# I DESTROY BOTTOM BRACKETS - help please



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

When I retired my old school Standard (american BB) for something newer (FBM) the FBM came with an euro BB shell...ok, this is a first for me, well, about 3 months later I had bearings grinded up in small chunks falling out of my frame when I took it apart - it was a real f*ckin mess. Fast forward a couple years, I buy a stock Blk Mrkt Three57 and it to has an euro BB shell, fast forward again about 3-4 months (since I bought it) and yet again I have a mangled bearings, the crank is quite rough and making all sorts of grinding noises when you spin the crank arm, so I figure is just a matter of time before the thing finally explodes on me.

So...my question is, is there a bottom bracket made thats actually going to hold up to my abuse or am I doomed to replacing the piece of sh*t every 3-4 months.

If so, Blk Mrkt needs or IMO consider switching over and or offering there frames with american bottom brackets since those seem to be the only ones I dont destroy.

So again, does anyone make a bomb proof euro BB?

Thanks, J. :madmax:


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Something I forgot to mention...these are the cranks/BB I'm using, I have no idea what "brand" it is.

CrMo 3PC, 48 Splined, Sealed Euro BB

http://www.blackmarketbikes.com/pdf/BLKMRKT_SPECS.pdf


----------



## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

i wanna say my boy has an S&M euro bb that's been holding up to I think almost a year. Before then he had Eastern bb's and they'd only last for maybe months. I hate euro, that keeps me from buying certain frames. Spanish and mid is where's it's at.


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Sounds to me like you're not getting them properly installed and adjusted. Othewise there's really no reason you would go through them that quickly.


----------



## ServeEm (Jun 15, 2005)

I'm not seeing how one can inproperly install a euro bb? Clean the threads in the bb shell of the frame, grease em and thread em in. For bmx at least I think euro bearings are too small, seeing what my boy went through with his I just stay away from euro bb frames.


----------



## xDetroitMetalx (Mar 19, 2009)

If the BB isn't adjusted properly, even with slight give, it will destroy the bearings. I try to check all that stuff before I ride.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I dont know...it seems to me to be a pritty poor design with the bearings being so small...and yes, installation is pritty simple, I'm a mechanic of 34 years so I'm fairly sure I'm installing them correctly, I also own all the proper tools...however, after I got the bike the crank started creeking (noise) in the BB area, turned out to be a loose sprocket, but to be on the safe side I dissasembled everything and re-greased it all. After I reassembled everything the crank/BB was really tight and wouldnt spin freely, so I rode it that way knowing eventually it would loosin up. While it almost spins freely now, its falling apart. 

I'm going to contact Carter (Owner of Blk Mrkt) and ask him if he can hook me up and or tell me exactly what I need to get. I'm also going to look into the S&M BB.

Thanks, J.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

you didnt reinstall correctly if they wouldnt spin, the reason they loosened up is cuz they were being destroyed


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I dont see how I installed it incorrectly...I installed it exactly the way it came apart...EXACTLY!!! And with the correct BB tools that were purchased from a LBS. Anyway...doesnt really matter now, the BB is junk and I will just have to replace it and hope for the best...thanks.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Well, if it wasn't tight before, and then it was after you took it apart... that implies that something you did caused this. Likely excessive bearing preload... But it could be other things... You could have cross threaded in a cup. Or the spindle could be bent.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

I would bet a very slight bent spindle if thats the case because the spindle did'nt slide back in smoothly without a little hammering from a rubber mallet.

I am not familar with "excessive bearing preload" or what that entails or means, lastly, everything went back together very smoothly except for the spindle as I mentioned above.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

rubber mallet on a spindle shouldnt bend it, prob over torqued the cup (preload)


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Or put the wrong tube spacer back in. Or cranked the arms on too tight.

You're a mechanic of 34 years and you don't know what bearing preload is?


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

clewttu: Its bent from jumping.

XSL_WiLL: Theres alot I dont know...long story short, I'm an OG BMX'er, I dont know, how to build a wheel (to lazy), I dont know much about disc brakes, mid/span BB's, rebuilding shocks, those cassette/driver bmx hubs, euro BB's...etc.

