# stratos sued and out of business...



## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

my family's friend mike, who owns (or at least used to own) stratos suspension, came by our machine shop last week with some bad news. specialized sued them for everything they had by claiming patent infringement on the dampning rods that stratos uses. mike said specialized only sued them because in t was cheaper than buying stratos's patent from them. although stratos isn't the best suspension in the world it really sucks and makes me angry that they went out of business...


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## paintballeerXC (Jun 9, 2005)

dang thats not nice


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

scabrider said:


> specialized sued them for everything they had by claiming patent infringement on the dampning rods that stratos uses. mike said specialized only sued them because in t was cheaper than buying stratos's patent from them. although stratos isn't the best suspension in the world it really sucks and makes me angry that they went out of business...


wow. that totally sucks. typical corporate move.


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## 40hills (Apr 24, 2006)

You know what? Before I even read your post I was thinking that "Socialized" Bikes was to blame. They should be sued for harassment. My image of them is now even lower than it was before... and it was never good. Hopefully one day they'll bite off more than they can chew and will suffer the consequences. Friggin' lawyers.


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## 29Colossus (Jun 4, 2006)

Stealing technology from others is a grinch.


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## Alandrex (Aug 11, 2005)

Man thats terrible. The big companies are taking out the small friendly ones now.


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

the funny part is that stratos has made suspension for years, much unlike specialized. 25 years ago my dad worked with mike at a company called hall surgical, mike designed and built prototypes of his shocks (he didn't even think about forks at that time) in his spare time. he spent almost all his money designing new shocks and building up his company, only to lose it all through a lawsuit (costing him over $250,000). sucks...


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## Guest (Sep 6, 2006)

breaks my heart.... f*ckers....


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Specialized SUCKS. They took their bikes overseaes and raised prices! Then they sue companies that are small knowing full well they cannot fight a court battle? Specialized will get theirs maybe their owner needs a swift kick in the butt and instead of spending money on lawyers maybe they can spend money ON RACE SPONSORSHIPS!!!!! Cheap bastards, but anyway I will never again own another of their bikes.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

ianjenn said:


> Specialized SUCKS. They took their bikes overseaes and raised prices! Then they sue companies that are small knowing full well they cannot fight a court battle? Specialized will get theirs maybe their owner needs a swift kick in the butt and instead of spending money on lawyers maybe they can spend money ON RACE SPONSORSHIPS!!!!! Cheap bastards, but anyway I will never again own another of their bikes.


Amen brother.

They also do lots of unethical things to cut costs. And lots of band-aid fixes for problems with their bikes.


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

I'm going to tell my best friend never to speak to Kyle again!


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## loco-gringo (Sep 29, 2005)

ianjenn said:


> Specialized SUCKS. They took their bikes overseaes and raised prices! Then they sue companies that are small knowing full well they cannot fight a court battle? Specialized will get theirs maybe their owner needs a swift kick in the butt and instead of spending money on lawyers maybe they can spend money ON RACE SPONSORSHIPS!!!!! *Cheap bastards, but anyway I will never again own another of their bikes.*


I'm with this cat. Like Stratos could ever hurt them. F the big red S. :incazzato:


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

that sucks.....I hate seeing the little guy go out


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

That's totally lame and somethign I've always been againt and a main reason I've always tried to stay away from major brands and corporations with all areas of my life and interests. I currently own a Specialized Demo-9 and will now never buy another spec. bike again after reading this post. Punk ethics and mtb'ers, who woulda thought.


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Yeah in 2005 at Keysville race I borrowed a friends 2004 M1 in super sick condition and raced it. Behind me was a SPECIALIZED worker and he said he wished they still made their PALMER frame that I infomed him my fiance used (I MEAN WIFE) to own. I straight told him I wouldn't buy a frame made overseas, he understood exactley what I meant! Does anybody know what their stock name is? I couldn't find it anywhere???


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

That doesn't make much sense.

I think there's more to this story than has been told...I mean, I hate Specialized as much as the next faux counter-culture MTBer, but the pieces don't fit.


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## Chicodude01 (Sep 5, 2004)

Hahahahaha....So you guys actually believe everything you read on a forum told by a 16 year old kiddie?



AWESOME


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Sounds like complete BS to me, unless there's more to the story. I know, anarchy, bla bla bla, hate on the big guy, but untill I hear the full story I'm not mad.


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## zerossix (Jul 25, 2004)

Chicodude01 said:


> Hahahahaha....So you guys actually believe everything you read on a forum told by a 16 year old kiddie?
> 
> AWESOME


yeah not that i doubt specialized would pull somethign liek this. i personally would like alittle more hard evidence than this... no offesne scab rider, just yeah, kinda a big deal and my dads friend owns stratos and he got sued doesnt quite cut it..


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Chicodude01 said:


> Hahahahaha....So you guys actually believe everything you read on a forum told by a 16 year old kiddie?
> 
> AWESOME


What would be the point in lying about his dad or dads friend getting sued out of buisness. And even if it is false, it still opened my eyes to something I once stood strongly against and seemed to have forgotten when it came to mtbing, let the little guys run. It's not only wrong to stomp out the compitition, it also hurts a market for the consumer, good competesion keeps the cost low for the consumer. F capitalism on any scale.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> Sounds like complete BS to me, unless there's more to the story. I know, anarchy, bla bla bla, hate on the big guy, but untill I hear the full story I'm not mad.


anarchy has nothing to do with this, completly dif. idea. But yes, I still want to know more about what happened.


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

Show me some facts and i might belive you but it would suck if spec did that,

I use to have some MX-6 and they where well plush i hope Stratos stay alive man

FACTS PLEASE:thumbsup:


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## zerossix (Jul 25, 2004)

off the website:

8/1/2006 Closed for Vacation
Stratos will be closed until September 4th for VACATION. We will still process parts orders via e-mail at [email protected]
If you would like to place an order, please email us the following info:name,address,telephone #, we take visa or MasterCard
Thanks The guys at Stratos.

sh!t man they've been on vacation for the past month they've had no time to get sued haha


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## keen (Jan 13, 2004)

I would have thought, Specialized aside, Stratos was on the down slide. Last product they had was the ID cartridge and I am not sure what sales were like on that item. I do know there customer service was really poor. If you got someone on the phone it was Cathrine (I think that was her name) and man she could really make you wish you you didn't own a Stratos product.


