# Can women truly have non-sexual guy friends?



## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one. 

Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife. 

The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


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## Wasatch Walt (Jan 12, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


wow, you ARE bored today ...


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## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

Wasatch Walt said:


> wow, you ARE bored today ...


more than you know. I have the long shift today. But honestly I am curious about this.


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## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

*yes*



SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


does that answer your question, or are you asking something more specific?


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## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with?


What, are you high? Of course.

Back to bike talk.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

*of course*

We don't have penises to do our thinking for us. 'nuff said


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## Padre (Jan 6, 2004)

Haven't you seen "When Harry Met Sally?"


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

Impy said:


> What, are you high? Of course.
> 
> Back to bike talk.


no kidding!


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## girlywhirly (Apr 4, 2004)

*Yes.*



SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


You're asking the question as a man, and I realize it's impossible not to think like a man when you imagine an answer to that question. (Shakes her head pityingly...)

g


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

I have male acquantances, and good long term acquaintances, and yes even some good friends. But I am very very careful about what I share. I save my emotional vulnerability/deep truths etc for my husband, and keep my friendships of the opposite sex at an arm's length. I do not spend a lot of time on opposite sex relationships, I keep my focus on my partner.

formica


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

I wouldn't call it "innocence," however. If we're friends with a guy, it's not b/c we're *unaware* that he may want to sleep with us, or vice versa. 

The word is "common sense," and it applies to men as well. We're simply not constantly hoping for sex the way many guys tend to do.


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## SuperNewb (Mar 6, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


If there is I sure havent met one yet


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Why is "innocence" such an important quality? You don't want a woman to know what you're up to?


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## oldbroad (Mar 19, 2004)

The answer is yes.
Christine has got it right both times.


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## catzilla (Jan 31, 2004)

Nope. It's totally %100 across the board impossible. 

Hell, I can't even buy a gallon of milk without giving the male cashier a nobber.


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## torito (Oct 19, 2004)

*I would hope so.....*

....since most of my friends are guys. Not by choice, just by circumstance. The majority of people at work are guys and my hobbies are male dominated activities. So, most of my friends are guys.

With that said, the word cuckold came from somewhere!

T


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*yes, of course women can have non-sexual guy friends*

and it's interesting to me to read the posts here in light of a study I once read about in which women and men were asked which behaviors constitute cheating. Women were much more likely to consider emotional attachments cheating (and were more likely to forgive a one-night stand), while men typically responded that only physical encounters would fall into that category. So, if a guy thinks his girlfriend is overreacting to his close friendship with his female buddy (he believes he's innocent 'cause he isn't sleeping with the buddy), the girlfriend will see things differently (that he has a deep emotional attachment to a woman other than herself).

In an ideal relationship (in my opinion), the two parties are both lovers and best friends and don't feel the need to go elsewhere for either physical or emotional bonds.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

Well, I sorta disagree with the above statement in that my bike buddies are passionate about riding, and we can connect well "emotionally" (if it can be called that) when recalling great trips and trails. 

It helps prevent the non-biking spouse from a bike-chat overload.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*clarification*

Just to clarify, I didn't mean I thought any emotional connection with someone besides your spouse/significant other was a bad thing, but that (in my opinion) your _closest_ emotional connection should be with that person rather than with anybody else.

But, others certainly may disagree!


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## clarkgriswald (Dec 19, 2003)

*Ahhh....*

where do you buy your milk? I am thinking engineering isn't much fun. Cashier sounds fun.



catzilla said:


> Nope. It's totally %100 across the board impossible.
> 
> Hell, I can't even buy a gallon of milk without giving the male cashier a nobber.


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## springfever (Mar 7, 2005)

catzilla said:


> Nope. It's totally %100 across the board impossible.
> 
> Hell, I can't even buy a gallon of milk without giving the male cashier a nobber.


Catzilla, you crack me up. In my opinion the world doesn't have enough smart asses, keep up the good work! I'm guessing that cashier is always volunteering for overtime!


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## grannyannie (Jun 5, 2004)

*ha ha*



catzilla said:


> Nope. It's totally %100 across the board impossible.
> 
> Hell, I can't even buy a gallon of milk without giving the male cashier a nobber.


okay i was about to write off this entire post as worthless....but that was pretty damn funny.


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## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

Thank you christine and formica for your posts. As I went back to re read what I posted I realized I could have been more specific. Its hard for me to ask this question because I am a man and my life experience so far has led me to believe that women can't be trusted and men especially can't be trusted, put them together and lives can be ruined. I do know a ridding buddy who has broken up with his girlfriend/ fiance recently because she would seek out only male friends. She would spend quite a bit of time with some of these guys alone. leave it up to the good ol' paranoid male brain to come up with horrible what ifs. I don't know the outcome but he does not want to ride as much and now I am without a trail buddy. In my marriage my wife has "accidently" fallen asleep at one of her male friends house. I was angry but there could be two sides to the story. One could be that she was out late and really tired and just fell asleep! Perhaps I should be thankful and happy she did not try and drive home sleepy. On the other hand, during that point of our lives we where going through a "rocky" part of our marriage. The guy she is friends with is as she put it "attractive" but a shoulder to cry on during our rocky times and nothing else ( I have never met him or many of her friends. My mind can think up so many porno type scenarios that could have taken place...... But there is no proof. I have chosen to forget it, and just go on. I realize that you guys or girls can't speak for everyone, but I wanted to get a general feel for how people especially women feel about the boundaries in a relation ship.


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## kept man (Jan 13, 2004)

Wow dude ... that post puts a slightly different slant on things.

For whatever my opinion is worth, I think it comes down to trust - not what is or is not possible based on people's horniness or whatever.

My two closest friends from university are both single, amazing women ... there have been times when I spend time alone with both or either of them, and I have crashed the night at the one's place a couple of times. But I make sure to let Mrs. Kept know in advance ... and I already know in advance that Mrs. Kept knows and is comfortable (and is friends) with those people. And we all know that while we might flirt jokingly back and forth that I am entirely dedicated to Mrs. Kept, and she to me ... it works the same way with her guy friends.

Alternatively, I know someone who, while it is never physical, 'cheats' on her husband constantly ... she divulges deep, private, emotional stuff with her male friends. I mean, I'm all for openness and sharing, but if you don't/can't chat about it with your SO ... well, why are you chatting about it with a friend of the opposite sex? Especially when it's relationship complaining? That's baked.

