# Cracked Head Tube - Please Tell Me there's Hope!



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

:madman: Nooooooooo!

Pictures say a thousand words, so here are a few to describe my agony:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikesusangray/BrokenBike

After asking here about a Rewel ti frame with a 1 1/4 head tube and potentially stuck cups, I got some good advice - and went down to a local parts store with a free work area. I inteded to remove the cups from the 1 1/4 headset then press in a headset reducer to be able to run a 1 1/8 threadless headset.

The cups came out just fine. The problems started when I started trying to wedge in the 1 1/4 -> 1 1/8 reducer. The under side of the head tube was very tight - infact, I probably should have called it a day then a there, gone home, carefully sanded down the reducer. But I got it in without anything bad happening. The upper side of the head tube was just as tight - and slightly ovalized, too. I managed to get the reducer in, and it was going straight - but I was twisting the press waaaaaaay too hard. About two milimeters to go and a crack opened up right along the side of the original weld line.

Sigh. My heart was thudding and the sweat was trickling down my forehead. It was one of those times when I just KNEW I was doing something incredibly stupid, but I didn't stop.

I know a frame builder who works part time at the parts store, and I'll talk to him Monday. I also talked to a local welder who loves bikes. He isn't set up to weld titanium, particularly in such a tight spot, but he had a look and said he thought I have a chance. He offered to help me mill down the reducer then glue it into tube, said he thinks it would be fine.

He's not a bike mech, though, so I'm a little leary, particularly since the reducer cup is only 1.5 cms long.

I'm thinking that maybe I could get a ring milled with that exact diameter and glue it over the head tube, then glue in the reducer. May the two layers together would do the trick.

What do you guys think? Do I have any options left?


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

no good doctor jones


----------



## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

No bueno.


----------



## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Thats a bummer. No matter what you decide, I would not trust it to be repaired by anyone who does not have a lot of experience working with titanium *and* building frames.


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

It appears to me that the actual head tube is seamed tubing....at least that's the way it looks in the picture of the inside of the tube. I don't know that I would take a chance at having it welded or repaired. If welded they would need to ream or machine where the weld penetrated so you could get a headset cup pressed back in and the force of the headset cup being pressed back in is probably going to cause it to crack in the same place again.


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Replacing the head tube may be an option. Possible it could be cut out and the top tube and down tube cleaned up and neatly mitered to fit a new head tube. There maybe a welder out there that would attempt it but my guess is it would be expensive.

I actually had a head tube replaced on a high end old school steel frame by one of the countries premier frame builders and it turned out great.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

gm1230126 said:


> It appears to me that the actual head tube is seamed tubing....at least that's the way it looks in the picture of the inside of the tube. I don't know that I would take a chance at having it welded or repaired. If welded they would need to ream or machine where the weld penetrated so you could get a headset cup pressed back in and the force of the headset cup being pressed back in is probably going to cause it to crack in the same place again.


First, thanks again for the helpful information in your PM. I have followed your advice and contacted the companies in question. I'm not sure what my spending limit on this is, but I'm willing to spend money to have this fixed. I know I'm dumb, but I'm still not going to let this frame get away without a fight.

BTW, I have also contacted Rewel, the original manufacturer: from what I've read in Italian and German forums they seem to be everybody's first stop for economical non-guarantee ti repairs, no matter what the problem or manufacturer. They're actually not all that far from where I live in Switzerland, either. (It's a 5 hour drive.) I have an address in the US, too, so we'll see what makes the most sense.

Second, yeah, you see right. Look at this shot with the magnifier glass:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikesusangray/BrokenBike/photo#5138723434170122098

If you look at this shot, the split is - as far as I can tell both from the pictures and my eyeballs - actually open only about one third of the way down to the head tube hole. The rest of the line - which extends all the way to the bottom of the head tube - is the right side of the seam where the head tube is welded together.

Here's what I'm kind of hoping:

Because this is a 1 1/4 tube, *I don't need to have a headset cup right next to the weld.* Since I want to put in a 1 1/8 headset I actually need to fill 1/8" of space between the wall and a hypothetical new headset. I that could mean that I get spacer (i.e. reduction ring) milled so that it would slide in *over *a new weld.

Sigh. At least, that's what I would like someone to tell me anyway - it would be a sort of modification of what the welder said yesterday.


