# New MR11 size 4up Cree LED engine



## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Finished development of the new 4*XP-G LED engine ELT41. Main features include:

Luminous output - 1000+ Lm including all losses (1500 Lm LED manufacturer's rating)
LED type - 4 * Cree XP-G R5
Voltage range 5.6...12.6V, 2S2P or 3S2P 18650 battery pack recommended
Estimated run time at full power from 2S2P pack - about 3 hours, at low mode - 7.5 hours
MR11 size 35mm diameter MCPCB, fits 16.5mm height LEDIL quad optics and 10mm height Khatod optics
11 deg FWHM with LEDIL CUTE4-SS optics - good throw, similar to popular Regina optics.
Manually assembled prototype boards on the pictures below, high-quality factory assembled would follow.









The main design idea - provide low-cost high-performance LED engine for popular MR11 enclosure size, including Marwi, Magicshine and many others.
Design include:

Optimized high-efficient boost driver with shielded inductor and high switching frequency.
Programmable thermal foldback.
Low resistance thermal path, large aluminium thermal sink. 
Both power interruption and separate momentary switch control modes supported. By default 3 modes - low, high and strobe.
Reverse polarity protection
In-circuit firmware programming connector for easy customization.

First tests was done with simple aluminium case from MJ-836. It have 43mm outer diameter, 35.5mm inner and ELT41 engine with LEDIL optics fits perfectly.









Full bike light complect looks like this, MJ-828 battery with backlight display can also be used









We have tested this light on night bicycle tracks, compared with MJ-808/MJ-836 P7 light and MJ-816 dual P7/Cree light. 
First impressions - LEDIL Cute-4SS lense with XP-G is extremely good as cycle light and easily outperform MJ-808/MJ-836 P7 lights. It provides almost uniform light from short and long distances - up to 50-70 meters.

Beamshots will follow.

Nothing is for sale for now. Appropriate classified ad as required by forum rules:
https://classifieds.mtbr.com/showproduct.php?product=56530


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

*cough* advert *cough*


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## odtexas (Oct 2, 2008)

Very nice option. Thanks for building this module. Keep us informed when it is available for sale and please place an ad in the classifieds section of mtbr.
Might also recommend that you make optics available on your site/ad.
Alot of people are looking for a one stop shopping experience and chasing optics all over the internet can be challenging unless you know where to look.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Any idea what pricing will be?


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

MrLee said:


> Any idea what pricing will be?


I expect about 50USD for the LED engine with lense and probably about 120USD for complete light in the MJ-836 case.


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## Goldigger (Nov 6, 2009)

Battery pack looks like a right beast..try strapping that to your stem..


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Very interesting looking. Whats the microcontroller? do I see some spair pins? I am wondering wether it could be interfaced to SparkFuns Ant Module for radio control.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Goldigger said:


> Battery pack looks like a right beast..try strapping that to your stem..


Easy  Can-like battery pack have appropriate pocket with wide strap. Modern MJ-828 pack also have strap included, also rubber on the bottom side. Both pattery packs fully waterproof up to IP67.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

ifor said:


> Very interesting looking. Whats the microcontroller? do I see some spair pins? I am wondering wether it could be interfaced to SparkFuns Ant Module for radio control.


ATTINY13 microcontroller used and yes, it have 2 spare pins, used only for in-circuit programming. I have checked ANT protocol description and probably yes, LED engine can be controlled over the air with ANT protocol and appropriate RF receiver module. Main problem will be RF antenna location, as it probably would not work inside the aluminium light case.


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## Chromagftw (Feb 12, 2009)

Estimated run times based on said power supply?


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Perhaps a stupid question, but with the separate optics (rather than a reflector that surrounds the LED), no separate reflector is needed?

*Edit:* One more question, how is the whiteness of the light in comparison to the MS900? The only complaint I have with MS is that the white LED causes white blindness against light ground color on the trail. This is a complaint that myself and the other 7 people with Magic Shine in my riding group have. Wearing amber lensed glasses helps with this, but are these LEDs available in a less blinding white?

