# Mips, real deal or yet to be proven gimmick?



## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

I was wondering people think about mips equipped helmets, half lids especially. There probably isn't enough data from real world crashes yet to make any solid conclusions.

I think alot of what's known so far is probably anecdotal and speculative. Having said that, I'll contribute my experience from a crash with a mips helmet in which I got a concussion. I was using a Smith Overtake with mips and their koroid material, had a slow speed crash on a xc ride and hit my head. The hard she'll cracked and some of the koroid looked like it compressed. Maybe I would have been in worse shape without mips, who knows? I spoke with a nuerologist who feels all the helmets are the same. I've also read some reports that say that your scalp basically does the same thing as mips.

For my next helmet I'm not sure if I should get a mips helmet or try the Leatt DBX or Kali interceptor both of which use different technologies to help prevent brain trauma. 

This has probably been discussed before but share your thoughts anyway.

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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

5 weeks ago I crashed on my head/shoulder first at 34mph. I landed with enough force on my head/shoulder to break my scapula. I was wearing a Fox rampage pro carbon w/mips. I'm not sure if the mips helped but I had no concussion and never lost consciousness. I replaced that helmet with a 100% Aircraft w/MIPS as well just because I got a pro deal on it.


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## Lone Rager (Dec 13, 2013)

I'm not convinced MIPs does anything beyond what helmet without it does sliding on the surface or rotating on the head.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I understand the skepticism and agree somewhat. So many variables when you do take a crack on the brain bucket, but if reduces strain on the brain even slightly then its done its job I think. 

Its that sharp leading edge I don't like, just happy the SB covers it.


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## Rone Turner (Mar 25, 2007)

Street Doctor, how do you like the Aircraft? Size fit like most helmets? Need another DH helmet. Had a cheap Bell that worked, but like the looks of the Aircraft. Hard to justify the expensive helmet I will only use once or twice a year. I need to go to parks more often. 

Crashed a switchblade, with mips. Dented both sides pretty good. Didn't even ring my bell. I think mips helped. All my helmets will have it until something else comes out. It can't hurt. Got $100 off a crash replacement.


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

Rone Turner said:


> Street Doctor, how do you like the Aircraft? Size fit like most helmets? Need another DH helmet. Had a cheap Bell that worked, but like the looks of the Aircraft. Hard to justify the expensive helmet I will only use once or twice a year. I need to go to parks more often.
> 
> Crashed a switchblade, with mips. Dented both sides pretty good. Didn't even ring my bell. I think mips helped. All my helmets will have it until something else comes out. It can't hurt. Got $100 off a crash replacement.


I'm a medium in Fox but a large with 100% (my usual size). If Fox helmets fit you I'd say the aircraft will as well. I bought mine without trying it on and just measured my head. I think it's comparable in quality to the Fox rampage pro carbon as well. Smith googles fit fine too.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*More of the same...*

http://forums.mtbr.com/apparel-protection/mips-reusable-worth-1047978.html


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

Bottom line is there is no definitive test that documents any safety improvement (i.e. Snell) as Moto helmets have. 
Any improvements are anecdotal at best and hype at worst until some independent way to test their effectiveness is developed and samples tested by all the helmets mfgs.
There is a new football helmet that is showing huge promise for these low speed impacts and uses an entirely different approach to isolating brain impacts. We'll see as this is the 1st year they will be used in NFL and NCAA competition. The helmets use a softer outer shell and a pretty significant viscoelastic liner that is much more active than any system I've seen before including the 6D,MIPS and Leatt systems. 
No matter where this goes I can guarantee 2 things. They will weigh more and cost much more. 
FYI- A 6D (latest tech) Moto Helmet is approx. $800. These VICIS Football Helmets are $1,500 ea and won't tell me what they weigh, which means probably much more.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Helmets are FAKE NEWS*

Get with the program people.


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## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

Having said that, what do you think of the Kali Interceptor? Is the material they use similar to this viscoelastic liner you mention?

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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Cleared2land said:


> Get with the program people.
> 
> View attachment 1151309


You stole my hat

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## DethWshBkr (Nov 25, 2010)

chasejj said:


> ...6D (latest tech) Moto Helmet...


I am 100% convinced the 6D tech is TRULY an incredible helmet. I wish I could afford one!

