# Riding 4-5 days a week EMTB since 2019 & many regular mountain bikes since 1998



## JJK1 (Jul 7, 2015)

On a dusty desert trails and a Bulls bike now with a Shimano Steps E-8000 motor,Di derailleur, XT Shimano drivetrain.I am now totally convinced that regular/non ebike Shimano components are mostly incompatible or unsuitable with a setups like this Bulls Bike. Within 3 years, I am on my 3rd XT cassette/Second Steps motor/ 3rd set of tires/ 4 chains/ new rapid fire shifters and 83% on the battery. I have a particular bone with Shimano 11-46 XT cassettes, which wear down very quickly the high gears due to the higher speeds and torque.Shimano no longer sells separate cog kits as they used to.With a supply chain in shambles, I will think twice before jumping to buy another EMTB ever again.LoL!...and a Shimano phone agent accused me, that I ride too much on the high gears???!!!! Rather than taking my feedback very seriously and a note of the problems started telling me how big and awesome Shimano Company is?


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## celler (Oct 14, 2012)

I need to follow this. I don't have an eMTB but I am very curious if your experience is similar to others. My guess is with the power comes the wear. That does not explain the motor failures. How much do you ride per year?


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## 2xPneu (Jan 26, 2004)

Although it’s more of a niche category, I’ve been on a e-rig with a Rohloff hub which I got in 2016. No problems. Ever. Rohloffs can be retrofitted to a lot of bikes, including full sus. You’ll be able to ditch derailleurs and get a perfect chainline so less chain wear. I use belt drive on mine which is a HT. Costly but very nice. Shimano Alfine hubs are reputed to be pretty robust as well but not sure about one on an ebike. Motors are a different story, not knowledgeable about any of the motors used on most ebikes so can’t comment about that.


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## JJK1 (Jul 7, 2015)

2xPneu said:


> Although it’s more of a niche category, I’ve been on a e-rig with a Rohloff hub which I got in 2016. No problems. Ever. Rohloffs can be retrofitted to a lot of bikes, including full sus. You’ll be able to ditch derailleurs and get a perfect chainline so less chain wear. I use belt drive on mine which is a HT. Costly but very nice. Shimano Alfine hubs are reputed to be pretty robust as well but not sure about one on an ebike. Motors are a different story, not knowledgeable about any of the motors used on most ebikes so can’t comment about that.


Thanks. I will definitely look into it.I am getting sick of Shimano parts games and problems, bike shop service waiting lists and service/agent advisors.


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

I ride a Mondraker with EP8 almost daily with SRAM components and Assegai tires and it is no better. Ridiculously steep climbs, tons of rocks, jumps and I'm a clyde in excellent cardiac shape - thus I really pound the heck out of it. In the last 1000 miles, motor has had zero issues, 2 chains worn, 2 bent cassettes that i have pounded straight, 2 rear tires worn out to the point where they can't get up the steeps as well, 2 sets of brake pads, 1 twisted derauller that must have snagged on something. It's extremely expensive to ride this bike. All the components are a total joke for the torque and weight. It makes no sense to use regular bike components on these ebikes. I think the manufactures are putting whimpy undersized parts on ebikes and we should really consider adding 2-3 lbs for stronger cassettes, chains and brakes that actually last - what is the difference if my bike ways 50 lbs vs 52 lbs for a heavier drive train? I think this is the issue, they are just undersizing the components for the job. 

By the way when I called in a warranty for the bent SRAM cassette, I was asked the same question...how hard was I riding it in the second gear that bent - I should be able to ride as hard as I want all the time.


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## MikeTowpathTraveler (Aug 12, 2015)

Haibike Full FatSix. Yamaha PW system. Shimano XT front and rear derailleur. Full Speed Ahead front chain ring. Even being super attentive to lubing my chain (dry lube-DuPont Chain Saver) and keeping it clean, I wore the chain and front big chain ring out and replaced them at 11,000 miles. No problems at all with the Shimano derailleurs. I replaced the chain, front big chain ring and for good measure, I replaced the 11x36 rear cassette but I didn't really have to.

