# Anyone using folding locks?



## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

I was looking at some U-Locks but came across these folding style locks, they seem decently reviewed and would be easier to transport. Anyone here using something like this? Any thoughts?

http://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0046RVY...lid=3K4XUODJD456K&coliid=I2061XUDJN9YMM&psc=1


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

You can probably bend one of those open with a foot long steel bar in like 3 seconds (at the rivets). 

I have a pragmasis 11mm chain (boron steel), and a squire 50 closed shackle lock also made out of boron steel. Also bought from pragmasis. These are serious locks. Much better than anything kryptonite or abus makes. They also sell kits chain/padlock at very good prices at pragmasis. 

I shortened my chain a bit with a 1m bolt cutter, well I tried at least. didn't work out too well to be honest. Had to resort to an angle grider and mounting the chain in a vise. 

Most u locks can be bent open and pumped open with a small hydraulic jack, all armored cable locks (snakelocks) can be leveraged to reveal the cable inside and snip it. Most if not all abus and kryptonite chains are through hardened and usually square profile and those are brittle crap. Also their locks for these chains are not as good a squire for example, far from it. 

buy once cry once.


----------



## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

I'm mostly trying to find the balance between carrying some crazy like a thick chain and reasonable deterrent.

I'm looking for something more for trips to the store in a low/moderate crime area, not locking up all day in NYC. I was considering something like 2 folding locks and a chat with my insurance agent about coverage in case something does happen.


----------



## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

Defeating the ABUS Bordo 6000


----------



## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)




----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

thats through hardened crap for ya! Everything abus and kryptonite makes behaves like this.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

formula4speed said:


> I'm mostly trying to find the balance between carrying some crazy like a thick chain and reasonable deterrent.
> 
> I'm looking for something more for trips to the store in a low/moderate crime area, not locking up all day in NYC. I was considering something like 2 folding locks and a chat with my insurance agent about coverage in case something does happen.


the time your bike will get stolen is when "you were just going to the store".

Either you get a real lock or you get some crap. Pretty much everything except a (good) chain and (good) padlock is crap. its for show only. People that steal bikes know this and attack these locks appropriately. they are pros.

The only deterrent lockwise is a sufficiently thick chain (not through hardened) and a good padlock (should be closed shackle).

A squire cs50 and half a meter or so of 11mm pragmasis chain is like 1,5 kilos. Thats the lightest you will ever get and still have good security. Just so you know. Only good chains are pragmasis and almax. Padlocks can be found all over that are good but i have a feeling the squire closed shacke ones the absolute best ones.

Locking up a bike with this signals: "just forget it".


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

formula4speed said:


> I'm mostly trying to find the balance between carrying some crazy like a thick chain and reasonable deterrent.
> 
> I'm looking for something more for trips to the store in a low/moderate crime area, not locking up all day in NYC. I was considering something like 2 folding locks and a chat with my insurance agent about coverage in case something does happen.


I use an OnGuard U-lock and a Kryptonite combo cable, with the U-lock being the primary attachment to the rack, but the cable also secures the frame, rear wheel, AND front wheel to the rack. So a thief trying to steal my bike would have to cut two locks. Not difficult per se, but it adds steps that thieves would rather avoid. I only lock my bike for short periods of time outside. Otherwise, it comes indoors with me, so it's never left outside for long periods of time.


----------



## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Looks like the folding lock was cut at the pin/rivet, guess that's probably too obvious of a weak point.

I've also considered the TiGr lock which seems like it would fair well against a bolt cutter attack.

U-lock and cable combo is still on my radar. I know a professional bike thief can defeat most of these things, but I think I mostly need to keep honest people honest. Outside of that, I think I'd rather have an insurance policy than carry a military grade chain and padlock.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

formula4speed said:


> Looks like the folding lock was cut at the pin/rivet, guess that's probably too obvious of a weak point.
> 
> I've also considered the TiGr lock which seems like it would fair well against a bolt cutter attack.
> 
> U-lock and cable combo is still on my radar. I know a professional bike thief can defeat most of these things, but I think I mostly need to keep honest people honest. Outside of that, I think I'd rather have an insurance policy than carry a military grade chain and padlock.


