# Bass Ackwards, please FATTEN ME UP!



## musikron (Jan 16, 2013)

Not really finding the info I need anywhere, so lets see what y'all have to say about it.

The issue is I am a rail, 6'3" 140lbs and I struggle to stay at a healthy weight. In addition I have no stamina, nor body fat reserves, I quickly gas out and start burning muscle. So what are your favorite "power foods"? What packs the absolute best most fuel per bite, yet also is palatable?

I have to do something here, and every supposed nutritionist I speak with puts me on some stupid cleansing diet that sends me to the hospital. So fatten me up, but in a healthy way. ( I can't eat 6 cheesecakes a day)


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## Gerth (Aug 17, 2013)

Coming from the opposite end of the spectrum all I can suggest is to eat what I have to stay away from and that is carbs. Carbo load


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Go get yourself some whey protein for during the day, and casein protein for at night before bed. Have a whey drink in between meals and definitely after a workout. Have casein and/or cottage cheese before bed. Eat at a 4 to 1 ratio carbs protein. Get some big bowls and big spoons and just eat more and more often. 
As far as exercise, do whole body moves like dead lifts and squats. 
Check out Lee Hayward's Total Fitness Bodybuilding Blog , a fellow hardgainer, for some great free info.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Start with a thorough medical check up.


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## Phinox (Jul 13, 2013)

if you want to fatten up eat DONUTS lots of carbs fat and sugar.


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## sfgiantsfan (Dec 20, 2010)

Avocados, super food and lots of good fat


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

See a reputable nutritionist/doctor.

Shoveling tons of junk down your throat probably isn't the answer.


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## Christopher98 (Jun 18, 2011)

A hearty Peanut Butter and Jelly is a good way. You get the omega 3's of peanut butter, protein and quite a few calories..Combine it with good whole grain bread (watch for refined sugars) and that is a healthy, hearty additional amount of calories.


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## crit_boy (Jul 31, 2007)

musikron said:


> every supposed nutritionist I speak with


You need to speak with a medical professional - dietitian with a certification in sports nutrition.

Try here to start.

A nutritionist is not necessarily a person with medical training. A nutritionist is a person holding themselves out as having nutrition knowledge.

A registered dietitian is a medical professional with at least a bachelor degree, clinical internships, professional testing, and continuing education. Many states also have licensing requirements for dietitians.


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## ryantrek (Jul 30, 2013)

theMeat said:


> Go get yourself some whey protein for during the day, and casein protein for at night before bed. Have a whey drink in between meals and definitely after a workout. Have casein and/or cottage cheese before bed. Eat at a 4 to 1 ratio carbs protein. Get some big bowls and big spoons and just eat more and more often.
> As far as exercise, do whole body moves like dead lifts and squats.
> Check out Lee Hayward's Total Fitness Bodybuilding Blog , a fellow hardgainer, for some great free info.


 Excellent advice, good basis for starting a gain program.

Why in the holy hell any nutritionist would tell you to start with a cleanse is beyond me. You are not a person that needs to cleanse, I imagine you do that just fine on your own if you're not building much size (ie. you poop a lot). As others have said, try to find someone that has a degree in sports nutrition, they will be most helpful


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Thanx Ryan. I too would rather listen to someone or in this case the many who have found success on a given topic, IDK, call me crazy. 
As far as a cleanse the logic is that if your intestines are dirty you're not getting the value of the food you eat but instead lots just passes throu you. I agree that I wouldn't recommend it for someone looking to gain and in the short term you will loose, but in the long term it may help. Not to be gross but the diameter, consistency, and frequency of your poop is a direct and precise way of telling whether a cleanse may benefit, and for most just upping your roughage and/or the timing of it will do the trick.


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## ryantrek (Jul 30, 2013)

I eat a lot of yogurt to try to keep my bacteria at a level where it needs to stay for proper break down of food. I am of the endomorph body type. I never have trouble gaining weight, but sadly, it is usually of the fat type. Last winter I was doing a body builder routine, including diet, and work out. I went too far too fast and destroyed some tendons, and had to stop. I'm healed now, and likely may start working on it a little less excitement.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Yup, bacteria is needed for breakdown and a good cleanse will wipe out most so it's a good idea to replace when a cleanse is completed. But most of the foods nutrients are absorbed in the small intestine, so even if food's properly broken down, if your intestines are dirty, for lack of a better word, you have digested food but haven't absorbed as many nutrients. Hence the cleanse recommendation for weight gain.


