# XTR 11-speed 40T cassette with 11-speed road shifters?



## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

Is this possible? One of the Shimano reps gave a "maybe", but haven't found any confirmation:
_Can I use the XTR M9000 cassette on my 11-speed road setup?

Maybe. It should clear your spokes and fit on your 10-speed and 11-speed (with a spacer) freehubs, but your rear derailleur will likely be incompatible with the 40t cog. However, some clever folks have figured out that a longer rear derailleur B-screw can be a cheap hack to make it work._

Looking to buy a cross/adventure bike, but the 34/32 isn't low enough for some of the puke-inducing fire roads around here. Evidently, the XTR 11 rear derailleur will NOT work with the road shifters due to different cable pull.


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## z1r (Apr 17, 2014)

This has been true of road shifters and MTB derailleurs for some time. With ten speed setups people have used a 9 spd long cage derailleur with 10 spd road shifters. Not sure if that will still work with 11 spd cassettes though. I will be, finally, switching from a 7 spd cassette to 10 spd along with new brifters.


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## Racing snake (Oct 18, 2014)

mwarner57 said:


> Is this possible? One of the Shimano reps gave a "maybe", but haven't found any confirmation:
> _Can I use the XTR M9000 cassette on my 11-speed road setup?
> 
> Maybe. It should clear your spokes and fit on your 10-speed and 11-speed (with a spacer) freehubs, but your rear derailleur will likely be incompatible with the 40t cog. However, some clever folks have figured out that a longer rear derailleur B-screw can be a cheap hack to make it work._
> ...


Sub'd. It would be super if it could, though I may wait for XTR 11s to trickle down to XT first as the XTR cassettes always cost so much.


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## Walt Disney's Frozen Head (Jan 9, 2008)

fwiw, I run my x9 cranks on my "b" cx bike (42/28) so I can get power data during training/wednesday worlds... ...etc - generally run 11-28 w/ small cage derailleur. I'm sure the chainline isn't 100% optimized but shifts fine on training rides and races but I'm usually in the big ring so not a ton of experience w/ chain drop conditions.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

as the rep alluded to, your issue is the rear derailleur. Road shifters are not compatible with the 11 speed xtr derailleur. You would have to use a road 11 speed derailleur. It would be tough for a road derailleur to handle a 40t. As the rep said, you can try a longer b screw to try to make it work.


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## Texico (Feb 23, 2009)

What others have said, all the way. I have a SRAM setup on my cross/commuter because SRAM road shifters are compatible with their mtb rear derailleurs. Granted I'm running a 10sp rear, but it's with a long cage X-7 derailleur to clear the 36t cassette.


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## mitchy (May 12, 2013)

even with a longer B screw, you will be pushing poop up will with a pointed stick to get a road derailleur to handle an 11-40t cassette. most of them call it quits around the 30/32t mark.
and if it did work, the shifting would be terrible.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

Texico said:


> I have a SRAM setup on my cross/commuter because SRAM road shifters are compatible with their mtb rear derailleurs.


Unfortunately SRAM 11 speed road is also incompatible with mountain derailleurs. The manufacturers are making it much harder to mix and match these days! I just put hydraulic discs on my Dirty Disco, and since I am using an X0 type 2 rear derailleur, I had to stay with 10 speed S-700 shifters.


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## stevereeneo (Jul 16, 2007)

I'm curious if it is possible to use the pulley cage from an XT or XTR (or other) rear derailleur on an 11-speed rear derailleur. I've done that with an older 9-speed rear derailleur using a longer cage from a broken RD from the same generation. 

I haven't looked at 11-speed for this very reason. I like the fact that I can run an 11-36 (or even 40/42 with additional cogs) cassette with road shifters.

Whether someone wants to take apart an 11-speed and a 10-speed derailleur will be another issue as well... It wouldn't surprise me if it worked. Though I'm guessing Shimano will say that you can't do it 😜.

S


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

ljsmith said:


> Unfortunately SRAM 11 speed road is also incompatible with mountain derailleurs. The manufacturers are making it much harder to mix and match these days! I just put hydraulic discs on my Dirty Disco, and since I am using an X0 type 2 rear derailleur, I had to stay with 10 speed S-700 shifters.


I'm under the impression that you can use 11 speed shifters with mountain derailleurs other than XX1. SRAM says the CX1 rear mech is compatible with 10 or 11 speed, so as long as your shifter matches your cassette, I think you're good to go with any SRAM derailleur. XX1 is the only exception.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Get a medium cage 9 sp XT derailleur and pair it with 10 sp 7800 DA shifters. 11x36 gearing options, and if you need a lower gear on a fire road, walk. Sure, it ain't 11sp but it does everything you need it to, perfect shifting every time and buttery smooth, last forever shifters.


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

spsoon said:


> I'm under the impression that you can use 11 speed shifters with mountain derailleurs other than XX1. SRAM says the CX1 rear mech is compatible with 10 or 11 speed, so as long as your shifter matches your cassette, I think you're good to go with any SRAM derailleur. XX1 is the only exception.


