# How much travel makes a difference?



## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

I can't find any good answers to this question, so I'm just going to ask here (sorry if it's been asked before). 

For those of you who have both a newer Trail/Enduro bike (in the 140-160mm of F/R travel range) AND a DH bike or long travel Enduro (in the 180-200+mm F/R travel), can you talk about the differences between the two when riding? I know other things such as HTA, STA, wheelbase, chainstay length, etc can also come into play, but with today's Enduro bikes being so close to the same as a DH bike in that respect, it seems like the biggest difference is travel. Most Enduro bikes these days have HTA's literally the same as a DH bike (63-64*). Wheelbase is just a tad longer on a DH bike (10-20mm longer on a DH bike). Chainstay lengths within 5-10mm of each other. So very minor differences or the same. 

So can you talk about how exactly that extra 20-40mm of travel front and back makes a difference. How does it effect jumping, drops, berms, chunky terrain, gnarly steep technical areas, etc. Is it a huge difference, moderate or very subtle? Is it more of a comfort thing? Or does it also allow you to ride over stuff you can't with lower travel bikes? I'm assuming it allows you to go much faster over much rougher terrain with less rider effort, is more forgiving, more comfort and less jarring on drops and hits? 

But just not sure, since I'm crazy tall and can't just ask a buddy to try out a DH bike, haha. There are only a few people that ride DH bikes where I ride and they're all people in the 5'8" to 6' range. So their bike is crazy small for me and wouldn't give me a good idea.

I'm basically just wondering if adding 20mm more of front and rear travel will make much of a difference or not (like adding a Cascade Components Link to my current bike/Megatower, and letting out the fork from 160 to 180)? Or do you have to step up to a DH bike with a 40mm difference to notice any large changes in performance and comfort? I already adjusted my bike to the longer chainstay length from 435 to 445 and put it in the Low setting, and can't tell any difference at all. So it seems like tiny little changes of 10-20mm won't make that much of a difference? But maybe for travel it will? 

I watch a lot of videos online of all sorts of riders and usually when someone is on a DH bike, they just look like they are SOOO much more at ease, nothing on the trail bothers the rider. They can go way faster overall with less rider effort, jump farther and higher easier. When they land from huge jumps or drops, it's soooo smooth and way less jarring than if they are riding a 140-160mm travel type bike. It looks like like the difference between riding an F1 car down a MTN and a Rally truck. A good rider could ride either bike down the same trail, but the Enduro/Trail bike looks like a LOT more work, rougher, harsh and requires much better riding skill. While the DH bike looks SOOO plush, easy, and just effortless while gliding down the same gnarly trails.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

I went from a 160/160 to 170/170 and u could feel a big difference, plusher over rough terrain.
Then i went to 180/180 and again big difference.

I have a coil fork and shock, so a 203 air fork might have more stiction, at least that's what I've been told. 

Sent from my moto g 5G using Tapatalk


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

My enduro bike is an Evil Wreckoning LB with 170/161 F/R travel and a -1.5 degree angleset giving it a 64.6 head angle. It's not the latest model but the previous one.

My DH bike is an Intense M29 with 208mm F/R travel and a 62.65 HA

Although on paper the differences might be small, in real life it's significant. When I sit on the DH bike the front wheel looks (and is) wayyy out in front of me, like it's in the next zip code. Riding down steep tech trails it's a lot harder to go over the bars. Landing from jumps the DH bike is so forgiving, it feels like you can do no wrong. That extra couple of inches of suspension travel and DH appropriate damping does a ton. The bike is super-forgiving, which gives me the confidence to ride down trails that would've scared me off before.

I have a video on my IG of me sending it too deep on a hellacious drop-off and landing heavy maybe 15' below the take-off yet the bike didn't bottom out and I remember the landing being a muted "oomph" instead of a harsh "clack." I’ve added a screenshot below frozen at the point of impact.

After spending most of this summer riding park on the DH bike I went back to my Evil (considered a big bike in the trail bike world) after the parks closed for the season. I found myself smashing into stuff that I would've taken more gingerly before. The bike has held up fine, so I learned that I can ride it harder than I have in the past, but the impacts would've been more muted on the Intense. The margin for error is greater. It’s more stable and confidence-inspiring.









