# Have you ever quit your job



## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

to ride your bike more?

I'm contemplating doing just that. Now I know some of you are spoiled and have the luxury of having a good job in a place that also has good riding, but I'm in Houston. I'm not sure if Houston is the armpit or the b*tthole of America, or both, but either way it sucks a** here. 

My initial thought was to move to a city where I'd have a chance to find at least a half way decent paying job and still have close access to good riding. But now I'm thinking about dedicating an entire summer to nothing but riding, so I'd want to move some place epic, like Park City for example. Where I could ride literally every day and it could potentially be weeks or months before I'd hit the same trail twice. 

So I'd like to get an idea of how much money I'd be looking at losing if I were to do this. Anyone ever taken an entire summer off and spent it riding in a resort town? I know everything will be more expensive, from housing to food and probably even gas. Also, how long is the riding season in a place like Park City? And when would be the optimum time to move there to begin this adventure? I haven't really had the opportunity to develop my pedaling legs living in a place that's flat as a pancake, so I tend to prefer DH and park riding. If I recall correctly the PC area has about 3 bike parks. I guess moving when the bike parks open would be the optimum time? 

My loose plan would be to do this and then head south into the desert come winter time to a bigger city where I could still ride and hopefully find a job. And if it were financially possible, to repeat the process the following summer in a different location. Bend, OR is on the list, or maybe somewhere in BC if I'm feeling super adventurous and can ever get over my fears of possibly running into a grizzly while out on a ride by my lonesome. 

Thoughts/input/suggestions/personal experiences?


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

Sounds like a great dream


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

This can be done. For how much money you stand to lose by not working simply take your current income and that's it, right? 

The 1st step is save as much money as you can. Then sell as much of your stuff you don't need as you can. Eliminate every monthly subscription you have...like internet stuff like netflix etc. 

You can save a pile of money by not living in a building. Can you get your hands on a used van or a pick up truck with a camper shell and live in the back of it and cook your meals on a camping stove, never eat out and reduce or eliminate beer? You could also just live out of a car using a tent. I did this for 2 months in 2007 driving all around Colorado and Utah. It worked out really well. Had I stayed in building my trip would have lasted about a week and a half. I now have a Toyota Tacoma with a camper shell that's set up for sleeping in. I'm working toward setting it up for living in a few months at a time. 

If you can find a cozy spot in a national forest and you have a vehicle you can live in I'd say you could reduce you're budget to just a few dollars per day if you're super careful. 

You should check out expeditionportal.com for more ideas on how to live out a vehicle comfortably. Don't purchase anything new, scour craigslist and check out garage sales to stretch your dollar. If you really want to stretch your dollar you could always go dumpster diving too. 

For hygiene etc maybe get a gym membership for the shower. Or use a solar shower or perhaps a portable instant hot water heater. These require a propane tank which you could also use for cooking.

You could also get a job as a server at a restaurant. The schedule is flexible, it's quick cash and you get to meet cool people. Also, often times at resort towns restaurants are looking for seasonal staff. 

The other upside to living the dirtbag lifestyle is that being outside you need stuff to do. You won't have a TV to watch however you might find yourself going to the movies more often which is a plus. But mostly you'll have fewer distractions like TV and comfy bed to keep you from riding. You're going to ride a lot more with this life style.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

It's easier to move back into your mama's basement and go ride.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

It can be done. Three years ago, I quit my teaching, tenure track job and moved to Crested Butte. Never looked back. Now, I teach online (flexible hours) and work as a freelance writer/copy editor and/or bartender whenever I need a little extra $$. I ski every day in the winter, bike every day in the summer, take months off at a time to ride in Sedona or Moab. As long as I have my laptop and internet, I can work from anywhere.

I shutter to think of what might have happened had I stayed in Denver (probably still be stuck in traffic...)

In other words, life is short. Do what you love, love what you do, and you will find a way to make it work. You will always make it work, and time is, at the end of the day, the only thing that we have that matters. Use it well. Ride hard and smile a lot...Paradise will be waiting!


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## Mr. D (Jun 1, 2008)

save money
learn to eat ramen noodles mixed with chicken and veggies
find access to free water, make new friends you can watch their animals for extra money, recycle aluminum cans and ride and ride
I am spoiled and have lived in my rv for almost a year.


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## thickfog (Oct 29, 2010)

Cool thread! Let's hear more of your stories people. Good stuff.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

Never quite a job to ride, but retired at age 55. Now
I can ride all I want.


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## evdog (Mar 18, 2007)

I haven't quit a job to ride but I had a job end on me and then not-totally-intentionally took almost 2 years off. Fortunately I was able to claim unemployment and unfortunately the job market was at its lowest point resulting in a long time off work. So in between job searches I was able to do a lot of awesome road trips. A good number of trip reports are posted on MTBR - search for them! I still rented my current place so that was a fixed cost but I reduced expenses as much as possible. When I road tripped pretty much my only incremental expense was gas. I didn't stay at campgrounds, ate most exclusively camp food and avoided any unnecessary cost. A five-week trip to CO/UT cost far less than $1k most of which was gas. It worked out pretty well I was off work 640 days, did 220 days of road trips all over the SW, 120 days local rides and 120 days or so of trail work. If you have the opportunity to take time off and travel for whatever reason, take it!!! A great quote I have heard - when you are approaching the end you will not regret not having worked more. So get out and enjoy life!


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Yup, I quit my job at the end of September and am now retired :thumbsup:
We did a road trip a few summers ago to Sun Valley, ID for a mtn bike race. One of the helpful people at the race told us where to camp in the National Forest for free and there was a great YMCA for showers. People were friendly & welcoming, the vibe was great. I'd tend to avoid places that are super tourist destinations, like Durango (where I have lived) and Moab, although they can be doable. 

Also, Austin is just a few hours east, you know. I can mtn bike every day right here in north Austin. 

Ditto on getting a van or pickup truck with camper that you can live in, or pull a small trailer. 
For the long term, think about getting a more portable skill that will translate well to a smaller city/town, such as a teaching certificate, nursing, or work that can be done on line that will support you well.

Also, once you head out on your grand adventure, you will learn about your tolerance for being self reliant, how much you need (or don't need) to be around people, how much "roughing it" in both the hot and cold works for you. 

Based on personal experience, when you get to your destination out west and first unpack your clothes, everything will seem damp. Just a reminder of exactly how humid it is in Houston and anywhere east of San Angelo!


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

I'll be honest I hadn't intended on "roughing it" quite to the extent of living in my vehicle. Although I could, I have a full size pickup truck with a camper shell already. I also have more than a years salary saved up, I just don't like the idea of squandering it all. I'm not the typical American who has to have everything, ie big house, fancy car, flashy clothes, etc etc. Hell, I don't even spend much on my bike stuff. I refuse to buy a new bike and always look on CL or PB when I need something. Right now I rent a room for only 400/mo all bills paid. This is what I had intended to do after I moved, whether it be PC or somewhere else. I don't know if I could find a room that cheap, I'll have to get on CL and see what that kind of thing is going for in the PC area. 

Snowgypsy, Crested Butte is another area I was interested in. I know they have a bike park there and the trails there look pretty awesome. Sounds like the riding there is varied, which is something I'm looking for. 

June Bug, my hatred isn't just directed toward Houston, but really all of TX. I will exclude far west TX (El Paso area) and places like Horizon City because I know they actually have proper MTB there. And no offense, but I hate Austin. It's hot and humid there, just like Houston. Traffic is bad there, just like Houston. And people there are a**holes.. just like Houston. It's basically Houston with a few hills sprinkled in. Not my style.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

uglyguy2 said:


> Snowgypsy, Crested Butte is another area I was interested in. I know they have a bike park there and the trails there look pretty awesome. Sounds like the riding there is varied, which is something I'm looking for.


CB is pretty amazing. Hartman's Rocks is down the road and a little desert, most trails are a little alpine with big climbs and even bigger descents, the mountain trails aren't many but they are all well made with new ones being built every year. All trails are pretty much ridable from your front door. And Salida, Fruita, etc. are just a car ride away during mud season. As long as you are willing to work hard and are smart with your money, it goes a long way. Rent is very affordable (I pay 1K for a 900 sq. , 2 bd, 2 bath) townhome across the street from the lifts) - most places average around 400 for a room in a house to 700 for a place all your own, and while service jobs are the norm, there are a lot of other jobs out there depending on your skill set. The best thing I ever did was to take a chance on this place. It's easy to go back or to stay where you are - but taking a chance and moving forward is when the magic happens. If you decide to stop on by, let me know. We'll show you around...once the snow melts out...


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## nutballchamp (Aug 14, 2006)

I ride South Lake Tahoe all summer every year and it's by far my favorite place to ride. I've been all over Oregon, CO, Utah and Arizona. Temps in Tahoe are perfect with a mix of tech, flow and amazing views. Best ride is Rose to Toads, 65 miles of perfect singletrack. Hard as hell with over 12K of climbing, up to 10k elevation, and about 12 hours. Crested butte would be a second for me to ride. Drawback of Tahoe is not much winter riding but the backcountry skiing/snowboarding is great.


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## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

Yup. I have 3 weeks left. My wife and I bought a new sailboat in 2010 with the plan of saving up so much money then quitting our jobs to go explore the world primarily by boat but also mountain biking along the way. We leave in mid May to head for Nova Scotia first. After that, who knows.

Our boat is basically a floating camper but can get places very cheaply by wind power but much slower. We love sailing so that is not a problem. Been sailing 40 years and Mountain biking over 25.

We had a financial goal that we estimated would take 5 years to meet but our investments have worked out better than expected and we achieved our goal in less than 4 years. My wife and I have worked steadily since graduating college 25 years ago. It is time to accumulate memories instead of wealth.

Go for it or you will someday look back and wonder why you didn't.


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## ser jameson (Jun 24, 2012)

Or move. My wife and spent almost 10 years moving around based on the trails in the area. A few hardships along the way, but always lots of single track time. You can live anwhere if your willing to go without certain things. Twice we lived in campers, one of them was so small, we had to sleep in a tent next to it. Two people, two dogs, six bikes, camping gear, and snowboarding gear.
Now we have a 3 year old and a house, but it's in a nice place, with a great trail system a 1/4 mile from my garage. If we had just taken a long vacation, we'd be right back were we started, stuck in traffic dreaming of mountains and trails.


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## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

I didn't quit my job but I did set myself up to be more flexible so I can stay active. Have computer will travel. I'm having a hard time getting my wife on board and may have to start leaving her behind.


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## Lawson Raider (Jul 24, 2006)

Was tempted many times....family, bills, and kids so here I am working for the man.


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## BCTJ (Aug 22, 2011)

I think it would be fun to do that. But, once you have family/kids - obviously, it isn't possible anymore. If you're young and single, why not? Rather than quitting, I look forward to retiring from my job in hopefully about 20 years and then its party time!! By then, my kids will be raised and my retirement money will pay for my adventures. I really have a hard time understanding the people in my office who are like 72 years old and still working.


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## supersedona (Dec 17, 2012)

When I was single right out of college I had a job 20 mi away that I would ride to 4 out of 5 days a week(left the car at work to motivate  . Due to circumstances, in May right as the xc season began, they laid me off. Prime fitness level, perfect weather, no attachments. I would work about 10 hrs a month for my landlord to pay rent, then work for a landscaper freind whenever I needed money. The rest of the time I would drive to whichever event and plant a day or two early and camp. It was a cool time for being a wanderer and the best race season I have ever had. Good times....

Nowdays I have a house, 2 cars and lots of bills. Married life recovering from layoffs during the recession. If only it were as simple to go back, but at the same time I still like having a warm dry roof and a garage to work on the bikes. Tailgate mechanics is alright for a race day or trip but a garage is a lot better.


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

likeaboss said:


> Yup. I have 3 weeks left. My wife and I bought a new sailboat in 2010 with the plan of saving up so much money then quitting our jobs to go explore the world primarily by boat but also mountain biking along the way. We leave in mid May to head for Nova Scotia first. After that, who knows.
> 
> View attachment 879486


Not to hijack the thread but I'm reading a book called "our Journals of Cruising the World on the S/V Mermaid" it's a self published book about a couple that sailed around the world from 1997-2002. I met the author in Quartzite AZ and bought a copy off her. It's just their daily routine but she makes it really interesting.

Good luck in your travels and happy sailing!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I did it to ski for a winter.

Ultimately I found that a bit empty, but I also ditched the East Coast and moved to Washington. I'm not skiing much lately but I'm riding a lot more and my life is better.

As Warren Miller said, every year you don't do it is just another year older you'll be when you finally do.


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## L8APXR (Mar 9, 2014)

uglyguy2 said:


> to ride your bike more?
> 
> I'm contemplating doing just that.... ...
> Thoughts/input/suggestions/personal experiences?


why not just go to some of those places and maybe they'll have some sort of job there where you can work x amount of hours (same as you are now or less) for $ and then ride in your free time (like now, but in a place you like more).

If you find the place with no a$$holes in it please post it up and we'll all come join you (and bring good jobs too   ).


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## L8APXR (Mar 9, 2014)

snowgypsy said:


> It can be done. Three years ago, I quit my teaching, tenure track job and moved to Crested Butte. Never looked back.


wow that sounds like a dream come true... I always thought that lift passes and ski equipment and all that stuff were really expensive; but I guess I am wrong (again, lol).

The lifestyle you describe reminds me of what I thought only trust fund kiddos, ex-wives and the wives of ex-pat workers could attain.

I seriously need to reconsider some things... I've been slaving away for years and years with not really a whole lot to show for it.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

A few years of income saved up? You could always go to Whistler for a summer. Live in Pemberton or Squamish, try to get a part-time job on the hill or in the village to cut the co$$$$t of living a bit, and ride some of the best DH trails in the world from May through to October. The pedaling stuff is pretty amazing too. You won't go broke, you'll meet people from all over the world, and you'll probably be pretty good on a bike by the end of the season.

On a related note, a couple of years ago I finished a contract in March and didn't really try to find a new gig. The powder was flying, my wife was understanding, so I bagged some great days on the slopes. Hills close down, it's now warm enough to do some road riding. Still not looking for work. Road rides slowly give way to dirt rides. An opportunity to build some trail comes up. I can still recall the smell of pine and freshly turned earth, trimming calluses with wire cutters and hearing the hoots and hollers of riders on a section that I just finished building. Did that for two months straight, and then rode for another month after that before I got the unholy stinkeye from my spouse. Best 5 months of my life, hands down. I burned through a lot of cash, as I didn't adjust my lifestyle beyond getting out of a cubicle [bills to pay, beer to drink]. I figure I have a few more years of boring work to pay off the house and bank some cash, then I'll start leaving bigger gaps between contracts.


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## otis24 (Apr 1, 2004)

I've been working in a kitchen for like 22 years. The last 12 years as a chef and the last 6 in corporate dining. You don't get to ride much when you work a minimum 60 hours a week on your feet going as fast as you can with no downtime all day. I just moved and I'm taking advantage of not having a job and riding. I've been looking for a job but my #1 priority is flexible schedule and not much time on the clock. I think I'm going to wait tables. I won't have to work a million hours and I can get time off every now and then. Sure I won't have employer based health care, 401K, and I'll make half the money I made before. But my quality of life is going to be better. No more workmares. No getting to work at 4:30AM and leaving at 9:30PM for multiple days in a row.


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## Zoo1424 (Jul 20, 2010)

I busted my a$$ for six months after college saving cash up to quit my three jobs and do a cross country road trip. Took my Schwinn High Plains mountain bike with me. Stopped and visited friends at various spots in the US. I didn't do any hard core riding as I didn't know what that was yet. (it was 1996) One of the things in life I'm most proud of doing.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

L8APXR said:


> wow that sounds like a dream come true... I always thought that lift passes and ski equipment and all that stuff were really expensive; but I guess I am wrong (again, lol).
> 
> The lifestyle you describe reminds me of what I thought only trust fund kiddos, ex-wives and the wives of ex-pat workers could attain.
> 
> I seriously need to reconsider some things... I've been slaving away for years and years with not really a whole lot to show for it.