Well the tigr lock is made out of titanium, either 3al2,5v or 6al4v* or* if they actually tried to make a good lock some beta alloy (which i'm 99,9% certain it isnt), and both 3al2,5v and6al4v is easiest cut with an actual hacksaw with carbide/bimetal blade. I guess I could go through that lock in about 5 seconds. I used to make hobby stuff out of 6al4v and its usually quite hard to saw and machine with machines, but with a hacksaw! no challenge. You just need to put high pressure on it when sawing it, then its like butter. Almost.

Its your bike man, get whatever you want. but insurance is always a worse deal than still having your bike.


----------



## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

I get what you're saying and appreciate the input. I guess I just feel like if it's a professional bike thief, they are probably getting my bike no matter what. Whether it's bolt cutters, hack saw, angle grinder, etc. At some point they could cut the aluminum frame and take the rest for parts.

I'm mostly looking to stop the random guy looking for an easy grab, which I suspect makes up most of the crime where I am.


----------



## Jeff_G (Oct 22, 2015)

I really like that Ti lock. I am sick of my heavy ulock. With my fat bike I have to carry a cable and padlock in addition I am in a risky place.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

car bone said:


> Well the tigr lock is made out of titanium, either 3al2,5v or 6al4v* or* if they actually tried to make a good lock some beta alloy (which i'm 99,9% certain it isnt), and both 3al2,5v and6al4v is easiest cut with an actual hacksaw with carbide/bimetal blade. I guess I could go through that lock in about 5 seconds. I used to make hobby stuff out of 6al4v and its usually quite hard to saw and machine with machines, but with a hacksaw! no challenge. You just need to put high pressure on it when sawing it, then its like butter. Almost.
> 
> Its your bike man, get whatever you want. but insurance is always a worse deal than still having your bike.


If you think any piece of hardware is going to do anything substantial against a professional bike thief, you're delusional. I talked to a guy whose hitch rack was cut off the vehicle even though the bikes were NOT locked down...simply because it was faster to use a battery-powered reciprocating saw and have 2 guys lift the whole thing into a van than it was to unfasten the straps holding the bikes down. Those guys probably had a full kit of tools in that van to get any bike they wanted. That kind of crap is what insurance is for. Thankfully, those kinds of attacks are relatively uncommon.

I want to prevent thefts from the random meth head looking for a fix who doesn't plan beyond now. I want to protect against the random low level scum who might only carry a single easily concealed tool to chop cheap locks.



formula4speed said:


> I get what you're saying and appreciate the input. I guess I just feel like if it's a professional bike thief, they are probably getting my bike no matter what. Whether it's bolt cutters, hack saw, angle grinder, etc. At some point they could cut the aluminum frame and take the rest for parts.
> 
> I'm mostly looking to stop the random guy looking for an easy grab, which I suspect makes up most of the crime where I am.


And that's the correct way to think about it. If the thief has the right tools, they'll just cut the rack, tree, light pole, fence, or whatever else you lock to and deal with your overbuilt lock later.


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

I have an Abus 6500 folding lock because I couldn't get a U lock to fit around the thick carbon tubes of my new stupid fat bike. I've only used it a half dozen times or so and haven't gotten the hang of locking it quickly yet. It weighs at LEAST twice as much as my U locks, but fits in my frame bag so I just leave it there.

My new school is in a non-bikey suburb and there's ONE crappy rack to lock up bikes to. It's a thin weak steel (or maybe even aluminum) that's definitely weaker than any of my locks.

I may sell my locks and get a LITELOK® | Lightweight Bike Lock | Light Bike Lock | LiteLok when it's available. Looks kind of annoying to haul, but I ride with a backpack so I'll manage.


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

I just rewatched their video of cutting attempts. They didn't try very hard. Also, why is it 29" instead of like 32? It could have been hauled around my waist.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Volsung said:


> I just rewatched their video of cutting attempts. They didn't try very hard. Also, why is it 29" instead of like 32? It could have been hauled around my waist.


hipsters in skinny jeans


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

Harold said:


> delusional.


The point I'm making is that you can defeat all locks except a chain without power tools in seconds. With a good chain and padlock you need to use power tools or its not happening. And thats a good reason imo.


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I think you're delusional for holding that chain you use on such a high pedestal. You can defeat ALL LOCKS if you have the right tools. There are battery powered power tools that are more compact than a big set of bolt cutters. It doesn't matter. I know of some occasions of people being knocked off their bike, with the entire objective to steal their bike and rob them. A lock isn't really useful here.

