# Pike Coil or air for Clydesdale



## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm looking at a Pike for a bike I'll be building up soon. I'm wondering if the dual air might be a better choice for a clyde than the coil, due to the ability to fine tune sag and adjustability. I weigh appx. 250lbs @ 6'4". I will be beating on this fork, rocks, jumps, etc. 

I have run coils in the past and have always gone with the heaviest set of springs. I assume also that the Pike coil does not have an aux air chamber to fine tune sag. My concern is that with the coil I may blow through travel too quickly.

Thanks in advance--and yeah, I searched this topic already.


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## bobsaget (Feb 17, 2008)

I'm 260lbs and I decided to go with the tora 318 solo air. I'm really glad I went with it for the exact reasons you mentioned. No need to have it serviced to make it stiffer; just add air!


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## Duckiller (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm 265 and just blew out my Tora 302 air (most likely a defect from the factory but I am upgrading anyway). Fedex will deliver today a Marz All Mountain 2. It is supposed to be Clyde proof, I liked it because it has a spring but it is supplemented by Air for the fine tuning. Seems like the best of both worlds. They are also a smoking deal at Jenson right now. From what I have heard you also cannot go wrong with a Nixon for Clyde Worthiness.


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## gumper (Oct 24, 2006)

215 and I've been riding a Tora solo air 318 for a year. I don't beat it up much, but after 2000 miles it's like new. I run it at around 8 bars.


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## Duckiller (Jan 23, 2008)

If you are going to beat on it I would go with the coil. Initial setup us a little harder with having to change the spring but once it is set you can forget about it. Pure air forks have trouble standing up to abuse from people our weight. That is why I like my AM2, the air is just to supplement the spring and runs at a really low relative pressure. I have it super firm and it is only at 70 psi compared to the Tora I had that was too soft for me at 180psi. I wanted a Pike but the killer deal I got I could not turn down, closeout for $265 bucks.

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/FK402A06-Marzocchi+All+Mountain+2+07.aspx


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

The Pike AIR is much more rigid then the Coil. Got em' both, the coil is very plush and the AIR is stiff and only gets stiffer with adjustments. I perfer the Pike AIR


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## PaintPeelinPbody (Feb 3, 2004)

sodak06 said:


> The Pike AIR is much more rigid then the Coil. Got em' both, the coil is very plush and the AIR is stiff and only gets stiffer with adjustments. I perfer the Pike AIR


Do you have the X-Firm spring in the Coil Pike? I've heard its pretty darn stiff, even for people over 200lbs.


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## sodak (Oct 10, 2006)

PaintPeelinPbody said:


> Do you have the X-Firm spring in the Coil Pike? I've heard its pretty darn stiff, even for people over 200lbs.


I should have clarified that I am not a clydesdale. I am about 180 geared up. With that said, I have the factory spring in the coil. It is plush, very.... I am sure that the X-firm spring would make all the difference.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

I am 230 and ran the PIKE Dual Air UT and now have a Lyrik coil. The pike was much more tuneable, and I like that. If they had a Dual Air Lyrik (or anything with a UT option that wasn't coil), I would ahve that instead.


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## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

Sounds like the airs are much more tuneable. From what I remember of my previous coil, it was pretty plush. If I could get the right spring I'm guessing I'd be better off with a coil.

Plush vs Tune, Plush vs Tune . . . . .

Thanks for all the responses.


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## EricB (May 3, 2007)

Duckiller said:


> If you are going to beat on it I would go with the coil. Initial setup us a little harder with having to change the spring but once it is set you can forget about it. Pure air forks have trouble standing up to abuse from people our weight. That is why I like my AM2, the air is just to supplement the spring and runs at a really low relative pressure. I have it super firm and it is only at 70 psi compared to the Tora I had that was too soft for me at 180psi. I wanted a Pike but the killer deal I got I could not turn down, closeout for $265 bucks.
> 
> http://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/FK402A06-Marzocchi+All+Mountain+2+07.aspx


I have been thinking about upgrading from the MZ Comp that came with my bike. I am 285. Thats 20 pounds more than you. Is there a spring kit for that available? Are you installing one?