It's more than possible. It's all about planning and staying smart with your time/money/priorities. First, depending on your skill set, telecomute and contracts are the way to go. I work when I want, however much I need to, etc. It took about two years to get established but bartending kept me afloat until then. I usually pull extra work in the winter so that I can take off in the summers and ride. To save money on the expensvie stuff, I work on the mountain 1 night a week for lift passes (summer/winter) and use gear exchange for new gear. If you can live without the things that you don't really need, anything is possible.

I get a lot of strange stares on the mountain - tourists asking where I go to school. They are a bit surprised to find that the mud-covered, duct-taped gal is actually a college professor teaching online who designs their kid's k12 English curriculum in between root drops. 
I've actually had a lot of luck with contract writing. If work keeps building like this, I might be hiring a writing intern sometime soon to help with the work load. Anyone interested in curriculum design and copy editing? I'll have to see if this next contract bears fruit, but if so...We can work after we're done riding. :thumbsup:


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I agree with snowgypsy on contract work. Paid by the hour or the job, turn down bad clients once you're established, pay less tax as a small business. The downside is sometimes unpredictable work, but you can plan for that.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Much like Snowgypsy pointed out, rather than quitting your job to bike (or whatever), which is a short term fix, get a job that allows you the freedom to do what you want. I have a buddy who's a fireman. Works hard for a few days and then gets a few days off to play. Nurse anesthetists get flexible hours. Airline work, etc.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I am currently working for the man, but I have a flexible job. I work 8-4 Monday - Friday with a 30 minute lunch. As of now, I can get off work and I have time for a 30 mile mountain bike ride in the evenings. Yesterday, I went out to do some trail work 5 miles from my house. I can start from home, ride 3 miles to the singletrack, to two different directions, and can do 30 mile loops at each of these locations. I have to ride forest service roads or some pavement to make these loops, but I cannot complain. I can also do some great road biking here too. If I wanted, I could take a two hour lunch and go for a ride then or a spin class. I'm not going to get rich in my profession, but it does allow me to enjoy life and pay my bills. Good luck in your journey.


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## joeduda (Jan 4, 2013)

snowgypsy, i think i love you! LOL, you did exactly what i should have done 25 years ago when i had the opportunity. but i have no regrets, i love my job and have a good family to show for it. I strongly believe in being a productive member of society, as you have done, getting the best of both worlds. Sking at CB every day would be a dream come true. 

OP this advice comes from a cancer patient thats future is very uncertain, live every day like it may be your last. but live it with purpose and goals. Go out there and find work that will give you the flexiblity to do the things you enjoy.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

*Unasked advice!*



uglyguy2 said:


> June Bug, my hatred isn't just directed toward Houston, but really all of TX. I will exclude far west TX (El Paso area) and places like Horizon City because I know they actually have proper MTB there. And no offense, but I hate Austin. It's hot and humid there, just like Houston. Traffic is bad there, just like Houston. *And people there are a**holes.. just like Houston*. It's basically Houston with a few hills sprinkled in. Not my style.


Well, hopefully not all of us  and I don't take this personally! :thumbsup:

Actually, I like your approach. You've saved up $$, live frugally, you know you want to rent a room rather than camp, etc.

Perhaps it is time to do the Grand Tour Out West, travel and see what appeals, what the job prospects are, small town vs medium town, vs city vs large city.

Can you take time off work and do a blitz two or three week trip to check things out before a big move? I'm guessing you might want to do this before the hideousness of Houston Summer 2014 sets in.

What are your winter preferences? Do you want to ride year round or would you be happy with snowy winters? Many places in the west (Colorado Plateau) will allow you have relatively temperate summers, but get to lower, even warmer elevations to ride in the winter, yet head to high elevations for cooling relief in the summer.

Do you mind hot dry summers as a tradeoff to being able to ride all winter?

Do you want to be able to ride from your door, or would driving to a trail head be acceptable?

Also, long range (perhaps very long range), do you want to own your own house? There are many, many places where this will be out of reach forever. If the entry level cost for a dump is $300,000 or more, this will rule some places out, and will also be reflected in the high cost of rentals.

Do you need access to a community college/ college/university to continue your education or develop more marketable skills?

What kind of mtn biking makes you happy? Park, alpine settings, desert, super technical? Lush or arid? Does it matter?

In terms of political/cultural environment, do you need conservative/church & family oriented community, or more liberal? *Believe me, this matters in the immediate future as well as long term.*

Set up a matrix with these variables and any others you can think of that are really important to you & you can begin to narrow down what will work for you. For example, Phoenix (or even Tucson) may seem like Houston with an arid climate.

I know a few, very few, people who consider Houston a viable place to live. They are native Texans with very, very good jobs or a plush retirement. I personally would go nuts just trying to get OUT of Houston to go (drive) anywhere else.

I'm a Texan, but I lived in southwestern Colorado for 17 years or so, but don't miss the long-ish winters at 7,000'. When i returned to Texas, I realized that I still had good friends here who kept a place set at the table for me; I was never able to form the types of deep, long-term friendships there that I have here. 
Of course, your mileage WILL vary!

Anyway, all things to consider. Keep us up to date on your adventures.

I've just retired and Mr. JB will do so in October. We're in somewhat of a similar situation with being free to travel soon, but not sure exactly how we want to go about it. Take shorter duration trips, go away for the summer to one place, hit the road for two months?


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

OP,

I've quit every job I've ever had for more freedom and recreation. Isn't that what jobs are for? Make some dough then go have some fun? If you're single, able bodied and relatively financially unencumbered (by all accounts you are), the answer surely is yes. Career drones will disagree.

Quit piddling around and do it before some reason (GF, illness, injury, killer $ op) comes along to derail the plan. The details really don't matter all that much. That you have an irrepressible passion for riding is all you truly need. Jeez, you have money and lodging/transpo already; people have successfully embarked on dirtbag existences with neither.

I wanna read a thread from you about how it's done, or how you did it, are doing it, et cetera. Enough with the cathartic posting. Get on it, son. Have fun with it. Let us know when you roll thru SoCal and we'll hit some dirt.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

MSU Alum said:


> Much like Snowgypsy pointed out, rather than quitting your job to bike (or whatever), which is a short term fix, *get a job that allows you the freedom to do what you want.* I have a buddy who's a fireman. Works hard for a few days and then gets a few days off to play. Nurse anesthetists get flexible hours. Airline work, etc.


In my very few experiences skiing at Purgatory (now Durango Family Resort), riding the lift I met a nurse who worked three 12-hour shifts/week, followed by four days off and someone who worked for the airline in Durango, but commuted DAILY from Phoenix on the same airline. Didn't do much resort skiing; it was too expensive. Besides, cross country skiing was free.

I've also met a surgical nurse who worked for a brain surgeon in Santa Fe; she worked long days but only two days/week and made quite good money. She had a lovely little cabin ~ about 30 miles outside of Santa Fe, and rented a room in SF for the night that she needed to stay in town for work. She kvetched quite a bit about aspects of her work situation, which was shocking to me. How could anyone be bothered by anything (no matter how annoying/distressing) happening only two days/week?

I worked as an archaeologist for the years that I lived in SW Colorado. Other friends that wanted to continue living there ended up getting teaching certificates or went to work for the National Parks/Forest Service/BLM, often seasonally; others got advanced degrees in Museum Studies/Anthro as a way to get on full time/permanent with a government agency. What works in your 20s/30s will likely change as you get older.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

She&I said:


> I wanna read a thread from you about how it's done, or how you did it, are doing it, et cetera. Enough with the cathartic posting. *Get on it, son*. Have fun with it. Let us know when you roll thru SoCal and we'll hit some dirt.


I second this! Get on it and then share your experiences and new found wisdom with us :thumbsup:


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## trailbrain (Feb 22, 2005)

John Kuhl said:


> Never quite a job to ride, but retired at age 55. Now
> I can ride all I want.


Nice! Mind if I ask how you got there and retired that early?


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## Goldberm (Oct 4, 2013)

great thread. although it makes me feel like I'm trapped. With my mortgage, 3 kids under 8, school loans, job and a wife, I don't have the flexibility that y'all keep mentioning. 

My own personal wants and needs are way down on my priority list right now. I am only 37, but I am begining to structure my life to be able to retire before 60. Then, maybe I'll get to be a gypsy too (ooh how I envy that lifestyle).

For now, I have to make do with stealing 2 hours here and there to go ride my local trails.


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## forkboy (Apr 20, 2004)

uglyguy2 said:


> to ride your bike more?
> 
> I'm contemplating doing just that. Now I know some of you are spoiled and have the luxury of having a good job in a place that also has good riding, but I'm in Houston. I'm not sure if Houston is the armpit or the b*tthole of America, or both, but either way it sucks a** here.


Houston was my favorite place to leave.

DO it. I left Houston a long time ago, after spending 3 of the most miserable years of my life in that hate-filled sweat puddle.

I have NEVER ONCE thought "Gosh I miss my shithole on Westheimer".

Sell all your crap on Craigslist, get a good sleeping bag and pad for the back of your truck, and never look back.

That said, go eff yourself. I might be "spoiled" to have a good job in a place that has good riding, but it required working my ass off, and making a large number of sacrifices over more years than I care to remember.


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## clydecrash (Apr 1, 2005)

uglyguy, Lot's of advice here, but getting back to taking a summer off--if you have the mind set and can live cheaply (which it sounds like you do), then go. This coming from someone who was so much into his profession in his 20's and 30's, that I would never of thought of doing that. Into my 40's and I thought of it more and more. In my 50's, well, I may be retiring at age 57, and then trail ride almost every day.

A summer to just have fun--trails, beer, friends, romance (or something similar). Do it.  You won't spend all your money because you are not that type of person. And search around the ol internet for possible places to work and ride when you are done with your time off.

I have known a lot of people who have taken a summer, year, or couple of years off, or gone on trips overseas to work or play, and I have not found one of them who regretted it. I know some who wish they had gone, like me. No regrets, but would have liked to done it for that short time just for the fun and experience.

Post back on how it is going. It is fun to read how much fun people are having on their adventure.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I kinda did. I was working in a professional entry level job loosely related to my education and it sucked badly. I packed on weight because I spent so much time sitting and driving, I was away from home so much that I barely saw my girlfriend (that I was planning to propose to), and when I WAS home, I was so exhausted that I didn't even want to ride and I actually had a couple of halfway decent trails nearby to ride.

I quit that job to work at a bike shop 3 miles away on a more reasonable schedule, for less money because it gave me the ability to spend time with my now wife and actually ride some.

I didn't go totally off my rocker and move to a hippy bike town, though.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

NateHawk said:


> I didn't go totally off my rocker and move to a hippy bike town, though.


Because midwesterners just don't do that, right?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

June Bug said:


> Because midwesterners just don't do that, right?


You and I both know that a lot do to go somewhere they perceive as being more interesting. It is a little surprising how many come back because they realize what they miss


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## kjlued (Jun 23, 2011)

I don't a free life like some people here but about 6 years ago I quit a job that I loved and made really good at because I hated where I lived. I moved to the mountains of Western NC without a job or place to live. After getting up and falling on my face a few times, I finally got a job making half as much money as I used to but it gives me some freedoms, the benefits are good and I am happy. 

If you are single without kids, there is no reason not make a drastic life change. You would be surprised with how much less you can live with.


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## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

I'm 20 and recently quit my 50+ hour a week landscaping job in early August. I quit mainly because I also attend college full-time and my grades were falling because all I was doing was working and biking (not nearly enough though). Another factor was that I knew the job wasn't going to lead anywhere (I was making $13 an hour when I quit). 

I have no regrets about quitting and my grades have improved as has the frequency of my rides. I already have two degrees and I'm a few classes away from obtaining a third. For the past two years my plan has been to obtain a bachelor's in business administration and then move out of MA and try to get a decent-paying (but lame) office job. 

A few weeks ago my old lacrosse coach contacted me. He owns a landscaping company in a nearby town that has been experiencing huge growth and he is absolutely loaded (he drives a hummer, has a porsche, custom built two gorgeous houses). So he contacted me to see if I would be interested in coming to work for him as a licensed applicator (pesticides, herbicides, all that mumbo jumbo). 

At first I was thinking "no way, i need to finish up my last few classes, transfer, and get then finish a bachelors degree" but then he mentioned the starting pay and the hours. The hours are 630-4 M-F and occasional Saturdays. Pay starts at $18 with full benefits. I initially told him I needed a few days to think it over but called him the next day and said I was on board. 

I'm now licensed and start working this Monday. Reading some of the comments in this thread is making me think I definitely made the right choice and I am incredibly amped for the future. I will have plenty of time to ride every day after work and the shop is within 20 minutes of a dozen awesome trail networks. 

Yeah, I'm not going to be making a ton of money but it will be more than enough to live well. Also, it doesn't hurt that my parents repeatedly remind me that if I decide against transferring they are going to give my the remaining money in my college fund in order to help me in my endeavors. They both understand that I'm not really looking to lead the typical life and get some boring office job. I love being outside, enjoy physical labor, and literally get sick if I'm cooped up for too long or too often. 

I say screw the mainstream


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## Luis M. (Jun 9, 2013)

Joeduda , Excellent post! And I would like to add... Balance in life is everything. It's easy for life to get out of balance one way or the other.Too much play is no good either. Best wishes on your recovery.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

Sure Trailbrain, Back in 1977 I went to work for the Navy/DOD. When I worked
for them you could retire at age 55 if you had 30 years. I had 32 years at 55 so I
retired. However they don't do it that way anymore.


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## Goldberm (Oct 4, 2013)

shredjekyll said:


> I'm 20 and recently quit my 50+ hour a week landscaping job in early August. I quit mainly because I also attend college full-time and my grades were falling because all I was doing was working and biking (not nearly enough though). Another factor was that I knew the job wasn't going to lead anywhere (I was making $13 an hour when I quit).
> 
> I have no regrets about quitting and my grades have improved as has the frequency of my rides. I already have two degrees and I'm a few classes away from obtaining a third. For the past two years my plan has been to obtain a bachelor's in business administration and then move out of MA and try to get a decent-paying (but lame) office job.
> 
> ...


I hate to say this, but I'm compelled to. It sounds like you really sold out. And quite cheaply. You are giving up the advanced degree paid for by your parents' fund and the potential career it'll bring for a job that will have you working 6 days a week whenever the weather is nice enough to enjoy it.

18$/hr may sound like a lot when you're young and living with mom & dad, but you won't always be young. And if you throw away the education you paid for, and your future education/career to spray chemicals for your old coach, there's a good chance you'll always live with mom & dad. BTW, you'll be working every sunny Saturday.

You quit landscaping once before for a reason, you'll likely want to again.

You're not screwing the mainstream, it sounds like the mainstream is about to screw you.


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## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

Goldberm said:


> I hate to say this, but I'm compelled to. It sounds like you really sold out. And quite cheaply. You are giving up the advanced degree paid for by your parents' fund and the potential career it'll bring for a job that will have you working 6 days a week whenever the weather is nice enough to enjoy it.
> 
> 18$/hr may sound like a lot when you're young and living with mom & dad, but you won't always be young. And if you throw away the education you paid for, and your future education/career to spray chemicals for your old coach, there's a good chance you'll always live with mom & dad. BTW, you'll be working every sunny Saturday.
> 
> ...


1. I don't live with my mom or my dad (they are divorced) I live with my girlfriend in a two-floor very nice condo that is peaceful, quiet, and 1250/month
2. I can still easily obtain a bachelors degree whenever I want (it would be especially doable if I went the online route, which a professor recently suggested, apparently a local college has a program that I am qualified for which would require only one more year of classes)
3. I will NOT be working every sunny Saturday. I probably wont work many at all. My boss is already aware that I have multiple bike events scheduled for saturdays this year and he thinks that is "awesome"
4. There is a huge difference between the company I used to work for and the company I work for now. The company I used to work for is the largest landscaping company in the U.S and I was in their maintenance division. I spent my days mowing, installing trees, weed whacking, mulching, installing hardscapes, and other labor-intensive tasks. At my new job I will spend most of my time driving from account to account and then simply pushing around a spreader. 
5. One of my older brother's friends (he is 22) has been working at this new company for 3 years now and makes 28/hour as a licensed applicator/sales coordinator. 
6. I should have mentioned that I am enrolled in 5 classes right now and 5 in the fall. So its not like I'm completely discontinuing my education immediately.
7. I see your points but when you assume you make an ass out of u and me.

