# Commencal Clash 24 ETA



## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

Looks like Commencal has pushed the Clash 24 release to June on their ordering website. Anyone have any info on this? I'm interested but I'll be needing the bike for the summer.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

I have a preorder in already. This news kind of sucks. Was hoping to see one a little after May 30. 

Email them and see what Clay says.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

svinyard said:


> I have a preorder in already. This news kind of sucks. Was hoping to see one a little after May 30.
> 
> Email them and see what Clay says.


Yeah, same here.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Same boat, though no pre-order in yet for reasons that I won't get into here. Tempting to just buy a Rokkusuta 24 and call it a day, but the Clash looks worth waiting for.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Clay at Commencal said early June was their expectation now. I think it'll be worth the wait. Dan I like that Rokussuta but unlike the 20", it almost seems like it's a 26" frame with 24" wheels and a good BB height.

If only they could do that but use a mix of the Flow adjustable front and back along with Rocky's ride9 stuff (to adjust BB height). That would be the ultimate grow bike. Nevertheless, I'll have to just wait the extra week or two (hopefully).


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Rokkusuta 24 is definitely a good bike, make no mistake. Chainstays and wheelbase are quite a bit longer than the Clash though, and the Clash has a much steeper seat tube. After picking up a used 2018 GG Shred Dogg over the winter I'm sold on steep STAs. The GG is so much more planted on steep climbs than my Reign ever was. I also want/need to run a Machete JUNIT 24, and the A2C is significantly shorter than the stock Rokkusuta fork. There's also that "other" reason.


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## SactoGeoff (Aug 11, 2017)

"other" reason? Don't leave me hanging like that!


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

$130 for shipping definitely stung. I think it was $40 to ship my son's Rokkusuta 20. I could nearly drive to Golden and back to pick it up for that. C'est la vie....


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

Clay got back to me, too -- early June. I'll hold out since the spawn seems long for the pedally stuff we'll do locally. The clash will do service as a park and "enduro" bike (climb to downhill).

Any word on what they'll weigh?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah Dan, the shipping gutted me too. Damn I could book a one way flight for the bike for that cost and just put it together myself. It's cheaper than the Rokkusutta tho and has better gearing and suspension for sure so it's hard to complain.

Heet, the stock weight is 28.6lbs. The wheels and tires are pretty heavy. We'll only be using those for lift days or big shuttles/races.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

heavy but around what I expected. I might build up a lighter wheelset with a gx cassette... What're you guys in the know doing for 24" wheelsets?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> heavy but around what I expected. I might build up a lighter wheelset with a gx cassette... What're you guys in the know doing for 24" wheelsets?


Stan's wheels 32h XD and Maxtion trail tires and sram XD cassette will have ours down to 25ish lbs.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

RMCDan said:


> $130 for shipping definitely stung.


Good lord, that's downright theft. I thought they had free shipping? My Transition 29er was only $80.00 shipped to Denver from Bellingham WA.

FYI in the future (If they let you) get box size and weight and do www.bikeflights.com to print yourself a label to send to them and have UPS pick it up. My buddy just turned me on to www.bikeflights.com. I just shipped a used 29er to Maine for $62.30 with bike flights. It was a HUGE box too, a 62cm Giant road bike box.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

heet said:


> heavy but around what I expected. I might build up a lighter wheelset with a gx cassette... What're you guys in the know doing for 24" wheelsets?


Duroc JUNIT wheels with a XX1 cassette I got for a song.

Commencal has X1 and X01 cassettes pretty heavily discounted in their clearance section as well.



GSJ1973 said:


> Good lord, that's downright theft. I thought they had free shipping? My Transition 29er was only $80.00 shipped to Denver from Bellingham WA.
> 
> FYI in the future (If they let you) get box size and weight and do www.bikeflights.com to print yourself a label to send to them and have UPS pick it up. My buddy just turned me on to www.bikeflights.com. I just shipped a used 29er to Maine for $62.30 with bike flights. It was a HUGE box too, a 62cm Giant road bike box.


Yeah, knowing BikeFlights pricing I was shocked. Could ask I guess.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

RMCDan said:


> Duroc JUNIT wheels with a XX1 cassette I got for a song.
> 
> Commencal has X1 and X01 cassettes pretty heavily discounted in their clearance section as well.


Can I ask where you got the Duroc wheelset? They are pricey on the hayes website.

The Commencal site now lists late June.... Bummer.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Sounds like the June 24th date on the site is pretty firm. Wish it was sooner, but it least we can stop wondering. I was also told that pre-orders are going to be air shipped, which I guess explains the rate. Would have been nice to have ground as an option. I'm not that far from Golden and I've waited this long already....


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Updated pics, video and description on their site now. No more photoshopped stuff. Looks good! I like the integrated fender too (no zipties). Fox and sychros have one like that but it doesn't cover the stanchions, which is terrible. This seems to.

Love that new ultra thin protaper bar setup on there too. Wish is wasnt ugly yellow branding tho. Need to cover that up with something or hit it with some paint/sticker.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Looking good! We have that integrated fender on his 20" and it's great. The thin Protaper bars are great, too.

I hope they have the wrong crankset installed in the pics. The previous pics and everything else I could find indicated that the 1000-series cranks used a 94 BCD spider, so I bought a 30t AB oval ring in 94 BCD. I'll be pissed if they're direct-mount.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Looking good! We have that integrated fender on his 20" and it's great. The thin Protaper bars are great, too.
> 
> I hope they have the wrong crankset installed in the pics. The previous pics and everything else I could find indicated that the 1000-series cranks used a 94 BCD spider, so I bought a 30t AB oval ring in 94 BCD. I'll be pissed if they're direct-mount.


Yeah the cranks spec indicates a t1000 Eagle crank. Hard to say. But I'm guessing those pics are pretty accurate.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

svinyard said:


> Updated pics, video and description on their site now. No more photoshopped stuff. Looks good! I like the integrated fender too (no zipties). Fox and sychros have one like that but it doesn't cover the stanchions, which is terrible. This seems to.
> 
> Love that new ultra thin protaper bar setup on there too. Wish is wasnt ugly yellow branding tho. Need to cover that up with something or hit it with some paint/sticker.


Looks great. And is that a port for internal dropper routing?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> Looks great. And is that a port for internal dropper routing?


Yeah, all of the cables are internally routed including a port for the Dropper with a black grommet


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Apparently the bikes are shipping out Monday! Hoping its some sort of fast shipping. Eitherway, new bike week!


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Got a shipping notification yesterday. Updated tracking shows delivery scheduled for tomorrow.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Lucky! We shipped yesterday as well. Arriving Thurs tho. Hoping Wed works out as the kid is in a mtb camp all this week.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Lucky! We shipped yesterday as well. Arriving Thurs tho.


I guess that makes sense, you're a lot farther from Golden than I am. I'm just stoked it shipped on the day it was actually supposed to.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

This is definitely a sick bike that was worth the wait. Need to get his Dominions on stat though as the stock brakes seem like they're junk. RD and brake calipers were adjusted perfectly right out of the box, so kudos to Commencal on the assembly.

ETA: The McLeod Nino shock seems real nice. Stoked to have finally have real adjustable LSC on his bike and not just a useless lockout.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

Link to youtube unboxing video?


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Hah, no, this is the closest you'll get from me:

__
http://instagr.am/p/BzMhTuxnzLf/


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

Nice. How tall is he?


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

I think he's somewhere between 51" and 52" these days.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

I put on a dhf front and rode with little man today. He loved it, no joke. Commencal did an awesome job. Weight tubeless with provided pedals 30.2lbs.

Good : geometry, suspension is solid, protaper grip setup, nx group and 155mm cranks, decent pedals, internal routing with port for dropper, dub bb and boost f/r, tubeless ready rims 

Bad : Vee tires weigh as much as minion dhfs with shorter nobs, boost rear with shimano freehub fits nx cassette but won't take an xd cassette, brake levers are 4 finger and junky though my kid had no problem modulating them (move them way inboard so they can pull them like 2 finger levers), heavy nx cassette

The bad is mostly minor quibbles and fixing it oem would probably increase the price.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

They clearly went big on the frame design, suspension, crankset and cockpit and went cheap on wheels, brakes and drivetrain to hit their pricepoint. Not much to complain about for $2k, really. The build is pretty comparable to the "Origin" builds available on the Clash and Meta AM models that go for $2300, and there are a lot of adult bikes out there that are spec'ed similar or lower that go for $3k. I'm just happy they didn't put NX Eagle on it.

