# Hope single speed hub or hope standard hub?



## dcurtis (Sep 5, 2007)

Does anyone know if you can run a standard hope disk QR rear hub as a single speed hub? I have a Niner Sir nine and would like to build a wheel set that would allow me to use the wheel set as either geared or single speed? Has anyone done this? Or is it even possible? I not sure if by doing this it would cause cain line problems....


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## vanilla_ninja (Dec 13, 2005)

If you get a standard SS conversion kit it contains spacers that you can place in the order you wish to get the best possible chain line. Just make sure you get a kit with many spacers in different thickness as opposed to one with only two.

If you get a Hope Pro II single speed/trials hub you won't be able to use the wheel with more than 6 different gears, as the freehub is much shorter than the one on a standard hub.

Check out Sheldon Brown for more info: http://sheldonbrown.com/singlespeed.html#hub


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

The SS hub has more points of engagement if that is of any importance. I find that to be a great feature for riding SS. As vanilla_ninja said you can get at least a 5 or 6 casette on there. Lots of trials people run a setup like that.

If you buy the Hope SS/trials hub, it comes with the spacers you need so there is no need to buy an additional conversion kit. [See photo of the SS hub with the spacers below.]










Both hubs can be converted to bolt on, or to QR if that is of any use.


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## dcurtis (Sep 5, 2007)

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate your response. I just have to make up my mind now!!!


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## dcurtis (Sep 5, 2007)

Good info.....I'm thinking I will buy the single speed and have the option of a 6 speed....


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## parkrider (Mar 7, 2008)

I have the SS version on my bike at the minute, super quick engagement and makes a beautiful noise! The only problem is the weight penalty; the standard pro2 weighs in at about 295g, the ss version comes in at about 450g because of its hefty bolts. However, if weight doesnt concern you then i'd definitely go for it, i love mine to bits!


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## refreshinglygood (Apr 15, 2006)

i love my hope hub.


It makes a great growl.


SS hub has been able to stand up to pushing a big gear, with big weight.


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## robkhoo (Jun 28, 2005)

The SS hub comes with a steel freehub body, and the geared one with an alu body, which tends to get chewed up pretty quick.


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## parkrider (Mar 7, 2008)

yup alu vs. steel body is the other difference. I ran a standard pro2 on my dh hardtail then swapped it ss before buying the ss version of the hub and i had no problem with mashing up the freehub body. To be honest the hub is designed for trials mainly, a discipline which is alot more vigorous on freehub bodies than xc, road riding or even dirt jumping, despite the easy gears which they run. Once again as i said: ss version is your best bet if weight doesnt bother you. The standard pro2 will be my next single speed hub though, i'm wanting to run it flip-flop ss with fixed gear mounted on the disc tab


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## dcurtis (Sep 5, 2007)

The weight really doesn't bother me. I do like the idea of a steel freebody. Thanks again for the great info.


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## dcurtis (Sep 5, 2007)

I used to work at Paul Component engineering...if you could get a smoking deal on Paul hubs would you go with them over the Hopes?


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## 1-bar (Jun 10, 2004)

To reaffirm a few points and to add a few extra. I have the Hope Pro IIs in SS form. I counted 48 pts of engagement and they have nice snappy feel over my C29ssmax rims which are a measley 18pts. The Hope have a beautiful and distinctive purr. When I had them built up to 355s they said they build a stronger rim due to the width of hub shell. On this build up with 355's weigh around 1750 gms for the set which is about 150 grams lighter than kings (72 pts of engagement?) or 150gm heavier than American Classics (12 pts of engagement), so they are a nice compromise in performance and weight. These hubs kick arse!


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## cchough (Apr 26, 2006)

*Converting SS to QR?*



nspace said:


> Both hubs can be converted to bolt on, or to QR if that is of any use.


Do you happen to know what parts I need to convert the SS Hub to QR? Is it expensive and more importantly, is it difficult to DIY?

Thanks,


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

Yes. All you need is a new set of QR endcaps from Hope. I got Mike at Universal Cycles to order me the end caps. Should be about $25.

You just have to pull off the caps (you can do it by hand or with a vice grip - with something like a rag to protect the vice grip from scratching the caps) and then just pop the new ones on. The Axel already in there has a smaller diameter in the middle designed to take a skewer.

I did it to my pro2 SS bolt on.