From what you say, I'd say that's not cool ... it's a violation of trust, and it's not showing proper respect for you as a spouse.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> I have never met him or many of her friends. .


This is where I would not understand. Why haven't you met your wife's friends?

Maybe this is just because my husband and I do so many things together, but I don't think we have any friends who we're currently in contact with that we don't both consider friends. Obviously there are some he's closer with, some I'm closer with, but we all know one another. And it brings to mind a time over the winter where I stayed home rehabbing my knee while he was out skiing with friends/hiking/and otherwise exhausting themselves all day long. We were supposed to go to a party that night at one of his friend's houses, but he was too tired to go and called me on his way home to tell me he was going straight to bed at 7:30pm. But since I had been looking forward to the party after a weekend of doing nothing but rehab alone, he insisted I go anyway instead of sitting on the sofa watching him snore and feeling lonely. So I did. But he knows and trusts both me AND his friends, so I think even if I was out way late (which I wasn't) it wouldn't have been a big deal.

I'm not really the suspicious sort, but if he had friends he didn't want me to meet, I'd have to wonder what was up... Co-workers? Acquaintances I haven't met yet? sure. Friends (that are more than old friends who he hasn't seen in years)? that'd be weird.


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## MidAtlanticXCer (May 21, 2004)

*ditto*



torito said:


> The majority of people at work are guys and my hobbies are male dominated activities. So, most of my friends are guys.


I am a Physicist who Mountain Bikes. So yup, mostly guy buds. OTOH, some of my MTB buddies have very cool non-riding spouses who I also quite like.


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## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

connie said:


> This is where I would not understand. Why haven't you met your wife's friends?
> 
> I'm not really the suspicious sort, but if he had friends he didn't want me to meet, I'd have to wonder what was up... Co-workers? Acquaintances I haven't met yet? sure. Friends (that are more than old friends who he hasn't seen in years)? that'd be weird.


we are in a new city with new jobs and we started kinda fresh. Most if not all her friends are from work. Unfortunately in our marriage we have gone two separate ways as far as our interest's go. I am a new mtber and nature lover and thats not going to ever stop, while she is totally into shopping malls, starbucks and "yuppy" stuff. She does not like philosophical stuff and prefers not to think when she does not have to. I on the other hand enjoy debating about philosophical stuff and using my mind to think of things that don't pertain to paying taxes and work.

I don't know what to think of all this, I figure if she is or was having an affair why is she still with me? During that time we threatened each other with divorce but we never went through with it. Things seem to be better now and we are making love and being nice to each other, I have recently taken her out to an easy trail and she rode a mtb with me. She enjoyed it but did not love it. she would have really loved it if there was a starbucks or an old navy at the end of the trail. The messed up coincidence is she started acting right when he left for several months. He is coming back from school or something in a few months. During this "rocky" period there has been some ugly but undeniable coincidences and excuses for her actions. The kind of situations where it could go either way, it just depends on who I choose to believe and how I choose to react.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> we are in a new city with new jobs and we started kinda fresh. Most if not all her friends are from work. Unfortunately in our marriage we have gone two separate ways as far as our interest's go. I am a new mtber and nature lover and thats not going to ever stop, while she is totally into shopping malls, starbucks and "yuppy" stuff.


I wish I had something more to offer, but I'm the type that married my twin as far as interests go. I know there are plenty of people out there who have different interests and different friends and make things work, but they'd have to elaborate on how it works out for them.

Sorry to hear what you're going through and I hope you can get back to trusting one another.


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## torito (Oct 19, 2004)

"I am a new mtber and nature lover and thats not going to ever stop, while she is totally into shopping malls, starbucks and "yuppy" stuff. She does not like philosophical stuff and prefers not to think when she does not have to. I on the other hand enjoy debating about philosophical stuff and using my mind to think of things that don't pertain to paying taxes and work. "

I've got to ask, then why did you marry her? The way you describe her, it doesn't sound like you LIKE her very much (which is something different then love). I know way too many guys that married some "hot chick" they met in their early twenties and now in their late twenties/early thirties, they have nothing in common with their wife other then bills and kids (if they have them). And it's sad. 


You told us very little about your marriage, but it is sounding all too familiar to me.

T


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

> Perhaps I should be thankful and happy she did not try and drive home sleepy. On the other hand, during that point of our lives we where going through a "rocky" part of our marriage. The guy she is friends with is as she put it "attractive" but a shoulder to cry on during our rocky times and nothing else


danger will robinson.

you need to regain your emotional intimacy, so that she ( or you for that matter) doesn't fool themself into thinking that someone else is there for themwhen the partner isnt' available. Once either of you turns away to getting emotional needs met somewhere else, let's just say that won't help smooth out a rocky road. As hard as it may be, someone has to start building bridiges back to each other, even if it takes professional help to do it.

shoulder to cry on, attractive, my ass. 
I learned a long time ago to act it even if I didnt' feel it, and then the feelings would and do follow. Which means I always treat my partner with respect, and love, and save my emotional intimacy for him alone.

formica


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

So sorry to hear you're going through this. 

Formica's advice sounds better than anything I could add. However, I wouldn't suggest using this info to blow up at your wife or demand that she stop hanging out with that other guy or whatever. That's just temporary relief of the symptom.

Easier said than done- vocalize your concerns. An objective third party (aka shrink) would be very helpful as a referee.


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## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

I married her because we seemed to complement each other and could share alot of the same interests and beliefs in life. There is more to it than that but, I don't want to get more personal about the whys on this forum. The sad thing is those things that we had in common just grew apart over the years. I think I am a completely different person than who I was 4 years ago, so is she. We where married in japan, (shes american) we where both nurses in the navy. we lived there for years and this problem didn't arise until we can to the states. I personally feel that this recent exposure to the attention of other men has gone to her head. There is so much more to it than what I have written but, I can not write of all the personal details of my marriage on a public mtb forum. I appreciate the help so far. 

I believe that a husband or wife has no business spending the night at another persons house if that person is alone and of the opposite sex. My wife, when confronted calmly and tactfully about her actions did not seem to agree and did not think it was as big of a deal as I had made it out to be. she still does not like it when I bring it up as an example.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> I believe that a husband or wife has no business spending the night at another persons house if that person is alone and of the opposite sex. My wife, when confronted calmly and tactfully about her actions did not seem to agree and did not think it was as big of a deal as I had made it out to be. she still does not like it when I bring it up as an example.


