# Clipless or Nah?



## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

I'm a newer rider, on flats. I am doing my best to expand my confidence and skill on the bike and making strides. The twist here is that I am primarily a roadie and have been clipped in forever. So I am wondering if it might make sense for me to switch to SPD on the MTB to eliminate a technique variable (foot placement, maintaining good contact, etc). For the record, I am riding DMR Vaults with PI flats (I like them). What do you guys think?


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## abeckstead (Feb 29, 2012)

As a new MTB rider... stay on the flats. You need to learn how to keep your weight in your feet through different terrain and maneuvers. Many people switch to clipless on MTB before they've mastered the base skills necessary to progress. A one on one skills lesson with a good coach would probably open your eyes to what I'm saying. I prefer to ride in clipless, it's another level of control. But I also switch back n forth with flats to keep myself in check. Over time it's possible to get lazy and develop bad habits without even realizing it.


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## Has Been (Nov 3, 2008)

Bikeworks said:


> I'm a newer rider, on flats. I am doing my best to expand my confidence and skill on the bike and making strides. The twist here is that I am primarily a roadie and have been clipped in forever. So I am wondering if it might make sense for me to switch to SPD on the MTB to eliminate a technique variable (foot placement, maintaining good contact, etc). For the record, I am riding DMR Vaults with PI flats (I like them). What do you guys think?


I ride both... When riding flats, I'll rotate my feet in a way that I can pull up on the pedal on the upward stroke. I like riding both because it simply can make a person a better rider. If you're riding, you're doing something right in the first place


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Bikeworks said:


> What do you guys think?


Nah. Stay on flats.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Those who can’t assume everyone else can’t.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Flats


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## Loll (May 2, 2006)

Both.

Dh/jumps/ flat trails=flat
Climbing and interval days=clipless.

Get a Funn mamba pedal.


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## North woods gal (Apr 26, 2021)

abeckstead makes a good point. When I first converted over to flats from clipless for trail riding I had yet to learm how to keep my feet planted on the pedals and as a result my feet bounced off the pedals on some rough spots and I lost control and had a few spills as a result. 

I've now been on flats for ten years and much prefer them for my trail riding style, but it really is a personal preference. There are advantages either way. Just something you work out for yourself as you gain experience.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

Run whatever you are most comfortable with, and enjoy riding the most. I have been riding SPD pedals for 22 years. I can, and do, ride flats from time to time, but I simply don't enjoy it as much. I hate my feet ending up in different positions on the pedal, and there are certain types of jumps where I can't escape the feeling of floating away from the bike, even when my feet are firmly on the pedals.

There is no reason that you should not ride SPDs as a beginner, though there are great skills you can learn riding flats. That said, if you can pull up on the feet to get the bike in the air, and you will always be riding clipless, does being able to lift the bike with flats actually make you a better rider? Do you need to learn a skill that doesn't directly translate to the way you will be riding? That argument never made a lot of sense to me.

So long story short, ride what you are most comfortable with. If you want to be ambi-pedal more power to you, but just like there isn't a great reason for every single new rider to start on a hardtail, there is no reason that a new-to-MTB rider couldn't just ride clipless from the off.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

It depends on what you want out of mountain biking. If you plan on going clipless as your choice of pedal all the time, just go clipless imo. If you are just riding for fun, do which every you enjoy more. If want to ride both, I'd say stick with flats for a bit just to get used to them.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

I've been riding clipless on a MTB pretty much as long as there has been clipless MTB pedals (first gen SPDs). I also spend a lot of time on my road bikes, and the feeling of not being connected to the bike is uncomfortable for me, no matter the bike or terrain. Sure, there is a learning curve to get to the point of unclipping being unconscious and immediate, and you might have a couple of tumbles. IMO, it's totally worth it.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Im assuming because you are a roadie you will be more into pedalling than riding crazy ass chunk, go spd.

Flats are better in the tech, spd for pedalling.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Another vote for flats. But like everyone else said, personal preference so you do you.

Good technique on flats will make you a better rider, does this matter to you and what you like to ride? Clipless can mask poor technique, but again, does this matter to you and what you like to ride. The only places that clipped in makes sense to me is sprinting and some technical climbs


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## GoldenPromise (Dec 4, 2020)

I dig clipless more better


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

plummet said:


> Im assuming because you are a roadie you will be more into pedalling than riding crazy ass chunk, go spd.
> 
> Flats are better in the tech, spd for pedalling.