----------



## Welsh Dave (Jul 26, 2005)

There's a similar thread on a UK roadie forum at the moment regarding Litespeed: Several VERY badly cracked head tubes (the integrated headset type).

Litespeed removes the entire headtube, then replaces it with a standard (non-integrated) headtube. They use a very accurate milling machine.

So it CAN be done, but it requires skill and time (which both cost money).
I guess the answer depends on whether you decide it's economical for Rewel to repair your particular frame.

[EDIT]
Here's the thread from Bike Radar , just to show you what CAN be repaired (at a cost).


----------



## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

that can be fixed... the only problem is the Ti. but that should still be a tig or mig welder. here is my easton alu frame, where the head tube cracked in 2 spots. good as new. i didnt do the weld, a buddy of mine with a special machine that dose those type of welds.


----------



## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

The crack should/will stop at the hole where the top tube connects. A common practice to stop cracks in material is to drill a tiny hole at the end of the crack, it basically stops the path of travel. (hope that was clear). A good Ti welder should be able to put a weld on the outside and then vgroove the crack on the inside and lay a small bead there. The top of the inside could then be machined/filed down to allow a headset cup to be installed.


----------



## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*How about a sleeve?*

Seeing that it is going to be a commuter just sleeve the inside of the head tube down to 1 1/8'. I can`t recommend what type of material or adheasive to use but it seems to be the cheap, fast solution. Thats what I would do but what do I know?
Jeff


----------



## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

*great idea!*



jeff said:


> Seeing that it is going to be a commuter just sleeve the inside of the head tube down to 1 1/8'. I can`t recommend what type of material or adheasive to use but it seems to be the cheap, fast solution. Thats what I would do but what do I know?
> Jeff


That should work fine, a full length sleeve. I think steel, aluminum or Ti would all work. It could be pressed in and I don't think any adhesive would be needed.:thumbsup:


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

Looks like a seam welded head tube, and it naturally split on the seam. It also looks like the head tube was not reamed out very well. 

The proper fix is to have the head tube replaced by someone who knows how to do it. Anything else will probably allow the crack to eventually propagate around the head-top tube weld. At the same time, the ID can be set for a 1-1/8 cup.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

itsdoable said:


> Looks like a seam welded head tube, and it naturally split on the seam. It also looks like the head tube was not reamed out very well.
> 
> The proper fix is to have the head tube replaced by someone who knows how to do it. Anything else will probably allow the crack to eventually propagate around the head-top tube weld. At the same time, the ID can be set for a 1-1/8 cup.


Hmm. That's a good point. It would certainly be a permanent and very elegant solution. The question is whether I would have to sell the farm to get it done ... (So to speak. Don't actually have a farm, and I don't one to sell any of my bikes, nor even my wife or children.)

Have to say I like the sound of the full length sleeve thing. Ideally, I'd like to combine it with a weld fix like broomhandle shows.* Can anyone tell me whether someone makes sleeves of this length, diameter and thickness, or where one can have them made?*


----------



## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

not to sidetrack the thread, but what size are the headtubes on the Manitou bikes that always crack?...the sleeve idea could work on those too....Even if they are 1 1/8" they could be reduced to 1"...not ideal but it could save a bike


----------



## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

you just need to find somebody who knows metal working. in my shot, you can see the original welds, and the repair. and the welds look the same. you probably dont even need a sleeve. if you know anybody that builds special car parts or anything, or any manufacturing. ask them... but that Ti subject might be sensitive.


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

stan4bikes said:


> not to sidetrack the thread, but what size are the headtubes on the Manitou bikes that always crack?...the sleeve idea could work on those too....Even if they are 1 1/8" they could be reduced to 1"...not ideal but it could save a bike


Many builders internally and externally sleeve seat tubes so I'm surprised this solution hasn;t come up before. Downsize sleeving does save the frame but raises a fork problem though. You need a smaller steer tube or fork and headset.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

broomhandle said:


> you just need to find somebody who knows metal working. in my shot, you can see the original welds, and the repair. and the welds look the same. you probably dont even need a sleeve. if you know anybody that builds special car parts or anything, or any manufacturing. ask them... but that Ti subject might be sensitive.


Unfortunately, I don't know anyone - *unless* - hey!!

I just realized that a very good friend in a nearby city is a *jewler.* Makes like, you know, rings and stuff. Metal. Gold, silver, platinum, plutonium, whatever. He extremely good too - and while I was googling aroung, I noticed that lots of jewlers make titanium stuff. I wonder if he could help me out. We haven't seen eachother for a couple years now, so I'll call him tomorrow - if he could, he'd do it for free and probably throw in lunch too.

