# What I should do in this case, honestly comments needed.



## REYEXbike (Jan 30, 2006)

Imagine... You are a member of your local mtb club, rideing together almost all the time for years... and they are your friends also, now figure... You strat to organize one epic ride (not a race) by yourself and you invite on internet anyone who wants to join the ride, of course your club is invited too, the time past and today is the day of this epic ride, and surprisely a lot of cyclists came from many states of your country (more than 100 people) all ready to start the ride; At this time everything seem 's perfect, but when the ride begin, few seconds later, you notice the blast acceleration of your club's fellows (Not all of them, but too many), creating a big gap between them and the rest of the raiders, and every mille ahead the gap turns more bigger on distance, of course how I said before, this is not a race, so there's no explanation for this behavior of competition of your club's fellows on this kind of ride, and there's not all, these race guys start to change things like the time to go back at the next day and at the last minute change few points of the original route, pulling the group for differents ways because for them, the new route is shorter than the original and just because they want to get at home at soonest possible no matter if you (The main organizer) and the rest of the group are agree or not, just in a dictatorial way; and this thing happen every year (because you still organize this ride year after year), and sad but true, the same behavior of full competition from the same guys year after year on this ride, and all the time you heard comments from your vistor's raiders about how bad was this behavior for the image and reputation of your club and even the ride who you made it possible, given you a bad taste of mouth, when you realize how great should be to enjoy this ride for everybody but not... finally this good ride turn bad, because some people don't have any respect about the rules of timing, route, and without any rigth, change all they want without some respect to the organizer and the rest of the group, and the worst is when they take the ride like a race all the time, instead like a time to share good moments, great experiences and see it as a perfect time to start a frienship with people from other cities and places.
Those bad experiences happened to me, so at this time... really... I don't know if continue makeing this epic ride another year anymore, because the people outside my club wants to repeat the ride and my club's felows also, but those race guys of my club don't want to change his racing behavior against our guests, so that's mean the same problems at the ride again, and honestly I hate that, and the only solution is get these race guys out of the ride... but it's not easy to do that... they are my firends anyway, I really want to continue organize this ride every year but without people with bad attitude... so what I should do?

Every rider not only needs to be the best on the trail, also need to be a better human being.


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

REYEXbike said:


> Imagine...
> 
> ... so what I should do?
> 
> Every rider not only needs to be the best on the trail, also need to be a better human being.


mmm, you can still have the tour for the upcoming years. Why don´t you split the group in two categories; experts (ie your fellas and visitors racing-driven riders) and the sightseen touring group (ie fellas and visitors). I am almost sure you are not the only one in your club sharing your concerns (if you find a couple of guys, you could guide the ride with them, or ask for help for the recurrent visitors). At the end of the day, it wont be a "group riding", but it would be a more pleasant ride for most of the people.

Another option would be doing the tour more often with your fellas (no visitors), and still having once in a year the ride with all the visitors. This way your fellas won´t feel like they only have the touring ride to push their limits.

IMO it will be hard to change the attitud of your club fellas from day to night. But maybe, if you split the group they will find more fun to follow the largest group (that is the touring group).

If the reason your friends ride so hard is to show of their "skills" to the visitors, maybe they will adapt to the rules (that would be the only way of showing of)

In any case, there is not an easy way. Either decision you take, you have to be very assertive on what the rules of the visitors group ride would be.

hope it helped and good luck


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

Sad stuff to read... there are rotten apples everywhere and unfortunately sometimes those of your kind are the ones you wouldn't be close to.

Anyway...

You can still have your ride! Invite everyone who would like to go. But make sure to make CLEAR to your "racing" friends that it's more of a relaxed ride, that there will be lots of newcomers and that you will stay with the majority of the group and the route and timing will be respected, no matter what.

That thing about some having to go back early it's just a silly attitude. If they know the ride is going to be longer, they either should stick with it or comeback at their most convenient timing and location without affecting the whole bunch.

