# WTB Phoenix



## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Picked this off the fleabay a few weeks back and built it two days after it arrived on my doorstep. I would imagine that, regionally, some of you may recognize this frame. So far so good! 

Frame: WTB Phoenix 

Fork: Kona Project Two (oh the SHAME!) 

Headset: WTB Momentum C
Stem: Tahoma with neat little WTB stickers all over it. 
Handlebar: Easton 
Grips: Sram 
Barends: nope 

Brakes: Altek 
Brake Pads: Kool Stop 
Brake Cables: braided metal ones 
Cantilever cable hangers: nope 
Brake Levers: Altek 

Shifters: Sram X-0 
Front Derailleur: Deore 
Rear Derailleur: Sram X-0 
Derailleur Cables: braided metal ones 
Cassette: XT 
Chain: XTR - Dura Ace 
Cranks: Race Face 
Crank Bolts: XT 
Chainrings: Race Face 
Chainring bolts: Race Face 
Bottom Bracket: UN-71 
Pedals: XTR 


Hub Skewers: XTR 
Rims: Mavic 217 Sunsets 
Hubs: XTR - 140mm rear 
Nipples: Alluminum 
Spokes: DT Revolution 
Tires: Ritchey Z-Max 
Tubes: black rubber ones 

Saddle: SDG Kevlar 
Seatpost: Easton 
Seatpost Binder: AMP


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

I was so happy with it that I put it on the car, took it to North Carolina, and threw it in the dirt. Repeatedly.:thumbsup:


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Gooooaaaaalllll!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

I really like the yellow. And the size. 
That would be a fun rider for sure. 
Great fall riding pictures......


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

That's a proper bike.


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## rudymexico (Aug 14, 2010)

I like the P2 fork...but for my Kona
\

Great bike!


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## RobynC (Feb 14, 2004)

Beautiful bike. Banana slug yellow?


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## MendonCycleSmith (Feb 10, 2005)

Not enough seatpost showing....

*ducks and runs from room*


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## fat-tony (Sep 6, 2005)

Looks like you rode at Tsali?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

My buddy used to say that those old speed kings were true to their name in that they were the fastest way to end up on your back in the brambles. I see you took them off when you went riding.:thumbsup:


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

fat-tony said:


> Looks like you rode at Tsali?


Fontana Lake gives it away every time. Good eye.:thumbsup:


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

92gli said:


> My buddy used to say that those old speed kings were true to their name in that they were the fastest way to end up on your back in the brambles. I see you took them off when you went riding.:thumbsup:


They are crap. They normally live on the commuter.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Ha ha, Gabes frame. Last Phoenix ever built!

Good to see it rebuilt and back on the trail so quick!


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Ha ha, Gabes frame. Last Phoenix ever built!
> 
> Good to see it rebuilt and back on the trail so quick!


and before that DMFT's. And before that Wild Bill's (who I think got it direct from Mark Weir).


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> and before that DMFT's. And before that Wild Bill's (who I think got it direct from Mark Weir).


Bill and Weir had that too? Nice.


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Very sleek and fast looking bike. 
I bet that thing just wants to rocket up hills.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Bill and Weir had that too? Nice.


Weir just sold it to WB along with one or two other frames. And if I remember correctly, at least one person owned this yellow one between Bill and DMFT. WB still has at least one in his quiver that he won't give up. I think at the time he bought 2-3 from Weir, one for him, and a couple others for buddies, (this one being one of the 2 or 3). Get all that?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Mavic sunset rims... sniff. i rode mine into the ground.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Weir just sold it to WB along with one or two other frames. And if I remember correctly, at least one person owned this yellow one between Bill and DMFT. WB still has at least one in his quiver that he won't give up. I think at the time he bought 2-3 from Weir, one for him, and a couple others for buddies, (this one being one of the 2 or 3). Get all that?


any 15in?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Weir just sold it to WB along with one or two other frames. And if I remember correctly, at least one person owned this yellow one between Bill and DMFT. WB still has at least one in his quiver that he won't give up. I think at the time he bought 2-3 from Weir, one for him, and a couple others for buddies, (this one being one of the 2 or 3). Get all that?


Ya, I'm writing it all down.

And to think, this bike could have been lost in the Weir fire.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

trailville said:


> Very sleek and fast looking bike.
> I bet that thing just wants to rocket up hills.


They do uphills ok....its the downhills they really shine on.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> They do uphills ok....its the downhills they really shine on.


although this one looks like it needs a longer fork so, as it sits, it's probably a nicer climber than descender.


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## 805MTB (Jul 4, 2010)

nice bike, i saw a yellow one on ebay not too long ago
maybe thats the one rumpfy is referring to?

what was the largest size they made of the phoenix?
i'd like to ride one sometime but doubt they made one big enough for me
agree with mcs about hiking up the post a little more haha


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

klasse said:


> nice bike, i saw a yellow one on ebay not too long ago
> maybe thats the one rumpfy is referring to?
> 
> what was the largest size they made of the phoenix?
> ...


