# Any "tricks" for seating tubeless tires?



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Uh... Yeah.... I know it's possible to seat a tubeless tire using a floor pump instead of a compressor. Does this work with some tires better than others? Any tricks you use to almost guarantee a good seat for the bead?


----------



## eltazar (Nov 1, 2006)

For me, floor pump worked on Michelin DH tires (UST) on Mavic UST rims. For anything else - it sometimes works, especially 'second time', when the tire was seated for a while, and you just add sealant or whatever. Otherwise - gas station air compressor, only way to be sure


----------



## jeffgre_6163 (Jan 23, 2010)

I assume you are using tubeless compatible or UST rims?
If not, ghetto tubeless can be difficult to seat and I have found you really need a compressor depending on what method of ghetto tubeless you have gone with.

My advice would be if you only have a floor pump put a tube in and inflate to 50 or so PSI and leave the tire to sit over night.
Next day carefully pull one side of the tire off, pull out the tube and have another crack at it.
Doing this forces the tire to the correct shape and can really help seat it

A couple more tips [this may be obvious]
Donot try to inflate with the tire and wheel resting on the ground.
Hang the wheel by the rim so the tire is off the ground.
Same applies if you try the "Pre tuded" method, I.E. do not put the tire on the ground to remove the tire to get the tube out, pull the tire off the rim with the wheel hanging.
When you sit the rim and wheel on the ground it will deform the tire making inflation more difficult

Oh yeah...
and use heaps of soapy water on the bead


----------



## KAZU (Aug 10, 2011)

Ether and a match. 

or 

just get a compressor they are like 50 bucks and you can use them for more then just airing up tires.


----------



## Bailey44 (Dec 30, 2010)

Lots of soap and water. If that doesn't work, put a motorcycle strap around the tire and snug it up before inflation.

Specialized 2-bliss tires are the easiest to set up and seem to work on any rim. A floor pump and a few quick pumps and they are done. The Captain Controls are great in North Texas for our trails.

The rest is stated abouve...IE...hang the wheel, let it set overnight with a tube...etc...


----------



## stumblemumble (Mar 31, 2006)

Seat the beads with a tube, pop one bead and remove tube. Then attach floor pump and press the wheel with the set-bead side against a large truck tire on a vehicle with one hand, pump with the other.

The 31 inch tires on my Tacoma press evenly against the tire of a 26 inch rim, uniformly pushing the un-set bead against the rim.

Works a charm.


----------



## Bailey44 (Dec 30, 2010)

stumblemumble said:


> Seat the beads with a tube, pop one bead and remove tube. Then attach floor pump and press the wheel with the set-bead side against a large truck tire on a vehicle with one hand, pump with the other.
> 
> The 31 inch tires on my Tacoma press evenly against the tire of a 26 inch rim, uniformly pushing the un-set bead against the rim.
> 
> Works a charm.


Crap, now I have to go buy a truck. Oh well, I knid of like them anyway.


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

Bailey44 said:


> Specialized 2-bliss tires are the easiest to set up and seem to work on any rim. A floor pump and a few quick pumps and they are done. The Captain Controls are great in North Texas for our trails.


That's the one I'm trying to set up... The Specialized Fast Trak on split-tube tubeless. I'll try again on that one. It has a tube in it right now, but I still like tubeless better.

And I'm just a poor college student living on campus. There are compressors all over campus for free air, but I've already looked at them and they don't seem to supply much pressure. It feels like I'm even getting higher pressure with my floor pump.

I'll have to admit that I haven't been using soapy water. That worked last time I seated a tire, but that was also with a compressor. Whatever. My roommates already think I'm weird enough with my bikes.


----------



## Timon (May 11, 2008)

go to the local gas station, put 75 cents in the machine, and pop that bead on there.
if you can unscrew the presta insert thing (like they have on the stans tubeless liners) it'll give it more airflow....and then cover the hole up with your thumb and make a quick transfer to get that little nozzle back in there without losing all the pressure.

i can't get mine to seat without a compressor....any air i put in immediately leaks right out and it's not even close to inflating.


----------



## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I use the Stans method. 

1. Put the tire on the rim
2. Pat/smack the tire around so that the bead of the tire is sitting close to the lip of the rim. Pay special attention to the area around the valve stem.
3. Apply a liberal amount of REALLY soapy water to both sides of the tire and try to get the solution down onto the bead.
4. Hit the tire with a few quick pumps. If it doesn't seat, you should be able to see some big bubbles where the tire bead is too far from the rim. 
5. Push/pull the tire closer to that area and hit with another couple quick pumps.
6. Keep inflating up to 40 psi, then deflate.
7. Pop a portion of the bead off and dump a cup of Stans in (if you want puncture protection).
8. Inflate to 45psi and do the "shake and roll" so that any irregular spots in the bead are sealed.
9. If a UST tire/rim, go RIDE. If not, do the shake and roll until no bubbles appear.


----------



## Life_livin (Jun 16, 2011)

I wrapped the inside of the rim with foam insulation tape, super hard to get the tire on but I can seat it with a frame pump


----------



## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

Have you tried pulling it's chair out for it? Sometimes these things are all about manners. It may think you should be the one to pull its chair out before it is seated properly; don't forget to push it in too.


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

monzie said:


> Have you tried pulling it's chair out for it? Sometimes these things are all about manners. It may think you should be the one to pull its chair out before it is seated properly; don't forget to push it in too.


I'm talking about getting the rubber on, not getting closer to "getting the rubber on." Jeez. Learn to read.


----------



## Anonymous (Mar 3, 2005)

same as anal sex. lube


----------



## paulrb02 (Aug 3, 2009)

I got a CO2 pump. Cheap and it works well.


