# Rethinking protection



## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

I had a pretty bad accident weekend before last which resulted in 2 days in the hospital with a collapsed lung. I sort of expect serious accidents every 5 years or so, but it still sucks, and the risk of debilitation is real. A few things that have occurred to me are that all 4 of my serious past accidents have resulted in broken ribs, and often were on non-technical sections. I'm very confident in my abilities to ride over technical sections, and don't generally crash there. The crashes have all beed a result of the "randomness factor" - that the odds are that something will happen by chance. Most people equate risk with the features on the ride, but one thing this last one drove home is that for me, "green" level trails = higher speeds, and that maybe the speed is more of a risk factor than the technicality. a 30+ mph crash is probably going to cause some damage, maybe more than a lower speed bike park mishap. And it has also become clear that I like to break ribs in my flank.

As each year I'm riding faster as my skills progress, yet getting older, I was actually already thinking along these lines before the accident - full face, chest protector & possibly neck brace on all rides, assuming I can find something comfortable enough. Anyone else thinking along these lines? I'm planning to try an Alpinestars a-10 chest protector as it looks well vented, highly protective, and is virtually the only one with flank protection.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

You mentioned bike parks. Are you primarily asking about riding in a park or for general trail riding? In a bike park go ahead and wear as much armor as you feel necessary, but I would have a very hard time trail riding in a chest protector and neck brace. Definitely use kneepads if you aren't already.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

Nat said:


> You mentioned bike parks. Are you primarily asking about riding in a park or for general trail riding? In a bike park go ahead and wear as much armor as you feel necessary, but I would have a very hard time trail riding in a chest protector and neck brace. Definitely use kneepads if you aren't already.


No, the majority of my riding is fast singletrack, usually climb/descent. But my point is that the occasional bike park rides, with the technical features are slower than the trail riding, where I'm descending at 9/10ths


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

I like the Gform shirt and shorts for most rides. It's not the most protective but its also pretty comfortable. For serious DH I have a whole pressure suit thing with chest protector, spine protector, shoulder, elbow, and arm armor. But its so bulky I rarely wear it.

I'm a big believer in protective gear and wear knee and elbow armor on every ride. For more mellow rides I wear gform stuff, and for more consequential rides I have some raceface ones that are a bit more protective. The for serious DH I have the hard plastic knee and shin armor, which again I rarely wear.

Tell you what, though, that hard plastic armor and pressure suit have probably saved me from a broken collar bone and a serious knee injury.

Another thing - helmet, get the best one you can buy. Friend of mine went head first into a tree wearing a smith mainline helmet, the one with the kyrod stuff, and he didn't even suffer a concussion. I went out and bought one of those the next weekend.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

You can't realistically wear all that gear on every ride, it's just too damn hot.

I'd focus less on body armor and more on head, back, and neck protection.

I wear a back protector pack, full face helmet, and shin and knee pads every ride.

When it's hot and I'm climbing, I swap the helmet for a boony cap.


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## thatalexguy (Oct 5, 2021)

Last Thursday I was riding alone and I had a crash and did quite the number on my right knee. Thankfully I was wearing knee pads or I would now be unsure if I would have a right knee. I was riding down fast on some rocky singletrack and somehow lost control of the rear and it was all over. OTB I went and landed off the side of the trail on some rocks and grasses. The right knee took a big impact. Fortunately, for me now, I was able to ride back to the car and drive home before the knee swole up and I lost most of the motion in it for a few days. My knee is still unsteady but I can walk on it now. As I have gotten better as a rider and my speeds have increased I made it a habit always to wear lower-body armor such as good knee pads, a liner short with hip protection, and a hydration backpack which has so far worked very well for back protection. I know how I typically fall and this has been adequate protection for me as I tend to tuck in and roll. 

AS for suggestions for torso armor, I would find out that Gee was wearing in his horrible crash of last year and buy that. That seemed to keep him alive going off what should have been fatal.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

thatalexguy said:


> Last Thursday I was riding alone and I had a crash and did quite the number on my right knee. Thankfully I was wearing knee pads or I would now be unsure if I would have a right knee. I was riding down fast on some rocky singletrack and somehow lost control of the rear and it was all over. OTB I went and landed off the side of the trail on some rocks and grasses. The right knee took a big impact. Fortunately, for me now, I was able to ride back to the car and drive home before the knee swole up and I lost most of the motion in it for a few days. My knee is still unsteady but I can walk on it now. As I have gotten better as a rider and my speeds have increased I made it a habit always to wear lower-body armor such as good knee pads, a liner short with hip protection, and a hydration backpack which has so far worked very well for back protection. I know how I typically fall and this has been adequate protection for me as I tend to tuck in and roll.
> 
> AS for suggestions for torso armor, I would find out that Gee was wearing in his horrible crash of last year and buy that. That seemed to keep him alive going off what should have been fatal.


Agreed on knee protection. I wear my Fox Launch pads on every ride. Now they have all the D30 stuff which is a no brainer. I'll look into Gee's crash


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## thatalexguy (Oct 5, 2021)

This is the crash


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## Bikeworks (Sep 10, 2020)

When I hit the ground I tend to break ribs as well. I'm a bigger guy (225) so that's a lot of mass hitting the ground. I've learned to fall in such a way that my body just naturally does the forearm/flank think (typically left side). The random thing you mentioned is what usually gets me (unseen tree stumps are my nemesis). All that said, I question how much flank/flak jacket protection with help in a fall. I get that they work (in theory) for NFL QBs and the like, but for me and the way I fall, I think my ribs would crack regardless. 

Any way, good luck, and stay upright!!!