Otherwise, I'll just be working my way through every ti joint I can find. I looking in particular around the airport, since planes have extensive ti stuff and therepair guys need to be able to work with it.

However, whatever else happens, I definitely want a sleeve. Entirely apart from the damage I caused, this is a 1 1/4 frame with an ovalization problem. A sleeve - inserted properly (and I'm not quite sure how to do that yet - ought to solve the ovalization problem, get me down to 1 1/8 and protect what seems to be a weak joint from further wear and tear. What's not to love?

Easy: where do I get a sleeve?? Hm.


----------



## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

If the frame is of significance to you, the only viable solution is to replace the head tube.

The head tube will have to be mechanically removed, the frame fixtured, and the tubes remitered to fit the new head tube.

You will lose some length in the effective top tube, conservatively about 10mm, but the frame will be better than new.

Of importance will be the composition of the original frame material, (3/2.5, 6/4, or CP), as the replacement headtube needs to be sourced of the same material.

Please search out a professional frame builder, as this is beyond the "buddy with a welder and a big toolbox" repair.

Cost should run you around 400 bucks.

cheers,

rody


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

mikesusangray said:


> Unfortunately, I don't know anyone - *unless* - hey!!
> 
> I just realized that a very good friend in a nearby city is a *jewler.* Makes like, you know, rings and stuff. Metal. Gold, silver, platinum, plutonium, whatever. He extremely good too - and while I was googling aroung, I noticed that lots of jewlers make titanium stuff. I wonder if he could help me out. We haven't seen eachother for a couple years now, so I'll call him tomorrow - if he could, he'd do it for free and probably throw in lunch too.
> 
> ...


Don't loose heart.... send emails or call the following and ask if they can do it, If they can't ask them for a reference:
Lasug AG in Thun
Carsten Pohland Geschäftsleitung Phone: 0041-41 340 33 48


----------



## gm1230126 (Nov 4, 2005)

Rody said:


> If the frame is of significance to you, the only viable solution is to replace the head tube.
> 
> The head tube will have to be mechanically removed, the frame fixtured, and the tubes remitered to fit the new head tube.
> 
> ...


Rody, you're right on my steel frame repair was 380. Mine was a down tube fillet at that head tube that didn't penetrate all the way through.


----------



## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

mikesusangray said:


> Unfortunately, I don't know anyone - *unless* - hey!!
> 
> I just realized that a very good friend in a nearby city is a *jewler.* Makes like, you know, rings and stuff. Metal. Gold, silver, platinum, plutonium, whatever. He extremely good too - and while I was googling aroung, I noticed that lots of jewlers make titanium stuff. I wonder if he could help me out. We haven't seen eachother for a couple years now, so I'll call him tomorrow - if he could, he'd do it for free and probably throw in lunch too.


he should know if he builds.. metal is metal. and he should know how to braze, if not weld. 
what you need is a welder. or maybe that guy knows a guy. anyways its a great start.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi guys!

First, thanks for al your input. This has been a terrific education.

Just wanted to give an update. I took the frame to show to a BSG I've known for about ten years and who is also does the welding work for a custom frame company here in Zurich. He isn't equiped to do ti but he has experience with it and told me I'd be OK getting the split welded by a non-bike ti person and adding a slightly longer reducer at each end. (He didn't think a full length sleeve would be necessary.) He did tell me I have to have the tube reamed properly before I insert the reducer - seemed to think this could be done with a dremel. (I received similar advice from one of the US frame places I contacted online - however, one thing that has struck me in this process is the wildly conflicting advice I've received from folks who clearly know their stuff.)

I've talked with a number of specialist ti welders and sent the pictures to those who were interested in the project. (My goldsmith friend drew a blank, though it was nice to catch up!) Tomorrow I'll pick a welder and take my frame over to have the job done.

At this point I seem to be looking at something around $100 for the welding job. Longer term - in a year or so, we might even go to Italy on vacation - I'd like to look at dropping the frame at Rewel's plant for a complete new head tube, but I think the $100 fixer-upper should keep the bike rolling for a while.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

mikesusangray said:


> around $100 for the welding


That strikes me as very cheap, quite a bit less than i would have guessed for a Ti repair. Rumpfy had his Ti Tomac repaired and while he didn't say an amount, he did mention it was pricey. Keep us posted with progress and pics, please. It's been educational for me also.