My $10 digital fish scale says 31.4 lbs bone stock with tubes in the tires. That's a bit yikes-inducing. Going to be interesting to see how much weight gets dropped when I put on the Duroc wheels with tubeless DHFs and XX1 cassette.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Is this a DH specific bike? Cause not sure why someone would pay $2K for a 31# bike when a $2300 Maxwell will get you a 23# bike. You'll spend more in the price difference just trying to get close to the weight.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Suns_PSD said:


> Is this a DH specific bike? Cause not sure why someone would pay $2K for a 31# bike when a $2300 Maxwell will get you a 23# bike. You'll spend more in the price difference just trying to get close to the weight.


2300$ Maxwell is 25lbs

3k$ Maxwell is 24lbs


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## 2melow (Jan 5, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> Is this a DH specific bike? Cause not sure why someone would pay $2K for a 31# bike when a $2300 Maxwell will get you a 23# bike. You'll spend more in the price difference just trying to get close to the weight.


The Clash 24 is more of a park/DH specific bike at that weight of 31 pounds (wouldn't want to XC it really) where the Maxwell 24 is more of a XC/Trail bike that can do some park (but not designed for park) at 100mm of travel. More of an all-arounder trail bike. Pull the SRAM X1 cranks/ NX 11 cassette off the Commencal and I bet you drop the Commencal weight 2 pounds. Those cranks and cassette are boat anchors.

Maxwell 24 Special Build is on sale under $2000

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2417817/

And killer price on a Maxwell 24 with Stans Crest MK3's, a KS Dropper Post for $2299

https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2602249/


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Dude, this thing is a beast of a sendy trail bike. Its not akin to a 120mm adult trail bike but more like a Mini-Bronson\Troy\Clash. Just because its got 145 travel doesn't mean its a DH sled at all. My 7yo just did 4hrs with his team on this bike and about 14mi (lots of downhill with some XC climbs, black diamond gnar). He sent a bunch of gaps and steeper skinny-to-drops he's never done before and LOVED IT. I've got ours down to 26lbs. Stock its right at about 30lb, not 31. The stock wheels and tires are burly/heavy but they'll be great for DH races. Suspension is a total game changer. I expected the fork to be this good but the rear end is really awesome too. WAY different than the Rockshox stuff with a light rider tune.

Side note: If you are airing up your fork, make sure you screw your shock pump on ALL THE WAY everytime. The fork auto-equalizes the neg/pos chambers but oddly enough you have to screw down the pump extra or it wont happen. It'll report the PSI and allow you add pressure in like you would do with any Fox fork...but it doesn't equalize until you add those extra few turns of the pump. I screwed this up for a bit as our fork sucked down to 30mm of travel lol. Figured it out finally.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

2melow said:


> The Clash 24 is more of a park/DH specific bike at that weight of 31 pounds (wouldn't want to XC it really) where the Maxwell 24 is more of a XC/Trail bike that can do some park (but not designed for park) at 100mm of travel. More of an all-arounder trail bike.
> 
> Pull the SRAM X1 cranks/ NX 11 cassette off there and I bet you drop the Commencal weight 2 pounds. Those cranks and cassette are boat anchors.


That makes total sense, thanks for clarifying. 
Definitely not appropriate for my 7 year old girl. She's a great little trail rider, but no bike park shredder. 
At only 48#s currently she only uses right at half her Ripcord's suspension travel. It's like she is riding a 22# HT until she smashes something, it literally doesn't move which from an efficient stand point is probably great. 
Good luck with the rad bikes.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

svinyard said:


> Stan's wheels 32h XD and Maxtion trail tires and sram XD cassette will have ours down to 25ish lbs.


Are you using crest mk3s? 23mm ID isn't a problem?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> Are you using crest mk3s? 23mm ID isn't a problem?


Yeah. It's all good man. Tire profile is really nice with the Maxtion 2.3". I'm running him at 18/20 psi.

It might not be ideal with the stock tires tho.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Also if you remove the down tube armor, there is a sweet, hidden routing port you can use for installing the dropper real easy. Life saver.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

RMCDan said:


> Going to be interesting to see how much weight gets dropped when I put on the Duroc wheels with tubeless DHFs and XX1 cassette.


This dropped nearly 3 lbs. That's with Hayes D-series rotors which are not light. Now sits at 28.7 per the fish scale (which seems to be pretty accurate, checked it with a 1 gal container of water and it read 8.2 lbs).



Suns_PSD said:


> At only 48#s currently she only uses right at half her Ripcord's suspension travel. It's like she is riding a 22# HT until she smashes something, it literally doesn't move which from an efficient stand point is probably great.


Something is not right there. What pressure are you running in the shock? How much sag? She should be ~25% into the travel just sitting there.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Also if you remove the down tube armor, there is a sweet, hidden routing port you can use for installing the dropper real easy. Life saver.


Did you not use the downtube port at all then?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Did you not use the downtube port at all then?


I definitely used the downtube port and grommet. It was just impossible to get the housing to make the turn at the 
bottom and I didnt have a nice magnetic routing tool. After flailing a bit I removed the armor piece and found a nice rectangular access hole that let me easily fish the housing upward into the seat tube. Very handy.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Ah, gotcha. I was assuming I'd have to pull the BB to get it up the seat tube like I had to with his Spawn. Good to know.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Ah, gotcha. I was assuming I'd have to pull the BB to get it up the seat tube like I had to with his Spawn. Good to know.


Yeah me too...and I had just pulled it twice to swap to shimano and then again to remove spacers. Lots of unexpected stuff that was built into this bike. They did a REALLY nice job on the little things. It's a lb heavier than I expected but we can deal with that.

Side note, our 125mm KS Lev Integea is too long. He can just deal with it for now and custom set the height until he grows some more. He pedals fine but his leg is at full extension when it's all the way up. I was going to try to use some fishing line but he said it looked bad and didnt want it lol.

It turned out nice (crappy pic):


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

RMCDan said:


> This dropped nearly 3 lbs. That's with Hayes D-series rotors which are not light. Now sits at 28.7 per the fish scale (which seems to be pretty accurate, checked it with a 1 gal container of water and it read 8.2 lbs).


Got a similar weight with Stans Neo hubs, spank rims, dhf front, maxtion rear. Stock wheel/tire was 6lbs. That's with a ton of sealant b/c I couldn't get the sucker to keep air.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Suns_PSD said:


> Is this a DH specific bike? Cause not sure why someone would pay $2K for a 31# bike when a $2300 Maxwell will get you a 23# bike. You'll spend more in the price difference just trying to get close to the weight.


But if you are getting a XC/trail bike for a kid, why not just get a hardtail, commencal has the Meta HT also... just saying


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Any first hand review from the actual lil riders? I assume that is not their first bike, so how does it compare, to whatever they rode before...? My kid is a small 9y and around 51" tall, I was worried about the stand over and control. It doesn't help that he can't test ride it around Las Vegas NV...


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

We are pretty hyped on it but for us, it's by far the best FS kids bike we've ridden and that includes 3k$+ Lil Shredders with Fox suspension etc. Ours is tricked out a bit tho. The manitou suspension stuff is unreal, especially the shock too. Cant stress enough how much of a gamechanger that is over adult suspension. 

The brakes are lame (but functional) and the wheels and tires are heavy (we save them for the few uplift days, which is nice to have two wheelsets). The frame is 1lb heavier than I hoped. Stans Crest wheels, left over XT brakes, Maxtion tires and I got a smoking deal on an X01 10-42 cassette. Ours is 27.1 lbs with 125mm dropper and that's been great so far

The kid LOVES it and the confidence boost jumping from his Spawn Yama Jama 20" is unreal. Way faster on the downs, corners and even climbs better on the steep sections, tho a lot is the bigger tires and traction I think. I'm sure the weight isn't ideal for a XC whip but we dont have any races here. It's all up and down on the mountain. Black diamond tech and brake bumps are no longer braking situations (within reason) and he's hitting some of the black freeride gap lines (not all of the big jumps but some) with the older kids on his team. Geo has been really nice too. He can manual a bit and can still ride the skinny 200ft horseshoe log ride at our skills park on it (I cant). A lot of that is just bare round little log. So slow, tech control is clearly not an issue. I was worried that kind of stuff might be an issue but its def not.

For a do it all kind of Enduroy bike, its awesome. Like really awesome. If you are looking, I'd 110% try to find something with that Manitou Kids Suspension line. Its legit. Some other brands should be using it.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Thank you, great review btw, it covers all my questions, but one: what is the stand over hight? My son is around 51" tall...


