# african american presence m.i.a in mtb (revised



## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I previously posted a thread by this title,and looking back I think I didn't word it correctly to convey its message.I thought the passion forum was meant to let other members know something about ones feelings on issues and also as away to introduce ones self to the mtbr.com community.(I am new) Anyway all I was trying to say was that mountain biking is not a big sport in my community(although I wish it was---because of a kinship I feel toward my people) I also would like to see all people enjoying it because you and I know how beautiful it really is .I think that everyone should tell their friends about it,regardless of what community you come from.And remember--"people don't care what you say-until they know that you care!!   ---from your humble friend, zarr


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## crisillo (Jul 3, 2004)

keep it up, zarr! :thumbsup:

lead by example and hopefully soon more members of your community will join you on mtb rides....

not everyone will be receptive, but for sure some people will be curious and give it a shot.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

zarr said:


> I previously posted a thread by this title,and looking back I think I didn't word it correctly to convey its message.


I don't think it was you - your original thread was in the process of being hijacked by someone with some sort of axe to grind (at least that's how it looked to me).

Anyway, it's an interesting topic, and I hope there can be some good discussion. It seems like, in general, "outdoorsy" sports are predominately Anglo pursuits. In my life, I just don't remember seeing a whole lot of minorities MTBing, or skiing, or backpacking, etc. I'm generalizing, of course - I have camped, MTB'd, etc. with folks of all different backgrounds. But most of my exposure to other outdoor sports enthusiasts has been with white people.

I don't know why - I imagine all sorts of socio-cultural-economic factors apply to those activities being seen as "white" for some reason.


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## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

I think we need a bigger female mtb population, regardless of race. 
:thumbsup:


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Anonymous said:


> I think we need a bigger female mtb population, regardless of race.
> :thumbsup:


Roger that.


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## saturnine (Mar 28, 2007)

does it boil down to a money issue? anyone with money to burn can buy a nice bike, those without cannot.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

saturnine said:


> does it boil down to a money issue? anyone with money to burn can buy a nice bike, those without cannot.


I try to stick with just one expensive hobby. :smilewinkgrin:



Anonymous said:


> I think we need a bigger female mtb population, regardless of race.
> :thumbsup:


I tried to get a female co-worker to start riding with me. She expressed some interest at first, but when I came in one day after crashing the night before... well, that was the immediate end of her interest. :shocked:

Now that I think about it... I have only been trail riding with another female once! ...and she was a roadie, it was her first time out on a trail and she hated it. One of the guys picked a trail far above her comfort level.


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## sportsman (Mar 2, 2004)

Eirene said:


> I have only been trail riding with another female once! ....


I'm so sorry...


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

saturnine said:


> does it boil down to a money issue? anyone with money to burn can buy a nice bike, those without cannot.


Maybe in aggregate, i.e.: minorities as a group tend to have less disposable income than whites. But that doesn't account for minorities who do have money to burn.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

sportsman said:


> I'm so sorry...


Eh, I'm not overly worried about. I do a lot more solo riding than anything else.

In fact, my co-worker and I were discussing female riders... he's been riding a few years and he says he rarely see's females out on the trail. He also said I'm definitely the first one he has met that shows off bruises and scrapes from the last fall. Personally, I think he's lead a sheltered life.


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## aries14 (Nov 23, 2005)

*I love this sport!!*

I'm an African American from Chester PA, a small city just south of Philadelphia. I currently live in DE. We have a crew of 12 MTB riders, 6 are African American, and we hit a lot of the local trails around here, we also have lots of contacts in the biking community. I should add that some of the bikes we own are of the high end variety&#8230;

Zarr, there are plenty of blacks out on the trails; you can always bump into them at the races (MASS). If you're looking to get people to ride who live in your community, it's possible, but don't kill yourself. I'm a firm believer that people are more willing to try something new, that others show passion about. If you love this sport, it'll show and someone will become curios. 
The guys in my group, including me are basketball players 1st, so it was easier for us to fall in love with this (talking about from a community perspective). The workout is special to us and we can make the connection to hoops. MTB is a great sport, but it can be expensive to participate. I allow new riders to take one of my three bikes out to get the feel, and determine for themselves if they like it. 
My nephews are young basketball players like their father and I, we plan on getting them out on the trail to build leg and core strength. The cardiovascular is a given, although basketball and biking require different levels of fitness. 
Word of advice, keep on riding. Don't worry about the color. Find a group of guys you like and get your ride on, and remember that once those lungs start burning, color is the last thing you're thinking about!!!


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## coffeegeek2112 (Mar 2, 2007)

....


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## oldskoolm4 (Jan 13, 2008)

aries14 said:


> Word of advice, keep on riding. Don't worry about the color. Find a group of guys you like and get your ride on, and remember that once those lungs start burning, color is the last thing you're thinking about!!!


I was looking to say something along those lines, but man, you nailed it.

I ride with all different races, never really put the color/nationality thing into play. Generally, the whole Mountain biking crowd is a breed of its own, can't really throw color in there. We all look at different landscapes while driving thinking how cool it would be if there was a trail there, or to jump the ledge, etc. This is also one of the few groups who can name off their favorite beers to someone who doesn't ride, and chances are they have never heard of it, but another mountain biker can tell you all about it. Just some of the things I've gathered over the years :thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*special request concerning this thread-from zarr*

This is a special request from zarr to all who want to post a responce to this thread.Please,please don't respond to any negative responces that may appear on this thread.I am sure that the administators and owners of the website wouldn't want any kinds of confrontation between their subscribers that isn't of a positive nature.If you feel that you just have to confront someone,please private message them,email them,or start up your own separate thread.Just please don't do it here. Your friend,zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*money issues in mountain biking*

A subscriber asked earlier in the post could it be due to lack of money that minorities do not participate more in mountain biking.I'm sure it is a major reason,but let me bring out a couple of points that may be important factors.I started riding back in 1994,when mountain biking was just beginning to become known to the masses of people.Butted steel frames and suspension forks were a real big thing then,and forks were in their early stages of development.Aluminum frames were just catching on,and they were much more expensive than now.One of the great things about the sport is how far the technology has come over the years.A $400 bike today would have cost much ,much more in 1994.My hat goes off to the companies who have made mountain biking affordable to anyone with a real interest.The only real sad thing is that people who live in communities of lower economic conditions have to worry about theft more than anyone else.It's areal sad thing,isn't it? Well,i can't say too much more at this point.Let's just wish for the best for the best for everyone.---zarr


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## JeffSpicoli (Jan 8, 2008)

I am a minority living in the NJ/NY area who is an MTB fiend and seem to run into many people of different ethnic backgrounds around the local trail scene. I'm with Oldskool, regardless of ethnicity; we all share the passion......and interesting conversations of good beer!


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## sportsman (Mar 2, 2004)

that's all right, I'm just sayin'

I don't know where the land of Mitten People is, but I've spent a lot of time on the trails in CO, NM, UT, AZ, and now CA, and I've never noticed a dearth of female riders. and many of them ride so very well, being chicked is frequent risk


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

Land of the Mitten People means Michigan. I grew up not to far from Detroit. I'm currently in Connecticut, well at least for the next 2 weeks. Then I'm moving back home. In fact this is just a break from the fury of packing.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*The proffesional level*

One area that I haven't seen much minority participation is on the professional level.All the major newsstand mtb magazines mainly cover world class events (one exception is Dirt Rag Magazine),and they could be an excellent way to bring mtb into minority communities,since their covers grace the newsstand racks 24/7.In all the 14 years I've been reading them,I can only recall 4 minority professional riders;(1) Shaums March,who rides for Marin Bikes-(go to marinbikes.com or madmarchracing.com for more details).Shaums also has a camp that teaches mountain bike skills.(2) The legendary Tinker Juarez who is with Cannondale.Tinker rode in the first Olympic mountain bike race for the U.S. in 1996.(3) James Bethea,who raced professionally but I'm not sure if he rode in World Class events,and(4) a Brazillian female rider whose name I can't research right now.These major newsstand magazines are part of the reason I am into mountain biking today.I don't know all the politics of sponsoring riders to participate in World Class venues and events,but those magazines could be a powerful tool to bring mountain biking to the masses of people.


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## sean salach (Sep 15, 2007)

seems to me that about 10-12 percent of the riders(all disciplines) that i see are african american, with the vast majority of that 10-12 percent concentrated around urban areas. as i understand it, that's pretty well representative of the african american demographic as a whole in the U.S., right?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Professional representation*

Yes,it's good that there is a fair amount of minority representaton in the venues around the nation.But what about the professional level? How many of those riders that you see have skill levels high enough to represent major & minor bike manufacturers and clothes & component makers at major professional events,and even represent the country in the Olympics? These are the areas that need to be looked at and changed. It will be up to the officials of these venues to bring about these changes.---zarr


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## Dave In Florida (Apr 4, 2007)

I think the answer is perfectly clear. Affirmative action. I think the government should FORCE minorities to take up mountain biking, that way it will be fair.

Down here, there are ALOT of hispanics (Cuban and Puerto Rican mainly) that ride, and all of the ones that I know ride expensive bikes.


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

By coincidence, someone posted this up on my local MTB club's board. I thought it was humorously apropos...


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## bui (Mar 16, 2007)

Asians have it even worse....I'm the only Asian guy I've seen on a mtb around here in a few months, ever since my friend stopped riding


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*The summer OLYMPICS*

Get ready for the summer Olympics IN Beijing.The word is the Chinese women cross country racers from The People's Republic Of China are set to cause quite a stir there.(Mountain Bike Action Magazine-April 2008 issue pg.130) Look out for sister Jingjing Wang to rip shop from here to the ba-lay-hoo in that one.


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## balling (Feb 17, 2008)

just wodnering OP
when was the last time you were in africa?


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## Drewdane (Dec 19, 2003)

Dave In Florida said:


> I think the answer is perfectly clear. Affirmative action. I think the government should FORCE minorities to take up mountain biking, that way it will be fair.





balling said:


> just wodnering OP
> when was the last time you were in africa?


So far, this thread has been pretty free of snotty comments and sh*tty attitudes. Can we keep it that way?


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Drewdane said:


> Maybe in aggregate, i.e.: minorities as a group tend to have less disposable income than whites. But that doesn't account for minorities who do have money to burn.


Some time ago ( I'm trying to remember the exact context, for all I know it was an internet disuccsion somewhere...)

the discussion talked about cultural differences and values regarding the outdoors experience: how in some cultures, the wilderness and great outdoors is something to be feared, and in others it's something to be embraced and explored.


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## balling (Feb 17, 2008)

Drewdane said:


> So far, this thread has been pretty free of snotty comments and sh*tty attitudes. Can we keep it that way?


Not a shitty attitude, just a cultural observance.

me and a few friends were having this discussion the other day.


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## EDDIE JONES (Mar 26, 2005)

balling said:


> Not a shitty attitude, just a cultural observance.
> 
> me and a few friends were having this discussion the other day.


This thread was started in a "spirit" of passion about the sport that we all love and participate in. Do not derail the original intent. I too would love more diversity on mtbr and on the trails near where I live. I think zarr is simply making an observation based on his experiences. I for one appreciate the zeal and passion in his posts. Zarr, as Crisillo said, keep it up and keep the fire burning inside you. You have discovered a sport that will introduce you to a lot of different people. Talk to them in the way that you have posted here and they should listen. My hat's off to you:thumbsup:


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## EDDIE JONES (Mar 26, 2005)

Drewdane said:


> So far, this thread has been pretty free of snotty comments and sh*tty attitudes. Can we keep it that way?


Thanks, Drewdane


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## pimpbot (Dec 31, 2003)

*WHen....*



balling said:


> Not a shitty attitude, just a cultural observance.
> 
> me and a few friends were having this discussion the other day.


Was the last time you were in Cauasus? 

Heck, I'm Mexican American (or at least half) and have only been to Mexico when my parents took me when I was two years old. Heck, I speak more German and French than Spanish. WHat is the point of asking. We are all mutts in this country for the most part. My son is the most blonde haired blue eyed kid with a Hisapnic name you will ever see. I think it's great.


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## balling (Feb 17, 2008)

pimpbot said:


> Was the last time you were in Caucasia?
> 
> Heck, I'm Mexican American (or at least half) and have only been to Mexico when my parents took me when I was two years old. Heck, I speak more German and French than Spanish. WHat is the point of asking. We are all mutts in this country for the most part. I think it's great.


I dont call my self caucasian
im white......well techically a dumb polock, but regardless, ive never been to poland, so i cant call myself a polish american now can i? Im a white boy that speaks japanese and spanish lol. how messed up is that?



EDDIE JONES said:


> This thread was started in a "spirit" of passion about the sport that we all love and participate in. Do not derail the original intent. I too would love more diversity on mtbr and on the trails near where I live. I think zarr is simply making an observation based on his experiences. I for one appreciate the zeal and passion in his posts. Zarr, as Crisillo said, keep it up and keep the fire burning inside you. You have discovered a sport that will introduce you to a lot of different people. Talk to them in the way that you have posted here and they should listen. My hat's off to you:thumbsup:


Rodger dodger

Im all about diversity, our airsoft team has more people from different countries on one team than most people have met. I love being in japan becuase of the cultural diversity!


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## EDDIE JONES (Mar 26, 2005)

balling said:


> I dont call my self caucasian
> im white......well techically a dumb polock, but regardless, ive never been to poland, so i cant call myself a polish american now can i? Im a white boy that speaks japanese and spanish lol. how messed up is that?
> 
> Rodger dodger
> ...


Thank you...the post was started in a positive light. Just want to make sure it stays that way...For the off-topic comments and remarks, drop into f88. They will make you feel right at home:skep:


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## jkoebel (Feb 3, 2008)

Eirene said:


> Now that I think about it... I have only been trail riding with another female once! ...and she was a roadie, it was her first time out on a trail and she hated it. One of the guys picked a trail far above her comfort level.


My girlfriend rides with me, she's on a Specialized Hardrock. She has mixed feelings about it...hardtail doesn't give her enough insulation from the bumps in the trail, and she's a very small-framed girl (about 5'2-110 lbs.) to begin with so she's at a muscularity disadvantage trying to keep up with a bunch of 20something guys.

I don't know any other girls other than her who go riding on a mtb at all.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

jkoebel said:


> My girlfriend rides with me, she's on a Specialized Hardrock. She has mixed feelings about it...hardtail doesn't give her enough insulation from the bumps in the trail, and she's a very small-framed girl (about 5'2-110 lbs.) to begin with so she's at a muscularity disadvantage trying to keep up with a bunch of 20something guys.
> 
> I don't know any other girls other than her who go riding on a mtb at all.


The roadie was like your gf, small-framed about 5-03 maybe 5-04. I'm at far more an advantage for riding with a bunch of guys; with my height being 5-11 and 155lbs. Add to the fact that I'm in the gym 3-4 days a week doing an all around weight routine and I run 3 days a week.

Near the end of the ride with the roadie (I don't want to put her real name in here), she was so stressed out and upset that she wasn't pay attention to the trail anymore...well, the end of that trail was up a quick steep hill then leveled out on the shoulder of the road. and ended about 8 feet from the road. All of a sudden a couple of the guys started yelling for her to pay attention infront. Two of us who had been ahead of her grabbed her handle bars to keep her from riding right into the road and infront of a on-coming truck. The end result was the three of us on the ground with bikes mixed in and one pissed off roadie who swore to never ride a trail again.

...other wise it was an amazing trail out in PA. :thumbsup:


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## puckhead (Aug 9, 2004)

I tend to see more AA's on road bikes than MTB's. I don't think it's a money issue because when I do see AA's on road bikes, they're on pretty damn nice bikes.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*professional representation & national exposure*

Don't forget to read my comments about these matters in this thread---zarr


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## clarkenstein (Mar 8, 2006)

zarr - talking to your point about AA representation at the pro-level, i think the pro level doesn't affect people so much in mtb biking... i dont know many people who see mtbing on TV in my area (NJ) and if they do, its because they are obsessed (like myself) and seek it out. 

so as far as AA representation at the pro-level affecting who gets into the sport, i dont know if that would spur people along as fast as the word-of-mouth/friend-to-friend approach. i think the main way to get more people into the sport is public visibility either from TV coverage (which is an OK way) or seeing friends getting into it (i think this is the best way). most poeple are exposed to the sport, and get into the sport through a friend dragging them along on a few rides until they are hooked. but seeing a good representation of some pro fun-to-watch AA riders couldn't hurt.

where i live (suburbs of NYC - a bit further out tho) my town has a real good mix of people. on my little block of townhomes lots of races/groups/religions are represented - from muslim to christian, black to white, indian, asian, armenian, you name it pretty much... but i am the only biker in the group. a couple of the younger kids just started getting bmx bikes in the neighborhood, and they see me go out - and now when i am loading the bike on the car, they come by and ask me about my bike, or run and grab their bikes to 'show off' a bit (most of the kids in the block at the bike-riding age are indian - also (at least in my area) an under-represented group in the mtb world). 

its real cool to see kids get excited about biking at a young age, and i hope them seeing me go out with my bike spurs them along to ask their parents for a mtn bike. i think they do think my bike is cool - they always ask about it when they see it if they are out playing. so if there is an influence for them to get into riding, i would like to think i am a small part of that. but the visibility/exposure to the mtb biking in life versus on TV i think is key.