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## Ricky D (Jan 12, 2007)

I'm 205 with a Pike Coil. I have the X-Firm spring and plan on replacing it with the Firm. The X-F is really stiff for the riding I do. I ride over a lot of rocks and roots and it really beats me up. When I had the Medium spring it came stock with, it was a real plush ride but I would bottom on 3 ft drops and the front end would take steep dives when braking on descents. I'm thinking the Firm will put me right where I want to be. For someone weighing 250, the X-Firm should fit the bill.


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## EricB (May 3, 2007)

The pike is out of my price range right now. That's why I am looking at the Marz All Mountain on sale there.


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## Ricky D (Jan 12, 2007)

Sorry, I meant my post for the OP.


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## Switchback XC (Jun 2, 2007)

Hey RD,

I just recently replaced the Reba Race fork on my 07 Trance 1 with a new Pike 454 Coil. I'm currently at 260 lbs and the medium spring that comes standard in the Pike is way to soft. This is supported by Rock Shox fork setup chart. However, it does eat up the trail on the fast bumpy sections. Downhill though, the travel is quickly eaten up.

When I have the U-Turn set to 120mm of travel, it sags all the way to 95mm. I'm still experimenting with it. But it seems like the travel is wasted due to sag. I also haven't been able to get a good lockout/preload adjustment setting yet. 

But again, I've only had it for a few weeks, so I hope I can get a better setting by changing to a stiff/x-stiff spring. However, if I could go back and do it again, I'd probably have gotten the dual air chamber version. Makes me really miss the adjustability of the Reba Race.

Anyway, best of luck on whatever you decide.

Switch


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## Duckiller (Jan 23, 2008)

The way the All Mountain is set up you do not have to change the spring, that is what the air is for. The air is just for fine tuning the spring, I have 65 psi in the air chamber and it is a little too stiff. Gives you the best of both Air and Spring.


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## bobsaget (Feb 17, 2008)

Nice lookin bike Duckiller.

if you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh? Because I'm 250lbs and I just want to know how the all mountain would work for me. I'm on a Tora 318 Solo air and I'm looking for another budget fork for my AM build I want to start.

Thanks.


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

Switchback XC said:


> Hey RD,
> 
> I just recently replaced the Reba Race fork on my 07 Trance 1 with a new Pike 454 Coil. ...
> When I have the U-Turn set to 120mm of travel, it sags all the way to 95mm. I'm still experimenting with it. But it seems like the travel is wasted due to sag.


There is a reason that all forks sag- you need "negative" travel too to keep the bike on the ground thru dips in the trail. That travel isn't lost. This is the idea of suspension. Besides, if you get some air, then you will get full travel out of it when you need it, right?

edit: Sagging 25% is about right for XC riding, and given that you are sagging 25/120mm, I would say that the spring is a bit hard when travel is set at 120 (because that is 20% sag). If the PIKE coil is like my lyrik coil (I had the dual air pike) then the spring rate rises as it is U-Turn-ed, but it shouldn't stiffen that much (that it is oversprung for your too-small spring).

And when you say "Downhill though, the travel is quickly eaten up" - I would say that you should increase your rebound if you can, as a temporary remedy.


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## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks to all that commented!


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## Overthebars (May 22, 2006)

Cool Thread.
I am 6'-4" 230 #'s and I am looking at the Pike Air also. I think I am going to buy used and send it in to Push and have it 'tuned' to my weight and riding style. Then hopefully I won't have to mess with it much out on the trail. Travel is about the only thing I want to mess with out on a ride.... all the different tuning you can do with these new forks just kind of scares me to be honest.... i'm definitely no pro.


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## Random Drivel (Oct 20, 2006)

EricB said:


> The pike is out of my price range right now. That's why I am looking at the Marz All Mountain on sale there.


The Z1, if you can find one, is a better fork.

Upate: Ended up with a different frame, so am now looking for a Fox 36/Lyric/Domain/ or Marz z1. Marz 55? Not so much.


