# Experimental Prototype testing ground.



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I´m adding this thread just because I do so many different prototypes, the stuff I design and make is mostly prototypes and my free time isseverely limited just because a day only have 24 hours.

First out in MTBR is 140mm REAR specific disc, I´ve received a lot interest in these, needs to be tested and be up to par with a shimano disc regarding braking power.

The weight and material choice will be in aanother league.
Projected weight is 43 grams in 2.0mm thick 6al 4v titanium.
REAR only as rear braking gets lower braking force so I can design a lighter disc.

I will cut this prototype very soon and sending out for testing.
My 160mm have been cutted in 6 pcs and already sent around the world for testing in arious conditions.

I did resize this pic in Paint not a clever solution but I´m in a hotel room on my christmas vacation right now...


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Hi Mattias, 

How much does the 160mm weigh? Also, is it compatible w/ the Formula R1's?

Thanks,

Kevin


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

My 160 did weigh 64-65 grams.

Compatibility to other calipers is in testing now.


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

If you want testers for the harsh conditions of Australia I'm quite willing to volunteer


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## Epic-o (Feb 24, 2007)

You must try a version with carbon spider and titanium braking surface...


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## metelhead (Jun 1, 2008)

just curious, remember trying some early(early as in when disc brakes where just starting out...in 95') Titanium rotors and the biggest issues were noise and heat build up, have you been able to work around this?


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## twestis (Dec 18, 2007)

This will be an interesting prototype to follow! I've just seen one "home made" Ti rotor and that one was pretty badly brooken.


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## liam2051 (Apr 19, 2008)

AlexRandall said:


> If you want testers for the harsh conditions of Australia I'm quite willing to volunteer


+1 carbon spiders would be nice too


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## moto367 (Nov 20, 2006)

metelhead said:


> just curious, remember trying some early(early as in when disc brakes where just starting out...in 95') Titanium rotors and the biggest issues were noise and heat build up, have you been able to work around this?


Could this be due to pad material of the time? There are a lot of pad choices available now. May not be an issue any more. Anxious to hear other thoughts too.


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## djphill (May 11, 2008)

you should make one that is compatible with POWERTAP hubs, as far as i know there are no after market ones available


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

djphill: let me know the measurements or a cheap used disc so I can copy.

For me a very small volume sales and a decent price is never a problem.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I know the titanium disc problems are hard to overcome but I want to sell a good disc in titanium, many has did mistakes in the past like using pure titanium as it´s weaker than 6061 aluminumand thinking it´s cool and will hold up or wrong design.

But the pad abrasion is a tough one to overcome.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

A titanium disc with a carbon fiber spider is a very good idea, has thinking about it a long time BUT I can´t find suitable rivets...

Anyone who knows?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

44 grams without rivets.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Then I will collect some very light parts and make a Raceday Component Line with some reservations like weight limit or limited mileage.

What do you think about this new component line?


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## ayjay69 (Mar 9, 2008)

Your components looks great, maybe not fashionable but like pure weight weenie components  if you need someone who pay for material and will gain something for test - here em I


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

*Already seen...*

Nice products, but seems you're flipping through the Carbon-Ti catalogue.

Could be "experimental" but surely not original...


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Monticone said:


> Nice products, but seems you're flipping through the Carbon-Ti catalogue.
> 
> Could be "experimental" but surely not original...


NOthing wrong with that. As long as quality is there and pricing is cheaper I'm game. 
:thumbsup:


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*I...*

am not in favor of the carbon spider version shown here. It is important for a disc brake rotor to be able to dissipate as much heat as possible-I would expect that a carbon spider would not be able to dissipate heat as well as a full titanium rotor. Rotor performance is directly proportional to heat dissipation.
I would like to see the heat transfer/dissipation specifications for different materials (stainless steel/6-4 titanium/7075 Aluminum/MMC) taken into account when attempting to design light weight high performance disc brake rotors.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Monticone said:


> Nice products, but seems you're flipping through the Carbon-Ti catalogue.
> 
> Could be "experimental" but surely not original...


Well - Carbon-Ti X-lock skewers are also not original. They copied the design from PoP-Switzerland...the seatclamps look like Extralite clones....all at prices that go to the moon!


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## moto367 (Nov 20, 2006)

Mattias: are you cutting carbon fiber with your water jet or are you using solid carbide endmills to cut? Just curious. Cool designs.


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## racerick (Mar 15, 2009)

lets see some center lock versions


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Monticone said:


> Nice products, but seems you're flipping through the Carbon-Ti catalogue.
> 
> Could be "experimental" but surely not original...


Maybe it, I´ve experimented with titanium discs in about 2-3 months, mostly demands from potential customers and i´m a bike geek too.

359 euro for ONE carbon-ti disc is ridicolous.

My company name is Experimental Prototype, a CAD consulting and prototyping company so therefore the Experimental labelling.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

moto367 said:


> Mattias: are you cutting carbon fiber with your water jet or are you using solid carbide endmills to cut? Just curious. Cool designs.


Carbide end mills on carbon fiber is more cost effective as abrasive water jet cut on carbon fiber is too time consuming = more expensive.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

barrows said:


> am not in favor of the carbon spider version shown here. It is important for a disc brake rotor to be able to dissipate as much heat as possible-I would expect that a carbon spider would not be able to dissipate heat as well as a full titanium rotor. Rotor performance is directly proportional to heat dissipation.
> I would like to see the heat transfer/dissipation specifications for different materials (stainless steel/6-4 titanium/7075 Aluminum/MMC) taken into account when attempting to design light weight high performance disc brake rotors.


Without going too therorethic here.

Heat dissipation is a important factor, cooling is more important really.

For a XC bike the heat dissipation is not so important, the most important is friction in all weathers.

A DH bike would get a very different disc design, not titanium, mostly very even ground iron, vented with air vanes in middle is more beneficial like Hope did.
Full floating disc is good as heat warping is not fun.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

nino said:


> Well - Carbon-Ti X-lock skewers are also not original. They copied the design from PoP-Switzerland...the seatclamps look like Extralite clones....all at prices that go to the moon!


Ah ah, Nino again with these lies??? :nono: 
I'm sorry for the OT, but sometimes Nino forgets things that should know.

Carbon-Ti X-Lock come from old X-Lock (2005) that are older than when PoP was the distributor of Carbon-Ti in Switzerland. 

Same levers, same axles, same movement since five years... I think the pictures explain more than words!

The prices are high because Carbon-Ti made entirely in Italy, does not realize in China or Taiwan for assembly in other countries...

Best regards. :thumbsup:


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## kiatkiat (Sep 21, 2008)

racerick said:


> lets see some center lock versions


There are no ww rotors for center lock..
Mattias, wll it be difficult to mill a centerlock rotor?


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Hell Nino's even more out to lunch than just a five year lie.... X-Lite used that same basic skewer design way back in 1994. The only difference with these "X-Lock" labeled versions is the skewer lever and the end cap are slimmer. The 1994 skewers weighed 66g/pair and in MTB Pro's skewer test (brit magazine) on fork flex, they were the fifth worst in the test at 2.5mm measured deflection of the rim measured at the fork brace with a mere 10 pound load applied sideways on the wheel pulling at a spoke nipple 1/4 turn round the wheel from the fork. The best in the test, a standard shimano steel QR (164g) scored 1.9mm, the best "aftermarket" skewer setup were a tie at 2.0mm between the USE SpinStix Ti rod skewers (59g) and the Lynx CrMo rod skewers (110g). Still produced or used classic favourites like the Salsa FlipOffs CrMo rod skewers scored 2.3mm (100g), the ControlTech Ti bolt-ons at 2.1mm (46g) and SRP Ti Bolt-ons at 2.2mm (52g). 

In other words... if you're going to weight-weenie your skewers, expect to be giving up some steering precision due to additional fork flex. The test was done on one of the stiffest and shortest travel forks of the period (a version of the Manitou 1 called the M-Sport) with a wheel that was decidedly overbuilt (White Industries Phantom Tracker hub with straight 14g spokes & brass nipples laced 3x on a 32H Mavic M231CD rim) for an XC wheel.


