# New Ashima Ai2 Rotors



## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

Hey guys,
Did you heard about the new Ashima Rotors?
There will be called Ai2 and the sizes available will be 160 and 180. Also there will be lighter by 23% than the current AiRotor and will be available from March 2012.

The complete article here: Romanian weight weenies » Blog Archive » Noile discuri Ashima Ai2 It is in Romanian but using Google Translate will help you !


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

No, a test will be performed and another article with a review will come.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

That's not a bad looking rotor at all. I wonder how performance is. Did the article say anything about testing? I'm not feeling adventurous enough to try to translate Romanian right now.


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## mtbnozpikr (Sep 1, 2008)

vladxc said:


> No, a test will be performed and another article with a review will come.


Great, I look forward to it.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

awesome! not a bad weight in comparison to my scrubs either!


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

And these will be cheaper and more durable compared to the scrubs...


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

but there is hardly any braking surface. It's not a problem creating very light rotor, but there is a problem creating light and fully working one...
I've tried all these cheap light ones and in comparsion to for eg storm rotors there is only 50-60% their strenght. So by looking in this light on strom rotors i can be quicker on given distance because i can brake later and harder... so don't really see the point of having such one.


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## Veda (Dec 17, 2009)

The lightest rotor that is also still as good as the regular Shimanos, no actually better as they still bite even during rain, is the Quad Pulse XC. Very cheap, lasts forever, but prone to bending. I'm currently using the KCNC Razors but I might actually switch back to the Quads. This looks very similar to the Razors, usable only for XC...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I used the Ashima AiRotor for many years. Works great. No issues at all. I still use two sets on a regular basis. 160mm and 140mm for both bikes. One with sintered metal pads, the other with organics.

I'm very happy. All steel rotors perform the same in braking power. 

No different in power than Hope floatings. 

Braking power is not a function of its surface area. It is dependent on the rotor size and the pad material unless the rotor and pad overheats, which seldom do.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> Braking power is not a function of its surface area. It is dependent on the rotor size and the pad material unless the rotor and pad overheats, which seldom do.


with such statement hardly none or no surface at all will perform same as full braking surface. 
Less surface under pad means greater braking preassure to generate same friction (and the grater the pressure the grater temperature is). Less material mean as well more heat generated per cubic mm on the existing surface. This is because you will try to acheive same braking friction on smaller surface. 
Of coure this is more complicated and more factors play a role here, but in general with such design you create micro overheating in points. So you think that braking rotor is not overheating but in fact it is. It heats very quickly to hight temp and cools down same quick due to lack of material - but it is still overheating. 
It's like heating the needle over lighter compared to heating a bigger steel plate. Neddle will overheat(glow!) in a metter of ceconds but it will cool down as quick - but this state changes material structure and overheats brake calliper.


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Cheers! said:


> I used the Ashima AiRotor for many years. Works great. No issues at all. I still use two sets on a regular basis. 160mm and 140mm for both bikes. One with sintered metal pads, the other with organics.
> 
> I'm very happy. All steel rotors perform the same in braking power.
> 
> ...


+1. This was my experience also. I went from Alligator Windcutter's to Hope Floating rotors and then to Ashima AiRotor, and noticed very little difference in power between them.

I will admit that the new Shimano rotors combined with new XTR brakes are VERY powerful.


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## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

tehan said:


> with such statement hardly none or no surface at all will perform same as full braking surface.


Yes.



tehan said:


> So you think that braking rotor is not overheating but in fact it is. It heats very quickly to hight temp and cools down same quick due to lack of material - but it is still overheating.


How do you know this?



tehan said:


> It's like heating the needle over lighter compared to heating a bigger steel plate. Neddle will overheat(glow!) in a metter of ceconds but it will cool down as quick - but this state changes material structure and overheats brake calliper.


How is it like that?

Cheers! is right. See Energy of Friction.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

tehan said:


> with such statement hardly none or no surface at all will perform same as full braking surface.
> Less surface under pad means greater braking preassure to generate same friction (and the grater the pressure the grater temperature is). Less material mean as well more heat generated per cubic mm on the existing surface. This is because you will try to acheive same braking friction on smaller surface.
> Of coure this is more complicated and more factors play a role here, but in general with such design you create micro overheating in points. So you think that braking rotor is not overheating but in fact it is. It heats very quickly to hight temp and cools down same quick due to lack of material - but it is still overheating.
> It's like heating the needle over lighter compared to heating a bigger steel plate. Neddle will overheat(glow!) in a metter of ceconds but it will cool down as quick - but this state changes material structure and overheats brake calliper.


Wrong. A brake rotor is homogenous. There is no such thing as micro overheating of points. The heat energy generated by two sliding surface is instantly removed from the surface to the rest of the brake rotor as steel is thermally conductive.

Let me recopy an old post I made about this same argument years ago.

frictional force is proportional to the applied normal force and is independent of the contact area.

What we are analyzing here is kinetic friction (sliding friction) between the brake pads and the brake rotor. Normal force is applied via the hydraulic pressure that presses the pads against the rotor. There are only two things for you to consider

1.) Normal applied force
2.) coefficient of friction

let's look at #1. Consider that the two surfaces at their microscopic levels. The normal forces applied creates a bonding between the atoms of the brake pad and the atoms of the brake rotor. This bond is stronger as the force applied goes up.

For #2 we look it accounts for the number of contact points between the two surfaces. This is what the coefficient of friction is.

Hence Force of Friction = (coefficient of friction)(Normal force applied)

The surface area in essence is already considered in the Normal force applied. So when you push down on your brake pad the normal force is distributed across the surface that makes contact with the rotor. The density of the contact points is uniform across the brake pads so that means the formation of contact points depends on the normal force per unit area.

