# Best Nuetral LED for Mountain Biking



## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok I figured I would start a seperate thread since mixed in with the Yinding thread, it was getting lost.

The topic is, whether the XM-L2 U2 3C is the perfect a neutral tint for mountain biking. I like nuetral tints just not the loss in perceived brightness. Is there a real perceivable advantage in switching to nuetral?


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

Original Yinding XML2 T6 3B 10°+25° optics...moded










KD 2x XML2 U2 white ,probably 1D, 25°+25° optics...moded
https://www.kaidomain.com/product/details.S022641









both around 1000-1100 lumen

Sorry, it is winter, so foliage and flowers are missing.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I wonder how much if a difference between T6 3B vs U2 3C. The latter should be brighter and I imagine a B vs C difference is minor


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

I prefer neutral over nuetral LEDs, heh.

3C was very popular over at BLF in their very successful recent group buy. They even did a T6-4C, but it cost extra and didn't have access to many it seems.

GB-BLF X6-SE OP update- last round of GB is shipping out. | BudgetLightForum.com


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## hernluis (Nov 16, 2008)

Neutral 3c


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I built my last helmet light with 3C and it is really nice.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Ok Dora ordered the Yinding with XM-L2 U2 3C. Presale starts soon. If anyone has a 3C example please post it.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

GJHS said:


> I wonder how much if a difference between T6 3B vs U2 3C. The latter should be brighter and I imagine a B vs C difference is minor


Yes the difference can be minor to none, depends on actual production batches. Since they are in neighbour classes (B is on the left and C on the right) possibilities are equal to be most apart (in it's class) or most together ie. very same tint.

It is exactly the same case with brightness. U2 can be (let say 10%) brighter or they can be equal. On average they are different, of course.


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

Speaking from flashlight experience and little bike light experience here:

I've never been very fond of the 3C myself. When 4C became widespread I bought quite a few and modded some lights with it. This is what I use in my EDC light. I enjoyed the 4C until I tried a 5B1. The 5B1 just makes things POP out like crazy to me. The color rendition seems about perfect to me. It's not a high CRI LED (I've never tried a high CRI one). One minor downside is that the 5B1 is only available in an XM-L2 T5 bin. In my mind though the minor loss of lumens is worth the increase in color rendering. FastTech sells the XM-L2 T5 5B1 LEDs.

I'm not sure that I have any beamshots of a 3C (or at least none I can recall at the moment), but I do have shots comparing a 4C to a 5B1.

Here's my EDC which is an XM-L T6 4C @ 2.1A (photo link here):










Here's my SolarStorm X3 modded to XM-L2 T5 5B1's on Low (Low on the X3 is about as close to that 4C shot above - different beam patterns make it difficult to compare - photo link here):










-Garry


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## bhocewar (Mar 15, 2009)

I bought XML2 U2 4C from Fasttech. Installed it in Romisen zoomable flashlight. I was disappointed with its tint. Maybe I didnt get
the right bin or that dome zoomable optics dont get along with this led.

I gave the flashlight to my buddy, but I will try to take a beam photo as soon as possible.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

@garrybunk what didn't you like about the 3C? I'm hoping it will be much easier on the eyes than the harsh, to me, very white cool white. If so maybe we can get a 3C head lamp like the XT40 for a complete set that's easier on the eyes


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## garrybunk (Feb 12, 2014)

I felt the 3C was barely neutral. It's good for people who want to stay close to the cool white end of the spectrum. If I remember correctly, it tends to look too yellow to me. I have a 3C light I could get beamshots of, but it won't be anytime soon. 

-Garry


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Having same (or nearest) tint is a good idea. Mixing to distinct ones is not very pleasant, to my eyes at least.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Having same (or nearest) tint is a good idea. Mixing to distinct ones is not very pleasant, to my eyes at least.


This is a misguided idea like people claiming you should match front and rear suspension travel for no good reason (try that idea on a hardtail then...).

As long as you're mixing an inferior tint with a more favorable tint, you'll get a fuller spectrum with a higher CRI than using a single matching tint. The average blended tint will be closer to target tint AND fuller due to the different spectra in each tint. This is why high-end projection and camera systems use a mutli color system rather than a single emitter or CCD. The effect obviously isn't as pronounced the closer the tints (we're not talking R vs G vs B), but it's still slightly better than sticking with matching inferior tints.

