# Friday pics



## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Nearly got this one ready for powder. Just have some finish work, a hose guide and a disc brace to do tomorrow. Oh yeah, some reaming too.
Lets see what you guys got going.


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

want


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

*Nice!!*

Nice looking cruiser!! What wall thickness is the one piece ST??


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## Teague (Jul 2, 2005)

Friggin beautiful. Love the allusion of continuous stays from the side. Also wondering about the seattube. Bent right?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Looks like to me...

Modern 29'r geo couched in cruiser retro looks. Right out of my playbook. :thumbsup:


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Gracias dudes,

It is indeed a niner. 

The seat tube nearly broke my will to get what I wanted. It's 1.25" x .035, it's only 40 cm long so the weight's not a killer. A 30.0 thomson is a slip fit and I had a piece for the sleeve.

To bend it I packed it full of dry mortar mix which, given the local humidity tamps in more like set concrete.
I needed 10 degrees of bend but could only get 9 or less out of my jd2 bender with the ratchet assembly removed and a 6' bar.
I ended up modding the bender with a bolt and plate to help with the springback and that got me the 10 degrees I needed but with a tiny ripple. I filled and blended the area with silver and after 17 or so hours fighting it, it was good enough.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Very nice. Can't wait to see it with paint.

Let's see some more detail on that headtube!!!


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Supertherm 31.8*

Obviously this bike is not about being lightweight, but since you mention the seat tube weight, I thought I'd point out that the 31.8 x 1/7/1 Supertherm tube works pretty well for this sort of thing. I've bent them over longer radii, anyway, though it looks like what you did here is a very small radius bend?

Anyway, awesome looking bike. Care to share geometry numbers?

-Walt


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## vulture (Jan 13, 2004)

I was gonna say it looks like a huckleberry...then I realized! Go Jake.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Heres some headtube shots, it's one of the beautiful 18 bikes 34/44 tapered jobs.
They come one size-130mm, I scored some detail rings in the bottom and then parted it somewhere between 100 or 105, I don't remember. Mitering the 42mm DT to it was a chore and I feel good that I only lost about 3mm of front center due to 'adjustments' .

Walt, Thanks for the hot tip about the supertherm tubes, I'm going to try that out. It was a 5.5 clr jd2 die, It looks good with the wheel in place but a larger radii would work just as well.
The bike was built for northwestern oregon coastal jungle type riding so the numbers might not make a lot of sense to some but it's been working for me.
HT 72* at 25% sag
effective ST 70* (I run a saddle tip setback of 9.5-11cm)
BB ht is 12"+- or 61mm drop on my picture
CS is 42.5 slammed in the sliders with plenty of room due to the bent st. will be running mostly around mid slider, so 43.5- 44.
WB is 1073ish (sliders)
Fork is 100mm SID 29 with tapered steerer


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## ade ward (Jun 23, 2009)

Love your bike, 
I designed this , and sent the drawings to china to have it made, I did a number of designs around the bent seat tube in order to get the chainstays down to 407-427 i made my seat tube follow the diameter of the rear wheel


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

ade ward said:


> Love your bike,
> I designed this , and sent the drawings to china to have it made, I did a number of designs around the bent seat tube in order to get the chainstays down to 407-427 i made my seat tube follow the diameter of the rear wheel


Yeah, that looks great!
digging the E-stay, that would make it easy to go belt drive if you wanted


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## ade ward (Jun 23, 2009)

Belt drive was one of the bullet points on my ideal spec sheet
Currently cost and availability is putting me off 

The bike is designed around centre drive gates products
50 t front ring 24 t for alfine 28 t SS 113 or 115 tooth belt to give a chainstay length at 417mm


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

I'll play. 
100% un-filed fillet brazed frame off to utah.
- Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

*fork finally came in*

I've had the frame back from powder for awhile now. the intention was for it to be a white base coat with orange flecks suspended in the clear but it ran together like the color kittens and made electric adobe or killer clay pot, whichever you prefer (its kinda sparklie in the sun)
The fork was backordered for 8 weeks but came in a couple weeks early.
Neighborhood rides tell me that its going to be a winner, I may still put a -15*stem on it to drop it just a bit more. 
I'll get it out this weekend for a good ripper and decide about the stem then.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Dig the color.