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## Duckiller (Jan 23, 2008)

bobsaget said:


> Nice lookin bike Duckiller.
> 
> if you don't mind me asking, how much do you weigh? Because I'm 250lbs and I just want to know how the all mountain would work for me. I'm on a Tora 318 Solo air and I'm looking for another budget fork for my AM build I want to start.
> 
> Thanks.


I am 265 6'3". It has more than enough poop for me.


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## Techfreak (Feb 17, 2005)

I'm not the heaviest guy (~190) but I just put a Lyrik Solo Air on my FR bike. I have always used coil until now, but I am really digging the air. It ramps up beautifully and is super tuneable. I have already hit a number of good sized drops and larger gaps on it with control to spare. Very impressive. A few years ago I do no think I would have trusted air, but things have changed a whole lot. Go air.


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## mollystocks (Mar 24, 2008)

I recommend the Fox Vanilla 32. It comes with three springs with different weights and has more adjustments than the Pike. The only reason to go with the pike air or coil is for the 20mm through axle. If you still want a QR the Fox is the best set up. I weigh in at 210 or more depending how much I visit Chipotle. I ride hard, or more or less bang into obstacles hard with frequent air and it takes it. I was riding a Revelation, which isn't a bad fork but it doesn't compare to the Vanilla. Just my thoughts.


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## Overthebars (May 22, 2006)

mollystocks said:


> The only reason to go with the pike air or coil is for the 20mm through axle.


Yeah, cause the rest of the fork is junk?? Your statement goes against about 95% of what I've read about the Pike on this forum, but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion.


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## la tchounga (Nov 26, 2007)

Ricky D said:


> I'm 205 with a Pike Coil. I have the X-Firm spring and plan on replacing it with the Firm. The X-F is really stiff for the riding I do. I ride over a lot of rocks and roots and it really beats me up. When I had the Medium spring it came stock with, it was a real plush ride but I would bottom on 3 ft drops and the front end would take steep dives when braking on descents. I'm thinking the Firm will put me right where I want to be. For someone weighing 250, the X-Firm should fit the bill.


wow ! I'm searching all the forums in the world to resolve this problem.
I'm 208 lbs ,6"3& looking for an aggressive all mountain fork.
I've always had problems with with tuning air forks (black sup'air...:madman: !!!, even the 2006 36 talas !)for me , no air fork can beat the dynamic qualities of coil forks.
my actual fork is a 32 vanilla 130mm ; I'm very satisfied with it, but I want more travel.

that's why today I 'm hesitating between the pike coil and te 32 vanilla (2007 or 2008).
are you going hard on trails ? cos like a lot of guys I wonder if the extra firm spring is stiff enough on rocky & steep trails.
thanks


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## CharacterZero (May 19, 2004)

la tchounga said:


> wow ! I'm searching all the forums in the world to resolve this problem.
> I'm 208 lbs ,6"3& looking for an aggressive all mountain fork.
> I've always had problems with with tuning air forks (black sup'air...:madman: !!!, even the 2006 36 talas !)for me , no air fork can beat the dynamic qualities of coil forks.
> my actual fork is a 32 vanilla 130mm ; I'm very satisfied with it, but I want more travel.
> ...


If you go with the PIKE (and I am biased in favor of it) I would say that the FIRM spring, not the X-firm, is what you will need. Do a couple of searches here, it has been discussed!


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## Overthebars (May 22, 2006)

I agree on the Pike Coil, but get the extra-firm spring. I'm 6'-4" 225 and I have the x-firm and use ALL of the travel.... it is a buttery smooth fork. I was hesitant that it might not be compliant enough with that spring, but it has really impressed me.


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## la tchounga (Nov 26, 2007)

thank you guys for your answers !
I think I gonna get both springs ( firm & extra firm) so I won't be disappointed


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## markymark (Oct 30, 2004)

I'm 270 and have a pike 426 with the extra firm spring - it is perfect for the AM riding I do. It is very easy to change the spring. The most important thing to remember is: *When you take the top cap off watch out for the 3 ball bearings under there, don't let them spill out all over the place like I did, they are very hard to find on the floor!*. I have a marzocchi AM1 on my other bike and the pike eats it for breakfast. Go the coil!