The lighting industry is using color mixing to get high CRI and high efficiency at the same time. A dual tint solution is better than a single one:

Color mixing enables high CRI and high LED efficacy - LEDs


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Yes if you mix in the same light in the same optics, but not when you have two for about 1 meter separated sources of light moving each on it's own direction having different optics (ie. helmet and bar light).


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

ledoman said:


> Yes if you mix in the same light in the same optics, but not when you have two for about 1 meter separated sources of light moving each on it's own direction having different optics (ie. helmet and bar light).


You'll get some effects in the overlap borders, but typically the overlapping area is bigger than the non and borders are located mostly off the primary FOV in cycling. The color shadow effects are minimal given how close the tints typically are in cycling lights.

Technically even if the tint matches between two cycling light sources, they will have different optics like you point out and you can get multiple shadows which will make things look slightly blurry/distracting with the separation between bar and helmet (not as big of a deal in single lamps with multi optic/reflector setups given the small separation). This is all in theory, because you don't see many people posting on here about their multi lamp setups making things look distracting/blurry.

I would assume horizontal separation is a much bigger deal than the vertical separation in creating distracting color or multiple shadow effects. Fortunately, the horizontal separation in multi lamp cycling use is minimal.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Since I don't know the actual bin of the neutral LED in my torch I'll only add that when I shine it up against a white wall in my home and compare it to a torch with a normal white bin that the neutral LED looks more yellow. However, when I use the neutral LED in the field "There is no perceived yellow tint" ( at least to my eyes ). The only difference is that the area of illumination appears more colorful or natural if you may. The added effect of neutral LED's is that their is less reflective glare to hamper close vision BUT also less light to reflect into the distance ( the downside ). This is one of the reasons why the light appears to be not as bright. This shouldn't be a problem through as long as you have enough total lumen output to compensate for any distance issue. Once again though this is speculation on my part as I don't have a full neutral set-up to know for sure.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

ledoman said:


> Having same (or nearest) tint is a good idea. Mixing to distinct ones is not very pleasant, to my eyes at least.


+1 on this. One of my older bar lights is a very cool white 6up XPG. It does not "mix" well with the 3C XML helmet light. Sure it is usable, but it is a distraction.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> +1 on this. One of my older bar lights is a very cool white 6up XPG. It does not "mix" well with the 3C XML helmet light. Sure it is usable, but it is a distraction.


Any way you can post an outdoor beam shot of the 3C here? It doesn't have to be too fancy


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

I've never done a beam shot of that light. If I get some time between the holiday events, I'll try to do one


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## epic-gamer (Aug 18, 2012)

Not mine but I think its a good comparison between 1A vs 3C 
Keep it mine its XML-T6, so how it differs from XM-L2 U2...may be not much at all?
I say the colour is faily close to my 1A


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

When I first decided to get "real" lights (as opposed to the AA based ones I had been using), I did my research over on BLF and CPF. It was a few months before I found this forum. The first light I bought was a Shadow JM-07 for the bars, and I ordered it with a Neutral 3C tint. Shortly after I began reading here, I bought a Xeccon S12 for my helmet. It was definitely a much cooler LED.

One thing I did notice out on the trails was that when the mist/fog started to risk, the blueish tint of the S12 seemed to highlight the fog, but the warmer 3C seemed to cut through it. I remember points when I turned off the S12, and rode with the JM-07 because I could see down the trail much better.

So I'll vote for the 3C.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

The Yinding nuetral tint XM-L2 U2 3C is now on presale, use coupon "Yinding". You will like the price.

Light Head
Yinding 900 Lumens CREE XM L2 2 LEDs 4 Modes Headlight Cycling Lamp ( 4 x 18650 Battery Natural White )-29.51 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

Full Set
Yinding 900 Lumens CREE XM L2 2 LEDs 4 Modes Headlight Cycling Lamp Set ( 4 x 18650 Battery Pack Natural White )-42.41 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com

You requested a Neutral Tint Yinding, Done :thumbsup:


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Vancbiker said:


> I've never done a beam shot of that light. If I get some time between the holiday events, I'll try to do one


Thanks


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

GJHS said:


> You requested a Neutral Tint Yinding, Done :thumbsup:


Great, thank you a lot! The price is nice too. Hat off to you. I've made one preorder. 
I hope I've helped you somewhat.

