# your home made jigs



## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Hi everyone,

I'm starting to work on building my own jig. I was planning on something very similar to the "simplest frame jig" on instructables, but I thought some inspiration might be helpful. If you have a minute, could you show me yours? 
Thanks!


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## zipzit (Aug 3, 2005)

I thought this was a great overview of jigs and fixtures...

zip.


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## alexmeade (Jan 4, 2012)

*Frame Jig*

Here's a shot of my setup. Inputs are: BB drop, CS length, front-center, fork rake, ST angle, HT angle, and distance to the bottom of the lower head lug. Close-ups here:

Flickr: ameade1's Photostream


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Sweet.

Zipzit, that is a good overview, its really nice to see the variations that people are coming up with.

And Alex, your stuff looks very, very nice.


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## Blaster1200 (Feb 20, 2004)

Alex, what's the weight of that structure? It looks heavy!


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## alexmeade (Jan 4, 2012)

Blaster, I've not weighed it, but it's likely north of 100 pounds. All of the big flat parts are made from MIC6, but there's quite a bit of flat-ground steel and stainless in there as well. The fixture lays back flat on a pivot (not shown) and locks into the flat position for easier setup. It also can rotate freely in the plane of the frame for easier brazing access. Both axes of rotation are balanced, so the weight is not noticed.

Alex
Tools


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## kampgnar (Apr 13, 2007)

Not fully complete, but I'll throw this one into the mix.

More shots and info here


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## back40 (Apr 15, 2006)

Double Post


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## back40 (Apr 15, 2006)

This one I built about 10 years ago, now being used for carbon assembly. If I build another one I'd add more offset for better tacking access. I'd probably get all the parts waterjet cut from MIC6 plate as well.


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

Here's mine, Rexroth profiles (45x45 and 45x90) + some milled parts:


Jig 2.0 par Edelbikes, sur Flickr


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

I find it interesting that for the most part people seemed to have coalesced around the plate type fixture. That is either a structure on the drive or non-drive that has bits that hold the frame offset from that.

There are other designs such as the beam type where there is a central beam along the bottom of the frame and you build upwards (many motorcycles jigs use this) or the picture frame jig. A very common design in the past. I believe Ant bikes uses this. Also, Doug Fattic's fitting jig which work from a surface plate and Alex Meade's simple fixturing solution from a surface is also excellent.

IMHO a solid, flat surface is a much more important thing to own initially than a dedicated frame jig. 

All fixtures have advantages and disadvantages. but for ease of construction if I had to do it over again and was working with minimal equipment I would most likely use the central beam idea or the surface plate solutions.


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## 3wfab (Aug 1, 2010)

rocking the beam here


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

dbohemian said:


> I find it interesting that for the most part people seemed to have coalesced around the plate type fixture.


I have no idea how many of which commercial jigs are sold, but this observations seems to correlate with my hunch that Anvil/Bringheli/Henry James might be the most popular? [/wild speculation]


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

Feldybikes said:


> I have no idea how many of which commercial jigs are sold, but this observations seems to correlate with my hunch that Anvil/Bringheli/Henry James might be the most popular? [/wild speculation]


I don't know how many jigs the others sell, but I do know that the 67th Type 3.1 Journeyman is on the proofing table now to go out tomorrow and we started selling those in May '11.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

3wfab said:


> rocking the beam here


Ah, a two-stage differential jig. I played around with that design for a while, and was wondering when I'd see something like it. I think it's a great design for the garage/basement builder that doesn't have a lot of room.


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## 3wfab (Aug 1, 2010)

You're spot on regarding the real estate. Super simple and with good rigidity and repeatability.



dr.welby said:


> Ah, a two-stage differential jig. I played around with that design for a while, and was wondering when I'd see something like it. I think it's a great design for the garage/basement builder that doesn't have a lot of room.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

DWF said:


> I don't know how many jigs the others sell, but I do know that the 67th Type 3.1 Journeyman is on the proofing table now to go out tomorrow and we started selling those in May '11.


I'm going to have to guess that ~100/year puts you at/near the top. [/less wild speculation]


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I have a beam design underway, based on a fixture a friend of mine has. Nailing down a couple of small improvements, and it will be ready.


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

3wfab said:


> rocking the beam here


Do you have any shots of a frame loaded into that? Had a look on your site and didn't see any.


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## 3wfab (Aug 1, 2010)

shirk said:


> Do you have any shots of a frame loaded into that? Had a look on your site and didn't see any.


Here you go.


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## Feldybikes (Feb 17, 2004)

3wfab, 

Slick. Looks like you have some measuring tapes glued on there, so I assume you have a spreadsheet to calculate angles and positions. And then do you use a giant protractor or and angle finder for the seat tube?


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## Francis Buxton (Apr 2, 2004)

I don't know how 3wfab does his, but on mine, you draw a nice 2d drawing in CAD. I use AutoCAD at work, so I've got good access, and 2d drafting like this is pretty quick and easy. I draw the frame out as it would sit in the bike, and then you have an offset concentrically from the bottom bracket. For mine, you basically draw a line from the center of the BB to an extension line from the head tube (perpendicular). Offset that by 3" below the centerline of the BB. From there, it's really just basic geometry to get all the lengths of tubes you need.

To do the rear triangle, you extend your "offset" line backwards past the dropouts. Draw a line from the center of the dropout perpendicular to the offset line. That tells you how far back along the fixture spine to set your dropout mount, and how far up from the spine you need to set your dummy axle holder.