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Now I want one for myself!!


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

lokomonkey said:


> Any first hand review from the actual lil riders? I assume that is not their first bike, so how does it compare, to whatever they rode before...? My kid is a small 9y and around 51" tall, I was worried about the stand over and control. It doesn't help that he can't test ride it around Las Vegas NV...


My kid rode a borrowed Rokkusuta 24 for about a month while we waited for the Clash. He likes the Clash way better up and down. He's about the same height as your kid (also a small 9 y.o., maybe an inch taller) and standover is not an issue.

He hated the stock saddle, had to replace it with a SDG Fly Jr.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

thank you!


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

Wish I could get mine to 27lbs. We have spank wheels, dhf front, maxtion rear, stock brakes (which are light I believe), x01 cassette, and oneup dropper at 29.5lbs. Not too bad I guess. The kid loves it though he already scratched the stanchions. We are headed to Whistler so it'll get a good work out.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> Wish I could get mine to 27lbs. We have spank wheels, dhf front, maxtion rear, stock brakes (which are light I believe), x01 cassette, and oneup dropper at 29.5lbs. Not too bad I guess. The kid loves it though he already scratched the stanchions. We are headed to Whistler so it'll get a good work out.


I assume you are running a DH Casing Maxtion in the back. Has that worked well?


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

svinyard said:


> I assume you are running a DH Casing Maxtion in the back. Has that worked well?


Not the DH casing maxtion... when I bought them I wasn't going to use it as a rear.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

lokomonkey said:


> Any first hand review from the actual lil riders? I assume that is not their first bike, so how does it compare, to whatever they rode before...?


My sons buddy has 8-9 days at Trestle Bike Park on the Clash JR and loves it. He complained of hand pain from the super pinner bars/grips (4'6", 70 pound kid) so those came off after 2 weeks. I wonder if those bars really should be for the super little kids on 16" and smaller bikes with really small hands. Almost a solution to a problem than didn't exist on 20" and bigger. Other than that he's completely sending it. He came off a Rokkusuta 20".



lokomonkey said:


> But if you are getting a XC/trail bike for a kid, why not just get a hardtail, commencal has the Meta HT also... just saying


Commencal bikes are not light, and the hardtails are super heavy for XC. Some of the heaviest wheels and tires, super burly. As long as you know this going in, and not planning on your kid being the next Nino Schurter you are fine.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> Not the DH casing maxtion... when I bought them I wasn't going to use it as a rear.


Gotcha, having spent a lot of time on that tire/casing...you are going to have to swap it out for Whistler 110%. The casing is pretty light, which I like for trail riding on dirt etc...but in the park it gets eaten alive from stuff (in our experience). A minion DHF isn't a bad idea if you need one quick or the DH casing might be available at Spawn's shop.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

svinyard said:


> Gotcha, having spent a lot of time on that tire/casing...you are going to have to swap it out for Whistler 110%. The casing is pretty light, which I like for hard trail riding etc...but in the park it gets eaten alive from stuff (in our experience). A minion DHF isn't a bad idea if you need one quick or the DH casing might be available at Spawn's shop.


Yeah, I have an extra DHF I'm bringing. The stock tires are possibilities but man those things are like solid hunks of rubber.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> Yeah, I have an extra DHF I'm bringing. The stock tires are possibilities but man those things are like solid hunks of rubber.


So, whats the deal with the stock tires? I still have them (on the stock wheels) sitting in the garage at the moment (haven't ever used them). Apparently they are 50g heavier per tire than the DHF, tho perhaps a bit less aggressive in tread. 50g doesn't seem that bad but DAMN if they aren't giant looking on those wheels. Think they are any good?? My plan was to save that heavy duty setup for Park days, but I'm not a park expert with kids. Not sure what to think of them.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

svinyard said:


> So, whats the deal with the stock tires? I still have them (on the stock wheels) sitting in the garage at the moment (haven't ever used them). Apparently they are 50g heavier per tire than the DHF, tho perhaps a bit less aggressive in tread. 50g doesn't seem that bad but DAMN if they aren't giant looking on those wheels. Think they are any good?? My plan was to save that heavy duty setup for Park days, but I'm not a park expert with kids. Not sure what to think of them.


My kid only rode them a few times and they seemed fine, just really heavy for a wimpy tread. He likes the steezy rear wheel steering though so maybe they'd be a good fit at the park.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

heet said:


> Not the DH casing maxtion... when I bought them I wasn't going to use it as a rear.


That thing won't last one run at Whistler.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

RMCDan said:


> That thing won't last one run at Whistler.


People keep saying stuff like that but he ran it for 5 days straight at Woodward Tahoe and never had issues. Also some rocky local stuff, at slow speed. He weighs <70lbs, how much can he stress the tire? Do people get punctures on the non DH maxtion?


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

My kid and a couple kids we know had the non-DH 20" Maxtions and flats were a constant issue. YMMV.

They are light though, which prompted one of the Dads in our group to joke that, "It makes it a lot easier to push your bike downhill"


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

heet said:


> People keep saying stuff like that but he ran it for 5 days straight at Woodward Tahoe and never had issues. Also some rocky local stuff, at slow speed. He weighs <70lbs, how much can he stress the tire? Do people get punctures on the non DH maxtion?


We had the non-DH Maxtion (back in our 20" days) and had about 5 flats front/rear in Whistler Bike park over 3 or so days. Started tubeless, then of course added the tube back in. It was frustrating. Ran about 25 PSI for a 45 lbs kid (though during trailside repairs I don't carry a pump w/ gauge). The parts of the mountain that seem to eat the tires most are when we're riding over rocks at high speeds like the stretch along Expressway en route to Blueberry Bathtub/Too Tight, Expressway thru the Franz's tunnel, Blue Velvet as you cross Dave Murray downhill, etc. etc.

Once we got our hands on the DH version of the Maxtions, 8 or so more days in Whistler Bike park with no flats, tubeless. Woot woot!

FWIW the 24" 3C EXO folding DHF's are the exact same weight as the 24" DH Maxtions (750g) on my luggage scale. The DHF offers a tad more width and more and bigger knobs.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

Well ****, guess I'm changing a tire tonight.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

CeUnit said:


> We had the non-DH Maxtion (back in our 20" days) and had about 5 flats front/rear in Whistler Bike park over 3 or so days. Started tubeless, then of course added the tube back in. It was frustrating. Ran about 25 PSI for a 45 lbs kid (though during trailside repairs I don't carry a pump w/ gauge). The parts of the mountain that seem to eat the tires most are when we're riding over rocks at high speeds like the stretch along Expressway en route to Blueberry Bathtub/Too Tight, Expressway thru the Franz's tunnel, Blue Velvet as you cross Dave Murray downhill, etc. etc.
> 
> Once we got our hands on the DH version of the Maxtions, 8 or so more days in Whistler Bike park with no flats, tubeless. Woot woot!
> 
> FWIW the 24" 3C EXO folding DHF's are the exact same weight as the 24" DH Maxtions (750g) on my luggage scale. The DHF offers a tad more width and more and bigger knobs.


We had the same experience last year riding park. It was the rocky areas that really ate it up quick.

Glad the DH works well. Offhand I'm guessing the Maxtion DH might be a better/faster rear tire than the DHF 3c 24" which isn't super fast rolling (on my bike at least). That being said, my kid skid down his rear tires so fast that any slow-knobs turn fast pretty quick. I'm always hollering at him about the money he's leaving on the pavement (my money) when messing around.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> I'm always hollering at him about the money he's leaving on the pavement (my money) when messing around.


Hah, same here. Threatening to confiscate his chore allowance money for a tire fund has mostly resolved the issue for now.


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## CeUnit (Jul 9, 2014)

svinyard said:


> That being said, my kid skid down his rear tires so fast that any slow-knobs turn fast pretty quick. I'm always hollering at him about the money he's leaving on the pavement (my money) when messing around.


Lol time to swap out the Shimano brakes  (for those who don't know, Shimano brakes are much more on/off than others like SRAM - super easy for light riders to lock up)

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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Sounds like folks are happy with the Clash 24 purchase. 

Do you know if they are available frame/rear shock/fork (a la carte) like the adult bikes. 

That would be mental. 

I love that Trailcraft does that, but leaning toward more than 100mm travel.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

No frame-only option for any of Commencal's kids bikes.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

RMCDan said:


> No frame-only option for any of Commencal's kids bikes.


Thank You.

RMCDan are you pretty happy with how things turned out?

Part list/weight for your build?

