# Sexism and MTB?



## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

I am new to the forums and this sport, as I am sure a few of you are aware through my bike build thread (thank you all for all of the help with that btw.) But I have noticed a strong trend of sexist men on these forums and on the trails, I don't really understand it. I am an avid climber (ice and rock) I Whitewater Kayak, I have been snowboarding for years and have not noticed this kind of attitude towards women in any of the other sports. I just do not understand why MTB is so different? Maybe this is a dead subject but it is something that is starting to bother me out on the trails and here. Usually I don't mind a few jokes or some playing around but cat calls on the trail, all out degrading women on the forums, its a little much. How do you ladies deal with it? or is it just me?


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## Turmoyl (Aug 1, 2008)

I normally make sure to not post in the Women's Lounge as I figure the whole point of it is to keep guys away, but the title of this topic caught my attention.

I just wanted to say that maybe things are different here in the western half of the U.S. From California to Colorado, and from Washington to Arizona, I have never noticed any sexism. Perhaps I'm not as sensitive to it as you may be but I can't imagine it escaping my attention for so long if it were present.

I currently reside in Reno and there are almost as many female mountain bikers as male here. Our usual trail, an intermediate run with about 1,600 feet of climbing in 4 miles, almost always has more women on it than men. In the last few months I've met at least 5 females and only 3 other males out there. The same goes for the runners on that trail: I see a male perhaps once every 2 weeks, but there is a group of 3 young women, sometimes 4, that come out there and run it together twice per week.

My usual riding partner is now dating a female MTB'er that he met in a weekly riding group so, at least for now, we have a female rider within our own small circle. She kicks my butt no matter what trail we're on, and I admire her for that.

On Labor Day my friend and I did the HITG trail, my most technical and difficult yet, and and one point I got a nasty chain suck that ended up wrapping the chain from the bottom up and over the top, and tangled it up good and proper. After breaking the chain it took the two of us a good 15 minutes to get it untangled, re-threaded, back together, and then to readjust the derailer stops. During that time quite a few people rode past us but 3 of them offered aid... 1 male we had chatted with earlier that day, and 2 females that were complete strangers.

What I'm trying to say is that in my experience women are a valuable part of the MTB world, and I'm glad to have them around. I am not aware that anyone within my circles feels differently.


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## ineedtrainingwheels (Sep 2, 2008)

In my very limited experience, I've gotten nothing but support from men (and the few women I've found here in my area of NC) in real life and online. On mtbr.com, I post here and on the NC/SC forums on occasion, but I read passion, beginner and a couple of other forums quite frequently...and I've not noticed any trend toward sexism. 

Was there a particular thread or particular forum that you've noticed this moreso than in others?


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

ThePinkBarron said:


> I am new to the forums and this sport, as I am sure a few of you are aware through my bike build thread (thank you all for all of the help with that btw.) But I have noticed a strong trend of sexist men on these forums and on the trails, I don't really understand it. I am an avid climber (ice and rock) I Whitewater Kayak, I have been snowboarding for years and have not noticed this kind of attitude towards women in any of the other sports. I just do not understand why MTB is so different? Maybe this is a dead subject but it is something that is starting to bother me out on the trails and here. Usually I don't mind a few jokes or some playing around but cat calls on the trail, all out degrading women on the forums, its a little much. How do you ladies deal with it? or is it just me?


Where are you riding?

I guess I've just never noticed (or maybe just paid much attention to) it. I've noticed plenty of idiots on the forums here, but certainly not moreso than in other sports forums I've read on the internet. And there are a handful of idiot guys at races who are rude, and I guess I could consider it sexist, but I'm pretty sure they're jerks to everyone. Maybe that's just how I interpret it.

I'm trying to think if I've ever encountered anything I'd consider sexist on the trail. I know I've certainly had guys underestimate my abilities because I'm a woman... but then again people do the same thing to a lot of my male friends - whether it's making snap judgements based on a persons bike, age, weight, you name it. So I don't take offense to it - I just make it part of the game to change their perceptions.

And I have gotten some comments on the trail, particularly when I'm in a group of women and they'll say something like "Damn, we're riding in the wrong group!" or "Wow, there's nothing hotter than a bunch of chicks tearing up the trails!" But I guess I don't see anything wrong with that. It's not like I've ever heard anyone making negative comments or crude comments.

Is there really a problem out there and I'm just missing it?


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## rkopelov (May 21, 2008)

*an ounce of opinion*

The majority of MTB sexism I've seen has been on MTBR (irritating little digs about guys "riding like a girl" etc etc). In *the real world*, I've never experienced any sexism related to MTBing--here in Albuquerque in the XC/DH scene, I guess I'm more or less a novelty--guys seem amazed that I can keep up, and are extremely supportive, cheering me on.... I've also done DH/FR with a number of women with Santa Fe, Los Alamos, and Durango, CO--all the men we rode around expressed being happy to have more women on the mountain. If there were sexist comments made, I was never witness to it....

Actually, it's kind of fun being a bigger fish in a smaller pond--in other words, if I were male, my accomplishments (4 foot drop! woo hoo...yeah right) would likely disappear in a hail of much more amazing stunts by the guys around me. As it is, I don't have to do much to be impressive (mostly to myself )--my confidence is bolstered every time I ride. Just a thought.

Interesting thread.


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## tiffanyinanthem (Dec 17, 2007)

*not much*

Pink,

Loved your bike build thread!

I don't really get this from guys out on the trails either. However, some guys from work will not come out and ride with me. They don't want to get "beat by a girl". It's stupid but whatever its their problem. All the guys I've met through mtbr don't care about girls riding on group rides. Everyone has been really supportive. I've never had cat calls out on the trail, I couldn't even imagine that! I have had them on the road though by people passing by in cars.

