# ROCO WC vs. DHX 5.0



## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

I am looking into buying a new shock. I am looking at the ROCO WC and the DHX 5.0. Which is better for DH for fun and freeride. I live in a sandy, rocky area and i ride N* quite a bit. Which do you think is better, and what weight shock should i get?? I am around 160lb. I have ridden a DHX 4.0, and how do they compare to it?? Thanks in advance.


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## 08nwsula (Oct 19, 2005)

I would take the dhx. seems to be reliable and fr oriented


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## ich_dh (Jan 19, 2007)

i like my dhx5 but i havent felt the roco so i cant really talk


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## rustyskills (Dec 23, 2007)

The Fox got better reviews


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## SHIVER ME TIMBERS (Jan 12, 2004)

for pure DH........Roco beyond a doubt.....btw I ride a dhx5.0


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## freerider06 (Feb 13, 2007)

why not the new vivid. ive ridden the roco and the dhx and im very impressed with the new rockshox vivid 5.1. its just a thought though, but if you were stuck between the two i would definitely go for the roco...


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## Ithnu (Feb 16, 2007)

PUSH does them both now, so who cares.


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## Freerydejunky (Sep 21, 2006)

I love my roco, do quite alot of FR'ing when N* is closed, I cant wait to test it out this summer. 

I have a RC not WC but they compare pretty evenly.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

The roco is user servicable, but if you're not inclined to tear it apart then that feature isn't worth much. 

The roco and DHX ride differently. Even with the propedal all the way off, the DHX feels "platform" compared to the roco. Likewise the roco is active and plush even if you crank up the compression damping. So it depends on your bike and riding style a bit... 

Anyways I've had a DHX, Roco TST and Roco WC all on the same bike, I like the roco WC the best by far.


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## JC bs (Oct 5, 2007)

roco


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Having used both plenty, I wouldn't even touch a Fox again.

Roco:
Feels infinitely better and more controlled, especially at speed and on edges and on hits.
Rebuildable.
Better and more effective adjustments.
I think slightly cheaper.
Did I mention rebuildable?


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## konut (Mar 25, 2006)

out of the box the rocco wc feels better than the dhx 5 did.

also the dhx is just far to complicated and each adjustment has an efect on the other settings,on the rocco you have high speed compression and rebound enough for me.


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## Winston (Apr 27, 2004)

Me too. I agree with FM's statements when the bike is pointed downhill.



FM said:


> Anyways I've had a DHX, Roco TST and Roco WC all on the same bike, I like the roco WC the best by far.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> for pure DH........Roco beyond a doubt.....btw I ride a dhx5.0


SMT, why? Why do you, the biggest whore for marzocchi there is, ride a fox shock? Why do you wholeheartedly recommend the roco, yet you have a fox on your intense? This contradicts your response to the O.P.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

FM said:


> The roco is user servicable, but if you're not inclined to tear it apart then that feature isn't worth much.
> 
> The roco and DHX ride differently. Even with the propedal all the way off, the DHX feels "platform" compared to the roco. Likewise the roco is active and plush even if you crank up the compression damping. So it depends on your bike and riding style a bit...
> 
> Anyways I've had a DHX, Roco TST and Roco WC all on the same bike, I like the roco WC the best by far.


Fm,

Has the Roco been able to be serviced by a user yet? While there was a promise about it, how many have been done, and is there a gas charge?

While I haven't done it myself yet, it appears the DHXc is rebuildable by the user, fairly simply. I've viewed the diagrams and the threads on pinkbike about it. The thing that eases the rebuilding of the DHXc is that the piggyback has a shraeder for the charge and is user tunable.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Fm,
> 
> Has the Roco been able to be serviced by a user yet? While there was a promise about it, how many have been done, and is there a gas charge?


There is no gas charge, it's air only. I think PUSH adds gas though, with their mods.

There is a local guy who has overhauled his roco several times, he's posted some details on ride monkey (evil bob). It sounds as simple as:

let the air out, 
remove phillips head screw,
cycle the shock to purge out the old oil, 
submerge the shock in oil and cycle it to refill with oil (use a platic bag or bucket), 
re-install phillips head screw
add air pressure.

Also, the roco is based off of showa guts, so any moto shop should be able to work on it if the user doesn't want to.

