# 26in chinese carbon all mountain rim



## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

I really enjoy the 29er chinese carbon rim thread but l didnt see anything for all mountain chinese wheels or rims. I'm looking for some 26in carbon all mountain rims that need to be wide, pretty light and strong to go on my Tracer2. Going through all the Asian carbon stores is big undertaking. That, and l dont fully understand everything about wheels. Are all the rims pretty much for xc if not can someone point me in the right direction


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Well the company that everybody is buying the wheels from in the 29er thread also makes 26er carbon rims as well.

26er MTB carbon MTB rim clincher - light-bicycle

That is the regular 24mm wide 26er. They are also in the process of producing a wider 26er that will come in at 30mm wide (external), 23mm wide (internal), and 23mm depth...which is wider than the ZTR Flow. Not sure on the weight of the wider rim since I'm still waiting for a reply from Nancy.


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

Do you know what the internal width is on those rims? Price and weight looks reasonable. Found the 29er rim thread. Has others used the 26er version?

http://forums.mtbr.com/29er-bikes/cheap-chinese-carbon-rims-673410.html


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

they will be ready around the end of the month, this is the profile of the similar 29er rims...id imagine the 26" will be identical


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

I see there's no inner ridge to keep the bead in place.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Here is what Nancy sent me for the wider 26er...she also mentioned that the weight will be right around 370-380g.


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

Suitable for DH?


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

JoshS said:


> Suitable for DH?


Impossible to tell, as these are not in production yet. However given that a Mavic 823 weighs over 600g, it's a bit hard to imagine that a sub 400 carbon rim is intended to compete in that usage category.

Check the 20 page thread in the 29er section for some short term ride reports.


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

Yeah, I have been, I actually want to build up a set of normal 29er rims for my 29ers 

But currently I am planning to build a set of DH rims with Stans Flow or DT swiss 500, so I wonder if these would work. The real question is what would happen if you hit something hard enough that would normally dent a aluminum rim.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, pound for pound, properly laid up carbon will be stronger than aluminum in pretty much all aspects, too many variables here to know though if these will adhere to that, i dont think id risk it on DH as the risk far outweighs the reward...light-bikes can build the rims up beefier for heavier riders upon request, so that might be an option if you are brave
enve has a DH rim coming out soon that has been quite durable in testing, much moreso than aluminum DH rims and weighs in around 475g...they will assuredly be better than these chinese rims, at a major cost penalty
Enve DH


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## Cable0guy (Jun 19, 2007)

I have seen Enve rims fail. One rim that a pro DH rider was using broke, with the bead hook chipped off. An AL rim would have bent at that spot. Granted, this was at Bootleg, so not too many rims last there.

Enve DH's are $1000 per rim. It's a joke.

For DH, if you are going to use light rims, you are better off using something cheaper like Flow and replacing it every season or more.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

read the article i linked about the testing they did, may be one you were talking aobut:

During the 2010 season, the Syndicate’s first on the carbon rims, they replaced 53 wheels, which was down from a reported 180 wheels per season when the team was on alloy. In 2011, the team had to replace just 11 wheels. 

Of last season’s 11 broken wheels, not one lost air pressure or warranted their rider to slow before the finish line. “They were cracking hook beads,” said Schiers of the failures


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Article on Enve DH rims (including weights) are here: ENVE Launch DH Rims And Wheels - BikeRadar

So will a sub 400g rim be suitable for DH? Especially when the manufacturer has stated a rider weight limit? The answer should be self evident.


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## JoshS (Jan 7, 2004)

Yeah ENVE, is a little too pricey for me. I love high end stuff, but when cost is 1000% ($600 vs. $60) greater then a comparable aluminum rim that weighs about the same, I think there is a better way to go.

But like it has been said, if the carbon fails it's one of 2 ways, it's a crack and it's not a huge deal, or it is a fracture, and all hell breaks loose in your world at that moment.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

anthonylokrn said:


> Here is what Nancy sent me for the wider 26er...she also mentioned that the weight will be right around 370-380g.


That profile doesn't look like it'll be tubeless compatible at all. The profile looks exactly like their current narrow 26 rim profile and the current rim is not tubeless compatible according to Nancy when I inquired about them.
I hope they make the profile like the wider 29er rim.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Per Nancy just a few minutes ago:

"Hello sir,

It is tubeless compatible,but we are doing the strength testing & also the outlook checking. To make them perfect.

Thanks,
Nancy"


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, if thats the case, the rim profile she sent you is incorrect...


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

clewttu said:


> well, if thats the case, the rim profile she sent you is incorrect...


Agreed,
I have the popcorn and wine in hand watching this thread. If I could get a sub 400g 23mm wide (internal) rim for my new Lefty build I'd be thrilled. I'd even go as high as $200 for it.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Looks like March 5th is the ETA for the wider 26er. Nancy is checking back with the engineer to get me an up-to-date cross-section.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

What's the profile of their XC rim? At 330gr, it could make a killer rear wheel.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

you can send them an email to get the exact one
here is the 29er XC rim from the other thread


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Eagerly awaiting when someone gets an updated cross section profile of the new wider version.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

pwu_1 said:


> That profile doesn't look like it'll be tubeless compatible at all.





clewttu said:


> well, if thats the case [it's tubeless compatible], the rim profile she sent you is incorrect...


Can you explain or draw what the profile needs to be or how it needs to change for tubeless and why that is? Thanks!


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## ne_dan (Mar 19, 2007)

Would something like the Bontrager rim strip work, granted it would add weight but, doesn't it have a beadlock on the rimstrip.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

litany said:


> Can you explain or draw what the profile needs to be or how it needs to change for tubeless and why that is? Thanks!


See the flat ramps on the sides? Holds the bead in place so it can seal.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

ETA has been delayed until March 10th. =(


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

ne_dan said:


> Would something like the Bontrager rim strip work, granted it would add weight but, doesn't it have a beadlock on the rimstrip.


yes (they will work on most rims/tires), on the 29er forum, stans yellow tape seems to work as well


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

thuren said:


> See the flat ramps on the sides? Holds the bead in place so it can seal.


Let me see if I understand you.










So what you are saying is the red shelf is where the bead of the tire sits when deflated, with the bead approximately located where the blue dots are, you then inflate the tire and the bead slides up the sides of the rim and hooks under the lip there where the green dots are?

If this is the case why won't these Chinese rims work? It would seem that it might be harder to get a tire mounted but not impossible with a compressor and some soap right?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

not quite, look at the bottom left here to see the interface


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

clewttu said:


> not quite, look at the bottom left here to see the interface


I see, interesting. So for it to be UST or UST compatible it has to have those ramps and that shape for the bead? What if it's not UST but "tubeless compatible" like the enve rims?

Thanks!


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

About 4 weeks ago Nancy gave me theses responses:

target weight : 350gr +- 5gr
erd: 536mm or same as Flows 26


I plan to get a pair too.


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## Wveddy (Dec 26, 2011)

trek551 said:


> About 4 weeks ago Nancy gave me theses responses:
> 
> target weight : 350gr +- 5gr
> erd:  536mm or same as Flows 26
> ...


She told me 380 +\- 10. I hope you are right.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

I guess specs are kind of all over the place for now.

This is what she told me yesterday.

"The ERD will be at 537mm to 539mm, i still haven't got the finianl one from our engineer leader, they will inform us once the rims are ready to sell."


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I sure hope the rim profile comes out with the UST platforms/ramps built in. They are going to miss out on a lot of sales if they look like the earlier picture shown.


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

Subscribing. Interested in the wide all mountain. In the 29er thread on the same topic, a guy was considering ordering a rim without the outer holes drilled to & use a magnet to pull nipples (with a steel threaded shaft fitted) through from the valve hole. This would make a well sealed tubeless rim.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Per Nancy:

"The rims are ready, the engineers are preparing the pictures and datas for this rim, then our website administrator will upload the pictures on our website.

Thanks for your follow up. It can be finished soon."

Excited to see what the end result came out to be.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Any news on the AM rim? Anybody tried the narrow rim yet?


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

AndreyI52 said:


> Subscribing. Interested in the wide all mountain. In the 29er thread on the same topic, a guy was considering ordering a rim without the outer holes drilled to & use a magnet to pull nipples (with a steel threaded shaft fitted) through from the valve hole. This would make a well sealed tubeless rim.


That's how Fulcrum (road wheels) does it on their 2 way fit road tubeless wheels.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Should be receiving pics of the AM rim tonight, per Nancy.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

she told me they'd be on sale friday, as they are testing them now...but weve been hearing that for a while


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

thuren said:


> I sure hope the rim profile comes out with the UST platforms/ramps built in. They are going to miss out on a lot of sales if they look like the earlier picture shown.


Stan's rims don't seem to miss out on too many sales.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

gvs_nz said:


> Stan's rims don't seem to miss out on too many sales.


They do pretty well, but I won't buy them for that reason. When you buy a Notubes rim you expect to use std tires with sealant.

I want a rim that I can mount UST or tubeless ready on without issue. The Notubes rims don't do nearly as well with ust tire beads


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

*Here are the pics*

for the wide rim in 3k (matte and glossy)


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

^
That looks promising for tubeless! 
Think I'm going to be in for a set of new wheels.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

They are up on the website


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

WOW nice can't wait to hear some reports!


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## DWill (Aug 24, 2010)

I wonder what the weight limit is on the wide 25ers; I read somewhere that the "normal" 26ers had a 190lb weight limit.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

the 29er wide rims had a rider weight of 95kg (210lb), but could be built up with extra carbon for heavier riders


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

I just ordered a set of these bad boys! 370 grams is sweet!


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

me too, ordered a seatpost to try out as well


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

clewttu said:


> me too, ordered a seatpost to try out as well


I'm so excited for these! I've been waiting for a few months to get them  I hope the quality of the first batch is good!

Your 29er versions are working out well for you, right?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

ha, kinda what i was thinking, but with the other 3 rims already in production, am thinking they should be fine
no clown wheels for me


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Ordered mine as well. Hoping to ride at least one (rear wheel) in a couple weeks.


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## One Pivot (Nov 20, 2009)

Anyone know what factory these are coming out of?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Are these designed to be tubeless ready?
The 29er specifically says tubeless ready and these don't.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

I'm considering one of these now. I have time as my Mavic 819 still has life in it. 

I was looking at the WTB Freq i23. This one maybe worth a shot.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mestapho said:


> Are these designed to be tubeless ready?
> The 29er specifically says tubeless ready and these don't.


yeah, they are, pretty much the same thing as the 29er version
guy with a 29er/wide rim had no problem with stans yellow tape, forget what tire


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

Thinking about buying the 30mm wide rims & converting to tubeless. I would like to modify the tire seating bead by applying some epoxy resin around the seating surface to create a UST style bead. The epoxy would be applied using a formed scraper & using the rim sidewalls a a guide for the scraper. The only thing I don't know is the composition of the resin/plastic used in the rims & whether the epoxy resin would in fact stick. Also, I do not know the dimensions of the UST bead system. A believe a regular clincher wheel has a tire seating diameter of 559mm. Does a UST rim have the same tire seating diameter? Also what is the height of the seating bead relative to the seating diameter? Can anyone help with these questions? My searches on the internet have been unsuccessful.

If it is possible, these modifications would allow a proper UST system. I would then use some cheap reinforced tape to cover spoke drilling holes. If a spoke breaks & I have to change spoke nipples, I can just peel off the tape, fix the spoke & reapply cheap reinforced tape.

I believe that the proposed system will be more convenient & lighter than applying a tubeless rim strip.


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## ne_dan (Mar 19, 2007)

AndreyI52 said:


> Thinking about buying the 30mm wide rims & converting to tubeless. I would like to modify the tire seating bead by applying some epoxy resin around the seating surface to create a UST style bead. The epoxy would be applied using a formed scraper & using the rim sidewalls a a guide for the scraper. The only thing I don't know is the composition of the resin/plastic used in the rims & whether the epoxy resin would in fact stick. Also, I do not know the dimensions of the UST bead system. A believe a regular clincher wheel has a tire seating diameter of 559mm. Does a UST rim have the same tire seating diameter? Also what is the height of the seating bead relative to the seating diameter? Can anyone help with these questions? My searches on the internet have been unsuccessful.
> 
> If it is possible, these modifications would allow a proper UST system. I would then use some cheap reinforced tape to cover spoke drilling holes. If a spoke breaks & I have to change spoke nipples, I can just peel off the tape, fix the spoke & reapply cheap reinforced tape.
> 
> I believe that the proposed system will be more convenient & lighter than applying a tubeless rim strip.


Why not just get a bontrager or Dt Swiss rim strip that has the beadlock built into the strip


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

AndreyI52 said:


> Thinking about buying the 30mm wide rims & converting to tubeless. I would like to modify the tire seating bead by applying some epoxy resin around the seating surface to create a UST style bead. The epoxy would be applied using a formed scraper & using the rim sidewalls a a guide for the scraper. The only thing I don't know is the composition of the resin/plastic used in the rims & whether the epoxy resin would in fact stick. Also, I do not know the dimensions of the UST bead system. A believe a regular clincher wheel has a tire seating diameter of 559mm. Does a UST rim have the same tire seating diameter? Also what is the height of the seating bead relative to the seating diameter? Can anyone help with these questions? My searches on the internet have been unsuccessful.
> 
> If it is possible, these modifications would allow a proper UST system. I would then use some cheap reinforced tape to cover spoke drilling holes. If a spoke breaks & I have to change spoke nipples, I can just peel off the tape, fix the spoke & reapply cheap reinforced tape.
> 
> I believe that the proposed system will be more convenient & lighter than applying a tubeless rim strip.


whoa, sounds like an unnecessary undertaking

there arent any answers to your questions yet cuz they just went on sale, so no one has them....you can check the 29er thread though as people have received and built those, or ask "Nancy" at the light-bicycle website


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

AndreyI52 said:


> Thinking about buying the 30mm wide rims & converting to tubeless. I would like to modify the tire seating bead by applying some epoxy resin around the seating surface to create a UST style bead. The epoxy would be applied using a formed scraper & using the rim sidewalls a a guide for the scraper. The only thing I don't know is the composition of the resin/plastic used in the rims & whether the epoxy resin would in fact stick. Also, I do not know the dimensions of the UST bead system. A believe a regular clincher wheel has a tire seating diameter of 559mm. Does a UST rim have the same tire seating diameter? Also what is the height of the seating bead relative to the seating diameter? Can anyone help with these questions? My searches on the internet have been unsuccessful.
> 
> If it is possible, these modifications would allow a proper UST system. I would then use some cheap reinforced tape to cover spoke drilling holes. If a spoke breaks & I have to change spoke nipples, I can just peel off the tape, fix the spoke & reapply cheap reinforced tape.
> 
> I believe that the proposed system will be more convenient & lighter than applying a tubeless rim strip.


Being very familiar with composites, I would say far away from doing that. The suggested Bontrager rim stip is I think a great idea I may go that direction also.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

The website states that the ERD for the rim is 536. This is the same as the Stans Flow rim. So if I currently have a set of Stan's Flows I should be able to just replace the Flow rim with the carbon rim without buying new spokes right?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> The website states that the ERD for the rim is 536. This is the same as the Stans Flow rim. So if I currently have a set of Stan's Flows I should be able to just replace the Flow rim with the carbon rim without buying new spokes right?


If the ERD is accurate then it should be a straight swap.


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

ne_dan said:


> Why not just get a bontrager or Dt Swiss rim strip that has the beadlock built into the strip


Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure if the strip is wide enough though, the maximum width on their website Bontrager: Tubeless Replacement Parts (Model #02566) is 21mm. The wide Chinese carbon wheels are 23mm.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

AndreyI52 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion. Not sure if the strip is wide enough though, the maximum width on their website Bontrager: Tubeless Replacement Parts (Model #02566) is 21mm. The wide Chinese carbon wheels are 23mm.


I have a pair of these rims coming and the bobtrager rythem strips.

I will report back. Although my end configuration may just try a layer of yellow tape


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

macming said:


> I have a pair of these rims coming and the bobtrager rythem strips.
> 
> I will report back. Although my end configuration may just try a layer of yellow tape


Thanks, looking forward to find out how you go.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

macming said:


> I have a pair of these rims coming and the bobtrager rythem strips.
> 
> I will report back. Although my end configuration may just try a layer of yellow tape


I plan on using the yellow tape first. If it doesn't work, I'll put a Stan rim strip instead.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Just ordered some of the wider rims. Will be lacing up some 32h Hope pro evos. Should be a strong 1500g wheel set. I'll post pictures when they show.

Plan is to set them up Ghetto Tubless.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

anyone gotten any production/shipping updates?
i was told it was gonna take my order about 2 weeks due to ordering a matte seatpost as well and all they had was glossy, but nothing was mentioned as far as rims


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## FirstAscent (Mar 24, 2012)

excited for everyone's updates after you've had some miles on them with different types of abuse.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

clewttu said:


> anyone gotten any production/shipping updates?
> i was told it was gonna take my order about 2 weeks due to ordering a matte seatpost as well and all they had was glossy, but nothing was mentioned as far as rims


My rims were ordered and are supposedly on their way. No idea when they will get here. I'll certainly try to put up a report when they arrive.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Shipping should only take 4 business days to the USA.

I ordered a pair of 50mm carbon clinchers road rims from them but it's taking a bit of time.

Took them 10 business days to manufacture it and was told that it is ready for shipping today, but the shippers are on vacation/holiday until wednesday. =[


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

anthonylokrn said:


> Well the company that everybody is buying the wheels from in the 29er thread also makes 26er carbon rims as well.
> 
> 26er MTB carbon MTB rim clincher - light-bicycle
> 
> That is the regular 24mm wide 26er. They are also in the process of producing a wider 26er that will come in at 30mm wide (external), 23mm wide (internal), and 23mm depth...which is wider than the ZTR Flow. Not sure on the weight of the wider rim since I'm still waiting for a reply from Nancy.


This one is nice.. Im a noob so i just want to ask whats a "clincher rim" is? what is the difference between that and the regular mavics im seeing.


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## thepimpmessiah (Apr 12, 2006)

I've got a slighly bent front Flow rim and this could be a way to upgrade the replacement )

Looking forward to updates.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

I ordered two of these rims on the first day, and they are finally on their way! I even have my tracking number


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Same here.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I ordered about a week after release, so hopefully soon for me!

I'm hoping with the amount of rims they have pumped out for the 29er and such, they have fine tuned manufacturing, and we get some sweet rims. Crossing fingers as I plan to beat the crap out of these lol!


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

jhobert said:


> This one is nice.. Im a noob so i just want to ask whats a "clincher rim" is? what is the difference between that and the regular mavics im seeing.


A clincher rim is a standard MTb rim where it has a bead hook that hangs onto the tire. The other type of rim is called tubular and that requires you to glue the tire to the rim and is more common on road bikes.


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

litany said:


> A clincher rim is a standard MTb rim where it has a bead hook that hangs onto the tire. The other type of rim is called tubular and that requires you to glue the tire to the rim and is more common on road bikes.


Thanks for the info, atleast now i whats the difference.. :thumbsup:


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Anybody get theirs yet?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mine ship tomorrow, she said they had a problem and had to remake them, hopefully that means they have been stepping up their QC checks


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Rims released from customs in SF yesterday. Should arrive to my door today or tomorrow (guessing).


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

How are you guys getting tracking? Do they just email you when ready, or did you have to request it? I don't want to bug them, if tracking will be sent automatically.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Heh, I live in Hawaii. The rims had to get to SFO to clear customs and now they're on their way here to me. No doubt they will still have to pass through Honolulu and then end up here. Oh well. Eventually I will get them.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

thuren said:


> How are you guys getting tracking? Do they just email you when ready, or did you have to request it? I don't want to bug them, if tracking will be sent automatically.


I wouldn't hesitate to contact them and be on top of things. Nancy has to deal with hundreds of e-mails each day and could have easily forgotten.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Carbon wide rim vs Stan olympic rim.









Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Nice!

Hope the bead seats without a fuss.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

zorg said:


> Carbon wide rim vs Stan olympic rim.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looking good! First impressions on the quality/ finish of the rims? Are you going to measure the ERD yourself? If so please let us know what numbers you get. TIA


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I never had another carbon rim, so it's hard to compare. To my untrained eye, the quality looks decent. I won't measure it. I'll let the LBS deal with it.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

One question: I'm used to Notubes rim strips. These wide rims require the freeride rimstrip based on dimension. That rimstrip comes with a Shrader valve. Isn't it a much bigger diameter valve than the regular Presta? What rim strip do you guys plan on using?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

zorg said:


> One question: I'm used to Notubes rim strips. These wide rims require the freeride rimstrip based on dimension. That rimstrip comes with a Shrader valve. Isn't it a much bigger diameter valve than the regular Presta? What rim strip do you guys plan on using?


Use the 25mm wide Notubes rim tape that is for the Flows. Enve AM rims have a 24mm ID and they provide 30mm wide gorilla tape fyi.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Just came across this article from BikeRadar:
Swift Carbon: Inside A High-end Chinese Bike Factory - BikeRadar

Good read with lots of pictures on how a chinese bike factory operates.


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## daisycutter (Sep 18, 2005)

What do the differnt weave options mean?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

daisycutter said:


> What do the differnt weave options mean?


Storck® Bicycle USA | | Technology | Carbon Fiber

With Light-Bicycle, it's just a faux outlook. I believe they actually mold the rim with 3k weaves and cover it with whichever outlook you choose.

Enve actually molds with UD weave, which is supposedly stronger.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

These are UD internally, not 3k


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Shot off an email requesting an update(my contact is Brian), and received a response in about an hour, that I should have tracking in a few days. Great correspondence so far!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

thuren said:


> Shot off an email requesting an update(my contact is Brian), and received a response in about an hour, that I should have tracking in a few days. Great correspondence so far!


