# 20" Mountain Bike Options



## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

So I've been looking for a 20" "mountain bike" for my 7yo daughter. What are my options? So far I've found the following ($MSRP):
Specialized Hotrock w/ Front Suspension - $370
Specialized Hotrock Rigid - $350
Gary Fischer - Precaliber - $320
Marin - Hidden Canyon - $350
Giant 2012 XTC Jr - $330
Giant Areva 20 - $320
GT Stomper - $295
GT Scamp - $295
Scott Scale - $380
Scott Contessa - $330
Raleigh Rowdy -?
Jamis X.20 - $280
Kona Maken - ?
Fuji Sandblaster - $
KHS - Raptor - $219
Trek MT 60 - ?
IBEX Alpine 320 - $380

Here is my criteria:
* At least a 6 speed grip shift.
* Lighter than heavier, so AL frame (but I'm not rich enough to go weight weenie)
* Front Shock is preferred if it's going to do something (my kid is super-light so I'm not sure if it will act like a rigid)
* Changeable Stem

Thanks in advance and I apologize if this topic has been posted to death... I suck at searches. I'm hoping to get some recommendations and hopefully I'll be able to find a deal on craigslist.

_*Updated list_


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## joe_bloe (Nov 18, 2010)

A number of people here have had good luck with the Marin Hidden Canyon. I picked one up a few weeks ago on Craigslist for $75.

Just a note on suspension forks for 20" bikes, it seems most of them don't do much except add weight. The fork on the Marin is very stiff, I can barely make it deflect, and I weigh 185.

My 6-y/o son is currently riding a Giant MTX 125 from about 2003. It's rigid 1x7, and he hammers it on the single track. I have done some judicious upgrades on it; carbon handlebar I picked up off CL for $25, some lighter wheels I happened upon by coincidence. It weighs 24 pounds, which isn't too bad for a kids' bike. The Marin weighs about the same with a suspension fork. (He'll be getting the Marin for Christmas).

Good luck!


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

There's the GT Scamp 20 as well. Haro Flightline is another.

I find the forks work well enough for the kids, but there are lemons now and then. The progressive ramp is very high due to it being such short travel. I've not had problems getting any of them to move by leaning on it. There are a few on the floors that do not budge, but I think they were bad. I do find RST forks to work a bit easier than SR Suntour. My kid's bikes have RST 200K (Hotrock 20) and SR Suntour M2025 (GT Scamp 20). I can gauge travel with a zip tie and/or marks on the fork, and there is quite a bit of movement on the trails. That said, if you believe it doesn't do anything, then get a bike with a rigid fork. The forks are simple spring forks, and you might be able to find a lighter rate spring. I'm not too sure on that though.

The bikes are fairly easy to get a bit below 25lb. Both my kid's bikes are a bit under 25lb with basic mods. My son's bike is probably a bit lighter as I did more work on it, and it is also under 25lb with a double chainring crank and a heavy BB. Not so easy to go to 20lb. The Giant XTC Jr 20/Giant Areva 20 is probably one of the lightest with a rigid fork.


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## LosAngeles (Aug 21, 2011)

Thanks for starting this thread. My 5 1/2 year old (tall for her age) Is ready to move on from her 16inch trek float. The Float is an amazing bike to teach a kid how to ride with no training wheels. I can't say enough good things about it. 

Im now looking for something really light weight that has at least 6 speeds, and a 20 inch rim. Bikes that are half the childs weight gotta be tough to push. We don't ride bikes that are half our weight.


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## alex_sdca (Apr 6, 2009)

Plenty of quality bikes on your list.

I also prefer a rigid bike at this level. My oldest is on an unsuspended Giant 125 and is learning how to pull the front wheel up over obstacles and keep rolling. This is a valuable skill for mtb and easier to do with a lighter front end. 

I had to check myself with the upgrade-itis though. After I bought some pedals for 30 bucks that saved half a pound over the ones that came with the bike, I found myself going crazy searching for more parts (like I always do with my own bikes).