Normal Force = Normal force over area * area
Normal Force = (N/A)*A

A larger contact area would give you more contact points (atomic wise), but each contact point would get less force. In other words since the force applied equals force divided by the area of contact, it works out that the increase in friction generating area is exactly offset by the reduction in force applied on each contact point.

If you are still doubtful do an experiment. This is the exact demonstration my high school teacher did for me back in grade 11.

Take a brick and place it lengthwise on your table. Tie a string through one of it's holes. Take a fish scale and hook it to the end of the string and pull it in such a way that the string is parallel to the table. Record down the force you are pulling with once the brick moves.

Now take the same brick and place it with it's smallest face contacting the table. Retie the string near the center of gravity of the brick. Use the same fish scale and pull the same.

You will note that the force required to pull the brick regardless of if it's on its biggest face versus its smallest face is the same.

Coefficient of friction is determined by experiment/test. All the values that are referenced in the back of text books are obtained by sliding two surfaces together and accurately measuring the force required to get it moving, and the force required to keep it moving. The earlier determines the static coefficient of friction, and the later determines the kinetic coefficient of friction.

The coefficient of friction stays relatively constant for temperatures we experience. If you make your rotor glow red or went mountain bike when it is -20C outside that is a different story.

For example, the braking "power" of the ashima brake rotor shown in the video at the beginning is greater than the braking "power" at the end, because your rotor is now glowing red. If the brake caliper's input force was modulated such that it was only applied for brief moments at a time while letting both pads and rotors to cool and the disc stayed constant in speed the measured braking force would stay the same.

This would be typical of normal riding conditions. If you believe that the type of riding you do has you needing to have the brakes applied at great force and for close to 3 minutes while you are continuing to accelerate than no brake designed for mountain bikes will be adequate for you.






The only thing to worry about is if the designer of the brake rotor calculated the forces correctly such that the spider does not collapse or crack under the loads during braking.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

I've used the Ashima AiRotor, Alligator Aries, Hygia lightweight rotors and now 2012 HSX rotors.

In the dry, for short braking distances, like your average XC course, they are almost all the same in terms of performance using organic or sintered pads.

Where you'll notice the difference is:
- in the wet; and
- on long descents with lots of hard braking and stretches where the brakes need to be used almost continuously to control speed.

In both of these circumstances I've found the rotors with less braking surface suffer from reduced braking power.

The less thermal mass in the rotor, the quicker you can feel it heat up and start to fade. At the end of the day, you're converting kinetic energy into friction/heat and on heavy braking that heat goes into the rotor, pads and caliper. A lighter rotor will cool down quicker, but on extended descents requiring almost continous braking it doesn't get the chance to cool down.

Its a highly individual thing whether a brake rotor will work for you. The lightweight rotors like the Aries and Hygia work really well for me until I head up into the mountains where they just don't cope well with 700m+ vertical descents and the added weight of a pack.

I'd expect these new rotors to suffer from the same limitations, but they'll probably be great if ridden without those limits. What will probably suck with them is that the rotor surface will wear unevenly because there is so little metal in the middle of the track. This is my main criticism of the Hygia SLP rotors which otherwise have been great.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Cheers, i did the same experiment in high school, i think its common place for any basics physics class.


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

TigWorld said:


> I've used the Ashima AiRotor, Alligator Aries, Hygia lightweight rotors and now 2012 HSX rotors.
> 
> In the dry, for short braking distances, like your average XC course, they are almost all the same in terms of performance using organic or sintered pads.
> 
> ...


Surprised your experiment was so neutral. I ran aires rotors for a bit, and they were much weaker than the g3 cleansweep rotors they replaced. I made sure to wear them in well past the TiN coating. Finally gave up on them and went to ashima rotors, which were very close in power to the g3s.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I don't want to quote such long posts, so:

you guys are not taking in consideration few things. Law of phisics are right and Cheers described them correctly. But,
When pad material is overheated it will perform completly different to it's original design and this is quicker to acheive with certain rotor designs. 
Second thing is that surfaces with certain design will wear in certain way. This leads to not having force applied from piston distributed uniformly. (pad will start working from an angle, or it will start to cone)
All is fine in theory but if you start making your own rotors you will find quite quickly that there is more problems with such "light" designs as you think. 

I have already went this way and made some prototypes. First ones were terrible as rotor was eaten by pads quite quick, second was coned, few had overheated spots on circumference of braking track, one had terrible harmonic, etc (i took me months to get it right). So from my expirience it does matter how much material is on braking surfece (these with too less were not working at all) and how the design looks like from circumference perspective of contact between pad and rotor. 

You will probably disagree with me again, but as i said first do your own rotors and you will find how other factors play big role into equation.


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## Guest (Nov 27, 2011)

tehan said:


> you guys are not taking in consideration few things. Law of phisics are right and Cheers described them correctly. But,
> When pad material is overheated it will perform completly different to it's original design and this is quicker to acheive with certain rotor designs.


There is an automatic assumption that because this rotor has incrementally less material that it will overheat. No consideration is given to how significant the difference is.



tehan said:


> All is fine in theory but if you start making your own rotors you will find quite quickly that there is more problems with such "light" designs as you think.
> ... as i said first do your own rotors and you will find how other factors play big role into equation.


The industry is filled with examples of businesses who make things that suck so there's no assumed level of expertise.


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

Cheers! said:


> I used the Ashima AiRotor for many years. Works great. No issues at all. I still use two sets on a regular basis. 160mm and 140mm for both bikes. One with sintered metal pads, the other with organics.
> 
> I'm very happy. All steel rotors perform the same in braking power.
> 
> ...


