# Banshee Darkside vs Enduro Expert Evo 650b



## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

Sorry for my bad english.

I want to buy one of this two bikes.

With the banshee i want to use a fox 36 kashima, a cane creek double barrel and saint parts.

Both bikes have the same price.

Which one do you think is the better one?


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

An Enduro with a boxxer? Seems a bit poorly matched for general riding. I'd go with the Banshee myself, just because I don't like the way Specialized's FSR suspension feels.


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## DirtMerchantBicycles (May 23, 2014)

I like the Darkside:thumbsup:


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

Darkside.


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## ustemuf (Oct 12, 2009)

IMO, Darkside.


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## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

Ok thank you! The Darkside might be a great bike


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## ithacking (Oct 15, 2012)

You all just threw Enduro away, why? He can always sell Boxxer and get something smaller and profit on that. 
Try out both bikes, they are both really good. Maybe the whole world says Darkside is better, but it is you who decides, maybe you find Enduro more comfortable and maybe not. Give it a test run, that's the only way


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

^ True, test riding is important for sure. But if he's asking which one I'd purchase, I'd buy almost any bike before I bought a Specialized.

It would be difficult to sell the boxxer for much of a profit since it wouldn't come with a warranty. Maybe the shop that is selling the bike would do a trade, but I doubt it. The biggest reason I wouldn't go for the Enduro is because I don't like the way they ride. They either feel very springy or very mushy in the back end, so it never feels great on both climbs and descents unless you adjust your suspension when switching from climbing to descending and vice versa. Nobody likes having to re-adjust things like that. I do realize that some people like the way they feel. I just don't.

The other problem with the Enduro (and almost all Specialized bikes) is that they use custom, proprietary components. Like their stupid 142+ size rear hub. Why on EARTH did they make a hub that is a few mm larger than the standard that everyone else uses? You get practically no benefit. Now if you break a hub, you cannot upgrade to something better like a Hope or DT Swiss hub, because it won't fit properly. You have to get one of the Specialized hubs, which is lower quality, and often more expensive. 

This is also true with suspension. They often have Fox build them a special shock that has different diameter stanchions, seals, etc. When a seal fails (and they all fail), you can't find a seal kit at a shop, unless they are an authorized Specialized dealer. This isn't always a problem, but when you are on a riding trip somewhere and you blow a shock, your trip may be ruined if there is no Specialized dealer nearby.

It is just so much nicer to get a frame that uses commonly accepted standards. That way, you aren't locked down to a certain brand if you want to upgrade the components later on.


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## cerebroside (Jun 25, 2011)

+1 to Darkside.



ithacking said:


> You all just threw Enduro away, why? He can always sell Boxxer and get something smaller and profit on that.
> Try out both bikes, they are both really good. Maybe the whole world says Darkside is better, but it is you who decides, maybe you find Enduro more comfortable and maybe not. Give it a test run, that's the only way


Ideally yes, but it's going to be hard to demo both those bikes on a real trail unless you can find rentals, and I doubt OP will make a profit swapping bundled parts.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

For 2015 Specialized is listing their dropouts as 142mm, all previous years they were listed as 142mm+. In other words, this may have changed; probably so they can sell their Roval wheels aftermarket. If you look on their wheels page they are listing both now. 

The Enduro EVO and Darkside are pretty different. If you want something that needs to do some climbing get the Enduro EVO. If climbing isn't necessary get the Darkside.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

the evo is runnin an ohlins out back isn't it? same adjustability as a ccdb coil. should be able to dial out lsc and midstroke of fsr to your liking. a dropped boxxer at 180 can be a pretty cool fun setup. 

great problem ya got, op!


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## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

And what do you think about the Transition tr500?


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## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

Would you ride the darkside with a single or double crown for great bike park action?


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## TheRage43 (Jul 19, 2012)

+1 for Darkside. Put a Metric on it and mmmm, sex


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## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

charging_rhinos said:


> ^ True, test riding is important for sure. But if he's asking which one I'd purchase, I'd buy almost any bike before I bought a Specialized.
> 
> It would be difficult to sell the boxxer for much of a profit since it wouldn't come with a warranty. Maybe the shop that is selling the bike would do a trade, but I doubt it. The biggest reason I wouldn't go for the Enduro is because I don't like the way they ride. They either feel very springy or very mushy in the back end, so it never feels great on both climbs and descents unless you adjust your suspension when switching from climbing to descending and vice versa. Nobody likes having to re-adjust things like that. I do realize that some people like the way they feel. I just don't.
> 
> ...


This is wrong, or at least the rear hub part. The rear will still accept a 142 standard hub, you just need to readjust the derailler. It is actually a pretty good system and the rear shock mount is the only thing that is proprietary. There are shock options for this bike tho from fox, rockshox, cane creek, ohlins pretty much anything you could want besides a vivid air.