Also, I'm still worried about the job market. My cousin graduated from Northeastern this past year with a degree in Mechanical Engineering and a 3.4gpa and is working for the DPW in his town for 14/hour right now as he searches for something more suited to the hundreds of thousands of dollars his education cost. My oldest brother graduated from UConn three years ago with a Master's in accounting and his CPA and is now only making 70k a year and ABSOLUTELY HATES his job and is borderline depressed because of it.


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## Goldberm (Oct 4, 2013)

Great. thaks for the clarification.

Please don't stop with the education. It is very hard to start back up again once you stop. Education provides intangible benefits that go far and above potential earning prowess.

You are right. I am sorry for the incorrect assumtion. I assumed you lived with your parents based on the info you provided regarding them funding your school and "endeavors". 

Goodluck in all you do. I am a father of three and my parenting instincts were activated when I read your post. 

It sounds like you're making a more informed decision than I thought. My apologies.


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## GelatiCruiser (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm "only" 37 and I already regret having not traveled to do cool **** like ride bikes, ski, camp, enjoy nature, etc...


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## trailbrain (Feb 22, 2005)

John Kuhl said:


> Sure Trailbrain, Back in 1977 I went to work for the Navy/DOD. When I worked
> for them you could retire at age 55 if you had 30 years. I had 32 years at 55 so I
> retired. However they don't do it that way anymore.


I figured it was something like this. Congrats on the retirement.


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## spicoli-ss (Jun 6, 2005)

This guy did just that, but with surfing...

Instagram


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## shredjekyll (Jun 3, 2012)

GelatiCruiser said:


> I'm "only" 37 and I already regret having not traveled to do cool **** like ride bikes, ski, camp, enjoy nature, etc...


I hear this way too often from older individuals (30+) you still have plenty of time but I want a job with no after-hours baggage so that when Im done for the week I am free to take off and do everything you just said... often


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## PrincipalRider (Jun 24, 2005)

I am leaving my current position for something more flexible. One of the main reasons, I want to ride more.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

College classes and a Master's program were relatively easy for me from 29-31. However, I wasn't married yet, don't own a house, and don't have children.

I think more of us could stand to drop out of the "educational cannon." I've met way too many people who had a little brains and a little talent and were a little too agreeable, and let it launch them into a life they didn't want, or at least not yet. A lot of other countries' cultures incorporate a year or so of screwing around before buckling down and getting one's bachelor's. I think that's a great idea. I launched through my BA at the traditional time, and that wasn't terrible, but I sometimes wonder what choices I'd have made differently, especially when I was looking at earning my Master's in engineering.


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## Kiwi_GR_Biker (Nov 17, 2012)

I quit multiple jobs to travel when I was in my twenties but then the big OE (overseas experience) is kind of a rite of passage for kiwis. I would live and work and save for months at a time and then when I had enough money saved I would quit my job and head off on the next adventure. I recall hiking in Nepal and some fellow tourists asking "How do you get so much time off work?" They were very career minded and simply couldn't fathom taking more than two weeks leave or heaven forbid actually quitting your job. They were shocked that I was traveling for 6 months.

Depending where you go you can live very cheaply. It actually costs a reasonable amount of money to go to work everyday, commuting, fuel, lunch, coffee etc it all adds up. Plus you feel so tired and beat up from working you feel you need to reward yourself with fancy dinners in expensive restaurants/bars etc. The fruits of your labour as it were. 

If you just want to go ride everyday your daily costs will be much lower.

I say go for it. Depending where life leads you there may not be another opportunity to take a whole summer off for riding so do it while you can. There will always be another job.


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm really torn on this decision. I had a thought just now though. I have roughly 2+ weeks of vacation. I could use all of it at once this summer and spend as much time in Park City as I can. Hopefully that would be enough to get my fix of proper MTBing for the year and then I could stay here until next summer and continue to save as much as I possibly can. I should be able to put around 12K aside for the year if I watch my spending. 

Another (possible) option is a transfer at work. I was supposed to be transferred to Reno last year, that would have been amazing, and clearly it would have been too good to be true because it never happened. Employer still claims they are opening the site, but can't say when, and it was supposed to open last August so I don't buy it. We do however have a location SE of Los Angeles. Not world class riding, I know, but better than in TX for sure. There'd be all kinds of riding within 2 hours or less, including a lift access bike park. This might not even be an option though, because I don't even know if they'd have room for me at the other location. 

Still though, if I do bail on the job I'm definitely going to Park City for the summer. Can't stop watching videos of the trails there, they have everything I could want. It would truly be an epic summer.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

uglyguy2 said:


> Still though, if I do bail on the job I'm definitely going to Park City for the summer. Can't stop watching videos of the trails there, they have everything I could want. It would truly be an epic summer.


Go to Park City for two weeks this summer, check it out and see if reality lives up to fantasy. Come back to Houston, have a nice heart to heart with your boss about realistic potential for transfers to Cali or Nevada or wherever and when. If they know you might leave the company, perhaps they'll work to keep you on in a new location. 
Go dip your toes in the water at Park City and see if the reality meets the fantasy.

Sounds like you are not quite ready to cut ties/burn bridges with your job. 
Save, save, save your $$ and you'll be able to have fun and not worry about $$ for awhile when you do see Houston in the rear view mirror for the last time.

Or just go to Park City and never come back.


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

June Bug said:


> Or just go to Park City and never come back.


There's a good chance the two week vacation could result in just that, hah.

And it's not that I'm not ready to cut ties with my job, it's just I know I won't be able to make what I'm making now anywhere else. By no means do I make "good money", but for someone with no degree and a background consisting mostly of manual labor, making close to 40K a year base pay isn't bad at all. If I can even find a job in a town that is close to good riding I'd be looking at a starting pay rate of 10-12/hr. I've been there before, I remember how hard it is to stay afloat making that little of money, and I don't ever want to go back to that. At least now, being as thrifty as I usually am, I can put away a decent amount of money each month. In all honesty I wish I had a crappy job that didn't pay jack sh*t, it would make this decision so much easier. Hell, there wouldn't be anything to think about, I'd already be gone.


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## michaeldorian (Nov 17, 2006)

Life is about choices. Rarely can you have your cake and eat it too. Took me a long time to figure that out. I live in the pacific northwest where the riding is amazing, but had one of those jobs that seem to suck the life out of you. To make it worse, here you have to really make it count. When it's not raining you need to go. But work always got in the way. I rode maybe once a week if that. Work or family always got in the way. So something had to give. 

Last year, I left my job at Microsoft to ride more. I had great career trajectory and was making great money. I was just on the cusp of making senior management. But at the end of the day, after 5 years I came to the realization that I wasn't happy and none of that stuff mattered. I was just getting older and wasting away in an office. I want to be one of those 60 year old guys that rip and the only way to do that was to gain the skills while you're still relatively young.

I was packing the bank, but was absolutely miserable. I had neck pains, back pains and I was grumpy all the time for no reason. I thought back about when was I actually happy? And I remembered that the best memories were just you and good company about to drop into into a line after slogging up a climb. When at that moment in time, nothing really mattered. I knew I had to make a a change. I knew I needed more of this. 

It was hard decision. Some people consider this type of job the pinnacle of your career. Especially working in tech. Facebook, Microsoft, Google that's end game stuff. So I decided. The job had to go. 

A year later, I will tell you, it was the best decision I've ever made. It was the first time in my life where I made a decision where money was not a factor. The feeling of freedom you gain from that can't be bought. The feeling that you made a decision for life, for YOU and not for some material thing is absolutely awesome. 

Last year, I progressed my riding more than I have in the last 5 years of riding here and there while working. Sometimes I joke that smashing double blacks at Whistler cost me 150K, but you know what? I've never been happier. 

Now, I've structured my life around what makes me happy, not what society claims you should be doing or what defines success. I've built a small consulting business that allows me to ride, pay the bills and enjoy the outdoors and riding has also allowed me to focus more on what I really want to do with work find passion again. 

Live the dream my friend. It's possible. If you're ever in Seattle, lets ride.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

uglyguy2 said:


> There's a good chance the two week vacation could result in just that, hah.
> 
> And it's not that I'm not ready to cut ties with my job, it's just I know I won't be able to make what I'm making now anywhere else. By no means do I make "good money", but for someone with no degree and a background consisting mostly of manual labor, making close to 40K a year base pay isn't bad at all. If I can even find a job in a town that is close to good riding I'd be looking at a starting pay rate of 10-12/hr. I've been there before, I remember how hard it is to stay afloat making that little of money, and I don't ever want to go back to that. At least now, being as thrifty as I usually am, I can put away a decent amount of money each month. In all honesty I wish I had a crappy job that didn't pay jack sh*t, it would make this decision so much easier. Hell, there wouldn't be anything to think about, I'd already be gone.


Maybe it's time to get a degree.

I've lost a couple jobs, and I've always rebounded to something better for me. Most recently, I lost a job when the economy freaked out in 2009. I moped for a while and then decided to earn a Master's in Engineering. (Already had a BA in something else.) It was work, and I owe some money for it, but I'm now doing a much more interesting job than I had before, and the control over my life I have now and consistency of my income are both a lot better. I'm happier, riding more, etc. etc.

I find myself eating a sandwich at a pizza restaurant before going back to work on a Sunday evening, which is a bit of a flashback, but this is the first time in close to a year at my new job. It was probably at least a monthly thing doing event production.


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## MrMentallo (Apr 10, 2013)

otis24 said:


> I've been working in a kitchen for like 22 years. The last 12 years as a chef and the last 6 in corporate dining. You don't get to ride much when you work a minimum 60 hours a week on your feet going as fast as you can with no downtime all day. I just moved and I'm taking advantage of not having a job and riding. I've been looking for a job but my #1 priority is flexible schedule and not much time on the clock. I think I'm going to wait tables. I won't have to work a million hours and I can get time off every now and then. Sure I won't have employer based health care, 401K, and I'll make half the money I made before. But my quality of life is going to be better. No more workmares. No getting to work at 4:30AM and leaving at 9:30PM for multiple days in a row.


I'm in the exact situation right now. I have 10 years as an executive chef and am also a level one sommelier. I divorced, quit my job, drank bourbon and rode for a month until I couldn't afford ramen. Then I picked up a waiting tables at night job and wash dishes and prep during the day at a wine bar. With overtime, I make as much money as I did as an exec, have a quarter of the responsibility and have two days off in a row (_in a row_!) a week. I couldn't be happier. The only bad part of the job is cleaning the crappers in the morning. Only the owner knows my job history and I suspect the KM has figured out that I know more than it seems. I'd like to keep it that way.

BTW, if you ever come to Austin, TX, drop me a line. I'll cook for you and show you around some top notch trails.


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Maybe it's time to get a degree.


This has never really been a viable option for someone like me. I have no interest/passion in any particular career field, and I think that is something that is crucial if you're considering higher education. Also I cannot go to school full time for any length of time (have to work a full time job to sustain myself), so the reality is it would take me years and years and years to earn any kind of degree that would take me anywhere. It would probably take years just to earn an associates degree taking online classes part time, and I wouldn't earn any higher of a starting pay rate with one than I would without IMO.

I'm 32 and feel like I'm aging in dog years. Pretty sure the higher education ship has sailed.

Jobs just don't pay enough IMO. Even for those with a degree, I've seen job postings while browsing in the past for positions that require a bachelors degree with a starting pay rate of 12/hr. I mean WTF. If I put forth that much time, effort and money into getting an education and someone offered me 12 bucks an hour I'd be pissed.


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

Something else came to mind I don't think anyone has addressed. For those of you who have taken time off to ride, what did you do for health insurance? Mountain biking is a pretty dangerous activity, especially when you have absolutely no skill whatsoever such as myself. Everyone is saying how cheap I can live without a job... until I break something and have to pay medical expenses out of pocket.


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## bobby_tables (Nov 8, 2010)

I have the exact same story as @michaeldorian above, although I left a different F500 company and have been consulting/contracting for ~10 years now. It's a rollercoaster ride for sure and I definitely have not regretted it, even in low periods. But that's for another story...

Regarding health insurance, whatever you do, do not forego health insurance. It will bite you in a** faster than you realize. When you go to buy health insurance for yourself, you will find out how insane our system is in 5 minutes flat. The ACA does go a lot further to help individuals out, but it's still a system that is designed for and rewards large group pools. I would suggest looking into the health exchanges the ACA has setup in your state and at least purchase something that will cover "catastrophic" injuries. With the ACA system (forget the belly-aching you hear on TV), you at least have a centralized place to see various plans at different price points in front of you. Before that, calling up all kinds of different providers, getting accurate rates, etc was a major pain. However, with insurance, your experiences will vary from state to state.

As far as dental goes, it's a craps shoot. For me, I use a discount plan my local dentist offers. It's not great, but it covers essentials like cleanings and cuts down on out-of-pocket expenses. Again, the situation will be different from state to state.

As for jobs not paying enough, it's not necessarily that wages are down, it's just that they haven't kept up with the rising cost of living. I don't want to take the thread down a political black hole, just know that you aren't the only person experiencing less spending power. White or blue collar, for most of us, our salaries do not go as far as they used to go. It's an unfortunate environment that we all have to deal with now.

32 is still young.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

uglyguy2 said:


> This has never really been a viable option for someone like me. I have no interest/passion in any particular career field, and I think that is something that is crucial if you're considering higher education. I'm 32 and feel like I'm aging in dog years. Pretty sure the higher education ship has sailed.


Most community colleges have certificate programs: carpentry, plumbing, HVAC, electrician, anything that could be a portable skill. Being a self employed handy man can be very lucrative in some areas.

I met a woman who lived in a small ski town in SW Colorado who developed a business around vacation homes, cleaning and attending to all the things that absentee owners of vacation homes needed done, and then getting the homes ready for when the owners came to town and even while they were in town.

Some people do snow removal in the winter and landscaping in the summer.

You are wise to consider health insurance; big medical bills can torpedo any bank account. Perhaps you can access Obamacare after a change in which your health insurance status. Might be worth checking out.

It is wise on your part to realize that you need a big change; best wishes for you going forward!


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

I always was a bit skeptical of certificate programs. I actually have a certificate in lighting technology that I picked up along the way. The knowledge has been useful, but not the piece of paper. I suspect that like some of the more over-subscribed Masters' degree programs, they're worthwhile for people who are already doing that job and/or can get someone else to pay for them. I also see them (call me a snob if you like) as being mostly a certificate in making money for someone else. Granted, some people take certificates in different trades and parlay them into pretty good careers as independent contractors. But unless they help you get a needed license, I don't know how important or useful they are even then vs. working for an established independent for the same amount of time and getting paid to learn the job.

It's true that a BA doesn't get much of a starting salary bump. But they're supposed to get much better growth over time. That one doesn't get discussed as much because people's outcomes are so variable. But I think it's worth a look. Since I have a BA, I had about a year and a half's classes to make up before I could apply to engineering school. I did most of them at community college and got by on unemployment and whatever work I could find. Obviously a little different situation for someone who quits, but since the economy's not so sucky right now, you could probably put together enough part-time work if you wanted to. I was 28 when I started that. It's not like it's too old, especially since it's not a labor gig. You'll be surprised how much easier it is for you to take classes compared to some dumb kid right out of high school. If it's just about money, colleges are under-producing graduates with STEM degrees. Those are worth $50000+ right out of school.

Some of the trades do really well. Switching to a trade instead of a labor gig would be a big jump. Especially something protected by a licensing requirement or a union. Established stagehands I worked with mostly did pretty well, except that they still got swept up in economic freakouts.

Of course, earning a degree requires some motivation. And school will still be there in another couple years. The only thing I'll buy into as a real deal-breaker is if someone has dependants. Part-time jobs, community college, and borrowing from the Feds (preferably just for the last little bit) take care of the rest. Also keep in mind that you don't pay taxes while you're in school unless you're making a ton of money elsewhere. Kind of miss that now that I'm full-time again. 

