# She's Finally Done.



## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

Took me what it seems like an eternity, but my first frame is finally done! Turned out pretty nice also.

Started researching the project in January. After doing as much research for about a month, I got an idea of what would work and what else I could do differently than what's been done. Time to put my theory to the test, I finally got the order going. Had the bamboo cut green from North Carolina to my specific sizes. All metal parts came from Paragon and Nova. With bamboo not being perfectly round or straight, I decided to draft all the angles and measurements on paper instead of using a cad program. The jig was built with 3/4" mdf, drywall screws and JB Weld.

The lugs were made from hemp fiber and epoxy and epoxy was used to tack the the joints together. Tools used were angle grinder, Dremel, drill press, table saw, miter saw, file and sand paper.

The bamboo weighed 2.1 lbs. After the frame was tacked together it was 3.45 lbs. It weighed 5.8 lbs after wrapping the joints with epoxy and hemp fiber. After sanding it down it finally weighed 5.1 lbs. A bit heavier than I had hoped for, but I just wanted to make sure the lugs would hold the whole frame up. After sanding it down with the angle grinder and the Dremel, I sanded smoother with 60 grit sand paper, then 100 grit and then finally 400 grit. I then applied a coat of epoxy over the whole frame. Sanded it smoothe with 100 grit the 400 grit. Applie the paint and then clear coat.

The finall geometry came out to be: 71 deg head angle, 73 deg seat angle, Eff TT 585 mm, actual chainstag 17.5", 18" seat tube and 12.5" BB height. Geometry is based off Manitou Minute 120mm 29er fork with 47mm offset and 535 axle to crown.

Initial impressions: First off, I've ridden many hardtails in steel and alu, but I am totally a full suspension. The hype with bamboo is that it's light like alu, stronger than steel, and rides better and more crash tolerant than carbon. I haven't had a chance to take it on an actual trail ride yet, so first impression is based on an hour session at a park with no trail but big rocks with1-2 feet drops. I've never ridden carbon so I can't comment on that, but WOW!!! this frame rides smoother than any hardtail I've ridden. I've always found hardtails too harsh over rocks and bumps. I was amaze by how well the bamboo handled rocks, bumps and drops. After sessioning around 45 minutes I was confident enough to start hucking it off 1-2 drops. After a few hucks I'm still alive and the frame is still in one peice.:thumbsup: Can't wait to get some actual trail mileage on it to see how well it really rides.

The raw look before meeting the angle grinder. My wife calls this the bird's nest because, well, because that's what the hemp fiber really looks like.









































After the angle grinder, Dremel, filing and sanding

























After a coat of epoxy









The final product.

















































After 1.5 months of trial and error and a lot of frustration, balancing work and parenting duties, I'm pretty happy with the outcome. I think my wife is just happy its finally done, the first one that is. Now time to start making our two road bikes.


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## DWF (Jan 12, 2004)

Damn Ko! You rocked that *****!


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## sandan (Feb 17, 2004)

Very cool. Keep up the good work.​


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## davesauvageau (Jan 8, 2010)

When I saw the first pic of the raw and uncleaned fiber, I literally said "gross." After I saw the progression and how you cleaned it up, I was very impressed! That finished product looks amazing!


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

DWF said:


> Damn Ko! You rocked that *****!


Having an Anvil jig would've saved me a lot of headache. I stole the idea of the dropouts from Nancy. I remember you mentioning somewhere those dropouts were flexy so I wrapped a little extra to see of that would help with the flex. This bike will accompany me on the CT in 1.5 months.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

davesauvageau said:


> When I saw the first pic of the raw and uncleaned fiber, I literally said "gross." After I saw the progression and how you cleaned it up, I was very impressed! That finished product looks amazing!


Thanks for the compliment. I spent at least 15 man hours on grinding and sanding away the excess material alone. It's satisfactory but not perfect. I could easily spend another whole day making it perfect, but I've spent over 100 hrs and wasted the whole spring of riding away so now I only have 2.5 months of riding left before my seasons over. I just said screw it, I'm going riding. Next frame I think I cold cut the build time in half.


