# 10-96 '' Mental Subject '' ready for heat treat....



## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Time to start thinkin' about a color.......
I might leave it naked.
I think the future owner is going all white components.
RTW.


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## BikeMk (Mar 2, 2004)

The bright welds and machined pieces stand out against the dulled tubes in a cool, different way. I don't know if heat treating will change that. The bike looks sweet.


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

I'd go for a high gloss or even metallic red or green if it were to have all white components.


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

ferget red or green, I'd go gloss black for all white components! I'd love to do a build like that myself, but that constitutes a lot more money than I'd be able to spend . ..


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## dd13 (Oct 6, 2005)

sorry if i missed this in another post,but any reason he is going with rim brakes?i second the gloss green,or maybe a gloss blue


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## free rider (Nov 14, 2005)

haha, those dropouts look sick


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## dan wask (May 25, 2006)

For some reason those dropouts look scary. It's probably because they're space kind of far back from the frame.


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## Rolex Jr. (Aug 13, 2005)

It has rim brakes because its running a BMX rear hub. Don't paint it black, everyone has a black bike. Paint it something bright! Or leave it Raw, that would be sick!


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Rolex Jr. said:


> It has rim brakes because its running a BMX rear hub. Don't paint it black, everyone has a black bike. Paint it something bright! Or leave it Raw, that would be sick!


I'm gonna let you pick the color.
Whatever color you say will be it.

I have been looking at it, in a raw state most of the day. I feel that a " works " finish is only for bighit, or M3's, but ya know what, the welds on this frame look p!ssed off, and I'm thinking color would only p!ss it off some more. Let me know.
I just can't picture it with white only components.

RTW.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

dan wask said:


> For some reason those dropouts look scary. It's probably because they're space kind of far back from the frame.


Those pushed back d/o's are proven, and I'm a really good welder.
Never let innovation scare you.
Peace.
RTW.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

Dude thats amazing, I like the raw alot. You could also do something that DOB uses alot and do a "transparent" color. Something like a Candy Red would look really mean, and the welds would show up through the paint. Or you could do something glow in the dark, that would be so sick!
http://www.dobermannbikes.com/hires/hrframegreenclear.html
Thats that transparent color I was talking about (although its not red)


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## R1D3R (Jun 4, 2005)

I think a light blue or light green would look good with white parts.


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## xKREDx (Aug 8, 2006)

Blue.....


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## Rolex Jr. (Aug 13, 2005)

I'm not sure what colors you can do. If anything is possible i'd like a color similar to the FBM Stairmasters. If you can only do intense colors leaving the front of the frame "works" and then fading to orange just on the seatstays, chainstays, and dropouts like the redline would be my choice. If neither of those is an option then baby blue would be my third.


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

ahaha, I just last week painted my steelhead like that last redline frame, though the blue fades more gradually, and does so almost at the seattube.


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## J-dogg (Aug 7, 2006)

damn dude that thing is so sick!!!! all white components would look cool on a green frame like candy apple over raw so it's light, but noticeable. or ox blood red over raw that would be sick with the white components. white and raw just don't flow together imo.


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

trans brown like a root beer brown w/ white components.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

rickthewelder said:


> Those pushed back d/o's are proven, and I'm a really good welder.
> Never let innovation scare you.
> Peace.
> RTW.


Ok how about thoes 2 huge ass dents on the inside of the seatstys ! 
They look like crimps froma vise  Now that's scary !!


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## Epschoenly (Jan 25, 2006)

Yah, that was puzzling me too.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Ok how about thoes 2 huge ass dents on the inside of the seatstys !
> They look like crimps froma vise  Now that's scary !!


They are dimples from the round die I use to form my stays with. I use a hydraulic pipe bender. In the structural sense, they make absolutely no difference. Below are a couple on the 10-74 rear. It gets hucked daily by a real deal rider, its proven.
I don't order the parts for my frames, I make them all by hand.
You obviously have problems with my work, and thats ok. It really is.
I understand.
Rick.


