# Irreplaceable



## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

> *Why Wilderness? It's Irreplaceable*
> 
> Posted By _Franz Camenzind_ On October 2, 2018
> 
> ...


...


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

.....


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

tungsten!!!


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## leaguerider (Sep 6, 2010)

Seems like an arbitrary distinction to exculde bikes and inculde kayaks and wheelchairs. It might just as well to say that we are going to exculde round things but allow square things becasue "reasons". 

If this argument was honest we would only allow people to enter wildness naked on the back of a bear. No nylon, gortex or flashlighs will be allowed.

I'm going to look for my bear now....


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

I love tacos


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

"First, wilderness designation is the best land protection law our nation has. As one wildlands advocate stated decades ago: “Wilderness is nature in its original condition.” Wilderness cannot be manufactured; it can only be protected. "

That's why there's a Wilderness area in California that's an old farm, including asphalt roads. Because that's original condition right? There's so much wrong with this, I'm going to stop picking at it after three lines because I actually have to go build trail today.


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## roughster (Dec 18, 2017)

tungsten said:


> Nor is wilderness a place to be raced through on mountain bikes.







I along with thousands of riders completely disagree with you (and by "you" I mean the author of the quoted portion).


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## ACree (Sep 8, 2004)

Trails open to MTB use in Wilderness quality alpine settings are also irreplaceable.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

tungsten has to be M. Vandeman.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

So.......

Mountain bikes = bad
Resource Extraction = bad
Mountain bikes = resource extraction = bad
Hiking = good
Horses = good
Invention of the wheel = bad
Racing through the wilderness on a bike = bad
Meandering through the wilderness on a bike = Just as bad
Racing through the wilderness on a horse = good
Tire tracks on singletrack = bad
Posthole deep hoofprints on singletrack = good
Being seen by wildflife with a bike = bad
Shooting same wildlife with a rifle = good
Supporting local economy through exploiting wilderness for certain types of recreation while excluding others = good.

That about sum it up?


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## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

> It's not complicated: without vast, connected areas of truly wild country where all the fatally destructive apparatus of human organization is absent, the bear and all top predators will be swiftly driven to extinction.


https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/10/03/the-canary-in-our-coal-mine/print/


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

tungsten, 

You are welcome to enjoy Wilderness... you just need to stay home and enjoy reading books and magazines about it, or watch some youtube videos of what humans used to do in Wilderness. Things that connected them to the land and the protection of that land. Because clearly, you envision a world where humans stay out of Wilderness.


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## twd953 (Aug 21, 2008)

tungsten said:


> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/10/03/the-canary-in-our-coal-mine/print/


Well, as long as we are posting links to things totally unrelated to mountain bikes in wilderness, here is a fascinating article on Jackalopes in Wyoming.

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/wy-jackalope/

Myth or reality? You decide!


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## Torgy (Mar 8, 2016)

And now for the silly reputation thing. I'm with you Tungsten.


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

History doesn't lie...


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## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Hmm, the wilderness act does not ban bikes, they were allowed before 1984 until a different interpretation took place. The whole idea behind wilderness was exploration, under ones own power. The bike packing bike would be a perfect example. Mechanical transport referred to carts. So mechanical transport, like oar locks, ski bindings, and spring tip hiking poles should not be allowed either. But horses that grind the crap out of trails and spread horse **** everywhere is fine? I'm going to quote Bill ( shakespeare) " First kill all the lawyers" Common sense out the window. And what reasonable people would think. Yikes. 
Mike? Reformed or back at your old ways? Same wording, guessing no.


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## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

> In recent years it has become fashionable for conservationists to substitute and promote other land classification in place of wilderness designation. Wilderness is "passé" so we are told, even though it is the "gold standard" for land protection.
> 
> In a recent white paper, The Wilderness Society outlined some of these alternatives such as National Recreation Area, Conservation Management Area, Special Management Area (Newberry Crater), National Scenic Area, Wildlife Management Area, and other titles.
> 
> ...


https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/11/14/alternatives-to-wilderness/


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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

You missed a few:

**** in trail= good
Spreading noxious weeds=good
Grazing cattle in Wilderness=good
Spreading giardia in Wilderness=quit your whining and get a filter.
Sitting on your fat ass riding into Wilderness on horse=good
Working your ass off riding your bike into Wilderness=bad


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## Fattirewilly (Dec 10, 2001)

Cotharyus said:


> That's why there's a Wilderness area in California that's an old farm, including asphalt roads. Because that's original condition right?


Original and untrampled by man example sham #2: Dolly Sods Wilderness - Logged in early 1900's, former bombing and artillary range during WWII, Jeep trails/old roads still visible on Google Earth.


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## GregB406 (Dec 19, 2005)

You must be referring to the 2 WSA's in the Bitterroot National Forest. These areas have adequate trail systems already. In fact just trying to keep the trails open is a full time summer job, additional trails would make things more difficult. Interestingly the 1977 Montana Wilderness Study Act allowed for off road vehicle use to continue, something that Bitterroot National Forest managers seem to have forgotten. For more detailed legal information check out Montana Mountain Bike Alliance and Sustainable Trails Coalition on Facebook to read the submitted comment letters from those organizations.


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## veloborealis (Oct 25, 2009)

Cotharyus said:


> "First, wilderness designation is the best land protection law our nation has. As one wildlands advocate stated decades ago: "Wilderness is nature in its original condition." Wilderness cannot be manufactured; it can only be protected. "
> 
> That's why there's a Wilderness area in California that's an old farm, including asphalt roads. Because that's original condition right? There's so much wrong with this, I'm going to stop picking at it after three lines because I actually have to go build trail today.


May I ask which wilderness area in California are you referring to?


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

veloborealis said:


> May I ask which wilderness area in California are you referring to?


I'll guess its the Phillip Burton Wilderness in Point Reyes National Seashore.


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## figofspee (Jul 19, 2018)

twd953 said:


> Well, as long as we are posting links to things totally unrelated to mountain bikes in wilderness, here is a fascinating article on Jackalopes in Wyoming.
> 
> https://www.legendsofamerica.com/wy-jackalope/
> 
> Myth or reality? You decide!


Jackalopes exist, I had one stumble upon my campsite in South eastern Utah.


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

veloborealis said:


> May I ask which wilderness area in California are you referring to?


You can. And my answer is, off the top of my head I don't remember. But if you MUST know, you can go back and listen to the Trail Cast episode in which I interviewed David Simon from the STC board. He's the one that brings up that particular wilderness area.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

tungsten said:


> https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/11/14/alternatives-to-wilderness/


Do you maybe want to try typing something, maybe your own thoughts or?


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## tungsten (Apr 7, 2006)

Empty_Beer said:


> I'll guess its the Phillip Burton Wilderness in Point Reyes National Seashore.


Man, it's about time they kick those dairy farmers right out of there.
The dairy industry is actually advocating for the removal of elk reintroduced to the park decades ago.


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