# Which lightweight axe or hatchet to pair with battery chainsaw?



## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

I have the Greenworks 40V 16" chainsaw and generally speaking it works great, but occasionally I need to cut out something big, like a 24-30 inch diameter oak or maple tree. For trees like this the battery life doesn't yield many cuts through the trunk, maybe only 2 or 3 depending on wood condition. While I have a spare battery, I've still run into situations where due to the tree position multiple cuts are needed to remove a section, and I've used up both batteries before I can move the cut piece. Sometimes the cut piece is wedged in place and there is a need to create clearance to get it out. Sometimes I use my folding Silky saw, or the axe head of a Rogue 55HX, but these both have limitations on larger logs. So does anyone have a recommendation as to whether an axe is needed or will a hatchet suffice, and if so which one is both lightweight and durable? Ideally I can fit it into the main compartment of my Evoc Trail Builder pack.


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Lightweight axes/hatchets don't work as well as heavier ones, but I understand the desire of not carrying a ton when you have to hump it out there.

Despite the 'space-age' look, the Fiskars hatchets are excellent at cutting, and pretty good as far as weight goes.


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## 11053 (Sep 19, 2009)

https://www.amazon.com/Estwing-Campers-Axe-Splitting-Construction/dp/B00002N5N7/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=estwing+hatchet&qid=1620611592&sr=8-14



An axe is always better, but as far as hatchets go, this is burly.


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## reddingnative (Jun 13, 2018)

Vote for the fiskars, but as a fellow trail enthusiast and wood cutter, I go directly to my stihl ms 271, it’s about 14lbs, and will pull a20” bar. Enough to do most the trail work I do. Plus I carry a spare 16” bar and chain to cut mysrlf out if ever needed. (We know that never happens) 

I have a few other saws, and use my echo 620 pro saw more on big jobs but it sucks to pack as it’s way bigger and its a few pounds heavier. I would use the stihl for the 24-30” trees you mentioned and carry a little extra fuel and oil in small metal containers or throw away thick plastic sports bottles. Just my two cents. I use a hatchet and handsaws a lot, but for the big stuff I’d rather just use the right tool, get it done and have it look pretty too.


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## ocnLogan (Aug 15, 2018)

Sectioning a 30in oak tree with a hatchet sounds exhausting.

If you are serious about that size, then I’d look at a small forest axe, or maybe even a boys axe. A boys axe is a 2.25lb head, and a 24-28in long handle, so they aren’t exactly small. A small forest axe is usually 1.5-1.75lbs in the head, and 19-22in in handle length in comparison.

You also might be able to find a folding bow/buck saw. The common length for those is like 18”, but they come in sizes up to like 4ft. I don’t know if there are many commercially available 4ft folding bow saws, but they are easy enough to make yourself (I made one a few years back with my dad from natural wood I found on the cabin property). The blades are light and cheap, but obviously a bit unwieldy (as you’d expect for a 4 ft long saw blade). 

But honestly it seems another battery for the chainsaw might be a bit easier to lug around, and more efficient when cutting.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Seems like bringing your sharpening kit would be the best bet.


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## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

Cutting with gas is so much easier!


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

The Fiskars hatchet is great for needing something lightweight, it can take a razor sharp edge and very durable for its weight. 

But it does not have the best steel. Plan on sharpening pretty often. 

My Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe is my favorite axe. Light enough to not be cumbersome, takes a great edge and holds it for a long time and can process a decent amount of wood.


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## EKram (Oct 30, 2020)

Super fast sharpening? Battery powered cutoff tool/grinder.

But another item to transport in/out. Or buy. I see a Cheapie HF $25 or lower if hit a coupon day. Usage is minimal, so battery is not a concern if not used for anything but sharpening, so I am Ok skimping on name brand expense.


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

You could try the bigger Silky saw. I want one so bad for the trails around here. It is hard work keeping the trails ridable.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Gas saw if possible.
If that's not possible, extra batteries for the saw would likely be easier then hatchet/hand saw. I find having a wedge helpful sometimes...

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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

wschruba said:


> Lightweight axes/hatchets don't work as well as heavier ones, but I understand the desire of not carrying a ton when you have to hump it out there.
> 
> Despite the 'space-age' look, the Fiskars hatchets are excellent at cutting, and pretty good as far as weight goes.





FrankS29 said:


> The Fiskars hatchet is great for needing something lightweight, it can take a razor sharp edge and very durable for its weight. But it does not have the best steel. Plan on sharpening pretty often.
> 
> My Gransfors Bruks Small Forest Axe is my favorite axe. Light enough to not be cumbersome, takes a great edge and holds it for a long time and can process a decent amount of wood.





