# Merlin "Joe Murrey" # 2421



## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

I have a Merlin "Joe Murrey" Designed frame size small (14 inch) with serial #2421located on the inside of the dropout. Does anyone have any info on these bikes. the people at merlin were no help other than "_Looks like you have an original merlin there_." It is in excellent condition I will post pics of it in the morning.

Anyhow my eleven year old has taken to riding it and I am sure it will never be the same if I let him continue. He just doesn't understand how to love the Ti.

I am thinking of selling it and getting him a Fat if I can find one. If not Rocky mountain has a nice chromo hardtail that would be excellent for him. I want him to learn finess and control before he throws a leg over a full susp. bike and becomes handicapped for life.

Anyhow I digress, does anyone have info on the merlin?

Thanks!


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

What, no pictures? I do not believe.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

2421 sounds like an early 90s Merlin serial number. Prices vary and your best bet is to put it on Ebay with a low starting price and let it run.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

If he's beating on the bike and riding it...then I would think that _is_ the proper way to love Ti.

You've got a slightly older Merlin. Its no gold mine, but their value is consistent. eBay at $.99 and let it ride. How much you get will depend on if you're good at eBay, or you suck at eBay.


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## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

*The Pictures*

Here are some pics, taken in my dirty garage, these will haunt me forever.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Just be mindful of #3

http://www.mtbr.com/messageboard/postingguidelines.shtml


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## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

*Merlin web site no help*

I just checked the web site and the serial numbers end at 139 for the 89 bikes and start at 3518 for the 90 bikes. I do know that it came from the original Cambria shop. I am the second owner and the bike had been in storage for 16 years.


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## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

*Thanks Rumpfy*

I am more interested in the history of the bike than anything. I've never been in it for the money. I love anything Fat Chance, Merlin, Titanium or steel, hardtails and singletrack.


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## djmuff (Sep 8, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> If he's beating on the bike and riding it...then I would think that _is_ the proper way to love Ti.


I agree wholeheartedly.

And what? You want to sell this (maybe) and buy your son a Fat? Like that's any less fragile? Makes no sense man. If he really has no respect (dropping the bike when he dismounts, ghostriding, banging into curbs, whatever), then buy him a cheap Hardrock to thrash on. If he can learn how to treat the bike (any bike, not just because it's a Merlin) with respect, then let him ride it.

Just don't let him take it to school without a big lock. Or three.

So yeah. Keep it.


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## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

*Some of the other bikes*

These are the other bikes I have pictures of in my stable. I'll post them because I am online tonight. One is the YO CBO which i am the original owner we have been dating since 91. The other is the Monster Fat, I had to have it!!!


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## hossegor (Dec 5, 2008)

i am in a simillar situation, my merlin has a serial 29xx...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

hossegor said:


> i am in a simillar situation, my merlin has a serial 29xx...


Ok...


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## badbushido (Jan 4, 2006)

This is a very nice Merlin you have.
It's made like an early one. I wouldn't give that much on the serial no. I don't think they continued to do U-brake frames up to the nineties. The only reason I see to do so, is the very small frame size.
It seems to fit your son very well. Since you can't scratch a titanium frame let him have fun with it. Any other bike you're going to buy for him will be worse.
*If you're going to sell it on ebay, we need to look at it in the german forum with excessively extended seatpost. Please beware!*


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Buy him a cheaper steel bike - titanium is brittle and will snap. If he gets into jumping and gets to be a big guy and does seious big hucks he'll probably end up snapping that frame. I've seen it happen half a dozen times with Ti BMX frames that weigh about the same as your Merlin does.

If fact Eastern was making a pro size 1200.00$ Ti bmx frame a while back and they wouldnt even warranty it it was so light...if you broke it, tough sh!t


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

jeffgothro said:


> titanium is brittle and will snap.


Yes...it's much like dry spaghetti...I would go with something more flexible and forgiving like aluminum. :thumbsup:


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

sho220 said:


> Yes...it's much like dry spaghetti...I would go with something more flexible and forgiving like aluminum. :thumbsup:


Yup, thats why Ti spokes usually snap before SS ones do.

As an added note, I wouldnt buy him a killer boutique frame like Fat Chance, Salsa, Ritchy...etc, seriously, do you really want to abuse such a nice frame, you might consider a DJ or AM/FR bike - those are generally heavyer and built to be hucked and abused and theres alot of really good ones to choose from, I would recommend a Transition Bottlerocket if you want to some suspension or a Blk Mrkt Mob hardtail.


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

Whoa wait huh, doofer bikes in a Merlin-labeled thread?

I guess I need to read more.

...ah forget it.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> titanium is brittle and will snap.


wrong, wrong, wrong.

anyway, I say give your offspring that beautiful bike.