I like!


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Chromagftw said:


> Estimated run times based on said power supply?


Similar to MJ-808/MJ-836 P7 lights - about 2.5 hours at full power, 7-8 hours in low mode.
Driver efficiency is more than 90%, LED current is 1100mA, total LED power about 13.5W.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

isleblue65 said:


> Perhaps a stupid question, but with the separate optics (rather than a reflector that surrounds the LED), no separate reflector is needed?
> are these LEDs available in a less blinding white?


Yes, you does not need any additional reflector. 
Yes, XPG white LEDs available in three main colors: cool white, natural white and warm white. Natural white usually looks better for bike lights and did not have white blindness, typical for cool white LEDS with high color temperature.
Some LED tints comparison:
http://jtice.com/review/lights/led_tints/


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## isleblue65 (Sep 5, 2009)

Eltehs said:


> Yes, you does not need any additional reflector.
> Yes, XPG white LEDs available in three main colors: cool white, natural white and warm white. Natural white usually looks better for bike lights and did not have white blindness, typical for cool white LEDS with high color temperature.
> Some LED tints comparison:
> http://jtice.com/review/lights/led_tints/


Thanks for the link. great info!

_"One interesting thing I found was that every agree that when the neutral AND the warm tint led were used together, that it produced the best color, and especially the best color retention. I think this was mainly due to the fact that is created a much wider range of color temp."_

I'm curious as to what is the color temp the P7 M.S. uses? It would be great to have an XPG with a different color than the P7 used in M.S. so you could get the best range of color in your lights.


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

I think you mean MR11 (35mm), not MR16 (50mm).

Which ledil optic are you using. Is it the Cute-4-SS designed for the XR-E? I've used that optic and it does work on XPGs. I'm not aware of a Ledil 35mm quad optic design specifically for the XPE/G.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

MtbMacgyver said:


> I think you mean MR11 (35mm), not MR16 (50mm).
> 
> Which ledil optic are you using. Is it the Cute-4-SS designed for the XR-E? I've used that optic and it does work on XPGs. I'm not aware of a Ledil 35mm quad optic design specifically for the XPE/G.


that will be the GT4 
http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_GT4-XP-G.pdf

I have tried one last week and was not impressed:nonod:


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## MtbMacgyver (Jan 23, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> that will be the GT4
> http://www.ledil.com/datasheets/DataSheet_GT4-XP-G.pdf
> 
> I have tried one last week and was not impressed:nonod:


You're right, I should have said a reasonably narrow quad optic designed specifically for the XPE/G. I've played with the GT4 and the narrowest beam angle makes a good wide flood. The GT4 is fairly distinctive looking and I can tell from the picture that it's not a GT4. It looks like the Cute4-SS designed for the XR-E. Unless there's a new Cute4 designed for the XPG that's not listed on the Ledil web site.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

MtbMacgyver said:


> I think you mean MR11 (35mm), not MR16 (50mm).
> 
> Which ledil optic are you using. Is it the Cute-4-SS designed for the XR-E? I've used that optic and it does work on XPGs. I'm not aware of a Ledil 35mm quad optic design specifically for the XPE/G.


Thank you, MtbMacgyver - MR11 size.

Yes, Cute-4-SS optics designed for XR-E. It have 9 degree FWHM for XR-E and about 11 degree, if using with XP-G.


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## ifor (Apr 15, 2008)

Eltehs said:


> ATTINY13 microcontroller used and yes, it have 2 spare pins, used only for in-circuit programming. I have checked ANT protocol description and probably yes, LED engine can be controlled over the air with ANT protocol and appropriate RF receiver module. Main problem will be RF antenna location, as it probably would not work inside the aluminium light case.


Theoreticaly conectable then but 1k of flash and virtualy zero ram would make the firmware very tricky trying to drive a software uart to talk to the Ant. I have it working for the flex drivers but they are tiny85 so a lot more resources in comparison to a tiny13. Too bad I would like to try it with one of the new integrated driver boards.