11053 said:


> https://www.amazon.com/Estwing-Campers-Axe-Splitting-Construction/dp/B00002N5N7/ref=sr_1_14?dchild=1&keywords=estwing+hatchet&qid=1620611592&sr=8-14
> 
> 
> 
> An axe is always better, but as far as hatchets go, this is burly.


These are all good suggestions, thanks! The Fiskars does seem like a lightweight and inexpensive option, especially since I don't know how much I will use it. The Gransfors and Estwing are solid buy once for life options but heavier and more expensive. I'll have to think about it.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

ocnLogan said:


> Sectioning a 30in oak tree with a hatchet sounds exhausting.
> 
> If you are serious about that size, then I'd look at a small forest axe, or maybe even a boys axe. A boys axe is a 2.25lb head, and a 24-28in long handle, so they aren't exactly small. A small forest axe is usually 1.5-1.75lbs in the head, and 19-22in in handle length in comparison.
> 
> ...


Not talking about sectioning the tree, just taking out a wedge from maybe 1/4 of it at most, where one side is already saw cut. The small forest axe is a good suggestion.
I have a second (and third) battery for the saw, but they are heavier than a hatchet or small axe so I don't want to carry more than 1 extra.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

reddingnative said:


> Vote for the fiskars, but as a fellow trail enthusiast and wood cutter, I go directly to my stihl ms 271, it's about 14lbs, and will pull a20" bar. Enough to do most the trail work I do. Plus I carry a spare 16" bar and chain to cut myself out if ever needed. (We know that never happens)
> 
> I have a few other saws, and use my echo 620 pro saw more on big jobs but it sucks to pack as it's way bigger and its a few pounds heavier. I would use the stihl for the 24-30" trees you mentioned and carry a little extra fuel and oil in small metal containers or throw away thick plastic sports bottles. Just my two cents. I use a hatchet and handsaws a lot, but for the big stuff I'd rather just use the right tool, get it done and have it look pretty too.





pebbles said:


> Cutting with gas is so much easier!





Shark said:


> Gas saw if possible.
> If that's not possible, extra batteries for the saw would likely be easier then hatchet/hand saw. I find having a wedge helpful sometimes...


Yeah gas saw is not possible here, battery is just barely acceptable (it's a city park). The battery saw cutting performance is good, it's just the battery life that suffers on big trees. I don't want to bring more than 1 extra battery due to weight, and for the weight of a second extra battery I could bring a hatchet or small axe with no use limitations.


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## pebbles (Jan 13, 2009)

In that case, Gerber makes some good hatchets. I have a mid-size I use for smaller trees.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Here is one tree we recently dealt with that spurred me to think about this, a ~30 inch diameter maple.








Just barely big enough.









Not me, but while the Rogue 55HX (Pulaski style) was better than nothing, eventually it can't get down in the wedge because the hoe gets in the way, and swinging it at weird angles is difficult and I think a shorter handle tool would be better.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

JustMtnB44 said:


> These are all good suggestions, thanks! The Fiskars does seem like a lightweight and inexpensive option, especially since I don't know how much I will use it. The Gransfors and Estwing are solid buy once for life options but heavier and more expensive. I'll have to think about it.


If you're looking for something inexpensive and tough, the Fiskars is impossible to beat. I have the hatchet and one of their splitting axes. I have beaten the hell out of both of them, especially the splitting axe. Some very poorly aimed strikes when I was tired and I've smashed the handle on rounds. Little scuff on the finish was all that happened...

If it was a matter of weekend+ wilderness camping trips and I'm depending on an axe, my Gransfors Small Forest is guaranteed to be with me. Gransfors stuff is great if you want a "forever" axe that you can pass on to great grandchildren.

If you just want something inexpensive, effective and good quality the Fiskars axes are great tools.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

I just pulled the trigger on a 17" Gerber because the Fiskars were out of stock. I'm looking for something to hammer wedges in more than retrieving my blade though.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> You could try the bigger Silky saw. I want one so bad for the trails around here. It is hard work keeping the trails ridable.


I was going to say the same thing. The Katanaboy is an unreal foldable saw.
-I'm not sure about 30" trees but I have used one on a healthy 15+ inch Oak and it made mince-meat outta the thing! VERY impressed!!


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## tom tom (Mar 3, 2007)

Here's my problem...


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## Gummy Gloworm (May 9, 2021)

Silky Katanaboy 1000 or gas powered chainsaw?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Silky Katanaboy 1000 or gas powered chainsaw?


If I see them pedal down 6 miles of single track with that thing on their back... then I'll be impressed.


