# Breezer Series 1



## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Here's a cool old bike I'm working on- a Series 1 Breezer, no 5 of 10 built.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

> Whose bike is it?


Pat, don't tell.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Nice. Whose bike is it?


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Lordy, that's a beaut.


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## jeffgothro (Mar 10, 2007)

Very cool.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Repack Rider said:


> Pat, don't tell.


Oh, sorry, I just assumed it was yours. Are you a mechanic, Pat? What cool bikes you get to work on. Does the owner mind you clamping it on the top tube?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Are those Kool Stops correct for the bike?  


Looking forward to seeing it all built up!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Repack Rider said:


> Pat, don't tell.


Can I tell?


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

girlonbike said:


> Oh, sorry, I just assumed it was yours. Are you a mechanic, Pat? What cool bikes you get to work on. Does the owner mind you clamping it on the top tube?


Nothing wrong with clamping the top tube on a very robust steel frame like this one. The owner is an old friend here in Marin. Eric, the pads weren't specified in Joe's build sheet, these ones have been on the bike a long, long time-just not sure how long.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

FairfaxPat said:


> Nothing wrong with clamping the top tube on a very robust steel frame like this one. The owner is an old friend here in Marin. Eric, the pads weren't specified in Joe's build sheet, these ones have been on the bike a long, long time-just not sure how long.


Is it still in the hands of the original owner?


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## StanleyButterfly (Nov 4, 2009)

Bad habit IMHO. I would be pissed if somebody clamped my 10 thou bike by the top tube no matter how robust it is.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

StanleyButterfly said:


> Bad habit IMHO. I would be pissed if somebody clamped my 10 thou bike by the top tube no matter how robust it is.


Pretty sure $25k is the number they want to come out swingin' with.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

Simply sick.

What is the function of the diagonal tubes connecting the headtube to the drop out?


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## StanleyButterfly (Nov 4, 2009)

Somebody's been smokin too much weed.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Slimpee said:


> Simply sick.
> 
> What is the function of the diagonal tube connecting the headtube to the drop out?


Hey man. Long time no see. Hi!


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Rumpfy said:


> Pretty sure $25k is the number they want to come out swingin' with.


It's cool, but :eekster:!!!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

That's a huge number. I would think maybe 15k but 25k is a little outrageous. Oh well. It's nice watching the big boys toss around more money than a lot of people have in their 401k. 

Anyway... That's really neat pat! Thanks for taking pics. Sure would be neat built up.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

girlonbike said:


> That's a huge number. I would think maybe 15k but 25k is a little outrageous. Oh well. It's nice watching the big boys toss around more money than a lot of people have in their 401k.
> 
> Anyway... That's really neat pat! Thanks for taking pics. Sure would be neat built up.


Most people don't even have that any more.


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

girlonbike said:


> Hey man. Long time no see. Hi!


Thanks for the shout out! Law school has put a damper on my bike hobby.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Pat, I hope you continue to share the rebuild/resto process, capped off with the finished product!


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## StanleyButterfly (Nov 4, 2009)

Fo sur Pat. Moar picas!!


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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

Looking forward to seeing more on this project Pat. I see you managed to find a pair of black Preston Petty's. I've been looking for a pair in black for well over a year now. 

Are those bars the original GSM's or are they the Renthals I sent out- the look to have more backsweep?

Keep posting up the photos and updates for us.

Si


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## -Anomie- (Jan 16, 2005)

Nice to see one more. Got a chance to ride (for a few minutes) Wende's bike at Repack last fall, and I have to say, mountain bike geometry has come a long way in the past 30 years , but that's just sour grapes. I'd take one of these in a heartbeat if I had the chance (and money).


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

The grips are NOS Maguras from the late 70's.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Here's a few more pics. Original wheelset with Phil hubs and Uniroyal Nobby tires, regina freewheel.


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## El Sapo Rojo (Feb 24, 2011)

I love the diagonal tubes. Seems like Grant/Rivendell has some strong Breezer influences in his current line of bikes.

Bombadil has the diagonal tube, this Rosco Bubbe has them with asymmetrical curved ends.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

StanleyButterfly said:


> Bad habit IMHO. I would be pissed if somebody clamped my 10 thou bike by the top tube no matter how robust it is.


As a general rule, yes, but if you know what yer doing and when you can do it, it's fine.

Also, that's an adjustable clamp, not the spring loaded, so the experienced wrench can set it for just the perfect touch.

It's like telling Michael Schumacher that he shouldn't be going 57 in a 55mph zone.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

FairfaxPat said:


> Here's a few more pics. Original wheelset with Phil hubs and Uniroyal Nobby tires, regina freewheel.


Awesome...great pics, thanks!


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Also, that's an adjustable clamp, not the spring loaded, so the experienced wrench can set it for just the perfect touch.


