# Woom Off Air...other options?



## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

I’m looking at the Woom Off Air 24in for my son. The weight is awesome (22 lbs) for air suspension fork and pretty decent components. It’s roughly $800

Is there anything else out there the compares to the price/quality of this one?


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

Out of the box probably not.

DIY, you might come out with a nicer bike at a similar price basing things around a Chinese carbon frame + Manitou Junit fork:
https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/manitou-machete-j-unit-forks/rp-prod188907

Somewhere in the middle would be buying the base Woom OFF and adding the Junit fork -- would be slightly more than the Air, but give a nicer fork for slightly more. Note that this would require replacing the headset and rebuilding the front wheel on a boost hub.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

That's a nice bike for the price and weight! I didn't dive deep into it but it seems pretty nice, I forget Woom makes these.


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

I bought the Woom Off 5 (with carbon fork)

I compared it to DIY bike, base on a carbon frameset from Aliexpress, and wheels from Spawn Cycles. The result would have been more expensive than buying the Woom (I'm from Israel, so shipping rates can change this calculation a lot if you're in the continental US)

Really, the only downside of the Woom, from my point of view, is that I had nothing to upgrade there . . . It's probably the best 24" bike, straight out of the box.

I did add a dropper seat post, and the bike still weighs less than 9.5kg.


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

oren_hershco said:


> )
> Really, the only downside of the Woom, from my point of view, is that I had nothing to upgrade there . . . It's probably the best 24" bike, straight out of the box.


Yea, that's what I'm finding as well

I dragged my feet on ordering it for a couple days, then when I did go to order it's out of stock

Guess I'll be waiting till they get more in

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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

The cassette range is def an area worthy of an upgrade. A 10sp 11-42 is really useful (my 8yro is on a 10-42 w/ 30t ring). He uses every gear for sure on both sides of the cassette. Most 20" bikes come with 11-36. The nicer stuff from Prevelo/Spawn/Trailcraft in 24" are all 11-42. Prob a cheap swap. Its def a killer bike for the weight. I think aside from the cassette, they nailed it for that price. I love the light wheels. I bet they are litteraly half the weight of the ridiculous 36h i30 tanks that came with our Commencal bike (and their others). So dumb. The rocket rons are the perfect choice to for the bike.


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## Encinitas Rider (May 16, 2019)

I have it in my mind to buy a Woom Off 5 and swap the cassette for an 11-40 Sunrace, 9 speed.
If this works, it would be the easiest upgrade ever. All the rest of the parts can stay the same hopefully. Please share what you know and what you do.
I am also not decided between rigid and suspension. 
I've read they are going to offer the suspension fork separately for a retrofit. If they are reasonable (and Woom always is, IMO) I will buy rigid and upgrade later.


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## svinyard (Aug 14, 2017)

Encinitas Rider said:


> I have it in my mind to buy a Woom Off 5 and swap the cassette for an 11-40 Sunrace, 9 speed.
> If this works, it would be the easiest upgrade ever. All the rest of the parts can stay the same hopefully. Please share what you know and what you do.
> I am also not decided between rigid and suspension.
> I've read they are going to offer the suspension fork separately for a retrofit. If they are reasonable (and Woom always is, IMO) I will buy rigid and upgrade later.


I'd just get the air fork with it. As long as the fork is decent, it can be real nice for kids on small wheels that feel EVERY bump due to the reduced roller over compared to a 29er/605B. Resale will be better as well.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

Encinitas Rider said:


> I have it in my mind to buy a Woom Off 5 and swap the cassette for an 11-40 Sunrace, 9 speed.


Will an 11-40 cassette work with the short cage derailleur? The mid cage derailleur gets pretty close to the ground on the 20" last I tried, but that was years ago.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

double post whoops


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## Encinitas Rider (May 16, 2019)

Do you know what derailleur size is on the woom 5 (24".)

Also, what about tubeless? Have you tried, is it easy, hard, worth it?

I have a feeling most "hard core" MTB parents are going to scoff at Woom so there won't be much information going around about these things.

There's never been almost anything about Woom in these forums even though their regular line was fantastic for kids, especially compared with what was available three-four years ago.


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## oren_hershco (Mar 11, 2006)

There's no need to change the cassette on the Woom Off 5. It comes with a 28T chainring, and combined with the 24" wheel you get a short gear identical to the shortest gear on any standard MTB.


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## ATX_MTB (May 6, 2020)

I was frustrated about the lack of info on the Woom Off and Off Air as well, but considering the Off came out late last year and the Off Air is less than a month old I guess it isn’t surprising. Also, I don’t know how big of a production run Woom did on the off air, but it was sold out within a few days of release. No telling how many people have one to review. I got a Woom Off Air 5 for my daughter and my younger son is waiting for the Off 4 to be back in stock. She loves the Off Air. 

