# Lightweight Rotors?



## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

What are the lightest rotors out there or a good combo of light/strong? I have G2 Cleansweeps right now (160/185) running on Avid Juicy 5s. I am going to convert to 160/160 and want some lightweight rotors that will work with the Juicy 5s. I like the bling of the Hope Floaters. Will they work?


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Scrub Components are the lightest I've found but the looks are an acquired taste. The new magnesium are going to be even lighter but I think they look better. Did I mention that they're Crazy expensive? $145 per for the standard rotors and I'm sure even more for the new ones.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

whats the lightest bang/buck rotor? by that i mean ~$50-75/pair 6-Bolt


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

The alligator serrated rotors are light and all steel, so stop well. Also the hope alloy centre rotors (from the mini X2 pro) are good too.


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## carbs79 (Sep 8, 2009)

Innolite rotors 160mm are 45g


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## roaringboy (Aug 26, 2009)

Not the best pic but Alligator Cirrus/Aries for me :


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## stylie (Jan 6, 2007)

that's a cool lookin' disc


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Avid Clean Sweep X (rotor from the XX group)... no idea on weight, but aluminum hub spider (so I assume lighter than Clean Sweep G3's), and decent price (compared with the likes of Scrub)...

https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=25401&category=15


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## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

formula rotors are pretty light - I'm considering some for my AM bike, saves 40-50g each over XT rotors if my info is correct (180mm).


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## tuonor (Sep 17, 2009)

Best bank for your buck is probably the alligator serrated from pricepoint for $15. I've heard the Formulas are better in terms of pad wear but have only used the alligators.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Ashima AiRotors! Alligator wind cutters can give pulsing issues, so I no longer use them.

I tested the Aries for a week out in California on some steep terrain, and they were pretty much useless, verging on scary. The Ashima AiRotors are monstrously powerful in comparison.


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## GiantMartin (Sep 12, 2007)

I use Ashima AiRotors 160mm

$25 a pop @ 83 g a piece. Hard to beat.


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## cooleymtnbiker1 (Jul 16, 2005)

For those of you running Ashima rotors...what pads are you using material wise and what retailer did you get them from?


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## roaringboy (Aug 26, 2009)

pastajet said:



> I tested the Aries for a week out in California on some steep terrain, and they were pretty much useless, verging on scary.


That's a strange one - i've been very impressed with the Aries rotors. Using them with Superstar Gold sintered pads and noticed a massive increase in braking power over the standard Hayes rotors. I swapped out the rear from 185mm to 160mm at the same time too, so i was actually expecting a bit of a drop in power due to this


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

I run Hope Pro 2 piece rotors and they were pretty cheap for the weight

77/66g for 160/140mm


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## kiatkiat (Sep 21, 2008)

Anyone know any lightweight centrelock rotors? I need a 140mm one


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## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

XTR in 140mm would be a good choice.


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## kcb8000 (May 23, 2007)

MI_canuck said:


> Avid Clean Sweep X (rotor from the XX group)... no idea on weight, but aluminum hub spider (so I assume lighter than Clean Sweep G3's), and decent price (compared with the likes of Scrub)...
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=25401&category=15


Those look really cool. If you find the weight on them let us know.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

MI_canuck said:


> Avid Clean Sweep X (rotor from the XX group)... no idea on weight, but aluminum hub spider (so I assume lighter than Clean Sweep G3's), and decent price (compared with the likes of Scrub)...


There was a report here that Sweep X 160mm was 97g compared with 104g for regular G3 it replaced.


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## kcb8000 (May 23, 2007)

Well, they sure do look a bit better than the older clean sweeps me thinks!


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## cooleymtnbiker1 (Jul 16, 2005)

anyone??


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## cooleymtnbiker1 (Jul 16, 2005)

cooleymtnbiker1 said:


> For those of you running Ashima rotors...what pads are you using material wise and what retailer did you get them from?


???


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## Baulz (Sep 16, 2005)

cooleymtnbiker1 said:


> ???


I use SwissStop pads.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

Anybody got a weight on the clean sweep g2? I've tried searching and can't find it anywhere. Don't have a scale to measure mine either.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

I dont have a pic, but the ones on my single speed are both 119.4g.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

amillmtb said:


> I dont have a pic, but the ones on my single speed are both 119.4g.


Thanks for the info.


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

What about Stans Aluminum rotors? Haven't heard any mention of them. Think I saw somewhere that the 160 weighs 58 grams. Anybody use them or heard good/bad things?


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

They were discontinued by Stan about a year ago. They were great, light, but not durable enough for every day riding (they would wear really fast if you rode them in wet conditions).


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## pbbullpup (Oct 17, 2006)

Any suggestions on a ultra light weight 185 centerlock rotor?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

pbbullpup said:


> Any suggestions on a ultra light weight 185 centerlock rotor?


Easy:
Centerlock = Shimano = NOT light ....and NOT 185.
That's a Avid size and you will need just a 180 adaper to run a 180 disc on your Avids.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

All weights of Avid XX brake component you'll find in this thread.


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

chuckie33 said:


> Anybody got a weight on the clean sweep g2? I've tried searching and can't find it anywhere. Don't have a scale to measure mine either.


Rotor Avid Clean Sweap G2 185mm 149g
Rotor Avid Clean Sweap G2 160mm 106g


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

*Carbon-Ti X-Rotor Full-Ti*

Carbon-Ti X-Rotor Full Titanium: 55 grams (160mm) and 45 grams (140mm).
Use w/ organic pads only.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

GiantMartin said:


> I use Ashima AiRotors 160mm
> 
> $25 a pop @ 83 g a piece. Hard to beat.


do u know where i can get these in the USA? I wand to use them with my Elixir 4's (aka Juicy 3's) upgrading over G3 clean sweep


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Curmy said:


> There was a report here that Sweep X 160mm was 97g compared with 104g for regular G3 it replaced.











*CleanSweep-X 140mm (84.8g) *









*CleanSweep-X 160mm (97.2g)*









*CleanSweep-X (6)Titanium fasteners (7g) *


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

louisssss said:


> do u know where i can get these in the USA? I wand to use them with my Elixir 4's (aka Juicy 3's) upgrading over G3 clean sweep


*http://torontocycles.com/*​


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## 2times (Jul 14, 2006)

Those are some sweet looking rotors! Any idea on price?


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

which is rotor is lighter, the alligator (http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/16...Disc/Alligator-Serration-Disc-Brake-Rotor.htm) or the Ashima rotors posted above this?

The Ashima's weigh 83g, the Alligator Serrated rotors weigh ___g
The better stopper between these two rotors are _____.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

2times said:


> Those are some sweet looking rotors! Any idea on price?


Retail price in Europe, about 200 euro each, VAT excluded.


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

mine 140 mm Alligator windcutter weighs 61g










mine 160 mm Ashima weighs 86 g










I used with sintered pads with the Juicy Carbon Brakes. Not so powerful as the G2 but powerful enough for my riding style.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I have cutted two discs in titanium, out to my testriders now, they weighed 65 grams in 160mm.

If it turns out they work and brake well so may I lay them on my homepage.


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## super jim (Nov 27, 2009)

Titanium nitride coated steel versions

http://www.alligatorcables.com/DISC/TI.htm

http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/17...0QB1.htm&zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=16&zmap=115


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## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

super jim said:


> http://www.alligatorcables.com/DISC/TI.htm


Just TI nitrite coated, not actually TI. They have the same weights as the regular steel rotors.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Why a such hefty price tag on Carbon-Ti titanium rotors...

They are a little more expensive to make than a stainless steel rotor....


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## 2times (Jul 14, 2006)

*Updates?*



Mattias_Hellöre said:


> I have cutted two discs in titanium, out to my testriders now, they weighed 65 grams in 160mm.
> 
> If it turns out they work and brake well so may I lay them on my homepage.


Mattias, keep us posted on the development of your rotors. I will need 2 new lightweight 6 bolt rotors real soon as I have a new wheelset coming shortly and would be interested in yours if all works well.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

anyone know the weight of the Avid G3 cleansweeps?


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## Cezex (Oct 16, 2009)

Avid Clean Sweap X 185mm 133g
Avid Clean Sweap X 160mm 96g


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Why a such hefty price tag on Carbon-Ti titanium rotors...
> 
> They are a little more expensive to make than a stainless steel rotor....


If you save a lot of money for research, laboratory tests, for expensive raw material and ceramic treatments and for taxes... you can certainly sell cheaper products.
But I think it is not the same...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Monticone: in this time Carbon-Ti is adding markup just because they can.
Carbon-Ti stands for exclusivity by the high price tag.

That´s a excellent business strategy really.

The delevopment of a brake disc is not hard at all and titanium is not SO expensive when water jet cutted.

I do develop my own discs, I´ve made some discs but have to hear for test reports.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Monticone: in this time Carbon-Ti is adding markup just because they can.
> Carbon-Ti stands for exclusivity by the high price tag.
> That´s a excellent business strategy really.
> The delevopment of a brake disc is not hard at all and titanium is not SO expensive when water jet cutted.
> I do develop my own discs, I´ve made some discs but have to hear for test reports.


Just to clarify Carbon-Ti rotors aren't only water cutted.
This is not enough, titanium rotors without special coating and other surface treatments do not work so well.

Anyway good luck.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*I have...*

an older Carbon-Ti titanium rotor, with the gold coating. In only around 30 hours of riding time the coating was worn down to bare titanium in spots on the rotor (organic pads used). If the extra expense is said to be due to the coating, I'm not sure it's worth it.
Are there any thermal engineers out there? I used to work with some in electronics, and they can tell us the heat dissipation characteristics of different materials. I would love to hear a comparison of the heat dissipation of: Titanium vs. Aluminum vs. MMC vs. Steel. Different metals definitely dissipate heat differently.
I do not really believe in the value of rotor coatings, they all seem to wear off pretty quickly.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

barrows said:


> an older Carbon-Ti titanium rotor, with the gold coating. In only around 30 hours of riding time the coating was worn down to bare titanium in spots on the rotor (organic pads used). If the extra expense is said to be due to the coating, I'm not sure it's worth it.
> Are there any thermal engineers out there? I used to work with some in electronics, and they can tell us the heat dissipation characteristics of different materials. I would love to hear a comparison of the heat dissipation of: Titanium vs. Aluminum vs. MMC vs. Steel. Different metals definitely dissipate heat differently.
> I do not really believe in the value of rotor coatings, they all seem to wear off pretty quickly.