Edit: Here is some more info I found on ridemonkey. Plenty more there.
*

Here is a service manual (ppt) and exploded view (pdf)! *


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

PUSH uses nitrogen on their rebuilds, on all three package levels. The end user doesn't fiddle with the shraeder valve anymore.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Is there a blow up available of it? I'm trying to get a handle of how the damper rod displaces into the oil. There has to be some volume of gas to for the piston rod to displace its own volume of fluid into, unless its of a new design that doesn't follow the "norm" we're familiar with.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Is there a blow up available of it? I'm trying to get a handle of how the damper rod displaces into the oil. There has to be some volume of gas to for the piston rod to displace its own volume of fluid into, unless its of a new design that doesn't follow the "norm" we're familiar with.


did you look at the link I just posted?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Sorry, was below my toolbar when I was reading:madman:

Edit: It appears the air charge is the same type as the DHX.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

I've taken the Roco apart completely before. It isn't hard. Once you have it submersed in oil with the bleed port open and the other oil dumped out you're 80% of the way there. LOTS of people with some minimal mechanical aptitude service their Rocos completely.


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## FM (Apr 30, 2003)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Edit: It appears the air charge is the same type as the DHX.


No gas in a DHX?


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

air in a stock dhx, nitrogen in a pushed dhx


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## djamgils (Oct 23, 2006)

Renegade said:


> air in a stock dhx, nitrogen in a pushed dhx


There would be no use off putting nitrogen in the dhx by push. because the first time you change the airpressure you contaminate the nitrogen with air. They used to put nitrogen in the older fox shocks that used a closed nitrogen chamber.

I am in the position that I have a dhx5.0. I dont experience anny problems with it but what I dislike about it is the vague adjustments and the difficult servicing. I can buy a used roco wc for a decent price. 
What I like about the roco is the simplicity, user servicable. But I kind of mis a low speed compression adjuster.

Should I buy the roco or keep the dhx?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Push has come on to mention why they us N2 and it's because their lines and fittings are already assembled to the n2 reservoirs, so they simply use the N2 out of convenience.


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## blackwater racing1013 (Nov 8, 2007)

Renegade said:


> SMT, why? Why do you, the biggest whore for marzocchi there is, ride a fox shock? Why do you wholeheartedly recommend the roco, yet you have a fox on your intense? This contradicts your response to the O.P.


HAHAHAHAHA
thats funny as he//


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## Mikey_C (Mar 8, 2005)

doesnt it depend on the bike suspension setup??

fox has small bump adj

more progressive feeling

roco pretty smooth through its travel no ramp up feeling


so in theory(and overly simplified) if you have a fancy suspension setup and simpler shock may be best


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Mikey_C said:


> doesnt it depend on the bike suspension setup??
> 
> fox has small bump adj
> 
> ...


Uhhhh what? Stop talking.


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## scrwscrnnms (Jun 27, 2005)

I would say Roco for Dh and really big stuff

DHX for FR.

Really it depends on how much you work on your own stuff.

Personally I ride the DHX 5.0, complicated maybe, but I love the way it feels on all parts of the mountain...not just the DH and big stuff


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

ya, i do work on a lot of my stuff, so i may just have to get the roco. I do love marzocchi too. Just more insentive to buy one.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

I am gonna go for a WC, good price, good performance and being able to service it myself is a great plus.


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

> I am gonna go for a WC, good price, good performance and being able to service it myself is a great plus


ya, and it is cheaper than the dhx, even after buying the coil.


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## Mikey_C (Mar 8, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> Uhhhh what? Stop talking.


who the f are u to tell someone to stop talkin?

maybe you can be a d!ck to smt...

but on an open forum if i feel like i can add to the post I will cuz thats how it works.

if you dont like what i gots to say good for you, but there is no need to post your(useless) opinion of my post. being a d!ck for no good reason..man you got some real internet balls

oh and as for the actual post lets see:

the dhx has some fancy feature called pro pedal which is great for those simple single pivot designs. for those great pedaling vpp, fsr, pedal bob isnt as much of an issue.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Mikey_C said:


> who the f are u to tell someone to stop talkin?
> 
> maybe you can be a d!ck to smt...
> 
> ...


Someone who actually knows both shocks inside and out and knows how to tune them and what each one is capable of and not capable of. There's a need for me to post a FACT about your post because it's flat out wrong. Deal, hippie.


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## Raptordude (Mar 30, 2004)

SHIVER ME TIMBERS said:


> for pure DH........Roco beyond a doubt.....btw I ride a dhx5.0


Why? Why should we take in any advice you offer if this is the ONLY information you are going to provide?


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

djamgils said:


> There would be no use off putting nitrogen in the dhx by push. because the first time you change the airpressure you contaminate the nitrogen with air. They used to put nitrogen in the older fox shocks that used a closed nitrogen chamber.


Sir, once Push has worked on your shock, and topped of your resevoir with noitrigen, you do not change the pressure in that resevoir. Push sets the PSI for you. Same with the Roco.


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## captain spaulding (May 7, 2006)

DHidiot said:


> Someone who actually knows both shocks inside and out and knows how to tune them and what each one is capable of and not capable of. There's a need for me to post a FACT about your post because it's flat out wrong. Deal, hippie.


Explanation on why his logic is flawed, mr. e-thug?


