# Builder's ettiquette, is there such a thing?



## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

A couple friends and I have been building for many years in a local forest where there is a sort of a 'don't ask don't tell' situation with the local government. It seems as long as we build with deadfall and dirt and don't bring boards and such for ladders they tend to look the other way. The local DH/FR scene has heated up quite a bit in the last year or two and lots more riders have been hitting the lines we've built. The problem is that some have decided to 'adopt' some of the lines and have been changing/adding things (mostly poppy, janky little jumps that completely block the trail). The big pisser was a few weeks ago someone decided to start working on a line I was building, changing the run in and throwing dirt on a pile of logs I was working on (and not finished with). They had left their tools barely hidden, so I relocated them and put the word out to everyone I came into contact with that I would like to talk to the perps about what I was doing and why I didn't appreciate their "help". Long story shortened (a little), the kid got his tools back after calling me (actually he had his mom call me ). Fast forward to a week or so ago and I am told by a friend that the owner of the lbs that caters to the local grom dirt jump, FR/DH crowd is bad mouthing me in his shop to random people, telling them I picked a fight with a 14 y.o. and stole his tools. I went into his shop yesterday to ask him why he's talking shyte, and he got extremely defensive (actually came around the counter shoving his finger in my face) and told me he thought there was no such thing as builder's etiquette and he could go and tear out my jumps any time he wanted to. 
Thoughts?


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## GatorB (Jan 9, 2010)

Seems you need to get them working with you and not against you. If they are willing to do trail work they could become a asset.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

GatorB said:


> Seems you need to get them working with you and not against you. If they are willing to do trail work they could become a asset.


Tried that. A few weeks ago a friend that is building in another part of the forest put together a trail day, with a 3 week lead time to put the word out. A big group of the groms were riding the forest that morning, but none stayed to help.


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## HarryCallahan (Nov 2, 2004)

Just as an observer, it seems to me "builder's etiquette" as such, mostly amounts to local custom with a group of people all more or less on the same page. The fact that you mention that the crew you have trouble with is younger and not experienced with the area in the way you are, says they are not on the same page. Add in the junior high attitude factor, and it sounds like you've got a problem. Got any friends who work with kids that age? Maybe some insights could be found. Maybe you could share your experiences working with or under the land manager radar, if not with that one kid, with his parents.

Now, looking at this from the perspective of the land managers, I could see why they might turn a blind eye to what you had been doing. Law varies from state to state, and while I'm no expert, I know that there is often a difference between natural features and built objects in terms of liability and maintenance. Features that can be ridden around versus ones built into the trail are better in terms of a wider range of users and safety. There's also the aesthetics issue of trail side features that look like they belong versus something slapped together out of scrap lumber.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Shoot, I've had problems with the sort of things you describe even when I'm working with the land manager's blessing (and even with his help in some cases).

It can be hard enough to get people on the same page when you're doing authorized work. I wouldn't even know where to begin when things start out confrontational like in your case.


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## GatorB (Jan 9, 2010)

Maybe put up some real official looking signs that say "Trail work by authorized people only" then put your phone number as the contact info.


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

These kids like mountain biking, and unlike the large majority of trail users, they are willing to put actual effort into trail maintenance, so you have at least that much in common. 

Figure out a way to work with them, and they'll become an asset. Don't, and they will constantly be a thorn in your side, builder's etiquette or no.


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

Same story in 3 of our local parks.

The wee ones don't respect the rules, bring in boards and generally adapt things to their liking. We recently had a local freerider hit a line they've hit dozens of times (gap jump), only to find some group of punks and built a sender into a kicker. Torn ACL and she's now out for at least 6 months and maybe more. The freeride (guys that have been hitting 20' drops for 20 years) community is looking far and wide for the offenders and retribution is likely.

At other parks, they weak lines and dumb down rock gardens or braid to make trails "faster". Typically calling them out when you catch the works, if that doesn't, well, we're still trying to figure that out... we do work with the land managers and have a great relationship, so their behavior could be construed as vandalism if we really wanted to go down that path, but we're not there yet for that stuff.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

we have a couple of rock gardens we actually installed on our trails (again, officially sanctioned trail features), and I was told the other night on a ride that we've been having problems with some punk(s) kicking rocks out of our rock gardens. If that crap continues, I think we might have to cement the rocks in place.


