# First ride: Rotor SS specific Q-ring



## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

Recieved and installed my new Rotor SS specific Q-ring last night.
No ramps or pins, SS tooth profile. The bolt holes are recessed on the back for "middle ring" position mounting, but I mounted mine outboard for frame clearance.
It only comes in a 34 tooth version, so I switched out my 18T cog for a 19T.

Now the ride:
I've never ridden a Q-ring before, so I was wondering if I'd "FEEL" the eliptical shape, pulsing or surging. NOPE.
I also worried about changing chain tension, NOPE
It pedals smooth .

I headed for one of my favorite areas with lots of steep climbs to see what difference it made.

WOW, it's difficult to explain but it really is amazing. 
It really minimizes the DEAD ZONE in a pedal rotation, almost like someone is givinmg you a push as the pedal passes from 10 O'clock to 2 O'clock.

I definately climbed with less effort and carried more speed over the top....
I'd definately recomend it.


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## byknuts (Aug 9, 2008)

absolutely!! let me just check the price and.........  
oops.  



glad you like yours!!  

sorry, in all seriousness, d'you figure it's worth 2 or 3 teeth in terms of top speed, or are we more talking just an increase in effectiveness?
reason I ask: not looking for more top end, but I'd love for high-effort low-speed moments to get a bit easier, my left knee's been picking it's battles and I'd like to give it less home turf.
lots of trailer work with my kid and I'd like to make it a tad easier on myself


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## bryan_d (Mar 16, 2009)

Nice write-up.  Definitely love my Q-rings too, despite costing 1/3 of my bike (no jokes).

Is your bike a 26"?


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## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

byknuts said:


> absolutely!! let me just check the price and.........
> oops.
> 
> glad you like yours!!
> ...


 I'm running the 34T with a 19T cog.
My old set up with 32T X 18T so the ratio is pretty much the same. The real benifit I was hoping for and really think I found is the EFFORT when grinding out steep climbs, 
From what you are saying, I'd say it's worth a try


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## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

bryan_d said:


> Nice write-up.  Definitely love my Q-rings too, despite costing 1/3 of my bike (no jokes).
> 
> Is your bike a 26"?


 I'm riding a 29'r..... A NINER ONE9


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

And no issues with tension?


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

Mine shipped yesterday. Will report back later!:thumbsup:


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## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

Stevob said:


> And no issues with tension?


 NO... When I was about to install it, I stood there looking at the shape and thought "HOW?" I really expected to either be binding during part of the rotation or hearing the chain slapping the stay at some point, but as the chain is wrapping roughly 2/3 of the ring at any moment, it is carrying the same amount of chain all the time.


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

that's really cool.


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

scyule said:


> I'm running the 34T with a 19T cog.
> My old set up with 32T X 18T so the ratio is pretty much the same. The real benifit I was hoping for and really think I found is the EFFORT when grinding out steep climbs,
> From what you are saying, I'd say it's worth a try


I have a much older Q-ring on my bikes. I just recently took it of as I switched cranks to Middleburn 34 tooth Uno ring. My ring does get tight/slack, but it never gave me problems (okay once, but my chain was probably too worn so that was my fault). I used it for a long time several years, happily.

Since switching to my new cranks and cog combo (34x21) I have found things harder than I expected to. I don't notice any difference when I pedal, but I agree that the steeper climbs seem to be harder now. I'm having a harder time manning up. I like my new cranks, but miss my Q-ring.


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## BSIDE (Nov 21, 2006)

*Running 33 tooth Q ring*

on my One 9 for over a year now, set up in the #3 position, and I love it. I put a 32 round back on for one ride back in July just for comparison and it just felt WRONG. The pedals felt harder to push in spite of the loss of one tooth ( actually, the 33 is more comparable to a 34 round in the power zone).

Interestingly, I have the same 33 on my SIR 9 1 X 9 and the difference is not as noticeable as compared to my 3 X 9 bike with a 32. I notice Q ring benefits the most when standing rather than when in the saddle.


