# Brakes for small hands



## reedrunner92 (Jun 13, 2021)

I'm looking to upgrade the stock SRAM Guide R brakes that came with my 2019 Juliana Furtado. I need a brake system that is designed for and/ or has real adjustment for smaller hands. I wear size small women's gloves, meaning my hands are in the "normal" range for women.

** UPDATE: I installed Hope Tech 3 E4's and new rotors. So far so good. After 6 big days the Hope BPC (bite point control) feature seems to be addressing my small hand geometry issues. As @Cherbicide pointed out, any brakes with the second adjustment screw (aka free stroke adjustment screw, bite point control) should do the trick.**

I'm considering the Hayes Dominion with SFL (single finger lever), about which Hayes says _"With the SFL option, the Dominion is the ideal brake option for any rider with smaller hands. Hayes product development team set out to design a brake system specifically designed for a smaller ergonomic profile." _

*Can you describe actual experience with the Hayes SFLs? *(I can't find a review of the SFL setup, even on Hayes website)* Or have you found other brake solutions for smaller hands? *I've heard good things about Shimano SLX as an upgrade to the SRAM Guide R's, but only from guys who don't have the small hand issue. Also, I've received recommendations to try a larger rotor (Juliana stock is 180mm). Seems like bigger rotors and downhill brakes might be overkill for me. I only weigh 120 pounds and the suggested fixes are for (or coming from) much heavier and more aggressive riders. While I do some aggressive downhill riding, I don't aspire to rock Whistler's A-line.

More backstory... now that my stock SRAM brakes have a couple years / about a thousand miles of wear, it is no longer possible to adjust them to bite like they should (especially the rear brake.) Five trips to my local bike shops: new pads, bedding the brake pads (by a 180# mechanic instead of 120# me), multiple brake bleeds, replacing parts in the brake lever (brake cylinder, barb), etc. After all that, the brake power is only just acceptable. The brake touchpoint / engagement / bite point is so close to the bar that I have to mount the brake levers really far inward to keep from crushing my knuckles. That far inward brake lever mount location (brake perch) makes it so that I can't reach the shift levers easily with my thumb, let alone while still covering the brake lever.

I'm no bike mechanic and I may not be using the right vocabulary. Here are more possible keywords for what I'm trying to solve: Too much cable slack. Too much throw. Too much lever throw, or how far the lever has to move before the brakes actually engage.

As a side note, what I've already done:
1. Replaced the brake pads
2. Adjusted the brake lever reach adjust screw to max (closest possible to bar)
3. Installed shift levers at the outer position on the brake lever Matchmaker mounting clamp (as close to my thumbs as possible)
4. Cheat: After brake bleed, removed the wheel and brake pads, manually reset brake piston position inboard of normal so that brake pads are closer to rotors (hacking the contact point for for earlier bite on lever squeeze) It was a super fussy trial and error process as it is easy to overcompensate and create rotor rub. I don't recommend this as it was a pain and only resulted in minimal improvement.
5. Cheat: After brake bleed, overpressurized the brakes with additional fluid so that the bite point was farther from the bars (again, this is hacking the contact point for earlier bite on lever squeeze) #5 is the most effective tweak.
6. FINAL SOLUTION UPDATE: I installed Hope Tech 3 E4's and new rotors. So far so good. After 6 big days the Hope BPC (bite point control) feature seems to be addressing my small hand geometry issues. As @Cherbicide pointed out, any brakes with the second adjustment screw (aka free stroke adjustment screw, bite point control) should do the trick.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Actually, you did a really nice job explaining. For me, I find there's two brands that work well for my smallish hands:

Hope
Shimano

That said, I hate the current set of Shimano brakes except the DH ones because they have a wandering bite point and the lever blades seem to be break off really easily.

I have not tried Magura's new offering, but I've heard they're really good too.

I have a set of Hope V4s on my big bike, and a set of Hope X2s on my trail bike. I'm really happy with them. My husband has Zees on his bike, and is pretty happy with them.

One of the things SRAM does not do well at all is egonomics--including brake lever size and shifters (not including the AXS shifter). They're designed for guys with big hands, and they forgot about either people who like a light touch, or don't have huge hands to brake with.


