# New Gemini light? the Duo?



## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

saw this picture here: My Interbike Cherry Popped | NSMB.e.MAGAZINE - Freeride, Extreme and North Shore style Mountain Biking

I'm interested in this light if it is a spot that could be used on the helmet. I find I just don't get the throw I'm looking for from my Xera, even with the super-spot optic... I know Gemini is in Las Vegas right now, but any info on availability (or if you need testers for the light :ihih would be awesome....


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*This is going to be my next helmet light for sure as long as they keep the price reasonable. *
http://www.pinkbike.com/v/278442/l/

Gemini Lights 2013 Lineup on Pinkbike


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

Looks pretty sweet. I'm wondering what the options will be for the optics.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

derekbob said:


> Looks pretty sweet. I'm wondering what the options will be for the optics.


*I was thinking the same thing he said it has a wide beam but throws, I'm hoping its not too floody , it would be a waste otherwise. I have a olympia on my bars and a 808e on the noggin, hope this has enough punch for the helmet.*


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Rakuman said:


> *I was thinking the same thing he said it has a wide beam but throws, I'm hoping its not too floody , it would be a waste otherwise. I have a olympia on my bars and a 808e on the noggin, hope this has enough punch for the helmet.*


The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.

Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.[/QUOTE
> 
> Be careful Cat, that might end costing you some money. I did the same thing with my Olympia and now I have two!
> Mole


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> Cat-man-do said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.[/QUOTE
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat,
It's not just the amount of light produced but also the comfort level of the smaller lighthead. I know there's not much weight difference between the 808e I used to use and the Olympia/Xera that I currently run, but after a couple of hours it makes a big difference. I know your Gloworm is light and I'm betting the new Duo will be too so they should provide the same benefit.
Mole


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## Gloworm Manufacture (Nov 29, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.
> 
> Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.


Cat, we just completed the 12hr Day Night Thriller here in NZ. All 5 riders were XC weightweenies (and representative riders ) and were kitted out with on X2 on helmet and bars. They never complained about weight but gave plenty of positive feedback about the light at speed.

Laps were 6.5km long and they were averaging 15min per lap.

Give it a go on the helmet.....you'll love it! :thumbsup:

Bruce
Gloworm


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?* 
*seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.*
Action-LED-Lights - Gemini DUO LED light System


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?*
> *seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.*
> Action-LED-Lights - Gemini DUO LED light System


Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?


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## Brooks04 (Jun 1, 2004)

I prefer the lower profile helmet mount used on the Gloworm over the Gemini. I own the Gloworm and Gemini Xera (both great lights). Looks like the Gemini DUO uses the same helmet mounting as the Xera. Both the Gemini and Gloworm mounts work well and are lightweight on the helmet.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

colleen c said:


> Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?


Good point. If it truly gets 3hrs on high it has to be under-driven. The Gemini batteries are good but not that good.

*Posted by Brooks04:*


> *I prefer the lower profile helmet mount used on the Gloworm over the Gemini*. I own the Gloworm and Gemini Xera (both great lights). Looks like the Gemini DUO uses the same helmet mounting as the Xera. Both the Gemini and Gloworm mounts work well and are lightweight on the helmet.


Interesting that you mention this. I was fiddling with the Gloworm X2 helmet mount just yesterday. The first thing I noticed about the mount is that once you get it on it is VERY low profile and VERY adjustable. This will be the only lamp that I've used on the helmet that I can "easily adjust" while on the fly. I've yet to ride with it on the helmet but this is the week that I will give it a spin.

FWIW, someone needs to come up with a lower profile helmet mount suitable for the O-ring mounted light systems. Like the photo that Brooks posted shows, the mounts themselves are too tall. I use an old DiNotte 200L mount. It is more of a "half pipe" approach and so is not as tall as typical " full pipe" mounts. The DiNotte also uses cam buckles rather than Velcro making it more easier to work with. Unfortunately it looks like DiNotte doesn't sell these any more. The new version is taller, more like the typical full pipe mount. Regardless, the cam strap system is way better than the Velcro stuff IMO. ( new DiNotte mount below )


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## Gloworm Manufacture (Nov 29, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Interesting that you mention this. I was fiddling with the Gloworm X2 helmet mount just yesterday. The first thing I noticed about the mount is that once you get it on it is VERY low profile and VERY adjustable. This will be the only lamp that I've used on the helmet that I can "easily adjust" while on the fly. I've yet to ride with it on the helmet but this is the week that I will give it a spin.
> 
> Regardless, the cam strap system is way better than the Velcro stuff IMO.


Hey Cat, you'll be pleased to know we've also changed the design of the helmet strap to include a small buckle to allow the velcro to be threaded and then fastened against itself.

Bruce


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Rakuman said:


> *More info Action is listing them already need a price for light head only got tons of battery's already?*
> *seeing he's asking 259.99 for a complete system I'm thinking around $139.99 for lighthead? seeing Olympias going for $159.99 as lighthead only.*
> Action-LED-Lights - Gemini DUO LED light System


Same boat here. Will be watching for the price of light head only.

Curious how it would compare to my MS856 (872 in different housing). Any guesses?


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## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

What I'd really like to know is whether it can be run as a super-spot. I'd really like to see X2 and Duo side-by-side beam shot comparisons similar to the trail pictures up on the lights shootout page. Or even a Duo compared to a Xera, both with spot optics. I'm looking for a spot that is a little brighter and can throw a little farther the Xera.

Gemini? Are you out there? Any answers for us?


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

colleen c said:


> Something caught my attention on the spec in the link. It listed the battery as a four cell 5200mah but with a runtime in high for 3hrs at high mode (1400 lumens). Can this light using the U2 be that efficient?


[

To acheive this runtime requires the light to be no more effecient than the new 1800 U2 Olympia. Action lists the runtime of the Olympia w/4 cell battery at 140 minutes. If you calculate the percentage difference of the lumen output and apply it to the runtime it works out to 180 minutes, or 3 hrs. In the past Gemini has been very conservative with their claimed light/battery runtimes so this seems reasonable to me.



slyfink said:


> What I'd really like to know is whether it can be run as a super-spot. I'd really like to see X2 and Duo side-by-side beam shot comparisons similar to the trail pictures up on the lights shootout page. Or even a Duo compared to a Xera, both with spot optics. I'm looking for a spot that is a little brighter and can throw a little farther the Xera.
> 
> Gemini? Are you out there? Any answers for us?


My biggest complaint on my Olympia is that there were no optic options. Lets hope that won't be the same on the Duo.
Mole


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> [
> 
> To acheive this runtime requires the light to be no more effecient than the new 1800 U2 Olympia. Action lists the runtime of the Olympia w/4 cell battery at 140 minutes. If you calculate the percentage difference of the lumen output and apply it to the runtime it works out to 180 minutes, or 3 hrs. In the past Gemini has been very conservative with their claimed light/battery runtimes so this seems reasonable to me.
> 
> ...


If all things being equal, than yeah it has to be no more efficient than the U2 Olympia based on the proportion lumens and runtime. The major variable here that changes this is that the Olympia is driving three XML while the Duo is driving two LED. It's more efficient and uses less power to drive three LED to achieve 1400 OTF lumens than it is to drive two LED to get the same OTF (unless I am wrong and I hasve been known to make mistakes  ). They must have verly little or below average overall loss. I'm thinking good light optics, low loss driver or maybe even PWM in the High setting?

I'm also interested to see what the OTF lumens will be when the body heats up and how much does the OTF drops. Most lights I tested does indeed drops with some way more than others. Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users. :yesnod:

I agree that the Olympia major disadvantage was no option with the optics. This Duo might just be the answer for bridging the gap between the Xera and Olympia.


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## Gloworm Manufacture (Nov 29, 2011)

colleen c said:


> If all things being equal, than yeah it has to be no more efficient than the U2 Olympia based on the proportion lumens and runtime. The major variable here that changes this is that the Olympia is driving three XML while the Duo is driving two LED. It's more efficient and uses less power to drive three LED to achieve 1400 OTF lumens than it is to drive two LED to get the same OTF (unless I am wrong and I hasve been known to make mistakes  ). They must have verly little or below average overall loss. I'm thinking good light optics, low loss driver or maybe even PWM in the High setting?
> 
> I'm also interested to see what the OTF lumens will be when the body heats up and how much does the OTF drops. Most lights I tested does indeed drops with some way more than others. Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users. :yesnod:
> 
> I agree that the Olympia major disadvantage was no option with the optics. This Duo might just be the answer for bridging the gap between the Xera and Olympia.


Hopefully the below links help when looking at claimed lumens and runtime.

We encountered the challenge of establishing the sweet spot between Runtime/Temperature/OTF lumen when we brought the X2 to market. We utilised these tools when undergoing the design stages.

Cree Tool This tool is simply awesome. You basically select the correct variables for the emmitter you intened on using. Including junction temp, required lumens and optical/electronic efficiency. It then pumps out how many LEDs and at what current you need to acheive the deisred outcome. It also provides watts (heat) produced. In our experience this tool is very close to actual testing.

LED runtime tool This one basically gives runtime based on all common factors. Once again, the theoretical needs to be taken with the actual, but once again we have been very close in testing.

Cree XML Data Sheet This obviously helps with the variables when entering data into the above sheets.

Bruce and Vag
Gloworm


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Gloworm Manufacture said:


> Hey Cat, you'll be pleased to know we've also changed the design of the helmet strap to include a small buckle to allow the velcro to be threaded and then fastened against itself.
> 
> Bruce


HA!...Nice. I beat you to the punch though as I already had a spare ( buckled Velcro strap ) laying around. Having a buckle to help tighten it down is really needed. The only problem is some of these straps ( with plastic buckles ) are poorly made. Tighten them too tight and either the strap or the buckle will break. One of the ( plastic ) buckles on one of my battery bags broke as well. The Chinese don't do plastic very well. 

Later this week I plan on skipping over to REI to see what they have laying around. They should have an array of sizes to chose from.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*So is this a thread about the New Duo light or Glowworm *


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## Gloworm Manufacture (Nov 29, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *So is this a thread about the New Duo light or Glowworm *


Definitely about the Duo, and for the record it looks like a great little unit :thumbsup:

I was just attempting to provide the readers with some resources that may help them when discussing runtimes, lumens etc.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

colleen c said:


> Guess we will find out when this is out in the market and feedback are reported from users. :yesnod:
> 
> Taking information off one of your old posts, you got 245 minutes runtime out of a 6 cell on your Olympia (16% beyond Gemini's claim for the T-6 Olympia). Today I ran a 4 cell test and got 143 minutes (19% above Gemini's claim for the T-6 Olympia) just to back-up my "Gemini conservative runtime claim". I know there are lots of variables comparing one light to another and I picked the Olympia because I figured it would be the most consistant in regards to optic/driver quality and manufacturer cliams. Yes, we're all just guessing at this and I based my optimistic opinion on Gemini's reputation and past performance quality.
> Mole


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## Lizaloo (Sep 26, 2012)

Hi there,

I just ordered the Gemini XERA for my lid and want to compliment it with a nice light for my bar. I had my mind made up with the XML3 but then the Gemini DUO is now available. Can anyone recommend which one would be better for me??

It will be for XC riding....some of the riding in the area is technical rooty hilly trails


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Lizaloo said:


> Hi there,
> 
> I just ordered the Gemini XERA for my lid and want to compliment it with a nice light for my bar. I had my mind made up with the XML3 but then the Gemini DUO is now available. Can anyone recommend which one would be better for me??
> 
> It will be for XC riding....some of the riding in the area is technical rooty hilly trails


*You cannot go wrong with a Olympia... For the last few years I have been searching for the perfect bar IE flood light and it meets every criteria Blinding goodness + plenty of throw... I have tried 2 xmls on the bars in various configurations and to completely satisfy you need 3 to meet the need. I'm hoping the Duo will make a good helmet light cuz for the bars there is just much more power out there...*


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*I just tried to order a duo lighthead only and it says sold out WTF??? come on Action I kind of doubt you are already sold out.
*


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *I just tried to order a duo lighthead only and it says sold old WTF??? come on Action I kind of doubt you are already sold out.
> *


I'm not quite sure why the website is giving that message. I'll look into it tomorrow. The real situation is that they have not yet arrived. Gemini has not yet promised me a ship date. I'll keep you informed.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> I'm not quite sure why the website is giving that message. I'll look into it tomorrow. The real situation is that they have not yet arrived. Gemini has not yet promised me a ship date. I'll keep you informed.


*Great Thanks I'm definitely planning a on getting one of these so let us know when they will be available.*


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights said:


> I'm not quite sure why the website is giving that message. I'll look into it tomorrow. The real situation is that they have not yet arrived. Gemini has not yet promised me a ship date. I'll keep you informed.


Is the Duo going to have optic options?
Mole


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## Gemini Lights (Sep 20, 2010)

Hi Mole,

We have a few optics options at the moment, but none that really blows our mind. We will be sticking with the current optic we are using as these produce the best beams. Take a look at our *beam shot page*.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*looking at your beamshots it looks like you are getting as much throw as the Xera with a reflector but Dang that puppy is blinding:thumbsup:*


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

The Duo looks like I nice lamp. From what I could tell from the beam shot the output/beam pattern looks very much like the Gloworm X2.. no surprise there I suppose. 
To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if they were both using the same optic. Too bad there isn't a good sub-10° optic. ( or maybe there is? ) Something like that might create more forward throw and a more intense hot spot for helmet use.

*Rakuman,* Keep the faith guy. :thumbsup: We'll find the perfect helmet light one day. For the time being I still think you're going to have a hard time finding something that can compliment your Olympia. With something as bright as the Olympia you don't need any more flood, you need super throw.