The coating and the design of new rotors are upgraded.
I use my "old" Carbon-Ti Full-Ti rotors since two seasons (several thousand kilometers) without excessive wear. Obviously in case of extreme mud conditions I replace my lightest wheelset with other with steel rotors.
We should compare this products with others with the same weight and not with steel discs that weigh twice of them.
I do not think aluminum or MMX rotors are much more durable and give more performance.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*Monticone...*

I have the same rotor in your picture. Riding only dry conditions in Colorado, with resin pads, the rotor coating was starting to wear off in places to bare titanium after only about 30 hours of riding time. So far I have ridden Scrub MMC rotors in the same conditions for an entire season of riding.
The CarbonTi rotor is almost double the cost of the Scrub MMC, and the Scrub rotor is lighter. The CarbonTi rotor continues to work OK, but the quick wear of the coating seems ridiculous considering the high price. 
Are you suggesting that CarbonTi has a new coating that does not wear?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Why should anyone swap rotors just because they are too expensive to wear on in muddy conditions?

My idea is to get a affordable and light rotors.


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

hmm dont think i've gotten a reply, does anyone know the weight of 160g Avid G3 Cleansweep Rotors? I'd like to know the weights before upgrading.

New Rotors will accompany Elixir 4's (aka Juicy 3's?)


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

barrows said:


> I have the same rotor in your picture. Riding only dry conditions in Colorado, with resin pads, the rotor coating was starting to wear off in places to bare titanium after only about 30 hours of riding time. So far I have ridden Scrub MMC rotors in the same conditions for an entire season of riding.
> The CarbonTi rotor is almost double the cost of the Scrub MMC, and the Scrub rotor is lighter. The CarbonTi rotor continues to work OK, but the quick wear of the coating seems ridiculous considering the high price.
> Are you suggesting that CarbonTi has a new coating that does not wear?


The wear if my old-model rotors in dry conditions seems be very very low (swissstop pads), in the mud is much faster: anyway organic pads with extreme condition isn't never a good idea, so I change the wheelset.

About 2010 version, the new coating seems be better and especially the shape allows a more regular and progressive wearing (and braking).

About scrub, a my friend last summer had a serious problem of deformation with Scrub rotors at the end of a very long and fast downhill of a marathon race, so I have never taken in consideration.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*Hmm?*



Monticone said:


> The wear if my old-model rotors in dry conditions seems be very very low (swissstop pads), in the mud is much faster: anyway organic pads with extreme condition isn't never a good idea, so I change the wheelset.
> 
> About 2010 version, the new coating seems be better and especially the shape allows a more regular and progressive wearing (and braking).
> 
> About scrub, a my friend last summer had a serious problem of deformation with Scrub rotors at the end of a very long and fast downhill of a marathon race, so I have never taken in consideration.


Could you describe this deformation? Scrub rotors have been on the podium in many endurance races in the US, and I personally have had no problems with them (I run the 160s front and rear, I do not believe in smaller rotors because they just do not do well on long descents). I am in Colorado, and my brakes are subject to long steep descents quite regularly. The only time I do not run them is if conditions are going to be very wet, but here I do not often ride in wet conditions, the weather is usually really good.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

louisssss said:


> hmm dont think i've gotten a reply, does anyone know the weight of 160g Avid G3 Cleansweep Rotors? I'd like to know the weights before upgrading.






louisssss said:


> New Rotors will accompany Elixir 4's (aka Juicy 3's?)


I would guess the G3's.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

Mattias: Sounds great! I know that those in Europe/Scandinavia may not understand, but here in the Rocky Mountains, conditions are generally dry: I might have only one or two wetter rides in an entire season, so switching to steel rotors for those rides is no big deal.
Of course, if you can build sub 60 gram 160 mm rotors in titanium that perform as well as steel in both dry and wet conditions, then those would be great and I would love to get some from you.
My experience with the (extremely expensive) CarbonTi rotors was not that good, the older versions are not comparable in performance to Scrubs MMC rotors for power and modulation.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

barrows said:


> Could you describe this deformation? Scrub rotors have been on the podium in many endurance races in the US, and I personally have had no problems with them (I run the 160s front and rear, I do not believe in smaller rotors because they just do not do well on long descents). I am in Colorado, and my brakes are subject to long steep descents quite regularly. The only time I do not run them is if conditions are going to be very wet, but here I do not often ride in wet conditions, the weather is usually really good.


I have nothing against scrub, I have nothing against these rotors, I just reported the last summer experience of a my friend after a 10 km downhill. He has warped the rotor and found the wheel locked (using koolstop pads). Could be just his defective rotor.
I'm sure that now work well.

Even the old model Carbon-Ti has been used by several pro riders like Sauser, Overend, Naef ...


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## GiantMartin (Sep 12, 2007)

Either www.torontocycles.com, www.pricepoint.com and www.chainreactioncycles.com have them sometimes.


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## hasan.cagri (Jul 27, 2008)

Alligator Cırrus 160mm for front (76-79g), windcutter 140mm (62-64g) for rear with Hope mono brakes... I was happy with alligator tinit coated windcutters... 

But this time i didn't buy coated ones...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Prototype discs, made six to various riders and to me.

64 grams for 160mm.
Uncoated 2.0mm thick titanium.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

Nice work Mattias, as usual these look really nice. Please keep us informed on how these rotors do in your testing.


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## kiatkiat (Sep 21, 2008)

Nice work. But do we need special pad to work with titanium rotors?


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## TimT (Jan 1, 2004)

Hey Mattis when do you think those will be ready for sale. You going to make them in 140mm?

Tim


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Standard pads should work fine or I will redesign that.
140 160 180 185 200mm discs will be available when the design is good and no catastrophic failure can happen.


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

I have standard XTR M07 resin pads. Will those pads get eaten up by Alligator Wind Cutters?
Do I needs a special pad?
Thanks.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

I'm running XTR with the Wind Cutters.The resin pads don't get eaten up, but stopping power is so so.Run EBC gold pads to improve stopping power,although heavy @ 21 grams each set.Don't waste your time trying to find EBC gold pads for XTR in North America, you won't find them even though lots of shops list them.Had a couple of dealers trying to get me some for 6 months - nothing.Just order some up from any mail order shop in England, they will be on your door step in about 1 week.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Look on Ebay for Gatorbrake 160mm rotors. $24.95 a rotor and 76g for 160mm.


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## egebhardt (Nov 16, 2004)

I just bought 2 Aligator Wind Cutters (160mm and 140mm) for $42 on Ebay. They are coming from China, so it could take a month.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Any news on your new rotors Mattias?


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## kersh13 (Sep 13, 2007)

I ran the Alligator serration rotors 160 f&r coming from Clean sweep G2's 185 f and 160 r. I was using my Juicy 5's and was having pulsating issues with the G2's. The alligators had better braking power and were much lighter and were smoother by far. They get my vote!


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## jonw9 (Jun 29, 2009)

barrows said:


> I would love to hear a comparison of the heat dissipation of: Titanium vs. Aluminum vs. MMC vs. Steel. Different metals definitely dissipate heat differently.
> I do not really believe in the value of rotor coatings, they all seem to wear off pretty quickly.


I am sure there is more to the calculation, but this would probably help for identical rotors made from different materials (at the same temp, etc.).

Thermal conductivity:
Titanium (Ti-6Al-4V, grade 5) = 6.70 W/m-K	
Aluminum (6061-O) = 180 W/m-K
MMC (forged plate) = 150 W/m-K
Steel (304SS) = 16.2 W/m-K

Specific materials randomly chosen, as I don't really know what the rotors are typically made of.

So, steel is an order of magnitude better than Ti, and Al/MMC are another order above that.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I did a lighter 140mm disc at 45 grams in titanium, sent to a testrider - the verdict is excessive howling and poor braking performance.
At least it held up fine, back to drawing board.
The bigger 160mm which I shown on a scale at approx 65 grams is working well, needs more testing.
Three testriders test the 160mm right now.

Exciting to know the result and suggestions to improvement.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

i've worn out a set of Stans NoTubes coated alloy rotors while training + trail riding - they are/were really only a race day only product but came with a ltd edition of magura Marta's so were used daily for approx 800 miles without any probs stopping

currently using Scrub MMX rotors but they can be noisey - so looking forward to the latest version of Scrubs out soon with stiffer/lighter magnesium spiders

pics
1. 160mm Stans NoTubes (unused/2nd generation)
2. 160mm Scrub MMX (after 500 miles)


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## diver160651 (Jun 18, 2007)

I have 2 160 scrubs black center -- mounted them spun the wheels on the stand then took them off -- paid about 290.00 for the set -- first 200.00 takes them -- I am running r1s -- they have a tiny pad opening -- I deiced that I could afford to do all my wheel sets and didn't want to re-adjust the calipers every time I changed between different wheel sets


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

really?

when i change wheels i re-set the calipers after swapping out the brake pads dedicated for the Scrubs, i've put alot of time + money in my bike so don't mind spending 5 mins on it (that's all it takes)


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

jonw9 said:


> Titanium (Ti-6Al-4V, grade 5) = 6.70 W/m-K
> Steel (304SS) = 16.2 W/m-K
> 
> So, steel is an order of magnitude better than Ti


"Order of magnitude" usually means by a factor of three or more.. Does not quite make it here.


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

Mattias, have you tried making some rotors with only 3 bolt holes? I'm almost embarrassed to admit I run 3 bolts on my rotors, but I've never had problems. I'm just wondering how much weight from the rotor itself could be saved if designed around 3 bolts.


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## WeatherMan (Sep 22, 2008)

XX 185 rotor came in at 134 for me.


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## IM31408 (Dec 24, 2008)

88 rex said:


> Mattias, have you tried making some rotors with only 3 bolt holes? I'm almost embarrassed to admit I run 3 bolts on my rotors, but I've never had problems. I'm just wondering how much weight from the rotor itself could be saved if designed around 3 bolts.


