# Bag Decision



## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

So as I am building my Ogre up for more serious touring and bikepacking, I am running about on my 2019 Stache 7. Love the bike and really do not do technical stuff to use the dropper seat that much so I am trying to figure out a bag system that I can begin with on the Stache and then move to the Ogre. 

Ultimately I will most likely use fork roll bags for stuff on the Ogre. 

I have been a bit back and forth on whether I want to add the structure and weight of a front and rear rack on it. 

As such, I have been looking and leaning toward the Apidura Expedition 17.5L tail bag to use on the Stache. I am running a Blackburn expandable frame bag that right now only holds tools and a spare tube. I will be moving those somewhere else. 

Anyhow, I am new to all this and I am wondering if the tail bag along with the frame bag will fit all my kit. I have not ordered the tail bag yet. 

So I need some input on that. Furthermore, after years of Motorcycle adventure biking I swapped from hard panniers to soft bags because I found them easier to deal with on long trips. I am trying to decide how that translates to the MTB touring thing. 

I feel like I danced around a few questions there....


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

And maybe the better question if I do stick with a tail bag is Apidura's 14L typically adequate verses the big 17L?


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

Surely someone has some advice here....


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## mnigro (Jul 31, 2007)

Im not being rude, seriously, but your post is so confusing that I’m not sure anyone can really respond. And, it’s been 17 hours, folks were sleeping most of that time 

I’m new to bike packing and have been reading a lot to try and figure out what I need. That’s why I jumped into this thread, thought there could be some good info based on your thread title. Not trolling your post.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

RatBikeRod said:


> Surely someone has some advice here....


Alright, I'll play. I run Revelate bags, a Ranger, iirc, in the main triangle, and the largest seat bag attached to the saddle rails and seatpost. Can't remember the name of the bag, but I don't see it on the Revelate website, so it's probably been updated and has a new name. To reduce costs, I use an Ortlieb dry bag (came with my ExtraWheel trailer for the road/gravel bike), 13L I think, just strapped to the H-bars (Jones) with the usual webbed nylon straps, nothing fancy. I have fork mounts for anything cages (I have Blackburn) and have a pair of 8L Sea to Summit dry bags to mount there...

I don't have much use for the dropper post that came on the bike, so I replaced it with a Thudbuster ST seatpost. The bike is a Trek 1120 (similar geo to your Stache, I read), now minus the orange racks for weight savings. I don't ride much singletrack, and I haven't been bikepacking much since I moved to Flatland, but if you can't fit your gear and supplies in those bags, you might be trying to carry too much stuff. And no, there's no suspension front or rear. Plus size tires and the Thudbuster seatpost are plenty smooth on any rocky rooty or washboard surfaces. Hope that helps.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

Thanks and sorry for the confusing content. DeadGrandp provided some insight especially being he is running teh 1120 which is my Trek but the BikePacking version. Truthfully, had I known I was going to go this path I would have gotten the 1120 when I bought the Stache to begin with. 

To clarify, I am trying to answer two basic questions;

First, for versatility it seems that soft/roll type bags that can transfer between bikes offer the best solution for me now and when I get the Ogre built. I was looking for experience with bags like this over hard (rack) mounted systems. I get I can load more on a rack system, but much like (and I alluded to this) on my Adv Motorcycle the more structure you have the more you tend to weigh down the bike and take too much. 

Second, from a size standpoint on saddle bags it seems like most of what I have read people go with a 15L (13-15 depending on brand) is more typically used than the larger sizes (like the 17L Apidura offers). Again, more space means that you typically just take more stuff you dont need. However, if I am wrong here on typical seat bag please let me know. 

Hope that is easier to understand.


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## mnigro (Jul 31, 2007)

Ok makes sense. I can’t provide much help selecting a bag but the best advice I got when starting down the same path as you are,
1. gather up what you think you will be packing on the average trip
2. figure out how much carrying capacity that requires
3. Determine if you’re packing too much sh!t.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

My tent and sleeping bag fit in the handlebar roll, but the tent is a Zpacks duplex and the bag is Western Mountaineering down, 30 or 35 degree rating. Both compress to fit in the ~5x20 inch sausage bag.

