# what I would want in an eMTB



## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

1) not expensive. I'm poor. Willing to partially build or convert but I'm not a great mechanic so...the less I do the better lol
2) durable. Able to handle short (1 mile) very steep and rough rocky high elevation mountain roads with some help from me (to get to my lookout)
3) 26 inch fat tire.
4) functional for actual peddling on more moderate and decent forest/mountain roads.
5) chargeable on a 300 watt solar without running it down. I wouldn't be riding more than 10-15 miles and not every day
6) very reliable. I don't want to have to walk 5 miles


I've never ridden an ebike or a fat tire, so I have no idea what's possible. I don't care about speed, it mostly just has to help me get me back up the hill.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

Very doable but it depends on your answer to number 1


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

PierreR said:


> Very doable but it depends on your answer to number 1


Whats the question? How much can I spend? Right now, nothing. But over the next 8-10 months before I'd need it I could scratch together enough for a bike or the makings of a bike that isn't expensive. And I overstate my mechanical ineptitude but I get bored and impatient quickly. I can screw and bolt things together but I'm not gonna be brazing, machining or building frames.


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## SkiTalk'er (Jun 26, 2021)

Not unlike cars, you want fast, reliable an cheap. But in reality, you only get to choose two.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

I'm flexible on the fat tire too. I just think it would be handy on the really rough and rocky steep stretch.


SkiTalk'er said:


> Not unlike cars, you want fast, reliable an cheap. But in reality, you only get to choose two.


Read my post again. You didn't make it to the last line I guess.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Forget #3 
#5 recharging via solar panel no idea, probably a way $$$
everything else can be done with a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit 

I have seen the hub motors boil the grease out of the bearings on short steep hill climbs.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Forget #3
> #5 recharging via solar panel no idea, probably a way $$$
> everything else can be done with a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit
> 
> I have seen the hub motors boil the grease out of the bearings on short steep hill climbs.


Well I don't know if I need fat tires, but I would like 26 inch. I just think fat tires might help on very rough steep rocky stretches but if I have enough power to keep speed up I might not need em. Its virtually impossible for me to pedal it because I can't keep my speed up while I navigate jagged loose rocks and holes. TBH the rest of the time I don't need or want fatties.


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

a battery that lasts forever


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

OldBlue950 said:


> Well I don't know if I need fat tires, but I would like 26 inch. I just think fat tires might help on very rough steep rocky stretches but if I have enough power to keep speed up I might not need em. Its virtually impossible for me to pedal it because I can't keep my speed up while I navigate jagged loose rocks and holes. TBH the rest of the time I don't need or want fatties.


27.5 or 29" just for the availability of tyres, not everyone likes 29'ers but they do roll over things better than everything except true fat bike tyres(4-5" x26") but fat bikes have plenty of drawbacks(I still like them) with a bouncy feeling ride, poor ability in rocky terrain(they ping off rocks), lots of drag on hard-packed surfaces, I personally found them rubbish in mud(others love them for that)


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

OldBlue950 said:


> Whats the question? How much can I spend? Right now, nothing. But over the next 8-10 months before I'd need it I could scratch together enough for a bike or the makings of a bike that isn't expensive. And I overstate my mechanical ineptitude but I get bored and impatient quickly. I can screw and bolt things together but I'm not gonna be brazing, machining or building frames.


That does not answer my question so I will go on anyway. Your 1 and 2 are totally incompatible with one another. Cheap for both of those is about $3,500 DIY or about $4,500 e bike off the shelf. If you already have a decent bike to convert that is "reliable" on the terrain you specified then the price can drop to $1,000 or so.
Now to me, reliable means that the bike will take that pounding and last at least 6,000 to 9,000 miles before you are dumping money into it for major repairs.
A Walmart bike is cheap but not reliable to last 500 miles on the terrain you specified. 
Get rid of number 2 and 6 of your wants and you can buy something off the shelf that will last for that long for under $2,000.
Your definition of reliable may differ greatly from mine.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

I like my mid-drive emtb, since it retains the pedaling experience (with "world cup legs"), thanks to the torque sensor and programming in the firmware/software. It doesn't have issues finding its "sweet spot" (optimal power band) on rolling terrain, since I can shift to the appropiate gear.

