# XT vs XTR in terms of durability



## Nakkoush (Nov 22, 2012)

How does Shimano XTR compare to XT in terms of durability?
I head that XTR is not only lighter than the XT but it wears out much quicker than the XT !!
Your comments are appreciated


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## [email protected] (Sep 3, 2012)

if u are not any pro racer, stick with XT. and when i say XT i mean full brake set (including resin pads, rotors, specific mineral oil etc...). U can find them all in a Shimano XT manual


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## Nakkoush (Nov 22, 2012)

Actually I'm buying a bike from bikesdirect... My concern is mainly for the durability.. xtr shimano bike vs xt bike, in addition I'm not a pro racer...
plus or minus 2 pounds is not an issue as long as durability is more guaranteed.


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## Timeless (Mar 23, 2007)

I have always viewed XT as more durable than XTR. 
My under standing is XTR sacrifices durability to reduce weight but XTR is high end racing.


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## MartinS (Jan 31, 2004)

_Generally _speaking, they should be about the same durability wise, XTR uses more expensive materials and construction to get lighter weight at the same or greater strength. My experience having both (current versions) XT and XTR equipped bikes is that some xtr parts like the cranks are noticeably stiffer, and that the higher grade bushings in the derailleurs and shifters seem to last longer. Brakes wise, there isn't a ton of difference in braking quality or weight between XT and XTR in the new models, long term durability (for me) is still unknown.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Exercise some caution in buying from bikesdirect - give the spec a really close read. They're often very optimistic in the spec level they assign to their bikes.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

I've owned plenty of both and you can't go wrong with either. XTR is *not* weaker. It's just as durable but lighter and more refined. Is it worth the extra money? That's up to you to decide.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

MartinS said:


> _Generally _speaking, they should be about the same durability wise, XTR uses more expensive materials and construction to get lighter weight at the same or greater strength. My experience having both (current versions) XT and XTR equipped bikes is that some xtr parts like the cranks are noticeably stiffer, and that the higher grade bushings in the derailleurs and shifters seem to last longer. Brakes wise, there isn't a ton of difference in braking quality or weight between XT and XTR in the new models, long term durability (for me) is still unknown.


There's your best advice. Both are roughly equivalent in durability but XTR has to jump through hoops to get it light and durable which is why it costs so much.


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Nakkoush said:


> How does Shimano XTR compare to XT in terms of durability?
> I head that XTR is not only lighter than the XT but it wears out much quicker than the XT !!
> Your comments are appreciated


For what it's worth, XTR is covered under warranty for 3 years, while XT is only covered for 2 years.


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## sauprankul (Sep 6, 2012)

I've heard that there's XTR Trail and XTR race. Race wears out very quickly, but is the lightest of all.


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## Nakkoush (Nov 22, 2012)

that's what I'm also aware of...


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Nakkoush said:


> How does Shimano XTR compare to XT in terms of durability?
> I head that XTR is not only lighter than the XT but it wears out much quicker than the XT !!
> Your comments are appreciated


XTR is the lightest stuff they make. However being light does not mean durable. If you are serious racer you need light weight stuff and can always have your team bike mechanic replace parts between the races. XT is my vote for the best balance between performance, weight, durability, and of course cost.

Unless you really need XTR weight savings stick with XT.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

sauprankul said:


> I've heard that there's XTR Trail and XTR race. Race wears out very quickly, but is the lightest of all.


I'd stop saying things "wear out" because it's simply not accurate. Nothing Shimano makes is disposable, well not at the top end of the spectrum. XTR trail stuff is made to be more durable and more functional on so called trail bikes while XTR "race" stuff carries on the tradition that XTR has been known for over the years. It is untrue to say that XTR anything wears out quickly unless you had some data to back it up.

If anyone is truly worried about longevity then they should just go with XT and appease their skeptical soul.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

In the case of bikes direct, it doesn't matter. The wear items people are generally referring to are cassette, chain and chain rings, which are wear items and are all more expensive than XT - and do wear faster than XT. The Bikesdirect bikes do not use XTR, cassette, chain or chain rings. The only thing you get XTR are the derailleurs and shifters, which are the same durability as XT.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

And in the case of true full XT vs XTR comparison wheels and all, you're looking at $1k to save a pound. And double the cost to replace wear items.


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## limba (Jan 9, 2004)

Not related to the OP but thread related. I had an XTR rear derailleur on my cross bike for 9-10 years. One day it just stopped shifting. I'd say I got my money's worth out of it. None of my XT rear derailleurs have lasted more than five years. I would still say that's durable enough.

You really can't go wrong with either.


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## mitzikatzi (Sep 9, 2008)

This question was asked in the Beginner's Corner. Deore is plenty good enough for a "beginner Bike" SLX if you have a bigger wallet.

A common theme seems to be SLX offers the best compromise of cost/weight/performance. 

Having a Full XT or XTR group set won't make you a better or faster rider (unless maybe you are an elite rider)


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

XT is a lot more bang for the buck. You can almost buy two XT components for one XTR component. I used to buy XTR and X0(sram) but now all I buy are XT and X9 as they are cheaper to replace, rebuild, etc.... with very similar performance.

Keep in mind that its a mountain bike, and unless your a weight weenie racer, rich, or get amazing deals, the higher the range, the less cost to performance benefits you see.


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

sauprankul said:


> I've heard that there's XTR Trail and XTR race. Race wears out very quickly, but is the lightest of all.





zebrahum said:


> I'd stop saying things "wear out" because it's simply not accurate. Nothing Shimano makes is disposable, well not at the top end of the spectrum. XTR trail stuff is made to be more durable and more functional on so called trail bikes while XTR "race" stuff carries on the tradition that XTR has been known for over the years. It is untrue to say that XTR anything wears out quickly unless you had some data to back it up.
> 
> If anyone is truly worried about longevity then they should just go with XT and appease their skeptical soul.