Nice. When did you place your order?

I'm going to place my order later this week for these...but I did order a pair of 50mm clinchers from Nancy on 3/19 and it just shipped on 4/7. Looks like they are quite busy right now so expect some delays.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

zorg said:


> One question: I'm used to Notubes rim strips. These wide rims require the freeride rimstrip based on dimension. That rimstrip comes with a Shrader valve. Isn't it a much bigger diameter valve than the regular Presta? What rim strip do you guys plan on using?


Rims look great! Mine just got released from customs today, so you're lucky you got yours first 

Don't bother running rim strips. Just get a strip of Stan's yellow tape and mount the tire. These rims supposingly have a UST profile, and your pictures show that.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

anyone got a real weight of these rims? put the rims on a scale?


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

*They have arrived...........*

OK, so the shipment finally made it from China to SFO and then here to Hawaii.

Pic1 - The box as I received it. It was actually shipped Express from SFO to Hawaii.

Pic2 - The box was damaged. BIG hole. Luckily it was in the middle so first impression the rims weren't damaged.

Pic3 - Sticker that says the box showed up here at local postal "In Damaged Condition".

Pic4 - As I open the box, the rims are packaged together with no buffer between the two. I inspected them and there isn't any damage between the two.

Pic5 - The rims look OK. Hard to get a feel for how they are really "bigger" and beefier than I thought. I guess I've been around "narrow" light weight rims for so long.

Pic6 - Looking down the inner cavity. If anyone wants me to make measurements of this, let me know.

Pic7 - Outside dimension.

Pic8 - Inner wall dimension.

Pic9 - Rim height. I actually measured this through the spoke hole to a flat surface but there wasn't a good way to get this picture so I just put my caliper here to illustrate.

Pic10 - 378 grams. Almost 40 grams heavier than what the spec says. Good enough for me though, much lighter than the rims I am using now. (Oh, Check that. The website now says 370g +/-10g. That's about right).

Oh, and they charged me $130ea plus $50 shipping. Not the listed $140/piece.

Sorry for all the edits. I will make ERD measurement later (don't have time right now) unless someone beats me to it.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

WOW those look great!


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Yeah, my first reaction was "dang, those rims are ginormous".


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

They look great indeed. Makes me wish I had ordered this outlook instead of UD matte. Maybe this final outer layer adds a couple of grams compared to UD.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

gmats said:


> Pic10 - 378 grams. Almost 40 grams heavier than what the spec says. Good enough for me though, much lighter than the rims I am using now. (Oh, Check that. The website now says 370g +/-10g. That's about right).
> 
> Oh, and they charged me $130ea plus $50 shipping. Not the listed $140/piece.


those look nice, good pics

actually, they are listed at 370g+/-10g, so i'd say thats pretty good...you are thinking of the narrow rims, which it sounds like you paid for


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

clewttu said:


> those look nice, good pics
> 
> actually, they are listed at 370g+/-10g, so i'd say thats pretty good...you are thinking of the narrow rims, which it sounds like you paid for


Yes, that's right. I certainly ordered via the "wide" "Buy It Now" and they charged me the $130/ea. And yes, I definitely received the Wide rims. Weight is pretty much on the mark.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Just placed my order for UD 32h rims only. Hopefully it'll be much faster than the road rims I ordered from them.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm really hoping my 3k's come looking like that last picture. Looks like they set up the UD base, then wrapped the whole thing in 3k, which would be a lot stronger, IMO.


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

Great pics, measurements, and weight. Thanks for the info! I am very tempted to order a set. gosh it is hard to take a risk on an all mountain set up. I'll be realy curious what you think of the build and such. Thanks for sharing!!!


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

What would be the benefit of going with the wide version of the rim versus the narrow? Anyone know what the minimum tire size is for the wide rim? 

Looking at these for XC and endurance races


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

How much lighter & narrower (internal width) are the lighter XC rims compared to these AM rims? I emailed Nancy a few days ago, no word. Makes it hard to decide which one I want


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

I've just had a UD matte come in at 374g. Mine has fairly obvious manufacturing marks, and one sections where someone has clearly just filed down excess material around the bead hook. Also, I suspect that the uniform surface of the UD just shows imperfections more clearly than the cross weave. Still, I am happy to experiment with it for what it cost.

I'll try get some photos up tomorrow.


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

PainkillerSPE said:


> What would be the benefit of going with the wide version of the rim versus the narrow? Anyone know what the minimum tire size is for the wide rim?
> 
> Looking at these for XC and endurance races


Pinkbike Tech Tuesday - Wider Rims Are Better and Why Tubeless Tires Burp Air
Tech Tuesday


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

toons101 said:


> Pinkbike Tech Tuesday - Wider Rims Are Better and Why Tubeless Tires Burp Air
> Tech Tuesday


So would a wide rim still be able to handle a 1.9 to 2.3 tires?

Has anyone tried out their road rims as well?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

rfxc said:


> How much lighter & narrower (internal width) are the lighter XC rims compared to these AM rims? I emailed Nancy a few days ago, no word. Makes it hard to decide which one I want


states on the website 370g +/-10 for the wide and 330 +/-10 for the narrow
page 1 of this thread has the internal widths of both
nancy has been getting back to me within a few hours for my last few emails, but chat is even better when they are at work


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## pmanfred (Nov 7, 2010)

It sounds like buyers are just starting to receive first shipments of the wider all mountain rims. Please post your experiences running tubeless. I am very interested in ordering a set but am waiting to hear of tubeless experiences. Thanks Much!


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

womble said:


> I've just had a UD matte come in at 374g. Mine has fairly obvious manufacturing marks, and one sections where someone has clearly just filed down excess material around the bead hook. Also, I suspect that the uniform surface of the UD just shows imperfections more clearly than the cross weave. Still, I am happy to experiment with it for what it cost.
> 
> I'll try get some photos up tomorrow.


I just got my rims today too! I got the UD version, and there are definitely marks where someone just cut and filed down the excess resin. The bond joints are very visible, and to advertise these rims to have a UST profile is pretty sketchy in my opinion.

On the outside, the finish look pretty good, and the rims feel really light. I'd say 370 - 380 grams is about right. I dropped them off at the LBS, so they should be built up soon.

The rim bed tapers away from the rim wall, therefore, I think these will burp pretty easily without support below.

What is everyone's plan for tubeless? Yellow tape or the Bontrager Rhythm strip?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

PainkillerSPE said:


> So would a wide rim still be able to handle a 1.9 to 2.3 tires?
> 
> Has anyone tried out their road rims as well?


I wouldn't run a 1.9" tire on a 23mm wide rim. I'd try to shoot for 2.2" at least 

This rim can probably handle up to 3" wide tire since it's internal width is identical to the Mavic 823.

This rim is WIDE. In comparision, the DT 5.1d is 21mm wide, and Mavic 819 is 19mm, and most XC rims are 17-20mm wide.


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## Doc D (Nov 16, 2006)

Any tubeless successes or failure that folks may have, please post them up. I am really on the fence about these rims, the tipping point is absolutely in the reviews about tubeless compatibility.

They say you can only have two...light, cheap, strong

I hope these are strong, they already have light and cheap. By strong I mean at least like a 550 gram aluminum rim.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

macming said:


> I just got my rims today too! I got the UD version, and there are definitely marks where someone just cut and filed down the excess resin. The bond joints are very visible, and to advertise these rims to have a UST profile is pretty sketchy in my opinion.
> 
> On the outside, the finish look pretty good, and the rims feel really light. I'd say 370 - 380 grams is about right. I dropped them off at the LBS, so they should be built up soon.
> 
> ...


You can easily see the filing and the bond joints on ENVE rims as well. I just hope these rims are as successful with tubeless like their 29er version.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

anthonylokrn said:


> You can easily see the filing and the bond joints on ENVE rims as well. I just hope these rims are as successful with tubeless like their 29er version.


This is different. I have a few sets of carbon road wheelsets, and they are finished MUCH nicer.

For the $$, I have no complaints. Just wanted to mentioned the "imperfections" I see.

What do you think about the UST groove? I'd feel pretty nervous with the rim beds that tapers away.


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## ACHTUNG! (Aug 18, 2008)

Hmmmm...these are tempting,


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Man, those are freakn sweet yo.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

29er forum guys are having good results with yellow tape and the same rim profile, fwiw


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## rfxc (Oct 18, 2004)

Doc D said:


> Any tubeless successes or failure that folks may have, please post them up. I am really on the fence about these rims, the tipping point is absolutely in the reviews about tubeless compatibility.
> 
> They say you can only have two...light, cheap, strong
> 
> I hope these are strong, they already have light and cheap. By strong I mean at least like a 550 gram aluminum rim.


Totally agree. Tubeless function, propensity to burp or not, will make or break these rims in my book

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I ordered some Flow rimstrips. I'll take the weight penalty to ensure a tighter seal over the yellow tape.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

clewttu said:


> 29er forum guys are having good results with yellow tape and the same rim profile, fwiw


There have been numerous failures on the 29er rims with only yellow tape though. I'll think about this for the next few days, and decide which way to go. Again, for the money, these rims can't be beat


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

macming said:


> There have been numerous failures on the 29er rims with only yellow tape though. I'll think about this for the next few days, and decide which way to go. Again, for the money, these rims can't be beat


well, 3 out of 5 people had good results with tape, the other 2 had some burps
def a safer bet with strips from bonti or stans, but i have a roll of tape around here somewhere so im going that route first, especially since these have a ust bead (or an attempt at making one :thumbsup and if i have issues ill buy some strips


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

clewttu said:


> well, 3 out of 5 people had good results with tape, the other 2 had some burps
> def a safer bet with strips from bonti or stans, but i have a roll of tape around here somewhere so im going that route first, especially since these have a ust bead (or an attempt at making one :thumbsup and if i have issues ill buy some strips


I have the other problem. I have Bonti strips but no yellow tape 

I think I'll see how tight the Bonti strips fit, and decide if I want to apply tape. On my current DT 5.1Ds, I've gotten away with just yellow tape, but the rim profile does not taper off to the center as aggressively.

When will your wheels be ready? Mine's at the shop and I'm hoping to report back by next week.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

they were supposed to ship yesterday or today last i checked with nancy, so hopefully ill have the rims next week, then measure and order some spokes, and start building....2 weeks is prob the soonest ill be on them, but thats being optimistic probably
started out as a project i was kind of gonna do on the side and not pay much mind to how long it took, but now the anticipation is starting to get to me


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

My road rims from Nancy are taking forever to reach the USA via EMS.

Date/Time Location Activity

2012-04-07 19:30:30 XIAMEN Arrival at Sorting Center

2012-04-07 20:28:21 XIAMEN Despatch from Sorting Center


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

clewttu said:


> they were supposed to ship yesterday or today last i checked with nancy, so hopefully ill have the rims next week, then measure and order some spokes, and start building....2 weeks is prob the soonest ill be on them, but thats being optimistic probably
> started out as a project i was kind of gonna do on the side and not pay much mind to how long it took, but now the anticipation is starting to get to me


Keep me posted on your build  I think carbon fiber rims has a special way to get people excited.



anthonylokrn said:


> My road rims from Nancy are taking forever to reach the USA via EMS.
> 
> Date/Time Location Activity
> 
> ...


Mine took 10 days to get to Canada. Add in Easter and the customs slows way down.


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## Wveddy (Dec 26, 2011)

PainkillerSPE said:


> What would be the benefit of going with the wide version of the rim versus the narrow? Anyone know what the minimum tire size is for the wide rim?
> 
> Looking at these for XC and endurance races


I have been wondering the same thing. I never run bigger than a 2.2 anyway. Do you think the narrower rins with rim strips would work for tubeless? I have put rim strips on other non tubelesss rims and it worked fine. 40g lighter x2.


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## mykel (Jul 31, 2006)

regarding the Wide 26" AM rim...

Just came across this discussion.
I had e-mailed Nancy regarding weight limits and downhill / freeride capability.

She said that in their current form they have a weight limit of 100 - 110 kg.
As well, she said that for heavy DH riding they can "beef" up the rim and it would be about 430 grams.

michael


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

I've got the 26" wide rims on order and was speaking to Brian this morning.

"And we are sorry to inform you that the process of manufacturing 26er rims is a little knotty recently and being updated these days, to make them as good as 29er rim ,to assure quality. The mold is being updated a little bit these days. And we can start to make more rims since next week. Quite a few customers have placed the order of 26er wider rims and they have waited for a long time.

So if it is not so urgent, could you wait for 10-12 working days to get your rims?"

Looks like a delay :-(

I also asked about the heavier rims; they're 400/410g, the 430g is the heavy 29'er rim.

I've gone for the heavier rim for the extra strength


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

toons101 said:


> I've got the 26" wide rims on order and was speaking to Brian this morning.
> 
> "And we are sorry to inform you that the process of manufacturing 26er rims is a little knotty recently and being updated these days, to make them as good as 29er rim ,to assure quality. The mold is being updated a little bit these days. And we can start to make more rims since next week. Quite a few customers have placed the order of 26er wider rims and they have waited for a long time.
> 
> ...


When did you order?


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

Last week


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Real quick, I finally got around to measuring the two rims I received. The ERD cam in at 537 mm. So it's pretty darn close to the advertised 536 mm spec.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I ordered 3 weeks ago now. Requested delivery status/tracking a week ago, and was told about 2 more days. Requested it again last night, thinking they may have forgot to send tracking, so I can keep an eye for the postal guy. Now received the same "copy pasted" email from above, about the knotty process and would it be ok to ship in 10 more days?

Not very confidence inspiring at this point.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

thuren said:


> I ordered 3 weeks ago now. Requested delivery status/tracking a week ago, and was told about 2 more days. Requested it again last night, thinking they may have forgot to send tracking, so I can keep an eye for the postal guy. Now received the same "copy pasted" email from above, about the knotty process and would it be ok to ship in 10 more days?
> 
> Not very confidence inspiring at this point.


Aloha,

Hang in there, I think it's worth it. The price is right and the rims look awesome. Size, weight, measurements all look good.

I just ordered spokes yesterday, hoping to get them by the end of the week (tough to get stuff out here in Hawaii sometimes) and maybe build up next week some time and "maybe" get on bike next-next week. Phew, time flies.

I came up with 260/258mm for rear Chris King ISO hub if anyone is interested. Will report back after I build.

Hope that bit of information helps.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks got a nice email back from Brian. I'm holding tight. 

Got my spokes, new tires, nipples, Hope Pro 2's, and ready to rock as soon as they show!


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## Call_me_Tom (May 26, 2008)

Anyone have any pics of these built up yet?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

What is the ERD for those have their rims already? Mu mechanic said mine measured to 529mm and that seems way too small. I thought they were supposed to be around 536.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

macming said:


> What is the ERD for those have their rims already? Mu mechanic said mine measured to 529mm and that seems way too small. I thought they were supposed to be around 536.


I measured two of the rims I got and they came in right at 537 mm. Look at my post above. I've also ordered the spokes for my CK rear ISO hub at 258/260mm. Like I said above, I'll update when I get to the build.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

gmats said:


> I measured two of the rims I got and they came in right at 537 mm. Look at my post above. I've also ordered the spokes for my CK rear ISO hub at 258/260mm. Like I said above, I'll update when I get to the build.


Perfect, I thought it was supposed to be around 536mm.

I got the rims back with me, and I'll measure them myself this afternoon.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Update from "Nancy" (runs in line with the other replies):

"For rims, i checked one rim bead is over-sanded, also, our engineers decide to update the mold a little bit to prevent this issue.
So, your order is delayed, would you mind to wait for a few days for good rims? If not, we can return the payment to you, please don't worry about it."


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

gmats said:


> I measured two of the rims I got and they came in right at 537 mm. Look at my post above. I've also ordered the spokes for my CK rear ISO hub at 258/260mm. Like I said above, I'll update when I get to the build.


I went with 258mm all around for the CK ISO rear.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

So I had a very pleasant and lengthy chat with Nancy today. 

Apparently they are indeed updating the mold and are trying out a new compound with silicon added. Don't have anything technical, but supposedly going to make the rim a bit stronger.

If the delay is a problem for you, then it would be best if you moved on. I'd accept a delay in return for a stronger rim with more R&D.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

Ah, so all of us who have so far received rims are running version 1.0 and we're about to be superseded already 

I've posted the results of my 26" rim in the 40+ page 29er thread- rim looks good, weighs 375g and has 3 areas with very obvious sanding marks.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

womble said:


> Ah, so all of us who have so far received rims are running version 1.0 and we're about to be superseded already
> 
> I've posted the results of my 26" rim in the 40+ page 29er thread- rim looks good, weighs 375g and has 3 areas with very obvious sanding marks.


Well nothing wrong at all with the version 1.0 :thumbsup:

Apparently there were a few other that complained about the bead, so they're updating that area.

The silicon is just something new that they're trying out first on the wider 26er/29er. If results are good, then they will use it on everything else.

So far I believe they're still testing it, but Nancy is hopeful that they should be able to start completing orders in the next week or so.


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## snoroqc (May 6, 2005)

Thank you beta testers. Keep us informed.


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

thuren said:


> I ordered 3 weeks ago now. Requested delivery status/tracking a week ago, and was told about 2 more days. Requested it again last night, thinking they may have forgot to send tracking, so I can keep an eye for the postal guy. Now received the same "copy pasted" email from above, about the knotty process and would it be ok to ship in 10 more days?
> 
> Not very confidence inspiring at this point.


I just got the same email. Makes it seem they aren't close to getting it sorted if they've been saying ten days for the past month.

Not going to cancel, but I'm getting impatient, got a set of new CK's waiting to be laced up.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Any updates? Any more ERD measurements? So far we got one 537mm. Anybody else?


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## ACHTUNG! (Aug 18, 2008)

I'd like a status update from those that have these laced up and have run them. Anyone yet?


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

I got my third 10 day delay email.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Super66 said:


> I got my third 10 day delay email.


When did you order?


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

thuren said:


> When did you order?


Over a month ago.


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

For those that are waiting here's the latest update i have from Brian

"Sorry for late reply, we are at Shanghai Bicycle Fair these days, and we will check the rims the production line manufactured these days on April 30th and report back to you. Because, we will be back to factory on April 30th. Is that ok? The engineers say the new manufacture way is ok, but we need to check the rims by ourselves and mail to customers.

Best Regards,
Brian"


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

toons101 said:


> For those that are waiting here's the latest update i have from Brian
> 
> "Sorry for late reply, we are at Shanghai Bicycle Fair these days, and we will check the rims the production line manufactured these days on April 30th and report back to you. Because, we will be back to factory on April 30th. Is that ok? The engineers say the new manufacture way is ok, but we need to check the rims by ourselves and mail to customers.
> 
> ...


I just received the same email a few minutes ago.


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## womble (Sep 8, 2006)

I was in corresponding with light-bicycle over a month ago, and they'd mentioned that they were gearing up for this bike show and implied that there would be an interruption to production because of it. It might be annoying, but it makes sense.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

ACHTUNG! said:


> I'd like a status update from those that have these laced up and have run them. Anyone yet?


Aloha,

I am a step closer, the wheel was laced up this evening. I'll true it out on another day. Total weight for the whole set up is 848 grams. 326 g for the CK ISO hub with 10 mm axle. 135 g for the 32 DT revolution spokes (258/260mm). 9 grams for the red anodized DT Alloy nips. 378 grams for the rim. Sorry, I didn't get any pictures of the laced wheel yet.

I'm not doing a front wheel because I'm running 650b up front.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Beta testers, please provide input on ride quality/lateral stiffness. I am interested to know if the low profile (ie 24mm) vs, the taller Enve (30)mm profile affects the lateral stiffness of the wheel. One if the primary advantages to carbon IMHO is the increase in lateral stiffness vs. aluminum. Seems like these Chinese rims have simply copied the Roval profile, whereas Enve and the other US manufacturers prefer a deeper profile for increased lateral stiffness, right? It is encouraging to see the manufacturer making upgrades to the V2 bead to insure 100% UST compliance.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

buggymancan said:


> Beta testers, please provide input on ride quality/lateral stiffness. I am interested to know if the low profile (ie 24mm) vs, the taller Enve (30)mm profile affects the lateral stiffness of the wheel. One if the primary advantages to carbon IMHO is the increase in lateral stiffness vs. aluminum. Seems like these Chinese rims have simply copied the Roval profile, whereas Enve and the other US manufacturers prefer a deeper profile for increased lateral stiffness, right? It is encouraging to see the manufacturer making upgrades to the V2 bead to insure 100% UST compliance.


Which other companies make taller profiles? I only know of Enve. The Easton haven are also very popular and I believe it's only 22mm depth.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Here us my rear wheel with a bontrager strip. Tall rim made it hard to






mount tire.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

OK, yet another step closer. 

The wheel is trued up. The rim was easy to work with and came out quite nice with "even" spoke tension. There was only one interesting tid-bit. At least in a couple of places the material thickness of where the nipple passes through the rim is a bit thicker. In general, the material around the spoke holes is a bit thicker than typical al rims but standard nipples work fine.

The first picture shows one of the holes which is thicker. 

Second picture shows "normal" thickness. 

Third and fourth pictures self explanatory.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

buggymancan said:


> Beta testers, please provide input on ride quality/lateral stiffness. I am interested to know if the low profile (ie 24mm) vs, the taller Enve (30)mm profile affects the lateral stiffness of the wheel. One if the primary advantages to carbon IMHO is the increase in lateral stiffness vs. aluminum. Seems like these Chinese rims have simply copied the Roval profile, whereas Enve and the other US manufacturers prefer a deeper profile for increased lateral stiffness, right? It is encouraging to see the manufacturer making upgrades to the V2 bead to insure 100% UST compliance.


i don't claim to be an expert on rims and lateral stiffness, but wouldn't the width of the rim have the impact on lateral stiffness, rather the the height/profile?

