# stages vs 4iiii power meter



## brankulo (Aug 29, 2005)

about to pull a trigger on single sided power meter for my road bike. both cost the same, stages will come with new crank arm, 4iiii i need to ship my crank for them to fit it on. so probably more time before i get my hands on 4iiii. other than that, any suggestions why to get one over another?
thanks


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

They seem to be pretty similar products. I added a 4iii Podium to my road bike a few months ago, which is the USB rechargeable version. 

So the issue: I was getting 10 second dropouts in power about every 10 minutes of riding. This might have been excusable if the Garmin recorded no values, and just drew a straight line over the gap to fill in the power graph like it does when it loses my HRM, but it was actually recording 10 seconds of zero watts. Which obviously is going to mess up your 60-second sprint wattage. I was pissed and ready to send it back, until I switched both the 4iii and the Garmin to my old CX bike..... and the problem disappeared. 

I'm kind of dumbfounded right now, as the distance between the two is on the CX is MORE than on my road bike, and I'm not getting how a carbon frameset and bars could blocking an ANT signal while aluminum everything is fine.

I guess if I wanted to blame 4iiii I could claim the podium has a weak transmitter, but ultimately some oddity of my road bike set up is blocking the ANT signal somehow and I'm gonna have to do some monkeying around to see what it is.

My online search for the problem revealed few results.... but a bunch of Stages users having pretty much the same issue...

so.....shrug?


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

They do seem similar. My GF has a 4iiii on her road bike that was purchased this year, while I have stages on two bikes. The 4iiii is too new to have any conclusions on, however my stages have been among the least reliable bicycle or electronics purchases I've ever made. The mtb is on its third one, and my gravel bike on its second. All but one replaced by warranty, and the one that was not was a 100 refurb fee. So yeah, 'great customer service' except expect to deal with customer service. A lot. Also battery life is terrible. I've never gotten remotely close to the claimed 200 hours. Probably not even 50. OTOH, the numbers appear reasonable compared to what I've seen over the years on a computrainer and now kickr. They are also simple to install, easy to pair with a garmin, and add like 15 grams, and I have not had drop out issues. Personally, I wouldn't buy a product from stages again. Simply too unreliable. Hopefully 4iiii will prove to have done a better job with the concept.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

Not crank based, but I use the Favero Assioma pedals. These they have been bulletproof so far and are highly rated by DCRainmaker. I got two sided and get many of the left/right pedal dynamics parameters. Pretty easy to change between bikes. They're Look compatible cleats, which may be a drawback for some. I was on Look for many years before I got them so no problem for me. Look is very similar to Shimano road so switching over from Shimano shouldn't be a problem. If you're on Time or Speedplay, that's a bigger switch. You can put SPD pedal bodies on the Assioma pedals, but the issue is that rubber cleats on SPD shoes can interfere with the transmitter module on the pedals. People who do this trim away some of the rubber on their shoes.


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## cavo (Apr 18, 2011)

Lone Rager said:


> Not crank based, but I use the Favero Assioma pedals. These they have been bulletproof so far and are highly rated by DCRainmaker. I got two sided and get many of the left/right pedal dynamics parameters. Pretty easy to change between bikes. They're Look compatible cleats, which may be a drawback for some. I was on Look for many years before I got them so no problem for me. Look is very similar to Shimano road so switching over from Shimano shouldn't be a problem. If you're on Time or Speedplay, that's a bigger switch. You can put SPD pedal bodies on the Assioma pedals, but the issue is that rubber cleats on SPD shoes can interfere with the transmitter module on the pedals. People who do this trim away some of the rubber on their shoes.


i have seen the hack recently and i would be all over it as i use same shoes on my mtb and road bike. it would just be the matter of swapping pedals, or in my case pedal as all i need is single. but the location of electronics on the pedal really worries me and i would most likely smash it on my 1st ride. lots of rocks around here and i do get pedal strikes 1-2 times per ride regularly.


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## eaxford (Dec 20, 2019)

ghettocruiser said:


> They seem to be pretty similar products. I added a 4iii Podium to my road bike a few months ago, which is the USB rechargeable version.
> 
> So the issue: I was getting 10 second dropouts in power about every 10 minutes of riding. This might have been excusable if the Garmin recorded no values, and just drew a straight line over the gap to fill in the power graph like it does when it loses my HRM, but it was actually recording 10 seconds of zero watts. Which obviously is going to mess up your 60-second sprint wattage. I was pissed and ready to send it back, until I switched both the 4iii and the Garmin to my old CX bike..... and the problem disappeared.
> 
> ...