Just to clarify regarding XTR Trail vs XTR Race:

XTR Race isn't any less durable than XTR Trail, except maybe for the wheels. The weight difference comes from the cranks (double for Race, triple for Trail), and also a couple small features that are on XTR Trail, but left off of XTR Race to save weight. The brake levers on XTR Race are slightly smaller and they also lack the little lever adjustment knob that is found on XTR Trail levers. At the caliper end, XTR Trail pads have cooling fins, whereas the XTR Race calipers come with pads that don't have the cooling fins. Technically, the caliper is actually the same between XTR Race and XTR Trail. It's the pads that are different.

If you're counting pedals, the Trail pedals have a platform, whereas the Race pedals don't.

The derailleurs, shifters, and chains are all the same between the two groups, except I'm not sure if the front derailleurs are double or triple specific.

Again, I wouldn't worry too much about longevity, considering Shimano offers a longer warranty on XTR than they do the other groups.



Guerdonian said:


> XT is a lot more bang for the buck. You can almost buy two XT components for one XTR component. I used to buy XTR and X0(sram) but now all I buy are XT and X9 as they are cheaper to replace, rebuild, etc.... with very similar performance.
> 
> Keep in mind that its a mountain bike, and unless your a weight weenie racer, rich, or get amazing deals, the higher the range, the less cost to performance benefits you see.


This advice is spot on. I've spent loads of time on SLX, XT, and XTR and there isn't that much difference in performance. XT is by far the best bang for your buck.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

zebrahum said:


> I'd stop saying things "wear out" because it's simply not accurate. Nothing Shimano makes is disposable, well not at the top end of the spectrum. XTR trail stuff is made to be more durable and more functional on so called trail bikes while XTR "race" stuff carries on the tradition that XTR has been known for over the years. It is untrue to say that XTR anything wears out quickly unless you had some data to back it up.
> 
> If anyone is truly worried about longevity then they should just go with XT and appease their skeptical soul.


^^^this

Durability is probably about the same. XTR performs better underload than its downline, you'd get better hill shifting than XT for sure. That said I don't know many XTR users who shift like that.

Wearing out parts is such a non issue as I'm still trying to wear out the pully on my XTR 951

XTR line are more for performance, ergonomic, weight, looks and obviously bling, but fast wear and durability is not the issue. If you crash and break a lever or derailleur it would be because of the crash not the component line.

Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

AndrwSwitch said:


> Exercise some caution in buying from bikesdirect - give the spec a really close read. They're often very optimistic in the spec level they assign to their bikes.


I can't stand when people make statements like this. The talk down about bikes direct for what spec level they call their bike but all one has to do is click on the bike and they give you a COMPLETE list of the parts on the bike. IT's not like they are trying to hide anything.

As someone else noted, generally with bikes direct the description usually means the shifters and deraileurs that you are getting. you typically get a 3rd party crank and then a lower spec cassette and chain. Also Brakes may leave something to be desired, but lets be honest, at the prices they are selling them for, they are very solid bikes.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Here we go again. Mr. My opinion is the fact. Go troll some other site or stay in bd's forum. 

What you're gonna try to break my hands again? 


Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

mimi1885 said:


> Here we go again. Mr. My opinion is the fact. Go troll some other site or stay in bd's forum.
> 
> What you're gonna try to break my hands again?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


What the **** is your problem? You are a punk. If you got a problem with my opinion, thats fine, but kindly present some kind of useful information to back yourself up instead of talking **** and stop taking this thread off topic. In this case, my opinon is a FACT. Bikes direct lists every part that goes onto their bikes. Nothing is being hidden. now go back to STFU.


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## 411898 (Nov 5, 2008)

I've had a few different bikes built up with some of the parts from the last 3 generations (960, 970, 985) of XTR. Also used quite a bit of the last 3 gens of XT. All parts functioned smoothly and lasted long.

Either way, you won't be disappointed, it's all good.

My current bike has a combo of XTR/XT and it's great, too.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

ambassadorhawg said:


> I've had a few different bikes built up with some of the parts from the last 3 generations (960, 970, 985) of XTR. Also used quite a bit of the last 3 gens of XT. All parts functioned smoothly and lasted long.
> 
> Either way, you won't be disappointed, it's all good.
> 
> My current bike has a combo of XTR/XT and it's great, too.


Yeah, unlike other brands top shelf XTR usually are not much lighter than XT, slx, etc. If you are looking for significant weight save, you may not find it. A combo XTR/XT perform really well. I have a XTR 970 dual lever that I switch the caliper to XT, couldn't be happier.

Sent from my iPhone 4s using Tapatalk


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

cpfitness said:


> I can't stand when people make statements like this. The talk down about bikes direct for what spec level they call their bike but all one has to do is click on the bike and they give you a COMPLETE list of the parts on the bike. IT's not like they are trying to hide anything.
> 
> As someone else noted, generally with bikes direct the description usually means the shifters and deraileurs that you are getting. you typically get a 3rd party crank and then a lower spec cassette and chain. Also Brakes may leave something to be desired, but lets be honest, at the prices they are selling them for, they are very solid bikes.


Funny, you are saying the same thing Andrew said, yet you can't stand it.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

mimi1885 said:


> Funny, you are saying the same thing Andrew said, yet you can't stand it.


um no, thats not remotely close to the same thing he said. but I already know your reading comprehension completely sucks. keep on trolling the beginner forum Sandusky.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

cpfitness said:


> um no, thats not remotely close to the same thing he said. But i already know your reading comprehension completely sucks. Keep on trolling the beginner forum sandusky.


wtf is wrong with you? I read what you wrote and it's disgusting - you should be ashamed of yourself. Listen here, do you have any idea who you are writing to?

You are so lucky this is the internet and the worst thing we can do is reverse look up your ip address and give it our friends who run the internet!

They are watching everywhere you go on the internet. I already know where you've been in the past half-hour. You are disgusting. I can only imagine the type of person you are. Who looks at that filth? My friends who run the internet are already tracking down your mom to give her your internet browser logs!

You and your bike make me sick!