When I did my ski bum winters, I was carrying single-payer health insurance. I was doing freelance stagecraft and occasionally rescuing people from their home improvement disasters at the time, so needed to anyway. Yes, it's pricy. Probably worse now since the insurance companies rammed through a few rate increases when ACA passed and before it kicked in. Hate those guys! And I think/hope that Obama and the Dems are on the right side of history, but it was a bad moment. Since I'm in a full-time gig now, I haven't really looked at my state's exchange. I hear good things about it, but I'm in a Blue State. The Feds have an exchange for your state if it doesn't already have its own.

Anyway, whatever you do, it doesn't sound like your current life is what you want. So, good luck!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

This is always a complicated topic.

I've met people who say "life is too short to work in a cubical, quit your job" but they don't tell you they are supported by a spouse who is a doctor, nurse or chemical engineer making six figures. 

I've met people who say "have skills that are in demand and you can dictate your work schedule" but they are doctors or program developers who can work from home or earn so much in a day that they wouldn't need to work the rest of the week. Sorry folks, I didn't take your path, so your advice is null.

I've also met people who say "do what you love and the rest will come" but they are also 50 years old and have 6 weeks of a vacation they rarely use. 

As a guy nearing 30, who took a non-traditional path to a so-so Bachelors Degree, lack of career stability and a nice solid work history have always come back to bite me. I worked a different job nearly every year for 8 years while I slowly pursued my education. Each job paid a little better, had a bit more flexibility, but ultimately was not something I wanted to make a career out of. Now I've got the job I love, but flexibility is limited to coming in at 7am or 8am. 

So now the problem is this, I've got to KEEP this job long enough to get the next job. This is a problem for my generation. We typically have a resume filled with 1-2 year positions as we live various places and do various things trying to find a balance.

The balance for me (and my generation) is not one of materials things vs employment. I know many young people are perfectly fine living with a cheap car, no tv, no cable, living on a shoestring budget. The balance of my generation is stability vs income. We can generate lots of income or be really frugal and save lots, but we inevitably blow all our savings on traveling or moving across the country. So many of my peers are having this dilemma. "I want to quit my job, sell my car, sell my house, and move to San Francisco, but I'll be starting from the bottom in both my career and savings account."

I really think the key is to move while your able or have a spouse/partner who wants to move. My future wife is 110% supportive of us moving anywhere that is warm and if I want to drive a $900 car for the rest of my life, never own a TV, and spend all my money on bikes she wouldn't care, but we both are adamant about positions ourselves to handle the stress of "starting anew." This means getting some solid experience, demonstrating stable work habits, paying off debt, and buying luxury items like cars,bikes, camping equipment and furniture that will last through periods low income. So when we move to paradise we have "the stuff" necessary to enjoy it.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

uglyguy2 said:


> This has never really been a viable option for someone like me. I have no interest/passion in any particular career field, and I think that is something that is crucial if you're considering higher education. Also I cannot go to school full time for any length of time (have to work a full time job to sustain myself), so the reality is it would take me years and years and years to earn any kind of degree that would take me anywhere. It would probably take years just to earn an associates degree taking online classes part time, and I wouldn't earn any higher of a starting pay rate with one than I would without IMO.
> 
> I'm 32 and feel like I'm aging in dog years. Pretty sure the higher education ship has sailed.


As a professor and someone who has spent more time in the classroom than I'd like to admit, getting a degree just to get a degree is the worst thing you could do - especially in today's world. Is a degree important? Absolutely. Are most degrees a waste of time and money? Yes.

It hurts me to write that, but it's true.

I have a masters degree in experimental poetry. I have that degree because that was my passion - I knew from the moment I could read that teaching, writing, and analyzing poetry/writing/literature was my thing (bikes came later). My degree indulged my passion and made it a viable career option.

So, in short, if there is something out there that you are passionate about and a degree will indulge that passion, get it! Otherwise, find another way to pursue what makes you happy.

I don't want to downplay education because I see many 45-50 year olds in my remedial classrooms and for them, a degree is their dream and their opportunity to pursue a better life. 32 is young - you have time.

Off topic, but education is moving in an interesting direction. With knowledge becoming easier and easier to get just about everywhere...I'm learning graphic design right now for fun for free...it's almost better to pursue a skill that you adore than a degree that you don't really care that much about. The skill won't cost you money to earn, but it may allow you to earn money in the future.

And health insurance...get it. I have a decent plan + accident insurance. That way, if I do have a major injurty due to an accident, the accident insurance will pay out and essentially cover my deductible. If there is one thing I will always have, it is that. My first knee surgery with PT probably costed well over $85K...and there was still another surgery to come.


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## BDKeg (May 19, 2011)

PHeller said:


> This is always a complicated topic.
> 
> I've met people who say "life is too short to work in a cubical, quit your job" but they don't tell you they are supported by a spouse who is a doctor, nurse or chemical engineer making six figures.


^^^ yea pretty much this or has a trust fund to fall back onto.

I think I just got plain lucky being able to work telecommute and live wherever. I definitely didn't plan anything, that's for sure. It's easier said than done.


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## snowgypsy (Jun 5, 2011)

PHeller - you are spot on. 

I'm too old for bumming it the way I did in my early 20's. That lasted a couple years and I aged about a decade by the end of it. Started building my life up at 23 and never looked back. 

It's about finding a balance. Telecommute and contract work are awesome in that regard for me. I have a balance between job stability, income, and play time. It also helps that I really enjoy what I do. 

So the question is, are we quitting our jobs to run off into the desert and ride? That's awesome.

Or, are we quitting jobs that don't fulfill us to pursue passions and work that do? That's awesome-er.


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## LeeL (Jan 12, 2004)

uglyguy2 said:


> Something else came to mind I don't think anyone has addressed. For those of you who have taken time off to ride, what did you do for health insurance? Mountain biking is a pretty dangerous activity, especially when you have absolutely no skill whatsoever such as myself. Everyone is saying how cheap I can live without a job... until I break something and have to pay medical expenses out of pocket.


At the high risk of offending Americans, this question is purely an American problem.



michaeldorian said:


> Life is about choices. Rarely can you have your cake and eat it too. Took me a long time to figure that out. I live in the pacific northwest where the riding is amazing, but had one of those jobs that seem to suck the life out of you. To make it worse, here you have to really make it count. When it's not raining you need to go. But work always got in the way. I rode maybe once a week if that. Work or family always got in the way. So something had to give.
> 
> Last year, I left my job at Microsoft to ride more. I had great career trajectory and was making great money. I was just on the cusp of making senior management. But at the end of the day, after 5 years I came to the realization that I wasn't happy and none of that stuff mattered. I was just getting older and wasting away in an office. I want to be one of those 60 year old guys that rip and the only way to do that was to gain the skills while you're still relatively young.


About 8 years ago after raking it in working lots during first the dotcom and then the telco and then the financing mortgage booms I cut back to 25% time and been pretty much full time skiing/biking. For sure winning the $ lottery career-wise helped. But staying pretty cheap (or frugal if you want to put it better) helped more. There's a guy at mrmoneymustache.com who preaches the mantra. To be clear lots of others have done it before him but he's educational and his advice is US centric


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## jlockie (May 26, 2008)

uglyguy2 said:


> Something else came to mind I don't think anyone has addressed. For those of you who have taken time off to ride, what did you do for health insurance? Mountain biking is a pretty dangerous activity, especially when you have absolutely no skill whatsoever such as myself. Everyone is saying how cheap I can live without a job... until I break something and have to pay medical expenses out of pocket.


Health insurance is the law of the land now. Whether you have a job or not, you're required by law to have health insurance. Good thing is, being unemployed it's mostly subsidized???


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I quit one job in my life, got fired from a couple of others.

The job I quit after only four days, was being a roadie for a musical group, the Jerry Hahn Brotherhood. I liked the guys in the band, but the manager was wired to the eyeballs on coke, and it only took that long for me to realize I didn't want to take orders from him.


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

Uglyguy2 (who is uglyguy1?)
One thing to remember when you think about your skill set is something I'm sure you take for granted. Reading between the lines of your posts, you know how to have a job, get to work on time, be a good employee and work hard, even though your current work is not the most satisfying one in terms of location. Employers struggle with employees who don't understand these basics, and usually value the ones who do.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Repack Rider said:


> I quit one job in my life, got fired from a couple of others.
> 
> The job I quit after only four days, was being a roadie for a musical group, the Jerry Hahn Brotherhood. I liked the guys in the band, but the manager was wired to the eyeballs on coke, and it only took that long for me to realize I didn't want to take orders from him.


One of the reasons I quit stage craft was that I didn't want to tour. Talk about aging in dog years!


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## twowheelfunman (Aug 29, 2008)

I worked inside/outside sales for 14 years out of high school and the demands of starting from scratch each month combined with less and less riding opportunities finally got to me. 

10 years ago I quit to become a mountain bike guide. Combining your passion and work was awesome for 10 years but I burned out on not being able to do the rides I wanted to do at the level I wanted to ride at. I recently switched things up again and now drive criss country making deliveries with my bike stashed in the truck.

My goal is to ride a trail in all 50 states. 12 down! 16 months left on mortgage, just turned 41 and even more flexibility is on the near horizon!!


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

twowheelfunman said:


> I recently switched things up again and now drive criss country making deliveries with my bike stashed in the truck.
> 
> My goal is to ride a trail in all 50 states. 12 down! 16 months left on mortgage, just turned 41 and even more flexibility is on the near horizon!!


I've been wanting to check out o/o expediting. I think my future wife would probably partner with me in the truck. We both love to travel.


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

twowheelfunman said:


> I recently switched things up again and now drive criss country making deliveries with my bike stashed in the truck.


How would one go about getting into that line of work?


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## twowheelfunman (Aug 29, 2008)

You could go to a truck driving school and get the class a cdl. Oppotunities are many. There are non cdl transport jobs too. There are a bunch of large RV auction houses across the country and they need 5th wheel and travel trailers moved around. 

Indiana has several manufacturers pumping trailers out and they need delivery drivers if you have a 1 ton pickup outfitted for towing you're in business.


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## Guy Cool (Oct 3, 2008)

Luckily I got fired from a job before I could quit. I was working at a job in Indianapolis that I didn't like and was looking for a new one so I could quit. Had I found a new job I would probably still be there as a fat slob. Instead, I was fired and was soon invited to take a vacation to Colorado since I had spare time. Two hours into the first hike I had one of the best "aha" moments. Since I had nothing to keep me in Indiana I could move to Colorado and find a job. I had been vacationing to Summit County for a few years and loved it, so I moved there. I then got even more lucky as one of my first new friends there was a hard core skier and mountain biker. I was hooked instantly. I became a ski/mountain bike bum for ten years in various Colorado towns, and am now a weekend warrior mountain biker living in Las Vegas, where I moved for the year round mountain biking. I chose to "grow up" and become a school teacher, thus having the summers off and I spend them hanging out in my last stop as a ski bum, Telluride.


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## shabbadeuce (Nov 11, 2013)

Damn - mountain bikers are the coolest. I'm a recently converted roadie. Been riding road bikes since I was 13, got into mountain biking a year ago, and now I've sold all my road bikes.

Got a whole lot of catching up to do - but I'm bitten by the bug and inspired by those of you posting here. I feel like I've missed out on so many great years of riding. Nothing beats riding in the wilderness. The idea of a road ride with cars and traffic lights here in the city has zero appeal to me anymore. My enthusiasm for roadie culture started to wane after a trip to Spain in '09 for a month of riding in Girona that showed me what true road riding was like...no lights, 7 cars on a 4 hour ride, real mountains, beautiful landscape. There's nothing like that here in Toronto.

Anyways, like I said, reading the above posts certainly encourage me to seriously consider making a move to the west coast and starting anew. Thanks y'all!


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Dayum. I applaud the balls a lot of you guys and gals have to just pickup and do it. Way to go. 

• As a part-time musician....I just need one hit song... one hit song 
• But as an IT sys admin for reasons of mediocre, yet stable pay and health benefits solely, with not an ounce of happiness on the job, yet only contentment due to relatively comfortable 9-5 hours and short commute...

the motivation to make such drastic changes is not without much serious consideration....

I've been reading this thread, getting inspired, and just sort of daydreaming about prospects. But that's it for me at this point, it is one serious daydream/pipedream. Has anyone done this with their family? Not just a spouse, but a child as well? There are far more serious implications and considerations when other people/family members are involved. Honestly, neither spouse nor I are in love with our jobs, yet we are content, in that we live relatively comfortably with earnings and our geographic location is not without it's life conveniences. We are close enough to family for support (both receiving and giving) and truth be told I do have some pretty good riding locally, with excellent riding a few hours away.

In entertaining any thoughts of such a drastic change as other's have mentioned, I can't help but feel selfish. Just curious if anyone has made any serious life changes involving their entire family and how they've made it work to everyone's advantage.


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## mb_ (Jun 5, 2006)

Thought I'd share some things I've been reading lately that have renewed my hope to be able to retire at a "reasonable" age. A lot of this stuff applies to this discussion.

I ran across an article on a 30-something who was retiring. What caught my attention was he was just a working man, not a millionaire entrpreneur. That article led me to this Early Retirement Extreme site:
Early Retirement Extreme: ? a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism

I just bought the ERE book and it is full of good stuff. Still digesting it.

I've also enjoyed reading this guy. Lots of good tips and motivation here to get a plan and start working toward a goal of financial independence:
Mr. Money Mustache ? Early Retirement through Badassity


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

At my current job I work 13 hr shifts (7AM-8PM) Thurs-Fri-Sat then I'm off Sunday then work 13 hrs Mon-Tues-Weds then I'm off for a week. Not much riding gets done on the working week but every other week off aint bad.


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## BDKeg (May 19, 2011)

mb_ said:


> Thought I'd share some things I've been reading lately that have renewed my hope to be able to retire at a "reasonable" age. A lot of this stuff applies to this discussion.
> 
> I ran across an article on a 30-something who was retiring. What caught my attention was he was just a working man, not a millionaire entrpreneur. That article led me to this Early Retirement Extreme site:
> Early Retirement Extreme: ? a combination of simple living, anticonsumerism, DIY ethics, self-reliance, and applied capitalism
> ...


I think the whole problem is that everybody is focused and equating retirement/wealth with freedom or some holy grail that will instantly make their lives so much better. Why not make meaningful changes in your life NOW that will give more freedom and a lifestyle more akin to what you want, instead of making yourself live like a poor college student in the hopes of someday because able to "do what you want" when you're old and decrepit...Doesn't sound like a life to me.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

uglyguy2 said:


> How would one go about getting into that line of work?


Many trucking companies will pay you while they train you then you owe them X number of miles driving. My son just did this with Roehl. Got paid while he trained now he's driving for them. He likes it so far but he's only been on his own for a couple weeks.


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## -Chainslap- (Apr 9, 2009)

I took a leave of absence from my job at a University this past winter and lived in a van in New Zealand and rode damn near everyday. It was kind of a no brainer since I was able to leave work and come back, I had no real commitments (no mortgage, kids, gf, etc) plus I had some good friends that were living there as well. I have a thread in the Passion section that I still need to finish as well...ha. It's pretty easy for me to live on the road in a van, with the vast majority of my expenses on food and fuel. I rarely bought alcohol and almost never ate out which saves a ton right there. All I had was a little 2 burner stove and a cooler as well. Showers were typically relegated to rivers and lakes, with a real shower about once a week at a campground or someones house.

I'm now back in AZ working for a few more months before moving to Sun Valley, ID in July to start another chapter of my life doing some marketing/writing for a new moto/bike company. Could be a flop or could work out awesome, so I might still have to work as a server or something similar, but I'm taking risks and doing what I love and "chasing my dreams". I will also be racing mountain bikes during the summer (BME) and switching to racing dirt bikes in the winter back here in AZ. Lots of time on the road for me still!

Do it while you can!

This was my home down there...



And remember...


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Life is too short to live somewhere that you hate.

Do it!


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

UglyGuy2 alluded in another thread that he was moving to the "west coast," but no other details.


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## J3SSEB (Jun 1, 2009)

Updates?


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

I'll probably jinx myself saying this, but from what I've been told I should be working in Reno by the end of July. Seems too good to be true. Keeping my fingers crossed.