----------



## Vespasianus (Apr 9, 2008)

This works for me:

How to install a tube tire on a tubeless wheel with sealant and a floor pump - YouTube


----------



## Mojo Troll (Jun 3, 2004)

Buy a cheep $50 portable 2 gallon air compressor. Then you can keep the riding lawn mower, wheelbarrow, blow up doll, spare tire on your vehicle properly inflated as well.

They also work great for blowing the leaves out of your rock garden flower bed. I don't need no stinkin leaf blower.

Does this mean I'm *******?


----------



## Bro (Dec 20, 2010)

paulrb02 said:


> I got a CO2 pump. Cheap and it works well.


I've tried a CO2 cartridge. That was just a waste of $3, it didn't work. I'll try again in the morning with a new tube, I've been trying to re-use the old tubes. I've heard that can be done, but I'd assume a fresh tube would be better.


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

yall are forgetting a couple tricks.

1. Remove valve core.
2. Extra layer of stans rim tape
3. have a friend smack the tire from both sides while you vigorously pump it up. 

Never give up. Never surrender.

Or find a gas station with free air. Or go to your LBS and bum their compressor. 

Or get your mom to blow it. Shes good at that.


----------



## Lindahl (Aug 9, 2011)

Maybe I got lucky, or maybe this is pretty normal, and I'm not sure if it'll help, but here goes:

I burped a tire right off the bead on a ride, miles from nowhere. I was able to pull the tire bead halfway back into the rim and was able to reseat the bead with my Lezyne minipump. I was surprised, after hearing all the talk about compressors, CO2 and floor pumps.

I have Eskar 2Bliss tires and Mavic UST rims right now.


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

erik1245 said:


> I've tried a CO2 cartridge. That was just a waste of $3, it didn't work. I'll try again in the morning with a new tube, I've been trying to re-use the old tubes. I've heard that can be done, but I'd assume a fresh tube would be better.


Use the inner tube without splitting it. Works great.


----------



## monzie (Aug 5, 2009)

erik1245 said:


> I'm talking about getting the rubber on, not getting closer to "getting the rubber on." Jeez. Learn to read.


Have you tried rolling it? That usually does it for me.



Sheepo5669 said:


> A bunch of **** no one cares to read.....
> 
> Or get your mom to blow it. Shes good at that.


I've heard this from multiple people who enlist her help. Does his mom really do that good a job?


----------



## Sheepo5669 (May 14, 2010)

Monzie, you are a dick. But a funny dick. So it's okay.


----------



## allroy71 (Sep 28, 2007)

Love finding old threads with good info! Helped me out today. Removed the valve core and finally got my bead to seat!! Thanks Sheepo!


----------



## Kshawn (Jul 22, 2012)




----------



## 4SEVEN3 (Aug 12, 2007)

Guess his mom still blows good after all these years!


----------



## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

The coolest way is to put some propane or map gas in it and then ignite. Yes, it works


----------



## cohenfive (Jan 12, 2004)

I am having a real problem getting my tire to seat after putting stans in. I guess I'm not the only one that has this issue. Sounds like the only solution is to get a compressor so you can jam enough air in there fast enough to force the bead to seat? 

This is my first experience with tubeless and stans and quite frankly it does not seem worth the effort to me. I'm a putz clearly.


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

cohenfive said:


> I am having a real problem getting my tire to seat after putting stans in. I guess I'm not the only one that has this issue. Sounds like the only solution is to get a compressor so you can jam enough air in there fast enough to force the bead to seat?
> 
> This is my first experience with tubeless and stans and quite frankly it does not seem worth the effort to me. I'm a putz clearly.


Are you using tubeless tires on tubeless rims?


----------



## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

There is a learning curve. Many people F it up the first couple tries. It took me a few tries to get it right. I had to improvise because I have no space for a compressor.

Before adding the Stan's goo you want to seat the bead of the tire with some soapy water. The soap mixture adds a little lubricant and increases sealing. Dish soap mixed about 50/50 works well. Remove the valve core and use a CO2 inflator. Remove the inflator and quickly insert the core. Pump back up with floor pump to tire's max pressure and make sure the beads are seated. Spinning the wheel should result in an even tread.

Next, remove the core and deflate. Pour the goo in through the valve. Inflate using the floor pump up to max pressure. Remove pump and quickly install core. Pump back up to max pressure.

Do the Stans shake.

I also deflate far enough to manually burp the side-walls all the way around both sides of the tires. Re-inflate, wait an hour and go riding.

This method has always worked for me. I have Bonty Mustang TLR rims with Bonty asym rim strip. Tires are IRC Fire XC Pro.

I generally lose almost no air over the course of months.


----------



## rangeriderdave (Aug 29, 2008)

Some times it helps if you are useing a new tire to put tube in first and inflate it ,that makes the tire conform to the rim better.


----------



## cohenfive (Jan 12, 2004)

My tires and wheelset are tubeless, have been running fine for the past six months but are now leaking. I bought a little air compressor and it didn't get the job done (so it is going back to the store), and now my bike has two flat tires that I cannot fix. The bike is going to the shop, I will have them seat the tires and install stans. In six months when the tires are worn out I think I may just go back to tubes. I don't understand why there can't be a tubeless method that allows you to just seat the tires and pump them up....this is ridiculous imo.

End of rant, frustrating to have spent a morning trying to get my tires resealed with stans so I can ride and now I have two flat tires and a bike that has to go to the lbs. They have to do better than this, even for a putz like me.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

If you don't have an adequately sized compressor an air tank liked used to inflate auto tires can be useful. The increased volume of air is usually all that is needed.