My 20' BMX (retired) has 3/8 axels and american BB...and that is what I'm more familar with, mountain bikes I'm not quite as good with but on a whole there usually easy to fix.


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

According to his profile that would make him a mechanic since 5 years of age!


XSL_WiLL said:


> Or put the wrong tube spacer back in. Or cranked the arms on too tight.
> 
> You're a mechanic of 34 years and you don't know what bearing preload is?


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Just about anything that uses a bearing also requires that the bearing be preloaded.

Binding is always bad. A mechanic should know that.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Just about anything that uses a bearing also requires that the bearing be preloaded.
> 
> Binding is always bad. A mechanic should know that.


Your correct, however, no-one has botherd to explain to me what exactly "pre-loading" is in reference to euro BB's, the only time I've heard the term "pre-loading" is reference to suspension (which use no bearings that I'm aware of).

Also, not everyone knows everything, I've met bike mechs w/ 20 years experience who didnt know what old school seat guts are (of course I was surprised, much like your surprised I know nothing about pre-loading)...because they began repairing bikes after mountain bikes came out and were only familar with new school MA (micro-adjust) seat post. We all can learn something, no matter how much we know or think we know. :thumbsup:


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

sittingduck said:


> According to his profile that would make him a mechanic since 5 years of age!


That too is correct, got my first bike on my 5th b-day, soon after (my first flat tire) dad was teaching me how to change tubes, and I went from there, been a bike mechanic ever since.


----------



## xDetroitMetalx (Mar 19, 2009)

Maybe you put the wrong size bearing spacer in or you didn't put one in at all?


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Bikes new or old school still use bearings. And they've required the bearings to be adjusted and preloaded. Hubs, bottom brackets, headsets, pedals, etc. Preloading is the methodology by which we remove the internal clearance in the bearing by applying a permanent thrust load to it. In other terms we can say that we push the bearing to such an extent that it has to move only in the groove (raceway) and cannot move axially in either direction. Excessive preloading of the bearings can cause increased heat generation in the bearings, which tends to reduce the speed capability and fatigue bearing life. Excessive preloading also causes the bearing to get loaded extremely, causing changes in the power requirement required to drive the system. A very high amount of torque is necessarily required to overcome this tightness in the bearing and thus increasing the energy or power demand for driving the system. 

Changing a flat tire does not make you a mechanic. 

Common sense should have dictated that the binding/grinding/creaking/whatever is bad. 

I'm not trying to be an ass. But I don't think the fault is with the BB.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Its obsurd to insinuate I've learned no more than the basic changing a tire in since 5 years old. I also understand you say your not trying to be an ass, and thats cool, and what I do KNOW how to do, which is about 95% of all repairs successfully (hubs [sealed/unsealed], pedals, headsets, old sckool/new school...etc) on my own isnt really the issue here, I am only asking for alturnatives to my current BB which is slowly dying a painful death, and I'm satisfied with the help I've recieved.

Thanks, J.


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

You insult real mechanics by insinuating that chainging a tire, and putting parts on your own bike makes you a mechanic. If you would have said: "I've been doing my own mechanic work on my bikes since I was 5" no one would have said anything more about it.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I don't see how you can service any sort of bearing correctly if you messed up the bottom bracket. They all work on the same principle.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

sittingduck said:


> You insult real mechanics by insinuating that chainging a tire, and putting parts on your own bike makes you a mechanic. If you would have said: "I've been doing my own mechanic work on my bikes since I was 5" no one would have said anything more about it.


Are you trolling? :nono:

Define "real mechanics"? You mean working for a shop, if thats how or what you define a "real" mechanic by...been there done that. :thumbsup:


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

XSL_WiLL said:



> I don't see how you can service any sort of bearing correctly if you messed up the bottom bracket. They all work on the same principle.