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## Triple Threat (Feb 28, 2008)

The percentage of African-Americans who live within twenty minutes of high quality singletrack is unfortunatley not too high I presume. This needs to be factored in. I lived in Oakland, CA for a year and the mtn biking sucked. I found a couple of nice trails throughout the hills of Oakland and Berkeley but thats it. The Black popuation in Tahoe, Santa Cruz, Santa Rosa, Bend, Eugene, Idaho and other mountainous areas is a factor. Same issue with snow sports! It is hard to get exited about fireroads if not impossible!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*media exposure*

I mentioned before (I think?),i'm pretty sure media exposure (TV, radio, movies, books and magazines) is thr best way to get people into mountain biking,because in many communities,there are very few people doing it (thus no one to tell anybody anything).


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## formica (Jul 4, 2004)

Triple Threat said:


> Same issue with snow sports! It is hard to get exited about fireroads if not impossible!


...not...! You obviously have never been to a ski resort that's hosting the Brotherhood of Skiers ( or whatever it's called) Oh man what a party....


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*media add on*

I forgot to mention the newspapers in my last comment.All of these places that people are bringing up that are not located directly in the community are not known by the masses of people.,but it is good to know about them also--zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Why don't you read my thank you post in my senior citizens trail thread in this forum


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Once again,thanks for all the input you guys


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## Deuce918 (Aug 23, 2006)

*Its all good*

I know a few brothers that ride mtb's. Im 45 own 3 mtb's and 1 road its like everything else you do what you like. I luv anything with 2 wheels. Ive lived in 3 states and have found most riders friendly and helpful. Im more surprised at the age of riders both male and female I've observed on the trail some way older than me who ride passionately gives me inspiration to keep riding


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Haven't heard much from folks...*

I wish more of the people who read this thread would reply and let us know about their experiences in mtb,especiallythose from environments where very little of it is done.How did you hear about it? If it wasn't around you,how did you know?All you people from different communities,how did you get started in this sport? You can even start your thread like I did.I think it's interesting.And some others did too, because almost 1400 people read this thread-(Well, maybe that many ,)(some may have read it more than once)....Like me- So com'on now, don't be shy  ----And join the party!!!!!! ---zarr


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

I am an African American male and I love mountain biking. Hell, I like biking period. Up until 2 years ago, I thought I was the only black male out here on the trails in the metro Atlanta area. I have a cousin that I convinced to get into the sport. He purchased a hardtail but its like pulling teeth to get him to ride (his bike is currently at my house because it needed some tuning). One day after giving up on convincing him to come out, I went out to a local trail and rode alone like I usually do. I observed another black male at the trail head at the end of my ride and went over and spoke to him. He told me about a group of African American guys and girls that ride together and some that even race. I was astounded because I had never came across more that one black guy on occassion on some Kmart/Walmart contraption. I met them and it was refreshing to share your experience on the trail with people that look like you and that can understand your passion for the sport. A few of the guys have girlfriends or wives that ride too. Now if you think women on the trail are rare, seeing an African American woman is almost next to none until I got with this group of riders. 

My sister actually seems to be showing an interest in riding but I want to find a decent full suspension rig for her. I think she'll appreciate the experience more and want to continue.

As far as our presence in the sport, there are a few things that I have observed.

1. Biking is not really a sport that is promoted in schools. A lot of schools barely have it set up where a kid could ride his bike to school and secure it so it's regarded as something that's not important or of value. As a matter of fact, most schools and communities would be quicker to point out disadvantages and dangers rather promote positives and spearhead programs to make it safer and more enjoyable.

2. Expense. As many of you know, cycling in any capacity, is not cheap. A lower-end hardtails purchased at a reputable shop will cost around $300+. Add basic equipment (helmet, gloves, eye protection, bottles and cages) and you're at around $375. Then if you don't live near a trail, you need a rack to transport, add $50 for a basic trunk rack and now you're at $425. Then you have to prepare and get to the trail to have an experience, sometimes for a fee of up to $10. After that first experience on the trail, the person may or may not like the sport and now they have to be stuck with all this stuff which they can't even recoupe half of the cost because the average Joe isn't going to buy a used bike over $100 and most experienced riders don't want the lower end stuff. A basketball, football or baseball equipment can be obtained for well under $50 and most neighborhoods have facilities nearby or an area you can use to perform these activities free of charge.

3. Celebrity promotion. Other than Lance Armstrong, the average Joe doesn't know anyone famous in the sport. Other than Major Taylor, I don't know of any famous African Americans on the upper level of the sport and his involvement was a long tme ago. 

Oddly enough, most of these same three points apply to most of the white people I know too. I had a white supervisor at my job asking me about purchasing a bike for fitness. He makes well over $80,000 a year and drives a Hummer but when I recommended a bike that would work for his needs at a price point of around $250 he said that it was too much and that he was planning to buy a bike at Wamart for around $100.

As for my moutain biking experience on a whole, I can't say that I have had a bad experience at all with any race. Sure I've come across the occassional rider with the $5,000 bike with matching spandex gear who think he owns the trail but who hasn't?Riders are riders and I think there is a bond we all share because we belong to a group who are seen as nerdy, spandex-wearing geeks that act like kids on two wheels. I chat with guys at the trailhead, in the parking lot, on the trail and in the shops all the tme and never feel like I am singled out or a minority. Most of the time, I will be riding along and come across a rider or two and we will group together and chat along the way or push each other to climb that last hill or clear that rough section of trail.

Mountain biking is a beautiful thing and a wonderful experience and I wouldn't change it for the world. I am planning to take a more proactive approach this year in getting a few more African Americans out there starting with my sister.

Take care folks and keep riding no matter your color, creed, sex, or religion.


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## knobbyknees (Dec 30, 2004)

Zarr,

Here's a website worth a look at. I've always been amazed by the history of cycling.

http://www.majortaylorassociation.org/who.htm


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Thanks. Sheldon Brown.May he rest in Peace.


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## jalopy jockey (Jun 7, 2007)

Eirene said:


> Land of the Mitten People means Michigan. I grew up not to far from Detroit. I'm currently in Connecticut, well at least for the next 2 weeks. Then I'm moving back home. In fact this is just a break from the fury of packing.


I had guessed that, then again I used to live in thumb of the left hand. My second guess was the yukon teritory or Northern Alaska

When you move back home check out MMBA.org for the local action. And If your gonna be in Macomb or Oakland county I know there a quite a few women who ride in the area. My wife included. Probably still 80%+ men but on our Wendsday night group ride I've seen almost a dozen women at the same ride.

Back to the main topic. Only 1 African American that I recall though. I've been trying to get my neighbor, or his son out there with me but they wont bite.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

*on my way home...*



jalopy jockey said:


> When you move back home check out MMBA.org for the local action. And If your gonna be in Macomb or Oakland county I know there a quite a few women who ride in the area. My wife included. Probably still 80%+ men but on our Wendsday night group ride I've seen almost a dozen women at the same ride.


I'm moving back to Oakland County (where I grew up).  I'll be back Friday of next week. I'll have to hit you up after I get back (or just before I leave) for more details. I'd love to get into group rides; most of my riding has been solo.

As for MMBA.org, already ahead of you. :thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Reply*

This thread sure caught the attention of a lot of people! Well, have a safe trip,and please continue to post on my threads.You are always welcome.---zarr


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*Boy, where do I begin...*

First; great post, zarr:thumbsup: Secondly, it's great to see that the post has been kept civilzed for the most part.

As a long time regular to mtbr, I can say with all the confidence in the world that there are quite a few minorities who rides, but even fewer who are black (or African American to be p.c.) In fact, my friends and I have a long standing thing we do when we're on rides where we try to see how many other black riders we'll encounter. Usually, I'm it!

I agree with an earlier post where cost and availability play a major part to why there aren't more A.A. riders in the mix. One can go to their local sporting good store and buy a basketball or football for $20. Basketball courts are in just about all neigborhood parks, schools, and community centers. Same goes for most football fields. I was told that a long time ago, several school districts in my state did have cycling as a sport and even held road races back in the day. But, like with many other things, liabilities, funding, etc got in the way of that.

I also believe it helps if you've been exposed to outdoor living. I was fortune to grow up in a foreing country where I spent allot of time in the great outdoors as a kid. Camping, biking, hiking, etc; fortunate to have a Norman Rockwell type summers as a child. I know many who never spent time outdoors as children and now as adults could never visualize them selves meeting 50 or 60 mountainbike riders who they've never met and spend a weekend in the woods riding (gatherings).

Unless we can find a way to make cycling affordable to the masses, and expose all to the wonders we all feel on our bikes at an early age, there will continueto be the lack of A.A. on your local trails; all the way up to the pros.

BTW, I was a big Major Taylor fan; that's why I took up racing at the velodrome

<img src=https://images.kodakgallery.com/photos3849/5/22/66/24/19/1/119246622503_0_ALB.jpg>


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## walrasian (Aug 16, 2005)

zarr said:


> How did you hear about it? If it wasn't around you,how did you know?All you people from different communities,how did you get started in this sport? You can even start your thread like I did.I think it's interesting.


I got started the same way a lot of people did. A couple of my friends got into biking because it was the new big fad (late eighties) and they encouraged me to come out and give it a try. Its led to a life long addiction/love affair. So I would say that the best way to get riders into the pro ranks is to start at the bottom and take some kids for a group ride. If age/situation precludes that, get involved with a MTB club/shop. The more friendly faces that are seen, from your community, at the local level the easier it will be for people to get involved. With a sport like MTB (which will always be a fringe sport) locals make a big difference in participation rates and in people sticking with it after they have tried it. I like to think about motocross VS MTB; around where I live a lot of people MTB but no one really does motocross. Drive 20 mins out of the city and Motocross is king. Its kind of "You do what you see".

As an example to my above point, over the years I have gotten 4 people into MTB who are now life long addicts. That coupled with a recent push from the trail builders to get people out on their trails, has seen my local riding areas change from being deserted on a weeknight to having at least one other group out riding every time I went out last year. Keep pushing up from the bottom and eventually you will see a difference as well.

One last thing, get a second bike, it removes the biggest hurdle that people face when deciding to try MTBing. ie "I don't want to buy a bike because I don't know if I will like it". 
Give them the first taste for free and get em hooked.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Mellow Yellow said:


> Unless we can find a way to make cycling affordable to the masses, and expose all to the wonders we all feel on our bikes at an early age, there will continueto be the lack of A.A. on your local trails; all the way up to the pros.
> 
> BTW, I was a big Major Taylor fan; that's why I took up racing at the velodrome


See, I actually disagree with this part. I do believe bicycling is very expensive, but anyone can go to a bike shop and get a solid Trek 820 for a couple hundred bucks, or used for way less. It's tough to say that products need to be catered for an ethnic group, as well as in pricing. In my situation, I'm a minority, though not black. I don't have a lot of money and I built myself up, from less expensive bikes, on up. As I went further into the sport and I knew what I wanted, I saved and worked extra hours for months to get what I wanted. My current bike is worth quite a bit of change and it's because I saved for it and searched out deals to make it happen.

The point is anyone with the drive can do anything they want and to enjoy the outdoors and biking, one doesn't need to shell out an insane amount of cash. If they want to go further, the will of the individual reigns supreme and the great part of America is that the individual can make it happen.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*zarr hear ya...*

You ain't never lied,J.C.---straight like that. Ihave brought people into the sport,and it felt good when Isaw them enjoying themselves,too.Right now I'm just now getting on the 29er band wagon.I'm in the middle of a build.Actually 2 builds,one steel (Zion),and one aluminum (Motobecane).I love them both.It really is fun reading about and putting bikes together.That's one of the reasons I like to bring people into the sport.I research parts, comparison shop,and...build 'em up! Cool Sport. Mountain Biking. Right? Bee lee dat ! .... ---zarr


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

Yep, economic disadvantage isn't a situation only unique to blacks in America. It affects all races, and the only way out is the determination of the self. What someone like yourself can do about it is be the bridge between both sides of the fence. Show those the bikes or the places they can get something they can have a great time on reliably, such as a nice basic ride without the fake shocks and all that nonsense, and bring them out there.

Once they have the love, they will find a way to move up, through harder work, education to get the better jobs, etc. I fully believe there's a strong correlation with constructive personal enrichment that does require a level of investment and personal success of the individual to attain it. Start at the young and persons like yourself can change people in half a generation.

Check with your local school or elsewhere to see if you can put together an informal riding club or group together with regular rides, say on Sat mornings. Urban, suburban, whatever. Show them the sights and how much people pass right over because it's there everyday and they take it for granted.

If it takes off, see if you can get some sponsorship from shops and even local councils to get such things as water bottles, patch kits, tubes, and pumps to the kids.


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## speedmetal (Feb 28, 2007)

A lot of interesting comments. I'm hispanic, and I can say that even though I live in Texas,where about 50% of the population is hispanic, not very many take up mountain biking.Why? I believe it has to do with the mentality of "only kids ride bikes" and "can't you afford a car?" (comments hispanic people actually made at me) The socioeconomic factor can't be ignored. Many inmigrants come from very poor countries, where cycling is viewed as more of a "rich person's" sport. Now, I have met and ridden with people of very diffentent nationalities and backgrounds, with the majority being white, but when I meet a minority rider, he's just like a little kid, very excited to be out riding. As for females taking up the sport, I'm getting my wife to go ride with me, and so far she likes it. BUT you must remember, that its always better to take an easy trail, get a lighter bike for her and even better, full suspension! DONT expect to go full bore with a newbie, much less with a girl! (unless, of course, she's kicking your butt.From personal experience, girls can go just as fast or maybe faster than guys!).Just my two cents.-Danny (Originally from Guatemala City, Guatemala, Central America)


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

speedmetal said:


> I believe it has to do with the mentality of "only kids ride bikes" and "can't you afford a car?"


Absolutely. Here, it's the same thing. People don't care because they don't know what can be done on bikes, nor do they know the personal satisfaction of pushing themselves further and further and while exploring.

As far as biking for transport goes, there is a stigma about it here that if you're riding a bike on the roads, you're poor (a stuffy region of the country), along with the safety issues due to savage drivers that are either ignorant of how to drive near a bicyclist or outright aggressive towards them.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Commuting*

I wrote about african americans in biking, but not all of my heritage is AA.I am also native american.But anyway,just be careful to use bright clothes, reflective gear, and good lights while you're out there.This can have a reverse effect too, though. some crazy motorist can "target you", so be careful.One other thing...Over 1800 people have read this thread.Please don't be shy about responding.Want to hear from you too! ---zarr


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

From a pasty white-guy's perspective...

I think that the economics certainly do play a roll, especially when most would have to load up the car with bikes and drive to the trailhead. There just aren't as many opportunities in cities. Wealth can also afford the TIME to take outings

But how many of us just up and do something COMPLETELY new? I don't venture into the city to try to get into pick-up ball game. I'm new to it and lousy at it and i don't even know anybody. I don't know the etiquette and I'm unsure if I'll be accepted. It would take real guts to throw yourself into something so unfamiliar.


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## benlineberry (Jul 26, 2007)

Yes, but we were all newbies at some point, right?

Carlos Mensia (SP?) has a routine about white people and camping that may also fit the mountain biking thing... maybe minorities simply don't get it. Why would someone go out and get muddy, cut and bruised in the woods (with wild animals) for _fun_?


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

*Don't know what you are all talking about....*

We just put on the Jamaica Fat Tire Festival and had a turnout of about 800 riders/fans. 95% were black.

Last years event can be seen here:

www.smorba.com

THis year we had the likes of Cameron McCaul, Thomas Vanderham, Kyle Ebbett, Kathy Pruitt, Jay Hoots and Robbie Bourdon attend our festival. This is the second year for several of the riders.

I can't wait to see this years pics. They are being put together now.


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## speedmetal (Feb 28, 2007)

Benlineberry,
Please don't get me wrong,but Carlos Mencia is a jerk! Maybe comedians like him are the ones that "don't get it". I love camping, and plenty of other minorities do too. Let me explain it to you:
From a poor person's point of view, who actually is trying to get away from living in a 3rd world country lifestyle, going "camping" is like going back to living in a one-bedroom shack with 6 bothers and sisters while just trying to survive in some weird "food". Now do you understand why some minorities are determined to not going back the same road? It's the same thing with bikes. In an acticle that appeared a couple of years back in Bicycling (yes, I'm ashamed to admit it, I read that mag sometimes) called "the Invisible riders" the author went out to the streets of L.A. and tried to interview latinos that rode the cheap bikes. Many used them for work, or just a means of transportation, as many could not afford a car. Many came from poor countries, and a cheap bike was all they could afford. When asked what they would like to get in the future, they all answered: "a Car!" Fast forward a few years, when these riders were finally able to afford a car. Would they still keep riding? NO. The bike is viewed as a grim reminder of a tough life. Even if it's a very expensive bike. "No way I'm ever riding a bike again!" Its what I have heard from many minorities.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

There's no one answer. 
1. Cycling is enjoyed by only a very small percentage of the population to begin with.
2. There are cultural differences that _generally _(key word there) make "outdoor in nature" activities more feasible to many white americans.
3. Many minorities, their friends and family live in urban areas.
4. Biking is expensive, relatively speaking.

