pm'd, I had great rides down here in mass the last few days as well, could've been a mini Dukefest


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Congrats on the new 'Duke! 
Reading your write up, you're reinforcing my sneaking suspicion that my medium might be a touch on the small side, but it's still a great ride! 
If I had it all to do over again, I might have chosen a large and used a 50-60mm stem instead of the 70 I have on there. My dropper post is right at the minimum insertion line...

Los


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Boo Bear said:


> Smithhammer- have you stayed with the Answer 20/20 bars on your Hayduke? If so, how do you find them on technical DH's? The more I read about this bar, the more intrigued I am to get one.


Yup - still using the Answer 20/20. It's a great bar, and I don't think it gives up anything at all to a bar with less sweep on techy downhills. Once I got used to it (which took about 5 min.) I never thought about it again. YMMV, of course.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

sslos said:


> Reading your write up, you're reinforcing my sneaking suspicion that my medium might be a touch on the small side, but it's still a great ride!
> If I had it all to do over again, I might have chosen a large and used a 50-60mm stem instead of the 70 I have on there. My dropper post is right at the minimum insertion line...
> 
> Los


Los: Don't know about your stats, but for comparison purposes, I am 5'10", 34" inseam (book in crotch method), 25" torso, 175 lb. I went with a large frame and switched to a 45mm stem with a 760mm wide carbon handlebar. The fitment is perfect plus the handling is spot on. I haven't gone with a dropper seatpost yet, but I'm saving my pennies to buy the new Fox Transfer with 125mm travel.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Chris Pringle said:


> Los: Don't know about your stats, but for comparison purposes, I am 5'10", 34" inseam (book in crotch method), 25" torso, 175 lb. I went with a large frame and switched to a 45mm stem with a 760mm wide carbon handlebar. The fitment is perfect plus the handling is spot on. I haven't gone with a dropper seatpost yet, but I'm saving my pennies to buy the new Fox Transfer with 125mm travel.


We're about the same size.
If you haven't used a dropper yet, you're in for a treat!

Los


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

Its been informative reading the evolution in this thread and I am STOKED to throw a leg over a Hayduke.

Not sure if anyone here has the experience, but I am imagining by the numbers and look, this kind of seems like a steel version of the 2nd generation Mukluk - which IMHO was a sleeper of a RAD trail capable bike. Can anyone confirm or deny this? It would make sense considering Tim K. was designing for Salsa at the at point before this venture.

I would have caution though, throwing a 'Dukefest' may insinuate something completely alternative to the intended celebratory attributes of das bike... 'Just sayin' ;-)


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

I do believe that Tim was involved with the newer generation of Mukluks and I'm pretty sure he is responsible for the Blackborrow, which influenced the geo of the newer 'luks. That said, perhaps you should be comparing to the Watchman rather than the Hayduke.


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## BroJangles (Aug 25, 2014)

I should have clarified... I know the Watchman is to the Mukluk in terms of fat-bike-ness - but I was curious to know if the Hayduke felt like the Muk on trail... with its similar GEO and bad-assery... 

As per usual... Any and all banter is greatly appreciated - !-)


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

BroJangles said:


> I should have clarified... I know the Watchman is to the Mukluk in terms of fat-bike-ness - but I was curious to know if the Hayduke felt like the Muk on trail... with its similar GEO and bad-assery...


I have not ridden this year's Muk, which is a significant redesign, but I would have that the Hayduke has a sportier feel than what the Muk used to be up until last year. Largely due to the shorter chainstays and wheelbase.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Response from Advocate re: slipping seatpost*

So it wasn't just me....

Also, very cool they gave me a credit for the collar. My experience with this company has been top-notch, and special. Unusual to get the level of service I've gotten in today's environment. Advocate's response below:

Thanks for the message and sorry to hear that you had the issue with your seat collar. We did have an issue with some of the collars on the Hayduke where they were allowing the seat post to slip down while riding, but thought that we had caught them all. It sounds like your frame still had a bad collar on it. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience.

The Salsa Flip-Lock should definitely do the trick and is a nice seat collar. You can tighten the quick-release pressure using the allen head on the screw from the non-drive side of the collar to get the correct tension to hold the post. It should work well.

The MSRP on the Flip-Lock is $37.00 so we've created a discount code for our web store in the same amount that you can use towards any order, and is good for one calendar year.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*I am so in love with this bike*

Got out for my 4th ride on the 'duke today. Holy crap. It was quite possibly the most fun I've ever had on a mountain bike. My skills on the hardtail were definitely rusty the first couple rides out, but they're quickly getting whipped into shape. Some musings from today's ride:

1) I was riding on new trails today- first time I'd ever seen them, and I was clearing obstacles and riding things that I might not even do on my full suspension bike. It was sort of weird really- my confidence was through the roof, and I could not get over how well I was riding at times. And the trail conditions were overall pretty good, but it was mixed- some ice, really packed snow, and leaves and dirt. A real hodge-podge. And the Hayduke didn't flinch an inch.

2) This is by far the most fun bike I've ever owned. It makes me smile and laugh out loud when I ride it. Really. I find myself grinning so much on this bike.

3) I think one of the reasons I'm riding so well on the Hayduke is that it is so engaging. This bike has really changed my views on full suspension. Honestly, I'm starting to think they're sort of lame- at least for trail riding. The Hayduke is making me realize just how much full squish sanitizes the trails. I can see how people say plus tires do a similar thing, but if they're on a rigid or HT, I don't think it's enough to dampen the experience. A FS though? It's like you don't even have to think about what you're doing. And a FS plus bike? Forget it. Why even bother? A friend of mine recently got a Stumpjumper fattie, and he was talking about how amazing it is- you can go so fast on it because it just goes over everything. I was thinking about that today- why would you want to do that? Where is the fun in that? I know we all have different tastes, and to each their own, but to me, mindless speed just isn't that fun.

4) I am so friggin' happy I picked the Hayduke. My criteria when I was choosing which bike to get was not speed, or weight, etc. What I wanted was the bike that would be the most fun. And I feel very confident that I chose that bike. It is just so...much....fun.

There's magic in that there seven-two-five.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Boo, you got that straight! While I don't have a Hayduke, I do love my b+ as the trail ride and climbing is outrageously good. For the peeps that think b+ takes away from the ride, they can have their b- or other -bike and I'll keep on keepin on, with or without em cause the absurdly playful geo of my Sergeant is superior. The Hayduke would have been my next choice had it been available at the time. Your #4 is the whole point of the b+! Keep at it and be safe out there...


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

I'm really liking the looks of this bike, as well as the company's philosophy.
The Hayduke appears to have a relatively low BB height, yet I'm not reading anything about pedal strike issues. I realize riding style and terrain play into this. 
Has this been a problem for anyone?


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

actually it's one of the things I've noticed about the Hayduke is that I've had NO pedal strikes which has been really nice here in rocky NE (gopats!)


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks for the response, Screamingbunny. Great to know!

Smithhammer, how about in that Teton region? I'm in Montana, so similar terrain to your riding, just probably not as steep.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Yeah, I feel like I've been having less pedal strikes on the Hayduke than on my Stumpjumper FSR. I am also in rock-strewn New England.


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks Boo Bear. I enjoyed your write-up above.
I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a Hayduke!


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

rlbruski said:


> The Hayduke appears to have a relatively low BB height, yet I'm not reading anything about pedal strike issues. I realize riding style and terrain play into this.
> Has this been a problem for anyone?


Running 3.0 WTB Trail Boss tires and there are ~13" from the ground to the BB center. I am running the stock 175mm cranks.

I completed a 70-mile cross-country ride on Sunday over hilly terrain with some rock gardens. No issues at all with pedal strike.

I understand your concern as you often read about pedal strike issues with plus bikes running similar BB height. The vast majority of reported cases, however, seems to be concentrated with full-suspension bikes.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

rlbruski said:


> Smithhammer, how about in that Teton region? I'm in Montana, so similar terrain to your riding, just probably not as steep.


On the rare occasions I've had a pedal strike on the Duke, it's been because I was being lazy/sloppy, not because of the bike. Braap!


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Chris Pringle said:


> Running 3.0 WTB Trail Boss tires and there are ~13" from the ground to the BB center. I am running the stock 175mm cranks.
> 
> I completed a 70-mile cross-country ride on Sunday over hilly terrain with some rock gardens. No issues at all with pedal strike.
> 
> I understand your concern as you often read about pedal strike issues with plus bikes running similar BB height. The vast majority of reported cases, however, seems to be concentrated with full-suspension bikes.


You're right on the full suspension part and that was my concern, because I have a Salsa Pony Rustler with WTB 3" Bridgers and have plenty of strikes. I'm thinking of pulling all of the parts off the PR and building up a Hayduke frame. 
I don't believe a 10mm longer fork would cause any issues. Any thoughts, anybody?
Thanks for the response!


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Great shots, Smithhammer!!
I'm sure it's not quite that warm there right now!😃
Thanks for the info!
It's sounding like the Hayduke may be a great option for me.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> On the rare occasions I've had a pedal strike on the Duke, it's been because I was being lazy/sloppy, not because of the bike. Braap!


Frankly, there isn't a bike that will not have a pedal strike from time to time, lest it stays on the street. I call it the price we pay to go Jeepin!


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

BansheeRune said:


> Frankly, there isn't a bike that will not have a pedal strike from time to time, lest it stays on the street. I call it the price we pay to go Jeepin!


Quite true!
BansheeRune, the RSD Sargeant is also a bike I've been considering. I'm just thinking I want to stay with the steel frame.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Dollar for dollar, the only way to replicate the extremely playful geometry of the Sergeant is to call Walt and have him fab a frame. With that said, I can look beyond the material and at the performance. That Hayduke that Smithhammer has shred many photos of is so damn nice looking that I wish there had been one available to throw a leg over at the time. Yeah, Smithhammer, ya gots a nice bike as do the many Hayduke owners. 