If you get an inexpensive ebike, one with a hub motor, it will feel cheap and offer more of a motor vehicle experience. Hub motor ebikes are super primitive compared to modern mid-drive ones. If you get one with a throttle, it disqualifies it from a lot of places that pedal bicycles are allowed to go. Hub motors can get bogged down and overheat on hills--their efficiency is tied to the RPM of the wheel itself, meaning that it works best at a certain speed range.

The experience of a very low power motor vehicle is awful. You will get the urge for more power, and that kind of motorhead mentally is unwelcome by many cyclists. You will likely feel that a 750W hub motor doesn't feel nearly as powerful as a 250W mid-drive. Think of the experience of an auto-transmission car with weak motor, maybe loaded with a few adults, and trying to drive it up a mountain road...

There's also the issue of safety. Cheap batteries have been known to be a fire hazard. If you try to isolate this risk by keeping it outdoors, then moisture, dirt, and fluctuating temps become an issue. Better quality stuff is more resistant to this kind of stuff. They're made to be less hassle for the average person.

In short, it takes an extremely well-trained eye to pick out a gem from the myriad of cheap options out there. Some very well-experienced mechanically-inclined people might be able to cope with some niggles, especially if they expect them and have factored in the repair costs in the total price. IMO, someone clueless is just gonna frustrate themselves by going cheap. With my current experience level, I want to spend even more on my next emtb, since my current one has so many shortcomings. My current one retails for $4k (not counting any upgrades), and the one I'm looking at is $6300 USD.


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## Juansan (Dec 30, 2020)

One without a motor.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Juansan said:


> One without a motor.


One of those ones that runs on donuts and burritos. I hear those are cheap _and _dependable.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

How about lighter weight? My wife has an e bike that is 50 pounds. That’s a heavy bike.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

PierreR said:


> That does not answer my question so I will go on anyway.


You didn't ask a question. 




> Your 1 and 2 are totally incompatible with one another. Cheap for both of those is about $3,500 DIY or about $4,500 e bike off the shelf. If you already have a decent bike to convert that is "reliable" on the terrain you specified then the price can drop to $1,000 or so.


I only said "not expensive." I don't want anything that is "cheap" or "crappy" lol.



> Now to me, reliable means that the bike will take that pounding and last at least 6,000 to 9,000 miles before you are dumping money into it for major repairs.


For me, reliable means getting up and down that severely steep and rocky 1 mile stretch of high elevation road about 100 times a year without breaking down on the wrong end of that mile. With care and maintenance of course. So 200 rough, steep, loose-rocky miles per year. hopefully for a couple years.



> Get rid of number 2 and 6


I can't do that, because I don't want to be stuck walking that uphill mile pushing a bike with hip, knee and foot problems. If I can't get reliable and durable enough for the job, I just don't get anything. Obviously even the most expensive bike isn't 100% durable and reliable but there's (hopefully) a reasonable compromise somewhere between cheap and expensive.




FortOrdMTB said:


> How about lighter weight? My wife has an e bike that is 50 pounds. That’s a heavy bike.


Light would be nice, but I don't want to get too picky either. Obviously I won't get everything I want without more money than I have.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

delete


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

Here is my want list:
1. Integrated gearbox into the motor 
2. NO grip shift
2. Removable battery 700wh or more 
3. 29er and 160mm travel or more
4. High pivot or “6-bar” suspension design
5. Availability. I don’t want to wait 12 months after ordering the bike to actually get it.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

Wrong thread, sorry amigo.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

OldBlue950 said:


> You didn't ask a question.
> I only said "not expensive." I don't want anything that is "cheap" or "crappy" lol..


 I cannot give you decent advice because you are not at all serious about this. You keep repeating "not expensive" but not expensive is meaningless to me. It means something to you but not to me. I have a list of possible bikes but it does not do any good to tell you about them because you are not serious about giving anything but wildly vague sht. 
Cheap? What the hell is that $200, $2,000, $20,000? I asked you that question. 
What the hell is steep 6%, 8%, 12%,20% I cannot offer a suggestion without that information. The steeper the climb the fewer bikes I would suggest. 