Bonus pic just cuz I like it:


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Do you feel you you are out-riding the bike now? Like the shorter travel is holding you back?

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Shark said:


> Do you feel you you are out-riding the bike now? Like the shorter travel is holding you back?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


Me?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Nat said:


> Me?


Sure, or the OP 

I used to ride a 120mm bike, and once it gets too chunky you can tell when you've reached the limit.

But now with 140 back, 160 front, seems to go through a lot. But I'm not doing full on DH like you guys.

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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Shark said:


> Sure, or the OP
> 
> I used to ride a 120mm bike, and once it gets too chunky you can tell when you've reached the limit.
> 
> ...


In the park I reach my comfort limit on the enduro bike before I do on the DH bike. I look at some jumps and trails and say “hard pass” whereas on DH bike I’ll try it and see if I die.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

I have a 170/165 megatrail (64hta) (with MX mixed wheel conversion) with coil shock and 150/135 spitfire (66hta) with air shock. I feel a big difference between the two. The spitfire can get up to about 80% of speed and chunk of megatrail (non scientific estimate) and it starts feeling overwhelmed where the megatrail can still plow through the chunk. On the other hand the spitfire is a lot more agile and is fun to toss around. The coil vs air shocks help exaggerate this but a lot of the difference is still due to travel, kinematics, geo.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

I also have a 2015 Trek Remedy trail bike with 150/140 F/R travel and there’s just no comparison to the DH bike. Not even close.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

I don't think this is something you can usefully isolate to travel. I have no doubt that a DH bike feels better than a 180mm bike on very rough trails but at least some of that difference is due to the dual crown fork and rear suspension that doesn't make many compromises in favor of pedalling.


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## PhillipJ (Aug 23, 2013)

Double post


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## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Hmm, some interesting info here, thanks for sharing. One thing I'm not hearing, that I need to understand, is HOW much more travel will make a bike feel a large difference in how it handles rough terrain, jumps, drops, etc. So I obviously know that there is a difference between a 150/160mmish travel bike and a 200mm travel DH bike. That's not what I'm asking. 

I'm asking, HOW MUCH travel is needed to make a big difference in noticeable feel and performance? Is it 20mm or 40mm? Or do you just have to get a different bike to get that DH like performance? 

Like my Megatower is a 160/160. It's sweet. I haven't even come close to exploring it's limits. But... I can tell it's never going to feel and perform more like a DH bike. But... I see that Cascade makes a link for the Megatower (among other bikes) and I have a shock that will allow me to use the full 180mm of travel on that link. Plus I have a Mezzer Pro fork. It's at 160, but I can easily let out the fork to 180. So I could potentially be running a 180/180 bike. And wondering if this is going to make my Megatower feel a LOT like a DH bike? Somewhat like a DH bike? Or still feel like my bike, just a bit more comfort and ability to suck up chunk, drops, etc? Or would I have to think about just buying a full time DH bike at some point if that is what I'm going for? I don't know when or if I'll ever be able to afford to buy another bike. These things are 5-8k a piece. So if at all possible, I'd like to just modify this bike to make it more like a DH bike. But not sure if spending money on the cascade link and/or buying a dual crown fork and running it at 190 is going to make my Megatower feel and perform pretty close to a full on DH bike or not?


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## Arm&Hammer (Dec 19, 2020)

Well one is a DH bike and one is not, no amount of travel will change how they feel. Geometry and pedal efficiency are complexly different between these style of bikes. If the one feel as
Plush as a DH bike then it would not have the benefits of being not a DH bike.


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## Cary (Dec 29, 2003)

It is more than just head angle and travel that separate a DH and Enduro bike. DH bikes also have lower anti squat for less pedal kickback on big hits and lower bottom brackets, pedaling over over tech is not as important, nor is climbing. DH bikes also have much slacker actual seat tube angles, which gets the seat further forward and out of the way. Downhill bikes serve a single purpose, go down technical and big hit stuff as quickly as possible.