Sounds like a good bit smaller than a Rokkusuta 24.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

I can tell you it was just amazing for whistler. My kid was bombing crank it up and C-more, clearing most everything. This was his first time out there and had minimal jump experience. Granted he's pretty aggressive and fearless but the bike makes it much easier. The geo and plush suspension are huge. The slack head angle is very forgiving. He was also taking the blue tech trails confidently. And bits of black tech but the drops and rolls on those are intimidating.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Is this an all mountain/enduro style bike? how does it pedal?


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

Compare to the Rocky Mountain Reaper, anybody has any input?


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

The bike is made to be exactly an AllMountain Enduro style bike. It's a mini version of an adult 160mm modern enduro bike. 

From what I see, the thing pedals really well, great in fact (stock weight aside). A big part of that is kids weights are so light that there is little to no pedal bob etc. An underrated feature is the shock. It's incredible but also has 4 presets. Two of those are for pedaling (firm and lockout) but the other two are for full time riding (chunder or flow). So if you are doing a big pedal day or flow/jump lines where the firmer tune would be nicer for going up and down, you just set it and forget it. I dont think it needs it for pedaling (light weight kids) but it's nice for Flow trails and stuff where the kid might want a bit more to push off of.

Downside is that Stock has such heavy wheels and tires. For 550$ shipped, you can fix that tho and get custom stans crest and maxtion tires (if appropriate) and that drops a mountain of weight while still being a versatile setup. You can save the heavy stuff for DH parks days and have two wheel sets. Without doing something like this, I'd worry about the bike as a daily driver. I think even with this it's still super worth it.

RM Reaper kind of isnt great. The geometry is all screwy and the compared to the Clash's Suspension and dialed Geo...its not in the same league at all imo. The geo isnt great as a 26" as the reach is way to short and not great as a 24" either. And its expensive with not so great adult suspension. Tho I'm sure any shredder could rip it and be happy, so whatever.


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## lokomonkey (Jun 18, 2005)

svinyard said:


> The bike is made to be exactly an AllMountain Enduro style bike. It's a mini version of an adult 160mm modern enduro bike.
> 
> From what I see, the thing pedals really well, great in fact (stock weight aside). A big part of that is kids weights are so light that there is little to no pedal bob etc. An underrated feature is the shock. It's incredible but also has 4 presets. Two of those are for pedaling (firm and lockout) but the other two are for full time riding (chunder or flow). So if you are doing a big pedal day or flow/jump lines where the firmer tune would be nicer for going up and down, you just set it and forget it. I dont think it needs it for pedaling (light weight kids) but it's nice for Flow trails and stuff where the kid might want a bit more to push off of.
> 
> ...


But, comparing both geometry (according to each website) are real close and similar, plus the fact that you can 'adjust' the geometry on the RM via "the chip". you said its expensive, it says $1,799 for the RM (@27.8lbs)
vs $1,999 (plus $550 extra wheels and tires = $2549) for the commencal.
The suspension, full Manitou in the Commencal, is a rock show monarch rear shock (130mm) and Suntour (120mm ) fork in the reaper...
I still want to test ride (well my son) both bikes, but to do so is harder with the commencal....
BTW I ride a Commencal myself and love the bike.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah I was looking at the 26" for price which is closer to 2400$. The 24" is 1950$ showing for me with the lesser spec.

The geo for the 24" reaper has a much longer backend with is far from ideal. It's long so it can handle a 26" wheel etc. No way to shorten it. It's not ideal at all in my opinion at 419mm. 380 to 390 works great in person. Trail craft, ripcord, yama jama, Clash etc all have that worked out nicely. For young kids etc it impacts their ability to do certain things on the trail.

Converting to 26 is kind of lame in that the reach etc shrinks on the bike if you bump to a 130mm fork. To many comprises for us. I think it's much better to jump from 24 to 27.5 anyways. 

Even if everything was the same, the suspension is a massive jump from Reaper to Manitou JUnit of you are familair with suspension. Not just the JUnit fork but maybe more importantly the McLeod shock with the Nino tune. Its REALLLY nice imo. The monarch shock (I have one) and suntour fork just sucks from my perspective relative to others. The Manitou JUnit/McLeod is the best kids suspension ever made using Manitous best air spring and damper along with a kids tune. Stuff that comes on 800$+ forks. It's not even close in that regard between the bikes (not to say shredders can shred them of course tho). So the clash nails it in geometry and suspension (critical areas)...but requires some upgrades for it to work well for us. (Reaper would too). 

FWIW I ride a tricked out Rocky bike and its awesome but their adult stuff is shown more love than the kids. A handful of big brands will pickup the JUnit stuff moving forward and I'm guessing Rocky will be one but for now its apples to Oranges.


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Speaking of bigger companies picking it up, CRC now has the Junit forks, wheels, and brakes in stock for a little less than the Hayes site.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> I think it's much better to jump from 24 to 27.5 anyways.


This is how I'm leaning these days, but my kid won't outgrow his 24" until probably 2021 so we'll see how I feel then. He's made 4" jumps in wheelsize every time up to this point (12, 16, 20, 24), so going from 24 to 27.5 doesn't seem unreasonable. One of his buddies just went from 24 to a 27.5 Clash Jr without issue.

Regarding convertible bikes, I know a frame builder who has built some rad kids FS bikes (this guy: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/bike-...tom-dual-suspension-shred-sleds-for-kids.html) and he's not a fan of the concept. Too many inherent compromises at one wheel size or the other.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

My girl's 24" Ripcord already has a 26" fork on it. When she gets borderline to large for it would it make any sense to just slap a 26" front wheel on it up front?
Thanks. 

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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Sounds a bit whack, IMO. It will broadly and significantly impact the geometry (~1" rise in stack, probably close to a -1* change to the HTA, raise the BB, and slacken the STA) without changing the fact that she's simply getting too large for the frame. If you already have a compatible 26" wheel and a tire lying around or can get one really cheap there's not much harm in trying it out, but it doesn't seem worth spending much money on.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

GSJ1973 said:


> My sons buddy has 8-9 days at Trestle Bike Park on the Clash JR and loves it.... He came off a Rokkusuta 20".
> 
> .


My son is 51.5 inches on on a 20 Rokkusuta with a 50mm stem and a 100mm Lev dropper with ~1.5 inches seatpost showing. He loves it still, but looking small.

When are people going to Clash 24 or Maxwell (smaller 24s?) and feeling like it is the right time?. His brothers 24 Rokkusuta is too long and can't quite get feet down with dropper dropped.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

My 7 year old daughter recieved her 24" Ripcord for her 7th birthday at about 48.5" and begin riding it right away but struggled to start and stop. 
Now at 50.5" she is riding it like an absolute champ and I think will hit the sweet spot in height around 54".
Then with a longer stem and sliding the seat back she'll stay on it till around 58".
Genuinely think she'll get 4 years out of this bike which is fantastic. 

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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> Genuinely think she'll get 4 years out of this bike which is fantastic.


Awesome.

Are the Maxwell (100/100) and Ripcord substantially lower standover than the longer travel bikes (Clash)?


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

cakemonster said:


> Awesome.
> 
> Are the Maxwell (100/100) and Ripcord substantially lower standover than the longer travel bikes (Clash)?


That's a good question and one I just don't know the answer to. If you can't find the info online I'll snap a photo with a tape measure on the main bar right in front of the seat for you. 
But I'll tell you she can just straddle the main frame bar, but maybe not at 100% flat-footed.
She flies on that bike at times. She rode with an Intermediate group of children all around 10 years of age (she is 7.5 years of age and only weighs 48#) on trails she had never ridden that they were familiar with and left them in the dust quite easily. I took her thru a rather rough rock garden with a roll in and she handled that and the climb out quite handily. It was a section that is too much for most Novice grown mountain bikers. I don't think she is immensely more talented or anything, I think the bike made a really large difference.
You can have a great time on any bike, but in the case of my kid getting her on a high quality bike it made her incredibly more competent and she went from doing maybe 1 mile on her heavy 20" Cannondale to knocking out 7-8 miles overnight on her 22# Ripcord (it's not stock).
Unless your kid is a park rat doing 5'+ jumps I certainly would not buy a long travel bike for many reasons.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Suns_PSD said:


> That's a good question and one I just don't know the answer to. If you can't find the info online I'll snap a photo with a tape measure on the main bar right in front of the seat for you.
> But I'll tell you she can just straddle the main frame bar, but maybe not at 100% flat-footed.
> She flies on that bike at times. She rode with an Intermediate group of children all around 10 years of age (she is 7.5 years of age and only weighs 48#) on trails she had never ridden that they were familiar with and left them in the dust quite easily. I took her thru a rather rough rock garden with a roll in and she handled that and the climb out quite handily. It was a section that is too much for most Novice grown mountain bikers. I don't think she is immensely more talented or anything, I think the bike made a really large difference.
> You can have a great time on any bike, but in the case of my kid getting her on a high quality bike it made her incredibly more competent and she went from doing maybe 1 mile on her heavy 20" Cannondale to knocking out 7-8 miles overnight on her 22# Ripcord (it's not stock).
> Unless your kid is a park rat doing 5'+ jumps I certainly would not buy a long travel bike for many reasons.