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## schoolisbad1 (Dec 17, 2004)

mtnbiker831 said:


> This is wrong, or at least the rear hub part. The rear will still accept a 142 standard hub, you just need to readjust the derailler. It is actually a pretty good system and the rear shock mount is the only thing that is proprietary. There are shock options for this bike tho from fox, rockshox, cane creek, ohlins pretty much anything you could want besides a vivid air.


correct


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

Picked up one of the new 650b EVOs last weekend. It's replacing my DH bike - a Yeti 303R, mainly because I want something with a climb friendly seatpost angle. With a stock setup, it handles like a very burly AM bike. However, put a 26" wheel in the rear and it handles like a short travel DH bike. With an 8" fork and 26" wheels front and back it handles like a full DH bike. With that setup the HA ~64 deg, WB is 47" (medium) and the BB comes in at 13 3/8". If I hopped on it without knowing the rear travel I wouldn't guess that it's only 180mm; I'd just assume that the rear was more progressive then what I'm used to (the Yeti is very linear). Contrary to what someone posted above, the rear doesn't feel springy or mushy; it feels more progressive, ramping up support through the mid-stroke. I pulled off a long fire road grind over the weekend with the 8" fork/26" wheels setup with DH tires and had no issues with how it climbed.

Overall I'm impressed with how versatile this thing is; I've wound up with 3 bikes in 1, and I'm even more impressed with how it does as a straight DH bike replacement.

Also - it runs a standard 142mm hub just fine.


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## ThomasF (Oct 4, 2013)

darkside.


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## ThomasF (Oct 4, 2013)

yeah, the rear takes normal 142's its just the Roval 142+ hubs don't fit normal 142 bikes. but i said darkside because banshee bikes is incredible. and i wouldn't get a Boxxer on it, i'd rather have a 180 36 fox. the banshee seems to be everything you want. the Evo looks like a half assed attempt for a FR bike from Spesh, but the Darkside is well thought out. yes, the Evo is lighter, but for the **** you'll be riding with the Darkside, you won't care. get the better frame, come to the Darkside.


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## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

ThomasF said:


> yeah, the rear takes normal 142's its just the Roval 142+ hubs don't fit normal 142 bikes. but i said darkside because banshee bikes is incredible. and i wouldn't get a Boxxer on it, i'd rather have a 180 36 fox. the banshee seems to be everything you want. the Evo looks like a half assed attempt for a FR bike from Spesh, but the Darkside is well thought out. yes, the Evo is lighter, but for the **** you'll be riding with the Darkside, you won't care. get the better frame, come to the Darkside.


Yeah well, this half assed attempt won a couple World Cup downhills.


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## Trasselkalle (Sep 5, 2014)

As soon as a Spec bike is one of two options, many will prefer a smaller/different brand than Spec as Spec have been quite aggressive in their marketing and product strategy. I'm not sure if the OP is still reading this thread though. From the OP's recent postings in the Banshee thread, and his questions on the Transition forum, it appears that he's considering the Darkside or TR500 now instead (but leaning towards the Darkside).


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## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

I will buy both of them. Tr500 and darkside. One for my wife and one for me. After all i think both bikes are amazing and i'm sure i can't go wrong with one of them.


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## Trasselkalle (Sep 5, 2014)

Oh that's super nice, Manuel. No doubt, that will make you both happy!


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## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

Right now i only have to choose the design...


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## Trasselkalle (Sep 5, 2014)

I'd go black, if you want that color on the rims.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Nice choices


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## ThomasF (Oct 4, 2013)

mtnbiker831 said:


> Yeah well, this half assed attempt won a couple World Cup downhills.


yeah, because of the riders.


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## ThomasF (Oct 4, 2013)

Manuel Jost said:


> I will buy both of them. Tr500 and darkside. One for my wife and one for me. After all i think both bikes are amazing and i'm sure i can't go wrong with one of them.
> 
> View attachment 955788
> 
> ...


that black transition is HOT!!

and the blue in the darkside would match the wheels and bars well too


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## Manuel Jost (Dec 21, 2014)

Which of them do you think is the better Park bike?


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## ThomasF (Oct 4, 2013)

hmmmm... idk. never ridden either, but my friend has a transition and loves it as a park bike. but i know banshees are great park bikes. you have to ride them to know haha


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

ThomasF said:


> yeah, the rear takes normal 142's its just the Roval 142+ hubs don't fit normal 142 bikes. but i said darkside because banshee bikes is incredible. and i wouldn't get a Boxxer on it, i'd rather have a 180 36 fox. the banshee seems to be everything you want. the Evo looks like a half assed attempt for a FR bike from Spesh, but the Darkside is well thought out. yes, the Evo is lighter, but for the **** you'll be riding with the Darkside, you won't care. get the better frame, come to the Darkside.


So you've never ridden a Darkside, and you haven't ridden the new EVO...and yet you know how much better one is then the other. Useless.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

djjohnr said:


> So you've never ridden a Darkside, and you haven't ridden the new EVO...and yet you know how much better one is then the other. Useless.


What he said. Responding to a question based on your hate for a manufacturer is wasting your time.


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## mtnbiker831 (Sep 19, 2011)

ThomasF said:


> yeah, because of the riders.


yup, riders on equipment that doesn't hold them back when a 10th of a second counts and matters a lot.


