# Pulling wheelies



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Any women out there that have mastered the wheelie?

The guys I ride with use them all the time to clear stuff. But the women I ride with never pull them. When I was a kid riding around with my brothers on our stingrays I just never could get it.

Is it an 'upper body strength' thing or a 'mind over matter' thing? Do women just use less body english when we ride? I mean, I can bunny hop, no problem--but wheelies are like the last frontier for me.

Oh wait, I don't do big jumps either. But that's another thread.


----------



## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

it's the body. The upward pull on the handlebars in synchronozation with the powerful downstroke of the pedal at the same time. 

Put you bike in a mid to low range gear, point yourself up a slight slope, keep your hand on the rear brake (if you feel out of control this is what puts the front wheel down in a hurry). Pedal slowly and when your strong leg reaches the apex of the pedal stoke pull up on the handle bars and shift your weight back. This is hard to explain without actually seeing and watching, but try and let me know how you do.


----------



## little b (Jan 7, 2004)

yep, what sarah said. a good visualization is that you are kicking the bottom out of a cardboard box. you are holding the top of the box (your handlebars) and you push through the bottom of the box with your foot while pulling back on the top of the box. 

really, it works. try on a slight up hill, it's easier. and don't clip in, you may end up going backwards. it's an epiphany when it works.

good luck!


----------



## namaSSte (Dec 19, 2003)

one more piece of advice (sorry its from a guy but it'll help I think)....don't pull on the bars with your arms when you can use your whole body. Way too many people "pull" wheelies by yanking hard on the bars which is not only unesccesary but incorrect. Practice shifting your weight back quickly and gently pulling back (not up) on the bars and see what happens. You'll be shocked at how easy it is to get the front end up (note, Screampint's advice on keeping a finger on the REAR brake is perfect here cause you will loop out at first when doing this). Anyway, its really just a matter of physics. Use your body weight instead of trying to muscle the front end up. This also puts you in a much better postion to clear an obstacle requiring this move since your weight will be well distributed over the back of the bike already.

Hope this helps a bit. It's what I used to get my son pulling wheelies. After watching him struggle to get the front wheel only 2" off the ground, I taught him this and right after he understood what I meant, he was able to get it waist high.

Good luck and have fun! Peace,
Scott


----------



## Crankypants (Feb 4, 2004)

*Try a lower gear*

Mmmm wheelies... One thing that helps - use a lower gear than you think you need. If you have to throw your weight forward to power the pedal down, it defeats the purpose. Try it on a curb someday - try the gear that "feels right" then go down a gear or two. You'll be amazed


----------



## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

Ghisallo said:


> Any women out there that have mastered the wheelie?


When I was a kid, I could wheelie as well as any of the boys. I could ride a wheelie all the way down the street and around the corner. I wish I'd kept that skill alive, because now I can only seem to get about 1-2" if air under my front wheel. :^(

Kathy


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Lucky said:


> When I was a kid, I could wheelie as well as any of the boys. I could ride a wheelie all the way down the street and around the corner. I wish I'd kept that skill alive, because now I can only seem to get about 1-2" if air under my front wheel. :^(
> 
> Kathy


Funny, same here 

I think part of my issue now is that my center of gravity has changed and I haven't found that fine line of where my balance really is. Plus, now I'm afraid of flipping over backwards and its been a little harder getting used to the bigger wheels on Mtn bikes.


----------



## Lucky (Jan 12, 2004)

kpicha said:


> Funny, same here
> 
> I think part of my issue now is that my center of gravity has changed and I haven't found that fine line of where my balance really is. Plus, now I'm afraid of flipping over backwards and its been a little harder getting used to the bigger wheels on Mtn bikes.


