# Surly Troll Bikepacking: 26+ or 27.5+?



## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

Hello mtbr world, this is my first post, I've been trolling the forum with a 650b surly troll.


This is my first mountain bike and I bought it to fill a lot of shoes. In it's current incarnation w/front suspension fork I have a decent all mountain bike, but what I'm really keen on is bikepacking with the rigid fork it came with.


I want a set of plus sized tires for bikepacking, but I don't know if 26+ or 27.5+ would be more suitable for the troll. I've seen that 27.5+ w/2.8-3'' tires will fit the troll, but I'm wondering if that'll make the handling fishy since the troll originally came with 26'' wheels. Seems that 27.5+ would be better for the Ogre (a 29er version of the troll).


Seems like the 26+ would be lighter more nimble, and in a pinch probably better for touring since it is still a 26'' rim. Your thoughts? Thanks!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I'd say you can use either size if it fits, but more important that worrying about what size to use is what tires are available and how do they meet your needs?

If 26+ is the better size, but the tires available suck it's not a win going that route.

I'm a 29+ fan, but I'd rather have a normal 29er tire I love than a 29+ tire that's mediocre simply to get plus sized rubber.

I'd rather have the taller tire myself as I value better roll through and BB clearance. Lots of folks are very happy with 29+ in a Pugsley which is a taller wheel than it usually runs.

Your bikepacking bike will be heavy anyways so it's not like you are slapping these wheels on a race bike. I don't think the minor differences in weight matter.

I went from light 29er rubber to 29+ and certainly wheel weight did not cause any issues bikepacking.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

Pretty sure your not gonna fit a B+ tire in the back of a Troll. From what I have seen 26+ barely fits, even won't on some sizes.

Geo wise I'd stick to 26s on a Troll, but I like a low, stable bike. Vik makes a good point on tires though. There are what, 3 options for 26+ tires? Not enough to build a bike around IMO. I love the Troll, but the dwindling 26" market is taking away some of the appeal.


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## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

big_papa_nuts said:


> Pretty sure your not gonna fit a B+ tire in the back of a Troll. From what I have seen 26+ barely fits, even won't on some sizes.
> 
> Geo wise I'd stick to 26s on a Troll, but I like a low, stable bike. Vik makes a good point on tires though. There are what, 3 options for 26+ tires? Not enough to build a bike around IMO. I love the Troll, but the dwindling 26" market is taking away some of the appeal.


Thanks for the input. Yeah I keep flip flopping on the idea. 26+ seems like the better fit, but tire options seem low, however browsing some blogs I saw some people use 2.8-3 DH tires, but much heavier.

My troll is a L, if the rear tire is ~2.8, a 27.5+ should fit if all the way back in the dropouts. So it would definitely be a bit taller and predictable handling, better for long stretches, but 26+ wins in the slow crawling


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

audios89 said:


> Thanks for the input. Yeah I keep flip flopping on the idea.


If you have access to 26er and 27.5 wheels than I'd just buy both + size tires and try them out. Not that expensive and you can sell the pair you decide you like less.


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## Pachycephalosaurus (Jul 14, 2015)

Hey mate, my first post too. Like you I'm running a Surly Troll that I'm setting up for bikepacking. I'm running it as 650b with Hope rims. I've set the rear wheel back in the dropout with Surly Monkey Nuts


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## Pachycephalosaurus (Jul 14, 2015)

Which has allowed room for 27.5x2.4 maxxis ardent but there's not much clearance around that. I'd be very interested to see the results if you are successful running a 2.8 tire in the rear. But I suspect you'll get chain rub in your granny gear if you're running a standard dérailleur setup


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## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

So I just put in the order for 26'' rabbit holes. After speaking with my wheel builder he said there wouldn't be enough clearance if things ever got muddy. I'm confident in his word, and was pretty much on board with the 26+ to begin with if it wasn't for the tire options - I really like the increased maneuverability and strength of the smaller wheel size.

As far as the derailleur goes I need to change to a 2x chainring setup, the 2.2 tire I have in the rear now almost rubs the 3x front mech when I'm in the granny gear. I'm planning on a 22x36 front and 12-36 rear in 9 speed, that should provide plenty of crawling strength


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## Pachycephalosaurus (Jul 14, 2015)

Nice, I reckon you're on the money with 26+. I'd love to see some pics once you're all set up!


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## rusheleven (Jan 19, 2012)

I see that you already ordered 26 wheels but in case the option ever arises to make a comparison to the 27.5+ . . .

