# Anyone juicing?



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

And by that, I mean legally taking testosterone, an oft prescribed medication for the older set. 

Some of the fellas I compete against take it. I however did not get the green light from doc based on the screening item about the current functioning of my junk. 

If you care to own up to it, please share your experiences as they pertain to cycling.


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## leaguerider (Sep 6, 2010)

I dong some research I get the indication that taking T will depress your bodies natural production. I also found some indication that doing high weight low rep weight lifting will help increase your natural T production.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Knocking one off every morning with the wife/girl friend/mistress elevates T levels.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

The wife is unwilling for that frequency, and she won't let me have the girlfriend and the mistress, so nothing is going to get elevated...


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

leaguerider said:


> I dong some research I get the indication that taking T will depress your bodies natural production. I also found some indication that doing high weight low rep weight lifting will help increase your natural T production.


I do hit the gym for that reason.

The guys our age that are on T (for medical reasons, of course) are coincidentally strong racers.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

tiretracks said:


> Knocking one off every morning with the wife/girl friend/mistress elevates T levels.


Agreed. That's impressive on your part.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

tiretracks said:


> Knocking one off every morning with the wife/girl friend/mistress elevates T levels.


Well which is it, the wife or the girlfriend? How about the wife THEN the girlfriend?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Crankout said:


> I do hit the gym for that reason.
> 
> The guys our age that are on T (for medical reasons, of course) are coincidentally strong racers.


And I'm SURE they all have TUEs...

Totally.

Stuff like this is the reason my license costs $25 more than it did last year.


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## Dream Plus (Feb 12, 2004)

Interesting read
Is it medicine or dope? A cat. 4 vs. the USADA - VeloNews.com

"According to the 2012 annual report, the anti-doping body received 409 requests for TUEs last year, either directly or though athletes' federations. Just 218 were granted. One hundred and forty eight required no action, meaning the application was for a permitted medication, the athlete withdrew the application after the submission, or the athlete was not actually required to obtain a TUE due to his or her competition level. Thirty-nine applications were denied, and four were listed as pending."

TUE form
http://www.usada.org/wp-content/upl...deficiency_male_hypogonadism-testosterone.pdf

When I complained to my GP at my physical that I was fatigued and recovery more slowly, she looked at me funny, but a test for Testosterone was NOT one of the tests she prescribed



Crankout said:


> And by that, I mean legally taking testosterone, an oft prescribed medication for the older set.
> 
> Some of the fellas I compete against take it. I however did not get the green light from doc based on the screening item about the current functioning of my junk.
> 
> If you care to own up to it, please share your experiences as they pertain to cycling.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Yeah. Just because a medication can be legally prescribed, doesn't mean it's legal to race having used it.

The only legal way to race while on it, and many other drugs, is to obtain a TUE. 

Otherwise, you're a drug cheat.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

I had zero idea what you were talking about when you asked about juicing. However, I mentioned taking testosterone to my doctor and he said if you increase testosterone, you greatly increase your chances for prostate cancer. I'm surprised no one mentioned that yet. You said testosterone is "an oft prescribed medication for the older set." What does "oft prescribed" mean? I don't know anyone who had it prescribed.

PS: I had prostate cancer, a radical prostatectomy and all that entails so if winning a race is important enough to increase your risk of cancer, what can I say?


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## asphalt_jesus (Aug 13, 2010)

FYI, T:E threshold for needing a TUE is 4:1. To cross that threshold, you need A LOT of testogel every day, way beyond what a legitimate prescribed dose would do. So, plenty of room for a little exogenous Test.

But, the stuff is not good. Your body detects the excess Test and shuts down it's own production. That is not good. And then there's the cancer risk, ball cancer specifically.

I might be wrong, but I think exogenous T has endocrine system consequences too. Sometimes the anti-aging clinics do a cocktail of HGH and Test. I know the HGH has endocrine consequences. That will REALLY mess with your body.

The IOC sports leave plenty of room to use Test. Do not worry about it if you are taking to prescribed levels, which should get you near 1:1 ratio. The worry is long term use. The sh!t is NOT good long term. The phrase "playing with fire" covers it pretty well.

HGH and T are great for recovery though. That's one part of the "how" behind recovering from training routines that sound extreme. Never testing positive too!


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

You cannot get a TUE for low testosterone alone, as it is usually just age related. Gotta have an underlying disease process the causes low T to get an exception. 

As Le Duke said, prescription or not, without the TUE you're just cheating


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

mudge said:


> You cannot get a TUE for low testosterone alone, as it is usually just age related. Gotta have an underlying disease process the causes low T to get an exception.
> 
> As Le Duke said, prescription or not, without the TUE you're just cheating


When does USADA test for drugs at the amateur ranks? Never I presume. I just have an inclination that some of my peers in our age bracket use the stuff and benefit significantly from it.

I'd prefer not to mess with it myself, but I felt it was a good topic to broach on this forum.