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

wmac said:


> wtf is wrong with you? I read what you wrote and it's disgusting - you should be ashamed of yourself. Listen here, do you have any idea who you are writing to?
> 
> You are so lucky this is the internet and the worst thing we can do is reverse look up your ip address and give it our friends who run the internet!
> 
> ...


lol, ummm okay. have another one


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Don't play dumb. We're watching you. Expect a call from your mom within the hour.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

whos the giver and who's the receiver in your relationship with mimi?


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Hey, watch it you off brand bike riding troll.


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

This is what this genius think is a solution to pinch flat, go figure.


cpfitness said:


> going tubeless is a $600 investment, putting proper amount of air in tires is free. this one is a no brainer


what?? Get a clue.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Just to prove to you that my friends have taken control of your Internet, we found this picture of you and your friends in your iPhoto library:


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## sauprankul (Sep 6, 2012)

wmac, is that 4 real?

Better log off... no place is safe.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

This thread has gone a bit sideways.



cpfitness said:


> As someone else noted, generally with bikes direct the description usually means the shifters and deraileurs that you are getting. you typically get a 3rd party crank and then a lower spec cassette and chain. Also Brakes may leave something to be desired, but lets be honest, at the prices they are selling them for, they are very solid bikes.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

On a bit of a tangent, I have a road bike I bought back in 2000. It was advertised as having 105 components. When I bought it, it had the shifters, derailleurs, crank, bottom bracket, brakes, hubs, I think even the cassette and chain. I don't think there was anything else offered in the 105 set at the time.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

mimi1885 said:


> This is what this genius think is a solution to pinch flat, go figure.
> 
> what?? Get a clue.


stop polluting this guys threads with off topic posts. stop stalking me. Why don't you bring up the full context of that statement jackass. so I can prove myself right again.


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## sauprankul (Sep 6, 2012)

Anyhows, I think the verdict is that XT for "bang for your buck" and XTR for more longevity and less weight.
But for a beginner, either is too much.


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## voodoo5 (Feb 2, 2011)

To sum up, XTR is the best bang for your buck, XT is good for beginners, and X7 is a perfect balance.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

sauprankul said:


> I've heard that there's XTR Trail and XTR race. Race wears out very quickly, but is the lightest of all.


Race does not wear any more quickly. It just has slightly different features - like servo-wave in the brake.

In my experience XTR is more durable - bearings in shifters, better alloy on crankarms, better bushings in derailleur. But both are quite robust indeed.

As far as functionality, I only would pick XTR shifters, and cranks for the sole reason of 172.5mm option and narrower stance. If going for XT, I would rather pick SLX for cassette, cranks, brakes, and probably the new Zee for rear derailleur, as it has a short cage option (did not try it yet, but what could be wrong). SLX front derailleur for the double/short cage option.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

I think I own some of this confusion as a result of my Noob buyers guide. I re-read it and I see it can be interpreted as XTR race is less durable than trail and I was referring to the entire group to include wheels. I also made the statement that XTR wears out more quickly rhan other groups and is expensive to replace when I was referring to the chain rings, chain and cassette. I cannot edit it or make changes. I'm sorry.

As for the OP, the fact of the matter is the question at hand is irrelevant because he is looking at a Bikesdirect bike and it doesn't have XT or XTR chain, chain rings or cassette or brakes for that matter.

OP, it doesn't fvcking matter.


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## sauprankul (Sep 6, 2012)

wmac said:


> it doesn't fvcking matter.


Just get the best bike you can afford.

And here's the best XTR bike I could find.
Front Derailleur	XTR
Rear Derailleur	XTR
Shifters XTR
Cassette/Freewheel	XT
Chain	KMC


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

wmac said:


> As for the OP, the fact of the matter is the question at hand is irrelevant because he is looking at a Bikesdirect bike and it doesn't have XT or XTR chain, chain rings or cassette or brakes for that matter.


Yes, first thing on my bikesdirect bike that had to go had been horrible Avid Ultimate brakes. And I also sold carbon FSA crankset and replaced with XTR for less money I sold FSA for. This bike is now with Formula RX brakes, but 2012 XT brakes are the best brakes ever. KMC chain is good.

Great deal anyway.


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## SimpleJon (Mar 28, 2011)

Wow this thread is worse than the 29er forums: Nazi salutes, slurs on maternal relationships... in the normally laid back beginners corner ...my god what is the world coming to.
My two pennies worth...
I ride 9 speed XT with 9 speed XTR shifters, I am a reasonably experienced XC rider \ tourer \ bikepacker \ amateur racer - it's more than good enough for me. Unless money is no object I would go with Deore, SLX or XT, you won't notice the difference until you develop your fitness and skills.
I had an M970 XTR RD once and it lasted three rides before I kopped a trail snake and smashed the carbon cage- if it had been a Al cage XT or SLX cage RD it would still have been toast I think - but it damn near broke my heart to waste $200 or whatever it cost so I stick to XT these days. 
Don't know how your skills are, but as a beginner, if like me, you are very likely to crash and break stuff regardless of 'durability', worth bearing in mind before you drop $2k on a gruppo


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

Damn ive missed all the action, wheres cpfitness gone, come back cp.........


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## Hutch3637 (Jul 1, 2011)

Well after reading this thread, some good points, some not so good. As far as XT or XTR purchase what you can afford. XTR will hold up fine, you will just save on cash and gain a tiny bit of weight for XT.

Also *cpfitness* for your comments and comparing other helpful members to a convicted pedophile..... 
Forgot to sign it, so here.









-Hutch3637


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## ozzybmx (Jun 30, 2008)

Tone's said:


> Damn ive missed all the action, wheres cpfitness gone, come back cp.........


Damn it, living on the other side of the world 

I was getting excited reading the post too.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

Hutch3637 said:


> you will just save on cash and gain a tiny bit of weight for XT.


I think SLX is where the value optimum is at.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Hutch3637 said:


> Well after reading this thread, some good points, some not so good. As far as XT or XTR purchase what you can afford. XTR will hold up fine, you will just save on cash and gain a tiny bit of weight for XT.
> 
> Also *cpfitness* for your comments and comparing other helpful members to a convicted pedophile.....
> Forgot to sign it, so here.
> ...