----------



## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

cohenfive said:


> My tires and wheelset are tubeless, have been running fine for the past six months but are now leaking. I bought a little air compressor and it didn't get the job done (so it is going back to the store), and now my bike has two flat tires that I cannot fix. The bike is going to the shop, I will have them seat the tires and install stans. In six months when the tires are worn out I think I may just go back to tubes. I don't understand why there can't be a tubeless method that allows you to just seat the tires and pump them up....this is ridiculous imo.
> 
> End of rant, frustrating to have spent a morning trying to get my tires resealed with stans so I can ride and now I have two flat tires and a bike that has to go to the lbs. They have to do better than this, even for a putz like me.


Hey putz, did you read my post(#30)?


----------



## cohenfive (Jan 12, 2004)

I thought that might be part of the issue as I bought the $50 compressor which doesn't pump out a lot of air. Doesn't change the core issue however...at least imo.


----------



## cohenfive (Jan 12, 2004)

likeaboss said:


> Hey putz, did you read my post(#30)?


Yes I did. Spent the morning shaking, buying a compressor and getting laughed at by my lbs...and still I have two flat tires now and have to go back to the hardware store to return the compressor.

I know I'm a putz but this shouldn't be this tricky...


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

cohenfive said:


> I thought that might be part of the issue as I bought the $50 compressor which doesn't pump out a lot of air. Doesn't change the core issue however...at least imo.


Uhmmmmm, the core issue is air volume. Have you tried installing an auto tubeless tire without the aid of an adequate air supply? Its the same process and I would expect the same results.


----------



## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

cohenfive said:


> Yes I did. Spent the morning shaking, buying a compressor and getting laughed at by my lbs...and still I have two flat tires now and have to go back to the hardware store to return the compressor.
> 
> I know I'm a putz but this shouldn't be this tricky...


The point was that you do not need a compressor. Just some CO2.

And you do not shake until the beads are properly seated and the tire is basically holding air.


----------



## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

cohenfive said:


> I am having a real problem getting my tire to seat after putting stans in. I guess I'm not the only one that has this issue. Sounds like the only solution is to get a compressor so you can jam enough air in there fast enough to force the bead to seat?
> 
> This is my first experience with tubeless and stans and quite frankly it does not seem worth the effort to me. I'm a putz clearly.


Having an inexpensive compressor makes it easy. You could also run down to your corner gas station and use their hose (some stations have better ones than others....). Just make sure to bring along the little Scrader to Presta adapter...


----------



## cohenfive (Jan 12, 2004)

I bought a $50 compressor from our local hardware store. I was still unable to seat the tires so I returned it. I guess every time I have to seat tires means a trip to the gas station which makes no sense to me. Also, with the adapter, how do you keep from pulling the core off when you use it? That happened to me a couple of times as well.


----------



## Montana Rider (Aug 21, 2005)

I'm a bit of a luddite/late adopter (and don't generally get more than a flat a season, knock on wood) but my new rig has tubeless rims, so thinking about trying tubeless... anyways I thought this link was interesting the last time I was poking around on the intertubes:

Tech Tuesday - Make a Ghetto Tubeless Tire Inflator - Pinkbike


----------



## likeaboss (Jan 1, 2012)

What is the fixation with compressors? YOU DO NOT NEED THEM. I can't say it any louder than that.


----------



## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

likeaboss said:


> What is the fixation with compressors? YOU DO NOT NEED THEM. I can't say it any louder than that.


I used to borrow a buddies compressor, then I picked up a Joe Blow Mountain pump. Pushes serious air and had no problem seating my most recent set of tubeless tires.

If your center channel is too deep, fill it with weather stripping and run some gorilla tape over the top. If you can spin the tire around the rim your tire fit is too loose and you should put another layer of gorilla tape over the rim.

Soapy water works well but for my first few tubeless conversions I just ran a line of mold builder along the beads, sealed up instantly and provided good lube for the beads to slide on when popping into place. You can use Stans or whatever your preferred sealant is. A little messier of a solution but worked well.


----------



## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

cohenfive said:


> I thought that might be part of the issue as I bought the $50 compressor which doesn't pump out a lot of air. Doesn't change the core issue however...at least imo.


Specifically, which rims and tires are you using?


----------



## ducimus (Nov 8, 2014)

Mounted my first tubeless tires an hour ago. Maxxis Ardent tires on WTB TCS rims. It was a little difficult. The bead was pretty far away from the lip of the rim at points so it was difficult to pop. Griping the tire and pulling it closer to the side of the rims helped. I would not have been able to do it without a compressor. Lots of sealant came out at first but eventually sealed up.


----------



## Argis (Feb 6, 2015)

Thanks all. I cleaned everything - not sure if that helped. 
Used soap
patted tire all around
removed inner valve
used compressor and air gun with rubber end
This worked


----------



## Jesterrider (Feb 22, 2004)

I threw a tube in a tough to seat tubeless rim/non tubeless tire fat bike combo. Once the tire seated with a tube, I took 1 side of the tire off the rim, removed the tube, replaced the valve stem and used an air compressor and it worked like a charm!


----------



## KevinGT (Dec 25, 2012)

Dead.

Revived.

Dead again.

Revived again!

This thread is like the Terminator.


----------



## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

2.35 Hans Damp front 29er tire and 2.35 Nobby Nic rear tires, no go with a pump and soapy water. What worked was the local gas station with free air. Put the tire on dry, no soapy water, added my Orange seal and after a few attempts, BANG, BANG, the bead found their seats.