Wish I had better photos so you could see the caps. One thing to note; the package I got contained an axle too, but you do not need this. The axle was designed for a standard pro2 hub.


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## pushinpixels (Jul 4, 2007)

*Sorry for digging up an old thread*

Anyone know if it's possible to convert the Hope SS hub to a 10mm THRU axle?


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

parkrider said:


> I have the SS version on my bike at the minute, super quick engagement and makes a beautiful noise! The only problem is the weight penalty; the standard pro2 weighs in at about 295g, the ss version comes in at about 450g because of its hefty bolts. However, if weight doesnt concern you then i'd definitely go for it, i love mine to bits!


While the single may still be heavier the bolts are included in the weight. With the quick release standard freehub you still need a skewer and that weight isn't included.


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

Hope Pro2 SS rear hub w/ 5 cogs (PG990 alloy carrier)



I like the bolts, they work better for my Surly dropouts. QR would be fine for sliders though.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

pushinpixels said:


> Anyone know if it's possible to convert the Hope SS hub to a 10mm THRU axle?


I asked Hope about this a few months ago, and they said no. They claim it can only be bolt-on or standard Q/R. I ordered a set of the Q/R endcaps directly from Hope, but have not mounted them yet. It may be possible to do an easy mod to make them work with a 10mm thru axle, but I do not know for sure.

Mark


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## mauric6943 (Nov 4, 2006)

*other manuf*



vanilla_ninja said:


> If you get a Hope Pro II single speed/trials hub you won't be able to use the wheel with more than 6 different gears, as the freehub is much shorter than the one on a standard hub.


are there other manufacturers besides Hope that make SS hubs with a freehub body? Most others I see (WhiteInd, Paul, PhilW,etc) have a freewheel instead.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

mauric6943 said:


> are there other manufacturers besides Hope that make SS hubs with a freehub body? Most others I see (WhiteInd, Paul, PhilW,etc) have a freewheel instead.


American Classic
Chris King
Hadley
DMR
DT Swiss

Those are the ones I can remember


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

WTB and Profile as well, to add to the list above.


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## slide mon (Jul 18, 2005)

GreenLightGo said:


> Hope Pro2 SS rear hub w/ 5 cogs (PG990 alloy carrier)
> ...
> I like the bolts, they work better for my Surly dropouts. QR would be fine for sliders though.


Nice, what did you have to do to convert that cassette to 5 speed?

BTW, I replaced the stock bolts after stripping one:



-slide


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I think you could just stack a bunch of wide base cogs on the freehub body.


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

slide mon said:


> Nice, what did you have to do to convert that cassette to 5 speed?
> 
> BTW, I replaced the stock bolts after stripping one:
> 
> -slide


Not sure what a search would pull up, but I don't think you have to do anything special. The PG990 has the five largest cogs on one aluminum carrier and that happens to be how many cogs fit on that freehub too.

...or like pert said, you could stack thick cogs as some claim to be built for 9spd spacing. That would allow you to pick your range better, but would probably cost more for 5 cogs * $20-$30 each


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## slide mon (Jul 18, 2005)

boomn said:


> Not sure what a search would pull up, but I don't think you have to do anything special. The PG990 has the five largest cogs on one aluminum carrier and that happens to be how many cogs fit on that freehub too.
> 
> ...or like pert said, you could stack thick cogs as some claim to be built for 9spd spacing. That would allow you to pick your range better, but would probably cost more for 5 cogs * $20-$30 each


Thanks, I searched but couldn't find anything that said how many were attached and how many were floaters. Pretty sure the shimano xt has at least 6 on the carrier.

Doubt that those stacked cogs would shift as well, was thinking of a hope ss hub for my geared bike since I like better engagement of the ss hub. 36-22 up front and, hmmm, 17-30 in the back for a 10 speed. Just thinking about it...

-slide


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

slide mon said:


> Thanks, I searched but couldn't find anything that said how many were attached and how many were floaters. Pretty sure the shimano xt has at least 6 on the carrier.
> 
> Doubt that those stacked cogs would shift as well, was thinking of a hope ss hub for my geared bike since I like better engagement of the ss hub. 36-22 up front and, hmmm, 17-30 in the back for a 10 speed. Just thinking about it...
> 
> -slide


Yep XT is 6 cogs.

EDIT: mine was. I didn't realize there were two versions (32t vs. 34t ?)


