# Pre -War Mercury project.



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I found this one today and I believe I may have bitten off more than I can handle. The frame is solid with no internal rust. The surface was media blasted at some point and has light surface rust but no pitting or flaking. It comes right off with steel wool. The seller believes it is a 38 or 39 but the stamp on the bottom bracket says 35. It is in need of alot of help but it is a cool frame that shouldn't be rusting away in some back yard. My intent is to do a retro-mod or a clunken-stein. Or maybe something like this :https://www.clunkers.net/scott41dx/scooterdx.html
Is this frame worth the effort?


----------



## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

looks good to me...nice flowing lines.


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Looks cool. Eclipse manufacturing = Morrow as I'm sure the brake arm told you. Probably orig to that bike. I have no idea if Morrow hubs were considered good for klunkers or not. The rest of the parts are a real mish mash. Is that a New Departure black out front hub?


You could have a framebuilder sink some brass into the drop out joints, and the cs/bb joints and be better off for it.. probably not a big deal.

-Schmitty-


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Morrow hubs are THE coaster hub to use if you go that route. It has the largest swept area of all the coasters of the era, and was the one sought the most during that time. Think about the MDC from the south bay, Russ McMahon et al. The club was named after it (Morrow Dirt Club). 

Your frame is very similar to a '39 DX Schwinn in appearance, with straight down tube and twin curved top tubes on different arcs.

I approve of your inspiration for a bike to build!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

scooderdude said:


> Morrow hubs are THE coaster hub to use if you go that route. It has the largest swept area of all the coasters of the era, and was the one sought the most during that time. Think about the MDC from the south bay, Russ McMahon et al. The club was named after it (Morrow Dirt Club).
> 
> Your frame is very similar to a '39 DX Schwinn in appearance, with straight down tube and twin curved top tubes on different arcs.
> 
> I approve of your inspiration for a bike to build!


I thought you would approve. I have been admiring that bike for a while. As for the hub, it works and is in good shape so I would like to use it. I don't really want to hang gears off the bike. I am thinking of having the rear wheel built and doing a front to match with either a drum brake or if I decide to do a modern fork a disk. I think the idea of having some brass sunk in near the dropouts and the BB is a good idea to complete the overall smoothness of the bike. In its original incarnation none of those areas would have been visible. I will take it to a builder to make sure it is safe. Any ideas on who could look at her here in San Diego? Should I take it to Sky at velocult? Here are some more pics of what it would have looked like way back in the day.

















Murray Ohio Manufacturing Company was founded in 1919 to make fenders, gas tanks, and other automobile parts.[1] The company was founded in Cleveland, Ohio, and the factory was organized by the UAW, AFL-CIO. In the mid-1930s, the company began production of bicycles, mostly for the youth market. Other products included pedal cars and electric fans. Until 1939, Murray manufactured all of its products for branding and sale by other manufacturers, especially Sears, Roebuck & Co.

In 1939, Murray introduced its World's Fair Mercury bicycle at the New York World's Fair. Styled by the industrial artist and designer, Viktor Schreckengost, the streamlined machine, with an elaborate diecast metal headpiece, was finished in black, chrome, and polished aluminum, the deluxe version of the Mercury line. However, the bicycle was expensive, and was produced only in limited numbers until 1941, when war stopped consumer bicycle production.

After the war, Murray became known as a manufacturer of low-cost bicycles, and placed its own brand on some products. Since the 1930s, Murray had been producing bicycles that, while stylistically different, imitated designs by other U.S. manufacturers, including Schwinn and AMF. This occasionally brought Murray into legal conflict with competitors, as when Schwinn filed against Murray for duplicating a Schwinn knurling and machining process on its rims.[2]


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Apparently bike manufacturer competition was serious biz, what with [process] patent lawsuits and all.

I'd bypass any sort of suspension fork. IMHO it would detract from it's look and the handling would suffer. If your current fork is forged, I'd use it, or find a Cook Bros. or Tange TX-1200 cruiser fork. You may want/need to lurk on a few of the BMX forums for leads; that's what I did to find the Tange on my bike. Those forks are out there, but it'll take some patuience and persistence.

I think Sky would be a good resource for local builders who could do the brazing job for you. You might also be able to get a BMX-style fork made to the proper a-c and offset to mimic the Cook or Tange.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

scooderdude said:


> Apparently bike manufacturer competition was serious biz, what with [process] patent lawsuits and all.
> 
> I'd bypass any sort of suspension fork. IMHO it would detract from it's look and the handling would suffer. If your current fork is forged, I'd use it, or find a Cook Bros. or Tange TX-1200 cruiser fork. You may want/need to lurk on a few of the BMX forums for leads; that's what I did to find the Tange on my bike. Those forks are out there, but it'll take some patuience and persistence.
> 
> I think Sky would be a good resource for local builders who could do the brazing job for you. You might also be able to get a BMX-style fork made to the proper a-c and offset to mimic the Cook or Tange.


