# Magicshine MJ-870 & MJ-872 review :).



## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

It is a short version of my review - for some people it will be just enough (who the heal reads playboy ?? ) 
for others here is the full version (*all beam-shots and measurements*) *=>* Magicshine MJ-870 and MJ-872 - magic 1000+ lumens from 3 and 4 Cree XP-G leds. :thumbsup:

*Some marketing data.*









Close up : 









A bit closer 









Very close...









Total show off :









*How does it light ?*

Assuming that I did not get jumbled up during the measurements and that the Chinese did not insert there the possible worst Cree XP-G leds, but only the most popular R4, in theory, on the leds, you should get 1400 and 1050 lumens so that, in both cases, the lights exceed the magic limit of 1000 lumens. However, frankly, if you add circa 10% loss across the optics, you will have 1250 and 950 only but this is still a lot of light :thumbsup:. Well, of course, the weakest mode has 20% instead of 30, but the Chinese light users have got used to such trifles already :madman:.

Magicshine MJ-808 - SSC P7 (high ca. 600 lumens)









Magicshine MJ-808E Cree XM-L (high, ca. 750 lumens)









Magicshine MJ-870 - high (100%, ca. 950 lumens)









Magicshine MJ-872 - high (100%, ca. 1250 lumens)









*Resume.*

The new lights, the new quality, a lot of light. I tested MJ-872 in a fight, arranging and winding up the route of the night competition for orientation; the 300+ lumens on the low mode were completely enough for me to move on broken-stone roads; I switched on the maximum mode once, perhaps most probably in order to see how it would be . What does it give in practice ? On the single battery pack, you may ride for 10 hours !. The optics of the distribution angle circa 20* illuminates ideally the road before the bike. To put into words simply, after the tests, the 4-unit stays with me (after replacement of the cables, thermo paste, lubricating of all gaskets and threads with silicone grease and accurate tightening; at last, its Chinese stuff  ).


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

Nice! That looks pretty sweet. Just so it's posted here, looks like street price is around $200 for the 4 emitter version. While that is getting out of the cheapo semi-disposable price range, it's still pretty amazing for the amount and quality of light, and running weight. 

The three emitter one is going for $126 at Dealextreme (but DX sucks serious rocks through a rope for customer service). 

*edit*

Oh, the 4 element version is $146 at DX. 

Not sure I would run out to upgrade to it form my MJ808, since I don't seem to night ride enough to justify it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

About the beam shots....What are the distances to the various markers? What camera settings were used? Only reason I'm asking is because Geoman didn't like the beam pattern of the 872 but from what I'm seeing here it looks pretty good ( depending on the marker distances of course )


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Very nice write up.:thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

not that i expect any of these type of lights to be waterproof, but i wonder how this would stand up to the type of testing catman did with the ray4?


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> About the beam shots....What are the distances to the various markers? What camera settings were used?


Those are my standard settings, for the last few years... 

In the room : 
ISO 200, time 1/8s, aperture 3.5, manual white balance (daylight).
Distance from the wall 3.0 m - the distance of the camera from the wall 3.0 m (the wall - white matt emulsion)

The gravel path: 
ISO 200, time 2s, aperture 3.5, manual white balance (daylight).
Markers spaced every 5 meters, lamps aimed at the 10 meter.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

nick d said:


> not that i expect any of these type of lights to be waterproof, but i wonder how this would stand up to the type of testing catman did with the ray4?


Yes, I was thinking the same thing. Dominik, any chance you can throw the light body under a shower head ( 15-20 min. ) at close distance ( 6" or less )? Since you already have it dismantled you don't have to include the Leds or electronics ( a big advantage ).

Nick, Don't be surprised if these fair better than the Ray IV. The back plate and button looks much different. Dominik, does the rear of the light include an O-ring? How was it sealed?

About the the beam photo's: Okay I did the conversion, 65.5 ft. at the last marker. For some reason I thought it was longer. Still a nice wide beam pattern that does look to carry a bit further beyond the markers. Real important to point out though that both the 808 and 808E will easily out throw the markers ( x 2 ) if aimed higher ( as they are both spot beam oriented lamps ).

Oh, almost forgot...I was going to comment about the 10 hr run time you quoted but I now see you are posting a chart that shows 2.2hrs on high. Since this light offers 4 distinct modes, any way you can show some photos of the 70% and 50%.beam patterns...:yesnod:... For us folks that like lower modes that would be a big plus.


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Dominik, does the rear of the light include an O-ring? How was it sealed?


There is the same seal as in the front - but the most problematic is the switch cover - it's not tight enough to be waterproof (and it can't be because it's too big and too soft) so I sealed it using silicon grease for torches. There is also no seal around cable where it enters into the case - here I use silicone sealant. So now I can put it even under water for 1/2 hour to check if it meats IPX7 requirements 












Cat-man-do said:


> Since this light offers 4 distinct modes, any way you can show some photos of the 70% and 50%.beam patterns...:yesnod:... For us folks that like lower modes that would be a big plus.


All other beam-shots are available at my site - but nobody reads


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## Azra (May 20, 2011)

Dominik.M said:


> the most problematic is the switch cover - it's not tight enough to be waterproof (and it can't be because it's too big and too soft) so I sealed it using silicon grease for torches. There is also no seal around cable where it enters into the case - here I use silicone sealant. So now I can put it even under water for 1/2 hour to check if it meats IPX7 requirements


It just totally boggles my mind why you guys think it's acceptable to spend $150 on a light and then have to perform some DIY handiwork to make it waterproof?

And why are you posting this review in this forum? Shouldn't it be in the DIY forum? This light, as it leaves the factory, is not suited for anybody that takes their riding seriously.

On another note, is it me or does it look like both the Magicshine and the BikeRay are built in the same factory using pretty much the same design?


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

Azra said:


> On another note, is it me or does it look like both the Magicshine and the BikeRay are built in the same factory?


Light and Go Foride = Magicshine MJ-856 = Magicshine MJ-872 in more fancy looking case.










Light and Go Firefly = Magicshine MJ-858


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## Azra (May 20, 2011)

So, Dominik, are you saying, "_Look at the shiny case and ignore the waterproofing?_" Is that it?


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

No, but basically if you want IPX7-8 Bike lamp you have to pay for it much more than 140 $, and not always you will get it, because producers these days are calculating "how many users are riding for 5-6 hours in the rain" -> 2-5% ? Ok, Then how much it will cost us to make our lamp waterproof ? 30% ?? :nono: No, thank you... 

That why most producers of the outdoor equipment are currently producing water resistant IPX4 lamps / headlamps.  They may even meet the requirement's of the higher protection levels but nobody will declare that


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

Azra said:


> It just totally boggles my mind why you guys think it's acceptable to spend $150 on a light and then have to perform some DIY handiwork to make it waterproof?
> 
> And why are you posting this review in this forum? Shouldn't it be in the DIY forum? This light, as it leaves the factory, is not suited for anybody that takes their riding seriously.
> 
> On another note, is it me or does it look like both the Magicshine and the BikeRay are built in the same factory using pretty much the same design?


Azra, I can only speak for myself as an owner of magicshines and a ray2, but i dont expect any cheap Chinese light to be waterproof. even if they blatantly advertised it as waterproof to a certain depth like some other manufacturers id be very skeptical. And even though the ray 3/4 and these magishines are more than the original magicshines, they are still 'cheap lights' compared to a light with simillar output from a 'better' manufacturer.

I dont understand the ip ratings, but if they are not living up to that there is no excuse for false advertising, but it would not suprise me since it seems most all the Chinese manufacturers and vendors of those lights seem to have adopted the practice of overstating the output in lumens...

I guess you could say you have to compare Output vs Ruggedness vs Price and pick the light that has the two you need, cause at this price it seems you cant have all three. 

The reason i can accept that these lights are not waterproof is that as a recreational rider i can generally avoid serious rain storms by just staying in and riding another night, which is an option that if i remember right you dont have since you use it for commuting also?

It defiantly sounds like you will be better off with something like the stryker from baja designs even if it means you have to sacrifice some output in exchange for durability. In fact a while back he had a trade in deal, it might be worth checking to see if they still do.

Im glad you have been so vocal about your experience because it will no doubt help people choose the light that is best for them. :thumbsup:


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## Azra (May 20, 2011)

nick d said:


> i dont expect any cheap Chinese light to be waterproof.


I could perhaps accept that a $79 Magicshine is cheap. But when you get in the $150-200 price range, that's not cheap. Cheaper than more established brands, yes, but not cheap.

People that find $200 cheap would probably be buying a Lupine anyway.


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

Azra said:


> I could perhaps accept that a $79 Magicshine is cheap. But when you get in the $150-200 price range, that's not cheap. Cheaper than more established brands, yes, but not cheap.
> 
> People that find $200 cheap would probably be buying a Lupine anyway.


$150 to $200 is certainly nothing you want to throw away, and its much more painful to throw away a $200 light than an $80 light, but the Lupine equivelant is what a Wilma5 for $595? IM sure its a much better light, and its probably not a truly fair comparision, but the cheapest Lupine i saw on geomans website was the Piko for $310 and im sure it doesnt put out the same amount of light as a ray3/4 or these new magicshines.

Anyway, im not trying to argue, just saying there's a reason some vendors sell both lines


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

Azra said:


> I could perhaps accept that a $79 Magicshine is cheap. But when you get in the $150-200 price range, that's not cheap. Cheaper than more established brands, yes, but not cheap.
> 
> People that find $200 cheap would probably be buying a Lupine anyway.


For such lights as MS, Floride, BR etc, the increase in price from say US$79 (single P7) to $150++ (quad XPG) has got little to do with manufacturing quality but simply the optics, emitters and circuit boards they are using in the light head itself. Everything else remains as is unfortunately. I do agree that having to open up light heads and perform ER as in the BikeRay IV thread is more than I'd want to do but waterproofing seals and threads with grease etc is acceptable in my books.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dominik.M said:


> There is the same seal as in the front - but the most problematic is the switch cover - it's not tight enough to be waterproof (and it can't be because it's too big and too soft) so I sealed it using silicon grease for torches. There is also no seal around cable where it enters into the case - here I use silicone sealant. So now I can put it even under water for 1/2 hour to check if it meats IPX7 requirements


Dominik, Thanks again for the pictures of the back plate. This looks like the inside of the back plate ( if I'm not mistaken ). At least it has an O-ring. There also looks like a secondary O-ring (?). I don't know about anyone else but after my experience with the Ray IV seeing some O-rings inspires confidence. It remains to be seen though just how well these rubber buttons can hold out water. At least with the MS 872 it is larger and might have more wiggle room. If true it might work better ( or in this case be a much easier fix ). Was it hard to get the back off? What tool was required and how was it done?

What you said about the water-resistance of these kinds of lights is likely true. I think once you market something as "water-proof" you almost have to charge more money because the product will be held to a much higher standard and will cost more to produce. Not to mention it makes a great selling point for the vendors.

In keeping with that thought, in the case of the _Baja Stryke_r, since the design was so well thought out you are going to get much better water-resistance ( if not an out right water-proof quality level ). Need I say, the Stryker is much more money than other P-7 bike lights. Still with all that said I think I might be willing to pay another 20% for a typical Chinese light that was designed to be completely water-proof. Whither that will happen anytime soon is anyone's guess.


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## Azra (May 20, 2011)

I don't get it. If all it takes is a smidge of grease to make those lights waterproof, why isn't that done at the factory?

Surely $0.01 of grease would not increase the manufacturing cost by 30%.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

Azra said:


> I don't get it. If all it takes is a smidge of grease to make those lights waterproof, why isn't that done at the factory?
> 
> Surely $0.01 of grease would not increase the manufacturing cost by 30%.


At some point I think your getting obsessive about the MS stuff. I think the whole point of 'Azra doesnt like them' was made pretty well....

I bet soon enough though, the aforementioned problems will be addressed overseas. 
CDT


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## Azra (May 20, 2011)

Quite to the contrary, I'd like nothing better than to see Magicshine and BikeRay produce lights that are well designed, powerful, cheap, and waterproof. I'd love it. And I'd gladly buy one.

I'm not a fool that craves status symbols to show off at the next group ride. Nor am I loaded with money. I'd much rather buy a $200 light from MS or BR than a $700 light from Light and Motion. Or even a $400 light from DiNotte.

But if MS and BR produce lights that are crap and will die on me the first time it rains (as the BR IV has done so ignominiously), then... well, the lights are crap. I like to call things what they are. And if it offends fans of MS and BR, then so be it.

If we were to all tell MS and BR "_your lights are crap_" maybe they'd get the message and actually start using some grease and silicone sealant in the final assembly. But as long as we have apologists saying "_it's really no big deal_", "_you can seal it yourself with a little grease if you like_", "_who rides in the rain anyway?_", etc, then MS and BR will continue to sell crap. And established manufacturers will continue to sell us grossly overpriced products. I don't like that.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Dominik.M said:


> Light and Go Foride = Magicshine MJ-856 = Magicshine MJ-872 in more fancy looking case.


Perhaps with a tighter optic?


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Was it hard to get the back off? What tool was required and how was it done?.


It was easy to unscrew - it only take me some time to understood how do they put it all together, because I get used to typical torch design...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Chromagftw said:


> For such lights as MS, Floride, BR etc, the increase in price from say US$79 (single P7) to $150++ (quad XPG) has got little to do with manufacturing quality but simply the optics, emitters and circuit boards they are using in the light head itself. Everything else remains as is unfortunately.* I do agree that having to open up light heads and perform ER as in the BikeRay IV thread is more than I'd want to do but waterproofing seals and threads with grease etc is acceptable in my books.*


About the last part, I agree. If I had known going in what the real problem with the Ray IV was ( the rear plate threads/ lack of O-ring ) I could of simply found a suitable O-ring, slipped in over the top and slapped on some sealant without even having to completely remove the plate. Unfortunately I thought the biggest problem was the button cover. While it could still be a problem it was not the problem I originally thought it was. As such it would have been better if I had not taken the back of the light off. Anyway, don't want to venture too much off topic...

In the case of the MS 872 the design of the rear plate is much different. As such my bet is that it will be much better at shedding water than the Ray IV. Since it has already been modded by the OP no real way to know for sure unless he has another one to fiddle with.

As for the optics, I could wish for more throw but than again I always do. 
At 2hrs on high the run time lacks and if you power down to lower levels the throw will suffer even more. I think for this light a bigger battery is in order ( 5200mAh or more ) Two and half hours run time on high would be an improvement but 3hrs would be preferable.

Znomit, any links to beam shots of the MS 856?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Dominik - was there any thermal paste between that ribbed outer heatsink and the main casing? Did you run the light before dismantling to see how well the light heated up? If there wasn't any thermal paste, it would be a good idea to put some in, even if the light head has some kind of thermal management.