In keeping with that thought, someone might try designing a helmet lamp around the new XPE-2's. A three or four emitter set-up ( with the right sized reflector ) could possible yield a lamp small enough for the helmet yet still throw an intense spot.. Kaidoman has a 3-up XPG R5 *( below )* that might be interesting if it is a thrower. If it was maybe convert it to XPE-2 and make it a super thrower...ideas, ideas...:idea:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Gemini Lights said:


> Hi Mole,
> 
> We have a few optics options at the moment, but none that really blows our mind. We will be sticking with the current optic we are using as these produce the best beams. Take a look at our *beam shot page*.


I'm a little confused. In the "whats in the box" section of your Due web page it says "standard plus narrow optic". I didn't seen any beam shots so I guess it is a typo but I'm hopeing it's not. 
Mole


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## Derek.Endress (Nov 6, 2011)

*Yukon winter*

Great thread and good solid info as i just ordered my Duo with 4 cell from Gemini as a helmet lite for winter riding on my Salsa BG. I will start with this and see what I might add down the road as I was close to ordering something like their Olympia. Would love to hear more from the folks at Gemini as to what to watch for in the very near future with respect to inter changing lenses? I was led to believe that there were 2 different ones coming with my Duo?


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

MRMOLE said:


> I'm a little confused. In the "whats in the box" section of your Due web page it says "standard plus narrow optic". I didn't seen any beam shots so I guess it is a typo but I'm hopeing it's not.
> Mole


My guess is the Duo listing started with a copy and paste from the Xera and that got missed in the editing process. 
It's been corrected.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Gemini I am on the fence right now Ive spent some time looking at your Beamshots, you used to have comparisan shot of a 808E and an Xera That link is dead now, If I remember right the Xera was brighter than and almost had as much punch as the 808e. That is the light I compare all other helmet lights to at the moment. Could you re post that comparison with the 808E again? it would go a long ways for me to decide if this light is Helmet suitable.:thumbsup: *


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Rakuman,
I can tell you this much. The XERA with the spot optic has more throw than the MJ-808E. The shots you saw previously were with the stock optic. Not to mention it is only half the size and weight of the MJ-808E.
The new DUO weights only slightly more (63g vs 52g) and should have about the same throw as the XERA but more spread with it's 15 degree optics.
Remember too that the driver circuit in all Gemini light is very efficient, giving you more run-time for a given amount of battery. The benefit of using 2 XML's lightly driven really shows up if you look at the stated run times of the XERA at 850 lumens vs the DUO turned down to 60% (840 lumens). It's 540 minutes vs 240 minutes. (I can't wait to test this myself)


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> Rakuman,
> I can tell you this much. The XERA with the spot optic has more throw than the MJ-808E. The shots you saw previously were with the stock optic.


*That's exactly why I want to see that comparison shot the throw on the stock Xera at 16 degrees should be real close to what the Duo can produce at 15 degrees but brighter. and if the 16 degree Xera has more punch than the 808E the duo would blow the 808E away, please post that 808 picture if you have it. 
As Cat-man-do earlier commented we here are looking for a perfect helmet light, Personally I think the Olympia has the bars covered hands down and Ive tried a lot of lights:thumbsup:*


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## Derek.Endress (Nov 6, 2011)

For those bar mounting the Olympia how do you think the Duo will compliment this? I am wondering how many of you have experience with snow bounce with bar and head mounted lights tested? Are 2 lights overkill? 
Also any thoughts on actual battery life? I just spoke to a fellow here in Whitehorse using a Magicshine and his battery crapped out after less then 1 year use? How are the Gemini batteries holding up? thx


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *That's exactly why I want to see that comparison shot the throw on the stock Xera at 16 degrees should be real close to what the Duo can produce at 15 degrees but brighter. and if the 16 degree Xera has more punch than the 808E the duo would blow the 808E away, please post that 808 picture if you have it.
> As Cat-man-do earlier commented we here are looking for a perfect helmet light, Personally I think the Olympia has the bars covered hands down and Ive tried a lot of lights:thumbsup:*


Rakuman, I do have my beamshot of the Xera with the standard 16 degree optic(so call standard back then), reflector and the 14 degree optic that was so call the prototype back when it first came out. The beamshot is in the same park that I use for all my beamshot. I think I also have the MS 808E XML taken at the same time when I did the test for the 14 degree (prototype) optic that was sent to me for testing. If interested, I can located that folder and link some photo if you desired.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Action LED Lights; The benefit of using 2 XML's lightly driven really shows up if you look at the stated run times of the XERA at 850 lumens vs the DUO turned down to 60% (840 lumens). It's 540 minutes vs 240 minutes. (I can't wait to test this myself)[/QUOTE said:


> Hi Jim,
> I noticed a typo on the runtime minutes for the Duo. Instead of 540 min. it should be 340 min., which is still about 30% more efficient than the Xera if Gemini is accurate with their 10% step power settings and runtimes.
> 
> Do you know if the Due has a seperate optic for each emitter or is it one big optic like the Olympia?
> ...


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

colleen c said:


> Rakuman, I do have my beamshot of the Xera with the standard 16 degree optic(so call standard back then), reflector and the 14 degree optic that was so call the prototype back when it first came out. The beamshot is in the same park that I use for all my beamshot. I think I also have the MS 808E XML taken at the same time when I did the test for the 14 degree (prototype) optic that was sent to me for testing. If interested, I can located that folder and link some photo if you desired.


*
That would be Great ! 
Thanks:thumbsup:*


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## Gemini Lights (Sep 20, 2010)

Hi Rakuman.

We've made a special page on our website for you. It won't be available to the general public through our menus but only through the link found here on MTBR. We like using our web gallery to compare beam shots rather than making animated GIFs.. because you lose a lot of the shot quality through GIFs. So we apologize that you can't see the beam shots here on MTBR, but just click the link below to view the comparison.

Also we took it one step further and compared the DUO to the MJ-880 2000 lumen light. Everyone knows the MJ-880 is like two MJ-808Es put together.

*Link: Gemini Lights vs Other Competitors*https://gemini-lights.com/explore/gemini-lights-vs-other-competitors


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Rakuman, here are some beam sample I had in my old photobucket album. Please keep in mind that the title are still list the optics as standard which is the original 16 degree and the picture title as prototype are the 14 degree optics. Standard MTBR setting used. The aim point was at the tree at 200ft and about 15 to 20ft above the ground, there are soda bottle at 100ft mark.

Magicshine XML 808E:
https://i1127.photobucket.com/album... 14 degree prototype optic/MSXML200ft2563.jpg

Xera with 16 degree optics (standard)
https://i1127.photobucket.com/album...rototype optic/XeraStandardOptic200ft2570.jpg

Xera with 14 degree optics (prototype)
https://i1127.photobucket.com/album...ototype optic/XeraPrototypeOptic200ft2582.jpg

More can be found in this album where they are located. Hope this help.
Xera new 14 degree prototype optic pictures by Colleenlc - Photobucket


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Thanks for the beamshots Colleen and Gemini. While I don't think this is going to be a super thrower I do think it will make up for it in the smoothness and intensity in its beam.
While Geminis path beamshots are nice and give you a representation as you are in a forest. I dont think they give a true representation of what these lights can really do. Colleens open field shots with know targets allow you to see truly how much punch a light has and its spread.
That said Action expect a preorder from me.
Gemini if you put a spots in this light I think you would have a hit....:thumbsup:*


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## Derek.Endress (Nov 6, 2011)

Unfortunately I did not know Action existed out of US and ordered DUO direct from China. It will be here mid week via TNT shipping for 12$ Cdn. Looking forward to owning a real light for this winters riding. Also posting of beam shots really helped me get a sense of what these amazing lights are capable of. thx


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## jtucsc (Jul 29, 2004)

1400 theoretical lumens in such a small package - would be great if it was possible to provide adequate thermal management - would have to be a terribly inefficient option. 
You get either light (photons) or heat....too much heat... no light.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> * While I don't think this is going to be a super thrower I do think it will make up for it in the smoothness and intensity in its beam.
> 
> This seems to work for me. I run an Olympia on the bars and switch between a Xera and an Olympia for helmet use. In most situations I prefer the Olympia but a little extra throw would be nice.
> 
> Gemini if you put a spots in this light I think you would have a hit....:thumbsup:*


I agree 100%

Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

I noticed that Action-LED-Lights has a sale on duo's and other Gemini products. First time I've seen a lighthead price ($116). 

I don't know how I made my last post look the way it did but the second paragraph in the quote box is actually my response to the first paragraph.
Mole


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> I noticed that Action-LED-Lights has a sale on duo's and other Gemini products. First time I've seen a lighthead price ($116).


Thanks for the heads up. Think I'll pull the trigger on this for that price.

Anyone have some thoughts on how this Duo might compare to the MS 856 (872 clone in different housing).

I run the 856 on the bars with a Xera on the helmet with a 2 cell. Maybe the Duo would be better on the helmet? Thoughts


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

skidad said:


> Thanks for the heads up. Think I'll pull the trigger on this for that price.
> 
> Anyone have some thoughts on how this Duo might compare to the MS 856 (872 clone in different housing).
> 
> I run the 856 on the bars with a Xera on the helmet with a 2 cell. Maybe the Duo would be better on the helmet? Thoughts


*Helmet!! not a fan of double xmls on the bars been there done that.*


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> The Duo looks almost like a Gloworm X2 clone. More than likely it should have a similar beam pattern depending on what optic they chose to go with. I've yet to try my GW on the helmet ( as it is my go to bar lamp ). The thing about lamps that use optics ( vs. reflectors ) is that there is always going to be the issue of center throw intensity vs. total beam spread. As I see it reflectors seem to be able to deliver better center ( spot ) throw. This doesn't mean that optics can't work, it just means you need the right optic and enough emitters to compensate for lack of a true hot spot. Whither the Duo is able to do this is anyone's guess.
> 
> Looks like I'm gonna have to test the Gloworm on the helmet just for curiosities sake.


How could it be a Gloworm clone when the gloworm is a Lupine Piko clone? Just sayin'...


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Rakuman said:


> *Helmet!! not a fan of double xmls on the bars been there done that.*


Could you expand on that a bit about the double XML's on the bar (so I don't have to dig through your posts ) FWIW I almost never run my 856 over the #2 setting.

Honestly I was thinking helmet myself* IF* it throws further than the Xera with the spot (which I have not tried yet but will tonight). Jim from Action LED said the Duo will have a slightly wider beam than the Xera which is fine as long as it throws further. Even with a 2 cell it should be fine with run time and I also have a spare 2 cell I can carry if needed.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Honestly I was thinking helmet myself* IF* it throws further than the Xera with the spot (which I have not tried yet but will tonight). Jim from Action LED said the Duo will have a slightly wider beam than the Xera which is fine as long as it throws further. Even with a 2 cell it should be fine with run time and I also have a spare 2 cell I can carry if needed.[/QUOTE]

If you get on the Gemini website and click on "Explore" @ the top of the page, and then click on "Light tests and beam shots" it shows beamshots of all Gemini's lights and optic options. I'm not sure you'll get more throw from the Due than the spot Xera, but to me it looks braoder and more useful at max throw. If your interested in more throw let Gemini know. If we show enough interest it might help convince Gemini to offer a spot optic option on this light.
Mole


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> If you get on the Gemini website and click on "Explore" @ the top of the page, and then click on "Light tests and beam shots" it shows beamshots of all Gemini's lights and optic options. I'm not sure you'll get more throw from the Due than the spot Xera, but to me it looks braoder and more useful at max throw. If your interested in more throw let Gemini know. If we show enough interest it might help convince Gemini to offer a spot optic option on this light.
> Mole


Mole, that's a good page to look at and how they laid it out to compare. Thanks :thumbsup:

Looks nice with a bit more throw and certainly better in the 840 setting vs the 850 setting of the Xera. Decisions decisions...

Here's the link for others to look at.
Light Tests & Beam Shots | Gemini Lights


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Got one on order and will give a basic review when I get it. rumors of a spot lens being considered:thumbsup:*


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Rakuman said:


> *Got one on order and will give a basic review when I get it. rumors of a spot lens being considered:thumbsup:*


Ordered one as well for the $116 price (just the light head and o-rings).


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

"AVAILABLE OCT. 8th! Pre-orders being accepted
For got to factor in National Day holiday all week in China. Projected arrival now Oct. 15th"

Aaarrrggggh! Toss in a spot lens and we'll call it even.:yesnod: :smilewinkgrin:


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gmcttr said:


> "AVAILABLE OCT. 8th! Pre-orders being accepted
> For got to factor in National Day holiday all week in China. Projected arrival now Oct. 15th"
> 
> Aaarrrggggh! Toss in a spot lens and we'll call it even.:yesnod: :smilewinkgrin:


Gemini always does this. Considering how well they do everything else I'm not going to complain. Like you I'll just say Aaarrrgggh and be happy when I get my light. I've been switching between the Xera and Olympia for a helmet light but I think this light will better suit my needs. Besides I already own (2) Titans, (1) Xera, and (2) Olympia's and I need to complete the set.
Mole


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm going to be getting the Duo with the 2-cell battery kit. I'm planning to mount it on the helmet, paired with my MJ-872 on the bars. Run time is a little low with the 2-cell (1.5 hours on 100%), but it should suffice as I generally only run the bar light at 50% for climbing. My main motivation is to get the whole setup on the helmet so I don't have to worry about cords anymore!


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

gmcttr said:


> "AVAILABLE OCT. 8th! Pre-orders being accepted
> For got to factor in National Day holiday all week in China. Projected arrival now Oct. 15th"
> 
> Aaarrrggggh! Toss in a spot lens and we'll call it even.:yesnod: :smilewinkgrin:


We may get them a little sooner...."IN STOCK AND READY FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT."

Does immediate mean today?:thumbsup:

Yes, I'm impatient as always.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

gmcttr said:


> We may get them a little sooner...."IN STOCK AND READY FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT."
> 
> Does immediate mean today?:thumbsup:
> 
> Yes, I'm impatient as always.


