# HELP!!....Advice on Fork ...for Ventana Tandem



## ekloco (Apr 20, 2007)

I need HELP!!. Most of the information on the Web for tandem rated forks is pretty outdated.

A little background information:

Bike: Ventana Tandem 5" rear travel 145 mm rear hub spacing 72 head tube angle

Captain plus Stoker 300 pounds

Location: Santa Fe NM high alpine plus desert flatlands

Use: Mostly advanced XC riding.. plus...Once in a while... touring with camping gear (45 lbs max extra gear)

I have a bike shop Buddy who says he can get a Risse Racing Trixxy or Champ on a killer good deal..... but the reviews are poor and the Champ weighs 11 pounds plus.

My own research says that the Marzocchi 66 SL ATA (air).... OR the Marzocchi 66 ETA (coil) are my best choice. ( 5.8 lbs)

I looked at the Fox 36 Talas and Vanilla but somehow didn't get that they'd be stout enough.

What about the Rockshox Lyric? Maverick DUC 32?

MY PROBLEM IS ..... I want a stout downhill fork that has some sort of a lockout on it for climbing uphill.... a contradiction in terms..... all tandems are hell on the climbs and having some sort of way to counteract the " Bob" factor would be great.

I prefer a single crown fork but would just as easily go with a triple crown.

What are the Clydesdales using?

 I HAVE ALREADY checked with Veantana and MTB Tandems.com they were helpful but I thought I would consult the Almighty Forum.

Thanks E K Loco


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## Tony (Jan 20, 2004)

Fox 36 TALUS is not all that beefy in practice... their damping is not up to the task in my experience. I think the Lyric or Totem would be excellent choices in addition to the Marz. The Rock Shox are available with Two-Step air travel adjust and the mission control damping is super-tunable.


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## tscheezy (Dec 19, 2003)

ekloco said:


> Bike: Ventana Tandem 5" rear travel
> 
> Captain plus Stoker 300 pounds
> 
> ...


Forget the DUC32 on that rig. Just forget it. Both the current Zokes you indicated are 180mm travel forks, and you want stout, so I would substitute the Rockshox Totem for the Lyrik. The Lyrik is also a nice, solid fork, but the Totem is burlier by a good measure. I would wonder about a Lyrik under 300 pounds of rider plus another 50 or so in gear. Yow. A 180mm fork like the Totem is going to be tall on there though, so are you sure you want that kind of height? The good news is the Totem 2-step can be set at either 180 or 135 mm of travel, and with the Floodgate you can dial in as much bob-squashing platform you want. That would be the benefit over the Zokes, neither of which have real lockouts or platforms (though the ETA is basically a lock-down).

If you want to drop some coin, and get a really skookum fork, look at the Totem 2-step. I would check to see if there is an upper air pressure limit on those and ask Rockshox if it can handle the pressures 350# of bike&rider&gear will demand. You won't find a coil spring for those duties anyway, I bet.


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## ekloco (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks for the info....I have zero experience with heavy duty eqiup....I'm an X-C weight weenie dog....So your advice is golden.

I haven't seriously researched Rockshox but it looks like I need to...I'll put a man on it right away....focus on the TOTEM


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## Hardtails Are Better (May 4, 2005)

I think a Rock Shox Lyric coil, with U-Turn would be a good choice. Tough, stiff, nice fork, and you can drop the front end to climb. Getting a heavy enough spring might be an issue though.

You might or might not have seen this already, but there are some options to think about here: http://www.mtbtandems.com/Forks.html The Z.1 Freeride ETA sounds like it would fit the bill quite well.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

ekloco said:


> My own research says that the Marzocchi 66 SL ATA (air).... OR the Marzocchi 66 ETA (coil) are my best choice. ( 5.8 lbs)


Ended up replacing a 2004 Z1 SL with a new 2007 66SL and it has transformed the bike from one heck of a fun ride to damn why did I not do this sooner type of a question. Would put the 66 SL ATA up front and forget about it. (Hate to say it , but I have ridden damn near everything out there and this is the best fork I've ever been on) the 140-180 mm of adjustment is really nice you can turn it down to play with the XC racers or slack it out and just go out and play.


