# Ebike as only bike



## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Would you make an ebike the only bike you own? I don’t have much room wear I live so I can only have one bike, I like ebikes but not sure if I could make it my only bike.
what do you think?


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## DavidHood (May 29, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> Would you make an ebike the only bike you own? I don't have much room wear I live so I can only have one bike, I like ebikes but not sure if I could make it my only bike.
> what do you think?


They do tend to be in the shop for repairs more often so probably not.

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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

This decision will depend on where you live. If your local trails allows ebikes, I would go ebike only as first option for sure. E-bike on Eco, is pretty close to pedaling around a heavier enduro bike. You can always tone down an eBike you can't really tone "up" a standard bike depending on how you're feeling.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I will never go e-bike only (not until I have to), but I AM hoping to get some non-winter duty from my e-fat bike. Maybe on recovery days and epic journeys.

I just took delivery last week, but at this point, it's silly to think that my 55 pound behemoth could replace my Druid. I guess if I had a lighter weight Specialized but even then... Plus there would be no winter riding on that bike so it could not be a one-bike quiver for me.

I don't ever see myself riding my e-bike with non-e-bike riding friends.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

sml-2727 said:


> Would you make an ebike the only bike you own? I don't have much room wear I live so I can only have one bike, I like ebikes but not sure if I could make it my only bike.
> what do you think?


Great question. For me, it would have to be a gravel bike, given my love for both roads and trails. If I had to do it, I would likely choose the Creo SL EVO.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Yes, and I have only one bike now a Specialized Levo. Don’t miss a regular bike at all. Occasionally, I do ride with regular bikes and I just turn my eco mode to a much lower setting. And still get a good workout. 


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## bertschb (Sep 18, 2020)

I need an analog bike for the Forest Service and downhill bike park trails I ride during the summer in Central Oregon. e-bikes aren't allowed there. 

If e-bikes were allowed on Forest Service trails I'd use my Levo. Way more fun there! If e-bikes were allowed at the downhill bike park I'd still probably use an analog bike. I'd try the Levo but from my experience so far, the Levo just feels really heavy going into corners and braking. I don't think it would be as much fun in that situation.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

I only have a haibike nduro, 180 mm front and rear, 53 pounds.
Ride about 12 hours a week, great bike. Previous bike was a specialized Enduro 27.5.

My haibike does everything the Enduro did, but descends better.
And climbs are fun now.

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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I've been riding a Levo SL for the past 4 months, sold my Hightower only because they were so similar, apart from the motor.

I'm going to be building up a '21 SJ, will be a much different ride with the low weight and 130mm travel. There's something about a 100% human powered bike...



bertschb said:


> If e-bikes were allowed at the downhill bike park I'd still probably use an analog bike. I'd try the Levo but from my experience so far, the Levo just feels really heavy going into corners and braking. I don't think it would be as much fun in that situation.


In New Mexico, E-bikes are legal at Angel Fire. Took the Levo SL, with a Pike, DPX2 w/ a cascade link, and 2.6 tires. The bike was amazing. 6 foot drops, high speed single track, table tops, and really high speed cornering through berms. I can see that the weight of a FF e-bike would be a handful, I demoed a comp Levo for a couple of weeks, 52 pounds though it did have insane power. SL was perfect at 39.0 pounds (w/pedals).


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

sml-2727 said:


> Would you make an ebike the only bike you own? I don't have much room wear I live so I can only have one bike, I like ebikes but not sure if I could make it my only bike.
> what do you think?


Personally, I wouldn't, but it's very doable with something like an Orbea Rise, Specialized Levo SL, or Lapierre Zesty.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

RickBullottaPA said:


> Personally, I wouldn't, but it's very doable with something like an Orbea Rise, Specialized Levo SL, or Lapierre Zesty.


Rick, are you willing to give up the road so are you not counting your road bike? Just curious.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Jack7782 said:


> Rick, are you willing to give up the road so are you not counting your road bike? Just curious.


I'm not a good example ;-)

I have an eMTB, a regular MTB, a gravel/cross bike, and a fatbike.

I could probably get by with a set of 45's on a 29'er wheelset on my MTB as a road bike, since I generally don't ride roads - most of my longer rides are on gravel or doubletrack, with a little paved trail mixed in. I avoid the roads for survival reasons. Cars suck.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

My emtb replaced all my pedal-efficiency and speed-oriented bikes (road, commuter, xc, trail). It wasn't good enough to replace my gravity-oriented bike (which has geo that I wish my ebike had), but things are looking hopeful with some of the newer releases that don't have the rider's feet too far forward in relation to the wheels. In other words, the chainstays have been too long for how long the wheelbases/front-centers are. Also, the ST angles have not been steep enough for how steep the climbs emtbs are expected to attempt, esp with how much travel these bikes have and the expected amount of rear sag.

8k miles and counting on my e8000 equipped emtb (Motobecane HAL eBoost Pro). Only fault that could use shop service has been an occasional E020 error message that's been happening since this summer (I overheated the motor on a 104F/40C noon ride), which I just handle by restarting it. Seems to be declining in frequency as temps cool down though. I had a routine to handle it by shifting to an easier gear and moving my feet onto the downtube when turning it back on, to not throw off the torque sensor start-up check, and continuing on without much interruption.

Mostly been solo riding fireroads since COVID-19 spread, and experimenting with heavier spec than I'd usually run on my normal bike (for reliability). A DH casing Assegai on the back basically counters the ebike's assist, negating like 50W (which I suspect is about how much Shimano's eco mode adds). Before this tire addition and COVID spread, I rode with my non-ebiking friends without assistance, using the motor to ride from my front door to trailhead (20 miles away each way), using the assist only as a bail-out.

My habits for assist mode selection is basically to use assist to get through stuff I'd like to spend less time doing, and less assist to ride through stuff I'd like to spend more time doing. I figure that it defeats the purpose to speed through sweet singletrack. If I want to get more climbing time in for fitness, using assist defeats that purpose too. Hike-a-biking climbs is something I dislike, so I tend to be ready to increase assist to avoid stalling out. I dislike road and other flat-wide-and-straight paths, so it's a relief to find a way to make that grindy drudgery pass easier. I also use it to be more flexible with my route and my departure time, in the event that I have to meet up somewhere at a certain time.

Riding emtb made me realize that a lot of my habits have been shaped by fitness anxiety. I shopped for upgrades and was overly picky, compromising on strength for less burden on my fitness (lower weight, less drag/rolling-resistance, more compliance, etc). I'd pace myself to avoid blowing up early on a ride, so I wouldn't really attack climbs and instead spin in the saddle at sustainable level below my lactic threshold. Now I can attack a climb recklessly, knowing I can recover with the aid of the motor. I also choose more adventurous paths, rather than paths that I know will offer me a reliable workout, knowing that I can simply get a workout by turning off assist. The trail experience can be made fresh by varying my mood and assist level; I have more freedom to fool around, despite it being inefficient use of energy, knowing I have reserves in my battery. I've done some pretty burly rides without hydration too, and I'm more open to the idea of wearing more protective gear. I credit emtb for curing a lot of my upgraditis, and esp eliminating carbon lust. I'm tons more sensible about choice now.


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## madog99 (Jun 5, 2009)

Interesting thread. I have a Levo SL which I planned to be my only bike. I upgraded the wheels and put Schwalbe G1 29x2.35 tires on the originals for road/gravel riding. It works great as a do it all bike but trail access and group riding are issues that dictate keeping an acoustic bike around. I’ve been generous sharing the e-bike which has converted a number of riding buddies but still a ways to go. If not for limited trail access where I live, I’d be very tempted to live with just the Levo SL.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

madog99 said:


> Interesting thread. I have a Levo SL which I planned to be my only bike. I upgraded the wheels and put Schwalbe G1 29x2.35 tires on the originals for road/gravel riding. It works great as a do it all bike but trail access and group riding are issues that dictate keeping an acoustic bike around. I've been generous sharing the e-bike which has converted a number of riding buddies but still a ways to go. If not for limited trail access where I live, I'd be very tempted to live with just the Levo SL.