How have the Ashima AiRotor's been with the organic pads? I thought that they were not reccommended to be used with organic pads because they chew them to pieces.

The reason I ask is because I have some of the new XTR Race disc brakes on order and they come with organic pads. I already have Ashima AiRotors and would like to use them with the XTR brakes without changing pads if possible.

Thanks.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

craigsj said:


> ...No consideration is given to how significant the difference is...


The difference may not be much, the problem is once you overheat the rotor, braking performance is dramatically less until you can stop braking and let the rotor cool. All you can do is try these rotors and see if they work for your weight, speed and terrain.

For XC you will seldom have to brake for long enough to overheat any rotor (unless you're being held up by slower riders and having to drag the brakes), but once you hit the big mountains with long descents with a pack etc. you may be wishing for a 20g heavier rotor that doesn't reach its overheat point quite so quickly.

I've also experienced all of those things Tehan mentioned. The Ashima AiRotors have a tendancy to pulse - particular on the front. There is something in their design that results in harmonic frequencies building up and causing that vibration. The Alligator Aries rotors have a tendancy to rip chunks out of the middle of brake pads. The Hygia SLP rotors wear quickly in the middle of the braking track and you get "coned" pads.


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

TigWorld said:


> The difference may not be much, the problem is once you overheat the rotor, braking performance is dramatically less until you can stop braking and let the rotor cool.


If the difference isn't much, then the problem you describe is equally a problem for other rotors. There is no problem unless the alternatives are already failing in which case you should be solving that rather than looking for weight savings.



TigWorld said:


> All you can do is try these rotors and see if they work for your weight, speed and terrain.


That's all you can do with any rotor.



TigWorld said:


> For XC you will seldom have to brake for long enough to overheat any rotor (unless you're being held up by slower riders and having to drag the brakes), but once you hit the big mountains with long descents with a pack etc. you may be wishing for a 20g heavier rotor that doesn't reach its overheat point quite so quickly.


Riders interested in parts like these are competing on the scales, not the big mountains. Not everyone has access to big mountains.

"Overheat quite so quickly" again assumes the difference is significant. Just because you imagine a difference doesn't mean it's important. "The difference may not be much" were words you said but apparently don't understand. If you need a DH brake this isn't it. I think everyone understands that already.


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

Craig, if you were looking at the XCO World Cup, you can spot the current AiRotors at a lot of teams that are not sponsored. 
I am also racing XCO and Marathon races and I didn't had any problems for the past 3 years with the Airotors, if the brakes were properly bleeded. 
This week end even if it was cold, I had the chance to ride the new Ai2 for around 65km and until now are pretty good. I am 70kg and 1.80 tall and I live in an area with a lot of hill and the mountains are pretty close to my house. Maybe you should brake less and let the bike flow?


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## Guest (Nov 28, 2011)

vladxc said:


> Craig, if you were looking at the XCO World Cup, you can spot the current AiRotors at a lot of teams that are not sponsored.
> I am also racing XCO and Marathon races and I didn't had any problems for the past 3 years with the Airotors, if the brakes were properly bleeded.
> This week end even if it was cold, I had the chance to ride the new Ai2 for around 65km and until now are pretty good. I am 70kg and 1.80 tall and I live in an area with a lot of hill and the mountains are pretty close to my house. Maybe you should brake less and let the bike flow?


I am not arguing against the new rotors, I'm arguing against the armchair engineers that say they will overheat.  I have also used Airotors and never overheated one.

Brakes shed heat into the air; storing it internally in thermal mass isn't a design goal. All we have here are a few people clinging onto some intellectual minutia in order to spread FUD about a part they don't own.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Every brake will overheat. Some faster than others. I didn't try those rotors yet, but from my experience, rotors like those tend to overheat sooner, causing the brakes to fade.

Recently changed from hope pro rotors to the stock formula on my R1 and the breaking power increased and the fading decreased a bit...

As I see it, if they fit a persons riding style, they are ok for that person. It doesn't make any sense that you have to change your riding style just to be able to use certain bike part...

Just my thoughts.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Took them out on a couple of forays on really technical terrain, and they felt a lot like the AiRotors. They made the light wispy clicking noise, which is pretty normal on all the cutouts types. They felt strong, and didn't squeal, and didn't fade too much on the long runs I could get them on. It's the winter in Colorado so it's tough to find a really long steep downhill to make extreme fade analysis, but I'll keep testing and see what I can come up with. So far so good!


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

How thick are the new Ashima Ai2 rotors?


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

sfer1 said:


> How thick are the new Ashima Ai2 rotors?


My micrometer shows 1.75mm


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

wow thats as thick as a human hair! incredible! :thumbsup:


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

sergio_pt said:


> wow thats as thick as a human hair! incredible! :thumbsup:


Too funny!

In human hair mode (which is 17 to 181 µm) or 1 RCH, the rotor would be 1750 µm


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Did you weigh your rotors Pasta.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

xc71 said:


> Did you weigh your rotors Pasta.


Yep!

I have four of them in 160mm size, and they came in at 66.2, 66.3, 67.0 and 66.8 grams


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

pastajet said:


> Yep!
> 
> I have four of them in 160mm size, and they came in at 66.2, 66.3, 67.0 and 66.8 grams


where can I get a set???


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

The 160 will be available in Jan, while the 180 will be at the end of Feb (only sizes they’ll do), with color options later in the year, pricing should be close to the other rotors. You should be able to get them anywhere that currently sells Ashima AiRotor's. 

Hope that helps!


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## bikerboyj17 (Dec 18, 2007)

Do you have any idea on the suggested retail of these rotors? Are they going to cost more than the original AiRotors?