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## cocheese (Jan 12, 2004)

I borrowed some Q-rings from a friend for my road bike. I thought they would feel really weird, but they don't. Seriously, I got used to them in about 5 minutes. I have a really bad knee and I have heard that they can help with some types of issues. I've got another 29er SS on the way, and I'm going to try the 34t Q-ring. I have also heard of folks running the ramped/pinned versions just fine. This gives you a little more flexibility in the tooth count.


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## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

cocheese said:


> I borrowed some Q-rings from a friend for my road bike. I thought they would feel really weird, but they don't. Seriously, I got used to them in about 5 minutes. I have a really bad knee and I have heard that they can help with some types of issues. I've got another 29er SS on the way, and I'm going to try the 34t Q-ring. I have also heard of folks running the ramped/pinned versions just fine. This gives you a little more flexibility in the tooth count.


 You are right.... the 34T SS version is quite NEW, you can actually get the ramped/pinned 32T version for quite a bit LESS money if you buy right from ROTOR


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## bryan_d (Mar 16, 2009)

scyule said:


> You are right.... the 34T SS version is quite NEW, you can actually get the ramped/pinned 32T version for quite a bit LESS money if you buy right from ROTOR


$90 to $130 is more than just a bit for that price range, with not much benefit in my opinion when comparing the two.

But either way, buying q-rings are awesome.


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## mtroy (Jun 10, 2005)

I would like to try that, but WOW! Why so stinkin' expensive? Just because the cnc machine is set to an oval shape?

Mercy. Now I am afraid...if I try it and like, I am sucked in to buying $$$ chainrings forever:madman:


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## minh (May 23, 2004)

wasn't biopace something like this?


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## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

minh said:


> wasn't biopace something like this?


Rotor Q-Rings help to minimize the time spent in the dead spot while pedaling. While oval chainrings have historically been controversial, we believe that allowing a rider to fine tune the chainring position offers opportunities to minimize the dead spot never before realized with conventional chainrings. The Q-Rings are elliptical; the *Biopace *and O.SYMETRIC chainrings are asymmetrical. The specific elliptical shape of the Q-Ring provides a very smooth uniform pedaling stroke; there is no sudden acceleration movement. Biopace chainrings are designed so that the maximum equivalent tooth size is at the dead-spot. Q-Rings have the minimum equivalent tooth size at the dead-spot which enables you to pass through the dead-spot quicker and with less stress to your knees. Q-Rings take into consideration static forces from your legs and the inertia of the cyclist and the bicycle. This maximizes the efficiency and comfort of conventional cranks. The Rotor patented OCP System enables you to customize the position your Q-Rings to suit your individual riding habits, body geometry, strength and position on the bike


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

Mine just came in today. Are you still in the third position. Did you start in the middle? Looks like rotor recommends starting in the middle position.


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## bryan_d (Mar 16, 2009)

Juanmoretime said:


> Mine just came in today. Are you still in the third position. Did you start in the middle? Looks like rotor recommends starting in the middle position.


I started in the middle, but have since moved onto the "3" as it feels best when standing and grinding.

Good luck,

bryan d


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## deltasierra (Aug 13, 2008)

How about an engineering-style explanation of why there are no chain tension issues? (Or a link.) I'm not convinced.

In a road configuration the RD moves quite a bit on each stroke. I want to, but I really cannot understand how these can be run SS.


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## bryan_d (Mar 16, 2009)

deltasierra said:


> How about an engineering-style explanation of why there are no chain tension issues? (Or a link.) I'm not convinced.
> 
> In a road configuration the RD moves quite a bit on each stroke. I want to, but I really cannot understand how these can be run SS.


I have commented on someone elses q-rings looking too tight, and I gotta say that I find it questionable too.

I tensioned my rings to the correct amount of tension at the tightest (largest width perpendicular to plane between rear cog and chainring) part of the revolution. Before and after that point however my chain is less tensioned but has never come off.

You have to keep in mind that for SS the tooth count is less and so the elipitcal effect is not as drastic compared to that of the larger rings.

