# Alfine Di2



## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Shimano Alfine Di2 ? First Pictures - BikeRadar

Shifting mechanism covered , non-exposed to elements and that doesn't rely on spring tension like derailers systems do : the solution to all the problems I have with my Shimano IGH :thumbsup:

(well maybe it's gonna have other problems but these are a major PITA for me )


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## yxan (Oct 3, 2008)

I must upgrade my alfine 11 with this


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Not clear yet if we will be able to buy just the electronic kit and retro-fit it to existing Alfine.
That would be great


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## john_dalhart (Nov 6, 2009)

One of the write-ups said the hub was a 'special Di2 model'. I don't know if that means you won't be able to retrofit or if it just means the hub has a 'Di2' sticker on it.


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## jasevr4 (Feb 23, 2005)

Anyone read any updates on the above? If it will be "retrofittable" or a specific Di2 version?


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## evrac (Sep 28, 2005)

My guess is that it will just replace the cassette joint, so hopefully retrofittable.


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## evrac (Sep 28, 2005)

Shimano SW-S705 Alfine Di2 right hand shift switch for flat bars, 11- / 8-speed - www.fatbirds.co.uk

More images have surfaced. The shifter appears to be 8 / 11 speed compatible.










Nice under-bar gear indicator:


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## irrah (Dec 18, 2008)

jasevr4 said:


> Anyone read any updates on the above? If it will be "retrofittable" or a specific Di2 version?


I'm afraid that you have to buy new hub, 11-speed Di2 hub type is SG-S705, 8-speed is SG-S505.

Alfine_Di2_electronic_specification_2012.pdf


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Looking at prices on ebikestop, looks like a full Alfine 8 setup would be shy of $600 once in stock. Would love to try one.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

It seems that Di2 is almost here! Bikeman has the QBP item listings for the hub, motor, and shifter.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

Anyone know of a date for the official release for Di2, hub, motor, shifter, etc.? It seems odd that Shimano does not even mention Alfine Di2 on their website.


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## sealcove (Apr 26, 2004)

Where's the battery in the final production model?


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

So I checked in with QBP on an inventory date and they thought that all of the parts, possibly 10 pieces in total, would be available by the end of October. Here is my speculation of the parts needed.

Hub ($625), motor ($140), small parts kit ($20), wire kit ($120), junction box ($40), indicator ($130), shifter ($140), battery holder ($139), battery ($95), and charger ($90), possible total ($1,540.00)?

Based on the currently available Di2 derailleur systems and prices listed on some sites, that should possibly be the 10 pieces required, less the rear sprocket.


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

I also inquired with Gates about the CenterTrack cogs since the clearance looked very narrow. Here is their reply:

"We are working on a special set of sprockets for this hub. The current Carbon Drive sprockets do not have clearance. We will try to have parts by the time the hub is available."


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

All of the Alfine Di2 components seem to be in stock now at QBP, so who is going to be first to test the metal?


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## t0pcat (May 7, 2012)

Any updates to this?


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## doperide (Jan 24, 2013)

*Update*

Check out Cyclepath in Portland, OR - they recently posted info about a DI2 Alfine Gates:thumbsup: build on their web site and facebook page. See: http://cyclepathnw.com/2013/01/recent-project-di2-alfine-gates-belt-drive-ventana-29er/


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## BikeSATORI (Mar 20, 2004)

kustomz said:


> So I checked in with QBP on an inventory date and they thought that all of the parts, possibly 10 pieces in total, would be available by the end of October. Here is my speculation of the parts needed.
> 
> Hub ($625), motor ($140), small parts kit ($20), wire kit ($120), junction box ($40), indicator ($130), shifter ($140), battery holder ($139), battery ($95), and charger ($90), possible total ($1,540.00)?
> 
> Based on the currently available Di2 derailleur systems and prices listed on some sites, that should possibly be the 10 pieces required, less the rear sprocket.


Is this listing of required parts accurate? 
Seriously, "battery holder" is $139, wtf is that? 
I was lightly considering trying this conversion on a singlespeeder I have, but that was before I did much research and thought it only required the hub (not seperate motor too...), shifter, indicator/battery... well, looks like I'm out.


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## 20.100 FR (Jan 13, 2004)

Here is a build from a Shimano employe in France


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## kustomz (Jan 6, 2004)

20.100 FR said:


> ]
> 
> Here is a build from a Shimano employe in France


I am wondering if they have a specific wire loom available yet for a routing similar to the layout pictured?