Thanks!


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

pastajet said:


> Yep!
> 
> I have four of them in 160mm size, and they came in at 66.2, 66.3, 67.0 and 66.8 grams


Nice weights - thanks.


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

bikerboyj17 said:


> Do you have any idea on the suggested retail of these rotors? Are they going to cost more than the original AiRotors?
> 
> Thanks!


As far as I know the price will be near the AiRotors but always when something new is on the market the seller will try to get as much as they can. Obviously.


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

pastajet said:


> My micrometer shows 1.75mm


They're too thin to be paired with the new Magura MT8 brakes.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Why no 140mm? I've always run 160mm up front and 140 rear on my race bike.


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

Because there are lighter already than the 160mm AiRotor, because there are a lot of frames with PM brake mount that allow only 160mm and because the sales for the 140mm are to low to be produces.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

Where to buy?
Thanks


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

R2-bike they ship world wide. I don't know other shop yet...


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## weescott (May 7, 2006)

vladxc said:


> R2-bike they ship world wide. I don't know other shop yet...


I ordered a pair at the weekend from R2-bike. No word on shipping yet. :sad:


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## In-Yo-Grill (Jul 19, 2011)

I've been using Ashima's on my XC bike and so far I like them alot. I've never used them on an aggressive downhill bike though.


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## weescott (May 7, 2006)

They arrived:










Not ridden with them yet. Scales are broken so no weight yet either. But they do look pretty!


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## sinaman (Feb 17, 2006)

] ur]


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## toyhto (Oct 11, 2008)

My pair were 70g and 68g.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Have you checked out the new two-piece AiNeon, which seems to use the Ai2 rotor Ashima AiNeon | Mountain Bike Review


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

I got a few rides on mine with XTR M-985 brakes. Works well. No pulsation or other mishaps. Mine were 68/69 grams.


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Well, I will probably be picking up a new set of rotors as I am collecting parts for my new wheel build. I have been riding on a set of KCNC Razors for a while running the stock Avid pads that came with my Elixer CR's. The rear wheel started squealing a few months back and it simply got to where I couldn't take it any more so I picked up a set of organics for the rear. The squeal was gone! But about mid way thru the first ride my rear brake started sounding like an ABS set up firing on a car when the brakes were applied. I was stumped and figured that even though I went thru the process of breaking in the new pads that perhaps it was just an issue of old rotors with new pads. So I pulled the stock rotors out that came with my brakes (never used them so they are brand new). The thumping was gone and I thought I was going to flip over the bars when I hit the rear brake. Awesome! Again however, I was about 3/4 thru my ride and started getting the thumping again but much more faint. I got home, cleaned the bike to include the rotors/brakes in general (no real special attention, just a good wipe down of everything) and the thumping was gone. I'm thinking that it was not so much a compatibility issues (I mean I'm using an Avid pad on and Avid brake, on an Avid rotor) as it is the thin dust being kicked up from the trails getting on the rotors and what not. It seems like a quick wipe off and all is good (or a creek crossing)

In any case, I can say that the organic pads on the stock rotor seems to bite harder and provide stronger braking than either the sintered or organic pads on a Razor rotor. Unfortunately the stock rotors are about 30g heavier than the Razor's which sucks. So I figure I will try something new here with my wheels when I finally get them all built.

My question for you guys is if you have experienced this thumping ABS feeling before with well vented rotors (think light weight, KCNC, Ashima, Scrub...). Do you guys typically change out your pads when you swap between wheels/rotors?


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## mariosimas (Nov 30, 2009)

i think i will substitute my 2 KCNC razors for this Ashima Ai2 and save more 20g


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

I don't understand why not 203mm in those new light rotors
Is the only way to go light with enough power (in front) in brakes like Formula R1, for all mountain and/or big riders


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Has anyone seen where you can get these in the US?


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## jtidwell (Sep 5, 2009)

Bump, looking for the same info ^^^^^^^^.


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

Google searches show nothing


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## stephend9 (Jan 28, 2010)

*Availability*

Does anyone know of any US retailers have these in stock yet?


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## subspd (Jan 24, 2007)

I have done a regular google search and get nothing.


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

STS said:


> I don't understand why not 203mm in those new light rotors
> Is the only way to go light with enough power (in front) in brakes like Formula R1, for all mountain and/or big riders


These rotors are not for All Mountain or big riders.
For that Ashima will have the AiNeon soon, but even this one I don't know if it will be made in 203mm


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## Ciesiel (May 31, 2012)

*Ai2 availability*



subspd said:


> I have done a regular google search and get nothing.


I see you were looking for source of Ai2 Lightweight Ashima rotor - 160mm/6" - silver - at the moment 160 version only. 180 is still is tests mode and will come out soon . Reportedly also color versions are to come later this year.

Hope to have been helpful,

Michal


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

They have the 180mm here: ASHIMA Bremsscheibe Ai2 Rotor 180mm 97g, 34,50 €

reputable show that I can recommend


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

And I can recommed mcsport.pl as well, they source the 160mm at the moment

Lightweight Ashima rotor - 160mm/6" - silver


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## stephend9 (Jan 28, 2010)

*J&B Importers has them*

My LBS just got me 2 Ai2 160mm rotors from one of their distributors called J&B Importers and there are still more in stock in the US.