The rims are not tubles ready. I had to cut out the plastic spoke guard from the rim and I put Stan’s rim tape on them. There was some leaking through the side of the rim (seam) but it plugged pretty quickly. Also, the Rocket Ron’s aren’t tubless ready either, but the Scwalbe website said they could be converted. One tire converted pretty easily. The other required spinning every so often for about 10-15 minutes to completely seal up. Been about three weeks and 30 plus miles and they are holding air just fine.


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## Nick_A (Sep 12, 2012)

Welp, 

Ended up getting a Trailcraft Pineridge 24 since Woom is backordered for a while. Should be here next week


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## nwa bike dad (Apr 21, 2018)

Nick_A said:


> Welp,
> 
> Ended up getting a Trailcraft Pineridge 24 since Woom is backordered for a while. Should be here next week
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Great bike! He'll love it.


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## onlyontwo (Nov 21, 2006)

Jumping in late here as I too was looking for info before we ordered. The Woom Off Air is a great bike! We ordered both a 20" and a 24" when they came back into stock a month and a half ago. Our kids absolutely love them and took to them really quickly. The build quality is great and they seem to be holding up really well too. My only real gripe is the lack of tubeless ready wheels/tires. But even the tubes they specced are decent...

Cheers,
-A


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## TrekWarMachine (Jul 26, 2017)

I'm planning on ordering a Woom 5 Off Air (24") when they come back in stock for my son who will be turning 8 this month. He will be coming from a Trek Precaliber 20" 6-speed with suspension fork (25.4 lbs). I'm debating between the rigid model (18.9 lbs) vs the air fork model (22.3 lbs), but even with the air fork, it will be a bigger, but lighter bike from what he currently has. For the extra $200, it seems worth it to get the air fork model, also since he likes jumps and for the type of trails/terrain that we ride. The specs/price/feedback about the bikes seem perfect!


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## aski (Oct 12, 2006)

If there is anyone that currently has the Woom 5 Off Air (and the time to check), could you please post the standover height? The Woom site lists the minimum saddle height, but not standover. I have searched everywhere and cannot find this measurement anywhere. Thanks in advance.


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## onlyontwo (Nov 21, 2006)

aski said:


> If there is anyone that currently has the Woom 5 Off Air (and the time to check), could you please post the standover height? The Woom site lists the minimum saddle height, but not standover. I have searched everywhere and cannot find this measurement anywhere. Thanks in advance.


I will try and remember to measure when I get home tonight.

Cheers,
-A


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## AuroraB (Nov 5, 2020)

Was anyone able to get the standover height for the Woom 5?  Wondering about this myself.


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## FattyDaddy (Nov 17, 2020)

The top tube slants up so the standover is roughly 24" to 26" for the Woom Off Air 5.


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## J-RAD (May 4, 2004)

aski said:


> If there is anyone that currently has the Woom 5 Off Air (and the time to check), could you please post the standover height? The Woom site lists the minimum saddle height, but not standover. I have searched everywhere and cannot find this measurement anywhere. Thanks in advance.


24.5 Inches at the bend.


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## ncwxpanther (Nov 25, 2020)

Knowing the bike shortage and possible shipping delays, I pre-ordered two 24" bikes for my 7 year old. I have received one of them so far - the Nukeproof Cub-scout. It has an RST Air shock with 100mm of travel. The bike weight is listed at around 27 pounds. 

The second bike is due to be shipped in mid-December and its the Woom OFF air 5. If I do end up with two bikes, Ill need to sell one. 

Does the weight of the Woom alone make it stand out from the Nukeproof? Are there any other reasons to keep one or the other?


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## AuroraB (Nov 5, 2020)

ncwxpanther said:


> Knowing the bike shortage and possible shipping delays, I pre-ordered two 24" bikes for my 7 year old. I have received one of them so far - the Nukeproof Cub-scout. It has an RST Air shock with 100mm of travel. The bike weight is listed at around 27 pounds.
> 
> The second bike is due to be shipped in mid-December and its the Woom OFF air 5. If I do end up with two bikes, Ill need to sell one.
> 
> Does the weight of the Woom alone make it stand out from the Nukeproof? Are there any other reasons to keep one or the other?


I don't have any suggestions - but any chance you are in the SF Bay Area when you sell one of those?


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## ncwxpanther (Nov 25, 2020)

AuroraB said:


> I don't have any suggestions - but any chance you are in the SF Bay Area when you sell one of those?


Sorry. Opposite coast. Asheville NC area.


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## AuroraB (Nov 5, 2020)

ncwxpanther said:


> Sorry. Opposite coast. Asheville NC area.


Had to ask!