Helpful member? Kindly show me how he was of any value to the op in this thread. He doesn't like the fact a "newb" with 100posts has made him look silly by disproving his erroneous statements so he has a vendetta against me. Oh no, what shall i do?

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

I've yet to wear something out that isn't supposed to wear out (e.g., chain) by pure use. Cleaning, maintenance and proper use means stuff will out last your interests in a bike.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

cpfitness said:


> I can't stand when people make statements like this. The talk down about bikes direct for what spec level they call their bike but all one has to do is click on the bike and they give you a COMPLETE list of the parts on the bike. IT's not like they are trying to hide anything.
> 
> As someone else noted, generally with bikes direct the description usually means the shifters and deraileurs that you are getting. you typically get a 3rd party crank and then a lower spec cassette and chain. Also Brakes may leave something to be desired, but lets be honest, at the prices they are selling them for, they are very solid bikes.





cpfitness said:


> What the **** is your problem? You are a punk. If you got a problem with my opinion, thats fine, but kindly present some kind of useful information to back yourself up instead of talking **** and stop taking this thread off topic. In this case, my opinon is a FACT. Bikes direct lists every part that goes onto their bikes. Nothing is being hidden. now go back to STFU.





cpfitness said:


> um no, thats not remotely close to the same thing he said. but I already know your reading comprehension completely sucks. keep on trolling the beginner forum Sandusky.





cpfitness said:


> lol, ummm okay. have another one





cpfitness said:


> whos the giver and who's the receiver in your relationship with mimi?





cpfitness said:


> stop polluting this guys threads with off topic posts. stop stalking me. Why don't you bring up the full context of that statement jackass. so I can prove myself right again.





cpfitness said:


> Helpful member? Kindly show me how he was of any value to the op in this thread. He doesn't like the fact a "newb" with 100posts has made him look silly by disproving his erroneous statements so he has a vendetta against me. Oh no, what shall i do?
> 
> Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


Yet there is soooo much value in these posts.  Just stop. We get it. You like your Moto. No one cares. You're an internet bad ass. No one cares. In short, no one cares about you. Banhammer in 5. 4.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Nakkoush said:


> How does Shimano XTR compare to XT in terms of durability?
> I head that XTR is not only lighter than the XT but it wears out much quicker than the XT !!
> Your comments are appreciated


A more salient point to durability is proper maintenance. Proper cleaning and lubrication can extend the lifespan by three or four fold. To address the original question, unless you have money in excess the XT level components could last longer but will cost far less to replace when you do wear them out. Bang for the buck.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

Wow, a new level of low for the Beginner's thread.
Never felt the need, or had the $$ for XTR or XO.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

Flyin_W said:


> Wow, a new level of low for the Beginner's thread.
> Never felt the need, or had the $$ for XTR or XO.


just because someone is a beginner doesn't mean they aren't gainfully employed. I see dr's and lawyers riding dura ace road bikes all the time. Whats 6k for a bike when you make 300k a year? A lot of people want the perceived "best of the best" without understanding that it's actually not the best for them.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Yet there is soooo much value in these posts.  Just stop. We get it. You like your Moto. No one cares. You're an internet bad ass. No one cares. In short, no one cares about you. Banhammer in 5. 4.


Sorry, you aren't aware of mimi's history with me and if you were you could see that he clearly decided to bring it into this thread for no reason whatsoever. I don't ride a motobecane mtb, but I wouldn't hesitate too. Tired of the snobs on here. no i'm not an internet bad ass, I'm a real life bad ass, but I'm also a smart one. see here in NYC, we mind our own business and people who don't mind their business end up getting hurt. You have nothing to do with this discussion between mimi and I so you stay out of it.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

cpfitness said:


> just because someone is a beginner doesn't mean they aren't gainfully employed. I see dr's and lawyers riding dura ace road bikes all the time. Whats 6k for a bike when you make 300k a year? A lot of people want the perceived "best of the best" without understanding that it's actually not the best for them.


 Just more ranting, how about some substance that addresses the question at hand? Please?


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## roadie scum (Jan 21, 2011)

cpfitness said:


> Sorry, you aren't aware of mimi's history with me and if you were you could see that he clearly decided to bring it into this thread for no reason whatsoever. I don't ride a motobecane mtb, but I wouldn't hesitate too. Tired of the snobs on here. no i'm not an internet bad ass, I'm a real life bad ass, but I'm also a smart one. see here in NYC, we mind our own business and people who don't mind their business end up getting hurt. You have nothing to do with this discussion between mimi and I so you stay out of it.


AH! Transparency. You simply come to this thread with an axe to grind. Ban Hammer please.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Just more ranting, how about some substance that addresses the question at hand? Please?


Ranting? really? A response that directly addresses another response about the issue at hand and you say I am ranting? WHile you decide to step in and critique my posts and offer no value. Stop harassing me. you wouldn't be man enough to do it in the real world so don't do it here.

OP, obviously this entire topic is very subjective and a number of factors come into play. For example, if you had the opportunity to get an XTR group for free vs paying for XT, you probably wouldn't say "gee xt is more durable so I'm gonna $XYZ for that group instead of taking the free XTR group" In my OPINION(can you haters read that? it's an opinion) people act like carbon is far more fragile than it is. Incidents that break carbon parts would probably damage aluminum and steel parts as well. Finally, it's all about business. XTR and DuraAce aren't expensive because of production costs. They may want you to think that but it's simply not true. It's all about having varying pricepoints for people to buy into . I'm not going to go overboard with how business run but we see this in all avenues of retail goods. Some people want luxury items just to say they have them and it's silly for a business not to produce them if they know people will pay a premium for them.


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## cpfitness (Nov 19, 2012)

roadie scum said:


> AH! Transparency. You simply come to this thread with an axe to grind. Ban Hammer please.


see you are another one of those who lack basic reading comprehension. You accuse me of coming to the thread with an axe to grind, meanwhile I posted BEFORE mimi and HE came to the thread and started giving me a ration of ****? But why let facts get in the way of things. Maybe I'll call the mods in myself so they can take a look thru and see who is initiating the attacks. And lets add you to the list of people that have nothign to do with this and should butt out.


