# Made In USA Apparel



## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

I can't help but think that much of the cycling industry's apparel format is that of "fast fashion." Made in China or Asia for pennies, sold at tremendous markup, little warranty coverage, and within a year it's been discontinued for the next style. 

Some companies do legitimately offer good warranties on overseas produced apparel, and some too go to great lengths for environmental and social considerations. Patagonia for example, offers a great warranty, despite their most of their stuff being produced in Vietnam. They also had issues with human trafficking within their supply chains. They've tried really hard to remedy all of those issues. Not every apparel company does. 

Which brings me to "Made in USA" cycling apparel. I'll updated the list below as I find more:

- Voler (who makes garments for other brands as well)
- Gravity Anamoly
- Aero Tech Designs
- Mission Workshop's Acre Supply
- Dirt Baggies
- Defeet
- RoguePak
- Kitsbow
- Boure (mostly road stuff)
- NWT3k
- RAD Apparel 

This doesn't remove all of the unsustainable practices and social issues surrounding the garment industries supply chains, but at least you know you're spend money on apparel sewn my American hands. 

Any others out there?


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Kitsbow opened a factory in Western NC last year. They're taking steps to improve the sustainability of their manufacturing process, too. Currently producing PPE for the pandemic in cooperation with Industry Nine and some other companies in the area.

fwiw, wearing my Kitsbow Icon shirt right now.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

Darn Tough. Love their no cushion socks for cycling... Or just for hot Phoenix summertime walking around.


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## andy f (Jan 13, 2004)

I have a 7Mesh Guardian rain shell that fits like it was tailored just for me. Canada rather than US but very nice stuff.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

andy f said:


> I have a 7Mesh Guardian rain shell that fits like it was tailored just for me. Canada rather than US but very nice stuff.


Of course it's nice. It's Canadian.


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## gregnash (Jul 17, 2010)

Isn't Point6 stuff US made? I know that it is the old owner of SmartWool and located in Steamboat Springs, not sure on the info for their creation.


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## shapethings (Feb 17, 2014)

another vote for a Canadian company:

I bought a pair of DP3 (formerly destroyer) pants from NF in BC. Only $30 more than the Fox pants I was going to buy and much better features. Ethical production, small company and I liked the pants so much I bought them in another color.

https://www.ridenf.com/


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## jmac481 (Jan 22, 2011)

Swiftwick


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## BeerCan (Aug 29, 2006)

Boure
https://www.boure.com/


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## rpearce1475 (Jan 24, 2015)

Love my Kitsbow stuff. Expensive but far, far more durable than any other cycling stuff I've owned. I have two pairs of their trail/XC baggies that I've used once a week or so for the past 3 years and crashed in more times than I can count. They still look almost new.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

made in american or assembled in america

made in america means the fabric was actually made here and cut and sewn in the usa.

assembled in america would mean overseas materials sewn into clothing here. 

do you know where the mill is for the fabric these companies are using?

personally i am not to concerned, but i do alot of importing.


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## BeerCan (Aug 29, 2006)

tim208 said:


> made in american or assembled in america
> 
> made in america means the fabric was actually made here and cut and sewn in the usa.
> 
> ...


Yeah, I guess Boure only say's sewn in the USA. So bets are it probably sources fabric from overseas.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Even being assembled in the USA is an improvement. 

The way I see it, if I'm paying $50-$75 for a jersey, or $100 for shorts, I should get a little bit more for my money than some company who is sourcing stuff from China or Asia where you can go Alibaba and find numerous similar examples for a 1/4 of the price. 

Now, if that big brand with its confident warranty wanted to offer it's Asian sourced and manufactured apparel for super cheap prices, yea ok I'll check them out, but often that isn't the case. They want top dollar for their "branding" but the product is super cheap. 

I feel like you're getting more for your money with the "locally" made stuff - and your money is going back into our economy.


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## ryanxj (Sep 9, 2011)

Thanks for starting this thread!

I will be back to reference any time I need new threads


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

It is very difficult to impossible (depending on your material) sourcing raw material made in USA, we just do not have that type of manufacturing anymore. An appropriate apparel label will indicate Made in USA from Imported material.