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

tom tom said:


> Here's my problem...
> View attachment 1929962


Bunny hop it...


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Weird, so the city doesn't allow a gas saw?

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Shark said:


> Weird, so the city doesn't allow a gas saw?


Not the OP, but some land management agencies just have weird or incomplete policies. Or just don't have established rules around them. Some people think "battery powered electric" is less dangerous when they are actually much more powerful than comparable size gas powered saws, they just run out of juice _much_ faster.

I've also been in areas where 2 stroke tools were prohibited due to habitat and FS not wanting engine sounds during mating season.


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## DMFT (Dec 31, 2003)

Gummy Gloworm said:


> Silky Katanaboy 1000 or gas powered chainsaw?


That guy needs a CR500 powered Hot-Saw!


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

pebbles said:


> In that case, Gerber makes some good hatchets. I have a mid-size I use for smaller trees.





Ogre said:


> I just pulled the trigger on a 17" Gerber because the Fiskars were out of stock. I'm looking for something to hammer wedges in more than retrieving my blade though.


I'm going to go with the 17" Gerber as well. It looks like the Gerber and Fiskars hatchets are the same anyway, except that Fiskars doesn't have a 17" chopping hatchet, only a splitting one. I figure the 17" will fit in my pack, isn't too heavy, has a long enough reach to get into a larger log if needed, and even use two handed grip if tired.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Shark said:


> Weird, so the city doesn't allow a gas saw?


Technically the policy for all city and county parks here is that volunteers are not allowed to use power tools. However the park managers for the city park I volunteer in the most have ok'ed battery powered tools, mostly because they are quiet and don't draw attention, but also because their worker crew is usually too busy to deal with fallen trees on singletrack and they recognize it's impractical for volunteers to only use hand tools. The county parks do not allow volunteers to use chainsaws at all, and will send workers to cut out fallen trees.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Gotcha. 
It would be nice if they could make it easier on you, after all, you are volunteering!

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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

JustMtnB44 said:


> The county parks do not allow volunteers to use chainsaws at all, and will send workers to cut out fallen trees.


This is fine so long as they actually... do it. We're dealing with Army Corp here and the local managers don't want us out there doing saw work and don't clear the trails in a timely fashion either. They just closed the trails after the last major event and after a few months, a bunch of rogue crews got it opened back up.


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## JustMtnB44 (Nov 8, 2004)

Ogre said:


> This is fine so long as they actually... do it. We're dealing with Army Corp here and the local managers don't want us out there doing saw work and don't clear the trails in a timely fashion either. They just closed the trails after the last major event and after a few months, a bunch of rogue crews got it opened back up.


Yeah, it used to be more of an issue, but now there are Rangers which will push them on it if not done in a timely fashion. However, the volunteer crews are still allowed to use hand tools to clear fallen trees, so several of them have taken up axe chopping as a hobby. One guy in particular really enjoys chopping out 24" diameter red oaks with an axe and using a come-along to move the pieces.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

JustMtnB44 said:


> Yeah, it used to be more of an issue, but now there are Rangers which will push them on it if not done in a timely fashion. However, the volunteer crews are still allowed to use hand tools to clear fallen trees, so several of them have taken up axe chopping as a hobby. One guy in particular really enjoys chopping out 24" diameter red oaks with an axe and using a come-along to move the pieces.


The scorpions are a local trail crew and they do a huge amount of clearing with 2 person crosscut saws.


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## threepin (Nov 2, 2006)

One thing that will really help with cutting large deadfall and eliminating binding and grounding the saw are plastic felling wedges- they make cutting much easier and safer- get at least 2 of say 8 or 10 inch


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

So I got that 18" Gerber hatchet and it's A+. We were clearing some pretty good sized logs... well big for me anyhow, they were bigger than the 25" bar on my saw and my blade got stuck... several times actually. I was doing my certification and I've honestly never had much issue with blades getting bound, but Sunday my blade got stuck hard 2-3 times. Don't have a ton of pictures, but this was the first one.

I wound up using the hatchet to pound in wedges to get the saw out the first time. The second one (not pictured) wasn't as deep, but had a crazy twist and the wedges didn't really help so I ended up just chopping the wood out on both sides of the blade until it was freed up.

It's perhaps a bit on the light side for pounding in wedges, but when you are carrying it half a mile in and out, it's always a bit of a compromise. The Gerber is just about the perfect size to fit into my old school HAWG Camelbak along with a couple cans of fuel, my wedges, and a few other odds and ends.


