# Alternative to clipless Pedals? Anything close?



## surftime (Nov 15, 2010)

New to MTB but have road biked in the past so I have worn clipless pedals. MY thing is that i dont want to accidentally stay clipped in if i crash or go down - so what is another decent alternative? How about some spiky pedals and those super tacky rubber shoes (forgot the name of the rubber)? I heard they are close?? For those who dont clip in - what do you do because on the climb my shoes occasionally slip off the pedals.

I could totally see that clipping in would help huge while climbing and mountain biking is a constant climb and downhill and where i am, not too many flat areas. 

My thing is that I dont want to tweak a knee if I go down and cant get out of my pedals? Should I not be worried about that?

thanks!


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## jbrow1 (Oct 15, 2010)

Get a decent pair of flat pedals, with the stainless steel (replaceable) screws that stick up. They have a very big platform for pushing, the screws will grip anything, they are nearly as good as clipless IMO. I've been riding with clipless and those type pedals this summer. I just put my clipless back on because I like the float my foot has while still being connected. I put the flats on when I want to practice stuff like wheelies, hops, going over stuff I might fall on. The flats I got work excellent and do not slip, they were $21 at the LBS.


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## jstaples (Apr 27, 2010)

You are probably thinking of the Stealth Rubber on Five Ten's shoe line. I have been riding with those for about a month and really like it so far. Still scared to go clipless because I wreck too much.


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

There's a learning curve with clipless, but if you start out off road with something like Shimano SPD's, you can adjust them to be loose enough that you should be able to easily get out of them in most any situation.

That said, there's nothing wrong with platforms. If you have the means, I would try both and see which you like best.


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## nyczbubba (Aug 27, 2010)

Yeah I Five Tens are the shoes that are good for MTB with Flats. Alot of pedals out there you really got to find out what fits best your needs. If you are just going to do XC riding I'd say get a light pedal. If you plan on doing jumps and stuff I'd get a more durable one. Here is a thread on a bunch of pedals people use and their thoughts. http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=580242


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## [email protected] (Dec 11, 2010)

I've been riding with clipless pedals for a quite a few years now and I can take my feet off the pedals just as fast as if I were using platforms. Even in crashes my feet always remember to unclip. 

If you use flat pedals, I would strongly recommend wearing some type of shin pad.


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## surftime (Nov 15, 2010)

Thanks for the replies so far - I am doing pure XC - good climbs and downhills but no big drops or technical rock gardens or anything like that. So I know for this i should go clip-less but i really dont want to jack up a knee or something on a fall because I like to surf as well and MTB for me is mainly about fun and fitness. I take the kids out as well.

Maybe i am over-thinking the problem?


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

It is just another choice. If you want flat pedals, go with flat pedals.

Those 5.10 shoes are supposed to be good. Whatever you use, try to find stiff soles.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Five years riding clipless. Lots of crashes. Zero injuries due to being clipped in. 

I think you are needlessly blowing this up in your mind. Think about it...you will have twisted your foot far enough to unclip before you twist your leg far enough to damage your knee.


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## smitham (Nov 9, 2010)

The 5 10's are great!


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## Ouzo4Twozo (Aug 27, 2010)

There are some good platform options, but I'm with gmcttr on this. I've got a set of eggbeaters and can get unclipped pretty easily when the pucker factor is a 4. When it cranks up to 10 and instincts kick in, I get out without thinking about it. I rode SPDs before those and would highly suggest the eggbeaters for their ease of exit.

When you get right down to it though, it's all about what makes you comfortable.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

I started on flats, went to SPD then eggbeaters then back to a nice set of flats with Vans and will stay that way. For the riding I do they just work. I still put the eggbeaters on every once in a while but really just for road rides.

My Vans have divots in them from the pins, that's a good sign.


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## Itchiee (Sep 17, 2010)

I refuse to go clipped so I currently use Wellgo MG1 pedals.

They are fairly light for platforms and pretty rugged. Used in conjunction with a pair of Timberland hiking shoes they really grip to there is no issue of any foot slip.

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/drivetrain/pedal/wellgo/mg-1-mag-pedal/PRD_428677_135crx.aspx

Just throwing out ideas....


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

It's an aged old discussion thanks to the growing popularity of Flats we are seeing more and more products that make riding easier, Five ten is definitely on the top of the list.

It's best for new riders to try Clipless, you'd know what's it like. Clipless is not a requirement to ride better. I've been riding SPD since '01 and have tried just about every clipless pedal designs, now I'm riding Flats. I find I have no loss of power and able to be smoother than I was on CL, of course when I'm back on CL now I'm more efficient than ever before.

The best is to try them both, as they complement each other well to give you a great pedaling stroke.


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

if you fall with clips you generally pop out. just something to keep in mind.


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## roxnroots (Aug 12, 2010)

Ran cheap flats, then went eggbeaters for a while, then went back to platforms but this time went with Straitlines and love 'em - low profile, pretty light, good pins. :thumbsup: 

As others have rightly said - pedal choice is strictly a personal preference - of all the things that some guys subconsciously judge other riders by this seems to be one of the most silly. But I will say this:

1.) Those fears of dramatic yardsaling OTB faceplant-style crashes due to not clipping out in time are greatly overblown - you do generally click out when you need to.