Another reason I would choose the 33T over the 34T.

Bryan d


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

First ride yesterday I came off a 33 tooth Boone. Felt fine from the beginning. I loved the way I could get up to speed coming off of corners. High speed sections were a total blast and with my 19 on the back I was able to make some climbs that took a 20 with my 33 up front to make previously and I didn't feel like I was going to stall out during the climb. Standing while climb felt very good but I'm going to try the number 3 position for the heck of it but its going to stay for now.:thumbsup: 

Maybe a Boone 33 for sale soon!:eekster:


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## Stevob (Feb 27, 2009)

damn it...my wish list is getting out of control.


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## TheGenTwo (Oct 23, 2009)

What is the rough lifespan of these chainrings like? I would wish to better justify the purchase with the knowledge that one of these 'rings can outlast a few chains .


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## artnshel (Jul 10, 2004)

I think mine have worn more quickly than I'd like but it won't stop me from using them. Rotor rings just feel better to me now. Maybe the SS specific ring will be harder.


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

resurrected from the archives..........

Installed a Q-ring today, also running 34x19 in position #2 per the instructions. What is everyone else running now after a year+ on the ring?

Looking for effects in two areas, what's the consensus on positioning the ring?
1- accelerating out of corners
2- power in the very short, steep punchy climbs here in South Florida

Moving to Colorado next summer - I'm sure #3 will be the position to use there with all the climbing.


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

I'm still loving the ring and running the 34/19 in the middle position.:thumbsup:


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

Juanmoretime said:


> I'm still loving the ring and running the 34/19 in the middle position.:thumbsup:


Colorado, right?

Just trying to sort the differences between position #2 and #3. Above, #3 was said to feel best on climbing and grinding. Without hills here in FL to experiment with, I'm looking for an 'out-of-the box' solution. May try some local bridges.


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## Juanmoretime (Jul 30, 2004)

GreenLightGo said:


> Colorado, right?
> 
> Just trying to sort the differences between position #2 and #3. Above, #3 was said to feel best on climbing and grinding. Without hills here in FL to experiment with, I'm looking for an 'out-of-the box' solution. May try some local bridges.


Central Illinois.


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

First chance to Run the Q-ring on the trail, all I've got to say is: what took me so long? Great day on position 2, great for the flatfish SoFla trails. 34x19, position 2. I'll have to try position 3 just to satisfy curiosity and see if that'll be best for all the climbing in Colorado.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Anybody have any knee problems yet from running one of these? 

I am running 34x18 (which is bigger than my pre-Rotor setup of 32x18,) and started experiencing left knee pain that feels like an it band issue. I am now going over the various parts of my bike to try to pin point the cause (or determine if it's just me.)


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## scyule (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey... I ran 34/18 for the first part of this season and went back to 34/19 for an 8-hour we were in a few weeks ago and ended up leaving it that way. I really do love the effect of the ROTOR RING ( still running it in the (3) position ( I spent ALOT of time out of the saddle), I recently replaced my 175mm STYLO cranks with the 180mm STYLO OCT version... and that 5mm is something you can actually feel.......... I know ... 3% more torque shouldn't be something you can feel, but I swear I do.

As for WEAR on the ROTOR RING, it still looks good , like any ring WEAR is inevitable, but keeping it clean and lubed and maintaining as perfect a chainline as possible must help.as well as replacing the chain as soon as it measures as worn


As for KNEE PAIN, so far so good........ I would suspect that knee pain would be more atributable to riding a SINGLE SPEED than to riding an eliptical chain ring, just my opinion


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

dubthang said:


> Anybody have any knee problems yet from running one of these?
> 
> I am running 34x18 (which is bigger than my pre-Rotor setup of 32x18,) and started experiencing left knee pain that feels like an it band issue. I am now going over the various parts of my bike to try to pin point the cause (or determine if it's just me.)


None, whatsoever. Try some hip and leg stretching, 4-5 times a week. A lot of IT band issues are due to inflexibility ( not saying yours is, just a generalization).