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## roadie scum (Jan 21, 2011)

cpfitness said:


> Maybe I'll call the mods in myself so they can take a look thru and see who is initiating the attacks.


Self Immolation. Awesome, please do.


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## DavyRay (Apr 13, 2012)

From pre-Internet forum times ...

FidoNet's basic social guideline, "Do not be excessively annoying and do not become excessively annoyed."

On-topic: I do not own any gear better than SLX, because I'm a cheapskate and a newbie. That gear works well for me. 

If I bought a BD bike, I would obsess over the no-name components more than I would over the few name-brand bling components.


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## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

Resorting to threats? How weak. :skep:


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

Axe said:


> Race does not wear any more quickly. *It just has slightly different features - like servo-wave in the brake.*
> 
> In my experience XTR is more durable - bearings in shifters, better alloy on crankarms, better bushings in derailleur. But both are quite robust indeed.
> 
> As far as functionality, I only would pick XTR shifters, and cranks for the sole reason of 172.5mm option and narrower stance. If going for XT, I would rather pick SLX for cassette, cranks, brakes, and probably the new Zee for rear derailleur, as it has a short cage option (did not try it yet, but what could be wrong). SLX front derailleur for the double/short cage option.


I believe that XTR Race does *not* have servo wave, but XTR Trail does.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

AZ.MTNS said:


> A more salient point to durability is proper maintenance. Proper cleaning and lubrication can extend the lifespan by three or four fold. To address the original question, unless you have money in excess the XT level components could last longer but will cost far less to replace when you do wear them out. Bang for the buck.


Absolutely a good point to bring some more focus to. Changing your changing your chain regularly, keeping it clean, keeping it lubed will all help lead to improved drivetrain life for any level components.

I think the main point is that there is a perceived design flaw in XTR that would make it less durable and for most items that is simply not true. Wheels might be a little race oriented leading them to be not as durable but that could be said of any race level wheel set. As (I believe) Keith Bontrager said: "Strong, light, cheap. Pick two." In the case of XTR, you can get strong and light because it's not cheap.


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## drifter248 (Nov 1, 2011)

cpfitness, mimi1885, AZ. MTNS, roadie scum (and whoever else might want to get in on the scrum) quit hijacking this thread. As a newbie I was hoping to find some worthwhile comments regarding the durability/value of XT vs XTR, but end up getting caught up in some pissing match. Please grow up and take your childish bickering elsewhere.


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## roadie scum (Jan 21, 2011)

drifter248 said:


> cpfitness, mimi1885, AZ. MTNS, roadie scum (and whoever else might want to get in on the scrum) quit hijacking this thread. As a newbie I was hoping to find some worthwhile comments regarding the durability/value of XT vs XTR, but end up getting caught up in some pissing match. Please grow up and take your childish bickering elsewhere.


If you were more concerned with reading rather than trying (weakly) to be a tough guy, you would have learned something from this thread.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

heyyall said:


> I've yet to wear something out that isn't supposed to wear out (e.g., chain) by pure use. Cleaning, maintenance and proper use means stuff will out last your interests in a bike.


I've worn out a couple rear derailleurs, some shifters, a freehub...

It takes a really long time.


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## jeffscott (May 10, 2006)

AndrwSwitch said:


> I've worn out a couple rear derailleurs, some shifters, a freehub...
> 
> It takes a really long time.


Yup

I wore out an XTR RD, and an XTR FD took over 40,000 km and 7 years of long cold salty winter commuting.....shifters are still fine.

Pretty sure they would both be going strong if it wasn't for the winters.....

Both are still usable but not XTR shifting quality....the salt got into the bearings and they shift slow.


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## Guerdonian (Sep 4, 2008)

Usually the rivets on the pivots of the swing arm are the first to go for me on mountain RD's. Probably from being bashed a few to many times, or the more extreme circumstances that they see. 

I have worn out some bearings and cogs on a couple road deraillurs but they saw probably over 10 to 20 thousand miles.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

zebrahum said:


> ..Nothing Shimano makes is disposable, well not at the top end of the spectrum. ..


actually - their M970 XTR Calipers (hydro) cannot be rebuilt....so when a seal blows the caliper is hosed...

I know...my front M970 blew in Downieville....3 days of 15 mile downhills and no front brake...

I'm a better technical rider now


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

drifter248 said:


> cpfitness, mimi1885, AZ. MTNS, roadie scum (and whoever else might want to get in on the scrum) quit hijacking this thread. As a newbie I was hoping to find some worthwhile comments regarding the durability/value of XT vs XTR, but end up getting caught up in some pissing match. Please grow up and take your childish bickering elsewhere.


good call Drifter....there's some solid info in this mess...

Back on topic - go with XT best bang for the buck IMO, but if you're excited by the high end components (and can afford them) you cannot go wrong with XTR...

I, myself, am a bike snob and enjoy the chi-chi bike bits...even though it doesn't make me any faster


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Hey Mr. Whoever you are: I'm glad you got my joke, but missed the humor.


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## CHUM (Aug 30, 2004)

cpfitness said:


> Sorry, you aren't aware of mimi's history with me and if you were you could see that he clearly decided to bring it into this thread for no reason whatsoever. I don't ride a motobecane mtb, but I wouldn't hesitate too. Tired of the snobs on here. * no i'm not an internet bad ass, I'm a real life bad ass, but I'm also a smart one. see here in NYC, we mind our own business and people who don't mind their business end up getting hurt*. You have nothing to do with this discussion between mimi and I so you stay out of it.


cpfitness.

chill.

no response necessary here - keep it to PM's.


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## Flyin_W (Jun 17, 2007)

cpfitness said:


> just because someone is a beginner doesn't mean they aren't gainfully employed. I see dr's and lawyers riding dura ace road bikes all the time. Whats 6k for a bike when you make 300k a year? A lot of people want the perceived "best of the best" without understanding that it's actually not the best for them.