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

haha, closed for vacation, sweet...where did scab rider coem up with this shite?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

keen said:


> I would have thought, Specialized aside, Stratos was on the down slide. Last product they had was the ID cartridge and I am not sure what sales were like on that item. I do know there customer service was really poor. If you got someone on the phone it was Cathrine (I think that was her name) and man she could really make you wish you you didn't own a Stratos product.


I felt they needed to work on their CS and better product but I still feel sorry for them


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## Imperial (Jun 9, 2006)

Awesome,HAHA,Well done Crap talker you fooled a few of em


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

fred.r said:


> anarchy has nothing to do with this, completly dif. idea. But yes, I still want to know more about what happened.


I'm not saying you, but others in this thread have gone the F capitolism route. Over nothing. Yay! :thumbsup:


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

Ojai Bicyclist said:


> I'm not saying you, but others in this thread have gone the F capitolism route. Over nothing. Yay! :thumbsup:


Haha, actually it was me saying "F capitolism," just getting my teenage angnst I guess.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

Oh, so then I was right in the first place.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

I think Stratos is just fine....still kinda half hacking it the way they always have.

I would question and doubt everything this kid says about his dad's shop, or as he sometimes referres to it, "his shop", and the local industries. The owner probably was walking around complaining about business being crappy and shooting off about Specialized. I'll believe it when I see a press release of some sort from either end.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

And many wonder why i say Specialized reminds me of HD, same low class way to make more money & ripp people off. Corporate BS to the limits. Must be time to buy a Demo Crap. :madman::madman::madman:


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Capitalism makes people accel in their fields. Yet big companies should be held responsible for their acts. Moving overseas to save a few 100 gs a year is a joke. So even if this didn't happen, sounds MICROSOFT like to me. I still say up SPECIALIZED they have an obligation to help the sport out and put money back in; all MOTORCYCLE companies do? It would not suprise me if this is a true tale.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I would not be surprised, Specialized sued Mountain Cycle because they named one of their cyclocross bikes the Stumptown (after Portland culture). Big S claimed that it was much too similar to Stumpjumper.

And if I remember correctly, the Stratos thing has been an ongoing issue.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=137995&highlight=specialized+stratos+sue

I was a little bit off, but it's close.


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## Evel Knievel (Mar 28, 2004)

.downhillfaster. said:


> Because good ole' Scabby doesn't have the best track record around here...
> 
> Let's not forget that this is the kid that replied _"sick..."_ to well over 1,000 legitimate posts...


 sick..


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

scabrider said:


> the funny part is that stratos has made suspension for years, much unlike specialized. 25 years ago my dad worked with mike at a company called hall surgical, mike designed and built prototypes of his shocks (he didn't even think about forks at that time) in his spare time. he spent almost all his money designing new shocks and building up his company, only to lose it all through a lawsuit (costing him over $250,000). sucks...


Way to go Specialized .... SH!Ting on the little guy :thumbsup:

I have far to many stories/examples of how Specialized basically steals what ever idea they want and sues that orignal parent company into submission .


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

yeah well they were'nt making a whole lot of money lately and mike did bring in some partners and they were working on some new stuff. but still, why would i lie about something like this...


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## bleu (Jan 24, 2005)

The thread on RM actually vaguely may explain things:

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2273652#post2273652


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

sick...


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

I'll stick with replacing $10 chains, rather than multi-100 dollar drive shafts.


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

Chicodude01 said:


> Hahahahaha....So you guys actually believe everything you read on a forum told by a 16 year old kiddie?
> 
> AWESOME


actually, i'm 15...


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

i give up. believe me if you want or don't. whatever. as far as i know what i said is 100% true...


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

scabrider said:


> i give up. believe me if you want or don't. whatever. as far as i know what i said is 100% true...


way back in the day, specialized sued rockshox because the name was too similar to rockhopper. they settled with rochshox manufacturing the specialized line of forks.
people should read those other threads for more info.

anybody want to buy my enduro frame? it cost $50 to manufacture, i'll sell it for $1000.


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## NorKal (Jan 13, 2005)

scabrider said:


> actually, i'm 15...


sick...


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Brad Specialized INIVATES OR DIES remember. Or is it INTIMIDATES OR DIES
screw "Bill Synard" or however his last name is spelled? I see him at Sea otter I will let him know about his BS manufacturing acts.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

sriracha said:


> ....
> anybody want to buy my enduro frame? it cost $50 to manufacture, i'll sell it for $1000.


nothing like plunking down $1400 for a frame with a lifetime warranty just to be told 4 months later "we can't warranty that, it _*looks*_ abused....."


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## AZ Saint (Jan 13, 2004)

sick...


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

scabrider said:


> i give up. believe me if you want or don't. whatever. as far as i know what i said is 100% true...


don't worry about it....you know the truth


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> nothing like plunking down $1400 for a frame with a lifetime warranty just to be told 4 months later "we can't warranty that, it _*looks*_ abused....."


man, what a bunch of douche bags running that company. i bet they even creatively limited roam to being a copy of the collective.
"we will give you $250,000 to make a bike video, but we must see the red S, 40 times. and here is a viacom approved list of music for you to select from. we want more jack johnson stuff, the wives don't like rap or metal."


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

Scabrider may be a young whiper snapper but I believe him. And what up with you avitar AZ saint??


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

scabrider said:


> actually, i'm 15...


Some people forget they were once kids & now they are all growed up & know every thing. The rumor has been going around for a tad now about Stratos closing the doors, really sux. Cathrine at Stratos helped me out a coupple times, very understanding of what you are asking for. Hate to see or hear about good people getting scewed like that from a dirt bag corporation. :madmax::madmax:
​


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## singletrack (Feb 19, 2004)

scabrider said:


> the funny part is that stratos has made suspension for years, much unlike specialized.


FYI, Specialized had their own line of suspension forks many years before Stratos came into being. Granted they were just rebadged Rock Shox with a few mods, but the fact remains that SpecialEd has been in the suspension game longer than most anybody.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

singletrack said:


> FYI, Specialized had their own line of suspension forks many years before Stratos came into being. Granted they were just rebadged Rock Shox with a few mods, but the fact remains that SpecialEd has been in the suspension game longer than most anybody.