2.) Massive cheesegrating of shins by good platforms with decent shoes isn't that common either.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

roxnroots said:


> Ran cheap flats, then went eggbeaters for a while, then went back to platforms but this time went with Straitlines and love 'em - low profile, pretty light, good pins. :thumbsup:
> 
> As others have rightly said - pedal choice is strictly a personal preference - of all the things that some guys subconsciously judge other riders by this seems to be one of the most silly. But I will say this:
> 
> ...


Spot on comment :thumbsup:

Crashes due to clipless is usually slow speed, it happens but not as often as one would think. Clipless can give you just bruises on your shin just as ugly but less the raspberry jam


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## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)

powergrips


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

mitzikatzi said:


> powergrips


lol


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

mimi1885 said:


> Spot on comment :thumbsup:
> 
> Crashes due to clipless is usually slow speed, it happens but not as often as one would think. Clipless can give you just bruises on your shin just as ugly but less the raspberry jam


i find i rarely hit my shins with my clips but when i hike-a-bike they hit me in the calf and lower leg. that hurts!


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## Tony777 (Jul 19, 2010)

jbrow1 said:


> Get a decent pair of flat pedals, with the stainless steel (replaceable) screws that stick up. The flats I got work excellent and do not slip, they were $21 at the LBS.


What brand/model are these?


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## FrostyStruthers (Jul 10, 2010)

surftime said:


> ........................ Should I not be worried about that?....................


That part.


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## dust3313 (Sep 15, 2010)

I think you should just go clipless. You can't pull up and pedal true circles with a platform pedal no matter how sticky your shoe pedal combo. I disagree with the guys that say you can be as or almost as efficient riding flats as you could be with clipless. I rode platforms for a while before i went clipless and actually had worse crashes while i was riding platforms.

Oh and over the bars isn't a big deal if you know how to crash, tuck and roll, I doesn't matter if you are still attached to the bike or not, If you take your hands off the bars and attempt to break your fall you are going to faceplant no matter what pedals or shoes you have on your feet.


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

Coming from the same concern, the inability to unclip in a crash is completely exaggerated. IMO a platform rider will fall/dab far more often than someone on clipless... I did at least. If one foot comes off on a bumpy, rooty uphill, for example, on platforms unless your opposite foot is in exactly the right position to provide power, your momentum is dead. Your foot is unlikely to come off in bumpy stuff in the first place on clipless, and the ability to pedal with one foot -- pulling, pushing -- allows you to plow through stuff and keep your balance in ways it isn't possible with platforms. 

In a proper spill, the "angle" of the crash will force your shoes out. Shimano SPDs have adjustable tension, and the lowest setting is almost too loose. I had to tighten mine up b/c they came off on many logovers and and pretty much every pedal strike. 

Since you're already familiar with clipless in general, my unsolicited advice is to not worry about the fear of not unclipping in a crash. You'll run into far more slow-speed/uphill/technical situations where clipless will keep in control and on the bike.


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## Mike Gager (Jul 30, 2010)

heres the alterations i did to my flat pedals










feet kept slipping off the pedals before which tore the heck out of my calves. no problems since adding the screws


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## osujoe (Aug 4, 2010)

"heres the alterations i did to my flat pedals"

man, that looks like it would do some serious damage (stitches damage) in a crash or in the case that your foot did slip off. I've ridden good flats with 5.10s and there were several times where a pedal strike threw my foot off. 

just my 2c


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## GotoDengo (Aug 6, 2010)

LOL. Yeah I'd worry a lot more about those tetanus-delivery-devices than I would clipless. 

Any chance you run a bash guard, just for the irony?


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## Mike Gager (Jul 30, 2010)

well it was an experient but it has worked for me. i would leave the trail with blood running down my leg everytime before i added them *shrug*


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## Jplaz (Oct 16, 2010)

At least file the tips down a little D:


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

dust3313 said:


> I think you should just go clipless. You can't pull up and pedal true circles with a platform pedal no matter how sticky your shoe pedal combo. I disagree with the guys that say you can be as or almost as efficient riding flats as you could be with clipless. I rode platforms for a while before i went clipless and actually had worse crashes while i was riding platforms.
> 
> Oh and over the bars isn't a big deal if you know how to crash, tuck and roll, I doesn't matter if you are still attached to the bike or not, If you take your hands off the bars and attempt to break your fall you are going to faceplant no matter what pedals or shoes you have on your feet.


Next you'd say that you can pull on the pedal to bunny hop

How can pulling on the pedal be more efficient:skep: How do you pedal in circle and what's the benefit. You know the down stroke muscles overwhelmed by the up stroke right? best you can do is just simply unweighted the upstroke and relax the muscles get it ready for the next down strokes.

The in you face benefits of clipless is that the pedals control your feet, so you can focus on generating more powerful down stroke. Pedaling power is about down stroke.:thumbsup: That's why I suggested the OP to try CL, so he worries less about pedaling power. Do what you feel most comfortable.

