# New Lupine Tesla ---700 Lumens---



## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

*Found this over on the Lupine Forum.*

_Our brand new Tesla light will provide about 700 Lumens at 12W.
It is a single LED light, with an integrated switch, several dimmlevels and a low battery LED indicator. We are using a custom reflector, developed and made by Lupine, for a maximum of light on any terrain. The light will be available as a headlight version, called Tesla X and as a bikelight version called Tesla 4. All the sets will come with a Li-Ion battery, automatic charger and a Lupine transport softcase.
The retail price will be around 350€._


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

looks pretty cool


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

I guess my 800 lm 4 LED Wilma is already obsolete:madman:  
Maybe technology is going too fast


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

BBW said:


> I guess my 800 lm 4 LED Wilma is already obsolete:madman:
> Maybe technology is going too fast


*mmm...
yep, here's some pictures of the new 925 Lumen Wilma*


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Nice reflector, 350euro's is like £300 UK, $600 USD 1/2 the price of Lupines normal offerings.

I guess it's a P7 with a realistic light actually going forward Lumen rating


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

$600 USD would be a lot, but it sure looks like a nice light!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

The Wilma is £500 area I think over here so $1000, so it's alot cheaper than that.

It's still alot for whats basically a P7 torch + good battery + good reflector though, I'd prefer to have 10 P7's strapped around my bike


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## All Mountain (Dec 9, 2005)

Cool! The switch on the back is excellent. Any weight figure?



PUBCRAWL said:


> *mmm...
> yep, here's some pictures of the new 925 Lumen Wilma*


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## Jim311 (Feb 7, 2006)

Cool, but I'll never be able to justify spending that much coin. This is sort of like going to a Ferrari dealership.


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## langen (May 21, 2005)

Really looking forward to seeing beamshots of the Tesla vs Betty and Wilma. Not only amount of light but shape of the beam also.


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## Zipcom (Aug 15, 2007)

Here the "2008 Beam comparison - Preview" from the Lupine Forum.

Nighmare 25W Halogen









Tesla 12W LED









Wilma 17W LED (NEW)









Betty 23W LED









Stefan at Lupine wrote:
We will release the full beam comparison with our new website. The preview pictures show the full brightness only and keep in mind it is only a comparison and we do not claim these pictures show the real life impression ... allthough it's close to it

Just a quick note on the marks. 
1. Toy dog: 7 m
2. Tree mark: 14 m
3. Tree mark: 26 m
4. Tree mark: 48 m
5. Bike: 65 m


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

23W looks kicks ass, good range and everything impressive, 1 hell of a battery draw though.

12Watt looks comparable to my P7 with a Cree R2 running.

The step up from 17W to 23W looks too much though, much bigger difference than the 12w - 17W for a lesser percentage. ( maybe more Spot LED's come into play though )


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

LOVIN' IT! Great job Stefan!!!


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Funnily the Tesla's beam looks a lot like the Dinotte 600L:
1. it is wide (wider than the Wilma)
2. it is bluish
The most notable difference is a lovely accentuated spot area in the middle, which the Dinotte unfortunately does not have.
Looks especially promising as a single bar-only solution, and for a reasonable price (compared to the other Lupines...).
Can't wait to see what the others have - L&M at least... is 700 = 700 in lumens? ;-)


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Note the tesla is bluer than the betty or wilma... I don't think the P7 is available in warmer tints. 
Interesting pics. Note the relatively small gains from doubling the watts. 700lm is a good level for most things, especially if you have one on bar and another on helmet, goodbye multi led lights.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

radirpok said:


> Funnily the Tesla's beam looks a lot like the Dinotte 600L:
> 1. it is wide (wider than the Wilma)
> 2. it is bluish
> The most notable difference is a lovely accentuated spot area in the middle, which the Dinotte unfortunately does not have.
> ...


...about #2...yes, the P-7 led is a little bluish but it is not too noticeable except on the lower power levels. Unlike you I don't see anything that looks like an _accentuated spot_. All of these lights look very much like 25 degree beam patterns too me. Of course with the Betty's and Wilma's I'm sure you get a choice of optics. No doubt the 23watt lights throw for more distance simply because of the additional lumen output and tighter optics these models offer. It would be interesting to know what optics were used on the Betty and Wilma when they did the test. Just remember that all that distance throw you see in the photos is on a light colored stone surfaced road. This _long throw_ doesn't always translate over when you start riding on trails that are darker surfaced. The Lupine stuff looks real nice and would look nice on the bars but I'm not sure I like the helmet mounting solutions they choose. I would prefer a much more cleaner looking quick-release system for the helmet.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

holy smokes. Betty is one bad mamma jamma.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Turveyd said:


> The step up from 17W to 23W looks too much though, much bigger difference than the 12w - 17W for a lesser percentage. ( maybe more Spot LED's come into play though )


I have the 22 watt Betty and the 15 watt Wilma and I can tell you with those two lights that the Betty does have quite a bit more reach as well as a wider beam and the difference is very noticeable. Also as the pics show the path in front of the bikes is lit up significantly brighter with the Betty which is exactly the experience I have had with my Betty compared to the Wilma. So the pics showing the Betty looking considerably brighter don't surprise me.

Thanks for posting the pics and also I would love to see the Tesla light head alongside the Wilma light head to get and idea of the sizes.


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

some more pics. Lupine say "it's one of the most beautiful lights they've ever made"


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

radirpok said:


> Funnily the Tesla's beam looks a lot like the Dinotte 600L:
> 1. it is wide (wider than the Wilma)
> 2. it is bluish
> The most notable difference is a lovely accentuated spot area in the middle, which the Dinotte unfortunately does not have.
> ...


Radipork in the pics the Tesla doesn't look wider than the Wilma (check the trees on the sides)
I wonder if they are using diferent optics cause my Wilma seems less wide than the picture... My 600L wide lens is a little bit wider than my Wilma though


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

PUBCRAWL said:


> *mmm...
> yep, here's some pictures of the new 925 Lumen Wilma*


sorry if this seems to derail the topic...

but... 
Where, When, and for how much can I get this 925lumen version of this light???? 
I am really looking into getting the Wilma 6 right now, but don't want to invest into a light that will soon be outdated or overshadowed by a new model.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Contact gretnabikes to see when available


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

BikeSATORI said:


> holy smokes. Betty is one bad mamma jamma.


If you think the pictures are impressive you should see the light and it's beam pattern in person.
Just finished a 24Hr race this weekend.
I couldn't believe how many people commented on my Wilma 6 and Betty 6 set up. 
The lights seem to scare people right off the trail, as I rode up behind them people would simply just stop or get off the trail and let me by.  
My favourite quote from another rider as I passed him "Those are the brightest [email protected]#king lights I've ever seen, what the hell are they?"


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## WeakMite (May 11, 2004)

Even more new pics of the Tesla from the Lupine forum, (posted by Stefan on the 25th):


























...and more of the new Wilma too


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

PUBCRAWL said:


> The lights seem to scare people right off the trail, as I rode up behind them people would simply just stop or get off the trail and let me by.


Well, yeah. All they could probably see was their own shadow.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

rkj__ said:


> Well, yeah. All they could probably see was their own shadow.


mmm... never had this problem on group rides I've done using these lights.


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## rkj__ (Feb 29, 2004)

PUBCRAWL said:


> mmm... never had this problem on group rides I've done using these lights.


I noticed the problem when i borrowed halogens for my first ever 24h night lap. When somebody would roll up behind me with an HID, there would be lots of light, but my shadow would block what I actually wanted to see.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

rkj__ said:


> I noticed the problem when i borrowed halogens for my first ever 24h night lap. When somebody would roll up behind me with an HID, there would be lots of light, but my shadow would block what I actually wanted to see.


maybe... I have noticed that another Wilma and Betty set up riding behind me has absolutely no effect what so ever on my light pattern.

As well I did noticed many riders with sub-par lighting out on the trail at HAN.
It still amazing me what some people will put on their bikes to ride that race.
Some of the lights (or in some cases a total lack of lights) wouldn't even be good enough for around the campsite! I think in total I came across a dozen people with faulty lighting system during my two night laps.

*If the pricing on this new Tesla comes in as Lupine has already stated (approx. $460 CDN) I know many on my team would seriously consider a purchase, especially after seeing the Lupine quality up close and personal this weekend.*


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

I rode with 200 lumens for a group night ride or two (Dinotte). It was simply too dangerous, IMNSHO. 

I ride with a Betty 7 at 1,500 lumens now. Sometimes I'll add a smaller light on my helmet for corners, etc. The Betty provides an incredible improvement in my night riding confidence (and safety). The Betty can be programmed for different lighting lumens too - the best of all worlds. Great!

I predict the Tesla to be a big seller. Hurry Lupine!!!


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for posting more pics. The Tesla looks nice and the small size will make it a good helmet light. The bluer beam color on the Tesla is the only thing that disappoints me a bit, but still it's not bad. The one thing I loved about the Wilma and Betty beam is it isn't blue like some other LED lights and even farther from HID color. I do like remote switches a lot better though. 

Pubcrawl, that is great everyone took an interest in your Lupine lights. Maybe Lupine will get a few new customers after you demo the light for the other riders.  I have yet to come across anyone around here with lights that can put out the kind of light that the Lupine does. Mainly there are a few guys will halogen and a few HIDs.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

MaximusHQ said:


> Pubcrawl, that is great everyone took an interest in your Lupine lights. Maybe Lupine will get a few new customers after you demo the light for the other riders.  I have yet to come across anyone around here with lights that can put out the kind of light that the Lupine does. Mainly there are a few guys will halogen and a few HIDs.


I lent...  yes lent out my Lupines to 2 team mates and my wife lent hers to 1 other team mate. All were amazed at the light quality and performance the Lupines had. The loaning of these lights I think helped secure our 3rd place finish for the HAN race, as it put us up a full lap ahead of the 4th place team we were battling during the night laps.

The only hold back for everyone with Lupines is the cost.
The new Tesla is well within the price range of most people who are serious about night riding and 24hr racing. 
Last year this time a local shop here was selling Niterider HID's for a $900 CDN. and people were buying them... 
so I think a $460 Lupine would sell well... too bad no one in Canada actually sells them.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

PUBCRAWL said:


> I lent...  yes lent out my Lupines to 2 team mates and my wife lent hers to 1 other team mate. All were amazed at the light quality and performance the Lupines had. The loaning of these lights I think helped secure our 3rd place finish for the HAN race, as it put us up a full lap ahead of the 4th place team we were battling during the night laps.
> 
> The only hold back for everyone with Lupines is the cost.
> The new Tesla is well within the price range of most people who are serious about night riding and 24hr racing.
> ...


We ship to Canada every day. So if we can be there for you, just let us know. That's why we're here. And, we ride!


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## whstlr (Mar 30, 2008)

Hey Geoman, 

First up, thanks for your awesome service, i purchased my betty 7 from you last month, and they arrived in aussie land no problems. Thanks again.

Now to business.. Have you any word when you will recieve the tesla light? As i have a mate who want to get it as it will (hopefully) be in his price range!

I keep checking your website but its not there yet!:cryin: 

Cheers


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

whstlr said:


> Hey Geoman,
> 
> Now to business.. Have you any word when you will receive the Tesla light? As I have a mate who want to get it as it will (hopefully) be in his price range!
> 
> ...


No word on an exact date but it should likely be this month...

Keep watching!

Thanks for your kind words and support. We appreciate it.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

PUBCRAWL said:


> "Those are the brightest [email protected]#king lights I've ever seen, what the hell are they?"


Zactly! I get the same thing with my Betty. These new LUPINES are bright and programmable too so you can set your lights at various output settings... Nice!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

According to Gretna, the Tesla 4 should start shipping later this month.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Check these out :-

http://www.on-one-shop.co.uk/acatalog/Airbike.html

Same P7 LED, and much cheaper, major bargain!!


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

You're comparing apples to oranges... And I think there was another thread on here about that light, and it hardly seemed like all that great. Not to mention your looking at euro pricing. Convert that to dollars and it's not that much cheaper then what the Tesla is.

Not trying to bash your new light or anything. But you really can't compare these lights...


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> You're comparing apples to oranges... And I think there was another thread on here about that light, and it hardly seemed like all that great. Not to mention your looking at euro pricing. Convert that to dollars and it's not that much cheaper then what the Tesla is.
> 
> Not trying to bash your new light or anything. But you really can't compare these lights...


Todd's right.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

PUBCRAWL said:


> Too bad no one in Canada actually sells them.


I know someone that ships to Canada...


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

So converting at current rate is $200, I heard the Tesla was 350Euro's or £300 UK area, so it's under 1/2 the price.

Having not tested either I don't know which 1 is best but both P7 and likely very similar output wise.

Bet 2 of the cheap 1's still less than the Tesla would leave the Tesla for dead.