Tiff


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

personally I feel like mtbr is more or less on the norm for representing the sexes in mountain biking. If there is something that you find_ truly_ offensive,( not the usual hot-chicks-on-bikes stuff) don't hesitate to ask admin or a moderator about it.

If we want to discuss the bike industry overall, check out Pearl Izumi's latest ad offering. You'll have to excuse this, comes from a scan posted on someone's blog,I can't seem to link to the thumbnail.

http://blog.brickhouseracing.com/


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## ineedtrainingwheels (Sep 2, 2008)

DAMN IT! I wish I had seen that before I bought AND wore my new PI full finger gloves. That ad is just....just....disgusting. I like the way the blog owner wrote "jersey meat" because that is EXACTLY how a woman's body is portrayed in that ad.

Absolutely sickening. :madmax:


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Well I just brought it up because yesterday I was taking a long lunch and figured I would go tear up the trail down the road from my work, and I was treated extremely rudely by a group of guys, I kind of shrugged it off at first but it got to the point that they were trying to follow me and honestly I was creeped out by it. Luckily I went over a roller and then doubled back onto another trail before they noticed I had changed directions. I don't know maybe it was just the one experience but it seems that I get all kinds of off collar comments on the trails, even when riding with my boyfriend, it upsets him as well I tend to have to calm him down about it. 

I don't know usually I am not bothered, today I saw a few small things on the forums and was starting to think it was a MTB community wide issue, but it appears that it isn't. Thanks for the replies people I really appreciate it, I cant wait to get the Mojo built up so I can just fly by the people who bother me


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

There are a few ladies that are a part of the group that I ride with, and many more that I run across on the trail and roads. It's a relaxed scene. I'm 30 years old, and almost everybody is around my age or a bit older. We're just there to ride our bikes and have fun for a few hours before going back to reality, and the most sexist jokes/comments that I can recall over the last year or so amount to heckling somebody to "stop riding like a girl" if he/she is riding poorly. I can't imagine any secure lady to get her lycra in a bunch over this. Oh, and I live in SoCal.

--Antoine


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## ineedtrainingwheels (Sep 2, 2008)

That kind of behavior in grown persons is completely asinine. I would have been completely creeped too. 

I'd be interested to know what you saw on the forums today. PM me if you can. 

Jodey


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

I followed ThePinkBarron into this thread.

*acts creepy*


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

You know it may just be that here in Maine MTB is not that big really, and the people here are not used to having a girl on the trails? I dont know I have seen a few others but not many. A lot of the time you can go out for 3-4 hours and not run into another person let alone another girl.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

ThePinkBarron said:


> You know it may just be that here in Maine MTB is not that big really, and the people here are not used to having a girl on the trails? I dont know I have seen a few others but not many. A lot of the time you can go out for 3-4 hours and not run into another person let alone another girl.


That, and maybe the lycra. It's not uncommon out here to see cyclists standing in line at Starbucks, in their lycra......


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Vlad said:


> That, and maybe the lycra. It's not uncommon out here to see cyclists standing in line at Starbucks, in their lycra......


I tend to rock my board shorts, not baggies but Im not a fan of Lycra. You see women walking down the street in more revealing stuff than these.. 

stuff like this http://www.travelcountry.com/shop/p...shorts-womens.html?RefId=29&RefType=Affiliate


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

Yowza. My ex-GF couldn't handle riding more than a few miles without lycra and padding and all that good stuff........ I don't think I want to have this discussion. 

Maybe the dudes in Maine are starved for women who have unusual hobbies? I don't know.

--Antoine


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Vlad said:


> Yowza. My ex-GF couldn't handle riding more than a few miles without lycra and padding and all that good stuff........ I don't think I want to have this discussion.
> 
> Maybe the dudes in Maine are starved for women who have unusual hobbies? I don't know.
> 
> --Antoine


Haha, I just find it uncomfortable, the board shorts are great they breath well, and they are light. :thumbsup:

Who knows what those guys problem was, I just didn't care to be chased down and harassed. Never much fun.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

Is it my imagination or has the order of the posts been scrambled somehow?

--Antoine


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Vlad said:


> Is it my imagination or has the order of the posts been scrambled somehow?
> 
> --Antoine


 looks normal to me.


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## ebshot (Sep 9, 2008)

ThePinkBarron said:


> I tend to rock my board shorts, not baggies but Im not a fan of Lycra. You see women walking down the street in more revealing stuff than these..
> 
> stuff like this http://www.travelcountry.com/shop/p...shorts-womens.html?RefId=29&RefType=Affiliate


Cute shorts!

I'm a total newbie but I've yet to see anyone on the trails out here. Hikers but not one biker. I did see one at the end of my run the other day but it was a girl with a sweet bike! It sucks that you are having to deal with this. Hopefully it won't be an issue again! !:thumbsup:


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## Modena (Apr 3, 2007)

In every sport or even every aspect of day to day life you will find people who have large ego's to maintain and imo, it's generally these people that are rude to both men and women. I think the reason that some people see this more in MTB'ing (everybody views sexism a little differently) is due to the fact that your encounters with people are more direct, for the lack of better word. In my experience, the only time that people really ever converse in skiing/snowboarding are either when accidents occur or on the lift. In the case of accidents the conversation is very brief, usually limited to the apology and the "Are you ok?", if yes both people are on their way. On the other hand, when your on the trail there is much more opportunity to chat and interact with people. For me it seems that I end up chatting trail side on every ride.