I seem to remember that the seat bag was 13L or something like that. I put my spare clothes, rain jacket and rain pants, cook kit, water filter. The heavier items should really go in the frame bag, but if in the seat bag, put them down deep next to the seatpost. The more you put in the seat bag, and the farther from the seatpost, the more the bag will wag and the more top heavy you will be. 

If you can, use fork mounts to carry the heaviest items, food and water, cook kit, stove and fuel. Weigh everything. The bags themselves are not light, but not as heavy as racks and panniers. If you have more than 12 pounds of non-consumables, you might have too much. More than 18 pounds, not including food and water, then you're definitely likely packing more than you need, and you will think about that on every uphill. Think minimalist, be minimalist, enjoy the adventure. Pack mules never really get to enjoy the adventure.


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## lentamentalisk (Jul 21, 2015)

Yeah, to underscore that, you need to FIRST gather your gear, THEN find bags to fit it all. Everyone has a different environment they are packing for, a different pace, and a different comfort level, so no to bikepacking setups will be alike. And don't forget your food.

Even if you're riding the same route, people have drastically different approaches. These are two different takes on riding the Great Divide:


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

Yea, I definitely want to go minimalist for sure. Today on my BMW I have all of my camping gear in about half of a 42L Wolfman drybag. I carry everything else in the Giant Loop side bags or top case. By comparison I have copious amounts of room.

Below is my current setup on the Stache 7 which the Blackburn frame bag extends to fill that lower area. With the setup on this bike I was just planning on using a saddle/tail bag but I will most likely have to mount my tent somewhere on the handlebars.

This all gets a lot easier on the Ogre once it is built. I am just trying to buy cautiously right now and not end up needing to change up much once I am done with that build.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

I was actually thinking about this RockBros' bag it is 12-14L


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

That looks like a good buy for a waterproof seat bag, but I urge you to add a frame bag that fills your triangle, not just half of the space... Keep your center of gravity as low as possible.
Heavy items, especially tools, spare tube or bottle of sealant, pump, water storage, should be in the middle of the bike and as low as possible. 

Put your down sleeping bag in the seat bag, and other bulky but lighter items, puffy jacket, etc. Too much weight over your rear wheel with none on your front wheel can negatively affect your bike handling, giving you a front end shimmy going downhill. Don't ask me how I know this.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

DeadGrandpa said:


> That looks like a good buy for a waterproof seat bag, but I urge you to add a frame bag that fills your triangle, not just half of the space... Keep your center of gravity as low as possible.
> Heavy items, especially tools, spare tube or bottle of sealant, pump, water storage, should be in the middle of the bike and as low as possible.
> 
> Put your down sleeping bag in the seat bag, and other bulky but lighter items, puffy jacket, etc. Too much weight over your rear wheel with none on your front wheel can negatively affect your bike handling, giving you a front end shimmy going downhill. Don't ask me how I know this.


You may have missed that I noted that the Blackburn bag expands to fill the space. So unzip the lower portion of the bag, pull it down and it straps to the downtube to completely fill the space and give me more room. I just have it unexpanded in that pic and I have my spare strapped on the downtube too.

My pump is in a side holder on the downtube as well on the other side of the bike. However, I agree that heavy stuff would be best there and I do keep my tools in the frame bag.

I will make another pic as I really have not expanded it since I put it on, lol


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Yes, I missed the details of the frame bag. I'd like to know if that Blackburn Frame bag works as advertised. I've had it in my shopping cart before, but held off buying it. 

For some reason the three pictures didn't materialize on my phone, but it sounds like you have a handle on the bags. Let us know, show us pictures, of your adventures.

Now get on with the details of your prospective Ogre build. What drive train, tires, and everything else?