Which are you leaning towards at this point? If you keep the Nukeproof Cub Scout I will pay the shipping and a handling fee on the woom off air 5 if you want to ship it this way


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## charlesrg (Oct 17, 2011)

oren_hershco said:


> I bought the Woom Off 5 (with carbon fork)
> 
> I compared it to DIY bike, base on a carbon frameset from Aliexpress, and wheels from Spawn Cycles. The result would have been more expensive than buying the Woom (I'm from Israel, so shipping rates can change this calculation a lot if you're in the continental US)
> 
> ...


What frameset did you see on aliexpress ? That got me curious, maybe I can shave weight out of the woom.

Just got a woom 4 off air and kid love it. We really had an amazing ride today, kid was able to climb much more than with the woom 3 despite the woom 3 being much lighter.

3 things I would love to improve:
Frontend weight
Dropper.


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## ncwxpanther (Nov 25, 2020)

I’m selling the Nukeproof Cub Scout. If anyone is interested PM me.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

charlesrg said:


> What frameset did you see on aliexpress ? That got me curious, maybe I can shave weight out of the woom.
> 
> Just got a woom 4 off air and kid love it. We really had an amazing ride today, kid was able to climb much more than with the woom 3 despite the woom 3 being much lighter.
> 
> ...


Nice! I'm on the "notify" list for both the Off 4 and the Off 4 Air. With your thoughts on the front end weight, would you imagine that avoiding the front suspension would be a good idea if the kid is fairly small/light? I imagine we'll want it eventually if this is a couple of year bike, but it seems it's available separately for only $70 more than getting it with the bike, so I could have him use the regular carbon fork for the first year.


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## BikingDad (Jan 11, 2021)

I got the air 4 & 5. My light son sees a good bit of travel on the air4 but I'll be honest I think just running the tires pretty low pressure will get you most of the way there. Both kids love those bikes so you can't go wrong with or without air.



MarcusBrody said:


> Nice! I'm on the "notify" list for both the Off 4 and the Off 4 Air. With your thoughts on the front end weight, would you imagine that avoiding the front suspension would be a good idea if the kid is fairly small/light? I imagine we'll want it eventually if this is a couple of year bike, but it seems it's available separately for only $70 more than getting it with the bike, so I could have him use the regular carbon fork for the first year.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

They both came back into stock last week and I opted for the rigid fork. For what my son is riding now, I decided that the lighter weight (and cheaper price) trumped the benefit of front suspension. In another 6 months/year, if he's gotten stronger and is riding rougher trails, I'll consider the suspension fork as an add on. But right now he's only 37-38 lbs, so 2.5 lbs is a good bit more than it would be to me and 2/3 of his biking is to the park/library, rather than trails.


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## todd_fuller (Feb 5, 2019)

Just got our Woom Off Air 4. Bike is good. My 6yo is ~40lbs and he handles it just fine. Waiting for trails to dry up to test out the off roading.

From the component perspective for anyone interested, it's pretty well spec'd. I expected to find heavy rotors, heavy tubes, etc. Not the case, Front 160mm rotor + bolts is 104g. Not much more than an Ashima Ai2 rotor. Tubes are Shwalbe lightweight's, 139g. 

I also debated the fork situation as well. Here in Austin, we have a lot of rocky trails, so I presume the fork will help him have more enjoyable rides. Not sure I've seen this on the thread, but the fork is a rebadged (maybe revalved? no way to tell) RST Spex 90 w/ the 15mm thru axle. These seem to be ~$200 retail.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Thanks for the report! I live in Southern NV, so tons of rocky trails too, but lots of his rides are either on smooth trails or not on trails at all, so it was more of a tossup. That's helpful knowing what the fork is. I saw that they have it through Woom, so if he gets to the point where the rigid fork seems to be holding him back, I'll get the suspension fork and see how it is.


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## todd_fuller (Feb 5, 2019)

I forgot to mention that I removed the crank arm to see how the chainring was attached. First, it's your standard square BB. Second, the chainring pressed on, so boo, not serviceable. The ring + the bash guard are aluminum and very light. Surprisingly light actually. Not many places to lose weight on this thing.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

My Off 4 arrived last night. I'm really impressed with it so far. My 4.5 yo son is just at the bottom of its size range and is coming from a Prevelo Zulu One (14 in wheels) where he could stand over the seat flatfooted with several inches of clearance. After about 2 minor messups trying to get on it like he did his smaller bike, he quickly mastered learning it over a bit as he got on and off and had no issues riding it at all. I think a lot of that ease is due to the Off 4s low weight. It's only a couple of pounds heavier than his last bike despite being physically much larger. The hubs also seemed fast in comparison to his smaller wheels.