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

"Thanks, I searched but couldn't find anything that said how many were attached and how many were floaters. Pretty sure the shimano xt has at least 6 on the carrier."

You should check techdocs.shimano.com. Search for M770 and you can find an exploded view with the carrier and how many cogs. One has 5 and the other has 6. 
I use the 5 with a 13 as a floater so 6 speed total.


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## MD Sleep (Apr 6, 2007)

*1x6 How mine was done*

I ride a Voodoo Wanga with a Hope Pro 2 SS hub.

I converted mine to a 6 speed after a back injury incurred while surfing. This was done using a shimano XT casette with the gears not on the spider removed. (The lowest is 17T I believe).

You also need a new larger cap to hold the casette onto the spline. I believe it is called a 12 tooth cap. (Obviously I am not a bike mechanic). Mine is Chris King.

Also, the XT rear derailer worked for this, but the SRAM did not.

Up front is a jump stop with a Spot bash guard.

The setup works so amazingly well. Shifts smooth and perfectly every time. I give all credit to The Path bike shop who put it together and dialed it in.

JC


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## dinoadventures (May 2, 2008)

GreenLightGo said:


> Hope Pro2 SS rear hub w/ 5 cogs (PG990 alloy carrier)


This is hot, but the PG990 has six cogs on the carrier, not 5. Did you cut one off? What are you doing for a shifter. The thought of a 17-34 or 32 ain't bad...


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

dinoadventures said:


> What are you doing for a shifter.


I dont think shifters are an issue: if the cassette is with 9 speed spacing, you just use a 9 speed shifter and adjust the derailer limit screws so that the derailer stays within the cassette range.


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## DiDaDunlop (Oct 22, 2005)

"I dont think shifters are an issue: if the cassette is with 9 speed spacing, you just use a 9 speed shifter and adjust the derailer limit screws so that the derailer stays within the cassette range."

second that. 

Also make sure that the first gear on your shifter is also the first gear on the carrier. That way it's never possible to accidentally shift your derailer into the rear wheel. Limit screws are first priority but as a just in case fail safe.


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

dinoadventures said:


> This is hot, but the PG990 has six cogs on the carrier, not 5. Did you cut one off? What are you doing for a shifter. The thought of a 17-34 or 32 ain't bad...


Very cool setup.


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

What is the actual (physical) difference between the regular Hope Pro II rear hub and the SS version? The freehub body is shorter and the rest of the hub is longer? Is that all (plus the engagement points). I really love the Pro II on my single speed but I have the regular version of the hub (non-SS). My thought was that, if needed, I could also use a 9-speed cassette so my wheel would be more versatile.


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## Pooh Bear (May 25, 2006)

stephen11364 said:


> What is the actual (physical) difference between the regular Hope Pro II rear hub and the SS version? The freehub body is shorter and the rest of the hub is longer? Is that all (plus the engagement points). I really love the Pro II on my single speed but I have the regular version of the hub (non-SS). My thought was that, if needed, I could also use a 9-speed cassette so my wheel would be more versatile.


Read a bit above: 
- SS/Trials hub: Steel freehub body vs. regular ProII: Aluminum body
- weight
- bolt on vs. quick release (you can change that, though)
- sound!


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## stephen11364 (Jan 31, 2004)

Pooh Bear said:


> Read a bit above:
> - SS/Trials hub: Steel freehub body vs. regular ProII: Aluminum body
> - weight
> - bolt on vs. quick release (you can change that, though)
> - sound!


Question - Can I buy / change my freehub body to a steel one? What's the sound like (louder or softer) on he SS version cause mine is loud as hell (whatever that means).


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## mauric6943 (Nov 4, 2006)

*Thanks for the info*



nspace said:


> WTB and Profile as well, to add to the list above.


Thanks for the info


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## Mattoid (Aug 1, 2006)

I did my first ride on my SS hub this weekend and it worked great! Very loud and quick engagement. It seemed louder than my regular pro 2, however I have not ridden that wheel on a bike yet, I've just spun it in my hand. 

Yes, you can change the alloy freehub for a steel one. I don't know where the best place to get one in the US would be but you can get them from CRC. Check your LBS first.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

I believe Hope loudness also depends on what kind, and how much, lubrication you have in there.


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

Pooh Bear said:


> Read a bit above:
> - SS/Trials hub: Steel freehub body vs. regular ProII: Aluminum body
> - weight
> - bolt on vs. quick release (you can change that, though)
> - sound!


