# anodising at the home



## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Found this on another forum I visit...looks like we can all anodise without the worry of hydraulic acid in the kitchen..
Anodizing and dying aluminum without battery acid - Observations


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

13% H2So4 + 5a current is pretty much it for home anodising. Ofcourse you need some Al wire and some other Al stuff, but not much. It's pretty much one single bath and some splash of water in the end


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Interesting read, thanks!

I don't understand how a process with lower voltage, lower current and a weaker solution will produce the same final result? I don't doubt it works, just can't see how it's possible!

Anyhow, if you are looking or sulphuric acid, try a motorcycle mechanic. Take some biscuits and ask nicely! I got 4 single 1 litre containers. Also, use distilled or de-ionised water. Save you getting water marks on the anodised piece. 

GD, I have an unlimited supply of de-ionised water and you can have a litre of acid. I'm only up the road in Suffolk. You can pick it up if you're ever uo this way and need any. 

I've modded a car battery charger to supply 12v 9A. Oh yeah, got loads of aluminium for cathode too. Its cleaner than using lead as lead tends to have impurities.

Let me know if you need any!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

piesoup said:


> Interesting read, thanks!
> 
> I don't understand how a process with lower voltage, lower current and a weaker solution will produce the same final result? I don't doubt it works, just can't see how it's possible!
> 
> ...


Have you been doing your own anodising? anychance of some pics of what you've managed to achieve please?
I'm up for doing it myself, just need to get the bits or by the kit from gatorosplating..any advice?

Thanks for the offer on the water + acid


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

So come on guys lets see how you are doing your anodising? can we also see your setups please?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

While searching the net for variable power supply's I came across this guide on how to convert a PC PSU into a 1.5-24v variable power supply...
Convert A Computer Power supply to a Variable Bench Top Lab Power Supply

This should do fine for anodising...


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

i bought all bits to home anodize but havnt plucked the courage up to have a go just yet im going to use a cb radio power suply.
si


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK its not easy understanding from just reading the less than 100 % complete info on various websites

this is useful a 720 rule calculator  sort of played with it today and an old housing 
( good source of test pieces the failed project bin )

had good results but no dye to use so a nice plain silver ano was achieved

going to have another play tomorrow and will get a few pics hopefully


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Looking forward to your pics Chris...If you want the proper dyes you can get them from ebay..
Black
Gold
Blue
Red
Green
Orange
Violet/Purple

I'll be using these dyes...

I know i said lets keep the links to a minimum on how to anodize, but this is the best guide I've found so far,,so hopefully it might help
Anodizing Aluminum


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK the alchemy started this morning following the rules as close as possible .

old housing that never reached conclusion gave it a bit of a polish on the buffing wheel 
and from now on it should not get touched with the bare hands .










next as I had no degreaser I mixed up a dishwasher solution and got cooking I might add mrs Troutie was fast asleep so knows nothing about the misuse of her cooker.

used a new paint brush to scrub it in the hot cleaner










then a rinse in clean water ok the instructions say distilled or de ionised water but I have none so the good old rain water will have to do










it should then have had a dip in caustic solution and then a desmut but neither are available at the moment and not needed for this trial .
But on inspection it did pass the water break test and looked squeaky clean .

In to the dangerous stuff now and the 720 rule calculator said 
13.5 sq inches so it needed .56 amps and a peak voltage of 15v for 120 mins










so using the bench supply on CC .56 is dialed in and you can see the starting voltage










I assume and have read that the volts will look after them selves 
and bubbles started to rise so it must be doing something

EDIT- 45 minutes in and the voltage is 9.3 volts the case doesnt look any different

a


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Have you got a good connection to the housing?

Chris, is this your power supply? Bench Power Supply with LCD Screen Free Delivery : Bench Power Supplies : Maplin
How many amps can it put out? maplins site says 0-0.5amps?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Have you got a good connection to the housing?
> 
> Chris, is this your power supply? Bench Power Supply with LCD Screen Free Delivery : Bench Power Supplies : Maplin
> How many amps can it put out? maplins site says 0-0.5amps?


Yep its twisted into a threaded hole so an excellent connection

yes it is that power supply and they have a typo its 5 amps and 20 volts .

one thing I have noticed as I check it avery 15 mins is it should be agitated according to the instructions and when I stir it the voltage goes up a few points


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yep its twisted into a threaded hole so an excellent connection
> 
> yes it is that power supply and they have a typo its 5 amps and 20 volts .
> 
> one thing I have noticed as I check it avery 15 mins is it should be agitated according to the instructions and when I stir it the voltage goes up a few points


I'm not sure you ampage is enough..admit i havent done the maths..but my understanding was that it should be high to start with then drop down?
I got this email last night from gatoros plating, i sent them a pic of my light just to show them the size of things i'm looking to anodise..and asked the question of power supply
Here's there reply:
_The ideal power supply you want is a variable bench top unit.
The amperage of the unit is down to the size of the parts you want to anodise.
Looking at that light a 10 amp should be more than enough.
You need about a 150 miliamps per square inch of surface area.

You can get a watson unit for about £60 from waters and Stanton.

You can just use a 12v battery charger or battery. 
It is a crude way to anodise but what it does is draw a high amount of amperage for a start then slowly drops down as the surface anodises and becomes non conductive.
To be quite honest there is not a huge difference in finish between using a 12V battery charger or a bench top power supply!!!_


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I thought that about the amps but and that is where a lot of differing methods abound on the web 

one lot of calcs had a sample of similar size at 1.5 amps .

but reading the caswell forum and the 720 rule 
6 amps per square foot thats 144 square inches .

my little piece is 13 square inches I dont want to do lots or large quantities just single cases .

any ways time is up on the acid bath so its now rinsing in the rainwater bath again .

Wish I had some dye now as that would be good to see if it would take 
wifes gone to work so off into the boudoir to see any hair dye about .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> I thought that about the amps but and that is where a lot of differing methods abound on the web
> 
> one lot of calcs had a sample of similar size at 1.5 amps .
> 
> ...



Lets hope there's no ginger hair dye
What color is your light...well thats ones a blonde and that ones a brunette..

Any pics of the piece ano'ed?

I've just order my ano kit with Gold and Black dyes..should have got blue to match my hope hubs on my bike 
Hopefully they will be here for the weekend...just need to sort out the power supply..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thats gingerist :nono:

yep just washed it and looking good to me darent touch it yet dont want greasy prints on it



















yes going to order some dye today from your links


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Sorry...Im not gingerist but prefer a red head 

I ordered direct off there site...Gateros Plating, Zinc plating kits, Nickle plating kits, Chrome plating kits, Cleaning kits, Aluminium plating and all your plating supplies.

That does look good...:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ha found some yellow food dye in the cupboard


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Any idea why the dye didnt take evenly? do you reckon its just the dye?


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

You should also etch the piece in caustic soda in the middle of the wash cycle. Only about ten seconds in simmering caustic solution. Remember gloves and goggles, if not a full face shield. Nasty stuff. It will give a very slight matt finish but the colour seems to hold better. 

Uneven colour distribution is usually due to the cleaning process. 

BTW, rain water IS distilled!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

piesoup said:


> You should also etch the piece in caustic soda in the middle of the wash cycle. Only about ten seconds in simmering caustic solution. Remember gloves and goggles, if not a full face shield. Nasty stuff. It will give a very slight matt finish but the colour seems to hold better.
> 
> Uneven colour distribution is usually due to the cleaning process.
> 
> BTW, rain water IS distilled!


Yes I have been phoning around looking for some caustic tried all over and it was in a little diy shop in our village and cheap too .
Freddy kruger lookalikey here i come .


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

I found it in the same place, a village iron mongers!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Boy that stuff sure likes aluminium yum yum .

Happy now I think I have got the theory sorted and just need to be surgical with the prep 

just done another scrap piece and it went well using the 720 rule calculator this time it was a larger one and needed 1.3 amps .

did not polish it just a clean with wire wool and a fizz in the caustic .

ordered some dye so the wait begins .


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

crumbs Dangermouse!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Here is what it does to anodised ali so imagine it on your flesh


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

Iridite as an option ,...
just a couple of thoughts,..
first a note:
The actual anodizing treatment bath produces hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide gases. One, very explosive, the other toxic.

stil don't like the idea of pumping current into a acid bath !
if I got to play with acid, definitely don't like to watch it for hours, and listen to the humm of 
the lab power supply transformer.

alternative, think, a non-hexavlent chem coat, aka chromate ,  what is done in about 30 seconds,
sounds much better.
definitely not as strong as a hard ano, but diy , is not really hard ano , is it ?
--
just don't think, it's practical or safe to , with the diy anodizing.
to do all that work , for a couple of proto's . 
---
there is also , duplicolor metalcast, yes it's paint, but it comes in color.
usually , the rides happen in the dark,... 
---
other notes, 
anodizing, makes the surface ruff.
a lot's of the cheap stuff, gets a clear coat, to make it shinny and smooth.
what reduces the heat transfer. 
oh, those nice anodized surfaces inside, where the LED is mounted,
reduces the heat transfer by 5-8 times, worst case even more.
and lot's of times the non-colored / dyed alu, is anodized too.
of course the cheap thermal paste is even worse. 
just some thoughts / rambling
cheers, Rob


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

Only hydrogen gas is produced, but with small parts like our lights the amounts are rather small. 
The acid bath isn't consumed during the anodizing process.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

rschultz101 said:


> Iridite as an option ,...
> just a couple of thoughts,..
> first a note:
> The actual anodizing treatment bath produces hydrogen and hydrogen sulfide gases. One, very explosive, the other toxic.
> ...


For someone on a DIY forum you seem to be against it pretty much..
Firstly against people spending money on mills, lathes and various tools for their hack jobs..
Now your negative message on anodising.

Rob this is peoples hobby...most hobby's cost money..
I might as well give up sea fishing and just buy the fish from the supermarket..but where's the fun in that?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Fact Anodising helps heat dissipation ( why anodise a chip heatsink that is never going to be seen inside a computer ) 

And its fun 

Fact Anodising aids glues to adhere to aluminium ( Aircraft parts are anodised before bonding as adhesives dont stick well to raw aluminium. ) 

and its fun 

Oxygen and Hydrogen are released during the anodise process.

for hobby anodising the current is very low could not hear my supply humming .

paints dont stick very well to aluminuim and chip off easier .


Its fun to learn and do this stuff .

Its also cheaper than taking the odd one off to a anodising company 

Jeez Rob stop being a killjoy and have a bit of fun


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

All factory heatsinks are ano'ed. Reason is the aluminum oxide conducts heat worse than the ano. Only hydrogen gas is produced. Don't smoke nearby! Sorry Rob, paint INHIBITS heat flow. So paint your projects if want too.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

after trying to paint an aluminium light housing and having it look like something dug up from a WWI battlefield, I don't think I'll be trying that again. If I could, I'd anodise my housings simply so they don't look like ar$e after a couple of months of use. I think my wife would kill me if I explained what was involved though...


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## tanner72 (Sep 28, 2008)

Gents,

Here is the fruits of my home anodising attempts!

The first go (the black one) was a bit hit and miss and the result wasnt too good. You really need to make sure the part is polished and spotlessly clean - any flaws on the part just get more obvious.

After a few failed attempts I was much happier with the red set though.

The red and black dye were from fleabay and the acid came from a mate who runs a lab.

Notice the hi-tech tuppaware tank and the roofing lead cathode....

I found that a quick dip (30 seconds max) in hot caustic soda (gloves, goggles, hose on standby!) was required followed by a rinse and straight into the acid for an hour. Any longer in the soda and the finish result was much duller, but the finish on the red set is super shiny Mr Schultz... 

For a power source I just used an old car battery charger (not an auto type just a cheap simple 12v transformer) so I couldn't control the current at all.

..then into the dye for about ten mins followed by a few minutes in boiling water to seal the thing up (best make sure the Mrs is out when you do this in her kitchen).

The biggest issue I had was getting a good connection between the aluminimum wire and the part - several parts 'lost' contact during the process and had to be done again.

Also be careful of any press fit parts or very fine threads..... The soda attacks the ally and eats away at it...!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Excelent Mr Tanner :thumbsup:

how long in the acid bath with the current flowing


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## rschultz101 (Oct 5, 2009)

not against it,
just an optimistic , pessimist . ( or Murphy's Law, get's you every time)

Do recall, 
- ruined shirts , ( holes in them)
- singed nose
- melted fingers
- lost smell
- various burns, between, chemicals and electrical,..

just looking for alternatives, possible safer.
did find, pemco makes some dyes, but only found it by the bucket, what is expensive.
maybe anodizing dyes will work.
Do think non-hexavalent chromate on alu might be easier and safer.
think Green (enviroment), yellow my favorite color . 
(typical, Iridite colors, thought there is some nice rainbow blue too)
they do use Iridite on guns, for a long time, long before anodizing got popular ,...
oh, and some of those military boat lights, ... are actually powder-coated.

I might be right, I might be wrong, I do hope so.
As long, as it makes you think, and I do like it with Händlmaier Mustard.
cheers, Rob



Goldigger said:


> For someone on a DIY forum you seem to be against it pretty much..
> Firstly against people spending money on mills, lathes and various tools for their hack jobs..
> Now your negative message on anodising.
> 
> ...


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers for the post Tanner:thumbsup:

Does anyone know why i couldnt use this power supply?
O-FS-PS200ADJ - FUSION 200W / 15A ADJUSTABLE POWER SUPPLY


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

That red looks great Tanner. What kind of voltage/amps does your manual charger put out? I have a 6V 2A manual setting on mine and wondered if the 2A will be too much? 
What kind of dye from ebay? 
and where are you guys getting your aluminum wire?
This looks very promising!
thanks,
Andy


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

This might help the how long in the acid solution question..
*How long do I leave it in the anodizing bath?*
The anodizing layer will build up at a rate based on the sulphuric acid solution you used. If you are using a 10% solution, it will take 3.6 minutes for every micron (.00004 in) of anodzing layer to form. For a 15% solution, it will take 2.4 minutes per micron. These times are based on a 15 amp per square foot of surface area on the part. The thicker your anodizing layer, the harder it will be to scratch. There is a maximum layer thickness that keeps you from making your aluminum part into a ceramic however. The anodizing process no longer adds any thickness after about 25 microns, or .001". The voltage and amperage requirements to make it thicker skyrocket at this point.

Maximum thickness will be achieved by anodizing for 60 minutes at a 15% solution, or for 90 minutes at a 10% solution.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

you know, I'm sure we have a big bottle of sulphuric acid kicking around in the lab somewhere.... <starts thinking>


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

_deleted_


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> you know, I'm sure we have a big bottle of sulphuric acid kicking around in the lab somewhere.... <starts thinking>


Dont worry if you cant find sulphuric acid..according to this url the electrolytic solution can be almost any liquid capable of carrying current. Such diverse solutions as Coca-Cola, Sparex, sulfuric acid, ammonium sulfate (fertilizer), magnesium sulfate (Epsom salts), trisodium phosphate, dish detergents and even wine will work. Recommended here is a solution of 3 to 10% by weight trisodium phosphate (T.S.P.) in solution with distilled water
trisodium phosphate is normally used for anodising titanium..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> after trying to paint an aluminium light housing and having it look like something dug up from a WWI battlefield, I don't think I'll be trying that again. If I could, I'd anodise my housings simply so they don't look like ar$e after a couple of months of use. I think my wife would kill me if I explained what was involved though...


If you mean looking like this ar$e then i wouldnt anodise any of my lights


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## tanner72 (Sep 28, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Excelent Mr Tanner :thumbsup:
> 
> how long in the acid bath with the current flowing


Thanks Troutie!

I left them in for about an hour - you should see the acid start to take on a pink tinge around the parts, which is a good sign apparently.

The ally wire was also from fleabay.


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Here is a DIY variable voltage / current power supply. 30v 3A. 
Electronics Lab - Community
The above is a HUGE thread about the PS. Have a read though to keep up with the updates to the board design. It looks simple to make, if we can find all the parts easily. Making the PCB looks the hardest. Maybe there's some software out there to help out. 
0-30 VDC STABILIZED POWER SUPPLY WITH CURRENT CONTROL 0.002-3 A
This is a description as to how it works, but with the first designs, that have been superseded by the one I linked to.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

piesoup said:


> Here is a DIY variable voltage / current power supply. 30v 3A.
> Electronics Lab - Community
> The above is a HUGE thread about the PS. Have a read though to keep up with the updates to the board design. It looks simple to make, if we can find all the parts easily. Making the PCB looks the hardest. Maybe there's some software out there to help out.
> 0-30 VDC STABILIZED POWER SUPPLY WITH CURRENT CONTROL 0.002-3 A
> This is a description as to how it works, but with the first designs, that have been superseded by the one I linked to.