Generally, I agree, but I can think of odd situations where it could happen. Well, heck, when we first bought our house here in Utah, I was finishing up my time in the Army in Texas, and my husband's best friend's wife came out to Utah to visit for a week and see if they wanted to move there. So she stayed at our house with my husband for a week. I never even thought about it as out of the ordinary. But I think your situation sounds like there's a lack of trust that puts a whole different light on things. And I'd agree if you are going to put things back together, you might need some marriage counseling. Because just bringing up that you're hurt by her staying overnight over and over again - that has to be making her angry/nuts too. If it was innocent, you're driving her crazy over nothing. And if it wasn't - I don't know - what's it going to solve? You've got to let it go whether you stay together or not.

I think you mentioned she's getting into acting - and has been getting more attention from men lately? I guess if that's her career now - that would be normal. (I don't have a clue, but I'm just guessing). And I would think some jealousy on your part would also be normal.

I guess the bottom line is that you have to decide if you want to make it work, or you want to say you've grown apart and move on. I don't see how you're ever going to have definitive proof as to whether she's been faithful or not, so you're going to have to decide to trust her again, or call it quits. If you want to make it work, make an effort to meet her friends and do some things she likes to do so you're together more.


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Christine said:


> So sorry to hear you're going through this.
> 
> Formica's advice sounds better than anything I could add. However, I wouldn't suggest using this info to blow up at your wife or demand that she stop hanging out with that other guy or whatever. That's just temporary relief of the symptom.
> 
> Easier said than done- vocalize your concerns. An objective third party (aka shrink) would be very helpful as a referee.


thanks C. I can only speak from my own experience. I'm not going to tell my story here, but let's just say I did some really stupid things at one point in time that jeapordzied my marriage and family. The thing is, we both went to work, hard work, to look at what was going wrong. .. yes, serious marriage counseling among other things, and busted our butts to put it back together. Those were some tough times. It's no fun to look at yourself and to see what part you play in the problem. It takes two of course, and it's lots easier to point fingers than it is to examine your own motives. But..... my story has a happy ending.

formica


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*warning bells*

Sorry to hear about your troubles, and I wish I could tell you it would all work out all right in the end, but only you and your wife can control that. I think Connie and Formica have given some great perspective. I just wanted to add, in response to your statement



> she still does not like it when I bring it up as an example.


that, as tough as it is, you have to forgive and forget to make it work. Personally, I think the forgetting is harder than the forgiving. I have two friends who were dating, and an unscrupulous friend of his made some (false) accusations against her, and my male friend dwelled on it for a year before finally breaking up with her because he couldn't get it out of his head. It was extremely painful to both of them that he kept bringing it up whenever they hit the slightest (unrelated) bump during that year. I'm not saying that you aren't right to worry (I really can't make that judgement with the little info I have), but just that if you decide to work it out with her you'll have to find the strength to bury that example and never resurrect it.

Best of luck.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

"I believe that a husband or wife has no business spending the night at another persons house if that person is alone and of the opposite sex."

I can assure you, however, that just b/c somebody is single, doesn't mean they want to jump the bones of your spouse!! 

There's more to cheating on a spouse than simply being alone in a room with a single person. There has to be temptation, motive, and TWO interested parties.

I'm as single as they come, but I know where to draw the line. Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine. Don't like when people assume things that have no basis in reality.

Formica, your story is inspiring. My tactic of avoiding relationships altogether isn't really such a great one!


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## SueB (Mar 16, 2004)

Yes, opposite sex can be just friends. I have many male friends. I have three brothers, no sisters, not even girl cousins. When my parents each remarried they added ten step-brothers between them. I am very comfortable around men. However, when I have an emotional issue I need to deal with I normally share with my female friends. I do have one male friend who I've known for years that I share with, but it is very clear between us that it is a friendship, more of a sister-brother relationship. When I'm in a relationship with someone I don't hang with my male friends as much and would never stay over thier house. To me that is a lack of respect to the man I'm in a relationship with. Just my .02


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## lucifer (Sep 27, 2004)

lol
this is debated ad nauseum on another board. And the general consensus is that this is possible if any of the following conditions exist.

A. The guy is gay
B. The guy already has a much hotter girlfriend (although 9 times out of 10 if you ladies think a guy is your friend he would sleep with you anyways....)


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## s1ngletrack (Aug 31, 2004)

lucifer said:


> lol
> this is debated ad nauseum on another board. And the general consensus is that this is possible if any of the following conditions exist.
> 
> A. The guy is gay
> B. The guy already has a much hotter girlfriend (although 9 times out of 10 if you ladies think a guy is your friend he would sleep with you anyways....)


Not playing devil's advocate here (sorry, had to be said) - but this is the truth.


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## alaskarider (Aug 31, 2004)

*the question was NOT whether he would sleep with her*

but whether she would sleep with him.



> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that *she is not interested in sleeping with?*


As Christine pointed out, it takes TWO interested parties for cheating to occur. Whether a man would sleep with his female friends is only part of the equation. And, with all due respect, women may be better able to explain a woman's perspective--in general--than men. (I imagine that's why Smokey asked the question in the Women's Lounge.)


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I've had fun reading the threads here. 

I would answer yes to the original question, or at least yes in my experience. We have almost 16 years together, 3 kids, dog, and minivan as proof. My advice for how a normal guy thinks is to consider grocery shopping, and my wife agrees. You examine all that's there, check the quality and ingredients, the prices, maybe even give a touch or squeeze but eat at home.

My advice for those still shopping is similar, but be very suspicious of artificial ingredients and look at his/her spending even more than the asking price. Remember that some ingredients do not always go together and live with it.

For those not happy: Yes people do not always do the best job shopping, but with some effort and creativity one can come up with something pretty darn good. 

If it's all just luck we really hit the jackpot.