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## crux (Jan 10, 2004)

Nice work


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## biggoofy1 (Aug 24, 2009)

looks amazing


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## SnowMongoose (Feb 18, 2007)

Soooooo cool!


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

kosayno said:


> but I've spent over 100 hrs and wasted the whole spring of riding away so now I only have 2.5 months of riding left before my seasons over.


You have now experienced what it is to be a real framebuilder (and they wonder why some of us get fat) You now are ready my son....










All joking aside....good job!

how did you cure the green bamboo tubes? and you have any pictures of how that seat stay cluster came together?


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## Smokebikes (Feb 2, 2008)

Your first frame? Dang, that's some *fine* work! :thumbsup:

But, these are some mighty "strong" claims............"_The hype with bamboo is that it's light like alu, stronger than steel, and rides better and more crash tolerant than carbon_." Be careful and check it often........I have only built one for a friend and I remember having to make sure there where no splits in the wood while cutting it.


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## gsomtb (Jul 18, 2007)

It turned out hot!!!!

I'm really curious about it's long term life - not being an a$$.....sincere b/c I'm really interested in getting one.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

gsomtb said:


> It turned out hot!!!!
> 
> I'm really curious about it's long term life - not being an a$$.....sincere b/c I'm really interested in getting one.


Calfee warranties his frames for 10 years and BooBicycles has a lifetime warranty, mine is ride at your own risk.



> how did you cure the green bamboo tubes? and you have any pictures of how that seat stay cluster came together?


I first tried the flame torch method like most have. The coloration came out uneven and after 15 minutes for one tube, I was still not dry on the inside, only on the surface. I was like @$#@ this is gonna take forever. I came up with an idea to use my convection oven and baked at 300 degrees for about an hour or until it came out to a nice golden brown. Since I'm here in Denver, I adjusted the baking for altitude just like the Betty Crocker instructions on the Bamboo said to. 
I didn't take pictures of the seatstay cluster before I wrapped it with the hemp lug. I made it a wishbone design using 1 inch bamboo. There's 3 peices on each seatstay. and two peices are joined together where it meats the seat tube.


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## Freddy Salgado (Jun 4, 2009)

Very nice 1st turn out Ko, well worth the effort I expect. Like the wishbone ss, and the finish is choice. I have ridden carbon for awhile, but nothing even come close to comfort, shock absorbing qualities as bamboo. Nice to have something abit different in the arsenal of rigs.


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## MMcG (Jul 7, 2003)

That bike is awesome.


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Cool.


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## mattbryant2 (Apr 19, 2005)

Amazing.

You would be the people's hero (certainly my hero) if you put together a how-to. This project would be of great appeal to the DIY type.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

mattbryant2 said:


> Amazing.
> 
> You would be the people's hero (certainly my hero) if you put together a how-to. This project would be of great appeal to the DIY type.


Google was my best friend. I work nights in front of a computer, so I have lots of downtime to do research. I found most of my info on Instructables.com. Here's a good one: http://bamboobike.wordpress.com/ .I asked a lot of questions, got some goods answers and some useless info. When I give out info or directions, I tend to get anal and spend too much time with details and to be honest, this project took a lot of time and frustration and right now I just don't have the energy to put together a how-to. If you decide to start a project, I'd be more than glad to answer any questions along the way.


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## DBY (Mar 9, 2010)

Desire, determination and skill. The end result is amazing! Congrats on finishing it up, so cool I don't even have words. Wow.


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## spokeywheeler (Dec 1, 2006)

Looks sweet! Way to go.


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## rasse1977 (May 16, 2008)

Very cool. 

Care to share how much $$$ you have spent on the frame...?


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

rasse1977 said:


> Very cool.
> 
> Care to share how much $$$ you have spent on the frame...?