I do the same thing and that is quite an interesting idea. Wonder if it would offer a significant savings or just a minimal savings.


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## CactusJackSlade (Apr 11, 2006)

*New SCRUB rotors*

like this? 

Interbike prototype last Sept...


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## evil zlayo (Apr 22, 2007)

interesting steel lightweight supercheap rotors...

mucky nutz muck chucker
140mm - 63g
160mm - 73g
180mm - 118g
200mm - 144g









mucky nutz northern star
140mm - 60g
160mm - 70g
180mm - 112g
200mm - 133g









msc
140mm - 67g
160mm - 80g


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Formula Floating Rotors...

160 MM










180 MM


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

where did you get this formula 180mm??? want one!!


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

like it??
my new design:]

Matias in which format i can send you a file to plot it or count what is the weight?
i'm almost sure it will be below 65g for 160mm


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

Whats the best pads to be used with Juicy 3 calipers & KCNC AiRotors?


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## The_Boy (Sep 15, 2005)

Just got my Ashima rotors off Ebay. 

Ashima 180mm/160mm = 180g
Avid G3? (They came on my Elixr CR Mags) 185mm/160mm = 260g

That's $40 for 80g savings.


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## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

Regular non floating formula rotor weights, 123 for 180mm front, 110 for 180mm rear. Rear is a little thinner than the front, I think its 1.7mm vs 1.9mm.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

tehan said:


> like it??
> my new design:]
> 
> Matias in which format i can send you a file to plot it or count what is the weight?
> i'm almost sure it will be below 65g for 160mm


mattias @ hellore.se preferrably it´s DWG or IGES, STEP if 3D.
I run solidworks 2009 sp0.

I cancalculate weight fairly accurate if I know the thickness and material.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

@ tehan

I got it off ebay, seller cloud69.


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

the non floating formula R1 160 mm rotors also weights 87 g. 

I already bought the mucky nutz muck chucker 160mm - 73g to test with the R1 brakes.


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## Bigmech (Feb 23, 2010)

hygia brake discs are pretty light from what i have seen and at a great price!


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

tehan said:


> where did you get this formula 180mm??? want one!!


Ebay and Speedgoat.com are good places to get formula stuff. Also, tree fort bikes.com is good for prices on formula. I dont recall if they have the 180 floating rotor though


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

after spending few hours in corel i made new one. Think will be even lighter.

Mattias gave me response that it should be 53g in 2mm thisc titanium 160mm. Anybody interested? will do 140mm also.


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## roaringboy (Aug 26, 2009)

180mm Alligator Cirrus/Aries:










and a 160mm:


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## chuckie33 (Oct 2, 2008)

CactusJackSlade said:


> like this?
> 
> Interbike prototype last Sept...


I'm really liking the target weight and the bling of these rotors. They are on the website now but just says coming soon. In particular I'm liking the AM version. Wonder if it will really be an AM rotor? Any idea when these might actually be available?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Mucky Nutz "Muck Chuckers"*

Mucky Nutz "Muck Chuckers" arrived

3x 160mm were all 73g & the 1x 180mm was 115g (3g under)


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## evil zlayo (Apr 22, 2007)

eagerly awaiting your reviews!

probably they are just fine, but what about pulsing? i got rid of alligators just because of it.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

yep! Me to waiting for reviews. They are about 17g heavier than scrubs at 160mm, and cost 10 times less. awesome


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

WOW, they look great !

How thick are they ?
What brakes are you going to use them with ?


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

I already have one of the Muck Chuckers 160 mm. Mine weighted 75g.

I did a small test with the R1 in front and the stopping power was not to great. Inferior to my Ashima. Also they have a width of 1,45 mm and the ashima of 1,95 mm


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

the 73g stainless steel Chuckers seem hard to beat in 160mm format - very pleased with them (also no VAT + very reasonable & speedy International Postage)

the rotor spiders are currently being coated with high temp flat black ceramic so won't be able to fully test them till the weekend (i like to customize componants + ceramic coating only adds about 1-2g and helps rotors cool better)

going to try the 160/160mm rotors with Marta SL + SwissStop pads, and use the 180/160 with R1's + SwissStop pads

the 180mm "Muck Chucker" appears to be approx 2mm width and the 160's width approx 1.8mm, one thing i forgot to ask Shane was the rotor widths - if you place and order please ask & post the info here

rotor performance always improves once they have bedded-in - so mariosimas small test cannot be called conclusive!


----------



## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> and the 160's width approx 1.5mm


Do they use good steel? 1.5 seems kinda thin - would not they bend by a whiff of wind?


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

sorry, just have a silly little metal ruler - no calipers here (yet)

just re-measured seems closer to 1.8-1.9 - morning coffee is only just kicking in so still in clutzoid mode

from the mucky website: "They have undergone FEA, CFD and rigorous testing, as part of their development and are superior in strength, hardness and precision to your conventional rotor, as these are laser cut from motorcycle grade stainless and have a double grind finish."

the 160mm seem to be around the same width as MMX Scrubs and the 180's the same as stainless steel magura rotors

i wouldn't recommend "Muck Chuckers"

.........edit to remove link and trim final sentence....................


----------



## Matte X.0 (Oct 4, 2008)

Muck chuckers 160+140mm arrived at home today! They weight respectively 73 and 63g, my mechanic says that they are pretty thin despite to alligator discs and pretty "flexy".
On saturday morning the first test! :thumbsup:


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

1st post! - welcome to Weight Weenies Matte X.0

...can your mechanic accurately measure the width of your 140/160mm Chuckers?


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*160mm Muck Chuckers*

having a slight problem mounting the thin 160mm "Chuckers" on a DT 1450 wheelset with centrelock adapters: DT Swiss + Alligator CL's wouldn't clamp down enough to keep the rotor from rotating slightly - only vintage superheavyweight (49g) magura centrelock adapters clamped down far enough - easily cancelling out any weight advantage the rotors have...

actually bought 2x 160's for a wheelset with 6 bolt Mavic hubs so its not a biggie for me

the wider 180mm Chucker rotor works fine with DT Swiss/regular centrelock adapters

...will have another go and update


----------



## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> 1st post! - welcome to Weight Weenies Matte X.0
> 
> ...can your mechanic accurately measure the width of your 140/160mm Chuckers?


have you read my post:

"Also they have a width of 1,45 mm and the ashima of 1,95 mm"

Mechanic measured


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

mariosimas said:


> Mechanic measured


yes i read your post.

there's an established width difference for the Chuckers in 160 & 180mm - trying to find out if the 140mm are the same width - do you know?

how did your Mechanic mount your 160mm rotors? (CL or 6 bolt)


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Mucky Nutz "Muck Chucker" - custom flat black ceramic spider*

managed to mount the 160mm "Chucker" rotor with standard 30g DT Swiss Centrelock adapter by using a magura spacer between the rotor a centrelock adapter underneath (you can just see it in post #109) - so had to re-set the caliper.

still need to clean up some tape remnants with white spirits - but at least the flat black ceramic didn't add any weight to the rotors

testing them tomorrow on a 35 mile ride:thumbsup:


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## 3Ronin (Feb 4, 2010)

https://cgi.ebay.com/New-Disc-Rotor...Accessories?hash=item1e5a9dd8fd#ht_5619wt_939








*i went with those, you really cant beat them for $20 per rotor at 84grams for a 160mm rotor. AND they come with mounting bolts*


----------



## Matte X.0 (Oct 4, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> 1st post! - welcome to Weight Weenies Matte X.0
> 
> ...can your mechanic accurately measure the width of your 140/160mm Chuckers?


Thank you very much! 

Next days first impressions about these discs!


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## The_Boy (Sep 15, 2005)

3Ronin said:


> *i went with those, you really cant beat them for $20 per rotor at 84grams for a 160mm rotor. AND they come with titanium mounting bolts*


It says "Including 6 pcs of light weight and high quality screws". At this price, they most definitely are not titanium.


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## 3Ronin (Feb 4, 2010)

you are correct, i dont even know why i wrote that haha....too much titanium on my mind. A friend works for a large airline company and i am fortunate enough to get lots and lots of titanium bolts in all different sizes for free when they have parts they are going to throw away.


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> yes i read your post.
> 
> there's an established width difference for the Chuckers in 160 & 180mm - trying to find out if the 140mm are the same width - do you know?
> 
> how did your Mechanic mount your 160mm rotors? (CL or 6 bolt)


i dont know the width of the 140 mm because i bought only the 160 mm.

I´m using the aligator windcutter 140 on the rear. Mine weights 61 g


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Muck Chucker - AKA Rider Chuckers*



evil zlayo said:


> eagerly awaiting your reviews!
> 
> probably they are just fine, but what about pulsing? i got rid of alligators just because of it.


very good point.

just been on a testride that i had to cut short because of these "Muck Chuckers" extreme ABS/pulsating that wouldn't abate even though they should have bedded-in during a hilly 20 mile ride

160/160 rotors with an 07 magura Marta SL brakeset smooth skid free braking is impossible - even pulling up to traffic lights on tarmac is dangerous with brakes on then off then on again - argh!

>>>>>>>>DO NOT BUY MUCK CHUCKER ROTORS!<<<<<<<<

.............edit, one week later............

oops, might have been premature with the above rant (sorry)

on another bike kitted with 09 magura Marta's the pulsating was much less dramatic, more annoying than dangerous - 2mm wide 180mm "Muck Chucker" + the 1.5mm 160mm with magura rotor shim worked okay

so will be re-testing the 160mm "Chuckers" again with the rotors reversed this time


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## loggerhead (Mar 8, 2009)

i remember an old issue of mba that had a amp carbon disc brake rotor. not sure if this ever came out. probably a prototype i guess as i never seen another carbon rotor.


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> very good point.
> 
> just been on a testride that i had to cut short because of these "Muck Chuckers" extreme ABS/pulsating that wouldn't abate even though they should have bedded-in during a hilly 20 mile ride
> 
> ...


I´ve had the same feeling with this rotors. DON´T BUY THIS ROTORS.