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## Gilarider (Jul 13, 2009)

Ogre said:


> So I got that 18" Gerber hatchet and it's A+. We were clearing some pretty good sized logs... well big for me anyhow, they were bigger than the 25" bar on my saw and my blade got stuck... several times actually. I was doing my certification and I've honestly never had much issue with blades getting bound, but Sunday my blade got stuck hard 2-3 times. Don't have a ton of pictures, but this was the first one.
> 
> I wound up using the hatchet to pound in wedges to get the saw out the first time. The second one (not pictured) wasn't as deep, but had a crazy twist and the wedges didn't really help so I ended up just chopping the wood out on both sides of the blade until it was freed up.
> 
> It's perhaps a bit on the light side for pounding in wedges, but when you are carrying it half a mile in and out, it's always a bit of a compromise. The Gerber is just about the perfect size to fit into my old school HAWG Camelbak along with a couple cans of fuel, my wedges, and a few other odds and ends.


I am no chainsaw expert, but I stopped getting my bar stuck once I started borecutting any deadfall that looks like it might bind up. It seems to work better than wedges, and it is less hassle. I wouldn't do it when you are getting certified, or supervised, but if you watch some videos about how to do it you can see it can be done safely.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Gilarider said:


> I am no chainsaw expert, but I stopped getting my bar stuck once I started borecutting any deadfall that looks like it might bind up. It seems to work better than wedges, and it is less hassle. I wouldn't do it when you are getting certified, or supervised, but if you watch some videos about how to do it you can see it can be done safely.


I was bore cutting the first time I got the blade stuck. It's my preferred way of doing bigger logs.

The second time was too thin to bore cut, it was about half of a 18" log. Just had a ton of energy in a big twist.

Hard to explain in a post without pictures.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

wedges and more expierence is what i am seeing in these pictures, is what is needed.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ransom208 said:


> wedges and more expierence is what i am seeing in these pictures, is what is needed.


Not disagreeing with you, but one of my instructors was fond of saying "the best wedge is experience". He carried them, but very rarely used wedges.

I'm still green so I need the hard plastic kind.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

steel wedges are for splitting firewood rounds. the plastic wedges you can cut thru. 
one thing to do is think about the pinch points and where is the weight going to go. sometimes diaganol cuts work better than just straight ones. sometimes you need to cut from the bottom to the top, not just the top, down. it comes in time, and know when to say no. your instructor is right, you don't need wedges all the time, but when you do, you do.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

I did not use wedges to drop the tree, but did when bucking it up into firewood rounds. The wedges stop it from pinching, as I was cutting thru.


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Hatchets and axes are nearly useless when clearing large deadfall in my experience. Used to carry a smaller Gerber camp axe but stopped doing that pretty quickly when it never got used. Large plastic felling wedges and understanding/visualizing the forces involved in a log will get you much further with ground or leaning trees. Don't cut wood that is in compression.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

aero901 said:


> Hatchets and axes are nearly useless when clearing large deadfall in my experience. Used to carry a smaller Gerber camp axe but stopped doing that pretty quickly when it never got used. Large plastic felling wedges and understanding/visualizing the forces involved in a log will get you much further with ground or leaning trees. Don't cut wood that is in compression.


Beg to differ.

They are quite useful. Mostly just for driving in those large wedges you refer to. But I've also used it to extract my saw which was pinched quite hard.

Understanding the forces is the single most important skill in cutting, but that's a skill you can really only develop over years of practice.

I wish I could limit cuts to wood that isn't in compression, but I don't have a lot of control over whether there is compression on the trees that fall on the trail (or for me lately those in the path of the trail we are building). The best I can do is try and relieve the compression elsewhere first, but sidewinders and complex stresses on can be hard to avoid when you have a lot of downed trees.


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## ransom208 (Mar 31, 2021)

Ogre said:


> So I got that 18" Gerber hatchet and it's A+. We were clearing some pretty good sized logs... well big for me anyhow, they were bigger than the 25" bar on my saw and my blade got stuck... several times actually. I was doing my certification and I've honestly never had much issue with blades getting bound, but Sunday my blade got stuck hard 2-3 times. Don't have a ton of pictures, but this was the first one.
> 
> I wound up using the hatchet to pound in wedges to get the saw out the first time. The second one (not pictured) wasn't as deep, but had a crazy twist and the wedges didn't really help so I ended up just chopping the wood out on both sides of the blade until it was freed up.
> 
> ...


why not just recut your cuts?


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

ransom208 said:


> why not just recut your cuts?


I don't follow you here. You mean to extract my saw blade or for something else?


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

I always keep a plastic wedge in the backpack when I drag the saw out.

I also only use a 16" bar.... Limits the size of the log to my skill level nicely 

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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

Ogre said:


> They are quite useful. Mostly just for driving in those large wedges you refer to.