The caveat here is if the clamp was set for the seatpost by someone with experience and he unclamps it and hands off the frame to some dweeb to inspect who while trying to be helpful putting it back tries to force it around the top tube. Saw that happen once to a Ti frame and it wasn't pretty.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

MABman said:


> The caveat here is if the clamp was set for the seatpost by someone with experience and he unclamps it and hands off the frame to some dweeb to inspect who while trying to be helpful putting it back tries to force it around the top tube. Saw that happen once to a Ti frame and it wasn't pretty.


^^this is the same reason I try not to let monkeys with hacksaws run around the shop..


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

I gotta point out that I'm the only one who uses my bike stand, there are no Dweebs I let handle this machine, and yes, the clamp is adjustable, and was adjusted for the size of the top tube at the time the pics were taken.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Gotcha Pat. It's just that a lot of people will see your pictures and if they are nOObs, then somewhere in the world, there's going to be another dented top tube. That's pretty much why it is often discussed....not because it pertains to your case. 

Anyhow, I am thrilled to see a Series I Breezer in pictures and hope you keep us updated on your build process and hope even more that you find brake pads more fitting of the bike!


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

FairfaxPat said:


> I gotta point out that I'm the only one who uses my bike stand, there are no Dweebs I let handle this machine, and yes, the clamp is adjustable, and was adjusted for the size of the top tube at the time the pics were taken.


Was just relating an experience, sorry to hijack your thread with it. I am sure you have it covered on your end.

The Breezer is a cool bike, got to handle the MBHOF one a few times back in the CB days and always marveled at how well it was constructed. Thanks for sharing.


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## MABman (Oct 5, 2008)

Weird.


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## sansarret (Mar 17, 2006)

Amazing bike, you are one lucky guy to get the chance to piece it together, can't wait to see it all built up.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

girlonbike said:


> Gotcha Pat. It's just that a lot of people will see your pictures and if they are nOObs, then somewhere in the world, there's going to be another dented top tube. That's pretty much why it is often discussed....not because it pertains to your case.
> 
> Anyhow, I am thrilled to see a Series I Breezer in pictures and hope you keep us updated on your build process and hope even more that you find brake pads more fitting of the bike!


The Kool Stop pads were a major upgrade when they came out BITD, so all the guys used them. However, in the interest of originality, I just scored some original Dia Comp pads from JB today!


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## El Sapo Rojo (Feb 24, 2011)

La beauté de la Rosco est dans l'oeil de celui qui regarde. Votre mauvais goût de vélos est seulement dépassé par votre grossièreté. Mark Nobilette est un bien meilleur constructeur de ces français crapauds vous culte.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Re: Kool Stop.

When these bikes were new they had steel Schwinn S-2 rims and short-arm cantilever brakes. Rim brakes on chrome plating = no brakes. Any modification that got you any more brake was a good one.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Progress...


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

girlonbike said:


> Nice. Whose bike is it?


-----This lucky guy!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

More please....


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

I'm still working on it! Here is one of the small details from BITD. The barrel size on the brake cable doesn't quite fill the hole in the Magura Levers- so you must make a shim and drill a hole in it and slide it up and around the barrel end to get a nice fit. These ones I made from brass sheet- just like the originals.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Finally done! Just finished and rode it today-Sweet!


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

One more...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Not a lot of people can say they've put miles on a Series I. Well done Pat!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

how was it?


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Nice but I must ask. Why zip ties and not frame clips?


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

jeff said:


> Nice but I must ask. Why zip ties and not frame clips?


Zip ties are original equipment, although those are probably NOS.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

hollister said:


> how was it?


People who have always ridden front suspension have no idea what happens to your arms on a rough road with a stiff fork. There is a vibration that I assume is the resonant frequency of the fork and you feel it all the way up to your scapula. In short order your arms go numb and it gets very hard to hang onto the grips.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

One interesting thing I noticed was how light and quick the steering is, yet it still tracks straight ahead really well. As CK pointed out, though, it is stiff and will hammer you on the rough stuff. The sprung saddle is a slight mitigation of the bumps, but not much. Been awhile since I used friction shifters and it took a few minutes to adjust to that and the low power canti brakes, but it was all smiles on the ride! This bike was 1 of 2 that came with the extra long 185mm cranks, the other one being Fred Wolf's. These two frames were the only two to have a special stainless reinforcing collar around the seat post cluster because the owners were both large guys who used a lot of seatpost for the time (not much at all by today's standards, but that was then).


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> People who have always ridden front suspension have no idea what happens to your arms on a rough road with a stiff fork. There is a vibration that I assume is the resonant frequency of the fork and you feel it all the way up to your scapula. In short order your arms go numb and it gets very hard to hang onto the grips.


you don't say..


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

one more-ready to go!