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## JUNGLEKID5 (May 1, 2006)

i wonder if the weight is the same as the non di2. and is this drop bar compatible?


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## h264 (Mar 27, 2009)

JUNGLEKID5 said:


> and is this drop bar compatible?


Very compatible 
Bike24 - Shimano Alfine Di2 ST-S705-R STI 8/11-speed - black
Bike24 - Shimano Alfine Di2 BL-S705-L Brake Lever - black


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

I've yet to see any hard evidence that the actual hub is different. On the Shimano Oz trade website, the Di2 bits are all there to see, but the only choices in hubs are 8 or 11 speed, black or silver and the number of spoke holes. There is NO separate listing for an "Alfine 11 Di2 hub,"although maybe all the parts aren't listed yet; there's no mention of wiring for instance.

What's listed as Di2 is:
MU-S705 ALFINE Di2 MOTOR UNIT, 11-SPEED
SW-S705 ALFINE Di2 SHIFTER, SHIFT SWITCH 11-SPEED RIGHT
SC-S705 ALFINE Di2 LED DISPLAY GEAR POSTION / BATTERY CHARGE
ST-S705 ALFINE Di2 SHIFT/BRAKE 11-SPEED ST-705R / BL-S705L BLACK for DROP BAR

...plus a few new non-turn washers, but since the older ones are no longer listed I suspect these are just a cosmetic update.

The price for any one of the bits isn't too scary, but when you add them up it gets rather worse, to the point that a Rohloff can be had for less - if $1540 is anywhere near being true at least. (Of course if you want a decent drop bar shifter, then Rohloff is probably out of contention, and the mechanical drop bar shifters for the Alfines will come in way cheaper than Di2.)

Given the problems some have reported here with the Alfine 11, versus the stellar reliability record for the Rohloff (and the extra 3 gears and wider range), I'm not sure Di2 is such a great thing.

I also noticed that the Bike24 website (mentioned in a post above) states: "In order to ensure proper functioning of the electronic Di2 drive system, all components require the same firmware version. The optional diagnostic device allows for reading out or updating the firmware version. An operation of components with different firmware versions may cause a malfunction or loss of function." <sigh>


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

^ It's extremely unlikely that the hub shell could possibly hit the stays, assuming that's what you mean. The likely problems will be tensioning the chain - unless you have horizontal dropouts - and spreading the tips enough to get the hub in there. The potential chainlines are close enough to road that a little tweaking with spacers should fix things, but the real question is whether there will be room for the "cassette joint."

BTW, since I wrote the post above I've sen discussion suggesting that the Di2 hub has no return spring for the selector mechanism, with this being driven by the motor in both directions. Bottom line: old hubs are unlikely to be retrofittable, at least not without some internal mods at best.


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## dancing james (Sep 27, 2010)

has anyone managed to upgrade a standard alfine 11spd to di2?


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## Joe Nation (May 16, 2007)

Any word on whether other DI2 shifters are compatible (eg the little 'sprinter' buttons or bar-end shifters)? I rather fancy teaming this up with SRAM drop bar hydro discs (with the shifter mechanisms removed).


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

Now that's an expensive and complicated way to do things! It seems likely that satellite shifters are supported, there is some info in the Dealer Manual to be found here: SHIMANO Dealer's Manual / User's Manual The drop bar STI lever has a second port: "The remaining terminal can be used for an additional satellite switch or the SM-PCE1." If you are planning on using an accessory/alternate switch instead of one of the standard ones, I'd be contacting Shimano and asking 1) if this is easily possible, and 2) if so, what components and junction boxes are required. I expect it can be done, and the guys at Fairwheel Bikes (Fairwheel Bikes, Cycling Boutique) may have tried it; they seem to be up for that sort of thing.

I trust you are aware of the ST-R785 road disc Di2 levers. These might (perhaps) work with the Alfine hubs, and could maybe work out cheaper than gutting a set of the SRAM hydro levers plus buying extra switches, etc. Good luck!


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## Joe Nation (May 16, 2007)

I have not seen the ST-R785 levers, shows how out of touch I am  Certainly looks like a simpler option. Obviously the left shifter will be redundant, but it could potentially be removed from the lever (or spliced into the system to allow left or right shifting).


