# High quality liner shorts



## rochrunner (9 mo ago)

I really like my Zoic Ether shorts, but the liner shorts that came with them were thin and sacked out after a while. I replaced them with some Louis Garneau liners, which were better but still nowhere near the chamois that comes in premium regular bike shorts. And for various reasons I need some extra padding.

Anyone have a suggestion for really good liner shorts? I did manage to find these Assos TRAIL liners, which look really nice but of course if it's Assos it's $$$. Still, I could justify that if there's nothing out there similar.

Admin edit: Add photo for feature


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

I really like the Rapha Trail Bib.

Men's MTB Trail Liner Bib Shorts | Rapha


----------



## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Genuine road chamois shorts work great as liners and IME there's no comparison in quality -- the road chamois shorts are far superior to the liners that come stock with baggies.
Typical road shorts have much better chamois padding. Expect to pay for the difference. Personally I find the cost difference worthwhile over the long run.
=sParty


----------



## andy f (Jan 13, 2004)

rochrunner said:


> I really like my Zoic Ether shorts, but the liner shorts that came with them were thin and sacked out after a while. I replaced them with some Louis Garneau liners, which were better but still nowhere near the chamois that comes in premium regular bike shorts. And for various reasons I need some extra padding.
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion for really good liner shorts? I did manage to find these Assos TRAIL liners, which look really nice but of course if it's Assos it's $$$. Still, I could justify that if there's nothing out there similar.


The Assos trail liners feel thick, like I'm wearing a diaper when I'm off the bike but they're comfortable while riding. Overall, I prefer my B3NTH North Shore liners. The Assos material and cut with the B3NTH pad and "pouch" would be ideal.


----------



## andy f (Jan 13, 2004)

Sparticus said:


> Genuine road chamois shorts work great as liners and IME there's no comparison in quality -- the road chamois shorts are far superior to the liners that come stock with baggies.
> Typical road shorts have much better chamois padding. Expect to pay for the difference. Personally I find the cost difference worthwhile over the long run.
> =sParty


Dedicated liners can have the seams on the outside and can use lighter, more breathable (and potentially very revealing) materials.


----------



## CLDSDL43 (Sep 15, 2021)

I've been liking the fox liners and the pads.


----------



## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm due for new liners. Prefer non bib. Brands?


----------



## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Aero Tech designs. Good as anything out there, much less expensive than the big boys, made in the USA.


----------



## rochrunner (9 mo ago)

Sparticus said:


> Genuine road chamois shorts work great as liners and IME there's no comparison in quality -- the road chamois shorts are far superior to the liners that come stock with baggies.
> Typical road shorts have much better chamois padding. Expect to pay for the difference. Personally I find the cost difference worthwhile over the long run.
> =sParty


I have mostly roadie experience and have some great road shorts and bibs. I tried wearing a pair under outer baggies and they were just really hot in the summer. Depending on the type of ride, I'll sometimes just wear my road kit.



andy f said:


> The Assos trail liners feel thick, like I'm wearing a diaper when I'm off the bike but they're comfortable while riding. Overall, I prefer my B3NTH North Shore liners. The Assos material and cut with the B3NTH pad and "pouch" would be ideal.


Those look really nice and I'll give them a try, although at 75yo I'm less concerned with my "boys" these days .I'll give them a try and then decide if I want a 2nd pair or if I should try the Assos's. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Mountainfrog (Mar 7, 2006)

BadgerOne said:


> Aero Tech designs. Good as anything out there, much less expensive than the big boys, made in the USA.


I'm liking the prices and designs. Thank you!


----------



## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

rochrunner said:


> I have mostly roadie experience and have some great road shorts and bibs. I tried wearing a pair under outer baggies and they were just really hot in the summer. Depending on the type of ride, I'll sometimes just wear my road kit.


Roadie first as well. I wear baggies with the PI Cargo Bib Liners. They're very comfortable and way cooler than wearing road bibs underneath.









Men's Cargo Bib Liner short


Many experienced riders have opted for the comfort of road bibs under shell shorts for years. They prefer the feel of a bib, but Road shorts are not made to be covered with a durable shell short, and the combination can be warmer than ideal. Enter our Cargo Bib Liner short, which not only...




www.pearlizumi.com


----------



## SlipperyToad (Aug 18, 2010)

The Patagonia liner shorts are a nice liner - not too bulky and they hold up well over time. If you can find them in one of their end of the season sales, you can get them pretty reasonably too.