Tip though, get yourself a presta to schrader valve converter. You can get them at your LBS or amazon http://www.amazon.com/InnoLife-Aluminum-SCHRADER-Converter-Compressor/dp/B00VVSVJD2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1464146816&sr=8-2&keywords=schrader+valve+tool+for+presta+valve this way the hose from the gas station will fit right on to your valve no problem.

I never have success with a floor pump.


----------



## Rev. 14 (Jan 22, 2012)

KevinGT said:


> Revived again!
> 
> This thread is like the Terminator.


Yup, almost a year later.


----------



## Fatty29plus (Jun 15, 2016)

Try This, It works great for me. 
1) Do the usual Gorilla Taping of interior rim. 
2) I then paint over the Gorilla Tape and rim sidewall with Rubber Cement or one 
could use Liquid Rubber or similar rubber paint. With Rubber Cement you need to 
powder the inside of rim with talcum powder cause it drys tacky. 
3) Mount both tire and tube onto rim, inflate and center rim. 
4) Place wheel horizontal on 5 gallon bucket.
5) Release enough air so that tire bead is easily pushed away and down from rim.
6) Here's the Good part! With a caulking gun, Run a continuous 1/8-1/4" bead of Seal 
and Peel Temporary Caulking Compound into bead groove on tire. One side only!
7) Inflate tire to full inflation. Use a blade or caulk removal tool to scrape away excess 
caulking compound.
8) Wait 20-30 minutes. Flip wheel over so Caulking side is down. Deflate tire.
9) Without disturbing bead that is "glued" remove tube from wheel.
10) Insert Tubeless Stem using Seal and Peel Compound to help seal stem. 
11) Reinsert tire bead into rim. Make sure it is centered.
12) Run a similar 1/8-1/4" continuous bead of Seal and Peel around tire bead groove.
13) Flip wheel over on bucket to let gravity help stick bead to rim.
14) Inflate with floor pump or compressor. (I have been able to ride on my wheels
even without tire sealant.)
15) Wait 20-30 min. I don't wait that long. Deflate tire. 
16) If you have not removed valve core, do so now. 
17) Inject your desired amount of sealant. Re-inflate and marvel at how much sealant 
is not leaking out of your tire and rim.
18) Re-insert valve core. 

I have been doing this on 29+ wheels and believe it will also be a great method for Fat Tires. Been on several bone shaking rides with roots and rocks everywhere and have yet to even get a slight burp, The tire beads are literally stuck to the rim. I have removed tires with this set up and the Seal and Peel is easily removed. Not so sure about its long term use with regards to removal. Good Luck!


----------



## Darth Pinche (Feb 19, 2013)

I just went tubeless on my Diamondback release. I did a write up on the Release thread, but the trick I did to seat the tires was a CO2 inflator, then a floor pump to seat the bead with a "snap!" After it was seated, then I added the sealant with an injector.


----------



## mtnbiker64 (Nov 17, 2004)

Don't mean to sound demeaning but just hang the wheel with the tire mounted and inflate the tire using a floor pump, the tire will seat exactly where it should be. You don't want the tire resting on the floor where it could deform the slightest. This will cause the bead to not seat properly. Then when you hear the bead pop, you can then deflate slightly, unscrew the valve core and pour in the sealant thru the valve. Once in, screw the valve core back in, and air up the tire again. Works every time for me. No issues. You may see some sealant bubble out by the valve stem. Just tighten the nut slightly until it stops.


----------



## mrchristian (Apr 2, 2006)

Foolproof way - never had this fail:

1. Get a Harbor Freight compressor (any type will work as long as it's a few gallons though, maybe not the tiny 12V ones you use to fill your car tires or sports equipment) - I have the cheap 3 gallon pancake and it works fine but bigger is better with compressors if you have the cash/room. The more air volume you can blast through the tire in one go the better. The more expensive compressors have quieter oil-lubricated motors which are nice. Cost is $40 to $$$.

2. Get the 20 piece accessory kit - includes a spray trigger gun, hose and thin copper nozzle for the spray gun. Use those. $10

3. Install the Stans tubeless stem and remove the screw in presta core. Add a bunch of sealant of your choice to the tire - sometimes it helps to coat the bead a little bid with the sealant. I've used a couple types but Stans always works and is cheaper than all the fancy boutique orange-colored glitter stuff. 

4. Plug in hose and spray attachment, nozzle, etc so you can push a button and get air blasts. Run compressor until it reaches 100psi. Shoot air directly into the Stans stem and you should inflate the tire and lock the bead in on at least one side. Might need to keep your thumb on the stem to keep the air in and quickly screw the presta core or the tire will fall out of the bead. 

Alternatively if you want to cheap out you can use the tube method which works to get one side locked. Carefully remove the tube from one side and try and mount the other side with a hand pump. Honestly, without an air compressor I'd probably give up half the time. It can be done but isn't worth it unless you are really patient and really cheap. Continental tires seem to be the worst offenders when trying to get them mounted - even the tubeless ready ones. If you need to reseat the tire you have to use a tube again half the time which gets covered in sealant and makes a mess. 

Basically - just get a compressor and you will be very happy.


----------



## xmessenger (Aug 13, 2010)

cohenfive said:


> I thought that might be part of the issue as I bought the $50 compressor which doesn't pump out a lot of air. Doesn't change the core issue however...at least imo.


