# New wheels - tires



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

First, thanks to all for the welcoming 

I'm looking to build a new wheel-set for two reasons; 
we want true tubeless 
have heard that the FR 6.1Ds are pretty soft.

What we have:
Phil Wood hubs 
Swiss FR 61D Rims
32 mm wide
have found both 595 and 620 gms as the weight for a 26" 36 hole
WTB Race XC Mutano 2.4 Racer front and back

Our first rides out at McDowel Competition park in Fountain Hills AZ, was a mystical experience. Perfect tails with hard-packed earth with a bit of rock here and there. We rode like the wind, rode so fast that we ran away from our chase photographer on his single. Our first ride in our own back yard was quite different, a hard dose of reality. The loose gravely trails proved very difficult to manage and we had constant issues losing traction on climbs. There are of course many things at work here (including learning to ride ), this post will focus on wheels and tires.

Suggesting that we buy a 29er one week after we bought this bike would NOT be a welcome suggestion 

So here is my proposed build

Phil Wood hubs
Mavic Ex 823 Disc
UST
655 grams
Can't find a width, but recommended tire range is 2.3 - 3.00
Tires ?? If you have a suggestion for this terrain, please chime in. The LBS is real excited about small block, but we ride Nevengals on Stan's and they work very well. We're running them at Stan's recommended pressure, (what I think most people would consider very low pressure), 18 psi (130 lb rider) and 29 lbs (205 lb rider).

Anyone using these rims?
Anyone find another UST 26" rim?
Tire suggestions for this terrain?
What pressure do you ride in loose?
Anyone got a 29er for sale? [Please, please, no. Tell us "no" even if you know otherwise.... ;p] at least for a few months...

Cheers!


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Yes, the 29r we owned had incredible grip, all up though, our 26 ECDM is no slacker for finding grip. 

Before getting wound up on tubliss or tire choice, get some saddle time on the bike. In real loose stuff like you described, placement of the stokers derriere is important. Add to that, climbing loose rock or gravel requires not spinning the tire, as a team you must be steady on the pedals. If the tires are sinking into the gravel, you must work as a team 10X more together and efficient.

FWIW, we run Panaracer Rampages with good results. They are faster on dirt than road, wear reasonably well and we run pretty high pressures to limit squirm under cornering or vagueness. 55 rear 50 front.

Also consider how important suspension setup is on an ECDM. Normal sag percentages don't work as well as on a single bike, spring rates are critical, and we have never run lockout when we ran an RP3. The conversion to a Fos 40 and early style Fox DHX 5.0 air has given us a lot of adjustability for all sorts of varied terrain from dry and wet sand to hardpack, loose stones, even mud or wet rides.

It takes some time to understand the setup, but we often will make clickers setting changes, both front and rear, while in motion on each ride.

PK


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Everything you say fits our experience. Weight distribution is something we need some work on as well as smoothing our climbing cadence and, I'm finding, not shifting to too low a gear. 

The first motive though is flatting, or rather, not flatting  Before going tubeless, we would flat or develop a slow leak frequently. In the past several months, since going tubeless and running Stan's goo, we've had just one experience losing air, and that was because I had not refilled the Stans and the tube was dry.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

FWIW, we run Slime tubes. The weight, while important, is less important on the tandem.

PK


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

We currently run tubeless (29er) utilizing the following set up:
Velocity P35 rims (now called Blunts)
Maxxis Ardent 2.4 front
Panaracer Rampage 2.35 rear
Stans sealant and rim tape 

This set up as worked very well for us. The rims have a few dings in them, they are known to be soft, but I have not seen any issue. We run about 35-40 psi.

We used to run stans inside the the tubes on our DT Swiss 6.1? rims on our 26" tandem. The stans works to keep flats to a minimum. I think we ran closer to 50 psi. I was afraid of pinch flatting... 

I have never used UST tubeless on single bikes or tandems so I can't comment. 

I've said this before and I'll keep saying it, if you can afford it, buy Chris King rear hub. I'm sure Phil Woods would be fine, but my money is on CK (I hate pushing a bike with a busted rear hub).


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Panaracer Rampage 3.35? Now THAT's a big tire


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## ds2199 (Sep 16, 2008)

ki5ka said:


> Panaracer Rampage 3.35? Now THAT's a big tire


Typo...

If they made one, and I could squeeze it into the rear triangle, I'd do it!!


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Figured... I took a really big Gazalodi and shaved down the knobs so it would fit our Cannondale. It still hit the stays and was wearing a divot, so I took them off, but it was awesome having that big a footprint. Yes, lots of weight, but doing off trail stuff, it was cool...


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

We run the MTBTandem's Sun MTX/Chris King wheelset and 2.5 WTB Dissents. Hardpack, rocks, and loose over hardpack conditions. Heavy tires at over a kg each, but we rarely have flat issues (I won't say so I don't jinx us). We run tubes at 40psi and never have pinch-flat issues either. HD tires will help protect rims and against flats at some expense to acceleration.

But we're also a heavier team at ~360lb. I'd search out some local teams, or teams that ride the same sort of conditions.


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## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

*Made my choices*



Okayfine said:


> (snip)... I'd search out some local teams...


 That's funny right there Okayfine  We're in Yuma; even the "normal" single-track bike population is very small. I think we're the only ones doing this mountain tandem thing within a couple hundred miles. Anyone know otherwise?

Just ordered wheels and tires. Went with the Mavics and gonna put on some Conti King 2.4s. Pondered over 3 cross vs 4 cross for a few minutes and decided to stay with 4 cross. It won't be a light wheelset by any stretch, but between the tubeless and the stronger wheel, I hope it'll be bulletproof and it should actually be pretty close to the weight we're riding now.


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