# Pinion Gearbox Frames



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

I am thinking of selling my Salsa El Mariachi Ti with the Rohloff speedhub to start working on my next project; a Pinion-equipped expedition bike.

Who makes Pinion-compatible frames? I really like the El Mariachi geometry and if it was feasible (and it's not) I'd pay to have the frame modified for a Pinion. (Is this possible?)

What do you guys think about the Pinion? I also want to use a belt drive.


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## Emdexpress (Jan 24, 2018)

I was initially opposed to Pinion but came along with the idea to own one until .....I discovered you cannot shift them under load. I charge large grades as fast as possible then shift to easier gears as the grade builds. Deal breaker for me. Both eTap and DI2 XT shifts fell under big loads.


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## formula4speed (Mar 25, 2013)

Carver makes most of their Ti frames available with pinion drives.

Ventana has a couple options. 

Tout Terrain (through Cycle Monkey) has several models, mostly touring oriented but there is a 27.5+ MTB. 

The Viral Skeptic is Ti and built around the pinion drive (I think this is the former owner of Niner). 

The Zerode Taniwah is pinion and FS but I don't believe belt drive compatible.


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## JackP42 (Nov 16, 2007)

Pinion has a pretty extensive list of bike brands that are building bikes/frames using their gearbox.
https://pinion.eu/en/bicycle-manufacturers/
BTW, I have a Zerode Taniwha and have been riding it for the past year.
Yes, you can't really shift to an easier gear while under load, but you can make a shift, or multiple gears very quickly and can immediately go back to full power. Given that you shouldn't really be shifting gears with a derailleur while under load, I don't see this as too much of an issue. It does take some saddle time to get use to the differences in shifting, but as you have experience with the Rohloff, I would think it will come pretty easy for you.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

JackP42 said:


> Pinion has a pretty extensive list of bike brands that are building bikes/frames using their gearbox.
> https://pinion.eu/en/bicycle-manufacturers/
> BTW, I have a Zerode Taniwha and have been riding it for the past year.
> Yes, you can't really shift to an easier gear while under load, but you can make a shift, or multiple gears very quickly and can immediately go back to full power. Given that you shouldn't really be shifting gears with a derailleur while under load, I don't see this as too much of an issue. It does take some saddle time to get use to the differences in shifting, but as you have experience with the Rohloff, I would think it will come pretty easy for you.


It took me about a week to get used to the Rohloff shifting. Since I won't be riding singletrack with this thing being able to shift under load is not a big issue. I had no trouble shifting on the Tour Divide and, in fact, being able to **** to a lower gear while stopped was incredibly useful on some of those long, endless climbs.

My only objection to the Rohloff (and it was a minor one) was that I sensed more drag than with a derailleur setup. I was not prepared for it because most of my training was in gears 1-7 but I ended up in the lower gears a lot more in the race (that have more drag).


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Ailuropoda said:


> My only objection to the Rohloff (and it was a minor one) was that I sensed more drag than with a derailleur setup.


What's The Difference In Speed Between Gearbox Systems? Rohloff, Pinion, Shimano - CyclingAbout


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## phidauex (Apr 17, 2013)

Ailuropoda said:


> Who makes Pinion-compatible frames? I really like the El Mariachi geometry and if it was feasible (and it's not) I'd pay to have the frame modified for a Pinion. (Is this possible?)


In addition to the usual suspects, Moonmen in Fort Collins, CO recently built a Pinion Ti frame that almost had me pull my credit card out as soon as I saw it.

#M42 - Moonmen

I don't have any experience with the Pinion yet, but there is a good chance my next bike will have one. I've been riding an Alfine 8 for the last 10 years, and while it still works great (only on the second overhaul), I keep thinking "what's next?"


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

I would love a 130mm pinion bike with a 140mm fork in the less than 30 pound range.