You could be right. But I don't want to be the guy to spend all the money to figure it out! Things sure are getting confusing these days.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

I run a converted triple road crank with a 29/42/bash, 11-34 cassette, XTR 962 short cage RD and 10spd sti. No reason why you couldnt use a 11-36 and long cage RD for more depth.


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

spsoon said:


> I'm under the impression that you can use 11 speed shifters with mountain derailleurs other than XX1. SRAM says the CX1 rear mech is compatible with 10 or 11 speed, so as long as your shifter matches your cassette, I think you're good to go with any SRAM derailleur. XX1 is the only exception.


From what I hear, the CX1 is nothing more than a SRAM 11-speed road group set up for a single ring in front. The max cassette size on the rear der. is 32T, which is the same as the road groups. I think the 10-speed SRAM MTB derailleurs would work, but you would have to run a 10-speed cassette, as they don't make any 11-speed cassettes other than XX1. This mix and match stuff isn't as easy as it used to be.


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

jrm said:


> I run a converted triple road crank with a 29/42/bash, 11-34 cassette, XTR 962 short cage RD and 10spd sti. No reason why you couldnt use a 11-36 and long cage RD for more depth.


The bike I'm looking at (GT Grade Ultegra) comes with Ultegra 11 and hydraulic brakes, so I would be stuck with the existing shifters. Can't recall if I can use a 9-speed rear der. and 10-speed MTB cassette with these shifters?


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## mitchy (May 12, 2013)

spsoon said:


> I'm under the impression that you can use 11 speed shifters with mountain derailleurs other than XX1. SRAM says the CX1 rear mech is compatible with 10 or 11 speed, so as long as your shifter matches your cassette, I think you're good to go with any SRAM derailleur. XX1 is the only exception.





ljsmith said:


> You could be right. But I don't want to be the guy to spend all the money to figure it out! Things sure are getting confusing these days.


Spoon is right. 10spd mtb/road and 11spd road use the same pull ratio. you can use a 10spd mtb derailluer, with 11spd road shifters on an 11spd cassette.



mwarner57 said:


> From what I hear, the CX1 is nothing more than a SRAM 11-speed road group set up for a single ring in front. The max cassette size on the rear der. is 32T, which is the same as the road groups. I think the 10-speed SRAM MTB derailleurs would work, but you would have to run a 10-speed cassette, as they don't make any 11-speed cassettes other than XX1. This mix and match stuff isn't as easy as it used to be.


sram make a PG-1170 cassette in 11-36.

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-pg-1170-11-36-cassette


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

mitchy said:


> sram make a PG-1170 cassette in 11-36.
> https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-pg-1170-11-36-cassette


Interesting. I didn't know such an animal existed. According to SRAM's website, it will work with a medium-cage CX1 derailleur, which is at odds with the spec listed on SRAMs website (32T max). Given that the spacing is the same as Shimano, I think there is a good possibility that it would work with Shimano 11-speed as well with a b-tension tweak. Not quite a 40t, but a pretty decent jump from 32.


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## blizzardpapa (Jan 19, 2004)

Why not go with a 1x10 set up?

Once I have enough money, I will rdo a 1x10 set upy using a 34t or 36t in the front and use a One-Up 42 Cog with a shimano 10 speed Cassette.


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

blizzardpapa said:


> Why not go with a 1x10 set up?
> 
> Once I have enough money, I will rdo a 1x10 set upy using a 34t or 36t in the front and use a One-Up 42 Cog with a shimano 10 speed Cassette.


I am looking at bike with Ultegra 11, so would have to toss the entire groupo, as well as the hydraulic brakes, to go with 10-speed.


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## blizzardpapa (Jan 19, 2004)

I looked up the GT Grade Carbon Online and It is light bike. I am not sure the steepness of your fire road, but a 34 x 32 is a fairly low gear for a that is under 20 pounds. You also need to factor in the rotation weight of this bike should be less than your mountain bike.

I speak of this from experience as I spend lots of time riding my road bike and racing cyclocross. My Trek Madone's lowest gear is 34 x30 and I don't use that gear often. I live in Vancouver Canada and we have some some steep mountains here. You should give the bike a try before planning for a lower gear.


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

blizzardpapa said:


> I looked up the GT Grade Carbon Online and It is light bike. I am not sure the steepness of your fire road, but a 34 x 32 is a fairly low gear for a that is under 20 pounds. You also need to factor in the rotation weight of this bike should be less than your mountain bike.
> 
> I speak of this from experience as I spend lots of time riding my road bike and racing cyclocross. My Trek Madone's lowest gear is 34 x30 and I don't use that gear often. I live in Vancouver Canada and we have some some steep mountains here. You should give the bike a try before planning for a lower gear.


I have ridden my Roubaix on some of the fire roads around here with a 34/30, and although it works surprisingly well with that combo, I definitely need to gear down. On my Tallboy (XX1) I am in the 42 on those same climbs. I'm thinking the 36 might get er' done. Could also set up a 30/46 MTB crank for a little less gear if it came down to it.


