# Need a good torque wrench.



## circlesuponcircles (May 10, 2011)

Just bought a new carbon bike. (Ibis Mojo HD). It is my understanding that I overtorquing on can easily damage carbon. I would like to buy a simple torque wrench to be safe. I'm looking for cheap and reliable. How do these work? Do i need to buy the wrench and tips separately? Is this really necessary? Any recommendations? 

Thanks!


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## banks (Feb 2, 2004)

Shimano Pro @ $120 with case & allen bits are the best deal.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

The Harbor Freight 1/4" drive clicker torque wrench works well and is cheap.


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## reptilezs (Aug 20, 2007)

depends what components. i use them mostly on cf posts, cf steerers, cf stems and cf bar. all cranks


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## TechnicianX (Aug 27, 2011)

I have the Nashbar 1/4 in. torque wrench. I'm not a big fan of Nashbar, but I have been happy with this wrench. It comes in a case with 5 hex bits and a Torx bit. When you reach the proper torque the handle "gives" a little bit. It is easy to use and adjust. I think I got it for $49 on sale and I've built several bikes with it.


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## BORDERCOLLIE (Sep 1, 2011)

price point Sette brand torque wrench is working fine for me, probably came from the same chinese factory as the Nashbar wrench? make sure you have the same size socket drive as the wrench, adapters throw off the torque readings.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

BORDERCOLLIE said:


> price point Sette brand torque wrench is working fine for me, probably came from the same chinese factory as the Nashbar wrench? make sure you have the same size socket drive as the wrench, adapters throw off the torque readings.


Looking at that thing, the tooling used to make it is the same as the HF TW.

Just saying.


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## gorgar3141 (Nov 19, 2007)

I own the Harbor Freight 1/4" drive and 3/8" drive torque wrenches. They've worked great for years. The 3/8" has a higher max torque and works for pedals, BB, and other parts with a higher torque rating. I use the 1/4" for everything else. You can pick up both and several socket/torx/hex sets from Harbor Freight and still be under the price of other torque wrenches.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

"Cheap" and "reliable" are not two words you will find describing the same torque wrench.

PB Swiss makes good digital torque wrenches for the lower torque applications. Stahlwille makes the whole range. There are other good brands out there, but none of them are less than 300$ for a small torque wrench.

Cheap torque wrenches, are not worth the money. They are off calibration out of the box, and it just gets worse from that point.

A torque wrench should at least be calibrated from the factory, and checked like once a year.

If the above sounds too expensive and / or troublesome, stick to torque by feel. Anything else is a waste of money.


Magura


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Mr.Magura said:


> "Cheap" and "reliable" are not two words you will find describing the same torque wrench.
> 
> PB Swiss makes good digital torque wrenches for the lower torque applications. Stahlwille makes the whole range. There are other good brands out there, but none of them are less than 300$ for a small torque wrench.
> 
> ...


A lot of people's first hand experience, mine included, says otherwise. This isn't a satellite you're working on here, it's a bike. The HF torque wrenches gives good, reproducible result, and is certainly better than trying to do it by feel.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

bad mechanic said:


> A lot of people's first hand experience, mine included, says otherwise. This isn't a satellite you're working on here, it's a bike. The HF torque wrenches gives good, reproducible result, and is certainly better than trying to do it by feel.


A non-calibrated torque wrench, is exactly that, non-calibrated. So when using it, you really have no clue about what you get. In that case torque by feel is just as accurate.

To trust in something that is not calibrated, is pretty much like a lottery. 
Some may be fine, but most are not, even from the same brand. It is usual to see non-calibrated torque wrenches as much as 25% off the mark.

If you think of it the other way around, it may become more obvious. 
Would you expect the industry to spend a substantial amount of money on tools and calibration, if a 50$ wrench would be just as good, and calibration was not needed?

Magura


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

What I've found is a good, cheap torque wrench to be adequate for a bike, and a lot better than trying to do it by feel. I've also found the good, cheap torque wrenches I've bought to be quite accurate when I've tested them (which is quite easy to do). I also have a hard time believing the HF torque wrenches aren't tested for accuracy coming out of the factory. In fact, my experience, and that of others, tells me they are.