I just imagine 2 hypothetical extreme "rims":
- one with no width (ie. 1mm wide) but with very high profile, 
- the other with no height but very wide.

The former could be easily be folded/bent sideways, and the latter couldn't.

the high profile rim would stay much rounder and resist flat spots, and the other would flat spot more easily. based on all this, in theory, the higher profile wheels would possibly have less vertical deformation, so might ride a bit harder (less compliance) over bumps. do the reports of enve wheels on hardtails reflect this?

having said all this, the number of spokes, spoke strength/thickness, and possibly spoke tension, would have much more impact lateral stiffness anyway - so it'd be pretty difficult to judge the lateral stiffness of the rim alone unless you had two completely identical builds (other than the rim).


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

First ride in and the rim did not combust.  makes for a nice light wheel. I really liked the tire profile with wide rim.

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2


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## SRALPH (Jun 27, 2008)

carbine! me likey! What's that growth on the chainstay though?


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

No idea, when I pedal, it magically moves forward.;-) 

Sent from my HTC Glacier using Tapatalk 2


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Me thinks he's referring to your Bionicon c.guide v.02


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

LOL. For some reason, I read "chain growth". Oh well.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

OK, one more step closer. 

Drilled the rim out for schrader, mounted a Maxxis High Roller 2.35. The tire aired up real easy and held without any leakage to speak of (ghetto tubeless). 

Overall I am liking the whole set up. The tire is massive and sits nice and square on the rim. I've only taken it for rides up and down the street. Next step, get it out on some single track and see how well the combinations works.


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## bob13bob (Jun 22, 2009)

As a newb, looking at these rims vs complete wheel from light-bicycle
It makes sense to just buy the complete wheel if you don't have spare parts., their bladed spokes are very light 4.3g vs dt swiss comp 5.78g. And they do it for same price with less weight.

their complete wheel $480 + $60 ship to US, $540 1345g
there are three sellars on ebay with carbon wheels, novatec hub, pillar bladed spokes, $415 1600+/-50g. So the ebay wheels weigh 250g more, but maybe thats all in the extra rim = beefier. Seems like ebay a better deal, Anything I'm missing here?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Those eBay rims are narrow, if that's what you are looking for the eBay wheels are cheaper, give them a shot and report back


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## CamW (Apr 15, 2012)

buggymancan said:


> Beta testers, please provide input on ride quality/lateral stiffness. I am interested to know if the low profile (ie 24mm) vs, the taller Enve (30)mm profile affects the lateral stiffness of the wheel. One if the primary advantages to carbon IMHO is the increase in lateral stiffness vs. aluminum. Seems like these Chinese rims have simply copied the Roval profile, whereas Enve and the other US manufacturers prefer a deeper profile for increased lateral stiffness, right? It is encouraging to see the manufacturer making upgrades to the V2 bead to insure 100% UST compliance.


I can't post links but if you check out post #435 in the carbon 29er rim thread someone has done some at home stiffness measurements of a couple of different rims.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

CamW said:


> I can't post links but if you check out post #435 in the carbon 29er rim thread someone has done some at home stiffness measurements of a couple of different rims.


I can post the link


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

Has anyone recently received a shipment notification?


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## Corvette (Nov 20, 2005)

Some more info from Nancy @ support, I've asked about 26 wide carbon rims:

_- The rims will be ready on May 15th.
- Yes, it is tubeless compatible. Please find attached cross-section drawing.
- The weight will be at 380g. If you like, we can make heavier version for large riders.
- For warranty, it is one year. During this period, customers can get replacement rims if there is any quality issue under reasonable using.

We will make two types of this rim. One is heavier for large riders, and the other is for light riders. So, if you like, you can order heavier version._


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Got my first ride in on the wheel I built using the rim. The wheel rocks!! Set up ghetto tubeless using schrader valve and Maxxis High Roller tire. The tire seated immediately, no leaking or leak down or sealing issues. Out on the ride the bike hooks up and climbs awesome. No burping at all. Finally, a wide rim for the wide tires that I want to run for trail riding without the weight penalty. So far they are well worth it at killer price. 

I say be patient, it's well worth the wait. 

Aloha,
g


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## scottyoungsheep (Jun 9, 2010)

Any chance of a few pictures?


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

gmats posted a bunch of pix earlier in this thread:thumbsup:


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## ronnyg801 (Oct 4, 2008)

Has anyone built a wheel set for their dirt jumper yet? I need a new DJ wheel set and was thinking I might give these a go on it.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I was looking at their carbon 26" wheelset...

Quick math show that $300 for rims and $130 for the Novatec hubs they use get it pretty close to what you could build yourself for a decent XC wheelset. They sell them for $480.

I'm not an expert on wheel building, but would you buy them build already or prefer to get them laced up by yourself or at the LBS ?









26er MTB carbon wheel clincher - light-bicycle


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

David C said:


> I was looking at their carbon 26" wheelset...
> 
> Quick math show that $300 for rims and $130 for the Novatec hubs they use get it pretty close to what you could build yourself for a decent XC wheelset. They sell them for $480.
> 
> ...


That's a tough call as always. I've built all my own wheels for many years but by the time I end up paying for the parts and shipping on all the stuff (to Hawaii), it gets pretty expensive. However, guess I always know what I want when I build up a bike or parts for it (wheels). Therefore, it's a one time cost for me instead of doing many upgrades over and over after buying off the shelf stuff.

If I were located in a more reasonable place, I'd be happy to build and teach how to build the wheels, it's actually not hard and just takes patience. After a few passes, building them becomes easier and easier.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

macming said:


> Mine! I had the Bontrager Rythem strip mounted initially, but it was next to impossible to mount a tire. So I ended up doing just a layer of yellow tape, and so far so good.
> 
> The 'UST lip' on the Rythem strip is also pretty far from the tire bead. So by the time it catches, I think the tire would've already burped. I never run too low of a pressure, so I'll see how the yellow tape works.


Looks awesome! Did you measure the ERD?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Mine! I had the Bontrager Rythem strip mounted initially, but it was next to impossible to mount a tire. So I ended up doing just a layer of yellow tape, and so far so good.

The 'UST lip' on the Rythem strip is also pretty far from the tire bead. So by the time it catches, I think the tire would've already burped. I never run too low of a pressure, so I'll see how the yellow tape works.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> Looks awesome! Did you measure the ERD?


Mine came out to be around 530mm. Which really surprised me. My mechanic measured the rims as well, and he came back with a similar number.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Anyone have any current updates if rims are shipping yet, after the new molds?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

They are supposed to be ready the 15th per Nancy emailing me yesterday.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Sealant question. I have put a Rythm strip in my rear wheel, and about two cups of Stan, and my Captain tire does not seem to hold pressure overnight, even after a few rides. It does not deflate completely but gets down to the single digit psi. Anybody else having the same issue. Should I put a yellow strip first and the rythm strip on top?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

zorg said:


> Sealant question. I have put a Rythm strip in my rear wheel, and about two cups of Stan, and my Captain tire does not seem to hold pressure overnight, even after a few rides. It does not deflate completely but gets down to the single digit psi. Anybody else having the same issue. Should I put a yellow strip first and the rythm strip on top?


Are you using tape first? If not you still need to tape over the spoke holes before using the rim strip.

I would get the wider 21 or 23 mm tape.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

mestapho said:


> Are you using tape first? If not you still need to tape over the spoke holes before using the rim strip.
> 
> I would get the wider 21 or 23 mm tape.


On the first rim, I did not use the yellow tape first. I will on the next one to see if it makes a difference.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

shouldnt need stans tape under the rim strip


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## BroSole (Apr 7, 2012)

Check the tire bead for damage.

When I mount my tubeless tires I always add the Stans, air up, do the whole shake thing and start rotating the wheel slowly under water. It's usually sealed right up, but I once had a pin hole in the sidewall that was a bit stubborn. To fix it I left the wheel that side down for a bit and it sealed.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

clewttu said:


> shouldnt need stans tape under the rim strip


According to Stan's you do:



> Installation Steps
> 
> 1. Remove tire and tube from your wheel.
> 
> Leave on your existing rim tape or install 1-2 layers of Stan's yellow Rim Tape.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mestapho said:


> According to Stan's you do:


sorry, all i meant was yellow tape isnt required and has nothing to do with sealing, as standad tape will work and the strip should be sealing the interface, should have been clearer


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Did you re-lace the i-9's yourself? If so, which stock rims did you replace and how did the ERD compare with the old alloy rims? I see you are using the straight pull aluminum spokes. Did you note inconsistencies in the wall thickness as reported with earlier builds? This would show up as irregular spoke lengths, in the case of I9, where the spokes thread into the hub flange. Others have noted that the standard nipples project at different lengths at the spoke holes due to the internal rim thickness differences at the spoke holes.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

mestapho said:


> Are you using tape first? If not you still need to tape over the spoke holes before using the rim strip.
> 
> I would get the wider 21 or 23 mm tape.


Get the 25mm tape



zorg said:


> On the first rim, I did not use the yellow tape first. I will on the next one to see if it makes a difference.


I'd put tape underneath. The Rythem strip I got moved around a bit. I'd feel more comfortable with the yellow tape underneath.



clewttu said:


> shouldnt need stans tape under the rim strip





buggymancan said:


> Did you re-lace the i-9's yourself? If so, which stock rims did you replace and how did the ERD compare with the old alloy rims? I see you are using the straight pull aluminum spokes. Did you note inconsistencies in the wall thickness as reported with earlier builds? This would show up as irregular spoke lengths, in the case of I9, where the spokes thread into the hub flange. Others have noted that the standard nipples project at different lengths at the spoke holes due to the internal rim thickness differences at the spoke holes.


I got my LBS to do it since we have a pretty good relationship. I had a few other wheels built at the same time, and he only charged me $30/wheel with free truing later on.

The original rim was a DT 5.1d (539mm), and the spokes JUST worked.

The rim is definitely not perfectly round on the inside, and my mechanic mentioned the inconsistency as well. At the end of the day, he made it work, which I'm happy about.

I think I got a bit lucky because the straight pull I9 spokes have much more range for error compared to a Jbend/nipple setup.

The big ride is this weekend, but a quick ride around the block was very pleasant.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

macming said:


> Get the 25mm tape


Isn't the internal width 23mm?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

mestapho said:


> Isn't the internal width 23mm?


Yes, but there are curves you need to account for. I used the 25mm tape on mine, and I could've easily used a tape 2 - 3mm wider.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

macming said:


> Yes, but there are curves you need to account for. I used the 25mm tape on mine, and I could've easily used a tape 2 - 3mm wider.


Ahh, that makes sense.


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## Thorin_2 (Jan 16, 2009)

*Wide in front. Narrow in back?*

I'm seriously considering purchasing a pair of these "Nancy" wheels. I have a question though: I like riding a narrower profile tire in back, say 1.95, and wider up front. Would it make sense to order a mismatched pair, i.e. a wider (23mm internal) upfront and a narrower (21mm) rear? Or will I burp air under hard cornering? If I go wide on both, then what's the narrowest tire profile I'll be able to run for my back tire?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

as for a 1.95 tire on the wider rim, i have no experience with that as i cant imagine ever wanting a tire that small, did find this chart though fwiw, and it looks to be ok but who knows how it will handle
dont see any problem with mismatching them either if thats what youd prefer


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm using a 2.0 Spesh Captain on the wide rim as my rear wheel and like it. It gives a nice profile.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, this guy is running 700x28 road tires on his 29er wide rims


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

macming said:


> Mine! I had the Bontrager Rythem strip mounted initially, but it was next to impossible to mount a tire. So I ended up doing just a layer of yellow tape, and so far so good.
> 
> The 'UST lip' on the Rythem strip is also pretty far from the tire bead. So by the time it catches, I think the tire would've already burped. I never run too low of a pressure, so I'll see how the yellow tape works.


I took these rims out for their first trail ride. They were just AWESOME! I was able to climb easier with them, and the nice round tire profile was super nice in terms of good traction.

Overall, I'm very impressed with their quality (not perfect, but for the $$). My Nomad carbon now has the right amount of weight/strength balance :thumbsup:

Quick ride video from yesterday


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

I didn't end up using my Bontrager strips, if anyone wants to buy the pair. They took me a while to hunt down.


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## Thorin_2 (Jan 16, 2009)

*UST compatible?*

I've scoured this and the 29er Chinese thread but can't find the answer to this question:

Has anyone mounted a UST tire (not tubeless ready, but actual UST) to the AM (34mm internal) version of these rims? From the rim cross section it doesn't appear to match UST spec, so will a UST spec tire mount to these rims?


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

Thorin_2 said:


> I've scoured this and the 29er Chinese thread but can't find the answer to this question:
> 
> Has anyone mounted a UST tire (not tubeless ready, but actual UST) to the AM (34mm internal) version of these rims? From the rim cross section it doesn't appear to match UST spec, so will a UST spec tire mount to these rims?


many tubeless ready tires have a UST spec bead, just not an air-tight casing. 
user 'zorg' seems to be running S captain 2bliss on his with bonty strips.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Thorin_2 said:


> I've scoured this and the 29er Chinese thread but can't find the answer to this question:
> 
> Has anyone mounted a UST tire (not tubeless ready, but actual UST) to the AM (34mm internal) version of these rims? From the rim cross section it doesn't appear to match UST spec, so will a UST spec tire mount to these rims?


I'm running ust tires just fine


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## Thorin_2 (Jan 16, 2009)

*Missling bead lock?*



macming said:


> I'm running ust tires just fine


Macming, forgive me for beating a dead horse; but how is it possible as based on the profile there appears to be no bead lock? How does the UST tire "hook" for the air tight seal without the bead lock on the rim? That's what worries me most, as I plan on strictly using UST tires.


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

Thorin_2 said:


> Macming, forgive me for beating a dead horse; but how is it possible as based on the profile there appears to be no bead lock? How does the UST tire "hook" for the air tight seal without the bead lock on the rim? That's what worries me most, as I plan on strictly using UST tires.


i haven't followed that closely but weren't there two drawings? - one that was incorrect and one that was corrected that had been emailed to some people who asked directly about it.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Thorin_2 said:


> Macming, forgive me for beating a dead horse; but how is it possible as based on the profile there appears to be no bead lock? How does the UST tire "hook" for the air tight seal without the bead lock on the rim? That's what worries me most, as I plan on strictly using UST tires.


I was concerned about the lack of bead lock myself. In fact, I purchased a set of Bontrager Rythem strips to correct this.

At the end of the day, my UST nobby nics mounted supe easily. The bead popped into place as I aired them up. I left them at 30 psi, and the tire/wheel performed beatifully over the last ride.

Considering how cheap these rims are, I have no complaints.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Anybody received their rims recently? Looks like my order is still stalled.


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

hopefully soon

"We got the test rims from the updated mold last Friday and the rims were in good condition, we would officially manufacture wider 26er rims and ship them out in ordering sequence from this week.

Best Regards,
Brian from Light-Bicycle"


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## captain spaulding (May 7, 2006)

toons101 said:


> hopefully soon
> 
> "We got the test rims from the updated mold last Friday and the rims were in good condition, we would officially manufacture wider 26er rims and ship them out in ordering sequence from this week.
> 
> ...


Are these the rims for "heavier people" or just the regular wide rims?


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## Jamie_MTB (Nov 18, 2004)

captain spaulding said:


> Are these the rims for "heavier people" or just the regular wide rims?


regular wide rims


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

there really isnt a distinguishment between the two, they are the same rim, one just layed up with more carbon...they will be using the same molds so its just a matter of when you placed your order it sounds like, regardless if you asked for the HD rims or standard


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

*Ordered mine today!*

I have a new set of the very light American Classic Disc hubs and just paid for my set of the wider 26 inch rims today ($304.00 with logo). Mine will have the matte finish 3k with their name in clear high gloss like ENVE does but instead of the blue background it will be red. I will be using DT Competition spokes (1.8-2.0) with red ano nipples and AC red ano tubeless valve stems. They should look pretty awesome when they're built up before the end of next month.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

Going to order a pair. What size length spokes should I use for the front and rear?


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

I'll post the ERD when I get them.


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## Thorin_2 (Jan 16, 2009)

*Logo*



sbrdude1 said:


> ($304.00 with logo). .


Can someone educate me on the process involved to get the logo done? What colors do they support? What dimensions do you use? What file format do you send them? I'm most interested in paying the bit extra for logos but the process seems quite obscure to me.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

I did the logo in clear to contrast the matte finish and the blue behind the logo will be red.


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## Thorin_2 (Jan 16, 2009)

*Logo*

Impressive! Although I would have gone with "NANCY COMPOSITES" myself (kidding).

Did you actually send them this image, or did you create a graphic file that accounted for the rim curvature and such? If so do you mind sharing how so I can recreate in Illustrator (using different words of course)?


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## Thorin_2 (Jan 16, 2009)

*UST compatible?*

Just received this cross section diagram from Brian. Aside from the small ledge this looks like it might work ok with UST spec tires, which is what I plan on running. Thoughts?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

read the thread, its been discussed


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Update from Nancy:
Sorry for the late reply, the rims will be shipped before the end of this month. The first production has been started last week. And will do sanding & painting these days. I will do QC check before shipping.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Bontrager symmetric Rythm strip will give you the bead lock you're looking for (wide rim only). It weighs next to nothing and works beautifully. I also suspect (but only time will tell) that the Rythm strip will hold up better over time than the equivalent Stan strip, while being much cheaper. I run a 2.0 Spesh Captain 2bliss tire on the rear and a Maxxis Advantage 2.25 on the front with Stan's goop without any problem. I used my compressor to air it up and the bead set quickly. The Captain took 2-3 rides to seal well, and now holds air really well. I currently run the tires around 30-32 psi (probably 175-180# ready to ride) on an Intense Carbine. I'll experiment with lower pressures over the next few rides.

One more thing: I had to use 3 tire levers to set in place a new Captain tire, and it was a real pain. I only needed one for the used Maxxis Advantage.


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

zorg said:


> Bontrager symmetric Rythm strip will give you the bead lock you're looking for (wide rim only). It weighs next to nothing and works beautifully. I also suspect (but only time will tell) that the Rythm strip will hold up better over time than the equivalent Stan strip, while being much cheaper. I run a 2.0 Spesh Captain 2bliss tire on the rear and a Maxxis Advantage 2.25 on the front with Stan's goop without any problem. I used my compressor to air it up and the bead set quickly. The Captain took 2-3 rides to seal well, and now holds air really well. I currently run the tires around 30-32 psi (probably 175-180# ready to ride) on an Intense Carbine. I'll experiment with lower pressures over the next few rides.
> 
> One more thing: I had to use 3 tire levers to set in place a new Captain tire, and it was a real pain. I only needed one for the used Maxxis Advantage.


you ran the flow strips prior to the bonty strip, right? another poster showed the bonty didn't meet the bead fully - i assume yours are the same and how did the flow strip fit compared to the bonty?

http://forums.mtbr.com/9288977-post185.html


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

'size said:


> you ran the flow strips prior to the bonty strip, right? another poster showed the bonty didn't meet the bead fully - i assume yours are the same and how did the flow strip fit compared to the bonty?
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/9288977-post185.html


I ordered a Flow strip but never used it since the Rythm strip worked so well. I don't quite follow the "UST bead being too far" comment. The edges of the strip are lined up properly with the inside rim wall as far as I can tell, so if the UST beadlocks are too far, that'd be due to the Rythm strip being inadequate. Then again, I'm no tire/bead/wheel specialist, just your average Joe rider. For what it's worth, I rode the bike in the mountain where it's fairly rocky a couple times, and the rear tire never burped (front wheel wasn't ready yet then).


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

I ordered yesterday a pair of 26" carbon rims (not the wide version) and today I got this ETA from Nancy:



> Hello sir,
> Thank you so much, your rims will be finished in 8days, i will mail you the tracking number when the rims are finished.
> Thanks,Nancy


I must tell that I never had such a quick reply and support from any online company in the past. Nancy is answering me in less than 10 minutes each time I'm sending. Now lets hope it will really be 8 days...


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

zorg said:


> I ordered a Flow strip but never used it since the Rythm strip worked so well. I don't quite follow the "UST bead being too far" comment. The edges of the strip are lined up properly with the inside rim wall as far as I can tell, so if the UST beadlocks are too far, that'd be due to the Rythm strip being inadequate. Then again, I'm no tire/bead/wheel specialist, just your average Joe rider. For what it's worth, I rode the bike in the mountain where it's fairly rocky a couple times, and the rear tire never burped (front wheel wasn't ready yet then).


do your strips look like this when mounted?



















or is there a gap between the strip and the bead hook like this?


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Looks like it.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

No they sent me the image.


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

zorg said:


> Looks like it.


'it' being the first two images or the third?


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

The wheel logo pic.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

'size said:


> 'it' being the first two images or the third?


Looks like the first. I don't remember seeing a gap, then again, I wasn't looking for it either. I'm a simple guy. I put it on, I installed the tire, I aired it up and it stayed inflated. I was happy.


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## gladegp (Aug 21, 2007)

This whole ERD thing needs to be checked. Is it 536 or 530? Are you guys who say 530 sure you're measuring correctly?
I have flows now and would like to swap over since they also have ERD 536


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

you should measure it yourself once you get them, especially with some of the manufacturing hiccups that have come up, theres a chance that there may be some differing measures on these rims, though a 6mm delta seems quite off
...that said, they list 536mm on the website for the wide 26", and i believe the guys ordering the 29er version have come up with similar measures as the websites listed ERD


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

'size said:


> 'it' being the first two images or the third?