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

Here is a bit better pic. The Blackburn is not perfect but that triangle is a bit wonky and hard to find a bag that really fits it. That bag will stay on the Stache due to that and I will get a new frame bag for the Ogre.

I am glad you asked because I had to completely change up the straps to work properly with the expanded setup. I will just leave it like that for the extra room. I should be able to easily fit my hydropack in it now.

Prompted me to move the spare tube too.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Unknown technical difficulties prevent me from viewing the pics, though I had no problem with the Amazon pics of the seat bag. Anyhow, the Revelate bags are high quality (or were 5+ years ago when I bought them), and if you have the dimensions of the Ogre triangle and can find a match from Revelate, I don't think you'll regret it at twice the price of the Blackburn. The frame bag from my Trek 1120 fit my Gf's Trek Madone perfectly.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Unknown technical difficulties prevent me from viewing the pics, though I had no problem with the Amazon pics of the seat bag. Anyhow, the Revelate bags are high quality (or were 5+ years ago when I bought them), and if you have the dimensions of the Ogre triangle and can find a match from Revelate, I don't think you'll regret it at twice the price of the Blackburn. The frame bag from my Trek 1120 fit my Gf's Trek Madone perfectly.


This forum and Imgur pic's. I really have no issue with any other!

Here is the Ogre build - https://forums.mtbr.com/bike-frame-discussion/surly-ogre-build-1147341.html#post14994831

Here it is;


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I have a different Revelate Frame bag on my paved/gravel road bike that fits that triangle perfectly. I leave it there permanently. Since all of my non touring miles are, by definition, "training rides", I bring extra water on every ride. Frame bags are great for that. I have tried the 3L water bladder in the frame bag, but it is sub optimal for me. You will figure out what works for you.


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

Ok, now I can see the Ogre pictures. I read some of the posts on your building thread, and I admire your tenacity and ambition to build up from a frame. I'm going to have to study up on YT bike mechanic videos. You have a fine project in progress. Where do you plan to explore? I'm trying to trick my gf into pushing us to a GDMBR ride. She's already thinking about doing a section of it, but I said, "Why not all of it at one go?" (There are certain fixed costs of getting to the starting point and back home from the end.)

She mumbled something about how we're not young anymore, blah blah blah, I pretended to not hear the rest.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

DeadGrandpa said:


> Ok, now I can see the Ogre pictures. I read some of the posts on your building thread, and I admire your tenacity and ambition to build up from a frame. I'm going to have to study up on YT bike mechanic videos. You have a fine project in progress. Where do you plan to explore? I'm trying to trick my gf into pushing us to a GDMBR ride. She's already thinking about doing a section of it, but I said, "Why not all of it at one go?" (There are certain fixed costs of getting to the starting point and back home from the end.)
> 
> She mumbled something about how we're not young anymore, blah blah blah, I pretended to not hear the rest.


I want to do some longer park based rides in Big Bend, New Mexico, Colorado and maybe Moab.

Of course I have wanted to do many of those on my BMW R1200GS Adventure too, but have only done Big Bend so far. Hard for me to get off work for long enough to do a big ride.

However, there are a boat load of places to ride in Texas that I have not explored yet. I have been trying to do more getting away from the city and doing rides but I am solo. So there is always a bit of danger there.

I have been on the fence about getting rid of my motorcycles (I also have a BMW R1100GS) because it is getting so dangerous to ride. Too many people on cell phones and since Covid everyone has forgotten how to drive. I only feel semi-safe in my truck.

My wife does not ride either motorcycles or bicycles, so I am on my own most of the time. Which is fine because I like solitude. I just have to be careful how much I push myself.

I am trying to do more touring to manage my weight and health. The Stache is a great bike, very nimble and fantastic on those big 29x3.00's. I plan on going 29 on the Ogre too, but will run Surly 2.5 Extraterrestrials..

As for the project, I have been building cars and bikes since I was 13. So 45 years....