Same here. Also, the bike I learned on was a 20" banana-seat job with the high-rise handlebars. Puts your weight way back and gives you a lot of leverage for lifting. I got a 24" BMX cruiser to practice on, trying to simulate that, but it's still not the same. When my wrist gets strong again, I'm going to keep practicing. If I ever see one of those banana-seat rigs at a tag sale, I'm going to get it. ;^P

Kathy


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

I dreamed I was pulling wheelies last night thanks to you guy and your advice. 
Hey, it's a start.


----------



## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*They got me going too...*



Ghisallo said:


> I dreamed I was pulling wheelies last night thanks to you guy and your advice.
> Hey, it's a start.


Ghisallo,

I have been unable to shake the notion since this thread started. I plan to work on this skill over the weekend, on a grassy soccer field where I hope it won't hurt to much to fall off!

John W.


----------



## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

Ghisallo said:


> I dreamed I was pulling wheelies last night thanks to you guy and your advice.
> Hey, it's a start.


Yesterday I went out riding and tried to do some wheelies. I didn't do a real wheelie-down-the-street wheelie but I did get my front wheel Way higher than I have previously been able to, if only momentarily. Little b's imagery of a cardboard box reallly helped as did the suggestions of really shfting your weight way back. Woo!

My biggest challenge is my fear of flipping back - I run crank bros candies so it's pretty hard to try the wheelies clipped out (slip off the plasic platform).


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Impy said:


> Yesterday I went out riding and tried to do some wheelies. I didn't do a real wheelie-down-the-street wheelie but I did get my front wheel Way higher than I have previously been able to, if only momentarily. Little b's imagery of a cardboard box reallly helped as did the suggestions of really shfting your weight way back. Woo!
> 
> My biggest challenge is my fear of flipping back - I run crank bros candies so it's pretty hard to try the wheelies clipped out (slip off the plasic platform).


Cool!

Unfortunately, it's snowing out and my bike's all cleaned up for an Ebay auction. Hopefully I can get out soon and try it too. I need to swap my frogs out for flats so I don't get that clip out issue too.

You go!


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

papajohn said:


> I have been unable to shake the notion since this thread started. I plan to work on this skill over the weekend, on a grassy soccer field where I hope it won't hurt to much to fall off!


Yeah, it's really bugging me. It seems wrong to spend thousands on bikes and still not be able to get more than a couple inches.

Let me know how you progress.


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Impy said:


> Yesterday I went out riding and tried to do some wheelies. I didn't do a real wheelie-down-the-street wheelie but I did get my front wheel Way higher than I have previously been able to, if only momentarily. Little b's imagery of a cardboard box reallly helped as did the suggestions of really shfting your weight way back. Woo!
> 
> My biggest challenge is my fear of flipping back - I run crank bros candies so it's pretty hard to try the wheelies clipped out (slip off the plasic platform).


Yikes! I'll definitely be using the flats for wheelie practicing.  You'll really be an excellent wheelier with clipless!

Now, you guys have got me wanting to try more


----------



## Duckman (Jan 12, 2004)

Some thoughts on this. Most have said some great ideas, so I will not go there. The relative slow speed of a mtb is ones greatest enemy actually. When I raced supebikes, it was actually easier. Everything happens slower the faster you go. Sounds crazy, but its true. At Road Atlanta, I often could do wheelies at 120-150+ mph while shooting peace signs to the crowd. Loved doing that stuff. Motocross racing before that was the same, but alot slower LOL! Anyways...I have a much harder time with a mtn bike then any motorcycle. The obvious is...you must get farther back towards the balance point(and hence using up some of the riders safety margin) to maintain the wheelie, relative to the lesser the power output avail. THE main fear of course, is looping out, and second is veering off to the left or right, again because of the relative low momentum. I did this very thing on pavement last summer(looping out), and my spine now has a cronic pain in one disc...dammit. THE best way to keep this from happening is learning to control the rear brake when needed. This needs to be practiced BEFORE its needed for real. One usually will freeze at the controls..so to speak, if this isn't done before hand. Just too much going on at that critcal time. Suggest 2 things...