It's all actually pretty slick and pretty simple to use. It's based off of a fixture that James at Black Sheep built for Rob Pennell (Badger) several years ago. Another friend has that fixture now, and I just want to build my own to a)not have to borrow his for 2 weeks at a time and b)make a few minor improvements to have more room to get the torch into places (especially under the BB).


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## 3wfab (Aug 1, 2010)

BikeCAD here. Use the Bicycle Machinery reference for setting HT. From there, I set the ST angle referenced off of the HT (which is 90 degrees).

I use a digital angle finder to dial in the ST, which is actually the rear triangle.

I build the rear first, simply because I can get over the 'hard' sometimes frustrating part of the build first.

I've built several variations of plate style jigs and IMO, that design utilizing the 80/20 stuff is way more involved than what I want to deal with. 80/20 isn't true and a PITA for jig setup (plate style). 

I'm loving this beam style. Its really simple and 'open' to work around.


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## jdsykes (Aug 29, 2010)

Any chance you could post some basic dimensions of this Jig? I really like the small size and simplicity.


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## IBBW (Mar 24, 2006)

*mine*


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

DWF said:


> I don't know how many jigs the others sell, but I do know that the 67th Type 3.1 Journeyman is on the proofing table now to go out tomorrow and we started selling those in May '11.


Curious how many shops are buying more than one?


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## Scotty510 (Nov 6, 2010)

Thanks to the forum for inspiration on my jig!

Alex Meade gets the credit for the machined bits.

Gonna build my first frame shortly, hopefully it rides straight lol!

Scott.


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## jgrano (Dec 5, 2011)

Just wondering if anyone has made a DIY style chain stay notcher? I'm trying to get out of buying the Anvil jig for my 1st tig frame...


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

http://forums.mtbr.com/frame-building/my-first-attempt-basement-framebuilding-684218-2.html

Scroll down toward the bottom of the page.


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## jgrano (Dec 5, 2011)

Thanks. Looks like I have some tooling to make.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Well..

You might learn more from doing some the old fashioned way. Then, when it came time to build such a fixture, if you felt you still wanted one, you might have a better feel for how to build it. I wound't call that one extreme or unnecessary (it's very nice), but it is a bit beyond DYI.


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## jgrano (Dec 5, 2011)

I have access to CNC mills & lathes so building tools isn't much a problem, just a time issue. 

I do like the idea of drafting it out with autocad/solidworks and just marking and cutting the tubes down by hand might be a nice way to get things aligned and have a develop a feel for it. I have cut down the main tubes with the ever popular tubenotcher program but couldn't find anything to deal with ovalized stays, Do you have any suggestions on where I might find one?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

jgrano said:


> I have cut down the main tubes with the ever popular tubenotcher program but couldn't find anything to deal with ovalized stays, Do you have any suggestions on where I might find one?


Sorry;

I'm not that far along The Path.


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## tamen00 (Mar 10, 2004)

I was not able to fina a template for my first couple of frames so I just traced a rough line with the BB shell on the oval chainstay... made sure to cut it a little long, then filed the chainstay until the fit was perfect. Then I used that miter and made a paper template for the other chainstay and filed it until it fit. Took a little while but worked great.


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## fanzy4 (Aug 19, 2004)

jgrano said:


> Just wondering if anyone has made a DIY style chain stay notcher? I'm trying to get out of buying the Anvil jig for my 1st tig frame...


Here's mine: 

Chainstay Jig par Edelbikes, sur Flickr


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## Smudgemo (Nov 30, 2005)

Jigs are cool, but I'm a founding member of the Cheap Bastards Club. As this is just a hobby, I seem to keep going toward simple as I get more comfortable with the build process. My miters are all done with files now, and fixturing is nothing more than V-blocks and quick clamps. Angles are derived from BikeCAD. I sometimes use a BB post, but it sucks so much heat even for tacking that I try to avoid it when I can.


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## IBBW (Mar 24, 2006)

_"Fixturing" _doesn't necessarily mean elaborate _tooling_. It could be nothing more than a really flat surface to work off of. The ability to hold things in place in a _precision_ manner while you work on it is fixturing in it's simplest form.


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## jamesford16 (Feb 20, 2012)

*Grt*

It's all actually pretty slick and pretty simple to use. It's based off of a fixture that James at Black Sheep built for Rob Pennell (Badger) several years ago. Another friend has that fixture now, and I just want to build my own to a)not have to borrow his for 2 weeks at a time and b)make a few minor improvements to have more room to get the torch into places (especially under the BB).


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## bee (Apr 7, 2008)

3wfab said:


> Here you go.


It's ok. However, with that beam-type of design there is no way to hold the seat tube when tacking the top tube or seatstays. This isn't a problem on the other types of jigs based on surface plates.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

bee said:


> It's ok. However, with that beam-type of design there is no way to hold the seat tube when tacking the top tube or seatstays. This isn't a problem on the other types of jigs based on surface plates.


True... in theory;

I hope he will not mind, but I have spoken to *3wfab* a number of times regarding his jig journey, and based on his very practical and lucid responses have decided to head in this direction myself.* He has already gone through both the "picture frame" and "surface plate" styles of 8020 jigs*, and found that the inconsistencies in the material coupled with the difficulty in setting the hard points correctly, made them far less ideal than you might imagine in just looking at one. If your jig is not true to start with due to material tolerance issues, then being able to fix the ST to a crooked jig is of no benefit. Adopting a more modular build by doing the usual ST-to-BB Shell first, and then building the rear triangle in separate jigging offer speed and ease of set up. He then brings the rear triangle into this jig for front tube fitment. I have costed out various configurations, and this one also has the benefit of being a couple hundred dollars cheaper!

