# Rohloff vs. Derailleur



## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

I converted my GF HiFi 29 to Rohloff about 9 months ago. After cracking the frame a few weeks ago, I took it in for warranty repair. The bike shop was kind enough to loan me a HiFi 29 from their rentals. This gave me two weeks to try out a derailleur on almost the same bike. 

At first, I thought I was in heaven. I slowly pedaled away from my car heading up hill in the lowest gear. Wow! It was sooo smooooth. As I continued on, I marveled at the relatively crisp, effortless shifting as my thumb gently clicked back and forth between gears. As I continued up the hill, I was already planning how I was going to convert my bike back to a traditional derailleur drivetrain and sell my Rohloff hub, then crrrrrck, crrrrrck, crrrrk ...

As the trail leveled out a little and I shifted further into the cassette, I found a gear that wasn't quite in tune. I got out of this gear by moving into the middle ring. As I continued to ride I experienced more of this annoying out of tune gear, along with a couple of dropped chains, some slipping, ghost shifts, FD rub, etc. 

A couple of miles up the trail, I got frustrated enough to tune up the drivetrain and things got a little better. When I got home a did a more thorough job of cleaning and tuning the drivetrain and subsequent rides got better but still not trouble free. 

A couple of weeks later, I got my bike back and was looking forward to getting back with my Rohloff. As I pedaled away from the car up the same hill, there was that familiar grind in the lower gears. Shifting required that brief hesitation in pedaling and the shifter felt loose and clunky. Beyond that it was rock solid and 100% reliable. 

In the end, I found I do appreciate the light, crisp feel of a derailleur drivetrain and I can see how many would prefer it. A well tuned derailleur system is hard to beat in many ways. For me, I prefer the Rohloff. It's a little clunky but rock solid. I don't want to fiddle with my bike at home or on the trail. I want to check the tire pressure and ride.


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## wheezee (Jun 23, 2008)

This is my experience also. I swap back and forth between the two, and on balance the Rohloff has the edge.


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## SimonMW (Mar 12, 2007)

Mechs are great when set up well, and you are only riding in dry dusty conditions. But when thick clay like mud is about systems like the Rohloff will come into their own.

I pine for the day when I can afford one! The weather this year in the UK has been pretty much consistent rain. Almost every ride I have been on this year has resulted in a jammed up front and rear mech halfway through the ride. I'm also fed up of how awkward and time consuming it is to clean out a traditional drivetrain compared to what it would be like with a Rohloff.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

I have to agree with Simon. It's dry and dusty here in So Cal. Mud isn't an issue. I have a Rohloff DB and a DT Swiss 440 Freeride hub. I've no problems with keeping the derailleur tuned and shifting perfectly and smooth. All I did was read SRAMS directions on the website on how to tune their derailleur, and mine has been flawless ever since. I did have some problems with the Rohloff shifting from 3rd to 4th and freewheeling dangerously on climbs. Rohloff fixed it, put in a brand new gearbox in my hub, on 11-11-08 and now it's going to sit unused, up for sale. I am 50 years old, 6'5" and 215 pounds. I ride for fun and pretty slow these days. To me, the DT Swiss 440 Freeride feels better for 99.9% of my applications and riding needs here in Southern California. For someone in the snow belt or Northern tier states that rides year round... a Rohloff is probably a great drive train system, when they are working right, they are about bomb proof. But you'll pay a price meshing all those gears in a bath of viscous gear oil in lost effciency. I've done enough climbs on both a Rohloff and a the 440 Freeride here in Southern California clocked on my GPS, same tires, same tube, and it indeed takes me 10 to 12% longe in my finish times to get up the same grade. The Rohloff is a drag spinning all those internal gears, compared to a 9 speed cassette.


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## yoohoo (Jul 23, 2008)

I rode the roloff for the 1st time this weekend. It was on a LiteSpeed Obed 29r. It was by far the worst drivetrain item I have ever ridden. It failed to shift 75% of the time. It was hard to get used to with the grip shift. I was not impressed with it all. I can see that it would be great for fire roads or anything that does not have tight technical single track. I hated every minute of the ride with the thing. I tried to have a good attitude about it but after a few miles of it not shifting when I needed it to, I was over it. If the bike had not been a demo from the bike shop there would be a expensive hub laying on the trail. I would not be happy if I had spent that kind of money on it. I will take my xtr anyday.

*disclaimer*
This is only my opinion and does not have much value.

N.


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## SimonMW (Mar 12, 2007)

Yoohoo, it sounds like you have a duff model or you are shifting wrongly. One thing I hear is that you can't shift the Rohloff under pressured pedaling.

After all Rohloffs reputation hasn't come from nowhere.


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## wheezee (Jun 23, 2008)

There is a technique to it, just as there is for derailleur gears. If you've grown up with the der. you'll assume it's the natural way to shift gears, but it still has to be learnt in the first place.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

I'm not sure why folks have all these mysterious problems with derailleurs. I have tuned both SRAM and Shimano drivetrains and though I have spent up to 2 hours getting them just right, once set, they perform wonderfully. Yes, I know that certain conditions make them all but unusable, and maybe a Rohloff would make more sense in those extremes but for a majority of riding conditions, I just can't see dealing with the concentrated weight and cost!

Whenever someone speaks about bad shifting Rohloffs, inevitably somebody will chime in with shifting techniques. I find it's the same thing with derailleurs and a cassette <I know, duh!>. I split the cassette into thirds and shift into the appropriate ring when shifting into the next 1/3 set of cogs...probably like most folks who understand the limitations of the system.

However, I see a *ton* of people riding around cross-chained with their chains popping and the bottom tensioner wheel chatttering away on an obviously neglected system and I'm pretty sure they must think derailluers suck.

After riding a buddies bike with a Rohloff...I loved it, but *certainly* not enough to actually spend the $1400 on one...ouch!


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Konish said:


> ...I have tuned both SRAM and Shimano drivetrains and though *I have spent up to 2 hours getting them just right*, once set, they perform wonderfully. Yes, *I know that certain conditions make them all but unusable*, ...I loved it, but *certainly* not enough to actually spend the $1400 on one...ouch!


