# the "other" bontragers...



## gotdirt (Jan 17, 2006)

okay, so i'm a total VRC lurker... i just started hangin' out here a while ago 'cuz i love my privateer (and now my ti lite  ) and this is the forum for all things bontrager. i've since picked up an appreciation for a lot of other classics thanks to you folks (who never fail to astound me w/ your in-depth knowledge of the old-school). 

anyway, threads like this one make me realize there are some pretty cool and unique rides out there that were born out of KB's mind... and obviously some of you are lucky enough to own one or more of them.









so my question is --for us non-collecting newbs/hacks-- what does the "scale" of bonty collectorship look like? i assume privateers are at one end, but what's at the other (i.e. most rare/collectible)? sounds like there were a couple of different multi-material prototypes out there, and i've seen an unfinished frame (sales demo? reject?) hanging up at a LBS...

anyone care to take a (subjective) stab at this?

multi-material proto
ti proto
steel proto
fillet-braze
ti lite
race lite
race
privateer (1")
privateer 1 1/8"

(and i just realized i'm forgetting all of the non-MTB bikes like BMX, SS, road, and CX).

btw, did keith ever do a full-suspension proto?

...and finally in the spirit of this thread, who among you has got the most sought-after bonty on these boards?  

thanks for playing along :thumbsup:


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

Most desirable, eh? Interesting, but pretty subjective. I am all about the older bikes. My 1991 is as new as I like. I would be happy to pick up an fb Bontrager though. The other protos are cool, but not really my bag.


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## GaryHill (Jan 22, 2005)

_btw, did keith ever do a full-suspension proto?_

Yes. See Here : http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=18363&highlight=bontrager+FS+prototype

Other one-off things I've seen mentioned previously - time trial bike and a trials bike.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

The ones I would most like to add to my collection are obvious links between old and new like Hollisters' or some of the more unusual one-offs from the time he was brazing. Stuff like the ones with brake bosses for 26" or 700c wheels (his first use of the non-attatched bosses I believe).


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## Veloculture (Dec 18, 2005)

Keith Bontrager designed this Bianchi 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bianchi-928-CAR...ryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

gotdirt said:


> okay, so i'm a total VRC lurker... i just started hangin' out here a while ago 'cuz i love my privateer (and now my ti lite  ) and this is the forum for all things bontrager. i've since picked up an appreciation for a lot of other classics thanks to you folks (who never fail to astound me w/ your in-depth knowledge of the old-school).
> 
> so my question is --for us non-collecting newbs/hacks-- what does the "scale" of bonty collectorship look like? i assume privateers are at one end, but what's at the other (i.e. most rare/collectible)? sounds like there were a couple of different multi-material prototypes out there, and i've seen an unfinished frame (sales demo? reject?) hanging up at a LBS...
> 
> ...


This is a damn good post. :thumbsup: 
It's a fun topic to discuss the levels of collectability. Very subjective, but fun.

I would put his early work at the top of the list in terms of desirability and rarity. Might not be the most refined, but fascinating just the same.

Prototypes are always interesting/desirable bikes. Seems more Bontrager prototypes have been unearthed than any other vintage mtb I can think of. Not too many 'prototype' Fat Chance, Yeti or Kleins out there....a few maybe...but in the VRC specifically, quite a few have been accounted for, which I think is awesome.

Laffeaux had an older Bonty (I think he recently sold it) that was pretty impressive.

Hollister and Mr. Orange I think are the other two guys with the Bontys to have (to me anyway).

As for appreciating the classics...it's a downward spiral once you start collecting them.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

I think the early ones are at the top then the protos starting with the full suss cuz there are only 2 or 3 then the multi material protos with the steel/alu then the carbon/alu/steel cuz there are more of the skunk works 3 material versions. Then the Ti-lites cuz I have one. then the OR models Then I dont know maybe cx and road bikes then the race/race lites followed by the privateers. 

as far as ridability I say the ti-lite is the top, then the multi material then the steel.

The ti-lite has the most magical ride, which the multi material bikes have to a lesser degree, followed by old fashioned steel.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Laffeaux had an older Bonty (I think he recently sold it) that was pretty impressive.


The early Bonty I had (1984ish) is no longer with me.  But it did go to a very good home. 

KB built custom bikes throughout the 1980's. I don't know how many he made on average per year, but they don't seem to be seen too often too often. He was noted for building CX frames, but he definitely made road and mountain bikes too. I imagine that most of these are sitting in garages throughout the SF Bay Area - and I know of a couple hanging on walls in Bay Area shops (assuming that they've not disappeared recently).

By 1990 or so he switched to makes a more standard frame, called the Off Road - not sure if that was a model name, or just a designation that implied that it was not a road or CX bike. The "OR" decals referred to that name for the remainder of the production life.