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


My 2 cents: I think a person can be "just friends" with a member of the opposite sex. I have female friends and my GF has male friends. I'm more worried about the guys than her. I've actually had guys hit on my GF with me standing there. I was talking to a salesman and she turned around to see some guy staring at her. Starting winking and tried to get her to walk over to him. Of course she didn't tell me this 'till we were back in my car and going down the road. Now my GF is a jealous girl and it has caused some fights between us. One member on the forums here was in the neighborhood and I had offered to shown them some local trails. I thought she was a he. When she called my GF happened to be right there and she heard her voice. My GF was P!SSED off and we had a fight over it. I had to call her back, explain that I thought she was a he and that my GF wasn't cool with that. She did tell me to invite my GF, but my GF doesn't ride so that wasn't an option. I apologized and I think she found someone else to hag with that day. I do have a couple female friends myself and she does have a couple male friends.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

"When she called my GF happened to be right there and she heard her voice. My GF was P!SSED off and we had a fight over it. I had to call her back, explain that I thought she was a he and that my GF wasn't cool with that."

Stuff like this makes me crazy. It's like being punished for being a female mtb'er. Sometimes women don't seem to understand that THEY are hindering the concept of equality for other women! 

Now, if this person was an ex-GF or something along those lines- if your GF had a *reason* to think she was a threat, that's one thing. But a woman isn't a threat just b/c she's a woman! Grrrrr.


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## crashedandburned (Jan 9, 2004)

Christine said:


> But a woman isn't a threat just b/c she's a woman! Grrrrr.


Oh, I agree with that. I have no problem with that myself. IF my GF hadn't been so PO'ed about it I would've still shown the woman around the trails. I still went riding that day and at the same trail system. And for the record she doesn't have a "reason" to think I would stray. We've had our fights and almost broke up a time or two, but I don't believe in cheating. LOOKING is a different story though  *can feel the flames flickering over that remark*


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## chainsuck (Feb 21, 2005)

The friendship will only be good if the opposite-sex "just friends" are not attracted to each other.


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## crashjames (Mar 16, 2005)

*I believe this is the correct answer*



chainsuck said:


> The friendship will only be good if the opposite-sex "just friends" are not attracted to each other.


what s/he said ^


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## AliceT55 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Not possible and some women lie*

Some women lie, hell they even date their step-brothers.


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## bad_lil_kitty (Mar 23, 2005)

For some, the answer is *Yes*; for others, the answer is *No*.

For me, yes.

Do a google on Ladder theory... it's intertesting...


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## atvsmurf (Mar 9, 2005)

yes and no... My wife has always had guy friends, I have always had gal friends. We have made it a point to always get to know each others friends. If you can't share that then you may need to reconsider; either A: the relationship or B: the type of friends each of you have.
Now neither me nor my wife would ever go to someones house and fall asleep (same or opposite sex), accidentally or otherwise. We both know where our bed is and what time we need to be there. If I was out late and did fall asleep, she would be worried to death(as would I), not that I would be doing anything, but that I may have wrecked or broken down. In the seven years of marriage I have never gone(alone) to be alone with a member of the opposite sex, I respect my wife much more than that, as she does me.
It sounds to me like you have some issues, or you wouldn't be asking this question. You need to look at the relationship; see where you want it to be going, see where she wants it to go, and determine if the two paths will work together. The only way to do this is by communication, and both parties need to leave anger, pride, contempt and jealousy out of it. 
All things don't work out. All people grow, some in different directions. Sharing bills is far from a relationship, and I know of quite a few couples who grew in different directions. That didn't make them bad people, only made them incompatable with one another. The last one of my friends/couples to split are much better off than they were together. Don't think I am telling you to go for the big D but look at the entire situation. I hope that it works out...


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## SMOKEY (May 19, 2004)

Thanks. Things have gotten a bit better overall. We spoke and I made myself clear of the things I expected from a wife. I gave her "the rules" and she responded with a bit of an attitude but, I think she got the message when I told her I was "out of here" if she ever tries to pull any crap like that again. For now all I can really do is try and trust her again and stop my paranoid, jealous, insecure thoughts from churning in my head. We both need to grow up a bunch but, imo, she has a little more work ahead of her if she wants to stay with me.

What's funny to me is I remember reading magazines and watching TV talk shows as a younger man where there seems to be all sorts of disgruntled unhappy wives who complain about the fact that their husbands are not sensitive, they don't communicate, they don't spend time with them, they don't listen, they don't make love to them, they are lacking in bed etc, etc... So what happened to me? Its like a cruel joke. I am _supposedly_ what lots of women want in a man (I say this as humbly as possible, I'm not conceited), yet the woman I am with does not appreciate that! I guess thats life?


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*Omfg!*



catzilla said:


> Nope. It's totally %100 across the board impossible.
> 
> Hell, I can't even buy a gallon of milk without giving the male cashier a nobber.


 that was the funniest thing I read all day! Thanks!


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## capn cowbell (Mar 30, 2004)

I know you don't want the guy's perspective but here is mine anyways. I have several female friends without wanting to go to bed with them. This doesn't hold true for my thoughts on all of them but definitely on most of them. Any one worth having as a friend won't try anything


SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

yes women can have a very close non-sexual relationship w/guys....just find a gay guy....they might even help you paint your toenails or do a better makeup job then yourself


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> and she responded with a bit of an attitude


The modern independent woman often has a tough time giving up that independence. It's tough when so many people ar eraised in families where the woman, or man, is a single parent, and kids have no real example to go by as to what commitment really means.

Friends of the opposite sex can, and are, often a big problem in relationships. My most recen t GF and I broke up in part because I refused to stop having another woman as a friend and riding buddy. This buddy and I had dated previously, but were no longer anything but friends. Interestingly, I suspect that my buddy is now prohibited from riding with me by her new BF.

Just be careful not to let irrational jealousy control you. Nobody wants to be subject to constant scrutiny as to who they have been with and what they were doing.


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

"The modern independent woman often has a tough time giving up that independence."

Independence and commitment are NOT mutually exclusive. In fact, I'd argue that being overly dependent makes for more problems than the reverse. I don't think Smokey's gf suffers from too much independence, just plain old selfishness. If she has attitude because Smokey is telling her his boundaries of acceptable behaviour, it's not a sign of independence. It's a little kid reaction at not getting to have her cake and eat it too. And I'd argue that she's far from independent, she's just not completely depending on Smokey, which is a whole other matter.

So Bikehigh: don't paint all "modern independent women" with the same brush, ok?