I see why you love derailliuers, those silly IGH'ers, what are they thinking


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## yoohoo (Jul 23, 2008)

i tried and tried to shift it correctly but with steep climbs and lots of switch backs there is only so much you can do. like i said it was great for the fire roads going to the trails. it was not great for tight steep single track.


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## rmi63 (Feb 22, 2004)

I recently converted over about 8 months ago and remembered the same thing trying to shift the rohloff on steep climbs. I had a lot of difficulties my first couple of rides from getting use to the grip shifter and the difference in shifting from a derailleur. Once you get the hang of it, which takes at least several rides, than it is fine and crisp. The shift from 8-7 is the biggest obstacle though.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

yoohoo said:


> i tried and tried to shift it correctly but with steep climbs and lots of switch backs there is only so much you can do. like i said it was great for the fire roads going to the trails. it was not great for tight steep single track.


I ride derailleur bikes and a Rohloff bike - the shifting is different for sure.

To make a derailleur bike shift well you learn a set of skills. Lots of people blow shifts with derailleurs and have all sorts of issues - while others don't. The people that don't have learned how to shift and pedal to get their bike to work optimally for them.

The same goes with a Rohloff. You need to learn a new set of skills to make it work optimally for you. Once you get the hang of it you'll be cruising up and down the gears on a Rohloff without a problem, but your first ride might be ugly.

If you really think a Rohloff is something you'd be interested in I'd say it's worth spending some time figuring out the shifting. If you are happy with derailleurs then why bother? Stick with what you know.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

vikb said:


> I ride derailleur bikes and a Rohloff bike - the shifting is different for sure.
> 
> To make a derailleur bike shift well you learn a set of skills. Lots of people blow shifts with dérailleurs and have all sorts of issues - while others don't. The people that don't have learned how to shift and pedal to get their bike to work optimally for them.
> 
> ...


I agree with every word, especially the last paragraph.

If you are truly interested in a Rohloff you really have to give it some time. It's not something you are likely to fall in love with from the start. When I first got on mine, I thought I had made a very expensive mistake. You can read about it here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=389339

The point of this thread is that I was still somewhat questioning my Rohloff when I went back to a derailleur. For me, a Rohloff just barely edges out a derailleur and I can see why some would prefer a derailleur. Like a lot of people, I'm finding I like my Rohloff more and more each ride. It seems like both me and the Rohloff are getting smoother with the miles.

As for difficult shifts on an uphill switchback, that's one of the places where a Rohloff really shines. If you can get over the mental obstacle of hesitating your pedal stroke for an instant while you shift, you'll find that what you get in return is an immediate gear shift. A Rohloff gear shift is actually much faster than a derailleur once you get the hang of it. You don't have to crank out a stroke or two waiting for the new gear to fully engage. A Rohloff does have some down sides, but I find difficult uphill shifts are actually easier on a Rohloff once you learn to shift it.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

pursuiter said:


> I see why you love derailliuers, those silly IGH'ers, what are they thinking


Not sure if that compares to the, no kidding, weeks it took my buddy to finally get everything he needed to make his Rohloff work and then the 2 hours it took to install and adjust. Oh, I almost forgot the 4 weeks it took to have his wheel built with the Rohloff in the first place. :thumbsup:

To be sure an IGH is on the agenda for another build, but I'm thinking something more in line with an SRAM or Shimano hub. My comment was aimed more at these folks that have *every* derailluer problem known to exist with the system on a single ride...I just don't think getting derailleurs to work well is the leap of faith that some seem to make it.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Konish said:


> Oh, I almost forgot the 4 weeks it took to have his wheel built with the Rohloff in the first place.


4 weeks? Building a Rohloff wheel is no different than building a wheel with a normal rear hub. Aside from the hub itself there are no specialized parts needed. What would take weeks?...



Konish said:


> his Rohloff work and then the 2 hours it took to install and adjust.


Installing and cabling a derailleur setup can take as long as a Rohloff. I installed my Rohloff and I've built derailleur bikes. I don't see either as being crushingly faster.



Konish said:


> To be sure an IGH is on the agenda for another build, but I'm thinking something more in line with an SRAM or Shimano hub. My comment was aimed more at these folks that have *every* derailluer problem known to exist with the system on a single ride...I just don't think getting derailleurs to work well is the leap of faith that some seem to make it.


I agree that derailleurs work well for a lot of people a lot of the time. If Rohloff's didn't exist it isn't like we couldn't ride our bikes or life as we know it would end. I've ridden thousands of kms of trails using derailleurs with a smile on my face.

I do think Rohloffs offer some advantages over derailleurs, but those advantages only make sense to some riders. You'll never go for a ride and see 20 Rohloffs cruising your local trails.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

I'm not here to talk anyone out of dérailleurs, but the one thing I really like about the Rohloff is the instant shift, and the ability to downshift on a steep technical climb instantly, anywhere on the climb, something that you can't easily do with dérailleurs.

When you learn to shift dérailleurs efficiently, you pre-shift at the trigger, just before you let up on the pedal, and when done right, the shift is fast and clean. On a Rohloff there is no pre-shift, if the shifter clicks, you are now in that gear. Period. If you are use to dérailleur pre-shifting, it simply does not work with the Rohloff - the shifter will not move (unless you had pre-governator Schwarzenegger arms) until you let up on the pedal. Some people adapt to the new timing, some people never do - we have someone who tried for several months, and is much happier back on her dérailleur.

Ever try to explain a non-linear gear system to someone to prevent cross-chaining - I think a pretty big portion of our population falls into the "I give up" category.


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## nicolap99 (Mar 21, 2006)

I've got two off road bikes, that are pretty identical except for the drive chain.

Both are Nicolai Helius CC, one with conventional gearing (Mix of XT and XTR) 9 speed 11-32 cassette. The other Helius is Rohloff Speedhub specific.

I prefer to ride the Rohloff equipped bike, but there are some advantages / disadvantages.

The advantages of the Rohloff bike.
Very dependable gear change, no mis shifts or chain slap / chain falling off over very rough ground.
Reduced maintenance.
Easy to keep clean.
Always works like brand new without any adjustment.
Quiet drive chain

The advantages of the geared Helius
Lighter total bike weight, but not so much that you'd really notice.
Rapid fire shifters seem to be more intuitive than the Rohloff twist grip.
Not much maintenance if the weather is dry.