Ask a couple of your non-racing friends to go with you and guide the group. Mark those buddies or yourself as "leaders" and make them wear something disctintive, so everybody knows they have to follow the guys wearing that. Make also everyone in the ride to have clear who the leaders are.

You should also have someone at the end of the bunch taking care of the delayed riders... yeah, it's quite boring, but it must be done by someone or you'll have someone beyotching at you at the end of the ride if you don't do so.

Splitting the group in two classes is also a good idea and a good chance for your riding buddies to get their arses kicked in some good rider with low-profile appears.

The other thing to do is categorize the ride as "beginners to intermediate" ride, so nobody would call surprised to find slow people in the ride.

I hope you can sort it out and have a great ride!!
We need more people like you organizing rides!


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## REYEXbike (Jan 30, 2006)

Thank's for your comments Rito and Warp, believe me or not, that's what I did, I been traying almost everything to make everyone happy here, I'd create (how you said) two different skills groups, One of them for my racing fellas called The fast group, and the other one called general for people who wants an easy ride and people who needs an easy ride, on the begining the general group starts first to take some distance's advantage to the fast group, but the "racers" starts to complain about it, they said, No! we don't want to wait a half an hour doing nothing while the general group take advantage, I try so hard to make them understeand to follow this rule, and finally they said ok, but they did not wait the complete half an hour, they begin the ride just 10 minutes later than the general group, this thing happened year after year.
So the last year I'd change the rule, still both groups, the faster, this group (how I said to them) It's to ride free... no restrictions on maximum speed, the only restriction I made was... "This group it's only for peolpe who knows perfectly the route".
On the general group should be controled by two leads ahead and two back leads always at the end of the group, and the rule was... "No one on this group can to move forward ahead the leads".
The timing was... the fast group starts the ride 10 minutes before, and the general group starts later, well... again the fast group (racing fellas) complain about it again, they want to start at the same time like the general's, Why?... they said... Looks better if all of bunch starts as one big group. So I did not discuss that to dont'n make the situation bigger. So we start the ride as a big group, and guess... the same behavior happened.
But thats not all... Some of the racing guys choice the general group to make the ride, but milles away, forgetting the rule of do not move foward ahead the leads, they start to rebase them, and the leads just wachting how those fellas are passing them.
How you see, I can take it anymore, there's not great organization enouhg for this racers, I think, they need audience to make their moves to feel and think... "Ho, all this people can't with my expert skills, No... they can't reach my rpm's, simply I'm the best", For me that's the only reason to this behavior, or try to explain why when we finish the ride, this fellas make a list where everyone of them say... This year I been first... yea I was second, Hey don't forget me I been third... Ho My Lord!!! first... second... third... come on "It's not a race". 
Some times I said... Hey fellas, next month will be a local race on X place, go there and bring us some trophees will you... the answer: Ho no, we don't like races... What???!!!.
Believe me those words... that's true, they don't like real races, just love races against NON-RACERS vistors, for me the bottom line is... People with bad attitude and that's it, So, now you guys knows the complete history, what you think now??.

Thanks for your good comments again, get both a big hug and take care yourselfs.


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## mountainking_71 (Sep 17, 2005)

Hey Tocayo

I think i got the perfect soulution for you, this is what you need to do, what you have to do is organize a killer race for your local friends say a week before you do your esy riding, out of town oriented tour, that way your budies are going to be so damn tired that theyr not gonna wanna participate. hows that ? cool isnt it?

_" i live to ride, i ride to live'_


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

mountainking_71 said:


> Hey Tocayo
> 
> I think i got the perfect soulution for you, this is what you need to do, what you have to do is organize a killer race for your local friends say a week before you do your esy riding, out of town oriented tour, that way your budies are going to be so damn tired that theyr not gonna wanna participate. hows that ? cool isnt it?
> 
> _" i live to ride, i ride to live'_


That was exacly what I was thinking when reading ReyeXbike reply. Give those guys the race they want (and find the way to charge them for racing   j/k).