All of these styles offer some degree of compromise, but he has found this one to be far less restrictive, more accurate, and far easier to deal with overall.


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## bee (Apr 7, 2008)

TrailMaker said:


> True... in theory;
> 
> I hope he will not mind, but I have spoken to *3wfab* a number of times regarding his jig journey, and based on his very practical and lucid responses have decided to head in this direction myself.* He has already gone through both the "picture frame" and "surface plate" styles of 8020 jigs*, and found that the inconsistencies in the material coupled with the difficulty in setting the hard points correctly, made them far less ideal than you might imagine in just looking at one. If your jig is not true to start with due to material tolerance issues, then being able to fix the ST to a crooked jig is of no benefit. Adopting a more modular build by doing the usual ST-to-BB Shell first, and then building the rear triangle in separate jigging offer speed and ease of set up. He then brings the rear triangle into this jig for front tube fitment. I have costed out various configurations, and this one also has the benefit of being a couple hundred dollars cheaper!
> 
> All of these styles offer some degree of compromise, but he has found this one to be far less restrictive, more accurate, and far easier to deal with overall.


The beam type jig that we are talking about has, IMO, far more downsides than the other types of jigs. The number one advantage is that it is lightweight and saves space compared to the other jigs. This advantage is really minimized when you consider that it is essential to have an alignment table especially when using this jig. Tacking the top tube/seat tube junction and the top tube/seatstays junction will go much farther out of alignment than a jig that holds those pieces in place while tacking.


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## 3wfab (Aug 1, 2010)

In reality, where most if not almost every one welds their bikes out of a jig (not to introduce the whole 'built in stress debate') , an alignment table is only smart, and certainly is needed with any jig style assuming you care and want to measure yourself/techniques. Funny thing, with the beam style jig I am using now, I am always in the .020 range for my ST alignment.

For me, it doesn't get much better than that. You can go loopy chasing numbers and for most builders, achieving less than .039 is acceptable. Measure some off the shelf bikes and then write home to mom.

Technique, not tooling my friends. That's where I want to be dialed.

As far as 'downsides'.....I believe the opposite. The beam preforms. I happen to know of a builder with multiple national championships frames that rocks the beam as well.

Beam me up Scotty-



bee said:


> The beam type jig that we are talking about has, IMO, far more downsides than the other types of jigs. The number one advantage is that it is lightweight and saves space compared to the other jigs. This advantage is really minimized when you consider that it is essential to have an alignment table especially when using this jig. Tacking the top tube/seat tube junction and the top tube/seatstays junction will go much farther out of alignment than a jig that holds those pieces in place while tacking.


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

bee said:


> when you consider that it is essential to have an alignment table especially when using this jig. Tacking the top tube/seat tube junction and the top tube/seatstays junction will go much farther out of alignment than a jig that holds those pieces in place while tacking.


It is ALWAYS essential to have a surface plate.....always, doesn't matter what jig you have. I can work jig-less. I can't work without a flat surface.

I can't agree with the rest either. Tacking correctly with proper heat control (be it TIG or brazing) holds your alignment. Not a jig.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Well;

This is the extent of my jig, and my first frame, so far. A ways to go yet,
but there is much learning to do along the way, and the journey worth
taking is taken in its own time.


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

80/20 users, Metric extrusions or Fractional? It seems there are more fractional components available.


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## todwil (Feb 1, 2007)

Cracked Headtube said:


> 80/20 users, Metric extrusions or Fractional? It seems there are more fractional components available.


Made with fractional know real reason it's just what I picked!!


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## edoz (Jan 16, 2004)

Cracked Headtube said:


> 80/20 users, Metric extrusions or Fractional? It seems there are more fractional components available.


I use fractional, only because the first pieces I got were from work and they don't speak metric there.


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## Cracked Headtube (Apr 16, 2006)

Thanks, I figured as much. Did anyone use the Autocad plug-in to build their fixture fix then send off a bill of materials. seem like the easiest, most straight forward method. I'm looking for a friend with Autocad to 'borrow' the program for this.


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Hey everyone. I finally finished mine. Here it is:


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

adarn said:


> Hey everyone. I finally finished mine. Here it is:


What's that extrusion?


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

I made three (Mediocre) frames with it.









And then I set it as a "Sculpture" at my bike shop.


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

dr.welby said:


> What's that extrusion?


It's actually channel, for big glass windows and storefronts. I can post more pictures if you're interested.

My parents run a glass shop, so I got it all for free, which was pretty nice.


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

After building frame #1 I was planning on following the sound advise of acquiring a surface plate for #2. Well it turns out that kind of thing is hard to find. On the other hand, 80/20 has pretty much their entire catalog on eBay. Between the eBay store and the local "strange" hardware store I was able to cobble together a Jig for about 300.00. In retrospect I could have saved some here and there, but don't regret the money spent.

I choose not to use any of the plate style pivots, instead using a bunch of 90deg angle joints. It just seemed like that would better retain the accuracy of the extrusions. It's a pain to set up, lots of measuring and fiddling with a digital angle finder. But at the pace I plan on building, not harming the accuracy of the jig is more valuable than being able to change things quickly.


Jigloaded by G&J AMES, on Flickr

The dropout mount was built with an Anvil dummy axle in mind from the start. That dummy axle alone probably has 25% of the credit for frame #2 coming out straighter than #1. I actually set the jig from the axle forward. It has the most variability of all the mounting points so I set them as square as possible and adjusted everything else off of that.


rearjig by G&J AMES, on Flickr

The BB post, seat tube, and head tube mounts were made with some luck at the hardware store. Turns out 3/4" drive sockets can become off the shelf centering cones.