P.G.


----------



## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

pinguwin said:


> Rumpfy had his Ti Tomac repaired and while he didn't say an amount, he did mention it was pricey.
> P.G.


he told me, and yes it was pricey.

close to what Rody quoted, and that wasn't to replace a headtube...


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

Another piece of info about pricing: I talked with the people from Rewel yesterday. (That's www.rewel.com.) The friendly guy on the phone confirmed that it's one of their 90s frames. (He said it would originally have had a spacer to run a 1 1/8 fork; the spacer must have gone AWOL sometime in the frame's history.)

He looked over the pictures carefully and told me he would be happy to weld it up for 60-80 EUR. He was also happy to give me some tips about having it fixed locally, telling me I don't need to worry too much about the precise ti type. He told me to stear away form grade 5, but that a fix using grades 9, 4 or 2 would be fine, grade 9 (3/2.5) being standard.

This fits with everything I've read in German speaking forums about Rewel, BTW.

If I want to have him do it, he did caution me about postage between Switzerland and Italy, since things tend to get hopelessly tangled in customs if you send from non-EU countries. Bringing it by a for a "day patient" job was definitely an option.


----------



## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

mikesusangray said:


> caution me about postage between Switzerland and Italy...non-EU countries


You mean there are possible hang up with Poste Italiane...surely you jest. Can't be. Impossible.

Pinguwin

P.S. For those who haven't dealt with the Italian post office, it has nothing to do with non-EU


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

Grin. I lived in Sicily for a few years a as a kid - a land where the mail always arrived. Unless it didn't.

However, the customs thing is a real issue on its own ON TOP of the postal issues. If the doganieri decide they think you're pulling a fast one, that frame might never see the light of day.


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

mikesusangray said:


> ...I talked with the people from Rewel....He said it would originally have had a spacer to run a 1 1/8 fork; the spacer must have gone AWOL sometime in the frame's history....


Interesting, Litespeed use to put an aluminium insert into thier Ti head-tubes, I think it was easier to ream. When I was looking at using a 1-1/4" ActionTec fork, I thought about removing the spacer since the ID looked to be very close - but Litespeed recommended against that since the ID, although close, was slightly smaller, as it was never meant to take a 1-1/4 headset. I wonder if someone did just that to the Rewel frame?


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

itsdoable said:


> Interesting, Litespeed use to put an aluminium insert into thier Ti head-tubes, I think it was easier to ream. When I was looking at using a 1-1/4" ActionTec fork, I thought about removing the spacer since the ID looked to be very close - but Litespeed recommended against that since the ID, although close, was slightly smaller, as it was never meant to take a 1-1/4 headset. I wonder if someone did just that to the Rewel frame?


That's exactly what the Rewel guy told me - though he didn't say *why.* Your hypothesis makes sense, though.

I'm guessing that the frame's previous owner put the frame under considerable strain when he put in 1 1/4" headset (he *said* that he'd had an extremely difficult time getting it in). When I showed up with my 1 1/4 spacer and started maching, I gave it the ol' coup de grace.

I'll spend a while skinnying up the next spacer before I try again!


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

*Fixed!*

Well.

A place outside of Zürich that does specialist welding offered to help me out. They do a lot of stainless steel welding, laser stuff and are set up to do ti. (A big titanium company recommended that I contact them with my problem.) They also recently did a couple thousand aluminum frames for a company called Flyer that makes battery assisted bicycles, so the whole thing sounded good.

The owner, who was curious about my plight, told me to give him 50 Swiss Franks for the job, then he said he'd just do it for free. He was very friendly and spent a lot of time explaining what was going on and showing me his equipment. Very proud of his shop.

He told me before he began that it wasn't going to be a pretty weld (his welding rods were a bit thick) but that it would be a strong, safe bond. Here's the outcome. The inside is ground out for a reducer ring, but I'll have a bike shop prep the top before I try to put it in.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikesusangray/FixedFrame

What do you guys think?? Pretty it ain't, but can I declare it fixed?


----------



## Sasquatchcycles (Jul 19, 2007)

fixxored.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

Here it is reamed out all so I can put in the reducer sleeve:

http://picasaweb.google.com/mikesusangray/FixedFrameReamed


----------



## itsdoable (Jan 6, 2004)

You still need to "face" it. 