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Repack Rider said:


> although those are probably NOS.


haha! funny!



Repack Rider said:


> People who have always ridden front suspension have no idea what happens to your arms on a rough road with a stiff fork. There is a vibration that I assume is the resonant frequency of the fork and you feel it all the way up to your scapula. In short order your arms go numb and it gets very hard to hang onto the grips.


This forum has no such members.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

FairfaxPat said:


> One interesting thing I noticed was how light and quick the steering is, yet it still tracks straight ahead really well. As CK pointed out, though, it is stiff and will hammer you on the rough stuff. The sprung saddle is a slight mitigation of the bumps, but not much. Been awhile since I used friction shifters and it took a few minutes to adjust to that and the low power canti brakes, but it was all smiles on the ride! This bike was 1 of 2 that came with the extra long 185mm cranks, the other one being Fred Wolf's. These two frames were the only two to have a special stainless reinforcing collar around the seat post cluster because the owners were both large guys who used a lot of seatpost for the time (not much at all by today's standards, but that was then).


Fred Wolf huh? I am using The Google as we speak!


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Fred is the guy who had to repack his bearings after smoking them going down what was then named Repack in honor of that.


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## pinguwin (Aug 20, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> ...and you feel it all the way up to your scapula. In short order your arms go numb and it gets very hard to hang onto the grips.


I started riding in '83 and I've never had these issues. Rode a rigid Attitude for years also, no problems. I've done 14 hour rides on the north shore of Lake Superior (rocks and rocks and rocks) and I felt great afterwards. I suppose a lot has to do with your riding style.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Zip ties are original equipment, although those are probably NOS.


I realize that but it still doesn't answer the question. It's one thing about the clunkers and early bikes that drives me nuts.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

jeff said:


> I realize that but it still doesn't answer the question. It's one thing about the clunkers and early bikes that drives me nuts.


The top tube on my Breezer is a Columbus down tube, which is a larger diameter than the cute clips you refer to.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Yeah, as CK says, the top tube is oversize compared to road bikes of the time, and the Campy clips are too small, so Joe just used zip ties.


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

Pinguin I admire you. You are a true hard man. When I was a kid we didn't have suspension and we were just fine......


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

pinguwin said:


> I started riding in '83 and I've never had these issues. Rode a rigid Attitude for years also, no problems. I've done 14 hour rides on the north shore of Lake Superior (rocks and rocks and rocks) and I felt great afterwards. I suppose a lot has to do with your riding style.


You mean you're not a hamfisted rider?


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Aemmer said:


> Pinguin I admire you. You are a true hard man. When I was a kid we didn't have suspension and we were just fine......


A lot of us don't use suspension now!


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

I thought hamfists sucked up vibration? I gotta change my technique.

But dang! It is pretty fecking cool to see a Series I rebuild here. Total dream bike, zip ties be damned, and I am really stoked that it is out and riding! The blue is suave, to boot.


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

It'll be interesting to see where it ends up!


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## tductape (Mar 31, 2008)

I give the original owner credit for hanging on to a cool piece of history and not just looking to sell. All fixed up and ready to ride again.....


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

Aemmer said:


> I give the original owner credit for hanging on to a cool piece of history and not just looking to sell. All fixed up and ready to ride again.....


Don't be so eager to give out that credit...


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## yo-Nate-y (Mar 5, 2009)

Haha, seriously. 20K is no roll in the hay. Maybe there'll be some time to ride before deep pockets come knocking....


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

You think if it's worth that much, somebody would buy an ad.

edit: Ad on the way, thanks, CK and Pat! Good luck and great job building that up. I probably should have bought the Series II that Jer had in my size. Oh well!


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> The top tube on my Breezer is a Columbus down tube, which is a larger diameter than the cute clips you refer to.


I have a few really cute ones that are 31.8mm. Maybe they weren't available at the time. Just askin...


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## 805MTB (Jul 4, 2010)

the bike looks gorgeous, Pat. great work


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

girlonbike said:


> You think if it's worth that much, somebody would buy an ad.
> 
> edit: Ad on the way, thanks, CK and Pat! Good luck and great job building that up. I probably should have bought the Series II that Jer had in my size. Oh well!


Breezer or Cunningham!

Except...Cunninghams can't handle Repack apparently.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Breezer or Cunningham!
> 
> Except...Cunninghams can't handle Repack apparently.


AFAIK the only Cunningham ever raced at Repack would be CC on his own, and the only reason he was there was that it was a stage in a two day race in 1984. (Stage 2 was the Rockhopper.) Charlie was still on drop bars and skinny tires when the pioneers of "oversize tires" were rethinking the bicycle concept to make bikes faster on rough descents.