Oh, and were you able to measure the current the LEDs were being driven at? The power figures quoted imply they're being driven above 1A, so there may be _some_ grounds for their output claims


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

anybody know if these optics would work with the 4 led version: http://www.cutter.com.au/cart.php?rp=proddetail.php?prod=cut1000

somebody posted the link on dx, but i guess someone with the light would have to take some measurements to make sure?

edit: actually i found some measurements above, looks like its too small?


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Chromagftw said:


> For such lights as MS, Floride, BR etc, the increase in price from say US$79 (single P7) to $150++ (quad XPG) has got little to do with manufacturing quality but simply the optics, emitters and circuit boards they are using in the light head itself.


I doubt the components increase the cost that much - quad XP-G boards from reputable sellers are ~$30 at retail. The increase over a C-bin P7 at bulk is probably ~$15 at most. Optic isn't more than a couple of bucks (and excessively floody by the looks of it) and I doubt the driver is any better built than the cheap jobs they put in the other MS lights. The fancier case probably adds $5 bulk at a very rough guess.

With bike lights, more lumens = more money (like cars), even though it really doesn't cost much more to build. Look at L&M Seca 700 and 1400 - the only difference is 3 more cells in the battery and a reprogrammed driver. Or a 1800+lm light I just built for $20 more than a ~400lm commuter light. It's just market segmentation and profit margin.


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> Dominik - was there any thermal paste between that ribbed outer heatsink and the main casing? Did you run the light before dismantling to see how well the light heated up?


There is no thermal paste, but the parts are pretty tight match => 65,9*C in mcpcb and 56,7*C on the case... :thumbsup:



mattthemuppet said:


> Oh, and were you able to measure the current the LEDs were being driven at? The power figures quoted imply they're being driven above 1A, so there may be _some_ grounds for their output claims


You can find every information here : Magicshine MJ-872 review


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

Washed my bike after a wet ride with my MJ-872 on and no issues last night. All i have done it check and re screw on the front cover and replace the mount with electron one, with silicone seal.  

Im really happy with mine, with a XML on my helmet its a great combo, used it with a XML torch on Bars last night too, which was really good, gave the throw that the 872 lacks while still having a big pool of light upto 60 feet in front of bike.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Dominik.M said:


> There is no thermal paste, but the parts are pretty tight match => 65,9*C in mcpcb and 56,7*C on the case... :thumbsup:


It would still be better with thermal paste, believe me.



Dominik.M said:


> You can find every information here : Magicshine MJ-872 review


I wonder why they run the triple XP-G as a parallel setup with a buck driver, when they could use the same boost driver as the quad XP-G (even on low, a series triple would be 0.6-1V above the max voltage of the battery)? Seems like an odd decision, especially as the boost driver appears more efficient in this case and they would only have to produce 1 driver.


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## Dominik.M (Sep 21, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> It would still be better with thermal paste, believe me.


Believe me, I know 



mattthemuppet said:


> Seems like an odd decision, especially as the boost driver appears more efficient in this case and they would only have to produce 1 driver.


They already have the buck driver and they need it for their XM-L  The buck version is probably a few cents cheaper...


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Dominik.M said:


> Believe me, I know


Good. Glad we got that willy waving issue over and done with.



Dominik.M said:


> They already have the buck driver and they need it for their XM-L  The buck version is probably a few cents cheaper...


Guess so. Just seems a bit odd - I don't know of any other light (the L&M Seca perhaps) that runs LEDs in parallel strings.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> Guess so. Just seems a bit odd - I don't know of any other light (the L&M Seca perhaps) that runs LEDs in parallel strings.


That's because it's not a good design practice. Especially when the different LEDs are not really closely thermally coupled inside a single package like a P7 or MCE. You can't guarantee that the current will split evenly between the multiple LEDs.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Back with some comments about the optics on the MJ-872. Well it didn't take Magicshine long to figure out that people were not happy with the original optics. After looking at the MS website tonight it seems they are now offering the 872 with a clear optic over the emitters ( with frosting of the lens in between the emitters ). Not sure how that will change the beam pattern though. This is the same technique that Bikeray uses on the Bikeray III. I guess this means some new updated beam shots are in order if you think you might like the new set-up.


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## pangpang77 (Aug 5, 2011)

Anyone been able to compare the MJ-872 with the Bikeray IV?


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## boudreaux_45 (May 8, 2006)

I bought the 872 this weekend (actually exchanged it from 808e) and tried it out last night. Its definitely brighter than the 808 and is excellent up close for flood use. I doubt there is anything at this pricepoint that comes close to this thing. However, the spot use is still lacking and I'm sure this could be adjusted by altering the light. The flood is actually so bright though that you kind of forget about the lacking spot. I've ridden with a Niterider HID Moab for the last few years and typically ride solo with one helmet mounted light. I really liked the Niterider but its troubling that a $600 light lasted only 3 years so I don't think I'm going to deal with them any longer. Ideally, I would like to adjust this so I could get a better spot - any ideas?


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

I bought an 872 from Dealextreme and it has the new glass, but I can't really compare with the old glass. The light couldn't be better for what I need - I ride rocky technical trails and really need the flood beam.

The problem is *overheating.* I live in Phoenix, and my summer night rides are often 100 degrees when I start at 8:30pm. On my last ride, I ran the light on next to lowest power (50% I think) and it had to shut down to the lowest power a few times to cool off. It was really quite annoying - even bombing down a hill it turned itself down.

It looks like I can return it for DX for an exchange, but I'm wondering if it's just the design, and if it would be worthwhile for me to try to put some thermal paste on the inside of the heatsink ring. If so, how do you unscrew that lockring? Looks like it takes a special tool.

Anyway, any advice you have would be helpful. Thanks.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dobbs said:


> I bought an 872 from Dealextreme and it has the new glass, but I can't really compare with the old glass. The light couldn't be better for what I need - I ride rocky technical trails and really need the flood beam.
> 
> *The problem is overheating. I live in Phoenix, and my summer night rides are often 100 degrees when I start at 8:30pm. On my last ride, I ran the light on next to lowest power (50% I think) and it had to shut down to the lowest power a few times to cool off. It was really quite annoying - even bombing down a hill it turned itself down. *
> 
> ...


Wow...that's a real bummer. XP-G's do get very hot though. The only real option you might have would be to disconnect the thermal monitoring. Doing that would likely bake the led's and shorten their useful life but sadly you might not have any other better option. At least the light is not so expensive that if you burn it out it won't cost too much to replace it. Now just what you have to do to disconnect the thermal monitoring...I have no idea. :idea:

This issue has me wondering just how well the Bikeray IV would hold up under those conditions. I'm really not sure if the BR IV has thermal monitoring but if it does the LED's it uses is the newer Rebel ES series that is designed to handle heat a little better. Anyway, food for thought.

A while back I came up with an idea that might help someone that had heat issues. Basically my idea was to design a light that had a compartment behind the heat sink that could be used to store small pieces of dry ice. In essence this would keep the light cool ( very cool at that ) using CO*2. Dry ice can usually be easily obtained from various places. Where I work we have the "nugget" form readily available. ( which means I can get it for free... ) You would have to have the light modded for CO*2 use though. To prevent explosion it would have to have some small vents. In theory I think a couple of the small nuggets should last at least two or three hrs. Need I say, Dry ice is super cold and will actual burn you if you touch it. No telling what it would do to electronic components if directly exposed to the evaporated CO*2....Anyway, more food for thought.

In the long run you might be better just running two cheap ( D/X cheap ) Standard MagicShines on low ( on the bars with a Y-cable ) and using the combined light to get you by. ( or option B ) Run your current light on low or mid low and use a cheap P-7 or XM-L torch ( which has no thermal monitoring ) to supplement the 872. ( which is what I would probably do ). Hope this helps. Cat.


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

I'm surprised Cat - given your previous experience I thought you might have suggested water cooling


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## Azra (May 20, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> A while back I came up with an idea that might help someone that had heat issues. Basically my idea was to design a light that had a compartment behind the heat sink that could be used to store small pieces of dry ice. In essence this would keep the light cool ( very cool at that ) using CO*2. Dry ice can usually be easily obtained from various places. Where I work we have the "nugget" form readily available. ( which means I can get it for free... ) You would have to have the light modded for CO*2 use though. To prevent explosion [:eekster: ut:] it would have to have some small vents. In theory I think a couple of the small nuggets should last at least two or three hrs. Need I say, Dry ice is super cold and will actual burn you if you touch it. No telling what it would do to electronic components if directly exposed to the evaporated CO*2....Anyway, more food for thought.


Cat man, you're giving Wile E. Coyote a run for his money! 

Hold it right there, please, while I go fetch the popcorn. This is gonna be good. :ihih:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I also live in the Phoenix area and run a BikeRay IV on the bars and a MS808e on my helmet. So far the BR IV has worked perfectly (although I wouldn't know otherwise unless it just quit) with one exception. I tried running both lights on the bar with a y connector and one Goeman 6ah battery and both battery life indicators turned red and the thermal monitoring on the 808 head kicked in. Everything went back to normal when I turned one of the lights off. Different current draw on the light heads, too much power draw, too small wire guage on the y connector, or maybe some safety feature on the battery? I don't know but I do know it wasn't overheating.
I am interested in how the MS872 compares with my BR IV. I initially tried to order a LIGHTnGO foride with no luck. Maybe someone can do a beamshot comparison?


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

So, to follow up, I mounted a dry ice cooler on it last night and it blew up in my face, but the exploding MagicShine battery offset the ice explosion....

Actually, I did ride with it last night and it went a lot better. It was a few degrees cooler oustide and I kept the light cool in the house until it was time to leave, instead of mounted to the bike in the hot garage like last time. Then I ran it on the 50% setting most of the time, which is more than enough light. It did reduce power twice, but that's a lot better than the last time I was out. 

I figured out how to remove the end caps with spread open needle nose pliers and I plan to replace the thermal paste on the led pcb and also add some to the inside of the heatsink ring so heat can transfer better. 

Since you guys sound interested, I will follow up.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dobbs said:


> .... Then I ran it on the 50% setting most of the time, which is more than enough light. It did reduce power twice, but that's a lot better than the last time I was out.
> 
> I figured out how to remove the end caps with spread open needle nose pliers and I plan to replace the thermal paste on the led pcb and also add some to the inside of the heatsink ring so heat can transfer better.
> 
> Since you guys sound interested, I will follow up.


Let us know how well it does once you mod the heat sink.

*Find Bruce* said:


> I'm surprised Cat - given your previous experience I thought you might have suggested water cooling.


*Bruce:* That idea has already been talked about on forum as has fan cooling. No one has built a water cooled light but someone DID build a fan cooled light. I thought CO*2 cooling was a novel idea as it requires no power source. (** and for the truly skilled, an adaption using CO*2 air cartridges would be interesting ) Keep in mind folks this is just an idea in passing for the DIY'ers who like to try ( or hear about ) new original ideas. Personally I have no need for such a light but if I lived in a desert I would consider it if I had no other options. It wouldn't have to look good - just work. ....Yes, I know Bruce, you were just being funny. :thumbsup: Once again, if I had to ride it that kind of heat it would likely kill me anyway. 

*MrMole* said:


> I also live in the Phoenix area and run a BikeRay IV on the bars and a MS808e on my helmet. So far the BR IV has worked perfectly (although I wouldn't know otherwise unless it just quit) with one exception. I tried running both lights on the bar with a y connector and one Goeman 6ah battery and both battery life indicators turned red and the thermal monitoring on the 808 head kicked in. Everything went back to normal when I turned one of the lights off...


Glad to hear the Bikeray IV can handle the heat. :thumbsup: Not much rain out that way so you should be good.
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me that the 6.0 battery would have problems running both lights. Did you try using the original Bikeray battery with the Y-connector? You might have to go with a 6-cell battery.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Hi Dobbs,
I've been thinking about your lights problem and I think if I were you I'd return it for a new head before you try modifying it. Maybe there's something wrong with the thermal monitor in your light. I know several people who ride T100 with dual 808e's
on single speeds (which keeps the speeds low) and between us I'm the only one who's had the termal monitor kick down the light (the y-cable thing). My BR IV (which I always run on high) at least has the same emitters as yor 872 and runs cooler to the touch than
than my 808e. Maybe your thermal monitor is just kicking in too soon. Anyway you shouldn't have to run your light at 50% power to get it to work right! Good luck.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> ....My BR IV (which I always run on high) at least has the same emitters as yor 872 and runs cooler to the touch than
> than my 808e. Maybe your thermal monitor is just kicking in too soon. Anyway you shouldn't have to run your light at 50% power to get it to work right! Good luck.


Judging from the MS 872 review done by Dominik the 872 is built quite differently from the Bikeray IV. The heat sink on the BR IV is connected directly to the outer shell while the MS 872 uses some sort of sleeve assembly. That being the case I'm not sure how well the heat is transferring to the outer shell of the MS. Plus the MS 872 is using Cree XP-G's vs. the BR IV's use of the Philips/Luxeon Rebel ES emitters. XPG emitters get very hot. The Rebel ES emitters have different thermal characteristics that enable them to handle heat a little better. This might give the BR IV a better performance edge in a warmer environment. Of course something could be wrong with the light that Dobbs has but we can't really know for sure unless there are other 872's to compare it to in the same environment.


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

OK, so my follow up after a few more rides with the mj-872 is positive. I dismantled the light head and added some high quality thermal paste to the back of the LED pcb that contacts the metal frame. Then I slid the heat fin "ring" as far back as a I could without having the remove the wires. (The dude that completely took it part for the review above removed the wires, which allowed complete removal of the ring) Since I wasn't able to access the entire underside of the heat fin ring, I spread some paste around underneath where it would be slid into place for better heat conducting. 

So I then tightened the whole thing back down. In the process I overtightened the front retaining ring and cracked the lens/reflector. Duh. That made me feel dumb. It still worked fine with the cracks and I contacted MagicShine directly and ordered a replacement.

I have done two night rides in similar heat to my previous rides, unfortunately. I ran the light at the 50% power the entire rides without any power downs for cooling. The light is so good at that level that I would be happy even if it didn't go any higher when it's hot out. I will try higher levels on future rides, but I feel satisfied with the light now. Would I buy it again over a BikeRay 4? Not sure. I wish the BikeRay had more levels besides high and low... That's probably the only thing that would hold me back. 

All this being said, the flood light nature of the light is outstanding. With this light I can clean stuff on my local rocky trails that I wasn't with my previous lights. I will never again ride without a flood type light for mountain biking... I hope.