Another up side of a wheel built with the Hope SS hub is that it will be symmetric (same spoke length on both sides) which is stronger.

Regarding sound, it will be a lot quieter serviced with grease although my experience from grease is that it starts to miss engagements when it gets cold, like below zero, not a problem in all countries


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

I never had it miss engagements at -15c on both my sets.

Lubrication definitely helps quiet them down. My favourite lube for inside the freehub is M Prep from Manitou. Stays inside the seals and its not too viscous like that grease they ship them with.


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

I used Motorex Bike Grease 2000. It might be more sensitive to low temperatures or I just had a bit too much which showed first when it got colder.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Someone asked earlier in this thread if the Hope SS hub can be converted to 10mm thru axle, and the answer from Hope is no (yes I asked them). But I think it can be done pretty easily. My hub came as a bolt on version, which uses 2 10mm bolts. I ordered the Q/R end caps a few months ago because I wanted to use a Q/R for both wheels. I pulled the endcaps off the other night to make the change, and decided to pull the hub apart a little more to see what's in there and how the grease looked. I took out the axle, and it looks to me like it would be pretty easy to turn it into a 10mm thru bolt setup. When you look thru the axle, there is a small area in the middle where the diameter gets smaller, I guess to accomadate a standard Q/R skewer. My plan was to just open up the whole axle to 10mm, and use a DT Swiss 10mm RWS skewer. I already modified my front hub to use an RWS 9mm skewer, so why not the rear as well? The only problem is if it does not work, or I want to switch back to the bolts, I need to buy a new axle, whereas with the front, only the endcaps had to be modified. I will try to take some pictures so everyone can see what I am talking about.

Mark


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## cmh (Jan 30, 2004)

The SRAM PG-990 has already been mentioned, but with 5 gears on the spider. My 11-34 PG-990 has 6 gears on the spider (17-20-23-27-30-34 I think) and fits like it was designed for it!



Can't use the SRAM lockring because it's smaller to fit the 11t small cog, but any 12t cog will work. Does look a little odd with the smallest cog being a 17, but you get the benefit of the wider spoke base and even spoke tension. For a 29er, I think this is the way to go unless you _really_ need the wider range of the full 11-34 cassette.


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## Pooh Bear (May 25, 2006)

twestis said:


> Another up side of a wheel built with the Hope SS hub is that it will be symmetric (same spoke length on both sides) which is stronger.
> 
> Regarding sound, it will be a lot quieter serviced with grease although my experience from grease is that it starts to miss engagements when it gets cold, like below zero, not a problem in all countries


Another thing is that it gets a lot quieter when it gets really really dirty.

And if the noise starts bothering me: I pedal.

The SStrials version buzzes with a higher frequency than the normal version so to say. 
For geared applications: I did some touring with it and also some adventure racing. I think 5-6 gears are enough. Ideally you use some 8-speed cassette as a basis. Ideal, because of availability and dirt, er, compatibility.


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## minifiedsheep (May 4, 2009)

hi, 

im guessing that this is the right place to post this.. Ive got a set of wheels running on hope pro 2, 9speed. and ive bought a specialized p2 for them to go on (which has horizontal dropouts and a mech hanger) I want to keep my 9 speed transmission so that it can be used for 4x or as a run-around bike.

What do people think is the best way of doing it?

1) using the quick release skewers, and a set of chaintugs to hold them in place 
or 
2) converting the hub to bolt on, and in which case which part do i need??  

Thanks for your help


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

You can convert the hub to bolt on. Universal Cycles should have the correct parts (call them or Hope to confirm what you to be sure):
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=7209

The kit should come with bolt on end caps, and a new axle from what I remember.


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## tallandy (Jan 29, 2008)

*1X6 on SS hub*

does anyone have any experience on installing 6 gears on the hope pro 2 SS hub with a sram derailleur? I can't seem to be able to get the derailleur adjusted properly with this setup


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

I'm also interested in succeeding with that set up! I tired X.0 derailleur/shifter and after changing the adjuster "L" screw to a plain one (not smaller towards the top) it stopped just before the 7:th gear. I still have not finished the project because my home made 6 gear cassette was not wide enough to fasten. When I added a spacer which pushed the cassette half a step outwards the new "L" screw could not stop the derailleur in time...


