# How to bring riders into trail building



## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

Hi,

I'm a member of a SORBA/IMBA club way down south. South of Atlanta, Macon.

We have a handful of 5-7 mile loops sprinkled around our town which see a lot of use. Well, one suburban trail sees the bulk of it. Our club manages all of the trails, but we are only a fraction of the riders that are in the area. We are far outnumbered by the folks who pop in for a ride on the weekends and never say a word to anyone. 

Well, we are about to get cracking on a new trail system which will total 7-10 miles for us, which is quite a distance considering the amount of land realistically available for us in the area. In the club we are excited about the new SK650 we are buying with grant money and on which half a dozen of us are going to trained. We are hopeful that an RTP grant is in the offing, too.

Still, we're only really talking about 20 people at most in the core group. There are enough riders in the area to support two fully featured bike shops, so again we are really outnumbered by those who only ride. I have to imagine some number of them would get at least a little excited about our new trail and would want to work. The question is how do you get people clued in and involved?

Thanks,
Grant B.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

My $0.02:

Going specifically for trail workers is a dead end. Work on building the bike club first. I mean, especially if you are in it to build trails, put time into socializing. Bend over backward to support group rides, races, road trips, picnics, club meetings, table at charity events, etc.

Trail work days should include time for socializing. Drinking beer is popular around here. Consider buying a case and cooking up some brats to end the work day. Sure it costs something, but if you are anything like me, you are already several hundred bucks into personal trail work gear. Every parent knows that bribery works (at least for a while).

When the club is big enough you will get your workers.

Walt


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Free stuff! 

A core group of 20 riders who are excited about trail building is fantastic. 

Organized trail days sponsored by the local bike shops and other businesses works well in other areas. The North Shore of Vancouver can get up to 100 people to show up for some of their trail days IF the weather is good and IF the free stuff is enticing enough and IF there isn't anything better going on. That's in a city with 2 million people with thousands of mountain bikers.

I'm from a much smaller area still with a high proportion of riders. The typical mountain biker here is a 40-60 year old professional with no children and lots of disposable income. They are usually recently relocated from a city and just expect services like trail building and maintenance to be provided for them. I've tried everything to get riders to come out and build trails. I've had the best luck with young riders and people from other user groups, hikers, equestrians, etc.

I don't have any great solutions to get people to come out and work on the trails but I know a few things that DON'T work. Shame, guilt, threats, and begging.

One thing that did work was when I built a really nice section of flowy downhill trail in the middle of nowhere. No entrance and no exit, about a mile from the trail system. I left it for a year after telling one person about it. When I came back, a group of what I call freeloaders had gone out and built 2 miles of trail so they didn't have to carry their bikes in.


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## tflounder (May 12, 2008)

I agree - Free Stuff (food and beer) works better than anything! Most riders are casual enthusiasts/weekend warriors and often travel to ride. Create a social event to lure those riders that want to participate more. Also advertise or make your plans/needs clear to the average rider. Email blasts, Facebook groups, banners and signs let people know that your trails are volunteer built and maintained - many uneducated riders think trails are a product of state programs. Communicating with Joe Public is often more work than carving trails! Some trail days will be well attended other days you find yourself out there alone.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

I have found on the one or two "trail days" we have had locally that very little work gets done compared to a few dedicated people going out to build trails.

What does get accomplished is that awareness is increased, people tend to have a lot of fun, and you may find a couple of new recruits who get bitten by the trail building bug. One trail building fanatic is worth a hundred average people who are coming out either for the free swag, to socialize or because they feel guilty. The "trail day" is where these people find out they are fanatics.

One of the coveted prizes here is a T-shirt that says "I built **** Trail"


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

To add to the discussion:

If the trail will be open to foot traffic, recruit those users, too. Don't just focus on the mountain bike community.

Also, you'll find that (if you already haven't) 10% or fewer club members will regularly do trail work. No amount of schwag will change this. A lot of people value their riding time and will not sacrifice it...even for more trail....that they'll get anyway if they wait long enough. Sad but true.

Focus on making sure the work that IS done is performed properly on trail that has been laid out correctly, and reward those who ARE coming out by allowing them to name pieces of trail, build features, and get schwag.