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

Follow up #2 - I rode last night with the mj-872 and it was way hot. Hotter than the other rides I've done with it - it was 105 on my truck's thermometer when I left at 8:40. I kept the light on 50% for the climbs and 75% for the downhill and faster moving stuff and it was fine. I was also careful to turn it off whenever I stopped, even for a minute. 

I moved it up to 75% on the climb and it did overheat and drop down, but honestly, the 75% is unnecessary on a slow climb. I also set it at 100% for some fast downhills and then turned it down after the downhill. There's not a huge light output difference between 75 and 100. 

To repeat my comments about how nice it is for technical stuff, I cleaned my local 20 minute techy climb last night - something I've done in the day, but never at night before.

I'd buy it again, though probably from Geoman this time for a few different reasons.

Happy Trails.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

Cross post from a different thread. Just posted here since the description of the thread is more along the lines of my review.

This for road-based use:

First Impressions, more to follow once I get a few rides in:

I was going to compare along side my preferred helmet light (Dinotte 400L) but I leant it out and could not get it here in time to shoot pics with it. But my experience is that the MS900 dwarfs the 400L in the hotspot and by my eyes is about 2x the light making the 400L more like 300 lumens (assuming the MS900 is around 600)

I used to MTB but kids and convenience trump my will to ride in the dark on the trail. So what you have here is what I would see most nights (city/suburb surface streets). Take my shots and my opinion with a grain of salt.

IMHO, road riding demands more, not less light than off-road. Competing car lights, any kind of wet surface, and streetlights severly impeed my ability to ID obsticles and find clean tarmac. Riding on the streets in the rain is especially sketchy as wet road reflect the light and I would guess my usable visible light on the road about 25% of what my lights look like in the dry.

Camera Settings:
F4, 100ISO, WB-Sunlight, TV-6sec, apx 38mm focal
All batteries freshly charged

Control:









Romisen 
Romisen RC-KF 3~8V Versatile Cree Flashlight (1x18650/3xAAA/2xCR123) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme
About 120 lumens









MS900 on High (apx 600L)









Two MS900's on High (apx 1200L)









MS 872 on High (apx 1000L)









Same setup, but with a different focal length to show the backset beam patterns better
Apx 16mm focal

Romisen









MS900 on High









Two MS900's on High









MS-872 on High









MS872 + MS900 on High









Overall impressions:

Build quality on the new light is better by outward appearances. I did not tear it apart to check intermals for swarf. The front lens on the MS872 is plastic so you have to be a bit more careful with it than the MS900's since those are glass.

The flood is nice, and on the road, I think it near ideal. Yes it throws some light above the horrizon and it may be bright for cars.... but I like the quality of the light. Its very smooth, and lack the rings and dropouts that the MS900 has. Paired with my Dinotte 400L I think I will be quite happy with the M872 alone w/o a paired up MS900. I suppose if I want to be truely annoying I could run all 4 lights and have a theoretical 2500 lumens, but being that they all are cone beams, and have no cutoff for other drivers, I find no reason to run that much light on the road unless perhaps I am in a downpour.

The hotspot in the center on my MS900 tended to make me focus on just the stuff in that small area... effectively narrowing my vision when in fact I like to keep my perspective as wide as possible. The MS-872 allows me to scan far better which I like. I still want a spot on my head for directional light however....

Looking at the pics, I would argue that the MS-872 VS dual MS900's (not the XML version) has nearly the same amount of light, just with a different beam pattern/distribution.

Will report back more once I have a few more rides in.

Note about the focal length. I think 38mm is closer to what I would see without scanning. Whereas 16mm is never really a realistic on-bike viewing perspective. It was thrown in there to just show beam pattern, as well as where a lot of light is going outside the visisble area on the 38mm shots.

Cheers to Geoman for their great customer service and wonderful communication. I don't think I will be purchasing a light from any other dealer other than them for the forseeable future.

-Jeff


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

znomit said:


> Perhaps with a tighter optic?


I was informed this 856 light has the exact same beam pattern (25 degree) as the new 872with clear optic...however due to it's design and slightly larger size (4.6mm larger outer diameter) it has better cooling which is obviously an issue with the 872. Currently it's really a bar mount light and comes with a neat bracket but they are working on an o-ring mount and well..people are creative. Maybe not as spiffy looking as the 872 but I'm fine with that if it cools better and doesn't overheat. Thoughts....

Anyone have any feedback on the new MS 5.6ah battery pack with Samsung cells? Basic hard case with no back lit display...fine by me.


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

skidad said:


> I was informed this 856 light has the exact same beam pattern (25 degree) as the new 872with clear optic...however due to it's design and slightly larger size (4.6mm larger outer diameter) it has better cooling which is obviously an issue with the 872. Currently it's really a bar mount light and comes with a neat bracket but they are working on an o-ring mount and well..people are creative. Maybe not as spiffy looking as the 872 but I'm fine with that if it cools better and doesn't overheat. Thoughts....
> 
> Anyone have any feedback on the new MS 5.6ah battery pack with Samsung cells? Basic hard case with no back lit display...fine by me.


I actually find this version to look better than the 872 and it appears to have far better cooling from the light head.

Ironically I don't like the look of the mount at all.

In the eye of the beholder right.


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## nick d (May 25, 2007)

randyharris said:


> I actually find this version to look better than the 872 and it appears to have far better cooling from the light head.
> 
> Ironically I don't like the look of the mount at all.
> 
> In the eye of the beholder right.


i think that lighthead with an oring mount would be perfect


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Thank you very much for the review, OP. 

Does anyone know what I can expect regarding water resistance for the 872 with GMG battery? Was thinking of ordering one to pair with my Lupine Piko, want to make sure it can handle rain and such.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

nick d said:


> i think that lighthead with an oring mount would be perfect


I was told there is one in the works.

I'm sure with a little work many mounts could be adapted to this light vs the handlebar mount they have now which is a bit tall.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

skidad said:


> I was told there is one in the works.
> 
> I'm sure with a little work many mounts could be adapted to this light vs *the handlebar mount they have now which is a bit tall.*
> 
> ]


If you look at the picture you'll see that it is not mounted on "Actual" bike handlebars which makes it look taller because there's no stem. Still, the mount might be a little tall as you said compared to others. You could always adapt the light to other mounts which shouldn't be a problem. Niterider makes an off-set mount which should work very well although it is a bit expensive ($29 ). I have a Bikeray IV mounted on one and it rocks.


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## klydesdale (Feb 6, 2005)

Cat-man-do said:


> If you look at the picture you'll see that it is not mounted on "Actual" bike handlebars which makes it look taller because there's no stem. Still, the mount might be a little tall as you said compared to others. You could always adapt the light to other mounts which shouldn't be a problem. Niterider makes an off-set mount which should work very well although it is a bit expensive ($29 ). I have a Bikeray IV mounted on one and it rocks.


That style mount came with my MJ836 lights I have. They're not just a bit tall but also pretty flimsy and let the light bounce around a bit too much. I ended up buying a couple of these Planet Bike mounts:








I had to swap the slide parts of the MS mounts onto the PB ones because they weren't an exact match. But the PB mount is much more secure.

The Bikeray handlebar mounts that GeomanGear sells should work too.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

dobbs said:


> I bought an 872 from Dealextreme and it has the new glass, but I can't really compare with the old glass. The light couldn't be better for what I need - I ride rocky technical trails and really need the flood beam.
> 
> *The problem is overheating. I live in Phoenix, and my summer night rides are often 100 degrees when I start at 8:30pm. On my last ride, I ran the light on next to lowest power (50% I think) and it had to shut down to the lowest power a few times to cool off. It was really quite annoying - even bombing down a hill it turned itself down. *
> 
> ...


These sorts of things are the problem for me and why I'm perfectly content to spend more money on reliable lights of better design. I've been stuck in dark rural mosquito infested areas with a failed light. Believe me, at at time like that the marginal incremental cost of a good light seems pretty negligible. (It's also the reason to always have a backup light even with a good light.) The whole thing is just an unsavory and dangerous experience that the incremental money more than makes up for.

J.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

JohnJ80 said:


> These sorts of things are the problem for me and why I'm perfectly content to spend more money on reliable lights of better design. I've been stuck in dark rural mosquito infested areas with a failed light. Believe me, at at time like that the marginal incremental cost of a good light seems pretty negligible. (It's also the reason to always have a backup light even with a good light.) The whole thing is just an unsavory and dangerous experience that the incremental money more than makes up for.
> 
> J.


I would alleviate _dangerous _and _unsavory _with a second light. Beyond that, define "incremental" 
Also can you speak personally to running your _better _light in 100+ degree heat for an hour or more on high..............:skep:
CDT


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

CdaleTony said:


> I would alleviate _dangerous _and _unsavory _with a second light. Beyond that, define "incremental"
> Also can you speak personally to running your _better _light in 100+ degree heat for an hour or more on high..............:skep:
> CDT


I've run my Light & Motion lights in 100+ many many times here in Phoenix, on FULL, never an issue as described with the 872.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

CdaleTony said:


> I would alleviate _dangerous _and _unsavory _with a second light. Beyond that, define "incremental"
> Also can you speak personally to running your _better _light in 100+ degree heat for an hour or more on high..............:skep:
> CDT


Don't have too - see post below. Perfect example.

Mine was a failed battery.

Incremental is the cost difference between what the cheap stuff costs and what the good stuff costs.

When you're in the dark, miserable, no longer moving fast, and getting eaten alive by bugs, the incremental cost difference does not seem like a big deal anymore (at least to me). As well, riding home on an emergency light over rural highways where visibility to traffic is key, is not good with an emergency light and, maybe I'm wrong here, most of us are not going out with two complete sets of lights. Coming home over the 10 miles of unlit rural windy roads with a smaller light is not safe, IMO. The incremental cost will not even come close to the cost of an accident or injury.

I, too, was more worried about the incremental cost until I got caught out. I ride with, and find I need, lots of light. Riding out with marginal light is still not my idea of equivalent safety or fun. So, I want max reliability. So, I buy the better stuff. YMMV - until you get caught out.

I don't have to take the cheap route, so I don't.

J.


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## CdaleTony (Jun 21, 2005)

JohnJ80 said:


> Don't have too - see post below. Perfect example.
> 
> Mine was a failed battery.
> 
> ...


That pretty much sums it up then. Incremental to me isnt double or triple the price. 10 or 15% is 'incremental' to me. I could afford a $400 light, but probably not 2. I prefer (in my northern climate) to run two $89 lights... Or heck even 2 $150 lights...
CDT
YMMV


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

Right. We have different ideas about incremental cost and the value it provides.

I will say this - my definition of cheap - changed after I had this incident. There is false economy and buying marginally constructed marginally reliable lights is just false economy for me. If you think about the consequences of a failed light at a critical time see what a catastrophe it could be. 

BTW, I live in a northern climate too- Minnesota. Battery quality is a big issue here too for riding through the cold season. There are all sorts of issues with electronics in this application, heat is only one of them. There is cold, vibration, humidity, battery, etc... Given the time (and the desire), I could think of many.

Look at the teardown pictures of this light above - all the short cuts are taken: THe machining/internal construction is a mess (i.e. look at the holes drilled in the aluminum plate), lack of thermal goo for heat transfer, lack of seal on case components and switch etc.. If I had the inclination it'd be fun to put this through a temp cycle/vibration test. I'm sure that would show a short predicted lifespan. If so, that begs the question of what happens when it fails? Are you just sitting at a stop sign or are you on a fast downhill on highly technical terrain when it all goes dark? That's a gamble I'm interested in making sure the odds are way in my favor - hence I'm willing to pay for reliability and quality.


J.


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## HellToupee (Jan 19, 2010)

I would rather go with the cheap light, problems waterproofing,overheating can be overcome with a bit of DIY, as far as reliability the most reliable option is in quantity i would put more trust in 2 cheaper lights rather than a single expensive one and when you can get something like 4 or more mj-872s and batteries for a single equlivant in a high end brand well bit of a no brainer to me.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

HellToupee said:


> I would rather go with the cheap light, problems waterproofing,overheating can be overcome with a bit of DIY, as far as reliability the most reliable option is in quantity i would put more trust in 2 cheaper lights rather than a single expensive one and when you can get something like 4 or more mj-872s and batteries for a single equlivant in a high end brand well bit of a no brainer to me.


It's not a choice between one high end and two low end. It's a choice between two lights either way. If you ride with a single light, you're in big trouble if that light goes out. In many cases you might be in BIG trouble very easily. My point was that you are still in a dangerous position getting home with one less bright light in many cases (visibility, traffic, road hazards etc...). But the real hazard - and this is where it really matters for reliability - is if your light fails at a dangerous time even if you have two lights on. For example, having one of my lights fail while descending at 30mph _on a road_ would be a very big problem. On a trail, it's even worse. The quick change in brightness would be disorienting and a surprise.

So, saying that happens - and I'm not saying it would, this is a game of statistics and probability over a statistically significant number of units - the potential for catastrophe is high even though the probability may be low. If that chance is twice as much (and it's probably a lot more than that), then that's a time when, after it occurs when I might be thinking that that incremental cost was not so much after all. That's also a risk I could have easily reduced but didn't, i.e. it was under my control to resolve.

So, we all make our choices. Having been close to that situation and realizing how dangerous it can be, I'm not willing to take the risk. Just not worth it to me to save a few dollars.

J.


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

HellToupee said:


> I would rather go with the cheap light, problems waterproofing,overheating can be overcome with a bit of DIY, as far as reliability the most reliable option is in quantity i would put more trust in 2 cheaper lights rather than a single expensive one and when you can get something like 4 or more mj-872s and batteries for a single equlivant in a high end brand well bit of a no brainer to me.


It's a choice we all make, there is no universally correct decision. As with most things the higher quality options tend to cost more, we all have to decide if the extra expense is justified for our use. I think it is wrong when people preach that the high or low cost route is the best, it depends on several factors including budget.

It's a no-brainier to me, I use my light 3 times a week most of the year and I value the design and features of the premium lights so that's what I buy some of the guys I ride with use Magicshine, and they just shrug if they have issues - to them it was worth the price of admission. I plan on using my new Lupine Piko and DiNotte 1200L-Plus for many years to come.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

That's right. I'm the same way - my lights are used 3 or more times per week too. Every minute I can steal to ride my bike is important to me in the fall. I also can't afford to get hurt because I have no recuperation time before ski season starts and then it's 4-5 days a week on skis. Missing any time on either due to injury is a bigger problem than a couple of hundred dollars (i.e. I see it as a very low incremental cost).