It really comes down to horses for courses. If I am going down slow techy steep stuff, give me a trail/enduro bike with its suspension that is stiffer through the initial travel and moves around less at low speeds so you can basically track stand and look at your line, then drop in slowly. On a DH bike, the suspension moves so much, you drop in to slow and next thing you know, the front end comes stop as the wheel hits a big obstacle and the suspension cycles through most of the travel. DH bikes start to feel good at the speed a trail or enduro bike is hitting is getting towards its limits. This also ignores the additional stiffness from a dual crown fork.


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

Whilst not having a DH bike, I've a 135/150 bike,
a 150/160 bike and a 154/170 bike. All XL as I'm 1.93m tall.

What I've found is
Geometry > travel quality > amount of travel when it comes to comfortable and composed riding.

150/160 bike has a coil so feels the smoothest at the rear. The 154/170 bike has a Push HC97 damper and feels best at the front. And whilst the 135/150 bike is am excelly all rounder, I feel it's limits / bottom it out more quickly, frequently and easily compared to the other two. 

Just my own personal observations. Your experience may differ.


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## SprSonik (Jul 29, 2004)

20mm travel is slightly noticeable. The differences between DH bikes and Enduro bikes are tied to geo and travel, but I know a guy who is faster downhill on his Enduro bike than he is on his DH bike at some parks. So it really comes down to what you prefer. But if you aren't killing it on the nastiest DH trails, a DH bike isn't necessarily better.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I agree with the others. You wont make a dh bike out of an enduro bike. They are 2 different fish for all the reasons described above. 

But you will close the gap. 

To answer your travel question. 20mm makes a noticeable difference. Adding a 180mm fork to the front of your 160mm beast will give you slacker head angle and better gnar capability with very little dissadvantage. DO IT. 

By adding more travel you essentially increase the max gnar level that you can ride comfortably. You shift the fun factor up a notch in track difficultness. The expense is playfullness. The way to bring back playfulness is to also put your bike on a diet. Shed a kg of weight and yourl have the playfulness you took away with adding 20mm more travel. 

Now if you are not getting close to the limits of the 160mm bike then the extra grunt of the 200mm dh bike is probably wasted. Also it depends on the tracks you ride. DH bikes are only faster than enduro bikes in full gnar conditions. All of my local trails though steep technical are slow technical and are actually faster on an enduro bike. I don't need a dh bike locally. That said my 165/180 push 11-6/fox 36 slayer is pretty darn capable! 

Also more travel will beat your body up less on those big dh shuttle days. 130mm guy will be in the hurt locker, 160mm guy will be feeling it, 180mm guy will know he has done some work but will still be feeling good, dh bike guy will be grinning.

Now if its shallow gradient and not much gnar,,, the hurt locker will be switched around.


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

As usual with mtbr, by the time I find a post I'm interested in commenting on, there are already 50 posts. Everyone made good comments as I scanned through, but maybe another aspect not mentioned yet is what kind of crew are you riding with or what are your goals?

If you do small group rides with a few buddies and you're already the faster one, and not entering races, then you don't need the fastest thing. The fun part of mtb'g is to forget about work, life, etc and focus on something challenging for a couple hours. So if you're the faster one, then get the Enduro, ride with your buds and end up down the hill near the same time. If you're the less experienced one, often do shuttle runs or lift parks or want to race downhill, then get the downhill bike.

If you only do like 2 lift parks per year, then I'd think the enduro is more liveable for other rides, and just rent at the lift-parks.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Furthermore, sometimes it's not about going faster. Sometimes having a DH bike will give you the confidence to ride a scary tech section that you weren't willing to try on a smaller bike. Then, after you've seen that you can ride the scary section, you're able to go back and ride it on your smaller bike.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

Spent a lot of time pushing 42 pound DH bikes up hills when I was younger. In order to buy one now I’d need to be within an hour or two of a really good lift service park to justify it.
Otherwise it’s just so much more practical to have a big 170mm travel enduro bike.
It is true though, nothing inspires more confidence on World Cup style downhills than a proper DH rig.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It is not so much the travel that makes the difference it is the stiffness. When you take a big impact a bike, flexes, twists and bends, well it is doing this, it does not work very well. The quicker it returns to a neutral state the more composed it is going to feel.