 Thanks for the info. The fork is forged and very heavy. It looks like you could drop a bomb on it as does the rest of the frame. I think you are right, I should use it. Schmitty it is a new departure hub. I took the Morrow hub apart and cleaned it. It is in outstanding condition. The bearings are perfect and the little bit of rust on the cover cleaned right off and it shined up like new. This one is going to keep me occupied for a long time but I am very exited. It will have to wait until I get my Brave done but that should give me time to aquire any parts I may need.


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

scooderdude said:


> Morrow hubs are THE coaster hub to use if you go that route. It has the largest swept area of all the coasters of the era, and was the one sought the most during that time. Think about the MDC from the south bay, Russ McMahon et al. The club was named after it (Morrow Dirt Club).
> 
> Your frame is very similar to a '39 DX Schwinn in appearance, with straight down tube and twin curved top tubes on different arcs.
> 
> I approve of your inspiration for a bike to build!


Ah, cool. Always wondered about the name, but thought it may have been for Morrow Bay (actually spelled Morro now that I check). I would guess it's a good hub to get klunky with.. huge in comparison to all others. I have tons of nos morrow parts.

-Schmitty-


----------



## insanitylevel9 (Sep 23, 2009)

want


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

scooderdude said:


> I approve of your inspiration for a bike to build!


Same here! The 39 DX'ish style and the forged fork should work out nicely -- maybe even throw some truss rods on it for effect.

It took me about a year to scare up the Tange TX-1200 I just found for my second klunker build, so patience is key.

Good luck and get that Brave done so we can enjoy this build too


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> Same here! The 39 DX'ish style and the forged fork should work out nicely -- maybe even throw some truss rods on it for effect.
> 
> It took me about a year to scare up the Tange TX-1200 I just found for my second klunker build, so patience is key.
> 
> Good luck and get that Brave done so we can enjoy this build too


Yes I definitely want to do truss rods. I want to use the Morrow hub so I may have a wheelset built with Araya rims and a drum up front or I could use the New Departure hub and get the bolt on canti mounts. That and a big wide bar with a brace and some motorcycle levers. I have a really old Brooks somewhere in storage that should do nicely. I really want to keep it as simple as possible.

Any clues on where I can find a bottom bracket? Can you get bottom brackets so you can use a three piece crank? Scooter what crank would you use? Can the morrow hub be modified to use a non-skiptooth? I'm sorry but this build is uncharted territory for me. I have zero experience with these old rigs. I am going to find a local builder who can assess whether or not the frame and fork is safe and maybe put some brass around the dropouts


----------



## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

Bottom bracket adapters are available. Something like this, although that particular one is kind of spendy
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=12141&category=2634
A less expensive option
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22473&category=2634


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

sandmangts said:


> Yes I definitely want to do truss rods. I want to use the Morrow hub so I may have a wheelset built with Araya rims and a drum up front or I could use the New Departure hub and get the bolt on canti mounts. That and a big wide bar with a brace and some motorcycle levers. I have a really old Brooks somewhere in storage that should do nicely. I really want to keep it as simple as possible.
> 
> Any clues on where I can find a bottom bracket? Can you get bottom brackets so you can use a three piece crank? Scooter what crank would you use? Can the morrow hub be modified to use a non-skiptooth? I'm sorry but this build is uncharted territory for me. I have zero experience with these old rigs. I am going to find a local builder who can assess whether or not the frame and fork is safe and maybe put some brass around the dropouts


Yes on the non skip tooth.

-Schmitty-


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> Yes I definitely want to do truss rods. I want to use the Morrow hub so I may have a wheelset built with Araya rims and a drum up front or I could use the New Departure hub and get the bolt on canti mounts. That and a big wide bar with a brace and some motorcycle levers. I have a really old Brooks somewhere in storage that should do nicely. I really want to keep it as simple as possible.
> 
> Any clues on where I can find a bottom bracket? Can you get bottom brackets so you can use a three piece crank? Scooter what crank would you use? Can the morrow hub be modified to use a non-skiptooth? I'm sorry but this build is uncharted territory for me. I have zero experience with these old rigs. I am going to find a local builder who can assess whether or not the frame and fork is safe and maybe put some brass around the dropouts


If you use a square taper crank, you can use what is called a "euro conversion" bottom bracket. Any BMX or Schwinn shop can set you up. They range in price from < $10 to pricey if you go the Cook Bros. route, for example. I paid about $8 for my steel Tioga set up.

I'm using a 180 mm TA crank with square tapers, because that's what they used back in the day. It can prove a fairly spendy way to go, though, depending on how clean the cranks are, but they come up on ebay regularly. They are a bit flexy and were known to break eventaully under hard use. You can find both 1/2 and 1" (skip tooth) pitch chainrings for these and other track cranks. Otherwise, look for a nice vintage mtb crank like a M730 or Deore Shimano in 175 or 180 if you choose the 1/2" pitch route. If I were to do it again, or if my TAs ever break, that's what I would/will do,

If you choose the 1/2" pitch (what a standard chain is), it can be tough to find a 1/2" pitch rear cog for the Morrow. I lucked out and found a 1/2" cog still attached to its driver, the typical way you'll find them, so I simply swapped my 1" for the 1/2". Search ebay.

I needed a 3/16" chain for the 1/2" Morrow rear cog, though; a 1/8" chain was too narrow. The 3/16" really a small motorcycle chain. I got mine from KMC. They're cheap, and heavy.