MIPS, I dunno. I think the MIPS needs to be a high speed, very shallow crash to be effective. If you are sliding along the ground, yes, MIPS can help. For slower speed, direct impacts, I personally don't think the MIPS is a help, and on our little helmets, perhaps a detriment, at the helmet can slip and slide around the head more, which means it is NOT staying in place!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Picard said:


> You stole my hat


Nope...i just copied from you.

Re-post from that other thread...

If I can afford a premium helmet along with the added expense of MIPS, then I'm fine with that. Even assuming that I will prolly never encounter a crash that falls into that 1% window (assumed) where MIPS would do it's marketed job, and save my brain, I'm on-board.


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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

dmo said:


> Having said that, what do you think of the Kali Interceptor? Is the material they use similar to this viscoelastic liner you mention?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


The only bike helmet that even resembles the VICIS idea or 6D Moto is in fact the 6D bike helmet. It's the pnly one that uses 2 shells isolated with viscoeleastic dampers that I'm aware. Putting the rubber iso directly next to your skull isn't gonna get it done IMO. 
I use a Bell Super myself. But if I was gonna spend my money on a new helmet it would be a 6D right now.


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## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

chasejj said:


> The only bike helmet that even resembles the VICIS idea or 6D Moto is in fact the 6D bike helmet. It's the pnly one that uses 2 shells isolated with viscoeleastic dampers that I'm aware. Putting the rubber iso directly next to your skull isn't gonna get it done IMO.
> I use a Bell Super myself. But if I was gonna spend my money on a new helmet it would be a 6D right now.


Interesting....i looked at one of the 6D helmets. I have a big head, 58-59cm around, and the 6D made my head look huge. I felt like I was going to topple over. Maybe I'll look at it again...

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## chasejj (Sep 22, 2008)

dmo said:


> Interesting....i looked at one of the 6D helmets. I have a big head, 58-59cm around, and the 6D made my head look huge. I felt like I was going to topple over. Maybe I'll look at it again...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk


 Nobody said they were small. You want safety or petite good looks? Decisions, decisions.


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## dmo (Apr 21, 2006)

chasejj said:


> Nobody said they were small. You want safety or petite good looks? Decisions, decisions.


I know....i just look like that little alien guy who used to be on the Flinstones. I just need to add some antennae to the top of the helmet

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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

I just hope some twat doesn't legislate MIPS, double skinned boof head helmets as mandatory!!!
MIPS has been a very good marketing strategy, and very little else. At least the prices have dropped.
I certainly don't want a lid that is any bigger, heavier or hotter on my head because the liner reduces ventilation.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MozFat said:


> I just hope some twat doesn't legislate MIPS, double skinned boof head helmets as mandatory!!!
> MIPS has been a very good marketing strategy, and very little else. At least the prices have dropped.
> I certainly don't want a lid that is any bigger, heavier or hotter on my head because the liner reduces ventilation.


The liner is about .5mm thick and probably weighs about 10 grams or so. The shell on my mips helmet is the exact same size as the non-mips version. Does not seem to run any hotter than any other helmet I've owned.

They will never be mandatory. Don't want it? Don't buy it.


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

As long as it fits well I'll wear it. What I read was the MIPS lids run hot because of the liner. We ride all summer here in 35-40+°C, lots of air is good


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## Streetdoctor (Oct 14, 2011)

MozFat said:


> As long as it fits well I'll wear it. What I read was the MIPS lids run hot because of the liner. We ride all summer here in 35-40+°C, lots of air is good


never noticed a difference...


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## MozFat (Dec 16, 2016)

Streetdoctor said:


> never noticed a difference...


Ok, good stuff. I'm still not convinced enough to go out of my way to buy one, unless it suits when I'm buying (normally have a limited choice)


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

MozFat said:


> As long as it fits well I'll wear it. What I read was the MIPS lids run hot because of the liner. We ride all summer here in 35-40+°C, lots of air is good





Streetdoctor said:


> never noticed a difference...


Mine is a thin plastic liner that is the same dimensions as the padding. It does nothing to obstruct the airflow. Fake news there


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## GeePhroh (Jan 13, 2004)

Here's an interesting article from Bicycling back in 2013, with some background on MIPS (a new technology at that time).

One of the takeaways is that innovation in bike helmet safety had been hampered -- at least in the US -- by the standards regimes like CPSC. From the article:



> "Helmet companies had been programmed only to pass U.S. or EU certification," Niklas Steenberg, CEO of MIPS, told me. (The European Union has a helmet standard that is slightly different than the U.S. version.) "We'd created a situation where good protection was available
> but no one gave a damn about it because you didn't need it to pass certification."


