# New DT Swiss RWS skewers/axles



## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Has anyone noticed the flashy new levers on the DT Swiss RWS axles and skewers? The handles are now aluminium instead of that Hasbro plastic lever look.

A little bit heavier than the plastic handle, but waaay cooler looking and likely less fragile.

















Old RWS versions (steel skewer)

















New RWS versions (Titanium skewer)


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## sabresix (Dec 24, 2006)

Where abouts did you get them from? All places seem to only stock the older type.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I got this set from Universal Cycles.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Those look sweet! I was looking to upgrade my hubs to the RWS system last year and decided against it because of the plastic lever and some riders having problems with them failing. BTW is the splined engagement between the lever and skewer shaft aluminum on these as well? I know some folks had problems with that interface stripping out under excessive torque with the old ones.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

They appear to be an all aluminium construction.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Sweet! Looks like they're cheaper too. Definitely going to be making the switch now!


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

Sorry couldn't resist. If others make aluminium axled skewers then you will find them in the "stupidest lightweight parts" thread and when DT finally explores aluminium axles then it is cool and sweet. Have to live with.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Only the 9mm and 10mm axles are aluminium, the 5mm axles are Ti.


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

OK. But where does stupidity stop and the smart stuff happens?
5mm? 6mm? 7mm? 8mm? But 9mm?
And will you change your mind when DT comes up with a 5mm full Aluminium skewer?
So are others like Tune and AFC the stupid ones and DT is smart enough not to go for Aluminium for 5mm axles for any use?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

Stupidity starts where engineering doesn't happen.


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## blue cross (Dec 16, 2009)

Rocky,Rocky. Does not answer my question and I wish this could be that easy.
Richard Buckminster Fuller and Rudolf Diesel were called stupid by some engineering circles when alive.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

9mm is the max diameter you can run on a standard mtb fork. At that diameter the axle can be made from aluminum and provide sufficient strength and durability. I don't believe DT or anyone else would attempt a 5mm alloy skewer. As for aluminum being used for this application, look at all of the 10mm and 12mm rear thru bolts (135mm, 142mm, 150mm) being used on all mountain and downhill bikes with no problems.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

sessionrider said:


> 9mm is the max diameter you can run on a standard mtb fork. At that diameter the axle can be made from aluminum and provide sufficient strength and durability. I don't believe DT or anyone else would attempt a 5mm alloy skewer. As for aluminum being used for this application, look at all of the 10mm and 12mm rear thru bolts (135mm, 142mm, 150mm) being used on all mountain and downhill bikes with no problems.


Well, the actual dropouts are made out of magnesium. If you slam it hard enough that could be the place to fail, not the axle.

5mm skewers are not loaded in shear, only in tension. Weight is on the hub end pieces.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

5mm aluminium skewers wouldn't last long under the sort of tension they need to stay closed, the threaded end would likely just shear off at the threads as soon as it was put under tension, the stress riser at the threads would be the death of them.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> 5mm aluminium skewers wouldn't last long under the sort of tension they need to stay closed, the threaded end would likely just shear off at the threads as soon as it was put under tension, the stress riser at the threads would be the death of them.


I use aluminum nuts on my BMX bike (3/8 and 14mm axles). Nothing shears off. My guess the main problem with a thin aluminum axle would be fatigue failure. For some very marginal possible weight savings, certainly not worth bothering. Even titanium bolt-on make me think a bit when installing.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Curmy said:


> Well, the actual dropouts are made out of magnesium. If you slam it hard enough that could be the place to fail, not the axle.
> 
> 5mm skewers are not loaded in shear, only in tension. Weight is on the hub end pieces.


Yeah I know that most fork lowers are Mag. So you're saying that a 9mm thru bolt would cause a magnesium dropout to shear off compared to a standard qr.

As for a 5mm aluminum skewer, even under tension loads only it would probably last about five minutes. As rocky says, 5mm aluminum threads with that much torque, no good.

The alloy nuts on your 14mm axle can handle way more tension than a 5mm alloy threaded skewer could.

I think the bottom line is that the RWS 9mm system has been out for several years and I think if they had a high failure rate DT wouldn't sell them, or at the very least you would hear about the issue on forums like these.

The only thing I have heard regarding any issues with the RWS system is with the plastic levers/splined engagement of the old lever design. People were snapping the levers on rocks, etc. not breaking the axle shaft.

Seems like the new alloy lever design is aimed at making the levers more robust, and should alleviate the only real weak point in the design.

I will be ordering mine shortly.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The aluminium nuts aren't at risk, but most aluminium bolts or skewers will fracture at the bottom of the thread groove, especially with cut instead of rolled threads, you've already got a crack propagator cutting a significant portion of the way into the 5mm skewer diameter. It's the same sort of failure that happens trying to use 5mm alloy bolts for high torque applications like stem and seatpost bolts.

The 9mm and 10mm RWS axles are big enough that the remaining material has plenty of surplus strength in tension for the sort of tension needed to hold a wheel into a fork or frame.

That is just another plus for 15mm fork axles and the new 12mm thru axle for the rear, because they thread into a captive nut, they don't need a lot of tension to keep them in place, they just need to be snug enough to not back out on their own.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

rockyuphill said:


> The aluminium nuts aren't at risk, but most aluminium bolts or skewers will fracture at the bottom of the thread groove, especially with cut instead of rolled threads.


Well, threading is not the only way to attach and tension a skewer. If somebody really wanted it, I guess one can cook up a way. I doubt it would make any sense from weight standpoint, and it still will fatigue out.