Or am I spouting the obvious?


----------



## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

i have a cracked head tube too on one of my bikes. cracked in three places. it's a bummer because it's a pretty rare frame. it's a Nishiki Alien ACX with the Richard Cunningham Mantis bolted on rear end. the first photo is Jeff's ACX at First Flight.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

itsdoable said:


> You still need to "face" it.
> 
> Or am I spouting the obvious?


Well, considering you're talking to somebody cabable of doing the damage it took to get this thread started, you're being very kind! But, yes, I'm definitely going to have it faced. This story has been complex in that - besides talking to you all - I've been in four different businesses:

1) The bike parts store (they're gigantic and have their own free work area and sell every conceivable bike part except for frames). That's where I did the damage, and it's where the frame builder works who gave me some advice. (If he'd been there to begin with, I probably would have got some help from him and never wrecked the thing!)
2) The specialist welder. He fixed the torn seam - for free.
3) Another welding & general metal shop in Zürich. The guy there is a biker and a very good metals guy, though he doesn't weld ti. He did the reaming work and milled the spacer down to size. That cost me about $40, which I was happy to pay; in fact, I addd a $10 tip. He didn't have a facing tool, though so that brings me to:
4) The LBS where I'll get the tube faced.


----------



## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

You need to keep a constant eye on that repair. I personally would not trust it to last. Replace the HT or better yet sell it if you can. You may have damaged the TT at this point now. This doesn't look good. Just my 2 cents.

I did do Ti frames too. That is crap tubing to begin with and it is impossible to get it clean on the inside to do that repair.


----------



## richieb (Oct 21, 2004)

Hey...that's exactly the same cracking that the head tube on my Alien ACX had!





Veloculture said:


> i have a cracked head tube too on one of my bikes. cracked in three places. it's a bummer because it's a pretty rare frame. it's a Nishiki Alien ACX with the Richard Cunningham Mantis bolted on rear end. the first photo is Jeff's ACX at First Flight.


----------



## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

those can be fixed. when you weld it makes it as good as new. especially because nothing is being welded onto it. if the crack is bad, you usually drill a hole to stop the crack. and then zip it up.

its just not going to look the same. and you dont want to file down the weld because it wont be as strong.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

geckocycles said:


> You need to keep a constant eye on that repair. I personally would not trust it to last. Replace the HT or better yet sell it if you can. You may have damaged the TT at this point now. This doesn't look good. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> I did do Ti frames too. That is crap tubing to begin with and it is impossible to get it clean on the inside to do that repair.


Ugh. Don't particularly like hearing that! What's giving you the bad warning signs here? What I've been told to do is to glue in the milled reducer cup with loctite 638 when I set the new headset and fork.

Obviously, I don't like hearing a negative opinion. OTOH, my wife and daughter are going to be riding this thing (albeit in town, not on trails!), and I'd rather not have the frame self-destruct while they're riding it ...

Mike


----------



## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

mikesusangray said:


> Ugh. Don't particularly like hearing that! What's giving you the bad warning signs here? What I've been told to do is to glue in the milled reducer cup with loctite 638 when I set the new headset and fork.
> 
> Obviously, I don't like hearing a negative opinion. OTOH, my wife and daughter are going to be riding this thing (albeit in town, not on trails!), and I'd rather not have the frame self-destruct while they're riding it ...
> 
> Mike


Several things going on here. 
1) Without being able to clean both sides of the tube you can't get a quality weld.
2) The weld on the outside looks to be contaminated. Is it the same color as the other welds?
3) The crack is not welded completly or drilled out at the end. The Crack will propagate FOR SURE. Looks like it may even go past the vent hole. 
4) The repair is touching the HT. I would think that the HT is damaged now too.
5) There are some questions that need to be asked to the repair shop. 
Did he purge the frame when he welded it?
Did he ultrasonic clean the HT area?
Did he use the same grade rod as the parent metal?
Why was it free? Does he question his ability to do such a repair or guarantee his work and the consequences of a failure?

You do have some things going on in your favor though.
1) It is getting a reducing sleeve in it.
2) It will not be ridden hard and on streets by your daughter and wife. I assume they are not abusive and it has fat tires and they don't weight 300 lbs.
3) If it does fail, not much will probably happen. What I mean, if you keep an eye on it and make sure the crack doesn't go into the TT it will probably just make some creaking noises. I would doubt that the HT will just fall off or something that would cause you to crash.