The Off Road was replaced by the "Race" frame, which had several modifications. The "Race Lite" shared the geometry and was similar to the "Race," but used a lighter tubeset to get the weight down by a 1/2 pound (according to the catalogs). The "Ti Lite" came later and was contracted out to make a Race Lighter frame - it shared the same geometry. And last came the "Privateer" frames, which were the same design, but made in Waterloo, Wisconsin.

Who knows how many "prototypes" exist(ed) of various designs. I'm sure KB was working on stuff continually from the early '80s until today (not sure if he still messes around with frame design at all). Everything prior to the "Off Road" frames should be cutom, and all leading toward KB's finalizing the Off Road as "his" design.

So in the "other" category, I'd say:
- lots of custom build frames form the 80's
- some unknown number of proto-types of various randomness
- production CX (mid 90's and newer)
- custom CX frames (mostly from the '80s)
- Road Lite (mid 90's and newer)
- custom road (mostly from the '80s)
- custom touring (mostly from the '80s)

Desirablity is in the "eye of the beholder."

I've ridden lots of miles on lots of different models, and they're all pretty nice. I have an Off Road build up as a singlespeed, and it's my current "favorite."


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Williwoods said:


> IThe ti-lite has the most magical ride, which the multi material bikes have to a lesser degree, followed by old fashioned steel.


Not sure that I'd agree. The "old fashioned steel" frames ride pretty nicely.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

I too like the raw early stuff the most. He really tried to rethink the mountain bike at a few steps and there are some cool bikes that came out of it. I need to get it built but the odd one I picked up a few years ago is a brazed frame that has an offset rear triangle. The whole rear triangle is shifted about 6mm to the right so that a 6spd rear hub can be built into a zero-dish wheel with a non-offset rim. It is an oddity and the earliest attempt to address wheel dish I've come accross. The seller didn't know this so it took me a while to sort out what the hell was going on with the thing.

I'm not sure which of Mr. Oranges' you mean but my two favorties are Hollister's and my old biology professor's (the 26"/700c).

I don't think any of the production steel bikes will ever really be collectable, definately worth owning as riders though. I did have to have an origional with the horizontal droupouts and the origional rigid fork though.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

laffeaux said:


> Not sure that I'd agree. The "old fashioned steel" frames ride pretty nicely.


I was surprised by the ride quality of the alu/steel frame. It is very comfortable unlike any aluminum bike Ive ridden. The Ti-lite is noticably more supple in the vertical plane and much stiffer in the horizontal plane than the steel bikes but not as much as the alu/steel. the alu/steel bike I have is the stiffest of the lot in both planes. I think the ti-lite is the pinnacle of comfort mixed with the "awake" feeling of steel bontragers. I really think the steel bikes have a more dull feel compared to the ti-lite. I may be looking to like the ti-lite more as I spent an arm and a leg for it. We'll see how I feel a year from now once i've really run it through its paces. Btw im comparing my race to the ti-lite with the identical build, I pretty much just moved all the same parts over, minus seatpost and levers and front derailleur. So its not a perception of the build or gearing or whatever.

Have you compared a steel and ti bontrager lately?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

-factory ss(i will find you, yes i will)
-proto of any type(working on it)
-fillet brazed(also working on)
-roadlite(in a medium thank you )
-cx
-OR
-race
-racelite
-privateer 1 1/8"
-privateer 1"


your mileage may vary

there are for sure a few "odd" ones out there, im currently trying to get my mitts on a few of them.keith tried some really neat stuff, more than i ever realized.

mr. orange, care to chime in?


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Williwoods said:


> Have you compared a steel and ti bontrager lately?


I have, but they're completely different builds, so it's hard to really compare them. Currently I have built up:

- Race Lite 9x3 w/ 2002 Marzocchi Z-80
- Ti Lite 8x3 w/ 2000 SID
- Off Road singlespeed w/ Bonty rigid fork
- fillet brazed 7x3 w/ Bonty rigid fork

Lately (or at least when the trails were dry), the Off Road sees the most trail time of the four. They all three are built different enough that the components will change the ride more than the frame. Maybe when the weather improves, I'll spend time doing a comparison ride, and see how much difference there really is.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Im no Bonty buff, but werent 'cross bikes sorta Keith's main thing in the 80s? Thats what I remember most. They sure were popular around here. I think his mtbs ride like cross bikes too (ie steep and lots of front wheel weight bias).


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

*What about the man?*

Can anyone comment on KB himself? I remember an article on him in MBA about the time he sold. Remember wondering what he was mad about, just came across as an angry person. There was also a pic of a garage that was just piled up with frames he'd made.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

azjeff said:


> Can anyone comment on KB himself? I remember an article on him in MBA about the time he sold. Remember wondering what he was mad about, just came across as an angry person. There was also a pic of a garage that was just piled up with frames he'd made.


what is it with you and stirring the bontrager pot?


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

azjeff said:


> Can anyone comment on KB himself? I remember an article on him in MBA about the time he sold. Remember wondering what he was mad about, just came across as an angry person. There was also a pic of a garage that was just piled up with frames he'd made.


