# pavers



## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

have any of you used concrete pavers to harden up some sandy berms? home depot has some for $1.25 that are 12"x12"x1". we have several sandy berms that don't hold up very well. i thought maybe if we shaped the berm and then placed the pavers it might hold up better.


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## AJT (Nov 9, 2007)

use those decorative garden wall blocks








bury them and pack the holes with and mixture of sand and kitty litter. the face should just be visable


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

AJT said:


> bury them and pack the holes with and mixture of sand and kitty litter. the face should just be visable


The kitty litter has clay in it which acts as a binding agent for your sand.

Question to Mega, is all the soil at this trail system real sandy? i say that because in some areas you can walk an eighth of a mile away, dig down and find better soil.

Just throwing that out, AJT's advice is solid, and his recommendation for pavers is better i think. But if you can find free dirt and haul it over, you're looking at not much more work than hauling in, and placing pavers and kitty litter. Plus dirt is free...

And you probably won't have cats coming over and leaving turds on your berms haha!


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

i like the permeable pavers but they are pricey. it might be worth looking into though. there is some red clay/sand around but it's too far to haul or too deep to dig. chances are it would be just me doing it.


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## rustybkr (Mar 30, 2010)

seems like a good idea? I guess you don't have flat rocks around?


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## k2biker (Jan 13, 2004)

Check with a local paver contractor. We (SORBA Atlanta) stumbled upon one of our members who is a paver contractor and he just donated a trailer load of leftovers.


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## EXPERTRIDER (Feb 13, 2010)

*Check craigslist..*

I look at the free section of Craigslist for people giving away pavers or concrete. I just had a company donate 3 semi's FULL of concrete bags for trail building use! I've also used the larger 2' to 3' paver stones to create full berms that were in very sandy locations. It works great! Very durable and sustainable, and it eliminated a constant maintenance area for us. If you have a 501c3 setup, you can even provide a donation letter to help get the bigger donations from businesses.


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

thanks. i never think about craigslist for things like that.


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## Gardner (Oct 11, 2007)

We used some decorative pavers to repair a blown out section of new trail that had a 30% grade (no, we didn't design or build the trail). Started with a DG base, set the pavers with some anchored in by rebar and then filled the holes with DG. It's holding up well after a normal rainfall winter.


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

what is dg? how much were those pavers? that looks sweet.


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## Gardner (Oct 11, 2007)

Megashnauzer said:


> what is dg? how much were those pavers? that looks sweet.


Decomposed granite otherwise known in some parts as gravel. I think the pavers were like $6 each? Gottem at Home Depot but I have seen them on Craig's List too.


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## ajd245246 (Sep 1, 2008)

That looks awesome.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Z=Brick works pretty good also and you can see lots of them in some of the I-5 Colonnade videos on YouTube.


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## UncleTrail (Sep 29, 2007)

Have u tried Gorilla Snot? or some other soil binder?
http://www.gorilla-snot.com/

They use it on BMX tracks.

FWIW I think the pavers will be too small and light for bike traffic. Just my 2 cents.

UT


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

UncleTrail said:


> Have u tried Gorilla Snot? or some other soil binder?
> http://www.gorilla-snot.com/
> 
> They use it on BMX tracks.
> ...


For clay based tracks that stuff is pretty good, you can spray on a top coat and keep the clay from dusting off. On the other hand, if water gets thru it in spots it will erode underneath and you end up with potholes.

If you mix it in really well it will last for several years. I helped a local club "install" some of that stuff in sugar sand type trail conditions and we ended up mixing it in to about 4-6 inches deep. VERY labor intensive, but the trail is still strong 3 years later.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

http://soiltac.com/
Was used with some success up in Jonathan Dickenson State park....which was ALL sugar sand!


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## Megashnauzer (Nov 2, 2005)

we have horses on our trails so the soiltac probably wouldn't hold up.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Get a bigger gate!!


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## FloridaFish (Mar 29, 2004)

mtb777 said:


> http://soiltac.com/
> Was used with some success up in Jonathan Dickenson State park....which was ALL sugar sand!


that's the stuff, and that's the place. If you mix it into the soil deep enough I don't see why it wouldn't hold up a long time to horses.


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## rob_co2 (Apr 23, 2004)

I put down some flat, smooth steeping stones that were donated. Had a short steep roller climb that is strangely nothing but heavy sand as deep down as we can find. will have to see how it holds up in a week or so. 

Those decorative pavers look really nice, but yeah thats pricey


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## p3ripperfw (Feb 23, 2010)

do you know how much that stuff runs? Theres no prices on the net and I was wondering if you know what it cost



mtb777 said:


> http://soiltac.com/
> Was used with some success up in Jonathan Dickenson State park....which was ALL sugar sand!


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

mtb777 said:


> Z=Brick works pretty good also and you can see lots of them in some of the I-5 Colonnade videos on YouTube.


We didn't use very much brick at all. We used Turfstone Pavers, you can google em up. We also used quite a bit of old Sandstone Pavers. They were shipped in from China 80 years ago, and made up quite a bit of the old city and neighborhood roads in Seattle. There are still a number of roads near the I-5 Colonnade where that is still the road surface. Anyways we were fortunate enough to collect a great number of these pavers and use them for many applications in the park. They are by far the greatest all purpose reinforced riding surface that i know of.