Sounds like another solution may be one Levo SL and 2 wheelsets - one for gravel/road and one for the trails


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Yeah, I would if I had to. I have had this Pivot for 6 months now. I have almost 900 miles on it with zero issues. I like the Shimano motor a lot.


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## LionelB (Dec 25, 2015)

I just went thru this and ordered a Levo SL S-Works and decided to keep the Fuel EX. We will see what gets used after 6months to a year.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

LionelB- I already know the answer to this :lol:


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## LionelB (Dec 25, 2015)

Flyer said:


> LionelB- I already know the answer to this :lol:


Yeah, maybe... We will see. Not a lof of my buddies have an e-mtb so when I go with them not sure I will take it. I also ride with my dog which the regular bike maybe more adequate.


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

I've only had a Levo Turbo comp for a few weeks, so far I've stuck to my plan.
- ride the ebike with my wife, now I can push her conditioning!
-ride HT, FS, gravel or fatbike matching friends that I ride with.

I'm retiring in early June, so plan to ride a lot more with non-ebike friends. Matching bike types makes the ride more fun (IMO).


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## AgentPhatrick (Oct 7, 2012)

I've been on a 2018 Levo Expert for about a year now. My 2015 Scott Genius LT is jealous. The Levo is too much fun and health setbacks make riding the analog bike a problem on any decent length ride. Only bummer is that I'm the "early adopter" in our group so I get to solo if I want a decent workout.


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## str8line (Apr 1, 2005)

I got my 2019 Kenevo Comp in March 2019 and I've only ridden my Enduro once since then. It now feels light and kind of flinty in comparison. The Kenevo feels much more solid when descending. No issues with the Kenevo after 1500 miles. More fun on the uphills and the downhills and tons of legal trails where I live so yeah, I'd keep it as an only bike.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Kenevo comp 2020 here, “upgraded” with stuff that increased weight, 57.6 lb on the hoof. If I had no desire to jump, it would be an easy only-bike, even though its a pig. But I want to jump and struggle to get airborne as much as I want. So I question ebike-only. Other than that, it is nothing but constant joy.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Varaxis said:


> My emtb replaced all my pedal-efficiency and speed-oriented bikes (road, commuter, xc, trail). It wasn't good enough to replace my gravity-oriented bike (which has geo that I wish my ebike had), but things are looking hopeful with some of the newer releases that don't have the rider's feet too far forward in relation to the wheels. In other words, the chainstays have been too long for how long the wheelbases/front-centers are. Also, the ST angles have not been steep enough for how steep the climbs emtbs are expected to attempt, esp with how much travel these bikes have and the expected amount of rear sag.
> 
> 8k miles and counting on my e8000 equipped emtb (Motobecane HAL eBoost Pro). Only fault that could use shop service has been an occasional E020 error message that's been happening since this summer (I overheated the motor on a 104F/40C noon ride), which I just handle by restarting it. Seems to be declining in frequency as temps cool down though. I had a routine to handle it by shifting to an easier gear and moving my feet onto the downtube when turning it back on, to not throw off the torque sensor start-up check, and continuing on without much interruption.
> 
> ...


Thanks very much for your many many insights. I wish more MTB purists would read this post because it would counter their claim that EMTBs are only for sick or old people or worse yet - cheaters. Those lycra clad ex-roadies (like me) are the worse offenders!


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Essentially my e fat bike is my only bike. I have an analog bike and rode it about 40 miles this year. The e fat bike I rode about 3,900 miles this year.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

Varaxis said:


> My emtb replaced all my pedal-efficiency and speed-oriented bikes (road, commuter, xc, trail). It wasn't good enough to replace my gravity-oriented bike (which has geo that I wish my ebike had), but things are looking hopeful with some of the newer releases that don't have the rider's feet too far forward in relation to the wheels. In other words, the chainstays have been too long for how long the wheelbases/front-centers are. Also, the ST angles have not been steep enough for how steep the climbs emtbs are expected to attempt, esp with how much travel these bikes have and the expected amount of rear sag.
> 
> 8k miles and counting on my e8000 equipped emtb (Motobecane HAL eBoost Pro). Only fault that could use shop service has been an occasional E020 error message that's been happening since this summer (I overheated the motor on a 104F/40C noon ride), which I just handle by restarting it. Seems to be declining in frequency as temps cool down though. I had a routine to handle it by shifting to an easier gear and moving my feet onto the downtube when turning it back on, to not throw off the torque sensor start-up check, and continuing on without much interruption.
> 
> ...


Awesome post and totally agree!


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Fitness anxiety?


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> Fitness anxiety?


I know my son had this when he rode with me prior to getting an ebike. He was always concerned he would be too slow or wouldn't have the fitness to complete some of the rides HE wanted to do. I always tried to be very gracious and suggest rides that were easier loops or out and backs where we could turn around if he got tired, but he told me all the time, "No you go, I know you want to ride something else". I always was clear, my goal was to ride with him, but it became a source of "anxiety" for him.

Ebikes totally solved it and in fact he now rides a lot more confident when we ride standard as well. His fitness is actually progressing very nicely because he is willing to ride more and longer.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

roughster said:


> I know my son had this when he rode with me prior to getting an ebike. He was always concerned he would be too slow or wouldn't have the fitness to complete some of the rides HE wanted to do. I always tried to be very gracious and suggest rides that were easier loops or out and backs where we could turn around if he got tired, but he told me all the time, "No you go, I know you want to ride something else". I always was clear, my goal was to ride with him, but it became a source of "anxiety" for him.
> 
> Ebikes totally solved it and in fact he now rides a lot more confident when we ride standard as well. His fitness is actually progressing very nicely because he is willing to ride more and longer.


Yeah I can relate to that, sort of like the thought of going on a group ride with guys who are a level or 2 up from you. That didn't seem to be what Varaxis was talking about though.

When I think of "fitness anxiety" the first thing that comes to mind is that I've gone 3 or 4 days without riding and that I better get my @ss back on it or I'll lose my fitness


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

How much room can a backup analog bike take up? Loosen the stem, turn the bars in line with the frame, hang it from a hook close to the wall.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

in my workshop, wall space is the most precious space of all. bar none. A bike no matter how sliced or flatted takes up a huge amount of wall space. I can store (and access) a ton of full-sheet plywood in the wall space a bike would take up. And that's about 50% of the horizontal wall space in a typical 2 car garage. 50% of the vertical too. And no hanging bikes for those of us with flat roofs.

Bikes are an enormous challenge for those of us with limited space and use the garage for cars or workshop. It's an entire fixture that needs to be planned around.

-------

That doesn't even factor in that bikes multiply like rabbits for families, given wives, husbands (sometimes both if you live in a blue state), children. Children often have multiples when they go between sizes, not surprising to see a family of four with 6 bikes, and that could be factoring that the "biker" of the family has only one bike!

Need a parking lot


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

roughster said:


> I know my son had this when he rode with me prior to getting an ebike. He was always concerned he would be too slow or wouldn't have the fitness to complete some of the rides HE wanted to do. I always tried to be very gracious and suggest rides that were easier loops or out and backs where we could turn around if he got tired, but he told me all the time, "No you go, I know you want to ride something else". I always was clear, my goal was to ride with him, but it became a source of "anxiety" for him.
> 
> Ebikes totally solved it and in fact he now rides a lot more confident when we ride standard as well. His fitness is actually progressing very nicely because he is willing to ride more and longer.