Can you post a part list and pictures? It is interesting to see how everyone builds these up regardless of the platform.

Everyone has different emphasis and use, but I do think a 120mm rear/120-140 front travel bike would be pretty happy medium. Sounds like Trailcraft has that coming next year, but most things with an endure build and grippy tires gonna be 26 lbs plus.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

cakemonster said:


> My son is 51.5 inches on on a 20 Rokkusuta with a 50mm stem and a 100mm Lev dropper with ~1.5 inches seatpost showing. He loves it still, but looking small.
> 
> When are people going to Clash 24 or Maxwell (smaller 24s?) and feeling like it is the right time?. His brothers 24 Rokkusuta is too long and can't quite get feet down with dropper dropped.


My kid is 52" and in the sweet spot for the Clash 24" No issues with standover at all. I wouldn't worry about marginal standover differences at this point. He has a KS Lev Integra dropper post 125mm that is just a touch too long for him but is working fine enough (he isn't doing 3k ft climbs). He could easily been on the bike and happy at 51in (perhaps 50"...but hard to say). I'm firmly of the opinion that its a benefit to ride the smaller bike until they are ready to really rip on the bigger bike (within reason of course). Rollover/speed just isn't a big benefit in the long run unless you are XC racing (which I know very little about). Recent pics for sizing below of my 7yro 52" kid on the bike (chalk white/red highlights Commencal bike kid in black cloths and white helmet).

@Suns: The "Long Travel bike=Park bike" is a bit of a misnomer in practice...tho the idea makes sense because its hard to even find one of these bikes to put your kid on and see it first hand (I was previously in that camp). Our recent experience is if kids are riding Enduro style terrain at near adult speeds and hitting some bigger lines etc. the longer travel bike adds a LOT to their confidence and ability to hit that stuff at speed with more traction/less deflection & hangups/crashes. They will even hit the less steep gnar harder and handle the chunder+loose better too where getting bucked on stiffer suspension at speed can lead to laying the bike down (its still dry up here). Almost every trail we ride has jumps bigger than 5ft and they usually fine on a hardtail due to having a proper landing. The bigger FS/travel has helped with the larger black gap jump lines for SURE tho...simply because of the mental boost alone.

My 7ryo kid does great on the climbs and can almost keep up with the older 9yro kid on that 3500$+ green trail craft Maxwell (the climbs we do are only around 1k ft tho). Bike wise, IMO its the fact that their rotational weights are about the same. The extra lb of frame weight over that TC is marginal at best in climbing performance...yet the Clash is vastly more capable going down despite their suspensions weighing the same. So far we haven't seen any downsides to the long travel Clash/Manitou 24". And I was for sure a bit worried and asked around to other guys with kids on bigger bikes before we bought anything...but that was all for naught.

The Clash is very similar to a Yeti SB130 (wish I had one $$$)...but is way more nimble due to kid-sized wheelbase with smaller wheels, shorter forks etc. Its really cool in that the kids get most of the benefits of these new-school Enduro bikes but...since kids are so small and light, they don't suffer from many of the adult sized downsides (extra bike length, slower maneuvering, more difficult climbing). Its the ultimate aggressive trail/enduro bike that climbs really well (post wheel/tire upgrade).


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

cakemonster said:


> Can you post a part list and pictures? It is interesting to see how everyone builds these up regardless of the platform.
> 
> Do folks have a list of frame plus shock weights for the:
> 
> ...


I'll answer the best I can, however I bought my bike from a member named 'catch22' that documented his Transition Ripcord build well in this very forum some years back, I only made a few small changes.

I think the weight difference of the various frames is essentially nothing to worry about. The Ripcord frame and shock weight is 2537 g (5.6#) which is heavy for a such a small frame but they all seem to be about the same. I will say that when my kid wrecks she just throws that bike down and runs it out! I briefly considered building a WW CF HT off Alibaba but I have doubts that would survive with her doing the 'rock-toss' every other ride.

So the weight difference is really in the parts.

The Trailcraft Maxwell was actually my choice until I found this lightened Ripcord used. I consider them equivalent as far as geo goes, so then it's just about the build.

A stock Ripcord weighs 31#s. Approximating here the weight was saved as such: Sid RL 26" fork (779g), Alibaba CF bars (200g), Wren Stem (150g), remove chain guard (224g), GT crankset with BB (414g), Stans Crest wheels w/ Kozer hubs tubeless Maxton/ Schwalbe tires (1678g), QR axles (100g), some old Krampton mag flat pedals I had (250g), foam grips (50g), Alibaba CF seat (180g), Alibaba CF seatpost (150g), Alibaba WW rotors (200g).

Svinyard, I see your point. My kid isn't very strong and I do like how the Ripcord isn't plush at her weight and essentially acts as a HT until she hits a significant bump. Your kid is hitting a real jump for sure. My kid will be XC riding for the foreseeable future.

On Edit: Here is the order I'd do weight removal if I was budgeting. Lightweight tires and going tubeless is your best bang for the buck, smaller cranks (needed for fit anyways), wheels, forks, then the cheap Alibaba CF parts don't cost much anyways. That rotating weight and proper sized cranks are what you can really feel when riding.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

cakemonster said:


> My son is 51.5 inches on on a 20 Rokkusuta with a 50mm stem and a 100mm Lev dropper with ~1.5 inches seatpost showing. He loves it still, but looking small.


That's pretty much exactly where my kid was at when he went up to the Clash, right down to the amount of exposed seatpost on the Lev. He'd be fine on the Clash for sure.

Clash vs. Ripcord/Maxwell just has to be a personal decision for your kid and trails. I had to prioritize descending capability.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

22lbs is insanely cool/custom build. That is so light...there is definitely some advantage to that. I'm sure that's a game changer for a lot of riding. I can see my kid loving that. Its not like everything we do is 100mph on rough stuff. That Corvette looks fun too


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

2019 Clash 24 appears sold out in USA. Curious how many they brought in. Still some in Canada. Don't know how it works to order from Canada with US delivery.

2020 Clash 24 in December (no changes that I can see).


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

2019 Clash 24 arrived yesterday. 

Looks nice, number 45/ 85 listed on label on frame. Not sure if that is just in USA, or total made.

Frame, shock and fork look well done. Frame could be a little lighter. It appears they scaled down the adult Clash (same linkage, different configuration). Feels burly.


First thoughts...

Positives:
Geometry
Travel
Kid tuned suspension
Great build quality

Negatives:
My sense is the same as the others; that you are paying for a frame and the fork, and the other stuff is a bit heavy. Frame probably overbuilt for kids. 
Narrow grips very cool, but not sure necessary for this age group. Curious what other kids think but my guy used to smaller "adult" grips.
Internal routing of the rear brake. Very nice routing entry access, but still would have preferred external for brakes.
Schrader valve drilling on rims. You can get tubeless stems, but I didn't just have lying around. 
SRAM cranks 155 which is generous for kids coming from 20 inch. 

Big picture. I think it will be sweet with some new stuff on there. The suspension feels really nice.

Hoping to emulate Svinyards build and lighten up to 27 and change with dropper. Will post when done in a couple weeks when wheels arrive.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Would folks on the Clash 24 post what pressures they have found works well and weight of the rider? I will look through the above, but it would be definitely be useful to me to learn from your experience. Thank you in advance.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

My kid is 60lbs. Another Dad is running the settings below for his kid (uber shredder) and they have worked really well for us so far. Only difference is that we are running about 25% rebound dampening (3/4 of the way open) as my son was new to a FS and as he was adjusting to it, the backend was bucking him just a bit on some bigger jumps (he had to learn to preload a bit differently). YMMV.

30 psi in the fork w/ 2 clicks of LSC, and 50 psi in the shock. I think. Set the fork rebound to about 25% closed, shock rebound wide-open.