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## mitchy (May 12, 2013)

mwarner57 said:


> Interesting. I didn't know such an animal existed. According to SRAM's website, it will work with a medium-cage CX1 derailleur, which is at odds with the spec listed on SRAMs website (32T max). Given that the spacing is the same as Shimano, I think there is a good possibility that it would work with Shimano 11-speed as well with a b-tension tweak. Not quite a 40t, but a pretty decent jump from 32.


yep, i noticed that as well. my only thought is that the 1170 11-36 came out after the CX1 derailleur.. and they are yet to update it? it does specifically say it's compatible though. you may get a shimano to work with the 36t, i know the newer derailleurs have a bit more capacity.


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## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

I tried using a fsa afterburner crank on my cx frame and while it worked it shifted like shat. Hence why i converted the road triple.


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## Hogdog (Aug 12, 2012)

I believe it's possible but only by mixing Di2 groupsets (XTR cassette and rear derraileur with road shifters).


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## kward541 (Jan 1, 2013)

*11-40, 30x46, SRAM 10sp road, adventure touring set up works well!*

I wish I could answer the original question... will the XTR m9000 11-40 cass work with an 11sp road shifter? I would like to add the mechanical requirement.
I run a 10sp ultra-wide range 11-40 cass w 30-46 road double. Sorry I don't have all my facts, but I have not yet seen any combination of 9/10/11sp SRAM/Shimano (or even Campy) cable pull/ratio spec trickery that appears worth risking the money to explore the 11sp road shifter 11-40 possibilities.

I didn't quite understand what mitchy & spsoon were saying, but it's intriguing... I wanted to hear them say that 11sp SRAM road shifters work w SRAM 11sp RDs and the XTR 11-40! That they have thrashed around on it for a while. Anyone have anything to add to this?

If you are here, this might be of interest...

My LBS just got a LandShark w DA Di2 working with an 11-40 11sp. It works, but the customer ordered a longer RD hanger for a little more cog clearance.

I see companies like OneUp making extra long cage replacements for MTB rear deraillers. Is anyone making one for 11sp road RDs? It could allow an 11sp road RD to handle the chain wrap of an 11-40 double and move the upper pulley away from the cog. Anyone have anything to add here?

I kept it a secret for a while, but I run an 11-40 10sp cass (Leonardi SRAM 1070 conversion) w/ SRAM 10sp road shifters and a 10sp SRAM Type1 MTB long cage RD. To further complicate things I run 30x46 Rotor Q rings, whose elliptical shape adds about 2T to the T limit count. On a hard to get 110/74 Sugino OX601D (narrow Q) road crank. This is on a Specialized AWOL (Lg) and I believe this would not work as well if not for the long chainstay / RD hanger (27.5mm), versatile chain line and the crank's narrow Q factor.
I would not try this on a short chainstay or tight chainline (ie. road) bike or recommend it to anyone who does not fine tune their own bike! The T count is stupid over mfg. recommended limit and no shop would recommend it.
However, it works well. I does require an accurate "shift pause release" transitioning up onto the bigger jumps of the adapter cogs. There are 17 clean gear combos and less gear overlap/duplication, but a little forethought and finesse makes it a great drive train.
B spring is near maxed, but comfortable and doesn't need flipping or modding. (I believe flipping the B spring screw over rotates the RD body and stresses the B spring = compromised shifting and breakage risk).
The stock KMC was lengthened to 118? links, so it wouldn't explode if big cog to big ring and the RD handles the wrap well w/ normal (minimal) chain slap for a Type1 RD.
Due to the increased chain approach angles of the 11-40 and the Q rings, chain clearance at the top and bottom of the Apex FD cage is maxed out. No matter where I set it, there was slight chain drag. Because the chain rings are smaller radius (than std. compact) and clearance was tight I slightly changed (ground) the lower outer edge of the FD cage's radius (less than 1mm in the middle of the arc) to better match the outer chain ring's profile. This allowed a slightly better cage position and fit. Presto, it shifts better and there is no drag.
Initially I tried the stock X9 10sp Type2 long cage and it didn't work well w/ the 11-40 (q rings or not). Then a used X9 10sp Type1 and it worked pretty well, but flexed a lot on the big cog shift. Recently, I upgraded to an XO long cage 10sp RD, stiffer cable housing and a 1071 chain (also lengthened) and I'm quite pleased (thank you Siskiyou Cyclery). 
I tried round rings and shifting was slightly better, but I still prefer the RotorQ advantages. Shift cable tension is finicky, but an inline cable adjuster solves that on the fly. I don't believe any 11-42 would work without changing something else.
I have about 450mi of fairly rough/steep terrain and some with a load on this set up. There were times where I thought I was beaten and would have to give up either the Q rings, the 11-40 or the 16T difference up front. The first 150mi were a pain w lots of trail side tuning, but the last 300mi have shown me that the ultra wide double drive train may well have a future. One could easily duplicate this setup on the right bike with a minimum of fuss (hello manufacturers, are you listening). 
At this point, I would trust it on a long remote gravel tour and am happy to put up with the nuances to have a fantastic adventure touring gear range (21" to 118"!!!w 700x42) in a narrow double. Think about it, it fills a gap that not even a MTB triple or Road triple can cover all in a narrow double and if it is 11sp then all the better (well, maybe).