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

I thought I'd mention my experience as well. 

I picked the Marin for the 14 speeds, but I found my son hated the grip shift. I replaced it with a trigger, much better, but a child this age doesn't have the finger/hand strength to shift a FD from the small ring to the large, so all the time searching for a 20 inch FD bike with 7 speeds was a waste of time.

I will say the suspension fork depends on what you're child will end up doing. His isn't really stiff and he's jumping off those black skateboard ramps you see kids with, so he's actually bottoming out his when he lands. If I didn't think he'd would be jumping, I'd go rigid.


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## imero (Aug 6, 2011)

I'm in the same boat - looking for a 20" MTB for my 6 year old son. He's currently riding a 20" Specialized Hotrock coaster, but definitely needs gears to help him with the hills.

I've looked at many of the bikes on your list and have narrowed things down to the 20" Specialized Hotrock 6 speed and the 20" Marin Hidden Canyon. I also looked at the 20" Giant XTC JR, but my son really wants a front "suspension" and the 20" Giant has a rigid fork.

Good luck with your search. Let us know what you buy.


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## jtmartin57 (Jul 11, 2006)

My oldest son started out on a Jamis X.20 (6-speed) when he was 6 & really grew w/ the bike. After a couple of seasons of riding it was evident that he had outgrown the Jamis skill wise so he graduated to a Scott Scale Jr. 24. That being said, the Jamis was great (albeit, heavy) for a first MTB but I believe we're gonna go w/ another Scott whenever our 5 yr old son moves up from his Redline Pitboss 16. For the money, the Scott Scale 20 & 24 are great little bikes which seem to be better spec'd than some of the other bikes in this category. Just my 0.02.

Good luck w/ your purchase!


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## LosAngeles (Aug 21, 2011)

Anyone figure out the lightest 20 inch bike with at least 6 gears. They all look to be about 25 lbs.


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## jasonclick (Sep 6, 2011)

so is a 20" bike the best for kids... say 8-9 years old? My wife and I are on the hunt for bikes and I'd like to get some for my boys as well. Their BMX bikes don't do to well on the trails.


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

LosAngeles said:


> Anyone figure out the lightest 20 inch bike with at least 6 gears. They all look to be about 25 lbs.


Similarly, I would like to know what a reasonable weight is. Is 25 lbs the standard?

BTW, I've been updating the list on the original post as suggestions come in.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

jasonclick said:


> so is a 20" bike the best for kids... say 8-9 years old? My wife and I are on the hunt for bikes and I'd like to get some for my boys as well. Their BMX bikes don't do to well on the trails.


Kids vary too much in size to say X fit 8-9 year olds. My son has been on a 20inch while he was 8-9, but he's small for his age. Looking at other kids his age, they'd be on 24s.

Take them to a shop and see what they fit.


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## innovator8 (Sep 6, 2011)

I have a Giant MTX125 for my 6yo, and he loves it! It is rigid, but I think that is good at this age, lighter bike and he will learn better I think, besides, he has to pay his does.

I got it from craigslist for 75 bucks.


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## SuperJETT (May 28, 2008)

One thing to consider, a 26" bike at those prices is bottom of the line. The main differences between a 20" and 26" are a frame and wheel size which equates to just a lb or two of material. You'll have to spend quite a bit of money to drop the weight substantially.

I bought a 2 year old Precaliber for our 5 year old son for $85 off craigslist in perfect shape. The fork was super stiff like all of them, but after taking the plastic cap out and cutting off half the threads to relieve some tension it does actually move while he's riding, so that's an idea to help a little.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

LosAngeles said:


> Anyone figure out the lightest 20 inch bike with at least 6 gears. They all look to be about 25 lbs.


Look for a rigid fork. The Giant XTC Jr. 20 is around 23lbs, IIRC.



