# How did you decide between a SL and full power Ebike?



## habaden (Sep 16, 2019)

I'm currently having some e bike curiosity and having never ridden one, I'm a little turned off by the weight of these full-powered ebikes. I really like the concept of bikes like the Orbea Rise and Specialized Kenevo SL but am just worried that when I want to do big days they won't have enough juice, then again, who knows if I even have enough juice for that amount of riding. I'm pretty much only going to be riding solo so keeping up with other people on big bikes isn't a concern, but I do think having the flexibility of a big motor that can climb up any trail would be nice too.

How did you guys choose?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

How in shape are you and how many miles are your rides? Hilly? Flat? How much do you weigh? I’ve owned a Rise and now have a Levo. The weight is felt on a FF but not like you’d think. Either bike is awesome. Good luck


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

habaden said:


> I'm currently having some e bike curiosity and having never ridden one, I'm a little turned off by the weight of these full-powered ebikes. I really like the concept of bikes like the Orbea Rise and Specialized Kenevo SL but am just worried that when I want to do big days they won't have enough juice, then again, who knows if I even have enough juice for that amount of riding. I'm pretty much only going to be riding solo so keeping up with other people on big bikes isn't a concern, but I do think having the flexibility of a big motor that can climb up any trail would be nice too.
> 
> How did you guys choose?


I would ask yourself how this new e bike fits into your quiver. If you plan to keep riding your (lightweight) mountain bike, I recommend the best 50 lb e bike you can afford - they really are fun to ride etc. However, I do think that the lightweight ones could end up being the 'quiver killer' for some younger fit riders.


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## habaden (Sep 16, 2019)

Gutch said:


> How in shape are you and how many miles are your rides? Hilly? Flat? How much do you weigh? I’ve owned a Rise and now have a Levo. The weight is felt on a FF but not like you’d think. Either bike is awesome. Good luck


Average ride is between 6-8 miles right now. Fitness is probably around average? I weigh around 185-190lbs geared up and can usually climb up a 3-4 mile fire road for our trails with minimal walking. I think my use case would be to just get more rides in the week as right now I'm pretty gassed after my usual rides. I'd also like to explore trail systems that would otherwise be really steep climbs with minimal payoff.


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## habaden (Sep 16, 2019)

Jack7782 said:


> I would ask yourself how this new e bike fits into your quiver. If you plan to keep riding your (lightweight) mountain bike, I recommend the best 50 lb e bike you can afford - they really are fun to ride etc. However, I do think that the lightweight ones could end up being the 'quiver killer' for some younger fit riders.


Do you have a full-size one you'd recommend that still is on the livelier side of things and jumps well?


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

habaden said:


> Do you have a full-size one you'd recommend that still is on the livelier side of things and jumps well?


New Levo Gen3


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Ebikes are not the same as mtb's. The thrill is different and it comes from being able to loop your favorite trails. DON'T GET AN SL.

The bigger the battery the better and get more travel than you "need".

Weight doesn't matter and is better going DH. On the climbs you want Power.

I'm even running Super Soft DH tires just because I can.


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Ah yes, the bigger the battery the better it is indeed that is so true.
Also the more power the better imho
I always hated not having enough power but I went big right from the get go, I never messed around with low power systems. I guess for example, 250w is useless for me so thankfully I am not in britain or australia or europe, 750w barely cuts the mustard for some things but I guess if I geared the motor right with the proper motor kv laced to a certain diameter wheel it would kick some butt up the hills I go up at the weight I am. So many terms, SL is the model of the ebike I get that but what does "full power ebike" mean? do you mean throttle only with no pas?


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## the-ninth (Nov 1, 2013)

Myself I am still riding a non-motorized bike, but got an Levo SL for my girlfriend. She does not ride that often, and the SL is perfect for her to be able to keep up with me. We now can do rides with 1000+ meter of elevation gain together, after which she is still properly tired. Battery life is sufficient for 5-6 hours in the saddle, so far we did not have an issue there. So if it is about keeping up with fitter riders, or just extending your range, then I think the SL is perfect. If it is about getting up the hill as fast as possible to loop your trails and get maximum downhill time, then a "full" e-bike might be the better choice.


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## Danzzz88 (Jun 10, 2020)

E bike have all the pluses you want including the increased plushness from the sprung mass...unfortunately this is great DH for rolling in a straight line and plowing, it's not so great for aggressive riders looking to corner as fast and hard as possible. A 27.5 long travel enduro would run rings around a 29er e bike on twisty DH trails.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Danzzz88 said:


> E bike have all the pluses you want including the increased plushness from the sprung mass...unfortunately this is great DH for rolling in a straight line and plowing, it's not so great for aggressive riders looking to corner as fast and hard as possible. A 27.5 long travel enduro would run rings around a 29er e bike on twisty DH trails.