The garage photp you remember might be the one that was run as an add right after Trek took over. It had some line about remembering where you were from.

Since we are on this topic, does anyone have any photos of the old 'team cars'? One was a beaten pinto wagon and the other was a big american made wagon from the 70s. Both had bike stickers everywhere and big bontrager logos on the hoods and doors. I used to see the big one all the time around SC. Usually parked near downtown. I remember seeing the Specialized hummer parked near it once at a race and it struck me as really funny at the time.


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## gotdirt (Jan 17, 2006)

*so whatcha got?*



Rumpfy said:


> Hollister and Mr. Orange I think are the other two guys with the Bontys to have (to me anyway).


so for those of us who haven't been keeping track, would the three of you (and others-- _grumpy_? _evil4bc_? _ssue?_ _doug lexington_? ) care to list which (bonty) bikes are currently in your collection? i obviously recognize those MTBR IDs which are bontrager-friendly, but i don't really have a sense of who actually owns what... 

i'm easy (though not a collector, just an aficionado):
'96 privateer comp, L (original owner)
'96 ti lite, L (all original parts, minus tires)
--both w/ the judy XC & bonty crown.

i'll just be glad when all this snow melts here in CO so i can actually get them dirty again!


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

I've got one. I think it is a 1991 OR.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

I have:


1995 Aluminum/Steel Prototype size med (1 of 2)

1997 ti-lite size med (1 of 750?)

1992 race with comp fork and horizontal drops size med (1 of many thousands?)

1994 race size medium (1 of thousands?)

1995 BMX diesel (1 of many thousands)


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## azjeff (Jun 3, 2006)

Williwoods said:


> what is it with you and stirring the bontrager pot?


Williwoods, I'm genuinely curious if the feeling I got reading the article back then and remembered was true or of any of you have any first hand info. I must admit the reaction from some of those Bontrager guys in that spoof thread made me remember that article.


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

azjeff said:


> Williwoods, I'm genuinely curious if the feeling I got reading the article back then and remembered was true or of any of you have any first hand info. I must admit the reaction from some of those Bontrager guys in that spoof thread made me remember that article.


I wouldn't doubt he looked pissed at the end of his company. I think a lot of the pioneers ended up feeling pretty burned. Wouldn't you?


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

azjeff said:


> Williwoods, I'm genuinely curious if the feeling I got reading the article back then and remembered was true or of any of you have any first hand info. I must admit the reaction from some of those Bontrager guys in that spoof thread made me remember that article.


I imagine as a guess only that yeah he comes off to some as a bit abrasive. To me though he is straight to the point no bs. I dont really know as ive not spoken personally to him just a few emails and he is genuinly caring and interested in the sport. I imagine though that at the buyout time it must have been a stressfull time in some ways, especially pre-sale, as from what others have said he was barely able to feed his family, might be a stretch but trust me the guys that still make bikes on a small way like bontrager do it for passion not to make a quick buck. So maybe that particular time has something to do with it.

Will


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I wouldn't doubt he looked pissed at the end of his company. I think a lot of the pioneers ended up feeling pretty burned. Wouldn't you?


I know for a fact he does not feel "burned". Im pretty sure he was happier he did not have to worry about making payroll, and could still be involved. I think it took a lot of pressure off. I imagine he is bummed that trek stopped making frames or bikes bearing the name. But really why should he care, he got out right at the time full suspension was getting big and he didnt have the r&d to keep up with the jones and new models every 6 months. He got out at the exact right time as far as I can see.

Will


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

gotdirt said:


> so for those of us who haven't been keeping track, would the three of you (and others-- _grumpy_? _evil4bc_? _ssue?_ _doug lexington_? ) care to list which (bonty) bikes are currently in your collection? i obviously recognize those MTBR IDs which are bontrager-friendly, but i don't really have a sense of who actually owns what...
> 
> i'm easy (though not a collector, just an aficionado):
> '96 privateer comp, L (original owner)
> ...


my FB cross made its debut here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=249789

better pics of the frame (page2)
http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6392&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

the FB mtn
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=265852

also an OR (horizontal dropouts) and a racelite.

p.s: bushpig, killer lookin bike.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

I'm in with

lg ti
med '91 rigid, thought it was a race but maybe an OR, stays have some bend in them
lg '95 racelite set up rigid as a commuter although I took to commuting on other bikes.
brazed cx I got from mr.orange, it's in the show us your bontragers thread.
braze mtb mentioned above

The last two are unbuilt. Mostly I stumbled on these when the prices were still good. The cx was in trade. Actually, the '95 frame was in trade for my XL OR back in the day.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

bushpig said:


> I've got one. I think it is a 1991 OR.


steep seat angle, low bb, short wheelbase, low bars and a 140 stem. i am not good enough to ride it in steep technical trails.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

azjeff said:


> Williwoods, I'm genuinely curious if the feeling I got reading the article back then and remembered was true or of any of you have any first hand info. I must admit the reaction from some of those Bontrager guys in that spoof thread made me remember that article.


what's wrong w/ angry anyway? as long as his bikes have magic he may better be angry cause this is not a world to be dorky smilie about.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Here's my buddies factory Bontrager Single Speed.


