# Anyone ever used this tubing roller/bender?



## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=99736

And yes, I know it's Chinese-made Harbor Freight junk. I'm mostly interested in whether this style of 3-roller bender will make bike-quality bends (no dents/dimples/flat spots) in larger diameter (ie, 1 1/8, 1 1/4) thinwall tubes. I have limited space for more tools and something that would mount to the bench (rather than require a large area and/or floor mounting) is appealing.

I have already attempted scaling up the tool I use for bending chainstays and seatstays and concluded that it's not a viable option.

And yes, I'm being slowly sucked into the bending main tubes vortex of doom. I really thought I would be able to resist. C'est la vie.

-Walt


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I was tempted to buy it the last couple of times I was in HF. I couldn't bring myself to do it though. The side plates are a little cheesy, but the rest of it looks ok.


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

Walt,
Ha! I can actually *contribute* something!

I have one and it bends tubes just fine. The mechanics of the tool are fine. A couple of things: the dies that come with it are not great for the frame sized tubing. They will work, but will significantly flatten the tube wilst bending. This could be seen as a "feature". 

HF sells a "square tubing die set". These are the rollers with a square channel in them. They would make excellent blanks to lathe-up some size-specific dies. I had my machinist buddy put a triangle channel in a set to accomodate various sized tubing. I found that the triangle caused a crease in the tube (agian, could be a "feature"). I wrapped the bottom of the triangle with some wire to fill it in, and have now found that it works great for smaller tubing. I have not tried anything in the way of 1 - 1.5" in the triangle channel dies though.

It is a whole lot of back-and-forth to get a nice bend, and the last 6" on each end is no good. I'm not sure I believe that one can make a 2' dia circle with it, but that is not what you're looking for.

I'd say it's worth the price.

B


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## jocko (Apr 29, 2005)

I've got one. The dies included are not the same sizes as listed on the website. They are actually 1" 1 1/2" and 2". We rolled some 3/4" seat stays using the 1" die and the bend was nice, although using the larger die did ovalize the tube a bit. I think my buddy tried 1 1/8" .035 and got a good bend, but again fairly ovalized with the 1 1/2" die.

The larger tubes are slow-going and a good workout, but the roller does a decent job. We're trying to find someone to mill us some appropriately sized dies (mill the 1" to 1 1/8" and a new 3/4" die). With the right dies, I think it would do the job. I'm sure not as nice as the more expensive versions (like Garro has), but good enough for us hobby builders.

Joth
http://otiscycles.blogspot.com/


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I looked at those extra dies thinking I would just buy and modify them and build the rest of the machine myself. They are $50, seems like unless you can do your own machining that the total cost of them plus the machine is approaching something nice like the machine that Steve Garro has.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Dies might not be too hard...*

I've got a mill and a nice rotary table, so I imagine I could just get 1.125 and 1.25 end mills and machine the rollers myself. Maybe not. Rody, if you're reading - how did you make the rollers on your bender?

-Walt



unterhausen said:


> I looked at those extra dies thinking I would just buy and modify them and build the rest of the machine myself. They are $50, seems like unless you can do your own machining that the total cost of them plus the machine is approaching something nice like the machine that Steve Garro has.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Get hold of Garro at Coconino. Somewhere he asked the same thing as you, and went on to get a different (pro tools?) bender.

The plates being 'big enough' to do a low number of bends is different than being big enough to work correctly over the long haul.

Heh heh, better edit that part of your site where you pooh pooh bent tubes!

-Schmitty-


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*Yeah, yeah...*

In this case, I actually "need" to bend the tube in question for mechanical reasons. I'm not currently planning to do any curvy swervy toptubes. That's Steve's gig.

But yes, I am appropriately appalled at my own hypocrisy, for what it's worth. 

I have been cutting/welding at an angle to accomplish this, but I don't like the look very much, nor the need to reinforce the welded/kinked area for peace of mind.

Steve's setup is great, but I'm not super interested in spending $1k for this, as it's not something I think I'll be using a lot. I'm thinking I'll probably try some more plywood-form experiments before spending any money anyway.

-Walt



Schmitty said:


> Get hold of Garro at Coconino. Somewhere he asked the same thing as you, and went on to get a different (pro tools?) bender.
> 
> The plates being 'big enough' to do a low number of bends is different than being big enough to work correctly over the long haul.
> 
> ...


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

^^^Mechanical reasons? Feh. I just say this is another sign of the apocalypse. Go back to building track bikes.