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

wv_bob said:


> Bottom bracket adapters are available...
> A less expensive option
> https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=22473&category=2634


That's the one I used with a 68x115 Bottom Bracket... but I'm planning on a 68x118 for Klunker #2 because the crankarms come scary close to the chainstays.

The TA's are spendy, but it's hard to beat the look. Aemmer's Campy cranks look great too.

One other nice thing about the TA's is that you have a lot of options for chainring sizes. I'm running a single 36T on Klunker #1 and am planning either 30T or 27T on the Klunker #2.

I'm not sure when/if they'll become available as a stand-alone part, but Electra is making a TA Cyclotourist copy for their Ticino line of bikes... check out their website.


----------



## Guitar Ted (Jan 14, 2004)

Velo Orange will also have a house branded TA copy out soon: http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/2010/01/can-you-guess-what-these-are.html

I am watching this thread closely as I am building up a klunker myself from a '52 Schwinn DX.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks alot guys. This thread will serve as reference material once I get started on it. I have a few pairs of 730 cranks and lots of bottom brackets.


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Anyone ever see a rear hub like a Morrow, adapted to the front for a front coaster/drum brake? The gear could be romoved and some kind of lever substituted. Might could be bad azz.

-Schmitty-


----------



## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

*neat frame*

try memory lane classics for the 1/2x1/8 cog. i believe the older 'pre stripe' bendix hubs used that thread also. ordered one last year- it was no big deal for them and it cost me less than ten bucks.:thumbsup:


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> Anyone ever see a rear hub like a Morrow, adapted to the front for a front coaster/drum brake? The gear could be romoved and some kind of lever substituted. Might could be bad azz.
> 
> -Schmitty-


Seems like it could work but I noticed on my hub after I cleaned and repacked it that it takes a considerable amount of force to engage the brake and the stroke is pretty long. Not a problem when you are just backpedaling to brake but I would think a lever would be hard to pull and getting enough leverage would be tough. Not to mention this thing is heavy. A drum is probably lighter? Then again I know exactly squat about these.

I am cutting and threading the steerer for the Brave today and beginning the build. I will probably take this frame down to Velocult this weekend and start hunting for parts. I do have an Araya 7x, Nitto dual clamp quill stem, M730 cranks, Magura moto levers etc. This thing is going to be a tank. The great thing is that there are so many different variations on the Clunker theme so you can't really do it wrong. The whole point is to just use what is available and what works.


----------



## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

Schmitty said:


> Anyone ever see a rear hub like a Morrow, adapted to the front for a front coaster/drum brake? The gear could be romoved and some kind of lever substituted. Might could be bad azz.
> 
> -Schmitty-


poke around ratrodbikes.com and you'll see some interesting adaptations.


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

sandmangts said:


> Seems like it could work but I noticed on my hub after I cleaned and repacked it that it takes a considerable amount of force to engage the brake and the stroke is pretty long. Not a problem when you are just backpedaling to brake but I would think a lever would be hard to pull and getting enough leverage would be tough. Not to mention this thing is heavy. A drum is probably lighter? Then again I know exactly squat about these.
> 
> I am cutting and threading the steerer for the Brave today and beginning the build. I will probably take this frame down to Velocult this weekend and start hunting for parts. I do have an Araya 7x, Nitto dual clamp quill stem, M730 cranks, Magura moto levers etc. This thing is going to be a tank. The great thing is that there are so many different variations on the Clunker theme so you can't really do it wrong. The whole point is to just use what is available and what works.


The play is a wear/adjust issue. As for the force... it would have to be custom.. blue printed, balanced, stroked, high mod. Maybe a doubler in the cable pull, etc.

As for weight.... who cares! It's a freekin old kids bike that weighs a boatload already! Heavier the better imo.

-Schmitty-


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Schmitty said:


> The play is a wear/adjust issue. As for the force... it would have to be custom.. blue printed, balanced, stroked, high mod. Maybe a doubler in the cable pull, etc.
> 
> As for weight.... who cares! It's a freekin old kids bike that weighs a boatload already! Heavier the better imo.
> 
> -Schmitty-


You're right, my XC rider mentality needs a timeout.


----------



## biss-ness (Aug 13, 2004)

surly357 said:


> poke around ratrodbikes.com and you'll see some interesting adaptations.


http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=28
:thumbsup:


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

biss-ness said:


> http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=28
> :thumbsup:


Too bad there's no pics of the winning Colson klunker. Photobucket blows.

I dug around a bit and couldn't find anyone adapting a coaster hub to a front hub.....

-Schmitty-


----------



## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

Schmitty said:


> Too bad there's no pics of the winning Colson klunker. Photobucket blows.
> 
> I dug around a bit and couldn't find anyone adapting a coaster hub to a front hub.....
> 
> -Schmitty-


here's one project. i searched 'suicide coaster front brake' :thumbsup:

http://ratrodbikes.com/forum/viewto...81086&hilit=suicide+coaster+front+hub#p181086


----------



## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

Thats going to look sweet.