Simply amazing... 
Please, get back on the meds, or call someone for help - I'm concerned.
Other than my not "feeling the need", where did I infer that anyone is economically-challenged? 
A "need" is not a "want". If you desire something, and can afford it -great, but do not try to profess that it is notably better, 
or that you can feel a difference. :skep:
Back to topic:

When properly tuned & maintained one would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between SLX - XT- XTR. Except when purchasing a replacement.
And any stick bigger than your pinkie can & will snap each of them equally quick.
Have broken many hangers & rear der's, so when trails are leaf-covered, I tend to ride SS.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

Hard to tell from Deore too, without either reading the labels or a scale. Although I do have mostly LX and SLX.

We'll see if finishing my degree changes my mind. But I've pretty much standardized on a Deore rear derailleur for my two off-road bikes. They're cheaper when I break them.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Sure am glad I went with XX1
There seems to be a dark cloud of controversy over all this Shimano stuff 

Sj


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

Axe said:


> I think SLX is where the value optimum is at.


Agree, first gen slx crankset looks and feel really good, actually a few grams lighter than XT, and more set up choices. If Shimano put "XTR" on it I'd believe it.:thumbsup:


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

cpfitness said:


> see you are another one of those who lack basic reading comprehension. You accuse me of coming to the thread with an axe to grind, meanwhile I posted BEFORE mimi and HE came to the thread and started giving me a ration of ****? But why let facts get in the way of things. Maybe I'll call the mods in myself so they can take a look thru and see who is initiating the attacks. And lets add you to the list of people that have nothign to do with this and should butt out.


Check again


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

drifter248 said:


> cpfitness, mimi1885, AZ. MTNS, roadie scum (and whoever else might want to get in on the scrum) quit hijacking this thread. As a newbie I was hoping to find some worthwhile comments regarding the durability/value of XT vs XTR, but end up getting caught up in some pissing match. Please grow up and take your childish bickering elsewhere.


Noted.:thumbsup:

There were plenty said about the subject. Here's the thing cpfitness came in here and started to derail the thread defending bikedirect, that's a no no:nono:, especially in the beginner's forum. We need to call him on it, if not some noobs would come in and see the non-sense.

Back to the topic, 
My easy understanding on the Shimano components line is (let's start from the bottom) 
Deore is the entry level Mtb components, then the LX and SLX which enjoy the trickle down tech from XT/XTR, the main difference between SLX and XT is the forming method, XT-cold forged and, SLX-Cast, many other features are the same.

XTR has about 10-15% performance boost over XT at twice the price, and the performance gain mainly found in more extreme situations. When it comes to pure performance, if you don't care about going thru your gears from top to bottom in 2 swipes, and/or have the habit of shifting in the middle of the steep hill, you won't notice it.

Now it's even more choices as XTR has split into race and trail. Race for high performance XC application, and trail is for All Mountain heavier duty application. For the ultimate in Shimano durability would be Saint line.:thumbsup:


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

cpfitness said:


> I'm a real life bad ass.


You should try chamois cream (butt lube) - DZ Nuts is a good brand. Reduces chafing and cases of severely bad ass.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

SimpleJon said:


> Unless money is no object I would go with Deore, SLX or XT, you won't notice the difference until you develop your fitness and skills.


Shifter is somewhat noticeable - judging by my wife. XTR is very light action.

On my bikes I often end up with parts for historical reasons - for her bike my calculations of the value optimum had been: SLX crank with XT granny ring (alloy) and BBG bash guard instead of the large ring, SLX cassette (new one), XT rear derailleur and SLX front (short cage) - would have bought Zee shadow-plus rear D now, XTR shifter (splurged), XT brakes (appearance reason over SLX) and SLX 6-bolt MT-65 wheels and RT76 (non ice-tech) rotors. With some interwebz shopping kung-fu deals had been really, really good.


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## WarBoom (Dec 13, 2011)

I bought all xtr drivetrain used it for almost a year/3k miles, traded it to my buddy for a new xt drivetrain with shadow rd. The only difference is a few grams and the shifter takes a lil more force but I atribute that to the shadow rd


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## justin_amador (Dec 2, 2009)

You can learn a lot about the durability of component groups by looking at the exploded diagrams for said parts on shimano's website.

Take a rear deraileur for instance. At the deore level, the jockey sprocket is just a single piece. Go a level higher and you've got a bronze/oilite bushing as your bearing surface instead of nylon. Go another level higher and you've got a ceramic bushing. Bushings have nice bearing surfaces. Ceramic is harder than bronze. Stuff with nice bearing surfaces will endure longer before developing sufficient slop to cause alignment problems. Stuff with hard bearing surfaces will last even longer. That tells you a lot about longetivity.

Take a look at the schematic for the part in question.
Identify wear surfaces and what might be causing the wear.
Figure out which wear surface will last longest based on lubricity and hardness and resistance to corrosion. 

You can use a similar strategy for each component to try to identify what is going to last longest.


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## Tone's (Nov 12, 2011)

cpfitness said:


> Sorry, you aren't aware of mimi's history with me and if you were you could see that he clearly decided to bring it into this thread for no reason whatsoever. I don't ride a motobecane mtb, but I wouldn't hesitate too. Tired of the snobs on here. no i'm not an internet bad ass, I'm a real life bad ass, but I'm also a smart one. see here in NYC, we mind our own business and people who don't mind their business end up getting hurt. You have nothing to do with this discussion between mimi and I so you stay out of it.


BWAHAHAHAHAHA, pure 24k gold, sometimes this place throws up a real gem of a post, honestly this post made me crack right up..

edit, sorry CHUM missed the message to chill......just read it.....


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## Nakkoush (Nov 22, 2012)

Interesting to see how this thread has evolved !


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## shibiwan (Sep 2, 2012)

SlowerJoe said:


> Sure am glad I went with XX1
> There seems to be a dark cloud of controversy over all this Shimano stuff
> 
> Sj


You're right. Glad I'm on X0/X9 components too. They do have a significantly crisper shift feel. On the flipside, my Avid Ultimates serve their purpose but aren't the best ones around.

....wait am I starting another war?