Two more suggestions:

1)Don´t organize the ride with your club, and find another riding group. It looks like your relationship with your current group is in detriment anyways.

2) Find the best racers in the country and invite them -only them- to the next ride. show your fellas what really is a racing pace so they can experience in own flesh how painful is trying to follow a guy way above your own capabilities. Some people seem to only understand the hard way.

wish you luck, you have a tought one in your hands


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> It looks like your relationship with your current group is in detriment anyways.


Yeah... those guys can't valorate your riding or organizational interest.


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## endoMaster (Aug 6, 2004)

From what I read it seems that it's time to cut the strings and organize this event on your own. These guys that are in your club are obviously out for themselves, that or they sound a bit insecure and want to elevate themselves above the other riders by demonstrating how fast they are. Regardless of which is true, they are more of a hinderance to your social event and it sounds like it is leaving a negative impression on the other riders that participated in the group ride.

You could have two groups, the fast and the social group but if this is a social ride and not a hammerfest then there really is no need for this. If these guys(the guys in your club) want to hammer the trail and not socialize then you say, "Adios Amigos I will see you when we all return to the trailhead". In my opinion a social ride is meant to enjoy the trail and get to know other riders, it's not meant as an opportunity to prove how fast or skilled you are. 

Once again, set the ride up on your own or in association with another club. Set clear guidelines for the ride, if someone chooses to break away from the group then they are on their own. By doing this without your clubs involvement then you don't have any obligation to your club, your friends(club members) have no say so on the ride pace, and if they want to leave the ride then it's their choice.


Agustin


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## REYEXbike (Jan 30, 2006)

*Next Episode... The History Continues.*



mountainking_71 said:


> Hey Tocayo
> 
> I think i got the perfect soulution for you, this is what you need to do, what you have to do is organize a killer race for your local friends say a week before you do your esy riding, out of town oriented tour, that way your budies are going to be so damn tired that theyr not gonna wanna participate. hows that ? cool isnt it?
> 
> _" i live to ride, i ride to live'_


Yea yea, this is the next episode of THE REYEX'S TOP RACERS.

Few days ago, some friends from Morelia city (Michoacan state) invited us to join the Patzcuaro's lake tour, the rules to follow, sorpriselly the same rules of my TransVolcano`s ride:
No move forward ahead the leads one of them, but additionally their own rule was... The leads have to keep a maximum speed of 20Km. an hour.
-So, almost everyone said about the rules... That's ok, they just are trying to keep the raiders in a big group all the time, that's nice "relaxing time"... but... my racing fellas said... Nop, this sh%·"/%t is not for us... will be boring... and the worst thing is stay behind the leads, we never stay on somebody else back... no, we should stay at home.

After their comments, in absolute silence, I did start to thinking a couple of ideas...
1_ My racing fellas finally got some respect for somebody else rules, no more Yes we are agree and two seconds later changing everytinhg at the ride, this time they watch the rules and realized "Better not going, this ride is not for us"; And for me this is the correct move to do all the time on this kind of rides.
2_ Also I'd remember one time when another small group of top skills riders from Morelia City, contact me to ride in my city, they wanted people with top skills to ride across the Tancitaro's mountain, The Higgest mouintain of Michoacàn state by the way, so my answer was to invatied my racing fellas to join them because they are our top skills riders and the rest of us will been short due to our low skills.
Anyway, my "R" fellas start asking me... How good those guys are?... they are faster?... So my anwer was:.. Yes, they are! and try to contact them to organize the ride at soonets possible.
The days past and my friens of Morelia contact me again, just because they never get any answer of my racing fellas to make the Tancitaro's ride to reality, so I'd start to search my fellas to talk about that, and their answers was... "Humm, The problem is the same of all of us, poor training, We are not in our better shape, You know..., last week I'd been sick... You know... ??????????