Doing your own work gives you the satisfaction of having the capability of relying on yourself and not some one else. Plenty of good Park Tools videos on youtube to show you everything you need to know.

That Shimano motor is no more powerful than my Yamaha PW. The motor that really tests the strength of mtb components are the Bafang Ultra motors, 750 watt beasts; not so much our 500watt motors. So you do have to ask yourself if your riding style is contributing to driveline components that are failing before their time. Now, Shimano motors have a reputation of failing out of the blue and that is another story for another time. 

Currently, there are over 17,200 miles on my FFS. Original motor, original 400wh battery still at 100% capacity, with 3 other 500wh batteries I collected over the past few summers for longer distance riding capability. Not one problem with the drive system since putting the bike into service, April 2017.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

If you’re running epower, then you gotta expect bicycle components to wear quicker, it’s a choice: get heavier duty components that weigh more or use less power.

Don’t blame the products for failing when used in applications that exceed their design parameters.


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

I agree its not fair to blame the components that is a good point - my similiar components last for ever on my non ebike. What about the bike manufacturers? I can only speak to my bike a Mondraker Dusk and they put the same chain and cassette on my bike as would be used on a non-ebike. I don't know much about other ebikes since this is my first one, maybe they are using special heavy duty drivetrains?


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## JJK1 (Jul 7, 2015)

Jipman said:


> I ride a Mondraker with EP8 almost daily with SRAM components and Assegai tires and it is no better. Ridiculously steep climbs, tons of rocks, jumps and I'm a clyde in excellent cardiac shape - thus I really pound the heck out of it. In the last 1000 miles, motor has had zero issues, 2 chains worn, 2 bent cassettes that i have pounded straight, 2 rear tires worn out to the point where they can't get up the steeps as well, 2 sets of brake pads, 1 twisted derauller that must have snagged on something. It's extremely expensive to ride this bike. All the components are a total joke for the torque and weight. It makes no sense to use regular bike components on these ebikes. I think the manufactures are putting whimpy undersized parts on ebikes and we should really consider adding 2-3 lbs for stronger cassettes, chains and brakes that actually last - what is the difference if my bike ways 50 lbs vs 52 lbs for a heavier drive train? I think this is the issue, they are just undersizing the components for the job.
> 
> By the way when I called in a warranty for the bent SRAM cassette, I was asked the same question...how hard was I riding it in the second gear that bent - I should be able to ride as hard as I want all the time.


Yep.First round was on Shimano, hands down, they did what they could.Then...Out of warranty !!!... well...you know....It gets you right into the money pit and the parts & fix it pandemic waiting game, if you don't have a second bike.We are gold mines for the industry.Soon as they see me at the local bike shops...."We are 14 days out man" .This is how it goes.


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## JJK1 (Jul 7, 2015)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you’re running epower, then you gotta expect bicycle components to wear quicker, it’s a choice: get heavier duty components that weigh more or use less power.
> 
> Don’t blame the products for failing when used in applications that exceed their design parameters.


As mentioned earlier, Ebike drivetrain and regular bike drivetrain should have components of its own pretty much.All high friction parts due to higher torque,weight and speed.
I would say for starters, the manufacturer should sell the cog kits at least for these cassettes and other Or how about on 11/12 speed cassettes, hardening the tips of the last 3 cogs of the high gears; 11,13,15 to prevent that gear skip over and fast replacement needs for the entire cassette.


