# Fat Chance handmade by Tom Ritchey



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

This was 1990, the year after Don Myrah won the world championships riding for Ritchey. He signed on with Yeti/Campagnolo and couldnt get John Parker to build him a bike like his P-23. I guess they didnt get along so Don went to Fat Chance. I dont know how long Myrah rode this Ritchey with Fat stickers but I think it was only for a few Nationals until Chris Chance could copy the P-23's geometry for Myrah. I guess Myrah really liked that Ritchey! He wouldnt even take a Yeti C-26. I wonder where this bike is today.... I think Myrah is still around in the bay area.......


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

That's pretty sweet, but seriously, are you trying to incite another east coast/west coast war? I think this is about the best ammunition I've ever seen.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Just saw it in a magazine and thought it might be of interest here...

He didnt want to ride the Yeti either, which was also California made...

What war are you talking about? On this forum?


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

Fillet brazed, state your source! I cant believe FAT would ever let (or morally allow for that matter!) their decals be put onto a non FAT frame! sacrilidge!
Its bad enough people getting IFs sprayed in classic FAT colour schemes!

I'll find out the truth on this! 

ta

scant


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

scant said:


> Fillet brazed, state your source! I cant believe FAT would ever let (or morally allow for that matter!) their decals be put onto a non FAT frame! sacrilidge!
> Its bad enough people getting IFs sprayed in classic FAT colour schemes!
> 
> I'll find out the truth on this!
> ...


Just look at the picture F-b posted. That seat cluster is definitely Ritchey. Same with the, what looks to be, horizontal t/t. And the super skinny seat stays. That frame has the Ritchey "look" not the Fat look.

What's funny about this isn't the Ritchey/Fat Chance issue, it's that he didnt' want to ride a Yeti or Fat Chance, yet he rode with that Campy Euclid group. Didn't a couple of well known racers forego their Campy sponsorship and run Shimano because they didn't trust Campy to finish the race, oh say in a certain year in Durango to claim a certain prestigeous jersey?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

scant said:


> Fillet brazed, state your source! I cant believe FAT would ever let (or morally allow for that matter!) their decals be put onto a non FAT frame! sacrilidge!
> Its bad enough people getting IFs sprayed in classic FAT colour schemes!
> 
> I'll find out the truth on this!
> ...


Its pretty widely known that this happened. I'll try and find the articles that talk about this. Im not sure if the article accompanying the above picture talks about the bike scenario but I'll check.

The word is, Don paid for this P-23 frame out of his own pocket until he could get a bike he liked.

Regarding that Euclid, ya it wasnt the best working stuff, but as the reigning World Champ (he won with Shimano the year before) Im sure Campy was paying him very well to use the stuff. Well enough to put up with some clunky/missed shifts and heavy parts. The Campy Euclid group probably turned his lovely P-23 into a nice P-25!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> .... I think Myrah is still around in the bay area.......


He is. I saw him at both the Trail Head and Cupertino bike swaps. He was selling a bunch of CX stuff and an old Trek carbon frame of his (but no Ritchey stuff to my dismay). I've got his number (tucked away somewhere)...we could always call and 'interview' him on the subject.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> He is. I saw him at both the Trail Head and Cupertino bike swaps. He was selling a bunch of CX stuff and an old Trek carbon frame of his (but no Ritchey stuff to my dismay). I've got his number (tucked away somewhere)...we could always call and 'interview' him on the subject.


Ya, give him a call and tell him youre interested in his blue 1990 FAT CHANCE P-23. 

Id be curious to see what he has to say about that. Especially about the Yeti falling out.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Ya, give him a call and tell him youre interested in his blue 1990 FAT CHANCE P-23.
> 
> Id be curious to see what he has to say about that. Especially about the Yeti falling out.


I'll do my best.
I did ask him if he had any Ritchey stuff left...said it was all gone. Kind of a bummer.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> I'll do my best.
> I did ask him if he had any Ritchey stuff left...said it was all gone. Kind of a bummer.