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## quazzle (Apr 1, 2009)

nice! congrats! 
subscribed


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

Is that the new magic shine battery pack?


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

biketuna said:


> Is that the new magic shine battery pack?


Yes, it is MJ-828 battery pack from Magicshine. It looks the best in terms cost/efficiency for typical applications.


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## Zigger Suddenness (Jun 4, 2007)

... and still easily dies without balancing circuit. Am I wrong ?


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Zigger Suddenness said:


> ... and still easily dies without balancing circuit. Am I wrong ?


You are right. From the previous user experience, it need to be balanced after 100-200 cycles. You can always use other power options, if you need more runtime or more recharge cycles without balancing. Some examples:
7.4V 9Ah (66Wh) battery: 
http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionbattery74v9ah666whwithpcb.aspx
7.4V 10Ah (74Wh) battery:
http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionboxbattery74v10ah74wh7arateinplasticenclsouretrial-techplug.aspx
7.4V 25.2Ah (186.48Wh) battery:
http://www.batteryspace.com/polymerli-ionboxbattery74v252ah18648wh14aratewithtrial-techplug.aspx

So, it is all about your usage pattern. If you need to use it every night 365 days per year - probably you will need high-quality battery, for example one from the links above.
From my experience, for typical weekend ridings Magichine 2S2P battery would work well for 1-2 years and than need to be balanced. After simple balancing procedure it usually would work for another 100 cycles. Comparing prices with the batteries on the links above, it have very good price/performance ratio.


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

Very promising project! Congrats!

I have one question, how did you manage to order the magichine light without lens,optic and driver? Do they sell housings and batteries individually???


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Giant-Lander said:


> I have one question, how did you manage to order the magichine light without lens,optic and driver? Do they sell housings and batteries individually???


For the development purposes I have ordered complete lights and just disassemble it and replace electronics and optics. For the production we made quality housings in local CNC house at very reasonable cost, subject to minimum order quantity. As regarding batteries and other accessories - yes, all of them available separately.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Eltehs,

I have sent you an email via MTBR.com concerning this product, but have received no reply. Did you get my email?


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

BlownCivic said:


> Eltehs,
> 
> I have sent you an email via MTBR.com concerning this product, but have received no reply. Did you get my email?


No - did not see private message or email from you... Looks like all my forum profile settings is OK.


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

Will this drop in to a magic shine body??


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Good to see products that will be able to use the 35mm diameter Marwi housings.

I still have several hundred here of both body styles and hopefully they will all find good homes someday.
One things for sure, the aluminum Marwi housings are great DIY platforms, lightweight and solid
I can see them being used for DIY projects for a very long time to come
The old style body only weighs 28grams
The new style body only weighs 36 grams

Not sure how I would mount the 4 x XPG board without having a custom heat sink made.
Looks like the whole board assembly would have to be screwed down to a heat sink and then the heat sink would have to extend out to the outer shell.
I would have to experiment, but $50 is an expensive experiment.

Eltehs, have you attempted a Marwi conversion with your board?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

What biketuna said. I'm itching to do some sort of mod and this would be fun/easy for me.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

What if I bought the board and you assemble and test, then send to me for some in the rain abuse?



El34 said:


> Good to see products that will be able to use the 35mm diameter Marwi housings.
> 
> I still have several hundred here of both body styles and hopefully they will all find good homes someday.
> One things for sure, the aluminum Marwi housings are great DIY platforms, lightweight and solid
> ...


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

biketuna said:


> Will this drop in to a magic shine body??


Magicshine produce several different bike lights. The body on the picture at the first post also from Magicshine - MJ-836 light.

I have tested also MJ-816 body. Yes, it is possible to put ELT41 engine here.








You only need to install new slug instead of the one, used to hold P7 LED PCB. Same slug also need for MJ-836 body, so I already have made it and can provide with the ELT41 LED engine as upgrade kit.

I did not have Marwi and MJ-808 body on hand to test, however from this threads
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=636260
https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=527707
it looks, like ELT41 can also be easily installed into both of them.

