# Why no waterproof frame bags?



## live2play (Jul 7, 2011)

Transitioning from road touring to a bikepacking setup.
My touring panniers are waterproof Ortlieb's and in my search for frame bags, curious why no one makes a waterproof one?
Am I missing something?


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## Spec44 (Aug 17, 2013)

Probably has to do with all the seams and connection points that would have to be sealed. Example: some frame bags have 4,5, or more top tube straps sewed into the top of the bag. Seams (pun) that would be more difficult to reach a high enough level of water proof-ness that a manufacturer would be willing to put their reputation on the line to declare it "waterproof."


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## cgries (Aug 26, 2013)

Spec44 said:


> Probably has to do with all the seams and connection points that would have to be sealed. Example: some frame bags have 4,5, or more top tube straps sewed into the top of the bag. Seams (pun) that would be more difficult to reach a high enough level of water proof-ness that a manufacturer would be willing to put their reputation on the line to declare it "waterproof."


While I agree with this logic, I still don't understand why no one has made the effort (assuming no one has - I haven't exhaustively searched). I made my own frame bag with waterproof rain jacket material from the fabric store and seam tape I bought online. Has gone through more than a few midwest thunderstorms with no leakage. I (my wife) put a overhanging flap that protects the zipper and allows for rain to flow over. Version 2.0 will include a proper water-tight zipper (found on higher-end rain jackets, for example) and some type of backing as the material is a bit thin. While it takes some sewing know-how, you get a water-proof, custom-to-your-needs frame bag that you can't beat. And you get to pick out your favorite color!


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## breaks911 (Aug 16, 2005)

Sounds like you just need a manufacturing partner and a website


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

J.Paks LLC :thumbsup:

***


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## live2play (Jul 7, 2011)

Hopefully as this segment of the market grows, someone will produce one.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Poignant thread...

Waterproof custom frame packs with non-waterproof zippers is what I own. Read: Non-waterproof frame bags. I don't think any zipper is up to the task without a storm flap.

My Ortlieb panniers and OR drybag/harness are completely waterproof, no zippers involved. I asked a custom bag maker about a zipper-free frame bag; he sounded like it would be some engineering feat that he was unwilling to even try. WTH?

Ditch the zippers, thread warriors. They aren't waterproof, and it's a big deal when they break like one of mine has.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

She&I said:


> Poignant thread...
> 
> Waterproof custom frame packs with non-waterproof zippers is what I own. Read: Non-waterproof frame bags. I don't think any zipper is up to the task without a storm flap.
> 
> ...


A couple of makers have been experimenting with zipper-less frame bags. I don't remember where I saw it, but I think it was either Revelate or PR.


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## cgries (Aug 26, 2013)

She&I said:


> Poignant thread...
> 
> Waterproof custom frame packs with non-waterproof zippers is what I own. Read: Non-waterproof frame bags. I don't think any zipper is up to the task without a storm flap.
> 
> ...


Are you thinking of a large (i.e. 1" overhang or more) storm flap with some type of Velcro or other way of staying down? Heck, you might not even have to attach it down; it may just stay put when not stuffed full...


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## bmike (Nov 17, 2009)

Scott at PR has done a roll top...

Custom Roll-top Frame Pack for Surly Krampus - unrolled open by Porcelain Rocket, on Flickr


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

cgries said:


> Are you thinking of a large (i.e. 1" overhang or more) storm flap with some type of Velcro or other way of staying down? Heck, you might not even have to attach it down; it may just stay put when not stuffed full...


Nope, framebags that do not have any zippers, and roll up like dry bag or waterproof pannier. Found 2 versions, from PR and Revelate. No idea if these are actually waterproof, but it would be easier to make these fully waterproof than the standard zipper design.

Packlist: A light three-day trip in the desert | Off Route

https://gypsybytrade.wordpress.com/my-bikes/


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## dbhammercycle (Nov 15, 2011)

Why not use a waterproofing wash-in or spray on, like Nikwax? I would imagine that something on these lines would work well. You may have to reapply once in a while, but the options are relatively cheap. I've used products like these for coats, bags, tents, etc.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Guys, thanks a lot for the links and info. I should have known the crafty seamsters would be on the case. Good work...

dbhammer, I think the fabric in most cases is stormproof. Seams and wicking webbing might be an issue, and for them, SeamGrip is probably the product of choice for retro-treatment. 

For my bags with zippers, I will see about adding a storm flap to them before they get used again.

Cheers...


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

I think the idea behind the roll top framebags is not for waterproofing, but to eliminate the zipper, which is usually the first thing that fails on a frame bag.