I spent roughly $600 for enough material to complete 4 frames. I'd probably have to spend another $100 on epoxy and hemp fiber to finish the remaining frames. So total would be roughly $700 for 4 frames.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

sessionrider said:


> Looks sweet! Way to go.


Thanks. My lugs came out pretty good, but doesn't quite look as smooth as yours. After you wrapped the joints with the hemp, did you use anything for compression or did you just let let it air dry?


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## shovelon (Mar 16, 2006)

That's reaally neat!:thumbsup:

Better keep it away from the camp fire. You don't want this.


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## campredcloudbikes (Feb 22, 2008)

Excellent! Sounds like a fun project, except for all the stickiness and fumes
Did I hear you mention riding this on the CT? Were you referring to the CTR? If so, now you need to sew up some custom DIY bags, tarp, quilt, apparel, etc.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

campredcloudbikes said:


> Excellent! Sounds like a fun project, except for all the stickiness and fumes
> Did I hear you mention riding this on the CT? Were you referring to the CTR? If so, now you need to sew up some custom DIY bags, tarp, quilt, apparel, etc.


The fumes weren't bad, it was the dust and debris from sanding that sucked. Wanted to do the CTR, but schedule won't allow it so I'm just doing the CTR minus the R. Already working on the DIY frame bag and the bamboo rear rack.


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## PBR me! (Feb 23, 2008)

*Just dont let lubes ride it! * 








Seriously she's a beauty! yes we need to ride together soon! We were just talking about a indian creek t.i.t.s. ride!


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## mountaingoatepics (Jan 30, 2004)

That's awesome Ko! Can't wait to ride with ya again and see it in person!


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## lubes17319 (Dec 19, 2005)

Great job ko!
Looks real nice.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

PBR me! said:


> *Just dont let lubes ride it! *
> View attachment 546463
> 
> 
> Seriously she's a beauty! yes we need to ride together soon! We were just talking about a indian creek t.i.t.s. ride!


Don't worry, this bike will stay away from him. kidding aside, Lubes would be perfect candidate to test the strength of bamboo. I'm too much of a lightweight to put any serious abuse on the frame.


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## bad_andy (Apr 17, 2009)

DOOOOOOOOOD!
That's most impressive.
:thumbsup:


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## pulser (Dec 6, 2004)

Thats really cool. I love the look of a bamboo bike. I'm thinking about giving this a try myself. Can you take a pic of your Jig? And where did you get your lugs from?


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

You Rock!


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## tw3nty9er (Oct 6, 2009)

pulser said:


> Thats really cool. I love the look of a bamboo bike. I'm thinking about giving this a try myself. Can you take a pic of your Jig? And where did you get your lugs from?


yeah, a picture of the jig would be cool. in fact, any pictures that you think a newby should see would be great. thanks for the site recs, i'll look into those too.

but WOW, congrats on a beautiful build. I hope it holds up for ya.


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## drunkinCO (Jan 24, 2009)

Fantastic job! I hope to see it on a trail in the near future, ring the bell as you pedal by...


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

pulser said:


> Thats really cool. I love the look of a bamboo bike. I'm thinking about giving this a try myself. Can you take a pic of your Jig? And where did you get your lugs from?


I'm embarrassed to post a picture of the jig. It looks like something you would pull out of a high school dumpster behind the wood shop class in the ghetto. My original jig didn't align the rear properly so I had to take the rear triangle apart. I then rebuilt a chainstay fixture and then peiced the rear together then put epoxied it to the front triangle. I don't have any alignment tools to measure it, but eyeballing it looks straight and it steers straight riding it no handed down the street.


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## mmmatt (May 16, 2010)

totally awesome man! good stuff!!


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

So it is fair to assume you chopped up a donor frame for the BB shell, head tube and a portion of the seat tube? How did you prep these for use? Can you share what tube diameters you would up using for the finished frame?