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

I've been happy with the BN3TH liners. But I haven't tried a lot of different brands. They have been WAY better than the liners that came with my Fox shorts.


----------



## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

andy f said:


> The Assos trail liners feel thick, like I'm wearing a diaper when I'm off the bike but they're comfortable while riding. Overall, I prefer my B3NTH North Shore liners. The Assos material and cut with the B3NTH pad and "pouch" would be ideal.


If I had any gripes about the Assos, that'd be the one. but as stated, they definitely do their job well when on the bike. Not a big issue for me since I don't tend to go anywhere but home before/after most rides.

a very close 2nd for me are the sqlab liners. very thin and comfy on the bike. 

not too distant in 3rd would be the liners that TLD includes with their shorts.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

SWAT bib liners.


----------



## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I like Pearl Izumi Select liners. They fit well, hold up well, and have a decent chamois. At $50/pair they're even a decent value. Men's SELECT Liner short


----------



## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

^^^ Second vote for Pearlizumi. I've used them for years good comfort & value and they have mesh fabric to keep crotch rot away.


----------



## Schril (Oct 28, 2010)

I recently tried the Ketl mtb bibs and like them very much. The pad is minimal, but good. Novel idea, the pad doesn't extend up at the front where it's not needed. There are two pockets at the rear that are easily accessed. Another bib is the Voler trail bib. Added bonus is that they are made in USA.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

nezium game changer 2.0 for mellower rides and g form for the rowdy ones


----------



## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

One more vote for the Pearl Izumi Select liners. All the Pearl Izumi stuff I've owned have been well-thought-out and executed, and this one has so far been no exception to that works-great experience.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

the pearl izumi liners that come in their shorts imo have way too much padding. as in too much surface area in the cock zone, thickness is good. i just cut a pair out and they now live in the dump. i'm guessing the selects are different


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

fishwrinkle said:


> the pearl izumi liners that come in their shorts imo have way too much padding. as in too much surface area, thickness is good. i just cut a pair out and they now live in the dump. i'm guessing the selects are different


I really used to love PI chamois... but not so much the past couple pairs I've tried. I prefer a more structured chamois, and they've all become just.. sponge.

I'll see how the Bn3th ones are...


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah i just looked at the selects and the padding looks the same. maybe if i had a fishwrinkle the extra pad wouldn't bother me. the nifty pocket on the leg and maybe better fabric, but i don't see any comfort gains. who uses liner pockets anyhow? just awkward. now the reverse pockets, on some of their shorts are pure genius.


----------



## dirtyjack (Jan 22, 2010)

I've had good luck with Baleaf on Amazon. I was concerned they would be too bulky but they're very comfortable on all-day epics and I don't need to use chamois butter.


----------



## burbskate (May 23, 2012)

BN3TH is where it's at. I'm slowing getting rid of all my other brands and replacing them with BN3TH ..









CHAMOIS


The North Shore Chamois




www.bn3th.com


----------



## LVLBTY (Jul 15, 2020)

I have Club Ride chamois, rode for 4 days out in Moab with them. Zero issues, very comfy, a little butt butter to keep things lubed helped too.


----------



## older'nslower (Feb 28, 2009)

Depends. For those times you realize your "send it" is going to come up a bit short.


----------



## jwpeltier (Nov 5, 2004)

rochrunner said:


> I really like my Zoic Ether shorts, but the liner shorts that came with them were thin and sacked out after a while. I replaced them with some Louis Garneau liners, which were better but still nowhere near the chamois that comes in premium regular bike shorts. And for various reasons I need some extra padding.
> 
> Anyone have a suggestion for really good liner shorts? I did manage to find these Assos TRAIL liners, which look really nice but of course if it's Assos it's $$$. Still, I could justify that if there's nothing out there similar.
> 
> ...


I ride all kind of shorts including Ether and Black Markets from Zoic. Their Zoic Orange-trimmed (Premium) liners and Green-trimmed (Carbon) liners are excellent. Need to upgrade a bit above what comes standard with the shorts.


----------



## phorest (Jul 29, 2009)

fishwrinkle said:


> nezium game changer 2.0 for mellower rides and g form for the rowdy ones


Nezium liner - sooo comfy. _Highly_ recommended.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

just pulled the trigger on a pair of bn3th. also if you have an id.me you get 15% off.


