# supplements, vitatmins, etc



## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

So I had quit taking ALL vitamins/supplements after reading a health book by Steve Jobs' doctor.

In recent Men's Journal, it stated if you take only 3 supplements they should be vitamin D, magnesium and fish oil. So I take the last 2 now. My family eats fish max twice a week (tilapia and salmon).

Any feedback/comments?


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

also, the article stated that the soils are severely nutrient deficient nowadays. So many ppl in USA are magnesium deficient.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Ideally you'd get everything you need through diet but these days it's not likely. Get blood work done and see what you are lacking and go from there. Fish oil is definitely a good one. Vitamin D if you aren't outside a lot or during the winter. Get checked. That's the only way to know. Otherwise you're just shooting blind hoping to hit the target.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

asookazian said:


> So I had quit taking ALL vitamins/supplements after reading a health book by Steve Jobs' doctor.
> 
> In recent Men's Journal, it stated if you take only 3 supplements they should be vitamin D, magnesium and fish oil. So I take the last 2 now. My family eats fish max twice a week (tilapia and salmon).
> 
> Any feedback/comments?


Not exactly a peer reviewed and vetted source.

Way too much variability in soils to make a blanket statement. Magnesium is also required for plant growth, so a mg deficient soil would not have a healthy crop and would look sick. Commercial growers regularly test their soils, any deficiency is immediately treated or mitigated. Your backyard garden may be deficient, produce obtained from a large supplier is probably not.

Still a lot of controversy over D. The revised DRI is still not settled. If you have a triglyceride problem fish oil may be a good idea. Otherwise, meh. Won't hurt, may not help. Use one of the many food trackers to track your diet for a couple of weeks (2-3 days is not enough for a good snapshot of your diet). Then you have an accurate picture of adjustments needed.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I cut waaaaaaay back on my supplements and am now down to Orange Triad multis (2x a day), and ON whey protein (I'm sure the nutritional purists in the crowd are cringing). I throw in Omega 3-6-9s now and then as well. That's it.

I have lost about 10 pounds over 3 months (much of it water retention from creatine), but have gained huge in other areas... LOL. All good - I can climb like a billy goat now and yeah...other advantages too.

These cupboard doors have not been opened in a while...


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

I still say for normal person doing sport for fun (not pro athlete) normal food is more then enough to get all you need. I quit using all these things next day after I quit my pro xc skiing career, and I live quite fine for 15 years, still doing some 15+hours/week (mostly) endurance sport. Regular doctor checks (including blood) are still giving perfect results, so I think I'm quite ok  I don't have any sport drinks during trainings, just water works more then good enough, no supplements after/before sessions, just normal food. But I admit, I try to eat healthy as much as possible, which means no Mcdonalds or other fast food/processed food crap for me.


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## Abagrizzli (May 28, 2012)

Vitamin D because we all lack of it and fish oil, but just because I had high triglyceride level. Fish oil is not proven to be beneficial for any other problem - only high cholesterol and triglyceride. I don't think normal healthy human being with balanced diet need any supplements. Unless of course you live at the North Pole (like my wife's parents), and then supplements are a must.


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## rooze (Oct 22, 2014)

It really depends on what/how you eat. Most people's diets of heavily processed foods are barely classified as 'food', in a nutritional sense; so adding supplements might be beneficial.

But if you eat 'real' food in balanced proportions with plenty of variety, then you should be getting all your body needs - unless of course you have some specific deficiency which might be addresses by supplementation.

I take Symbiolean for energy and reduced water retention, but that's all nowadays.


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## T-Rob (Jul 17, 2014)

asookazian said:


> So I had quit taking ALL vitamins/supplements after reading a health book by Steve Jobs' doctor.
> 
> In recent Men's Journal, it stated if you take only 3 supplements they should be vitamin D, magnesium and fish oil. So I take the last 2 now. My family eats fish max twice a week (tilapia and salmon).
> 
> Any feedback/comments?


As stated it really depends on how your diet is. If you are eating plenty and living a normal lifestyle then I'm sure that's plenty. But if you live a extremely physical lifestyle/work out many many hours during the week you may want to look into other stuff. I'm no expert of course and have just more recently got more serious about obtaining a higher level of fitness. I've been taking whey protein and then just your typical daily multi-vitamin. The protein has definitely helped in muscle growth.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Also consider that orthorexia (excessive concern over eating properly) is now considered a real eating disorder.


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

Vitamins Prevent Cancer? Not So Fast. - David B. Agus, M.D.

"In my book The End of Illness, I make a strong case against them. And for good reason: all of the data thus far has pointed to the potential hazards of taking a daily multivitamin and loading up on supplements, especially those that deliver mega-doses."