Also, I run a Shimano 10sp Ultegra 6700 shifter, 6703 long(er) cage RD, and an 11-34 XT 10sp cassette on a Jamis Endura carbon plush road bike (w 34/50 Rotor Q rings). Shifting into the biggest cog is slightly slow, and it's not a clean 20 gears, but otherwise shifting is up to Ultegra/XT standard. The Endura's longish chainstays and RD hanger probably help squeeze this combo onto the bike, but it too is at limit and a bit finicky as a result. The chain is lengthened too.
I tried an 11-36 cass on the bench and it wasn't happy. Even w B spring mod, the cass teeth and upper pulley clash. I did however see someone else get the 6703 / 11-36 working on a Salsa Vaya (or Surly LHT?) presumably w a longer RD hanger. 
On the Endura I also tested an XTm772 9sp shadow w an 11-36 (w the 10sp Ultegra shifters). Shifting was good, but not great like the the Ultegra 6703 with a 32 or 34. I don't want a 36 on that bike anyway.
As a bench test, I hooked the 6700 10sp shifters (still on the Endura) to the XT m772 9sp RD and the 11-40 10sp cass (still on the AWOL) and it shifted really nice (on the stand). So nice that I would consider running the Shimano set up.

Which brings me back to why I'm here... I stick with the SRAM 10sp ultra wide double that works well UNLESS the XTR (or upcoming XT) 11-40 11sp can be mated to a higher quality road shifter AND shifts as well or better (than my 10sp) AND is dependable AND doesn't require new wheels. The main reason to switch is the gaps on the 10sp 11-40 are large and the 11sp really solves this. I'm also hopeful that it will offer a clean gear or two more, maybe all 22 and factory sharp shifting!

Reality check - the jumps on the 10sp aren't that bad. Somehow people ride the GDMBR on single speeds, surely I can handle it. Given the cost of an 11sp hydro upgrade, I believe I'm gonna wear out my 10sp stuff first.
Furthermore, if I messed w gears less and rode more I might be fine with standard combinations. Ha.

Hope this helps some fellow gear geek. Ken :^)


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

Thanks for the info, Ken! Sounds like the Jtek Shiftmate could solve most of these issues if they came out with the proper ratios. Or Shimano and SRAM could get their acts together and produce at least one derailleur that is compatible with both their drop bar shifters and MTB cassettes. Thinking the CX1 11-36 cassette and maybe a 46/30 crank would be the best option right now to gear down a stock Ultegra 11 setup.


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## kward541 (Jan 1, 2013)

Hey MWarner57, Good point. I forgot about the JTek ShiftMate. Like the RD cable bolt / cable position trick, only ShiftMate uses a dual radius inline pulley, which may be better. Some riders (per forums) are happy with this mod (bolt mod or JTek), but of all I've seen, none were running 11sp. I didn't see the right ShiftMate there today, but you're right, they're really close.
Have a nice ride.


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

I'm currently running a Force CX 46-34 (replaced the 36 w a 34) with Rival 22 shifters, x9 type 2(clutch) mid cage RD and ultegra 11-32 11sp cassette and it shifts as smooth as butter.. And the lack of chain slap is a bonus. 
I was thinking of swapping to the new 11-36 cassette as this bike is primarily my xc bike (my enduro 29 is just too much bike for the majority of our local trails in Bend,OR) because occasionally I find myself either exploring sandy atv trails or the occasional super long climb where one more gear would be appreciated.. However we just got one of the new xtr 11-40 cassettes in the shop and I'm considering mounting it up for a test run.. If I do, I'll let everyone know how it works out..

In summary, you can definitely run SRAM 11sp road shifters with 10sp mountain dérailleurs with either SRAM or Shimano road 11sp cassettes. The only funkiness with my setup is the RD guide pulley is about an inch in front of the cassette cluster (gobs of chain wrap)
Due to it being so far forward, I'd imagine the RD may not clear the chainstay and/or dropout in the 11 cog on SOME frames. Just FYI


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

vokeswaagin said:


> I'm currently running a Force CX 46-34 (replaced the 36 w a 34) with Rival 22 shifters, x9 type 2(clutch) mid cage RD and ultegra 11-32 11sp cassette and it shifts as smooth as butter.. And the lack of chain slap is a bonus.
> I was thinking of swapping to the new 11-36 cassette as this bike is primarily my xc bike (my enduro 29 is just too much bike for the majority of our local trails in Bend,OR) because occasionally I find myself either exploring sandy atv trails or the occasional super long climb where one more gear would be appreciated.. However we just got one of the new xtr 11-40 cassettes in the shop and I'm considering mounting it up for a test run.. If I do, I'll let everyone know how it works out..
> 
> In summary, you can definitely run SRAM 11sp road shifters with 10sp mountain dérailleurs with either SRAM or Shimano road 11sp cassettes. The only funkiness with my setup is the RD guide pulley is about an inch in front of the cassette cluster (gobs of chain wrap)
> Due to it being so far forward, I'd imagine the RD may not clear the chainstay and/or dropout in the 11 cog on SOME frames. Just FYI


funny, but Zinn was writing about this just today. Technical FAQ: Cracked carbon seatposts and more - VeloNews.com


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

So, will a 10-speed SRAM RD work with 11-speed shifters and the CX1 11-36 cassette?