Going back to Ashima´s Air Rotor


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I am having a problem with all my Alligator Rotors. I purchased 3 160mm * & 1 180mm I used Formula Oro Puro Brakes and I used the Saw Cut model. None of the rotors wuld stay true for me. I am a heavier rider @ 225 with gear. Could this be the problem? But even on my XC bike with flat single track the 160's warped. It was kind of depressing. Anyone else experience this problem?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Innolite & Formula R1 160mm rotors*

thought i'd update this thread with a couple of recent(ish) acquisitions

160mm Innolite - manufacturers claimed weight 45.4g - 2 weigh 48g

160mm Formula R1 1-piece rotor - manufacturers claimed weight 87g

...the Formula rotor has high temp flat black ceramic on the spider, it doesn't do that much in the way of heat management (or add any significant weight) - i simply prefer the look of rotors with black spiders

best


----------



## Ausable (Jan 7, 2006)

culturesponge said:


> from the mucky website: "(....) these are laser cut from motorcycle grade stainless (...)"
> .


I didn't know that the motorcycle industry used a proprietary stainless steel alloy. But maybe it's just a typo, the correct sentence would sound like:

these are laser cut from *aerospace *grade stainless


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Looks great....did you do that yourself ?

How do the Formula 1-piece rotors compare to the "Muck Chucker" (both 160mm) ?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

thanks, they look better now the excess has worn off (or is smeared on the brake pads) 

if you paint your rotors, try not to slap it on too thickly, especially at the mount holes as it might affect rotor alignment ect blah (had to say just incase...)

i don't want to diss anyone's rotors (anymore) in retrospect i think the 160mm "Muck Chucker" rotor braking track was incompatible with the old version magura Marta brakes - but they probably work okay with other brakes e.g Shimano or Avid

been using those 160mm Formula's on the bike with the vintage Marta's (touch wood) braking is A1 - totally squeell & ABS free + excellent pad bite - so far so good.


----------



## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

I just mounted up Ashima 180 Rotors F&R to my R1 brakes. Working great so far. The rotors weighed 107g apiece. Comparatively I was running Alligator saw-tooth 160mm rotors. The Ashima's are only 10g heavier than the 160's


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## 3Ronin (Feb 4, 2010)

what are those Innolites made of that they are so light?


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

From the innolite website:

Innolites Disc brake Rotors are made of aluminium, coated with ceram that are more wear resistant than normal brake pads against stainless steel discs. The Discs are avialable in the sizes 140 and 160 mm. Weight for respective Disc is 36g and 45,4g. Beside that the Discs itselves are lite which decreases the weiht of the bike, it also minimizes rotational weight and also unfeathered weight. When lowering rotational weight, the wheel (and of course the hole bike)becomes more faster in acceleration and during braking. The Discs are designed for drivers with weight under 80 kg.
Competition use only.


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Culturesponge, what kind off paint did you use ?

How about those innolites ?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*alloy rotors - lighter of wallet + lighter than stainless steel*

the Innolites are for a Podium MMX wheelbuild, trying to make up for using tuned DT 240s rather than the ususal 190's

i think perhaps the alloy used for the Innolite rotors might be the result of low sales for the SAAB Gripen multi roll jet fighter? - aerospace tech alloys make much better bicycle components than war machines :thumbsup:

alloy rotors might look like suicide banzai kamikaze rotors to the uninitiated, but once a fresh set of organic brake pads starts building up a layer on the braking track on the coated rotor they are almost a good at stopping as Stainless Steel @ 2x the rotational weight

the very similar Scrubs we have both been using almost every other day since Jan 09 have really neglible wear compared to the SS magura rotors that were bolted on before - the innitial hefty cost is rewarded by superlight rotors that don't appear to wear out! (at least here in SoCal)

...only tricky thing is to centre calipers exactly so the slightly more delicate alloy rotors don't warp or bend - then they can become shrieky and annoying

pic shows brand new Scrub rotor (inset) then 9 months later with organic pad build up


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## eric512 (Jan 27, 2006)

I have the Chuckers 140mm. Measure 1.45mm in my digital calipers. Could not get them to mount correctly on my Stans ZTR hubs. Always warped when I mounted them, possibly due to the way the rotor holes line up on the hub flange. 

Very limited riding impression with the Chuckers - just like the saw tooth rotor from Alligator. ABS type pulsing. Had them in the rear only for 10 miles.

Measured new Formula R1 1-piece 160mm = 1.85mm, also Alligator saw 160mm = 1.85mm. 

I have the Alligator 160 on the rear with new Avid Elixir CR Mag + their Organic/Metalic pads. Still have the ABS pulsing - but lots of power and not squealing. I had tried these rotors in the front, but could not stand the pulsing. This is on 3 different bikes/forks/brakes.

I have the Formula R1 160 on the front. Seems to have good power, a little bit of grinding feel, but the new Elixirs seem to have AMAZING power though. Haven't compared a Avid rotor yet on the same brakes.

Waiting for a Avid G3 140 to compare.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Formula 180mm rotors*

just to compare here are the current Formula 180mm rotors

1-Piece (solid) rotor has claimed weight of 121g (2 were 124 &125g)

180mm floating (al. carrier) rotor has 110g claimed (2 are 108 & 109g)

...the black spider rotor is from clood69 on ebay Italy, alas no more 160mm black spider rotors available.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

Swapped 160 Alligator for a 160mm Formula (IIRC it was 86.2g with thickness from 1.75 to 1.77 mm). Formula's are much better. No pulsing. Alligator was OK in the rear, but I could not completely tune out pulsing in front - on three different bikes with Shimano XT, Avid Ultimates and Avid BB7 brakes) So from now on my light rotor choice is Formula. For heavy duty will keep SM-RT75 Shimano's - but need to try if RT-76 two-piece is any better in 203mm.. G2 and G3 - not a fan. Magura's, fine, but.. nah.. Hope - did not try much.. Alligator - ok in the rear for me..


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## IAmtnbikr (May 17, 2008)

Gave up on the Alligators a whle back. After some time they gave a nasty pulse up front with Marta's. Put the original Marta rotors back on... end of brake pulse. Finally figured out that a few grams here and there are worth it if you get a better ride out of it.


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## evil zlayo (Apr 22, 2007)

threw my alligators out the window.

using airotors 160/140. much better. although they too have a slight pulse, it's almost unnoticeable.


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## spunkmtb (Jun 22, 2009)

My alligators gave me endless headaches. They are now on my girlfreinds bike and are working flawlessly. Lightweight rotors for a lightweight girl. I am loving my Ashima's currently.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

eric512 said:


> I have the Chuckers 140mm. Measure 1.45mm in my digital calipers. Could not get them to mount correctly on my Stans ZTR hubs. Always warped when I mounted them, possibly due to the way the rotor holes line up on the hub flange.
> 
> Very limited riding impression with the Chuckers - just like the saw tooth rotor from Alligator. ABS type pulsing. Had them in the rear only for 10 miles.
> 
> ...


great post:thumbsup:


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Culturesponge.....I see you have been using lots off rotors, which ones you like best with the R1's ?

I have been using that black 180 floating Formula rotor aswell, but I don't like it.
To much flex in the rivets.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

argh, i bet mine are going to be just the same (unhappy face emoticon here)

haven't mounted up those floating Formula rotors yet, was hoping that they would be okay @ 15g less than the solid rotors - they are for an XC wheelset that had superheavyweight 2mm thick 155g magura 180mm rotors with vent holes upfront for mountain adventures ...perhaps as long as they don't get used that much the rivets might be okay (hopes)

...but was reading today on dan dan.gerous blog how he loathes those Formula floating rotors also

best to date are 180/160 Scrubs with SwissStop pads - no fade, masses of braking power, no noise, no rub - even with R1's:thumbsup:

clocked about 100 miles with those innolites 160/160 with R1's trailriding/training, getting better all the time but abit noisey under hard braking but just as expected on centrelock hubs - they will be alot quieter on the 6-bolt wheelset they were purchased for

best + be safe with those weenie rotors peeps

............edit..........

rode for a few miles now with the 180/160 scrubs back onboard

my front 180mm has a very slight rub due to its wobbly shape but hers doesn't, both rear 160mm rotors don't rub. mine are silent even under hard braking hers sometimes squeal when its hot & dusty


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Thx !

The 160 mm floating formula rotors don't have the same problem, its only with the 180 mm.
At least, not mine !

Where did you get those scrub rotors ?


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

how crucial is it to torque rotors to the exact spec? i dont have a torque wrench...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

louisssss said:


> how crucial is it to torque rotors to the exact spec? i dont have a torque wrench...


You will be just fine. Use some blue loctite.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

blue loctite on the lockring threads is a great idea

lockrings don't tighten up as well when they've been on/off the bike a few times. had a front lockring loosen to fingertight in a just few rides the other week (it was alligator brand) - i was lucky it was just a leasurely ride with mrs culturesponge


.....................


our Scrub rotors were directly from Chris at Scrub. a very expensive purchase - but they still look to have virtually no wear on them 16 month later - so now keeping an eye out for metal fatigue!

i messed up the install on one rear Scrub 160mm rotor & put dozens of bends in it try to correct one bend (centering IS calipers with shims can be tricky) Chris was nice enough to exchange the rotor for another gratis

not sure i'd fork out even more dosh for the new Scrub Lug Drive - often the simplist designs are the best


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## louisssss (Jun 24, 2009)

so just tighten the 6 bolts of the rotor onto the hub with loctite in a star pattern and i should be fine?


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

louisssss said:


> star pattern and i should be fine?


Thats what it says, I would assume that an "alternating" pattern means that they want star formation. Installing anything with bolts its a must that you use a Torque wrench. I think Scrub says either 50 or 55 In-lbs (6-6.2Nm). Hope this helps:

http://www.scrubcomponents.com/Scrub Components - Tech Manual v1.pdf


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

louisssss said:


> so just tighten the 6 bolts of the rotor onto the hub with loctite in a star pattern and i should be fine?


I usually mount the wheel right after mounting a rotor, adjust the brakes properly and pull on them firmly - then check and tighten the bolts - loctite is not set yet, takes it a few hours.. Do not remember ever having to adjust or tighten then back after that.


