# Just how bad are the RockShox Judy Forks?



## Josh M (Aug 11, 2005)

I'm a new mountain biker, been riding about 4 months. I ride a KHS Alite 2000 hardtail, it came with a RockShox Judy XC 100mm fork. A lot of people have some bad things to say about the Judy forks. Since I've only ridden on the Judy fork maybe I don't know what I'm missing. 

I'm wondering if I will see a dramatic increase in performance and riding enjoyment if I spend about $300-$400 next season to upgrade my fork. Thanks.


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*Thoughts on Judy*

I just looked at the specs on a 2004 Alite, and much like so many other bikes, one place they skimped a bit (in order to keep price down) is on the fork. While the Judy may not be the best fork on the market, it's certainly not the worst. You need to ask yourself, "Am I looking to upgrade because everyone else says my fork sucks"? Do you personally experience the limitations of the fork? If so, I think a sensible upgrade next year is in order. I'm a big Marzocchi proponent and would recommend looking at an MX Pro, or perhaps even one of the Marathon offerings if you can get a deal on a leftover. Will you see an incrrease in performance? I beleieve you will. Will this lead to increaded riding enjoyment? It very well might, if you subscribe to the idea that having better damping up front will lead to a better handling bike. I happen to subscribe to that idea.

Best wishes on your decision.

Bob


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## MTB1986 (Aug 13, 2005)

I had a Manitou Magnum 100mm stock on my bike which was fine at firstand similer to your Judy, but I upgraded to a'03 Manitou Black Elite and the imporved performance in the fork in amazing. My bike is soooo much easier to handle over rough trials, I have A LOT more fun riding my bike with the Black than the Magnum.
I'd say picking up a nice higher-end fork would be money very well spent.
-Nate


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

All Judy's are not created equal (especially the Judy TT).

Of course there was a time when the Judy was a well respected fork, but as time went on they slid down line and ended up at the bottom of the brand. Even so, the one Judy I just can't find any love for (crazy stiction and a dead feel) on bikes in the price range they frequently come spec'd on is the Judy TT. The TT may be better than what you would get on a $300 bike, but at the $500 to $700 range, I would steer (pun intended) away from a bike spec'd with a Judy TT. Other Judy's, I don't have a particular grind with so long as you know they are not their top of the line offering. JMHO.


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## Single Track MTBer (Mar 21, 2005)

My reliegh m-80 which I bought last year has a JUdy tt on it. The only reason I have not replaced is because I am getting a new bike at the end of the year. I am 135lbs so basically that means riding with JUdy tt is almost like riding fully rigid. If had it to do all over I would have replaced the Judy tt this past spring. I didn't know any better, I thought the little bit of travel I have was standard with all forks.


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

I believe that a Marzocchi MX Comp can be found online now for about $250. IMO the difference between the two forks is night and day and would probably make a nice handling difference on your bike. The problem is....putting $250 or $350 into a fork for a bike that might only be worth $600 new (I don't know what your bike cost you). If your bike falls into this catagory then maybe spending this kinda cash on your bike might be a poor decision, after all even with a nice new fork you still have the same frame, shifters, drive train, etc, etc.

I don't mean to put your bike down, I know nothing about it. Just something to condsider.


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## Josh M (Aug 11, 2005)

eatdrinkride said:


> If your bike falls into this catagory then maybe spending this kinda cash on your bike might be a poor decision, after all even with a nice new fork you still have the same frame, shifters, drive train, etc, etc.


I'm really comfortable on my frame and I like the components so I'll be keeping the bike for a while. I don't mind spending the extra cash on a new fork. The Marzocchi MX series looks good so I'll do some reasearch on them.

While we're on the topic, what characteristics seperate a good fork from a bad fork?


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## Tracerboy (Oct 13, 2002)

Josh M said:


> I'm really comfortable on my frame and I like the components so I'll be keeping the bike for a while. I don't mind spending the extra cash on a new fork. The Marzocchi MX series looks good so I'll do some reasearch on them.
> 
> While we're on the topic, what characteristics seperate a good fork from a bad fork?


Depends on what type of riding, but for general trail riding:

1. Weight
2. Good damping: Prevents bottoming out
3. Good rebounding: Prevents pogoing which is big no no for forks
4. Stiffness
5. Adjustability
6. Reliability
There's probably more but thats some of the main ones i can think of.


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## pornstar (Aug 15, 2005)

You can also look at an EXR fork is lower than an MX but is its stil a marzoochi and it has 100mm and coils. It is cheaper but it can handle things like a champ.