J.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*You guys are getting off topic yes you are preaching no one gives a ***** how much you ride. Ive had plenty of big name lights fail on me.via either light head or battery...
this thread is about MJ872 which neither of you seem to have any personal experience with.
lets get this thread back on topic,,,,
Ive been using this lighthead for about a month now with ZERO issues. yes 2 to 3 times a week. anytime you have a lighthead this small kicking out this many lumens its going to get hot DUH!!!!!!!!!!! you have to use it accordingly at 50% this is all most will need:thumbsup: kick it up when you need it and its sickly bright *


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

JohnJ80 said:


> ....So, saying that happens - and I'm not saying it would, this is a game of statistics and probability over a statistically significant number of units - the potential for catastrophe is high even though the probability may be low. If that chance is twice as much (and it's probably a lot more than that), then that's a time when, after it occurs when I might be thinking that that incremental cost was not so much after all. That's also a risk I could have easily reduced but didn't, i.e. it was under my control to resolve.
> 
> *So, we all make our choices*. Having been close to that situation and realizing how dangerous it can be, I'm not willing to take the risk. Just not worth it to me to save a few dollars.
> 
> J.


Yes, we all make choices and we all make decisions based on issues important to us. When it comes to stuff like this there is no , "One shoe fits all". That being said there are different strategies to achieve similar goals as far as safety and reliability go. One approach is to take the high $$$ road with the idea being stuff that cost more but is more time tested and therefore more reliable. You'll get no argument from me along that line of thought. If you can afford it than it makes good sense. Then there's the approach of "safety in numbers". If one light fails you have back-ups. This is the approach I usually take although I have good reliable lights as well. I'm lucky because I own multiple light sets so I can mix and match.

My usual set-up is thus: One main ( reliable/proven ) light on the bars accompanied by a proven multi-mode torch (XML ) on the other side. Then I use something on the helmet, either a torch or bike light depending on the need. Sometimes I will use three cheaper lights. I have no problem with this because all the stuff I have works and it would be most unusual for everything I have to fail but with that said I never ride at night without multiple lights regardless of what lights I use.

Regardless of what lights you use all lights use batteries. If you forgot your battery or forgot to charge the battery..well...Crap happens. Like most people on forum here I have experienced what is like to suddenly be without lights. Worse case scenarios vary but I've had lights suddenly go out while on steep downhills..:eekster:... ( Ah, those old Halogen days ... ) I also know the peril of being caught in the woods and suddenly realize that you have no lights and the sun is dropping fast. For me it's gotten to the point where if I think I'm going to do a late day run ( not unusual for me ) I'll at least carry a couple torches along and 2 extra cells. Both are XM-L mult-mode torches, have decent beam patterns and are very light weight. About 1300 lumen total for both - give or take 150lm.

I took a solemn vowel years ago to never be caught without needing a light source while on my bike. So far I've kept that vowel ( with no help from Vanna.. ) and been fortunate enough to have never been without a needed light source ( or enough juice to run them ).......knock on wood.

Just remember, regardless of what you own....Stuff happens.


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## Waltah (Aug 5, 2011)

JohnJ80 said:


> It's not a choice between one high end and two low end. It's a choice between two lights either way. If you ride with a single light, you're in big trouble if that light goes out. *For example, having one of my lights fail while descending at 30mph on a road would be a very big problem. On a trail, it's even worse. The quick change in brightness would be disorienting and a surprise.*


im picturing you careening down a mountain one handed trying to mount up a back-up light at full speed.

this is where we use those funny looking levers on the handlebars that create friction on those shiny disc's bolted to the wheels. doing this properly you can actually slow your bicycle to a stop and allow you to assess your situation.

after assessing the situation and realizing you no longer have the same amount of light, you can adjust your speed accordingly for the remainder of the trail with whatever backup light you have or do not have. once you get home you can trouble shoot your light and find out what you need to do to fix/replace whatever it is that failed. if you need to carry 14 lights on you at all times because _you'll be damned if a light malfunction is going to ruin a single ride_ maybe its time to live life with a little moderation. go home, have a beer, look at what you need to fix or upgrade and not worry about not getting a "complete" ride in.


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## JohnJ80 (Oct 10, 2008)

You can't be serious. You mean that you are able, in pitch black at high speed with complete safety to bring your bike to rapid stop with no issues? If so, you are a better man than I.

J.


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## Waltah (Aug 5, 2011)

Waltah said:


> i
> this is where we use those funny looking levers on the handlebars that create friction on those shiny disc's bolted to the wheels. doing this properly you can actually slow your bicycle to a stop and allow you to assess your situation.
> 
> after assessing the situation and realizing *you no longer have the same amount of light, you can adjust your speed accordingly for the remainder of the trail with whatever backup light you have* or do not have.





JohnJ80 said:


> You can't be serious. You mean that you are able, in pitch black at high speed with complete safety to bring your bike to rapid stop with no issues? If so, you are a better man than I.
> 
> J.


.....


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## HellToupee (Jan 19, 2010)

we wouldn't be in pitch black as we wouldnt be usingjust one fancy light which no matter how expensive is a single point of failure.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

Congrats on the craptastic thread derailling, gentlemen


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## lesoudeur (Nov 3, 2005)

My take on it....two upfront (spot and flood) and two rear. Two batteries. Gives flexibility and backups. No problems with any light heads overheating. One rear did fail due to glass rotating with bezel and pulled internal wires away resulting in a short that may have damaged the battery. I replaced both and am more careful turning bezel (a weakness in design IMO).


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

XJaredX said:


> Congrats on the craptastic thread derailling, gentlemen


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

Back to the original topic. I have ridden with the light on High on multiple rides now, all road, all when temps are <75 deg.... no drop in power on my end.

I hooked up the light to the Dinotte 2-cell battery packs. On a full charge, the battery life indicator when running on a two cell goes from green, to blue, to orange, to red in a matter of about a minute. It must be pulling a ton of juice to drop the voltage like that on the two cell. If run on high for > 15 min, it starts to flash red (indicating < 15% battery life if I recall).

I was just goffing off in the back yard with the light so did not run a full test on how long the 872 could run on a two cell battery.

When road riding, I want minimum weight and bulk. I know I won't be any faster on the bike running a 2c vs a 4c battery, but I don't like that much crap strapped to my bars.

I did get my 400L I loaned out to a friend back and will post pic's of the combo soon.... but the 400L gets lost in the blast of light the 872 puts out on high. Comparitvely, it makes the 400L look like a flashlight. Makes me want to upgrade the LED's in the 400L to the up the power to a true 400L (rather than the 250-300L others have stated this light head actually produces)


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## randyharris (Jul 1, 2009)

hiroshima said:


> I hooked up the light to the Dinotte 2-cell battery packs. On a full charge, the battery life indicator when running on a two cell goes from green, to blue, to orange, to red in a matter of about a minute. It must be pulling a ton of juice to drop the voltage like that on the two cell. If run on high for > 15 min, it starts to flash red (indicating < 15% battery life if I recall).
> 
> I was just goffing off in the back yard with the light so did not run a full test on how long the 872 could run on a two cell battery.


Do you know what the runtime is on the 4 cell battery it came with? (running on full / high mode)


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

randyharris said:


> Do you know what the runtime is on the 4 cell battery it came with? (running on full / high mode)


*4.5 battery
Runtime: 1.75 hours on High (Level 4), 2.5 hours on Level 3, 3.5 hours on Level 2, 5.75 hours on Low (Level 1) 
6.0 battery
Runtime: 2.4 hours on High (Level 4), 3.5 hours on Level 3, 5 hours on Level 2, 7.5 hours on Low (Level 1)
these are off geomans site and I have tested them myself and get close to the same times.
on the indicator going to red on high these lights give false battery indicator readings geoman states that clearly on his site 
A 5 stage power meter - as the battery depletes from 100% the backlit button will change colors from Green(100%) - Blue(95 - 70%) - Yellow(70 - 50%) - Red(50 - 5%) - Flashing Red(5 - 0%). ** Note results may vary as lightheads were designed after the battery, runtime estimates below are accurate however in the higher modes of output the indicator can provide incorrect readings.
*
*
After it goes red on the 6.0 I get 1 hour + so i don't worry about what the indicator says:thumbsup:*


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

*From another forum*

For those of you who have gotten the replacement batteries - The LED indicator might turn RED sooner than expected even though you have a fully charged pack.

Here is the official explanation from Geomangear:

"We understand you are seeing some variations in the color indicator. We have referred this issue to our battery manufacturer and they have examined the discharge rates of the Panasonic cells we use and the other cells that Magicshine has used in a number of battery packs. The cells from different manufacturers discharge at different rates and the voltage meter in the lighthead was designed to compliment the chinese cells rather than the Panasonic cells we use. The burntime will be the same as listed however the color indicators will change faster with the Panasonic cells. We have posted color change estimates on our website that you might see with the GeoManGear battery packs.

Our battery pack manufacturer is looking at solutions to this issue however we will only use the Panasonic cells and we don't manufacture the lightheads so it will be a difficult issue to overcome.

We are not seeing any diminished runtime, only lighthead indicator colors are showing change earlier than the original Chinese battery packs as discussed above.

Thanks
GeoManGear"

***


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## GreyBard (Sep 21, 2011)

In regards to weatherproofing. Clear GE silicone caulk is good up to at least 400F, so that should make for a bombproof seal.

In regards to heating problems. There is a very thermally conductive "caulk" that is used to conduct heat from electronic devices, like power amps, to their heat sinks. Using this and some aluminum tubing one should be able to wrap 12-20 4-8" tubes around the 872 and dramatically increase the size of the heat sink. Drilling holes along the sides of the tubes will make them even more effective, as will larger diameters. 

Old TV antenna rods should work well. Another ready source of quality aluminum is knitting needles. They come in many sizes and lengths, and even in double pointed versions. Again, drilling holes along the length of the tubes will help them dump heat.

Some kind of funnel shaped air scoop might also help, as would a spray bottle attachment stuck into a hydration pack's mouth tube. Think water-cooled machine guns.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

GreyBard said:


> In regards to weatherproofing. Clear GE silicone caulk is good up to at least 400F, so that should make for a bombproof seal.
> 
> In regards to heating problems. There is a very thermally conductive "caulk" that is used to conduct heat from electronic devices, like power amps, to their heat sinks. Using this and some aluminum tubing one should be able to wrap 12-20 4-8" tubes around the 872 and dramatically increase the size of the heat sink. Drilling holes along the sides of the tubes will make them even more effective, as will larger diameters.
> 
> ...


Huh, are you kidding me. Why should you have to do all that to a new light beside making the thing look hideous. You can buy the MJ-856 which has the exact same specs and beam pattern as the MJ-872 in a package that should cool much better. It's 4.6mm larger in diameter and for some maybe not as attractive as the 872 but that's the one I've ordered because clearly the 872 has some overheating issues.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

skidad said:


> Huh, are you kidding me. Why should you have to do all that to a new light beside making the thing look hideous. You can buy the MJ-856 which has the exact same specs and beam pattern as the MJ-872 in a package that should cool much better. It's 4.6mm larger in diameter and for some maybe not as attractive as the 872 but that's the one I've ordered because clearly the 872 has some overheating issues.


*One guy who has rides in 100 degree temps and has overheating issues does not mean the general user will. Ive used it in 90 with zero issues. I like this light so much I'm planning on getting another:thumbsup:*


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

skidad said:


> Huh, are you kidding me. Why should you have to do all that to a new light beside making the thing look hideous. You can buy the MJ-856 which has the exact same specs and beam pattern as the MJ-872 in a package that should cool much better. It's 4.6mm larger in diameter and for some maybe not as attractive as the 872 but that's the one I've ordered because clearly the 872 has some overheating issues.


I agree, I am not sure I want to slap green, yelllow, and pink knitting needles onto the sides of my light with caulking.... then drill them out....

Night riding in CA, unless doing so in Death Valley, usually gets no hotter than 85.... and if its that hot (I am a woose) I wouldn't go....

Overheating issues should be taken with an eye to your own local weather. I am Northern CA, Most nights, even when its 100 degs in the day.... drops to the 70's at night. Also consider road vs MTB where road speeds will help carry off heat from the light more efficiently.

The light has not been around long enough for any true measure of reliability. My opinion is that the light may indeed get really hot internally. So much so that it will drastically shorten the life of the LED/driver/etc....

*BUT*, in the last 7 years, I have purchased 5 different sets of lights.... all increasing light output with each iteration. I may not be the norm.... but I am willing to wager I will replace/upgrade the light long before it wears out on its own.


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

Man, you guys can really get testy about these things. I've done many rides with my MJ-872 over the last couple months since I bought it and worked on my overheating issues - and I love it. I usually go out with a MJ-808 strapped to the bar as well, but I never use it. I like the broad flood and smooth transition from the 872 even better than the two of them mixed together. Bright spots hurt technical riding ability IMO. 

If I were to buy another, and I may (my wife rides, too) I would get the MJ-856, or buy the MJ-872 from GeomanGear for the additional US support. I still think there is a possibility I have a bad unit, but it is working fine for my purposes. 

So, other than my 872 and 808, my other experiences with lights have been NiteRider. I got a set of two halogen lights back in 95 or so that were good at the time, and quite reliable. Then in the mid 2000s I bought a NR Blowtorch HID light. Heavy, and unreliable with a terrible flicker at speed. I've had two bulbs go out on me mid-ride. I would much rather spend the money on two Magicshines, than bet my ride on one expensive unit. Redundancy is good.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

dobbs said:


> *Man, you guys can really get testy about these things*. I've done many rides with my MJ-872 over the last couple months since I bought it and worked on my overheating issues - and I love it. I usually go out with a MJ-808 strapped to the bar as well, but I never use it. I like the broad flood and smooth transition from the 872 even better than the two of them mixed together. Bright spots hurt technical riding ability IMO.
> 
> If I were to buy another, and I may (my wife rides, too) I would get the MJ-856, or buy the MJ-872 from GeomanGear for the additional US support. I still think there is a possibility I have a bad unit, but it is working fine for my purposes.
> 
> So, other than my 872 and 808, my other experiences with lights have been NiteRider. I got a set of two halogen lights back in 95 or so that were good at the time, and quite reliable. Then in the mid 2000s I bought a NR Blowtorch HID light. Heavy, and unreliable with a terrible flicker at speed. I've had two bulbs go out on me mid-ride. I would much rather spend the money on two Magicshines, than bet my ride on one expensive unit. Redundancy is good.


*Dont take may bold type as testy Im just blind and like to be able to see what Ive typed *
*It does not matter which light you buy I just like to point out the facts.. that one guys issue isn't everyone's:thumbsup:*


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

JohnJ80 said:


> These sorts of things are the problem for me and why I'm perfectly content to spend more money on reliable lights of better design. I've been stuck in dark rural mosquito infested areas with a failed light. Believe me, at at time like that the marginal incremental cost of a good light seems pretty negligible. (It's also the reason to always have a backup light even with a good light.) The whole thing is just an unsavory and dangerous experience that the incremental money more than makes up for.
> 
> J.