Pro-Flex :thumbsup:


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

singletrack said:


> FYI, Specialized had their own line of suspension forks many years before Stratos came into being. Granted they were just *rebadged Rock Shox* with a few mods.


read below:
way back in the day, specialized sued rockshox because the name was too similar to rockhopper. they settled with rochshox manufacturing the specialized line of forks.


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## mothahucker (Feb 6, 2006)

Zonk0u said:


> I'll stick with replacing $10 chains, rather than multi-100 dollar drive shafts.


What in the HELL are you talking about?:skep:


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## 5823305 (Oct 22, 2005)

*The Facts about Evil Empire,*

:madmax: I will clear this up for both the supporters and doubters of Scabrider. Send Stratos an E-mail at [email protected] and you will get the same answer. I was forwarded this thread yesterday so I called Mike, to see where this was at.

YES Specialized has Sued him into submission, he is not out of business just yet but has had to scale way down, as the ID product line was what they had been spending all the money on $Hundred of thousands. 
The issue is very basic. In 2003 Mike Licensed exclusivly 18 us and international patents from the company that invented flow controlled inertia valve technology in the eairly 90's and Specialized wants this technology for the 2007 product line they just released, and it is more in their style to sue some body than to do the morally right thing and pay the miniscule licensing fees, the Attorneys make more money that way.:madman: Here is the history as I wrote about it about a year ago in this forum.

In 1998 every suspension company had the opportunity to license this technology but only OnSport/Stratos did. In 1998 RockShox was looking at this too, McAndrews the so called "inventor" of the brain shock was the head of R&D at RockShox. See US patent #6105987 by Paul Turner assigned to RockShox for proof of this. In 1997 Ricor, the company that OnSport licensed from, put inertia valve shocks on a Specialized bike and then showed every body the future, but no non discloure agreements as they had patents, thus they are the true inventors not Specialized or McAndrews. See past posts from Shocknerd for verification. In 1999 McAndrews filed a patent on the "brain" and then had to have a team of attorneys do their dammedist to get it patented because there is so much prior art. Specialized did get a patent for a non co-axial inertia valve design but it is so limited as to not be manufacturable.

Here in lies the Rub, they now have a patent though it is arguably not valid, I have looked into this as this is what I do, it is in the prosecution history of the patent, and then they use that patent to say that Stratos is infringing them. Stratos now has to prove that they are not infringing the patent that has 6 of the Stratos licensed patents as prior art, is not for a front fork part, does not have a reservoir, that they are not infringing. If you know anything about patent defense cost, the company I work for uses this tactic too, a small company even when it is right as in this case can not afford to defend itself. According to Mike the head S at Specialized then calls him and says give me the your licensing agreement or we will sue you and for 100K I will bankrupt you and then get the patents that way. That was back in January of 2005, the same time they started working on the 2007 product line which once you understand that they have ditched Fox on the belief that they would have these patents all of this make perfect sense now. " the Grand Plan"

Stratos then has another company, that shall remain nameless, defend them as they want to license it too. This other company tries in vain to get Specialized to negotiate a deal where they both could use the technology of these patents, but no go the big S is too greedy. After a large $$six figures they give up leaving Mike to defend it himself.
Stratos then stops all sales, promotion, and support of the ID product line but Specialized will still not back off.
So back to the way this started YES specialized is attempting and may succeed in driving Stratos out of business in an attempt to get the licensing agreement. Mike is out of money for the defense but even if they win in court they still have the lengthy process of trying to collect. Specialized sells over $80Million of brain related bikes a year, you would think that for a couple hundred grand a year they could afford to pay the licensing fees, as their latest product is a direct infringement :nono: of the patents that they are attempting to steal go check their website.

My take on Specialized is that it is only a few bad apples need to be squished to make this right.:thumbsup:


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## ianjenn (Aug 1, 2004)

Bastards! I have a good friend who is now a top engineer at SHOWA USA owuldn't it be too bad if SHOWA was sold the licensing for the original patente form Startos and took over the fight???? Specialized would fail...........
That would teach S a lesson no.
If only Honda would hurry up and make that frame availible.
btw he said they would probabley sell it with the Showa fork and shock if they made it! Pass this on to whoever you need man!


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## Zonk0u (Jun 3, 2004)

mothahucker said:


> What in the HELL are you talking about?:skep:


I think I was stoned, drunk, and tired and got threads mixed up.

I love my specialized enduro.. but damn...I hate owning a specialized. At least I bought used and specialEd didnt get my duckets.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

5823305 said:


> :madmax: I will clear this up for both the supporters and doubters of Scabrider. Send Stratos an E-mail at [email protected] and you will get the same answer. I was forwarded this thread yesterday so I called Mike, to see where this was at.
> 
> YES Specialized has Sued him into submission, he is not out of business just yet but has had to scale way down, as the ID product line was what they had been spending all the money on $Hundred of thousands.
> The issue is very basic. In 2003 Mike Licensed exclusivly 18 us and international patents from the company that invented flow controlled inertia valve technology in the eairly 90's and Specialized wants this technology for the 2007 product line they just released, and it is more in their style to sue some body than to do the morally right thing and pay the miniscule licensing fees, the Attorneys make more money that way.:madman: Here is the history as I wrote about it about a year ago in this forum.
> ...


wow.......that truely sucks


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## shock (Aug 9, 2004)

I don't know all the details, but as an anonymous engineer involved in early id stuff, there is much truth to this thread. It sucks, and it won't be the last time it happens


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## Chicodude01 (Sep 5, 2004)

dogonfr said:


> Some people forget they were once kids & now they are all growed up & know every thing. The rumor has been going around for a tad now about Stratos closing the doors, really sux. Cathrine at Stratos helped me out a coupple times, very understanding of what you are asking for. Hate to see or hear about good people getting scewed like that from a dirt bag corporation. :madmax::madmax:
> ​


Whatever. Do YOU believe everything that is told to you by a 15 kid on forums?

I will admit I was wrong, But I have heard my best friends dad's brother is a so and so and he says......


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Chicodude01 said:


> Whatever. Do YOU believe everything that is told to you by a 15 kid on forums?
> 
> I will admit I was wrong, But I have heard my best friends dad's brother is a so and so and he says......


I have 15 & 16 year old sons, i was once there age also. The rumor of Stratos having a possible problem is not new news. Specialized making money or gaining patent off of others is not new news either.


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## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

*Unreal - Big S GO BLOW!*

That does s*ck!

