# Carb questions



## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Ok, I'm trying hard to watch what I eat as much as possible, and have a few questions about carbs. In regards to glucose/fructose/sucrose, I get where they each come from, but which is best in regards to performance? I've read on here avoid fructose like the plague, but does that mean don't eat strawberries ? Also, in preparation for a race, I carb load on grains the day before, then eat mostly sugar and some grains the morning of. Does this sound right?

Sorry, this is coming from a former fat kid who lived off refined grains, burgers, and donuts till a year ago.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

ryguy135 said:


> Ok, I'm trying hard to watch what I eat as much as possible, and have a few questions about carbs. In regards to glucose/fructose/sucrose, I get where they each come from, but which is best in regards to performance? I've read on here avoid fructose like the plague, but does that mean don't eat strawberries ? Also, in preparation for a race, I carb load on grains the day before, then eat mostly sugar and some grains the morning of. Does this sound right?
> 
> Sorry, this is coming from a former fat kid who lived off refined grains, burgers, and donuts till a year ago.


Eat real food...don't eat packaged or processed food...

So strawberrys are fine (stay within your calorie limit.

Gatorade, pop, soda,coke, not so good...

Carb load with pasta, the day before.....stay away from refined sugars period....

Okay a can of cold coke..in the middle of a 160 k ride is probably okay if your stomach can handle it.


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## miss rides a lot (Jul 23, 2008)

jeffscott said:


> Eat real food...don't eat packaged or processed food...
> 
> Carb load with pasta, the day before.....stay away from refined sugars period....
> 
> Okay a can of cold coke..in the middle of a 160 k ride is probably okay if your stomach can handle it.


Exactly. wrt to pasta/carb loading... I'm not sure it's all that necessary, especially if you eat grains/wheat/gluten and processed carbs like pasta somewhat regularly. I don't, but I do typically have 1/2-1 serving (1/4cup dry) quinoa or sometimes brown rice medley 2 nights before a race, sometimes before the race, but I don't generally over-do it on night before carbs.

I've found that with races on Sunday typically anyway I'm riding 2-3 hours on Saturday and taking in more carbs in the form of drink mix, sometimes fruit leathers or Bloks or similar and then 1/2 serving of recovery drink that I don't need to do too much with dinner!


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## Bioteknik (Jun 27, 2007)

people who say avoid fructose are totally missing the context of a study which was done on rats.


biggest point is to know when to use moderation.. You don't need 2 lbs of pasta the night before a race, and you wont' get a fatty liver if you drink a few sodas here and there


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## jrastories (Aug 2, 2008)

Carb Loading in one night I don't think can be done, I have had better luck doing this over a few days, eating a large variety of carbs, grains, pastas, rice, fats. I did this before my last 8 hour race and it seemed to work out very well for me.

I remember in my nutrition classes from university that my teacher was the biggest fan of variety in a diet. Two foods which have the same make up of macro nutrients in them will probably not have the same micro nutrients in them so the end result is a difference in how and where the macro nutrients are absorbed and utilized. So the more diverse your diet is the more you will get out of it.

As far as sugars go I agree with *Bioteknik* and that most people have misunderstood the studies done on why sugar is bad, Yes it is bad for the sedentary overweight person but has it's place for athleats and other healthy active people.


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## Crosstown Stew (Aug 16, 2008)

I don't know much about the sugar questions but for carbs, I try and stay at about 60-65% of my diet carbs/ 15% proteins/ 20% fats (unsaturated). I drink water, milk, coffee usually and before big rides/ races eat authentic Chinese food with chicken and vegs or pasta with meat sauce and plenty of vegs. I don't overeat but eat 4-6 times a day and a lot of peanut butter and banana samaches along the way, especially post ride. And try spreading your carb intake and hydration out over 2-3 days prior to the race instead of 24hr prior.


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## RoyBell (May 25, 2010)

Good thread. I have been cutting carbs for the last couple of weeks. I have noticed a slight drop in energy...but I have shed 10 lbs of fat! It seems really hard to balance carbs when you need them for riding and such. I love bread and sweets so this has been very difficult for me. Probably not the best but I will tend to eat pizza before a ride so it can act as my cheat day as well as carb loading....well, sorta lol.


