# Please show me your ReaLLy StRaNge CrAzY Forks



## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Just for fun, funky, useless/marvelous crazy/clever forks, No Manippoes and rockshock do not count...

here are some from my photo collection.



























Rigid ones are welcome too.


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## disease (Nov 27, 2007)

Do Amps and Girvins counts as strange and crazy?


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

disease said:


> Do Amps and Girvins counts as strange and crazy?


Not Really Not even Lawills...

well maybe things like this.









leading links like this are fun.









Even "Landing gears" are cool.


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## steelhead (Jul 8, 2004)

@ patineto

Does frames seem to be out there aswell!!?? Any more pictures?


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## felixdelrio (May 27, 2006)

*Funk*

Funk!


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Okay, I really really hope that I'm not "outing" someone's dream eBay find. But the fork (and rear suspension) have to take the cake for odd design. I'm pretty sure I can guess why this never took off.

Pics here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150200010057


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

I could have had one of those for free this summer had I paid closer attention to when the bike store that had one in for service was throwing abandoned bikes into the dumpster. They actually sold thousands of them and they actually worked quite well for the price. Moultons use equally goofy rubber sprung shock linkages and forks.

http://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

steelhead said:


> @ patineto
> 
> Does frames seem to be out there aswell!!?? Any more pictures?


Sadlly No, actually the frames and forks don't even exist anymore since my friend JP has the tendency to be a little Hyper happy with his Band saw.

Only thing I can tell you is that the frames and the forks were made in about 1985,

Way before the Kestrel full suspension bike with forks made with the help of bontrager in 1988 and even paul turner RS-1 shock (actually JP and Turner used to work on a motorcycle shop togheter)


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

felixdelrio said:


> Funk!


Oh yeah I remember this forks,,,

Any photos of the complete bike,? I love the Funk of the Funk's


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

laffeaux said:


> Okay, I really really hope that I'm not "outing" someone's dream eBay find. But the fork (and rear suspension) have to take the cake for odd design. I'm pretty sure I can guess why this never took off.
> 
> Pics here:
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150200010057


Wow Thanks Laffeaux that thing is so Freaking Twisted....

Thanks for the Link, I found some *Crestone* Information, but not one picture...


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> I could have had one of those for free this summer had I paid closer attention to when the bike store that had one in for service was throwing abandoned bikes into the dumpster. They actually sold thousands of them and they actually worked quite well for the price. Moultons use equally goofy rubber sprung shock linkages and forks.
> 
> https://www.alexmoulton.co.uk/


Oh Man I love Moulton's I use to have three of them I only have one left..

They are incredible, super rigid, super fast, actually the world Speed record holder for the 20inch wheel (2 wheel Human Power vehicle Association) was a Moulton that use a Mylar fairing and a licra tail

Check this photo.









here is the *To the site were I got* the picture from.

Here are my Moulton's.

The two "stowaway" I end up selling









The day I was taking one to the Veloswap.








when I got this.









I really Like this bike, Yes the forks, well the shock absorbers are weird, but the bike is a piece of art.









Actually this Cargo bike my friend Dave made in 1985 is very funky.









This thing Rules, is super stable and can carry a ton of stuff.


















Dave riding it.









This one I did not like that much.









The aluminum plate is suppose to act like a "Damper'









But end up making the Steering very shaky and almost scary, again this bike was build in the 80's









very strange Rear end too


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## disease (Nov 27, 2007)

Remember The Shockster bolt on rear suspension upgrade? It attached to a hard tail frame's rear dropout and brake bosses, giving you instant full suspension.

Link:
http://www.mtbtr.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4426


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

disease said:


> Remember The Shockster bolt on rear suspension upgrade? It attached to a hard tail frame's rear dropout and brake bosses, giving you instant full suspension.
> 
> Somebody post a picture of it please.


This swiss guy Phillipe Perakis or something like that, won the downhill world cup in the early 90' with something like that..