Clipless is way better for tech. Riding down som jank that requires shifting your weight around and not coming off the bike? Being attached to the pedals helps. Flats only help if you're planning on needing to come off the bike.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

McShred said:


> Clipless can mask poor technique...


Please explain.


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## WillDB (Jul 15, 2020)

I really love my SPDs, but as others have said this is personal preference. I use flats when bike packing and I know there is going to be a lot of hike-and-bike for comfort. Everything else, SPDs other

I have some nerve damage in my left foot from wearing SPD shoes that were too narrow for too long. It's basically permanent, so when selecting shoes, make sure they are wide enough for your feet as is and keep in mind your feet can and will swell when riding long distances.

Bont and Lake make really nice SPD shoes that are made for our anatomy _i.e., _"anatomical" toe boxes.

If you want to be a racer geek, wear Sidi's. If you hike and bike, you'll invariably, as Paul Simon put it, end up "slip slidin' away".


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

norcalbike said:


> *Flats only help if you're planning on needing to come off the bike.*


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Post above yours highlights this point perfectly. 


norcalbike said:


> Clipless is way better for tech. Riding down som jank that requires shifting your weight around and not coming off the bike? Being attached to the pedals helps. Flats only help if you're planning on needing to come off the bike.





Eric F said:


> Please explain.


Post above your highlights my point perfectly, with good technique your feet will never come off flat pedals while riding even the chunkiest of trails. With heavy feet, light hands, good bike body separation, etc. your feet will be glued to flat pedals regardless of terrain. Jumping and bunny hops are another, many people will pull up on their clipless rather than load the bike and pop.

To be very clear, I am not saying that people who ride clipless all have bad technique, but as a guy who spent 10-12 years on clipless before learning to properly ride flats I was guilty and see many others who are guilty of using clipless as a crutch (even if they dont know it)


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

The rockiness of your trails matters a great deal. The bigger the platform, in terms of width and thickness, the more likely you are to strike a rock. This is true of climbing and descending. There are clipless pedals with big platforms for which this is also true.

I ran spds for 12 years, then decided to try flats for three years. I did get faster on flats, particularly in the corners. I also found it much easier to preload the suspension for jumps with a big platform. But I got more rock strikes, and these become increasingly dangerous as you go faster. 

After a couple of brutal rock strike crashes, I've switched back to spds with a modest platform (XT trails), and now I'm faster up and down because I can pedal through rock tech without fear of eating ****. 

So, if you live in a rocky area, I would argue spds are safer. Probably matters less in buffer zones.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

McShred said:


> Post above yours highlights this point perfectly.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've raced DH on flats and clipless pedals, and switch back and forth today. I know technique. Clipless is still far better hitting jank at speed.


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## shwndh (Nov 20, 2004)

If you're already used to clipping in with SPDs, why not try them on your mountain bike? You can always go back or switch depending on the terrain. I use the same system on both my mountain bike and road bike. 

I've been riding clipped in so long I don't even know what it feels like to ride flats any more and I'm primarily a trail rider. Depends on what you're comfortable with.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

Another downside to flats is that shoes wear out more quickly, and this gets expensive.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

norcalbike said:


> I've raced DH on flats and clipless pedals, and switch back and forth today. I know technique. Clipless is still far better hitting jank at speed.


Agree to disagree I guess, hitting jank at speed on flats is 100% solid 100% of the time. Now sprinting through jank at speed, I can see the argument for clipless immediately.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

norcalbike said:


> Clipless is way better for tech. Riding down som jank that requires shifting your weight around and not coming off the bike? Being attached to the pedals helps. Flats only help if you're planning on needing to come off the bike.


Oh dear......

This is only relevant on tech that's not that tech..... ie you can easily ride it without dabbing. 

As soon as its technical enough to need the occasional dab flats are better.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Fast chunk and techie stuff is exactly where I prefer clipless. I mainly ride flats to keep things interesting and I think it keeps some skills honed. I ride flats more when I am riding alone and I am not trying to keep up with other people on gnarly and rough terrain. But for me, clipless is better for almost every MTB situation. The one exception is skinny's.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

plummet said:


> Oh dear......
> 
> This is only relevant on tech that's not that tech..... ie you can easily ride it without dabbing.
> 
> As soon as its technical enough to need the occasional dab flats are better.


I have no issues dabbing with clipless. For me it is, for all intents and purposes, as easy as with flats. 