Pedaling is a skill just like everything else, you need to learn it properly. Nothing worse than sloppy pedaling, it ruins your chance of cleaning climbs, smooth or technical. If you have good pedaling stroke clipless or flat it doesn't matter. Brian Lopes put 2 runs at Rays one with clipless and another with flats, his time was only a fraction of a second different. If clipless is more superior than flats, the time would be more significant no:thumbsup:


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## FrostyStruthers (Jul 10, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> Next you'd say that you can pull on the pedal to bunny hop


Didn't you know that clipless makes you better at bunnyhopping and bike handling?


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

dust3313 said:


> You can't pull up and pedal true circles with a platform pedal no matter how sticky your shoe pedal combo.


Pulling up can be bad for the knees. I sometimes do it but it is just a few strokes to singlespeed up some steeper spot.

You can get pretty close to pedaling smooth circles with flat pedals too, as long as you are in an efficient gear.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

FrostyStruthers said:


> Didn't you know that clipless makes you better at bunnyhopping and bike handling?


Didn't get that memo


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

perttime said:


> Pulling up can be bad for the knees. I sometimes do it but it is just a few strokes to singlespeed up some steeper spot.
> 
> You can get pretty close to pedaling smooth circles with flat pedals too, as long as you are in an efficient gear.


SS is best with flats since on the descend is too fast for pedaling anyways. That said, on steep climb, slow speed grunting, clipless comes in really handy:thumbsup:


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## Moozh (Jan 20, 2010)

I've gone to all flats except for my SS 29er as I dont ride that on overly technical terrain.

I have had an instance or two where if I were using clipless pedals I would be at best a mangled mess and at worse in a coma (trying not to over dramatize and say "dead"..but..comas pretty bad no?)

I've run clipless long enough to KNOW that there aint no way I woulda clipped out on this one..no way...no how... I was able to "toughtlessly" get my foot down pronto and saved my @$$. Those jagged rocks and boulders down yonder would have been instrumental in tearing my life down about my ears on those particular occasions..

Some talk about crashing like it's no biggie, and I dont know about you but I have a mortgage to pay and work to go to in the AM so I veer on the side of caution. I''m simply not so devoted to the world of MTBking that I need to be pure to any degree. It's all about fun and fitness for me, nothing else.

I'm sure there are many superstars here that are king of the clipless and can clip in and out faster than a speeding bullet, well presumably so can I but I also have to admit that I have had a few "terror" moments where something happened so suddenly that I wasnt able to get out and went down. Well one day I banged my already compromised knee well enough to say to myself "screw it"..get platforms. I did just so and every now and then my feet do slip on really steep climbs but it's an occasional price I'm willing to pay.

I have five-ten shoes and Truvativ Holzfeller/azonic pookies/CrBros 50-50 pedals on my bikes. For me all very good pedals. I'm not much of a weight weenie to be honest. 

Like I said, I have crank-bros eggbeaters on my Jabberwocky and I'm content enough with that but the AM bikes that I tend to take on the more technical rides and the easy going laid-back lazy riding bikes get the plats!

One of the other truths about my circumstance is that I mostly ride alone so I cant readily bank on someone being on hand to help me limp/stagger my twisted limbs back to civilization.


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

I recently moved to clipless. I have gone down a few times while clipped in and I honestly think that the injury (minor scrape) was minimized by being clipped in. I am pretty sure that had I tried to bail, I would have been hurt more.

Now that said, I have only gone down once at speed while clipped in. the rest have been low speed/stopped topples.

I can say this...the learning curve isn't painful and the benefits far outweigh the negative aspects of being clipped in.


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## jbrow1 (Oct 15, 2010)

skrap1r0n said:


> I can say this...the learning curve isn't painful and the benefits far outweigh the negative aspects of being clipped in.


You can only say that in reference to your experiance.. 
My first time in the woods with clipless I was very lucky I didn't break my arm. And that fall did hurt. And this was after many miles of being clipped in on my roadbike, so I wasn't new to clipless. It was my stupidity though, no fault of the pedals. But wouldn't have happened if I was on my flats. Anytime I go down now I mentally make myself keep my arms in. Rather bruise my shoulder/hip areas than snap my wrist/elbow or get a shoulder injury.
They both have benefits and some drawbacks. It's a simple matter of user preferance.


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## FNFAL (Feb 5, 2009)

*If platforms were better...*

Every XC racer would be using them.


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

jbrow1 said:


> You can only say that in reference to your experiance..
> My first time in the woods with clipless I was very lucky I didn't break my arm. And that fall did hurt. And this was after many miles of being clipped in on my roadbike, so I wasn't new to clipless. It was my stupidity though, no fault of the pedals. But wouldn't have happened if I was on my flats. Anytime I go down now I mentally make myself keep my arms in. Rather bruise my shoulder/hip areas than snap my wrist/elbow or get a shoulder injury.
> They both have benefits and some drawbacks. It's a simple matter of user preferance.


Fair statement. I know for me it works well and I prefer it. I can see how there would be some transitioning issues from road to trail while being clipped in. I do find some obstacles more challenging clipped in as it makes it harder to dab.