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## Whistgnar (Jan 24, 2010)

MI_canuck said:


> Avid Clean Sweep X (rotor from the XX group)... no idea on weight, but aluminum hub spider (so I assume lighter than Clean Sweep G3's), and decent price (compared with the likes of Scrub)...
> 
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=25401&category=15


Just picked some up, came with ti bolts and they fell superb. and only 5$ more than the normal clean sweeps.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*79g Hope Race-Edition X2 160mm floating rotor*

2 of these beauties arrived today from r2-bike to use with black Formula floating 180mm rotors upfront + R1's

X2 rotors are just 1.6mm thick - so perhaps the float is a good thing

weight is good too @ 79g(ish) and the other 80g(ish) - the 140mm version is apparently just 64g

best


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## kcb8000 (May 23, 2007)

Those look really good!


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i had order new scrub rotor with lug technology 

hope to have them around 15-20 june


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## lowr1d3r (Mar 5, 2009)

I am interested on the Alligator wind cutter rotors for replace my Avid G3. They will be for a set of Avid Juicy 7 on 203/185 mm. Does the change worth it? It´s better choose a set of Ashima Aro 08?

I am afraid of loose too much brake power


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

lowr1d3r said:


> I am interested on the Alligator wind cutter rotors for replace my Avid G3. They will be for a set of Avid Juicy 7 on 203/185 mm. Does the change worth it? It´s better choose a set of Ashima Aro 08?
> 
> I am afraid of loose too much brake power


you want lighter rotors but your brakes still need to work just as well - i can relate to that! :thumbsup:

from the info on this thread, best "bang for buck" aftermarket rotor seems to be the Ashima Ai - masses lighter than a standard rotor + without any loss of power or ABS (shuddery stops) that you'll get with windcutters

they are just $25 each here: http://www.torontocycles.com/Selling/Rotors.html (here as Ashima ARO-08 Rotors)

or try this link: http://www.google.com/products?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&q=Ashima+AiRotor&scoring=p

good luck


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

eliflap said:


> i had order new scrub rotor with lug technology
> 
> hope to have them around 15-20 june


yep, ordered a pair too.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

We still don't have a final product picture and you already gave them money?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

eliflap said:


> i had order new scrub rotor with lug technology
> 
> hope to have them around 15-20 june





jbsteven said:


> yep, ordered a pair too.


please post pics (on scales) when you get them:thumbsup:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...-handmade-bicycle-show-2010-part-seven/109870

pic 1. scrub components showed off this ultralight rotor with a metal matrix brake track and magnesium carrier. Claimed weight for a 160mm size is around 50g. Photo: © James Huang

pic 2. Scrub Components' new LugDrive design makes for a stiffer and lighter rotor but also one that's better able to deal with heat expansion.Photo: © James Huang


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Looks nice, but I guess the mag spider touches nearly every caliper out there.
May I am mistaken.


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## lowr1d3r (Mar 5, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> you want lighter rotors but your brakes still need to work just as well - i can relate to that! :thumbsup:
> 
> from the info on this thread, best "bang for buck" aftermarket rotor seems to be the Ashima Ai - masses lighter than a standard rotor + without any loss of power or ABS (shuddery stops) that you'll get with windcutters
> 
> ...


Thanks culturesponge. I was a little bit confused because I have ridden all kind of opinion about them in other forums. So, for my bitrthday i will buy them


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

culturesponge said:


> please post pics (on scales) when you get them:thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...-handmade-bicycle-show-2010-part-seven/109870
> 
> ...


Cheers for the pic's. First time I've seen real pic's of the rotors.
I've order my set too, white with green rims from Chris. Looking forward to them:thumbsup:


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## Jhanney (Apr 9, 2008)

just managed to get 2 mucky rotors. A 180 northern start and 160mm Mucky nuts mud chucker rotor. 
the 160mm weighed in at 61g.
The 180mm weighed in at 125g


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## gsxunv04 (May 10, 2010)

Anyone know where to buy the Alligator Aries Ti rotors? Looking for a pair of 160mm's.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*Scrub RaceDay*



eliflap said:


> i had order new scrub rotor with lug technology
> 
> hope to have them around 15-20 june


its June 29th already - did they arrive yet? ....any pics? ...hows about a ride report?

http://www.scrubcomponents.com/html/scrub_components_-_the_raceday.html

"UPDATE: RaceDay rotors are finally in limited production! Pre-order now for delivery no later than June 15, 2010."


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

no ... still waiting 

they mailed me , nice communication ...but a little delay


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Curmy said:


> "Order of magnitude" usually means by a factor of three or more.. Does not quite make it here.




Order of magnitude actually refers to factors of 10 usually. (Moving the decimal point over one place or one significant digit effected by a variation).


----------



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Order of magnitude logarithmically would be a factor of 3.16


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

3.16 is the square root of 10, and is the middle of the range of an order of magnitude.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

smilinsteve said:


> Order of magnitude actually refers to factors of 10 usually. (Moving the decimal point over one place or one significant digit effected by a variation).


A bit on an inside joke from my previous life in experimental physics. >>1 means 2 etc.. If you plot as log10, midway point between orders of magnitude is about a factor of 3 - so can round up..


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## morati (Mar 25, 2004)

My Scrub Raceday's have been on order since May but still haven't received anything yet.


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## Guest (Jul 11, 2010)

Curmy said:


> A bit on an inside joke from my previous life in experimental physics. >>1 means 2 etc.. If you plot as log10, midway point between orders of magnitude is about a factor of 3 - so can round up..


It would have been a real kneeslapper had you said the factor was the square root of 10 instead. 

Who knew that the circumference and diameter were different by nearly exactly an order of magnitude?


----------



## onlycrimson (Nov 11, 2008)

I got some aishima air rotors on the bay for $10 a piece. Good stopping power, not as good as my g3 cleansweeps, but good enough.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

craigsj said:


> It would have been a real kneeslapper had you said the factor was the square root of 10 instead.


A kneeslapper indeed! I too appreciate a good joke with a logrithmic twist!


----------



## kolarzyk (Sep 29, 2008)

New Ultimate rotors, good stopping power - much better than ashima, lighter and pads last longer with them


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

They look good aswell ! How thick are they ?


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

I just ordered the formula R1 one piece rotor. 
I'm upgrading from 160/140 to 180/160, so my new R1 is a 180 going on the front, and I'm moving my old Hayes 160 to the back for use with my strokers. 

I was tempted to get the 2 piece rotor with the red center but they are hard to get and $$$$.

Weights for the one piece R1 
160 = 86g
180 = 111g

I weigh 195 and go down some big long hills here in Colorado, so I figure I deserve a little more stopping power! :thumbsup:

50 bucks including the adapter. Not too bad.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

smilinsteve said:


> I just ordered the formula R1 one piece rotor. Weights for the one piece R1
> 160 = 86g
> 180 = 111g


that's alot lighter than the 124 & 125g Formula 180's i posted further up this thread : http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6885661&postcount=132

...did you weigh them or is that the advertised weight?


----------



## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

My formula one piece 180mm rotors:

rear: 110g. about 1.7mm thick.
front: 123g. about 1.9mm thick.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> that's alot lighter than the 124 & 125g Formula 180's i posted further up this thread : http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6885661&postcount=132
> 
> ...did you weigh them or is that the advertised weight?


That's the weight they claim on pricepoint.com



Ansible said:


> My formula one piece 180mm rotors:
> 
> rear: 110g. about 1.7mm thick.
> front: 123g. about 1.9mm thick.


That's odd they would make different 180mm rotors for front or rear. 
Why? 
When I ordered, they asked front or rear, but I figured that was just so they could include the correct adapter.


----------



## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

craigsj said:


> It would have been a real kneeslapper had you said the factor was the square root of 10 instead.


I said I was in experimental physics. Not theoretical.


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Ansible said:


> My formula one piece 180mm rotors:
> 
> rear: 110g. about 1.7mm thick.
> front: 123g. about 1.9mm thick.


cheers for that!

...so there's 2 thickness's knocking about, older version is alot lighter

i gave Jason @ Competitive Cyclist a hard time for publishing the wrong weights when i tried and failed to get the 110g (ish) 180mm rotors but received the 125g 1.9mm 2010 180mm rotors - sent them back & bought 108g 180mm Formula floating rotors instead

:thumbsup:


----------



## Ansible (Jan 30, 2004)

I ordered my rotors at the same time so I don't think its old vs new, just front vs rear. This was in december '09. My guess is they go with thinner rear rotors since rear brakes don't have as heavy demand on them as front brakes, so heat capacity in the rotor isn't as important.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Ansible said:


> I ordered my rotors at the same time so I don't think its old vs new, just front vs rear. This was in december '09. My guess is they go with thinner rear rotors since rear brakes don't have as heavy demand on them as front brakes, so heat capacity in the rotor isn't as important.


I was thinking about that, but actually, at least in my case, my rear brake gets used about 3 times as much as my front. So even though it needs to apply less force, it gets more action, and also gets hotter because it is used to control downhill speed by being applied continuously rather than on/off.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

smilinsteve said:


> I was thinking about that, but actually, at least in my case, my rear brake gets used about 3 times as much as my front. So even though it needs to apply less force, it gets more action, and also gets hotter because it is used to control downhill speed by being applied continuously rather than on/off.


Just ride fakie.


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

*A Peace Of Art*

Carbon-Ti X-rotors :thumbsup:


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

ohadamirov said:


> A Peace Of Art Carbon-Ti X-rotors :thumbsup:


oooh aaah carbon AND titanium - showbike!

how much, where from?

how do they perform under power, do they rattle yet?

:thumbsup:


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

> A Peace Of Art


Like a lot of art, it's ugly.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

smilinsteve said:


> Like a lot of art, it's ugly.


and VERY expensive


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> oooh aaah carbon AND titanium - showbike!
> 
> how much, where from?
> 
> ...