Jeep on, peeps!! :cornut:


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Rlbruski, running a 140mm pike on mine, demo'd a duke with a 120, MUCH prefer the way the 140 handles, brap BRAP


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## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

any haydukes setup SS in this thread? I'm curious about how well their SS dropout works.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

irv_usc said:


> any haydukes setup SS in this thread? I'm curious about how well their SS dropout works.


Haha! And here I've been thinking about going 12-speed Eagle, not getting rid of virtually all of them. 

Here is a pic of a Hayduke SS setup from Bike Rumor:








It looks like a solid SS build to me.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> ....That Hayduke that Smithhammer has shred many photos of is so damn nice looking that I wish there had been one available to throw a leg over at the time. Yeah, Smithhammer, ya gots a nice bike as do the many Hayduke owners.


Thanks, BR. I really love the 'Duke. Sad to see it sitting patiently in the shed right now. Gonna be a while, unless I suddenly say "**** it" and throw it in the back of the truck and bee-line for the desert....


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## irv_usc (Mar 16, 2011)

Chris Pringle said:


> Haha! And here I've been thinking about going 12-speed Eagle, not getting rid of virtually all of them.
> 
> Here is a pic of a Hayduke SS setup from Bike Rumor:
> View attachment 1120382
> ...


Yeah it looks pretty solid, I just wanted to get opinions and reviews from someone that's tried it. looks like the design pivots from the top bolt, is held in place with the bottom bolt, with the tensioner screw.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Haha! I'm working on a + & fat only trip to Moab for April. 

I can't banish Sarge to the shed, he'll throw my boney ass over the bars. Never piss off a bike!


Sent from over here to over there...


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2017)

BansheeRune said:


> Haha! I'm working on a + & fat only trip to Moab for April.


Sent from here to over there...

Oh is that so is it?? hmmmm already have PTO for april 24 thru 27 to do some hiking @ Pt Reyes.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Haha! I'm working on a + & fat only trip to Moab for April.


We are planning a plus trip to southeastern OR in late April (assuming Snowmageddon doesn't continue and block our route), but I'll be taking my '57 Willys Jeep, er, I mean the ECR, for that trip.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Smithhammer said:


> Thanks, BR. I really love the 'Duke. Sad to see it sitting patiently in the shed right now. Gonna be a while, unless I suddenly say "**** it" and throw it in the back of the truck and bee-line for the desert....


Yeah, it's gonna be a long, muddy spring in Idaho unless a major change happens soon.
Trying to get my wife to agree to a Moab trip for spring break! It would be nice to get the Hayduke out on some red dirt.

Los


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

nvphatty said:


> Sent from here to over there...
> 
> Oh is that so is it?? hmmmm already have PTO for april 24 thru 27 to do some hiking @ Pt Reyes.


Did Punkin approve it?

Sent from over here to over there...


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> We are planning a plus trip to southeastern OR in late April (assuming Snowmageddon doesn't continue and block our route), but I'll be taking my '57 Willys Jeep, er, I mean the ECR, for that trip.


Hope for the best with Punxsutawney being the jerk he is!



sslos said:


> Yeah, it's gonna be a long, muddy spring in Idaho unless a major change happens soon.
> Trying to get my wife to agree to a Moab trip for spring break! It would be nice to get the Hayduke out on some red dirt.
> 
> Los


If it keeps going like it is, April will be dry.
Hope you can get a Moab run through ways and means committee!

Sent from over here to over there...


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

sslos said:


> Yeah, it's gonna be a long, muddy spring in Idaho unless a major change happens soon.
> Trying to get my wife to agree to a Moab trip for spring break! It would be nice to get the Hayduke out on some red dirt.
> 
> Los


No kidding. The Tetons have been getting pummeled lately. We bought a camp trailer last fall, and at the rate things are piling up, I'm going to be glad if I can dig that thing out by June....

Good luck on the Moab mission and looking forward to the pics!



BansheeRune said:


> Hope for the best with Punxsutawney being the jerk he is!


That little prick!! :incazzato:


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## Guest (Feb 9, 2017)

BansheeRune said:


> Did Punkin approve it?


yup i got the punkin patch of approval.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Some new parts*

Replaced the stock Raceface cockpit with:

Carver MyTi Carbon bars
Ragley 50mm stem 
ESI Chunky grips

I originally wanted to get the Answer 20/20 bar, but nobody has them, and per Hayes, they won't be getting out to distributors til spring. So I found this option and am giving it a go. Shaved off 203 grams total (which wasn't the purpose of the swap, but a nice tangential benefit.)

Oddly, the 710mm Carver bars look no less wide than the 750mm Raceface. :skep:


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Nice upgrades. 

And I've found similar results holding up several different bars that are supposedly longer against the Answer 20/20, but they clearly aren't in reality.


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

As of today, I'm officially a "Duker"!
I picked up a "used but looks new" Hayduke Titanium frame that I will start building up when I get a break from work. I'm going to transfer what I can (which is almost everything, I think) from my Pony Rustler and then sell that frame. Looking forward to getting it rolling and throwing a leg over it!! 

I appreciate all of the you people's help in getting to the point of making the decision to go with the Hayduke. And then I just happened to find one for sale 2 hours from where I live. It was meant to be!!


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Congrats, rlbruski! Looking forward to seeing the build.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

rlbruski said:


> As of today, I'm officially a "Duker"!
> I picked up a "used but looks new" Hayduke Titanium frame that I will start building up when I get a break from work. I'm going to transfer what I can (which is almost everything, I think) from my Pony Rustler and then sell that frame. Looking forward to getting it rolling and throwing a leg over it!!
> 
> I appreciate all of the you people's help in getting to the point of making the decision to go with the Hayduke. And then I just happened to find one for sale 2 hours from where I live. It was meant to be!!


Gratz!


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks guys! I'm looking forward to it!!


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Nice, we keep going like this we may HAVE to have a "Dukefest"


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

I should just upgrade to the ti frame, swap everything over, and be done with it....


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## rbirch333 (Feb 20, 2017)

*Help*

Hi, my name is Bob, and I got into mountain biking a year ago on a 2012 trek marlin. I have been looking at the hayduke since summer and I just put my order in for a frame, and this is the first time building a bike from the ground up. I just wanted to confirm a couple parts before I purchase these parts.
I have a 1.5 to 1 1/8 tapered steerer tube with 51mm offset. Is this the correct headset.
Cane Creek 40 ZS44/EC44 Headset Tapered > Components > Headsets > Complete Headsets | Jenson USA
And I have a race face aeffect crank with 24mm spindle and boost, would this be the correct bottom bracket 
Race Face BB92 X-Type Bottom Bracket > Components > Drivetrain > Press Fit | Jenson USA

Thanks for the help, I'm sure I'll have more questions as I start building this bike.
Bob


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

looks right to me Bob, good luck, lets see it when she's done


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

rbirch333 said:


> Hi, my name is Bob, and I got into mountain biking a year ago on a 2012 trek marlin. I have been looking at the hayduke since summer and I just put my order in for a frame, and this is the first time building a bike from the ground up. I just wanted to confirm a couple parts before I purchase these parts.
> I have a 1.5 to 1 1/8 tapered steerer tube with 51mm offset. Is this the correct headset.
> Cane Creek 40 ZS44/EC44 Headset Tapered > Components > Headsets > Complete Headsets | Jenson USA
> And I have a race face aeffect crank with 24mm spindle and boost, would this be the correct bottom bracket
> ...


Offset is referring to the fork itself. As for the bottom bracket, check with Advocate as to the shell width of your frame. If you chuck the plastic tube, you can use it provided your frame requires a press fit BB.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Bob, your parts are right on target.

Here's the frame spec from Advocate... http://advocatecycles.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/FrameSpecs_Hayduke-1.pdf


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## rbirch333 (Feb 20, 2017)

BansheeRune said:


> Bob, your parts are right on target.
> 
> Here's the frame spec from Advocate... http://advocatecycles.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/FrameSpecs_Hayduke-1.pdf


Awesome thanks. I was using that frame spec sheet pdf to check things. And for any who has built one, is the headset faced ready to go press in the headset? Or should I expect to need to face it or at least have my LBS face it.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

mine was fine to press in from the factory


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## rbirch333 (Feb 20, 2017)

*Hayduke on a Budget*

So I've been wanting to get a 27.5+ for awhile now a really wanted the hayduke but my budget wasn't 2500. So I started to look into a Marin Pine mountain 1 and Jamis dragonslayer sport, they were more my budget. Then 3 weeks ago decided I'm going to build my own bike, having no idea what I was getting into and what the components were and how they matched up to each other. So with some Internet research, a few parts from the LBS and a few take off parts I hunted down, I built this for about 1800
Rockshox recon silver 29/27.5+
Sram GX1 derailleur 
Sram GX shifter 
RaceFace aeffect crank w/ 30t
Sram 11 speed 10-42 cassette
Sram guide r brakes 
RaceFace ride bars 
RaceFace aeffect stem 
RaceFace ride seat

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzOJqLwSxpsLSU9NSHlUNGx4Q0E/view?usp=drivesdk

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzOJqLwSxpsLVGo4Z1Y2N2VNTm8/view?usp=drivesdk

And like anyone who gets a new bike it's raining/snowing outside.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

For having no idea what you were getting in to, I'd say you came out on the other side with a pretty sweet bike! Nicely done, Bob.:thumbsup:


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Great job, rbirch!!  
I have my Hayduke frame sitting in the basement, I just have to get started building it up!! Dang work, getting in the way! 


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*First ride impressions with MyTi bar and 50mm stem*

Finally got to take the Hayduke out on some trails I'm familiar with yesterday. Also my first ride with the new cockpit.