For the bottom bracket have a look at the DMR Wondercup convertor. Light, cheap and will take any regular square taper BB. As for cranks, look on ebay France- there are always a few pairs of TA cranks and they sell for less than in the US or UK. Other options would be an early Sugino Mighty or if you want a stronger option have a look for Nervar- again these can be found without too much trouble en Francais.

good luck!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Dr S said:


> Thats going to look sweet.
> 
> For the bottom bracket have a look at the DMR Wondercup convertor. Light, cheap and will take any regular square taper BB. As for cranks, look on ebay France- there are always a few pairs of TA cranks and they sell for less than in the US or UK. Other options would be an early Sugino Mighty or if you want a stronger option have a look for Nervar- again these can be found without too much trouble en Francais.
> 
> good luck!


Thanks Doc. I am going to pick up a 29 dollar 80's Trek 8000 parts bike today. I am pretty sure the cranks are TA and it has some old school moto levers and some deerhead parts. It also has those old Oakley grips so hopefully they are in good shape.


----------



## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Man, I'd love to have that frame just because of the local Ohio connection.


----------



## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

IF52 said:


> Man, I'd love to have that frame just because of the local Ohio connection.


In that case, you would also be interested in Cleveland Welding (CWC) bikes.


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Ohio was a hot bed.. many many bikes there.

-Schmitty-


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

So here is the plan. 
Stick with the morrow hub but I found a morrow inch pitch 20 tooth cog to use. How hard is it to change the cog? What chain can I use? Will a BMX chain work? I am planning on using 36 hole Pro-Class rims with the Morrow in the back and a sturmey drum up front. 

I will use a BB adaptor to run a standard square taper with M730 cranks. 
BMX clamp style pro neck II with skull skates bars, Magura moto style brake lever, Brooks saddle, oakley grips, Suntour XC II pedals and the biggest tires I can get on there.

Any help with the drivetrain questions is appreciated. I want to use the morrow but I am not sure I can pull it off with a modern crank. 

I am not sure what colors to paint it. I definately want to do a 2 color like Scooters, just not sure of the colors. Maybe I should do a photo shop challenge.


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

sandmangts said:


> Stick with the morrow hub but I found a morrow inch pitch 20 tooth cog to use. How hard is it to change the cog? What chain can I use? Will a BMX chain work?


inch-pitch = skip tooth, so I think you mean you found a standard pitch cog, right? If so, yeah a BMX chain is good. I chose a silver KMC Z-chain for <$10.





















sandmangts said:


> ... and a sturmey drum up front.


I've seen the X-FD hub on sale somewhere for $50 recently. I'm waiting for the XL-FD to come back into stock for my '39 DX build -- it's a bit bigger at 90mm vs 70mm.



sandmangts said:


> I am not sure what colors to paint it. I definately want to do a 2 color like Scooters, just not sure of the colors. Maybe I should do a photo shop challenge.


Check out my '38 C-model build if you need a link to stencils.

https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=61972


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> inch-pitch = skip tooth, so I think you mean you found a standard pitch cog, right? If so, yeah a BMX chain is good. I chose a silver KMC Z-chain for <$10.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for the reply. Again I am showing my total ignorance when it comes to this stuff. I guess I meant 1/2 inch pitch. Here is the cog I bought: https://www.budgetbicyclectr.com/morrow-20t-cog
I am wondering if it will work with a standard BMX chain and front chain ring. I like your build and thanks for the ideas!


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Sounds like a great build. I esp like the stem spec. watch out tightening the stem.. those old seamed steerers are prone to bulging.


-Schmitty-


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Humble beginnings.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Another question for the pros. The headset seems to be an unconventional size. It is not 1 inch or 1 1/8. Any ideas where I can find one that will fit? What size did the old schwinns you guys built have? I am sending it out for paint soon. Should I do a wet coat two tone kinda like Scooters or should I go for durability and just do a solid black powdercoat?


----------



## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

sandmangts said:


> Another question for the pros. The headset seems to be an unconventional size. It is not 1 inch or 1 1/8. Any ideas where I can find one that will fit? What size did the old schwinns you guys built have? I am sending it out for paint soon. Should I do a wet coat two tone kinda like Scooters or should I go for durability and just do a solid black powdercoat?


This thread might help. A lot of klunker headset info in this one.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=499842&highlight=headset+wald


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

muddybuddy said:


> This thread might help. A lot of klunker headset info in this one.
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=499842&highlight=headset+wald


Ah! I should search more. That is exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks. Now I am considering using a modern internal geared hub with a drum brake to make the bike a little more versatile. Sturmey makes a few nice ones as does Nexus. I am not sure if they will fit but I want to be able to climb on this bike.


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

The old bikes will typically use a BMX style 1" headset. The ID of the head tube is greater than on a standard 1" bike frame (32.7 vs. 30.2 mm); a regular 1" headset cup will be swimming in the head tube, hence.

Just get a 1" BMX headset and you're set. Also, be certain which base plate you'll need, too, as I suspect they'll be available in both 26.4 and 27.0 mm. Just measure your the OD of fork with some calipers where the HS race is driven on.

