# How many of you all using Volume Spacers in shock / forks?



## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Got my XXL Fuel EX 8 XT. Love the bike. Great fit, fun to ride. Only thing I am noticing is the rear shock (55mm stroke) feels a little 'mushy' with 15mm sag. Also, the front fork goes thru all it's travel on rides. Don't think I have felt either the front or the back bottom out, but the o-rings are at or pretty damn close to max. So I have ordered the volume spacer kit for the Reakitv shock and three of the green volume spacers for the Rhythm 34 Forks.

At 225 lbs riding weight, I bet a spacer or two will take away the mushy feeling rear and help keep the front riding a ittle higher in it's travel. Thoughts??


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## masonmoa (Jul 11, 2011)

Yes. I have either 2-3 spacers in all my forks and shocks. Almost mandatory if you're of a certain size.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

I’m 260lbs and have 2 in my 2019 X2. 

I did not like how the sag sat with 3 and 4 in side. 

I am running max pressure in it though. Actually 310psi so over max. 

In my 36 I have the one that came from the factory. And I run 99psi. 


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

If you've never felt the shock or fork bottom out then you probably won't benefit from spacers. If it feels like it's moving through the travel too quickly (diving) then more compression or pressure would be your best bet.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

jeremy3220 said:


> If you've never felt the shock or fork bottom out then you probably won't benefit from spacers. If it feels like it's moving through the travel too quickly (diving) then more compression or pressure would be your best bet.


This. Keep in mind, using full travel during your rides is the goal, as long as you aren't feeling a hard bottoming.

If anything, you would remove spacers and up your pressure to keep the same sag. Spacers are used to control the ramp up of the spring at the end of the stroke, not the beginning or middle. You might also try upping your pressures a bit and running just a little less sag. Fox forks seem to work well at about 15% sag.

Finally, at 225 pounds you are at the outer edge of standard tunes, if the above doesn't help, consider sending your shock to someone like avalanche and having it revalved.


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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Thanks. I just spoke to Fox on the phone. They actually recommend setting the sag for the fork at 28mm (20% sag) and adding two spacers; however, several on this forum have now said 15% sag (21mm - which is exactly what Trek recommends) is better. Hmmmmm. For the Reaktiv, he advised the 'mushy' feeling is just the Reaktiv shock, but to keep the 16mm travel and try a yellow spacer. Thoughts??


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## jeremy3220 (Jul 5, 2017)

Set the pressure to whatever feels best and alter bottom out resistance as necessary with spacers. To be honest I think a lot of riders get too caught up trying to 'figure out' their setup when usually they just need to test more.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

MaxMyNameisMax said:


> Thanks. I just spoke to Fox on the phone. They actually recommend setting the sag for the fork at 28mm (20% sag) and adding two spacers; however, several on this forum have now said 15% sag (21mm - which is exactly what Trek recommends) is better. Hmmmmm. For the Reaktiv, he advised the 'mushy' feeling is just the Reaktiv shock, but to keep the 16mm travel and try a yellow spacer. Thoughts??


Yep, the Fox person has no idea what he/she is talking about. Unfortunately, Fox has about the least useful customer support and service in the industry.

Again, spacers are to control bottom out, not midstroke support. Weight has very little to do with the spacers needed, riding style and aggressiveness do, if you hit big jumps, you will need more spacers than someone who keeps their wheels planted on the ground. Adding spacers will, if anything, require you lower your pressure and soften the midstroke support. From what you are saying, you wish to get more midstroke support. Again, keep in mind, *the recommended sag points are starting points, not an absolute rule.* There are many who run their bikes with 25% rear sag instead of 30% and other who prefer 35% over 30%. Up your pressures a bit and go ride it and sew how it feels. (you may need to add a click of rebound to compensate for higher pressure).


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

I happened to have Rockshox tuning guide up on this machine. Here's what they say about the topic.

"Bottomless Tokens and Rings reduce air spring volume and increase bottom out resistance. Reduced volume, with the correct sag set, increases mid to ending stroke spring ramp without significantly affecting sag and small to medium bump sensitivity. Increased spring ramp at bottom out can be beneficial on larger drops or fast bumpy trails where the fork uses most of its travel."


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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Thanks guys!! I went out and adjusted pressure up some on both the fork and the shock. Have fork right around 15% sag (20mm) and rear shock at about 25% sag. Hopefully increasing the pressure on the rear shock will stiffen up mid travel some. If I don't get full travel on Fork I will lower pressure a little. If I don't get close to full travel on shock and it still feel's mushy, I will look into a more progressive shock. The fox rep did say the feeling I am describing is typical for the Reaktiv shock.