At the moment, I don't think you have a grip on reality. You say you have hip, knee and foot problems and cannot presently walk up yet you want to ride it. That screams proprioception issues to me. You said it's loose and rocky. Do you realize you will fall hard riding down the hill a couple of times a year. Are you prepared for that?

Riding uphill is easy on an e bike with the right stuff. Ridding downhill on the terrain you describe, is where is reliability issues are


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

PierreR said:


> I cannot give you decent advice because you are not at all serious about this.


I'm very serious. I said I have no money to spend now, and don't know how much I will be able to scrape together in the next 8-10 months. I do know I will never, ever, as long as I live, spend more than $1500 on a bike though unless its a motorcycle. So you can use that as your top end figure. But I'd just as soon buy something less expensive sooner, and upgrade any weak parts before putting it to the real test later on. But whatever works.



> At the moment, I don't think you have a grip on reality.


 Lol. Ok. Whatever.



> You say you have hip, knee and foot problems and cannot presently walk up yet you want to ride it. That screams proprioception issues to me. You said it's loose and rocky. Do you realize you will fall hard riding down the hill a couple of times a year. Are you prepared for that?


I don't mind. I have excellent balance and I know how to fall. I just don't want to fall the wrong way where the road crosses a rockslide and it drops off a loooong way lol.

I have no proprioception issues. I've ridden this piece of road on my 20 year old Stumpy, but only once. Going down was gravy, compared to getting back up. It's probably 20% grade overall, with some short steeper parts. I did a lot of walking on the uphill, because I could not maintain enough speed on the roughest parts to stay on the bike. Its not that I can't walk that stretch if I have to, its that I don't want to. That's what the ebike is for.



> Riding uphill is easy on an e bike with the right stuff. Ridding downhill on the terrain you describe, is where is reliability issues are.


That's what I need, "the right stuff" to get up, without getting more than I need or want. It will take more abuse on the downhill I'm sure, but there is no hurry and no need for speed. Its a way to get from Point A to Point B, with Point B being where I can ride much less extreme forest roads.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

OldBlue950 said:


> I'm very serious. I said I have no money to spend now, and don't know how much I will be able to scrape together in the next 8-10 months. I do know I will never, ever, as long as I live, *spend more than $1500 on a bike *though unless its a motorcycle. So you can use that as your top end figure. But I'd just as soon buy something less expensive sooner, and upgrade any weak parts before putting it to the real test later on. But whatever works.
> 
> Lol. Ok. Whatever.
> 
> ...


that one highlighted part....... forget Ebikes 

Its a game of paying lots to get something remotely useable and most (even the large manufacturers) won't last all that long in time or distance(bicycle lifetimes are rubbish for Ebikes) 


Don't get me wrong I like Ebikes but they are expensive to get anything remotely as good off-road as my current bikes and then there's is the question of how long will it last(maintenance,parts availability etc)


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

OldBlue950 said:


> I'm very serious. I said I have no money to spend now, and don't know how much I will be able to scrape together in the next 8-10 months. I do know I will never, ever, as long as I live, spend more than $1500 on a bike though unless its a motorcycle. So you can use that as your top end figure. But I'd just as soon buy something less expensive sooner, and upgrade any weak parts before putting it to the real test later on. But whatever works.
> 
> Lol. Ok. Whatever.
> 
> ...


You lost me at $1500. That will not get you an ebike I’d be comfortable riding on trails. Heck, that barely gets you a normal used budget mountain bike.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

Its natural that people who are used to blowing big money on things believe you need to blow big money on things. But I've never spent more than $5500 on a car in my life, I've only bought 3 in the last 25 years, and I've probably driven them over a million miles with few major repairs. I've also never spent more than $800 on a bike in that same period, and have had only 3 bikes (not counting $15 auction finds, like my username bike), two of which I still ride regularly and are perfectly good.