7/8ths impact is pretty close to 27mm


stpost by G&J AMES, on Flickrv

19mm pretty good for the BB, I also made a fixture to locate the direct mount front derailleur post that bolts up to the BB post.


bbpost by G&J AMES, on Flickr

1 3/8" for the 44mm Paragon ht


44htpost by G&J AMES, on Flickr


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Super cool, G-reg, that looks awesome!


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Very Resourceful, G-reg;

There is an undeniable elegance in such resourcefulness!


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Nothing revolutionary here...

Finally scraped the cash to buy my extrusions and hardware. Just put it together this
week and found a home for all the fixturing I've been making/assembling for months. I can 
anticipate it might be a bit tedious to set up, but the versatility & conformability should be 
extreme.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Looks great! This is an awesome thread - as someone who is more interested in the bicycle side of things (so I tend to be lame and just buy my tools instead of making them) I find these projects fascinating. Great stuff!

-Walt


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## G-reg (Jan 12, 2004)

Very nice TM. I thought about building from the headtube back, talked myself out of it for some reason. Excellent access to everything with the main structure below vs on the side.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks Gents;

I am definitely a *3wfab *acolyte on the beam jig thing. Having studied all of this here for months, and having more than a fair bit of tangential fab experience, this set up made a lot of sense to me for many different reasons. Talking to *3wfab *privately, and *Mr. Bohm's* comments here in reference to the efficacy of same, cemented the deal. It is a bit of a mind bend to wade through the in-depth design phase of a bike frame, and then shift your brain to think of the bike in terms of the HT being vertical, but it does offer simplicity that cannot be overlooked.

Another deviation that *3wfab *makes in building is doing the rear triangle first. Since it is the most rigorous area, and takes the most concentration, it makes some sense to me to get it out of the way and "coast" through the front triangle to a glorious finish. In that light, the lack of ST stabilization inherent in this jig layout would seem to be minimized.

We'll see, and fairly shortly I hope! :thumbsup:


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## JaquesN (Sep 14, 2009)

So you're going to do the seat tube - bb join out of the jig, then clamp that assembly in place in the jig and build the rear triangle?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

JaquesN said:


> So you're going to do the seat tube - bb join out of the jig, then clamp that assembly in place in the jig and build the rear triangle?


Hey;










I have another fixture (above) to bolt to the deck for centering the ST to the BB housing for 
tacking. I'll miter the stays in my stay fixture (the axle holder here bolts to that as well), then 
transfer everything over to the main jig for positioning and tacking of the stays.


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## JaquesN (Sep 14, 2009)

Ron Sutphin's BB tacking jig is something I've wanted to make for myself for many years:


UBI Day 4 by Ronsta36, on Flickr

(Not my pic.)


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hmmm...

It certainly would not be that hard to make such a fixture. I'd be curious if he sees a reduction in deflection using that device over something conventional like mine.


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## J_K (Jan 18, 2010)

I have to say that this thread is very informative, especially those few last posts.
Hopefully I can show my jigs soon.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

People have wondered about the accuracy attainable with these erector set jigs. Mr. Bohm's comments about the importance of good technique over fancy equipment should resonate loudly. It certainly did in dispelling doubt of the potential of these jigs to yield good results. The last pics I posted of my ST-to-BB housing setup are a good illustration. While I do not possess a learned hand when it comes to the specifics of this bike building thing, I was able to set up this sub-assembly using nothing more than a machinist's square, tack it, and achieve a .012" (0.30mm) deviation from one end to the other.

Lucky or good, it worked very nicely.


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## sonic reducer (Apr 12, 2010)

When I set out to build a jig about a year and a half ago I had started on a much nicer machined aluminum one but ran into issues on various fronts. that one may become some sort of mitering fixture or fork fixture. Whipped this one up on the fly from all scrap, I have $0 into the framing, $40 something into the cones, and $20 into the BB fixture. 2x2x.125 as the frame and arms, 2x1/2 cold rolled for the sliders, 3/8-16 hardware. probably have 16 hours in it as it sits and to make another one would take me probably 6 due to no head scratching. I checked the tubes with machinist straight edge and they are pretty straight, but not very square. so I relied on the tubes straightness along one edge to make everything plane out. perfect? no. I just wanted to get away from building a spaceship with tweazers and just finish something to keep moving forward. the arms plane out very closely in various positions when projected out to the ends of two 6' levels. the sliders are all tight to a machinists square. I work in a shop with no precision tools save a sloppy grizzly mill drill and some machinist squares and dial calipers so I make do with what I can. the head tube cones were bought from ebay and the seat tube cone is a brass plumbing part I chucked into a mill and machined to a cone. it will be replaced. the bottom bracket fixture is an old steel loose ball cup that I welded to some plate, threaded into a paragon bb shell, chucked that into a lathe, and faced the plate. it has various spacers to get the shell to centerline on the jig, the centerline of the main frame is the centerline of the bike based on the head tube and seat tube locations. I will add additional pieces to make angle adjustment independent of horizontal and vertical. also a chainstay fixture, dummy axles, reference front axle, rule tape on the frame, measurement register points and some tweaking as necessary. this project is an experiment and an excersize to understand framebuilding mainly. will have to do some tweaking. 
sorry for the crappy pics.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Holy Crapoly;

That's some seriously nice scrap you have access to there! Gotta be $200-300 worth of steel easy. I'd certainly hate to try an move it! No reason it should not have the potential to work as well as any other home made rig.