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## sonofmickel (Dec 31, 2006)

Shimano has been a let down for me. I have owned 3 different series of XT hydraulics and none have been able to set up good for small hands(regular size for me!).
All we need is an SFL lever for Shimano as the free stroke seems to work pretty good when the lever is set far away from the bar(read: for bigger hands).


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## reedrunner92 (Jun 13, 2021)

@stripes - Thanks for suggesting Hope brakes. I installed Hope Tech 3 E4's and new rotors this week. I have high hopes for the BPC (bite point control) feature addressing my small hand geometry issues. We'll see how it goes!


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## Cherbicide (Jan 5, 2022)

What was your solution? This is my problem exactly. I keep moving the brake levers in then the shifter hurts my thumb. I still can't just let my finger rest on the brake lever while riding.  I'm riding some crazy trails and doing big things now and I'd feel much safer and probably ride better if my finger could rest on the brake lever with my hand comfortably on the grip. 
I've been searching for a solution for years!


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## sonofmickel (Dec 31, 2006)

The only solution that I can think of is a pre-bent lever. Except no manufacturer makes one.

Someone please prove me wrong. Shimano xt lever replacement would be fine 🙂 👌 😪 😍 😋 😩...


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## reedrunner92 (Jun 13, 2021)

Cherbicide said:


> What was your solution? This is my problem exactly. I keep moving the brake levers in then the shifter hurts my thumb. I still can't just let my finger rest on the brake lever while riding.  I'm riding some crazy trails and doing big things now and I'd feel much safer and probably ride better if my finger could rest on the brake lever with my hand comfortably on the grip.
> I've been searching for a solution for years!


@Cherbicide - I installed Hope Tech 3 E4's and new 180 rotors in late-August and had 6 big days on them by end of the season. So far, the BPC (bite point control) feature is solving my small hand geometry issues so that I can brake without crushing my fingers.

As a side note, while I had order from multiple vendors and pay full price+ for a Hope setup during the COVID supply chain issues, I was also able to resell my 2-years used Guide R's and rotors on ebay (with all issues disclosed) and someone was happy to pay >$100 USD in September 2021.


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## Cherbicide (Jan 5, 2022)

sonofmickel said:


> The only solution that I can think of is a pre-bent lever. Except no manufacturer makes one.
> 
> Someone please prove me wrong. Shimano would be fine 🙂 👌 😪 😍 😋 😩...


Thank you for responding!
We need to get a petition going to sram and Shimano about this brake lever needed for women and kids! This is ridiculous!


reedrunner92 said:


> @Cherbicide - I installed Hope Tech 3 E4's and new 180 rotors in late-August and had 6 big days on them by end of the season. So far, the BPC (bite point control) feature is solving my small hand geometry issues so that I can brake without crushing my fingers.
> 
> As a side note, while I had order from multiple vendors and pay full price+ for a Hope setup during the COVID supply chain issues, I was also able to resell my 2-years used Shimano Guide R's and rotors on ebay (with all issues disclosed) and someone was happy to pay >$100 USD in September 2021.


I will give them a try. Hope they work for my ebike.


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## Cherbicide (Jan 5, 2022)

sonofmickel said:


> The only solution that I can think of is a pre-bent lever. Except no manufacturer makes one.
> 
> Someone please prove me wrong. Shimano xt lever replacement would be fine 🙂 👌 😪 😍 😋 😩...