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

dubthang said:


> Anybody have any knee problems yet from running one of these?
> 
> I am running 34x18 (which is bigger than my pre-Rotor setup of 32x18,) and started experiencing left knee pain that feels like an it band issue. I am now going over the various parts of my bike to try to pin point the cause (or determine if it's just me.)


You pedal the same circles you always did. So either the gear's too hard, or its something else.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

The reason that I asked about knee pain in the first place was that it is mentioned on Rotor's website. They say that switching to position one can help limit it. I'm going to switch it from position 2 to 1 tonight to see if that makes a difference on tomorrow's ride. I've also moved my seat forward a bit to help keep the bigger gear more under me instead of out in front of me (keep my toes under my knees.) 

I also have a 19t WI freewheel that I need to swap my 18t trials guts into. I have a feeling that the gearing could just be too high, and as the season progresses, the extra effort is getting the best of me.


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## dubthang (Apr 2, 2009)

Did a 3 hour ride today of super techy single track. Position 1 seems to have made a big difference in my knee pain. Only had a slight tingle in the knee, and I don't feel a thing as I type this. Is this the solution to my issue, I don't know. But it's start in the right direction.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

I just put mine on today... gonna try 2 for now, but just rolling around the street, I think I can see how #3 could be more comfortable. Test ride in the morning.


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## a4racer (Feb 11, 2004)

*Where did you guys get your Rotor rings?*

I have one on my 1x10, and want one for my SS, the one I have I bought on eBay from a vendor in Israel, and am hoping to buy one a little closer to home! Any suggestions?

Thanks!!


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## GreenLightGo (Oct 24, 2006)

a4racer said:


> I have one on my 1x10, and want one for my SS, the one I have I bought on eBay from a vendor in Israel, and am hoping to buy one a little closer to home! Any suggestions?
> 
> Thanks!!


http://www.cart32hostingred.com/cgi-bin/cart32.exe/ROTORCOMPONENTSLLC-store?catid=1

Rotor USA is where I'd look....


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

scyule said:


> and that 5mm is something you can actually feel.......... I know ... 3% more torque shouldn't be something you can feel, but I swear I do.


They say what you feel is a better leg position for your height, not the torque. I am sure torque plays a role, but when I got longer cranks (I am not tall), it seemed out of whack...


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## 1SPD (Apr 25, 2010)

Just don't think I can pay that much for a chain ring. Just reminds me of when I had to replace some of my Campy parts back in the day when I was road racing! The fact that the ring cost more than the crank posted in the op is a perfect example. Don't get me wrong, I would like to give it a shot but I don't believe they make one that fits the M960 bolt pattern. I would also have to rebuild my WI trials freewheel with a 19t on it as I refuse to drop $130 for a ring only to have to down grade my freewheel. That being said, I will consider to look at the dead spot of my pedal strok as my rest period!


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## Truth! (May 4, 2005)

Ha!
Biopace again!


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Truth! said:


> Ha!
> Biopace again!


Holy thread resurrection.

No, it is the opposite of biopace. It works.


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## Truth! (May 4, 2005)

Hmmm skeptical,
I know that one legged pedals will also remove that " dead spot" cheaper but my huge hip flexors I guess weigh more


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## Truth! (May 4, 2005)

http://www.jssm.org/vol8/n3/21/v8n3-21pdf.pdf

Scientfic study on regular vs. Rotor


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Truth! said:


> Hmmm skeptical,


Whatever. Works very well for me on the granny gear and technical climbs.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

Truth! said:


> http://www.jssm.org/vol8/n3/21/v8n3-21pdf.pdf
> 
> Scientfic study on regular vs. Rotor


That study is not looking at the rings, it's looking at the cranks.

Sebt frm my iPhne usig Tapaak


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

Truth! said:


> Ha!
> Biopace again!
> Hmmm skeptical...


Not at all, Q Rings work in the exact opposite manner that Biopace "worked" (or didn't). It's easy to be skeptical of something you don't understand, but if you read up a little on the science behind the design I think you'll see that the concept has merit. In the interest of full disclosure, I'm a Rotor dealer and have a stake in keeping the Rotor name in a positive light, but to be honest I'd say the same thing even if I wasn't. I've been using Q Rings for six or seven years and highly recommend giving them a try.