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## Sparkyrad (Feb 3, 2005)

*Seat stays are darn strong...!!!!*

I have another frame that Rick built custom just for me. I am 6 foot 2, 250 pounds and my seat stays have yet to flex, bend or break....Rick is an awesome frame builder and knows what he is doing. I would think the years and years he has of welding experience would be proof enough, but his frames speak for themselves...

Keep up the great work and striving for something new and innovative...No cookie cutters here!


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

Problems with your work is totally understandable whenever you're turning out a product looking like that....

Those seatstays are friggin hideous, and thats being nice about it...


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

rickthewelder said:


> They are dimples from the round die I use to form my stays with. I use a hydraulic pipe bender. In the structural sense, they make absolutely no difference. Below are a couple on the 10-74 rear. It gets hucked daily by a real deal rider, its proven.
> I don't order the parts for my frames, I make them all by hand.
> You obviously have problems with my work, and thats ok. It really is.
> I understand.
> Rick.


I have NO problems with you or your work Rick , this is just your perception .

If your useing a hydrlic bender I might suggest useing a internal wiper die so you dont get "dimples " and your stays look more formed without dimples or ripples .

Personlly the "dimples" just look like a big ole dents , from a customers stadpoint I might see how they could consider that frame a blem . They really arnt placed to help tire clearence and apear to be a mistake ? 
Customers who order custom bikes can be very picky , that's all .


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## InnovateorDie (Sep 25, 2006)

damn that looks tasty. I was thinking maybe fluorescent orange like prison inmate jumpsuit orange but the raw would look sick too.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

A Grove said:


> Problems with your work is totally understandable whenever you're turning out a product looking like that....
> 
> Those seatstays are friggin hideous, and thats being nice about it...


What the crap do you know about building frames? have you ever bent a seatstay? Rick knows what hes doing and does dang good work. show some respect.


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## BikeMk (Mar 2, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> blah blah blah...


Didn't your mother ever tell you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"?

Seriously, Brad, you act really cool most of the time, and then you act like a total a$$. If you are genuinely concerned about how someone else is doing things and you want to be constructive, act like a professional. PM them with your "professional" suggestions. I swear, you loose more business by acting like a petty foo' on teh internet than you would if five RTW's went into business making custom frames full time.


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## Rolex Jr. (Aug 13, 2005)

A Grove said:


> Problems with your work is totally understandable whenever you're turning out a product looking like that....
> 
> Those seatstays are friggin hideous, and thats being nice about it...


Good thing its not your bike then! I'm stoked to ride this frame. Who else is going to give me the ability to run a BMX freecoaster with 26" and rim brakes. I don't mind the dents at all, but even if I did it won't matter when i'm fakie bunnyhopping stair sets! WORD to OSW


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

A Grove said:


> Problems with your work is totally understandable whenever you're turning out a product looking like that....
> 
> Those seatstays are friggin hideous, and thats being nice about it...


Thanks for being nice, I appreciate your opinion.
I think the stays look rugged, and industrial.
Maybe this frame is more your speed, eh ?
Thanks again,
RTW.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

Not shabby, but i still prefer my own frames. Is that cromo?


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

A Grove said:


> Not shabby, but i still prefer my own frames. Is that cromo?


Nope,
Aluminum. But these are.........
I just welded them up for a dude that makes stuff for the oil industry. I get $ 75.00 each for them and they only take 20 minutes apiece to do.
He also makes frame building jigs.

Rick.


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## Vinny A (Oct 8, 2006)

To all you haters out there, chill. Theres nothing wrong with breaking out of the mold, making something new and being individual. Rick has a different style of doing things than most people do and that makes his work awesome, hes not just another frame builder who makes his frames like everyone else. Even if you dont like his designs you cant deny his welds are f'in amazing and seam less.

Remember innovation is good, if people didnt break the mold once in a while there would be no progression.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

I'm going to go ahead and say your MIG welding? and aluminum...blahh. Not exactly my favorite, but to every man his own.


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## xray (May 5, 2005)

BikeMk said:


> Seriously, Brad, you act really cool most of the time... *no need for the whole post again*


Agreed. I have thought the same way for ahwile... just too lazy to write it.