William_Cannon said:


> Similarly, I would like to know what a reasonable weight is. Is 25 lbs the standard?
> 
> BTW, I've been updating the list on the original post as suggestions come in.


26-27lbs seem to be the norm, in stock form. Bulk of the weight in tires and heavier bits, and can be reduced to 25lbs with minor cost (stem, handlebar, tires, tubes, seatpost, and seat). To get under, in my experience, requires things like new wheels, bottom bracket, cranks, etc. and gets much more expensive.


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

Pick'ns are slim on CL. So far I've found an 06' Fuji Sandblaster for $80. However, it weights in at 27lbs I believe.


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## CheesePuff (Apr 20, 2010)

We bought our daughter a KHS Raptor when she was 8. :thumbsup:

It's a great bike and weighs in at 26 lbs., but feels really light. It also takes alot of abuse. We took it to the local mountain (swamp) bike trails and other than the really steep technical hills, she was able to get through it well.

She loved it and only recently outgrew the bike. Now I'm prepping it for our youngest.


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## Phantom67 (Sep 27, 2011)

We got our 7 y/o a Scott scale 20Jr, it weights around 24 lbs. He loves it! Shocks are not great but at his age he wants shocks like his dad.


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

craigslist has been a bust for 3 weeks plus. The only thing I've found has been older bikes that are on the heavier side (26 lbs) with quill stems. I was hoping to find something closer to 25 lbs without a quill type stem so I could more easily find different size stems. I started another thread and it appears that several disagree with ruling out bikes with quill stems, but I couldn't find small stems that easily. Sigh....


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## PghYinzer (Sep 28, 2011)

jasonclick said:


> so is a 20" bike the best for kids... say 8-9 years old? My wife and I are on the hunt for bikes and I'd like to get some for my boys as well. Their BMX bikes don't do to well on the trails.


My son will be 8 in Nov and is on a 24". He's tall, though.


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## William_Cannon (May 5, 2009)

Any other thoughts on how to get a good bike on the cheap?


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*One more option*



William_Cannon said:


> Any other thoughts on how to get a good bike on the cheap?


Not exactly "cheap", but 7 speed, Shimano Altus shifters/derailleurs, Tektro V's, Alex rims, Formula hubs, Spinner Grind fork.

IBEX Bicycles. Mountain Bikes 29ers hardtails full suspension carbon fiber.

I've purchased two bikes from this company, and both were well worth the money.

Bob


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

William_Cannon said:


> Any other thoughts on how to get a good bike on the cheap?


wait for season closeouts, or spring cleaning from parents. choice of bikes is slimmer in cooler weather than when it starts to warm up. if it's not urgent, just wait it out.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I started with a Precaliber and liked itbut I lightened it up a little and improved the gears and shifter. Also threw on XT V brakes. Only problem is now, he's outgrowing it and it's killing me because I got it all dialed in nice.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

A few of you mentioned upgrading the little ones' 20" mtbs -- what components did you use? sizes? 

I have bought a Haro V20 for my son (a 4 yr old, who is the size of an avg 5/6 yr old) and he can ride it comfortably after taking off an inch off the seat post. But I think the bike still approaches 50% of his mass, so some lighter would be better! <I guess that's always true... 

I don't know yet if he's compressing this coil spring fork any-- I doubt it. So wondering about ditching that for a nice light fork. Or handlebars might be easy. 

Looking forward to hearing what y'all found,
(I didn't find a thread specifically for this, so maybe we should start one?)


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

rabitoblanco said:


> A few of you mentioned upgrading the little ones' 20" mtbs -- what components did you use? sizes?
> 
> I have bought a Haro V20 for my son (a 4 yr old, who is the size of an avg 5/6 yr old) and he can ride it comfortably after taking off an inch off the seat post. But I think the bike still approaches 50% of his mass, so some lighter would be better! <I guess that's always true...
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bother to be honest- I started this on my kids and they just out grew the 20'' bikes too fast. Save the money for a nice 24'' bike.