Overall I prefer the Rohloff bike, and have considered breaking the geared bike and selling most parts on Ebay, but the luxury of a spare backup bike is a good option.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

nicolap99 said:


> I've got two off road bikes, that are pretty identical except for the drive chain.
> 
> Both are Nicolai Helius CC, one with conventional gearing (Mix of XT and XTR) 9 speed 11-32 cassette. The other Helius is Rohloff Speedhub specific.
> 
> ...


So if you have two identical FS bikes, you are the man to ask this question:
all other things aside, is there a difference between the two in how the rear reacts to bumps/impacts? Do you feel the much increased rear hub weight? 
thanks in advance


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## nicolap99 (Mar 21, 2006)

Umm, yep there is a difference, I find descending better on the Rohloff. The added weight seems to help keep the back end in control more. There's less a the light back end feel that I get with the conventional geared bike.

Climbing on the Rohloff is sometimes a little more prone to drag, but I'm being a little critical here, the more miles I've put on the Rohloff the less noticeable its become. 

Only really notice the weight when I have to lift the bike up. 

You've probably gathered that all things being equal I prefer the Rohloff. The only improvement to be made on the Rohloff would be the long awaited trigger shifter.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

nicolap99 said:


> Umm, yep there is a difference, I find descending better on the Rohloff. The added weight seems to help keep the back end in control more. There's less a the light back end feel that I get with the conventional geared bike.
> 
> Climbing on the Rohloff is sometimes a little more prone to drag, but I'm being a little critical here, the more miles I've put on the Rohloff the less noticeable its become.
> 
> ...


Thanks.
I am preparing to build a 09 SC Nomad on a rohloff hub and I am testing right now the added weight (1kg) on the rear hub on my SC LT2. The two bikes are quite simmilar (2nd gen vpp) and the more I ride it the more I am surprised how little the difference is.
What is your setup on that helius in terms of chain tensioners/guides?
I wanted to skip the rear tensioner (enough weight there already) in favor of a custom made MRP MiniG with a surly singleator as a bottom pulley but the more I think of it, the more I think it'd be safer to have sth holding the chain under the rear cog. So probably MiniG and rohloff DH tensioner in the end:/
edit: you have CC or TS axle? I am a tad affraid of running a quick release on such a heavy hub:/


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## nicolap99 (Mar 21, 2006)

Have a look at the link for some images of both bikes.

I use the Rohloff chain tensioner and chain guide, haven't had the chain fall off once, it must be doing its job as the inner plates on the chain guide are a little scuffed.

Using a normal (XT) quick release on the Rohloff, no problems at all.

http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=584360

http://my.opera.com/nicolap99/albums/show.dml?id=479806

The only thing I would recommend is that you use Shimano SP41 outer gear cable with XTR inner gear cables to shift with. The Rohloff cables are troublesome due to the cable liner being pulled into the twist grip.

I've even tried Shimano brake outer with the XTR inners,but the gear cable option is much smoother.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

nicolap99 said:


> Have a look at the link for some images of both bikes.
> 
> I use the Rohloff chain tensioner and chain guide, haven't had the chain fall off once, it must be doing its job as the inner plates on the chain guide are a little scuffed.
> 
> ...


Thanks. 
I have no idea what type of riding you do with it though. I do some heavier stuff too and I'd normaly go with bolt-on anytime. Do you by any chance know what the weight diff is between CC and TS on same type of hub? XT QRs are quite strong btw.


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## nicolap99 (Mar 21, 2006)

I don't seek out to take off at every single opportunity, but I will get a little air on the natural flow of the trail (but nothing really hardcore, too old for that 

I don't know the weigh difference between the two versions, but I think it would be negligible, should be some info on the Rohloff site though.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

I couldn't find it:/
The rear DH tensioner seems to have quite a strong spring, doesn't it? The thing that worries me is that this spring is so open to mud - did you have anny issues of this sort?
I also have to skip the speedbone but it will require some filing on the brake adapter to make it work. I couldn't use it because on newer SC frames, the bolt heads are hidden in the mount which would make the speedbone too far out. Look:







Eh, I will make it all work though.


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## nicolap99 (Mar 21, 2006)

No issues with mud and grime, and there's plenty of abrasive grime where I normally ride.

Have a search for the Money Bone to replace the torque arm / speedbone , its amuch neater solution for frames that don't have Rohloff specific dropouts. 

Of course, you could always buy a Nicolai........


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

krolik said:


> I also have to skip the speedbone but it will require some filing on the brake adapter to make it work. I couldn't use it because on newer SC frames, the bolt heads are hidden in the mount which would make the speedbone too far out.


I would use a MonkeyBone on that instead of a speedbone (as nicolap99 mentioned).

I have both TS and CC (both DB) hubs, but I never weighted them prior to building the wheel. The only difference is the solid axle, which is longer, and the cap nuts. I'm sure it's at least 100g heavier, but with the overall weight of the Rohloff, you won't notice it.

The TS was designed for track mounts or semi-horizontal slots (campy ones). That's what I used it on originally. They also hold better on odd OEM2 torque arm configurations where the torque on the arm has a tendency to push the axle out of the dropout. The CC with a decent QR skewer hold fine for all other applications, including DH according to Rohloff. However, there's no reason not to use a TS version for more security if it fits. The only time I've had issues with the TS hub is with a hooded dropout, you need a socket head to access the nut, which is a pain to carry (my solution was to use coupling nuts).


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

itsdoable said:


> I would use a MonkeyBone on that instead of a speedbone (as nicolap99 mentioned).
> 
> I have both TS and CC (both DB) hubs, but I never weighted them prior to building the wheel. The only difference is the solid axle, which is longer, and the cap nuts. I'm sure it's at least 100g heavier, but with the overall weight of the Rohloff, you won't notice it.
> 
> The TS was designed for track mounts or semi-horizontal slots (campy ones). That's what I used it on originally. They also hold better on odd OEM2 torque arm configurations where the torque on the arm has a tendency to push the axle out of the dropout. The CC with a decent QR skewer hold fine for all other applications, including DH according to Rohloff. However, there's no reason not to use a TS version for more security if it fits. The only time I've had issues with the TS hub is with a hooded dropout, you need a socket head to access the nut, which is a pain to carry (my solution was to use coupling nuts).


this is EXACTLY what I have planned on the Hope adapter I'd prefer a stock item but it says on their website there's only a version for 160mm rotor no go for me:nono: 
I wonder how much the speedbone weighs alone.
I wish the CC axle was somewhat larger in diameter, so that I could drill it to adopt a DT 10mm RWS TB. No problem on the rotor side but I'd be scared to risk drilling thru the hub without confirmation


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

bsdc said:


> I agree with every word, especially the last paragraph.
> 
> If you are truly interested in a Rohloff you really have to give it some time. It's not something you are likely to fall in love with from the start. When I first got on mine, I thought I had made a very expensive mistake. You can read about it here:
> 
> ...


