# Commencal Ramones 16 vs Spawn Cycles Banshee 16...worth the difference?



## unclejemima (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm hunting a first bike for my 5 year old and 4 year old. Both kids are roughly the same size, 43-45" tall 45lbs.

I'd like to get them a good first bike...(i've seen the tanks they call bikes at box stores) but I know they will quickly outgrow them, so I don't want to spend to much.

I'm from Canada, and the Spawn Cycles Banshee gets high praise from almost everyone who talks about it. I'd like to get something with hand brakes, not coaster...so these are my 2 options.

Commencal Ramones 16 or the Spawn Cycle Banshee 16. To the best of my knowledge, they appear to be similar spec. Both have v-brakes, aluminum frame and good components. The only read difference is the Spawn Cycle is about 1-2lbs lighter...but also about $200 more.

I've found little review info on the Commencal vs the Spawn machine. Can anyone enlighten me on the quality and performance of the Commencal machine in comparison to the Spawn? 

Plus, my kids like the color of the Commencal unit and we all know how important that is lol.

Thanks!


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

unclejemima said:


> To the best of my knowledge, they appear to be similar spec. Both have v-brakes, aluminum frame and good components.


Geometry looks similar.

Big differences to me are the BMX style bars on the Spawn vs. the flat bars on the Commencal.

Also, the cranks on the Commencal are 12mm longer. Are your kids short or long legged? Or normal? I have some links saved on another computer about crank length vs kid height and/or inseam length. I'm pretty sure the cranks on both bikes would fall into the acceptable range (neither are long) but it's something to consider.

Lastly, the 20 hole hubs on Spawn make a lot of sense vs. the 28 hole on the Commencal. But I'm sure some of the previous builds here would have suggestions for how to re-lace the Commencal wheels using fewer spokes.

I don't know the differences between the Schwalbe Black Jack and the Kenda K-Rad tires on the two bikes but I'd want to know before making the decision.


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

Here are the links on crank length.

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/crank-length-kids-bikes-935849.html

Determining Crank Length for Children

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-rid...out-proper-crank-length-my-2-boys-815430.html

The theme of 10% of total height is often mention so at 43" and 45" tall, recommended crank length would be 109 mm and 114 mm respectively. If you read through other discussions, some parents prefer to go a bit shorter and others a bit longer. My boys have short legs relative to their torsos so I would tend to go on the shorter side.

Something to think about if you have a strong opinion one way or the other.

I don't have experience with either bike but if I could go back in time I would've bought the Spawn when my boys were at the 16" bike size. We'd be on our third summer of use with it right now and I think it would have been worth every penny. If the Ramones were available back then it would have been the higher BB version so the Spawn would have won out. There are also the Cleary bikes but I don't know if they're available in Canada.


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## unclejemima (Aug 3, 2010)

CJH, thanks for the great reply! Lots of info.

I was not able to find any weight specs on the Cleary bike in the 16" version...any clue?


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## b.r.h. (May 3, 2007)

The Cleary Hedgehog is 16 pounds. In my mind it is the goldilocks bike between the banshee and the commencal as far as value, weight, and features.

Unfortunately for me, the cleary is a much bigger bike than the commencal despite the same wheelsize. My little guy is about to turn 4 and is a little short for his age. We went with the Commencal based on minimum seat height, and I can get it pretty close to where he's at on his Hotrock 12" now.

The Commencal Ramones is pretty awesome to see in person. The neon yellow has a flat finish. It is a bit heavier than I'd like, but maybe I can work on that down the road.

But I should also mention I wasn't super pleased with the transaction with Commencal. They shipped me the wrong bike, and then had the customer that received my bike ship it to me. That guy didn't pack it back right, and it arrived with some gouges in the paint. [EDIT: wheels were fine per my LBS, they just have cheap tires on them that are a bit lopsided.] And I was hit with a foreign transaction fee on my credit card.


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## CJH (Apr 21, 2004)

unclejemima said:


> I was not able to find any weight specs on the Cleary bike in the 16" version...any clue?


Like BRH said, the Cleary is listed at 16 lbs by the company.

I was also going to mention that based on the CGI and real world pictures of the Cleary Hedgehog it sure appears to have a high bottom bracket.

I got an email from Cleary saying the bottom bracket is 7". But the pictures show the center line of the BB shell is above the hub line, which means a 7" high BB is not correct, unless I'm missing something obvious. Company seemed very professional and I'm sure they would have answered any concerns I had but I never did email back to clarify the BB questions I had.