It would be different if you had 2 or 3 kids that could all inherit the bike.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/kids/riprock-20/118238

I wish they made this Riprock when my son was small. I woulda just got that.


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## Slow poke (Jul 23, 2013)

NYrr496 said:


> https://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/kids/riprock-20/118238
> 
> I wish they made this Riprock when my son was small. I woulda just got that.


ooooh thats nice- and worth it. don't have to put any more money into it.
Also, i would look for a good 24" frame on craigslist and build it up slowly and have it ready for when he is ready to transition. Or put money away and buy a tail craft or something like that. I bought a 24" specialized hot rock for both my kids off craigslist. I bought my daughters last year and been accumulating parts. it will be ready soon. i found a mint 2015 24" hot rock for $50. only need to buy the tailcraft crank now. theres nothing like never losing a chain on kids bikes.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Speshy makes that Riprock in 24" also.


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## BigGuylbs (Apr 20, 2004)

This thread looks like it was raised from the dead so I don't know how relevant this response will be but our boys rode Trek Superfly 20's from age 5 to 7. Weight is under 19lbs and you can just let some air out of the tires to allow them to suck up some trail chatter. The boys handled the intermediate runs at big bear in Socal on them (although the park rangers were convinced the v-brakes were going to self combust!) apparently these guys never rode when all we had were v-brakes. We have since upgraded them to 24" bikes but at the expense of several lbs. However, the larger wheels certainly improve confidence on steeper decents.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I know what you're sayin' about the 24" weight penalty. I built my son 24" wheels with Sun Ringle' Ryno Lites and Maxxis Sniper tires. They were really heavy but they really upped his ability to ride singletrack. 
These wheels cost more to build than my 29+ wheels.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

BigGuylbs said:


> This thread looks like it was raised from the dead so I don't know how relevant this response will be but our boys rode Trek Superfly 20's from age 5 to 7. Weight is under 19lbs and you can just let some air out of the tires to allow them to suck up some trail chatter. The boys handled the intermediate runs at big bear in Socal on them (although the park rangers were convinced the v-brakes were going to self combust!) apparently these guys never rode when all we had were v-brakes. We have since upgraded them to 24" bikes but at the expense of several lbs. However, the larger wheels certainly improve confidence on steeper decents.


The Superfly 20 is definitely not the best option in rigid 20-inchers anymore. For the same price (actually, $20 _less_ based on MSRP), Orbea's MX20 Team is a clearly superior bike:

https://www.orbea.com/cn-en/bicycles/mx-20-team

-8sp 11-34 drivetrain w/ triggers vs. gripshift 6sp 14-28
-127 mm spidered crankset vs. 150 mm fixed-chainring crankset
-2.1" tires vs. 1.85" tires
-Superior geo (slacker HTA and shorter chainstays)
-Possibly lighter thanks to hydroformed tubes throughout. Definitely better aesthetics.

Another $100 for the disc version gets you Shimano hydro discs and a wheelset upgrade: https://www.orbea.com/cn-en/bicycles/mx-20-team-disc

Seriously, my hat is off to Orbea for making bikes of this quality at these prices. They are way out in front of any other major bike company right now.


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## Kingfisher2011 (Nov 1, 2011)

Obviously we're resurrecting here, but still great info. For how they're spec'ing that bike and the pricepoint that thing should be a competition crusher. None of the Shimano Tourney components + rigid up front. I bet it beats most of the other competitors by a couple pounds to boot. Too bad I don't own one.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

TwoTone said:


> I wouldn't bother to be honest- I started this on my kids and they just out grew the 20'' bikes too fast. Save the money for a nice 24'' bike.
> 
> It would be different if you had 2 or 3 kids that could all inherit the bike.


Thanks for pointing out especially that last bit-- I'm just worried (excited?) that he'll be in this 20" for a while, as he's 4yrs old now-- but thinking it through, he may well also just keep growing, since age vs. kids' sizes is a complete crapshoot!