Thanks...ill have a read through all that, but like you said it will probably be easier to by the fusion power supply..
How many amps am i likely to need at most, Gatoros plating recommended i get a 10amp power suppply, but also said 150 miliamps per square inch of surface area...

When we calculate the surface area, do we calculate just the outside, or all the surfaces including holes for the leds and driver?


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

I'm swaying more towards the fusion PS too! It'd be fun to build but a pain to source everything. I've read about the LCD display add on, you have to program the IC which I think is beyond me!

I calculate the SA for any exposed metal. Solidworks does it for me so it's easy. I cover up anything that doesn't need to be anodised. I use polyester tape and RTV sealant. Both acid and high temp proof. It reduces the current needed. I use the black RTV as it's easier to remove. It gets liberated from work so I can find out the exact type when I get in. 
Some cow has parked me in, that's why Im on here!
My big 4 XML has an external SA of 44 sq inches. That needs 6.6A. I havent ano'd that yet as I need to add the 2n3055 to my crude PS.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

piesoup said:


> I'm swaying more towards the fusion PS too! It'd be fun to build but a pain to source everything. I've read about the LCD display add on, you have to program the IC which I think is beyond me!
> 
> I calculate the SA for any exposed metal. Solidworks does it for me so it's easy. I cover up anything that doesn't need to be anodised. I use polyester tape and RTV sealant. Both acid and high temp proof. It reduces the current needed. I use the black RTV as it's easier to remove. It gets liberated from work so I can find out the exact type when I get in.
> Some cow has parked me in, that's why Im on here!
> My big 4 XML has an external SA of 44 sq inches. That needs 6.6A. I havent ano'd that yet as I need to add the 2n3055 to my crude PS.


So the ampage should be fine on the fusion PS, do you think the 15v will be ample?
My ano kit gets delivered today, so i'll probably mess around with the PC PSU untill i get another PS..

Cheers..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yes the 15 volts will be ok. i keep getting a peak voltagenof around 15 

and plenty of amps 

I just pressed the button on one of those fusions. so hopeing its ok 
price is good 

hopinng for some dye to arrive soon too. silver is getting boring. and no food colours left in the kitchen


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> yes the 15 volts will be ok. i keep getting a peak voltagenof around 15
> 
> and plenty of amps
> 
> ...


Cheers troutie..if its good enough for you then i will follow by example..
Did you go for the twin output or the single?

_edit: just looked the twin isnt adjustable_


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

Goldigger said:


> If you mean looking like this ar$e then i wouldnt anodise any of my lights


yeah, one of those sitting on my bars would be a bit distracting. It'd do terrible things to my steering too


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Cheers troutie..if its good enough for you then i will follow by example..
> Did you go for the twin output or the single?
> 
> _edit: just looked the twin isnt adjustable_


Hell I only bought it cos I thought you recommended it :thumbsup:

Dye arrived today some red and some black how do you heat up plastic buckets to 60 c


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hell I only bought it cos I thought you recommended it :thumbsup:
> 
> Dye arrived today some red and some black how do you heat up plastic buckets to 60 c


Gatoros plating said it looked fine, and they were interested in the results i get using it, as it looks like its good for plating..

Heat the dye in a sauce pan...Mrs just phoned me and said asda have sauce pans for £2,50...did i want one..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

In that case dont get aluminium ones as the instructions with the dye say to avoid dissolved aluminium the dye bath as it alters the PH and effects the dye performance


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> In that case dont get aluminium ones as the instructions with the dye say to avoid dissolved aluminium the dye bath as it alters the PH and effects the dye performance


I was just going to get a cheapo stainless one, the ones in asda had a non stick coating...wondered if that would be a problem..?

Have you got a wilkinsons near you?
Wilko Kitchen Milk Pan Stainless Steel 14cm | Milk Pans | | Pots, Pans & Frying from Wilkinson Plus
Wilko Kitchen Saucepan With Lid Stainless Steel 18cm | Saucepans | | Pots, Pans & Frying from Wilkinson Plus


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

you will need 5 litre pans or bigger


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Chris are you using a glass thermometer to measure your temps?

Can you get 5 litres in a 24cm pan?
Wilko Kitchen Casserole With Glass Lid Stainless Steel 24cm | Casseroles | | Pots, Pans & Frying from Wilkinson Plus


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Dye arrived today some red and some black how do you heat up plastic buckets to 60 c


I use the standard kit from these folks Caswell Inc. - LCD Aluminum Anodizing Kit I've been very happy with the results.

It includes the heaters that you use to heat the various solutions. There are actually a few pictures of the anodization process in this post http://forums.mtbr.com/6298286-post1.html Pictures of various colors in this post http://forums.mtbr.com/6439442-post1.html


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Chris, I heat up my dye in the plastic pots on the stove.
Get a saucepan, any type, half fill with water, place a heat insulator on the bottom. I use a silicone spoon rest from a kitchen shop. Bit of wood will do too. Then put your plastic dye pot into the water, ensuring the water doesn't spill over. Then heat up as normal! The water stops the plastic melting on the pan. My glass thermometer from my homebrew beer kit comes in handy to measure the temps. Got the idea from melting chocolate when making brownies!
When I get my camera sorted I'll put up some pics. 

Defo use steel pans for your hot caustic soda solution. Ali non stick ones are fine for everything else, as long as the non stick isn't scratched through to the Ali. 

DG, if you haven't got any Yorkshire rain water, I've got loads of de-ionised water. I'm up in Suffolk but if you're ever up here you can pick some up. Got a few 25 litre drums kicking about.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Nice one Piesoup logged in the memory :thumbsup:


raining like the monsoon here in Yorkshireland so got buckets all over the place harvesting this natural resource.

Read one guy microwaves his dyes but the tanks wont fit in ours .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I've just picked up my anodising kit from my friends, got everything but water...halfords have 5ltr de-inonised water for £4... Now I just need to break in so I can get started
Was hoping sainsburys had some!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

10 more mins on the boil and we'll see my first attempt...


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## tanner72 (Sep 28, 2008)

I microwaved my dye for the first couple of attempts but in the end I just left it at room temperature and it took well.

I also read somewhere that if the dye is too hot it starts to seal the anodised layer before the dye penetrates in.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

So i took this little baby and gave it a going over with wire wool, then polished it up with autosol, even though it already had this treatment when i first made it...but just wanted to get out a few lines that were remaining..









Next i gave it a good wash in washing liquid...
Then into the etch for about 30 seconds, and rinsed with de-inonised water

Then into the desmut...i used it neat, but think it was meant to be diluted..only put it in for about 5 mins..should probably be longer..

Then into the anodising bucket hooked up to the 12v rail on my PC PSU...60mins. Followed by a rinse with de-inonised water
I had no idea how many amps were being sucked up..but did notice the pink colour coming off the ali









Got my dye to 55 deg°C and plonked the 3 parts in for 45mins









While the dying was taking place i got the anoseal up to around 96°C, plonked all 3 parts in and let it sit for 30 mins..

And the final result

......

......


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Bravo:cornut:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

AA++. This just pushes me another step closer to trying my own ano.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

looks good Jay. brave soul did you not do a scrap bit first

how long with the current flowing?

never got the chance to have a go with the dye yesterday and am off on a triail building day today so will be later this week before i get any more done

wich chemical is the desmut. is it nitric acid


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## tanner72 (Sep 28, 2008)

Excellent work Golddigger!

The finish looks great.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> looks good Jay. brave soul did you not do a scrap bit first
> 
> how long with the current flowing?
> 
> ...


Thanks guys..I'm more than pleased with how it came out..

Yep your right Chris I dived straight in with a housing, didn't try it on any scrap as I'm to impatient 

I left it in the ano bath for 60 mins

Here's the desmut which is like you said, nitric acid Gateros Plating, Zinc plating kits, Nickle plating kits, Chrome plating kits, Cleaning kits, Aluminium plating and all your plating supplies.

I did the whole process in the kitchen 
Obviously with the windows open..


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## mfj197 (Jan 28, 2011)

Nice one! The finish looks great. You're a brave man too.


> I did the whole process in the kitchen
> Obviously with the windows open..


...and the Mrs. out? 

Michael


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

mfj197 said:


> Nice one! The finish looks great. You're a brave man too.
> 
> ...and the Mrs. out?
> 
> Michael


Cheers.

Nope I explained to the Mrs what's involved, she went and watched tv in the bedroom while I turned the kitchen into a lab


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

my first atempt hasnt worked but saying that my test part has a harder surface it might have been the acids been sat on the garage shelf it did look a bit discoloured and that has come through on the test part 
















didnt use any dye.
si


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Thwang, not sure how you are doing your set up, cant really tell from the pics. But looks like your cathode is one piece with the wire attached?

I have two cathodes opposite each other in the ano bath, these are connected together by a piece of copper wire. 
The copper wire is secured with a nut and bolt through the cathode, giving a nice secure connection.

Then i just pop the - from the psu to the copper wire with a croc clip, I then attach the + to the ali wire that is attached to the part...


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

GD, think you mean Cathode. Anode is the positive connection and the piece you have made. Cathode is the lead or aluminum on the sides of the tank. 
I was reading up on electro plating, where the anode and cathode are swapped around. Man it's a confusing hobby! I read you can gold plate our lights for not very much money at all!


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi gd 
its 2 pieces - negative to the cathrode and+ positive to the rail that the parts are attached to ordered some fresh battey acid so will try again when they arrive.
thwang
plus will use some better alloy for the cathrode


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## bravellir (Nov 24, 2008)

I never did get to the point of actually anodizing anything, but when I was reading about the process, I do remember something about the advantages of 2 cathodes ( like on GD setup) , one each side of the piece, so that the oxide alu coating it’s done at the same rate all around the piece and the end result is more uniform.


Not sure if it’s true or even makes any sense since the oxidation occurs when oxygen its released by the effect of the electric flow, and.. all the acid solution around the piece its "live", but, electrons do flow from anode to cathode, so.... maybe it makes sense..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Here's the anoseal that comes with my kit...I have no idea whats in it..
But seems to stop dye leaching..
GP Anoseal Anodising Sealer Aluminium Anodise, Anodize | eBay


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow GD, don't get on the forum for a few months and look what happens. Better watch out if the coppers come to your house as they might think your making something illegal. 

Anyway what a brilliant result :thumbsup:. The light looks fantastic and none of those nasty chemicals. The emissivity should also be improved so you can drive the leds a little harder, well thats the theory anyway.

Who would of thought that kitchen towel rolls wipes would make such an excellent backdrop for your photo's. Very professional looking.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> Here's the anoseal that comes with my kit...I have no idea whats in it..
> But seems to stop dye leaching..


Nickel Acetate


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Power supply arrived this morning so doing the first trial



















Seems to be working OK at the moment

got the dye ready for the piece .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Power supply arrived this morning so doing the first trial
> 
> 
> 
> ...


In the kitchen??
Mr's must be out..

Just a thought, i wonder how much resistance is in cathodes and anodes that big?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes :thumbsup: and its dang cold in the garage today too .

Seems to work dyes still on after a 30 minute boil










does seem to be true its all in the preparation 
its a little uneven it places which could I guess be that I have no desmut 
and hell what a difference a little heat makes to the etch bath


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes :thumbsup: and its dang cold in the garage today too .
> 
> Seems to work dyes still on after a 30 minute boil
> 
> ...


For some reason i didnt see that pic earlier...
Looks bloody good Chris..how was the power supply? mines here but not palyed with it yet..
I've also ordered blue and red dye..

As you probably now the desmut removes any impurities on the surface, so your probably right if there's a couple of patchy bits..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Wow GD, don't get on the forum for a few months and look what happens. Better watch out if the coppers come to your house as they might think your making something illegal.
> 
> Anyway what a brilliant result :thumbsup:. The light looks fantastic and none of those nasty chemicals. The emissivity should also be improved so you can drive the leds a little harder, well thats the theory anyway.
> 
> Who would of thought that kitchen towel rolls wipes would make such an excellent backdrop for your photo's. Very professional looking.


Hi Brad, where have you been hiding? Thanks for the complements..
None of them nasty chemicals? Sulphuric acid, nitric acid, caustic


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Jay, been busy at work and trying to get projects completed. 

Anyway with some renewed vigour seeing what's been happening I ordered a 30 volt 5 amp variable power supply this afternoon so I can give the anodizing a go. I have a ready source of battery acid but the more "safe" version is far more appealing.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Nice work lads, boy have I got some catching up to do. If you keep up all of this buying of chemicals, you'll be on the no fly list very soon.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

My power supply arrived, but had something rattling around in it..
after some shaking and tipping a screw fell through one of the gaps in the fan from the inside, and there is still something else loose inside:madman:

Obviously its getting returned!


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Smut is the biggest issue I usually have as well. I scrub all pieces with an old plastic bristled hair brush right before putting them into the acid.

Nice rail you built there Troutie. :thumbsup:

In the Kitchen? Really? I would rather take my chances with the table saw than wife.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes I think I am cooking a bad un at the moment 

made a housing from a block of ali my bro gave me ages ago said it was from the aero industry machined great and is quite hard fo ali 
spent hours on it and sanding wire wool got it nice and shiny double washed it mounted it on the ali wire and washed it again looked good it did have a few small pits but could not get them out 

into the caustic fizzed like a good un then it looked terrible with black bits all over it 

I dont have any desmut so a couple of rinses and its in the acid and leccy .

so am prepared for a mess when I dye it finger and toes crossed.

.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

The aero industry uses 2024 aluminum quite a lot. It has copper in it as one of the primary alloying elements. I would guess that is the alloy you are using and that is the cause of your trouble. There are processes for anodizing 2024, just different from what works on other alloys.


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## Foliveira_pt (Oct 30, 2009)

Anodized is really fascinating, but it seems a little dangerous. And the components are hard to find.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Using the method that Golddigger found seems pretty benign to me compared to traditional anodizing using sulphuric acid etc where fumes can be a real problem and corrosive. 

As for parts you can pick a 5A variable power supply for about $100. Ally wire can be picked up from a local welder. Chemicals from you pool and hardware store and I would get some rubber gloves and a face shield. You don't want anything splashing in you eyes. I always have a solution of baking soda and water when handling acids as it will neutralise them if spilt on yourself or bench.

If anyone is interested I can send you a .pdf manual on traditional anodizing giving methods, chemicals, voltage and amperages etc. (do not think this method would be accepted by your wife on the kitchen bench though)


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Vancbiker said:


> The aero industry uses 2024 aluminum quite a lot. It has copper in it as one of the primary alloying elements. I would guess that is the alloy you are using and that is the cause of your trouble. There are processes for anodizing 2024, just different from what works on other alloys.


Cheers Vancbiker yes its not looking pretty just out of the acid bath and got black dots and patchy bits the black dots certainly were not visible when it went in the bath .

I have popped it in the dye anyway so should see in a hour or so

Nitric acid getting ordered in the morning

:thumbsup: Better than expected


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I don't know troutie but the result looks pretty damn good. :thumbsup: Still, how is your wife still letting you do it in the kitchen?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> I don't know troutie but the result looks pretty damn good. :thumbsup: Still, how is your wife still letting you do it in the kitchen?


Nope this was done in the freezing shed just borrowed the cooker for the sealing and warming the dye bath .

spent ages trying to sand a few pits out and gave up in the end they are still there but gives it that used look :ihih:

maybe should have done it black


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi brad
can you send me the pdf please.
cheers thwang


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

thwang-01 said:


> hi brad
> can you send me the pdf please.
> cheers thwang


PM sent


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Stumbled on this thread over on retrobike, polishing and anodising your bike parts...
retrobike :: View topic - The polishing/Anodizing thread


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## find_bruce (May 8, 2011)

I have always admired your work, but there is just something about the photos that makes me think of a meth lab.

I mentioned the concept of home annodising to SWMBO (who has an honours degree in metallurgy) and lived to tell the tale - I suspect that's only because she thought I was not serious.

Don't let me talk you out of it though - apparently I can continue to admire your work, but only from a safe distance.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Got round to doing another one tonight..
The housing came out just like the last one..so more than happy.

But i added the clamp that goes on my little light and it didnt take the dye properly! the only thing i didnt do the same was to wire wool it and then polish it..
Two attemps on it and it came out the same, more of a gun metal grey rather than black. Will have to etch it and start again!!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Well I set up a system thisafternoon and gave the anodizing a go. Well, if the idea was to create pretty golden bronze piece then yay for me but it should have been black.