You theory might say we all need $300 torque wrenches, but our experience says our $20 torque wrenches are doing just fine. Sorry, but experience trumps theory.


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

bad mechanic said:


> What I've found is a good, cheap torque wrench to be adequate for a bike, and a lot better than trying to do it by feel. I've also found the good, cheap torque wrenches I've bought to be quite accurate when I've tested them (which is quite easy to do). I also have a hard time believing the HF torque wrenches aren't tested for accuracy coming out of the factory. In fact, my experience, and that of others, tells me they are.
> 
> You theory might say we all need $300 torque wrenches, but our experience says our $20 torque wrenches are doing just fine. Sorry, but experience trumps theory.


What your experience shows you, is that you have no need for a torque wrench 

What I have explained so far, is based on facts, no theory involved. I happen to have dealt with this kind of stuff in the industrial sector.

Trusting in a torque wrench with no calibration certificate, is in the category called religion.
The same goes for any other measurement tool.

If you use non-calibrated tools in any respectable company, you're gonna have an interview without coffee.

Magura


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

Again, we're not talking about industry, we're not talking about interviewing, we're talking about working on your bike at home. You don't seem to grasp that. A HF torque wrench will still be much better than trying to do it by feel. I'm not saying not to use a high dollar wrench if it's available, or that more precision isn't good, what I'm saying is _for working on your bike, the HF and similar torque wrenches are perfectly adequate._

OP, you can either buy into what Mr.Magura is saying, or you can go by the hands on experience of a lot of riders using HF or similar torque wrenches with good results.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

The HF torque wrench comes with a calibration certificate signed by an actual person. If youve never handled one, much less use it, I don't think you can give an honest opinion of it.

Given the nature of the task, the presence of a calibration certificate, and the behavior of spring steel, the HF torque wrench performs suitably.

If I'm building airplane or racing engines, I'll probably buy something else


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## paetersen (Jul 28, 2007)

Magura- Spot on! Everything you've said I agree with.

Bad mechanic- Your argument shows that highly accurate torque wrenches are not required for bike mechanics. At that point you are better off just doing torque to feel.

The OP asked for "Need a good torque wrench." "...cheap and reliable..." That doesn't exist. You can have a good torque wrench but it will cost you. You need a good torque wrench for a lot of things that get bolted/screwed/joined together in this world. Bike parts ain't one of them. So Magura is accurately stating that good and cheap don't coexist here and if you are that concerned spend the money on a good torque wrench.

But once again the disconnect here is that even the fancy pants carbon bits are not that critical for super accurate torque readings and you can get away with using an inaccurate cheap HF torque wrench. You won't know what torque you're applying but at least all the fasteners will be within a (hopefully) acceptable range and mostly (we hope) torqued evenly. Even application of pressure is much more important that hitting a specific Nm on these fasteners (obviously within reason- we're hopefully talking to a group of industry or competent home mechanics who are not monkey-fisted).

SO... When you need a real accurate reading a cheap torque wrench **does not work**. But you can use a cheap torque wrench on a bicycle and shouldn't encounter any problems. Just don't ask for a good torque wrench for $30. They don't exist.

Now having said that, the Park wrench is pretty nice but I prefer my Stahlwille. Then again, when I am using that I am dealing with balanced rotating assemblies weighing around 100lbs spinning at around 10,000rpms.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

bing! said:


> The HF torque wrench comes with a calibration certificate signed by an actual person.


You know, there's a very good chance mine came with one as well, but I simply can't remember back 3 years.



paetersen said:


> Bad mechanic- Your argument shows that highly accurate torque wrenches are not required for bike mechanics. At that point you are better off just doing torque to feel.


What you and Mr.Magura don't seem to be grasping is there's a big gap between highly accurate and trying to do it by feel. No, a "highly accurate" torque wrench isn't required for a bike, but a decently accurate one is good to have.


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## doco (Aug 31, 2008)

TechnicianX said:


> I have the Nashbar 1/4 in. torque wrench. I'm not a big fan of Nashbar, but I have been happy with this wrench.