Consumer demands are different now with growing awareness of CTE; but the CPSC and others haven't made any significant changes to the certification standards in decades. The Snell B-95 standard, considered one of the most rigorous for bike helmets, was last updated in 1998.

For more background, check out the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute.


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Lone Rager said:


> I'm not convinced MIPs does anything beyond what helmet without it does sliding on the surface or rotating on the head.


That's where I am.


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## Lemonaid (May 13, 2013)

99.99% gimmick. Will reduce impact force by .0001%... there you have it.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Lemonaid said:


> 99.99% gimmick. Will reduce impact force by .0001%... there you have it.


Where did you get the idea that MIPS reduces the impact force? Did you just make that up?


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

Cleared2land said:


> Where did you get the idea that MIPS reduces the impact force? Did you just make that up?


Sarcasm button - ON

NNnnno. That's a real quote from the MIPS science tests, done by scientist.

Sarcasm button - OFF


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm glad that you included the sarcasm buttons. My faith in you Mr Pig remains unwavering.


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

Look into Kali helmets. Their LDL tech is superior to mips. Mips is essentially a cheap shell that can rotate against the inside of a helmet. LDL is raises rubber points that contort and conform when they meet the head in a rotational impact, but also compress which takes out some of the impact energy.

They also do a thing called nanotech which is essentially differing density pyramid structures in the helmet shell that interlock. In an impact these compress and collapse taking out a lot of the energy and dispersing it sideways away from the skull (as opposed to EPS foam which will break/shatter at a sufficient blow).


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## Mr Pig (Jun 25, 2008)

ButtersNZ said:


> Look into Kali helmets. Their LDL tech is superior to mips.


Sounds interesting. My Smith helmet has a layer of 'drinking straws' inside of the foam designed to crush more easily and reduce deceleration. I think these kinds of measures are a lot more important than MIPS.


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## ButtersNZ (Jan 15, 2014)

For sure - when I was deciding on my last helmet I got right into the technical banter about mips and Smith's system looks a lot better than mips. I think with Smith or Kali you're getting an amazing product either way. I went with the Kali Interceptor

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/kali-interceptor-review-helmet-2018.html


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## tims5377 (Oct 20, 2010)

The theory behind MIPS makes sense to me. Without any standard testing, we are all following blindly. I have been out of the trail lid market for a bit, but when I bought my POC Traebec Race MIPS, it was a leader in technology. So far i havent had any big crashes. A few glancing ones off of overhanging trees and I felt the helmet rotate slightly on my head which seemed effective. Just bought a POC Cortex Flow for when I feel like getting rowdy.

Helmets are one area where I won't cut costs. You only get one brain.


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## morton.tj (Feb 26, 2013)

tims5377 said:


> . . .
> 
> Helmets are one area where I won't cut costs. You only get one brain.


I've been told I have two brains and that I primarily think with the brain in my small head. Just what I've been told . . .


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

I've never put much thought into helmets (and never even owned one until my recent jump into riding more than flat-dirt trails.) As such, MIPS seemed to be the latest thing when I was shopping a few months back. 

I ended up with a Giro Montaro MIPS and while I don't have any non-MIPS helmet to compare to, I can say that it's been no issue in the Phoenix heat. Been riding all summer with temps just a hair shy of 120f without any perceived heat issues from the helmet. Last night's ride was 108 degrees and it felt downright breezy and nice =)


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Thoreau said:


> Been riding all summer with temps just a hair shy of 120f without any perceived heat issues from the helmet. Last night's ride was 108 degrees and it felt downright breezy and nice =)


That is crazy hot! 120F!? youll find me soaking in water somewhere.!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thoreau said:


> Been riding all summer with temps just a hair shy of 120f without any perceived heat issues from the helmet. Last night's ride was 108 degrees and it felt downright breezy and nice =)


Your brain has cooked and you just don't know it.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Got a MIPS helmet for cheap...it's a Bell Stoker that was on sale for $52. I figured I can hardly find a decent non-MIPS for that price...might as well grab it and even if it only offers a slight increase in protection, it's something. The helmet is pretty comfy and during a warm 3+ hour ride this past Sunday there were no heat issues that I noticed. Sweat issues yeah, but not too hot. I just need to get a Sweat Buster for it now.


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