I'm convinced that JohnJ80 feels the need to get involved with all the Magicshine/budget light threads to justify to himself for spending so much on his lights.

Personally, if there was a product that I wasn't interested in for myself, I'd have very little to say about it, and certainly wouldn't spend countless time talking about it.

But hey, I'm weird like that


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

fightnut said:


> I'm convinced that JohnJ80 feels the need to get involved with all the Magicshine/budget light threads to justify to himself for spending so much on his lights.
> 
> Personally, if there was a product that I wasn't interested in for myself, I'd have very little to say about it, and certainly wouldn't spend countless time talking about it.
> 
> But hey, I'm weird like that


Seriously, what are the odds of both MagicShine lights failing on the same ride? Pretty damn low, I would think. Odds of my MJ-872 overheating on a 105 degree nightride - pretty high. But the solution is easy. Turn it off when you are not moving; don't run the light higher than 50% on a slow climb. Even when it has overheated, it's still usable, it just runs at a lower intensity.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

Followup on my impressions of the light. Ran the road bike last night with 872 and MS900 on the bars + Dinotte 400L on the lid. Road ride, 20.2 ave with more than a few stops at red lights and a late night drop-off at the library. Did it at 11pm at night.

Had all lights on high. Cars SLOWED down for me as I approached.... some slowed down and looked when going in the same direction... it was creepy since it was so late. All I think were just curious, and not malicious.

Pushing close to 2000 lumnes out the front with a significant (probably 40%) going into the atmosphere. Approaching parked trailers I had a GREAT view of all their reflective tape so I know I had a lot of light above the horrizon. I pointed both bar lights down to hit about 25' in front of me. 50' seemed too far off and decreased intensity.

The P7 alone used to be nice, but now that I have the 872 with a wide, smooth, and even swath of light,.... I am no longer happy with the P7 (or even a dual P7 setup). The bright center spot just draws the eye into too small of an area to really have a good scan of the ground. The 872 is awsome in that respect. Aimed ~25' in front of me, I have a solid and pretty even bar of light from my front wheel out beyond the center focus area of the light. The P7 can't hope to have such great coverage.

The down-side is that this think probably dazzles other drivers.... hate to think what it would do to a unsuspecting cyclist going the wrong way in the bike lane (as often happens where I live). I would guess they would be blinded for a bit not making it safe for them or me.

The 400L on the lid is nice, but with 2000 lumens, my guess is that my pupils we "stopping down" the light my eyes were seeing since it so damn bright. The 400L just can't keep up. Its usefull, but just marginally. Taking turns at speed, where my head is spotting my exit line, I can feel my eyes strain to try to adjust to he sudden drop in light. (going from 2000 to 250 lumens is a big drop).

I rode on the levee where there are basically no lights... these lights rock. I can travel as fast as I want and do not fear not having enought reaction time to stop. Topped 33mph on the ride, no issues. 

I kinda wish it had more throw, but REALLY like the spread. I think the next step, if there is one, is to run two lights, one 872 and one spot with a pencil beam to blaze a path down the road.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

hiroshima said:


> Followup on my impressions of the light. Ran the road bike last night with 872 and MS900 on the bars + Dinotte 400L on the lid. Road ride, 20.2 ave with more than a few stops at red lights and a late night drop-off at the library. Did it at 11pm at night.
> 
> Had all lights on high. Cars SLOWED down for me as I approached.... some slowed down and looked when going in the same direction... it was creepy since it was so late. All I think were just curious, and not malicious.
> 
> ...


*Pair it with a XM-L next to it like lesoudeur and Me its unbelievably bright you don't miss much with that XM-L lighting everything within 100 yards and the 872 picking up everything close. I find myself going faster than I do in the day cuz the ruts don't look as deep:thumbsup::thumbsup:*


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

*LED surround blemish*

Ok, I just got my new MJ-856 (872 in different housing) and noticed maybe a little problem. Would like to get some experienced opinions as this is my first light.

In the shiny area that surrounds 2 of the LED's there are small chips or blemishes. 1 on each of the LED surrounds. Not to big on either but looks like something that would happen if you tightened down to much on plastic and it chipped a little. Actually now that I look really close only 1 of the shiny area surrounds of the 4 LED's is really perfect without a blemish of some sort.

I presume I should return this if it's gonna affect the light?

Very speedy shipping from BrightStone in NC BTW and a brand new MS 5.6Ah battery with Samsung cells is now available. GeoMan doesn't plan to stock the MJ-856 version light.

Thanks all


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## pena40 (Sep 23, 2011)

*New vs Old optic on the mj-872 *Hi

I got 2 MJ-872 with the "old" flod beam optic, have anyone compared the new optic with the old one. i´m close to order one to get mor pencilbeam on one of the lights.

But have anyone seen both optics to compare the difference ?

Regards


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

*What about MJ-870?*

Hi,
Anybody who has any impressions and experience with MJ-870? Every of you bought MJ-872 so I am the only person who ordered an MJ-870?  (Ordered 3 weeks ago from DX, I will get it soon, I guess. I will give you some info if anyone is interested in. Anyway, I also have an updated MJ-808, not the Cree led one but the older P7 led version. Thus, I can do some comparison between those lights.)


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

pena40 said:


> *New vs Old optic on the mj-872 *Hi
> 
> I got 2 MJ-872 with the "old" flod beam optic, have anyone compared the new optic with the old one. i´m close to order one to get mor pencilbeam on one of the lights.
> 
> ...


There are lots of posts around with beamshots of the 872 but I have not seen a side by side between the old and new optic. Obviously the shots from the very beginning of this thread are the old optic and most likely more floody than the new one. Even so the beam on the new one is a 25 degree so pretty wide. Not sure how long the older optic version was in production but they must have changed it for a reason. Maybe you could get an exchange for the new optic light heads? GeoMan could probably answer this question best. Shoot him a PM or email.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

pena40 said:


> *New vs Old optic on the mj-872 *Hi
> 
> I got 2 MJ-872 with the "old" flod beam optic, have anyone compared the new optic with the old one. i´m close to order one to get mor pencilbeam on one of the lights.
> 
> ...


This light, with the new optic will never be a pencil beam. I have not had both versions, but I do have the current version (with the clear optic) and this is a flood light through-and-through. If you need a pencil beam, look to another light-head entirely. Geoman has spare clear lenses they were giving away a month or so back for those who had the old version. eMail them and they may still have some left.


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

pena40 said:


> *New vs Old optic on the mj-872 *Hi
> 
> I got 2 MJ-872 with the "old" flod beam optic, have anyone compared the new optic with the old one. i´m close to order one to get mor pencilbeam on one of the lights.
> 
> ...


Just recieved the new optic and i can say the new optic is much better in every way.

Lux of the P7 37
Lux of the XML 44
Lux of the old optic 65
Lux with new optic 85

The beam pattern is much more uniform too, the old light is just a splurge of light, the new one has a defined flood, although the edges do have definition they fade out nicely.

I did notice when changing the optic, the star had come off the body, if this is the case on lots of these lights, this may be a cause of everyones overheating issues.

I find only low mode stays proper cool while riding, the other modes do get warm even when moving


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

Finally, I received my MJ-870. At this moment, I don't have any experience with it on the mountain trails, but I'm wondering about that the lamp is still equipped with the old lens and not with the new clear one... So I will try to find the way how to get the updated lens. Nevertheless, the build quality is much better than my old MJ-808's and in spite of that this model has 'only' 3 Cree XP-Gs, the light output is apparently much bigger than at my MJ-808. Can't wait to try it on the trails...


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## GreyBard (Sep 21, 2011)

*How to cool*



hiroshima said:


> I agree, I am not sure I want to slap green, yelllow, and pink knitting needles onto the sides of my light with caulking.... then drill them out....
> 
> Night riding in CA, unless doing so in Death Valley, usually gets no hotter than 85.... and if its that hot (I am a woose) I wouldn't go....
> 
> ...


Interesting choice of colors there. Knitting needles come in all kinds of colors, so you'd pick one that's palatable.

@hiroshima, A question was asked on the 1st page about cooling, and no response was given - other than the implied one of "dig a hole and bury the light you just paid good money for, and buy a new one". If you don't have a cooling issue, why comment? Clearly my post was not directed at you.

Your response implies you have faith that the newly designed case will solve the problem. I doubt that is going to be true, because I've spent a lot of time studying how electronic devices are heat-sinked, and that case design is NOT very effective. It might look pretty, but it won't sink heat well. Most people will think it works super-awesome, because they didn't have a heat problem in the 1st place, just a lot of loose change burning a hole in their pockets.

If your shiny new toy doesn't stay cool enough either, get back to me, I'm actually knowledgeable in this area and have some constructive ideas to offer. Even if they aren't pretty enough to put a sparkle in your eyes, they won't leave you stranded high on a mtn somewhere.


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## GreyBard (Sep 21, 2011)

*Redundancy is better*



dobbs said:


> Man, you guys can really get testy about these things. I've done many rides with my MJ-872 over the last couple months since I bought it and worked on my overheating issues - and I love it. I usually go out with a MJ-808 strapped to the bar as well, but I never use it. I like the broad flood and smooth transition from the 872 even better than the two of them mixed together. Bright spots hurt technical riding ability IMO.
> 
> If I were to buy another, and I may (my wife rides, too) I would get the MJ-856, or buy the MJ-872 from GeomanGear for the additional US support. I still think there is a possibility I have a bad unit, but it is working fine for my purposes.
> 
> So, other than my 872 and 808, my other experiences with lights have been NiteRider. I got a set of two halogen lights back in 95 or so that were good at the time, and quite reliable. Then in the mid 2000s I bought a NR Blowtorch HID light. Heavy, and unreliable with a terrible flicker at speed. I've had two bulbs go out on me mid-ride. I would much rather spend the money on two Magicshines, than bet my ride on one expensive unit. Redundancy is good.


I was going to make the same point. You can have completely redundant power and lamps and still more redundancy for taillights and last-ditch PB Blaze 2W up front.

The chances that you'd be in the middle of a treacherous descent and have all of that fail at once are infinitesimal, and much less than the failure of any single device no matter how much it costs.

If all of that fails at once, just relax and enjoy being whisked into another Galaxy by aliens who found you interesting, and decided to take you for a pet.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Mine just arrived! First ride tonight.


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## mochodurazo (Nov 29, 2008)

pulled the trigger for a 2600 lumens combo: 808E XML $ 872.

Just cant wait to test them.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

skidad said:


> Ok, I just got my new MJ-856 (872 in different housing) and noticed maybe a little problem. Would like to get some experienced opinions as this is my first light.
> 
> In the shiny area that surrounds 2 of the LED's there are small chips or blemishes. 1 on each of the LED surrounds. Not to big on either but looks like something that would happen if you tightened down to much on plastic and it chipped a little. Actually now that I look really close only 1 of the shiny area surrounds of the 4 LED's is really perfect without a blemish of some sort.
> 
> ...


Well I got no answers to my question but I did end up returning the lamp head only to BrightStone Sports in NC and they returned to me a perfect MJ-856 lamp head ASAP. They have been great all through the order process with all my questions and were very apologetic about the 1st lamp head. They also gave me their advertised 5% discount when you spend $200 or more even when my order didn't hit the $200 mark. Nice...every bit helps.

Link...BrightStoneSports - MagicShine Bike Light and Accessories | Magic Shine MJ-808 | MJ-808e | MJ-816 | MJ-818 | MJ-856 | MJ-872 | ...


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

GreyBard said:


> If all of that fails at once, just relax and enjoy being whisked into another Galaxy by aliens who found you interesting, and decided to take you for a pet.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

skidad said:


> I was told there is one in the works.
> 
> I'm sure with a little work many mounts could be adapted to this light vs the handlebar mount they have now which is a bit tall.


Ask and you shall receive....O-ring mount version now available of the MJ-856. The mount pictured above which I got is actually pretty nice and a bit better IMO with a few easy mods.

MagicShine MJ-856b O-ring mount 1600 lumens LED Bike Light Set


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

well I just got back from my first night ride with my MJ-872. I ran the light on my bars and I'm tellin' ya that light is a bright little son of a gun! The flood is so bright smooth and white with no center beam lighting the single track from right to left and from wheel top to horizon up into the approaching trees. 

I say Bright!

I rode a nice flowy fast single track through tight redwoods and only really used the level 3 (out of 4 levels- 4 being the highest) for most of the descent.Throw was sufficient as this bugger is so bright I never felt I was in danger of out running the light beam.
I did bump up to level 4 and ran that at high output for a few of those fast miles and the light head seemed to be cool. Took off my gloves to check the light head and it was just slightly warm to the touch. Not all that hot for sure. This light is surely capable of being ran by itself if you can only dish out for one light. I did get the 1 meter cord and helmet mount and will try on my helmet next ride
.
The back lit button on the light head with color code power consumption meter is nice on the bars as you can see where you stand as far as battery consumption.
So far Magicshine product has performed as advertised and completely satisfied with the product. 
I will continue to experiment with the 872 and if I remain satisfied, I may spring for the 1000 lumen MJ 808E for the noggin! 
Tone. .


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## Kibo (Jul 13, 2007)

I bought an MJ-872 for my wife for her birthday, and she's pretty excited about having her own bright light for MTB night rides. Even though I read this thread before making the purchase, I have to say I was pretty disappointed with the lack of quality. When I disassembled it, there was a ton of metal swarf floating around in the housing (enough to cause a high probability of a short) and the o-ring on the rear cap has a long slit in it as if cut by a razor blade.

More troubling than that, though, three of the four LEDs light up (albeit very dimly) when the battery is plugged in but the light is off. Has anyone here seen this problem? Assuming it's a problem with this light, I'm not looking forward to the exchange process...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Kibo said:


> I bought an MJ-872 for my wife for her birthday, and she's pretty excited about having her own bright light for MTB night rides. Even though I read this thread before making the purchase, I have to say I was pretty disappointed with the lack of quality. When I disassembled it, there was a ton of metal swarf floating around in the housing (enough to cause a high probability of a short) and the o-ring on the rear cap has a long slit in it as if cut by a razor blade.
> 
> More troubling than that, though, three of the four LEDs light up (albeit very dimly) when the battery is plugged in but the light is off. Has anyone here seen this problem? Assuming it's a problem with this light, I'm not looking forward to the exchange process...