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## DeadGrandpa (Aug 17, 2016)

I dunno. Each of us does a personal risk assessment for our own activities. I wish you well. Safe travels.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

I really appreciate everyone's input. Last night after having some insomnia last night I stumbled across the Portland Design Works Bindle Rack. I decided that this would provide me the ability to run a 5, 10 and 14 Liter dry bag and it will transfer from bike to bike.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

RatBikeRod said:


> I really appreciate everyone's input. Last night after having some insomnia last night I stumbled across the Portland Design Works Bindle Rack. I decided that this would provide me the ability to run a 5, 10 and 14 Liter dry bag and it will transfer from bike to bike.


hmmm....I might be looking into this as well....


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

str8edgMTBMXer said:


> hmmm....I might be looking into this as well....


REI carries them for $88. Here is a video to them as well. Pretty sweet.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

RatBikeRod said:


> REI carries them for $88. Here is a video to them as well. Pretty sweet.


that is good b/c their website is sold out... might have to pop over there to check em out


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## timsmcm (Dec 23, 2007)

RatBikeRod said:


> I really appreciate everyone's input. Last night after having some insomnia last night I stumbled across the Portland Design Works Bindle Rack. I decided that this would provide me the ability to run a 5, 10 and 14 Liter dry bag and it will transfer from bike to bike.
> 
> View attachment 1365133


That Ole brooks leather saddle is the very definition of a well worn hammock. Is it comfortable?


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

timsmcm said:


> That Ole brooks leather saddle is the very definition of a well worn hammock. Is it comfortable?


I truly wish that were mine but it is a stock photo from their web site.

It really does look like a well worn hammock.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

So REI got the Bindle rack to me really quickly. I was working from home today so that worked out perfectly. Install was a snap and I really like the setup. Even, sorta, made it work with my dropper post, although I will have to be careful with that.


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## Low Tech (Feb 3, 2021)

Curious in what you think of that Bindle rack now that you've had it, and hopefully used it, for a while?


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

RatBikeRod said:


> I was actually thinking about this RockBros' bag it is 12-14L


Yeah, definitely a good idea to put your weight up as high as possible on a mountain bike


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## Low Tech (Feb 3, 2021)

Jayem said:


> Yeah, definitely a good idea to put your weight up as high as possible on a mountain bike


 I would figure that's why they recommend "light but bulky" items in a seat bag, and the heavy stuff in your frame bag.
That bag is just for someone that has a lot of "light, bulky" items.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

Low Tech said:


> Curious in what you think of that Bindle rack now that you've had it, and hopefully used it, for a while?


I really like the versatility. The ability to just take off a jacket and strap it there or put a 14L dry bag. It allows for a lot of variation on what you have behind the seat.


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## Low Tech (Feb 3, 2021)

RatBikeRod said:


> I really like the versatility. The ability to just take off a jacket and strap it there or put a 14L dry bag. It allows for a lot of variation on what you have behind the seat.


 What about when it's empty? Does it rattle/move around, or do you have to pull it up tight to the seat?

I have an old StumpJumper HT that I use for riding trails (often rocky) and am also planning to use it for some trail camping. I'm trying to avoid having having something that is loose/noisy when not loaded. Also not looking to add a standard rear rack.
I do have a frame bag and planning to get a handlebar harness, so this is kinda the last nitch that I'm trying to fill.


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## RatBikeRod (Jun 27, 2019)

Low Tech said:


> What about when it's empty? Does it rattle/move around, or do you have to pull it up tight to the seat?
> 
> I have an old StumpJumper HT that I use for riding trails (often rocky) and am also planning to use it for some trail camping. I'm trying to avoid having having something that is loose/noisy when not loaded. Also not looking to add a standard rear rack.
> I do have a frame bag and planning to get a handlebar harness, so this is kinda the last nitch that I'm trying to fill.


It will definitely bounce around, so you need to keep it up pretty close to the seat. However, I do not really notice it back there much even when I leave it loose.


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