Cant post links yet:
www dot jbimporters dot com

Just an FYI


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## olowe (Jan 25, 2009)

I just orded a pair through Amazon from( Niagara Cycle Works) 24$ each so you can get them.

http://www.amazon.com/Ashima-Ai2-Ul...r_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1338578805&sr=8-1:thumbsup:


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## dannynoonan (Jul 4, 2011)

Thanks for the link. Ordered a set.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

vladxc said:


> These rotors are not for All Mountain or big riders.
> For that Ashima will have the AiNeon soon, but even this one I don't know if it will be made in 203mm


Only 160 and 180


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

Got the 180 today, looks






great


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Well, I couldn't track down a set of the Ai2's so I went with the standard Ai in red 160's paired with my M985 brakes. They work great. While I haven't measured them against my KCNC's I can tell you that the AI's are thicker than the KCNC's (thru wear I'm sure). My 985's have alot more lever pull to get the same feel of the KCNC's as the new Ashima's

Been on them for about 6 rides now. No squealing and they simply work great! Couldn't be happier for the price. Now I think I need to get another set to replace the old KCNC's. Perhaps I will have better luck tracking down the new version when the time comes.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

Trond said:


> Got the 180 today, looks
> View attachment 701794
> great


Where?


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Why no 140mm? If I can get away with a 160 up front, I don't need more than 140 rear.


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## Trond (Mar 7, 2004)

STS said:


> Where?


See link in post #59


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## Iamwarthog (May 30, 2006)

Available in the US through J & B Importers (most bike shops can order from J & B) as stated above, however they are marketed under the Origin 8 brand.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

Has anyone ridden these things and want to report? I'm thinking of putting them on my CX bike, curious how they work when its wet and muddy.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

Question bump.


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

They work well. The same as AiRotor. When it's muddy I think that the brake pads will wear faster only. But I bet that they will look awesome on a CX and will works the same.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

STS said:


> I don't understand why not 203mm in those new light rotors
> Is the only way to go light with enough power (in front) in brakes like Formula R1, for all mountain and/or big riders


A lot more trq is generated by 203mm rotors. The über lightweight design would probably fail under max braking force.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

Thanks
Finally I bought the Ai2 in 180mm and it has a little better break power than the 180mm air rotor
96g
I think I will not need th 203mm one


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## raganwald (Mar 1, 2011)

Stumpjumpy said:


> A lot more trq is generated by 203mm rotors. The über lightweight design would probably fail under max braking force.


Or warp even if they don't suffer a catastrophic failure. Plus, the kind of people who mount 203s do some heavy, heavy braking that generates a lot of heat. The lack of material in these rotors suggests they won't be able to dissipate the heat quickly enough to keep the pistons from overheating, which in turn will boil the brake fluid.

You don't want that, no sir.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

raganwald said:


> Or warp even if they don't suffer a catastrophic failure. Plus, the kind of people who mount 203s do some heavy, heavy braking that generates a lot of heat. The lack of material in these rotors suggests they won't be able to dissipate the heat quickly enough to keep the pistons from overheating, which in turn will boil the brake fluid.
> 
> You don't want that, no sir.


Note: as stated, they don't make the Ai2 in 203, just 160 and 180 (soon a 140). Wayne still considers them a XC rotor, hence no 203. His new two-piece Flo-ToR is All Mountain, and will come in 160, 180, 203, and the other two-piece Ai-Neon is XC and comes in 160 and 180, while the AiRotor come in 140-203.

You are drawing some big conclusions on what these rotors will do and how they perform at that sizing?

I have used the AiRotor 203's (and others that were beta) under some massive braking and never had any issues. Wayne of Ashima tests his rotors to death, and he brings them up to glowing red conditions to see when they will fail. Obviously under any biking type conditions they aren't going to glow. He has some test riders that put all of his rotors under very torturous conditions and usage before ever releasing anything to the public. Under real world conditions they are excellent rotors, and won't overheat and boil brake fluid.

When you compare the Magura Storm (normal fuller surface rotor) and Storm SL (Ashmia like with lots of cut outs), the Storm has more braking power and will fade less when pushed to their maximum extremes.

I can't wait to try out his new two-piece Flo-ToR when they come out.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

*pastajet,*

When will the 140mm rotor be out?

Chris.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

krzysiekmz said:


> *pastajet,*
> 
> When will the 140mm rotor be out?
> 
> Chris.


Chris,

Should be early next year, but they might just shift to only releasing the AiNeon two-piece in 140.


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## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Thanks, 

well I hope they do release the AiRotor in 140mm. Seems preety easy to scale it down from 160mm. I need one to match the front. 

These are great rotors and make all aluminium rotors preety pointless since the weight is so close and the performance much better. 

Chris.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

krzysiekmz said:


> Thanks,
> 
> well I hope they do release the AiRotor in 140mm. Seems preety easy to scale it down from 160mm. I need one to match the front.
> 
> ...


Official statement - Ai2 in 140mm will be available in the end of 2012 (but I'd go by my first of year prediction)

AiRotor - they are already available in 140, 160, 180, 185, and 203

I am doing some testing of the two-piece AiNeon currently in 160mm size, which weigh in at 72 grams. They should have the 180mm AiNeon out in Jan?


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Any chance the AiNeon will be available in 140mm size?


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Cheers! said:


> Any chance the AiNeon will be available in 140mm size?


Ashima said that they would, but honestly, the market for 140mm is shrinking since most frames and forks are at a minimum PM 160mm


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## jbsteven (Aug 12, 2009)

sfer1 said:


> They're too thin to be paired with the new Magura MT8 brakes.


i use them on my MT8's and they work fine. Little more lever pull than other rotors but I like that.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

jbsteven said:


> i use them on my MT8's and they work fine. Little more lever pull than other rotors but I like that.


I have also used them on my MT8/MT6 and I did need to stick in new pads in and adjust the pistons out slightly, but they have worked fine?


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

This happened in my last 2 kms... Fortunatelly I finished... with the disk in my hand


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

How?