Personally I like my P7 torch and unlimited run time with cheap replaceable 18650's 6 - 7 hour night rides are faily common for me!!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Just ordered a Wilma 7 to be my mail order bride! Ordered a harness for her too, just to try to keep her under control if I take her backpacking with me, hahaha...
Thanks much, Jay, can't wait to get my hands on this bad devil.



Oh, gotta ask... are most people with these Lupine set-ups running them on helmet, or bar mount??? I'm really hoping that helmet mount is balanced and taught (and if possible, maybe even come up with a way to mount it on my MX helmet for some night trail sessions on the ol' crf250r! watch out!)


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

BikeSATORI said:


> Just ordered a Wilma 7 to be my mail order bride! Ordered a harness for her too, just to try to keep her under control if I take her backpacking with me, hahaha...
> Thanks much, Jay, can't wait to get my hands on this bad devil.
> 
> Oh, gotta ask... are most people with these Lupine set-ups running them on helmet, or bar mount??? I'm really hoping that helmet mount is balanced and taught (and if possible, maybe even come up with a way to mount it on my MX helmet for some night trail sessions on the ol' crf250r! watch out!)


When using one light I would go for the helmet mount for the most part, but it's even better to use both a bar and helmet light so go buy another Wilma. The Wilma helmet mount works great for me it doesn't move unless I want it to. :thumbsup:


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## Acadian (Jan 1, 2004)

Lupine is the only lights I'm willing to put my $$ down for.
New Tesla and Wilma are SWEET!!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Acadian said:


> Lupine is the only lights I'm willing to put my $$ down for.
> New Tesla and Wilma are SWEET!!


Def good stuff!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> When using one light I would go for the helmet mount for the most part, but it's even better to use both a bar and helmet light so go buy another Wilma. The Wilma helmet mount works great for me it doesn't move unless I want it to. :thumbsup:


Thanks for the tip. I was going for helmet mount anyway, since with my riding style I like to incorporate a lot of manuals and wheelies, and I would like to continue that riding style at night, w/out lighting up the tree canopy and leaving me blind to the terrain! Was just a little skeptical at how well it will balance on the helmet.
I don't think I'll be dropping coin for another Wilma 7 any time soon though, haha!  I think at that point I'd have too many buddies trying to mooch the "extra light".  If I find I really want another light for bar, I'll probably wait until next season, or just get a Stella or Dinotte 400 or something similar...

Acadian, great to hear. Just from lurking around this site and what I remember reading of your posts, you seem to have great access to the goods of the cycling industry, so I'll take your word for it. Reassuring hearing things like that, it's a big investment to make, but like I said, if I can use it on my crf250r at night too, even better $ well spent.:thumbsup:


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

BikeSATORI said:


> I don't think I'll be dropping coin for another Wilma 7 any time soon though, haha!  I think at that point I'd have too many buddies trying to mooch the "extra light".  If I find I really want another light for bar, I'll probably wait until next season, or just get a Stella or Dinotte 400 or something similar...
> :


After a season of using a Lupine light you won't want any other brand of light. Once you go Lupine, you never go back!


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

PUBCRAWL said:


> mmm... never had this problem on group rides I've done using these lights.


It's borderline obnoxious if you have one person with one of these behind you, and offensive if the person owning one of these has a helmet mount, hears you coming, and turns their head your way.

Personally, I hate helmet mounts on night rides, their owners don't seem to "get it" that where ever they turn their head, they blind and wipe out the night vision of the unexpected recipient of their beam. It reminds me of police raids at night or getting pulled over and the officer deliberately blinds you and fries your eyesight so that you are seeing stars and nothing else, so that they can maintain control of the situation. It leaves me and my senses feeling violated. Handlebar mounted lights don't seem to have that problem.

I'm thinking this is too much of a good thing, something with 400 to 600 lumens seems perfect for a mtn bike, anything more just seems like too much of a good thing, or in this case, overkill.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> It's borderline obnoxious if you have one person with one of these behind you, and offensive if the person owning one of these has a helmet mount, hears you coming, and turns their head your way.
> 
> Personally, I hate helmet mounts on night rides, their owners don't seem to "get it" that where ever they turn their head, they blind and wipe out the night vision of the unexpected recipient of their beam. It reminds me of police raids at night or getting pulled over and the officer deliberately blinds you and fries your eyesight so that you are seeing stars and nothing else, so that they can maintain control of the situation. It leaves me and my senses feeling violated. Handlebar mounted lights don't seem to have that problem.
> 
> I'm thinking this is too much of a good thing, something with 400 to 600 lumens seems perfect for a mtn bike, anything more just seems like too much of a good thing, or in this case, overkill.


Sounds to me like your problem really isn't with the light, nor with where it is mounted. More like a problem with the people you ride with. 

And the great part about these Lupine led lights is they are completely programmable, so you can set the "lumens" lower and also in return get a longer battery life, but still have the complete power with the click of a button for hairy descents or technical situations. You can't necessarily deem something as "overkill", everyone has a different riding style, rides different terrain, and heck, maybe even doesnt' eat as much carrot as you for their night vision, haha!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

BikeSATORI said:


> Sounds to me like your problem really isn't with the light, nor with where it is mounted. More like a problem with the people you ride with.
> 
> And the great part about these Lupine led lights is they are completely programmable, so you can set the "lumens" lower and also in return get a longer battery life, but still have the complete power with the click of a button for hairy descents or technical situations. You can't necessarily deem something as "overkill", everyone has a different riding style, rides different terrain, and heck, maybe even doesnt' eat as much carrot as you for their night vision, haha!


I will often ride with my Betty 7 at 50% power (~750 lumens) but am thankful for the additional brightness on full power when I need it.

I love the thing, FWIW. I've used many different lights over the years. LUPINE is the best I've used - ever. That's why we sell 'em.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

A light as an investment? ROFLMAO...Somehow... someone got shortchanged on their education if a light is an investment. A light is a tool, never an investment for an end user /consumer.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> It's borderline obnoxious if you have one person with one of these behind you, and offensive if the person owning one of these has a helmet mount, hears you coming, and turns their head your way.


 
It's borderline obnoxious because I have bright lights and I use them?
Are you speaking from personal experiences you've had with Lupine lights?

Light etiquette is no different that trail etiquette... common sense and respect.

A nice feature of Lupines LED's is the dimmer PCS switch that can cut them to 10% power (or any power setting you chose) with a flick of the switch.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

How about an investment in your safety. That sounds good!


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

RandyBoy said:


> A light as an investment? ROFLMAO...Somehow... someone got shortchanged on their education if a light is an investment. A light is a tool, never an investment for an end user /consumer.


hey now, c'mon. 
Chill out randy boy, attacking someone's intelligence on an internet forum is not needed, whether indirect or not. Relax, we're here to talk about bikes and lights, not write a thesis. RALPH&MAOZEDONG


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## Alex SP (Sep 25, 2007)

People tend to think of investment as something that should, by definition, bring some sort of finantial return. Well, to me, even in the broader sense of the word a good bike light can be considered an investment. To me, it is an investment in the most precious of all things: TIME. Doesn´t have to be money. I did not buy a Wilma to profit from it, if not by allowing more time, safety and fun to ride my bike at night. My "investment" was in many ways highly "rewarded"!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Sometimes it's nice to know that you have the best there is... 

We all have our own opinions - thankfully. RandyBoy's comments are encouraged even though he may not say what some of us want to hear - or agree with. His perspective is genuine. 

Thank you all.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

RandyBoy said:


> A light as an investment? ROFLMAO...Somehow... someone got shortchanged on their education if a light is an investment. A light is a tool, never an investment for an end user /consumer.


You could say having a better light is a investment in reducing your odds of breaking your neck while night riding 

You could also possibly get it at a discount dump it on e-bay charge a stupid amount for postage and make a profit on it, in that case it could be considered a investment to.


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## ramaloji (Feb 28, 2008)

Zipcom said:


> Here the "2008 Beam comparison - Preview" from the Lupine Forum.
> 
> Nighmare 25W Halogen
> 
> ...


lupine is good light

but its 700 lumens seem to illuminate more than my 1000 lumens

because they do not publish data EXIF

their photos

so I can really compare their quality


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

That Betty light output is something! As I mentioned before, I ride with one. It is awesome.

Thanks for posting those pics!


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2008)

What is the cost of replacing the battery, charger, and/or bulbs? 

How will these parts hold up over the years? 

Is this a disposable part like bar tape, cassette, chain or am I investing in a part of my bike that may last 10, 20 years or more?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

_or am I investing in a part of my bike that may last 10, 20 years or more?_

10 or 20 years, are you serious, in 3years they'll be out of date, heavy and under powered compared to whats around and the batterys and charger will likely give up.

It's definately not a investment, but it's Lupine and if you like the Bling factor then buy the Bling factor and stop justifying it as a long term investment.

I'll stick to torches that a) do the same and b) let me just buy more cheap batterys for 10hour run times EASY


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2008)

RandyBoy said:


> A light as an investment? ROFLMAO...Somehow... someone got shortchanged on their education if a light is an investment. A light is a tool, never an investment for an end user /consumer.


I think of my bicycle as an investment........of course it is bicycle riding that is the real investment in my health and well being.......shelling out the $$$ is just part of the bicycle investment part, I guess have a nice day


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## Musicman Ger. (Sep 28, 2007)

ramaloji said:


> lupine is good light
> 
> but its 700 lumens seem to illuminate more than my 1000 lumens
> 
> ...


Lupine make their Photos with follow settings: f8, ISO800, 6s.

We (www.mtb-news.de) make our own "standart", only for a better comparability. Look here: http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showpost.php?p=4144233&postcount=101 and there are many many Pics 

P.s.: Sorry for my bad English!!!


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

GEOMAN said:


> Sometimes it's nice to know that you have the best there is...
> 
> We all have our own opinions - thankfully. RandyBoy's comments are encouraged even though he may not say what some of us want to hear - or agree with. His perspective is genuine.
> 
> Thank you all.


The best there is? Come on... The Osram Ostar emitter will blow that out of the water for sheer horsepower. Someone just needs to put it together in a package for more $ than a Lupine, sell it to the stocking bike shops as The Next Big Thing, and shortly thereafter, the fools and their money will soon be separated. I'm pretty sure I've stated fact, not opinion, seeing I have no financial stake in this or anything to gain or affect my sales $ numbers.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

If they are in the $450-475 CDN range, I may just have found my next light


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

One way to look at it as a long term investment. 

When new LED's are available, you will be able to buy an upgrade kit to bring your light up to speed. This has already happened with the 380 or 420 lumen Wilma, bringing them up to 750 lumens, with no affect on run time...

If your light you bought 5 years ago has a battery that is at the end of it's life, you can buy any battery size in the Lupine family and it will work with the lamp you just upgraded.
If any one reading this owns a Betty, you prob know your Charger One can even charge old lupine NIMH, or NiCad batteries.

Having a system that can adapt to new trends or standards, is an investment to me.

And for anyone who actually knows someone that works for Lupine, it's not about the bling, it's about German engineering.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> One way to look at it as a long term investment.
> 
> When new LED's are available, you will be able to buy an upgrade kit to bring your light up to speed. This has already happened with the 380 or 420 lumen Wilma, bringing them up to 750 lumens, with no affect on run time...
> 
> ...


Truthfully though there is nothing special just as people are pointing out. Its not an investment.

The features you point out are not unique. For example Night Lightning offers retrofit options too for their old customers (the last two generations of the product even) and they are not unique in this respect - other brands also offer retrofit options too. They are more unique in that they don't even require you to use their batteries and they even sell their entire lamp products in DIY kits if you want to save money. Whether you buy the DIY or the assembled light you can use ANY battery from 12-20V with their lamps - SLA, NiMH, Lion, LiPO, LiFePO4, etc. They also offer programmable settings (in admin mode) just like Lupine but with more user configurable options. Not only are their lights programmable but you can even upgrade the software that controls the lights for whatever future upgrades might require software changes.

Electronics have never been a strong point of German engineering. After all the heart of Lupine (and others) are LED from Asia 

The lighting market is very crowded with lots of great products available from companies in Australia, UK, New Zealand, US, Korea, and others. Lupine will have to try harder to really differentiate themselves these days as they are no longer unique in the market.


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

syadasti said:


> Truthfully though there is nothing special just as people are pointing out. Its not an investment.
> 
> The features you point out are not unique. For example Night Lightning offers retrofit options too for their old customers (the last two generations of the product even) and they are not unique in this respect - other brands also offer retrofit options too. They are more unique in that they don't even require you to use their batteries and they even sell their entire lamp products in DIY kits if you want to save money. Whether you buy the DIY or the assembled light you can use ANY battery from 12-20V with their lamps - SLA, NiMH, Lion, LiPO, LiFePO4, etc. They also offer programmable settings (in admin mode) just like Lupine but with more user configurable options. Not only are their lights programmable but you can even upgrade the software that controls the lights for whatever future upgrades might require software changes.
> 
> ...