Either I didn't wash the caustic off well enough, my cathodes were not actually 6061 alloy or the fabric dye I used was at fault I do not know but I will change the cathode tomorrow for lead and try again with some different black dye.

Here are a couple of picks of today's attempt:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Brad I used some sheet aluminium for my first attempt and while it was ok ish 
the next day I could not get a current to flow at all so replaced the ali for lead and it has been great since


nice jay. looks good. lets see a different colour next


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I've got a run of black to do at the moment..plus I need to go out and get more water as i ran out last night.
One think I have noticed is with the anoseal it leaves chalky marks on the piece, I have to give them a rub over to remove them. Maybe I have mixed in to much with the water.

Chris with the power supply how are you finding it? How do you set the volts and amps?
Last night I needed 2.2 amps and could only acheive that if I set the volts to the max and current limit to 5..

Have you found a place where you can dispose of any of your used chemicals?

I'm gonna try a blue on one of my lights...

have you tried re-anodising any failures? If so what steps did you take?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Well I set up a system thisafternoon and gave the anodizing a go. Well, if the idea was to create pretty golden bronze piece then yay for me but it should have been black.
> 
> Either I didn't wash the caustic off well enough, my cathodes were not actually 6061 alloy or the fabric dye I used was at fault I do not know but I will change the cathode tomorrow for lead and try again with some different black dye.
> 
> Here are a couple of picks of today's attempt:


I got lead cathodes with my kit..I should really make a decent hanger for the anode rather than a piece of lexan with drilled holes in..

Are you going to give that light another go? Is it me or has the light been through the wars on the front end? Looks damaged in the pic..but might just be where the dye didn't take.

How long are you guys etching for?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Yep I'll give the light another go tomorrow. I'll strip it in the caustic 1st and start again. The housing is an old one that I thought would be good for testing. Second time lucky I hope

I ran about 1 amp current based on 30mA per square inch of alloy. The volts take car of themselves. The power supply I bought was from ebay and cost $100. It is a 5A model with 30 volts max, both current and voltage being adjustable. 

You can neutralize your acid solutions with bicard soda. That will make them safe. The drain cleaner solution will just keep your drains clean.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Should the drain cleaner etch solution be replaced on each use or can it be saved and re-used? What about the dye baths?
It seems like most everyone is using plastic pails for the lye and acid. Is virtually any plastic safe to use? What about using the plastic for storage, short term and/or long term for the lye and acid?
Thanks to all, I am getting close
andy


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

You can reuse the etch and dyes, id replace the etch though if you've used it to strip an ano and dye, or if its contaminated from multiple uses.
Same with dyes, you can reuse them and top them up when they start to loose strength. Personally id replace the dye if there's any contamination or its plowing strength.

With the question on on plastic containers, they must be ok as the acid came in one..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Ok here's my atempt at a blue..which came out way to dark.
I thought that some of the colour would leach out leaving it a lighter blue, but not the case.
So i'll have to dilute the blue dye mix for the next run.









Chris next time you use the power supply, measure the amps on the ano tank with a multimeter.
I measured a full 15 when the power supply LCD read 2.6


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Very nice Jay. 

I had another go but only some of the dye took. Back to the drawing board I guess. I have a feeling my ano current might be too low. I'll have another go this afternoon.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Jay you dont need to dilute the dye just the time in the dye bath for a lighter colour 
though it does look very black .

the power supply is now not working since I shorted the contacts.:madman:
so using the benchtop one 

Brad seems to be alot of differing methods to the current 
but they mostly all come to the same 720 amps per square foot for a good layer to take dyes.

it seems Jay is using the higher current but for less time and I am using the caswell LCD method of lower current but for 120 mins as the 720 rule calculator lower down the thread 

both end up with the same result 

Seems the slower you grow the oxide layer the smaller the pores are and with good dyes the better it holds in when sealed up to a point when they are too small to take the dye .

Higher current makes for larger pores which are harder to seal the dyes in .


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Thank for the advice guys. I have one on the go at the moment so I'll see how it goes. so to surmise, the 720 rule takes longer. What calculation are you using Jay?

Had to laugh at the hardware store because the store no longer stocks lead sheet (nanny state). The old guy behind the counter though I was doing something illegal because he had never heard of anodizing before. I reckon he was about to call the cops on me.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I'm using 150ma per square inch..I roughly calculated mine last night as needing 10amps, but the power supply only just got above 4..
Even though I measured the ano tank with a multimeter which read 14.79amps. After 60 mins the part was very active with little bubbles.

One tip is to shake the little bubbles of the part while there anodising..

I think you get a better result if you go over the part with this process
1. Wire wool
2. Polish
3. Clean the part in washing liquid thoroughly
4. Etch and rinse in de-ionised water
5. Desmut in nitric acid 1-5 mins, (deoxodise 1-10 mins) rinse in de-ionised water
6. Anodise, rinse in de-ionised water. I've always left the parts in for 60mins, I've heard of up to 90 mins as apparently the part will only anodise to a certain point. 
7. Into the dye, its important to have the dye at the correct temperature. 
8. Seal in boiling water, I use the anoseal which has to be at least 96 degrees.20-30 mins, Rinse in de-ionised water (anoseal - nickel acetate )
9. Give it a buff.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Another attempt and not too shabby a job nicely pleased.

Its a going to the pub light a christmas present for the brother in law 
single red xpe no optic in the rear and single xml with EVA D optic up front 
B2flex driven xml and 350 ma driver for the red rear .



















1.5 amps in the acid bath for 2 hours 35 square inches rough work out of surface area .

damn aluminium wire broke after 15 minutes so had to fish it out and re mount it
but no damage done


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

LIttle current? Why 2 hours?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> LIttle current? Why 2 hours?


Cos that what the calculator said it needed 
what would your calculations have said for 35 sq inches ?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Cos that what the calculator said it needed
> what would your calculations have said for 35 sq inches ?


My guide says 150ma per square inch.. 5.2 amps...


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Here's something interesting.. that clamp I anodised the other night that was meant to come out black, has been in the etch for 1.5 hours and still not stripped.
Must have got a super hard coating 

Chris do you notice a pink tinge on your parts in the ano bath?
Or even yellow towards the end?

Your red looks very good to..:thumbsup:


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> After 60 mins the part was very active with little bubbles.
> One tip is to shake the little bubbles of the part while there anodising..


The ano shop I checked pricing with some time ago let me see their process. One thing I recall was that they had an agitation system in the acid tank and most of the other tanks. The acid tank had grid of plastic pipe with a bunch of small holes drilled in it submerged in the bottom of tank. This was connected to compressed air with a valve or regulator to control the amount of bubbling that keeps the acid circulating.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Thanks for the Info Jay and Chris. My wife was cracking herself yesterday when I would sit back down and give her my theory of what was going wrong. I do think though that she really tried to look like she cared. Her parting suggestion was to paint it black like the other lights. 

Vancbiker, I to have seen the tank agitation. I think from memory it ensures you do not get any localised heating of the part as the acid warms but also helps to disperse the bubbles. It is especially important in hard anodizing where the tank water is nearly frozen.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> The ano shop I checked pricing with some time ago let me see their process. One thing I recall was that they had an agitation system in the acid tank and most of the other tanks. The acid tank had grid of plastic pipe with a bunch of small holes drilled in it submerged in the bottom of tank. This was connected to compressed air with a valve or regulator to control the amount of bubbling that keeps the acid circulating.


I read somewhere about using a pump that you put in a fish tank to get the same effect for the home user..
I just bang the tank and shake the hanging bar with the parts in the acid..

Todays ano..
Dark blue meets black..









After anodising the one of the right today, the driver cover is a really tight fit now..!
I've pushed it in and out and it doesn't ruin the ano surface..I wouldn't have thought that the ano would make much difference to the dimensions as its quite thin?

I left the parts in the ano tank for about 75mins, i noticed a yellow tinge around the parts. I've read that it indicates that the ano is done, dont know how much truth is in that.
I also noticed that when the yellow tinge was present, the amps on the power supply were creeping up at a steady rate.
I also measured the temp of the acid bath which was over 28°C..


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Does anybody know if my Thunder AC6 battery charger could be used as a power source. I know that it is automatic in most programs but wondered if one of the programs would work as a manual charger might. I really don't want to spend the money on a charger or variable power source. 
TIA
Andy


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> I left the parts in the ano tank for about 75mins, i noticed a yellow tinge around the parts. I've read that it indicates that the ano is done, dont know how much truth is in that.
> I also noticed that when the yellow tinge was present, the amps on the power supply were creeping up at a steady rate.
> I also measured the temp of the acid bath which was over 28°C..


I to have rad that a slight yellow tinge means it's done.

As for the temp for type II anodizing it is recommended to keep the temp at 15- 23ºC max so I guess you could sit your ano tank in a bucket of ice water. Increase heat gives uneven results.

Regarding film thickness the maximum you can get with type II is 0.025mm (25um) so quite a lot when mating 2 parts together (0.05mm added to the diameter)

Regardless you results look fantastic Jay and Chris.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

brad72 said:


> Regarding film thickness the maximum you can get with type II is 0.025mm (25um) so quite a lot when mating 2 parts together (0.05mm added to diameter)


I asked the ano shop about dimension change. Their method involved keeping close control of the etch tank and ano tank chemistry. They then can accurately predict how much material is removed at etch and match that to the ano build up. They claimed they could maintain dimension easily within 5um.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Any luck yet brad?
I've got a verdict on the yellow tinge meaning that the anodise is finished... I agree 
I anodised a part yesterday for 60mins and it didnt take the dye properly, so etched it gave it another treatment with the wirewool and polish.
Went through the ano process and left it in the ano bath untill the yellow tint was obvious, and this time it took the dye nicely.
The following i copied from an ano guide i found on tinternet:
The anodized part should have a pale lemon tint if it is a 6000 series alloy, or a chalky whitish look for other types of aluminum alloy. Don't pull it out of the tank until it changes color.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Any luck yet brad?
> I've got a verdict on the yellow tinge meaning that the anodise is finished... I agree
> I anodised a part yesterday for 60mins and it didnt take the dye properly, so etched it gave it another treatment with the wirewool and polish.
> Went through the ano process and left it in the ano bath untill the yellow tint was obvious, and this time it took the dye nicely.
> ...


Just waiting on some chemicals and dye to arrive this week then i'll give it another go. I'll post some results when done.


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## Cormac (Aug 6, 2011)

what's a median price for getting the proper equipment to anodize? Interesting thread, i'd like to try and anodize some of my own stuff, would certainly make color matching the blues a non issue. Just wondering if it's cost effective or not?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Well my degreaser, de-smut and 6 different dye colours arrived today so I ready for another go. I'll add my heaters to the tanks tomorrow and see what happens. 

For the heaters I have some heat trace and left over temperature controllers from work projects so I will use them for the degreaser, de-smut and dye tanks. With summer coming I will pack some ice around the ano tank to keep it between 15 & 23ºc. 

Hopefully all will go well.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Well my degreaser, de-smut and 6 different dye colours arrived today so I ready for another go. I'll add my heaters to the tanks tomorrow and see what happens.
> 
> For the heaters I have some heat trace and left over temperature controllers from work projects so I will use them for the degreaser, de-smut and dye tanks. With summer coming I will pack some ice around the ano tank to keep it between 15 & 23ºc.
> 
> Hopefully all will go well.


I just use the desmut at room temp...
I stood the ano bath in a metal tray of water and ice, it really needs to be deeper as when the ano is nearly complete the amps rise and so does the bath temp.
My ice attempt still let the bath reach 25°C in the last 20mins or less..based on 1.5 hours ano time..but at least that shaved 3°C off last time..

I've run out of lights to ano and i have the biggest blister on my thumb from polishing lights this weekend in prep for anodising.

So this week and the weekend ill be maching something up to ano Gold 

Anyway good luck, looking forward to your results Brad..


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## marv2097 (May 19, 2011)

this thread is very addictive! by far the most interesting at the moment. 

Some of the results you guys are getting is impressive. Ive still a lot of reading to do but just curios what if any Kits you are using? After what you have learned is there any kit you would recommend?

Im looking at the Gateros Kit, do you think it would be a good starting point?

Cheers
Marv


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

marv2097 said:


> this thread is very addictive! by far the most interesting at the moment.
> 
> Some of the results you guys are getting is impressive. Ive still a lot of reading to do but just curios what if any Kits you are using? After what you have learned is there any kit you would recommend?
> 
> ...


I have the Gateros kit, the ultimate one for £93...works fine for me so far..Plus i like the fact that i can just order any of the parts from the kit when i run out..
You get all the guides with it and data sheets for each of the chemicals and dyes..

I do need to find a cheaper source of de-inonised water though.. I've spent £20 on it in two weeks..


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Hi guys. Really interesting thread and infos. As someone else asked, do you know about an average price to get started to ano at least with one dye color ?

Thanks,

David


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Just got this bit of info back from gateros VIA an email conversation..

_When using an adjustable power supply it is better to ramp the voltage. This means that when the item first goes in you start off at a lower voltage but always aim for 150 milliamps per square inch of surface area. Keep increasing the voltage every 5 minutes to keep at the required amperage. You will find that after approx 30 minutes you cant increase the voltage enough to maintain the amperage and it will slowly drop to 0 . That is when the item is fully anodised_


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Jay if you were to use a constant current power supply and set the current to the desired amount based on the part size then the PSU will automatically increase the volts to keep the amps at the preset value as the part losses its conductivity through the anodizing process. For the LCD method I was told that the volts will keep increasing then the amps will start to drop off when the part is ready.

The only real downside the lcd method is it takes around 1-3 hours (average 2) to anodize the part based on 4.5 - 6 amps per square foot of current density which is why the constant current power supply is great because I could see myself forgetting to go back every 15 minutes to adjust the voltage.. The gateros system seems faster but I am unsure if they are using higher concentrations of acid in the ano tank. The Gateros system is also much cheaper but that might just be because we are in Australia. I would still love to use sulphuric but I would rather have a fume hood and air scrubber in place first so I don't ruin the shed and surrounds.

It is certainly an interesting subject. I am still looking at de-ionizing rain water by running i through a deionizing cartridge filter instead of using de-mineralized water.

The Casswell plating forum has some great info if you ever get stuck. Check out Anodizing Questions


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes so many differing methods and timings / power input no wonder folks get confused .
I am using the LCD method but with a stronger acid bath , only because I cocked up on the measurements and its tough to take the acid out plus the tank wont accept any more water .
But am getting consistent results so happy .

Might try a scrap piece using the higher current and less time for a comparison .
but as Brad says it is easy to set the CC supply and go and do some thing else for a couple of hours.

I seem to get a satin finish and it doesnt matter how much polishing I do before the end result is the same . but very happy with the finish the Black one was done professionally
the other 2 by me .

the red was polished to a good shine and the silver just some 0000 grade wire wool


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

I've managed to get some time and got my setup out and hooked it up. Bit of a silly mistake, I connected my anode to the Neg and cathode to the Pos of my power supply. This ran for an hour before I realised! I swapped them over and the light still turned out ok! It didn't take the black ink as well as it usually does, but I like the gun metal finish.

Troutie, I do prefer the satin finish. I scrub my light with a brillo pad. Can't be bothered polishing it!


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Here is my crude setup, notice the black lead onto my parts rail! Oops!!!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I have a feeling all our back sheds look like Meth labs to the untrained eye. 

I had been using rain water but I spoke to the guy as Casswell today and he said besides bore water rain water is one of the worst to use because of its high mineral content and organic contaminants so off to the supermarket I went and bought 25l of demineralisation water. That should give a much better result.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Some good results there troutie and piesoup..

Piesoup Did you use orange die for the end cover?
Brad, my meth lab is in the basement


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

troutie-mtb said:


> I seem to get a satin finish and it doesnt matter how much polishing I do before the end result is the same . but very happy with the finish


You need a bright dip as part of your process to easily "polish" your ano parts. Google "bright dip anodizing"

You might be etching a bit too much also.


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## marv2097 (May 19, 2011)

piesoup said:


> It didn't take the black ink as well as it usually does, but I like the gun metal finish.


I think that gun metal grey looks really good against the orange!

Troutie, Your parts are looking great. Just out of curiosity what does it cost you to get the housing done at an anodisers? Are the costs for one offs expensive?

Cheers
Marv


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Some good results there troutie and piesoup..
> 
> Piesoup Did you use orange die for the end cover?
> Brad, my meth lab is in the basement


Yip, it's orange dye. I had gold, but it was too wishy washy. Can't remember where I got it from, had it ages. 
My meth lab is in the cellar, next to the home brew!