I still have my Stratos S8 fork and anyone who's ever rode one knows that Stratos knows their sh*t! This is bad news for the whole industry! Big S has gotten worse than Trek. I hope they all burn in H*LL! :madmax:

G MAN


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

so admittedly I ride a specialized but as I understand it, and I've actually researched it quite a bit, I dont think Specialized is exactly trying to make money off patents of others. What they're doing is BS to be sure, but I dont think they're trying to make money off the patent directly. 

What they are trying to do is be the ONLY company in the bike industry with rights to the technology. Which is in effect the same thing, but Let me explain. Heres a sequence of events as I understand it...

1. Some guy (goes by the name Shocknerd on here, worked for Ricoh industries) patents a general stable platform/brain/whatever you want to call it shock. His patent was for all uses, cars, motorcycles, etc.
2. He tries to sell it to various shock companies in the bike industry. Stratos is the only one who buys the liscensing rights from him. Maybe Specialized and others see his work and say "Hmmm we can do that ourselves" rather than buy it from him.
3. Specialized comes out with the brain shock and patents it SPECIFICALLY for bikes. Changed a few things too. This is actually fairly common in the patent industry... to take an existing patent, make it more specific and repatent it. 
4. Since Specialized now has a valid patent for bike-specific shocks they tell Stratos, which is using the general patent to stop making the shocks or pay them. 



Anyway so my point is that specialized did something that happens all the time in patent law. Is it BS? yes, but unfortunately patent law sucks and companies do this all the time. I'm surprised frankly that the guy who has the more general patent didn't sue specialized or challenge their patent. But anyway if you're complaining about this crap and how comapnies get around patents... think again about other stuff like for example how you can get generic drugs so cheap, etc.


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## K'Endo (Dec 23, 2003)

bhsavery said:


> But anyway if you're complaining about this crap and how comapnies get around patents... think again about other stuff like for example how you can get generic drugs so cheap, etc.


Generic drugs typically hit the market when the original patent expires. Big difference.

Kn.


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## Shocknerd (Aug 3, 2004)

I've been studying this situation because I have an interest in how this all turns out. I've gone to the LA court basement and read all the documents. Because I invent for a living, it's important to learn a much as I can on how the system works. Because Specialized is using some of the best patent lawyers in the US, it's an opportunity to learn from the best. I have have learned how to get patents on things I thought were already invented. I have credit were credit is due, I didn't think of this myself. I'll do my best to pass on what I have learned on how the system works. First thing is do research, search patents, check out automotive applications, call companies working on bicycle applications of flow control inertia valves ie:12/09/98 and hope they're not taking detailed notes of the conversation. File a patent 6 months later but be sure not to mention what you learned in your research, that would make it almost impossible to get a patent. Fight for a patent even if it means you have to convince the examiner that it's so narrow and undesirable , it's virtually worthless. Now, let's say you go to a convention and see another device that's not covered by your patent, you get your attorney to argue to the patent office that version was in the original disclosure, you make the claims broader in some ways to cover the newly discovered device in what's called a continuation patent. You now have patents that on the surface appear to be virtually worthless because they are so narrow. They're not, they now can be used as "tickets" to get into court. That makes them valuable. You can now use the "patents" to drag companies into extremly expensive litigation, even if they are selling devices that were offered for sale before your inventor even worked for you. Once in court it's very important to change your position relative to the one you took at the patent office. Some call it "taking contradictory positions in differant venues", I call it being creative. You argue to the judge that he's not supposed to look at the file history were you take a differant position to overcome rejections. You argue that he's to take the most liberal dictionary definition of key words in the claims from and again don't look into he file history. If you get the judge to buy into the liberal dictionary definition, you've got the industry by the tail. Congratulations, you can now charge infringement on inertia valve systems literally going back to 1913 (Goodyear). By following cases like this in great detail, I have been able to learn a great deal on how the system works, if you are able to afford the big law firms. I hope this online education experience is helpful. I'm assuming/representing that the big firms are not breaking any laws, just being aggressive.


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## Reamer (Apr 3, 2006)

#1ORBUST said:


> Scabrider may be a young whiper snapper but I believe him. And what up with you avitar AZ saint??


Yeah that shizz izz nasty!:skep:


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## sriracha (Jun 23, 2004)

Shocknerd said:


> I've been studying this situation because I have an interest in how this all turns out. I've gone to the LA court basement and read all the documents. Because I invent for a living, it's important to learn a much as I can on how the system works. Because Specialized is using some of the best patent lawyers in the US, it's an opportunity to learn from the best. I have have learned how to get patents on things I thought were already invented. I have credit were credit is due, I didn't think of this myself. I'll do my best to pass on what I have learned on how the system works. First thing is do research, search patents, check out automotive applications, call companies working on bicycle applications of flow control inertia valves ie:12/09/98 and hope they're not taking detailed notes of the conversation. File a patent 6 months later but be sure not to mention what you learned in your research, that would make it almost impossible to get a patent. Fight for a patent even if it means you have to convince the examiner that it's so narrow and undesirable , it's virtually worthless. Now, let's say you go to a convention and see another device that's not covered by your patent, you get your attorney to argue to the patent office that version was in the original disclosure, you make the claims broader in some ways to cover the newly discovered device in what's called a continuation patent. You now have patents that on the surface appear to be virtually worthless because they are so narrow. They're not, they now can be used as "tickets" to get into court. That makes them valuable. You can now use the "patents" to drag companies into extremly expensive litigation, even if they are selling devices that were offered for sale before your inventor even worked for you. Once in court it's very important to change your position relative to the one you took at the patent office. Some call it "taking contradictory positions in differant venues", I call it being creative. You argue to the judge that he's not supposed to look at the file history were you take a differant position to overcome rejections. You argue that he's to take the most liberal dictionary definition of key words in the claims from and again don't look into he file history. If you get the judge to buy into the liberal dictionary definition, you've got the industry by the tail. Congratulations, you can now charge infringement on inertia valve systems literally going back to 1913 (Goodyear). By following cases like this in great detail, I have been able to learn a great deal on how the system works, if you are able to afford the big law firms. I hope this online education experience is helpful. I'm assuming/representing that the big firms are not breaking any laws, just being aggressive.


wow.:madmax: 
even if your ideas are protected, they can still be stolen "legally".


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

There are 3 sides to the story, Party A's, Party B's, and then the real story. None of you know either so why don't you all quit cappin' on either side, sit down, and have a nice big cup of shut the f*** up!