Practice on a slight up-ish grade like so many have said...but make sure its on a SOFT surface like ones grass lawn, etc. Nothing worse then going over on a hard FS road, pavement, etc. to make one gun shy forever after. 

Practice using the rear brake at those times even tho you didn't need it really. This will build up the needed muscle memory so it becomes more automatic, which is how its gotta be really at that crux time. Once this is learned, one will be amazed at how far they can do a slow speed wheelie. I was. 

Hope this helps

Duck


----------



## pfunk (Jan 12, 2004)

*padded shorts*

Last time I took a serious crack at this was a few months ago. Got a bit of a bruised tail bone. Now I'm itching to try again. I'm going to borrow these from my husband this time though (rockgardn cya shorts).


----------



## Impy (Jan 6, 2004)

pfunk said:


> Last time I took a serious crack at this was a few months ago. Got a bit of a bruised tail bone. Now I'm itching to try again. I'm going to borrow these from my husband this time though (rockgardn cya shorts).


Heck there are some regular rides I could use those on!


----------



## bikinncosprings (Feb 25, 2004)

*Wheelies...*

Screampint has it right...that is exactly the technique that you need to use...However, practice your wheelies in an open field with a soft landing...A curb may prove to be a more bloody experience than you usually prefer....Like screampint said always remember to hit your back break...But mastering the wheelie is only half the battle...You still have to manuever your back wheel over the obstacle...So you need to remember that once you get your front tire up, you need to lean your body forward and pull up with your feet so that the back tire can get over smoothly...Otherwise your seat could end up in a pretty undesirable position....



Ghisallo said:


> Any women out there that have mastered the wheelie?
> 
> The guys I ride with use them all the time to clear stuff. But the women I ride with never pull them. When I was a kid riding around with my brothers on our stingrays I just never could get it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Pirate Girl (Dec 19, 2003)

Duckman said:


> At Road Atlanta, I often could do wheelies at 120-150+ mph while shooting peace signs to the crowd.


Squid!


----------



## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

All this talk about wheelies is making me want to go ride.. but it's winter here right now (Canada) and I'm not much of a winter rider...
I started pop'n some wheelies last year for the first time, so all of this talk is great... Only my problem is, how and when to use the back break.. I can get the bike up and travel for a few rotations, but at that point my front tire wants to drop back down... where exactly is the "sweet spot" for balance..??
b_r


----------



## wickerman1 (Dec 24, 2003)

bike_riot said:


> All this talk about wheelies is making me want to go ride.. but it's winter here right now (Canada) and I'm not much of a winter rider...
> I started pop'n some wheelies last year for the first time, so all of this talk is great... Only my problem is, how and when to use the back break.. I can get the bike up and travel for a few rotations, but at that point my front tire wants to drop back down... where exactly is the "sweet spot" for balance..??
> b_r


 maybe on the east coast the weather is bad for riding but not the west coast  Thats why i left it... got sick of snow.


----------



## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

AAwwwww...!! I love the west coast..!! I lived there for about 4 years, (pre mountain biking). Now that I'm riding, I'm wishing that I discovered it while I was there.. I see all the hype and mtbing trails now and just drool at the sight of ot all...!! One of my goals is to bring my bike out there and hit the trails (BC and Alberta).. I would just love to ride on an actual mountain..!! I'd do it now, but I'm in school at the moment.. but only untill September.. so I have my fingers crossed...
What are you riding out there..?? Are you in the mountains or more the coast..?? I'm sure the North Shore is just sick out there..!!
cheers..!!
b_r


----------



## JanT (Feb 4, 2004)

*How do you like those shorts?*

Are they Crash Pads? I was looking for something like that, but couldn't find them in stores to try them on. I didn't want to order online and not know what size to get. Anyway, are they comfortable, and do they really protect you? I'd like a little hip protection when I attempt more challenging stuff.


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Ghisallo said:


> I dreamed I was pulling wheelies last night thanks to you guy and your advice.
> Hey, it's a start.