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## mudge (May 15, 2010)

Crankout said:


> When does USADA test for drugs at the amateur ranks? Never I presume. I just have an inclination that some of my peers in our age bracket use the stuff and benefit significantly from it.
> 
> I'd prefer not to mess with it myself, but I felt it was a good topic to broach on this forum.


Maybe they are, maybe they aren't. My point was that just 'cause they have a prescription doesn't mean they're in the clear. No underlying disease = no TUE = cheating.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

Rev Bubba said:


> I had zero idea what you were talking about when you asked about juicing. However, I mentioned taking testosterone to my doctor and he said if you increase testosterone, you greatly increase your chances for prostate cancer. I'm surprised no one mentioned that yet. You said testosterone is "an oft prescribed medication for the older set." What does "oft prescribed" mean? I don't know anyone who had it prescribed.
> 
> PS: I had prostate cancer, a radical prostatectomy and all that entails so if winning a race is important enough to increase your risk of cancer, what can I say?


Curiously, after all these years of testosterone usage and awareness of the androgendependence of prostate cancer, there remains no compelling evidence that TRT does, in fact, represent a true risk for prostate cancer growth. Below, I present a summary of the data regarding TRT and prostate cancer.

Menopause Doctor - Los Angeles - Bioidentical Hormones - A Natural Menopause Solution That Actually Works :: Does testosterone cause prostate cancer?


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

I have a close friend who is an avid body builder and does cycles of steroids a couple times a year. Now I am no expert but I do know a couple things from this.
1) You never do this on a forever basis. The do it for a few months and stop.
2) When you stop your body will quickly go the other way turning the excess Testoterone into estrogen which will truly mess a male up.
3) To normalize Testoterone levels men take womens fertility drugs or risk "***** tits" from their hormones being so out of whack.
4) Once you stop using the juice you will lose what you have gained and the idea is to slow this but it never stops.

I have never used this and never will. Not messing with hormones to ride faster. Not worth it.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Terranaut said:


> Now I am no expert but I do know a couple things from this.
> 1) You never do this on a forever basis. The do it for a few months and stop.
> 2) When you stop your body will quickly go the other way turning the excess Testoterone into estrogen which will truly mess a male up.
> 3) To normalize Testoterone levels men take womens fertility drugs or risk "***** tits" from their hormones being so out of whack.
> ...


Long-term treatment key to safe testosterone replacement therapy: study | CTV News

Some of the latest work contradicts the above


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

jeffscott said:


> Long-term treatment key to safe testosterone replacement therapy: study | CTV News
> 
> Some of the latest work contradicts the above


Did you see that this was funded by doctors trying to avoid class action lawsuits from testosterone treatment patients?

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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

Terranaut said:


> Did you see that this was funded by doctors trying to avoid class action lawsuits from testosterone treatment patients?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


So doctors know less than body builders?


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Not at all but doctors trying to not get sued will fund studies to say what they like.
How many contradictory studies are out there for any medical issues.
It's disgusting how many studies are out there about the same stuff with different findings.
I also made sure to reference my point of view to a body builder and not as the op stated. My original point was merely that long term hormone adjustments are in practice not a healthy lifestyle change and that in extreme cases such as body builders can cause permenent issues or illnesses.


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## armii (Jan 9, 2016)

Terranaut said:


> Not at all but doctors trying to not get sued will fund studies to say what they like.
> How many contradictory studies are out there for any medical issues.
> It's disgusting how many studies are out there about the same stuff with different findings.
> I also made sure to reference my point of view to a body builder and not as the op stated. My original point was merely that long term hormone adjustments are in practice not a healthy lifestyle change and that in extreme cases such as body builders can cause permenent issues or illnesses.


It said it may compromise a number of suits. Not that they did it to get out or them, but even if they did, if they were sure the suits were wrong, of course they would fund the research to prove they were innocent. 
Unless you are implying the research has been falsified?


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

Terranaut said:


> Did you see that this was funded by doctors trying to avoid class action lawsuits from testosterone treatment patients?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Step back from it for a minute...

The problem is low testosterone levels these levels fall has you get older for whatever reason.

Why in the world would someone think a short term course of treatment would fix this problem...

A low dose continuous injection maintaining "your normal testosterone" levels would seem to be the ideal treatment.

Also please remember all the difficulties that arose with hormone replacement therapy for women. Some really poor outcomes.


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## Oh My Sack! (Aug 21, 2006)

Crankout said:


> And by that, I mean legally taking testosterone, an oft prescribed medication for the older set.
> 
> Some of the fellas I compete against take it. I however did not get the green light from doc based on the screening item about the current functioning of my junk.
> 
> If you care to own up to it, please share your experiences as they pertain to cycling.


I'll "own up to it"

That sounds so sinister for a medical issue. :lol:

You were denied the need? How was that determined? Bloodwork determining free testosterone? You have normal levels, still?

Perhaps this whole question is based on "racing?" I came in because I saw the thread title...but I don't race. I do have to practice TRT, though. I get a kick out of some of the attitudes of some people on the subject that have lots of "opinion" but have never ever been there.


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