Ask him if he's got any of them Etto lids. You'll need one to go with your retro rides.

And with the Etto - that P23 / Euclid P25 just became a P26!


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## edouble (Apr 16, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This was 1990, the year after Don Myrah won the world championships riding for Ritchey. He signed on with Yeti/Campagnolo and couldnt get John Parker to build him a bike like his P-23. I guess they didnt get along so Don went to Fat Chance. I dont know how long Myrah rode this Ritchey with Fat stickers but I think it was only for a few Nationals until Chris Chance could copy the P-23's geometry for Myrah. I guess Myrah really liked that Ritchey! He wouldnt even take a Yeti C-26. I wonder where this bike is today.... I think Myrah is still around in the bay area.......


tom ritchey dosnt and never has, welded so while it may be a hand made frame tom ritchey didnt personally make it.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

edouble said:


> tom ritchey dosnt and never has, welded so while it may be a hand made frame tom ritchey didnt personally make it.


Welded or brazed? Technically there is a difference between the two, let's not get hung up on technicalities. TR has joined tubes together on more than one occasion.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Huh? Youve lost me. Yes, those beautifully smooth welds are done with an ARC welder. Isnt that common knowledge??


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Huh? Youve lost me. Yes, those beautifully smooth welds are done with an ARC welder. Isnt that common knowledge??


Someone's lost. But wasn't it a MIG welder to get them puddles  . Although didn't a lot of the P series frames come from Japan tacked and Tom did the final brazing?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

The way I understand it is that there were two P series versions, a tig version and a fillet version. One was handmade my Tom and the others were tig welded in Japan. I think all of the P bikes had the seat cluster fillet brazed by Tom however....

But yeah, all the high end fillet brazed bikes like the Anapurna and Team Comp were ARC or MIG welded to get the puddles on those thick .9mm wall tubes.  And not by Tom. Legend has it Tom would drop off all his tube sets at a local Palo Alto muffler shop in the morning and then at the end of the day pick them up and take em to the painter.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Legend has it Tom would drop off all his tube sets at a local Palo Alto muffler shop in the morning and then at the end of the day pick them up and take em to the painter.


I think I may have had those guys put a muffler on an old car of mine. The welds on that thing are super smooth.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> The way I understand it is that there were two P series versions, a tig version and a fillet version. One was handmade my Tom and the others were tig welded in Japan. I think all of the P bikes had the seat cluster fillet brazed by Tom however....


I do remember that. All the early bikes were fillet brazed but when he worked with Tange on the Logic tubing it was designed with short buts for TIG welding with some limited numbers being fillet brazed. I had heard that all the Japan TIG bike were sent to Tom without the braze ons and he would finish them up.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Heres a P-23 ad: https://www.oldmountainbikes.com/catalogs/ritchey/1990/ritchey1990_04.jpg


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

I think it might have been a move worth considering to give his components another name rather than Ritchey. If you take a MTB rider thats been involved for say 4 years he has no idea of what or where Ritchey came from. Like this poster edouble, Im assuming he knows Ritchey as a parts manufacturer only, and that Tom doesnt or never has welded/brazed/put a tubeset together. Whereas to me, Ritcheys are one of the most legendary steel frames made. Just a thought. I think his frames would have a different image possibly.....


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

*The Team Versions*



Fillet-brazed said:


> The way I understand it is that there were two P series versions, a tig version and a fillet version. One was handmade my Tom and the others were tig welded in Japan. I think all of the P bikes had the seat cluster fillet brazed by Tom however....
> 
> But yeah, all the high end fillet brazed bikes like the Anapurna and Team Comp were ARC or MIG welded to get the puddles on those thick .9mm wall tubes.  And not by Tom. Legend has it Tom would drop off all his tube sets at a local Palo Alto muffler shop in the morning and then at the end of the day pick them up and take em to the painter.


were all fillet brazed by Tom......