Ya took the words right out of my mouth. Anyone that owns a german car and works on them knows that the engineering sucks, they seem to get intense pleasure shoehorning an engine into a shoebox, then wonder why the engine has overheating problems with the motor oil, then they create some outrageous motor oil requirement just for their engines, that they have to test, approve and issue you a license that the oil producer has to pay for specifing that the motor oil is up to their standard and won't create warranty denied issues. That's piss poor engineering if you ask me.

Plus working on the engine once installed requires a fortune in specialized tools to do something as basic as changing a timing belt.

You can only Market bullsh*t for so long before people realize you are selling overpriced Bovine based fertilizer high in Methane and nitrogen.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

RandyBoy [B said:


> You can only Market bullsh*t for so long before people realize you are selling overpriced Bovine based fertilizer high in Methane and nitrogen[/B].


 I'm Marketing Bullsh!t...???


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## Alex SP (Sep 25, 2007)

I see a lot of simplistic generalization here. Yeah, like all german engineering is that bad. Taking from your own principle that _"you can only market ******** for so long before people realize etc"_, don´t you think the Audis, BMWs, Porshes and BMWs would have such a high reputation everywhere being as crappy as you´re painting? Oh, of course... I forgot I´m talking to highly enlightened consumers, my apologies.

I don´t drive a X5 or a A6 but I ride a Wilma 6 and it rocks. It takes 10 seconds to put on the bike, it stays there even under lots of rattling, it works flawlessly every time even under heavy rain and mud... if that´s not good engineering, I don´t know what it is. Of course there are as-good-as or maybe even better options. Of course one can "engineer" a super DIY, but I can´t see how that detract from german engineering, electroneering or whatever.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Well this thread has gone to crap. I thought we were discussing the Tesla light not bashing Lupine and German engineering? Lupine makes excellent lights with great features. Saying that they are marketing ******** is a moronic statement. Have you ever even used one of their lights to make such statements. If their lights didn't deliver the goods then I could see why you would be *****ing about them, but the fact is they do deliver. And why the heck are you talking about German cars, we are talking about a bike light here? 

Don't worry Todd we know you aren't marketing bullsh!t lol.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

People that talks BS about lupine has never had one in their hands. Craftmanship is second to none absolutely beautiful. On the other hand, the heat dissipation of my Wilma is better than "other" excellent lights. That's engineering:thumbsup:


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

I went through several lights and ended up with the Lupines. Everyone has personal preferences but when it comes to construction quality, sturdiness, attention to detail , and features, nothing came close. There still isn't anything I'll trade my Wilma and Betty for...not this year anyway. Nightlightning, Niteflux, and HID Tech are nice but still not close enough. Nite Rider is clunky and bottom-of-the-pile. L&M's Seca- jury is still out though their ARC was superb for a HID. Jet Lites- no idea what their LED is doing though I still dig their halogens (yeah, I used the 'H" word) even today. 

As a complete package and in overall construction, it is still hard to beat the Lupines- and I have the "old" versions. I'll start geeking out on lights again this year and am looking forward to it. Autumn is here and I have a new bike to introduce to nightriding.


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## Psycho Mike (Apr 2, 2006)

Flyer said:


> Jet Lites- no idea what their LED is doing though I still dig their halogens (yeah, I used the 'H" word) even today.


Hehehe...Flyer, don't sweat the H-word  I'm still running a pair of halogens to meet my needs, though the Tesla has caught my attention: same output as both my halogens with longer run time. If it weren't for the fact I'd be concerned about the added weight of the halogen's batteries, I'd go for a Tesla on the helmet and put both halogens on the bars.

Maybe next spring I'll make the jump to LED tech


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

If I didn't have the Lupines, I'd still use the Jet Halogens. There is something about that beam color that brings back memories of dark nights in strange lands with the only solace of light being the huge steel flashlights that lit up the night. Ah, the good old days of kerosene lamps and Hyena cackles in the middle of the night....

I seem to have strayed of topic though...gotta find another forum for all that


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Owners who have made such a big investment are often biased will say such things. I have an aversion to such thinking and blind brand loyalty and like to try all the brands myself.

I'm not saying they aren't still a great product but they just have to try harder to differentiate themselves today. I've owned and seen many lights and the premium just isn't justified anymore. Unless there is a glaring flaw like bad smart charger/electronics or fragile/flawed lamp the small differences in the products don't justify $150-200 premium especially when the cheaper products can throw more light, use newer battery technology with greater runtime, or use newer generation LEDs sooner. They were great in the past but the marketplace is much more competitive these days and its simply not pulling its weight like it use to.

P.S. For fair disclosure I sold off my lights as night riding illegal where I currently live. I don't own any of them anymore. I've been night riding the trails for over ten years and have seen everything from halogen to HID to LED from every make and brand - DIY to primo setups. Even the guys with the crazy homemade setups with huge SLA are having fun. Spending the big for the [usually small incremental] difference isn't what is all about and it doesn't making things as great as owners like to tell themselves/claim. Once you get to a certain point you get very severe diminishing returns despite the claims of marketing engineers.

The same goes for bikes themselves. People make outrageous claims like that about bike brands and perceived superiority often based on the past and/or price premiums alone. After owning 30 MTBs from 16 different brands over the past 20 years, I know its simply not true. The brands are dynamic and past products or reputation don't always reflect the current ones. Acadian also seems to realize it as he loves bikes from brands both mainstream and boutique.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

If something is signicantly better, I'll get it. I don't care about the money sunk into the Lupines or any light and I don't have to protect any investment. If Niteflux or someone comes up with a really sweet light, I'm all ears though I finally feel no need for more light or a better light color.

The fun you have comes from inside and knowing that is 90% of the game. We don't want to have something to keep up with others. 

However, I like really nice stuff as well so I try it all and end up (or want to end up) with Lupine, Knolly, Turner, Ventana, Moots, Ibis, etc. instead of other bikes/lights I have tried. I have no wife/kids so I can afford to do this....for now. Let me enjoy this without being a buzzkill.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

First of all... I apologize to the posters on this thread for my use of the term "investment" out of context in one of my above posts. That was my mistake with improper use of vocabulary. 
I should have just simply said, "It's a heavy chunk of coin for me to drop on these lights", in place of "big investement".... 
And to my amazement, my simple mistake while quickly typing a response on an internet forum seems to have sparked quite a heated debate here, and not even necessarily direclty related to this thread. A debate that has apparantly been reduced to insult, and as a result, brought the vibe of this thread to a feeling of hostility.
For clarification, I was just explaining that I am not used to spending much money (like over $40) on lights, but this time, I have the money available and decided to purchase what I see as an excellent light. I am simply hoping to get a light that can serve me well in a variety of uses (cycling, enduro motorcycling, backpacking, camping, climbing, etc.), hold up to abuse, and since I'm not a huge light enthusiast, I hope it will last me a decent while into the future as it is since I won't be upgrading every season.



syadasti said:


> Owners who have made such a big investment are often biased will say such things. I have an aversion to such thinking and blind brand loyalty and like to try all the brands myself.
> 
> I'm not saying they aren't still a great product but they just have to try harder to differentiate themselves today. I've owned and seen many lights and the premium just isn't justified anymore. Unless there is a glaring flaw like bad smart charger/electronics or fragile/flawed lamp the small differences in the products don't justify $150-200 premium especially when the cheaper products can throw more light, use newer battery technology with greater runtime, or use newer generation LEDs sooner. They were great in the past but the marketplace is much more competitive these days and its simply not pulling its weight like it use to.
> 
> ...


My decision was not an overly biased one, not blinded by marketting or anything like that. It was simply based on some minor research and comparison (I'm sure some of you are thinking maybe I should have researched more, but I'd rather spend my time with friends and bike, instead of reading books on emitters and DIY and such!). And not at all saying I feel my "research" led me astray when I found Lupine either.  
I'm hardly a brand name biased type of person, nor overboard with logo based loyalty. And this applies to most all things in my life. I'm not one to even base most of my decision on where the product is from/designed/manufactured, so being German had nothing to do with my decision. Not like if it was Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, or Canadian would have had anything to do with it either.

Your argument that Lupine should do more to stick out from the crowd is an interesting point of view, but not the way I see it at all.

I'm not sure what kind of light or bike you use currently, but I'm sure you have your own reasons for purchasing them. Which, I or anybody else could just as easily label you as being "brand loyal", and "blind", for owning or purchasing.
I've owned/purchased 4 bikes to add to my stable this season alone, all of different brand, type, design, manufacture, etc. Owned too many to count over the years, well in excess of 50 (not even including bmx!), so that doesn't even apply to me either. I've still got well over a dozen of my personal bikes out in the shop right now.
I know exactly where you're coming from though, there is no denying there are the "gucci" riders out there, or the Turner Homers or whatever... but it is completely out of place to assume all other cyclists other than yourself are that way in mindset.
Please don't let this thread come down to a Ford vs. Chevy, Import vs. Local, My dad can beat up your dad kind of argument. :thumbsup:

You know, I really didn't have to explain myself like that, but seriously, trolling threads is a great way to get some different points of view and create discussion, but I saw this one getting way out of hand with issues coming up that were way off base.  ...and all apparantly in result to my post using the term "investment".

p.s. that's completely too bad that night riding has been outlawed where you live. Can truly make me appreciate where I live out under the stars where nobody's watching out in these woods!


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Let me ask you syadasti, since you don't trust anything who owns a Lupine light has to say. Have you used and tested out a Lupine Betty or Wilma light and what did you like and dislike about them? I've been riding trails at night for more than ten years too using a wide variety of lights as well and have not seen anything that matches Lupine quality and attention to detail, and light output. 

Lupine put out some high powered LED lights before most of the other companies had a clue and then had to play catchup. It's interesting how Nightlighting seems to have a lot of similar features that Lupine has, it's like they basically copied a lot of Lupines features.

When I bought my Lupines (Betty and Wilma) almost a year ago there wasn't another LED light on the market that could compare with their output and features. Now looking around at current LED light offerings it seems others have closed the gap, but still seem behind. The price wasn't really a big deal I was more concerned with getting the best and brightest LED bike lights going and it was a no brainer going with Lupine. Now after many many night rides with the lights including snow, rain, and even road salt they still function perfectly and I am still amazed at the light output these two lights put out.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Let me ask you syadasti, since you don't trust anything who owns a Lupine light has to say. Have you used and tested out a Lupine Betty or Wilma light and what did you like and dislike about them? I've been riding trails at night for more than ten years too using a wide variety of lights as well and have not seen anything that matches Lupine quality and attention to detail, and light output.
> 
> Lupine put out some high powered LED lights before most of the other companies had a clue and then had to play catchup. It's interesting how Nightlighting seems to have a lot of similar features that Lupine has, it's like they basically copied a lot of Lupines features.
> 
> When I bought my Lupines (Betty and Wilma) almost a year ago there wasn't another LED light on the market that could compare with their output and features. Now looking around at current LED light offerings it seems others have closed the gap, but still seem behind. The price wasn't really a big deal I was more concerned with getting the best and brightest LED bike lights going and it was a no brainer going with Lupine. Now after many many night rides with the lights including snow, rain, and even road salt they still function perfectly and I am still amazed at the light output these two lights put out.


I am not saying at one point Lupine wasn't ahead with things like class leading HID systems or one the first quad optic LED designs. Their products are very high quality but that doesn't mean there aren't others out there doing the same. The only aspect they are lagging in right now is cost probably as result of the mark versus the dollar.

Nightlightning is not a new company that copied Lupine. They've been around a long time and have been doing LEDs for retail lighting even before they made outdoor lighting products. They've been making adventure halogen systems for ages and sponsoring teams for over 7 years. They sold their first 9-watt tri-optic lamp with three Luxeon LED back in July 2003. Lupine did not show their Luxeon 3-watt LED equipped Wilma until Eurobike in 2005 (which was before it was on sale) so they were a few years behind, not ahead.

Nightlightning is still ahead of Lupine as far as LED generations. Their last generation product uses the same LEDs as Lupine's current product (P4 Seoul) and now they've been shipping with 40% brighter Cree R2 since May.

Flyer noted he like Jet Lights:



flyer said:


> If I didn't have the Lupines, I'd still use the Jet Halogens. There is something about that beam color that brings back memories of dark nights in strange lands with the only solace of light being the huge steel flashlights that lit up the night.


This user too agreed on Jetlight performance/not liking HID and when they bought the Nightlighting they agreed the Cree R2 version blows it away:



rotobob said:


> Anyway, I have been using a Jetlites Phantom (helmet mount) for two years using a 14.8v Li-ion battery, which I have always preferred to any other light I have seen in person so far, halogen or HID. I haven't really ever run across anyone with a decent LED to compare with. The Jet light is just as nice as you can get with a halogen IMO.
> 
> As far as light output, the iBlasst is not only whiter light, but it is decently brighter as well. I always thought the Jet was pretty much the whitest of the halogens, but it looks pretty yellow compared to the iBlaast2. Jet claims 750 lumens from the 25W light and iBlaast2 claims 885 lumens if these LED's are the R2 Cree's. But, maybe they are something more potent, as they waid it was going to be a 1000 lumen light. Either way, it's a noticable difference how much brighter the iBlaast2 is than the Jet Phantom.


