# Raleigh RX24 - Modified



## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

So... I just cant leave well enough alone. My son has been wanting this bike for about a year and with me planning on doing a full season of CX this year I decided to take the plunge... but then upgraded a bunch of stuff.

- Trailcraft Cranks
- Trailcraft saddle
- S-works Seapost
- SRAM X-0 Rear derailleur
- SRAM S-Series Hydralic Brakes
- Shimano SPDs

I might re-lace the wheels with lighter hubs... I have two sets of hubs I could use, but thats a big expense and I'm kinda glad to be done with the build for now.

Hopefully we get to some races this fall.









Sean


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Very nice whip Melchionda!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

You weigh it yet?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I've been thinking of doing a road/cross for my guy, but just wasn't impressed a whole lot by the frames etc of what I was seeing. This Raleigh looks pretty good. I'm inspired for sure.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Looks sweet! 

No carbon bars? Poor kid.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

jochribs said:


> You weigh it yet?


21.6 lbs


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

jochribs said:


> I've been thinking of doing a road/cross for my guy, but just wasn't impressed a whole lot by the frames etc of what I was seeing. This Raleigh looks pretty good. I'm inspired for sure.


It is really great.... and even though I modifed ours, you really dont have to. Plus the new price of $539 I think is a good value. After a few years of riding it we should be able to pass it on and get some of the money back.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Where did you find it for $539?


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Where did you find it for $539?


Amazon


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## chavist93 (Aug 13, 2010)

melchionda said:


> Amazon


$419 plus $20 shipping on the raleigh website.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Huh? I'll have to look again. Was 649 or so on Raleigh site just today.


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## chavist93 (Aug 13, 2010)

You just have to sign up for an account, log in and it brings the price down to 419.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yup, still is. Where are you seeing that?


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Gotcha, thanks!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I sign up. No changy on pricey.


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## chavist93 (Aug 13, 2010)

No problem. Just Google raleigh corporate account.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, that didn't work. Hmmmmmmmm.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Ordered! Melchionda, hopefully mimicry is flattery because I plan to copy a lot of what you did, lol! 

I do plan to throw his mountain wheels in it to see if they will clear with some skinnies. Apparently, the RX is built around the 540 etrto standard and the only options for that is wheelchair tires. The tires seem ok, but there aren't a lot of options. So, I want to see if 507's will open up more room for volume and more tire options.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

jochribs said:


> Ordered! Melchionda, hopefully mimicry is flattery because I plan to copy a lot of what you did, lol!
> 
> I do plan to throw his mountain wheels in it to see if they will clear with some skinnies. Apparently, the RX is built around the 540 etrto standard and the only options for that is wheelchair tires. The tires seem ok, but there aren't a lot of options. So, I want to see if 507's will open up more room for volume and more tire options.


You mean like this?

These are Stans Crest Mk3 Rims with Circus Monkey Carbon hubs. Built by Matthew Larsen Wheelbuilding in Spokane Washington. He did a great job.

We are running tubeless with IslaBikes CX tires.

Bike now weighs 18lbs

My son noticed an immediate difference.






​


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah!!! Exactly like that!!! Got any pictures of the seat stay/chainstay clearance? I know the fork has plenty. What do you think you lost, maybe 5-10mm of diameter?


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

Ill get that picture for you at some point... I've just been super busy with stuff. Havnt been able to ride this bike for real yet. (Friggin soccer season.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

No worries! So the bike came in last Thurs. It was quickly obvious that there were some alignment issues, but Raleigh has been awesome. Whole new bike on the way. Super impressed and grateful in how they've handled it. 

Got some DT350/Stans wheels planned that will do double time between his hardtail and this bike. Can't wait to get everything so that I can lace them up. 

I hear ya on soccer season. Kinda glad my son passed on that after a season. I'm strapped with the coaching during snowboard season though. Oh man....


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Just digging this thread up, as I'm looking to do something similar. I probably won't spring for the full hydro brakes, but do plan to swap out the mechanicals for something lighter/better (prob TRP Spyre or TRP Hy/Rd, though the latter add some weight). Kinda kicking myself for ditching my S-series hydros when I upgraded to 11sp.

My plan is to have this serve dual-purpose for CX and road. Looks like a 26" (559 bsd) rim with 28mm tires would measure out to same size as the stock 540 w/ 37mm tires. I've ordered some 24h old-school (light & narrow) SunRingle UFO rims that I plan to use for the road wheels.

I'm also interested in any photos of frame tire clearance. E.g. might a 650C wheel also fit in these? Raleigh has indicated that the fork axle-to-crown is 354mm, but I suspect the frame is a bit tighter than that.

And also interested in running 24" 507 rims w/ big tires -- would 2.1 tires fit? 

(Raleigh did specifically say that this configuration wasn't recommended.)

Appreciate any feedback. I love kids bike projects!


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

I would recommend that you save the money that you would spend on the extra wheel set and spend that on hydro brakes. You can still find 1x10 sram hydro brakes on the internet for a decent price. The stock wheels are significantly bigger than normal 24" wheels and work well as road wheels. (ISO 540 vs ISO 507). If you look at my two pics posted in this thread you can see the difference in the wheel sizes. The Stans Crest 24" wheels are a good bit smaller than the stock wheels on the Raleigh. So I would recomend you buy a decent set of slick road tires to fit the stock rims. I think that the rims that come stock on the Raliegh RX24 are actually wheelchair rims. So maybe look for road tires for a racing wheelchairs. But really any tire with the right ISO measurement should work.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

I'm not finding great deals on S700 levers -- Apex seems cheaper, but we're still talking at least $350 for the 1x set. Are you urging the brake upgrade because the smaller hands have trouble applying the force needed to stop with the mechanicals?

Yeah, I understand that the rx24 uses the 540 size, which is why I'm planning to build a 26" 559 wheelset, which will be the same diameter when outfitted with 28mm tires (or a little less with 25mm tires). 28mm tires aren't very common in 559 size, but not impossible. I'll probably use Schwalbe One tires. Too bad there's no tubeless. The wheelset will be quite inexpensive (sub-$200) and should save a lot of weight.

The 507 rims with 2.1" tires would also be the same diameter as the 540 w/ the 37mm stock CX tires:
>>> (53*2) + 507
613
>>> (37*2) + 540
614

-- though I suspect the chainstays won't clear a 2.1" tire. -- I'm also not exactly sure why that sounds like a good idea, since my son has a 24" (507) MTB already w/ Crest rims.


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

I was suggesting the brake upgrade because I found the mechanical brakes to be difficult to adjust and also didnt work that great. Also, I did find a pretty good deal on them so it made sense at the time. If you already have a set of Stans wheels you could change the tires and use them on the cross bike for cross season and then switch back over the mountain bike when its time for MTB action. (Thats what we are doing)


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Oh, ok. I've had good experience with TRP Spyres when paired with good rotors, so I'll start there. I expected that the stock calipers (and probably rotors) were junk.

I think I will also use a Trailcraft crank with a 36t or 38t NW X-Sync ring. I'll see if they'll sell their direct-drive cranks w/o a chainring. Was concerned about q-factor, but probably not worth thinking about. And then probably a GX or otherwise inexpensive 10sp clutch RD and a gently-used XTR 11-36t cassette. I have a carbon 27.2 post + light saddle + light stem. I assume even these upgrades will bring the bike well above MSRP


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Don't know if it is too late, and not to dismiss Melchionda's feelings about the brakes, but I got the calipers and Apex levers feeling great. There is a bit of trick to doing it, but it isn't hard. 