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## mtbfree (Aug 20, 2015)

funkle said:


> I had a pretty bad accident weekend before last which resulted in 2 days in the hospital with a collapsed lung. I sort of expect serious accidents every 5 years or so, but it still sucks, and the risk of debilitation is real. A few things that have occurred to me are that all 4 of my serious past accidents have resulted in broken ribs, and often were on non-technical sections. I'm very confident in my abilities to ride over technical sections, and don't generally crash there. The crashes have all beed a result of the "randomness factor" - that the odds are that something will happen by chance. Most people equate risk with the features on the ride, but one thing this last one drove home is that for me, "green" level trails = higher speeds, and that maybe the speed is more of a risk factor than the technicality. a 30+ mph crash is probably going to cause some damage, maybe more than a lower speed bike park mishap. And it has also become clear that I like to break ribs in my flank.
> 
> As each year I'm riding faster as my skills progress, yet getting older, I was actually already thinking along these lines before the accident - full face, chest protector & possibly neck brace on all rides, assuming I can find something comfortable enough. Anyone else thinking along these lines? I'm planning to try an Alpinestars a-10 chest protector as it looks well vented, highly protective, and is virtually the only one with flank protection.


You should not care what others think what level of protection they are comfortable with. You should wear whatever you think is appropriate for you. Even if its full face helmet on XC course


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## racefit (Aug 26, 2010)

I’m looking for low profile shoulder protection. Something with a hard plastic outside but not too bulky. Have found a lot with back and chest protection but those are too bulky. Have found the compression style ones and they look hot and I don’t think I would wear it. 

Ideally something in between where you have shoulder and maybe just enough chest and back area to connect and support the shoulder part. Integrated forearm protection might be nice too. 

I’ll be using for MTB and at the BMX track. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## kpdemello (May 3, 2010)

According to Vital, Gee wears Endura clothing and protection and Bell helmets. Endura's protection appears to be based on D30 flexible armor. You can get similar stuff from a lot of different manufacturers, like Raceface or Fox. 

Gee Atherton - Vital MTB


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

funkle said:


> No, the majority of my riding is fast singletrack, usually climb/descent. But my point is that the occasional bike park rides, with the technical features are slower than the trail riding, where I'm descending at 9/10ths


I looked up the A10 chest protector that you were talking about. Even though it looks ventilated I think it would still be unbearably hot and uncomfortable. It's probably less uncomfortable than broken ribs, I suppose...


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## Collapse (9 mo ago)

Being new to mountain biking, I wanted to ask why I see so many riders with knee pads vs. elbow pads? I wear EVS elbows but no knee pads (which I’ve been considering more and more). However, I ride with jeans and not shorts like most. It might get a bit warm but not unbearable. 

So the question - does the consensus feel knee pads are better/a must have vs. elbow pads?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Collapse said:


> Being new to mountain biking, I wanted to ask why I see so many riders with knee pads vs. elbow pads? I wear EVS elbows but no knee pads (which I’ve been considering more and more). However, I ride with jeans and not shorts like most. It might get a bit warm but not unbearable.
> 
> So the question - does the consensus feel knee pads are better/a must have vs. elbow pads?


For general trail riding I pick knee pads over elbow pads but there's nothing wrong with using both. Although elbows can get scraped up, knees take a more sharp impact. If I'm riding in a bike park I definitely use both.

I'd pick shorts or bike pants over jeans. Do you mean actual bluejeans jeans? Doesn't that chafe?


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## Collapse (9 mo ago)

Nat said:


> Do you mean actual bluejeans jeans? Doesn't that chafe?


I do mean blue jeans, and no they don’t. I’m in jeans most of the time and my current job is pretty active so I guess I’m use to them? I have a set of knee/shin pads that fit over my jeans but it feels like a lot. Being new (and 46) I don’t want to feel like I’m bubble wrapping myself either but yes I want to be protected as well.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Collapse said:


> I do mean blue jeans, and no they don’t. I’m in jeans most of the time and my current job is pretty active so I guess I’m use to them? I have a set of knee/shin pads that fit over my jeans but it feels like a lot. Being new (and 46) I don’t want to feel like I’m bubble wrapping myself either but yes I want to be protected as well.


I usually wear my knee pads under my bike pants. The material is really stretchy so it doesn't bind up but on a warm day my legs can get pretty hot. It might not work with jeans though unless the cut is really roomy. When it's warmer than about 60F I definitely prefer shorts plus knee pads for comfort even though pants would be slightly more protective.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I also don't really often bother with elbow pads (although I own some) as after a few separated and dislocated shoulders, I don't stick my elbows out anymore.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

Collapse said:


> Being new to mountain biking, I wanted to ask why I see so many riders with knee pads vs. elbow pads? I wear EVS elbows but no knee pads (which I’ve been considering more and more). However, I ride with jeans and not shorts like most. It might get a bit warm but not unbearable.
> 
> So the question - does the consensus feel knee pads are better/a must have vs. elbow pads?


The knees take the brunt of most minor tumbles - low siding & slide-outs. I wear them on every ride and they have saved me from countless skinned/banged up knees. Something light & flexible for general use. I use the Fox Launch. But they have been replaced by pads with d30 technology like the Fox Enduro. Troy Lee Stage or Scott Soldier are other options.

If your getting launched over the bars, knee pads won’t help - I think this is best addressed by technique (check out Ian Massey‘s videos)


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

Nat said:


> I looked up the A10 chest protector that you were talking about. Even though it looks ventilated I think it would still be unbearably hot and uncomfortable. It's probably less uncomfortable than broken ribs, I suppose...


With that open grid, it looks a lot more vented than the d30 loaded stretch tops. I was planning to use it without the shoulder ma-pads. You can also take out parts of the back & front section. I’m just going to order it and try it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

funkle said:


> With that open grid, it looks a lot more vented than the d30 loaded stretch tops. I was planning to use it without the shoulder ma-pads. You can also take out parts of the back & front section. I’m just going to order it and try it.


Cool. It should be very protective.


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## Collapse (9 mo ago)

Nat said:


> I usually wear my knee pads under my bike pants. The material is really stretchy so it doesn't bind up but on a warm day my legs can get pretty hot. It might not work with jeans though unless the cut is really roomy.



The jeans I ride with are pretty stretchy. My elbow pads are basically a slip on with a sleeve. I may look for something like that under the legs. I’m sure I’ll be on my ass in no time


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## Collapse (9 mo ago)

Slim kneepads to wear under jeans - recommendations?

