# looking for a budget slack hardtail



## jonorok (Feb 14, 2015)

Alright, I tend to get rambly, so first things first:

TL;DR: What are my options for a slacked-out budget hardtail?

Ramble time!

I get restless in the winter in NH. I'm an outdoors guy, and the cold and I don't always get along - I miss baseball and longboarding, and have recently picked up a burning desire to go mountain biking. The revelation came when I realized many of my favorite hiking/snowshoeing/snowmobile/4wd/logging roads can all be traversed on two wheels. Hence, after a quick discussion with the wife, we are looking entry level hardtails to pick up in the spring.  Bikes aren't cheap, and with TWO of us, budget is now king! So, off to the internet to research I went.

Now, when I last seriously rode a bicycle, I was 12. Bikes have come a long way since then, and I almost couldn't believe it. The technology astounds me, and so do the prices. But I keep reading and researching and learning so much. I remember riding daily with my friends growing up. The two kids I spent time with both had geared bikes. I remember when the other neighborhood kid came home with a mongoose with front suspension, he was king of the hill, untouchable, and we raced constantly and pedaled everywhere. I, always prevalent on my laser-blue single speed my dad rebuilt secondhand from a yard sale, was quite fond of my bike. I could go anywhere they could go, even if I had the burden of bike envy. 

15 years later, I am quite excited about the whole prospect again. Cycling on roads couldn't possibly be more boring to me than watching paint dry, but the prospect of adventuring NH has me so excited. The wife and I did a lot of research and sizing theory online, before heading to the LBS to try on a few wheels for size. (It's winter, so all their bikes were in the crowded attic. It was difficult.) Low and behold, lots of bikes I read about looked even better in person, and felt... well, terrible. I'm 6 ft tall, with 6'4" of arms side to side, and figured that a big frame would do well with 29's - turns out they don't. The treks felt terrible. The cannondales felt awkward, every 29er felt like clown shoes and everything I looked at made me feel out of place - and then I pulled out a Scott Spark in a medium, with 650b wheels. The racing seat didn't hurt, the frame felt small beneath me, I felt between the wheels, my hands on the wide handlebars made small, agile work of the 27.5" wheel up front, and everything felt Goldilocks-just right. After that the wife assumed we'd just have to be $6k in just to start this sport (Scott Spark x 2. It also fit _her _well.)

After digging and digging, finding that geometry is... well, not everything, but geometry is a lot, I started piecing together a few answers on why the budget treks felt terrible. My 24" torso wants a small frame, while my 34.5" inseam thinks I need a bigger bike. Couple that with my long arms, and a standard 71 degree head tube angle leaves a bit to be desired with the long stem keeping me reaching over the bike. With Scott's setup, a slacker angle, shorter stem, and wider handle bar brought me in tight, and I had all the arm in the world to through me or the bike around. It felt right.

So now, I've done some homework on my geometries, and I'm no longer looking at my budget $500 componentry in Diamondback, Trek 3700, Motobecane and Gravity bikes. But I am still really looking for a decent budget hardtail, aluminum frame, with a slacked out head in the 66 to 68 range. I can't find what I'm looking for. 

I've seen a few frames for sale, but building up a bike would put us farther out of our price range from the offset, so I'm looking for recommendations.

I've seen the Nukeproof scout frame at $500, with a 66 degree Ha,
Nukeproof Scout Hardtail Frame 2015 | Chain Reaction Cycles

The Canfield Brothers' Yelli Screamy looks divine, $650 frame and a 68/69 degree Ha,
Yelli Screamy - the 29er that handles like a 26" mountain bike frame

If you've read this much, thank you! I'd appreciate any insight you have to offer.


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## G (Feb 22, 2010)

Check out Giant.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

The raleigh tokul sounds like what you're looking for, and a on-one 456 is an option too if you can forgive it for being made from a superior material.


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

Bike Wagon has closeout Banshee Paradox frames for $350.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

hell I went to look at closeout price, but sizes arent even listed,lol. hellva price for the frame though (too bad I aint got the spare cash, Id snag a frame for a trail/am HT build)

edit: only medium frame....just found that, WAY too small for me


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## Geralt (Jul 11, 2012)

Bikewagon's website shows 6 large and 2 mediums left when I look at it. Bet those won't last long at that price.