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## elrancho66 (May 31, 2007)

*Designed by Murrey?*



ranxirox said:


> I have a Merlin "Joe Murrey" Designed frame size small (14 inch) with serial #2421located on the inside of the dropout. Does anyone have any info on these bikes. the people at merlin were no help other than "_Looks like you have an original merlin there_." It is in excellent condition I will post pics of it in the morning.
> 
> Anyhow my eleven year old has taken to riding it and I am sure it will never be the same if I let him continue. He just doesn't understand how to love the Ti.
> 
> ...


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

misterdangerpants said:


> wrong, wrong, wrong.
> 
> anyway, I say give your offspring that beautiful bike.


wrong?

View attachment 418807


Heres a re-weld.

View attachment 418808


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> wrong?


yes.



jeffgothro said:


> titanium is brittle and will snap.


this statement is false. blatantly false.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

misterdangerpants said:


> yes.
> 
> this statement is false. blatantly false.


 But he posted _two_ internet pics??? What more proof do you want???


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

misterdangerpants said:


> yes.
> 
> this statement is false. blatantly false.


I've seen broken frames first hand, but dont take my word for it, go ask your LBS, I've spoke to a couple LBS's in the past and they have told me exacly what I'm telling you. If you still dont believe it and think Ti is some super strong un-breakable magic metal, well, thats on you, good luck with that, some men you just cant reach...lol


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

You're confusing breakable and brittle.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> You're confusing breakable and brittle.


And using the material in a proper application, proper welding/purging...anything breaks if it's made poorly.


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

We saw our share of broken Ti frames. Mostly Litespeed but Merlin too. IIRC, Fat had issues with their early Ti Fat. All the broken Ti frames we saw were either close to a weld, which suggests embrittlement, or where there had been chain suck. The chain suck breaks were surprising at first until two seperate aerospace engineer friends pointed out that Ti is sensitive to being scratched. Notch strength I think is what they referred to. This is the problem Jeff Jones bars were having a while back from what I understand.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Rumpfy said:


> You're confusing breakable and brittle.


If you say so...thats one reason why they break though, because they are brittle. It doesnt have to do with being poorly made, - most ti bikes arnt and ti metal has a certain memory to it, furthermore its just a scientific fact, if you ride it hard and push it beyond its limit, it will break - and not just ti, but any metal. I've only found one frame in my entire life that was almost truly unbreakable, and I own it, others have broke them. but its extremely rare and almost unheard of, ironically the frame is called "Stronger Than All" - the frame just by itself weighs 8 lbs, is almost zero flex, large diameter tubing and gussets. I've actually challenged people to break it doing any bike stunt - and if they do they can have my warantee frame free, when I tell them its a Standard frame they shut up right then and walk away (in fact, the warantee is transferable - only company I've ever seen do that) - to this day no ones broke it.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> thats why they break though, because they are brittle.


titanium is a ductile metal.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

misterdangerpants said:


> titanium is a ductile metal.


How did you reach that conclusion? Thats one of the main reasons Ti is so expensive, the manufacturing processes used, its hard to machine, weld, and has to be done in an enclosed environment by a trained specialist.

Actually, you know what...nevermind.


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## misterdangerpants (Oct 10, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> How did you reach that conclusion?


I didn't, science did. I had nothing to do with it.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)




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## elrancho66 (May 31, 2007)

*stuff breaks,,,,,,,,,all of it*



jeffgothro said:


> I've seen broken frames first hand, but dont take my word for it, go ask your LBS, I've spoke to a couple LBS's in the past and they have told me exacly what I'm telling you. If you still dont believe it and think Ti is some super strong un-breakable magic metal, well, thats on you, good luck with that, some men you just cant reach...lol


 Ti bike frames have broken, as have Al, cheap steel, high quality Cro-Mo's, Carbon Fiber and Stainless Steel,,,,,same for all brands and configurations of pedals, rims, seatposts, spokes, h-bars, stems, brake levers and so on,,,,,,,,ride it and take your chances,,,,,I have a Ti SS frame that has 10,000+ hard offroad miles,,,,,also have an old Fat Chance mt bike built with True Temper Cro-Mo that has at least 20,000 miles, from the trails of the SW to fully loaded tours in Mexico, where the roads are often rougher than many singletracks.I pedaled a piece o crap Magna Mt Tamer "mt bike" to college, built with plumbing pipe quality steel,,,,,,,,still going today most likely somewhere in Flagstaff. I broke 3 Specialized M2 frames in the early 90's and have a dozen broken Cannondale frames in my shed,,,,,,,
but these companies have sold 1000's of these bikes over the years,,,,,material failures happen, it's unavoidable:thumbsup:


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## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

*merlin Ti*

Well the Merlin is gone. I sold it to a guy who absolutely had to have it. He had one in college and was sentimental to it, so I sold it.