Check out this Sheldon Brown tech article that covers the different HS types and dimensions:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/headsets.html


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

sandmangts said:


> Ah! I should search more. That is exactly the answer I was looking for. Thanks. Now I am considering using a modern internal geared hub with a drum brake to make the bike a little more versatile. Sturmey makes a few nice ones as does Nexus. I am not sure if they will fit but I want to be able to climb on this bike.


No drum, coaster, but three speed:


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

sandmangts said:


> Now I am considering using a modern internal geared hub with a drum brake to make the bike a little more versatile. Sturmey makes a few nice ones as does Nexus. I am not sure if they will fit but I want to be able to climb on this bike.


I'm going to try a SA 8-speed on my 2nd klunker for the same reasons.

See: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81547

I'm a little nervous about durability. According to SA and others you definitely need to stop pedaling when you shift.

I'm going with a 27/23 gear ratio to start. A 25T is available for the rear if I need more torque.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

If I did it with internals again, I would go with more than three gears.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> I'm going to try a SA 8-speed on my 2nd klunker for the same reasons.
> 
> See: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=81547
> 
> ...


Having to stop pedaling would be totally against 30 years of riding habits. Not sure I could get used to that.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

The frame is going out for paint today. I am going to do a simple high gloss black with polished parts. Thanks to T. Biss I have a good headset. I think I found a nice 7 speed nexus hub with a roller brake that should work with 130mm spacing. It is for sale locally but it is like this one: http://www.bti-usa.com/public/category/HU/HUIG/all/SH30941?page=1#SH30941
Going with a drum up front, skull skates bars, pro neck 2 stem, brooks saddle, polished suntour xc-2 pedals and polished xt cranks. Check out the hub and any advice is appreciated.


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

*Nice...*

Hey Aaron,

Looking forward to seeing this one as well. I did a similar project last October and ran into the same set of issue and a few others. This was done on a budget (minus my brooks saddle fetish) and the ratrod theme played into that nicely as I tried to reuse as many original parts as possible. Fun project but I didn't document it nearly as well as I should have. Just for fun, the link to the build set is here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/yewhi/sets/72157621996574331/


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

That is bad ass. It is kinda the look I am going for.


----------



## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Very cool. How do you like the Monark fork? I'm working on one that will end up looking very similar to that, except I'm putting a motor in it.


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks to both of you. This one was a lot of fun as it was more creative than other things I've done.

As for the Monarch, obviously it is the repop fork and the quality isn't the greatest. Paint is spotty and if you remove the aluminium cap you see that the blades are only tack welded to the crown. The bearing race doesn't fit tightly so you'll have to shim it up. Also, the fork blades come from the factory with very narrow spacing. I tried to adjust that by moving the rockers to the outside and that didn't work as the bolts hit the spokes. After much thought and internal turmoil I just sucked it up and spread the fork blades enough to make it fit. That was surprisingly easy and a little scary considering how easily they bent into position. 

I only use this as a cruiser for riding with the kids and for that purpose it is fine. However, I would hesitate to put it on anything that might actually generate some speed. But hey, it looks great...

Hope that helps. Do a search on it over on Ratrod bikes.com and you'll be able to pull up a little more information.

Tim


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

The hub I want to use is 130mm spacing. It is the same hub that was used on this 1938 schwinn clunken-stein. http://www.clunkers.net/eric_rex.html
I assume schwinns rear hub spacing was the same as my Mercury's at 114mm so obviously this frame was cold set at some point. I have seen Sheldons site about cold setting the frame and I know Cyclart can do it and re-align the frame. I have decided to wait on the paint and adjust the frame first and then have it powder coated for durability.

Do you guys think cold setting to add the additional 16mm is do-able?


----------



## MERK26 (Aug 31, 2009)

sandmangts said:


> Do you guys think cold setting to add the additional 16mm is do-able?


On that frame? No worries. I`d probably put my foot on one side of the rear stays and just giver` a yank...:thumbsup:


----------



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Those Monarch forks, real or repop, are good for cafe and beer runs only, and only if you wear a helmet.

-Schmitty-


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

MERK26 said:


> On that frame? No worries. I`d probably put my foot on one side of the rear stays and just giver` a yank...:thumbsup:


Well I did it and it worked out perfect. Today was one of those perfect days. I had a great ride on my Brave that I just finished and then I came home with a 6 pack and got to work on this great old frame. I used the Sheldon Brown lumber technique along with a piece of wire and a ruler to check the alignment. I just did 8mm on each side and then put it on the stand and checked the alignment. I got lucky and got it right the first time. This frame is a tank. It took all 190 of my pounds standing on the frame to get it to budge. Then I did a mock up with parts sacrificed from my old Mongoose. The goose just happened to use a BMX sized headset that is a perfect match. I need to trim the truss rods a bit. I set her on the ground and stood over it for the first time and it put a big old smile on my face. I must say I am more exited about this build than any other I have done in the past. I like the freedom that comes with a Klunker, you can use whatever works, no bothering with period correctness. It is all about the evolution of the bike. Here are some pics from today


----------



## biss-ness (Aug 13, 2004)

sandmangts said:


> I like the freedom that comes with a Klunker, you can use whatever works, no bothering with period correctness. It is all about the evolution of the bike.