D


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## spicewookie (Jun 3, 2008)

the t-shirt thing is great! another project....

we have a pretty active local forum and i take photos throughout the work day. people like to see themselves working hard. we always provide food/beer/schwag after. we always ride what we built (if it can be). photos are huge.

i do notice that 4 "regulars" can do as much as 20 untrained/skilled volunteers, so i try to organize days where i need low-skill, heavy man/woman power and leave the "heavy lifting" to a select few. volunteers need to feel a sense of accomplishment. i'd agree that building your core group is vital. we average 20-25 per workday, and i'd say we have 12-15 that make every single one. spread the word and then make sure people enjoy their time working and after. not rocket science....just rocks.


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## HypNoTic (Jan 30, 2007)

We have a club around here that have a "mandatory" half-day trail workshop at the beginning of the season. That way, all club members are aware of their impact on the trails and we are usually able to get a few new diggers each time around to renew the crew.

Also, the provincial trail advocacy organisation in partnership with the race federation just launched a new program: a provincial trail day. Organizers can't organize races that day. It will be our first year with that program and we'll see if it helps.

Finally, we are VERY active giving trail workshop all over the season, all over the province. We sometime have 10-12 peoples show up, sometime over 70. We bring the tools, lunch and expertise. Half-day classroom, half-day trail work, than ride and party. We are usually able to get 1-2 new trail leader at each venue that will then recruit his own team and take care of a trail.


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## spicewookie (Jun 3, 2008)

RACERS! i don't know if this is done elsewhere, but we have a local shop that sponsors a "Pay Dirt" program and racers get points (enough for a 1st place finish) to add to their series points. no matter their motivations, i'll take workers from anywhere.

link to Pay Dirt: http://www.tmbra.org/paydirt/paydirt.htm


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## ebxtreme (Jan 6, 2004)

Some astute answers here. I've found that a sincere "thanks", beer and food usually work on big days. We have most of our big build days sponsored by local shops and we're lucky that we have two manufacturers in town (Kona and Transition) that really support the trails. Realistically, our town of 85,000 people shouldn't support 5 high end shops, but they stay in business because of the amount of riders. They are smart enough to see the correlation, so you may just need to be not-so-subtle in your discussions with them about the benefit of more trails to the two shops.

If you have a handful of experienced people, make sure to team up the newbs with them so they get good tips and advice.



Trail Ninja said:


> I have found on the one or two "trail days" we have had locally that very little work gets done compared to a few dedicated people going out to build trails.


While I do agree that a handful of knowledgable and motivated folks can get a LOT of work done, I think "how productive" big build days are is directly proportional to how prepared you are. This is something we've really stepped it up on lately. For instance, by the time we have a bunch of volunteers on a trail, we've already done all (or most) of the prep work and planning. There are no questions about routing or where features will go, the tools are moved to the workspot, etc. If features are going to be built, then cedar is already cut for stringers and/or rungs split.

We just had a huge trailday on Sunday which had 60+ people come out and almost got an entire trail put in. With that said, I had 15+ afternoons of work to clear the corridor, get routing dialed, etc. By the time the volunteers showed up, it was all about clearing organic and moving dirt and we got the trail 3/4 buffed and the last 1/4 roughed. Granted, it's only 375 feet of vert, but it's a fairly long trail (total distance unknown yet) You can read more about that here.

Cheers,
EB


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

You guys make me feel far better about what we have going than I did when I wrote this morning.

We have engaged the local running club to work on our new trail. They have given enough cash for a good sized bridge, helped in our grant effort that got us our trail building machine and have promised labor when the day comes. 

Our plan with the SK650 is to get a few of the hardcore trained up so that we can do the serious earth moving. The plan for the next blanket work day would be to get the unskilled, tenuosly (sp?) engaged volunteers into the easier finishing work. One would think that would go further to encourage a sense of ownership than flogging away at 10 yards of bench cut for an entire Saturday. 

We used to do the Pay Dirt thing in our state race series and it worked really well. I don't know why we couldn't reinstitute that.


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

*Ya Know...*

You might be realistically better off with your core group of 20. I takes a lot of energy to utilize a large group of people. That kind of energy will build a lot of trail, and with a lot less stress. Six good people can accomplish a lot of work, it's "the ones who can't not build trail" you want.

Just an alt viewpoint from an tired old mule.