*That's good news Ive been counting down the days:thumbsup:*


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

gmcttr said:


> We may get them a little sooner...."IN STOCK AND READY FOR IMMEDIATE SHIPMENT."
> 
> Does immediate mean today?:thumbsup:
> 
> Yes, I'm impatient as always.


Yes, that means Today :thumbsup:

They are out for delivery with DHL so I'm not sure what time but we will work late to make sure they are out the door before we go home. 
(I'm getting a new bike today too so that's a real sacrifice putting off setting it up for a first ride.)


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Action LED Lights said:


> ...(I'm getting a new bike today too so that's a real sacrifice putting off setting it up for a first ride.)


Thanks for "taking one for the team":yesnod:


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Action LED Lights said:


> Yes, that means Today :thumbsup:
> 
> They are out for delivery with DHL so I'm not sure what time but we will work late to make sure they are out the door before we go home.
> (I'm getting a new bike today too so that's a real sacrifice putting off setting it up for a first ride.)


Yippee...a nice surprise for sure

Jim, what bike did you get?



> I'm going to be getting the Duo with the 2-cell battery kit. I'm planning to mount it on the helmet, paired with my MJ-872 on the bars. Run time is a little low with the 2-cell (1.5 hours on 100%), but it should suffice as I generally only run the bar light at 50% for climbing. My main motivation is to get the whole setup on the helmet so I don't have to worry about cords anymore!


Cool, we'll be running the same setup (well, I have the 856 version of the 872). Love the little 2 cell and don't really notice it at all on the back of the helmet. Not concerned about run time with the Duo but I do have a spare 2 cell for longer rides or if it becomes an issue which I doubt.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

skidad said:


> Yippee...a nice surprise for sure
> 
> Jim, what bike did you get?


Got a refresh on my road bike since my Trek Madone got swiped out of my garage. 
At least my Home-Owners insurance covered it.

Got myself a Motobecane Le Champion Ti Inferno


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

True to his word...

Shipping confirmation for my Duo received!

Thanks Jim


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## KonaKen (May 6, 2007)

Just got an email today with the tracking number :thumbsup:

Lets hope it gets here monday so I can charge it up for the Tuesday Nights ride.

I can't tell you how excited I am :drumroll:


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

* One on the way!!!!:thumbsup: I think paired with the Olyimpia that my search may be over...*


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Anyone received their Duo and tried it? I gots to know !!!


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

I'd like to know how well it works with a geomangear pack. My Xera's didn't co-operate with the voltage cutoff and would shut down or flash after just have the pack was used. Maybe the Duo doesn't do that?


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Just unwrapped mine dang this thing is small *:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
*More to come*


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

TCW said:


> Anyone received their Duo and tried it? I gots to know !!!


Possibly tonight. Heading to my PO Box now to hopefully find it waiting.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)




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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Its light enough you can move it to the front of your helmet this thing is SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! tonight's ride will be the true test :thumbsup:*


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## derekbob (May 4, 2005)

That looks pretty sweet. I would get one but I'm not buying any light stuff until I finish building up a frame and fork I recently bought (SC Heckler/RS Revelation). Maybe I'll get next year's duo.

I'm anxious to hear how it works. I love my Xera and Olympia.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gticlay said:


> I'd like to know how well it works with a geomangear pack. My Xera's didn't co-operate with the voltage cutoff and would shut down or flash after just have the pack was used. Maybe the Duo doesn't do that?


I wouldn't get my hopes up. I had 2 geoman 6.0 batteries that did the same thing with my Xera and Olympia. You can use up more of the batteries capacity if you set the power output of the light down but I don't think you'll ever use all the battery capacity like you can with a magicshine lighthead.

USPS tracking info says I should get my Duo today. Time permitting I'll take it out with my Xera/Olympia and see how they all compare.
Mole


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Hmmm, well let us know Mr. Mole. I might try the glow worm because of that issue.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I wouldn't get my hopes up. I had 2 geoman 6.0 batteries that did the same thing with my Xera and Olympia. You can use up more of the batteries capacity if you set the power output of the light down but I don't think you'll ever use all the battery capacity like you can with a magicshine lighthead.
> 
> USPS tracking info says I should get my Duo today. Time permitting I'll take it out with my Xera/Olympia and see how they all compare.
> Mole


*Ive been running my Olympia on Geoman 6.0s and haven't experienced any issues. But my rides are usually around hour and a half. and only run it on high for downhills . I'm going to do a fan rundown test right now just to check..*..


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *Ive been running my Olympia on Geoman 6.0s and haven't experienced any issues. But my rides are usually around hour and a half. and only run it on high for downhills . I'm going to do a fan rundown test right now just to check..*..


I looked up one of my old posts on the Olympia thread where I got 1.5 hours of runtime on high which would explain why you never noticed any issues on your rides. I hooked up an 808e lighthead to the same battery after the Olympia shut down and it ran another hour and fourty minutes. I think doing a rundown test on your equipment is an excellent idea just to know where you stand. You'd probably be able to get home on a lower power level but it might ruin your downhill run.
Mole


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Ok did a 3 hour rundown test with Geoman 6.0 batterys had to stop to recharge so I could use the batteries tonight.
Olympia on high at 100 min started flashing red and powered dimmed I shut it down and unplugged and replugged to reset and was able to get another 60 minutes at 60% setting which is more than enough light for most trails. at 3 hours it was still running at its dimmed setting.
Duo at 3 hours it was still running strong on high. battery meter was showing red.
I have noticed with Geomans batteries no power meter on any of my lights were accurate so I'm sure you could easily get another half hour out of it...
so if you want to use Geoman batteries with an Olympia when it dims down just unplug to reset and run it at no more than half power to get the most out of these batteries...,
and I see zero issues using them with the DUO:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:*


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

MRMOLE said:


> I hooked up an 808e lighthead to the same battery after the Olympia shut down and it ran another hour and fourty minutes.
> Mole


*The ticket seems to be not to overload the circuit when it starts to get low after reseting it if I turned it to high it would trigger a dim down and redflash but at 60% it was fine:thumbsup:*:


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

That's actually good news - you have issues with the same lights we had but not with the Duo. I'm tempted...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gticlay said:


> Hmmm, well let us know Mr. Mole. I might try the glow worm because of that issue.


If I get my light today I want to take it out for a test. I'll be glad to do a rundown test with the Goeman battery for you but I hope tomorrow is OK. 
Mole


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> If I get my light today I want to take it out for a test. I'll be glad to do a rundown test with the Goeman battery for you but I hope tomorrow is OK.
> Mole


No rush for me!


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

Used mine tonight for a quick ride. It's REAL nice. Used the headband. Spot is good....not super concentrated, but not washed out either. I think it will work great for me. Thanks to Jim at Action! :thumbsup:

Edit: Oh yeah, I also used the headband mount to finish mowing the yard tonight. LOL.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

No time for a ride tonight, but I got to play a bit in the woods with the DUO and my XERA (spot lens).

My first impression is the DUO has a bit more throw than the XERA with a wider beam and not much light wasted on side spill. 

I had hoped it would work well for me as either a helmet light with a MS-872 on the bar or as a bar light with the XERA on my helmet.

I think it will be perfect used in either application.:yesnod:


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

gticlay said:


> Hmmm, well let us know Mr. Mole. I might try the glow worm because of that issue.


The issue is not with the light but with the battery pack that is limited in the current it can deliver. As the battery wears down the voltage drops and the current goes up. Geomangear used an overabundance of caution when specking the pack and pretty much limited them to the lights they were selling at the time. Newer high output lights top out these packs when they are far from there full capacity. 
Here is a chart showing the behavior of the Geomangear 4.5Ah battery under different loads. I'm currently doing the same test on a 6.0Ah one.
The current draw on high of each of the lights we sell (at 100% and 7.4v) can be seen HERE


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> The issue is not with the light but with the battery pack that is limited in the current it can deliver. As the battery wears down the voltage drops and the current goes up. Geomangear used an overabundance of caution when specking the pack and pretty much limited them to the lights they were selling at the time. Newer high output lights top out these packs when they are far from there full capacity.
> Here is a chart showing the behavior of the Geomangear 4.5Ah battery under different loads. I'm currently doing the same test on a 6.0Ah one.
> The current draw on high of each of the lights we sell (at 100% and 7.4v) can be seen HERE


*You are 100 percent correct Jim. Its the battery not the light....Geomans battery while well built they are way too sensitive remember a lot of chargers wouldn't work with them. I myself have 6 of the 6.0s and depending on what light I'm using, I have to remember what the actual runtimes are rather than rely on the battery meters. 
I really dig this Duo its finally getting dark here in So Cal so time to take it for a spin...:thumbsup:*


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

So if I'm understanding the charts correctly, the XERA, DUO and even the Olympia should use most of the Geoman battery's capacity while the MJ-872 can only be expected to get use of about 70% of the capacity.

Or do I need additional education? Thanks for the info Jim.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

gmcttr said:


> So if I'm understanding the charts correctly, the XERA, DUO and even the Olympia should use most of the Geoman battery's capacity while the MJ-872 can only be expected to get about 70% of the capacity.
> 
> I do I need additional education? Thanks for the info Jim.


The graph is capacity at constant current. What I really need is constant power which would be close the what a light pulls. In actual use the current rises as the voltage goes down. I think temperature plays a role in these pack cutting out also. (Heat created by the current)


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Got it...my interpretation is a little off. Thanks


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*O.K. I wasn't feeling too hot after dinner:sad: so I took a quick cruise out to the orange groves to test this puppy out on some long paths with trees on both sides that gave me a good Idea how much punch it has. first impression Was Nice Really Nice!
I paired it with my Olympia on the bars and I was afraid that the Olympia was going to drown it out, NOT! Opposite this thing has pretty good punch, I had to keep turning my Olympia on and off to make sure it was on high,, this light can throw:thumbsup:. Its a perfect combo for the Olympia. Its going to take me a while to get used to not having a hotspot like a 808e, I took the Duo and a 808e out and pointed them both at some tree's 200 yards away the duo seemed to have more punch but with a much smoother wider pattern.
While it looks like it is going to be a great light as is I still yearn for some spot lens.
Nice job Gemini :thumbsup:*


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Had mine out tonight for approx 1.5 hours. Part of that was in the rain (no problems BTW) which just sucks up light but I like it....allot. Didn't mess with any programming, just put it on the helmet right out of the box. I have a MS 856 on the bars.

Xera on steroids is how I'd best describe it (I have 2 of those). Smooth beam pattern, bit wider than the Xera and a little more throw. Punch like Rakuman mentioned is a good description. I had it running on my 2 cell and kept it in the medium setting almost the entire ride. I'd cycle it to low at stops. Near the end I ran it at high and yowza, that was really impressive. Most of the rides I do are about 2 hours so I may bump the medium setting from 60% to 80% where it's supposed to run for 2 hours on the 2 cell. I'll do a run test to check. Button was still green at rides end but it stays green from 100% down to 20% before changing to amber and then red at 10%.

Nice little light and another winner I think for Gemini. Should be out again tomorrow night for another test.


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

Man-- im stuck between the duo and the gloworm... Is there a remote switch that can be used for the duo like the gloworm has? I like the idea of using a switch that is away from the light head so the head doesnt get bumped out of alignment each time you want to change light intensity.. The switch for the duo is that little white button in the back-- right?..


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

Not to cast any bad light on the Duo (pardon the pun), but while I'm impressed with the light itself, I'm not impressed with the helmet mount. It was a bugger to get strapped onto my helmet and get it cinched down tight. I have no idea why they didn't put a loop on the strap and reverse the end of the velcro strap so that it could be cinched tight (FAIL). I ended up cutting a large portion of the velcro strap off to get it to fit onto my Specialized helmet. Other than that issue, the light is really nice.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

herrhaus said:


> Not to cast any bad light on the Duo (pardon the pun), but while I'm impressed with the light itself, I'm not impressed with the helmet mount. It was a bugger to get strapped onto my helmet and get it cinched down tight. I have no idea why they didn't put a loop on the strap and reverse the end of the velcro strap so that it could be cinched tight (FAIL). I ended up cutting a large portion of the velcro strap off to get it to fit onto my Specialized helmet. Other than that issue, the light is really nice.


herrhaus, the way it's set up you cinch down each side separately. I find it's best to pull the pads out of the helmet first because the straps want to stick to the pads. Pass the straps through a vent and then back up through the other slot on the mount. Then pull both sides tight together and stick them down.
Though it shows a MS helmet mount these instructions illustrate the idea. HELMET MOUNT INST.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

herrhaus said:


> ...I ended up cutting a large portion of the velcro strap off...





Action LED Lights said:


> ...Though it shows a MS helmet mount these instructions illustrate the idea. HELMET MOUNT INST.


Opps! You may have cut a little too quickly


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

Thanks Jim. I did remove the pads inside the helmet. I fussed and fiddled with it last night for 1/2 hour before I ended up cutting the straps down (I cut about 2" off each side)...it's on there now...and it's tight. So, I'm all set. While I may be an engineer....for some reason, I couldn't figure that out last night. :blush: Oh well. Like I said, it's there now and it's tight, so I'm all set. And, the straps don't block the vents either. 

Thursday, I'm planning a 2+ hour night ride, so, it will get tested out at that point.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Action LED Lights said:


> The issue is not with the light but with the battery pack that is limited in the current it can deliver. As the battery wears down the voltage drops and the current goes up. Geomangear used an overabundance of caution when specking the pack and pretty much limited them to the lights they were selling at the time. Newer high output lights top out these packs when they are far from there full capacity.
> Here is a chart showing the behavior of the Geomangear 4.5Ah battery under different loads. I'm currently doing the same test on a 6.0Ah one.
> The current draw on high of each of the lights we sell (at 100% and 7.4v) can be seen HERE


Thanks for that info! I always figured the runtime on my 872 was due to the higher cutoff built into those Geoman packs. So if I'm reading the charts right, the 872 pulls 2.2A and cuts off with about 1000mah still in the pack? I'm actually using the 6.0Ah pack with the 872, but I'm assuming it's the same circuitry.