I've removed and reinstalled my fare share of standard shimano euro mountain bike BB's...never had a problem, ever...I only seem to have problem when that same or similar euro BB is used with a BMX crank. :incazzato:


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

jeffgothro said:


> Are you trolling? :nono:
> 
> Define "real mechanics"? You mean working for a shop, if thats how or what you define a "real" mechanic by...been there done that. :thumbsup:


I would define a "real mechanic" as someone that has had training and apprenticed for a good period of time. "Working for a shop" doesn't necessarily qualify either. There are a whole lot of "mechanics" (bike) that "work for a shop" that I wouldn't want within 10 feet of any of my bikes with a wrench.


----------



## xDetroitMetalx (Mar 19, 2009)

I have always loved to take things apart and put them back together since I remember. I am a hands on type of guy and get joy from creating and building. My father is a fantastic metal worker and professional welder and he owns his own machine shop so I suppose it's just in my blood. I've worked many hours in my fathers machine shop and learned a lot with the time that I spent there. 

My father and I are car lovers. I helped him restore and rebuild an 66' Mustang. My first car was a Ford Ranger and with a first car comes the first wreck. To restore the Ranger I did all the body work myself one summer I had in High School and had to replace the transmission. My second car was an 84' Corvette which I purchased after High School. I did my share of work on the Vette when something broke or wore out (Fuel pump, bearings and transmission). The vehicle I currently own is a 97' Trans Am which I have also done my own work on and slightly modded (New intake systems, headers, exhaust, transmission, fuel pump, rear end, spark plugs, window motors etc etc).

On top of cars I have always loved bicycling. I started out BMX Racing in the NBL and made quite a BMX collection from racing to freestyle and dirt jump bikes. The first bike I built was my Bully Hotrod dirt jumper and it was my pride and joy. I later sold it to a neighbor and within a year I saw it in their trash bin ready to be thrown away. I now currently work at a bicycle shop which is probably the best job I could have in college this day and age. I was originally hired in as a sales associate but I have slowly became one of the mechanics and evolved into the "All around" worker. All summer I built up my 26" DJ and spent a lot of my summer time and monies into it. I also just finished an old Chicago Schwinn X-Tra Lite as my commuting fix geared bike. 

All this being said do I consider myself a mechanic? Hell no. I don't really know much about anything. To my father I'm an infant if I was to be compared with him. Am I a mechanic to some other bicyclists out there? Yes. I can say I probably know more about bicycles than a lot of other people out there. Even with all the intelligent people that post on mtbr I wouldn't consider much of them a mechanic nor would I trust them handling my bicycle. The only reason why is because I know my bike and how I want my bike to ride more than anyone. 

When I'm handed a bicycle to be adjusted I pretend that everything is potentially wrong with it and if I don't check it that I can expect the owner to ride away and severely injure himself/herself. When I'm handed a bike it's my obligation to make sure everything is secure and adjusted correctly. If not I make that customer aware of the issues. If they want it to be fixed than great! If not, I make them sign the damn slip.

Anyway, my point is that Jeff may be a mechanic to some but not to others. Will may be a damn good mechanic (I've never met the guy and I'm sure he is) but there is someone out there who probably thinks he's an infant when compared to them. The same exact thing goes for me. No matter who you talk to and think you know how much they know there is always something to learn from everyone.

Holy sh!t why and what did I type?


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Holy sh!t why and what did I read?


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

I feel you Detroit. I'm the same way, started taking bikes apart at a young age, and have always worked on my own cars, etc. But I wouldn't call myself a mechanic, just someone that can tinker and fix stuff.
I took a year's worth of auto shop in college too, but in my opinion, I'm still not a real mechanic.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

I'm the same. I've been playing with bikes since I was in elementary school. I started working on cars in junior high. I took auto and advanced auto in high school. Worked at a garage briefly. I've been working at bike shops since I was 15. I'm not a mechanic. But I know my way around a car and bike. I've done all the work on the family cars.


----------



## Heavyhitter04 (Jan 23, 2009)

In its simplest form euro bearings are small bearings pressed into thread cups, so you have 2 bearing/cups that thread into the frame, between these bearings/cups is a steel or aluminum spacer. The width of this spacer changes from frame to frame and with bottom bracket bearing type. If this spacer is too narrow there is a void or space between the spacer and the bearings. When you install the spindle and tighten down the crank arms in the correct fashion with the wrong spacer width there will be too much pre-load or side load on the bearings which will prematurely wear them out. 