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## indytrekracer (Feb 13, 2004)

Having a Ditch Witch SK650 was a big thing to leave out of the original post. We have had great luck with hybrid construction. We went a different path and hired a professional trail builder with equipment, but as long as you end up with someone driving who knows how to build trails and run equipment, you should be good. When we had a big work day planned we would have the pros rough cut 1/2 mile or more of trail. Then on the big work days we have the hard core volunteers do rock projects and the newbies do finish work on the machine built stuff. Since the machine built the tread, we aren't counting on more casual volunteers to determine the trail location. And they and quickly finish a long section of trail. We had weekends were volunteers would have 1/2 mile more trail to ride at the end of the weekend. That got them excited and ready to come back again.

Other random thoughts

1) While only a certain percentage will volunteer, we still the non volunteering riders to be on our side. You never know when one of those too busy to help riders is a friend, relative, or neighbor of a park official or politician you need on your side

2) Not all those willing to help will be hard core trail workers. Having trail work coordinators, work session cooks, kid clinic organizers, people to go to meetings, etc... are all important. Also, there may be folks willing to write big check that may not have time to volunteer (and you will need $$$ to keep the SK650 running).

3) There are lots of ways people can volunteer and other worthy causes out there. Some one may put in a lot volunteer time with some other worthy cause and then hit the trails. Don't assume that some one you see riding but not trail building isn't giving back to the community is some way. There are other 501 (c) (3) organizations out there that can help you, so don't burn any bridges.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

bsieb said:


> You might be realistically better off with your core group of 20. I takes a lot of energy to utilize a large group of people. That kind of energy will build a lot of trail, and with a lot less stress. Six good people can accomplish a lot of work, it's "the ones who can't not build trail" you want.
> 
> Just an alt viewpoint from an tired old mule.


Can't dispute your viewpoint on this really.

I'm coming from a point where we were lucky to have more than 3 people show up on an average work day. I could get miles of trail built with 20 workers.

We're lucky to have had good turnout on Trails Day for about 3 years running. I can get a lot done with 30-50 people. But it takes some experienced workers to help supervise, and having all the layout work done ahead, plus cutting logs ahead.

I focus on clearing brush out of the trail corridor. Break the workers into teams, each with an experienced person. It works best with groups of 5 or fewer, more than that and there will be people watching others work. March everyone down the trail, and drop a group every 50-100 yards. Make sure the leader understands which side of the flags to cut on, and that he is to move his team 50-100 yards from the end of the line whenever his team gets to the place the next team started.

At the start when you are instructing every one how to use the tools, take an extra moment and state that saws are for cutting branches, saplings on the tread get uprooted with the long tools. Otherwise you end up with a bunch of tire-piercing stubs in your trail.

It's hard to get a larger group to cut bench properly. It's hard work and the tendency is to make it too narrow, or improperly sloped because it's easier to do. It takes a critical eye to see immediately that benching is done wrong.

Rock work, for some reason, always seems to find a willing soul. There's something about moving big rocks that excites people. Maybe we're all Druids? I'm certainly not immune to it.

Walt


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## spicewookie (Jun 3, 2008)

this is kind of turning into "how to manage the labor you DO get," so i'll add that having everyone walk the ENTIRE section they'll be working on, prior to starting, will give them a clear goal and a sense of pace. i made the mistake of skipping this step once and went to check on a group an hour into the work and they had done some beautiful grooming, but hadn't covered 1/10th of the ground i thought they should have. now, i show them an example piece, finished to the desired degree, and then show them their section. lesson learned.:madman:


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## Fullrange Drew (May 13, 2004)

Food: Drinks (non alc), Chockies, Fruit and Pizza supply for working bee attendees.

Schwag: Door prizes. All attendees get a number and that working bees stash of schwag donated by local bike shops (tyres, pumps, multi tools, lube etc) get raffled off in the afternoon.

Big lead time for the working bee: 
Try for at the very minimum a month in advance, 6 weeks is better. Email out to every club member at least twice, spaced a fortnight apart. If you have an email list from big race events you run where more than just the club guys show up, use that list as well. If people enjoy riding your trails, they may be willing to help out even if they aren't club locals.

As far as management goes, don't try and run everyone in one group, split into groups of 4 to 6 folks, each with one team leader from your trails team. Have a clear written plan, (even better with pics) about what the problem is, how you intend to address it. Each time might have 5 different work sheets. Doesn't matter if they only get through 3 of the 5 on the day, 2 or 3 properly completed pieces of trail repair beats 5 half baked ones any day.