As far as just paying for branding, it is a bit more than that. Your paying for the QC portion of the manufacturing, ensuring your brand meets your specification.

Even if you could just buy a few pairs on Alibaba the manufacturer is not going to provide you with the quality that you will get from a company that is looking after their manufacturing.

Manufacturers are not brands, they just make things (copying or otherwise) to a specification. It is up to the Company/Brand to determine and uphold their standards.

If China could use fur from rats to cut corners on manufacturing they will with no specs provided.


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

I have several pairs of NWT3k shorts, a jersey, and a ski jacket and they're superb.
https://nwt3k.com/bike/custom-shorts

I agree with OP's premise...I'm not paying $100 for something I know was made in Vietnam for $4.


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## Bicycle019 (Jan 23, 2004)

steadite said:


> I agree with OP's premise...I'm not paying $100 for something I know was made in Vietnam for $4.


Just an FYI, on MTB apparel nothing that's going for $100 has an FOB cost of $4. That would barely cover the cost of the fabric, without any construction, trims (zippers, snaps, logos, etc) or labor. I would hazard a very educated guess that something with a MSRP of $100usd would FOB from the factory around the low $20 range. That's before freight costs to get it to the US and government tariffs are applied. Woven synthetic shorts have a 28% duty, knit synthetic jerseys are at 32%. Tack on another 7.5% on top of that if it's from China, soon to move back to 15% if the current "relief" expires.

Don't forget that the brand had to spend money paying a designer to design and color it, a product developer to commercialize it with a factory, then someone in marketing to promote that item on the website and various social platforms (IG, FB, Google ads, co-op dollars with retail partners, in store fixtures/hanger/posters/catalogs, etc) and a sales guy or gal to sell it and service the account. Scale this down for a small mom/pop size business and you can recoup some dollars, but it's hard to make significant scale this way, which is what this model needs long term to be viable.

Speaking of sales, it's probably being sold wholesale through dealers, who expect keystone margin - so that $100 item cost Bob's Bikes $50 before any program/volume discount or free freight programs. So that $20 paid to the factory to produce the short, with duty and freight cost the brand around $27, leaving at best, $23 in their pocket before paying design/development/sales/marketing/fixed (rent, power, sewer, etc) costs. Not a ton of profit in there.

You seem to fixate on the cost paid to the factory here, not the entire cost it takes to bring a product to market, which is well beyond the line item price on the invoice.

Even if the brand move production back to the US, take out the duty/freight lines, but bump up your labor line on the item cost, because there is no volume producers available for brands to work with, unless the brand decides to build the capacity themselves, and then you've got larger fixed costs like rent on the facility, tooling and machines, health care, 401k match, etc eroding profit there as well. There is a reason that the "made in the USA" brands are not a value price play, in most categories of consumer products.

No easy answers here. No one is making it super rich in the MTB apparel world. Unless you are selling luxury items where you far exceed "market value" pricing, that's how you can actually make money.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Harold said:


> Kitsbow opened a factory in Western NC last year. They're taking steps to improve the sustainability of their manufacturing process, too. Currently producing PPE for the pandemic in cooperation with Industry Nine and some other companies in the area.
> 
> fwiw, wearing my Kitsbow Icon shirt right now.


Cool, thanks for sharing.


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

Bicycle019 said:


> You seem to fixate on the cost paid to the factory here, not the entire cost it takes to bring a product to market, which is well beyond the line item price on the invoice.
> 
> Even if the brand move production back to the US, take out the duty/freight lines, but bump up your labor line on the item cost, because there is no volume producers available for brands to work with, unless the brand decides to build the capacity themselves, and then you've got larger fixed costs like rent on the facility, tooling and machines, health care, 401k match, etc eroding profit there as well. There is a reason that the "made in the USA" brands are not a value price play, in most categories of consumer products.
> 
> No easy answers here. No one is making it super rich in the MTB apparel world. Unless you are selling luxury items where you far exceed "market value" pricing, that's how you can actually make money.


My point is: as an engineer, I viscerally hate marketing BS, and over-value the manufacturing side. If a company is willing to go to the extra effort to manufacture domestically, I pay the extra for that. If there's no choice, then I look for value.

I go out of my way to avoid companies who are manufacturing in Asia for the sole reason that there's sufficient margin to pay influencers to convince me it's special.