Carver MyTi carbon bars: I think I really like them. They felt a little odd at first, with their 29 degrees of backsweep, but it didn't take too long to get used to them. They are pretty flexy, which I actually like, because the eat up a lot of trail chatter. My hands and wrists were not sore after the end of a pretty brutal 75 minutes of trail. My hands and wrists had been a little sore with the stock bars and stem after similar length rides on way smoother trail. So I think this is a win. They do feel a little squirrely on DH's, but nothing I can't live with. I'm not super aggressive anyway. Also, I wish they had some upsweep, but I do have some stem and a spacer above them, so I'll raise them up and see how it is.

50mm stem: I like the shorter stem. It has livened up already lively steering. The steering response is very quick now without being twitchy. I do not think I'd want to go any shorter though. I think 50 is about as short as one would want to go on this bike. If I could go back in time, maybe I'd get a 60mm stem. But I'm happy as is for now.

Last night's ride beat the buh-jeezus out of my back though. My lower left has been a little cranky for a while, even on the FS last year, but this was an all new level of ache and pain. It feels fine today after rest and stretching, but man, there were times on the ride I was thinking "Am I too old for a HT?" So I ordered a Thudbuster today. Hopefully that will take the edge off on the harsher trails enough to save my back.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

Boo Bear said:


> Carver MyTi carbon bars: I think I really like them. They felt a little odd at first, with their 29 degrees of backsweep, but it didn't take too long to get used to them. They are pretty flexy, which I actually like, because the eat up a lot of trail chatter. My hands and wrists were not sore after the end of a pretty brutal 75 minutes of trail. My hands and wrists had been a little sore with the stock bars and stem after similar length rides on way smoother trail. So I think this is a win. They do feel a little squirrely on DH's, but nothing I can't live with. I'm not super aggressive anyway. Also, I wish they had some upsweep, but I do have some stem and a spacer above them, so I'll raise them up and see how it is.
> 
> 50mm stem: I like the shorter stem. It has livened up already lively steering. The steering response is very quick now without being twitchy. I do not think I'd want to go any shorter though. I think 50 is about as short as one would want to go on this bike. If I could go back in time, maybe I'd get a 60mm stem. But I'm happy as is for now.


The squirrelly handling might have to do with the combo of 710mm handlebars and 50mm stem. For that stem length, >750mm handlebar would be more appropriate. I agree 60-70mm stem would work well with your bars.



> Last night's ride beat the buh-jeezus out of my back though. My lower left has been a little cranky for a while, even on the FS last year, but this was an all new level of ache and pain. It feels fine today after rest and stretching, but man, there were times on the ride I was thinking "Am I too old for a HT?" So I ordered a Thudbuster today. Hopefully that will take the edge off on the harsher trails enough to save my back.


Sorry to hear about the lower back pain. If you haven't, yet, try running your tires tubeless which might allow you to run a little lower pressure (i.e., more compliance with plus tires) especially if your style of riding is not too aggressive.

I have never been a fan of Thudbuster for mountain biking, although I think they're great for off-road touring and gravel riding where one is forced to remain seated for long periods. Varying the saddle height or getting it completely out of the way (i.e., via dropper post) so you can improve on proper technique: flex your legs, arms and stretch your back more seems more appropriate, IMHO.

If you prefer riding with a backpack or camelbak, stop until your back pain goes away. Also, night-riding when it's colder and harder to see through obstacles seems to cause more muscle spasms and make worse any back pain.

I also deal with episodes of lower back pain, although mine is muscle-related. Lots of leg stretching, faster cadence while riding, seems to do the trick to keep it at bay.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Chris, good thoughtful response, well done. Gotta agree with you on the short stem thing, if you're gonna run a short stem you HAVE to pair it with very wide bars, it's all about leverage. Boo keep in mind that the biggest advantage of that short stem is to move your riding position back on the bike. This provides a lot of confidence in not going over the handle bars but it also unweights your arms and shifts the weight to your back end, so maybe exacerbating any back issues you may already have.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Thanks for the thoughtful response. I know the MyTi bar is listed as more narrow than the 750s that came on the Hayduke, but if you look at the picture above in this thread, you can see that they are essentially the same width, the Carvers just sweep back. The extra squirelly-ness isn't enough to be a concern, and is offset by the increased steering response, for my purposes. I also think that they may not be quite as squirelly as I felt on the first ride with them, as I'm still getting used to the different sweep/hand position. 

A lot of my back pain is muscular in nature as well. I'm having an issue with my left quadratus lumborum, some tightness in the hip flexors (related compensation issue between the two), as well as some hip thing going on- possibly TFL but can't pinpoint it yet. I stretch, roll, see a chiro- pretty up on self-care. I'm also a certified personal trainer, so have a bit more insight on it than the average Joe. I just have a lot more aches and pains since I've entered my 40's than I did beforehand, and a very rough trail on the 'Duke just amplifies it. 

The reason I'm trying the Thudbuster is the myriad reviews from people saying it reduced back pain significantly on their hardtails. I figure $150 is cheap money for something that may potentially have a very positive impact on riding enjoyment and physical well-being. If I don't like it, I can always sell it. I am out of the saddle a fair amount as it is, using soft elbows and knees as suspension. I started in MTB on a steel rigid, went to HT, then finally FS in 2009. However, I'm in New England, we specialize in roots and rocks in these parts, and I'd like to sit down now and then during a ride. Hoping the Thudbuster allows me to sit for some of the lesser roots, etc. We'll see though, I'm definitely a little weary of a seat that moves while I'm riding. 30 years of riding bikes with a fixed saddle- I'm sure it's going to be a little weird. 

I get it tomorrow- am doing 2 rides this weekend, so will report back with my impressions/results.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Thudbuster - first impressions*

I got in my first ride with the Thudbuster today, just under an hour of riding. I was blown away at the difference that it made. Absolutely no back discomfort at all on this ride. I was also impressed out how little I noticed the seat moving when riding, through any trail conditions.

I also am getting a lot more comfortable with the new bar/stem set-up the more I ride it. I was riding a lot of new trails today, so I had to make a fair amount of quick reactions, and the bike handling was great- precision instrument.

The more I ride this bike, the more impressed I am with it. And with the carbon bars and the Thudbuster, I'm starting to feel like I'm really getting it dialed in for comfort and performance. The Thudbuster, in this first ride anyway, seemed to act like the perfect amount of short travel to provide greater comfort, while still letting the 'Duke act like the badass HT that it is- climbs like a goat!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I have to start reading this thread from the beginning to look for an answer but maybe someone can jump in? Have you experimented on Hyduke with skinnier tires than 2.8? If you did, what is the tire model please.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Zoran said:


> I have to start reading this thread from the beginning to look for an answer but maybe someone can jump in? Have you experimented on Hyduke with skinnier tires than 2.8? If you did, what is the tire model please.


Well, just put the 29" wheels back on yesterday to try them again (2.3 Maxxis High Roller II front, 2.3 Specialized Ground Control rear.) I normally use 2.8 Rangers.
While I thought I'd feel faster on the climb, I don't think I did. And I missed the traction on the descent.
I know you're probably asking about smaller 27.5" tires, so it's not quite analogous, but if anything I'm wanting 3.0, not narrower after yesterday's ride.

Los


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Zoran, that would be akin to riding in wingtips...


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Thank you.
Yes I was asking about Scraper i45 rims and what will be the skinnier tire you can put on but not look like jerk.  

I would like to do some commute on it until I have enough money for second bike. I depleted all my funds. Looks like the most reasonable will be 27.5 plus 2.8. Everything else will be too bad?


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Zoran, that would be akin to riding in wingtips...


I know ...
:-(
It is bad but I have only one bike and I have to bridge small time gap. i sold my ski gear and few jackets to get Hayduke and now I am in trouble. But kind of happy i have my new bikepacking rig.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Zoran said:


> I know ...
> :-(
> It is bad but I have only one bike and I have to bridge small time gap. i sold my ski gear and few jackets to get Hayduke and now I am in trouble. But kind of happy i have my new bikepacking rig.


I just had to pull your chain.

On a serious note, a friend of mine has a first year Krampi with rabbi holes that he's run Ardent 2.4's on without issue. I think, of Maxxis tires the Ardent was a wee bit fat for a 2.4. They didn't look too outta place on that bike.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Zoran said:


> Thank you.
> Yes I was asking about Scraper i45 rims and what will be the skinnier tire you can put on but not look like jerk.
> 
> I would like to do some commute on it until I have enough money for second bike. I depleted all my funds. Looks like the most reasonable will be 27.5 plus 2.8. Everything else will be too bad?


For commuting I'd take a look at the Schwalbe Super Moto-X RaceGuard. It's a 27.5x2.8 tire with a tread that is more appropriate for tarmac. It's "e-bike ready", so I don't know what implications that has for weight, but looks like it'd be a better option than running knobbies on tar.

https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/road_tires/super-moto-x


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Thank you both again.

I wonder what do you think if it's Ok to put Schwalbe Super Moto-X RaceGuard 2.4 on i45mm rims instead? Price is so good but I need your opinion.

Or should I call Schwalbe to be safe? Hopefully I will get on the phone someone who knows stuff. That is why this forum is so good. people experiment a lot and think differently than official reps or techs.

Schwalbe Super Moto-X MTB Tyre - GreenGuard | Chain Reaction Cycles


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Here's another option from Schwalbe. G-One 2.8

https://www.schwalbetires.com/node/5149

Lighter weight 790g vs. 910. Both in Raceguard. LiteSkin version is 655g
Saves fuel! :cornut:


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

The Moto GreenGuard is 2.4, the RaceGuard is 2.8. 

I'd think you could run the 2.4 on a 45mm rim, but the tire profile will be different- lower/wider. 

Personally, I'd rather run a 2.8 than a 2.4 just because I likes the fat. Life is too short for skinny tires.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Boo Bear said:


> The Moto GreenGuard is 2.4, the RaceGuard is 2.8.
> 
> I'd think you could run the 2.4 on a 45mm rim, but the tire profile will be different- lower/wider.
> 
> Personally, I'd rather run a 2.8 than a 2.4 just because I likes the fat. Life is too short for skinny tires.


