# Why are we still reading this?



## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

This is copied from an Ebike forum...
However, a day ago my brother just had his 4th motor fitted after another fail whilst out together this week, I’m currently now on my 3rd motor, the inconvenience of these fails isn’t good, at what point does the terrible reliability and inconvenience overtake the love for the bike?

We can’t keep returning the bikes to the bike shops at this rate for new motors surely! What is the answer?

Do you think Specialized will get on top of this issue within the next couple of years? If not I’ll need to get rid of the bike prematurely with some warranty remaining so it still has some value.

Thankfully we have the 4 year warranty, without that I couldn’t afford to run/use the bike with these failures occurring so regularly, and the worry about failure/expenditure would ruin my enjoyment anyway, but at what point should compensation or even an allowance to reject the bike be considered by Specialized? 
.......
Why are people still buying that junk???


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

“Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” You don’t have to keep going back to Specialized after the motor failures, there are other bikes out there that do not have this issue.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

33red said:


> at what point does the terrible reliability and inconvenience overtake the love for the bike?


uuuummmm the second motor


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

The O/P can't really change to another make as it's under warranty. What motor is fitted? Does the dealer have any explanation for the failures, water ingress, gearbox failure, speed controller failure?
Turn up the trail/eco settings and avoid boost mode, which puts most strain on the system.
l live in the Peak District Derbyshire and everything is a hill here. l've been out today and done 22 miles, not used "boost" once, 90% of the time l was in eco, which only ever gives up to 60% of the maximum assistance on the settings l've programmed it with.
Never felt the need to use boost/turbo mode, even on steep technical climbs where l would rather pick my way up than just smash over everything.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

lotusdriver said:


> The O/P can't really change to another make as it's under warranty.


Huh? It's not like he is under contractual obligation to only ride Specialized bikes. Just takes one swipe of the credit card to get a new bike.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

These guys seem to have the weak points of the Brose figured out. It's odd that Specialized keeps stabbing motors with known issues back into their bikes instead of upgrading them. Maybe they're backstopped by Brose, so they're obligated to replace with like kind and quality?

It would appear that pedal strikes, and water are the big issues, so I've been avoiding those things, but I fully intend to send my motor to these guys when my two year (Bulls) warranty expires. The price is reasonable, less than tax alone on a new bike, so why not just keep it running?


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## OMEGANOX (Dec 2, 2004)

Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano. Choose one of the three if you want all smiles and no cries.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

RBoardman said:


> Huh? It's not like he is under contractual obligation to only ride Specialized bikes. Just takes one swipe of the credit card to get a new bike.


Well yes it does, but he's already swiped his credit card for an expensive ebike and not everyone can just write that off and buy another, l certainly couldn't.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

OMEGANOX said:


> Bosch, Yamaha and Shimano. Choose one of the three if you want all smiles and no cries.


Until they break. The people doing rebuilds on Brose are doing them on the other major brands too, and not because they don't have their own problems.

.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

lotusdriver said:


> Well yes it does, but he's already swiped his credit card for an expensive ebike and not everyone can just write that off and buy another, l certainly couldn't.


That's a different situation then. The good thing is the used ebike market is really high right now, and you can literally sell a used high end spec'd Levo, and buy a brand new Commencal E-bike and still be able to pocket some money.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

That is an option. Here in the U.K. everything is sold out though.
Hopefully it's better where you are. Like the weather really.
At the moment it's freezing cold with snow here, no bike ride for me tonight


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

_CJ said:


> These guys seem to have the weak points of the Brose figured out. It's odd that Specialized keeps stabbing motors with known issues back into their bikes instead of upgrading them. Maybe they're backstopped by Brose, so they're obligated to replace with like kind and quality?
> 
> It would appear that pedal strikes, and water are the big issues, so I've been avoiding those things, but I fully intend to send my motor to these guys when my two year (Bulls) warranty expires. The price is reasonable, less than tax alone on a new bike, so why not just keep it running?


Pedal strikes cause problems with the motors? That would me a lot of returns in rocky areas.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

stripes said:


> Pedal strikes cause problems with the motors? That would me a lot of returns in rocky areas.


Yes, he explains it in the video. The bearing cages end up cracking and losing their integrity. Little pieces break off, and that's what makes the crunching noise. He installs upgraded larger bearings and cages, as well as several seals to keep water/dust out of the motor. These motors apparently have an excellent track record on commuter bikes, which of course don't see pedal strikes, and don't generally get submerged in creeks, etc.

There appears to be a couple of quick fixes that can be done without removing the motor from the bike to improve water/dust resistance, so I may be contacting them to see if I can buy the seals, and see what sealant they suggest for the circuit board screws.

.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

_CJ said:


> Yes, he explains it in the video. The bearing cages end up cracking and losing their integrity. Little pieces break off, and that's what makes the crunching noise. He installs upgraded larger bearings and cages, as well as several seals to keep water/dust out of the motor. These motors apparently have an excellent track record on commuter bikes, which of course don't see pedal strikes, and don't generally get submerged in creeks, etc.
> 
> There appears to be a couple of quick fixes that can be done without removing the motor from the bike to improve water/dust resistance, so I may be contacting them to see if I can buy the seals, and see what sealant they suggest for the circuit board screws.
> 
> .


Apparently *bearings that are too small* is also one of the reasons we almost never read about a Shimano that is trouble free for over 10,000 kms.
Yamaha being larger and heavier is probably better designed and i do not remember reading about a third or a forth motor being needed.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

_CJ said:


> Yes, he explains it in the video. The bearing cages end up cracking and losing their integrity. Little pieces break off, and that's what makes the crunching noise. He installs upgraded larger bearings and cages, as well as several seals to keep water/dust out of the motor. These motors apparently have an excellent track record on commuter bikes, which of course don't see pedal strikes, and don't generally get submerged in creeks, etc.
> 
> There appears to be a couple of quick fixes that can be done without removing the motor from the bike to improve water/dust resistance, so I may be contacting them to see if I can buy the seals, and see what sealant they suggest for the circuit board screws.
> 
> .


Thanks for summarizing. I really didn't feel like sitting through 26 minutes of the video.


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## RBoardman (Dec 27, 2014)

lotusdriver said:


> That is an option. Here in the U.K. everything is sold out though.
> Hopefully it's better where you are. Like the weather really.
> At the moment it's freezing cold with snow here, no bike ride for me tonight


A high of 70 (21C) and sun every day this week. Some times it gets old and I wish we had seasons, but then I remember I can ride every day of the year living in California and dismiss that idea. Lol


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## Varaxis (Mar 16, 2010)

Some of my pedal strikes are seriously violent. Just a lot of momentum DH when the pedal snags on something and the bike comes to a halt, while my body continues forward. Never really given it thought how much that could damage a bike. Seeing the sprag clutch get overloaded from that... 

The Bafang mid-drive motors are allegedly IP65 (BBSHD) and IP67 (Forestal). Shimano says their E8000 is waterproofed enough to handle riding in the rain, but advises not to submerge it. IP65 isn't proofed against pressurized water jets, but IP67 is (plus limited immersion).

Spec has a lot of claims about motor weight and size. Weight weenie effects on motor durability? Shimano supposedly went from sprag to clicky/rattly roller bearing clutches, which saves weight.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Some make them to look good on paper and the showroom.
Some are designed for _real life_


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