The only issue that's appeared so far for him is that his hands don't seem big enough to complete the throw of the shifter to downshift. It seems to be a standard adult shifter and he can't quite get to the click. He can click the upshift as it's much shorter, but can't really reach it while holding onto the bars. I've moved the shifter position a bit back to see if he can do it next time we ride, but it might be something that is tough until he grows a bit. Which is fine. I assumed that I'd just be shifting for him at the bottom/top of hills for a while (even if just for cognitive multitasking reasons). 

He LOVES having gears though. I think part of it is mental, but the combination of gears, bigger wheels, and better seated position for pedaling seemed to really help him keep up at a good clip on our shakedown ride yesterday. The Prevelo was a great bike, but he was getting pretty big for it and while I think that gearing was well chosen for a single speeder likely to be a first pedal bike, it was obviously always going to be a compromise given that kids his age just can't generate that much power.


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## ryanbx86 (Aug 4, 2011)

My 6 year old 47" tall Daughter's Off 4 Air also just arrived. She's thrilled with it and the sticker kit was a big hit. We also used some pink sdg slater junior pedals to add a dash of color. Her previous bike was a 16" woom 3 which we used with a trailgator tow bar to tackle a surprising amount of single track and forest roads. We live in the mountains and the plan to ride a bunch more this season using a towhee strap for help on road climbs.

It seems really well put together and the weight achieved for the cost is impressive. A lot of this is down to the fact that, like the race build of the trail craft they used 20 spoke wheels and 2.25 Rocket Ron tires which seem the perfect choice for the bike. The front and rear through axles are also really nice as even more expensive kids bikes tend to use qrs. I'm a competent wheel builder and considered doing a ground up build but even sourcing parts to put together light wheels like this seemed like it would eat up a large part of the cost of the woom.

It uses old or odd standards in a few places to cut weight while keeping cost down. This makes a lot of sense since a kid doesn't need the stiffness of a modern adult bike but it is slightly annoying if your want to modify it using parts from your parts bin.

The drivetrain functions well with no adjustment. The pressed on chainring has already been noted but combined with the 11-32 cassette and 110mm crank arms the bike seems a little lacking in low range both for sustained climbs and for leverage getting over small obstacles. 110mm is also on the short end for cranks on 20" bikes. This is great for rock strikes but my daughter is pretty good at avoiding those from the time on the woom 3 and lots of "okay now keep the pedals plat and surf the bike for this part". I think she would be happier with longer cranks that let her keep the seat lower and still have a good pedaling position and provide a bit more leverage for powering the bike over things.

Woom will sell you an 11-40 sun race cassette but it weights 500g meanings its is probably a csm980. Sunrace also make a csm990 at 425g but that is still quite heavy. I'm also considering swapping the cranks for direct mount 120mm prevello heirs and going with a 26t front and a 341g CSMX0 11-36 rear and piecing together a zee/deore 10 speed drivetrain. (Trailcraft 127mm cranks would be perfect and lighter but it seems like they are not selling them this year).

The fork also uses a 1" steerer and a flip flop stem installed with the steerer cut quite short and no spacers to adjust height. I'm sure this is plenty stiff for a kid but a standard steerer and spacers would allow a lot more adjustability given my existing collection of stems. I've ordered a shim to try with a 35mm stem i have as that seems like it would be about right but with the short steerer there will only be so many options.

The promax brakes work great but the levers feel a bit cheap and the reach adjust mechanism in particular uses a tiny hard to turn allen screw that I was very worried about stripping. They claim the levers are designed for children hands but it seems like modern one finger shimano lever would work just as well. I'm going to see how these work for a while and then may buy myself a pair of dual pots and transfer my old shimano xt brakes over.

The rst fork seems nice for the cost though rebound is a bit slow at low pressure and there is no o ring on the fork to gauge travel use. It came with a chintzy qr axle but measuring it seems like a rockshox 15mm road maxle (125mm instead of the longer mountain axle) might fit.

The Schrader valves are silly. Planning on trying to go tubeless with cafelatex presta valves that fit schrader holes. Lack of a seatpost qr is also silly but i had a nice chromag qr in my toolbox that fit...since we wont be adding a dropper having a qr that isn't frustrating to use seems key.

This is seeming overly critical but I'm actually really happy with the purchase and even with mods it will still come in cheaper then a spawn or trailcraft at a great weight and I'm sure my daughter will get a couple years use out of it and her sister a couple more.

That said I think we will likely look for something more standards compliant for 24/26" bikes or do custom builds reusing upgraded parts.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

ryanbx86 said:


> My 6 year old 47" tall Daughter's Off 4 Air also just arrived. She's thrilled with it and the sticker kit was a big hit. We also used some pink sdg slater junior pedals to add a dash of color. Her previous bike was a 16" woom 3 which we used with a trailgator tow bar to tackle a surprising amount of single track and forest roads. We live in the mountains and the plan to ride a bunch more this season using a towhee strap for help on road climbs.
> 
> It seems really well put together and the weight achieved for the cost is impressive. A lot of this is down to the fact that, like the race build of the trail craft they used 20 spoke wheels and 2.25 Rocket Ron tires which seem the perfect choice for the bike. The front and rear through axles are also really nice as even more expensive kids bikes tend to use qrs. I'm a competent wheel builder and considered doing a ground up build but even sourcing parts to put together light wheels like this seemed like it would eat up a large part of the cost of the woom.
> 
> ...