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## ehfour (Oct 17, 2016)

Your asking for peoples opinion, which I think is a good thing to ask in an internet forum. What you need to do, is rent a DH bike to see what you think, guaranteed 10-15 secs into your first double black/ single black you will have your answer....plus at the end of the day report back on how your arms and hands feel


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

ehfour said:


> Your asking for peoples opinion, which I think is a good thing to ask in an internet forum. What you need to do, is rent a DH bike to see what you think, guaranteed 10-15 secs into your first double black/ single black you will have your answer....plus at the end of the day report back on how your arms and hands feel


Nah, you need to spend a bit of time on a rig to get a full appreciation of the madness that can unfold. Sure you notice its easier. But you have incorrect preconceived limitations of what is possible on a smaller travel bike. You have to chuck those limitations out the window and go all in to fully understand.


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## response3 (Mar 4, 2007)

plummet said:


> Nah, you need to spend a bit of time on a rig to get a full appreciation of the madness that can unfold. Sure you notice its easier. But you have incorrect preconceived limitations of what is possible on a smaller travel bike. You have to chuck those limitations out the window and go all in to fully understand.


I fully agree. Like someone else said above, when considering bikes, it’s geometry first, quality of suspension second, travel third. If your bike has the first two and it’s still not enough for your riding or terrain, then adding travel helps in some cases, but 10-20mm isn’t going to make a big difference IMO.

To highlight how much of a difference geometry and suspension matter, there are some some pretty rough trails near my house that I’ve ridden for 15 years on 170, 150, and 120mm bikes. I am much faster on my new 120mm “downcountry” bike than my previous 2018 150mm trail bike or my new 170mm enduro. I really only rode the enduro when I’m going to ride somewhere that has bigger jumps or drops, like a dh track or bike park, but I rarely feel like I need more travel or a bigger bike.

For the OP, I wouldn’t get hung up on the specific travel. In fact, more is often slower. Focus on geometry that matches your intended use and learn how to really dial in your suspension to work in balance and with the right amount of progression for your weight, riding style, and terrain. If you’re still feeling under biked, then maybe it’s frame, fork, tire or wheel stiffness related. But I’m nearly all cases, less than 30mm of travel isn’t going to make a huge difference if all other things are equal.


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## Mebaru (Jun 5, 2017)

It works in both ways actually. On fast flow trail longer travel bike will feel more sluggish but the more chunkier terrain gets the more you will appreciate additional travel in fork and suspension. Like many times mentioned in this topic - suspension design matters a lot. Longer travel bikes have different progressive curves, pedal-kick, anti-rise and anti-squad numbers that make plowing through rough terrain much comfortable.

In my experience every additional 20mm of rear travel make difference, if we're talking about modern bikes. Switching from 150mm bike to 170mm you can feel how much plush you get. Same for going from 170 enduro to 200mm DH bike.
Changing from Trek Fuel EX with 130mm to SC Hightower with 145mm makes you feel almost like on a full enduro bike. 

A rollover of bigger 29" wheels also help a lot btw. Also, heavy riders need more suspension travel.

It also not about the speed only unless you're racing. For example, if you're hitting rougher bikepark laps, you will have more comfort and fun on a longer travel bike while bike with less travel will build body fatigue and soreness much faster.

For me it started with a short-travel trail bike, than I got an enduro-bike and now I have a DH bike in pre-order.

To summarize: if you like hitting hard lines regularly, you will appreciate every inch of travel. If not - something in the middle like 140-150mm will add more comfort on rougher trails without sacrificing much.


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## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

More helpful info, thank you. 

Something I forgot about is the dual crown fork of a DH bike. I'm assuming that makes a noticeable difference? Can you talk about how much of a difference there is between a really good single crown fork and a dual crown? And what are the major changes to how the bike handles and performs? 