Where I ride, I see a decent amount of women riders on the trail, but I don't really treat them any differently than I do a guy. If I end up chatting with them, it's usually on things like the trail, trail conditions, bikes, basically the usual crap. I have been impressed by some women riders, but it has less to do with the fact they're a woman and more to due with the fact they are just plain good riders. Now I will admit that I due find some women riders quite attractive, but that's just me being a guy, and even then I keep my opinions to myself or keep my comments light hearted and friendly.

But those are just my $0.02.


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## Sades (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm not sure where you are from in Maine, but I am originally from NH, and I would guess from my own experiences that it is mostly in that region. There really aren't that many women riders over there, and the ones who I came across were not all that experienced. I think that the guys there, just aren't used to encountering women on the trails and are blown away if they are as good or better riders than them. I have to say that it is a million times better there than when I rode on the Big Island in HI. I haven't seen anything like that here in Bellingham, WA though. I think the only advice I can give is to try and ignore the guys who do that, and maybe ride with someone else on the trails you don't feel comfortable on.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Sades said:


> I'm not sure where you are from in Maine, but I am originally from NH, and I would guess from my own experiences that it is mostly in that region. There really aren't that many women riders over there, and the ones who I came across were not all that experienced. I think that the guys there, just aren't used to encountering women on the trails and are blown away if they are as good or better riders than them. I have to say that it is a million times better there than when I rode on the Big Island in HI. I haven't seen anything like that here in Bellingham, WA though. I think the only advice I can give is to try and ignore the guys who do that, and maybe ride with someone else on the trails you don't feel comfortable on.


Most of my riding is done with my boyfriend anyhow, thank you 

Just the occasional lunchbreak ride, or the after work ride that I am alone.


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## verslowrdr (Mar 22, 2004)

ThePinkBarron said:


> ...I was treated extremely rudely by a group of guys, I kind of shrugged it off at first but it got to the point that they were trying to follow me and honestly I was creeped out by it. Luckily I went over a roller and then doubled back onto another trail before they noticed I had changed directions. I don't know maybe it was just the one experience but it seems that I get all kinds of off collar comments on the trails, even when riding with my boyfriend, it upsets him as well I tend to have to calm him down about it....


I think it's time we all chipped in and bought you a paint ball gun and a holster to put it on your bike. Make sure it's always loaded with hot pink of course. THAT should make your lunch time ride a whole lot more fun! :devil:

My reaction to that sort of crap would probably be to stop dead and start in on them with something subtle like "*WTF IS YOUR MALFUNCTION?!?*" But apparently boys can smell my (probably ill advised) short temper from a ways away and usually leave me alone.


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## smudd (Oct 25, 2006)

*sort of know what you mean...*

I can't point to one specific sexist comment or interaction with any one specific man.

However, I can say at times I've felt the patronizing tone of the complement "wow, you just did that? that's awesome!" when discussing a move I may have just completed or a section of trail I've cleaned. As in a sense of "I'm really impressed that a _girl_ just completed that" as opposed to a man being impressed with another _person_ completing a complicated skill. It's the same tone that tells you if a man had just done the exact same thing there would be no applause, no wonder, no complement. It would have been expected that he complete the move because he posses testicles and therefore has sufficient skill to complete the move.

However, in their defense, I've never felt that the men making the comments have ever meant to be pigs. I feel they really were impressed by my MTBing prowess and that they genuinely wanted to complement me. They probably just didn't see that big ol' chip on my shoulder that causes me to constantly measure my performance against the men I ride with. Shame on me for not being able to take a complement and just enjoy the ride...


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

ThePinkBarron said:


> . . . I kind of shrugged it off at first but it got to the point that they were trying to follow me and honestly I was creeped out by it. . .


That is kind of scary. I'm sorry you went through that.

I rode the Bradbury 12 race over in Pownal, Maine last weekend, and met quite a few really cool male and female Maine riders, so I'm hoping the losers you bumped into are in the minority in that state.

Antonio


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

smudd said:


> I can't point to one specific sexist comment or interaction with any one specific man.
> 
> However, I can say at times I've felt the patronizing tone of the complement "wow, you just did that? that's awesome!" when discussing a move I may have just completed or a section of trail I've cleaned. As in a sense of "I'm really impressed that a _girl_ just completed that" as opposed to a man being impressed with another _person_ completing a complicated skill. It's the same tone that tells you if a man had just done the exact same thing there would be no applause, no wonder, no complement. It would have been expected that he complete the move because he posses testicles and therefore has sufficient skill to complete the move.
> 
> However, in their defense, I've never felt that the men making the comments have ever meant to be pigs. I feel they really were impressed by my MTBing prowess and that they genuinely wanted to complement me. They probably just didn't see that big ol' chip on my shoulder that causes me to constantly measure my performance against the men I ride with. Shame on me for not being able to take a complement and just enjoy the ride...


Yeah - I get that every once in a while (in skiing too) - the "Wow, you're really good, for a girl". And it's obvious the guy who said it genuinely meant it as a compliment and they just don't understand that it's offensive. Sometimes I'll say something (like if it's from a guy friend) - trying to keep it nice so they realize I know what they meant but it didn't come across quite right - like a laughing "yeah thanks, I'm working on it. One of these days I'm hoping to be good among mountain bikers in general..."

Anyway - regarding guys acting weird on the trail - I think someone else said the same thing, but guys don't tend to mess with me in person. I've gotten "Nice $&#!" yelled at me from guys in cars when I'm riding on the road, but never from someone who was close enough that I could respond. Maybe my short fuse is as easy to see as my boobs.