It may take outside the box thinking, the willingness to buy used or upgrade a less expensive bike, or the willingness to convert an existing bike. But I am pretty sure it can be done. There is no need to go fast down the mountain, I can baby it down, and that's where most of the wear and tear will occur. I could be wrong but I think its doable for even less than $1500.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

See how easy you make it when you give numbers. 20% average is over 1,000 feet of climbing in one mile. I would not be interested in doing that climb 100 days a year. That is a new set of brakes every week. That is well into the absurd climbing for a one mile stretch. $1,500 is your way outside budget.
I have not got any suggestions for you for e bikes at all. A strong dirt bike or a cheap 4 wheeler would be a much better option in the long run.
If you were much more mechanically inclined, I could make suggestions.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Ball On A Budget: Walmart’s New Hyper E-Ride Electric Bike


Walmart has introduced its entry into the electric MTB segment with the Hyper E-Ride. At just $1,500, it costs a fraction of other budget e-bikes in the market.




insideevs.com





Mid-drive at the $1500 price point is unheard of. Hub drive motors are super primitive dinosaurs compared to even this, I imagine. The modern mid-drive motor and battery on my current emtb alone costs more than $1500, but here's a complete bike.

There's just nothing that fits your checklist unless you shop one of those junky chinese rebrands, like Lectric and Radpower, or whatever. Those are like the ebike equivalent of Walmart beach cruisers.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

OldBlue950 said:


> Its natural that people who are used to blowing big money on things believe you need to blow big money on things. But I've never spent more than $5500 on a car in my life, I've only bought 3 in the last 25 years, and I've probably driven them over a million miles with few major repairs. I've also never spent more than $800 on a bike in that same period, and have had only 3 bikes (not counting $15 auction finds, like my username bike), two of which I still ride regularly and are perfectly good.
> 
> It may take outside the box thinking, the willingness to buy used or upgrade a less expensive bike, or the willingness to convert an existing bike. But I am pretty sure it can be done. There is no need to go fast down the mountain, I can baby it down, and that's where most of the wear and tear will occur. I could be wrong but I think its doable for even less than $1500.


Nobody is blowing money on bikes here. Sounds like you are frugal person, just like myself. I drive a 25 year old 4Runner I bought for $2000 with 300k miles. I work in a bicycle shop so I'm familiar with most every ebike system available, and even with an employee discount, there is no way nor will there ever be a way I can get a functional and safe ebike for $1500. 
This isn't an issue of them being too expensive, it's just a matter of you not wanting one enough to spend a reasonable amount. Nobody is going to go to the trouble of developing an ebike they would be selling at a loss for $1500.

Buy a motorcycle. I pick up decent used motorcycles for under $1500 all the time. Just got an XT225 for $800 a couple months ago.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

The whole point is to get where I can ride a bike and get exercise without driving. I don't think I want to carry a bicycle on my back on a motorcycle and there is no way to get an ATV there unless I drove it 30 miles from the nearest town. And I despise ATVs and would never buy one. But thanks.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> *This isn't an issue of them being too expensive*, it's just a matter of you not wanting one enough to spend a reasonable amount.


Its not a matter of want, its a matter of NOT HAVING. I don't and won't have thousands of dollars laying around for a bike even if I wanted to spend that much. It IS a matter of being *TOO EXPENSIVE *for me.

PS-one of my vehicles is a 25 year old 4Runner too.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

BTW, I probably overstated my frequency and mileage on the high side, just to be safe. In fact I would probably only ride it about 2-3 times a week and the season is only 3.5 to 4 months long. So maybe 30 to 50 trips up and down over 4 months. I don't know what they were riding but I saw a 75 year couple whiz up and down on ebikes and talked to them, they didn't mention any trouble at all and she was not an experienced rider. Its actually less harrowing on a 2 wheeler than a auto because you can choose your path and you're not wrestling 4000 lbs of gravity-driven steel. I was traumatized every time I drove that piece of road lol but the one time I rode it was no problem...except getting back up lol.

Maybe it can't be done, and maybe I just buy a cheapie and consider it disposable after each season or two.


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Comparing bikes to a car or motorcycle in price is kind of like comparing a smart phone, tablet or whatever to a desktop PC. There's extra cost in miniaturization and portability, and lots of compromises to improve energy efficiency.

You're comparing some old Compaq to some Macbooks or whatever, as a point to show how absurdly priced you think a Macbook is. You then show that you intend to shop in the Chromebook price point, believing that the mid-range price range is for the serious gamers/professionals, when those types actually shop even higher.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

Varaxis said:


> Comparing bikes to a car or motorcycle in price is kind of like comparing a smart phone, tablet or whatever to a desktop PC. There's extra cost in minaturization and portability, and lots of compromises to improve energy efficiency.
> 
> You're comparing some old Compaq to some Macbooks or whatever, as a point to show how absurdly priced you think a Macbook is. You then show that you intend to shop in the Chromebook price point, believing that the mid-range price range is for the serious gamers/professionals, when those types actually shop even higher.