I bought my son a Giant Trance 2 and he loves it. He is growing like a weed and would have outgrown the Merlin very very soon anyway.

BTW I never thought Titanium was to be purchased for the purpose of it being indestructable (It is not!) Steel is stronger, or for how light it is, Aluminum is lighter. Titanium has a very high modulus of elasticity, and memory, it is also a non corroding metal. It absorbs vibration and looks *****en.

Everyone knows that chicks dig titanium! Right?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ranxirox said:


> Well the Merlin is gone. I sold it to a guy who absolutely had to have it. He had one in college and was sentimental to it, so I sold it.


Thanks for using us to find a buyer. 

My money says its being parted out.


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## ranxirox (Mar 24, 2007)

*Positive mental outlook*

I didn't use this forum to sell it. I responded to a "wanted ad" the guy placed on craigslist. He is riding it and has sent more than one e-mail praising his NEW old ride.

I was using this forum to learn about the bike, I love the bikes, I started riding in 84 on a Stumpjumper Then a Fisher Montare xt in 85. Moved to a GT Avalanche then a Bridgestone MB-1.

I make enough money without selling of my old bikes! I feel if the bikes should be ridden and not stored in my garage!!!

BTW- I was just looking at the photo of your GT Psyclone, I had one in 92 awesome bike. Mine was stolen in Lake Tahoe. I replaced it with a Yo Eddy.


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

ranxirox said:


> I want him to learn finess and control before he throws a leg over a full susp. bike and becomes handicapped for life.


So much for learnin' them skillz! The Trance should be a fun ride but will teach him all kinds of bad habits...


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Oh I see the Psyclone - found it on google image search, its top 2-3 results and have used that pic as an example a few time...hey Rumpfy...SELL, SELL, SELL...you really dont want the Psyclone anymore anyway, they arnt that great a bike.:lol:



ranxirox said:


> \
> BTW I never thought Titanium was to be purchased for the purpose of it being indestructable (It is not!) Steel is stronger, or for how light it is, Aluminum is lighter.
> 
> Everyone knows that chicks dig titanium! Right?


Thats what I kept trying to tell that one guy...lol

STEEL IS THE BEST...BAR NONE - IMO.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ranxirox said:


> I didn't use this forum to sell it. I responded to a "wanted ad" the guy placed on craigslist. He is riding it and has sent more than one e-mail praising his NEW old ride.
> 
> I was using this forum to learn about the bike, I love the bikes, I started riding in 84 on a Stumpjumper Then a Fisher Montare xt in 85. Moved to a GT Avalanche then a Bridgestone MB-1.
> 
> ...


Ah, I stand corrected then. Good to know the new owner is enjoying it. You should have kept the Merlin and the MB-1 though....and the Yo Eddy. 

Awful feeling having something stolen from you. I enjoyed my Psyclone a lot. Heavy, but pretty neutral on the trail.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

jeffgothro said:


> Oh I see the Psyclone - found it on google image search, its top 2-3 results and have used that pic as an example a few time...hey Rumpfy...SELL, SELL, SELL...you really dont want the Psyclone anymore anyway, they arnt that great a bike.:lol:
> 
> STEEL IS THE BEST...BAR NONE - IMO.


I did sell it.

I've got my Ti, my Carbon, my Aluminum. All different and good in their own ways. But ya...steel is hard to beat.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

DAMN!!! Well, hope the new owner likes it.


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## Mick0r (Jul 25, 2004)

Titanium has a high modulus of elasticity.....

And it is BRITTLE? Bwahahaaa

Nice thinking there.

Oh, and steel rusts, and is heavy... Unless it is tuned to racebike proportions.

Steel is fine in some applications. But Titanium is a beautiful frame material, I've had my 92 Merlin from new, and it rocks.


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## M-Train (Jan 12, 2008)

Hey Ranx,
I also have a '92 Monster Fat. I bought it from the original owner and have the signed certificate from the Fat Chance employees who built it. Several years ago, I put a 1" RockShox Judy and rode the hell out of it all over Sedona and Flagstaff. Later, I restored it to rigid and commuted for a few years. Just recently, I converted it to a rigid singlespeed and I'm fixin' to put some miles on it today. The paint is chipped and the chainstays are pretty dinged-up, but it still looks sweet. I still have all the original parts except the rear brakes which were lost somewhere along the way. Anyway, not to ramble too much, once I got on the singlespeed, my excitement for biking was re-ignited. If can find my girlfriends camera, maybe I'll post some pictures. Peace, M.


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