I had my boys test ride some 16" and 18" BMX bikes with high bottom brackets and with their short legs I immediately ruled that style out. Just wasn't going to be ideal for the type of riding we do. But that geometry is popular and might be exactly what you're looking for.


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## b.r.h. (May 3, 2007)

For comparison purposes, here's a shot of the Ramones 16" vs a Hotrock 12"
Once I cut down the seatpost they will be pretty much the same height, and there's a spacer in the Ramones headset I can swap out to lower that as well.


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## unclejemima (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks guys.

I'm hoping the boys will last for a few years on the 16 version. I know the 4 year old will...but not sure the 5 year old. I'm tempted to go with the 20" for the 5 year old as he's within the bottom of their sizing chart.

Regardless, I will be getting 3 bikes now...a Ramones 14" for my 3 year old as well (I have 3 boys! age 3, 4 & 5) and one of the guys on another thread mentioned he got a deal by calling Commencal distribution...? I'm hoping if I buy 3 they will cut me a deal!


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## greenhill (Jul 30, 2006)

Hey guys! I think i'm somewhere here in the same boat. My son is four and is very comfortable on his 12" tykesbykes balance bike....and I want to move him to pedals without a coaster brake. Options seem to be:
1. Commencal Ramones 16
2. Ridgeback MX16
3. Cleary Headgehog
4. Banshee (too expensive) not an option.
5. Islasbike CNOC16 (usa version with coaster brake) not an option.

The top three are all around $300, and one will be chosen soon.
I personally think the commencal has the best looking geometry and I like the longer crank arm length. It sound like a couple of Commencal owners are on this thread.
-Was wandering if either/both b.r.h, or unclejemima could elaberate on personal experiences and any further insight on the choice of the Commencal. I would really appreciate it. One big hurtle the Commencal has is it's color. I like it, but my wife hates it... 
Please help guys, Do you love the Commencal? and have you been satisfied with your choice??
Thanks so much!!!


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## unclejemima (Aug 3, 2010)

greenhill. I'm going to order mine here right away... still did not pull the trigger.

Are you going to go for the 14 or 16" version? Looking at the size chart, the 14" might be just a 1/2 year or 1 year bike...

Are you located in Canada or USA?


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## greenhill (Jul 30, 2006)

16 for sure.
I'm in the USA, Maryland.
My other issue is that my son wants a "blue" bike.
-Ridgeback MX16 is blue and fits the bill. -(decent european reviews, and available in the usa... however with quite a mark-up... I presume due to shipping and customs) on eropean websites it's about $186.00... however, $300.00 state-side... 

-Cleary- I hear is coming out with a "blue" hedgehog in June. In the running, but just does'nt look like a "Kids" bike. something looks off about it... kid's appear stretched out on it... 

But why is the Commencal just so freak'n yellow!!?? 
I'm probably about a month or so away from ordering. but I plan to make a decision soon.
I really like the geo of the Commencal with the addition of the longer crank arms. It really does look like the perfect bike. My hurtle truly is the color as silly as that sounds. The other issue the Commencal has is that there is very little user comments and user reviews on the web. Not even any recent vids or pics of kids riding them (the 16 anyway)...
Let me know how it goes.
Thanks!!


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

We've had our 4.5 year old on the 2015 Ramones for a few months now. His progression was run bike, 12" hotrock, 14" isla, 16" hotrock and now the Ramones. First off, the color is awesome for visibility, once your wife see's it at dusk she will be happy.

No problems or issues with the bike so far and it gets ridden a lot. Was concerned about pedaling it uphill but he's jamming on it. I still need to work out the gear inches so I can compare with own dj bike set up of 32x16.

I do like the Spawn bikes and would have gone this route if the Commencal deal hadn't happened. We will look at the Spawns again on our next Canada trip and with the strong dollar if you are US and can pick up in Canada is very tempting. He did ride a 14" spawn last year back to back with is Isla 14" and liked his Isla better.

Regarding the brakes, at 4 I think he will be able to grab them okay, under 4 (and certainly over 4 too) I've seen some scary moments from kids not being able to stop. Many people are anti-coaster brake but from my experience they are safer.

He's about 39" tall, very short for his age. Here's some video of him cranking up a decent grade, he's really been blowing me away how good with his climbing ability lately. He was jumping his Hotrock pretty good on the big jumps but for some reason he's not getting air or going as fast downhill on the Ramones, may be the hand brakes? He's is bunny hopping good and launching off random bumps and curbs though.