Just becuase you are not good with them, don't assume nobody else is.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

plummet said:


> Oh dear......
> 
> This is only relevant on tech that's not that tech..... ie you can easily ride it without dabbing.
> 
> As soon as its technical enough to need the occasional dab flats are better.


So the super chunky blacks and double blacks I ride on a regular basis are not "real tech"... got it.


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## JSGN (Feb 27, 2019)

Eric F said:


> Please explain.


Most people who moves over from flats cant bunny hop for ****, they pull the bike with the pedals instead of the correct way which they will be able to do better with clipless later if they learned it properly on flats.

_Most_

Threadstarter, Run whatever you feel is the best for you. That is what matters the most. The pedals that gives you the most confidence to enjoy the bike ride the most.


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## DtEW (Jun 14, 2004)

Given where you’re coming from, it would simply make sense for you to ride clipped-in.

As you can see through this thread, there are arguments for both from users of either, with neither particularly more valid than the other. But given your particular experience and stated short-term goals, it’s a no-brainer _for your circumstance_.

You know what the Internet is like. Mostly people talk to rationalize their own choices through the voice of vehement concern for a total stranger.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

kapusta said:


> Fast chunk and techie stuff is exactly where I prefer clipless. *I mainly ride flats to keep things interesting and I think it keeps some skills honed.* I ride flats more when I am riding alone and I am not trying to keep up with other people on gnarly and rough terrain. But for me, clipless is better for almost every MTB situation. The one exception is skinny's.





kapusta said:


> I have no issues dabbing with clipless. For me it is, for all intents and purposes, as easy as with flats.
> 
> *Just becuase you are not good with them, don't assume nobody else is.*


I like these points. I agree that flats will teach better technique (or keep skills honed), and that said we all have our preference and shouldn't assume one option is better than another.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

norcalbike said:


> So the super chunky blacks and double blacks I ride on a regular basis are not "real tech"... got it.


Nor are world cup DH courses where most riders these days are clipped in.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

McShred said:


> Post above your highlights my point perfectly, with good technique your feet will never come off flat pedals while riding even the chunkiest of trails. With heavy feet, light hands, good bike body separation, etc. your feet will be glued to flat pedals regardless of terrain. Jumping and bunny hops are another, many people will pull up on their clipless rather than load the bike and pop.
> 
> To be very clear, I am not saying that people who ride clipless all have bad technique, but as a guy who spent 10-12 years on clipless before learning to properly ride flats I was guilty and see many others who are guilty of using clipless as a crutch (even if they dont know it)


Everything you described about flat pedals, it seems you could also do with clipless pedals. That isn't true the other way around. IMO, clipless offers more options - more tricks in the bag.

That said, I'm an old, ex-XC racer, and roadie. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about for high-speed DH racing and super-chunk.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

There is no right or wrong answer. From what I've read, we're split roughly 50:50. In the end it's a combination of personal preference, terrain, and riding style. I come from a roadie background, enjoy flowy trails and I'm too old to risk much of air time, so it's SPD all the way for me. We run the same XT's on all of our bikes, road, gravel, fatty, and FS MTB, but the fatty's get platforms in winter of course. If you set the springs loosely, there's absolutely no issue dabbing a foot and certainly no problem unclipping, whether to stop or crash. Clipping in also prevents banged up shins, so my chicken legs look nice.


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## Riled (May 1, 2012)

Definitely ride both. Since you're already used to being clipped-in, there's no reason not to have that as an option. 

I can ride both, but am more comfortable clipped in. The funny thing is I actually like clipless better for being able to easily take my foot off (and back on) the pedals. I find that with flats I'm always putting my foot back on at a less than ideal angle or position and it's a pain to try to re-adjust. With clipless, I've gotten so used to clipping out and back in, I can be quicker and smoother.

For me, flats are a disadvantage in every way except for rides where I need to do a lot of walking.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Dkayak said:


> Clipping in also prevents banged up shins, so my chicken legs look nice.


It's funny, last season I threw my XTR trail pedals back on my Ripley for a quick XC ride. took a nasty spill when my bar nabbed a small tree that I simply didn't see till last minute. The left pedal ended up slamming into the back of my leg, leaving a nasty, huge bruise. 

Part of me was like, "look at what the clipless pedal did to my leg"! 

But part of me was also thankful that it wasn't one of my OneUp flats that would have turned my leg into pulled pork.