I posted the second picture. If you looked at the rim directly, there is the same amount of gap between the rim and the strip. I wasn't too comfortable with it, and the strip made the rim too tight to mount a tire.



zorg said:


> Looks like the first. I don't remember seeing a gap, then again, I wasn't looking for it either. I'm a simple guy. I put it on, I installed the tire, I aired it up and it stayed inflated. I was happy.





gladegp said:


> This whole ERD thing needs to be checked. Is it 536 or 530? Are you guys who say 530 sure you're measuring correctly?
> I have flows now and would like to swap over since they also have ERD 536


My rims were definitely not 536. The excess spoke showing on my straight pull Industry 9 wheels is much more so than 1.5mm (I had DT 5.1ds with 539mm ERD before). Both my LBS and I came to the same 529-530mm measurement.

If you don't have spokes already, I'd wait until you got the rims before ordering spokes.



clewttu said:


> you should measure it yourself once you get them, especially with some of the manufacturing hiccups that have come up, theres a chance that there may be some differing measures on these rims, though a 6mm delta seems quite off
> ...that said, they list 536mm on the website for the wide 26", and i believe the guys ordering the 29er version have come up with similar measures as the websites listed ERD


Perhaps it was a manufacturing defect. I probably should've waited for the second batch


----------



## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

macming said:


> My rims were definitely not 536. The excess spoke showing on my straight pull Industry 9 wheels is much more so than 1.5mm (I had DT 5.1ds with 539mm ERD before). Both my LBS and I came to the same 529-530mm measurement.


wow, those I9 spoke/hubs are way more versatile than i thought. I never knew you could use the same spokes for rims that differ by 10mm in ERD. (I probably should've bought that I9 wheelset that was up for sale a while back)

So, do you have an extra 5mm of spoke showing through at the hub?

Do those I9 spokes need nipples at the rim end, or is there a thicker bit at the end - kinda like a built in nipple?

Did you measure the ERD with these i9 spokes/nipples? How about stock standard nipples/spokes? If so, did you get the same ERD? From what I have read, some of the other nipples sit a little differently in some rims, making a few mm diff in the ERD measurement.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

gladegp said:


> This whole ERD thing needs to be checked. Is it 536 or 530? Are you guys who say 530 sure you're measuring correctly?
> I have flows now and would like to swap over since they also have ERD 536


If in doubt, measure it yourself. Check online, there are several means to measure it.

As I stated above, I measured mine at 537 mm, close enough to the 536 mm. Measured it myself, bought the necessary spokes to build my wheel and it came out right on.

Good luck with that.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

Any riders here tested this rims at downhill or any really rocky terrain ?
Will it hold?

Thanks


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## gladegp (Aug 21, 2007)

gmats said:


> If in doubt, measure it yourself. Check online, there are several means to measure it.
> 
> As I stated above, I measured mine at 537 mm, close enough to the 536 mm. Measured it myself, bought the necessary spokes to build my wheel and it came out right on.
> 
> Good luck with that.


First of all I found it very difficult to measure ERD precisely. I used the techniques from a wheelbuilding PDF I have but I still got it wrong on an old rim.

Second, I have Comp and Revo spokes matching my Hope Pro2 and Flows which would be nice to use over again. If I could do that it would make this deal more attractive.

I sort of doubt that it could be quality problems making the rims differ by 6-7 mm in diameter. I mean thay have solid metal molds they make these in. They can't differ that much if they dont switch molds. I'd be more inclined to thinking it's measuring differences.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

*Spending again...*

Because of this "stupid" thread, I have now ordered the wide 26" rims... Also ordered the MTB252 rear hub from BikeHubStore. I went with this hub because it has 42 POE, good for my singlespeed. This will be the first time I will be building wheels. I've done pretty much everything on my bikes, except build wheels... damn MTBR.....

Johnnydrz


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

See attached image. I broke a piece of the freehub body while trying to change my bearings yesterday. I took this picture to source a new freehub body from I9.

The I9 spokes have a built in nipple and thread into the hub.



sclyde2 said:


> wow, those I9 spoke/hubs are way more versatile than i thought. I never knew you could use the same spokes for rims that differ by 10mm in ERD. (I probably should've bought that I9 wheelset that was up for sale a while back)
> 
> So, do you have an extra 5mm of spoke showing through at the hub?
> 
> ...





gmats said:


> If in doubt, measure it yourself. Check online, there are several means to measure it.
> 
> As I stated above, I measured mine at 537 mm, close enough to the 536 mm. Measured it myself, bought the necessary spokes to build my wheel and it came out right on.
> 
> Good luck with that.





gladegp said:


> First of all I found it very difficult to measure ERD precisely. I used the techniques from a wheelbuilding PDF I have but I still got it wrong on an old rim.
> 
> Second, I have Comp and Revo spokes matching my Hope Pro2 and Flows which would be nice to use over again. If I could do that it would make this deal more attractive.
> 
> I sort of doubt that it could be quality problems making the rims differ by 6-7 mm in diameter. I mean thay have solid metal molds they make these in. They can't differ that much if they dont switch molds. I'd be more inclined to thinking it's measuring differences.


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## Super66 (Mar 20, 2012)

This mornings email from Light-Bicycle

Hello

I am sorry to say but I'm afraid not. The 26er rims have not come out yet. We are now trying our best to manufacture. They should be shipped at the end of this month. We are sorry about it.

Best Regards,
Brian from Light-Bicycle


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## captain spaulding (May 7, 2006)

Asked them about 20mm F & 12x142 R 32H on the wider rims, $540, def sounds reasonable, if I blew up another ex 500, I might just pull the trigger..


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## p0r0y (Sep 5, 2008)

Subscribed. Interested on this rims as well.


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## BroSole (Apr 7, 2012)

Got an email this morning from Brian. Seems they can't get a good batch of the 26 wider rims. Going to be a while.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

for real? jeez...have been trying to wait as this wasnt a need now build but im growing impatient
wonder what the issues are, did they say?


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Super66 said:


> This mornings email from Light-Bicycle
> 
> Hello
> 
> ...


Do you have Brian's e-mail? I would like to check on the status of my order.
Thanks, ken
[email protected]


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

buggymancan said:


> Do you have Brian's e-mail? I would like to check on the status of my order.
> Thanks, ken
> [email protected]


"bryan" is just a pseudonym used by their sales dept, like "nancy", to westernize themselves
email the sales dept sales"at"light-bicycle.com


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## BroSole (Apr 7, 2012)

Ordered a set of i23's to use in the meantime. Been sitting on a set of CK's for almost three months.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

From LB:
"The rims are finished, one rim has some painting pollution, and i have asked the production line to repaint, we can ship them out to you these days."

no idea what paint pollution is, i guess dust/particulate got on them or something...which is of no concern to me if thats the case


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I guess it must be some small paint/clear coat particles that have fallen over the rim. Or someone just drop his coffee right on the rims


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

captain spaulding said:


> Any updates? I heard they are close to shipping?


Yesterday:

Hello,

The wider 26er rim mold has completed updating. Late week, we sent out two rims to an earlier-ordered customer and we will ship out more from this week. Your rims would probable be shipped in one week, according to the order sequence.

Best Regards,
Brian from Light-Bicycle


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## captain spaulding (May 7, 2006)

Any updates? I heard they are close to shipping?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Got this about 10 minutes ago
"We can ship the rims to you tomorrow, i have done the QC check on the rims today. The rims are ok."


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## 1soulrider (Jan 21, 2004)

Am I right in guessing it has been about three months from order to ship for you? I ordered a set over a month ago (because of this damn thread), wondering if it will take another couple months to see the rims.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

it has nothing to do with when you ordered
they had issues in the beginning that they needed to iron out, and they stopped production...so id imagine that they will be shipping all backorders shortly


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Got mine, from the original batch in 3-4 weeks.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

This is almost the finished desidn that I am having done on my wheels. I told them to eliminate the white in the background and to make it only red. The actual name is not any color but high gloss clear so it will pop in sunlight.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

clewttu said:


> Got this about 10 minutes ago
> "We can ship the rims to you tomorrow, i have done the QC check on the rims today. The rims are ok."


just got my tracking #


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Ive been lurking around for a while now but this is my first post. 

I emailed Light-bicycle yesterday about the rider weight limit of the rims and "Nancy" claims that the 360g-370g wheels have a rider weight limit of 140kg, thats roughly 308lbs. "She" also says that the beefier version, 390g, has a rider limit of 160kg or 352lbs. So their beefier rim is 5g less than the ENVE AM rim. She also sent me a cross section that has somewhat of a bead lip making them far more suitable for tubules. 

I have a question though for those of you with these wheels. Have any of you taken the new wider rims off any sizable drops or jumps? Say 3'-5' in height? I ride aggressively and hit every jump on a trail I can, and weigh 230lbs, so I am wondering if the 370g rim would be fine since I am 70-80 lbs under the limit plus these would go on a 6" travel bike.

I have SLR's on my stumpy now and have not had any issues with them and these are supposed to be much stiffer and stronger than the SLR's.


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## gladegp (Aug 21, 2007)

ttengineer said:


> Ive been lurking around for a while now but this is my first post.
> 
> I emailed Light-bicycle yesterday about the rider weight limit of the rims and "Nancy" claims that the 360g-370g wheels have a rider weight limit of 140kg, thats roughly 308lbs. "She" also says that the beefier version, 390g, has a rider limit of 160kg or 352lbs. So their beefier rim is 5g less than the ENVE AM rim. She also sent me a cross section that has somewhat of a bead lip making them far more suitable for tubules.
> 
> ...


If you weigh 230, do drops and ride aggressively I would definitely go for the beefier rim. It's 40 g difference. Remember that these are cheaper chinese rims which cannot be compared to $1000 rims. I would have some margin


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

ttengineer said:


> She also sent me a cross section that has somewhat of a bead lip making them far more suitable for tubules.


plz post image

wait - never mind


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

BCBlur said:


> Yesterday:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> ...


Just got a tracking number.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

gladegp said:


> If you weigh 230, do drops and ride aggressively I would definitely go for the beefier rim. It's 40 g difference. Remember that these are cheaper chinese rims which cannot be compared to $1000 rims. I would have some margin


Ok i get that these are chinese rims but they are no less quality than the more expensive ones right?

When I worked at an outdoor store in college we had a 45% profit margin on products so lets use that as an example:

If I go to a bike shop and buy 1000 rims that means the shop probably paid 550-650 for them, and the manufacturer probably made 300-450 on them when sold to the dealer. So using this example I would assume that if light-bicycle went through US distributers these rims would probably sell for 1500 for a set.

Yes that is cheaper than the 1800-2400 price we see on name brands but those are name brands and want to make more money to pay for all the R&D.

The reality is something like 80% of the worlds bikes are made in the FAR EAST and Light-bicycle probably makes frames and rims for several companies that are based here in the US or Europe. I know that there is a lot of chinese knock off crap out there but those are usually boot legs and these rims aren't bootlegs. Plus add the communication that light-bicycle does so well at and I am inclined to think these are at least 80% as good as say ENVE rims

I figured I would go with the beefier rims. I just hope they dont end up over 400g in weight.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

i dont think the quality is an issue, and id guess 80% of Enve is probably a fair estimate (maybe even conservative?), one of those hard to determine values without some destructive testing...when you throw in bang for buck though, its hard to imagine Enves being 6-7 times better than these rims
also dont think 3-5' drops are anything to worry about, especially with the beefed up rims and 6" of travel


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

beanbag said:


> plz post image
> 
> wait - never mind


See post 224 on page 9. Its the same one I was sent


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

clewttu said:


> i dont think the quality is an issue, and id guess 80% of Enve is probably a fair estimate (maybe even conservative?), one of those hard to determine values without some destructive testing...when you throw in bang for buck though, its hard to imagine Enves being 6-7 times better than these rims
> also dont think 3-5' drops are anything to worry about, especially with the beefed up rims and 6" of travel


Agreed, I would just like to see some more earlier adopters input before I pull the trigger. But the price is just so damn cheap that I may be willing to be an early adopter myself for 280 bucks. I mean if it works out I will feel like the luckiest SOB on the planet, and if it doesn't the rims still have a 1 year warranty and only cost 280 for the set so its not like its a huge blow to my bank account.

If I do buy them I think I am going to use that new Kappius Evolution Hub with 240 POI! With the money I am saving on the rims I think it would be well worth the cost for the hubs.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Bit the bullet and ordered two sets (one 26er and one 29er) Bryan emailed me saying due to production backorders, it would be about three weeks before they are sent.

Fingers crossed he is working on the "under-promise-over-deliver" philosophy. I have a three day stage race on June 30-July2 that I would really like to have them for but I guess, I snooze, i lose.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

ttengineer said:


> I figured I would go with the beefier rims. I just hope they dont end up over 400g in weight.


Unless you want a light wheelset or your current rims are 400grs or less, 400gr of a CARBON rim is not bad. Yeah, it will be heavy but pretty much bombproof.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

what spokes would pair well with these wider rims?


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## Locksley (Sep 17, 2008)

This thread is making me to hit the 'buy' button .... I just received the email from Nancy on the design on the rim. Looking great. Intend to mount American Classic hubs with it to save some grams. 

Just like to check with those who got it in hand
How is the ride ? 
Any mounting issue with Tubeless tires ?
What u do not like about it ?

Thanks


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Locksley said:


> This thread is making me to hit the 'buy' button .... I just received the email from Nancy on the design on the rim. Looking great. Intend to mount American Classic hubs with it to save some grams.
> 
> Just like to check with those who got it in hand
> How is the ride ?
> ...


not many people have received theirs yet because they had manufacturing problems and had rework the mold, the few that have received them from the original batch have posted about them in this thread already, if you havent read it
you will have to wait a couple weeks for reviews as they are just shipping out now for the people who ordered them a few months ago (picking mine up tomorrow from the post office, and then will be probably 2 weeks before i have them built up) or go read the 29er versions mega thread


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Locksley said:


> This thread is making me to hit the 'buy' button .... I just received the email from Nancy on the design on the rim. Looking great. Intend to mount American Classic hubs with it to save some grams.
> 
> Just like to check with those who got it in hand
> How is the ride ?
> ...


I'm running mine with tubeless tires. The rims are super stiff, and accelerate like crazy.

I didn't think much of the rims until I hopped back onto my XC bike with 819s. There was a huge amount of difference in stiffness. It wasn't even funny.

Buy them and you won't regret it.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

womble said:


> Impossible to tell, as these are not in production yet. However given that a Mavic 823 weighs over 600g, it's a bit hard to imagine that a sub 400 carbon rim is intended to compete in that usage category.
> 
> Check the 20 page thread in the 29er section for some short term ride reports.


The Santa Cruz DH team is getting an entire season out of their Enve DH wheels when they would get a weekend out of the old aluminum wheel sponsors product. Some times you can have your cake and eat it to.


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## Locksley (Sep 17, 2008)

macming said:


> I'm running mine with tubeless tires. The rims are super stiff, and accelerate like crazy.
> 
> I didn't think much of the rims until I hopped back onto my XC bike with 819s. There was a huge amount of difference in stiffness. It wasn't even funny.
> 
> Buy them and you won't regret it.


Thanks bro ... 
More Stiffness = more Butt pain 
Can I say that I need to pump more pressure on my rear shock to accommodate the stiffness from the rear carbon rim ?

one more thing - I'm using NN 2.2 now . Will it be too small for the 30mm wide rim ?


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Has anyone thought of building these with Ti spokes?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I've slowly started saving my pennies for a set of those rims...

Might do the move for next year, but I'd like to first see some solid feedback from a few months of use of those rims from the early adopters. I know this isn't mega $$$, but for a student that's a lot of money for a set of rims. I'll be using them on my GT XCR bike, so a FS XC bike and since I'm fairly lightweight at 120 and never really destroyed bike parts even riding hard, I'm thinking about a low spokes count build with the narrow 26" rim.

I won't be running anything bigger than 2.1 tires and probably won't even go tubeless, but I'd like to see if the narrow rims could handle ghetto tubeless setup with standard, non tubeless folding tires.

And does anyone as a link or reference chart about the different carbon fiber wave/finish ?


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Locksley said:


> Thanks bro ...
> More Stiffness = more Butt pain
> Can I say that I need to pump more pressure on my rear shock to accommodate the stiffness from the rear carbon rim ?
> 
> one more thing - I'm using NN 2.2 now . Will it be too small for the 30mm wide rim ?


DO NOT pump more pressure into your shock! Set your pressure according to manufacture weight limits or 25-30% sag depending on your bike. You will ruin the small bump compliance and the handling if you pump up the pressure in the shock.

As far as tire width is concerned a 2.2 would be fine on that rim but a 2.3-2.5 would be best


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

customfab said:


> The Santa Cruz DH team is getting an entire season out of their Enve DH wheels when they would get a weekend out of the old aluminum wheel sponsors product. Some times you can have your cake and eat it to.


Just for reference the ENVE DH rims are 475g a piece. The beefier version of the chinese rim only weighs 400g so these rims are not suitable for DH. I believe they are suitable for AM though as the beefier version rims weigh the same as ENVE AM rims..


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

there are far more variables that determine its suitability for usage than just comparing weights


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

ttengineer said:


> DO NOT pump more pressure into your shock! Set your pressure according to manufacture weight limits or 25-30% sag depending on your bike. You will ruin the small bump compliance and the handling if you pump up the pressure in the shock.
> 
> As far as tire width is concerned a 2.2 would be fine on that rim but a 2.3-2.5 would be best


FWIW, I'm running a Maxxis Advantage 2.25 on the front and a Spesh Captain 2.0 on the rear, both tubeless using the Bontrager Rythm strip. Very happy with the wheels so far.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

clewttu said:


> there are far more variables that determine its suitability for usage than just comparing weights


True but these rims are stated to have passed and are certified for EN testing standards.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

First off I need to mention, I have zero experience with carbon rims, so I don't really have a baseline of comparison for these. 
The exterior finish is good, and there are no irregularities. The bed seems solid as well, with minimal sanding spots, no noticeable areas where filler has been used. All the bead hooks are properly formed and fairly uniform (the only variations are where a couple of rim segments meet, but they are nominal). One of the valve holes on the interior looks a bit irregular and is prob gonna need to be opened up a little more, but id rather it be under drilled than over drilled I suppose. Overall I am very pleased with these rims, construction is as good or better than I expected from following this and the 29er thread (again no carbon rim experience) and they feel nice and light/stiff unbuilt compared to past experience with velocity/stans.
I am one that thinks weight weenies are a bit ridiculous and have no intentions of weighing these (no scale). I ordered the standard layup that is claimed to be in the 370g +/-10 range fwiw, and if they are 400g it wouldn't bother me.

Here are some camera phone pics i took on my lunch break, not great, but whatever. If anyone has any special requests, I can try and accommodate with my point and shoot.


































also, i got a seat post to try out


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

just measured a 536 erd, as spec'd on the LB website


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Locksley said:


> Thanks bro ...
> More Stiffness = more Butt pain
> Can I say that I need to pump more pressure on my rear shock to accommodate the stiffness from the rear carbon rim ?
> 
> one more thing - I'm using NN 2.2 now . Will it be too small for the 30mm wide rim ?


No worries. By stiffness, I think most people by stiffness sideways. Wheels don't tend to flex much vertically.

I'm running the same 2.2 NN tires on these rims. They work great and I love the tire profile.

Also, I have a NomadC with a CCDB coil. The bike is PLUSH regardless of the wheel choice :thumbsup:


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

clewttu said:


> just measured a 536 erd, as spec'd on the LB website


Nice. Wanna trade? j/k

I may get a second set after all the back log has cleared up. Donno what I want to do yet. Maybe I'll switch the rims around this time.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

So your rims are unlike the most recently posted cross section, which has the bead shelf rising before the center channel.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

never seen that cross section, latest ive seen is this, and it matches as close as i can tell from the naked eye


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

*Great Customer Service*

After I received my tracking number from Light Bicycles, I had issues using their website (verification code in Chinese) and mentioned it in an email back to "Brian".

Since then, "Brian" has been sending me daily updates on my package's progress via email. (I did manage to navigate to a page on the EMS website with a non-Chinese verification code).

Despite the delay, I've been very happy with the customer service. Hopefully the rims are just as good.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

clewttu said:


> never seen that cross section, latest ive seen is this, and it matches as close as i can tell from the naked eye


So your bead shelf slopes upwards before the center channel?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

nope, maybe ever so slightly
i assume what you are referring to is like a ust rim bed, LB rims have never shown that in the profile


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

ttengineer said:


> Just for reference the ENVE DH rims are 475g a piece. The beefier version of the chinese rim only weighs 400g so these rims are not suitable for DH. I believe they are suitable for AM though as the beefier version rims weigh the same as ENVE AM rims..


Manufacturing process is everything in composites. Comparing weights of two rims from different manufactures as a basis for durability is pure speculation.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

customfab said:


> Manufacturing process is everything in composites. Comparing weights of two rims from different manufactures as a basis for durability is pure speculation.


True but there are not a whole lot of patented or proprietary layouts for carbon rims out there right now so by comparing weights you can get a close idea of how the rims will act.

Consider bike geometry back in the 90's, you could just look at the numbers and know how well the bike will ride. Now, not so much because of all the proprietary suspensions and patented pivot points and what not.


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

ttengineer said:


> True but there are not a whole lot of patented or proprietary layouts for carbon rims out there right now so by comparing weights you can get a close idea of how the rims will act.
> .


Go do some reading on how carbon fiber is made, talk to some composites engineers then come find me and we can have an intelligent conversation.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

customfab said:


> Go do some reading on how carbon fiber is made, talk to some composites engineers then come find me and we can have an intelligent conversation.


From my point of view, I don't think composite frames technology can even be compared to simple composite parts such as rims or stem spacers... Since your rim must act the same way integrally, there is not much "technology" other than finding the lightest and stiffness wave and layout combination. Not like a frame where every inch do a unique action on the bike handling.