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## kinserk (May 31, 2013)

Sry but i have to dig this tread out of the grave. Found myself here, cuz i was looking for some user reviews of new enduro evo with 180 boxxer and all I found here was some useless Specialized hating. I ride Spitfire v2 for everything but DHruns aand is amazing bike, but now I'm in the market for new bike park bike and I am realy considering the EVO more then Darkside. I don't realy know why, maybe its beacuse i previously had Demo 8 and old enduro 2006 and they were both great bikes. Maybe i just like dual crown boxxer with 180 travel, it's realy great setup for my taste and dualcrown is just superior for bikepark riding, where u don't need single crown fork agility. So if there is anyone with some real enduro expert evo 650b experience, please do share your experience with me/us.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

Here's mine. The Dorado is at 203mm and I'm running a 26/26 setup. This gives a 47" wheelbase (medium frame) and 13.5" bb. This replaced my Yeti 303 RDH. I wanted a DH bike that has a climb friendly seatpost angle.

If you don't care about it being able to climb, the main decision point between the two is what kind of leverage ratio you're looking for. The EVO is relatively linear, which gives you a poppier back end assuming both bikes are setup to provide the same bottom out force. The Darkside is more progressive which will smooth out small/medium sized hits more.


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## kinserk (May 31, 2013)

WoW. Theres something different right there. So how does it differ from stock 27,5 and 180 fork at front? You didn't like the original setup? Why you have it set up like this?


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

djjohnr said:


> Here's mine. The Dorado is at 203mm and I'm running a 26/26 setup. This gives a 47" wheelbase (medium frame) and 13.5" bb. This replaced my Yeti 303 RDH. I wanted a DH bike that has a climb friendly seatpost angle.
> 
> If you don't care about it being able to climb, the main decision point between the two is what kind of leverage ratio you're looking for. The EVO is relatively linear, which gives you a poppier back end assuming both bikes are setup to provide the same bottom out force. The Darkside is more progressive which will smooth out small/medium sized hits more.


really nice ride! i am seriously thinkin about doing this exact thing. i started looking at demo build but this with 26s looks way more versatile w/o any drawbacks.

definitely curious what made you run 26s as well (it's what i wanna do) and what you think of the ride so far


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

This is my DH bike, so I have it setup for that specifically (it just happens to be climbable as well). 

I've tried the following:

180mm 27.5/27.5 stock setup

- Rides fine. Good for tighter trails. Most "AM" feeling configuration.

180mm 27.5/26

- BB height is lower then stock and HA is slacker. Rear is also easier to stuff into corners. Rides like a mini DH bike. 

203mm 26/26

- BB height is lower then stock and HA is slacker. Rides like a DH bike, but with a slightly firmer back end.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

53119 said:


> definitely curious what made you run 26s as well (it's what i wanna do) and what you think of the ride so far


I'm running 26s to keep the BB low with a 203mm fork. Also the 26" rear is easier to stuff into corners when riding the steeps.

I really like the ride so far. The rear is very fast and poppy. I have rear sag set at the recommended 30% right now, but I'm going to order some lighter springs and try going down to 35% for times when I want to soften it up. The geometry is great, it feels just like a DH bike setup like this.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

that is such great feedback. thnx! i've had enduro in the past and literally just set up a podium for dh cuz i like the similar fsr ratio of the knolly but a friend recently got your ride and has kept it 650b. very cool set up and quite honestly plenty of squish. really tempted to sell my podium and just move my parts over. 

i really like that the ohlins is tuned for the bike and has the narrow adjustment range. that's the way it should be! i think there spring rates come in 24-25lb increments as well so tweaking it should be really cool.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

damn. you're sellin me! i can see where 27.5/26r would be fun as hell in corners. it just makes sense that the 26 would follow the bigger wheel when instantly dumped into a line.

curious. what ha do you have w/26s?


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

Are you asking how the rear acts with 26s front and rear? Just like the 27.5/26 setup it's easier to stuff the rear into corners in the steeps. It's not a huge difference but it's there.


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## 53119 (Nov 7, 2008)

i hear ya. it makes sense. gotta look into gettin one i think. how do you like the ohlins compared to rs/fox/ccdb? thnx for the feedback!


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## Havinfun (Mar 18, 2015)

I just bought the Specialized and I love this bike. But, I see it more as a downhill bike than an Enduro.


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## djjohnr (Sep 9, 2013)

53119, the Ohlins is nice so far, however I'm going to hold off on final judgement until I have the spring rate dialed in. Right now I'm running a stiff spring/light damping setup and it's very controlled - it does a great job of keeping the rear glued but overall it's too stiff. I've tried a light spring setup with the stock Fox and it feels too loose in the back. I should have two Ohlins springs next week to do some more testing (one 25lbs lighter and the other 50lbs lighter). I was running a PUSH MX Tune on my Yeti 303R which is the primary shock I'll wind up comparing it to. I have time on Vivids and CCDBs but not on my own bikes, so a comparison would be pointless.


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