# Which is the best GPS for backcountry mtb?



## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

My phone ain't cutting it, even with maps downloaded to mtbproject or trailforks. The accuracy just isn't there. I'm considering either Garmin 130 or 530. Main features I want are turn by turn maps and long battery life.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

Probably an Edge 830 at minimum. You need to clarify whether you need to actually view maps, or just need mapping with turn-by-turn directions. The larger the screen the better. The touch screen on the 830 and 1030 vs. buttons on the 530, allow panning and zooming on the map. 

The 530, 830 and 1030 will all allow the TF app to function, thus you can pre-configure a route on TF online, then download the route to the device. 

Note as well that GPS accuracy in wooded area's is hit and miss on ALL GPS devices, due to the inherently weak signal from the satellites. The signal gets bounced around and creates track and speed errors. Many mt. bikers use a Garmin speed sensor as add-on to allow better accuracy, a sensor is often included in a "bundle", so watch for sales. They run about $40 alone.


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## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

Catmandoo said:


> Probably an Edge 830 at minimum. You need to clarify whether you need to actually view maps, or just need mapping with turn-by-turn directions. The larger the screen the better. The touch screen on the 830 and 1030 vs. buttons on the 530, allow panning and zooming on the map.
> 
> The 530, 830 and 1030 will all allow the TF app to function, thus you can pre-configure a route on TF online, then download the route to the device.


I know that preloading a route is more foolproof but I'd like something where I can roll on the fly too. Definitely looking for turn by turn functionality.

I don't need cadence or speed sensors, can't care less about that with a mtb. As far as the gps not being accurate, would it get a good location in a field or if I found a spot with less trees?


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## trulede (Sep 12, 2018)

830 and upwards should do that. You can download your own maps and then AFAIR turn by turn will work. The included base map is perhaps ... not so great.

For navigation you don't really need a speed sensor. However a speed sensor is pretty handy for mountain biking, because often the GPS signal is not that great under trees.


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## hammersorethumb (Sep 14, 2018)

The role of the speed sensor in this case is to measure distance with more accuracy than the GPS can, because it is recording the rotation of your tire on the ground. This could be helpful for navigation. I use a Garmin 530 and it works great in Northern California forests. for any GPS, Garmin, Wahoo, or other brand you want to look for one that has Glonass and Galileo. "*GLONASS* is generally more precise in mountainous regions, while *Galileo* offers better *accuracy* in urban environments. When you combine either of these two systems with *GPS*, your receiver will usually be dead on about your location.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

PTCbiker said:


> My phone ain't cutting it, even with maps downloaded to mtbproject or trailforks. The accuracy just isn't there. I'm considering either Garmin 130 or 530. Main features I want are turn by turn maps and long battery life.


What is a "long battery life" to you? That's important to define.

Also, if you want mapping of any sort, you don't want an Edge 130. The 530 will do the job if you like physical buttons. The 830 if you prefer a touchscreen. I'm a physical buttons kinda person. Even a 520 will do most of what you ask, though the map area you can install is pretty small (memory limitation) and takes a little know-how to pull off (it wasn't really designed as a mapping GPS, but it can, to an extent). The 530 addresses those issues.



Catmandoo said:


> Probably an Edge 830 at minimum. You need to clarify whether you need to actually view maps, or just need mapping with turn-by-turn directions. The larger the screen the better. The touch screen on the 830 and 1030 vs. buttons on the 530, allow panning and zooming on the map.
> 
> The 530, 830 and 1030 will all allow the TF app to function, thus you can pre-configure a route on TF online, then download the route to the device.
> 
> Note as well that GPS accuracy in wooded area's is hit and miss on ALL GPS devices, due to the inherently weak signal from the satellites. The signal gets bounced around and creates track and speed errors. Many mt. bikers use a Garmin speed sensor as add-on to allow better accuracy, a sensor is often included in a "bundle", so watch for sales. They run about $40 alone.





PTCbiker said:


> I know that preloading a route is more foolproof but I'd like something where I can roll on the fly too. Definitely looking for turn by turn functionality.
> 
> I don't need cadence or speed sensors, can't care less about that with a mtb. As far as the gps not being accurate, would it get a good location in a field or if I found a spot with less trees?





trulede said:


> 830 and upwards should do that. You can download your own maps and then AFAIR turn by turn will work. The included base map is perhaps ... not so great.
> 
> For navigation you don't really need a speed sensor. However a speed sensor is pretty handy for mountain biking, because often the GPS signal is not that great under trees.


Tree coverage has a FAR smaller effect on GPS reception than you think now that modern receivers have improved multipath (reflected signal) processing. The thing that impacts GPS reception the most for our practical purposes is terrain. In particular, terrain that BLOCKS portions of the sky, especially for satellites that are low in the sky.

The reason wheel sensors are important for accuracy in mtb riding is a totally different issue. It's the shortcutting of turns that's inherent in any semi-accurate GPS device. Point are recorded along the path, and the GPS draws a straight line between them. The closer together those recorded points are, the more closely the path matches the trail. Going slow on a twisty trail will result in a recording that's pretty accurate (but still short). Go fast in a twisty section of trail, and your recorded points will be farther apart. That means the straight segments in curves will shortcut even more, resulting in a larger discrepancy. The tighter the corner, the more gets chopped off. The straighter the trail, the more accurate your recording without a wheel sensor.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

I use OnX Hunt for off line GPS on my phone and its amazing. They also have a hiking version as well.

7 day free trial to see if it's any better than what your using now on your phone. 








onX Backcountry GPS Map App for Navigation, Hiking, Skiing & Backpacking


onX Backcountry, the ultimate GPS navigation app for outdoor pursuits including backpacking, hiking, skiing, and more. Free trial.




www.onxmaps.com


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## trulede (Sep 12, 2018)

Harold said:


> Tree coverage has a FAR smaller effect on GPS reception than you think now that modern receivers have improved multipath (reflected signal) processing.