As long as the rims are strong and true, you just have to be concerned that they aren't made out of 80% resins and 20% fibers


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

customfab said:


> Go do some reading on how carbon fiber is made, talk to some composites engineers then come find me and we can have an intelligent conversation.


 HA wow what is about the internet that makes people act like complete ****** bags like yourself?

Perhaps I miss spoke. Currently there are only a few ways to manufacture carbon components and they are shared across the industry. Each company may have a specific carbon layup that their engineers prefer but the carbon is all formed in the same way. Thats my point here. Unfortunately I can not post links yet or else i would add documentation


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

ttengineer said:


> HA wow what is about the internet that makes people act like complete ****** bags like yourself?
> 
> Perhaps I miss spoke. Currently there are only a few ways to manufacture carbon components and they are shared across the industry. Each company may have a specific carbon layup that their engineers prefer but the carbon is all formed in the same way. Thats my point here. Unfortunately I can not post links yet or else i would add documentation


Your right, there are only a couple of ways to make a carbon rim. However there are lots of different choices in resin, carbon and few different ways to tool the part. These are the things that distinguish one rim from another. Carbon is an extremely versatile material to work with and trying to judge durability of rims from different manufactures based on weight is just silly.

I'm not trying to be a Dbag but I don't have the time to educate somebody on the basics of composite manufacturing and design.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Got my rims today. To my untrained eye, they look pretty good. I did some quick measurements and came up with numbers identical to the diagram posted by clewttu. I checked overall height, outer width, and distance from lip to lip. I'm not equipped to check ERD.

They're getting laced to an old DT 240 rear hub and a new Chub 20mm front hub as soon as I can find a good local builder.


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## MrNug (Nov 14, 2007)

I ordered 4 rims about 12 days ago and was told there would be a 4 week wait. Going to put two on my AM bike and maybe just a back wheel for the downhill bike first and see how it fares. 

I've asked for the "dh" ones to be as overbuilt as possible. Should be interesting!


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## pmanfred (Nov 7, 2010)

From Nancy this morning:

The heavier rims need to be tested first, we will make 2rims first, then build them into wheels and drop them from the 5th floor.
Then find if the strength is good or not. If the strength is not good, we can not ship them until we improve it.


Thanks,
Nancy


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

lmao


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

pmanfred said:


> From Nancy this morning:
> 
> The heavier rims need to be tested first, we will make 2rims first, then build them into wheels and drop them from the 5th floor.
> Then find if the strength is good or not. If the strength is not good, we can not ship them until we improve it.
> ...


Josh Bender approves.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I hope they don't use the same QC methods as they do for testing.

I though they used the Santa Cruz method of smashing them against a concrete wall instead


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## Gilbasa (Dec 7, 2011)

pmanfred said:


> From Nancy this morning:
> 
> The heavier rims need to be tested first, we will make 2rims first, then build them into wheels and drop them from the 5th floor.
> Then find if the strength is good or not. If the strength is not good, we can not ship them until we improve it.
> ...


Hahaha!

you got to love the honesty in the way they test! But I think its effective.


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## 1soulrider (Jan 21, 2004)

My set of hoops showed up a couple days back. Based on a purely visual inspection, I am impressed. Came in right about 350 grams each. Can't wait to build them up and give them a proper beating.
Will report back with more info as it comes to light.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

They certainly look pretty good. I am excited to hear riding results in the coming weeks.


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

1soulrider said:


> My set of hoops showed up a couple days back. Based on a purely visual inspection, I am impressed. Came in right about 350 grams each. Can't wait to build them up and give them a proper beating.
> Will report back with more info as it comes to light.


those look great 1sr. you've also got a set of Enve wheels, right? will be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the two compare. keep us posted.


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## 1soulrider (Jan 21, 2004)

hardboiled said:


> those look great 1sr. you've also got a set of Enve wheels, right? will be interesting to hear your thoughts on how the two compare. keep us posted.


For sure. I am really interested to see how they compare given the huge price difference between the two.

The Enve are definitely beefier, but are they overkill for am trail riding?


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## Locksley (Sep 17, 2008)

There are 3 finishes 3K, 12k and UD 
Matt and glossy

Which is better, in term like strength and maintenance ?

Cheers


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

So what do you select for weave? Also how do I choose hole pattern? Im planning on putting these on a Mach 5.7 and Im heavy rider. Thanks


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Locksley said:


> There are 3 finishes 3K, 12k and UD
> Matt and glossy
> 
> Which is better, in term like strength and maintenance ?


Normally the finish layer is just a cosmetic layer, so it'll have negligible impact on strength. Glossy CF finishes are easier to maintain than matt. With a gloss finish its much easier to repair the gloss coat if its get gouged or scratched etc. It also hides the scratches and nicks better.


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## Locksley (Sep 17, 2008)

I'm thinking to get UD weave with Glossy finish ... Btw Do I have to worry about UV harming the carbon rim ?


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## PissedOffCil (Oct 18, 2007)

Locksley said:


> I'm thinking to get UD weave with Glossy finish ... Btw Do I have to worry about UV harming the carbon rim ?


You can't be serious?!!!? Worry about the wind exploding them, not UV rays...


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

If they're not clear coated, UV will wreck them.The epoxy will eventually break down. The epoxy doesn't have any Uv blockers as it is always clear coated ,painted or gel coated. The satin finish should be a clear coat as well?


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## Weedling (Feb 28, 2008)

Just ordered a discounted set of 26in carbon rims with hubs off of ebay - couldn't resist the great price (155 GBP Posted) They are 20/24H disc wheels. Just wondering if anyone else here has had any experience building these up. The seller is e_baygoods

Novatech D041SB ,D042SB Hubs
Holes: 20, 24 
Flange To Flange : front 62mm , rear 58.4mm
P.C.D. : 58mm
And the rim ERD is 534.5mm

Planning to use some DT Aero Speed spokes as I believe i already have some in the right size. However the spoke calculator is giving me totally different values to what the Chinese folks say i need :/
Any one have any experience with these particular wheels?

Thanks!


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

Hi guys, for people expecting to get rims I got this message on June 08: "So far, we have shipped out 8pcs 26er rims to customers, they are 3K Matte 32H. Your UD Matte 32H rims might needs a couple of days of manufacturing, as we manufacture rims as the same batch, the next batch would be UD Matte 32H. If they come out, you are the first one we ship rims to."

I got my tracking number on June 22. So I think they are on the UD Matte 32H batch now. I ordered the rims on March 25. People ordeing today will not have to wait that long! I will post pictures and do a comparison to the Flow rims I have right now. The setup will be DT 350 hubs CX-ray spokes and and DT Proloc nipples.


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

I got my rims yesterday so shipping took 7 days. They came in at 353gr vs 370 spec'd which is a nice bonus since I'm more Trail than AM. The complete wheelset should come at 1430gr vs 1665 with the Flows.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

trek551 said:


> I got my rims yesterday so shipping took 7 days. They came in at 353gr vs 370 spec'd which is a nice bonus since I more Trail than AM. The complete wheelset should come at 1430gr vs 1665 with the Flows.


Wow, that is a bonus. My "Version 1" came in at 378 g.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

My UD Matte 32h was just released from customs...should be early next week!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Just got mine in today..came out at 357g and 367g.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

ERD measured out exactly at 536 on both rims.

Waiting on some CX-Rays to come in then I will lace them to a set of CK hubs that I've had on the shelf for some months now!


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## Nels (May 18, 2004)

I got some last week and they were 341 and 350 grams and look perfect!


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Finally had time to bring they rims and hubs in to the bike shop last week to get the built up. Unfortunately, the tech found a crack in the rear hub shell.

DT Swiss was good enough to offer me a crash replacement on my 10 year old Hugi 240. Hopefully the wheels are built up next week.

Great service from DT Swiss and the LBS (Bike Empire in Poway, CA). I'll have to bring in a 6-pack for the tech when I pick up the finished wheels.


----------



## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

BCBlur said:


> Finally had time to bring they rims and hubs in to the bike shop last week to get the built up. Unfortunately, the tech found a crack in the rear hub shell.
> 
> DT Swiss was good enough to offer me a crash replacement on my 10 year old Hugi 240. Hopefully the wheels are built up next week.
> 
> Great service from DT Swiss and the LBS (Bike Empire in Poway, CA). I'll have to bring in a 6-pack for the tech when I pick up the finished wheels.


when you say 'crash replacement', was it free or reduced price? Those rear Hugi 240 hubs had a design flaw - plenty of people (including me) ended up cracking them. I am really surprised that yours lasted this long. Given the solid reputation of Dt Swiss, I'd be expecting them to replace it for free, despite the time lapse.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> when you say 'crash replacement', was it free or reduced price? Those rear Hugi 240 hubs had a design flaw - plenty of people (including me) ended up cracking them. I am really surprised that yours lasted this long. Given the solid reputation of Dt Swiss, I'd be expecting them to replace it for free, despite the time lapse.


For a fee. I got ten years of hard riding out of that hub and I broke it. I can't complain.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

I'm looking for a good spoke to go with on these rims paired with some Hope Pro 2 evos thats not gonna totally break the bank like CX Rays...any ideas? I want to build a strong wheelset (got the beefier version of rims) and plan to see what these rims can handle.

Thanks :thumbsup:


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

FMX_DBC said:


> I'm looking for a good spoke to go with on these rims paired with some Hope Pro 2 evos thats not gonna totally break the bank like CX Rays...any ideas? I want to build a strong wheelset (got the beefier version of rims) and plan to see what these rims can handle.
> 
> Thanks :thumbsup:


How much did the beefier version end up weighing?

DT swiss aerolites are great spokes btw.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

ttengineer said:


> How much did the beefier version end up weighing?
> 
> DT swiss aerolites are great spokes btw.


I havent received them yet but was estimated at 400g. Looking for a good cost/strength/weight ratio on the spokes


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

FMX_DBC said:


> I havent received them yet but was estimated at 400g. Looking for a good cost/strength/weight ratio


Can you post how much they weigh once you receive them? I am curious what the final production weight will be on these beefier ones.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

ttengineer said:


> Can you post how much they weigh once you receive them? I am curious what the final production weight will be on these beefier ones.


Sure. They say that they'll ship them within 2 weeks so I'm just crossing my fingers they don't get pushed back. I'm building up a new bike and hope to have it finished by the end of August. Still waiting on the frame as well lol:skep:


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Just purchased a set of 32 hole UD. Going to lace them to hope pro 2 evo hubs. What size spokes did you guys use for your build?


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Does anyone have a total time from notification of shipment to the time they received the rims? I'm worried I may have to cancel my order due to time constraints


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## argibson (Jul 30, 2010)

About 4-5 days for CA, longer if east. Prob 7 days if easy coast.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Nancy just told me that the wait time UD rims is currently 20 days btw.


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

Bump

Any more building or riding feedback on the latest batch?


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

highaltitude said:


> Bump
> 
> Any more building or riding feedback on the latest batch?


I will compare them to my Flows I had previously.

Building:The rim is stiffer.Tension in the spokes is brought up much quicker. They are easier to true. They are gentler on the nipples pretty much like rims with eyelets. I have the same spokes so ERD is a match.

Inflating tires: The raised portion of the beads is further away from the center channel which I think would lead to a harder time inflating tubeless with a floor pump but I did not try. Seating the bead stretches the tire more. To be cautious I deflated , used soap but still pumped more air to pop the beads for a tubed and tubeless mounting.

Riding: Flows stiffness (even more) + width at Crests (353gr)weight? What more can I say?They are very addicting. They are on my 2011 Trance X1. Yesterday I did a race on my Blur XCc with Ztr Race wheels and it was not fun at all! I will have to change the fork to a 15mm axle and lace a pair of 650b Carbon rims from the same place during the winter to bring back the fun on the Blur.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Are you running tubeless? Rim strip or just yellow tape?



trek551 said:


> I will compare them to my Flows I had previously.
> 
> Building:The rim is stiffer.Tension in the spokes is brought up much quicker. They are easier to true. They are gentler on the nipples pretty much like rims with eyelets. I have the same spokes so ERD is a match.
> 
> ...


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

Front is tubed for now. Rear is Tubeless with yellow tape with a Racing Ralph 2.4 TR + Stans juice. I just got my pair of Nobby Nic 2.35 TR so front will be tubeless too. I will post how well it seated. 

I used the same 25mm tape as for the Flows.


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## jeffj (Jan 13, 2004)

trek551 said:


> I will compare them to my Flows I had previously.
> 
> Building:The rim is stiffer.Tension in the spokes is brought up much quicker. They are easier to true. They are gentler on the nipples pretty much like rims with eyelets. I have the same spokes so ERD is a match.
> 
> ...


I'm building up a set of 29" and have a few questions:

Did you use anything different to lube the nipple/nipple seat interface when building these wheels?

Did you find anything else 'different' about building a wheelset with carbon rims?

And, is there a stated/published tension recommendation or limit.


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

jeffj said:


> I'm building up a set of 29" and have a few questions:
> 
> Did you use anything different to lube the nipple/nipple seat interface when building these wheels?
> 
> ...


Disclaimer: I am not a professionnal wheelbuilder. I build my own wheels for fun the "Sheldon Brown way". I built wheels with Crest rims , Flows, and own Ztr Race wheels so I know how well theses rims seat a tire.

No lube as these rims are very gentle on nipples. I always used Proloc nipples.
The tension goes up faster. Half turns become 1/4 turns for tension. The rim is so stiff that big variations in tension will be hidden as you will notice less out of true. Overall a much faster build and I believe more even tension than my previous builds.

Comments about the beads:

1) they show less tire than Flows (1st gen BST) about 1-2mm and a lot less than Crests (2nd gen BST) by 3-4mm. I don't plan to use anything less than a 2.25 tire so it's ok for me.

2) they don't seat as well as BST beads. The tire unseats when I deflate them. Not so on the Crests combined with regular bead tires. I used Flows tubeless at 10 -14 psi during winter on the snow with no issues.

3) My new 2.35 Nobby Nic seated at 42-44psi. I did not use soap but my Racing Ralph 2.4 seated at the same pressure. I usually seat tires at 30 psi with Flows or Crests.

The 2.35 have 57mm case width on theses rims. The 2.4 have 59mm.

I hope this helps.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Just got a confirmation email that my rims have shipped. on June 8th, I was originally told by Brian that it would be 3weeks but ended up being 5weeks.

Hopefully, they don't get held up at Customs and I can possibly have them by the end of next week.


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## sonypete (Jun 15, 2008)

Guys,
I searched every page for a possible link to these Bontrager Rhythm strips that are being referred to and nothing. When searching via google shopping I get nothing relevant for "Bontrager Rhythm strip". I get Stan's notube stuff and obviously Bontrager Rim stuff.

None of the normal place I order from list it either. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.

- Pete


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

sonypete said:


> Guys,
> I searched every page for a possible link to these Bontrager Rhythm strips that are being referred to and nothing. When searching via google shopping I get nothing relevant for "Bontrager Rhythm strip". I get Stan's notube stuff and obviously Bontrager Rim stuff.
> 
> None of the normal place I order from list it either. Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.
> ...


 they are not available from online retailers, gotta get them from a trek dealer.

http://bontrager.com/model/02566

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

Online purchasing here
Bontrager Tubeless Replacement Parts - Essentials -Trek Store


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Finished lacing my new rear wheel yesterday! 
Hub: mtb252 48POE
Rim: Light Bicycle wide 26" carbon
Spokes: DT Swiss Aerolite 264mm / 266mm
Nipples: aluminium 
Total weight assembled: 735grams. + 1 layer Gorilla tape: 755 grams

Went for a short (50 minutes) ride after test ( my first time building a wheel ) after installing a latex tube, a Conti Race King 2.2 Protection ( my favorite tire ) and put back my 19t cog. Rode a classic rooty/rocky Quebec trail and just went like if I was riding my Evil Sovereign, not being cautious. Tons of fun!!! Now, I have to build my front wheel. Sub 1400gr wheelset that can take a (relative) beating ( I'm 135lbs) is pretty good!!!


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## sonypete (Jun 15, 2008)

Thanks 'size and clewttu. Shall I go with symetrical or asymtrical? I seeguys in the 29er version of this thread getting asymetricl, but that does not compute in my head?!

- Pete


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## sonypete (Jun 15, 2008)

Johnnydrz how was the tire fit(tightness) with gorilla tape and the race king?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

sonypete said:


> Thanks 'size and clewttu. Shall I go with symetrical or asymtrical? I seeguys in the 29er version of this thread getting asymetricl, but that does not compute in my head?!
> 
> - Pete


you want symmetrical, its what everyone is running


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I haven't set it up tubeless yet, I just had no time yesterday. But, with a latex tube, I had to soap up the bead for the tire to seat properly. Without soap, I stopped pumping at about 45psi. So I would think that it will probably be just fine when I go tubeless. Can't wait to go full tubeless with my SuperSonic Race Kings !!!


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Forgot to mention, I rode with about 23psi in my rear tire yesterday.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Just got word that my rims are on their way to me from China! Estimated time 4 days


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Johnnydrz said:


> Finished lacing my new rear wheel yesterday!
> Hub: mtb252 48POE
> Rim: Light Bicycle wide 26" carbon
> Spokes: DT Swiss Aerolite 264mm / 266mm
> ...


Hey, looks like you're in the same area as mine. I'll get back in Montreal after the summer, and I'd be very interested if we could meet up to check out those wheels. And perhaps go for a ride together


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

David C said:


> Hey, looks like you're in the same area as mine. I'll get back in Montreal after the summer, and I'd be very interested if we could meet up to check out those wheels. And perhaps go for a ride together


Sure!

I'll be somewhere in Colorado during September but back to my local trails in October!

Johnnydrz


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## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

sbrdude1 said:


> I'll post the ERD when I get them.


I forgot, did you get the wide 29er rims? If so, what ERD did you come up with?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

So Bonty Rhythm tubeless symmetric is the correct item?

Has anybody tried using just plain ol' gorilla tape like Enve does?


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Finished lacing the front wheel yesterday
Hub: mtb162
Rim: Light Bicycle wide 26" carbon
Spokes: DT Swiss Aerolite 264mm / 266mm
Nipples: aluminium 
Total weight assembled: 653grams. + 1 layer Gorilla tape: 673 grams

Both wheels total weight: 1388gr.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

anthonylokrn said:


> So Bonty Rhythm tubeless symmetric is the correct item?
> 
> Has anybody tried using just plain ol' gorilla tape like Enve does?


I would also like some confirmation on this. Should be getting mine at the end of the week and need to know if I should get the bontrager rhythm strips or what else to use.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

In the 29er thread most people are using yellow tape or rhythm strips successfully, don't see why you couldn't get gorilla tape to work if that's what you want to do


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

It sounds like the rhythm strips give the most support to the bead for running tubeless, right?


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

I think people are using the rhythm strip because the carbon rim does not have a true UST profile and by adding the rhythm rim strip it adds that small internal lip to help keep the bead seated. The weight of these rims in my opinion justifies using the rhythm rim strip because even by adding them they will still be as light or lighter than most XC race wheel sets. Plus you get a little added protection from the bead unseating if you run low PSI. I see that as a win win but true weight weenies might disagree.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

Why don’t you guys just use a 18" inner tube, (ghetto tubeless)
After you cut the extra rubber from the sides, it don’t weight too much.
and for the long term, it holds air better. and don burp at all.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

ttengineer said:


> I think people are using the rhythm strip because the carbon rim does not have a true UST profile and by adding the rhythm rim strip it adds that small internal lip to help keep the bead seated. The weight of these rims in my opinion justifies using the rhythm rim strip because even by adding them they will still be as light or lighter than most XC race wheel sets. Plus you get a little added protection from the bead unseating if you run low PSI. I see that as a win win but true weight weenies might disagree.


Im not really a weight weenie and Id rather sacrifice a small amount of weight for reliability and support. I have never run below 29 psi on purpose & like to ride aggressively. Last thing I want to do is blow the bead off on a jump or turn. I'm definitely leaning toward the rhythm strip


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

FMX_DBC said:


> Im not really a weight weenie and Id rather sacrifice a small amount of weight for reliability and support. I have never run below 29 psi on purpose & like to ride aggressively. Last thing I want to do is blow the bead off on a jump or turn. I'm definitely leaning toward the rhythm strip


You and I my friend are on the same page. Ive blown a bead at the bottom of a jump and its not so much fun. Granted I was running 2.35 kenda nevagals on mavic SLR's which is not advisable but nevertheless I think the weight penalty for the rhythm strip (and we are talking grams here not ounces) is a suitable sacrifice for the added performance.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

agreed


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

For those of you who have tried tracking your package, have you found the EMS site to be up to date?
Got my confirmation but when I check the tracking, it still shows it in China.

I have learned that other shipping companies don't necessarily update the status accurately or live. I am just hoping to get them before I leave on a bike trip next week and like a kid at christmas, want my new toys asap.

Thanks


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

after a couple of days, it should hit customs, for US customers once it gets to San Francisco you can use the EMS tracking number on the USPS site for tracking after that (EMS only shows China for me as well)...not sure if you can do the same in Canada


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Ours are most likely in the same package waiting to be separated stateside. Mine are still showing up in China also but I've heard shipping is pretty quick. Brian Xia estimated 4 days to me


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

I got my shipment confirmation email saturday morning for my second set, they are already here in town this morning, will prob be ready for pick up at the post office tomorrow (has to be signed for)


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

So they dont deliver them to the specified address?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

They do, but if no one is there to sign, they wont just leave them
they wouldnt even leave at my apartment office last time


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

clewttu said:


> after a couple of days, it should hit customs, for US customers once it gets to San Francisco you can use the EMS tracking number on the USPS site for tracking after that (EMS only shows China for me as well)...not sure if you can do the same in Canada


You are correct, sir. Thanks for the info


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

I received a EMS tracking number as well EE.......CN, however it does not come up as valid on the EMS site. Any ideas? I received notice yesterday, so can I expect perhaps (4-7 days) delivery to Nevada before I hear from USPS, signature required?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

try this link, the one they send in the email isnt correct (at least mine wasnt)
both my sets have/will arrived in 4 days max once posted from China, it takes a day or 2 before you can track via usps but that will indicate much better when to expect them


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

no luck with that link either. Perhaps it is new in the system. Will try again tonight. The EMS number I was sent EE.. (plus 10 digits).. CN Does this sound right? Any ideas on the typical shipping time to West coast?