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## xjbaylor (Sep 22, 2006)

norcalbike said:


> Clipless is way better for tech. Riding down som jank that requires shifting your weight around and not coming off the bike? Being attached to the pedals helps. Flats only help if you're planning on needing to come off the bike.


I can very much agree with this. About the only place I really prefer flats is elevated skinnies, and for rides that end at a restaurant or similar. Oh yeah, and doing tail whips. In my dreams (where I can tail whip) I am always on flats.


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## jalopyj (Oct 13, 2020)

I run both. Spend some time of the year on flats, which help me be more cognizant of foot and body weight position, then swap back over to clips as it helps me charge a bit harder through rougher terrain with confidence. I crash more clipped in though.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Riled said:


> Definitely ride both. Since you're already used to being clipped-in, there's no reason not to have that as an option.
> 
> I can ride both, but am more comfortable clipped in. The funny thing is I actually like clipless better for being able to easily take my foot off (and back on) the pedals. I find that with flats I'm always putting my foot back on at a less than ideal angle or position and it's a pain to try to re-adjust. With clipless, I've gotten so used to clipping out and back in, I can be quicker and smoother.
> 
> For me, flats are a disadvantage in every way except for rides where I need to do a lot of walking.


yup. Sticky rubber makes it hard to adjust if your foot is in the wrong position. I agree with what a lot of folks are saying on this thread re clipless being a crutch that can result in bad technique for manuals, bunnyhops, weighting the bike, etc. That's why I throw flats on for about 10% of my rides, to stay sharp. You will always have a few exceptions to the rule, but for every Nathan Rennie, or Sam Hill, there's hundreds of fast DH and enduro racers riding clipless. There are a handful of situations I'd prefer flats, mostly jumps, or riding skinny trails like Clown Shoes at Whistler. At the end of the day, if you're not racing, just ride what makes you happy.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Eric F said:


> Everything you described about flat pedals, it seems you could also do with clipless pedals. That isn't true the other way around. IMO, clipless offers more options - more tricks in the bag.
> 
> That said, I'm an old, ex-XC racer, and roadie. Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about for high-speed DH racing and super-chunk.


Honestly I think my point may have been lost. With flats your are forced into good (or good enough) technique otherwise your at significant risk of slipping a pedal. With clipless its easier to mask some of these issues because your locked in and cant slip a pedal. I would never say you cant learn good technique on clipless, many people do everyday.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

McShred said:


> Honestly I think my point may have been lost. With flats your are forced into good (or good enough) technique otherwise your at significant risk of slipping a pedal. With clipless its easier to mask some of these issues because your locked in and cant slip a pedal. I would never say you cant learn good technique on clipless, many people do everyday.


I got your point, and it's totally valid. I recently spent some time riding only a singlespeed in the dirt before my latest bike purchase. I learned a few things on the SS that I wasn't as acutely aware of before, and it made me a better rider on a bike with gears.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Eric F said:


> I also spend a lot of time on my road bikes, and the feeling of not being connected to the bike is uncomfortable for me, no matter the bike or terrain.


I think the background has a lot to do with. Personally I absolutely hate the feeling of being connected to the bike.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

93EXCivic said:


> I think the background has a lot to do with. Personally I absolutely hate the feeling of being connected to the bike.


Probably. With the exception of my childhood BMX bikes, I've always ridden bikes while mechanically attached to the pedals, going back to toeclips and straps.


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## Yootah (Jun 30, 2017)

Naw. I don't mind being "attached" or whatever and I'm pretty sure I climb better in clipless, but I just don't like needing Special Cycling Shoes. Gimme a good set of pinned flats and a nice light hiker and I'm good.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

Eric F said:


> I got your point, and it's totally valid. I recently spent some time riding only a singlespeed in the dirt before my latest bike purchase. I learned a few things on the SS that I wasn't as acutely aware of before, and it made me a better rider on a bike with gears.


Venturing off topic here, but speaking of learning things. Last year I tore my derailleur hanger early in the day at a bike park, spent the day riding chainless.. Very eye opening, a bit frustrating, but left that day learning lots.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Lots of good points here &, agree, they both have their pros and cons. However, if you're a long time clip rider from the road, I'd definitely give them a shot.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

kapusta said:


> Nor are world cup DH courses where most riders these days are clipped in.
> 
> 
> kapusta said:
> ...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Well that escalated quickly.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

kapusta said:


> Nor are world cup DH courses where most riders these days are clipped in.