I've seen quite a few people turn there Megatower into a "Mini-DH" bike, by adding the Cascade Link, longer stroke shock, and a dual crown fork (with the travel around 190). That sounds like a REALLY good option for me possibly? The dual crown fork would not only add more travel, but I'm assuming it's stiffer and handles chunk, big jumps, drops, etc better than a single crown? Plus it will raise the front end a bit, lengthen the wheelbase, and decrease the HTA. All pluses when riding fast steep terrain. And then I could get the Cascade Link and have my 230x65 shock with it, to give it 180mm travel. Which also adds another 5mm of chainstay length, which is great for more stability. Plus all the other benefits of the Link it provides.

This isn't something I'm thinking about doing right this second, just doing research. But possibly this upcoming year, and just trying to decide if the cost of selling my current fork, then buying a new dual crown, and then buying the Cascade Link would make the bike feel and perform NOTICEABLY different? Or would it not be worth all that time and money?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

SuperWookie said:


> More helpful info, thank you.
> 
> Something I forgot about is the dual crown fork of a DH bike. I'm assuming that makes a noticeable difference? Can you talk about how much of a difference there is between a really good single crown fork and a dual crown? And what are the major changes to how the bike handles and performs?
> 
> ...


I've figured out that you're an analytical person who appreciates numbers but it's hard to quantify how something _feels_. Even if you had some machinery to measure that a dual crown fork is 10% stiffer than a single crown does that translate to 10% better feeling? See what I mean? All I can say is that a dual crown feels more precise and sturdy than a single crown but I don't know how to tell anyone exactly how much. Even if I spit out a figure like "it feels 50% better" I'm still just picking a number based on my subjective evaluation. Furthermore, it's not easy to ride a dual crown in the absence of the rest of a DH bike, so the effects of each design feature are cumulative. If you were to replace your single crown fork with a dual crown and touch nothing else, then you'd_ probably _feel an improvement but I wouldn't know how to tell you exactly how much better it would feel. Chances are you wouldn't feel as if you've wasted your money.

One change with a dual crown is that you can't turn sharp corners as easily since the stanchion will hit the frame, but I haven't encountered a trail situation yet where I blew the turn because I couldn't steer tightly enough. I'm sure corners like that are out there somewhere though.


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## SuperWookie (Feb 5, 2020)

Nat said:


> I've figured out that you're an analytical person who appreciates numbers but it's hard to quantify how something _feels_. Even if you had some machinery to measure that a dual crown fork is 10% stiffer than a single crown does that translate to 10% better feeling? See what I mean? All I can say is that a dual crown feels more precise and sturdy than a single crown but I don't know how to tell anyone exactly how much. Even if I spit out a figure like "it feels 50% better" I'm still just picking a number based on my subjective evaluation. Furthermore, it's not easy to ride a dual crown in the absence of the rest of a DH bike, so the effects of each design feature are cumulative. If you were to replace your single crown fork with a dual crown and touch nothing else, then you'd_ probably _feel an improvement but I wouldn't know how to tell you exactly how much better it would feel. Chances are you wouldn't feel as if you've wasted your money.
> 
> One change with a dual crown is that you can't turn sharp corners as easily since the stanchion will hit the frame, but I haven't encountered a trail situation yet where I blew the turn because I couldn't steer tightly enough. I'm sure corners like that are out there somewhere though.


Hey thanks for trying to explain. I don't think I need exact data about how much stiffer a dual crown fork is, or anything like that. Just a good sense of how much these changes would impact my riding. That's why I used simple terms like: "small, moderate, or a large changes." 

I understand the basics that a dual crown fork should feel stiffer and track better through rougher terrain. That more travel will help. That the Cascade Link will help. But what I'm trying to ascertain is are those changes small, moderate or large changes overall? And would it be worth the cost to add them or not really? So far nobody has been able to say definitively that adding a dual crown fork and/or the Cascade link with more travel would make a large difference that justifies the cost involved. So I think I'm just going to keep my bike how it is. And if someday I'm lucky enough to be able to have the funds available to purchase a full time DH bike, then I'll just go that route. 