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## mes2003 (Jul 29, 2005)

PinkBarron--I'm sorry to hear you have had these experiences. I am not sure where you are and where you ride in Maine, but I live in the Portland area and have never had these types of thing happen to me here. I ride a lot and do quite a bit of racing in Maine and although I am no expert, I really have never experienced this. The group I ride with is very welcoming and has lots of women members too. I would encourage you to hook up with us if you live in the area--
www.rageonportland.com There are members of all ages and abilities and usually 2 or 3 weekly rides posted to the listserv.

Now, if you were to ask me about mtb vs. roadies, that's another story altogether......


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

I came back about an hour ago from a great group ride. We were joined by a fast, friendly, and beautiful, expert-class racer lady. I rode behind her for a moment and enjoyed the view. Is that so wrong?


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## badjenny (Mar 13, 2006)

Vlad said:


> I came back about an hour ago from a great group ride. We were joined by a fast, friendly, and beautiful, expert-class racer lady. I rode behind her for a moment and enjoyed the view. Is that so wrong?


As long as you didn't call her sweet cheeks.

As for the original post, I came from a road back ground and I can say that I met a lot more ego fragile roadies than I ever have on the dirt.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*As I have said many, many times before*

the women on this forum and women mountain bikers in general represent a very small population of mounting biking athletes. They are also the newest part of the population and still, in most places, a novelty. As such the greater population has yet to come to terms with this experience and normative behavior and acceptance have not developed.

Bill Cosby said that decency was how you treated your grandmother. Character has been defined as what you do when no one is looking. What you do in grandmas house and what you do in the middle of a forest upon seeing a girl on a mountain bike can be very different things.

You guys are on the cutting edge. This thoughtless treatment will change over time as experience and customs develop.

to boldly go where no woman has gone before.......


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

My own circle of mtb buds happen to be pretty cool, and I'm grateful for that. But among some of the other guys, I often have to remind them that there's women amongst them who don't like certain links and images posted. 

Not that I'm a prude- if anything, I adamant about giving women equal amounts of eye candy- but mtb is testosterone-heavy enough without the locker-room atmosphere added to it. Makes me feel alienated when my buds start discussing porn links and semi-porn photos.

Early on, when I first started biking, the macho BS was palatable, and I'd bike alone (this was before the internet and finding local groups); now, it's not as prevalent.


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## Vlad (Feb 7, 2004)

I honestly don't care if some of the women on our group rides want to talk about which guys they find hot, or sex or porn or whatever. 

I'm not knocking any of you ladies who have experienced some degree of sexism, but I don't think I've noticed any of this stuff in the 19 years that I've been riding. Rather, I was expecting complaints about rude and uptight bike riders who can't crack a smile, treat each group ride like it's a race, and can't be bothered to wait for the slower riders.

--Antoine


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## mtmtbkr (Jul 16, 2008)

A remark is truly offensive only if it is meant to offend. 

A compliment that you take as offensive is an interpretation, not an attack.

If a man says, "Wow, you just cleaned that entire section." He is giving a compliment to you and nothing else. If you infer from this that he means "...for a girl", the problem is your ego and not his.

When I ask a friend if his panties are too tight, it is an offensive comment made in jest and thus, not offensive at all. It is merely a joke and anyone taking offense when overhearing said comment is being a bit too sensitive.

Just a humble opinion.

Now, ANY instance where a rider is made to feel unsafe on a trail as the Pink Baron was is wholly unacceptable.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

mtmtbkr said:


> A remark is truly offensive only if it is meant to offend. . .


Sorry, but you're wrong.

You may not agree with other people's perspectives, but you should respect the unique experiences and values that led to those perspectives.

Antonio


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

mtmtbkr said:


> A remark is truly offensive only if it is meant to offend.
> 
> A compliment that you take as offensive is an interpretation, not an attack.
> 
> ...


So by your logic, if you were pulled over in your car for speeding, and you asked the cop what smells like bacon... he shouldn't take offense to it because it was in jest? Goodluck with that.


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## mtmtbkr (Jul 16, 2008)

"So by your logic, if you were pulled over in your car for speeding, and you asked the cop what smells like bacon... he shouldn't take offense to it because it was in jest? Goodluck with that."

You are mistaken. In your example, I would be remarking sarcastically to the officer in question. It would be a direct affront to him and thus, it would be offensive. Specifically because the comment was directed toward and intended to offend him personally.

Now, if I was in a Diner eating breakfast, and an officer eating in the same establishment overheard me commenting..." it smells an awful lot like Bacon in here." He would be wrong in assuming that I was meaning to offend him.

Being overly sensitive is never a good thing, and feeling persecuted solely because you interpret the comments of others to be offensive is a silly way to live.

FWIW - I have been riding since the late 80's and I have never once experienced ANYONE acting in the manner you described above (in your original post). 

I have ridden with novice riders (both male and female) as well as professional riders (both male and female) and all skill levels in between. 

Not once have I encountered the "Sexism" that people here find so prevalent. 

Not in the North East (NY, Mass, VT, Maine, or NH), not in the Southwest (AZ, Utah, N. Mexico, Colorado) or in the Northwest (Mt, Idaho, Oregon, Washington).

Again, just my own experiences. Again, I feel bad that you had to feel any way but ecstatic to be out on your local trails. The way the riders mentioned treated you was wrong and reprehensible. 

Hopefully you will never have to have an experience like that again.


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## gatorchick (Nov 5, 2006)

I can't say that I have ever experienced sexism while riding - at least not anything that was bad enough that it sticks out in my mind. I don't really do group rides because I love the solitude and quiet of riding alone but I have met and talked to plenty of guys on the trail and they have been nothing but friendly and supportive and not in a condescending sort of way. Every once in a while I DO I feel like I'm being hit on but they are always pretty subtle about it.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

*Huge!*

"Being overly sensitive is never a good thing, and feeling persecuted solely because you interpret the comments of others to be offensive is a silly way to live."