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

FishMan473 said:


> How?


Braking... after a long downhill I was hearing it very noisy, stopped and it brokened like butter


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Been using them for several months without any issue, and I ride lots of long downhills. Wayne of Ashima gets those suckers glowing red hot on a special machine to get them to fail, but that shouldn't happen in any sort of normal situation. 

Were the rotor bolts loose or did it just go catastrophic mode?


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

The bolts were loosen


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Was it front or rear ? And what about the other rotor too ?

Funny though since I don't see much metal burn discoloration on it, which would usually indicate a major over-heating. Unless your rotor was a Chinese knock-off (like many Avid ones), which uses lower quality steel and treatment, as well as poor QC and specs.

Still funny shape. Glad you made it alive and to the finish


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## olowe (Jan 25, 2009)

I had my rear rotor (a XX rotor ) break off and wreck my rear hub mounting tabs. This was totally my fault for not using locktite on the rotor bolts because they backed out and allowed the rotor to move. I now use the new Ashima rotors without probs.


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## patrul (May 27, 2009)

It is the rear disk... happilly


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## hramd001 (May 3, 2013)

Does anyone know how these perform with Shimano BL-M595/BR-M595?


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## boren (Mar 23, 2009)

Three years later and there are still no reviews of the AI2. I'm trying to decide between them and the 20-gram-heavier AiRotor. Anyone tried both? Is the AiRotor less likely to warp than the AI2? To me this is more important than the difference in weight...


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

boren said:


> Three years later and there are still no reviews of the AI2. I'm trying to decide between them and the 20-gram-heavier AiRotor. Anyone tried both? Is the AiRotor less likely to warp than the AI2? To me this is more important than the difference in weight...


I am using them for cross country, including racing.
So far I didn't had any trouble. They perform as well as the Airotor no matter the condition. I must say that I am 68-70kg and I am using the 160mm version front and rear.
When the 140mm will be out I am planning to switch on a 140mm in the rear.


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## stephend9 (Jan 28, 2010)

boren said:


> Three years later and there are still no reviews of the AI2. I'm trying to decide between them and the 20-gram-heavier AiRotor. Anyone tried both? Is the AiRotor less likely to warp than the AI2? To me this is more important than the difference in weight...


I've tried both and feel like the AI2 is almost as good as the original AiRotor. It does seem to shudder a little bit more do to the large gaps in material, but works fine for general stopping. I find the Ai2 to have slightly less stopping power than the AiRotor. The AiRotor seems to have less stopping power and modulation than the stock Avid G3 rotors that I was using.

For general trail riding I like the Ashimas a lot, but if you're a fast, competitive racer I would say to stick with the stock rotors.


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## vladxc (Jan 22, 2009)

I tried AiRotor, Ai2, AiNeon and now the Flo-Tor rotors from Ashima and I didn't noticed the lack of power that you mentioned. I think it depends a lot on the conditions, weight of the rider, how much he brakes.

I prefer the Ashima for everyday riding but also for racing. The characteristics are the same in my case.

And another thing is that they don't wear out as fast as the stock rotors from Magura or Avid.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

Their new Flo-Tor's are killer rotors!

Grams Light Bikes - Mountain Bike and Gear Reviews, and News: Just In - Ashima Flo-Tor and AiNeon Rotors


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## morepower (May 14, 2012)

Anyone know a price for the Flo Tor rotors???


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## MaLoL1 (Jan 16, 2004)

these discs are crap, they don't brake properly. I would rather use a smaller decent disc to save weight.


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## FishMan473 (Jan 2, 2003)

I disagree. They stop notably better than my Avid XX or BB 7 rotors. A lot noisier though.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

That's interesting because I have used the airotor but ended up going back to hsx rotors for better performance.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

TigWorld said:


> That's interesting because I have used the airotor but ended up going back to hsx rotors for better performance.


The HSX are full surface rotors, so not really a fair comparison to the AirRotor cutouts. Instead the HSX needs to go head-to-head against Ashima's Flo-Tor's.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

pastajet said:


> The HSX are full surface rotors, so not really a fair comparison to the AirRotor cutouts. Instead the HSX needs to go head-to-head against Ashima's Flo-Tor's.


Maybe, but Fishman said



FishMan473 said:


> ... They stop notably better than my Avid XX ... rotors...


I have not found that to be the case.

BTW Pastajet, are you getting the Ashima stuff for free? Your posts are a good advertisement for their stuff.


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## pastajet (May 26, 2006)

TigWorld said:


> BTW Pastajet, are you getting the Ashima stuff for free? Your posts are a good advertisement for their stuff.


I do get their stuff for free, but I am certainty not paid by them or anyone. I have yet to come out with a full review on things (soon I hope). They are a bit too thin to work perfectly with my Magura MT series brakes (though I have used them without undue issues), but they do work perfectly fine on other brakes (Avid/Shimano, etc).

In increasing order of power: Ai2, AiNeon (just an Ai2 strapped onto an aluminum carrier), AiRotor, Flor-Tor.

The Ai2 and AiNeon are really light, and the AiNeon has better heat management, but they are obviously a weight weenie rotor, with a slight power loss to things with more surface area. Compared to most of the other weight weenie rotors on the market (which I have tested) these perform much better. I still like the AiRotor myself, and I think the cutouts and a tad more surface area help with power. Having some nice freshly ground in pads helps immensely. I was surprised how many of the Europeans at the Enduro races were using lightweight rotors, and they certainly haul butt and put brakes to some massive stresses. My fave currently is their new Flo-Tor floating All Mountain rotor, which at 132g for a 180mm isn't exactly feather light, but talk about some immense power without any fade.