Thanks again for trying to help, I do appreciate it


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## shakazulu12 (Jul 14, 2015)

I wouldn't worry about it unless you start going through CSU's etc. You are huge right? If you start going through CSU's, then yeah, DC will make sense for sure. Otherwise, keep riding the heck out of it while you gain more experience/skills. Then decide after another season. 

I have a Cascade link on my Megatower. I am running it with the RS air shock though. It did what they said it would and made setting up the bike a lot easier for me. Were I keeping the bike, I would get it tuned by Vorsprung to round everything out just that little bit more. 

I don't really know how or what you ride, so this advice is worth slightly less than what you paid for it


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

SuperWookie said:


> And if someday I'm lucky enough to be able to have the funds available to purchase a full time DH bike, then I'll just go that route.


That would probably be a good strategy that gets you what you're trying to emulate with those upgrades. I know you're not in the market right now but when you are YT has some XXL models that might fit you, and the price ($3499) is pretty amazing for a new bike. They sell an extra-long 29-er model (normally, but they're out of stock now).









YT US


Tues Base AL 27




us.yt-industries.com


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I rode 140/160 for a bit, went up to a 180/165 bike, but it felt less playful and kinda numbed the ride, so then backed down to a 130/120 bike, then I felt like I was out riding the bike often enough, so I went back up to 140/160, now both my bikes are 140/160 and I'm pretty satisfied.

I ride pretty rugged stuff," enduro", as well as techy stuff (Moab, Hurricane, etc..) so I ride up what I plan to ride down, I ride pretty fast on teh downs, but I still I want a bike that'll handle at low speeds.

If I rode DH and jump lines, I'd have another bike ... building a DJ now to use for messing around and light trials.

I'm tool old to get a DH bike, I'd surely poke my eye out


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> I rode 140/160 for a bit, went up to a 180/165 bike, but it felt less playful and kinda numbed the ride, so then backed down to a 130/120 bike, then I felt like I was out riding the bike often enough, so I went back up to 140/160, now both my bikes are 140/160 and I'm pretty satisfied.
> 
> I ride pretty rugged stuff," enduro", as well as techy stuff (Moab, Hurricane, etc..) so I ride up what I plan to ride down, I ride pretty fast on teh downs, but I still I want a bike that'll handle at low speeds.
> 
> ...


No one is too old to have a DH bike. 

Maybe too old to take a 20 foot gap, but never to have a DH bike.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

stripes said:


> Maybe too old to take a 20 foot gap


That’s what my orthopedic surgeon told me last year. I told him, “The hell with that!”


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

Nat said:


> That’s what my orthopedic surgeon told me last year. I told him, “The hell with that!”
> 
> View attachment 1961129


That's a great pic! You should get a decent sized blow up of that so you can appreciate it when you're older, coming from a 51 year old. That's really a cool pic in action.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Wheelspeed said:


> That's a great pic! You should get a decent sized blow up of that so you can appreciate it when you're older, coming from a 51 year old. That's really a cool pic in action.


Thank you!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

stripes said:


> No one is too old to have a DH bike.
> 
> Maybe too old to take a 20 foot gap, but never to have a DH bike.


If you aren’t going to go big, then a DH bike isn’t necessary, it’s not about age but what you ride.

Just as a DH bike is too much for climb and descend trail riding, a trail bike is not enough for going big at the park.

I can and do take my enduro bike to the park, but I know the bike’s limits and I stick to stuff that makes sense.

The OP is trying to decide if an enduro bike is enough bike for what he wants to ride.

If if we’re me, I’d maximize what I got, then if I start exceeding the capabilities of the bike, it’s time to upgrade to a dedicated DH bike.

I certainly subscribe to N + 1 bikes, but I also ride all my bikes and use them for their intended purpose.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Based on the pic, it looks like a long travel trail bike is working fine for ya 👍


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

I go through phases of rig/ no rig. A rig is certainly good to hit bike snapping ****. To send features that you would reluctant to send on your enduro bike. It gives you a faster eyethometer for speed as you can plow through features faster. 