I also bought the Nashbar Torque Wrench, and also not a big fan of Nashbar(after getting my CC hacked from them:madmax but got the wrench for around 39.00 with a 20% off coupon, unfortunately the Nashbar hackers got several 1000.00 worth of fraudulent charges

that torque wrench was the last order EVER from Nashbar..March 2009

It looks like the Sette and Performance knock-offs and came with a certified accuracy certificate

although not as nice as the expensive ones, it does the job well for bike repairs


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## paetersen (Jul 28, 2007)

bad mechanic said:


> What you and Mr.Magura don't seem to be grasping is there's a big gap between highly accurate and trying to do it by feel. No, a "highly accurate" torque wrench isn't required for a bike, but a decently accurate one is good to have.


I'm saying exactly that. There's a huge difference between a highly accurate wrench and doing it by feel. But I'm also saying that there is *not* a huge difference between an inaccurate wrench and doing it by feel. An inaccurate wrench can have tolerance swings as wide as 25%. The biggest difference between a highly accurate and expensive wrench and a cheap one is not only initial accuracy but the ability to repeatedly give the same accuracy over an extended period of time. Like thousands of clicks. Don't forget QC, I know that my Stahlwille and snap on wrenches went through some pretty decent QC before coming to me. The things i have read about the HF wrenches leads me to believe that QC is non-existent. It is a crapshoot whether you get a fully functioning tool from them and even when you do the accuracy is not a known quantity.

I'm not saying that one of those cheap wrenches won't work, with the torque spec spread that most bike manufacturers have a cheap wrench will work, even if it's off by quite a high level of error. And it will work. I've posted before that the bike industry is getting too crazy about torque specs. I don't even bother using a torque wrench on my bikes but then again my hand has been 'trained' by hundreds of hours of torquing to spec to know what 6-7nm feels like.

What I take umbrage with is comparing the $25 wrenches to a $300 wrench and having home mechanics try to say there is essentially no difference between them. Because then, when you actually run into a project that requires very specific torque due to very tight tolerances, you will make something that goes boom, or cracks or otherwise goes tits up all the while wondering how your $25 wrench let you down.

EDIT: BTW bad mechanic: I am not disagreeing with you. I agree that for the bike world even torque is more important that specifically accurate torque and any serviceable wrench will do.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

Um, most torques wrench of reasonable quality are pretty consistent. Torque wrench accuracy isnt about repeatability, but its ability to put out the indicated value.

The ability to put out the indicated value will drift over time, but not likely in the same week or month, due to the spring weakening/ breaking-in. Thats why they are calibrated.

If you get a torque wrench that is completely out of wack, if you say youve got a feel for torque, then just compensate.

Understanding Torque Wrench Accuracy « Mountz Torque


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## Mr.Magura (Aug 11, 2010)

The point that seems to get lost in the translation, is that unless you're very unskilled, torque by hand is just as good as a cheap torque wrench. 
Most people should be able to hit a torque within +/- 25%, which is just as good as a cheap torque wrench. Repeatability by hand is for most reasonably skilled people also quite high.

Thus making a cheap torque wrench a moot point, and effectively just an expensive and clumsy spanner.


Magura


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

OP: how often do you think you will be messing with the components? I'd venture to guess not very often.

Assuming it is more frequently then yes, + or - 25% torque accuracy on carbon components is a bad idea. If you want something accurate (+/- 4%), look for one of these on sale from REI or elsewhere http://www.rei.com/product/823101/effetto-mariposa-giustaforza-ii-deluxe-torque-wrench-kit

I found one without the case for under $100 a year or so ago (I work on a lot of bikes).


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## trhoppe (Sep 3, 2008)

Save $20 right now + an extra 15% off, bringing this into the $60 range  Spin Doctor Torque Wrench Set - Torque Wrenches

It wasn't on sale when I needed tools, so I have this one + this allen set.
1/4" Torque Wrench - 20-200 in. lbs.
and
Amazon.com: Vim Tools SHM400 9 Piece 1/4-Inch Drive Metric Stubby Hex Bit Set: Home Improvement

-Tom


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

I've found the HF torque wrench to be just fine for bike wrenching. However if you have money to buy a carbon mojo HD then might as well buy a really nice torque wrench


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

You only know how much torque you put out, only after youve put it against a measure enough times. And only if you set that torque most of the time. Learned this the hard way setting the drag fishing reels. Moving around from 6, 10, 12 ,15, 20 ,30 and 40# line can confuse the senses.