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## Eddie Mudster (Mar 13, 2004)

I rode with Shimano multi-release cleats for over 10 years and never had a problem releasing in a crash. With the wrong technique they're easier to accidently pop out of while bunny hopping or jumping though. I've been using the single-release cleats for about four years and had some nasty endos that I didn't release from. Having your frames top tube flop over and smack you in the femur (thigh bone) hurts like hell. Right now I'm debating whether to go back to multi-release cleats or platform pedals for everything other than dirt road rides.

Brain Fart: Here's an alternative, how about a pedal/shoe system that has the traction pins built into the shoes and the pedals are covered with shin friendly soft rubber.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

*If clipless pedals were superior for EVERYTHING*,

Danny MacAskill would use them too.

http://www.dannymacaskill.co.uk/videos/


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Eddie Mudster said:


> .
> 
> Brain Fart: Here's an alternative, how about a pedal/shoe system that has the traction pins built into the shoes and the pedals are covered with shin friendly soft rubber.


Interesting, but I can see that the pedal would be minimum 1 lb a piece, plus the shoes would be deadly to walk around:eekster: And the pedal would not last as long. Good thinking though.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

And you could just wear golf shoes  Or crampons.
But seriously, say a solid poly bodied pedal with a flat smooth surface, to which you could glue 510 replacement sole material to would fill the bill. 

Couldn't be any dumber an idea than someone( who will remain anonymous  ) entering their second XC race ever, with pale red trails included, 6-10 hours into the clippless learning curve ... LOL


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

Noclutch said:


> And you could just wear golf shoes  Or crampons.


Plus they'd double as mountain lion or rabid squirrel deterrent.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Noclutch said:


> And you could just wear golf shoes  LOL


Unfortunately most if not all golf shoes are soft spikes now, no metal spike anymore


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## Cassafrass (Oct 17, 2010)

jbrow1 said:


> You can only say that in reference to your experiance..
> My first time in the woods with clipless I was very lucky I didn't break my arm. And that fall did hurt. And this was after many miles of being clipped in on my roadbike, so I wasn't new to clipless. It was my stupidity though, no fault of the pedals. But wouldn't have happened if I was on my flats. Anytime I go down now I mentally make myself keep my arms in. Rather bruise my shoulder/hip areas than snap my wrist/elbow or get a shoulder injury.
> They both have benefits and some drawbacks. It's a simple matter of user preferance.


Skrap and I went clipless at the same time... Mine lasted for a week before I was back to platforms. He did a LOT of biking when he was younger, so he's remembering skills, where I'm learning how to navigate obstacles and not seriously injure myself in the process. Clips right now aren't a good idea for me. Hell, I almost bit it this weekend on platforms, and I'm pretty sure my weight shifts over that root section would've caused me to make fast friends with a tree had I been clipped in.

That said... I did like being clipped in, and would like to give it another whirl, but I need skills solidly under my belt first, IMO.

YMMV.


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## surftime (Nov 15, 2010)

Cassafrass said:


> Skrap and I went clipless at the same time... Mine lasted for a week before I was back to platforms. He did a LOT of biking when he was younger, so he's remembering skills, where I'm learning how to navigate obstacles and not seriously injure myself in the process. Clips right now aren't a good idea for me. Hell, I almost bit it this weekend on platforms, and I'm pretty sure my weight shifts over that root section would've caused me to make fast friends with a tree had I been clipped in.
> 
> That said... I did like being clipped in, and would like to give it another whirl, but I need skills solidly under my belt first, IMO.
> 
> YMMV.


Thanks Everyone - i think the above sums up my current decision and I am going to get some of those 5 ten shoes. Its only like $90

Maybe I will get a clipless system in the near future but for now ill see how these shoes stick

Thanks everyone!


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

surftime said:


> Thanks Everyone - i think the above sums up my current decision and I am going to get some of those 5 ten shoes. Its only like $90
> 
> Maybe I will get a clipless system in the near future but for now ill see how these shoes stick
> 
> Thanks everyone!


Surftime, you are in Socal, why not go and visit FiveTen, they are in SB county I think. Their outlet hours is on Friday, Call them, I'm sure you can find some good sales there. Just browse the website and see what's all the cycling models, you'd never know.

Huck'N'Roll just had a good sales on FiveTen last week, but the deal is gone now. Keep checking. What size shoes do you wear? Send me a PM if you want to give either Clipless or fiveten a try. For clipless I have both Crank brothers, and SPD you can check it out before you make the decision.:thumbsup:


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## Mike Gager (Jul 30, 2010)

are 510s better then regular vans skate shoes?


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Mike Gager said:


> are 510s better then regular vans skate shoes?


Yeap:thumbsup:


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## dust3313 (Sep 15, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> Next you'd say that you can pull on the pedal to bunny hop
> 
> How can pulling on the pedal be more efficient:skep: How do you pedal in circle and what's the benefit. You know the down stroke muscles overwhelmed by the up stroke right? best you can do is just simply unweighted the upstroke and relax the muscles get it ready for the next down strokes.
> 
> ...