You've got to do a few things.

1) Adjust the levers in to their extent for the smaller hands. 
2) Adjust the 'fixed' pad to as close to the rotor as it can be without rubbing. 
3) With the cable loosened, give it a tug, and while holding it taught, put a touch of preload on the actuator arm of the caliper...tighten the cable slightly and give the brake lever a squeeze to feel if they are crisp or not, and if you like the lever throw. If you like the lever throw but not the feel (ie squishy), you need to take some time to align the caliper better. If you like the feel, but not the lever throw, put a teeny bit more preload on the actuator and then test again. (When I say preload the the actuator arm, I mean to hold it in a slightly pulled position)
4)Snug cable. 

These brakes feel crisp, have great modulation for my sons hands and are lighter all together than going hydro at the moment. I just didn't see the benefit of throwing down the coin for the S700's or Reds. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a mechanical brakes kind of guy, but these seemed just fine.

I thought about getting Spyres, but I at this point don't feel they are going to be a HUGE improvement.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pushstart said:


> I'm not finding great deals on S700 levers -- Apex seems cheaper, but we're still talking at least $350 for the 1x set. Are you urging the brake upgrade because the smaller hands have trouble applying the force needed to stop with the mechanicals?
> 
> Yeah, I understand that the rx24 uses the 540 size, which is why I'm planning to build a 26" 559 wheelset, which will be the same diameter when outfitted with 28mm tires (or a little less with 25mm tires). 28mm tires aren't very common in 559 size, but not impossible. I'll probably use Schwalbe One tires. Too bad there's no tubeless. The wheelset will be quite inexpensive (sub-$200) and should save a lot of weight.
> 
> ...


You sure those are going to fit? There isn't a ton of room in there with the 540's already.

You'll be adding about a centimeter to the diameter and that's just about what's between the stock tire and seat tube. Gonna be pre-tty close....


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks for following up, @jochribs!

I just ordered the RX24 today. They've been hovering around $340 on Amazon Prime, and while they had dipped down below $300 earlier in the year, I decided this is a pretty good price & pulled the trigger.

I actually picked up a set of Yokozuna Motoko cable-actuated hydraulic brakes. I'd been shopping around, and when I found a set for around $160 I went for it. These are the same as the Juin Tech R1, but the fact that Yokozuna includes their housing, reassured me that this is about as good as mechanical-actuated brakes are gonna get. They weigh the same as the TRP Spyres, so they shouldn't make anything heavier.

Your post does make me think maybe that was a premature optimization and I should have played more with the stock brakes. But that ship has sailed! 

The plan is to set this up as a road bike with 26" (ETRTO 559) wheels and 28mm road-size tires. The math says this should work fine, but I'll update for the benefit of others if it turns out there isn't enough clearance for that. And then either use the stock wheels for cx or use the smaller ETRTO-507 MTB wheels with different tires, if that makes more sense. Heck, if there's clearance to run cross-size tires on 559 rims, I suppose that could work too, though that seems less likely. (And I haven't even looked into 26" CX tire options.)

Kid bike projects certainly have far more constraints than normal-size-human bike projects.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> You sure those are going to fit? There isn't a ton of room in there with the 540's already.
> 
> You'll be adding about a centimeter to the diameter and that's just about what's between the stock tire and seat tube. Gonna be pre-tty close....


Yeah, I'm not sure they'll fit. If the stock tires really measured 37mm then it'd be the same, but I gather that they're actually running smaller than that. As long as they're somewhere >= 32mm, then this seems like it should work (but may be close).

I'll update with what I find out tomorrow, since I have a 26" rear wheel now (the front/fork looks like it has plenty of room).


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Oh I totally hear you. I was going to do the hydro route, but I started looking at things and it was going to add a bit of heft. Then I thought Spyre's, but I think it was going to be a sideways move more than anything. I may still. I like their functionality. 

Are you basing your measurements with 559's fitting based on Melchionda's second pic above? Those are 507's. The first picture is what you are going to get with the bike...540's with a knobby wheelchair tire. There is about a centimeter of clearance between the tire and seat tube with those. I really don't think that a 559 with anything on it is going to fit. Maybe with something pretty small, if available, but my money on a 28 fitting is actually against the 28 fitting.  

Who knows though? 

It is the one thing about this bike that sorta sucks. The wheels and tires options. 

I did a bit of upgrading before the snow started flying, and then the bikes collected dust around our house while the boards got all the love. Now it's bike time again.

I found a PRO (Shimano) bar (narrow and shallow, much lighter too), threw on a Wren stem, and a Trailcraft post. Probably get the TC cranks as well. I ordered some hubs to build some decent road wheels with but last I was researching, I just wasn't liking the options for rims. Too narrow. I'll be doing what Melchionda did, and build some Crests with 350 hubs, so I'll be able to throw them in this or his MTB with axle swaps.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

So, I was really basing it on this picture:

https://www.cxmagazine.com/wp-conte...bike-DSC_8326-copy-clearance-cxmagazine_1.jpg

And then the math that a 540+37mm is 1cm more diameter (so if that nominal size were true, I'd only need 5mm of room). ... But, as you note, if there 's only 1cm of clearance, and the nominal size is more than 5mm off, then these probably won't fit. (I haven't seen them in person and you have, so I'd probably side with you on the wager.) Maybe a 25mm tire ... but I'll find out once I put a 26" rim in there. It sounds like if it does fit it might be too close to really be practical.

I'll update tomorrow.

Edit: wait, I'm messing up my math.

If the nominal size of the stock tires were true, then there's only 1mm of difference in *diameter*:

>>> (37*2) + 540
614
>>> (28*2) + 559
615

If the stock tires measure, say, 32mm instead, then there's 11mm diameter difference:
>>> (32*2) + 540
604

So, if there's 1cm of additional room, that should be enough here. Of course, we'll see how it actually turns out (especially the way the chain stays are shaped, might not allow enough lateral clearance).


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I think if you can find a good 25, that will probably fit. It will be tight for sure, but it should make it. Yeah, the width and the forward clearance in the CX Mag pic are of the BB area, but the problem is going to come in with the seat tube, and the seat stay bridge. 

If they'd have just curved the seat tube.... Hey, what can we expect for what we got these things for?? Hahahaha! 

Stoked to see what you find out. Fingers crossed.


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## johne5ive (Mar 15, 2017)

I put a pair of kenda k40 road tires on my kids diamondback haanjo cross bike. They are the same 540 x 37 dimension. They were like 15 bucks a piece


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Just to follow back up. The RX24 arrived today from Amazon -- nicely packed, Raleigh!

I pulled it out nervously, but the 26" wheel with 1.25" Compass tires (which actually measure 27mm wide and about 24mm tall on these Sun UFO rims) fits fine. The diameter appears to be within a few mm.

Also to answer my own questions about measured tire size for the stock tires, they are around 32mm wide and about 30mm tall.

Based on that, my calculations suggest that the 26" wheel might be 3.5mm larger radius / closer to seatstay. Anyway, plenty of room -- probably could fit cx-sized tires on a 26"/559 rim ...