Mary Ann


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## Bikehigh (Jan 14, 2004)

Mary Ann said:


> So Bikehigh: don't paint all "modern independent women" with the same brush, ok?
> 
> Mary Ann


Did I say all, every, or even most modern independent women have a tough time giving up that independence? No, I said "often". As a modern independent man, single father btw, I'm only speaking from what I have experienced and observed. I never said independence was a bad thing either, but what exactly is wrong with depending on your partner and having them depend on you when you're in a commited relationship such as marriage? To deny that some women would have a problem moving from the single life where they answer to no one, to the reality of a life where they are suddenly accountable to some one else and have expectations placed upon then as to how they behave, is just denying the obvious. And yes, the same goes for some men too. Perhaps even myself, given my own refusal to get rid of my friend to satisfy that recent ex I mentioned.

Anyway, I didn't mean to start anything. Sorry to have ruffled your feathers.


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## Mary Ann (Jan 13, 2004)

"Did I say all, every, or even most modern independent women have a tough time giving up that independence?"

I took it as implied with the word "the", in your sentence "the modern woman...". Using the word "often" didn't soften it for me, sorry. Whatever your intention, what you conveyed came across as much more generalized and sweeping.

"what exactly is wrong with depending on your partner and having them depend on you when you're in a commited relationship such as marriage?"

I come at the definition of "dependence" differently from you, I suppose. I don't see being committed to a relationship and being independent as contradictory. My definition of independence means: I have a good sense of myself and don't "need" anyone else to define my happiness. It does not mean that "I do what I want when I want, my spouse be-damned." 

No feathers are ruffled. I just wanted you to be aware that not every woman feels a need to give up independence (how I defined it) to be in a relationship. But since it seems you said something sweeping and generalized by mistake, my assertion is obviously not be needed. 

Mary Ann


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## Dwight Moody (Jan 10, 2004)

*Coming from somewhere*



torito said:


> With that said, the word cuckold came from somewhere!
> 
> T


roots of "cuckold", occording to the Oxford English Dictionary:

[ME. cukeweld, cokewold (3 syllables), adaptation of an OF. word which appears in 1463 as cucuault, pointing to an earlier *cucuald, f. OF. cucu cuckoo (in 15-17 c. cocu, 16-17th c. coucou, cuckoo and cuckold; mod.F. coucou cuckoo, cocu cuckold, also, dialectally, cuckoo), with the appellative and pejorative suffix -ald, -auld, -ault, -aud = It. -aldo, f. Ger. -wald: see Diez, Gramm. Lang. Rom. (1874) II. 346. (The Sw. dial. kukkuvall is from F.; mod.Icel. kokkáll from English.) 
Another OF. synonym was coucuol, couquiol, with dimin. ending, app. from Prov.: cf. OPr. coguiol, mod.Pr. couguieu, couquieu, couguou, cuckoo and cuckold. The current F. equivalent is the simple form cocu. The origin of the sense is supposed to be found in the cuckoo's habit of laying its egg in another bird's nest; in Ger., gauch and kuckuk, and in Pr., cogotz, were applied to the adulterer as well as the husband of the adulteress, and Littré cites an assertion of the same double use in French; in English, where cuckold has never been the name of the bird, we do not find it applied to the adulterer.]


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## Cooter. (Apr 14, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> Thank you christine and formica for your posts. As I went back to re read what I posted I realized I could have been more specific. Its hard for me to ask this question because I am a man and my life experience so far has led me to believe that women can't be trusted and men especially can't be trusted, put them together and lives can be ruined. I do know a ridding buddy who has broken up with his girlfriend/ fiance recently because she would seek out only male friends. She would spend quite a bit of time with some of these guys alone. leave it up to the good ol' paranoid male brain to come up with horrible what ifs. I don't know the outcome but he does not want to ride as much and now I am without a trail buddy. In my marriage my wife has "accidently" fallen asleep at one of her male friends house. I was angry but there could be two sides to the story. One could be that she was out late and really tired and just fell asleep! Perhaps I should be thankful and happy she did not try and drive home sleepy. On the other hand, during that point of our lives we where going through a "rocky" part of our marriage. The guy she is friends with is as she put it "attractive" but a shoulder to cry on during our rocky times and nothing else ( I have never met him or many of her friends. My mind can think up so many porno type scenarios that could have taken place...... But there is no proof. I have chosen to forget it, and just go on. I realize that you guys or girls can't speak for everyone, but I wanted to get a general feel for how people especially women feel about the boundaries in a relation ship.


well smokey, I'll tell ya from experience, you don't think it's happening, but more than likely it is. I was like you, and chose to just overlook when those things happened when my (now ex) wife would "fall asleep" at her male buddies house............yeah

she ended up marrying the chode, so take it as a warning, don't let that schit go on if you want to keep her


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## Squirrel Girl (Jun 28, 2004)

Let's see. I participate in male-oriented sports. I am employeed in a traditionally male-dominated field. I have tons of male (married) friends. I am single.

Bob--nope, he'd turn me down if I hit on him. He's pretty faithful to his wife.
Larry--thinks about sex as much as anyone else, might like to contemplate it. Would never *seriously* contemplate it. Would NEVER do it.
Frank--one of my best friends to TALK about sex with. He'd never cheat (at least not with me!) ;-)
Tom--impossible, he'd never cheat.
Ted--impossible, he'd never cheat.
Brandon--might, but knows he can't.
Jason--no sign of any interest, just a neato person.
Mike--has flirted, but would NEVER cheat.

(I made up the names to protect the innocent)

I'd say most of the married guys I'm close friends with like me, a few might even be a little attracted to me. None of them would cheat because they're not that type of guy. Suits me quite nicely. I'm happy to know there are guys who are committed to their wives.

In *my* circle of friends and subculture members, it would not cause most people to bat an eye, if a woman stayed overnight at a man's house. I've shared a tent with quite a few different guys and nothing happened.

It all comes down to trust. If your not the kind of person to trust your female partner, and if she's an untrustworthy sort, well, that a difficult, unfortunate circumstance. But for LOTS of guys, they're upstanding guys who just aren't interested in cheating, even if some are.

As far as differing interests, that can be a *good* thing. I had a long term relationship with a guy with a very specific set of interests that we shared. After a while, we had nothing to talk about. I already *knew* everything he had to say. We also got into competition regarding our shared activities and that was bad, too.

I've observed many men who actually realize their wives make them better people by moderating their piggish natures.

