# When is the "UP Country" bike going to be invented!!



## VFR800Essex (Jun 18, 2021)

I wonder what made up products will be invented in 2022!!??

What will they re-invent in 2022 and up the price by 30%!!??

Hambini is about to dissect the AbsoluteBLACK HOLLOWcage Carbon Ceramic derailleur pulley cage!!

I wonder how it will stand up to an engineer!?


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## kosmo (Oct 27, 2004)

If the new 120 bikes are down country bikes (sounds better to me than "trail lite", eh?!), then I would submit that my new Supercaliber with 60 mm of travel is the UP country bike you seek.

But I woulda held off if I'd known I could have hollow ceramic RD pulleys! 🙃


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

When will my calling the gravel bike my sh_tty road bike catch on?


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

They already make Up Country bikes, they have an E- in front of the name. 


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## Loll (May 2, 2006)

Trek supercaliber.

If only they manage to make that 100mm, this bike would be even more popular. @trek, seen what Scott did with their xc full suspension bike?

But I guess that wouldn’t be up country. Thats regular xc.


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## Mike Aswell (Sep 1, 2009)

bitflogger said:


> When will my calling the gravel bike my sh_tty road bike catch on?


There was a humorous article somewhere yesterday -- I forget where -- about how flat bar gravel bikes are nearly indistinguishable from mountain bikes from the 90's. 

If you wait long enough, everything comes back around.


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## FreuderLocks (May 20, 2010)

VFR800Essex said:


> I wonder what made up products will be invented in 2022!!??
> 
> What will they re-invent in 2022 and up the price by 30%!!??
> 
> ...


Its already been said, it's called an e bike...


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Having lived in the mountains, "Down Country" kind of made sense. It was everything not High Country, where the trails had long, rough descents, and a bigger bike makes sense. I often found my 100mm bikes with 120mm forks outgunned in the High Country. They were subject to descending fatigue and also pinch flats on the extended, rough, descents. But they were perfect for all the trails not in the High Country.

So in my mind...Up Country is already a thing, high country...which is a word often used in mountain regions.


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

What _is_ UpCountry?

Nobody knows, but it's provocative...


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Ask @WhatsUpcountry
=sParty

EDIT: Wow, we posted at the same time, @WhatsUpcountry !


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

I thought Up Country was kind of like the Beverly Hillbillies? The modern version is a McMansion on a farm and all that sheit parked in your yard somewhat ran within the last 5 years.... my people. 

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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

Sparticus said:


> Ask @WhatsUpcountry
> =sParty
> 
> EDIT: Wow, we posted at the same time, @WhatsUpcountry !


I saw this thread and knew it was my time to shine.

At a minimum, upcountry definitely smells better than updog.


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm still waiting for Mid Country.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)




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## avlfj40 (Jul 14, 2008)

We've had upcountry in Asheville for a few years now Home


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## brex17 (Jan 31, 2019)

Down country is a stupid term made up by an idiot on another mountain bike website.
It isn't a real term to "the industry" and the world would be a better place if people would stop using it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Using a skiing parallel could enduro bikes be called side country bikes instead?


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Rough country!


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

BREAKING:

Bike industry prepares class-action lawsuit against MTBR for leaking next year's global marketing slogan


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

You've not heard of up-country bikes? They look like this and blend in with your gold plated Ferrari. But you have to be named Thurston or Paige to ride one.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> What _is_ UpCountry?
> 
> Nobody knows, but it's provocative...


I’m still not 100% sure what down country is. 🤣


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

FortOrdMTB said:


> I’m still not 100% sure what down country is. 🤣


No one is. That's the beauty of it.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

BadgerOne said:


> You've not heard of up-country bikes? They look like this and blend in with your gold plated Ferrari. But you have to be named Thurston or Paige to ride one.