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## Shocknerd (Aug 3, 2004)

I make it sound hopeless, it's not. Fortunately there is the reexam option. It was created for this exact situation. All you have to do is file a reexam request with the patent office. It's given top priority status. In a case like this they would look at the contradictory position taken in the court room. They would reexamine the patent relative to same prior art used in the original application and new prior brought to their attention. They also take into consideration published articles (12/'96), websites ('97), and published advertisements (12/'96). From what I've learned about the system, I think taking advantage of the reexam option is very efficient.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

*Specialized Blows !!!!!*

Not that they even care about what I have to say. But I think I will just stop by the local ......no, make that 2 local bike shop that carries Specialized. I'll make sure that I do so on a day that I am driving home from a ride with my Ellsworth Dare in full view in the back of my truck. ( yea, he's a serious rider and has the $$ to back it up). I'll strike up a conversation with the "Owner" of the shop and pick the most expensive bike that Specialized carries to discuss a great price. In the end, I'll just cut him short and tell him, I don't want to support a company that "fu-ks" other bike companies and decide against it. Hoping he and a few other shops tells the sales rep. Think that will make them take notice??


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

YaMon said:


> ( yea, he's a serious rider and has the $$ to back it up).Think that will make them take notice??


The dealers have nothing to do with the suite, they sell a product that makes them money. There is a differance, they can get screwed by Spec just as quickly as anyone else. :eekster::madman:


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## umbertom (May 28, 2006)

specialized=mcdoe,homedepot,wallmart, etc
messed up


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

5823305 said:


> :madmax: I will clear this up for both the supporters and doubters of Scabrider. Send Stratos an E-mail at [email protected] and you will get the same answer. I was forwarded this thread yesterday so I called Mike, to see where this was at.
> 
> YES Specialized has Sued him into submission, he is not out of business just yet but has had to scale way down, as the ID product line was what they had been spending all the money on $Hundred of thousands.
> The issue is very basic. In 2003 Mike Licensed exclusivly 18 us and international patents from the company that invented flow controlled inertia valve technology in the eairly 90's and Specialized wants this technology for the 2007 product line they just released, and it is more in their style to sue some body than to do the morally right thing and pay the miniscule licensing fees, the Attorneys make more money that way.:madman: Here is the history as I wrote about it about a year ago in this forum.
> ...


Wow, I never knew what happened to Stratos.I used their shocks and liked them. It's to bad that happened to them, it would have been nice to see what products they had out by now. Does anyone know what the owner is doing now?


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

not to say its not true, that what he said was what he said, but sounds like BS, most companies wont waste that much money on a full blown sewt of this nature without first sending a cease and assist letter from there legal team. unless this company was to be made an example of, but with this economic climate, hardly the chance. on top of the fact that he did take someone elses technology and used it on his own. that was a "i told you so" moment


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## Rucker61 (Jul 21, 2006)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Wow, I never knew what happened to Stratos.I used their shocks and liked them. It's to bad that happened to them, it would have been nice to see what products they had out by now. Does anyone know what the owner is doing now?


Well, there's one less gravedigger job available.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

eride1 said:


> not to say its not true, that what he said was what he said, but sounds like BS, most companies wont waste that much money on a full blown sewt of this nature without first sending a cease and assist letter from there legal team. unless this company was to be made an example of, but with this economic climate, hardly the chance. on top of the fact that he did take someone elses technology and used it on his own. that was a "i told you so" moment


That's why I didn't state an opinion as to what really happened. Which is probably the stance we all should take, unless someone, indeed knows what really happened. It just sucks that they are no longer around.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

ianjenn said:


> Yeah in 2005 at Keysville race I borrowed a friends 2004 M1 in super sick condition and raced it. Behind me was a SPECIALIZED worker and he said he wished they still made their PALMER frame that I infomed him my fiance used (I MEAN WIFE) to own. *I straight told him I wouldn't buy a frame made overseas*, he understood exactley what I meant! Does anybody know what their stock name is? I couldn't find it anywhere???


Aren't you one of the guys that runs downhill news? Don't they review literally tons of dh bikes (mostly made overseas)? I'm looking up your site right now and there's a review of the Banshee Legend, Canfield Jedi, Santa Cruz V10... Aren't all of these bikes rated fairly high by your website? And aren't they all made overseas? Doesn't it look a little bad on you and the company that you promote to diss frames that are made overseas? How can there be reviews written up about how boner-tastic a frame is and now you're essentially saying if it's not made in the USA it's garbage?

Not trying to make it personal or anything man. I dig your site, I dig your reviews. Just playing the devil's advocate here to see if you might rethink what you said about overseas manufacturers.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

his dudeness said:


> Aren't you one of the guys that runs downhill news? Don't they review literally tons of dh bikes (mostly made overseas)? I'm looking up your site right now and there's a review of the Banshee Legend, Canfield Jedi, Santa Cruz V10... Aren't all of these bikes rated fairly high by your website? And aren't they all made overseas? Doesn't it look a little bad on you and the company that you promote to diss frames that are made overseas? How can there be reviews written up about how boner-tastic a frame is and now you're essentially saying if it's not made in the USA it's garbage?
> 
> Not trying to make it personal or anything man. I dig your site, I dig your reviews. Just playing the devil's advocate here to see if you might rethink what you said about overseas manufacturers.


We should definitely outsource all our jobs overseas. It sounds like a great idea!


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

his dudeness said:


> Aren't you one of the guys that runs downhill news? Don't they review literally tons of dh bikes (mostly made overseas)? I'm looking up your site right now and there's a review of the Banshee Legend, Canfield Jedi, Santa Cruz V10... Aren't all of these bikes rated fairly high by your website? And aren't they all made overseas? Doesn't it look a little bad on you and the company that you promote to diss frames that are made overseas? How can there be reviews written up about how boner-tastic a frame is and now you're essentially saying if it's not made in the USA it's garbage?
> 
> Not trying to make it personal or anything man. I dig your site, I dig your reviews. Just playing the devil's advocate here to see if you might rethink what you said about overseas manufacturers.


You're talking about 5 years ago like it was yesterday. :skep:


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

iheartbicycles said:


> We should definitely outsource all our jobs overseas. It sounds like a great idea!


nothing could go wrong, it will be great!