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## CDK (Oct 1, 2013)

Iv been driving a cab in the Phoenix area for a couple of years. I only work 2 1/2 days a week and make more than enough loot to live very comfortably and buy fun stuff like bikes etc... I'm an independent contractor so I work whenever I want/ wherever I want, meet a ton of people/make a ton of friends and don't have a boss.
I am also a single dad so the days I am not working my 4 year old daughter is with me which means that I do not ride nearly as much as I would like to but because I am not working for 5 days a week she doesn't need to go to daycare and we just do fun stuff all week. I wish that I discovered how much I could make doing this 10 years ago..


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## H0WL (Jan 17, 2007)

uglyguy2 said:


> I'll probably jinx myself saying this, but from what I've been told I should be working in Reno by the end of July. Seems too good to be true. Keeping my fingers crossed.


We're keeping fingers crossed, too! About the time Houston turns into a steam bath, you can take your vacation time, check out Park City and then head to your new home in Reno.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I was a roadie for the same rock band for 42 years, 1968 to 2010. Finally decided I didn't want to make a career out of that stuff, and walked. But I still get into the shows.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

Repack Rider said:


> I was a roadie for the same rock band for 42 years, 1968 to 2010. Finally decided I didn't want to make a career out of that stuff, and walked. But I still get into the shows.


After 42 years I'd say you had already made it a career...


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

Uglyguy, just curious how old are you?
I left N.J. at 24 for Cali and I'm so glad I did. I will always love N.J. but if I had stayed I would have always wondered "what if". I always loved outdoor activities and the west is a big playground. The weather and quality of life is just better in my opinion. Family and friends are only a short plane ride away. Good luck to you, Never been to Reno or Lake Tahoe but I'm sure the biking is awesome up there.


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## uglyguy2 (Jun 20, 2012)

32.

I've never been either, but from all the vids I've seen it looks amazing. And I don't think pro riders like Zink and Paul B would call a place home that sucks for mountain biking. Can't wait to get out there.


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## crewjones (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeah, i'll get up there one of these days. I live in Los Angeles. Going to take a trip to southern Utah this year first. It's been on my list for a while. You're gonna love it out west


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

regarding the original topic- I think one of the main reasons I am trying so hard to find a new job is because I want to ride my bike more. like once a month at least. I have not touched my bike in about a month and for several months before that, I only got one day per weekend with my current job.

I left working part-time as a bicycle mechanic in the spring. I told management several times that I needed more hours to pay the bills, and there was plenty of work to be done, and I was good at it. but no one cared so i signed up to become an electrician apprentice. as a 32 year-old with ten years of marriage and a bachelor's degree in journalism, becoming a construction worker seemed like a last resort. I have been applying to dozens of jobs every week for several years with no success, so I was surprised at how quickly the electrician program took me on.

I now have a consistent 40+ hour work week and I am grateful for the opportunity to work and earn money. but the job, the culture, the school I have to attend for the next five years, and the feeling that I could possibly be making much more money without sweating/ freezing my ass off and being yelled at by grumpy old men... it's slowly killing me. I have no sense of humor, no energy, and no desire to ride. riding bikes has been my passion for most of my life and I am considering selling my bikes and growing a beer belly instead.

not sure what I am doing wrong to make HUNDREDS of employers avoid giving me the time of day all these years. I never realized how important riding bikes was until something so soul-sucking as construction work started controlling my life. I would leave it in a heartbeat if I could but I would have no where to go.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Journalism? Why not?

Maybe you're just not into riding anymore. Not a thing wrong with that. Find a new passion? Mountain biking's fun, but it's not the only game out there.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

She&I said:


> Journalism? Why not?


I got laid off from a magazine editing job in 2009. I have applied for journalism jobs at a rate of 12 or more a week for the past few years. nothing. it's a dead end. I am still trying but I am not holding my breath. I am competing for those jobs against veterans of the industry with decades of experience and college kids who have more technical know-how and are willing to work literally for free as interns.

riding has been the only thing that bring me joy consistently through my life until a few months ago. It's no coincidence that my riding and most of my will to life went to hell about that time. being a couch potato is not a great alternative. If being an electrician means not riding anymore, I would rather be electrocuted. maybe I will get my wish.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Chin up, brother--at least you have a job, a bike, and can go riding.

I don't know journalism, but have done some wordsmithing. I think there could be something there. Does your material and presentation sing? Are you including a well-crafted cover letter for each recipient? Have a peer look your stuff over. Conscript a graphic designer if you can (barter?). You know bikes, how about writing about them? Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Sorry for the mellow dramatic presentation. I need more outlets to exorcise my demons. I really am feeling pretty dark lately and wondering if the job itself causes my languor through exhaustion or if there is something more to it than that. I spend a lot of my down time trying to figure out the root cause the malaise. I can make some time to ride but I feel guilty when I indulge in that as if I should just be working more to make up for all the money I am not making by working for such crappy wages when most college educated people i happen to know are doing something they enjoy and getting paid gobs more at it. Maybe if I forced myself to ride, I would forget how **** everything else is. It beats drinking.

quitting a good-paying but boring job to ride more is one thing, but quitting a job that is life-sucking _and_ pays crap to boot because you have no other options is a bad idea all around. I live in blue-collar comfort on my earnings, but things would go downhill rapidly if I just up and quit. I just have literally no where else to go work, and not because of a lack of trying.

As for my writing career, that horse is long dead. My puny resume is as good as it is going to get. If I made it look better, I would have to employ some heavy deception. If I was an employer looking for a writer, I would pass over my resume too. I don't believe that's pessimistic- it's realistic.


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## jumb5150 (Aug 13, 2014)

michaeldorian said:


> Life is about choices. Rarely can you have your cake and eat it too. Took me a long time to figure that out. I live in the pacific northwest where the riding is amazing, but had one of those jobs that seem to suck the life out of you. To make it worse, here you have to really make it count. When it's not raining you need to go. But work always got in the way. I rode maybe once a week if that. Work or family always got in the way. So something had to give.
> 
> Last year, I left my job at Microsoft to ride more. I had great career trajectory and was making great money. I was just on the cusp of making senior management. But at the end of the day, after 5 years I came to the realization that I wasn't happy and none of that stuff mattered. I was just getting older and wasting away in an office. I want to be one of those 60 year old guys that rip and the only way to do that was to gain the skills while you're still relatively young.
> 
> ...


Working a job as a manufacturing specialist and hating my day. That's why Im here to pass the time. Then I saw this quote. Kinda brought a tear to my eyes.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Got ya, bro. I agree that digging into this to root out a cause is prudent. Conditions seem decent (if transitory), so there must be something whacking out your well being. View a temporary situation for what it is. You are not a lifer sparky; it's just a step stone. 

Again, you have a wife, your health, a job, a bike, and can ride. Almost all the complaining on a MTB forum has to do with not having one or more of those. Best wishes for sorting out things and feeling better.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

there are 24 hours in a day. 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, and 8 hours to do with as you choose. if you cannot find the time to get out on the bike for at least an hour or 2 EVERY day, then yer doin somethin wrong.

i sleep 5-6 hours a night which allows me more time to play

rog


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## tobimaru (Aug 29, 2014)

I've been unemployed/doing "odd jobs" since last year, completely changed the way I lived my life and all things considered I think it's what has led me to biking. Good way to exercise and spend a few hours each day building my skills. I won't claim to have all the answers, I'm living with a friend and by most people's standards am in "poverty". But you know what? I've never been happier, and like others I have done the office job day in and day out (IT work to be specific) and I have also been a car mechanic. I may not be rich but I am definitely happy.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

eight hours a day of work, I wish!

my regular hours are 7am to 3:30 pm. commute time depends on the work site, and I have no control over that. right now, my commute takes 30 minutes in the morning and 45 on the way home. (one job to which I was assigned this summer was 70 miles away.) so I get up at 5, leave at 6, stop to take a dump somewhere on the way because coffee is getting through my system and I want to avoid the nasty port-a-potties, park around 6:45 and start work at 7. the commute home gets me in at about 4:15, so I like avoiding the rush hour traffic. I unpack, take a shower, and relax and drink a ton of water to recover from all the sweating.

I have found that I need about 7 hours of sleep a night. I drink a cup of coffee in the morning and usually have a soda in the afternoon to keep going. even then, I sometimes find myself nodding off in the car on the drive home. or I have to take a nap after I get home to clear my head. I eat nutritious food, including a big breakfast with fruit and a multivitamin.

so 5 am to 5 pm is devoted to work five days a week. On Mondays and every other Wednesday, I have mandatory electrician class from 5 to 9 pm, so that takes over half my day one-and-a-half day each week. that leaves three and a half days with an additional 5 hours to spend with my wife, grocery shopping, general errands, cleaning up the house, searching for a new job, etc. I try to get seven hours of sleep. not a lot of time left.

that's on a "regular" work schedule. this summer, I worked one job that was Monday through Saturday 7 am to 5 pm. that's 60 hours a week plus an hour each day of commuting. the overtime was nice but time-and-a-half of jackshit is still jackshit. that left only Sunday to do anything other than work and sleep. the job after that had me working Sunday to Saturday 7 am to 7 pm. yeah, 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

fit riding into that.

riding to work is not an option. the closest job I have had yet was 15 miles away. I have to wear jeans, heavy steel-toed work boots, and a hard hat at work. I have to take those clothes home at the end of every day because they get filthy. I have to carry my lunch, a half-gallon water jug (full of water because there is no drinkable water on most job sites), and a 40+ pound bag of tools. I get to work well before sunrise. after all that toil, the last thing I want to do is pedal all that home on highways with cars going 80 miles per hour.

weekends? I don't have anything left on weekends. I sleep in and stress out about how much the next week is going to suck. maybe that's the core issue. I can't enjoy anything else in life until I get this one thing "right."

I know a lot of people have crazier schedules than I do, but I rode a lot more and enjoyed life a lot more before I started this job. going back to part-time work is not an option financially but there must be some middle ground that does not make me miserable but also pays the bills.

I AM GRATEFUL that I have a job that pays the bills. after a while, though, having *just enough* money and no time or energy to enjoy it really sucks the life out of you though.

I have met a lot of people, young and old, who LOVE the trade. either they have no other interests or hobbies outside of work (which seems to be the case based on my conversations with them), or they have some sort of super-human levels of energy that I cannot achieve.


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## 8iking VIIking (Dec 20, 2012)

newmarketrog said:


> there are 24 hours in a day. 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, and 8 hours to do with as you choose. if you cannot find the time to get out on the bike for at least an hour or 2 EVERY day, then yer doin somethin wrong.
> 
> i sleep 5-6 hours a night which allows me more time to play
> 
> rog


Ha! 8 hours to do what you want....I wish. Must be nice to not have any other responsibilities in life


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

newmarketrog said:


> there are 24 hours in a day. 8 hours for work, 8 hours for sleep, and 8 hours to do with as you choose. if you cannot find the time to get out on the bike for at least an hour or 2 EVERY day, then yer doin somethin wrong.
> 
> i sleep 5-6 hours a night which allows me more time to play
> 
> rog


8 hours of free time apparently includes time to troll :thumbsup:

The rest of us have other responsibilities to balance as well. Must be nice to live in a van down by the river.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

bad andy said:


> 8 hours of free time apparently includes time to troll :thumbsup:
> 
> The rest of us have other responsibilities to balance as well. Must be nice to live in a van down by the river.


life is what you make of it. you wanna tack on time killing "responsibilities" and complain about your life? go for it, but you won't get any sympathy from me.

we all have responsibilities, but some of us choose to live as simply as possible so that a daNM near 3rd of our day is free play time.

since i graduated hs 23 years ago, i've had my life set where i never work more than 40 hours in a week, and have gotten out and played a good 2-4 hours a day everyday except when sick or traveling, but even then i could run hotel stairs and whatnot.

i work 11am-7pm 5 days a week with 7 weeks paid vaca per year that i can take as individual hours if i want to duck out early to surf or ride, any day i choose.

this am was just another typical morning. wake up at 530am, check the buoy, drive the mile down the dirt road and surf for 2 hours, come home, **** around on the internet and drink coffee, walk the dog for an hour, stop by the the log yard and saw up some oak for winter 2016, load up the oak with logs with my boards and suit so that i can duck out early and surf another coupla hours before dark. if the surf goes flat i mtb every morning for a coupla hours.

making excuses for not playing cuz of lifes responsibilities is complete bull$hit. you set your life up that way. either change it or deal with it.

rog


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## Goldberm (Oct 4, 2013)

mack_turtle said:


> eight hours a day of work, I wish!
> 
> I know a lot of people have crazier schedules than I do, but I rode a lot more and enjoyed life a lot more before I started this job. going back to part-time work is not an option financially but there must be some middle ground that does not make me miserable but also pays the bills.
> 
> I AM GRATEFUL that I have a job that pays the bills. after a while, though, having *just enough* money and no time or energy to enjoy it really sucks the life out of you though.


It sounds like the biggest problem in your life is your bills. You seem to feel the stress from being a slave to the dollar.

Stop spending money and pay off your debts as quick as possible. It's likely that you can cut some of your monthly expenses that aren't necessary (cable, smart phone, Netflix.....). Don't buy something with a credit card. If you can't afford it with cash, you can't afford it.

Once you stop living to serve the dollar, you can begin to live to serve your soul. That's the freedom you seek.

btw, print is dead. If writing is your talent, search for an outlet for online consumption.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

Solid^^^^^^. I've never bought anything that i couldn't pay for in cash, except for primary/rental properties. But those all pay for themselves and then some. 

Car payments, credit card payments, school loans ( i never bothered with college so never had that expense), are above means living, especially if you can barely pay them and are slave to long work hours to do so.

rog


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## honkonbobo (Nov 18, 2006)

Goldberm said:


> It sounds like the biggest problem in your life is your bills. You seem to feel the stress from being a slave to the dollar.
> 
> Stop spending money and pay off your debts as quick as possible. It's likely that you can cut some of your monthly expenses that aren't necessary (cable, smart phone, Netflix.....). Don't buy something with a credit card. If you can't afford it with cash, you can't afford it.
> 
> Once you stop living to serve the dollar, you can begin to live to serve your soul. That's the freedom you seek.


this exactly. debt and financial obligation make you a slave. understand the difference between wants and needs (sounds simple but many don't), live below your means and save your money.

some money in the bank won't change your life in and of itself but it will take the pressure off to make big life changes seem more possible if you are considering them.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

I started a new job this week. My hours are 6PM-2AM, which means I have the whole day to do whatever I want before I leave for work :thumbsup: So far this week I did trail work Mon and Tues then a 10 mile ride today. Oh, and no alarm clock


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## lex_luthor (Aug 12, 2014)

mack_turtle said:


> eight hours a day of work, I wish!
> 
> my regular hours are 7am to 3:30 pm. commute time depends on the work site, and I have no control over that. right now, my commute takes 30 minutes in the morning and 45 on the way home. (one job to which I was assigned this summer was 70 miles away.) so I get up at 5, leave at 6, stop to take a dump somewhere on the way because coffee is getting through my system and I want to avoid the nasty port-a-potties, park around 6:45 and start work at 7. the commute home gets me in at about 4:15, so I like avoiding the rush hour traffic. I unpack, take a shower, and relax and drink a ton of water to recover from all the sweating.
> 
> ...


Mack,
I definitely can relate to you. I have pursued a career teaching kung fu because it is what I love and it makes me happy. During the meantime, I had a "day job" to help make ends meet. Then I got an opportunity to teach full time for about the same salary that I was making at the other job. GREAT! Now I get to do what I love for a living! Nothing better than that right?

Fast forward a couple years, I got married and had a daughter. $2k per month simply will NOT cut it anymore. One of the hardest decisions of my life was leaving what I loved - what I worked SO hard for - to make ends meet. But that's my responsibility as my wife's husband and my daughter's father. To provide. I got really lucky and found a GREAT company and it took a while for me to come to realize that what I loved SO much was limiting my actual happiness.

It was like ripping off a bandaid. It really hurt, but in the end, I have healed and am REALLY enjoying what I'm doing, as well as the people in the company I work for. I was really really behind financially. I still am, but I've made a lot of progress with my debts. I don't make a lot, but I make more than I did before and that's a step in the right direction.

I don't recommend leaving your job with nothing else lined up. That's just asinine, as you know. But I think it's imperative for you to GET OUT of that field if you feel like it's sucking your life away. There ARE jobs out there. Consider your references and change them. Contact some people close to you professionally and personally and ask them if they could be a positive reference for you.