Good luck!


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## fireboy (Jan 12, 2004)

As a male with female riding buddies, here's my view. My wife rides, but not at the level I chose to ride. She's more of a fire road / rails to trails type, while I'm a singletrack nut. We ride together, but when it's time to hit the narrow, techy stuff, she's OUT. There are female members of our local club that have schedules that better mesh with my goofy work schedule, and can ride during weekdays, etc. My wife is not threatened by these ladies. Yes, they are attractive women, as is my wife. If I were not in a committed relationship, would I pursue getting to know these women better? Couldn't deny it. But my wife and I have been in a committed, trusting relationship for over 14 years now, and we know that risking all we have worked to establish for a "fling" or just a "possibility" of another relationship is foolish and unfair to one another. I believe that if either one of us were unhappy in the relationship, we'd discuss it together, long BEFORE any unfaithfulness was a concern. I couldn't imagine cheating. I made a promise and would never seek a physical relationship with another in order as an escape from problems in my marriage. That just heaps problems on top of problems...my wife would know my unhappiness LONG before I started "trolling for chicks". So, I'd expect to know this of her as well....long before she started "trolling for dicks".


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## AliceT55 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Women lie and cheat as much as men do*

Many women feel the need to be with someone, just not to be alone in life. I have heard many other women say that they don't wnat to grow alone, but that they don't need a man in their life. They lie , becuase many of them will live with a guy even if it is not the perfect union. _Some are so deperate that they have even been engaged to their STEP-BROTHER._ The show deperate housewives is not far from the truth about women, it is a sad statement.

I truely hate when my female friends say they are strong and independent and can survive alone, then next thing you know they are living with a guy, and they say it is love, but really it is that they fear being alone and can't truely afford to pay their own way through life, a FREE-LOADER AT 50!!!

*Just ask one of the posters in this discussion, she did all of this and more. She can lie as well as any guy, maybe even better then a guy, which is sad*

I think the movie "When Harry Met Sally" says half of it, because it is not only the men, but the women that think that way too.


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*Ok*

Who was it and what was the deal... Spill the beans on who hit the jackpot and freeloaded..

Is that sorta like freeriding?


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## Moo Shoo Pork (Jan 17, 2004)

*Hey Smokey*



SMOKEY said:


> Thanks. Things have gotten a bit better overall. We spoke and I made myself clear of the things I expected from a wife. I gave her "the rules" and she responded with a bit of an attitude but, I think she got the message when I told her I was "out of here" if she ever tries to pull any crap like that again. For now all I can really do is try and trust her again and stop my paranoid, jealous, insecure thoughts from churning in my head. We both need to grow up a bunch but, imo, she has a little more work ahead of her if she wants to stay with me.


Hey Smokey,

Glad to here things ar getting better. However, marriage is a pretty serious commitment. There is nothing wrong with both of you having different interests and beliefs. With that being said, you definitely need some things in common for it to work. Weather it be hobbies, religion, beliefs, etc. Part if it is as you alluded does come with age. I didn't get married until I was almost 30. And, boy am I glad I didn't Before then, I was having too much fun being single. And, at the same time I really started understanding what I wanted in a long term relationship. Seven years later, I know I am the happiest man out of all my married friends. Especially, with the guys who go married in there early 20s. I'm not saying that getting married earlier won't work. It can, but from what I have seen it, the odds are not good.

As far as having female friends, I have a bunch of them. All of them I have met from work. Sure, many if there are downright gorgeous. But, the great thing is they really good friends and they getting along/hangout with my wife. I have even become really good friends with some of wife's friends as well as my wife getting along with all of buds. I think the biggest thing is that you and your wife feel scure with yourselves. And, as someone else had posted, I only talk about the intimate stuff with me wife. Good Luck, Man


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## zenmonkey (Nov 21, 2004)

Way to go MS Pork - reply to a 4+ month old advice thread. 

What did you do? Search 'sex'?


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## Moo Shoo Pork (Jan 17, 2004)

*Lol*



zenmonkey said:


> Way to go MS Pork - reply to a 4+ month old advice thread.
> 
> What did you do? Search 'sex'?


Holy Smokes, I didn't even realize the thread was that old. LOL, the last thing I would search for on this forum is "sex."


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## AliceT55 (Apr 20, 2005)

*Look to the past?*



Dude said:


> Who was it and what was the deal... Spill the beans on who hit the jackpot and freeloaded..
> 
> Is that sorta like freeriding?


Perhaps you are the guy she has moved in with, watch your back and search the old postings. She has also failed at marriage multiple times so I heard. If you look through the postings she is one of the many women that says that guys and girls can be non-sexual. There is always sexual tension from one sex or the other. She knows this and hides behind her facade of denial.


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## Trevor! (Dec 23, 2003)

Moo Shoo Pork said:


> Holy Smokes, I didn't even realize the thread was that old. LOL, the last thing I would search for on this forum is "sex."


I search for the word 'sex' alot on MTBR but never find much. You should search 'porn' - you'd be surprised the explicit stuff that shows up!!!


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## Dude (Jan 12, 2004)

*Nope not me*



AliceT55 said:


> Perhaps you are the guy she has moved in with, watch your back and search the old postings. She has also failed at marriage multiple times so I heard. If you look through the postings she is one of the many women that says that guys and girls can be non-sexual. There is always sexual tension from one sex or the other. She knows this and hides behind her facade of denial.


Hey Alice,

It's not me that is "fursure"... I gave up on charity work along time ago.. Besides I think Mrs. Dude would have something to say about me moving in/out.... "Something like, what took you so long"... I can't be stabbed in the back anymore. Now that I'm older I thought it was great that I seemed to have more patience. Turns out I just don't give a 5hit.

-Dude


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

AliceT55 said:


> If you look through the postings she is one of the many women that says that guys and girls can be non-sexual. There is always sexual tension from one sex or the other. She knows this and hides behind her facade of denial.


You are seriously telling me you can't be around ANY man without sexual tension? Must be tough functioning in day to day life!


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## Bikergal (Oct 10, 2005)

SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


I work closely with two men in my office, both of which I have done things with outside of work, one of the guys I have had over to my house for parties and such. Am I attracted to either one of these guys GOD NO!!! 
I also have a friend whom being a man I have know for years. Now I will be the first to say that he has attempted many of times to get me to see him, but I'm not interested in him in that matter. He clearly knows this and respects my decision. 
Now being a chick biker I have met many men some whom are married and some who are not, some of these men I am friends with. So yes I think its possible. I do think that you just have to make it clear to the other side so things don't get confusing down the road.