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## djamgils (Oct 23, 2006)

So when you get your roco or dhx pushed you lose a adjuster. 
push isn't a magical thing you still need to play with adjustments for different tracks. The only thing push can do is change the range of adjustments(not completely true) to your need but within that range you still need to find your own setting.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Shims are available to self-tune the damper assembly.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

djamgils said:


> So when you get your roco or dhx pushed you lose a adjuster.
> push isn't a magical thing you still need to play with adjustments for different tracks. The only thing push can do is change the range of adjustments(not completely true) to your need but within that range you still need to find your own setting.


So why is that a bad thing? Have you ever had a shock serviced by Push? It doesn't sound like you have. I've had a vanilla rc, a dhx, and now a roco done by them. When it's finished, you don't have to tweak as many adjustments to get the shock to work for you in a wide variety of applications.
When they rework the dhx, it no longer needs the service of the air resevoir/bottom out protection as it was designed by fox. It's a different shock after service.


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## XSL_WiLL (Nov 2, 2004)

Renegade said:


> Sir, once Push has worked on your shock, and topped of your resevoir with noitrigen, you do not change the pressure in that resevoir. Push sets the PSI for you. Same with the Roco.


It eventually leaks out...


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## djamgils (Oct 23, 2006)

Renegade said:


> So why is that a bad thing? Have you ever had a shock serviced by Push? It doesn't sound like you have. I've had a vanilla rc, a dhx, and now a roco done by them. When it's finished, you don't have to tweak as many adjustments to get the shock to work for you in a wide variety of applications.
> When they rework the dhx, it no longer needs the service of the air resevoir/bottom out protection as it was designed by fox. It's a different shock after service.


I have never had a shock serviced by push. If I would then after receiving the shock I would still want to experiment with different settings for different applications. And therefore the nitrogen would not be necesary. 
Fabien barel has 3 differently tuned shocks and tweaks them for every track, if there was a ultimate setup that you imply that push can give you then he wouldn't need 3 different shocks. And fabien barel gets a lot more custom stuff then average joe would get at push.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

So are you implying that you are a racer of the caliber of Fabian B.? Or that you are as sensitive to shock set-up as a world cup racer? Are you not just a regular guy like most other people who wouldn't notice a change in his shock whatsoever?
If you are that sensitive to set up, then there is only one shock for you, a cane creek double barrel. All of the adjustments are external.


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## djamgils (Oct 23, 2006)

My point was that it has no extra value that push uses nitrogen because the first time you want to change the air pressure you contaminate the nitrogen. Then you said it isn't necesary to change to pressure and then I tried to say that in my opinion it is always necesary to change the pressure yourself. 

changing settings is because of curiosity/in search of, a better setting. Sending my dhx to push would be done out of curiosity. 

I am not comparing myself to FB. but I do notice a change of 15psi boost valve or 2 clicks of propedal.
If I and a lot other people wouldn't notice a change in settings then the push thing would be completely innecesary. 

And finally, I emailed cane creek today with the question where I can buy a double barrel in the netherlands.


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## Renegade (May 10, 2004)

Once Push modified my shock, be it the roco or the dhx, I found that I was pleased with the bottom out setting, that it worked for me for all applications. Adjusting the rebound and compression adjusters gave me enough range of adjustment to suit my needs for my riding. And that mat be just one or two clicks of either adjuster.
Are you really going to take the time to adjust four different adjustments for every ride you do? I like tinkering too, but not at the expense of my ride time.

Edit; you can buy the shock directly from cane creek, if you cannot find a dealer in your country.


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## tacubaya (Jan 27, 2006)

All PUSH customers proceed to slap djamgils in the face..


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## Djponee (Dec 20, 2006)

> All PUSH customers proceed to slap djamgils in the face.


damn straight. I wasn't even asking about a PUSH'd shock anyways, and it is okay to say, " Y a, this can be push'd, this can't," but when you diss on that shizz, get the hell out of the forum and let the people who know what they are talking about have their say.


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## GFreak (Sep 23, 2005)

I ride the Roco WC and have been very happy with it. The number 1 reason I got it is because Marocci has a trade in program. If you already have a downhill shock you can send it to Marzocci and get a new shock like in kind for 1/2 off retail. Give them a call so see what the actual price will be.


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## GnaR9 (Jul 7, 2007)

DHidiot said:


> Having used both plenty, I wouldn't even touch a Fox again.