No range anxiety? Lack of fitness becomes a non-issue on a 50 lb bike when the battery goes, you're the back of the pack


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Any Ebike is 2 bike. Just remove the battery.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Yea, fitness anxiety is the self-doubt that you currently have the fitness to handle a certain route. You end up wussing out. It could be from exhaustion mid-ride and taking an alternative line to avoid a steep punchy climb, even if it's just a mere boulder that you ride up and over. It just could stem from how you feel before you even commit to going out to ride such as being sore/tired from work and traffic, finding excuses to do something more comfortable like spread BS on mtbr.

Repeatedly wussing out and finding excuses can be depressing, often leading to blaming everything. The bike tends to be a common target of blame and correction/improvement. Some might seek a second opinion on what could be improved, with some recognizing the pattern as blaming the bike and suggesting a "macho-take" to ride more, while others objectively suggest an actual upgrade. For example, the thought that your tires are slow and overkill may cross your mind, believing you don't have the general fitness to even get potential out of heavier and grippier tires. Or you may believe similar about the suspension bobbing excessively, especially when you're slow and tired, wanting a lockout since you fear your energy is wasted through bob, doubting that you have the fitness to regularly get potential out of so much travel to make it worth it. "Upgradeitis" is what I call the urge to upgrade, as if money was burning a hole in your pocket. The upgrades could range from mere motivation that could be mostly aesthetic (colored bike bling/"jewelry") and/or for security/peace-of-mind (protective film), to something more functional that helps expand your comfort zone. Effectively, the urge to put the upgrades to use becomes a reason to get off your ass to ride and overcome some wussy excuses (at least temporarily).

In hindsight, I found that this fitness anxiety shapes a ton of decisions. I only scratched the surface, beyond implying lightweight upgrades are chosen over cheap+strong ones. I can list a whole lot of things that don't seem so bad with more power and speed at my disposal, like riding with traffic on the road, cutting the speed differential down between bike and car, and being more willing to trailblaze off the pavement where it's slower. Carrying more on your back, with a more comprehensive collection of breakdown and emergency response kits. Being more willing to stop (wasting "hard-earned speed") and do trail maintenance or follow etiquette (yielding when there's not enough space to pass) and traffic/safety rules. Less obsession about day-to-day fitness like through strava (PR comparisons), and being more focused on gaining new experiences that were seemingly beyond your prior perceived limits.

If seeing the words 55+ lb bike, DH tires, active susp (even on climbs/flats), and cheap parts triggered some negative thoughts in you, you likely have fitness anxiety in you. If someone throws out numbers like 50 miles 5000 ft, and you think of very specific scenarios that would make that possible, being very sweet singletrack that's so beautiful, with a very chill group that is supportive (perhaps carrying some spares that you might neglect to carry), at a pace that stretches it out over a day (~10 hrs, to account for sore butts)... if you find that the actual context was a trip done in 6 hours, with a lot of road and fireroad included, and chunky/rocky climbs exposed to full sun, with only small sections of sweet singletrack mixed in, and you _quickly judge_ it to not be your cup-of-tea then you probably have fitness anxiety. To someone without such anxiety, it's just an opportunity for a fresh experience. Without the burden of concern for fitness, you become much more open to trying something new mtn biking becomes more about biking rugged mountain-like terrain, and less about seeking groomed bike-park-style riding experiences closer to home.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Whiterabbitt said:


> in my workshop, wall space is the most precious space of all. bar none. A bike no matter how sliced or flatted takes up a huge amount of wall space. I can store (and access) a ton of full-sheet plywood in the wall space a bike would take up. And that's about 50% of the horizontal wall space in a typical 2 car garage. 50% of the vertical too. And no hanging bikes for those of us with flat roofs.
> 
> Bikes are an enormous challenge for those of us with limited space and use the garage for cars or workshop. It's an entire fixture that needs to be planned around.
> 
> ...












https://newatlas.com/stowaway-ceiling-bike-storage/40616/

.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

That's where my dimension lumber goes when it's longer than 8 feet long. Also the pipes for the dust collector, not to mention the 140-some-odd feet of fluorescent tubes in my19x19 workshop .

Don't get me wrong, if your exclusive passion is cycling (or one of two passions), what a wonderful thing. But some hobbies take up loads of room, and something has to give.

Others maybe live in apartments with covered parking only, sucks to have a bike in a living room, much less two bikes.


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

33red said:


> Any Ebike is 2 bike. Just remove the battery.


I would actually like to see an aluminum framework sold to replace the motor of a Levo/Kenevo that houses a bottom bracket so the motor can be eliminated as well.

The motor is heavy, and in the case of Brose S mag, it drags slightly when off. a "regular bike" conversion kit would best come with that sub-frame to pull the batt, motor, and reinforce the opening of the battery tube, in the case of the levo/kenevo.

I assume there would also be a weight penalty for the frame (not to mention the aluminum adapter) but surely that is not more than a couple pounds, which is not bad compared to a 50 lb bike.

But my bike is just over 50 lb even with the battery removed, so it's still not a regular bike once that thing is out. That's before factoring motor drag. So motor removal has to be part of the conversion for those who would see full-power e-bikes converted to regular bike and back. in my case, it would still be 45 lb without battery and motor.

I'm not sure if the lighter e-bikes prioritized low drag when disconnected (not just when off, but when fully disconnected), but that would go a long way to normalizing an e-bike via battery removal without motor removal.

e-bike haters of course still reject such bikes. I barked up that tree and was soundly rebuffed immediately via "it has a motor, it is a motorbike, even with the battery out. what is wrong with you, albino bunny?"


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Repeatedly wussing out and finding excuses can be depressing, often leading to blaming everything. The bike tends to be a common target of blame and correction/improvement. Some might seek a second opinion on what could be improved, with some recognizing the pattern as blaming the bike and suggesting a "macho-take" to ride more, while others objectively suggest an actual upgrade.


I'm thankful that I've never suffered this type of fitness anxiety. Glad to hear an ebike helped to alleviate yours.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Yea, fitness anxiety is the self-doubt that you currently have the fitness to handle a certain route. You end up wussing out. It could be from exhaustion mid-ride and taking an alternative line to avoid a steep punchy climb, even if it's just a mere boulder that you ride up and over. It just could stem from how you feel before you even commit to going out to ride such as being sore/tired from work and traffic, finding excuses to do something more comfortable like spread BS on mtbr.


I hear you, everything you say is for the most part, true. Especially the part about it opening up new avenues for use of the bike. 
Going for more than 20-30 miles seemed like a pipe dream until the e bike. Now that I have the bike saddle problem solved, I am contemplating 1000+ mile adventures bikepacking. I need to upgrade a few things. At the moment I only have an 1,100 Wh battery. Three times that much battery opens up some really remote possibilities. All good stuff.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Varaxis said:


> Yea, fitness anxiety is the self-doubt that you currently have the fitness to handle a certain route. You end up wussing out. It could be from exhaustion mid-ride and taking an alternative line to avoid a steep punchy climb, even if it's just a mere boulder that you ride up and over. It just could stem from how you feel before you even commit to going out to ride such as being sore/tired from work and traffic, finding excuses to do something more comfortable like spread BS on mtbr.
> 
> Repeatedly wussing out and finding excuses can be depressing, often leading to blaming everything. The bike tends to be a common target of blame and correction/improvement. Some might seek a second opinion on what could be improved, with some recognizing the pattern as blaming the bike and suggesting a "macho-take" to ride more, while others objectively suggest an actual upgrade. For example, the thought that your tires are slow and overkill may cross your mind, believing you don't have the general fitness to even get potential out of heavier and grippier tires. Or you may believe similar about the suspension bobbing excessively, especially when you're slow and tired, wanting a lockout since you fear your energy is wasted through bob, doubting that you have the fitness to regularly get potential out of so much travel to make it worth it. "Upgradeitis" is what I call the urge to upgrade, as if money was burning a hole in your pocket. The upgrades could range from mere motivation that could be mostly aesthetic (colored bike bling/"jewelry") and/or for security/peace-of-mind (protective film), to something more functional that helps expand your comfort zone. Effectively, the urge to put the upgrades to use becomes a reason to get off your ass to ride and overcome some wussy excuses (at least temporarily).
> 
> ...