There are several links to scientific details here: Rotor Bike Components


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

-Anomie- said:


> There are several links to scientific details here: Rotor Bike Components


Studies look at energy output and the like, things of interest to the racing community. Personally, I do not care much about that/

What I found is that with Rotor's granny ring I do hit rocks less on technical climbs, and it gives me a little oomph to clear steps. Just a slightly different rhythm. I did not care for them as a middle ring, as they do not shift up as well is the stock XTR/SLX rings, and I did not feel same benefit in the middle ring.


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2012)

Axe said:


> Studies look at energy output and the like, things of interest to the racing community. Personally, I do not care much about that/
> 
> What I found is that with Rotor's granny ring I do hit rocks less on technical climbs, and it gives me a little oomph to clear steps. Just a slightly different rhythm. I did not care for them as a middle ring, as they do not shift up as well is the stock XTR/SLX rings, and I did not feel same benefit in the middle ring.


:thumbsup:

I find Q rings to be less beneficial as the cadence goes up. I feel that's consistent with the view that they work better as a granny than as larger rings...something I agree with.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

let's take elliptical rings to a whole new level. who's going to be the guinea pig and try this on ss?


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

fishcreek said:


> let's take elliptical rings to a whole new level. who's going to be the guinea pig and try this on ss?


Where can I get one? My SS is with Melvin tensioner, so it should work fine there.


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## fishcreek (Apr 10, 2007)

make it work.

Ogival


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

fishcreek said:


> make it work.
> 
> Ogival


Interesting. 26t granny would be interesting to test. 38t goes up to 44 effective, kinda big.


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## Kaizer (Jul 19, 2010)

Would a 32T (at it's widest) granny ring clear the chainstay?


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## max-a-mill (Apr 14, 2004)

anyone making a generic version of these yet?

i'd love to try one but ain't gonna spend 100 bucks on it.

and as far as being the opposite of biopace... wouldn't simply rotating an oval ring like this 90 degrees make it the opposite of what it was? i am not seeing the difference both are just oval rings. the reason i ask is it would be easier for me to rig a road crank with an old 39t biopace ring a already have then to spend $$$ for this.


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## robotfury (Jan 4, 2008)

I have the Rotors but haven't installed them yet. Going to asap. However, I was wondering if anyone could comment on the positions #1 #2 #3? From what I gather from the thread, #3 is for when you have a lot of climbing?


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## Wish I Were Riding (Jan 30, 2004)

I don't know if I'm right, but you should check their web site to be sure. Keep in mind that there is a difference between climbing a lot on a SS (standing) and while sitting. If the 3 position is for climbing, it could also mean opptimised for seated pedalling. If I were you I would just use #2 spot until you've tried it for a while. Then if you change to #1 or #3 you might notice the difference bett


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

max-a-mill said:


> ...
> and as far as being the opposite of biopace... wouldn't simply rotating an oval ring like this 90 degrees make it the opposite of what it was?...


I was around during BioPace times... I still have a few BP rings in my parts bin. The difference is, back in those older-than-dirt days, all cranks had 5-arm spiders. So you couldn't just reposition the ring by 90º... there was no 90º with a 5-arm spider. But you could reposition BioPace by 2 spider bolt holes and come pretty close... close enough. That's the way I ran them back then and I actually liked them.

Problem was, when it introduced BioPace, Shimano tried to smooth out the "dead spot" by positioning the bulge in the ring to pull the chain through that dead section instead of using the bulge in the ring to pull the chain through the power section -- eg: when the arm was in its downward thrust position. They got it _exactly _wrong. I think that's why BioPace failed.

But if you've got BioPace rings and a 5-arm spider crank, reposition them by 2 bolt holes (as close to 90º as possible) and you might find you like 'em. If not 2 bolt holes, then try 3. You see what I mean.

--sParty


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