To get back on topic, how does the Duo compare in throw distance to the MJ808e?


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## kimm2222 (Apr 1, 2011)

*Duo vs. Gloworm*



SB Trails said:


> Man-- im stuck between the duo and the gloworm...


Same here. If anyone ends up with both the Duo and the Gloworm I'd love to know how they compare. I'm looking for something for the bars as I already have a Jetlite on my helmet...

:Kim


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## rixsurfer (Jan 9, 2007)

So I dank the Gemi koolaid and bought a Duo. By the way, props to Action-Led. Shipping was lightning fast. Anyway, I now have all three lights..xera, olympia and duo. Went for a two hour ride last night with this as a helmet light the Olympia on the bar. In general I like the light though, I wish it was more of a spot. Though much brighter than my xera, I didn't feel as it threw quite as far and that's with the spot lens in my xera. The difference, if any was't huge and in reality, for the trails here in N. TX, I'm probably better off with a wider beam. Not many long downhills where I'd need a lot of throw. Rode for two hours on hi and the battery level was still on green with the hard case battery. 

Seems very well built as are the other Gemini's I've purchased. Will have to wait till next summer to see how it handles our hot nights. In all, a nice light though I'm still left wanting a tad more. I wish Gemini would make a slightly larger version of the Olympia with 4 leds running around 2400 lumens for my bar and produce a spot lens for the current olympia so I could run it on my helmet. The olympia is just barely heavier than the duo and I didn't even know the duo was there. That would make for a lot of light ....Gemini...are you listening?


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Just ran a first 2 cell run down test on the Duo.

Fully charged battery the light went out at 1:16.

Action LED has it listed to run for 1:30 on high. I never noticed it change to Amber color and at approx 1:15 I noticed the button was red and then it went out out 1:16

I have a second 2 cell battery I will try tomorrow to compare results.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

Man, great price for the Duo!

How long is the sale on for?


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

pucked up said:


> How long is the sale on for?


I asked Jim @ Action the same question....he told me he was planning to leave it there for a while.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*Got to give it a good test to tonight. Fire roads & socal chaparral singletrack 
Well I know the thermal protection works had dim me down once rftn a climb that 808E wouldn't. but that's to be expected twice the lumen s twice the heat, I'm just gong to have to learn this lights limits. all in all its a really bright light pushes past the Olympias throw limits well and gives you a lot of useable distance. 
This is not a super thrower it seems to get about the same distance as a 808e but in a more smoothed spread out pattern. I think with spot lenses and a hotspot this thing would be insane:thumbsup:
*


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

skidad said:


> Just ran a first 2 cell run down test on the Duo.
> 
> Fully charged battery the light went out at 1:16.
> 
> ...


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

I got a PM from Chris @ Gemini saying my run times should be better on the 2 cell and my battery was possibly not fully charged. He said leave it on the charger for at least an hour after the light goes to green as it will trickle charge to 100% capacity that way. Didn't know that but will give it a try.

That being said I tested my second (and primarily used) battery and got allot closer to the 1:30 high run time on the Action LED site for the 2 cell. This was_ before_ I got the PM from Chris so I will try a 3rd time to see if that improves it even more.

2nd test on high with 2 cell and my primary battery

1:06 to amber
1:19 to red
1:24:45 to power down

With all the programming options available with this light I'm sure I can milk out 2 hours on or near high with the 2 cell. Just cycling it to the low 280 lumen setting at stops during the ride might do it...and I always have my spare. Nice not being attached to an extension cord IMO but a 4 cell in the back pack and just blast away on high and no worries.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

skidad said:


> I got a PM from Chris @ Gemini saying my run times should be better on the 2 cell and my battery was possibly not fully charged. He said leave it on the charger for at least an hour after the light goes to green as it will trickle charge to 100% capacity that way. Didn't know that but will give it a try.
> 
> That being said I tested my second (and primarily used) battery and got allot closer to the 1:30 high run time on the Action LED site for the 2 cell. This was_ before_ I got the PM from Chris so I will try a 3rd time to see if that improves it even more.
> 
> ...


Keep in mind that cool weather effects batteries and this effects how the circuitry in the lamp reads the voltage on the battery. Voltage sag in cold weather is always a problem with batteries. The smaller the battery, the larger the issue.

Not sure how cold it is where you live but if you did the test inside the house the above paragraph is moot. Likely the battery just needs to recharge again. Trickle charging should not be an issue once the indicator on the charger indicates a full charge. If you doubt the battery is fully charged you can always check it with a meter. Full charge should read 8.4 volts. (DC)

Anyway, since you're powering two XM-L emitters, if you get 1.5hr on high with a two cell battery you should be thrilled. In cold weather expect maybe 1hr 10min to 1hr 20min. In cold weather best to use the bigger batteries.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Hey Skidad,
My second battery test went better too. I was happy with my time on the first test but I wanted to see if the charge indicator/low battery function would work correctly so I hooked up a partially charged 4 cell to save time. Bingo, approx 15 min. of yellow, followed by 15 min. of red and then flashing red and a power step down insteat of just turning off. I think I'm done testing the light in front of a fan for awhile, time for some single track.
Mole


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

MRMOLE said:


> Hey Skidad,
> My second battery test went better too. I was happy with my time on the first test but I wanted to see if the charge indicator/low battery function would work correctly so I hooked up a partially charged 4 cell to save time. Bingo, approx 15 min. of yellow, followed by 15 min. of red and then flashing red and a power step down insteat of just turning off. I think I'm done testing the light in front of a fan for awhile, time for some single track.
> Mole


Please test it with the 2-cell in 40-60* weather


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

gticlay said:


> Please test it with the 2-cell in 40-60* weather


Sorry, I doin't own a 2 cell battery. Even if I did, looking at the current temp outside, it's 2 am and still 70. I don't think I'll see those temps till December.
Mole


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> Hey Skidad,
> My second battery test went better too. I was happy with my time on the first test but I wanted to see if the charge indicator/low battery function would work correctly so I hooked up a partially charged 4 cell to save time. Bingo, approx 15 min. of yellow, followed by 15 min. of red and then flashing red and a power step down insteat of just turning off. I think I'm done testing the light in front of a fan for awhile, time for some single track.
> Mole


Retested the first battery per Chris from Gemini's instrutions

Exact same results almost to the second except I caught the change to amber this time.

1:13 to amber
1:15 to red
1:16 to power down

Only 1 minute from the change from red to power off and almost 9 minutes shorter run time than my other 2 cell. Not complaining here but a bit curious and I sent a PM to Chris. And yes I'm testing the _better _battery yet again per Chris's instructions.

EDIT: Better battery also tested exactly the same as the first time...almost to the second.

I can check the 2 cell in 40-60 degrees as it's getting below 40 degrees here at night now.


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## KonaKen (May 6, 2007)

I took the Duo out tonight and it's a great light. I wish I had other newer lights to compare it to. My history is with DiNotte 400L lights. I will say that this light is almost too bright. I found myself on tight single track using it at 50% power and I was very happy. It was only on the fastest sections did I use it on full power. I found that the reflections from trees, leaves/branches to be very bright if I had it on 100% Depending on your local trails I could see how you would really want to pick something other than Low, Med or High. I found myself liking 60% and it was pretty cool that I could dial it up and down. I can't comment on runtime but the mount was quick to attach and remove (helmet mount). 

I could see how SPOT LENSES would be really great for this light. It has more of a flood pattern and on this cool moist night (55 degrees F) I found that wearing it on the helmet reflected some moisture in my eyes/line of sight. I can see how lowering it to the bars would be nice. I will run this light on the helmet for the time being and wait for a review of the Glowworm X1 and them possibly move it to the bars. Fit and finish seems great, lets see how it holds up. I can say that 4 bikers saw me pulled over on a trail wiring it up as it was dark. They were amazed by the size of the lamp head and waited for me to turn it on. They all gasped when I did :thumbsup:


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

Are spot lenses available for the Duo?


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

KonaKen said:


> ***Snipped version*** I took the Duo out tonight and it's a great light. I will say that this light is almost too bright. I could see how SPOT LENSES would be really great for this light. It has more of a flood pattern and on this cool moist night (55 degrees F) I found that wearing it on the helmet reflected some moisture in my eyes/line of sight. I can see how lowering it to the bars would be nice. Fit and finish seems great, lets see how it holds up. :thumbsup:


Used it last night and I agree with KonaKen.

It is really nice to have that much punch on my helmet with a really low weight (had the 4-cell in my pack).


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

I've been on the fence about this one as my current xm-l titan seems to be bright enough but is just too heavy on the helmet. I was going to get a xera but now that this is out I don't know if I can resist. I'm starting to end up with way too many lights to put to use


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

manbeer said:


> I've been on the fence about this one as my current xm-l titan seems to be bright enough but is just too heavy on the helmet. I was going to get a xera but now that this is out I don't know if I can resist. I'm starting to end up with way too many lights to put to use


You can always recycle the Titan as a super tail light with our new RED wide angle lens


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## manbeer (Oct 14, 2009)

Oh wow, thats brilliant! taking the plunge!


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

manbeer said:


> I've been on the fence about this one as my current xm-l titan seems to be bright enough but is just too heavy on the helmet. I was going to get a xera but now that this is out I don't know if I can resist. I'm starting to end up with way too many lights to put to use


For a helmet light I mainly use a Olympia or a Xera and accasionally a P-7 Titan or MS 808e, last night I tried my Due on the trails for the first time. On the weight issue the Titan/808e tend to make my helmet move around a little more and fatigue my old neck muscles on longer rides even though it's only 40-60 grams of extra weight. Withg the Xera/Duo/Olympia, other than the battery cord I don't even notice them at all. Since your considering either a Xera or a Duo I'd go with the Duo. Your going to get lighter weight with either and a nicer beam pattern (wider and more throw) but only slightly more power(compared to your current Titan) with the Xera, with the Duo you get the additional throw of the Xera with a much wider/more powerful beam. I even like the Duo over the Olympia for helmet use, almost as floody with better throw.

Too many lights? I find switching my combinations of lights is fun and educational. If I never swithced light combos I never would have tried my Olympia as a helmet light. I learned that as long as it has enough throw, a nice wide beam is good on the helmet too. Some times when I ride my rigid single speed I run a Titan w/wide angle lens on the bars and a Titan on my helmet. That light combo provides pleaty of light for the speeds I go on that bike and it makes me appreciate my more powerful light when I use them. When I ordered by Duo, Jim at Action-LED-Lights sent me a red wide angle lens (for tail light use) to try. Using a headlight as a taillight is interesting. It's hard to evaluate a tail light while riding but my friends that I ride with seem to like it. A good imagination helps justify having many different lights. More lights = more fun!
Mole


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Rakuman said:


> *
> I have noticed with Geomans batteries no power meter on any of my lights were accurate so I'm sure you could easily get another half hour out of it...
> so if you want to use Geoman batteries with an Olympia when it dims down just unplug to reset and run it at no more than half power to get the most out of these batteries...,
> and I see zero issues using them with the DUO:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:*
> ...


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

manbeer said:


> I've been on the fence about this one as my current xm-l titan seems to be bright enough but is just too heavy on the helmet. I was going to get a xera but now that this is out I don't know if I can resist.* I'm starting to end up with way too many lights to put to use*


Fighting the urge to upgrade is a tough nut, especially at this time of year when all the new stuff is coming out. Just tell yourself that there are other people with the same problem who are worse off than yourself, then buy what you want. That works for me. 

Sooner or later I will see that the extra stuff gets passed on. I'd like to think that at some point some poor Mexican guy working at the local Wendy's is going to get off work at 1:30AM, go out to his 5yr/old Walmart MTB bike he has chained to a light pole and find a sweet DiNotte 600L sitting on his handlebars ( and PBSF on the seatpost flashing away ).

Now I probably won't hang around to see his reaction but I bet he utters something like, "¡caramba"! :thumbsup:


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

I picked up an Olympia/Xera a few days ago and was super impressed. The Olympia beam looks similar to my friends' Seca 1700s, but at only $220 (lighthead, battery and charger), I couldn't be happier. The size and weight is ideal. The Xera on the helmet with the Olympia is simply excellent; so, this Duo on the helmet with the Olympia on the bars will be even better. Good job Gemini (and Action-Led).

A riding buddy was so impressed with the Gemini lights he promptly ordered a Duo. Interested to see what he thinks.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

skidad said:


> Retested the first battery per Chris from Gemini's instrutions
> 
> Exact same results almost to the second except I caught the change to amber this time.
> 
> ...


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

MRMOLE said:


> skidad said:
> 
> 
> > Retested the first battery per Chris from Gemini's instrutions
> ...


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

I have a question on both the olympia and the duo. Can you build a battery pack to fit both? I have the olympia but would love to get the duo on the other side of my bar, but to only use one 8-10 cell battery. Is this possible? Can it be built?


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

mazspeed said:


> I have a question on both the olympia and the duo. Can you build a battery pack to fit both? I have the olympia but would love to get the duo on the other side of my bar, but to only use one 8-10 cell battery. Is this possible? Can it be built?


Sure, a higher capacity battery is not a problem though building a Li-ion pack is not recommended for DIY without the right equipment. All the cells have to be closely matched for the pack to charge properly. There are plenty of websites selling pre-assembled packs though such as All-Battery
You just need to look for a 7.4V Li-ion pack with PCB (printed circuit board) which is the circuit that prevents over charging and over dis-charging along with helping balance the cells. You can use your current charger, it will just take longer to charge.
An extension cable to give you the connector you need.
There are also several vendors selling high capacity packs all ready to go such as Open Light Systems.
Depending on the run time you need the Gemini 7800mAh 6 cell pack will power both lights for 2+ hours.