I had fitness anxiety on my Enduro bike.

Basically, i would not push hard on the uphill, because i was worried i would run out of steam later on.

Also tech uphill, i would not try some stuff , again because i didn't think i was strong enough.

Most of it disappeared on my e bike.

The uphill technical stuff is doable now, primarily because of higher power to weight ratio. I used to think that i packed technical skills on uphill tech terrain, but now I'm convinced i wasn't strong enough.

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## michaeldorian (Nov 17, 2006)

madog99 said:


> Interesting thread. I have a Levo SL which I planned to be my only bike. I upgraded the wheels and put Schwalbe G1 29x2.35 tires on the originals for road/gravel riding. It works great as a do it all bike but trail access and group riding are issues that dictate keeping an acoustic bike around. I've been generous sharing the e-bike which has converted a number of riding buddies but still a ways to go. If not for limited trail access where I live, I'd be very tempted to live with just the Levo SL.


Same with me. If it wasn't for trail access, I probably would forgo analog and just ride the E. I also have a LEVO SL. Also had a LEVO. The SL is so close to the analog experience that sometimes I forget it's an E-bike on the descents. Feels identical to my Stumpjumper. It's all the pros with almost none of the cons. You get to ride more trail while keeping that lively light feel. Wish it wasn't so noisy though.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Whiterabbitt said:


> in my workshop, wall space is the most precious space of all. bar none. A bike no matter how sliced or flatted takes up a huge amount of wall space. I can store (and access) a ton of full-sheet plywood in the wall space a bike would take up. And that's about 50% of the horizontal wall space in a typical 2 car garage. 50% of the vertical too. And no hanging bikes for those of us with flat roofs.
> 
> Bikes are an enormous challenge for those of us with limited space and use the garage for cars or workshop. It's an entire fixture that needs to be planned around.
> 
> ...


You keep your bikes in the garage?! :eekster: I keep my kids bikes hanging in the entryway to our house using hooks that hold the bike by the pedal. My wife says it adds "visual interest" to our little foyer area. We keep _our_ bikes in the otherwise dead corner of the family room behind the couches. It beats trying to find some odd bit of furniture or decor to fill the space.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

LionelB said:


> Yeah, maybe... We will see. Not a lof of my buddies have an e-mtb so when I go with them not sure I will take it. I also ride with my dog which the regular bike maybe more adequate.


There's a simple solution to that. Hit the trainer hard the night before and kill your legs. Then you won't be any faster on the e-bike than you normally would be on the regular bike, thus maintaining the same pace as your friends. I know that's what I used to do when I was meeting someone to ride with and my regular bike was down for whatever reason. So up at 7am with a pair of legs that were thoroughly cooked the night before. :lol:


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Nice thing about specialized is you can tune how much power for each setting, by % assist, in increments of 5%.

I set my eco mode to 10%, and it's still too much, I can power past real bikers on the ups. So now it is set to 5%. Haven't been biking up crowded fireroads on that setting yet tho to benchmark performance vs real bike, but will when I can.

If GTG, then I can ride with my non e-bike buddies and just keep it on ECO. That's the plan anyways.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Zero assist mode is a totally viable mode.

Gets me a better workout than buddies on the same route. Motor is still on, so can switch to low assist mode in a pinch. Conserves battery power.

On my latest group ride, my headlight's battery lost "bars" faster than my motor, and it's a light that's rated for over 4 hrs.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

For reference, it's a Shimano E8000 STEPS setup so "white" lettering on the display is zero-assist, light blue is eco, green is trail, and yellow is boost.









Assegai 2.5 DH casing rear. Well over 55 lbs. 34x11-36 gearing. Nothing really geared towards making zero-assist easier to ride. Just stuff that I feel that I can comfortably live long term with, being fed up with failed rear tires that can leave me stranded and unnecessarily expensive drivetrain parts.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

My everyday riding kit: FF helmet with battery attached to back and GoPro under visor, balaclava that I wear as a mask, pads, backpack...

Ebike helped make it bearable during the "break-in" period, where my body was not yet adapted to it all.

Makes me look back at classic bikes and question why I ever thought it was an okay idea to do stuff like remove reflectors off my wheels, when I ride the road at night for hours at a time, ride without protection despite seeing ppl having injuries, ride without emergency supplies, etc.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Varaxis said:


> Zero assist mode is a totally viable mode.


Agree 100%


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## ruffian (Oct 26, 2005)

I've been riding for 20+ years. Rigid, suspension, gears, SS whatever. Trials, dirt jumps, skate parks, university stair gaps, xc epics, road centuries, chased by dogs down gravel. Also a garage full of bikes that go with all of it. Now that I live in NW Arkansas all I have is an emtb. All I ride is mtb..maybe some gravel. I ride my emtb everywhere.. to the trails, to work...wherever. Im 44, fit and live in a area where I can do without driving a car. I ride to the trails. I have zero desire for a regular bike anymore. Lots of travel, hauls ass, loves to be throw off everything..rails the berms, will do XC epics and gets me to work. This thing makes me excited about riding all over again. I think these bikes really shine if you're a skilled rider. Bonus you get a gym workout while you ride. Haters gonna hate who cares.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

ruffian said:


> I've been riding for 20+ years. Rigid, suspension, gears, SS whatever. Trials, dirt jumps, skate parks, university stair gaps, xc epics, road centuries, chased by dogs down gravel. Also a garage full of bikes that go with all of it. Now that I live in NW Arkansas all I have is an emtb. All I ride is mtb..maybe some gravel. I ride my emtb everywhere.. to the trails, to work...wherever. Im 44, fit and live in a area where I can do without driving a car. I ride to the trails. I have zero desire for a regular bike anymore. Lots of travel, hauls ass, loves to be throw off everything..rails the berms, will do XC epics and gets me to work. This thing makes me excited about riding all over again. I think these bikes really shine if you're a skilled rider. Bonus you get a gym workout while you ride. Haters gonna hate who cares.


That is reality.
Some think an assisted bike is fine when their knees cannot do the job anymore but they **need a car** to get to the trails, to the grocery, etc...
I use a tiny assist not a CAR and my fat has no assist.
Who is in shape?


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

ruffian said:


> I've been riding for 20+ years. Rigid, suspension, gears, SS whatever. Trials, dirt jumps, skate parks, university stair gaps, xc epics, road centuries, chased by dogs down gravel. Also a garage full of bikes that go with all of it. Now that I live in NW Arkansas all I have is an emtb. All I ride is mtb..maybe some gravel. I ride my emtb everywhere.. to the trails, to work...wherever. Im 44, fit and live in a area where I can do without driving a car. I ride to the trails. I have zero desire for a regular bike anymore. Lots of travel, hauls ass, loves to be throw off everything..rails the berms, will do XC epics and gets me to work. This thing makes me excited about riding all over again. I think these bikes really shine if you're a skilled rider. Bonus you get a gym workout while you ride. Haters gonna hate who cares.


NW Arkansas? Where specifically? I've been looking at the Ozark region for possible relocation. What's the healthcare situation down there for people who don't get it through an employer? Are they on O'Bamacare, or did they opt out?

.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

I don't get how people think if they own an e-bike that can't pace themselves to ride with standard bikes. As mentioned, tone down your assist in Eco to pretty much offset the extra bike weight and you will be on par with a reasonably fit standard rider. Just because you can blast around in turbo ... doesn't mean you have to 

I ride with other standard riders a lot and have zero issues metering out the power so the ride is enjoyable for both types of bikes.