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## Hostilemonk (Feb 9, 2011)

Go to a SPORTS dietician and take a 'full blood picture' with you (analysis of a blood sample, especially the level of Ferritin in the blood). Give him/her your riding/training/racing schedule so they know what you are doing. It may cost a little (but may be recoverable if you have health insurance). They will give you some examples of what to eat and when, and maybe some recipes (my dietician report was 6 pages long). Re the grains before a race - depends on how your guts process them, if it leaves indigested food and fibre in the gut you may be carrying extra weight in the event. Don't ovelook liquid protein and carbs in the hydration drink.


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

Lurker here, figures I would chime in on this one.

Carbs are incredibly important for athletics in general but like any food quality is important. Ditch the pasta and grains and chow down on fruit! All of it is loaded with carbs, micro nutrients, electrolytes and fiber. Friuit is really easy on the system too so riding shortly after isn't a big problem. Bananas make a pretty good cheap source but as long as it's raw feel free to eat unlimited amounts. I usually pack a few Larabars for my rides.

That being said, on race day if the little gel packets are a quick convenient during a race for a pick up, go for it. I just wouldn't recommend popping then daily.

As for low Carb diets - they're low micro nutrition diets. Eat more fruit and veggies, less other things. You'll feel better and be healthier.


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> As for low Carb diets - they're low micro nutrition diets. Eat more fruit and veggies, less other things. You'll feel better and be healthier.


Why do you think a low carb diet is a low micro nutrition diet?


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

TopGear said:


> Why do you think a low carb diet is a low micro nutrition diet?


Besides fruits and veggies (predominantly carbs) where else are you getting your vitamins, minerals, fiber, and electrolytes? (Yes, nuts do have them too and are also great to eat.) Its like the gels, only completely natural


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Nadwin said:


> Is it a healthy option to take low carb diet while biking, actually I am new in biking and have
> not much information about the diet.Please help me.............


Depends?

The main thing is, if you are new to biking, you are getting exercise/activity. That is good.:thumbsup: I hate to think of all those who embrace any diet without including exercise.

Low-carb dieting is not "no-carb" dieting as many misinterpret. It's striking a balance of carbohydrate, protein and fat that allows you to initially lose weight, and then maintain your weight once the weight loss has been attained. Again - exercise is a must with any diet if losing weight is your goal. Plenty to read on the internet about all matters related to lower carbohydrate diets.

Just as there are different balances of the amount of daily carbohydrates/proteins/fats that one eats, so too are there different balances of the amount of fuel an athlete in cycling needs. Are you riding 2-6 hours per day? 1-2 hours per day? 30 - 50 minutes per day? 1 hour three times a week? And what type of riding within your weekly time on the bike are you doing? Zone 1/2/3/4/5/6? If you are racing (this being the XC racing and training for the racing forum), how long are your races and how frequently do you race? Are your races 1 hour in length? 1 1/2 hours? 2 hours? Longer? Some durations barely even approach your glycogen stores. Not so for marathon runners, endurance cyclists, etc... . But you didn't mention your durations.

So your question actually raises more questions before an answer could be best served to address it. In the meantime, is a lower carbohydrate balance healthy while cycling? Depends on how low the balance is and how much you cycle. I adjusted my balance while cycling and dropped from 212 to 180 in a very healthy manner (that was 6 years ago) and have kept the weight right in the 177-185 range ever since. I raced that entire season I lost the 32 pounds (XC Cat 2 races which have pretty short durations well under 2 hours) - and I did it while being careful to take a full 10 months to shed the 32 pounds (which was a bit less than one pound per week on average which was really only about a 100 calorie deficit per day). The types of distances I was training and the average length/time of races were not exactly the type anyone needs to load up on a higher balance of carbohydrates. Again, it was a lower-carbohydrate approach, not a "no-carb" approach. And much has been written about exercise and the carbohydrate/protein/fat balance in the past few years. Not all athletic endeavors require the same balance. And not all athletes require the same balance.