My original statement was clips until you have to dab, if you can blaze that world cup dh track without dabbing the woohoo. Go clips all the way.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Jayem said:


> Well that escalated quickly.


It always will with the clips v flats debate. 

But it is amusing.


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## McShred (Oct 4, 2021)

plummet said:


> It always will with the clips v flats debate.
> 
> But it is amusing.


Serious business in here!


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

McShred said:


> Serious business in here!


Bloody serious! How dare you question my foot to pedal connection!


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

So far I've gathered OP should use pedals of some sort over whatever terrain in whatever conditions based on what everyone else does. I agree. He needs to do what I do for the same reasons I do it. All the time and without exception.

(OP, just try both. There's no way we're going to solve this for you. Sorry bout that.)


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I started on clipless and rode that way for 15 years. Switched to flats 2 years ago, and have never touched clipless since. Unless you're racing, there's really no reason to ride clipless now. Years ago it used to be that flat shoes and pedals sucked, but with current equipment flats dont give up much to clipless anymore.

As to hitting jank at speed, I agree clipless give you some added security against losing your footing. But if your flat pedal technique is good this really isn't a big isssue. I mean if Sam Hill can do it at mach stupid with flats, the rest of us can do it at mere mortal speeds.

I will say there's definitely a personal preference element. You can do the same things equally well (for the most part) with both, but some are more comfortable on one than the other.


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

Thanks for all the responses, seriously. I wanted to get a sense of what people thought when advising someone already familiar with clipping in, just in a different discipline, and that's what I got. Honestly, I'm ok with 'cheating' technique for bunny hopping and such as it will make my rides more enjoyable I feel. I also hate getting into the wrong position on flats and having trouble re-adjusting due to the stickiness of my flats, as a few have pointed out. I am definitely going to give the clipless thing a try. May want to try out the SPDs with a platform going forward, not too sure yet.

Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciated the perspectives.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

plummet said:


> My original statement was clips until you have to dab, if you can blaze that world cup dh track without dabbing the woohoo. Go clips all the way.


I've never had a dapping problem with springs set so loose they only hold when pulled absolutely vertically, which allows foot to swing out at will. I've clipped in so many thousands of times that they go back into place without a thought. Some of this comes down to muscle memory and what you've always ridden.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Bikeworks said:


> Thanks for all the responses, seriously. I wanted to get a sense of what people thought when advising someone already familiar with clipping in, just in a different discipline, and that's what I got. Honestly, I'm ok with 'cheating' technique for bunny hopping and such as it will make my rides more enjoyable I feel. I also hate getting into the wrong position on flats and having trouble re-adjusting due to the stickiness of my flats, as a few have pointed out. I am definitely going to give the clipless thing a try. May want to try out the SPDs with a platform going forward, not too sure yet.
> 
> Thanks again, everyone. I really appreciated the perspectives.


Long time SPD rider. Been using these 








HT Components T1 Enduro Pedals


HT T1 pedals are a top notch option for an aggressive all mountain and enduro pedal. A 16.8mm low profile and 68x83.5mm base platform allows for increased stability on rowdy terrain. The T1 features HTs unique proprietary clipless system with its adjustable dual tension settings, for a secure...




www.fanatikbike.com





For the last 3 seasons and are an improvement/evolution on SPD's in every way.


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## Drew H. (Oct 6, 2017)

noapathy said:


> So far I've gathered OP should use pedals of some sort over whatever terrain in whatever conditions based on what everyone else does. I agree. He needs to do what I do for the same reasons I do it. All the time and without exception.
> 
> (OP, just try both. There's no way we're going to solve this for you. Sorry bout that.)


Best way to decide which is better is to put a flat on one side and a clipless on the other to see which is better and then make up your mind.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

WHALENARD said:


> Long time SPD rider. Been using these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just switched to SPDs from HT because I got sick of the bearings needing to be replaced every 6 months.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

norcalbike said:


> I just switched to SPDs from HT because I got sick of the bearings needing to be replaced every 6 months.


I had a pair that the bushings wore out in about 3 months. The pair I'm on now are 2 years strong and still tight. I figured I'd just buy another pair, replace the bushings in the first, then cycle 2 pairs of pedals for no down time but thus far have not needed too. It's a vary valid point though, SPD's are nearly bombproof. For me the HT's perform so much better I can't go back.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Drew H. said:


> Best way to decide which is better is to put a flat on one side and a clipless on the other to see which is better and then make up your mind.