An even cheaper option would be the On One Parkwood from Planet X. Not sure what sizes they have in stock at the moment though.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

A Trek Superfly 18.5" should fit you with some 750mm bars.
Demoing one would be best because they feel too quick in the parking lot.
The 69* head tube angle with the 51mm offset fork and those wide bars will handle a pretty broad range of terrain and speeds. 
You are likely to go with a full sus bike like the Evil Following once you start riding trails it can't handle.


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## perttime (Aug 26, 2005)

For geometry, you want a bike that lets you have a good distance from seat to handlebar.

On-One 456 was my first thought for a "budget slack hardtail". Banshee Paradox frame for $350 looks like a good deal, but if it is only in stock as Medium, it might be a little on the small side for a 6' guy. Looks like it would be shorter than the Scott Spark Medium - but looking at the numbers I get the feeling that Banshee and Scott are measuring some things a little differently (horizontal top tube and seat post angle vs. reach and stack).


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Diamond Back Mason from Backcountry.com


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Check out the Parkwood, 456 and 456B

Mountain Bikes | On-One Bikes


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## owensjs (May 21, 2009)

Here's some food for thought about building bikes and ordering online...You won't be able to test ride them first. You've already thrown a leg over some bikes and saw that some of them simply won't work for you...there's a chance that ordering or building one will result in something you don't like as well.

With that said, building a bike is a great option to get what you want from the start. It has it's drawbacks, though. The big one is that it almost always costs more in the long run to do a custom build. Secondly, you'll have to do your research on parts compatibility and either do the build yourself or pay a LBS to do it. 

Buying bikes online can often get you a great deal, but like I mentioned before, you won't be able to test ride it first unless you know someone who owns the exact bike you buy. Additionally you'll need to budget for the bike build or build it yourself. Not a terribly hard thing to do, but working in a shop I've seen more than a few customer built bikes that were either done wrong or parts were damaged in the process.

Have you considered the used route?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Owenjs nails a lot of stuff I was going to mention. 

You sound like you have a good idea how you want a bike to feel, so I also would write off anything you can't test ride first. That would include doing a frame up build - there's nothing worse than putting a bunch of time and money into a build, then taking it for that first spin and figuring out it's not even close to what you wanted it to ride like.

Where are you in NH? I'm just south of the border in MA; maybe I could give you some local 411.


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## Track_Master (Nov 30, 2013)

I built my Ragley Piglet 2 last year, just rode it this morning, and i'm still just as stoked about it as I was the first ride! Its a low slung bike that rails corners super stable at speed and begs to be ridden at the thresh hold of your comfort zone.

My bike build site is half built but you can check it out. Welcome to the KeenStoke! - Chronicles of a mountain biker and his journey


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## jonorok (Feb 14, 2015)

Wow, thanks for so much helpful feedback, all of you! It's been awhile since I've had this warm an online welcome.

You guys have opened my eyes to a lot more bikes than I expected, but I asked, and you definitely answered!

OwensJS, thanks for the food for thought. I think I could build a bike from scratch, but I am aware of the headache of parts matching, and am hoping to avoid that rout for the first bike mentality. A prebuilt like the Raleigh Tokul is almost exactly what I was hoping to find.

I am now very aware that numbers, a bike does not quite make, so unless I feel forced to, I won't be buying a bike I haven't sat on.  Here's hoping the numbers game beforehand will help prevent that and predict a good fit.

I have been perusing craigslist, but NH craigslist is mostly littered with Treks and road bikes. The wife liked the 3700 fit just fine, so I might pick up a decent used one or maybe a 4300 if I can find one. She is also more interested in road biking than I am, but I've heard it said, "make a mountain bike do road work, but don't make a road bike do mountain work." 

Slapheadmofo, thanks. We are up just west of Plymouth, exit 23/25 off 93. The bike store up here, Rhino works, carries mostly Trek. Looks like there's a few decent shops down towards you near Manchester or Nashua, maybe a couple in Dover, over in Lebanon, up in Conway... I'm not really sure which shops to run to. My wife is from the Baldwinville/Ashburnham/Gardner area.


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## Max24 (Jan 31, 2013)

06HokieMTB said:


> Diamond Back Mason from Backcountry.com


Second that!