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## anthony.delorenzo (Aug 17, 2006)

Yes, there is definitely etiquette and people should know and respect that. Where I live there is an official city trail crew and they don't even touch a trail (that they are the legal managers of) without talking to the people who built it. That is just how it works. 

That being said, not everyone knows or respects this. If you keep undoing people's 'work' eventually they will give up. But of course, you are wasting your own time doing that. 

My experience with groms is that they are willing to work on a little bit of a line or a few jumps, but they never seem to have the will or organization to tackle a whole trail. That's why they keep chipping at other people's work. 

Around here there is a ton of open terrain with a green light to built amazing freeride stuff, but inevitably it all gets built alongside multi-use trails with easy access, or maybe you get a 5' elevated structure alongside one of the most popular beginner XC trails. That stuff doesn't last long.


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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

I've run into similar problems. On an old mining road turned into singletrack, I spent several days building drains into the trail. The local downhillers who walk their bikes up the hill to ride down, plugged up, blocked off or otherwise destroyed the drains so that water continued to run down the trail. Didn't make any sense, so I talked to the local bike shop, and sure enough the owner knew who the culprits were. As loyal customers, he didn't want to criticize them, so he defended their actions by saying these guys just wanted the trail to be more challenging. Well after a wet winter the trail became badly eroded, thanks to the fine work by these guys. Undeterred, I went back and rebuilt the drains and cleaned up the trail to the point of being rideable uphill again. But I turned many of the waterbars into jumps, tapering the ramps for good launching, with a bypass around. Also alongside much of the rideable trail, remains an eroded rut that is plenty challenging if not impossible to ride in. So now I'm hoping that those guys see what uncontrolled erosion does to their trail and also see that I'm tying to work with them by giving them some jumps. 

In another area in the "don't ask, don't tell" category, is a trail that we have maintained for years, and always kept it simple and minimalist so as to not attract too much attention. Now the local freerider "kids" have discovered it and have started building jumps and new fall line trails to access them. Someone even built a wooden North Shore ramp. What disturbs me is after putting so much work into something, others come along and take it over, even destroying what I have done in order to make the trail the way they want it, usually sacrificing sustainability for "fun". Now the local land managers are talking about this trail and what to do about it, after many years of silence. I still think the best way to deal with the freeriders is to accommodate them in some way so they have less reason to build stuff. They are not the types who like to go and do any organized trail maintenance; they generally wait for someone else to do the bulk of the work and then they go in and modify things. So I tend to not mess with some of their work if it doesn't seem to be a big problem, and either destroy or modify the rest of it, and am always looking for features that I can incorporate into the trail that might appeal to the freeriders. Also, letting the freeriders know that we are on their side and love to ride as much as they do, but if if the trails become a free-for-all of "anything goes" the local land managers will close the trails and we will all lose.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

What pathetic losers we have become. Screwing someone's baby is like stealing their hat or horse! A hangin' high offence. 

Back to normal transmission: whoda, you have the kid's, mother's number. Your best chance is to get him and his mates onside and build together. Painful to have dissident, insurgent input, but kids go off when building jumps. 

What you need, like all of us, is the perfect trail. Perfect speed at every point for every feature. Make the little punks work on the jumps and you lay the design and sort the drainage, flow, sustainability etc. Remember, the kids are going to grow, want bigger and better things and thrills, so as bpressnall says, the trail has to be exciting, incorporate B and lesser lines, be loved by everyone and last.

If all that fails, you've got the kid's Mum's number:winker::yesnod::arf:


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## ray.vermette (Jul 16, 2008)

I'd like to change my answer. You asked if there is such a thing as builder's etiquette, and the answer is yes, of course there is, but the answer is somewhat irrelevant in this case, because being in the right is not really going to help your situation.

You say you have a don't ask, don't tell situation with the landowner. This implies you don't have a stewardship agreement in place, and as such, I'm guessing you don't have any real authority to dictate what trail work is done or not done in there. You may feel you have the moral authority (and I would completely agree with you) because I assume you follow good trail building practices and you've been maintaining the trails for years and you have major dirt equity in the trails, but not everyone is going to be aware of your efforts and not everyone is going to agree with you on how the trails should evolve. 