Meh. Where the hell am I going to find gold plated pedals to go with this?
=sParty


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Bikebling

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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

I say:
Down with upcountry;
Up with downcountry!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

I am hoping for someone to invent the headshok but in carbon and 29". and then invent a rear suspension that uses flex stays and a small shock. those 2 things have never been invented before so i am sure someone will be able to think of it on their own. /s

but i really want a carbon 29er headshok. that would be awesome.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Loll said:


> Trek supercaliber.
> 
> If only they manage to make that 100mm, this bike would be even more* proprietary*


Fixed.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

brentos said:


> Having lived in the mountains, "Down Country" kind of made sense. It was everything not High Country, where the trails had long, rough descents, and a bigger bike makes sense. I often found my 100mm bikes with extended outgunned in the High Country. They were subject to descending fatigue and also pinch flats on the extended, rough, descents.


Ahh...so what we would call a "trail bike" then...


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

FortOrdMTB said:


> I’m still not 100% sure what down country is. 🤣


A term Mike Levy came up with as joke for slightly beefed up XC bikes. Then everyone ran with it and started calling anything with less than 130mm of travel downcountry. Then there was backlash from people saying "isn't that just a trail bike?". Then a few companies picked up on the joke and used it for limited marketing. MTBR seems to think, like they do with everything, that it started as a marketing trend.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Mike Aswell said:


> There was a humorous article somewhere yesterday -- I forget where -- about how flat bar gravel bikes are nearly indistinguishable from mountain bikes from the 90's.
> 
> If you wait long enough, everything comes back around.


My Kona Sutra Ltd is a 71/73 degree steel bike just like my Fat Chances were and are decades ago. I still have my OG WTB off road drops that would probably give some of the retro bike a wet spot in their pants. I suppose the Fat Chance too.

While parts, wheels and some materials are new and superior, we still have my going to be 60 years old Schwinn Typhoon and some 1970s "racers" old steel bikes at the cabin. If you ride one of the early 1970s Raleigh or Schwinn bikes you are on a heavy gravel bike with a 5 speed in the back. What my admittedly sweet Routt 45 (Moots) with plastic wheels really does is just give an old guy comfort and reliability. One thing modern bikes have or can have is far superior reach and stack. High stack is a blessing when you're a boomer physically but usually around age 17-22 mentally.

Full disclosure: With a few old bikes that would give the retro crowd a wet spot in their pants, I confess to rarely riding them. That is a mix of comfort/reliability/durability.


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

Jayem said:


> Ahh...so what we would call a "trail bike" then...


I usually call all of them bikes but it's kind of fun calling my Routt 45 a sh_tty road bike when some recognize what it is or when some have no idea what it is. All the niches and ways some are tribal plus the crowds are making just a bike and leaving on it from my driveway very attractive this year.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

jeremy3220 said:


> A term Mike Levy came up with as joke for slightly beefed up XC bikes. Then everyone ran with it and started calling anything with less than 130mm of travel downcountry. Then there was backlash from people saying "isn't that just a trail bike?". Then a few companies picked up on the joke and used it for limited marketing. MTBR seems to think, like they do with everything, that it started as a marketing trend.


To be honest though, the entire bike industry is just one big marketing trend. Everything we have today is just trendy derivations of the same **** we had 20 yrs ago. bike manufacturers just keep carving little sections of the same pie and make bikes and clothing for that little segment and call it new and innovative. There have been a few actual technology leaps but by and large it is all marketing BS. anything “gravel” is a prime example of this.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Jefflinde said:


> Everything we have today is just trendy derivations of the same **** we had 20 yrs ago.


I'll have to think about that one a bit...


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

What's the line between upcountry and upduro?


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Since it's always stated that it's all marketing..

What improvements do you see can be made to the safety bicycle?

I mean, the basic design hasn't changed since the 1880s.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

dysfunction said:


> Since it's always stated that it's all marketing..
> 
> What improvements do you see can be made to the safety bicycle?
> 
> I mean, the basic design hasn't changed since the 1880s.