No. That's the absolute worst way. Seriously. I wish they could un-invent those horrible contraptions.


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## wolfmw (Dec 18, 2020)

I love these threads. Always boils down to the same argument from both sides:

Anyone who rides [flats/clipless] simply lacks the skills, trails, and/or balls required to properly ride [clipless/flats].

I agree lol


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have enough invested in clipless shoes and pedals that I don't want to deal with buying more shoes or pedals to go back to flats again. All of my mountain bikes, my road bike, and my coaster brake klunker have clipless on them, and I wear the same shoes on all of the bikes for road, lift assisted park, XC, and bikepacking.


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## Drew H. (Oct 6, 2017)

noapathy said:


> No. That's the absolute worst way. Seriously. I wish they could un-invent those horrible contraptions.


My apologies if the attempted humor wasn't effectively delivered.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Drew H. said:


> My apologies if the attempted humor wasn't effectively delivered.


I think he interpreted it as those pedals that are clips on one side and flat on the other which are in fact worthless. I gotcha though, kinda funny.


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## Drew H. (Oct 6, 2017)

WHALENARD said:


> I think he interpreted it as those pedals that are clips on one side and flat on the other which are in fact worthless. I gotcha though, kinda funny.


Ha! Jokes on me, I didn't know there was a "hybrid" for lack of a better term, pedal. I was thinking one on the right foot and the other on the left would be a comical way to review.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Both... if its DH/park, not very technical(rocks, drops) and lots of pedaling, Clipless ... if it is DH technical and not much pedaling or wet muddy weather, Flats... If trail riding/Enduro, Clipless... me, I run one or the other depending on the bike and conditions.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

shwinn8 said:


> Both... if its DH/park, not very technical(rocks, drops) and lots of pedaling, Clipless ... if it is DH technical and not much pedaling or wet muddy weather, Flats... If trail riding/Enduro, Clipless... me, I run one or the other depending on the bike and conditions.


Ditto, but I almost exclusively run clips anymore. Back when skinnies and uber-tech type stuff was more prevalent I reached for my flats more often.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

plummet said:


> Until you find the level that it's not as easy.
> 
> You haven't found it yet.....


WTF are you talking about? I try stuff all the time that I need to dab or bail. Its just not as big a deal for me as it apparently is for you. 

Has it occurred to you maybe you are just not good at clipless? You keep saying that you can’t do something that other people can do. I can functionally dab just as fast with clipless as with flats. I know this because I ride both.

Ride what you want, but don’t project inadequacies or fears on other people.


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## Drew H. (Oct 6, 2017)

I'll take a shot at the whole flats v clipless debate.

So, when it comes to mountain biking, flats are like wearing crocs and clipless is like when you have to flip up the back strap on your crocs.

Am I understanding this correctly?


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Drew H. said:


> I'll take a shot at the whole flats v clipless debate.
> 
> So, when it comes to mountain biking, flats are like wearing crocs and clipless is like when you have to flip up the back strap on your crocs.
> 
> Am I understanding this correctly?


Not even close.

_Everyone_ knows Crocs are inexcusable.

This is more a 50/50 issue.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

plummet said:


> My original statement was clips until you have to dab, if you can blaze that world cup dh track without dabbing the woohoo. Go clips all the way.


You think riders have never dabbed or otherwise needed to eject off their pedals on a WC course?


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Drew H. said:


> My apologies if the attempted humor wasn't effectively delivered.


I thought you meant a different one on each foot.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

wolfmw said:


> I love these threads. Always boils down to the same argument from both sides:
> 
> Anyone who rides [flats/clipless] simply lacks the skills, trails, and/or balls required to properly ride [clipless/flats].
> 
> I agree lol


That’s pretty much it.

If I can’t [whatever] on [flats / clipless] then it can’t be done. And it you can [whatever] on [flats / clipless] that’s only because you don’t ride as hard as I do.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

kapusta said:


> You think riders have never dabbed or otherwise needed to eject off their pedals on a WC course?


You could run the tension on some pedals like those HT’s so high that it’s pretty damn hard to get out though. BMX racers and some downhillers regularly do that. 

I get what some folks are saying about flats though, for freeride stuff, riding weird shoots and drops that are borderline hiking. Not my thing personally. 

If you’re sending Remy lines, kudos.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

.


norcalbike said:


> If you’re sending Remy lines, kudos.