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## MD Sleep (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: SRAM and 1 x 6*

I am not a bike mechanic and do only the most basic stuff on my bike, but I ride a 1 x 6 with a Hope Pro 2 hub and the shop that set it up (which is an excellent shop for this stuff by the way...props to the Path) could not get the SRAM rear derailer to work.

We originally planned on a SRAM, but went to plan B which was an XT which worked perfectly.

From a non-mechanic, that's what I got for ya.

Peace

J


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## poorboy006 (Feb 27, 2004)

Not sure if it has already been asked but can you use the Hope kit (bolts & end caps?) to bolt on the standard non-ss pro 2 hub?


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

The conversion also seems to contain the axle:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=11825
(it does not specify which Pro2, so I guess all Pro2 hubs can be converted.)


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## roybatty666 (Mar 2, 2009)

It all depends what way you are converting

I have a SS that I am converting to QR and only need the end caps, but the standard QR hubs don't have a 10mm threaded axle hence the need to swap the axle as well


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## poorboy006 (Feb 27, 2004)

Thanks! That is exactly the info I was searching for.


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## pushinpixels (Jul 4, 2007)

tallandy said:


> does anyone have any experience on installing 6 gears on the hope pro 2 SS hub with a sram derailleur? I can't seem to be able to get the derailleur adjusted properly with this setup


YEP! 
And it works fantastically well, no problems after about 150 hours of riding.
See the pictures to see how my mechanic set it up.
http://gallery.mtbr.com/showgallery.php?cat=1656

The trick was to do 2 things

1. use a bolt from a SRAM gripshift (M4 x 16 .70 pitch) as the low limit adjustment screw. 
2. use a small retaining ring for spacing out the rear derailleur from the dropout.

Happily ever after!

I should sell these 2 items together and get rich.


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

pushinpixels said:


> YEP!
> And it works fantastically well, no problems after about 150 hours of riding.
> See the pictures to see how my mechanic set it up.
> http://gallery.mtbr.com/showgallery.php?cat=1656
> ...


Thanks! I'll try that out although the 1x9 I'm testing now is kind of comfortable


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## Clink (Oct 29, 2006)

Anyone managed to get some higher gearing by using a road cassette or something else? The 6 speed is appealing but would prefer 11/12 to mid/high 20's range rather than 17 t0 32/34.


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

Clink said:


> Anyone managed to get some higher gearing by using a road cassette or something else? The 6 speed is appealing but would prefer 11/12 to mid/high 20's range rather than 17 t0 32/34.


I've built my cassette from an old SRAM 7.0 cassette which have loose cogs. I used 11-14-16-18-21-24. 14 to 11 feels like an overdrive , 13-11would be better. If you start with 11and don't want the next one on the cassette you need to do some work with that cogs built in spacer.

Some stores offer loose cogs (Harris cycles?) and I've heard that you can split Tiagra cassettes. If you look at the tech docs at shimanos site you might also find some lighter cassette with spindles that could work.


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## EGF168 (Aug 13, 2007)

Has anyone weighed this hub without the bolts and spacers?


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

Clink said:


> Anyone managed to get some higher gearing by using a road cassette or something else? The 6 speed is appealing but would prefer 11/12 to mid/high 20's range rather than 17 t0 32/34.


I've managed to get 7 gears on with a road cassette 12-14-16-17-19-21-23, you could do the same with a 12-25 or 12-27 cassette.

Description in this link: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=571861


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

Not to continue the hijack, but I'm thinking of trying a 5 or 6 gear set-up. Can someone list the SRAM and Shimano cassette models and which ones have carriers with attached cogs? 

Any trouble with x.9 triggers once properly adjusted at the derailleur? 

Thanks!


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## in the trees (Mar 24, 2005)

in the trees said:


> Can someone list the SRAM and Shimano cassette models and which ones have carriers with attached cogs?


Answering my own question here.

Shimano XTR - Have their largest cogs pinned together in pairs creating a 6-speed stack.

11-32 = 16, 18, 21, 24, 28, 32T
11-34 = 17, 20, 23, 26, 30, 34T
12-34 = 18, 20, 23, 26, 30, 34T

Shimano XT - Either 5 or 6 cogs together depending on cassette spread.

11-32 = 18, 21, 24, 28, 32T
11-34 = 17, 20, 23, 26, 30, 34T

What about SRAM's offering?