----------



## andy f (Jan 13, 2004)

For those ordering bn3th liners, they run large. I have a 32 waist and wear a small NS chamois.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

oh fer fvck sake! i wish all the manufactures would make the waist the same sizes and just tailor the cut. have several PI shorts and ordered the same size and sent them back today. well i'm a 36 and bn3th lg states 34-36. here's to hoping


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, since I followed their sizing chart, and they don't do returns.. It'll be a single purchase item and never again.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

they don't return sale items, but they have a return link. the fit guide wouldn't open for me


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

fishwrinkle said:


> they don't return sale items, but they have a return link. the fit guide wouldn't open for me


Sweet, I missed that. Yea, I'm talking about the lame waist size measurement range. The fit guide link is broken.

We'll see, I'm cautiously optimistic.


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Sizing is a universal issue across all types of clothing. It is called vanity sizing and it is just as prevalent for men as it is for women. If you wear a "34" waist (as I do) in most brands, your waist is likely to be an inch or two larger in actual measurement. 

For what it is worth, I don't have an issue with BN3TH sizing. As stated, I am a "34" waist and their medium (32-34) fits me fine. I use the NS chamois and used to only wear their underwear, all the way back to when the brand was My Package.


----------



## fishwrinkle (Jul 11, 2012)

yeah i get the whole vanity bs, but when the same company (pearl izumi) has discrepancies within then i have issues. the cut shouldn't effect the waist sizing.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

This is the lameness.










Having to mouse over to get the size range, it's just crap UX.


----------



## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

dysfunction said:


> This is the lameness.
> 
> View attachment 1981298
> 
> ...


at least they have a functional online presence. try getting that out of the oft-glorified lbs =)


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Thoreau said:


> at least they have a functional online presence. try getting that out of the oft-glorified lbs =)


I can go try them on there.


----------



## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

dysfunction said:


> I can go try them on there.


shops around here never have anything decent. save for one roadie oriented shop. got some ultra luxe bibs to hide under normal shorts once. 

other than that, all the locals around me carry are specialized, bontrager, and the cheap fox liners that come with the shorts. 

really wish some of the better brands in this thread had more retail presence, but the direct to consumer model makes for greater margins. =(


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Thoreau said:


> really wish some of the better brands in this thread had more retail presence, but the direct to consumer model makes for greater margins. =(


and less service. There's really no denying that fact.

I build, and wrench on, my own bikes... so I really don't need an LBS, but they sure are nice to touch things. (you know, back when there was a supply chain)


----------



## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

How come they don't make 54t cogs?


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

dysfunction said:


> and less service. There's really no denying that fact.


I wouldn't call that a rule. 

For garments, Rapha has excellent customer service that I would argue is better than anything a LBS or LBS brand offers; Free returns, no question asked return policies even on worn clothing, discounts if you need a new size jersey for losing weight, actually useful repair kits come with the gear, and you can send them in for free repairs even for crash damage.

Want to try it on? 

No problem. Order up what you want, in multiple sizes if you want and return what you don't want with zero out of pocket to you for whatever you return.


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

FrankS29 said:


> For garments, Rapha has excellent customer service that I would argue is better than anything a LBS or LBS brand offers; Free returns, no question asked return policies even on worn clothing, discounts if you need a new size jersey for losing weight, actually useful repair kits come with the gear, and you can send them in for free repairs even for crash damage.


So, what you're saying is that Rapha is size shaming by not providing the same discount for people who need to size up. 🤔


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

rton20s said:


> So, what you're saying is that Rapha is size shaming by not providing the same discount for people who need to size up. 🤔


Well, we are _still_ talking about a cycling company. 

You can't expect complete anarchy!


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

FrankS29 said:


> I wouldn't call that a rule.
> 
> For garments, Rapha has excellent customer service that I would argue is better than anything a LBS or LBS brand offers; Free returns, no question asked return policies even on worn clothing, discounts if you need a new size jersey for losing weight, actually useful repair kits come with the gear, and you can send them in for free repairs even for crash damage.
> 
> ...


You get the same service from a computer monitor than a human? You have shitty humans 

or, you prefer to deal with machines.


----------



## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

dysfunction said:


> You get the same service from a computer monitor than a human? You have shitty humans
> 
> or, you prefer to deal with machines.