I actually was happy to get the schrader valves. It looks like it's easier with 20 in tires, but with my son's Prevelo Zulu One, I could only find 14in presta tubes via Prevelo. We live in the land of puncture vine, so I went through more than one would expect. I eventually drilled his rims for schrader valves so we could get them locally. Also my wife is inexplicably bad with presta valves. I likely will try to set the wheels up tubeless at some point though given all our pokey plants, so that will be back to prestas.

I was also curious about the gearing, but so far it seems pretty spot on. We've ridden things that we previously needed to use a tow strap for and he's been fine. Maybe lower gearing would be nice for extended/steep grades, but my son isn't up for too much of that and given how (not) fast he's moving in his current lowest gear, I'm not sure he has the balance to tackle obstacles in a lower gear.


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## greenkiwi (Aug 31, 2009)

Nick_A said:


> Is there anything else out there the compares to the price/quality of this one?


I wasn't able to get a Woom easily (or cost-effectively) here in New Zealand, so we went with the Marin San Quentin 24.








San Quentin 24


2021 San Quentin 24




www.marinbikes.com





I can't say enough good things about this bike. It's been pretty amazing to see how much control he has on it and how nice a package they put together. The 30T crank + 11-46 rear gets him up every hill he's tried and the hydraulic brakes, air fork and 2.6" tires work really well at giving him a lot of confidence out on the trails.

Also, I was looking at the San Quentin 20 for my daughter and can't really recommend it. It has such a high stand over that you can almost fit the 24 if you can fit it. So it might be good fro kids who are really looking to throw a bike around, but that seems extreme for a 20" and doesn't have much time on the bike due to the child needing to be really tall to get on it and then growing out of it pretty quickly.


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## high_desert_mud (Jul 22, 2017)

MarcusBrody said:


> My Off 4 arrived last night. I'm really impressed with it so far. My 4.5 yo son is just at the bottom of its size range


@MarcusBrody would you mind sharing his actual inseam + overall height? I think my 5yo is ready for this, and is rocking the 16" right now, but he's definitely on the very small end of the woom4 listed specs. Thanks!


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## high_desert_mud (Jul 22, 2017)

ryanbx86 said:


> Off 4 Air also just arrived [...] competent wheel builder [...] go tubeless


how is the rim profile / bead seat on these rims for (normal non-ghetto) tubeless? I'm not a wheelbuilder but i have plenty of experience converting wheels over the years especially some quite cranky fatties ... mind you the kids are light/slow so probably not likely to pop the bead ... but it still makes me nervous having them on tubeless w/ a poor bead-seat.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

high_desert_mud said:


> @MarcusBrody would you mind sharing his actual inseam + overall height? I think my 5yo is ready for this, and is rocking the 16" right now, but he's definitely on the very small end of the woom4 listed specs. Thanks!


I will try to remember to measure his actual inseam tonight. His height is ~44.5in, though he's hard to get to stand up straight. In any case, he's below Woom's recommended 46-51in range for the Off 4, but has little trouble riding it. The only issue at all is at very low speeds where he's had to get used to not being able to easily just put both feet down while on the seat. His friend who's even shorter than my son has also ridden it with no problems, though the friend is a pretty good (and fearless) little biker.


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## ryanbx86 (Aug 4, 2011)

high_desert_mud said:


> how is the rim profile / bead seat on these rims for (normal non-ghetto) tubeless? I'm not a wheelbuilder but i have plenty of experience converting wheels over the years especially some quite cranky fatties ... mind you the kids are light/slow so probably not likely to pop the bead ... but it still makes me nervous having them on tubeless w/ a poor bead-seat.


I haven't switched them to tubeless yet (we finally got some winter in Montana so have been playing with skis instead of bikes). But i let the air out of one tire to check the rim and it sure looks like a tubeless rim profile to me. It has a pronounced bead shelf on either side of the center channel and even has a bead hook ridge on the edge of the shelf (though those seem to be now viewed as unnecessary) . The tires took light thumb pressure to unseat so they aren't a crazy tight fit but inline with what I get with modern tubeless rims and tires on my bikes.

I'd guess whoever manufactured the rim sells the same profile as tubeless ready.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

high_desert_mud said:


> @MarcusBrody would you mind sharing his actual inseam + overall height? I think my 5yo is ready for this, and is rocking the 16" right now, but he's definitely on the very small end of the woom4 listed specs. Thanks!