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

*zombie threadddddddddddddd*


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## Lunchbox362 (Jun 27, 2009)

Specialized is an awesome example of how aggressive business tactics can dominate an industry given time, I'm in awe really


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Too bad it's not really true. Stratos failed because of exceptionally poor management, stagnation, and overall bad decisions. You can dig up the dirt in the ridemonkey thread, but when people say that what did in stratos was "specialized sued them" it just makes me shake my head. Stratos nailed their coffin shut a long time before that. They pioneered lockouts and the original strata shocks were pretty innovative, the helix pro and expert weren't bad either, but they got real lazy and shoddy with QC, made some design errors (batches of DC forks were sent out with crowns too thin) and simply never updated their way-out-of-date chassi. Why would you want to be rocking a 8-9lb stratos fork that "twists" because it doesn't have a proper brake arch (and proper one-piece lowers)? Stratos was trying to sell the "same old crap" when RS and others were making forks POUNDS lighter. The stratos designs were circa 1997 or so, when marzocchi used the same style "wrap-around" brace. After that, marzocchi used designs that were stiffer and overall better in terms of interface. My s8 ultra was cool, but it didn't perform any better than my shiver, which was a few pounds lighter (and not a light fork by itself). The glide-ring tended to break, screwing up the damping (which was ahead of most of it's competitors). My MX6 was a disaster. Their seal supplier moved production and they got huge batches of seals that were out of spec, despite KNOWING this, they send out many forks with the improper seals, and couldn't get ahold of the right ones until long after the damage was done. There is much MUCH more to this story, but the theme of bad decisions is constant. They did themselves in. So much of their company was screwed up and on a path that couldn't be recovered from. They may have had that "last ditch effort" to use an automotive patent in a mtb situation, but specialized isn't a slouch and simply played a better hand. Even if stratos had done it correctly, I doubt it would have helped at that point.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

eride1 said:


> not to say its not true, that what he said was what he said, but sounds like BS, most companies wont waste that much money on a full blown sewt of this nature without first sending a cease and assist letter from there legal team. unless this company was to be made an example of, but with this economic climate, hardly the chance. on top of the fact that he did take someone elses technology and used it on his own. that was a "i told you so" moment


Do you mean a lawsuit preceded by a cease and desist letter from their legal team, or are you assuming Specialized would want to stop them and then help them?


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

through the years of being in the bike biz, l have heard time and time again all these sleazy deals Specialized seem to find themselves in. they're notorious for it.


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

i heard they ran some shock company out of business about 5 years ago....theres a thread about it if you care to dig it up


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

blue109 said:


> *zombie threadddddddddddddd*


Then why do you keep reading and posting? Doesn't say much about you!


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

iheartbicycles said:


> We should definitely outsource all our jobs overseas. It sounds like a great idea!


If they can make as good of a product for less money, a better product for the same cost or less money, and have the ability to mass produce things then there sure are valid reasons for companies to outsource.

And not to diss on American manufacturers but I have seen some pretty big qc issues (misaligned frames, inconsistent geometries, poor welds, etc) come from these so-called "best of the best of the best" framebuilders from the USA. It's not like buying a overpriced frame from a USA manufacturer guarantees that you'll buy a quality product.


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## iheartbicycles (Mar 14, 2008)

his dudeness said:


> If they can make as good of a product for less money, a better product for the same cost or less money, and have the ability to mass produce things then there sure are valid reasons for companies to outsource.
> 
> And not to diss on American manufacturers but I have seen some pretty big qc issues (misaligned frames, inconsistent geometries, poor welds, etc) come from these so-called "best of the best of the best" framebuilders from the USA. It's not like buying a overpriced frame from a USA manufacturer guarantees that you'll buy a quality product.


whatever, commie.


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## azdog (Nov 16, 2004)

I am more concerned with what happened to Scabrider?


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

whodaphuck said:


> Do you mean a lawsuit preceded by a cease and desist letter from their legal team, or are you assuming Specialized would want to stop them and then help them?


sorry for the grammar errors, your retype is the correct english. i ment desist and their. im just speaking from experience, not in the bike industry but in matters that mirror this topic. i have recieved and issued many cease and desist letters in my business and it just seemed extremely aggressive if they moved straight into a law suite. i would assume inhouse counsel is bored but not that bored. regardless no one is to blame for any companies failure except those that own it and or run it.


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## his dudeness (May 9, 2007)

iheartbicycles said:


> whatever, commie.


Poops mcgoops


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Then why do you keep reading and posting? Doesn't say much about you!


why did you respond to my response that doesnt say much? that doesnt say much about you. we should argue about this in 2016. everyone will be riding specialized biked from walmart by then. im cool with that because they have a sweet return policy. ever try to return a mountain cycle to walmart? what a pain! perhaps we can get the OP to weigh in on the subject over a pint. he should be old enough to drink now.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

blue109 said:


> why did you respond to my response that doesnt say much?


Because your posts are a waste of time and space. You should try posting something meaningful and at least half way intelligent. Or don't post at all.


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Because your posts are a waste of time and space. You should try posting something meaningful and at least half way intelligent. Or don't post at all.


shawn!! im sensing some hostility! and we were getting along so well. i wish we could have had this debate in 2005. remember the good old days before people said "gnar" and "epic" every other sentence? we only had to deal with the nor-cal peeps saying "hella" no wonder you are so frustrated and angry. look on the bright side! specialized doesnt want any mountain cycle technology so you can ride your bikes in peace until they are discontinued by walmart in 2016 (assuming of course the release of the 2013 spec lineup isnt going to cause the world to end as the mayans have predicted)


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## Quarashi (Aug 23, 2006)

blue109 said:


> shawn!! im sensing some hostility! and we were getting along so well. i wish we could have had this debate in 2005. remember the good old days before people said "gnar" and "epic" every other sentence? we only had to deal with the nor-cal peeps saying "hella" no wonder you are so frustrated and angry. look on the bright side! specialized doesnt want any mountain cycle technology so you can ride your bikes in peace until they are discontinued by walmart in 2016 (assuming of course the release of the 2013 spec lineup isnt going to cause the world to end as the mayans have predicted)


Rubbish, prediction is baseless.

It's well known that DW patented the mayan calendar and the pyramids.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

azdog said:


> I am more concerned with what happened to Scabrider?


sick...