I really like my WTB 2.8's on 27mm rims

Waiting on me. by pavementgraveldirt, on Flickr


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## 2:01 (May 10, 2010)

rusheleven, how much clearance with that set up? What's the width of the WTB's on the 27mm rims?


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## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

Finally got the setup made. 26x3 Knards on RHs. The rear was a challenge to fit, the more I moved the wheel back in the dropouts, the more the chain would jam in the rear derailleur. Of course I needed to move the wheel back as far back as possible to clear the frame though. I did eventually get it to fit, albeit by shaving down some of the rear mech (Shimano m662 9 speed) material.

The 2x SRAM x9 crank has a 49.5 chainline which appears sufficient, but I've yet to ride it seriously yet. These pics were taken in the easiest gear (22-36)

My guess is that a 27.5+ (2.8) would fit in the front, and likely in the back if the rim was 35mm or less, and moved all the way back in the dropouts. I'm very happy this setup though!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

If the clearance is as minimal as it seems in those photos you won't be able to ride the bike without rubbing. Keep in mind new 3" tire will "grow" with some use so you actually have less clearance than it seems when testing fitting new tires.


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## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

vikb said:


> If the clearance is as minimal as it seems in those photos you won't be able to ride the bike without rubbing. Keep in mind new 3" tire will "grow" with some use so you actually have less clearance than it seems when testing fitting new tires.


Damn, that's not promising. I just can't move the wheel back any further or else it jams the rear derailleur. Is there some sort of hangar that would alleviate this, or possibly even a different rear mech with better clearance design?


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## rusheleven (Jan 19, 2012)

2:01 said:


> rusheleven, how much clearance with that set up? What's the width of the WTB's on the 27mm rims?


They measure out at about 2.5.
I usually run them at 12psi tubeless.


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## stremf (Dec 7, 2012)

I know a bit too late, but I would have built it up with Stans Flow EX rims. Although they're just under 30mm width, they have worked fine for me on a 29+ set up. Tubeless was a snap, as well (no pun). That would have given you a bit more room, I think. Blunt 35's would have also worked well, but I have had issues setting it up tubeless in the past. And they're soft.

But I've always wanted to try out a 26+ set up. I personally don't see the need for a 29+ for bikepacking, although that opinion may change after I try out a 26+ or 27.5+. Eager to hear how it rides.


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## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

So I switched the rear to 2.75 DW's and now no rub  They definitely don't roll as fast but I like the way they dig when crawling up inclines. Logic says to put the more aggressive tire up front, but for bikepacking I have more weight up there so the extra cush from the knards is great. Not like I'm going to be shredding out there.

On a side note for anyone with a Troll or any Surly bike with horizontal dropouts, the new Shimano rear mech designs do not play well together. Move the wheel more than halfway back and the chain will jam between the mech and cassette on certain shifts due to the mechs arms design (where cable attaches) Mine is a Shimano RD-M662 and I noticed this across XT and XTR as well. Maybe this was documented somewhere but it's a surprise to me. I had to shave off some material just so this wouldn't happen, and I still can't get it all the way in the rear of the dropouts (which would afford clearance for the knards). At some point I will probably change out to an SRAM X7/X9 as they do not have this design issue.


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

audios89 said:


> Finally got the setup made. 26x3 Knards on RHs. The rear was a challenge to fit, the more I moved the wheel back in the dropouts, the more the chain would jam in the rear derailleur. Of course I needed to move the wheel back as far back as possible to clear the frame though. I did eventually get it to fit, albeit by shaving down some of the rear mech (Shimano m662 9 speed) material.
> 
> The 2x SRAM x9 crank has a 49.5 chainline which appears sufficient, but I've yet to ride it seriously yet. These pics were taken in the easiest gear (22-36)
> 
> ...


Hola audios89,

CONGRATULATIONS, your steed looks awesome... I hope you've a GREAT time in the wild with it 

Saludos,
Federico
Their Only Portrait


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

TheirOnlyPortrait said:


> Hola audios89,
> 
> CONGRATULATIONS, your steed looks awesome... I hope you've a GREAT time in the wild with it
> 
> ...


Hola audios89,

Here is my Hayduke 27.5+ hardtail with WTB Scraper (45mm) rims & WTB Trailblazers 27.5x2.8 









Saludos,
Federico


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## audios89 (Jul 11, 2015)

Sweet rig Federico. The 26+ performed very well with weight and was surprisingly nimble. I just ordered a set of DT Swiss XM481 (30mm) rims. If I move the wheel all the way in the drop-outs I'm hoping to fit upto 2.8 tires on the rear, will report back to see if they fit


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