As to the no weenie centerlock rotors, that's because shimano patented the centerlock splines... to produce aftermarket hubs or rotors you'd have to pay shimano royalties to use the centerlock spline pattern.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Hell Nino's even more out to lunch than just a five year lie.... X-Lite used that same basic skewer design way back in 1994. The only difference with these "X-Lock" labeled versions is the skewer lever and the end cap are slimmer. The 1994 skewers weighed 66g/pair and in MTB Pro's skewer test (brit magazine) on fork flex, they were the fifth worst in the test at 2.5mm measured deflection of the rim measured at the fork brace with a mere 10 pound load applied sideways on the wheel pulling at a spoke nipple 1/4 turn round the wheel from the fork. The best in the test, a standard shimano steel QR (164g) scored 1.9mm, the best "aftermarket" skewer setup were a tie at 2.0mm between the USE SpinStix Ti rod skewers (59g) and the Lynx CrMo rod skewers (110g). Still produced or used classic favourites like the Salsa FlipOffs CrMo rod skewers scored 2.3mm (100g), the ControlTech Ti bolt-ons at 2.1mm (46g) and SRP Ti Bolt-ons at 2.2mm (52g).
> 
> In other words... if you're going to weight-weenie your skewers, expect to be giving up some steering precision due to additional fork flex. The test was done on one of the stiffest and shortest travel forks of the period (a version of the Manitou 1 called the M-Sport) with a wheel that was decidedly overbuilt (White Industries Phantom Tracker hub with straight 14g spokes & brass nipples laced 3x on a 32H Mavic M231CD rim) for an XC wheel.
> 
> As to the no weenie centerlock rotors, that's because shimano patented the centerlock splines... to produce aftermarket hubs or rotors you'd have to pay shimano royalties to use the centerlock spline pattern.


There is just a new test on several high-end WW-skewers in the online magazine of german BikeSportNews. Look for that test on page 68
http://www.bikesportnews.de/e-magazine/

An here's the results translated into english:
Tune Skyline MTB; 23,8g +Key 5,6g; 3100N; no limitation 
Tune DC 16+17: 36,6g; 3100N; no limitation , very skin lever
Carbon-Ti X-Lock: 38,9g; 2400N; XC + Marathon
Funworks S-Light: 40,8g; 1700N; XC + Marathon, sticky action 
pop-products Titanium: 41,8g: 1400N; XC und Marathon, sticky action
Pitwalk Force Flow MTB Ti: 43,8g; 2800N; XC + Marathon 
FRM SK-M Team Titanium: 44,9g + Key 13g; 3900N; XC + Marathon, TT skewers
KCNC SKEWER MTB TI: 45,4g; 2800N; XC + Marathon 
Atik: AT1623; 46,1g; 4100N; no limitation 
Aerozine: 46,5g; 2500N; no limitation , lever bolt too fragile
Bikaavenue BA-LQR01: 53,7g; 3700N; no limitation 
USE Spinstix Titanium: 57,6g; 6700N; no limitation 
Mounty Lite-Axles: 69,6g: 8800N; NO DH, 5mm-Allen
Leichtkraft Keil: 73,6g: 5800N; XC + Marathon
USE Spinstix Steel: 77,8g; 6800N; no limitation 
DT Swiss RWS Titanium: 82,9g: 7700N; no limitation 
Salsa Flip-Offs Titanium: 83,7g; 6300N; no limitation 
Pitlock Set 03; 88,8g +Key 11,5g; 7000N; NO DH, with Key SW14
DT Swiss RWS Steel: 99,2g: 7700N; no limitation 
Mavic M40 141 MTB: 111,7g; 7500N; no limitation 
Shimano XTR: 118,8g; 8000N; no limitation 
Hope QR SKEWER: 119,7g; 4900N; no limitation 
NC-17 CC Chromo: 120,6g: 6800N; no limitation 
Shimano XT: 123,7g; 7800N; no limitation 
Crank Brothers Split: 124,1g; 8100N; no limitation

What you can see is that the 0815 Shimano XT + XTR Steel skewers still very high numbers only bettered by the bolt-on steel axles!!

According to that magazine everything above 1000 N is sufficient.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Green Lefty tube ones.
To a in NL, one in IT.

I don´t know if it´s the very same shade as Cannondale color.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Green anodized 110-74 spider combo.
Slightly loose fitment in spline interface, next version will be tighter.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Nino, in the german test of skewers, what are the newton load figures resulting from? How did they test the skewers to determine what was sufficient? What was the test apparatus?


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

Funny, but they dont verify the 1000N in any way. The just say it and nothing more. 
I for myself had with some of this "sufficient" QR's problems at the front: one hard breaking and the frontwheel became to incline (diff. forks and hubs, definitely the QR's). 
The "1000N" statement is from my point if view completely worthless. They dont concider the rider weight, style to ride, hub, fork, disc size etc...


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

magnesium spider, carbon disc?


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Green anodized 110-74 spider combo.
> Slightly loose fitment in spline interface, next version will be tighter.


Very nice, I like the green. Makes me really wish I had a set of hollowgram cranks.


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## Gijs (Sep 21, 2005)

Can you also make those spiders for a lightning crankset?


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## ayjay69 (Mar 9, 2008)

Mattias did you recived my email ?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

ayjay69 said:


> Mattias did you recived my email ?


Hi, yes I got it and will reply when the kids are sleeping in their beds.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

great works Mattias!

hope to see soon that XTR shadow upper main link I suggested you


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

Wow Mattias, your experimental prototype parts keep looking better and better. Very nice work. Being someone who knows how to use SolidWorks (I dont know if you use this program or not) these are truly works of art and patience.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I use Solidworks2009 SP3.0 currently.
For me it´s easy as MS paint nearly..


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Nino, in the german test of skewers, what are the newton load figures resulting from? How did they test the skewers to determine what was sufficient? What was the test apparatus?


Sorry for the Off-Topic!

Honestly D8 i think the 1000N they printed seem like a misprint to me.Seeing the problems i had in early years with some of those flexier, flimsy-ultralight skewers on my own bikes i can't understand how they can come up with that low number to be ok.Maybe that's ok on a full rigid bike but me too i have some doubts on that measure.

Anyway - interesting to see the stiffness numbers of some skewers and interesting to see that my reports from years ago get reflected nicely: i always said that steel bolt-ons would be much stiffer and even to a degree it could be felt. I think with todays uber-massive forks and frames the flex from skewers isn't as dramatic as it used to be in previous years when we still had flexy SID forks etc where such skewers made a bike almost unrideable. At least that was my experience when i tried to ride my tuned , old SID with such skewers. It felt like a wet noodle

I like the fact that the ATIK skewers have very high numbers. Interesting to see that the X-Lock and PoP both have pretty bad numbers and not so good overall review...I got PoPs and didn't like them to much. I can only say that the test reflects my feelings 1:1 besides the fact that the 1000N they say would be sufficient definitely isn't the case. I think that must be a misprint.


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

nino said:


> Interesting to see that the X-Lock and PoP both have pretty bad numbers and not so good overall review...


2400N and 1400N isn't exactly the same... :skep:

I do not know very well the language but I thought that "sehr gut" meant "very good".


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

djphill said:


> you should make one that is compatible with POWERTAP hubs, as far as i know there are no after market ones available


LOL, your wanting cut cut a few grams off a powertap hub?

I totally understand how useful they are, but caring about weight needs to be thrown out the window just a bit. LOL.


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

any ww's using powercranks?


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## Marreiros (Dec 20, 2009)

Hi Mattias!

Can you make some custom alu chainrings (40/26 or 39/25) for the FRM CU2-M18NS Integral?









If yes want colours can you do?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Marreiros: maybe I could do it if the spline interface is same as Cannondales?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Oval chainring with same mounting idea as Extralite but in titanium.
Pretty light with A4 M5 stainless bolts.
Could do it sub 80 grams but have to be sent to a rider in Norway.