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## mazspeed (Oct 17, 2004)

Action LED Lights said:


> Sure, a higher capacity battery is not a problem though building a Li-ion pack is not recommended for DIY without the right equipment. All the cells have to be closely matched for the pack to charge properly. There are plenty of websites selling pre-assembled packs though such as All-Battery
> You just need to look for a 7.4V Li-ion pack with PCB (printed circuit board) which is the circuit that prevents over charging and over dis-charging along with helping balance the cells. You can use your current charger, it will just take longer to charge.
> An extension cable to give you the connector you need.
> There are also several vendors selling high capacity packs all ready to go such as Open Light Systems.
> Depending on the run time you need the Gemini 7800mAh 6 cell pack will power both lights for 2+ hours.


I will contact you later today. Than you very much.


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## raptor_quasar (May 11, 2012)

I'm ready to buy my first front light, the use you'll give is nothing extreme, just long journeys on desolate roads. I am among the DUO and XERA, which I have to buy? DUO or Xera? ( w/ 4 cells pack )


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Just got the Duo. Playing around with it in a dark room with white walls, it appears to be slightly green in tint, comapred to the Xera. I'll have to see how it looks tonight when it's dark but from what I can tell the color temp looks a little different than the Olympia and Xera. Real world shoud tell the whole story; based off this test, I might be sending back for another Xera. Thanks to Action Led for getting this to me so quickly.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

TCW said:


> Just got the Duo. Playing around with it in a dark room with white walls, it appears to be slightly green in tint, comapred to the Xera. I'll have to see how it looks tonight when it's dark but from what I can tell the color temp looks a little different than the Olympia and Xera. Real world shoud tell the whole story; based off this test, I might be sending back for another Xera. Thanks to Action Led for getting this to me so quickly.


If I remember correctly, the Xera was actually a bit too blue (not good for mud and green we have here in the winter). I would welcome a _slightly_ more white or yellow tint.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

To me the Olympia and Xera both look about perfect, very white. I have a Niteflux Photon Max that is more blue comparatively. I also have a Foride (it's just like the MagicShine MJ-856) that is quite warm, tending toward slightly yellow. I prefer the color temp of the Olympia/Xera as they match each other perfectly and appear brilliant white. Of course the Duo may be a good match too but that will require more than shining it on the wall.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Another thing I noticed, the Duo moves around a bit more easy on its mount than the Olympia/Xera . I tried to tighten the bolt but it felt bottomed out already. Thoughts?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

TCW said:


> Another thing I noticed, the Duo moves around a bit more easy on its mount than the Olympia/Xera . I tried to tighten the bolt but it felt bottomed out already. Thoughts?


I noticed the same thing. Thanks for reminding me. I plan to put a washer made from an old tube between the mount and base.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

gmcttr said:


> I noticed the same thing. Thanks for reminding me. I plan to put a washer made from an old tube between the mount and base.


Good idea. I didn't ride tonight but played around outside with the Duo. The Duo has a bit more of a defined hotspot than I expected. The large hotspot seems to have some faint artifacts in the middle which makes it exhibit a slight donut. As I mentioned earlier it has a slightly lower color temp than my other Gemini lights. Tomorrow we are doing a large group ride. I talked a buddy into getting the Duo last week. Hopefully, he will bring his so I can ascertain if I got a dud. My light doesn't appear to have any more throw than my Xera with the wide optic. Something might be wrong.


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## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

mods please delete for factual errors..


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

My buddy with the other Duo didn't show last night so I couldn't directly compare my Duo to his. However, I did compare it to another light, the Light and Motion Taz 1200. The Duo put out more light, the 1400 lumen rating might be legit. Real-world use reveals this to be an excellent light. After the first lap, at dusk we stopped and grabbed the lights. I forgot to grab my bar light so went with the Duo on the helmet, alone. My wife ran the Olympia/Xera combo. On the trail the Duo on high worked well as a single unit, has just enough throw for the open stretches but also has a wide beam for the tight portions of the trail. When we came up on another large group of riders I had to power down to 60% so the dust particles didn't blind me too much; a bar light would've been helpful. 

Anyway, I'm still intereted to see how my buddy's Duo looks in comparison. The slight donut hole in the middle of the beam and lower color temp makes me wonder if the other units look the same. If his is whiter (a better match to the Olympia/Xera) then I will send back to Action Led for trade. If not, I'll happily live with it and chalk it up to the miniscule design of the dual optics.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

TCW said:


> Another thing I noticed, the Duo moves around a bit more easy on its mount than the Olympia/Xera . I tried to tighten the bolt but it felt bottomed out already. Thoughts?


Yeah it's a step bolt. I put a thicker o-ring on mine and now it stays put.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

gmcttr said:


> I noticed the same thing. Thanks for reminding me. I plan to put a washer made from an old tube between the mount and base.





presslab said:


> Yeah it's a step bolt. I put a thicker o-ring on mine and now it stays put.


I cut a washer from an old ultra-thin tube and put it between the mount and light head. Problem solved.


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## Derek.Endress (Nov 6, 2011)

I love my Duo! Purchasing Olympia for the bars next! So far my Duo seems to have enough tension without any twisting yet will keep an eye on the unit. Thanks for the heads up!


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

presslab said:


> Yeah it's a step bolt. I put a thicker o-ring on mine and now it stays put.


Yeah, I didn't have a small, thicker, O-ring laying around so I did the thin-tube shim method. It works well but I'd rather do the o-ring. Might have to pick up a few next time I'm in town. The tension on the Olympia/Xera is just right, IMO. The Duo moves way too easy without modification.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Just recieved the Duo i ordered for the wife. First impressions are the light is very small and looks well built. Same consistency of quality finish as my Xera's. Still light outside so only had a chance to shine in the dark garage. I really like the colour rendition as it is slightly warmer than the Xera. Infact the Xera seems to have a violet tint to it in comparison, it must be the optic as Xm-L's ar not known to have this. Will wait until dark to check out beam shape and overall brightness compared to the Xera.


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## snellvilleGAbiker (Apr 30, 2009)

Just did a 24hr of GA w/ the Duo on helmet and Xera on Handle bar. I let my bro borrow my Olympia and he ran it on his handle bar and Xera on his helmet. All i can say is that "Well done Gemini". I no longer search for a perfect light combo


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just got my Duo 2-cell kit today, and am impressed with the build quality and all that comes with the kit. Even though it's raining I might just have to head out for a ride and test it!


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## anderson76 (Nov 10, 2011)

I just received the Duo and figured I would share my initial impression. My previous helmet light was the MJ 808e (the xml version) that recently stopped working. My principle dislike with the 808e was with its weight which caused my helmet to move around too much in the rough stuff. The Duo is significantly lighter and the difference is dramatic when wearing it on the head. Given its lack of mass it will be interesting to see how well the Duo dissipates heat. The beam is smooth and considerably wider that the 808e. However, lacks a focused hot spot. I don’t believe that it will throw quite as far as the 808e. These are my initial backyard impressions. I will report back after I get the Duo out on the trail.

Is there anyone out there that has access to the Duo and Glow Worm X2 v2? A lot of us would like to know how they compare.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

That's exactly what I need to know!! Duo vs Gloworm X2 beam shot picts. I need a long throw beam that is light and low profile on helmet. Gloworm also coming out with a new X1 soon, just a thought!!


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Gemini may be working on a more spot oriented reflector/optic for the Duo or if enough people ask for it they will.

I call the Duo the Xera on steroids with that nice smooth beam and a maybe bit more throw. I would love to see this thing with a more focused throwing beam option. Gemini....you listening?


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

skidad said:


> Gemini may be working on a more spot oriented reflector/optic for the Duo or if enough people ask for it they will.
> 
> I call the Duo the Xera on steroids with that nice smooth beam and a maybe bit more throw. I would love to see this thing with a more focused throwing beam option. Gemini....you listening?


Seems odd they wouldn't design it to use the same reflector/optic shape/size as the Xera - drop it in and go.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Yea, I think over all you get better value with Gloworm, better features, better Battery with "Pan. cells" also cool meter on battery. Mounting system is lower and stronger, being able to change optic lens is a real + and remote.
I put an order on the Gemini Duo than canceled it, I know the Gemini is great product and well made.

I will wait a few days to make up my mind. Going out for a ride, daylight now!!


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

gticlay said:


> Seems odd they wouldn't design it to use the same reflector/optic shape/size as the Xera - drop it in and go.


the optics on the Duo are a lot smaller than the Xera's optic.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

dgw7000 said:


> That's exactly what I need to know!! Duo vs Gloworm X2 beam shot picts. I need a long throw beam that is light and low profile on helmet. Gloworm also coming out with a new X1 soon, just a thought!!


Whatever the differences I doubt they will be significant. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using the same optics.

Gloworm mentioned a while back that they were considering an even tighter spot optic for
the X2. Now they have become silent on the issue and my guess is that they really couldn't find something that was going to work with the present set-up....at least for the time being.

I'm still waiting for someone to market a quad XP-E2 ( or XP-G2/E2 combo ) set-up which I feel could make a really nice helmet lamp that could have excellent throw.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Cat-man-do said:


> Whatever the differences I doubt they will be significant. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using the same optics.
> 
> Gloworm mentioned a while back that they were considering an even tighter spot optic for
> the X2. Now they have become silent on the issue and my guess is that they really couldn't find something that was going to work with the present set-up....at least for the time being.
> ...


What do you think about the artifacts in the center of the beam I described earlier for the Duo. Does the Gloworm beam have that subtle donut thing going on? From the beam shots I've seen the X2 looks nice, like a Xera doubled up. I still haven't checked out my friend's Duo to see how they compare.


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

TCW said:


> What do you think about the artifacts in the center of the beam I described earlier for the Duo. Does the Gloworm beam have that subtle donut thing going on? From the beam shots I've seen the X2 looks nice, like a Xera doubled up. I still haven't checked out my friend's Duo to see how they compare.


*
"TCW" I just checked mine to see if I can see any artifacts in my beam pattern Nope very smooth distribution, Try this, cover one lens and see if it is still there, you might have something in there causing it..*


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

TCW said:


> What do you think about the artifacts in the center of the beam I described earlier for the Duo. Does the Gloworm beam have that subtle donut thing going on? From the beam shots I've seen the X2 looks nice, like a Xera doubled up. I still haven't checked out my friend's Duo to see how they compare.


I did not see any artifacts in mine, just a smooth beam pattern. This was shot at a white wall 10 feet away, but didn't notice anything on pavement outside either.


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## Brooks04 (Jun 1, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Whatever the differences I doubt they will be significant. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using the same optics.
> 
> Gloworm mentioned a while back that they were considering an even tighter spot optic for
> the X2. Now they have become silent on the issue and my guess is that they really couldn't find something that was going to work with the present set-up....at least for the time being.
> ...


Is it even possible for optics to be created for these lights to throw nearly as well as some reflector based lights due to their small size? I own the X2 Gloworm 2nd version with 2 spot optics and find myself needing more throw. I love the size, helmet mounting, and weight of this light. It would be the perfect light if they could develop new optics that could greatly improve the spot beam.

I just received the Xeccon S-12 and the throw on it is amazing. The larger lighthead with a reflector really does the job at creating a great spot beam. I just hate the helmet mount as it makes the lighthead stickup so far making if feel much heavier on the helmet, which bothers my neck after an hour or so on the bike. I really wish someone could develop a lower profile helmet mounting system for these types of lights, then I think I would be ok with the lighthead size and weight.

As much as I would prefer to have the S-12 on my helmet for throw I will mount it on my handlebar and keep the Gloworm on my helmet. For me I find the helmet mounting of the Gloworm by far superior.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Rakuman said:


> *
> "TCW" I just checked mine to see if I can see any artifacts in my beam pattern Nope very smooth distribution, Try this, cover one lens and see if it is still there, you might have something in there causing it..*


Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced one of the LEDs is messed up. We rode two hours tonight then did some post ride comparisons. My wife's Xera, with stadard optic, out throws my Duo. The overall brightness on my Duo is just barely more than her Xera. Still need to directly compare to my friend's Duo to be 100% certain mine is jacked.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

TCW said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty much convinced one of the LEDs is messed up. We rode two hours tonight then did some post ride comparisons. My wife's Xera, with stadard optic, out throws my Duo. The overall brightness on my Duo is just barely more than her Xera. Still need to directly compare to my friend's Duo to be 100% certain mine is jacked.


We had a new Duo go bad shortly into our ride tonight. The poor girl was so excited to have her new light and it worked for about 10 minutes. We tried everything (2 of us have them already) but nothing seemed to work. I'm sure Action LED will get her squared away but what a bummer for her after listening to all our hype about it. Luckily I had loaned her a Lyzene Super Drive 450 lumen bar light and she made do with that. Living in MA this turned into more of a trail clearing than riding after Sandy came through.


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## rsolti13 (Apr 23, 2012)

Anyone using the Duo with the 4 cell battery attached to the helmet? I am wondering about weight, is 4 too heavy vs the 2 cell?


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## Derek.Endress (Nov 6, 2011)

rsolti13 said:


> Anyone using the Duo with the 4 cell battery attached to the helmet? I am wondering about weight, is 4 too heavy vs the 2 cell?


I am as I wanted the extra time for winter rides. For me it would be too heavy to put on the helmet like some suggest yet I just carry a small bike pack and keep it in there close to my back to keep it warm. We ride at below -25 c here, and at times regularly, and our shortest length of daylight in December/January is only 5 hours. The 4 cell was a wise choice on my part.:thumbsup:


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I agree, the 4 cell really not designed for the helmet. Backpack is perfect.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Brooks04 said:


> ..*.Is it even possible for optics to be created for these lights to throw nearly as well as some reflector based lights due to their small size?* I own the X2 Gloworm 2nd version with 2 spot optics and find myself needing more throw. I love the size, helmet mounting, and weight of this light. It would be the perfect light if they could develop new optics that could greatly improve the spot beam.
> .