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

Shipped to Shawnee Trail Bike and Performance Coatings yesterday. I'm anxious to see how they turn out.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

edoz said:


> Shipped to Shawnee Trail Bike and Performance Coatings yesterday. I'm anxious to see how they turn out.


am I looking at a little doz-max tubing on the nearer TT? I like it


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

No, optical illusion. The front bike does have 7/8" round chainstays tapered at the dropout end. I'm pretty happy with how they turned out.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

j-ro said:


> I've had the frame back from powder for awhile now. the intention was for it to be a white base coat with orange flecks suspended in the clear but it ran together like the color kittens and made electric adobe or killer clay pot, whichever you prefer (its kinda sparklie in the sun)
> The fork was backordered for 8 weeks but came in a couple weeks early.
> Neighborhood rides tell me that its going to be a winner, I may still put a -15*stem on it to drop it just a bit more.
> I'll get it out this weekend for a good ripper and decide about the stem then.


Your bike is beeeeuuuuutiful!!


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

Nice. Like the design and seat sleeve. The twin tubes extending off the seat stays look awkward with the 1 tube splicing onto the other. Did you consider doing it as a 3 piece? 

Eric


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

Eric Malcolm said:


> Nice. Like the design and seat sleeve. The twin tubes extending off the seat stays look awkward with the 1 tube splicing onto the other. Did you consider doing it as a 3 piece?
> 
> Eric


I had considered it before, it's the second time i've done it this way.

I't was easier to keep the line smooth and believeable between the TT and SS and the lower TT and stays doing this way.

After looking at it done I am also thinking I'd like to bring the stay line at the dropout up by maybe using black cats. The paragon 'hanging out' line is starting to bug me


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

todwil said:


> Your bike is beeeeuuuuutiful!!


Thanks! now for miles of fun.


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## JamieM (Apr 27, 2011)

Nice Ride!
I really like the rear brake routing.
What are you using to do the bend on the SS.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

JamieM said:


> Nice Ride!
> I really like the rear brake routing.
> What are you using to do the bend on the SS.


Harbor freight roller, Shop Outfitters 20/20 bender and a Diacro 35 ton press brake.
in that order


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

Only a 35 ton brake? How many seat stays can you do before you wear the thing out? ;-)

I have an idea about how to control the springback on the JD2. It's pretty simple but it limits the ability to change pins in the die when you max out the ratchet.


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

smudge said:


> Only a 35 ton brake? How many seat stays can you do before you wear the thing out? ;-)
> 
> I have an idea about how to control the springback on the JD2. It's pretty simple but it limits the ability to change pins in the die when you max out the ratchet.


We'll have to chat about next time we meet up Sean, I've tried a couple things but whats working the best for me right now is just taking the rachet bar completly off the bender and using a long lever to make one continous smooth bend.

I'm convinced that the jd2 bender really doesn't have a home in the framebuilding world.
The grief to success ratio of mine is pretty lopsided.


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## smudge (Jan 12, 2004)

j-ro said:


> We'll have to chat about next time we meet up Sean, I've tried a couple things but whats working the best for me right now is just taking the rachet bar completly off the bender and using a long lever to make one continous smooth bend.
> 
> I'm convinced that the jd2 bender really doesn't have a home in the framebuilding world.
> The grief to success ratio of mine is pretty lopsided.


I was having a conversation with my wife the other day relative to this. She calls me a pessimist but there are two things in my life that completely prove that I'm not. I actually enjoy golf and I believe that, with some work, I can make the JD2 bender behave.

If I'm wrong, the upside is that the dies have the same center pin diameter as the Diacro so I think they might come in handy yet.

We may get to chat soon...with any luck, that Deckel will be here early next week. Fingers crossed.


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

smudge said:


> I was having a conversation with my wife the other day relative to this. She calls me a pessimist but there are two things in my life that completely prove that I'm not. I actually enjoy golf and I believe that, with some work, I can make the JD2 bender behave.
> 
> If I'm wrong, the upside is that the dies have the same center pin diameter as the Diacro so I think they might come in handy yet.


I'm curious, can you substitute a roller for the shoe like on an Anvil bender? All you need is full support around the tube where the bend starts, right?