Looking Great! :thumbsup: Paint some fresh scallops, and go ride that beast.


----------



## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

The combination of the silver/newer parts on that old weather beaten frame look completely bad ass!  

Would there be a way to protect the frame, and at the same time keep that same look?


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

GlassTrain said:


> The combination of the silver/newer parts on that old weather beaten frame look completely bad ass!
> 
> Would there be a way to protect the frame, and at the same time keep that same look?


It does look kinda cool that way. Unfortunately leaving it like this is not an option. It would eventually rust away. I good media blasting and anti-rust treatment and then paint or powder coat is essential to preserve it.


----------



## GlassTrain (Oct 22, 2008)

sandmangts said:


> It does look kinda cool that way. Unfortunately leaving it like this is not an option. It would eventually rust away. I good media blasting and anti-rust treatment and then paint or powder coat is essential to preserve it.


I can imagine it would be pretty risky to leave it exposed like that. It just looks so cool. Like it could tell stories to the person riding it! :lol:

Powder coat it flat rust brown? 

Edit: I read back.... Black is good, too.


----------



## Joe Steel (Dec 30, 2003)

Fun project. I have two klunkers that I've setup with the Nexus 7 speed hubs and roller brakes. I think it's a good way to go.

You'll want a 13/16 solid aluminum rod for a seatpost. Check your yellow pages for a stock metal supplier.

Looks good.

Joe


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks Joe. I was wondering what diameter the post would be. I am starting round up the parts now.


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Hey Aaron,

I have a new chrome 13/16 steel post sitting in my garage that you're welcome to. It may be a good intermediate until you get what you need. I bought it for my cruiser and it was the wrong size so it is just sitting.

Also, who do you think you'll use for powder coating. I dropped a frame and fork off at DMF in Escondido yesterday to get an estimate on powder coating/rechroming respectively. RW Little downtown would be my other option. Just curious if you've used either of these. Cyclart is a little too $$$ for my build.

Thanks,

TCN


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks Tim. I am not sure who I am going to get to coat the frame. Cyclart will no doubt do a great job but they are not cheap. Let me know how much your guys charge and how they do. I may take you up on the post.


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Will do. You can pick up the post whenever you'd like. 

RW Little will run between 80 to 110 to strip and powder coat depending on the type of finish. A friend of mine just had them powder coat an old rossin. They did a good job, but he did have to have the bottom bracket threads chased. Otherwise the finish was nicely done. I would have gone there except they don't do chrome and I really wanted the fork on this project rechromed. I'll let you know how these guys in Escondido do.

Update: DMF charged 65.00 to powder coat the frame (Candy Blue) and 85.00 to rechrome the Fork. Decided to give them a shot.

Tim


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

The frame is being coated this week. Bottom bracket adaptor is on order. Wheels are being built. Truss rods are trimmed to fit. I found a nice set of cranks today that should work nicely.


----------



## muddybuddy (Jan 31, 2007)

Are those the new TA copies?


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

muddybuddy said:


> Are those the new TA copies?


Yes, They are made by Electra. I got em cheap at the bike show. No sales tax or shipping so I figured I would try them.


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Looking good!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Made some progress today but I am moving soon so this is on hold for a while. Luckily I am moving within riding distance to work. I will be able to ride on the street to work and after take an off road route through the canyon. I will be getting about 8 miles of dirt daily. I think this bike will fit the bill nicely as a rugged commuter.

I used the Truvativ bottom bracket adaptor and it works well. The UN-73 113 mm bb is a perfect fit but I may need to use a spacer to get the chainline right. Got a piece of 13/16 6061aluminum rod stock for the post. It fits but it will only go in a few inches so I need to smooth out the inside of the seat tube or grind the post a little. Here are a few shots.


----------



## da'HOOV (Jan 3, 2009)

that's gonna be a real poser! lookin good


----------



## scant (Jan 5, 2004)

yup, its looking good, add it to the cruiser thread when its finished


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

sandmangts said:


> Made some progress today but I am moving soon so this is on hold for a while.


Looking good :thumbsup:

That headbadge looks really nice on there!

You look so close... but at least you're not as bad as me dragging it out :blush:


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Very Nice. Good luck on the move.


----------



## MERK26 (Aug 31, 2009)

You`ve got that looking great...so pretty I`d be starting to worry about taking it off road!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

MERK26 said:


> You`ve got that looking great...so pretty I`d be starting to worry about taking it off road!


That powder coating is pretty tough so I'm not too worried. Now that I am close to work this will be my daily commute bike, comfortable enough for cruising into work and tough enough to handle the trail on the way home.


----------



## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Sweet! Get 'er built!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

A little more progress. The wheels came out nice. I knew the fit on the rear was going to be close with the roller brakes but it fits, barely. Plenty of tire clearance for the big Nevegals. Wasn't sure on the post length but the rod was cheap so I bought enough for 2 posts, polished it out and it looks great. Found a new Brooks at the swap meet for 50 bucks too. I lost the damn chain adjuster bolts so I will have to buy some new ones. Oh well they were a little rusty anyway.