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## Bicycle019 (Jan 23, 2004)

steadite said:


> My point is: as an engineer, I viscerally hate marketing BS, and over-value the manufacturing side. If a company is willing to go to the extra effort to manufacture domestically, I pay the extra for that. If there's no choice, then I look for value.
> 
> I go out of my way to avoid companies who are manufacturing in Asia for the sole reason that there's sufficient margin to pay influencers to convince me it's special.


I think you might over-estimate how much of the total spend marketing is in reality at most bike companies, and how much goes to "influencers", if any at all. That's a very small concept that has shown to have very little ROI for anyone involved. Most influencers in the bike space are doing it for little more than free product and some personal promo.

And I agree over-inflated hyperbole makes my brain hurt as well and is a turn off, but part of marketing is letting people know you have a product for sale. Just getting the basics of marketing covered - a functional web site, photography of the product, basic copy/descriptions, along with the minimum placeholders on the various social channels (where consumers expect to find your brand) is all a responsibility of the Marketing department at most companies. Blocking and tackling, the fundamentals. All brands at some point need to adhere to the famous 4 "P's" - product, price, placement, promotion. You need all four to some degree. You can have promotion without indulging in "marketing BS", and many brands do.

If you made the coolest, best riding product ever to hit the trail, how would you let people know about it? The "hang and hope" strategy of getting the item onto retailers hooks and hoping it sells is a very tough one, and usually not very successful.

Look at it from a retailer perspective - pretend I'm Bob who owns a bike shop, and Brand X wants me to take financial risk to carry their products. "Cool, I can make money" I think (potentially) with SuperStar product from Brand X, but the real question that often times gets dodged by brands that I should be asking them is "how are you (Brand X) going to help ME sell this stuff?" As a retailer I'm taking a risk bringing it in my door, the brands involvement should not stop once they write the order and ship it to me.

A good retailer needs, and expects that brands they invest in will help alert the general buying public that the new SuperStar item from Brand X is now available and at my store. That's where Marketing comes in, to help create pull. It can't just be a push model where the retailer has to do all the brand and product education for the product starting from scratch.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

This list be of interest to you: oldglorymtb.com/mountain-bike-parts-made-in-america

The information on that site may not all be totally up to date, however - I now have garments in stock which have been cut and sewn in USA, Italy and Romania, using fabrics from Italy, France, Taiwan, and probably other places which I'm forgetting.

I looked long and hard but never found suitable fabrics made in USA. Cytech in Italy make the only chamois pads I want to ride on.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

FYI , some of the brands I sourced in my initial post were from OldGlory. 

Admittedly, I didn't include many of the Made in USA Apparel companies making jersey styles and cuts similar to those that we were wearing in the 90's. AeroTech barely made the cut. 

Additionally, many of the products Old Glory has in their list aren't really cycling specific, in some cases they are just American made t-shirts with cycling themes. Not worth including.

There were also some companies either doing limited runs of products that have since ended, or were utilizing other manufactures I listed else where (Jerseys produced by Voler or AeroTech with branding for specific part manufactures.) 

Basically, my list is far better than OldGlory's.


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## PUNKY (Apr 26, 2010)

No it isn't. Check the tag. It's Made in China.


andy f said:


> I have a 7Mesh Guardian rain shell that fits like it was tailored just for me. Canada rather than US but very nice stuff.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

PHeller said:


> FYI , some of the brands I sourced in my initial post were from OldGlory.
> 
> Admittedly, I didn't include many of the Made in USA Apparel companies making jersey styles and cuts similar to those that we were wearing in the 90's. AeroTech barely made the cut.
> 
> ...


Did you find any other resources for Made In USA bike products, PHeller?
I'm starting a new bike company around a made in USA suspension bike (DigitBikes.com). Currently selling the first bikes through a crowdfunding campaign which ends in about 2 weeks. I'm surprised how little attention the made in USA factor has gotten. 



  




Anyway, if you have ideas of where mUSA aficionados hang out online, I'd love to know.