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## Gruitr1 (Mar 18, 2011)

ruffian said:


> I've been riding for 20+ years. Rigid, suspension, gears, SS whatever. Trials, dirt jumps, skate parks, university stair gaps, xc epics, road centuries, chased by dogs down gravel. Also a garage full of bikes that go with all of it. Now that I live in NW Arkansas all I have is an emtb. All I ride is mtb..maybe some gravel. I ride my emtb everywhere.. to the trails, to work...wherever. Im 44, fit and live in a area where I can do without driving a car. I ride to the trails. I have zero desire for a regular bike anymore. Lots of travel, hauls ass, loves to be throw off everything..rails the berms, will do XC epics and gets me to work. This thing makes me excited about riding all over again. I think these bikes really shine if you're a skilled rider. Bonus you get a gym workout while you ride. Haters gonna hate who cares.


What brand/model emtb do you ride? I'm just starting to look. So many choices....


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## techfersure (Dec 17, 2010)

sml-2727 said:


> Would you make an ebike the only bike you own? I don't have much room wear I live so I can only have one bike, I like ebikes but not sure if I could make it my only bike.
> what do you think?


Uh,no. I just turned 64 with 35 years Mtb. Recently purchased my second ebike 2020 Trek Rail 9.8. I also have the 2020 Fuel Ex 9.9. I love them both for different reasons. An ebike is a blast to ride overall and when riding in attack mode for several hrs you feel the burn. Love self shuttles for the jump line we have an all of the technical sessions you can do without burnout! Great for trail work with a trailer and also recovery days or just after a long work day and an incentive to get out there.

My Fuel Ex is as much fun for different reasons. I still like tackling climbs and like it's light and fluffy feeling at speed. There is still a spark for pedaling an non assist Mtb. I do feel between both my fitness is as in top form as ever has been. Having both is icing on the cake!!!?


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## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Ebikes are the greatest thing since sliced bread. Pretty soon guy's'll be starting threads asking if anyone even rides mountain bikes anymore. The versatility of these ebikes is unmatched. The days of not being able to have your cake and eat it too are over. Now-a-days you can have your cake, and then eat it too. The pro's ride ebikes and incorporate it into their training.


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## ruffian (Oct 26, 2005)

Trek Rail 7. My two favorites at the time were the Orbea Wild FS and the Rail. New Levo should be out next year I hear. New motor too!


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## ruffian (Oct 26, 2005)

_CJ said:


> NW Arkansas? Where specifically? I've been looking at the Ozark region for possible relocation. What's the healthcare situation down there for people who don't get it through an employer? Are they on O'Bamacare, or did they opt out?
> 
> .


I live in Bentonville right off the Slaughter Pen trail system. As far as insurance my wife and I are on private thru Blue Cross Blue Shield. Decent coverage and actually cheaper than my previous insurance thru my old employer. I'd say this is a wonderful place to live if you like riding bicycles. The mountain and gravel riding are top notch and jobs are easy to find. Bentonville, Rogers or Bella Vista would be good places to look although all three cities are getting more expensive by the day. Bentonville and Bella Vista if you want to have trails in your backyard. I can ride six trail systems from my front door by bike.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

The Marin Alpine Trail E2 looks like one I'd choose as my only bike. Moderate length wheelbase, shorty-friendly geo, do-all design. My current ebike started way too XCish--everything needed beefing up, starting with bigger brake rotors, shorter cranks, sturdier rear tire and wheels... the 140mm Pike is asking for beefing up, and the frame geo was always on the list to improve.

There are a couple climbs I can think of where a bit of extra torque/power would help improve my success rate, and I've often been pushing the 500 Wh battery's range, often riding a lot in zero-assist mode to save battery for when I could use it to help clear tech when my legs are tired.

A lot of the other options have mega long WB and/or mega long CS. Long WB is just kind of unwieldy, being less responsive to rider input, and kind of lethargic feeling at lower speed. 1230ish WB seems like a decent middle ground. I understand that long CS can help keep the front wheel on the ground easier, and to keep enough weight on the front wheel for ppl who like to defensively hang back and drag brakes, but I've been quietly wishing that they'd trim CS length and make the STA steeper to get a similar effect without compromising agility and general fore/aft balance. The long CS design reminds me of the dirt roadie days when 29ers first came out, when ppl were more concerned about shaving weight to restore zippy playfulness, not too concerned about the gravity-based handling. I've been aiming my emtb at the horizon, seeking a route to reach the peaks, and I've had to revise my judgement of how rough and challenging fireroads and 4x4 trails can be.

Anyways, my idea of do-all has leaned towards capability and range, rather than something that trades off capability to feel more like a lightweight trail bike. I want to reach even further points, with bonus points for starting rides at my front door. I've been trying to push my wander range to everything within a 20-25 mile radius, with ambition to push that even further.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

ruffian said:


> I live in Bentonville right off the Slaughter Pen trail system. As far as insurance my wife and I are on private thru Blue Cross Blue Shield. Decent coverage and actually cheaper than my previous insurance thru my old employer. I'd say this is a wonderful place to live if you like riding bicycles. The mountain and gravel riding are top notch and jobs are easy to find. Bentonville, Rogers or Bella Vista would be good places to look although all three cities are getting more expensive by the day. Bentonville and Bella Vista if you want to have trails in your backyard. I can ride six trail systems from my front door by bike.


Great, thanks! I'll keep an eye on the region. Seems like there's a ton of foreclosures, but that'll probably be how things are for the next year or so.

.


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## russinthecascades (Jun 1, 2013)

roughster said:


> I don't get how people think if they own an e-bike that can't pace themselves to ride with standard bikes. As mentioned, tone down your assist in Eco to pretty much offset the extra bike weight and you will be on par with a reasonably fit standard rider. Just because you can blast around in turbo ... doesn't mean you have to
> 
> I ride with other standard riders a lot and have zero issues metering out the power so the ride is enjoyable for both types of bikes.


This is an excellent suggestion! I had just figured I'd not use the ebike with regular bike friends, but there will be times traveling when we'll only have room for 1 bike each. I played with settings last night and it dead easy to change, now I just have to experiment to find to right %'s to mimic a standard ride.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Back on topic.....after another E-ride today, I think I could totally go full time E, if the trail access was there. Reliability may still be an issue, and these things seem to be maintenance monsters, so I suspect I'll always have a my rigid flintstone bike hanging around.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

I think this answer is pretty straight forward. If you are going to pay attention to the rules regarding eBikes it is going to be tough. 

I have a few friends that are eBike only. Nobody pays much attention to eBike vs non eBike trails around here and there are a lot of back country trails that are not illegal per se. Just know that if you are going eBike only then you will have to most likely break the rules at some point.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

My experience so far has been...

- folks who never mtb'd before... ebike is the only mountain bike, and that's not likely to change. They just buy more ebikes.

- all mountain, dh riders who buy an emtb, they do about 70% emtb the first year, and the pedal mtb disappears over the years.

- xc/trail riders who buy an emtb... they do about 50/50.



And folks who buy an emtb for their wife so she can keep up. The chances of them getting hooked on emtb.... 99.95%. lolol


For me personally, I was 50/50 last year as I have to test a lot of pedal bikes still. But with Covid and all solo rides from home. More emtb. And with the introduction of great emtbs, like the Bullit, Rise, Levo SL, it's less of a compromise now and I'm not missing much riding emtb. My S-Works Enduro is still better but... where am i gonna ride that thing close me?


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

Dang, you nailed me to a T. About 70%.

Though I anticipate staying at 70% year on year, but I know how reality works. If I were to bet who is right between you and me, I'd put my money on you!

tho if I had a magic $1000 to put into my old bike (or more) and it magically came out to 30 lb when done, I'd ride it at least 30% if not 40 for sure. Ha!


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I was 50-70% ebike during my first year with it, treating it as part of the quiver. That turned into 100% after my ebike suffered a double wheel failure (1 year ago) and I stole some parts from my Grim Donut to get it running. I wished the Grim Donut had a motor since I loved its geo, but when it came to choosing between motor and geo, I chose motor.