A very, very good point.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Berkeley Mike said:


> "Being overly sensitive is never a good thing, and feeling persecuted solely because you interpret the comments of others to be offensive is a silly way to live."
> 
> A very, very good point.


But being completely insensitive is no better.


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## mtmtbkr (Jul 16, 2008)

> But being completely insensitive is no better.


I agree.


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## Pedals Fastly (Jan 30, 2007)

I've never seen or heard male mountain bikers harrassing female mountain bikers. There are quite a bit of females on the trails in Austin. Also, be careful of projecting a bias onto men. The other day a male rider made it up a very technical climb, and I said, "NICE" to congratulate him. If I said that to a female rider in the same tone I would hope she wouldn't project some insecurity or bias against men against me and take it in some sexist way.


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## Jwind (Mar 1, 2006)

ThePinkBarron said:


> You know it may just be that here in Maine MTB is not that big really, and the people here are not used to having a girl on the trails? I dont know I have seen a few others but not many. A lot of the time you can go out for 3-4 hours and not run into another person let alone another girl.


I live in Maine. While men out number female riders quite obviously (not unlike the rest of the country) i do not notice any sexisim. I ride with women all the time, i see them all the time on the trail and it's always been nothing but positive.


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## scrublover (Dec 30, 2003)

Disclaimer: yes, I'm a guy.

Seems like empty beer is a fairly random sampling of the mtb world and it's sexism. Seen it plenty of times firsthand (the "hey, pretty good, for a girl" or extremely blatant and pathetic hitting on attempts) and it seems far less prevalent in real life mtb land vs. the intarwebs. Not something I really think about much, having ridden with plenty of very strong female cyclists.

I think much of it has to do with the overall numbers of female riders, combined with general societal expectations and conditioning. Millions of years of evolution/conditioning telling us that the men are supposed to be the tough ones, the strong ones, the ones to take care of the females is hard to break. It's (IMO) not that some of the comments are _meant_ to be sexist, it's just that it's something outside of many guys experience. "Dude, a chick kicking ass on a bike? Whoa."

I've ridden quite a bit out west and east, and it seems like it's a bit more blatant in the west. Or that could be just my perception, having spent more riding time out there overall, and thaat there are higher numbers of trail users that I encountered out west.

Mrs. Scrub doesn't ride, but trail runs, and has some pretty interesting/entertaining/icky/skeevy stories to tell of trail encounters. I get a lot of comments from other guys I ride with/have ridden with about that as well. "Your wife doesn't ride? That sucks." "So when ya going to get the little lady out on a bike" sort of stuff. Meh. She's happy running, I'm happy riding. We hit the same trails together and meet back up at the car, and it works for us. Anniversary trip to Moabe for nine days this year, built around _her_ running the Moab Other Half marthon. Side bonus: I get to bring a bike and cram in a crapload of desert riding. :thumbsup:

Apologies for the rambling, it's a slow night at work.


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## Stylishxone767 (Aug 22, 2008)

I am not supposed to comment on the woman's section, but couldnt help it. How exactly do you experience sexism while moving? I pull my bike off the truck, then ride onto the trail, peddle until im finished and leave. Not a whole lot of conversation going on for many people to offend me or me to offend anyone else. Are you talking about forums?


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

I don't think mountain biking is any more or less sexist than the world in general. Definitely it is more male dominated than, say, gymnastics or synchronized swimming. I have certainly heard bizarre (to me) comments like "I didn't know women even liked to ride technical trails". But I have also heard bizarre things in the regular world like "Wow you are sure young and pretty for a doctor". Most often, the speaker has no idea that that bizarre statements in question could be construed as offensive.

It's a man's world, baby, and it takes too much energy to be offended at all the idiots all the time. Enjoy the ride, ignore the lamers, and if you can hammer the dimwits while riding, even more power to ya.


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## srlooney (May 10, 2008)

hmmm.... I have been a rider and racer for the last 5 years, and have not experienced a lot of sexism...if anything, it's been in my favor b/c guys are like, "Oh look! A girl who rides bikes! Wow!" I am kind of new to the mtbr forums though. If someone is a sexist to you, it wouldn't take much to shut them up.... just a clever, persnickety comment should do the trick!! 

http://sonyalooney.missingsaddle.com


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Stylishxone767 said:


> I am not supposed to comment on the woman's section, but couldnt help it. How exactly do you experience sexism while moving?


Actually I can think of one way (and it's often confirmed by my boyfriend if he is riding behind me me). A guy is pedalling uphill, like on a fireroad. A guy will pass him and he will look up, but then keep on trucking at the same rate. If I or another girl pass that rider, there is a good chance that the guy will ratchet up his effort in order to not get "chicked". Sometimes that rider can pass me fine, sometimes they blow up and I drop them, but that initiation of effort is more likely when it is a girl passing.

Girls here know what I'm saying.  Calling it "sexist" is a stretch, but I'd call it "interesting gender dynamics" on the trail. By the way, its all good, nothing wrong with trying to pass people.


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

Impy said:


> Actually I can think of one way (and it's often confirmed by my boyfriend if he is riding behind me me). A guy is pedalling uphill, like on a fireroad. A guy will pass him and he will look up, but then keep on trucking at the same rate. If I or another girl pass that rider, there is a good chance that the guy will ratchet up his effort in order to not get "chicked". Sometimes that rider can pass me fine, sometimes they blow up and I drop them, but that initiation of effort is more likely when it is a girl passing.
> 
> Girls here know what I'm saying.  Calling it "sexist" is a stretch, but I'd call it "interesting gender dynamics" on the trail. By the way, its all good, nothing wrong with trying to pass people.