Who, me? 

not….


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

norcalbike said:


> You could run the tension on some pedals like those HT’s so high that it’s pretty damn hard to get out though. BMX racers and some downhillers regularly do that.
> 
> I get what some folks are saying about flats though, for freeride stuff, riding weird shoots and drops that are borderline hiking. Not my thing personally.
> 
> If you’re sending Remy lines, kudos.


Mount Snow's Yard Sale in the wet is why I ride flats. Like I said, for me it depends on the conditions. On the DH bikes, when I run the SPD's the tension is fairly high. Like Yard Sale and other Rock Gardens i don't want to be attached to the bike if I need to bail so I'm on flats. I've also been dragged down too. Places like Angel Fire that are groomed more for flow I run clipless.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Drew H. said:


> Ha! Jokes on me, I didn't know there was a "hybrid" for lack of a better term, pedal. I was thinking one on the right foot and the other on the left would be a comical way to review.


That would be preferable. They make clipless Crocs. I don't know what to think about the proper way to burn them.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

kapusta said:


> WTF are you talking about? I try stuff all the time that I need to dab or bail. Its just not as big a deal for me as it apparently is for you.
> 
> Has it occurred to you maybe you are just not good at clipless? You keep saying that you can’t do something that other people can do. I can functionally dab just as fast with clipless as with flats. I know this because I ride both.
> 
> Ride what you want, but don’t project inadequacies or fears on other people.


These guys need your superior expertise in being able to clip in at a moments notice. Perhaps you could hold some workshops for them.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Delete.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

plummet said:


> These guys need your superior expertise in being able to clip in at a moments notice. Perhaps you could hold some workshops for them.


thank you for posting a video demonstrating my point that some people have zero problems ejecting from clipless.

I’m sure they had no problems getting clipped back in once they were reunited with their bikes. No help from me needed.

Is there some other point you were trying to make?


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## tomboyjr (Jul 16, 2009)

I rode clipless for probably 20 yrs. Switched to flats about 10 yrs ago when I was riding (or trying to ride) skinnies that were getting higher and higher. I'd say it took a year before I was comfortable on flats, especially on steep technical climbs. Moved to TN from CT 3 years ago and though its a lot less technical I stayed on flats for a while. Switched back to clipless for 6 months to see if there any difference, figuring it would help on the longer climbs here. Well, I just didnt like it. I might have been a 'hair' faster uphill, but on the few technical spots I was always thinking about getting out of the pedals fast enough if I had to. Plus, clipless shoes are not as comfortable for walking. So back to flats it was. Maybe for racing clipless is better, but for me I think I get thru techy sections faster on flats just because I'm more confident on them.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

kapusta said:


> thank you for posting a video demonstrating my point that some people have zero problems ejecting from clipless.
> 
> I’m sure they had no problems getting clipped back in once they were reunited with their bikes. No help from me needed.
> 
> Is there some other point you were trying to make?


Yes, You missed the point. It's not the ejecting it's the getting back in that's the issue. However, some of those crashes were because of clips. Particularly when you are committed hard and there is a need for an immediate dab, there is a split-second delay getting out of them. That can lead to a crash. Also getting back into clips in some steep slippery chunk without slowing down is also can be very difficult. You just need to watch a few wet WorldCup DH tech sections to see this. The dude that has to unclip to dab in the slippery tech has trouble getting back in. 

For the record, I have run clipless for 20+ years raced XC and DH with them, and ridden everything in between. I have also ridden flats for as long. So I have both skill sets. Right now I'm riding flats because I'm done with racing and most of my riding is steep tech where flats are more enjoyable. I also don't care about my pedal speed back up the top of the hill. If I change my riding back to more bike park and pedaling with less silly tech I would spd up again. 

As with any piece of kit, there are pro's and con's. Clipless pedals are no different. There are places where clipless are not as good and places where they are better.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Drew H. said:


> My apologies if the attempted humor wasn't effectively delivered.


I learned a long time ago to put in a  or people will think you are serious.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

OP just needs to try clipless and see which works best for him. I rode clipless for over a decade then switched to flats 6 or 7 years ago. I still use mtb spd clippless on my road bikes, which I had done so from the beginning so I could wear any of my shoes. I just bought a pair of clipless mtb shoes last week as they are what I like on my CX/gravel bike.