Joe's bikes were built specifically to race downhill. Charlie's were not. Joe was/is a great downhiller. Charlie, well there's no way of knowing, is there?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> AFAIK the only Cunningham ever raced at Repack would be CC on his own, and the only reason he was there was that it was a stage in a two day race in 1984. (Stage 2 was the Rockhopper.) Charlie was still on drop bars and skinny tires when the pioneers of "oversize tires" were rethinking the bicycle concept to make bikes faster on rough descents.
> 
> Joe's bikes were built specifically to race downhill. Charlie's were not. Joe was/is a great downhiller. Charlie, well there's no way of knowing, is there?


you didn't keep a record? I thought that's what you did


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## halaburt (Jan 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> AFAIK the only Cunningham ever raced at Repack would be CC on his own, and the only reason he was there was that it was a stage in a two day race in 1984. (Stage 2 was the Rockhopper.) Charlie was still on drop bars and skinny tires when the pioneers of "oversize tires" were rethinking the bicycle concept to make bikes faster on rough descents.
> 
> Joe's bikes were built specifically to race downhill. Charlie's were not. Joe was/is a great downhiller. Charlie, well there's no way of knowing, is there?


Very cool. Did you race the Rockhopper stage the following day?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Wasn't 84 the year CC was the National Vet Champ? I assume the course didn't just go up hill.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

The Ad.....Breezer #5 - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories------A silent auction, accepting bids now.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Hey, Hey, Hey, 415m3, let's be nice now. I don't think CK was putting CC down, as a matter of fact, they are good friends-something you probably didn't know, and I BET you wouldn't say that to his face if he was standing in front of you instead of you hiding behind a keyboard and an internet name,


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## 415m3 (Mar 16, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> AFAIK the only Cunningham ever raced at Repack would be CC on his own, and the only reason he was there was that it was a stage in a two day race in 1984. (Stage 2 was the Rockhopper.) Charlie was still on drop bars and skinny tires when the pioneers of "oversize tires" were rethinking the bicycle concept to make bikes faster on rough descents.
> 
> Joe's bikes were built specifically to race downhill. Charlie's were not. Joe was/is a great downhiller. Charlie, well there's no way of knowing, is there?


Can't you open your yap without insulting someone? I call you out because it's warranted and prefaced by your own thickheaded (and misguided) arrogance. You seem to take offense to anyone who doesn't fit your own narrow view of history. Go post on the other forum. Please.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

FairfaxPat said:


> The Ad.....Breezer #5 - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories------A silent auction, accepting bids now.


If it wasn't for the zip ties I'd buy it right now.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

FairfaxPat said:


> Hey, Hey, Hey, 415m3, let's be nice now. I don't think CK was putting CC down, as a matter of fact, they are good friends-something you probably didn't know, and I BET you wouldn't say that to his face if he was standing in front of you instead of you hiding behind a keyboard and an internet name,


that's not how it reads. here and elsewhere.

I'd take that bet


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

I guess you don't get it either-Charlie Cunningham was a Very Good cross country racer, but he didn't choose to compete in the downhill specific events at the time, for whatever his reasons. I think CK's slightly sardonic style made you think he was putting CC down, but that is the farthest thing from the truth, and , for what it's worth, CC is a very good friend of mine, too.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

With respect, CKay seems to have a hard-on for putting CC down and no one else. It isn't his style since he doesn't do it to anyone else. I don't get why since it doesn't come out in person. But this isn't the first time that he has taken that line on-line. This nonsense about the bikes isn't about CC, at least not originally, rather it started with the assertion by CKay, not based in reality or the early daze race results, that CC's bikes couldn't handle Repack. They could and they did. And the riders who raced them ate everyone's lunch until the corporate teams took over.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

This is getting pretty humorous now--" My BMW is better than your Mercedes"-I don't think it really matters, it is all opinions, and opinions are like *******---everybody's got one. All I know is that CK and CC are really good friends and I like them both.


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## rockcrusher (Aug 28, 2003)

All pissing matches aside this is a really amazing bike and a great read on the process of restoring a piece of mountain biking's early history. Like having an eye inside ferrari's restoration garage when they are putting together a 250GTO. 

Hope the new owner takes it out and rides it some!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> I spent the entire day with Jacquie Phelan while we drove to Davis and talked to a UC class. I was at Offhand Manor hanging with CC the other day while I gave Jacquie a guitar lesson. In the well-known 1974 criterium shot shown on this forum I am riding on one of CC's seatposts and he is shown leaping in excitement. In 1980 Charlie traveled in our group to Crested Butte. I have known Charlie since before I ever rode fat tires, and Jacquie is probably the only person who sees him more often than I do.
> 
> You guys weren't there in the '70s when CC openly ridiculed our ridiculous, heavy, low-tech bikes and our crazy downhill activities, but I was and if I stick the needle in a little about it now it's because he laughed at us then. Anyone who wanted to race Repack had the opportunity, and Charlie chose not to participate or even to hang out with those who did.
> 
> ...


saved


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

I spent the entire day with Jacquie Phelan while we drove to Davis and talked to a UC class. I was at Offhand Manor hanging with CC the other day while I gave Jacquie a guitar lesson. In the well-known 1974 criterium shot shown on this forum I am riding on one of CC's seatposts and he is shown leaping in excitement. In 1980 Charlie traveled in our group to Crested Butte. I have known Charlie since before I ever rode fat tires, and Jacquie is probably the only person who sees him more often than I do. 