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

but nostradamus wrote spesh was going to sue DW for the calendar and trek was getting the pyramids. i was upset when DW started slumming with boutique brands, but now i realize it wasnt his choice. his destiny was written!

if we can get jesus, pot, handguns, and 29ers into this thred somewhere we might have a winner!

wait..._.zombie_ thread...jesus is already represented.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Quarashi said:


> Rubbish, prediction is baseless.
> 
> It's well known that DW patented the mayan calendar and the pyramids.


Darrell Waltrip? Boogity boogity boogity!


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

oh blue thats the most I have laughed in a few days. Reading zoooombie thread and looking over at your avatar put it over the top.


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## azdog (Nov 16, 2004)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> sick...


Brings back memories!


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## Pslide (Jul 3, 2006)

Jayem said:


> Too bad it's not really true. Stratos failed because of exceptionally poor management, stagnation, and overall bad decisions...


I don't really care what happened to Stratos, I'm more pissed by what this says about Specialized. Those kind of tactics (and this is not the first time they've been rumored) in a relatively small industry composed mostly of fellow bikers are just unethical. Smart business, maybe - but I would never trade my ethics for money. And Sinyard's tactics don't just impact companies, they impact people's lives and they probably ruined this poor bloke. I'm glad I don't own any big-S bikes.

Apart from that, the resurrection of this thread has been a hilarious read...


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Pslide said:


> I don't really care what happened to Stratos, I'm more pissed by what this says about Specialized. Those kind of tactics (and this is not the first time they've been rumored) in a relatively small industry composed mostly of fellow bikers are just unethical. Smart business, maybe - but I would never trade my ethics for money. And Sinyard's tactics don't just impact companies, they impact people's lives and they probably ruined this poor bloke. I'm glad I don't own any big-S bikes.
> 
> Apart from that, the resurrection of this thread has been a hilarious read...


All this in an industry where companies, like Truvativ have give away or allowed other companies to use their patented ideas, in order to denefit the whole industry.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

Pslide said:


> I don't really care what happened to Stratos, I'm more pissed by what this says about Specialized. Those kind of tactics (and this is not the first time they've been rumored) in a relatively small industry composed mostly of fellow bikers are just unethical. Smart business, maybe - but I would never trade my ethics for money. And Sinyard's tactics don't just impact companies, they impact people's lives and they probably ruined this poor bloke. I'm glad I don't own any big-S bikes.
> 
> Apart from that, the resurrection of this thread has been a hilarious read...


are you kidding, . this is a costco, wallmart world, to think that the small guys will be able to compete with large companies is absurd. they dont go around picking the next company they are going to take down, they run a smart business, they spend more or R&D and to theink people can just get a free ride is stupid. as for ethics they will create more jobs not only in the US but in all the countries they manufacturer from, as that will increase jobs, and you know who else will benefit are all the suppliers of there parts, whch will keep those guys alive and growing. you need to think things out before making impulsive comments.

so all in all from the ethics point, they do more than you think.


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## Pslide (Jul 3, 2006)

eride1 said:


> are you kidding, . this is a costco, wallmart world, to think that the small guys will be able to compete with large companies is absurd. they dont go around picking the next company they are going to take down, they run a smart business, they spend more or R&D and to theink people can just get a free ride is stupid. as for ethics they will create more jobs not only in the US but in all the countries they manufacturer from, as that will increase jobs, and you know who else will benefit are all the suppliers of there parts, whch will keep those guys alive and growing. you need to think things out before making impulsive comments.
> 
> so all in all from the ethics point, they do more than you think.


Wow. Did you really just say all that?

Costco? Walmart? Not quite. The mountain bike industry is way smaller than that dude. I can walk up and talk to the owner of Santa Cruz at a World Cup. And small companies have traditionally done quite well...I could rattle off a dozen.

"they dont go around picking the next company they are going to take down"

Did you read the thread? That is exactly what Specialized did. They wanted something a smaller company had and they strongarmed them.

" they spend more or R&D and to theink people can just get a free ride is stupid"

Do you know how much money a small company has for R&D? Probably less than your house down payment. Take for example Banshee. Three guys, making a small salary, doing what they love. Of course they still do their R&D, but their budget is a drop in the bucket compared to a company like Specialized. They have to work smarter, not spend more as you suggest.

And jobs isn't the issue here.

The great thing about modern business is that the consumer knows a lot more about companies than they used to, and we are very connected, so if Specialized wants to get greedy and start knocking more little guys out of the game, they are going to loose face and loose sales from their enthusiast core. Mountain bikers are quite a progressive, well informed group. Of course Specialized will still make gobs of money from commuter and family bikes, but that's besides the point. We have a voice.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

eride1 said:


> are you kidding, . this is a costco, wallmart world, to think that the small guys will be able to compete with large companies is absurd. they dont go around picking the next company they are going to take down, they run a smart business, they spend more or R&D and to theink people can just get a free ride is stupid. as for ethics they will create more jobs not only in the US but in all the countries they manufacturer from, as that will increase jobs, and you know who else will benefit are all the suppliers of there parts, whch will keep those guys alive and growing. you need to think things out before making impulsive comments.
> 
> so all in all from the ethics point, they do more than you think.


Even Walmart, Costco, and yes The big S started small.


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## floydlippencott (Sep 4, 2010)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Even Walmart, Costco, and yes The big S started small.


The big s started with a "borrowed" design, ironic that they are so intent on leveling legal action so freely .


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## blue109 (Jun 21, 2009)

i remember in high school i had a friend with a stumpjumper. he was always jealous of my blinged out Cignal and my other friends Balance. we had the "cool" bikes and he had the lame special-ed. most people probably dont even remember those other 2 companies. spec must be doing something right.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

azdog said:


> Brings back memories!


Sick :lol: :cornut:


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

blue109 said:


> i remember in high school i had a friend with a stumpjumper. he was always jealous of my blinged out Cignal and my other friends Balance. we had the "cool" bikes and he had the lame special-ed. most people probably dont even remember those other 2 companies. spec must be doing something right.


Outsorcing, hiring 10 year olds to build parts, cutting out the LBS by building flagship stores and selling cheaper than a LBS.
Yep, they got that corporate greed thing down good. Thats what they are doing right.

Sick.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Swissam said:


> cutting out the LBS by building flagship stores and selling cheaper than a LBS..


Is that based on experience or assumption?

There's only one Spesh store near me (Harrogate, N-Yorks, UK), it's owned by the local shop (called Boneshakers).