"Chicked"? I like it!
I certainly enjoy passing guys on a tough climb or techy section. Especially during a race-- it gives me an extra boost of adrenaline! I guess that means I am sexist, too.
Sexism is not confined to mountain biking. But it takes waaaay too much effort to get offended by every insensitive comment, or to carry a chip on your shoulder to the point where you interpret every compliment as having a "...for a girl" attached. I take the compliments (and the dirty looks when I'm riding past) at face value, indications that someone thinks I am a strong or good (better) rider.  
By being out there, we mountain biking gals are all helping to change the perception of the sport. As more women discover it, there will be less of the "boys club" attitude.


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## stingray_coach (Jun 27, 2006)

ebshot said:


> Cute shorts!
> 
> I'm a total newbie but I've yet to see anyone on the trails out here. Hikers but not one biker. I did see one at the end of my run the other day but it was a girl with a sweet bike! It sucks that you are having to deal with this. Hopefully it won't be an issue again! !:thumbsup:


The shorts didn't open up for me...but I have to say I am in love with the chick on the surf board. seriously. ; )


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## essenmeinstuff (Sep 4, 2007)

I'm usually stoked to see girls on the trails 

I'm especially stoked to see that my wife is starting to understand this whole mtb rubbish.

As a community I would hope that any sexist behavior (and other inappropriate for this day and age behavior) either on the trail or in the inter web results in a proverbial lynching of the offender, from both guys and girls, cos sexism is so 1950.

Go ride :thumbsup:


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## chainsuck (Feb 21, 2005)

ThePinkBarron said:


> But being completely insensitive is no better.


How about: be thoughtful of what you tell others, be lenient towards what comes at you.

Oh, and if anybody unintentionally insinuated that doctors were all elderly and ugly, while you were a living proof they weren't, you gotta be one st00pid, insecure, OCD doctor to take offense.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

chainsuck said:


> How about: be thoughtful of what you tell others, be lenient towards what comes at you.
> 
> Oh, and if anybody unintentionally insinuated that doctors were all elderly and ugly, while you were a living proof they weren't, you gotta be one st00pid, insecure, OCD doctor to take offense.


I question whether you even read the original post about me be harassed on the trail its not the "pretty good for a girl" comments at all I never said that it was, it just happened to be an example that many people who participated in the convo used as being the only form of any sort of sexism that they have seen (albeit a very minor form of it.) I was not complaining about that, I was complaining about being chased across the singletrack getting cat called at, and dealing with immature _boys_ and snide remarks about me personally, not just "girls". So I thank you for participating in the convo, but next time read the whole thing. :skep:


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## cdalemaniac (Jun 18, 2007)

ThePinkBarron said:


> I was complaining about being chased across the singletrack getting cat called at :skep:


:smallviolin: 
I guess that's the price one pays for being just incredibly hot... :lol: :lol:
(BTW that goes for both Genders, so don't take offense, okay? :devil: )


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## stingray_coach (Jun 27, 2006)

*Getting chicked?*

lol...that has to be one of the most retarded things I have ever heard. Off ths subject of the orginal post...although it always makes it around to this subject. I could care less who passes me...I will dice with whoever comes along and if I get dropped...it makes no difference whether it is male or female. Women seem to really take pride in "chicking" a guy...why I don't know. Who cares? Ride your bike, have fun.

My wife and I ride both mtn and road bikes...she has her strong pionts and I have mine. She will however put in extra efforts on her strong pionts, normally the long climbs. She takes off and I ride my own pace. Even though she says it is for getting a work out...she doesnt do it if I am on her tail or if I pass her. Kind of like she getting some kind of rush from beating me or any guy up a hill. Kind of like the rest of the women here. I mean...it is your goal to beat men? Prove yourself to men? Or just have a good time riding?

Those of you who feel slow...give it time, don't worry about being as fast as your b/f. Just have a good time and ride for yourself.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

cdalemaniac said:


> :smallviolin:
> I guess that's the price one pays for being just incredibly hot... :lol: :lol:
> (BTW that goes for both Genders, so don't take offense, okay? :devil: )


I don't know if it was sexism or sexual harassment, but the OP obviously experienced something that most decent people wouldn't wish on anyone, and you want to make light of it?!?!??!!

:skep:

Antonio


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## stingray_coach (Jun 27, 2006)

antonio said:


> I don't know if it was sexism or sexual harassment, but the OP obviously experienced something that most decent people wouldn't wish on anyone, and you want to make light of it?!?!??!!
> 
> :skep:
> 
> Antonio


Settle down francis.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

stingray_coach said:


> Settle down francis.


Clever.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

stingray_coach said:


> I mean...it is your goal to beat men? Prove yourself to men? Or just have a good time riding?


Yes.


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## TVC15 (Jun 6, 2004)

stingray_coach said:


> Women seem to really take pride in "chicking" a guy...why I don't know.


You don't get it, stingray. A guy who doesn't care about the gender of who passes them can't be chicked. It's the ones that _do_, that make chicking them so fun. :lol:

It's the face they make. Hard to describe ... just kinda astonished, indignant, pissy, and humbled all at the same time; under a half-hearted attempt to pass off this _"Lalalala .... I can't see you ....."_ face. You'd have to see it for yourself to get in on the fun.