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## n9tkf (Jun 7, 2010)

Calibration in simple terms is the comparision of a known to an unknown value. What most companies require is a calibration that is traceable to a national standard such as NIST in the United States. The proper way to calibrate a torque wrench is to test it with a calibrated torque wrench test that is more accurate than the torque wrench being calibrated (usually 4:1). You perform 3 or more test at a given setting, usually 20%, 60% and 100%. Most torque wrench are not calibrated under 20% of maximum value.
I looked up the specs for some of the torque wrenches mentioned and found out that the mechanical Stahlwille is +/- 4%, Snap-on mechanical is +/- 4% and the Harbor Freight mechanical is +/- 4%. Obviously the HF is cheaply made, but will suffice for bicycle work. The Stahlwille and Snap-on are high quality and more expensive but just as good for bicycle work. Not trying to start an argument here, just pointing out some facts about calibration. Just because a torque wrench is calibrated doesn't mean the operator uses it properly. Improper use can cause a torque wrench to be inaccurate.


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## NTIMD8 (Sep 3, 2011)

I have been partial to Sears Craftsmen. Usually go on sale several times a year.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

I agree - why don't people use the beam-type wrenches more? They're accurate and don't have to be calibrated. They're also relatively easy to use, and inexpensive.

I have one of the Craftsman beam-type wrenches that works well for a bike application...I probably use it a couple times per month.


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## reptilezs (Aug 20, 2007)

jtmartino said:


> I agree - why don't people use the beam-type wrenches more? They're accurate and don't have to be calibrated. They're also relatively easy to use, and inexpensive.
> 
> I have one of the Craftsman beam-type wrenches that works well for a bike application...I probably use it a couple times per month.


paralax error is an issue. the user must be looking straight at the wrench. handle must be floated on the pivot. they are quite cumbersome to use imho and i own 2 of them.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

reptilezs said:


> paralax error is an issue. the user must be looking straight at the wrench. handle must be floated on the pivot. they are quite cumbersome to use imho and i own 2 of them.


Good points; if I were a mech I'd probably invest in something better.

For everyone else (the average user) I think the beam type should be fine, so long as people keep the parallax issue in mind. I've used mine pretty regularly over the past two years and it works well. For about $20 on sale.


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## cautery (Aug 1, 2006)

I use the same Craftsman torque wrenches on our bikes that I use to work on our cars (same ones I used to build race cars with). Are there better ones... absolutely, but mine work fine.

I'm an old helicopter maintenance officer and test pilot, and we used to live by TMDE and calibrated torque wrenches... and safety wires, and rulers graduated in 1/100ths, and micrometers...

Dealing with steel.... you can "get away" with feel.

Dealing with aluminum/titanium... a SKILLED/EXPERIENCED mechanic MIGHT "get away with feel" but will likely strip some threads along the way.

Dealing with composites.... you ABSOLUTELY MUST have reliable and calibrated torque wrenches for ALL fasteners... UNLESS you are willing to risk replacing that $240.00 carbon stem, seat post, et al. that you just bought because you fractured it etc.

Not only do you need a torque wrench... you need MULTIPLE torque wrenches...

You should always strive to set a torque using a wrench where the setting is withing the middle 60% of the wrenches range to get the most accuracy.

It'd be nice if the wrench were marked in BOTH in-lb/ft-lbs AND Nm, unless you just like doing math unit conversion problems.

A torque wrench must ALWAYS be stored in a shock absorbing case.

IF you DROP a torque wrench, it needs to be calibrated again.

You should ALWAYS store a torque wrench with it set below its lowest setting... preferably with NO tension on the spring. Set the torque, torque the fastener, unset the wrench, put it BACK IN THE CASE!

Accurate torque is a DYNAMIC torque, NOT a static torque... When using a click-type, to get the most accurate reading, the "click" must come WHILE the faster is moving, and you STOP on the click.