I can shift a derailleur under light load while still pedaling and maintain forward momentum. I can't do that on my Rohloff, I have to hesitate or stop, then reingage the freewheel with a clunk. There isn't time for that when you are straining going up a 20 to 25% grade single track with switchbacks. To have a Rohloff that then freewheels unexpectedly when shifted into 4th gear, due to defective workmanship... Let's just say my confidence is shaken in the Rohloff, I won't go back. I've _*never*_ had that kind of issue with SRAM drive train and DTSwiss hubs, ever, not shifting. I can't afford it when I'm climbing on on steep single track with extreme exposure in the San Gabriels. There is no margin for error. Unless you've ridden a mining footpath up to the mines that was layed out in the late 1800's here, you won't understand. The Rohloff doesn't cut it here.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

RandyBoy,

You've got limited experience with a used Rohloff, that didn't shift well, that you bought off Ebay. You've got a chip on your shoulder because Rohloff, like many other manufacturers, only warranties their product to the original owner.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> ...Unless you've ridden a mining footpath up to the mines that was layed out in the late 1800's here, you won't understand. The Rohloff doesn't cut it here.


RB, you are starting to sound like a jilted woman, very bitter :eekster:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

He's got a serious case of sour grapes. 

I doubt any broken gear would be much fun on a steep technical climb. IGH, derailleur, fixed/SS, SRAM, Shimano, Rohloff....whatever. It helps to ride a bike in good working order.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

bsdc said:


> RandyBoy ... You've got a chip on your shoulder because Rohloff, like many other manufacturers, only warranties their product to the original owner.


From reading all the threads, my impression is that Rohloff _did_ warrentee the hub, however they did not pay for the shipping and consumables used to debug the problem. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got.

If I had bought the hub new from a store, I'd be pissed too. If I had bought it off eBay, I would have suspected that the previous owner was dumping something he broke, or was a lemon.

And comparing a _defective_ geared hub to a perfectly working dérailleur is hardly reasonable.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

itsdoable said:


> From reading all the threads, my impression is that Rohloff _did_ warrentee the hub, however they did not pay for the shipping and consumables used to debug the problem. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the impression I got.
> 
> If I had bought the hub new from a store, I'd be pissed too. If I had bought it off eBay, I would have suspected that the previous owner was dumping something he broke, or was a lemon.
> 
> And comparing a _defective_ geared hub to a perfectly working dérailleur is hardly reasonable.


I'm not sure any of us are totally clear on the whole story of Randyboys hub. It took an astute reader to reveal, through information on another thread, that Randyboy was having problems with a used hub he bought off Ebay. Either way it doesn't matter. He's got limited experience on a hub that didn't shift well and he's upset at Rohloff because it cost him money to fix it. Strangely, I don't think he's expressed any problems with the person that sold him the used hub. I agree with you that the guy probabaly knew there was a problem and dumped it off on him. When everyone didn't jump on his side with his complaint against Rohloff he decided he'd chime in on Rohloff threads and tell us all how bad it shifts.


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## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

I don't have a problem with RandyBoy expressing his views, that's what this forum is for, good or bad views, weither I agree or not.

My first Rohloff freewheeled when I took it out below -5C, and when that happens on a steep technical climb and you are stomping on the power after a shift, well... I'm sure it was comical to watch, but I run a pad on the stem now. Apparently I can ride my bike downhill backwards with my head touching the front wheel. 

Anyways I know what that is like, and why someone would be pissed. However, I contacted Rohloff and discovered I needed to winterize the oil in the hub, something I didn't know then. It wasn't the hub's failure, it was my failure to know the limits of the equipment, and the necessary service required. Rohloff even offered to check over the hub to make sure it was OK and performing to spec, which I eventually did do, but for another reason. They did not offer to pay for shipping, and I'm OK with that (if I had worked though an lbs, they would have payed for shipping). Now I know the performance envelope of each hub I own, and have had no more unexpected incidences. 

The main thing I wanted to point out about RandyBoy's post was that comparing a defective product purchased on eBay, to working ones is simply not reasonable. The Rohloff is not for everyone, and I know several people who can't stand it.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

itsdoable said:


> I don't have a problem with RandyBoy expressing his views, that's what this forum is for, good or bad views, weither I agree or not.
> 
> My first Rohloff freewheeled when I took it out below -5C, and when that happens on a steep technical climb and you are stomping on the power after a shift, well... I'm sure it was comical to watch, but I run a pad on the stem now. Apparently I can ride my bike downhill backwards with my head touching the front wheel.
> 
> ...


I have a problem with someone expressing opinions on issues with products they have little experience with. If I buy a used fork off Ebay, ride it a few times, find out it has a problem, get upset because the manufacturer won't fix it for free, and then sell it, that doesn't put me in a position to provide a reasonable product review for that fork.

The only useful information Randyboy has provided is that Rohloff doesn't provide 5 star service to second owners of used hubs. From what I've read Rohloff does provide 4 star service to original owners.

The Rohloff Speedhub is FAR from perfect. There is a bit of compromise you must endure to enjoy some of the perks of a Rohloff. I think most Rohloff owners I've read reviews from have been pretty clear about the ups and downs of going with a Speedhub. It's certainly not for everyone. It's certainly not better than a derailleur. It's just different. In some ways a derailleur is better.