(Note that the bike is upside down for photos 2 and 3.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

No way!! This is pretty awesome and opens up more options. I started looking at rims for a 559 build, but was waiting on what you found! 

Thanks for posting this stuff up!

How much room do you say you have between the tire and the seat tube at the closest point? The tire is approximately a 25?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, in theory this tire is 1.25" (~30mm), but obviously sizing is pretty subjective on these littler rims??

I will take my caliper to it, do a more in depth look at stock vs. 26" -- and also include info about the front / fork clearance.

I will post back when I have that info (probably later today)!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah, the eternal problem with tire sizing. I don't think I've ever seen a tire that actually measured up to its claims, ha! 

Figure the fit will be a teeny bit more generous in the fork. A bit more room in there between the tire and the crown.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Man, if the Isla tires could fit, that would be beyond sweet. Thinking it might be super close.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> Man, if the Isla tires could fit, that would be beyond sweet. Thinking it might be super close.


Oh, man, I didn't realize they had a 26" cx tire. (Claimed width of 31mm -- wonder how tall it sits on rim.) Yeah, that might work ... I will try to get a sense of what different sizes might look like. Maybe I can tape 5mm of padding to the current tire and see if that still clears all contact points.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I think if you find or make a gauge that you could see if fits between the frame and tire, you'd get a good idea too.

Man, I wish I still had some 26 inch wheels laying around. Bummer too, I had some really nice Bontrager RXL's on a Top Fuel that I gave away...had C-lock hubs and the tubeless rim strips...Aarghh!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Ok, I didn't have time to do detailed comparison to stock, but here are some measurements.

I used some rubber banding (tracks from a kid's truck) that measured 10mm wide to illustrate clearance with a wider tire.

So there is basically right around (or just under) 10mm of clearance around these 27mm-wide/24mm-deep tires at all interference points. Based on this I am optimistic that a "31mm" cx tire would fit.

I'll keep an eye out to see if any of these come up on eBay. Otherwise, I'll probably buy a set later in the summer.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Well this is pretty sweet! 

You are sure that you have 559 wheels in there, right?? Just kidding!

Edit...

So by my fuzzy math, I've got 2.6mm of space leftover with a 26 inch wheel and a 32mm cross tire between the tire and the seat tube, which is the real area of concern. I don't think the sides would be of concern along the seat and chain stays, since the tire isn't going to change much in width and there's plenty of room there in that regard. But I'm a bit worried about the seat tube clearance. Not a lot of room for error/tire casing variances. 

Obviously a road tire will fit fine though, so there is that at least!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> Well this is pretty sweet!
> 
> You are sure that you have 559 wheels in there, right?? Just kidding!
> 
> ...


Yeah, fitting the cross tire could be pretty tight, indeed. I'll probably take the gamble/plunge and order an Isla tire to test (or order a set and only unpackage one of them, so I can return them if it doesn't fit). I'll email them and ask about how it actually measures first. I'll ask them if they happen to have any used ones they'd sell at a discount so I could test my theory too.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

I measured the Schwalbe X-One's that are on my wife's Focus Mares, and got 32mm tall. The Greim's are a stated 31, so that might mean that they are actually a 30mm tall tire. (Wishful thinking) If that's the case then the clearance would grow to about half a cm, and that I am ok with. 

Maybe Melchionda can measure the height of his Greims from the rim edge to the tread???

Paging Melchionda, paging Melchionda...Hahahahaha!


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Very nice.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, that would be great if someone could measure the height. I suspect that probably depends on rim too (+/- a few mm?)? I don't have a lot of experiences understanding tires size factors down the millimeter. I've asked Isla if they could describe the measurements more exactly.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Ok, I heard back from Isla.



> I measured our 26" Greim tire mounted on our Crest wheels, which have a 17mm internal frame width. From the rim to the edge of the tread the tire is approximately 33mm tall. The tire width is actually 33mm when mounted. Note these measurements were for the Pro Greim tire, which does have a more supple sidewall and do expand a bit more than our standard Greim tires. Based on your calculations, our Greim will be a very tight fit and the greater concern will be that there is little to no room for any grit or grim to clear between the tire and the frame.


So, it'd b pretty close! I'll probably order a set and, when I do, I'll report back with what I find. Isla say they'll take back a tire that has not been ridden, so I think the risk is just shipping costs, which I find acceptable.

(The one part from email that doesn't seem quite right, is that I thought Crest rims had an internal width of 21mm. So if that is true, a narrower rim would likely reduce width of tire, but may not have any bearing on height?)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, that brings my fuzzy math down to just over a millimeter of clearance. Shyte. 

Right...unless they had Stans producing a 'different' Crest for them, the early Crests are 21 internal. The MK3's have a 23 internal. 

I think that sounds right, about the casing widening but not getting shorter in height when you widen the rim with a given tire. I think it squares the tread profile a bit too. My thought is to build a set of MK3's with 23 internal and put some Schwalbe road 28's on it. Be a bit like wide ENVE road wheels in execution, I would hope, hahaha! 


I think I might still build the 507 Crests into 350's though so I will definitely have a cross tire option and then I have wheels for his hardtail too. 

Still holding hope that 26 Greim can be shoehorned!!:lol:


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

I think for versatility the 507 Crests are a great way to go here. And that is my plan-B if these wont' fit. Yeah, if it's 1mm of clearance, that's definitely not gonna be enough ...


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

FYI, I've ordered a set of the 26"/559 Greim Pro tires. I'll have them next week and will update with whether/how they fit. If they don't fit, I'll return them to Isla (and probably pick up a set of the 24"/507 to use with my son's Crest MTB wheelset instead).


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Awesome Push! Thanks for guinea-pigging this!


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Speaking of Schwalbe 28, I've got Schwalbe One's in 28mm on my roadie and they are pretty large. The Conti Ultra Sport II's were massive. However the Serfas Secas Pro were the shortest tire height of the three from my experience. I transferred my 50mm aero clinchers with Schwalbes onto my kids roadie and they didn't clear whereas the Secas Pro was not really an issue. The Contis btw were so large it was crazy. 

That said I obviously don't know how their shapes will translate to your wheel size but I thought its good to know their largeness relative to other similar tires. Maybe it will hold thru different sizes.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Thanks Smoking, yeah it's all a bit of a gamble right now for sure. I'm basing the 28's on the height of the tire that's on the 540 rim and adding about a centimeter to the diameter. If all went according to 'paper'  that would leave about half a cm. My luck though and they'll burn the paint right off the seat tube on test fit and spin, LOL! 

I dunno though, base on Push's fitting of the pretty much 25c tire, I think there's room for even a well endowed 28...


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Good news. The Isla/Vee Greim 31-559 tires fit fine. They do not measure as large on these (Sun UFO) rims. ~30mm wide.by 30mm tall. They might grow a little with time, but there is room to grow. My theory is that since these are rim-brake rims, they might have a taller machined sidewall (?) Hence only 30mm above rim edge vs. 33mm on the Notubes rims. It's just a guess.

I didn't actually mount up the front tire, but that one had plenty of room in fork, so that should be just fine.

So it looks like I don't have any need for the stock 24"/540 wheels. I kinda like the shape (and width) of the stock Weinman U28 rims. But I suspect they are quite heavy too. Can't find any specs on the 540 version.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Wow Push, this is really great and so much thanks to you for testing this all out!