I measured him tonight at 44in tall, 18.75in inseam.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

My sons been on the Off Air 6 since mid December, he's 8 and 4'6". He's a super avid rider and also shreds a BMX bike for the local street and dirt parks. The 4.5-5 foot height range really had me stumped, I didn't want to go to an adult bike or anything to heavy and stunt his passion.

I decided that a 26er really made the most sense to bridge the gap. Looking at options, so many bikes come up short either on weight or non kid specific parts. I didn't want to have to swap out a bunch of parts and I'm a firm believe that weight is the number one thing that will keep a kids passion going.

I narrowed it down to the Woom or a Trailcraft. The Woom negatives were higher stack height, standover and non-tubeless rims. When looking at it though it set up similarly to his Pello Reyes and I just couldn't get to the $1700 price point of the Trailcraft.

Three months later and I'm super happy with the bike. Been fun to get in the air and it climbs like an absolute goat! We're swapping out the grips and adding a chainstay protector, but other than that its stock. So far we're able to run fairly low pressure on the tubes so don't feel the need to go tubeless just yet (he's 78 lbs.) I'd venture to guess this is probably the case for most kids. An external dropper would be really fun, but with the higher standover there's really no room for until he gets a bit taller.

Hope this informations helpful! The Off Lineup is really a no brainer and a even with some minor gripes I don't think it can be beat for the price.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

double post deleted.


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## nwa bike dad (Apr 21, 2018)

We got a Pivot Mach 6 (27.5 xs) and it has exceeded every expectation. The bike was a bit spendy, but taking the advice on some of the locals, you can buy a new frame and swap out the frame and use so many of the parts out as he grows if we want to go that route. I have never regretted a decision on buying a quality bike!


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

nwa bike dad said:


> We got a Pivot Mach 6 (27.5 xs) and it has exceeded every expectation. The bike was a bit spendy, but taking the advice on some of the locals, you can buy a new frame and swap out the frame and use so many of the parts out as he grows if we want to go that route. I have never regretted a decision on buying a quality bike!


That's a sweet bike!

How tall is your child? We test rode several 27.5 XS bikes and they just felt too big. At 4'5" he could pedal them just fine but he couldn't handle them in a playful manner.


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## nwa bike dad (Apr 21, 2018)

gsteitz said:


> That's a sweet bike!
> 
> How tall is your child? We test rode several 27.5 XS bikes and they just felt too big. At 4'5" he could pedal them just fine but he couldn't handle them in a playful manner.


He has just turned 10 and is 4'8. He had a 24" Spawn YJ and we figured he could go back and forth until he got comfortable. He hasn't touched the 24" since. He took a small step back jumping, but everything else was a pretty significant jump up. He does have a DJ for jump parks and stuff. I was interested how the uphill tech stuff would be. I figured the larger tires and fs would help down. It's all been really good. With kids who are growing, there is a very small sweet spot for perfect size, but the bike isn't too big for him at all.

I thought the standover would be an issue at 4'8 but it isn't. The dropper, better gearing ratio, larger tires and fs are all pretty big upgrades whenever you make the move.


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

nwa bike dad said:


> He has just turned 10 and is 4'8. He had a 24" Spawn YJ and we figured he could go back and forth until he got comfortable. He hasn't touched the 24" since. He took a small step back jumping, but everything else was a pretty significant jump up. He does have a DJ for jump parks and stuff. I was interested how the uphill tech stuff would be. I figured the larger tires and fs would help down. It's all been really good. With kids who are growing, there is a very small sweet spot for perfect size, but the bike isn't too big for him at all.
> 
> I thought the standover would be an issue at 4'8 but it isn't. The dropper, better gearing ratio, larger tires and fs are all pretty big upgrades whenever you make the move.


Sounds awesome, really appreciate the background and hearing your experience!


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## Jefflinde (Mar 26, 2015)

How are the seat post and bras for weight on the Room bikes? Are they pretty light or is there room for improvement by going to carbon? Looking at this for my daughter and would like to make it a light as possible. she is tall but very petite so low bike weight is important.


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## MarcusBrody (Apr 1, 2014)

Jefflinde said:


> How are the seat post and bras for weight on the Room bikes? Are they pretty light or is there room for improvement by going to carbon? Looking at this for my daughter and would like to make it a light as possible. she is tall but very petite so low bike weight is important.


Really the Woom is setup to be extremely light. I'm sure that you could shave a few ounces off, but I have a heard time believing that it would be a noticeable difference. The much bigger difference is going with the rigid fork rather than the suspension fork if she doesn't need the suspension.


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## lvrpl (Mar 6, 2019)

Has anyone tried putting a dropper on? I feel so bad taking my son out when we hit steep stuff and I drop my post...