Hopefully you bought from a reputable dealer because to me it certainly sounds like something is shorted.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Last night ride my mj-872 temperature protection kicked in all the time. I was riding at low speed in 3rd power mode (almost full brightness)...

I think that the dissipators are not well design for this ligth...

Is there sufficient thermal paste between the led star and the body?

Any thoughts?


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

Batas said:


> Last night ride my mj-872 temperature protection kicked in all the time. I was riding at low speed in 3rd power mode (almost full brightness)...
> 
> I think that the dissipators are not well design for this ligth...
> 
> ...


need more info. How slow is slow? Ambient temp?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Speed: 10-15km/h
Temp. 15-20ºC


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Batas said:


> Speed: 10-15km/h
> Temp. 15-20ºC


10 km/h is pretty slow but with all things considered if your light is powering down due to thermal issues at those temps/speed I would consider that a big problem.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> 10 km/h is pretty slow but with all things considered if your light is powering down due to thermal issues at those temps/speed I would consider that a big problem.


Agree. 10mph is slow and 60deg f ambient I would not expect the light to be shutting down. I would not be too happy


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

I just took delivery of my new 872 last night and was playing around with it a little bit.
WOW. It totally BLOWS AWAY my Light and Motion Arc, even on the 3rd lowest setting - beam quality, color temperature, and overall brightness. In every way vastly superior.

However, I did notice a couple times, even on the 75% setting, when holding it in my hand, it powered down to the lowest setting on its own. This has me a bit concerned that it will do it while riding up a hill or something....I will update after my first full ride with it. It definitely gets warm....


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

It seems that it is the "normal" behaviour of the mj-872. It gets very hot and the thermal protection kicks in. No good.

I also have the MJ-808, and it gets hot, but at the same speed, it cools better. 

Since the 872 has two dissipators that can be taken apart from the main unit, I wonder if it is possible to replace the middle with a bigger one. I don't really care if it spoils the aestethic, as long it works...

Next step is to apply thermal past in everyplace.


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Crap...I was just about to pull the trigger on one of these. I thought it looked small and had shallow cooling fins for being so powerful? What's the next best option? Dionette XML-3 perhaps?

I wonder how hard it would be to modify it with a muffin fan.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Batas said:


> It seems that it is the "normal" behaviour of the mj-872. It gets very hot and the thermal protection kicks in. No good.
> 
> I also have the MJ-808, and it gets hot, but at the same speed, it cools better.
> 
> ...


*
I think you got a bad unit Mine has yet to kick in but I ride at 50% below 10 then kick it up when I'm going faster and that's with a ambient temp of 80 degrees F, Get a replacement from whoever you got it from.*


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Rakuman: I'm curious on whether it'll overheat if you run it on max or one step below max at slower speeds. Some of my night riding areas are rolling trails, where you go fast for a minute, then slow, then fast, and I don't want to have to be constantly adjusting brightness.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

@dam said:


> Rakuman: I'm curious on whether it'll overheat if you run it on max or one step below max at slower speeds. Some of my night riding areas are rolling trails, where you go fast for a minute, then slow, then fast, and I don't want to have to be constantly adjusting brightness.


*I run at 50% or 75%setting 90% of most of my rides this light is so bright any more is just not necessary unless you are hauling @ss sure I kick it up to high for downhills.and if you are booking you get plenty of air flow, I kick it down to low for the marathon climbs and its plenty of light... Love this light.*


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

If returning it isn't an option, it might be worth opening it up, taking the middle finned piece off and slathering some thermal paste (you can get it at computer stores) underneath so that the finned piece makes better contact with the body. As long as the thermal paths (from LED to housing, housing to fins, fins to air) are good, even a bit of airflow should keep the light cool.

how hot does it get to touch when the thermal protection trips? If it's uncomfortable to hold then the housing is doing its job and you just need to ride faster/ set the light lower. If it's only warm or even cool, especially that centre part, then it's not making good contact and you need to do what I suggested ^.


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

It is a great light, absolutely unbeatable at the price. 

I will report back on the dimming issue after my first 'real' ride. On it's maiden voyage on a quick 3 mile ride around the lake near my house, on 75% it did not dim once, but then again, that was on the road going about 18 mph...


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Tonight I will perform a test. Will open the front cover, take the lense out and try to measure the temperature in the star and in the dissipator. Lets see...

It gets very warm as it is...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

XCFred said:


> ...However, I did notice a couple times, even on the 75% setting, when* holding it in my hand*, it powered down to the lowest setting on its own. This has me a bit concerned that it will do it while riding up a hill or something....I will update after my first full ride with it. It definitely gets warm....


Yes but you were not using it with air blowing/ moving over it. Try it on the bike and see what happens. Slow climbs should be limited to half or 3/4 power. High should work fine as long as the bike is moving at a decent speed. Ambient air temp sounds like it might be an issue though. There have already been reports of problems at higher temperatures. Not good if you live in an area where it is warm even at night.

Now if I start hearing of people having the light power down on a down-hill run than that would be a very, very big problem.


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

FWIW, I was testing it on a chilly 55 degree, very windy night.


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## merlin01 (Feb 28, 2010)

Just had my first trail ride with an 872 on the bars and 808e on the lid. I ran them both on high for about an hour straight. Neither one dimmed down. I checked them both a couple of times and they were only slightly warm. Ambient temp was about 55 degrees, average speed was about 7mph.

When I tested the 872 in the house sitting on my desk it would get hot and dim down within about 10 minutes. The 808 would take a little longer to get hot.


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## jlwardn (Apr 16, 2011)

I just got my MJ-872 and the only thing I am unsure of is the way it is mounted to the handle bars. We ride at night in an area that is very XC with lots of 1-2ft drops and tons of rocks/tree roots. I don't want the light to be moving. How secure is the O-Ring mounts? What are my options for something more secure?


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

Alright dudes, partially out of curiosity I bought an MJ-856 lighthead to go with my MJ-872. After receiving it yesterday and playing with it last night, I have dubbed it "the one light to rule them all." It dissipates heat better, has a slightly warmer color temperature, and appears to me to put out about 30% more light than the MJ-872. Stunning. Will try to do a night ride this week with both of them and will comment more if anything is notable.

I bought it from these guys:

MagicShine MJ-856b O-ring mount 1600 lumens LED Bike Light Set

Their customer service was great.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

dobbs said:


> Alright dudes, partially out of curiosity I bought an MJ-856 lighthead to go with my MJ-872. After receiving it yesterday and playing with it last night, I have dubbed it "the one light to rule them all." It dissipates heat better, has a slightly warmer color temperature, and appears to me to put out about 30% more light than the MJ-872. Stunning. Will try to do a night ride this week with both of them and will comment more if anything is notable.
> 
> I bought it from these guys:
> 
> ...


Interesting observations! I also bought the 856 and have suggested it a few of my posts. Good to see someone else finally try it out. So far I'm very happy with the light also but I bought the bracket mount vs the o-ring mount. I did a few little mods to it and love how it places the light right over the stem. I have some pics to post at some time.

It would be great if this light was also included in the light shootout so Fancis could test it with his heat gun vs. the 872.

Yes, their customer service was awesome I agree.


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## hiroshima (Apr 17, 2006)

dobbs said:


> Alright dudes, partially out of curiosity I bought an MJ-856 lighthead to go with my MJ-872. After receiving it yesterday and playing with it last night, I have dubbed it "the one light to rule them all." It dissipates heat better, has a slightly warmer color temperature, and appears to me to put out about 30% more light than the MJ-872. Stunning. Will try to do a night ride this week with both of them and will comment more if anything is notable.
> 
> I bought it from these guys:
> 
> ...


Damn. You cannot be serious. 30% more light out of the 856.:madman:

Time to go support *someone's* economy......


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

30% more? Can´t be... How is it possible? Lets see if I can find the head unit only...


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

Batas said:


> 30% more? Can´t be... How is it possible? Lets see if I can find the head unit only...


I have no explanation - surprised the heck out of me. Maybe my MJ-872 is a dud? I love the 872, though, so I think I will love the 856 even more. And the 872 became the secondary light.


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

The 856 is the silver housing one, right? Isn't the optic, reflector, and LED's the same as the 872?

Would you take some pics? Better yet, would you put both of them on your bike, ride slow (or not at all) and tell us if one overheats first (does the 856 gave the overheat step-down mode)?


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## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

scar said:


> For those of you who have gotten the replacement batteries - The LED indicator might turn RED sooner than expected even though you have a fully charged pack.
> 
> Here is the official explanation from Geomangear:
> 
> ...


Hey guys,

How long does it take to charge the 6v battery packs? I just got my 872 new this weekend, and I charged it once for approx. 2 hours, and a second time for approx. 2 also. The indicator light on the charger is green, but when I plug the battery to the lighthead, the indicator light is yellow.

On the one hand I don't want to leave the battery plugged in too long, but on the other hand I don't want to run out of light on the trail 

I couldn't find info on GeoManGears website about how long to charge the batteries, and what the color of the indicator light on the charger represents. Any info would be appreciated.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

@dam said:


> The 856 is the silver housing one, right? Isn't the optic, reflector, and LED's the same as the 872?
> 
> Would you take some pics? Better yet, would you put both of them on your bike, ride slow (or not at all) and tell us if one overheats first (does the 856 gave the overheat step-down mode)?


 :thumbsup:


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## mochodurazo (Nov 29, 2008)

skidad said:


> Interesting observations! I also bought the 856 and have suggested it a few of my posts. Good to see someone else finally try it out. So far I'm very happy with the light also but I bought the bracket mount vs the o-ring mount. I did a few little mods to it and love how it places the light right over the stem. I have some pics to post at some time.
> 
> It would be great if this light was also included in the light shootout so Fancis could test it with his heat gun vs. the 872.
> 
> Yes, their customer service was awesome I agree.


Where did you got the bracket mount?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

slyfink said:


> ...I couldn't find info on GeoManGears website about how long to charge the batteries, and what the color of the indicator light on the charger represents...


The battery normally takes about 4 hrs for a full charge. A red indicator = charging. A green indicator = charging complete.

My MJ-872's indicator light, with a Geomangear battery and run on high, usually changes from green to blue to orange in less then a minute. Total run time is not effected.


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## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

gmcttr said:


> The battery normally takes about 4 hrs for a full charge. A red indicator = charging. A green indicator = charging complete.
> 
> My MJ-872's indicator light, with a Geomangear battery and run on high, usually changes from green to blue to orange in less then a minute. Total run time is not effected.


cool, thanks. I guess I'll find out for sure tomorrow!


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

mochodurazo said:


> Where did you got the bracket mount?


I'm curious as well


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

dobbs said:


> I have no explanation - surprised the heck out of me. Maybe my MJ-872 is a dud? I love the 872, though, so I think I will love the 856 even more. And the 872 became the secondary light.


Is the MJ-872 with clear or frosted optic? If it's frosted optic, it makes sense...
I'm also looking for MJ-856b (O-ring mount), but can't find any in EU except of Finland.


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

PeterG said:


> Is the MJ-872 with clear or frosted optic? If it's frosted optic, it makes sense...
> I'm also looking for MJ-856b (O-ring mount), but can't find any in EU except of Finland.


Both have the clear lens, and are supposed to be exactly the same internally.

When I next ride, I will test them on a climb to see which one overheats first. I live in Phoenix, Arizona and our daytime high temps are still in the 90s F. Heat is the main problem with these lights around here. And the friggin scorpions and camel spiders. Ack.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

mochodurazo said:


> Where did you got the bracket mount?


BrightStone Sports. You can get the MJ-856 with either the bracket mount (now showing out of stock) or the typical o-ring mount. They are listed seperately.

MagicShine MJ-856 1600 lumens LED Bike Light Set

I also upgraded the standard battery to the new Samsung 5600mAh battery pack (also showing out of stock)

MagicShine Samsung 5600 mAh Battery Pack


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Thanks, dobbs. When will you ride next- I'm getting an itchy trigger finger and want to know if I should get one of thoes, or splurge for a Dionette XML-3

Are you sure it's brighter? Do you have a camera with manual exposure controls? I'd love to see the difference. The only thing I could think of that might make them different is quality control, overheating LEDs, or perhaps the battery.

Skidad: have you seen how much run time you get out of that pack?

About my only concern with the 856 is the sharp edges...it might be bad in a crash. It seems like it would cool better while moving, but maybe not as well while stopped.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

dobbs said:


> Alright dudes, partially out of curiosity I bought an MJ-856 lighthead to go with my MJ-872. After receiving it yesterday and playing with it last night, I have dubbed it "the one light to rule them all." It dissipates heat better, has a slightly warmer color temperature, and appears to me to put out about 30% more light than the MJ-872. Stunning. Will try to do a night ride this week with both of them and will comment more if anything is notable.
> 
> I bought it from these guys:
> 
> ...


I'm looking foreward to your next post. My first question is did you buy just the light head (I didn't see that option on the brightstone website) or a whole new set? I also would like your opinion (or anyone elso who owns an 856 or 872) of the trailshot in this years light comparison. I was a little disapointed in the throw and I also noticed that the lumin output of the 872 was consideratly lower than last years Light-N-Go Foride (MS 856). I know it's a flood but it looks weaker that other beamshots I've seen of this light. Please let me know what you thing.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

@dam said:


> ...
> Are you sure it's brighter? Do you have a camera with manual exposure controls? I'd love to see the difference. *The only thing I could think of that might make them different is quality control, overheating LEDs, or perhaps the battery.*
> ...


LED binning may be different as well, R5 instead of R4


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

@dam said:


> Thanks, dobbs. When will you ride next- I'm getting an itchy trigger finger and want to know if I should get one of thoes, or splurge for a Dionette XML-3


I'd go with the XML-3. In fact I just did. Great light, GREAT company. there was just too much doubt swirling around here for me to buy a MS with confidence.


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

For what its worth, I did a 20 mile road ride tonight with the 872, with it on high 90% of the time, and it didn't power down once. Worked great. Plenty of light, at a really neutral color. I love the led indicator that makes it plain as day how much battery life you have left, the simple mounting, the diminutive battery, and the great even flood beam pattern. So far I gotta say this is an unbelievable light for the money.


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## NightBiker (Nov 5, 2010)

jlwardn said:


> I just got my MJ-872 and the only thing I am unsure of is the way it is mounted to the handle bars. We ride at night in an area that is very XC with lots of 1-2ft drops and tons of rocks/tree roots. I don't want the light to be moving. How secure is the O-Ring mounts? What are my options for something more secure?


I had problems with my Magicshine moving around so I got some adhesive backed "traction" tape from the local hardware store, cut a short strip (about enough to wrap half way around the handlebar), peeled off the backing and stuck it to the top half of bar in the position I normally mount the light.