-S

Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2


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## Ilikemtb999 (Oct 8, 2010)

I've always liked to mix and match components depending on wear and cost vs weight. An xtr cassette will last forever as will an xtr shifter and derailleur. An xt front derailleur and crank will get you more bang for the buck with little weight penalty. Brakes I think xt or slx are just as good as xtr with just a bit of weight penalty.


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## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

ambassadorhawg said:


> I've had a few different bikes built up with some of the parts from the last 3 generations (960, 970, 985) of XTR. Also used quite a bit of the last 3 gens of XT. All parts functioned smoothly and lasted long.
> 
> Either way, you won't be disappointed, it's all good.
> 
> My current bike has a combo of XTR/XT and it's great, too.


Spot on...


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## Loudviking (Oct 23, 2011)

I've always rode XT, never had any problems.
Good luck and good riding.


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## Jernas (Oct 2, 2011)

Wow before reading this thread I thought my Alivio is supreme but now I feel like I have to replace it as soon as possible. In other words...


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## sauprankul (Sep 6, 2012)

Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Jernas said:


> Wow before reading this thread I thought my Alivio is supreme but now I feel like I have to replace it as soon as possible. In other words...


If you're happy with it, then it's fine. Don't replace unless it breaks.


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## AndrwSwitch (Nov 8, 2007)

sauprankul said:


> Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.


I raced an Alivio drivetrain for my first season.

Granted it didn't all survive that first season. But it's fine for rec. mountain biking and getting one's feet wet in competition. It all worked fine before I started competing. When tuned, it stays tuned. Etc. It's just a little less forgiving of shifting under load, a little less serviceable, and some parts have a little shorter wear life. I don't know that I'd be Alivio as replacement parts, but I think it's a great package for someone getting into the sport. I'd rather have a bike ship with an Alivio drivetrain and a "real" fork than what a lot of companies do, which is working up to a SLX drivetrain before they bolt on a Recon.

Actually still have my M-475 hub. I laced it into a new wheel for my commute bike not too long ago.


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## Deep Thought (Sep 3, 2012)

sauprankul said:


> Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.


I highly disagree. I would bet that more often than not, a rider's first mountain bike is equipped with Alivio-level components. Like Andrew said, they aren't quite as durable or reliable, but lots of people get by just fine with them.


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## wmac (Sep 29, 2010)

Depends on how much and how hard you are riding. If you have a bike with Alivio, go with it and replace as necessary. If you're looking for a bike or looking to replace and plan to ride more than 500 hard, off road, miles in one year, Deore is minimum I would recommend.


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## shibiwan (Sep 2, 2012)

wmac said:


> Depends on how much and how hard you are riding. If you have a bike with Alivio, go with it and replace as necessary. If you're looking for a bike or looking to replace and plan to ride more than 500 hard, off road, miles in one year, Deore is minimum I would recommend.


Yup... run the Alivio into the ground. It WILL explode at some time in the future - your mileage may vary depending on how hard you ride. At that point replace it with something less likely to explode. 

-S


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## mimi1885 (Aug 12, 2006)

shibiwan said:


> You're right. Glad I'm on X0/X9 components too. They do have a significantly crisper shift feel. On the flipside, my Avid Ultimates serve their purpose but aren't the best ones around.
> 
> ....wait am I starting another war?
> 
> ...


That is true though. SRAM 1:1 feels really good when shifting it up or down is positive, however everyone around you can hear you shift from a mile away, there's no sneak attack on the hill. Shimano is really smooth. I like them both just different flavor.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

sauprankul said:


> Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.


8sp is more then reliable enough. So are V-brakes. Keep it lubed and tuned and it all lasts quite fine.

But their is a notable performance improvement when going for hydraulic brakes. And I do recommend to all of my friends to replace the big ring with a cheap bash-guard (like BB) for safety reasons. And something better than a cheap cage pedal. I would also avoid a freewheel rear on the low end. It blows up under spirited use..


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

mimi1885 said:


> That is true though. SRAM 1:1 feels really good when shifting it up or down is positive, however everyone around you can hear you shift from a mile away, there's no sneak attack on the hill. Shimano is really smooth. I like them both just different flavor.


I do not think it is 1:1 anymore for the 10sp. I certainly not 1:2 anymore for Shimano. Looks like they are converging to a happy medium.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

sauprankul said:


> Alivio isn't good enough. Not for mountain biking. Deore is minimum.


It is good enough. Anything is good enough, seriously. It's all in how you use it.

I have used 7 speed on my old 1990 Rockhopper, original derailleur (albeit Exage 500...1990!!!). Original crank wore out though, square taper hole started rounding out and chainrings are worn to hell.

My Rockhopper is also using v-brakes.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Axe said:


> I do not think it is 1:1 anymore for the 10sp. I certainly not 1:2 anymore for Shimano. Looks like they are converging to a happy medium.


For MTB.  Road 10sp Shimano is 9sp compatible, you can use a 9sp MTB derailleur if you wanted. 10sp MTB is different, closer to SRAM as you noted. Go figure. So weird, that I don't quite get it. SRAM is more consistent in that regard, you can use MTB and Road derailleurs interchangeably at the 10sp level. There must be some logic to it, but I honestly stopped caring and just use SRAM now.


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Jernas said:


> Wow before reading this thread I thought my Alivio is supreme but now I feel like I have to replace it as soon as possible. In other words...


don't bother....it's a rat race. you get sucked into spending $$$ on blingy stuff. the next thing you know, you're wearing lycra and racing and spending even more $$$$ on SRAM XX1.


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

IAmHolland said:


> Anything is good enough, seriously.


Besides aforementioned cheap cage pedals, and rear freewheel, I would also avoid single wall rims. They just do not hold up. So is the case with single-piece cranks. Really cheap suspension forks - full rigid will do better with a decent tire.

Pretty much stuff that comes on the department store bikes. They do in fact break in pieces on a trail. Mostly safety issue, not some bike geek snobbish attitude.

...migration path of all components I compulsively get to try usually ends up as an upgrade for my non-enthusiast friends.