Lol, maybe I am old school and didn't grow up with tubeless to really buy into this but IMO this is a massive marketing ploy. Are there improvements? Sure. Are they really that noticeable? If you are a DH rider or pinch tubes often but frankly this is such a ridiculous system coming from tubes.
First there are , what 3 different kinds of rims? Non tubeless, tubeless compatible and finally UST.
Then there are tires,same deal.
Then there are the myraid of "kits" that may or may not actually be compatible with your specific rim, even if it is tubeless compatible because something as simple as a freaking valve could have the wrong seal dish.
Then there is actually doing the install assuming you have the correct rim, tire and tubeless kit and still there is no guarantee that you cannot use a floorpump but require a freaking truck tire ,gas station, soapy water and help from Jesus and you might get what would be simple as F with a tube.
So forgive me if I don't buy into this hype because I rather take the 2 minutes to fix a flat than go through this hell.
Installing a tire should not take an entire day ,involve dropping $50 on a compressor or having to go to a gas station or worse a shop...to install a tire...on a bike!


----------



## SARASR (Jan 2, 2017)

I use a CO2 cartridge, gives you a quick blast and seats the tire enough, on my 29er its not enough to completely fill the tire but enough that I can finish the job with any pump.


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

xmessenger said:


> Lol, maybe I am old school and didn't grow up with tubeless to really buy into this but IMO this is a massive marketing ploy. Are there improvements? Sure. Are they really that noticeable? If you are a DH rider or pinch tubes often but frankly this is such a ridiculous system coming from tubes.


yep, totally ridiculous. Now it takes me 5 minutes to install a tire instead of 2 or 3 like it did with tubes, it might even take longer next time because I don't get regular practice at changing tires like I used to pre-tubeless. Just another bike industry conspiracy I tell ya, an absolute living hell!


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

xmessenger said:


> If you are a DH rider or pinch tubes often but frankly this is such a ridiculous system coming from tubes.


Yeah, it's so ridiculous being able to ride through the desert, picking up cactus spines in my tires that don't cause flats and I can just keep riding without changing multiple tubes on my ride. It's ridiculous that a stick 1/2" in diameter can puncture my tire casing, and I can just pull it out, spin the tire, top off the air a little, and continue riding. It's so inconvenient that I haven't had to fix a flat on the trail in over a decade. The only time I'm removing tires from my rim is to swap tires for different conditions (usually about twice a year for me).

My spare tubes are more likely to dry rot in my pack than they are to get installed and ridden on. I've saved enough in spare tubes over the time I've been tubeless to pay for the small compressor I use. And that doesn't include the other things it gets used for like inflating car tires (almost impossible to find free air compressor use at a gas station anymore).


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

xmessenger said:


> Installing a tire should not take an entire day...to install a tire...on a bike!


You, or anyone else that takes a day to install a tubeless tire should consider another form of entertainment.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Just for a little contrast...*

http://forums.mtbr.com/general-discussion/first-tubeless-install-too-easy-1031794.html


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Bush option: No compressor needed. Mount tire and use a syringe to squirt 1 ml of gasoline into the tire. Lay horizontal. You can swish it around to make sure it's mostly evaporated. Light match and toss on tire. Tire will swell and seat. Match is usually blown off but it won't do any harm if you leave it there for a few seconds.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Bush Option? 

I guess you carry flammable fluids in your CamelBak just in case you have a need to incorporate this insane mounting technique?


----------



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

I put a tube in a new tire to help shape it. Pump it up to 30-35 psi. Maybe leave it there in the sun or by a heater for a little bitto get warm. 
When I remove the tube, only break one bead. 
Inject the sealant of choice and inflate. Most tires will pop up with a floor pump when one side bead is set. 
If not, remove core and use a compressor or air tank. With both beads set, just install the core and inflate to desired PSI.
I've done this on 3.0 tires, using regular tubes, on hookless carbon rims

why not just leave the tube in? Because cactus. And sealant inside tubes is stupid and more work than tubeless.


----------



## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Cleared2land said:


> Bush Option?
> 
> I guess you carry flammable fluids in your CamelBak just in case you have a need to incorporate this insane mounting technique?


Carrying gasoline and a lighter into the woods - what could possibly go wrong?


----------



## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

noapathy said:


> Carrying gasoline and a lighter into the woods - what could possibly go wrong?


Texan method for seating tubeless


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Bubba's Tubeless Tire Service in a bottle.


----------



## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

Cleared2land said:


> Bubba's Tubeless Tire Service in a bottle.


I can't help think this may involve shrimp.


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I've done it a couple times just to see. It worked. I think the final pressure is controlled by the amount of oxygen in the uninflated tire so that the danger of the tire blowing off is pretty small.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It's not the risk of the tire blowing off that I find concerning.


----------



## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

^^^This.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Tubeless Tires and Flammable Fluids Magic...*

Consider the combustion reaction C3H8(g) + 5O2(g) = 3CO2(g) + 4H2O(v) where air is used as the oxidant. To find the maximum possible flame propagation, thus assuring the mechanic of appropriate tire seating. Deficiencies in available Oxygen can result in the tire failing to achieve a favorable bead to rim contact point. To validate, assume Q = 0. We will feed the fuel and air into the combustion unit (bicycle tire) at a temperature To. Now, regardless of the actual pathway or mechanism for the combustion process, we can evaluate the process along a path of our own choosing. Remember that all we need to do is find the DH between the initial and final state for any path since the value will be the same for all path between those two end points. We will choose the path of combusting the fuel at To and then heating all of the products up to the final temperature, T. This is diagrammed in the figure below to demonstrate the possibility of proper beading of the tire to the rim.









In this figure, the actual path between the inlet and outlet conditions might be represented by the hypotenuse of this triangle. We, instead, will use the two-step pathway to get from the inlet to outlet conditions. The horizontal arrow represents the reaction at constant temperature, and the vertical arrow represents the change in temperature from To to T with no reaction.

The energy balance for this adiabatic process in seating your tubeless tire will result in possible catastrophe should this equation not be followed EXACTLY in accordance to the tire and rim specifications.