Grabbed them from Ebay, slightly used condition. The guy asked 600$ for a pair, but after many discussions, he accepted my offer for 475$, shipping included :thumbsup:

Not tryed them yet, for now i'm run with Scrubs rotors


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## gsxunv04 (May 10, 2010)

ohadamirov said:


> Carbon-Ti X-rotors :thumbsup:


$475 wasted....your scrubs weigh less dont they? The 160mm scrubs weigh 56g and the 180s are 65 grams. Nonetheless, nice rotors.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

So do you suppose this is Magura testing new rotor materials?






or fork material?


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## gsxunv04 (May 10, 2010)

I wonder what the "X"material is?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

rockyuphill said:


> So do you suppose this is Magura testing new rotor materials?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like Magura is going to change the world with that X stuff....


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

gsxunv04 said:


> $475 wasted....your scrubs weigh less dont they? The 160mm scrubs weigh 56g and the 180s are 65 grams. Nonetheless, nice rotors.


why wasted money ?

i had them last year , picture was from 12 july 2009 

now Carbon Ti is producing a full titanium rotor , lighter and with more heating dissipation properties


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

culturesponge said:


> please post pics (on scales) when you get them:thumbsup:
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/features...-handmade-bicycle-show-2010-part-seven/109870
> 
> ...


still wait for ... 1 month delay


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

gsxunv04 said:


> $475 wasted....your scrubs weigh less dont they? The 160mm scrubs weigh 56g and the 180s are 65 grams. Nonetheless, nice rotors.


I really don't care about 12g weight difference, Carbon-Ti looks awesome with Clavicula DP + Carbon-Ti 42 carbon X-ring ) i like rare/exotic and custom parts 

475$ is a great deal for a few rides used rotors, and yes i know they'r heat conductivity is not like on Scrub's. But in other case they floating and i think it's great for mine R1's pads clearence :thumbsup:


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

gsxunv04 said:


> I wonder what the "X"material is?


Adamantium? It doesn't float in the air so it's not Unobtanium.


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## CarlTroy (Feb 3, 2010)

Is it possible to use Hope's X2 160mm floating rotor with my Formula RX brakeset?


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

ohadamirov said:


> Grabbed them from Ebay, slightly used condition. The guy asked 600$ for a pair, but after many discussions, he accepted my offer for 475$, shipping included :thumbsup:
> 
> Not tryed them yet, for now i'm run with Scrubs rotors


no insult intended ohadamirov

those CarbonTi rotors look obsolete + problematic compared to whats around now

the new 160mm Scrub RaceDay rotors are approx 49g & look REALLY trick : http://www.scrubcomponents.com/html/scrub_components_-_the_raceday.html

why not sell them back on ebay & nab some 45g 160mm Innolite rotors instead? (you could get 5 of them!) : http://www.innolite.se/sida.aspx?id=50

........edit......

didn't see your post above explaining the rotors match your crankset :thumbsup:


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## CarlTroy (Feb 3, 2010)

CarlTroy said:


> Is it possible to use Hope's X2 160mm floating rotor with my Formula RX brakeset?


Still wonderin..


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

CarlTroy said:


> Still wonderin..


okay i'll bite then

good news Carl! - you can use pretty much whatever rotor you please with your Formula's :thumbsup:

we're using a set of 2010 160mm hope x2 race rotors with mag magura marta's on her rigid Vertex trainer, i just had to use the 4mm caliper spacers that came with set of R1 rotors - so now the caliper is positioned correctly ('cos magura use different sized PM-IS adapters than Formula and Hope)

don't think you'll have any problems - hope that's of help & good luck


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> I just ordered the formula R1 one piece rotor.
> I'm upgrading from 160/140 to 180/160, so my new R1 is a 180 going on the front, and I'm moving my old Hayes 160 to the back for use with my strokers.
> 
> I was tempted to get the 2 piece rotor with the red center but they are hard to get and $$$$.
> ...


Actual weight on my 180 rear formula R1 is 122g. 
IT replaced a 160 Hayes that weighs 115.5g.
That replaced a Hayes 140 on the back which weighs 99.5.

I just installed and got the rotation direction backwards. Do you think it matters?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Ansible said:


> My formula one piece 180mm rotors:
> 
> rear: 110g. about 1.7mm thick.
> front: 123g. about 1.9mm thick.


Well, mine weighs 122g and I ordered it as a rear. Maybe it's not a front/ rear thing, maybe they beefed them all up.
I don't know actual thickness of mine but it is stamped 1.75mm min.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

received the click & ship notification :thumbsup: 


finally new Scrubs are on the way home


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## morati (Mar 25, 2004)

eliflap said:


> received the click & ship notification :thumbsup:
> 
> finally new Scrubs are on the way home


Yup, just got mine too.


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

Me too (received the click & ship notification). At last:thumbsup:


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## RaikkuFIN (May 11, 2010)

I've Ashima's AIRotors(180/160mm) in my Formula R1's. Although I noticed that it was damn difficult to get rear brake drag free with Ashimas(rotor is damn close to caliber's lower edge too).


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

Culturesponge, those innolites looks very interesting. How are they holding up? My concern also is that I'm pretty close to their rider weight limit of 80kg (which I think is a pretty lousy low weight limit) since I weigh 70kgish when complete with gear when I ride. If you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh? How do they perform compared to scrub workhorse rotors? Thanks!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*innolites are alright*



morrisgarages said:


> Culturesponge, those innolites looks very interesting. How are they holding up? My concern also is that I'm pretty close to their rider weight limit of 80kg (which I think is a pretty lousy low weight limit) since I weigh 70kgish when complete with gear when I ride. If you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh? How do they perform compared to scrub workhorse rotors? Thanks!



Innolites after 500 miles (482 to be more precise)


build up from pads improve braking power + reduce noise

i was sceptical when i bought mine & was prepared that the Innolites could be like 1st gen Stans alloy rotors and really be a "race day only" & errr abit finnicky

but!

i was wrong, they are quite abit thicker than Scrubs or Stans rotors so are harder to bend out of whack - so no rub issues to date. also braking with a dedicated set of SwissStop or Kool-Stop organic pads is very good & consistant - obviously not as terrific as stainless steel rotors, my Innolites have yet to overheat even on really hot days with 6 mile high speed descents that have literally smoked & ruined Magura SL abs rotors several times

rode in a storm with Innolites, the rain was pelting down hard enough to sting my face & legs but braking wasn't affected much - but was riding slower than usual as i could hardly see 

braking distances with Innolites seem to be pretty much the same as with Scrubs, innitial bite is not as good as Stainless Steel rotors & the power comes is about 85-90% but its plenty of stop for someone within the recc weight limit

have 2 sets of 160mm Innolites now, very happy with them :thumbsup:

my bodyweight fluctuates between 75 & 77kg - depending on pies per mile 

best!


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

As always, great review and nice pictures culturesponge! So, since I'm planning to get my first set of serious ww rotors (I'm using alligators now 160/f and 140/r) what would you suggest? Or maybe I should stick with a 160 stainless up front and an innolite for the rear? Thanks again for your response culturesponge!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

really depends how steep your trails are + how late & hard you brake, your okay for weight

i get great braking with innolites with R1's or those old magura marta's & ride quite sloppily, i have to keep a check on myself as i often can drag brakes on the long fast steep descents here

if your trails are not too steep you could easily use 160/140 innolites and have more balanced braking than i'm experiencing with 160/160 & with that 140mm innolite you'll own the worlds lightest brake rotor + massive ww points to you :thumbsup:


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

anyone knows how thick are new or old srub rotors? and how thicker are innolite ones?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

anyone knows how thick are new or old srub rotors? and how thicker are innolite ones?
Also what is the width of braking surface in innolites?


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

the new KCNC rotors (here the 160 mm):


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Chain Reaction Cycles has the Magura Storm SL rotors in stock, just ordered enough to replace two sets on my bikes.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I've got 2 months now on the R1 rotors, 203s on my DH bike and 160s on my AM. They feel just like Shimano XT or Hayes rotors and definitely have more bite and handle heat better than Alligator Windcutters. They stay straight and don't do anything weird.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*48g & 55g Carbon-Ti - X-Rotor Carbon / Titanium*

new blingy rotors from Carbon-Ti

Product available: 01.11.2010
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
Use: MTB
Material: Carbon / Titanium
Sizes and weight:
140 mm - 48 gr
160 mm - 55 gr
Compatible: with organic brake pads


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## 1993gsxr907 (Sep 12, 2010)

culturesponge said:


> new blingy rotors from Carbon-Ti
> 
> Product available: 01.11.2010
> 318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
> ...


318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
318,00 € (inc 19% VAT)
:nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono: :nono:
$437.09 US OMG


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

resist!

....i did say blingy & not terrific value for money 

also looks like they would munch through organic pads too


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

The Carbon Ti steel version look's good. 
The weight is not great but ok. 140 mm at 65 g and 160mm at 75g. 
Price is at 185,00 € including 19% VAT. That's about US$40 more then my Scrub Raceday rotor.

I wonder if the rotors heats up too much will they dish? Will the carbon warp/bend?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

A carbon carrier to replace metal just makes heat dissipation worse, and the weight benefit is negligible, for all but the most obsessed and deranged weight weenie, so really, they are a complete waste of cash IMO.


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## IM31408 (Dec 24, 2008)

Well I thought I might give you guys a heads up on a set of rotors I am developing and I figured I'm far enough along to tell you guys. Now I can't tell you many details, but they are pretty special so far. They are a carbon fiber rotor for both weight and heat dissipation. And I know many of you guys are thinking of how they would never work, but I assure you they do. I can't tell you exatly how I solved a number of issues, but I can tell you that they weigh around 26 grams right now and are working thus far. But one problem I've had so far is that they are too powerful with a lot of bite, but they don't fade what so ever. So they are around 1/4 of the weight of a similar steel rotor with more power and no fade. But there is a slight catch: they will cost around $275. So I figured I'd let you guys know and to look for them in a few months.


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## PeterGer (Feb 18, 2010)

From light-bikes Romania

Ashima D-Matrix

160 mm => 59g

Information from light-bikes italy:
"The D-Matrix rotor uses an aluminum core surrounded by a steel braking surface. The aluminum dissipates heat extremely well, and the steel is durable, and they work in concert to create a fade and warp resistant system, with good bite."