Also, I respect your comment about the jig. If you don't mind would you be willing to P.M. me a picture PLEASE? I promise I will not share it with anyone under any circumstances.  


Great job. I'm very impressed with the outcome and love seeing a frame that one can ride that didn't require welding. :thumbsup:


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## Yogii (Jun 5, 2008)

AndrewTO if you read the original post you would see that he says he got the metal pieces from Paragon and Nova.


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## AndrewTO (Mar 30, 2005)

Yogii said:


> AndrewTO if you read the original post you would see that he says he got the metal pieces from Paragon and Nova.


I did. I wasn't sure if he meant he hacked parts from a paragon frame and Nova frame or .....


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

AndrewTO said:


> So it is fair to assume you chopped up a donor frame for the BB shell, head tube and a portion of the seat tube? How did you prep these for use? Can you share what tube diameters you would up using for the finished frame?
> 
> Also, I respect your comment about the jig. If you don't mind would you be willing to P.M. me a picture PLEASE? I promise I will not share it with anyone under any circumstances.
> 
> Great job. I'm very impressed with the outcome and love seeing a frame that one can ride that didn't require welding. :thumbsup:


Thanks for the compliments. I didn't do any hacking. Dropouts were Paragon and BB, HT, ST and cable guides were Nova. All the the bamboo was mitered with a 8" drill press and then joined to the metal parts with epoxy. During the heat treating/drying process, the wax in the bamboo comes up to the surface and dries to a nice smooth finish which needs to be sanded down before it is glue-able.

Tube diameters are: TT 42mm, DT 44mm, ST 34mm, CS 26mm, SS 22mm. Bamboo isn't perfectly round and thickness can also vary noticeably from one end of the tube to the other. Some tubes are pretty close to round and some are noticeably oval. All measurements were taken at the widest part of each tube.

As far as the jig goes, I'll post pics when next week when I have time. It's no so much that I'm trying to be secretive about it, I just didn't want any one to die laughing at it.


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

How is this frame holding up? 

Anything more to add now that you've had time to put some miles on the bike and reflect on the process?


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## Calles (May 25, 2010)

I'm glad Shirk brought this thread back to life. I hadn't seen it before, and that bike is sweet! Id also really like to know what kind of life you can get out of these frames. It would seem like a great idea for a road bike, but would it be able to do ANY single-track stuff? Id be a bit leary... but i guess i dont know hardly anything about the hemp fibre and bamboo as far as molecular structure and all the fancy engineering stuff.

Update purty please!


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## proline69 (Apr 14, 2009)

Very nice


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

This update is long overdue, but when life gets in the way, well, you know how that goes. Few things have changed since the last post. With this being my first frame, it's a little trial and error and you learn as you go. Luckily this error didn't cost me any injured body parts. I've crashed a few times, but on ride #4 a crash with a boulder cracked the wishbone on the driveside. I concluded that the crack was caused by a weak joint of the tubes and poor wrapping of the hemp fiber. The hemp was wrapped unidirectionally and it cracked along the grain (for lack of better terminology). Upon further inspection of all the hemp lugs, I found more cracks along the grain of the hemp fiber. Disappointed with the amount of work I already put into the bike, I decided to just tear down the the whole rear triangle and use carbon fiber for the lugs. I also decided to not go with a wishbone seatstay. So with time passing by quickly and only one week to finish the bike before a big move from Colorado to Laos, I got the bike done just in time, but didn't have time to smoothen out the lugs or give the bike a finish coat.

Fast forward 3 months since the bike was refinished. Laos has a hot and humid tropical climate and I arrived here in the middle of the monsoon season. So three months without any waterproof protection, the dropouts have started to rust and the bamboo looks a bit weathered. I did my best to dry the bike completely after each rainy and muddy ride, but parking the bike outside in the humidity left it a victim to moisture by condensation.