Nuthin' slips past you buddy.

Just how tall are you?


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> although this one looks like it needs a longer fork so, as it sits, it's probably a nicer climber than descender.


It feels very stable on downhills, but then I'm used to EWR steering which most would consider twitchy. In your opinion, how long should it be? Come come, elucidate your thoughts!


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Gorgeous!


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## 805MTB (Jul 4, 2010)

Rumpfy said:


> Nuthin' slips past you buddy.
> 
> Just how tall are you?


6'3" with 34" inseam...my Rockhopper is 21.5" with 24" TT, fits fine
i'm just picturing the seatpost on my future Phoenix


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## mrjustin007 (Jul 22, 2008)

Love the Altek brakes. I have a set of the levers, but have never seen the v-brakes.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> It feels very stable on downhills, but then I'm used to EWR steering which most would consider twitchy. In your opinion, how long should it be? Come come, elucidate your thoughts!


It looks like a suspension corrected frame for a 75mm fork. It's probably not bad as is as it's not too far off.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> It looks like a suspension corrected frame for a 75mm fork. It's probably not bad as is as it's not too far off.


It is a 410 fork, so I'm good.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

klasse said:


> 6'3" with 34" inseam...my Rockhopper is 21.5" with 24" TT, fits fine
> i'm just picturing the seatpost on my future Phoenix


Then the Phoenix in this thread would have fit you correctly...providing you're ok with a few inches of seatpost showing.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> It is a 410 fork, so I'm good.


A 75mm Judy is about 450mm I think with little sag (~5-10mm).


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

Rumpfy said:


> Bill and Weir had that too? Nice.


Weir's was red and all ****ed up from being welded and re-welded.


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## ericb49 (Aug 11, 2006)

...nice cranks Dog ;-)


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> A 75mm Judy is about 450mm I think with little sag (~5-10mm).


450mm is nuts. I think that would rake this thing out and make it handle like a Pontiac Bonneville.:skep:

No dice.


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## trailville (Jul 24, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> A 75mm Judy is about 450mm I think with little sag (~5-10mm).


I think they were a good 20mm shorter than that. I Think my 63mm Judy was about 420 without sag. A 410-420 rigid should be a good replacement for a 75mm Judy.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I use this on mine and it feels great.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I use this on mine and it feels great.


 That would put your bottom bracket well above my paltry 11 7/8". I applaud you sir. I applaud you and your cast iron 'componentry'.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> 450mm is nuts. I think that would rake this thing out and make it handle like a Pontiac Bonneville.:skep:
> 
> No dice.


Hmm. I'll have to measure mine. But here's my Pontiac










and another I no longer have:










Yours looks "in the range" if you will, but does look a tad steep to me. My eyes could be off though. If it feels good, ride it!


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

It is your eyes. 

If the Phoenix dates from 1993,then wouldn't the suspension corrected frame be for an early "2 inch" fork, like the F1 and F2, Mag 21 and Judy XC or the Manitou 4? Other than graphics and dropouts, did the Phoenix go thru any geometry revsions over the 5 years? 

My AMP F1 is 420mm a-to-c and my F3 Carbon is 430mm, fully extended, no sag on both counts. The Prestige fork on my non suspension corrected Yosemite is 395mm. Unless the Phoenix geometry was revised sometime in it's life to accomodate the growing travel of suspension forks, then I think my 410 is spot on, and based on my bottom bracket measurements I'm inclined to think that revision did not happen. With the 410 rigid, my BB is almost 11 7/8" inches to the center of the spindle. If I put 30mm under the front tire, then my BB rises almost 3/4 of an inch, to over 12.5". That's EWR bottom bracket height and I wouldn't think that would be a good thing on a Phoenix.

Or am I wrong? :thumbsup:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Colker-vision.


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

They made a change sometime between the '94 and '95 years.... going from 1" to 1.125" steerer size and also slightly increasing the "suspension correction". Other changes that same year included some tweaks to the tubing (esp. at the BB shell).

EDIT: Just checked serial numbers and I should have said between '94 and '96... specifically somewhere between SN# 94304 and 96444.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

halaburt said:


> They made a change sometime between the '94 and '95 years.... going from 1" to 1.125" steerer size and also slightly increasing the "suspension correction". Other changes that same year included some tweaks to the tubing (esp. at the BB shell).
> 
> EDIT: Just checked serial numbers and I should have said between '94 and '96... specifically somewhere between SN# 94304 and 96444.


Can you tell me what the BB spindle height would be on the post 96 frames? The 140mm drops arrive in there somewhere too, I guess.