Meanwhile, it does need tires, and the grip shifter's really not working out for his little hands-- so I will be looking to do those basic maintenance upgrades.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

rabitoblanco said:


> Thanks for pointing out especially that last bit-- I'm just worried (excited?) that he'll be in this 20" for a while, as he's 4yrs old now-- but thinking it through, he may well also just keep growing, since age vs. kids' sizes is a complete crapshoot!
> 
> Meanwhile, it does need tires, and the grip shifter's really not working out for his little hands-- so I will be looking to do those basic maintenance upgrades.


My kids 20" lasted months (9 I think) ! He got it aged 5 and was only just big enough but by 6 he was only just big enough for a 24"....
As we parents know expensive things happen in 9 months!!!

You are never going to really get the weight down on a 20" because the frame weight is almost irrelevant.... and the drive train weighs what it weighs...

You could get a 10 or 11sp hug and cassette and chuck in a XTR/XX0 spec if money is no object but it will still be heavy compared to the kid... in the end everything is about the link length on chains which is "adult sized"... so the chain ring tooth spacing, cassette tooth spacing etc. etc. is all built "adult"....

You can save some weight cheap on tires, bars, stem, saddle and seatpost... $20 gets you a decent (ebay) carbon bar and decent stem ... (easily strong enough for kids) but I have with the benefit of hindsight realised you are still just upgrading a BMX with gears....

Just my 2c but I'd completely agree with TwoTone.... save the money for a 24"


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## DigitalBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

Long time lurker here. Agree with the above comments, but would add the following. I've been adding/upgrading components on my son's 20" (Giant XTC Jr 20 Lite) and it has been money well spent. Riding it from 5, he is 7.5 now and above average height. He has ridden the snot out of it and we've both got a lot of enjoyment out of the process (both the upgrades and the rides). I tend to upgrade it as he outgrows something - not in height, but skill level/need. Latest was putting on a new rear wheel with freehub so I can swap out cassettes rather than being stuck with limited freewheel options. Also put on new cranks and smaller chainring. Gives way more climbing ability - was fine for street, path type riding, but tough on more challenging singletrack. We have taken this little thing on black trails and don't regret a minute of it. $ have been manageable and selective ie sales or parts from my parts bin.

I do have a nice 24" built, and he rides it occasionally, but it is still a little stretched. He is still so much more comfortable on the 20" and throws it around easily. Probably has another 6 months left of life in it.

Weight is tough as mentioned - components are all grown-up parts, so way over-engineered for his needs. But weight is not everything - think of how you can throw around a 26" vs 29er, even at the same weight. He is just much more confident on the 20" and his riding skill shows it (I'm the one yelling "slow down"  ). I know it's a matter of time, he really wants to ride his 24" so one day he will just dump the 20".

Will one day post the upgrade details in case it helps others. But basically cheap ebay carbon bar, stem, post. Rear wheel with freehub, rear mech, cables and trigger shifter, BB, crank and chainring. Nobby tires helped too.

Super fun father/son project - working on the bike together is part of the fun of the sport and teaches them the importance of understanding your machine, maintenance, respect etc.

btw - picked it up on craigslist for nearly nothing, so haven't really put that much into it in total. Was a great option rather than buying new and then spending even more.

db


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

rabitoblanco said:


> Thanks for pointing out especially that last bit-- I'm just worried (excited?) that he'll be in this 20" for a while, as he's 4yrs old now-- but thinking it through, he may well also just keep growing, since age vs. kids' sizes is a complete crapshoot!
> 
> Meanwhile, it does need tires, and the grip shifter's really not working out for his little hands-- so I will be looking to do those basic maintenance upgrades.