I have a degree in International Business - and I basically spent my college years learning about what I DON'T want to do, and came out with a $70k bill for it. I went a completely different direction and found some great experiences, some good times, and a LOT of struggle. Don't stop looking and don't lose hope.

In the meantime - RIDE YOUR BIKE. Even if it's your ONLY day off out of the week. The brain absolutely NEEDS some shut off time. That's when you turn on the physical side, and turn off the mind. You are most definitely exhausted, but even half an hour riding around the neighborhood will do wonders for your mind. That little bit of shut-off time that the mind gets, allows us to see a bit more clearly and come back to dealing with our issues in a different - hopefully more constructive - manner.


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## irishpitbull (Sep 29, 2011)

8iking VIIking said:


> Ha! 8 hours to do what you want....I wish. Must be nice to not have any other responsibilities in life


It's very nice.

I have quite my job twice and the assh0les keep giving me more money to stay.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

Goldberm said:


> It sounds like the biggest problem in your life is your bills. You seem to feel the stress from being a slave to the dollar.


we have no debts except a mortgage (bought a great house at a steal of a price), and a car payment. a few years ago, we had thousands of dollars in student loans, a car payment, credit card debt, medical bills, etc. we lived the beans-and-rice lifestyle for a few years, even when I was making salary with generous benefits at a magazine and paid it all off. my wife and I share one car to save money. (buying a new car was only marginally more expensive than buying a decent used one and bad experiences with used cars that needed expensive repairs all the time have turned me off to it.) we bought the cheapest house we could get rather than wasting money on rent. we keep all our bills low and only use the credit card for things that we can pay for. we pay off our credit card balance every month, so it's like using a check card but with rewards.

we really live a frugal lifestyle, so debt and bills is not the issue. we live very much within our means. we could afford to go out more but we are saving for the long-term for emergencies, to pay off the car and house faster, to be more generous, to travel once in a while to see family, etc. money is not the problem- living a lifestyle that is eaten up by a job that eats your soul and still pays crap is the issue.

the issue is that I have to work this job, which is very low-paying, because I have no alternative. If I quit this job, I will have no job at all. If I could find a job that pays the same, I would be perfectly happy. I am not a slave to the dollar, I am a slave to a lack of more favorable career options.

yeah, print is dead. I learned that years ago which is why I have applied to every job on the face of the planet that has anything to do with my skill set.


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## steadyflow (Apr 25, 2006)

mack_turtle said:


> we have no debts except a mortgage (bought a great house at a steal of a price), and a car payment. a few years ago, we had thousands of dollars in student loans, a car payment, credit card debt, medical bills, etc. we lived the beans-and-rice lifestyle for a few years, even when I was making salary with generous benefits at a magazine and paid it all off. my wife and I share one car to save money. (buying a new car was only marginally more expensive than buying a decent used one and bad experiences with used cars that needed expensive repairs all the time have turned me off to it.) we bought the cheapest house we could get rather than wasting money on rent. we keep all our bills low and only use the credit card for things that we can pay for. we pay off our credit card balance every month, so it's like using a check card but with rewards.
> 
> we really live a frugal lifestyle, so debt and bills is not the issue. we live very much within our means. we could afford to go out more but we are saving for the long-term for emergencies, to pay off the car and house faster, to be more generous, to travel once in a while to see family, etc. money is not the problem- living a lifestyle that is eaten up by a job that eats your soul and still pays crap is the issue.
> 
> ...


Why construction as a career change? Learn a programming language either on the data side or application development and you won't be looking for work. The days of going to college majoring in anything you want and getting a job/career are gone. In demand skills are in the STEM fields or health care.

I cooked and skied all through my 20's; I realized by age 25 that wages were going down for skilled cooks/chefs, not to mention the work is hard and not something I would want to be doing when 50. Went back to school and now work in data/analytics. I get calls from recruiters multiple times a week....even during the economic downturn I have seen consistent increases in pay. Do I love my job no.....if I could I wouldn't work, but it supports my lifestyle.


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## mack_turtle (Jan 6, 2009)

steadyflow said:


> Why construction as a career change?


after five years of applying for every job under the sun, the electrician's union was the ONLY place to ever even call me back, aside from bike shop jobs. literally dozens of applications a week. constantly tweaking my resume and having it professionally critiqued, calling back when it's appropriate, etc. like cooking, wrenching on bikes pays extremely low for most people, so I went with something that would at least pay consistently and the pay is guaranteed to increase. the demand for labor is strong where I live too. I scored very high on my aptitude test and interview, so I was one of the first to go to work out of my group. wrenching on bikes full time allowed me to barely scrape by on a frugal lifestyle. construction sucks but I am growing my savings account for once.

programming is definitely one sure track to a job! this is what I have been telling people, especially those younger than myself. every time I go job searching, I see tons of jobs that require programming skills. some of them seem to be jobs where they take an obscure skill set and then tack programming onto it.

realistically, what would it take at this point to get into a position like that? like I said, we made a big point of becoming debt-free a few years ago, so if learning what is apparently the only job skill worth a damn to anyone on the planet means another four-year college degree and hundreds of dollars in debt, I don't know if that's an option for me.


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## steadyflow (Apr 25, 2006)

mack_turtle said:


> after five years of applying for every job under the sun, the electrician's union was the ONLY place to ever even call me back, aside from bike shop jobs. literally dozens of applications a week. constantly tweaking my resume and having it professionally critiqued, calling back when it's appropriate, etc. like cooking, wrenching on bikes pays extremely low for most people, so I went with something that would at least pay consistently and the pay is guaranteed to increase. the demand for labor is strong where I live too. I scored very high on my aptitude test and interview, so I was one of the first to go to work out of my group. wrenching on bikes full time allowed me to barely scrape by on a frugal lifestyle. construction sucks but I am growing my savings account for once.
> 
> programming is definitely one sure track to a job! this is what I have been telling people, especially those younger than myself. every time I go job searching, I see tons of jobs that require programming skills. some of them seem to be jobs where they take an obscure skill set and then tack programming onto it.
> 
> realistically, what would it take at this point to get into a position like that? like I said, we made a big point of becoming debt-free a few years ago, so if learning what is apparently the only job skill worth a damn to anyone on the planet means another four-year college degree and hundreds of dollars in debt, I don't know if that's an option for me.


I get it...making a career change isn't easy and even with some education you still need someone to give you a chance. If you are interested in programming (will focus on data/analytics as that is what I know) there are ways to get there.

Community college courses are more affordable as one path. There are many new masters in analytics programs out there now with many being online. Also many free resources out there here are few:

Big Data University

https://www.coursera.org/

Anybody can learn | Code.org

https://www.datacamp.com/courses

Data camp focuses on R which is an open source statistical program that you can download and start learning/using. R is hot right now with median salaries nationally for skilled R programmers around $115k.


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

Well, I was forced to resign from a job so it was like I quit but it was a nicer way to get fired. They gave me a generous severance package. But it was the worst job I ever had at the worst employer I ever worked for. But I was unemployed for 16 months until I finally found a new job. That happened in Jan 2003. I was glad to find out about 5 years ago or so that they shut down that place and dissolved that company. I used to wonder how they managed to stay in business in the first place.

It was a Japanese tier one automotive supplier. I was put into a job I had no background in. No one in that department ever interviewed me nor did I see that department during my interview. This place was known as a "sweat shop" and had a high rollover rate. I was told that by one of my associates on the first day of my job. When I had my first review after 6 months they showed me the description of my job. I asked them if they read my resume because none of that was on there.


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## Alias530 (Apr 1, 2013)

Yep... switched to a less demanding job where I work from home. Extra free time due to no commute or getting ready. I road bike on my lunch breaks and/or mountain ride after work.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

mack_turtle said:


> I left working part-time as a bicycle mechanic in the spring. I told management several times that I needed more hours to pay the bills, and there was plenty of work to be done, and I was good at it. but no one cared so i signed up to become an electrician apprentice. as a 32 year-old with ten years of marriage and a bachelor's degree in journalism, becoming a construction worker seemed like a last resort. I have been applying to dozens of jobs every week for several years with no success, so I was surprised at how quickly the electrician program took me on.


Americans have a problem getting our hands dirty. It's dumb, because the trades are one of the places we can actually make real, tangible things. But it means that for a lot of people, they're a career of last resort.

I actually had a lot of fun doing stagecraft, but I choose 2008 to move to a new city and what would have been a somewhat tenuous position anyway became untenable - I slipped out the bottom of the industry, along with a lot of other people. Guys with a lot of seniority were sitting on their hands, so I don't feel too bad about it. Though it certainly sucked at the time.

I ended up going back to school for Mechanical Engineering. My Bachelor's is in Theatre. Maybe less marketable than journalism.  Though I had a lot of fun with that too.

So initially, I thought another Bachelor's was probably the way to go. I wasn't crazy about the idea. I already had one. And I talked to a few advisors about it and they weren't crazy about the idea either. My nearest university doesn't have enough seats for traditional undergrads, the Feds are only interested in helping people without Bachelor's degrees get their BS, etc.

A Master's, on the other hand... The MSE and MSME degrees require certain course work, of course, and someone with a BSME has that coursework by default. But the department doesn't require an applicant to have a BSME per se. Just the coursework from a somewhat shorter list. So that's what I did. My prerequisites and the coursework for my degree bleed into each other, but from start to finish, I spent just over three years taking classes. Not another four. And not on a full-time schedule initially. It also wasn't as tied to an academic calendar. Community College and high enrollment at my university meant I could start taking classes in January and do some coursework in the summer. Being a little older was a little weird, not as much as I feared, and made applying myself seriously a lot easier. I wouldn't have dreamed of the GPAs I earned this time 'round back when I was in high school or college.

So if you hate working electrical, don't dismiss more education. I am paying back some loans now, but I'm getting through them ahead of schedule and have a better life than ever.

If your wife is into it, you probably don't even need to rack up as much debt as I did.

On the other hand, suppose you stick with electrical. If it's like other fields that aren't necessarily directly related, that BA is worth more than you think. OK, so you've got five years on kind of a crappy schedule, and that's not an insignificant period of time. At the end of that, you're a Journeyman in your Union (I hope) and you still have that BA. They're really pretty interchangeable - it's a piece of paper that says you can manage your own time and read and write with a certain degree of rigor. So if your Union runs everything on strict seniority, this is the time for a lateral move. Switch to the client side, get into inspection, get into estimating, etc.


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## newmarketrog (Sep 26, 2008)

AndrwSwitch said:


> it's a piece of paper that says you can manage your own time and read and write with a certain degree of rigor.


funneh how that piece of paper is in the hands of many folks with little common sense and never realized that so long as you earn more than you spend, you'll be alright.

3rd grade math.

rog


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

No. My final job gave me ample vacation, benefits, pay and a secure pension. To quit so I could ride more would have been a very poor decision. I did not need to ride more than 3 or 4 times a week anyway and now I can ride/ski/surf every day if I want. 

I certainly do not live in a mountain bike destination but the riding is pretty good with access to plenty of trails. 

Was it the best job in the world? Probably not. My last boss was less then optimal and I'm sure she thought the same of me. The commute was long but I wasn't "driving" the train. I got to read at least one new book a week. My job placed me at ground zero for some historic events and I always made sure I had fun. 

I live with the attitude that I have good days and better days. Yes, there were a couple exceptions.

Does my job still exist? No, sadly, times have changed and what I received no longer exists in the same form but I have two son's who are doing well and enjoy their careers.


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## Willstylez (Jan 3, 2011)

At the tale end of age 34, I'm nearly debt free....just one small portion of college loan left. I do have a cell phone bill, but that is it. By next spring, I should be all squared away, so I'm really hoping to take a leave of absence from work so I can do some cycling / mtn biking. Right now, I'm leaning toward cycling the Transamerica Trail, East to West. 

In the long run, I'd like to move to another country, perhaps South America, by the time I'm 45. Or maybe just wander around, using websites like "Workaway", to get free housing / food (in exchange for labor)....and get to experience as many different cultures as possible. As so many others have stated, life is short and time flies, so why not set yourself up for happiness everyday. 

Not having kids (I don't want any) and having no bills, means the less you have to rely on the almighty dollar, which I'm all for!


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## PdlPwr (Nov 16, 2010)

Being self employed has it's ups and downs and there are times when I really hate it. (like working a 12 hour day on Sunday when it's nice out) You're only as good as your last couple of jobs, there's no guarantee I'll always have work and it's physically demanding.

I've been thinking about doing something else but the things a lot of you guys are saying really reinforce the reasons I became self employed in the first place. The dead end indentured servitude they pass off as jobs around here just don't cut it for me. I *would* rather live in a van down by the river. Although I might need to invest in a nice kayak.


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## Saladin (Sep 25, 2014)

I haven't quit to ride but after this last accident resulted in 2 months off, they tell me, "no more mountain biking for you." We'll see about that.


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## big_slacker (Feb 16, 2004)

Funny, I live in what I assume is the same area and I consider it funny that working for MS is endgame. I get it in the traditional sense, but still. I'm a CCIE (if you're on the networking side of IT you know what that means) and MS would pay me a fat signing bonus, salary similar to what you mention below and so on. But to go back to a desk job? Tough sell.

7 or so years ago I literally walked out of a stable corporate job, and after some jumping around figured out how to work from home. Been doing it ever since. Did it from tahoe for a while which was pretty sweet. Do it from bvue now, still pretty sweet. I generally ride when I want if I don't have some work or family duties to attend to. MS would pay a *LITTLE* more than I make now and some nice bonuses, but I'm 40 and have come to understand what I love to do in life. My family, riding, drinking beer and laughing. I do enjoy my work because I'm free to DO IT instead of sitting around acting like I'm doing something so someone has the impression I'm working. **** that noise.

For the OP and anyone else reading. Yes, quit your job and ride your bike. Or get a better job that lets you ride your bike. Assuming that's what you want to do, cause believe me.... there isn't much to life other than doing what makes you happy. The rest is illusion.



michaeldorian said:


> Life is about choices. Rarely can you have your cake and eat it too. Took me a long time to figure that out. I live in the pacific northwest where the riding is amazing, but had one of those jobs that seem to suck the life out of you. To make it worse, here you have to really make it count. When it's not raining you need to go. But work always got in the way. I rode maybe once a week if that. Work or family always got in the way. So something had to give.
> 
> Last year, I left my job at Microsoft to ride more. I had great career trajectory and was making great money. I was just on the cusp of making senior management. But at the end of the day, after 5 years I came to the realization that I wasn't happy and none of that stuff mattered. I was just getting older and wasting away in an office. I want to be one of those 60 year old guys that rip and the only way to do that was to gain the skills while you're still relatively young.
> 
> Live the dream my friend. It's possible. If you're ever in Seattle, lets ride.


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## misterbill (Aug 13, 2014)

I cannot answer you because I never kept a job. Not something that I am real proud of.

Before you go running off to truck driving school-imagine your boss telling you that you don't have to come into work on Monday morning. Instead, you can come to work(he is offering you a big favor)at three in the afternoon and work until midnight. Tuesday, you get a real break since you already went to bed at one AM on Tuesday-you don't have to come to work until two AM on Wednesday!!!! Then in the middle of the night you get to sit behind the wheel of an 80,000 pound vehicle in traffic(there is always traffic)trying to figure out how to keep awake for the next 8 to 10 hours.

I took a school bus load of track kids an hour away from the school for a meet. My gps said '6 minutes' for my arrival time for 45 minutes because we were stuck in construction(the government does this on purpuse). I said to the boys when they got off of the bus-"If you guys get a truck driving job you can sit in traffic like that everyday!" They looked at me like I had two heads.

BTW-I need to mention that I drove for Aldis a couple of years ago-I worked 77 hours and brought home a $700 paycheck.

Not to cry too loud-today(Sunday)I am going to go to Watertown CT and Old Lyme for deliveries. Probably be an 8 hour day of which I get $22.48 an hour. I may not even hate today. I go to both Watertown high school and Old lyme high school for school sports-that will make me feel better about my day.

I went to a wonderful field hockey game on Friday-middle school girls no less-probably one of the best games I've gone to this fall. Just want to mention that I kind of have it made(that means I have a good life in case they don't use that expression where you live).