Clockwise from top left - Flor-Tor/AiNeon/AiRotor/Ai2


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## Visceral (Jan 18, 2011)

Its worth noting the brakes and pads you are using to squeeze the rotors.

There is going to be a *substantial* difference between, say Shimano XTR Trail and Avid Elixir CR with the exact same rotor.

So far the AiRotor is a single-finger brake with the Shimano and organic pad (great), and its almost dangerously ineffective with the Elixir CR with a sintered pad.

Every rotor is part of a larger system.


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## Luis M. (Jun 9, 2013)

I've been using Ashima Airotors for the past 6 months on my 29er. I use a lot of brake on my DH runs and these brakes work very well with 0 fade. They do eat up pads like there's no tomorrow though, but that's fine by me. Imo these are excellent rotors.


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## protyne (Oct 24, 2011)

pastajet said:


> In increasing order of power: Ai2, AiNeon (just an Ai2 strapped onto an aluminum carrier), AiRotor, Flor-Tor.


Hi how much difference in braking power between the Ai2 and Airotor?

I'm using the Ai2 now with XTR M985. Found it to be similar to my previous XT M785 with Hope Minis Floating.

Wonder if a Airotor will improve braking performance?


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## bamwa (Mar 15, 2010)

I love mine and do not notice any increased wear on the pads. Gonna get some for the gf's bike.


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## rsvmille00 (Feb 22, 2008)

I ran these for the last season on my 29er and had no issues with them other than above average pad wear.


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## broadwayline (Jan 19, 2008)

I have a pair - actually cracked the rear rotor where it meets the hub after 1 season of racing


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## andresco50 (Apr 19, 2012)

Mtb marathon and xc rider and racer here!! I had ai2 rotors for 8 months and maybe 2000 miles and I haven't any problem with my xtr m988 brakeset!! Im 65kg and normal wear pads!
The secret with these rotors is that u have to use the shimano g01a resin pads!! perfect braking absolutely no noise i love this rotors and now I will install these in my 2014 sw stumpy!!!


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## FunkyFreeman (Jul 27, 2015)

sfer1 said:


> They're too thin to be paired with the new Magura MT8 brakes.


Ugh!!! Just placed an order on a pair of ai2 to use with my MT5... :eekster::eekster::eekster:


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Anyone know the minimum rotor thickness? Mine is about 1.6.


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## Gliding_serpent (Aug 8, 2017)

figured i would update this fyi

the ashima ai2 160mm rotors are listed at 73g on their website now. They are stamped with that weight also. Weighing them puts them slightly under weight. They come with 6 stainless bolts at 12g total. They are about 1.7mm thick (vs 2mm for some on my giant cx bike)
















The other rotor is a quaxar iris. Identical shape, thickness, weight. Just rebranded.


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

So i have a set 180/160mm rotors and i have them never had good performance out of them. I am running Deore brakes and with any shimano rotor (cheap to expensive) i get awesome stopping power. however i put the AI2s on and it is worse then huffy side pulls. what are you guys doing to get these to work or are you just accepting sub-par performance. 

honestly asking. 

thank you


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## Gliding_serpent (Aug 8, 2017)

I have yet to use them, but will get back to you in the spring. I am 135lbs, and my bike is 20lbs or so... and I don't do much "downhill." I breath on the brakes now and then. Someone told me these rotors were made for my needs.

How about you?



Jefflinde said:


> So i have a set 180/160mm rotors and i have them never had good performance out of them. I am running Deore brakes and with any shimano rotor (cheap to expensive) i get awesome stopping power. however i put the AI2s on and it is worse then huffy side pulls. what are you guys doing to get these to work or are you just accepting sub-par performance.
> 
> honestly asking.
> 
> thank you


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I've been using these rotors for the past four years...and the stopping power of the brakes work just as good as the RT-86 they replaced...at least for my application. I've used the rotors in situations where I've had to drag them pretty hardcore. I've never felt like they were inadequate in any situation.

I'm 140lbs (before any gear) and my bike is just under 20lbs with no bottle.

My brake setup is,

Ai2 180/160mm, XT calipers with non finned resin pads, and XTR Race levers.

Keep in mind that these are fairly minimalist rotors. If you're a 260lb "trail rider"...they may not be the best idea.


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

I've put them on four bikes all with XTR 9000 brakes and they all work awesome........


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

Yeah i am defiantly fat so that is one thing. I was running them my fat bike in the winter because people had said they don't howl like other rotors since they warm up really fast. i am in MN so we have no hills but i was just very un-impressed with their power. I guess i could try them on my wife bike. she is a super fly weight rider so maybe they will work for her. thanks for the input everyone


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## Gliding_serpent (Aug 8, 2017)

Jefflinde said:


> Yeah i am defiantly fat so that is one thing. I was running them my fat bike in the winter because people had said they don't howl like other rotors since they warm up really fast. i am in MN so we have no hills but i was just very un-impressed with their power. I guess i could try them on my wife bike. she is a super fly weight rider so maybe they will work for her. thanks for the input everyone


I had thought about putting them on my fatty for similar reasons, but that bike is 35lbs in winter kit. Most of the weight is in the studded wraithchild tires, so it is a lot of rotating mass to slow. If they feel incredible, i may try them... but for now i am sticking to heavier rotors on the fatty.


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## xblitzkriegx (Jul 29, 2016)

i use these with XT brakes. i have had no problems with stopping power. theyve been to cuyuna in mn, out in colorado, and in nw arkansas. i weigh 195lbs and theyve seen full on downhill trials. 

before the ai2, i had centerlines. they were great too, they just weighed twice as much and didnt brake any better or resist heat any better either.

learning when and how to brake really helps. also, being scared less lol.