I still think the best advice is anything that absolutely has to stay dry (down sleeping bag, phone, etc.) goes into a dry bag or ziplock bag, and then goes into the bikepacking bags.


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## jan_nikolajsen (Oct 28, 2011)

As bikeny said: A zipperless framebag would be very desirable; making it waterproof less so. My framebag carry stuff that for the most part doesn't need to be kept completely dry: food, fuel, headlamp, tools and tubes, etc. The rudimentary weather protection of current bags is adequate for me. But if the zipper blows I have very few options short of sewing 
the hole partially shut. The same with the darn things on my megamid, clothing, sleeping bag...


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

They also keep the moisture in so mould and stink will grow


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## Lewy (Aug 23, 2009)

Bike Bag Dude bags are waterproof. I have ridden through some heavy rain and lots of puddles with mine and they have always been dry inside.


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## abrooks (Feb 1, 2015)

I have in the past used a solution of silicone RTV thinned out with toluene. The RTV can be thinned out enough to paint on with a small brush. 
Not sure if you'll be able to get toluene off the shelf, as it's a restricted substance. If you search, I'm sure there'll be a suitable alternative. 
The beauty of this is that once the toluene has flashed off, the RTV will cure very quickly giving a flexible water tight seal.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bikepacking manufacturers are all small cottage shops [except for Blackburn and their bags didn't impress me]. They can't afford expensive RF welding equipment and the current trend in these bags is towards ultralight not Ortlieb style porkiness.

There are waterproof bar and seat bags for gear that needs to be protected like sleeping bags.

I just pack my must stay dry gear in my bar bag dry bag and throw the odd item in my frame bag that I'd like to stay dry [ie. multi-tool] in a ziplock bag.The rest of the stuff in my frame bag can get wet without issue.

My seat bag holds my tent and sleeping pad both of which don't need to stay bone dry.

When you are coming from 4 pannier loaded touring you have a whole lot of gear that you want to keep dry which you don't have on a light bikepacking trip. It's just one of the many ways that less is more and what gets people stoked about this style of bike travel.


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

Outside of heavy welded seam bags like Ortlieb, waterproofness only lasts so long before wear and stress at the seams makes it open to moisture. I believe that's the main reason you wont find many brands advertising their product as waterproof. 

That being said, most brands bags are made of waterproof fabrics and all it would take is a little silicone seam sealant to make them effectively waterproof in basically all riding conditions. You'd have to re-apply the sealant repeatedly and hydration ports and zippers would need to be designed to minimize the risk of spray entering, but they'd keep everything out except when taking a bike through a body of water.

On top of that, the day will come where you need to open your bags in the rain, and water will get in. I think it's a good idea to pack gear that needs to stay dry in a separate waterproof dry sack or plastic bags that only get opened once the tent is set up. You could use your frame bag as this "only in tent" bag, but I don't think its ideal. I like to keep regularly accessed items including snacks, water, and flat kit there.


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## fourfa (Mar 5, 2014)

I've got a full size frame bag from Wanderlust Gear on my Salsa Vaya 58cm - I requested extra width and it's absolutely enormous, lots of sail area. Anyway I'm on a tour of Italy and spent a couple weeks getting drenched daily in the mountains. The bag doesn't claim to be waterproof but so far nothing inside has been wet, even when left outside in full thunderstorm rain overnight.

I guess the next question is exactly how waterproof do you need it? I'm sure it would leak if immersed in some epic river crossing or something.


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## The Factory (Feb 27, 2013)

Try the Terrago Nano protector spray (or any other nano spray), that stuff is amazing. I still dont understand how a spray could really turn anything waterproof until i tried it for myself. I am using it on all my bike packing gear from my sleeping bag to frame bag and so forth.


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## live2play (Jul 7, 2011)

Thanks for the heads up on the spray and the Wanderlust Gear... I'll check them out. Sounds like it is plenty waterproof for me!


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## NickandBruce (Sep 18, 2014)

Porcelain Rocket posted a shot of a new welded version of the Mr. Fusion seatpack.

Edit: Proof.

__
http://instagr.am/p/32CErGhbkD/


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## Bighec (Apr 1, 2009)

Check out Oveja Negra. I recall them mentioning their frame bags being waterproof.

"MATERIALS: Choice of X-Pac® VX42 or Mil-spec Cordura® fabrics, #8 & #10 YKK® Uretek Waterproof Zippers, Closed-Cell Foam Padding, Waterproof Liner, Hypalon Reinforced Hook & Loop Straps"

Straight off of their website.


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