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## cdalemaniac (Jun 18, 2007)

antonio said:


> I don't know if it was sexism or sexual harassment, but the OP obviously experienced something that most decent people wouldn't wish on anyone, and you want to make light of it?!?!??!!
> 
> :skep:
> 
> Antonio


Not at all, just trying to calm her down....:devil: 
And that's why I wrote "One" not "You".
See, if someone makes a comment you don't like, approach those guys/gals that did the cat calling to shut them up.....
If it constantly happens, than maybe there's more to the story than the OP might wants to let us know.
Seriously, I can not imagine that every time she goes out to ride someone harasses her......
Unless she rides in some red-neck back country or something.
If it is the same person all the time and they won't quit, kick their a$$es, if that doesn't help find another trail.
Be part of the solution, not the problem.
Just complaining about it won't solve anything.
Like Phil Collins said: You always need to hear both sides of the story.
And for some reason you can't say anything here in the USA without someone taking offense.
If I wouldn't get along with anyone I'd meet, then maybe it's me after all and not "them".
Just my 2 cents.


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## TVC15 (Jun 6, 2004)

cdalemaniac said:


> Phil Collins


:lol:

.
.
.


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

Only happened once, if it happened repeatedly then wouldnt you think that I would have mentioned that? Im not a complete fool, I think I could figure out that if every time I went to the same trail I got harassed that I probably should not go to that trail anymore...


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## stingray_coach (Jun 27, 2006)

TVC15 said:


> You don't get it, stingray. A guy who doesn't care about the gender of who passes them can't be chicked. It's the ones that _do_, that make chicking them so fun. :lol:
> 
> It's the face they make. Hard to describe ... just kinda astonished, indignant, pissy, and humbled all at the same time; under a half-hearted attempt to pass off this _"Lalalala .... I can't see you ....."_ face. You'd have to see it for yourself to get in on the fun.


lol...I hate everyone who passes me. Not really...well kind of and I whisper "I hate you".


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## Neurodoc (May 7, 2008)

Oh there's terrible, awful sexism in mountain biking.

Today I was out with a women's beginner mtb group, and we stopped to regroup near a teeter-totter. A guy rode past, and tried to go around. We called out, "What, aren't you gonna go for it?"

"We all did it," said a small, blonde woman, with a decidedly evil glint in her eye. She was lying. It was a beginner ride. None of us had.

So the poor guy doubled back and did the teeter-totter. He looked totally terrified, and like he was going to fall off at one point. But he made it.

We are bad bad people. But at least we all gave him a big cheer for clearing it.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

TVC15 said:


> You don't get it, stingray. A guy who doesn't care about the gender of who passes them can't be chicked. It's the ones that _do_, that make chicking them so fun. :lol:
> 
> It's the face they make. Hard to describe ... just kinda astonished, indignant, pissy, and humbled all at the same time; under a half-hearted attempt to pass off this _"Lalalala .... I can't see you ....."_ face. You'd have to see it for yourself to get in on the fun.


I like to think of it as 50% "O" face and 50% "WTF?"


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## cdalemaniac (Jun 18, 2007)

TVC15 said:


> :lol:
> 
> .
> .
> .


Hey....he's one great artist!


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## MtbRN (Jun 8, 2006)

Neurodoc said:


> Oh there's terrible, awful sexism in mountain biking.
> 
> Today I was out with a women's beginner mtb group, and we stopped to regroup near a teeter-totter. A guy rode past, and tried to go around. We called out, "What, aren't you gonna go for it?"
> 
> ...


One of the truisms of mountain biking. Ego will make you a better rider. I have cleaned many tricky-looking sections of trail (that I would have walked had I been alone) because there was a audience.
One the other hand, Ego has been responsible for many a nasty wreck, also!


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## cdalemaniac (Jun 18, 2007)

ThePinkBarron said:


> Only happened once, if it happened repeatedly then wouldnt you think that I would have mentioned that? Im not a complete fool, I think I could figure out that if every time I went to the same trail I got harassed that I probably should not go to that trail anymore...


Well, there you go....in your original post you wrote "It starts to bother me".
Then you wrote about the incident where a group of immature boys chased you and did the cat calling.
Then you wrote that it even happens when you're out with your BF and that it bothers him too.
So.....that makes it more than just one incident ...right?
I'm not saying here you have issues...no....I'm not saying that the behavior you experienced is okay either....all I meant is you need to tell them because if you don't they think it's okay to continue!
A little bit off topic but pretty much applicable to your situation is that I don't like to watch this Country to go further down the drain, so I'll go and vote (I believe in Change  ) because if I don't it would be pretty hypocritical of me to complain later...at least I can say I did my part.....


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## ThePinkBarron (Aug 28, 2008)

cdalemaniac said:


> Well, there you go....in your original post you wrote "It starts to bother me".
> Then you wrote about the incident where a group of immature boys chased you and did the cat calling.
> Then you wrote that it even happens when you're out with your BF and that it bothers him too.
> So.....that makes it more than just one incident ...right?
> ...


I said that the one specific incident of me getting chased only happened once, yes when I am out with my BF people still make snide remarks, it is not "pretty good for a girl" its more like, "what is barbie doing out here" or "shouldn't your bike be pink" (btw I wish it was but that is besides the point) its just guys out on "guy rides" who are too cool to be seen on the trail with their wives and girlfriends. I have stood up for myself but it tends to end in the laughter of the whole _macho_ group (refer to village people), so I have learned to ignore it, this whole thread started because I was actually chased... I was scared to death so I started this thread, and since then my experiences and that incident have been spun completely off the original topic. Sorry that I was scared to death being chased by a group of guys, sorry that I thought I could mention some of the snide comments about women on the trails to go along with it, you know this is the _womens_ forum, I thought maybe some of the _women_ here would have something to say about it. And really most of them did, and they were able to provide words of encouragement. So thanks to those who came to this thread to provide support, and who were able to help with this issue. I wont be posting in this thread anymore because it has been twisted beyond control.