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

edoz said:


> I'm curious, can you substitute a roller for the shoe like on an Anvil bender? All you need is full support around the tube where the bend starts, right?


It would work if it was in some other bender set up but by that point you would only be using the die and not the frame.

Heres a mod I tried that some guys have been having luck with to fight springback.
It keeps the tension from backing all the way off when you reset the ratchet bar.
It works great.... just not on thin wall.


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

j-ro said:


> I'm convinced that the jd2 bender really doesn't have a home in the framebuilding world.
> The grief to success ratio of mine is pretty lopsided.


I notice that Fred at Wolfhound has what looks like a JD2 in one of his shop pictures. Maybe one of you Oregon guys should send an Imperial probe droid over to his place and see how his luck goes with it.


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## Jamenstall (May 18, 2004)

smudge said:


> If I'm wrong, the upside is that the dies have the same center pin diameter as the Diacro so I think they might come in handy yet..


I have no idea what you guys are talking about, but this right here is good to know.

Cheers
Soft


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

Beautiful work Jake. How tedious was the DT/HT miter? B


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

MDEnvEngr said:


> Beautiful work Jake. How tedious was the DT/HT miter? B


Thank you Bob!

I had to walk away from that miter a few times to think about things before starting up again.
I started by holesawing the correct dimension at the heel and toe of the miter then connecting the dots, that part was ok because it sort of fit.

The trouble came for me when it came time to tune it to the final spot.
with a normal miter you can touch the top or bottom to change the angle or tighten it up with no problems. With the tapered tube, every part of the miter needs to be worked over for even the tiniest movement to happen because it's an ever widening or ever shrinking shape.

Once I figured that out it was ok but I didn't realize it right off the bat. Sort of anticipating this, I cut and tuned the miter at the HT end before cutting the BB end and still had shrink the bike a little to make it just right.

In retrospect it may have been easier to do with a smaller diameter dt, the 42 takes up a lot of real estate. I'll get another crack at it as I have one more of those HT's from Eighteen bikes.

Later,
jake


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## mickuk (Jul 6, 2007)

Just seen this - lovely swoopy bike!

Well it is friday again and there has been discussion about seat tube bending - here is what I've been up to. Lumbertastic. And even that lever needed an extra length of scaffold tube to get enough grunt. 28.6 x 0.8 tube, packed with sand and radius to match 29er wheel.

Hopefully popping into work (no gas bottles at home) tomorrow to stick on a bb shell and get the ball rolling.


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## 18bikes (Jan 15, 2007)

MDEnvEngr said:


> Beautiful work Jake. How tedious was the DT/HT miter? B


I actually started a thread about this a while ago, search my history and you will find it.

They are really easy to work with, you can either draw it all up in bikecad and print out the mitre template or mitre from the top using the closest hole saw you have then open the bottom out by hand. When you are opening the bottom out you are basically aiming to do exactly the oposite of what you would normally be aiming to do by allowing the file to fall off the centreline of the mitre. I do this by allowing the handle end to drop and swing wide. It usually doesn't take very long and you can get a mitre just as good as with a normal headtube

hth
matt


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Full thread when I get a chance/finish the frame, just wanted to play in Friday Show and Tell. 

Thrashed to get #2 done-ish so I can race it this Sunday. Short wheelbase, short trail, low bb, 29er. Made for the Minnesota style 4mi of trail in 1 sq mi of trees. I'll tear it apart and complete the finish work next week. 

It's exactly eleventeen million-ish times better than #1 is.........and still terrible


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## jgerhardt (Aug 31, 2009)

G-reg said:


> Full thread when I get a chance/finish the frame, just wanted to play in Friday Show and Tell.
> 
> Thrashed to get #2 done-ish so I can race it this Sunday. Short wheelbase, short trail, low bb, 29er. Made for the Minnesota style 4mi of trail in 1 sq mi of trees. I'll tear it apart and complete the finish work next week.
> 
> It's exactly eleventeen million-ish times better than #1 is.........and still terrible


looks great!
(not sure you have enough brass at that BB though )


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

That angle makes it look worse than it is, not that it's that great from other angles. Huge downtube has a huge mitre around the seat tube and needed huge fillets to come close to smooth transitions.


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