So... when's the bike coming?


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## sonic reducer (Apr 12, 2010)

TrailMaker said:


> Holy Crapoly;
> 
> That's some seriously nice scrap you have access to there! Gotta be $200-300 worth of steel easy. I'd certainly hate to try an move it! No reason it should not have the potential to work as well as any other home made rig.
> 
> So... when's the bike coming?


It sucks to move. 100 lbs easy. The steel is just drops and nothing i wouldnt give away to a good cause, i have tons of 5' and under. 
Frame is coming when the rain comes back. The sun is out right now and in the pnw you have to get while the getting's good.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

*One persons rubbish becomes another persons treasure*

I ran out of MDF to back board and jig my builds, the kitchen joiner next door to me closed down. I had a couple of leftover Diamond drill rig parts sitting in a corner at my day job and recently a Diamond driller wore out his rig and was going to dump it. I saw the potential...

Apart from having a worn trolley, which took a little longer to recondition so it would align properly, this cost the paltry sum of $32-00 to get to a frame build stage. I do need to refine a couple of things, but I will do these as I progress on frame builds. I can do both frame and forks off this workstation. It will give me easy access to the frame from all angles.

I had intended to have a portable jig so I could stow it away, but it ended up a bit of a monster. Thought I would share the result as a way to inspire variations and options that can present themselves.

Eric


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## beerguitar69 (Nov 5, 2011)

Some nice setups


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## chojn1 (Dec 7, 2012)

I am sorry but none of you have home made jigs.
You all have professional jigs.

I have a home made jig:


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## chojn1 (Dec 7, 2012)

This jig is for alignment of the front 2/3 of the coupled carbon fiber tandem bike I am building - my first frame. It is made of wood blocks aligned on the tube axis using a leveling laser. 
I'll build another jig for the rear triangle.

CJ


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## JaquesN (Sep 14, 2009)

This and a fork jig are my jigs.


seat tube / bb joint jig by jimn, on Flickr

Otherwise, all bikes are built with a somewhat flat steel table, some square tubing, nuts, bolts, and tube blocks from Paragon.

I'm on bikes no. 12 and 13.


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## ras214 (Oct 2, 2007)

TrailMaker said:


> I can
> anticipate it might be a bit tedious to set up, but the versatility & conformability should be
> extreme.


Hey Trailmaker,
First off, let me commend you a what a beautiful frame you built. I've always loved the way rolled tubes look on bikes and your fabrication skills are fantastic.

I saw your jig setup and was hoping you'd help me out by answering a couple of questions. I've been building with a surface jig to this point but have recently started throwing together pieces to build an 8020 jig. I really like your design for its simplicity, but I'm a little confused about the setup. Any chance you'd be willing to walk us thru how you go about translating your design geometry to the jig?


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Whaddaya need to know?

All the real work is done on the computer. The actual build just follows those drawings. I 
do all my designing in CORELDraw. It works - albeit more laboriously than frame 
software. It's what I have. I also happen to have a 30" Graphtec vinyl/paper plotter that I 
use to make full size drawings that all of the tube manipulations are checked against. 
THIS is a big deal for/to me.

- Scale dimension drawing. Starts as tinker toy tubes and morphs to this "welded" frame 
when everything is set. This is what it will look like.










- First Build Drawing - Scale dimension drawing of the rear CS/BB. This gets built in a 
sub jig.










- JIG drawing. Frame rotated with HT vertical and pertinent hard points measured from 
there. All the fixtures are set in the beam jig using this drawing. This is how it looks in the
main jig.










That's it. It's all Pure Magic from there!


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## J_K (Jan 18, 2010)

I finally have my "homemade" frame jig in use. Basic design is from Kris from 44 Bikes, I made some modifications to make it suitable for my budget. Once funds allow I will make some upgrades.


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## ras214 (Oct 2, 2007)

TrailMaker said:


> - JIG drawing. *Frame rotated with HT vertical and pertinent hard points measured from
> there.* All the fixtures are set in the beam jig using this drawing. This is how it looks in the
> main jig.
> !


This pretty much sums it up for me. I saw the stick on ruler and thought there may be some advanced geometry or voodoo involved with setting the BB drop and head tube height. I guess this is one of those cases where the simplest answer is the best one.

thanks!


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## MiWi (Jan 1, 2013)

Hi guys.
I use rattle_CAD and the jig is based on the software output.
Everything is based on a line through the rear axle rectangular to the top-tube.
The jig can be rotatet in the roll-stand.

Setup sequence:
- headtube height
- distance seattube to headtube-axle (there is a bolt behind the seattube hollowprofile, sliding it, fasten the screw)
- seattube angle (angular offset from headtube, hollowprofile rotates around the bolt mentioned above)
- bbs height (sliding bbs fixture)
- rear-axle distance to headtube-axle

It´s the same schematic as the chris king jig uses.


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## farmerokbag (Jan 7, 2013)

me too,I don't know how 3wfab does his, but on mine, you draw a nice 2d drawing in CAD


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

This may have already been posted, but I will do it again:

My Almost-a-Jig based on Dr. Welby's design

http://forums.mtbr.com/frame-building/go-free-tubes-some-almost-jigless-tooling-380315.html

I am about to dig it out of the rafters and build more frames.


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## joshbm (Feb 1, 2013)

3wfab said:


> rocking the beam here


What are the lengths that you use for the extrusions in your beam jig, 3wfab? And for someone looking at building a similar jig would you recommended that length, or go longer/shorter etc.?


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## 3wfab (Aug 1, 2010)

24 for the vertical and 36 on the horizontal.