The simplest way to check that the spacer is the right width is to disassemble the cranks and take the spindle out, with good bearings installed the spacer should be wedged between the bearings/cups with no free play, if the space moves around with any kind of loose play it is too narrow. Another way which is more of a lazy way to check if the correct with spacer is installed is to take the chain off the bike and see if the cranks spin freely. They should spin very freely with "good" bearings installed and the crank arms tightened to the correct Nm torque. There are more ways to check for correct spacer width these are the two I use more often.

I understand that your Black Market bike came with these 3 piece cranks you are using now but even factory bikes come with incorrect spacers in the bottom bracket as they are mass produced and some bicycle companies pay less attention to quality control then others, no disrespect intended.

I would start here. Best of luck.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

sittingduck said:


> I would define a "real mechanic" as someone that has had training and apprenticed for a good period of time. "Working for a shop" doesn't necessarily qualify either. There are a whole lot of "mechanics" (bike) that "work for a shop" that I wouldn't want within 10 feet of any of my bikes with a wrench.


Well, at least thats one thing we agree on, I've met mabie 1 or 2 tops fellow mechs I would let touch my bike and a couple friends I have that I trust, thats about it.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Heavyhitter04 said:


> In its simplest form euro bearings are small bearings pressed into thread cups, so you have 2 bearing/cups that thread into the frame, between these bearings/cups is a steel or aluminum spacer. The width of this spacer changes from frame to frame and with bottom bracket bearing type. If this spacer is too narrow there is a void or space between the spacer and the bearings. When you install the spindle and tighten down the crank arms in the correct fashion with the wrong spacer width there will be too much pre-load or side load on the bearings which will prematurely wear them out.
> 
> The simplest way to check that the spacer is the right width is to disassemble the cranks and take the spindle out, with good bearings installed the spacer should be wedged between the bearings/cups with no free play, if the space moves around with any kind of loose play it is too narrow. Another way which is more of a lazy way to check if the correct with spacer is installed is to take the chain off the bike and see if the cranks spin freely. They should spin very freely with "good" bearings installed and the crank arms tightened to the correct Nm torque. There are more ways to check for correct spacer width these are the two I use more often.
> 
> ...


Thanks...I'm taking care of it.

To everyone else, I do consider myself a mechanic, and I will tell you why. Bicycles are all I really know. I'm 39 years old and at the risk of sounding quite silly and behind in the times, I myself have never owned a car, or had a drivers licence or been able to afford a car, (I'm also legally disabled) and if I wanted to get somewhere I rode a bike. I couldnt afford a bike shop either, so if something broke I fixed it or leaned how, by 10-12 years old I was already learning how to repack bearings. Anyway, I could go on, but you get the point, and I I think DM said it best "Anyway, my point is that Jeff may be a mechanic to some but not to others." If I meet your qualifications, great, if not...who cares right.

Laterz. J


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

The thing is... repacking and adjusting bearings works on the same concepts as your bottom bracket... So if you can't do one... you can't really do the other.


----------



## Heavyhitter04 (Jan 23, 2009)

*Moving On*

I'm still wondering why people are worried about other people's abilities? I am new to MTBR and still wondering if this site is about pissing contests or bikes. If you don't have something helpful to post why waste your time or ours, I just have to scroll down that much farther.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

XSL_WiLL said:


> The thing is... repacking and adjusting bearings works on the same concepts as your bottom bracket... So if you can't do one... you can't really do the other.