Marv, I like the gun metal purple flip too. Going to try and replicate it!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Vancbiker said:


> You need a bright dip as part of your process to easily "polish" your ano parts. Google "bright dip anodizing"
> 
> You might be etching a bit too much also.


When you say bright dip do you mean desmut?
GP Deox and Desmut for Anodising Anodise Ally Cleaning | eBay

Here's the gumpf of my datasheet for my desmut which is a brightner.

PRODUCT DATA SHEET
HYPERBRITE DE-OX AL​Hyperbrite DE-OX AL is a liquid, non chromate, fast acting De-oxidiser/De-smut used as a post Etch and Brightener process for Aluminium. Hyperbrite DE-OX AL is miscible in water and provides a convenient de-smut, de-oxidiser solution.
OPERATION
Hyperbrite DE-OX AL should be added to cold water. De-Smut

Concentration
Temperature
Time
De-Oxidising Concentration Temperature Time
EQUIPMENT

20 - 25% v/v
Ambient
1 - 5 Minutes
20 - 30% v/v Ambient 2-20 Minutes

Stainless Steel tanks are generally used, although linings of Polypropylene, PVC or ABS are often used.
EFFLUENT TREATMENT
Waste Chemical Solutions should be segregated, correctly labelled and disposed of in accordance with local authority regulations. Contact your local authority for guidance.

Member of the Surface Engineering Association - Member of British Surface Treatment Suppliers Association VAT No. 655 0553 40. Company Reg. No. 2994804 Directors - BL Ciarke : Li Clarke : KB Clarke : DJ Clarke

asr&I

2
If an effluent plant is being used, the solution should be transferred to another tank or treated with Sodium Hydroxide to a pH of 9 - 10.
After this treatment the solution should be transferred to a settlement tank and allowed to settle as a sludge.
HEALTH AND SAFETY
Hyperbrite DE-OX al is a hazardous chemical preparation and should be treated accordingly. Care should be taken to avoid contact with the skin and eyes by wearing appropriate safety wear. If contact is made with skin or eyes, irrigate with copious amounts of water and seek medical attention immediately.
Always read the label and Material Safety Data Sheet (M.S.D.S.) available from Access Chemicals Ltd.
Any information given here relating to health and safety should be regarded as general advice and is not to be regarded as comprehensive or definitive.
All statements, information and data contained herein are published as a guide and although believed to be accurate and reliable (having regard to the manufacturers practical experience) neither the manufacturer, licensor, seller nor publisher represents or warrants, expressly implied (1) their accuracy / reliability (2) that the use of the product(s) will not infringe third party rights. All sales by the manufacturer / seller are based on their respective conditions of sale, available on request.
PACKAGING
Hyperbrite DE-OX AL is supplied in 25Ltr, 200Ltr and lOOOLtr Polypropylene containers.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Goldigger said:


> When you say bright dip do you mean desmut?


They are different steps, though the nitric acid in you desmut may be helping to "brighten" your work somewhat.

Bright dip is a boiling witch's vat of primarily phosphoric and nitric acid. It chemically "polishes" the alloy. It is a really nasty side of decorative anodizing. Probably not an operation for the home/hobby anodizer.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hey guys. Check out this guys blog. The Full Monty: Part 1 « GordsGarage Blog His set-up is fantastic yet very simple


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## Road_Runner (Mar 31, 2009)

Got my housing back from Goldigger all nicely dyed black now and I couldn't be happier with it.

Jay you're a master craftsman and thank you very much indeed! :thumbsup:


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

brad72 said:


> Hey guys. Check out this guys blog. The Full Monty: Part 1 « GordsGarage Blog His set-up is fantastic yet very simple


Thanks for the link!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Nice find there Brad .

Not sure your caswell guy is correct googled mineral content of rainwater and most results say a bit of acid and pollution but no minerals unless its been on or through the ground .

I am having no issues using it and its free .


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi chaps 
had another go this time biufgt new acid and used lead for the cathrode i didnt clean the parts before etching them in caustic solution 50mins in the acid bath havnt a clue how many amps as its a 3 amp supply i dont think i got my dye up the temp correctly then a dunck in boiling water








next go clean parts better and make my dye solution stronger

thwang


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Finally got my ano setup working and got a pretty good result.

Used the 720 rule and based on the calculation's the part needed to be in the acid bath for 128 minutes @ 0.45A with a peak voltage of 7.5v. Well at 120 minutes the voltage was still sitting around 9v but at 128 minutes it dropped to 7.5v so the calculator was spot on.

I cleaned the part with dish soap, into the degreaser for 5 minutes at 60ºC, then the de-smut for 3 minutes at 43ºC then to the acid tank. I used a fish tank air pump to agitate the water this time to save giggling the part manually. Once done she went into the dye tank at 60ºC for 25 minutes then sealed in boiling water for 30 minutes. I have some proper sealer solution coming in a couple of weeks that should b a little better. I sprayed the part with distilled water in a squirty bottle between steps.

So all in all quite pleased. Now to get some more lights done. Here is a shot of the results


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## HuffyPuffy (Jun 9, 2008)

Looks great! What type or red dye did you use?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Very tasty :thumbsup:

Very satisfying when it comes out good .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Regarding the water thing, a small De-humidifier would provide gallons of pure condensate for a small outlay,
some beautiful results here!! :thumbsup:


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Finally got my ano setup working and got a pretty good result.
> 
> Used the 720 rule and based on the calculation's the part needed to be in the acid bath for 128 minutes @ 0.45A with a peak voltage of 7.5v. Well at 120 minutes the voltage was still sitting around 9v but at 128 minutes it dropped to 7.5v so the calculator was spot on.
> 
> ...


Nice job Brad..
80 degrees in the dye sounds a bit on the hot side though..none of my dyes go above 60degrees C according to the data sheet.
At 80 I'd worry about the part starting to seal..

Anyway the red looks bloody good.

I've got a housing to do tonight...but its the usual black! So nothing to show here.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hey guys. Certainly was satisfying to get a part to anodize properly. 

Jay, good eyes there mate as I made a typo, the dye was added to the water @ 80ºC but the tank was 60ºC when I added the part. They do say in the caswell manual that the dye can also be added at room Temp

Huffy, the dye used was the Caswell Deep Red


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I anodized the light below yesterday but the colour was uneven between the light body and the round driver housing. I spoke to my metal merchant this morning and he said the 2 grades of bar he stocks are 6061 and 2011. I suspect that the driver housing was the 2011 as it has a higher copper content and therefore will produce a paler more yellow colour, hence the orange tinge. The front cover was machined form 5083 plate and it's colour was the same as the 6061.

Always learning by trial and error.

I might re machine the driver housing out of 6061 because although the colour difference is only slight and the light is only a test on it is going to bug the crap out of me.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I didn't have much luck today using an car battery charger w/ a 6V 2A manual setting. I initially saw bubbles coming off the cathode but the bubbles stopped between 10 and 20 minutes. It appeared the charger was still operating but my test part was not getting anodized. So...I am looking for a cheap power supply. It appears there are a few on the other side of the pond. In the US the cheapest I can find is a Mastech HY1803D Variable DC Power Supply, 0-18V @ 0-3A for around $70.00. I would love to find something cheaper and I would like to know if 18V/3A is high enough for our purposes?
TIA 
Andy


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hi Andy, it sounds like your part lost it's connection part way through the process. Because the process of anodizing causes a non conductive layer or oxide to be formed on the part and the wire it is connected to if it is also aluminium and not titanium you need to make sure that wire is jammed in tight and cannot come loose 

As for you power supply if you are using the LCD method and the 720 rule then your amps are going to be quite low anyway. I anodized a 71²in part th other day and only ran 2.2 amps for 128 minutes. Because you are using constant current you volts will take care of themselves and will fluctuate up and down to keep the current constant. 

I bought a 5 amp, 30 volts power supply off fleabay and it is excellent. The thing I have discovered about anodizing is it isn't worth skimping on one of the steps because they all have to be right to get good results. 

Have fun.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Hmmm.... I drilled a hole in my test piece and used an aluminum screw and bolt to attach the aluminum wire to it. I attached the other end of the wire to my aluminum bar that was energized the same way. So I don't "think" it was my electrical connection. Does the reaction slow through the process or does the reaction stay fairly constant. I guess I'm asking if the gas production from the reaction stays relatively constant or does the gas production slowly taper off through the anodization process? Maybe I just took it out too soon. It didn't look like it was doing anything so I took it out at about 70 minutes. The piece didn't take any dye at all. Thanks for the reply.
Andy


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

My understanding is that at a certain point the oxide layer will grow to the point that the part will not conduct electricity and the current will no be able to pass through it, so at this point the amps and volts will drop. But since you are using a battery charger that may or may not be your problem depending on how the charger operates. I know the Caswell book says they do not recommend battery chargers because of the difficulties controlling them. 

What you could do is get your mulitmeter and put it on the 1000 ohm setting and see if the surface conducts electricity or not. If it doesn't then you know you have grown an oxide film and have actually anodized your part. If it does conduct then it was a failure.

Another thing is to make sure is that the cathodes have more surface area than the part being anodized. Now if using lead cathodes solder the wires to them to ensure propper connection. 

When i anodize bubbles coming off both the anode and cathodes pretty much till the end. 

Good luck


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> I didn't have much luck today using an car battery charger w/ a 6V 2A manual setting. I initially saw bubbles coming off the cathode but the bubbles stopped between 10 and 20 minutes. It appeared the charger was still operating but my test part was not getting anodized. So...I am looking for a cheap power supply. It appears there are a few on the other side of the pond. In the US the cheapest I can find is a Mastech HY1803D Variable DC Power Supply, 0-18V @ 0-3A for around $70.00. I would love to find something cheaper and I would like to know if 18V/3A is high enough for our purposes?
> TIA
> Andy


Try using an old PC PSU, I used a 580w PSU and got great results on my first few pieces..
Use the 12v rail, yellow and black lead on the molex connector.. when the piece your anodising gets a yellow tinge to it, its anodised..but let it ano for a while so the yellow is obvious..

The power supply i use now is a varible 15v/15amp and does the job no probs..
Fusion O-FS-PS200ADJ - Fusion 200W Adjustable Power Supply

Have a look on the RC websites in the US...should be able to get something simular


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi chaps
i,ve bought one of those Fusion 200W Adjustable Power Supply
when i conect it up to my acid tank i cant get a amp reading only volts am i doing something wrong?
cheers si


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi Thwang, can you post a pic of your set up??
Might just be a dodgy connection somewhere..


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi goldigger
this is the reading sorry about the poor photos had to use my phone
















i,ve tried 2 extra leads also with croc clips i am getting volts to the anode i also used another power supply and that did nothing so it must be a connection i dropped the battery + cable into the acid and it fizzed like hell im using alloy welding rods if i get up early tomorrow im going to nip into work and get some alloy mig welding wire.
thwang


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

What is you acid strength? I can't see from you pic, but do you have the part to be ano'd in the acid? If not, that's why no current is flowing. 
Also, check the resistance of your setup. Take it out of the acid, measure the ohms between your cathode and your neg input. Then measure anode to pos input. Should only be a couple of ohms. If it's higher, try some wet and dry on the lead and dip you anode in some caustic soda. That always seems to do the trick with mine!


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Try attaching the Brown + lead to the ali wire coming off the part your anodising
I connect both lead anodes togther with some copper wire, then clip the blue - lead from the power supply to it..
You wont see any current draw until your part is in the acid bath all connected up..maybe your power supply is faulty if your not getting a readout?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

twang make sure you have both knobs for the volts on your power supply set to maximum then adjust your amps to the desired level and like the other have said check your connections.

As for concentration I use 1kg of sodium bisulphate per 4 litres of water


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Little trick I found today. Because I am anodizing a larger part today the heat in the tank started to get over 23ºc so I tried putting an ice brick inside a freezer bag directly into the acid solution and it has brought the temp down beautifully and is holding it stable. 

This saves having an ice water bath and when your finished just wash throw away the bag, give the brick a quick clean with a bicarb solution and put it back into the freezer ready for next time.


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi 
acid is between 15 and 20% i think its the power supply if i turn both the volts and the amps to max im getting 15v but only 0.4 amps. goldigger did you use 1x12v+cable from you pc psu.
thwang
now my xbox360 has died as well


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

thwang-01 said:


> hi
> acid is between 15 and 20% i think its the power supply if i turn both the volts and the amps to max im getting 15v but only 0.4 amps. goldigger did you use 1x12v+cable from you pc psu.
> thwang
> now my xbox360 has died as well


Hi thwang,
I had to send my first PSU back, but I think the damage was done by the courier.
On the PSU I used the 12v rail off the molex connector, yellow and black wire.
bottom left in the image..
Mine is a 580watt so plenty of power..


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi chaps
im confused now i phoned the shop up this morning to arrange an replacment thought i would just try it before i pack it up hooked a rechargable battery to it and the amps work? whats going wrong.
cheers thwang


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hi Thwang. 

Setup looks fine, 2 lead cathodes connected to the negative on the psu and the part to be anodized connected to the positive and secured with some alloy wire. The alloy hanger wire cannot be re-used once anodized because the process of anodization forms a non conductive layer on the surface so it won't conduct electricity. 

To check you connections check the continuity between the positive lead and your part and the negative to the cathodes.

You want to use you power supply in constant Current mode so the volts adjuster should be all the way clockwise and the amps all the way anitclockwise. Lower your connected part into the acid solution and slowly turn the amps adjuster up till the desired output is reached. 

If using sodium bisulphate you want 1kg of dry acid to 4 litres of water. If using battery acid you need a 3:1 water to acid mix.

The part to be anodized should be cleaned/plished, degreased, de-oxidised then to the ano tank. 

If you want to PM me your email I can send you a manual on the method that Trout and I use.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

For those of you who are interested I have found a great video of a guy giving a full anodizing tutorial. He also has other video's showing vinyl masking and multi colour anodizing. It's long but well worth a look.

How To - Another in depth look at anodizing knife handles - YouTube


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Got a few more 20mm triple housings polished up ready for anodizing.

I ended up buying some stitched and loose cotton buffs to use with medium and fine compounds and mounted the buffs in the lathe to save using the bench grinder as seen in the picture below. Best of all no tired arms. I need to get a coarse compound and stiffer buff to get machining marks out. I will buy some bigger diameter buffs to get my hands away from the chuck but only one hardware store was open today.

I also made up a bus bar for the ano tank and have some heaters coming from china for the degreaser and desmut tanks to save using a kettle to heat up the solutions










This is the loose cotton buff mounted in the lathe chuck









Results after polishing for about 10 minutes


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

There bloody shiny...did you do them on the buffing wheel?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> There bloody shiny...did you do them on the buffing wheel?


This was the kit from the hardware store United Tools, Power Tools and Accessories

Started with the medium cutting compound on the stiff mop then the fine on the loose cotton buff. Because it has a drill arbour you could easily mount it in you mill chuck. No more tired arms:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

brad72 said:


> For those of you who are interested I have found a great video of a guy giving a full anodizing tutorial. He also has other video's showing vinyl masking and multi colour anodizing. It's long but well worth a look.
> 
> How To - Another in depth look at anodizing knife handles - YouTube


Good find Brad 
Interesting to see just the caustic bath rinses and into the ano bath no desmut

MM very shiny be interested to see after anodise 
Me I am getting lazy and prefering the matt finish anodise


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hi Chris, i was told a few weeks back that if the alloy is freshly machined that the de-smut step can be left out but i haven't tried it yet but the video certainly shows that the results are excellent


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Same shot as above but anodized. The high gloss finish still remains :thumbsup:.

I thought I would try fade anodizing on the Left hand light and after a failed attempt meaning I had to bleach out the dye's and re-do the colour I had success. I put half the housing in the red for about 5 minutes, then the other half in the black for 10 minutes, then put the whole light into the red for a further 15 minutes to make the colour more solid and less pink. Note that the red isn't as intense as it appears in the picture.

One quick observation is that the matt finishes will yield a darker colour. I did some matt finish parts with the batch below and the black is much deeper for the same time in the dye. The polished finish has a very slight blue tinge depending on the light so next time it will need longer in the dye or heat the black to about 50ºC (used at 30ºC this time)


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## borrower (Feb 26, 2011)

Mmmm, shiny octagons. I'm tempted to say, "That's Nuts!", but I'm far too restrained. 