It's good to hear you are exercising. Weight loss requires a calorie deficit, no matter what the balance of carbohydrate/protein/fat you are consuming happens to be.

[email protected]

Off for a 57.5 mile ride on RAGBRAI day 5 today. Yes - I'll be consuming some carbs....


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## ryguy135 (Sep 24, 2010)

Generally, if you're pushing 70%+ of your max heart rate, you're consuming more carbs than fat for fuel. Below that, it tends to be more fat than carbs. So, if you're riding hard, you NEED carbs for fuel, or you'll just absolutely drag. However, if you're doing more base training (zone 1/2), your primary fuel is fat. Low carb diets work by forcing your body to consume fat for fuel due to lack of carbs. However, for an athlete training hard in zone 3-6 several times a week, the lack of carbs will be detrimental to performance. Hence, carb loading before races and consuming sugary foods and drinks during hard rides/races.


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> Besides fruits and veggies (predominantly carbs) where else are you getting your vitamins, minerals, fiber, and electrolytes? (Yes, nuts do have them too and are also great to eat.) Its like the gels, only completely natural


Meat just by itself contains significantly greater amounts of vitamins and minerals than fruits and vegetables.


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

ryguy135 said:


> Generally, if you're pushing 70%+ of your max heart rate, you're consuming more carbs than fat for fuel. Below that, it tends to be more fat than carbs. So, if you're riding hard, you NEED carbs for fuel, or you'll just absolutely drag. However, if you're doing more base training (zone 1/2), your primary fuel is fat. Low carb diets work by forcing your body to consume fat for fuel due to lack of carbs. However, for an athlete training hard in zone 3-6 several times a week, the lack of carbs will be detrimental to performance. Hence, carb loading before races and consuming sugary foods and drinks during hard rides/races.


Low carb diets work by lowering the amount of insulin in the bloodstream, which then allows the body to use fat. If you have a high carb diet, your insulin level will be too high which will prevent your body from using fat for fuel.

I have had a similar experience when trying to ride hard on a low carb diet, you need them to ride fast. Paleo for athletes is a good read, but the author does have a bias against saturated fats, which are actually very healthy for you.


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## chilly79 (Jul 27, 2010)

Nadwin said:


> Is it a healthy option to take low carb diet while biking, actually I am new in biking and have
> not much information about the diet.Please help me.............


I ride at least 5 days a week for an hour or more at a time and have been eating about 15 to 25 carbs a day for about 6 months. The first week your body has to adjust to the new diet. Working out could be bad since your blood sugar is not stable yet. Once that is good I was fine to ride. I did not have the energy I had when eating carbs but that has all equaled out now. Now when I ride I never "bonk" as I did before. This is where you don't feel good and need food to get better. Even if I am hungry it does not make me sick. If you lose enough weight though you might start having trouble. I took it slow at first to be sure the diet did not hurt me while riding. Be sure the carbs you eat in a day are all good green veggies. Also take a multivitamin and be sure to have salt in your food. The diet gets flushes salt form your system and you will need that on the trail.


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

TopGear said:


> Meat just by itself contains significantly greater amounts of vitamins and minerals than fruits and vegetables.


If this were true, most Americans would not be overweight and long term disease would not be so prevalent in America. You get some protein, iron, a bit of B and a few other things, but nothing compared to the nutritional content of green vegetables, berries, bananas, etc. The funny thing about B vitamins is most Americans get enough from 1-2 servings of meat, yet there's a large deficiency problem.

There's sort of a large absence of electrolytes and fiber in meat as well, which can be found in pretty much any fruit or veggie. When was the last time any major health outlet recommended less fruit and veggies and more meat? The majority of the meat in the US is absolute garbage, and honestly should be avoided unless you're buying from a farmer you can ask how the animal was raised.

Search google for list of most nutritionally dense foods, and meat doesn't rank close to plants.