You need to figure out a way to work together with these individuals, or you will continue to run into conflict with them, and that kind of conflict could lead to the trails getting shut down. As I wrote earlier, these kids obviously like biking and they want to put something back into the trails, so you have this much in common. Start from there. Actively engage them. Call them up and meet with them. Be persistent. Don't passively put the word out that you are having a trail day and then get all sour when they don't show.


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## cheezecake (Jul 16, 2011)

Im also building that type of log structure trails and there is someone else building their to. We have not met them yet but we have left a note to call us and to respect are trails to. they called and said they will not change anything we build or destroy something. maybe i got lucky and these are people with the "good building etiquette"


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

There definitely is a builder's etiquette and I think it is simply: Do not phuck with another man's trail. I don't care if it's authorized or not. At the very least, they should contact the builder to offer help or to suggest changes. You live on an island where the riding community is small and the building community is even smaller, so tracking down the person doing the work isn't rocket science. Anyone who says they don't know who does the work hasn't tried very hard.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You guys need to start a basic email listserve (using Yahoo or Google groups). Call it the Maui Trail building alliance or whatever you want. In it's simplest form, it'll help communication about these types of issues and help with education on these topics. Then, start getting riders/builders signed up as you meet them on the trails and put the word out to the shops.

In our neck of the woods, this stuff is 100% self-policed and there is very much an ethos about respecting someone's trail. Even if it's seemingly abandoned, folks contact the builder to see if they can re-open it or clean it up. Of course, our building community is super tight and we often help each other out on our respective projects. Also, many of the shop employees do some digging and are well aware of the building culture so they also spread the word.

Cheers,
EB


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

The bike shop owner obviously doesn't get it....nor does it sound like he's ever picked up a shovel.

As for folks altering lines, I put it as simply as this: When you've spent years/months of your life scouting, flagging, clearing and maintaining a trail, you can do whatever you want with it. However, when someone unilaterally decides to add features or "flow" to something because they don't like the trail, that has zero merit in my books. You don't like it? Then, either talk to the creator/builder of said trail or build your own.



bpressnall said:


> I've run into similar problems. On an old mining road turned into singletrack, I spent several days building drains into the trail. The local downhillers who walk their bikes up the hill to ride down, plugged up, blocked off or otherwise destroyed the drains so that water continued to run down the trail. Didn't make any sense, so I talked to the local bike shop, and sure enough the owner knew who the culprits were. As loyal customers, he didn't want to criticize them, so he defended their actions by saying these guys just wanted the trail to be more challenging. Well after a wet winter the trail became badly eroded, thanks to the fine work by these guys. Undeterred, I went back and rebuilt the drains and cleaned up the trail to the point of being rideable uphill again. But I turned many of the waterbars into jumps, tapering the ramps for good launching, with a bypass around. Also alongside much of the rideable trail, remains an eroded rut that is plenty challenging if not impossible to ride in. So now I'm hoping that those guys see what uncontrolled erosion does to their trail and also see that I'm tying to work with them by giving them some jumps.
> 
> In another area in the "don't ask, don't tell" category, is a trail that we have maintained for years, and always kept it simple and minimalist so as to not attract too much attention. Now the local freerider "kids" have discovered it and have started building jumps and new fall line trails to access them. Someone even built a wooden North Shore ramp. What disturbs me is after putting so much work into something, others come along and take it over, even destroying what I have done in order to make the trail the way they want it, usually sacrificing sustainability for "fun". Now the local land managers are talking about this trail and what to do about it, after many years of silence. I still think the best way to deal with the freeriders is to accommodate them in some way so they have less reason to build stuff. They are not the types who like to go and do any organized trail maintenance; they generally wait for someone else to do the bulk of the work and then they go in and modify things. So I tend to not mess with some of their work if it doesn't seem to be a big problem, and either destroy or modify the rest of it, and am always looking for features that I can incorporate into the trail that might appeal to the freeriders. Also, letting the freeriders know that we are on their side and love to ride as much as they do, but if if the trails become a free-for-all of "anything goes" the local land managers will close the trails and we will all lose.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Maybe something along these lines? (from Post Canyon, Hood River, Oregon)
(seriously, good luck with your work)