Every day I explain to people that when I was a kid, phones were indestructible, always worked, impossible to lose and FREE. Now they are fragile, work intermittently and costly. However we would rather have the internet at our fingertips than have a phone bolted to the wall.
Same with e-bikes. They are amazing, but cost a lot to design and produce. Bicycles are much more simple and can use well established designs which keep the cost down.
To OP: Not only is a motorcycle cheaper, they are much more comfortable and easy to ride. I can ride down roads on my 17 year old R1200GS one handed while looking at the scenery at speeds that would have me white knuckling a good FS bicycle.
A Trail 90 is the perfect option for someone looking to tool around on dirt roads. Ebikes are really only practical for enhancing the mountain bike experience on mountain bike trails.
Saying you don't have the money therefore someone needs to sell you an ebike for $1500 is like the old people in my area that want an experienced carpenter to build them a deck but only willing to pay $10 an hour. The market is dictated by the willingness of someone to work that cheap. A $1500 durable and capable ebike won't happen.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

OldBlue950 said:


> I don't know what they were riding but I saw a 75 year couple whiz up and down on ebikes and talked to them, they didn't mention any trouble at all and she was not an experienced rider.


Probably Rad Power - you are a good fit it seems


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> Every day I explain to people that when I was a kid, phones were indestructible, always worked, impossible to lose and FREE. Now they are fragile, work intermittently and costly. However we would rather have the internet at our fingertips than have a phone bolted to the wall.
> Same with e-bikes. They are amazing, but cost a lot to design and produce. Bicycles are much more simple and can use well established designs which keep the cost down.
> To OP: Not only is a motorcycle cheaper, they are much more comfortable and easy to ride. I can ride down roads on my 17 year old R1200GS one handed while looking at the scenery at speeds that would have me white knuckling a good FS bicycle.
> A Trail 90 is the perfect option for someone looking to tool around on dirt roads. Ebikes are really only practical for enhancing the mountain bike experience on mountain bike trails.
> Saying you don't have the money therefore someone needs to sell you an ebike for $1500 is like the old people in my area that want an experienced carpenter to build them a deck but only willing to pay $10 an hour. The market is dictated by the willingness of someone to work that cheap. A $1500 durable and capable ebike won't happen.


You obviously haven't been paying attention. This isn't about comfort or tooling around. Its about getting exercise riding a bicycle when I'm living and working on top of a mountain all summer.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

The story so far:

OP: I'd like to do X. "I've never ridden an ebike or a fat tire, so I have no idea what's possible." (direct quote).
Everyone: not possible within your stated budget.
OP: I don't believe you, I'm sure it's possible.
Everyone:


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

nilswalk said:


> The story so far:
> 
> OP: I'd like to do X. "I've never ridden an ebike or a fat tire, so I have no idea what's possible." (direct quote).
> Everyone: not possible within your stated budget.
> ...



Fairly good assessment! The only part you left out is that I've seen old folks doing it and I know they didn't have top end bikes, (I think he had a conversion bike) and I'm doing my own reading and research behind the screen. I'm not making any assumptions that it can be done or that I can do it but I don't give up that easily either.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

OldBlue950 said:


> Fairly good assessment! The only part you left out is that I've seen old folks doing it and I know they didn't have top end bikes, (I think he had a conversion bike) and I'm doing my own reading and research behind the screen. I'm not making any assumptions that it can be done or that I can do it but I don't give up that easily either.


Well clearly the best plan of action is to come on a MTB enthusiast forum and slam everyone for wasting money on 'top end' bicycles while not listening to a single bit of advice. Literally everyone has told you already, it's not possible for $1500. You can get a RadPower for that much, but they don't come close to a mountain bike. They are just a toy. If a toy is what you want, there are plenty of forums for those.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> Well clearly the best plan of action is to come on a MTB enthusiast forum and slam everyone for wasting money on 'top end' bicycles while not listening to a single bit of advice. Literally everyone has told you already, it's not possible for $1500. You can get a RadPower for that much, but they don't come close to a mountain bike. They are just a toy. If a toy is what you want, there are plenty of forums for those.