Once the light is positioned on this traction tape and secured with the O-ring there is NO unwanted movement. If you need to adjust the position of the light on the bar rotate it forward or back by pulling up a bit against the resistance of the O-ring.

The traction tape is inexpensive. It's black and has a really rough sandpaper like finish. A 1" wide roll by about 3 ft cost about $4 and should be enough to do dozens of bars or last a lifetime. You can also use it on your wooden deck steps or other areas of the house!


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

XCFred said:


> For what its worth, I did a 20 mile road ride tonight with the 872, with it on high 90% of the time, and it didn't power down once. Worked great. Plenty of light, at a really neutral color. I love the led indicator that makes it plain as day how much battery life you have left, the simple mounting, the diminutive battery, and the great even flood beam pattern. So far I gotta say this is an unbelievable light for the money.


same here....just got back from approx 2 hrs of run time on high 90% of time and the 872 functioned flawlessly. After trying bar mount and helmet mount, I must say this light works best on the bar. The non spot/flood lights the trail left to right evenly really well and just above my front tire up into the trees out front. Again I took off the gloves and touched the light housing during high output and the housing was slightly warm to the touch. Certainly not really hot for sure. I swear you can get away with running this on your bars as a single light source if you had to. I am going to do this for a few more weeks to see how it goes. 
If it runs problem free I may look into the 1000 lumen MJ-808E for the helmet.
Tone~


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

@dam said:


> Skidad: have you seen how much run time you get out of that pack?
> 
> About my only concern with the 856 is the sharp edges...it might be bad in a crash. It seems like it would cool better while moving, but maybe not as well while stopped.


Not sure on the total run time yet. Did a 2 hour ride last night and only had the light on setting 2 and the button light stayed green the majority of the ride. Turned blue towards the end. Next 2 hour ride I'll bump it to level 3. Level 4 is spoiling yourself for the most part with just a huge flood of light. I may run a test in the house with the light on full power with a fan cooling the light head. Very happy so far with this light and not really concerned about the edges in a crash.

I debated between this light and the DiNotte 1200L Plus which is a super nice light (and DiNotte is within easy driving distance). Tough decision but since this was my first light purchase and also buying a helmet light (the new Gemini Xera light) I went the bargain route not knowing if this night thing was for me (it is and super fun). So far I love both lights but time will tell on reliability. Customer service from BrightStone(MS) and Gemini(Xera) has been great.


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## juergenor (Mar 30, 2004)

*Recommended?*

So what it the verdict - is the MJ-872 a light that you guys would recommend?

Thanks

Juergenor


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

juergenor said:


> So what it the verdict - is the MJ-872 a light that you guys would recommend?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Juergenor


*Best affordable bang for your buck I love mine*:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

One more data point, your mileage may vary:

Recently received an 872 from geoman. Light appears very well made...really nice. Took it out to the dark forest behind my place and compared it to my HID niterider from several years ago. This is a very, very bright light. Even though it throws a very even flood, it throws way farther than my HID spot, even at 75%. The quality of the light is excellent too. It is warm and even...much more yellow than my HID.

Unfortunately, it also exhibited some of the same behaviors others have seen. With the panasonic 6Ah geoman battery it quickly indicated blue, despite clearly having a full charge left. 

The main problem, though, was heat. I noticed immediately that the light was kicking down to 75% quite quickly. So, I set up a test: I figure the light should work in 65 degrees with a fan blowing on it (greater apparent wind that on a typical MTB ride). I put the standing fan on low approximately 10 feet in front of the handlebars. The light kicked down to 75% in less than 5 minutes. It is not a noticeable kickdown, it just dims gradually so that you don't notice unless you move it up to high again.

I was bummed. Even though I mainly use lights in the cool fall nights and in the very cold winter months, sometimes I ride at night in the summer to avoid the heat of the day. I know that this light would have issues. I'll be sending the 872 back to give the 856 a shot. I figure a light with at least 2x greater surface area should be better with heat control.


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

Yeah that's what I noticed, too, when I was first using it. When it does dim down, it does so so gradually it is impossible to notice. I actually stared for a minute or two trying to notice it dim, and couldn't, but then if I clicked the up arrow, it got noticably brighter, despite already having been on the brightest setting. Kinda weird.


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## PiranhaFisher (Jul 27, 2009)

In my analysis done [here] I concluded that the MJ-872 was the best value on paper. It's threads like this I really appreciate. I'm hesitant to go with this light as I don't want to gamble ~$200. I'll take a look at the MJ-856 since I read it's the same light with a different housing.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Last nights ride my MJ-872 performed ok.

12-14ºC air temperature, 75%-50% mode uphill, full power downhill, no dimming. I guess its going to be ok.

Can´t say that for my carbon brake lever though. My ribs hurt today.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

batas said:


> last nights ride my mj-872 performed ok.
> 
> 12-14ºc air temperature, 75%-50% mode uphill, full power downhill, no dimming. I guess its going to be ok.
> 
> Can´t say that for my carbon brake lever though. My ribs hurt today.


ouch.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

So is the temperature really an unsolvable problem, or is it due to insufficient thermal paste? I'm looking for a better bar light and the light output looks good but I'd rather not be stuck running at 75% all the time.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I honestly planned from the get-go to run at the second highest power setting, but the times I've run at full power I really didn't think I was missing much at second-highest.


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## PiranhaFisher (Jul 27, 2009)

The MJ-856 looks to be the same light just with a different, potentially better, housing. Anyone test this against the MJ-872?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

PiranhaFisher said:


> The MJ-856 looks to be the same light just with a different, potentially better, housing. Anyone test this against the MJ-872?


It looks like a good light, but I'm leery about buying a new model from a vendor that I've never heard of. At least with Geomangear you know they'll stand behind the product.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

PiranhaFisher said:


> The MJ-856 looks to be the same light just with a different, potentially better, housing. Anyone test this against the MJ-872?


In a day or two, I'll be able to provide that perspective. Unfortunately, I won't have both lights in hand at once. I suppose I could delay returning the 872, but that would be a pain in the arse.


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## semmiho (Jul 29, 2009)

Hm, I cannot access the Light and Go website in the last couple of days by some reason. Anyway, I run an older MJ-808 and MJ-870 combo (my setup: helmet/handlebar) on mountain bike trails, my setup performs very well. My MJ-870 has 'only' 3 XP-Gs and equipped with the old lens, not the new clear one. I used my 870 between 5-15 degrees Celsius (41-59 degrees Fahrenheit), didn't have any heating issues, in spite of the old lens. The beam is quite similar to the MJ-872, but provides a bit less light. The battery lasts about 3 hours at 100% mode, which is far enough for me.
I'm thinking about purchasing an another MJ light as well. Based on your opinions, maybe the MJ-856B would be the best but I cannot order it, brightstonesports.com doesn't ship to my country and it seems the L & Go website is down... Nevertheless, the updated MJ-872 with the new clear lens would be also perfect for me. Do you know guys something about that DealExtreme ships the MJ-872 with the new lens? (Opinions are divided on some forums...)


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## vans380 (Sep 11, 2005)

I bought mine from bikeempowerment.com for $144 shipped. It shipped USPS from CA to the Boston area, and I had it in only two days. Couldn't be happier with the transaction.


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

Just got my 872 and ran it for about 30 min on full power with out any issues. Average speed 10mph, average temp 70F. So far so good and extremely happy.


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## PeterG (Mar 11, 2004)

semmiho said:


> ... Based on your opinions, maybe the MJ-856B would be the best but I cannot order it, brightstonesports.com doesn't ship to my country and it seems the L & Go website is down...


I guess you are from Hungary, so you can order here Magicshine MJ-856B valaisinsarja (tilaus) « Otsa- ja polkupyörävalaisimet « VALAISIMESI.FI for ca. 150.00 EUR shipped (ask at [email protected] or [email protected] for the shipping cost to your country) .


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

I rode with both the 872 and 856 last night. That is a ridiculous amount of light. I cleaned one climb I've only gotten clean at night once before and I cleaned another climb that I've never been able to on previous night rides (but have during the day). 

The temperature was 76 F, and I had no power downs due to heat, even on the climb. I tried running them both at max power on the climb, but it's just too bright, so I ran them both at 70%. I do think that the 856 is brighter than the 872, but the beam is also a little more concentrated, which I don't prefer. Between the two I would definitely buy the 856. It was much cooler to the touch, so I think its heat sink fins work better. 

I will try to do some comparison photos soon.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Did you run them both on the handlebar? Don't forget to put the camera in manual mode


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

William_Cannon said:


> Just got my 872 and ran it for about 30 min on full power with out any issues. Average speed 10mph, average temp 70F. So far so good and extremely happy.


Update:
2nd ride: Temp = 70F to 75F. Average speed = much slower than my first ride.

The 872 did power down from high 3 or 4 times I believe. I noticed a change in light, but being new to night riding I was really concerned with a lot of other things. I know for sure of one power-down on a fast stretch and one on a technical section. For as slow as we were going, I was expecting more power-downs based on the commentary on this board. I'm still really happy with the light - great bang for the buck. As long as I don't have any power-downs from medium-high to medium, I'll continue to be happy. I never felt the need to run it on high. High power gave me a bit more depth perception and more clarity with my surroundings. I can see it's application most useful on technical downhills and areas with overgrown/under-groomed flora.

I will say that when comparing/complementing the 808E, I was expecting the 872 to be brighter. The 808E has an amazing spot and a decent halo. My initial impression is that the 808E washes out a lot of the 872's light. On my next ride, I'll need to stop and play with the different power settings to validate my claim above.

In all, the 872 and 808E combo is great.


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

In all, the 872 and 808E combo is great. 


I think this is what I will be going with too! 
been riding with the 872 only on the bars and I can ride with just that light....it is that bright, but having the 808E on the helmet will complete my night riding needs I'm pretty sure. Having the bar and helmet light will also allow you to extend your ride time by alternating the discharge of either lights on long climbs thus saving discharge time on both lights!


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

dobbs said:


> I rode with both the 872 and 856 last night. That is a ridiculous amount of light. I cleaned one climb I've only gotten clean at night once before and I cleaned another climb that I've never been able to on previous night rides (but have during the day).
> 
> The temperature was 76 F, and I had no power downs due to heat, even on the climb. I tried running them both at max power on the climb, but it's just too bright, so I ran them both at 70%. I do think that the 856 is brighter than the 872, but the beam is also a little more concentrated, which I don't prefer. Between the two I would definitely buy the 856. It was much cooler to the touch, so I think its heat sink fins work better.
> 
> I will try to do some comparison photos soon.


Hmmm...maybe a good test would be to turn both of them on inside and see which one steps down first. That'll partially test thermal mass, but also static heat dissipation and possibly how good the thermal path is.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

Just got my 856 and still had the 872 kicking around because I missed the post office yesterday. Just out of the box, inside, daylight, I thought the 856 was dimmer. I'm not sure if the LED's had to have an initial burn in or something, but the 856 is definitely brighter than the 872 now. Confirmed by both my roommate and girlfriend who couldn't care less. The beam pattern of the 856 is slightly more focused but still a flood. It is also WAY more even. The 872 has more of a center spot that trails off. Even the center of the 872 is not as bright as anywhere on the pattern of the 856. Lastly, the 856 is a bit whiter. Perhaps this could contribute to an optical illusion that it is brighter.

Lighting aside, the heat issue:

The 856 is a bit heftier in the hand and is certainly larger. Just turning it on inside on high, it did heat up quite a bit and kick down. The good news, though, is that it passed my indoor fan test. The 872 kicked down in less than 5 minutes under the fan. The 856 never kicked down under the fan. It was warm, but not overly hot. You could feel that the rear of the lamp was quite a bit cooler than the front, indicating that the cooling fins do indeed work. On 75% under the fan, the 856 was gently warm.

Brightstone sports was great to work with, quickly responded to emails, and shipped out my light with the 5.6 Ah battery before they were supposed to be back in stock. Gave me the 5% discount too.

Beam pic with iphone. Both fully charged batteries, despite blue indicator of 872. 872 on left, 856 on right. I think the photo exaggerates the difference a bit.


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Thanks! Sorry GeoMan- looks like I'm going with the 856.

Is there a code for the 5% discount?

How long did the 872 take to kick down without the fan? It seems like the T-shaped fins on the 856 might actually keep the thing warmer unless it has air moving over it.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

Does the 856 have the (clear) 25 degree optic? Edit: It does

The beam of the 856 seems a little better but honestly after what Geoman has done they have my business for life (when buying magicshines). Even if that light is slightly better I'd rather have the Geoman battery and Geoman customer service for a little more money.


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

More info:

Just tried both lights at night. Yes the 856 is brighter by a bit. And the pattern is different. The 856 is a bit more even, but the 872 is more soothing for some reason...maybe a bit more yellow. Very similar, in any case.

The cooling fins DEFINITELY work. The 856 was warm enough to kick down from me standing in a field comparing beams. I rode down the street still on high in 50 degrees, and it was only slightly warm after <30 seconds. A similar first experience with 872 proved that it does not do that.

Obviously I have not tested battery life, but IMO I like the magicshine 5.6 Ah from brightstone more. First of all, the battery life indicator actually works...not just kicking down to blue and then back up to green all the time. I also like the foam rubber case/strap setup better. Very secure and easier on bike finish.

Summary: 856 > 872, but only slightly.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Dogdude222 said:


> and girlfriend who couldn't care less.


Funny. So baffling that no matter how much we educate they just never understand what's so obviously "cool"

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Dogdude222 said:


> .....Lighting aside, the heat issue:
> 
> The 856 is a bit heftier in the hand and is certainly larger. Just turning it on inside on high, it did heat up quite a bit and kick down. The good news, though, is that it passed my indoor fan test. The 872 kicked down in less than 5 minutes under the fan. The 856 never kicked down under the fan. It was warm, but not overly hot. You could feel that the rear of the lamp was quite a bit cooler than the front, indicating that the cooling fins do indeed work. On 75% under the fan, the 856 was gently warm.
> 
> ...


DD, you sold me. Not that I'm going to buy an 856 but if I was in the market and vacillating between the two I would get the 856. These are also using the standard O-ring mounting so that's a big plus over the earlier models. I love Geoman as a web vendor but if the 856 is better I'd rather go with the over-all better light. ( to my eyes it looks like the 872 has a wider beam. Likely the 856 has better throw but a tad less out to the sides. Personally I'd like that better. )

Now about the battery: I looked at the brightstonesports web site but I don't see any numbers on the listed battery pack. DD, You mentioned it being 5.6mAh but I can't find that listing. ( if you see it on there please point it out, thanks ) Still, I'd buy it regardless. Even if the standard battery was less than the Geoman standard 4.5mAh pack.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> ...You mentioned it being 5.6mAh but I can't find that listing. ( if you see it on there please point it out, thanks )...