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Nicely done with an interesting mix of parts!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Thanks Tim. Although I really like the truss rods and the fork I would like to find a Tange fork like what Scooter has on his DX. The current fork is a little tired. If anyone knows where I can find one or something similar please let me know.


----------



## Andy FitzGibbon (Jul 7, 2007)

Looking great. Someday I'd like to build something like this out of one of my old frames.
Andy


----------



## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

It keeps looking nicer and nicer. So when is the ride report?


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

I'm don't recall exactly what Scooter's fork looks like but as I was putting together parts for my son's BMX bike I noticed that 26" Tange forks show up fairly often in the OS BMX category on Fleabay. If you need it quicker than waiting for an original you can look at these.

http://www.porkchopbmx.com/BMX-Cruiser-26-fork-for-3-8-axle-1-threaded-CHROME-26CHROMEFORK.htm

I ordered some stuff from him for my son's build. Seems like a good guy, ships fast with inexpensive pricing.

TCN

PS. 10% discount with the coupon code museum10.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Timmy said:


> I'm don't recall exactly what Scooter's fork looks like but as I was putting together parts for my son's BMX bike I noticed that 26" Tange forks show up fairly often in the OS BMX category on Fleabay. If you need it quicker than waiting for an original you can look at these.
> 
> http://www.porkchopbmx.com/BMX-Cruiser-26-fork-for-3-8-axle-1-threaded-CHROME-26CHROMEFORK.htm
> 
> ...


Thanks Tim, Scooters is a Tange and looks just like that one. That is certainly the type I am looking for. For $26 bucks they may be worth a shot. Whenever Tanges or Cooks come up they usually go pretty high. As for the ride report, I am just waiting on my handlebars from Skull Skates to show up, till then I can't really move forward. The Nexus hub was suprisingly easy to install. You just remove the standard dust cap and put the roller brake on and then put the cog on with a snap ring and then the shifter assembly. It took 10 minutes and the hub is very well sealed. It should do well here in dry conditions.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Schwinn Sidewinder forks are pretty similar to Tange, and they don't have that pesky washer hole, Those 26 inch Walds don't have much clearance either.


----------



## J_Westy (Jan 7, 2009)

sandmangts said:


> A little more progress. ...
> 
> Wasn't sure on the post length but the rod was cheap so I bought enough for 2 posts, polished it out and it looks great.


Coming down the home stretch! Looking good!

What did you make your set post out of? Stainless or Aluminum?


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

J_Westy said:


> Coming down the home stretch! Looking good!
> 
> What did you make your set post out of? Stainless or Aluminum?


solid aluminum because I am kinda fat. Wet sanded to 1000 grit and the polished with a bench grinder and a buffing wheel. I like shiny things. Had to mill the post a bit to get it into the frame. I thought it would go in more but it only goes in about 6 inches. The handlebar should be here by the weekend and I found some really cool intricately carved steel cable guides to use.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Maiden voyage is tomorrow. Threw a leg over it tonight. The fit is perfect, nice upright relaxed position with no pressure on my wrists. Had to go with a 2.1 Kenda in the rear and although the 2.35 fits up front I will probably go with a 2.1 Nevegal. I will probably go with a stronger fork like a Tange or a Landing Gear when I can find something suitable but this one will work for now. Here are some bad night pics for now.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Sweet.........
I really dig those Skull skate's..
And the S/A nuts...


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

What stem is that Aaron? Tuf? Pro? or?


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

It is an Ebay special Dyno bmx. 10 bucks but I like the polished finish. I love the Skull Skates bars but the shipping from Canada was almost half the cost of the bars. And don't rag on my bell guys, I love that bell. Remember that super loud doorbell at your grandparents house? Thats my bell. I can make hikers and joggers wet themselves with it.


----------



## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

badass !


----------



## Timmy (Jan 12, 2004)

Nice! And for the record, I like the bell.


----------



## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Very Nice!*

That really came together nicely. It looks right, even with the modern bits on it.:thumbsup:

Those cranks are sweet, any idea if they are available online somewhere?

I am thinking about picking up an SA front drum hub to build up for my klunker. How well does it work?

frog


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> That really came together nicely. It looks right, even with the modern bits on it.:thumbsup:
> 
> Those cranks are sweet, any idea if they are available online somewhere?
> 
> ...


The cranks are Electra TA copies and they should be available soon. I got mine at a bike show. With no ride time yet I can't comment on the brakes although the engagement and lever feel is very solid. If all goes well on the maiden voyage today after work I will do my morning commute on it tomorrow and hit 7 miles of fire road on the way home. If I don't reply to this thread after tomorrow send out search and rescue.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I have been riding the bike for the last 2 days. Sadly the old forged fork has a bent steerer that was too slight for me to notice. The headset kept wanting to come loose and if I torqued it down I couldn't steer. It also appears to have a slight bulge which means the stem tends to move and if I over tighten it the bulge will just worsen. While I reall liked the truss rods after day one I removed the fork and replaced it with a cruiser fork. It is not a Tange but until I can hunt one down it will suffice or I may have one made special. After replacing the fork and riding today I can say I am in love.