Werd!!

Bought a +bike to enjoy da +...
gonna order a pair of the G-Ones for Sarge cause they look like an awesome street session tore for +bikes.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

I couldn't look my Hayduke in the face if I put minus tires on it.:nono:


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Smithhammer said:


> I couldn't look my Hayduke in the face if I put minus tires on it.:nono:


Please don't say that!  Hey! You are one of our Gurus here! You encourage all to experiment and break all the rules and stigmas.

No worries ... I will will go with 2.8 gravel tires. I need them for some of my gravel multiday rides this season anyway.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Zoran said:


> Please don't say that!  Hey! You are one of our Gurus here! You encourage all to experiment and break all the rules and stigmas.


Guilty as charged! But there are some personal lines with my Hayduke that can't be crossed. It would be the equivalent of kicking a puppy.

But I encourage others to do whatever the hell they want! Rules are for fools!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I have so many questions about Hayduke. Don't know where to start! But I have to wait short time.

I need your opinion badly. Bike is right now on the way to me and I have to work on it to make it perfect! 

Then trips will come soon! Can't wait ...


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Dang, I've got my Hayduke frame just sitting in the basement ready to start getting built up. All this talk gets me excited to get going on it, but I need to make the time............and pick up some parts and pieces!!😃


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Hi folks!

So I'm really excited to build up a Hayduke frame from Advocate in a few weeks. I'm honored to be an ambassador for them this season and get that bike out for a ton of trail riding and long distance bikepacking (I'm in a tent down in Patagonia right now having just ridden down here from Alaska on all the trails I could find over the last 3 years and 30,000 miles, but did it all on a fully rigid Surly Ogre. VERY excited to have a more aggressive trail bike). That said, I'm trying to decide between their build kits and would love some feedback about some options I'm being given:

1. Fork: I can either go Fox Performance or Rockshox Yari. Any thoughts? Looks like Yari is travel adjustable 120mm-160mm and is upgradable. But perhaps the Fox is a better shock out the gate?

2. LX vs. XT. I've always chosen XT but am paying for the build kit myself so I don't want to spend money I don't need to spend.

3. Dropper post: seems like Fox's Transfer Dropper has good reviews. Any reasons NOT to go for that?

Finally: What upgrades have people made that have significantly improved versatility and handling of the bike as a whole? I'm seeing some posts about wider bars with shorter stems. Anything else? I'm 6'1" and about 185lbs.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts and feedback!

Scott Pauker
Welcome! - Spoke and Words


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

MettaBeats, can't wait to start seeing pix! Sounds like a sweet ride comin you way. Gratz Dood!! :thumbsup::cornut:


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

MettaBeats,

First, what a nice way to treat yourself after completing such an amazing feat of conquering the Pan-American, and off-road! Big congratz! 

As far as building your new Hayduke, here are some suggestions:

1. Suspension fork - I won't get into brands, but definitely do some reading in the Shocks & Suspenion MTBR forum as this will the single most expensive component you will buy. I am very pleased with the 120mm Reba that came stock with mine. One thing is clear for me on the Hayduke as far as fork travel goes: 

- 120-130mm travel is more than adequate for bikepacking, X-country/trail riding. 
- Go with 140mm if you enjoy and go often on more advanced and gnarly stuff.
- Over 140mm you're already exceeding the geometry design of this bike and will likely experience diminishing returns. 

2. Drivetrain - Shimano XT or Sram GX (take your pick given your budget), but either way go 1x11. Make sure crankset is Boost compatible. 

3. Dropper post - I have the new Fox Transfer and it's smooth, with infinite adjustment and most importantly, there's no play, something that affects many dropper posts available in the market even out of the box. Get the version with internal routing (Hayduke frame ready for it) and since you must buy the handlebar remote separately, get the one from Wolf Tooth. I bought both from Jenson USA. By the way, getting the right dropper seatpost length is really tricky on paper if you've never ridden the bike. I would highly suggest getting a cheap aluminum seatpost so you can play with the right length before ordering this expensive dropper post. 

What size frame are you getting and what rim/hubs do you have in mind?


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Chris Pringle said:


> MettaBeats,
> 
> First, what a nice way to treat yourself after completing such an amazing feat of conquering the Pan-American, and off-road! Big congratz! 
> 
> ...


Hey Chris,

Thanks for your reply. I was assuming 120-140 was the perfect travel range, so we're on the same page there. Any bigger and I'd be going FS on a different bike.

Just to be clear, the specific parts I wrote about were because those are my options from the Advocate people, choosing between two build kits. So really trying to understand if given new parts:

1. is XT worth the cost over LX
2. How do RS Yari and Fox Performance compare?

Thanks so much for your thoughts on the dropper post. Glad to know it's a winner. I feel that getting the saddle out of the way makes descending technical stuff on a hardtail incredibly more versatile. Glad to know the Fox is a good one.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

The wheels that come on it are Stans S1 wheelset. I hope it's solid, as it's new.


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## phidauex (Apr 17, 2013)

I've got to see some pics of the Hayduke built up with those 2.8 MotoX or G-One tires... I've always been a sucker for bouncy "urban assault" builds, and even the classic Hookworms can't compete with a 2.8 semi-slick like that.


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## Tranqui_Yanqui (Oct 3, 2011)

It seems like most Hayduke's are sold out on various sites. Probably means they are releasing an updated build/colors. Any info on this?


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

MettaBeats - are you opposed to running SRAM for the drivetrain? If not, I'd look at the GX as well. I have been really impressed by it on my Hayduke. One of the smoothest shifting and most usable gear ranges I've had the pleasure of thumbing through.


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

In my opinion, the SLX and XT lines are closer in price than in fit and finish. Performance wise, you couldn't go wrong with either. I went with XT because of biases from 25 years of working as a mechanic. 
As far as suspension, I have a FOX Performance with the FIT damper, and am very pleased. The Yari I demoed was uninspiring- clunky travel, vague adjustments, and a fair amount heavier than the Fox without major improvements to stiffness.

Los


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

schuster.ryan said:


> It seems like most Hayduke's are sold out on various sites. Probably means they are releasing an updated build/colors. Any info on this?


I'm not sure where you are looking, but just go to the Advocate Cycles website and order one, seem to have plenty in stock.


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## Tranqui_Yanqui (Oct 3, 2011)

They only have the XL as a complete bike. Frames seem to be available.

according to this https://www.kruegeroutdoor.com/collections/advocate-cycles?page=1


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

I'm going XT because it's more serviceable in Latin America. SRAM is harder to find.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks man. I decided on XT, not a huge price difference at dealer cost. And also the Fox shock. The Yari would take some upgrading to be more performance oriented. Fox seems solid right outa the box. BTW Whisky is my Yoga is one of the first stickers I put on my computer when I started my ride South almost 3 years ago. Chris Reichel gave it to me in Phoenix!


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

MettaBeats said:


> Thanks man. I decided on XT, not a huge price difference at dealer cost. And also the Fox shock. The Yari would take some upgrading to be more performance oriented. Fox seems solid right outa the box. BTW Whisky is my Yoga is one of the first stickers I put on my computer when I started my ride South almost 3 years ago. Chris Reichel gave it to me in Phoenix!


Glad you approve of my co-opting that saying! 
I think you're going to like that set up. Been riding mine as much as the weather allows right now. 
It's not the most "rowdy" bike out there, but plenty stable without being so slack that it would handle weird fully loaded.

Los


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## kwabbott (Mar 13, 2011)

I know this came up early in this discussion thread, but I was curious to see how everyone has been getting on with pedal strikes on the Hayduke. Is it still not a issue for most Hayduke riders here? 

That listed 60mm BB drop makes me worry a bit, but I'll take user experience over numbers any day.

Thanks!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

sslos said:


> As far as suspension, I have a FOX Performance with the FIT damper, and am very pleased. The Yari I demoed was uninspiring- clunky travel, vague adjustments, and a fair amount heavier than the Fox without major improvements to stiffness.
> Los


I really hope you will comment ...
On the website only Factory models have FIT4 damper. I was looking into FOX 34 to do upgrade one day. Maybe in Fall. Not sure when and should I pick 120 or go 140.
What is your FOx Performance model?
Your Fox Performance probably can fit 2.8 tires nicely? Could you tell me can you put original Panaracer tires after you changed fork? Also have you picked 140?
Thanks a lot.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

kwabbott said:


> I know this came up early in this discussion thread, but I was curious to see how everyone has been getting on with pedal strikes on the Hayduke. Is it still not a issue for most Hayduke riders here?
> 
> That listed 60mm BB drop makes me worry a bit, but I'll take user experience over numbers any day.
> 
> Thanks!


On the rare occasion I've had a pedal strike on the Hayduke, it's been my fault, not the bike's. I don't consider it an issue at all. YMMV.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Smithhammer did every pedastrike on a speed bump trying to get to the package store...


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Zoran said:


> I really hope you will comment ...
> On the website only Factory models have FIT4 damper. I was looking into FOX 34 to do upgrade one day. Maybe in Fall. Not sure when and should I pick 120 or go 140.
> What is your FOx Performance model?
> Your Fox Performance probably can fit 2.8 tires nicely? Could you tell me can you put original Panaracer tires after you changed fork? Also have you picked 140?
> Thanks a lot.