$2000 or more is a lot to blow on a toy for most people, and bikes are all toys. Hardly inexpensive.

This thread took the typical path of internet threads. Someone comes along and rather than answering a question they ask a question of the first person, then everyone uses the answer they give to tell the original question asker what a stupid jackass they are.

Only one person attempted a constructive comment, saying



theMISSIONARY said:


> Forget #3
> #5 recharging via solar panel no idea, probably a way $$$
> everything else can be done with a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit
> 
> I have seen the hub motors boil the grease out of the bearings on short steep hill climbs.


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## BicyclesOnMain (Feb 27, 2021)

OldBlue950 said:


> $2000 or more is a lot to blow on a toy for most people, and bikes are all toys. Hardly inexpensive.


Wrong forum. I doubt half the folks on here have spent less than $2000 on a good usable mountain bike, and absolutely none have gotten an ebike for anything close to that.

I've done a few and worked on many Bafang conversions, while they do function, there's no way you could make it on any mountain bike trail I've ever seen with a motor hanging down like that. They are perfect for those that lost their license and need a way to get to the welfare office or see their parole officer though.

You want some helpful advice? Get a stationary bicycle for $20 at a thrift store, and then pick up an old Trail 90 for $500, that leaves you something for retirement.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

BicyclesOnMain said:


> Wrong forum. I doubt half the folks on here have spent less than $2000 on a good usable mountain bike, and absolutely none have gotten an ebike for anything close to that.
> 
> I've done a few and worked on many Bafang conversions, while they do function, there's no way you could make it on any mountain bike trail I've ever seen with a motor hanging down like that. They are perfect for those that lost their license and need a way to get to the welfare office or see their parole officer though.
> 
> You want some helpful advice? Get a stationary bicycle for $20 at a thrift store, and then pick up an old Trail 90 for $500, that leaves you something for retirement.


A cool option for you would be to find a used Heckler and do the Bafang conversion! Pay the kid at the bike shop to do the job on the side to keep it under $2,000.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

OldBlue950 said:


> This thread took the typical path of internet threads. Someone comes along and rather than answering a question they ask a question of the first person, then everyone uses the answer they give to tell the original question asker what a stupid jackass they are.


I don't see anyone calling you a "stupid jackass" or even implying it. What I see is you not getting the answer you were hoping to get and instead of accepting it and moving on your cognitive dissonance has kicked in and you've concluded that the problem must lie with the people giving you the answers.


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Forget #3
> #5 recharging via solar panel no idea, probably a way $$$
> everything else can be done with a Bafang mid-drive conversion kit
> 
> I have seen the hub motors boil the grease out of the bearings on short steep hill climbs.





nilswalk said:


> I don't see anyone calling you a "stupid jackass" or even implying it. What I see is you not getting the answer you were hoping to get and instead of accepting it and moving on your cognitive dissonance has kicked in and you've concluded that the problem must lie with the people giving you the answers.


I am not the one who insisted on a number. When indirectly implied that I had been asked a question, I replied _"Whats the question? How much can I spend? Right now, nothing. But over the next 8-10 months before I'd need it I could scratch together enough for a bike or the makings of a bike that isn't expensive."_

But that wasn't good enough for the interrogator, who implied great helpful suggestions would soon be forthcoming from his vast stores of knowledge, if only I would be more specific. 

So, against my better judgement, and having already answered his question with the greatest specificity I could, I pulled a number out of my ass and gave it to him. But I've been around the net long enough to know you never answer a question like that, and I got exactly what I expected: everyone takes a dump on it.

People didn't need a number to offer up their least expensive suggestions. Instead everyone focuses on a number that I was bullied into pulling out of my ass, after I already answered the question that was never asked. 

_*"Whats the question? How much can I spend? Right now, nothing. But over the next 8-10 months before I'd need it I could scratch together enough for a bike or the makings of a bike that isn't expensive."*_


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Get the Bafang conversion and mount it to your Stumpy. My father who is a very frugal person recently mounted a Bafang mid-drive conversion to his 35 yr old Marin Hardtail and is loving it. He's pretty handy mechanic and loves to tinker but he was also 88 when he got it and has probably put 1000 miles on it in the past 2 years (Yes, he's 90 now). I don't think he spent more than $900-1200.