TopGear said:


> Low carb diets work by lowering the amount of insulin in the bloodstream, which then allows the body to use fat. If you have a high carb diet, your insulin level will be too high which will prevent your body from using fat for fuel.
> 
> I have had a similar experience when trying to ride hard on a low carb diet, you need them to ride fast. Paleo for athletes is a good read, but the author does have a bias against saturated fats, which are actually very healthy for you.


Also, not completely true. High processed carbs will have a negative effect on your body, just like processed protein and fats. Raw fruit and veggies on the other hand is incredibly good for you, and do not spike your blood sugar in an unhealthy way. One can test this pretty easily - wake up in the morning and eat 3 or 4 bananas. Are you bouncing off the wall? You've just had 100g+ of sugar. Try it with table sugar the next morning and see how you feel. I would have given myself diabetes by now if fruit sugar affected the body the same way as processed sugar, as I've eaten a good 500g+ of sugar from assorted fruit per day for over a year, but rather my 2 blood tests have come back as perfect for cholesterol, triglycerides and blood sugar levels. While this is only my personal account, imagine if I drank 15 cans of soda/ day. I would not be biking 

If you really want to eat healthy, follow this: Fruits/veggies - unlimited and as much as you can, raw seeds and nuts as desired, meat - from a farmers market, ask the farmer what the animal ate and if hormones were used, in moderation. I pass on the meat and do just fine, it's your choice.

BUT, to the original poster - Carbs are fine as long as they're from fresh raw fruits / veggies! They're actually better than fine, they're awesome! This sport demands it, and you can basically "carbo load" every day without negative effect, and rely less on packets of powder or tablets  Eat more of those, and less of carbs from other sources and you'll kick some ass and feel better in general.


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> If this were true, most Americans would not be overweight and long term disease would not be so prevalent in America.


Are you claiming that most Americans eat a diet that's high in animal protein and fat? That's laughable. The diet is mostly processed carbs, moderate protein, low fat. That is the diet that leads to obesity and disease. High fat, moderate protein, low carb, that is a health and weight restoring diet.



moosington said:


> Search google for list of most nutritionally dense foods, and meat doesn't rank close to plants.


Yes, it does. Meats, fish, eggs beat plants across the board.

As part of my diet I am trying to get the carbs for riding from fruit, I agree with you on that. The body needs protein, so you may be ok for a few years as a vegetarian, but it will cause problems later. The body needs fat for proper manufacturing of hormones and absorption of vitamins among other things. Soy protein breaks down to estrogen, so that should be avoided completely, and all vegetable oils should be eliminated entirely. They are directly to blame for many health problems.


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

TopGear said:


> Yes, it does. Meats, fish, eggs beat plants across the board.
> 
> As part of my diet I am trying to get the carbs for riding from fruit, I agree with you on that. The body needs protein, so you may be ok for a few years as a vegetarian, but it will cause problems later. The body needs fat for proper manufacturing of hormones and absorption of vitamins among other things. Soy protein breaks down to estrogen, so that should be avoided completely, and all vegetable oils should be eliminated entirely. They are directly to blame for many health problems.


Leafy Greens beat all other sources of food for nutritional density. Fruits come in 2nd. Once again - no electrolytes, no fiber, and also no antioxidants, no C, E, K, A (other than liver), magnesium, potassium. Iron and zinc are the only thing it seems to win at, but is also attainable from raw nuts and seeds pretty easily. Not only that, but cooking meat (or anything) destroys the nutrition in it as well. Meat wins on b-12, but only because of the bacteria on the meat. I take a supplement for it (shoot me ). Not sure where meat wins there, man.

Also, I don't regularly eat soy (or beans in general), and the only oil I use is occasionally cold pressed sunflower seed oil for cooking. My die is 85%+ raw fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds; feels great. I ate strictly Paleo for 2 years prior to this and it didn't do much for me. It's a good change for most people because it advocates cleaner eat and better food quality, but it falls short because it recommends limiting fruits for the unfounded reason you brought up earlier. They do not spike your blood sugar. Vegetarians usually fail because they keep eating garbage, just not garbage from meat. I'm not doggin' on people for eating meat, just eating _most_ meat is pretty terrible for you (Food Inc is a good watch for anyone interested.)