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## beeristasty (Jan 22, 2004)

Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on what shape the fork is in. It probably could use an oil change. Maybe new bushings. I'd ride it for a while, and figure out what I'd like it to do better. If tuning couldn't do what I'd like it to do, then it's time to start looking around.

I had a Judy C that came OEM on my '99 Schwinn Moab and it worked well for moderate XC riding. Pretty happy with the performance I got out of it. Never gave me any problems. The only thing I didn't like about it is the heft of it and the cheesy fork boots wouldn't stay down (finally learned how to get them to stay, 4 years after the fact).

I think money would be better spent on clipless pedals and shoes, assuming you don't already have them.


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## Gazz (Jan 15, 2004)

beeristasty said:


> Maybe. Maybe not. It depends on what shape the fork is in. It probably could use an oil change. Maybe new bushings. I'd ride it for a while, and figure out what I'd like it to do better. If tuning couldn't do what I'd like it to do, then it's time to start looking around.
> 
> I had a Judy C that came OEM on my '99 Schwinn Moab and it worked well for moderate XC riding. Pretty happy with the performance I got out of it. Never gave me any problems. The only thing I didn't like about it is the heft of it and the cheesy fork boots wouldn't stay down (finally learned how to get them to stay, 4 years after the fact).
> 
> I think money would be better spent on clipless pedals and shoes, assuming you don't already have them.


How did you get the boots to stay down? I'm building a bike for my bro with old Judy's - the boots are almost an inch short.


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## Koby (Jul 21, 2005)

I have a Judy TT on my 2003 Specialized HR Pro. I guess it has been fine so far, but then again this is my first bike so I probably don't know what I'm missing. One issue that I'm aware of with this fork is that it has elastomer springs which can become quite rigid in colder weather. Since I became addicted to riding this year, I plan on getting out through the fall and hopefully winter too, so I'm keen to upgrade.

Then comes the upgrade trap: just about anything apparently is better than a TT. So you buy the cheapest decent fork, but for just a little more, there is one that is much better. Then a better one after than for just another $70 bucks, and you'll be riding it for a while, so why not just spend that money now and have no regrets? Go for one more upgrade and suddenly you have a great fork, but by the time it's installed it also costs more than your bike did in the first place.

No matter, I am set on getting a Fox Vanilla R (or RLC, it's only a few bucks more ya know ). The reviews are spectacular and I think the brand rocks, I have not heard a single bad comment, not even a luke warm comment. If I'm going to spend $200+ on this, I want to be THRILLED with my new fork, so it's worth it. I think....


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

Gazz said:


> How did you get the boots to stay down? I'm building a bike for my bro with old Judy's - the boots are almost an inch short.


I rebuilt my 97 Judy C several years ago. I went for the long travel kit (80mm aluminum cartridge), Speed Springs and ditched the stock boots for some Lizard Skins fork boots and I have had no problems with them. Haven't had to do much to the fork for a long time (unlike the first couple years I had it with the stock internals).


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## beeristasty (Jan 22, 2004)

I used to just slide it over the little lip where my fingers could reach. They would stay put for about 5 minutes. I finally figured out it was the lip area behind the arch that was the problem. I rotated the boots counter clockwise (or clockwise if you're below the equator) while making sure they were seated where I could reach. They finally worked their way into place. 

It's amazing how something so simple can take forever to figure out. Back then I thought it was impossible to keep them down. Just goes to show what a couple of years and some patience can do!


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## todd_freeride (Aug 9, 2005)

Josh M said:


> I'm a new mountain biker, been riding about 4 months. I ride a KHS Alite 2000 hardtail, it came with a RockShox Judy XC 100mm fork. A lot of people have some bad things to say about the Judy forks. Since I've only ridden on the Judy fork maybe I don't know what I'm missing.
> 
> I'm wondering if I will see a dramatic increase in performance and riding enjoyment if I spend about $300-$400 next season to upgrade my fork. Thanks.


I had a problem with the judy, the lowers launched off mt staunchions while performing a manual. I would definatly replace that fork. I would go with either a Marzocchi MX fork or if you wanted to go cheap get a Marzocchi MZ comp for like 100 bucks off ebay. I would stay away from the EXR series .. I have an EXR comp and it is the biggest pile ever. I have also ridden the EXR pro and it is nothing but a fancy pogostick.


