# Compact tandem bike



## hroom (Apr 3, 2021)

My wife and I are looking for our first tandem. We rode tandems before, but always borrowed and would like to have one for occasional rides (we have our separate bikes as well) on paved and gravel roads, mostly flat or with gentle slope. We are looking to buy a used one to ride and eventually get a better feeling about what kind of tandem we want later on.

Has anyone experience with compact tandem such as this one?










Compact Competition 21S 26" Unisex Tandem - Aluminium - Speedcross - Tandems - Special Bikes - Bicycles

Here's the manufactures' website (archived copy, because current website is missing the images):
TANDEM COMPACT CROSS | SpeedCross

I like the compactness of it, since it makes it easier to store and put on a car roof carrier if needed. But I'm worried about the the standover height for the stoker, which is approx. 80 cm according to the picture. My wife is 163 cm and I believe 80 cm is high in respect to her inseam. Another thing that bothers me is whether the suspension seat post will fit to make stoker's ride less bumpy.

I'll appreciate any advice to make our first tandem choice better.


----------



## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

I would try that before committing to buy one. The stoker seat is behind the rear axle. This seems like it would make for really unusual handling. The stoker's weight would make the rear axle a fulcrum point, lightening the front tire.


----------



## preventec47 (Oct 31, 2020)

I love that design and think it is brilliant ! Unfortunately it appears that it was unsuccessful if it has already been removed from the website. I cant tell what the American dollar equivalent would be but if it was built using best technology frames etc. it would not only be smaller and more compact but also lightweight ! Man I really love that concept ! I thought I had seen everything possible with tandems and now this blows me away.


----------



## hroom (Apr 3, 2021)

MattiThundrrr said:


> I would try that before committing to buy one. The stoker seat is behind the rear axle. This seems like it would make for really unusual handling. The stoker's weight would make the rear axle a fulcrum point, lightening the front tire.


Thank you for the advice. I haven't thought of the effect sitting behind rear axle can have. When you say unusual handling, I get an uneasy feeling this might translate into worse contact of the front tyre with the surface and thus more potential to lose traction. Even though I like to compactness of it, there _might_ be good reasons most tandems aren't designed like that.



preventec47 said:


> I love that design and think it is brilliant ! Unfortunately it appears that it was unsuccessful if it has already been removed from the website. I cant tell what the American dollar equivalent would be but if it was built using best technology frames etc. it would not only be smaller and more compact but also lightweight ! Man I really love that concept ! I thought I had seen everything possible with tandems and now this blows me away.


It hasn't been removed from their website, just the photos are missing: TANDEM COMPACT CROSS | SpeedCross. As far as I see in the online shops, it's still sold, both in mountainbike-ish and in trekking-ish design (TANDEM COMPACT | SpeedCross).
As for the price and lightness: It's priced around 1000 eur in Europe, but of course they aren't using exactly top tier components - rear rim brake, front mechanical disc brake, for example. It weights about 20 kg, which is almost the same as the "full-sized" Lapierre tandem mountain bike.


----------



## preventec47 (Oct 31, 2020)

MattiThundrrr said:


> I would try that before committing to buy one. The stoker seat is behind the rear axle. This seems like it would make for really unusual handling. The stoker's weight would make the rear axle a fulcrum point, lightening the front tire.


 No you are WRONG. The seat is located a bit past the rear axle but the rider center of gravity while bent over and holding handlebars would cancel it out. Even still, the stoker usually weighs 75 or more pounds less than the captain and we might be talking about just a few pounds ie way less than ten that might lighten the front wheel when the stoker sits straight up. I think this Tandem design is GENIUS. Of course it would be great to hear from someone who rode one but if they really built it with best components and frame material, I bet they could get this bike down to thirty pounds. That would be unbelievable ! ! Besides I spent my entire youth hauling around buddies on the rear rack of my
Flyer bicicle and was no big deal as to the effect on handling.


----------



## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

The CG would DEFINITELY be further back than a traditional tandem, regardless of how much less the stoker weighs. The entire rider weight on a prober tandem is between the axles. On this design, it WILL shift CG back, lightening the front wheel considerably. I'm not saying it would make the bike unrideable, I am saying it would have an adverse effect on handling, similar to the Flyer of your youth. I rode a BMX with a passenger on the front pegs. Rideable, but handling definitely changed.


----------



## Peter1970 (Jul 18, 2021)

Hi. Yes, I have this exact model of tandem. It is a "donkey back" tandem, apparently used many years ago for pacing cycle track races but were replaced by a derny. There are a few pros and cons compared to a normal tandem. The big advantage is it is short so easily fits inside a SUV or on the back of a car since it is only about 20cm longer than a normal bike. It was also lighter than my previous tandem, but I guess it depends what you are comparing it to. The stoker position isn't cramped, but be aware that the seat post doesn't have much adjustment. You get a long post which you have to cut to size and then you have a couple inches adjustment after than. You cannot mount rear panniers, so you either have to get front ones, or just get a basket. However when you put it up on the stand, the front wheel is in the air which due to the panniers or basket can turn the wheel and cause the bike to fall over. I have connected a spring which restricts the extreme rotation of the front wheel to stop this. The biggest downside is starting on a steep incline since depending on your relative weights the front wheel can lift since the stoker cg is already close to the rear axle, you are accelerating which makes rotation about the rear axle worse. For us, the front wheel feels very light on slopes of about 15%, so other than that it isn't a problem. On very steep slopes we consciously lean forward to improve the handling. Like I say, starting on steep inclines is more of a problem. The Italian company shipped mine to the UK where I live.
I would recommend them purely since it makes transporting the tandem to where you wish to cycle very easy.


----------



## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

MattiThundrrr said:


> The CG would DEFINITELY be further back than a traditional tandem, regardless of how much less the stoker weighs. The entire rider weight on a prober tandem is between the axles. On this design, it WILL shift CG back, lightening the front wheel considerably. I'm not saying it would make the bike unrideable, I am saying it would have an adverse effect on handling, similar to the Flyer of your youth. I rode a BMX with a passenger on the front pegs. Rideable, but handling definitely changed.


wrong. this design type was used in paceline training for years


----------



## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

127.0.0.1 said:


> wrong. this design type was used in paceline training for years


From above, experienced owner:


Peter1970 said:


> The biggest downside is starting on a steep incline since depending on your relative weights the front wheel can lift since the stoker cg is already close to the rear axle, you are accelerating which makes rotation about the rear axle worse. For us, the front wheel feels very light on slopes of about 15%, so other than that it isn't a problem. On very steep slopes we consciously lean forward to improve the handling. Like I say, starting on steep inclines is more of a problem.


----------



## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Wow, I've never seen a bike like that! I'd love to take a look at the rear bottom bracket/crank configuration. I do wonder how it would handle with so much weight over the back wheel--but maybe it's fine. I wish that I could take one for a spin to find out!


----------



## Dobertens (Apr 22, 2020)

My wife and I got these Schwinn tandems last year, obviously not e-powered.
It's a wonderfully designed lightweight tandem bicycle with urban tires. Great for a smooth and comfortable ride and easy to take anywhere.


----------



## PhilWynn (8 mo ago)

is it comfortable to use tandem bikes? I've never tried, but would like to, with my wife


----------



## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

I have a vintage tandem for cruises that is a HOOT! Exactly as comfortable as a regular bike. My wife is just as enthusiastic as i am about it. We have no plans for trail riding with it though, so I can't speak to that end.


----------