0 = Hout - Hin = xDHr(To) + DHsensible


----------



## wideawakejake (Jan 18, 2015)

I just take the wheel and sit it in the tire . I hold the wheel and pinch the tire at opposite sides seating the bead one side at a time, working my way around the wheel. I hold the wheel as i do this. before i completley seat the bead, i pour 2oz of stans in the tire, turn the wheel so the sealant does not leak out, and than finish seating the last of the tire bead. Takes a little muscle. Lean tire against something. attach floor pump and pump away. Always super easy with Specialized, schwalbe and maxxis tires. I can never understand why people think it is so hard. i never find tire levers nessasary either. just a little muscle and force.


----------



## leeboh (Aug 5, 2011)

Schulze said:


> Bush option: No compressor needed. Mount tire and use a syringe to squirt 1 ml of gasoline into the tire. Lay horizontal. You can swish it around to make sure it's mostly evaporated. Light match and toss on tire. Tire will swell and seat. Match is usually blown off but it won't do any harm if you leave it there for a few seconds.


 So you put the gas inside of the tire. Then you put the match on the outside of the tire? How does the gas get lit? What am I missing here? Close vids needed please.


----------



## ericridebike (Nov 23, 2016)

So I made the switch to tubeless today finally. I have a '16 Trek Fuel EX-8 29er with the stock Bontrager Duster Elite TLR wheels and Bontrager XR3 expert 29x2.30 tires. I bought the bike new about a month ago and it had tubes installed. Today I picked up a pair of Stan's tubeless valve stems and Stan's sealant and figured I would give it a try myself. I was pleasantly surprised how easy it ended up being and so glad I did it myself instead of paying the LBS to do it. 

Here's how I did it. I deflated the tube, then broke the bead on one side only to remove the tube. Next I installed the new valve stem(rims already came taped and ready otherwise). I hung the wheel from my bike stand and poured ~4oz of Stan's sealant into the tire directly. I then sprayed some soapy water around the rim and reseated the tire on the rim by hand. I attached my regular floor pump and was able to pump it up to 30 psi per the sealant instructions and the bead set with no issues. I didn't even have to remove the valve core. I did bounce the tire a few times while pumping it up. The second wheel went just as easily. I did rotate them around and shake them to distribute the sealant and let them sit on a bucket for about 30 min before putting them back on the bike. No signs of leakage so far. I plan to let them sit overnight and will recheck in the morning. 

I'm sure the fact that the tires/wheels were tubeless compatible and the tires had already been mounted on the wheels for a while with tubes probably helped a lot. Didn't expect to be able to seat the beads so easily with just my standard floor pump and not removing the valve cores though. Any pressure recommendations to start for a ~220 # guy geared up?


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Tire pressures are somewhat of a subjective sort of thing based on riding style, terrain and personal preferences. 

What are your objectives and what do you usually ride?

While this is a very loose sort of formula, it's a starting point. For my riding style and terrain, this formula is a little too high psi for my personal preference, but for some, it's spot on. Use this as a beginning point to find what works for you.

weight divided by 7 = X

Front Tire = X - 1

Rear Tire = X + 2

Rider Weight = 220/7 = 31

31 - 1 = 30 psi for front tire

31 + 2 = 33 psi rear tire


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)




----------



## ericridebike (Nov 23, 2016)

Cleared2land said:


> Tire pressures are somewhat of a subjective sort of thing based on riding style, terrain and personal preferences.
> 
> What are your objectives and what do you usually ride?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! I am riding the typical desert terrain around the Phoenix area. Rocky, sandy, dirt single track for the most part. Some technical stuff over big rocks around too. Just riding for fun and fitness.


----------



## dboneslick (Apr 28, 2013)

Seating a used tire is typically easy with a floor pump. I find the compressor method (or C02) best with a new tire. It takes me no longer to seat a tubeless tire than it does to change an inner tube. The method I use works well for brand new tires with tough sidewalls. 
I work the tire on the wheel, remove the valve core and give it a shot with the compressor until I hear the bead seat. The air escapes as soon as I remove the nozzle. The bead doesn't break loose when all the air escapes as long as I don't disturb the tire. I'm not sure why others mention that they rush to put the core in before the air escapes??? This leaves me plenty of time to pour sealant in the valve stem and insert the core. I can finish the job with a hand or floor pump.


----------



## wideawakejake (Jan 18, 2015)

holy mathamatical equations Batman!!!


----------



## flomaster (Feb 11, 2014)

stumblemumble said:


> Seat the beads with a tube, pop one bead and remove tube. Then attach floor pump and press the wheel with the set-bead side against a large truck tire on a vehicle with one hand, pump with the other.
> 
> The 31 inch tires on my Tacoma press evenly against the tire of a 26 inch rim, uniformly pushing the un-set bead against the rim.
> 
> Works a charm.


I***Necro Bump****

OMG THANK YOU.....

I tried EVERYTHING short of putting gas or propane in my tube (That was going to be next). I used my 5 gallon air compressor, with core and without core, I went down to the gas station, I used a ratchet strap, I bounced the tire while airing up, I had my wife try and help me pull the tire closer to the rim.

in the end what helped me was:

 to put in a tube and seat both beads
pull one bead and remove the tube
soap up the open side
push against our Tahoe tire with the seated side
use air compressor to pop the 2nd bead on the rim
pull valve core and put 4oz of DIY Homebrew in it

-=Jason=-


----------



## ki5ka (Dec 17, 2006)

Funny how good info doesn't go out of date. 7 years old thread saves the day!

I take care of 9 bikes for a middle school race team I coach. They are ghetto tubeless and have performed flawlessly, but getting the bead set initially was difficult for a couple of wheels. 