You guys weren't there in the '70s when CC openly ridiculed our ridiculous, heavy, low-tech bikes and our crazy downhill activities, but I was and if I stick the needle in a little about it now it's because he laughed at us then. Anyone who wanted to race Repack had the opportunity, and Charlie chose not to participate or even to hang out with those who did. 

My relationship with someone I have known for forty years and see often is no one else's business. I have seen a lot nastier things posted on this thread about me, by people who do not know me, than I have ever posted here about Charlie, whom I know very well. 

The people who are worshiped here are not icons to those who have known them for decades.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

I know I'm off topic here (or maybe I'm on topic) but, being good friends, have you spent much time riding a Cunningham CK?


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

One of the things that has kept me from contributing more to this forum than I do, is the combination of immaturity, ignorance, and arrogance that is exhibited by many of the members. I believe that those who are attacking Charlie in the this thread are a good example.


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## iamthewalrus (May 20, 2009)

All this talk about the how it is the DH-centric activities and bikes of the first "mountain bikes" (versus the more XC oriented style of someone like CC), which set the fire under the mountain bike boom and is potentially the reason why mountain bikes are banned from Marin's single-tracks. Thoughts?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

fat tire trader said:


> One of the things that has kept me from contributing more to this forum than I do, is the combination of immaturity, ignorance, and arrogance ...


Well said and agreed. Riding bikes and talking about bikes should be fun. If you get upset you're probably doing it wrong.

And great bike Pat!! I'd love to give that bike a spin before it makes it's way into a museum.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

fat tire trader said:


> One of the things that has kept me from contributing more to this forum than I do, is the combination of immaturity, ignorance, and arrogance that is exhibited by many of the members. I believe that those who are attacking Charlie in the this thread are a good example.


My question was not intended as an attack, I was just curious as to how many hours CK has spent on one of CC's bikes. NO immaturity, ignorance, and arrogance intended- sorry.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Repack Rider said:


> I spent the entire day with Jacquie Phelan while we drove to Davis and talked to a UC class. I was at Offhand Manor hanging with CC the other day while I gave Jacquie a guitar lesson. In the well-known 1974 criterium shot shown on this forum I am riding on one of CC's seatposts and he is shown leaping in excitement. In 1980 Charlie traveled in our group to Crested Butte. I have known Charlie since before I ever rode fat tires, and Jacquie is probably the only person who sees him more often than I do.
> 
> You guys weren't there in the '70s when CC openly ridiculed our ridiculous, heavy, low-tech bikes and our crazy downhill activities, but I was and if I stick the needle in a little about it now it's because he laughed at us then. Anyone who wanted to race Repack had the opportunity, and Charlie chose not to participate or even to hang out with those who did.
> 
> ...


You're right CK, we weren't there. We can only go on what we're seeing.

30+ years ago CC ridiculed the Klunkers to your face. Something we wouldn't know.

Now you get to 'stick the needle' on a world wide social platform (that you know CC doesn't use), with an international audience, openly putting down CC's body of work...and then suggest he's a friend of yours?

Thats strange to me.

I think the negative things being posted about you are brought on by some of your posts.
Ironic that Chris I would post about immaturity and arrogance.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

laffeaux said:


> Well said and agreed. Riding bikes and talking about bikes should be fun. If you get upset you're probably doing it wrong.
> 
> And great bike Pat!! I'd love to give that bike a spin before it makes it's way into a museum.


It was all smiles riding it the other day!


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

stan lee said:


> My question was not intended as an attack, I was just curious as to how many hours CK has spent on one of CC's bikes. NO immaturity, ignorance, and arrogance intended- sorry.


Your question was not one of the comments that I was referring to.
Chris


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

BTW, here is a stock Series I. Note the top tube clips...
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QFft-QdXtu7A-clL9B_5ctMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

OK, your point is? In '77 Campy didn't make clips big enough, and so Joe used zip-ties.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

My point is that someone asked why the bike didn't have clips. The experts chimed in that the bikes weren't made with clips. I was clarifying/correcting by showing that the stock bikes did come with clips. And for the technically inclined, it is clear that the clips used aren't Campy - probably Dia Compe.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

You know, that was Jeff reacting to my pic of the finished bike who asked why zip-ties, not clips were used on the Breezer. This Breezer had a plastic clip on it that was stretched around the tube when I started.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Look back, the answer to Jeff's comment was given as though it applied to the bikes generally, but that isn't correct. As my picture shows, the bikes came with clips originally - at least as an option. So, to keep the record correct, I am pointing this out. Campy clips werent the only option and the other clips work just fine (though zip ties probably work better).