I bet the difference would be a lot more if it were more than just a few laps around a warehouse. clipless pedals allow you to engage more of the muscle groups in your legs which lets you ride longer, further, and faster. Plus Brian Lopes is a DH rider. If it were a XC pro I think the difference would be huge.

Yes, in a sprint the predominate muscle group is the quads but when you are climbing you need more than just one muscle group if you want to make it up the climb and still have some gas left.

If flats were any where near as efficient as clipless don't you think at least one pro somewhere would ride platforms, I would even challenge you to find a CAT 1 rider that ran platforms?

I am not saying platforms suck and everyone should go out and buy clipless. I am just stating the fact that platforms are not as efficient as clipless. It is up to the OP to decide what pedal system has more pros and less cons for him.


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## CuzinMike (Jul 6, 2010)

dust3313 said:


> stuff


I agree with you. But, some folks choose to ride without suspension, some choose to ride without gears and some choose to ride heavy bikes with loads of suspension on tame singletrack, all in an effort to increase their version of mountain bike bliss.

These setups, like platform pedals, may not be the most efficient means, but if you're having more fun using them, it makes a lot of sense for the 95% of riders who will never enter a race.


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> Next you'd say that you can pull on the pedal to bunny hop


This is one area where being clipped in has kinda reduced my ability. I actually find bunny hopping harder clipped in. I can't really explain it but I'm really not used to feeling the pull on my feet. I may not have the dynamic of a clipped in bunny hop down yet, but I can definitely say, I'm not as confident hopping over stuff that I wouldn't think twice about in flats.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

skrap1r0n said:


> This is one area where being clipped in has kinda reduced my ability. I actually find bunny hopping harder clipped in. I can't really explain it but I'm really not used to feeling the pull on my feet. I may not have the dynamic of a clipped in bunny hop down yet, but I can definitely say, I'm not as confident hopping over stuff that I wouldn't think twice about in flats.


There's a reason why, you can push harder on the flats and it does not allow you to cheat, that means if you are doing it wrong it would not happen. It force you to do it right, it's less forgiving than Clipless.

Here's the answer I took for the Kung Fu Master himself, Lee McCormack.

_Hopping and jumping

Clips let you cheat by pulling up. Not only does this limit your lift, it makes you suseptable to getting bucked. With flats you must generate upforce by first pushing down - and that's the right way to do it. Also, in the air, flats force you to be lithe and let the bike flow its own path. Also good.

Overall smoothness

The key to staying on flat pedals is maintaining constant pressure on the pedals - and avoiding harsh hits. You basically have to keep your feet moving with your bike. This forces you to actively absorb round bumps and preload/unweight over square obstacles. If you're doing these things, you will be riding smoothly._


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

dust3313 said:


> I bet the difference would be a lot more if it were more than just a few laps around a warehouse. clipless pedals allow you to engage more of the muscle groups in your legs which lets you ride longer, further, and faster. Plus Brian Lopes is a DH rider. If it were a XC pro I think the difference would be huge.
> 
> Yes, in a sprint the predominate muscle group is the quads but when you are climbing you need more than just one muscle group if you want to make it up the climb and still have some gas left.
> 
> ...


I suggested to OP to get the CL since he's new so riding would be easier, when he wants to improve his pedaling skills, and other skills as well, then he can switch to flats later, did you not read my first post? If you think that riding the clipless is harder than Flats, you are wrong again.

This is mountain bike not street riding. What's so hard about training your muscle memory to engage and disengage from the clips in pedal. It only takes a few weeks to get used to it. You can do it, I can do it how hard can it be, and I'm usually slow:thumbsup: You made it sound like it's the highlight of your biking experience.

Engage more muscle group, yes, but it's not what you think of how the power is generated and conserved. You can ride just as long, far and fast on the flats with sticky shoes by simply unweighted the upstroke. If you are so focus on the upstroke then you'd loose overall power and speed.

Racing is about time not form, that's why XC pros are using Clipless, on some steep climb if they must pull on the pedal instead of changing gears to crest the climb, CL does come in handy, whatever it takes to get the shortest time on the course. I'm not a pro I race XC with both flat and clipless. There's no difference on how much the same course kick my a$$, but I do have more fun on the flats:thumbsup: though with flats, I do get approach by Noobs telling me that CL is so much more superior than Flats, and watch them walk the first tech section on a smooth(ish) XC course:madman: I don't race for podium, I race to get my fix.

Dirt jump is about form, and execution have you seen one with Clipless, HMMM?

I'll take it slower, learn and practice hard on your flats, rip it on the clipless.:thumbsup:

As for OP deciding for himself, I agree. I even offered him to try out my clipless, and flats, if he wears same size shoes, he can also try my FiveTen as well if he does not mind(though sock's required):thumbsup:


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## FrostyStruthers (Jul 10, 2010)

Too much micro-managing. Ride clipless. You want the next and closest thing? Ride flats.

Simple stuff.


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## Ulairi (Jan 13, 2010)

*More fuel to the fire ...*

Here's some thoughts about why people should, at least, start out with flats (listen to the podcast):

http://www.bikejames.com/q-a/flats-vs-clipless-pedals/

Then further discussion here:

http://www.bikejames.com/strength/flats-vs-clipless-please-prove-me-wrong-why-i-wont-let-it-go/

I'm new to the sport and decided to not go down the clipless path. My new bike came with clipless (Crank Bros Mallets) but I switched them out for decent platforms.