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## ExtraSgrilli (Jan 20, 2009)

good job


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Oval chainring with same mounting idea as Extralite but in titanium.
> Pretty light with A4 M5 stainless bolts.
> Could do it sub 80 grams but have to be sent to a rider in Norway.


Mattias,
i think you could use nicer bolts to attach the small ring!
I have some sweet, lightweight steel bolts with flat heads here which get used for disc rotors. These bolts are just a bit heavier than titanium ones.I'm sure such or similar bolts would do well on your setup as well...Those massif heads just don't look nice and are heavy

By the way:
Whats the rings sizes on those rings?
28/42?
no-i just counted 29/42.
That's a nice idea.Extralite offers those Gara rings but they come only with a 28 inner ring.It would be nice to have a similar setup with 26,27,28,29 inner rings.This way people would have better choice in gearing. Then in aluminium and we would have a superlight setup!


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## Marreiros (Dec 20, 2009)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Marreiros: maybe I could do it if the spline interface is same as Cannondales?


I don't know how works the C'dale.. In the FRM the spider is the big chainring. Then the little chainring is directly attached to the big one with alu bolts and some spacers.

How can I mesure? Centre to bolt distance?


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## Monticone (Nov 30, 2004)

Another _extra_ordinary idea! :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jan 14, 2010)

An oval ring with no ability to adjust mounting?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

craigsj said:


> An oval ring with no ability to adjust mounting?


Correct, the buyer wanted position 2 so here it is.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

nino said:


> Mattias,
> i think you could use nicer bolts to attach the small ring!
> I have some sweet, lightweight steel bolts with flat heads here which get used for disc rotors. These bolts are just a bit heavier than titanium ones.I'm sure such or similar bolts would do well on your setup as well...Those massif heads just don't look nice and are heavy


Sure they are massive and shiny.
The spacing needs to be finetuned hence the provisional bolts.

Next version will be in aluminum, interested nino?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Sure they are massive and shiny.
> The spacing needs to be finetuned hence the provisional bolts.
> 
> Next version will be in aluminum, interested nino?


Well - it depends on the weight you get but this solution is only useable for those trying to convert triple cranks to double. This way you could get the chainline right which otherwise is no good on those cranks.

I personally don't need such a combo since i'm running either old-cranks where i adjust chainline with different BB widths or Lightning Carbon cranks where everything is already perfect.


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## SKullman (Oct 4, 2004)

Depending on price, I'd like a 104mm 4 bolt that I could run 40 - 28 for my 29er

attaching the small ring to the big ring, if stiff enough, seems fine to me.


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## Megaclocker (Sep 28, 2005)

Any idea about the price of those ti rotor ?


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## Dream Bikes (Oct 1, 2005)

I think that you could use your creativity in a better way instead of modifying products that has already been designed from other people...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Dream Bikes: Correct but a lot is already done and there´s not so much new under the sun.
Finetuning is the development now.

Uberlight for 5 years ago is standards today.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Megaclocker said:


> Any idea about the price of those ti rotor ?


Pricing info will be available when testing is done.

Two 140mm and six 160mm is out to testers.
I will know more in next week or in the end of february how it goes.

The price will be around the Scrubs.
It all depends on how the testing goes.


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## Buoyen (Aug 14, 2006)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Could do it sub 80 grams but have to be sent to a rider in Norway.


Heey! What's that supposed to mean?


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## Buoyen (Aug 14, 2006)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Next version will be in aluminum, interested nino?


I am, did you see the last PM I sent you?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

New prototype.


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## Marreiros (Dec 20, 2009)

Nice!


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## Rivet (Sep 3, 2004)

Mattias, from an engineering standpoint I'd be particularly concerned about the lack of material between the lightening holes in the rotor brake surface and the edge of the rotor, failure there is almost a given. Also that rotor will be unbearably loud, the lightening holes have long vertical surfaces which will contact the pad and create a terrible harmonic and also eat the front of the pad away. Look at other successful designs, the holes are either small or they are layed down so they have a smaller area the the pads sees initially.


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## mattkock (Mar 19, 2009)

Must have new Mattias rotors now!!! Those are freaking sweet! Can't wait for testing to go down.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Finally ready.
Shipping to BCB for testing.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

looks nice.But what was the final weight?
And i do hope you have a good insurance though...


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

Mattias, I sent you the draw for the Hammerschmidt 23T ti chainring
are you studying it?

and if you can work a 3mm carbon sheet, I'll send you the design for the bashguard

thanks


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Nino. sure I have a good life insurance and full body armour 
STS: yes I have received the drawing and it´s doable , I will reply you later.
Working on 3mm carbon fiber is no problem.
Let me know what you want.


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## indian fire trail (Nov 22, 2007)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Finally ready.
> Shipping to BCB for testing.


BCB? Let´s see what Gerard thinks; I´ll ask him at the spanish forum...

That rotor looks incredible, Mattias...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

160mm disc with titanium braking surface.
Sub 90 grams, will be lighter next time.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

A very early prototype of a ISP for Scott Scale/Spark


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Mattias,

Can I buy your carbon centred brake rotor? I want a 140mm one to run in the rear.


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## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

Awww.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Soya said:


> Awww.


Hi, ouch! how did you do that?
Areb you OK?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Hi, ouch! how did you do that?
> Areb you OK?


By looking at the chainring a bit closer i see dark marks around the bolthole of the part that broke. Such marks usually form when bolts are loose which might be the reason the chainring got a little play there and therefore would collapse to one side. This might be an explanation since i don't see how such a titanium cog should break in pieces.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

nino said:


> By looking at the chainring a bit closer i see dark marks around the bolthole of the part that broke. Such marks usually form when bolts are loose which might be the reason the chainring got a little play there and therefore would collapse to one side. This might be an explanation since i don't see how such a titanium cog should break in pieces.


You may be correct as no one since has bent a granny ring in titanium, they are STIFF.


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## Soya (Jun 22, 2007)

Not really sure what the cause was, happened really quick with one pedal stroke. I had the chainring bolts loctited in, so a loose bolt is unlikely.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*Must have some of those ti rotors*

Hi Mattias,
I'm upgrading my steel frame to run disks now (hope pro 2 hubs & race x2 brakes) so a set of your ti rotors would be g8.......sheds more weight :thumbsup: 
Your ti c-rings just keep going & going..........being narrow mud (it's winter here now) doesn't present any issues.......just 1 question can I run a 10 speed dura-ace chain on the rings as oposed to the current 9spd version (assuming the cluster will handle it).
Cheers
Conrad


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Conrad: 10s is no problem as many run my rings with 10s drivetrain but check first if the chain can leave the chainring without chainsuck first.


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## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*ok mattias*

will check that out. Now can you make 31 tooth rear cluster cogs for a shimano free hub. I am looking a putting on on my 12-27 ultegra cluster (taking out the 13 tooth one) to give me a 12-31 spread. not much point in buying an xtr 12-32 with ultegra one hardly used. 
If so how much? 
Cheers
Conrad
ps you are so g8 at coming up with real world solutions at reasonable prices....:thumbsup:


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## raceer2 (Jul 21, 2007)

no problem, been running on 9sp/10sp with no issues for about 2yrs...

:thumbsup:


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## ginsu2k (Jul 28, 2006)

*Bad Design*



Rivet said:


> Mattias, from an engineering standpoint I'd be particularly concerned about the lack of material between the lightening holes in the rotor brake surface and the edge of the rotor, failure there is almost a given. Also that rotor will be unbearably loud, the lightening holes have long vertical surfaces which will contact the pad and create a terrible harmonic and also eat the front of the pad away. Look at other successful designs, the holes are either small or they are layed down so they have a smaller area the the pads sees initially.


I'm an Senior Mech. Engineering student, and I've noticed that all of Mattias designs suffer from a lot of bad engineering. He should probably take a few classes, or at least learn how to run FEA because I wouldn't touch his chainrings or rotors based on all the design flaws - especially the spacing between holes and edges - he seems to have no idea how products fail in the real world.


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## ScaryJerry (Jan 12, 2004)

So uh, where's all the stuff you've made?