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

In that picture you posted, the bike wasn't stock-it has a head tube badge, which weren't made until '81 or '82 for the Series 11 bikes. So it was not stock in the picture, nor are the tires original, I worked with Joe and he told me specifically that he used zip-ties-so what is your point?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

ok. you are awesome.


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Here is a pic of Otis with his recently restored Series 1, #3 Breezer. As you can see in the picture he has added a head tube badge, upgraded the brakes to Mafac units (they came out in '79) and also a downtube name badge that's been added- all not stock-But he has the stock zip-ties. The rims were upgraded to alloy rims when they came available in '79 as were all the other bikes because they worked better.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

it has a headbadge, those aren't stock zip ties


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Hahahahaha...........


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

fat tire trader said:


> Your question was not one of the comments that I was referring to.
> Chris





fat tire trader said:


> Your question was not one of the comments that I was referring to.
> Chris


Good to hear Chris because I honestly meant no disrespect. I asked because I don't think anyone who has spent time riding one of CC's bikes, a type II fork or has used an RC brake can deny that Cunningham's products were functionally superior to anything else being used in the late 70's/early 80's. One of the things I appreciate about both CC and Joe is how humble they are in public about their contributions.

Great restoration Pat- I wish I had the money to buy such a gem.


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## kumachan (Mar 24, 2012)

That is one beautiful bike, I wish I was flush enough to bid on her! Congrats on a job well done!

I'm new to this forum/site and am happy to read that the general internet *****iness is alive and well here as well.  Don't know what the generational span on the VRC forum is,perhaps there are a lot of younger people here, but RR hardly strikes me as one who would post something (that could be interpreted as derogatory) and not say it to your or the subject's face. Just my impression, FWIW.


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

I had a Ritchey before my Cunningham. Back then, I did a lot of heavily loaded off road touring and cross country racing. When I compare the bikes. The Ritchey was smoother riding. The Cunningham was lighter and more precise handling. The Cunningham was a lot better for loaded touring, while the Ritchey flexed too much, in comparison, under heavy loads. I was probably faster on the climbs with the Cunningham. My times down Repack and other downhills probably weren't different on the two bikes. Since the Cunningham was lighter and stiffer, it was more jittery on rough downhills, but better on technical single-track.
I don't think that one bike, Cunningham, Ritchey, Breezer, etc. was more culpable in the banning of single-tracks here. It had more to do with the older generation of hikers and equestrians who wanted to keep their mountain for themselves, and a small percentage of cyclists that were not as considerate of the other users of the mountain as they should have been. I was at many of the early MMWD, Open Space, and GGNRA meetings when the elected boards limited bicycle use. I tried to speak on behalf of the cyclists, but was not successful. I was in my teens then, and it was my first experience speaking at board meetings.
My favorite downhill bike is still my 39 Elgin









Chris


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

Great insight and great photo! I know you've had a lot of experience on a bunch of different bikes so it's nice to hear your take on it.

Mark


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

fat tire trader said:


> My favorite downhill bike is still my 39 Elgin


Great pic!!!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Agreed. Very cool pic.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

fat tire trader said:


> I had a Ritchey before my Cunningham. Back then, I did a lot of heavily loaded off road touring and cross country racing. When I compare the bikes. The Ritchey was smoother riding. The Cunningham was lighter and more precise handling. The Cunningham was a lot better for loaded touring, while the Ritchey flexed too much, in comparison, under heavy loads. I was probably faster on the climbs with the Cunningham. My times down Repack and other downhills probably weren't different on the two bikes. Since the Cunningham was lighter and stiffer, it was more jittery on rough downhills, but better on technical single-track.
> I don't think that one bike, Cunningham, Ritchey, Breezer, etc. was more culpable in the banning of single-tracks here. It had more to do with the older generation of hikers and equestrians who wanted to keep their mountain for themselves, and a small percentage of cyclists that were not as considerate of the other users of the mountain as they should have been. I was at many of the early MMWD, Open Space, and GGNRA meetings when the elected boards limited bicycle use. I tried to speak on behalf of the cyclists, but was not successful. I was in my teens then, and it was my first experience speaking at board meetings.
> My favorite downhill bike is still my 39 Elgin
> 
> Chris


Where's your Cunningham now? :devil:


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

In my basement.:nono:


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

fat tire trader said:


> In my basement.:nono:


Whats your address again?