True to an extent… Although not as nimble as a mtb on 27.5 I find my speed on my Mullet Levo is pretty comparable. You have to change your riding style and start your turns and maneuvers early. They weight makes my bike incredibly glued to the ground. I can Rail corners quite well, faster than I was on my mtb. The traction is insane.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

Danzzz88 said:


> E bike have all the pluses you want including the increased plushness from the sprung mass...unfortunately this is great DH for rolling in a straight line and plowing, it's not so great for aggressive riders looking to corner as fast and hard as possible. A 27.5 long travel enduro would run rings around a 29er e bike on twisty DH trails.


A 35lb enduro bike and a 55lb Eduro bike will both run the same times or the Ebike will be faster as you can accelerate out of the corners. We have matching segments for both normal and E. E is always faster DH even on technical tight tracks. The weight makes the suspension work better and the motor kick out of corners gets you back up to speed. I don't even feel the weight when I'm riding.

I'm on an S5 Kenevo. One of the longest bikes made.


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## Tickle (Dec 11, 2013)

I choose the Rise cause I was concerned about the weight of a full power emtb and how it would handle on some of the trails I ride, it rides like a regular MB and I can get around 30-35 miles & 3-4k climbing in trail mode with some eco mode mixed in on the descents. I would say it just depends on your trails and how big of rides your doing, also the full power emtb's seem to be more affordable and available


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

I own a rise, have ridden MANY full weight/power ebikes. FWIW, I disagree with the advice being given. I prefer how the lighter weight ebikes ride to the heavy ones overall. I have an orbea rise and I prefer that to the specialized as it has twice the power, more battery and I like the range extender design. Based on the information you provided above, I feel like you would be best served by a bike like the Rise over a full power ebike. 

As noted above, ebiking isn't the same as mountain biking, and that's beyond just the fitness, suffering aspect. On any type of ebike, your engagement in the trail is simply different because you are climbing with different pacing and using different techniques. I find that the experience on lighter ebikes, is more mountain bike adjacent then full power/battery sleds. I think the full power experience is fun and exhilarating because the surge in power and the weight is impossible not to notice... however it's impossible not to just be consumed by the fact that you are not on a normal bike while going both uphill and downhill. In contrast, on the lighter weight ebikes... I find that I just go out for a bike ride and I ride the same way, and do largely the same things... just way more of it and with different routes.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

I ride 10-15mi, ~1300-1800ft up/loop maximum. So for me a lightweight bike still gives ample battery, and the goal of building endurance.

However, I may buy a YT Decoy with ~500w battery simply because of price. 7K for a good build vs 11k Kenevo SL...... 4k buys a-lot of shuttles/tires and 400mi gas for round trip rides for getting together for big shuttle days....

I demo'd a Levo SL XL which is definitely not the geo I want, but as far power, even eco mode is more than plenty for big climb days, yet I can have fun going uphill popping off of stuff.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think it really depends on three things

1. What your trails are like. If you are doing big fire road climbs and then a long descent and looking to do laps, full power is pretty darn nice. But if you have a lot of rolling single track then light weight might be preferred.

2. Your owns size and fitness level. My wife and is 120lb and a former professional XC racer. A light weight bike like Levo SL or Rise is super fast for her. But a 250lb rider without same level of fitness is going to be looking for more watts from the bike. 

3. Who you ride with. If everybody is on full power bikes and you are on a light weight one you are going to be working hard to keep up. But if everyone is on conventional bikes and you are on a full power E-bike you are going to feel like you are hardly working to ride with them.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

I just bought a Kenevo SL and have owned 2 other full sized ebikes. And I am definitely concerned about it not having enough power and range, as I mainly ride with other ebikers and like doing long rides. But we shall see, it should descend great which is most important to me.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

REZEN said:


> I ride 10-15mi, ~1300-1800ft up/loop maximum. So for me a lightweight bike still gives ample battery, and the goal of building endurance.
> 
> However, I may buy a YT Decoy with ~500w battery simply because of price. 7K for a good build vs 11k Kenevo SL...... 4k buys a-lot of shuttles/tires and 400mi gas for round trip rides for getting together for big shuttle days....
> 
> I demo'd a Levo SL XL which is definitely not the geo I want, but as far power, even eco mode is more than plenty for big climb days, yet I can have fun going uphill popping off of stuff.


7k for a decoy doesn’t sound like a good deal. You can have my bike for less, which had (2) 630wh batteries, and a spare motor still new in box. No need to ever shuttle when you can get 50 miles and 10k’ of climbing out of this setup.

*Shameless plug. But if interested, I can message you the ad link in a few days. Want to install new codes, new wheelset, new tires, etc first.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

^No thanks on the aluminum, and battery is much too large for me. My shop has Kenevo SL Comp in S4 and S5 (both will work depending on feel) at 6' 3", 9k...may just do that. I don't buy used bikes anyway.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

REZEN said:


> ^No thanks on the aluminum, and battery is much too large for me. My shop has Kenevo SL Comp in S4 and S5 (both will work depending on feel) at 6' 3", 9k...may just do that. I don't buy used bikes anyway.


Regardless of bike, why is the battery being too large an issue? That's like saying you don't want a certain car because the gas tank volume is too large.


