# FIM eMTB World Cup Action



## KingOfOrd (Feb 19, 2005)

Looks kind of fun if you ask me.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)




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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

In my opinion, this video , clearly shows ebikes are not dirt bikes. I bet even the kids 50cc class would spank every person in this video. 


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mtbbiker said:


> In my opinion, this video , clearly shows ebikes are not dirt bikes. I bet even the kids 50cc class would spank every person in this video.


For sure, and every person in this video would spank any world class xc racer. IMHO that shows that they're also clearly not bicycles.


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## PurpleMtnSlayer (Jun 11, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> For sure, and every person in this video would spank any world class xc racer. IMHO that shows that they're also clearly not bicycles.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

mtbbiker said:


> In my opinion, this video , clearly shows ebikes are not dirt bikes. I bet even the kids 50cc class would spank every person in this video.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


agreed

Ebikes belong racing on a technical short track XC coarse. They had an OK set up at Sea Otter. It was not that technical really, but you had to be able to get down a short rock staircase.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> For sure, and every person in this video would spank any world class xc racer. IMHO that shows that they're also clearly not bicycles.




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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

shreddr said:


>


How you determined that to be a negative statement is beyond me. I was only responding to another post that pointed out how they're not like motorcycles, to which I agreed.

I've nothing against e-bikes but that does look like kind of a boring race to me.


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## driver bob (Oct 12, 2005)

J.B. Weld said:


> I've nothing against e-bikes but that does look like kind of a boring race to me.


Yep, got it in a nutshell there. That "race" was terrible.


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## shreddr (Oct 10, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> For sure, and every person in this video would spank any world class xc racer. IMHO that shows that they're also clearly not bicycles.


This is not true, at one of the places I ride my ebike, a top MTB racer lives (UCI ranking #70 something). I rode one particularly rollie section 5 times in a row to try and minimize my time, and if I would have gone any faster I would have been clipping trees. I looked up his time later on Strava for the same section and he beat me by 4 minutes in a 20 minute section. World class is just that!


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

The best part of that video is at 22:00 when the commentators are musing about the chubby guy on the 15kw ebikes "special technique" coming out of the corners without pedaling :lol:


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Good thing for the full face helmets! 

LOL!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Embarrassing.

So you can pedal these bikes, but clearly the riders are throttling, so why bother pedaling?

I could see riding an electric moto on that track, but who would willingly pedal an ebike on a moto track?

Not only does that seem totally lame, but it has nothing to do with mountain biking.

Yup, embarrassing.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

The crowd seemed to love it


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

sfgiantsfan said:


> The crowd seemed to love it


They were drunk, probably got free beer as an enticement to watch the silliness.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Don't think I've ever seen so much seated pedaling.


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## stiksandstones (Oct 7, 2004)

terrible


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Personally, I was embarrassed for Marco Melandri.


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## rockerc (Nov 22, 2010)

scatterbrained said:


> Personally, I was embarrassed for Marco Melandri.


I saw the name! Yikes! His statuesque gf probably won't be holding his helmet and handing off water bottles for him at this one!

This is about as exciting and exhilarating as slug racing. Begs the question of "why?"


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## richardjohnson (Sep 12, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> They were drunk, probably got free beer as an enticement to watch the silliness.


This would be much better if they had to have a beer per lap. It also needs a joker line, where you have to do something that actually plays to the ebikes strengths, like climb a big hill, or recharge or something.

This is the future by the way. Olympics 2032, you'll see and you will all be remembering this. Mark it on your calendars.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

While it's fine and well to have such an event, let's not confuse it with the necessary athleticism and skill required for biking. 

For having motors, these riders were very slow. Wow...


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## richardjohnson (Sep 12, 2016)

Crankout said:


> While it's fine and well to have such an event, let's not confuse it with the necessary athleticism and skill required for biking.
> 
> For having motors, these riders were very slow. Wow...


I recall back in the day there was a group of people that pulled some pros into a race at a motorcross track like this and it was also very boring and these were pro riders in their peak. Can't recall what or where the race occurred and the googles they do nothing.