Erm...not really, you see, old school hub/BB bearings generally used a loose bearing (hubs) or caged bearing (BB) and either has a cone shaped nut that faces the bearing, on the backside of the bearing race and you have a washer/nut (BB) or locking nut (hubs) and to ajust these you need two sets of wrenches for each, one to hold the cone nut while you tighten the locking nut. These new euro BB specifically BMX style work more on the principal of being very precise and tight...as someone mentioned earlyer, if the spacer in the middle of the euro BB doesnt quite fit or is the slightest off it will destroy the BB (it needs to be very precise - a sh*tty design I might add and the answer to my problem). Not so with unsealed old school BB's and hubs, as stated before, there are threads, washers and nuts holding it all togeather and is quite easy to adjust without putting or perhaps I should say without having to worry if your over or under tightning it, once you get it just barely tight enough to where theres no play, your good to go. Mountin bikes generally dont have either problem, there BB are threaded into the frame and the square taperd spindles are made to fit with very little adjustment needed (via threaded outer spanner nut/ring I think its called), also because the way the spindles are made square taperd arms mated to a square tapred spindle the pressure from the arms being torqued on rest on the spindle and not the bearings. Got it? :thumbsup:

Again though, this is pointless, I'm looking for a BMX BB thats not poorly designed and can take alot of abuse, anything else that needs to be said about my skills/anyones skills, or this or that, really doesnt matter, thats not the issue, also, this is internet and no one really cares anyway.

Thanks, J


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

jeffgothro said:


> once you get it just barely tight enough to where theres no play, your good to go.


thats preloading


----------



## xDetroitMetalx (Mar 19, 2009)

jeffgothro said:


> as someone mentioned earlyer, if the spacer in the middle of the euro BB doesnt quite fit or is the slightest off it will destroy the BB (it needs to be very precise - a sh*tty design I might add and the answer to my problem). Not so with unsealed old school BB's and hubs, as stated before, there are threads, washers and nuts holding it all togeather and is quite easy to adjust without putting or perhaps I should say without having to worry if your over or under tightning it, once you get it just barely tight enough to where theres no play, your good to go. Mountin bikes generally dont have either problem, there BB are threaded into the frame and the square taperd spindles are made to fit with very little adjustment needed (via threaded outer spanner nut/ring I think its called), also because the way the spindles are made square taperd arms mated to a square tapred spindle the pressure from the arms being torqued on rest on the spindle and not the bearings.


So I was right that you had the wrong BB Spacer? I don't know of any BMX style BB / Crank that don't have that 68/73/80something spacer.


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Cartridge bearings are preloaded just like loose or caged bearings. If you had read the explanation, you would realize that.

You wouldn't crank on loose balls until it barely spins, would you? So why would you do that with cartridge bearings? Cartridge bearings are no more than loose balls contained in a race. And there's a rubber (sometimes metal) shield to keep crap out. Cartridge bearings can also be disassembled (to an extent) for service. It all works on the same concept. In fact... cartridge bearings are much easier. You don't have to fiddle with cups and cones anymore.

With loose-ball hubs, if you crank down too much or too little, you will destroy the inner race as well. This is usually built into the hub. So now instead of just trashing a bearing, the whole hub is trashed. Replacing all those little bearings is also more of a pain. With cartridge bearings, you just press in or out. It is a modular unit.

Even with square taper or ISIS, if you're not assembling it correctly, it will not work right. You're bound to have problems if you cross thread the cups in... Or if you crank down the cups too tight. Or if you're trying to cram a 73mm BB into a 68mm shell.

You go from insinuating that there's nothing you could have installed wrong to the fact that it's overly complicated, foreign, and poorly designed. It is none of those things. Pretty sure this one will have to be chalked up to user error. Yes, there's a tube spacer (I had mentioned this... as had another user). It does not have to be precise down to the microns. It can be off to some extent and work just fine. You blew it off... But the way you described it... Sounds like you left something out. And you dismissed it before. Why the change of heart now? Now you're trying to pin the blame on the spacer?

Yes... a Euro BB does require the use of smaller bearings. But it's usually not a problem until you start moving onto larger diameter spindles (like 22mm spindles). Even Spanish BBs work on the same concept. There's a tube spacer in the middle.

Now... Do YOU get it?