With a random search I did find this thread - (sorry if I’ve hijacked the thread)


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## whipnet (Dec 30, 2021)




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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

Have you thought about just slowing down and only really gearing up when you want to push it? I get the randomness factor but you can control the level of risk by how much you're pushing it. I wear knee pads, elbow pads, and a full face on every ride, well not the elbow pads all the time... I have 7IDP knee and elbow pads, I can comfortably wear them in hot weather and pedal 15 miles with +3,500' of climbing while wearing light weight full face without a problem. I'd rather just slow down than wear a chest protector and helmet restraint, even on my ebike I wouldn't want to wear all that. 

I'm in a similar situation to you with getting faster and aging to where I don't heal so fast. I've had to back off and realize sometimes just going at a fun moderate pace is better and live to ride another day. You hit a random stump or rock wrong at high speed or even low speed depending on the situation I doubt a chest protector is going to save you. If anything it might give you a false sense of security.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Am I missing something or did Leatt exit the MTB armor business? Thier website only has apparel now. Was about to link the various protectors they had and now naddah.


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

Collapse said:


> Being new to mountain biking, I wanted to ask why I see so many riders with knee pads vs. elbow pads? I wear EVS elbows but no knee pads (which I’ve been considering more and more). However, I ride with jeans and not shorts like most. It might get a bit warm but not unbearable.
> 
> So the question - does the consensus feel knee pads are better/a must have vs. elbow pads?


You can actually save yourself by landing on your knees or sliding on your knees. I used to BMX (jump ramps, dirt jumps, etc), and I wore hard plastic knee pads. Saved me so many times just landing on my knees and sliding it out.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

shakazulu12 said:


> Am I missing something or did Leatt exit the MTB armor business? Thier website only has apparel now. Was about to link the various protectors they had and now naddah.


Leatt ???

Nope


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

EliminatorMTB said:


> Have you thought about just slowing down and only really gearing up when you want to push it? I get the randomness factor but you can control the level of risk by how much you're pushing it. I wear knee pads, elbow pads, and a full face on every ride, well not the elbow pads all the time... I have 7IDP knee and elbow pads, I can comfortably wear them in hot weather and pedal 15 miles with +3,500' of climbing while wearing light weight full face without a problem. I'd rather just slow down than wear a chest protector and helmet restraint, even on my ebike I wouldn't want to wear all that.
> 
> I'm in a similar situation to you with getting faster and aging to where I don't heal so fast. I've had to back off and realize sometimes just going at a fun moderate pace is better and live to ride another day. You hit a random stump or rock wrong at high speed or even low speed depending on the situation I doubt a chest protector is going to save you. If anything it might give you a false sense of security.


Yeah, that's a dilemma. Substantially reducing speeds would kill a lot of the joy I get from the sport. I'm going to try the protective gear approach first.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Now have come to the same conclusion. Easy, green, faster trails can take you out and cause more injury than the tech stuff. I also looked and my risk adverse mates and asked the question, "are these guys injured less than the risk takers?"

The answer was no. They injured about the same. 
What group then is injured the least.?

The answer was the guy that was still hitting the features, had kept his/her skill up, but wasn't taking on the real risky victory or death features.

So that is where I position myself. Retaining enough skill to hit the features.
I have also chosen to chase the steep tech riding. That gives me the adrenaline rush of riding something very silly mixed with lower chance of significant injury if I stuff up.

Regarding safety equipment. I'm full face and knee/shin pads 85% of the time.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

In 3.5 years of riding I've only had one crash worth noting. But it broke 2 ribs, and shattered a toe in 5 places.

I view knee/elbow pads as TYPICALLY preventing/greatly reducing most of what I call "annoyance injuries". The cuts and scrapes and bruises from low/moderate impacts, plus greatly reduce the risk of a shattered kneecap/etc. But "most of the time" they are just preventing some scrapes/bruises that linger for a week or two.

The full face, and spine protector are for actual injury protection.

I've got a Leatt Level 2 chest/back protector that I plan on taking to bike parks (and occasionally wear on bigger feature trail rides in the winter when its not going to overheat me). But I AM in the market for a lighter/more breathable back/spine protector that I would feel more comfortable wearing on more of my day to day rides. The OP is right. There aren't many chest/back/spine protectors out there that also include flank protection.

I'm currently eyeing the bluegrass protectives stuff. It looks quite low profile/easy to forget about wearing, which is what I'm looking for for this use case scenario.

And add me to the list of people that "don't care what other people think of my appearance". I wear my full face, knee, elbow pads, and a chamois with some light protection on the hips on every ride.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

My crashes have been too random for me to effectively avoid them in any conscious way. I've gotten hurt on high speed jumps trails, low speed tech trails, green trails, double diamond black trails, and everything in between.


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## Prognosticator (Feb 15, 2021)

I have had some brutal hematomas on my forearm/elbow area and my glute/hip area from crashing.

As a result, I wear POC knee and elbow pads and g-form liners with hip pads. I wear them every time I ride. I don't have great recovery balance due to a neurological condition and I can crash going fast, slow, or on green to double-black trails.


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## frana (Jan 5, 2008)

blammo585 said:


> You can actually save yourself by landing on your knees or sliding on your knees. I used to BMX (jump ramps, dirt jumps, etc), and I wore hard plastic knee pads. Saved me so many times just landing on my knees and sliding it out.


Accidents can happen so quickly that you can't react quick enough.


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## frana (Jan 5, 2008)

plummet said:


> Now have come to the same conclusion. Easy, green, faster trails can take you out and cause more injury than the tech stuff. I also looked and my risk adverse mates and asked the question, "are these guys injured less than the risk takers?"
> 
> The answer was no. They injured about the same.
> What group then is injured the least.?
> ...


Your points are taken. I think it would be interesting to research who is injured more as you concluded with your mates.


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## frana (Jan 5, 2008)

I nearly always wear elbow and knee pads. Foam, not bulky, with combination arm sleeve for sun protection. After a buddy of mine fractured his hip (we are the same age) I started wearing hip protection too, also lighter weight and fairly ventilated. 