Ok let me guess, You guys don`t like boring rides... And you can`t do demanding rides for a thousend reasons... So tell me... what kind of rides you can do it well and with a smile on your face???... Really... I will like to know.

... Or perhaps this is a bad joke from you fellas?... If the answer is yes... jajajaja... good one ha!!!


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## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

REYEXbike said:


> Yea yea, this is the next episode of THE REYEX'S TOP RACERS.
> 
> Few days ago, some friends from Morelia city (Michoacan state) invited us to join the Patzcuaro's lake tour, the rules to follow, sorpriselly the same rules of my TransVolcano`s ride:
> No move forward ahead the leads one of them, but additionally their own rule was... The leads have to keep a maximum speed of 20Km. an hour.
> ...


Take my advice. It is time for you to look for a new riding group; it doesn't read you spend nice rides with your group anymore.


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## mountainking_71 (Sep 17, 2005)

Dump 'em


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## endoMaster (Aug 6, 2004)

Like I and a few other people have mentioned; it is time for a new group of riding partners.

Your friends sound like losers to me. They like to make themselves feel important at the expense of others. Yet when it is time for them to ride at the supposed advanced level that they claim to possess they back down, they can't deliver.

Ditch them and ride to have fun, I wouldn't ride with them anymore.

Agustin


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

REYEXbike said:


> Ok let me guess, You guys don`t like boring rides... And you can`t do demanding rides for a thousend reasons... So tell me... what kind of rides you can do it well and with a smile on your face???... Really... I will like to know.


Yup... like mountainking71 said: Dump'em.

BTW... seems that Michoacan has an interesting MTB scene! I'd love to ride there. A buddy of mine is currently at Lazaro Cardenas (or Petacalco, whatever) and he once looked for someone to ride with, but got no luck. But he told me there were people riding there whatsoever.

Cool! Let's spread the fever all over the country!!


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## mountainking_71 (Sep 17, 2005)

Check out these michoacano sites warp you can get an idea of the biking scene in the state
http://groups.msn.com/montainbikemoreliaclub
http://groups.msn.com/mountainking-enduroteam
http://groups.msn.com/REYEX


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## REYEXbike (Jan 30, 2006)

mountainking_71 said:


> Check out these michoacano sites warp you can get an idea of the biking scene in the state
> http://groups.msn.com/montainbikemoreliaclub
> http://groups.msn.com/mountainking-enduroteam
> http://groups.msn.com/REYEX


Thank's Tocayo for a free advertising of our Michoacan's Groups and clubes, (Mine is REYEX site), The other two are brother-web sites of Reyex, And now I like to talk about those sites, Morelia's club site was made for a good friend of mine Carlos Unda, He's join us on the TransVolcano tour since 2005 and he love this ride, he also is a great person and remarcable friend; The last site of La Piedad's Enduro team was made for my tocayo Josè Luis, but I'd never have a chance to know him in person just on web, but I'm sure is a excelent fella and a really nice person.
All these people who I'd meet on the cyber space, are fantastic and I'll try to ride with all some day.
The bottom line is... Michoacan state have beautiful forest enviroment and great people to make any mtb's ride, affortunally for all, people with bad manners and bad attitude are just the miniority (like our my club's case) and this is just a broken brick on a big wall, so this dammage brick can't make fall down the wall, so belive me, if you want to ride in our state, do it, you will not regrets, the contacts are here and nice people will be waiting for you to join your ride.