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> 160mm disc with titanium braking surface.
> Sub 90 grams, will be lighter next time.


I see that you used same idea as mine:nono: 
But my weights 92g with steel surface rotor and with Ti only 65g.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

tehan said:


> I see that you used same idea as mine:nono:
> But my weights 92g with steel surface rotor and with Ti only 65g.


I drawn this from ground up using a blank sheet, is there any patent fron your side?

I used a standard XTR centerlock spindle instead to make a new.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

ginsu2k said:


> I'm an Senior Mech. Engineering student, and I've noticed that all of Mattias designs suffer from a lot of bad engineering. He should probably take a few classes, or at least learn how to run FEA because I wouldn't touch his chainrings or rotors based on all the design flaws - especially the spacing between holes and edges - he seems to have no idea how products fail in the real world.


 welcome to the world outside the school.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

A new design which has been lying on my table a while due to lack of time.
Out to tester very soon.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Testing that very soon, measured at 150mm total width, only checked on scale if weight and if it´s possible to do that or NOT.


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## ilovecharlie (Sep 1, 2009)

ooooh, that is pretty!!!!! but 150 mm?? is that not a little wide?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Is that spindle just bonded together or is there a mechanical interlock where the machined pieces fit into the carbon tube?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

150mm is only for illustrative purposes, no glue is added yet.
It will be large contact areas so glue only should be enough.


----------



## wrxsti08 (May 29, 2008)

I want one! :thumbsup:


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

Me too!!!:thumbsup: When it is available PM me please


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

what cassette is that? Shimano with the 2 top cogs custom made by you?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

sergio_pt: It´s a SRAM PG1070 11-28T,can be got for around 60€ and is relatively heavy.


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

Rivet said:


> Mattias, from an engineering standpoint I'd be particularly concerned about the lack of material between the lightening holes in the rotor brake surface and the edge of the rotor, failure there is almost a given. Also that rotor will be unbearably loud, the lightening holes have long vertical surfaces which will contact the pad and create a terrible harmonic and also eat the front of the pad away. Look at other successful designs, the holes are either small or they are layed down so they have a smaller area the the pads sees initially.


this seem to be a good argument but if we take a look on new Carbon Ti rotors in Full Ti it make less sense. Maybe Mattias, you could lay a bit those holes like in this rotor below, and should be much better


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Tehan: I will look at this further later, have some projects in the pipeline and a lot lot of orders to be finished first.

My time is a little limited as always.

I don´t want to run a big business, I enjoy the life ofa prototype machinist and a weight weenie.


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Testing that very soon, measured at 150mm total width, only checked on scale if weight and if it´s possible to do that or NOT.


Mattias,

Any news on the "Experimental Prototype Si and SL axle"? Have you try it on your bike yet?


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

You should post a pic of your bike. I bet that is crazy awesome :thumbsup:

The centerlock rotor you designed is SWEEET!


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

XGreygoose: the axle is sent to a tester, it was a little of when I glued it, be very tired and make some gluing is NOT good, but it´s perfectly good for destructive testing.

When it holds up fine I will sell some of them.

Hardtailkid: My bike is surspringsly ordinary just because lack of time to test all my prototype stuff.
My employee Oscar is getting a Rocky Mountain FS frame with ALL of my prototypes on it , he´s getting paid to ride my prototypes and answering all emails and placing orders.

One of my bike I train regularly have only my own 36-26 alu chainrings and seat/seatpost combo and 60 gram thumbies along with some crazy light stuff that still holds up fine.


----------



## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Woah woah woah...YOUR seatpost? You made a seatpost? That is crazy. :thumbsup:

Your surprisingly ordinary is somewhere near my "I wish..."


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Sweet :cornut:


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

I want a 140mm titanium brake rotor.


----------



## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Cheers! said:


> I want a 140mm titanium brake rotor.


How would that handle the heat, though? I can't imagine it would be too good....??


----------



## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

I had a ti rotor a couple of years ago and ended up going back to steel. there just wasn't enough bite.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

hardtailkid said:


> How would that handle the heat, though? I can't imagine it would be too good....??


I'm not going to use them for 2 hour sustained decents. I'm using them for race courses that require at most 3 seconds worth of braking before a turn.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Titanium brake discs does have less bite than steel/stainless discs, for sure.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i just got this today from mattias! 
































i weighed it at 206g, i just rode on it today and it felt pretty good. 
Thanks Mattias!


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

Nice weight! What is the white stuff all around the edges?


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

paint, and uneven epoxy. ill sand it smooth and re-cover it.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Mattias_Hellöre .. wow nice stuff !! 
how long would shipping be to the uk??
for a 27t 64 bcd ti chainring  
cheers 
Graham


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

...... i want a ti one now


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

oops - sorry to see carnage facelessfools

these are the best (non Mattais made) Ti chainrings on the market IMHO: https://www.carbon-ti.com/index.php?p1=prodotti&Cat=XDK


59g CarbonTi X-Kit 42t chainring


55g Carbon-Ti X-Kit 40t chainring


Carbon-Ti X-Kit 40t chainring (inside detail)


24g Carbon-Ti X-Kit 26t inner chainring

:thumbsup:


----------



## conrad (Jan 27, 2004)

*Hi Mattias can you do a m980 88mm 27 ring?*

Hi Mattias,
I have just upgraded to m980 28/40 cranks but I miss my 27 ti ring. Can you do me a 88mm BCD 4 hole ring to fit the new m980 xtr double cranks. 
The old rings you made (27/40 ti)are still going g8.....still no visible wear, but I got the option to go to 10spd & just had to do it.........:thumbsup:

Cheers
Conrad.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> oops - sorry to see carnage facelessfools
> 
> these are the best (non Mattais made) Ti chainrings on the market IMHO: http://www.carbon-ti.com/index.php?p1=prodotti&Cat=XDK
> 
> :thumbsup:


was looking at these but it would probably be cheaper to get a mattias one after shipping.

my ring was 15g inner and 33g outer. so wht carbon ti is an extra 10g! thats 75% more!! 

i cant seem to find a simple solution so i'll probably just wait to hear from mattias.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> my ring was 15g inner and 33g outer. so wht carbon ti is an extra 10g! thats 75% more!!  .


yes your alloy inner chainring should be lighter than a similar one made of titanium 

there's nothing quite like having something made to order for your bike & exclusive to you - i'd wait for a response from Mattais :thumbsup:


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

https://www.hellore.se/bilder/INSTOCK20100802.jpg

https://r2-bike.com/carbon-ti-kettenblatt-titan-26z


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> https://www.hellore.se/bilder/INSTOCK20100802.jpg






facelessfools said:


> https://r2-bike.com/carbon-ti-kettenblatt-titan-26z




anything bespoke betters something mass production ...there's no 26t - but there is a 27t @ 2.92 Euro cheaper


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i had a 27t before and i think its still fine. i dont seem to need anything lower in a race


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> i had a 27t before and i think its still fine. i dont seem to need anything lower in a race


stop bragging 

so what chainring broke + how did it happen?

& why post a link to a CarbonTi 26t if you don't need a 26t? 

.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

it broke at the base of Mt.Wilson. we just descended and it just blew into chunks on an easy climb. im willing to bet a bolt was loose. it was a perforated 27t Al ring from r2 bike
http://r2-bike.com/EP-Kettenblatt-LK64-27Z

i was thinking a 26 would be nice for when i hit crazy steep stuff but thats only when i go out trail riding. the races around here i never need to go that low. i had a 42/29 middleburn and it was awesome for racing but not low enough for some trails just made things "manageable"

im thinking i want to get 27/38t but im worried it wont be high enough for some situations, but thats mostly trail scenario's


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Facelessfools: hope you are not hurt!

I do say the Carbon-Ti are a piece of art compared to mine, to be honest.

I´ve mailed you right now.


Conrad: mail me at mattias @ hellore.se so I can help you better.