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## PricklyPete (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm 6'5" and ~170 lbs... So I can relate...although I am at a healthier weight. To maintain my weight, I eat a number of things:

1) Lots of whole grain bread with almond butter
2) lots of Avacados
3) lots of rice/quinoa/similar grains
4) whole milk with most meals
5) regular pints of craft beer.

I need to put on some more muscle (~5-10 lbs), which I will concentrate on over the winter. I will probably pick up my meat/egg consumption during that period.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

We have no information that will be helpful. What do you eat currently? You also haven't said anything about what you do during the day and what types of exercise you engage in. 

(Anyone suggesting casein protein has no idea of the dangers associated with that protein.)


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Make all your meals (hopefully you have 3 full balanced meals or the equivalent split into 4+ smaller meals), into multiple course meals.

If you don't have time for such, just take your regular meal and plop it all into a soup container with whatever variety of hot soup you may prefer (or vice versa, plopping hot soup onto your meal).

Don't eat a whole lot of 1 type of food. Mix it up with a nice balance with a lot of nutrients. I like to have pickled veggies on hand to act as "condiments" or "seasoning", or something canned like sardines. If you tend to eat a lot of bread, pasta, or rice, without much of anything else, your body might just process what it can use from it and send all the excess out the poop chute.

I had this problem coming off of the "college diet". I've since kept a nice pantry full of stuff to create balanced meals, and kept a few favorites stocked in the fridge like fresh tomatoes. I'm a lazy bastard when it comes to food, so I shop the canned food aisle a lot. I think how I eat now is similar to how I ate when I visited the chow hall while I was in the military, with 1 main dish, 3 sides, a soup, and a 2 glasses of water. Like a buffet. Also, it's nice to have your favorite condiments/seasoning on hand to make whatever concoction you make up palatable. My personal secret weapon is Srirachi sauce, which works on almost everything, adding a nice flavorful zest.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

alphazz said:


> (Anyone suggesting casein protein has no idea of the dangers associated with that protein.)


Yeah, you gotta watch out for those amino acids, calcium, phosphorus, and carbohydrates that our bodies need, that are a major part of most cheeses and make up 80% of the protein in cow's milk, which btw people have been eating and living long healthy lives on for a very long time. It's also like 45% of human milk's protein and that mother's milk that our own bodies make must be bad for us too right.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Another idea is to make more than one meals worth of food at a time. Also a good idea to get a lunch box or backpak so you can have a few healthy meals with you while on the go.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

theMeat said:


> Yeah, you gotta watch out for those amino acids, calcium, phosphorus, and carbohydrates that our bodies need, that are a major part of most cheeses and make up 80% of the protein in cow's milk, which btw people have been eating and living long healthy lives on for a very long time. It's also like 45% of human milk's protein and that mother's milk that our own bodies make must be bad for us too right.


The dairy industry loves people like you. They have gotten rich telling you how good dairy products are for you. Just like unleaded gas doesn't work very well in a diesel, cow's milk hasn't worked very well in humans. By the way, have you looked around lately? We don't live long healthy lives. Nearly 80% of Americans are on at least one medication. The drug companies would have you believe that's normal too.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

alphazz said:


> The dairy industry loves people like you. They have gotten rich telling you how good dairy products are for you. Just like unleaded gas doesn't work very well in a diesel, cow's milk hasn't worked very well in humans. By the way, have you looked around lately? We don't live long healthy lives. Nearly 80% of Americans are on at least one medication. The drug companies would have you believe that's normal too.


I'm more concerned with milk being homogenized or pasteurized than the beneficial proteins that they leave in it. Or the gmos steroids and antibiotics that are fed to cows that for the most part we have no choice or knowledge of. 80% of americans on meds I'd beg to differ also but how bout we share our experience without getting into a flame war and hopefully well into our 80s or 90s which is long enough for me.


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## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Depends on your age too. When i was a teen i was a similar weight and height. If you're past your mid-20's and you haven't fattened up, might be worth seeing a doctor and starting some protein shakes.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Meat, I'm not talking at all about homogenization or pasteurization, and I'm not even concerned with all the crap they inject into cows. The nearly 80% number isn't something you can differ with no matter how much you "beg". The studies are telling us that is the number. Harvard did one of the studies at the beginning of this summer. All of the studies put the number between 70 and 80% with over 50% of the American population on multiple medications. My own mother is on 5 different medications for controlling her blood pressure and heart. 