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## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

I love mine, Pilot Locum Pinion bike, but if I had it to do again I would definitely get a Viral! I have a small seatpost slippage issue and realized buying a bike over seas definitely has a few drawbacks. The gearbox is definitely the coolest, best shifting system I have ever used and Ive owned 2 rohlhoffs, and an alfine, the first rohlhoff I owned was used and already broken in, so the drag was less present, my second one was new and the drag was so noticeable and such a mental barrier I sold it almost immediately. I was worried buying a pinion fearing the same issue, but when I got it from the beginning I noticed absolutely no amount of drag having been using a derailleur system prior for years. The shifting under load issue is a non issue to me as well because I never did that with my regular derailleurs anyways, and i actually see the pinion shifting as a major advantage because you can shift multiple gears in a micro second, I have gotten so good at it, that I can shift on a climb by pausing for a millisecond in my crank rotation. My bike literally doesn't even slow down I've gotten so good at it. Pinion is definitely onto something.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Fattyrider38 said:


> I love mine, Pilot Locum Pinion bike, but if I had it to do again I would definitely get a Viral! I have a small seatpost slippage issue and realized buying a bike over seas definitely has a few drawbacks. The gearbox is definitely the coolest, best shifting system I have ever used and Ive owned 2 rohlhoffs, and an alfine, the first rohlhoff I owned was used and already broken in, so the drag was less present, my second one was new and the drag was so noticeable and such a mental barrier I sold it almost immediately. I was worried buying a pinion fearing the same issue, but when I got it from the beginning I noticed absolutely no amount of drag having been using a derailleur system prior for years. The shifting under load issue is a non issue to me as well because I never did that with my regular derailleurs anyways, and i actually see the pinion shifting as a major advantage because you can shift multiple gears in a micro second, I have gotten so good at it, that I can shift on a climb by pausing for a millisecond in my crank rotation. My bike literally doesn't even slow down I've gotten so good at it. Pinion is definitely onto something.


Pictures or it's all BS!!


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## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Pictures or it's all BS!!


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## Fattyrider38 (Jun 7, 2018)

Mountain Cycle Shawn said:


> Pictures or it's all BS!!


 This was yesterday, just put on some oddity cycles razor bars and a fox transfer dropper, a dynamo hub with K-Lite Bikepacker Plus light, and a Bike Bag Dude top tube bag. I have a frame bag, a handlebar bag, and a seat post bag for my T-Rack rear rack being made at the moment, going backpacking in october on the Arizona trail so Im pretty excited to get it all loaded up and try my hand on some multi day trips with the gearbox


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

That’s nice!


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## Hen-dog (Dec 26, 2020)

Emdexpress said:


> I was initially opposed to Pinion but came along with the idea to own one until .....I discovered you cannot shift them under load. I charge large grades as fast as possible then shift to easier gears as the grade builds. Deal breaker for me. Both eTap and DI2 XT shifts fell under big loads.


I agree with @Fattyrider38, this just isn't true with regards to shifting under load. I urge you to test a Pinion.

There are instances where you do have to ease up but as the shifting is instant, you'll still be in the next gear cranking hard before any cassette based system has finished changing gears.

The gears are grouped and on my 12 speed, there are two gear changes where you can't shift while cranking hard , 9-8 and 5-4. - all the other changes are so instantaneous that it's just not an issue, up or down the box. For the shifts mentioned, you need a split-second to allow the change then carry on. After a few rides you won't even think about it. My box has about 100 miles on it so this may even improve over time.


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## Jukka4130 (Jun 21, 2020)

For those looking for a hardtail Pinion frame suited to aggressive riding - as well as for long weekend rides. Reader Story: The RIG v2 - From Handbuilt Frame to a Limited Batch Production Run.

The V1 version made from steel which started to whole project can be seen on IG account at Jukka4130,


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## Giel (Jan 16, 2011)

Pinion-wise, I don't think it gets much better than this: 11ANTS bikes - Titanium Mountainbikes Handcrafted in Holland


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## henners_ (Oct 15, 2020)

Giel said:


> Pinion-wise, I don't think it gets much better than this: 11ANTS bikes - Titanium Mountainbikes Handcrafted in Holland


I love my pANTher LE


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

Except for most people want a FS bike.


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## henners_ (Oct 15, 2020)

Most people are dicks.


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## Mountain Cycle Shawn (Jan 19, 2004)

henners_ said:


> Most people are dicks.


Only HT riders!


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## Jukka4130 (Jun 21, 2020)

True, but there's something very special in riding a Pinion-equipped hardtail bike with proper geometry. The 11Ants frame looks sweet, but I'd tinker the geometry a bit.

My take on the matter.


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