I'm not usualy this particular (I swear!) but I'm also not a disciple of all things WTB. I'm usually interested in bikes with more aggressive geometry. I've ridden some Phoeni in the past, but never for any real length of time. I've noticed as I get older I'm mush less inclined to hop up onto a picnic table, so maybe my bikes need to reflect that. All that said, I'd like to give the WTB a fair shake and make sure I'm giving it a fork that would do it justice. I dig it so far with the 410 and the BB seems to be a 'normal' height according to what I can find online so I think I'm good.

That Potts guy may not be such a flake after all!


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

Very late in the Phoenii's life WTB added 3 additional "in between" sizes (13.5, 16.5 and 19.5) to the original 3 (12, 15, 18). Here's a chart from 1999 showing specs for all 6 sizes. My '96 frame (not built up yet) appears to still match these specs.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Perfect!


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

mrjustin007 said:


> Love the Altek brakes. I have a set of the levers, but have never seen the v-brakes.


Was gonna say the same thing. The levers are rad, always wanted a set. Never knew they made brakes- looks like the same aesthetic and sensibility that made the levers so good.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

uphiller said:


> Was gonna say the same thing. The levers are rad, always wanted a set. Never knew they made brakes- looks like the same aesthetic and sensibility that made the levers so good.


I have 7 sets of levers and 3 sets of brakes. Alteks are great. 

As a matter of fact, this is my in-office playpen, of sorts. Get out of a crap meeting, and retreat to the office to fondle the green Alteks and a 910 hub. :thumbsup:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> It is your eyes.
> 
> If the Phoenix dates from 1993,then wouldn't the suspension corrected frame be for an early "2 inch" fork, like the F1 and F2, Mag 21 and Judy XC or the Manitou 4? Other than graphics and dropouts, did the Phoenix go thru any geometry revsions over the 5 years?
> 
> ...


For whatever it's worth, I measured my Judy today and got 17.25"/438mm axle to crown. Judys don't have much sag.


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

"Judys don't have much sag."

Unless they still have elastomers.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Colker-vision.


hmmm?


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> For whatever it's worth, I measured my Judy today and got 17.25"/438mm axle to crown. Judys don't have much sag.


Which Judy?


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

*Going strong!*

No changes really... Salsa liplock, because I sold the AMP that the other seat collar came from, and it didn't seem right to split that frame and collar. Purple as an inside joke, but it is neat with the Sunset rims so...

And the wheelset is new. NOS M910 hubs and Sunsets with DT Competitions.

It is a very nice bike to ride. That Potts guy does ok.

May 2011, North Florida:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Right on brotha!


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

Nice looking bike and a fun looking trail


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Great picture. You have been riding that bike for a while now. Has it become your primary rider.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Yes it is my primary bike, or at least was until the arrival of this about a month ago. I still imagine I'll be reaching for the WTB when I ride alone or with other like-minded riders, but when in a group filled with point-and-shoot, obstacle-be-damned riders all sporting full suspension, it's nice to have the travel too. RIght now the Turner is benefiting from the day after Christmas new toy glow, but I expect the Phoenix to rise up again (pun alert!)


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> Yes it is my primary bike, or at least was until the arrival of this about a month ago. I still imagine I'll be reaching for the WTB when I ride alone or with other like-minded riders, but when in a group filled with point-and-shoot, obstacle-be-damned riders all sporting full suspension, it's nice to have the travel too. RIght now the Turner is benefiting from the day after Christmas new toy glow, but I expect the Phoenix to rise up again (pun alert!)


that looks to be addictive..


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

colker1 said:


> that looks to be addictive..


Like a couch and a crack pipe.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> An east coast guy that has a heart filled with love for Yetis found his little California lady not quite his favorite ride. He gave it a shot though.
> 
> And that's what makes vintage bikes so cool for some of us. We all like different bikes so, at least for me, I've learned all sorts of things about bikes that I have once cared very little for such as Kleins, Americans and Fats. Now I have one and wouldn't mind having the others. They're all so different!  And that's what makes bikes so fascinating for me. So much you can learn from them.
> 
> Anyhow, everybody's got different tastes. I'm hoping I'm the only one that likes LBPs. eh hem. right.


Little Beople's Pikes are so cool.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Nice phoenix! I love mine too. I only know of ONE person that didn't like his phoenix. 

What is a utahdog doing in florida?


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> What is a utahdog doing in florida?


Sweating like a pig and sprouting skin cancer tumors.


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

girlonbike said:


> I only know of ONE person that didn't like his phoenix.


Not possible!


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## WickedPhatChance (May 28, 2011)

girlonbike said:


> I only know of ONE person that didn't like his phoenix.


...what's the story?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

An east coast guy that has a heart filled with love for Yetis found his little California lady not quite his favorite ride. He gave it a shot though.