I'm curious have you known many that were really "saved" by a full face helmet? I really don't see the need for it unless you're a downhiller.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I appreciate seeing dirt jumpers having the presence of mind to bail out mid-jump and slide out on their knees. I never developed that skill.


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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

funkle said:


> Yeah, that's a dilemma. Substantially reducing speeds would kill a lot of the joy I get from the sport. I'm going to try the protective gear approach first.


I get my enjoyment from the black trails and generally avoid the blue/green stuff. All of my crashes have come from the black trails where its super steep or I came off a jump wrong. I guess it depends on what you have access to more of if blue/green trails then speed is somewhat necessary to keep things exciting. Interested to see how the gear works out for you, might consider it in the future....


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## EliminatorMTB (Apr 28, 2009)

frana said:


> I nearly always wear elbow and knee pads. Foam, not bulky, with combination arm sleeve for sun protection. After a buddy of mine fractured his hip (we are the same age) I started wearing hip protection too, also lighter weight and fairly ventilated.
> 
> I'm curious have you known many that were really "saved" by a full face helmet? I really don't see the need for it unless you're a downhiller.



I have landed on my hip once and got a pretty good hip pointer.... what do you wear for help protection? I'd imagine its a padded shammy similar to a football girdle and probably doesn't change comfort too much.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Pads can help a lot but imo, @funkle, you're not looking at them realistically. I wear all the pads: knees, elbows, back (via protector pack or D30 shirt) and FF. The issue is they can't prevent some of the most common shoulder injuries and generally don't prevent rib injuries or many kinds of leg injuries. The best info we have is from the EWS study, and keep in mind riders are required to wear certain gear so the stats are given the riders are wearing knees, back and FF at the very least. IMO knees are super important and will prevent a lot of injury, elbows next and everything else is for rare but potentially serious crashes (back and FF). 

IMO @plummet is correct in his observations that riding only easier trails isn't going to prevent injury. It's the rider and their attitude that makes all the difference. IME it's smooth and confident riders that fare the best, they ride difficult features and trails but also have a good understanding of what's within their ability level as far as both features AND speed. They don't allow ego to push them to go faster or attempt features over their heads. 

Personally, I've been through a series of injuries that required a lot of time off the bike or surgery in the last 5 years after going a decade without serious injury. While it seems a lot like they were from random stuff that you could say is just bad luck I also look back and feel like my attitude was the issue, I'd gotten to the point I was pushing a bit too hard trying to progress and my ego was also involved. So, if you're crashing more than you'd like, the answer isn't more protective gear. I mean, wear it by all means but don't think it's a substitute for looking at your own attitude towards your riding and your ego, because that's the adjustment required ime.


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## Riled (May 1, 2012)

funkle said:


> And it has also become clear that I like to break ribs in my flank.


Does this mean that you're breaking your ribs from the back side? Are you flipping over at high speed or something like that?


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

Riled said:


> Does this mean that you're breaking your ribs from the back side? Are you flipping over at high speed or something like that?


No, on the side of the rib cage, below the shoulder. This has happened when the bike gets taken out from underneath me, once from an angled piece of wood catching the front wheel, once from the handlebar hitting a tree. I then flew sideways, hitting a rock/tree with the side of my chest.


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## Riled (May 1, 2012)

Collapse said:


> does the consensus feel knee pads are better/a must have vs. elbow pads?


I use both every ride, and what I've found for me is that the elbow impacts are rarer but harder. I have used POC VPD protective padding for both elbow and knees for about 2 years now, and had to upgrade to Leatt Hybrid/Hard (3DF 6.0's) for the elbows. Whenever I would go down, I would only get a little bruising maybe on the knees, but my elbow would get a tear wound right through the VPD material. I've found the quality pads are ventilated enough and stay up well enough I don't even notice them anymore. I personally feel the knee padding has saved me from several nasty scrapes, but the elbow padding has maybe saved me from a broken elbow already. I would not ride without both sets of pads, and have cancelled one ride when I forgot them (because you just know that would be the one).

As a side note, I also consistently use liners with hip padding. I often take a hit to my hips, and I feel that these do help. To me, the hip padding products are what cause me more irritation than the knee and elbow pads. They tend to not fit as well, or move too much because the padding doesn't quite fit body kinematics.


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## Riled (May 1, 2012)

funkle said:


> No, on the side of the rib cage, below the shoulder.


I think we all tend to fall in unique, but consistent ways. It's almost like we have a crash preference. Mine is right side with hand and elbow taking the brunt, then hip and knee. My right side is scarred while my left is still smooth like a hand model . I could probably save weight by leaving my left-side knee and elbow pads at home. With that being said, don't let anyone talk you out of what protection you need; they are crashing in their way, not yours. I'm also not sold on the "train yourself to crash better." I can see how it may help in a slow crash with lots of build-up, but the worst crashes are the ones where you go from smiling to body slam. It's all lizard brain, if not just full on rag-doll.

If you figure you need the full bore chest protector with flank coverage, then do it but just focus on the right level of protection that you can actually always wear. The one time you decide it's too hot to wear it is the time you will crash. I think for what you described, if you're not going to change your riding habits, I would stick to hard protection. I don't think the softshell padding is up to high-speed direct impact, non-newtonian hardening gel or not.

I would also look at Leatt. Every Leatt chest protector 4.5 or above has flank protection, and is in the same price range. That should give you something to compare it to.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

This article just arrived in my email. Take a look at the lightweight chest and back protector T-shirt.



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/dainese-announces-details-for-knee-pads-and-back-protectors.html?utm_source=Pinkbike&utm_campaign=675121115d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_04_09_10_04_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6949a82289-675121115d-106321309


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## frana (Jan 5, 2008)

EliminatorMTB said:


> I have landed on my hip once and got a pretty good hip pointer.... what do you wear for help protection? I'd imagine its a padded shammy similar to a football girdle and probably doesn't change comfort too much.