I believe that is the million dollar question. The current emitter/optic technology is limited. Reflectors still seem to be the best bet when it comes to providing throw. We may never see a really far throwing emitter/optic set-up until the emitter manufactures decide to design an emitter specifically for that purpose. If they do it will likely resemble something like the old MR-11 halogen bulbs.

Another option would be to create a "Mega" die Led capable of outputting over 2000 lumen. If they can do that without having to deal with heat problems than we will get our thrower helmet lamps....eventually... :thumbsup:


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## anderson76 (Nov 10, 2011)

I got a good night ride in with the Duo on the lid and MJ 872 on the bars. Here are my 2 cents: My old helmet light was the MJ 808e. In comparison the Duo puts out considerably more light but does not throw as far. It is super bright and a great light for when the going gets slow. However, when the speed rises, I really want a more focused beam. At longer distances the light is just too diffuse. If you run a good flood light on the bars, you eyes adjust to the brightness near the bike. Therefore, when looking far ahead, you need a concentrated beam for your spot. In order to look down range with the Duo I found myself turning off the bar flood. 

At shorter distances this thing rocks. With the wide spread, you don’t have to constantly move your head to get the light where you want it. This is much less fatiguing on the neck. I think that the there is consensus emerging about the Duo and the Glow Worm X2. Both use similar if not identical optics. Both are lumen beasts for their size but they are most defiantly not throwers.

It think Cat-man-do has it right about the optics vs reflectors. It looks like the current crop of available optics don’t throw well (at least when paired with an xml). The only way to get these to work at long distances is to crank up the lumens like Lupine does on the Willma and Betty models. Maybe better results could be achieved using small emitters that are easier to focus with small optics.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

What about sanding down some of the small Regina reflectors or something to fit for throw? They are really small and I'm sure someone could get them to fit. I have a bunch of those kicking around.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Well I just found out last night by putting a great light on helmet. The Serfas 1500 mounted higher up in the air projecting down was the best I have ever had for mtb. I also put 2 clones MJ 808e on bars.
This combo was great, so what I'm now thinking buying 2 Gemini Xera in place of the 808e on the bars. The only thing was the weight of the Serfas 1500 head 158g, so it must go on back side of helmet to even out weight.
I just wanted to point out a great light on the head makes a huge difference.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Rakuman said:


> *
> "TCW" I just checked mine to see if I can see any artifacts in my beam pattern Nope very smooth distribution, Try this, cover one lens and see if it is still there, you might have something in there causing it..*


When I cover each optic they both look equally messed up, having subtle artifacts in the center of each. I had my wife evaluate as I pointed each at the white ceiling; didn't tell which was the Duo or the Xera. She described the Duo as "not smooth", "looks a little wider", "looks yellow." She also thought the Xera had quite a bit more intensity. I asked which beam she'd prefer and she chose the Xera; mentioned that she didn't like the defined hot-spot,with abrupt rings of the Duo. She said it looks like her Niterider MiNewt 600 just not as wide. I agree with her assessment. So, this thing is going back to Jim. I asked him to check it out and see if it's actually a lemon. It's possible that it is fine. Maybe my expectations were just too high based upon the Olympia and Xera. I will let you know how this turns out.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Jim is going to send another Duo. Awesome customer service. Action-Led to the rescue.


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## SB Trails (Sep 14, 2012)

Action is where im going to get my lights from for sure once i figure out which ones i want.. Hearing about customer service like that just makes you want to reward those guys doing the right thing..


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## jhymel (May 27, 2009)

Ditto on the customer service at Action. The plastic tip of the plug on my XERA broke off and Jim had one in the mail shortly after I contacted him. It's that kind of attention that makes all the difference.

Two thumbs up for Jim!


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## neninja (Jul 11, 2010)

Cat-man-do said:


> Gloworm mentioned a while back that they were considering an even tighter spot optic for
> the X2. Now they have become silent on the issue and my guess is that they really couldn't find something that was going to work with the present set-up....at least for the time being.


Gloworm have a 'Super-spot' optic in development for the X2 that should be available next month.


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## Gloworm Manufacture (Nov 29, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> Whatever the differences I doubt they will be significant. Matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they were using the same optics.
> 
> Gloworm mentioned a while back that they were considering an even tighter spot optic for
> the X2. Now they have become silent on the issue and my guess is that they really couldn't find something that was going to work with the present set-up....at least for the time being.
> ...


Got us Cat! We have been quiet......however the only reason for our silence is the work thats going into the finalisation of the X1......and the development of the super spots for the X2. We decided that an off the shelf option would not suit our current application - therefore we've had to go toward custom optics.

This process requires a little more time, but the finished result should be a pretty good product.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Gloworm Manufacture said:


> Got us Cat! We have been quiet......however the only reason for our silence is the work thats going into the finalisation of the X1......and the development of the super spots for the X2. We decided that an off the shelf option would not suit our current application - therefore we've had to go toward custom optics.
> 
> This process requires a little more time, but the finished result should be a pretty good product.


Well yeah I figured something like that. I already assumed that we wouldn't be seeing the new optics for the X2 until next year. Not that I'm rushing you but it if they did come out by Christmas that would be nice.

As for me, I'm not a real cold weather rider. I can wait till next year but it would still be nice to have something new to play around with over the winter. Looking forward to what the X1 will bring to the table.


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Anyone but me find the button hard to push? I popped the button out and put a bit of heat shrink tubing over the nub in the middle. Now it's much easier to push, but still not too easy.


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## butasan (May 29, 2009)

Last night was my first ride with DUO (as a helmet light, and Olympia as a bar light), and to be honest, I was disappointed with its throw. No where near as MJ-808 I had. DUO definitely is a flood light. 

Although I like its light weight, it's pretty much useless as a helmet light especially if you have a flood light on your bar.

EDIT: I probably need to mention that I shred downhill even at night so I need a thrower on my helmet. I was fine with 808E in terms of spill and throw, but I hated the weight. It was heavy enough to moved my helmet around so I wanted something a little lighter without sacrificing the throw. I believe DUO works well for XC/Trail type of riding especially if you do not have a floody bar light.


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

I went for my first "real" ride last night on the Duo and have to say I'm impressed! I used the 2-cell battery setup on my helmet to replace my Magicshine 808e XML, while keeping my MJ-872 on the bars. I programmed my 3 settings for 30%, 80%, and 100%. 30% is great for riding on the road or climbing, 80% is good if you want to save battery life, and 100% is ideal for fast descents where you need to throw every bit of light you have as far down trail as possible.

Light intensity is the same at distance as my new MJ-808E (XML version), and much brighter than my old MJ-808 with the SSC-P7. In addition, the Duo beam covers a HUGE area as compared to the MJ-808. The best way I can describe it is that it's a flood pattern that throws just as far as the 808. It's really the perfect headlight IMHO, and pairs really well with a floody bar light like the MJ-872/880/etc. It was great to finally get away from the spotlight effect, have more light on the trail, and be cut free from cords going into the backpack.

I also found that the programming for the light levels are easy to figure out, and the directions in the manual are clear and understandable. It's almost too easy to get into the programming mode though, and I did it on accident at first.The headbelt is also pretty nice and will come in handy for night hikes, camping, and backpacking trips.

My only complaints thus far are:
- Loose screw connection on the mount. As others have said, I'll be adding a piece of tube to tighten this up.
- Battery level indicator. I rode for 1.5 hours on 80-100% and the light still showed green, which obviously is not correct.

Improvements over the MJ-808e:
- Bigger spill on the beam
- No hot spot at close range
- Lighter/smaller setup for the helmet
- Programmable brightness levels
- No more cords to the backpack (with the 2-cell battery)


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Duo vs 808e vs Olympia vs Xera (spot optic) throw test. I took these lightheads up to a canal near my house tonight and used some large two story houses and the opposite inclined bank of the diversion canal (both 150-200 feet away) to shine the lights at. Using light intensity to judge the winner, I'd say the Duo had a very slight advantage over the 808e/Olympia (which were about the same). The clear winner was the Xera w/spot optic. I still prefer the Duo as a helmet lght because of it's beam width advantage over the Xera, but I hope in the near future Gemini will provide us with a spot optic option to give us a little extra throw.
Mole


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Got the replacement Duo from Action-Led. It is smooth (no artifacts) and slightly brighter. It appears to have a higher color temp, yes. Success.


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## dowsiany (Nov 9, 2012)

Hello Everyone,

This question is geared towards anyone who has purchased a DUO. I just received mine this afternoon. I have fully charged the battery and installed it onto my bicycle. I have one question/concern. My LED status indicator continuously stays illuminated regardless if the light is actually on or not. I do not believe it should do this. Can anyone confirm that the LED status indicator turns off when the headlight it turned off. At this point the only way to turn off the green led on the back of the light is to physically unplug the battery. 

Thank you in advance for any replies. 

Daniel


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

dowsiany said:


> Hello Everyone,
> 
> This question is geared towards anyone who has purchased a DUO. I just received mine this afternoon. I have fully charged the battery and installed it onto my bicycle. I have one question/concern. My LED status indicator continuously stays illuminated regardless if the light is actually on or not. I do not believe it should do this. Can anyone confirm that the LED status indicator turns off when the headlight it turned off. At this point the only way to turn off the green led on the back of the light is to physically unplug the battery.
> 
> ...


*Its supposed to be on it lets you know your battery is connected and have power. It takes very little juice dont worry about it *


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## FastZR1 (Aug 10, 2008)

I bought a Duo two weeks ago from Action because of all the good reviews here. When the light came, there was something loose in the light head. It sounded like a little screw was bouncing around in the light head. Anyway, I emailed Action and with no questions asked, Jim dropped a new head in the mail the same day. He instructed me to drop my Duo head back in the shipping tube and affix the prepaid shipping label once I received the new one. Jim even said to use my original Duo if I needed. Thursday my new Duo head showed up but I didn't use it yet. It doesn't have any loose objects inside and powers up as it should. 

Great service and fast shipping from Action. Glad to see some companies still treat the customer so well.


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## snellvilleGAbiker (Apr 30, 2009)

FastZR1 said:


> I bought a Duo two weeks ago from Action because of all the good reviews here. When the light came, there was something loose in the light head. It sounded like a little screw was bouncing around in the light head. Anyway, I emailed Action and with no questions asked, Jim dropped a new head in the mail the same day. He instructed me to drop my Duo head back in the shipping tube and affix the prepaid shipping label once I received the new one. Jim even said to use my original Duo if I needed. Thursday my new Duo head showed up but I didn't use it yet. It doesn't have any loose objects inside and powers up as it should.
> 
> Great service and fast shipping from Action. Glad to see some companies still treat the customer so well.


Jim is the bomb! He always take care of his customers. Deal w/ him a few times and always satisfied w/ his product and service.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I had a chance to try out the Duo last night, this head puts out a nice flood. Comparing it to my Serfas ture 1500 light the Serfas is much better in every way, but 3 times the size and weight. The Serfas light color is more natural also. The color of the Duo is white but when comparing them side by side the Serfas seems more yellow but also more natural to my eye.

I think having 3 led in a row with center being the spot is the way to design a head, the Duo needs more spot in my view. Also puts out alot of heat, I will be sending it back and getting the Xera.

Jim at Action your right!! is the best at taking care and standing behind what he sells, has super fast shipping. Its just hard to competed with the true 1500 when you can get one for 199.00 now, at Price Point.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

That's the only problem with the True 1500 as you mention, size and weight. I compared my wife's Olympia to the True 1500 and they were comparable. I liked the Olympia's color temperature a little better. The best combo I have seen is the Olympia (bars) and Xera on the helmet. The Duo is nice and will be awesome when spot optics are available. I'll probably pick up an Olympia for the bars soon. Right now I'm running a Duo on the helmet and a Niterider MiNewt 600 on the bars.


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## Asahi (Jan 30, 2004)

Ok, guys. I'm coming back from a 4 year night riding heitus and need to get a new light. I got my Light and Motion ARC HID out tonight and the batter will charge but the light won't fire up. I suspect it is the bulb which is $150 so that's a non-starter.

That is all to say for someone used to the 585 Lumen L&M Arc how is the Duo going to compare? I used to do 12 and 24 Hour races with the Arc and was always within a minute or 2 of my daytime laps so the light output was plenty. 

I have read everyone's comments about "throw" and I can relate to almost outrunning my light but we are talking about double the light output of an Arc so I question if optics and throw will really be an issue. 

I spoke to Jim today and he really sold me on the Duo but in reading this thread (yes all 8 pages) I'm wondering if the Xera is the better single light. Oh yeah, I don't want a bar mounted light at all. I prefer a single helmet mounted light.

Any tips from the regulars here?


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Asahi said:


> ...I spoke to Jim today and he really sold me on the Duo but in reading this thread (yes all 8 pages) I'm wondering if the Xera is the better single light. Oh yeah, I don't want a bar mounted light at all. I prefer a single helmet mounted light.
> 
> Any tips from the regulars here?


While some have reported that the Xera has more throw than the Duo, to my eyes the Duo has as much, or a bit more throw with a wider beam. I would pick the Duo if I was only going to use one.


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## snellvilleGAbiker (Apr 30, 2009)

If you are gonna use only one light on the helmet...I'd go w/ Jim suggestion. The Duo will give you enough flood and throw.


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## Asahi (Jan 30, 2004)

Thanks for the input. Has there been a thread about the Duo vs the Gloworm X2? I'm between those 2 systems and I keep coming back to the Gloworm because of the mount.

1400 lumens vs 1200 Lumens. Whats the real world comparison? Noticable?