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## TIGMAN (Nov 18, 2004)

crux said:


> Ended up replacing a 2004 Z1 SL with a new 2007 66SL and it has transformed the bike from one heck of a fun ride to damn why did I not do this sooner type of a question. Would put the 66 SL ATA up front and forget about it. (Hate to say it , but I have ridden damn near everything out there and this is the best fork I've ever been on) the 140-180 mm of adjustment is really nice you can turn it down to play with the XC racers or slack it out and just go out and play.


  Is the 66 SL ATA alot easier to tune up than the old Z1 SLs ? I found my old Z1 SL 130 to be a real pain to get to perform right and traded up for the coil version Z1 which felt much nicer after a spring swap and oil change & level adjustment ! In other words is the 66SL much improved over the earlier SL forks ? Thanks ! TIG.


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

*Long Travel Fork...Really?*

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't Ventana recommend a 100mm travel fork for their FS Tandem?

I know your looking for stout, but putting a 180mm fork on this frame is going to seriously alter how the bike rides. I'd be surprised if you'd be able to climb that well...lock-out or not with the front end all chopper'd out.

White Brothers actually makes a tandem specific dual crown 100mm fork in 20mm thru-axle.

http://www.whitebrotherscycling.com/product-tmrc.php?specs=magic100t

It's tuned specifically for tandems, and while it lacks a lock-out, it does have a threshold adjustment.

:thumbsup:


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## ekloco (Apr 20, 2007)

*Thanks for the Advice... A Little More Info..*

Yo it's E.K. Loco ...a.k.a. the original poster.... (poster child)

Yes, I did e-mail Alex at MTBTandems.com and yes, he did recommend the White brothers Magic 100.... as well as the Marzocchi 66 SL ATA

As far as I know White Brothers are the only manufacturer that actually has a specific tandem fork.... no one else will claim to do so because of liability reasons..... although there are quite a few burly forks that are up to task.

The one and only reason that I do not like the White Brothers fork is because it only has 100 mm of travel..... I want to have 5 inches of travel in the rear... therefore... 5 to 6 inches of travel in the front sounds mighty fine to me.

I talked to Sherman (the man) at Ventana ...he sez...

Because of the extra weight on a tandem you lose 25 to 30% to sag.... therefore, extra travel is a good thing

Extra travel raises stand over height (compensated for with a smaller frame)

Also when you raise any bike with extra travel you lose what is called " bottom bracket drop".... which is.... well.. draw a imaginary line between the wheel hubs..... if your bottom bracket is below that... then... your bike handles good.... bottom bracket above that line... your bike handles not so good.....ANYWAY Sherman sez... not a big deal on tandems.... they are a different beast....... MTBTandem.com has a photo of a tandem with 7" travel in the front and 6" travel in the rear.... go figure.

Extra for travel up front does not necessarily "Chopper Out" a tandem because the wheelbase is 72 inches long (and besides the head tube angle on a Ventana is 72° ....just for the record....Ellsworth Witness 70° ) Hmmmmm..... a mega-monster triple crown downhill with 12 inches of travel??? Maybe Not!!

My bottom line is.... I would like to match the 5 inches in the back.... with 5" up front.... going up to 6 " is okay...... and if I flip a switch and it happens to slack out to 7" on a rocky downhill.... Oh Well,Rats !!!

The only negative thing that Sherman had to say about big travel tandems is ..... that they turn into heavy monster pig bikes..... and that the more standard 4" travel front and rear can be built a little lighter and still have some nimble-ness. I figure 5" front and rear would be a beautiful thing and give my Stoker a little bit more cush....5"or 6"..pushing it.. 7" up front I can live with.


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## Olga_icannot (Apr 5, 2007)

*My experiences*

Hey ekloco,
I also have a ECDM. My stoker and i are a bit lighter than you but i have found the 36 to be up to the task strength wise, just not performance wise. The fork feels harsh under all conditions and the bushings wear out very quickly. I haven't ridden the fork on a single bike so it may be a great for general use but it does not stand up to a tandem that actually heads off road. A couple of other thoughts, there is no difference in handling between 100mm travel and 160mm travel. I can turn the talas up and down all day and the handling is great either way (though standover does get tight at 160mm when trying to get the stoker remounted on an uneven trail surface).

I tried a regular z-1 at 130mm travel for a while. The durability was better but the stiffness wasn't as good, it was a little scary as the front wheel would definitely lag behind steering inputs.