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## anthrax (Oct 27, 2004)

Call_me_Clyde said:


> ...While the Judy may not be the best fork on the market, it's certainly not the worst. You need to ask yourself, "Am I looking to upgrade because everyone else says my fork sucks"? Do you personally experience the limitations of the fork? If so, I think a sensible upgrade next year is in order...
> 
> Best wishes on your decision.
> 
> Bob


I think this is the best advise to come out of this thread. I could not have put any better myself nicley done Clyde.

Like Cldye said are you wanting to change because you see a performance problem or limitation or do you want to change because every one is telling you you should?

I am in a similar boat with my bike (03 Specialized RH FSR-XC) as has been staited the Big S in their infinite wisdom chose to put a Manitou Axil Supper (100mm travel) fork on this bike to save cost. It is truly the weakest component on the bike.

I picked this bike up at the beginning of the 2004 season. When I did my research (after the fact) I found that every one and their dog hated this fork it did not matter what bike it was on. BUT I found that it was fine for the entire first season I had the bike. This year however I have become more aggressive in my riding, and have found some of the issues that others have reported.

Now I am looking to upgrade for the 2006 Season because I have reached the point where I have started to out preform the OEM fork.

I came to this decision on my own terms and I think that it is important that you too come to this decsion on your own terms as well - what ever thoes terms may be

You say you have been riding four months, my advice would be to give the Judy some more time untill you are sure you are upgrading the fork for the right reasons, and not just because people say it sucks.

Remember this it is most important to take things the way YOU find them, not the way other people say you should find them.

This is IMHO

But I do understand the need to have the latest and greatest components on your bike, and if that is what is important to you then change the part.

Good luck,

A


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## SoCalDesertRider (Aug 1, 2005)

I have the stock Judy XC on my 2000 Gary Fisher KaiTai I just bought as an extra bike and have an '05 Manitou Skareb Super 80 on my '01 Klein Attitude, which is my main mountain bike. Both bikes seem to have a similar feel in their handling, as far as the frame and body relationship go. 

We took both bikes out for a ride today and we swapped back and forth between the two bikes on the same trails. I will say that the Judy is not great, but it's not so bad as what I have heard of it. It doesn't use most of it's travel and does bob when standing and pedaling and seems a bit more bouncy over the bumps than the Skareb. I don't know what the adjustments are on the Judy, so I haven't messed with them. The Skareb has the lockout which is great for climbing and easy adjustable damping with the knob on top of the fork. The Skareb is a plusher fork than the Judy and also seems to be lighter weight. I prefer the Skareb over the Judy. 

I don't have plans to replace the Judy with another suspension fork, as I feel it is adequate for general trail riding. If I were to replace it, I would likely move the Skareb from the Klein to the Fisher and get a new fork for the Klein that is a little stiffer side to side, as I can feel it flexing and I can hear the front disc brake pads rub the rotor when the fork flexes. The Fisher doesn't have disc brakes so this isn't an issue. Both forks steer fine, and although the Judy is not as good as the Skareb, it is certainly better than a rigid fork. I think I'll keep the Judy on there a while instead of replacing it with a rigid fork, which was my original idea, since the Fisher is going to be my 'road' bike, but will still do some duty off-road on occasion.

Hope that helps ya out on deciding what to do with the fork on your bike.


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## guppie (Jan 26, 2004)

Don't waste any money just yet! As you said, you are NEW to MTBing... Ride the Judy out for at least one full season or year and wait until you develop more skills and a preference for terrain and to make sure you're willing to keep riding so you can upgrade more things as time passes. Then you'll see where and how your fork is lacking. Yes, the Judy is an entry-level fork, but that's the whole point! I know people who purchase $2000 DH rigs with nasty dual crown forks and don't do any DHing! (I live in FL and trust me, there's not much terrain for a DH rig, unless you travel out of state).

If you feel its time, then to save money, you can always get a better new/used fork from eBay, too!


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## Chris130 (Mar 28, 2005)

Guppy --

Spot on advice... None of us ever entered the field with rock-star devices (that's how we all learn!)... Nothing at all wrong with a Judy starting out ... I did... Taught me a lot about shock maintenance as I grew up and got smarter.... I'd recommend that route.....

Cheers, and Happy Trails....

Hydro


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## Josh M (Aug 11, 2005)

Lots of good advice in this thread. I will wait to see what my Xmas bonus looks like before I make any upgrade decisions.  I was at a bike shop today and I pushed down on the handlebars of some bikes sporting Marzocchi MX Comp and Pro forks. There was so much more give, compared to my Judy fork at home. It must be the air spring vs. the coil/elastomer springs in the Judy.