Sometimes I wish I had a roll cage...


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Josh Patterson said:


> What's the line between upcountry and upduro?


10 millimeters.
=sParty

P.S. Sick vid. If I had that bike, I could easily ride like that, too.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

brex17 said:


> Down country is a stupid term made up by an idiot on another mountain bike website.
> It isn't a real term to "the industry" and the world would be a better place if people would stop using it.


Except it is now an "industry" term used by companies both large and small. Any term that could help sell a bike will be embraced by the industry.
Downcountry mountain bikes | Trek Bikes
What is a downcountry bike?
https://www.merida-bikes.com/en/p/product-news-bikes/the-new-ninety-six-461.html
https://www.chumbausa.com/sendero-titanium-custom-mountain-bike-29er

And after listening to all of the podcast episodes, I think Levy has a pretty good attitude about the whole "downcountry" thing.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> What improvements do you see can be made to the safety bicycle?


Making cars and trucks out of marshmallows.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

I'm trying to find the line between downcountry and dumbcountry.

I've got it...flatmeadow. Flatmeadow bikes, built for wandering gradeless clearings full of poppies and butterfiles. Surely they need bespoke geometry and componentry for such groundbreaking activities.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

BadgerOne said:


> Making cars and trucks out of marshmallows.


Airbags on the trail too.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Let's pick on "cross country" for a while.

I mean, like, do we think it should be exempt just because it came first? Maybe "down country" is righter.

And those bikes that circus performers ride? Clown country.

Discuss.
=sParty


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Sparticus said:


> Let's pick on cross country for a while.
> 
> I mean, like, do we think it should be exempt just because it came first?
> =sParty


Clearly people are doing it wrong. I have yet to see anyone actually cross the country on on of these bikes.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Sparticus said:


> Let's pick on "cross country" for a while.
> 
> I mean, like, do we think it should be exempt just because it came first? Maybe "down country" is righter.
> 
> ...


Why you gotta be all aggro with unicyclists sParty?!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Commuter bikes = city country


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Okay, "country" is now a non-word to me thanks to semantic satiation. Great. Country. Country. Country.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)




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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

BadgerOne said:


> Clearly people are doing it wrong. I have yet to see anyone actually cross the country on on of these bikes.


You didn't say which direction. Some of them might have earned the moniker. 
https://bikepacking.com/bikes/tour-divide-rigs-2021/


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## WhatsUpcountry (Mar 1, 2020)

It's also worth noting that there are a lot of degens from upcountry.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

WhatsUpcountry said:


> It's also worth noting that there are a lot of degens from upcountry.


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## Hibikealot (Oct 14, 2021)

When I'm drinking I'm "down with country"......any other time I stick my nose "up at country.
But with anything marketing related,these are just made up words to get people talking and buying bikes that have certain qualities that get lumped into sub genres just like music.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Brocountry


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I think Trigger's jealous.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

dysfunction said:


> Airbags on the trail too.


I don't know where you ride, but I'm constantly encountering airbags on the trails.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

As a proud member of DVT (Down Valley Trash) I am on team Down Country and give the middle finger to those Up Valley snobs and their Up Country bikes.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)

I think downcountry is a perfect description for my Intense 951 XC bike. I don't give two chits about why or who came out with the term, jeez you guys seem to get bent out of shape about the smallest things.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

rton20s said:


> Except it is now an "industry" term used by companies both large and small. Any term that could help sell a bike will be embraced by the industry.
> Downcountry mountain bikes | Trek Bikes
> What is a downcountry bike?
> https://www.merida-bikes.com/en/p/product-news-bikes/the-new-ninety-six-461.html
> ...


It's not a "real" thing. It's just an long-forked XC bike.

Here's why:

More aggressive riding needs a shock LC tuned more progressive. XC bikes tend to have less progression for the type of riding they do. Moving up to DH bikes, they tend to have the most. An increase in how aggressive you intend to ride the bike should be accompanied by an increase in LC progression.