As for the bike... the drop's are awesome, they seem a little overkill in size (could be different in real life), but the idea is sweet.

Really nice work... :thumbsup:


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## trevorh (Jul 31, 2006)

Do I smell a.... WELD OFF?


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

A Grove said:


> I'm going to go ahead and say your MIG welding? and aluminum...blahh. Not exactly my favorite, but to every man his own.


Well then, I'm going to go ahead and say you don't know anything about welding ?
If you can't tell a TIG bead from a MIG bead, you should'nt post about any bead.
And I'll say you don't like aluminum welding because you aint worth a sh!t at it.
Dude, sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove it.
Post your bikes here for your own thread, and quit using mine for publicity.
Fongu matz, fongu !
RTW.


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

rickthewelder said:


> Well then, I'm going to go ahead and say you don't know anything about welding ?
> If you can't tell a TIG bead from a MIG bead, you should'nt post about any bead.
> And I'll say you don't like aluminum welding because you aint worth a sh!t at it.
> Dude, sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove it.
> ...


haha, werd for you ta' herd mang... 

Just gotta ask, hey, A Grove, as in "Grove Innovations", as in, used to do the Eastern Woods Research??? Or am I way off here???


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## Sparkyrad (Feb 3, 2005)

*What's up with you guys?*

Thanks for being nice, I appreciate your opinion.
I think the stays look rugged, and industrial.
Maybe this frame is more your speed, eh ?
Thanks again,
RTW.

I love this frame! It is the best XC HT ride I have ever ridden. I also love it because it is a one off...No one else has one like it. No cookie cutters here.

Mr Grove, I used to want to get one of your bikes years ago because I considered you to be local, a mere 20 minutes from my house. But I am glad I held off and went elsewhere...Why does everyone need to put Rick down and question his work.

Evil4Bc, this in not the first time you have done this...I remember the last fight you two had.

Seriously - there is a difference between constructive criticism and just plain putting someone down.

Rick - Keep up the great work buddy!


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## bubbrubb (Jun 10, 2004)

gotta love the interweb drama.

Some people need to grow up... imagine meeting people in real life and acting like that?


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## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

Lol, this is comedy. Eh I'm pretty sure Rick can notice these guys' angles. The fact that they're threatened by Rick's skills. If they weren't and had a concern with his direction or choice of methods, they would've chose their words differently. Instead they disrespect like some heffers. "Oh girl I can't believe she thought she could wear those pant with large ass of hers."

Definetly a great piece of work Rick.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

rickthewelder said:


> Well then, I'm going to go ahead and say you don't know anything about welding ?
> If you can't tell a TIG bead from a MIG bead, you should'nt post about any bead.
> And I'll say you don't like aluminum welding because you aint worth a sh!t at it.
> Dude, sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool, than to open it and prove it.
> ...


uhmm..



agrove said:


> I'm going to go ahead and say your MIG welding? and aluminum...blahh. Not exactly my favorite, but to every man his own.


That statement/question must have been taken wrong...

1. I am 15 years old, Bill Grove is my father. I did nothing of 'bashing' your welds. In fact, I dont have a problem with your frames at all other than the bends on the rear stays. I did not say I was a good welder, in fact, I hardly know how to weld.

2. The comment about aluminum was not to imply WELDING aluminum. But more-or-less, aluminum itself, is not my prefered frame choice.

Sparkyrad - we are starting to get back into the buisness(me and my father that is) and are doing some frames now.

BikeSATORI - yes, grove as in groveinnovations, although I am Bill Grove's son.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

A Grove said:


> Problems with your work is totally understandable whenever you're turning out a product looking like that....
> 
> Those seatstays are friggin hideous, and thats being nice about it...


Nice !

Grove Inovations was a HUGE inspration to me when I was starting out !
Nice to her the voice of reson on MTBR once and a wile !!


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## scabrider (Oct 3, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> Ok how about thoes 2 huge ass dents on the inside of the seatstys !
> They look like crimps froma vise  Now that's scary !!


i agree...