I've just bought myself Five Ten Karvers. I highly recommend 5-10s. They made the single biggest improvement in my best time around my local single-track trail. More improvement than my new bike made, more improvement than a better rear tire. And it wasn't me getting fitter or more capable. The difference between one ride and the next was 1½ minutes better over a 28 minute circuit - simply from putting on a pair of shoes!

Five Tens are amazing.:thumbsup:

At the end of the day it's your bike, your body, your risk, your fun and, therefore, your choice.


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## sofarider1 (Feb 8, 2009)

I've been on platforms for 10 years. Just switched to clipless for the winter. There is NO DOUBT that pedaling is more efficient clipped in. I do climb better and have more gas in the tank overall. That being said. I am still not super comfy on descents yet.


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## Noclutch (Jun 20, 2010)

The problem for me still is trying to develop/find the_ reflex to unclip on a split seconds notice_ ie when your just about to go down. It is hit or miss at this juncture. I can ride smooth and feeling connected and all that stuff on XC green and blue trails all day long without incident and _planning_ when to unclip, but throw in some technical stuff that 95% of the time I usually clean on flats and it starts to get ugly, quickly. In my case, it seems that my technical ability has taken a few steps back since being clipped in ( again only 6-8hrs trail time on CL) on the rare difficult obstacle, but overall control is better and efficiency may be being realized?

So the question is, is it best to be the _master of flats_ prior to CL, or to get into CL early on in ones MTB learning curve before later switching back to flats for refining their technique, or somewhere in between?

edit- just did and hour in spds/multi releases vs candies, and I like the ability to "wiggle" out of them easier. But I also did have any true panic-eject situations either. So I'll probably loosen them a click or two more for the next session.


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## jbrow1 (Oct 15, 2010)

My problem with the clipless was they made me a bit anxious, then I would slow down for stuff, then I wouldn't have the needed momentum to make it easy on myself. I put the flats back on, started hitting everything fast, (I pretty much only ride one place) figured out it was much better to carry speed than try and finesse over the things that scared me. Put the clipless back on, and forced myself to not slow down again. That's what worked for me. When I fall, it is generally while going very slow. So I always make sure to just keep my arms in and try to land on my shoulder/hip. Slow falls don't usually hurt at all anyhow as long as theirs no sharp stuff around :thumbsup:


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## BetterRide (Apr 6, 2004)

I get this question all the time, here is my view:

http://betterride.net/blog/2010/clipped-in-vs-flat-pedals/


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## dust3313 (Sep 15, 2010)

mimi1885 said:


> I suggested to OP to get the CL since he's new so riding would be easier, when he wants to improve his pedaling skills, and other skills as well, then he can switch to flats later, did you not read my first post? If you think that riding the clipless is harder than Flats, you are wrong again.
> 
> Dirt jump is about form, and execution have you seen one with Clipless, HMMM?
> 
> :


OK, So we are agree completely . I think clipless is easier than riding flats. I hate riding platforms but I also spend half of my time on the road and the other on XC trail.

I don't get why you would bring DJ into the discussion though:skep: I think DJ riders stick with flats because it would be damn hard to unclip while flying through the air and impossible to clip back in while landing.


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## skrap1r0n (Oct 15, 2010)

Noclutch said:


> So the qiestion is, is it best to be the _master of flats_ prior to CL, or to get into CL early on in ones MTB learning curve before later switching back to flats for refining their technique, or somewhere in beteen?


What I have noticed is that areas that I can take on flats may give me trouble clipped in. Its harder to dab. My thinking is, that being able to make it through without getting a foot down means that my skill is improving. This may be erroneous thinking, but at least if gives me little goals.


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## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)

here


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

dust3313 said:


> OK, So we are agree completely . I think clipless is easier than riding flats. I hate riding platforms but I also spend half of my time on the road and the other on XC trail.
> 
> I don't get why you would bring DJ into the discussion though:skep: I think DJ riders stick with flats because it would be damn hard to unclip while flying through the air and impossible to clip back in while landing.


Alright then :thumbsup: As for the DJ example it's just to rebut the XC racing point. The point is we ride to have fun. Some do with flats some with CL. After almost 10 years I found that I doing things I want on a ride like manuals , hops , jumps because it takes practice and better to practice on flats than CL.

Then of course, another investment on pedals and shoes. It easier to bail on an 1' manual drop than CL as your body position gets too awkward to unclip. Once you are comfortable with the moves you can do it with CL, like I did with trackstand.


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## Itchiee (Sep 17, 2010)

I can totally understand the desire to use clipped (better term) on a road bike and whatnot since the terrain doesn't vary much and it has advantages. Cutting thru the forest, climbing narrow hills, avoiding obstacles and hitting sand traps (where I live) trying to look the part doesn't work for some people. I've been clipped once and wont do it ever again!!! (pause). 

And I still recommend the Wellgo flats since this thread changed to "what's your experience" in clipped pedals from "what's an alternative to"....