And yes I've used both brands of lights and after seeing them I gave my money to Nighlightning. The last two lights I used before moving were from nightlighting - the Comet DCM overdrive 35 watt IRC Lion and I also demoed the Endurenz (wasn't bright enough for me after using the Comet so I didn't buy it).

[quote="flyer]If Niteflux or someone comes up with a really sweet light, I'm all ears though I finally feel no need for more light or a better light color.[/quote]

I've also seen the first revision of the Nightflux Max and it was brighter than the Wilma I've seen on the trail. They pulled it off with only three vs. four LED which is pretty impressive. You don't have to take my word or guesstimate - MTBR measured it 12% brighter:



> http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/niteflux-photon-max/
> 
> In this shootout, we've seen outstanding lights from Dinotte, Exposure and Niterider. They're all around $400 and our measured Lux readings for them are 33, 30 and 33 Lux respectively. So we expected this $400 Niteflux to be in that range.
> 
> ...


Nighflux didn't rest on their laurels with this product though, they updated the optics:



> last year's photon max was generally thought to be a bit too bright and narrow. Any stock that comes from our online store has wider optics now.
> 
> Tri-optics configuration
> 8 degree X 1
> 19 degree X 2


To continue more on topic it seems the Korean SSCP7 LED light competition is filling fast with Korea itself jumping in to the ring. Already Airbike, LITEmania, and Hanlite each have two versions of SSCP7 lights themselves.

So as I said its a crowded competitive marketplace and heating up even faster now. Lupine might have been ahead with their HID or quad LED vs. tri luxeon lamp but the market evolves fast. More effort on the part of any company is needed to truly shine. Its a great time to be a consumer.


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

syadasti said:


> Nighflux didn't rest on their laurels with this product though, they updated the optics:


Where's this info from? Any beamshots? No info about this on the Niteflux website...


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

radirpok said:


> Where's this info from? Any beamshots? No info about this on the Niteflux website...


I emailed them and asked if they made any changes since that review.


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## Alex SP (Sep 25, 2007)

syadasti said:


> Owners who have made such a big investment are often biased will say such things. I have an aversion to such thinking and blind brand loyalty and like to try all the brands myself.
> 
> ....


That´s a flawed argument to say the least. First, "big investment" or "small investment" is relative to the depth of one´s pocket, not to the price of the good. What may be considered a big investment for one may be change for other. Second, you´re assuming too many things about others when you say "such thinking and blind brand loyalty". Hardcore night riders are hardly a blind bunch, and may opt for the best after many yrs of trying out everything, just like you said you would do to form your own opinion.

I´m not saying one should take other´s opinions to the word, but there´s a considerable source of knowledge from some people with real world experience and yrs or trial that should not be disregarded or viewed as brand loyalty or biased opinion.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Alex SP said:


> I´m not saying one should take other´s opinions to the word, but there´s a considerable source of knowledge from some people with real world experience and yrs or trial that should not be disregarded or viewed as brand loyalty or biased opinion.


You aren't following the thread. You need a better light-I mean link-to see

If it cost 30-40% more than that of devices that perform similarly or better that sure its a significant difference in investment. Especially when the LED that make up the light are often from the same exact brand or are inferior and/or older generation LEDs.

Maybe its not loyalty but just lack of effort on their part then not that being lazy is any better. I clearly pointed out how brands were performing better both in the real world and in tests. Its actually lack of knowledge as they just assumed it was better where as I mentioned I've used or ridden with people with a variety of brands.


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## Alex SP (Sep 25, 2007)

Well, before we go on with this I´d like to make clear that, although I own a Lupine I also have owned and still own a few of other bike lights, and I have been riding and racing off-road in the dark seriously for the last 15 yrs or so. What I mean is, I have no ties to Lupine nor any other bike light brand and I´m not here to stand for Lupine (like they need it), or even my own consumer choices (like I need it). I pay for my stuff, and if that doesn´t mean unbiased opinion, at least it means my opinion is not commercially driven.

I´ve got just a couple of points to make about this, and sorry if I don´t follow the thread as you´d expect ;-)

The thing with Lupine is not just about LEDs, 3 or 4 or 5 whatever. It´s the whole construction, and it´s not enough to ride behind someone with a Betty or a Wilma to realize or have a measurement of comparison. The same holds true to every other light, I must add. You got to try it, and try it hard, not just a walk in the yard. It was the same in the HID era with the Edison. Their HID wasn´t highly supperior _per se_ but the whole package - batteries, connectors, chargers, built, size, etc. - is top notch. They clearly have a supperior attention for detail. You may not care for this, but it sets a higher standard and some are looking exactly for this, much in the same way some are looking for the exclusivity and status of a good DIY project.

I´d also credit Lupine´s reputation to a simple thing that seems lacking from many others: consistency. About their releases, updates and products in general. Unlike many of their competitors, they don´t seem to try too hard to create hype about their stuff. You get to know about a 920 lumen upgrade for the Wilma, a month later you can get it on your 830 one, and working flawlessly. They get a lot of good word-of-mouth propaganda, and IMHO it stems from this consistency rather than from lumen output or design. I see others comparing their products to Lupine´s, trying to beat them all the time, and to me that speaks loud to any consumer looking for "the best" in a given market. Sure, others may be better informed or have different criteria, but so what.

I also see a tsunami of false releases and unfilled claims from some guys out there about their "soon to be released" marvels. Mega LEDs with 2 zillion lumens enough to lit the moon, ultra-wide lenses reaching the horizon, and ever longer running batteries. Perhaps Lupine´s good reputation is well deserved. You see a pic in the forum and you go "wow". Then you see one in action and you go "wow". You read the specs you go "wow". You use one, you get that same "wow". Then you buy one, and you go "wow" for yrs, every time you put it on your bike: under rain, in races and rides, in the mud, on the road. That´s consistency. It´s the same with L&M, and they get the same reputation as a reward for their consistency too.

But that´s just IMHO.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Alex SP said:


> Well, before we go on with this I´d like to make clear that, although I own a Lupine I also have owned and still own a few of other bike lights, and I have been riding and racing off-road in the dark seriously for the last 15 yrs or so. What I mean is, I have no ties to Lupine nor any other bike light brand and I´m not here to stand for Lupine (like they need it), or even my own consumer choices (like I need it). I pay for my stuff, and if that doesn´t mean unbiased opinion, at least it means my opinion is not commercially driven.
> 
> I´ve got just a couple of points to make about this, and sorry if I don´t follow the thread as you´d expect ;-)


The three brands I've mentioned directly are smaller and advertise even less than Lupine. Nightlightning has been making high watt high quality LED setups for longer than Lupine as I pointed out and are well proven in NZ which has a challenging wet climate (I lived there for half a year in the fall/winter). Their last generation product used the same P4 LEDs in the current Lupine and they've moved on to more efficient Cree R2 back in May and offer upgrades for any customers with the older generations. There are brands innovating in their own ways as I've pointed out above.

Sure its enough to have friends you ride with all the time. As I said I've been riding mountain bikes for twenty years and night riding for ten - that isn't the back yard :nono: Friends don't usually hide the fact whether or not they have issues with their gear. The only brand I've often seen big problems with is Nightrider which I never mentioned as comparable. Also I never said they had problems with their Lupine either I am saying that other brands do just as well and sometimes better even at significant lower prices. They no longer have clear stand out features in a crowded market.


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## Alex SP (Sep 25, 2007)

syadasti said:


> ... I am saying that other brands do just as well and sometimes better even at significant lower prices.


Maybe not with the same overall consistency as Lupine. That´s exactly my point. Or maybe they´re falling short in advertising, who knows. It´s not enough to have a top product, you must let others know about it and you must make it accessible, and I don´t mean that just in regards to price but also commercialy. DIYs may be cheaper and better than Lupine too, and many are! But then you have to put it together and that´s not for everyone (and therein lies the appeal for many DIYers I´m sure  ).

I´m defending that Lupine has a good word-of-mouth reputation among hardcore users, and that can only come from quality and consistency, that delicate link between marketing-product-offer, long run policies. Sure it´s not from bad engineering or high pricing, you can´t fool everyone for too long like that.

They may not be as big and powerful as Niterider, or as innovative and upfront as Nightlightning, or inexpensive and solid as L&M, or anything you may care to think of as the highlight of a single company, be it consumer care or marketing or whatever. But they score high in all those areas and maybe that´s their strenght and appeal. Niterider goes after the consumer, whereas Lupine and many other likewise companies are sought after. Consistency.

When I decided to shop for a new lightset, being out of the bike light market for a few years, I was drawn to a few brands. Nightlightning was one of them, but it was a hassle to get together. Even if not real, or not based on facts, I foresaw some troubles from ordering it or perhaps needing warranty or service.

After a lot of research and inquiring, Lupine came out offering everything I was looking for. From being easy (though not cheap I admit) to find and get, from the nice casing to the overall performance, from the "expert" reviews to the general opinions found in forums, it had it all. And after almost 1 yr of heavy use, it proved right. Consistency. Some look for price, but some don´t.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Alex SP said:


> Maybe not with the same overall consistency as Lupine. That´s exactly my point. Or maybe they´re falling short in advertising, who knows. It´s not enough to have a top product, you must let others know about it and you must make it accessible, and I don´t mean that just in regards to price but also commercialy. DIYs may be cheaper and better than Lupine too, and many are! But then you have to put it together and that´s not for everyone (and therein lies the appeal for many DIYers I´m sure


Nobody gains anything by having the best advertising so thats a moot point (besides the fact you just pointed out that hype is bad). Nightlighting has been around for a long time and is consistent so I fail to see how you support that. Commercially they are move FASTER. They updated from P4 to Cree R2 with delivery to customers back in May - Lupine is still using P4s. I haven't mentioned any DIY lights. Nightlightning offers a DIY option but most people buy assembled lights - that means they offer even more options for the consumer, not less. They have great support the only negative is if you don't live in NZ you'll have to wait a day or two more for airmail because they are far away.

Lupine fanboys seem as bad as homers (I own one but I ain't no homer)


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

syadasti said:


> *NightLightning* fanboys seem as bad as homers (I own one but I ain't no homer)


I agree (I own a Turner as well, but I'm sure most Homers probably don't even know what a Rail is). 
All a matter of perspective, just fill in the blank. :thumbsup: Just remind yourself what thread you're in. 

That new iBlaast II does look pretty sweet. But, still pretty pricey when you add everything up. 
Didn't realize they were based out of ChristChurch. 
(complete sideline) Had a buddy who lived down in Wellington for about a year in '07/08. He quit his job and ended up going to Christchurch and buying a cheap old van and touring the south island for a couple of months or so.... Ended up breaking his leg on a root laden tranny drop and had to have emergency surgery. The NZ government ended up paying him a weekly check since he could not work, and he wasn't even a citizen. I find that incredibly amazing... 
I'll find my way there in the very near future, always high on my list. :thumbsup:


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> I agree (I own a Turner as well, but I'm sure most Homers probably don't even know what a Rail is).
> All a matter of perspective, just fill in the blank. :thumbsup: Just remind yourself what thread you're in.


I remember seeing the Turner Burner hanging on the shop back in the early to mid nineties (94ish?) and my friend got one and loved it. I have another friend years later who had a Rail but sold it before he moved out the CO. I currently have an 05 Enduro Pro (which I got in NZ), 07 RFX, and 08 BLT2. I'll sell off one of them in the Spring as three is too much, heh. Perhaps I'll get a 2010 DWL Turner (don't like first years for completely redesigns of anything). I had the first DWL bike on the market - the 2002.5 Ironhorse Hollowpoint.



> That new iBlaast II does look pretty sweet. But, still pretty pricey when you add everything up.


A big part of the cost is the battery because they have to import it from Canada. They don't require you to use their batteries as noted in the thread I linked. You can buy a decent Lion setup from batteryspace for $126 as they note in the iBlaast2 thread I linked above or you can find or make another if you like 12-20V and it will work.



> Didn't realize they were based out of ChristChurch.
> (complete sideline) Had a buddy who lived down in Wellington for about a year in '07/08. He quit his job and ended up going to Christchurch and buying a cheap old van and touring the south island for a couple of months or so.... Ended up breaking his leg on a root laden tranny drop and had to have emergency surgery. The NZ government ended up paying him a weekly check since he could not work, and he wasn't even a citizen. I find that incredibly amazing...
> I'll find my way there in the very near future, always high on my list. :thumbsup:


I lived in Wellington in 2005 (spring/summer here but fall/winter there). If it was closer I'd probably still be living there, its an awesome country with friendly people and a number of great places to enjoy the outdoors.


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## Alex SP (Sep 25, 2007)

Fanboys... once again you´re crediting it to blind brand loyalty, like me or anyone else has to justify dropping $800 on a bike light. Not the case here, but I admit the more I talk the more it seems exactly like that. Anyhoo... 