Locks are such a small part of the equation that it's silly to invest so much effort into finding the "perfect" one. More important are how those locks are attached to the bike, where the bike is locked up, when it's locked up, how long it's locked up, and so on. Those things all use my brain. I don't need to buy anything. But I do need to be smart. I do need to be observant. And I do need to learn. If all I'm doing is relying on something I've purchased, I have set myself up to be disappointed.


----------



## sweetfilly7 (Jul 2, 2008)

If someone wants something of yours badly enough, they're going to get it. 

I do what I can reasonably do to make thieves pick a different target. Where I lock up, the locks that I use and what I lock to are all part of that equation.


----------



## Saul Lumikko (Oct 23, 2012)

formula4speed said:


> I guess I just feel like if it's a professional bike thief, they are probably getting my bike no matter what.


When walking through the jungle, you don't have to outrun the predator. Just outrun someone else in your group.


----------



## nbwallace (Oct 8, 2007)

I've been using an Abus Bordo for a while. I like that I can throw it in a jersey pocket. It is heavy, and I don't thin it's particularly secure. I live/work in places where I don't worry too much about theft. It's pretty much a "just don't walk off with it" kind of lock.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

sweetfilly7 said:


> If someone wants something of yours badly enough, they're going to get it.


Yeas of course. If someone has access to power tools and such its only a matter of time, like less than 30 seconds. But still its harder to defeat some locks than others. they dont provide the same level of security by far. I mean I run the lowest (imo) level of security, but I were to step up to a squire cd65 and 13mm chain they whole package would weigh twice as much.

Even kryptonite and abus makes these chains with integrated locks, these are much better than pretty much everything else even though they may only be 8-9-10mm chains. But its not like you can leverage these with a pipe or cut them with an electrical plier. so its always something. and these are fairly light.


----------



## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

The real question here is why isn't that product called the "foldi-locks"??? Some locks are too heavy, some locks are too light, but this lock is Juuuuuust Right.


----------



## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

^^ Best answer! 

I got one on Chainlove and have somewhat more confidence in it than a cable. The combi is a PITA in winter/dark though, so I have not been using it regularly recently. Lighter and more compact than a U-lock for moderate security needs.


----------



## Bimmer74 (Jun 9, 2013)

formula4speed said:


> I'm mostly trying to find the balance between carrying some crazy like a thick chain and reasonable deterrent.


Amen.

If you're in a low risk area, and your bike is cheap, then an Abus 6000 would be fine.

I've seen both the 6000 and the 6500, and the 6500 is much more substantial, and the key lock is better.

My wife and daughter and I all use 6500s in low-risk situations - suburban shopping, and $700 bikes.

That said, I commute to a bike-thief-infested downtown, and I use an Abus Granit Power 58 U-Lock there (designed for motorcycles).

Overnight, our bikes are parked in a courtyard, and they're secured with the same massive U-locks and 16mm Abus chains.

I sleep well.


----------



## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Thanks for the input all.

For now I'm going to get an Abus frame lock that locks up the back wheel and I ordered the titanium TiGr lock I mentioned before instead of a U lock. I'm thinking that should be good for where I am and what I will be using the bike for. I've also got a cable lock kicking around so I'm hoping it would be more annoying than a casual thief wants to deal with.

The Litelock looks pretty interesting as well and I may look into that when it becomes more readily available.


----------



## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

I have a very frugal friend that uses a shoe string to lock up his bike. We rode to a Burrito joint one day and he pulled it out and tied up his bike. I asked him if he felt that was going to stop someone from stealing his bike and he replied it will slow them down just long enough for me to run out and catch them. I'm not joking - he really ties his bike up. :lol:


----------



## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ He doesn't spend much on shirts either :lol:


----------



## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

CommuterBoy said:


> ^^ He doesn't spend much on shirts either :lol:


The funny things is - he owns three homes, owns a successful business, and he bought me lunch - go figure?


----------



## Volsung (Nov 24, 2011)

Is his seatpost backwards?


----------



## matuchi (Jun 9, 2008)

Volsung said:


> Is his seatpost backwards?


Does it look like it's backwards?

I'll check it out on our next ride.