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

BetterRide said:


> I get this question all the time, here is my view:
> 
> http://betterride.net/blog/2010/clipped-in-vs-flat-pedals/


+1. I read your piece before I converted a few months ago. I found it to be dead on. I've been cheating


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Noclutch said:


> The problem for me still is trying to develop/find the_ reflex to unclip on a split seconds notice_ ie when your just about to go down. It is hit or miss at this juncture. I can ride smooth and feeling connected and all that stuff on XC green and blue trails all day long without incident and _planning_ when to unclip, but throw in some technical stuff that 95% of the time I usually clean on flats and it starts to get ugly, quickly. In my case, it seems that my technical ability has taken a few steps back since being clipped in ( again only 6-8hrs trail time on CL) on the rare difficult obstacle, but overall control is better and efficiency may be being realized?
> 
> So the question is, is it best to be the _master of flats_ prior to CL, or to get into CL early on in ones MTB learning curve before later switching back to flats for refining their technique, or somewhere in between?
> 
> edit- just did and hour in spds/multi releases vs candies, and I like the ability to "wiggle" out of them easier. But I also did have any true panic-eject situations either. So I'll probably loosen them a click or two more for the next session.


Best thing to do is to work on your balance, it's the foundation of riding. Slow speed is best way to practice, work on Track stand, tight circle turning, it may be meaning less and frustrated at first, keep at it. Practice every chance you get on the trail, while waiting for your buddy fixing flats, or nature calls. Before you know it you'd be doing it while riding.:thumbsup:

Once you are comfortable with trackstand on the flats then move on to CL(soft grass is highly recommended) it only take a few closed calls to realize that you can get out of the clips with no problems, then on the trail you would not feel anxious. You gotta face the demons sometimes, might as well do it in a control situations:thumbsup:

Ok this is what get interesting, it does not matter how long you have been riding, if you don't practice the essential skills you'd be stuck there at the same set of skills. After 8 yrs of riding I took the inventory of my skills and went to work on it. That's why not til recently I added flat pedal to my list. In a few short months I found myself doing more and more things I practiced on the trail, even when I switch to CL I continue to incorporate my newly acquired skills. I improved 3x more in one year than I have the last 8.

So Noclutch it's best to switch it every now and then but your initial plan is right, get comfortable with CL, then start switching. You can then have the best of both world.


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## rmi (Jan 14, 2010)

I used to worry about unclipping.....And, I fell numerous times without unclipping!

The only clipless I have experience with are Speedplay Frogs. I bought them because I worried about my knees (and thus wanted "float"). These pedals may have been fine for road biking (I'll get to a story later), but not mountain biking IMHO. First, I found myself unclipping when I didn't want to. I know how to bunny hop with flats, but would sometimes unclip mid-bunny hop from my Frogs. Big suck! New cleats and pedal maintenance didn't solve the problem. Second, I didn't always unclip when I wanted to! Definitely have had a few trail and road rides where I fell because I could not get my foot off fast enough (and then proceeded to stay attached to the bike during and after the fall). One example is sliding on wet brick on my old college campus: I would have been able to save my ass if I could have just taken my foot off the pedal. Falling sucks and sucks even more when you twist your knees/body/etc because the bike is still attached!

You may be able to train yourself to unclip as naturally as taking your foot off a flat pedal. I seriously doubt that it is true, but am not interested in the learning curve otherwise. I have fallen too many times because of clipless. Bruised hips and twisted knees can really put a damper on a good ride. I even smashed an ipod in my pocket when falling (because of clipless)!

Also, I didn't really make this clear above: Even with the ton of float that Frogs provide, I was still getting knee pain and tweakiness from being locked in one position on the pedal. The ability to move my foot all over a flat pedal has changed all that.

About a year ago, I moved from northern FL to northern GA. Northern GA has WAY steeper and more technical terrain which I didn't feel comfortable navigating with clipless pedals (that I felt weren't performing properly anyway). I wanted to ride...not worry about whether my "pedal exiting" skills were on par with my riding skills. Switched to flats and it has made all the difference!!!!!! No more fear. No more knee/leg/back pain after biking. No more excuses.

So, fast forward to now: riding Wellgo MG-1 flat on both my bikes (Trance X trail bike and Trek 4900 fitness/city/errand bike). Couldn't be happier. I ride for fun, to get better, and for fitness. Not to race. My flats do everything I need them to.

I currently use cheap skate shoes but will upgrade to 5.10's when they wear out (based upon the COUNTLESS recommendation on MTBR and elsewhere).

Ryan



surftime said:


> New to MTB but have road biked in the past so I have worn clipless pedals. MY thing is that i dont want to accidentally stay clipped in if i crash or go down - so what is another decent alternative? How about some spiky pedals and those super tacky rubber shoes (forgot the name of the rubber)? I heard they are close?? For those who dont clip in - what do you do because on the climb my shoes occasionally slip off the pedals.
> 
> I could totally see that clipping in would help huge while climbing and mountain biking is a constant climb and downhill and where i am, not too many flat areas.
> 
> ...