I install a few of them (Flip the fork backwards and listo) but man they suck big time..

I can not even remenber the brand, not to memorable for sure..


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

patineto said:


> This swiss guy Phillipe Perakis or something like that, won the downhill world cup in the early 90' with something like that..
> 
> I install a few of them (Flip the fork backwards and listo) but man they suck big time..
> 
> I can not even remenber the brand, not to memorable for sure..


ATZ? I remember that bike well too.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> ATZ? I remember that bike well too.


Thanks senor..

I still have nightmares about them.:madman:


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## kingsting (Sep 18, 2007)

disease said:


> Remember The Shockster bolt on rear suspension upgrade? It attached to a hard tail frame's rear dropout and brake bosses, giving you instant full suspension.
> 
> Link:
> http://www.mtbtr.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4426


Hey! I have one of those that's brand new, still in the box. A while back, a guy was selling them at a swap meet for $20.00. He had a few of them. I had to pick one up.


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## zelig (Nov 23, 2007)

This reminds me of the BMW Telelever.


patineto said:


>


Wasn't the Girvin similar to this? Anyone know why this design fell out of favor?


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

zelig said:


> This reminds me of the BMW Telelever.
> 
> Wasn't the Girvin similar to this? Anyone know why this design fell out of favor?


I'm not sure why it fell out of favor. Maybe because Rockshox, Manitou, and Fox weren't using the design.  Seriously though, I don't know. I think they had some funky action when doing certain drop offs. I doubt that's the reason though. Maybe excess cost? 

I have a pretty rare old linkage fork in storage that I'll try to dig out and get some photos of.


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## PCC (Sep 5, 2005)

Noleen!

Didn't the early Noleens and Look Fournales use bushings instead of bearings, which caused problems?


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## 1 cog frog (Dec 21, 2004)

*Inverted forks*

I seem to remember an inverted fork by Halson or Ralson (something like that?) in Mountain Bike Magazine in the late 90's. I have no pics, but might have the ad somewhere. Not Super strange, but a different design than what was popular at the time. Had a funky tubular brake arch and I always wondered how it worked with rim brakes? Wouldn't the wheel move up and down past the brake pads? Anyway, anyone have pics of that? I may have to open up my box of old mags.

Edit:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=halson+inversion+fork

Looks like 1st Flight has one on a mantis, pretty interesting to me. Anyone ever ride one?

frog


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## grawbass (Aug 23, 2004)

1 cog frog said:


> I seem to remember an inverted fork by Halson or Ralson (something like that?) in Mountain Bike Magazine in the late 90's. I have no pics, but might have the ad somewhere. Not Super strange, but a different design than what was popular at the time. Had a funky tubular brake arch and I always wondered how it worked with rim brakes? Wouldn't the wheel move up and down past the brake pads? Anyway, anyone have pics of that? I may have to open up my box of old mags.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> ...


It was called the Halston Inversion and yeah the wheel would move up and down past the pads so you could only use the brakes on a smooth surface unless you were good at timing the bumps.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Linkage, or Parallelogram forks never curried much favor in the bicycle industry. However there are some that like(d) them for their needs. AMP's and Girvins wore out at the pivots in a hurry due to the use of bushings as previously stated. The Fournales always used bearings for the pivots and seem to hold up quite well.


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## donk (Jan 28, 2004)

Saw an interlock anti dive fork as I was walking around Toronto today, no camera with me though. It was on what appeared to be a rocky mountain blizzard. 

This spot attracts nice bikes, I have also seen old merlins and ibis locked up in this neighbourhood.


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## Sideknob (Jul 14, 2005)

1 cog frog said:


> I seem to remember an inverted fork by Halson or Ralson (something like that?) in Mountain Bike Magazine in the late 90's. I have no pics, but might have the ad somewhere. Not Super strange, but a different design than what was popular at the time. Had a funky tubular brake arch and I always wondered how it worked with rim brakes? Wouldn't the wheel move up and down past the brake pads? Anyway, anyone have pics of that? I may have to open up my box of old mags.