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## cdalemaniac (Jun 18, 2007)

ThePinkBarron said:


> Sorry that I was scared to death being chased by a group of guys, sorry that I thought I could mention some of the snide comments about women on the trails to go along with it...


No, I'm sorry that because of some ignorant people out there you can't or don't feel safe to ride and enjoy those trails anymore!


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## TVC15 (Jun 6, 2004)

ThePinkBarron said:


> I was complaining about being chased across the singletrack getting cat called at


I honestly have no idea what part of that would not be immensly enjoyable.


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## badjenny (Mar 13, 2006)

MtbRN said:


> Ego will make you a better rider. I have cleaned many tricky-looking sections of trail (that I would have walked had I been alone) because there was a audience.


Ha ha, so true! I remember riding a tech section on a local trail a few years back and there was a REI group (skills class I guess) all stopped at this section looking at it and talking about the line as I rode up. The head hancho says, "watch her line as she comes through". Huh? Watch my line? Uh, ok. It was the cleanest run I had on that section up to that point, so I guess I learned something that day too. Pretty funny that a group of strangers gave me the cajones to charge through.


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## Bonkbonk (Apr 20, 2008)

These guys talk smack to each other that is the equivalent if not worse than what they may say about us. Have you ever heard how most of these guys abuse each other? They insult everything about each other and taunt, etc...

I think I may be dating one of the most outwardly sexist men on the trail- and he kisses my dirty little feet every time we get finished riding. I am not saying what they are doing is right, but I certainly let him know how good he looks in his lycra shorts, and I admit that I can be just as much of a pig as he can. I am all about taking advantage of the testosterone rush they get- and yes, I'll let him buy my beer at the end of the ride...


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## srlooney (May 10, 2008)

*A little unrelated but...*

OMG! Dave Wiens is in the NY Times!!! Check it out!!!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/14/sports/othersports/14cycling.html

So awesome. He's my hero.


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## MrsBungle (Jul 14, 2007)

*I didnt read all the follow ups but...*

I almost never post on Mtbr, but I wanted to comment about this.... I have to say that when I first started downhill biking a year and a half ago, I felt more irritated with the way girls acted then guys.. That is to say, I felt that negativity and competitive-ness from the girls. It seems like some women are just out to be the best/better than everyone else, maybe because they feel inadequate in a male dominated sport, I cant really say. But I have talked to other women riders who have felt the same way... However, this year in particular, there seems to be a wider array of girls riding out there than there was even just last year which is refreshing!

Just my two cents


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## OilcanRacer (Jan 4, 2008)

well.....here in utah it is a mtb mecca.  during the 9-5 work hours the trails are mostly females. i work nights so that is when i ride. your experience seems to be more of a geographic problem than a mtb problem. 
from everybody i have talked to, if that ever happened here even the forest animals would rise up against the culprits. sorry to hear of your negitive experience. and hope that it doesn't limit your riding.

respect for the individual is important and should be followed, male or female.
i say stick to your guns and lead the way with example.


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## Di_bear (Sep 3, 2006)

ThePinkBarron said:


> I don't know usually I am not bothered, today I saw a few small things on the forums and was starting to think it was a MTB community wide issue, but it appears that it isn't. Thanks for the replies people I really appreciate it, I cant wait to get the Mojo built up so I can just fly by the people who bother me


I'm from Michigan, and a part of the Michigan Mountain Biking Assoc, so I hang out on that forum a lot more than this one. What I've found with mountain biking is that the MTB community in my region is generally quite friendly. The guys WANT to get the girls into mountain biking, mostly because they need someone who can accept their bike spree spending habits.  As an intermediate female rider, I prefer riding with the guys. It's more playful, imo.

I haven't encountered any sexism, but that doesn't mean we've never razzed each other. The other day, I took some excellent riders out for a tour of a local trail system. One of the trails has a really long, skinny bridge that is optional to ride over. Several of the guys tried it, but none of them could do the whole thing. From behind came one of our local female riders. To put it simply, she's good. She completed the skinny and I made a crack to the guys about how a girl could ride it better than they could. 

One thing to remember about the MTBR forums is that the users aren't just from the United States. There are people from different areas and cultures, and you will most likely witness something that you find undesirable.


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## Consuela (Jun 13, 2008)

*Rode with 70+ mtbr'ers yesterday and...*

So, I did the Henry Coe Fall Circus ride with 70+ other NorCal MTBRers yesterday and it was super cool to meet so many ppl whose mtbr names I recognized.

I have to say all the guys I met were super awesome! Very friendly and encouraging without talking down. When I spoke with some of them, they had this coolest grin that was like they thought it was cool to have chicks there. (and I don't consider myself a "hottie", so I don't think that is why they were smiling.  ) I was in the D group, which was the slowest and shortest group of the ride (still 16 miles). But, they just seemed genuinely happy to see women out there no matter what group we rode with. And, there were women hammering it in the other groups, too. :thumbsup:

Got some bike talk in with Octane and Derek at the dried up creek about my Heckler and they were super respectful and not condascending at all. Part way into it, I asked them for some parts advice and they really put some thought into it and had some good things to say.

Anyway, hang in there and hope you have some better experiences very soon. Unfortunately, anywhere you go (even on mtbr), there will be d!cks or at least people who do d1ckish things.


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## DanyCO (Oct 27, 2008)

I've only had positive experience as far as men treating me with respect when it comes to riding. Mostly I am just told I need to get out and ride more. 

I think in a sport that does have such a high number of men though, there will always be those who make the rude comments or treat you differently because of gender.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

Sorry to hear that you have this problem. When I go on group MTB rides there are actually more women then men, it's a fun sport for both sexes to enjoy. I hope that you have no more bad experiences. I wish my wife biked more with me.


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