Seriously though, those look good.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Very nice work Brad but personal taste would suggest the multi coloured one would look better with front half / back half as opposed to side to side. That said, you certainly are getting some good results.

Is the only difference between the gloss and the matt finish the level of polishing done at the start? Sorry if I have missed an explanation previously in the thread.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

emu26 said:


> Very nice work Brad but personal taste would suggest the multi coloured one would look better with front half / back half as opposed to side to side. That said, you certainly are getting some good results.
> 
> Is the only difference between the gloss and the matt finish the level of polishing done at the start? Sorry if I have missed an explanation previously in the thread.


I agree with the faded front to back but I forgot to put in some solid bar but really wanted to see how the 2 colours fade into each other which I wouldn't have seen if done front to back because of the heatsink fins. Again I have no patience. The red also is no where near as saturated as it is in the picture. The housing is for my 9 year daughter so it can be red on top or black on top when mounted. I should have made it pink for her. Now the 5 year old wants one for her bike.

To lower the gloss level I could add a caustic step to remove the shine but it would need to be timed to get consistent results.

Certainly is fun seeing what can be done.


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi chap
hope your all had a good christmas break tried my power supply yesturday before i send it back to the shop set the tank up with a bit of scrap ally low and behold it works didnt run it long but it works.
regards si


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

These pics are on my other thread, but wanted to keep this thread alive by added another color..


































I still need to have a bash a the gold dye yet..Troutie have you tried your gold yet?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

GD that looks fantastic, well done


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

emu26 said:


> GD that looks fantastic, well done


Thanks Emu:thumbsup:


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## marv2097 (May 19, 2011)

GD that blue is very very nice! How long was it in the dye for?


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

marv2097 said:


> GD that blue is very very nice! How long was it in the dye for?


Thanks..
about 5 mins tops...

The only thing that i dont like about short dye times is that you dont get full saturation of the dye according to the datasheets.
This means that the dye doesn't penetrate the pores of the anodising as far as the dye can get in..

So it's probably best to mix the dye to the colour you want and leave it in for a longer time.
My blue was still mixed a bit darker than i wanted, that's why i pulled it after 5 mins..


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I am having some troubles which are probably due to bad connections but want some help trouble shooting it. I bought a power supply rated at 18V/5A. When it is connected to my ano setup I am unable to get any current. I checked all the connections and they seem fine. When I turn my power supply on and adjust the volts to 12 my voltmeter shows correct voltage throughout the system. My ampmeter is rated for low mA but I checked to see if I am getting any mA at the risk of ruining my cheap ampmeter. It read nothing between the anode and cathode. I bumped the cathode (which is just leaning in my tank) and it contacted the aluminum wire off my anode rail and my power supply all of the sudden read 5+amps! I immediately broke that connection, but it was for a second or so.
Now....did I ruin my power supply. And does all this mean it's my ano bath concentration that is too low? I am pretty sure that the connection between the aluminum wire and the part being anodized is good. 
TIA and sorry for the long post.
Andy


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

interesting thread


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> I am having some troubles which are probably due to bad connections but want some help trouble shooting it. I bought a power supply rated at 18V/5A. When it is connected to my ano setup I am unable to get any current. I checked all the connections and they seem fine. When I turn my power supply on and adjust the volts to 12 my voltmeter shows correct voltage throughout the system. My ampmeter is rated for low mA but I checked to see if I am getting any mA at the risk of ruining my cheap ampmeter. It read nothing between the anode and cathode. I bumped the cathode (which is just leaning in my tank) and it contacted the aluminum wire off my anode rail and my power supply all of the sudden read 5+amps! I immediately broke that connection, but it was for a second or so.
> Now....did I ruin my power supply. And does all this mean it's my ano bath concentration that is too low? I am pretty sure that the connection between the aluminum wire and the part being anodized is good.
> TIA and sorry for the long post.
> Andy


Hi Andy,
Can you post a pic of your setup?

To test the power supply hook it up to a led with the correct voltage/current limit set..
If the led lights then you know it works..

When you have everything connecting and turned on, do bubbles come from the anodes (part your anodising) cathodes?


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

@Andy13. Most modern power supplies are protected against shorting, so probably your power supply will be fine. What's the concentration of your acid bath?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> I am having some troubles which are probably due to bad connections but want some help trouble shooting it. I bought a power supply rated at 18V/5A. When it is connected to my ano setup I am unable to get any current. I checked all the connections and they seem fine. When I turn my power supply on and adjust the volts to 12 my voltmeter shows correct voltage throughout the system. My ampmeter is rated for low mA but I checked to see if I am getting any mA at the risk of ruining my cheap ampmeter. It read nothing between the anode and cathode. I bumped the cathode (which is just leaning in my tank) and it contacted the aluminum wire off my anode rail and my power supply all of the sudden read 5+amps! I immediately broke that connection, but it was for a second or so.
> Now....did I ruin my power supply. And does all this mean it's my ano bath concentration that is too low? I am pretty sure that the connection between the aluminum wire and the part being anodized is good.
> TIA and sorry for the long post.
> Andy


Another thing to make sure is that you are running your power supply in constant current mode. That means you turn the both voltage knobs all the way to full the use your amp knobs to select the desired current. The volts will go up and down by themselves to keep the amps at what you selected.

Good luck with it


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

thanks for the suggestions and help guys. I'll check the power supply tomorrow using an led. I'm currently drinking heavily My acid bath is a strong sodium bisulfate concentration. I used this bath a few weeks ago but had trouble w/ the power source I was using. At that time I definitely had bubbles coming off the test piece, until the battery charger shut off. 
This is probably a stupid question, but do freezing temps affect a sodium bisulfate solution? I didn't want to store the "acid" bath and the soduim hydroxide solution inside the house so I put them in my unheated garage. Could either of my solutions have been affected by the temperature which was well below freezing up here at 7,000+ feet in the Rockies?
thanks again for all the help everyone. This group is sooooooo helpful. 
Andy


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

As long as you heat the solution up to about 15ºC before using it things will be fine. As for the bisulphate I use 1kg in 4 litres of water.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes temperature is important as I found out on sunday 
we had it drop below freezing and my stuff is in a shed so was very cold 
and my power supply maxed out on the volts and still count not get the amps up 

everything perfect after I had heated the tank up using a fishtank heater.

is your cathode aluminium as again I had a problem with aluminium cathodes I used some plate I had and first time it was great but the next time I tried I could not get any amps to flow 

the ali had developed a coat that stopped the current flowing so replaced the cathode with lead and no further problems 

you could test by cleaning up your cathode with a wire brush and see if it flows then .


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I try and keep my bath around 20-22degrees C..
I've been dropping them blue Ice packs that you put in cool boxes, into the bath when it starts to get warm..

Resistance will change as the temp of the bath changes..the colder it gets the higher the resistance.
If your bath is 0-10 degrees C then you could try hard anodising, but voltage and current needs to be raised 2-3 times higher..plus I'm not sure it works on anything other than sulphuric acid baths..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Found another uk seller for dyes..a few colours that we haven't played with are available.
Black, blue, red, gold, violet, yellow, bronze, flourescent pink, orange and green..

They also have these hotplates for £22 Hotplate 
Which might come in handy if your confined to the garage or shed..

Anodising Dyes


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

For those people have bought dyes from gateros playing in the uk (note they also sell VIA ebay)
I found this pdf with all the colours that the original manufacture (Clariant) of the dyes produces..

Just need to find a supplier..that doesn't sell by the kg..
Aluminium Finishing Dyes - Imperial Colours Ltd

http://www.pigments.clariant.com/C12576850036A6E9/picklist/4284058DC3204100C125767F0047B726/$file/DA9001E_Colormatching_Nov09.pdf


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Has anyone calculated how much it costs for the materials to ano one housing? 

Is the minimum amount needed to ano one housing enough to do more than one? 

How much dye is required to ano a housing? 

I looked at the Imperial Colours site and I can't believe how much 1kg of dye costs. Wow!

The lights shown here are just fantastically beautiful. Really amazing. 

When most people think of DIY, they usually think of something that looks cobbled together. That's fine. I love seeing all the DIY LED projects. I'm just blown away by some of the top end housings and lights here. Many of them are far, far better than the best commercial lights. These lights are truly a work of art.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

ThinkBike said:


> Has anyone calculated how much it costs for the materials to ano one housing?
> 
> Is the minimum amount needed to ano one housing enough to do more than one?
> 
> ...


The dyes are re-usable,.. obviously after so much use they might start to fade or give wishy washy results..or get contaminated.

It's the time envolved thats the factor In my opinion.. 
factor in polishing the housing then the ano process and your looking at a good 4 hours, maybe more depending on the size of the housing.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I bought a couple of these heaters for my degreaser, desmut and dye heating eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d

As for anodizing the prep polishing takes the longest. The process itself is quite easy. 10 minutes to degrease and desmut, 120-160 minutes to anodize, 1-15 minutes to dye and 20 minutes to seal the part. Then dry the part and squirt with some WD40 and sit to one side for 24 hours for the final curing.

Cost wise the lead sheet cost $30, anodizing dyes $130 for 7 colours, $14 for the sodium bisulphate, $3 per 5 litres of de-mineralized water, $50 for ano sealant, $39 for de-greaser and $39 for the de-smut and $100 for a constant current power supply.

The above will anodize a lot of parts so will last a long time. The only real consumables are the alloy wire for hanging the parts and the de-mineralised water. If you use titanium wire then that is reusable.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

What thickness lead sheet are you all using? I can get some 1/8" sheeting from a local supplier and wondered if that would work OK.
TIA
andy


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> What thickness lead sheet are you all using? I can get some 1/8" sheeting from a local supplier and wondered if that would work OK.
> TIA
> andy


At a guees mine is 1/8th...just make sure its high purity lead sheet..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I got some more ali wire, but its so brittal its hard to get it into a hole and get a decent connection as it snaps when bent.
Took 3 attempts to get one of 3 parts to finally anodise at the weekend because of the wire..
Has anybody had any luck with ali welding wire?
Draper 77173 0.8mm Aluminium Mig Wire - 500G Part No: WSIF511 - Draper available at Toolbox

wires.co.uk : Bare Aluminium Wire


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

jay I got some Titanium welding rods 
titanium tig welding rods 2.0mm x 450mm x 3 | eBay

made up a jig and have reused it four times now well pleased with it


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> jay I got some Titanium welding rods
> titanium tig welding rods 2.0mm x 450mm x 3 | eBay
> 
> made up a jig and have reused it four times now well pleased with it


Cheers Chris,
Do you know if they come in smaller diameter? I generally stuff the ali wire into 2mm holes.
At a guess i think the ali wire must be 0.8mm thick, i thread it through the hole and loop it back round, pull it tight and repeat until i have 4 passes of the wire through the hole..if that makes any sense

The first batch of wire i got was really strong and didnt snap, but this new stuff just kinks when you loop it round..then snaps with little force:madman:


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Cheers Chris,
> Do you know if they come in smaller diameter? I generally stuff the ali wire into 2mm holes.
> At a guess i think the ali wire must be 0.8mm thick, i thread it through the hole and loop it back round, pull it tight and repeat until i have 4 passes of the wire through the hole..if that makes any sense
> 
> The first batch of wire i got was really strong and didnt snap, but this new stuff just kinks when you loop it round..then snaps with little force:madman:


Just for reference I use 2.4mm alloy wire and either bend it into a 20mm diameter circle to fit inside the light pocket (the wire acts as a spring forcing itself outwards) or kink the wire several times and force it into one of the drilled holes.

I still have to get some titanium wire as caswell had run out. At least the titanium wire is reusable as long as it doesn't break.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Brad do you know what grade the ali wire is?
Ali mig welding wire comes in either 4043 and 5356, I've read that 4043 goes smutty black when anodised. This new wire went grey/black at the weekend, so im guessing its 4043.

That leads me to believe that the original wire i had was 5356..which is more resistant to kinks and breaking. This wire went matt silver when it had been anodised..

?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Pretty sure all my wire I use for tig welding and anodizing is 5356. It never goes black when anodizing and is pretty strong. I can bend it back on itself with no breakages.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Not sure if this has already been posted, but here's caswells guide to anodising in pdf
http://www.caswellplating.com/kits/lcd_ano.pdf

Might help out anyone who wants to get started..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Pretty sure all my wire I use for tig welding and anodizing is 5356. It never goes black when anodizing and is pretty strong. I can bend it back on itself with no breakages.


Got a reply back from gateros, the wire they got from another supplier was indead 4043 but should have been 5356..
They will send me some 5356 when they get it in, but i'll just buy a 500g roll for less than £10..

You guys that use the 720 rule, are you loosly estimating the surface area?
Or do you calculate every fin and cutout?

I read today that if you use high current to anodise, which is faster you will always get the yellow colour when the piece has anodised, which will slightly effect dye colour.

But if you want a silver (un-dyed), then best to use the 720 rule.

I'm thinking the 720 rule will be best used if I am to use the Gold dye. The Gold dye doesn't dye like your blacks, blues and reds, it apparently is more of a chemical reaction so i've read..

A friend wants me to ano his motorbikes brake levers Gold..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

For the 720 rule I use my cad drawings to get the surface area so it is very easy. I have however read on the Caswell forums that the more accurate your surface area calculations are the better results and consistency you will get. For example with the red I aim for a 0.8-1.0mil ano thickness to ensure the colour takes properly. If my surface area calculations were inaccurate the colour would not be as good.

This surface area calculator is pretty good Caswell Inc - Calculating Surface Areas

With all the parts I have anodized so far they all come out nice and silver from the ano bath. Also for the best results with gold you want a dye pH of 6 and I would have your current density at around 4.5amp/ft² and aim for a 0.5mil thickness.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:crazy: Seems I am at the other end of the spectrum to Brad mines more a calcuguesstimate.

seems to work out for me


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

With the lights that you have anodised using the 720 rule whats the highest voltage/current you have used?
Maplins are doing the 20v 5amp Bench power supplyfor £60 at the moment..
Bench Power Supply with LCD Screen : Bench Power Supplies : Maplin Electronics


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

With the lights that you have anodised using the 720 rule whats the highest voltage/current you have used?
Maplins are doing the 20v 5amp Bench power supply for £60 at the moment..
Bench Power Supply with LCD Screen : Bench Power Supplies : Maplin Electronics


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

The highest amperage I have used is 2.2A so far. If I were to anodize more than 1 light at a time obviously this would be higher. My power supply is a 5A 30v.

Chris i reckon if the cad program didn't automatically calculate the surface area then I would also be using the guestimates. Never liked all that maths and patience


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Jay check out my pics lower down the thread that the supply I have been using .

works fine one of me Dominators needs 2.5 amps so I can just do 2 at a time with it .

though I must confess to getting a 30 volt 10 amp supply last week .

REGULATED DC POWER BENCH TOP SUPPLY WITH VARIABLE OUTPUT 0-30V/0-10A - connevans.co.uk


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Jay check out my pics lower down the thread that the supply I have been using .
> 
> works fine one of me Dominators needs 2.5 amps so I can just do 2 at a time with it .
> 
> ...


How comes you bought a bigger bench top power supply?

The power supply that I bought does the job, but i don't believe readout on it..


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> How comes you bought a bigger bench top power supply?
> 
> The power supply that I bought does the job, but i don't believe readout on it..


Well I managed to kill the cheapie one and the other one I used it inside for other duties and it was always in the wrong place so wanted a separate one with more amps so I could if needed do a larger batch .


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> Well I managed to kill the cheapie one and the other one I used it inside for other duties and it was always in the wrong place so wanted a separate one with more amps so I could if needed do a larger batch .


Good move Chris. 2 complete housings and I will reach the limit of the 5A power supply and since it takes 2 hours to anodize the more we can do at once the more economical, as long as we can keep the acid cool .


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

You can reduce the SA that need to be anodised by using polymer tape and sealant to mask off internal areas that don't need treating. Do this after the first clean and before the caustic dip. 

I've read that the ano layer is infact a type of ceramic which is an insulater to both electricity and heat. Hence you shouldn't place your LED onto an anodised area. I mask off all internal areas which can reduce your SA by a third.


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

Aluminium oxide conducts heat quite well, although not as good as aluminium which is not oxidized.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

Where do you get 'Polymer Tape'? and is it called something else?
thanks,
Andy


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Andy13 said:


> Where do you get 'Polymer Tape'? and is it called something else?
> thanks,
> Andy


Something like this?

Blue Polyester Masking Tape


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Try this 3M Products | 3M Electroplating/Anodizing Tape | Adhesives, Abrasives


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

You can even use good old nail polish to mask area's off and just clean it off when done.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> You can even use good old nail polish to mask area's off and just clean it off when done.