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## Ryandurepo (Nov 29, 2012)

I weigh 190 before kitting and bike. I race Cross country but have hit some nice downhills (1-2 minutes) and run 160 f/r with shimano g04ti pads in m9000 brakes. Ive never had them fade and always had good bite. Tip is dont use resin pads, they will get eaten up, metallic for sure with these rotors.


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## moefosho (Apr 30, 2013)

Anyone try these on an enduro bike setup. How do they handle a 20 minute downhill run?


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

moefosho said:


> Anyone try these on an enduro bike setup. How do they handle a 20 minute downhill run?


I don't have the Ai2, but I do have the Flotors on my trail bike. I'm using them with some Magura MT Trail Sports. I've used that set up at bike parks and my local shuttle trail...which is 7 miles long with a 3k descent.

The thought of using the Ai2 did cross my mind. The good thing about the Ai2 is that the cost is pretty low. You can always try one rotor out...and if you don't like it...no big loss.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

moefosho said:


> Anyone try these on an enduro bike setup. How do they handle a 20 minute downhill run?


Nope, I have the 180/160s on my fatbike, Ai2s and AirRotors, they overheat super fast with any real steep riding/heavy braking. They are plenty in the winter on the snow, except for the couple DH races we do in the spring at the ski resorts. Would not consider doing Enduro on them, let alone real DH, do not recommend. Do recommend for a winter bike. Only a maybe for XC, would be fine on some flat short courses during our summer series, but with long descents I wouldn't, definitely not for the whiskey off road this spring. I'm about 165lbs.

After a season of all mountain riding my floators developed play at the pins between the two surfaces, so the rotors got "loose" and there would be a loud clank whenever I started braking. Went to the XT ice rotors on that bike and haven't looked back.


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## xblitzkriegx (Jul 29, 2016)

i dont think your comparison is realistic or relevant.

youre comparing a wheelset that has around four to 5 extra pounds of rotating mass including tubes and tires, compared to a tubeless 27.5 or 29er setup. thats A LOT of extra rotating mass.

also, lets be real guys. enduro and gravity riders are using ice rotors because they have shimano brakes, centerline rotos because they have sram brakes, or whatever other brand has matching rotors. Sam Hill's bike has 203 centerlines front and rear. im pretty sure if they can slow him down from 40+mph, an Ai2 can do the same so long as you dont drag your brakes constantly like a heathen.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

xblitzkriegx said:


> i dont think your comparison is realistic or relevant.
> 
> youre comparing a wheelset that has around four to 5 extra pounds of rotating mass including tubes and tires, compared to a tubeless 27.5 or 29er setup. thats A LOT of extra rotating mass.
> 
> also, lets be real guys. enduro and gravity riders are using ice rotors because they have shimano brakes, centerline rotos because they have sram brakes, or whatever other brand has matching rotors. Sam Hill's bike has 203 centerlines front and rear. im pretty sure if they can slow him down from 40+mph, an Ai2 can do the same so long as you dont drag your brakes constantly like a heathen.


Looking at some pics of the World Cup DH bikes from last season...some of the rotors they are running look really minimalistic. The riders not sponsored by Sram or Shimano actually look like they are running Ashima (or similar companies with lightweight rotors) on their bikes.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

xblitzkriegx said:


> i dont think your comparison is realistic or relevant.
> 
> youre comparing a wheelset that has around four to 5 extra pounds of rotating mass including tubes and tires, compared to a tubeless 27.5 or 29er setup. thats A LOT of extra rotating mass.
> 
> also, lets be real guys. enduro and gravity riders are using ice rotors because they have shimano brakes, centerline rotos because they have sram brakes, or whatever other brand has matching rotors. Sam Hill's bike has 203 centerlines front and rear. im pretty sure if they can slow him down from 40+mph, an Ai2 can do the same so long as you dont drag your brakes constantly like a heathen.


To control your speed, you have to use your brakes, there's no option here. They heat up much faster than something with more surface area. These aren't the only brakes or rotors I've used BTW. These fat carbon rims and the tires are comparable to freeride/DH setups as far as rotating mass. Simply not braking as much=running into a tree or off a cliff. For flat XC, ok, for enduro, don't kid yourself.


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## alexbn921 (Mar 31, 2009)

xblitzkriegx said:


> i dont think your comparison is realistic or relevant.
> 
> youre comparing a wheelset that has around four to 5 extra pounds of rotating mass including tubes and tires, compared to a tubeless 27.5 or 29er setup. thats A LOT of extra rotating mass.
> 
> also, lets be real guys. enduro and gravity riders are using ice rotors because they have shimano brakes, centerline rotos because they have sram brakes, or whatever other brand has matching rotors. Sam Hill's bike has 203 centerlines front and rear. im pretty sure if they can slow him down from 40+mph, an Ai2 can do the same so long as you dont drag your brakes constantly like a heathen.


Wow. Like everything else there is compromises and drawbacks to every brake setup. These rotors simply do not have the mass to dissipate large amounts of energy. They also don't have the sweep area so the heat is even more concentrated. All in all they work at there intended purpose, but don't offer enough performance to earn a place on my XC bike. Having tried most rotors on the market, the ice tech just seem offer everything I want from a rotor and i'll deal with the 20 grams.

FYI sSam is testing 220mm rotors because riders want them.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Like anything else...you tailor your bike to your needs. I'm 140lbs and my XC bike is under 20lbs. Why would I not go for some weight savings when I can? At least for me...the Ai2's are no worse than the RT-86 I had before.

If I was 240lbs...then I probably wouldn't be using them.


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