I mentioned DIYs to argument that "sometimes better even at significant lower prices" doesn´t mean everything, and certainly doesn´t prove that Lupines are bad engineering or super expensive like some try to. 

And I never said that word-of-mouth = hype, you´re the one implying that. I like Lupine for their quality only. I´m sure many others offer that quality for less. But not a lot less since there´s no free meal - they all share similar inners and they all want to profit from their products. I also like L&M, after trying many HIDs I finally got what I was looking for from their ARC light.

To me, having to import batteries from Canada or anywhere, or even having to go out and shop for one around here to complement a headlight, no matter how good it may be, is a hassle. It´s part-DIY. If you get the "whole package" deal, you end up with similar prices. No free meal here too. 

To many, the option of picking any other battery for their lights is a plus, but not to me. I did my fair share or DIY in the good old days, now I want convenience. Lupine is not the only one offering it, and it sure as hell ain´t offering it for the best price around. It may not even be offering the latest or greatest. But once again, it offers consistency. 

I don´t want to turn this thread into a flame and I guess we all have made our points clear. I respect your arguments and POVs, thanks for showing me a different way to see things.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Alex SP said:


> Fanboys... once again you´re crediting it to blind brand loyalty, like me or anyone else has to justify dropping $800 on a bike light. Not the case here, but I admit the more I talk the more it seems exactly like that. Anyhoo...
> 
> I mentioned DIYs to argument that "sometimes better even at significant lower prices" doesn´t mean everything, and certainly doesn´t prove that Lupines are bad engineering or super expensive like some try to.
> 
> ...


I've never claimed Lupine are poor quality, in fact I said the opposite several times. The primary drawback I've stressed is that they are now overpriced with a much more competitive marketplace. I poked fun at the comment about German engineering because they are infamous for screwy electronics in other products and the fact the LEDs themselves are made in Korea, not Germany.

Nightlightning sells complete lighting systems and does not require any special effort. No DIY required. No import duty for the buyer. Nothing different than buying anything else on the Internet only it cost $15 to ship rather than $7 since its coming airmail from NZ which takes about 4 days - about the same as ground shipping in the US from some places. These complete systems still sell for about $100 cheaper than the equivalent Lupine but the great thing is the flexibility - you have choice on everything - optics, battery source/type/size, built or DYI, etc to suit the widest range of needs possible.

As I mentioned the other comparable competitors range from 30-40% cheaper which is clearly significantly less.

Nightlightning is just as consistent as Lupine. They've had the same options for their lights from halogen to LED and they've been around for about a decade so I don't really see how you can claim one company is more consistent. There is no lapse of quality in either.

My comment about Canadian cells has to do with the high quality lion cells they use in the batteries they sell. They aren't cheap/questionable random cells from asia like the rest of the market and it pushes the pricing of their Lion options up. Really though Lion systems from batteryspace are still more than adequate. The only battery system I had problems with was a NiMH system from nightrider with a bum smartcharge system.

You said they weren't competitive on advertising, not me. Being the best advertiser means nothing:



> Or maybe they´re falling short in advertising, who knows.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

*Canadian batteries???*

There have been a few mentions of those good canadian batteries here... Now, as a Canadian myself, is there a way to get hold (locally) of these "great" batteries? Who sells them? What brand are they?

Thanks for the info!

Johnnydrz


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Johnnydrz said:


> There have been a few mentions of those good canadian batteries here... Now, as a Canadian myself, is there a way to get hold (locally) of these "great" batteries? Who sells them? What brand are they?
> 
> Thanks for the info!
> 
> Johnnydrz


You'd have to email them (I don't own my anymore) but honestly I doubt there is significant difference in the performance they all use similar chemistry with similar use life cycle but definitely a higher cost like products made in North America and the EU. As long as your battery has a proper protection circuit and a good smart charger you should be good. Now if we were talking one of the new battery chemistry like LiFePO4 or maybe even the new portable fuel cells then I'd be interested. Maybe a much smaller version of something like this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27055776/


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

Soooo, if I have info to let people know about new Lupine products, am I going to get flamed?


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

*Sarcasm ???*

ehhhh..... big news ????

Johnnydrz


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

This is taking toooooo looooong ..................


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

[email protected] said:


> Soooo, if I have info to let people know about new Lupine products, am I going to get flamed?


I know I'd be very interested in hearing (reading) about any Lupine updates.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

PUBCRAWL said:


> I know I'd be very interested in hearing (reading) about any Lupine updates.


Agreed. That's why this thread was created in the first place. :thumbsup:


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> Agreed. That's why this thread was created in the first place. :thumbsup:


I agree... :thumbsup:


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

syadasti said:


> I emailed them and asked if they made any changes since that review.


This may be offtopic here, but: CRC will have the Niteflux Max for GBP 170, due in stock at the end of October / early November. Well, I think that at this price this light is a steal, especially in Europe, where the typical pricing is 1 USD = 1 EUR (or you can pay customs and other taxes if you buy from overseas).

Btw. what is more annoying is that it works in the same way vice versa: if you check the Lupine lights they cost much less in the US compared to the EU (which is odd, because that's where they are made...). So living and riding in the EU sucks, in the US not so much, but if I had a choice I'd move to Australia or NZ for sure... it must be biking and nightriding heaven there!

The one exception seems to be the L&M Seca, which costs LESS at CRC than overseas. How can it be? This is stupid.


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

radirpok said:


> So living and riding in the EU sucks...


I respectfully disagree on the "sucking" part....but yeah it gets expensive if one doesn't search for good deals


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

crisillo said:


> I respectfully disagree on the "sucking" part....but yeah it gets expensive if one doesn't search for good deals


 
The aussie and kiwi dollars are in free fall so the already fantastic downunder lights from Nightlightning/Ayup/HIDtech are become better value every day.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

BikeSATORI said:


> Agreed. That's why this thread was created in the first place. :thumbsup:


*YES*
Exactly... 
If you don't want to read about these updates here perhaps start your own "I don't think Lupine lights are as good as what those others who paid too much for them think even though I've never actually owned or even used one before" thread... 

I think most of us came to this thread to read about the new updates not to belittle those who chose to purchase them and in turn recommend them to others.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

I do have some news, but will just start a new thread.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

[email protected] said:


> Soooo, if I have info to let people know about new Lupine products, am I going to get flamed?


Let's hope not!

Todd, your input into the lighting forums is much appreciated. Keep it up!


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## klean (Dec 9, 2005)

Norways top MTB site terrengsykkel.no has just published a good lighttest. Ive been following this thread quietly, but I tought the results mey be welcome to the debate.
The test include most relevant lights like bigger sisters Betty and Wima. Hopes Vision4, Seca 700 and so on.

My translation of some of the conclutions regarding the Tesla:

"The light power it self doesnt outclass the closest competition, all the same, spontanious enthousiastic laughter burst out whithin the testcrew when the tiny light was fired up as one of the evenings last contenders."

"Everyone judged the light to clearely the most comfortable to orientate in. The spread was superior, all the way inn to the front wheel and straight out to the sides. With the evenly distributed light throughout the field of wiew it was far easier to seek around for lines and such."

The stronger lit competators in general was scored down for being blindingly bright centrally, leaving the perifery dark.

Link to images, and Norwegian writeup:
http://terrengsykkel.no/index.php?id=2440

I ordered mine 2 weeks ago, and cant wait. Monday, I hope! :thumbsup:


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Thanks klean, there is a lot in that link.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

klean said:


> Norways top MTB site terrengsykkel.no has just published a good lighttest. Ive been following this thread quietly, but I tought the results mey be welcome to the debate.
> The test include most relevant lights like bigger sisters Betty and Wima. Hopes Vision4, Seca 700 and so on.
> 
> My translation of some of the conclutions regarding the Tesla:
> ...


Thanks for the posting, just wish I could read the review.


I'm not sure what the heck happened with the Betty beamshot in this article but there is not way in hell the Wilma or Tesla is brighter like the photos indicate. Looks almost like the Betty could have been set on 10% power level when the picture was taken.

*
Tesla*








*Wilma*








*Betty*


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

As I suspected, the Tesla's beam pattern looks really good. Using a reflector certainly helps tune the beam pattern to provide way more spill.

This is like the pattern of the ARC, only brighter and smoother.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

how many cells is in the battery

Is a handle bar mount included with the kit?


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

I wonder.... the Tesla is supposed to be 13 degrees so why it looks wider than Wilma (15 degrees)


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

the stock light set can't fit on carbon handle bar. It is too bad that lupine forces users to buy the adapter for handle bar.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

Picard said:


> the stock light set can't fit on carbon handle bar. It is too bad that lupine forces users to buy the adapter for handle bar.


Are you referring to the oversized bar mount?
If so, ya I totally agree, it *should* come with the lightset, whats the cost of a rubber o ring and a hunk of plastic worth...


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The LED lens may have a 13 or 15 degree spread. However, the Tesla has a proper reflector as well and is tuned to provide a lot of extra peripheral light like the Light & Motion ARC. I have the Wilma and used to have the ARC (a buddy still does). Once I get the Tesla, I can compare all three very quickly. I can probably find a Seca as well but the Dinottes are not that popular here. A friend has the 600L but nobody is looking at the 800L right now.

I was one of the first ones who clamored for more peripheral light since I was so used to the ARC's spill light. I am really glad that Lupine has added a light with that option for those who want the HID/ARC style of beam pattern with a focused main beam but a weaker yet extremely wide peripheral beam. It helps some riders (esp ones with one light)a lot with orientation.



BBW said:


> I wonder.... the Tesla is supposed to be 13 degrees so why it looks wider than Wilma (15 degrees)


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## klean (Dec 9, 2005)

PUBCRAWL said:


> I'm not sure what the heck happened with the Betty beamshot in this article but there is not way in hell the Wilma or Tesla is brighter like the photos indicate. Looks almost like the Betty could have been set on 10% power level when the picture was taken.


The Betty image, was taken a couple of days later, despite efforts to do everything equal, reproducing beamshots is a difficoult sport  The Betty used in the test, was an 07 which may account for some lack of power? 
However the test-crews repport is the most important bit. And like I said, the Betty is the most powerfull, but next to the Tesla it appears so bright in the centre, that the perifrery appears dark, and therefore the overall light from the Tesla is preffered for real-life riding.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

klean said:


> The Betty image, was taken a couple of days later, despite efforts to do everything equal, reproducing beamshots is a difficoult sport  The Betty used in the test, was an 07 which may account for some lack of power?
> However the test-crews repport is the most important bit. And like I said, the Betty is the most powerfull, but next to the Tesla it appears so bright in the centre, that the perifrery appears dark, and therefore the overall light from the Tesla is preffered for real-life riding.


I ride with a 830 Lumen Wilma and a 1400 Lumen Betty.
There is no hot spot with a Betty and the spill is very wide and almost makes the Wilma seem spotty.

I can appreciate the difficulty in reproducing beamshots but those photos do not do the Betty any justice at all, they make it look like the lesser light in the Lupine line.


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## eldiablo (Feb 23, 2005)

has anyone actually ridden with a tesla yet? I know they are now shipping in the UK, just wonder how they compare with wilmas (and if wilmas are worth the extra £££ or $$$!)

Geoman / [email protected], have you got stock in yet, and if so what do you think of them?


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

eldiablo said:


> has anyone actually ridden with a tesla yet? I know they are now shipping in the UK, just wonder how they compare with wilmas (and if wilmas are worth the extra £££ or $$$!)
> 
> Geoman / [email protected], have you got stock in yet, and if so what do you think of them?


We have not received our initial Tesla 4 order (yet) but have been advised that we should be able to start shipping to GeoMan Gear customers within 10 to 14 days. Can't wait!


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

PUBCRAWL said:


> I ride with a 830 Lumen Wilma and a 1400 Lumen Betty.
> There is no hot spot with a Betty and the spill is very wide and almost makes the Wilma seem spotty.


Agreed. I presently ride with the Betty (7) too (1,500 lumens). The Betty beam pattern is excellent, IMHO.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

So I rode with a Proto Tesla last wed. 10-15, and the beam is pretty unique. It has a lot of hid qualities, but with out the hot spots or halo's or black spots, that a lot of hid's have.

I rode with this light on my helmet, and a Betty on the bars. Turned off the Betty for most of the ride to test the Tesla. I only turned on the Betty for the descents, mainly because we were riding our dh trails...

Oh and it's a Hexagon reflector, Beam angle 13°...

Hardly even noticed the Tesla on my helmet, 100g...


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## Locotiki (Feb 25, 2005)

Just got back from my first ride with my new Wilma5. WOW! Blows away my L&M Arc and made a JET HID look pretty silly as well. 
While the pattern is more of a spot than my ARC the overall brightness of the Wilma more than makes up for it. Very impressed. Sorry I don't do beam shots.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

Locotiki said:


> Just got back from my first ride with my new Wilma5. WOW! Blows away my L&M Arc and made a JET HID look pretty silly as well.
> While the pattern is more of a spot than my ARC the overall brightness of the Wilma more than makes up for it. Very impressed. Sorry I don't do beam shots.