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## satanas (Feb 12, 2005)

BTW, in a discussion elsewhere, the point was made that Shimano and SRAM brake parts couldn't be mixed because Shimano uses mineral oil, while SRAM uses DOT fluid. I know zilch about this, but those who do seemed to think things would fail sooner rather than later if the wrong brake fluid was used.


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Saw these on the Kocmo facebook page , nice !
https://www.facebook.com/KOCMO.Titan.Bikes/photos_stream


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## turboferret (Apr 1, 2008)

I am in the process of building my ultimate commuter, the list of features is as follows:

Custom Ti frame with EBB and seat-stay split
Carbon Forks
Carbon integrated 1-piece stem/bars
Deep carbon rims
Hydraulic disc brakes
Di2 Hub gears
32mm tyres
Full mud-guards
Dynamo hub
Belt drive

I've already ordered the post, bars and forks, and the frame is under manufacture in China.

I've spoken to Shimano and they have assured me that the 11-speed R785 Di2 hydraulic shifters will work with the Alfine hub, so I should be fine for shifting and braking.

What I am slightly concerned about is the belt drive, as apparently because of the size of the Di2 motor unit mounted onto the hub, the belt drive means the chainline has to be be shifted inboard by a few mm. This is according to Gates. They also only provide a 28 tooth rear sprocket which means to get roughly the same top gear as my road bike I need a 55t up front. This will have a similarly far inboard chainline, and due to the size really eats into my chainstay clearance. Looking at the frame drawing, to give 2mm of clearance at the closest point on the front ring, my 22mm diameter chainstay is squashed to only being 7.5mm wide horizontally. Not exactly ideal from a rigidity point of view.

Looking at the fantastic looking Kocmo Titan-bikes photos above (which is almost identical to what I'm building apart from the hydraulic brakes) they have a much smaller rear sprocket than 28t, so clearly it is possible. I have emailed them to see if they can pass on any information, but as I'm not buying anything from them, they won't really have any motivation to help!

Has anyone on here done any experimentation and learned anything useful which would be or any assistance?

Cheers, Rich


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## ohmoxide (Aug 22, 2010)

So clean!


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## combat01 (Feb 6, 2008)

*Alfine system, setup*



turboferret said:


> I am in the process of building my ultimate commuter, the list of features is as follows:
> 
> Custom Ti frame with EBB and seat-stay split
> Carbon Forks
> ...


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## turboferret (Apr 1, 2008)

combat01 said:


> Hello, i was wondering- I am looking to build a city computer bike, and considering a Alfine SG-s705 (11 speed hub Di2 ) and ST-R785 Cross shifters setup. You mentioned Shimano assured your levers would work with the Alfine Hub, But if you could please post what model hub you used and if you had any problems or if it worked with no issues. Currently living overseas and if i order it would be so disappointing to learn the hard way it didn't work, The Shifter set is Hydro Di2 and Hub would be 11 speed, but concern is shifting compatibility and both are E-tube


Those shifters and hub are exactly what I have and they work perfectly together. I may have had to update the firmware when first installing, but I don't recall exactly. I certainly plugged into the diagnostics box and everything was detected as it should. The only change I've made from the initial install was to mount the display unit on the bars where it is designed to go. Originally I had it hidden inside the seat tube for a cleaner and more discrete look, but after being caught out with a flat battery and it being a bit of a PITA to charge, I relocated it.

Hope that helps and good luck with your build!

Cheers, Rich


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

These look amazing. One big problem: Almost all new frames are being built with 12x142mm rear axles. I see Rohloff has an option, but Di2 is very compelling for me. Could some spacers and washers do the trick?


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

chomxxo said:


> These look amazing. One big problem: Almost all new frames are being built with 12x142mm rear axles. I see Rohloff has an option, but Di2 is very compelling for me. Could some spacers and washers do the trick?


The axle on the unit is 187mm long. That leaves roughly 32mm of (16 on each side) protruding past the locknuts. Accounting for centering the unit in a wider space, that leaves 12.5mm protruding past the locknuts; dropouts themselves may be as much as 7-8mm when made from aluminum. This simply can't support enough threads past the face of the dropout to accommodate an axle nut. Assuming everything went perfectly, you still wouldn't have any way of keeping the axle from rotating in the dropouts, as the anti-turn washers rely on a dropout slot (which through axles do not have).

