# Dietary Protein



## telemike (Jun 20, 2011)

I recently had a discussion about protein requirements with a friend after reading an AARP article on seniors not getting enough protein in their diet. The article recommended 25 - 35grams (about 1 oz) with each meal, that is, three times a day. They also suggested increased amounts after significant exercise. 

I looked at my protein intake and it seemed to average about 10 - 40 grams per meal with the average below the articles 25 - 35 gram at each meal. I get protein at breakfast from an egg, a small sausage patty, and whatever amount is in the english muffin, fried potatoes, or toast that goes with breakfast. 

Lunch is generally a sandwich, often a quick PB and J, or a slice of ham etc with a slice of provolone. 

Supper usually has couple of chicken legs or thighs or some other kind of meat, often braised pork or beef with a little protein coming from very fresh veggies (locally grown in our garden) and some pasta, rice, potatoes, or baked goods.

How much protein do you understand we need as cyclists and how do you get it?


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## DeoreDX (Jul 28, 2007)

0.5g to 0.9g per pound of body weight. Go higher in the spectrum the more you are training or if you are trying to lose weight while training without losing muscle mass. That was the number told to me by people a lot in the know than I do t have any data or sources to back that up.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Agree with DX. I get mine from veggies and sometimes supplement with a post ride protein shake.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Unfortunately dietary best practices change constantly, which tells me that those who publish them don't really have concrete knowledge and to some degree use educated best guesses. In many ways you have to understand your body and how it best performs with specific diet types. For me personally, I work on complex carbs, fiber, vegetables, plant based fats (nuts and coconut) and fruits. Only occasional meat. My wife does fantastic on just animal fats and meat with some veg thrown in - beef, cheese, cream, stuff like that. If she eats like me she bloats and feels lousy. If I eat like her, I feel like absolute crap and I swear I'd be pathological in a year's time. Listen to your body, including protein intake.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

BadgerOne said:


> Unfortunately dietary best practices change constantly, which tells me that those who publish them don't really have concrete knowledge and to some degree use educated best guesses. In many ways you have to understand your body and how it best performs with specific diet types. For me personally, I work on complex carbs, fiber, vegetables, plant based fats (nuts and coconut) and fruits. Only occasional meat. My wife does fantastic on just animal fats and meat with some veg thrown in - beef, cheese, cream, stuff like that. If she eats like me she bloats and feels lousy. If I eat like her, I feel like absolute crap and I swear I'd be pathological in a year's time. Listen to your body, including protein intake.


Spot on. It takes a long time to figure out what works for YOUR body. We’re all different


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Your gut flora is selective to what you eat too though...not that I necessarily disagree with the above. I feel best on wild salmon, greens, dark berries, and fermented stuff. Sunshine, sleep, stimulation, mountain air, and low stress. 

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using Tapatalk


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## r-rocket (Jun 23, 2014)

Substituting out half the potatoes for beans would give you some more complete proteins.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sir kayakalot said:


> Spot on. It takes a long time to figure out what works for YOUR body. We’re all different



True but every body needs adequate protein to thrive and it's especially important for older athletes. We're not all that much different.


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## Sir kayakalot (Jul 23, 2017)

J.B. Weld said:


> True but every body needs adequate protein to thrive and it's especially important for older athletes. We're not all that much different.


No doubt, but, some folks can get their protein from eating fried chicken/fish and fried okra/French fries and hop on the bike and turn out a 5000’ climb. Others have to eat tofu and a protein shake exactly 6 hours before the ride or they can’t perform. Figuring out what to eat and how much of it at the right time is the key


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Sir kayakalot said:


> No doubt, but, some folks can get their protein from eating fried chicken/fish and fried okra/French fries and hop on the bike and turn out a 5000’ climb. Others have to eat tofu and a protein shake exactly 6 hours before the ride or they can’t perform. Figuring out what to eat and how much of it at the right time is the key



You can only thrive on fried chicken and fried okra for so long. That's a young man's game, I'm in it for the long haul!


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## spaightlabs (Dec 3, 2011)

J.B. Weld said:


> True but every body needs adequate protein to thrive and it's especially important for older athletes. We're not all that much different.


100%. You can’t truly ‘trust your body’. There are 150 million Americans whose bodies are telling them they need more Highly processed foods. 

over 50 we also need to lift. Not your wife’s pink weights or the 2 pounders that came with your peloton. Move some iron, compound movements at least a couple times a week.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

spaightlabs said:


> 100%. You can’t truly ‘trust your body’. There are 150 million Americans whose bodies are telling them they need more Highly processed foods.
> 
> over 50 we also need to lift. Not your wife’s pink weights or the 2 pounders that came with your peloton. Move some iron, compound movements at least a couple times a week.