"I was the office manager in the Renal Section."

"The data demonstrate no benefit to taking omega 3 supplements. There is data that eating cold water fish have a benefit!"


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## asookazian (Mar 3, 2015)

I was watching a wolf documentary the other day on netflix. It says a wolf eats 20 lbs of meat per sitting/prey kill. So that's roughly equivalent to 80 hamburger patties. 

1) how does that fit in their stomach?

2) don't they need additional nutrition? I know mtn lions are carnivores as well. What happened to a balanced diet? What if we only ate meat every day?


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

asookazian said:


> I was watching a wolf documentary the other day on netflix. It says a wolf eats 20 lbs of meat per sitting/prey kill. So that's roughly equivalent to 80 hamburger patties.
> 
> 1) how does that fit in their stomach?
> 
> 2) don't they need additional nutrition? I know mtn lions are carnivores as well. What happened to a balanced diet? What if we only ate meat every day?


That's a good diet if you don't mind that your expected lifespan is 7 years.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

asookazian said:


> ...1) how does that fit in their stomach?
> 
> 2) don't they need additional nutrition? I know mtn lions are carnivores as well. What happened to a balanced diet? What if we only ate meat every day?


They have a few million years of evolution as a carnivore. That IS a balanced diet to them. For example, canids and felines do not need vitamin C in their diet. Their bodies manufacture it, primates and humans do not. We need to consume C.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Some interesting info about supplements in this interactive article which compares the dosages for some of the most common supplements (like Vit B12, D, C etc ) to the amount of nutrients available in everyday foods.. Also watch the video.

Are Health Supplements Too Much of a Good Thing? | FRONTLINE


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

Steve Jobs' doctor? Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't his patient die prematurely? If we just take a look at one vitamin....lets pick vitamin C, there are over 35,000 double blind placebo peer reviewed published studies on vitamin C alone. Arguably making it the most studied and understood compound in human history. 

There has been an anti vitamin campaign dating all the way back to Linus Pauling who was possibly the smartest person to ever grace earth. The only person to win 2 undivided Nobel Prizes and a man who Einstein immediately realized understood the chemical/physical world better then himself. 

Lets not propagate this nonsense for we already have the Codex bill passed in our own country. Written, sponsored & pushed through by big pharma. We are on a trajectory of needing a prescription and paying exorbitant prices (technically legal now through Codex) for vitamins/minerals like has been happening in other "1st world" countries.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

cyclelicious said:


> Some interesting info about supplements in this interactive article which compares the dosages for some of the most common supplements (like Vit B12, D, C etc ) to the amount of nutrients available in everyday foods.. Also watch the video.
> 
> Are Health Supplements Too Much of a Good Thing? | FRONTLINE


I recently read a couple of papers out of the UK comparing the nutritional profile of modern cultivated fruits and vegetables versus the wild uncultivated originals. Not as bad as one would think. Some nutrients have increased, some decreased, but the common among all was fiber content of cultivated varieties are markedly lower across the board.
Another study looked at dietary nutrition among the few remaining non-westernized hunter-gatherer cultures left in the world. After adjusting for deaths from disease or trauma, their lifespans are comparable to, or longer than developed nations. One commonality was the high fiber consumption (over 100g/kg per day) and the high protein intake, with over 50% of daily calories from proteins, including animal protein. But these were game and locally caught fish, both of which have a vastly different nutrient content than farm raised. In summary -- for good health, eat more game and wild fish, and less farm meat. It may be better for you than a pure vegan diet.


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## Maizie88 (Apr 29, 2014)

I had always taken a multivitamin until the naturopath I seen got me to compare the amount of each vitamin compared to what they are on their own. You get such small amounts of each in a multivitamin compared to taking a few main ones on their own. I now take Magnesium and VitB-12, but want to start taking fish oil. I never have much energy.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Beer... full of micro-nutrients 

-----------------------------------------------------------
#1 resolution... Ride it like I stole it!!


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> If we just take a look at one vitamin....lets pick vitamin C, there are over 35,000 double blind placebo peer reviewed published studies on vitamin C alone. Arguably making it the most studied and understood compound in human history.


The quantity of studies does not make it a beneficial supplement. After all those studies, vitamin C supplementation remains controversial to my knowledge.



> There has been an anti vitamin campaign dating all the way back to Linus Pauling who was possibly the smartest person to ever grace earth. The only person to win 2 undivided Nobel Prizes and a man who Einstein immediately realized understood the chemical/physical world better then himself.


He was a brilliant guy, but that doesn't mean he was right about vitamin C.



> Lets not propagate this nonsense for we already have the Codex bill passed in our own country. Written, sponsored & pushed through by big pharma. We are on a trajectory of needing a prescription and paying exorbitant prices (technically legal now through Codex) for vitamins/minerals like has been happening in other "1st world" countries.