For the life of me can't remember the brand, can't find them now, but they are black with yellow perforated pads, good ventilation (one industries). 2nd pair are Zoic and I removed some of the pads just to make it lighter and better ventilated. Just got a 3rd pair on Amazon. *Bodyprox Protective Padded Shorts for Snowboard,Skate and Ski,3D Protection for Hip,Butt and Tailbone* These have removable pads which is what I was looking for, removed some for less bulk. These are not mtn bike specific and don't have a dedicated chamois pad althouth the tailbone pad extends very low to crotch area.


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## gus6464 (Feb 18, 2014)

I have two sets of gear. Leatt lightweight chest and back protector with 3df hybrid knee and elbow pads for just normal everyday riding. It's more like a compression shirt with removable pads that's not that hot.

Then for park i have the heavy duty 5.5 armor, hard knee and elbow pads, and neck brace. I found that the O'Neal element moto pants and jerseys are light weight and more breathable than most mx stuff while being cheaper than "bike specific" clothing.

The park gear is hot as hell for sure but I'd rather be hot than end up at the hospital.

Sent from my Pixel 5a using Tapatalk


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Oh, here's another thought experiment for you. 

Ask the question. How good are you at crashing? Ie whats your crashing landing skills like? 

Do you crash like a ninja, do a ninja roll and or break fall and get back up most of the time uninjured? 

Or do you crash like a dolphin? Ie face first, arms buy your side taking the impact on your chest/ribs?

I am lucky enough to crash like a ninja, i did martial arts back in the day for many years and the ninja roll and break fall in embedded in my subconcious. The only time i get injured is when what ever i am ninja rolling over is very nasty.


I have a couple of mates who crash like a dolphin and its hilrious to watch. But they do injure them selves very easily.

So.... Though wearing more and more protection is a good idea, its the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff. Addressing the skills to reduce crashing in the first place and improving crashing skill i reckon is the answer for less injury.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

plummet said:


> Oh, here's another thought experiment for you.
> 
> Ask the question. How good are you at crashing? Ie whats your crashing landing skills like?


I feel like the worst accidents happened so quickly, and with such high force/speed, that I had no say in the matter. I was hurled into close by objects. With the less bad ones, I tend to put my arm out, which is bad news for my right shoulder (separated twice)


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I learned to judo roll when I was a little kid so if the crash is relatively slow then I can usually roll out of it, but my worst crashes happened so fast that I was on the ground before I knew what was even going on. Sometimes they just happen in an instant.


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## whipnet (Dec 30, 2021)

Nat said:


> This article just arrived in my email. Take a look at the lightweight chest and back protector T-shirt.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/dainese-announces-details-for-knee-pads-and-back-protectors.html?utm_source=Pinkbike&utm_campaign=675121115d-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_04_09_10_04_COPY_02&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_6949a82289-675121115d-106321309


Could they have found a creepier dude to model that? lol.
Pretty cool though.

*


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Yeah, it can be pretty easy to roll out of an otb in some circumstances, but catch a pedal at speed and you're hitting the ground before you know what's happening. Bikes can also throw you in a manner that's hard to recover from even if you have some time. Pro level riders get hurt quite often and it's not because they can't roll, it's because bike crashes are often fast and/or awkward.


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## frana (Jan 5, 2008)

plummet said:


> Oh, here's another thought experiment for you.
> 
> Ask the question. How good are you at crashing? Ie whats your crashing landing skills like?
> 
> ...


Entry #52 is so true. Something can happen that's son unexpected you just can't even think to react, you're not in control. Yesterday I found myself on the ground on my left side and still can't figure how it happened?!?!


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## unrooted (Jul 31, 2007)

The majority of my crashes are from my front wheel washing out in a soft corner, usually takes a bunch of skin from my knee and elbows. Not sure how to “ninja roll out”. . .


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

unrooted said:


> The majority of my crashes are from my front wheel washing out in a soft corner, usually takes a bunch of skin from my knee and elbows. Not sure how to “ninja roll out”. . .


Yeah, those types of crashes are tough to manage. I've had a couple of those already this season. You usually end up on your side in a hurry. Pads at least help mitigate the body damage.


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

unrooted said:


> The majority of my crashes are from my front wheel washing out in a soft corner, usually takes a bunch of skin from my knee and elbows. Not sure how to “ninja roll out”. . .


Two wipeouts in the same day last year at Whistler bike park for exactly this reason. In retrospect, I think I could have reduced the damage if I'd been lower in my stance and leaning the bike more rather than leaning me.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

DennisT said:


> Two wipeouts in the same day last year at Whistler bike park for exactly this reason. In retrospect, I think I could have reduced the damage if I'd been lower in my stance and leaning the bike more rather than leaning me.


Moving your weight forward over the handlebar might also help the front tire find traction. Easy to say, anyway.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

Yup, add me to the list. Losing the front is usually my jam. Off a jump, drop or whatever I tend to know when I'm going down and can do the ninja moves. Obviously this is highlighting a technique issue and I'm working on it. I obliterated my shoulder last year losing the front in a fast turn and it was out of it's socket before I even knew what was happening.


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## blammo585 (Apr 24, 2012)

I was at a friend's house years ago when we rode BMX, probably in my mid 20s, and we were jumping his ramp in his yard. He lived in town and behind his house was a parking lot. We'd start in the parking lot to get speed to come at the ramp and you had to swing a right hand curve from the lot to head toward his house. I was really cranking and when I leaned to take the curve I was leaning so much the bike went right out from under me. I was inches from the ground when I made the turn and because I was wearing my hard cap knee pads I just went right to my knees and went sliding across the pavement until I came to a stop. I popped up with no damage done to myself, just some plastic off my knee pads. But can you imagine what it would have done to my knees if I had not been wearing them?


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

frana said:


> Entry #52 is so true. Something can happen that's son unexpected you just can't even think to react, you're not in control. Yesterday I found myself on the ground on my left side and still can't figure how it happened?!?!


This is true. Ultimately you play with the bull you eventually get the horns! 

However, the better you are at break falling, and rolling the more you can walk away from. You get to a point of unconscious competence. You don't think, you just do! Hehhe, I was over the bars and down the side of the bank twice on Tuesday night. Injuries? Nothing. 