Yes, some might be living to be 80 or 90 but a large share of those in that age group are in nursing homes, being stuffed full of medications to the point where they hardly recognize their own children.

In my immediate family I could give you no less than 6 different problems caused by dairy products. Some as severe as Type 1 diabetes. Dairy products are causing serious problems but you won't hear that in this country unless you talk with those doing the research who aren't either being paid by or influenced by the dairy industry.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Very odd to want to talk about the dangers of dairy without including what we take out of and add to it. Not to mention the amount of conveniences we employ these days that leads to a much less active population. Or all the pollutants and highly modified unnatural environments we live in. Add to that the huge increase in sugar and sugar products and all the other modified foods we eat and there's just too many variables to have an intelligent convo about 1 aspect you claim is the cause. 
Studies? Really? All I can say is that in the circles I travel in that 70-80% medicated statistic isn't even close, even among my older friends and family.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Because the dangers of dairy aren't in the chemicals that are taken away or added to it. We don't need calcium or vitamin D fortified milk, we just need to stay away from dairy. We don't need the calcium or the vitamin D or anything else they add to milk. Think about it, it's the dairy industry that has tooted it's own horn about how good dairy is for you, in school, in government programs, and even in the doctor's office. 

Who makes the recommendations for how much protein we need and how many servings of dairy we need? Well, mostly agencies supported by the meat, dairy, and sugar industries.

Yes, studies, you must not read medical journals or pay attention to the news. Mayo Clinic, you might have heard of them, released a study in May/June and their findings were that 70% of Americans were taking prescription medication in 2009.

You "travel" in healthy "circles". The rest of America isn't that healthy. I was riding with a pharmacist friend who a week ago mentioned to me, "You know, there are a lot of obese people." He spends 12 hours a day filling prescriptions for what he says is mostly an obese society. 

I agree with you concerning sugar. Why has the most recent Food and Nutrition Board increased the recommended daily allowances in the areas of sugar and protein? Why would they give recommendations for "up to 25% of calories" as added sugars? It has nothing to do with what's good for us. It has a lot to do with the influence of three very powerful industries, the meat industry, the dairy industry, and the sugar industry.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Just about everything has some good and bad, moderation is key. If you want to skip dairy i'm fine with that, but while avoiding the so called dangers, you're also avoiding it's benefits. For the sake of keeping this thread ot and somewhat within the realm of normal, I have to say that dairy is a great and healthy way for most to add protein as well as many other beneficial things to their diet. If you'd like to discuss your fear of dairy further, think we should start another thread.

On a positive note, and since we're on this milk topic, OP, check out squats and milk routine and also check out some before and afters. The 20 rep squat routine is also tried and true.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Slugs could be a source of protein as well. The American public has been duped into thinking that milk is beneficial by the dairy industry.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

alphazz said:


> The American public has been duped into thinking that milk is beneficial by the dairy industry.


You're right they are powerful, Wow. To invent time travel and go back thousands of years across most of the globe and dupe millions of people that have been consuming many animal's milk and using it to make many products before there was even an industry is impressive. Did they also invent women's tits? And designing animals of all types around the world to live and grow on milk alone for the first part of their life was pure genius.

There was always a usefulness and a need, that's why there's now an industry to support it, it's not the other way around or a conspiracy.


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## RossJamis (Aug 27, 2013)

If your burning your reserves you need to start loading up on calorie dense foods..Fried chicken, lots of cheese products. Since you burn every thing off you can afford to eat lots of healthy vegetables and fiber rich food on top of the fat. Buy some heavy cream and start making, smoothies and protein shakes with it. Sugars will help you gain weight but at what cost.