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

mwarner57 said:


> So, will a 10-speed SRAM RD work with 11-speed shifters and the CX1 11-36 cassette?


maybe. A Wifli RD may clear the 36, depending on your derailleur hanger. Short cage derailleur probably won't work no matter what you do. 10sp mtb derailleur should work.


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## mwarner57 (Jul 27, 2006)

Let me clarify that will a 10-speed MTB derailleur work with an 11-speed cassette?


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

mwarner57 said:


> Let me clarify that will a 10-speed MTB derailleur work with an 11-speed cassette?


should be good


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

mwarner57 said:


> Let me clarify that will a 10-speed MTB derailleur work with an 11-speed cassette?


Yes.


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## Hdpearson13 (Nov 19, 2013)

Genevelle, has just came out with road bike brake shifter combo for the shadow and saint derailers. Mine a 11-36t ten speed. But imagine that a 11 speed shift may be out or might be out in future. This is all off top of my head but remember reading over the shifter brake for shadow zee. Unfortenetly my bike has wcs carbon riser bar and had to save a bit for that.


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## kward541 (Jan 1, 2013)

Sorry, I believe some of this is clear above, but PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.

1. The SRAM 11sp road shifter will work with a SRAM mountain 10sp derailleur (on an 11sp SRAM/Shimano road cass).

2. The Shimano 11sp road shifter will work with a Shimano road 10sp rear derailleur (on an 11sp cass).

3. And since the 9sp Shimano XT m770/772 rear deraillers are 10sp road shifter compatible, then it should (in theory) work with an 11sp Shimano road shifter as well.

4. And if that's so, then the XTR m9000 11-40 11sp cass might just work with either a Shimano or SRAM 11sp road shifter.

I'm running an 11-40 10sp (Apex shifter, XO 10sp RD & Leonardi/SRAM cass, 30/46 RotorQ road double on an AWOL - see other post on pg 1) and believe this is really worth testing. It's a stretch, but if my logic is correct, it might work great.
Thanks


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

kward541 said:


> Sorry, I believe some of this is clear above, but PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> 1. The SRAM 11sp road shifter will work with a SRAM mountain 10sp derailleur (on an 11sp SRAM/Shimano road cass).
> 
> ...


All of the above is incorrect. Both Shimano and SRAM claim (I have not verified) that their 11 speed shifters will not work with 10 speed derailleurs (mtb or road). Also the cassette spacing on a 11 speed MTB cassette is different from 11 speed road. There is no 11 speed road shifter/derailleur combination that can be used for 11 speed mountain cassettes.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

#1 is correct


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## ljsmith (Oct 26, 2007)

spsoon said:


> #1 is correct


I have heard a lot of people say that, but SRAM says their 11 speed shifters won't work with 10 speed rear derailleurs. I also have yet to see anyone actually doing it.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

11 speed MTB (XX1) is not compatible, but that is the exception. The rest of their MTB and road derailleurs use Exact Actuation, which is marketing-speak for "they have the same pull ratio". So as long as your shifter matches your cassette, it's all good. The CX1 mech is even spec'd as both 10 and 11 speed compatible.


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## evo233 (Jun 13, 2007)

FWIW, and just to make this thread more confusing, 

Recently installed one of the 11spd SRAM 11-36t cassettes on a customers bike with an ultegra 6800 group (GS/mid cage RD) and it worked no problem, didn't even have to max out the B screw and could cross chain with out issue (he uses a standard 50-34 up front).

Granted this was on a custom Falconer steel CX/gravel bike with a reasonably long RD hanger so not saying it will work in every situation, but it will sometimes at least.


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## evo233 (Jun 13, 2007)

Also regarding SRAM RD's, seen a 10 spd RED RD matched with 11spd road shifters with no issues, and SRAM's marketing says CX1 RD's work for 10 or 11 as well, so while maybe not official, compatibility doesn't seem to be as big a deal as with shimano stuff.


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## gsa103 (Sep 1, 2014)

kward541 said:


> 2. The Shimano 11sp road shifter will work with a Shimano road 10sp rear derailleur (on an 11sp cass).
> 
> 3. And since the 9sp Shimano XT m770/772 rear deraillers are 10sp road shifter compatible, then it should (in theory) work with an 11sp Shimano road shifter as well.


2. is incorrect. The cable pull changed when Shimano went to 11-speed. 
3. is also incorrect by extension.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

My gravel rig is set up with a 40t chainring and an 11-36t cassette. Shifters are SRAM CX1 (11s). The cassette is their 1X Wonder model that fits 11s road hubs. Super-happy with the setup.


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## talabardio (Oct 6, 2009)

All of the SRAM stuff that is Exact Actuation™ is compatible regardless of wether they have it marked as 10 or 11 speed, road or mountain. The mountain rear derailleurs don't have a barrel adjuster on them, though. The only limitations are the obvious ones; road derailleurs can only handle a cog set of a certain size, etc. The 'X Actuation' gear such as XX1, X01, etc have a different cable pull and are not compatible with anything else.


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## talabardio (Oct 6, 2009)

*XX1 modified to Exact Actuation?*



talabardio said:


> All of the SRAM stuff that is Exact Actuation™ is compatible regardless of whether they have it marked as 10 or 11 speed, road or mountain... The 'X Actuation' gear such as XX1, X01, etc have a different cable pull and are not compatible with anything else.