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

not relevant


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

When I was speaking to Joe recently, he told me that a few people have made replicas of these first Breezers. I think that Joe calls this design the twin lateral.
Does anyone know about, have details, or pictures of any of the replicas? 
Chris


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Joe calls it a bi lateral, or twin lateral frame. Dr. S, a member of this forum and of Retrobike, is building a replica in England-his Co. is called Strangelove Cycles.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

fat tire trader said:


> not relevant


Are you okay? You almost got banned as a spammer last night.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

FairfaxPat said:


> Joe calls it a bi lateral, or twin lateral frame. Dr. S, a member of this forum and of Retrobike, is building a replica in England-his Co. is called Strangelove Cycles.


Sharky also has a fake one in Switzerland.

Great bike, Pat!


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## 82Sidewinder (Jun 28, 2006)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Sharky also has a fake one in Switzerland.
> 
> Great bike, Pat!


I'm still in disbelief that there is a Breezer Series 1 for sale! Pat, very nice job on the restoration. It's a beautiful bike!:thumbsup:

Since I know I will never own an original, can anyone here recommend a frame builder in the US that would build a replica Breezer Series 1 frame/fork?

Craig


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Talking to JB today, he said there is a replica in Germany, also. He said he had over 50 hours building each frame @ $300 per frame, $750 fully built when new. That equates to less than $6/hour because materials came out of that $300 also!


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

FairfaxPat said:


> That equates to less than $6/hour because materials came out of that $300 also!


That was probably double minimum wage back then so equivalent to $16 an hour now. My first job was in the early 80's (age 14) and I was making just over $3/hr....it's crazy that it seems like yesterday. Where is the old guy emoticon?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I vote for royalties for JB to make up for his minimum wage payment for the bike.


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## stan lee (Mar 5, 2006)

girlonbike said:


> I vote for royalties for JB to make up for his minimum wage payment for the bike.


Now your talking G but Joes to nice of a guy to take any credit/royalties.


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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

FairfaxPat said:


> Joe calls it a bi lateral, or twin lateral frame. Dr. S, a member of this forum, is building a replica in England-his Co. is called Strangelove Cycles.


Thats the cat out of the bag right there! I was planning on flooding the market with fakes and retiring to Fairfax on the proceeds.:madman:

Seriously though, its been real fun working on this project over the last two years. I really want to get this replica as close as possible. I don't want it to just look like a series 1 but ride like one too, so much care has been taken in getting everything right. Joe has been a great help and the notes he sent over are very fastidious. There is no guess work to get in the way, every nut, bolt, tube spec and technique has been explained fully by the master himself. Some of the tubes used are obsolete and have taken time to aquire, but patience has paid off and I'm just about to light the torch.

It will only ever be a replica though, but its as close as I'm ever going to get to experiencing these iconic bikes. Of course the beauty of a replica is it can be riden as hard as you like without a worry, just like those guys out racing fake vintage Ferrari GTOs.

Good luck with the sale Pat. I do hope it goes to a rider who will appreciate it as a bike rather than an investment.

Si


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Great project Doc. So I'll assume paint has been chosen? Parts spec?


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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

jeff said:


> Great project Doc. So I'll assume paint has been chosen? Parts spec?


It will be nickel plated as per original, and parts will be original spec right down to the contents of the original tool roll. I've managed to find everything NOS over the last few years. I have the original 78 spec Dia Compe cantis and steel rims too as well as the later prefered 'upgrades' of Ukai gold alloy rims and Mafacs to choose from. Guess it has to be zip ties along the tube tube also!

I'm busy restoring a 1940s Myford lathe at the moment, but as soon as I pick up the torch in a few weeks I'll be documenting the build for those interested.


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## 82Sidewinder (Jun 28, 2006)

Dr S said:


> It will be nickel plated as per original, and parts will be original spec right down to the contents of the original tool roll. I've managed to find everything NOS over the last few years. I have the original 78 spec Dia Compe cantis and steel rims too as well as the later prefered 'upgrades' of Ukai gold alloy rims and Mafacs to choose from. Guess it has to be zip ties along the tube tube also!
> 
> I'm busy restoring a 1940s Myford lathe at the moment, but as soon as I pick up the torch in a few weeks I'll be documenting the build for those interested.


Amazing level of authenticity! I would be very interested in seeing the build come together. Were the original steel wheels Schwinn S-2's?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Dr S said:


> It will be nickel plated as per original, and parts will be original spec right down to the contents of the original tool roll. I've managed to find everything NOS over the last few years. I have the original 78 spec Dia Compe cantis and steel rims too as well as the later prefered 'upgrades' of Ukai gold alloy rims and Mafacs to choose from. Guess it has to be zip ties along the tube tube also!
> 
> I'm busy restoring a 1940s Myford lathe at the moment, but as soon as I pick up the torch in a few weeks I'll be documenting the build for those interested.