There's a reason why people carb load before long rides and not protein or fat load - we need them for energy.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

moosington said:


> There's a reason why people carb load before long rides and not protein or fat load - we need them for energy.


I guess the key being "long rides".

Not every ride needs carb loading - especially when training for mountain bike racing. There are usually several short duration, high intensity rides in my week where glyocgen stores barely get used up. For the sake of discussion, I'll throw out the time frame of 90 minutes or less for myself where I don't worry about carb loading. And 90% of XC races I do are less than 90 minutes as well. It all depends on what Category a racer is in and the durations they are training and racing. Some only train a grand total of 4-6 hours per week. Some train 6-8 hours, some 8-10 and some 10+. Some race for 60 minutes. Some for 70. Some for 90. Some for 120. And some for 120+. They are not all created equal with regard to fueling, glycogen stores, fatigue and recovery.

And the question of filling the glycogen stores and on the bike fueling hasn't even been asked or addressed for longer durations.

I just would like to add the parameters to the discussion that everyone is addressing. One man's long ride, may be another's short or medium length ride. One man's finishing race time for his category may be another's first lap. It makes sense that the fueling requirements are different - at least in terms of the duration and amount of fuel required.


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## Bioteknik (Jun 27, 2007)

well.. all I've got to say about this thread is don't believe everything you've read on the internet...


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> There's a reason why people carb load before long rides and not protein or fat load - we need them for energy.


Protein and fat provide more than enough energy for most people. The carbs are needed for additional calories for athletes who exercise frequently.


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

Bioteknik said:


> well.. all I've got to say about this thread is don't believe everything you've read on the internet...


Don't believe everything your doctor tells you either, or the USDA with their backwards food pyramid, or the american heart association that tells you that cocoa puffs are a heart healthy food, etc. Do your own research.


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## godsang (May 24, 2010)

I tried a carbo load work out, followed by eating an impossible amount of carbs for the entire day. Then I raced the next day. I saw no discernible difference in my performance. 

I now try to eat more carbs than normal for 2 days preceding a race. 

Also, I tried a large helping of quinoa instead of my normal white pasta and felt like I raced a lot longer before I needed to start using gel packs mid-race. I will always be eating quinoa pre-race now.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

moosington said:


> My die is 85%+ raw fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds; feels great.


Where do you get your essential amino acids for muscle maintenance and recovery? How many grams of protein do you get a day?


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

TopGear said:


> Protein and fat provide more than enough energy for most people. The carbs are needed for additional calories for athletes who exercise frequently.


That is just not true. Carbs convert to glucose far easier than fat and protein, and should be our go to food for energy. This is why gel packs work so well and riders don't pop whey protein or something along those lines on the trails. What type of carbs you eat, on the other hand, can be the difference between diabetes and healthy living. Quality is important in all food.



beanbag said:


> Where do you get your essential amino acids for muscle maintenance and recovery? How many grams of protein do you get a day?


Last time I plugged my average daily intake into fitday, I was coming out around 40-50g+ depending on how many nuts I eat during the day. Eating enough calories generally means enough protein.



godsang said:


> Also, I tried a large helping of quinoa instead of my normal white pasta and felt like I raced a lot longer before I needed to start using gel packs mid-race. I will always be eating quinoa pre-race now.


That's a good switch. I don't get why so many athletes load up on white pasta  Pretty much garbage for your body lol.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

moosington said:


> That's a good switch. I don't get why so many athletes load up on white pasta  Pretty much garbage for your body lol.


Exactly - avoid white carbs. Unless, of course, you're in Italy on vacation and they are making the pasta by hand from scratch. Worth breaking the rules on that one....:thumbsup:


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## Bioteknik (Jun 27, 2007)

actually white pasta is awesome, if you actually have the calorie requirements.. but this is a racing forum, not a weight loss forum.


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Bioteknik said:


> actually white pasta is awesome, if you actually have the calorie requirements.. but this is a racing forum, not a weight loss forum.