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

RBoardman said:


> Regardless of bike, why is the battery being too large an issue? That's like saying you don't want a certain car because the gas tank volume is too large.


Too much weight that I won't use. Read my first post. Also, full fat bikes will be too much work to pedal uphill if I do run out. With the SL, I won't care, it pedals fine uphill, and on the down, will feel much better in the baby heads we have to float on top of here.

As to your comment on the Decoy pricing....~7k is new pricing here. I will never buy a used e-bike


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## minimusprime (May 26, 2009)

RBoardman said:


> Regardless of bike, why is the battery being too large an issue? That's like saying you don't want a certain car because the gas tank volume is too large.





REZEN said:


> Too much weight that I won't use. Read my first post. Also, full fat bikes will be too much work to pedal uphill if I do run out. With the SL, I won't care, it pedals fine uphill, and on the down, will feel much better in the baby heads we have to float on top of hear.
> 
> As to your comment on the Decoy pricing....~7k is new pricing here. I will never buy a used e-bike


I bought my rise partially based on not needing to carry more battery then I needed for a given ride. It allows me to ditch 4ish pounds off the bike and also gives me the option of carrying an extra range extender in a backpack should I ever want to do 8k+. 

Regarding used ebikes... I too will never buy a used ebike. Maybe once/if motor and battery refurb was more common I'd be more inclined... but right now it's not where it would need to be.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

I originally had a full power Levo. 52 pounds and I was using maybe half of the battery on 30 mile rides. My E-mountain bike (Levo SL) is 38 pounds and change and handles like my mountain bike.

It has a surprising amount of range, especially using the range extender. I am relatively fit and do ride my mountain bike quite a lot though (for days I want to do zone 3/4 cardio). Using mostly eco (with trail and turbo here and there) w/range extender (total battery capacity of 480 wh), have done big rides 30-40 miles w/ 5000 ft climbing with about 15-20% battery left.

The SL has a remote to cycle between power modes and you can actually turn the motor off while riding. The Spez 1.1 motor has no noticable drag when pedaling with no assistance. I sometimes turn the motor off on longer descents.

My current bike is a light SJ, but I used to have a SC Hightower 2 which weighed 32.5 pounds. The ride characteristic while descending between the SL and the HT was indistinguishable when the motor was off. The 52# Levo was a handful.

The SL and Rise will require you to put more effort into your ride than a full power Levo.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

I struggle with the lightweight low power vs full power thing. At the end of the day, carrying around the big 750wh battery, and having the "full power" 560w on tap doesn't hurt me to have those in reserve, aside from that lightweight downhill handling feel, but I tend to enjoy the stability that the added weight of my full power bike provides. 

I'm just starting to play around with pedaling with the motor off, and it's fine. It's no different than an analog bike. I don't really want to climb on this 55 pound bike much with the motor off, but can if circumstances dictate.

At the end of the day, it just comes down to what you value, lightweight handling, uphill power/speed, range, etc.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

REZEN said:


> Too much weight that I won't use. Read my first post. Also, full fat bikes will be too much work to pedal uphill if I do run out. With the SL, I won't care, it pedals fine uphill, and on the down, will feel much better in the baby heads we have to float on top of here.
> 
> As to your comment on the Decoy pricing....~7k is new pricing here. I will never buy a used e-bike


Ok. Should have know your were a weight weenie caring more about the scale reading than how a bike actually rides out on the trail. I also have a decoy in my garage, which is where the “not worth the price” comment came from. That bike is less superior in every way compared to my Commencal or Kenevo SL.


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## Gutch (Dec 17, 2010)

Different strokes for different folks! Just did a rip, so nice when the bike is dialed, so much damn fun! I, like CJ also like the weight stability of the FF, although my Rise was an awesome bike as well. Whatever you choose is gonna be fun, and it probably won’t be your last ebike!


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## REZEN (Aug 7, 2020)

RBoardman said:


> Ok. Should have know your were a weight weenie caring more about the scale reading than how a bike actually rides out on the trail. I also have a decoy in my garage, which is where the “not worth the price” comment came from. That bike is less superior in every way compared to my Commencal or Kenevo SL.


Not a weight weenie at all. As stated I do not want to carry what I will not use, so I might as well have something that is much easier to flick, jump, pickup and carry for hike a bike (I have a fair number of trails I like that still have parts where its bike over your head....)

I am sure the Commencal is nice, I don't want aluminum. I hate to see weld lines. I wish they cleaned it up like Cannondale used to do with handheld belt sanders.

The YT was in my discussion because the price point hits a home run as well as build spec. I do enjoy the way both the 29er and Mx ride, but where I live I prefer full 29 and more than 150mm of travel. While I enjoy my Hightower V2, I much prefer the horst rear end, or 6 bar, which I did not want to believe when I bought my HT.

You seem to be looking to argue vs debate. I would state this is not wise and should be avoided for the foreseeable future. Set to ignore user from here on out :-D


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## Calsun (May 12, 2021)

The Specialized are the lightest and have the optional range extender that is a battery pack the size of a water bottle and provides 50% more range if you want it.


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