I'm just extra careful of technical descents, avoid jumps, and wear armor in-case I feel like re-experiencing radness on MTB. I keep it on 4x4 trails (fireroads) for the most part.

That Marin Alpine Trail E (in size medium) looks good as something that has geo I like, plus motor. I hate the excessive forward weight bias of my current emtb, and how it forces me to get my body position so rearward on everything.


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## MySpaceTOM (Nov 19, 2013)

I made the choice to ditch my well built Hightower V2 for a new Bullit. I've gotten more miles in just the past two weeks than Inhabe the past two months.

I'm lucky that my two local trails are ebike friendly and I'm able to ride to them from my front door. Ride all the trails and ride home.

This being my only bike now, I'm looking at adding another bike back to the lineup purely due to trail access. I'm trying to be a good advocate for ebikes and in order to do that I need a non ebike for places like Pisgah and DuPont. Once those places convert to ebike, if/when, I'd be happy with ebike 100% again.

Also, the Bullit is a beast!









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Love the Bullit. Welcome to the dark side! I dig the bike and the OneUp rack. Which model of their racks do you advise for a single EMTB like yours with a 2" hitch?


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## Whiterabbitt (May 16, 2020)

I got the heaviest duty rack they make. No point in questioning the integrity of the rack over $200 compared to a $6000 bicycle.

i also got black. In retrospect I would order silver. It will show scratches less.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Varaxis said:


> I was 50-70% ebike during my first year with it, treating it as part of the quiver. That turned into 100% after my ebike suffered a double wheel failure (1 year ago) and I stole some parts from my Grim Donut to get it running. I wished the Grim Donut had a motor since I loved its geo, but when it came to choosing between motor and geo, I chose motor.
> 
> I'm just extra careful of technical descents, avoid jumps, and wear armor in-case I feel like re-experiencing radness on MTB. I keep it on 4x4 trails (fireroads) for the most part.
> 
> That Marin Alpine Trail E (in size medium) looks good as something that has geo I like, plus motor. I hate the excessive forward weight bias of my current emtb, and how it forces me to get my body position so rearward on everything.


50-70% first year... becomes 100. I know many folks like that. I would say about 80% of many dozen i know. What happens initially is ebike solo rides then when riding with the buddies that are non-E, then pedal it is. But then the groups change over and many switch or try it one by one.

Very regional in timing. In Santa Cruz, there is a big wave. In other areas, especially XC strongholds, very little adoption or acceptance.


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## SchralphMacchio (Aug 24, 2015)

I’m very surprised how many of you dentists aren’t concerned about not having a backup for planned or unplanned eMTB shop downtime, or for dicking around at the local pumptrack, with kids, etc. Not even a 26” DJ or super short CS 27 or 29 hardtail for messing around???

Of course, I don’t have just one P-bike ... so imagining just an eMTB my only ride is hard.


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

SchralphMacchio said:


> I'm very surprised how many of you dentists aren't concerned about not having a backup for planned or unplanned eMTB shop downtime, or for dicking around at the local pumptrack, with kids, etc. Not even a 26" DJ or super short CS 27 or 29 hardtail for messing around???
> 
> Of course, I don't have just one P-bike ... so imagining just an eMTB my only ride is hard.


I am not a pleeb dentist so I have a Kenevo, '21 Enduro, '21 SJ Evo, Transition pump track bike, and '20 Tarmac.

I ride 50/50 analog to eBike. My last 12 months were 70/30 in favor of the analog, but I got my eBike mid year. I love technical climbing and the ability to throw my analog bike around, but I am a weirdo. A few of my friends have gone full eBike and love it. If I didn't still have a few racing aspirations/goals I would probably ride a lot more E. The only downside to the eBike is the decrease in FTP/Peak power and anaerobic/Zone 5 capacity.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

sml-2727 said:


> Would you make an ebike the only bike you own? I don't have much room wear I live so I can only have one bike, I like ebikes but not sure if I could make it my only bike.
> what do you think?


I've never had a problem with my ebike kit, just had to change out a chain or derailer. No need to take it into a shop, to easy to repair. Can't do that with no store bought ebike, all proprietary components. I upgraded power, all I did was buy a new controller off ebay. You can make one ebike your only bike, just a matter of what you are riding. City streets and pathway riding you can have anything and everything under the sun, but to optimize for better efficiency, proper power curve for stop and go, maybe a mid drive like a BBSHD or Cyclone.


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## FearHeldDear (Aug 3, 2018)

My only bike is a YT Decoy Pro Race and have pre ordered a Commencal Meta Power SX Race few days ago. When it arrives ill have to sell one (also limited space)


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

matt4x4 said:


> The only downside to the eBike is the decrease in FTP/Peak power and anaerobic/Zone 5 capacity.


This.

I Sold my Hightower 2 (32.5 pounds) When I got the Levo SL (39 pounds). The Hightower 2 was redundant, felt like pedaling the SL w/out a motor. Rode the SL exclusively for 8 months. Because it was my only bike and I wanted to maintain some semblance of fitness, I would dial the power way down. Just got a '21 Stumpy and although peak power was down, my cardio was still good.

Ride about 50/50 now, peak power is back. The SJ is such a different animal, it's a joy to ride, completely different than the SL. Now that I have the SJ and it's keeping me pretty fit, I ride the SL with higher power settings and both bikes are a feakin' blast!


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

mlx john said:


> This.
> 
> I Sold my Hightower 2 (32.5 pounds) When I got the Levo SL (39 pounds). The Hightower 2 was redundant, felt like pedaling the SL w/out a motor. Rode the SL exclusively for 8 months. Because it was my only bike and I wanted to maintain some semblance of fitness, I would dial the power way down. Just got a '21 Stumpy and although peak power was down, my cardio was still good.
> 
> Ride about 50/50 now, peak power is back. The SJ is such a different animal, it's a joy to ride, completely different than the SL. Now that I have the SJ and it's keeping me pretty fit, I ride the SL with higher power settings and both bikes are a feakin' blast!


(Please forgive the temporary thread derailment.)

This is very interesting. My first new bike in 16-or-so years was a full-fat Levo, and so I'm fully admitting that it is hard to separate the eMTB-ness from the modern MTB-ness in my discernment. Which is why I've been considering picking up a modern (manual) Stumpy out of the idea that it would have all the traits of the Levo without the assisted motivation.

But you attest that it is a very different creature from even the Levo SL? Do you think the Stumpy Evo would be closer?


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I log waaaaay more time in Z5 180+ bpm on my ebike than my carbon FS trail bike, riding the same course.

It's because the emtb gives me the license to show up to blow up. I have no anxiety about being gassed out for the rest of the ride, if I decide to attack a climb all out. I don't ride in boost. I don't aim for KOMs. I do it just because it's fun. It's because I have to tell myself to ride Z2 more anyways. I usually ride my classic bike with 90% of my time split between Z3 and Z4, which makes me plateau.

A cheap steel commuter beater singlespeed I had is the only other bike that made me hit Z5 harder. I was younger then, and climbing hills on asphalt on a singlespeed kind of forces it though (52x22? whatever was stock Swobo Sanchez).


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

DtEW said:


> (Please forgive the temporary thread derailment.)
> 
> This is very interesting. My first new bike in 16-or-so years was a full-fat Levo, and so I'm fully admitting that it is hard to separate the eMTB-ness from the modern MTB-ness in my discernment. Which is why I've been considering picking up a modern (manual) Stumpy out of the idea that it would have all the traits of the Levo without the assisted motivation.
> 
> But you attest that it is a very different creature from even the Levo SL? Do you think the Stumpy Evo would be closer?


I've beefed up my SL w/ Pike 160mm, DPX2 w/cascade link somewhere around 155mm, 2.6 tires. That's why I like the SJ so much. It's more agile, poppy, light. A completely different ride.