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## GrumpyOne (Jan 7, 2004)

Not sure about the most sought after, but the one that I always wanted and that took me the longest to find was a "Factory" Single Speed. (The rarity of the Styff fork is icing on the cake.) :thumbsup: 
jw


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## gotdirt (Jan 17, 2006)

*nice!*



GrumpyOne said:


> Not sure about the most sought after, but the one that I always wanted and that took me the longest to find was a "Factory" Single Speed. (The rarity of the Styff fork is icing on the cake.)


that really is a "clean" looking bike... and i really like the simple black/silver/white color scheme (don't see a lot of black bontys it seems).

what is a _styff_ fork? that one is new to me...


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Here's my buddies factory Bontrager Single Speed.


Oh baby . . . mmmmmmmmmm oooooorrrrrrrraaaaannnnnnggggggggggeeeeeeeeee (orange) 

with that fork its a . . . creamsicle!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*orange and black*

im dying over here.

i WILL find one.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*please*



MrOrange said:


> Oh baby . . . mmmmmmmmmm oooooorrrrrrrraaaaannnnnnggggggggggeeeeeeeeee (orange)
> 
> with that fork its a . . . creamsicle!


your photo skills shame mine.any chance we can see some of yours?


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## Guest (Feb 22, 2007)

gotdirt said:


> what is a _styff_ fork? that one is new to me...


those are pretty cool carbon lowers for the Judy...

better pic









Carsten


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## Jeroen (Jan 12, 2004)

My Bonty entry;

-Horizontal dropout-ed RaceLite (small crack in seattube (vertical, not yet repaired)
-Proto FS, the Anaheim-Interbike -frame
-TiLite, cracked and repaired.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*a few q's*



Jeroen said:


> My Bonty entry;
> 
> -Horizontal dropout-ed RaceLite (small crack in seattube (vertical, not yet repaired)
> -Proto FS, the Anaheim-Interbike -frame
> -TiLite, cracked and repaired.


what legs are those on the black one?

can i please see more of that fs


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

MrOrange said:


> Oh baby . . . mmmmmmmmmm oooooorrrrrrrraaaaannnnnnggggggggggeeeeeeeeee (orange)
> 
> with that fork its a . . . creamsicle!


It's actually got a Marathon on there now I believe.

The Paul front are rear hubs are a perfect match in color. It's pretty cool.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*your killin me*



Rumpfy said:


> It's pretty cool.


understatement


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

I've had three Bontragers over the years, and now I have two. The first was a Race with 2-piece stays. I sold that 2 years ago after having owned it for 10 yeaars. It was ridden little, and not at all the last 5 years of my custody. 

I now have a Race and Race Lite, both with one piece stays, both made in Santa Cruz. The Race was NOS is from a guy in Oregon who drove down to the Bay Area to sell it to me. He bought it ~1996 and never built it. It still had all the original tags on it, held by rotten rubber bands. Although Santa Cruz built, it is post-Trek, maybe one of the last runs out of the SC shop. Note the stickers with a creme background.

The Race Lite is also a late production SC frame I bought from an SC guy who owned several others. It must also be post-Trek due to the stays and the provenance shared by the seller. The seller said that he was a personal friend of KB and a former RockShox R&D engineer, and this was from the very last Race Lite run of frames. It has the road bike stickers, which I love for their clean look. The fork is a one-off prototype with unique innards and Ti fasteners, and, of course, a KB crown. It also came with a NOS SID with 1" threadless steerer and a plethora of other era parts in a box. All I cared about was that it was orange. I love orange!

I will try to post images a bit later..... for some reason I cannot at this time.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

scooderdude said:


> I've had three Bontragers over the years, and now I have two. The first was a Race with 2-piece stays. I sold that 2 years ago after having owned it for 10 yeaars. It was ridden little, and not at all the last 5 years of my custody.
> 
> I now have a Race and Race Lite, both with one piece stays, both made in Santa Cruz. The Race was NOS is from a guy in Oregon who drove down to the Bay Area to sell it to me. He bought it ~1996 and never built it. It still had all the original tags on it, held by rotten rubber bands. Although Santa Cruz built, it is post-Trek, maybe one of the last runs out of the SC shop. Note the stickers with a creme background.
> 
> ...


Like this one?


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> Like this one?


Yup!!


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Yes 'um . . .*



hollister said:


> your photo skills shame mine.any chance we can see some of yours?