I have walked away from some crazy sh!t that others have been gobsmacked that I could still stand. On the other side of it, my porpoise crashing mate F$%ks himself over almost every crash. 

Talking of pro's those guys walk away from the craziest of crashes. They have the reactions, the technique and also the conditioning as well. All that hard-worked muscle protects the bones. All you need to do is watch Friday fails to see joe punter and his terrible crashing techniques compared to the pros.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I had a pretty bad crash last weekend. I was able to get up, took inventory and found nothing broken, and started to ride again when i noticed a huge swelling area the size of a Nerf football starting to show through my shorts on my right hip. 

I was wearing only Lycra shorts, workout t shirt, and helmet. I take blood thinners (heart attack and three stents last year) so now I’ve got a bruise on my hip about the size of a large dinner plate, and it’s still swollen somewhat, though not as bad as it was. 

The crash was a result of my reflexes being unable to keep up with my new and greatly improved fitness. 

Given my medical condition and medications, I probably should be more careful and maybe start wearing some padding. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## DennisT (Dec 29, 2019)

I'm currently evaluating armored shorts. I have a pair of Troy Lees and a Leatt 3.0 . The Leatt fits small, so I'll have to go up a size. But both sets of shorts have pads where I usually get most of my bruises on my thighs, so that's a good sign.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

Nat said:


> Moving your weight forward over the handlebar might also help the front tire find traction. Easy to say, anyway.


What works best for me is leaning the bike more deeply into corners than my body. The side knobs on my Minions hook up more, and if/when the bike does slide, it is much more manageable to where you can slide some with no wipeout. And if you do, it is more likely to be a low-side.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

funkle said:


> What works best for me is leaning the bike more deeply into corners than my body. The side knobs on my Minions hook up more, and if/when the bike does slide, it is much more manageable to where you can slide some with no wipeout. And if you do, it is more likely to be a low-side.


Yup. I'm having a hard time programing my mind around this, coming from racing motorcycles where we lean the body way out instead. It's fine when I'm going slower and can think about it. But when I turn up the pace I go into reactionary mode and revert back to old habits. Still working on it though and it just takes tons of reps. When I do it right, I can absolutely feel the front end digging in though.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

plummet said:


> Talking of pro's those guys walk away from the craziest of crashes. They have the reactions, the technique and also the conditioning as well. All that hard-worked muscle protects the bones. All you need to do is watch Friday fails to see joe punter and his terrible crashing techniques compared to the pros.


I've consistently been amazed by this as well.

You see some pros get absolutely wrecked, and are somehow fine/mostly fine. Yet watching Fails/GMBN top crashes, you see some people have what appears to be a relatively minor crash, yet you see/read in the comments that they broke their collarbone/ribs/whatever. And while I am sure some of it is practice (and in some cases some body armor), I'm convinced that a lot of it is simply that the pros are in much better shape physically.



celswick said:


> Given my medical condition and medications, I probably should be more careful and maybe start wearing some padding.


I've got an older pair of Leatt padded chamois. They've got some thin rubberish padding over the hip socket (the same material they used in their airflex pads), and a foam pad on the outside lower thigh. When I wear them, they very much feel transparent to me (ie, I don't notice the hip or thigh padding at all when I'm riding). 

They were an older version of this.










Some other padded shorts I've seen have looked like they've got quite a substantial amount of padding, and I'd be worried they'd feel really bulky when riding. These Leatt shorts I'm sure are not as protective as some of the others I've seen. But they seem the perfect size/protection amount to commit to wearing every ride, and to take the worst out of any crashes. Maybe check them out and see if they will work for you.

Here is one of the more "bulky" looking ones I've found, in comparison.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I've got both pairs of shorts that @ocnLogan just posted, as well as some G-form ones and I forget the other ones. Despite all the various differences in bulk, I don't notice any real difference between them while riding when it comes to comfort. I ride 3 to 4 times a week so I bought a bunch so I only have to do laundry once a week.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

shakazulu12 said:


> Yup. I'm having a hard time programing my mind around this, coming from racing motorcycles where we lean the body way out instead. It's fine when I'm going slower and can think about it. But when I turn up the pace I go into reactionary mode and revert back to old habits. Still working on it though and it just takes tons of reps. When I do it right, I can absolutely feel the front end digging in though.


I used to ride/track street motorcycles as well. We would hang off the bike into the corner. It is the exact opposite with mountain bikes. And it's funny how everyone tries to explain cornering in terms of how you angle your knees & hips - none of this made any sense until I heard it explained as simply leaning the bike more - the body alignment stuff just happens automatically. When you finally do get the muscle memory, it feels marvelous!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

ocnLogan said:


> I'm convinced that a lot of it is simply that the pros are in much better shape physically.


I'm always impressed (but not really surprised) when I see professional athletes do a sport other than what they're paid to do. For example, there's one Red Bull pro freestyle skier who I follow on Instagram that's at the top of her sport. One of her Instagram posts was of her riding a mountain bike just for fun and goddam, she was nailing gap jumps as smooth as sh**. When I was in college my roommate was a professional trials rider. "Oh, you wanna play tennis? Sure, I can do that." BAM BAM BAM -- ran my ass all over the court. There's a local pro skier who it turns out is also amazing on a mtb. Pro athletes are simply more physically capable all-around than the typical human.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

shakazulu12 said:


> I've got both pairs of shorts that @ocnLogan just posted, as well as some G-form ones and I forget the other ones. Despite all the various differences in bulk, I don't notice any real difference between them while riding when it comes to comfort. I ride 3 to 4 times a week so I bought a bunch so I only have to do laundry once a week.


Glad to hear your experience has been the extra bulk isn't noticeable. Maybe I'll branch out and try a few others when these wear out .

That said, I love this style of short. Given how unobtrusive I personally feel they are, I wear them on every single ride, and feel a bit better about my chances of my hips if I crash in a rocky area.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

funkle said:


> I used to ride/track street motorcycles as well. We would hang off the bike into the corner. It is the exact opposite with mountain bikes. And it's funny how everyone tries to explain cornering in terms of how you angle your knees & hips - none of this made any sense until I heard it explained as simply leaning the bike more - the body alignment stuff just happens automatically. When you finally do get the muscle memory, it feels marvelous!