----------



## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> it broke at the base of Mt.Wilson. we just descended and it just blew into chunks on an easy climb. im willing to bet a bolt was loose. it was a perforated 27t Al ring from r2 bike
> http://r2-bike.com/EP-Kettenblatt-LK64-27Z
> 
> i was thinking a 26 would be nice for when i hit crazy steep stuff but thats only when i go out trail riding. the races around here i never need to go that low. i had a 42/29 middleburn and it was awesome for racing but not low enough for some trails just made things "manageable"
> ...


argh! sorry to hear - Mt. Wilson is epic

that's an easy one  : when you are ordering spiffy new Ti chainrings from Mattias - get a 27t and a 38t + 40t (or 42t) and switch them to suit :thumbsup:

+ try not to re-use chainring bolts that often & if poss replace them when you purchase new rings

my chainring bolts are @ 8nm - they were almost distorting when winding them up that high - but holding fast (tapping forehead to touch wood!)

best


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

my 42t ring is still fine so i can switch as need be. 
just filled out the order for six spacers for the granny gear from extralite. 

i will need more "single bolts" anyway so time to go to tom at toronto and pick up some other goodies in the process.

mattias said he did the 27t today not sure if he perforated the teeth though. Speedy work! what could be better!

Mount wilson was epic! we took some singletrack up that was mostly shale and loose obstacles, it sucked having to get off so much but it was around 1000feet a mile of elevation! then we passed the "sunset point' and took some more singletrack to get to the main fire road since we were low on time. ended up going down a prohibited to bikes are since there was no sign! ops! then as we were going back to the cars i had to run the bike through most of it then we got lost in he streets. 
so yes it was epic being up so high you cant see the difference between one building and the next.


----------



## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I'd love an Extralite Gara with 28t/40t. Is that possible?


Ole.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

http://hellore.se/EP01.html

it is!


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## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

I ride 1x10S with a S-Works crank 32T.
I use a triple spider S-Works.
Can you made a titanium spider + 30T (monoblock) like your : 
Experimental Prototype SiSL 36-26, but just 30T without 26T ?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

One Ring to rule them all.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Thats just beautiful.. :thumbsup:  
`One ring to rule them all` ..yes, i could have written that too!!


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

wish i had the spacers to put it on. but they should be on there way from extralite.


----------



## krzysiekmz (Nov 10, 2009)

Hi, 

are the 140mm carbon/titanium discs for sale yet? 

Chris.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i was just talking to him about his rotors. he is selling full ti ones but yet to hear a response on the crabon/ti ones... because i want a pair!


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

krzysiekmz: the carbon ti discs are shelved due to lack of interest.

I think there´s some light discs out there like Scrubs and others.

But if you want something special, I may help you.


----------



## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

Like to share with you guys some items that I received from Mattias. Still waiting for some more parts from him and the bike too.

Cheers Mattais :thumbsup:

Cannondale Hollowgram Sl Spider to fit 120/80BCD (SRAM XX)










Ti Chainring 42t 120BCD










Ti Chainring 26t 80BCD


----------



## kross king (May 5, 2010)

hi mathias how could you make the same as above but in 27 40 and same spider arrangement?
Bruce


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Bruce: no problem as what I can see


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## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

For those that have ordered from Mattias how long has it taken to get your item. Back on Dec 19 I contacted Mattias about a titanium cog. He said if I ordered it that day it would be cut during Xmas break. Around middle of Jan I had not heard or received anything so I contacted him and he said it would be cut the beginning of Feb. I contacted him the other day to see what was up and now he said it would be ready to ship in about a week, IF the cutter doesn't experience any problems.


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

but what is the point of having 40g SI SL spider when original weights 26g!!!!! 
And this 42T chainring is heavier than you could get for 5bolt 94mm pattern from Mattiass for eg.

It's just stupid - people wants to follow blindly XX trend....


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

santacruzflyer said:


> For those that have ordered from Mattias how long has it taken to get your item. Back on Dec 19 I contacted Mattias about a titanium cog. He said if I ordered it that day it would be cut during Xmas break. Around middle of Jan I had not heard or received anything so I contacted him and he said it would be cut the beginning of Feb. I contacted him the other day to see what was up and now he said it would be ready to ship in about a week, IF the cutter doesn't experience any problems.


he has been excellent with working with me but i think its important to realize he is only one man with a life. he doesn't walk into a giant facility and push a button he has to meticulously produce them


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Santacruzflyer: you are correct.
I´m slow with chainring orders now due to titanium and aluminum supply problems.
There´s no enough high quality titanium and aluminum at good prices in northern sweden.

From now I will only do titanium and aluminum cogs and chainrings for these who really wants them.

Changing a direction a little here, more to CNC and carbon fiber stuff.

Facelessfools: thanks for kind words.
The tough facts is unfornutately I have two other jobs to go and there´s only 24 hours a day and mostly all of my products is made by me completely from sketch to finished product.

From beginning I had planned to do that in a side business to have fun and serve you all with high quality products and good prices but the fact is I have to quit my two other jobs to clear the last months orders and many many more is coming, I´m so shocked there´s a huge demand!

Did I mention I have all my 4 kids at home during days?

/Mattias


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

In 2010 and 2011 only I´ve sold 102 carbon lefty tubes, there´s a fair bit of labour to make them.
I will direct all european customers to R2-bike.de for these steerer tubes but for special orders please send my employee Oscar a mail with your questions.

Yes I have employed a guy which takes all orders, don´t be confused as there´s a Mattias and a Oscar here at EP now.

Oscar is making a new homepage now for EP and I hope it´s easier to update as it will be a wordpress product, you all deserve a well updated homepage and cool pics to see.

/Mattias


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## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

Hello
I ordered a special and unique component in titanium at the end of 2010.
To date, this component did not arrive home yet, it is late.
However, I think that it is normal for this part, to notice the elongation of deadline.
It is as to work with an artist, of the delay but an incredible quality
The deadline if forgetting, the quality stays.
Cordially.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Boude: your chainring will be finished TODAY, I have to make the most part of 25 carbon lefty steerer tubes ordered by two bike shops.
There´s around 30hours of labor into them.

Thanks for the patience.


----------



## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

Anxiously awaiting my carbon lefty tube...


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## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Boude: your chainring will be finished TODAY, I have to make the most part of 25 carbon lefty steerer tubes ordered by two bike shops.
> There´s around 30hours of labor into them.
> 
> Thanks for the patience.


OK, thanks :thumbsup: 
Pictures please ?


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

tehan said:


> but what is the point of having 40g SI SL spider when original weights 26g!!!!!
> And this 42T chainring is heavier than you could get for 5bolt 94mm pattern from Mattiass for eg.
> 
> It's just stupid - people wants to follow blindly XX trend....


Who's following XX trend? I guess I must be stupid that I use XX on all my bikes

Wanted to see if I could lighten up my old crankset or maybe use it on new build.
















BTW Original Cannondale spider for XX (120/80BCD) weighs 54g!!!!!!








Also here's lighter aftermarket XX (120BCD) Carbon-Ti 42T (69g!!!!) and Carbon-Ti Carbon/Alloy (120BCD) 42T at 55g!!!!!
















And Carbon-Ti 26t (22g)









For sure, these shift and look better but we are on a weight weenies topic and the main point is with Mattias EP custom parts 
...........Cheers Mattias:thumbsup: Sry for the off topic pic's


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

mattias which shops are buying your products now?

i got my first rings from r2 and saw they have the steerer's as well.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

If I can recall right.
R2-bike.de in germany.
Busybee.pro in Belgium or something.
Radical Lights in australia
Redbike in USA
88+ in denmark and switzerland
Nino in switzerland

So I´m fairly busy for being a busy little man here in Sweden


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

To be fair, I´ve not said my chainring will shift like Shimano or XX rings, they are superior in this aspect.

BUT the longest wearing lightweight rings are mine in titanium, by far.
I´ve never seen ONE titanium ring that I did have been worn out, there´s about 1500 different models in my solidworks vault at my office, failures does happen, of course, some by using them as bashguards or stupid design mistakes by me.

I can admit I´m not perfect but I will do my best to help and doing that right.