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## thegallery (Jul 27, 2005)

There's probably a more relavant thread than this old one, but:
I wanted the Hope Pro II for the dishless rear wheel, but I also wanted the range of a 11/34 cassette. So I'm going to try to run the range in a 1x6. I have no idea how the ramps work or if the derailer can cover the whole range in the same movement, but I guess I'll find out! 

I'm using a SRAM 971 which as a little set screw in the back and you can pull apart all the spacers and cogs. I kept the two smallest ones, removed the 3rd, one in the middle and the one before the 34 (which I never used previoulsy.) I'm a 240lbs and actually enjoyed riding SS, but the ratio I ran was always too much for the steep climbs and too little for the flats and downs, and I had to quit when my knees started bugging me. I reckon a 3speed setup will be perfect, but I still want that same range! I'll be lucky to have the derailer make it through these 6 though so I'm not quite ready to attemp it in a 1x3. 

And no, I dont't want to run a 3x1. Next option woudl be a 3speed hub. I guess. I'll let you know how it goes...


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## John's Smith (Jan 4, 2010)

thegallery said:


> There's probably a more relavant thread than this old one, but:
> I wanted the Hope Pro II for the dishless rear wheel, but I also wanted the range of a 11/34 cassette. So I'm going to try to run the range in a 1x6. I have no idea how the ramps work or if the derailer can cover the whole range in the same movement, but I guess I'll find out!
> 
> I'm using a SRAM 971 which as a little set screw in the back and you can pull apart all the spacers and cogs. I kept the two smallest ones, removed the 3rd, one in the middle and the one before the 34 (which I never used previoulsy.) I'm a 240lbs and actually enjoyed riding SS, but the ratio I ran was always too much for the steep climbs and too little for the flats and downs, and I had to quit when my knees started bugging me. I reckon a 3speed setup will be perfect, but I still want that same range! I'll be lucky to have the derailer make it through these 6 though so I'm not quite ready to attemp it in a 1x3.
> ...


i cant find anything on that cassette, are there others like it? maybe a more recent model, maybe im not looking hard enough? Who knows, but im planning on running that same exact setup


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## nspace (May 25, 2006)

http://www.sram.com/en/srammountain/cassettes/9speed/pg970.php


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## thegallery (Jul 27, 2005)

Sorry, it's the SRAM PG 970.

$30 from price point, $40 from REI 
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/12...0QB1.htm&zmam=3075515&zmas=1&zmac=16&zmap=065


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

I'm so old my first racing bikes were actually 10 speeds. With 5 speed freewheels. 

My grandfather rode all over the continent on single speeds because that's all there was. The minimal gear thing still appeals as a track racer and single speeder, it just feels so good! So I'm intrigued by the 5 speed thing. Found this thread searching for info on the Hope SS hub for my SS... and I love the idea of the nice chain line you would have with just 5 or six cogs and a single chainring. (Have to mention, this was commonly done to great effect been before you were probably born) What I know from low RPM applications like time trials is that it feels MUCH better to the legs to keep the cassette spacing as tight as possible. There, you want one tooth gaps between the cogs under maximum load. Assuming the goal is a bike that appeals to single speeders, it's reasonable to say that a tight cassette is going to feel great under low RPM loads. Retaining some of the feel of a single speed and much of the efficiency, while still providing relief for steep pitches and some giddyup for the rollers. For racing, I think it could be really fast and light.

Can't help but wonder how cool it would be do do this:

Take a good vintage 5 arm compact crankset and one of those steel Ritchey 29 chainrings from his old 2x9 setups (which I have in a box...). 

Add the outer 5 or 6 cogs from an 8 or 9 speed cassette, instead of the inner cogs most are using 

This would be way cool because you could use a nice tight road derailleur for very positive shifts. No need for the jumbo cassette cogs. I can see where those would be compelling for some. but I'd like to try a tight cassette if possible- faster shifts, close ratios for low RPM efficiency, lighter cogs, shorter and lighter chain, minimal chain slap, less chain suck, less dropped chains, no floppy MTB derailleur, less weight overall by a noticeable amount, and (truth be told) I think it would look cool. 

29 x 11/13/15/17/20/23 would be a fun ride, for example.... or even 12-13-15-17-19-21 to keep it really tight and close to a traditional SS feel

Also it would be cool on a cyclocross bike where you frequently only use a few gears in a race. Just bump it up to a bigger chainring and you gain the benefits of a dishless wheel and a really nice chain line = less chain drops. 

