# Which Group Set?



## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

So I picked up one of the Nashbar X frames and I want to keep things cheap and easy (I'm that way sometimes). Since this is a cross bike, I'm torn between going with a road group set or a mountain group set. The bike will primarily be used on pavement with the occasional excursion on mountain fire roads (I'm thinking some of the ski resort fire/service roads in the summer).

I loooked for a few hours last night and I can find a ton of road kits, and a ton of mountain kits but no real 'cross' oriented kits :madman: 

I started building up a set (Sugino Swiss Cross Crank, SRAM cassette, etc.) but then my head started to hurt mostly because I was making something into rocket science that shouldn't be, and it was running up the tab pretty quickly. I don't want to spend that much on a $100 bike frame.

So this morning, I woke up, refreshed, and was thinking....should I go with a Shimano 105 group set (for about $700) and change the chain rings on the crank - possibly change out the cassette as well or should I go with a Shimano XT Groupset for about the same price? Does anyone know of any "cross kits" or "cross groups" out there? Looks like Nashbar used to have one but it's not listed anymore.


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

Most people think they can piece a bike together cheaper than buying a Pre-built bike from a manufacturer. You Really can't and seen with the on going thread about Disc/Cross. Unless you ebay your little heart out.

If you want something Different thats fine have at it. I still find its better to buy a complete change what you want and sell what you don't want.

But now that you bought a $100 Frame. Piece meal what you can, Tektro Cantis are cheap and good. Get tiagra 9 Speed shifters. Mix that with mountain parts. 

If you go 105 its a 10 speed FRT/REAR Derailleur Crank with 10 Speed Rings Sifters and cassette. You also might want to look at Sram Rival. If you want 10 speed.

I start with a good frame that fits my Geometry, Then I get a GOOD Wheelset.


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## Solomon76 (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm somewhat agree with Normbilt. If you are looking to keep things "cheap and easy" as you put it, buy prebuilt is the way to go. However, building yourself will be fun and give you a sense of accomplishment that you wouldn't get buy going to a store and buying a bike. There are deals to be had; it just takes patience and determination. If you have buddies with bikes they built themselves or buddies that suffer from upgrade-itis, I can almost guarantee that they have spare parts lying around. Try hitting them up. Other than that, welcome to the club. I have a Nashbar X Frame on order myself. There are a few other guys on the board with them also. I guess we're an unofficial club.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Umm... at the risk of reviving a certain dead horse for further flogging, what exactly do you mean by a "cross group"?

If you`re just talking about a nice, sensible buildup for commuting and JRA, what Normbilt and Solomon said. And you`ll probably get some good tips from CommuterBoy`s and HydroGeek`s recent build threads- they both just finished really creative builds and each posted a detailed thread on how they went about it- both threads are still on the first page of the forum, so should be easy to find. Have fun with it, whatever you do.


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## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

rodar y rodar said:


> Umm... at the risk of reviving a certain dead horse for further flogging, what exactly do you mean by a "cross group"?


Basically looking for a 11-34 rear hub (SRAM or Shimano XT/XTR) to go along with a two ring crank set (ideally 48-34t). I want drop bar levers for brakes and shifters.

You can get a mountain set with the rear hub option but it comes with flat bar/mountain shifters and a three ring set....or you can get a two ring crank set on a road bike group but the rear cassette is geared a little higher (as well as the front cranks).


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## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

OK - so I found ONE store that carries kits today while at lunch....

http://cyclocrossworld.stores.yahoo.net/buildkits.html


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*You could certianly do better picking your own build*

~$1400 for a 105 build kit is a bit insane. I wouldn't pay $1000 for a complete bike built with 105


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Normbilt said:


> Most people think they can piece a bike together cheaper than buying a Pre-built bike from a manufacturer. You Really can't and seen with the on going thread about Disc/Cross. Unless you ebay your little heart out.