;-D


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## j-ro (Feb 21, 2009)

I have one, it works great, I use it mostly on 5/8" for seatstays, I put the tube into a piece of 3/4" pex pipe which is a little more than 7/8" and roll it in the 1" die, it comes out with a flattening of less than a 100th of an inch. I'm gonna try an 1.125 tube sleeved into a piece of pex in the 1.5 die to see how it will work. 
@ unterhausen, steves machine comes with one die included for the price. the other dies are 250-300 bucks. Not a bad deal considering the quality, if I had more use for it I would be all over it, but if I can modify the extra set that they sell for 50 dollars I will be money ahead. The heavy lifting for the machining is already done with the groove being a half inch deep. If it works i'll post it up


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## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

Walt,

In short...

Buy the piece for the dies alone if they meet the tubing size needs you anticipate, I did...took the dies and threw the rest out. A cheap way to get started.

The bender I made cost me less than 350 bucks, but as always, the time invested is worth so much more. The dies for my three roll bender were spun down on the lathe using a laser cut pattern I had made and then affixed to the lathe for the carraige to follow. Time consuming but very accurate. You could also bolt blanks to the flat of a vertical rotary table and run the centerline of the stock into the lateral side of an endmill cutter, cuts well with less flex than using a ball end oriented into the piece.

Really, what you need to do is broach the fact that in custom fabrication, you really need more than one type of bending tool. I've got a three roll for long arcs, a JD2 for sharper bends and am finishing a new press style for stays and bars for ultra thin work with moderate angles.

Having the right tools make all the difference...


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

foo-foo bikes with curved tubes really aren't my style, but I promised my daughter I'd build her a frame so the first thing she said is "great, curved tubes please."


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Hey Rody, on the lathe template/carriage duplicator deal, couldn't a guy use a given radius gauge as opposed to getting templates special made?

That is a great way to kick things out on the lathe.

-Schmitty-

ps, mills can be used to roll tubes as well... horizontal a bit easier than vert.


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## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

Schmitty, yep on the first account

and 

I described how to roll tubes on a mill a few years back on FF if anyone cares to dig up the thread.

r


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## thrash (Feb 9, 2005)

*Try here for die sets -->*



jocko said:


> We're trying to find someone to mill us some appropriately sized dies (mill the 1" to 1 1/8" and a new 3/4" die). With the right dies, I think it would do the job.
> 
> Joth
> http://otiscycles.blogspot.com/


Here is a guy who is already making dies for this setup, I bet it would not be all that hard to convince him to do different sizes....

SWAG Offroad

[EDIT] I've emailed the guy who builds these enquiring about custom sized die sets, I'll post back up to let you know the response.


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

Walt: Here's another version of that tool, I'm sure it's of better build quality:
http://www.eastwood.com/ew-tubing-roller-with-3-dies.html

this one also:
http://www.pro-tools.com/m3roll.htm

of course, if you're bored, free plans:
http://www.pro-tools.com/200k.htm

bender is 549 + 180 per set of dies. With some time, you could probably knock out everything you 'need' with 2-3 sets of dies and build the bender.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

thrash said:


> Here is a guy who is already making dies for this setup, I bet it would not be all that hard to convince him to do different sizes....
> 
> SWAG Offroad
> 
> [EDIT] I've emailed the guy who builds these enquiring about custom sized die sets, I'll post back up to let you know the response.


1 1/8" would be nice.


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

I'm talking with Trow at Swag Offroad about other sizes on the dies for the Harbor Freight roller. What sizes would you guys like to see or most commonly use?


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## rustola (Jan 15, 2008)

FYI:

the harbor freight roller is on sale this weekend for $130.

Here's a link to the coupon for in store

or you can buy online and enter code #16953119 to get this price.

Just ordered one, came to $155 with tax and shipping...


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## MDEnvEngr (Mar 11, 2004)

I'd like a set of 1.125" ish for seat tubes.

B


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

MDEnvEngr: 1.25 is available from SwagOffroad.


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## rustola (Jan 15, 2008)

Brad Bedell said:


> MDEnvEngr: 1.25 is available from SwagOffroad.


He's looking for 1.125 (28.6mm), not the 1.25 (31.8mm) already available.

I'd be interested in that size as well. And possibly 0.75" for swoopy seat stays. Also, maybe just a straight V channel to accomodate a range of sizes. Obviously not ideal as far as bend quality, but better than using an oversized round die which would flatten (blatten?) the tube.


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

rustola said:


> He's looking for 1.125 (28.6mm), not the 1.25 (31.8mm) already available.
> 
> I'd be interested in that size as well. And possibly 0.75" for swoopy seat stays. Also, maybe just a straight V channel to accomodate a range of sizes. Obviously not ideal as far as bend quality, but better than using an oversized round die which would flatten (blatten?) the tube.


Good point. I forget the different size tubes at times.