Brad i hope you've not been playing with make-up?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Brad i hope you've not been playing with make-up?


Mate, all the time. I've got stocking and suspenders on now also


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> Mate, all the time. I've got stocking and suspenders on now also


For some reason this springs to mind..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

piesoup said:


> You can reduce the SA that need to be anodised by using polymer tape and sealant to mask off internal areas that don't need treating. Do this after the first clean and before the caustic dip.
> 
> I've read that the ano layer is infact a type of ceramic which is an insulater to both electricity and heat. Hence you shouldn't place your LED onto an anodised area. I mask off all internal areas which can reduce your SA by a third.


This has raises something I have also been thinking about since I started anodizing. Since raw aluminium starts to oxidises as soon as it comes into contact with air wouldn't it act the same as anodized aluminium? This of course could be eliminated if after the desmut step the the ano mask was put on and not taken off till the led was ready to be mounted, thereby stopping and oxidation of the heat sink surface.

I've tried to find some definitive information on the subject many time but have been unable to find anything relevant. I can find plenty on emissivity but not much on thermal conductivity or thermal resistance when used with heatsink paste or adhesive.

As a side note I think the non conductive nature of the anodized coating is a great advantage for light builds as it eliminates any short circuits in the event of wire failure or the new single sided drivers touching the heatsink base since +ve and -ve connections go through the board.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Man Jay that song brought back memories. Our bus driver used to play queen on the school bus in grade 7 (1984) when the class when on school camps. 

I look more like Frank-n-Furter from Rocky Horror in my stockings. The hot chips flying off the mill can burn a bit though


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Brad at work


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Holy crap Chris, I've got some big man boobs


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

hi all, im having some problems with my anodising setup and thought id ask the experts here, hopefully you'll be able to help me out

iv been trying for the last couple of days to get a few small parts anodiesed and dyed, but the dye dosn't want to soak into the anno.

i know iv got a layer of anodise, as its non-conductive, but the colors are extreamly wishy washy.

iv tried 2 diff peices, one came out better then the other, but is far from good. 

my set up:

3 ltrs electrolyte, 12% sulphuric acid (1 ltr @ 38% battery acid + 2 ltrs distilled water)
lab power supply 0-3A 0-20V
2 bits of ally plate for cathodes ( unknown alloy) also tried foil, but no real difference
using the 720 rule with 6 A/ft
dye is dylon fabric dye, velvet black ( though its blue???)

both parts werre scrubbed clean and then diped in warm caustic and rinsed in distilled water befor being put in the bath ( only anodised 1 bit at a time)

the first part is aprox 18 square inches so was put in for 2 hours with 0.75A
second was 12 square inches so had 2 hours at 0.5A

they both bubbled well and seemed to change color a bit, but the voltage didnt start low and increase, it started high (15 ish) and de-creased?????

i rinsed both parts and soaked them in warm dye for 30 mins or so befor boiling them in water.

end result. . . larger peice is a dull ally color with a hint of blue, smaler peice is a bit bluer. also i dont think the layer is all that strong.

anyone got any ideas what im doing wrong?

iv read far too much now, and have managed to confuse myself so its probably somthing simple, but could be lots of things.

my thoughts are .

wrong type of dye
acid wrong % for those currents
ally is an odd type that dosnt dye well
cathodes wrong type of ally

soo. anyone able to help me??? alternativly just list your exact setup ( that works) and ill try to copy it 

sorry about the rambling, was ment to be a short concise post lol


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I am betting its your Ali cathodes. if possible change to lead


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

troutie-mtb said:


> I am betting its your Ali cathodes. if possible change to lead


Agreed..
I'm still puzzled as to why some people say to use Ali as cathodes.. surely they must anodise over time?


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

ill see if i can find some lead, and try that.

does everthing lese seem correct though? every bit of info i read does things differently


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Aluminium cathodes are fine as long as they are 6063 T6 or T5 or 6101. The main advantage of alloy cathodes is that it conducts electricity better than lead and therefore lower voltages can be run which equals energy savings if on a commercial scale. If unsure of your alloy grade get some lead sheet from the hardware or plumbing supply store.

Your acid concentration should be 3:1 distilled water to battery acid. 

A couple of things come to mind. Did you do the water break test after degreasing your part to ensure there is no oil left on the surface. The water should sheet on your part and not bead anywhere. 

What grade of aluminium are you trying to anodize? Different grades will produce different shades

Personally when when I used dylon fabric dye it did not work very well. Perhaps the dye could be a problem. When I changed to a anodizing specific dye nothing has failed since. 

As for the anodizing voltages mine always start going up and then drop back down very close to the peak voltage indicated in the 720 rule calculator. 

If you want to shoot me a PM with your email address I can send you through an anodizing manual for the the LCD method of anodizing that explains everything. .


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I think people are using aluminum because it is simply easier to find. Lead isn't as common as it used to be. I found some at a local metal supplier in Denver but their minimum purchase was $25. So, I've got plenty of lead sheet. 
So does the lead ever get affected by the anodizing process or can it be used indefinitely as a cathode?
thanks,
Andy


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Andy13 said:


> I think people are using aluminum because it is simply easier to find. Lead isn't as common as it used to be. I found some at a local metal supplier in Denver but their minimum purchase was $25. So, I've got plenty of lead sheet.
> So does the lead ever get affected by the anodizing process or can it be used indefinitely as a cathode?
> thanks,
> Andy


I never leave my lead in the ano solution but store it in a mild neutralizing solution of water and bicarb. The lead will actually have a shorter life that a 6063 T6 cathode but on the scale of anodizing we do the lead sheets we bought should last a long time. By a long time I am thinking years since the erosion of the cathode is only very small.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

ill make a few more changes and see what i can acheive

iv not idea what grade alloy the bits are, they were just off cuts from bits of bar, could be anything.

parts were definatly squeeky clean, spent ages cleaning them + gave them a good dip in the caustic.

ill add another liter of water to the acid to drop the % down some more, im sure i read 10-15 % was right, but maby that was a diff method.

ill see what i can get in the way of other dyes, im not sure i trust dylon anyways, surely velvet black would actuallly be black?, not blue?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

b-bassett said:


> ill make a few more changes and see what i can acheive
> 
> iv not idea what grade alloy the bits are, they were just off cuts from bits of bar, could be anything.
> 
> ...


To me the dye sounds like the culprit since you anodized to a thickness of 1 mil and definitely had a layer of oxide. My black dylon dye was also blue/purple but seemed very coarse and therefore I questioned whether it was fine enough to soak into the pores.

I tried to find some liquid dye but to no avail so settled on buying anodizing dye from Caswell. Not that cheap but for time and effort involved in actually anodizing and the fact that the dye will last me a long time time it seemed like the safest option.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

i was wondering about the dye not being fine enough, im only going to do the odd bit here and there so was trying to do it cheap, with stuff iv got to hand.

problem is there are so many variables, anything could be throwing things off.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Jay what dye are you using as I see b-bassett is located in the uk so should be able to easily source the same stuff


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

would bog standard pen ink do the job?

ideally im after black but my understanding is that black is more tricky to get right, so another color will be fine


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

b-bassett said:


> would bog standard pen ink do the job?
> 
> ideally im after black but my understanding is that black is more tricky to get right, so another color will be fine


You could try that or RIT dye but they are not fade proof so will loose colour depth over time but since you are not riding out in the sun it shouldn't be a problem. I think others have also used food colouring and had success.

I was just reading of other guys that used the dylon black fabric dye and their parts came out a yellow bronze colour, the same as my parts did when I used it.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

brad72 said:


> You could try that or RIT dye but they are not fade proof so will loose colour depth over time but since you are not riding out in the sun it shouldn't be a problem. I think others have also used food colouring and had success.
> 
> I was just reading of other guys that used the dylon black fabric dye and their parts came out a yellow bronze colour, the same as my parts did when I used it.


am cooking up another small peice while im at work, will give it a dunk in ink to see what happens,

iv diluted the acid to 1:3 but cant find any lead at moment so will see how it goes.

odd that everyone else got yellow with that dye, minesdefinatly dark blue when mixed, and im getting some blue on that part. perhaps they actually got black dye though?

will let yuo know how it goes


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

well its time to report back.

part was in a 1:3 acid for 2 hours at 0.42A 

rinsed and dunked in pen ink, looked much better, warmed it up in the dye,rinsed and the color was still there, then stuck it in near boiling water... results...

a lot of the ink leached out during boiling  it is bluer then the fabric dye, but still not good.

iv chucked another bit in the tank, running it at 1 amp to see what will happen, might try boiling the ink with the part in it , see if that stops it leaching.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Can you provide us any pictures of during the process?
My experience is that if the dye doesn't take, its evident when dunking it in the dye. You will always get leeching when you plonk it in boiling water, but most of the colour should remain..


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

if i could find my camera id gladly take sum pics to help.
ill have another search for it.

being as the ink is water soluble i suspect a lot of it dissolved back out into the water befor the pores sealed up, 

things do seem to be slowly getting better but iv not got much time to devote to this after today. will mostly have to re-read stuff and gather more parts 

at least i do seem to be able to do clear coat.  just a shame the dyes i have to hand dont seem to want to soak in fully.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

For those in the UK here is a great product for cleaning and degreasing aluminium prior to anodising

Aluminium cleaner


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## piesoup (Feb 9, 2009)

Mr Muscle oven cleaner works a treat too. Don't use all of it or the wife gets cross!

b-b, have a look at jmprecision or gatros plating, I use their dyes. Not jm's black though, doesnt last long. Also, prior to sealing, hang the part over steam for 15mins, it helps stop leaching.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

well iv given up for the time being, havent got enough time to play every day.

being as im only creating the odd light here and there, i havent got a real pressing need anyways.

ill have to get sum more bits then have a play another time. 

thanks for all the advice, ill report back if i have any success.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

b-bassett said:


> well its time to report back.
> 
> part was in a 1:3 acid for 2 hours at 0.42A
> 
> ...


A couple of things you could try.

Do not boil the dye as the pores will seal up before any pigment gets in. The black dye I use recommends heating to around 50ºc. Also you can leave the part in the dye for a couple of hours if you like. Agitating the part can also help.

To stop a lot of the ink running out boil your sealing water and suspend your part in the steam for about 10 minutes. The heat of the steam will start to close the pores and inhibit the amount of dye leaching out.

Check your PM as I sent you through a message.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

i tried steaming the bit, but it didnt seem to help, maby i didnt do it long enough.

what i was planning was putting the part in cold dye, then slowly warming the dye up and eventually bringing it to a boil, i figure the dye should soak in deep, then wont be able to leach out into the sealing water.

iv got a part soaking in dye over night, have left it over a heater so it will stay warm, though im now thinking it may actually dry out over night. not sure what to expect in the morning, but i doubt ill be able to try any more bits for at least a week.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

you can get the gatoros dyes on ebay to..have a look earlier in this thread and you'll find the links i posted to them..
There black dye lasts ages and you get plenty of it..


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

thanks for the dye suggestions, ill prob get some orderd soon so i have it to hand nxt time i get a chance to play.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Ok I have decided to try to do some anodising. I have a couple of questions. Is it better to buy a kit or piece it together your self? I already ordered some Ti welding rods and anodising die's. 

I have read that people use batteries for the power source. D, 6 volt, car battery etc. Would my 14.8v li-ion bike battery work or would the PCB cause problems? I also have some ATX computer power supplies around but didn't know if you needed an AT one? How do you turn the ATX power supply on with no motherboard attached?

I am planning on going the Sodium Bisulfate route, any tips for just starting out?

Thanks,
Brent


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hi Brent,

The the most consistent results come from using a constant current power and setting the amps, leaving the volts to look after themselves. I anodize at 4.5A ft² and use a 720 rule calculator to tell me how many amps to use and how long to anodize for. However I know others have successfully used a pc psu with excellent results but I cannot comment on the method but here is a link to a guy who has DIY Anodizing guide - www.Motorcyclebuilders.net - You build it.. We show it to the world!

The most important thing in anodizing is cleanliness. The parts surface should be completely oil free before going into the acid solution. To test this you do a water break test after degreasing. The water should sheet across the surface and if any water beads, you need to go back and clean the part better. I use a Caswell degreaser that works really well.

It is alos important to regulate the temperature of the acid between 15-22ºc. I use bottles of frozen water submerged in the acid to keep my solution cool.

Have fun mate. It is certainly satisfying when it all comes together.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Little Jig I hacked together using Titanium welding rods


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

You like the spider theme don't you Chris? First it was spider eyes, now its grown legs


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Can anyone recommend a power supply that would work good for anodising for around $100 that ships to the US?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Mate I bought one of these and it as been really good APS3005S Variable 30V 5A DC Power Supply Lab Grade | eBay


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Mate I bought one of these and it as been really good APS3005S Variable 30V 5A DC Power Supply Lab Grade | eBay


Cool thanks, just ordered one. Got about half of my supplies. Just need some chemicals and some lead sheet now.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

success !! 

finally got some time to play. didnt really polish or clean the bits, but gave them a good fizz in caustic and a bit of a scrub, then chucked a bit in the tank.

upped the amps to 2x the amount id calculated then gave them around 2 hours.

and voila!! success 

took the dye imediately, and although not perfectly uniform, its a dammed sight better then the results i was getting the other week 

not entirely why its working now though ?? im sure my calcs are correct, and the only thing i can think of is that my acid is around 18C so i need a bit more current to compensate.

shame iv not got anything that needs doing now..


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Glad its working for you now bassatt..Any pics to share of your results?

Has anyone got an explanation of calculating mil thickness? How many mil should we be aiming for?
the 720p calculator gives you the option of 0.1-1 mil, I've just been choosing 1mil


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

ill see if i can snap a pic tomorro, but its nothing spectacular, was just a bit of scrap tube, thats now blue.

if i remember rightly you need about 0.5-0.7 ish for dying lighter colors, and around 1 mil for black.

thicker layers can be acheived but can become brittle and snap on edges. leaving white areas in the work piece.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Glad its working for you now bassatt..Any pics to share of your results?
> 
> Has anyone got an explanation of calculating mil thickness? How many mil should we be aiming for?
> the 720p calculator gives you the option of 0.1-1 mil, I've just been choosing 1mil


The thickness is dependant on the dye colour used and who's dye you are using. The 720 rule calculator make this pretty easy to get the right thickness as long as you have the surface area accurate. In saying that the pH of the dye is also very important to ensure it works correctly as is the temperature of the dye. (so many variables)

A couple of examples for the Caswell dye's I use:

For Red .......0.8-1.0mil (needs to be thick to get a good colour)
For Black..... 0.5-1.0mil
for Gold........ 0.2-0.3mil (thin coating gives gold, any thicker can risk an orange gold)

It kind of shows that the deeper/ darker colour you want, the thicker the coating required. Once I have a colour I like I write down the ano time and temp and dye time so It looks the same next time.

Uneven colour of a part can be due to a varying thickness if the anodized coating due to poor procedures.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> The thickness is dependant on the dye colour used and who's dye you are using. The 720 rule calculator make this pretty easy to get the right thickness as long as you have the surface area accurate. In saying that the pH of the dye is also very important to ensure it works correctly as is the temperature of the dye. (so many variables)
> 
> A couple of examples for the Caswell dye's I use:
> 
> ...


Cheers for the examples..and Bassett..
I ano'd a black today using the 720 rule..came out fine..1 amp for 2 hours
One thing i can say, about the 720 method is that there is less fumes!!









I've got another one of these to try some gold on..
The Sanodal Gold 4N dye data sheet, is the only one with no guide on different ano thickness..the other sheets do for red/blue/black..
The data sheet for the Gold also mentions PH etc...


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Jay, the black looks really good. The 720 rule and LCD method (low current density), apart fr0m less fumes also helps in less heat being generated in the ano tank and always gives consistent results. Too much heat in the tank can cause a softer coating which we don't want, although in a British winter you probably have trouble heating the ano tank up. I am the opposite and have to get mine cold before I start.

The Gold S I have recommends a 0.3mil max thickness and a dye time of 2-3 minutes with a dye temp of 140F and a pH of 6. If you go too thick and too long in the dye you get an golden orange look. 