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

Great sign


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

I suspect that sign would get the message across OK:thumbsup:


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

bpressnall said:


> I've run into similar problems. On an old mining road turned into singletrack, I spent several days building drains into the trail. The local downhillers who walk their bikes up the hill to ride down, plugged up, blocked off or otherwise destroyed the drains so that water continued to run down the trail. Didn't make any sense, so I talked to the local bike shop, and sure enough the owner knew who the culprits were. As loyal customers, he didn't want to criticize them, so he defended their actions by saying these guys just wanted the trail to be more challenging. Well after a wet winter the trail became badly eroded, thanks to the fine work by these guys. Undeterred, I went back and rebuilt the drains and cleaned up the trail to the point of being rideable uphill again. But I turned many of the waterbars into jumps, tapering the ramps for good launching, with a bypass around. Also alongside much of the rideable trail, remains an eroded rut that is plenty challenging if not impossible to ride in. So now I'm hoping that those guys see what uncontrolled erosion does to their trail and also see that I'm tying to work with them by giving them some jumps.
> 
> In another area in the "don't ask, don't tell" category, is a trail that we have maintained for years, and always kept it simple and minimalist so as to not attract too much attention. Now the local freerider "kids" have discovered it and have started building jumps and new fall line trails to access them. Someone even built a wooden North Shore ramp. What disturbs me is after putting so much work into something, others come along and take it over, even destroying what I have done in order to make the trail the way they want it, usually sacrificing sustainability for "fun". Now the local land managers are talking about this trail and what to do about it, after many years of silence. I still think the best way to deal with the freeriders is to accommodate them in some way so they have less reason to build stuff. They are not the types who like to go and do any organized trail maintenance; they generally wait for someone else to do the bulk of the work and then they go in and modify things. So I tend to not mess with some of their work if it doesn't seem to be a big problem, and either destroy or modify the rest of it, and am always looking for features that I can incorporate into the trail that might appeal to the freeriders. Also, letting the freeriders know that we are on their side and love to ride as much as they do, but if if the trails become a free-for-all of "anything goes" the local land managers will close the trails and we will all lose.


I'd rip their **** down. Nothing a chainsaw won't take care of. Guys like this tend to have a very short attention span.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

Cross post from another forum: http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?219684-Townsville-All-Mountain-trail/page2

*Went up today and found out some moron had filled in the gap jump, even though there is a perfectly safe B line right there. The irony is that after that section there is the steep waterfall section, which has no B line. It is one way, so once you are there, you can't go back.
So it doesn't matter how dumb you make the gap jump, gumbies still have to get down the waterfall.

Took 30 seconds to return it to it's original design. I hope I don't catch the moron, cause I don't think I would like jail. *


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Ridnparadise said:


> Cross post from another forum:
> 
> Took 30 seconds to return it to it's original design. I hope I don't catch the moron, cause I don't think I would like jail.


It' amazing how many tough guys there are on the interwebz who will commit acts of violence over trails/stunts, especially illegal trails/stunts.

Either that or it's all jut a bunch of talk.


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

zrm said:


> It' amazing how many tough guys there are on the interwebz who will commit acts of violence over trails/stunts, especially illegal trails/stunts.
> 
> Either that or it's all jut a bunch of talk.


Not sure about that. The trail this concerns is government funded and in a purpose built mountainbike park, maintained by a group of enthusiastic locals who build great trail and are a not-for-profit group.

Are you a member of the brotherhood of digging mountainbikers zrm, or are you against:nono:


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## VT_SNGLTRK (Apr 2, 2004)

*A little off topic*

This is a little bit of a different subject, but somewhat related. Once a trail is established and features have been ridden, I find that people come along and "pad" the features to make entrances and exits easier. I get the idea of wanting to diversify your ride especially if you ride the same trails often, but if someone else is able to clean them without the added support, should they stay untouched? One area I ride, I continually find things that we've ridden for years altered. I feel jerky taking out the added rocks and what not, but on the other hand, they're not necessary. On the flip side, there are some things that I need some padding to get on, but hesitate to do it because there are probably riders doing it. With existing trails, what do you do?