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

may not be in the system yet, my number is EE695589365CN


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

buggymancan said:


> The EMS number I was sent EE.. (plus 10 digits).. CN Does this sound right?


The last two digits normally belong to the Country of origin...

US - USA
MX - Mexico
DE - Deutschland
CN - China

etc...


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## Gilbasa (Dec 7, 2011)

Has anybody ordered their 26" narrow mountain bike rims? the ones that weigh 330 grams? They seem to be very narrow at only 17.8 mm on the inner width? If any body has i was wondering how they are. and If you can give me any feedback. I want to order a set for my brother who does a lot of XC riding and think those would be a better choice. Please help, not sure if they are good or not?

Thanks


----------



## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

You can put those tracking numbers in the normal USPS website.


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## Gilbasa (Dec 7, 2011)

lRaphl said:


> I ordered yesterday a pair of 26" carbon rims (not the wide version) and today I got this ETA from Nancy:
> 
> I must tell that I never had such a quick reply and support from any online company in the past. Nancy is answering me in less than 10 minutes each time I'm sending. Now lets hope it will really be 8 days...


did you get your narrow rims yet? I'm thinking of ordering some but want to know how you like then. I want them for my brother who mostly does XC type riding. Any input would be helpful? Thanks


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## cosmoworks (Jan 22, 2008)

While I haven't followed this thread in its entirety, the posts I have read have been positive. Because of that, I turned my buddy onto these who received his a few weeks ago, and had them built up by his local shop. His first rides on them were this weekend, where he did 5 shuttled runs on what I would consider all-mountain trails (if you're familiar with riding in Brianhead Utah, the trails were Blow-Hard, Bunker Creek, and Dark Hollow).

Upon cleaning his bike after riding, he found that both of his rims were cracked. His setup was using tubes, 35 psi front and rear tire pressure (kenda Excavator folding tires), 175 pounds fully geared up rider weight, 6" travel AM bike. I'd say he's your typical AM rider who's not afraid to ride technical sections, but definitely not at DH break-neck speeds.

Front rim:








Rear rim:
















I haven't seen any other posts showing failures, but I thought I'd post his up for another data point. Seems like some people are riding these aggressively and having no issues. I have a set on order for myself, so I'll be testing these as well, but I definitely ride more aggressively than my friend does, which has me somewhat worried.

After seeing this, I asked Nancy to build mine up in the "stronger" version, to which she tells me "not to worry". My buddy is currently working with light-bicycles to see what they can do for a resolution. So far they seem to be willing to work with him. I'll update with other posts as I know.


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## Gilbasa (Dec 7, 2011)

cosmoworks said:


> While I haven't followed this thread in its entirety, the posts I have read have been positive. Because of that, I turned my buddy onto these who received his a few weeks ago, and had them built up by his local shop. His first rides on them were this weekend, where he did 5 shuttled runs on what I would consider all-mountain trails (if you're familiar with riding in Brianhead Utah, the trails were Blow-Hard, Bunker Creek, and Dark Hollow).
> 
> Upon cleaning his bike after riding, he found that both of his rims were cracked. His setup was using tubes, 35 psi front and rear tire pressure (kenda Excavator folding tires), 175 pounds fully geared up rider weight, 6" travel AM bike. I'd say he's your typical AM rider who's not afraid to ride technical sections, but definitely not at DH break-neck speeds.
> 
> ...


Looks like an impact crack! was he running a low PSI?


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

cosmoworks said:


> While I haven't followed this thread in its entirety, the posts I have read have been positive. Because of that, I turned my buddy onto these who received his a few weeks ago, and had them built up by his local shop. His first rides on them were this weekend, where he did 5 shuttled runs on what I would consider all-mountain trails (if you're familiar with riding in Brianhead Utah, the trails were Blow-Hard, Bunker Creek, and Dark Hollow).
> 
> Upon cleaning his bike after riding, he found that both of his rims were cracked. His setup was using tubes, 35 psi front and rear tire pressure (kenda Excavator folding tires), 175 pounds fully geared up rider weight, 6" travel AM bike. I'd say he's your typical AM rider who's not afraid to ride technical sections, but definitely not at DH break-neck speeds.
> 
> ...


Please do keep us updated. Depending on how light bicycles handles his case will push me one way or the other on buying a set of these rims. I do plan on buying the "beefier" version though.

It wouldnt be that big of a deal if he had ridden these for a year or more b/c the price is so low, but only after one ride I have to admit I am eager to hear how this turns out.


----------



## Simplemind (Jul 17, 2006)

cosmoworks said:


> While I haven't followed this thread in its entirety, the posts I have read have been positive. Because of that, I turned my buddy onto these who received his a few weeks ago, and had them built up by his local shop. His first rides on them were this weekend, where he did 5 shuttled runs on what I would consider all-mountain trails (if you're familiar with riding in Brianhead Utah, the trails were Blow-Hard, Bunker Creek, and Dark Hollow).
> 
> Upon cleaning his bike after riding, he found that both of his rims were cracked. His setup was using tubes, 35 psi front and rear tire pressure (kenda Excavator folding tires), 175 pounds fully geared up rider weight, 6" travel AM bike. I'd say he's your typical AM rider who's not afraid to ride technical sections, but definitely not at DH break-neck speeds.
> 
> ...


This causes a lot of concern for my riding as well. These are the first "catastrophic" riding failures (not over pressurized) I've seen posted here as well. Definately cause for concern, however these look to be direct hits that you would get in hitting something like a square edge rock ledge. I'm assuming he had NO pinch flats???


----------



## David C (May 25, 2011)

I also feel like those are more a result of direct impact rather than fatigue. You also said he was doing AM riding, but shuttle trip or lift ? Sounds more like mini DH to me.


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

Gilbasa said:


> Has anybody ordered their 26" narrow mountain bike rims? the ones that weigh 330 grams? They seem to be very narrow at only 17.8 mm on the inner width? If any body has i was wondering how they are. and If you can give me any feedback. I want to order a set for my brother who does a lot of XC riding and think those would be a better choice. Please help, not sure if they are good or not?
> 
> Thanks


I ordered 2 of the XC version and the rear wheel is now built and have been used for around 250Km. So far, no problems! Weight was right on 330g. Inner width was 17.8mm for one rim and 17.5mm for the other. Finish was UD / Clear and looks ok. You can see the UD finish isn't perfect but as soon as there is some dust on it you can't really tell and frankly I don't care. I'm currently running it with tube and 25psi (I'm 145lbs) on my Anthem and really like it. I use a Race King SS 2.0 on it and would not be afraid to use a X-King 2.2 since it's as wide as my old Michelin XC Dry^2 that I tried on it without a single problem.

So to sum up, the rear wheel was pretty easy to build up and it's really stiff for the 28h wheel. A lot more stiff than my previous WTB Laser Disc XC and Crank Brother Cobalt XC wheelsets. I used Sapim Laser spokes and my old WTB Laserdisc Light hubs (upgraded with ceramic bearings) for the build.

The front wheel is under construction but not finished yet.

Unless your brother has the habit of hitting his rims everywhere he can, I would say these rims are great for the price you pay.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Has anyone built the 26" version (wider rim) with I-9 straight pull spokes? the I-9 Xc rims and Stans Race/ 355 all have an ERD of about 541. I am wondering if the Carbon rim is true to the stated ERD of 536 and if this 5mm difference is too much to allow me to re-lace with my existing I9 straight pull spokes?


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## cosmoworks (Jan 22, 2008)

Gilbasa said:


> Looks like an impact crack! was he running a low PSI?


Depends on your definition of "low". He was running 35 psi front and back.



ttengineer said:


> Please do keep us updated. Depending on how light bicycles handles his case will push me one way or the other on buying a set of these rims. I do plan on buying the "beefier" version though.
> 
> It wouldnt be that big of a deal if he had ridden these for a year or more b/c the price is so low, but only after one ride I have to admit I am eager to hear how this turns out.


Exactly my thoughts as well. Simply just too short of a time (5 rides) for this to happen. Will post back when he gets an update.



Simplemind said:


> This causes a lot of concern for my riding as well. These are the first "catastrophic" riding failures (not over pressurized) I've seen posted here as well. Definately cause for concern, however these look to be direct hits that you would get in hitting something like a square edge rock ledge. I'm assuming he had NO pinch flats???


I wouldn't call it catastrophic, as he rode out just fine. He didn't even notice the cracks until he was cleaning his bike. He had zero pinch flats while riding. The trails do have sections of rocky terrain with square edged rocks, that I'd easily say falls under the category of "all mountain" riding. Anyone else who's familiar with the trails can chime in.



David C said:


> I also feel like those are more a result of direct impact rather than fatigue. You also said he was doing AM riding, but shuttle trip or lift ? Sounds more like mini DH to me.


We shuttled to the top of each trail head. There's a lift resort nearby, but these are the local trails in the area, and not the ski resort. At 11,000' elevation, we opted for shuttling them by vehicles. Even with the shuttle, there are climbing sections throughout, just with net down.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

buggymancan said:


> Has anyone built the 26" version (wider rim) with I-9 straight pull spokes? the I-9 Xc rims and Stans Race/ 355 all have an ERD of about 541. I am wondering if the Carbon rim is true to the stated ERD of 536 and if this 5mm difference is too much to allow me to re-lace with my existing I9 straight pull spokes?


There was someone who built these rims onto i9 spokes/hubs, think they were the wide rims. It is probably in this thread. Have a look. They were coming from similar rims to you (maybe crests, same erd as the rims you have). Weirdly, the poster came up with an erd for the carbon rim to be much less than 536. Despite this, he still got the spokes wound in enough to work. See the photos though - I dunno how many threads on those spokes/hub are holding the wheel together. You'd hate to damage the threads on that hub.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> There was someone who built these rims onto i9 spokes/hubs, think they were the wide rims. It is probably in this thread. Have a look. They were coming from similar rims to you (maybe crests, same erd as the rims you have). Weirdly, the poster came up with an erd for the carbon rim to be much less than 536. Despite this, he still got the spokes wound in enough to work. See the photos though - I dunno how many threads on those spokes/hub are holding the wheel together. You'd hate to damage the threads on that hub.


yep, it was in this thread. search for posts by macming.

there is a discussion satrting at post 142 about the low erd:
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/26in-chinese-carbon-all-mountain-rim-769498-6.html#post9224158

there is a photo of the spoke/hub at post 245:
http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/26in-chinese-carbon-all-mountain-rim-769498-10.html#post9339892


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Got mine last night. 4 days shipping from China to Calgary, just like he predicted.

Weighed them and they are bang on at 370g each with the matte/3k. Really pumped now. Can't wait to get them built up and test ride them.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Still waiting on mine. The tracking has been showing China for a few days now. I wonder if they've made it into the US yet. I recall a comment that the tracking was slow compared to actual shipping


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Still waiting on mine. The tracking has been showing China for a few days now. I wonder if they've made it into the US yet. I recall a comment that the tracking was slow compared to actual shipping


track it at USPS if you havent already


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

clewttu said:


> track it at USPS if you havent already


I get the same info mentioning China still


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Hello. Can you tell me how AM these rims are?. Forgive my ignorance please
650B MTB carbon rim / 650B mountain carbon rim only 20mm clincher rim width 30mm | eBay


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## dhbomber (Nov 7, 2006)

These rims are nice, can someone post pictures of matte or gloss UD finish please


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

panzer103 said:


> Hello. Can you tell me how AM these rims are?. Forgive my ignorance please
> 650B MTB carbon rim / 650B mountain carbon rim only 20mm clincher rim width 30mm | eBay


Judging by the weight of those rims I would not consider them to be AM at all. They are advertised as weighing about the same as the light-bicycle AM rims that are being discussed in this thread and those are 26". The ones you are asking about are 27.5", so i would consider them to be a XC/Trail rims. But this is all assumption based on the weight, this all could change if someone has experience with them. Start a new thread and ask if anyone has any experience with them.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

FMX_DBC said:


> I get the same info mentioning China still


Well the tracking is now showing that it was scanned in NY this morning. This will have been 4 days since I received the tracking number. Not really sure why it went the long way across the pond. I have everything else I need, just waiting on these damn rims. :madman:


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

My rim shipment tracking also shows China Sorting and Dispatch center (Ziamen) for (3) days now, so I am hoping that the USPS tracking is updated by Monday showing US routing.


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## Gilbasa (Dec 7, 2011)

cosmoworks said:


> Depends on your definition of "low". He was running 35 psi front and back.
> 
> Hmmm? Somethings not right! He must have bashed something really hard to bottom out a 35 psi tire, case the rim and crack it! He was running tubes and didn't have a pinch flat? Sounds like he either had low tire pressure or he was cliff jumping!


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## cosmoworks (Jan 22, 2008)

Gilbasa said:


> He was running tubes and didn't have a pinch flat? Sounds like he either had low tire pressure or he was cliff jumping!


No pinch flats. And I assure you, no cliff jumping was involved. 



ttengineer said:


> Please do keep us updated. Depending on how light bicycles handles his case will push me one way or the other on buying a set of these rims. I do plan on buying the "beefier" version though.


It sounds like he's paying for one rim at a reduced price, and getting the other warrantied. He's asked that the replacements be built up with more reinforcement.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

cosmoworks said:


> Upon cleaning his bike after riding, he found that both of his rims were cracked. His setup was using tubes, 35 psi front and rear tire pressure (kenda Excavator folding tires), 175 pounds fully geared up rider weight, 6" travel AM bike. I'd say he's your typical AM rider who's not afraid to ride technical sections, but definitely not at DH break-neck speeds.


Respectfully, I think his pressure gauge is off. I just built these wheels up today, and I'm going to bash the piss out of them tomorrow, to make sure they hold up for race day. They are SOOO stiff I can't wait for the first ride. I am 200lbs RTR, and I don't see any issues arising, though I will report for sure either way.

IMO the crack/fracture pictures shown, indicates direct sidewall flattening, where the rock created a stress point. As long as the tire has enough air pressure, matching rider weight to riding style, I can't see that happening. That looks like the same impact that would bend the bead lip on a std Aluminum rim. If you can't monitor your pressures enough to prevent rim dents, I don't think carbon rims are for you. The same force that would dent a std Aluminum rim, will most likely be permanent failure on a carbon rim.

That said, I could see blowing through 35psi on the rear MAYBE at 175lbs, but never enough on the front to do that to a rim. Something has to be incorrect with teh PSI info.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> Well the tracking is now showing that it was scanned in NY this morning. This will have been 4 days since I received the tracking number. Not really sure why it went the long way across the pond. I have everything else I need, just waiting on these damn rims. :madman:


Not sure when you ordered, but I had "everything else I needed" for 3 months before my rims came in. Could always be worse. 4 days to hit the US is not bad at all just so you know.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Just finished building my blacked out wheelset. Built up just as easy as the 50mm carbon clinchers I got from Nancy.

I'll post pictures tomorrow when I get the chance..too tired now. Going to have to run out to purchase the bontrager tubeless strip tomorrow as well.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

cosmoworks said:


> No pinch flats. And I assure you, no cliff jumping was involved.
> 
> It sounds like he's paying for one rim at a reduced price, and getting the other warrantied. He's asked that the replacements be built up with more reinforcement.


Ok so thats not so bad. I don't see why they would not warranty both but at least they are doing something.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

thuren said:


> Respectfully, I think his pressure gauge is off. I just built these wheels up today, and I'm going to bash the piss out of them tomorrow, to make sure they hold up for race day. They are SOOO stiff I can't wait for the first rid.


Let us know how they do.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

*Done*

Had my rims built up by a local shop here on Thurs and went for a ride yesterday.

I built them to CK and the total weight was 1780 g (rims, spokes, nipples, valve stems and two layers of yellow tape.) They are exactly 200 g less than my Flows on CK with exact same.

Guess I could have gotten the overall package even lower had I gone for AC hubs instead but I love my CK's.

Set up with tubeless was pretty easy. Used a compressor and the beads seated at about 35psi. No leaks anywhere thus far.

My first ride so far was good. They seemed lighter and bounced around a little more than I am used to but it could also have been due to the higher psi I was using at around 30 ( i have been running 25psi in my flows with great success this year)

I am off for a 4 day ride vacation into the interior British Columbia tomorrow so that will be a good test.

I love the look of them, as they match my Mojo HD nicely.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Gunnar-man said:


> Had my rims built up by a local shop here on Thurs and went for a ride yesterday.
> 
> I built them to CK and the total weight was 1780 g (rims, spokes, nipples, valve stems and two layers of yellow tape.) They are exactly 200 g less than my Flows on CK with exact same.
> 
> ...


I am a little surprised at the weight of yours, I guess those CK hubs are a little heavier than I thought. What spokes did you use?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Here's mine:
-UD Matte 32h
-CX-Ray and Sapim Polyax Alu nips
-Bontrager strip with Stans tubeless valve valve.

*Weight includes tubeless strip and valve.
Front wheel: 762g
Rear wheel: 890g
Total weight: 1652g

Overall, slightly heavier than the Hope Hoops/Crest that I had previously.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

ttengineer said:


> I am a little surprised at the weight of yours, I guess those CK hubs are a little heavier than I thought. What spokes did you use?


They ar DT Swiss straight gauge, as recommended by the shop. I don't know enough about spokes to make an educated guess as to what I should be using for my riding around here in Kananaskis/Rockies.

When I was comparing the CK's and ACs it was about 200g difference between the front and rear so it would have been substantial drop over all.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Finally got my wheels back from the builder.

Front hub is a Chub 20mm. Rear is a DT 240S w/ 10mm endcaps and 36pt star ratchets. DT double butted spokes and brass nipples. The builder said they came in right around 1500 grams, but I don't have a scale that I can verify that with. Overall, he said that they build up very stiff but took a little work to get true.

My Bontrager rim strips should be delivered tomorrow. First ride will be Wednesday with the after work crew.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Anthonylokrn - Gorgeous wheels! Standard weight rims? LD or SD CK Hub up front?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

seleniak said:


> Anthonylokrn - Gorgeous wheels! Standard weight rims? LD or SD CK Hub up front?


That's a 20mm axle, so ld hub


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## andyb721 (Aug 7, 2006)

anthonylokrn said:


> Here's mine:
> -UD Matte 32h
> -CX-Ray and Sapim Polyax Alu nips
> -Bontrager strip with Stans tubeless valve valve.
> ...


Loving those murdered out wheels! Just what I am going to do, matte black with black spokes and nips! Nice wheels man!


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## andyb721 (Aug 7, 2006)

Forgive me if this has been answered already—I didn't see it posted earlier. Their website does not seem to explain the difference between the UD, 3K and 12K weaves. Can someone either post me links to where there is info on this, or fill me in?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

macming said:


> That's a 20mm axle, so ld hub


Exactly. :thumbsup:

20mm front and 142x12mm rear.



andyb721 said:


> Loving those murdered out wheels! Just what I am going to do, matte black with black spokes and nips! Nice wheels man!


Thanks! Bad thing is that I can't get the Maxxis Ikon/Ardent tires to seat with a floor pump...going to have to fire up the compressor tomorrow.

I used Sapim 12mm nips on the build and 258mm spokes front and rear. It was the perfect length for both sides on the front and also the rear DS. For the rear NDS, 258mm is exposing ~1mm thread, so probably best to go with 260mm or 259mm (if you can find it) for the rear NDS.



andyb721 said:


> Forgive me if this has been answered already-I didn't see it posted earlier. Their website does not seem to explain the difference between the UD, 3K and 12K weaves. Can someone either post me links to where there is info on this, or fill me in?


UD, 3k, and 12k weaves are the outlook. I'm not a big fan of 12k though...makes it look old school.

3K,12K,UD Weave Differences


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## dhbomber (Nov 7, 2006)

anthonylokrn said:


> Here's mine:
> -UD Matte 32h
> -CX-Ray and Sapim Polyax Alu nips
> -Bontrager strip with Stans tubeless valve valve.
> ...


YES!!! These look killer!!!!!!  
Although I'm leaning more on the 3k weave in Matte...Weight not too shabby for all mountain/trail wheels! :thumbsup:


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

I might have mentionned this before, but mine came out at *1388gr* for the pair. 
-Wide rim (26")
-MTB252 (rear) and MTB162 (front)
-spokes: DT SWISS Aerolite 264mm + nipples
-no valve, no tape.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Just received my (2) pair of 26" AM 3k nude Carbon Rims. Hand delivered to my office by the Postmaster, after leaving China last Thursday (4) days form China to Tahoe (via SF). Amazing! The workmanship fit and finish looks first rate! Just handling them, it is obvious that the lateral stiffness is off the chart when contrasted to a comparable alloy rim. I believe that the main benefit of the carbon will be increased lateral stiffness/ less wheel deflection and better vibration dampening at the same weight as a Stan's Alloy rim. What a great technological age we live in! Bikes just keep getting faster, lighter, stiffer (as i get older and softer). Every edge helps. Now off to the wheel builder! Ride report to follow


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## guppie (Jan 26, 2004)

anthonylokrn said:


> Here's mine:
> -UD Matte 32h
> -CX-Ray and Sapim Polyax Alu nips
> -Bontrager strip with Stans tubeless valve valve.
> ...