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

lvrpl said:


> Has anyone tried putting a dropper on? I feel so bad taking my son out when we hit steep stuff and I drop my post...


I think the easy way out is to put on a quick release collar to replace the stock one.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

Can any current owners measure the diameter of the frame to make sure i get the right quick release seat clamp? Is it 31.8mm? 
My kid's Off 5 should be incoming in the next few weeks...!


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## eatdrinkride (Jun 15, 2005)

...


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## Monkeymtb (Apr 15, 2021)

My daughter has an off 4 and we ordered a 31.8mm, it fit perfectly.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

What kind of BB is Woom running in the Off? My kid‘s regular Woom 5 seems to be a cartrige type, square taper axle. From what I can judge from the images, the Off is the same?


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## Monkeymtb (Apr 15, 2021)

mfacey said:


> What kind of BB is Woom running in the Off? My kid's regular Woom 5 seems to be a cartrige type, square taper axle. From what I can judge from the images, the Off is the same?


this is what woom told me via email (Needed to replace my daughter's woom off bottom bracket):

"Alternatively, you may be able to source a standard J.I.S. square taper bottom bracket locally if you would like to get a replacement sooner."


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## S1998 (Jun 3, 2021)

oren_hershco said:


> I bought the Woom Off 5 (with carbon fork)
> 
> I compared it to DIY bike, base on a carbon frameset from Aliexpress, and wheels from Spawn Cycles. The result would have been more expensive than buying the Woom (I'm from Israel, so shipping rates can change this calculation a lot if you're in the continental US)
> 
> ...


Hi - what dropper post did you buy that fit the Off Air 5?


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## Janingo (Jun 17, 2021)

Has anyone any experience of BMC Blast 24"? The specs looks decent and the weight is below 10kg.

BMC BLAST 24" Kids Bike - 2021 - orange

I cannot find any reviews of the bike.


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## todd_fuller (Feb 5, 2019)

Jefflinde said:


> How are the seat post and bras for weight on the Room bikes? Are they pretty light or is there room for improvement by going to carbon? Looking at this for my daughter and would like to make it a light as possible. she is tall but very petite so low bike weight is important.


To address this specifically, get some carbon bars. Seat post is weight weenie light already.
I did some weighing of components and they have a pretty good build. Bars, cassette, saddle are areas to improve. Seat post is 199g, saddle is 224g.
Unless you go Ti Bb, not much to get out of that. I'm keep my eye out for old XTR brakes.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

Janingo said:


> Has anyone any experience of BMC Blast 24"? The specs looks decent and the weight is below 10kg.
> 
> BMC BLAST 24" Kids Bike - 2021 - orange
> 
> I cannot find any reviews of the bike.


Looks pretty decent although specs are a little less than on the equivalent Woom 5. Actually, outside of the dedicated lightweight kids bikes manufacturer's its one of the better alternatives to Woom I've seen so far. And its available immediately!


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

Update: the woom Off 5 I ordered direct from Woom back in March finally got delivered this week. Can't believe it took 4 months! Apparently the forks, both rigid and air, were on back order.


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## gramr (Jun 15, 2021)

Early Rider and Commençal make some ridiculously nice kid's trail bikes, too - but they ain't exactly cheap. It seems like Woom's Off series is basically impossible to beat in terms of how good of a bike you get for the money.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

I haven’t checked the specs on those bikes but the problem is often that they still use a lot of adult size components like cranks that are too long or an adult dimension q-factor. Even high end adult suspension components aren’t built or tuned to kids needs. It just makes a lot of kids bikes XXS sized adult bikes. That’s fine if your in your teens but doesn’t work if you’re 8 or 9 years old.

I guess it’s just too small of a niche for most manufacturers to take seriously.


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## gramr (Jun 15, 2021)

@mfacey 
Check them out then, because every single point you mentioned and then some are considered in the design and specification of the Woom, Early Rider and Commençal bikes.

Crankarm length, bottom bracket width, brake lever reach, pedals, handlebar, grips, saddle, geometry, spring and damping rates are all proportionate to rider size in their smaller bikes. They're not cheap, but you do get what you pay for.


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

What @gramr said!

*Cranks*
Early Rider: 150mm (Narrow Q-Factor)
Commencal: 145mm (165.8mm Q-Factor)
Woom: 130mm (Narrow Q-Factor)

*Forks*
Early Rider: RST F1RST (Kid Specific Fork)
Commencal: Manitou Machete JUNIT Pro (Premium Kid Specific Fork)
Woom: Woom / RST F1RST? (Kid Specific Fork)

*Other*
Early Rider: SDG Fly Jr Saddle
Commencal: Pro Taper JUNIT Bars & Grips, SDG Fly Jr Saddle
Woom: Woom Kid Specific Bars, Grips, Brake Levers and Saddle


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## TimTucker (Nov 9, 2011)

gramr said:


> Crankarm length, bottom bracket width, brake lever reach, pedals, handlebar, grips, saddle, geometry, spring and damping rates are all proportionate to rider size in their smaller bikes. They're not cheap, but you do get what you pay for.