Solution! (I only had reach adjustment on my brakes and no 2nd brake adjustment screw. 
When bleeding my brakes today the video that was guiding said to adjust reach adjustment screw to fully extend lever before bleeding. Then it said some bikes have a "free stroke adjustment screw" and to adjust that too. I thought hmmm that must make alter the brake biting time. Yep it does. This will make our brakes engage faster which is what we need. We need our levers close and the brake to bite faster before it crushes our fingers. Shimano XT has them, I'm sure more do too.
I'm so psyched I figured this out myself. My boyfriend works at a bike shop as a bike mechanic. He told me there's no solution, everyone rides with same type of levers and it's just me. He told me "maybe u should quit mtb'ing". I told him those were break up words. I was so mad. 
I tell him about the video I watched and the other screw and he tells me his brakes have them and they make the brake bite quicker. Seriously?! I wanted to strangle him! 
I said that's what I've wanted the whole time so why didn't you tell me about those brakes. He said 'well they don't do what you expect them to do'. He then adjusted his screw and squeezed the lever and instant bite. He said 'hmm actually they do.'
I still want to strangle him. He's a bike mechanic and when I explained my brake problem and had him read your post he had no advice other than for me to quit mtb'ing. 
Sigh
I hope this helps you. I bought the hope brakes Reedrunner92 recommended. Turns out they weren't steering us wrong. They also have 2 adjustments. 
"Master cylinder includes reach and bite point control adjustability (BPC) and the piston is actuated by a cam and roller system to eliminate free play and friction". 

Good luck! Thanks for the post it helped encourage me to solve the problem. I hope this is your answer too! 
I don't want to admit to how long this has been an issue even though my mtb mechanic bf's own brakes have this adjustment screw. Smh


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## sonofmickel (Dec 31, 2006)

Thanks, I already knew about the free stroke adjustment screw.
It mostly doesn't work on the majority of breaksets. 
I have 1 lever out of 3 pairs of beaksets where the free stroke adjuster actually works(1 of 6!).
My brand new set of 2020 xt's does not work.


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## Cherbicide (Jan 5, 2022)

Cherbicide said:


> Thank you for responding!
> We need to get a petition going to sram and Shimano about this brake lever needed for women and kids! This is ridiculous!
> 
> I will give them a try. Hope they work for my ebike.





sonofmickel said:


> Thanks, I already knew about the free stroke adjustment screw.
> It mostly doesn't work on the majority of breaksets.
> I have 1 lever out of 3 pairs of beaksets where the free stroke adjuster actually works(1 of 6!).
> My brand new set of 2020 xt's does not work.


I'll let you know how my hope brakes work. Fingers crossed.


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## bentmettle (Jul 2, 2018)

have any of you experimented with larger rotors? I'm wondering if it'd help with some of the hand issues my gf has after a lot of riding. 

We've also fought through the reach adjustments and all those issues as well - wondering if giving the brakes more power in the shorter distance the lever travel has would be the answer on multiple fronts.


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## rocwandrer (Oct 19, 2008)

bentmettle said:


> have any of you experimented with larger rotors? I'm wondering if it'd help with some of the hand issues my gf has after a lot of riding.
> 
> We've also fought through the reach adjustments and all those issues as well - wondering if giving the brakes more power in the shorter distance the lever travel has would be the answer on multiple fronts.


For my daughter, less surface area is better. I thought larger rotors would equate to less required hand strength and thus better modulation, but in practice it just meant more weight and me having to re-bed her brakes for her more often since they didn't get hot enough on actual rides to stay bedded.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

These are quite short, might work for small hands:









Pro 120 MTB Levers


Flo Motorsports Pro 120 Levers Designed to fit in to O.E. Perch. Will work with Shimano Deore XT M8000 , M8100, SLX M7100 , SLX M7120 and M6100 Hydraulic Brakes -Patented Unbreakable lever design -Sold as a Set -Pivot Point Allows the lever to fold out up on impact -Smooth Design for...




flomotorsports.com


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## Kimbo63 (7 mo ago)

reedrunner92 said:


> I'm looking to upgrade the stock SRAM Guide R brakes that came with my 2019 Juliana Furtado. I need a brake system that is designed for and/ or has real adjustment for smaller hands. I wear size small women's gloves, meaning my hands are in the "normal" range for women.
> 
> ** UPDATE: I installed Hope Tech 3 E4's and new rotors. So far so good. After 6 big days the Hope BPC (bite point control) feature seems to be addressing my small hand geometry issues. As @Cherbicide pointed out, any brakes with the second adjustment screw (aka free stroke adjustment screw, bite point control) should do the trick.**
> 
> ...


Hey there! What caliper mounts did you get? Did you need to order anything else to install these? Could you post a photo of your bars/setup? Thanks!!


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