I strongly encourage anyone thinking of buying a Rohloff to read as many experienced reviews as possible and really consider if going with a Speedhub is right for you. Riding a Rohloff is like dating a high maintenance, chubby nymphomaniac. Yea, she costs a bit of money and she's a little heavy, but once you get to know her, she can be quite fun.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

bsdc said:


> I strongly encourage anyone thinking of buying a Rohloff to read as many experienced reviews as possible and really consider if going with a Speedhub is right for you. Riding a Rohloff is like dating a high maintenance, chubby nymphomaniac. Yea, she costs a bit of money and she's a little heavy, but once you get to know her, she can be quite fun.


nice comparison 
I'm in that exactly point. I made some tests with weight added to my current rear hub, I've checked and thought over all aspects of chain tension in my fs case, I've checked best available deals.
I still wonder if I will be totaly happy with it but somehow I know I have to see for myself.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

krolik said:


> nice comparison
> I'm in that exactly point. I made some tests with weight added to my current rear hub, I've checked and thought over all aspects of chain tension in my fs case, I've checked best available deals.
> I still wonder if I will be totaly happy with it but somehow I know I have to see for myself.


I would say the weight is negligable while riding. I really only notice it when I load my bike on the car rack and when I put it on the scale. When going back and forth between the Rohloff and derailleur bikes I don't recall noticing the weight.

I'm pretty sure you'll need a tensioner for a FS bike unless you get a Lenz Milk Money or something like that.

I'm all for finding deals but I've found the added service of a good local bike shop can sometimes be worth the small premium one might pay. In the case of my Rohloff build, I went through a bike shop, got the Rohloff cheaper than internet prices and they put it together for me, making a bit of money off the Rohloff and the other components I bought.

A Rohloff is something to experience. I really think the biggest obsticle to get over is the grinding. In some gears it feels like you're pedaling through sand in the hub. If you believe your sensation, you'll think the Rohloff is slowing you down and you'll probably never like the hub. If you believe the research, you'll think it's not slowing you down and you'll grow to like the hub. Since I have access to a nearly identicle derailleured bike, I plan on doing my own study on the issue some day. Still, like you said, you have to try it for yourself.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

bsdc said:


> I would say the weight is negligable while riding. I really only notice it when I load my bike on the car rack and when I put it on the scale. When going back and forth between the Rohloff and derailleur bikes I don't recall noticing the weight.
> 
> I'm pretty sure you'll need a tensioner for a FS bike unless you get a Lenz Milk Money or something like that.
> 
> ...


I don't care about the overall weight increase. It's the place you have the extra weight in that worries me. Still - sth that can be fixed with MY shock setup (no idea of other designs)
---------------------
I am going this way: E13 LG1 2009 & Blackspire MonoVeloce 36t plus a rohloff dh tensioner or something like the singleator in the back plus the rohloff dh chainguide ring behind the 16t cog. I thought about modifying the lower pulley of the LG1 to be a tensioner at the front chainring but - after many sleepless nights - I will feel safer when sth guides the chain next to the cog. Plus there's no space to do it on the new Nomad if you want the tensioner to be well protected.
--------------------------------
As for price/shop
I live in Poland. Let me do the numbers in my currency:
Polish LBS - 5300PLN ($1710)
German LBS - 3700PLN ($1180)
dofference is 1600PLN = $530...
plus I live near the german border, so I can buy and service there.
Prices are for a set w/o disc w/o discount and i hope to squeez something better out of them after christmass


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

krolik said:


> I don't care about the overall weight increase. It's the place you have the extra weight in that worries me. Still - sth that can be fixed with MY shock setup (no idea of other designs)
> ---------------------
> I am going this way: E13 LG1 2009 & Blackspire MonoVeloce 36t plus a rohloff dh tensioner or something like the singleator in the back plus the rohloff dh chainguide ring behind the 16t cog. I thought about modifying the lower pulley of the LG1 to be a tensioner at the front chainring but - after many sleepless nights - I will feel safer when sth guides the chain next to the cog. Plus there's no space to do it on the new Nomad if you want the tensioner to be well protected.
> --------------------------------
> ...


I didn't notice any change in rear suspension performance when I added the Rohloff. I don't recall making any changes to the shock. I remember reading of people speculating on rear suspension performance changes with a heavier hub, but I don't remember anyone noting any significant problems. I think some said they just adjusted the shock pressure.

I use a Rohloff chain tensioner and no chain guide with not one dropped chain in a year of riding. I do like the idea of using a chain tensioner at the bottom bracket, but haven't bothered with it.

It's amazing how different the price is with crossing the border to Germany. I think I paid about $1180 for my hub hear in the US at a local bike shop. With the wheel build, chainring, chain tensioner, and Ergon levers, it was closer to $1800.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

It is amazing indeed. 
Plus it took our polish distr THREE WEEKS to calculate the price:madman: 
I mean Poland is a growing market but if our distr is waiting for someone to order 10speedhubs at a time and skips people like me than he ain't going to make it to the shore.

As for the tensioner, I was eager to try the roox rollercoaster at the bottom bracket but the 2nd gen VPP makes it useless because it would be very low and you'd hit it every time you go over an obstacle using your bashring. It is a perfect solution for a Heckler or a Bullit or any other elevated chainstay design.

As for impact on the suspension, I did notice (with unchanged shock settings) some easier 'packing up' of the rear when going over a repeated series of obstacles at high speed. It is easy to tune it to be right though.

I still haven't had a chance to test ride any speedhub equipped bike though:/ And it ain't going to happen unless I go to Germany - our distr didn't sell even one hub in two years, not to mention owning a test bike


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

I would say go let your local distributor have a chance to match the price in Germany but it might not be worth it. 

The Roox looks awkward to me. A FS bike may require a double pulley to allow enough chain growth, but I would want to try a single pulley that would snug the chain up high off the ground.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

German LBS - 3700PLN ($1180), is this right? I could buy one in Germany when I'm there on business and get the VAT refunded.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

This is what I am planning as well. Prices are from EUR 800 for the rim brake version to EUR 950 for DB. You have to calculate your exchange rate (very bad in my case lately).
Look here for example:
http://www.tnc-hamburg.com/TNC-Shop/index.php/cat/c725_Speedhub-CC.html

there are many shops that offer these and it is usually cheaper to buy the whole wheel like this one (ebay but also a shop in berlin):
http://cgi.ebay.de/Laufrad-Rohloff-...14&_trkparms=72:1231|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318
This is what I am planning to buy as soon as the exchange rate drops a tad and christmass are behind us.


