# 3-speed and drum brake questions



## DeaconPatrick (Nov 6, 2017)

Hello all! I'm new to the forum though not biking. I don't do nich riding, but the closest description that fits my riding is cross country with kit for enjoying it along the way and running errands on the way home (I bike to the trails and backer roads via (mostly) back roads), as well as bikepacking with 50 pounds of gear including food and water. Bike: Rivendell Hunqapillar, 62cm, 700c. I live on Pikes Peak, CO, USA, so terrain is up or down with a 50 foot flat section somewhere, but I can't find it again. My riding style is not agressive, but trails are jouncy and roads washboarded. Current brakes are cantis and its a 1x9, 38 x 12-36 with a 24t granny I can manually shift to (no front derailer).

Goal: winterize and simplify my bike and riding in a way that works all year round for all I do. I can't find much info on 3-speed hubs, drumb brakes, and bikepacking, trail riding except here.

Plan: Convert to Sturmey-Archer 3-speed 90mm drum brake rear, 90mm drum brake dyno front hubs on cliffhanger rims, possibly converting to 650b to allow for 2.25" tires (and possibly more). Rear hub: XL-RD3. (3.8 lbs) Front hub: XL-FDD (3lbs). Gearing would be 40/22, with gear inches of 37/50/67.

Note: I have a ss that I ride these same trails with, so I know well what works for me and I've test ridden the exact gears listed above on my current set-up to know it's what I want.

Questions (lots, sorry):
- Drum brakes and mountain riding?
- Drum brakes and jouncy trails/washboard backroads?
- durability of SA 3-speed hub?
- field ridable if breaks?
- field servisability?
- can I run a 24t chain ring w/ chain tensioner (needs to cover 18t range) to manually shift to loaded biking gears? If so, can the hub handle the torque? this would give me a low gear in the low 20's.
- how do SAs handle torque of mountain climbing?
- Other recomendations for accomplishing the same thing? 
- Anything else I should be asking?

Thanks!

With abandon,
Patrick
Biking website: https://thegrid.ai/withabandon/


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

DeaconPatrick said:


> ...Questions (lots, sorry):
> - Drum brakes and mountain riding?
> - Drum brakes and jouncy trails/washboard backroads?
> - durability of SA 3-speed hub?
> ...


*Drum brakes and mountain riding? - Drum brakes and jouncy trails/washboard backroads?*

Very reliable, the brakes will probably outlive the bike.

A lot of my winter riding is done in gritty mud and I also have quite a few boggy bits to traverse on most rides because i am not necessarily on a trail.

My Pugsley set up for 24 hour winter races in mud, slush, and deep snow.



I do a winter 24 hour solo every year and because I ride self-supported I have minimised everything that would cause me to spend dead time in the pits.

After a couple of years where I wore out my disk brake pads and had to spend ages changing them in subzero with fingers like sausages, I thought there had to be a better way. So I gave the drums a go. They have now done 5 of these races plus general winter riding in foul conditions and the linings are barely worn.

I'm very happy with them. They do not have the absolute pitch-you-over-the-handlebars power of a good disk, but the braking is more than adequate if you have to use them hard. Additionally on sketchy surfaces the modulation is very good. I'd sooner use these on ice than a disk.

My 1x1



This actually got drums first, after a 24 hour where I wore a new set of rims to wafer thinness. (Obviously I'm a cowardly brake dragger  ).

Recommendations: 70mm is big enough for the back, but definitely 90mm on the front.

Two provisos: use good quality outer that does not compress (if the brake isn't performing, this is the most likely culprit, not the brake); use the Sturmey-Archer brake levers - they are long enough to apply sufficient force compared to standard mtb levers.

*Durability of SA 3-speed hub? - field ridable if breaks? - field servisability?
*

If you are planning doing jumps and big drops, I wouldn't use the 3 speeds because they have a hollow axle that is also slotted internally, so I would not be surprised if that bent.

I can't imagine a scenario where you need to field service one. Unlike other hub gears, individual internal parts are available.

They are dead reliable so long as you adjust and operate them properly. If you don't then you can damage them.

First way to damage them is by twiddling the adjustments instead of setting to the mark. The other way is to try to change gear under pressure like a derailleur, you have to slightly slacken your foot pressure to allow the gears to mesh.

Note that they are not sealed. It is possible for water to ingress via the gear change rod. Unless you are submerging it, this is not really a problem.

I have never broken a 3 speed, and I have them on several of my vintage bike collection which work perfectly despite being over 80 years old, and with likely mileages in the high tens of thousands.

I have not used a 3 speed on an mtb, but I have on what we would now call a gravel bike. No problems.

*Can the hub handle the torque?*

I am not aware of any restriction and the lowest I have gone is a 2:1 ratio. However S-A sell one version of the hub with a cassette mount so obviously that will be getting used with at least a 32 max rear, so I wouldn't worry about it. They are also used on industrial bikes.


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## DeaconPatrick (Nov 6, 2017)

Thank you, Velobike! Having seen your previous posts as I searched, I was hoping you would respond. You’ve given me hope that this solution I keep being told is insane, may in fact be more sane than what I’m riding now. Not that that says much. Grin.

How much time do you put into shop maintance of the brakes and IGH?

With abadnon,
Patrick


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

DeaconPatrick said:


> Thank you, Velobike! Having seen your previous posts as I searched, I was hoping you would respond. You've given me hope that this solution I keep being told is insane, may in fact be more sane than what I'm riding now. Not that that says much. Grin.
> 
> How much time do you put into shop maintance of the brakes and IGH?
> 
> ...


Adjust the cables as needed. That's about it.

After 3 years I thought I'd inspect the linings in preparation for the next 24 hour race. There was virtually no wear and they look much the same now. I'll be prepping the bike for January's race soon, but I doubt I will have to do anything. Maybe a new chain (fenders extend chain and BB life) and check the 5 year old cables.



One thing I forgot to mention. A bit of prep when they are new helps. Put some engineer's blue on the linings, assemble the wheel, spin it, and apply the brake very lightly.

This will reveal any high spots on the linings. High spots mean the braking won't be optimum until they are worn down. This is not a manufacturing fault, but a result of the wheel build. The spoke tension during the wheel build can slightly alter the drum shape.

A bit of a touch up with emery or a file, a few reassembles and you'll get it right. (I learned to do this back in the day of drum brake motorbikes.) Or if you're brave, just chuck a teaspoon of gritty mud in there and go for a ride.

It is not an essential procedure, the brake will work fine, just need some more pressure until it is bedded in, but because it wears very slowly will take some time.

From what I have observed though, disk pads have improved considerably over the last few years, so take that into account. What I do know for sure is how hassle free the drum has been.

BTW I have not used a 3 speed on this bike, which is singlespeed. I would have no compunction about using one on a general purpose mtb, but I don't do jumps or big drops.


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## DeaconPatrick (Nov 6, 2017)

Thank you!


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