Hot off the press! Boo cycles claims at NAHBS that: "Another cool thing they figured out with this build was that you can hack XX1 rear derailleurs to work with CX1 drop bar shifters. Nick wanted the wider gear range for the Crusher in the Tushar, where there are bigger climbs, but the CX1 rear derailleur won't clear the larger cogs on an XX1 cassette. But, the XX1 derailleur's movement didn't jibe with the CX1 shifters&#8230;until they found you could determine the pull ratio by putting the CX1's derailleur cable loop and mounting it on an XX1 rear derailleur. By swapping that piece (the black plastic bit that the cable wraps around between the adjustment bezel and the derailleur's pinch bolt), you get the XX1′s bigger pulley offsets with CX1 shifter compatibility." Very intriguing - can you just replace that one part in the back and make an XX1 rear mech work with Exact Actuation shifters? Too cool!

Boo writes further: "...it's the piece that the RD cable threads around and is bolted to. This is not a barrel adjuster, it is literally where the RD cable bolts to the RD--that curved piece of plastic is interchangeable between SRAM derailleurs and we will pull the CX1 piece off and attach to an XX1 RD for Crusher and other hilly Colorado riding."


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## mgreene888 (Oct 21, 2013)

mwarner57 said:


> Is this possible? One of the Shimano reps gave a "maybe", but haven't found any confirmation:
> _Can I use the XTR M9000 cassette on my 11-speed road setup?
> 
> _I am late on this but I am running:
> ...


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## montana_ben (Oct 26, 2010)

evo233 said:


> FWIW, and just to make this thread more confusing,
> 
> Recently installed one of the 11spd SRAM 11-36t cassettes on a customers bike with an ultegra 6800 group (GS/mid cage RD) and it worked no problem, didn't even have to max out the B screw and could cross chain with out issue (he uses a standard 50-34 up front).
> 
> Granted this was on a custom Falconer steel CX/gravel bike with a reasonably long RD hanger so not saying it will work in every situation, but it will sometimes at least.


Thanks for that (sent you some rep). Planning to use my Crux (ultegra 6800) for singletrack and steep forest service road exploring this summer, and just switching out the cassette would be the easiest way to pick up a pretty low gear, and an easy swap back for racing in the fall...


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## kward541 (Jan 1, 2013)

*SRAM GX 2x11*

Update - All of the above Specialized AWOL 11-40 tinkering is now less interesting w the release of SRAM GX 2x11 10-42 cassette. I'll probably switch to Rival hydraulic brifters. And again I plan to push my T limit luck with a 28/42 (Rotor Q ring), but SRAM specs a 12T difference crank, so 14T probably will work. Q rings further push the system about +2T. However, on paper it's less stupid than what I'm already riding and if it works, it will reduce an already low gear by ~10% (knee says thank you) and high by ~1%, so what the heck, GX ASAP. Let ya know.


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## Zibwag (Apr 10, 2012)

*Incorrect*



ljsmith said:


> Unfortunately SRAM 11 speed road is also incompatible with mountain derailleurs. The manufacturers are making it much harder to mix and match these days! I just put hydraulic discs on my Dirty Disco, and since I am using an X0 type 2 rear derailleur, I had to stay with 10 speed S-700 shifters.


That is incorrect. Sram road 11 speed has a cable pull of 3.1 and a RD ratio of 1.3, that is true of Sram 10 speed road or MTB. You should have no issues running Sram 11 speed road shifters with a 10 speed RD.

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-force-1-rear-derailleur


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## _geralt (May 14, 2007)

*XT M8000 + Sram road 22?*

Want to go single chainring on my CX (Trek Crockett frame).
Save version is 1x10: Sram 10s brifters, Sram X.9 Type2 rear d., XT 11-36 cassette and NW 38t chainring.
But I've realized that I can use the new 11s M8000 XT cassette 11-40, which could provide with 40t chainring wider range than 38/11-36 (both low and high gears).
So now comes the question:
Can I use* Sram road 22 brifters / Sram 10s RD* (both EXACT ACTUATION so will work together) *+ Shimano mountain 11s cassette*? Is the cog pitch the same on mountain and road cassettes?


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

Short answer, yes.
I was running Rival 22 shifters, x9 typ2 RD with a Shimano XT 11-36 11sp cassette on my last CX bike.. The only issue was getting into the 36 sometimes took a couple tries.. The RD was COMPLETELY maxed out in the 36.. The parallelogram simply could not move any farther inboard.. Infact I even put a 1mm spacer on the freehub body before the cassette to slightly improve the shift up to the 11th cog..

Edit: come to think about it I was running an ultegra cassette not an XT..

Maybe this will help?
http://blog.artscyclery.com/science...ce-behind-the-magic-drivetrain-compatibility/


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## trauma-md (Nov 22, 2004)

_geralt said:


> Can I use* Sram road 22 brifters / Sram 10s RD* (both EXACT ACTUATION so will work together) *+ Shimano mountain 11s cassette*? Is the cog pitch the same on mountain and road cassettes?