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## krolik (Jun 9, 2006)

bsdc said:


> The Roox looks awkward to me. A FS bike may require a double pulley to allow enough chain growth, but I would want to try a single pulley that would snug the chain up high off the ground.


There is just 20mm chaingrowth on the new nomad so one wheel is plenty. Still, it sounds safer to run it in the rear as the chain will be guided more 'around' the cog, which is quite small in diameter. For my taste, the LG1 with bottom pulley and a singleator in the rear will be perfect on my build. I will definietly try to run it with the singleator as the lower pulley @ chainring too though. If it works and I get no dropped chains - perfect. If not - I will run the former setup. the DH guidering sounds like a must too.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

bsdc said:


> I have a problem with someone expressing opinions on issues with products they have little experience with. If I buy a used fork off Ebay, ride it a few times, find out it has a problem, get upset because the manufacturer won't fix it for free, and then sell it, that doesn't put me in a position to provide a reasonable product review for that fork.
> 
> The only useful information Randyboy has provided is that Rohloff doesn't provide 5 star service to second owners of used hubs. From what I've read Rohloff does provide 4 star service to original owners.
> 
> ...


I have a problem with people like you that aren't experienced with Rohloff failures discounting my personal experience. Twisting a shifter is a no brainer while pausing from pedalling. I was able to do it quite easily back in 1967 when I got a Rolls Royce with a 3 speed Sturmey Archer. I had no problems adapting either to a 10 speed Nishiki derailleur either in 1970. Come to think of it, in all the years I've owned bikes that shift, including my 1967 Schwinn Stingray with a kickback Bendix 2 speed hub, I've never had a single missed shift like my *defective* 500/14 DB TC Rohloff.

You can cry sour grapes all you want, no one here except Rohloff and myself know the full details... Rohloff because they opened the gearbox up, claimed in writing via email that it was practically brand new inside and defective, that it had to go back to Germany to be shimmed properly, they can't shim them here in the USA, it takes special fixtures and measuring tools as well as qualified technicians to make the measurements and shim it properly.

If you can explain to me how in 700 miles of documented mileage and riding, 500 of those Lift Assisted riding, which clearly masked the defective gearbox,. adding aproximately 20 riding days in 6 weeks at around 9 to 13 miles and 1500 to 2500 vertical feet climbing up real mountains here in the San Gabriel Mountians of Southern California, that I destroyed the shimming of the gears, or the previous owner either, when he never used the lower 7 gears because all he rode was Whistler on the hub on his freeride bike, then you must know more than Rohloff USA, the previous owner, and myself about this particular Rohloff hub.

My bike is maintained very well, thank you, it's why I sent the Rohloff in when it was discovered as being defective from the factory, one of the 2%ers that are junk and miss shifts, because.someone at the factory screwed up on the measurements, or wasn't skilled in reading a gauge, was lazy, or perhaps was just plain spiteful towards his/her employer.

I used the hub as it was designed and intended to be used, and it failed to deliver and shift properly. It would sometimes shift from 4th to 7th gear also instead of 4th to 5th after being ridden up steep hills under heavy load and torque. I weigh 215 pounds and am by no means an Olympic caliber riding or able to make that much power as two riders on a tandem bike, which the Rohloff is claimed to be capable of handling.

So regardless how you claim it, warranty, 2 years, what ever, it failed within 400 documented miles. Sometimes the truth hurts, just deal with it., The Rohloff I had was defective from the factory if you have to swap out the gearbox in 700 miles. They are out there, and Rohloff should make right and do a factory recall on the bad hubs at zero expense to the owner, if they know they are out there, unsafe and dangerous, being a hazard to the operators health. It's all well documented, Rohloff just doesn't want you to know the truth.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> So regardless how you claim it, warranty, 2 years, what ever, it failed within 400 documented miles. Sometimes the truth hurts, just deal with it., The Rohloff I had was defective from the factory if you have to swap out the gearbox in 700 miles. They are out there, and Rohloff should make right and do a factory recall on the bad hubs at zero expense to the owner, if they know they are out there, unsafe and dangerous, being a hazard to the operators health. It's all well documented, Rohloff just doesn't want you to know the truth.


Since you seem not to *"get it"*. I'll explain once more.

- about 1% of Rohloff hubs need to go back to the factory to be re-shimmed early on in their lives
- this is just life with Rohloff and isn't a secret
- this work is covered under the warranty
- your hub had no warranty as you were the second owner...:nono: 
- therefore Rohloff had no obligation to fix your hub for free
- the fact your hub was low mileage has no impact on the fact you had no warranty coverage. If you had bough that hub from the same guy new in the box it would still have no warranty coverage.
- no recall on the hubs is required since they will fix at their expense any new hub that is part of this 1% that needs adjustment under warranty

You want to be treated like a customer who bought a new hub from Rohloff or one of it's dealers, but you didn't want to pay the full price of a new hub so you bought one used. There is a reason used parts are cheaper - they are partly worn and most warranties don't transfer to the second owner.

To quote you "..the truth hurts, just deal with it..."...:madman:


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

vikb said:


> Since you seem not to *"get it"*. I'll explain once more.
> 
> - about 1% of Rohloff hubs need to go back to the factory to be re-shimmed early on in their lives
> - this is just life with Rohloff and isn't a secret
> ...


... and furthermore, you aren't offering useful experience on the difference between riding with a Rohloff vs a derailleur. How can you provide a useful perspective when you've got limited experience with a bad hub? You're just re-grinding your axe against Rohloff. We've heard you. Most of us don't hold your perspective of the situation but we sympathize with your difficulties. It certainly has me questioning the value of purchasing major bike parts off Ebay. Anyone researching Rohloff on this site will surely come across your thread. You have made your point. It has further reinforced my recent experiences that paying a slight premium at a bike shop can be worth it for the added protection and service.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*At this point, Randyboy,*

your content reflects more about you than the hub...........

Back to the issue, my son is riding a Rolhoff and his team is working on the pave. He runs a 38:16 and says that at speed with a pack of the top riders he's spun out. And he tends to be a pretty high cadence rider.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> Back to the issue, my son is riding a Rolhoff and his team is working on the pave. He runs a 38:16 and says that at speed with a pack of the top riders he's spun out. And he tends to be a pretty high cadence rider.