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## neveo (Feb 27, 2006)

Asahi said:


> Thanks for the input. Has there been a thread about the Duo vs the Gloworm X2? I'm between those 2 systems and I keep coming back to the Gloworm because of the mount.
> 
> 1400 lumens vs 1200 Lumens. Whats the real world comparison? Noticable?


i have been doing the same for a few days trying to decide between the X2 and and Duo for a helmet light. one thing is that i didnt see a 2 cell battery or the extra spot lense availble on the action led site. besides the mount of the x2 i also like that their battery has an indicator. 
would appreciate any comments from someone who has tried both?

thanks
Neveo


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## Asahi (Jan 30, 2004)

neveo said:


> i have been doing the same for a few days trying to decide between the X2 and and Duo for a helmet light. one thing is that i didnt see a 2 cell battery or the extra spot lense availble on the action led site. besides the mount of the x2 i also like that their battery has an indicator.
> would appreciate any comments from someone who has tried both?
> 
> thanks
> Neveo


I've quizzed Jim for a good bit this afternoon. The Gemini 2 Cell battery is compatible with the X2 so there is your 2cell option. After speaking to Jim he has me pointed to the Gemini Duo. He indicated the replacement lenses were in the works so hopefully that becomes a reality. I'm not sold on the remote switch on the X2 as a standard but really do like their helmet mount design.


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## colleen c (May 28, 2011)

Asahi said:


> Thanks for the input. Has there been a thread about the Duo vs the Gloworm X2? I'm between those 2 systems and I keep coming back to the Gloworm because of the mount.
> 
> *1400 lumens vs 1200 Lumens. Whats the real world comparison? Noticable?*


The 200 lumens difference is not so important in terms of brightness but more so in terms of beam pattern and how the beam pattern will untilize the 200 lumens difference. So far there has not been any direct beamshot comparison between the two brand. That being said, it is a tough desicion.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I just compared the Duo to Xera tonight, the Duo has much wider seamless spread. Almost as much throw as the Xera with spot lens, but I do not like the Xera with spot lens installed. Pattern not smooth to my eye. The more I use the Duo the more I like it, I may get the X2 now and go head to head with Duo. 

One more note, Xera is better than my Clone Magicshine 808e more throw and wider spread.


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## jhymel (May 27, 2009)

Asahi said:


> I've quizzed Jim for a good bit this afternoon. The Gemini 2 Cell battery is compatible with the X2 so there is your 2cell option. After speaking to Jim he has me pointed to the Gemini Duo. He indicated the replacement lenses were in the works so hopefully that becomes a reality. I'm not sold on the remote switch on the X2 as a standard but really do like their helmet mount design.


Funny I quizzed Jim as well today and after talking to him I decided to go with the Duo so I have one on the way. If I didn't already have the XERAs I might have gone with the X2 but I've been using the XERAs for a year now and I like the quality of the light and battery. I'm assuming that will carry over to the Duo. One other thing that I like about the Duo is the ability to program your three power levels to whatever you want them to be. For example on my XERA low-med-high is 30%-70%-100%. The X2 comes with a variety of preprogrammed power levels but I like the ability to tweak it like I need it.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

jhymel said:


> Funny I quizzed Jim as well today and after talking to him I decided to go with the Duo so I have one on the way. If I didn't already have the XERAs I might have gone with the X2 but I've been using the XERAs for a year now and I like the quality of the light and battery. I'm assuming that will carry over to the Duo. One other thing that I like about the Duo is the ability to program your three power levels to whatever you want them to be. For example on my XERA low-med-high is 30%-70%-100%. The X2 comes with a variety of preprogrammed power levels but I like the ability to tweak it like I need it.


Would have loved them except that they would not use much of the Geoman batteries. I guess the new Duo is OK but :???/


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## jhymel (May 27, 2009)

gticlay said:


> Would have loved them except that they would not use much of the Geoman batteries. I guess the new Duo is OK but :???/


Well are you faulting the light because the Geo batteries were made to be too safe?. I would think most two-led set ups have the potential to run into this issue if the draw is too much. I've used the Geo batteries for my XERAs for a year and I normally get 3.25 - 3.5 hours of runtime on high for one light head. This past week I've been experimenting with two running from one Geo. When I run both XERAs on high I get about 30 minutes before the battery indicators turn red. If I run them on a medium level I can get more time.

I have yet to do a complete run down test since I've only tested this config on actual rides and along with this I'm testing another new light on the helmet. Too many "new" items/configs in the mix and I don't want to be left in the dark on a ride, so I have yet to push the config to cutoff.

While there has been reports of the Geo batteries not running completely out, there are also some reports of them working fine on the Duo http://forums.mtbr.com/9783494-post81.html


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

Been loving the light the past couple weeks. It's on my helmet, and has good brightness, and very light. I've been toying with the idea of replacing just one of the lenses with a more spot beam; anyone know of something suitable?

The other night I did a particularly wet night ride, and while looking at the light I saw something funny on the lens. Turns out it was inside, as a teaspoon of water got inside the light. The two screws were tight when I removed them, and the gasket looked intact. I'll put a bit of silicone on the gasket when I put it back together after it's dried out.


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## Poppaj (Dec 17, 2011)

Was loving my duo until the other night. Was out on a night build here on the shore when all of a sudden the light turned off. It was on the med setting and had been on for about 2hrs. Thank god I was with another gnome and had a spare light to get out of the woods. When I got out I turned the duo back on and it had less light than a candle. Went home charged it up, reset the light and same issue ... candles worth of light. Anyone else had any issues? Is the unit dead? Anything I can do?


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Poppaj said:


> Was loving my duo until the other night. Was out on a night build here on the shore when all of a sudden the light turned off. It was on the med setting and had been on for about 2hrs. Thank god I was with another gnome and had a spare light to get out of the woods. When I got out I turned the duo back on and it had less light than a candle. Went home charged it up, reset the light and same issue ... candles worth of light. Anyone else had any issues? Is the unit dead? Anything I can do?


Poppaj,

You can get a hold of us or Gemini and we'll get a new light head set out to you right away.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

jhymel said:


> Well are you faulting the light because the Geo batteries were made to be too safe?. I would think most two-led set ups have the potential to run into this issue if the draw is too much. I've used the Geo batteries for my XERAs for a year and I normally get 3.25 - 3.5 hours of runtime on high for one light head. This past week I've been experimenting with two running from one Geo. When I run both XERAs on high I get about 30 minutes before the battery indicators turn red. If I run them on a medium level I can get more time.
> 
> I have yet to do a complete run down test since I've only tested this config on actual rides and along with this I'm testing another new light on the helmet. Too many "new" items/configs in the mix and I don't want to be left in the dark on a ride, so I have yet to push the config to cutoff.
> 
> While there has been reports of the Geo batteries not running completely out, there are also some reports of them working fine on the Duo http://forums.mtbr.com/9783494-post81.html


Actually, it was the xera that wasn't working - they would go into some sort of pulsing low battery mode when there was plenty of "juice" left. The battery never shut down. Been watching the Duo and not sure if it will work better with them. :frustrated:


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## TwoHeadsBrewing (Aug 28, 2009)

Just wanted to post an update on the Duo after using it several times on the trails. 

In short, it's been 95% perfect with just one actual problem, and one minor nag:

Problem: Rear light never changes color to indicate battery level. It stays on green until the light shuts off. I know I'm good for 1.5 hours on high with the 2-cell, but it's not working as advertised.

Nag: As others have mentioned, the lack of an optic/reflector for greater throw. For most of my riding which is singletrack it's not necessary. However, I could see on a super fast gravel road descent that I might want more distance. Just to have the option would be nice.


Other than those two items, the light has worked amazingly well and truly lights up the night. I could easily ride with just this light on the helmet. It throws just as far as the MJ808e, but with a nice smooth pattern, no hot spot, and a LOT of spill. I've paired the Duo on my helmet with an MJ-872 on the bars which has been a great combination. On high it's totally overkill for anything but the fast descents. For climbing I like both set on 60% output which is more than enough, but gives a long run time. The two beams compliment each other well, since they both are smooth patterns with no discernible hot spots. From the front tire to about 80 yards out I have a completely illuminated trail.

I also like the ability to program in the 3 light brightness settings on the Duo. I found the stock settings (20/60/100) to be fine, but IMHO the 20% isn't very usable on the trail. Good for work around the house, camping, or walking/running but I really don't use it for those purposes. I changed the lowest setting to 40%, which is perfect for slower speed on the trail and gives a runtime of 6.75 hours on the 2-cell. Battery life has seemed very close to what is advertised, although I've yet to do an actual measured run-down test.


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Strange on the not changing colors. My Duo changed with both my 2 cell batteries when doing the run time tests. Of course I can't see it on my helmet to know what it's doing. 90% of the time I run it in the mid 60% setting along with my 856 (the 872 clone in finned housing) in the #2 setting and I'm good. Near the very end of a ride I'll just blast everything for fun.

I've had no issues with my Duo but a girl I ride with got one and had to send it back after it failed on her first ride and there's been some other reported issues also in these threads. Action LED has been outstanding in all these cases but maybe Gemini needs to watch the QC a bit better.....and yes a spot option would be nice to have/try.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I do like the Duo on the helmet, but have not tried it yet on the bars. The Duo on last Monday night 2.2 hour ride with my favorite battery Magicshine MJ-6030 5600mAh lasted the entire ride on high.
I also like the cover the battery comes with neoprene so it pulls nice and tight, also has Samsung cells.

I just pulled the trigger on a Trail Torch TT1800. The company has not had any comebacks or returns, made in the USA, PA. I have a feeling this will be my best light!! This will be my dedicated helmet light, I bought it without the battery to save some money, so I will need to install a Magicshine plug to the light inorder to use all my MJ 6030 battery packs. The Duo may make a good handlebar light!!


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## Francis Cebedo (Aug 1, 1996)

Mtbr review is here.

Gemini Duo - 2013 Mtbr Lights Shootout | Mountain Bike Review

The only thing missing is a video review of me talking about the light.

fc


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## presslab (Jan 5, 2007)

presslab said:


> Been loving the light the past couple weeks. It's on my helmet, and has good brightness, and very light. I've been toying with the idea of replacing just one of the lenses with a more spot beam; anyone know of something suitable?
> 
> The other night I did a particularly wet night ride, and while looking at the light I saw something funny on the lens. Turns out it was inside, as a teaspoon of water got inside the light. The two screws were tight when I removed them, and the gasket looked intact. I'll put a bit of silicone on the gasket when I put it back together after it's dried out.


Follow up: I tried another lens (Ledil FA10661) and it had pretty much the same spot size when viewed close, but it was certainly brighter when viewed far away. This lens is the same diameter, but unfortunately longer. Maybe the added length makes it more efficient.

I put the light back together with the original lenses and I noticed something with the sealing. There is one gasket that seals the lenses from the front, but there also needs to be a gasket that seals the part that holds the lenses in to the body. There wasn't one, so I used a bit of silicone around the outside in the small gap. This was the source of my water intrusion.

Is this a design problem? Or is my light missing this second gasket?


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## FastZR1 (Aug 10, 2008)

FastZR1 said:


> I bought a Duo two weeks ago from Action because of all the good reviews here. When the light came, there was something loose in the light head. It sounded like a little screw was bouncing around in the light head. Anyway, I emailed Action and with no questions asked, Jim dropped a new head in the mail the same day. He instructed me to drop my Duo head back in the shipping tube and affix the prepaid shipping label once I received the new one. Jim even said to use my original Duo if I needed. Thursday my new Duo head showed up but I didn't use it yet. It doesn't have any loose objects inside and powers up as it should.
> 
> Great service and fast shipping from Action. Glad to see some companies still treat the customer so well.


I've had the chance to use my light a couple times. I mount it on my helmet and it throws enough light for my ride. I haven't even messed with my old light which I was going to put on my bars. The Duo is compact and exactly what I want for a helmet light. It may not throw a huge spot but it works great for me.


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

presslab said:


> ...There is one gasket that seals the lenses from the front, but there also needs to be a gasket that seals the part that holds the lenses in to the body. There wasn't one, so I used a bit of silicone around the outside in the small gap. This was the source of my water intrusion.
> 
> Is this a design problem? Or is my light missing this second gasket?


Mine only has gaskets on the lenses and not between the light body and bezel. It seems not to meet the advertised "designed to withstand the most extreme conditions including rain...".:skep:


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

gmcttr said:


> Mine only has gaskets on the lenses and not between the light body and bezel. It seems not to meet the advertised "designed to withstand the most extreme conditions including rain...".:skep:


*
Hum!!! this has got me worried:bluefrown: was there supposed to be a gasket in there and it was left out, or a design flaw. and whats the best fix.....
Maybe Gemini can shed some light on this. That said I love my Duo and wouldn't trade it for anything. Now get us a spot lens PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!*


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Rakuman said:


> *...was there supposed to be a gasket in there and it was left out, or a design flaw. and whats the best fix...*


I'd call it a design omission. There doesn't appear to be any provisions made for a gasket.


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## cbratt (Jun 21, 2005)

*Love it*

Purchased the Gemini Duo last weekend from Action LED Lights after researching here on mtbr and also after finding out the replacement battery for my aging Light & Motion ARC setup was $220!!!

The new Duo is everything I'd hoped it would be. It is so much brighter than the ARC that I only ran the Duo on 60% power on first 2+ hour night ride. I couldn't believe how much brighter and more usable the light from this little beauty is. I only run one light (helmet mount) and I didn't really understand when people were talking about 'riding at night as fast as they do during the day'. Well, now I understand.

I hope that this thing has the longevity and lasts for several years, because my first impression is great.


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## gticlay (Dec 13, 2007)

BTW, just did a rundown test with a DUO and a GEOMANGEAR 4.5Ah pack and got about 2 hours, which is great. No issues with low voltage, etc like with the Xeras I had. Can't wait to try it on trail.

ALSO, I have some more spotty optics to try in this bad boy. Some of you have complained about the lenses they used being a bit floody. I'll report after I try them out.



Rakuman said:


> *Ok did a 3 hour rundown test with Geoman 6.0 batterys had to stop to recharge so I could use the batteries tonight.
> Olympia on high at 100 min started flashing red and powered dimmed I shut it down and unplugged and replugged to reset and was able to get another 60 minutes at 60% setting which is more than enough light for most trails. at 3 hours it was still running at its dimmed setting.
> Duo at 3 hours it was still running strong on high. battery meter was showing red.
> I have noticed with Geomans batteries no power meter on any of my lights were accurate so I'm sure you could easily get another half hour out of it...
> ...