I tried a 100mm marzocchi dj1 and the strength and durability were better (it was a 2003 with steel stanchions) but again the ride was terrible.

I run an '07 66sl on another bike (it won't fit the tandem as it has a 1.5 steerer). The ride is great, super tunable, probably all the way up to a 300lb team. However, the tunability could be it's downfall, it takes quite a while to get it just right. It also lacks a lockout. Marzocchi had quality problems with the initial production runs but most of those seem to be settled (look in this forum for some quite detailed discussions about tuning and issues with this fork). My concern would be running a 180mm, 1 1/8", single crown fork on the tandem. That would be some serious head tube and steerer tube stress.

I haven't tried any of the rock shox forks, for too many years they made too many crappy forks and i haven't recovered yet, even if they have.

My money for next year is going to be on the new marzocchi 55 series forks. 35mm stanchions, 125-165mm travel, maxle style through axle, and a pretty effective lock out (TST). All with marzocchi's ease of servicing. If they make a 1.5" version i'm considering selling my tandem and having sherwood make me a new one with a 1.5 head tube.

Sorry for the long email, i hope there is some useful information in here somewhere.


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## ekloco (Apr 20, 2007)

*Thinking of Going.. Wotan*

I want to thank everybody for the good advice. This is my first experience using the forum it's been very very good.

I've been doing more detective work trying to figure out this full suspension tandem fork dilemma.

I got the word from Ventana and also from Alex at MTBTandem.com than 180 mm of fork travel is not a good thing. It does " Chopper-out" things a little bit and the leverage makes for some killer stress on the frame.

Soooooo...... my three requirements are #1 burly downhill #2 somewhat locked out climber #3 less than 7 inches of travel

The Magura "Wotan" is #1 slightly less than than super burly downhill, but it's a big single crown with 36 mm stanchions #2 somewhat locks out on the climb with its Albert (floodgate) feature #3 is adjustable between 5" and 6.5"

I am waiting to hear if it is actually tandem approved by Magura, the initial talks over the phone with their technicians sound positive..... even if it's not, it sounds like it's worth the gamble.

I thought I'd add another piece of my research just for the fun of it. I looked into the Hanebrink " Ride " It is just a straight shock fork....no extra tuning features..... no frills.... 5 inches of travel...... fairly beefy..... affordable price.

Keep those cards and letters coming,

Thanks, E. K. Loco

Quote: " Winners never quit..... and Quitters never win... but.... if you never win and you never quit..... that's just plain stupid! "


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## Jon Edwards (Aug 20, 2004)

A couple of friends of mine have an ECDM. They run 'zocchi 888's...

Seems to do the job, there's *really* very little that they won't attempt on it, uphill or down. The only issue is that it makes the front standover VERY high, but then the pilot is a lanky geezer, so not an issue.

Some pics here

http://tandemonium.fotopic.net/c615688.html


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## sparrow (Dec 30, 2003)

Another little data point, our 5" ECdM has had a variety of forks up front, and the DH/Freeride movement has been kind to offroad tandems! Better wheels, brakes, forks, etc, for certain. I've found generally to have better luck using an air fork, or a fork with Air assist type spring tuning. Nice to have the progressive spring rate to help against bottoming too often. And the new range of forks with compression damping, low and high speed, are great, Lyric, Totem, 36, etc. You can indeed dial it. The Totem 2 step air at 135mm setting would be a good match, 180 is a bit high, really, but you can mess with that. Ummm, what else, oh, try a Hopey Steering damper up front, a fine product for tandems! 

And steer the heck away from that Maverick for a tandem!


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## mtnbiker72 (Jan 22, 2007)

Hey, check this site out!!!!

http://www.mtbtandems.com/componentsb.html

Looks like they have some options beyond the White Bros fork


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## elsievo (Sep 13, 2005)

Alex Nutt at Mtbtandems is a good source of info. We got an ATC 5in for our Cannondale works real well, easy to maintain. But then again we're not a real agressive team which is why when we upgraded to the ECdM we can get away with the DUC 32. I would agree with a previous post and not recommend this one if you are going to do some real aggressive off road riding. I think you will find if you get a longer travel fork than a 6 inch on the Ventana you'll find the handling a bit sluggish as well as the higher stand over.
You might also check out the Doube Forte Yahoo group (dedicated totally to mtn tandems.) Great group of knowledgeable people.


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