Yes the Weineman U28's are quite heavy, about 497 grams each. I think going with a set of 559 Crests will drop about 160 grams per rim. 

I agree, I don't think there's much use for the stock 540's when other sizes which have much better available options are viable choices. This is pretty awesome!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, I am stoked this worked out. Obviously the Crests are going to fatten up the tire profile, but adding 3mm should still fit fine. Good luck, if that is the way you go! I might do that too for cx (better tubeless, I am sure) if I find some used ones for cheap.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Just to follow up with a couple photos of the build.

The build:
- Bontrager XXX bars, 38cm
- Uno stem, 60mm
- Hylix seatpost
- WTB SL8 saddle
- Deckas 38t NW chainring
- Side Show flat pedals
- XG-1080 11-36 cassette
- GX short-cage RD
- aluminum/titanium BB
- Sun UFO rims (26"/559) laced 24/24 to Novatec 612SB/711SB hubs.
- Compass Elk Pass 26x1.25" tires.
- Yokozuna Motoko (Juin Tech R1) calipers and Reaction housing.
- Avid HS1 rotors (140, 160)

Stock bike weight was 22lbs even..after our mods bike is 17lbs 5oz.

Total investment (including the bike) was around $1k, so not especially cheap -- but lots of fun. There were a couple silly expensive parts -- like the tires. And the Motoko calipers added a bit of weight too. Certainly one could do a similar weight build for less.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Woot! Looks awesome Push! Any issues with the 36t and the short cage rd?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> Woot! Looks awesome Push! Any issues with the 36t and the short cage rd?


Thanks!

Nope that works fine here. I believe 36t is the max supported (since this is MTB short-cage -- not road).

I have to play with the fit a bit. Or let my son tell me after he's ridden it a bit longer. The bars are high, but that does make the drops comfortable which might be better while he's learning to shift, etc.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

Wow, that is so tiny and cute. Nice job building that up!

Btw, if you are ever looking for a more kid sized saddle that's light, check out the Tioga Dspyder which comes in at 145g. There are a few adult short/stubby saddles by they are pretty steeply priced. The Dspyder is around 40 bucks iirc.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

pushstart said:


> Just to follow up with a couple photos of the build.


Awesome little bike, and great weight! Make sure you explain toe overlap just in case. Looks like clearance is OK but don't want any surprises!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pushstart said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Nope that works fine here. I believe 36t is the max supported (since this is MTB short-cage -- not road).
> 
> I have to play with the fit a bit. Or let my son tell me after he's ridden it a bit longer. The bars are high, but that does make the drops comfortable which might be better while he's learning to shift, etc.


Yeah, totally hear you on that. It is a bit of a difference for them, getting used to the bars/riding on the hoods or in the drops etc. I always move stuff a tiny bit, and then maybe tell him, maybe not tell him, hahahaha! Just to see what the reaction/result is 

Getting ready to order the rims/hubs and spokes now.

I'm really on the fence about cranks. My guy's got 135's on his MTB right now and they're pretty much spot on for length for him. Doing the leg length percentage comarison, they're pretty much exactly the same as 175's are for me at my leg length. I'm thinking pretty hard about grabbing the Trailcraft 140's but would almost like the jump to be smaller. Like 137.5 or so. I know that when I go from my MTB that has 175's, to my 20" that has 180mm Profiles, I feel the difference big time. I imagine 5mm for our little guys has to feel like an even bigger difference, shorter legs considered.

I 'might' move the 135's to this bike and then grab the longer TC's (165's) and shorten them to 137.5 for his MTB. Or...I'll just leave them at 140...aargh, I'm over thinking this.

Anyway, just thinking out loud on that one. Wondering if anyone else is mulling that sort of thing over?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

thesmokingman said:


> Btw, if you are ever looking for a more kid sized saddle that's light, check out the Tioga Dspyder which comes in at 145g. There are a few adult short/stubby saddles by they are pretty steeply priced. The Dspyder is around 40 bucks iirc.


Thanks! I'll add that to the list. The WTB SL8 was one of the shortest/narrowesr (255x128) could find at a good weight (180g, I believe). It is probably a little longer than ideal still. But seems fine.

(I found one for around $100 from Taiwan, so not crazy but still one of the more expensive pieces in the build.)


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

GSJ1973 said:


> Awesome little bike, and great weight! Make sure you explain toe overlap just in case. Looks like clearance is OK but don't want any surprises!


I will take a closer look at the clearance with my son riding it, but it doesn't seem to be a problem at all. These tires are pretty close in diameter to the stock tires (a few mm larger), but could be a little more relevant with cx tires. The head tube is quite slack, though. But anyway, I will take a look next time he's on the bike and follow up.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> I'm really on the fence about cranks. My guy's got 135's on his MTB right now and they're pretty much spot on for length for him. Doing the leg length percentage comarison, they're pretty much exactly the same as 175's are for me at my leg length. I'm thinking pretty hard about grabbing the Trailcraft 140's but would almost like the jump to be smaller. Like 137.5 or so. I know that when I go from my MTB that has 175's, to my 20" that has 180mm Profiles, I feel the difference big time. I imagine 5mm for our little guys has to feel like an even bigger difference, shorter legs considered.


Not to exacerbate the dilemma, but I would also mention that with shorter cranks you will have a relatively closer-to-the-cranks saddle position if you keep saddle height at same level (presumanly just low enough for your son to be able to tough his toes to the ground). -- especially an issue with pushing up the wheel size a bit. It'sh a balancing act between saddle height, crank length, and wheel size on these bikes.

I agree that the stock 155(?) cranks are too long, but I am not sure if shortening them wouldn't cause a bigger issue with saddle height -- which is already too low, really, but can't go higher if he wants to be able to get on/off the bike without a stepping stool


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pushstart said:


> Not to exacerbate the dilemma, but I would also mention that with shorter cranks you will have a relatively closer-to-the-cranks saddle position if you keep saddle height at same level (presumanly just low enough for your son to be able to tough his toes to the ground). -- especially an issue with pushing up the wheel size a bit. It'sh a balancing act between saddle height, crank length, and wheel size on these bikes.
> 
> I agree that the stock 155(?) cranks are too long, but I am not sure if shortening them wouldn't cause a bigger issue with saddle height -- which is already too low, really, but can't go higher if he wants to be able to get on/off the bike without a stepping stool


Ha! No stepping stool needed! My guy is pretty solid at having the seat up at proper height and being able to mount/dismount. That said, he's pretty much at the beginning/middle of the sweet spot for 24".

Is your guy still growing into the 24" on the smaller side of things?

I've been a believer in dialing in the cranks for my guy since I built his first MTB. Out of the box, it was a 20" that had 152's. The awkward pedal circles he was forced to crank around, even with the seat relatively low, were just ridiculous. I don't know why that length crank was even specced on such a bike. I shortened them to 125, and the change was night and day.

With his 24", I did some percentage comparison and found that 135 was the same for his leg measurement as 175 was for me...to a hundredth of a percent. Using that, along with watching his riding performance, and keeping in mind the sensitivity that I have going from 172.5 to 175 between road and MTB, and then furthermore between MTB and dirt jumper at 180, I know that bumping to super long cranks is going to be a negative for cranking out miles. Add to that, the issue of pedal strikes.