More interesting clubes I know of Mexico and I really recommends like's Morelia's and Enduro's team:
_Jalisco's: http://groups.msn.com/TERRABIKEJALISCO
_Mexico's state: http://groups.msn.com/extremersteam2001

And http://groups.msn.com/registrobike ... Made by my self too, this is a free Registration bike site, because there's not an official web site in Mexico to register our bikes like's USA, this kind of site are a very powerfull tool to try to stop the bussines of stolen bikes... how it works? easy... 
Step one: Most important... add your bike to our registration data bank (with all information of name of the owner, location, frame and susp. fork serial numbers, components, "remember all bikes are differents when you start to remplace oem parts").
Step two: Always when you have to remplace any component, custom paint, or put some extras on your bike, You have the tool (nobody have the tool to modificate your registration, just you) to do any change or modification to put your registrated bike update.
Step three: If your bike has been stolen, rigth away put your annousement on the the site with any way to contact you, this move alerts to possible buyers, and if someboby sees your bike he can contact you and both you and your contacter can find your bike, I know is just a possiblity not a fact, but better do something to nothing.
Step four: All the time when you want to buy any second hand bike, no matter who is selling the bike, search into our data bank, if his not in there buy it, if is rated like stolen, contact rapidlly his real owner, remember Today for his... tomorrow for you.

It's simple ah... but to make this site to really works, all of us who owner a bike, we have to register all the bikes we have, not matter if is a top of the line or just an cheaper bike, the bottom line is... This is your bike, and nobody else have the rigth to take it with out buy it.

Remember the site: http://groups.msn.com/registrobike

See you later guys (all of you), get my appreciation I and think after all of your interventions to my comment, I'm sure you are great fellas and nice partners, thank's again. Josè Luis. (REYEXbike).


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

REYEXbike said:


> Thank's Tocayo for a free advertising of our Michoacan's Groups and clubes, (Mine is REYEX site), The other two are brother-web sites of Reyex, And now I like to talk about those sites, Morelia's club site was made for a good friend of mine Carlos Unda, He's join us on the TransVolcano tour since 2005 and he love this ride, he also is a great person and remarcable friend; The last site of La Piedad's Enduro team was made for my tocayo Josè Luis, but I'd never have a chance to know him in person just on web, but I'm sure is a excelent fella and a really nice person.
> All these people who I'd meet on the cyber space, are fantastic and I'll try to ride with all some day.
> The bottom line is... Michoacan state have beautiful forest enviroment and great people to make any mtb's ride, affortunally for all, people with bad manners and bad attitude are just the miniority (like our my club's case) and this is just a broken brick on a big wall, so this dammage brick can't make fall down the wall, so belive me, if you want to ride in our state, do it, you will not regrets, the contacts are here and nice people will be waiting for you to join your ride.
> 
> ...


What databank/database system do you use? I feel I want to help and if the process you do is difficult I could make a web site with MySQL database for easy management of those data.


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## REYEXbike (Jan 30, 2006)

tacubaya said:


> What databank/database system do you use? I feel I want to help and if the process you do is difficult I could make a web site with MySQL database for easy management of those data.


Thank you Tacubaya, difficult... not it all, maybe because is the begining of this site, I'm not using any data base system on it, just the web tools who offers MSN's groups free service, how I did it:
_Using lists in order of A to Z, each one correspond to one fabricant of bikes, like AEON, BIANCHI, CANNONDALE......to WINDSOR (To give you an idea).
_Every visitor have to click on BANCO DE DATOS (Data Bank), Then appears down almost every fabircant by name (A - Z), Next, Search your fabricant of choice and click on it, and appears all bikes registered of that fabricant at this time (very few now, but still the process to make it bigger with more registrations).
_Now, if you want to register your bike, you must have to join this group to become a member, (this is the same free registration of all MSN's groups like REYEX, MOUNTAIN BIKE MORELIA or ENDURO TEAM),
_When you become a member, you got the tools to register your bike, send messages to our forums, upload photos and recieve important announcements from the web master (Administrador) just in case.
Rigth now it's easy, but when the time passes and the number of registrations grow up and this process becomes obsolete, for sure I'll been asking for your help, let's see whats happen, Thank's again.