----------



## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

i was talking about original 5 bolt spider which is 26g. My big ring is 60g nd small 24 and i use just one set of bolts as the small ring has thread. So this setup you have on photos is fairly heavy!


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## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

tehan said:


> i was talking about original 5 bolt spider which is 26g. My big ring is 60g nd small 24 and i use just one set of bolts as the small ring has thread. So this setup you have on photos is fairly heavy!


Not for a SRAM XX (120/80BCD) setup!
Why do you talk about an "original 5 bolt spider"!? I know that is lighter but I don't understand or care, as you can clearly see that I was showing and talking about a XX setup. I'm sure your crankset is lighter but it doesn't work or well with my XX and aftermarket chainrings.

I guess the only thing "fairly heavy" is........your bike.:thumbsup: 

The point of Mattais's EP stuff is that you can ask him to custom bike parts to your needs.


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

XgreygOOse said:


> The point of Mattais's EP stuff is that you can ask him to custom bike parts to your needs.


i had a specific ring made for my extralite ebones which couldnt have been accomplished elsewhere.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

live in a dream i will not wake you up:]


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Tehan: I feel you are negative here?
Correct?

I don´t say my products are superior against other competitors.

I make products that customers WANT, light or not, cheap or expensive.


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## tehan (Jan 22, 2007)

I'm not negative about you Mattiass. What you do is fine.
Just don't understand why in this particular case with SI SL crank someone wants to make it heavier... 
but we are leaving in a free world so hay everyone can do what they want and XgreygOOse seems that didn't get what i meant by XX trend which he follows.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Tehan: that´s good.

I think it´s the whole weight of package that´s relevant here.

With XX it´s possible to get light spiders like mine and good shifting rings from SRAM and SiSL cranks to get a competitive weight.


----------



## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

Thanks a lot for Sworks crank 28T titanium for 1*10.
45grs.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

boude said:


> Thanks a lot for Sworks crank 28T titanium for 1*10.
> 45grs.


Satisfied with the result?


----------



## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

Visual aspect: yes.
Weight: yes

It is now necessary to go up the spider on the crankset and to go to run for test.


----------



## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

Just ride now
175mm crank + 28T Ti + BB PFBB30 under 500grs.


----------



## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

how strong are the carbon 1 1/8" lefty steerers?


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

dan: delivered 116 pcs, one broken in france.
As far I know.
So less than 1%


----------



## chipper (Feb 19, 2007)

Hello Mattias. When are you going to let us in on the new lefty product you are working on?


----------



## XgreygOOse (Sep 8, 2007)

danridesbikes said:


> how strong are the carbon 1 1/8" lefty steerers?


I'm have them on both my bikes. The first one more than a year ago. I weigh in at 200lbs and ride aggressive XC and so far had zero problems with mine.:thumbsup: So guess you could said they are pretty strong.


----------



## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

Hello Mattais. 
Sorry to post this on here but I am having no joy in getting a delivery date for my chainring from Oscar. 
I ordered a 36 tooth ti chainring in a 94 bcd over 9 weeks ago. 
Can you please give me some idea of when I can expect delivery of this item. 
Again apologies for putting this on here but I have been waiting some time now.


----------



## santacruzflyer (Feb 7, 2010)

9 weeks? Consider yourself lucky. 14 weeks on my 36 titanium cog so far and counting.


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Karl and Santacruzflyer:

I´m very sorry your titanium rings are very late, currently have problems with them warping after waterjet cutting, could be built in stress or wrong handling.

Then last week I managed to fell in the stairs outside and got my right axle dislocated.
Not so fun when it happens.

They are shipped anyway.

If you have problem, post it here or mail me.


----------



## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

MattIas, I hope the ankle heals well. I know your pain, I recently fell off of a ladder at work & busted my ankle. The nightmare of nice weather & a bad foot. 
My chainring was waiting in the post when I got home from work today & I'm more than impressed so thank you very much. 
As soon as my camera decides to work again I'll post some pictures. :thumbsup:


----------



## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Karl, I mean the AXLE, it´s icy and cold here in northern sweden, I fell and landed on my axle then it sounded like crack! the axle was completely dislocated down fron the cup, not so fun when I had to bang it back into place and then make food for my kids.

Thank god for Caol Ila.


----------



## Crossmaxx (Dec 2, 2008)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Karl, I mean the AXLE, it´s icy and cold here in northern sweden, I fell and landed on my axle then it sounded like crack! the axle was completely dislocated down fron the cup, not so fun when I had to bang it back into place and then make food for my kids.
> 
> Thank god for Caol Ila.


I think you mean your shoulder! In Swedish, shoulder is called axel, hence the confusion...


----------



## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Karl, I mean the AXLE, it´s icy and cold here in northern sweden, I fell and landed on my axle then it sounded like crack! the axle was completely dislocated down fron the cup, not so fun when I had to bang it back into place and then make food for my kids.
> 
> Thank god for Caol Ila.


Ouch!!


----------



## ShopMechanic (May 9, 2009)

The best solution I have found for securing chainring bolts is with teflon plumbers tape. You are basically turning the nut into a nylock one with that tape. It is secure yet not glued together as you get with locktite, plus it protects the threads of the bolt as they are being torqued.


----------



## de lars cuevas (Jun 19, 2006)

Nice products, and the prices for the rings seem reasonable!

Hope you can make a 30 and 40 104 bcd in aluminium, Dynasys compatible.
22/30/40 would make the ideal triple 29'er crank!


----------



## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

boude said:


> Just ride now
> 175mm crank + 28T Ti + BB PFBB30 under 500grs.


That's a fullsuspension bike? No chainguide?


----------



## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

http://www.bikerumor.com/2011/03/23/more-2x10-options-custom-little-rings/
Cool to see Mattias getting some press!


----------



## Mads Kock (May 26, 2005)

Just a heads up - Mattias, your work is SO cool!!!!


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## @dam (Jan 28, 2004)

Speaking of press, did I read somewhere about Mattias doing some prototyping for someting non-bike related. I could swear I came across something recently, but don't remember what. Maybe aerospace, or electric car related or something???


----------



## Mads Kock (May 26, 2005)

I hear he's working on something for the real Ironman


----------



## chapsaai (Mar 29, 2010)

what about tuning the xx casset oder the xg 999.
carbon last ring? would it be possible, the casset is so light already if you loos a few grams on it it will be ultralight like 160g


----------



## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

chapsaai said:


> what about tuning the xx casset oder the xg 999.
> carbon last ring? would it be possible, the casset is so light already if you loos a few grams on it it will be ultralight like 160g


I would actually rather see a more durable Ti version of the large cog. Those Al replacements are expensive, so with a Ti version you should get a bit more longevity out of it.

(Note- I haven't read through this entire thread, so I hope Mattias hasn't already made a Ti ring.)


----------



## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

bholwell said:


> I would actually rather see a more durable Ti version of the large cog. Those Al replacements are expensive, so with a Ti version you should get a bit more longevity out of it.
> 
> (Note- I haven't read through this entire thread, so I hope Mattias hasn't already made a Ti ring.)


I agree with this!! I would order one tomorrow if you made it Mattias!!

Any chance of this in the production que?


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## bholwell (Oct 17, 2007)

DavidR1 said:


> I agree with this!! I would order one tomorrow if you made it Mattias!!
> 
> Any chance of this in the production que?


Mattias, if the cost is reasonable, I would also be in for a Ti replacement XX large cog (36T).


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## cypee (Jul 2, 2009)

XgreygOOse said:


> Like to share with you guys some items that I received from Mattias. Still waiting for some more parts from him and the bike too.
> 
> Cheers Mattais :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


Anyone has picture already install this xx spider on their bike?


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

bholwell said:


> Mattias, if the cost is reasonable, I would also be in for a Ti replacement XX large cog (36T).


I think that would be quite a success. I'd get one.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Looks like the hard work is already done. Some minor changes and this is an xx 36t cog.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I have no XX large cog at home to make measurements from but if there´s a interest, I can buy a new XX cassette and disassemble it for you guys here who want Ti replacements.