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## nilswalk (Nov 26, 2014)

OldBlue950 said:


> I am not the one who insisted on a number. When indirectly implied that I had been asked a question, I replied _"Whats the question? How much can I spend? Right now, nothing. But over the next 8-10 months before I'd need it I could scratch together enough for a bike or the makings of a bike that isn't expensive."_
> 
> But that wasn't good enough for the interrogator, who implied great helpful suggestions would soon be forthcoming from his vast stores of knowledge, if only I would be more specific.
> 
> ...


Geez, how dare someone trying to answer your question ask you for a little more information about your requirements! The nerve of some people these days! 

As I said "the problem must lie with the people giving you the answers." They're just not behaving the way you want them to!


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

nilswalk said:


> Geez, how dare someone trying to answer your question ask you for a little more information about your requirements! The nerve of some people these days!
> 
> As I said "the problem must lie with the people giving you the answers." They're just not behaving the way you want them to!


Thank you for another helpful, constructive post on how to find what I'm looking for in an ebike.


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## Jack7782 (Jan 1, 2009)

OldBlue950 said:


> Thank you for another helpful, constructive post on how to find what I'm looking for in an ebike.


'You don't want to buy a Heckler' - you want to be a heckler lol


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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

KRob said:


> Get the Bafang conversion and mount it to your Stumpy. My father who is a very frugal person recently mounted a Bafang mid-drive conversion to his 35 yr old Marin Hardtail and is loving it. He's pretty handy mechanic and loves to tinker but he was also 88 when he got it and has probably put 1000 miles on it in the past 2 years (Yes, he's 90 now). I don't think he spent more than $900-1200.


Thank you the constructive feedback.

I'm definitely looking at those...if it can be done under the arbitrary, made-up price limit it will either be by converting a bike or finding an inexpensive one that with some upgrades will do the bare minimum if I'm careful. I see several possibilities in the category but won't subject myself to ridicule by mentioning any. I think a mistake people are making is that I want to go enduro ebiking just because there is a steep rough stretch of road I need to get through, and I don't. I don't even want an ebike, and I don't even want to go ebiking . I simply want something with enough power to help me get up the hill, that I will nurse gently through the roughest downhill parts so I can go _bicycling_.


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## kevjob (Jan 25, 2021)




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## OldBlue950 (Dec 1, 2016)

kevjob said:


>


Yeah haha, I found that video yesterday but he lost me at the $799 frame and the $3000+ price tag. It doesn't help that he looks insane too lol.


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## PierreR (May 17, 2012)

OldBlue950 said:


> I am not the one who insisted on a number. When indirectly implied that I had been asked a question, I replied _"Whats the question? How much can I spend? Right now, nothing. But over the next 8-10 months before I'd need it I could scratch together enough for a bike or the makings of a bike that isn't expensive."_
> 
> But that wasn't good enough for the interrogator, who implied great helpful suggestions would soon be forthcoming from his vast stores of knowledge, if only I would be more specific.
> 
> ...


I had the most sincere intentions in mind when I ask you for some kind of solid number. Inexpensive to one person is over budget to another. I had one specific bike in mind. A RAD Power Rad Rover at about $1,850. They hold up pretty good for the price and it looks like the bike would last some years because the mileage is low. The problem is the Rad Rover will climb something about 10-12% for a continuous mile without overheating and frying the motor. Hear again. If you are pulling the % grade out of you ass and it's closer to 10-12% you are leaving knowledge on the table. Two old people on cheap e bikes are not likely to have a lot of fun on an AVERAGE 20% grade a mile long.
Let me give you some more damned good advice. Go over to Grin Technologies and play on their simulator by changing the numbers and see for yourself what is possible. You will quickly find out what we are talking about. You can go advanced and change % grades and stuff, power and wind. You will quickly find out that small changes in real numbers make a huge difference in what is possible so yeah, real numbers count in the low wattage game of e bikes. You can find help on what to pick on the simulator or go to bike specs and plug the bike specs into the simulator.
Motor Simulator - Tools (ebikes.ca)


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