On what bike are you referencing? 
FWIW, FTW himself said the DHX mated with our frame is a bad set up. I personally like it after I got it dialed, which took almost 3 months. But I'd imagine a shock with no platform would benefit our frame design... maybe why you like the Roco better than the DHX (Unless you're pulling experience from other frames as well).
I'm okay with the DHX, but ordered a Vivid for shits and giggles to see how a non platform shock feels. I would have gone with a Zocchi if I had better experiences with their CS and they had better quality control. But IMO that company is blowing their rep. Rockshox has been nothing but tits to me since running their products. I'll post a review after some ride time.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

GnaR9 said:


> On what bike are you referencing?
> FWIW, FTW himself said the DHX mated with our frame is a bad set up. I personally like it after I got it dialed, which took almost 3 months. But I'd imagine a shock with no platform would benefit our frame design... maybe why you like the Roco better than the DHX (Unless you're pulling experience from other frames as well).
> I'm okay with the DHX, but ordered a Vivid for shits and giggles to see how a non platform shock feels. I would have gone with a Zocchi if I had better experiences with their CS and they had better quality control. But IMO that company is blowing their rep. Rockshox has been nothing but tits to me since running their products. I'll post a review after some ride time.


The Roco has quite a bit of LSC, just not a varying degree of low speed lockout, and keeps it from wallowing or diving excessively (when you set it up with the right oil and a moderate compression setting, in addition to the correct IFP depth) and feels nice and free to move once you hit a high speed sharp edge. I have bottomed it out hard once, and that time hurt me more than the bike I think - ever come down into a ledged G-out so hard you feel like you got punched in the back of the head?. The big selling point for the Roco is that it is 100% user rebuildable, and every bit of feel is adjustable between the oil weight, shim stacking, and IFP depth in the reservoir.

10" of travel is very hard to keep from wallowing so it can't go without any LSC at all. Unfortunately the ProPedal/LSC on the DHX is pretty limiting still once you get into higher speed hits, especially in the top of the travel or the preload point. Both Marzocchi and RS have a very good feel for where the LSC range needs to be. I haven't ridden the Vivid yet, but based on their ranges for the Boxxers they have it in a good spot.

The 5ths and Swingers feel surprisingly alright on the R9's, just a bit slow on the rebound if you like things fast. The leverage is high enough in the beginning of the travel to blow through the SPV pretty nicely.
I'm far from stoked on the Marzocchi '08 stuff that's now being made in Taiwan. Heavier and more problematic.

I've had limited experience with the two shocks on most of the other big frames out there right now (M3's/V10's, Morewoods, Sundays/Glorys, DHR's), some more than others. Anyone who's spent time on the two agrees that the DHX becomes harsh at speed with just about any setting compared to the Roco. Pretty sure FTW favors the Double Barrel over just about anything on the R9's if I remember right. If I had a choice (and some extra disposable income that wasn't spoken for) I'd probably run one of those.

I'm presently thinking about doing the 5th Element SPV removal/shim mod on a 9" damper to lower/slacken the bike even a tad more and shorten the travel just a bit.


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## djamgils (Oct 23, 2006)

just to be clear. I have nothing against push and having a shock personally valved is a good thing. The only thing that seems useless to me is the nitrogen in the boost valve. 

And for the roco vs dhx part. I am not going to buy a roco and am going to sell my dhx. And will buy a double barrel.

and why do you think that I dont know what I am talking about?


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## GnaR9 (Jul 7, 2007)

DHidiot said:


> Pretty sure FTW favors the Double Barrel over just about anything on the R9's if I remember right. If I had a choice (and some extra disposable income that wasn't spoken for) I'd probably run one of those.
> 
> I'm presently thinking about doing the 5th Element SPV removal/shim mod on a 9" damper to lower/slacken the bike even a tad more and shorten the travel just a bit.


Slacker? What year's your frame? Mines an 07 at 65 degrees w/ a Boxxer, a Zocchi or Fox should give you a 64ish angle. The 06 frames would be okay though, probably set you around the current angles. 
I did read everything you said, just quoting this in response. The LSC was the reasoning behind my saying a non-platform shock would benefit our frame. 
FTW recommended the Roco to me over anything else. Didn't even mention a DB. But who knows. And, I've been told a Vivid is the closest thing to a DB out there, and for half the cost. So if he prefers a DB, I'm soon to be riding the next best thing. I'll let you know after Monday how it feels. 
BTW, a friend is riding a custom valved/gutted 5th on his DHR, claims it's the best shock he's ridden. I gave it a spin, and even though it was maybe 100lbs under sprung for me, it felt crazy dead. Loads of LSC, but still supple. So it pedaled great AND tracked the ground. Sounds perfect, but felt totally disconnected, hence the dead comment.


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## RideFaster (Dec 18, 2004)

I have owned a DHX air and coil. Only spent 5 minutes on a Roco. All Fox Propedal shocks have a very noticeable platform that is hard to work around (in terms of getting rid of it.) I have found it hard to get the DHX's to feel plush, or stand up to big hits. I have noticed that for big flowy and smooth lines, the DHX feels great, but for technical slow speed trails, they just don't feel good.


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