I know that it seems to be splicing hairs a bit to hem and haw about 2.5mm, but the more I think about it, the more I think I'm going to do it. Going from 135 to 140 for him would be pretty much like going from 175 to 181.5's for me and there's no way I'd be doing that on my MTB or road bike. Quite honestly, 137.5 may still be too long, LOL!!! I might have just talked myself out of that!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Alright! It sounds like you have this well thought out.

Yeah, my son is on the shorter side of fitting a 24" still. (He turns 8 this summer, but he has been riding a [too-big] 24" for a year or so.). His cranks on the 24" MTB are 152, which I agree is also too long there, but his leg extension is still pretty cramped with the saddle low enough so that he can touch the ground (with tip toes, at that).

Anyway, just wanted to mention that concern, but sounds like you have that sorted. I am using 140mm Trailcraft crankset on my younger son's 20" MTB. I might size down the cranks on this bike, if I can order them without ring or BB. (It may have been user error, but the BB that came with my Trailcraft cranks had a lot of friction -- cranks would not spin freely at all. Replaced with a Shimano-style Wheels Mfg BB I had and that worked great.)

Certainly sizing down cranks would remove any tow overlap risk, though I don't think it's an issue with the longer cranks anyway.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

Is there any reason the 26" road conversion couldn't be done with a set of 26" disc MTB rims? Wouldn't be as cool. But it could be a more direct path to skipping the custom wheel build?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

SactoGeoff said:


> Is there any reason the 26" road conversion couldn't be done with a set of 26" disc MTB rims? Wouldn't be as cool. But it could be a more direct path to skipping the custom wheel build?


No reason at all. These are standard QR mtb disc hubs. I just like building wheels and in this specific case got the parts quite inexpensively (~$70 for the hubs, $50 for both rims, then another ~$50 in spokes).

(Doing it myself also let me do a 24-hole build, which is a little harder to find for mtb wheels.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pushstart said:


> Alright! It sounds like you have this well thought out.
> 
> Yeah, my son is on the shorter side of fitting a 24" still. (He turns 8 this summer, but he has been riding a [too-big] 24" for a year or so.). His cranks on the 24" MTB are 152, which I agree is also too long there, but his leg extension is still pretty cramped with the saddle low enough so that he can touch the ground (with tip toes, at that).
> 
> ...


Oh, I definitely do appreciate it!

As your son grows this will get easier, for sure. You're in a tough spot where you're kinda stuck waiting. I do think that you will do ok though cutting down the cranks a bit. The difference of about 1.5 centimeters isn't going to make the seat that much further away from the ground, but it will really make a difference in his pedaling. And he can use those cranks for way longer than you think. You can also slam the stem and go a bit shorter. I've been getting Wren stems for my guys bikes. Super light, and not really expensive either.

I also just ordered some Redline Microline 2 pc cranks in 135. They're 110 5 arm, and that forces me to go with a Wolftooth 34t (youch!) if I want that size but they're cheap enough and come with the BB. I was going to go with the TC's but I think I talked myself out of it in my comment above, hahahaha!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> I also just ordered some Redline Microline 2 pc cranks in 135. They're 110 5 arm, and that forces me to go with a Wolftooth 34t (youch!) if I want that size but they're cheap enough and come with the BB. I was going to go with the TC's but I think I talked myself out of it in my comment above, hahahaha!


Good idea on the cranks; I will see about finding some shorter -- ideally for square taper since I have a nice BB now.

Are those Redline the narrower bmx chain line? (Will that matter?) I almost got those for my son's 24" MTB build, but ended up with the Trailcraft. This was before the 140 were an option, though. I might size him down to the TC 140s if I don't find another square taper option.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

pushstart said:


> Good idea on the cranks; I will see about finding some shorter -- ideally for square taper since I have a nice BB now.
> 
> Are those Redline the narrower bmx chain line? (Will that matter?) I almost got those for my son's 24" MTB build, but ended up with the Trailcraft. This was before the 140 were an option, though. I might size him down to the TC 140s if I don't find another square taper option.


When I used Microline cranks I used it with a 68x113 Sinz BB. Iirc they were 130mm on the Spesh Hotrock.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Redline-Mi...m=302114407430&_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982

Here are some Microline arms for about $52. I think I saw some for less, but can't seem to find them again.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

How'd you like the chainline with the 113 Smoking?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jochribs said:


> How'd you like the chainline with the 113 Smoking?


It's been so long but I don't remember it being an issue. Let me go thru my pics, I think I have one that we can see the chainline in. That bike was handed down to a cousin so I don't have it on me anymore. Found one.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Ha! Same thing with my sons 20 and previous bikes. Left them back east at his grandparents for all of the younger cousins to ride. 

That doesn't look bad at all. I'm hoping that these 2 pieces that I have on the way have a good chainline. I think I'll be able to put the ring on the inside of the spider if needed. Should be enough clearance with the narrow stays on the Raleigh.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> That doesn't look bad at all. I'm hoping that these 2 pieces that I have on the way have a good chainline. I think I'll be able to put the ring on the inside of the spider if needed. Should be enough clearance with the narrow stays on the Raleigh.


If I remember right, the BMX chain line is narrower, so worst-case you might need some washers to space out the chainring n the *outside* of spider, but I suspect this will work just fine. There is a lot of clearance with the 38t cog we have on there now, so I don't think you'll have a problem. (I can take a clearance photo later today.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

No worries, I think the cranks will be here Friday, I'll get em thrown on and take some pics too. You're definitely right on the narrower chainline. Not sure what I was thinking on that one!

I just ordered this morning before work a pair of 26" Crest MK3's and some Sapim nipples. On the fence about whether to use the RS505 hubs that I grabbed cheap before winter or just go ahead and grab the 350's. I'm thinking the the 350's because they'll transfer well to another bike.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

jochribs said:


> No worries, I think the cranks will be here Friday, I'll get em thrown on and take some pics too. You're definitely right on the narrower chainline. Not sure what I was thinking on that one!
> 
> I just ordered this morning before work a pair of 26" Crest MK3's and some Sapim nipples. On the fence about whether to use the RS505 hubs that I grabbed cheap before winter or just go ahead and grab the 350's. I'm thinking the the 350's because they'll transfer well to another bike.


Sounds great. I don't remember if you had a good deal on the 350s, but I'm generally a big fan of Novatec for these applications too. The ones on bdopcycling.com are nice with the upgraded bearings, but this might only be significantly cheaper if you're willing to get a QR-only hubs (which are on clearance there). And you probably don't want to discount the labor in building the wheels! I am building my son a 26" Crest (older model) wheel for his MTB -- to run a 24"/26" setup that might help for rollover -- and I'm using a D711SB QR-only hub (from bdop), since I had a spare here.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Thank for the heads up! Yeah, I'm leaning towards the 350'd for the axle swap-ability. If not, I'd definitely go for the Novatecs or Bitex hubs. Who knows, I might be swayed in the next couple days! That's awesome that you have the older Crest, I'm still running that on my own bike with Revolution spokes. Despite all the wider is better hype, I run that rim with 2.35 Ikons and it rides so good.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Nice! 

Re: Novatec hubs, there are definitely swappable versions of those too. (D772SB/D771SB or D792SB/D791SB).

If you have time (to wait for shipping), you can get a hub set from Far East for less than $100. The bearings won't be great, I am sure, but with lighter riders they may last just fine. And replacing the bearings is super easy.