Sounds like pure hysteria. If you have any references about this Codex bill, please provide.

Codex Alimentarius : snopes.com


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Beer, cheetos, and beef sticks... breakfast of champions!


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

When I started cutting back calories/portion sizes to lose 15 pounds and get to racing weight, I added a daily multi-vitamin. This particular vitamin has good reviews and doesn't exceed 100% of my daily RDA so I'm sure I'm not getting any toxicity from overdosing. It's just a little insurance that I'm getting what my body needs to function at it's best when I'm cutting calories.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> The quantity of studies does not make it a beneficial supplement. After all those studies, vitamin C supplementation remains controversial to my knowledge.
> 
> He was a brilliant guy, but that doesn't mean he was right about vitamin C.
> 
> ...


I think one would need to suspend any faith in the scientific method or even logic to flippantly discount the culmination of 35,000 peer reviewd published studies. Call me crazy but here's an idea, how about actually reading some of them and then possibly adding something of value.

Thanks for the highly esteemed snopes link...very insightful. Expensive prescriptions for vitamins and the codex bill is reality not hysteria. But again instead of posting some trivial link how about reading it. 
Bill S.510


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

WHALENARD said:


> I think one would need to suspend any faith in the scientific method or even logic to flippantly discount the culmination of 35,000 peer reviewd published studies. Call me crazy but here's an idea, how about actually reading some of them and then possibly adding something of value.


I'm not going to argue your point about vitamin C, since you have not made a point other than that there have been lots of studies. So?

Linus Pauling's conjectures about vitamin C have been largely refuted. Sure he was brilliant in his understanding of the nature of chemical bonds, but not in his understanding of vitamin C.



> Thanks for the highly esteemed snopes link...very insightful. Expensive prescriptions for vitamins and the codex bill is reality not hysteria. But again instead of posting some trivial link how about reading it.
> Bill S.510


You said


> We are on a trajectory of needing a prescription and paying exorbitant prices (technically legal now through Codex) for vitamins/minerals


That IS hysteria. The bill has been law now almost 6 years, so do you have any examples, after 6 years, of how this bill has resulted in needing prescriptions for vitamins, or exorbitant prices?

The Snopes article is accurate and Snopes is a respected source. If you can point to a specific inaccuracy than do so, with citations of course.

The bill is hundreds of pages long, with most parts of simply "strikethrough and replace" statements referring to dozens of other laws. So to fully study it you would not only have to read hundreds of pages in the bill but also thousands of pages in dozens of other bills to which it refers. So don't tell me to read something you have never read, and don't tell me to provide "something of value", when you have not.


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## WHALENARD (Feb 21, 2010)

smilinsteve said:


> I'm not going to argue your point about vitamin C, since you have not made a point other than that there have been lots of studies. So?
> 
> Linus Pauling's conjectures about vitamin C have been largely refuted. Sure he was brilliant in his understanding of the nature of chemical bonds, but not in his understanding of vitamin C.
> 
> ...


Linus Pauling...."conjecture" on vit C....ah ok Steve. I suppose the other 35,000 studies don't fit your opinion either. My original point on vit C was in context of the original post. Not sure vit C supplementation being controversial according to you warrants a further point other than pointing out there is a wealth of information to the contrary.

I like how when people debate on here it turns into accusations of someone's education, or training or what they may or may not be up to speed on to support their point of view knowing full well they have no idea of the former. Always strikes me as narcissisticaly childish. What I'm I supposed to do here...defend myself??? Claim it's been an area of interest of mine for 30 years, claim I've read over 100k studies, claim my wife is a patent layer who specialized in pharmcuetical patents for many years & bills such as S5.10 make for good dinner conversation? Well ok then. And BTW EU countries such as Denmark did move to compley with codex Alimentarius by banning things such as marmite and fortified foods. You did indeed need a prescription for vitamins. I'm not certain of the current status and purely conjecture on my part but would guess the gaining market share of health & fitness products helped push back some. That's not to say my use of the word trajectory is not accurate. Seems weekly or even daily periodic studies ate retracted due to the never ending shady tactics of big pharma.

"Don't tell me" haha! Good luck, see ya later


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## Zomby Woof (MCM700) (May 23, 2004)

All that stuff is a waste of money. You get it all from the food you eat.


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## dave54 (Jul 1, 2003)

Zomby Woof (MCM700) said:


> All that stuff is a waste of money. You get it all from the food you eat.


That would be true, if everyone ate right.

We all try to eat healthier, but lets face it, we all slide every once in a while.

OTOH some people have a diagnosed deficiency or need more of certain nutrients due to a medical condition.


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