If you're looking for a similar ride to the FF Levo w/out a motor, the SJ Evo is the one you want.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

An ebike can definitely be only bike you need. I have a spare set of wheels with road tires so I can commute to work or ride the pavement. I am then reminded quickly why I hate riding pavement and miss the dirt. i keep trying to come up with a need for a second bike but this one machine does it All. I wanted a dedicated commuter to save the knob bikes but extra set of wheels solved That. downhill, bike park, commute, gravel,,,,,e bike does it all.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

If I would have only e-bike, it would be one of the super light bikes, like Levo SL. But I can't imagine not having analog. I ride a lot for fitness, short sub one hour rides. Not to mention that many places still do not allow them, and on the easy XC trails people still look at you like a motocross clown.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Can you imagine a Levo SL hardtail that you could ride to and from those XC easy trails? A Fox Talas would be awesome to save energy on those windy days.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I've really been digging this new Fazua motor/battery system that looks like you can just remove it from the bike for analog rides, and install when you want a little help. A range extender battery would be nice though.









WILD FLOW EVO RS


WILD FLOW EVO The lightest eMTB has arrived! The Wild Flow EVO RS delivers power when it is needed. This light eMTB is redefined with the a resistance-free Fazua motor that decouples itself when not in use. it rides just like a conventional mountain bik




www.bullsbikesusa.com













FAZUA


Pioneering technology and passionate people for Better Rides.




fazua.com





.


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Something interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most mountain bikers who try an emtb will ride about 50/50 on the first year. Usually, the emtb is not as good as their shredder bike. Also, riding areas and riding buddies are still analog influenced. Then they slowly creep to 100% emtb year after year.

Something to keep in mind is emtbs require more maintenance. Many more miles and elevation and more torque on the drivetrain means these parts need more frequent replacement. And the gotcha is.... when the motor/electronics break (and they probably will at some point) there is no fixing it by yourself.

A lot of ebikers now are starting to get two+ ebikes. A lighter bike, a backup bike or a bike to loan out.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Something interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most mountain bikers who try an emtb will ride about 50/50 on the first year. Usually, the emtb is not as good as their shredder bike. Also, riding areas and riding buddies are still analog influenced. Then they slowly creep to 100% emtb year after year.
> 
> Something to keep in mind is emtbs require more maintenance. Many more miles and elevation and more torque on the drivetrain means these parts need more frequent replacement. And the gotcha is.... when the motor/electronics break (and they probably will at some point) there is no fixing it by yourself.
> 
> ...


Hey, how did that blinged out Spectral (not 7.0) get into the USA?


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Jack7782 said:


> Hey, how did that blinged out Spectral (not 7.0) get into the USA?


Media bike. I'm media i guess.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Jesus Christ. They didn't even bother painting your bike!?


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Jesus Christ. They didn't even bother painting your bike!?


Looks nicer than mine, which is too Darth Vader for my taste


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

D. Inoobinati said:


> Jesus Christ. They didn't even bother painting your bike!?


It's painted! Two-tone cement. I think...


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

Francis Cebedo said:


> It's painted! Two-tone cement. I think...


Francis, on another topic, can you ask the Canyon Rep a couple battery related questions for me?

1) Why don't they supply the BTE-80 external charging adapter plug with the bike? (need it to charge the battery off the bike)
2) Why don't they sell the battery cover plate as a spare part? (need it to make the spare practical to use)


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Jack7782 said:


> Francis, on another topic, can you ask the Canyon Rep a couple battery related questions for me?
> 
> 1) Why don't they supply the BTE-80 external charging adapter plug with the bike? (need it to charge the battery off the bike)
> 2) Why don't they sell the battery cover plate as a spare part? (need it to make the spare practical to use)


Great questions. Will do. I'm sure those are coming as Fezzari and Pivot had those same issues and released those products later. But will nudge them.

fc


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Something interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most mountain bikers who try an emtb will ride about 50/50 on the first year. Usually, the emtb is not as good as their shredder bike. Also, riding areas and riding buddies are still analog influenced. Then they slowly creep to 100% emtb year after year.


There are exceptions. I rode the Levo SL exclusively for 8 months. Had a Hightower 2, but at 32.5 pounds, it was like riding the SL w/out the motor. Very similar bikes/ride apart from the motor. Total drag.
Sold the H2.

There is something special about a 100% human powered bike though. Rode a Following V3 in Sedona for a few days back in September and re-discovered my love of a mid-travel, sub 30 pound trailbike.

Built up a '21 SJ a little over a month ago, 28 pounds and a completely different ride than the SL. Still love the SL, but doing 2-3 rides on the SJ for every one on the SL.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

I hope the power race dies down and battery longevity/weight become primary drivers. I rode new levo with 2.1 motor and could easily tow a buddy up the hill in highest mode. Some people may like that much power but I don’t care for it. In eco mode my bike is perfect and if that was the only option I had, I would be fine with that.


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## johneracer (Mar 23, 2006)

That canyon looks great! I think my next bike will be a canyon or Santa Cruz. Too many specialized in my area for my liking although that motor is buttery smooth,,,


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## durask (Nov 16, 2020)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Something interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most mountain bikers who try an emtb will ride about 50/50 on the first year. Usually, the emtb is not as good as their shredder bike. Also, riding areas and riding buddies are still analog influenced. Then they slowly creep to 100% emtb year after year.


Heh, with me it was the other way around.
Got back into biking after I rented a FS eMTB and bought one (Haibike Xduro Nduro 2.0). However, very soon realized that most trails in MA are closed to Ebikes and if I wanted to ebike I will have to drive up to New Hampshire (have a place there but don't go there that often). Then got a regular MTB and also a regular fatbike and now do 90% regular bike and 10% ebike.

The ebike that I got is still old style with a visible battery so eventually I might sell it and get a newer one that looks more like a regular bike with battery inside the frame. However, certainly not a priority.


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

Francis Cebedo said:


> Something interesting. As I mentioned in an earlier post, most mountain bikers who try an emtb will ride about 50/50 on the first year. Usually, the emtb is not as good as their shredder bike. Also, riding areas and riding buddies are still analog influenced. Then they slowly creep to 100% emtb year after year.
> 
> Something to keep in mind is emtbs require more maintenance. Many more miles and elevation and more torque on the drivetrain means these parts need more frequent replacement. And the gotcha is.... when the motor/electronics break (and they probably will at some point) there is no fixing it by yourself.
> 
> ...


I have 1400 miles on a six drivetrain.. still going strong.. so far my bike (decoy) has been less maintenance than my 2017 hightower ( damn Santa Cruz pivots!


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## Mtbvkk (Sep 13, 2017)

I had gotten a Turbo Levo last year. Loved it in parts but felt that the SL would be a better bike for me. Just found a small S-works frame in my size last weekend and pulled the trigger. Decided to sell all my 4 bikes to finance and keep the SL as my only bike. Sold my Fuse, Roubaix and about to sell my Levo. I almost sold my 2017 stumpjumper when a nagging thought came that I should probably keep it and at least try the SL with the motor off before selling it. Told the buyer to hold off. Then discovered this thread which is pretty funny. If the SL is doable with the motor turned off then I can live it for those days where I go to a bike park where e-bikes are banned. But also the 2017 SJ had the perfect geometry for me. Specialized was the only brand that fit me really well with a shorter reach but they are steadily inching up in that. Still less than many other manufacturers though. But one more reason to keep the stumpy - no bike has fit me better. I’ve had to go shorter stems and higher risers every model year it seems.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

I was actually leaning toward the idea of getting an e-bike and use it as my only bike. Then I decided to buy a motorcycle instead seeing they cost as much as some of the e-bikes out there. Don't get me wrong. I love e-bikes for what they can do but I've always been a motorcyclist at heart and it was about time I returned to my roots after a decade of not riding. My local Honda dealer actually sells Specialized e-bikes. For the price of a higher end Levo, I was able to grab a left over 2019 adventure bike and I've never been happier. My salesman actually told me someone traded their motorcycle for a Specialized e-bike a couple weeks ago. Kind of crazy (and awesome) that people will do that. 