Anyway, here is some video, I've got more plus photos and can answer any specific questions.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

A couple more things, 14 vs. 16. Although his 14 isla is a much nicer bike than the 16 hotrock once he got on that 16 and experienced the bigger faster wheels it was all over for the 14. I think we almost got a year out of the 14 and then had a hard time finding a buyer for it.

Color. Our boy's favorite color is orange, we showed him the Cleary and the Spawn color choices and he did not make a choice based on color. We thought for sure we would be spraying the Ramones but once we saw how visible it is and considering how much street evening riding he does, we were happy.


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## greenhill (Jul 30, 2006)

Thank You airwreck!! I love this community. The information is extremely helpful.. I'm with you about the high visability of the yellow... that's is a great consideration... The gearing seems funky on the Cleary and I've read other posts from other dad's about frustration with low gearing.., which is what i'm afraid of. Your kid looks GREAT pedaling that commencal!!! Thank you for the vid.
So you are truly happy with the quality of the Commencal?? What do you think of the gearing too low? too high? just right? seems well built? Wheel hubs spin free? Is the reach of the handbrakes adjustable? and if not do they look like they are made for kids (short reach)??
Was there anything you had to "tweak" right out of the box, or was everything truly good to go? 
I think I'm narrowing down between the Ridgeback MX16, and the Commencal 16...
I'm definately leaning Commencal though.... just looks the part.
You made an interesting comment on the comparison with of the downhill speed and jumping between the hotrocks and the commencal... you may be right, maybe the feel of the coaster brake gives a little more confidence?? and not having it, gives caution?
I truly think if the Islabike CNOC 16 didn't have the coaster brake issue in the US, I would buy it... Islabikes seems like the holy grail of kids bikes in europe.. just looking at the picture of that bike the dimensions look perfect... I emailed the company and asked why, and it has something to do with complying with our bike laws, oh well. 
Ridgeback 36T Chainring, 16 cog, and 127mm arms
Commencal 32T Chainring, 16 cog, and 114mm arms
Cleary 25T Chainring, 16 cog, and 102mm arms.

Thanks again!


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

greenhill said:


> The gearing seems funky on the Cleary and I've read other posts from other dad's about frustration with low gearing


Present!

FWIW, Cleary has told me they are going to start shipping the Hedgehogs with a 14t cog and the new hub they are spec'ing will accept something smaller, though they haven't confirmed just how small of a cog will fit. You can also buy Spawn's 102 mm cranks a la carte. They ship with a 28t ring which I thought was the largest you could go on 64 BCD, but apparently Blackspire and Absoluteblack make 30t rings that fit 64 BCD spiders:

Blackspire SuperPro Chainring M980 64 BCD | Blackspire
XX1 STYLE - Shimano

As far as kids appearing "stretched out" on the Cleary, personally I think the bike just puts them in a proper athletic riding position. I think people get so used to seeing kids in the upright cramped cockpits on most kid bikes that a proper riding position looks strange.

I hadn't seen the Ridgeback before, but the quill stem and long cranks would be deal breakers for me.

ETA: In regards to the Banshee being too expensive, remember that the prices on Spawn's website are in Canadian pesos. The exchange rate is currently about 0.82, so the list price on the Banshee is actually about $370 USD.


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## b.r.h. (May 3, 2007)

My kid doesn't have his Ramones yet (birthday isn't for another couple of weeks). We were concerned he would reject the bike based on color. Everything has to be green for him. We even looked into powder coating. But I took a risk and showed him a picture of the Ramones online, and he couldn't stop talking about the awesome yellow bike. So problem solved there. I wouldn't worry about the color, it really is a nice looking bike.

As far as out of the box, you will probably need to adjust the brakes (reach and at the wheel). And the wheels seem out of true, so I'm taking it to a shop tonight to have it checked out. Also they probably need grease.

Random note: the Ramones came with front and rear lights, a bell, and two seat posts. Not sure what the difference is in the seatposts, except one is matte, the other shiny.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

I bought the Ramones 16 for my 3 year old (he's big for 3). I cut down the seat post about 1" to give him a little more confidence. He picked up the hand brakes in about 30 seconds. I've only had him ride on flat ground at this point, so I'll be interested in seeing if he can still pedal an incline. I like everything about the bike except the weight, but he seems to manage fine. I'm excited to watch him progress on it this summer. 

He absolutely loves it.

I also am not sure why they included two seat posts...


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