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## Jlar (May 29, 2006)

I'm 215#'s plus gear running the 454 air and loving it. So much smoother, stiffer and adjustable than my old vanilla. I didn't want to mess around with different springs and wanted the adjustability of tuning the fork for the wide variety of riding I do so I went Air.


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## AL29er (Jan 14, 2004)

Some good reading
http://forums.mtbr.com/search.php?searchid=6753163

As stated in the posts above, I like the air version. The coil is plush, but I found it too linear. The coil fork with proper sag would bottom out on 3-4' drops. That may be just fine if you never go higher that 3' 

The air is just more tuneable to the ride. If I am doing a dh race I can set it soft. If I am running it in an xc race, pump it up. General ride, somewhere in the middle. Of course if I am playing around and dropping stair sets I can add 10psi and go big. With the coil u-turn it is face value, no fine tuning.


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## unfriendlyGiant (Apr 15, 2008)

*AM-1 Not stiff enough*

I have the Am-1 2007, weight 250lbs and run 65psi in the ETA side and I am still able to sag the fork 50-70% standover braked on a steep downhill drop. That doesn't leave much travel for a big drop at all so I have to run a little faster compression and tend to get sticky reaction.

Would be nice to have a stiff spring to get more linearity out of the top end of the spring but marz refuses to support, so although I enjoy the fork, I certainly wouldn't recommend for a clyde.

I gotta believe the 65psi will wear the seals out much faster.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

I just installed a Revelation U-Turn coil with the remote pop-loc. I don't think I'll ever go back to air. My air forks just ramp up way too quickly and the last 1/3 of the total stroke just gets way too harsh and stiff. Being 230 pounds does not help the situation either. 

The coil feels great throughout the stroke, although there is a little ramp up right near the very end. However, the x-firm spring is just a *tad* too stiff, and I get just under 20% sag. I can *just* get full travel out of the spring, but I want better small bump performance, so I ordered the firm spring. I also have the remote pop-loc and it's really a neat way to fine tune the fork. I think I'd opt for a slightly softer spring with the ability to dial in more compression. Having a slightly too stiff fork will mean having to run the compresison wide open all the time just to tame the spring i.e. no tuning options.

R/
D


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## e1eveN (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm 240lbs and have a Pike 327 Coil fork on my Pitch. Seems to be really well suited to me. I got the Large frame so I think it has a heavier spring in it. Going over roots and rocks at speed doesn't bother it at all, along with small jumps and heavy compressions.

There's always going to be something better, but I really like it.


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## Overthebars (May 22, 2006)

That's interesting Konish, I upgraded to the Extra-Firm spring on my Pike 454, and my sag sits at 25-30% and I weight 225. Seems really compliant and plush, and uses all of the travel, so I definitetely wouldn't want a lighter spring....


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## Ricky D (Jan 12, 2007)

Update to my earlier post... I decided to keep the X-Firm spring. I played around with the rebound and after slowing it down a bit, the ride feels less harsh and much more like I was expecting from this fork.


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## Konish (Dec 26, 2006)

Overthebars said:


> That's interesting Konish, I upgraded to the Extra-Firm spring on my Pike 454, and my sag sits at 25-30% and I weight 225. Seems really compliant and plush, and uses all of the travel, so I definitetely wouldn't want a lighter spring....


No, I hear ya...it's just barely on the boderline of being stiffer than I want. Maybe the geometries (is that a word?) on the bikes is enough to cuase the diff in sag. Obviously, I can shift my weight on the bike and get 30% sag, but not when seated in a normal riding position.

I have to qualify my earlier reply in saying that I don't do huge jumps...seriously, I'm talking no more than the really tall curbs and smallish retaining walls. Getting full travel *is* possible, but for now I'd rather have a plusher feel for my style of riding. Also at this point I pretty much have to run the compression wide open for the "liveliness" that I want, which essentially makes the compression knob a "locked-to-unlocked" affair with very litle difference in feel from the tweener positions.

The plus side is that the springs are really easy to change, so if I don't like the firm, I cn always go back... 

R/
D


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