Sure, most Americans can save up and afford the sport, but you take into account points 1, 2, and 3, and you'll understand why many minorities don't even consider venturing into the sport (lifestyle) of cycling. It's really not hard to understand.

Antonio


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

YaMon said:


> We just put on the Jamaica Fat Tire Festival and had a turnout of about 800 riders/fans. 95% were black.


Yeah, but what percentage were African-American?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

Yeah tone,it is kinda expensive,but the quality of bikes (witness the mongoose Tyax Elite @performancebike.com,or some of those bikes @bikesdirect.com,and [email protected]),show that the bike industry I believe is receptive to people with not that much money to spend.If you feel in yor heart that you want to share this sport with someone,then talk about it! ---zarr


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Bro, don't simplify my post. Like I wrote, the issue is multi-faceted (see points 1, 2, and 3), and the price of the sport is only one factor.

Antonio


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Oh, and I own a few bikes, regularly take newbie friends, fam, and coworkers out to ride, and have helped quite a few people buy their first bikes in the 4 years I've been riding.

No fellow minorities yet, tho. But not due to lack of trying.

Ant


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Yeah, it ain't easy telling folks.But they listen anyway.Some don't respond right away.but as long as you try,hey, you can't do no more than that   ---zarr


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

antonio said:


> Yeah, but what percentage were African-American?


I actually took a class a couple years ago and one of my lab partners was from Africa. He was several generations in, came here when he was young, and was naturalized as an America. He's white. African-American now, to be exact. His only family is here and the rest are in Africa.

I think the focus should be made more specific to those in an economic grouping, as they could have more in common to the goal at hand of spreading biking than simply looking for a skin color in a neighborhood.

It's about opening people's minds, starting with being blind towards race.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

That was a good post,J.C. .It rolls right in to my new thread.Check it out.---zarr


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I actually took a class a couple years ago and one of my lab partners was from Africa. He was several generations in, came here when he was young, and was naturalized as an America. He's white. African-American now, to be exact. His only family is here and the rest are in Africa.


I quoted YaMon to show the distinction between having a large black turnout on an island that is mainly black when compared to the African American turnout to a rural sport in a country that is predominantly white. So, why did you quote me? Are you trying to trivialize the meaning behind the distinction "African-American"?



Jerk_Chicken said:


> I think the focus should be made more specific to those in an economic grouping, as they could have more in common to the goal at hand of spreading biking than simply looking for a skin color in a neighborhood.
> 
> It's about opening people's minds, starting with being blind towards race.


I agree with you for the most part, but you can't diminish the importance of skin-color in our world. Brown people are still subject to prejudices and racism in this country that goes beyond economic backgrounds. So while I wish we would could all be color-blind, the reality is we're not. I raise my children to judge people by the content of their character, and to also be ready to stand up for themselves when they're being judged by the way they look.

Ugh, sorry for the soapbox and the slight derailment. I know we're writing about spreading biking, and not about saving the world. I just get irritated when my friends (usually white, but not always) pull out the "it's a socio-economic thing, and we should all be color-blind" argument - I think it's a bit naive. If you would have walked in my shoes for the last 30 plus years, you'd feel the same.

Ant


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

zarr said:


> That was a good post,J.C. .It rolls right in to my new thread.Check it out.---zarr


another thread?!?!


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

antonio said:


> I quoted YaMon to show the distinction between having a large black turnout on an island that is mainly black when compared to the African American turnout to a rural sport in a country that is predominantly white. So, why did you quote me? Are you trying to trivialize the meaning behind the distinction "African-American"?
> 
> I agree with you for the most part, but you can't diminish the importance of skin-color in our world. Brown people are still subject to prejudices and racism in this country that goes beyond economic backgrounds. So while I wish we would could all be color-blind, the reality is we're not. I raise my children to judge people by the content of their character, and to also be ready to stand up for themselves when they're being judged by the way they look.
> 
> ...


I'm not white. I'm brown, and my post about the view of the world without race holds. I don't say I don't feel the impact of racism and don't see its effects. I'm just saying I have better things to do, so please don't think I'm white. There are plenty of my pics on the forums showing my skin color, and even a member who blew himself up here by saying something negative about it.

One of the last things on my list of things to worry about is my own skin color, regardless of the fact that other people are more worried about it than me, especially after 9/11.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

To J.C.--You must remember to be very clear in matters of origin.True your friend may be African-and now American.But his origins are European,making him a European African American.The Afican Americans I am speaking of in this thread are the ones who arrived here on slaveships during the middle passage for the purposes of being slaves in North America.---zarr


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I'm not white. I'm brown, and my post about the view of the world without race holds. I don't say I don't feel the impact of racism and don't see its effects. I'm just saying I have better things to do . . .


Understood.

Ant


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

zarr said:


> To J.C.--You must remember to be very clear in matters of origin.True your friend may be African-and now American.But his origins are European,making him a European African American.The Afican Americans I am speaking of in this thread are the ones who arrived here on slaveships during the middle passage for the purposes of being slaves in North America.---zarr


Now here's another twist-

Many in my classes are from Africa NOW, and have come here to become Americans. African Americans as well.

As far as those who arrived here on slaveships, I don't believe very many of them to be "of this world", for lack of a better way to say they are no longer living.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Now here's another twist-
> 
> Many in my classes are from Africa NOW, and have come here to become Americans. African Americans as well.
> 
> As far as those who arrived here on slaveships, I don't believe very many of them to be "of this world", for lack of a better way to say they are no longer living.


Zarr was referring to the descendants of those Africans who arrived here via the slave trade, and who are still dealing with its legacy. But you knew that.



Ant


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

Sorry for my mistake.What I meant was the ones whose ancestors arrived here in the slaveships.Oh heck man,I'm concerned for my people,do you understand? Look at our history and you'll know why.I love all people,but just let me deal with my own first,ok? Love Ya too man.---zarr


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## Deuce918 (Aug 23, 2006)

*DFL so true*

DFL makes a good point when I (45 yo old blk guy) think back to how I got started it was totally by mistake and I almost gave up when It came down to upgrading my Huffy to a Fisher Marlin . Fortunately for me wifey saw a good oppurtunity to get rid of me for a few hours a week and supported my new obsession. 14 years later I am still riding and the wife still hasn't bashed my head in when I ask her if a new bike is ok (cause I just bought a EX9 she aint seen it yet) :nono: Damm bikes do cost a lot. I have introduced some of my partners (blk, wht, hisp and asian) to the sport some have taken to it, I have 1 (asian) buddy who I now reffer to as a bike junkie now he not only mtb's but has become a serious roadie. One of my wht buddys thinks its crazy and sold his bike after only 3 rides he perfers the road. But not me instead of going to happy hours, and forgoing some other more social activites, I ride, be it alone most of the time I just thinks its alot of fun.

I have become a true recreational rider.

May be its fate


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

zarr said:


> Yeah, it ain't easy telling folks.But they listen anyway.Some don't respond right away.but as long as you try,hey, you can't do no more than that   ---zarr


Just out of curiosity I did a search and came across this article..

http://www.blackathlete.com/Cubefour/cubefour052003.html


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

here's another one:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=r...lsJ7LHnLXquGCIfQQ&sig2=nJ2zoRs0O4L9lAnUV90GGg


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*previous article*

That last article was very interesting,but I jusy want to remind the viewers of this thread that it's intent was to discuss cycling in the greater african american community,meaning african americans whose ancestors arrived in america via slave ships at the time america was being founded-and worked as slaves for this nation. It's intent was not to talk about any other issue.Perhaps someone should start up some new threads to discuss some new & different issues.---zarr


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## Jase810 (Sep 5, 2006)

formica said:


> ...not...! You obviously have never been to a ski resort that's hosting the Brotherhood of Skiers ( or whatever it's called) Oh man what a party....


You are right my friend :thumbsup: And it's the NBS National Brotherhood of Skiers WWW.NBS.ORG. I'm black, and from the ghetto. (dont really like the African American thing) and i'm an avid skier and Mtb'r. My son races and i'm a level II PSIA instructor and a level 100 USSA race coach. Went skiing once with my Godmother when I was in JHS and was hook ever since. My mother couldn't afford for me to ski, so when i finished collage I bought my ski equipment, and been skiing ever since....and I love it!!

As far as mtb'ing is concerned. Some friends that I ski with got me into it in the early 90's and i've been hooked ever since. I ride/rode with a lot of black people and that was in the NYC area, Forest park in Queens NY back in the day...lol. A few of us also did the 24 hours of Allamuchy in, i think 97, 98 or something like that. Was the only team of color, but we had a blast and was welcomed with open arms.

I think it's more of exposure and money in some cases. If people don't know it exists, how do they know it's there? Same as in skiing/snowboarding, also parents. Kids tend to do what they parents did/do.

Just my .02

Jason

Must admit, that i've gotten more looks while skiing than MTBing....


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*Maybe I need to clarify...*



Jerk_Chicken said:


> See, I actually disagree with this part. I do believe bicycling is very expensive, but anyone can go to a bike shop and get a solid Trek 820 for a couple hundred bucks, or used for way less. It's tough to say that products need to be catered for an ethnic group, as well as in pricing. In my situation, I'm a minority, though not black. I don't have a lot of money and I built myself up, from less expensive bikes, on up. As I went further into the sport and I knew what I wanted, I saved and worked extra hours for months to get what I wanted. My current bike is worth quite a bit of change and it's because I saved for it and searched out deals to make it happen.
> 
> The point is anyone with the drive can do anything they want and to enjoy the outdoors and biking, one doesn't need to shell out an insane amount of cash. If they want to go further, the will of the individual reigns supreme and the great part of America is that the individual can make it happen.


I agree with you JC; Like you, I worked a second job almost a year to be able to aford my first real FS XC bike. I think that with effort just about anyone can do what you did. It may take longer for some than others; but it can be done.

My intended point was that mountain bike riding, at the levels that most of us do here, is not something that most people are widely exposed too. If I did not expose my sons to it, I know that they would have known nothing about the sport nor would they probably build any interest in it. If the sport was being exposed to more youngsters through schools or city organized events, like how little league baseball teams are put together. With more exposure comes more minorities who may love the sport as much as we do.


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

zarr said:


> That last article was very interesting,but I jusy want to remind the viewers of this thread that it's intent was to discuss cycling in the greater african american community,meaning african americans whose ancestors arrived in america via slave ships at the time america was being founded-and worked as slaves for this nation. It's intent was not to talk about any other issue.Perhaps someone should start up some new threads to discuss some new & different issues.---zarr


ZARR...Jerk was trying to post some relevant information, as was I. So Jerk's article was not of interest because the fellow resides in Ghana? Okay...

I didn't research the specific heritage of the guy in the link I found from the Black Athlete website...does it really matter?

So, the guy who posted from Jamaica is irrelevant here.

Your demands are odd indeed.

Does this one count? Seems very relevant here...
http://www.adventurecycling.org/news/2007ugrr2release.cfm


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

JC, you don't respond to peoples ideas on exposure, cultural differences, regional differences, and the fact that mountain biking is a small sport in general as reasons why there don't seem to be many African Americans mtb'ing, yet you really focus on working hard, saving money, and having drive as ways for anyone to get into the sport. While you're definitely correct, reading between the lines, I can't help but wonder if you have any prejudices that you need to deal with? I could be completely wrong, but brown people can be prejudiced towards other brown people, right?

So I'm curious - why don't YOU think there are many African Americans riding out on the trails? 

And, please, try not to give an anectdote or a link related to Africa. 

Antonio


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

antonio said:


> JC, you don't respond to peoples ideas on exposure, cultural differences, regional differences, and the fact that mountain biking is a small sport in general as reasons why there don't seem to be many African Americans mtb'ing, yet you really focus on working hard, saving money, and having drive as ways for anyone to get into the sport. While you're definitely correct, reading between the lines, I can't help but wonder if you have any prejudices that you need to deal with? I could be completely wrong, but brown people can be prejudiced towards other brown people, right?
> 
> So I'm curious - why don't YOU think there are many African Americans riding out on the trails?
> 
> ...


So I guess this is where the cannibalism of the participants of this thread begins. Thank you sir, but I won't justify your comment. You already made one foolish assumption of me prior to this.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

I never made any assumption of you prior to this. You assumed I assumed you were white, but I don't know why you thought that.

But, yes, post #89 is an assumption. It is my first, and I bet it is not foolish.

No need to answer - you've written enough.

Ant


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

:yawn: 

Later Antonio.


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

Focus, people; focus!! Lets get back to the topic at hand; not the personal bashing
<img src= https://www.cyburbia.org/gallery/data/500/rodney_king.jpg>


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*once again thanks*

Once again thanks to all who showed the concern to respond to this thread.It has shifted from african americans not being in mountain biking to why other minorities as well are not into MTB.It's all good.The only thing I don't undsrstand is how almost 3000 views were made of this thread, and only about 80 responces were made.Can anybody shed some light on that?(sorry for my typos)


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

Personally, I don't care what color someone is. If you want a riding partner, I'm game! Any excuse to get out on the trails is a good enough one to me. So why should I care that I am riding with a white, black, asian, brown or whatever other color exists out there... I don't. It's the simple pleasure of being able to get wheels in the dirt with another human being.

...and maybe this is where my annoyance kicks in. When someone looks at me and states, "Oh you're just a white girl." Actually if I wanted to get technical like so many others, I’m Russian American. But who the hell really cares!? Next don't just assume that all of us grew up in decent homes or with everything handed to us. Maybe that's another reason so many of us from less fortunate backgrounds have stayed with the sport. Not only the instant gratification of climbing that hill or hitting the last jump just right; but knowing that it is our own hard earned buck that has brought us out here and kept us out on the trail. 

Either way, when someone wants to toss the race card out there, it irritates me. I don’t see race, I don’t see color. Gender? Well, that’s hard to ignore. Especially since I have no intentions of batting for the same team –but that’s a whole other argument. There we go… if we want to sit here and discuss race in mtb’ing, then why are we not discussing sexual preference too!? Or is that too taboo, where as this is socially acceptable to discuss.  

Either way, go put your wheels in the dirt and forget about the color of the person’s skin riding with you. Until people can learn to forget about skin color we will always have a problem with racism; and no matter how hard you fight someone somewhere will be judging you based on your gender and the color of your skin. 

So here's to see you out on the trail. :thumbsup:


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Eirene said:


> Either way, when someone wants to toss the race card out there, it irritates me. I don't see race, I don't see color.


Do you think the "race card" was used in this discussion?



Eirene said:


> Gender? Well, that's hard to ignore.


Is it because you don't see race, but gender relations impact you personally? White privilege?

I think we all agree that we all just need to ride together, ride often, and not think of race in developing relationships with our riding friends, and everyone. And I "think" that we all believe that it is exposure to the sport that limits more people from riding, moreso than race, money, etc. So, if we care, we just need to expose more people to the sport.

Anything else would be a conversation on race relations, and should probably be saved for that Poltics, etc, forum.

Ant


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

antonio said:


> Do you think the race card was used in this discussion?


Well, plenty want to toss it around like it's their personal scarlet letter.



antonio said:


> So why can race be ignored, but not gender?


Buddy, it was a joke. Hence the smiley rolling it's eyes.



antonio said:


> Is it because you don't see race, but gender relations impact you personally?


Does gender impact me personally? Sometimes, but that's to be expected in my line of work. Do I let it affect my work, my professionalism? No. In fact, I find it a stimulating challenge. But again, the way I originally posted the gender comment was a joke. Take it as such.



antonio said:


> White privilege?


 White privileges!? -LMFAO!! That probably does exist, but only if you have the money to buy it.



antonio said:


> I think we all agree that we all just need to ride together, ride often, and not think of race in developing relationships with our riding friends, and everyone else.


Agreed.



antonio said:


> And I "think" that we all believe that it is exposure to the sport that limits more people from riding, moreso than race, money, or anything else. So, if we care, we just need to expose more people to the sport.


Again, I will agree with you.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Cool. My bad for not getting the joke.

By the way, I pulled up this definition from Wikipedia (a great source  )

_*White privilege* is a sociological concept describing advantages enjoyed by white persons beyond what is commonly experienced by the non-white people in those same social spaces (nation, community, workplace, etc.). It differs from racism or prejudice by the fact that a person benefiting from white privilege need not hold racist beliefs themselves.

Definitions of privilege also include the absence of racism as a privilege._

It's a "concept", so take it for what it's worth.

Off to work, so that I can afford this passion. I'll try not to post on this thread anymore, since I may be taking it more seriously than I should (after all, it is the internet).

Good dirt!
Ant


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

I was first offended by this post. Really don't think it matter what color your skin is. 