I have bought a few of these hubsets and then $30-40 of Enduro bearings to replace everything, which is still a great value in the end.

Alternatively, BDOP ships EMS which is very fast, but the price is higher for those (swappable) hub models. Around $200 for the D77* hubsets, if I remember right. Those are decent hubs and lightweight, especially for riders weighing less than 150lbs and putting out less than 1kw on climbs. (I had been commuting for awhile on Novatec hubs, so they work fine for bigger riders too -- but I probably wouldn't spec them on a MTB.)


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Just to follow up, I put up build details here: http://snakesthatbite.blogspot.com/2018/05/raleigh-rx24-24-kids-roadcx-bike-project.html


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## daeninck (May 22, 2018)

I've been following this thread with a lot of interest. Thanks everyone for posting their experience! I got a RX24 for my son a month ago and would like to get it lighter before CX season starts. Looking at the table at the end of Pushstart's blog post, it looks like the easy place to start would be:

- saddle
- seatpost
- handlebars
- bottom bracket

What about the original cranks, has anyone weighed them? Is there a big saving going to a Trailcraft crankset (either direct mount or the square tapered one)?

Also how much weight saving is possible on the wheels? I saw in Pushstart's post he built up a very light 26" set, but I didn't see how much saving that was over the stock wheels. Pushstart you are confident that the 26" wheels will be fine for cross?

Thanks! [this is my first post on MTBR]


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Welcome, @daeninck.

Yeah, I'm confident that with the Isla cx tires (which are listed as a "31mm" tire and measure around that for me), the 26" wheels will fit. I can't make any promises, of course, because everything is different, but I still had some extra clearance there and toe overlap is not an issue for my son. Curious if anyone has done Stans Crest 26" rims yet -- expect the tires to fit wider, but wouldn't think they'd be much "taller".

I think wheels are probably the biggest place to save weight. I didn't weigh the stock wheels (and now have sold them off), but they were quite heavy in comparison. Here was my wheelset:

- I found my rims (Sun UFO, 24-hole) for $50 for the pair (shipped).
- I bought BDOP Novatec hubs:
Hubs-D612SB-10 ($40)
Hubs-D711SB ($30)

(If you are using 28 or 32h, you might have to choose different options, but check Clearance -- note that the D352SB is a 130OLD hub, so that won't work.)

I haven't weighed the stock crankarms. Or maybe I did, but I don't think I kept track. I wasn't planning on replacing them. I did replace the bottom bracket and didn't have the sense that getting Trailcraft crank arms would be a big savings. The stock ones didn't feel overly heavy, anyway. I think there is an argument to be made for shorter crankarms for the kids, but my son is doing fine with these for now.


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## daeninck (May 22, 2018)

Thanks a lot @pushstart for your quick and detailed reply!

I weight some of the stock parts to complete the table you already had:

*Stock Crankset:*
- Left crank 225g
- Right crank 275g
- Ring + "protectors" + bolts 193g

*Stock Wheels:*
- Front wheel* 1046g
- Rear wheel* 1256g
- Quickrelease (front & back) 113g
- 1 Tire 364g
- 1 Inner tube 151g

* Includes rotors (and bolts), but does not include the cassette.

*Below, the weights of more stock parts (by @pushstart):*
- Stem 115g
- Saddle 321g 
- Seatpost 294g
- Bottom Bracket 305g
- Cassette 329g
- Rear Derailleur 208g
- Handlebars 356g


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Thanks for filling in those additional weight details! Those wheels are heavy. So, my wheels *without* the rotors were 753g (rear), 624g (front). So probably an additional 100-110g per wheel for the rotors+bolts.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Sorry guys, I've been dragging on getting these MK3 Crests built. Still need to get spokes and hubs. I think I'll do that this week. I've been throwing money at his mountain bike and just bought a full cromo 18" bmx to replace his 16. Kid's got a dialed fleet!

Anyway, here's the progress on the RX. He's got a thing for orange. And sorry Push, I think I bit your style with the tape. I really wanted to get Guee tape, but couldn't seem to get my hands on it. https://www.amazon.com/Bartape-Color-tone-comfort-weight/dp/B071D3RRNB 
I ended up running the Supacaz tape in reverse so the orange was at the bottom and the darker was on the tops where the dirt would be the heaviest. Bit of a trick getting the color change to match from one side to the other since the rolls weren't equal in regards to where the color change was/length of the black section.

After doing some rides with mom, he now states that his favorite is bmx, road, then mountain in that order.

Weighs in at 20.1 in current configuration...

-stocks wheels, cassette, rotors, calipers, shifters/brakes
-Redline 2 pc cranks and bb (135mm) -644g
-Wolftooth 5 arm 34t NW ring -43g
-Pro (Shimano) short reach handlebars - forgot to weigh
-Wren 40mm stem -70g
-Trailcraft seat post -161g
-Niner ti-rail saddle -218g
-X9 medium cage rear derailleur -212g
-XT pedals -339g

Hoping I can get down to under 18 lbs with the coming wheel build!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

This build looks really awesome!

(To be honest, I am not a huge fan of this tape. It does look cool, but it gets really dirty. I will switch to Fizik tape -- not sure which color -- once the Supercaz has gotten too gross.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pushstart said:


> This build looks really awesome!
> 
> (To be honest, I am not a huge fan of this tape. It does look cool, but it gets really dirty. I will switch to Fizik tape -- not sure which color -- once the Supercaz has gotten too gross.)


Thanks Push! You and Melchionda are the ones that have knocked it out of the park though!

I really agree about this tape. I found it really frustrating. Out of all the tapes I've used over the past 20 years, I just didn't get the hype about this stuff. One, it wasn't even a fade from one color to the other. It's two separate tapes glued together. Two, it conforms to the bar like a goth kid at a frat party. The stuff has no stretch. I got such a workout wrapping these bars with it because I had to pull so freaking
hard on the tape to get it to lay right!! Hahaha! I will say that it is pretty strong tape though because I would bave snapped any other tape with the force I put on this stuff.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

It is also a quite tacky tape, which I figured would be good while my son is getting the hang of drop bars. I wish I had inverted it so that the lighter color was on the top of the bar in my case. (My son only uses the drops because he doesn't find the braking confident from the hoods with his smaller hands.)


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Did yours come so that the roll started with the lighter color? Mine came with the darker on the outside, and I unraveled it and cut I tbink about 11 inches off each sides orange in order to start it where I liked where it transitioned from orange to black. Caviat was that the black section is too short. I needed 'one more' pass around the bars to get it to where I would have liked to cut it off, but it ended up a touch short. I just ran another wind of e-tape to make up for it...


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

I don't remember, actually. I probably unwound it, as I was doing the black on top deliberately. I was also annoyed they didn't include any small pieces of tape for behind the levers/clamps.

I won't buy this stuff again, but it did look really nice when it was first put on! 

FWIW, I have used Fizik's orange tape (3mm) with great results in my own bike. That stuff feels great and doesn't get dirty.

Right now I have Fizik's neon yellow tape, but it is a slick version, so didn't think that was a good choice for my son's bike (slippery, though he does wear gloves usually).