The bike in it's natural element:













































The original bamboo tubes were cut fresh and green, but the leftover tubes weren't heat treated and started to dry naturally. So when I went to heat treat the leftover tubes for the seatstays in the oven it split during the cooling process. Luckily I had one tube left for the chainstays when I dried the first batch of tubes. However, the supplier I used to get the green tubes never returned my emails so I had to order naturally dried tubes for the seatstays. So after two months, both sides of the seatstays have split, but the heat treated tubes on the rest of the bike are showing no signs of splitting. Even with all the free bamboo I could want use here in the jungle, I don't have a any tools and can't get any carbon fiber and epoxy economically here to fix the bike now. I decided to just continue riding the bike in the current condition. I was bit hesitant at first, but two months of riding with split seatstays over bumpy dirt roads and tons of roots in the jungle haven't broken the seatstays yet.










All in all, I'm really impressed with the way the bike rides. Just can't wait to get back home to build more bikes.


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## hardtailkid (Jan 25, 2010)

Wow...this was a good read :thumbsup: And what a beautiful frame!!!


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## Freddy Salgado (Jun 4, 2009)

Hi Ko, Thanks for update. There is a bamboo frame builder in your neck of the woods, Phil Webb, bamboo bike maker.com. could be worth a try for supplies if you are still around Laos. Sounds like you have all the right ingredients to start bamboosero program except the supplies? There are no absolutes working with this material, but the ride of bamboo to me well worth the risk of time & effort knowing the material might crack no matter what you do to help prevent it. Look forward to seeing more of your rigs.



kosayno said:


> This update is long overdue, but when life gets in the way, well, you know how that goes. Few things have changed since the last post. With this being my first frame, it's a little trial and error and you learn as you go. Luckily this error didn't cost me any injured body parts. I've crashed a few times, but on ride #4 a crash with a boulder cracked the wishbone on the driveside. I concluded that the crack was caused by a weak joint of the tubes and poor wrapping of the hemp fiber. The hemp was wrapped unidirectionally and it cracked along the grain (for lack of better terminology). Upon further inspection of all the hemp lugs, I found more cracks along the grain of the hemp fiber. Disappointed with the amount of work I already put into the bike, I decided to just tear down the the whole rear triangle and use carbon fiber for the lugs. I also decided to not go with a wishbone seatstay. So with time passing by quickly and only one week to finish the bike before a big move from Colorado to Laos, I got the bike done just in time, but didn't have time to smoothen out the lugs or give the bike a finish coat.
> 
> Fast forward 3 months since the bike was refinished. Laos has a hot and humid tropical climate and I arrived here in the middle of the monsoon season. So three months without any waterproof protection, the dropouts have started to rust and the bamboo looks a bit weathered. I did my best to dry the bike completely after each rainy and muddy ride, but parking the bike outside in the humidity left it a victim to moisture by condensation.
> 
> ...


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Good to see this thread again, inspiring. Waiting on my bamboo to arrive...

Kosayno, do you remember what species you used?


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## pvd (Jan 4, 2006)

Very cool.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

Drew Diller said:


> Good to see this thread again, inspiring. Waiting on my bamboo to arrive...
> 
> Kosayno, do you remember what species you used?


I used blue hennon bamboo. When I had to repair the seatstays, I used dried tonkin bamboo poles that ended up splitting. I would recommend using fresh cut poles over pre-dried and heat treating it yourself for better quality control.

If you ebay "blue hennon bamboo", you should be able to find them fresh cut. I did a special order from her and picked out the quantity and sizes I wanted.

What kind of bamboo are you waiting for?


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

kosayno said:


> What kind of bamboo are you waiting for?


Blue hennon... by your description, I'm guessing I bought from the same source. She simply shipped by USPS so I have no idea where it is at the moment 

Glad to know I should go ahead and heat treat them all up front. There's going to be something like six bikes worth of material.

Mind if I PM you now and then once I get cracking?