Note that when fishing internal stuff, there is a pretty big access port hidden under the bolt on down tube protector. Remove it and you'll have a MUCH easier time with parts of the routing.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Thank you. He is riding it and loves it. Not too long in reach, can get feet down, but not flat (at 51.5 inches height). Suspension definitely works at his weight (60-65 lbs) with the settings above. He rode down stairs by our house and commented on how much smoother it felt than his 20. I am sure some of that is rollover, but front and rear were moving well, using the travel like an adult bike. Awesome they tuned the front and rear out of the box.

Stoked on the bike. Everything seems really nicely done.

For folks coming from Rokkusuta 20's, did you move over your dropper (30.9mm) and use an adapter (problem solvers etc) to the 31.6mm seat tube on the Clash? Or just get a new dropper?

Re: Fishing. The door is a good find. For the dropper install I with definitely use that. For the brakes I used a reverb red dual end barb. Attached one end to the cut original line and the other to an extra piece of line. Pulled through. Remove original line. Attach line for new brakes to extra piece with reverb barb. Pull back through. Nothing fancy I know, but I had never had to do this before and it made it very simple.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

I just used the stock brake housing for the takeoff sram guides I put on. I'm going to have to zip tie the housing to the frame at the rear triangle though -- it rubs the spokes.

I'll echo the other things people mention - crap brakes, wheels, cranks are too long. 

Other nits -- the port cover material is fragile, I tore up the ones I had to remove. The NX shifter isn't matchmaker compatible.

But, the bike performs great. My kid did a day at Bachelor and had a blast. We did Redline and he rode most all of it except for the first big rock drop. He didn't clear the jumps or anything but the bike gave him the confidence to ride them.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

heet said:


> I just used the stock brake housing for the takeoff sram guides I put on. I'm going to have to zip tie the housing to the frame at the rear triangle though -- it rubs the spokes.


I am worried about this as well. I was able to loosen the screw port and pull the line tight and it seems OK, but will see what other solutions people have come up with.



heet said:


> the port cover material is fragile, I tore up the ones I had to remove.


Overall the ports have those nice metal/screw in pieces which are nicer than most adult bikes. Just the ports by the headtube that have rubber. I thought they were as nice as most adult bikes, and was able to not tear them up, but that is only because I was super careful after destroying them on my kids Rokkusutas prior!

Also, there is a big 15mm headset top piece(acts as as spacer, not the top cap for the compression nut) below stem. Would love to get those 15mm back (like a zero stack headset). Does anyone know where/how to get a flatter top piece. Would get the bars lower for the smaller kids. ACROS doesn't have a lot listed in USA.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah I'm going to swap to a cheap zero stack headset as well. 

I dont have any issue with brake hose on spokes that I recall but will double check. Hoses can be worked a bit and bend. Or you can pull the caliper and mess with it?

The rubber grommet port covers are nice, but yeah a bit fragile. The non-drive side one was fine but now is a bit tore up. Its better than the non-grommet stuff my buddies sb5 Yeti had that rattled around. So cant complain too much I guess.

The brakes are crap but do work. We swapped them tho...levers are too long. 

Cranks and BB arent bad and will be reused later for sure. I'm happy that they arent throw away. 

What do you guys think of the wheels used for DH Park? We have a second lighter trail set. As a lone set, they are too heavy for every day use...my thought/hope is that they are somewhat appropriate for hard park riding and not throwaways. Tires arent as good as DHF but not bad.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

At full compression the brake cable pulls out quite a bit. I pushed it into the rear triangle but it pulled back out after a ride.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

svinyard said:


> What do you guys think of the wheels used for DH Park? We have a second lighter trail set. As a lone set, they are too heavy for every day use...my thought/hope is that they are somewhat appropriate for hard park riding and not throwaways. Tires arent as good as DHF but not bad.


The adult versions of the Flow Snap tires get good reviews. They are a little heavier(50 more grams than Minion?), but the side knobs are really soft which is probably good for kids. I don't think the wheels are that bad, just relative to dedicated wheels (we all compare to Trailcraft/Crest now) are heavy. The MD30 rims are 490 grams (Crest 295 g), and spokes 32 x 14g (2.0mm). The Formula hubs run smooth and are sealed, and the freehub sounds great. Not sure how much they weigh, but especially with the bracing angle of Boost/24 inches I bet they are hard to break.

So I agree. Decent entry level wheels by adult standards, but that extra pound or two a bigger deal to a kid than an adult. How much kids notice for park will be interesting.

You are not going to get much for them so keeping them probably the way to go. I don't know of many other boost 24 inch bikes out there, so not a big market. I got the Stans Schader stems today and will set them up tubeless and see.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

I couldn't get them to hold air set up tubeless. There is a seam that leaked no matter how much sealant I put in. I had a spank wheelset built tubeless and just change tires for park/trail but honestly I'm going to stick with the minions f/r for convenience.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

heet said:


> I couldn't get them to hold air set up tubeless. There is a seam that leaked no matter how much sealant I put in. I had a spank wheelset built tubeless and just change tires for park/trail but honestly I'm going to stick with the minions f/r for convenience.


Interesting. You are saying the VEE tires don't seal on the Spank rims, or that they don't seal on the stock (Alex MD30) rims? The Spank spoon rims are pinned, not welded, so SPANK doesn't recommend them for tubeless (or that is what they emailed me when I asked a year back). Doesn't mean they don't work tubeless (sounds like they work fine with Minions), but that might be the seam you are talking about. I will try the Vee tires on the MD30 and see if they hold air with the Stans Schrader tubeless valve stems.

That is one thing I loved about the Spawn TR 27 rims with their tires. I set them all up tubeless (probably 6 tires/rims) with a regular floor pump no problem. The matched rim/tire let them size them nicely.

Appreciate learning from everyone elses experience. We have some Crest based wheels coming. A little narrow, but light. Will see if he can break them. Heard a rumor they will make ARCH 24 inch rims next year which would be better for all around. One of his favorite things to do now is to send/Danny Mcaskill about 12 stairs. So the stock wheels are perfect for that if can get them setup.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

It was the stock wheels, they have a seam that runs radially and it just leaked sealant. The spank's do great.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Bummer. Thank you for clarifying. The MD30's are supposedly tubeless ready, but also pinned. Bummer if they don't work tubeless. Interestingly MD30 claimed weight exactly the same as the Spank 24s (490g), but they are clearly different.

https://alexrims.com/products/md30/

https://spank-ind.com/products/spoon-28


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

heet said:


> I just used the stock brake housing for the takeoff sram guides I put on. I'm going to have to zip tie the housing to the frame at the rear triangle though -- it rubs the spokes.


The stock brakes on ours never got used outside the driveway, but I had this problem as well with Dominion brake hose. It wasn't a problem during initial setup, but when it warmed up in the sun the hose warped and started rubbing on the spokes.

Solution was to leave the bike in the sun for a bit. That made the hose more pliable and I was able to pull more through the frame. I also adjusted the hose's exit angle via the banjo bolt, but I don't think the stock brakes use a banjo.

ETA: With the sole exception of a port in the seat tube for a stealth dropper cable, internal routing can die in a fire.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

cakemonster said:


> For folks coming from Rokkusuta 20's, did you move over your dropper (30.9mm) and use an adapter (problem solvers etc) to the 31.6mm seat tube on the Clash? Or just get a new dropper?


I sold the Rokkusuta's dropper with the bike. Got a Manitou Jack dropper for the Clash but was accidentally sent the 30.9 version. Hayes' head mechanic said to go ahead and use a shim and it worked fine. I might hesitate to shim a dropper that an adult is using, but NBD for a kid.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

heet said:


> It was the stock wheels, they have a seam that runs radially and it just leaked sealant. The spank's do great.


Just as followup, I taped up the front tonight. I saw the radial seam you were talking about so I did one layer on the left of the rim, crossed without cutting it, then did a layer on the right of the rim, making sure the tape was high up on the lateral wall on both sides to cover the side area, pulling really tight. The tire inflated tubeless with the Stans schrader valves with a standard floor pump(no reservoir, no compressor), but I could hear a little leak at one side of the radial seam. I put in 2 oz of sealant and the small leak sealed in a couple minutes. A tiny amount of sealant leaked through right at the top of the seam where it meets the tire. I will see if it hold overnight, but it seems like any other tire I have setup. I think the key is covering the entire lateral wall on both sides, especially in the area of the seam. I think if I did a little better taping job it would not have leaked in that area at all. The blue 3M 8896 works great and is way cheaper than Stans (but essentially the same thing).