And that's what makes vintage bikes so cool for some of us. We all like different bikes so, at least for me, I've learned all sorts of things about bikes that I have once cared very little for such as Kleins, Americans and Fats. Now I have one and wouldn't mind having the others. They're all so different!  And that's what makes bikes so fascinating for me. So much you can learn from them.

Anyhow, everybody's got different tastes. I'm hoping I'm the only one that likes LBPs. eh hem. right.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

WickedPhatChance said:


> ...what's the story?


He's a sucky rider and his name is Ameybrook.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

girlonbike said:


> . I'm hoping I'm the only one that likes LBPs.


you owe me a soda

and a new keyboard


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

Edit: I had a brain fart.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Funny story...

... I broke the Turner. I cheated on the Phoenix and God was watching.:eekster:


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Little Beople's Pikes are so cool.


haha! oops. Hopefully, LBP's not some sort of piercing s and m move that H is all laughing his ass about.

Utahdog....ha! at least the Phoenix was safe and sound from your crash. How did you break a frame riding along the canals?


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Utahdog....ha! at least the Phoenix was safe and sound from your crash. How did you break a frame riding along the canals?


I was in South Carolina (FATS) this past weekend, shock developed a problem that I figured I could just deal with, but it was a little undersprung for my big a$$, and I cracked a rocker on full compression. Not the bikes fault. Didn't even crash.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Hmm...it's only a month old. Can you try to bring it in for a warranty claim? Oh wait. Did you buy it used?


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> Hmm...it's only a month old. Can you try to bring it in for a warranty claim? Oh wait. Did you buy it used?


Oh yes, used. Not Turner's issue at all and I wouldn't expect them to foot the bill. 5 year old frame. I'll fix it.


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## Dasdudinator (Sep 19, 2011)

*Oh the regret...*

Years ago I had an opportunity to buy a Forest green WTB Phoenix frame new from a shop in Marin County, CA at a steeply discounted price. It was the one with the roller brake. I chose not to buy it and got a new FS bike instead. I think the events of my life would have been changed had I gotten the WTB.

I have few regrets in life, but this is one for certain. These bikes are like the holy grail and I will be on the lookout for one until the day I die.

Still mourning.

A


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

yep. I feel....really really really bad for you. I just hope it wasn't a FS GF.


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## Dasdudinator (Sep 19, 2011)

You can pour all the salt in the ocean on this wound... it doesn't matter.... it will never heal....

...that is, until I get my Phoenix!


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Phoenix update...

After the new wheelset in June of 2011, the Phoenix has been motoring along without complaint. I did fix the Turner 5-Spot also, and to aid my adjustment in switching between the Spot, EWR and the Phoenix and back and forth and blah blah blah, I added a mild riser bar wit more sweep. The flat bar is more comfy I think, but that setup just makes it too hard to jump from bike to bike.

No pic for this update on the current computer so I'll have to fix that next time. In the meantime, here is a big-a$$ plate of fried food instead.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> Phoenix update...
> 
> After the new wheelset in June of 2011, the Phoenix has been motoring along without complaint. I did fix the Turner 5-Spot also, and to aid my adjustment in switching between the Spot, EWR and the Phoenix and back and forth and blah blah blah, I added a mild riser bar wit more sweep. The flat bar is more comfy I think, but that setup just makes it too hard to jump from bike to bike.
> 
> No pic for this update on the current computer so I'll have to fix that next time. In the meantime, here is a big-a$$ plate of fried food instead.


I got fatter just from looking at it.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

92gli said:


> My buddy used to say that those old speed kings were true to their name in that they were the fastest way to end up on your back in the brambles. I see you took them off when you went riding.:thumbsup:


I rode them six mo in ultra dry conditions, on a rigid bike and have no complaints except cactus thorn flats almost eveyr day though i should be riding tubeless.


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Still going, and going, and going....


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## utahdog2003 (Jul 8, 2004)

Would anyone from the local scene where this bike originated, as indicated early in the thread, like to PM me some more particular details about the frame's history? Specifically I'm curious about the statement about it being the last Phoenii built.

And please don't offer to buy it from me.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

utahdog2003 said:


> Would anyone from the local scene where this bike originated, as indicated early in the thread, like to PM me some more particular details about the frame's history? Specifically I'm curious about the statement about it being the last Phoenii built.
> 
> And please don't offer to buy it from me.


Every Phoenix thread has at least three "I want to buy one" lines and at least one "seatpost slip" reference.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

utahdog2003 said:


> Would anyone from the local scene where this bike originated, as indicated early in the thread, like to PM me some more particular details about the frame's history? Specifically I'm curious about the statement about it being the last Phoenii built.
> 
> And please don't offer to buy it from me.


What's the serial number on it? I have a relatively incomplete S/N data base that focuses mostly on the Potts', but I'm working on the Phoenixes too. 
I would think that if it was a very late Phoenix, it would have disc brake mounts.


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