Okay, so I guess I should clarify a couple of things. I built this bike from the frame up, I opted not to go with a complete because I didn't really care for the kit.
Some of the OEM Performance forks came with FIT dampers. Mine is one that came stock off of a Salsa Pony Rustler. If you keep your eyes peeled, you can find them for considerably less than the Factory forks. The difference is the lack of a Kashima coating on the stantions (not a big deal in my experience) and no low-speed compression adjustment. Mine came set up as a 130mm, and I'm not sure I'd want it any longer.
With the Fox 34 Boost forks, you can easily fit any 27.5" tire out there, up to and including the 27fat tires from Maxxis and Bontrager.
I currently have 2.8" Rangers, but plan on picking up a pair of Specialized Purgatory 3.0s, I'll report back on how I like the bigger tires on here.
I hope this answers some of your questions!

Los


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Smithhammer did every pedastrike on a speed bump trying to get to the package store...


While steering with my feet and jrinkin a beer....


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Smithhammer said:


> While steering with my feet and jrinkin a beer....


Beer in one hand, hooter in the other... Man, you got it goin on!!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

BansheeRune said:


> Beer in one hand, hooter in the other... Man, you got it goin on!!


I stand on the shoulders of giants.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

My Hayduke with a few upgrades: i9 Hubs, WTB Trail Boss 3.0 tires, Fox Transfer Kashima dropper post, carbon handlebar, Specialized Phenom saddle (a lot comfier for me than the stock WTB saddle) and a few bling accents.

This hardtail performs solidly on the trails. It eats drops and rocky surfaces. It climbs loose stuff and goes over sandy with good traction. The geometry is spot-on -- hardly any pedal strikes for those with that concern. So far I have done a series of short ~25 Km/15 Mi. loops and a 115 Km/70 Mi. X-country endurance event. This bike instills confidence in virtually every situation.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

That has to be one of the best response post pictures I have ever seen on this site Smithy, I would have repped you but I got to spread it around first


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

dbhammercycle said:


> That has to be one of the best response post pictures I have ever seen on this site Smithy, I would have repped you but I got to spread it around first


Just trying to do what I can to keep things from getting too serious around here. 

And, to get back on topic, trying to figure out how soon I can get my 'Duke out on dry trails sooner than later. Full-on mud season and still lots of snow in the mountains around here. But if I can swing a 3-day weekend, it's within striking distance...


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Smithhammer said:


> trying to figure out how soon I can get my 'Duke out on dry trails sooner than later. Full-on mud season and still lots of snow in the mountains around here. But if I can swing a 3-day weekend, it's within striking distance...


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

More like....










@Chris Pringle - the white and gold Hayduke looks classy. And I agree with your thoughts. The only limitations I've found so far on this bike are things I probably shouldn't be doing anyway.


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

I'm running a Fox 34 Fit4 Factory at 120mm. It's handling good but I'm tempted to open it up and change the travel to 130mm. Anyone done similar?


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

adagioca said:


> I'm running a Fox 34 Fit4 Factory at 120mm. It's handling good but I'm tempted to open it up and change the travel to 130mm. Anyone done similar?


Mine is 130mm. Handles juuuust fine!

Los


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

adagioca said:


> I'm running a Fox 34 Fit4 Factory at 120mm. It's handling good but I'm tempted to open it up and change the travel to 130mm. Anyone done similar?


I've been thinking of swapping in a Fox 34 and doing the same thing...


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

My Pike is 140 and it's awesome, climbs fine and descends like a demon


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

So Advocate is setting me up with their XT build which includes the Fox Performance 120mm fork. Can that be opened up to a 130mm travel? Any thoughts?


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Anyone on this thread have a Large Hayduke that can do me a favor? I'm having a frame bag made by Defiant Bags but they need a photo of the bike with a tape measure running along the length of it so they can get a measurement to enter into their CAD program. I don't receive my Hayduke frame until early May and need the bag in hand by then. So any chance one of you with a Large could take such a photo and email it to me in the next couple days?

email is [email protected]

Thanks in advance!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Want inches or centimeters? I have my large Hayduke in front of my door now.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Wow! Thanks! how about both, if you don't mind. I don't know what they want. Obviously an easy conversion for them but they didn't specify. Thanks!!!!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

It will be great if someone else with Large Hayduke measure and then you will have two people measuring. Just to eliminate some error. But I tried my best. 

Later I will send you pics with centimeters also. I measured inner frame tight!

I measured tight: 22in x 15in x 26.5in

You have to take out half an inch of all this measurements to make it perfect fit.

My frame bag in not here yet but I am going to tell you measurements in next reply.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks man!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

My frame bag will be Ortlieb LARGE frame bag. https://www.ortlieb.com/en/Frame-Pack/

Dimensions of the bag are 19.6in x 11.4in x 22in and frame is (as I measured) 22in x 15in x 26.5in.

I believe it will be fine. I will be happy. It is hard to find perfect fit when you buy standard products. You have a great opportunity to make perfect fit and hopefully affordable price.

Can't wait now to see other people response.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

I only suggest you consider going zipperless. I've tried to remove as many zippers from my BP gear as possible. they always fail, especially on a bag that is used many times a day like a frame bag. That's why I'm going with the Defiant bags...


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Oh, one last thing, can you send a photo of the frame as a whole from the side, at the level of the bike? I'm not sure if the pic on the Advocate website is of a medium or a large and I want them to get the angles right. Thanks!


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Hey Zoran, 

Sorry for all the messages! so I just heard back from Defiant. They need a photo of the bike, from the side, with the tape measure laid down on the floor running just in front of the wheels, running the length of the bike... sorry to bother you but that's the shot I need...


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

here it is. I am also going to email you separately.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

MettaBeats said:


> Hey Zoran,
> 
> Sorry for all the messages! so I just heard back from Defiant. They need a photo of the bike, from the side, with the tape measure laid down on the floor running just in front of the wheels, running the length of the bike... sorry to bother you but that's the shot I need...


Sorry but I am not sure what they are asking you to give them? 
I don't have a long tape measure. Just short tape one from my wife's sowing kit. Sorry ... Maybe someone else can help. My tool box is very limited.


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## phidauex (Apr 17, 2013)

Zoran said:


> Sorry but I am not sure what they are asking you to give them?
> I don't have a long tape measure. Just short tape one from my wife's sowing kit. Sorry ... Maybe someone else can help. My tool box is very limited.


What they want is to make a drawing of the bike to scale, the cool thing about modern CAD software is that if you get a photo of the bike from the side, with the tape measure on the bike, they can use that to scale the picture and take every other dimension. Like magic. Ultimately it is simpler than you are imagining.

Of course, it's awesome that you are going through the effort for a stranger.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I see. Thank you. I like to help if possible. People are good around here.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

I totally appreciate the karma building Zoran!! That said, if I can beg beg beg you to try this picture thing once more, they need the shot to be of the whole bike from the side, not just the frame (it's for a bag that fits under the downtube, that's why...), with that tape measure extended along the bike in enough detail to read the numbers on it (no matter if the tape is a little shorter than the length of the bike). No worries if you don't have time. You already helped a ton. I'm just trying to get these bags ordered before I acquire the frame so I can head out on a trip immediately after I build it. (I'll only have a week turnaround from receiving the bike to heading out). Thanks!!!


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

This is the example they gave me to reproduce with the Hayduke:


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I will find tape measure which is long enough and take a picture for you. Could you tell me how long this tape is opened on this pictures? I will try tonight.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks again Zoran. I think it doesn't really matter how long the tape is opened. I think as long as possible as in the pictures I attached. But I assume they can still scale the picture to size with any length of tape measure so long as the photo is taken in the same way. Thanks!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Sounds good ... I will mail you tonight.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks! please send to [email protected]


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## rbirch333 (Feb 20, 2017)

MettaBeats said:


> Thanks! please send to [email protected]


Just sent you a couple pics of my large hope it works out


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Just to add - Rogue Panda recently announced that they have all frame sizes of Hayduke on file, and they make a sweet rolltop frame bag. No need to measure anything just place the order and tell them what size Hayduke you have.

:thumbsup:

_(I have no connection to RP. Just a very satisfied repeat customer)_


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Damn you smithhammer! Now I have more research to do!! I just went on RP's page and it looks good, also saves me about $30 from the Defiant price. I might pull the trigger. Lemme know if you or anyone else out there knows of any other seatpost bags that are made with some sort of rigid spine other than Defiant and Porcelain Rocket. I'm tired of the wag on my old and beat to **** Vischasa from Revelate.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

MettaBeats said:


> Damn you smithhammer! Now I have more research to do!! I just went on RP's page and it looks good, also saves me about $30 from the Defiant price. I might pull the trigger. Lemme know if you or anyone else out there knows of any other seatpost bags that are made with some sort of rigid spine other than Defiant and Porcelain Rocket. I'm tired of the wag on my old and beat to **** Vischasa from Revelate.


Ha. I believe Portland Design Works offers a rigid saddlebag support rack as well, similar to the PR. And RP makes a seatbag called the Picketpost that, while it doesn't have a rigid rack component, has additional straps that attach to the seatstays that greatly reduces wag in my experience.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I also sent few pictures. Hope you will make good decision. Good luck!


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## phidauex (Apr 17, 2013)

Sounds like Mettabeats owes Zoran a beer.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Beer will be nice!


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Next time I'm rolling North from Seattle through Vancouver, we'll have a Hayduke beer summit!


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Could you please tell me could any of the Tubus racks fit Hayduke with 27.5x2.8 tires? I reviewed all and recommended tire is 60mm. I believe 2.8 tires are 70mm.

Tubus you could still find on sale somehow. OMM racks are so expensive and I can't go that way.


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## MettaBeats (Mar 13, 2013)

Not sure to be honest. I've not looked into tubus and am not planning to run any racks with the hayduke...


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Thank you ...

You know when you scrap all kind of funds, to get new bike and then you end up with one bike! No commuter, no MTB and no gravel bike. My Hayduke is now all I have. I am not like my friend who, when i come, move his bikes around in living room, for us to have a seat and have a beer.  No space ...

I commute with Hayduke and for many looks weird. Oh well ... I love it and I like this buzzing sound Hayduke makes. I don't have ring bell anyway.