For MJ-808 body you probably need the same slug, as for MJ-816/MJ-836 body:


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

> What if I bought the board and you assemble and test, then send to me for some in the rain abuse?


I don't have a heat sink and so there's no way to build the light.
I don't really have time to take on any new projects right now.



> I did not have Marwi and MJ-808 body on hand to test


Well I have a huge supply of Marwi bodies and they are cheap.
Less than $10 each in bulk.

You can't even get 5 minutes of design time or machine shop time for what these cost.
Getting a heat sink made in China is way cheaper than here in the US.
More platforms for your module means way more module sales.

Anywho, just throwing out info.

Seems kind of silly to IMO to purchase a functioning Magic shine light and tear it apart.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Makes more sense to me, there is always someone popping up asking for a marwi conversion, and although there are lots of magicshiners out there, *currently *, I doubt they would want to fork out $50+ on a conversion on a $70 light.

$50 seems too steep when you can get a solid taskled driver and xpgs for around the same cost.


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## OldMTBfreak (Apr 8, 2006)

I feel certain that plenty of people making their lights would like to see a single component solution. If you can also buy the other necessary parts at same place, that's cool also. This isn't for me, but I like it. The Cute-4 optic for the XPE, works ok. I didn't even file the locating posts, the optic is above the led's by 1/8" or so. With the XPE, the Cute-4 is very narrow. Beam is wider with the XPG, still works ok for helmet light. I gotta admit though I use a wide angle bar light. 2 MCE's with Fraen wide reflectors.


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

OldMTBfreak said:


> I feel certain that plenty of people making their lights would like to see a single component solution.


like the lux-rc boards?


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Very interesting project! Keep going!


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

El34 said:


> I don't have a heat sink and so there's no way to build the light.
> I don't really have time to take on any new projects right now.
> 
> Well I have a huge supply of Marwi bodies and they are cheap.
> ...


Maybe I pay for the board, the maker does a heatsink, you throw it together... I'll make a battery. You could sell through the bodies...


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

I would like to see (and buy) this board with XPE R3 WH and without strobe.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Eltehs,
What is the total height from bottom of board to top of optic?

Was not sure is that 16.5mm figure is the optic height or a total height?


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

El34 said:


> Eltehs,
> What is the total height from bottom of board to top of optic?
> Was not sure is that 16.5mm figure is the optic height or a total height?


Optic height, including pins = total height = 16.5 mm. 
http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_Cute-4.pdf
Board is 1.5mm thick, optics height from the board 15 mm. Proto board diameter 35 mm, for production I would squeeze it to 32mm to fit all possible mountings, including MJ-808 and Marwi. I expect to have both samples in one week, already ordered.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Thanks

ok, so total stack height is 16.5 + 1.5 = 18mm

I just measured both style Marwi bodies internal diamters and they are both around 32.2 mm.

32mm will fit, but the edge of the board should be made so that no copper traces can short out on the metal body.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

El34 said:


> ok, so total stack height is 16.5 + 1.5 = 18mm


Total ELT41 module height with LEDIL optics is only 16.5mm. With Khatod optics - 10.5mm.
Yes, 32 mm diameter should fit. We only need to make some sort of slug for both Marwi types as the thermal base of the board.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Ok, here's some pics of both Marwi shell types.
I am assuming that the front optic will rest right up against the rubber O-ring just like the glass does with a common reflector.

Both styles have a certain amount of flat inner diameter area from the front Oring to a point where the shells starts to taper down in diameter.

The old style has a flat inner length of 22mm
The new style shell has 28mm

The challenge I see is how to fix a heat sink in place so that it contacts the inner shell wall solidly.

Also, if the optics are different heights, then the heat sink would have to be fixed in different positions for different total stack heights.

Not sure how that would be done.
There's no way to thread the inner shell.
Screwing the heat sink in different places is not gonna work for the average Joe.
Some sort of thermal epoxy could glue it in place. (Not sure if there is such a thing)

Maybe the collective DIY community can come up with a solution that is simple and does not require a machine shop so that anyone can assemble a light using a module like this.