For the rest of you and 3C tint. Compare pictures above, You can see nice difference in color rendering and less unpleasant silver glare. Epic thank you for the pictures. T6 or U2 it doesn't matter. It looks the optics is not quite the same, but it's ok to get feeling of tint difference.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Ian_C said:


> When I first decided to get "real" lights (as opposed to the AA based ones I had been using), I did my research over on BLF and CPF. It was a few months before I found this forum. The first light I bought was a Shadow JM-07 for the bars, and I ordered it with a Neutral 3C tint. Shortly after I began reading here, I bought a Xeccon S12 for my helmet. It was definitely a much cooler LED.
> 
> One thing I did notice out on the trails was that when the mist/fog started to risk, the blueish tint of the S12 seemed to highlight the fog, but the warmer 3C seemed to cut through it. I remember points when I turned off the S12, and rode with the JM-07 because I could see down the trail much better.
> 
> So I'll vote for the 3C.


I'm wondering what version of the S-12 you bought. The original was with XM-L U2 and very bright white. Later version was with XM-L2 T6. ( they might be using the L2 U2 now, not sure about that ) . The first XM-L2 (T6) was a bit more warmer in color but not quite neutral but than again I've never seen a thrower with a neutral bin LED.

I'm glad to hear than the more neutral tint seems to work better in the mist/fog. Keep in mind though that no helmet lamp should really work that well in fog. Even back in the day when I use to use halogen ( very warm tint ), a helmet lamp is crap in the fog. That said the halogens didn't light-up airborne particulate matter like the LED's do.

Boy that brings back some memories. I remember riding in the fog more than a couple times at night but that was years ago. Riding in fog is really kind of fun because it's SO DIFFERENT and so spooky. Fun but not if you're riding somewhere that you are unfamiliar with the trails.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

GJHS said:


> The Yinding XM-L2 U2 3C is now on presale, use coupon "Yinding". You will like the price.
> 
> Light Head
> Yinding 900 Lumens CREE XM L2 2 LEDs 4 Modes Headlight Cycling Lamp ( 4 x 18650 Battery Natural White )-29.51 and Free Shipping| GearBest.com
> ...


Thanks GJ. On a side note, the Chinese really know how to screw up an ad. The first ad ( without battery ) looks as though it includes a battery until you read the product description below. They should change the title ad to say, " ...( for 7.4-8.4 volt battery/ battery not included ) You know it's funny but D/X at times does the same thing.

They should also change the word, "natural" to neutral but than I guess I'm nit-picking.


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

Hey Cat, it is the original XM-L U2 version, so fairly cool by comparison to the XM-L T6 3C in the JM-07.

Since I'm still up (haven't slept yet), I'll say:

Merry Christmas to All,
And To All, A Good Night!​
I hope Santa was good to you, and left something bike related under the tree.


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

In for 2 with a thank you note to Dora- 50.28 with coupon.
And thank you, also with additional when I test it.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

eb1888 said:


> In for 2 with a thank you note to Dora- 50.28 with coupon.


You're Welcome rft:


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

I was looking at the Fenix BC30 and was impressed by its beam. I recently discovered it is a neutral white light not cool white, which surprised me because it has a great color. It's not too yellow not too white.
















Does anyone know what tint it is? I asked Dora if she could get, she can and for the package price she quoted, it's a cool light. Anyone have experience with it?


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

It is hart to tell. It might be around 3 something. The best way would be to make picture side by side with known ones, something like this:









(source: Flashlight Wiki)


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Just an FYI, it's too late to cancel the Yinding 1A orders, they have already shipped or are just about to.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

Cat-man-do said:


> Thanks GJ. On a side note, the Chinese really know how to screw up an ad. The first ad ( without battery ) looks as though it includes a battery until you read the product description below. They should change the title ad to say, " ...( for 7.4-8.4 volt battery/ battery not included ) You know it's funny but D/X at times does the same thing.
> 
> They should also change the word, "natural" to neutral but than I guess I'm nit-picking.