Picture from light-bikes Germany:


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## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

One of the best looking rotors by the huge margin, imo.
Weight is sweet as well, $1m question 'how much'?


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

1415chris said:


> One of the best looking rotors by the huge margin, imo.
> Weight is sweet as well, $1m question 'how much'?


Spoke with Wayne at Ashima, no price as yet (still beta). I should have a test set at the end of the year.

This was my statement from my Interbike daily articles:

Wayne over at the Ashima booth had a couple of interesting new toys on display. The D-Matrix rotor (still in design) uses an aluminum core surrounded by a steel braking surface. The aluminum dissipates heat extremely well, and the steel is durable, and they work in concert to create a fade and warp resistant system, with good bite. It's a pretty trick rotor, that is light, with a lot of functional design features, and I can't wait to try one of these suckers out!

Interesting the wording is the same???? Think they borrowed my statement.

Information from light-bikes italy:
"The D-Matrix rotor uses an aluminum core surrounded by a steel braking surface. The aluminum dissipates heat extremely well, and the steel is durable, and they work in concert to create a fade and warp resistant system, with good bite."


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

IM31408 said:


> Well I thought I might give you guys a heads up on a set of rotors I am developing and I figured I'm far enough along to tell you guys. Now I can't tell you many details, but they are pretty special so far. They are a carbon fiber rotor for both weight and heat dissipation. And I know many of you guys are thinking of how they would never work, but I assure you they do. I can't tell you exatly how I solved a number of issues, but I can tell you that they weigh around 26 grams right now and are working thus far. But one problem I've had so far is that they are too powerful with a lot of bite, but they don't fade what so ever. So they are around 1/4 of the weight of a similar steel rotor with more power and no fade. But there is a slight catch: they will cost around $275. So I figured I'd let you guys know and to look for them in a few months.


Pictures!!!!!


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## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

IM31408 said:


> Well I thought I might give you guys a heads up on a set of rotors I am developing and I figured I'm far enough along to tell you guys. Now I can't tell you many details, but they are pretty special so far. They are a carbon fiber rotor for both weight and heat dissipation. And I know many of you guys are thinking of how they would never work, but I assure you they do. I can't tell you exatly how I solved a number of issues, but I can tell you that they weigh around 26 grams right now and are working thus far. But one problem I've had so far is that they are too powerful with a lot of bite, but they don't fade what so ever. So they are around 1/4 of the weight of a similar steel rotor with more power and no fade. But there is a slight catch: they will cost around $275. So I figured I'd let you guys know and to look for them in a few months.


More info?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

it's mostly carbon impregnated by SIC i suppose. carbon itself is very poor thermal conductor - that's why you need to use special pads with heat shield. Otherwise your brake will boil. 

Look how much ceramic insulation is on carbon specific car brake pads.
I am working on this also but want to produce special pads for it.


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## 1993gsxr907 (Sep 12, 2010)

IM31408 said:


> Well I thought I might give you guys a heads up on a set of rotors I am developing and I figured I'm far enough along to tell you guys. Now I can't tell you many details, but they are pretty special so far. They are a carbon fiber rotor for both weight and heat dissipation. And I know many of you guys are thinking of how they would never work, but I assure you they do. I can't tell you exatly how I solved a number of issues, but I can tell you that they weigh around 26 grams right now and are working thus far. But one problem I've had so far is that they are too powerful with a lot of bite, but they don't fade what so ever. So they are around 1/4 of the weight of a similar steel rotor with more power and no fade. But there is a slight catch: they will cost around $275. So I figured I'd let you guys know and to look for them in a few months.


come on now reallly????????????????? :skep:


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## 1993gsxr907 (Sep 12, 2010)

1415chris said:


> One of the best looking rotors by the huge margin, imo.
> Weight is sweet as well, $1m question 'how much'?


yeah..


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## IM31408 (Dec 24, 2008)

tehan said:


> it's mostly carbon impregnated by SIC i suppose. carbon itself is very poor thermal conductor - that's why you need to use special pads with heat shield. Otherwise your brake will boil.


Actually carbon is one of the best thermal conductors. Formula 1 rotors are solid carbon (actually carbon fiber in a graphite matrix) and they are the best rotors out there in terms of heat dissipation. And the insulation on high performance brakes serves to improve the brakes even further even though the rotors don't need it, it's just when you pay $15,000 you expect everything with the brakes to be the best. And actually I looked at SiC impregnated, but I found a better solution in terms of cost and are almost identical in terms of performance. And as for pictures, I can't exactly show you guys as you would figure out what I did to make them work just by looking at them. You'll get to see them soon.


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## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

IM31408 said:


> Actually carbon is one of the best thermal conductors. Formula 1 rotors are solid carbon (actually carbon fiber in a graphite matrix) and they are the best rotors out there in terms of heat dissipation. And the insulation on high performance brakes serves to improve the brakes even further even though the rotors don't need it, it's just when you pay $15,000 you expect everything with the brakes to be the best. And actually I looked at SiC impregnated, but I found a better solution in terms of cost and are almost identical in terms of performance. And as for pictures, I can't exactly show you guys as you would figure out what I did to make them work just by looking at them. You'll get to see them soon.


I would bet for steel particles mixed in the epoxy matrix...


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## 1993gsxr907 (Sep 12, 2010)

what cost 15,000?


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2010)

From Carbon Fiber Composite: Structural and Thermal Properties
_Thermal conductivity of carbon fibers varies from 8.5 to 640 W/m K. The pitch-based fiber have larger conductivities while those for pan-based fibers are very small. The conductivity of fiber is also related to modulus; the higher the modulus, the higher the conductivity.​_Furthermore, it's not just the fiber than matters, it's the entire composite. To say "Actually carbon is one of the best thermal conductors" is not universally true nor is it the whole story.

Thermal conductivity is also not the only consideration or even the most important one. Coefficient of friction and thermal stability are important as well. From this article on carbon composite brakes:
_The high peak temperatures generated by C/C disc and pad materials can be an issue, however, which is one of the reasons why C/C automotive brake applications have been limited to open wheel configurations, such as those used in Formula One racing. C/C brake discs also suffer low friction coefficient in cold and damp conditions and therefore are not suitable for production cars.​_They also say:
_Carbon fiber-reinforced silicon carbide (C/SiC), however, has been used as a performance braking option on high-end luxury cars for several years and is gaining ground in OEM-installed applications and aftermarket sectors for both production cars and motorcycles as these sectors increasingly seek to improve fuel efficiency.​_Certain composites are suitable for certain kinds of braking applications, but it's not the universal slamdunk IM31408 has suggested. I would say "wait and see".


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I still obtain that carbon fiber used for disc brakes have very low thermal conductivity - that's why it glows so quickly. F1 uses it because there are other properties that are good - it's super light and can withstans temp shocks of 1000deg.

Usually it has 3-4 W/mk - so it is Very poor conductor - www.sicom-brakes.com/DMC_-_Prasentation1.pdf

Before you write something you need to read something with understanding. I was interested in data sheet how do they make carbon fiber SIC impregnated rotors and found lots of interesting information. Such impregnation is very complicated and it's not just powder mixed with resin. SIC crystals actually grow in carbon - that's why it is soo strong and wear resistant.

C/C F1 brakes use C/C pads that's why you can use them! because they have very good grip and are shosc resistant - In boeing they use also C/C brakes...

but in street cars they use SiC impregnation because you can't use C/C pads. With SIC impregnation you can youse normal ceramic pads - and that's the difference - you have the grip in low temp.

forgot to write:
SIC itself has 126W/mk and is usually a 30% by volume in such street rotor - and this gives minimum necessary thermal conductivity into the vanes of rotor.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Doubt they are using 2mm thin rotors? I would think the thickness would be an issue?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Interesting topic. I didn't know carbon can have such a high thermal conductivity, but it can - higher than steel or aluminum even. So, I am skeptical as well, but it sounds like there is some potential there. 
(Not that I'm going to spend $275 to save 40 grams, but still, interesting).


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

i got a quote from Taiwanese company who makes Boeing carbon rotors and price for a 1sqm is higher than the price for Ti:/

pastajet - In car industry they use rotors something like 20mm -30mm(this one vented). But forces are different. This manufacturer assured me that 2mm will work in bike application but price is really high( when you add then vat, duty, cutting labour and margin price will be up in the sky. No wonder that no big company is producing them because retail would be more than 300$ And such disc is fragile on side hits. So when a stick or stone hit the rotor it will brake. Same in Car industry


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

tehan said:


> anyone knows how thick are new or old srub rotors? and how thicker are innolite ones?
> Also what is the width of braking surface in innolites?


#1 Scrub 160mm "workhorse" rotor (very used 55g)
thickness : 1.77mm
braking track : 18.92mm

#2 Scrub 160mm "workhorse" rotor (used slightly less)
thickness : 1.91mm
braking track : 19.02mm

#1 Innolite 160mm rotor (slightly used 48g)
thickness : 2.28mm
braking track : 14.75mm

#2 Innolite 160mm rotor (slightly used 46g)
thickness : 1.96mm
braking track : 14.45mm

#3 Innolite 160mm rotor (new 39g)
thickness : 1.87mm
braking track : 13.84mm

Hope Race X2 160mm rotor (slightly used 79g)
thickness : 1.79mm
braking track : 14.22mm

NoTubes 160mm rotor 2nd gen (new 63g)
thickness : 2.05mm
braking track : 16.31mm

....edit to add more info..