LOL! After reading this thread again the other day, I dreamt I was riding a wheelie, too and right into a crowded elevator of all places!  It sure was a lot easier in the dream than in real life


----------



## bikerx40 (Jan 9, 2004)

I was just attmepting to teach my wife with this, so I'll just add a tidbit while it's fresh in my mind. 

Like others have said, I find the trick is to start with the bike going very very slowly (in an easy gear). Just before your 'strong' foot is about to start the down-stroke, I simultaneously move my weight rearward by 'throwing' my back and arms backwards. I maintain a slight bend in my arms throughout the wheelie. 

When I see some people first attempting wheelies, many tend to keep their spine angled towards the front of the bike and then pull/bend their arms in an attempt to lift up the front of the bike. The result is that the wheel only comes off the ground 1-2". 

The problem with that technique is that their weight never shifted backward because their upper body never moved - just their arms. 

Practice synchronizing the strong downward pedal stroke with the bending of your back/arms and see if that helps. Almost like you're doing a back extension at the gym, while pulling backward with your arms at the same time. 

By the way, I always tell people to practice this with normal platform pedals so that you can bail out if you loop out at first. It's also a good idea to have a slight uphill.

Just some more imagery 

Good luck.

-Ryan


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Thanks. Everything written so far has helped. 

I switched to a bike with a slightly longer top tube a couple of days ago and have been able to loft the front wheel a bit higher now. I've kind of re-engineered my bunny hops to be rear wheel bunny hops. While I think this might help me on log crossings, I'm still working on riding a wheelie a few feet for "wheelies sake".

Someone needs to invent a moving harness that attaches to a ceiling or tree limb so one can learn to throw their weight back without fear of 'looping out' as they say.

...OK, I'll get on that.


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Wow, the longer TT helped you get the front of the bike up? I've found that a shorter TT helps me out a little more. Is your HA any slacker? I think that's part of my issue, too. The steeper HA makes it a little more challenging in getting the front end up.


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

kpicha said:


> Wow, the longer TT helped you get the front of the bike up? I've found that a shorter TT helps me out a little more. Is your HA any slacker? I think that's part of my issue, too. The steeper HA makes it a little more challenging in getting the front end up.


You know I'm not sure about head angle as I don't have the two bikes nearby but my initial thought was that with the longer TT (Giant NRS) more of my weight was at the back of the bike. With the shorter TT (Fuel 100) I seem to be more bunched up over the front. It could also be that I'm getting stronger as I've been weight lifting quite a bit or it could be that I'm merely insane and it's all in my head.


----------



## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

Male here....sorry.  I'm certainly no wheelie master, however, it's a skill I try to work on every chance I get, especially while schmutzing around doing urban and the like. Anyhow, here's something I've found that helped me learn the weight-shift techinique for wheelies and manuals (versus trying to muscle the front up): ride towards a short (2, 3, or 4 steps high, like you see in abundance on a college campus) set of stairs at a fast-walk pace. Basically, you want to ride up the stairs, but NOT by bashing into them and letting the front fork do the work. Just before you hit the bottom step, throw a half pedal stroke to your "good foot", quickly shift your weight way back, maybe give the bars a little tug (towards your chest, not pulling perpendicular to the ground), get the front up high enough to clear the stairs, continue pedaling a stroke or stroke and one-half, and then place the wheel down at the top of the stairs. When you touch-down the front wheel, shift your weight forward, and finish the move by riding up the stairs completely (pedaling, of course).