Turning without trailbraking is the other one. I'm so used to grabbing as much front brake as possible to shove the front tire into the turn while actively turning. And also never using the rear brake. So combine that with my old body position habits, and yeah, nearly all of my crashes are the sudden loss of the front type. I seldom go down in the other areas that you would think I would. Charging rock gardens etc. It's always a stupid turn.


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

ocnLogan said:


> Glad to hear your experience has been the extra bulk isn't noticeable. Maybe I'll branch out and try a few others when these wear out .
> 
> That said, I love this style of short. Given how unobtrusive I personally feel they are, I wear them on every single ride, and feel a bit better about my chances of my hips if I crash in a rocky area.



I won't ride without shorts, elbow and knee pads and a trail'ish FF helmet. The shorts were the last addition to my daily ride package and I am not sure why I didn't wear them right from the start. Of all the types of protection we can wear, they are the least obtrusive.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I use POC hip 2.0 for dh, ASOS liners with or without the hip pads depending on the ride, or 7Mesh boxers (no pads).

ASOS pads are minimal but after years of riding dh they are placed where you need them most ime... you can get them for about $100, pricey for chammies but they are very high quality. 









TRAIL Liner Shorts, blackSeries » ASSOS Of Switzerland


Shop online the product TRAIL Liner Shorts, blackSeries, at the ASSOS Of Switzerland Official Store » Find out more details: enter the site.




www.assos.com


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

shakazulu12 said:


> Turning without trailbraking is the other one. I'm so used to grabbing as much front brake as possible to shove the front tire into the turn while actively turning. And also never using the rear brake. So combine that with my old body position habits, and yeah, nearly all of my crashes are the sudden loss of the front type. I seldom go down in the other areas that you would think I would. Charging rock gardens etc. It's always a stupid turn.


Do cornering drills like figure-8s, video yourself to make sure your technique is correct and repeat a lot. IME you won't be able to use these skills on the trail until the movements are burned into your muscle memory. 

Once on the trail it'll still be impossible to do everything 100%, so concentrate on the most important things like looking through the turn and hand/elbow position while leaning the bike over. These two things will lead to the correct body position, and you must do them to achieve correct body/bike separation.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

davec113 said:


> I use POC hip 2.0 for dh, ASOS liners with or without the hip pads depending on the ride, or 7Mesh boxers (no pads).
> 
> ASOS pads are minimal but after years of riding dh they are placed where you need them most ime... you can get them for about $100, pricey for chammies but they are very high quality.
> 
> ...


Anyone have any thoughts on the Troy Lee 7605? I was going to give these a try.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

Here's the A-10. It is pretty light & minimal feeling with the shoulder pads removed. Fit's under a jersey. It should vent pretty well with a mesh t underneath.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Well, My crash count this week.

3 over the bars, 2 of which also upside-down banks at the same time. The last over the bars. Involves ninja rolling over a mat of roots. 

Injuries? A couple of scrapes and bruises. 

Protection, full face, knee shin pads, knuckle duster gloves. 

I am fully endorsing crash technique as the saviour this week.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

My protection setups are as follows:

XC: Nothing but lycra, gloves, and helmet

Light Trail: Giro Montaro helmet, gloves, Leatt Airflex knee, and either long sleeve or short sleeve jersey with Leatt Airflex elbow, Assos chamois

Aggressive Trail/ Enduro (jumps, rocks, etc): IXS Trigger Mips FF, 7idp Sam Hill knee/shin, 7idp padded shorts, POC VPD Torso chest/back protection, Leatt Airflex elbow

Currently putting together a DH/park kit that will include a full pressure suit, Leatt kneck brace, TLD D4 full face or similar.

Badly bruised my ribs/sternum twice last year, and fell on my elbow in a really bad way once as well. It's just not worth getting hurt when you can avoid it.

If anyone has recs on a pressure suit, I'd love to hear them. Last I was doing this stuff, it was all about Dainese. Looking at the Leatt ones, but it's hard to make a choice.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

norcalbike said:


> My protection setups are as follows:
> 
> XC: Nothing but lycra, gloves, and helmet
> 
> ...


I have this for DH or when I'm not using my backpack (EVOC protector pack). Also have a Bell Full 9 FF.









BASEFRAME PRO SS [BLK] XL | Fox Racing®


Buy BASEFRAME PRO SS [BLK] XL at Fox Racing®




www.foxracing.com


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

davec113 said:


> I have this for DH or when I'm not using my backpack (EVOC protector pack). Also have a Bell Full 9 FF.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m thinking something even more beefed up. Planning a trip to Whistler, and I’ve had my fair share of wrecks there back in the day.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

norcalbike said:


> I’m thinking something even more beefed up. Planning a trip to Whistler, and I’ve had my fair share of wrecks there back in the day.


D30 is much better than you'd think, I've crashed really hard on D30 knees and elbows and even the lightweight "enduro" pads are pretty amazing. Luckily I have not tested the back protector. That Fox shirt back pad is actually pretty burly, I think it's level 1 rated. D30 actually had less peak force vs a hard shell protector in one impact test I found, it's hard to believe until you experience it.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

davec113 said:


> D30 is much better than you'd think, I've crashed really hard on D30 knees and elbows and even the lightweight "enduro" pads are pretty amazing. Luckily I have not tested the back protector. That Fox shirt back pad is actually pretty burly, I think it's level 1 rated. D30 actually had less peak force vs a hard shell protector in one impact test I found, it's hard to believe until you experience it.


Not doubting d3o at all. Just looking for more overall coverage.


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## pdiddy (Sep 20, 2008)

funkle said:


> Here's the A-10. It is pretty light & minimal feeling with the shoulder pads removed. Fit's under a jersey. It should vent pretty well with a mesh t underneath.