Key suggestions for me:
Seat the bead with tube. (had to clean off the soap because the bead would slip off)
Remove core
Use lots of soap and water (after cleaning off so the one side would stay put.)

Thanks Stumblemumble


----------



## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

Somehow I missed Cleared2Land's flammable fluids magic post. 

I can tell you right now it's not an adiabatic reaction....


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm going to revive this thread, as I found a good trick for a nearly impossible tire.

I took off my big studded snow tire, then spent way too long trying to get the summer tire back on the carbon rim. Lots of mess but no success.

I used every trick I know. I used a charger pump with high pressure chamber and removed the valve core, with soap and water. Nada.
Tried a rim strap to hold the bead down- nope. 2 straps, and straps wound around the tire and rim- nope.

I tried the inner tube trick where you install an inner tube, pump up then remove one side and slip out the tube. Vey messy etc. Spent ages, sealant everywhere but no seal on the other side.

Got a good workout pumping up the pump's pressure chamber to 250 PSI maybe 25 times.

Finally found this video the next day and "Spang" - Done in 1!











I had 1 bead on from the inner tube trick, then used a strong smooth lever to seat about half the other bead, with the rest very tight against the groove.

The trick was to lever the bead level with the rim but not over it, just onto the outer raised rim and not in the groove.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I had 1 bead on from the inner tube trick, then used a strong smooth lever to seat about half the other bead, with the rest very tight against the groove.
> 
> The trick was to lever the bead level with the rim but not over it, just onto the outer raised rim and not in the groove.


Cool. My problem today (with a particularly stiff big fat summer tire) was the rim tape sunk into the nipple-holes. No matter what, the tire would get to those holes (already having one bead fully set from a tube and half of the other side in place) and about 5-6 nipple holes would just become high-pressure air-jets. So like in the video already. In the past, I've been able to plug them with my fingers and the bead pops on, but I only have so many fingers and despite pushing hard, it just wasn't working today. Had to clean off the surface, get some clear tape, just put like an inch-square piece of tape over the holes, then it popped into place fairly easily....after the 10 or more times I had already tried with every other method. Part of this is how ill-designed the charger/chamber pumps are, like my blackburn won't fill a tire without having the valve-core in place, which means it can't dump the pressure suddenly and "blow" past issues like this. These kind of pumps should have special heads/adapters to get around this IMO. Anyway...still using all the tricks in the book.


----------



## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

I had created a blog post about what's worked well for me. When doing our tire tests, I'm mounting up to 10 tires so being able to do it faster was important to me.

https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/special-events/2016/7/22/tips-tricks-for-mounting-tubeless-tires


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I'm going to revive this thread, as I found a good trick for a nearly impossible tire.
> 
> I took off my big studded snow tire, then spent way too long trying to get the summer tire back on the carbon rim. Lots of mess but no success.
> 
> ...


That's a pretty cool hack but he said they did it because they didn't carry a compressor with them. I could see it being really useful if you only had a floor pump or a tire/rim combo that was particularly difficult to seat.


----------



## Biohazard74 (Jul 16, 2009)

Lube never fails. Soapy water, cooking oil etc. Easiest way imo. Again. Never fails


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Biohazard74 said:


> Lube never fails. Soapy water, cooking oil etc. Easiest way imo. Again. Never fails


See above. Lube failed, so did using removing the valve and using an air blast from a chamber pump, and using an inner tube for one bead. The Lever trick is the only thing that worked on this tough tire.


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Spectre said:


> I had created a blog post about what's worked well for me. When doing our tire tests, I'm mounting up to 10 tires so being able to do it faster was important to me.
> 
> https://www.dirtmerchantbikes.com/special-events/2016/7/22/tips-tricks-for-mounting-tubeless-tires


I had actually gone to your blog and tried everything there to no avail the day before finding the Sid and Macky vid.
Thanks for doing it though, in the past your tricks have worked for me.
Maybe want to add the tire lever trick as a last resort?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Ofroad'bent said:


> See above. Lube failed, so did using removing the valve and using an air blast from a chamber pump, and using an inner tube for one bead. The Lever trick is the only thing that worked on this tough tire.


Well 60% of the time, it works every time!


----------



## Spectre (Jan 23, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> I had actually gone to your blog and tried everything there to no avail the day before finding the Sid and Macky vid.
> Thanks for doing it though, in the past your tricks have worked for me.
> Maybe want to add the tire lever trick as a last resort?


Will do!


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Lube failed, so did using removing the valve and using an air blast from a chamber pump, and using an inner tube for one bead.





Jayem said:


> Well 60% of the time, it works every time!


Soap has worked 100% time for me...even though I have had to resort to this maybe only 3 or 4 times. An air compressor with nozzle gun and valve removed have work 100% of the time and that has been a **** lot of tubeless tire mounts over the past decade.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> Soap has worked 100% time for me...even though I have had to resort to this maybe only 3 or 4 times. An air compressor with nozzle gun and valve removed have work 100% of the time and that has been a **** lot of tubeless tire mounts over the past decade.


THIS! Huge waste of time to try all those other tricks when removing the valve core works 100% of the time...

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## Ofroad'bent (Jul 10, 2010)

Gman086 said:


> THIS! Huge waste of time to try all those other tricks when removing the valve core works 100% of the time...
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


Read my post 83. And read 88. Removed the core, used soap... Nada. Definitely does not work 100% of the time. That was my whole point.


----------



## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

I always pinch the tire against the rim at the valve stem location when inflating... quite often, if air leaks there, the chances of getting the tire to hook up are greatly diminished.

Sometimes I can do it with a moderate-volume floor pump if not, I break out the Bontrager double chamber blaster pump. 