My apologies for derailing the thread with non-apparel content.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Tim-ti said:


> Did you find any other resources for Made In USA bike products, PHeller?
> I'm starting a new bike company around a made in USA suspension bike (DigitBikes.com). Currently selling the first bikes through a crowdfunding campaign which ends in about 2 weeks. I'm surprised how little attention the made in USA factor has gotten.
> 
> View attachment 1948668
> ...


When you say made in USA bike are you saying that everything on that bike is made in the USA?

Maybe there should be thread if there is none about made in USA bike components.

Anyway good luck with your endeavor must be very exciting and it looks like you are getting very close to meet your kickstarter goal.??


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

acer66 said:


> When you say made in USA bike are you saying that everything on that bike is made in the USA?
> 
> Maybe there should be thread if there is none about made in USA bike components.
> 
> Anyway good luck with your endeavor must be very exciting and it looks like you are getting very close to meet your kickstarter goal.??


I'm making the frames in California.

Because of the current supply chain struggles, I won't be selling complete bikes at first. As far as I know it's basically impossible to source all the drivetrain, fork, saddle, and other components from USA manufacturers.


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## acer66 (Oct 13, 2010)

Tim-ti said:


> I'm making the frames in California.
> 
> Because of the current supply chain struggles, I won't be selling complete bikes at first. As far as I know it's basically impossible to source all the drivetrain, fork, saddle, and other components from USA manufacturers.


Makes sense and I guess I missed that in your other thread.

Good luck.


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## PHeller (Dec 28, 2012)

Tim-ti said:


> Did you find any other resources for Made In USA bike products, PHeller?
> 
> Anyway, if you have ideas of where mUSA aficionados hang out online, I'd love to know.


There pretty much is none, aside from "Old Glory" or whatever.

I got into the mUSA stuff through my interest in Guerrilla Gravity. I noticed that I frequently had to correct people when they'd wrongly say their bike was Made in USA by Specialized, Cannondale, Pivot, Canfield, Revel, etc. The majority of buyers (especially new to the sport) assumed that because a company was "based" in America, that the frame must be made here too. That feels like an insult when you ride a bike that is really welded by an American in Colorado, and I'm not even the welder!

What's interesting is that the "cottage bike industry" and the "mainstream mountain bike industry" don't really overlap in buying preferences.

Lets take Paul Components for example. The type of buyer who pays for Paul Components is likely to search out Made in USA, "cottage manufactured" bike parts. That buyer, however, may have no interest in full suspension bikes, or any suspension for that matter. They may ride a mUSA rigid hardtail or gravel bike. They may wear all cottage industry apparel, but they are just a different type of consumer that most mountain bikers. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the people who are most likely to be interested in "cottage industry bike parts" are the people who are least likely to search them out and most dedicated to their local shop. I have some friends who love cottage made clothes and food and tools and well...everything else, but when I ask them "why do you buy Taiwanese made bikes then?" - it's because they LOVE their local bike shop - and the local bike shop doesn't carry mUSA stuff.

I would say that "crossover" area of mainstream riders and cottage industry riders is suspension - MRP and Cane Creek are good examples. I think people are curious to try something different, and mUSA suspension manufactures were in a good place to capitalize on the complaints many riders had about Rockshox and Fox between 2014-2018. It's interesting now that as GRIP2 and Charger 2.1 have become more well liked by the marketplace, MRP and Cane Creek are losing some of the interest. MRP especially has struggled with this, as the Ribbon gets older and bigger badder forks get all the attention.

Wheels are getting more interest too. I think people appreciate We Are One rims on mUSA I9 hubs, and the same goes for Revel. The consumer of those brands however is in a different class of buyer - they can afford to gamble with something maybe not at their local shop.

So, how do you attract the buyer who values mUSA stuff?

1) You go to every freaking bike festival you can, and you put people on bikes. You bring your welder dude along. You talk a big game about being the designer, the brand, the manufacturer, the logistics guy. You're the one stop shop for your company. "Who welds them?" "Oh this guy right here, his name is Carl, he's our welder. Aren't his welds sweet?" Reeb does this and it's great to meet the whole crew of people involved in making your bike.

1A) You show us your manufacturing floor. Heck, even if you sub out that work, show us someone elses manufacturing flooring where prototypes and production bikes are being welded by Americans.