I am one of those people, and I disagree. I just built a hardtail 29er with the parts spec of the high end model, for cheaper than the low end model from the manufacturer (Performance access XCL). If you shop the sales it's very possible to do it cheaper than buying the complete bike. The only used part I put on the build was the fork, which I scored on Craigslist. Pricepoint, Nashbar, Performance, Jenson... there is always a deal going on. Shop the sales and it's easy.

Anyway, I also have the X frame from Nashbar... mine has a curious hodgepodge of mountain and road parts. It is much easier to mix and match than most people think. I have a road double crankset up front (34/50) and a shimano 8 speed mountain cassette out back. I use an 8 speed chain, and have no isues with that set-up. Rear derailleur is a shimano XT. I use a shimano LX trigger shifter for the rear. I'm currently using bullhorn bars, but I have had this shifter mounted on drop bars before that...you can make it work. I don't have a front derailleur currently, but you can either use a road one, or use a mountian one and adjust the limit screw to basically make it compatible with a double chainring.
I'd advise against buying a 'group' and just get beefy mountian stuff where you want it, road stuff where you're trying to shave weight/gain some gearing. This also makes it easier to build for less money.


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## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

Shayne said:


> ~$1400 for a 105 build kit is a bit insane. I wouldn't pay $1000 for a complete bike built with 105


My thoughts EXACTLY...which is why I'm asking for help in case anyone has seen anything else out there :thumbsup:


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## Crack Monkey (Sep 25, 2006)

105, or even Tiagra, w/ a compact crank should do fine. Not sure if you can get a complete kit w/ cantis? V-brakes won't work with drop levers (not without some fiddling anyway). Road calipers would work fine, but might not have clearance for fat tires.

No need for a (potentially) heavier mtn group, unless you're set on discs, or really need a granny gear.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

V-brakes will work with drop levers, discs will work with a road group. If it's a lever and it's pulling on a cable, you can make it work with whatever brake you want. The only thing I haven't pulled off with success yet is a hydraulic brake with road levers. But I haven't really tried. That's next.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

Magura made hydraulic road levers in the past
And there is a new company making a hydraulic road set but they're not on the market yet.


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## Normbilt (Jan 17, 2004)

Raleigh RX 1.0 $1250.00

Tell Me you can Build a Bike Better than this For Less?

https://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/road/rx1/


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

I can build a bike better than that for less.


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## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

It's not always about building a "better" bike - sometimes it's about building a bike that meets your requirements.

Here's the problem with the Raleigh (from my perspective)...

1) It doesn't meet my gearing requirement. It's a 36/46 chainring with a 12-27 cassette. By building, you can create the right gearing for you. Here's Sheldon Brown's Gain Ratio Calculator for reference. In my instance, I want a 11 - 34 cassette with a 48/34 chain ring and a 175mm crank for climbing hills, but I also want reasonable performance out of the bike for going a decent speed on the road.

Here's the gain ratio on the Raleigh (running a 170 crank, 32c tires)

46 36

7.8 6.1 
7.2 5.6 
6.7 5.2 
6.2 4.9 
5.8 4.6 
5.5 4.3 
4.9 3.8 
4.4 3.5 
3.9 3.0 
3.5 2.7

Here's what I'd like (running a 175 crank and 38c tires)

48 34

8.7 6.1 
7.3 5.2 
6.3 4.5 
5.6 4.0 
5.0 3.5 
4.5 3.2 
4.1 2.9 
3.8 2.7 
3.4 2.4 
2.8 2.0

To me, that equals BETTER PERFORMANCE both at the top end and at the bottom end - whether I'm riding on the road or on the trail.

The maximum reasonably sizes tire you can put on a Raleigh is a 35c, and to do what I'm doing you'd have to change out the crank, chain ring, rear cassette - on top of the purchase price.

2) It comes with 700x32c tires - for my purposes, I want thicker tires to deal with gravel...37c at minimum with enough clearance for fenders

3) It's a 28 hole rim. I'm a fat guy - I want a stronger wheel and would prefer something with a bit more spokes so I can bump into pot holes and rocks on the trail and not worry about bending the rims.