A trunout of 20 on a trail day is pretty good as far as our club is concerned and we're the largest club in Australia.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

*A couple more suggestions*

Find some natural leaders in the mountain bike community, it helps if they are young, popular and attractive, and get them to personally recruit other mountain bikers. It helps if these leaders are also trail ride organizers. Then going on a trail project is just one more fun event for mountain bikers. It also helps if these leaders are the ones posting these events on the local forums.

The most valuable asset is a trail volunteer because of their rareness in the general outdoor recreation population. If they show up for an event they have already pre-qualified themselves as a trail volunteer. Make sure these first timers have a great first experience. We lose a lot of volunteers due to their first impressions. Think of it as a first date, if they get a back impression, there won't be a second chance.

Have a highly organized event. Feeling like your precious Saturday was wasted time is a sure enthusiasm killer.

Identify new volunteers, enthusiastically welcome them and get them paired up with someone experienced. The hardest worker is often not the best mentor. They new volunteer needs someone who will both educate and lead them. They are already feeling a bit lost and overwhelmed. Rotate tasks with them so they can try different things and don't get overly sore.

Include the new volunteers in the social activites. Invite them to sit with the group at lunch. Get them a beer and make them feel included. Drinking a beer by yourself while everyone else to catching up with their friends isn't the kind of fun that gets someone to come back.

We priorizie the volunteer experience over everything else but safety. This means all of the attention focused on the new volunteers may result in getting a bit less trail built during that one event but the recruiting of new volunteers will get more trail built over the long run.


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## woodway (Dec 27, 2005)

Another idea to add to the great ones already posted.

Use forums (like MTBR or other local forums) to continually publicize your trail project. I post up projects to build awareness and excitement. During work parties, I take lot's of photos and post them up - shows progress, gives volunteers recognition, and builds excitement. People love to see themselves in photos doing trailwork!

I've had many people show up for work parties saying "I saw the thread and photos on MTBR and wanted to come check it out for myself". Here is a recent example thread in the Washington forum:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=578618


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## zachi (Jul 25, 2006)

20 committed core members!!!

We use a excavator (due to steep terrain) and a Ditchwitch bladed walkbehind and two of us can Brush, rough cut, grade and rake 500-1500ft per day. A small core group that is part of a cool team, with their own gear and look can attract other fanatics.

For us, development of a core group has been way more effective than all the work that goes into vollunteer days where you spend a lot of energy for a few hours of unfocused work that has to be fixed sometimes.

The benifit of the latter is that it is outreach.

Good luck,

z


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

This has all been good feedback. It looks like we are moving along in the same vein as much of the rest of you. Wish us luck on getting trained in the SK650!


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## highdelll (Oct 3, 2008)

> How to bring riders into trail building


-White shirt, black pants and tie.
-Go door to door on your bicycle w/ a partner.
-Ask them if they've heard the good news about trail building.


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

Can you get a Gideon's Bible with an anodized cover?


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## buryurfear14 (Mar 6, 2009)

highdelll said:


> -White shirt, black pants and tie.
> -Go door to door on your bicycle w/ a partner.
> -Ask them if they've heard the good news about trail building.


lolol, have you brought trail building into YOUR life?

two words, free beer. odouls for the ones operating heavy equipment. oh and wings and pizza too. I'd be there fur surrre


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## buryurfear14 (Mar 6, 2009)

oh, and members only jackets, everyone loves the 80's


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2010)

We have had a lot of luck teaming up with local volunteer organizations. The Devou Park trail project is located just over the river from of Cincinnati, OH in Covington, KY. There are a lot of large volunteer organizations in the area. We have a local core group of what I would consider expert trail builders that number about 15. We team up with one of the volunteer organizations and they bring in 100+ people and all the food and drinks. We supply the expert trail builders to lead the groups. We have the volunteer groups concentrate on clearing, rock moving and digging in large bench cut areas. We skip delicate areas and we set creek crossings and critical turns prior to the trail day. We have an 80% rule. If the volunteers can get the trail 80% complete we feel we have done a good job leading. The core group of expert builders will come back over the next few weeks and finish and buff it to completion. The first volunteer group came with $10,000.00 to buy all the tools we would need for the big day as well as any amenities. It was awesome!! We put in a mile long climb within two big trail days to about 80% completion. We now we have a ton of tools to support more big days. We have about four large trail days a year. We have our monthly trail days that number about 18 people on average where we work on the delicate areas and finishing. Then four times a year we have 100+ days. The big days are a lot of work for the lead on the project, but they are worth it, both for trail installation and publicity.