Well, then the debate gets into simple vs. complex carbohydrates. Pasta made with white flour is a simple carbohydrate. That may or may not meet one's ideal fueling needs for racing when compared to what is available in the complex carbohydrate family of foods.


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> That is just not true. Carbs convert to glucose far easier than fat and protein, and should be our go to food for energy.


For most people who are overweight or do little or no exercise? Sorry, no. Those people need no carbs or very little. Carbs are basically needed for exercise only. Walking or sitting around at a computer, the body can supply calories needed for that easily from protein and fat.

But you are right, carbs do convert to glucose far easier, which is why so many people with high carb diets are overweight. It also increases your insulin which stops your body from using stored fat. Then you get started on the blood sugar rollercoaster and feel like you're starving every 3 hours because each meal spikes your blood sugar, then sends it plummeting and your body can't use fat to normalize blood sugar because the insulin level is too high.


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## Whambat (Jul 30, 2006)

godsang said:


> Also, I tried a large helping of quinoa instead of my normal white pasta and felt like I raced a lot longer before I needed to start using gel packs mid-race. I will always be eating quinoa pre-race now.


Even when you are feeling like you don't need them, from most studies I've seen, you want to start with the supplemental calories from the start of the race. Early calories in, reduces the speed at which you deplete your muscle glycogen, giving you better endurance later on. Once your glycogen is depleted, it's impossible to play catch up.


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

TopGear said:


> For most people who are overweight or do little or no exercise? Sorry, no. Those people need no carbs or very little. Carbs are basically needed for exercise only. Walking or sitting around at a computer, the body can supply calories needed for that easily from protein and fat.
> 
> But you are right, carbs do convert to glucose far easier, which is why so many people with high carb diets are overweight. It also increases your insulin which stops your body from using stored fat. Then you get started on the blood sugar rollercoaster and feel like you're starving every 3 hours because each meal spikes your blood sugar, then sends it plummeting and your body can't use fat to normalize blood sugar because the insulin level is too high.


Read previous posts. This is true of many carbs. The point I am making is for fruit, where it is not true. Don't believe me? Try it yourself. Make your first meal of the day (blood sugar at its lowest) a smoothie purely out of fresh or frozen fruit / water. It's pretty easy to make it 150 or 200g of carbs from fruit sugar with bananas. Are you bouncing off the walls? Crashing an hour later? No, meaning your blood sugar is not wildly fluctuation like you propose. Try again the next day with 4 or 5 cans of Sprite for breakfast. Not all carbs cause obesity like your statement proposes. Fruit absorbs very quickly and comes packed full of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fiber and is a great anti inflammatory. For all of these reasons (and why Paleo falls short in limiting fruit) fruit should ideally be the staple in a diet, not meat as you say.

Obesity is not caused by carbs. It's caused by a lot of shitty carbs, meat from sickly animals, and processed foods. The same can probably be said for most long term disease.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

moosington said:


> Read previous posts. This is true of many carbs. The point I am making is for fruit, where it is not true. Don't believe me? Try it yourself. Make your first meal of the day (blood sugar at its lowest) a smoothie purely out of fresh or frozen fruit / water. It's pretty easy to make it 150 or 200g of carbs from fruit sugar with bananas. Are you bouncing off the walls? Crashing an hour later? No, meaning your blood sugar is not wildly fluctuation like you propose. Try again the next day with 4 or 5 cans of Sprite for breakfast. Not all carbs cause obesity like your statement proposes. Fruit absorbs very quickly and comes packed full of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fiber and is a great anti inflammatory. For all of these reasons (and why Paleo falls short in limiting fruit) fruit should ideally be the staple in a diet, not meat as you say.
> 
> Obesity is not caused by carbs. It's caused by a lot of shitty carbs, meat from sickly animals, and processed foods. The same can probably be said for most long term disease.


I have the same observations about fruit vs other carbs, but do you have an explanation for why?