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## Rakuman (Oct 30, 2004)

*So can anyone tell me why this lens wont work to make this light a spotlight it has the same Dimensions of the existing lens 20mm x 11mm but at 5 degrees instead of 15 degrees.?*
5pcs 5 Deg 20mm Lens Reflector Collimator 1W 3W 5W LED | eBay


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Rakuman said:


> *So can anyone tell me why this lens wont work to make this light a spotlight it has the same Dimensions of the existing lens 20mm x 11mm but at 5 degrees instead of 15 degrees.?*


It doesn't state in the listing what LED this optic is designed for. That may change the beam angle or possibly cause it to not fit over the LED dome.

They look very similar to the LEDDNA optic less the optic mount. Those are made for an XML but need the optic mount to space the LED dome to the proper depth in most applications.

They're cheap. Buy a pack and give 'em a try.


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## BBW (Feb 25, 2004)

cat-man-do said:


> the duo and gloworm x2 look like a piko clone.


*fixed*
:d


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## bobkorn (Dec 6, 2011)

"Man-- im stuck between the duo and the gloworm...
Same here. If anyone ends up with both the Duo and the Gloworm I'd love to know how they compare."

Anyone have the answer?


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

bobkorn said:


> "Man-- im stuck between the duo and the gloworm...
> Same here. If anyone ends up with both the Duo and the Gloworm I'd love to know how they compare."
> 
> Anyone have the answer?


Some position as few months ago. I went Gloworm. It seemed to edge out the Duo in tests/real specs and I much preferred the mount system. Not disappointed, it is excellent product.


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## bobkorn (Dec 6, 2011)

bad andy said:


> Some position as few months ago. I went Gloworm. It seemed to edge out the Duo in tests/real specs and I much preferred the mount system. Not disappointed, it is excellent product.


Any problems with the remote switch? I plan on using this as a helmet light with nothing on the bars.  How are you using it?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bobkorn said:


> "Man-- im stuck between the duo and the gloworm...
> Same here. If anyone ends up with both the Duo and the Gloworm I'd love to know how they compare."
> 
> Anyone have the answer?


Both have nice features. All things considered, I like the mounting options/adjustability of the Gloworm. I also love the fact that it has a wired remote.

Gloworm is about to release it's new version of the X2 as well as some other newer options. At least that is what I've been told. While I don't have details I think it safe to say an X2 with XM-L2 emitters is forthcoming. Not sure but it might also contain a new UI. Expect to see the new stuff sometime after _Interbike_.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

bobkorn said:


> Any problems with the remote switch? I plan on using this as a helmet light with nothing on the bars. How are you using it?


I went dual glowworm setup: X1 helmet / X2 bars. (awesome) no problems with remote switch, I made sure my helmet was nice and clean before affixing the velcro piece so it would adhere well. All has been great, the wired remote has never failed me.

Listen to Cat... best to see what comes of interbike before any purchase at this point. Not only if for new product enhancements, but cost of old product may drop a bit too. (just speculating)


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## bobkorn (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks for the info. It's been this long, I guess I can wait a few weeks to order it.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

bad andy said:


> I went dual glowworm setup: X1 helmet / X2 bars. (awesome) no problems with remote switch, I made sure my helmet was nice and clean before affixing the velcro piece so it would adhere well. All has been great, the wired remote has never failed me.
> 
> Listen to Cat... best to see what comes of interbike before any purchase at this point. Not only if for new product enhancements, but cost of old product may drop a bit too. (just speculating)


....I'm also hoping that there will be an advance pre-order option as there was with the other versions since the new ones will likely be more expensive.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Cat-man-do said:


> Both have nice features. All things considered, I like the mounting options/adjustability of the Gloworm. I also love the fact that it has a wired remote.
> 
> Gloworm is about to release it's new version of the X2 as well as some other newer options. At least that is what I've been told. While I don't have details I think it safe to say an X2 with XM-L2 emitters is forthcoming. Not sure but it might also contain a new UI. Expect to see the new stuff sometime after _Interbike_.


 I think Gloworm may be pulling away on this one. I have the Duo and really like it however the mounting goes to the Gloworm for my taste. As well,,, I spoke to Gemini a couple of weeks ago inquiring about the new XM-L2's and was told there was nothing in the works, if true I would give the nod all the way to the Gloworm.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Just received an email from Chris at Gemini. Despite an earlier email from one of Gemini's staff stating there was nothing in the works Chris has confirmed with me that all products will be coming out shortly with the XM-L2 emitters.

- The Xera will now be 950lumens
- The Duo 1500 lumens
- The Olympia 2100 lumens

price nor any changes to the UI were mentioned yet. Hopefully Gemini's lumen claims this year will be a little more accurate to what is OTF than last years models. They have sent their products already to Francois for testing.


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## bobkorn (Dec 6, 2011)

indebt said:


> Just received an email from Chris at Gemini. Despite an earlier email from one of Gemini's staff stating there was nothing in the works Chris has confirmed with me that all products will be coming out shortly with the XM-L2 emitters.


Don't know the technology, so could you please explain what this means and how it will improve the existing models.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

bobkorn said:


> Don't know the technology, so could you please explain what this means and how it will improve the existing models.


The XM-L2 is the latest generation of LED from CREE. With the same power input as the previous version (the XM-L), it produces more light and less heat. CREE is constantly working to improve the efficiency of there LED and a new version seems to come out about every 6-9 months.


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## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

Yep, Cree released the XM-L2 last December. Should be about time for a new release :thumbsup:

***


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

scar said:


> Yep, Cree released the XM-L2 last December. Should be about time for a new release :thumbsup:
> 
> ***


It could be.

They announced it last December, but it wasn't commercially available until a few months ago


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

Yeah, really hoping the lumen outputs are closer to claimed with the new Gemini lights. Sad story, we live in Oklahoma. I was in Tulsa at the Cancer Treatment Center with my little brother, when a round of tornadoes hit central Ok. My wife was in Norman. She lost all power so jumped in the car to head to a friends house and hole up in their shelter. She grabbed her Xera; it was on the headband with a 4-cell battery attached to the back. Late that night a looter broke into the car and ripped off the light, car stereo, amp and paperwork for her job. People suck. 

She misses the Xera and has used the Olympia on the helmet alone. She really dug the Olympia on bars/Xera on helmet setup. She'll be even happier with a brighter Xera on the lid, assuming it can get close to 950 lumens.


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

Sorry to hear about the looting TCW, sounds like you have enough on your plate never mind having to deal with some scumbag ripping you off. Yeh I think Gemini knows they may have been a little over optimistic last year,, hopefully they are more in tune with their claims this year. 

On a different note,,,,,, I just got back from the first night ride of the season,, i'm still buzzing,,,,,, hope I can sleep!!! Wow night riding is just awesome!!! Cheers!!


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## skidad (May 23, 2005)

Yup, 2 night rides now under my belt and also on my new Banshee Spitfire V2 650b. :thumbsup::thumbsup: for both!!

Still loving my Duo and MS856 combo but since I haven't been following the lighting threads I was wondering if Gemini (or Action LED) ever got around to making a more focused optic or reflector for the Duo? Would like to see a bit more throw if possible.


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## pucked up (Mar 22, 2006)

skidad said:


> I was wondering if Gemini (or Action LED) ever got around to making a more focused optic or reflector for the Duo? Would like to see a bit more throw if possible.


That would be a "No" for now. We'll see what happens with the new models coming out. But if you're looking for more throw, I would recommend looking at Gloworm's X1.


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## TCW (Mar 13, 2006)

pucked up said:


> That would be a "No" for now. We'll see what happens with the new models coming out. But if you're looking for more throw, I would recommend looking at Gloworm's X1.


The Duo would really benefit from tighter optics for us using it on the helmet. I know the lumens were higher but I perceived the output of the Xera being higher when used with the Olympia on the bars since it seemed to punch through a little better. Since I have to replace my wife's Xera anyway I might just give the GW X1 a try. I trust their lumen claims more anyway due to last year's shootout. I really like the adjustable light settings of the Gemini lights but would probably like GW's program features as well. So many decisions....


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

Any idea when the new lights are coming out?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## indebt (Nov 8, 2009)

spankone said:


> Any idea when the new lights are coming out?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


Chris was saying if you ordered from Gemini's website now, customers would be sent the new product direct from China, not sure how long that would take. Other wise a few more weeks till Action and everyone else has stock.


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## spankone (Aug 31, 2011)

Wow that's cool.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

indebt said:


> Chris was saying if you ordered from Gemini's website now, customers would be sent the new product direct from China, not sure how long that would take. Other wise a few more weeks till Action and everyone else has stock.


Yes they will ship out the lights with the new leds.


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## dirt-nerd (Aug 12, 2009)

I literally just bought an Olympia setup ($330) in BC and it said 1700 lumens upgraded to 1800 lumens and Dunbar Cycle on the previous has 2100 Gemini Olympia setup on sale for $239. Did I just buy last years model??


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## Trophy (Jan 10, 2013)

I needed one asap. Just bought the old duo model today! The sale price was only 7 dollars cheaper than this new one! Had no idea that they were out already...


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

dirt-nerd said:


> I literally just bought an Olympia setup ($330) in BC and it said 1700 lumens upgraded to 1800 lumens and Dunbar Cycle on the previous has 2100 Gemini Olympia setup on sale for $239. Did I just buy last years model??


Yes. The new model are rated at more lumens due to the new cree led. Gemini is already shipping them out with the new led.


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

Northernstyle101 said:


> The new ones are in stock here (link removed)


Northernsyyle101, If your part of Dunbar cycles you need to identify yourself as such. (registered yesterday and this was your first post so it seems like you are)


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Does smell a bit Spammy!


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## dirt-nerd (Aug 12, 2009)

Gharddog03 said:


> Yes. The new model are rated at more lumens due to the new cree led. Gemini is already shipping them out with the new led.


Thanks- returned 1800 & ordered the 2100 Olympia.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Action-LED is the only place I will deal with. There service is second to none. If you ever have a problem they stand behind what they sell and ship out next day.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

dgw7000 said:


> Action-LED is the only place I will deal with. There service is second to none. If you ever have a problem they stand behind what they sell and ship out next day.


Agreed. Jim is top notch.


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## bobkorn (Dec 6, 2011)

Gharddog03 said:


> Agreed. Jim is top notch.


You are so right. I talked with Jim a few times before ordering my light from him. He was great, spent the time I needed answering all my questions and saved me money on top of it.


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## Technician (Oct 11, 2013)

I just bought the Duo from Dunbar yesterday (will likely receive it tomorrow); is there a chance that it will be an older model rather than the latest & greatest?


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Technician said:


> I just bought the Duo from Dunbar yesterday (will likely receive it tomorrow); is there a chance that it will be an older model rather than the latest & greatest?


It appears to be the latest version with 1500 lumens and the new xml 2 cree leds. Did you order with 2cell or 4cell? They are killer lights. :thumbsup:


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## Technician (Oct 11, 2013)

Gharddog03 said:


> It appears to be the latest version with 1500 lumens and the new xml 2 cree leds. Did you order with 2cell or 4cell? They are killer lights. :thumbsup:


Giddy Up!









4 cell battery.


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

Technician said:


> 4 cell battery.


Sweet, good run times.


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## sdsyver (May 8, 2013)

I just ordered 2013 Gemini Duo and Olympia from Action LED. Deals were to good to pass up. The lights will be used in primarily only in the winter and did not think the extra lumins of the 2014 gear justified the extra cost.


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## eggdog (Nov 17, 2010)

Just ordered the Gemini Duo and as everyone loving it! Looking to order a spare battery pack from Amazon as a spare. Would this battery fit the Duo ?

Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light


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## Gharddog03 (Sep 25, 2013)

eggdog said:


> Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light


Should work. If it's a true 6600mah you should get close to 4 hours of runtime on high (100%).


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## Action LED Lights (Nov 11, 2011)

eggdog said:


> Just ordered the Gemini Duo and as everyone loving it! Looking to order a spare battery pack from Amazon as a spare. Would this battery fit the Duo ?
> 
> Replacement 8.4V 6600mAh Rechargeable Battery Pack for Headlamp & Bicycle Light


There's no guaranty the connector is the same since they don't state the size. (you need a 5.5 x 2.1mm) 
The run times they're stating are pretty poor (3-4 hour for a single led light) I'd say there's a good chance you would be throwing your money away.


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

Do not skimp out on the battery, the Gemini soft case 4 Samsung cell at 55 bucks is the way to go. Light and compact fits in pocket or pack. I got 2.5 hours on high with my 1200 lumen Duo last night and still not fully drained.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

I recently bought this light and have noticed it will dim down from the high setting, then increase back after a minute or two. This was occurring during a mtb while in motion. There was some climbing, but this is Texas, so nothing extended. Temps were in the low 60's f.

I assume this is the thermal protection kicking in? Is there any way to improve this? Temps here in the summer at night can be 90f, and the terrain is not conducive to switching light levels. Would the glowworm be any better, or should I assume any small light is going to suffer the same issue? Fwiw, I've not had this issue before with the 4x xpg lights I've been running in exactly the same conditions...


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## dgw7000 (Aug 31, 2011)

I have the same problem with my Duo and the temp in DE at night is about 39 to 45 degree. I stopped using it for this problem and now use Solar Storm x2 light on my head.


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## TechniKal (Mar 18, 2004)

Thanks for the feedback. That's really a shame. I love the size and beam pattern, but I think the temps and trail conditions around here aren't going to let me run it in high.


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## herrhaus (May 29, 2009)

I've had no issues with mine (purchased in Oct last year). Run time is great, beam pattern is great, weight is great, seems to be holding up just fine.


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