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

jeffgothro said:


> Erm...not really, you see, old school hub/BB bearings generally used a loose bearing (hubs) or caged bearing (BB) and either has a cone shaped nut that faces the bearing, on the backside of the bearing race and you have a washer/nut (BB) or locking nut (hubs) and to ajust these you need two sets of wrenches for each, one to hold the cone nut while you tighten the locking nut. These new euro BB specifically BMX style work more on the principal of being very precise and tight...as someone mentioned earlyer, if the spacer in the middle of the euro BB doesnt quite fit or is the slightest off it will destroy the BB (it needs to be very precise - a sh*tty design I might add and the answer to my problem). Not so with unsealed old school BB's and hubs, as stated before, there are threads, washers and nuts holding it all togeather and is quite easy to adjust without putting or perhaps I should say without having to worry if your over or under tightning it, once you get it just barely tight enough to where theres no play, your good to go. Mountin bikes generally dont have either problem, there BB are threaded into the frame and the square taperd spindles are made to fit with very little adjustment needed (via threaded outer spanner nut/ring I think its called), also because the way the spindles are made square taperd arms mated to a square tapred spindle the pressure from the arms being torqued on rest on the spindle and not the bearings. Got it? :thumbsup:
> 
> Again though, this is pointless, I'm looking for a BMX BB thats not poorly designed and can take alot of abuse, anything else that needs to be said about my skills/anyones skills, or this or that, really doesnt matter, thats not the issue, also, this is internet and no one really cares anyway.


Are you even reading what people have told you? It doesn't seem like it. I don't think you'll find a bottom bracket that will hold up if it's not installed right. Pretty much all of them will have the same quality bearings, and be about the same price. Pick one you have the tools for, and see if you can find somone to help you install it correctly, and it will last you a good long time.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

sittingduck said:


> Are you even reading what people have told you? It doesn't seem like it. I don't think you'll find a bottom bracket that will hold up if it's not installed right. Pretty much all of them will have the same quality bearings, and be about the same price. Pick one you have the tools for, and see if you can find somone to help you install it correctly, and it will last you a good long time.


Yes, I am reading...loud and clear, subsequently, some other people assume I dont know what I'm doing - (gee, I've only seviced BB's probably a couple hundred times since 6th grade - I guess I'm still incompetent though eh [sarcasm]).



XSL_WiLL said:


> You go from insinuating that there's nothing you could have installed wrong to the fact that it's overly complicated, foreign, and poorly designed. It is none of those things. Pretty sure this one will have to be chalked up to user error. Yes, there's a tube spacer (I had mentioned this... as had another user). It does not have to be precise down to the microns. It can be off to some extent and work just fine. You blew it off... But the way you described it... Sounds like you left something out. And you dismissed it before. Why the change of heart now? Now you're trying to pin the blame on the spacer?


1. It is poorly designed.

2. User error...highly unlikely, in fact, I guarantee it (blame the assemblers in Tiawan), also blame the BB, the bolts that tighten the arms to the spindle wernt tight as they should be when I pulled the bike out of the box (they were mabie slightly more than finger tight, when the bolts were tightned the bearings were slightly tight, but not falling apart yet (I think?) - either way = poor design)!!!

3. If it doesnt have to be "precise" then explain why upon reinstalling it (exactly as it came apart, and I mean EXACTLY [I left nothing out] - THIS IS FACT!!!) why did it go back together to tight and my bearings are sh*t? (Refer to statement 1).

4. On second thought, nevermind, this is going nowhere and none of this really matters and to be honest, could I care less - I got the answers I was looking for, thanks everyone. Good day Mr.XSL_WiLL and everyone else.

Regards, J.


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

Just because you got all the pieces back together does not mean that you did it properly. When Will says it doesn't have to be precise, he's referring to the fact that there is usually a small bit of leeway in the adjustment.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Its all good dude, no worrys. :thumbsup:

(re-read my last reply - [Just because you got all the pieces back together does not mean that you did it properly. ] refer to statement 3)


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Judging by these and previous posts, you are not the most intelligent or open minded individual. Suck it up, you didn't know what you were doing and messed it up. It happens.