When these companies take their XC race frame and put a longer fork on it, it ain't "downcountry".

Then there's the shock and tune. If it's going to be riding DH, it needs to be something like a Float X, X2, or heck, a coil shock. Yes, a short-travel in-line coil shock. Something made to be ridden harder with more adjustments than your typical XC race shock. Again, this all requires the bike be specifically tuned in terms of it's LC and LR, more progressive than the XC race bike with potentially the same amount of rear travel.

Then the components, you want sturdy, not freeride-heavy, but bigger brakes for higher speeds, etc.

Companies are doing one of two things, they are taking their 100mm bike, putting a 120-130 fork on it and saying "here, look, it's now downcountry!". This was already a thing, the XC bikes usually came with 20mm more front travel in the non-race builds where you typically had a choice to choose or where the top spec was much more "racey". We just called this....XC. The other thing is they are taking their trail bike with 115-120mm of travel and putting a 130mm fork on it and saying "here, look, it's downcountry!". Same thing, it already existed, it was just called a trail bike.

To date, I don't know of anyone making a "downcountry" bike. There are some possible advantages and it kind of mirrors the old FS dual slalom bikes, as they didn't have much travel, but you didn't need much travel for that kind of riding. Something with only 4-4.5" of travel that you can rock on gentler downhills is definitely fun...but no one is really tweaking the frames to maximize this to the extent where I'd call it anything other than XC or trail bike. If it were truly downcountry, I'd expect it with a CC IL coil, appropriate progressive leverage curve, slacker than the XC race bike without screwing up other geometry stuff (so not the same exact frame), maybe a short-travel 120 36 or Lyrik, etc. THEN we could start talking about "downcountry" being something other than an XC bike or a trail bike IMO. I think the idea does have some merit for rocking a flow trail, but I can't think it would work economically, too many different bike models/frames when your bigger seller is still going to be the trail bike that suits more people and situations.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

Jefflinde said:


> To be honest though, the entire bike industry is just one big marketing trend. Everything we have today is just trendy derivations of the same **** we had 20 yrs ago. bike manufacturers just keep carving little sections of the same pie and make bikes and clothing for that little segment and call it new and innovative. There have been a few actual technology leaps but by and large it is all marketing BS. anything “gravel” is a prime example of this.



Do you really think that the bikes we ride today are just trendy versions of bikes from the late 90's and early 00's?

I would think and hope that you can realize that suspension, dropper posts, disc brakes, and most importantly geometry have changed drastically over the past 20 years. It didn't happen all at once, but with small tweaks and better understanding. Also large changes are typically not greeted well by consumers. 

But if it is all marketing BS then go ride your HT with 80mm of leaking oil/elastomer filled fork with its super stiff QR axles 1.9" tires on 19mmID rims with a 72° HTA, 500mm bars and 390mm reach.

P.S. Not dissing the HT. I love them.


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## 749800 (Jul 14, 2013)

brex17 said:


> Down country is a stupid term made up by an idiot on another mountain bike website.
> It isn't a real term to "the industry" and the world would be a better place if people would stop using it.



While I agree with you that the term is as abhorrent a linguistic atrocity as "reach out" or "pre-board [the aircraft]" or "gifted," it looks to be that we are, once again, stuck with it now:

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/bikes/mountain-bikes/downcountry-mountain-bikes/c/B345/
Immediately makes me think of my favorite Scientologist.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

yourrealdad said:


> Do you really think that the bikes we ride today are just trendy versions of bikes from the late 90's and early 00's?
> 
> I would think and hope that you can realize that suspension, dropper posts, disc brakes, and most importantly geometry have changed drastically over the past 20 years. It didn't happen all at once, but with small tweaks and better understanding. Also large changes are typically not greeted well by consumers.
> 
> ...