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## MNSnoPro (Mar 1, 2016)

Reading some of these posts make me chuckle. How do you think the first "mountain bikers" were looked at by traditional cyclists? I'm sure it was the same response that many of you have here. 

I'm not an E-bike rider but these things aren't going away. You can shake your finger, resist, ridicule, whatever but this is a new form of recreation and it will continue to evolve. I'd even bet traditional non-assist bikes might benefit from whats learned in production and racing of e-bikes.

What I don't understand is why does the cycling community have to reject other forms of cycling/recreation so much? Road against MTB, EMTB against MTB. I don't get it.... I enjoy riding ATV's and Snowmobiles too and folks in these groups lack the superiority complex I see in the cycling community. It's just weird....


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

MNSnoPro said:


> I enjoy riding ATV's and Snowmobiles too and folks in these groups lack the superiority complex I see in the cycling community. It's just weird....


Not taking a side on the matter, but it is a simple fact that many MX riders look down on ATV riders. Many also (rightfully in this area) look at them as being a major cause of blanket motorized use bans that ended up screwing them out of trail access that they had enjoyed for many years before ATVs became popular and the trails simply got blown out and trashed in short order while the users left the MX riders holding the bag as far as upkeep, maintenance and illegal riding.

There are definitely parallels to be drawn there.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

MNSnoPro said:


> How do you think the first "mountain bikers" were looked at by traditional cyclists?


Mostly with curiosity. I think the biggest sentiment of this thread is that the course wasn't appropriate for those bikes and made them look kind of silly.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

MNSnoPro said:


> I'm not an E-bike rider but these things aren't going away. You can shake your finger, resist, ridicule, whatever but this is a new form of recreation and it will continue to evolve. I'd even bet traditional non-assist bikes might benefit from whats learned in production and racing of e-bikes.


They already have with brakes, drive train and suspension components.

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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Not taking a side on the matter, but it is a simple fact that many MX riders look down on ATV riders. Many also (rightfully in this area) look at them as being a major cause of blanket motorized use bans that ended up screwing them out of trail access that they had enjoyed for many years before ATVs became popular and the trails simply got blown out and trashed in short order while the users left the MX riders holding the bag as far as upkeep, maintenance and illegal riding.
> 
> There are definitely parallels to be drawn there.


There's also the inverse where MX riders screwed themselves out of access by supporting the banning of other user groups. Once those groups were banned some of the same "allies" MXers thought they had came after them as well. With no one left to stand with them they ultimately lost access as well. So parallels there as well.

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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> There's also the inverse where MX riders screwed themselves out of access by supporting the banning of other user groups. Once those groups were banned some of the same "allies" MXers thought they had came after them as well. With no one left to stand with them they ultimately lost access as well. So parallels there as well.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


Not how it happened around here.

Also, hikers didn't ally with bikers in this area throughout the formative years of the sport and well beyond (it's better now). Can't recall seeing any bans on hiking. And mountain bikers have gained and kept near universal access over the same period strictly on our own, with no help from motorized groups at all. And now we're going to lose it because we refuse to reverse course completely regarding one of our strongest access arguments (being non-motorized)?

Sure, if you say so...


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Not how it happened around here.
> 
> Also, hikers didn't ally with bikers in this area throughout the formative years of the sport and well beyond (it's better now). Can't recall seeing any bans on hiking. And mountain bikers have gained and kept near universal access over the same period strictly on our own, with no help from motorized groups at all. And now we're going to lose it because we refuse to reverse course completely regarding one of our strongest access arguments (being non-motorized)?
> 
> Sure, if you say so...


Just curious, how many NEMBA trails run through a NPS managed property? USFS?

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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Just curious, how many NEMBA trails run through a NPS managed property? USFS?


I don't have a number, but in general, we don't have much federal land.
Mainly that would be stuff in the White and Green Mountain National Forests; the majority of trails though are on local and state lands, with a fair bit of private property mixed in too.