----------



## Bokchoicowboy (Aug 7, 2007)

formula4speed said:


> Thanks for the input all.
> 
> For now I'm going to get an Abus frame lock that locks up the back wheel and I ordered the titanium TiGr lock I mentioned before instead of a U lock. I'm thinking that should be good for where I am and what I will be using the bike for. I've also got a cable lock kicking around so I'm hoping it would be more annoying than a casual thief wants to deal with.
> 
> The Litelock looks pretty interesting as well and I may look into that when it becomes more readily available.


That TiGr lock had a lot of hype, but there are several Youtube videos showing tests of these proving it is no more viable than most locks in keeping your bike safe from determined criminals:






Article on Bikehugger regarding this video and the response from TiGr...which sounds to me like a song-and-dance avoidance of the obvious. TiGR Lock Break Update - Bike Hugger


----------



## rogbie (Jun 20, 2011)

matuchi said:


> Does it look like it's backwards?
> 
> I'll check it out on our next ride.


That seat post is backwards.

I use a small diameter u-lock and cable to secure my rides. That said, I don't leave them out of sight for very long (not that that matters, much) and when I'm out I am usually with other cyclists. We generally lock together in a tangled random mess.

Or just find a bike that is locked like crap and park next to it.


----------



## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

To be fair to TiGr, that's a thinner lock than what I ordered. I don't think that version is available anymore. The thicker version supposedly does well against bolt cutters, but I personally won't be chopping mine.

Again, a determined thief is going to get through anything, and probably in a short amount of time. An angle grinder would be smaller than those bolt cutters in the video.


----------



## mtbxplorer (Dec 25, 2009)

Bokchoicowboy said:


> That TiGr lock had a lot of hype, but there are several Youtube videos showing tests of these proving it is no more viable than most locks in keeping your bike safe from determined criminals:


Well, "no more viable" may be the same as no less viable, from what I can tell.


----------



## DrewPowell (Mar 22, 2016)

I have been using both U-lock, for the first time seen the folding lock. Someone used this lock, easy to use it? Although I always thought that if a thief wants to steal your bike no matter what the locks do not work, even if the thief does not have to lock your bike will not be stolen.


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I found some vids of real locks/chains being cut. New york chain/pragmasis chain/pewag 2 different sizes. As you will see, there is real stuff and then there is the cosmetics, the for show only crap. Most locks only look like real locks. Lock like objects as I see it.


----------



## jrm (Jan 12, 2004)

It seems as if the folding lock when locked can be positioned so that a thief can use bolt cutters or a grinding wheel to break it. With a u lock you can get it tight enough around the frame wheel and object youre locked to so that the thief cant use a grinding wheel or bolt cutters.


----------



## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

great reading material. thanks. i have this bridge to cross.

those chains and padlocks..ouch. expensive!!


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

well how much is your bike?? Not so expensive: then right. My bike is like 3-4k € rolling any my pragmasis and squire 50cs is like 100€ so I dont give a F.


----------



## Boomchakabowwow (Sep 8, 2015)

not attacking you..just stating that they are expensive.

i like them..seem like a better option than my giant motorcycle old school cobra lock i use in my garage. which by the way was also expensive.


----------



## Bimmer74 (Jun 9, 2013)

Locks are worth it. I lost a €700 bike a couple years ago, and I'm still bitter about it. 

Now I use a 16mm ABUS Granite 58 (for motorcycles). 

Funny story: 

I bought ABUS 6500 folders for my wife and daughter's bikes (€600 or so, each). 

I was at the bike shop today with my wife, picking out a helmet for her. She saw a cheaper folder (maybe an ABUS 6000), for €50, and said something like "OMG, you spent €50 on a lock?!"

Of course, those 6500s, even discounted, were more like €80 apiece...


----------



## car bone (Apr 15, 2011)

I think my 11mm pragmasis and squire came in at about 80-90 euros. It was well worth it. Yes there is better stuff like the pewag chains and the pragmasis 13mm and the squire 65cs and so on but this is actually portable, like 2,5kg. And no one in their right mind will even consider it. and the dopers cant break it even if they wanted. Very good vids, one of those i posted above of the pragmasis 13mm chain being cut (failed) and also the thinnest pewag with 2 guys on it. and also the cuy cutting the thick pewag with an angle grinder. Really informative.


----------