kind of. they have not really opened up much more in terms of what is ridable. they have just made it more comfortable and honestly the biggest thing is they have made it easier. people with no skill can now ride trails and features that only the most skilled riders could do back in the day. look at early downhill, those guys were killing it on a absolute turd of a bike but they did it. the only reason we see the insane stuff now is because bikes have more suspension so the jumps and bumps have to be bigger. XC is a prime example, the bike got more and more capable so the tracks evolved and got rougher and more knarly so now we have bike with 120mm of travel and 34mm forks. so in 4-5 yrs tracks will get harder still and then bikes will evolve and then pretty soon we have EWS where the uphill part is timed as well.


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

Batcountry is riding without brakes. You can't stop, it's Batcountry.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Jefflinde said:


> kind of. they have not really opened up much more in terms of what is ridable. they have just made it more comfortable and honestly the biggest thing is they have made it easier. people with no skill can now ride trails and features that only the most skilled riders could do back in the day. look at early downhill, those guys were killing it on a absolute turd of a bike but they did it. the only reason we see the insane stuff now is because bikes have more suspension so the jumps and bumps have to be bigger. XC is a prime example, the bike got more and more capable so the tracks evolved and got rougher and more knarly so now we have bike with 120mm of travel and 34mm forks. so in 4-5 yrs tracks will get harder still and then bikes will evolve and then pretty soon we have EWS where the uphill part is timed as well.


I think this spends quite a bit of time contradicting itself. You're saying that it's not making things more rideable, then saying that we can do 'insane stuff' now because of the newer suspensions.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

Jayem said:


> It's not a "real" thing. It's just an long-forked XC bike.
> 
> Here's why:
> 
> ...


You're putting way too much thought into it. It is just a term jokingly coined by an MTB media guy. Companies are now using the term to market and categorize their bikes. Whether we like it or not. 

None of that matters. How bikes ride does.


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

rton20s said:


> You're putting way too much thought into it. It is just a term jokingly coined by an MTB media guy. Companies are now using the term to market and categorize their bikes. Whether we like it or not.
> 
> None of that matters. How bikes ride does.


As much as folks like to bash the term #downcountry, I think it's more descriptive than "trail". That's where we ride. All mountain bikes are trail bikes, right?


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

I'm going to take an all-mountain hardtail, then I'm going to underfork and over tire it, and call it under-country


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## Josh Patterson (Nov 23, 2005)

Redlands R&C said:


> I'm going to take an all-mountain hardtail, then I'm going to underfork and over tire it, and call it under-country


Over-tired is a category many folks can relate to.


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Josh Patterson said:


> As much as folks like to bash the term #downcountry, I think it's more descriptive than "trail". That's where we ride. All mountain bikes are trail bikes, right?


Yeah and a lot of DH racers call anything without a dual crown a trail bike, which makes sense honestly.


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## yourrealdad (May 17, 2012)

dysfunction said:


> I think this spends quite a bit of time contradicting itself. You're saying that it's not making things more rideable, then saying that we can do 'insane stuff' now because of the newer suspensions.


This


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## JerzyBoy (May 26, 2008)

All this new terminology. If someone asked what I ride I honestly wouldn’t even know how to answer at this point.


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## Thoreau (Jun 15, 2017)

Dunno when it'll happen, other than 'as soon as someone thinks it'll make money, or be good for a laugh'


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

JerzyBoy said:


> All this new terminology. If someone asked what I ride I honestly wouldn’t even know how to answer at this point.


You’d either say “a Santa Cruz Chameleon” or “my mountain bike.” Done.


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## JerzyBoy (May 26, 2008)

Nat said:


> You’d either say “a Santa Cruz Chameleon” or “my mountain bike.” Done.


Thats exactly what I do


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## VFR800Essex (Jun 18, 2021)

I had an old pair of bomber forks that you could change the travel from 120 mm to 160 mm, ATA. Do any manufactures still offer these types of fork?
This would sort ya problem of different terrain needs! Just a thought.