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

culturesponge you are the man

but are you sure about thickness of X2 rotor? mine is 1.68 brand new. there is also huge discrepancy in innolite ones between then. I also assume tah this weight is for 140mm?
#3 Innolite 160mm rotor (new 39g)


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

tehan said:


> culturesponge you are the man
> 
> but are you sure about thickness of X2 rotor? mine is 1.68 brand new. there is also huge discrepancy in innolite ones between then. I also assume tah this weight is for 140mm?
> #3 Innolite 160mm rotor (new 39g)


perhaps i should have put a disclaimer "using brand new digital calipers so readings might have user errors" 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GSLKIW/ref=oss_product

just re-measured the x2's & the calipers seem to agree with you - had tried to measure rotors while the bike was on the stand (bad idea)

all 3 Innolites measured were different, the lightest one has more slanted cut-outs + narrower braking track - so really is raceday only


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

IM31408 said:


> Actually carbon is one of the best thermal conductors. Formula 1 rotors are solid carbon (actually carbon fiber in a graphite matrix) and they are the best rotors out there in terms of heat dissipation. And the insulation on high performance brakes serves to improve the brakes even further even though the rotors don't need it, it's just when you pay $15,000 you expect everything with the brakes to be the best. And actually I looked at SiC impregnated, but I found a better solution in terms of cost and are almost identical in terms of performance. And as for pictures, I can't exactly show you guys as you would figure out what I did to make them work just by looking at them. You'll get to see them soon.


HEY! I want to see these rotors. Do they exist? 

Thanks


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## IM31408 (Dec 24, 2008)

bikerboyj17 said:


> HEY! I want to see these rotors. Do they exist?
> 
> Thanks


Unfortunately they're still a year or two away, as the company providing the bit they absolutely need in order to work suddenly decided to stop communicating, so until I find another company with a similar service, they're sitting idle. Also I've been rather occupied producing an MMC rotor, so all my efforts are concentrated on these. So basically I'm not even going to be refining the design until I finish work on the MMC's, which won't be for at least 6 months, but I hopefully will eventually get back to them.


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> I've got 2 months now on the R1 rotors, 203s on my DH bike and 160s on my AM. They feel just like Shimano XT or Hayes rotors and definitely have more bite and handle heat better than Alligator Windcutters. They stay straight and don't do anything weird.


Lelandjt, are you still using Storm SL rotors on your bikes?
I've just came back from a trip to Portes du Soleil (including Champery DH track  ), where my Code 2011 (front) and Elixir brakes worked really well with Alligator WindCutter rotors, however... I think, rotors with more breaking surface may work better... Storms SL look like have more surface...


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Not sure what you mean about the Storm SL rotors. I'm still using the Formula R1/The One rotors on all 3 bikes 160, 180, and 203. They work great.


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

Oh, my bad  I mixed something up  Sorry, mate! 

rockyuphill, it was a question to you (about Storm SL rotors)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Interesting about the Storm SL rotors, they work great on XTR 975 brakes, and they are very hard to make work on Marta SL brakes, and yet they shouldn't be any thicker than Marta SL rotors, but they are very noisy with Marta SL brakes.

With XTR brakes the thicker rotors improve the contact point in the long lever pull on the XTR brakes and with organic pads they stop great and are quiet. 

Still not as good or as light as the new XTR ICE Tech CL rotors and 985 brakes though, that is a light combo that has mind bending stopping power. .


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

Not as light? 

I thought XTR Ice Tech CL rotors were about 25g heavier than Storm SL ones.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Not once you add the DT Swiss CL adapters to the Storm SL 160mm rotors (127gms), then the ICE Tech are about 3gm lighter (124gms for the 160mm with lockring) and if you add the Magura CL adapter to the Storm SL rotors it's 141gms for the combo.


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## frango (Oct 10, 2004)

rockyuphill, what about using Storm SL rotors instead of WindCutters on Avid brakes (Code 2011 and Elixir CR)? Do you think it would bring any improvement?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Hard to say how they'd work on Avid brakes, the Storm rotors are thicker than most other rotors, you'd have to try it.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Currently this rotor weighs 75 grams, donor is a SM-RT97 and some creative thinking.


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

I wonder why noone mentioned the Quad Pulse XC which is 84gr for 160 and 100gr for 180 (weighted myself). It does have the pulsing sensation which is actually great since when it's raining the performance it doesn't get slippery. Almost like ABS system in cars...

OEM


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## GiantMartin (Sep 12, 2007)

I am using Ashima half/half pads, no issues


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Veda said:


> I wonder why no one mentioned the Quad Pulse XC. It does have the pulsing sensation, almost like ABS system.


^^^^


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## Jack Jack (Sep 7, 2011)

anyone on ashima Airotor? I am currently using them but seem that the braking isnt as good as when i am on the XT rotors.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Jack Jack said:


> anyone on ashima Airotor? I am currently using them but seem that the braking isnt as good as when i am on the XT rotors.


I've used both. AiRotor braking is not as good as XT in the dry and much, much less in the wet. The XT rotors perform really well wet or dry but they are heavy :madman:

Recently in the rain I've been using 2012 XX rotors. They too are heavy (98g) but probably still lighter than XT.


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## Jack Jack (Sep 7, 2011)

thats what i thougth as well when i was using the airotor.. they are light but the braking is much lacking .any idea how much the new ICE rotor would weigh for hte 160mm?


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## hyperspeed (Jun 21, 2013)

Looking for a lightweight rotor that stops real good . I running avid rotors and they weigh in at 97.2g each =( Looking for a rotor that weighs around 60 to 75g each and that can stop well with no noise. If there are rotors that are lighter and still stop good I am open to them as well Can you all give some advice thank you guys =)


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## shupack (Nov 28, 2012)

iso titanium

havn't tried them (yet) but AB makes nice stuff...


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## Minley1 (Apr 4, 2012)

I have been using these for about 9 months now, very good rotors, I'm using a KCNC 6 bolt adaptor.
Lots of other great products on this site (based in the UK)

Quaxar Iris ultralight disc brake rotor 160mm 67g!


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Looks like the Aishima Ai2...which I'm running. Don't stop nearly as well as the RT-86 that I came from.


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

shupack said:


> iso titanium
> 
> havn't tried them (yet) but AB makes nice stuff...


Those look to have some promise...decent material in the brake lanes(which is the whole problem here...Aishima not as good as XX not as good as Shimano...more material more weight)

I see Quaxar has a 2 piece also that can be bought on ebay.

Is the braking that bad on the KCNC/Aishima/etc - I want modulation to the point I lock them up(when I want) not immediately which is what I picture with the new Shimano stuff(never ridden them though).


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## hyperspeed (Jun 21, 2013)

I bought the quaxar rotors and love them 67grams works great in the rain and the dry . Very light stops way better then I imagined . Thanks for the advice


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## MultiRider (Dec 27, 2005)

Many common rotors are 100-130g each for 160mm. KCNC rotors are 70-ish grams each. I got mine off eBay. Took several weeks to arrive, but they showed up.

Any of the lightweight rotors will necessarily have less braking surface. Big gaps between the braking surface (like the KCNC rotors) will accelerate pad wear. 

I have "all mountain" wheels with Avid rotors and beefy tires, then "race" wheels with KCNC rotors and light/fast rolling tires. Thus, I'm not sure how much the KCNC rotors accelerate pad wear, I read about it in a review of them and it makes sense. But they're not my everyday rotors.

Hope that helps!


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

MultiRider said:


> Many common rotors are 100-130g each for 160mm. KCNC rotors are 70-ish grams each. I got mine off eBay. Took several weeks to arrive, but they showed up.
> 
> Any of the lightweight rotors will necessarily have less braking surface. Big gaps between the braking surface (like the KCNC rotors) will accelerate pad wear.
> 
> ...


What is your perspective on the KCNC - do they work well? Do they work as well as the Avids? If they work as well but chew pads...not such a bad deal.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

If you want a light steel rotor Formula R1 is the lightest with normal stopping properties.


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## MultiRider (Dec 27, 2005)

The KCNC rotors work just like the Avids, Hayes, and other rotors in my collection - no better, no worse. I was a bit concerned when I bolted them on due to the lack of braking surface, but I use them to race in Winter Park and other mtb events in the Rocky Mountains and have had no issues even on the steepest, longest descents. That includes the Leadville 100 (descending Powerline outbound and Columbine inbound requires powerful and reliable brakes), Silver Rush 50, Gunnison Growler, and many other events. I'm using Avid Elixr brakes.


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

MultiRider said:


> The KCNC rotors work just like the Avids, Hayes, and other rotors in my collection - no better, no worse. I was a bit concerned when I bolted them on due to the lack of braking surface, but I use them to race in Winter Park and other mtb events in the Rocky Mountains and have had no issues even on the steepest, longest descents. That includes the Leadville 100 (descending Powerline outbound and Columbine inbound requires powerful and reliable brakes), Silver Rush 50, Gunnison Growler, and many other events. I'm using Avid Elixr brakes.


I wondered on that. Are people making a bigger deal than is warranted about brakes...hydraulics are way more powerful than Vbrakes. Avid sells a lot of brakes, and has the most complaints...is it really any more than the percentage they sell compared to others? Are different discs any better...other than 'I think they are better'?
This should probably be its own topic.
MultiRider you are easy on your brakes or they work really well?


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## MultiRider (Dec 27, 2005)

It is hard to define "easy on your brakes". I try to brake smoothly, but that is primarily to reduce locking. I race the Expert class and took 3rd place today on a really rough Winter Park course that had a LOT of extended descending. Some was high speed and some was tight/twisty in-the-woods-with-roots-and-rocks-and-dips-and-drops. I never intentionally took it easy on my brakes. 100% of my focus was going as fast as possible. There were a lot of downhill switchbacks with dips and drops and braking bumps, so I was on the brakes hard before the drops, then pedaling, then braking. I used to race the Pro class in motocross, so I'm pretty good at letting it ride across the top of the bumps, then jamming the brakes at the last second to rip a corner. It was a pretty tough course today and much of it was first-time-ever for me, so I didn't know what to expect. That resulted in some serious panic braking -- either I stopped due to braking or I'd stop by hitting a tree. I gotta tell ya -- I'm pretty sure I scared a few trees!!

I've had my Elixers since 2011. I've bled them a few times. No more than the Hayes I had prior to that, probably less than the Maguras before that. Of course, that is comparing 2011 Elixers to 2008 Hayses to 2006 Maguras. With the Elixrs, there was one time that I just couldn't get them right, so I took them to a shop and paid them to do it. I watched, it appeared they did exactly what I did, but the brakes were solid when they did it, so I paid and went away happy.

Bottom line - KCNC rotors are quite light, reasonably priced, and, in my experience, brake as well as anything else of the same diameter.


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