On occasion even that won't cut it. In those circumstances I do the following:

Install a tube in the tire
Inflate to ~30 psi until the tire hooks up
Deflate tire 
Unseat one side of the tire and pull off of the rim in order to remove tube
Install the tubeless stem
Pour sealant into bottom of tire
Gently reseat tire on rim
Inflate and SNAP- done!


----------



## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I usually inflate with a tube overnight and release one bead, apply soapy water, and remove the valve core. Even then it’s still hit-or-miss with me. If I don’t get the bead to snap into place within three tries then I’ve learned to just head to my LBS, which is right down the street. I think they charged me all of $8 last time, which is money well spent for me. Having a high volume air compressor would be nice but I don’t have room in the garage for one. 

Sometimes I forget to turn my head when I inflate and I get a warm face shot of soapy water if/when the bead snaps into place. Then I feel so dirty...


----------



## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

I guess wheel manufacturers are getting better and better at this.

On the stock Giant carbon wheels on my '19 Giant Trance 29, I'm able to pump up the tubeless tires with my HAND PUMP! Well, I guess I only tested the back wheel, but the rims have a nice smooth rubbery strip covering the center portion of the rim that the tire bead seals onto pretty well even before any air pressure. The back tire was a Maxxis DHRII.

EDIT- I mean my little trail-side emergency hand-pump that I carry in my camelpak.


----------



## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Wheelspeed said:


> I guess wheel manufacturers are getting better and better at this.
> 
> On the stock Giant carbon wheels on my '19 Giant Trance 29, I'm able to pump up the tubeless tires with my HAND PUMP! Well, I guess I only tested the back wheel, but the rims have a nice smooth rubbery strip covering the center portion of the rim that the tire bead seals onto pretty well even before any air pressure. The back tire was a Maxxis DHRII.
> 
> EDIT- I mean my little trail-side emergency hand-pump that I carry in my camelpak.


And it does vary by tire as well. I have the same wheelset and have found the Maxxis pops into place when I sneeze while Schwalbe needs some encouragement.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

No doubt, I had some schwalbes that just would not mount, tight and the folded bead would leave gaps (despite the tire being tight) and it just could not seal, with all the tricks. The trick the shop used (had to break down and bring it in) was to blast air in one of the gaps with a nozzle while at the same time filling it with air, so two air guns essentially. Supposedly this is a motorsports trick used for seating some auto tires.


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Read my post 83. And read 88. Removed the core, used soap... Nada. Definitely does not work 100% of the time. That was my whole point.


What CFM?

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Anyone who says they have a foolproof way of doing this should be barred from politics.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

Ofroad'bent said:


> Read my post 83. And read 88. Removed the core, used soap... Nada. Definitely does not work 100% of the time. That was my whole point.


Probably because you're using a floor pump with a charger chamber?! Go to your neighbors with a real air compressor - 8 gal or more and then get back to me. I've had 100% success, sometimes I do need to cup the tire (pushing it into the rim) at the valve some with my hand but no big deal.

Have FUN!

G MAN


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Gman086 said:


> Uhhm, probably because you're using a floor pump with a charger chamber?! Go to your neighbors with A REAL AIR COMPRESSOR - 5 gal or more and then get back to me. I've had 100% success, sometimes I do need to cup the tire (pushing it into the rim) at the valve some with my hand but no big deal.
> 
> Have FUN!
> 
> G MAN


I've got a 5.77 CFM @ 90 PSI 20 gallon and it's not had a 100% success rate. Obviously it's higher than a lower flow compressor but not infallible.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nothing he tried worked for Ofroad'bent and the tire lever trick did, that's all that really matters. I hadn't seen that one before and as mentioned it seems like it might really come in handy if you ever find yourself without an air compressor and/or a difficult to seat tire. I for one am glad he posted it.


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> I've got a 5.77 CFM @ 90 PSI 20 gallon and it's not had a 100% success rate. Obviously it's higher than a lower flow compressor but not infallible.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


How wide are the rims we're talking about? I could see problems with 35mm plus but not on 30mm or under. I guess rim design comes into play too; all of my rims are meant for tubeless (and are a BEEYAATCH to get the tires on).

Cheers,

G


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Gman086 said:


> How wide are the rims we're talking about? I could see problems with 35mm plus but not on 30mm or under. I guess rim design comes into play too; all of my rims are meant for tubeless (and are a BEEYAATCH to get the tires on).
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> G


Nox Farlows mounting Minions, Agressors and Assegais.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> Nox Farlows mounting Minions, Agressors and Assegais.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


My compressor has similar flow rate but does go up to 115 psi. Only twice have I had to do the "cup the tire with hand and pop towards the valve whilst leaning your body against as much of the rest of the tire as possible" trick. Same rims, same tires as you. 100% success rate. Maybe it's my trick? You can't just hit the air on the difficult ones.

Cheers,

G


----------



## tuckerjt07 (Nov 24, 2016)

Gman086 said:


> My compressor has similar flow rate but does go up to 115 psi. Only twice have I had to do the "cup the tire with hand and pop towards the valve whilst leaning your body against as much of the rest of the tire as possible" trick. Same rims, same tires as you. 100% success rate. Maybe it's my trick? You can't just hit the air on the difficult ones.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> G


And that's not a 100% success rate using a compressor. That's a 100% success rate using a compressor + x.

Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


----------



## Gman086 (Jul 4, 2004)

tuckerjt07 said:


> And that's not a 100% success rate using a compressor. That's a 100% success rate using a compressor + x.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975U1 using Tapatalk


You got me there! Ofroad'bent's video is a good trick too (finally watched it).

Cheers and stay HEALTHY peeps!

G


----------