I'll get some up tonight . . . Any special requests?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*ALL OF THEM!!!! yeah thats right ALL OF EM.please?*



MrOrange said:


> I'll get some up tonight . . . Any special requests?


 the white one, no wait, the black one, no wait,bare metal with magenta decals, no wait, the green one....hmmmm......surprise me

get your website running.,


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

azjeff said:


> Can anyone comment on KB himself? I remember an article on him in MBA about the time he sold. Remember wondering what he was mad about, just came across as an angry person. There was also a pic of a garage that was just piled up with frames he'd made.


Then there was the piece in _BIKE_ mag last year where KB said selling to/joining Trek is the best thing he ever did. No worries about paying the bills, still designing and testing bike parts, and getting to race and ride all over the world in the name of product development and brand promotion. We should all be as "angry."


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## shiggy (Dec 19, 1998)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Im no Bonty buff, but werent 'cross bikes sorta Keith's main thing in the 80s? Thats what I remember most. They sure were popular around here. I think his mtbs ride like cross bikes too (ie steep and lots of front wheel weight bias).


I remember the 'cross bikes KB made in the '80s. There was a feature on one that was ridden to a national championship (by Clark Natwick?). Brazed Prestige road tubing with internal tubular lugs for extra strength and minimal weight.


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## Jefe74 (Mar 1, 2006)

*Just get back. Way back*



colker1 said:


> steep seat angle, low bb, short wheelbase, low bars and a 140 stem. i am not good enough to ride it in steep technical trails.


Thus the inspiration for the original cut down narrow Bontrager Sella San Marco saddles. So you could throw your weight way behind the seat.

I remember getting bruises on the inside of my thighs from slamming my legs into the back of one of those on steep rocky downhills. And I learned to duck and roll when launching over the bars... :thumbsup:


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## Jeroen (Jan 12, 2004)

hollister said:


> what legs are those on the black one?


Tange Prestige, most likely from a Switchblade. I got it this way with the frame. I also have a Comp version which I like more to fit the frame.



hollister said:


> can i please see more of that fs


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## Jeroen (Jan 12, 2004)




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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*chompin at the bit*



MrOrange said:


> I'll get some up tonight . . . Any special requests?


i think this counts as tonight.........


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Jeroen said:


> Tange Prestige, most likely from a Switchblade. I got it this way with the frame. I also have a Comp version which I like more to fit the frame.


Oh sweet I have found memories of getting to pedal that bike around the Beckmas parking lot for about 34 sec one day wile visiting Bontrager !!!

On damm now that's some serious bike porn right there !!!
easily the most sought after Bontrager proto , ever more so that the 3 mat bikes !!

Personally one bike I wish I picked up was a original KB brazed road light with the uber thin brazed wishbone , this bike as hanging at ChainReaction in Los Altos the entire time I worked there and in the end it was either my ti light or that Road light and I took the Ti light only to have TREK blow the Ti lights out on closeout sale 3 months later :madman:

That Road light was like no other Bontrager road bike I had ever seen !!
I still have bike dreams about it in all it's navy blue splendor with original 95-96 dura-ace gruppe on it also


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Personally one bike I wish I picked up was a original KB brazed road light with the uber thin brazed wishbone


ovalized seat stays?


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> ovalized seat stays?


Very slightly ovalized and it had the nicest investment cast wish bone I have ever seen , like nice curves on a hot woman ! KB's work had timeless style :thumbsup:


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*86-7 and a nontrager*

86-7 and a nontrager . . .


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*More . . .*

More. Proto AL/Steel, Proto AL FS from 96. FS at 96 Interbike.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

MrOrange said:


> More. Proto AL/Steel, Proto AL FS from 96. FS at 96 Interbike.


Isnt that proto full sup from 96 that didn't work right , so they hung it up so no one could sit on it ?
It doesn't look ridden so this kinda supports my theory Anyway WOW !!! nice collection !!


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*my hats off sir.. you lucky bastid*

stunning, just stunning.

keep em coming


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Yeah . . .*



Evil4bc said:


> Isnt that proto full sup from 96 that didnt work right , so they hung it up so no one could sit on it ? Anyway WOW !!! nice collection !!


Front Der no work - hits frame. Check out that loooong 150 stem. During show set-up, that was my first question. Never got a good answer as to why . . . oh well. I have the stem to get it back to that state (+all the right parts) just need to have some blue Rock Shox cals made. 

Sussy and everything works but the front der to the granny grear does not.


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## 95bonty (Oct 6, 2004)

*trials?*

what about the trials bike currently on one of those auction sites? anyone know the story behind it, or if it's real - the fork and front end looks utilitarian enough to be a keith creation...


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Fb Ss*

I think changed to SS later in life. Sub110 dropsouts.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Yeah, I saw that.*

Looks OK, same Salsa QR as on Hollister's and same cable guide technique as on my 86-7.

There are so many weird one -offs that are not MTB (TT, Trials, Road, Touring) that you could go nuts trying to get them all .. . . I like just MTB at this point . . . or I'll go broke.

It IS kinda cute though . . .