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## zrm (Oct 11, 2006)

Ridnparadise said:


> Not sure about that. The trail this concerns is government funded and in a purpose built mountainbike park, maintained by a group of enthusiastic locals who build great trail and are a not-for-profit group.
> 
> Are you a member of the brotherhood of digging mountainbikers zrm, or are you against:nono:


Me? I've built miles and miles of legal trail that thousands use every year. Used to make a bit of a living at it as a matter of fact. This year I've volunteered six days to trail maintenance and new construction and that doesn't count a few evenings schlepping a chainsaw about in the wild wood cutting out blow down.

No, my comment was more an observation of how many people on the interwebz seem to threaten violence if the catch someone "sanitizing" or otherwise altering a trail. Lotta tough guys out there if one is to believe on line personas. Personally the only time I can think that violence _might_, and I say _might_, be justified is if someone deliberately sabotaged a trail in a way to injure another person but that's just me. Maybe others take their trails and obstacles/features more seriously than I do.


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## Dwreck (Jul 7, 2010)

With existing trails?....Leave them alone. If there is stuff you cannot clean but others can, work at learning the skills needed to clean it...do not dumb down a trail feature because you can't do it.

On the trails I am working on we make sure there are go-arounds for any obsticle. Also we are planning on a few beginner features as well, to help people gain the skills they need to hit some of the larger ones.



If you didn't build it...hands off.


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## birmy (Jan 14, 2005)

Dwreck said:


> On the trails I am working on we make sure there are go-arounds for any obsticle. Also we are planning on a few beginner features as well, to help people gain the skills they need to hit some of the larger ones.
> 
> If you didn't build it...hands off.


This is exactly the way to do it. If there are people that are high flyers building trails I am all for it and enjoy the hell out of your skills and trail building prowess. But remember if your building a trail that others will use (on public land) you must understand that some users may not want to and or have the skills to be a high flyer simply make a go around, this way your trail stays in tact and others can enjoy your hard work and dedication without sanitation. I appreciate all the work people do and understand the frustration but the builders must also understand not everyone is the same and look at the sport as you do. I would bet the ranch that the builders are much more hardcore riders then most of the MTB population.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

The real bummer here is that I've lost most of my desire to continue the line upwards, and just leave it to those that would make it into what they think it should be. Our 'easier' line is under attack weeky. The last "improvements" were "berms" cut into some corners that are now loose dirt pockets that will become holes when it all gets kicked out by riders. Still don't know who it is but they have no clue about the need to dig when wet or pack in water to aid compaction. 

EB, we've tried to get everyone together for work days but very few (we had 5 or 6 show up last time) are willing/able to donate time.


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

edit: removed ref to birmy, but still..

A) If its built officially with Land Manager approval, don't touch it, don't move a thing. Even if you're unable to hit it and there's no go around, if its legit, leave it and make a complaint/comment to the builders. Not your place, legally and otherwise, to adjust the trail. I hate when people find themselves over their heads on an advance trail (labeled as such) and instead of walk, they smooth out rock gardens (etc) on tough trails to their level.

B) A tough feature off to the side, i.e. a boulder up/roller, that's been there for years as is, some folks can't make the up but want to hit the feature, they add a ramp. Don't do it, not cool, its not in the line and if you can't hit it, try to as is, or use the main trail/official B line. People don't get there's no shame in leaving it for tomorrow.

Improve your skills, not the trails.

ZRM - no violence, but stern words. I see stuff get tweeked by newbs or riders new to the area all the time, go rounds, ramps, etc.  Spending so much time to get a trail dialed (legit), when you catch the fool doing it, if you explain and suggest an easier route calmly and politely, and if it happens again, I don't have much patience and will be stern and possibly invoke the LM and pursuing vandalism charges b/c they're messing with legit trail.

Some fools have no idea, nor do they care, how much relationship building, planning, and build time is involved in making great trails. So if they don't care to respect the efforts of the buildings and advocates, they can expect to get called out and spoken to as the punks they are.


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## Fyrblade (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm curious.. If you're on a trail you ride regularly, and encounter a fallen tree, is it considered OK to drag it off? I'm not talking about a bare log that someone might have put there, but a tree, complete with branches making it a full blown obstruction. I've removed a couple after a storm but there's always that nagging voice in the back on my head..