As far as NPS, the only place in all of New England is Acadia in Maine. So, I guess I do have a number. Zero.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> I don't have a number, but in general, we don't have much federal land.
> Mainly that would be stuff in the White and Green Mountain National Forests; the majority of trails though are on local and state lands, with a fair bit of private property mixed in too.


That's going to potentially make for some fun conversations I imagine. Especially federally, potentially on state and local if they take guidance from federal, assuming the USFS followis suit.

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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Assumptions on top of assumptions.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Assumptions on top of assumptions.


Meh, more like not being an ostrich. One thing many on here said would never happen has come to pass. It's sister organization is probably not far behind it. Once that happens it opens the doors to a lot of other opportunities. I understand why you would be fearful of it happening though.

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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Meh, more like not being an ostrich. One thing many on here said would never happen has come to pass. It's sister organization is probably not far behind it. Once that happens it opens the doors to a lot of other opportunities. I understand why you would be fearful of it happening though.


Do you? 
Please, explain. Try not to assume too much and put words in my mouth as usual though, so you don't end up looking all silly and clueless again.

To help you out, make sure you keep in mind that I'm not against e-bike access, and am also strongly for expanding motorized access, as in my house, we tend to really enjoy the combination of dirt and motors. As I've said 1000 times before of course...but please, gon on and 'splain me about this "fear" you imagine I have.

You internet know-it-alls are a funny sort...my son and I are heading out for ride.
I'll be back to laugh at you later.


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## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

slapheadmofo said:


> Do you?
> Please, explain. Try not to assume too much and put words in my mouth as usual though, so you don't end up looking all silly and clueless again.
> 
> To help you out, make sure you keep in mind that I'm not against e-bike access, and am also strongly for expanding motorized access, as in my house, we tend to really enjoy the combination of dirt and motors. As I've said 1000 times before of course...but please, gon on and 'splain me about this "fear" you imagine I have.
> ...


I'm not putting words in your mouth. Fear is fear whether acknowledged or not. Your refusal to see where access is headed is due in part to what it will do to trail access in your area due to NEMBA using e-bikes as the proverbial whipping boy when it gets there.

Nice moto, even if it is a bit of a red herring.

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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

More emtb racing.

And the winner is......... again, the guy with the biggest motor! Never saw that coming.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Harryman said:


> More emtb racing.
> 
> And the winner is......... again, the guy with the biggest motor! Never saw that coming.


Bah, that was retarded. The UCI held an e-bike world cup using class 1 e-bikes only on a XC course. That was much better. More along the lines of what e-biking is all about.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

MNSnoPro said:


> Reading some of these posts make me chuckle. How do you think the first "mountain bikers" were looked at by traditional cyclists? I'm sure it was the same response that many of you have here.
> 
> I'm not an E-bike rider but these things aren't going away. You can shake your finger, resist, ridicule, whatever but this is a new form of recreation and it will continue to evolve. I'd even bet traditional non-assist bikes might benefit from whats learned in production and racing of e-bikes.
> 
> What I don't understand is why does the cycling community have to reject other forms of cycling/recreation so much? Road against MTB, EMTB against MTB. I don't get it.... I enjoy riding ATV's and Snowmobiles too and folks in these groups lack the superiority complex I see in the cycling community. It's just weird....


It's because they have motors, road bikes don't, mountain bikes don't.

ATV's and snowmobiles rarely use the same trails at the same time. I doubt anyone will claim that a snowmobile and ATV look exactly the same just one is unnaturally faster.


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## hikerdave (Mar 8, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> Mostly with curiosity. I think the biggest sentiment of this thread is that the course wasn't appropriate for those bikes and made them look kind of silly.


That's about the lamest motorsport video I've ever seen. If I'd seen that before I bought my eBike for commuting I would have gone with the CRF250L I was also considering.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

scatterbrained said:


> Bah, that was retarded. The UCI held an e-bike world cup using class 1 e-bikes only on a XC course. That was much better. More along the lines of what e-biking is all about.