Josè Luis. (REYEXbike)


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## REYEXbike (Jan 30, 2006)

*Well, here's the news after your opinions*

Hi fellows, your words shake my head and this year I did the rigth thing, last March 3rd of 2007, We rode our TransVolcano ride, 112 bikers from Aguascalientes, Queretaro, Cuenavaca, Edomex, DF, Toluca, Guadalajara, Morelia, Puerepero, Uruapan, Ixtlan, Metepec, Tocumbo and Los Reyes (my city), Shareing the trials, the pain, the feel of achivement, "The party", and many more positive feelings, and all those things I'd feel it too finally.
So, maybe you are wondering about my fellow Racers... *I'd dump'em*.

 This year, was soooo... diferent than previous years, and let me tell you, no one there miss them, esspecially me, to be honest, I'd be glad when I'd start to remeber all your opinions and words, because those words make possible this evolution, and sometimes you need opinios from outside of your circle of life, becuase into that circle, there exist a lot of factors like "FRIENDSHIP" and things like that, and those thing don't let you make a drastic move to get things better, and thats because is not easy dump friends, but with the push and help of others from outside, you can do any nessesary change to better, and thats exactly what I did, tank's guys, I hope your company next year, sincerely, Josè Luis.:thumbsup:

Here is the videos of this ride: http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=REYEXbike

Web Site: http://mx.msnusers.com/REYEX


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## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

REYEXbike said:


> Hi fellows, your words shake my head and this year I did the rigth thing, last March 3rd of 2007, We rode our TransVolcano ride, 112 bikers from Aguascalientes, Queretaro, Cuenavaca, Edomex, DF, Toluca, Guadalajara, Morelia, Puerepero, Uruapan, Ixtlan, Metepec, Tocumbo and Los Reyes (my city), Shareing the trials, the pain, the feel of achivement, "The party", and many more positive feelings, and all those things I'd feel it too finally.
> So, maybe you are wondering about my fellow Racers... *I'd dump'em*.
> 
> This year, was soooo... diferent than previous years, and let me tell you, no one there miss them, esspecially me, to be honest, I'd be glad when I'd start to remeber all your opinions and words, because those words make possible this evolution, and sometimes you need opinios from outside of your circle of life, becuase into that circle, there exist a lot of factors like "FRIENDSHIP" and things like that, and those thing don't let you make a drastic move to get things better, and thats because is not easy dump friends, but with the push and help of others from outside, you can do any nessesary change to better, and thats exactly what I did, tank's guys, I hope your company next year, sincerely, Josè Luis.:thumbsup:
> ...


Well done :thumbsup: I bet its much funner this way


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

REYEXbike said:


> Hi fellows, your words shake my head and this year I did the rigth thing, last March 3rd of 2007, We rode our TransVolcano ride, 112 bikers from Aguascalientes, Queretaro, Cuenavaca, Edomex, DF, Toluca, Guadalajara, Morelia, Puerepero, Uruapan, Ixtlan, Metepec, Tocumbo and Los Reyes (my city), Shareing the trials, the pain, the feel of achivement, "The party", and many more positive feelings, and all those things I'd feel it too finally.
> So, maybe you are wondering about my fellow Racers... *I'd dump'em*.
> 
> This year, was soooo... diferent than previous years, and let me tell you, no one there miss them, esspecially me, to be honest, I'd be glad when I'd start to remeber all your opinions and words, because those words make possible this evolution, and sometimes you need opinios from outside of your circle of life, becuase into that circle, there exist a lot of factors like "FRIENDSHIP" and things like that, and those thing don't let you make a drastic move to get things better, and thats because is not easy dump friends, but with the push and help of others from outside, you can do any nessesary change to better, and thats exactly what I did, tank's guys, I hope your company next year, sincerely, Josè Luis.:thumbsup:
> ...


Just from reading it... one can tell that it was a drastic improvement..

:thumbsup:


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## mtbgiovanny (Feb 13, 2006)

looks as a cool ride this year although very XC for my tastes. anyway should be fun to change the style of riding once in a while.


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