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

Evil4bc said:


> https://forums.mtbr.com/images/editor/color.gif
> https://forums.mtbr.com/images/editor/color.gifNice !
> 
> Grove Inovations was a HUGE inspration to me when I was starting out !
> Nice to her the voice of reson on MTBR once and a wile !!


i dont know if that was a sarcastic remark or not, but I should apollogize for being so hard on you before rick. It wasnt really my place to say that, at least so harshly that is. Your frames are definitally unique and have their own sense of style, but i do think that if you got rid of those kinks in the seatstays, the bike would be a lot more clean.


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## rickthewelder (Sep 16, 2005)

A Grove said:


> i dont know if that was a sarcastic remark or not, but I should apollogize for being so hard on you before rick. It wasnt really my place to say that, at least so harshly that is. Your frames are definitally unique and have their own sense of style, but i do think that if you got rid of those kinks in the seatstays, the bike would be a lot more clean.


Fair enough, and I accept your apology.
And if you really are Bill's son, he has done a good job with you. I would love to weld one of his designs.
For 15, you are well beyond your years.
Peace.

Rick.


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## A Grove (Nov 12, 2006)

rickthewelder said:


> Fair enough, and I accept your apology.
> And if you really are Bill's son, he has done a good job with you. I would love to weld one of his designs.
> For 15, you are well beyond your years.
> Peace.
> ...


Well, I am really Aaron Grove. And he really is my father. Hell, I'm currently riding a NOS '93 hardcore  but we are currently building some frames to try and get the fun kicked off. How exactly are you bending your stays anyhow?


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## bubbrubb (Jun 10, 2004)

he does it with his fingers. I was there, I saw it all...


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## alant (Nov 17, 2005)

wow. great publicity you're giving your old man . you sound like a jealous little biatch. I'm sure your old man would beat your ass if you he knew how little respect you have.:nono:


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## dirtyharry (Jun 27, 2006)

this thread went downhill faster then some of my older ones .. . 


I dunno rick, the frame is growing on me! I'll have to see it built up before I make my final opinion, 

its just with all the annoyance that has come out of my bruiser's TT height, I developed an aversion to anything with similar TT height . . .


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## austinb89 (Nov 6, 2004)

dude rick how did u get soo dam good at welding, that frame looks amazing. i would love to have that frame, or something similiar wow. how did u get started in welding its always been a dream profession of mine


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

...


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

ScaryJerry said:


> Rick, if I'm not mistaken you work/worked for Intense, right?
> 
> Remind me to call my inside rep tomorrow and notify him that I will be dropping the Intense brand from my store after seeing what a pompus fool you are. Not only are your frames crap (you seriously don't know how to properly bend tubing?), your attitude is as well. I've never seen someone so unable to handle criticism.
> 
> ...


That was rather bold now wasn't it?

I thought Rick has been rather modest through-out most of these e-flame sessions going on here through out time, and we all know this industry could use a bit more modesty that's for sure. 

As for A Grove, he is the 15 year old son of a famous builder with a keyboard in hand and a quick tongue to boot. 
Rick has gained the respect of several users on here, and they saw someone dissing him, so they jumped.

I think you are being completely ridiculous associating this directly with Intense Bicycles as well. 
I'm completely unbiased in this entire situation, but I thought your comment on being "pompous" was rather laughable and ironic. 
Please do not add anymore flames to the fire here, we are all just having fun with bikes, although apparently dollar signs have seemingly blinded some of us.


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## Rolex Jr. (Aug 13, 2005)

ScaryJerry said:


> Rick, if I'm not mistaken you work/worked for Intense, right?
> 
> Remind me to call my inside rep tomorrow and notify him that I will be dropping the Intense brand from my store after seeing what a pompus fool you are. Not only are your frames crap (you seriously don't know how to properly bend tubing?), your attitude is as well. I've never seen someone so unable to handle criticism.
> 
> ...