You can then take that eye back to the enduro bike and once learnt, hit the features you where reluctant to hit otherwise. 

That said. If you dont have a shuttle bike park on your back door then a rig gathers dust most of the time as the enduro is much more fun on the ride up blaze down rides. 

Right now I dont have a rig. I'm fading back into want one though. The reality for me is that it would gather dust for most of the year.


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## eshew (Jan 30, 2004)

Agreed, DH bikes are a blast, but not very practical. I prefer natural chonk over the lift access stuff. The natural stuff is sadly quite a drive. The one lift access dh park we have isn't great, I'd rather just pedal my non dh bike up the local trails. 

That being said, the dh bike rarely gets used but when it's ridden in anger on the natural chonk it's SO much fun.


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

Suspension quality > suspension quantity.

I've got two bikes from the same manufacturer; they have the same suspension layout and very similar kinematics. One is a 150/130 trail bike, the other is a 180/165 enduro. I ride both on steep east coast woods trails and the trail bike is only a little less capable than the enduro in that terrain despite having far less suspension. The trail bike has a much better fork and slightly better rear shock than the enduro, so it's more consistent in how it responds to inputs, allowing me to think less about controlling the bike and focus on the line I'm following. I've just finished upgrading the enduro's fork to the same one I have on the trail bike, so I'm looking forward to blasting down the techy techy fun **** with a lot more suspension.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

Nurse Ben said:


> If you aren’t going to go big, then a DH bike isn’t necessary, it’s not about age but what you ride.
> 
> Just as a DH bike is too much for climb and descend trail riding, a trail bike is not enough for going big at the park.
> 
> ...


A DH bike is great for getting in more laps with less pain. Could i do it on a trail or enduro bike too? Sure, but if i can get in more laps and be less abused, I’ll pick the bigger bike any day. How much use does it get? Much less than the other two, and is expensive, but man, the DH bike works for me and lets me get away with stupid **** at speed. 

I have three bikes: a steel plus hardtail, an enduro bike, and a DH bike. While I could do everything on an enduro bike (which was originally the plan), it feels better having a few different bikes.


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## Twilight Error (Jan 12, 2004)

stripes said:


> A DH bike is great for getting in more laps with less pain. Could i do it on a trail or enduro bike too? Sure, but if i can get in more laps and be less abused, I’ll pick the bigger bike any day. How much use does it get? Much less than the other two, and is expensive, but man, the DH bike works for me and lets me get away with stupid **** at speed.
> 
> I have three bikes: a steel plus hardtail, an enduro bike, and a DH bike. While I could do everything on an enduro bike (which was originally the plan), it feels better having a few different bikes.


Options are _always_ good; I remember the days when there weren't any, and a "DH" fork was 100mm of rubber marshmallows in a noodley casing.

I went a slightly different direction; I have a 27.5" trail bike that I ride in the twisty twisty fun s**t, and a convertible 29" AM/Enduro that can do some twisty fun s**t (but not as well as the trail bike) OR have fun at the DH park on the small-to-medium jump lines & single black techy woods trails, depending on fork and shock configuration. I live in a 2nd floor apartment and don't have a lot of indoor bike storage space, so having a versatile rigthat wouldn't kill me going up or down the stairs was one of my criteria. The convertible option gives me a small footprint in exchange for a little effort in the workstand, and either configuration is light enough that I can move it in and out without much effort. The enduro setup isn't as good as a full DH bike at the park, but it fits the other limitations I've got to work within. 

Suspension is always a compromise, and sometimes those compromises extend beyond performance on the trail.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

stripes said:


> A DH bike is great for getting in more laps with less pain. Could i do it on a trail or enduro bike too? Sure, but if i can get in more laps and be less abused, I’ll pick the bigger bike any day. How much use does it get? Much less than the other two, and is expensive, but man, the DH bike works for me and lets me get away with stupid **** at speed.


WORD


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## matt4x4 (Dec 21, 2013)

Lots of great DH mtb's out there, I just looked at a few yesterday.


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