And you very clearly are not reading the posts thoroughly and comprehending them.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

XSL_WiLL said:


> Judging by these and previous posts, you are not the most intelligent or open minded individual. Suck it up, you didn't know what you were doing and messed it up. It happens.
> 
> And you very clearly are not reading the posts thoroughly and comprehending them.


Your grasping at straws bro, or trolling, and off topic (topic is alternative BB's to the one that came on my bike - not my skills or intelligence) furthermore, who are you to speak as though you know me or anything about me or my skills, the fact of the matter is you dont?!?!? Not anymore than I know you or anything about you, or your skills, nor would I pretend or assume to. You know what - believe what you want, whatever dude. 

Have a nice day.


----------



## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

the point everyone is getting at here: sounds like you are ruining your bottom brackets by reading your own descriptions of your methods/skills/issues, in fact, its painfully obvious to most people (not yourself though) that is the problem 

you can buy a new Euro BB to replace your ruined one, but frankly, all of them are within close enough proximity to each other in quality you'll just end up ruining it too...the one you had was not a piece of crap, or else this topic would be brought up a lot

go buy a new frame with mid BB or take your bike to a shop and have them install a new Euro for you


----------



## sittingduck (Apr 26, 2005)

We can only know you by what you say here.... and the observations he made are accurate from what you've typed.
You repeatedly ignored solid advice and keep asserting that the BB is to blame, when this is simply not logical.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

sittingduck said:


> We can only know you by what you say here.... and the observations he made are accurate from what you've typed.
> You repeatedly ignored solid advice and keep asserting that the BB is to blame, when this is simply not logical.


Quite the contrary - you assume I dont know what I'm doing, also, how could his "observations be accurate by what I've typed", I've maintined since the beginning I DID install it correctly, why was that ever in question, you assume I didnt?!?!? (puzzled) And no, again quite contrary, I HAVE takin "solid advice", - in fact at least since post #36 (but even before that, like post #7actually) I've thanked everyone for the advice and or been willing to go about my business and let the thread die, but as stated, a few of you have gone completely off-topic in assuming I dont know what I'm doing, or this or that, and attacted me over my competence or knowledge of bicycle mechanics, funny thing is, I've been fixing bikes longer than I'm sure most of you have even been alive (I've even probably been riding DJ bikes longer than anyone here, before DJ'ing was even called DJ [year 2000 I rode a 26' OM Flyer equipped with a 6 speed and suspended Pro Fork, canti brakes mounts, my bike was one of if not the first true 26' DJ - well before Blk Mrkt came out :thumbsup: ). Could it be possible I just got a "BAD" BB that came with my bike, so far except for one post someone made I dont recall anyone even assuming that might in fact be the problem. So much for small minds eh? :nono:

Why cant some of you just accept the fact I DO know what I'm doing, and get over it - why do you keep coming back and making it a big deal of it, especially since you dont know me or were even there to see me install it? :madman: I swear, I feel like I'm in high school again - geez, move on people, there are better things to do than dick over things that arnt even on topic, go ride, thats what I'm gonna go do after I type this. Good day - ride hard - and god bless!


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

It was working just fine before you tinkered with it. Then immediately after re-assembly, it was rough. That certainly sounds like user error... and NOT a faulty bottom bracket.


----------



## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

"ruining your bottom brackets by reading your own descriptions of your methods/skills/issues"

How so? How many times do I have to state I installed in "CORRECTLY" ...no one seems to be able to read the words coming out of my mouth, so see, I could say the same this as you just said...anyway, seems to me I've made that point painfully obvious...NO ONE IS LISTENING? BTW, I dont want a new frame, I'm quite happy w/ the Blk Mrkt, and unless you can tell me of a bike thats exactly the same with an american BB I'm not to interested.

(NOTE: better yet - bring back american BB's = proven tech that actually works - I have sealed american BB's over 10 years old that still works nearly as good as the day I bought it)

A note on new tech BB's like mids (sorry, off topic a little).