Chad


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## schaarschmidt (Aug 20, 2007)

I agree with a previous poster, you are lucky if you get 10% of your membership to a single work day. So if you want to increase the number of trail workers, increase the number of members in your organization. It is MUCH easier to get a new member involved in trail work than someone who has been around for 5 years and has never attended a trail day. 

This is because the new members are more excited and will attend events because they want to be a part of something. So be sure to go out of your way to make a new member feel welcome when they attend trail days. When they leave be sure to thank them, even if they have to leave after only an hour. Assign new trail workers to someone to work with that has the skills and patiences to teach them, and not get frustrated.


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## iWiLRiDe (Apr 17, 2006)

I think awareness is absolutely crucial in building a team of inviduals we want to actually make change.

A lot of people can hear about building trails, but if nobody can agree to come together then you will have hit and miss participation.

Reaching out to other user groups is a great way to get the numbers up as long as they are on the same page as you.


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

*First Trial Day*

I can give an outside perspective. I am a long time rider and I recently participated in my first build day. I have cleared a bunch of trail in the past but I had never built trail.

I think the fact that there is a lot of trail building stoke helped push me into action. It was the Washington State forum and Evergreen MBA that really got me to think about taking a more active role. This is a bit ironic in that I actually live and ride in Oregon. They do a very good job of promoting their efforts and made it look like something that would be fun.

It ended up being really rewarding. I worked on a section of trail that I ride a fair bit and really like. We were mostly rebuilding stuff and it seemed like we got a lot done. That section is going to be sweet and I cant wait to ride it.

I think I just needed to find out what I was missing. I will be back.


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## tesla. (Jan 25, 2007)

1 - Communication (and advertising)

I rode for years at my local trails as an occasional/weekend rider before I realized that someone (or a group) actually built and maintained the trails. I checked out the kiosk on a regular basis, but the only thing posted was a small sign (well worn and tattered) about maintenance on the third Saturday of the month. It was not until I fell in with a social group of riders at a new set of trails that I actually started participating in maintenance and trail building.

Advertising is key. Work with the local shops to place a flier about the club/group/organization in the info kit given out with every mountain bike they sell. Replace worn signs. If it looks old, then it is (assumed to be) out of date and will be ignored. 

2 - Don't piss off your volunteers (i.e. listen to them every once in a while)

One of my greatest frustrations with the local club is that there is a core group of people who do not understand outside ideas. They will take the time listen, which makes new members feel all warm and fuzzy, and then they will go and do what they have always done. I am not saying that every new idea is a good idea. There are good ideas, bad ideas, and been there done that ideas, but ignoring all ideas and not giving up and shuffling responsibilities between members/leadership is a sure way to kill the enthusiasm.

I tried for years to convince the person who ran the club fund raising race that charging an entry fee was a bad idea from both a 501c3 perspective and because events with an entry fee were excluded from the clubs insurance policy. Both issues could be sidestepped simply by asking for a donation instead of charging an entry fee. This conversation went on for several years before I washed my hands of the club. I found out recently, several years later, that this had finally come to a head, and the solution was, wait for it, asking for a donation instead of charging an entry fee. 

3 - Let your volunteers actually do something (and take responsibility if they want it)

What finally got to me with the race situation was that other people got it. But the one person who ran the race, printed the fliers, managed advertising, and was an unstoppable force on the club forum did not. I did not have the time, and finally lost the incentive to try and compete with this one personality for what should be a common goal to enhance the club and cycling opportunities in the area. 

The same thing ruined trail building for me. There were several personalities that lived for trail building, and I understand that trail building was their release from the stresses of life. Unfortunately, they do not understand sustainable trail building, and build every piece of trail for the lowest common denominator. They will listen to other ideas, and even ask for input, but before those ideas can be implemented, and other eyes used to check the trail design, they have already gone out, cleared the corridor, and started benching. Even if you want to get out there and take the initiative to put the trails in correctly, the average working Joe can not compete with retirees and single school teachers with long holidays and summers off. 

4 - Try to remember what is was like when you started (and keep it fun)

Everyone has to start somewhere. Take a minute and remember what it was like when you started to get involved. Why were you interested? What motivated you? I bet it was different than what motivates you now. 