Recently I experienced (real) racism for the first time. I am a 32 years old white male and my coworkers were of a hispanic decent. This took place for nearly 6 months before the organization let me go for "not fitting in". Now the family is with out any means of support in a new town where we really don't know any one. 

Personally I do not care what color your skin is, or what your background is. Your still a person and deserve to be treated like one. I have ridden with people from various backgrounds and national origin and treat them like any other person. 

Why is it so difficult for some to look past an individuals ethnic background?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

crux said:


> I was first offended by this post. Really don't think it matter what color your skin is.
> 
> Recently I experienced (real) racism for the first time. I am a 32 years old white male and my coworkers were of a hispanic decent. This took place for nearly 6 months before the organization let me go for "not fitting in". Now the family is with out any means of support in a new town where we really don't know any one.
> 
> ...


That's completely ignorant and Antonio will soon call you a racist, as he called me. You're racist and don't even know it, which is the worst part. What's going to happen is he's going to pick apart your words, use them out of context, then inform you of your racism. FWIW, these topics are now becoming useless (I'm racist for saying so) because of an agenda, no answer being good enough for Zarr, and people being discounted (including minorities) for saying they don't care about race. I was even discounted for my past comments in these threads which I spent some time to help zarr find what he was looking for, but no answer is good enough and Antonio comes in to use these threads as a chance to lash back at "******". Mind you, I was even informed I was racist, especially after he discounted a post I made about how color doesn't matter.

Advice: don't bother posting in any of these threads. For the most part, I see mixed groups of people riding. If you want to ride, you will, no matter what color you are. You'll enjoy the riding and the company of friends, regardless of the race, as my riding groups are doing right now.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

antonio said:


> Cool. My bad for not getting the joke.
> 
> By the way, I pulled up this definition from Wikipedia (a great source  )
> 
> ...


Intersting... :skep: But like you've said, it's a concept. Not saying by any means that it doesn't exist...somewhere.



antonio said:


> Off to work, so that I can afford this passion. I'll try not to post on this thread anymore, since I may be taking it more seriously than I should (after all, it is the internet).
> 
> Good dirt!
> Ant


No worries from me. It takes a lot more to get me heated.  My _"customers"_ at work spend a lot more time trying to find that button with zero results.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Actually, Crux, I think what happened to you sucks. I do believe all people are capable of racism, not only white people, and if you believe you were let go because you didn't "fit in", I think it might be best to find a lawyer. It's just hard to prove.

JC, you have issues.

Ant
ugh - reading thir thread is cutting into my weekend time.


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

zarr said:


> .The only thing I don't undsrstand is how almost 3000 views were made of this thread, and only about 80 responces were made.Can anybody shed some light on that?(sorry for my typos)


Probability or odds....

What do you think the reason is?


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Anonymous said:


> I think we need a bigger female mtb population, regardless of race.
> :thumbsup:


Would you prefer that the females weigh in at 200 pounds each or 120 pounds?


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

antonio said:


> Actually, Crux, I think what happened to you sucks. I do believe all people are capable of racism, not only white people, and if you believe you were let go because you didn't "fit in", I think it might be best to find a lawyer. It's just hard to prove.
> 
> JC, you have issues.
> 
> ...


Yup, I dared to say this:

link1

Or saying elsewhere that I don't care about color.

No racial chip on my shoulder. Once again, I have better things to think about than going everywhere as a "brownskin". If people worry about my skin color more than I do, then it's their problem. I don't need to waste mental energy thinking about it.


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> I was even discounted for my past comments in these threads which I spent some time to help zarr find what he was looking for, but no answer is good enough and .


I've posted 2 relevant links myself that should help Zarr on his quest. He does present with strict standards though about what group he's aiming to please. I find it very odd.

His mission is not about biking in my opinion unfortunately. He has some other agenda in mind.


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

ThrashNY said:


> I've posted 2 relevant links myself that should help Zarr on his quest. He does present with strict standards though about what group he's aiming to please. I find it very odd.
> 
> His mission is not about biking in my opinion unfortunately. He has some other agenda in mind.


Yup, be here's one that Zarr thought worked, but antonio didn't:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4172238&postcount=72

Here is photographic encouragement on how to bring more people in, but it wasn't good enough, either. None of the responses were. I sense agenda as well. I won't even get into the narrow scope of the ethnic groups being described and defined either.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4109045&postcount=4


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Your link leads to a really great post. I could try and explain to you why I think your posts thereafter were unnecessarily condescending, sometimes mocking, and often trivialized other people's posts (the quoting of "brownskin" is an example), and why I think you might have prejudices against African Americans. . .

But I doubt you would respond to what I actually write. You'd just try to paint me as an angry, anti-white, simpleton. . . again. It seems like that is how you "win."

I don't think color should matter, I just want people to understand that it does to many people in many ways. For example, I think Eirene is likely color-blind in her relationships in life, and I think that's ideal, but even if Eirene is above it, she shouldn't discount it (in my opinion). Again, IMO, it's just too self-centered to pretend it doesn't exist. Too easy.

I don't lash out at "******", I lash out at what I perceive to be ignorance. I guess that's the chip on my shoulder. You disagree with my opinions - feel free to explain why? Or ignore me. But don't turn me into a caricature.

By the way, JC, why do you think the African American presence in mountain bikinbg is small?

Ant


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Here is photographic encouragement on how to bring more people in, but it wasn't good enough, either. None of the responses were. I sense agenda as well. I won't even get into the narrow scope of the ethnic groups being described and defined either.
> .]


Yup...it can get nasty fast. Not worth it. I've spent a reasonable enough time in F88 to see how bad things can get re: racial issues. Not my gig or interest really.

I was hoping Zarr's original intent was pure, but I seriously question that now given his or her narrow scope of what is an acceptable attempt on others' parts to provide some relevant information or links.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

ThrashNY said:


> Yup...it can get nasty fast. Not worth it. I've spent a reasonable enough time in F88 to see how bad things can get re: racial issues. Not my gig or interest really.
> 
> I was hoping Zarr's original intent was pure, but I seriously question that now given his or her narrow scope of what is an acceptable attempt on others' parts to provide some relevant information or links.


I had the same question regarding the original motive behind this thread, and didn't want to participate. I guess I jumped in when I started reading posts I didn't completely agree with. Probably not a good reason to join, but I stand behind everything I've written and (outside of the back and forth between JC and myself) I hope I added something to the conversation.

By the way, I thought your link was a good one, as was JC's. I just question JC's motive behind posting his.

Ant


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## Jerk_Chicken (Oct 13, 2005)

antonio said:


> I don't lash out at "******", I lash out at what I perceive to be ignorance. I guess that's the chip on my shoulder. You disagree with my opinions - feel free to explain why? Or ignore me. But don't turn me into a caricature.
> 
> By the way, JC, why do you think the African American presence in mountain bikinbg is small?
> 
> Ant


Not around here. I have already presented that the community here is extraordinarily mixed, perhaps based on the degree of mixing of the population. In fact, many pictures of people from this region are posted heavily on these forums on a regular basis. Whites, blacks, and everyone in between are riding together. On the last out of the area ride I went on with my gf, the riding groups were perhaps 30% Hispanic, several Blacks, Asian, South Asian, American and European white.

So to me, no, but since I quantified it, that makes me a racist because it proves I see race, as you might inidicate. You even told me I was racist because I spoke of the "determination of the self" and how anyone in America can succeed and do anything they want.


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## Jase810 (Sep 5, 2006)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Yup, I dared to say this:
> 
> link1
> 
> ...


I agree with that statement, I believe the ones that worry about skin color are the ones with the problem. I cant worry about what they think. If I do, i'm cutting into my fun while im mtb'ing or skiing. Not saying racism doesn't exist, but i'd rather waste my energy on other things and not pay attention to it.


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

antonio said:


> I don't think color should matter, I just want people to understand that it does to many people in many ways. For example, I think Eirene is likely color-blind in her relationships in life, and I think that's ideal, but even if Eirene is above it, she shouldn't discount it (in my opinion). Again, IMO, it's just too self-centered to pretend it doesn't exist. Too easy.


Ant,
Thank you, and yes I am color-blind in my relationships through life. I don't care what color someone is, I care about what kind of person they are. I also agree with you that it is foolish to pretend that racism does not exist; I do not have the luxury of pretending. It just amazes me that people feel it is a justifiable excuse in blaming all of their life problems solely on the color of their skin and how another race has "held them back."  That's BS! If you (I do not mean you specifically, just a general term) want to blame anyone for your problems and short-comings in life, then take a good long hard look in the mirror!

Another thing I have learned over the years is how individuals of the same race will attack each other! Why!? What is the point here! (that is sarcasm for those that don't know ) A good example, take a black cop, place him in the ghetto of Detroit and see the names he is called for arresting a black male. Or a brown cop in the same situation, look at the kind of names are they called!


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## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

zarr said:


> One area that I haven't seen much minority participation is on the professional level.All the major newsstand mtb magazines mainly cover world class events (one exception is Dirt Rag Magazine),and they could be an excellent way to bring mtb into minority communities,since their covers grace the newsstand racks 24/7.In all the 14 years I've been reading them,I can only recall 4 minority professional riders;(1) Shaums March,who rides for Marin Bikes-(go to marinbikes.com or madmarchracing.com for more details).Shaums also has a camp that teaches mountain bike skills.(2) The legendary Tinker Juarez who is with Cannondale.Tinker rode in the first Olympic mountain bike race for the U.S. in 1996.(3) James Bethea,who raced professionally but I'm not sure if he rode in World Class events,and(4) a Brazillian female rider whose name I can't research right now.These major newsstand magazines are part of the reason I am into mountain biking today.I don't know all the politics of sponsoring riders to participate in World Class venues and events,but those magazines could be a powerful tool to bring mountain biking to the masses of people.


Don't forget Rishi and Ranjeet Grewal! They were both world class racers in the 90's! Nuke Proof, James Betheas sponsor, actually went out of it's way to sponsor minorities back in the day. Jamis bikes also sponsored a lot of people of ethnic backgrounds, I remember watching a road race while in Belize and thought it was the coolest thing, seeing guys with dreadlocks sticking out of their helmets and their colourful Team Jamis jerseys...


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Not around here. I have already presented that the community here is extraordinarily mixed, perhaps based on the degree of mixing of the population. In fact, many pictures of people from this region are posted heavily on these forums on a regular basis. Whites, blacks, and everyone in between are riding together. On the last out of the area ride I went on with my gf, the riding groups were perhaps 30% Hispanic, several Blacks, Asian, South Asian, American and European white.
> 
> So to me, no, but since I quantified it, that makes me a racist because it proves I see race, as you might inidicate. You even told me I was racist because I spoke of the "determination of the self" and how anyone in America can succeed and do anything they want.


I never called you racist. I said you might be prejudiced. I admit I could be wrong (I doubt it), but you're so condescending and manipulative in your posts, it's hard to tell. Or respect you, really.

Well, hard to respect your internet persona. I think most of us are better people in person.

Ant


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## D.F.L. (Jan 3, 2004)

So, how should the word be spread?

Should pasty white guys organize trips for brown people or must this mini revolution come from within?

I don't see it taking hold until those would-be riders have easy access to the trails. When these populations move into the suburbs, and eventually the rural areas, they will be far more likely to take part in the local recreation. I think you do what your friends do.

I wonder what the suburban A-A(and all groups) participation in MTB is.


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

Eirene said:


> It just amazes me that people feel it is a justifiable excuse in blaming all of their life problems solely on the color of their skin and how another race has "held them back." That's BS! If you (I do not mean you specifically, just a general term) want to blame anyone for your problems and short-comings in life, then take a good long hard look in the mirror!


I agree. As JC would say, in America all hurdles can be overcome if you work hard enough, especially today. I grew up dirt-poor, but now I'm comfortable (might be middle class soon), so my experience is likely jading what I'm about to write, but I think (GENERALLY SPEAKING HERE) minorities might make too much of racism (personal and institutionalized) and prejudices as hurdles in life, while white americans (again, GENERALLY speaking) might not make enough of them. I could definitely be wrong here, but it's what I think.

Regardless - I think we all have hurdles in life, some worse than others, and this isn't the jim-crow era.



Eirene said:


> Another thing I have learned over the years is how individuals of the same race will attack each other! Why!? What is the point here! (that is sarcasm for those that don't know ) A good example, take a black cop, place him in the ghetto of Detroit and see the names he is called for arresting a black male. Or a brown cop in the same situation, look at the kind of names are they called!


Spending my turbulent teenage years in NYC, I'm well aware. Another example - you should have seen how upset my uncle became when I brought home a black girlfriend. Of course, it's wonderful tnow hat my little brother is seriously dating a white woman.

Unfortunately, regardless of what Zarr's original intentions were, this thread now belongs in F88 (it probably always did). Sorry for helping that happen.

Ant


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## antonio (Jan 18, 2005)

D.F.L. said:


> So, how should the word be spread?
> 
> Should pasty white guys organize trips for brown people or must this mini revolution come from within?
> 
> ...


Funny, in Boston I know quite a few pasty white guys that go into the inner-city and take kids biking regularly. I need to step up and start joining them.

I agree with your thoughts on when it will take hold.

Ant


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

D.F.L. said:


> I wonder what the suburban A-A(and all groups) participation in MTB is.


I did a variety of searches on this out of curiosity and found nothing. A general demographic breakdown of cycling populations is difficult to find.


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## Jase810 (Sep 5, 2006)

Eirene said:


> Ant,
> Thank you, and yes I am color-blind in my relationships through life. I don't care what color someone is, I care about what kind of person they are. I also agree with you that it is foolish to pretend that racism does not exist; I do not have the luxury of pretending. It just amazes me that people feel it is a justifiable excuse in blaming all of their life problems solely on the color of their skin and how another race has "held them back." That's BS! If you (I do not mean you specifically, just a general term) want to blame anyone for your problems and short-comings in life, then take a good long hard look in the mirror!
> 
> Another thing I have learned over the years is how individuals of the same race will attack each other! Why!? What is the point here! (that is sarcasm for those that don't know ) A good example, take a black cop, place him in the ghetto of Detroit and see the names he is called for arresting a black male. Or a brown cop in the same situation, look at the kind of names are they called!


Have to say one thing about this comment Eirene, If my people dont know that MTBing, skiing snowboarding exist how are they to know they can do it? I do agree with the BS abount another race is holding an entire race back. At least now...back 40 - 50 years ago is another story. And if anyone is wondering, as a skiing race coach and ski instructor, i do give back:thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*appologies and love from zarr*

I hope this reply will serve as my deepest one I have ever made.Thanks to you all for coming on this thread and saying all you have said.Now I will try to explain what it's intent was,so you will completely understand what I was trying to do.I was trying to tell the MTB community about a condition I know exists in my community.It pains me so to see my people suffer in any kind of way, not just mountain biking but in all areas.So I feel that the good Lord (God Jehovah ThrashNY  ) has given me a gift to tell all my people (and not just my people) about this wonderful sport,so they can enjoy it the same way as I have been priviliged to do.Idon't think it was an accident that I have learned what I have about it,and I thank God for all He has done for me.And I also thank him for giving me my wondsrful friends here at MTBR.com.  I love each and every one of you guys.(and ladies,Eirene & DrewDane ) Let me add this on,especially meant for all those younger and stronger than me,to serve as an inspiration to you to keep riding.Your buddy zarr is 55years old and I have a very severe case of diabetes type 2.I have neuropathy(nerve damage) and artherosclerosis in both my legs.Ihave a big toe amputation and an ulcer on the bottom of the same foot the size of a 50 cents piece,high blood pressure & diabetic retinopathy in both eyes.My doctors want me to stop working permanently and stay off my foot.My reply is,"sure doc!-right after I go out and ride on the rockiest,rootiest,muddiest trail I can find,until I can't stand up no more!"  :skep: :skep: :eekster:  So ther you have it fellas. I hope now you know zarr a little better now. ...And P.S....-Antonio and J.C.! Stop all that squabbling! Ain't good for you!    Love to youall- for your buddy,zarr  ...Mountain Biking. ... Cool Sport... Ya' dig?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*excuse my typo*

Imeant from your buddy zarr in that last sentence in the above post.I must have got caught up in the moment and forgot a letter--zarr


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## Eirene (Feb 22, 2008)

zarr,
It is good to hear how mtb'ing makes you feel. I'm sure others will agree, that these feelings you are trying to describe, the rest of us share those same emotions. It's what binds us as a community and brings us back day after week after month after year. Keep with it! Keep talking to those around you, keep riding. Like others have said, people will eventually admit their own interest.