I've found that not only does this help with weight shifting, but it's also is a darn useful trail technique to get hop up ledges and over logs. As you get better (and I'm still working on this, some days more successfully than others), you can actually scoop the rear of the bike up in mid-air, and J-hop the entire set of stairs.  But...back to wheelies...I found that once I learned not to try and muscle the front, I had an easier time getting the front WAY up, and then could work on finding and maintaining the balance "sweet spot" required for extended rear wheel travels.  For some reason, I was also a little less afraid of looping out, although it can - and has - happened.  BTW, CYA (cover your arse) shorts like shown above are a nice bit of insurance, as is practicing on a soft-ish surface. Rock Gardn makes a nice CYA short, as does 661 and Bombshell (I have the Bombshell's and never touch a DH trail without them)

Also, I'd venture to say that a large percentage of the more "advanced" biking skills have little to do with raw muscle power. Sometimes attempting to rely on adult strength is what makes kids wheelie (and other tricks) circles around us oldsters. Like was alluded to, kids don't have a lot of strength, and thus naturally use momentum and balance as their tools, rather than raw power. Sometimes I wish I could go back a ways (a long ways....  ) and bring some of that natural balance forward in time... 

Good luck!


----------



## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

...Oh, and flat BMX-style pedals are a neccessity when learning. I can't tell you how many times being able to get my feet off the pedals and under my butt before it hit the ground has saveed (edit: saved) my...well, saved my butt!  It adds a measure of confidence, as well, IMHO.

In fact, when I left the XC world for downhill, I switched to flat pedals on all my rides, and never looked back. I ride my Frogs only when I do an XC race, every blue moon or two. 

Cheers.


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Hmm, so now maybe we should call it "Popping wheelies" instead of "pulling wheelies" 

Interesting thought on doing the stairs, although, I'd _reallly_ be afraid of falling backwards on them. Now that I think about it, there is a large log that I could practice getting the front wheel up onto. That should be fun.


----------



## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

Don't worry too much about looping out on stairs. The reason I say that is that, mentally, you're trying to achieve something less nebulous than riding around with your front wheel in the air. Setting a "shorter term" goal, one that involves bringing the front end back down to terra firma in relative short order, helps to focus you on timing and executing a front wheel loft, rather than make it simply a small part of a much larger problem, i.e. wheelies.

Practicing weight shifting and the front wheel loft on a log sitting on soft ground is a grand idea. The concepts are all the same, and in case you do somehow manage to loop out, the landing will be soft.

....As just a side note, timing and "correctly" executing a front wheel loft is, IMHO, one of the most important basic skills you can learn on a mountain bike. It's a critical precursor to dropping off stuff (as well as wheelies and manuals). Until I better learned to time and control lofting the front, I was deathly scared of doing drops larger than a foot or so. Once I started to get not only the execution but the timing at various speeds down, my confidence (and drop heights) increased drastically. 

Have fun on that log.  Cheers.


----------



## connie (Mar 16, 2004)

It does seem to be a matter of body english. I always had a problem with it until I took up dirt biking last summer. Somehow despite the fact that on a motorcycle you're just giving it more gas, it got me into the right body position and when I went back to my mountain bike I could loft the front wheel over things I couldn't manage before. Plus I think the dirt bike helped me mentally look at technical climbs with a more positive attitude.


----------



## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*I just gave it a try...*



Ghisallo said:


> Any women out there that have mastered the wheelie?
> 
> The guys I ride with use them all the time to clear stuff. But the women I ride with never pull them. When I was a kid riding around with my brothers on our stingrays I just never could get it.
> 
> ...


It took me awhile to get around to it, partly because I got hurt in a fall this past weekend, but today I worked on pulling wheelies.

I put flat pedals on my Titus Switchblade, and went to a grassy park with several small (3 foot high) slight hills. I used the techniques suggested here.

Eventually I got the front wheel up enough to fall off the back, and the first five times I landed on my butt. The next ten times I came off the back I managed to get my feet under me. After about 45 minutes I had about 8-10 2 foot stretches with the front wheel about 10-12 inches off the ground, and then I was able to set the front back down.

As someone said, it was MUCH more about shifting my weight back than "pulling" the front wheel up. When it worked well it was almost effortless in terms of "pulling".

Oh yeah, a bunch of young kids ended up watching this 54 year-old man make a fool of himself, but boy did I have a blast. I can see this is gonna take alot more work.