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

I finally got the Titanium Hayduke built up. Stole all of the parts from my Pony Rustler, with the exception of the headset and bottom bracket. Loving the ride so far!! :thumbsup:
View attachment 1138589


I'm not sure what happened. When I previewed my post, I thought the picture was right in the post.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

I did multi-day route on Vancouver Island on my Hayduke. It was my first trip on it and bike was strong and steady (no high speeds on it). You could see some of my pictures on Flickr ... Port Alberni BC to Victoria BC

I have question about tires again.
After reading article posted at Bikepacking 29x2.6 tires I was wondering could you tell me if 2.6 tires can fit on the 29inch wheels on Hayduke?

I read somewhere we can't go over 2.3 size tire on 29inch option.


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## MattCastle (Dec 2, 2016)

I have a 27.5x2.8 and 29x2.3 wheel set for my Hayduke. The 29x2.3 are WTB Vigilante's. I'm running a 2x1 set up, so I have a front derailleur. The 29x2.3 just fit in with comfortable clearance. There would be more clearance without a front derailleur. I wouldn't run bigger on my bike.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Thanks for your comment.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Any of you 'Duke boys planning on going to NEMBA Fest this year?


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Here is a pic of my titanium Hayduke that I finally got built up!!
So far, I am loving this bike!!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

screamingbunny said:


> Any of you 'Duke boys planning on going to NEMBA Fest this year?


I wish, but that's on the other side of the country for me. Seems like a killer trail network around there!

@rlbruski - Congrats on the ti 'Duke! I've got a hankering to upgrade my frame to the ti version one of these days. I have a few other upgrades in the works right now, tho....


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> @rlbruski - Congrats on the ti 'Duke! I've got a hankering to upgrade my frame to the ti version one of these days. I have a few other upgrades in the works right now, tho....


Thanks Smithhammer. I haven't ridden the steel frame. The Ti is great, but I'm not sure I'm discerning enough to really tell difference. Fantastic bikes, though!!👍🏻


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Anyone riding more squish on their Hayduke than 120mm?

I know technically that's what the bike is built for, but I'm thinking about going with a little more cush up front, like a Fox 34 140.

Reported A-C lengths for the Reba RL 120 are all over the place depending on what website I look at, but I'm measuring 525mm. A-C for the 34 140 is reported to be 545mm. I know a 20mm difference will slack the bike out a little more, but I'm fine with that, and really, 20mm doesn't seem like a huge difference. _And,_ the difference in height between a DHF 2.8" (what I'm running now) and a true 29er tire is more than that. Since the bike is rated for both tire sizes, I can't see how an extra 20mm would adversely affect the geo too much, nor cause undue stress on the frame.

Any input appreciated....


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> Anyone riding more squish on their Hayduke than 120mm?
> 
> I know technically that's what the bike is built for, but I'm thinking about going with a little more cush up front, like a Fox 34 140.
> 
> ...


Smith,
I'm running the Fox 34 130mm on mine, that I pulled off my Pony Rustler. It's the only length I've tried on the Hayduke, so I can't really compare, but handling, steering, etc feel just fine to me. I think the extra 10 mm slacks me out about 1/2 degree in head angle, so a 140 should slacken you about 1 full degree. A little slacker doesn't hurt in my book. Still handles just fine.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

rlbruski said:


> Smith,
> I'm running the Fox 34 130mm on mine, that I pulled off my Pony Rustler. It's the only length I've tried on the Hayduke, so I can't really compare, but handling, steering, etc feel just fine to me. I think the extra 10 mm slacks me out about 1/2 degree in head angle, so a 140 should slacken you about 1 full degree. A little slacker doesn't hurt in my book. Still handles just fine.


Awesome - thanks. That's what I figure as well. And given that it's a well made steel frame, I'm not too worried about any stress on the headtube from the slight angle change. Maybe if this was a carbon bike I'd be a more conservative.

Btw, I've been away from the interwebs for a couple days, and shortly after typing the above, I realized the "27.5+ 2.8" vs. 29er" example doesn't hold any water, for what I'm guessing are obvious reasons. I was just so tunnel-visioned on changes to the front end that I wasn't thinking. Derp.

Anyway, Fox 34 140 on the way. Can't wait...


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Recent Hayduke improvements:

Fox 34 Factory Boost 140mm fork
Maxxis DHF/HRII 2.8s
I9 Torch hubs laced to Scraper i40 rims
RF Next 3/4 rise bar
RF Atlas 50mm stem

The sum of the above has turned this bike into a hella fun trail ripper!


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Smithhammer said:


> Recent Hayduke improvements:
> 
> Fox 34 Factory Boost 140mm fork
> Maxxis DHF/HRII 2.8s
> ...


Looks great, Smithhammer!!
What size frame are you riding?


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

rlbruski said:


> Looks great, Smithhammer!!
> What size frame are you riding?


Thanks. It's a medium. I'm 5'10" and could have gone either M or L, but I prefer the smaller frame.


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## CDIDriver (Mar 27, 2007)

Would appreciate anyone to provide their experiences between the steel Hayduke and the Canfield Nimble 9. I have narrowed down my purchase considerations to the Hayduke, Nimble 9 and Spot Rocker. I parking lot and buff trail demoed the Spot Rocker, it is a very efficient peddler, very stiff for a steel bike, the seat tube angle is steep and the stack is a little low. I like the Nimble 9's lower standover, height, threaded bottom bracket, but not crazy about their drop-outs. My impressions from reading this entire thread is that the Hayduke offers a very refined ride and tubeset. Additionally I like the drop-out system, but not crazy about the press-fit BB.

Any thoughts, opinions or real world experiences are appreciated...I am usually very decisive, but I am very perplexed with which frame to purchase.

Also, I would be very interested in purchasing anyone's used Titanium Hayduke in medium 



nitrousjunky said:


> Congrats man! Let us know your thoughts compared to the ol Nimble 9 (after a little saddle time of course).


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## CDIDriver (Mar 27, 2007)

Would appreciate anyone on this thread to provide their experiences between the steel Hayduke and the Canfield Nimble 9. I have narrowed down my purchase considerations to the Hayduke, Nimble 9. I like the Nimble 9's lower standover height, threaded bottom bracket, but not crazy about their drop-outs. My impressions from reading this entire thread is that the Hayduke offers a very refined ride and tubeset. Additionally I like the drop-out system, but not crazy about the press-fit BB.

Any thoughts, opinions or real world experiences are appreciated...I am usually very decisive, but I am very perplexed with which frame to purchase.

Also, I would be very interested in purchasing anyone's used Medium Titanium Hayduke!

Quote Originally Posted by nitrousjunky View Post
Congrats man! Let us know your thoughts compared to the ol Nimble 9 (after a little saddle time of course).


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Rode some gravel*

My wife and I went out in search of gravel roads this past Sunday. We put together 20 miles of mostly gravel, with some pavement. I was pretty sure I want my next bike to be a gravel bike. After Sunday, I have no doubt. Hayduke was fine to let me know that I'll enjoy the activity- but looking forward to getting another steel steed for gravel next spring.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Hayduke got a cockpit upgrade:

Chromag Fubar Cutlass 780mm
Deity Cavity stem
Odi Rogue grips


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Boo Bear said:


> My wife and I went out in search of gravel roads this past Sunday. We put together 20 miles of mostly gravel, with some pavement. I was pretty sure I want my next bike to be a gravel bike. After Sunday, I have no doubt. Hayduke was fine to let me know that I'll enjoy the activity- but looking forward to getting another steel steed for gravel next spring.
> View attachment 1145287


Sounds like an Advocate Lorax in your future!:thumbsup:


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

bikeny said:


> Sounds like an Advocate Lorax in your future!:thumbsup:


I was thinking the same. I am interested in gravel bike I could use as my commuter too. Is there any insight why Lorax recently dropped in price? Just wondering is it going to be replaced with something new for 2018?


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Smithhammer said:


> Hayduke got a cockpit upgrade:
> 
> Chromag Fubar Cutlass 780mm
> Deity Cavity stem
> Odi Rogue grips


Do you find 780mm bars too wide? I really like your setup!


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Zoran said:


> Do you find 780mm bars too wide? I really like your setup!


I expected I would probably be trimming them down a bit, but after riding them for a few weeks, I think I'm going to leave them just the way they are for now. I really like the width and don't see any downsides to it.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

The biggest benefit for me will be to fit all things and Velcro straps nicely on handlebar (light, GPS, feedbag straps and handlebar straps). I line all nicely at home but as soon I am about to hop on bus or trail, they force me to remove all bags. 

Wider handlebars will make life easier.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Zoran said:


> The biggest benefit for me will be to fit all things and Velcro straps nicely on handlebar (light, GPS, feedbag straps and handlebar straps). I line all nicely at home but as soon I am about to hop on bus or trail, they force me to remove all bags.
> 
> Wider handlebars will make life easier.


There's so much real estate on that bar you could spread out deli slices and make snadwiches.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

Zoran said:


> I was thinking the same. I am interested in gravel bike I could use as my commuter too. Is there any insight why Lorax recently dropped in price? Just wondering is it going to be replaced with something new for 2018?


That would be my guess, that it's going to be replaced. Honestly, I'm not all that interested in the Lorax. My front runners (currently, subject to change 5,436 times), are the Salsa Vaya GX, Black Mountain Cycles Road Plus (hasn't been released yet) or their Monster Cross disc (also, not released yet), Surly Straggler, and Breezer Radar Pro.

The Black Mountain stuff has me the most intrigued- especially the Road Plus. Mike Varley sounds like a pretty cool guy. He describes the Road Plus in the same way that other cool guys here convinced me to buy the Hayduke without ever having seen one in person.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Boo Bear said:


> That would be my guess, that it's going to be replaced. Honestly, I'm not all that interested in the Lorax. My front runners (currently, subject to change 5,436 times), are the Salsa Vaya GX, Black Mountain Cycles Road Plus (hasn't been released yet) or their Monster Cross disc (also, not released yet), Surly Straggler, and Breezer Radar Pro.