Spesh approached them with the aim of opening a Spesh concept store in the area. They didn't push anyone out, didn't pull any dirty tricks, they didn't even ask them to shut the main store or to stop selling any rival brands. Spesh in one shop, Trek, Giant and a bunch of others two streets away.

As business tactics go, it all seems pretty honest to me.


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## eride1 (Oct 11, 2010)

Pslide said:


> Wow. Did you really just say all that?
> 
> Costco? Walmart? Not quite. The mountain bike industry is way smaller than that dude. I can walk up and talk to the owner of Santa Cruz at a World Cup. And small companies have traditionally done quite well...I could rattle off a dozen.
> 
> ...


listen more power to the small guys. i too wish them the best, and i dont like the fact that industries are getting monoplozied by the big boys, im just talking reality. your right there will always be passionit people starting up companies doing what they love, and much respect to them all. but in todays worlfd its all about bottom line for survival. as for the core riders thats in the know only make up maybe 5% of the industries revenue. unfortunately that isnt enough for longevity. i hope im wrong, i hope the small guys stay in business and grow to be a monster. im just going by the facts of life.


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## 1StuntMonkey (Jun 16, 2008)

I have a Stratos S8... 
Where to get parts? Service? 
Is the original manufacturer still doing service work, elsewhere?


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

1StuntMonkey said:


> I have a Stratos S8...
> Where to get parts? Service?
> Is the original manufacturer still doing service work, elsewhere?


Good luck with that, they've been out of business for 5 years.


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

1StuntMonkey said:


> I have a Stratos S8...
> Where to get parts? Service?
> Is the original manufacturer still doing service work, elsewhere?


Check with dirtlabs they might be willing to look at it and see if they can cross over bits. 

http://www.dirtlabs.com/


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## CombatMutt (Jan 3, 2011)

So all of this went down back in 2005/06. How big was Specialized back then? I don't think they were quite "The Big S" that they are today. I think people are getting their undies in a bunch about some stuff that went down five years ago.
The resurrected thread has been very entertaining and informative, right up until the sniping towards the end. I think that no matter how much information there is out there, that people will believe what they want to believe, and kind of, read what they want to read. A sort of, hear what you want to hear, if you will.


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

I recall around 2006 is when Specialized raised the prices of their bikes and began trying to market themselves as a high end bike company. Regardless, their bikes and business practices are garbage.


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## CombatMutt (Jan 3, 2011)

VT, do you think they are not a high end bike company? I understand that there's a lot of things about a big company that most mountain bikers don't like, especially when it comes to business practices. But, their bikes are garbage? I'm not sure I agree with that; overpriced maybe..........


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## VTSession (Aug 18, 2005)

They've got over a dozen bikes over $6000. Pretty sure that counts as a high end bike company.


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## CombatMutt (Jan 3, 2011)

VTSession said:


> They've got over a dozen bikes over $6000. Pretty sure that counts as a high end bike company.


Absolutely agree with you. It sounded to me like you didn't think so, my bad.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

In the context of current events, this thread is like deja vue all over again


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

MTB History 101


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## SLOPE (Jun 25, 2004)

This is the post that will never die...2006???


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> MTB History 101


very true....I remember the scabrider...big kid, waterpolo player and always wrote "sick"


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> In the context of current events, this thread is like deja vue all over again


care to elaborate? the context of current events? is specialized in a lawsuit with somebody?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

William42 said:


> care to elaborate? the context of current events? is specialized in a lawsuit with somebody?


isn't specializing always sueing someone


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## mrpercussive (Apr 4, 2006)

http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/specialized-again-760256.html


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

mrpercussive said:


> http://forums.mtbr.com/california-norcal/specialized-again-760256.html


a bunch of bs lawsuit...how many times are they going to switch there lawsuit


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## toowacky (May 24, 2005)

This thread is missing a "When does the FSR patent expire" comment.


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## Lunchbox362 (Jun 27, 2009)

EDIT: Damnit, I hate necro-ed threads....


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

I will NEVER have any respect for a company that got its start by stealing its first bike design, then goes on to sue everybody they think has even looked at them sideways. Its the prinicpal of the thing.
Sinyard < Single Celled Pond Scum.

michael


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## delirian (Jan 1, 2009)

it's always a shame to see the everyday little guy get screwed over by a multimillion pound corporattion. if everyone feels so strongly about the way specialised treat smaller buisneses then they should vote with their feet. it's simple if no one buys their products then there will be no company left to sue the little guy.... so come on people vote with your feet and give the little guy a very loud voice,,,


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> isn't specializing always sueing someone


I assume Sinyard has some kind of medical issue, like he can't get it up without watching a lawyers spank someone's arse or something.

Aaannyway...


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

toowacky said:


> This thread is missing a "When does the FSR patent expire" comment.


nobody cares because it looks flexy...


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

FSR in action :thumbsup:

DealExtreme - Novelty Dippy Drinking Bird - YouTube


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

dogonfr said:


> FSR in action :thumbsup:
> 
> DealExtreme - Novelty Dippy Drinking Bird - YouTube


Wouldn't that be perpetual motion?


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Wouldn't that be perpetual motion?


...nah spazzy motion


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## Pedal Shop (Dec 14, 2006)

Evil4bc said:


> Way to go Specialized .... *****ing on the little guy :thumbsup:
> 
> I have far to many stories/examples of how Specialized basically steals what ever idea they want and sues that orignal parent company into submission .


same here --- too many examples.

l will never buy anything from Specialized


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## dogonfr (Jan 6, 2005)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Wouldn't that be perpetual motion?


LoL ya Spazzy motion is more like it, they bounced like bob, Spec sold the public what it wanted to hear not what it did :rockon:

Is that you on the moto?


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

toowacky said:


> This thread is missing a "When does the FSR patent expire" comment.


January 21, 2012 (in 6 days)


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## BigHit-Maniac (Apr 13, 2004)

So..... quit buying Specialized bikes?!


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## zepp3lin (Dec 26, 2009)

Never had Spec before and never will. They are like Apple company suing everyone inline. And I never own an iphone either. 
But I do own a Transition bike.


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## Northender (Dec 2, 2011)

Alandrex said:


> Man thats terrible. The big companies are taking out the small friendly ones now.


Don't support the big companies and they'll go tits up. :thumbsup:


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