I still have my gravel bike for exercise but my adventurous spirit leans more toward my motorcycle instead. We have a ton of fire roads and singletrack just for off-roading here in WA so I'm looking forward to hitting some dirt routes in the near future.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Battery said:


> I was actually leaning toward the idea of getting an e-bike and use it as my only bike. Then I decided to buy a motorcycle instead seeing they cost as much as some of the e-bikes out there. Don't get me wrong. I love e-bikes for what they can do but I've always been a motorcyclist at heart and it was about time I returned to my roots after a decade of not riding. My local Honda dealer actually sells Specialized e-bikes. For the price of a higher end Levo, I was able to grab a left over 2019 adventure bike and I've never been happier. My salesman actually told me someone traded their motorcycle for a Specialized e-bike a couple weeks ago. Kind of crazy (and awesome) that people will do that.
> 
> I still have my gravel bike for exercise but my adventurous spirit leans more toward my motorcycle instead. We have a ton of fire roads and singletrack just for off-roading here in WA so I'm looking forward to hitting some dirt routes in the near future.


I essentially traded my moto for my ebike. Sold my 2017 Beta 125, and bought a Bulls eMTB. I was chasing lightweight motorized single-track riding with the Beta, pretty much reached the limits of what a traditional dirt-bike could do, and just found it to be too limited, not as much fun as an MTB. The weight with the moto was the biggest issue by far. I mostly ride solo...and got myself into some really hairy situations with the moto that would have been zero issue on a bike I could lift over things and/or push uphill.

So far, I'm really enjoying the eMTB over the dirt-bike. I spent 10 years on the dirt bike thing, but have 30 years MTB experience, so it's a nice fit. I was also into "adventure" motorcycling, but have more or less decided to give that up too. It's just getting stupid out there with the distracted drivers/traffic, and having only one set of "gear" for bike riding is nice. Same clothes, tools, etc. no matter if I'm riding the MTB or eMTB.

.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

_CJ said:


> I essentially traded my moto for my ebike. Sold my 2017 Beta 125, and bought a Bulls eMTB. I was chasing lightweight motorized single-track riding with the Beta, pretty much reached the limits of what a traditional dirt-bike could do, and just found it to be too limited, not as much fun as an MTB. The weight with the moto was the biggest issue by far. I mostly ride solo...and got myself into some really hairy situations with the moto that would have been zero issue on a bike I could lift over things and/or push uphill.
> 
> So far, I'm really enjoying the eMTB over the dirt-bike. I spent 10 years on the dirt bike thing, but have 30 years MTB experience, so it's a nice fit. I was also into "adventure" motorcycling, but have more or less decided to give that up too. It's just getting stupid out there with the distracted drivers/traffic, and having only one set of "gear" for bike riding is nice. Same clothes, tools, etc. no matter if I'm riding the MTB or eMTB.
> 
> .


Makes sense! For me, cycling was my way of staying on a bike. My wife's old car was pretty much done and I decided to trade my motorcycle for a car she can drive. Over the last decade, I've found that mountain biking was really terrifying for me. I have a bad anxiety problem and I never progressed as a mountain biker. I did the same things repeatedly because my anxiety kept me from progressing. I didn't want to receive any in-person coaching but I did try online coaching which helped me with my skills, but I was still stressed over riding on harder trails. I tried road cycling for a couple years but I had a bit of anxiety due to traffic. I enjoy gravel cycling but I end up riding the same routes because of my anxiety. I gave mountain biking an honest shot and stuck with it as long as I could, but it was too much for me to mentally handle.

Plus my health problems from military service didn't do me any good. Mountain biking actually aggravated my back, knees, and feet quite regularly. Pumping caused really bad knee pains and my back couldn't handle the attack position for very long periods of time. My HR was through the roof because of stress and anxiety. I hoped that if I rode an e-bike it could cut back on some of these pains. In the end, I opted against the idea because my pains were based around utilizing proper technique which aggravated my body.

The only thing that truly made me feel better was riding a motorcycle. I feel 10x less anxious and stressed when I'm on a motorcycle. I'm just really happy that my wife agreed and let me get back on the bike a decade later. I hope to give singletrack a shot on my Honda but if that doesn't work out, I will stick with road and fire roads.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Looked up that Honda Africa Twin DCT. Reminds me of what a lot of normal people look for in a mtb too--something more capable than some hybrid that belongs mostly on pavement. These people just want to access to the bounty of nature, as opposed to life around crowds of people.


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## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Varaxis said:


> Looked up that Honda Africa Twin DCT. Reminds me of what a lot of normal people look for in a mtb too--something more capable than some hybrid that belongs mostly on pavement. These people just want to access to the bounty of nature, as opposed to life around crowds of people.


Pretty much sums it up. People go on some really insane rides with this bike. I'm really surprised how much capability an adventure bike really has. When I last rode a motorcycle, the whole concept of adventure bike was a dual sport dirt bike with a ton of gear attached. There are so many fire roads I've wanted to ride with my gravel bike but never did it. It's mostly because I'm a solo rider and it's better to link up with a group for some of these rides. I just don't do the group thing. Having an adventure bike gives me more flexibility to hit up the fire roads and take in the scenery. I actually received my dual sport tires yesterday. I'm going to order a set of heavy duty (4mm thick) inner tubes and have the Honda dealer install everything for me.

It's kind of crazy that my Honda dealer has Specialized e-bikes on the showroom floor next to their motorcycles. They do have a bike mechanic in their shop too! Pretty awesome stuff!


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## seamarsh (Mar 5, 2012)

_CJ said:


> I've really been digging this new Fazua motor/battery system that looks like you can just remove it from the bike for analog rides, and install when you want a little help. A range extender battery would be nice though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didi the same.. lasted 6 months.. bought a yz250x... both are fun!


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

seamarsh said:


> Didi the same.. lasted 6 months.. bought a yz250x... both are fun!


If I go gas powered again, It's going to be one of these. 21" wheels, 125cc, 150 pounds.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

I have both a normal bike and an ebike. Almost never ride my normal bike these days, but I don't think I want to get rid of it just yet. Even though it does not seem financially smart to have a blinged out Enduro in my shed worth $6k that I never ride. But I'm also they type of person that cannot mentally "downgrade" bikes so getting a budget pedal bike isn't really an option.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

RBoardman said:


> I have both a normal bike and an ebike. Almost never ride my normal bike these days, but I don't think I want to get rid of it just yet. Even though it does not seem financially smart to have a blinged out Enduro in my shed worth $6k that I never ride. But I'm also they type of person that cannot mentally "downgrade" bikes so getting a budget pedal bike isn't really an option.


That's going to be a $3k bike in your shed soon enough. Sell it!


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## sml-2727 (Nov 16, 2013)

Well it was 3 months ago when I started this thread and I can happily report I just put a deposit on a 2021 Trek Rail 7. Bike should arrive next week! I’m also keeping my old bike (Karate Monkey) for going on rides with my wife.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

_CJ said:


> That's going to be a $3k bike in your shed soon enough. Sell it!


That definitely goes through my mind. I'm just scared some situation will pop up where I will need a normal bike. (i.e. traveling via plane, a race I want to do that doesn't have an ebike class, my ebike catches on fire, etc).


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

RBoardman said:


> That definitely goes through my mind. I'm just scared some situation will pop up where I will need a normal bike. (i.e. traveling via plane, a race I want to do that doesn't have an ebike class, my ebike catches on fire, etc).


Sell it, and buy a POS that's already out of date and lost it's value. Or buy something totally different, like a gravel bike, or a fat bike. My "other" bike is a Surly Bridge Club. I set it up to replicate the mountain bikes we used to ride in the early 90's. Steel, rigid, flex stem, and 2.25" tires. It was $1100.00 off the showroom floor.


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