If you want some light tires I have two brand new Schwalbe Mow Joe 20x2 that never made it on the bike before it was time to sell it.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

DigitalBoy said:


> Long time lurker here. Agree with the above comments, but would add the following. I've been adding/upgrading components on my son's 20" (Giant XTC Jr 20 Lite) and it has been money well spent. Riding it from 5, he is 7.5 now and above average height. He has ridden the snot out of it and we've both got a lot of enjoyment out of the process (both the upgrades and the rides). I tend to upgrade it as he outgrows something - not in height, but skill level/need. Latest was putting on a new rear wheel with freehub so I can swap out cassettes rather than being stuck with limited freewheel options. Also put on new cranks and smaller chainring. Gives way more climbing ability - was fine for street, path type riding, but tough on more challenging singletrack. We have taken this little thing on black trails and don't regret a minute of it. $ have been manageable and selective ie sales or parts from my parts bin.
> 
> I do have a nice 24" built, and he rides it occasionally, but it is still a little stretched. He is still so much more comfortable on the 20" and throws it around easily. Probably has another 6 months left of life in it.
> 
> ...


All good points... I'm all for those changes though the biggy is the wheel ... because by the time you make a decent one its $150 by the time you add a cassette, spokes and hub...then you need shifters, rear mech and find a 10/11 chain-ring that fits the cranks

In our case (and due to local riding conditions and a special type of mud) a huge driver for me was getting rid of rim brakes... I had to true the wheel almost every week as anything over 1mm out of true was painful on my ears.. and any bigger gap on the pads and his brakes didn't stop him on the big wet descents...

What I did find is my parts bin took a huge hit with the 24... especially all the stuff I had bought at discount ... I had a lovely KMC-X10SL destined for my XC bike .. my spare XT stuff all disappeared... and now it seems my bikes are using his spares rather than the other way round 

The 24er took a good 15+ minutes... to be fair it was too big for him but I took the advice of one of the kids coaches/bike hire guys who said to give him a good 15 minutes...

The first few minutes he was all over ... but after 10-15 he was comfortable even though he was a little stretched. The biggest difference was changing the cranks to something even half sensible... this made a HUGE difference...

Most 24ers simply have completely incompatible cranks... in fact some have what would be med-large adult if the bike was a DH bike... I think his 24er came with 152mm which is ridiculous, scale that up and its like having 200mm on a medium adult bike

Since the crank change he's grown so he's gone from a 29er to a 650B or possibly even 26er... the bike has annoyingly long chainstays... though this might come in useful as I just found I can squeeze in a 26er rear wheel with an indoor tire to use on a trainer...


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## DigitalBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

yeah, agree on the whole wheel/disc thing. Just not worth it for a 20". I went with a prebuilt Dahon wheel ($80 I think it was). Wheel, hub, spokes etc all laced up. Would not have bothered normally, but as the gearing was so wrong on this bike (OK for street, too tall for singletrack), I didn't really have a choice. Also enabled 9 speed options vs original 7. And I had chainrings, mechs, shifters etc, so was basically free for me from there. His 24 is higher spec'd - air shock, disc etc

My only point here is that although I 100% agree it is not worth spending $2k on a 20" bike that lasts a year or so, for me I was able to get a cheap used bike with a good base and reasonable $ upgrade options. Totally transformed his riding, he has enjoyed it, I have as well as we've gone places he could not otherwise have managed.

Hear ya on the cranks - most are ridiculous. The long chain stay comment I agree, but also kinda supports my argument. They learn good bike control, balance/weight shifting etc on a smaller bike. He is controlling the bike rather than the other way around. He throws that thing around like crazy vs his buddies on 24". There is 1 big issue of course. Big diff between a 20" and 24" wheel - makes a huge difference when you hit something (bigger roots, rocks etc). If he gets it wrong, he STOPS dead. Again, has been good forcing him to learn weight distribution on the bike. All in all, has set him up nicely for the transition to 24.

db


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Just throwing this out if anyone knows someone looking for a nice 24'' bike, let me know. My son and daughter have outgrown theirs.

Going to wait closer to spring to list them on here. One is a completely upgrade Marin Bayview Disc and the other is a slightly upgrade Cannondale Girls Race 24 w/ disk.