Yeah Rick is pompous. Thats why he hooks kids up with their dream custom builds and angles, as well as donating frames to shreds in need. You are the dumbass. don't comment on dirtjump bikes when you have trouble hopping the curb in front of your house.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

BikeMk said:


> Didn't your mother ever tell you, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"?


Nope missed that one growing up , Mom told me if your gonna through stones sharpen them first !:thumbsup:


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

awesome job rick! haters need to STFU...


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

ScaryJerry said:


> Rick, if I'm not mistaken you work/worked for Intense, right?
> 
> Remind me to call my inside rep tomorrow and notify him that I will be dropping the Intense brand from my store after seeing what a pompus fool you are. Not only are your frames crap (you seriously don't know how to properly bend tubing?), your attitude is as well. I've never seen someone so unable to handle criticism.
> 
> ...


Jerry
I'm not trying to add fuel to any fire hear but YES we would love to bring your shop in as a dealer , I will even drive down hand deliver your first order and make a custom POP display for your shop .:thumbsup: I very much appreciate the gesture Thank you !

I have been bighting my tung bout some things in this very skewed thread here .
The word innovation has been tossed around very loosely regarding these bikes , I have seen NO innovation on any of the bikes pictured . By innovation i mean a original design not seen on countless other production bicycles frames by numerous builders .

Wile A Grove does chime in here it really isn't mentioned that Aaron's Father did INNOVATE most of the current established bmx and mtb standards still used today .
Shall i mention the grove 3pc crank , how about the sloped top-tube ala seat-tube extension ? Grove Innovations , EWR and Brave bicycles were all ahead of their time and had countless innovations never seen in that relm of design in the bicycle industry prior to their orignal designs .

Aaron's father is a custom frame builder in the truest sense of the word . A "true" custom frame builder doesn't just weld tubes together they design their own bicycles , miter the tubes , machine custom parts , weld the frame and do countless hours of hand finish work to produce something that should be classified more as functional art . Anything less than this is just welding tubes together and if your calling yourself a "custom" frame builder then your giving us all a bad name :nono:

Rolex Jr. you wanna talk about hooking kids up with their dream bikes take a look at WCH new custom bike , that right there should end all discussion of what the current level of "custom" bicycle is around these parts .


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## pavement_hurts (May 13, 2006)

cmon guys, this sh1tfest needs to end. stop being a d1ck everyone, please. this has gotten ridiculous. rick makes some nice rides, and so does ANY OTHER CUSTOM BIKE BUILDER. scaryjerry, your comments were not needed at all. any other comments not related to the thread are also not needed. the bicycle hasn't really evolved for years. a few bends in a tube doesn't make it something completely different. it's still a bicycle. two wheels, check. handlebars? check. chain? yep. rick's frames may not be groundbreaking, but who else is going to make you custom dropouts shaped like a skull? i have yet to see (that i remember offhand) another bike on here like that. JUST CHILL FOLKS. i suggest the thread be LOCKED.


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## buckoW (Feb 7, 2007)

I think 15 inch chainstays on 26" wheels is pretty progressive/innovative.


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## mack-a-nator (Apr 26, 2006)

SMASHED ON HIM!!!!!!!!!!!! bravo...just remember haters motivate...looks sick rick


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

BikeSATORI said:


> That was rather bold now wasn't it?
> 
> I thought Rick has been rather modest through-out most of these e-flame sessions going on here through out time, and we all know this industry could use a bit more modesty that's for sure.
> 
> ...


exactly, could not have said it better myself in anyway. rick has always been a stand up guy who has handled all the questions and criticism very well!! he has done a lot for this forum in general and i can not recall one time he tried to start anything negative.

ScaryJerry- what has Rick said to A Grove or anyone else that has made him seem pompus or a jerk at all? he actually has said some pretty great things to A Grove along with one negative which was understandable IMO...the fact that you would directly connect some interweb BS with Intense Cycles as a whole says a lot about your level of maturity and personality. Rick is a great guy! this side project is something he does for fun and the fact that you and others come in here to play the flame game and get on him is idiotic to say the least!! if you carried out what you said about dropping Intense, it would certainly be your loss. i don't know you and im merely basing these comments on what i know about you from this forum, but come on...