It just won't work on so many fronts. I would encourage you to find a bicycle capable of taking a 135mm dropout, preferably with some native method of chain tensioning (sliders, slotted, eccentric, etc), if you wanted to use an Alfine Di2.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Exactly the problem. Trust me, I'm no fan of 142mm through-axles, but they're here to stay on MTBs, cross bikes, and gravel bikes, and coming to road bikes too. Shimano needs to produce an Alfine that's compatible. I'll be ordering a Rohloff soon.



wschruba said:


> The axle on the unit is 187mm long. That leaves roughly 32mm of (16 on each side) protruding past the locknuts. Accounting for centering the unit in a wider space, that leaves 12.5mm protruding past the locknuts; dropouts themselves may be as much as 7-8mm when made from aluminum. This simply can't support enough threads past the face of the dropout to accommodate an axle nut. Assuming everything went perfectly, you still wouldn't have any way of keeping the axle from rotating in the dropouts, as the anti-turn washers rely on a dropout slot (which through axles do not have).
> 
> It just won't work on so many fronts. I would encourage you to find a bicycle capable of taking a 135mm dropout, preferably with some native method of chain tensioning (sliders, slotted, eccentric, etc), if you wanted to use an Alfine Di2.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

This may just be me speaking, but I generally find that a 3/8" axle with nuts is more than strong enough to compare with a 142x12 axle--if not in the lab, in the real world. Nobody I know is doing gap-to-flats on IGHs, even on bikes that they could fit on.

Shimano could definitely make an IGH/gearbox that would work, but at least as of right now, the answer is a firm "no", as they classify the Alfine as a 'comfort' level component, despite how people have been using it. The few people that I have spoken to at Shimano have cited 'lack of [product] interest' as a reason for not developing lighter/better/stronger IGHs. I can't say I blame them, either...I wouldn't want to stick my neck out for a market as a fickle as the 'sport' sector of cycling.

One of the biggest complaints is the gearing range, or rather, how it is skewed; pretty much everybody I talk to would like it to go lower, not higher, as the 11 speed model did. To do so would require a huge redesign, I'm sure, including a torque arm, a'la Rohloff. It may never come, either; when Shimano introduced their mid-drive Bosch motor unit, one of the touted points was integration with Di2, specifically the Alfine hubs. A fun bike to ride for sure (seriously, if you ever get a chance, do try one, they fly), but one that doesn't have any issues with running out of steam uphill.

For a 'serious' bike, I see no reason not to spend for a Rohloff/Pinion, other than frame/component considerations. One thing Shimano definitely does well is integrating components...seeing as how the Alfine Di2 hub works with 2 drop bar shifters (hydraulic/mechanical brakes) _and_ flat bar controls, you can [potentially] have a very clean cockpit. The market for Rohloff is small, and so your options for shifting are small as well, though getting better. The official shifter is a sticking point with me, in particular, which is why I went with the Shimano hub.

By the way, what kind of frame were you thinking of building up? Many single speed frames have no issues running 135x10 axles, and they make ideal conversions to IGH bikes.


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## Francesc (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm looking to installat this set up on my cannondale Hooligan:

Alfine 11s DI2

EW90A junction box

R600 Climbing Shifter Switch

Will this set up works w/o issues?


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## buell (Oct 15, 2015)

Does the Di2 version of the A11 have the same durability/reliability problems as the non-Di2 version?

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I read on this forum that the A8 is more durable/reliable than the A11. I'm wondering if this still holds true for the Di2 versions.

Thanks.


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## Pinchphlat (Feb 27, 2009)

Buell,

I would suggest that the Di2 A11 is as durable/reliable as the A8 hubs. I suspect that most of the problems reported with the cable-based A11 come down to its super sensitive cable tension requirements. The Di2 overcomes that problem. I personally find the Di2 A11s to be a massive improvement over their cable-based versions (I have run both types on road and mtbs).


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## buell (Oct 15, 2015)

Pinchphlat said:


> Buell,
> 
> I would suggest that the Di2 A11 is as durable/reliable as the A8 hubs. I suspect that most of the problems reported with the cable-based A11 come down to its super sensitive cable tension requirements. The Di2 overcomes that problem. I personally find the Di2 A11s to be a massive improvement over their cable-based versions (I have run both types on road and mtbs).


Thanks for your input.


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