Jase810 said:


> Have to say one thing about this comment Eirene, If my people dont know that MTBing, skiing snowboarding exist how are they to know they can do it? I do agree with the BS abount another race is holding an entire race back. At least now...back 40 - 50 years ago is another story. And if anyone is wondering, as a skiing race coach and ski instructor, i do give back:thumbsup:


I completely agree with you! 40-50 years ago, everything was different. To see the vast ground we have covered. Look at those in their 70's and 80's verse early 20's and those about to graduate high school. The difference is astounding! Our society as come a long way, lets just hope that can eventually forget the color barrier.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Love you Eirene


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## ThrashNY (May 18, 2005)

zarr said:


> Let me add this on,especially meant for all those younger and stronger than me,to serve as an inspiration to you to keep riding.Your buddy zarr is 55years old and I have a very severe case of diabetes type 2.I have neuropathy(nerve damage) and artherosclerosis in both my legs.Ihave a big toe amputation and an ulcer on the bottom of the same foot the size of a 50 cents piece,high blood pressure & diabetic retinopathy in both eyes.My doctors want me to stop working permanently and stay off my foot. ?


Make your health a priority Zarr. Hopefully you have the diabetes and blood pressure under control...those are the bad ones as you are well aware.

With guidance from the doc, biking should help you out alot.


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## Camshaft213 (Feb 16, 2008)

i personally, could not give a s*** less about what color someone is or isnt. if they want to ride, they can. who cares?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

me either.


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

This thread is a good idea but I hope that all will stay focused on the issue. 

Zarr, although all the links are not specifically African-American, I still enjoy absorbing the content. 

From a media perspective, on page 34 of the September issue of Mountain Bike Action there was a guy named Victorious Felder from Norwich, Connecticut who sent in his picture riding Moab, Utah. He is African-American (appearancewise).

In the April issue of Mountain Bike Action, on page 131 across from the article about the Chinese women cross-country racers, there is a travel advertisement about Louisiana North promoting mountain biking trails and in one of the photos, they show an African-American man (appearancewise) racing on a hardtail Specialized S-Works.

I say appearancewise because they look like the typical African-American male but they may be of a different origin. Even if they aren't, it could still help to promote the sport in African-American communities in the long run.

Zarr, I think that the sport can be promoted in the African-American community even if the person isn't an African-American (but looks like he/she is). It boils down to an individual being able to relate to someone who looks like he/she does. That is usually the introduction. Then comes the embrace of others involved in the sport and encouraging the newbie.

Good news! A friend of my cousin is at Performance Bike right now purchasing a GT Avalanche 1.0 2008 (he is African- American). The price is $749. He will be using the 10% kickback to get shoes and a CamelBack. The bike comes with clipless pedals so he's jumping all in. We set a date to go riding Saturday. His plunge had to do with previously owning a mountain bike, an experience we had 2 years ago, my cousin telling him about our rides and being around some of his white co-workers that go mountain biking regularly. This is how he go started and how I got reinvigorated to ride again.

About 2 years ago, my cousin and his friend were out having lunch and somehow stumbled into a conversation about bikes. His friend had a mountain bike (a Mongoose something) and I had a 1996 Giant Sedona fully rigid (which was way too big) My cousin didn't have a bike but planned on purchasing one.

We all planned a ride together and rode in late July of 2005. It was my first time back out on the trail in 5 years. I broke my chain a 1/4 mile into the ride and didn't have the proper tools so I had to wait in the car. Since that experience, my cousin and I have been out on a few rides together (I traded the Giant for a Motobecane Fanthom 3.0, then sold it and got a 2007 Cannondale Prophet 5). With each new bike and with each new trail I explored, the hooks got deeper and deeper into me. Now I look forward to every ride or experience on a bike. Hell, I even look forward to my work commute. I like trying to beat my previous time to the job (currently cover a 6.1 mile trip to the job in 18:38 minutes). In 2007, I added a used 2004 Cannondale F600, a 2007 Cannondale Bad Boy, a 2004 Cannondale R2000 and a 1994 Cannondale H200 (donated by a friend, missing a front wheel. I plan on turning it into a single-speed) to my stable. I plan on getting a DJ bike to have a little fun with in the city and have even toyed with the idea of a Downhill/Freeride rig. Like I said, this thing has gotten deep into me!

I say all of this to illustrate this point. Getting African-Americans (or anyone for that matter) into the sport takes getting their feet wet and then gradually submersing them into it fully. It takes time to explain the price differences in bikes, the type of bikes and their uses. The benefits/drawbacks of a hardtail or full-suspension rig. Take them to a trail and explain how to get over or around obsatcles, show them how to dress properly and to wear safety gear. Give them a bike magazine. Take them to a local race. Have them volunteer with you on a trail work party so they can see what goes on behind the scenes. Take them to a shop and explain what to look for in a good bike shop, how to get the best deals, etc. Show then how to perform minor maintenance to their bikes. 

I think when you are exposed to the many facets of the biking culture and not just on how many of one race you see on a bike, you will get the person more interested in the sport. In the case of me, extremely. In the case of my cousin's friend, moderate but enthusiastically.

Keep writing but more importantly, keep riding!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

That reply was one of the nicest things anybody has said to me since I learned about this forum. Actually with what you just said I could just shut this whole thread down.It's finished!  that's all I was trying to do was be friendly to people when i wrote all of my threads,but some mountain bike bully snobs had to get on here and show the world how tuff they are. that just shows how selfish some people are.We all learned about this sport from somewhere,but some forget and only care about themselves.It's just like the rest of life.You give some,and you take some.Thanks again.---zarr


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

I was talking to a friend earlier and she lives in Philly. I took the opportunity to ask her a few questions about biking so I could get her perspective. Here are the questions I asked and her responses.

Some background on her; She is 30 years old, African-American, single, no kids. She lives in Pennsylvania and works for a bank. Petite (about 5'4", 105 lbs), slender build.

1.Do you have any friends that own a bike or that ride regularly who are African-American?

Yes.

2. Are they girls or guys?

Guys.

3. Would you buy a bike now and if you did, what would be the most you would spend?

I would and I would spend no more than $200.

4. What is your view of cycling? Is it something that you see as useful and fun or could you care less about it?

I feel like it's useful and potentially important from a health perspective.

5. Would you feel more inclined to go riding if you went with a group? Would be more interested if African-Americans or women were in the group?

Yes. Women.

6. Where would you go shopping for a bike?

I have no idea where to get one other than Toys-R-Us or a cycling shop.

7. Do you know how to ride a bike?

Yes.

8. Do you own a bike now?

No.

9. When was the last time you were on a bike?

Years ago.

10. Have you ever gone mountain biking?

No.

The two most valuable and valid points here are the purchase price of a bike and wanting the comfort or comraderie of a group you can identify with. Like I said in some of my previous posts, the price point that most non-biking people are willing to spend is about $200 or less and that is not just African-American based. It has a lot more to do with where they are getting their pricing idea from and in most cases, they go by the prices they see in Kmart. Walmart, Toys-R-Us or Target. What also drives this misconception of price is brand placement. Most non-bikers have seen Mongoose and Schwinn bikes sold in Toys-R-Us. Those of us that ride know about the higher quality bikes that both of these companies sell. It is extremely difficult to explain the benefits and difference in the two to a 'casual biker'. All they see is a bike that looks similar made by the same company. 

Another side to this coin and to further illustrate brand placement is the Mongoose Bossberg road bike. Most roadies I have spoken too wouldn't touch this bike with a ten foot pole or use it in a race. It's is spec'ed pretty good and has gotten some decent reviews but Mongoose is just not a brand that roadies associate with. Most of us know Mongoose in a BMX capacity which is why mountain bikers can associate this brand into their style of riding. 

As far as getting your feet wet, I did that all on my own. I didn't have a buddy to explain about different bikes, the benefits of each or that loaned me a bike and took me out to the trails. I just had an interest in this mountain bike thing because it kinda resembled the rugged and alternative culture of BMX. It was kinda like "grown-up BMXing". I found my first trail on my own, learned how to ride it (all on a fully ridgid that was way too big). I got a few magazines and books. Learned about clipless pedals and purchased my first set from Nashbar without ever trying them out on a demo bike. Learned how to ride with them, mostly through trial and error. Sure, I made a few mistakes here and there and I probably could have made better purchases or saved money better equipped with the proper knowledge. But all that I have learned was invaluable and it had made me a better rider and more understanding of bike culture.

What got me into biking at all was my father. He rode bikes and so did my grandfather (may he rest in peace). He saw value in a bike and got me a few in my early childhood years. This developed into wanting to hang out with my friends on their bikes and it also signified freedom and independence for me. I could go anywhere my bike could take me and could make my way there anyway I saw fit. I also saw certain developments and changes in bikes and the culture and was interested enough to read up, seek out and follow along to stay in-the-know.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

I didn't have help in the beginning either.I have to be careful because every time i put GOD in the equation, some reader gets up in arms & thinks I'm a troublemaker.I'm OK with them until I bring HIM up.The term for those kind of people is your "frenemies'.  Well,any way,with his help first and foremost,and the help of a few nice people&theMTB magazines,along with getting thrown out of a bike shop for knowing more than the highest profit for him making bike he could sell me,I was on my way,& I'm still learning. I don't have the patience to teach about MTB any more,so I'm goig to prepare a booklet to give to people who are interested.I guess every little bit helps.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

antonio said:


> Actually, Crux, I think what happened to you sucks. I do believe all people are capable of racism, not only white people, and if you believe you were let go because you didn't "fit in", I think it might be best to find a lawyer. It's just hard to prove.
> 
> JC, you have issues.
> 
> ...


Actually have 20+ pages of documented incidents from my prior employer and the EEOC was contacted prior to my dismissal. The employer really does not have a leg to stand on. Question is do I want to be dragged down to their level potentially hurting my career in the long run?

Agreed JC has issues.

People are people treat them as such. If I am a racist how could I have been in a loving relationship with my wife for the past 8 years?

The real question is how did this thread end up in passion of all places.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

because i wanted to introduce myself and tell people how I felt about MTB.Did I put that in the wrong forum? If I did,i didn't know any better.(I am new).


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*message from zarr*

this message is to all my friends who read&commented on this thread.I want to thank all who understood my good intentions.I also want to rebuke all who tried to discredit me & destroy my reputation,and you know who you are.Peace and love to you all,and never stop being passionate about our sport.That's what keeps us going.You guys may want to continue to talk about this subject here,but as for me, it's already run its course.I will not be answering any more questions or making any more comments here.Love you all.---zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

OK,I see you guys are continuing to read this thread.If any one wants meto put further (sigh) input into it, I will....Love you guys,zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*message*

I intend to respond to all who post replies on this thread that have positive content.I am not going to allow forces which intend to hold me back from doing good here hinder me.Thank You to all who have contributed good input here.---zarr


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

*This thread needs pictures!*

I have a few ideas about "brothers" and cycling.

1. While it's true you don't see too many, there are lots of black men and women that ride but far more roadies than mountain bikers. There are "Major Tayor" inspired bike clubs all across the nation. My first bicycle club was "Major Motion" in the late 1970's in South Los Angeles (all black, all seriously fast riders. Masi's Bianchi's and leather helmets!)

2. Like Hockey, cycling is seen by many young blacks as a "white boy sport". There are so few role models that it's hard to relate to for some people. I don't mean just riding a bike, I mean being involved in competitive bicycle events. Basketball and football trump cycling by a million billion miles.

3. I agree with the other posters who stated that it's not about color, it's about the ride. :thumbsup: I love my mountain bike! I love my road bike! I love the guys I ride with!
My wife loves em too.... I'm always high on life when I come home from a ride. You guys (and girls) know the euphoria!


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

Nice bike BunnV. I like the orange.


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## ArmedMonk (Oct 20, 2007)

*Apparently...*

As of the time of this writing.... you can beat a dead dog 4,489 times............Oops! My bad.... 4,513.........


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

Dogdude222 said:


> Nice bike BunnV. I like the orange.


Thanks Dogdude222! It's definitely a love-it-or-hate-it color. I love it!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Good pics & comments!*

Thanks BunnV for the pic & thanks guys for the good comments.All you people with the negative commentary,please move on & leave this thread alone.You are not wanted here.And don't expect me to become enraged & pick up the same tool you're using to express myself.I'm not going to lower myself to hatred & classless nonsense.I am very proud of the progress & strives of my people in this sport.To all interested people,check out billcotton.com for some good inspiration.---zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*To all readers of this thread*

How many of you have gone out of your way to help somebody in need? How many of you have the passion to try to bring some joy into the life of someone by telling them about mountain biking? well before you critisize me,why don't you go out and do that ? How many people have helped you along the way?...Maybe many.I hope I am one of them.I try to help all people.How about you?


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

I have a long drawn-out story about a program I started over a decade ago to bring inner city African Americans out to the trails on mtbs. But I'm not going to bother you with all the gory details. Little of it's relevant today anyway.

Ok, forget for a minute, that this man is running for president. I don't care who you vote for, I'm not even voting, myself. Can't make it this time.

Aside from the presidential politics, this is probably the best speech I've heard on the topic of race in decades. He actually writes his own speeches, so it's sincere.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hisownwords

It's long, but well worth the listen. Again, I don't care who you vote for, or what you think about who would make a great president. This is just the first time I've heard anyone speak this openly about race, and considering the relevance to a lot of what's been posted in this thread, I can't see how it'd hurt.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Response to previous post*

Thanks Hot Black for that post,and I agree-it's contents do have relevency on this thread.I never said anywhere on any of my threads that I only wanted to help or ride with only african- american people-I merely said i wanted to see more africans riding mountain bikes.Do you see how people can misunderstand and judge someone according to their own understanding? Even after I explained what i was trying to do more than once,some still did not understand.I tell people about mountain biking and try to help them no matter what color they are.I specified african-americans in this thread because I am african-american and I wanted to tell my fellow forum members about a condition that exists among my people.I'm sure it exists in other communities as well.(I'm saying this for the umteenth time- ) So people---please stop condemning me--go out and try to spread the word about biking to someone--it might make you feel good to help someone---OK???  ---zarr


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## HTR4EVR (Jun 15, 2007)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> The point is anyone with the drive can do anything they want and to enjoy the outdoors and biking, one doesn't need to shell out an insane amount of cash. If they want to go further, the will of the individual reigns supreme and the great part of America is that the individual can make it happen.


100% with you. I'm a minority too, and it has been the same with me. It's all about the drive...

And Zarr, this is one of the best threads in this forums...


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

In the words of the late,great Andy Kaufman,.."Think You Veddy Much!!!!!!"  ---zarr


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

zarr said:


> Thanks Hot Black for that post,and I agree-it's contents do have relevency on this thread.I never said anywhere on any of my threads that I only wanted to help or ride with only african...


Oh yeah zarr; no, I hear ya. By "you" I meant whosever eyes happened to be reading me post. I just thought people interested would get something from that speech, but didn't want this spinning off into a presidential politics thread. Good words, good ideas.

Also regarding condemnation, I'll agree. It isn't constructive. Yes, I'm condemning condemnation. Oh dear. !

Eh what the heck. Here goes. My little program was simple. I got the founder of our company to convince the right people to let us bring inner-city kids to the countryside for afternoon mountain bike rides. The company supplied everything, and five of us volunteered our time. A couple times a week, we'd head on into the city two hours away, pick up people, head back out, hit the trailhead, and spend the afternoon out in the woods discovering a very different world from the only one they'd known previously. Afterward we'd pick up ice cream at a local farmers store, and tell the usual tales of the days crashes, climbs, descents, the fast swoopy singletrack, & talk all about the plants, the rocks, birds, fresh air, deer, lakes, and all those trees. The groups just got bigger and bigger until our funding was cut off by the board, and four out of five of us were downsized out. Can't win em all. I still remember, for me, the car rides were the best part. You could see the gears turning in quiet kids, & you could hear it in the voices of the not so quiet. For many, it was their first time physically experiencing life outside the core. They'd heard about it in TV & movies, but now it was actually real to them, and they wanted it.

You know the phrase. Give a guy a fish... Show a guy how to fish...


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*reply*

I wish I could have been there to help you.Too many people forget that when they receive help from others,the person who helped them made a sacrifice to do so .Now that being said,one must remember that sometimes ya might not see anything coming back.That's the tough part.I have more than once helped someone only to have that person betray everything I tried to do.But also,sometimes ,the end turns out as it should be.That's the nice part.Yep it follows with...well,I won't get too religious here because people have their own views about that.But it's always nice to give! Just don't overextend yourself so you won't get hurt doing it.---zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*To all readers*

I thought about listing all the people who replied here and took the meaning of this thread incorrectly for all to see,but I guess I'm just too much of a gentleman to do it.Love your friends,be kind to those who may not understand you,and...and...I love you too.---zarr


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## bigkeith (Sep 7, 2004)

*Your right this thread needs pics*

here i am on one of my 4 mountain bikes at valley green in Wissahickon Park


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

You ain't never lied... Your pic is off the heezee!! Straight up!


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## streetpro0323 (Sep 16, 2005)

*Brandywine in Delaware:*

Big Keith,
We saw you at the Wiss during the Rally at the Valley. We ride everywhere and plan on doing lots of PA riding this year...see ya on the trails.:..there are like 8 of us. thumbsup:


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

Homosapiens (can't put the space in there) originated in Africa. All of us who are American are therefore African-American  

And yes, it would be nice if all cultures and communities embraced cycling. The easiest way is to just let them see how much fun we're all having.