YES!

The SRAM 10 speed RD will definitely work with 11s (22) SRAM shifters.

ALL 11speed cassettes are interchangeable with all 11speed shifters. SRAM or Shimano will shift any 11speed cassette. Mountain/Road, SRAM/Shimano all have the same cassette spacing. I have used SRAM XX1 to shift 11s Shimano cassettes and vice versa. NO problem at all.

You must match (SRAM/Shimano) the shifters/derailleurs. You also need to make sure your RD can handle the cassette you're using.

Freehub bodies are also an issue and can be confusing as well. 
-11s MTB cassettes will fit on ANY 10/11 speed freehub (road AND mtb). 
-11s ROAD cassettes will ONLY fit on 11s ROAD freehubs.


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## _geralt (May 14, 2007)

Thank you guys for confirmation.
I've read the theory on artcyclery but wanted to get some real world experience. I'm still considering the cheaper 1x10 38t/11-36 or more expensive but also wider range so more useful 1x11 38(40)/11-40.


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## vokeswaagin (Sep 1, 2010)

Could always go Praxis 11-40 10s cassette if you want to remain 10s..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

You will need SRAM 11 speed road shifters and a SRAM 11 speed rear derailleur to make it work. None of the Shimano stuff has been cross compatible since 9 speed.


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## canbmw (Dec 22, 2013)

^ That is cool. I think the 10sp RD has to be "Dynasys" to work with the 11sp road shifters.
Any shifting issues?
May I ask what chain/crankset/chainrings you are running? Is that a 2x11 setup? Cross bike?
Thanks


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

A 'RoadLink' from Wolf Tooth Components will allow about any road RD to do an 11-40 cassette 1x or 2x, but you won't have any additional tension from the derailleur for chain management. Never tried it, so no comments.


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## GRAVELBIKE (Oct 7, 2006)

If folks are considering SRAM's 1x drivetrain, you can read my long/er-term impressions here.


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## rickcin (Jul 16, 2010)

I also like the concept of the single crank and have read that it is gaining in popularity for a bunch of reasons. I was deciding to upgrade by Cannondale CX in order to get a bike with disc brakes and internal cable routing when I encountered the single crank models. The more I read the more I thought as being the perfect candidate for such a bike.
I am an older rider who usually rides on asphalt and usually never exceed 22 mph or so. I could ride for days and never come out of my smaller chainring and it is only a 10 speed. The only thing missing on my current bike would be one lower gear for climbing and with the new single crank, I will be slightly lower.

I was determined to purchase a new bank with a 1x, so I passed up the Niner RLT and went for a Kona, Private Jake, sight unseen and hopefully I will love it. I should have it within another week or so.


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## donnieboy (Jan 20, 2014)

mwarner57 said:


> Is this possible? One of the Shimano reps gave a "maybe", but haven't found any confirmation:
> _Can I use the XTR M9000 cassette on my 11-speed road setup?
> 
> Maybe. It should clear your spokes and fit on your 10-speed and 11-speed (with a spacer) freehubs, but your rear derailleur will likely be incompatible with the 40t cog. However, some clever folks have figured out that a longer rear derailleur B-screw can be a cheap hack to make it work._
> ...


Have you tried it on your roads?
If you need to change the gearing, I know from experience that a b-type screw on the "long" cage 6800 RD can be tightened, which will move the RD jockey cage away from the wheel center to align the jockey wheels with a 36t low gear on an 11sp shimano compatible mtb cassette such as XT, IRD, SRAM, KCNC etc.

That was a mouthful wasn't it?!

You MAY be able to do this with lower than 36, but I can't confirm, so that is at your own risk. I've always thought if I needed that low of a gear it really meant I was fat and externalizing my real problem!

Remember to be nice to staff at the LBS, discover who is the most skilled mechanic and bribe him into testing and assuring he has done it. Ignore most people on this forum answering replies without demonstrating how to solve the actual problem. Some people over value their own skills or lack thereof. Many are NOT speaking with reason, unfortunately.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

donnieboy said:


> Have you tried it on your roads?
> If you need to change the gearing, I know from experience that a b-type screw on the "long" cage 6800 RD can be tightened, which will move the RD jockey cage away from the wheel center to align the jockey wheels with a 36t low gear on an 11sp shimano compatible mtb cassette such as XT, IRD, SRAM, KCNC etc.
> 
> That was a mouthful wasn't it?!
> ...


Use a "Roadlink" from Wolf Tooth to put a road RD into position to handle a 40t cassette ring.


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## kward541 (Jan 1, 2013)

*10sp Ultegra 6800 max cog, XT m772 alternative.*

Based on my personal experience, that of local shops and forum posts, the Shimano 6800 long cage RD will handle up to a 34t cog.

I run this on a Jamis Endura (w/ favorably long RD hanger, medium length chainstays, 50/34 and proper chain length). It's ok if big to big ring crosschain happens, there is no chain slop in the lowest gears, the B Spring isn't maxed & it's dependable. Shifting from the 9th to 10th cog is slightly slower.