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## Jipman (12 mo ago)

Yes they own us for sure. When we ride daily it becomes one of our most important activities in life and it gets the financial attention. Actually I am pretty sure my ebike saves me money in the end. I now ride 1.5 hours a day like clockwork instead of 1 big ride on a weekend because ebike makes it possible to ride my route before work so maybe I will have less heart disease in 20 years saving me on health costs. Also caused me to ride my motorcycles less because it is so much fun which is an even bigger money pit. So I can't complain about a 40 dollar chain stretching vs my adventure bike costs


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## JJK1 (Jul 7, 2015)

Jipman said:


> Yes they own us for sure. When we ride daily it becomes one of our most important activities in life and it gets the financial attention. Actually I am pretty sure my ebike saves me money in the end. I now ride 1.5 hours a day like clockwork instead of 1 big ride on a weekend because ebike makes it possible to ride my route before work so maybe I will have less heart disease in 20 years saving me on health costs. Also caused me to ride my motorcycles less because it is so much fun which is an even bigger money pit. So I can't complain about a 40 dollar chain stretching vs my adventure bike costs


Looking from above it is all good in the end.The Ebike rivers are about to become an ocean by itself.They are all tinkering around with the right materials,frames,components,motors synchronicity.There is a learning curve to everything, I guess?!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I get over 5000 miles of out my 11-36 cassette on my '19 Motobecane HAL eBoost E8000. Still on my second cassette with 10k miles on the odo.

The original 11 speed 11-46 cassette lasted until 2500 miles until it started skipping in the 11 and 13t cogs, since I was an ebike noob and often pedaled in these high gears from a full-stop. I bought an 11 and 13t replacement cog from the bike shop and managed to put in another 2500 miles on it.

Heck, the chainring is still the original that came on the bike. It is now only starting to creak under torque, because the chain is not meshed well with it due to a difference in "stretch". I am running it all down into the ground now, planning on replacing it all once it starts becoming annoying.

My issue with the emtb is corrosion. The contacts between the battery and lower battery mount have worn and corroded. It gives me a E020 error, followed by an E010 error. I have to pull the battery at least weekly now, to clean the contacts, to reduce the number of errors. The errors need to be fixed by turning it off, and turning it back on. It takes like 5 seconds, but that requires me to not put pressure on the pedals to not get a torque sensor fault (W013 error).


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## Kelly Parker (Mar 15, 2017)

Hello, currently the way ebikes are mostly configured with motor driving chain and gears is doomed. This is why the gearbox is really the only solution, or rear wheel drive. I’m fat, slow, and go through drive trains and chains to fast with no motor. Bigger cogs and chains only solution. Hope you have a lot of money even if you can find what you are looking for. It is a cycle with a motor. Just Ride.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

JJK1 said:


> On a dusty desert trails and a Bulls bike now with a Shimano Steps E-8000 motor,Di derailleur, XT Shimano drivetrain.I am now totally convinced that regular/non ebike Shimano components are mostly incompatible or unsuitable with a setups like this Bulls Bike. Within 3 years, I am on my 3rd XT cassette/Second Steps motor/ 3rd set of tires/ 4 chains/ new rapid fire shifters and 83% on the battery. I have a particular bone with Shimano 11-46 XT cassettes, which wear down very quickly the high gears due to the higher speeds and torque.Shimano no longer sells separate cog kits as they used to.With a supply chain in shambles, I will think twice before jumping to buy another EMTB ever again.LoL!...and a Shimano phone agent accused me, that I ride too much on the high gears???!!!! Rather than taking my feedback very seriously and a note of the problems started telling me how big and awesome Shimano Company is?


For now, you may need to ease off a little, especially when shifting etc. Rumor has it that Shimano Linkglide will solve your drivetrain durability issues . . .


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## quadzilla411 (Feb 25, 2015)

I am a experienced rider with decades of trail riding and before MTB many miles Moto trail riding. So got a EMTB two years ago. My bike is a Orbea Wild full XT and premium build. I think there needs to be a realization that if you get a EMTB and ride it on trails it will have similar wear and maintenance as a full on dirt motorcycle. Maybe more. So, tires wear more quickly and if you ride them on pavement more quickly. Brake pads last just a few months or less and if you run metalics, rotors wear out fast. Chains wear out fast as well as cassettes. I have had good luck with my wheels and hubs and still good after 2,500 and Fox Factory shocks same. So, be aware of this with the understanding that if you ride dirt hard and often you will have way more maintenance than any pedal MTB. And, if you get a lower end EMTB, the wear will happen faster. 