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

dang all this about a couple of dimples. those welds more then make up for those any way. i have a couple dents in one of my chainstays (from grinds) and i think it kinda makes my bike look sexy.

and to scaryjerry, your an idiot if you would really pull a product because of the crap talking people do on the interweb.


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## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

ScaryJerry said:


> Rick, if I'm not mistaken you work/worked for Intense, right?
> 
> Remind me to call my inside rep tomorrow and notify him that I will be dropping the Intense brand from my store after seeing what a pompus fool you are. Not only are your frames crap (you seriously don't know how to properly bend tubing?), your attitude is as well. I've never seen someone so unable to handle criticism.
> Others on this board should be ashamed of themselves for assaulting A Grove like that as well. You disgust me.
> On a side note, hey Brad, looks like I'm about to have some free retail space in my shop soon after the blowout sale where I unload my leftover Intense product. Does Nemesis Project need a dealer in Petaluma, CA?


You and Brad deserve each other.... What's the name of your shop so I can tell eveyone I know to avoid it?


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## snaky69 (Mar 8, 2005)

sittingduck said:


> You and Brad deserve each other.... What's the name of your shop so I can tell eveyone I know to avoid it?


*sigh*

Alright everyone, move on, there's nothing else to see. This has gotten way out of hand.

1. Yes, there are dents on the seatstays
2. Yes, they are pretty big
3. Yes, someone paying a lot for a frame will expect it to be perfect or pretty damn near perfect

BUT! If the customer doesn't mind, if he's happy with the end product and likes the way it rides, then great! The dents don't matter when the customer's happy.

FWIW, Brad isn't an ass, I've talked to him on the phone a good many times and he never came off like an ass to me. Polite talkative and very friendly guy, and he takes a lot of pride in his work.

FWIW # 2, I have nothing agaisnt Rick's work, I dig those dropouts and regardless of the tubes, it must be a fun thing to manual a 15'' CS 26'' bike.

Can we move on and wait for the pics with some colour?

P.S., this thread does deserve locking


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

snaky69 said:


> *sigh*
> 
> Alright everyone, move on, there's nothing else to see. This has gotten way out of hand.
> 
> ...


amen brotha, ye speaketh tha truth.


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## xray (May 5, 2005)

sittingduck said:


> You and Brad deserve each other.... What's the name of your shop so I can tell eveyone I know to avoid it?


Agreed. I also pray ScarryJerry does NOT become a Canadian in the future, we don't need him up here.

And Brad... you may make nice frames but in my view (and it seems others think the same) you're a complete jackass. You say "I'm not trying to add fuel to any fire hear but..." and continue to write 3 short paragraphs adding fuel to the fire.

What in the fvck does A Grove's father have to do with this? You talk about a "true" custom frame maker and then reference yourself... you are ridiculous. Definition of an asshat.

Anyways, Rick, your work is awesome. You've been handling this BS quite well, and I suggest you ignore it and go on with your life/frame building. :thumbsup:

PS: Snaky69, maybe he (Brad) isn't an ass in real-life but he sure doesn't improve his image (nor his company's) with his posts.


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## aggiebiker (Apr 18, 2006)

lets all stop talkin crap on people we have never actualy met. lil jerks.


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## xray (May 5, 2005)

aggiebiker said:


> lets all stop talkin crap on people we have never actualy met. lil jerks.


PM'ing you so i don't continue the derailing of the thread...


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## goldinjohn (Oct 25, 2006)

Come on guys, what is the deal here.
first of all - little Grove you are out of order, rick was too nice saying "your father did good job with you" i am not so sure he did. :nono: 

Second - Brad this is not the first time i see you throw all this mud at Rick for some reason, i does not strike me you do it for the quality of his work alone, i'm not so sure yours is better :nono: 

Rick i like the way you keep your cool with with the "little people" :thumbsup: 

All that not to say i like this frame, "not my cup of tea" but i have a lot of respect for you Rick


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