Just my two cents!!!


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## dirtdonk (Jan 31, 2004)

catzilla said:


> Nope. It's totally %100 across the board impossible.
> 
> Hell, I can't even buy a gallon of milk without giving the male cashier a nobber.


just innocently wondering-- ahh, where do you buy your milk?


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*True That!!!!!!!!*



AliceT55 said:


> Many women feel the need to be with someone, just not to be alone in life. I have heard many other women say that they don't wnat to grow alone, but that they don't need a man in their life. They lie , becuase many of them will live with a guy even if it is not the perfect union. _Some are so deperate that they have even been engaged to their STEP-BROTHER._ The show deperate housewives is not far from the truth about women, it is a sad statement.
> 
> I truely hate when my female friends say they are strong and independent and can survive alone, then next thing you know they are living with a guy, and they say it is love, but really it is that they fear being alone and can't truely afford to pay their own way through life, a FREE-LOADER AT 50!!!
> 
> ...


man oh man, truer words were never spoken. spending my 20's and early 30's single and free in NYC has taught me how right you are. very few men can scheme and plot like a woman. me and my freinds promoted parties and social functions for the "professional set" for over 10yrs. during that time ive seen women's creativity first hand. Me and many of my buddies slept with more 'attached women' than i care to mention. they all found a way to rationalize that it was "his fault" that they were cheating. women we knew that were cheated on also felt it was "his fault" that he cheated and didnt appreciate the most wonderful woman in the world-her. surely, he would live to regret it.
many women will officially "date" a guy with money while getting pounded out by some guy they find "sexy"(insert me or one of my buddies here). many would even have the nerve to expect you to be "faithful" to them. i kid you not.
during that time i met a lot of great young ladies also, so it wasnt all craziness, but most guy's imho, dont have a clue as to what some women are capable of. i know, i had a front row seat for many years.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

I think the operative word above is "SOME" women. Ditto men- SOME men are capable of that much and more. You and your buddies "slept with attached women." I wouldn't want to date a guy who was this indiscriminate.

Plus, if you're partying with a bunch of twentysomething NYC singles all the time, that's a very narrow and distorted population sample. Same goes for Desperate Housewives and Sex and the City- those are campy, fantasy TV shows. A bit of difficult reality mixed in with a big dollop of drama, spiced up with glamour and silliness. Who's gonna tune into a show called "Happy Boring Married Couples"??  zzzzzzzzzzzzz....................


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## smw (Jun 22, 2005)

Smokey, I hate giving relationship advice. However I do know one thing, and that is, if the trust is gone from the relationship/marriage, then there is really no marriage. I cant be with someone I dont trust. Respect yourself and be true to yourself. Only you and her really know.
Good Luck to You
Sean


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

*i only scratched the surface...*



Christine said:


> I think the operative word above is "SOME" women. Ditto men- SOME men are capable of that much and more. You and your buddies "slept with attached women." I wouldn't want to date a guy who was this indiscriminate.
> 
> Plus, if you're partying with a bunch of twentysomething NYC singles all the time, that's a very narrow and distorted population sample. Same goes for Desperate Housewives and Sex and the City- those are campy, fantasy TV shows. A bit of difficult reality mixed in with a big dollop of drama, spiced up with glamour and silliness. Who's gonna tune into a show called "Happy Boring Married Couples"??  zzzzzzzzzzzzz....................


of what ive seen. also the crowds are typically from 24-38 yrs old, not only "twenty somethings". i didnt even get into the suburban women's game playing (i live on long island), all the rich little white women that sneek out to clubs were african american and latino guys hang out, chase guys that they wouldnt talk to one the street, and go back to their little world where no one would ever dream of what they were doing last night. your talking tv, im talking life. i could go on and on, leaving no ethicnic group or economic class out. we ran through the buroughs of ny and the suburbs, unlike most people who live their lives in a little circle. only associating with people who look and think like them. your right, me and my freinds were wrong for sleeping with attached women, most of us have grown up (im married now to an awesome woman) but some still cannot resist the lure of easy sex, and it is that easy. again, im not saying every woman is living foul, but its much worse than you and many others realize. your a woman, tell me, who keeps secrets better than you guy's?. you wont even tell your girlfreinds/sisters/moms your indescretions a lot of times. again, i know this from experience, not tv or what someone told me.


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## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

edouble said:


> of what ive seen. also the crowds are typically from 24-38 yrs old, not only "twenty somethings". i didnt even get into the suburban women's game playing (i live on long island), all the rich little white women that sneek out to clubs were african american and latino guys hang out, chase guys that they wouldnt talk to one the street, and go back to their little world where no one would ever dream of what they were doing last night. your talking tv, im talking life. i could go on and on, leaving no ethicnic group or economic class out. we ran through the buroughs of ny and the suburbs, unlike most people who live their lives in a little circle. only associating with people who look and think like them. your right, me and my freinds were wrong for sleeping with attached women, most of us have grown up (im married now to an awesome woman) but some still cannot resist the lure of easy sex, and it is that easy. again, im not saying every woman is living foul, but its much worse than you and many others realize. your a woman, tell me, who keeps secrets better than you guy's?. you wont even tell your girlfreinds/sisters/moms your indescretions a lot of times. again, i know this from experience, not tv or what someone told me.


Just because you lived this way and associated with these people don't mean the rest of us do (or ever did). This sounds suspiciously like you are trying to defend your own indescretions by saying "nearly everyone is doing it". Well, we're not. I think you have a perception that so many more people do because you were seeking them out and going to the places they would go. That's not a normal slice of the population.


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## Christine (Feb 11, 2004)

_all the rich little white women that sneek out to clubs were african american and latino guys hang out, chase guys that they wouldnt talk to one the street, and go back to their little world where no one would ever dream of what they were doing last night. your talking tv, im talking life. _

Yeah, but life in the bars and clubs. It's a narrow segment of the population. I'm single and I'm not so crazy about those places except to hang out with friends.

_ we ran through the buroughs of ny and the suburbs, unlike most people who live their lives in a little circle. only associating with people who look and think like them._

If that's what you're looking for, of course you'll find it. I'm sure people have affairs within their church groups, too.