I had this version on my Balance AL450 circa 1995.

https://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Front_Shock/Halson_Shock.jpg

They were basically an elastomer fork with about three different durometers in them, on a skewer. There was no preload adjustment on them at all.

The lowers were slotted to allow the brakes to move with the rim. The boots still featured the concertina section up the top, which was odd as the top section didn't move. So the lower section that needed to concertina in and out just sort of bunched up as the fork travelled. They always felt a bit "floppy" in the steering department, although the 2.5 inches of travel felt OK.

I ended up swapping them for a set of Mag21's and was happier with them, and wasn't as self conscious about my odd forks. :thumbsup:


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

grawbass said:


> It was called the Halston Inversion and yeah the wheel would move up and down past the pads so you could only use the brakes on a smooth surface unless you were good at timing the bumps.


No No senor you are totally crazy..:madman:

I still have a set of the originals black ones and three sets of the next generation (the pretty ones all anodize with the translucent fork boots)

The brake bosses are actually mounted to the lowers (upside down forks) and the upper have a slot, so they can move up and down, Brilliant design and really well manufacture too (som well the company flop for lack of revenue).

I take pictures tomorrow when I'm back home..

Those forks Rule..:thumbsup:


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

I rode the Halson forks. There were two versions, the first one was all matte black with a heavy cast alloy brake arch and all the offset in the crown. It had 1.9" of travel and was far more rigid in my experience than a MAG21, but would have been a lot better had it been equipped with a more stout arch (which incidentally would have increased braking power, too). It also had pretty flimsy dropouts. But bump absorption and damping was better than that of a Quadra, and disassembly was a snap.
The second version was called the Inversion PDS, and I am sure DeeEight will be able to chime in about this fork. It had an incredibly stout tubular brake arch that offered a solid platform for whatever brake you chose, all the offset was in the dropouts- this meant it required less effort to turn the fork- and it had 2.5" of travel, air damped. The crown was hollow and machine out from the inside with no cutouts on the bottom of the crown. There was no preload adjustment. They rode well, but the damper rod on mine broke. A well-conceived fork that came too late, and had some reliability issues.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

zelig said:


> This reminds me of the BMW Telelever.
> 
> Wasn't the Girvin similar to this? Anyone know why this design fell out of favor?


Not even close..

I love for pictures and I show you the difference


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## uphiller (Jan 13, 2004)

Wasn't there a linkage for attached to the frame of some British full suspension bike? The name of the company totally escapes me.


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

uphiller said:


> Wasn't there a linkage for attached to the frame of some British full suspension bike? The name of the company totally escapes me.


Is this what you were thinking of? Designed by Jon Whyte, ex-formula 1 sus designer...also designed the Quad-link for Marin.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

uphiller said:


> I rode the Halson forks. There were two versions, the first one was all matte black with a heavy cast alloy brake arch and all the offset in the crown. It had 1.9" of travel and was far more rigid in my experience than a MAG21, but would have been a lot better had it been equipped with a more stout arch (which incidentally would have increased braking power, too). It also had pretty flimsy dropouts. But bump absorption and damping was better than that of a Quadra, and disassembly was a snap.
> The second version was called the Inversion PDS, and I am sure DeeEight will be able to chime in about this fork. It had an incredibly stout tubular brake arch that offered a solid platform for whatever brake you chose, all the offset was in the dropouts- this meant it required less effort to turn the fork- and it had 2.5" of travel, air damped. The crown was hollow and machine out from the inside with no cutouts on the bottom of the crown. There was no preload adjustment. They rode well, but the damper rod on mine broke. A well-conceived fork that came too late, and had some reliability issues.


I Love mine, never had problems with them (the black one, is so worn out is not even funny, but still works fine, I will love to see that on a rockshok or manippo)

but I can see how they can fail, after all many years of R&D had gone by since then.