Here's the pics and measurements for both style Marwi shells.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

Press fitting a slug of the same dimensions as ID should do the job just fine. Maybe adding some thermal paste before pressing it in would help filling those micro gaps. I'm about to do a mod with an MCE and a Fraen reflector, as soon as I get all the parts together. The driver should fit in behind the slug, where the body tappers. Since the OD of the reflector is 34.5mm and has a really thin bezel, a part of the reflector shoul stil sit on the bezel of the housing, so teh measurings are still to come. The slug should end up at about 12mm thicknes. Dont know the exact dimensions of other optics that fit this four up, but the procedure should be pretty much the same. Once all things are measured and fitted one could start selling some small serie or kits.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes, pressing in a slug should work.

But then how does the average guy do that?

Remember that the slug would have to be pressed in different depths for different height optics.

And it is fairly critical to get it pressed in an exact depth or else the optics will not press up against the front O-ring snugly.

Also, soldering up all the bits inside on an assembly that does not come out of the light would be a PITA.

Just some thoughts.

Maybe we should not be hijacking this thread?
Eltehs can tell us to take a hike if he wants.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Some beamshots.

The following five lights used for comparison:
Uniquefire L2, MJ-836, MJ-816, *ELT41*, *ELT71*
1xXPG, 1xP7, 1xP7+2xCree, *4xXPG*, *7xXPG*









MTBR settings used for beamshots: 6 seconds at F4, white balance daylight, ISO100.
White markers at 40 and 80 m.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Cool,
I would like to comapre the ELT41 in a Marwi shell to my Single P7's in a Marwi shell.
Maybe we can do a trade on some goodies.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Hey do you have also a light engine for the 7up?


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Whitedog1 said:


> Hey do you have also a light engine for the 7up?


I have few prototypes, but still not decide, what input voltage range will be most useful:
- 4.5...9V input range, two boost converters, 3 and 4 LED drived separately. Compatible with existing Magischine 2S2P batteries/chargers
- 10...18V input range, one boost converter, all LED in series
- 10...18V input range, 3 buck converters, 2+2+3 LED drived separately (similar to Cutter Quiccpower407, but in MR11 formfactor).
Two latest options should be compatible with different 12V systems and 3S/4S battery packs.


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

El34 said:


> Yes, pressing in a slug should work.
> 
> But then how does the average guy do that?
> 
> ...


Different sized slugs for different type of optics always pressed to the same depth. PITA is soldering a XPG in a Regina housing, MR11 sized housing is far from that (18mm ID 19mm depth comparing to 32.2mm ID and 19mm depth)


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## biketuna (Mar 28, 2008)

This is getting good!!!!!


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## MrLee (May 28, 2010)

Eltehs said:


> Some beamshots.
> 
> The following five lights used for comparison:
> Uniquefire L2, MJ-836, MJ-816, *ELT41*, *ELT71*
> ...


Are these the first beamshots we've seen of the new magic shine (836) with its new reflector design - looks like it has improved the pattern over the older design?


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

MJ836 gets a lot of beam fill/spread from the 2 sattelite LEDs.

Whoops. Never mind. I see I got the 836 and the 816 mixed up.


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## Whitedog1 (Feb 3, 2009)

Eltehs said:


> I have few prototypes, but still not decide, what input voltage range will be most useful:
> - 4.5...9V input range, two boost converters, 3 and 4 LED drived separately. Compatible with existing Magischine 2S2P batteries/chargers
> - 10...18V input range, one boost converter, all LED in series
> - 10...18V input range, 3 buck converters, 2+2+3 LED drived separately (similar to Cutter Quiccpower407, but in MR11 formfactor).
> Two latest options should be compatible with different 12V systems and 3S/4S battery packs.


hmmm..
I think the "10...18V input range, one boost converter, all Led in series" option will be the most practical solution!