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## crashatrek (Jan 19, 2011)

this is pretty cool always wanted to try to build a frame :thumbsup:


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## Cody Broken (Oct 28, 2006)

kosayno said:


> I first tried the flame torch method like most have. The coloration came out uneven and after 15 minutes for one tube, I was still not dry on the inside, only on the surface. I was like @$#@ this is gonna take forever. I came up with an idea to use my convection oven and baked at 300 degrees for about an hour or until it came out to a nice golden brown. Since I'm here in Denver, I adjusted the baking for altitude just like the Betty Crocker instructions on the Bamboo said to.


How bout a heat gun? I don't have a convection oven so I'll try a heat gun.

You rock brother. Inspiring the hell out of me.


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## [email protected] (Apr 4, 2011)

dude at first i was thinking ........ these guys are nut job crazies . but that bike is sweet i was thinking what other stuff can u make ? tandum ? and will a bamboo bike stand up to 315 lbs ?


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Calfee has made them, so they're certainly possible.

https://www.tandemseast.com/frames/calfee/Bamboo.jpg


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## bboyuseless (Feb 21, 2011)

Do you feel or think there has been any loss of performance (stiffness, strength) by sanding off the top layer of the bamboo? I know this hard to determine exactly without tests but i'm interested in speculation.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

Okay, to speculate, only:

Since it's a composite, a bunch of fibers bundled in a sort of glue, a fair assumption would be that you don't want to disturb the fibers.

I guess I'd take a sample piece, make a very shallow chamfer, and see how thick the skin is, or how deep you can cut before you start cutting fibers.

Here's a pic from my bamboo snow bike progress thread (my seatpost is an aluminum-bamboo-carbon hybrid): http://forums.mtbr.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=602532&d=1300004420

I had taken the skin off and roughed up the surface for the epoxy to grab onto. The skin doesn't appear to be very thick.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

The skin is very thin . Any changes to stiffness or strength would be negligible. I have no idea if Calfee or Boo sands theirs but it's very tough to get anything to stick to unsanded bamboo. Sanding the skin off exposes the grain of the bamboo for a much nicer look IMO. 

Drew-I don't understand what you mean by it's a composite. It's all natural, not a mixture of materials.


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## Jehoshaphat (Mar 18, 2011)

Anything not homogenous like steel, aluminum or titanium is a composite. 

Alloys don't make metals in to composites unless it's something like a "metal matrix composite" which generally would use a ceramic to reinforce the metal matrix. 

A single strand of Kevlar or carbon fiber would not be a composite until you add resin and plastics aren't composites until you add reinforcements. 

A piece of wood has fibers joined by whatever binds trees together and since wood fibers are made of hard walled plant cells, it's not homogenous and pretty fair to call it a composite. The anisotropic strength of wood also makes it fit in better with composites.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

kosayno, cut a cross section of bamboo and look at it -- closely, like with a magnifying glass if needed. Or this image here. There are fibers bunched closely together in a sort of hard paste (lignin). If you can manage it, isolate a single fiber -- it is very easy to shear in half but it is very hard to pull apart.

The point here regarding the skin is that these bundles are packed tighter near the outside of the bamboo - just be mindful not to dig too deep.


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks for correcting me. My definition of a composite was off I guess. 

Drew- As you already know, bamboo is some really strong stuff. I hand to sand halfway through the thickness of the poles for the chainstay in order to clear the end of the crank arms. I didn't notice any loss of strength. I also had to sand completely through the thickness of the chainstay for the tires to clear at the chainstay.


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## Funrover (Oct 4, 2006)

How is the bike doing now? Still a beauty to look at!


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## kosayno (Sep 7, 2006)

Funrover said:


> How is the bike doing now? Still a beauty to look at!


She's hanging as wall art at my cousin's in SE Asia. Airline would've charged me $200 to bring it back home so I just left the frame there. Cheaper for me to build a new frame. I still haven't put together another mtb but have done three road frames for others. Everytime I was gonna make another mtb I kept getting requests so I just kept putting myself on the back burner. I've got plans for five mtb frames and one more road frame before spring.


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