Edit: Great, we can't even use the term for the human animal without activating the foul language filter. To the moderators- the term for a hominid that contains the letters 'h', 'm', and 'o' twice is not primarily a derogatory term for someone who is gay, it is an adapted term with a legitimate use that shouldn't be filtered.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Hi & welcome!*

Once again thanks to all who have joined in on this thread.And thanks also to those who misunderstood the purpose of this thread.And welcome to all people of all backgrounds to this thread.Don't let anyone be left out of our sport.That's what my intent is also.---zarr


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## aries14 (Nov 23, 2005)

*Wiss and Fair Hill*

Couple of shots taken from 2007! Cant wait till the weather breaks!!


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*Holly Crap!!!*



aries14 said:


> Couple of shots taken from 2007! Cant wait till the weather breaks!!


That's the most black... err... African American riders I've ever seen in one place at one time!! where was this?


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## aries14 (Nov 23, 2005)

*North East*



Mellow Yellow said:


> where was this?


Mellow,

the solo flick is in MD, the group shot is in Philly.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

To aries14-check your PM-zarr


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*oh yeah!*



Anonymous said:


> I think we need a bigger female mtb population, regardless of race.
> :thumbsup:


On the topic, if you're a lady (19-25) and you ride pm asap I'm in St.George, Utah, 23, going to college, and currently single. :ihih: :ihih: :ihih: :ihih:

On a more serious note (don't worry though ladies I'm comitted to the above statement, there you go........comitment. See, I got what it takes) I think it'd be cool to have a more diverse group of people riding. I remember seeing a comic about this sorta thing......it read "If Michael Jordan mountain biked," and had a charicature of MJ throwing down a 7' bunny hop. It was pretty fun. Check out guys like Shaums March, That dude has some serious skills, and from those who've met him tell me he's potentially the most down to earth and pleasant guy around.


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

wasea04 said:


> On the topic, if you're a lady (19-25) and you ride pm asap I'm in St.George, Utah, 23, going to college, and currently single. :ihih: :ihih: :ihih: :ihih:


Man, that didn't take much hey?

Anyway, dream on. Anonymous is all mine.

"Lower those eyebrows, Millhouse. ...aaaand the other one."
- Principal Skinner


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## wasea04 (Apr 2, 2007)

*Same mistake.*



Eirene said:


> I try to stick with just one expensive hobby. :smilewinkgrin:
> 
> I tried to get a female co-worker to start riding with me. She expressed some interest at first, but when I came in one day after crashing the night before... well, that was the immediate end of her interest. :shocked:
> 
> Now that I think about it... I have only been trail riding with another female once! ...and she was a roadie, it was her first time out on a trail and she hated it. One of the guys picked a trail far above her comfort level.


I took some of my female friends riding on a tame trail called the GV loop here in St.George and they said mtb'ing was easy, etc. They had a great time. Next time with mostly the same female friends we went to Churchrocks which is a moderate trail as well with similar results, although one girl took a spill where when the trail got rough she dived, literally dived off her bike onto the slickrock. I think she got overwhelmed. Ouch. Along for both of these rides were some of my non mtb male friends too. Of course with them and the chicks both talking about mtb'ing and how I made it sound so hard but it really wasn't and so on, I couldn't help myself but take them on a black diamond trail.:devil: I know, I know, a bad idea. My ego just could not take it anymore and so I took them down the barrels and mustache trails. They were to busy suffering to be impressed. l look back on it and chuckle as none of them, including the fellas, ever want to go again. :bluefrown:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*welcome*

Thanks for posting on this thread.Please post here and post again.  ---zarr


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*MTBR Singles...*



wasea04 said:


> On the topic, if you're a lady (19-25) and you ride pm asap I'm in St.George, Utah, 23, going to college, and currently single. :ihih: :ihih: :ihih: :ihih:
> 
> On a more serious note (don't worry though ladies I'm comitted to the above statement, there you go........comitment. See, I got what it takes) I think it'd be cool to have a more diverse group of people riding. I remember seeing a comic about this sorta thing......it read "If Michael Jordan mountain biked," and had a charicature of MJ throwing down a 7' bunny hop. It was pretty fun. Check out guys like Shaums March, That dude has some serious skills, and from those who've met him tell me he's potentially the most down to earth and pleasant guy around.


It's funny, but some a while back suggested that MTBR start a singles forum or web site; like Match.com or EHarmony. The idea was killed because of the overwhelming differences between guys and girls on this site. You can immagine that for every girl on here there would be 100 wierd axe murderers bidding for her attention. It just wouldn't work.

But hey, there is no harm in trying!:thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Thread Referral-!*

To all!-Read the thread,"I has me a job at a bike shop now",in the Urban/DJ/Park forum. ...What a beautiful story.


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## hozzerr1 (Feb 26, 2005)

*Not black, Not white, but brown*

with so much to say I would narrow it down to this: it's a matter of choice, personal choice that is. 
I have spent alot of time outdoors and never really paid attention to the color of people, cuz when you are out there you meet people like you, until a friend said to me,"Jose, don't you feel unconfortable being in the neck of the woods with a bunch of red-necks?"
I said, "you know, my neck gets red too from the sun, I hear its better to wear something to cover it. I never noticed people had red-necks".
Anyways, I grew up in a barrio infested with gangs and drugs and crime and drive-byes and racial tensions everywhere and life expectancy was 16-18yrs old. That gets old and tire and I wanted to go beyond my city block to explore the hills that you could see far out in the distance. It's about choice.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*Welcome*

Welcome to this thread,hozzer1.I am honored to have you here.You are right 100%.This thread was written to try to bring people into our sport and encourage people to bring others into the sport.It is not easy sometimes, but it's sure nice when things work out.Just ride with a group of friends,try to encourage others to ride,and have a good time.I am hoping the best for you.Come back & post here anytime.You are always welcome.Check out billcotton.com for some good inspiration.And if you don't already know,read any information about Tinker Juarez-a true MTB hero.---zarr


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## Dogdude222 (Aug 31, 2005)

bigkeith said:


> here i am on one of my 4 mountain bikes at valley green in Wissahickon Park


Hey...I've ridden there. Coolest city riding ever!


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## Mellow Yellow (Sep 5, 2003)

*the bottom line*

rride because you love to ride, not because you're of any color. Some minority groups may ride less than other simply because of exposure to the sport and afordability... that's it, period. there is no conspiracy or one reason why it is what it is. It's probably why there isn't more people of color in other sports; like hockey

So, let's just get out there and ride with whom ever shows up, no mater what their race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or creed might be. Just be sure to keep the rubber side down!

Peace


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Hey Mellow? Did you ever have one of those nights when you know you gotta get up in the morning,but you just can't get off the computer because your having a good time? Well here it is for me,all the way live! Good to hear from you! Now you got to understand that I wrote this thread about african-americans because I am African-american & I want to see more of my people enjoying the sport.It does not mean I am partial to african- americans when I tell people about the sport! No way! Far from that! I tell everybody I meet about the sport.I enjoy seeing people having a good time! And that's the way it should be.Some people didn't understand the intentions of this thread.If you came from a background where you knew depression & despair existed,wouldn't you feel the compassion to try to help someone? So now you see---it was just a way for me to introduce myself to the members of the forum and show what kind of person I am.That's all  So now lts all go out and ride & have fun!  ...I mean all of us!!!!!!!!!  ---zarr


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## California L33 (Jul 30, 2005)

wasea04 said:


> I took some of my female friends riding on a tame trail called the GV loop here in St.George and they said mtb'ing was easy, etc. They had a great time. Next time with mostly the same female friends we went to Churchrocks which is a moderate trail as well with similar results, although one girl took a spill where when the trail got rough she dived, literally dived off her bike onto the slickrock. I think she got overwhelmed. Ouch. Along for both of these rides were some of my non mtb male friends too. Of course with them and the chicks both talking about mtb'ing and how I made it sound so hard but it really wasn't and so on, I couldn't help myself but take them on a black diamond trail.:devil: I know, I know, a bad idea. My ego just could not take it anymore and so I took them down the barrels and mustache trails. They were to busy suffering to be impressed. l look back on it and chuckle as none of them, including the fellas, ever want to go again. :bluefrown:


Great way to get people interested in the sport. Maybe you can get some friends interested in swimming with a little sprint across the English Channel


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## rotr no more (Jan 12, 2004)

Mellow Yellow said:


> <img src=https://images.kodakgallery.com/photos3849/5/22/66/24/19/1/119246622503_0_ALB.jpg>


 (sorry photo seems to be deleted by MY. Must be hiding something)

Bwahahahaha.

What's missing are the after photos.

Don't have me post a certain video, MY.  It's still alive and in my computer.

As for AA, black, what have you riding bikes, come on.

You dominate baseball (ok, minus Hispanics, of course), football, basketball, you are starting to take over hockey, and for those that think golf is the sport of whites, there is this guy names Tiger Woods that is OK at it.

Let us have at least one sport we can be good at. Just one. Other than fox hunting. That's just stupid.

Geeze, even cricket is being dominated by folk of color (African British?)

Oh, and before you go flaming me for being racist, at least wait for Mellow to pipe in. I am sure he'll have lots to say about this.

Tim...has ridden, and crashed with, MY many, many times.


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## Mrwhlr (Sep 16, 2006)

Please, someone find an _African_ that gives a damn.


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## cowdog (Apr 14, 2004)

Interesting topic. My wife has been involved in getting women into mtb for over a decade. Watching (and helping), It seems to me that it was easier to find reasons to get women out on a mtb than it was to figure out why women weren't getting involved in the first place. Many people over the years have put in big efforts to get more women on mountain bikes, and I think those efforts are having results. Human behavior is a sticky thing -- just need to get it going.

I started cycling as a kid in the 1960s. In the 1980s I picked up a mountain bike because I wanted something that worked for both transportation and access into the backcountry - a functional tool. I quickly realized that riding a bike on trails was fun in itself. I think the key for me is that cycling was part of my life going way back. As soon as the bikes started showing up, I was ready to jump.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

zarr said:


> I previously posted a thread by this title,and looking back I think I didn't word it correctly to convey its message.I thought the passion forum was meant to let other members know something about ones feelings on issues and also as away to introduce ones self to the mtbr.com community.(I am new) Anyway all I was trying to say was that mountain biking is not a big sport in my community(although I wish it was---because of a kinship I feel toward my people) I also would like to see all people enjoying it because you and I know how beautiful it really is .I think that everyone should tell their friends about it,regardless of what community you come from.And remember--"people don't care what you say-until they know that you care!!   ---from your humble friend, zarr


zarr:

Do a search on "Major Taylor" One of the greatest cyclest of all time! With a fine example like him many have someone to follow...


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Hey guys, I am asian and never see ethnic groups of any background other the caucasion riding locally in the LA area. However ride with a small group of asians. I never see any African Americans on the trail. it would be a nice to see more diversity out on the trails. however when I go solo , I never see anyone out there. It is good get away from everyone once in a while.

as far as females, I blew it on the once chance it had. I was riding solo, in Malibu park and came upon large group of young female mt.bikers. I was a newb at the time and was more concerned with crashing and being dropped by the girls than meeting them. I'm soo stoopid!! The leaders did catch up to me and drop me. however they were very friendly and chatted me up about the local trails. but still I was more worried about being dropped than getting to know them. so off the went and so did about 15 others. 

When was the last time you were chatted up by females along the trail?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

nagatahawk said:


> Hey guys, I am asian and never see ethnic groups of any background other the caucasion riding locally in the LA area. However ride with a small group of asians. I never see any African Americans on the trail. it would be a nice to see more diversity out on the trails. however when I go solo , I never see anyone out there. It is good get away from everyone once in a while.
> 
> as far as females, I blew it on the once chance it had. I was riding solo, in Malibu park and came upon large group of young female mt.bikers. I was a newb at the time and was more concerned with crashing and being dropped by the girls than meeting them. I'm soo stoopid!! The leaders did catch up to me and drop me. however they were very friendly and chatted me up about the local trails. but still I was more worried about being dropped than getting to know them. so off the went and so did about 15 others.
> 
> When was the last time you were chatted up by females along the trail?


Solo Asian noob biker tries to pick up group of young, fit females. Naaahhhhhh...


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Nat said:


> Solo Asian noob biker tries to pick up group of young, fit females. Naaahhhhhh...


Wrong, they approached me and started the conversation. this was a couple of years ago, so don't be soo smug ass bite


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

nagatahawk said:


> Wrong, they approached me and started the conversation. this was a couple of years ago, so don't be soo smug ass bite


Ho ho ho! Okay, okay, they wanted you.


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

nagatahawk said:


> Hey guys, I am asian and never see ethnic groups of any background other the caucasion riding locally in the LA area. However ride with a small group of asians. I never see any African Americans on the trail.....


Where in LA do you ride??? I'm in LA. I ride Sullivan, Back Bone, Caballero, Chesebro, Fryman, Ahmanson, Eagle Rock, and countless trails off dirt Mulholland. Of course most of the riders are white males, but I see all kinds of riders. Black (like me) Latino, Asian... I see women of all races. I've seen kids and people riding with dogs. I'm going to guess that you're Japanese with a name like Nagata. If I'm correct, let me know. I'll look for you on the trails.


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

BunnV said:


> Where in LA do you ride??? I'm in LA. I ride Sullivan, Back Bone, Caballero, Chesebro, Fryman, Ahmanson, Eagle Rock, and countless trails off dirt Mulholland. Of course most of the riders are white males, but I see all kinds of riders. Black (like me) Latino, Asian... I see women of all races. I've seen kids and people riding with dogs. I'm going to guess that you're Japanese with a name like Nagata. If I'm correct, let me know. I'll look for you on the trails.


Bunnv,
I ride some of those, I probably will be up at Chesebro this saturday with a couple of buddies.. pm me if you want to ride. 
I do sullivan solo, my friends don't like the climb. 8 miles up. 
we ride pt. mago sacamore canyon. 
I've been going to the Kenter Whoops latley because it is close and short. trying to sort out my new bikes suspension with different settings.
Later,
Wayne


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

nagatahawk said:


> Bunnv,
> I ride some of those, I probably will be up at Chesebro this saturday with a couple of buddies.. pm me if you want to ride.
> I do sullivan solo, my friends don't like the climb. 8 miles up.
> we ride pt. mago sacamore canyon.


I was at Sycamore (sp?) last weekend! I usually Mt. Bike Sundays. I road-ride or run on Saturdays. We'll figure it out though. Obviously we like the same rides! :thumbsup:


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

*Not to get completely sidetracked, but...*

Ok, I keep seeing this come up and I've got to ask.

I've been wondering about something. Specifically, it's ah... "females". Yes, I suppose I've reached that age, where...

No, about the word. I've lived all over the world, but I've never heard anyone refer to women as "females" until recently. Still, every time I hear someone say that, it triggers images of flannel wearing, bearded, binocular-wielders, like nature show narrators, describing a springbok grappling for his mates hindquarters or something. Somehow, "females" just sounds more, I dunno, biological than "women". If I called my grandmother a "female", she'd probably swing something at me.

Anyway, just curious, is "females" common in the south? I ask because the few people I know who say it are quintessential southerners.


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## B-RAY (Jul 15, 2004)

*B-Ray in the house*

Hey I live and ride in Big Bear and love it. I don't see many african americans any where up here. Buny let me know when u want to get ur ride on up here!!!


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

HotBlack said:


> Still, every time I hear someone say that, it triggers images of flannel wearing, bearded, binocular-wielders, like nature show narrators, describing a springbok grappling for his mates hindquarters or something.


You've never been to Oregon? Bearded females, wearing flannel, "birding" (as if that really counts as an activity).


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## HotBlack (Feb 9, 2008)

Nat said:


> You've never been to Oregon? Bearded females, wearing flannel, "birding" (as if that really counts as an activity).


Ha!

Hm....

Hotblack ponders this.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

HotBlack said:


> Hotblack ponders this.


You wouldn't be the first one. _Somebody _got them pregnant.

Edit: I'm so cracking up about HotBlack contemplating hittin' it with the bearded ladies! This coordinates well with some comments on the Oregon board about dating in Oakridge (mountain town, pop. 3000).


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

I'm going to guess that you're Japanese with a name like Nagata. If I'm correct said:


> My user name Nagatahawk is from Nagata, Japanese and Hawkins. yes brother Hawkins is from the brotherhood. We collaborated in the 90's videotaping RC racing. Nagatahawk Motorsports. I have kept the name although we no longer roll tape. I still race but it's been while. When I ride the last thing on my mind is video.


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## MFDOOM (Mar 26, 2008)

Nat said:


> Solo Asian noob biker tries to pick up group of young, fit females. Naaahhhhhh...


Why the need to be such an @sshole?


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## BunnV (Sep 7, 2005)

B-RAY said:


> Hey I live and ride in Big Bear and love it. I don't see many african americans any where up here. Buny let me know when u want to get ur ride on up here!!!