You guy do know that manitou and rockshock paid Royalties to halson for the way their elastomer stacks were attach

To me was a sad day when this guys when again (I talk to them at interbike two years and they were Freaking Brilliant MIT Engeniers)

Then again this Industry is a 10 to 1 industry (10% cost of production vis Retail) and this guys did not even reach 50%-50% so they just when away from lack of revenue.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

The Spaniers are Kicking Ass on the *Strange suspension designs*

I never Ever see this.









The rear suspension as usual is Useless but very interesting none the less


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## nordstadt (Nov 26, 2005)

These frames and forks are Italien not Spain: Ancilotti










Giovanna Bonazzi was WC in DH '93 and also rode some speed Records on One of these weird "things" labeld as "Kästle"



















Chris


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

nordstadt said:


> These frames and forks are Italien not Spain: Ancilotti
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks Chris I was just saying that the guys at the forum in SPAIN Have a lot of funky stuff on their posting, that is all.

Now I remenber seeing Giovanna bike on some magazine long time ago..

Any bigger pictures..!?!?


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## badbushido (Jan 4, 2006)

ATZ Descente by Francis Glatz.
A swiss early suspension design.
If my memories are correct, Philippe Perakis won the Mammoth Kamikaze with the earlier version below (Does anyone remember the year of the first european win in Mammoth?)


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

*1985 mcs rigid fork*

here's a scan of an old mcs 'dominator' with their quirky fork. this shot also qualifies for 'show me your crazy hat' forums and 'turn around stupid, you're about to spend the night on grand mesa' forums.......


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## steelhead (Jul 8, 2004)

Muddy Fox had a weird design a couple of years ago. It looked a lot like the Swiss one above. I think the front and rear suspension where linked in a way.


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## jeff (Jan 13, 2004)

*I hope he had matches.*

Thats a long cold ride home. By the way, great pic.
J



surly357 said:


> here's a scan of an old mcs 'dominator' with their quirky fork. this shot also qualifies for 'show me your crazy hat' forums and 'turn around stupid, you're about to spend the night on grand mesa' forums.......


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## whoda*huck (Feb 12, 2005)

Care to share the story behind the pic?
Did he turn around? Spend the night out? Is he you (are you he)?


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## surly357 (Jan 19, 2006)

*brrrr....*



whodaphuck said:


> Care to share the story behind the pic?
> Did he turn around? Spend the night out? Is he you (are you he)?


 not me, i took the picture. it gets dark & cold really early in late october at almost 10,000'. for some reason he did have matches (probably for the shop woodstove), and i had a bag of peanut m&ms. we realized our mistake but just too late and rode out the next morning. it was uncomfortable but a good experience- i don't really worry too much about getting caught out since then.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

grawbass said:


> It was called the Halston Inversion and yeah the wheel would move up and down past the pads so you could only use the brakes on a smooth surface unless you were good at timing the bumps.


Bzzzzzt Wrong! But thanks for playing...

Halson forks had a slotted upper leg which the brace was bolted thru to the inner lower legs, so when the fork compressed the brace and brake studs moved upwards with the sliders and thus the brake pads were always next to the rim. To protect these slots the forks had full length boots (transparent on the Inversion PDS, solid black on the original Inversions) which fit tightly around the brace mounting bolts and slot and kept dirt/water away from the bushings.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

patineto said:


> Not even close..
> 
> I love for pictures and I show you the difference


Will this do...


















They fell out of favour because for a given wheel travel, a linkage fork like this tends to be taller in axle to crown distance than a similar travel telescopic fork. Also its harder to keep the bushings sealed and mountain bikers are typically morons when it comes to performing "regular" maintenance let alone keeping their bikes clean after rides. On the plus side, they tend to have tons of wheel clearance so if they had only continued design work/production of the lowers to account for I.S. disc tabs, a crosslink would readily accept a 650B or 29er wheel. Oh and because they ARE dual-crown forks, they transfer more load stresses to the headtube of the frame and not all bikes have the necessary reserves of headtube strength to withstand the extra abuse.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Upss I was soppose to write