Well...sort of. Those people are not performing athletically in any real capacity and certainly not in tune with their body's performance or signage. The pleasure centers of their brain is telling them to eat that crap, not their body. Athletes know and can tell the difference.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

BadgerOne said:


> Well...sort of. Those people are not performing athletically in any real capacity and certainly not in tune with their body's performance or signage. The pleasure centers of their brain is telling them to eat that crap, not their body. Athletes know and can tell the difference.




Plenty of high level athletes eat like crap and still perform well. Usain Bolt once said his favorite pre-race meal was chicken McNuggets.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Interesting new study about essential amino acids and dementia prevention. 









Neurodegenerative processes accelerated by protein malnutrition and decelerated by essential amino acids in a tauopathy mouse model


Intake of specific seven essential amino acids affects the pathology of the brain.




www.science.org


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

telemike said:


> I recently had a discussion about protein requirements with a friend after reading an AARP article on seniors not getting enough protein in their diet. The article recommended 25 - 35grams (about 1 oz) with each meal, that is, three times a day. They also suggested increased amounts after significant exercise.
> 
> I looked at my protein intake and it seemed to average about 10 - 40 grams per meal with the average below the articles 25 - 35 gram at each meal. I get protein at breakfast from an egg, a small sausage patty, and whatever amount is in the english muffin, fried potatoes, or toast that goes with breakfast.
> 
> ...


Protein intake is not generally a problem for healthy active adults, the problem is in the geriatric population who no longer cook and who tend to snack on junk food.

This ^ is a big chunk of my adult patients and they are a tough nut to crack because they no longer care or at least don’t care enough to change habits.

A few things have led to an increase in this problem:

Increased availability of inexpensive processed foods: Fast food, snack food.
Increased longevity: more health issues
Increase in sedentary lifestyle: decreased mobility

On the whole, a less active older person needs less dietary intake, so they have less latitude to make poor nutrition choices. If they snack poorly, they no longer make it up with healthy meals.

So yeah, they’re not talking about us 🙄

AARP? You read that tripe? Get a couple textbooks on nutrition, it’s not a complicated science, teach yourself, don’t ask a bunch of yahoo’s on the internet.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Plenty of high level athletes eat like crap and still perform well. Usain Bolt once said his favorite pre-race meal was chicken McNuggets.


see my comments above ^


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

BadgerOne said:


> Unfortunately dietary best practices change constantly, which tells me that those who publish them don't really have concrete knowledge and to some degree use educated best guesses. In many ways you have to understand your body and how it best performs with specific diet types. For me personally, I work on complex carbs, fiber, vegetables, plant based fats (nuts and coconut) and fruits. Only occasional meat. My wife does fantastic on just animal fats and meat with some veg thrown in - beef, cheese, cream, stuff like that. If she eats like me she bloats and feels lousy. If I eat like her, I feel like absolute crap and I swear I'd be pathological in a year's time. Listen to your body, including protein intake.


I’m not sure how to put this, so I’ll just say it:

You are totally wrong.

All humans have the same dietary needs because we are genetically the same.

You may have allergies to certain foods or have a quirk in your metabolism, but those are the zebras, the rest of us are the same.

Yes, of course, science is always evolving, nutritional science is no different from any other science, but keep in mind that science builds on the theories that came before, so the nutritional science we know now is not all that different from what we knew a few decades ago.

Yeah, I know you won’t believe me, and that’s okay, I’m just trying to counter punch misinformation.

Hope this helps somebody, but if not, no worries, when you get close to death you’ll have all the answers, just no time to put them to practice 🤣


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> Plenty of high level athletes eat like crap and still perform well. Usain Bolt once said his favorite pre-race meal was chicken McNuggets.





J.B. Weld said:


> You can only thrive on fried chicken and fried okra for so long. That's a young man's game, I'm in it for the long haul!


I think you respond to yourself, somehow before you posted what you responded to.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

I find the organ products to be very good. Not too sweet. I use it as part of my breakfast shake. 

For post rides I use tailwind recovery. 
Been very happy with both.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

On the flipside, WebMD gives an outline of symptoms that could indicate that you're not getting adequate levels in your diet:









7 Signs You're Not Getting Enough Protein


Are you getting enough protein in your diet? Learn to spot the warning signs of protein deficiency, who is the most at risk, and when you need more protein.




www.webmd.com





I


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

My protein intake is entirely plant based. 

The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) formula for protein I'm familiar with is body weight (in pounds) x0.36 = recommended protein intake (in grams). Same formula as in Crankout's link.

A plant-based diet, can provide all the protein our bodies need without all the fat, saturated fat, and cholesterol that are consumed in high-protein foods, like meat, dairy products, and eggs. Fruits and vegetables, contain protein, while certain plant-based foods, like whole grains, beans, nuts, lentils, tofu, and quinoa pack an extra protein punch. Most countries exceed the recommended need for protein.