Using the existing Magicshine batteries on the 7up you won't get much runtime!


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## MHC (Oct 23, 2009)

El34 - I've done many old style Marwi conversions using Cutter quad & triple kits using my own heatsink slug that is an interference fit in the housing, I heat the housing up to 90C & slide the assembled slug/LED/optic in to the Marwi with heat transfer paste & they fit fine.


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

MHC - Pretty cool, thanks for the info


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Eltehs,

I got you test email, and sent an email in reply (about 3 days ago), but you still have not replied. Please let me know the answers to the quesitons in my email.

Thanks


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

I already sent answer to you in email...



BlownCivic said:


> I got you test email, and sent an email in reply (about 3 days ago), but you still have not replied. Please let me know the answers to the quesitons in my email.


As soon, as I have production PCB mounted, I would post info in the forum and open sales thread. I can not send you proto boards, as they used for development.


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

Have made detailed driver measurements. All specifications confirms design goals.










Actual driver working range 5.6...12.8V. At lower voltages inductor switch current is limited to 3A and LED current will be lower, than nominal 1,1A. At voltages higher than 12.8V, LEDs will be direct driven with only 0.18 Ohm resistor limiting the current. So, it would work well with 2S or 3S Li-Ion battery packs.


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## Viva Borracho (Aug 8, 2007)

Any progress on this project using the Marwi bodies?


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## El34 (Jan 11, 2009)

Eltehs ordered some Marwi bodies from me.
Maybe he has a plan, but at the current time, I am not working on anything.

Got a million other things going on.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Hey Eltehs..... any word on this or the 7-up version? I'm getting ready to build SOMETHING and looking at all these boards...


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## Eltehs (Sep 22, 2010)

gticlay said:


> Hey Eltehs..... any word on this or the 7-up version? I'm getting ready to build SOMETHING and looking at all these boards...


I am not satisfied with Khatod 7up optics quality, so I would not move ELT71 board to the production. And with XM-L release it also does not make sense for economical reasons.
So currently I am working on 32mm board with 3xXM-L. It would fit to the same shells as ELT41 board and use 35mm Ledil CUTE-3 optics. With 19 degree optics it will be great flood light, especially for technical ridings.

Same modes, as for ELT41, this new ELT31 board can be powered from 3S or 4S battery packs, also from any 12V source. I expect to obtain up to 2400lm from the LEDs and about 2000lm with all losses.

BTW, I expect to get ELT41 from the assemling house on the next week.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Eltehs said:


> I am not satisfied with Khatod 7up optics quality, so I would not move ELT71 board to the production. *And with XM-L release it also does not make sense for economical reasons.
> So currently I am working on 32mm board with 3xXM-L. It would fit to the same shells as ELT41 board and use 35mm Ledil CUTE-3 optics. With 19 degree optics it will be great flood light, especially for technical ridings.*
> 
> Same modes, as for ELT41, this new ELT31 board can be powered from 3S or 4S battery packs, also from any 12V source. I expect to obtain up to 2400lm from the LEDs and about 2000lm with all losses.
> ...


3-up XM-L MR-11 board :ihih: ....SWEET! We are not worthy...:thumbsup: :rockon:


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## Itess (Feb 22, 2009)

Eltehs said:


> So currently I am working on 32mm board with 3xXM-L. It would fit to the same shells as ELT41 board and use 35mm Ledil CUTE-3 optics. With 19 degree optics it will be great flood light, especially for technical ridings.


Great!


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## JMCCRNA (Dec 2, 2005)

any updates? I have a magicshine MJ-80j I am looking to cannibalize.


JMC


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

He may not have posted here, but I think we are getting VERY close to modding our MS900's 

I've been bugging him relentlessly. I want to try this so badly in an MS body.

The one thing I don't understand is why not a 1.2A setting?


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## savagemann (Jan 14, 2008)

2 MS lights here need modding. 
When can we expect to get these engines in our hands?


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## Toaster79 (Apr 5, 2010)

As soon as the XM-L is fitted on the board!


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