In the past, I've had pretty decent success at packing pipes with sand and making bends for intercooler and exhaust pipes and using a standard muffler shop type bender when I've been in a pinch to finish up a project. Usually using .049 or .065 2.5"-3" diameter tubing. I've never tried it with smaller tubing.

Anyhow, I've pointed Trow at Swag to this thread. Hopefully something good will have come out of it.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

*1 1/8", 1 1/4", maybe 1"*

Those are probably the sizes that framebuilders would use, I think.

I doubt you'd want to use this type of bender for a seatstay or chainstay, since it's not really good at doing short-distance, tight radius bends (or so I think). But I could be wrong.

Brad, have you done any practice bending yet?

-Walt


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## rustola (Jan 15, 2008)

Walt said:


> I doubt you'd want to use this type of bender for a seatstay or chainstay, since it's not really good at doing short-distance, tight radius bends (or so I think). But I could be wrong.


I'm thinking about large radius bends for swoopy retrotec-style chainstays, not tight s-bends.

Also, note that 1" rollers already come with.


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## Brad Bedell (Apr 18, 2009)

Walt said:


> Those are probably the sizes that framebuilders would use, I think.
> 
> I doubt you'd want to use this type of bender for a seatstay or chainstay, since it's not really good at doing short-distance, tight radius bends (or so I think). But I could be wrong.
> 
> ...


Correct Walt, this bender won't do a tight radius. However, I suspect one could 'dimple' with it, but I'm not sure how accurate.

I have some 1" tubing that I picked up. Just cheap 18 gauge material from the local scrap yard. It does a very nice job; smooth rolls and doesn't distort the metal externally. I'm not sure I'd want to do anything 'mass produced' with it; it is slow and cumbersome to use. My 1.25" dies showed up today from Swag, they look nice. I hope to play with them this weekend.


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## Swag Off Road (Jun 2, 2010)

I thought I would come on board to tell you all that I am in the process of making 1.125" dies. I should have them up on my website in two weeks.

I appreciate the feed back. let me know what other sizes you need, you might just get lucky :thumbsup:

Troy Rutherford
www.swagoffroad.com


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## offroadcyclist (Feb 22, 2004)

*ordered the 1 1/8" dies*

I just ordered the 1.125 dies from Swag. I'll post up some results and pics once they arrive.


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## Swag Off Road (Jun 2, 2010)

I wanted to bump this to the top. I was contacted by a couple of bike builders on MTBR forum to create tubing roller dies for your application. I now have 15 different size dies sitting on my shelf.

I have the following die sizes listed below.
0.625" Round
0.750" Round
1.125" Round
1.250" Round
1.375" Round
1.625" Round
1.750" Round
0.500" Round Pipe
0.750" Round Pipe
1.000" Round Pipe
1.500" Round Pipe
0.75" Square
1.00" Square
1.50" Square
2.00" Square

Let me know if you have any questions.

Troy


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## offroadcyclist (Feb 22, 2004)

I ordered the 1.125 round die from him and I'm very happy with them.

He shipped them immediately and I received them within a couple of days. Considering the machining that goes into them, they seem like a very good deal to me. The quality is excellent, unlike the dies that come with the roller. The dies that come with the roller tend to ovalize the tube if bent beyond a fairly gradual bend, whereas the SWAG dies hasn't ovalized the tubes at all. Also, the set screws that come with the existing dies are quite sucky- the threads strip out of the die (I just ended up drilling out the hole and drilling through the shaft and used a pin that runs through it)

Here's a picture of a trike i'm building for my son which shows a tube I bent with the roller:


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

*Congrats!*

Walt has bit the bullet and joined us at the Imported tool bin and purchased one of these fine radius benders good luck with it :thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## BungedUP (Aug 18, 2003)

Ugh, I think my computer just got herpes from just trying to look at what y'all are talking about on the HF website.


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## illcomm33 (May 10, 2006)

Anyone looking to sell the 1.125 (1 1/8) dies?

I have the HF roller.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

*Hulk*

Swag has a new roller bender and if you have the HF one the dies interchange.

SWAG Tubing Roller "HULK"


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

I have wondered why he didn't just build a bender given that not that many parts of the HF bender are left if you use all the SWAG parts. Looks like a good option


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Well...

A difference of about $650 might have something to do with it. There are already plenty of $750-1000 rollers out there. For bike tubing, the HF works just fine... with some SWAG dies of course. The Hulk is complete overkill... for that.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Trail I'm with you on the cost thingy I just posted it because the rollers interchange so if you have HF one you can upgrade and still use the dies that you already have purchaced and it has adjustable roller widths plus it has the "Made in America" label which is very
Important to some folks.......and it has green flames!


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