Of course with this hub that would mean a 135 frame with a disc brake- which I really want on my cross bike! Don't even get me started on the UCI geezers that are even older than me that blockade this from happening because they didn't have disc brakes on THEIR wooden rimmed bikes when they were racing...


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

On topic: having exploded single speed freewheels back in the day when that's all we had, I love the idea of a slightly overbuilt single speed hub with a steel cassette body. Conversely aluminum XC cassette bodies seem sub-optimal even with the wide based single cogs. This hub would appear to be an excellent choice and my LBS has a had good results with the standard XC version, so this one ought to even be better. It would seem the wider flanges would build a stiff enough wheel to offset the use of a light rim like a Stan's 355, so you'd wind up saving weight where it counts in the long run. I can't wait to build some up!


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## thegallery (Jul 27, 2005)

I loved riding SS. I soon came to realize that riding SS is far more versatile then riding gears. Let me explain, one of the reasons I like MTB over Road is that I am constantly moving position; sliding forward on the seat to climb with the front end down, or to the back for descents, off the seat for quick speed, etc.... Whereas 2 minutes on the road can be a bore that bugs all the contact points: feet, butt and hands.

But with SS your position is even more varied. With gears you pretty much switch all the time to give yourself a constant cadence and pressure, whereas SS you have one gear, so you stand up a lot more, and sometimes you're spinning like an idiot while other times your cranking so hard you feel like you're doing a set of squats. The varied pace always keeps you cooking.

I still want the range though because I need a couple extra gears for the extremes. One of the reasons I'd like to run 5, or 6, is because I find I still ride SS style often, and I'm suddenly having to shift clicking the button multiple times to get to the gear I want. Not having so many clicks will definitely be a plus. Sure I'll miss finding that perfect gear that I could settle into for a while, but I I think I'll be happier.

I ride 1x9, weigh 240lb, and ride XC 4-5 times a week, and the last couple chains lasted 4-5 months before a break. Where-as 3x9 I sometimes broke once a week from the lateral forces (and shifting style)

Also, I'm old enough! For example, I've never been on a road bike that has shifters build into the brake levers! And this was my bike as a kid: http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/ManualSSPL/10319038.aspx Guess what? Three speed !!!!!!


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## LyNx (Oct 26, 2004)

Yes there are loads of more recent threads on this, check the 29er forum mainly as building a stronger dishless wheel is something a lot of us 29er riders are looking for. FYI, I have been running a 6/7 spd Pro2 wheel now for just over 1.5 years and am super happy with it.

So if I have this right you have a 34, 26, 22, 17,13, 11. Going by the old days and those super stupid IMHO mega range 7 spd cassettes you should not have too much issues shifting to the 34 from the 26 - _that's only 8 teeth, whereas the mega was 10 or 12._



thegallery said:


> There's probably a more relavant thread than this old one, but:
> I wanted the Hope Pro II for the dishless rear wheel, but I also wanted the range of a 11/34 cassette. So I'm going to try to run the range in a 1x6. I have no idea how the ramps work or if the derailer can cover the whole range in the same movement, but I guess I'll find out!
> 
> I'm using a SRAM 971 which as a little set screw in the back and you can pull apart all the spacers and cogs. I kept the two smallest ones, removed the 3rd, one in the middle and the one before the 34 (which I never used previoulsy.) I'm a 240lbs and actually enjoyed riding SS, but the ratio I ran was always too much for the steep climbs and too little for the flats and downs, and I had to quit when my knees started bugging me. I reckon a 3speed setup will be perfect, but I still want that same range! I'll be lucky to have the derailer make it through these 6 though so I'm not quite ready to attemp it in a 1x3.
> ...


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

thegallery said:


> And this was my bike as a kid: http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/images/ManualSSPL/10319038.aspx Guess what? Three speed !!!!!!


Love it. I grew up with crummy Sturmey Archer 3 speed's too. They always hit neutral at the perfect moment to threaten your successful approach to puberty.

meanwhile, I patiently await the return of the 3 speed in a performance package. It's been many decades so I guess we need to make our own.

Always thought a 3 speed would be the perfect mountain bike because, how obvious, what do we do?

1) Up
2) Roll around
3) Down


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

lowestgear said:


> Love it. I grew up with crummy Sturmey Archer 3 speed's too. They always hit neutral at the perfect moment to threaten your successful approach to puberty.
> 
> meanwhile, I patiently await the return of the 3 speed in a performance package. It's been many decades so I guess we need to make our own.
> 
> ...