OR anyone can send me a worn out al ring to let me make measurements from , then send it to a lower cost.

/Mattias


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

The only cog that could be made from Ti would be the 36t. The rest are 1 piece Chromoly. If you're not looking to use the cassette yourself, you should buy just the 36t aluminum cog for prototyping.


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## boude (Nov 18, 2010)

snowdrifter said:


> That's a fullsuspension bike? No chainguide?


Sworks Epic 2011
just handmade chainring under 18grs, no problem.


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## jzbig (Apr 25, 2009)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> I have no XX large cog at home to make measurements from but if there´s a interest, I can buy a new XX cassette and disassemble it for you guys here who want Ti replacements.
> 
> OR anyone can send me a worn out al ring to let me make measurements from , then send it to a lower cost.
> 
> /Mattias


I have a damage 36 XX cog, i can send it to you, it's the spline that goes into the hub that is damaged

Your adr??


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

id buy a Ti replacement 36t XX cog, the aluminum ones are cack, a 32t on mine last me 50 miles, and broke 1 tooth


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

Mattias I have been following your work for over a year we have a saying here in England that goes along the lines of the man who never Made a mistake never made anything you have produced some interesting stuff and I think if you researched materials a little more for brake rotors and your chainrings you could have great products on your books


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

First of all hi! long time no see!

Second: I have made mistakes, the important thing here is HOW they will be solved.
I have very few unsatisfied customers over the time, most mistakes is made by me, lack of time or only stupid design faults.

I´m always in the hunt for better materials, currently using 6-2-2 titanium, that´s surspringsly cheaper than 6-4 but better, Aermet is very interesting but very hard to get, Carpenter is not replying on my phone calls or mails.
I´ve heard from someone who had sheets of aluminium mmc which could be great brake discs and I´m curious what material Scrubs are from.

/Mattias



compositepro said:


> Mattias I have been following your work for over a year we have a saying here in England that goes along the lines of the man who never Made a mistake never made anything you have produced some interesting stuff and I think if you researched materials a little more for brake rotors and your chainrings you could have great products on your books


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

HI mattias 

please take the comment with the spirit it was intended I wouldnt see them as mistakes it's purely development as I said your prepared to have a go which is a great thing some people will never even take a shot at designing a product :thumbsup:

I put bikes on the back burner for a while as I was working In Formula 1 recently we resurrected our disc brake project for bikes

however at the end of all this development you will find what suits you best, just enjoy the journey and keep up the development


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## danny36 (Dec 9, 2005)

Hi Mattias

I have a cnc mill and I would like to make a custom hollowgram spider so I can ask to you if you can share your draw of internal design of the spider, I have difficult to redesign the right pattern.


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

*XX cog and rings*

Mattias, Please let us know if you have a 36T XX cog available. 
Also, still waiting patiently for my XX rings. Very excited to get them.
Thanks again- and please let me know.


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## jutes (Sep 22, 2009)

I may have the record of the longest wait here. It'll be 12 weeks this coming weekend for me now but still cant wait for my stem steerer tube and my chainring.


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

I am in a race with you for longest wait . Mattias did send a picture today, so at least I know it exists. Hopefully it shows up this weekend and is so fantastic that I forget about the frustration of waiting so long. I'll post pictures when I have it in hand. Pictures of what?

He's making me a 27T titanium chainring, and a combination bashring/spider for a Specialized S-works crankset. The bashring will mount directly to the arms in place of a spider, and the single 27T ring in 80mm XX BCD will mount to the bash guard. Should be a perfect 1x9 with an 11-36 for the trails I ride!


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Jutes and Kroe:
I do knew you have waited a long time, there´s some more people in the delay list right now.

My time assumptions along with full time father of four kids did take more time , much more time than I counted for.

Then a one man´s shop is not easy, I´ve not listened to all warnings to playing as super human with at least one half time job with the Experimental Prototype and then I´m studying to mechanical engineer, on top of all that I´m at home and take care of my four kids.

That´s my futile attempt to excuse, I´m sorry but I´m not in this business to take your money and run, I´m at least attempt to make what you want at a competitive price.

/Mattias


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## xc bzh (Feb 28, 2009)

Hi Mattias,

As well as Juste and Kroe, I'm in the race for longest wait for my steerer tube (order placed on February 22, 2011).

Although I can clearly understand that this delay is induced by some unexpected events (shop flooding, family events, ...), it is regrettable not to have any update from you or Oscar whereas it was just requested to confirm a delay for the ordered steerer tube to be shipped.

Wouldn't it be possible to establish a delay list and to inform each customer of the estimated availability delay for each ordered items ? 

Be sure that I'm still confident that I will receive my steerer tube and the only question is just to know when ?

Hope to hear from you soon

Greg


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

In the name of transparency....

I received my order after months of waiting. It was for a 27t titanium 80mm (xx bcd) chainring, and an aluminum combination bashing, spider that mounts directly to Specialized S-Works crank arms. 

The chainring is perfect. 

The bashring/spider came in thin titanium instead of thick aluminum. The ti was thin, i could easily flex it by hand, but I was willing to give it a shot. Ti is magical, maybe it would work. When I mounted it I noticed that the bashring covered the teeth of the chaining, but didnt cover the chain when it was on the chainring (DOH!). Not much use as a bashguard. 

Ordered a 26t alloy ring, since it would sit under the bash edge. Took the bike out with the 27t for a try, went over a tester log, hitting the chain on log. The thin spider bent a bit (checked when I got home).

The bashring/spider was requested in thick aluminum, confirmed that it would be done in thick aluminum, but came in Thin Ti. Worse... The bash doesn't cover the chainring that was purchased with it when a chain is installed.

I recognize that these are made to order prototype parts. The incorrect bash size was a mistake (understandable). The biggest issue is that just like every step of the waiting process I can't get an email response in a timely fashion. 

I'll post the resolution here if I hear back...

(Feel bad posting this ***** fest, but don't think I'll get a meaningful response otherwise)


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi Kroe, you should not feel bad to post that.
It´s my thread and I do allow positive and negative response here.

As I stated before it´s a one man´s shop which is expanding a lot nowadays in the same time schedule from the beginning at 2009 when I registered the VAT number.

The order volume is approx 3-4x more than from beginning and I now can afford me to buy some nice parts but, use them? that´s a another question.

I have some problems to make a good working short order list and a reliable timeline when I can do parts in right time, too many unexpected problems and they are taking time.

I have some experience to make stuff but NOT in planning and scheduling time estimates, some took very long time especially carbon fiber one-offs and ordering materials is best done from US both price wise and delivery time but one down side is TIME.

Currently I´m ordering carbon tubes and titanium sheets from US only as the quality is good enough for me, one defective tube in a batch of 50 is OK, chinese is more like 1/3 of 50 or painted or anything other than I ordered.

I ordered two sheets of 3000x1500mm titanium from China, came here with a little lower price than US but severely pitted surface and BENT!!
North of 4000 euros wasted.

I do say I can make good parts but the timeline is a another question, trying to solve it, sorry about it!


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## chapsaai (Mar 29, 2010)

hey,
pleeeeaaaaassseee someone tell me how i get the aluminium cog down my xx cassett. I cant really figure it out how i should get this cog down the casset without bending or destroying something

please share your knowledge


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Support the alloy cog on the top of the jaws of a vice, use a pin punch and tap on the tabs where they pass thru the alloy cog. Just a couple of taps on each tab so it moves it a bit each time and work your way around the cog till the steel cassette drops off.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Just wanted to update a little here.

I´ve done a carbon cassette for campa 11-23 recently 100% made in house.

My new favorite color of anodized alu is blood red I just found and sent to a mtbr member.
Sorry for the delay!

I´m ordering materials in ever increasing volumes now, it´s fun to make things and then it´s sad to see them leave the shop for delivery but one day I will get my own stuff made when I have some spare time left.

Finally I just got a Cannondale Scalpel frame as my testbed.