The real deficiencies in the standard American/Canadian diet? Most people don’t eat enough vegetables or fiber—a nutrient that can help control weight, lower cholesterol, and even fight off cancer. It’s extremely hard to succumb to protein deficiency unless you are truly starving, an AIDS patient, or a drug addict. 

The importance of protein: you can lose weight and gain muscle, it is critical for energy and carrying oxygen, it affects your organs, muscles bones, skin, teeth and hair. If your overweight, vegan protein is the key to weight loss on a plant-based diet.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Crankout said:


> On the flipside, WebMD gives an outline of symptoms that could indicate that you're not getting adequate levels in your diet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They missed one of the signs: Death

Oh WebMD, if only folks would not search for illness on the internet, it is truly a pain in the arse for medical providers. The other thing that folks do that just drives me crazy is when they see an advertisement and decide they must have that treatment or they worry that they are sick with something previously undiagnosed.

Folks see Zebras everywhere..

Seriously, I think folks were better off when they didn't know...


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## steadite (Jan 13, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Plenty of high level athletes eat like crap and still perform well. Usain Bolt once said his favorite pre-race meal was chicken McNuggets.


I’d wager basically no one can do it past 50.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

steadite said:


> I’d wager basically no one can do it past 50.



Yeah totally agree, that's what I said on post #10


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## the_royal_we (Apr 10, 2021)

cyclelicious said:


> My protein intake is entirely plant based.
> 
> The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) formula for protein I'm familiar with is body weight (in pounds) x0.36 = recommended protein intake (in grams). Same formula as in Crankout's link.
> 
> ...


With you on the plant based eating. However am upping my personal protein content with shakes and some vegan 'meats.' Been reading a bit about absorption not being as good as we age. Currently shoot for 100 to 140 grams a day. Also, I'm cutting and find that a lot of the plant based sources of protein would require calorie counts too high for my current goals (you have to eat a lot of beans, lol). When I reach goal weight (really goal body fat percentage) then I hope to drop or greatly reduce the shakes.


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## Red Leg 2 (May 4, 2014)

cyclelicious said:


> My protein intake is entirely plant based.
> 
> The Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) formula for protein I'm familiar with is body weight (in pounds) x0.36 = recommended protein intake (in grams). Same formula as in Crankout's link.
> 
> ...


Sardines packed in water (yuck) Become quite palatable smothered in tomato sauce and Mrs. Dash. Huge for protein.


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## Red Leg 2 (May 4, 2014)

steadite said:


> I’d wager basically no one can do it past 50.


Up until age 50 my pre-ride breakfast was half a cup of yogurt and a tiny bit of wheat bran followed by 4 or 5 cups of ridiculously strong perked coffee. I would easily last three hours on the trail. Damn but those were perfect days.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

When you study what people eat around the world, what they have been eating in the last 500 years
there are clues. The last book out, the last trend are just money makers we should not read nor listen to.
Millions of humans are healthy eating potatoes at each meals, for others its corn, and for billions it is rice.
North american generaly eat way too much protein.
Many work in the field 6 or 7 days a week so you might enjoy feeling special but there is no extra need
for you and i.
Flexibility is under rated why not focus on that?
You want to be healthy?
The quality is important so eat lentils and beans wich are quality proteins.
I do not measure stuff but i avoid most animal products.


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

I've not heard that north americans eat way to much protein. It is normally said they eat way to much sugar. That they don't get enough protein and compensate with cheap sugar products. Meh. I eat what I want with some consideration to avoiding sugar.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Current recommendations is to get 75-80% of your protein from plants.

Americans eat way too much protein, as well as bad fats and simple carbohydrates.

Yes, you can eat anything you want, your medical providers will appreciate the business


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

*Does the timing of protein intake matter for muscle-building?*











If you’re trying to put on muscle, you probably pay close attention to protein. Combined with resistance training – the most potent stimulus for increasing muscle mass and strength – getting enough protein can help you realize this goal.

Is there an optimal time, though, to eat that protein?

Perhaps you’ve heard that consuming protein immediately after a workout boosts muscle-building. Or that a protein shake before you sleep is best to enhance exercise-induced muscle gain.

Turns out, evidence doesn’t support meticulously timing your protein shake around workouts or bedtime.

Here’s what to know about the link between protein timing and muscle mass and strength.

*How much protein for muscle-building?*
Amino acids, the building blocks of protein, are used to repair and build muscles tissues that break down during exercise. Replacing valuable muscle protein helps you recover faster and train harder.

If your goal is to gain muscle, you need to consume twice as much protein each day as a sedentary person does.

According to a 2018 review of 49 randomized controlled trials, a daily protein intake of 1.6 g per kilogram of body weight (0.73 g protein per pound) significantly increased muscle strength and size.

