# Big favour



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Hi
As you might already know, I want to buy a used bike from the US. I was originally planning on my cousin to bring it (he lived in Georgia), but I recently found out he is coming back to Mexico for good (he did not like it very much there, besides there was some racism). Tacubaya was kind and told me he could bring it, but he does not know excactly when he is going over there. I told him it was ok, that meanwhile I would look around for a bike in pinkbike, classfields, etc. However, yesterday I found a very nice Spec. P.2 in Pinkbike. http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/166177/ . I liked it very much, and I already have that much money. The other P.2s that I found were either large size, older versions or more expensive (the one I was thinking of buying costs $600 and its a '04 model). I think that this one is going to be sold before Tacubaya manages to go to the US (around 3 weeks), so I would like to buy it as soon as possible. I was wondering if any of you guys could bring it. I know its a very big favour and its not easy. I would completely understand if you say you cant. Please, if someone is able to do it tell me.
Thanks


----------



## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> I was wondering if any of you guys could bring it. I know its a very big favour and its not easy. I would completely understand if you say you cant. Please, if someone is able to do it tell me.
> Thanks


I'd love to help, but won't be going to US until June.


----------



## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

Hi 545.... I'm not going for a while  I would gladly bring it if possible. Where is Tacubaya going? If he's going to Dallas, maybe a friend can receive it at his house, but I'm not sure.

Also, do you know how much it would be for shipping the whole bike to Mexico? I think it would be high, but it's worth looking for.


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I'm going to San Antonio but I'm not sure when, maybe in 2 weeks or something... I dunno.


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

DAMN, its already been sold!   
Well, I guess Im back to looking around for one, I would still thank you a lot if anyone can do me the favour.
Oh, and do you know how large a "large"size Spec. P frame is? Because there are lots of them.
EDIT: Do you guys think this one is a good deal??? http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/165209/ That head angle looks steep to me..


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I heard my parents talking about a 3 day trip this morning, with some pressure I can make them do the trip in a week or 2


----------



## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> DAMN, its already been sold!
> Well, I guess Im back to looking around for one, I would still thank you a lot if anyone can do me the favour.
> Oh, and do you know how large a "large"size Spec. P frame is? Because there are lots of them.
> EDIT: Do you guys think this one is a good deal??? http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/165209/ That head angle looks steep to me..


That P.2 looks pretty cool. For what you like to do, the head angle looks right 

The price is very good.

Another option, is buying a SC Chameleon or a Jackal (6,000 pesos for the Chameleon frame, in Mexico city, and I'm pretty sure the Jackal will be very similar), trasfering stuff from your Giant and later on buy a better fork.

You might not have all the goodies in components, but it's a new frame, and you can upgrade it later. If you buy the bike in the states, you would need to pay the seller besides the bike, shipping, and have a shipping address. What fork do you have in your bike?


----------



## FxFvD (Jan 26, 2006)

rzozaya1969 said:


> That P.2 looks pretty cool. For what you like to do, the head angle looks right
> 
> The price is very good.
> 
> ...


sounds like a good plan


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

rzozaya1969 said:


> That P.2 looks pretty cool. For what you like to do, the head angle looks right
> 
> The price is very good.
> 
> ...


Yeah I thought about that, but I still want to do XC/AM, which would be pretty difficult on a FR/DJ bike. Besides, I can loan my spare bike to a friend or someone who wants to ride.


----------



## rzozaya1969 (Nov 28, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> Yeah I thought about that, but I still want to do XC/AM, which would be pretty difficult on a FR/DJ bike. Besides, I can loan my spare bike to a friend or someone who wants to ride.


Ok, somehow I think the chameleon fills your bill.. but I think it's good to have 2 bikes...jajaja just some thoughts.....


----------



## FxFvD (Jan 26, 2006)

yeah i could get used to it although 
Hypoallergenic
tissue affect my emotions


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

What tha hell are you talking about Fx? Don't you have anything better to do?


----------



## FxFvD (Jan 26, 2006)

HAHAHAHAHA


actually have french homeowrk


----------



## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

*cough* please ban * cough*


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

rzozaya1969 said:


> Ok, somehow I think the chameleon fills your bill.. but I think it's good to have 2 bikes...jajaja just some thoughts.....


Yup, Chamaleon is a good choice for XC/AM, and u can even throw some DJ on it (not the best one, but you could). If this is gonna be your only bike, i would stay away from the Jackal, is too much of a DJ oriented bike.


----------



## tigerdog (Mar 16, 2004)

Chameleon would be an excellent do-it-all frame.


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

What about a Giant STP?? Should be cheaper than a Spech and a Santa Cruz for sure... and it's a very good bike.


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Warp2003 said:


> What about a Giant STP?? Should be cheaper than a Spech and a Santa Cruz for sure... and it's a very good bike.


Yeah I thought about them, but I dont know if they are good for freeride or only for dj/street. Up to how much travel forks do they take??
Oh and another thing ive been wondering: how do you know the max travel fork by seeing the geometry?? I know its something to do with the axle to crown height of the fork, but I dont understand it very well.