Here is a beginner downhill practice feature i created with the Sandstone pavers with some Limestones separating 2 heights, and with a Turfstone run out. The Sandstone provide a grippy ride surface even in wet conditions, the Turfstone is used to prevent erosion from people who skid in the run-out.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Skookum said:


> We didn't use very much brick at all. We used Turfstone Pavers, you can google em up. We also used quite a bit of old Sandstone Pavers. They were shipped in from China 80 years ago, and made up quite a bit of the old city and neighborhood roads in Seattle. There are still a number of roads near the I-5 Colonnade where that is still the road surface. Anyways we were fortunate enough to collect a great number of these pavers and use them for many applications in the park. They are by far the greatest all purpose reinforced riding surface that i know of.
> 
> Here is a beginner downhill practice feature i created with the Sandstone pavers with some Limestones separating 2 heights, and with a Turfstone run out. The Sandstone provide a grippy ride surface even in wet conditions, the Turfstone is used to prevent erosion from people who skid in the run-out.


Your Turfstone is our Z-Brick! That's it at the bottom, right?


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## p3ripperfw (Feb 23, 2010)

MTB 777 do you know how much that soil stabilizer runs?


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## Skookum (Jan 17, 2005)

mtb777 said:


> Your Turfstone is our Z-Brick! That's it at the bottom, right?


Yup we bought them by the pallet... They are big beasts of concrete. Great for reinforcing a tread base, but for fall lines you can't beat the Sandstone grippy surface, just like sandpaper.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

I sent out an email to get pricing...what area are you in?


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## EXPERTRIDER (Feb 13, 2010)

It's probably the most expensive concrete paver out there! New, I think it costs around $6/square foot! I don't see any advantage to the turf-pavers. In my experience, the largest square pavers are the best, and they provide a safe and durable trail surface. They are also the easiest to find used!! I've had many people give us 100+ pavers at a time! That covers a LOT of bad trail (fall-lines, sugar-sand, deep mud, etc...)


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## p3ripperfw (Feb 23, 2010)

We use the large square pavers quite a bit on our trails as well...mostly we use them on lips and in soft areas leading up to jumps where we want to keep the ground from rutting to maintain the transition and speed into the lips. I bet they would work great on a berm is they were put in correctly.



EXPERTRIDER said:


> It's probably the most expensive concrete paver out there! New, I think it costs around $6/square foot! I don't see any advantage to the turf-pavers. In my experience, the largest square pavers are the best, and they provide a safe and durable trail surface. They are also the easiest to find used!! I've had many people give us 100+ pavers at a time! That covers a LOT of bad trail (fall-lines, sugar-sand, deep mud, etc...)


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## p3ripperfw (Feb 23, 2010)

I live in Texas near the Dallas/ Fort Worth metroplex.



mtb777 said:


> I sent out an email to get pricing...what area are you in?


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## taffy15 (Nov 24, 2004)

*Decorative Blocks*

I did the trail fix for the rangers who couldn't think of a reasonable fix for that terrible fall line. The "pavers" aren't really pavers but actually are decorative block you see on top of cinder block walls. They are 12x12 and 4 inches thick. They are good for foot and bike traffic but would break under the weight of horses. So they are cheap,not $6 each. I left a grout line between each one. Decomposed granite was used to fill them in with a broom. Once they are wetted the decomposed granite is like mortar. Super grippy and durable. One of my helpers tried using rebar to anchor them and cracked two pavers so I had him stop. Once wetted they are locked in just fine. You don't need rebar.

We had some tree huggers complain they weren't natural material but when I started on that fall line it had grown to over eight feet wide and it was less then 6 months old. So they were a great compromise for a fix offering durability and functionality.


Gardner said:


> Decomposed granite otherwise known in some parts as gravel. I think the pavers were like $6 each? Gottem at Home Depot but I have seen them on Craig's List too.


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## mtb777 (Nov 6, 2005)

Kevin,

Thank you for inquiring about Soilworks' line of soil stabilizing and dust control products. I would recommend Soiltac for treating and maintaining your trails. I have attached a PDF for Soiltac for you to print out and reference. It includes an application rate chart, application overview, MSDS and other important product information.

The standard application rate for walking/biking paths is 1 gal/100 sf with a 1:10 dilution. We offer product in 55 gal drums and 275 gal totes. Price per gallon is $8.70.

I would be happy to discuss a specific application or applications. Please contact me with any additional question that you may have about product or application or to place an order. Thank you.

Respectfully,

Hailey Riley

Sales Representative

SOILWORKS®, LLC
(Manufacturer of Soiltac®, Powdered Soiltac®, Gorilla-Snot®, & Durasoil®)

Specializing in Soil Stabilization, Erosion Control and Dust Control

2450 S Gilbert Rd, Suite 210, Chandler, AZ 85286-1595 USA

(800) 545-5420 ext. 3209 Toll Free
(480) 289-3209 Direct
(480) 545-5456 Fax
(480) 707-7529 Mobile

[email protected]
www.Soilworks.com

www.linkedin.com/pub/hailey-balcaen/a/6a0/6a6


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## UncleTrail (Sep 29, 2007)

mtb777 said:


> The standard application rate for walking/biking paths is 1 gal/100 sf with a 1:10 dilution. We offer product in 55 gal drums and 275 gal totes. Price per gallon is $8.70.
> www.linkedin.com/pub/hailey-balcaen/a/6a0/6a6


For a 2' wide trail that would be $0.18 a linear foot. Far cheaper than pavers I imagine?
Plus Hailey is a cute blonde... I'm sold.

UT


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