# Difference between Klein Attitude, Rascal, Fervor, & Pinnacle



## OregonMTB (Sep 1, 2004)

Feel free to educate me.


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## stan4bikes (May 24, 2006)

great question ...weights, strengths, weakness's (sp?) etc...why is one better than another? Maybe throw the Pulse into the mix too.


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## OregonMTB (Sep 1, 2004)

Which one was the highest end model and which was the low end?


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## alohachiimoku (Apr 7, 2006)

IMO there is no high end and low end. Depend on what kind of riding style you looking for.

by the retail 1.Adroit 2.Attitude 3.Rascal 4.Fervor or Pinnacle


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## jh4rt (Sep 5, 2007)

There were huge differences in geometry on some of them. I am trying to remember if I had a rascal or pinnacle now. Whichever it was, that bike had a HUGE wheelbase. I was considering putting a mag-21 on it, then rode one with a manitou on it.. Thing wouldn't go around corners at all, but it was an AMAZING touring machine. I ended up putting AT-3 bars on it with slicks and racks. Used to ride it from Ventura to Carpenteria & back 3 days a week....


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Adroit, Attitude, Rascal, Top Gun, Pulse had 'racnig geomery' as opposed to the slacker angles of the Pinnacle.

All had pressed in BB.

Adroit, and Attitude had pressed in headset, and some had the fat Al fork.

Adroit had boron reinforced seatstays and fork. Some 96 Adroits were really Attitudes (no, we won't discuss downtube diameters).

Topgun (1989), Rascal (1990-93) had 1" headset but behind the headset the same as Attitude. Top Gun = Rascal, just a name change.

Pulse took over from the Rascal and I believe the Fervor was a Wisconsin made 'Klein'. Might be off on this everything else above I'm sure of.

Look at the sticky at the top of the forum and look at the Klein Technical Manual for some of the geometries, etc. Lots and lots there.

There is more to say but that is off the top o' the noggin and I'm tired after a hard ride, so that's all for now.


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## holden (Jul 27, 2004)

alohachiimoku said:


> IMO there is no high end and low end.


That's a good way to put it. Another VRC'er described all the frames as being good frames.

Generally though the Adroit followed by the Attitude are the most desireable. Both had oversized tubing, oversized headset, Klein aluminum fork, and more complex stock paint. The Adroit was lighter through wider diameter, thinner tubing reinforced with boron-carbon, and some drilling.


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## kimpira (Oct 26, 2006)

Following link could help you, OregonMTB.

http://homepage.mac.com/kensosha/kensosha/documents/oldkleinidentificationjpg.htm

In this link, Klein Precision BB means pressed-in BB.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

That flowchart is a good idea, something I've been meaning to do for a long time (but didn't).

It could go a few steps further as there are other identifying characteristics such as certain models having u-brakes, etc, that could break the years down further. 88 Pinnacle had u-brakes, 89 had canti's, althought there are a few custom oddball bikes that differ. Also might have listed serial number prefixes to help id by year, pretty good link.

There is one mistake on there. It lists the 90/91/92 Attiudes by the box crown vs. unicrown fork. The majority of 91's had the uniklein unicrown fork, but it seems like many in Europe still had the mitred fork. The uniklein was out in 1991 as it's in the catalog and I had one. So it should read 90/91 and 91/92. Minor nit, but whoever did that, good on 'em.

The way that I tell the 90/91's apart is the serial number. BATxxx (xxx being alphanumeric) is for a 90 though I have heard of a few bikes with ATxxx (I sometimes wonder if the 'b' was filled in by paint or not, but that is speculation). The 91's had Axxx.


I'll be sure to bookmark that page. Thanks.