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

I had/have crohn's. It culminated 5 years ago with bowel surgery(sm intestine removed). There isn't solid evidence as to where crohn's comes from. One line of thought, is that cow's with Johne's disease pass that through milk and if you are more susceptible you may end up with crohn's. To sum it up, I don't drink any milk that isn't ultra-pasteurized(usually organic). I am a hard-gainer also. 6'1" 150 most ever was 180. I am 43 and still struggling to gain. One needs to take in more calories than one burns. You can at least exercise by doing basic exercises like push ups, sit ups, squats and pull ups - I downloaded ap's for each of those and they have motivated me.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

brmeyer, sorry for your woes. I'm no doctor or medical researcher but I do find it interesting that China has such a low instance of Crohn's. As you probably know it is believed to be linked to genetics and animal proteins, and Chinese diets are low in animal high in pant based foods, and of coarse there's also no shortage of pollutants in China. It is unlikely that it has to do with the huge use of antibiotics there in both their livestock and people since that is more modern. I wonder if it has to do with something much more simple like how the typical daily Chinese diet contains around 2000mg of iodine while most other counties contains under 400. It also seems that in places where the climate is colder the instances go way up, where in counties closer to the equator they're in general much lower. And why has Brazil's instances nearly doubled in recent years? There's even conflicting info on how effective pasteurization is at killing Johne's, or even how much if any Johne's has to do with it.
Good luck to you


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

Today, there isn't conflicting info on if pasteurization kills Johne's disease. It doesn't. Well over 2/3 of all Crohn's disease patients have the same bacteria of Johne's disease in cattle. But after one factors in that more than 20% of Crohn's disease patients might not actually have Crohn's but another intestinal disease and the difficulty in identifying the disease (which has gotten much easier with the use of dna) the presence of the Johne's disease bacteria in humans extremely large. If this had to do with nearly any other substance, other than dairy products, we would have warnings on dairy products similar to those on cigarettes.

By the way, themeat, in the distant past, milk was drank soon after milking the cow or goat. Milk seems to be a perfect medium for bacteria growth. Once industrialization started, people started purchasing more milk instead of milking their own animals. The milk then sat for longer periods of time and many did get sick and many died from milk. Thus pasteurization is the process to extend the shelf life of milk without having a lot of bacteria.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Think you and I have made our point already. You or anyone interested can google "is milk or dairy good for you" and you'll get tons of info from both sides of this argument, alot of which has nothing to do with the dairy industry, just from doctors. I am of the camp which seems to be the general consensus that milk in moderation is good, especially for an active lifestyle.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

And I am in the camp that thinks disease of any kind is not good and many only hear the "Got Milk" side. They don't hear that milk is considered to be the link to diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn's disease, Parkinsons's disease, as well as the protein in milk has been shown to promote cancer growth to the point that cancer can turned off and on by the amount of milk protein given. The "Got Milk" advertising campaign could be the "Got disease" campaign.

There are far better places to get protein from if that is one's concern. There is a far better way to get vitamin D, and there is a far better way to get calcium.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

musikron said:


> Not really finding the info I need anywhere, so lets see what y'all have to say about it.
> 
> The issue is I am a rail, 6'3" 140lbs and I struggle to stay at a healthy weight. In addition I have no stamina, nor body fat reserves, I quickly gas out and start burning muscle. So what are your favorite "power foods"? What packs the absolute best most fuel per bite, yet also is palatable?
> 
> I have to do something here, and every supposed nutritionist I speak with puts me on some stupid cleansing diet that sends me to the hospital. So fatten me up, but in a healthy way. ( I can't eat 6 cheesecakes a day)


How old are you?


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

alphazz said:


> And I am in the camp that thinks disease of any kind is not good and many only hear the "Got Milk" side. They don't hear that milk is considered to be the link to diseases like rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, multiple sclerosis, Type 1 diabetes, inflammatory bowel disease, Crohn's disease, Parkinsons's disease, as well as the protein in milk has been shown to promote cancer growth to the point that cancer can turned off and on by the amount of milk protein given. The "Got Milk" advertising campaign could be the "Got disease" campaign.
> 
> There are far better places to get protein from if that is one's concern. There is a far better way to get vitamin D, and there is a far better way to get calcium.


There's also far better places to go on and on and make the same point over and over. Everyone gets your point, and makes up their own mind anyways. Guess those billions of folks that ate dairy their whole life that lived to a ripe old age just got lucky. We're all going to die from something, you can blame it all on dairy that's fine, not true but fine. You've got your blinders on so whatever.


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

themeat, blinders, really? A lot of folks live long lives despite a lot of things. More of a testament of the wonders of the human body than the diet. A lot of people aren't convinced that smoking is bad either, who has the blinders?