Interesting. I was looking at the Black Mtn site just the other night and wondering if they would have a disc Monster Cross in the works. That bike would be on my short list. But for now, I love my Straggler.

Lest we stray too far off topic however, I had a blast on the Hayduke @ Park City this past weekend....


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

Dragons be here


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Colorado Trail!


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

KC!


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## ReXTless (Feb 23, 2007)

Elroy-Sparta, WI


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

From last Sunday's ride, through my drug infested den.....


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## sslos (Jan 6, 2004)

Selling my medium Hayduke frame, and the 27+ wheels. In case anyone's interested.
Med. Advocate Hayduke - Buy and Sell Mountain Bikes and Accessories

Los


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Hayduke island trail/urban adventure - Burlington, VT and Montreal, QC*

This bike is so much fun in so many settings.


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## Boo Bear (Aug 11, 2008)

*Surly ExtraTerrestial 29x2.5*

Anyone else super excited about this tire? I was just verifying whether or not the 'Duke could accommodate this rubber, and it should according the Advocate's website. Says up to 72mm clearance for 29's (2.8").

I've got some Frequency i23 rims currently built up with 150/197 hubs. I'm going to grab a couple XT boost hubs and have them built up for the Surly ET's. I think this will make for a killer gravel set-up on the Hayduke, which is my default gravel bike until I get a Fargo.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Boo Bear said:


> Anyone else super excited about this tire? I was just verifying whether or not the 'Duke could accommodate this rubber, and it should according the Advocate's website. Says up to 72mm clearance for 29's (2.8").
> 
> I've got some Frequency i23 rims currently built up with 150/197 hubs. I'm going to grab a couple XT boost hubs and have them built up for the Surly ET's. I think this will make for a killer gravel set-up on the Hayduke, which is my default gravel bike until I get a Fargo.


I saw a pair of em on a Guerrilla Gravity ripppin the trail in Arizona back in January. They actually look very nice and the bloke riding em said they have been very reliable and work well for street and dirt. If only they were offered in 2.8 as well as 3.0. :/


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## Mulcheese (Jan 1, 2012)

Hello all

I have read the posts and the Hayduke sounds like an awesome ride. I have an opportunity to buy a used Hayduke 27.5+ but first I want to ensure that it is the right bike for me.

I have been Mtn bikeing for over 20 yrs and I am starting to slow down. Years ago I was a weight weenie but those days are gone. Yet I still want a quality bike which is why I am leaning towards the Hayduke.

My riding ( 2-3 times/week) is almost entirely twisting turning single track. I will not do any bikepacking, as far as I see. 

The size also is questionable. I have not sat on the bike yet I will do that later this week. I am 5'7" 165lbs (inseam 30" book method) and right on the verge of a small/med. This bike is a med which is also my current bike size with 27.5 but it appears the the Haydukes geo has a longer TT. I wonder how this will fit?

I like the bike but I dont want to get something that would be wrong.

What do you think?

Pat


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

25 years of riding and been on my duke for a year now. Been through 2 other full suspension bikes in the mean time and have NO plans to replace the duke anytime soon, LOVE IT!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Mulcheese said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have read the posts and the Hayduke sounds like an awesome ride. I have an opportunity to buy a used Hayduke 27.5+ but first I want to ensure that it is the right bike for me.
> 
> ...


Throw a leg over it and determine if a simple stem change will do you right. It may be that top tube makes it not work out but going out and riding it should give insight on fit and tweakability. Good luck with the opportunity.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

BansheeRune said:


> Throw a leg over it and determine if a simple stem change will do you right. It may be that top tube makes it not work out but going out and riding it should give insight on fit and tweakability. Good luck with the opportunity.


+1. Haydukes come stock with a long stem and many of us end up switching it with shorter stems.

OP - If you are in between sizes, the larger M size might fit you better and it should give you more room in the cockpit. The new tendency in MTB geometry is actually much longer TT than what you see in the Hayduke.

One thing to keep in mind, IMHO, is maneuverability of PLUS bikes in general. They're totally capable of twisting singletracks, but they really don't like being pushed over a lot of tight switchbacks -- this is not their strongest suit, in my view. The plus tires along with longer wheelbase inherently react slower. That is simply to say, expect a learning curve on this aspect. They are a lot of fun in so many other ways, as you can see from all the photos in this thread.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

Mulcheese said:


> Hello all
> 
> I have read the posts and the Hayduke sounds like an awesome ride. I have an opportunity to buy a used Hayduke 27.5+ but first I want to ensure that it is the right bike for me....
> 
> ...


You should be fine on a Med Hayduke. Like Banshee said, it might just be a matter of some fine-tuning with stem length, etc (or not).

Now go get it and have fun!


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Chris Pringle said:


> +1. Haydukes come stock with a long stem and many of us end up switching it with shorter stems.
> 
> OP - If you are in between sizes, the larger M size might fit you better and it should give you more room in the cockpit. The new tendency in MTB geometry is actually much longer TT than what you see in the Hayduke.
> 
> One thing to keep in mind, IMHO, is maneuverability of PLUS bikes in general. They're totally capable of twisting singletracks, but they really don't like being pushed over a lot of tight switchbacks -- this is not their strongest suit, in my view. The plus tires along with longer wheelbase inherently react slower. That is simply to say, expect a learning curve on this aspect. They are a lot of fun in so many other ways, as you can see from all the photos in this thread.


Frankly, I need to practice my pivots as of late. My Sergeant is a very long bike that feels exceptionally good doing the fun things, like gettin trialsy.
Yup, they can have slower response time in terms of handling but with Hayduke's geometry, I see a very playful, trialsy bike.

Think Pat Smage when you ponder what was said above.


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

I'm considering a Hayduke. I've reached out to Advocate and they are still working on updating the 2018 info and they could not share anything yet. I'm also looking at a 2018 Jamis Dragonslayer Pro 27.5+ as the 2018 model comes with GX Eagle and a Fox Rhythm fork for MSRP $2499. ALso i'm looking at the Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead. Any thoughts on those other two and what might push me over the edge to get a Hayduke?

One piece i'm iffy on is that the Hayduke uses a BB92 Pressfit. I'd heard that if you have to have a PressFit then the BB92 is the best. Can anyone comment on noice from their Hayduke bottom brackets?

Jon


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

I've been on my Hayduke for over a year now, well over 1000 miles and zero creaks from the BB.


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## Smithhammer (Jul 18, 2015)

screamingbunny said:


> I've been on my Hayduke for over a year now, well over 1000 miles and zero creaks from the BB.


Same, though I don't have the stock BB on mine (I have a Chris King). Regardless, I think a lot of the PF complaints are pretty overblown. If you start with a good quality BB, and it's properly installed (which is critical), they work just fine in my experience across multiple bikes.

I've spent a fair bit of time on the Hayduke (which I own), the Pedalhead and the Dragonslayer.

The Pedalhead is a really fun bike that begs to be ridden aggressively and is seriously capable of handling about as much technical terrain as you feel comfortable throwing at it. On top of that, I think GG is a pretty cool company to work with and their level of customization when you order a bike is pretty hard to beat.

The Dragonslayer is a fun bike as well, but not as shreddy as the Pedalhead. It's a great bike for exploring, bikepacking and cruising around on trails that don't get too deep in the gnarly stuff.

And the Hayduke is somewhere in between those two. IMO, of the three it's the most versatile. It's really fun on techy singletrack if you set it up for such, but it's not so slacked out that you can't load it up for several days in the saddle and comfortably explore the backcountry on it. Bigger triangle than the Pedalhead too, if bikepacking is on your list of needs.

They're all great bikes that excel at somewhat different things, and I think it comes down to where and what you want to ride, and possibly whether you want something comfortable for loading up on multi-day trips. I love my Hayduke, and as soon as the Ti version is available again, I'll likely be swapping my steel frame for the Ti and be done with buying another hardtail for a long, long time.


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

Great feedback on all three. Thanks
Jon


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

Hiker74 said:


> Great feedback on all three. Thanks
> Jon


+1 on Smithhammer's feedback on those three bikes. The differentiation is spot on.


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

I can’t speak to the Jamis or the GG (although that Pedalhead looks fantastic), but I do have a Titanium Hayduke and it is an awesome bike. Zero noise from the Wheels Mfg bottom bracket on mine. Mine is currently just a frame (which is how I bought it), since I put the parts I was using back on my full suspension Pony Rustler before selling it..
It’s time to start buying more components to get it built back up and ready for spring!!

You can’t go wrong with the Hayduke! 👍🏻


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

Has anyone heard any feedback on what the 2018 builds for the Hayduke will be like?
Jon


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

I heard threaded BB


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

screamingbunny said:


> I heard threaded BB


Wonder if the steel watchman may be getting the same, if it is true?


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## rlbruski (Oct 21, 2012)

Hiker74 said:


> Has anyone heard any feedback on what the 2018 builds for the Hayduke will be like?
> Jon


I am not seeing or hearing anything Advocate Cycles related. It seems things are pretty stagnant. No action that I'm seeing on the website, etc. anybody else having any kind of communication.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

just the buzz I've heard through the reps. better steel and threaded BB. remember Advocate is a small operation, give them time and they will do you proud.


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

Better than 725 would only be 853 if Reynolds? When I massaged them they did indicate they were switching to Fox forks. True Temper I've heard no longer makes tube sets, Tange and Columbus are still out there though. Hopefully they will say something soon


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Any more word upcoming Hayduke frames, I can't get any kind of reply from Advocate.