John W.


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

LOL- well, it sounds like you had a good time with it. By any chance, did you lower your saddle at all for better clearance? 

I think I'm going to have to find someplace inconspicous to try this stuff out. Who wants to see a 35 yr old woman making a complete fool of herself


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

Congratulations! 

There's this stretch of grass down the street from me I'm going to try it on. 'Course everyone and their neighbor will be watching and laughing but what the 'ell. I suppose I won't opt for tying the pillow to my back yet.


----------



## dang (Jan 20, 2004)

remember to always keep your hand ready on your rear brake lever if you get too enthusiastic with your wheelie to keep from flipping over, especially if you use clipin pedals.


----------



## SprungShoulders (Jan 12, 2004)

OK, one more time:

Rule #1: Don't use clips while learning to wheelie.
Rule #2: Refer to rule #1.

I'm not trying to be flippant (no pun intended), I just want to save someone from pain and perhaps serious injury (cracking a tailbone is absolutely no fun). And safety issues aside, if you do loop out, lying on your back on the ground, with your bike (still clipped to your feet) on top of you, is rather embarrassing.  

Oh, and in terms of saddle height, not XC high, and not DH low. Kinda somewhere in between seems to provide the best compromise in terms of balance and safety.

Happy wheelies!


----------



## screampint (Dec 10, 2001)

My neighbors in the court think I'm insane, but their kids love me!


----------



## papajohn (Feb 1, 2004)

*Lesson #2*

I went back this afternoon to the same park as yesterday. I did loop out several times but always got my feet under me. I got into a groove where I could pull up and go about 18 inches with the front wheel up nicely, drop it down, pull it up again, and do that three or four times in about 25 feet of travel.

Today, two young boys came along on BMX bikes. After watching me for a few minutes from a distance they both rode by and pulled massive wheelies all the way by me. I yelled, "THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!", and they both grinned.

A little later two girls perhaps 8 and 6, came along, and they watched from a distance. As they started to leave the older one yelled, "Hey, how old are you?". I yelled "54, do you think I'm too old for this foolishness?" The older one said, "No, not really, we thought you were in your 20's."

I am still not sure what THAT meant.

John W.


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

Today, two young boys came along on BMX bikes. After watching me for a few minutes from a distance they both rode by and pulled massive wheelies all the way by me. I yelled, "THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!", and they both grinned.

A little later two girls perhaps 8 and 6, came along, and they watched from a distance. As they started to leave the older one yelled, "Hey, how old are you?". I yelled "54, do you think I'm too old for this foolishness?" The older one said, "No, not really, we thought you were in your 20's."

I am still not sure what THAT meant.

John W.[/QUOTE] 
OMG! Now, _that's _funny! Kids say the darndest things.

Well, good for you on getting out and practicing! My bikes been in the shop all week so I just got it yesterday and now the ground is really wet but I'm going to go out this afternoon and see if I can't try a few of these. Should be fun!


----------



## kpicha (Dec 20, 2003)

So, did anyone get to try at all this weekend? 

I didn't ever make it up onto that log I was talking about earlier but I did figure out that its soooo much easier to get up when I'm in the granny gear. At most, I got three quick pedal strokes in before the tire went down but it was a lot of fun practicing and I didn't fall.... we'll see how long that lasts though. I also found that it was easier to practice on level ground rather than a slope or hill.

So, once I really get a feel for this, it'll be on to wheelie drops off of curbs. Woo hoo, I can't wait  Hmm, maybe I should start lookin' at freeride bikes next  j/k(my husband would just lovvvve that- NOT)


----------



## Ghisallo (Feb 8, 2004)

I'm still working on it. I just don't have the hang of it yet. Like they say with most MTB situations it's about 'commitment'.

I'm stubborn though. And a good wheelie is my goal for the year.

I'm glad this thread has at least helped others though. Keep working on it. Your advice about the granny gear helps.


----------