P23 Team
P22 Team etc......


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I think it might have been a move worth considering to give his components another name rather than Ritchey. If you take a MTB rider thats been involved for say 4 years he has no idea of what or where Ritchey came from. Like this poster edouble, Im assuming he knows Ritchey as a parts manufacturer only, and that Tom doesnt or never has welded/brazed/put a tubeset together. Whereas to me, Ritcheys are one of the most legendary steel frames made. Just a thought. I think his frames would have a different image possibly.....


It's actually a great idea and one that happens a lot in the industry - Specialized/Body Geometry; Trek/Icon and then Bontrager; Cannondale/Coda; Norco/Axiom...Marketing 101. Logic is a great name for a line of parts.


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> I think I may have had those guys put a muffler on an old car of mine. The welds on that thing are super smooth.


I think I saw a Ritchey logic muffler on ebay recently, but I could tell it wasn't original and had been restickered cause the weld's weren't so nice. Probably a meineke . . .

(am I getting this thread confused with Penske bike parts??? no wait that was Yeti/Parker/and FTW!)

-mtnwing


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

ssmike said:


> Just look at the picture F-b posted. That seat cluster is definitely Ritchey. Same with the, what looks to be, horizontal t/t. And the super skinny seat stays. That frame has the Ritchey "look" not the Fat look.
> 
> What's funny about this isn't the Ritchey/Fat Chance issue, it's that he didnt' want to ride a Yeti or Fat Chance, yet he rode with that Campy Euclid group. Didn't a couple of well known racers forego their Campy sponsorship and run Shimano because they didn't trust Campy to finish the race, oh say in a certain year in Durango to claim a certain prestigeous jersey?


Can you say Furtado?


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> This was 1990, the year after Don Myrah won the world championships riding for Ritchey. He signed on with Yeti/Campagnolo and couldnt get John Parker to build him a bike like his P-23. I guess they didnt get along so Don went to Fat Chance. I dont know how long Myrah rode this Ritchey with Fat stickers but I think it was only for a few Nationals until Chris Chance could copy the P-23's geometry for Myrah. I guess Myrah really liked that Ritchey! He wouldnt even take a Yeti C-26. I wonder where this bike is today.... I think Myrah is still around in the bay area.......


Don used to and still might live in Saratoga. He also rode for Steelman.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

YETIFIED said:


> Don used to and still might live in Saratoga. He also rode for Steelman.


Way to bring back an old ass thread.

Don still lives in the Bay Area. He was selling off some stuff at a few swap meets last year.


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

Hey Eric,

I hope that's a good thing. I just followed the link and didn't bother looking at the date. Are there any Bay Area swaps coming up?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

YETIFIED said:


> Hey Eric,
> 
> I hope that's a good thing. I just followed the link and didn't bother looking at the date. Are there any Bay Area swaps coming up?


I don't mind posts coming back from the dead one bit. There are a lot of really good threads on this board from way back. This forum has grown so much, I think a lot of the newer regulars missed some of the great olders posts that are here.

There are some swaps coming up, but there is no way I'm going to tell you where and when.


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## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I dont know how long Myrah rode this Ritchey with Fat stickers but I think it was only for a few Nationals until Chris Chance could copy the P-23's geometry for Myrah. QUOTE]
> 
> thread from the dead as eric mentioned  I checked this with wendyl then forgot all about it. Wendyl reckons he did 3 races on the ritchey.
> I'd also love to hear the full story on the leaving yeti for FAT thing


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## YETIFIED (May 4, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> I don't mind posts coming back from the dead one bit. There are a lot of really good threads on this board from way back. This forum has grown so much, I think a lot of the newer regulars missed some of the great olders posts that are here.
> 
> There are some swaps coming up, but there is no way I'm going to tell you where and when.


Okay, I see how it is. We could have easily done this in a friendly manner and to think I was going to turn you on to all of my Tomac stuff..................What was I thinking?:nono:

PS. See you at the swap!


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