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

gotdirt said:


> so for those of us who haven't been keeping track, would the three of you (and others-- _grumpy_? _evil4bc_? _ssue?_ _doug lexington_? ) care to list which (bonty) bikes are currently in your collection? i obviously recognize those MTBR IDs which are bontrager-friendly, but i don't really have a sense of who actually owns what...


I jsut got a chance to re through the each of the post here in this thread .
Here's what I got in the shop , I must say that this thread has inspired me to pull some of my Bontrager tubes sets out of storage and built myself of a few Non-Trager project frames .. I'll keep everyone posted !! I'm getting excited as I will finally have the opportunity to build the bike Jensen and I were talking about build when they closed the shop .. the dragonfly !!!

Bikes and Bontrager stuff currently in my collection .

Ti light in LG NEW never ridden , original XT parts grope was carefully re packaged and returned to REI for store credit on camping gear !

My personal race light which has seen many different builds throughout out the years .
This bike used to have a front disk and a RS judy 20-mm through axle fork used for DS racing by Mike King when he road for GT
Still full XTR ( I left my 747 on a demo bike that got returned so if anyone has a set in good condition please PM me )

My Race Light 2 speed with complete Paul group including ft der melvin single speed rear hub widget brakes in front and canti's in the rear , one off Sample Bontrager seat , Bontrager composite fork , Race light stem with Crow risers bars , XT thumb shifter with shimano chain and pedals are the only parts not made in the U.S.A on this bike :thumbsup:

Non trager BMX prototype material given to me by Keith and Jensen to get my frame business started , 5 total were built in my shop 4 sold to some shop in NYC

Prototype Bontrager disk rims , welded seem still visible 
These are being dug out of storage for the Dragonfly project !!

Original Bontrager stem with pined and bonded hyper-light bar

A stack of Bontrager Beer Coaster about 3ft high :eekster:

a few misc bit's of Bontrager clothing like sweaters and the thrift shorts KB had embroidered with B logos

Stickers and original proof sheets for both Race light and Road light frame stickers kits

A good collection but not as sought after as some of the stuff recently posted in this thread . Thanks for the intreats


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Nice bikes Mr. Orange! I really like the fb white one in the first set. Very nice bike frame!


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*neat*



Evil4bc said:


> A stack of Bontrager Beer Coaster about 3ft high :eekster:


Hmmmm. Beercoasters.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

MrOrange said:


> Hmmmm. Beercoasters.


It was one of the last thing they had at the SC shop before it got toally cleaned out , I just filled my backpack with everything I could carry back over HWY9 on my ride back home


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Here are a couple CX bikes:

Dont have this one anymore. Its probably late 80s I'd guess:



This one is an 84. It is lugged and was raced in the 1984 World Championships in Germany. I am going to repaint it and redecal it someday I hope:


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Here are a couple CX bikes:
> 
> Dont have this one anymore. Its probably late 80s I'd guess:
> 
> ...


is it the angle of the photo's or are those dropouts different than the ones on mine?

not that the brazed one aint cool(cause it is), but the lugged one is hot:thumbsup:


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*Lugged*

I saw a pic of one that had polished lugs - it was in the forward of Dirt Rag (I think)

Wish I could find that . . . it was the pinnacle of cool Bonty frames . . .:madman:


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

MrOrange said:


> I saw a pic of one that had polished lugs - it was in the forward of Dirt Rag (I think)
> 
> Wish I could find that . . . it was the pinnacle of cool Bonty frames . . .:madman:


I just came across a guy in Oakland on Friday that was on a lugged bonty road frame. First bonty I've ever seen with lugs. He also mentioned the internal lugging at the BB. Really pretty orange bike.

Incidently, the red and green cross posted by FB is in my hands now.


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*mmm orange*



Boy named SSue said:


> I just came across a guy in Oakland on Friday that was on a lugged bonty road frame. First bonty I've ever seen with lugs. He also mentioned the internal lugging at the BB. Really pretty orange bike.
> 
> Incidently, the red and green cross posted by FB is in my hands now.


I wish you didn't tell me that.

I have a thing for orange . . .


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Boy named SSue said:


> I just came across a guy in Oakland on Friday that was on a lugged bonty road frame. First bonty I've ever seen with lugs. He also mentioned the internal lugging at the BB. Really pretty orange bike.
> 
> Incidently, the red and green cross posted by FB is in my hands now.


Oakland you say....

did it look even remotely like a 56cm?


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*cx*



Boy named SSue said:


> Incidently, the red and green cross posted by FB is in my hands now.


That's what's good about dealing with you guys . . . you will always know that one of us will be there to sell/trade for cool stuff . . . and know it went to a good home . . .:thumbsup:


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## MrOrange (Jun 21, 2004)

*see*



hollister said:


> Oakland you say....
> 
> did it look even remotely like a 56cm?