B-Ray! I rode Big Bear about 6 years ago and I sure as hell didn't see any black folks except for me and the noob I was riding with. I wish I had run into you so you could show me the cool local trails! I've ridden Tahoe and the Sequoias too and they are both very similar to your area as far as natural beauty and altitude. (Tahoe is the winner overall though....)


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*25th Infantry Bicycle Corps*

To all readers of this thread. Go into your computers' search engine and read information about the 25th Infantry Bicycle Corps.---zarr


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

Been awhile since I've been here. Nice to see photos of the brothers and their bikes. Any New York riders? I've been reading about that trail in Manhattan (Highbridge Park). Anyone here ever done it? I live in Atlanta but do some summer commutes to New York. My cousin's girlfriend lives in Philly and I have heard about some good riding out that way. Planning to bring the bikes and would like to get some trail time in or do a group ride with some of you guys.


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## redrider_stx (Nov 20, 2006)

Has anyone in here ever heard of the Dirt Road Kings (DRK) in Georgia?

Has anyone ever heard or know anyone in this group?

http://www.blackskiinc.org/cycling.html


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

This week end at Chesebro, I saw a lot of diversity on the trail, several asians, 2 blacks, plenty of whites and no girls. 

during the climb, I fell on some rocks and bent the hanger, and on the down hill, a branch attacked my rear wheel and broke 3 spokes. I will try it again this week end.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*...Hot News!!*

Don't forget to put in your computer seach engines about the 25th Infantry Bicycle Corps, and especially the story about maybe the greatest of all the soldiers-...Sgt. Mingo Sanders-a true African American Biking hero.-Don't miss it!!---zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> Don't forget to put in your computer seach engines about the 25th Infantry Bicycle Corps, and especially the story about maybe the greatest of all the soldiers-...Sgt. Mingo Sanders-a true African American Biking hero.-Don't miss it!!---zarr


Big shout outs go out to Mr.Obama who was out and about on his bike.:thumbsup: Check him out on the thread,"Obama rides with his saddle too low". Mountain Biking...President stye.  :thumbsup:


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## DoinkMobb (Nov 17, 2007)

Of all my brown friends and co-workers, I don't think any of them would be interested in doing outdoor activities. I took my friend camping once and he was confused as to why we (white people) would voluntarily sleep in a tent outside in the cold. I told him it's just how us white folk roll. 

I don't think MTB is really marketed to non-white people. When I think of mountain biking, I think of Colorado. When I think of Colorado, I think of white people skiing, snowboarding, hiking, camping, hunting, biking, etc. When I picture a typical biker, it's a white guy with shaved legs wearing brightly colored spandex. 

One of my black co-workers kinda explained something to me one day: he was saying that he was made fun of by other black kids and even his friends because he wasn't "black enough" or acted "too white". He was saying it's hard to be a little bit different in the black community. I'm pretty sure his friends would've disowned him if he showed up at their house decked out in spandex with a Gary Fisher on the back of his car.

I dunno, it seems like riding a bike through the woods should equally appeal to a certain percentage of all races and colors, but it doesn't seem that way. I, for one, would like to be an ambassador and welcome my brown friends to join me on a hike or to go camping or tear down some singletrack.


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## traildoc (Mar 5, 2007)

*D.C Rider Comes to Sedona to Do World Class Riding*



zarr said:


> I previously posted a thread by this title,and looking back I think I didn't word it correctly to convey its message.I thought the passion forum was meant to let other members know something about ones feelings on issues and also as away to introduce ones self to the mtbr.com community.(I am new) Anyway all I was trying to say was that mountain biking is not a big sport in my community(although I wish it was---because of a kinship I feel toward my people) I also would like to see all people enjoying it because you and I know how beautiful it really is .I think that everyone should tell their friends about it,regardless of what community you come from.And remember--"people don't care what you say-until they know that you care!!   ---from your humble friend, zarr


Today was the typical gathering of the local yokels to do a group ride of some of the Sedona favorites. Since Sedona is a World Class mountain bike destination you never know who is going to show up for a ride.

Today we were blessed with one of Washington D.C.'s best riders. Gerard had been to Sedona two years previously and had enjoyed the riding so much he decided to come back and make another run at it.

He has been monitoring the Arizona MTBR forum recently, and decided to hook-up with the local bike shop ride to see what all the world class B.S. was all about. Previously he had ridden the Secret Trail area and he has decided to step it up a notch or two.

When he pulled up to the shop we instantly bonded. I could tell Gerard was a special dude and as the self appointed ambassador to Sedona trail riding I took him under my wing.

After finding a bike for him I cleaned up the bike he would be riding, lubed the chain, adjusted the derailleur and set the air to his lean 180 lb. frame. During the set up period you could tell Gerard was really looking forward to the ride he had waited two years to do.

Once we got his bike set up we headed out to one of more favorite riding areas to see how he would. I was really concerned about the heat since they were forecasting 96 degrees for the day. As we climbed the Shelby jeep road it was a little warm but not too bad. When we got up to Cow Pies a little cool breeze picked up and around 9:30 AM it was turning out to be a nice day.

Being a world class D.C. rider Gerard and the rest of the group kicked my butt up to this point. I was beginning to think I was going to be at the back of the pack the whole ride. Once we got to the techie part of Cow Pies the picture changed a little, I was no loner at the back and Gerard was getting to try out some riding on the type of trail he had never seen before. Being a good sport and having good judgment he walked numerous real difficult sections.

When we got to the world-class uphill section, I pointed to where the trail was and Gerard thought I was crazy. I told him there was only one way to make the climb and he had to follow close to make it w/o dabbing. As we started the climb Gerard got off track early on and had to walk a large portion of the climb.

At the top of the slickrock portion I asked Gerard if he had brought a camera. He said yes and I took it from him to take videos of the rest of his ride. As it turned out he said he had the best ride of his life and that even though he didn't ride all the hard sections his riding improved dramatically. He also indicated he was going suggest to the rest of his D.C brothers that they come out o Sedona to do some epic riding.

This is the only picture I took of him on my camera when we took a safety break after his girlfriend Donna called on his cell phone to see how things were going on the ride. The second picure is looking done on the slickrock area we rode.

zarr let me know if you ever come to Sedona I would be happy to show you all the special rides.

Doc


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## Razorfish (May 9, 2008)

I see black dudes on road bikes all the time in my area but never on mtb.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Razorfish said:


> I see black dudes on road bikes all the time in my area but never on mtb.


Maybe I should have titled this thead "a rare occurance in MTB". mmmmmm.


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## aries14 (Nov 23, 2005)

*A Few More Pics*

A few photos from the past few months. Fair Hill, Brandywine and Middle Run.


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## LocalRiderSe7en (May 1, 2007)

LMAO, just checking in!!! I am an avid MTB rider since two years ago. I am both Black and Hispanic so I fit into two minorities not often seen on the trails. When my wife has our child he/she will be Black, Hispanic, and Scottish (White). So I guess he/she will go further in proving that this entire thread is non-sense because he/she will also take to the trails without regard for race, ethnic background or skin color. If anyone here is attempting to better the human race, or empower some race to live a certain lifestyle I believe there are several better ways to do so. It seems this thread has an undulation all its own in which it spirals out of control into the depths of racial profiling and ethnic degredation by way of using monetary encumbrances as a hurdle to the sport. Then it climbs that rocky ledge once again as posters leave links for astounding Black riders and what-not. 

When I was a kid I rode my Woolworth mountain bike in the woods till it broke, then I fixed it myself and rode it till it broke again. Not cause I was poor, but because that is the mentality that I have. Now, as a man I feel I have come full circle. I bought an entry level bike and I ride it hard till it breaks, then I fix it and (have fun) doing it all over again. Some day I will purchase a Full Suspension bike with my hard earned money and continue to leave my mark in the hills of Western Maryland. And I will do so with a very diverse group of friends and acquaintances. All whom I know because they love life, not mountain biking per se. 

My point is this, and I think it is true for most things in life: Mountain Biking, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Water Skiing, Sea Fishing, Hunting, etcetera, etcetera...These are not sports we enjoy because we are Black or White or Asian or whatever. We enjoy these activities because they are fun, plain and simple, they provide some sort of positive reinforcement to go on living life. When are we all going to get over the color barrier and realize that skin color should mean the same as hair color, that racial background need only be a conversation that keeps alive the memories of our ancestors and the pride of our heritage. We all like different things and some of us are so wound up in our own environment that we sometimes fail to explore the shadows just beyond the light of our comforting lantern.

I consider myslef lucky to be able to have the oportunity and the knowledge to go into the mountains and ride when I feel like it. I feel proud of every friend, Black or White, that I introduce to the sport because I know that I am sharing something that brings me so much joy and I hope that I can pass that joy to another person, that they, in turn, will do the same. 

I think that the effort on the part of the OP was in good faith, but in my very humble opinion, I believe that the direction of the post as well as the thread in general is misstepping and focusing on racial backgrounds and not on the human race as a whole. We cannot continue to enslave ourselves with this thought if we have any desire to love. I see the love that each of you has for different things. Allow that love to permeate to all things, to all people.


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## streetpro0323 (Sep 16, 2005)

*Be easy Local dude!!!*



LocalRiderSe7en said:


> All whom I know because they love life, not mountain biking per se.
> 
> My point is this, and I think it is true for most things in life: Mountain Biking, Snowboarding, Rock Climbing, Water Skiing, Sea Fishing, Hunting, etcetera, etcetera...These are not sports we enjoy because we are Black or White or Asian or whatever. We enjoy these activities because they are fun, plain and simple, they provide some sort of positive reinforcement to go on living life. When are we all going to get over the color barrier and realize that skin color should mean the same as hair color, that racial background need only be a conversation that keeps alive the memories of our ancestors and the pride of our heritage. We all like different things and some of us are so wound up in our own environment that we sometimes fail to explore the shadows just beyond the light of our comforting lantern.
> 
> ...


It's just a few pics of some dudes that LOVE to ride and LOVE life..Hope your not upset at this thread or for that matter any of the posts here. Zarr started this thread with the hope of finding out if there were more AA's riding MT bikes..not to start any trouble or bad blood. I'm not sure I understand the racial profiling your speaking of anyway. I here ya on the Woolworth Bike and fixing it up (kind of how we started but the bug bit us) but I kind of wanted to put that fixing time to riding time ..Ya dig? Hey we ride in Md as well hope to pass you on the trail!! And I do mean Pass you. (just a challenge is all):thumbsup:


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## LocalRiderSe7en (May 1, 2007)

LOL! Oh not upset at all. Just wanted to pass along a different mentality or school of thought . I am rarely passed so we will have to see about that!!! But I do hope to see you out on the trails.


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## Natedogz (Apr 4, 2008)

aries14 said:


> ...Word of advice, keep on riding. Don't worry about the color. Find a group of guys you like and get your ride on, and remember that once those lungs start burning, color is the last thing you're thinking about!!!


X2.................... :thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Natedogz said:


> X2.................... :thumbsup:


x3!........Do that! ...and still reach out to others around you who can benefit by learning about our sport...regardless of color. :thumbsup: ...Each one teach one.---zarr


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> I previously posted a thread by this title,and looking back I think I didn't word it correctly to convey its message.I thought the passion forum was meant to let other members know something about ones feelings on issues and also as away to introduce ones self to the mtbr.com community.(I am new) Anyway all I was trying to say was that mountain biking is not a big sport in my community(although I wish it was---because of a kinship I feel toward my people) I also would like to see all people enjoying it because you and I know how beautiful it really is .I think that everyone should tell their friends about it,regardless of what community you come from.And remember--"people don't care what you say-until they know that you care!!   ---from your humble friend, zarr


Just thought I'd try to help some folks out on the Sabbath (Saturday Aug.2 2008).Motobecane makes good bikes at often unbeatable prices.You can buy them online at bikesdirect.com . Make sure you only receive delivery if the carton is sealed from the factory.---zarr


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

zarr said:


> Just thought I'd try to help some folks out on the Sabbath (Saturday Aug.2 2008).Motobecane makes good bikes at often unbeatable prices.You can buy them online at bikesdirect.com . Make sure you only receive delivery if the carton is sealed from the factory.---zarr


To further that thought... There is an Ebay retailer in Florida who sells Motobecanes for great prices and reasonable shipping charges... I bought my Outcast 26 singlespeed from him/her as an inexpensive way to try one gear.

Cheers all!

Chuck


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

chuckha62 said:


> To further that thought... There is an Ebay retailer in Florida who sells Motobecanes for great prices and reasonable shipping charges... I bought my Outcast 26 singlespeed from him/her as an inexpensive way to try one gear.
> 
> Cheers all!
> 
> Chuck


Thanks for that input Chuck! :thumbsup:


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## Natedogz (Apr 4, 2008)

zarr said:


> Just thought I'd try to help some folks out on the Sabbath (Saturday Aug.2 2008).Motobecane makes good bikes at often unbeatable prices.You can buy them online at bikesdirect.com . Make sure you only receive delivery if the carton is sealed from the factory.---zarr


Sweet tip, thanks.


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## Ratman (May 13, 2005)

*Very kool topic (sorry of the rant!)*

I didn't read every post in this thread but I think it's good that the afro american MTB rider is getting some exposure MTBR.COM. I did want to make a few points though.

I'm african american (aka a black dude) and I've been riding on and off since 1997. My 1st MTB was a 1996 Gary Fisher Paragon (I still have it) that I saved up for months to buy while I was working a job paying near minimum wage. Back then (just like now) I rode in groups that were all white guys and girls. My black friends thought I was insane to pay $1000 for a bike to ride around on a mountain but I did not care because it was what I wanted to do. I'd try and sell them on the enjoyment of riding but it was basically a waste of my time. Anything more than the $100 Wal-Mart bike was a waste of money. We all make decent livings now and can afford better bicycles but my same black friends still think I'm an idiot because I still enjoy MTB biking.

My point to all this rambling is that while economics and income CERTAINLY play a role in what hobbies (if any) people take part in, it has been my personal experience that a lack of exposure and just plain ol' ignorance is what has kept my black friends from trying mountain biking even more than the money one needs to partake in the sport. Case in point....

I wanted to try single speeding so I put together an old Kona frame figuring if I didn't like it my total investment is basically nothing. The two guys (white guys) I ride with these days own an Ellsworth ID and a Specialized Stumpy. Granted none of us are pros but on our last ride I totally smoked them with my "parts bin" Kona. Again, my point is that money isn't everything IMHO. I think a person needs proper introduction and a desire to try the sport more than the ability to buy a high-end bicycle.

As a black guy, I wish more afro americans would try our sport but one thing I know for certain is that quality riding buddies can be found in all races!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Ratman said:


> I didn't read every post in this thread but I think its good that the afro american MTB rider is getting some exposure MTBR.COM. I did want to make a few points though.
> 
> I'm african american (aka a black dude) and I've been riding on and off since 1997. My 1st MTB was a 1996 Gary Fisher Paragon (I still have it) that I saved up for months to buy while I was working a job paying near mininum wage. Back then (just like now) I rode in groups that were all white guys and girls. My black friends thought I was insane to pay $1000 for a bike to ride around on a mountain but I did not care because it was what I wanted to do. I'd try and sell them on the enjoyment of riding but it was basically a waste of my time. Anything more that the $100 Walmart bike was a waste of money. We all make decent livings now and can afford better bicycles but my same black friends still think I'm an idiot because I still enjoy MTB biking.
> 
> ...


If I only get through to one then my job has surely been done tell me what could be better.We gotta get it together.---zarr  .-- :thumbsup:


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## nugg_dawg (Aug 4, 2008)

DoinkMobb said:


> One of my black co-workers kinda explained something to me one day: he was saying that he was made fun of by other black kids and even his friends because he wasn't "black enough" or acted "too white". He was saying it's hard to be a little bit different in the black community. I'm pretty sure his friends would've disowned him if he showed up at their house decked out in spandex with a Gary Fisher on the back of his car.


This guy nailed it.

It's actually funny that a brotha will be chastised by other brotha's if he were to act "white". But it's cool for white boy to act black.

I dunno, I be actin' ghetto as hell sometime' AND I'm Korean AND speak the language of C#.........WHERE DOES THAT LAND ME?

Does the fact that I'm listening to Lil' Wayne AND can do logic actually cancel each other out?

John


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

I've read the replies in this thread about how MTB is not known to be a popular sport in the black community.This is true.I don't currently live in an all black community, but a multi racial one.I walk through and meet people in all communities, and it really doesn't matter what color people are to me as long as people are friendly.I just think mountain biking needs to be introduced to african american people if for no other reason that it hasn't been.There's always going to be some skepticism when you introduce anything new to any group of people.But then there's always going to be some that are going to show interest.It's fascinating.If you ask me why I became so interested in MTB, I'd have to tell you, "I don't know".Spirit moves as it will.Why me? Nobody around me did it.I guess I was chosen.I just wanted to buy a bike to ride in the park.I didn't want a road bike because I felt it was too light duty for me.I could have chosen a cruiser bike.But it didn't turn out that way.MountainBiking chose me! :thumbsup: ... .Now mountain biking is an Olympic sport.(I think Aug. 22nd is the date of the Olympic event).Wouldn't it be nice to see the African-American community represented in the U.S. mountain biking events? Sure! :thumbsup: That's why I want to bring mountain biking among my people.:thumbsup: !...Stuff like that.Maybe I was chosen to spread the word!---zarr


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## ArmedMonk (Oct 20, 2007)

*This thread is SO racist..............*

it is sad. There should not be a color bar. We are all just people. It is pretty sad that some folks dwell on the pigmentation of another persons skin. No questions of "race". We are all members of the "Human" race! Just go ride your damn bike and enjoy it!rft:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

ArmedMonk said:


> it is sad. There should not be a color bar. We are all just people. It is pretty sad that some folks dwell on the pigmentation of another persons skin. No questions of "race". We are all members of the "Human" race! Just go ride your damn bike and enjoy it!rft:


What's racist about this thread?