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Fyrblade said:


> I'm curious.. If you're on a trail you ride regularly, and encounter a fallen tree, is it considered OK to drag it off? I'm not talking about a bare log that someone might have put there, but a tree, complete with branches making it a full blown obstruction. I've removed a couple after a storm but there's always that nagging voice in the back on my head..


HA! Bring your chainsaw and dice it up for jumps!:thumbsup:


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## Fyrblade (Aug 6, 2011)

hahaha I'd love to... The temptation to take out a tree that I consider my nemesis might be too great to resist. You know the one. Where you're going into an uphill corner, must go wide, tree leans into your path, can't seem to make yourself get past it without catching a piece of it 8-P Or taking out some poorly placed roots! 8-P


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Gotta save those "fixes" for the really rainy, stormy days when no one in their right mind is out on the trails.

Really though, I restrict my chainsaw work to blow downs and dead fall. LOTS of that where we build/ride.


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## mattthemuppet (Jul 16, 2004)

I used to do a lot of maintenance (before kids, now I only ride in the evening/ at night) and there was one climb/DH that I put a lot of time into, digging trenches and drainage sinks, filling them with rock, then gravel. Unfortunately, some of the local kids thought that going round corners down hill was just too hard for them, so started straight lining the corners, which, being clay on rock, started getting cut up just as bad as the stuff I was trying to fix.

I spent ages trying to block off those lines, even to the point of sinking 2ft x 4ft tree trunks (and nearly getting squashed by them) into the entrances, but it didn't do any good. They'd just yank out the obstacles or find another line round them. In the end I gave up and moved on to another section rather than waste more time.

Sadly you're never going to stop idiots being idiots, especially young idiots, but spreading the work around, putting up official looking signs (might be hard with the "don't ask don't tell" nature of it) finding out who the parents are etc might help. The again, as soon as those idiots grow up and move on, there'll be more. Either make the trails hard to get to, hard to get onto or just put up with it, there's not much else you can do.


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Fyrblade said:


> I'm curious.. If you're on a trail you ride regularly, and encounter a fallen tree, is it considered OK to drag it off? I'm not talking about a bare log that someone might have put there, but a tree, complete with branches making it a full blown obstruction. I've removed a couple after a storm but there's always that nagging voice in the back on my head..


This is perfectly okay and IMO actually expected if you're first upon the issue and have the means to deal with it. I'm always amazed (in a bad way) how people go around something for 2 weeks that takes 30 seconds to fix. Drag it far enough off the trail so that it's not an eyesore, fall hazard, or impeding drainage on the low side of the trail.


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## Fyrblade (Aug 6, 2011)

Good.. Glad to hear I'm on the same page!


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## Ridnparadise (Dec 14, 2007)

zrm said:


> No, my comment was more an observation of how many people on the interwebz seem to threaten violence if the catch someone "sanitizing" or otherwise altering a trail. Lotta tough guys out there if one is to believe on line personas. Personally the only time I can think that violence _might_, and I say _might_, be justified is if someone deliberately sabotaged a trail in a way to injure another person but that's just me. Maybe others take their trails and obstacles/features more seriously than I do.


Sounds about right. Sorry I was off-track. However, these guys are in far north Queensland and the farther north you go the closer become words and actions. Also the trails are so obviously excellent, I see why he would be irritated.


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## twest820 (Mar 16, 2007)

Fattirewilly said:


> This is perfectly okay and IMO actually expected if you're first upon the issue and have the means to deal with it. I'm always amazed (in a bad way) how people go around something for 2 weeks that takes 30 seconds to fix. Drag it far enough off the trail so that it's not an eyesore, fall hazard, or impeding drainage on the low side of the trail.


And, if there's a trail steward, contact them to let them you know what you've moved, what corridor spec you moved it to, and ask for feedback. Two things which definitely suck are 1) spending half a day to go take out a tree that turns out not to be there and 2) hearing that the tree's out but then finding out it was moved or cut in way not appropriate to the trail and having to go fix it anyway. We have guy around here who cuts out to tread width no matter what---if it's four feet in the air and a total pungi hazard it still goes to tread width---and every year the stewards go and redo the cuts to make them safe. You'd think he'd have figured it out by now.


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