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

What setting are you running the shock in? I find the middle / trail setting to work for most of my applications at my riding weight of around 210 lbs without it feeling mushy in anyway. It did take some time for both my shock and fork to break in. I felt like I was chasing my tail for a bit trying to get them dialed before they were broken in. This was on my 2020 EX.


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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

I have been running OPEN. This is due to a lot of square edge impacts with roots on local trails.


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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Tommy E said:


> What setting are you running the shock in? I find the middle / trail setting to work for most of my applications at my riding weight of around 210 lbs without it feeling mushy in anyway. It did take some time for both my shock and fork to break in. I felt like I was chasing my tail for a bit trying to get them dialed before they were broken in. This was on my 2020 EX.


Thanks. I will try 'middle' setting. Just out of curiosity, what pressure r u running at 210lbs. As of now I have them set at 100psig front and 240 psig rear (95 and 235 actual once pump removed)


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

The reaktiv portion of the shock really only works in the trail / middle setting. It opens for large hits but otherwise provides a very stable pedal platform. After much playing around with it, I run mine exactly at 208 psi.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

MaxMyNameisMax said:


> Thanks guys!! I went out and adjusted pressure up some on both the fork and the shock. Have fork right around 15% sag (20mm) and rear shock at about 25% sag. Hopefully increasing the pressure on the rear shock will stiffen up mid travel some. If I don't get full travel on Fork I will lower pressure a little. If I don't get close to full travel on shock and it still feel's mushy, I will look into a more progressive shock. The fox rep did say the feeling I am describing is typical for the Reaktiv shock.





MaxMyNameisMax said:


> I have been running OPEN. This is due to a lot of square edge impacts with roots on local trails.


If you are not getting full travel on the shock, you don't want the air spring more progressive, you want it less so.

It sounds like what you want is more low speed dampening to control the movement you feel in the shock. There is always a tradeoff between low speed dampening and high speed square edged performance. With Fox shocks they tend to run a pretty firm preload on the main shim stack stack so when you run the low speed compression closed pedaling movement is limited. This causes harshness on high speed impacts. This can be improved on by having Avalanche tune the shock, as they convert the low speed needle to a poppet valve and rely on transitioning to the main piston stack at lower shaft speeds, so square edged performance is better. Even with this, there is still an unavoidable compromise between plushness and support, but it is better than the stock Fox internals.



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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Tommy E said:


> The reaktiv portion of the shock really only works in the trail / middle setting. It opens for large hits but otherwise provides a very stable pedal platform. After much playing around with it, I run mine exactly at 208 psi.


Thanks. I will try it in the middle setting. So with middle the shock should ride higher up in it's travel and be more progressive in travel? Thanks!


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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Cary said:


> If you are not getting full travel on the shock, you don't want the air spring more progressive, you want it less so.
> 
> It sounds like what you want is more low speed dampening to control the movement you feel in the shock. There is always a tradeoff between low speed dampening and high speed square edged performance. With Fox shocks they tend to run a pretty firm preload on the main shim stack stack so when you run the low speed compression closed pedaling movement is limited. This causes harshness on high speed impacts. This can be improved on by having Avalanche tune the shock, as they convert the low speed needle to a poppet valve and rely on transitioning to the main piston stack at lower shaft speeds, so square edged performance is better. Even with this, there is still an unavoidable compromise between plushness and support, but it is better than the stock Fox internals.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the information. I have no desire to do custom tune. I've done it before and have never been happy. I have learned after many years if it's good for 99% of the people it will most likely be good for me.


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

MaxMyNameisMax said:


> Thanks. I will try it in the middle setting. So with middle the shock should ride higher up in it's travel and be more progressive in travel? Thanks!


That's what I experienced with it. It just felt too wallowy and unsupported when set in the open mode. I experimented with higher pressures in the open mode and got it feeling decent but it never performed quite like I wanted. I ultimately found what I was looking for in the trail setting.


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## MaxMyNameisMax (Feb 8, 2017)

Tommy E said:


> That's what I experienced with it. It just felt too wallowy and unsupported when set in the open mode. I experimented with higher pressures in the open mode and got it feeling decent but it never performed quite like I wanted. I ultimately found what I was looking for in the trail setting.


Thanks. Once u switched to Trails did u lower pressure any / more sag or keep pressure / sag about same as open. I know u set sag etc in open mode. Thanks.


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## Tommy E (Oct 30, 2019)

MaxMyNameisMax said:


> Thanks. Once u switched to Trails did u lower pressure any / more sag or keep pressure / sag about same as open. I know u set sag etc in open mode. Thanks.


I ended up lowering my pressure more in line to what the trek suspension calculator called for which is around 1psi per pound of weight. I cant remember my previous sag setting but it's at 15mm now and I went a click or two faster on the rebound than the base recommendation for my weight.


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