I agree... Wilma (I have the 7) makes a perfect helmet light IMO! I'm liking mine a lot so far! :thumbsup:

Sound to me like the new Tesla would make an excellent bar companion for the Wilma, with it's better spread, but less penetration, it would compliment the Wilma characteristics perfectly. Even though the Tesla is super light and small, I would still keep the Wilma on the head, and put the Tesla on bar.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

To me the new Wilma looks wider with more spread, and the Tesla has more spot and penetration...

Wilma bars, Tesla helmet...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> To me the new Wilma looks wider with more spread, and the Tesla has more spot and penetration...
> 
> Wilma bars, Tesla helmet...


hmmmm... ok.
Realize that I'm only going by photos of the Tesla.... which seem to dump MUCH more light to the ground and periphery by the front tire, in these photos... but that is all I can go by on that particular light with no first-hand experience.

I have a brand new Wilma 7, and I would not call it wide with spread. Decent spread, but more of a spot than flood in my book. But that's just from my experience (maybe I ride too much with other guys who have Seca 700's and what not. :skep: now that one has spread).


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

I understand that you're basing it off those photo's, that don't really look accurate. I'm just stating my first hand opinion. But, to each is own.


Basically I'm just trying to say the "new Wilma" has a little more spread then the previous version. And the Tesla has more of a spot then the Wilma.

Thats just my take after using them.


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## BlueMountain (Nov 8, 2006)

Todd, does the Tesla have more peripheral light though? It appears to have a narrower spot than the Wilma but it also appears to have more peripheral light even though the spill area is dimmer than the main spot. That is how the L&M ARC was/is. It has the main spot but a significant amount of peripheral light surrounding the spot.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

[email protected] said:


> I understand that you're basing it off those photo's, that don't really look accurate. I'm just stating my first hand opinion. But, to each is own.
> 
> Basically I'm just trying to say the "new Wilma" has a little more spread then the previous version. And the Tesla has more of a spot then the Wilma.
> 
> Thats just my take after using them.


I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down. 
First hand experience is better than photos.  I'll take your word for it on the Tesla.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

BikeSATORI said:


> I'm pickin' up what you're layin' down.
> First hand experience is better than photos.  I'll take your word for it on the Tesla.


Why don't you contact an independent source that has first hand experience. They have the most validity:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=461404


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

syadasti said:


> Why don't you contact an independent source that has first hand experience. They have the most validity:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=461404


??
Thanks, that link was already posted above though... They were the photos I was referring to.
I'm not really in the market for a Tesla at the moment, I've got more than enough lights right now. Just simply comparing and stating my opinions. More so just for other people reading to hopefully be able to get an idea of where the Tesla fits into the Lupine line-up, versus the Wilma 7, which I do have my own experience with.


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

BlueMountain said:


> Todd, does the Tesla have more peripheral light though? It appears to have a narrower spot than the Wilma but it also appears to have more peripheral light even though the spill area is dimmer than the main spot. That is how the L&M ARC was/is. It has the main spot but a significant amount of peripheral light surrounding the spot.


The Tesla does have a more "narrower" beam then Wilma, and there is a significant amount of spill. I do think the Tesla's beam pattern looks a lot like a HID beam pattern. With the amount of Lumens the Tesla has, I bet it looks a lot like an Arc. I don't ride with anyone that has an Arc to directly compare though... Anyone with an Arc in PA wanna come ride...?

I'm going out to ride tonite with a Tesla on my helmet


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## BlueMountain (Nov 8, 2006)

The ARC, as others have mentioned, had the best peripheral light of any HID I have used/seen/heard of. The main spot of a couple of other HID lights were slightly brighter/wider but the peripheral beam of the ARC was the best. If the Tesla beam is designed the same way as the ARC, I am looking forward to seeing it in person.


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## greenmacheen (Apr 8, 2004)

I'm throwing down on a Tesla. Simple, and throws a sick beam from what I can see. Pics worth a thousand words.


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## spawn350 (Oct 14, 2008)

*Tesla and Wilma*

I bought a Tesla and Wilma which should be here tomorrow. I will post my own beamshots as soon as they arrive. I had intended to use the Tesla on the bar and Wilma on the helmet, but I will have to see the beam patterns now to make a decision.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

spawn350 said:


> I bought a Tesla and Wilma which should be here tomorrow. I will post my own beamshots as soon as they arrive. I had intended to use the Tesla on the bar and Wilma on the helmet, but I will have to see the beam patterns now to make a decision.


Sweet!! That should be a good combo.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Sweet!! That should be a good combo.


That's the pictures that I'm waiting for  :thumbsup:


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## spawn350 (Oct 14, 2008)

*Wilma vs Tesla Pictures tell you nothing*

All,

So I got my Wilma 5 and Tesla 4 today. I don't need to go on and on about boxes and mounts and such, though you should be advised that you cannot run them on oversize bars out of the box.

Beams: The Wilma has a similar beam pattern to an Exposure Maxx-D, though the beam is brighter. It seems to be a little wider beam than a Dinotte 800L, but doesn't seem quite as bright overall. Honestly, in practice, I don't think you would see any differently with any of those three lights. Of note, the Exposure has a yellowish light in 3 models that I saw it in (Maxx-D, Enduro, Joystick). All in all, the Wilma is bright, but it is nothing super special. The pictures do not show enough of a variance to warrant posting. Obviously, for the $$ the Dinotte is the best bet.

The Tesla is another story. The Tesla has a very bright hot spot with an IMMENSE amount of spill. Pictures are worthless to help you see what I mean. I tried several times and they all looked similar to what you already see posted, when in reality it looks much different. Furthermore, the light has tremendous throw. It has a farther throw than any light I have ever seen. Also, it got about half as hot as the Wilma in the same amount of time. Also of note, I cannot see a tangible difference in light color for the Wilma or the Tesla as the pictures indicated.

If I had to pick just one of the two lights to use it would be the Tesla hands down. I do think that in my situation the Tesla will make the better helmet light and the Wilma the better bar light.

If anyone in the California Bay Area has a Seca 700/400 I would be interested to see a real life comparison of these 4 lights. My bet is that the perfect combo would be a Tesla on helmet and a Seca 700 on the bars.

Hope this info is helpful.


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## BOHICA (May 13, 2005)

Thanks a lot for your review of the Tesla! One question: Is it reasonable to use this light exclusively for cross country night riding (no nasty technical downhilling) mounted on a helmet?


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The Tesla, in my opinion, would be a fantastic one-light setup for any terrain. It would be better than almost any light if you just want to run one light, due to its bright spot and significant peripheral beam. I'll ride a pretty fast trail XC-ish tomorrow with it and first use the Tesla only on the helmet and then only the Wilma on the helmet and then use both while swapping bar/helmet positions.

I'm sure others will soon be doing this as well. It will be interesting to see whether opinions are consistent or differing.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

spawn350 said:


> I do think that in my situation the Tesla will make the better helmet light and the Wilma the better bar light.


What do you think about Tesla on the bars due to its spill and Wilma on the helmet??


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## spawn350 (Oct 14, 2008)

BBW: I tried it both ways and I think the Tesla on the helmet is still the best way to go simply because of the further throw. I would actually like to try twin Teslas.

Again, I would also like to see a Seca 700 in real life too. From what I hear, that is the ultimate stand-alone light.


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## greenmacheen (Apr 8, 2004)

I posted a quick "first ride Tesla". The light is simple and it works beyond my expectation. I was really able to-> just go out and ride w/o thinking about it. Night/Dawn riding is no longer a factor using this.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Is the 35% (mid) setting any good? I think it would be a little dim but I don't know


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

The Tesla has so much peripheral spill that you can see stuff to the side without turning your head or even your eyes, to a certain extent. The Wilma has really good reach but the spot of the Tela punches out a little further and you can focus in on objects, trail features, and bedded-down animals.

It is an amazing light- all this with one LED. It is very similar to the ARC but has a much warmer light, is brighter, and may even have brighter spill. It is more than the ARC is and better in every respect. I'll be able to take pics with the ARC on Sat night but yeah, it trumps the ARC mainly due to the incredibly well-designed reflector. That is what made the ARC so good too- that dimpled reflector. The Tesla can be one light for most riders and on the helmet, you can hardly feel the weight.

Even though it has such a wide beam, I prefer it on the helmet. It is super light and has such nice reach that I was picking up stuff while looking around and still had light in front of me (the spill/peripheral light) and you can get away with just the Tesla mounted on the helmet. What a ride- yes BRUTALLY windy and cold- so windy that I was seriously having trouble breathing. I even had to unzip my jersey and undo my helmet strap and catch some breaths by stopping and turning away. 

I had to get enough time on the Wilma and Tesla though. As one light, the Tesla is practically impossible to beat. The Wilma has an evenly diffused light beam but the Tesla has so much reach and so much spill that as one light, it outpunches the Wilma. With two Wilmas, the story may change but man, I love the Tesla for the helmet.

Unless the Seca beam is significantly better than the ARC, it will not come close to beating the Tesla. Weight of 100 grams, and this much light and spill from one LED is pretty stunning. I am really impressed. This one will unseat the ARC as a one-light setup and a two-light setup. I would love to compare light beams of the Seca and Tesla but the Tesla is already ahead with its low weight, small size, and other features.

Pics by Sunday- Tesla, Wilma, Betty, 600L, ARC, and possibly the Jet Phantom. I'm broke- someone else compare the Seca to the Tesla


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

I've said it before but I will say it again after seeing flyers pics and reading his posts. The Tesla is going to be a popular bike light!


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

You're on the money, MaximusHQ. Many used the ARC as just one light (myself included) because it had the spot with good reach and the amazing amount of spill....didn't absolutely have to have the bar light. Same here- if you want just one light, go for the Tesla. If you want two, the Wilma/Tesla or Betty/Tesla are unbeatable. The Betty just throws an insane amount of light down, of course but in that wide even swath and has good reach.

EDIT- I mounted the Wilma, Betty, and Tesla on an oversized bar (31.8) but just had to stretch the band a bit more than on my regular bar. Zero movement while riding but easy to adjust. The mount they come with will fit oversize bars.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> _or am I investing in a part of my bike that may last 10, 20 years or more?_
> 
> 10 or 20 years, are you serious, *in 3years they'll be out of date, heavy and under powered compared to whats around and the batterys and charger will likely give up*.
> 
> ...


Nope, don't agree with the bold statement.
I have been running my HID Lumicycle for 6 years now, and it hasn't developed one single flaw, there have been no things needing replacement and it hangs on the charger all year long (as recommended by Lumicycle) 
So I believe I can say it's been worth every last penny it costs (around 350 pounds) 
Furthermore it has saved my life at numerous occasions - because I saw the traps the terrain was holding in store for me.:thumbsup:

I am in the market for a seperate lightweight helmet light and the Tesla has caught my attention.
I'm ordering one this weekend directly at Lupine


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## DGB (Sep 8, 2007)

@Flyer: Thanks for the review of the Tesla and the pics in this and other posts. I ordered mine direct from Lupine the other day and it's now on its way.   
It'll be my only light and I'm mounting it on the helmet. Really looking forward to it now :thumbsup:


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Been riding with the Tesla 4 for a couple of weeks now. It is a great little light with a strong central beam pattern with plenty of spill.

I also added a Betty 7 to my bar (favoring the Tesla for the helmet). The setup is very bright. 

The bar-mounted Betty fills close-in whereas the Tesla is great for the helmet, showing the way around corners and climbs, beyond where the Betty is focusing its efforts... 

Love it!


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

DGB said:


> @Flyer: Thanks for the review of the Tesla and the pics in this and other posts. I ordered mine direct from Lupine the other day and it's now on its way.
> It'll be my only light and I'm mounting it on the helmet. Really looking forward to it now :thumbsup:


Have you heard about this:
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3815862&t=3815862

eg. no more helmet mounts & extension cables come with stock Lupines...
If this is true then it is a joke... can anyone confirm this? I know most people around here are in the US, maybe there is a bias towards EU customers... I don't know but I will be really pissed off if I will have to buy a helmet mount separately (for a $500 light... WTF?)...


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> Nope, don't agree with the bold statement.
> I have been running my HID Lumicycle for 6 years now, and it hasn't developed one single flaw, there have been no things needing replacement and it hangs on the charger all year long (as recommended by Lumicycle)
> So I believe I can say it's been worth every last penny it costs (around 350 pounds)
> Furthermore it has saved my life at numerous occasions - because I saw the traps the terrain was holding in store for me.:thumbsup:
> ...


I ran with a similar HID system £300's worth barely gotten 18months outta it, and 2 mates with Lumi HID's have had nothing but trouble with there, I'd put my MC-E torch up against the Tesla for output anyday, Tesla wins on colour though.