At this point, outside of replacing the HT and possibly cutting back the TT an DT depending on what I would find when the HT is removed, Put a long sleeve in that goes well past the vent hole. This is hard to do being the HT is not machined that far down. The HT would have to be milled out on a mill to over 1.25" it looks like or more. You do not want a press fit for your reducer. Plus 0 minus .001 on the sleeve. Lock tight will break down eventually with much more of a gap. I personaly would keep the reducer to -.0005 and grease it in. It will expand tight when you press in the headset. The sleeve will probably come out when you remove the headset unless you ream the reducer to +.0002 over the Headset dia. I would also taper the ID of the reducer end that is inside the HT.

This is all too much work for average Joe. 
Replace the HT. I don't believe these frames are that expensive to replace and it may cost more to replace the HT than the frame is worth. I have no idea what the cost of a new frame is though. I have seen Russian Ty frames here for less than $400 new. Not bikes made in Russia but Russian made seamed tubing.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

Hmm - thanks for shooting straight. Let me put down what I know:

About the shop. They're one of the big specialist welders around, and they have a strong track record both with bikes and titanium (though not with ti bikes). Last year they did a couple thousand frames (alu, not ti) for a company making electric bikes; however, they do a lot of other stuff from specialty car parts to fancy bathroom fixtures, almost always in very big batches. The owner basically told me I couldn't afford him, but that he likes bikes and he'd have fun giving me a hand.

I asked him very specifically about cleaning, grade, contamination, back purging issues (I've been reading!), to which he said he knew exactly what the dangers were and that he would take care of me just fine.

Specifics: I'm not quite sure what he used to clean the area - he sprayed something, swabbed something, sprayed some more, dunked it something, then I *think* he had held some kind of blower thing on it (not sure what that was). I can't remember which grade he used, but I had checked that with Rewel and told him the grades they approved for the frame. (They said the frame is 3.5/2.) For the welding he had various tubes running into various places - that's back-purging, right? (I couldn't see exactly what was going where.) When he was done, he and his head welder spent a long time - maybe three minutes - tapping on things and looking at the weld through a magnifying glass.

Discoloration: Afterwards there was a very light bluish tinge around the weld and the weld itself had a slighty golden color. The owner told me that was OK (some other color wasn't, apparently) and that it would come off with a steel brush - which it did. The weld is now the exact same color as the rest of the tube. 

There were a couple things that concerned me a little: the owner *was* a bit cavalier about the whole thing. If there were a ti frame builder around, I would defintely rather have paid to have them take it extremely seriously. However, he seemed completely confident in the work he did. The other thing was that he didn't drill the rip. I had expected that he would, but I forgot to ask.

* * * * 

Anyway, unless I have serious reason to fear for the safety of my wife or daughter when using the bike, I'll leave it as it is and just see how it holds up. If need be, I have the option of taking it to Rewel to let them fix it - and it looks like they would do a highly professional job on it. But since they're more difficult to reach than I originally thought, I'm planning on waiting until I'm in the area - on vacation, for instance.


----------



## geckocycles (Sep 3, 2006)

mikesusangray said:


> Hmm - thanks for shooting straight. Let me put down what I know:
> 
> About the shop. They're one of the big specialist welders around, and they have a strong track record both with bikes and titanium (though not with ti bikes). Last year they did a couple thousand frames (alu, not ti) for a company making electric bikes; however, they do a lot of other stuff from specialty car parts to fancy bathroom fixtures, almost always in very big batches. The owner basically told me I couldn't afford him, but that he likes bikes and he'd have fun giving me a hand.
> 
> ...


There is no fear of injury to your family. Just be careful of the press fits of the reducer and the head set. If they both get pressed in then it is doubling the stress on the HT. The headset doesn't need to be extremely tight, Just barely press the two pieces in with very little force. Just a little more than hand press. You should be fine.


----------



## mikesusangray (Nov 29, 2007)

geckocycles said:


> There is no fear of injury to your family. Just be careful of the press fits of the reducer and the head set. If they both get pressed in then it is doubling the stress on the HT. The headset doesn't need to be extremely tight, Just barely press the two pieces in with very little force. Just a little more than hand press. You should be fine.


That's what I have in mind - and thanks very much for thinking though this. These forums are awesome!


----------