Maybe time to make some test discs so you can play around with the times


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

that black does indeed look good. :thumbsup:

iv noticed the 720 online calculator is offline  did anyone download it for reference? or did you all do as i did and just bookmark the page? :???:

also iv got a few batt tubes (maglite tubes) that have seen better days, was wondering about re-doing the anno on the damaged sections, but leaving the rest alone. anyone tried this? im not sure if the batt acid would eat the origional layer or wheather it would be fine. also what would happen at the transition point form the new layer being grown to the origional??

maby im better off just testing, to find out.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Hey mate, use this calculator for now https://www.caswellplating.com/720.html

As for ano repair I reckon it would be easier to soak the tubes in some casutic to remove the old anodized surface and start again. You know when the old anodized layer has been removed as the surface will conduct electricity (use a mulitmeter set to continuity). Then de-smut, ano and dye.

Alternatively you could mask the areas that are ok with ano mask and follow the above procedure.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

b-bassett said:


> that black does indeed look good. :thumbsup:
> 
> iv noticed the 720 online calculator is offline  did anyone download it for reference? or did you all do as i did and just bookmark the page? :???:
> 
> ...


This ones working for me https://www.caswellplating.com/720.html

It's funny you ask about the anodizing damaged sections...to be honest you are probably best etching the original ano off and starting again. This way you should get even covarage and dye saturation.

But the funny part is, its very simular to what i had in mind.. I was thinking of anodizing a incomplete housing, when i say incomplete i mean not fully machined.
Once the unfinished housing is anodized then machine some slots of grooves, so that your back to bare metal.
Then back in the ano tank, and use a different colour dye so you end up with something like this. You would have to skip the etching stage though..


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

thanks for that link  the one i was using has gone.

im doing a test as we speak. stripping anno off of the end 4 inches, then ill dunk as much into the tank as i can and see what happens.

iv taken a pic on my crappy phone, hopefully it will show sumthing. the damage isnt bad, just small chips/scratchs from being run over and vice marks.

well it is in the tank, de-annod area is about 60 inches so im using 2.5 amps for a couple of hours.

origional end










anno remoevd, just soaked it for a while and wiped, no other polishing/cleaning










in the tank filled to the brim.










hopefully the additional area thats already annodised wont mess up the calculation too much.

alson hoping things warm up a bit, its running ar 12 C currently


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

quick update

first attempt didnt anno properly, so i striopped it and tried again at higher current. gave off tons of fumes, but seeems to have done the job, is soaking over night in dye, as i ran out of time.

not sure why but some of the origional anno has flaked off, seems to ahve been around a damaged bit. not sure if this is due to the acid bath, or wheather due to the tubes usage as a dive light.

update: pic of results!










as you can see the line form old to new is 'fuzzy' i reckon this is due to the caustic,
the stripped bit has annod and dyed ok ish, (pic looks a bit better than rl)
the nicks/damaged bits that wernt stripped have sort of annodised, but the surrounding area has flaked off

i def wouldnt recomend doing this for a nice light though, the transistion from old to new, just dosnt seem to work nicly. it would be much easier to anno the finished part then either mask off areas, and dye the darker colors first, or to dye the whole piece, then bleach out area's for re-dying.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Glad to see you are getting some results b-bassett:thumbsup:

Jay, I had the same idea as you, having different coloured grooves. If you main colour is black you could anodize the housing, fill the grooves with ano mask, let it dry then dye the whole think black. remove it from the dye, peel of the ano mask then into the blue. This method will only work however if you are using black as the base colour.

The other method i am going to try is the splash ano one. Dye the entire housing for example blue, mask off what you want to stay blue, dunk into a bleech solution to strip the blue, rinse in the ano acid solution then rinse in bicarb soln then distilled water, then into the black, or whatever colour you want. I'm just trying to find a fast drying mask that can be easily removed without solvents. My shed already resembles a meth lab as it is.  I have used the bleach solution quite a few times when the colour I got was not right, meaning I could re-dye to get what I wanted.

This video is a pretty good example How to: 3 color anodizing - Spyderco Manix handle with engraving - YouTube


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

right time for an update!

second attempt worked better, not briliant, but the dye took this time

got sum weird results though, the bare part has dyed fairly well, and a few of the nicks have also taken dye and the majority of the origional anno seems good.

the join line from old to new, has a definate ridge, but is fairly consistant so i dont think its too bad.

the origional anno has flaked off around a few of the origional nicks though, but im fairly sure this is down to salt water corosion, getting under the origionall anno. maby the re-anno made it worse, but for new parts i dont think this would happen.

id suggest the masking off befor dyeing is a better option though, i think nail polish would work for that.

iv also managed a fade dye job, origional amount of dye wasnt high enough so i added distilled water till the part was coverd, although iv ended up with faint line, the majority of the colour is a fairly even fade.

ill snap a pic of 2 tomorro to show.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Another calc 720 Rule Anodizing Calculator
Save the webpage and you can use it offline..or even on a mobile..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

I managed to try a few more colours today and though I would post the results

All of the pieces were anodized to 0.8mil, and the dye temps were all 43ºc. The dyes are all Caswell. My yellow dye from the bottle was a bit thick so I am unsure if it was off but is still worked ok, if not gold. At no point did it look yellow but the ano thickness was probably too much for yellow. It should have been about 0.3 mil to get yellow but I didn't have time to run 2 batches.

I kept checking the results every 30 seconds and pulled out the part after the colour looked the best.

Here are the results and times in the dye: (colours are a bit lighter in the flesh)

Violet 3D after 1 min
Yellow 4A after 12 min
Orange 3A after 8 min










Same housings again but out in the sunlight. Colour is a bit more accurate


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Nice colours...
What are these housings for?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Nice colours...
> What are these housings for?


The are single xpg /regina housing with external driver (or Quazzle light engine) that I had sitting in my housing graveyard.

The colours do look pretty good. The violet was amazing as after 30 seconds in the dye it was ready. I nearly though 1 minute was too long but it came out all right. Now my kids want me to make some lights for them for winter and use the pretty colours as they put it.

I have gold coming Monday so I will make a couple of test housings and anodize them to 0.3mil to see the difference in the yellow.

.


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## The Understater (May 6, 2007)

I like the yellow. I'll be looking forward to a comparison shot with the gold.

b.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Right here's my first bash at Gold..
It was really hard trying to get a pic that actually shows what it looks like to the eye..



















Using the Sanodal Gold 4N dye..
I mixed 20g of Gold with 1 litre of water..Heat up the water first and mix in the powder..
Then let it cool to the desired temperture..40-55°C, for pale shades 30-40°C

Anodised for a 0.8mil thickness 0.83 amps for 96mins
Into the gold Dye at 44°C for 6mins.. The first 2 mins nothing happens, so you think that its not working..But then the colour starts to creep in..

http://www.pionmi.hk/en/pdf/A/A 101.pdf


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

OK, I am firmly convinced that you guys are showing off this beautiful work to push me to set up my own ano line.:thumbsup:


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

The gold looks excellent Jay :thumbsup: . Hope my gold arrives today.

Vancbiker...I think you have already made up your mind




.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Cheers Brad..I'm rather chuffed with my first atampt at Gold..
Although the first two mins, i was thinking dam its not working! then i got all excited when it started to take...i went into the living room with the jug off dye, and said to the mrs "look at the magic happening" 
One thing i did notice was that when you seal it, it does go slightly darker..

Come on Vancbiker..you know you want to..its the icing on the cake


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

That's where the violet amazed me. After dunking in the dye for about 10 seconds colour was really intense. Wish all the colours did that

Better watch out Jay, you might have Gold Member knocking down your door


.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I liked the yellow too, thinking wow how gold do you guys want the gold to be, but then I saw Goldigger's gold and now know where he got his "handle" from. Looks like you can put down that shovel mate :thumbsup:

I also like the violet, is there something wrong with me? 

Nice work boys and thanks for sharing.


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## who_is_john_galt (Jan 9, 2010)

The violet and the orange are phenomenal! Nice job.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

who_is_john_galt said:


> The violet and the orange are phenomenal! Nice job.


Thanks Mate.

As a side experiment I though I would test how much the anodized surface insulates against electrical shorts, and insulates the driver when it is glued directly to the housing. So out with my Mega Meter (insulation tester). Anyway at 1000 V no continuity, except on really sharp corners where we already know the anodized coating is very thin (all edges should be rounded as best practice)

So this tells me it is fine to mount the driver directly to the anodized surface without risk of shorts. (please correct me if I am wrong)

.


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## b-bassett (Jan 26, 2012)

> So this tells me it is fine to mount the driver directly to the anodized surface without risk of shorts. (please correct me if I am wrong)


that theory sounds good to me.

i know others have been bonding leds direct to annoed heatrsinks, and with an insulation resistance that high, there shouldnt be any probs what so ever. 
just ensure that the area is all good befor attaching the driver, i.e. no nickes in the anno etc.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Finally got my setup running. First test piece last night. Still got some tweaking and bugs to work out but I think that its working.

Before:









After:


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice work Brent. It's a great feeling of satisfaction when it all comes together.


.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Nice work Brent. It's a great feeling of satisfaction when it all comes together.
> .


Ya I finished that at like 2 am last night. After mixing up all the chemecials I couldn't wait another day to test it out. Only setup the etch, desmut, and ano tanks. Still need to do the cleaner and sealer tanks. Working on ways to keep them warm though. Also I did a 2 gallon setup for everything except the dyes. I bought the dies on ebay but the powder is only enough to make half a liter. So that test part wouldn't even fit in the dye. Had to die half of it for 5 min then stick the other half in so the color isn't even at all. Just another bug to work out. The main thing is atleast it looks like is actually anodising. I am using the sodium bisulfate so I was alittle worried about that. I did 11.5 sq/in at .49 amps for 1 hr and 48 min. Volts started around 21v and when I took it out it was around 19/20v. Does this sound right? Bubbles were seen on the part and cathodes.










Also my instructions for the dye say to boil the dye and then drop the part in. But I thought this would seal it at the same time. I boiled the dye to mix it and let it cool to room temp before putting the part in. Then I boiled after to seal. Does this sound right or are some dye made to be put in hot?

This is the dye I am using.
Aluminum Anodizing Dye Paint Color | eBay

Going to do more testing tonight.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Everything looks good Brent and a nice setup you have there 

Regarding the dye's I have my black at 60ºc but all the other colours at about 40ºc. As you quite rightly said a temp of 100ºc will seal the part before the full colour is reached. 

With you volts if you have the power supply on constant current (both voltage knobs on max), the power supply will adjust the volts up/down to keep the amps at what you set them at. The only reason why your volts could be around 20 is either bad connections or the aluminium was a little oxidized still meaning more volts are need to get the amps. The peak voltage should be around 11.5volts at the end of the time in the acid, but it still worked so all good. 

Cheers

Brad


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Everything looks good Brent and a nice setup you have there
> 
> Regarding the dye's I have my black at 60ºc but all the other colours at about 40ºc. As you quite rightly said a temp of 100ºc will seal the part before the full colour is reached.
> 
> ...


Ok I am going to try again and I will monitor the volts to see if they change. I am going to use the same test piece but drill a hole to insure a good wire connection. I think I am just re-etch the piece to get the ago off and do it again right?

Also could the volts be high because of using sodium bisulfate instead of the battery acid? I think I remember reading someone also having high volts with bisulfate. Is that what everyone is using here?

-Brent


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

brent878 said:


> Also could the volts be high because of using sodium bisulfate instead of the battery acid? I think I remember reading someone also having high volts with bisulfate. Is that what everyone is using here?
> 
> -Brent


I have only ever used sodium bisulphate and the volts are usually about the same as the 720 rule calculator at the end, if not a few volts over. For a 70in² part the volts start at around 17 then tail off to about 12-13 at the end. In reality though if the part is getting anodized nicely, the volts may not be so important as it's just the power supply doing it's job. Only if you were doing a very large part and you ran out of volts to drive the amps would it be a concern.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

brad72 said:


> I have only ever used sodium bisulphate and the volts are usually about the same as the 720 rule calculator at the end, if not a few volts over. For a 70in² part the volts start at around 17 then tail off to about 12-13 at the end. In reality though if the part is getting anodized nicely, the volts may not be so important as it's just the power supply doing it's job. Only if you were doing a very large part and you ran out of volts to drive the amps would it be a concern.


Ok I just put it in the ano bath. About the same voltage 20v with a .48 amp current. If the square inch is 11.5 how long should I keep it in. When I did my calculations it should be in there 108 min for a .9 mil thickness and a 6 amp/ft density. It says I should have a 15v peak but mine starts out at 20v. Should I keep it in longer than the 108 min? When I took it out last night the voltage only dropped about 2v in 108 min in a 3 gallon solution.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

brent878 said:


> Ok I just put it in the ano bath. About the same voltage 20v with a .48 amp current. If the square inch is 11.5 how long should I keep it in. When I did my calculations it should be in there 108 min for a .9 mil thickness and a 6 amp/ft density. It says I should have a 15v peak but mine starts out at 20v. Should I keep it in longer than the 108 min? When I took it out last night the voltage only dropped about 2v in 108 min in a 3 gallon solution.


I work pretty much to whatever time and amperage the 720 rule calculator tells me.

As a side note for larger parts (70in²) I use 4.5Aft² just to keep the ano bath from heating up, but that is mainly because the ambient temp was around 30ºc. In winter the 6Aft² will be fine.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Here is the result from tonight.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

:thumbsup:Sweet


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Here's a gold housing. The surface was buffed to just under a mirror finish.

I anodized to 0.3mil and had the part in the "Caswell gold s" dye for 4 minutes. The dye temp was 43ºc.










I might strip the yellow and orange housings and see how they turn out if only anodize them to 0.3 mil

.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Looks good brad, only thing I can say is that if it were more polished it would set it off better...but then might just be the pic?
How comes only 0.3mil? Seems rather thin compared to my 0.8, but then I just went by what the data sheets said for my gold dye..which as you know is different to yours.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> Looks good brad, only thing I can say is that if it were more polished it would set it off better...but then might just be the pic?
> How comes only 0.3mil? Seems rather thin compared to my 0.8, but then I just went by what the data sheets said for my gold dye..which as you know is different to yours.


Yep Jay, the recommendation was 0.3 mil to get a realistic gold. In fact in the flesh it looks a little too dark and a bit fake. About 1 minute less in the dye would have been perfect. The colour is just a little more orange than 9ct gold.

I do certainly agree with your comment about the surface finish. A high gloss finish before anodizing give the best result with a shorter time in the de-smut so the mirror finish is not dulled as much.

What I have found is the thickness of the ano coating makes a huge difference to how the finished colour turns out. For example if black is done below 1.0mil it comes out with a blue/purple tinge as the pore size below 1mil is too small for the black pigments to take properly.

.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

I need a polishing mop..do I just buy a bench grinder and fit the polishing mops?
Something like this?
Buy Axminster AWBGDL Wide Stone Grinder from Axminster, fast delivery for the UK


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

no, you will need a long spindle and an exposed mop
so you can twist and turn your work 

Polishing machines | Polishing Lathes


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> no, you will need a long spindle and an exposed mop
> so you can twist and turn your work
> 
> Polishing machines | Polishing Lathes


This is one of the images from the link i posted..
I'm assuming this will let me both grind tool steel and polish?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

lol  i only saw the bench grinder!
yep with the adapter that will be fine!


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

All looks good Jay. I used to use a fine white grinding stone for sharpening the tool steel. Gives a nice clean edge. 

You will certainly polish a lot quicker with some cutting compound and buffs. 

As a side note I am going to automate the anodizing part of my line so I can put parts on before work and dye when i get home, given the fact that some parts take 160 minutes to anodize. The idea will be to have the parts automatically lift out of the ano solution when the time is up, drip for a few minutes the move across and into the bucket of neutralizer and get dunked up and down for a few minutes, then move into a bucket of distilled water ready to be dyed.

I'll probably use a plc, couple of stepper motors and drives and some linear tracks and bearings. Will be very simple but will save me a lot of time. 


.


.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

brad72 said:


> All looks good Jay. I used to use a fine white grinding stone for sharpening the tool steel. Gives a nice clean edge.
> 
> You will certainly polish a lot quicker with some cutting compound and buffs.
> 
> ...


How long will it be between anodising and dying? I read a simular post about racking and then dying later..
The response was to dunk the parts back into the electrolyte to open the pores up again, I think thats only required if the part has dried inbetween...keeping it wet might just be fine.

On a different note, what do you use to clean off the polishing compound? I bought a load of polishing mops, and some blue polishing compound.
I stripped the crap blue ano which took 35mins in the ano stripper, polished it up ready for round two.
I normally just use washing liquid a tooth brush and hot water..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Goldigger said:


> How long will it be between anodising and dying? I read a simular post about racking and then dying later..
> The response was to dunk the parts back into the electrolyte to open the pores up again, I think thats only required if the part has dried inbetween...keeping it wet might just be fine.
> 
> On a different note, what do you use to clean off the polishing compound? I bought a load of polishing mops, and some blue polishing compound.
> ...