You mean like this:

http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=33640


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## frontierwolf (Sep 28, 2005)

I use a freewheel on my current SS but was looking to build up a new back wheel with a standard Hope Hub. 

Do the Surly and Niner Cogs with the wider cassette spline really keep them from eating into the aluminum cassette body? 

Are there any single cogs with splines that are wider than those two?


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

Not a weight weenie by any means, but: this has been covered and there are several different answers on record in several threads... has anyone actually weighed their Hope SS hub with and without bolts? 

Curious of the unbolted vs bolted weight. Have seen 370 and 450 mentioned as the weight with bolts- that's a big difference for a bike that's going to get raced. 370 with bolts seems quite reasonable but 450 gets into the zone of looking at lighter solutions... so, actual personally weighed examples of this hub, anyone?


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## boomn (Jul 6, 2007)

lowestgear said:


> Not a weight weenie by any means, but: this has been covered and there are several different answers on record in several threads... has anyone actually weighed their Hope SS hub with and without bolts?
> 
> Curious of the unbolted vs bolted weight. Have seen 370 and 450 mentioned as the weight with bolts- that's a big difference for a bike that's going to get raced. 370 with bolts seems quite reasonable but 450 gets into the zone of looking at lighter solutions... so, actual personally weighed examples of this hub, anyone?


I've seen them measured on this forum somewhere. But even without finding that back, I can tell you that the bolts definitely aren't the weight difference. The significant difference is because of the steel freehub body


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

boomn said:


> I've seen them measured on this forum somewhere. But even without finding that back, I can tell you that the bolts definitely aren't the weight difference. The significant difference is because of the steel freehub body


I'm cool with the additional steel freehub weight to a point; it would be nice to have the ability to run single skinny cogs. Just wondering if that adds modest weight or makes it a boat anchor. Curious to get a sampling of actual weights since there has been variation on the reported weights. It's possible that there are revisions of this model floating around with different weights... (?) Not expecting it to be light but trying to determine if it's maybe a bit porkier than it needs to be for XC based on its trials heritage


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## lowestgear (Dec 27, 2009)

Found this on Stan's web site

*Hope ProII Singlespeed is 370g and comes with: spacers (11g), bolts (57g), also features 48pt engagement and steel freehub shell.

http://www.notubes.com/wheel_weight.php

and for reference from that same source...

*American Classic Singlespeed quick release version is 230g and comes with: spacers (10g), 18 tooth Cog (45g), lock ring (6g) 
*DT Swiss 240s Single Speed Center Lock quick release is 243g and comes with: spacers (9g), lock ring (5g) 
*American Classic Singlespeed Bolt-on version is 244g and comes with: spacers (10g) 18 tooth dog (45g), lock ring (6g), bolts ( 61g) 
*WTB Single Duty Singlespeed is 318g and comes with: 16 tooth cog (36g), lock ring (8g), bolts (24g)


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## theycallmeE (Aug 21, 2007)

*Yes*



frontierwolf said:


> I use a freewheel on my current SS but was looking to build up a new back wheel with a standard Hope Hub.
> 
> Do the Surly and Niner Cogs with the wider cassette spline really keep them from eating into the aluminum cassette body?
> 
> Are there any single cogs with splines that are wider than those two?


No experience with Niner's, but the Surly's are plenty wide. Chris King is making beautifully machined cogs that have a nice wide base where they engage they splines.

E


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## austinTRON (Mar 31, 2013)

dcurtis said:


> I used to work at Paul Component engineering...if you could get a smoking deal on Paul hubs would you go with them over the Hopes?


You gotta use a freewheel with paul hubs :s


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

austinTRON said:


> You gotta use a freewheel with paul hubs :s


Is that supposed to be a 3 year old burn? :drumroll:


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## 1 Speed (Jan 8, 2004)

If you're asking whether to use a dedicated SS hub or not....that's up to you. There's a slight strength difference in the SS hub (who's actually folded a modern wheel though) but the geared hub is more versatile. I've used geared hubs with spacers for years with almost no issues (get King or Niner wide base cogs) and when money allowed, I got a dedicated SS hub (I only use Chris King or White). Functionally, I can't tell the difference except the SS hub has bolts.


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