I've never bought a single item from Rapha, but I did get an espresso from them at Sea Otter. So... their service was great, but I can't see myself buying their clothes. 😁 

On the other hand, my LBS was also there and they made me dinner at their camp site.


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

dysfunction said:


> You get the same service from a computer monitor than a human? You have shitty humans
> 
> or, you prefer to deal with machines.


I'm not sure I follow your logic here. 

Even if I order online, there are still humans at that company filling my order, handling customer service and making the very customer friendly policies that I really like about them. 

It's not like Rapha, PNW, DVO and many other companies that I've ordered from many, many times only online are just machines. Actually, at most them I've spoken to the humans that make them run and have had great experiences with those humans through a computer screen, or over the phone.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Sure, just like any other catalog. You're clearly the person who uses the self-checkout line. I'm clearly not.


----------



## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

dysfunction said:


> Sure, just like any other catalog. You're clearly the person who uses the self-checkout line. I'm clearly not.


🤣

I actually hate self checkout lines in stores!

I have no problem supporting local and brick and mortar, but I also know it’s certainly not out of the question that online based vendors can and do have excellent customer service that can easily match or exceed LBS service.

I’m thankful for that as my local shops suck, big time.

Yet, if I’m in a good shop, I have no problem doing my part to support them.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Basically, in a good shop, I can get feedback on things.. sometimes before I even ask. The paradigm is just inherently different. They can't notice you trying to find a price, or a part, or whatever it is while standing there. It's just a limitation of the exchange. I'm OK with online ordering, but I accept it as the same as ordering from a catalog 30 years ago.

The old adage was "you can get a steak anywhere, what you're paying for is the service" is still true.


----------



## woodshed48 (Jun 26, 2009)

I have loved my Zoic Ether shorts, and they shorts don't wear out. But before you give up on the Zoic liners, look at their line-up. When my liners began to sag (btw, nice way to put that), I opted to replace with the Ultra liners, which is about 2 steps up $$ wise. They have held up much longer, and have better cushioning. I think that Zoic has at least 4 levels of liners.


----------



## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Thank you to everyone who recommended the BN3TH North Shore Liners. I just got mine and they feel amazing. This is everything that I wanted from a liner. I'm considering some of their regular underpants too because the pouch is real nice.


----------



## johnniewalker (Mar 22, 2016)

I’ve been using bib liners exclusively for the last several years. I like being able to carry a water bottle in one of the pockets in my back. There are a ton more options now designed as liners with lighter weight materials. 

I’ve been tempted to buy high end road or gravel type bibs just for the chamois but have been worried about being too hot. 

I’ve used the Patagonia bib liners, pearl izumi carbo bibs liner, cuore cross functional bib liner, and I’ve just ordered the new castelli bib liners. 

I’ve have hundreds of rides in each pair. I’m really interested to see how the castelli pair is since they use their top of the line road chamois in it. I’m also tempted to try the Rapha bib liners which use a quality road chamois but I’m not sure the pockets will hold a water bottle. 

I like the overall fit of the Patagonia cargo bib liners best. Although, they have sort of stretched a bit and my water bottle can fall out of the pocket. I suppose I could return them with the iron glad guarantee but they’re like 5 years old. 

The pearl Izumi pair is great and in my option one of the best options for the money (with the exception of cuore on sale) but the legs are a little tight on my thighs. 

Cuore has the best chamois and best pockets out of them all but not enough space/stretch in the front for my bits. There’s a zipper pocket which is great for a car key or wallet so you don’t need to worry about it falling out. These are my go to for the last 4 years or so just because of the chamois and pockets which hold the water bottle securely. I bought two pairs. They’re currently on sale for $55 (I think I paid $110-130) so $55 is pretty much unbeatable. They make super high quality stuff. 

I’ve bought the Rapha trail t shirt, 3/4 length shirt, and trail shorts last year and they’re excellent. Extremely comfortable, cool, fast drying. Good fit. Really good materials. Reminds me of lululemon athletic apparel in terms of fit and finish which is excellent. Rapha gets flack for being bougie and overpriced but the trail shirts and shorts are really good. My experience makes me want to try their bib liners. They’re about the same price as similar gear from Troy lee with a more understate style I like. 

I have not used the Ketl, Assos, specialized, endura, zoic, giordana, POC, giro, garneau, or 7 mesh options. 