They required EU spec emtbs actually, not class 1. Under the new US class 1 definition, you can use anything with pedals as long as it's got a software limit for a nominal 750w and 20mph, and requires you to spin the cranks. Peak power can be as high as you'd like. Which sounds like way more fun to me.


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## scatterbrained (Mar 11, 2008)

Harryman said:


> They required EU spec emtbs actually, not class 1. Under the new US class 1 definition, you can use anything with pedals as long as it's got a software limit for a nominal 750w and 20mph, and requires you to spin the cranks. Peak power can be as high as you'd like. Which sounds like way more fun to me.


Actually, as I read it the max power for class 1 has to be less than 750w (1hp), with power cut out at 20mph. I know my Levo has a decal that states 250w. I think I saw somewhere that they can deliver a max of 530w, but it was a random forum post somewhere. I know that for how I ride 40% is more than enough, but I've seen some rather hefty fellows who would certainly benefit from the extra grunt.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

scatterbrained said:


> Actually, as I read it the max power for class 1 has to be less than 750w (1hp), with power cut out at 20mph. I know my Levo has a decal that states 250w. I think I saw somewhere that they can deliver a max of 530w, but it was a random forum post somewhere. I know that for how I ride 40% is more than enough, but I've seen some rather hefty fellows who would certainly benefit from the extra grunt.


The dept of interior's definition of class 1 is more lax than previous versions used by the states. Which if the Department of agriculture follows their lead will be the majority of trails in the US. They don't require any manufacturer certifications or testing like in the EU. So, if you have a "legal" setting on your controller, or just say you do, and some sort of PAS system, you're good to go. That's not going unnoticed by those who prefer fast electric bikes more powerful than EU emtbs.

Levos peak generally at 700+.


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## figofspee (Jul 19, 2018)

scatterbrained said:


> Actually, as I read it the max power for class 1 has to be less than 750w (1hp), with power cut out at 20mph. I know my Levo has a decal that states 250w. I think I saw somewhere that they can deliver a max of 530w, but it was a random forum post somewhere. I know that for how I ride 40% is more than enough, but I've seen some rather hefty fellows who would certainly benefit from the extra grunt.


https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/tested-turbo-levo-watt-output-surprising-results.14452/

The Levo has gotten more powerful since 2017. This is why the MTBR rules of only talking about "low power" mainstream eBikes is silly.

The definition of a motor vehicle states that any vehicle that can go over 20 miles an hour under its own power is a MV. Since a class 3 ebike is using pedal assist it can go to 28 miles an hour and still be considered a bicycle under federal law.


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## mtbbiker (Apr 8, 2004)

Harryman said:


> The dept of interior's definition of class 1 is more lax than previous versions used by the states. Which if the Department of agriculture follows their lead will be the majority of trails in the US. They don't require any manufacturer certifications or testing like in the EU. So, if you have a "legal" setting on your controller, or just say you do, and some sort of PAS system, you're good to go. That's not going unnoticed by those who prefer fast electric bikes more powerful than EU emtbs.
> 
> Levos peak generally at 700+.


I have a feeling when the dust settles, they will go with Ca. (AB 1096) definition of ebikes which I believe over 15 states have already adopted. All classes are the same except the motor wattage is limited to 750watts for all 3 classes.

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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

mtbbiker said:


> I have a feeling when the dust settles, they will go with Ca. (AB 1096) definition of ebikes which I believe over 15 states have already adopted. All classes are the same except the motor wattage is limited to 750watts for all 3 classes.


While the definitions of what is an ebike is the same, the Class 1-3 system isn't exactly the same in all of the states it's been adopted in regards to access. Which is interesting. Motor wattage isn't limited to 750 by the way, peak can be anything, the motor manufacturer simply has to claim it's 750w, presumably nominal. Unlike the EU specs, there's no clarification.

If you read the Interior secretary's notice, he refers to the CPSA definition of an ebike. I really doubt they'll reverse that and use a non fed definition as the basis at this point.


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