You cannot put an entire frame and have the HT and dropouts fixed at this length. To do that, you would need to increase the horizontal beyond 36.

For me, it's a non issue. I build my frame in 'sub assemblies' so I don't have the need to put the full frame in a jig.

Hope this helps-


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## joshbm (Feb 1, 2013)

Thats great thanks.

Time to get building


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## cyclomatt (Mar 4, 2008)

Here is mine. It is long enough to build a long bike on it. I made a long bike 29er with it and I think it is set up for that now.










PS. It is for sale if you are interested.

Matt
mlhoppen(at)gmail(dot)com


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## MannaDesigns (Mar 5, 2013)

*Jig in work*

So after staying up all night with my newborn son I drafted up my first jig concept and figured I'd post it for any suggestions. Still need some work on the rear axle, but the assumption/hope is to use an anvil dummy axle, or potentially machine my own if I can sort out the lathe access I might have.

Also, I think i'll beef up the rear axle pieces/braces, just doesn't seem right to me.

Also - for those out there using the 4337 Angle plate from 8020 for the main tubes, what do you suggest for mounting to the main beam? I'm not sure i really like the current setup with the main pivot bolt and angle clamp being the only thing that keeps those in place, and have seen others that have a seperate plate between the vertical arms and the main beam - I'm assuming thats to allow the post to be moved without adjusting the angle, but curious if there was other motivation as well.

Anyway, its a start. Plan is to model this up, as well as a Chainstay/seat stay DIY miter Jig I can use in my drill press, then start buying material and building it up.

I have rough start on a frame, but that needs even more work. Plan on getting that model up to speed soon as I sort out my Jig materials as I'll be waiting around for those.

One other question for you all - My design has custom cones, as I haven't had much luck sourcing any off the shelf part that could do that job. Is that correct for the most part?


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## TroyS600 (Mar 29, 2007)

Caught a glimpse of this in a Santa Cruz Bikes video, thought you guys here might appreciate a look-see.


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

MannaDesigns said:


> ieces/braces, just doesn't seem right to me.
> 
> Also - for those out there using the 4337 Angle plate from 8020 for the main tubes, what do you suggest for mounting to the main beam? I'm not sure i really like the current setup with the main pivot bolt and angle clamp being the only thing that keeps those in place, and have seen others that have a seperate plate between the vertical arms and the main beam - I'm assuming thats to allow the post to be moved without adjusting the angle, but curious if there was other motivation as well.


You can bolt the adjustable beams directly to main beam with button head allens and t-nuts. Just drill an access hole for your allen wrench for the bottom pivoting point, and a small slot for access to the top bolt. You can keep the pivoting bolt from sliding in the t-slot by blocking it in place with a locking t-nut on each side.

It's probably worth saying again that the Arctos jig that this style is based on was tricky in that the beams didn't pivot around a point on the mounting plate on the main beam. They actually rode in a pair of parallel arc-shaped slots that allowed the beam to pivot around a virtual pivot point - in the case of the seat beam around the centerline of the bottom bracket.


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## MannaDesigns (Mar 5, 2013)

dr.welby said:


> You can bolt the adjustable beams directly to main beam with button head allens and t-nuts. Just drill an access hole for your allen wrench for the bottom pivoting point, and a small slot for access to the top bolt. You can keep the pivoting bolt from sliding in the t-slot by blocking it in place with a locking t-nut on each side.
> 
> It's probably worth saying again that the Arctos jig that this style is based on was tricky in that the beams didn't pivot around a point on the mounting plate on the main beam. They actually rode in a pair of parallel arc-shaped slots that allowed the beam to pivot around a virtual pivot point - in the case of the seat beam around the centerline of the bottom bracket.


Thanks for the input - I hadn't seen that arctos jig, rather I saw a similar arctos copy from 8020 from another forum post... thats REALLY helpful. I'm gonna take another look at the actual arctos jig tonight and see if can't come up with a better way of mounting the main tube supports to pivot around the centers like you mention.

Also - good call on the locking in place suggestions, I like the ideas.

Thanks!


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## joshbm (Feb 1, 2013)

For the people with jigs using cones, what are your preferences on the material?
Stainless?
Steel?
Aluminium? 

I'm guessing that steel or stainless is better with the heat during tacking. Or is it not too much of an issue?

Cheers


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

Josh

I use Steel in mine, but I don't think it makes any difference between Steel or Stainless.

Eric


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

Mine are aluminum and they work just fine. Something harder would be better if you were doing production numbers, but for the garage builder it's good enough.


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## DSaul (Dec 13, 2012)

If you can't get cones, trailer hitch balls work very well. I have the ebay cones for my jig, but my first frame in the jig was with a 44mm paragon headtube and the cones were too small. I found that 1 7/8" trailer hitch balls work perfect. I got them for $5 each at the Tractor Supply store. The 1 1/2" balls should work nicely for a 36mm headtube.


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## joshbm (Feb 1, 2013)

Thanks for your suggestions. It sounds like you can get away with using any of the three, so I will probably just use whatever is the most easily available. I'll also keep trailer hitch balls in mind, quite a crafty solution!


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## frankzetank (Feb 5, 2013)

*My 1020 home made jig*

My jig as nothing special. It's a copy of the instructable version found here: The simplest bicycle framebuilding jig I could come up with.... The only difference is I've made it out of 1020 extrusion instead of 1530 so I figured I post my comments about that.

The 1020 extrusion made the jig both cheaper and lighter and I feel it will be strong enough for the light duty frame building that I will be doing with it. I got the cones and "BB seats" machined at a local machine shop and the rest of the drilling and cutting was done with simple tools and paper templates and stock 8020 parts.