*I LOOK for pictures and I show you the difference*

This is pretty close to a Telelever suspension system, except on motorcycles like the BMW's the shock is located at about 2/3 of the distance from the frame pivot point.









ps: I'm being riding and even Building BMW motos for years and this set up offer excellent antidive features, but also certain shortcomings in terms of suspension travel do to the geometry..

take a look at the similarities
on this GS1200









This is Actually not a Exact "Telelever suspension" Since the upper linkage also alter the angle of the forks (move them backwards at the axle.well typically the forks move on a Liner fashion from the upper triple clamps.











DeeEight said:


> Will this do...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Most of the "Paralelogram" (not really "Paralel" since they move on a arch do to the different length of the arms are sometimes call "Hozack" front ends..
Were crap mostly do to poor manufacturing procedures and cost cutting in terms of materials, like the stupid bushing on the Gyrvin forks, but if done right they can perform pretty well and be really long lasting.









Hozack front end system on a BMW K1200 Rs.


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## xy9ine (Feb 2, 2005)

a handful of years ago (~2000, maybe), there was a fully cnc'd & polished single-sided linkage fork shown at interbike. i don't recall the name, but it was an amazing piece of machining (or so i thought at the time). anybody know what this was?


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

xy9ine said:


> a handful of years ago (~2000, maybe), there was a fully cnc'd & polished single-sided linkage fork shown at interbike. i don't recall the name, but it was an amazing piece of machining (or so i thought at the time). anybody know what this was?


This One, I even start a whole post somewhere on this forum.









I look for it, sorry I forgot to post the picture on this topic too, I do think is pretty amazing piece of work, very smart design (yeah kind of "Ugly" but very smart)


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## xy9ine (Feb 2, 2005)

yep, that's the one. looks a bit scary to ride, but i love the aesthetics. it'd make a nice piece of sculpture.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

xy9ine said:


> yep, that's the one. looks a bit scary to ride, but i love the aesthetics. it'd make a nice piece of sculpture.


Really I find it really Ugly (maybe anodize grey or something not so shinny) but I admire the understanding of the structure and suspension know how involve to make it.

ps: I'm sure is very flexible side to side.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Lets see here are some other ones I have found in no particular order.

ATZ rear end I believe









I never see this one before.



























Pace "Dual brake" Tandem forks.









Yeah Look at the Fork.









Mister Lefty eat you heart out.









Some are not so Strange but pretty none the less.


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## cuneyt (Aug 21, 2007)

My 50 cent: https://www.mtbtr.com/gezi_yayin/yayin.asp?kayitno=932

Lots of interesting bikes. Took the pictures at an exhibition in Vienna.

Also a Laiti Mono:



















A quite extraordinary use of carbon:



















A two-sided bike 










A different approach to "high-speed"


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

cuneyt said:


> My 50 cent:
> 
> A quite extraordinary use of carbon:


Oh man that is so Exellent, thanks for the picture, the link & efford.[/QUOTE]









[/QUOTE]

Oh wow a "Checker PIG" that is so cool is being years since I see one..

that bike was actually "Best suspension bike in the World" fro one month at MTBAction, until something a little better came out next month.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

cuneyt said:


> My 50 cent: http://www.mtbtr.com/gezi_yayin/yayin.asp?kayitno=932


Wow that site is a ton of fun, thanks for the link


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## disease (Nov 27, 2007)

surly357 said:


> here's a scan of an old mcs 'dominator' with their quirky fork. this shot also qualifies for 'show me your crazy hat' forums and 'turn around stupid, you're about to spend the night on grand mesa' forums.......


Isn't that Father Bear from The Berenstein Bears?


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## tl1 (Dec 21, 2003)

*Nukeproof Reactor*

From around 1994-95.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

tl1 said:


> From around 1994-95.


Wow I don't know if it is anygood but is for sure really pretty..

What a clever way to house the shock inside the steer tube..