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## xazp (Jun 29, 2018)

What is the stock weight of this bike? The Schwinn website says it's 20 pounds (https://www.raleighusa.com/rx24 , under "specs") but I see some references in this thread to 22 pounds?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

xazp said:


> What is the stock weight of this bike? The Schwinn website says it's 20 pounds (https://www.raleighusa.com/rx24 , under "specs") but I see some references in this thread to 22 pounds?


Ours weighed in right at 22lbs according to my Park scale.


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## Fluty410 (Jul 24, 2011)

Is there any reason I could not just by some stans crest rims and use the same stock hubs and spokes? I found the rims for $30 a piece.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Fluty410 said:


> Is there any reason I could not just by some stans crest rims and use the same stock hubs and spokes? I found the rims for $30 a piece.


Well, Stans Crest 24" rims are not the same diameter as the stock rims. They're 507mm diameter as opposed to 540mm diameter, so if you fit the same size tires you're looking at the bike sitting 1.6cm lower to the ground. That said, others in this thread are doing that. You likely could put larger 507 etrto tires on there than the ones that come stock.

Note that you will not be able to reuse the spokes; the lengths will be different.

You can reuse the hubs, but note that the front hub is 24h, so you'll need to find a 24h Stans Crest rim; AFAIK that does not exist.

I wouldn't reuse the hubs, though; they're really heavy. At the point where you're going to invest the hours in building new wheels, feels like a waste not to get some inexpensive Novatecs which will weigh half as much and could be axle-swappable for future bike projects.


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## xazp (Jun 29, 2018)

Thanks - appreciate it. Their website is off by 2 pounds - 10% - a pretty substantial amount.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Yeah, I've also seen published weights of 21lbs somewhere, which is obviously closer. And CX Magazine weighed theirs at just over 21 lbs: https://www.cxmagazine.com/review-raleigh-rx24-24-inch-wheel-kids-cyclocross-bike

(Not sure what would have made the difference -- maybe specs changed a little or maybe my scale is a bit off?) I think assuming it is "around 21lbs" is safe. Either way, lots of room to save weight!


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah, I was a little thrown off by the actual weight as well. I hoped to start lighter, but oh well. I think 18/18.5 or so is doable with reasonable upgrades. 

The spokes can be cut if you are dropping to a 507 rim. However, they're just straight gauge, and it can be a no no to reuse previously tensioned spokes.


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## xazp (Jun 29, 2018)

Just fyi - there's a sale on the diamondback podium 24 bike (check Amazon) - I just ordered one today. It's a road bike, it claims to be 20.75 pounds, and it's $159 w/ free shipping. Seems to cost a lot less than comparable kid bikes with that weight / component set (Shimano Claris). I think they used to sell them for $500 so it's pretty discounted.


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## TN29'er (Apr 24, 2004)

What is the hub spacing on this bike?


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

^^It should be standard spacing.



xazp said:


> Just fyi - there's a sale on the diamondback podium 24 bike (check Amazon) - I just ordered one today. It's a road bike, it claims to be 20.75 pounds, and it's $159 w/ free shipping. Seems to cost a lot less than comparable kid bikes with that weight / component set (Shimano Claris). I think they used to sell them for $500 so it's pretty discounted.


Wow, that's a steal!


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jochribs said:


> However, they're just straight gauge, and it can be a no no to reuse previously tensioned spokes.


Nope, its perfectly fine to re-use spokes as long as they are in good shape. Its one of the fundamentals on Sheldons. The key is to maintain the same laced orientation and iirc that's basically it. Oh and the best part is ya don't have to stress relieve them, saves a lot of tired hands.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

TN29'er said:


> What is the hub spacing on this bike?


If you are talking about the RX24, it is 135/100.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

thesmokingman said:


> Nope, its perfectly fine to re-use spokes as long as they are in good shape. Its one of the fundamentals on Sheldons. The key is to maintain the same laced orientation and iirc that's basically it. Oh and the best part is ya don't have to stress relieve them, saves a lot of tired hands.


And these aren't in good shape. I have the spokes from the front wheel. All bent at the threads due to the improper seating and tensioning at the nips. Pics if ya need em, still have em. Not sure how well citting and rolling a crooked spoke (that also already saw tension to boot) is gonna go. I don't want to save a few nickles to find out.

Yes, if a spoke is in good shape. Agreed. But that's honestly rare in most circumstances, especially concerning machine built wheels on a 400 dollar bike. Hence why I made my comment on the matter a month and half ago.

While 'Sheldon' was absolutely the man and spot on in most everything bike, a good amount of intelligent interpretation needs to exercised in individual circumstances.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jochribs said:


> And these aren't in good shape. I have the spokes from the front wheel. All bent at the threads due to the improper seating and tensioning at the nips. Pics if ya need em, still have em. Not sure how well citting and rolling a crooked spoke (that also already saw tension to boot) is gonna go. I don't want to save a few nickles to find out.
> 
> Yes, if a spoke is in good shape. Agreed. But that's honestly rare in most circumstances, especially concerning machine built wheels on a 400 dollar bike. Hence why I made my comment on the matter a month and half ago.
> 
> While 'Sheldon' was absolutely the man and spot on in most everything bike, a good amount of intelligent interpretation needs to exercised in individual circumstances.


Adding tension to a spoke doesn't in turn mean its life is over. That is what you keep repeating, it is just flat out not true. If the spoke is not damaged or over-yielded then it can be re-used regardless if its machine built or by hand. And it wasn't Sheldon that wrote this. It was Jobst Brandt, you know who that is yea? I don't get this negativity. Its a simple fact, re-use of spokes are fine.



> *The reason you can reuse spokes is that their failure mode is fatigue.* There is no other way of causing a fatigue failure than to ride many thousand miles (if your wheel is properly built). A crash does not induce fatigue, nor does it even raise tension in spokes unless you get a pedal between them. *Unless a spoke has a kink that cannot be straightened by hand, it can be reused.*
> 
> Jobst Brandt


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah, I know who Jobst is. From his book I built my first wheels back in 1997. 

Regardless, these are not in good shape. Period.

I'm not sure what negativity you are referring to. I'm not being negative. Just stating my take on your response to my post from a month and a half ago. 

If you'd like the spokes from these wheels, I'll more than happily give them to you. Unless used for a radial laced wheel the bend at the thread area negates them being used for a 24" wheel if being cut/rolled, as the bend is at the point they'll be in the cutter.

What did Jobst say about bent spokes again?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

From my optic, even if the spokes were fine, they aren't worth reusing. They are cheap, heavy, straight-gauge spokes. I value my time too much building a wheel to rebuild it with crappy components.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

jochribs said:


> Yeah, I know who Jobst is. From his book I built my first wheels back in 1997.
> 
> Regardless, these are not in good shape. Period.
> 
> ...


"Unless a spoke has a kink that cannot be straightened by hand, it can be reused."

-Jobst Brandt

As I wrote before and again, in principle used spokes can be used again if they are in good shape. I did not write you must re-use your spokes. It was you, that stated that spokes shouldn't be re-used if they've been tensioned, then went on to disregard the point believing it was from Sheldon, when in fact it was from Brandt. That was what I was addressing, not your personal spokes.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

pushstart said:


> From my optic, even if the spokes were fine, they aren't worth reusing. They are cheap, heavy, straight-gauge spokes. I value my time too much building a wheel to rebuild it with crappy components.