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## DGB (Sep 8, 2007)

radirpok said:


> Have you heard about this:
> http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3815862&t=3815862
> 
> eg. no more helmet mounts & extension cables come with stock Lupines...
> If this is true then it is a joke... can anyone confirm this? I know most people around here are in the US, maybe there is a bias towards EU customers... I don't know but I will be really pissed off if I will have to buy a helmet mount separately (for a $500 light... WTF?)...


Read about someone from the UK enquiring on Lupine's own forum about what was included. It seems that in the UK (please correct me if I'm wrong), you *DON'T* get the helmet mount (not sure about the extension cable) as standard, yet Lupine supply it as standard if bought from them direct. :nono: 
I think the UK distributor might be having a laugh.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Mate bought from Lupine direct and didn't get the helmet mount, I used that for ages with my HID's, £20 or something for abit of metal, 2 straps and some foam.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

DGB said:


> @Flyer: Thanks for the review of the Tesla and the pics in this and other posts. I ordered mine direct from Lupine the other day and it's now on its way.
> It'll be my only light and I'm mounting it on the helmet. Really looking forward to it now :thumbsup:


You might consider taking a backup light with you, depending on where you go for biking.. when your prime light fails.. darkness beckons


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> I ran with a similar HID system £300's worth barely gotten 18months outta it, and 2 mates with Lumi HID's have had nothing but trouble with there, I'd put my MC-E torch up against the Tesla for output anyday, Tesla wins on colour though.


Well, 
tough luck with the Lumi's.. so far so good at my end of the bulb..


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## DGB (Sep 8, 2007)

Well, I'll let you know early next week when I get mine if they came with it.:eekster:

According to this below, it should

http://s235041100.online.de/shop/article_i404/Tesla-4.html?shop_param=cid=111&aid=i404&


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Thats the set I've ordered as well.. So we'll see.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> You might consider taking a backup light with you, depending on where you go for biking.. when your prime light fails.. darkness beckons


I ALWAYS have Helmet light + Bar light on for descents, I had my HID knock off a few times at speed plunged into instant darkness, not fun!!


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Turveyd said:


> I ALWAYS have Helmet light + Bar light on for descents, I had my HID knock off a few times at speed plunged into instant darkness, not fun!!


Wasn't talking to you directly .. but to DGB who talked about only taking a tesla out.
But you are right, you should have at least one backup light to get you into lighted areas.

You want fun?? try riding without light with the full moon out..


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## ToddN (Feb 2, 2007)

radirpok said:


> Have you heard about this:
> http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/read.php?f=2&i=3815862&t=3815862
> 
> eg. no more helmet mounts & extension cables come with stock Lupines...
> If this is true then it is a joke... can anyone confirm this? I know most people around here are in the US, maybe there is a bias towards EU customers... I don't know but I will be really pissed off if I will have to buy a helmet mount separately (for a $500 light... WTF?)...


All Lupine kits sold in North America come with everything listed in the kit. Meaning, everything sold in North America comes with helmet mount, extension cable etc.

Just check the North American distributor's website gretnabikes.com. What is pictured and listed as a kit is what you get...


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Thanks Todd, that's a straight answer.
Meanwhile Stefan from Lupine cleared things up on their own forum:
http://www.lupine.de/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?lang=de&f=7&t=1970
I'm so happy I'm not from the UK... ;-)


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

Yep, all the LUPINE kits we sell (North America) have the helmet mount and extension included... The Tesla 4 does not have the car charger which is the only omission from what you'd get with the Wilma's and Betty's.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

New Tesla available:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1227008280995.html


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

syadasti said:


> New Tesla available:
> 
> http://www.nvidia.com/object/io_1227008280995.html


go multicore GPUs! :thumbsup:


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Got my Tesla 4 delivered as well today. Superb craftmanship. With 3 intensity positions and an emergency flash function it caters for most .
I installed the helmet mount, read the manual and am charging the battery while waiting for a dry evening to take it out.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

You riding tonight then?

That Tesla 4 is sweet. I ride with one and love it.


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## dstedman (Oct 22, 2008)

It doesn't have to be dry to ride with it. 

I just got mine today, too. Haven't tried it out, but it's got the top notch Lupine craftmanship, that is for sure!

Thanks, Geoman!


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Hey Geoman I received mine!!! you rock (and USPS is pain in the @ss) 
Going to do a mini ride around and post reviews:thumbsup:

Ok I'm ready to do my Tesla review...

As I opened the box I saw what I saw when I got my Wilma: amazing craftmanship and quality. I said again WOW
I used my other battery to turn it on while charging the new one.. it was during the day and to tell you the truth I was not very impressed on the ceilling of my room but I heard the coments of Flyer to try it out and decide to wait until the night to draw conclusions.

The night came, I turn it on from my balcony to the outside...:eekster: this thing throws!!!

I went out for a quick spin.....:eekster: :eekster: :eekster: 
* if you only want 1 light, the Tesla is your light*
If you have a handlebar light and the Tesla in the head, great.

The Tesla is as wide as 6 highway car lines and it throws farther than the Wilma 830 lum.
I went up to 30 miles/hour on a dowhill and I was not going to override this light:nono:

I could ride at slow pace (climbing) very comfortable at the lowest setting (10%)

Mid setting (35%) was infact something that was worrying on how "useable" would be.... answer: plenty! really I don't know how to explain it but it has enough throw and spill.

Now, on high: this thing is crazy

So I come from a place with lots of mountains and sometimes we used to climb for 4 hours on granny gear and then a 90 minute downhill very fast...
With the Tesla I would had been able to climb without problem on medium for 4 hours, chill out for a fwew hours on low and then hit the downhill at full speed with enough juice left: THAT IS A GOOD LIGHT:thumbsup:

Go LUPINE!!!


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## spawn350 (Oct 14, 2008)

BBW said:


> Hey Geoman I received mine!!! you rock (and USPS is pain in the @ss)
> Going to do a mini ride around and post reviews:thumbsup:
> 
> Ok I'm ready to do my Tesla review...
> ...


BBW - I had been holding off on a second Tesla since I made the statement in another thread that if you didn't like it I would buy it from you. I am gonna guess the above means you like it so I can go ahead and place my order.

Before, Lupine was a premium brand that you paid extra for, although you were guaranteed a quality product. Now I think the Tesla gives amazing bang for the buck and would compete dollar for dollar well with lights from other brands.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Now you know what I know and why I told you to just have faith and get the Tesla. 




BBW said:


> Hey Geoman I received mine!!! you rock (and USPS is pain in the @ss)
> Going to do a mini ride around and post reviews:thumbsup:
> 
> Ok I'm ready to do my Tesla review...
> ...


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

spawn350 said:


> BBW - I had been holding off on a second Tesla since I made the statement in another thread that if you didn't like it I would buy it from you. I am gonna guess the above means you like it so I can go ahead and place my order.
> 
> Before, Lupine was a premium brand that you paid extra for, although you were guaranteed a quality product. Now I think the Tesla gives amazing bang for the buck and would compete dollar for dollar well with lights from other brands.


hahaha who told you that I was going to sell it to you?, if I didn't like it I was going to get a second Wilma 
I agree with the competitiveness aspect, I always defend DiNotte for example amazing bang for the buck but comparing a 600L that is 399$ for what you can pay for the Tesla, is nothing but to be able to ride the Bugatti Veyron of lights


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## PimpinD (May 29, 2008)

god those likes look amazing, really make my Cygolike Rover II look like crap =(


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

Flyer said:


> Now you know what I know and why I told you to just have faith and get the Tesla.


you have had the same amazing lights that I have had (Jetlite, ARC) so I think we like the same light colors and beam patterns + quality. I listen to the people that can point me in the right direction:thumbsup: 

thanks again to you and Geoman!!

Whohoooo

Oh BTW I forgot to mention in my review, if somebody think that the little annoying things in the halo will bother you... they didn't to me, you don't notice them except if you pay close attention. Good to go:thumbsup:


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## eldiablo (Feb 23, 2005)

so a tesla on the bars with some ayups (240-300 lumens i think) would make a good combination? I'm looking to get some more light and upgrade from my ayups by swapping the bar one for a brighter tesla.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

Thanks for all the info and reviews guys. I wondered about the 35% settings myself, but it seems it is enough to be usable. I find myself running my Wilma at 60% more often than not on the helmet and the Betty at 40% on the bars. This gives me a good amount of light and good run time. Of course if needed I go to full power for a bit then dim down when I want. If I stop for a bit I dim to the lower. I set Wilma to be 3 step dimming percentages at 100/60/12. I set Betty to 3 step at 100/40/5. The lower dimming settings can still be quite useful especially if I use both lights together at low.


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

BBW said:


> you have had the same amazing lights that I have had (Jetlite, ARC) so I think we like the same light colors and beam patterns + quality. I listen to the people that can point me in the right direction:thumbsup:
> 
> thanks again to you and Geoman!!
> 
> ...


I rode again last night with the Tesla/Betty combo. The dyed in the wool HID'ers I ride with have begun to reconsider their positions, frankly. LED is so much more efficient and maleable. My combo can be, by far, the brightest out there when I'm riding so I find I have to be careful not to create too much shadow for the rider in front of me. Dimming is important for a variety of reasons when you have a bright setup. 1,500 + 700 lumens is bright. Very bright.

The Tesla has a concentrated center beam pattern that is equally as bright at the Betty's, IMHO. The Betty has a much larger spread which diffuses its lumens over a much larger area - good for when you are feeling your way through a rocky downhill or a slower climb. I find myself using the Betty on the bar exclusively. I have the Tesla mounted on my helmet so it projects just above the Betty's "closer in" light pattern. This combo works great.


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## DGB (Sep 8, 2007)

Well my Tesla is here.   What has amazed me, is the size of the head and the battery - they're tiny  
The battery is full-charged according to the manual and the lack of a lit LED on the charger (it came that way). :thumbsup: 

In about 45mins, I'll be out on the trail :rockon:


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

eldiablo said:


> so a tesla on the bars with some ayups (240-300 lumens i think) would make a good combination? I'm looking to get some more light and upgrade from my ayups by swapping the bar one for a brighter tesla.


I would have to try it on the handlebar but so far I like it on the helmet. I will play more and post a feedback


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

dstedman said:


> It doesn't have to be dry to ride with it.
> 
> I just got mine today, too. Haven't tried it out, but it's got the top notch Lupine craftmanship, that is for sure!
> 
> Thanks, Geoman!


Not for the light I agree , but *I *prefer it dry.. I have been soaked too many times.. they predict snow this weekend, hope it stays colder :thumbsup:


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

DGB said:


> Well my Tesla is here.   What has amazed me, is the size of the head and the battery - they're tiny
> The battery is full-charged according to the manual and the lack of a lit LED on the charger (it came that way). :thumbsup:
> 
> In about 45mins, I'll be out on the trail :rockon:


Charge it to be sure :skep: 
. I put mine on the charger and it took 2 hours for the charging light to go out.


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## loamranger (Oct 26, 2006)

Anybody tried a double Tesla?


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

ryates said:


> Anybody tried a double Tesla?


I wanted to... but then I missed the guy with the other Tesla last week. Maybe this week I'll catch him ;-)
I don't know how that would work though... I wanted to run the Tesla on the helmet with the 600L on the bar, but I like it much more the other way around... it is an excellent bar light, and - surprisingly - the 600L is an excellent helmet light. I wanted to get a Wilma instead of the 600L but now I'm not sure that I need it - the expenses would not justify the gains I'm afraid.
But YMMV - I've never been a fan of tight spot helmet lights - while others are raving about it. It's so much easier _not_ to concentrate on where to aim that spot - if that's not a problem for you, dual-Tesla could work nicely.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Took out the Tesla along with my Lumicycle 20W halogen during a road ride tonight.
After 2 hours the 20W Lumi had drawn its battery - which after 6 years still delivers its claimed time - and I switched on the Tesla 
Even at its lowest stand - 1.5W - it provided me with more than enough bright white light to be able to ride at good speeds. I made some comparison pics but my mobile isn't exactly made for photographing at night.
Even at its lowest stand - it should burn a whopping 24hrs in 1.5W mode - some automobilists were giving me signals they were blinded. Obviously with its 13 degree angle and bright beam the Tesla 4 is better suited for offroad riding. Mounting it on the helmet proved to be very comfortable, with its light weight you hardly notice the lighthead ,and the small battery goes nicely into the backpack or even a pocket of your jacket.
One of these nights I will take along a better camera to do some decent shots.
Furthermore I will have a new Lumicycle LEDSYSTEM3 spot (6 degrees) delivered next week, which will accompany my HID Halide during my road rides. I will take some pics of that one too


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Big Bad Wolf said:


> I made some comparison pics but my mobile isn't exactly made for photographing at night.