He can try a 40T or 42T chainring depending on how he feels about the low end of the gear range. That will shift the whole range upwards.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

bsdc said:


> ... and furthermore, you aren't offering useful experience on the difference between riding with a Rohloff vs a derailleur. How can you provide a useful perspective when you've got limited experience with a bad hub? You're just re-grinding your axe against Rohloff. We've heard you. Most of us don't hold your perspective of the situation but we sympathize with your difficulties. It certainly has me questioning the value of purchasing major bike parts off Ebay. Anyone researching Rohloff on this site will surely come across your thread. You have made your point. It has further reinforced my recent experiences that paying a slight premium at a bike shop can be worth it for the added protection and service.


Useful experience....

I laced my own Rohloff.

238mm spokes are an oddball size and not available everywhere or at just any bike shop for lacing up standard Mavic 26" rims for a mountain bike. However, my local bike shop could get them in a couple of weeks.

My times up a standard ride I do all the time involving a 3.9 mile climb and about 1850 vertical feet on my Garmin Edge 305 GPS with most of the climbing in gears 1 through 8 were about 12% longer. My best time on the Rohloff was 56:16, without missing any shifts on that climb. My best on the DT Swiss 440 Freeride hub was 50:05. Same rim, same tire, same tube. That's a 12 % loss in time. My gear box was practically brand new. It pedaled fine, it shifted lousy at times, to the point of being dangerous when it failed to shift. It was defective. The defect was masked by the original owner due to his riding style not requiring the use of the lower 7 gears. All my life, I've owned and driven manual gearboxes in cars. A gearbox that won't last 400 miles with me or any other rider that fails to shift, regardless of warranty time, is defective, from the factory. A defect, by default, which does not function as claimed, places all of the liablility on the manufacturer to repair and replace it, parts and labor. It's like the lemon laws for cars.

May I suggest you study some US business law, in particular "performance" and contract law, where by a product must deliver on all the claims it makes as to the products capabilities and function for a reasonable amount of usage or the life of the product. Rohloff claims and advertises that their gearboxes will go 50,000 miles or more with regular service. This one didn't make it 400 miles. No reference has been made that the 50,000 miles needs to be ridden in 2 years or less. Do you see the breach of contract in the performance clause now? Does the term "defects in material or workmanship" mean anything to you? The hub wasn't even worn in due to normal usage, let alone worn out.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

RandyBoy said:


> My times up a standard ride I do all the time involving a 3.9 mile climb and about 1850 vertical feet on my Garmin Edge 305 GPS with most of the climbing in gears 1 through 8 were about 12% longer. My best time on the Rohloff was 56:16, without missing any shifts on that climb. My best on the DT Swiss 440 Freeride hub was 50:05. Same rim, same tire, same tube. That's a 12 % loss in time.


Well there you go. I'm not sure where you were going with the spoke stuff and I guess you or your lawyer will have to sort out the legal stuff, but, hey, you gave us some useful information. I hope you can understand that I'm a little skeptical of the source, but I can accept your information as it is. The Rohloff was slower for you going up that hill.


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

Randy biatch, now you've taken on a mission to save the world from Rohloff, go away, no one values your point of view. You're like a jilted woman, you just don't know it's time to shut up and leave, you're not loved anymore.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

pursuiter said:


> Randy biatch, now you've taken on a mission to save the world from Rohloff, go away, no one values your point of view. You're like a jilted woman, you just don't know it's time to shut up and leave, you're not loved anymore.


The internet is a useful tool, however some to the tools on the internet are not useful. I'll not speak for others, only myself. I'll let the readers decide for themselves. All the traditional stuff like _caveat emptor_ and YMMV apply. Mine is up for sale, with a brand new gearbox.


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## swift (Apr 3, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> The internet is a useful tool, however some to the tools on the internet are not useful. I'll not speak for others, only myself. I'll let the readers decide for themselves. All the traditional stuff like _caveat emptor_ and YMMV apply. Mine is up for sale, with a brand new gearbox.


After all you've stated on yours, good luck selling it. I'll give you $20. :thumbsup:


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> All the traditional stuff like _caveat emptor_ and YMMV apply. Mine is up for sale, with a brand new gearbox.


Keep in mind with a new set of internals you are back in the 1% lottery...:eekster: and until that hub has a couple hundred miles on it you won't know if it needs adjustment. That won't be covered under warranty for the 3rd owner of the hub if you sell it...:nono:

If you want to be a good guy let 'em know that...:thumbsup: If not just sell it and they can take their chances...


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

Berkeley Mike said:


> ...my son is riding a Rolhoff and his team is working on the pave. He runs a 38:16 and says that at speed with a pack of the top riders he's spun out. And he tends to be a pretty high cadence rider.


I don't ride road, but that's the biggest compromise I see with the Speedhub, even on dirt.

I think most riders find that middle ground where they give up their lowest derailleur gear (or two), but still find that the highest gear leaves them something short of full throttle on flat pavement with the wind blowing from behind.

I second vikb's suggestions, even as big as 44T. That's what my first 29"er shipped with, and it flew like a rocketship with that gearing (too tall for me for steep climbing, unfortunately).


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*A bigger chainring*

is something I will talk to my mechanic about. I will also talk to my son about his need for a stump puller. He has such low end power he probably doesn't need it.


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## mdb1974 (Dec 12, 2007)

I am assuming that rohloff is the best option out there right now? Who are the closes competitors? Do they have the same problems? Are there any hubs with few speeds, say 7? It sounds like the reducer is generating some of the issues.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

mdb1974 said:


> I am assuming that rohloff is the best option out there right now? Who are the closes competitors? Do they have the same problems? Are there any hubs with few speeds, say 7? It sounds like the reducer is generating some of the issues.


Read up on the Shimano Alfine / Nexus red-band. They're getting decent marks.

Personally, I've got a Sram i-Motion 9 on a folder that is stealthy quiet and smooth, but it's heavier than the Shimano and many say that they prefer the Shimano's shifting.

No other hub measures up to Rohloff's durability and gear range, but with the Speedhub's price, compromising those two qualities is easy to justify!