If you ever sell that frame and fork, let me know I want it just because is cool, but for now take more pictures of the details if you can.

Thanks is awesome thinking right there.

Thanks for showing.


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## bcd (Jan 27, 2004)

doing some research found this thread thought i would add a fork or two i made.

this was a angled fork so it aligned the impact to the stanchion sliders.
made from mc mahn SP? parts.










dc version


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

bcd said:


> doing some research found this thread thought i would add a fork or two i made.
> 
> this was a angled fork so it aligned the impact to the stanchion sliders.
> made from mc mahn SP? parts.
> ...


Alex what a honor to have you around, you are a absolute Pioneer in so many ways..

Thanks for posting on this humble Thread.


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## batvette (Dec 10, 2006)

patineto said:


> Alex what a honor to have you around, you are a absolute Pioneer in so many ways..
> 
> Thanks for posting on this humble Thread.


Love the picture....

"And he gets his R & D by racing semi-pro downhill....." The way real men did it in those days, no inflatable space age material cartoon uber-man crash pads, just yer bare elbows and knees, with yer flesh hangin' off... AND WE LIKED IT.

Only thing was "hucking" it off a 30ft drop was a suicidal course miscalculation and nobody saw it on youtube the next monday.

Nice thread.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

A blast from the past Moto Style.

The legend is that Honda purchase the patent rights (about 25/30 years ago) for this Fork and Bin it next to all the Indiana Jones treasures.

The original version was made with 4130Cromolly Tubes, this one is HRC are their finest all CNC out of billet, actually i don't think is as laterally rigid as the tubular version but I guess they know better.


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## toyota200x (Sep 9, 2005)

I love this thread. So many amazing pieces of history.


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## Staffan (Sep 18, 2005)

*A bit long?*









Philippe Peraklis with his Cilo with AZT add-on suspension.With that horribly long rear end, he had to use an inverted 150 mm stem to get some weight over the front wheel and be able to steer the thing! The suspension could be locked from the handlebars, useful in Kaprun where riders had to sprint half a mile on tarmac, since the finish-line was in the center of the village in the early years of the famous DH-run.


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

I also like the feedback from linkage forks and trying it on various bike in my collections but my favorits are Whyte and Look VTT's best linkage forks IMO.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

fjyang said:


> I also like the feedback from linkage forks and trying it on various bike in my collections but my favorits are Whyte and Look VTT's best linkage forks IMO.


Wow nice collection, can you please take more detail pictures of the Linkages, specially on the "Whyte" that "Telelever" looks very well design, deeper riding impression will be also nice to hear.

About the Slingshot, well lets say some people around here will be a little....:madman:


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## fjyang (May 4, 2007)

The BMW's front paralever design were one of a kind, Whyte's were similar at a glance but not quite the same.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Staffan said:


> View attachment 368294
> 
> 
> Philippe Peraklis with his Cilo with AZT add-on suspension.With that horribly long rear end, he had to use an inverted 150 mm stem to get some weight over the front wheel and be able to steer the thing! The suspension could be locked from the handlebars, useful in Kaprun where riders had to sprint half a mile on tarmac, since the finish-line was in the center of the village in the early years of the famous DH-run.


great shot of Philippe and his bike. I remember him well. I think he was called "the bug" due to his early adoption of body armor for DH. He was fast.


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## innocuous (Jul 18, 2009)

did the GIRVIN ever have isg disc mounts?


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## JmZ (Jan 10, 2004)

innocuous said:


> did the GIRVIN ever have isg disc mounts?


Not as orig spec. Saw that there was someone who was working on putting them on their forks from a Proflex/Girvin/Noleen/K2 forum a few years back.

JmZ


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## innocuous (Jul 18, 2009)

I geuss I have to fab one up for myself then, i have a urban bike build project that im working on. trying to put together an all carbon bike gathering together as much carbon as possable on one bike.useing a carbon girvin fork, just got some reynolds wheels so Ii need to go to disc.


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