It requires MORE torque to overcome static friction, so getting a torque click on a non-moving fastener does NOT give you an accurate measure.

And lots of other tips I am too lazy to list right now....

I have three TWs... wish I had about three more to fill in the gaps...


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## teamdicky (Jan 12, 2004)

My $50 cheapie ***** the bed a few weeks ago. Don't know why, just stopped clicking one day.

I bit the bullet and got one of these:

Topeak® Cycling Accessories










4-80 NM covers everything I do on my bike and comes with:

Allen Wrenches 3/4/5/6/8/10 mm
Screw Drivers #2 Phillips
Torx Bit T25/T30/T40
Sockets 8/9/10/11/12/13/14/15 mm
Storage Box Hard Shell

Should be here next week. Pricey, but it seems like there will be much less fudge factor involved.


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

For 100 dollars, I'd go Snap-On. Chose your poison.

Amazon.com: Snap-on Industrial Brand CDI Torque 1501MRPH 1/4-Inch Drive Adjustable Micrometer Torque Wrench, Torque Range 20 to 150-Inch Pounds: Home Improvement

Amazon.com: Snap-on Industrial Brand CDI Torque 501MRMH 1/4-Inch Drive Metal Handle Click Type Torque Wrench, Torque Range 10 to 50-Inch Pounds: Home Improvement

For 10-65 in/lbs, this pistol TW holds great value.

Amazon.com: Wheeler Firearms Accurizing Torque Wrench: Sports & Outdoors

70 bucks and you can upgrade to a Wiha.

Amazon.com: Wiha 28506 TorqueVario-S Torque Screwdriver, 10-50 Inch Pound: Home Improvement


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## mechBgon (Jan 28, 2007)

bing! said:


> For 100 dollars, I'd go Snap-On. Chose your poison.
> 
> Amazon.com: Snap-on Industrial Brand CDI Torque 1501MRPH 1/4-Inch Drive Adjustable Micrometer Torque Wrench, Torque Range 20 to 150-Inch Pounds: Home Improvement
> 
> ...


Add the Precision Instruments dial models to that list:
Amazon.com: 3/8" Dr. Dial Torque Wrench with Tell-Tale Memory Pointer - 0-150 Lb. In.: Home Improvement

Dial is fast to use (no setting or relaxing to do), gives continuous real-time readout of the torque you're applying, and is accurate and not influenced by the exact point you're applying force to. Snap-On is rebadged Precision Instruments, last I heard, pretty good quality. The 0-150 in-lb range is great for the smaller items where you'd typically worry about overtorquing something on carbon.

Main downside for me: it doesn't ratchet. Easily solved with an inline ratchet head such as Armstrong Tools 11-944.

If I were just a home mechanic doing occasional no-hurry stuff to my bike, the smaller Park Tool beam model that maxes out at 60 in-lbs would be a good value for stems, rotor bolts, and small stuff like that. Most of the benefits of dial, way less money, and the scale is expanded enough that parallax errors won't make much difference IRL.

When discussing bicycle componentry, it's important to take stuff with a grain of salt. It's not an automotive or aerospace field where there's been rigorous testing of Brand X stem with twenty different brands and models of handlebars to determine that "oh yes, 4.27 N-m,with the bolt threads and head shoulder lubed with Sta-Plex EP Red grease, results in the optimum bolt stretch to clamp 80% of the available bars on the market with an areal compressive force of blah units per blah area." Not realistic, people. If you want to be an elitist about torque wrenches, this isn't really the ideal field for it :thumbsup:


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## sakurama (Jun 1, 2005)

Mr.Magura said:


> The point that seems to get lost in the translation, is that unless you're very unskilled, torque by hand is just as good as a cheap torque wrench.
> Most people should be able to hit a torque within +/- 25%, which is just as good as a cheap torque wrench. Repeatability by hand is for most reasonably skilled people also quite high.
> 
> Thus making a cheap torque wrench a moot point, and effectively just an expensive and clumsy spanner.
> ...


I have plenty of nice, calibrated Snap-on torque wrenches and for engine building I want something good. I gotta say though, from teaching a lot of friends some basic wrenching that your thought that the "feel" of the average person is good enough is, well, just plain crazy. Seriously! The average person, given the chance, will either completely under-torque or ruinously over torque a fastener based on their fear or lack of feel.