Don't forget to have fun. If you schedule a trail day from 9 to noon, don't work your volunteers past noon, or you will burn them out. Get the group together for a ride once in a while. And don't be the a** who heckles the person who rides through your work day (unless you know them).


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

tesla. said:


> 2 - Don't piss off your volunteers (i.e. listen to them every once in a while)
> 
> One of my greatest frustrations with the local club is that there is a core group of people who do not understand outside ideas. They will take the time listen, which makes new members feel all warm and fuzzy, and then they will go and do what they have always done. I am not saying that every new idea is a good idea. There are good ideas, bad ideas, and been there done that ideas, but ignoring all ideas and not giving up and shuffling responsibilities between members/leadership is a sure way to kill the enthusiasm.
> 
> ...


You have some great points. These resonate with me.

I'm a trail steward/manager. I'd like to have more people show up for work days. However:

-Quite a few people don't want to be there more than one or two days. That's fine, all I ask is a single work day from everyone who can do so.

-How do I accommodate people such as yourself who want to be involved more? It gets complicated fast!

Having people in control of trail layout who won't take the time to do the job right is just wrong. My situation is a little different. I work hard to build to IMBA standards-and more. I own and use an clinometer. I also spend time getting familiar with the overall lay of the land with an emphasis on understanding the surface water flow.

I've had to evolve my own methods over several years. Frankly, a lot of it is just hiking around in the woods, looking at things. Since I'm partly self-trained, I don't have a lot of trade vocabulary to impress people with. It's difficult to work with someone else to do trail layout. It's difficult to find someone who has the time and patience to build an understanding of the whole picture.

I've had several unfortunate disputes with people who had nothing but the best intentions. My experience is that people don't really want to hear why their ideas aren't acceptable to me. I'm human too. If you accuse me of bad faith instead of answering my criticism, my reaction is going to be poor.

How does this help your situation? My perspective is that most people don't have the time to do the job right. I'd be thrilled (OK, slightly threatened too) to have someone ask to walk through an area with me (or on their own!) and try to do a better layout. But they'd have to show me that they have an understanding of how their improvement works with the rest of the trail, and how it fits in with the lay of the land. Making a change to improve one place that makes another worse won't fly.

Building to the lowest common denominator: I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't. At this point, statements that involve "Your trail is too hard/too easy" go in one ear and out the other. The thing that makes sense to me is to build for sustainability. For better or worse, the park I work in has lots of exposed rock, so the trail turns out rugged whether I want it to or not.

Personally, I love riding over big rocks, but hate the constant pounding of smaller rocks. So I've spent many hours prying smaller rocks and filling holes. Tight and twisty is OK up to a point, but I like being able to carry a little momentum, so my turns have gotten wider. Steep hills are best in moderation: I'd rather not try to maintain them, so I'm looking for ways to route the trail across the face of a hill.

Referring to the idea of donations vs. entry fees. If we'd done that, our club would have $0. Sorry, but relying on people to be generous hasn't worked for us. Your situation may be different.

Hope you can find a way to get involved. Any way you can head up a project? One idea: if their layout work is as bad as you describe, there are sections of trail eroding away. Personally, I'd be thrilled if someone offered to do a reroute for me. It would be completely reasonable for you to do the layout IMO, but expect to have it critiqued.

Walt


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## k2biker (Jan 13, 2004)

Hey Grant, 
Where's the new trail gonna be? (you can PM me if you want so as to keep folks from poaching it). I know Macon -- went to FPD and my folks live in Lake Wildwood.

I've heard you guys were having some issues with OMBA and I feel your pain. I'm trying to revive the sinking ship that was the Atlanta chapter -- where SORBA started. One thing that is already helping us is that we have an entirely new board of directors with fresh ideas and energy. I'm restructuring how we address our large geographic region by following the model the Tarheel Trailblazers uses -- clubs and teams have to get involved and take ownership. By bringing in the Southern Crescent Cycling folks, WE can still maintain the trials and get work accomplished on the southside and not exhaust our resources from intown or the northside. Likewise, I had a very good conversation with come Conyers folks on Friday (while en route to look at 150 ac. where Henry Cty wants to put MTB trails). They've been feeling left out and we talked about how they can be involved.