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## shibiwan (Sep 2, 2012)

Axe said:


> I do not think it is 1:1 anymore for the 10sp. I certainly not 1:2 anymore for Shimano. Looks like they are converging to a happy medium.


The "actual" ratio for SRAM 1:1 is 1.1:1 (yes, that's 1.1) ... and for SRAM 10-speed Exact Actuation, it is about 1.25:1 (as measured by me so it may be a little off). SRAM 9 and 10 speed bits are cross compatible but takes a good amount of adjusting to work properly.

Shimano's ratio for older stuff (i.e. Dura Ace) was 1.9:1 and their newer stuff since then is 1.7:1 and this is even for Shimano 10-speed shifters and rear derailers. Shimano 9 and 10 speed stuff is therefore cross compatible.

SRAM and Shimano are still no where close to each other.

-S


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## IAmHolland (Jul 8, 2010)

Axe said:


> Besides aforementioned cheap cage pedals, and rear freewheel, I would also avoid single wall rims. They just do not hold up. So is the case with single-piece cranks. Really cheap suspension forks - full rigid will do better with a decent tire.
> 
> Pretty much stuff that comes on the department store bikes. They do in fact break in pieces on a trail. Mostly safety issue, not some bike geek snobbish attitude.
> 
> ...migration path of all components I compulsively get to try usually ends up as an upgrade for my non-enthusiast friends.


You're right on those parts, though I haven't seen a 1 piece crank in ages. I bought my wife a low end GT Avalanche-W for $300 new and even it came with a freehub and a 3 piece crank (square taper). Cheap mechanical disc brakes, it works, nothing much more different than my BB7s I have on my CX bike. I haven't shopped at Walmart and can't really say what comes on those bikes.

Needless to say, being a parts whore, I tore it apart and replaced it with SLX and some cheap FSA suare taper cranks (165mm she's short) with alloy rings, which work fine. A new wheelset (Black Flag Pro), Magura weight weenie hydraulic brakes, and Manitou R7 fork....and the bike now sits looking pretty....hardly touched.

Yeah, safety issues for some things. I guess it depends on use. My 1990 Rockhopper came with single wall rims. I still use them. I basically ride fireroad/CX type of rides with it, and some minor tech (slowly) at STCP. It needs truing, but hasn't cracked or folded yet. I'm actually surprised the rims lasted so long, as did the hub body (I had to relube it with gear oil). I know what I have and ride it accordingly, no bashing, try to stay smooth. I still have all the original parts, in a bag as it's a SS bike now. It's vintage, but the wheels are on it's last legs (cassette hub body needs a real rebuild but usually isn't worth the time, kinda sad).

I have a friend that rides his cheap Suntour fork (same fork as my wife's GT-W) everywhere, it hasn't caved yet.  It's not ideal, doesn't work great, but good enough for the casual rider. If you could afford it, an upgrade works, but yeah a rigid with a fat 2.5" tire tubeless with low PSI would be more responsive and better "suspended" than that fork. Lighter too. I wouldn't go out of my way to replace it though, unless you invest the time to actually ride it long and hard. There are probably cheaper forks, but I am not aware of them.

The point is, even cheap parts can last depending on usage. I think most of the commentary about life of parts at the extreme end come from guys that ride alot. At the other end, even for the casual rider with lots of money, aluminum cassettes would probably last a while too. Where as, for a racer it probably won't last a season. Actually, aluminum cassettes would last quite a while for a kid, and light too (not enough power).


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

shibiwan said:


> The "actual" ratio for SRAM 1:1 is 1.1:1 (yes, that's 1.1) ... and for SRAM 10-speed Exact Actuation, it is about 1.25:1 (as measured by me so it may be a little off). SRAM 9 and 10 speed bits are cross compatible but takes a good amount of adjusting to work properly.
> 
> Shimano's ratio for older stuff (i.e. Dura Ace) was 1.9:1 and their newer stuff since then is 1.7:1 and this is even for Shimano 10-speed shifters and rear derailers. Shimano 9 and 10 speed stuff is therefore cross compatible.
> 
> SRAM and Shimano are still no where close to each other.


According to the magic of internet search... Cable pulls:
Shimano 8 - 2.8mm
Shimano 9 - 2.5mm
Shimano 10 road - 2.3mm
Shimano 10 MTB - can't find exact reference, is not "Vivid indexing" meant to actually vary it over the cassette? Interesting lack of exact documentation. I will whip out my calipers and measure. But it does look notably more than 2.5mm..
SRAM 9 - 4.0mm
SRAM 10 - 3.1mm

In any case, after Shadow came out, I switched to Shimano camp.


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## shibiwan (Sep 2, 2012)

Axe said:


> According to the magic of internet search... Cable pulls:
> Shimano 8 - 2.8mm
> Shimano 9 - 2.5mm
> Shimano 10 road - 2.3mm
> ...


Here you go:
Bicycles/Maintenance and Repair/Gear-changing Dimensions - Wikibooks, open books for an open world


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## Axe (Jan 12, 2004)

shibiwan said:


> Here you go:
> Bicycles/Maintenance and Repair/Gear-changing Dimensions - Wikibooks, open books for an open world


Been there, no data on Dyna Sys pull. It quotes the Shimano 10 - road.


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## Burnt-Orange (Dec 10, 2008)

Since this thread is back on track I must say I have never had any trouble with my Shimano xt
I had 8 9 and 10 and it was all solid
I only switched to sram because grip shift works better for me after 2 hours of riding 
I'm getting old


Sj


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

Nakkoush said:


> How does Shimano XTR compare to XT in terms of durability?
> I head that XTR is not only lighter than the XT but it wears out much quicker than the XT !!
> Your comments are appreciated


For all practical purposes XTR is just as durable as XT. Some particular components may be a little more, some a little less. I would not let durability sway you one way or the other.


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## shibiwan (Sep 2, 2012)

kapusta said:


> For all practical purposes XTR is just as durable as XT. Some particular components may be a little more, some a little less. I would not let durability sway you one way or the other.


^^^ This.

Both XT and XTR quality are about the same and they are both pretty durable in the big scheme of things.

-S


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