I have a Podium on my gravel bike (Praxis carbon cranks) and noticed the same thing. My dropouts were about 20 seconds or so. I sent the 4iiii customer service team my .FIT file from the ride and also took the file and overlaid the speed and elevation over the power. 
They quickly responded to me and asked a few questions, had me send them the 4iiii app screen shot and then they broadcast a specific update to my power meter. They responded that this has been seen before. Not sure why it is not a general update. Anyway, after installing it problem seems like it has been resolved.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

eaxford said:


> They quickly responded to me and asked a few questions, had me send them the 4iiii app screen shot and then they broadcast a specific update to my power meter. They responded that this has been seen before. Not sure why it is not a general update. Anyway, after installing it problem seems like it has been resolved.


An individual device-specific update is pretty weird. My 4iiii is back on my road bike now, so I guess if I get dropouts again I can email them and see what they say.


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## eaxford (Dec 20, 2019)

ghettocruiser said:


> An individual device-specific update is pretty weird. My 4iiii is back on my road bike now, so I guess if I get dropouts again I can email them and see what they say.


That's what I thought too, but again it is cool that they were responsive. Here is the email:
Thank you for reaching out.
We have pushed out afirmware update to your crank that should solve this issue. Please connect thepowermeter to the 4iiii App, and install the firmwareupdate (1.4.24).

We have been seeing and hearing reports of dropouts specifically related to theGarmin 1030+. We have an open conversation with Garmin regarding theissue. Garmin also released a firmware upgrade in May or June that wassupposed to address this issue, so if you have not already, we would recommendensuring that the firmware is up-to-date on the Garmin.

Please let me know if you need any more help.

Regards,
Jordan


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

So I didn't see any drops on the last ride. I moved my gopro, which was previously pretty close to the head unit. May or may not have been a factor.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ghettocruiser said:


> So I didn't see any drops on the last ride. I moved my gopro, which was previously pretty close to the head unit. May or may not have been a factor.


GoPro's can be very noisy.
Early drone users had to wrap their GoPro's in foil to stop them interfering with the flight systems.

A GoPro next to a head unit was the best way to make a GPS track look like it was drawn by a child.


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## ghettocruiser (Jun 21, 2008)

Took the Gopro and mount completely off. One ride with a few dropouts, one ride with no issues. The mystery continues. 

OP: sorry for this general thread hijack, hopefully some useful information still trickled out.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

Cautionary tale - I am having to go through all forums to denounce 4iiii in hopes they will answer my emails, but let it be an example of their customer support if you decide to go with them


I have a Stages dual sided powermeter on Ultegra cranks that I bought off the shelf, and have been very happy with it - no connection drops, no weird power readings. Wanting to have a crank based powermeter in my other bike, I checked and saw that Stages don't do factory installs on FSA cranks (I like the FSA carbon cranks I have on that bike and wanted to keep them) but 4iiii do
Checked on their webpage and my FSA K-light are listed as compatible - so I sent the required emails with the model, the photos checking clearance to frame and sent the left crank for the factory install
10 days later, I start to wonder why the crank is still in the scheduled installation/installation phase - so I write an email and get a response saying the crank is not compatible for a Precision factory install and that I will be refunded
I am pretty annoyed at this point, as it has taken them 10 days to check the crank and see that it is not compatible (BS, as they still show FSA as compatible in their site), but ok, I ask why is it not compatible and when will I get my crank back
No response (although they did refund the money, thank God) on either of the two points: so I start calling, sending emails and finally, I have to resort to public shaming in the hopes they will return my frigging crank. Still no sign of my crank btw.
So I cannot speak on how their powermeters work, but I can say that their customer service is non-existent and they will leave you to rot if you have an issue, so I'd honestly give them a pass based on my experience.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

And I'll buy another based on my experience.


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## Pommers (Feb 28, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> And I'll buy another based on my experience.


Lucky you, wish I could say the same - btw, did you contact 4iii directly? if so, is Kerry the person you spoke with? I am trying to get hold of someone, but it seems she is the only one working there.


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