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Umm, I said more than once that dairy has some cons, especially if you add lifestyle and what humans have done to both. Have you recognized any pros? Gotta say it made me chuckle when you went on about those diseases because the only person I know with lupus is of a religion that doesn't allow her to eat any meats, and she's been struggling with weight her whole life so avoids most dairy, and certainly milk her whole life also. 
I could see if this was a vegan passion thread, but on a thread where someone asked for advice on gaining, for you to come across this way IMO makes you seem more and more like a person who needs deodorant, some b12, spends much too much time planning what to eat because of your diet's shortcomings, and you do know the brain needs protein to function also right?. Maybe a burger and glass of milk would help. Got milk? lol. It is also theorized that consuming animal proteins regularly is what allowed our brains to grow and separated us from monkeys.


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## brmeyer135 (Mar 1, 2013)

In my post I was saying two things: dairy if ultra-pasteurized and the OP needs to take in more calories. That is going to have to be a regimen...much like dieting and if needed counting calories. If you aren't working out you don't need the protein. But, based on your size, you should at least be doing a routine of moving yourself - basics of pushups, setups, etc. Looking at the Lee Hayward site, that would be great, but again, dedication is needed...that is body-building website. I am thinking realistic, I would like to go to the gym everyday...not going to happen but again can do the basics at home. Heck, read up on Herschel Walker - "Walker has participated in a variety of sports including football, Olympic bobsledding, track and field, taekwondo, and ballet dancing. Instead of lifting weights, he has a daily regimen of 750 to 1,500 push-ups and 2,000 sit-ups. He has been going through this same routine since high school." Lastly, watching American Ninja - those guys are freaking all around strong...that kind of strong would lend itself to mountain biking and anything else one does.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

^
Will say that if you cut down on protein it means cut down in general since you should be around a 4 to 1 ratio carbs protein, especially if active.
-many people swear by and have great results with a hit type routine as little as once a week.
-body weight exercises are great and are also known to be better for stimulating your body to grow more because your body moves through space instead of you stationary and weights moving. 
-pushups and situps are great but the bigger the muscle group the stronger the stimulation for your entire body to grow, so squats and pullups are what I'd recommend first and foremost for a hardgainer.


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## plantdude (Dec 30, 2007)

I too have always had the "issue" of gaining weight. 6' 160 lbs, but fluctuate from 155 to 162 (sometimes come back from a long ride 4lbs less than I was first thing in the AM!).

I also have an issue with recovery from long rides, especially if I don't eat enough during the ride. I can't physically consume enough food to restore my lost weight.

My strategies are: good wholesome foods and lots of them. Eat, eat, eat. Eat a meal before bed (2nd dinner). If you've done an especially long ride, wake up in the middle of the night and eat a meal (pro footballers do this to help with weight gain). Whole milk, whole milk yogurt, avos, butter in/on your grains, pasta, and potatoes. Pretend you're Kobayashi.

Most importantly, you need to really address your on-the-bike nutrition. Carbs in your fluids (some sort of drink mix), eat small amount during the ride, and eat as soon as you get home - don't let this last part slip.

Remember that being healthy is your first priority.


Sent from a tiny keyboard


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## alphazz (Oct 12, 2012)

brmeyer brings up a good example. Herschel Walker doesn't eat red meat, in fact has a very small amount of protein compared to the average person in America and yet is very strong. He's not fat, he's strong, and he doesn't worry about his diet other than eating good natural food.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

We also don't know if he is/was a hard gainer (i'd guess not), he's been training pretty much his whole life, and at 50 your metab slows no matter what you do or eat like it or not.
Ok, after googling him the first and only paragraph I read said he eats once a day and works out like crazy so he's not a good example, and his own trainer can't believe or understand. I would say that 99.6% of people couldn't expect that outcome from his diet and training but I'm not sure, Harvard hasn't done that study yet.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Good info Plantdude
Will add that your 4 lb weight loss post ride must be mostly water so hydrate more, slowly, and more often. 
Also the wake up in the middle of night trick works but for many isn't practical. Another strategy is to eat slow digesting foods before bed. Of coarse don't get so bloated you can't rest but cottage cheese with berries, or brown rice with black beans are good choices to name a few. The opposite is true for post exercise when fast digesting proteins and simpler carbs are best.


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