Yep, speed sensors also give much more accurate distance readings. I had an 820, and now an Elemnt, and in both cases speed accuracy is better in winter (almost no foliage), and worse in summer (very heavy foliage). The terrain is for the most part stable year round. Actually, the Elemnt is a bit hopeless without a speed sensor.

But in terms of knowing my position, the speed sensor is of no use, it only knows how far ... and not in which direction.


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## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

Interesting points about the speed sensor, figured it would be useless on a mtb if you have a gps computer. My vivoactive 3 watch says I rode 30.18 miles yesterday but maybe it was 32 miles since it didn’t get every turn.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

PTCbiker said:


> Interesting points about the speed sensor, figured it would be useless on a mtb if you have a gps computer. My vivoactive 3 watch says I rode 30.18 miles yesterday but maybe it was 32 miles since it didn't get every turn.


If anything the wheel sensor is more important on a mtb on twisty trails. you just don't see that on a road bike. I like a wheel sensor on my road bike because there are tunnels on the roads I like to ride, and they absolutely wreck the GPS data, so keeping track of my distance through there is pretty beneficial when the gps receiver records my position everywhere except the road I'm on until it drops completely.

The other place it helps is when you're collecting fitness data for training purposes. The wheel sensor gives you more precise data points on speed and distance, which is often used to calculate OTHER metrics.


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## provin1327 (Mar 31, 2013)

I really like my Garmin Edge 530 for navigating in new areas. The main reason I purchased it was because it was integrated with Trailforks so most mountain bike trails are already pre-loaded into the device. You can also use Trailforks to create a route then send that route to the Garmin and it will appear as a highlighted route. Very, very helpful when riding in new areas. It's so nice to get to a trail intersection and only have to take a quick look at the Garmin to see which way to go. It will also give you an alert if you take a wrong turn and get off of your pre-determined route. In terms of battery life it's long enough that I never have to pay attention to it and I charge it maybe once every other week.

When the device first came out it was very glitchy but they've had a few updates to fix things. My only gripe is actually browsing trails on the device (like you would do with your phone via pinch and zoom on the Trailforks app) isn't great. The Edge 830 may be better.

You didn't mention data being an important feature for you but there is one awesome data feature on the Edge 530 called ClimbPro. When you load a route into the device and go for a ride the device will alert you when a sustained climb is coming up. It shows how long the climb is, how steep it is (color coded chart), how much mileage, time, and elevation you have left in the climb. It's super helpful to know what's coming up in a route (ex you're 7 miles into a 14 mile route and you still have two 1.5K' climbs in your future or you're half way through one of the climbs and want to look down and see how much more climbing you have to do.)

One more thing, the device also integrates with Strava so no more having to use your phone to record rides. It automatically uploads too.


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## Catmandoo (Dec 20, 2018)

It’s generally very hard to create new routes on the device. You’d want as large a screen as possible as you need to be able to place control points near intersections and such (Not even sure that’s possible in Garmin, never tried it). That’s doable on a tablet of large phone, not as easy on even the largest Garmin 1030. Generally what you do is use the map to figure out your position, then just follow trails as needed. 

Ive used Trail Forks to navigate a new mt. bike trail system. It perfectly gave me turn-by-turn directions. My problem was unlike a road ride, it’s hard to take your eyes off the trail to watch for the upcoming turns information on the device. Best use (IME), was to follow TBT when I hit intersections. That’s on a pre-determined route that I created on the Trail Forks website and downloaded to the device (really easy and straight forward).


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I don't know about "best" GPS, but I have been using a Garmin eTrex 20 on my bars for every ride I've done. Trail shredding, backcountry epics and bikepacking trips. It's rugged, excellent battery life and it's easy to use one handed while riding. If I was going to fault it for something the screen is small, but that's probably also why the batteries last a long time and I haven't destroyed it when it's come loose from my bike and bounced down the trail a few times.


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## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

I ordered the Garmin Edge 530 mountain bike bundle that includes speed sensor. Will report back to this thread after next backcountry ride.


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## Bill1974 (Jul 15, 2020)

I have the Edge 530, the buttons are little annoying to use, a touch screen would be nicer. But for me I didn't need to spend more. Like others have said, I don't find myself looking at the screen other than when on the road or stopped. But it's nice to easily get an idea of where you are and not have to pull out the cell phone to figure it out. Not sure how well it will work there are no real reference points, I have lakes/ponds and roads usually close enough to get a good enough idea.


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## PTCbiker (Sep 15, 2020)

I downloaded a bunch of routes that were already on trailforks, having a little trouble creating a point to point route but I’ll figure it out.

Can’t wait to try it on the next backcountry ride.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

vikb said:


> I don't know about "best" GPS, but I have been using a Garmin eTrex 20 on my bars for every ride I've done. Trail shredding, backcountry epics and bikepacking trips. It's rugged, excellent battery life and it's easy to use one handed while riding. If I was going to fault it for something the screen is small, but that's probably also why the batteries last a long time and I haven't destroyed it when it's come loose from my bike and bounced down the trail a few times.


The screen is small, the processor is slow, the UI is poor, but the battery life is several days in the cold with lithium batteries (and I'd assume the same in warmer climates with alkaline). Due to this, there is no equal, being able to run for days on one set of batteries and being able to switch when they die. The re-chargy Li Ion stuff is fine for shorter trips and warmer places, but anything "outdoor" with Li Ion tends to crap out pretty fast in the cold. The battery life and ability to use lithium (full volts down to -20F and they still work below that) has no equal I'm aware of. Etrex32


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