I'll carry a rogue hoe vs an axe (for tree related trail repairs) or pick up a piece of wood/rock from the forest if sans rogue hoe to drive wedges. Don't usually need to drive wedges much to get them to do their job; a little more than hand tight for most situations like keeping a kerf open. Usually only need to drive them home if I've already gotten myself into a bad situation (ie stuck bar). I'll sometimes carry an extra bar and chain if cutting a lot of nasty wood (ie blowdown situations). Felling trees is a different story though; assuming we're talking about clearing leaning and mostly fallen trees here.

It's good practice to cut off as much limb weight from horizontal trees to reduce internal forces before starting to buck them (which it seems like you're doing). Cut off any accessible hanging limbs, especially ones that will cause axial twist, and concentrate on getting the tree to rest on the ground over a good portion of it's length first. This can be difficult if there are many tangled together which may be better left to a professional at that point.

The compression force I'm referring to is what causes pinched bars. There will always be compression and tension in a log that is not: 1) in a perfectly vertical and balanced position or 2) resting on ground that is equally supporting it's weight. In the axial direction, tension is pulling the wood fibers apart and compression pushes them together. The stresses are greatest along the outer most diameter of a log in the plane of bending. The tension wood will be in the convex side of a bend (start cut here) and compression wood in the concave side (pinch bar here).

Plunge cutting the middle of a log exploits this stress distribution as the inner wood isn't under much stress and most of it can be removed without causing the tree to break. However, this will cause a tree to react more quickly when cutting the leftover sections of wood if stresses are high. Twisting failures and ultra stuck bars are also likely if the plane of bending is misread during plunge cuts. I'll use plunge cuts occasionally when I want a tree to break quickly, like when needing to free it from a "stuck in canopy" situation, or sometimes during felling. I don't use plunge cuts much for bucking though because I like to see the wood moving during the cut and have time to react to it.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

This is our current project. Lots of steep side-slope, big wood. Haven't been up there since June due to fire restrictions, but the next one waiting for me is probably a 30" log on a similar slope.






Even if I wanted to leave the hatchet at home (I don't), I would bring it regardless because it's part of the gear we are required to bring with us to work on forest service land.


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## clockwork (Dec 9, 2006)

I didn't read through all the answers but I have cut a good number of tress that size with my 40v gmax 16" a new or newly sharpened chain is a must before tackling tress of that size as that will kill your batteries way faster. Anyways my backup thats with me all the time while doing trail work is the silky katana boy 500. Man I can tell you that the silky has paid for itself so many times over and I have cut some very large trees with it as well. It is always with me to save me if for some reason the chainsaw gets stuck. I also use it on smaller stuff as it usually one swipe back to cut branches around 2" in diameter. There has been many days where I choose it over the chainsaw.

After thought: BTW Have put a solid year on my katanboy and it still rips through the wood. I do have a spare blade and a file I have yet to use for it as well.


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## FranckeyGloom (12 mo ago)

Eternal problems of quality and weight... we need to find a more optimal option so as not to transport heavy loads...


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

<delete>


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

What did they say about it? 

I assume it would be warrantied? 

Any steel tool could have an internal flaw that once it gets a few shocks from impact it can just let go.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

FrankS29 said:


> What did they say about it?
> 
> I assume it would be warrantied?
> 
> Any steel tool could have an internal flaw that once it gets a few shocks from impact it can just let go.


i bought it on 10/31 and didn’t use it until recently. 90 day warranty and I’m out of luck. Thing still has the original milling marks on it. 😡


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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Bassmantweed said:


> i bought it on 10/31 and didn’t use it until recently. 90 day warranty and I’m out of luck. Thing still has the original milling marks on it. 😡


Yeah, that is BS.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

FrankS29 said:


> What did they say about it?
> 
> I assume it would be warrantied?
> 
> Any steel tool could have an internal flaw that once it gets a few shocks from impact it can just let go.


I'd try emailing them, hopefully someone will send you a replacement.

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## FrankS29 (Oct 23, 2019)

Shark said:


> I'd try emailing them, hopefully someone will send you a replacement.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk


I would hope they would. 90 day warranty on a tool like that is pretty weak. 

They aren't cheap, but all of my Gransfors Bruk axes come with a 20 year warranty. Thankfully I've never had to use it.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

They actually JUST emailed me back and said in this case they would replace it AND give me a free set of gloves.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

Nice. 

Things break, it happens. But it's all in how the company handles the support after the fact.

For me, that will determine if I'm going to buy another one of their products or not in the future.

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## bpressnall (Aug 25, 2006)

.


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