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> Yeah I thought about them, but I dont know if they are good for freeride or only for dj/street. Up to how much travel forks do they take??
> Oh and another thing ive been wondering: how do you know the max travel fork by seeing the geometry?? I know its something to do with the axle to crown height of the fork, but I dont understand it very well.


I am not a mechanical engineer, but I think it has more to do with the strength of the Head tube, top tube, down tube union. The more travel translates into a slacker head tube angle (for a particular frame), which also translate in more vertical forces stressing that point. The longer travel also means more leverage applied to the head tube.

In terms of axel to fork, this would be the number that matters, coz it represents the real length that affect both head angle and leverage. Geometry has little to do with it, it is more a construction and design matter. Well, this is what I understand.

Dunno if manufacturers actually tell you what is the maximum axel to crown height allowable.


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

545cu4ch said:


> Oh and another thing ive been wondering: how do you know the max travel fork by seeing the geometry?? I know its something to do with the axle to crown height of the fork, but I dont understand it very well.


Personal preference and intended use.

I don't remember quite well (anybody please correct me if I'm wrong), but for each inch of travel of fork, you're slackening the seat tube angle by one degree. As the distance between the axle of the front wheel and the bottom of the headtube increases, the angles of seat tube and head tube slacken and the wheelbase increases.

If you have a bike with a seat tube angle of 72° and head angle of 70° and a fork of (4") 100mm (around 480mm axle to crown), and you want to put a 125mm (5") fork, the seat tube will end around 71° or 70.5°... any angle below 71.5 degrees sucks for pedaling uphill.

You can correct a little bit by using a zero offset seat post... but then you affect the top tube lenght and end up with a bike where you feel cramped and depending on your stem, may be wheelie happy uphill.... at least it will wander around.

The mechanical resistance is another ticket. A longer fork will have a higher leverage on the headtube (both sideways and fore-aft) and may rip your headtube off. Also, a slack head tube will make a long travel fork to "bind" a little, especially on hard landings or rear wheel first ones (think a drop)... which puts more stress back on the frame and may ovalize it or simply rip it off... it's not a matter of "go-no go", it's a matter for "how long will it go??"

Mechanical Engineer here... all those numbers were worth of something after all.


----------



## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ritopc said:


> I am not a mechanical engineer, but I think it has more to do with the strength of the Head tube, top tube, down tube union. The more travel translates into a slacker head tube angle (for a particular frame), which also translate in more vertical forces stressing that point. The longer travel also means more leverage applied to the head tube.
> 
> In terms of axel to fork, this would be the number that matters, coz it represents the real length that affect both head angle and leverage. Geometry has little to do with it, it is more a construction and design matter. Well, this is what I understand.
> 
> Dunno if manufacturers actually tell you what is the maximum axel to crown height allowable.


Nicely put. Congrats...

Some manufacturers state it, some others don't. For example, the 5 Spot can't be used with a Fox 36 and the Titus Motolite can't use forks with more than 145mm. The now defunct Quasi-Moto could handle forks from 4" to 7".

As you said, it depends on how the headtube is built... but geometry wise, there are limits you don't want to trepass. A very short fork is not good either... your weight will end up too far forwards and your pedals will smack with low rocks. A very long one affects pedaling uphill and may kill your frame.


----------



## ritopc (Jul 3, 2004)

Warp2003 said:


> Nicely put. Congrats...
> 
> Some manufacturers state it, some others don't. For example, the 5 Spot can't be used with a Fox 36 and the Titus Motolite can't use forks with more than 145mm. The now defunct Quasi-Moto could handle forks from 4" to 7".
> 
> As you said, it depends on how the headtube is built... but geometry wise, there are limits you don't want to trepass. A very short fork is not good either... your weight will end up too far forwards and your pedals will smack with low rocks. A very long one affects pedaling uphill and may kill your frame.


Well Sascuach, there you go geometry and construction wise.

Just to add a little more, you can play with the geometry, within its strength limits, by adding or subtracting a little axel to crown distance. Slacker angles translate into stability at high speed, and shorter's distance translate into a more nimble handling. The latter being the best for climbing and the former for descending. However you can compensate either by playing with the handlebar width and length of the stem, but again this will mean playing, or even messing a well thought geometry.

As Warp pointed before, it becomes a matter of personal preference if you are within the frame limits.


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

Thanks a lot for the explanations. Now I understand


----------



## FxFvD (Jan 26, 2006)

i didnt understand a shiat 

hahahahaha










just kiding


----------



## FxFvD (Jan 26, 2006)

yeah 101 post like the 101 dalmatas my objective is to get to 666 and leave it liek that


----------



## 545cu4ch (Aug 11, 2005)

545cu4ch said:


> Hi
> I was wondering if any of you guys could bring it. I know its a very big favour and its not easy. I would completely understand if you say you cant. Please, if someone is able to do it tell me.
> Thanks


Anyone?
Pleeease, I need help to calm my UGI downnn...


----------