IMO, based on my own experiences dropping down from 175mm to 152mm cranks on my own bike, I'm still convinced that crankarm lengths are too long on pretty much all kids bikes.

Huge benefits to having better ground clearance and far more downsides to going "too long" than "too short"

The progression we've followed so far has been:

14 & 16": 89mm
20+: 102mm
24+: 120mm
Most kids bike companies are shipping anywhere from 140mm to 155mm for 24" bikes -- we're not likely to go up to 140mm until at they get to at least 26".


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

@TimTucker I've had similar observations, but haven't made the drastic changes you have.

We changed out heavy stock cranks with non-swappable chaingrings on our 16" bike to a 102mm, and the 20" bike to a 127mm Spawn cranks. This has reduced weight and allowed us to swap chainrings as we desire. The 24" bike has 140mm aluminum cranks with a 32T 104bcd chainring. So far this has worked well for us. I could see going 5-10mm shorter on the 24" as being advantageous, but haven't really felt the need to make a change.

I've put together some pretty extensive comparison spreadsheets and found that the average crank length of a quality 20" bike is 135mm with the longest being 152mm. On the 24" side the average was 145mm with the longest being the same 152mm. I never even took anything with a crank length longer than 152mm into consideration.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

rton20s said:


> What @gramr said!
> 
> *Cranks*
> Early Rider: 150mm (Narrow Q-Factor)
> ...


OK good examples in this case!
I recently saw the announcement of a new chromag kids bike which is just not a kids bike: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/video...ll-suspension-kids-bike-the-minor-threat.html

Another example, the pricey YT Jeffsy Primus 24" which has 165mm cranks... YT Industries

I've looked at building my own kids hardtail but did notice distinct lack of options when it comes to cranks suitable for kids. Maybe its just an availabity thing?


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## rton20s (Aug 27, 2010)

mfacey said:


> I've looked at building my own kids hardtail but did notice distinct lack of options when it comes to cranks suitable for kids. Maybe its just an availabity thing?


Look to the brands that already have kid specific bikes. Some offer various components (cranks specifically) sized for kids (Trailcraft, Prevelo, Spawn, etc). Other will list what brand and model the cranks are and you can use that information to try to source your own. Finally, take a look at offerings from BMX brands. Cranks are actually one of the easier problems to tackle, if you know where to look. Just don't expect to find adult brands (Shimano, SRAM, Race Face, etc.) readily available in kid sizes.


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

Assembled my son's Off 5 yesterday evening and there is a distinct wobble on rear disc. It touches the pads on the left and right alternately. I removed the disc to see if it was warped/bent but it seems perfectly flat. That leaves the hub not being 100% flat. I couldn't detect any visible dirt or other damage that would cause the wobble. I've emailed to Woom to see what they say. Anyone else face similar issues?

Luckily I could get it to wear it only lightly touches each pad so its definitely rideable without dragging too much, but too bad nonetheless...


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

Has anyone successfully converted the stock rims with the Schwalbe tires to tubeless? I’ve seen a video and article of someone stating that it was fairly straightforward but they used presta valves. I’m going to give it a shot in the coming days. I don’t have a compressor only a pump with a booster. Served me well on all my other tubeless setups so let’s see what happens!


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## mfacey (Dec 16, 2018)

Decided to go for a test of tubeless on the front first. So far so good. Removed the rim liner and used gorilla tape around 26mm wide to tape up the rim bed. Went around once, overlapping the valve hole to double up. Getting the tire bead to seat required the use of my booster. Second shot got it to seat nicely. No pops like i get on my 29 rims.

I'm using muc off sealant and I've spotted a little bit of sealant coming though where the rim was welded together. See pic. Going to leave it overnight to see how well it holds.









I'm using el cheapo Ali-express tubeless schrader valves which are ok. I don't like the tapered shape of the rubber seal that sits inside the rim. Doubles up too easily. Looks like there's a tiny amount of sealant seeping through. Might get some Stan's to see if they work better.

One week update:
Tire isn't holding pressure great. To be fair it hasn't been ridden besides a few mins up and down the street so perhaps the sealant hasn't distributed great. I'll do a leak test with some soapy water to see where its coming from. Wouldn't surprise me if its the valves....

a few weeks later update:
Yeah the valves suck. I tightened down the cheap valve further but struggled to keep the tires inflated. Installed Stan's valves which have a noticeably more solid rubber seal to connect to the inside of the rim. Rear tire also needed the booster to seat after some persuasion. The rear rim also was seeping some sealant around the weld. That sealed up quickly though. Good to go!


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