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## Sleeveless (Nov 18, 2006)

Diamondback Sync'r is what I'm considering for a nicely specced slack hardtail.


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## 06HokieMTB (Apr 25, 2011)

Max24 said:


> Second that!


Good to see some Mason love. I really enjoy mine, especially with B+ rear!


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## jonorok (Feb 14, 2015)

Lots of love for Diamondback. Any thoughts on the lower specced Hook? The Geo numbers look real similar to the mid size Scott Spark. It could be a real good fit. Double walled rims, wide handle with an 8speed drivetrain. Might be just enough bike.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

jonorok said:


> . Looks like there's a few decent shops down towards you near Manchester or Nashua, maybe a couple in Dover, over in Lebanon, up in Conway... I'm not really sure which shops to run to. My wife is from the Baldwinville/Ashburnham/Gardner area.


Oh cool, my neck of the woods; I'm in Westminster. So you're up near Newfound Lake area? Nice. I once pushed/rode my bike up and down Mt Cardigan and Firescrew - one of my all time top memorable rides. There's been a real uptick in trailbuilding in southern/central NH for the past few years too - you'll find you're in a part of the country where you never gonna run out of good places to ride within an hour or two of home.

So, you're looking to get both you and your wife rolling - what's the budget? You gotta factor for helmets and a little bit of other stuff too, keep in mind. Shops up in Lincoln do some pretty good sales at times, lot of lower end stuff for the most part, but not all. There's Goodales and S&W in Concord, should have a decent selection. If you keep an eye on both the NH and northern MA craigslists, good bikes for good prices pop up pretty regularly - there's a pretty active MTB community in NE.

Also, having ridden in NE a lot, depending on budget of course, I would also seriously consider FS bikes too. Yes, you can ride everything out there on a HT, but there's is a lot to be said for a little extra squish around here IME. You are in the Granite State after all. If you do like the feel of smaller wheels (I'm a fan myself) there are good deals out there on used 26" FS bikes that could be a lot of fun.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

jonorok said:


> I've heard it said, "make a mountain bike do road work, but don't make a road bike do mountain work."


I dunno about this. An XC bike with high volume slicks can be fun almost anywhere if you're a good bike handler, but all these long travel hardtails are 'fairly crap' on the road and even on fire roads. Sure, you won't damage it, but my steel road bike with sturdy wheels can survive a singletrack adventure just fine too, and it's incomparably better for road riding.

The appeal of a long travel hardtail is that you have high-speed stability, durability, stiffness, and jump-friendly handling on an otherwise simple bike. It's a bike for a certain type of rider on a certain type of trail.

A 3700 or 4300 is like that too- it's for a new rider who is gonna spend a lot of time on dirt roads and bike paths. I've spent some time on a 4300, and it's totally out of its element when my 456 is just hitting its stride. It's all in the details.

If your wife is going to be your primary riding partner... GET THE BEST BIKES FOR WHAT SHE WANTS TO DO. All riding is fun, the best tool for the job is the best, and her happiness is gonna make for the best experience.


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## 93mpierce (Nov 16, 2014)

It sounds like you are looking for these bikes:

Vitus Sentier (just bought mine after months of research)
Santa Cruz Chameleon
Commencal Meta
Jamis Komodo or Jamis Dragon
Diamondback Sync'r (I chose the Sentier over this because of the air fork and rims)
Raleigh Tokul (not as slack though... more XC oriented)


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## jonorok (Feb 14, 2015)

Yep, we live right off Newfound lake. I'm looking forward to riding Bear Mt. Road and all through Wellington state park, and as time and skill progress, adventuring elsewhere like Highland park or Franklin Falls.

After some re-communication with my wife, we are a little more on the same page. It seems she thought I was planning on bombing down cliff faces on a bicycle, hence her more "road oriented" concerns.  After talking about local trails, roads, and paths, she is definitely interested in XC, while I desire a more slack bike, for fit, feel, and a more aggressive approach to the trails on occasion. 

That said, our budget is $1200 after all the bells and whistles. I found a local shop who is largely a Raleigh dealer, and come April when they change over their stock, I will try out a Tokul 2 and see how that feels. After digging around I think an EVA 2 or 3 would suit my wife well, so... I guess we'll make a trip in April and see what feels good. Thank you all for your help! You guys are a wonderful resource.


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