I've yet to complete a full frame with it so my opinion may change but so far so good. First upgrade will be beefier rear wheel and BB axle that are currently made out of 3/8 threaded rods. I'd like to have something stiffer to ensure proper aligment. Some tape measure gluing might also happen to set up faster, but speed is really not important for my purpose. I used some plastic linear bearings to try and improve precision of the adjustments... we'll have to see if they survive the heat from brazing. I plan to only position and tack in the jig and complete the filet outside of the jig.

Overall dimensions are 48" wide by 39" height. I'll be abel to do some XL 29er on it.

Some pics


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## dr.welby (Jan 6, 2004)

frankzetank said:


> My jig as nothing special. It's a copy of the instructable version found here: The simplest bicycle framebuilding jig I could come up with.... The only difference is I've made it out of 1020 extrusion instead of 1530 so I figured I post my comments about that.


Cool! I've been waiting to see someone do some sort of linear bearing type mod to the design.


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Not exactly "home made" But I just finished my second jig, and unlike the first, this one is straight, rigid and actually kinda nice. A professor of mine helped me build it. He built frames in the 70s and 80s and then moved into precision machining. He was an awesome resource to have and he was generous enough to let my use his shop and a lot of is knowledge. 
It came out really great and I can't wait to start building frames on it.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

Brilliant set-up you have there.
Two things I like are: angle indicators for the seat tube off the BB and the descent gap to work around the rear side of a frame. I've seen some jigs with too little room in that off-side position, but you need a solid jig back-bone to make it work. Looks like you've received some really good advice.

Eric


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## calstar (Mar 26, 2013)

Very nice. How much machining time for the non 80/20 parts?

thanks, Brian


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Hey, thanks Eric! And Calstar, I'm not sure on a specific number, but it took us about
Five 12 hour days to make. It could have been faster if I knew Gibbs or mastercam better, but it did take a LOT of work.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

that is all for now


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## BenCooper (Feb 25, 2013)

Show off - it's looking gorgeous so far...


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

damn, that looks like it's going to be cool!


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## A_A (Sep 23, 2005)

*My updated jig*

I've been planning on a jig re-design for a while. My 1st version was an Arctos 80/20 copy that wasn't well executed and was so difficult to set up that it wasn't worth using. As a result I ended up using a "jigless" method and improvised fixturing. My goal was to make a new jig using my existing materials and tools that was suited to a hobby builder. For better or worse I always look at a bicycle frame as it is represented in my 2D drawing with the ground as my reference so that is how I proceeded.

Setup is as follows:

Make sure fixture is level left to right & front to back, threaded leveling feet are used.

Set head tube angle per drawing. Head tube holder is fixed at the front of the jig and can only change angle.

Set the front axle position. On the head tube holder I made a small angle piece that slides up and down to indicate the location of the front axle. A screw is use to represent fork offset. The BB holder on the jig does not adjust up and down and the center of the BB is set 45mm from the top of the jig. The axle height is the BB drop (from my drawing) + 45mm.

Set head tube in place. Stock with cones hold the head tube the proper distance from the front axle position.

Set the rear axle height. Similar to the front axle the height from the top of the jig is the BB drop (from my drawing) +45mm (this assumes that the same wheel size and tires are used on both ends of the bike)

Set the wheelbase length. Again the head tube holder does not adjust forward and backward so the dummy axle is moved to the correct position.

Set BB position. Use either front or rear axle as a reference.

Put BB / seat tube sub assembly in bottom bracket holder and set seat tube angle. I need to finish my seat tube holder, I plan to use a tube block on an adjustable arm of some type.

An Anvil Jig it is not but I find it easy to set up and use and I'm pretty happy with it.

AA


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

I hate to brag but my setup is kind of sophisticated


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

*Nice Jig!*



TrailMaker said:


> Nothing revolutionary here...


Hi Trailmaker,
Very nice looking Jig! Is there any chance you'd be willing to share your parts list and assembly details? I have zero experience in building bike frames, but the access you get by using a beam style over a plate style jig looks good.

Cheers.


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

chopboy said:


> Hi Trailmaker,
> Very nice looking Jig! Is there any chance you'd be willing to share your parts list and assembly details? I have zero experience in building bike frames, but the access you get by using a beam style over a plate style jig looks good.


Hey;

What specifics would you like to know? Other than a few 80/20 bits from their ebay store, most of the rest is home built.


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## chopboy (Jan 7, 2013)

Thanks Trailmaker, 
From the looks of the brackets and components on that jig I thought they may have been purchased. Some very nice fabrication work Trailmaker.


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## Fort Colin (Dec 1, 2013)

Hi, this is my first post. This is less of jig and more of cheap flat plate with adjustable "V" blocks made out of 80/20.














The flat surface came from my table saw which has a about a 2 foot square area that is flat within +/-0.005". Most of the 80/20 came from a local metal recycler. The head tube cones are bottom bracket nuts from a kids one piece crank from my local bike coop. With the small flat area I was able to build the front triangle and then turn the frame 180 and make the back triangle. Having a set of gauge blocks and a height gauge helped getting the height on the "V" blocks quickly and accurately. It is not a mountain bike, but the jig did make a straight city bike/ rando.







Cheers,
Colin


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

Fort Colin said:


> Hi, this is my first post. This is less of jig and more of cheap flat plate with adjustable "V" blocks made out of 80/20.


great first post. Did you modify the 80/20 to make 'v' blocks? How did you do it? Pictures? I have thought about using my tablesaw to just cut away part of the extrusion, but I've been hesitating because I thought it might just be a waste of extrusion.