4) The Raleigh has cantilever brakes....I have a commuter with Paul Neo Retro cantilever brakes....as mentioned, I want to ride up gravel mountain roads at ski resorts, and ride back down them. I'd like to use cable disc brakes in that I've personally experienced rims getting too hot while riding down big hills. Also, while I've never had trouble with cantis in rain, I'd like to experience what all the hubbub is about with relation to using disc brakes on a commuter.

Don't get me wrong, the Raleigh is a nice bike, but it's not the right bike for me. I went with the Nashbar X Frame because I wanted a beater - something reasonable (105 or XT type drive train) that meets my tire requirements. The brake thing is just a bonus.

Here in Colorado we have a ride called the Fat Tire Classic that benefits the Red Cross at Winter Park Ski Resort. I've always done it on a mountain bike - there's no reason I shouldn't be able to do that same ride (with a couple of singletrack exceptions that are options on the ride) on a cyclocross bike. I'd like to try it!

I'm not sure I can beat $1,250 - I might and might not, but I'm definitely sure I'll be getting what I want and what meets MY requirements.


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

^^ Truth. and nice choice getting the Nashbar frame. You're gonna love this thing.


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## Gary the No-Trash Cougar (Oct 14, 2008)

CX bikes are typically geared like a hardtail race bike, higher than a recreational bike but lower than a road bike. I have to agree with CB, if you have the patience and you know what you want you can easily piece together a group set of exactly the parts you want and you won't necessarily need to spend $700 or $1200 or whatever. For the type of riding you plan on doing and your budgetary concerns, you should be able to pick some quality budget parts from Nashbar, Jenson and other places online (they don't necessarily need to be high end used eBay finds).

If I were you, I'd go with a trekking crankset like 48-36-26 and a wide range mountain cassette like 11-34. This would give you a good mix of higher gears for the road with plenty of lower gears left for your fire road and hill climbs.


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## ae111black (Dec 27, 2008)

I'd go this route personally.................http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45682&eid=4350&menuItemId=9256


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Presta Pusher said:


> It's not always about building a "better" bike - sometimes it's about building a bike that meets your requirements.


Yay!

Okay, so you already have the frame and that`s all? Just to make sure. It sounds like you`re on to a very useful bike and the 11-34 with 34/48 is very doable. If you`re going with drop bars, the shifter options you have (talking styles, not levels) are "brifters", bar ends, or down tube mounted (if you have bosses for DT shifters on your frame). With brifters, you`ll need a Match Maker to use mechanical discs or V-brakes, you can use side pulls or straddle cantis directly, no way I know of to use hydraulic discs. The Match Makers get somewhat mixed reviews, but my understanding (never used them personally) is that most people are pretty happy with them. If you don`t use brifters, you can get brake levers for dropbars that work with disc and V or levers that work with straddle cantis and sidepull.

Shifter/derailler compatibility for Shimano is pretty simple. Any Shimano shifter will work with any Shimano rear derailler, STI (brifter) for the front requires a "road" front derailler. Mountain RDs work perfectly with road cassettes, but road RDs won`t have the capacity for a 32t or 34t sprocket on your cassette. If you have index only shifter for the rear, you need to match the number of sprockets on your cassette to the "speeds" of your shifter- again, any RD will work for you. Even though you need a road FD with your indexed road shifter, you can use that Tiagra or Ultegra, or whatever road derailler with a mountain crankset if you want, or you can use it with road cranks. 34/48 is considered a "compact double" road crank. If you use brifters with it, I think the newer ones now specify for double or trpile crank- older brifters worked for either. If you chose to use bar end or downtube shifters, your options get simpler and your checking account gets off much easier. Front shifters for those styles are freiction only, so they work with any FD under the sun- mountain or road, double or triple, Shimano, Campy, Simplex- they just don`t care.