What I do is leave all my anodized parts in distilled water till I am ready to dye to stop them oxidizing. The longest I have left them is about 6-8 hours with no problems. When i tried the 2 tone housing the first time parts of the housing dried during the process and those parts did not take the dye very well so the unsealed anodized coating must oxidise pretty quickly if left to dry. Dunking back in the acid therefore makes sense.

As for polishing I have 2 different mops (medium and fine) with 2 different compounds. I make sure that I clean the part well before going to the fine compound so I don't contaminate the loose buffing mop.

I do the same as you for cleaning off the compound. Warm water, dish soap and a toothbrush. It's amazing just how much compound is left on the part when it looks clean. I also give the entire part a wipe over with isopropyl alcohol before going into the degreaser just for an extra measure.

.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

This one is a second attempt..i ano'd it blue last weekend but wasn't happy with the result. I'm positive it was down to not polishing it properly..
So i stripped it and polished it on some polishing wheels in the spindle on the mill..Went for red as now it matches the tripple XT-E helmet light..


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Wow Jay, the red came out beautifully. The anodizing is nearly as addictive as making lights


.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

brad72 said:


> What I do is leave all my anodized parts in distilled water till I am ready to dye to stop them oxidizing. The longest I have left them is about 6-8 hours with no problems. When i tried the 2 tone housing the first time parts of the housing dried during the process and those parts did not take the dye very well so the unsealed anodized coating must oxidise pretty quickly if left to dry. Dunking back in the acid therefore makes sense.
> 
> As for polishing I have 2 different mops (medium and fine) with 2 different compounds. I make sure that I clean the part well before going to the fine compound so I don't contaminate the loose buffing mop.
> 
> ...


Hmm this is interesting. I am playing around with fading two colors right now and what I have been doing since I am limited on time is one night I will anodize several pieces and I just leave them sumurgized in my rinse tank (distilled water) before the dye and sealing and I take them out the next day and try and do my dying and sealing. So far 24 hours and it still takes the dye and seal. I have one still in the rinse that I did last week and haven't died yet. That should be interesting once I get my jig for fading setup. I heard that you shouldn't let them dry inbetween but didni't know the reason.

Question for fading. How are you guys doing your fading? I just held it in the dye by hand half way in the dye for the first test. Of course it didn't come out even. I am now in the process of building something to raise and lower the part to get an even fade. Last night I started building a little jig to raise and lower out of chop sticks and glue and fishing line. Haven't tried it out yet so I don't know if it will work.

Here is my last test. The orange is just me testing my orange color. It was too gold so I added red into it. But the black/red fade is what I am going for. This side looks pretty even but the other side is not. But even this side isn't much of a fade more of black then red. I did the black half first then put the whole thing in red to finish. Should I try the red first?










Oh and for cleaner have been using Anodizing Aluminum
I tried dish water soap and scrubbing but I could never get the buffing compound off. It would never pass the water break test. 5 min in this cleaner and it gets everything off. I am not even sure what's in it but I know it works, haha. I only use the dish water soap now to get dirt and loose stuff off of the parts. You do need to heat up the cleaner to 140 degree's so that's alittle challenge.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Your last test looks like you achieved what you are after.:thumbsup:

After much trial and error I did the same as you by doing the black 1st then the dropping the whole housing into the red. But like you said I needed something to securely hold the part to stop it from moving. I did stuff it up a few times so it went into the bleach solution to remove the dye, then i started the dying again. I don't thing this method will work for lighter colours tough and I don't really want to use masks as they might be a pain to clean off. 

The only other thing I did was to mist some water on the exposed part of the housing to stop it drying out. I am not sure if I needed to but I figured better safe than sorry. Might need to do another trial to see if it is necessary and to see how long a part can sit out before it doesn't take dye.

.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

brad72 said:


> Your last test looks like you achieved what you are after.:thumbsup:
> 
> After much trial and error I did the same as you by doing the black 1st then the dropping the whole housing into the red. But like you said I needed something to securely hold the part to stop it from moving. I did stuff it up a few times so it went into the bleach solution to remove the dye, then i started the dying again. I don't thing this method will work for lighter colours tough and I don't really want to use masks as they might be a pain to clean off.
> 
> ...


I have another question. If you are doing 2 different colors how do you adjust your settings? For black I have been doing 1 mil @ 6 amp/ft but for the orange I have been at about .6 mil @ 4.5 amp/ft. I want to fade black to orange but not sure if I should anodyize for .6 mil or 1 mil or inbetween? I haven't tested black at .6mil nor orange at 1 mil so I don't know how they will react. Also just bought a different brand of dye's so they are all untested as well.

Something tells me I should keep these 2 new lights simple and just do one color each but the fading looks so cool, haha.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

brent878 said:


> I have another question. If you are doing 2 different colors how do you adjust your settings? For black I have been doing 1 mil @ 6 amp/ft but for the orange I have been at about .6 mil @ 4.5 amp/ft. I want to fade black to orange but not sure if I should anodyize for .6 mil or 1 mil or inbetween? I haven't tested black at .6mil nor orange at 1 mil so I don't know how they will react. Also just bought a different brand of dye's so they are all untested as well.
> 
> Something tells me I should keep these 2 new lights simple and just do one color each but the fading looks so cool, haha.


I can tell you from experience that black at 0.6mil will come out dark grey/purple and no matter how long you leave it in the dye, will never go black. I have found that black has to be 1.0mil to allow the black pigment to get in and look good. On thing that can be done though is you can anodize a part for longer even if it has been dyed, but not sealed. The black parts that didn't work at 0.6 mil went back into the ano tank for another 48 minutes at the same settings to get a 1.0 mil thickness. When they went back into the black dye within 1 minute they were midnight black and looked fantastic.

What you could do is anodize to 1 mil, dye the black first, but use a diluted solution of orange so it comes out looking right. You other option would be to only have the part in the orange in the dye for a short amount of time checking it every 10-20 seconds, and spray rinsing to see the true colour each time. The purple for example took only 30 seconds to look good, any longer would have ruined it.

I have been keeping a chart of how long I each part spends in the dye at a given ano thickness to take the guess work out of it. Just have to remember to update it each time.

.


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Finished my first fade job. Had to redo it a couple of times to get it looking right.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Very nice Brent :thumbsup:

.


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## ThinkBike (Jun 16, 2010)

Very nice for first try. I like it.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Good job brent.. :thumbsup:
Do you contaminate the dyes when fade dying? or did you drop it into the red first then rinse and in to the black?


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Goldigger said:


> Good job brent.. :thumbsup:
> Do you contaminate the dyes when fade dying? or did you drop it into the red first then rinse and in to the black?


I would rinse between dyes. I also sprayed water on the exposed part so it doesn't dry out like someone suggested is this thread. Also if you guys own a drill press that is what I used to raise and lower the dye and made it alot easier to control. At first I made alittle jig to raise and lower the part into the dye but had trouble controlling the rate so I ditched that setup in the testing phase.

First Jig:









Drill press, I just use the crank to raise and lower the vice with the dye or use the handle to bring the part into the dye. If only for a few seconds I would use the handle, if more then I would use the crank. I would spray water on it very 3-5 min.


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## Mark2c (Apr 25, 2007)

Engineer guy does anodising - well worth a look: Anodizing (Or the beauty of corrosion) - YouTube


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi chaps
done a couple of body's now one orange and one blue with a orange lens cover to match the owners bike which is orange with ano blue bits

















regards thwang


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Very nice thwang, one of those would look great on a vintage Yeti.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Nice work Twang. Looks good matching the lights to the rest of the bike bling.

What is the blue as I haven't seen one so light in shade

I added constant wattage heat trace around my ano tank on the weekend to get the temp up to 18ºc since it was only 6ºc and too cold to get a good pore size for the black dye to take properly, even anodizing to 1mil. Certainly easier heating the ano tank in winter than cooling it it summer


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## thwang-01 (Jul 5, 2008)

hi chaps
i got the dye of eBay brad I wouldn't mind some darker dyes. I wouldn't mind a vintage yeti myself 
thwang


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## bird_e (Jul 17, 2006)

*Nice job and question*



Goldigger said:


> These pics are on my other thread, but wanted to keep this thread alive by added another color..
> 
> [I still need to have a bash a the gold dye yet..Troutie have you tried your gold yet?


Your blue look beautiful!

I was wondering what those connectors are called and where did you get them?
I have seen them on industrial sensors and such, just not sure what they are called and the size and how to obtain them
Thanks!
Bob


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## adrenalnjunky (Jul 28, 2007)

bird_e said:


> Your blue look beautiful!
> 
> I was wondering what those connectors are called and where did you get them?
> I have seen them on industrial sensors and such, just not sure what they are called and the size and how to obtain them
> ...


I think he provides his connector info here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/8637499-post130.html


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## ndrordr (Dec 11, 2008)

*Potential US supplier*

HTM Sensors

This supplier has what I think are compatible cables. I think the designation of the form factor is M8 Pico connectors. They are used primarily in the Industrial sensor field. I have yet to find 2 pin connectors, HTM Sensors carries the 3 and 4 pin cables in multiple lengths.


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Does anyone have surefire way of removing anodization, the actual oxide layer so the surface can be painted? I heard oven cleaner works but I have not tried it yet. What is the active ingredient that removes the ano in those cleaners?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

car bone said:


> Does anyone have surefire way of removing anodization, the actual oxide layer so the surface can be painted? I heard oven cleaner works but I have not tried it yet. What is the active ingredient that removes the ano in those cleaners?


Yes Caustic soda sometimes sold as drain unblocker but be very careful it can eat your flesh

and it works faster if warmed up


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

car bone said:


> Does anyone have surefire way of removing anodization, the actual oxide layer so the surface can be painted? I heard oven cleaner works but I have not tried it yet. What is the active ingredient that removes the ano in those cleaners?


I use a caustic drain cleaner solution in a bucket and it does a cracker job. To check if the old oxide / ano layer has been removed just check the surface conductivity with your multimeter. If there is little to no conductivity leave it it longer.

Like Troutie said if you heat it it works quicker but I use it cold and in the time I've had a cup of tea or a beer it is usually done.

Usually your part will go a horrible black colour but a few minutes in some de-smut will bring it back like new.


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## vallka (Sep 20, 2012)

anyone know if you can anodize copper tubing?


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

vallka said:


> anyone know if you can anodize copper tubing?


Unfortunately not but you can get chrome plating kits for it, but this will only make it nice a shiny and not really improve the emissivity of the copper


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

Jack477 said:


> i bought all bits to home anodize but havnt plucked the courage up to have a go just yet im going to use a cb radio power suply.


Once you do it you will wonder why you didn't do it sooner


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes Caustic soda sometimes sold as drain unblocker but be very careful it can eat your flesh


take the warnings seriously, I have a prominent scar on my face from the stuff


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## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

unterhausen said:


> take the warnings seriously, I have a prominent scar on my face from the stuff


I have used that for 15 years off and on for different things and not once have I gotten it on me. It needs water to get dangerous. The powder itself is harmless to get on your skin if you are dry that is.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I have by anodizing setup working and have done a couple of light bodies. As you can see the results are OK, but not as amazing as some of the other posters. I am using the powdered black dye from e-bay. My body was polished pretty nice, IMO, and I can't get into the channels but wasn't too concerned about that. Some of you are mentioning 'polishing' the finish after anodizing. What are you using? 
I did some multiple parts and the 720 calculator I used called for 1.5A for 2 hrs. In dye tank for 45 minutes and boiled in water for 30 min. 
thanks for all the help.
andy


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

You most likely did, but did you wash and degrease the part...then etch and brighten? 
Give the part a rub over with some WD40 or something like 3 in 1 oil.. use some elbow grease and you should get rid of those white marks..
Unless that's where the dye hasn't taken evenly, which could be because of grease/dirt on the part still..
Did you heat the dye up also?


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

I polished all the surfaces except in the grooves. Wet sanded up to 3000 grit then polished, all by hand. Cleaned in dawn dish soap, rinsed in distilled water. Dipped in lye for 3 minutes, rinsed and then anodized. I'll hit it w/ some WD40. Thanks!


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## brent878 (Apr 17, 2007)

Andy13 said:


> I polished all the surfaces except in the grooves. Wet sanded up to 3000 grit then polished, all by hand. Cleaned in dawn dish soap, rinsed in distilled water. Dipped in lye for 3 minutes, rinsed and then anodized. I'll hit it w/ some WD40. Thanks!


I found dawn wouldn't get all my polish compound off and wasn't getting a good anodize. Before you etch it does it pass the water break test? I am also using the ebay powder and haven't had any problems with the colors. What thickness are you doing it at. I found for black I had to go to 1 mil or it wouldn't take.

Also when I do a polished item I skip the etch, I just make sure its super clean and then I desmut for 3 min then anodize. Etching it will take the shine away. Also my ebay colors said to boil them but I put the parts in cold and then boil after with sealer.

On this part I polished the housing, boiled the parts in my cleaner, then went strait to desmut skipping etch, then to anodizing , then to black dye, then red dye, then sealer.









I got my cleaner, etch, desmut and sealer from this site. I recommend the cleaner as it was way better than dawn. I bought them in 2 gallon quanties Anodizing Aluminum

Also started using these dye's instead. Anodizing Dyes - Anodizing Products - Electroplating & Anodizing - Caswell Inc My ebay dyes were only good for about a pint and were $10 bucks a color. Over here I can get 2 gallons worth for about the same price. So far I have only tried red but it came out close the ebay one. Just slightly different shade but still looks good. Its also liquid instead of powder, not sure if that matters.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

The WD40 cleaning really 'shined' it up. The dawn did pass the water break test. I am using lye after the cleaning, I can't remember if the lye bath is a substitute for the etch or the desmut. I heated my dye to 100F. I heard the black took 1 mil so that is what I used for the 720 calculator. I am not using a sealer, just boiling it for 30 minutes after the dye tank. Thanks for the sources for dyes and supplies. I had seen them on the thread but thought the dye was more expensive.


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## appy0780 (Sep 30, 2011)

great thread this is what the internets for..And porn obviously


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I know that this is a super old thread, but I finally anodised my first piece this week, even though I've had the itch for literally years and the gear for over 4 years.

Not a light, but a bike part nonetheless - some hub adapters for a new to me set of DT Swiss 350 wheels that are going on my commuter eBike.
















they're supposed to be black, but I used black Rit dye (what I had on hand) and they came out dark brown/ bronze like others have experienced. They still look fine and I'm saving up for some proper black dye from Caswell as I have a light in the works...


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## adrenalnjunky (Jul 28, 2007)

mattthemuppet said:


> I know that this is a super old thread, but I finally anodised my first piece this week, even though I've had the itch for literally years and the gear for over 4 years.
> 
> Not a light, but a bike part nonetheless - some hub adapters for a new to me set of DT Swiss 350 wheels that are going on my commuter eBike.
> 
> ...


Very cool!!! I know it has been quite a while since I've been on these boards - honestly, once I got a few lights dialed in, I focused on riding more than building. I *gasp* even bought in on the Outbound Lighting kickstarter for their light design - really interested to get come ride time in with it soon.


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## brad72 (Jun 12, 2009)

mattthemuppet said:


> I know that this is a super old thread, but I finally anodised my first piece this week, even though I've had the itch for literally years and the gear for over 4 years.
> 
> Not a light, but a bike part nonetheless - some hub adapters for a new to me set of DT Swiss 350 wheels that are going on my commuter eBike.
> 
> they're supposed to be black, but I used black Rit dye (what I had on hand) and they came out dark brown/ bronze like others have experienced. They still look fine and I'm saving up for some proper black dye from Caswell as I have a light in the works...


Nice one mate. Haven't built a light in years, but still using the ones i made all those years ago. Just 3D print new mounts from time to time.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

thanks, if we hadn't moved around so much I would have started anodising years ago! I sold my 2 big night riding lights about 4 years ago when we moved from Pennsylvania, then never got in with a night riding crowd so my single LED DIY commuter lights were more than enough. Now I do most (almost all) of my riding on the road commuting to work, but I need a non-flashing bar mounted light for when the evenings draw in. I'll post up a build thread when I get started!


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## JackOfDiamonds (Apr 17, 2020)

I have been anodizing 6061 parts in my garage for a while. It's too easy not to do. No special advice to offer, just get a copy of the Caswell LCD method and follow that. Easy as pie.


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