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## Fort Colin (Dec 1, 2013)

Thanks unterhausen! The 'v' was cut with my band saw by carefully cutting the two insides of the outer edge, leaving the bottom still slotted to take 80/20 hardware and the top is a 'v'. I hope this pic does a better job explaining









For the seat tube I just used the middle channel of the 80/20 and a good clamp,


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## cable_actuated (Jun 7, 2012)

Colin's wife: Honey, can you rip this board for me on the table saw?
Colin: Sure, as soon as I'm done with this frame. It should be out of the jig this afternoon.

Two weeks later...frame still in jig...board still not ripped.

Otherwise looks pretty slick and highly adaptable. The extrusion v-blocks look sweet. I'll have to come by and check them out.


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## BenCooper (Feb 25, 2013)

For making Brompton-compatible rear triangles:



It opens up to release the frame:


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

BenCooper said:


> For making Brompton-compatible rear triangles:
> 
> 
> 
> It opens up to release the frame:


i like the use of the word compatible


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## BenCooper (Feb 25, 2013)

Different materials, different tube diameters, different dropout design, different plate thickness, different OLN, pretty much everything is different apart from the basic attachment points - so definitely not a copy ;-)


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## Tkul (Mar 1, 2007)

BenCooper said:


> Different materials, different tube diameters, different dropout design, different plate thickness, different OLN, pretty much everything is different apart from the basic attachment points - so definitely not a copy ;-)


Do you have complete bike pic?
Does it fold completely without any problem?
Are the dimensions folded equal to standard rear frame (due to OLD dimensions)?

Thanks!


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## BenCooper (Feb 25, 2013)

Not with this new rear triangle - I was modifying existing triangles:


Rohloff Disc Brompton by Ben Cooper, on Flickr

Folds exactly as normal - the only difference is that when folded the cranks can't rotate completely, so best to set the pedals horizontal before folding.

The folded package, with front and rear discs, ends up about 1" wider than standard.


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## Tkul (Mar 1, 2007)

I know it's Offtopic, but would you care to put more pics?
Have you widen the fork (you're using 100mm front hub, right?)
Like that Brompton! If nothing goes wrong, we´ll be at the BWC 2014


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## BenCooper (Feb 25, 2013)

A couple more of earlier bikes:





I just make new 100mm OLN disc forks...


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## seankanary (Feb 19, 2013)

Quick question - How would you guys cut these aluminum profiles keeping them square? I don't have access to a mill but do have a metal chop saw, however every time I cut aluminum, it leaves the edges pretty nasty.


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## DSaul (Dec 13, 2012)

The Freud D1080N saw blade works great for cutting aluminum with a chop saw or table saw. Its made with the proper hook angle and no offset for cutting non ferrous metals, so it doesn't tear up the cut edge.

Freud D1080N Diablo 10-Inch 80 Tooth TCG Non-Ferrous Metal and Plastic Cutting Saw Blade with 5/8-Inch Arbor and PermaShield Coating - Miter Saw Blades - Amazon.com


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## seankanary (Feb 19, 2013)

Thanks DSaul, I'll give that a shot.


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## adarn (Aug 11, 2009)

Just check it with a machinists square


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## JaquesN (Sep 14, 2009)

seankanary said:


> Quick question - How would you guys cut these aluminum profiles keeping them square? I don't have access to a mill but do have a metal chop saw, however every time I cut aluminum, it leaves the edges pretty nasty.


Not really an answer, but in using extrusion to jig things up, I have stopped relying on it to be square. I check things another way.


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## frankzetank (Feb 5, 2013)

seankanary said:


> Quick question - How would you guys cut these aluminum profiles keeping them square? I don't have access to a mill but do have a metal chop saw, however every time I cut aluminum, it leaves the edges pretty nasty.


I used my miter saw with a "regular" saw blade and checked it with a machinist square. A Freud (or any specific non ferrous metal saw) as pointed out by DSaul probably works best but my set up got the job done. Just feed the blade slowly.


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## sikocycles (Oct 10, 2005)

Does anyone have a Cad drawing of jig. I downloaded the ones off Grabcad but won't open in Pro Engineering. I want to get something build at work but don't want to use too much of the engineers time


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## frankzetank (Feb 5, 2013)

sikocycles said:


> Does anyone have a Cad drawing of jig.


I can share the CAD file I made for my 8020 jig. It's made out of 1020 sized extrusions. I can supply it in .STP format so you should be able to open it in Pro-E.

PM sent to you for sharing it.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

I have been making a new one.....


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## PithyBikes (Dec 30, 2014)

Hi guys,
Great jigs in here. Wish i found this thread a lot sooner.

I'm a beginner doing a frame build video series just for kicks. I'm at the beginning of building my own jig, my first jig! If you're interested drop in!

My most recent jig building videos:


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## silesianbike.pl (Sep 14, 2015)

Hi guys,
please check my blog: Silesianbike.pl - Blog o tym jak zbudowa? rower. I making there my frame jig. 
Please do not hesitate to comment.


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## silesianbike.pl (Sep 14, 2015)

Due to the problems with the handling of my back-end page silesianbike.pl, the rest of the publication will appear on this page Forum rowerowe. Very sorry for the inconvenience.
If someone has problems with the translation, please ask willingly help


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## MannaDesigns (Mar 5, 2013)

Compositepro - i wanna see more! what is the jig for? looks crazy cool...



compositepro said:


> View attachment 934229
> 
> 
> View attachment 934230
> ...


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