A byline, I do love make and build weightweenie parts but my best bike is a well worn Commencal Meta 5.5 which I use everywhere, guess why?, its quite light too, have titanium discs


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

That´s a pic on the campa cassette.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

cool! 
we need more details! 
whats the weight of the cassette? and how is it made?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

one of the coolest things ever!
do you think you will get to a point where you can make a cassette strong enough for XC say using a carbon spider and ti cogs?


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## Joza (Jun 4, 2010)

Hi there, this idea came to my mind as well, so I'm planning to make a carbon spider for my XTR cassette.
And that cassette from Mattias looks really awesome. I wonder when will we read some review on it after a few miles of life.


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

Mattias_Hellöre said:


> Finally I just got a Cannondale Scalpel frame as my testbed.


Where did you get your scalpel frame from?


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

facelessfools said:


> one of the coolest things ever!
> do you think you will get to a point where you can make a cassette strong enough for XC say using a carbon spider and ti cogs?


While I think that would be very cool, would it not be lighter and cheaper to just get an XX or XG999 cassette? I couldn't imagine the weight difference would be that great, and the steel of the Sram would last longer for sure. Would you not just be making a cassette to say you have a cool Ti/CF cassette??


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

DavidR1 said:


> While I think that would be very cool, would it not be lighter and cheaper to just get an XX or XG999 cassette? I couldn't imagine the weight difference would be that great, and the steel of the Sram would last longer for sure. Would you not just be making a cassette to say you have a cool Ti/CF cassette??


i think its worth trying or at least designing. he could probubly get an accurate weight and price quote.

several of my team mates only got a few races on there xx cassettes since that alloy ring gets cooked quickly.


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

The Recon full Ti cassette's are lighter than XX with an alu. spider, so with a carbon spider and Ti cogs it should quite a bit lighter than XX. 

My concern is durability, would the carbon be able to hold up to the torque that's put on a cassette?


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

facelessfools said:


> several of my team mates only got a few races on there xx cassettes since that alloy ring gets cooked quickly.


Mattias will make the 36t cog out of Ti for you:thumbsup:


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

COLINx86 said:


> The Recon full Ti cassette's are lighter than XX with an alu. spider, so with a carbon spider and Ti cogs it should quite a bit lighter than XX.
> 
> My concern is durability, would the carbon be able to hold up to the torque that's put on a cassette?


i think the only area to worry about on a carbon spider would be the flanges that secure the cassette to the freehub.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

COLINx86 said:


> The Recon full Ti cassette's are lighter than XX with an alu. spider, so with a carbon spider and Ti cogs it should quite a bit lighter than XX.
> 
> My concern is durability, would the carbon be able to hold up to the torque that's put on a cassette?


if made correctly yes cutting it from sheet is a pretty poor idea people need to remember carbon is not a metallic replacement it needs to take into consideration the material properties
its possible to make an aluminium casette that will not wear at all the same is true of carbon


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## jutes (Sep 22, 2009)

Mattias_HellÃ¶re said:


> Jutes and Kroe:
> I do knew you have waited a long time, there´s some more people in the delay list right now.
> 
> My time assumptions along with full time father of four kids did take more time , much more time than I counted for.
> ...


Mattias, I can't thank you enough for the surprise I got yesterday. The pics below will express my gratitude...


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Hi everyone again, I wll try to reply all of you here.

The campagnolo 10s cassette is milled from sheets of 3mm thick carbon, then lathed down on the top where the chain resides to 1.6mm, IMHO, this type of cassette is cool and light but limited longevity and durability just because the splintering and weak nature of resin.
BUT in real world testing has shown the exactly opposite , low wear and many many KM before wearing out and shifting is OK etc..

But sure, they are light and cool and expensive.. I take around 300 € each and there´s no shortage of folks that want to order them..

The last 11-12 is made from one piece 7075 aluminum, needed some creative thinking of my 2.5D milling software but I did it and it was painless at least.
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.1740867891316.2080770.1527256590&l=652ebfa86b
A direct link to my facebook pictures.

Joza: a carbon spider is doable but direct transition of aluminum spider to carbon is doomed for failure as the carbon is woven with it´s specific properties.
It does a redesigning or molding the carbon/resin mix into a mold.

Broseph: I got a 2009 scalpel frame in white and black, the best colors beside the 2011.

Regarding designing of carbon into a place where a cassette lies, that´s the worst possible place in a road or mountainbike really, dusty and with a big chain going everywhere and supposed to be 100% reliable in a period of time.

I will not take any more orders until the end of august or something like it, but making and deliver all late orders is priority 1 now, then development and prototype work is priority 2.

No more volume work like common chainrings and common stuff in 2011 until I get some more time.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Jutes: hope you like the color of anodizing?
Pretty good weight too ?


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## jutes (Sep 22, 2009)

It's just simply amazing. I loved it. Definitely worth the wait.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Your next custom part commision:

Lefty steerer adapter tube for frames that have tapered 1.5"/1.125" headtubes. I want to put a Lefty 120 or 140 Carbon on a Yeti ASR5 Carbon without using funky bearing adapters, etc... Just fit into the regular tapered headset bearings.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

BlownCivic said:


> Your next custom part commision:
> 
> Lefty steerer adapter tube for frames that have tapered 1.5"/1.125" headtubes. I want to put a Lefty 120 or 140 Carbon on a Yeti ASR5 Carbon without using funky bearing adapters, etc... Just fit into the regular tapered headset bearings.


I´ve done some tubes, 7 or so? lost count of all custom made steerers now.
But the problem is Santa Cruz Tallboy has some sort of own tapered headset as my tapred steerer tubes didn´t fit..


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

Tallboy uses standard 1.5" bottom head tube, also called EC49 according to S.H.I.S. Nothing funky going on there. Maybe your steerer tube doesn't taper to 1 1/8" soon enough, so it touches part of the inside of the frame's head tube?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

This does my tapered look like.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Finally I got the Ti chainrings for all current orders.


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## Boostleak (Apr 15, 2010)

When will you have a fix for the Tallboy tubes? I have on of your Steer Tubes that does not allow for the Bottom Race to seat correctly.

Thanks,


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## Boostleak (Apr 15, 2010)

*Steer Tube fix*

Mattias please respond to the several emails I have left you and Oscar over the Steer Tube you made for me as it will not work in it's current configuration for a Tallboy. I waited over 3 months for it and now that I need some help I do not her from you. You assured me that a solution could be found so please respond.

Jim


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Boostleak: Oscar have his vacation now until august, I will jump over this vacation to reduce the backlog, your emails will be responded soon, trying to solve it for you.


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## Boostleak (Apr 15, 2010)

Thanks, I love the Steer Tube and just want it on the bike!!


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

If the bottom race won't fit on the fork, there must either be something wrong with the race, or the fork. What headset is the race from? If it's Chris King, the bottom races can sometimes be a pain, and I often end up splitting them before putting them on the fork.


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## magpies14 (Jun 24, 2009)

Mattias ...i am interested in a 36T Ti COG . ?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

http://www.canecreek.com/manuals/Headset_Instructions/legacy/Double_X/Double_X_Xc_ Instructions.pdf

That must be correct, read the measurements for bottom race.
I will do a such tube and see.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

I´m pairing these with a 2mm thick titanium disc, I think it will be around 85 grams.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Now we are talking! primered in matte grey and testweighed, the alu bolts will add around 3-4 grams.

The earlier version was in 1.7mm thick aluminum, working fine on pro rider Emil Lindgren´s bike.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

Finished! 75 grams as seen.


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## karl711 (Mar 26, 2009)

Are you thinking of doing a 6 bolt version of this?


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Mattias , removing material in the 5 arms of spider ?


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

eliflap said:


> Mattias , removing material in the 5 arms of spider ?


Yes the backside of the spider is machined a lot, I wanted to retain a cooler look of front side you see now.
About 20-25 grams is removed from spider only.


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## oldassracer (Mar 26, 2009)

Hi- what width spacers are needed for the XX cranks using your Ti chainrings?
Thanks


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

oldassracer: that´s 10x14mm diameter washers at 1mm thickness from Wurth.
I bought a box of them, would be available in any lbs for pennies.

Sorry I didn´t sent with them..


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