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## BlueTrain (Jan 24, 2005)

Josh M said:


> Lots of good advice in this thread. I will wait to see what my Xmas bonus looks like before I make any upgrade decisions.  I was at a bike shop today and I pushed down on the handlebars of some bikes sporting Marzocchi MX Comp and Pro forks. There was so much more give, compared to my Judy fork at home. It must be the air spring vs. the coil/elastomer springs in the Judy.


er..no..you're not actually going to feel the difference in performance by merely pushing down on the handlebars in a shop.. thats pretty much just the preload you're feeling there. however, if you do plan on running you'r current bike for a while, upgrading to an mx-comp is a good upgrade. i put one on my hardtail this spring and once dialed in, works fantastic. not only will you notice much better handling in the bumps, you'll have much better handling in the corners and such as the shock itself will not flex nearly as much as the lower end judy. good luck..


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

*Judy*

I had a Judy SL on my 2000 Mongoose NX 7.5. It came stock set in 80mm mode. I converted it to 100mm and it ran without problems for 5 years until I sold the bike. The occasional clean and oil change was all I ever did to it. That said, the Judy TT is a pogo stick with just a coil in it and no damper - a real piece of shite. As for the new forks, my only experience is this - friend just got a new bike with a 80 to 120mm J4 on it. First off road test it started topping out and the lockout sort of stopped working. The rebound adjuster appeared to be working back to front, if at all. The next decent ride (yesterday, 2 hours of dirt roads and rocky singletrack) and it came home spewing oil everywhere.


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## Josh M (Aug 11, 2005)

BlueTrain said:


> not only will you notice much better handling in the bumps, you'll have much better handling in the corners and such as the shock itself will not flex nearly as much as the lower end judy. good luck..


Yeah, these are my main problems with the Judy. Rough over the bumps and the shock flexes a lot over the rough terrain.


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## OldTeen (Jun 14, 2004)

I have an '03 Judy TT which came stock on my 1st MTB. The bike is now my back-up, but I stil ride it alot. After 2 years it has developed bad stiction, but I'm told no rebuild parts are available for '03 TT's (not that it would be worth the cost anyway). LBS says the 03 TT is a disposable fork. I would just ride your fork until it wears out (e.g. stiction probs or it starts to get loose). Try riding other bikes to see what you like best- what you might buy next. You will find a level of equipment "sweet spot" for your riding (i.e. when spending more $$ gives you no real advantage). It could be more cost-effective to get a new bike rather than all the $$ for a new fork (and installation), new derailleurs, brakes, etc. (Ugrade-itis can get real expensive.)

BTW- quality seems to vary alot over the various Judy forks. TT's were entry level, and 00-02's were better than 03-04's.


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## Josh M (Aug 11, 2005)

Well if I am going to be a stupid newb, at least I am going to do it in the Beginner's Corner.  I was looking at my fork the other day and I realized I had never set the sag preset when I bought the bike. Turns out it was set at the stiffest setting. So I then adjusted it to my weight and the fork feels much better going over the bumps.


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## Koby (Jul 21, 2005)

As a matter of follow up, I went ahead and replaced my TT with a Marz MX Comp ETA. The new fork is much much better, but at the same time, the improvements while noticable are on a small scale. Everything is smoother, and more precise, but it is not as if the Judy wasn't doing anything, it was, just not as well as could be done. Again, the big noticeable differences are plushness, steering ability, and let me add that it's about a pound lighter too.


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## Call_me_Clyde (Oct 27, 2004)

*Break in period*



Koby said:


> As a matter of follow up, I went ahead and replaced my TT with a Marz MX Comp ETA. The new fork is much much better, but at the same time, the improvements while noticable are on a small scale. Everything is smoother, and more precise, but it is not as if the Judy wasn't doing anything, it was, just not as well as could be done. Again, the big noticeable differences are plushness, steering ability, and let me add that it's about a pound lighter too.


You'll find that after you've ridden the Marzocchi for it's initial break in period, the plushness will be even more noticable. Be sure to do an oil change on the spring side once it's broke in, too. Marzocchi is infamous for putting in a tad too much oil.

Bob


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## Koby (Jul 21, 2005)

Call_me_Clyde said:


> You'll find that after you've ridden the Marzocchi for it's initial break in period, the plushness will be even more noticable. Be sure to do an oil change on the spring side once it's broke in, too. Marzocchi is infamous for putting in a tad too much oil.
> 
> Bob


Will do, Bob. Thanks for the advice.


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