Thanks for the heads up. I asked her to remove all battery info in the heading for the Light Head only option. The description explains it just fine. I also asked her switch it to Cool White and Neutral or Neutral White


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## Waldens (Mar 5, 2013)

Neutral White LED features improved penetration power and color rendering with a color temperature of about 4000K, which makes object looks full of detail and definition. With a low color temperature and long wavelength, the Neutral White LED works beter than Cool White LED in penetration dust, rainwater,mirage etc. Also, it achieves greater illumination distance.Another advantage is that the Neutral White LED improves the colour rendition of objects, which helps a lot for the judgment of outdoor landforms. Neutral White LED still belongs to white light, thus,there will be no change for the original color of the object. According to practise and research, it possesses the excellent illumination effect in outdoor activities.


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## kk0517 (Dec 23, 2014)

__
https://flic.kr/p/15453904614
 here is some pictures I've got for my bike light. Neutral white and nice experience.


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

Wandered over from CPF/BLF after ordering the cool white Yinding, because I needed a bicycle light better than my ancient halogens, then belatedly learned about the goings-on here -- and --thank you all, now I can order the neutral light head too. 

Dang, now I don't have enough bicycles.....


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## Ian_C (Sep 27, 2012)

The links and coupon code on are in post 391 of the "Original/Real Yinding Found" Thread.

Welcome to the group.


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## GJHS (Jul 10, 2013)

hankering said:


> Dang, now I don't have enough bicycles.....


Always nice to have two: one for a spare and/or one to invite a friend along.


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## kk0517 (Dec 23, 2014)

Rommend Nitefighter BT40S Neutral white 4 Cree XPG2 LEDs :thumbsup::thumbsup:1600lumens


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## hankering (Dec 28, 2014)

That nitefighter thing looks awfully expensive compared to the others recommended.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

Pretty annoying that GB still hasn't shipped my neutral Yinding I preordered before Xmas and yet my neutral X3 shipped today...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

kk0517 said:


> Rommend Nitefighter BT40S Neutral white 4 Cree XPG2 LEDs :thumbsup::thumbsup:1600lumens
> View attachment 951025
> View attachment 951026


Nightfighter is supplying me with a BT40S for review. I'll be added the 40S to the "Neutral" line-up I plan to review when the weather permits. Currently I'm shopping around for a new compact digital camera that will function well while taking night photo's. Hopefully I'll be able to keep that purchase under $100.


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## juhake (Oct 26, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Nightfighter is supplying me with a BT40S for review. I'll be added the 40S to the "Neutral" line-up I plan to review when the weather permits. Currently I'm shopping around for a new compact digital camera that will function well while taking night photo's. Hopefully I'll be able to keep that purchase under $100.


I recommend new or second hand Canon, a model that supports CHDK.

CHDK Wiki



> Professional control - RAW files, bracketing, full manual control over exposure, zebra mode, live histogram, grids, etc.


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

Little late to the party, but here are my thoughts on tints. 2c is an improvement over cold white, but still on the white end of the spectrum. 3C is nice and a very large improvement over Cold white, 4C being my favourite. 5C (only available in XML 2 T5) requires a considerable drop of in lumens, and to me is a little too warm.

A lot of people are suggesting color rendition gets better with warmer tints, however it actually doesn't really improve much at all, it really just comes down to a tint shift and is highly subjective based on the kind of terrain and user preference. Warmer tints do penetrate fog however, and do seem to improve depth perception as a Cold white tint does seem to render everything in 2D.

Mixing tints do improve CRI, however I'd only consider this if the LEDs were in the same light and part of the same beam profile, as having 2 separate lights with 2 different beam profiles is going to overlap and provide artifacts which will be distracting.

Regarding the drop off in lumens, it's only at 5C that I really see a significant drop off, and personally I find 5C to be too warm and wash out objects in an unrealistic orangey/browny/yellowy kind of colour. Would be nice perhaps lighting up the dead leaves of autumn as the colours match, but otherwise not my personal preference.

I'm also hearing a lot of people suggesting XML(2) U2 3c/3b neutral white? As far as I'm aware this led does not exist as the warmest tint in the U2 bin is only 2c/2b, and in U3 only cold white is available (1A-1D). 3C/3B would be considered at the lower end of the spectrum in Nuetral white, and is only available in the XML(2) T6 bin.

If you're chasing lumens go with cold white, although the actual difference between XML(2) T6 and XML T6(2) U3 wouldn't be perceivable to the human eye.

If I appear to be speaking a different language, this link might help:

Cree - Flashlight Wiki


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