*20W Halogen*









*20W Halogen + 1.5W Tesla*









*20W Halogen + 4W Tesla*









*20W Halogen + 12W Tesla*









better pics one of these nights


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, I don't think I'd dig two bright spots. I'm using the Betty on the bar and the Tesla on the helmet. I have used the Wilma on the bar once and it works well too. If my gf doesn't get into night riding pronto, I'm selling the Wilma for a roof box and some other camping gear. Then when she asks what happened to "her light", I'll pretend I only had two lights to begin with and act insulted.


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Perhaps a combination of a 13degree wide beam and a 6-9 degree spot is the best. The spot goes on the bar, and the flood on your helmet.
I noticed with the tesla that I can read my instruments (gps) on the bar perfectly in the halo.
As you can see in the pics , the 20W halogen is outlit even with the 1.5W tesla mode, pretty impressive I would say.


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## EFMax (Aug 20, 2008)

The LUPINE's are expensive, but an awful lot of the costs are in the batteries and charging system.

In the UK, you can purchase the lights units by themself, so to the charger and the micro switch/charger bit.. this leaves it up to you to source batteries.

I have a WILMA 8 Kit, which came with the bottle and has inside 8x 18650 batteries wired to show 7.4v @ 9Ah.. But I have successfully added another set of batteries and wired this in parallel to give me 18Ah.. BUT.. these batteries have been sourced from old laptops which are no longer working but the batteries are fine.

Actually my local computer repair shop gave me 40x Panasonic 3.7v 18650 batteries of which I sourced the best (3.8v+) and also made up a battery pack for my 2nd light unit.

The point here is those 40 batteries were free (just cos I was cheeky and asked for them - they were only gonna be recycled).

The charging units on the Lupine cope very well and in 6 months of use with a charge of just once a week as I ride with my lights on 24/7 and every day, they have been ZERO problems with charging.

The Switch gear on the light units take care of discharge and all the comments about LI-Ion batteries being this or that are just not worth the scare factor.. obviously they have to be treated with respect and protected batteries are the choice over non protection.. but the point is these are free and in very good working order and dramatically reduce the cost.. those same batteries, if sourced in the UK would have cost me £300 at least and that is buying them cheap.. makers like Lupine are gonna add their markup and tell you stuff like there batteries are special and made just for them... (a 3.7v 2.6Ah battery is a 3.7v 2,6Ah battery)

I would recommend that people buy the Lupine with the very smallest battery available, get the kit they need and then upgrade the batteries they have like I have.. The burn time on my WIlma at 100% output is a staggering 12hrs.. and is longer if driven at a lower power.. 

My reasons for the double battery is because I had intended to get two Wilmas but I may well now just buy a Betty and put the Wilma to one side..


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

After my 40 minutes' use of the Tesla last night I hooked it on the charger and the charge light didn't come on.. I guess its still nearly full (I had been using the 1.5W stand)


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

EFMax said:


> The LUPINE's are expensive, but an awful lot of the costs are in the batteries and charging system.
> 
> In the UK, you can purchase the lights units by themself, so to the charger and the micro switch/charger bit.. this leaves it up to you to source batteries.
> 
> ...


To do all that you will have to modify (CUT) the connectors of the Lupine lights. To me that is like buying a Ferrrari and getting cheap Wallmart tires:nono: :nono: 
I would never jeopardize my lupine lights with something homemade, but that's me


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## GEOMAN (May 30, 2006)

You got that right!


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## radirpok (Feb 1, 2006)

Here's an alternative battery source for the non-tinkering types of you:
http://www.open-light.de/en/order.php
It's not that much cheaper, especially outside the EU (though no 19% VAT added - hm, then it is cheaper if you slip by customs...), but hey, it's an option, it requires no DIY, and the more options we have as customers the better for us...


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

This evening I went out for the first real offroad nightride with the Lupine Tesla. Here is a little account excerpted from my blog..
"The Tesla 4 illuminated my path quite nicely on full power - 12W and 700 Lumen. There is a very bright center spot and a nice even halo which still allows good reading of the terrain and of the instruments. Needless to say, I used the helmet mount. Nightriding is always a bit tricky and with these freezing temps - it was -2 degrees C when I set out and around -4 when I arrived back home - I was not taking any risks. The ruts and tracks of numerous motorbikes, cycles and quads were frozen solid, and one of the peculiarities of riding at night is that it is very difficult to judge depth. You only see two dimensions. Also , with the forest floor frozen it was brighter than usual, reflecting the bright spot of the tesla. I can imagine that this light might be too bright to ride in the snow. Obviously I could have switched it into a lesser wattage - I also have 4W and 1.5W positions - but after a bit of getting used to it I got to grips with the way it presented me with the terrain ahead. 
A lot also depends on how high you aim the beam. When the light is mounted on your bike, the beam is always positioned in the same direction as your front wheel, and also the height doesn't vary much. With the beam on your helmet this is another thing. When you are riding uphill, the bright spot is closer to you, when you are riding downhill and standing up, the bright spot is positioned further away, making it imperative that you alternate between looking 10-20metres in front of you and looking 3-4 metres in front of you. The faster you go, the more you need to alternate where you are looking along the trail. Obviously, on well-known trails a single helmet-mounted light is sufficient but on technically challenging and unknown terrain you will need another beam mounted on you handlebar.
After 90 minutes the tesla switched into red mode - this means that the battery is well over half and the electronics switch to a lesser power setting to help you get further with what is left in the battery. The fact that the light goes out for a fraction is a bit freaky but I quickly understood what was happening. In all I think I rode 2h15 without recharging - I already used the low mode a week ago for 30 to 45 minutes - and when I got home I plugged it into the Wiesel charger to fully recharge the battery for the next nightride.
I tried to make some pictures but they still are not doing justice to the strength of the light. The first pic is at 12W strength and the second is in the 4W setting. The pics make me think of the Blair Witch movie."
*4W:*








*12W:*









I need to fiddle some more with my camera settings , the way the beam is presented is way too dark :nono:


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## zander13 (Jan 31, 2009)

When will the Tesla be up in the Review section? Anyway here is my review I submitted to the Cool Tools site...

In the winter I mountain bike 1-2 nights a week after dark on fast technical single track trails. I have built my own lights, and purchased commercially available lighting systems upwards of $400. I have tried halogen, HID, and LED lighting systems. Until now they were all a compromise. I am now using the Lupine Tesla 700 LED light, and I have to say it makes everything I have used up to this point seem like a silly toy. Weighing a mere 102g this light outshines my brightest HID system, is more efficient than my smallest halogen, and has the best construction, controls, and mounting system I have seen in a light. 

At the Interbike show in Vegas I met the US distributor Gretna Bikes, and got to see their new products priced and supported for the US market. I was really amazed, and after saving up, finally was able to buy one of their lights which I am now riding with. The one I bought is the Tesla 700 which is their new 'entry level' light which costs $300 just for the head unit, or $488 for a complete package with battery, charger etc. It is worth every cent. This unit puts out an amazing 700 Lumens in a pattern and color temperature that is perfect for outdoor sports or caving. This is in stark contrast to most LED based products I have tried which have a weirdly tinged light that even when bright enough, do not give good definition. They make larger and brighter lights, but I could not imagine what you would need more light for short of landing a helicopter. 

Since I have a bunch of good batteries and chargers already, I bought just the lamp unit and head-mount. I then used one of my own small (3 oz) 2000Mah LiPoly batteries and made a velcro mount right on my helmet for it. Now I don't even have the usual annoying cord hanging down my back into my pocket, but I still cant get over 8hrs of light on the lowest setting, and more than an hour on the highest before swapping batteries. LED technical lights have truly arrived.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

MaximusHQ said:


> Let me ask you syadasti, since you don't trust anything who owns a Lupine light has to say. Have you used and tested out a Lupine Betty or Wilma light and what did you like and dislike about them? I've been riding trails at night for more than ten years too using a wide variety of lights as well and have not seen anything that matches Lupine quality and attention to detail, and light output.
> 
> *Lupine put out some high powered LED lights before most of the other companies had a clue and then had to play catchup. It's interesting how Nightlighting seems to have a lot of similar features that Lupine has, it's like they basically copied a lot of Lupines features.*
> When I bought my Lupines (Betty and Wilma) almost a year ago there wasn't another LED light on the market that could compare with their output and features. Now looking around at current LED light offerings it seems others have closed the gap, but still seem behind. The price wasn't really a big deal I was more concerned with getting the best and brightest LED bike lights going and it was a no brainer going with Lupine. Now after many many night rides with the lights including snow, rain, and even road salt they still function perfectly and I am still amazed at the light output these two lights put out.


I think there are serious untruths that need to be corrected here.....:madmax:

I am a distributor of Nightlightning Lights and I can assure you that Nightlightning has been building and brought to market high powered LEDlights *before* Lupine did.
Our Endurenz model first hit the market in 2003, and by 2005 we were already running at over 500lumen. In 2006 a step change in LED technology allowed us to introduce the iBlaast which allowed 720lumen LED lights with a full suite of programmable features, *Before Lupine*

Lupine only entered the high power LED scene in 2006, a full 3yrs *AFTER* NightLightning!

It is very clear that Lupine copied Nightlightning in terms of features on offer with Highpower LED based bicycle lights.

Personally I have a lot of respect for Lupine Products as I have been a great supporter of their product in the past. Now they are the competition. They still build fantastic products but to make nonsense statements that they were copied by NightLightning is irresponsible with the truth.:nono:


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## Big Bad Wolf (Jun 4, 2004)

Truth be told. Thanks for correcting this. Both make great products.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaximusHQ
Let me ask you syadasti, since you don't trust anything who owns a Lupine light has to say. Have you used and tested out a Lupine Betty or Wilma light and what did you like and dislike about them? I've been riding trails at night for more than ten years too using a wide variety of lights as well and have not seen anything that matches Lupine quality and attention to detail, and light output. 

Lupine put out some high powered LED lights before most of the other companies had a clue and then had to play catchup. It's interesting how Nightlighting seems to have a lot of similar features that Lupine has, it's like they basically copied a lot of Lupines features.
When I bought my Lupines (Betty and Wilma) almost a year ago there wasn't another LED light on the market that could compare with their output and features. Now looking around at current LED light offerings it seems others have closed the gap, but still seem behind. The price wasn't really a big deal I was more concerned with getting the best and brightest LED bike lights going and it was a no brainer going with Lupine. Now after many many night rides with the lights including snow, rain, and even road salt they still function perfectly and I am still amazed at the light output these two lights put out. 



I think there are serious untruths that need to be corrected here..... 

I am a distributor of Nightlightning Lights and I can assure you that Nightlightning has been building and brought to market high powered LEDlights before Lupine did.
Our Endurenz model first hit the market in 2003, and by 2005 we were already running at over 500lumen. In 2006 a step change in LED technology allowed us to introduce the iBlaast which allowed 720lumen LED lights with a full suite of programmable features, Before Lupine

Lupine only entered the high power LED scene in 2006, a full 3yrs AFTER NightLightning!

It is very clear that Lupine copied Nightlightning in terms of features on offer with Highpower LED based bicycle lights.

Personally I have a lot of respect for Lupine Products as I have been a great supporter of their product in the past. Now they are the competition. They still build fantastic products but to make nonsense statements that they were copied by NightLightning is irresponsible with the truth.


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## MaximusHQ (Aug 6, 2007)

"They still build fantastic products but to make nonsense statements that they were copied by NightLightning is irresponsible with the truth."


You are right Brad, making such a statement was irresponsible and I apologize for posting that.


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

BBW said:


> To do all that you will have to modify (CUT) the connectors of the Lupine lights. To me that is like buying a Ferrrari and getting cheap Wallmart tires:nono: :nono:
> I would never jeopardize my lupine lights with something homemade, but that's me


When I was competing in IASCA car audio competitions I used to see guys like this, commodities traders or lawyers, etc- they'd pay their installer to tune their systems for them, often have them accompany them to the show, follow them around like gurus or somethin'. They believed only their installer knew enough about stereos to win a trophy- when the reality was the installer was an IASCA judge too and with the other IASCA judges/installers, perpetuated this blatant snobbery merely to milk fools out of all the money they could.

Then there are those of us who know how to use a soldering iron, have a rollaway in the garage or spare bedroom, and know a Ferrari is still just a damn car with nuts and bolts that you can remove and see what's inside yourself- unless you're scared or snobby, or find your time is better spent raiding corporations than under the hood of a car. Which is fine and dandy, but don't get snobby about it, pretending a wire is anything more special than a wire just makes you look silly.

Since his battery packs were recycled, I find your discouraging of his promoting green actions to save our great planet morally reprehensible. :nono: so take that! 

Anyway nothing personal since I'm sure we have more we'd agree about than disagree, but as I went through the thread this was the kind of brand loyalty fanboy "marketing bull****" that was pointed out for its absurdity. Lupine makes a fine product, maybe one of if not the best available. However not everyone in today's economy can justify such snobbery. Show a $500 or $800 bike light to a group of guys, two will be impressed, three will wonder why you need it, and one will be laughing his ass off that you put hundreds of dollars in the hands of middlemen when he has one at home as good he made himself.


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