MagicShine Samsung 5600 mAh Battery Pack


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

gmcttr said:


> MagicShine Samsung 5600 mAh Battery Pack


On that link above it shows out of stock.....but if you go to their home page it's now listed as back in stock

BrightStoneSports - MagicShine Bike Light and Accessories | Magic Shine MJ-808 | MJ-808e | MJ-816 | MJ-818 | MJ-856 | MJ-872 | ...

The 5600mAh Samsung battery upgrade is a no brainer IMO and what I got with my 856. More power, great harness mount and less bulky than that odd LCD battery that comes with some of the MS lights. I'm sure GeoMans battery is great also but he doesn't carry the 856 light and I believe I made the right choice getting the 856 over the 872. Highly recommend BrightStone also.

Don't be afraid of getting the 856 with the bracket mount that places the light over the center of the stem. It's actually pretty darn nice IMO and I did a few simple mods to it that I think make it a bit more secure. So far it's been great in some very bouncy, rocky terrain and it really doesn't sit up that high. Kind of just high enough to not have to shine through cables. No big drops for me though where perhaps the o-ring mount might be more secure.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

The guy here at BikeEmpowerment.com makes a nice solid mount for many of the MagicShine models. It's basically a clamp style bar mount that screws into the lighthead base right where the standard O-ring mount goes. You take off the O-ring mount and screw in the new mount. Pretty cool!

Mount video: 





He also sells a lot of models of the MagicShine, but sadly not the 856. He has also posted up a few other video reviews of the MS lights. The price of his 870 is just $120.

So for those who have the 870, 872, or 856 do you think it's a good upgrade over the old P7 MJ808? I have two of those right now, but would like a nice floody bar light. The 870 looks great and is just $120 from BikeEmpowerment, while the 856 is $156 from BrightStoneSports. Is it really worth the extra $36 and is the extra brightness that noticable?


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Has anyone used thermal paste or aluminum shims to create a more efficient thermal transfer between the internal case and external housing?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

What do you mean? The outer casing (with the fins) fits very tight on the outside of the body. You can´t put anything in between. I tryed to put thermal past, no good.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Batas said:


> What do you mean? The outer casing (with the fins) fits very tight on the outside of the body. You can´t put anything in between. I tryed to put thermal past, no good.


I had no idea how tight it was, but thought the heat issue might be due to poor heat transfer. So what was "no good" about the thermal paste? Not enough room, or did it not help, or?


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

*Lighthead weights*

I looked on the review this thread was spawned from and didn't see any weights reported. Just curious if anyone has weights of the various MS model lightheads. I've read on this forum several reports that the 856 is "heftier", just wondering how it compares to 808, 870, 872. All weights I've been able to find online include the battery, so it's tough to compare with different batteries.

Thanks


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Well, both. It is so tight that when you push the outer ring back to place, the thermal paste comes out.

I reaplied good quality thermal paste between the star and the body. The problem isnt from that. I believe that the body isnt design too dissipate that ammount of heat, or the thermal protection kicks to soon.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

icycle said:


> I looked on the review this thread was spawned from and didn't see any weights reported. Just curious if anyone has weights of the various MS model lightheads. I've read on this forum several reports that the 856 is "heftier", just wondering how it compares to 808, 870, 872. All weights I've been able to find online include the battery, so it's tough to compare with different batteries.
> 
> Thanks


*Seeing I have a scale available I figured I would see what these do weigh, these are with there rubber bands I was not expecting this :thumbsup: now if someone will weigh their 856 
MS872








MS808







*


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## icycle (Apr 20, 2004)

Rakuman said:


> *Seeing I have a scale available I figured I would see what these do weigh, these are with there rubber bands I was not expecting this :thumbsup: now if someone will weigh their 856*


Thanks! It looks like 872 == 101g and 808 == 104g. Since I posted, I found your post from earlier today (http://forums.mtbr.com/8565979-post3.html) where you said the 856 is 23g heavier than the 872, so that'd put it ~124g. Where'd you get the 23g number from?


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

icycle said:


> thanks! It looks like 872 == 101g and 808 == 104g. Since i posted, i found your post from earlier today (http://forums.mtbr.com/8565979-post3.html) where you said the 856 is 23g heavier than the 872, so that'd put it ~124g. Where'd you get the 23g number from?


*Geoman*


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## mochodurazo (Nov 29, 2008)

Tested my GEOMANS 2600 combo (872 &808E) yesterday.

And wow!!!! that was ver impresive. Nice flood on the 872, the throw starts just in front your tire. 808E has a hugh halo and big center spot. I find very useful to have both light, 872 in the bars, and 808E in the helmet.

I must say, this was my first time using a helmet light, and i was riding like kid with his new toy....

I alway ride in the lower levels, just for caution, and hit the higher beams for the Donwhills. I also found the 2600 (theorical) lumens, was to much for tight and technical DH.

Speaking in heat disipation, was riding on 77 F, and both of the lights got little hot. touch them with my forearm. no thermal protection needed.

Was a 1:30 ride. Both 6.0mA batterys endend in the green color range.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just ordered the 872 from GeoManGear. Despite the potential heat issues, the 6.0Ah battery built in the USA and the proven customer service is a winning combo. This will go on the bars with a MJ808 on the helmet.


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## bluewave (Apr 3, 2011)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> Just ordered the 872 from GeoManGear. Despite the potential heat issues, the 6.0Ah battery built in the USA and the proven customer service is a winning combo. This will go on the bars with a MJ808 on the helmet.


I ordered the 872 from Geoman for the same reasons. The heat issue doens't appear to be a factor where I live. And to be honest, the 3 highest settings aren't that different. The lowest setting drops down quite a bit, but the higher three are very similar to me.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

bluewave said:


> I ordered the 872 from Geoman for the same reasons. The heat issue doens't appear to be a factor where I live. And to be honest, the 3 highest settings aren't that different. The lowest setting drops down quite a bit, but the higher three are very similar to me.


That's good to hear. Here in northern California the heat is only really an issue on summer nights. This time of year it's 60-70F at the beginning of my night rides and down into the upper 50s by the end. I don't imagine overheating will be a factor, and if it does power down to 70% that will still be plenty of light.

I picked up a solid bar mount from Chris @ BikeEmpowerment.com as well. My 808 bounces around on the bars during really rough sections, so hopefully the new mount will solve that problem.


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## mochodurazo (Nov 29, 2008)

TwoHeadsBrewing said:


> That's good to hear. Here in northern California the heat is only really an issue on summer nights. This time of year it's 60-70F at the beginning of my night rides and down into the upper 50s by the end. I don't imagine overheating will be a factor, and if it does power down to 70% that will still be plenty of light.
> 
> I picked up a solid bar mount from Chris @ BikeEmpowerment.com as well. My 808 bounces around on the bars during really rough sections, so hopefully the new mount will solve that problem.


did you ordered for the 872? the pic its for the 808 and you said that 808 would use it on the helmet.

I also ordered, the mount adaptor for the 872. No bounce at all.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I did order the 872 mount, which has a longer, flatter mounting area where is screws into the light. Can't wait to have a nice solid mount and >1000 lumens OTL of floody light!


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## mtbcrazee (Nov 17, 2010)

have any of you seen the handlebar mount Magiclight is doing for all Magicshine lights? assume it will replace current o ring mounting system .... about time


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I got my solid bar mount today from BikeEmpowerment.com AND my new MJ-872. I'll be heading out shortly for a night ride and will be taking some comparison photos. I'll post back when I have them online.


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## XJaredX (Apr 17, 2006)

I also have the bikempowerment 872 mount. The only thing I did was add a lock washer between the light head and mount to make it fit slightly better, because the light didn't sit flush against the mount, he didn't grind away enough clearance. Not a big deal though. Plus I substituted a #6-32 x 1/2" machine screw for the original screw that came with the light, so I could have a few more threads, because the new mount was slightly thicker even with his boring out the hole.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Here's the pics of my MJ-872 and mount. The mount worked perfectly for me, no modification needed. I'm pretty stoked about having a light that doesn't move around.

http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/magicshine-mj-872-a-747614.html


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## shemers (Apr 22, 2010)

I ordered the MJ856 on Monday from brightstonesports.com and received it on Thursday. I have had one night ride and it's an amazing upgrade from my old ms900. Here are the weights:

MJ856 - 118g, 
MS900 - 108g, 
MS 5.6Ah Battery - 297g, 
Old GMG MS (recalled) Battery - 325g. 

Pics are at photobucket.com/shemersMSLights (I don't have enough posts to insert pics here). I included a stack of 21 quarters as a control if anyone wants to check my scale.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just did another night ride last night, and have to say that the MJ-872 is one amazing light. It's ridiculously bright on high, on 70% it's as bright as my MJ-808, and is still plenty bright for medium speeds on 50%. The lowest setting is perfect for slow climbs, and conserves battery life.

Rode some really fast technical descents with tight corners and lots of brush, and never felt the need to slow down. Going from running two MJ-808's this is a BIG upgrade and totally worth the cost.


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

same here on the MJ-872.....using as a bar light (only light) and I have found that I am comfortable with the 75% setting for most riding and even the 50% setting for a tad slower stuff. Don't really need to us the 100% setting if at all! One bright light......


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

It looks like you would need to put paste between the smooth body and the heatsink where they slide together. That can't be a very tight fit, plus two layers of anodizing?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

gticlay said:


> It looks like you would need to put paste between the smooth body and the heatsink where they slide together. That can't be a very tight fit, plus two layers of anodizing?


The separate heat sink section is a weak point by my way of thinking. They should have just made it out of one piece and machined the fins like the front section. The problem with consumers attempting to apply a thermal compound is that the heat sink can't be removed without desoldering the power cord.

With that said....I still like my MJ-872 very much.:thumbsup:


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

I got my 856 yesterday and had it on the trail within hours. Awesome! It's not much bigger than my 808, but DAMN does it blast out a lot of light. Low is fine for climbing, and 50-75 are fine most of the time. 100 is just blazing. The beam is so wide and bright that this could be an only light, even mounted on the bar. I had lent out my 808, so I had a MiNewt on my head and I could barely tell the thing was on.



I'd shut it off while stopped to save battery, but it never got warm to the touch. It was cool out though- maybe mid/low 40's. I ran it stationary on a table for 15 minutes when I got home and it got a bit toasty, but not too much warmer than my 808- especially considering how much more light it was putting out. It didn't get warm enough to step the power down.


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## Tone No Balone (Dec 11, 2004)

Adam
wanna git Hi?


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## junghuneee (Nov 7, 2009)

*Has anyone had overheating issue with Magicshine MJ-872??*

So I ordered my mj-872 on ebay, did some night riding around town at night to test it out first.

First, I noticed the battery indicator showed up 'Blue' instead of 'Green', and didn't last more than an hour(claimed 2hr run time with 100% brightness)

Here comes the real problem.

After about a minute, the light head was overheated and the brightness stepped down to the lower level(75%)
Please note that I was riding on the road(and It was about 15 degrees Celsius outside, more than enough to keep the light head cool) It stayed at the 75% brightness, and never returned to 100% max-output automatically, and the light head was just too to even touch.

The package was returned for a replacement set after testing it three times. Waiting for the new set to arrive in a day or two.
I'm just hoping that it was NOT the design flaw since their 14day return policy has passed.

Had anyone had the same overheating issue??


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

Read the light shoot out thread. The mtbr tests showed the same problem. Magishine has another light (856?) that has larger heat conduction fins. It may work better.


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## dobbs (Jan 12, 2004)

Yes, overheating is a major problem for my 872. I bought an 856 and it's perfect, even in Arizona.


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## junghuneee (Nov 7, 2009)

Oh... I should have got 856 instead 

Thanks



dobbs said:


> Yes, overheating is a major problem for my 872. I bought an 856 and it's perfect, even in Arizona.


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## junghuneee (Nov 7, 2009)

I got my MJ-872 on ebay, and returned it for several issues

First, it seriously overheats the head lamp(decreased brightness to 75% power), and won't cool it off even while riding at night(15deg. celsious) 
Second, the battery didn't last long as they claim(only lasted 1hr from full-charge)
Third, Battery indicator didn't work correctly(maybe also related to the battery issue)

Today, I got a replacement unit from the seller
guess what. 
Now the charger makes strange noise that sounds like liquid boiling inside. haha :madman:
I contacted the seller and said i would get my money back.



skidad said:


> I was informed this 856 light has the exact same beam pattern (25 degree) as the new 872with clear optic...however due to it's design and slightly larger size (4.6mm larger outer diameter) it has better cooling which is obviously an issue with the 872. Currently it's really a bar mount light and comes with a neat bracket but they are working on an o-ring mount and well..people are creative. Maybe not as spiffy looking as the 872 but I'm fine with that if it cools better and doesn't overheat. Thoughts....
> 
> Anyone have any feedback on the new MS 5.6ah battery pack with Samsung cells? Basic hard case with no back lit display...fine by me.


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## junghuneee (Nov 7, 2009)

Today, I got a replacement unit from the seller
guess what. :eekster:
Now the charger makes strange noise that sounds like liquid boiling inside. :madman:
It seemed like it would explode any second, so i had to unplug it 
I contacted the seller and said i would get my money back.



dobbs said:


> Yes, overheating is a major problem for my 872. I bought an 856 and it's perfect, even in Arizona.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your 872 saga. Haven't had any issues with my 856 although anytime I stop for more than 30 seconds I'll turn all my lights down to low power. More to conserve battery than an overheating issue but I guess there is always that concern. I've never seen it step down while out riding and moving. Good little unit. (I should also add that I almost never run it at the highest setting except maybe near the end of a ride for kicks and giggles. 1 to conserve battery and 2 as it's sometimes almost to bright as weird as that sounds)

Action LED Action-LED-Lights - MJ-856 with O-ring mount

They also have it listed for $99 with the original QR mount (although not shown in the picture) which places the light directly in the center in front of the stem.

Highly recommend spending the additional $17 for the upgraded 5600mAh Samsung battery pack

Brightstone Sports is where I bought my 856. They were the only one carrying it at the time I purchased. Their customer service has been outstanding answering questions quickly and replacing for free my QR mount when it broke. Now using the o-ring mount as the QR mount needs a few mods to be totally secure IMO.

MagicShine MJ-856b O-ring mount 1600 lumens LED Bike Light Set


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## C.M.S (Aug 28, 2009)

Two of these should do the trick @ 15 bucks and most of us have batteries already .

USA Stealth Black 1600 LM 4 CREE XP G LED Bike Light Light Head Only 872 A | eBay


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