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## Prognosticator (Feb 15, 2021)

WHALENARD said:


> Long time SPD rider. Been using these
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What makes them better than SPDs? I am pedal-curious.


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## OldManBiker (Nov 5, 2016)

chazpat said:


> I learned a long time ago to put in a  or people will think you are serious.


Chaz, how you been my old friend! Long time, no see! Last I heard you now own Blankets! lol I was in Alabama all last year killing myself on Monte Sano (almost literally) and moved back beginning of year. Let's ride soon. Im not as slow as I used to be. I've gone from the 6.0mph up to at LEAST 6.1mph. 😂

Speaking of clipless vs flats AND Monte Sano this is where I was surprised to learn of my comfortability trying to ride flats again after a 2-3 year change using clipless. Monte Sano for those not familiar with this trail in Huntsville is perhaps the rockiest and one of the hardest trails I've ever ridden. By FAR. Rocks & boulders not only on each side of the trails but, right down the middle! After attempting to ride this trail with my clipless and suffering mightily I decided I'd try the same trail again. But this time with flats! I was determined to conquer this trail and knew riding my trusty old flats that I would be the victor at the end! NOT SO FAST. As I rode and felt the need to dab here or there I would almost every time almost crash or not find myself able to maneuver as I do on clipless. It was almost like I was having to learn all over again how to mountain bike! Talk about frustrated. 

In short, for me using flats as I was just learning how to mountain bike went hand in hand. It allowed me to learn so many things comfortably while knowing and being able to get my feet to the ground as quickly as possible safely. Who knows? I may have given up altogether if I had started out clipless and had some bad crashes thinking this was the reality of mountain biking. After about 3yrs of riding and wanting to challenge myself personally and improve my ride I switched to clipless. By then, I was comfortable on a bike and had my confidence level was ready for what I was about to learn and experience. 

My 2 cents FWIW.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Prognosticator said:


> What makes them better than SPDs? I am pedal-curious.


Zero accidental releases, ever, not once
Much more precise retention mechanism
No skating around, even with same float
Actual shoe/platform contact
Slightly thinner profile
Can dial in way more tension if you like


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Prognosticator said:


> What makes them better than SPDs? I am pedal-curious.


I don't think there is. I have the XTR 9100 and the HT T1. They both feel pretty similar when it comes to engagement. Both have a fairly positive click when getting into them. The HT does feel a bit tight when clipping out...I'm sure that's because they aren't broken in yet.

I've run several brands of clipless pedals and in reality...there really isn't a huge difference to them. People like certain features of a particular brand. I've used Crank Brothers, Look, Shimano, and now HT. Honestly...I can use any of those pedals without any issues. Once I'm clipped in...they all feel the same.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

shwinn8 said:


> Both... if its DH/park, not very technical(rocks, drops) and lots of pedaling, Clipless ... if it is DH technical and not much pedaling or wet muddy weather, Flats... If trail riding/Enduro, Clipless... me, I run one or the other depending on the bike and conditions.


I tried switching back and forth and it just didn't work. Sometimes I would think I'm using one...but I'm using the other. I've found myself trying to rotate my heel out...so I can clip out of my flat pedals. I just stick with my clipless pedals...even at the bike parks.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

kapusta said:


> thank you for posting a video demonstrating my point that some people have zero problems ejecting from clipless.
> 
> I’m sure they had no problems getting clipped back in once they were reunited with their bikes. No help from me needed.
> 
> Is there some other point you were trying to make?


Hold on bro just let me dab real quick.


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## Gumby_rider (Apr 18, 2017)

Here is another (prob useless) data point based on personal observation: good riders can ride both types so it’s not about equipment (it never was).


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Gumby_rider said:


> Here is another (prob useless) data point based on personal observation: good riders can ride both types so it’s not about equipment (it never was).


👍


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

plummet said:


> As with any piece of kit, there are pro's and con's. Clipless pedals are no different. There are places where clipless are not as good and places where they are better.


Yep, terrain is a big factor, horses for courses as they say. Another is personal riding style, how aggressively you ride, skinny’s, how easily you want to climb, etc. A third factor is simply what you’re used to and the resulting personal preference. There’s no best/worse or right/wrong, so naturally we’re divided 50/50.


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## Muddy-Runs (Sep 14, 2018)

There are plus and minus with both of them, but in the end its all about personal preference, riding style and place/terrain.

After trying both, i prefer clip pedals coz the lags not bouncing around... and never had a problem to clipped in or out when needed.


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