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## rabitoblanco (Feb 21, 2017)

DigitalBoy said:


> Will one day post the upgrade details in case it helps others. But basically cheap ebay carbon bar, stem, post. Rear wheel with freehub, rear mech, cables and trigger shifter, BB, crank and chainring. Nobby tires helped too.
> 
> Super fun father/son project - working on the bike together is part of the fun of the sport and teaches them the importance of understanding your machine, maintenance, respect etc.


Maybe start a new thread called "upgrades available to 20" bikes"? 
While we understand it isn't cost-effective to invest 2 grand into one of these, there are clearly various circumstances where we need to change parts, and having a reference for some of the available upgrades/options would surely be great! We could take all the various suggestions made here, and people could add...

As for me, I've saved about 300g by throwing on a lighter seat I had around, and taking off the kickstand! Had Rowan (4) try a neighbor's Shimano RevoShift 6-speed shifter on a new Trek bike, and he could shift that very easily-- so I will be sidestepping the whole new wheel/cassette idea and just trying the $13 RevoShift grip-shifter with new cable to see how that goes! (Options for 6-speed are that grip shift, or a Tourney trigger as far as I can see) I've also realized that the deraileurs a Shimano while the shifter was a SRAM, and it seems that can cause some issues as well.

TwoTone--I had of course ordered tires about 2 hours before I saw your post!


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## DigitalBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

rabitoblanco said:


> so I will be sidestepping the whole new wheel/cassette idea and just trying the $13 RevoShift grip-shifter with new cable to see how that goes! (Options for 6-speed are that grip shift, or a Tourney trigger as far as I can see) I've also realized that the deraileurs a Shimano while the shifter was a SRAM, and it seems that can cause some issues as well.


I swapped out the revo for a sram twist initially. Much better and fully Shimano compatible. Key to all this is super clean rear mech, aligned hanger, clean cassette/chainring and clean and lubed chain. Finally, the actual shift cable needs to be straight (no kinks), clean and lubed.

I know all that is obvious to you guys, but it's super important for kids. Otherwise those twist shifters are just impossible for tiny hands (I hate those things with a passion, but admit they are good for kids to learn). I swapped out to triggers once I put the new hub/cassette on.

Yep, another reason I wanted to get away from 6 speeds. Very limited in decent upgrades - the semi-decent Acera trigger shifters only start from 7-speed I think (although some fancy setup with limit stops and cable routing can make it work for 6sp freewheel)

If it helps, this is sram shifter I used - better than the revo imo and can be had in 6sp
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C15HS2

db


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

Steve-XtC said:


> My kids 20" lasted months (9 I think) ! He got it aged 5 and was only just big enough but by 6 he was only just big enough for a 24"....


But, if he was 'just' big enough for a 24" bike, doesn't it mean that he should have used his 20" bike for one more year?

It's better for the kid to grow out of the former bike, than grow into his next bike.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

oren_hershco said:


> But, if he was 'just' big enough for a 24" bike, doesn't it mean that he should have used his 20" bike for one more year?
> 
> It's better for the kid to grow out of the former bike, than grow into his next bike.


The 20" was a money pit ... OK new Tourney parts are cheap but they break all the time in normal offroad use (they are not actually designed for offroad use).

He got past what the bike could handle

Upgrading in any meaningful way for single track meant at least new back wheel...(with cassette) and it would still have had rim brakes and essentially been a BMX with gears. Due to our local mud rim brakes are nasty when adjusted to kids hands so this basically meant I had to true the wheel every week. 
The bike weighed more than his current 24er and 20" wheels simply don't roll well up 12" roots... and a suspension fork that works would cost a fortune if even possible to source.

.... a whole list of things really that made riding less enjoyable for me and him.

The 24er completely changed everything.

Back then I didn't know he'd want to race but he just completed his first XC and no-one in the Top 10 was riding a 20" bike in the under 9's. No way would he ride our normal weekend trails ...