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> For all of these reasons (and why Paleo falls short in limiting fruit) fruit should ideally be the staple in a diet, not meat as you say.
> 
> Obesity is not caused by carbs. It's caused by a lot of shitty carbs, meat from sickly animals, and processed foods. The same can probably be said for most long term disease.


Paleo is simply eating foods that we have evolved eating: meat, fruit, vegetables, nuts. I agree with you that fruit produces much less of a blood sugar high than bread and cereal. The fiber it contains is important. So some fruit is fine for most people, probably not so much for those that are insulin resistant. People get easily misled though and also think that things like fruit juice or foods that just contain fruit are good for you.

But why limit meat provided that the quality is high enough?


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## moosington (Jul 15, 2011)

smilinsteve said:


> I have the same observations about fruit vs other carbs, but do you have an explanation for why?





TopGear said:


> Paleo is simply eating foods that we have evolved eating: meat, fruit, vegetables, nuts. I agree with you that fruit produces much less of a blood sugar high than bread and cereal. The fiber it contains is important. So some fruit is fine for most people, probably not so much for those that are insulin resistant. People get easily misled though and also think that things like fruit juice or foods that just contain fruit are good for you.
> 
> But why limit meat provided that the quality is high enough?


To answer both of your questions with the same quote:



moosington said:


> Fruit absorbs very quickly and comes packed full of vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, fiber and is a great anti inflammatory.


Also, most juice has been over processed and sitting on the shelves way too long to have a reasonable micro nutritional content. If you like juice, I _highly_ recommend a juicer. Well worth it


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## TopGear (Jun 11, 2009)

moosington said:


> To answer both of your questions with the same quote:
> 
> Also, most juice has been over processed and sitting on the shelves way too long to have a reasonable micro nutritional content. If you like juice, I _highly_ recommend a juicer. Well worth it


But what's the problem with meat?


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

smilinsteve said:


> I have the same observations about fruit vs other carbs, but do you have an explanation for why?


I am not a nutritionist, but my guess is that fruit is packed with fiber which slows down the absorption of the sugars and because a large amount of the sugar is fructose, which has a low glycemic index. Did you ever watch the video "sugar: the bitter truth?" The guy sez that fructose is a toxin, but it's somehow ok if you get it in fruit form. 

IMHO, fruit has a lot of the benefits that moose said, but I wouldn't eat it to the point that it starts to displace other micro and macro nutrient sources like vegetables and meat.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

TopGear said:


> But what's the problem with meat?


Meat is a somewhat contentious topic even among the paleo folks. Some say don't eat cow because it is insufficiently pre-historic. Some say don't eat chicken because it has too much omega 6. I think salmon is universally considered ok, except if it has too much mercury, but then again, if it also has enough selenium to balance it out...


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## Dscarbs (Feb 1, 2004)

Good thread. Paleo works wonders. Sweet Potatoes for your pre and post workout carbs rocks.


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## pattongb (Jun 5, 2011)

Just want to add my 2 cents.

I was extremely overweight before I took up MB'ing. Ive since lost 60 pounds and am healthier than ive been in a very long time.

I switched my diet from one heavy in carbs (breads, cereal, pasta) to one 70% Protein/ 20% Carb/10% Fat and the weight just flew off. The only time I eat high portions of carbs is right before a training run (load up on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, rye bread of course) and right before race day. Otherwise my diet is primarily Protein with carbs as an addition to the meal (baked potato with my chicken breast/ rye bread with my ham sandwich). 

I did notice a fatigue issue while training as my body adjusted to the lower carb amounts in my body, however that left after a week or two and now I have no problems with fatigue as long as I eat a few PB+J sandwiches an hour before my ride. 

Due to the low intake of carbs my blood sugars have normalized and I have a lot less mood swings and i am rarely hungry. I basically have to force myself to eat, which is a welcome change for a guy who spent years walking around ready to eat anything within a few feet of him.

All our body types are different so what works for me will not work for everyone, but I did want to add my 2 cents about the benefits of a low carb diet.

Thanks!


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## Dscarbs (Feb 1, 2004)

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## wmodavis (Jun 21, 2007)

Read Wheat Belly.


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