2) You don't price your stuff like high-end, well known, over-engineered, get it in every color and take a test ride at your local shop big brands. GG did a great job with this - they priced their stuff to compete, and even beat, the bigger brands. Consumers couldn't say "well its too expensive for me gamble with your mUSA product" because well...it was cheaper than just about anything else on the market. They can't use cost as a reason to at least _consider _your product.

The Digit at $2750 seems like a great deal for someone wanting an alloy mUSA frame, but I'd also think Reeb's Squeeb would look really inviting at the same price.

3) You can't sell vaporware. Most GG owners I know bought their bikes only after riding one. They don't have shops - so how do most people ride them? They get in contact with enthusiastic owners. It sucks that it's so expensive, but you gotta have something for people to ride. Nobody will give you a dime until that happens. You build some demos, you sell those demos, you use those demo owners to spread the word. Those demo owners are your shops, they need to be friendly, they need to be willing to let someone else ride their bike, they need to be stoked on your product.

Datum should look towards building a demo fleet.

4) You create your own community. GG has a Facebook Group that's quite active. They push interested owners towards that group. That attracts some people, but I have friends who don't use facebook, but they liked seeing the GG sub-forum on MTBR, or the chatter elsewhere on the net. Heck, the fact that they were features on LoamWolf and Pinkbike was enough to really draw in interest.

In the end, people aren't just going to throw money at your product because its made in the USA. They are going to buy your product because they like it, because they like bragging about it, because they like talking with Datum owners about their bikes, because they like being involved in the process of building your brand and because randos at the trailhead go "whoa, what is that?" Those are the rewards to gambling with that relatively unknown mUSA frame - not just the fact that it was made in USA.


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

PHeller said:


> There pretty much is none, aside from "Old Glory" or whatever.
> 
> I got into the mUSA stuff through my interest in Guerrilla Gravity. I noticed that I frequently had to correct people when they'd wrongly say their bike was Made in USA by Specialized, Cannondale, Pivot, Canfield, Revel, etc. The majority of buyers (especially new to the sport) assumed that because a company was "based" in America, that the frame must be made here too. That feels like an insult when you ride a bike that is really welded by an American in Colorado, and I'm not even the welder!
> 
> ...


Thanks for the great feedback, that kinda echos my experience so far. I've been going to busy trailheads and bike parks for show-and-tell. The reception has been great, so much so that people have taken out their phones and asked me to walk them through ordering.

I'm going to think on all you've written. Thank you again for your insight.

I was going to go to Santa Cruz this weekend, but then I remembered that lots people there seem to think that Santa Cruz's are made there. And even if they're not, they know that the are from there. So I'm stying local enough that I can almost point to the factory from the trailhead.

Happy trails. Tim


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## tkblazer (Sep 18, 2005)

I haven't seen anyone mention this brand before, but Hellion bikes moved to bentonville recently and is currently working on a 27.5 full suspension with a cbf rear suspension. I'm hoping they will be able to make one in an Xs for my wife









Hellion Bikes Lands in Arkansas


Michael LaSalata always wanted to own his own bike shop. Growing up in western Washington state, he and his twin brother loved to be outside. In the days before video games took over, their father gave them BMX bikes. The boys loved them and spent all day riding. Eventually, they learned enough...




www.vitalmtb.com


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Tim-ti said:


> I'm making the frames in California.


Stunning design...congrats on making it this far. Damn you must be selling hella dirtbaggies 

Can you comment on the lefty rear triangle? Why you chose that design? flex, stiffness, compliance all that.

Geo wise the numbers look real nice (only looking at XL personally)...


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## Tim-ti (Jul 27, 2005)

TraxFactory said:


> Stunning design...congrats on making it this far. Damn you must be selling hella dirtbaggies
> 
> Can you comment on the lefty rear triangle? Why you chose that design? flex, stiffness, compliance all that.
> 
> Geo wise the numbers look real nice (only looking at XL personally)...


Mostly that left side strut just keeps the pivots on the rear triangle from spreading apart. I feel it's unnecessary to have a tube on each side because once the pivot bolts and wheel axle are tight the rear end becomes a rigid triangulated structure.

Not having a strut on the drive side helps with chain clearance, and if you wanted to you could even run a front derailleur.

Oh, I'm a happy Sweatbuster wearer. Thank you!


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