Post a pic of your rig built up with the wheels. All in all, how much did the wheelset set you back?


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Wouldn't this be an easier route? Already laced up to 240s hubs with all the parts to convert. I would think one would have a little more faith in a Reynolds rim rather than a "chinese" brand. Not that the "chinese" ones are bad.

REYNOLDS XC CARBON 26" MOUNTAIN BIKE WHEELSET 6 BOLT DISC TUBELESS SHIMANO NEW | eBay


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

BXCc said:


> Wouldn't this be an easier route? Already laced up to 240s hubs with all the parts to convert. I would think one would have a little more faith in a Reynolds rim rather than a "chinese" brand. Not that the "chinese" ones are bad.
> 
> REYNOLDS XC CARBON 26" MOUNTAIN BIKE WHEELSET 6 BOLT DISC TUBELESS SHIMANO NEW | eBay


they cost 2-3x as much dependent on component selection, have reynolds hubs, and arent as wide. but you have a bit more piece of mind should they fail.
those things considered, id rather have the chinese rims, ymmv


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

The current model Reynolds do have a different hub. The ones linked are last years which have a rebranded 240s. I was looking at these chinese rims too. $300 just for the rims shipped. One rear 240s hub is roughly $400. Not to stir the pot but how do you figure $599 plus $35 shipping is 2-3x more? Granted you would have to win the auction at that price or close to it. And I do realize some people would rather choose there own hub. But IMO this is a good option with something that has a little more R&D behind it. Just thought I would share.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

they will not sell 599 (if they do then its a heck of a deal) so basing anything off that price is pointless, msrp is 1900, i found them on sale for 1600....so thats where the 2-3 times came from


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## BXCc (May 31, 2012)

Reynolds MTN C Carbon Clincher Mountain Wheelset 26" | eBay


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

well, if thats the case, like i said, heck of a deal


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

guppie said:


> Post a pic of your rig built up with the wheels. All in all, how much did the wheelset set you back?


I should have some pictures later today hopefully. Cost wise it was right around $1k.

$330 - Light-Bicycle UD Matte
$120 - (60) 258mm CX-Ray J-Bend...I had a few 258mm leftover from my road wheelset.
$525 - Chris King ISO 20mm / 142x12mm
$30 - Sapim Polyax Alu 12mm nipples

Self built so no labor cost.

32h 3-cross all around.


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## cosmoworks (Jan 22, 2008)

ttengineer said:


> Ok so thats not so bad. I don't see why they would not warranty both but at least they are doing something.


My friend made the mistake of asking, "How much will it cost to replace my front cracked rim"? It was only after he paid the reduced price for front, that he realized the rear was cracked too - which he insisted they warranty in full. I'm not sure how they would have responded if he asked them to warranty both from the start.

But so far they have been very eager and willing to work with him, which is definitely a plus. I have my set coming soon (reinforced ones), and we're going to take some comparison measurements of the rim's sidewall to see if there's a difference.


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## andyb721 (Aug 7, 2006)

anthonylokrn said:


> Exactly. :thumbsup:
> 
> I used Sapim 12mm nips on the build and 258mm spokes front and rear. It was the perfect length for both sides on the front and also the rear DS. For the rear NDS, 258mm is exposing ~1mm thread, so probably best to go with 260mm or 259mm (if you can find it) for the rear NDS.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the info! I think I will build mine with Hope Evo 2's. I am guessing the spoke length will be fairly similar, but will double check it all when the time comes-cant' wait!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Tires are finally fully seated, took a little bit more work than the Crest I had previously. The beads would not stay seated using a tube and floor pump, I had to resort to a compressor and lots of soap. Beads finally popped in at around 30 psi.

Mounted the cassette and rotors as well. Going to let it sit for the night and give it a test ride tomorrow.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

andyb721 said:


> Thanks for the info! I think I will build mine with Hope Evo 2's. I am guessing the spoke length will be fairly similar, but will double check it all when the time comes-cant' wait!


Received my rims yesterday & took them straight to the shop after work. Red nips & red Hope Evo 2s. Using 260mm DT Swiss Comp spokes. Should have them back later today!


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

My buddy at the bike shop mentioned possibly doing carbon prep for the nipples. Is anyone having to do this on their rims? I thought I read that it wasn't completely necessary but I want to make sure.
Thanks


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Rim strips came in last night and I mounted up the tires, cassette, and rotors. The tires seated very easily with the rim strips (I always use a compressor).

Also, I used some NoTubes valves with the Bonty rim strips and they sealed well, but are a little short. It shouldn't be an issue, they just look a little odd and the pump doesn't hold the valves super well.



BCBlur said:


> Finally got my wheels back from the builder.
> 
> Front hub is a Chub 20mm. Rear is a DT 240S w/ 10mm endcaps and 36pt star ratchets. DT double butted spokes and brass nipples. The builder said they came in right around 1500 grams, but I don't have a scale that I can verify that with. Overall, he said that they build up very stiff but took a little work to get true.
> 
> My Bontrager rim strips should be delivered tomorrow. First ride will be Wednesday with the after work crew.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> My buddy at the bike shop mentioned possibly doing carbon prep for the nipples. Is anyone having to do this on their rims? I thought I read that it wasn't completely necessary but I want to make sure.
> Thanks


No need for prep unless he meant oiling the spoke threads.



BCBlur said:


> Rim strips came in last night and I mounted up the tires, cassette, and rotors. The tires seated very easily with the rim strips (I always use a compressor).
> 
> Also, I used some NoTubes valves with the Bonty rim strips and they sealed well, but are a little short. It shouldn't be an issue, they just look a little odd and the pump doesn't hold the valves super well.


Same here with the shortness of the valve; I also used a rubber mallet to tap the valve in to get a good seal.

Notubes also makes a 44mm tubeless valve for road rims that should be the same.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

And the money shots:


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

very nice!


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Well I just received a very disappointing phone call from my LBS. My wheel build has hit yet another delay due to "the spokes being about 4mm too short". We had ordered the 260mm DT Swiss spokes after using the DT calculator with the rim specs from Light-Bicycle (536mm ERD) and the Hope hub specs from Hope's website. 

I have no idea where or what went wrong...but very disappointed nonetheless :madmax:

What spoke length are others using?


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> Well I just received a very disappointing phone call from my LBS. My wheel build has hit yet another delay due to "the spokes being about 4mm too short". We had ordered the 260mm DT Swiss spokes after using the DT calculator with the rim specs from Light-Bicycle (536mm ERD) and the Hope hub specs from Hope's website.
> 
> I have no idea where or what went wrong...but very disappointed nonetheless :madmax:
> 
> What spoke length are others using?


I used Wheelsmiths 260mm/258mm spokes with my Hope Flow 2's and everything was dead nuts perfect. Just assembled after getting my rims last week.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

So double checking Hope's website in the tech docs... They say Pro 2 & Pro 2 EVO use the *same* hub shell, however these two documents offer different specs.:madman:

http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/OldHubDimensions.pdf
http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/2010HUBoffsetandpcd.pdf

My front hub is a Pro 2 20mm thru axle & rear hub is a Pro 2 EVO....

Just trying to figure out what could have gone wrong in the spoke length calculation


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> So double checking Hope's website in the tech docs... They say Pro 2 & Pro 2 EVO use the *same* hub shell, however these two documents offer different specs.:madman:
> 
> http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/OldHubDimensions.pdf
> http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/_repository/documents/2010HUBoffsetandpcd.pdf
> ...


I used the same spoke length as you, and have your exact same hubs, and all was dead on. Maybe your spokes were wrong.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

is there a problem using shorter spokes?...
I really ask. I want to know.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

thuren said:


> I used the same spoke length as you, and have your exact same hubs, and all was dead on. Maybe your spokes were wrong.


Yeah something sounds fishy... going to go down there after work and sort things out. Im thinking either the wrong spokes were ordered or sent, of the guy grabbed the wrong box of spokes. I hope its the latter


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

saruti said:


> is there a problem using shorter spokes?...
> I really ask. I want to know.


Well you need the spoke to thread into the nipple far enough that it's secure and able to hold the tension without failing. Ideally you should have about 1mm of spoke thread exposed below the nipple(1mm left to thread in) if your spokes are 4mm too short with 12mm nipples you can switch to 16mm nipples and be fine.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

litany said:


> if your spokes are 4mm too short with 12mm nipples you can switch to 16mm nipples and be fine.


Not sure what size nipples hes trying to use for my wheels, but that is a great point that I hadnt thought about. I will also bring that up to him


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> Not sure what size nipples hes trying to use for my wheels, but that is a great point that I hadnt thought about. I will also bring that up to him


DT Comps are so popular as well...if it's a shop that build wheels often, then they should carry most sizes...


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Hey anthonylokrn
How much do you weigh, if you don't mind me asking. 
I went with basically the same build except I went withdifferent spokes (CK 20mm front/CK 142x12rear and DT Swiss 2.0 straight gauge spokes). I honestly don't know whether the 2.0 is overkill and could have gotten away with something lighter.

I only dropped 200g from my old King/Flow set, which I assume has the same spokes, given that the Flows are exactly 100g heavier than the light bicycle carbon.

Just thinking that maybe i shoulda gone with a lighter gauge spoke and droppped a few more grams of rotational weight? I am pushing 200lbs with gear now.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

OK, so here's a follow up. My original post (#9) when I received the rims was 11 April 2012. I assembled the wheel (only the rear as I am running 650b front) and rode it for a few rides before packing the bike up and departing on my annual mountain bike trip. This year was one week in Steamboat Springs and one week in Crested Butte. I have to say the wheel has performed great. Still in true, nice and stiff. A few scratches here and there from all the rocks but I think these rims are well worth the money. 

Here's just one picture from the Upper Loop Crested Butte.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

anthonylokrn said:


> DT Comps are so popular as well...if it's a shop that build wheels often, then they should carry most sizes...


He measured them out to need 261mm & 263mm spokes. He said he could use the 260mm for the one side and only had 262mm DT Swiss comps in silver....so I wait until Tuesday-Wednesday for the new spokes.

I'm so anxious to try these rims out!


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Gunnar-man said:


> Hey anthonylokrn
> How much do you weigh, if you don't mind me asking.
> I went with basically the same build except I went withdifferent spokes (CK 20mm front/CK 142x12rear and DT Swiss 2.0 straight gauge spokes). I honestly don't know whether the 2.0 is overkill and could have gotten away with something lighter.
> 
> ...


Straight gauge spokes aren't stronger than butted spokes, they are weaker. Its a common misconception that the heavier spoke is somehow stronger. Spokes are very strong nevertheless. it's just harder to build with double butted spokes because they tend to "wind up" easier which just means when you are turning the nipple it's not turning on the spoke, you're turning the spoke which doesn't actually increase tension. There are techniques to deal with this it just makes building the wheel harder.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Gunnar-man said:


> Hey anthonylokrn
> How much do you weigh, if you don't mind me asking.
> I went with basically the same build except I went withdifferent spokes (CK 20mm front/CK 142x12rear and DT Swiss 2.0 straight gauge spokes). I honestly don't know whether the 2.0 is overkill and could have gotten away with something lighter.
> 
> ...


I should be right around 180 lbs fully geared. I also built my Light-Bicycle 50mm carbon clinchers with CX-Ray as well...20/24H so no problems at all.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

I have a couple of rides with the wheels so far and they're pretty nice. They are noticeably stiffer and lighter than my previous setup (Mavic 819 rear, NoTubes Flow front), the rim is nice and wide, and the rims with the Rhythm strips hold air nicely.

Thumbs up so far.



BCBlur said:


> Rim strips came in last night and I mounted up the tires, cassette, and rotors. The tires seated very easily with the rim strips (I always use a compressor).
> 
> Also, I used some NoTubes valves with the Bonty rim strips and they sealed well, but are a little short. It shouldn't be an issue, they just look a little odd and the pump doesn't hold the valves super well.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Serious question guys!

These or the new E13 rims?

I'm having a real conundrum here, building onto King hubs with DT comp spokes. Claimed weight is within two grams (370 carbon vs 372 E13), these are very slightly wider and the price after shipping and tax is within £1 either way. 
But, I can order today and have the E13s tomorrow.

So does anyone have some advice on this or should I just flip a coin?


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## Bradyab (May 7, 2007)

Where do you get info on this E13 rim?


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Bradyab said:


> Where do you get info on this E13 rim?


Silverfish, E13's UK distributor.
TRS+ rim
372g
21mm bead width
28mm external
ERD 533mm
28/32 hole
£125 delivered (Chinese comes to £124-ish after import tax is applied).


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

Quick review: Just got back from a riding vacation in Fernie, British Columbia. Logged about 150km so far on the rims.
I ran them on my Mojo HD and ran my suspension a little softer than usual.

Ardent 2.25 EXO's tubeless converted and used about 28psi front and rear. 

Overall, very happy with the stiffness and lack of flex. Rode variety of terrain and purposely hit the roots and rock sections hard to see how the fared. The bike railed and I had a blast on all the trails.
I did burp a little on my front wheel but I didn't notice until I was finished the ride and saw a little white sealant running on the sidewall. Maybe I have to switch over to the Bontrage Rhythm strips instead of the Stan's yellow tape?
There a few scratches and scuffs on them now as well from the rocks but considering the rocky sections that I choose to ride through, not unexpected. Don't know if I had the glossy finish if that would hide them better or whether the matte is the way to go?

All in all, very happy. Could be selling my Flow wheelset if this happy feeling continues.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Does anyone have any 3rd person view video of riding these rims yet through a rough section of trail or jumping?


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Gunnar-man,

What trails did you ride while in Fernie? If you could take the time to let me know some of the trails, it would help me know how they would hold up to my weight (220lbs).

Eric


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Gunnar-man,

What trails did you ride while in Fernie? If you could take the time to let me know some of the trails, it would help me know how they would hold up to my weight (220lbs).

Eric


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

rugbyred said:


> Gunnar-man,
> 
> What trails did you ride while in Fernie? If you could take the time to let me know some of the trails, it would help me know how they would hold up to my weight (220lbs).
> 
> Eric


Hypervent, Castle rocks, Southern Comfort, South Castle, What's up doc, sidewinder, R trail, Eric's trail, Kidstuff, Splitting bears, Coal Discovery, Project 9, Gorby trail, Verboten ( i think that was all of them)


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

Anybody have any issues with shipping or had? It left China for California on 7/24 and it got sent all the way to New York. It arrived at customs in New York on 7/28 and no update since. I have no idea why it went to the east coast first when it should have went to California. I see a lot of people on the west coast of the US getting them in 4 days. WTF?!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

bajaguy said:


> Anybody have any issues with shipping or had? It left China for California on 7/24 and it got sent all the way to New York. It arrived at customs in New York on 7/28 and no update since. I have no idea why it went to the east coast first when it should have went to California. I see a lot of people on the west coast of the US getting them in 4 days. WTF?!


No problems at all for me on two orders. Your problem seems to be with customs..normally once customs release the package you should get it the next day.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

anthonylokrn said:


> No problems at all for me on two orders. Your problem seems to be with customs..normally once customs release the package you should get it the next day.


Thanks...Its been stuck at customs for two days..WTF:madman:


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## MrNug (Nov 14, 2007)

Mine are stuck in customs as well at the moment. They were posted on Wednesday last week and have been in customs since Sunday.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

Just got my 26er wide UD matte carbon rims from light B (took a week to get here)
Yesterday I've got my new superstar evo hubs (front 20 /rear 135x10)
Will measure the rims and figure out what length spokes I need
Hope to build them soon
Will go on my MKIII iron horse AM bike.
I use the bike mostly for trail rides but also some big gaps and drops if they are in my way 

I'll take some pics soon


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

Maybe I missed it somewhere in this huge thread, but is anyone having luck with UST tires seating? I tried some Specialized Eskars and no luck so far.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

What method did you go with? Vast majority haven't had issues
I was able to seat nobby nic tubeless ready completely dry with a floor pump, using bonti rhythm strips


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Gunnar-man,

Thanks for the response. I don't remember all the trails but I remember Fernie with amazing trails.

Eric


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

clewttu said:


> What method did you go with? Vast majority haven't had issues
> I was able to seat nobby nic tubeless ready completely dry with a floor pump, using bonti rhythm strips


Maybe I'm missing something here, I thought ust and "tubeless-ready" had slightly different beads? I haven't actually tried sealing them yet because when tried them with a tube the tire just doesn't want to seat on the rim properly. It has a big hop in it no matter what. I've tried using lots of soap and water with high pressure an no luck.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

tubeless ready has the same bead as UST, just no extra layer of rubber on the inside...regardless, these rims arent really UST/tubeless ready/whatever you want to call it without using something like rhythm strips no matter what the LB website names them
are you using stans tape? or you used soap and water with a tube? confused


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

My order took (4) days from China, however the EMS tracking was incorrect indicating overnight that it was in new York, then the next morning it correctly stated San Francisco. I would hold tight, maybe it is a random customs delay. On another tangent, how long from the time you placed the order did it take to received the shipping notice. My order took about 6-7 weeks to be fulfilled, then arrived within 5 days to west coast.


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## Warp (May 24, 2004)

Has anyone built these rims off from DT Swiss EX500 (5.1's - 539 ERD) with the same spokes or same spoke lengths?

I'm on EX500's but these are catching my eye. Worth a try if I don't have to swap spokes as my wheels have very little use (almost none).

DT Spoke calc tells me to use 258mm for front wheel, 259/257 for the rear. I may be using 260's all over with the DT's. I don't know exactly what my wheelbuilder used. Thanks!


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

clewttu said:


> tubeless ready has the same bead as UST, just no extra layer of rubber on the inside...regardless, these rims arent really UST/tubeless ready/whatever you want to call it without using something like rhythm strips no matter what the LB website names them
> are you using stans tape? or you used soap and water with a tube? confused


I have Stan's tape on the rims, but decided to try to use a tube in them first to see if they would seat. I figured there was no point wasting Stan's sealant in them if they don't seat correctly.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

My wheels are finally almost finished being built. Got a little preview of the front laced up last night


New wheels are almost ready! #MTB by FMX_DBC, on Flickr


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

There is just something about the color red paired with carbon fiber that is so damn sexy!


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

buggymancan said:


> My order took (4) days from China, however the EMS tracking was incorrect indicating overnight that it was in new York, then the next morning it correctly stated San Francisco. I would hold tight, maybe it is a random customs delay. On another tangent, how long from the time you placed the order did it take to received the shipping notice. My order took about 6-7 weeks to be fulfilled, then arrived within 5 days to west coast.


I placed my order back on June 9th. Shipped July 24th and it updated at 2am today that it left customs in NY. So my wait has been over a week currently.

I actually should be waiting longer but Brian asked if I would be willing to take one that weighed 369 and one that was slightly heavier at 390. If not it would have been a couple more days to a week for them to make a lighter wheel. I was expecting something in the 370 range so I was fine if one was 20 grams heavier. I'll just run the heavier rim in the rear. Enve rims come in at 395 so it still weighs less than what I am getting.


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

bajaguy said:


> I placed my order back on June 9th. Shipped July 24th and it updated at 2am today that it left customs in NY. So my wait has been over a week currently.
> 
> I actually should be waiting longer but Brian asked if I would be willing to take one that weighed 369 and one that was slightly heavier at 390. If not it would have been a couple more days to a week for them to make a lighter wheel. I was expecting something in the 370 range so I was fine if one was 20 grams heavier. I'll just run the heavier rim in the rear. Enve rims come in at 395 so it still weighs less than what I am getting.


I did it the other way around. I had a 20 grams difference between the 2 rims and decided to use the lightest one in the back, for less rotational weight on the wheel you have to accelerate. I think (might be wrong) that's where I should have the lightest far-from-center weight.

Please let me know if I have this wrong....

Johnnydrz


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Johnnydrz said:


> Please let me know if I have this wrong....


Generally speaking, the rear wheel will be subjected to much higher forces than the front one account of the rider's weight having a rearward bias and the force of the chain being as well the brake being applied. Riding sat down exacerbates this as your arms will naturally compensate for the front wheel, but your rear wheel will take the full force of your body weight.

In practice, it doesn't matter on mtbs as rims tend to be overbuilt on purpose, even lightweight ones. But look at road bikes and quite often the rear wheel has more spokes and a beefier rim to cope with the extra energy.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

Johnnydrz said:


> I did it the other way around. I had a 20 grams difference between the 2 rims and decided to use the lightest one in the back, for less rotational weight on the wheel you have to accelerate. I think (might be wrong) that's where I should have the lightest far-from-center weight.
> 
> Please let me know if I have this wrong....
> 
> Johnnydrz


Im going with the rear for strength. The lighter rear would probably be easier to accelerate but the rear also has to take the torque from your pedals. The rear wheel sees greater forces than the front. It honestly probably does not matter in my case since im not a heavy guy.

I got my wheels today (took 9 days from China to Cali). They look great and are super stiff. They are replaicing some 819's that come in at 475 grams a rim.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Fix the Spade said:


> Generally speaking, the rear wheel will be subjected to much higher forces than the front one account of the rider's weight having a rearward bias and the force of the chain being as well the brake being applied. Riding sat down exacerbates this as your arms will naturally compensate for the front wheel, but your rear wheel will take the full force of your body weight.
> 
> In practice, it doesn't matter on mtbs as rims tend to be overbuilt on purpose, even lightweight ones. But look at road bikes and quite often the rear wheel has more spokes and a beefier rim to cope with the extra energy.


MTb rims arent real bad like road runs can be but the rear does take quite a beating anyway so its still a good idea to run a stronger rim in the rear.

I would absolutely put the heavier rim in the rear for 3 very good reasons:
1. If its stronger it will last longer and take less damage
2. Lower unsprung weight in the front means your front tire maintains better contact with the ground and thus more grip, especially in bumpy turns. In the rear this is for most riders less important so front takes priority.
3. You will notice the "lightness" more in the front in the steering.