As has been pointed out, this isn't rocket science, or engine building but bicycles. All the fasteners are marked with ranges on a carbon bike and even a cheap torque wrench will get someone in that range and is far better than chancing it by inexperienced feel. That's the issue - novice mechanics need a guide and any torque wrench is better than none. As your work becomes more critical invest in a better one.

Gregor


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

sakurama said:


> I have plenty of nice, calibrated Snap-on torque wrenches and for engine building I want something good. I gotta say though, from teaching a lot of friends some basic wrenching that your thought that the "feel" of the average person is good enough is, well, just plain crazy. Seriously! The average person, given the chance, will either completely under-torque or ruinously over torque a fastener based on their fear or lack of feel.
> 
> As has been pointed out, this isn't rocket science, or engine building but bicycles. All the fasteners are marked with ranges on a carbon bike and even a cheap torque wrench will get someone in that range and is far better than chancing it by inexperienced feel. That's the issue - novice mechanics need a guide and any torque wrench is better than none. As your work becomes more critical invest in a better one.
> 
> Gregor


Amen. Going by feel people will over torque a low torque fastener and under torque a high torque fastener.


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## Steve77 (Feb 2, 2010)

I'm reading this thread as I'm looking for a torque wrench having just stripped a bolt on my bike. It's laughable to say +/-25% is no better than feel. Trust me when it says torque it to 10Nm I have absolutely no idea how much that is. If a cheap torque wrench can get me within 25% I'll take that. Who knows how much I torqued the bolt I snapped to? 20Nm? 50Nm? 5000Nm!? Maybe a cheap wrench is no better than the feel of a professional mechanic but it'll be better than most people


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## suba (Jun 25, 2009)

Generally speaking the smaller the fastener the smaller the torque, and the other way around.No it's not rocket science, but you don't want to be descending at forty mph not knowing if your stem or bar is under torqued or over torqued. There's a pretty narrow range for many bike components. Not a lot of leeway if you want to stay within spec.

It's true that cheap and good are oxymorons especially with respect to torque wrenches. If you want something good get a Syntace. I did.


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## VFRLuke (Aug 14, 2012)

Im going to resurrect an old thread and add my $.02. Using feel to torque anything is horribly innaccurate and not repeatable. I did a little experiment one day on a machine that had a ton of bolts. We had 3 guys try to torque down 4 bolts each to 30 ft lbs. Then went behind with a wrench and checked. Even the same person back to back bolts were all over the map, and person to person was worse. 

My theory is that even a cheap torque wrench is far more accurate than feel.

I calibrated my 3/8 drive hf torque and it was spot on. I intend to get the 1/4 drive for wrenching on bicycles. Just make sure you guys are backing the spring all the way off for storage and properly using the wrench and you will be fine. 

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2


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## FullBladdy (Aug 26, 2011)

I did not notice this tool mentioned so I figured I would throw it into the mix. The Ritchey Torque Key. It is set at one torque value 5nm. When looking for a torque wrench I took a look at my carbon components to see that size and torque value I would need. For most of the important parts (stem, cleats, etc.) the recommended torque value is 5nm. This tool makes it easy to get the correct torque and other than my seatpost I can use it for my carbon bikes and parts. Little investment and better than guessing by hand.


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## dundundata (May 15, 2009)

10,000 views! How much torque does that equal??


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## aBicycle (Jun 13, 2012)

Um, dude, just get a beam torque wrench. They're cheap and you can calibrate them yourself.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

James.Hamilton said:


> I did not notice this tool mentioned so I figured I would throw it into the mix. The Ritchey Torque Key. It is set at one torque value 5nm. When looking for a torque wrench I took a look at my carbon components to see that size and torque value I would need. For most of the important parts (stem, cleats, etc.) the recommended torque value is 5nm. This tool makes it easy to get the correct torque and other than my seatpost I can use it for my carbon bikes and parts. Little investment and better than guessing by hand.


Except you can buy the Harbor Freight torque wrench for about the same price, and the torque wrench is a lot more versatile.


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