. . . look see the rear cable guides/hangers on the cx's . . . the green one has a "finger" and the blue one has the welded loop with brazed guide on top . . .compare that to the added guide on my SS and the guide used on my FB MTB. There are quite a few interesting variations just on handling that one issue.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

MrOrange said:


> That's what's good about dealing with you guys . . . you will always know that one of us will be there to sell/trade for cool stuff . . . and know it went to a good home . . .:thumbsup:


That bike has seen a few good homes from the sounds of it.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Boy named SSue said:


> That bike has seen a few good homes from the sounds of it.


Oh cool. Glad youve got it. That was a neat frame. Cant wait to get this lugged one up and running. No time though!

One thing Ive never heard is the Bontrager story and timeline. Who can tell it? Ive heard Keith was really into soccer and came from a motorcycle engineering background but thats about it.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

hollister said:


> Oakland you say....
> 
> did it look even remotely like a 56cm?


Either that or a 55cm. It looked like it was my size and that is what I fit. I was hanging out the window of my friend's car at a light so I only saw it for a minute and the details I got were limited. Luckily, the guy was as enthusiastic to talk about it as I was. All I mentioned was that it was the first of Keith's lugged work I've ever seen and he mentioned the internal lugging at the BB. Sounded like he was the origional owner as he mentioned something about when he was having it built.

It was a pretty orange that was lighter and more muted than the later caltrans shade. Had a painted to match pump under the top-tube. I wish I were riding when I was it so I could have taken more of it in. Definately looked more touring than racing.


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## Boy named SSue (Jan 7, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Oh cool. Glad youve got it. That was a neat frame. Cant wait to get this lugged one up and running. No time though!
> 
> One thing Ive never heard is the Bontrager story and timeline. Who can tell it? Ive heard Keith was really into soccer and came from a motorcycle engineering background but thats about it.


I know he has a physics degree from UCSC and was a team mechanic for a motocross team. For a while I was the only person in the UCSC physics department with a Bontrager. I dropped the major and switched to biology/biochem and became one of eight or so. My favorite Bontrager of all time is in the hands of one of the biology professors.


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> Oh cool. Glad youve got it. That was a neat frame. Cant wait to get this lugged one up and running. No time though!
> 
> One thing Ive never heard is the Bontrager story and time line. Who can tell it? Ive heard Keith was really into soccer and came from a motorcycle engineering background but thats about it.


I have a couple of interesting things. Funny enough I can back up the soccer thing. I was at Bicycles of Ojai...my lbs and I had ridden one of my tragers to pick up some parts. A guy there asked about the bike and mentioned he was on the same soccer team as Keith in the 80's. He had mentioned that Keith had tried several times to get him on one of his bikes, and made him a crazy deal like $500 for a new at the time complete brazed mtb, but he had to pass being a poor college student and all. He seemed to regret passing it up. Anyway The guy mentioned Keith was an avid soccer player and had some skills. More or less a small piece of info.

I have been trying to get in touch and speak a bit with Laurence Malone, who was a great early Cyclocross racer who lived in SC in the real early days. He was in Ojai a couple of weeks ago for a remembrance of our friend James Ross who passed away while on a ride off gridley trail in ojai. James also used to live in SC in the 80's and had a few Keith stories. Well Laurence tells me he has a few Bontragers and other 80's bikes. and I know he could help put some info together. Laurence was responsible for talking my neighbor into driving to SC in 1983 and having his measurements taken by Keith and build Tom his incredible MTB touring do it all bike. I have mentioned this one before Its got brake mounts for both 26 and 700c wheels. I have to get some pictures I know i have been saying it for a while. Anyway I will try to get some decent information from tom about it too. Hes an older guy and loves talking about his old bike that I used to see chained to his palm tree year round in the rain or whatever. I never see it outside anymore since I asked about his bike. I didnt make it a secret that I collect bontragers so Im sure it helped him to realize its worth. So maybe I will try this next weekend to get the pics.

Will


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Williwoods said:


> I have a couple of interesting things. Funny enough I can back up the soccer thing. I was at Bicycles of Ojai...my lbs and I had ridden one of my tragers to pick up some parts. A guy there asked about the bike and mentioned he was on the same soccer team as Keith in the 80's. He had mentioned that Keith had tried several times to get him on one of his bikes, and made him a crazy deal like $500 for a new at the time complete brazed mtb, but he had to pass being a poor college student and all. He seemed to regret passing it up. Anyway The guy mentioned Keith was an avid soccer player and had some skills. More or less a small piece of info.
> 
> I have been trying to get in touch and speak a bit with Lawrence Malone, who was a great early Cyclocross racer who lived in SC in the real early days. He was in Ojai a couple of weeks ago for a remembrance of our friend James Ross who passed away while on a ride off gridley trail in ojai. James also used to live in SC in the 80's and had a few Keith stories. Well Lawrence tells me he has a few Bontragers and other 80's bikes. and I know he could help put some info together. Lawrence was responsible for talking my neighbor into driving to SC in 1983 and having his measurements taken by Keith and build Tom his incredible MTB touring do it all bike. I have mentioned this one before Its got brake mounts for both 26 and 700c wheels. I have to get some pictures I know i have been saying it for a while. Anyway I will try to get some decent information from tom about it too. Hes an older guy and loves talking about his old bike that I used to see chained to his palm tree year round in the rain or whatever. I never see it outside anymore since I asked about his bike. I didnt make it a secret that I collect bontragers so Im sure it helped him to realize its worth. So maybe I will try this next weekend to get the pics.
> 
> Will


I am very stoked and consider myself lucky to have raced cyclocross against Laurence Malone when he made a run at the Master's World Championships in 1989 or 90. He was first, I was second, but I was honored to have had the chance to actually race with the legend. I was a junior then.