Through the work at Sope Creek last year, we've built a good relationship with the NPS, REI, trail runners and some other groups with a large volunteer base and that's going to be our key this year too. Unfortunately, Macon doesn't have an REI but you do have Boy Scouts -- they are ALWAYS looking for service projects and trail projects are primo to a Scout (I know, I'm an Eagle Scout). Go to or call the Scout office (used to be on Pio Nono Ave) and talk with the program director. Tell him / her what you have and that you'd like to get information out to the troops on a regular basis OR just partner with a Scout troop that's closest to the trail system -- they can partner with other troops and help get the general public involved.

I want to read through the previous posts closer -- I hope there's some good fodder in there that we can use for the ATL chapter too.

Drop me an email or call if you want to talk. Oh, you know we're (ATL chapter) are leading the Dauset work / play weekend coming up on Feb 26-28 right? Let your folks know -- we need everyone to help and we have lots of play time planned too! Details are on our website www.sorbaatlanta.org.

Cheers and good luck!


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## sambs827 (Dec 8, 2008)

Ok, forgive me if this one has been mentioned above, but....

COLLEGE STUDENTS!!! Sure, alot of college students spend Saturday afternoon recovering from Friday night, and Sunday afternoon preparing for Monday morning, but in my town the student riders do the most trailwork. We rake/blow leaves in the fall, clear fallen trees in the winter and spring, reroute and create new trail. Also, tell them that their hours can be marked as community service (which you need to graduate in some major programs). Wow! Community service for building your own playgournd! Neat-O! 

Us young folks certainly do like recognition too (yes, we're photo whores on trail day) and love thinking of various option features that an older, more conservative eye might miss out. As mentioned in previous posts, getting to name a specific trail or section is a big bonus. Almost every time we do trailwork we then either proceed to ride it, or go to the dining hall together or to someone's house for burgers or pasta.


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## bweide (Dec 27, 2004)

I have always been struck by the strength of personalities and politics within volunteer organizations. I have seen volunteer leaders almost come to blows and those were leaders in the same organization. It's worse between organizations because each organization attracts the people that best fit with their agenda. 

A person doesn't volunteer for something they aren't passionate about and they don't become a leader unless they are doubly passionate. It's like the old Dave Barry quote "There is fine line between a hobby and a mental illness". People who become volunteer leaders are often awfully close to that line. 

So how do you work with these people for whom there is only one right way? It just takes lots of time to change their opinions and direction. They want to do the right thing, they are just awfully stubborn and tunnel-visioned. So you keep working at changing their minds a little bit at a time. Unfortunately, often times when you finally succeed in changing their minds they pendulum to the opposite extreme. 

You will encounter similiar problems with new volunteers. They consider themselves an expert and won't take direction. This is especially true of retired guys to spent years doing trail work in another part of the country. You then have to make a decision. Will this person become an asset if you can get them under control? If so, work with them a bit at a time to bring them around. You may have to tolerate some negative behaviors for awhile until they start to come around.

Sometimes you will encounter a leader or new volunteer who is truely destructive to the trails and/or the organization. They cannot be led or taught to do things differently. In those cases build a consensus amounst the other members and then force them out of the organization.


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## sanjuro (Sep 29, 2004)

Beer and partying.

It was easy to get me to do lots of work: I like it. But if you make it super fun for noobs, with the emphasis on the party rather than the work, you might one or two of them back.

I'm not saying spend 10 minutes digging and 5 hours drinking. But if you were split the time equally, you might convince the casual to come back for more work.


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## ridingthebuff (Jul 9, 2009)

Something about a ton and a half "tool" sucks the spirit out of the sport. Another thing is to rid your group of know it all D-bag control freaks who turn people off from volunteering their time [some IMBA cardcarriers] and have fun [beer, food, strippers].


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

ridingthebuff said:


> Something about a ton and a half "tool" sucks the spirit out of the sport. Another thing is to rid your group of know it all D-bag control freaks who turn people off from volunteering their time [some IMBA cardcarriers] and have fun [beer, food, strippers].


Are you referring to the use of machinery like a Ditch Witch or the like?

Dunno what to say. I'd be fine with all hand labor if we had the turnout. As it is I have the next 5-8 years of my free time planned to get all the new trail + reroutes built that need doing.

It's possible I'm one of the D-bags you're referring to. I hate to crush initiative, but I hate to do bad work even worse.

I'm all in favor of beer and food and fun.

Walt


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## thefriar (Jan 23, 2008)

I'm talking about organized TM here...