We are kind of splitting hairs. Bottom line - 5mm, nobody uses aluminum, even thinner titanium is a bit sketchy, 9mm TA, aluminum works fine.



sessionrider said:


> Yeah I know that most fork lowers are Mag. So you're saying that a 9mm thru bolt would cause a magnesium dropout to shear off compared to a standard qr.


I am saying that I would not be surprised if that is the failure point for either system.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Curmy said:


> I use aluminum nuts on my BMX bike (3/8 and 14mm axles). Nothing shears off. My guess the main problem with a thin aluminum axle would be fatigue failure. For some very marginal possible weight savings, certainly not worth bothering. Even titanium bolt-on make me think a bit when installing.


BMX wheels have a lot lower loads being placed upon them though, and the actual surface area of threads on even a 3/8" axle is greater than a 5mm skewer rod. 3/8" is actually 9.5mm so its even more than the DT RWS thru-axles.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

DeeEight said:


> BMX wheels have a lot lower loads being placed upon them though,


Huh? They are certainly loaded much more then any of my other bikes - and axle are tensioned much, much higher, even without pegs. I was talking about thread stripping off, not about axle. Axle will fail because it is thin.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Wow, they made them better and dropped the prices quite a bit. When was the last time that happened in the bike industry ? Now they need to lower the prices on 240s.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

Well, the new skewer handles look great, and appear to be more durable. I haven't broken mine, but the plastic is...plasticky.

Has the rest of the thread gone sideways over a misunderstanding, or am I missing something? Aren't the new skewers either steel or titanium for the ROD and then aluminum for the handle and bindings? I know mine are steel rods, aluminum binding/buttons and plastic for the rest. Is someone revealing that the skewer rod itself is aluminum, or is it steel/ti?


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The 5mm skewer rods are either steel or Ti, only the 9mm and 10mm axles are aluminium. The handles are all aluminium.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

EBasil said:


> Has the rest of the thread gone sideways over a misunderstanding, or am I missing something?


I think he is trying to twist the argument about aluminum pedal spindles into "9 and 10mm aluminum axles aren't safe." Or something like that. Thousands of aluminum through axles and through bolts have already proven him wrong.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Rocky,

any comments after almost a year of use for the RWS rear 10mm skewer? I'm thinking about it for my Chris King ISO disc rear hub and Rocky Mountain Element Team RSL.


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

They've been great, they grip the Element's carbon rear dropouts solidly without any trace of wiggle that might erode the carbon. You can really cinch them down, so it does help stiffen up the rear end.


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

Do you know which one you bought?

There appears to be two versions

Titanium shaft?
HWQASM00S2940S (Universal Cycles -- DT Swiss RWS Ti Aluminum Lever Skewers)
and
Alloy shaft?
HWQASM00S2945S (Universal Cycles -- DT Swiss RWS Aluminum Lever Skewers)


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

I've got the 9mm front RWS thru axle and the 10mm RWS rear thru axle, both aluminium. The newer DT 240S hubs are simple to swap to the thru axle end caps.


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## jm2e (Mar 26, 2012)

edit:
Sounds like about $80 per wheel to do the converson from QR to Thru Bolt. Seems like a maybe-a-fun-idea-but-not-really-a-huge-upgrade thing to spend a disproportionate amount of money on?


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## Five Points (Jan 17, 2010)

*sun black flag pro with dt swiss RWS 10mm thru sqewer*

I am getting a set of sun ringle black flag pro sqewers today and want to use the dt swiss rws 10mm sqewer/axle. Do I need some sort of end caps for the rear hub or can I simply remove the 9mm qr cap and slide the dt swiss one in? This is confusing me


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## rockyuphill (Nov 28, 2004)

The 10mm thru axle RWS only work on hubs that support 10mm thru axles, you'd need to see if the Sun hubs have a 10mm thru axle option, it may involve new hub bits like axles and bearings.

Even the 5mm RWS rear skewer is a big improvement over a a standard QR skewer.

It looks like they have accessories to allow 135x12 and 142x12 thru axles, and a 135x10 axle option.

Black Flag Pro | SUNRinglé

Quick Release, 135×12, 142×12 Rear Axle Options (12mm axle end caps sold separately)

Here's the 135x10 end caps

Universal Cycles -- SunRingle SRD/Pro Wheelset Hub Axle Conversions


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## thechez (Mar 7, 2009)

The rear end conversion isn't readily available from SunRingle. You have to special order them. At that point they come with a thru axle and bolts. You'd just be adding cost to go with the DT Swiss axle after that. According to Schmitty at Universal you need to order part #281-25122-Bolt. It's $30.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

On the front 9mm, you can just take the standard 5mm QR end caps to your local machine shop, and have them bore a 9mm hole straight through. I did this on a WTB Laserdisc Lite front hub, and it's been as solid as my 9mm DT 240.


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## PUBCRAWL (Feb 9, 2007)

thechez said:


> The rear end conversion isn't readily available from SunRingle. You have to special order them. At that point they come with a thru axle and bolts. You'd just be adding cost to go with the DT Swiss axle after that. According to Schmitty at Universal you need to order part #281-25122-Bolt. It's $30.


I've heard that Stan's NoTubes hub adapters fit some SunRingle hubs. (Stan's hub are made by SunRingle).

SunRingle Blackfly's have the same hub adapters that Stan's 3.30 Hubs take just in a different colour... annodized black instead of silver.


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