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## LaloKera (Jul 31, 2015)

Would like to resurrect this thread seeing as we are a year plus deep into the whole Covid 19 dilema. 
Wonder how the previous posters are doing now? 

My company has recently been sold off and after two decades of working for same boss, New management has taken over and not sure how to feel and where i fit in. 
I still have my Job which is a positive(or not) but sit here in this office and dream everyday about being let go and taking a whole summer off to just ride. clear my head and maybe do something else when i am ready... 

Any thoughts?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

LaloKera said:


> I still have my Job which is a positive(or not) but sit here in this office and dream everyday about being let go and taking a whole summer off to just ride. clear my head and maybe do something else when i am ready...
> 
> Any thoughts?


If you're 28 and/or not committed to anyone else's welfare, good idea. If you're 48 or committed to someone else's welfare, probably not. It's kind of a sliding scale.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm retired now and working for myself, but at one time I was a wage slave. It's easy to say from a perspective of safety, but no job is worth having your soul sucked out of you. I worked a job for 17 years that turned into a nightmare for the last 5 years, and looking back I really should have left sooner. Don't just cope, don't just endure. It's not worth it. Find another job first if you have to, but one way or the other, get out. You work to live, you don't live to work.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

LaloKera said:


> but sit here in this office and dream everyday about being let go and taking a whole summer off to just ride. clear my head and maybe do something else when i am ready...
> 
> Any thoughts?


If you're even considering this the answer is yes. Life is too short, do it now.

I don't often disagree with MSU Alum but I will here. 48 or 28 makes no difference, obligations aside.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Also regarding covid and employment, there are currently more jobs and higher wages at any point in my lifetime that I can remember. We are also hiring way underqualified people into what once were very coveted and competitive jobs. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## LaloKera (Jul 31, 2015)

Well, I have been working at same location since I was 19 so you do the math on my age. 
My only child will be 21 in two years, so ive almost completed my obligation in that regard. 
For me Covid did not change anything other than having to wear a mask while im indoors. Took the week of Thanksgiving off due to covid scare but was found Negative. 

Ive always worked to Live rather than lived to work as much as i can afford too. Always took advantage of my vacations and best ones were Bike related.
Want and need to do more of this. I think i will plan my escape.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> If you're even considering this the answer is yes. Life is too short, do it now.
> 
> I don't often disagree with MSU Alum but I will here. 48 or 28 makes no difference, obligations aside.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


I'd agree with this in spite of my post. It's really the obligations I was thinking about.


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## BrianU (Feb 4, 2004)

DennisT said:


> I'm retired now and working for myself, but at one time I was a wage slave. It's easy to say from a perspective of safety, but no job is worth having your soul sucked out of you. I worked a job for 17 years that turned into a nightmare for the last 5 years, and looking back I really should have left sooner. Don't just cope, don't just endure. It's not worth it. Find another job first if you have to, but one way or the other, get out. You work to live, you don't live to work.


Most definitely! I retired from the Navy 16 years ago and stepped into a job that I thought I was going to love. Worked for a guy that lived to work and as a contractor dealing with government union employees, it turned out to suck serious ass. Job security, decent pay and the military habit of throwing myself completely into something regardless of whether I liked it or not and the next thing I know, nearly ten years has gone by. As you get older, time goes by faster. I have since changed jobs, actually civilian Air Force and have become one of those government union pukes. It is not bad and looking back, sure wish I would have put in considerably more effort into going somewhere else as soon as I realized I hated that first job.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

I'm contemplating this 

Want more time to spend with my kids and hit the trails...

Current shift work job has long hours and stress/pressure to perform.

As already said, feel I'm missing out on kids prime years and getting happy out on the trails.

Covid times though...?? Do need an income that matches current and that's unlikely.

Sent from my Asus Rog 3


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## MTB_Underdog (Jul 8, 2020)

I made a change about a year ago and overall have been pretty happy. When schools started opening up back around here last fall my wife (a teacher) went back full time while the kids were back 1/2 time. We weren't comfortable leaving the kids (13,9,9) home alone all day, so I switched to night shift. I'm a mechanic, went from working on customer cars to prepping used CARS for sale at a MAXimum sized car chain.

Wasn't sure I would like it but the change has been pretty positive. Making more money, less stress, and long weekends every week (get off Friday morning at 6:00 and don't go back until Monday at 7:00 pm). I drink less, watch less tv, get more sleep, and get to ride with the kids more often. I watch some of the younger guys I work with turn themselves inside out trying to turn 60-70 hours a week, it just isn't worth it to me. We have money to buy bikes, go on trips to the mountains for the weekend, and still pay the bills.

Spent 16 years at the dealership because I was afraid of change, been nothing but positive and I wish I had done it sooner.


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Spent 8 years at a job I hated. It was not easy to find something else and I spent years trying. When I finally got out it was cause for celebration.

If you have the means, quitting your job can be the best thing you ever did. But you better be prepared to go at least a year without a paycheck unless you're in a super high demand field like engineering or IT. Even then, you should be prepared to go without a paycheck for at least 6 months.

I've always been told it's easier to find a job if you already have one. But I do know people who up and quit terrible jobs and managed to find something better in a few months. It's a risk, especially in the U.S. where you lose health insurance. Sometimes we have to suffer in order to find happiness. Good luck!


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## 02Slayer (Mar 5, 2004)

I did it 3 years ago and it has been tough but great. 20 years ago began my career with a small start up. We crushed it, then of course got bought. Then bought again. And wound up part of a giant corporation that killed our product line and I didn't really see the point staying with an organization that saw no worth in what I considered at the time as my life's work. So I quit and became a consultant for a privately owned competitor. No shareholders forcing ridiculous decisions that kill morale and erode trust. A bunch of my collegues had already left and went to the competitor. They wanted me to join them, so I made the move and I couldn't be happier. I started off slow, per diem stuff here and there to build up relationships and trust with the bosses I did not know from the former gig. It was a definite drop in pay, health insurance gone, 401K gone, and lost my corporate vehicle. But integrity and not having the stress of 7 different bosses and being tracked by GPS constantly made the decision easy. I've expanded my work with my new company about 15% each of the first 2 years, and I'm going to surpass that rate this year a bit so I'm closing in on where I left my old job income-wise, and I'm happy about that. I have a couple other side gigs that just about make up the difference. I work from home and have the opportunity to ride more often. I wouldn't say it has been easy, but anything worth working for never really is. In my experience you have to have a gameplan which I had, and a financial cushion which I definitely needed, but managed not to completely deplete. I took the mindset that I was betting on myself, and that really made me more proactive and creative in terms of what I could offer my new employer.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

F.I.R.E.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Eff YES! I have fired my boss!


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Lenny7 said:


> F.I.R.E.


This has been my goal for a long time, but it's hard to do in today's world, especially if you're married. My wife does well, better than me, and we save a fair bit for retirement (max out 401k plans, Roth IRAs, etc). But I could cut my spending a lot more than she's comfortable with. I'm fine driving sub 20k cars and riding them until they die, taking fewer expensive vacations, eating out less, etc.

The other big issue is health care. It's easily going to be the biggest expense in retirement. If we lived in a more sane country than the U.S. and had access to socialized medicine, retiring early would be a hell of a lot easier.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

kpdemello said:


> This has been my goal for a long time, but it's hard to do in today's world, especially if you're married. My wife does well, better than me, and we save a fair bit for retirement (max out 401k plans, Roth IRAs, etc). But I could cut my spending a lot more than she's comfortable with. I'm fine driving sub 20k cars and riding them until they die, taking fewer expensive vacations, eating out less, etc.
> 
> The other big issue is health care. It's easily going to be the biggest expense in retirement. If we lived in a more sane country than the U.S. and had access to socialized medicine, retiring early would be a hell of a lot easier.


My wife and I are on schedule to retire in 5 years. I'll be 55 and she'll be 45. been about 5 years since she's had a car payment and been about 10 years for me. Will have the house payed off in a year and owe zero money to anyone. Then everything goes into index funds. Health care is one of if not the biggest roadblock. I'll be a retired teacher so I get fairly cheap insurance through my teacher retirement. My wife will have to get her own $policy$. Somehow every other country in the world has healthcare figured out but us. Also lucky that my wife is onboard, it was actually her idea and she has done tons of research on it. BIKES!(had to make it bike related)


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

kpdemello said:


> The other big issue is health care. It's easily going to be the biggest expense in retirement.


Medicare is socialized medicine, to some extent anyway.
If you are a high earner during your working years you pay in more than a lower earner. After retirement, those who make more money pay in more as well for Part B.
It's a fairly equitable set up. Social Security is set up in a similar fashion, pre-retirement.

Essentially, you pay insurance premiums for 45+ years with no concurrent benefits in order to get coverage at age 65.
Even at that, Medicare is under a fair amount of financial stress. In 2019, Medicare + Medicaid totaled about $1.4 Trillion. Apparently, it's not free. If you could get it at age 55, you'd have the population pay in for 10 years less and have 10 more years of outflows that would drain the system more, unless you significantly reduce benefits. (Or, impose income limits on doctors, nurses, plan administrators, medical device manufacturers and drug companies.) Now imagine that you could get the benefits from birth.

Anyway, I digress. The way the system works now, when you go on Medicare, with supplemental insurance, it works fairly well. Part B is $148 per month with a $200 deductible and supplemental F&G are not crazy expensive, if you need them. The downside, I suppose, is that you have to work until age 65. Though, under age 65, Medicaid is also available.

Edit: As far as other countries are concerned, those from Switzerland should comment on whether or not this is accurate.
"Even though Switzerland's healthcare system is universal, there is no free public healthcare in Switzerland. Instead, all residents of Switzerland must pay for their own private health insurance. This applies to both Swiss nationals and foreign expats."





Guide to Health Insurance and Healthcare System in Switzerland | InterNations


InterNations provides you what you need to know about health insurance and the healthcare system in Switzerland. Learn about costs, hospitals and much more.




www.internations.org


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Yes, you're right, it is socialized medicine. I guess what I really meant was universal health care. It's a big issue to discuss, but the bottom line is that if I lived in Canada, health insurance in early retirement would be a non-issue. Since I live in the U.S., I have to figure out a way to pay for it from age 55 to 65.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

There are good and bad regarding health care in Canada.

If you have a serious condition, you will likely be taken care of without having to go broke.
But anything elective, or minor etc, there can be very long waiting lists.

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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

kpdemello said:


> Ybut the bottom line is that if I lived in Canada, health insurance in early retirement would be a non-issue.


Or pretty much anywhere in Europe.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

jeremy3220 said:


> Or pretty much anywhere in Europe.


Again, "Even though Switzerland's healthcare system is universal, there is no free public healthcare in Switzerland. Instead, all residents of Switzerland must pay for their own private health insurance. This applies to both Swiss nationals and foreign expats." 
Universal doesn't mean free. I think what many people want is free, universal healthcare. There are always costs associated, even if they are hidden.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Costs aren't hidden, they are called higher taxes.



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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

What about return on investment?
The USA notoriously pays some of the highest health care costs with some of the poorest results in the Western world. Hell, we can't even negotiate directly with drug manufacturers on drug costs for what I would call unfettered corruption. Surely the billions that insurance companies rake in could be allocated toward better things. 

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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

Shark said:


> There are good and bad regarding health care in Canada.
> 
> If you have a serious condition, you will likely be taken care of without having to go broke.
> But anything elective, or minor etc, there can be very long waiting lists.
> ...


Apparently Canada is one of the worst examples for wait times. The U.S. isn't exactly stellar regarding wait times for elective surgeries either, though they are better than Canada. But there are lots of countries with universal socialized medicine that have similar or shorter wait times than the U.S.

Health Care Wait Times By Country 2021 (worldpopulationreview.com)


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

I live close to the canadian border. Before covid, the local private hospital would advertise in canada about coming down for the weekend, get your procedure and go back home on monday. They where always busy.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm going to give notice before the day is out. I'm a bit nervous. My folks are in declining health and they need me. My needs are to go spend some time with them before it's too late. 

Worked at this job for 15 years and has been my only "real" job. I learned a sheit-ton professionally and lots of growth personally as well. A bit mix of emotions walking away from a good and secure professional path. However, as the years have gone on, the less alive I have felt in the 9:00 to 5:00 grind. I'm not cut out for it. Not sure that work-life balance people speak to exists for me. 

So I'm going to go have some adventures. The kind of adventures you can only have with no extraneous obligations intact. All responsibilities severed. Wish me luck and maybe I'll see some of you out there. 

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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Good choice.
Hope your folks are doing ok. Cherish the time you have with them.

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Shark said:


> Good choice.
> Hope your folks are doing ok. Cherish the time you have with them.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Thanks, man. 

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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> I'm going to give notice before the day is out. I'm a bit nervous. My folks are in declining health and they need me. My needs are to go spend some time with them before it's too late.
> 
> Worked at this job for 15 years and has been my only "real" job. I learned a sheit-ton professionally and lots of growth personally as well. A bit mix of emotions walking away from a good and secure professional path. However, as the years have gone on, the less alive I have felt in the 9:00 to 5:00 grind. I'm not cut out for it. Not sure that work-life balance people speak to exists for me.
> 
> ...


Best of luck with everything you'll be dealing with. I did the aging parents thing. Tough duty


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

nhodge said:


> Best of luck with everything you'll be dealing with. I did the aging parents thing. Tough duty


Thank you. 
It'll be challenging, no question. Something I would regret tremendously though if I didn't. 

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## leecarey212 (Aug 19, 2017)

Just realised how old this thread is !!! I hope the op quit his job and went for it !!!! Wish I could do the same but gf and kids would probably notice if I sneaked out for a year 


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## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

I quit my job in 2014 to try to work more on my fitness and stress less. At the time I was living rent free on a ranch in trade for labor as a helping hand. The commute was about an hour each way a day and it was physically demanding (HVACR contractor). My boss denied me a deserved raise, and my ex wife and I did the math and figured I could stay at home, take care of everything, and she could work, so we did it. Didn't last long, but I learned a lot. Some lessons took years to understand. I am better at work/life balance now, at great financial cost. I am not poor, but I will never be wealthy or have the newest bike. My dream is to some day own the house my grandmother has via inheritance, that's my only wealth. Until then I split life living with my current GF with the option to return to living in the travel trailer at my grandmothers, or in my van (converted ambulance).

A friend of mine lives on the road. She wrote an article for a popular motorcycle site explaining how it works:








How can you afford to travel the world on a motorcycle? - RevZilla


The most common question to long-term motorcycle travelers is "How can you afford it?" Here's how one woman has done it several times.




www.revzilla.com





A have a coworker who is approaching 65, been working at this factory for 40 years, but can't retire until he actually reaches 65. He wants to go, bad. But he survived cancer once and can't take the financial risk of having it return without insurance, so he is waiting until 65.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Sidewalk said:


> I quit my job in 2014 to try to work more on my fitness and stress less. At the time I was living rent free on a ranch in trade for labor as a helping hand. The commute was about an hour each way a day and it was physically demanding (HVACR contractor). My boss denied me a deserved raise, and my ex wife and I did the math and figured I could stay at home, take care of everything, and she could work, so we did it. Didn't last long, but I learned a lot. Some lessons took years to understand. I am better at work/life balance now, at great financial cost. I am not poor, but I will never be wealthy or have the newest bike. My dream is to some day own the house my grandmother has via inheritance, that's my only wealth. Until then I split life living with my current GF with the option to return to living in the travel trailer at my grandmothers, or in my van (converted ambulance).
> 
> A friend of mine lives on the road. She wrote an article for a popular motorcycle site explaining how it works:
> 
> ...


I have no real qualms with my company. The guy I work for flew fighter jets in Vietnam including being shot down once. Managed to come back and build a small empire. I started 15 years ago at $14.50 an hour. This past year I made a little over 80k and have increased my salable skill set, big time. With that said if I had any ambition I would have started my own business 10 years ago. I contracted for 17 years (making FAR more money) before landing here and pushing the easy button was, well, easy. 

During those 17 years contracting I really only worked enough to save money for my next trip. That was typically 7 months to a year and I would take off an equal amount. Lots and lots and lots of time "down by the river" in my van. The absolute best times of my life by a country mile.