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

No, i've tried many times as well. I heard from them last year and they only said that prices would be similar, maybe a little less and that they were switching to Fox forks. Its so intriguing given the specs and price, but if they don't even have a canned response the simply put on an email i'm not sure I want to buy a bike from them. It seems 3 years ago folks were saying they had great service. I'm not sure what has happened. I really liked these bikes, but I think i'm taking it off my short list for potentially buying. There's so many other more responsive companies selling Cromoly hardtails like Marin, Jamis, Kona, and Guerrilla Gravity.


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Looks like Advocate is no more, maybe sold and rebranded as Esker Cycles.......?


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> Looks like Advocate is no more, maybe sold and rebranded as Esker Cycles.......?


More input.... link to article? How, what, why?


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

dbhammercycle said:


> More input.... link to article? How, what, why?


No such article or more info, Advocate's website only has an email signup now, which signs you up for Esker Cycles email notifications - Advocate Cycles - 100% of profits for Advocacy. Because Bikes.


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> No such article or more info, Advocate's website only has an email signup now, which signs you up for Esker Cycles email notifications - Advocate Cycles - 100% of profits for Advocacy. Because Bikes.


I did go to the site and saw the email notification signup this morning before your reply. Other than that, I've seen nothing. Patience is not necessarily my forte when I need to know more...


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

I waited a long time to get anything out of Advocate about the Hayduke. The one reply I received late last year stated they’d know specs by mid April so me being a dummy waited for them. I ordered a Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead a couple weeks ago


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

nitrousjunky said:


> Looks like Advocate is no more, maybe sold and rebranded as Esker Cycles.......?


Another one ride the bus... Weird Al Yankovic...


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## nitrousjunky (May 12, 2006)

Got this info in an email yesterday -

As we look forward to another season of warm weather riding, we would like to share with you some exciting changes that will be taking place with Advocate Cycles. Up to this point, Advocate Cycles has been a labor of love for everyone involved. What started as an effort to make great bikes and give back to local, regional, and national cycling advocacy efforts has grown into a full bicycle line and an operational company that has given back successfully over the years. The reception from riders around the country and the world has far exceeded all of our expectations.

Along the way, we have learned that much of what we have created is working well, while other parts of our model are holding us back. In an effort to hang on to the pieces that are working well, continue to develop and deliver great bikes, and give back to the community, we are closing Advocate Cycles. Moving forward, we are working on putting all of our knowledge, experience, and willingness to give back to the cycling community toward a newly established bicycle brand, Esker Cycles.

We consider our experience with Advocate Cycles to be a positive step forward in both building top tier cycling products as well as giving back as much money as possible to the cycling community that makes it possible to continue doing what we love. In our time as an active company, Advocate Cycles was able to deliver $85,000 toward local, regional, and national advocacy organizations and deliver over 600 top quality bikes to passionate riders and advocates.

The rider following of Advocate Cycles and the outpouring of support for our bikes has been exceptional, and we will continue to stand by those existing products as we move forward. Parts, warranty, and tech support for Advocate bikes will continue to be honored and supported by Esker Cycles. If you are one of those riders that owns an Advocate bike, we cannot thank you enough for your support. You have helped grow the mission of cycling advocacy throughout the country, and you own a timeless piece of that story.

Looking toward the future of Esker Cycles, we have been hard at work developing the brand and bringing to market two bike models that will be announced later this summer. Please stay tuned for more details on the release of these models, the Esker brand, and the work that we will be doing to continue with our heritage of building great bikes and giving back to the cycling community in the same spirit that we started.

We greatly appreciate your help in growing our bicycle company—your support has been instrumental in the success of our mission and we very much look forward to having you join us as we move forward.

The Esker Cycles Team


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

What was the hold back? What does it all mean? Are they selling stock super cheap? Ok, so the last question is a bit of a joke. I guess I'll have to wait and see what Esker comes up with but I did like the idea of the Advocate non-profit brand giving back in addition to the rides they put out. Perhaps, that was the issue; that they wanted to put more into developing the brand and products and the non-profit status wasn't working to that effect? So, the last question is a real one, how is Esker differently able to be or to progress where Advocate was not? Will Esker have a similar goal to give profits to bike causes or other charitable causes? Will the headbadge be as cool as the fist of Advocate?

Shaking dice in hand... come on, daddy needs a threaded BB...


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

I really wish them well! I really wanted a Hayduke and I told them after inquiring for over 6months and not getting responses was difficult. It takes time to sell and buy companies. I ended up ordering a Pedalhead but I hope they do well. 

On an email exchange I told Esker that a red Hayduke would go over well. 😊


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## Mulcheese (Jan 1, 2012)

Well Tim held it together and kept it. Hayduke lives! 
https://eskercycles.com/pages/hayduke
Anymore love?


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

Tim is hardworking bike builder and I am also very happy Hayduke lives! I love my Hayduke very much and changed my approach to outdoor. After so many climbing and skiing injuries Hayduke is taking me to fantastic Canadian backcountry places.


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## Zoran (Jul 4, 2015)

New WTB Ranger is out: https://www.wtb.com/products/ranger?mc_cid=248aaa9ec0&mc_eid=6c55c5ca81

I am looking into 29 inch wheel upgrade on my Hayduke. Do you think 29 inch 2.4 will fit?


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## adagioca (Apr 28, 2004)

While the Hayduke rides fine, I'm looking into switching to a lighter hardtail. It would have been perfect for some bikepacking trips and such but not looking like I'll be doing that anything soon. Otherwise, a tad heavy for the fast short loop I'd want to use a hardtail frame.

Let me know if you are interested:
Large Advocate Hayduke - MTBR Classifieds


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## CDIDriver (Mar 27, 2007)

Has anyone confirmed the timing for availability with Tim or Esker? Also it would be nice to see the other frame colors.



Mulcheese said:


> Well Tim held it together and kept it. Hayduke lives!
> https://eskercycles.com/pages/hayduke
> Anymore love?


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## Hiker74 (Oct 24, 2017)

The build kits and colors are on there. Looks like a dark red (really sharp) lime green and a school bus yellow. The build options are on there too. $2000 with a Fox 34 perf and SLX drivetrain. 

Looks like one could get a full XT with Raceface dropper for around $2500 which isn’t bad at all. They also have a Fox 36 performance upgrade for only $100 which also is reasonable. 

Standard wheel set is a DTSwiss M1900 Spline. This is what my Guerrilla Gravity Pedalhead has in the 29r. I’m 300lbs and they’ve been great. 

My Pedalhead was right at $2800 with Pike 130, full XT and Raceface Atlas/Aeffect/GE2 Ergon cockpit. 

I’d expect a similarly equipped Hayduke with even the Fox 36 to still be less than my Pedalhead which is a pretty big deal.

Jon


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## ericjayowsley (Jan 26, 2015)

*Looking for a Definitive Answer*



Boo Bear said:


> Anyone else super excited about this tire? I was just verifying whether or not the 'Duke could accommodate this rubber, and it should according the Advocate's website. Says up to 72mm clearance for 29's (2.8").
> 
> I've got some Frequency i23 rims currently built up with 150/197 hubs. I'm going to grab a couple XT boost hubs and have them built up for the Surly ET's. I think this will make for a killer gravel set-up on the Hayduke, which is my default gravel bike until I get a Fargo.


Hello. I'm eyeing a new-to-me titanium Hayduke frame. I would be moving parts over from a 2017 Surly Karate Monkey currently in 29er-mode. I've read through this entire forum thread and feel great about the Hayduke as a platform for the type of exploring I want to do. The question has come up several times about someone looking to put a 29x2.4 or, as in the case above, 29x2.5 tire in the rear triangle. I have not seen anyone say, "Yes. It can be done." The frame spec sheet from the old Advocate site lists 72mm clearance for 29er tires. That seems promising, but I don't know if that is the measurement from tube to tube within the frame or the width of the widest tire that will fit. Someday soon I may add a set of B+ wheels, but I'll need to start with what I have. Currently running a Maxxis DHF 29x2.5 on 30mm internal rims, which measures out at 2.45" at the knobs that extend slightly beyond the casing.

Many thanks. I hope you all are still loving your Haydukes. Looking forward to joining the club. My Karate Monkey has been good to me, but the numbers on the Hayduke fit my body size a bit better and the weight savings and feel qualities of titanium will be a big improvement.


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

A lot has happened in the past 5 years since the original Hayduke (version 1) was discontinued… Plus tires is no longer a thing - VERY few frames actually have the spacing to run true 3.0 tires, MTB geometries have gone further LLS (long, low & slack), Advocate Cycles changed to a less cool sounding brand name that I can never remember, and, alas, we survived a trying pandemic.

So, who is still having fun on their Hayduke V1? Why have you kept yours or moved on? Any significant upgrades? Does it still live to its original hype or cult following?


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## wilson1417 (Mar 25, 2009)

Still have and ride mine. However, it gets a lot less miles these days. My main steed is a Stooge Scrambler, so still 27.5+ and rigid. To be honest the Hayduke has dropped too much in value to justify trying to sell it and it was a gift from my wife so its a keeper. When I do get on it, I always come back from the ride thinking how great it rides. Would probably still use it on rought bike packing rides like Black Conyon. My other bike packing rig is a Jones.


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## screamingbunny (Mar 24, 2004)

from a couple of weeks ago, still one of my favorites in the quiver, gets about 500 MTB miles a year


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## Chris Pringle (Oct 28, 2003)

screamingbunny said:


> from a couple of weeks ago, still one of my favorites in the quiver, gets about 500 MTB miles a year
> View attachment 2002706


I don’t think you can ever get rid of that Hayduke with the IMBA Special Edition paint job featuring a neat desert landscape. 

I also have the Hayduke at home which my partner rides now. But when I take it out for a spin, it reminds why this MTB is so awesome — high quality steel frame, Plus tires, 120mm suspension fork and its daring XC geometry. The Hayduke still has the right sauce for epic long rides on the trails. Sooo compliant, loves to eat rocks and roots for lunch and great traction to boot on mud or even sandy patches.


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