I think one of the critical things you encounter with volunteer organizations is that they're not organized. Typically the structure and process to be effective consistently aren't there, part of it is not knowing how many volunteers you'll have or who will be active this year and next. If you build the organization to be strong and take a slightly more "corporate" approach by really delinieating roles and responsibility, people know what to expect and that's a huge comfort blanket for many.

I think some organizations are like trying to run with your shoe laces tied because there's constant attempts to collaborate and build consensus when sometimes a more direct approach is needed. If you have a defacto trail boss who is elected every year by the org or other volunteers, you respect that person's authority. But you have checks and balances, the Chairman/Prez can say no to a project, or the Land Manager liason can veto any projects they think will hold up or damage a building good relationships. If its just one individual out there building trail and calling all the shots and managing the relationships its tough to really build the trust of your regular volunteers.

If your regular volunteers know that shennanigans will be handled appropriately, work will be productive and there will be some immediate results/gratification you're almost there. Pizza and beer helps too. However they need to know they can trust the leaders, if that trust is there, then other volunteers know it and will jibe in, otherwise why should they listen if they know best and others don't listen as well? Its always easier to work for someone you trust, b/c if you trust them, you likely respect them, and they likely respect you... just takes some time to get things set up so the trust is there, once its there you'll build dedicated volunteers...

The other thing some TM efforts and some of Trail Gnomes fail at being effective leaders, some people know their TM and Building back and forth. They'll sometimes feel that a dissenting opinion or suggested alternative is an opinion bound for failure and they'll dismiss it. When its dismissed without a thoughtful debate that leader will lose some respect, as well as trust in and credibility with their leadership. If the idea is heard out and given a genuine chance, and the leader always acknowledges there may be a better way, you'll find building thetrust of the group easier. Just like some folks aren't big air huckers and others aren't xc racers, but are great riders none the less, not everyone is going to be an effective leader.


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## Moto Rider (Dec 30, 2006)

Most everything has been covered already… So I just reiterate here.

Keep it simple, Keep it fun. The beer and cookout thing works and a group ride after also helps. However, also keep reminding them that what their doing is important because without their help. There would be no trails for them to ride on.


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

Great ideas.



tesla. said:


> 1 - Communication (and advertising)
> 
> I rode for years at my local trails as an occasional/weekend rider before I realized that someone (or a group) actually built and maintained the trails. I checked out the kiosk on a regular basis, but the only thing posted was a small sign (well worn and tattered) about maintenance on the third Saturday of the month. It was not until I fell in with a social group of riders at a new set of trails that I actually started participating in maintenance and trail building.
> 
> ...


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## AlloyNipples (Jan 12, 2004)

All good ideas in this thread, well most of them anyway. Will you be at the SORBA BOD meeting at the NOC/Tsali this weekend? I'm sure this very subject will be addressed and makes for a good round table discussion.


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## GrantB (Jan 10, 2004)

I won't be at the meeting, but our club president and his wife will be. The Macon, GA SORBA pres.

This is a related topic that came up yesterday....

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6707348#post6707348


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## Jack Burns (Nov 18, 2005)

*Regular Schedules*

Hi,

I did read in the thread about having regular trail days. That has worked really well for us. We do one each 2nd Saturday, and so people sometimes just show up knowing that it will be happening. Luckily we always meet at the same trail head (most of the time).

I did get reminded that posting some good signage about trail work at trail heads is a good idea. I am sure all of ours are faded or gone now. I will do something this week as peak riding time is hitting now.

Thanks for all the good ideas though.

While the old volunteers are the best at getting things done, we've always got to attract new volunteers to keep the ranks up, and develop your replacement crew leaders.

-Paul


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## bsieb (Aug 23, 2003)

*Food and beer worked great...*

had to order a six pack of mccloeds and another trail shovel. :thumbsup:

Also special patches only for trail crew members, the iron on kind this time. Look good on anything from Carharts to Cabeza Del Norte.


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## Visicypher (Aug 5, 2004)

*Love the Vid*

Love the vid. Props to the operators.



zachi said:


> 20 committed core members!!!
> 
> We use a excavator (due to steep terrain) and a Ditchwitch bladed walkbehind and two of us can Brush, rough cut, grade and rake 500-1500ft per day. A small core group that is part of a cool team, with their own gear and look can attract other fanatics.
> 
> ...


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