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## nagatahawk (Jun 20, 2007)

Ratman said:


> I didn't read every post in this thread but I think it's good that the afro american MTB rider is getting some exposure MTBR.COM. I did want to make a few points though.
> 
> I'm african american (aka a black dude) and I've been riding on and off since 1997. My 1st MTB was a 1996 Gary Fisher Paragon (I still have it) that I saved up for months to buy while I was working a job paying near minimum wage. Back then (just like now) I rode in groups that were all white guys and girls. My black friends thought I was insane to pay $1000 for a bike to ride around on a mountain but I did not care because it was what I wanted to do. I'd try and sell them on the enjoyment of riding but it was basically a waste of my time. Anything more than the $100 Wal-Mart bike was a waste of money. We all make decent livings now and can afford better bicycles but my same black friends still think I'm an idiot because I still enjoy MTB biking.
> 
> ...


Ratman
I ride(road bikes) with a couple of brothers in the LA/fairfax area, and there is large group that rides out of Marina Del Rey. This is all because there are probably more, black/cyclist per capita in LA than where you live.

Like you said when I mentiion mt. bikes to them, they get glazzy eyed and start yawning. I just ride with people I can hook up with.

Check out this Months Bicycling mag. (I think that's the one.) there is an articla about a black NFL football player who shuns SUV's and rides a single speed to work (practice) and gets the similar treatment from his fellow players. He also tries to recruit them into riding.

Later,
Wayne


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> To all readers of this thread. Go into your computers' search engine and read information about the 25th Infantry Bicycle Corps.---zarr


Also billcotton.com.Don't forget guys- the MTB Olympic events are coming up soon. (Aug.22nd I think) :thumbsup:


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## Kcnflman (Jun 30, 2008)

I rarely consider color when looking at a new bike


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Kcnflman said:


> I rarely consider color when looking at a new bike


Me either.But what does that have to do with spreading the word to the uninformed about mountain biking?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

zarr said:


> I've read the replies in this thread about how MTB is not known to be a popular sport in the black community.This is true.I don't currently live in an all black community, but a multi racial one.I walk through and meet people in all communities, and it really doesn't matter what color people are to me as long as people are friendly.I just think mountain biking needs to be introduced to african american people if for no other reason that it hasn't been.There's always going to be some skepticism when you introduce anything new to any group of people.But then there's always going to be some that are going to show interest.It's fascinating.If you ask me why I became so interested in MTB, I'd have to tell you, "I don't know".Spirit moves as it will.Why me? Nobody around me did it.I guess I was chosen.I just wanted to buy a bike to ride in the park.I didn't want a road bike because I felt it was too light duty for me.I could have chosen a cruiser bike.But it didn't turn out that way.MountainBiking chose me! :thumbsup: ... .Now mountain biking is an Olympic sport.(I think Aug. 22nd is the date of the Olympic event).Wouldn't it be nice to see the African-American community represented in the U.S. mountain biking events? Sure! :thumbsup: That's why I want to bring mountain biking among my people.:thumbsup: !...Stuff like that.Maybe I was chosen to spread the word!---zarr


i'm sorry Kcnflman.Read this quote.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Jerk_Chicken said:


> Yup, be here's one that Zarr thought worked, but antonio didn't:
> http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=4172238&postcount=72
> 
> Here is photographic encouragement on how to bring more people in, but it wasn't good enough, either. None of the responses were. I sense agenda as well. I won't even get into the narrow scope of the ethnic groups being described and defined either.
> ...


If you mean what you said, then why have you made the decision to attack me at every twist and turn under the sun? Stop trying to make me look like a fool and a bad guy and leave me alone.---zarr


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

Personally I'd rather ride with wimmens than any of you guys. Can we start a "Why more women don't ride" thread.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

*You ever hear the saying "let sleeping dogs lie"??*



zarr said:


> If you mean what you said, then why have you made the decision to attack me at every twist and turn under the sun? Stop trying to make me look like a fool and a bad guy and leave me alone.---zarr


Why the hell would you bring back a post that died 6 months ago unless you like to get ***** slapped?? You are starting to get under a lot of people's skin. Do me a favor, don't post.....anything.


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## damnitzhym (Feb 1, 2009)

I’m a 41 yr old black MTB rider. Just got into the sport 2 summers ago and I love it! I ride @ Patapsco-Avalon in Maryland and have only crossed paths with one other black rider in that time. He didn’t speak. However, as a novice, I’ve received nothing but friendly “hellos” and sometimes encouragement from other riders on the trails. Someone always asks if I need help if they happen to see me off the path resting or just taking in the sights. That’s the type of community I want to be a part of ) 

Our backgrounds are as diverse as any other ethnic group. In the sections of Queens and Brooklyn, NY where I grew up and lived I had no exposure to this sport. I lived in Balt., MD 8yrs before anyone I knew put it on my radar. Thankfully, a white co-worker who has since become a good friend and biking buddy, not only told me about MTBing, but jumped at the opportunity to take me on the trails once I showed an interest.

I cannot speak for all black folks, but for many of us “real” exposure or the lack thereof is the primary reason a lot of us don’t engage in many pursuits, be they professional or recreational. You can’t take advantage of opportunities you’re never exposed to. Just my $0.02.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

damnitzhym said:


> I'm a 41 yr old black MTB rider. Just got into the sport 2 summers ago and I love it! I ride @ Patapsco-Avalon in Maryland and have only crossed paths with one other black rider in that time. He didn't speak. However, as a novice, I've received nothing but friendly "hellos" and sometimes encouragement from other riders on the trails. Someone always asks if I need help if they happen to see me off the path resting or just taking in the sights. That's the type of community I want to be a part of )
> 
> Our backgrounds are as diverse as any other ethnic group. In the sections of Queens and Brooklyn, NY where I grew up and lived I had no exposure to this sport. I lived in Balt., MD 8yrs before anyone I knew put it on my radar. Thankfully, a white co-worker who has since become a good friend and biking buddy, not only told me about MTBing, but jumped at the opportunity to take me on the trails once I showed an interest.
> 
> ...


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## BuckshotJones (Aug 25, 2008)

As an african american I've always tried to do things that were fun. I never liked to limit myself to things that were considered things "black people do." To this day I get funny looks when I tell all my friends, of all colors, that I'm going hunting, fishing, shooting, MTBing, or to a NASCAR race, but I tell them all "hey why not...Its fun you should try it!" And of course I get the "nah man...that's not for me." If only they'd try it they'd see how much fun is out there. I wish people were more open minded, but I'm not here to hold anyone's hand. Saddle up, or sit in the truck...

I embrace my african american roots as well as my South Texas pride. I grew up this way. I am who I am and I do what I do. If people don't like it, well they're the ones missing out.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

BuckshotJones said:


> As an african american I've always tried to do things that were fun. I never liked to limit myself to things that were considered things "black people do." To this day I get funny looks when I tell all my friends, of all colors, that I'm going hunting, fishing, shooting, MTBing, or to a NASCAR race, but I tell them all "hey why not...Its fun you should try it!" And of course I get the "nah man...that's not for me." If only they'd try it they'd see how much fun is out there. I wish people were more open minded, but I'm not here to hold anyone's hand. Saddle up, or sit in the truck...
> 
> I embrace my african american roots as well as my South Texas pride. I grew up this way. I am who I am and I do what I do. If people don't like it, well they're the ones missing out.


Sho 'nuff missing out. Don't worry about it. It;s not for everyone. Drop a couple of words and then go enjoy yourself. That's official. :thumbsup:


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## hitek79 (Oct 24, 2008)

I skipped over all the arguing, but this is a pretty interesting thread. I'm actually surprised by how many ethnic groups chimed in.

I'm half mexi/irish, and snowboard, mtb, and road bike. What's even stranger is that my 2 best friends are Chinese and Black and they both snowboard and ride. We make jokes about our oddball crew, but hey, we're just out there having fun like everyone else. 

I would say there are a few factors that affect the sports we choose. 1st would be economics, but beyond that, is social issues. If you're black, you naturally align yourself with black athletes, and tend to drift towards sports like football and basketball. I drifted towards soccer because I could more easily relate to those athletes. Considering that white people tend to play every single sport out there, they're more likely to drift towards all types of sports. There are a lot of other stereotypes out there, and a lot of them are true, but I would say those are the main reasons. Trust me, when the first black hockey player starts to get close to even one of Wayne Gretzky's records, you'll see more young black athletes take an interest in the sport.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

Another reason why people don't bike is because most adults think bike riding is for kids- Something you do when you're young and grow out of when you become an adult.


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## William42 (Oct 29, 2006)

Kcnflman said:


> I rarely consider color when looking at a new bike


You know, I'd mostly been scanning up until this point, I didn't really have anything to add till I read this, but I guess it deserves to be added, that I rarely notice the RIDER when I'm looking at a bike. Color of the bike? Sure I notice it - ethnicity/gender/height/weight/look of the rider, or even that there IS a rider? Not really, no guarantees!


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## Seanbike (Mar 23, 2004)

Ethnicity only matters when I'm deciding whose house to eat at after the ride. I like burritos and soul food after a ride more than a burger.


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## ProfGumby (Feb 27, 2008)

saturnine said:


> does it boil down to a money issue? anyone with money to burn can buy a nice bike, those without cannot.


If the issue was solely a money based issue, then there would definitely be more diversity of races and backgrounds in Mountain Biking. I don't think it is a money issue that could answer Zarr's question.


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## ProfGumby (Feb 27, 2008)

zarr said:


> Another reason why people don't bike is because most adults think bike riding is for kids- Something you do when you're young and grow out of when you become an adult.


That is their loss and our gain!
:thumbsup:


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## photorider (Dec 6, 2008)

*Obama should ride*

What everyone, Afro Americans included could benefit from would be Barack bustin' some trail. I love this sport, and would enjoy seeing him leading the way. I'm sure my stimulis check is going to my LBS. Wouldn't that be cool to see him jammin out on the rock in Utah? 
:thumbsup:


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

IMBA needs to go a court'n. Get Obama out on a bike and get him hooked.


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## jollybeggar (Feb 2, 2004)

I'm not into Chinese but if a chinese brother invites me to grub I'm eat'n. I know for a fact that the only thing most MTBers discriminate on is the brand of beer they're drink'n, even then I don't any wars will break out if you bring a free beer of any kind.


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## goat (Mar 5, 2004)

It would be great if more women rode mountain bikes or road bikes for that matter. All the women I have seen who are seriously into cycling have really nice stomachs, and tight asses. Thats a good thing not a bad thing for all you pansies (and WO MANS) who are going to say I am sexist. 
So cheers, to women who want to ride!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

photorider said:


> What everyone, Afro Americans included could benefit from would be Barack bustin' some trail. I love this sport, and would enjoy seeing him leading the way. I'm sure my stimulis check is going to my LBS. Wouldn't that be cool to see him jammin out on the rock in Utah?
> :thumbsup:


Barak would have to ride some easy trails though. Too dangerous for a President otherwise I think.


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## goat (Mar 5, 2004)

This thread is awesome.


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## chas_martel (May 14, 2006)

saturnine said:


> does it boil down to a money issue? anyone with money to burn can buy a nice bike, those without cannot.


I think this comment is racist. Well, borderline at least.
Can you explain your point?


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## Gundam168 (Dec 19, 2012)

I think it's primarily a geographic population distribution issue more than anything else. A lot of African Americans are in urban centers where mountain biking is not the recreation activity of choice.

Note: I was about to make a new thread about this until I found this thread.


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## Seven Point (Oct 20, 2011)

Personally, Ive seen a lot more African Americans on the mtb trails in Florida than at the weekend bike club road ride. Im a small hispanic dude, and love seeing the diversity everywhere. My last girlfriend was African American, and I would love to see more women (of all races) on the road and mtb bikes in general. A woman that rides, that is hot!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

wow...I started this thread a long time ago.I now know that mountain biking is not a major sport ANYWHERE...those who enjoy it are drawn to it for many reasons.
Now I just enjoy it and mildly speak of it to those who ask about it or occasionally I might mention it to folks I think might enjoy it.
Prolly the easiest way is to give folks the mtbr website address and let them learn for themselves.It's a lot easier that way.
:thumbsup:


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## brianW. (Nov 15, 2010)

I teach at a school that is 70% black 30% white. My students know that I ride a lot. Most of believe that bikes are for kids. In the last few years I have seen on the trails/roads more minorities riding. Is ha a good thing? Of course, anytime people no matter what race they are start riding it is a good thing. Personally I would love to see more kids and families riding. I fell in love with the outdoors when I was a kid hanks to the Boy Scouts. To me it does not matter if I am outside hiking, skins, snowshoes, kayak or on my bike. As long as I am outside I am happy.


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## kurrefromtungere (Aug 26, 2012)

> I think we need a bigger female mtb population, regardless of race.


:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

....Sometimes...less people on the trail= less traffic on the trails.  :thumbsup:


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## sho220 (Aug 3, 2005)

photorider said:


> What everyone, Afro Americans included could benefit from would be Barack bustin' some trail. I love this sport, and would enjoy seeing him leading the way. I'm sure my stimulis check is going to my LBS. Wouldn't that be cool to see him jammin out on the rock in Utah?
> :thumbsup:


Here ya go! Shreddin' some trail!!!


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## t0pcat (May 7, 2012)

1st welcome zarr! 2nd after glancing thru this thread i'm wondering if perhaps there are more whites on bikes cause as kids we grew up on them more than blacks as we were a bit more suburban and they were a bit more urban? And as some other posters mentioned PASSION will bring followers! I really don't think its a money thing,there is walmart the bikes may not be high end but any bike is better than no bike! I started on a huffy! I also think a lot of people that ride with passion ride alone a lot as its the riding that is most important even more so than the comradry. Keep riding zarr others will follow and if you ever feel rike doin a ride in nepa drop me a line we'll get together!


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

t0pcat said:


> 1st welcome zarr! 2nd after glancing thru this thread i'm wondering if perhaps there are more whites on bikes cause as kids we grew up on them more than blacks as we were a bit more suburban and they were a bit more urban? And as some other posters mentioned PASSION will bring followers! I really don't think its a money thing,there is walmart the bikes may not be high end but any bike is better than no bike! I started on a huffy! I also think a lot of people that ride with passion ride alone a lot as its the riding that is most important even more so than the comradry. Keep riding zarr others will follow and if you ever feel rike doin a ride in nepa drop me a line we'll get together!


Well thats a very nice invite! ....first I gotta learn to walk again (I lost my foot due to diabetic complications etc.)...then prolly by spring I'll be trying to ride again.


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## mikeridesabike (Feb 16, 2009)

I didn't read through all 4 years of this thread, so this may have been mentioned, but one of the first great American bike racers was Major Taylor, an African-American. I read a very interesting biography of him many years ago.

He did 6 day races back when that meant you actually had to go out there and ride for 6 days.

Who Was Major Taylor?


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

mikeridesabike said:


> I didn't read through all 4 years of this thread, so this may have been mentioned, but one of the first great American bike racers was Major Taylor, an African-American. I read a very interesting biography of him many years ago.
> 
> He did 6 day races back when that meant you actually had to go out there and ride for 6 days.
> 
> Who Was Major Taylor?


Yep...pretty remarkable featde
Ride strong and live strong...just don't armstrong.:thumbsup:


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## Steineken (Dec 11, 2012)

interesting discussion, great to see people promoting diversity and like many of said its a fun sport so why not share it. i hate when things get 'pigeon holed' white or black or whatever.

Im white from Bermuda where the population is about 60-70% black with a large non bermudian (expat) community. I find cycling, both road and mountain biking is one of the most diverse sports on the island where you have a mix of races and locals/expats and i think the sport is richer and more fun for this reason. bikes here are something really bond over and its pretty awesome, hopefully this happens more around the world as the sport grows in popularity.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

*25th Infantry Bicycle Corps*

Here's something someone might find interesting. Read and enjoy.
The Historical Museum at Fort Missoula » Black Bicycle Corps


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## CraigCreekRider (Apr 12, 2007)

zarr said:


> Here's something someone might find interesting. Read and enjoy.
> The Historical Museum at Fort Missoula » Black Bicycle Corps


Awesome stuff. I had seen some of those pics before but not all of them thanks for sharing. Those guys were true adventurers.:thumbsup:


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