Yes, I spoke with Laurence when he was down in Ojai a few weeks ago. Never could make anything work out though before he left. Did you get the Ritchey?


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## Williwoods (May 3, 2004)

Fillet-brazed said:


> I am very stoked and consider myself lucky to have raced cyclocross against Laurence Malone when he made a run at the Master's World Championships in 1989 or 90. He was first, I was second, but I was honored to have had the chance to actually race with the legend. I was a junior then.
> 
> Yes, I spoke with Laurence when he was down in Ojai a few weeks ago. Never could make anything work out though before he left. Did you get the Ritchey?


Crazy, were you there for James or just in town? Nah I did not get the ritchey, didnt even know about it. I wonder if we ran into each other? Do you know Kelly? Funny story about Laurence..........this older scraggly guy shows up a day after my garage sale asking my daughter about "bike parts" for sale. My daughter comes over to me and says this weird guy is out front and wants to talk to me. I told the guy no I dont have any parts for sale as I had no idea who this guy was and how he knows I have parts for sale. Turns out it was Laurence and James Ross had been telling me for months man we gotta get Laurence over to your place to see your bontragers, he used to ride for bontrager. I did not see Laurence again until James' memorial ride. I got to apologize for my lack of hospitality, I felt pretty lame. Oh well I would love to talk with him some more, and check out his stash of cool older bikes.


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

.....and here's my sorta Nontrager, Lobtrager, kinda sorta thing. Has Bontrager mono-, one piece seat stays, Dedacciai mains, Ritchey chain stays and Salsa drops. Oh - and that's an integrated Action Tech suspension up front. Paul made this thing for Santa Cruz single track, let me tell you, as its dimensions mimic those of both my Bontys.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

scooderdude said:


> .....and here's my sorta Nontrager, Lobtrager, kinda sorta thing. Has Bontrager mono-, one piece seat stays, Dedacciai mains, Ritchey chain stays and Salsa drops. Oh - and that's an integrated Action Tech suspension up front. Paul made this thing for Santa Cruz single track, let me tell you, as its dimensions mimic those of both my Bontys.


I do like that one. Very unique bike.


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## scooderdude (Sep 27, 2004)

Rumpfy said:


> I do like that one. Very unique bike.


Here're a few more


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

i finally get into the A stay club


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

hollister said:


> i finally get into the A stay club


wow. Now thats pretty. And thats not something I say about Bontys too often. 

No, my bb shell is not like that. That is really neat though. We need a nice side shot and more detail shots please.

Not to take away from yours, but I might as well put my "other bonty" pics in this thread too.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

At this point, it looks like there needs to be a 'who has the most thrashed Bonty' thread.


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Fillet-brazed said:


> We need a nice side shot and more detail shots please.


any thing specific?


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

*a few more*

i cant load 5 pics for some reason


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## crconsulting (Apr 11, 2004)

hollister said:


> i cant load 5 pics for some reason


server seemed to burp for me too a few minutes ago 

Lots of character in that frame. It looks like its been ridden across the country a few times.....

and ready to go a few more times


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## hollister (Sep 16, 2005)

Rumpfy said:


> At this point, it looks like there needs to be a 'who has the most thrashed Bonty' thread.


its not in that bad a shape..


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## kenjihara (Mar 7, 2006)

*...*

'Where do (they) get those beautiful toys?'


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## kenjihara (Mar 7, 2006)

I'm trying to have some Bontrager decal reproductions made, but it's kind of expensive to get decent ones due to minimum quantity requirements. Do any of you guys want to maybe pick up a set for your own restoration and help to defray the cost? I'm not sure what it's going to cost yet exactly... I'm having them done at a professional shop and I'm still deciding what color to do. I'm thinking to get just a set of white lettering with black outline and white darts at the ends on a clear background, but I might do silver lettering and black outline on a white outline... pm me if you're interested. I have to do the whole batch in one color, and they won't be pre-cut, but other than that they should be pretty nice.


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## jimgskoop (Apr 13, 2006)

Here are some photos of early Bontrager frames, including a couple of Wing time-trial bikes, a 1989 custom CX frame, and an early fillet-brazed CX frame (orange!) with a composite fork. Full set

Note: None of these are mine, just random photos I've found off the internets (mostly Ebay and CL).


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