I do in fact plan on getting into great shape and doing the van thing for a clip. Youth is fleeting and use of my body is probably very near the backside of the bell curve. I never ever want to find myself in a position where I'm staying on a job in fear of what might happen. Easy to say from here but that's just no way to live. When it's over it's over and and nothing would have mattered much anyway. May as well enjoy the ride. 







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## LaloKera (Jul 31, 2015)

I have not quit yet but after my company sold last June, i decided to stick around until end of 2021 to save and learn a little from new admin. Not learning much to be honest. 

Well, I made it, Could be any time now. 
Iwas hoping they wwould give me the boot so I would qualify for unemployment but tdoesn't look that is going to happen.


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## SteveF (Mar 5, 2004)

I didn't quit specifically to ride more, but more riding is definitely one of the things I'm doing. I retired at the end of last August, a couple of weeks short of my 59th birthday. The timing just worked out. My sigoth has health issues and is taking care of a 95 year old mom with dementia. She needs my help. My folks are north of 80 and will probably need some help before too awful long. Also, after 38 years in the same position, my job was basically going to disappear, the new computer system they plan to install (have already started to install by now) would automate most of my online tasks, and my physical tasks were not enough to keep me busy for 40 hours/week. I wasn't forced out-my boss assured me that there were positions available if I wanted them but I don't really want to learn a new computer system and position at this point in my life. And honestly, I'm just sick of the grind. I've been paying into a 401k since I was around 30* and after talking to my adviser, there's enough to bridge safely to when social security kicks in. There won't be enough to live extravagantly but there's enough to live comfortably. That'll do.

*Young folks reading this-start saving now! Even $10/week will add up over the decades. You'll be glad you did when you're my age.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

My company was extremely gracious with my resignation. They instated OFLA/FMLA for me including covering the portion that comes out of my check for those 12 weeks. Not only that but they'll roll it over into Cobra and pay for that if I come back. They'll pay me out for my vacation time and unused sick time (which they're not obligated to do). Furthermore, they're going to pay me the difference in time so I get a full 80 hour paycheck on their dime. On top of that they'll prorate my apartment use in that check so it's like an extra $9 bucks an hour. Plus I can remain in my apartment after my last work day "for as long as I need". 

I wasn't sure what to expect, I thought it would be smooth but I had no idea they would be that accommodating. 

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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

MSU Alum said:


> Medicare is socialized medicine, to some extent anyway.
> If you are a high earner during your working years you pay in more than a lower earner. After retirement, those who make more money pay in more as well for Part B.
> It's a fairly equitable set up. Social Security is set up in a similar fashion, pre-retirement.
> 
> ...


The real problem is that medical care cost three to five times in the US what it cost in other developed Nations but with worse health outcomes and care. 


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

I lived like a pauper and debt free throughout my adult life and retired at 44.5 years old. No wife until last year. I live near Big Bear, CA and ride when I'm not traveling. I survived cancer at 28 and my outlook on life and priorities are vastly different than most others. I've dabbled since in consulting (orthopedic implants) but walked away completely in November. This pic is from last year in Sedona. The day before I was in Ireland.


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## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> My company was extremely gracious with my resignation. They instated OFLA/FMLA for me including covering the portion that comes out of my check for those 12 weeks. Not only that but they'll roll it over into Cobra and pay for that if I come back. They'll pay me out for my vacation time and unused sick time (which they're not obligated to do). Furthermore, they're going to pay me the difference in time so I get a full 80 hour paycheck on their dime. On top of that they'll prorate my apartment use in that check so it's like an extra $9 bucks an hour. Plus I can remain in my apartment after my last work day "for as long as I need".
> 
> I wasn't sure what to expect, I thought it would be smooth but I had no idea they would be that accommodating.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


Pays to be a good employee when you work for a good company with a really decent owner .
Congrats


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

WHALENARD said:


> My company was extremely gracious with my resignation. They instated OFLA/FMLA for me including covering the portion that comes out of my check for those 12 weeks. Not only that but they'll roll it over into Cobra and pay for that if I come back. They'll pay me out for my vacation time and unused sick time (which they're not obligated to do). Furthermore, they're going to pay me the difference in time so I get a full 80 hour paycheck on their dime. On top of that they'll prorate my apartment use in that check so it's like an extra $9 bucks an hour. Plus I can remain in my apartment after my last work day "for as long as I need".
> 
> I wasn't sure what to expect, I thought it would be smooth but I had no idea they would be that accommodating.
> 
> Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


That's great to hear!

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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

nhodge said:


> Pays to be a good employee when you work for a good company with a really decent owner .
> Congrats


Thank you.

I've been pondering that...
I view it as intentions. Mine were true and they responded in kind. 

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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Suns_PSD said:


> The real problem is that medical care cost three to five times in the US what it cost in other developed Nations but with worse health outcomes and care.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Most of our "solutions" aren't "solutions".
When the affordable Care Act was signed into law. UHC (United Health Care stock) was at $30 a share. Now it's close to $500 a share. That was a typical industry result. When the health care industry gets a 1700% increase in company value, you can see what direction the money is flowing.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

My wife and I plan to retire "early" 2 years. I'll be 52 and she'll be 42. Moving to Mexico, my wife is a dual citizen. We'll get healthcare for $400-800 a year for both. The US healthcare system is criminal. We just want to ride, travel, relax and volunteer...


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## LaloKera (Jul 31, 2015)

Lenny7 said:


> My wife and I plan to retire "early" 2 years. I'll be 52 and she'll be 42. Moving to Mexico, my wife is a dual citizen. We'll get healthcare for $400-800 a year for both. The US healthcare system is criminal. We just want to ride, travel, relax and volunteer...


Just curious, where in Mexico? 
My family is from Mexico and my dad is currently living there. He owns a few acres his dad left him and Living rent free and option to survive off the land. Can plant crops and raise animals.
We have endless hills and mesas behind his land so i would be able to bike all day, every day as well. 
That is my Plan B for retirement(might become plan A) real soon. I am not dual citizen but believe i can easily become since my parents are both Mexican. 

My worries are Mexican healthcare and security.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

LaloKera said:


> Just curious, where in Mexico?
> 
> My worries are Mexican healthcare and security.


We are eyeing San Miguel de Allende. It's a high desert about 6,200 feet (great year round climate), colonial town about 3 hours from Mexico city. I has a large expat community. However, when we visit, we don't see many gringos. It has great restaurants that can be pricey or great small local places that are crazy cheap. It is generally more expensive than most towns in Mexico because of the expats but still far cheaper than here in Texas.


All our research seems to point toward good healthcare. Saw a youtube vid about healthcare in Mexico and the guy knows a lady who had to have knee surgery and it was all out of pocket and it was around $3k if I remember correctly. She wasn't a citizen and hadn't bought an insurance plan (which are dirt cheap) yet which would have made it even cheaper. Uninsured cost of a knee surgery here would be$30-40K plus the crazy monthly premiums? Don't get me started about Mexico's property tax. We'll save almost as much on property tax there as we will healthcare. Here's a good vid on health insurance and quality of care. 




As far as safety, I'm much more afraid of my safety here than I ever have in Mexico. Probably much more likely to die in a mall shooting or drunk driver here than drug cartel violence there. Never felt unsafe walking a night there. But much like the states, there are certain cities I wouldn't not feel safe in.
Sorry for the long response, we're excited.

Where is your dad's property?


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## LaloKera (Jul 31, 2015)

Lenny7 said:


> We are eyeing San Miguel de Allende. It's a high desert about 6,200 feet (great year round climate), colonial town about 3 hours from Mexico city. I has a large expat community. However, when we visit, we don't see many gringos. It has great restaurants that can be pricey or great small local places that are crazy cheap. It is generally more expensive than most towns in Mexico because of the expats but still far cheaper than live here in Texas.
> 
> 
> All our research seems to point toward good healthcare. Saw a youtube vid about healthcare in Mexico and the guy knows a lady who had to have knee surgery and it was all out of pocket and it was around $3k if I remember correctly. She wasn't a citizen and hadn't bought an insurance plan (which are dirt cheap) yet which would have made it even cheaper. Uninsured cost of a knee surgery here would be$30-40K plus the crazy monthly premiums? Don't get me started about Mexico's property tax. We'll save almost as much on property tax there as we will healthcare.
> ...


Northern Jalisco. About 200km north of Guad. Small village with the a pretty large pueblo about 15 minute drive away. 
Summers are gorgeous since everything turns green in the rainy season. 

I visit about once a year. every 2-3 years I actually drive down from Cali (road trip) so I can take the bike along. 
Spend a couple weeks a year there. Never have i ever had an issue in my lifetime.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Lenny7 said:


> Saw a youtube vid about healthcare in Mexico and the guy knows a lady who had to have knee surgery and it was all out of pocket and it was around $3k if I remember correctly. She wasn't a citizen and hadn't bought an insurance plan (which are dirt cheap) yet which would have made it even cheaper. Uninsured cost of a knee surgery here would be$30-40K plus the crazy monthly premiums?


I'm a bit confused. 
20% of the population is on Medicaid in the U.S. and 15% are on Medicare. Both of those cover knee surgery/replacement. Another 55% of Americans are on employer provided insurance. I had a killer plan when I was working, and two years of cancer treatment cost me $0. I'm sure that, of that 55% some of the plans aren't nearly as good, but I don't understand why someone would go to Mexico for the health care. But I'm sure there are subsets of the population for whom that makes very good sense.


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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

MSU Alum said:


> I'm a bit confused.
> 20% of the population is on Medicaid in the U.S. and 15% are on Medicare. Both of those cover knee surgery/replacement. Another 55% of Americans are on employer provided insurance. I had a killer plan when I was working, and two years of cancer treatment cost me $0. I'm sure that, of that 55% some of the plans aren't nearly as good, but I don't understand why someone would go to Mexico for the health care. But I'm sure there are subsets of the population for whom that makes very good sense.


I'm mainly referring to moving there and there being no to very little premiums and even if you pay out of pocket, it's "cheap." Not living here and going there for procedures. Although, some may do that. 
We have some friends who the wife is a stay at home mom and she has no insurance at all. Zero. So, If something big happens to her they are gonna be hung out to dry. I would wear bubble wrap everywhere. 
Luckily, I really don't know why or how someone wouldn't have insurance. If your job doesn't offer it and you don't get your own or sign up for the ACA then I think you don't have insurance.? Medicaid and Medicare are for older people of a certain age, right? My parents have a group of friends who take their RV's to Mexico every few years and get all their dental work done. Dental insurance is a joke. Pays 50% if you're lucky, which is fine for small stuff but if you need crowns or a root canal, $$$.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Lenny7 said:


> I'm mainly referring to moving there and there being no to very little premiums and even if you pay out of pocket, it's "cheap." Not living here and going there for procedures. Although, some may do that.
> We have some friends who the wife is a stay at home mom and she has no insurance at all. Zero. So, If something big happens to her they are gonna be hung out to dry. I would wear bubble wrap everywhere.
> Luckily, I really don't know why or how someone wouldn't have insurance. If your job doesn't offer it and you don't get your own or sign up for the ACA then I think you don't have insurance.? Medicaid and Medicare are for older people of a certain age, right? My parents have a group of friends who take their RV's to Mexico every few years and get all their dental work done. Dental insurance is a joke. Pays 50% if you're lucky, which is fine for small stuff but if you need crowns or a root canal, $$$.


Medicare is insurance for mainly older people, over the age of 65.
Medicare Part A pays for hospitalization, home nursing and hospice care. Once you're on Social Security, Part A is free.
Medicare Part B pays for medical care, outpatient care, etc. Essentially everything else with deductibles.
Medicare Part B costs $148.50 per month in premiums, unless you make more than $176,000 per year filing jointly. Your premiums go up as you make more money.
Living in another country if you're on Medicare would be a huge failure of an IQ test, as Medicare then won't cover you. Free is still better than cheap.
If you are just visiting, Medicare will cover your medical expenses.
Almost 63,000,000 Americans are on Medicare.

Tricare is a medical benefit for retired military that essentially pays for everything else, deductibles, drugs, etc.

Medicaid is the federal program of health insurance for people on assistance.
CHIP is medical insurance for uninsured children.
Over 83,000,000 Americans get their insurance from Medicaid and CHIP.

I'm not trying to make a point with these statistics, I just think they're interesting is all.

Generally, a spouse and children of a worker with employer health insurance is covered. My wife was not employed but was covered, as were my kids. You can elect to not have your spouse and children covered, but that would be pretty irresponsible and wouldn't even save much money.


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## MaX-D (May 13, 2020)

I've been self employed for 25 years, and have been in the swimming pool industry for 32 yrs in South Florida. I would love to sell my business and do something different and less demanding of my time so i could ride my bike more. I work 12hr days 6 days a week. 

The problem is in today's economy, what would I do to make the money I do now. Nothing! I've pondered this for 2 years. There are many benefits to my job. I try to stay positive and keep moving forward. I'm just tired of working out in the hot Florida sun. 

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## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

MaX-D said:


> The problem is in today's economy, what would I do to make the money I do now.


There has never been a better employee friendly market. Jobs at pretty much every level are everywhere. 
If you sold your business, why would need an equal paying job? Wouldn't the idea of the sell be to use that money to help transition into an early retirement or a much less demanding job? Equal paying job equals as much stress as you were in with the previous job. I obviously, don't know you or your situation so these are real questions and not judgements in any way.


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## MaX-D (May 13, 2020)

Lenny7 said:


> There has never been a better employee friendly market. Jobs at pretty much every level are everywhere.
> If you sold your business, why would need an equal paying job? Wouldn't the idea of the sell be to use that money to help transition into an early retirement or a much less demanding job? Equal paying job equals as much stress as you were in with the previous job. I obviously, don't know you or your situation so these are real questions and not judgements in any way.


Very good insight here. You've given me much more to think about. Thank you my friend.

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## numbnuts (Apr 20, 2006)

Only once since college (clearly seasonal gigs prior don't count). Left my first construction firm in the bay area after 5 years because it was clear the family owned business had a ceiling on non family members becoming partners. Left, and have owned my own construction firm for the last 6 years. Next time I quit it will be for retirement. Pick one thing and be good at it.


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## MTB_Underdog (Jul 8, 2020)

MSU Alum said:


> Generally, a spouse and children of a worker with employer health insurance is covered. My wife was not employed but was covered, as were my kids. You can elect to not have your spouse and children covered, but that would be pretty irresponsible and wouldn't even save much money.


They're not automatically covered, it would cost me $200/week to add my family to my employee benefits. And that's just health ins, doesn't get into vision and dental. Fortunately my wife is a teacher so it's a lot cheaper to carry the kids on her plan. Insurance cost was the one thing we couldn't make work when we had kids and thought about her staying home. Everything else would work out, but the extra $1k out of my check just made the numbers impossible.

$12k a year for insurance may not be much money to you, but it is to me and a lot of other people.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

MTB_Underdog said:


> They're not automatically covered, it would cost me $200/week to add my family to my employee benefits. And that's just health ins, doesn't get into vision and dental. Fortunately my wife is a teacher so it's a lot cheaper to carry the kids on her plan. Insurance cost was the one thing we couldn't make work when we had kids and thought about her staying home. Everything else would work out, but the extra $1k out of my check just made the numbers impossible.
> 
> $12k a year for insurance may not be much money to you, but it is to me and a lot of other people.


As you said, your wife's insurance is a lot cheaper than $200 a week, so you're not paying $12,000 a year for your kids, are you?
You could probably decline your own company insurance and go on with your wife's insurance to save money.

The highest income for a family of four to qualify for CHIP is $4,314 per month or $51,578 per year. In comparison, a family of four can make $2,854 a month or $34,248 a year to qualify for Medicaid. A family of five can make $5,054 monthly or $60,642 yearly and may still qualify for CHIP insurance for the children.
Maybe you should look into CHIP and/or Medicaid. If you qualify, you could save a lot of money.
There are federal and in some cases state subsidies for coverage if your income exceeds those levels.

I get it. There was a time when I held two jobs so that my wife could stay with the kids. We thought that was important when they were little. A mountain bike was out of the question and I was looking hard at a $100 kayak paddle I couldn't afford and didn't get. You have to do what you have to do.


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