My overall impression of the bike is this: It is absolutely the most comfortable bike I own. I can't even begin to describe how wonderfully comfortable this bike is. The riding position is perfect, not too upright to mess up the handling, not too aggressive to put pressure on my shoulders, arms and back. The Brooks saddle is vastly more comfortable than I expected. The little bit of give in the leather and the springs is like having a suspension seatpost and its wide profile is nice.

The steering is certainly not like a cross country race bike. With the wide bars and headangle it feels alot like some of the downhill bikes I have ridden. Standing with my thighs clamping the saddle coming down Lopez Canyon today it felt wonderfully stable and balanced just as I had hoped. The ride is nowhere near as harsh as my other 2 steel rigids but I think that is mainly due to the larger volume tires and the saddle. The bottom bracket is fairly low and I believe this contributes to the very stable feel and handling.

The braking is very good. I run Avid Elixers on my main rig and they are quite powerful. The Sturmey drum was super easy to setup. On my first ride I felt the braking was a little lacking but I realized the stock clamp for attaching the arm to the fork leg was not good for the fork I had. On the new fork I used a hose clamp and torqued it down tight and after some breaking in the power is really good. The best thing about it is the progression, you get a smooth progression of power through the pull of the lever. The rear roller brake is enough to lock up the rear wheel with pretty light lever pull.

The cranks and bottom bracket adaptor have worked out very well. I am glad I opted for the 170mm crank due to the lower bottom bracket. I haven't had a rock strike yet but I am sure to at some point. The Nexus hub shifts flawlessly and was suprisingly easy to setup although the instructions suck and it did not come with brackets that had the right angle for my dropouts so I had to do some creative dremel work on the ones it came with. The gearing range is pretty wide. I was able to make it up all the hills in the canyon and had plenty of top end for the downhills.

One thing I love about it is the attention it gets. Even my boss said it was the coolest looking bike he had ever seen. Tomorrow is national trails day so I am taking her out on a group ride. This 7 month project has been worth every every ounce of blood, sweat and frustration. A 74 year old bike has made me feel like a kid on christmas morning again.


----------



## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Too bad about the bent fork, but still looking good!


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Well this weekend I put the bike through its paces and it has held up and performed very well. Braking has gotten progressively better during the break in period. I actually took some small jumps and drops and it is very stable and predictable. The only thing I don't like about this bike is tire changing. If I get a flat on the trail it is a nightmare to change for the rear wheel.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

So here is the bike in its final incarnation. I finally found a decent Tange fork and I used a hinged seat post clamp to mount the drum brakes to the fork. A great idea from another forum member Jwesty. It makes the front brake so much more solid.


----------



## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Looks great Aaron,
Jeff,
Your idea is taking off.


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

Aemmer said:


> Looks great Aaron,
> Jeff,
> Your idea is taking off.


I am using the same idea to mount a chainguard on my Silver King. I used a 31.6mm generic clamp for the same purpose when I changed to this fork.


----------



## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

Hello,
You have a worthy frame. In your picture it looks very rusty. I would sandblast all the rust off then inspect the frame. The original forks are very nice. I like them better than Schwinn forks. I don't have the patience to read through all of the above posts, but someone asked about about a Morrow brake. Morrow did not make one but New Departure did. They are a lot better than drum brakes. Morrow did make heavy duty front hubs, when Morrow changed to Bendix, they continued making the same hub with the Bendix name. They are my favorite old hub. I have most of the parts that you might want, and all of the correct information. There are some people who post on here who don't know what they are talking about, so be careful.
I have included a photo of my 39 Elgin downhill bike (same frame as your Merc). I built it for riding down Mt. Tam and it has survived hundreds of trips. It has a military rear wheel with a Morrow and 120 gauge spokes. The front wheel is from a Columbia Newsboy, it has the Bendix Heavy Duty hub with 105 gauge spokes. The bars are cross-braced Torrington Longhorns. When I hurt my knee, I installed a smaller front sprocket from an Elgin girls bike to make it easier to pedal uphill. I also have the same year deluxe Mercury with tank and everything in nice original paint. In addition these frames were sold as Hiawatha, I have one of those too. If you need anything, contact me at [email protected]
Happy Trails,
chris ioakimedes
www.fattiretyrading.com


----------



## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

When I replied I did not know there was a second page to this thread. You have made a lot of progress since the first page. It looks good. The original fork that you had on the bike is not original. The original one is tubular, like the one on my bike. If you want a close-up, I'll take one for you. The original seatpost for these bikes is solid 5/8" with a special factory shim not 13/16" as stated above.. 13/16" is the Schwinn size.
Chris


----------



## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

fat tire trader said:



> When I replied I did not know there was a second page to this thread. You have made a lot of progress since the first page. It looks good. The original fork that you had on the bike is not original. The original one is tubular, like the one on my bike. If you want a close-up, I'll take one for you. The original seatpost for these bikes is solid 5/8" with a special factory shim not 13/16" as stated above.. 13/16" is the Schwinn size.
> Chris


I guess that would explain why the 13/16 rod I used had to be milled down a bit to fit properly. I found another Mercury frame for sale locally and I am so tempted to buy it but this bike was so expensive to build I must resist.


----------