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## mangoman (Oct 25, 2005)

Speedub.Nate said:


> I don't ride road, but that's the biggest compromise I see with the Speedhub, even on dirt.
> 
> I think most riders find that middle ground where they give up their lowest derailleur gear (or two), but still find that the highest gear leaves them something short of full throttle on flat pavement with the wind blowing from behind.
> 
> I second vikb's suggestions, even as big as 44T. That's what my first 29"er shipped with, and it flew like a rocketship with that gearing (too tall for me for steep climbing, unfortunately).


Running a 44T ring with my Speedhub, FWIW.


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## TunIn (Dec 17, 2008)

*Here TunIn*


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## prude (Nov 18, 2005)

I couldn't tell you the exact weight difference, but it sure ain't much. I'm sure Rohloff USA can convert your hub to bolt-on for a nominal fee if you already have the QR model. If you're looking at buying one, I would go with the bolt-on anyway; since it doesn't come with a tensioner, and you'll probably want to get the DH tensioner.


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

prude said:


> ...I'm sure Rohloff USA can convert your hub to bolt-on for a nominal fee if you already have the QR model...


Unless something has changed recently, this isn't a task Rohloff USA would be willing to perform. The whole hub would need to be torn down to get to the axle. Last conversation I had with 'em, the US guys will only perform a "gut swap," but won't actually tear apart the internals to perform any repairs or conversions. That kind of work was getting shipped back to Germany.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

Cool picture. So, did you do that yourself? Looks scary!


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## Speedub.Nate (Dec 31, 2003)

No, I lifted it from some adventureous Speedhub owner posting on another forum.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

Speedub.Nate said:


> No, I lifted it from some adventurous Speedhub owner posting on another forum.


Hmm ... so have any of these adventurers tried modifying the internals? My thought is to create an evenly spaced 9 speed without the grinding gear reducer and about a 15-20% step between gears. I'm sure this would require major modifications and may not even be possible. I'd be curious to know of any other significant modifications people have made.


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## TF2 (Feb 17, 2008)

*Rohloff on a dually*

I have been running a Rohloff:thumbsup: for 12 months know. It has done a bit over 3000km and I love it.
The added weight to my bike (Specialized Enduro 2007) was 515grams which is just over 1 pound.
The shifter I found to be no problem to get used to, although some would disagree.
Gone are the days of adjusting derailleur's and I dont mind that at all.


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## craig1964 (Mar 1, 2009)

*rohloff loveit*

I ride 29er with rohloff and a 26er with conventional dreiller, both hard tail. After 2 yrs rohloff bike is the only one I ever use. Its got quieter and smoother by the ride and it was from day one if compared with drlier slap etc. I think the reason is I ride hard core single track (cape town mts) and there is nothing to go wrong or fuss about. The muddy winters now present no drivechain issues. The 500g weight diff is comparable with carriing 1/2 a waterbottle less water,and leaving an apple behind. In the end its the bike one picks up evry time. My 3rd is a single speed, it has all the same low maintenence benefits but on that last 3 km switchback I scream for the rohloff.


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## richdirector (Apr 25, 2007)

*IGH for me*

I quickly looked at derailleur again now that you could set up a light 11 speed x 1 .... but 5 years of a rohloff and only 2 oil changes and two chains later I cant think how i would change. Sure there is a weight penalty but add 300 grams of mud to your gears and the missed changes that go with that then there is no better option. 
i love doing marathon enduro races where you see some chap trying to pull his derailleur out of his rear wheel.

i initially bought after i replaced my 3rd XT rear in 5 months - cutting it too close to rocks etc .......

I also have higher clearance as no big ring on the front .....

AND it looks Purdy like a fat bird


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## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

TF2 said:


> I have been running a Rohloff:thumbsup: for 12 months know. It has done a bit over 3000km and I love it.
> The added weight to my bike (Specialized Enduro 2007) was 515grams which is just over 1 pound.
> The shifter I found to be no problem to get used to, although some would disagree.
> Gone are the days of adjusting derailleur's and I dont mind that at all.


Wow, talk about this thread coming back from the dead. Anyway, seconding TF2's comment - it added about 1lb after I switched out all the components. I used to ride a der bike for the longest time, then got sick of adjusting the derailleur all the time and went SS, finally switching to Rohloff IGH on my new commuter bike.

Now, I still have der bikes, and for less beat-the-living-cr*p-out-of-it-every-day riding, I prefer derailleurs on those bikes. But not having to touch the shifting system other than to change the oil every 3000 mi makes it very attractive for the daily beater where I might only have time to service it once every few months, especially when I used to have to tweak them every 2 weeks or so.

Each has its own benefit. I mean, if it were clear cut, we wouldn't even have this thread.


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## bsdc (May 1, 2006)

hunter006 said:


> Wow, talk about this thread coming back from the dead.


Yes. Interesting resurrection. I'm still on my Rohloff ... a couple of frames later. It's still a love/hate thing. I get on a derailleur bike from time to time and enjoy the light, crisp shifting ... then I go on a ride with some friends and it's not uncommon to have to deal with their drivetrain issues. I think I'll always keep my Rohloff but the new 1x11 drivetrains interest me.


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## hunter006 (Jan 20, 2012)

I have to admit, after today I will say one thing is much easier on a derailleur system than the Rohloff: Getting the cog off with ease!! It took a breaker bar, 2 guys and a heat gun to get the damn cog off. I think it was installed without anti-seize 6 months ago.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

hunter006 said:


> I have to admit, after today I will say one thing is much easier on a derailleur system than the Rohloff: Getting the cog off with ease!! It took a breaker bar, 2 guys and a heat gun to get the damn cog off. I think it was installed without anti-seize 6 months ago.


I prepare my Rohloff cogs so it won't seize and they are still a ***** to get off because pedalling force is always working to tighten them.

That's one thing I would change if I could on this hub.

Happily it's not something I need to deal with too frequently.


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## Climbercraig66 (Oct 16, 2010)

I have found removing cogs to be a nightmare as well, even with anti-seize. A breaker bar on the chainwhip and a bench mounted vise should be listed as required tools in the manual! That, and the tip of securing the removal tool to the cog using a QR and washer..... I think I learned that from SpeedhubNate.


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