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

cakemonster said:


> Just as followup, I taped up the front tonight. I saw the radial seam you were talking about so I did one layer on the left of the rim, crossed without cutting it, then did a layer on the right of the rim, making sure the tape was high up on the lateral wall on both sides to cover the side area, pulling really tight. The tire inflated tubeless with the Stans schrader valves with a standard floor pump(no reservoir, no compressor), but I could hear a little leak at one side of the radial seam. I put in 2 oz of sealant and the small leak sealed in a couple minutes. A tiny amount of sealant leaked through right at the top of the seam where it meets the tire. I will see if it hold overnight, but it seems like any other tire I have setup. I think the key is covering the entire lateral wall on both sides, especially in the area of the seam. I think if I did a little better taping job it would not have leaked in that area at all. The blue 3M 8896 works great and is way cheaper than Stans (but essentially the same thing).


Hope it works out... One other tidbit -- the stock NX cassette takes a shimano driver, so the stock wheels are shimano. You can't easily upgrade the cassette without going to an XD hub which means a new wheelset. Building up wheels for kid's bikes is a big dumb expense, wish I didn't have to do it.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Tubeless setup seems OK. Agree radial pinned seam not optimal. Will do the rear tonight. Feeling like these definitely can be setup tubeless with attention to taping that radial seam. There may also be variability in the rims and I just got lucky, but I would try the tape approach above. The rims are not that heavy (same as listed for Spank spoon 28 24 inch rims), and the hubs are sealed Formula.

Regarding freehub(and overall wheels), I agree, I wish they had put a little more into the wheels and chosen a hubset with options for drivers, and the option for a 10t based cassette. $200 more for the bike would save the cost of new wheels.

I actually still run Shimano 11 speed on most of my family's bikes, so I guess I am used to it. X01 and XX1 cassettes are clearly the lightest(and XD). NX is a very heavy cassette(over 530g?), but XT is cheap and saves 100g, XTR 11 speed (320g) can be found for under $200, for 200g less than NX, and gets you closer to X01(280g).

3 years ago the a la carte option in kids was hard because it was so hard to find forks, wheels, and cranks for a frame, but now I think it is a real option. Clash an awesome bike, but I think someone (trailcraft?) will fill this niche soon.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

It's not that big of a deal is it? You can get a Sunrace 11-46 to get the same range. It's a better shifting cassette than the XT version and is like 55$

Anything extra a la cart is going to make trailcraft even more expensive. But yeah I kind of wish the clash just came with a SRAM GX 11sp like the Propain Yuma does. That bike was only about 2050$ and the last gen even had Formula Cura brakes which some pros even raced DH with before the 4's came out! Sadly they have downgraded them now in their "update".

Trailcraft will make you whatever you want today. Itll cost you tho and the geo is XC.

Heet what kind of wheels are you wanting? There's guy that will do custom Stans Crest with XD driver for 430$ shipped at like 1290g. A touch more if you want 32h. The stans + the stock wheels pretty much cover the bases if you are happy enough with stock wheels on park days. 

The Clash is at least somewhat cheaper than a la cart options. You just have to do the upgrades yourself. In the end it's cheaper/better than if you a la carted it via different company (assuming you arent XC racing). I like doing it myself as long as the geo and suspension (king) are dialed.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

I think my point is that I prefer to not get a bunch of stuff I won't use, so it would be awesome to have frame/fork only options, or rolling frame options. But you are right that it comes out in the wash as long as willing to spend some time selling stuff or have something to repurpose it to.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

The rolling frameset seem pretty spendy tho. I think teailcrafts is about 2200$. I kind of look at the Clash as a rolling frameset . But yeah getting the clash rolling frameset for 1500$ would have been a bit nicer i think


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Yeah, this got it pretty close... Wheels, 120 travel in rear...

https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/youth/mountain/fluid-fs-aluminum-youth/

The 140 will be nice in the park, but the Norco did a pretty good job.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

cakemonster said:


> Yeah, this got it pretty close... Wheels, 120 travel in rear...
> 
> https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/youth/mountain/fluid-fs-aluminum-youth/
> 
> The 140 will be nice in the park, but the Norco did a pretty good job.


Yeah its awesome to see the bar being raised like this. That's a nice package for the most part. I'd like to know if the shocks are really tuned for a 60lb kid or are just another custom light rider tune.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

cakemonster said:


> Yeah, this got it pretty close... Wheels, 120 travel in rear...
> 
> https://www.norco.com/bikes/2020/youth/mountain/fluid-fs-aluminum-youth/
> 
> The 140 will be nice in the park, but the Norco did a pretty good job.


Ooooh full specs. Even the 2 build is a lot of bike for the price. I predict that Commencal is going to sell a lot fewer Clash 24s next year because of these. Hell, I'm half-tempted to buy one of these Norcos, swap a few parts and sell the Clash. I almost certainly won't, but I am tempted. Norco has knocked this out of the park. Really curious what the stock weights are.

And the 24" DHR2 lives! Damn it, where were these 3 months ago! Looks like Jenson has them for 25% off MSRP: https://www.jensonusa.com/Maxxis-Mi...MIqfeewsLx5AIVxRx9Ch2VXwv4EAYYASABEgKtZPD_BwE


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah its crazy that these will be in LBS too. It used to be all Riprocks and Coil forks. Now its this...

That 2 build even has a freaking dropper. I can see a lot of Ripcords not being sold as well...I'm guessing Transition might look to update that bike tho. Its overdue. Commencal up'd the price on the Clash too...that plus their silly shipping costs isn't going to play well if you can just buy this. I still like the Clash suspension/geo a bit better but the cost is getting prohibitive to deal with the wheels/brakes.

Dan, what's up with the damper cap on the forks on the Norco's? Mine is a plastic cap with compression clicks. Is this just a different cap and the same thing? or is it different and just a lockout (which would be weird).

Note the lower builds have the TS air (no dual-air spring) and the higher end has the Expert Air (durado highend spring). That isn't trivial. I'm guessing some of these might not have their highend ABS+ damper, hence the lockout cap? Kind of a bummer, but lower end damper prob isn't a big deal (if true). Air-spring is however.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Right now high quality kids bikes are sort of a niche, but the big players are going to get involved right about the time our kids are too old to ride them. 
The father's that care and understand the differences and search for good bikes for kids are driving this.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> Dan, what's up with the damper cap on the forks on the Norco's? Mine is a plastic cap with compression clicks. Is this just a different cap and the same thing? or is it different and just a lockout (which would be weird).


Per the Norco specs it looks like Manitou now makes two versions of the JUNIT forks, the "Expert Air" and "TS Air." My guess is that the TS is open/lockout and the Expert has adjustable LSC, and the LSC adjuster cap on the Expert has been updated to an anodized aluminum version instead of the plastic one on the original version that came on the Clash. Nice touch.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Per the Norco specs it looks like Manitou now makes two versions of the JUNIT forks, the "Expert Air" and "TS Air." My guess is that the TS is open/lockout and the Expert has adjustable LSC, and the LSC adjuster cap on the Expert has been updated to an anodized aluminum version instead of the plastic one on the original version that came on the Clash. Nice touch.


I think the damper is changing for the forks too. The airspring is on the other side. That lockout cap is on the damper side. Prob makes sense and can save some cash.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Suns_PSD said:


> The father's that care and understand the differences and search for good bikes for kids are driving this.


The Hayes JUNIT line happened because one of their major executives had kids that age who were getting into MTB. One day he found himself in their machine shop trying to custom fab some parts to make his son's bike not suck. In the middle of this he thought to himself, "This is ridiculous. We should make this stuff." Took the idea to the CEO who green-lit it and now it's selling like crazy. But, it could easily never have happened.

Supposedly they had huge OEM demand before it even officially launched, way beyond what they initially expected. Expect to see a _lot_ more cool bikes coming next year, including some *big* names. This is based off stuff I was told in March, so things may have changed. But, at the time I was told six companies were redesigning their kid lineups from the ground up around the JUNIT stuff and so far we've only seen two....


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

svinyard said:


> I think the damper is changing for the forks too. The airspring is on the other side. That lockout cap is on the damper side. Prob makes sense and can save some cash.