An 82 kg (180 lb.) person, then, would need to consume 131 g of protein per day. For perspective, six ounces of chicken have 38 g of protein, two large eggs have 12.5 g, one cup of Greek yogurt has 24 g, on -cup of chickpeas has 15 g and one serving of protein powder typically delivers 20 to 30 g.

The analysis, which included 1,863 healthy adults who participated in resistance training two to five days a week for at least six weeks, concluded that consuming protein beyond this amount did not result in further gains in muscle mass.

*Is timing really everything?*
The idea that, in order to optimize muscle growth, it’s necessary to consume protein (and carbohydrates) immediately after a strength workout has been around for some time.

The theory goes that doing so within a 30-minute “anabolic window” will increase muscle protein synthesis, reduce muscle protein breakdown and replenish muscle glycogen (carbohydrate) stores. Miss this eating window and recovery won’t be ideal.

The evidence, however, doesn’t support this strategy. Studies have found that the window of opportunity for protein intake to support muscle growth is quite wide.

A 2013 review of 43 trials found that timing protein intake within an hour of training sessions didn’t have a significant effect on muscle growth. Instead, the strongest predictor of increased muscle size was total daily protein intake.

What matters most, it seems, is that you consume the protein you need over the course of a day.

To maximize muscle protein synthesis, research also suggests it’s important to distribute your protein over three meals rather than skewing it to one meal.

*Is a bedtime protein shake helpful?*
Drinking a casein protein shake before bedtime is also promoted to maximize the muscle gains of resistance training. It’s claimed that casein, a slowly digested dairy protein, enhances overnight muscle protein synthesis.

A 2015 study of 44 young men participating in a 12-week weightlifting program found that those given a presleep shake of 30 g of casein and 15 g of carbohydrate gained more muscle compared to those who consumed a calorie-free drink.

The researchers weren’t certain, however, if the observed muscle benefits were due to the timing of the protein, or simply a higher total intake of protein and calories.

A 2018 study conducted in older men showed no effect of a bedtime casein on muscle mass and strength during a resistance training program. Another study in young men found that consuming a casein supplement either early in the day or shortly before bed were both effective for increasing muscle, suggesting that it’s total daily protein that matters, not timing.

*Bottom line*
According to Stuart Phillips, a professor in kinesiology at McMaster University and a Tier 1 Canada Research Chair in Skeletal Muscle Health and Aging, “nutrient timing has an almost immeasurable effect on exercise-induced muscle gains.”

He adds, “it might give athletes looking to climb on the podium an edge but, even then, it’s doubtful.”

The best evidence shows that building muscle requires, along with resistance training, meeting daily protein and calorie requirements. If doing so means including a protein shake, that works. But don’t worry about downing it immediately after your workout.









Does the timing of protein intake matter for muscle-building?


Consuming protein immediately after a workout boosts muscle-building, but before bedtime? That’s a different question




www.theglobeandmail.com


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## Red Leg 2 (May 4, 2014)

telemike said:


> I recently had a discussion about protein requirements with a friend after reading an AARP article on seniors not getting enough protein in their diet. The article recommended 25 - 35grams (about 1 oz) with each meal, that is, three times a day. They also suggested increased amounts after significant exercise.
> 
> I looked at my protein intake and it seemed to average about 10 - 40 grams per meal with the average below the articles 25 - 35 gram at each meal. I get protein at breakfast from an egg, a small sausage patty, and whatever amount is in the english muffin, fried potatoes, or toast that goes with breakfast.
> 
> ...


AARP is in the business of selling stuff. Splitting hairs concerning diet can cause insanity. 🚴‍♀️


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

telemike said:


> I recently had a discussion about protein requirements with a friend after reading an AARP article on seniors not getting enough protein in their diet. The article recommended 25 - 35grams (about 1 oz) with each meal, that is, three times a day. They also suggested increased amounts after significant exercise.
> 
> I looked at my protein intake and it seemed to average about 10 - 40 grams per meal with the average below the articles 25 - 35 gram at each meal. I get protein at breakfast from an egg, a small sausage patty, and whatever amount is in the english muffin, fried potatoes, or toast that goes with breakfast.
> 
> ...


So Mike, here's the reason AARP is discussing low dietary protein in seniors: 

As folks get older, they don't need as much nutrition, generally because they're less active. So what happens is they eat fewer meals, snack more, and cook less. The quality of their diet worsens because snacking is generally all fat and carbs.

So yes, dietary protein in seniors is a problem, but only because seniors don't eat right.

I see a lot of this ^ in the seniors I treat, so I tell them to stop snacking and to get back to cooking at eating regular meals. I also tell them to exercise more ... and their response is often along the lines of: "I walk to the mailbox every day".

There's a huge difference between the protein needs of an older athlete and an older couch potato.

Yes, you're old enough for AARP, but they're not talking to you.


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## red_5ive (Jun 19, 2018)

.


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