I'd go for an eBike, but my back would break getting it in and out of the back of the car every time i went for a ride!! ;-)


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

XC bikes have always been "up country". The problem is the recent shift towards steeper seat-tube angles in all other MTBs as a solution for 'better climbing'...for riders who can't put down the watts to climb in a bigger gear to begin with. XC'ers have already been climbing those sections 2x as fast before your seat-tube shifted forward 4+ degrees.

If you're not putting down the watts, you're just on a trail ride. There's plenty of bikes on the market for doing just that.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

VFR800Essex said:


> I'd go for an eBike, but my back would break getting it in and out of the back of the car every time i went for a ride!! ;-)


You don’t need a car if you have an ebike.
=sParty


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

What do Royals ride?

Crown Country


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## brex17 (Jan 31, 2019)

Nat said:


> You’d either say “a Santa Cruz Chameleon” or “my mountain bike.” Done.


I tell people I ride a Santa Cruz Chameleon, but then they look at me funny and ask why it says "Intense" on it.
So I reply by asking them if they know what a chameleon does.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

The bike you can take anywhere? That's the 'Rough Stuff' bike. Take a look at the British site https://www.rsf.org.uk 

A look through their photo gallery will show you what bike you need. 

For example...



Oh, it's any bike ... just need the right attitude.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Cruise Country is the newest classification
just saw it in General Discussion


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## TeeCee (Jan 7, 2021)

Velobike said:


> The bike you can take anywhere? That's the 'Rough Stuff' bike. Take a look at the British site https://www.rsf.org.uk
> 
> A look through their photo gallery will show you what bike you need.
> 
> ...


but she is not riding it, so obviously the wrong kind of bike.....


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

TeeCee said:


> but she is not riding it, so obviously the wrong kind of bike.....


The bike you can carry anywhere!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

VFR800Essex said:


> I wonder what made up products will be invented in 2022!!??
> 
> What will they re-invent in 2022 and up the price by 30%!!??
> 
> ...


$700 for two pulleys and a cage, wow, clearly I need a raise 😆

I’m building a new bike, Canfield Nimble 9, steel hardtail, using parts out of my bin, single speed, 27.5+, just a fun little bike for tricks and pump track, I gotta buy the frame, fork, and brakes. If I spend 2k on the whole thing I’d be surprised.

It’s a funny world we’ve created.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

TeeCee said:


> but she is not riding it, so obviously the wrong kind of bike.....


I've never seen anyone ride up a hill like that, so it is as right a bike as any other.

However all bikes get carried, it's just a question of where and when. She's has probably ridden it 20-30 miles to get it there instead of carrying it in a car and driving there.

I'll bet she then rode it on tracks that people think need full suspension XC bikes these days.
And more importantly she can still smile after carrying about 30lbs of bike that far up a steep hill.

A lot of natural trails do not connect but peter out. Then the choice is a relatively short hike-a-bike over a peak and join on to a trail on the other side or go all the way back down and round.

The scenery is always best from the top.

For me the ability to carry a bike comfortably is quite important when riding in the mountains. Here in Scotland we have the right to go anywhere so we don't have to stick to trails, which is why my favourite bikes tend to be light (as in no heavier than they have to be, but not flimsy), simple, and easy to carry. A short carry of the bike for a few miles can save a detour of 20-30 miles.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

bitflogger said:


> When will my calling the gravel bike my sh_tty road bike catch on?


Gravel bikes used to be called comfort bikes a decade or more ago. Slightly different geometry and wider tires. No one had road discs in those days.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Just wait for Pseudocountry to become a thing!


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## Redlands R&C (Dec 14, 2013)

BansheeRune said:


> Just wait for Pseudocountry to become a thing!


isn't that gravel riding?


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

Redlands R&C said:


> isn't that gravel riding?


Nobody really knows at this point since they are behind the curve and limited to down only...


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