Pen-Goo-Wee-Nee


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## Guest (Sep 30, 2007)

the real difference between MC1 Adroit and MC1 Attitude are the tubes. beside the obvious 2" down tube and the carbon stuff on the seat and chain stays the Adroit got a double butted down tube, head tube, top tube and chain stays. the Attitude only has the double butted head tube the other tubes are single butted or straight. the Adroit seat tube is even triple butted wow  the Attitude seat tube only single butted. only the seat stays on the Adroit are straight. that accounts for a considerable weight saving compared to the Attitude and of course the Adroit was more expensive to produce. also the finish of the MC1 Adroit is a world apart from the MC1 Attitude. not important for the ride but another reason why it was more expensive. 

only difference between MC2 Attitude and MC2 Adroit frames are the down tubes.

Top Gun, Rascal and Fervor are like the 1991/1992 Attitude but with the standard 1" head tube. the Pulse and Pulse 2 is like the MC2 Attitude but with the standard 1 1/8" head tube.

Pinnacle and Rascal were on par in the line-up but different geometries. the Fervor is the Rascal frame but with a cheaper finish. 

Carsten


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Carsten said:


> the real difference between MC1 Adroit and MC1 Attitude are the tubes. beside the obvious 2" down tube and the carbon stuff on the seat and chain stays the Adroit got a double butted down tube, head tube, top tube and chain stays. the Attitude only has the double butted head tube the other tubes are single butted or straight. the Adroit seat tube is even triple butted wow  the Attitude seat tube only single butted. only the seat stays on the Adroit are straight. that accounts for a considerable weight saving compared to the Attitude and of course the Adroit was more expensive to produce. also the finish of the MC1 Adroit is a world apart from the MC1 Attitude. not important for the ride but another reason why it was more expensive.
> 
> only difference between MC2 Attitude and MC2 Adroit frames are the down tubes.
> 
> ...


Good info!! thankyou for sharing sir!

Do you know of any difference between the pulses?
I do not own a pulse.
Are you saying that they are all the same?
And are they really just like a MC2 attitude besides the headtube?
Same aluminum, thickness, everything?
any info at all about this would be helpfull and interesting to me.

I'd like to talk about the MC1 Adroit finish being better than an attitude also.
Do you have any specifics?
I have a gator MC1 adroit with probably the worst finish of my collection.
It has the black with white outlined script and it seems they used
very little clear coat protection.
Where it is most obvious is the protection over the klein decals.
I have seen at least one other MC1 adroit that had the same problem.
I think they might have even done it on purpose to save weight. Just a possible theory.
My adroit looks like the one pictured in the 92 catalog.
Mine has the klein printed head tube seal cover and a serial that resembles ADT000058.
Most MC1 attitudes have a very thick clear coat finish that always looks like it just came off the showroom floor.


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## Archangel (Jan 15, 2004)

jasonwa2 said:


> Good info!! thankyou for sharing sir!
> 
> Do you know of any difference between the pulses?
> I do not own a pulse.
> ...


And of course we are waiting for photos of your Gator Adroit...


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## Guest (Oct 1, 2007)

jasonwa2
>Do you know of any difference between the pulses?

only difference i know are the seat tubes on the ZipGrip Pulse frames. 
it looks like the Pulse top and down tube are a bit thinner where they meet the head tube (i can measure that if you want  ) but otherwise Attitude and Pulse frame seem to be the same. i have never measured wall thicknesses etc. but i know that the Pulse frame is lighter than the Attitude frame which likely is due to lighter paint but i'd guess also due to the lighter head tube. but again, i cannot proof that and wont strip the paint off...

>I'd like to talk about the MC1 Adroit finish being better than an attitude also.
>Do you have any specifics?

i was referring to the finish of the frame not the paint. more time was spent on the Adroit frame to smooth the welds and e.g. the brake bridge is welded onto the seat stays on front and back side, on the Attitude only on the front etc. bladibla. 
i was surprised to see the half worn-off decals on the Gator Adroit that recently was on ebay. i've only seen Adroit frames where the decals were under a solid layer of clear coat. maybe a (poor) factory repaint?