_ your right, me and my freinds were wrong for sleeping with attached women, most of us have grown up (im married now to an awesome woman) but some still cannot resist the lure of easy sex, and it is that easy. _

When you get married, you'll still flirt with and have crushes on and be attracted to other people. Cheating can be easy. But you have to resist temptation and avoid certain situations. That's one reason they say "marriage is work." Takes sacrifice. Happily married people understand it's for the long haul and worth working on.

_again, im not saying every woman is living foul, but its much worse than you and many others realize. your a woman, tell me, who keeps secrets better than you guy's?. you wont even tell your girlfreinds/sisters/moms your indescretions a lot of times. again, i know this from experience, not tv or what someone told me. _

Much worse? It's an institution with a 55% or so failure rate, with the remaining 45% not necessarily being perfect or happy. People don't harbor illusions about it, not unless they're very young and haven't dated much yet.

My married/attached girlfriends are very frank about such things, more so than I ever expected. Sometimes they're tempted, as are their husbands, but they also know better than to screw up a good thing.

The dating experiences I tell my friends about ARE kept secret from my mother and aunts b/c every guy I mention suddenly comes up in every conversation after that as potential husband material  My mother was still asking me about an ex-BF three years after we stopped dating for crying out loud. "I know you broke up, but don't you ever see him?"


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## F5000sl (Aug 8, 2003)

Ha, I feel funny answering in the ladies forums, it's a first.
I saw the topic and was curious what' s up. 

Quick History.
My girlfriend and I have been dating for about 16yrs now and we love it. 
People ask, "why aren't you married?", we simply don't find the need to be. 
We feel that we come home to each other every night because we want to, not because we have to. We are best friends & we do and want to do everything together. (Within reason)

Being female and not wanting or really liking kids has really kept her from having many close female friends once she hit the 30's.
And with sports like riding that is a predominantly male sport, (but then again aren't most?)
she has plenty of eye-candy and opportunity for getting to know other men.
Do I worry? No!
We both talk constantly, about the good, the bad, and the ugly. We don't knock the other persons opinions, nor do we let it get us down. It's about getting it out in the pen and dealing with it. More times than not just talking about it gets you over it. Being that we are best friends and we do share just about everything, we need to take some extra time on some conversation to understand where the other is coming from. This usually becomes the larger topic then the initial subject too. 
We always joke about the opposite sex, look, stare, admire, etc.
But we take anything that comes from those feelings and incorporate that into our own lives. No different then admiring a beautiful spring day and wanting to go out and ride. 
We take the feelings that we gets from others and use it to keep our relationship strong and new.
I think a key to many people's issues in relationships are that we forget that every relationship starts with those wonderful feelings of euphoria. The spark, the newness, the learning about the other person. 
If you think about it like that, you will realize that with just a tiny amount of effort you can keep those same feeling alive with your current partner.
We don't stop growing or changing just because we are together. I am or she is always asking me what is on my mind or what's new. 
We are glad to share our thoughts and it keeps us from becoming stagnant.

Don't get me wrong, I meet plenty of females that I think would be great to know better if I had not significant other, but I do have someone and by choice and I am happy about that. So it really never comes into play. Rather I use those feelings to create some good friendships. 

And sure, there is lust, I find other women are attractive, nature made us all that way; but I also found that if I take a moment a day to look at my girlfriend with the same curiosity (someone I have not met before), I instantly feel that spark that has keep me coming back.

In the end, talk, share, & love, it will all work out.
But it does take two without a doubt.

The short, Yup, guys and gals can be friends only.

Sorry for the long babble, guys can have some insite I think and I wanted to share some of mine.


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## mtbrae (Oct 11, 2005)

*I agree*



Christine said:


> "When she called my GF happened to be right there and she heard her voice. My GF was P!SSED off and we had a fight over it. I had to call her back, explain that I thought she was a he and that my GF wasn't cool with that."
> 
> Stuff like this makes me crazy. It's like being punished for being a female mtb'er. Sometimes women don't seem to understand that THEY are hindering the concept of equality for other women!
> 
> Now, if this person was an ex-GF or something along those lines- if your GF had a *reason* to think she was a threat, that's one thing. But a woman isn't a threat just b/c she's a woman! Grrrrr.


Before I started mtb-ing my bf rode with girls that i had not ever met. In fact a couple of weeks ago - now two years later - I met a girl at a race somewhat "accidently". I was never insecure over the fact of him riding with other girls.

:


> Stuff like this makes me crazy. It's like being punished for being a female mtb'er. Sometimes women don't seem to understand that THEY are hindering the concept of equality for other women! "


maybe I am way off here but I feel that the purpose of womens Lib was not to have yet another group decide what is "appropriate, acceptable and/or comfortable" for me


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## noslogan (Jan 21, 2004)

*I am non-sexual with everyone*

Except for my wife.

Although, we do hug each other at the bike shop. Great place for beers and hugs.


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## lightbright84 (Dec 3, 2005)

I think it really depends on the person, for sure.


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## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

SMOKEY said:


> Hi, I apologize for being off the topic of mtb's. But, I would like to hear the opinions of women on this one.
> 
> Is it possible for a married woman to have a male friend or friends that she is not interested in sleeping with? What are the boundaries for relationships with the opposite sex other than your husband or wife.
> 
> The reason I did not ask about men is because I am assuming that a majority of men with girl-friends may have intentions already to get them in bed. (not all men, but I'm sure there's lots) I may be naive in saying this but, I am more trusting in women than the typical "horny" man. I still like to believe that there is still an innocence in women.


It's not innocence, dude. We're just pickier.

If women couldn't have non-sexual guy friends, I'd either have no friends, or a whole lot of sex. ;^P Most of my friends are guys, and no, I don't sleep with any of them. I don't lust after them, either. In fact, some it would make me do the heebie-jeebie dance to see naked, but they're still good people and I enjoy their company (as long as they're dressed).

If you recognize that humans are animals, then look at how the rest of the animal population works. Males go after any available female. It's the females that pick and choose the male most likely to possess good genes to propagate the species. Humans are supposed to be "civilized" and do this by dating rather than by puffing out their chest, doing bizarre dances or waving tail feathers. Oh, wait, maybe there's not much difference there.......

Kathy ;^P


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