Yeah, that's what I meant. The version with the cheaper TS Air spring also gets a cheaper open/lockout damper, presumably.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

RMCDan said:


> And the 24" DHR2 lives! Damn it, where were these 3 months ago! Looks like Jenson has them for 25% off MSRP: https://www.jensonusa.com/Maxxis-Mi...MIqfeewsLx5AIVxRx9Ch2VXwv4EAYYASABEgKtZPD_BwE


Ha, when we got the DHF's a few months ago I was having a hard time convincing my wife there was no DHR's in 24, she wasn't thrilled about her child running DHF rear. Looks like only one TR left at Jenson but Universal (qbp) showing more at same price. Hope they do a 2ply DH too. I don't want to run the single plys next season for Whislter.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

airwreck said:


> Ha, when we got the DHF's a few months ago I was having a hard time convincing my wife there was no DHR's in 24, she wasn't thrilled about her child running DHF rear. Looks like only one TR left at Jenson but Universal (qbp) showing more at same price. Hope they do a 2ply DH too. I don't want to run the single plys next season for Whislter.


Lol, your wife sounds pretty cool. Did the existing 24" DHF not hold up in Whistler?


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

RMCDan said:


> The Hayes JUNIT line happened because one of their major executives had kids that age who were getting into MTB. One day he found himself in their machine shop trying to custom fab some parts to make his son's bike not suck. In the middle of this he thought to himself, "This is ridiculous. We should make this stuff." Took the idea to the CEO who green-lit it and now it's selling like crazy. But, it could easily never have happened.
> 
> Supposedly they had huge OEM demand before it even officially launched, way beyond what they initially expected. Expect to see a _lot_ more cool bikes coming next year, including some *big* names. This is based off stuff I was told in March, so things may have changed. But, at the time I was told six companies were redesigning their kid lineups from the ground up around the JUNIT stuff and so far we've only seen two....


It is awesome that there are so many good bikes. Curious what the Norco frame weighs relative to others. My sense on the Clash is they more or less downsized an adult bike (same tubeset, on a bike that was designed as a park bike) resulting in great features, but relatively heavy frame.

I put an XT cassette and XT drivetrain, trailcraft 140 cranks, oneup v2 dropper, XT brakes (still tektro rotors), and some carbon bars/decent stem I had around. With stock wheels/tries tubeless my luggage scale is 29.8 lbs. For comparison 24 Rokkusuta stock (dh tires etc) except XT rotors/brakes and Fox Transfer dropper is 29.8 lb. Fork on Clash is 200g less than the Xfusion on the Spawn. My sense is the Clash frame is pretty heavy, but some of it could be in the wheels.

Crest based wheels arriving late this week. Light, but see if they hold up to abuse, and rims a bit narrow for 2.4 tires. JUNITS look reasonable weight (400 g rims) and bombproof.

For those looking for a low insertion length dropper, the Oneup V2 is cool as you can set it 100-120 for drop. 120 a bit much now for my kid, but 100 is fine, 110 might even be OK. Very easy to activate with the WT light action remote. I used the cable pul actuator (the one they recommend for the Santa cruz bikes) rather than the stock. Doubt it makes a difference. He had a Lev on his 20 Rokkusuta.

Like the others may have gone Norco if both out (mostly for the 120 rear, fox shock, adn wheels), but now curious what else comes Spring. Will someone make a carbon frame, or at least a really dialed/light aluminum frame?


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Followup on tubeless with stock wheels. Set easy, but then slow leaks that are very hard to eliminate. Usually flat over 24 hours and can't seem to get them to fit. Will keep trying but in the end similar experience to others.

Update: 3rd try (take off tape, retape) may have done it. 

But the stock tires don't fit that tight and definitely just a more challenging task than it needs to be. This is one thing the the Spawn tires/rims were so great with. I think the rim/tire sizing in 24 is not quite as standardized(I know all ERTO 507, but seems variable), so if you control the tires and rims it is easier. 

Ordered a DHF and DHR though. 

Still a sweet bike, but they could have put together a package like the Norco where it just came with what you would want (minus the NX drivetrain and 155 cranks).


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Little man rode some DH laps on the stock wheels and tires. Worked great (tires eventually held nicely tubeless).

With Crest wheelset and X01 cassette/Maxtion non-DH front/rear now a touch under 27 lb.

Have a DHF and DHR that will likely go to, but thought I would try the Maxtions for trail as had them around.


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## heet (Oct 25, 2015)

Nice. I was dumb and took the maxtion to the bike park and had a flat on the first blue run. Now I just leave the maxxis on. 2 extra pounds but I think they have better knob profiles even just for trail rides.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

heet said:


> Nice. I was dumb and took the maxtion to the bike park and had a flat on the first blue run. Now I just leave the maxxis on. 2 extra pounds but I think they have better knob profiles even just for trail rides.


I bought the DHF/DHR2 combo to replace the Maxtions. It's only an extra 200g per tire (little less than a pound). The tread and casing are a nice improvement and worth the weight I think.

Good to hear the stock wheels worked at the park! The Crest and stock combo isnt bad.

Do you guys think the Crest wheels would hold up at the park? Ours are nice Lazer spokes on 32h hub for extra strength. Hard to imagine a 65lb kid taco'ing those. We'll prob stick with the stock tho just for the width on those uplift days.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

svinyard said:


> I bought the DHF/DHR2 combo to replace the Maxtions. It's only an extra 200g per tire (little less than a pound). The tread and casing are a nice improvement and worth the weight I think.
> 
> Good to hear the stock wheels worked at the park! The Crest and stock combo isnt bad.
> 
> Do you guys think the Crest wheels would hold up at the park? Ours are nice Lazer spokes on 32h hub for extra strength. Hard to imagine a 65lb kid taco'ing those. We'll prob stick with the stock tho just for the width on those uplift days.


I bet we end up on the Maxxis as well. On the toolbench. Probably should just put them on now.

My sense is that the Crest wheels are plenty strong for a kid, but time will tell. We went 28 hole and will try riding them for everything. Boost plus 24 inch gives some pretty crazy bracing angles(relative to 27.5 or 29), so should be quite strong, at least laterally.

I wish the internal width was 25 or 26, but for 2.3 tires I think they are OK. 
Maybe Stans will do ARCH rims in 24 next year. Tubeless setup so easy.

Sounds like 2020 will bring some cool stuff.


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## cakemonster (Sep 30, 2012)

Other issue my kid had was stock tires would rub seat near full travel for rear suspension with dropper down. WTB high tail fixed this and has plenty of clearance. On sale on Jenson. Had to do the same on my other son's bike.


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## airwreck (Dec 31, 2003)

svinyard said:


> Lol, your wife sounds pretty cool. Did the existing 24" DHF not hold up in Whistler?


Cut between knobs. Wear has been insignificant. Want Maxxgrip too, so it will be DHF rear again next year unless they do DHR2 version.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

airwreck said:


> Cut between knobs. Wear has been insignificant. Want Maxxgrip too, so it will be DHF rear again next year unless they do DHR2 version.


Cool! Fwiw they do a DHR2 24" 2.3 DC tire now. I bought one a month ago, pretty sweet little tire!


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

RMCDan said:


> The stock brakes on ours never got used outside the driveway, but I had this problem as well with Dominion brake hose. It wasn't a problem during initial setup, but when it warmed up in the sun the hose warped and started rubbing on the spokes.
> 
> Solution was to leave the bike in the sun for a bit. That made the hose more pliable and I was able to pull more through the frame. I also adjusted the hose's exit angle via the banjo bolt, but I don't think the stock brakes use a banjo.
> 
> ETA: With the sole exception of a port in the seat tube for a stealth dropper cable, internal routing can die in a fire.


Brake hose eventually worked itself back out and started rubbing on the spokes again. Internal routing can still die in a fire.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Anyone have the BB height of the Clash 24? Anything else you would change about the build that hasn't been posted here on this thread already? Thinking for next season, but might pick up a deal if one presents itself this season for Christmas. Wish a frame only was available.


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Wow, the 2021 Clash 24 looks sick: https://www.commencalusa.com/clash-24-c2x30728298


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

RMCDan said:


> Wow, the 2021 Clash 24 looks sick: https://www.commencalusa.com/clash-24-c2x30728298


Yeah man, they are still moving the needle, which is really impressive for a kids line. It's a much nicer stock bike than what we bought. 
Better:
1- Wheels
2- Brakes
3- Cranks
4- JUnit PRO update
5- Dropper!

Concerns:
1- No more Nino Tuned McLeod...I highly doubt the shock is tuned for a 65lb kid. That's a big loss in my opinion...part of me likes the McLeod's custom tune even more than the JUnit fork at times.
2- Its getting spendy, tho it does have the dropper, correct cranks, JUnit pro. Still the Primus is 1899$ (no dropper, no JUnit Pro and wrong cranks...tho their tires/wheels are a bit nicer). Plus their shipping was a 140$ for us...gut punch.


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