Excellent. I would love to see the progress if you don't mind doing a build thread. I'm sure you'll get lots of interest here. Cool!


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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

82Sidewinder said:


> Amazing level of authenticity! I would be very interested in seeing the build come together. Were the original steel wheels Schwinn S-2's?


Original wheels were Araya 26 x 1.75 in steel on low flange Phil Wood hubs. #1 had allen bolt hubs and the rest had Campag Record QRs. Spokes were Swiss DT, SS, 14-gauge on all ten bikes according to the notes that Joe kindly sent.

Now this is out in the open I might get off my ass and make some better progress.:thumbsup:


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Actually the spec varied bike to bike somewhat. On #5, which I just finished, the hubs were Phil wood with allen bolts, and I know #6, which JB now owns also, has allen bolts. Jer Heidenreich's #7 was sold as a frame and fork only and he built it up himself, although the parts spec is very similar to the others, as there were only so many choices among parts in those days. I believe all the bikes were upgraded to the alloy rims in '79 when they came out, and some were upgraded to Mafac canti's at about that time also because they worked better, but #5 is still rockin' the original DiaComp canti's.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

Dr S said:


> It will be nickel plated as per original, and parts will be original spec right down to the contents of the original tool roll. I've managed to find everything NOS over the last few years. I have the original 78 spec Dia Compe cantis and steel rims too as well as the later prefered 'upgrades' of Ukai gold alloy rims and Mafacs to choose from. Guess it has to be zip ties along the tube tube also!
> 
> I'm busy restoring a 1940s Myford lathe at the moment, but as soon as I pick up the torch in a few weeks I'll be documenting the build for those interested.


 How about some shots of the lathe? That's quite the endeavor.


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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks for the info Pat. Everyday is a school day.

I'd love to see some more detail shots of the frame on #5. Rear dropouts and the junction between the laterals and the seat tube would be great.

Another question for you. Was Wende Crag's frame smaller than the other nine? If not, just how tall is she? 

@Jeff, I don't want to hijack this thread, so when i start a build thread on the replica I will throw in a few photos of the old lathe for you.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)




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## Dr S (Dec 7, 2007)

Thanks Hollister. Thats just what i need. Any more close ups?


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Wende is probably 5'7" or so-her frame was the same size as the others.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Gorgeous.

Dr. S....too late on the hijack! Better start your own thread now.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Dr S said:


> Original wheels were Araya 26 x 1.75 in steel on low flange Phil Wood hubs. #1 had allen bolt hubs and the rest had Campag Record QRs. Spokes were Swiss DT, SS, 14-gauge on all ten bikes according to the notes that Joe kindly sent.


I built my original wheels (Breezer #2) on Durham hubs because it would have taken awhile to get the Phils and I didn't feel like waiting awhile. The bike shop had the Durhams in stock.


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

For those that don't know, Jack Durham was the man that designed and made Bullseye hubs, cranks, etc. I like Bullseye hubs better than Phil, because they are easier to change the bearings, and I think that they are lighter, since they have aluminum shells instead of strrl like the early Phils.
Chris


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## DoubleCentury (Nov 12, 2005)

It's Roger Durham.

MOMBAT: Bullseye History


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## fat tire trader (Sep 18, 2010)

You're right, I got his name confused with Jack from Cook Bros. I used to be Roger Durham's grandson's tutor.
Chris


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

fat tire trader said:


> You're right, I got his name confused with Jack from Cook Bros. I used to be Roger Durham's grandson's tutor.
> Chris


Haha! Tutor for what?


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## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

The bike sold, didn't it? Such a neat part of this history. I got to ride Wende's, too (for a moment) and I'll never forget it.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

scooterendo said:


> The bike sold, didn't it? Such a neat part of this history. I got to ride Wende's, too (for a moment) and I'll never forget it.


Yep. Unlikely it'll be seen again (at least in the near future).

I got to pedal Wende's around a bit too. I want to see what it'd be like to really put the bike through some paces!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

I thought I had some pics of you riding it Billy, but I'm not finding em right now

in the meantime, somebody get busy with photoshop


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

Remind me again who the helmet police is?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> I thought I had some pics of you riding it Billy, but I'm not finding em right now
> 
> in the meantime, somebody get busy with photoshop


Did his toupe slide forward while braking?

:thumbsup:


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## FairfaxPat (Jan 29, 2008)

Another one...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Ouch guys....very ouch.  Photoshop me a better toupe!


Remind me again who the first one down the mountain was that day?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> Ouch guys....very ouch.  Photoshop me a better toupe!
> 
> Remind me again who the first one down the mountain was that day?


that would be me, but I stopped to take pictures(and I'm slow as sin anyway). photo evidence says it was Billy

stopwatch says something else..


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## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

I think I'd make just one little change to the bike...these. I've always had a thing for the old hex grips.


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