Men's Cargo Bib Liner short


Many experienced riders have opted for the comfort of road bibs under shell shorts for years. They prefer the feel of a bib, but Road shorts are not made to be covered with a durable shell short, and the combination can be warmer than ideal. Enter our Cargo Bib Liner short, which not only...




www.pearlizumi.com













Men Cross Functional Liner Bib Short (Camo green)


The bib liner that does it all, made to fit under your trail, gravel, or any other loose fit kit. This is our version of the Swiss Army Knife.



shop.cuore.ch













Patagonia Men's Dirt Roamer Mountain Bike Liner Bibs - 9"


The Patagonia Men's Dirt Roamer Mountain Bike Liner Bibs are MTB-specific bibs with airy stretch fabric, on- body storage and a premium chamois pad.




www.patagonia.com










 Bibs & Shorts Cycling Men UNLIMITED ULTIMATE LINER - Castelli Cycling


Made to be the ultimate liner under your baggy shorts. Featuring the supremely comfortable Progetto X2 Air seamless pad in the coolest minimalist short, with three pockets on the back.




www.castelli-cycling.com










Men's MTB Trail Liner Bib Shorts | Rapha


Rapha's MTB Bib Shorts, a lightweight & breathable pair of liner bib shorts with rear storage pockets, to be worn underneath our MTB Trail Shorts. Shop now.




www.rapha.cc


----------



## bcriverjunky (Jul 8, 2014)

Craft Tri Shorts. Or any triathlon shorts. They have a thin pad and is much more comfortable than the bulky bike shorts


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Tri-shorts/bibs with a proper thin chamois, not just a towelling pad.
Excellent for single speeding where you're standing more.


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

DeSoto are my favorite bibs.

With that said, I ordered another pair of the Bn3th shorts... But a size down as I'm close to the cusp, so we'll see which are more comfy.

Could also be just being used to the compression of the DeSoto bibs.


----------



## rochrunner (9 mo ago)

andy f said:


> Overall, I prefer my B3NTH North Shore liners. The Assos material and cut with the B3NTH pad and "pouch" would be ideal.


That turned out to be a good recommendation. I was skeptical at first about that chamois that looks like it's "cut off" right behind the pouch, but the pouch really works to get stuff out of the way and I never had that feeling of something being squished by the front of the seat. The main part of the chamois is well padded and helps spread out the load. I'll probably order another pair.


----------



## johnniewalker (Mar 22, 2016)

johnniewalker said:


> I’ve been using bib liners exclusively for the last several years. I like being able to carry a water bottle in one of the pockets in my back. There are a ton more options now designed as liners with lighter weight materials.
> 
> I’ve been tempted to buy high end road or gravel type bibs just for the chamois but have been worried about being too hot.
> 
> ...


Just a follow up on this. The castelli bib liners had too much compression around the hips and below the waste. The thighs were quite tight as well. Pockets seemed too small for a water bottle to fit reliably - similar to Rapha. 
The Rapha chamois is the best I’ve used. Castelli seemed very good too but I returned the shorts because the fit didn’t work for me. 
I like the cuore pockets better because a water bottle doesn’t fit well in the Rapha pockets. Fine for more mellow trails but can fall out on jumps and drops. Hopefully Rapha updates their rear pockets giving them the best of both worlds.


----------



## dietz31684 (Mar 30, 2010)

Pear Izumi select on sale for $37 with free shipping directly from them. Originally $50. I grabbed a pair to try.


----------



## Al Fong (Oct 20, 2021)

Started riding 11 months ago and got a pair of Alpinestars Bionic Pro Shorts to cut down on all the hip bruising. Very satisfied with the protection for my hips, legs and tailbone, and they still look like new after a lot falling and machine washing. The chamois helped but I would still get some discomfort after an hour or so. My brother said he rides with 2 chamois so I added a regular chamois liner under the Bionics and no more pain. Yes, thicker, but all I notice is the comfort on 3 hr rides. Have tried liners that came with shorts from Spesh and Ally MTB (Amazon) and Pearl Izumi's liner with Levitate chamois. The Spesh and Levitates are my fav and feel the same. The Levitates are expensive but I got them during a sale. The Ally liner is thicker and bulkier to wear, but feel no better and the seating area barely covers the saddle at the rear. Try 2 chamois if one doesn't do it. I honestly don't notice the bulk during riding, but can get warm, for me, when the temps are above mid 60s. Btw, I am older and ride an emtb, so I probably sit and spin, to use the motor, more than if without a motor.


----------