*36t cog* - I bench tested this setup w/ a 36t cog, but no amount of tuning will get the upper jockey pulley to "properly" clear the 36t cog. At best, there is .5mm jockey pulley to 36t cog clearance), but it's all stretched out, flexes excessively, was reluctant to shift from the 9th to the 10th cog and shifting up on, and back off of the 36t grinds, hangs, pops and "chings". Not a happy RD. It sounds dangerous, or at least like an expensive walk home, so I'll heed the warning.

A 9sp *XT m772* long cage RD works great w/ the 36t (on this 10sp Endura).

Hope that helps.


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

kward541 said:


> A 9sp *XT m772* long cage RD works great w/ the 36t (on this 10sp Endura).


+1

We have done the m772 RD swap for setups using 10 speed Shimano road shifters.


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## kward541 (Jan 1, 2013)

Exact Actuation SRAM 11sp road shifters, SRAM 10sp RD and Shimano 11 sp mountain cassette are compatible. If your Crockett has longer chain stays and RD hanger, it will help your cause, but you won't know for sure 'till ya' try. I bet (w/ your money) it works awesome.

On my AWOL, I tried and X9 w an 11/40 (10sp) but it flexed quite a bit, so I tried an XO which works quite well.

Enjoy


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## canbmw (Dec 22, 2013)

Just swapped my 46/36 rings (FSA) and 11-28 (Ultegra 11sp) out on my 2015 Norco Threshold.
I wanted to use Mavic Crossmax SL's but the road cassette didn't fit.
I need to buy a Wolf Tooth Road Link for my Ultegra short cage derailleur. I now have a 44T (Wolf Tooth) x 11-40 XT setup with Shimano RS685 hydraulic shifters. Shifts perfectly!


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## mt.nebo.mtb (Feb 12, 2011)

Tinkering: Attempting the ?Impossible? Part 2 ? Lindarets RoadLink Review | I use the Road Link on my 11sp 105 with 46/34 front and XT 11/40 rear. I also use this hack to make the 105 RD into a long cage. Technical FAQ: A drivetrain hack, tire pressure, and road discs - VeloNews.com Works perfectly


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

ljsmith said:


> Unfortunately SRAM 11 speed road is also incompatible with mountain derailleurs. The manufacturers are making it much harder to mix and match these days! I just put hydraulic discs on my Dirty Disco, and since I am using an X0 type 2 rear derailleur, I had to stay with 10 speed S-700 shifters.


i have a bike with RED22 shifters /disc brakes and Force1 long cage RD and 10-42 cassette...
so, it's done ...


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## deepakvrao (Mar 5, 2009)

eliflap said:


> i have a bike with RED22 shifters /disc brakes and Force1 long cage RD and 10-42 cassette...
> so, it's done ...


Can you share which RD this is? And which cassette? Do you run a double crank?


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## pgm83 (Oct 13, 2014)

deepakvrao said:


> Can you share which RD this is? And which cassette? Do you run a double crank?


It's the SRAM Force1 rear derailleur of the long cage variety. It's essentially their newer 11 speed mt bike rear derailleur but operates on the shifter cable pull of the new 11 speed road shifters. I have read there's just too much chain wrap involved to run this with a double crank. I'm guessing you could probably do the long cage with an 11-36 cassette and do a double crank up front though. Again, just guessing.

https://www.sram.com/sram/road/products/sram-force-1-rear-derailleur. The Rival version is half the price.


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## zmjones (Sep 9, 2015)

mt.nebo.mtb said:


> Tinkering: Attempting the ?Impossible? Part 2 ? Lindarets RoadLink Review | I use the Road Link on my 11sp 105 with 46/34 front and XT 11/40 rear. I also use this hack to make the 105 RD into a long cage. Technical FAQ: A drivetrain hack, tire pressure, and road discs - VeloNews.com Works perfectly


i also have this setup. 46-36 x 11-40, ultegra chainset and fd, 105 gs rd, xt cassette


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## msedbaue (Mar 16, 2014)

To use shimano MTB Derailleurs with road shifters buy a Tanpan!

Tanpan - wolftoothcomponents.com


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## EddNog (Nov 14, 2012)

_geralt said:


> Want to go single chainring on my CX (Trek Crockett frame).
> Save version is 1x10: Sram 10s brifters, Sram X.9 Type2 rear d., XT 11-36 cassette and NW 38t chainring.
> But I've realized that I can use the new 11s M8000 XT cassette 11-40, which could provide with 40t chainring wider range than 38/11-36 (both low and high gears).
> So now comes the question:
> Can I use* Sram road 22 brifters / Sram 10s RD* (both EXACT ACTUATION so will work together) *+ Shimano mountain 11s cassette*? Is the cog pitch the same on mountain and road cassettes?


This definitely can work. I was using a SunRace 11-42 10-speed cassette with a GX 2x10 long cage RD and 48/34 compact double chainrings up front with a Red Yaw FD, and old Force 2x10 shifters. The same front and rear derailleurs would work fine with an M8000 11-40 cassette and Rival 22/Force 22/Red 22 shifters. I also ran that same setup with 50/36 oval ring combination.

I am also running an M8000 11-46 cassette with Force 1 hydro shifters, a Rival 1 long cage RD and a 44T narrow wide ring on another bike and it works beautifully.

-Ed


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