Carsten


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

Carsten said:


> i was surprised to see the half worn-off decals on the Gator Adroit that recently was on ebay.
> 
> Carsten


I'm afraid it won't be the last time...


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## KDXdog (Mar 15, 2007)

> Pulse took over from the Rascal and I believe the Fervor was a Wisconsin made 'Klein'


Fervor was Washington made, and yes, a poor man's Rascal. I think the Pulse Comp was the "Wisconsin" fervor has the press in bottom bracket, square to round chainstays, rear entry dropouts, 1" headset. I have received lots of compliments over the years on the "green nebula" paint. Looks better in person, I like it, as it can be touched up with black paint, unlike the fancy-pants Klien paint jobs!

Frame and fork cost me around 500 clams brand new, way back when. It's been a great bike, and has seen it all, racing, winter studded-tire snow bike, road riding with slicks, etc, etc. :thumbsup:


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## kimpira (Oct 26, 2006)

Hi, Pinguwin.

Thank you for letting me know the mistakes on the flowchart.

Actually I made the flowchart, so I'd like to revise it about Attitude Forks variation and Pinnacle brake device variation.

The difference of 90-91 Attitudes' serial number is very interesting for me.

best regards, 

Kimpira


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## kimpira (Oct 26, 2006)

Hi, jasonwa2

Pulse has some variation. See this link.

http://homepage.mac.com/kensosha/kensosha/documents/international/choronicle.html

(If there is some misinformation in it, please let me know.)

Do you mention original Pulse and post-Trek Pulse (includes Pulse Comp)?

If it is , there are so many differences about tubing and cable routing.

Original Pulse has Gradient tubing and internal cable routing, post-Trek Pulse has KLEIN Power Tubing and conventional cable routing.

Post-Trek Pulse are believed to be made in Waterloo Trek factory.

Original Pulse has front suspention-oriented geometry than MC-2 Attitude.

I have no correct information about tube diameter and thickness of two bikes,

They have same 6061T Alloy, Gradient tubing, so probably same thickness.
Following link is KLEIN tech manual (before 97), It contains geometry information about Adroit/Attitude and Pulse II.

http://www.kleinjapan.com/tech_guide/pre97_klein_tech_manual.pdf

(I believe original Pulse(94,95) is completely same as Pulse II(96).)

I have no good info about the finishing of MC-1 Adroit.
Your information is very interesting for me, thank you.

Best regards,

kimpira


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## jasonwa2 (Oct 28, 2004)

If i could give a kiss to everyone that contributed info to this thread... i would.
I learned many things.

and i want to continue to learn.

Anyone that knows anything.....PLEASE contribute.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Do you have any other specific questions?


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2007)

kimpira said:


> Hi, jasonwa2
> 
> Pulse has some variation. See this link.
> Best regards,
> ...


yes, you are right in that the Pulse geometry is adjusted for suspension forks. mainly a shorter head tube and some tweaking to the angles.
the later (Trek) Pulse are indeed very different but those ususally are not regarded as "true Kleins" anyways 

Carsten


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## drtunit (Sep 3, 2004)

I am curious to know how the Attitude Race with convetional fork I have fits into all of this? What makes a "Race" ?


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## Guest (Oct 2, 2007)

drtunit said:


> I am curious to know how the Attitude Race with convetional fork I have fits into all of this? What makes a "Race" ?


Comp Race and Pro designate different build kits with Comp being the lower, Race the mid and Pro the high level. in some years they had a basic model without any suffix. the frames seem to be all the same though.

they started using these terms in 1997.

Carsten


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## kingsting (Sep 18, 2007)

The Fervor and Rascal were the same frameset. The Fervor came stock with a "cheaper" paint scheme (Green Nebula), regular decals, and was available with lower end components like STX special edition and LX. An STX Fervor could be had for less than a grand when they were first introduced (late summer of 93, I believe) where the cheapest Rascal was around $1299
I remember we got four or five of these and I took them all home and put them together there.


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