I've been dirt biking and mountain biking for 20+ years, and the current Alpinestars chest protectors are the best I've ever seen or used. I am also someone who tends to injure my ribs when I fall on my flank, but haven't done so in 5+ years since I started wearing flank protection while on the dirt bike. The combination of ventilation, weight, and protection cannot be beat. I have either tried on or owned just about every sort of chest protection that includes flank protection, and the A10 is my favorite. Leatt protects well, but not as vented or light. The shirt style D3O protectors that a variety of companies make aren't as vented either. I tested by standing in front of a fan. Not the most scientific test, but I could feel more airflow with the Alpinestars than the other designs.

All that being said, I don't wear the A10 on the mountain bike, it's a bit overkill for me. Rather, I wear an A1 under a mesh jersey when riding jumpy and technical trails. No flank protection, but a tradeoff I make for the cooling advantage. If I ever get around to going to a lift-served bike park, then I'll wear the A10.

One last thought: from my experience, the A1 and A10 vent the best when worn directly on the skin, with a mesh jersey over the top. I feel less airflow when I wear the chest protectors over the jersey. It seems the jersey will bunch and have little creases when under the chest protector, and those block airflow.


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## Igotsoul4u (May 11, 2019)

Definitely check out leatt body protectors for more gnarly rides. I wear one everytime I go to the bike park or when hitting jumps. It has saved me on many many occasions and I absolutely love it. I have the 3DF Airfit but there are less gnarly ones. The jacket I have would be too much for pedaling IMO. Overall I am a knee/elbows guy whenever I know I am going to ride aggressively. Bone vrs rock will always be a hard battle to win and the older you get, the longer the recovery time. In general I find MTB to be a "hot" activity so a few extra pads have never bothered me. My go to knee pads are the amazing IXS Carve Evo. Lots of protection and all the comfort! Overall I am more likely to go with knee pads but the elbows come in real handy if you have to stretch out your arms. I have learned to use my elbow pads rather then my hands after breaking my left hand on a high speed berm.

The other thing that has helped me is learning to fall "better." Learn how to tumble in and out of crashes.

Here are some of the body protectors I researched.









Flex Suit


7iDP Flex Suit The Flex Suit offers customizable shoulder protection with the option to carry a water bladder in place of the spine protector. All the pockets you need on the trails in easy access positions and a compression fit that can be worn under a jersey. CUSTOMIZABLE PROTECTION Using the...




7idp.com













leatt


Protective Neck Braces, Body Armour & Sports Gear




leatt.com


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## n00b 4ir (8 mo ago)

I don't know if it's been mentioned or what the opinion may be, but there's the Fox Airframe Pro CE Jacket that looks pretty heavy duty and possibly overkill in some respects.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Update here. I ordered the Leatt 3.5 neck brace, TLD D4 Carbon, and a few pressure suits from Leatt to try in anticipation of some park riding this summer. 

The Leatt Airflex and Airtfit 3DF Lite Protectors did not feel substantial enough and will be going back. 

I’m holding on to the Leatt Airfit 3DF hybrid for now, which feels fairly substantial, but I feel like the chest protection still leaves a fair amount of lower ribs exposed, has no kidney belt, which my Dainese pressure suits had back in the day, and am a little wary of the lack of lower back/lumbar protection. 

Am I overthinking this? I never plan to pedal in this kit. It’s exclusively for eating **** at places like Northstar, Whistler, Snow Summit, and Mammoth. 

My plan is to order the 5.5 and 6.5 Leatt pressure suits as well, and see if those are comfortable and check the boxes. It’s a little disappointing, because I think just a tiny bit more coverage would make the 3DF pressure suit perfect.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

norcalbike said:


> Update here. I ordered the Leatt 3.5 neck brace, TLD D4 Carbon, and a few pressure suits from Leatt to try in anticipation of some park riding this summer.
> 
> The Leatt Airflex and Airtfit 3DF Lite Protectors did not feel substantial enough and will be going back.
> 
> ...


You won't be pedaling uphill but you'll still be pedaling downhill (sometimes hard) and will want decent mobility. Too much hardshell stuff on you might make you ride stiff. When I've put on a neck brace and full torso pressure suit (designed for moto) everything was so stiff that it hindered my breathing and movement. Somewhere in between is your sweet spot.


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## funkle (Sep 11, 2006)

I now have done several rides with the Alpinestars A-10. It front, it feels cool and unobtrusive. What kills me is the back protector. It presses on my spine, and makes my hydration pack sit awkwardly and bind at the shoulders. I’m thinking of removing it, leaving only the inner mesh piece. I’m actually dubious of the benefits of lower back protection (for me anyway). Seems most lower/mid back injuries will be from twisting & compression rather than impact. Plus I could always use a hydration pack with built in back protection.


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## mastakilla (Sep 3, 2005)

norcalbike said:


> Update here. I ordered the Leatt 3.5 neck brace, TLD D4 Carbon, and a few pressure suits from Leatt to try in anticipation of some park riding this summer.
> 
> The Leatt Airflex and Airtfit 3DF Lite Protectors did not feel substantial enough and will be going back.
> 
> ...


i went through this a few years ago, ordering and returning tons of protection till i found out what worked for me.

for me it is the leatt 4.5 pro hardshell protection with the big plastic shoulder pads that i wear over my jersey. shoulder protection is a must for me and i think something everyone overlooks until they brake a clavicle or separate an ac joint. i tried the 4.5, 5.5 and 6.5 and the 4.5 with the shoulder pads ended up working out the best for me. i use this with the altas vison collar which is the only neck brace that i have ever been able to comfortably wear. the protection of the neck brace is not as much as other braces but it does not constantly bump my helmet in the back which is something i could not stand with every other neck brace i tried


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

frana said:


> I nearly always wear elbow and knee pads. Foam, not bulky, with combination arm sleeve for sun protection. After a buddy of mine fractured his hip (we are the same age) I started wearing hip protection too, also lighter weight and fairly ventilated.
> 
> I'm curious have you known many that were really "saved" by a full face helmet? I really don't see the need for it unless you're a downhiller.


My last fall. Not downhill, got catapulted and luckily the chin bar took it or i would be having a very hard to understand conversation with my dentist. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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