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## surftime (Nov 15, 2010)

Yesterday I was riding a new fairly technical singletrack (for me). My foot was on the ground a lot as i tried to get around switchbacks and go up steep parts. I dont know what i would have done attached to the pedals so i think the 5-ten shoes are going to help a lot. going to get them right now so I will let you know. 

But i can totally see where being clipped in would help on climbs - especially up steep fireroads - i can see that - then again if i had a lighter bike I guess that would also help


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## rmi (Jan 14, 2010)

Pulling up on the pedals is nice on steep hills, but it is also nice being able to hop off the bike on steep hills quickly: I will often "attack" a steep section. If I lose traction or "stall," I can still jump off the bike. I have seen other riders go down with no momentum and no time to get their feet off the clipless. Maybe others can fully commit to an uphill in clipless, but bailing is a nice option for us mortals.

This is an interesting assertion (in an article written by the Rivdendale owner called the "Shoe Ruse") that I have posted in other threads. The article claims that what separates the TOP riders is not how much they pull on the upstroke, but how much they UNWEIGHT the foot/pedal on the upstroke:

http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse

Ryan



surftime said:


> Yesterday I was riding a new fairly technical singletrack (for me). My foot was on the ground a lot as i tried to get around switchbacks and go up steep parts. I dont know what i would have done attached to the pedals so i think the 5-ten shoes are going to help a lot. going to get them right now so I will let you know.
> 
> But i can totally see where being clipped in would help on climbs - especially up steep fireroads - i can see that - then again if i had a lighter bike I guess that would also help


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

On a steep loose technical climb it requires a smooth power delivery to keep the traction. There are a few climbs that I could never clear until I switch to Flats, now I can do on both.

If you have problems with unclipping the pedals stay away from high float pedals, they are not good for that. I settled for good ol SPD.

RMI, I second the terror of unclipping mid air


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## rmi (Jan 14, 2010)

I honestly think my knees would be toast if I were still riding clipless. I do know there are better riders than me, better pedals than I had, and some riders' bodies may be more resilient and able to stay "locked" in a certain position.

I MAY give clipless another shot. With my increasing interest in technical riding (and trials type stuff like wheelie drops, etc), I can't see it happening soon, though. Too much fun and pain free riding going on.

Ryan



mimi1885 said:


> On a steep loose technical climb it requires a smooth power delivery to keep the traction. There are a few climbs that I could never clear until I switch to Flats, now I can do on both.
> 
> If you have problems with unclipping the pedals stay away from high float pedals, they are not good for that. I settled for good ol SPD.
> 
> RMI, I second the terror of unclipping mid air


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## Sarguy (Sep 25, 2010)

If you ever decide you need both. I can't say enough good stuff about these. Especially the other day when I did a snow ride and wore my hiking boots instead of my bike shoes.


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## Iridethedirt (Jan 20, 2008)

Mike Gager said:


> heres the alterations i did to my flat pedals
> 
> 
> 
> ...




this sends shivers down my spine. as others said, stitches and ER trips is what i see when i look at this pedal... glad it works for you dude, but wow, I'll stick to my SPDs... 
I ride the PD-M545 clipless with a platform like cage around it, so i can at least get a little grip while unable to clip in. 
I ride SPD pedals to feel more secure on the bike, and to be able to pedal circles. yes, i can bunnyhop without them, no i dont believe they are some kind of requirement for everyone in all or even one, type of riding. 
I find they are helpful for keeping my feet connected through high speed rough sections of trail, no worried of getting bounced off my pedals... they are helpful while climbing, to "pedal circles" and keep from having the jerky pedal masher effect of surging power causing your tires to break loose while climbing... there are tons of books about mountain biking that cover this very topic.

clipless or not is a preference.

my suggestion for OP is try out a buddies SPDs in a parking lot, if you like them, get multi release cleats and you'll have no wories about being hung up in your pedals while crashing.


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## muddywings (Apr 28, 2004)

I think the biggest factors to the ultimate question in life of clipless vs flats is:
1: where do you ride
2: what do you ride

I don't believe that the OP stated either in the post

I started seriously mt biking in North Carolina where the trails were flowing, smooth with the occasionaly root or very small rock garden. I rode clipless and thought the guys running with flats were silly. (before I matured up a bit) Of course I was running an Intense 5.5 which likewise was total overkill for those types of trails. 

I then moved to Colorado where my 5.5 was just barely enough for my local trails. The trails had a huge range of people. From guys on XC race bikes, SS, to guys with full face/armor and flat pedals.

I stalled out on a tall round boulder/rock hat was in the middle of the trail that I should have cleared with enough speed. But instead fell down to the side, off the trail, my right hand couldn't slow my speed due to the height and I hit my ribs on the rocks. Crack, 3 broken ribs! Speed: 0 mph. 

Do I think clipless are more efficiant-yes probably. Do they make you faster? Depends on the trail! How much do you have to clip in/out, how rough is it? Are you going for speed, or are you going for fun? Looking to hit things, drop off of things, challenge your skills or your endurance?

I still have my clipless and there are places where I swap them out but for every situation there is a right setup.

And yes, 5.10s are the way to go!


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