To compensate, be easy on your drive trail by not shifting under load and know that climbing in Turbo in higher gears puts huge strain on drive train and it will wear out sooner. Hard braking and fast stops eat brakes. Most importantly, learn how to wrench on your bike and have a inventory of spare parts as you will need them often if you ride a lot. IMO


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

$150 for a 12sp SLX cassette/chain every year seems reasonable to me, I would buy a gearbox emtb tho if I could ditch the rear der/cass


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The reason that chains wear out cogs is because individual teeth can't withstand pedaling load alone. They need other teeth to spread the load out with. The 11 and 13 are most susceptible, but chains "stretch" and exacerbate the issue.










I doubt the answer is to get a beefier cassette (linkglide) that resists deforming. I personally just stick to cheaper drivetrain parts, paying about $40 per cassette (SLX-level 10 spd 11-36), and trying to spread the wear out.

I don't understand the belief that damage is caused by shifting. Maybe I am gentle with my shifting since I shift often and early.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> The reason that chains wear out cogs is because individual teeth can't withstand pedaling load alone. They need other teeth to spread the load out with. The 11 and 13 are most susceptible, but chains "stretch" and exacerbate the issue.
> 
> View attachment 1986475
> 
> ...


'Shark Teeth' is what we used to call them - and skipping was so annoying that people came in to the shop get a new chain. When we said they needed new cassette too, they said they would try the chain first. I'll never forget the guy who went OTB in the parking lot with his new chain installed on 'shark teeth' - not funny because he got hurt.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Yep, chain skip under pedaling load happens when you combine a fresh chain with worn out cogs.

Better to just stick to the old chain and get a bit more money's worth out of the drivetrain, than to try and replace things individually.

There's no shark's teeth in the worn drivetrain above, but you can see how there's some slight "mushrooming" at the tips of the teeth. That's how wear shows up. On something like SRAM's Eagle chainrings, they sorta have a wear indicator built in. If the teeth starts to blend in with the curve of the upper part, it's worn.


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## TNC (Jan 21, 2004)

There have been a few industry rumors that ebike manufacturers are considering a robust 8-speed drivetrain developed for emtb use. On my SC Bullit with a Bafang BBSHD, I've just used the all steel cheaper Shimano and SRAM 9-speed cassettes and HG93 Shimano chain. I haven't had any issues, and this bike gets used for actual mountain biking under hard use in pedal-only mode.

I found the 11-50 cassette pretty much unusable even with the 42T Luna Eclipse chainring. Granted, the BBSHD is a more powerful motor than most factory ebikes, and the Bullit is running a 26" rear wheel with 27.5" front. I haven't needed anything lower than the 34T low gear on my cassette with a 26" rear wheel/tire. I've wondered if the 26" wheel puts less stress on the drivetrain, perhaps.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The 26" wheel is a lever itself, measured by the radius. Stick a bunch of levers around the pivot point, and you have a wheel. The bigger the wheel, the longer the lever. Each cog wheel is the same too.

32-34 gear combo, with a 175mm crank, will feel like an easier gear on a 26" bike than a 29" bike. It tops out at a lower top speed though. The 26 feels like it's running smaller chainring. It's a similar case with shortening cranks--it feels like the chainring size increases by 2t for every 10mm that the crank length gets shortened by.

I feel that due to the lack of flywheel effect, the 26 loses traction a lot easier and is far worse in low-traction technical sections. I always feel that a heavier tire is better on 26 as a result (not necessarily slower rolling). I didn't even mind running heavy tubes, as the general reliability of the tire's performance improved.


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