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## natepac (Dec 5, 2007)

*Dahon durability*



DigitalBoy said:


> yeah, agree on the whole wheel/disc thing. Just not worth it for a 20". I went with a prebuilt Dahon wheel ($80 I think it was). Wheel, hub, spokes etc all laced up. Would not have bothered normally, but as the gearing was so wrong on this bike (OK for street, too tall for singletrack), I didn't really have a choice. Also enabled 9 speed options vs original 7. And I had chainrings, mechs, shifters etc, so was basically free for me from there. His 24 is higher spec'd - air shock, disc etc
> 
> My only point here is that although I 100% agree it is not worth spending $2k on a 20" bike that lasts a year or so, for me I was able to get a cheap used bike with a good base and reasonable $ upgrade options. Totally transformed his riding, he has enjoyed it, I have as well as we've gone places he could not otherwise have managed.
> 
> ...


I've been looking at these wheels as an upgrade for my sons xtc jr 20. How durable are these wheels since they are for a "folding" bike? Was there a decent weight savings when compared to the heavy stock wheels?


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## DigitalBoy (Dec 28, 2016)

natepac said:


> I've been looking at these wheels as an upgrade for my sons xtc jr 20. How durable are these wheels since they are for a "folding" bike? Was there a decent weight savings when compared to the heavy stock wheels?


Wheels have been very durable to date - everything is over-engineered when it comes to kids bikes. Everything is made to withstand 200 lbs+ so a 50 lbs kid just won't stress it. I didn't weigh it, but didn't recall a massive weight saving. I may have shaved something, but it wasn't my goal. I wanted to move to a freehub/cassette and get more options on the drivetrain. Stock bike is geared way too tall for singletrack (it's fine for neighborhood stuff). I ended up with an 8 speed 11-36 (vs 14-28 stock). For me, it was well worth the upgrade cost. Swap was dead simple - dropout width was the same etc, only had to tweak the brakes as the rim is narrower. Also swapped the cranks (stock cranks I'm sure are cast iron...) so that helped with weight and allowed me to move to a 34T. Obviously changed to trigger shifters vs. terrible twisters. Had an old Deore rear mech, so this thing now shifts like butter. Overall, haven't sunk thousands into this bike and it has opened up his riding options and skill development. My riding buddies can't believe what he is capable of vs their kids. He just seems so much further advanced, but honestly, I put it down to the bike vs. their stock 30lb anchors the poor kids are dragging around.

Only thing left stock on this bike is the frame and brakes. The rest was a combo of selective purchases/sales etc, and raiding the parts bin. If just looking at $, it is not worth it (I'll lose something on the sale for sure). But the enjoyment he (and therefore I) have got out of this makes it worth every penny. No regrets.

With kids, weight is everything, followed closely by geometry and gear ratios. Get those 3 right and YOU will enjoy riding not just them.

Took him to DuPont the other weekend and rode a couple black loops. Others on the trail looked in disbelief...pretty sure this was the first 7 yr old and/or 20" bike on this mountain. Trail details and couple pics below. Fun times.

Hope that helps, sorry for the lecture 

db

https://www.trailforks.com/route/freehub-magazine-big-rock-loop/


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Not a budget option (unless you're comparing to Lil Shredder), but we are still loving our Flow: www.flowkidsbikes.com


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

DigitalBoy said:


> Took him to DuPont the other weekend and rode a couple black loops. Others on the trail looked in disbelief...pretty sure this was the first 7 yr old and/or 20" bike on this mountain. Trail details and couple pics below. Fun times.
> 
> Hope that helps, sorry for the lecture
> 
> ...


If you need armor or thought about it, I found that using adult elbows for kids knees/shins worked. In our case I used Alpinestars Paragon Elbows for knees. The Paragon adult elbow is exactly the same as the knees scale wise, except for being much smaller. For ex. my 4'10 11yr old uses medium elbow pads for his knees.


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