NEW TECH = mostly marketing hype - the proof - why do kids need slammed seats, 14mm axles, mid/span BB's, 23lb jumping bikes? People like Matt Hoffman, Jay Miron (to name a couple) killed it on old-tech 35lb BMX bikes, un-slammed, but I guess you cant keep selling the same old product to new generations of kids (funny, I secretly laugh inside, at these kids on new 20" (___insert company brand here___) riding around - and I say to myself, your bike is junk, to light - I have friends who twist/bend or crack those frames all day long), dispite the fact the old stuff was better/stonger/etc - proof - my 1997 Standard STA (8 lb frame) will out last anything made to date, including the NEW STA's, the old tech has been PROVEN beyond doubt (in fact, if you can break my STA doing any stunt, I'll give you the replacment frame free, thats how sure I am). The point is, we as a cycling community have less choices than what we had during yester-year, we need to get these companys to bring back the things so many of us used, believed in, and even staked out lives on [and I did stake my life on my frame, I NEVER WORRED ABOUT MY STA FAILING ME, and IT NEVER DID] also, (good luck finding a 3/8 axle 48 spoke hub nowadays (except G-sport: for example). If such options were available to the consumer today, I probably wouldnt be here starting this topic.

Back on topic:

Hmmmm, ok, whatever, I'm not going to argue over it, thats already been to be proven quite in-effective...obviously. Thanks again.

Jeff


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Yes, you SAY you installed correctly. There is very different than actually installing them correctly.

How can you blame the assemblers in Taiwan? The BB was working FINE before you took it out. Therefore it was installed and adjusted correctly. After you removed it and re-installed, it became rough and hard to turn... How can the Taiwanese be responsible for something YOU did? The blame is obviously on you... you _may_ have put together things in the right order, but that means nothing if the bearing was not preloaded correctly (and you don't know what that means... so that leads to the belief that you fubared it).

Yes, maybe they did kill it on those old school machines. The sport is progressing. The new tech and geometry allows for lighter stronger bikes that are more versatile. There are lots of tricks today that aren't around then. I'm sure if you gave this newer gen of bike to the old riders, they'd be even better. A well-designed and built bike will be very strong.

American BBs are stupid. They're heavy. And they require tools to press/remove. Mid BBs use the same size bearings while being lighter and easier to install/remove. Mid BBs are the SAME as American BBs, it's just that they don't have to have cups that press in/out of shells.

14mm axles are much stronger and resist bending over 3/8 axles. This is especially true when grinding. Pegs put lots of leverage on the axle.

48 spoke wheels are overkill for most people. A decent rim and a proper wheel build will make a huge difference.

You are obviously not in the know.

Why do we need newer computers? People got along fine without them at all in the past. Why do we need more powerful or fuel efficient cars? Why are we making cars lighter? Why are we improving suspension?

Why do bikes need suspension?


----------



## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

The point that I and other posters are making is that the bottom bracket is not at fault. It does not matter how good of a bearing you use, if it is not installed and adjusted correctly (yours was not by YOUR fault), it WILL fail.

Euro BBs are not that bad with a 19mm spindle... Especially with the additional "give" in a suspended 26" bike.


----------



## xDetroitMetalx (Mar 19, 2009)

This is still going?


----------



## Axis (Mar 11, 2004)

Ok I am older than all you cats and I am a very good bicycle mech. I a lot of other experience, jet engines, cars but the point is the last paragraph.

Sorry man don't miss the message because of the messenger's delivery. Euro BB's w 19mm spindles will last a long time if installed correctly. They have a very small and subtle range of proper adjustment even if you have the perfectly sized spacer and the BB shell is faced perfectly.

I have seen older guys like us building up riots and 26" mtb and whatnot at RaysMTB for 6 years now. I have seen like 98% of them eff up the euro BB.... MYSELF INCLUDED the first time I tried to install one on an Evil DOC. A 16 year old kid showed me how to do it correctly.


----------



## xDetroitMetalx (Mar 19, 2009)

Owned by a 16 year old.

I recently installed my Deity set and it took me a long time to figure out the preload. But man, it taught me a lot. I think the preload adjust took me the longest total time to install on my whole project.


----------