This. Just not worth it.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

thesmokingman said:


> "Unless a spoke has a kink that cannot be straightened by hand, it can be reused."
> 
> -Jobst Brandt
> 
> As I wrote before and again, in principle used spokes can be used again if they are in good shape. I did not write you must re-use your spokes. It was you, that stated that spokes shouldn't be re-used if they've been tensioned, then went on to disregard the point believing it was from Sheldon, when in fact it was from Brandt. That was what I was addressing, not your personal spokes.


Right, but at this point it is semantics really. Because my personal spokes in this case are the same spokes that the original questioner has, and there is next nil way that that they are any different. That I mentioned not reusing due to prior tension is a technicality, semantics. The spokes aren't worth reusing. They are kinked in a place where repurposing for a similar size wheel and pattern isn't going to yield reliable results. (You can't just cut off kinked thread section and then put in machine because the kink is right where the cut and threading would most likely need ro take place.)

Technically yes you can reuse spokes in good shape. But lets examine this. How many wheels that are in good shape, where the wheel didn't have uneven fatigue, are disassembled for the purpose of reusing the spokes?? Why would you bother even doing that? In my view, if a wheel is taken apart, it probably wasn't the best specimen to begin with, either due to being of low quality psrts to begin with (as in these wheels) or it was not performing very well due to poor tension and seating etc which contributes to fatigue.

So while the commentary of Brandt and Brown is correct in a technical sense, it most likely doesn't hold up in the real world sense of why youd even be stripping the wheel diwn in the first place. Generally that would be to save the hub for another go, not reuse the spokes. Of which I woukd not trust if I needed to strip the wheel down because it wasn't performing properly.


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## daeninck (May 22, 2018)

Hi @pushstart!

I finally placed an order for the same rims and hubs as you got:



pushstart said:


> - I found my rims (Sun UFO, 24-hole) for $50 for the pair (shipped).
> - I bought BDOP Novatec hubs:
> Hubs-D612SB-10 ($40)
> Hubs-D711SB ($30)


Do you remember what spoke length you used?

Thanks!

Goeric


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

daeninck said:


> Hi @pushstart!
> 
> I finally placed an order for the same rims and hubs as you got:
> 
> ...


Yes, I do. Here are my calculation sheets. (Note: there is a typo in model num for front hub -- it is really 711SB. 712SB would have been a rear hub.) I'd recommend confirming ERD on the rims, as these things can vary (and double check any other measurements if you happen to have them). I do also remember that the D612SB rear hub has the holes sort of "paired" next to each other; this probably should have affected my calculations, but in practice it still worked ok. (I'm also a little more relaxed about the build when it's such a light rider, so if some spokes were 1mm too short I probably wouldn't have worried much about it -- I don't recall here whether anything was really too short in the end, though.)


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## daeninck (May 22, 2018)

Thanks a lot @pushstart! So if I get Sapim Laser spokes, does that mean I would have to get 12x256mm, 12x258mm, 24x260mm?

I've also been looking for that aluminum/titanium bottom bracket you mention in your blog but I can't find it... Would you know a place that has it? Or a good alternative?

Thanks again!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

Yes, that's correct re: spoke lengths.

You're right; I don't see that BB anymore on eBay. I guess right now the best option on eBay looks like the OMNI Racer 68x103 ($85) or the FSA Ultimax ($75-80). Those are more expensive, unfortunately.


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## daeninck (May 22, 2018)

pushstart said:


> You're right; I don't see that BB anymore on eBay. I guess right now the best option on eBay looks like the OMNI Racer 68x103 ($85) or the FSA Ultimax ($75-80). Those are more expensive, unfortunately.


I almost gave up, but after lots of digging I found this:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/AGE...58e2c34&transAbTest=ae803_5&priceBeautifyAB=0

That looks like a re-branded version of the one you got! The brand on the body says "ACE" or "ACEOFFIX" (but they also use "AGEKUSL" in the description) ... anyway not clear what the exact brand is, but I think I'm going for one of these.


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

That sure looks like it! And the price is right.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

I was flirting with buying a couple RX24's (inspired by this thread) and it looks like they are being discontinued. Prices have shot up everywhere. Just a PSA for anyone else following along.


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## TN29'er (Apr 24, 2004)

Melchionda, Is that a 26" rim or 24"? Thanks


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## melchionda (Sep 25, 2012)

TN29'er said:


> Melchionda, Is that a 26" rim or 24"? Thanks


The original wheels that came on the RX24 are 24" but they are wheelchair rims which are the larger 24" wheelsize and have a different ERTO rating.

I had another set of 24" wheels made out of Stans Crest 24" rims. They have a different ERTO number... (they are slightly smaller) but the tubeless Isla CX tires that we are using on the new Stans Crest Wheelset are a little wider so its worth it.

Unfortunately once again due to soccer season we have not yet raced this thing. However the Crest wheels have seen lots of use on my sons MTB.

With the Stans Crest Rims and Circus Monkey Carbon hubs and Isla Tubeless CX tires we got the weight of the RX24 down to 18lbs.


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## TN29'er (Apr 24, 2004)

Got it. Do you think a 26" would fit?


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

26" w/ Isla cx tires fits fine for us. There's room to spare, so wider rims should be fine too.


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## TN29'er (Apr 24, 2004)

Can you please post a photo of the clearance with the 26" tires? I want to upgrade to them. Also what rims are those? They don't appear to be stans. Thanks


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

TN29'er said:


> Can you please post a photo of the clearance with the 26" tires? I want to upgrade to them. Also what rims are those? They don't appear to be stans. Thanks


There are lots of photos and details of this earlier in this thread. (These are Sun UFO rims, 17mm internal width. Yes not Stans. I will be getting some Stans Crest for this bike when I find a cheap 28h set.)


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## TN29'er (Apr 24, 2004)

Pushstart

OK I'm not as sophisticated as I should be on measurements. Would a set of Stans rims increase or reduce the clearance? I would like to have 26" hoops on it instead of 24", however I am concerned about clearance given our son is racing cross. He was one of the few kids able to still ride this past weekend during our state championships as he had enough clearance. Thanks for all of your feedback


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

That is a good question. I suspect wider rims will reduce clearance side-to-side a little. I don't know if that will be enough to cause a problem. These Isla tires are pretty narrow.

On the Sun UFO rims my son has not had a problem and has done some pretty muddy races, but TBD on whether a wider rim would cause an issue.


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

Anyone on this thread ready to sell their little one's RX24 yet? I've been wanting to pick one up for my son for quite some time and he's now close to being the right size. He's also loves CX and will for sure be racing soon!


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## pushstart (Jul 23, 2007)

TN29'er said:


> Pushstart
> 
> OK I'm not as sophisticated as I should be on measurements. Would a set of Stans rims increase or reduce the clearance? I would like to have 26" hoops on it instead of 24", however I am concerned about clearance given our son is racing cross. He was one of the few kids able to still ride this past weekend during our state championships as he had enough clearance. Thanks for all of your feedback


To follow up, we just had a very muddy race. The clearance was fine, but there was certainly a lot of mud jammed in there. My son did better than my setup (gravel bike with 38mm tires), but he rode fewer laps and was also a little smarter about shouldering his bike through the mud.

(His wheels still spun freely.)

The last photo (of crankset) is my bike for further reference.

So, no issues with the 26" in mud so far.


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