For your wheels, the only thing you need to watch as far as compatibility goes is the rear dropout width. Oh, and disc mounts of course, if you want to go that way. Modern road hubs use 130mm rear spacing and modern mtb hubs use 135mm, very few bikes use anything other than 100mm in front. I don`t know what spacing your frame has, but you can measure it yourself with a metric ruler.


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## hydrogeek (Feb 20, 2006)

*Fyi*

The Nashbar X frame is 130mm rear spacing. Disc hub choices are limited to Novatec, Velocity, Chris King, and DT Swiss in my research. I went the cheapest route and bought the Novatec hubs off ebay from a guy in Hong Kong who gave me good customer service. The hubs were $100 + $20 express shipping. I like to build my own wheels so that was the route that I went. Sometimes you can pick up wheelsets on ebay with most that I have seen falling in the $200 to $350 range. BTW I built a 1,800 gram disc wheelset with 29er rims with Wheelsmith DB spokes for $268.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

Hydrogeek, didn`t you and CB end up with different rear spacings? Usefull info on 130m disc hubs, but probably a good idea to measure the dropouts.


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## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

Well, sounds like I got my answer...there really isn't a group or kit that will fit my requirements 

Started doing some clicking tonight and making some decisions. I'm going to skip the disc brakes.

So far I've got:

Frame
bottom bracket 
rear cassette (Shimano XT 11-34)
Set of wheels (36 spoke 14 gauge 105 hubs)
Headset
Seat Post
Handlebar (going with a flat bar instead of drops)
stem
tubes
tires
seat (I have a Brooks saddle I'm not using)
brake levers (had them sitting around - why I went with the flat bar option)

I've got $463 into the build so far (including shipping/sales tax).

I'm going to go with a carbon fork, XT front/rear derailleur, and this Sugino crank set. No decision on brakes or shifters yet but I noticed XT shifters aren't as pricey as regular road bike shifters on the brake levers (another reason I went with a flat bar).

Thanks for everyone's help.


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## rodar y rodar (Jul 21, 2006)

*Gorgeous!*

If I didn`t already have a wife, I`d probably marry a set of Sugino crankarms with that old castle logo.








Or maybe a set of old six- bolt Cycloturistes. Hmmm... 

A few comments- be sure to check out the dropout spacing on your frame before you order the hubs/wheels. Your frame is aluminum, isn`t it? Not supposed to fudge it with aluminum. If you have 130mm, the 105s will do the trick for you. If you have 135, I think LX is the straight across equivalent, though Deore or XT will be just dandy. Also, apparently a little better sealed.

Double check the front derailler/shifter/crank compatibility. MTB shifters have issues with road triple deraillers, but it seems to me people make them work with road doubles. If there`s a problem there, you might be able to use an MTB front derailler with those beautiful Suginos. And now there are double-specific mtb cranks- no idea what FDs they`re supposed to use. Hopefully, somebody here will know for sure, otherwise I`d try the "Tooltime" or "Drivetrain" subforums.

The build you`re looking at should end you up with a nice light bike with lots of versatility at a reasonable price.


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## Presta Pusher (Feb 10, 2010)

The problem is constantly second guessing yourself  

The bike has a 130mm rear which is why I went with the 105 hubs. I kinda' wanted the disc brakes but there aren't many options out there and I wanted to keep it simple.

I may still go with drops and bar end shifters....I'm not married - and commitment is a problem sometimes for me


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## CommuterBoy (Oct 4, 2007)

Rodar, my X frame is a couple years old...apparently they switched manufacturers, or design, or something... becuase the new ones are 130mm rear spacing and the older ones are 135. Mine is 135 and I was able to just use a set of 29er wheels and bolt up disc brakes. The new frames make it more of a challenge. 

Nice parts list Presta! That's going to be another unique creation with the flat bar...looking forward to it. Square tapered BB? old school, baby. You wound up with a nice mix for a drivetrain. Very cool.


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