And yeah, you're wrong about the accelerating thing...both wheels accelerate equally, they go the same speed unless you are doing a wheelie or something.


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## dabe (Apr 4, 2008)

*I got mine!*

Mine arrived a couple weeks ago, but I finally got a chance to seriously look at them tonight (I have been too busy riding). They look good! One weighs 374g and the other is 384g.

I measured the ERD at 540mm using the method explained on the wheelpro.co.uk site.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

Built my wheelset up last night. Specs below.

CK Hubs (20mm/135x12mm)
DT Supercomp Spokes / DT Nipples
Front 800g Rear 930g (1730g)
Weight includes valve and Rhythm Strip


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

In the name of testing, I rode one of my favourite trails today.

The climb crests one of the summits and then descends into this rocky, shark fin mess. Most of the trails around here have some element of these rocks so I was very interested to see how well they would hold up. 


No issues, as of yet. I have burped my Flows on this section a few times and was expecting to do the same again but no sealant down the sidewall.
Ended up with more scratches again from the rocks bouncing up but no rim would be immune from that.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

*My set of 26" wider CF Light Bicycle brand wheels.*

I finally got my wheels at the end of last month and had them laced up at my LBS. Went with the 2011 American Classic Dins 32 spoke hubbs, D Swiss Champion double butted black spokes with red ano nipples, Stan' No Tubes yellow rim tape and valve stems, Specialized Purgatory 2.2 S-Works in the front an a 2.0 Purgatory Control for the rear. The wheelset came in at 1500G on the dot with skewers valve stems and rim tape minus the tires and sealant. So far the ride quality is pretty good and I have droped almost 3lbs from this wheel and tire combination. I corner better and have much better acceleration and have greatly inproved my milage average. 10 mph per 20 miles with 2300 ft of climbing to 11.3 mph for the same course. I am a larger rider (240 lbs with full gear) but haven't noticed much if any wheel flex because I went with a 3 cross spoke lacing pattern and the spokes are 2.0-1.8mm which makes for a very strong set of wheels.


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

My wheels.


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## MrNug (Nov 14, 2007)

dabe said:


> I measured the ERD at 540mm using the method explained on the wheelpro.co.uk site.


Hmm I just measured my new wider rims and both came out at 535mm ERD. Have you built yours up yet?


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

The ERD if the 26" wider rims is in fact 535.


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## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

Has anyone bought a wheelset from light bikes yet? I just got a very good quote from them for a set of the AM rims, with Novatec hubs, Pillar bladed spokes and nips. $548 ($626 shipped). Weight would be about 1580g, which is stellar. Seems like it's hard to go wrong at that price although I'm still hesitant due to being unsure about the hubs, and unknown quality of wheel build. So if anyone can chime in about the quality of these two issues, it would be appreciated.


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

i bought a set of 26" rims to build myself, and recently got a set of prebuilt 29" wheels

Id recommend the novatec 881/882 as they are convertible. they are rebranded by others as their own (Ibis for instance uses them) and are decent. they arent bling, and arent in the same ballpark as hadley/ck/etc, but should be adequate. if you dont have a thru axle frame or fork, get the 9/10mm thru bolt versions instead of QR

The build is not that great (at least mine werent), i would recommend checking them over (or taking them to someone who can). my tensions were a bit out of whack, and i had to retension them. Also, the ds rear spokes were about 2mm too long and nds were about 1-2mm too short.

that said, so far they are holding up fine after around 2-300 miles on a rigid ss with my 200lbs on them.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

MrNug said:


> Hmm I just measured my new wider rims and both came out at 535mm ERD. Have you built yours up yet?


Mine came out to be 540.4 and 540.5 mm


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

mine were 536 (same as listed by LB), received about 3 months ago...when did you guys in the 540's get yours?


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

clewttu said:


> mine were 536 (same as listed by LB), received about 3 months ago...when did you guys in the 540's get yours?


Just received mine yesterday. I'm going to remeasure using a different method


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Any tricks to getting the bead to seat with the bontrager rhythm strips? I'm having the toughest time ever!


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

FMX_DBC said:


> Any tricks to getting the bead to seat with the bontrager rhythm strips? I'm having the toughest time ever!


Air compressor, lost of sealant...


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Any tricks to getting the bead to seat with the bontrager rhythm strips? I'm having the toughest time ever!


my schwalbe's popped on with a floor pump, no sealant, and no soapy water extremely easily on the rhythm strips
ive found schwalbes to be the easiest to seat tubelessly though

try running the tires (if new) with a tube in there for a bit to get the beads more uniform after unpackaging


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

zorg said:


> Air compressor, lost of sealant...


Yup..had to use a air compressor to seat Maxxis tires.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

I found a problem with the rhythm strip being too loose and not fitting into the bead channels properly. Ditching the rhythm strips and going with what I know, yellow tape. 
FWIW there was one portion of the bead that WOULD NOT pop no matter what I tried. Tons of soap + 45 PSI and nothing.
Hopefully the yellow tape makes things easier. After wrestling with 1 wheel for 2 hours I'm ready for a beer :madman:


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## clewttu (May 16, 2007)

someone else (i think in this thread, maybe the 29er one) had this problem early on as well iirc


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Tried a Stan's rim strip and the front did the same thing (different tire, different rim) so I'm hoping its just the crappy UST bead on the maxxis minion tires. Going to try a WTB TCS tire & pray for the best


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Has anyone else had any problems with the seating the bead? I've tried 3 different tires on each wheel and get the same result every time. The bead simply will not seat on a portion of the tire (roughly 1 foot & both sides).


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Yes,
As noted in my earlier post, the rims, particularly in the nude finish are too coarse or the wrong I.D. in the inside bead to allow the tire bead to seat easily, as well as lacking the proper ramps to help with tubeless mounting. I have tried everything I know to get the Racing Ralphs to mount, to no avail. Even with tubes pumped up to 55 its a no go with my older RR (200 Mi or so). In the morning, I will try a brand new RR and see if that works. I have my doubts, as the older pair should have more bead stretch. I ended up remounting the front with a Kenda Slant 6 and it seated properly with some coaxing (soap and water). Kinda bummed at this point, especially as the Tubeless /Stans tape approach proved futile even with a compressor. Any ideas besides soap and water to help with mounting?


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

It seems like I'm having the same issue with the inner diameter of the rims. I contacted Nancy from L-B about the issue and the sticky situation this has put me in. I'm leaving for Colorado on Thursday and I need these wheels to ride on.:madman:
They want to see pictures but I don't have much confidence that they are going to do anything about the issue. :skep:

I'm really between a rock and a hard place


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Has anyone else had any problems with the seating the bead? I've tried 3 different tires on each wheel and get the same result every time. The bead simply will not seat on a portion of the tire (roughly 1 foot & both sides).


Is it always the same section of rim? If so there might be something wrong with the rim?

Have you tried mounting the tire using a tube yet? If it won't even work with a tube then something is probably wrong with the rim.
Might be worth a try if you haven't tried it yet. I have heard of people doing that with new tires and leaving it overnight and then trying tubeless again.

Also, not sure how you are doing it but are you removing the core first? Seems like I can never get my beads to seat unless I remove the core and use plenty of soapy water(with lots and lots of bubbles)
I inject the sealant through the valve(with core removed of course).


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Yes it does always appear to be the same section. I have been trying all day using a tube to seat the tire with no luck


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

I'd get a bit of non-stretch string or fine wire and try to measure the tyre seat circumference. From that value,calculate the BSD (divide by Pi). If the BSD is too out of spec you may never be able to seat some the tighter tyres. You want a value around 559mm for a 26" rim.

Also take a look at the inside edge of the bead shelf and make sure there is not a sharp edge there that may be catching the tyre bead.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

I have the non 3k finish and seated two 2.5 Minion DHF's tubeless no problem. I'm running the rhythm strips and used a compressor as I always do mounting tires tubeless.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Yes it does always appear to be the same section. I have been trying all day using a tube to seat the tire with no luck


wow that sucks. If I can't get the tire to seat even with a tube and always as the same section then I would suspect something is wrong with the rim...but what are the odds that both rims would have the same problem?

This is making me kind of nervous. I just placed my order today for 2 in stock(375g) 3K matte finish rims.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Update:

Ok. I measured the BSD on my rims as best I could ( using the ghetto wire circumference method suggested above). I get 1767 divided by Pi (3.1415) = 562 +_. It is difficult to get a precise measurement, but this would suggest that the BSD is perhaps not per design spec at 559 and would confirm the tire mounting issues I and others are having (noted above). I have contacted Nancy and she indicates they should be per spec according to their QC. I have asked that she verify the product tolerances. 

An update,, I was barley successful mounting up an older Schwalbe RR tire. i seem to recall that the newer corp of RR tires have a really tight bead, so this particular tire is probably the worst of the crop in terms of ease of mounting.As I said, the Kenda Slant 6 mounted ok.

Nancy, please chime in?


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

FWIW I ordered the "heavier" rims


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

1st ride impressions: 26" wide rims. Must say I am very pleased! Came through with flying colors!

Got my first ride in today on the new carbon rims. I have them laced to I-9 XC hubs w/ aluminium straight pull spokes. Wheelset weighs 1480 gms. Previous rims I replaced were Stans Crest. For the same weight, gaining 2 mm of inner width is very significant (21mm vs 23mm) carbon, both with tire profile and hard cornering.

Ride impressions

I immediately felt the instant power transfer and resonant feel of the carbon. When standing, sprinting and climbing, there is absolutely no windup, a great thing. The wheels flat get up and go!

The ride quality is improved over aluminum rims as the carbon provides noticeable muting of trail chatter. Much like a carbon road frame mutes the vibration on a road surface, subtle but very significant. lateral stiffness is vastly improved. The wheels track like they are on rails and feel very light in transition. The added steering precision will have you over-steering if you are used to turning with the bars. So accurate is the steering that you are able to instantly change line by steering with your feet. 

Hard cornering: The combination of the wider rim, better tire profile, increased lateral stiffness has both eliminated tire squirm and provided for razor sharp cornering. Everything I had hoped for in upgrading to carbon.

Vibration dampening and roll: The carbon wheels simply plow over chunder and sharp edge hits, a noticeable upgrade.

Big hits/ jumps. Lateral stiffness again is noticeable in flight and compliance is felt in landings.

So improved are the ride characteristics with the Carbon that I will never go back to an aluminum rim again!


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

The review sounds great... just wish mine weren't useless. I'm very displeased that I'm out $400 with nothing to show for it.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

As i noted above, I am unable to mount the new 2012 Schwalbe Ra RA, however the older 1020 model did mount after a lot of fuss. The review I wrote above is with the older Ra Ra in the rear and the Kenda Slant 6 up front. So far so good, second ride today , sane excellent wheel performance. next i will try converting to tubeless using the Bony strip method.Nonetheless, seems like the BSD unnecessarily tight for the tires I have tried to mount so far. 

I e-mailed Nancy explaining our experience, she responded immediately and stated that the BSD should be per spec. They are checking on it. When did you source your pair, and what tires have you tried so far?


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

I received mine about the middle of last month. I have tried Maxxis minion tires, WTB Dissents & WTB Mutanos. Those are all the tires I have and I'm not gonna go buying up more in hopes that they'll work. I sent pictures to "Nancy" with a far fetched hope that I'll get a new set. Now I just have to spend more money to have a new set of wheels laced by the time I leave for Keystone Thursday:madmax:


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Ya, mine arrived mid- July also, so it sounds like the same production run..


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Mine arrived first week of August. I have not built them up yet, but my caliper measurements show the rim to be within spec. 537 ERD


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Ya, I verified the ERD of my rims at 536, within spec. It is the BSD diameter that is in question, as 559, which is very hard to verify with convential measurements.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

buggymancan said:


> 1st ride impressions: 26" wide rims. Must say I am very pleased! Came through with flying colors!
> 
> Got my first ride in today on the new carbon rims. I have them laced to I-9 XC hubs w/ aluminium straight pull spokes. Wheelset weighs 1480 gms. Previous rims I replaced were Stans Crest. For the same weight, gaining 2 mm of inner width is very significant (21mm vs 23mm) carbon, both with tire profile and hard cornering.
> 
> ...


Your review is spot on with what I felt on the carbon wheels. I don't think I could go back to aluminum wheels again. It almost felt like cheating sometimes.

I'll put some miles on these wheels and possibly throw a beefed up set on on my DH bike if all goes well.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Just got a reply from Nancy after I sent pictures. They now want to see Pictures of the serial numbers


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## J.o.e.l (Jul 21, 2009)

I had the same issues getting the tires to seat all the way. Always a foot section on both sides that would get hung up. In the end, I wiped the bead and most of the sidewall around the problem section with oil (in this case, engine oil, since that's what I had laying around). That did the trick.

I have bontrager xr4 tires and bontrager strips. I used lots of dish soap, even used sealant since it seemed slippery. Pumped it up to nearly 50 psi to no avail. With the oil, the tire popped into place with less than 40 psi.

I think lubricating the sidewall is key since the rim edge seems to 'hook' onto it and locks the tire into that position.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

found a soluttion to the tires not getting even problem
just put some grease on the lips of the tires. they will get out even off the rims. 40psi.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

Joel, just saw your post 
I see you find the solution too.


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

Could anyone recommend me tires compatible with these rims? I'm coming from 2.35 nevegals front and rear and I tend to run fairly high pressures as I'm 100kg.

Nevegals are great in the terrain here which is often wet, lots of roots and rocks and slippery trails. I'd like to go to tubeless on these wheels and run something of similar size and grip.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Are you guys running them tubeless?


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

FMX_DBC said:


> Are you guys running them tubeless?


Just an update. I have version 1.0 and received one of the first batches. The rim built up with CK hub. Been on the wheel for several months now. Running it ghetto tubeless and have not had one burp or leak yet. Haven't had any problems, not even a retension or truing. Even went on a 3 week trip to Steamboat Springs and Crested Butte. These rims rock!!


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

highaltitude said:


> Could anyone recommend me tires compatible with these rims? I'm coming from 2.35 nevegals front and rear and I tend to run fairly high pressures as I'm 100kg.
> 
> Nevegals are great in the terrain here which is often wet, lots of roots and rocks and slippery trails. I'd like to go to tubeless on these wheels and run something of similar size and grip.


I'm partial to Maxxis tires.


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## Leigh2612 (Aug 20, 2012)

*Interesting...!*

Very tempting....!


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

buggymancan said:


> Update:
> 
> Ok. I measured the BSD on my rims as best I could ( using the ghetto wire circumference method suggested above). I get 1767 divided by Pi (3.1415) = 562 +_. It is difficult to get a precise measurement, but this would suggest that the BSD is perhaps not per design spec at 559 and would confirm the tire mounting issues I and others are having (noted above). I have contacted Nancy and she indicates they should be per spec according to their QC. I have asked that she verify the product tolerances.
> 
> ...


this sounds much like the "issue" that some people have with no tubes rims. correct me if i am wrong, but perhaps no tubes make their rims with a slightly higher dia at the bead lock, so tires fit on tighter and get a better seal - and maybe light bicycle is following that approach. with no tubes rims, some people were having issues with schwalbe tires being too tight, and some even had major issues when trying to put UST tires onto the no tubes rims, as those are pretty tight, and a less elastic bead, so much so that the tight UST tire actually reduced the spoke tension (not sure about this - it would suggest that the tire could compress the aluminum rim).

anyway, i reckon that the more the bead lock on these rims resemble the no tubes bead lock (including diameter), the better they will be. i just find the no tubes rims to hold non-UST tires on better than anything else.

glad to hear that you guys got those schwalbe tires to seat properly. i suspect they will be pretty solid now, with burping kept to a minimum.

these wheels are definitely at the top of list of my next rim purchase. i just gotta trash my flows before i can justify the purchase - will be a while because i am still off the bike injured.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

sclyde2 said:


> this sounds much like the "issue" that some people have with no tubes rims. correct me if i am wrong, but perhaps no tubes make their rims with a slightly higher dia at the bead lock, so tires fit on tighter and get a better seal - and maybe light bicycle is following that approach. with no tubes rims, some people were having issues with schwalbe tires being too tight, and some even had major issues when trying to put UST tires onto the no tubes rims, as those are pretty tight, and a less elastic bead, so much so that the tight UST tire actually reduced the spoke tension (not sure about this - it would suggest that the tire could compress the aluminum rim).
> 
> anyway, i reckon that the more the bead lock on these rims resemble the no tubes bead lock (including diameter), the better they will be. i just find the no tubes rims to hold non-UST tires on better than anything else.
> 
> ...


Think of the flows as your backup rims...easily justified. :thumbsup:

I rode another 10 miles on my set and I'm still loving them! The CK hubs are definitely much quieter than the Hopes I initially had.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

gmats said:


> Just an update. I have version 1.0 and received one of the first batches. The rim built up with CK hub. Been on the wheel for several months now. Running it ghetto tubeless and have not had one burp or leak yet. Haven't had any problems, not even a retension or truing. Even went on a 3 week trip to Steamboat Springs and Crested Butte. These rims rock!!


Same here, I got version 1.0, and mounted the Rythm strips in them. Same experience. No problem whatsoever. These rims feel like I'm cheating though. When I'm running out of gas, I can still turn the cranks since the wheels are so light. I've used them in the Sierra where there's plenty of chunk and everything's great so far. I can't think of going back to aluminum rims at this point. Hopefully, they'll release the 650b soon.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

grease or engine oil on the tire beads? Sounds a little sketchy simply to get the tire to seat, eh? Makes me wonder if they would simply mount normally if the BSD was per spec? Still having trouble with the Schwalbe NN (especially the newer 2011 version), thought they were really difficult to mount with the Stans Podium MMx rims also. And still having to use tubes (although the Bonty strips would probably work. I might try some Stans latex sealant to lube the bead (in lieu of motor oil, at least it would dry out and help to bond the bead later (as opposed to oil which would tend to break down the bead? any thoughts?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

buggymancan said:


> grease or engine oil on the tire beads? Sounds a little sketchy simply to get the tire to seat, eh? Makes me wonder if they would simply mount normally if the BSD was per spec? Still having trouble with the Schwalbe NN (especially the newer 2011 version), thought they were really difficult to mount with the Stans Podium MMx rims also. And still having to use tubes (although the Bonty strips would probably work. I might try some Stans latex sealant to lube the bead (in lieu of motor oil, at least it would dry out and help to bond the bead later (as opposed to oil which would tend to break down the bead? any thoughts?


i dunno if i understand the problem.

i haven't seen these rims in the flesh, though have seen some the drawings of the rim profile (anyone know where? probably buried somewhere in this thread) and numerous photos (gotta say though, the profile doesn't always look the same). IIRC, it has a profile a bit like a notubes rim, maybe with a raised ridge, that the tire bead has to get over before getting over to the edge of the rim. is that right?

so, are you having problems getting the bead of the schwalbe tires over the ridge to rim edge?

if so, the obvious approach would be to put the thinnest rim strip possible on there. are you using one layer of stans yellow tape? is that tape the thinnest?

when you imply that the raw finish is adding to this problem, how does it? if you have a rim strip on there, the bead won't touch the carbon until you get it over the ridge to the rim edge.

i too have had a few issues getting some tires over the ridge on notubes rims. but it didn't seem to be that big an issue. With the rim vertical and on the ground, i just grabbed the tire (folded/pinched sidewall, hard to get a good grip) near the spot that wouldn't pop out to the rim edge, put my foot on the opposite inside of the rim (toes between spokes) and pulled the tire up and towards me while holding the rim away. maybe i don't quite understand the problem. maybe the bead profile is different to notubes, or your tire/rim diameter mismatch is much more pronounced.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

The problem is with the final seating of the RR tire bead.It will seat up to s point, leaving about 1' flat spot with the tire "pinched" where the bead will not finally seat all the way (up off the ridge) and onto the outside bead hook, leaving a severe flat spot in the tire and making it un- unusable. mat try leaving the tire to bake in the hot sun then applying a little stan's sealant to the rim ridge and inner tire bead, along with soap and water and about 45 lbs of air. Wont have time to mess with it for a week or so, however.


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## Leigh2612 (Aug 20, 2012)

*superstar getting involved?*

got an email from superstar components this morning, seems they fancy a piece of the carbon action...havent double checked the profile images but sounds similar.

High modulus carbon with a 3k finish
24mm external width, 18mm internal
26" rim = 350g, 29" rim = 380g
Precision angle drilled holes for perfect spoke alignment
Go tubeless with tape and 'goop'

These will be available in early September at £300 per rim, or as a prebuilt Tesla/CX-Ray Wheelset for £699 per pair.

havent checked the site either to see if there is any further info as yet.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

These are the pictures I emails to Nancy. Both sides of both wheels using tubes as well.


Untitled by FMX_DBC, on Flickr


Untitled by FMX_DBC, on Flickr


Untitled by FMX_DBC, on Flickr


Untitled by FMX_DBC, on Flickr


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I have this problem with Bontrager rims and Maxxis tires using their rim strips for tubeless.

I have to use one of these







, lots of windex and have to wrestle with it for some times hours inflating and deflating it along the way. I can't get my Maxxis DHF and High Roller 2.5 on my "cousin earls" that came with the bike to seat right and not blow off with 50 psi. :madman:


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

Leigh2612 said:


> havent checked the site either to see if there is any further info as yet.


Now that would be interesting.

A set of those on their Tesla hubs would interesting indeed. Although why they've gone a 24mm rim instead of something wider, weird.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

guys. if you cant get the tire to seat all around,
just use some grease on the parts that dont come up.
the tire will get even with only 40PSI.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

saruti said:


> guys. if you cant get the tire to seat all around,
> just use some grease on the parts that dont come up.
> the tire will get even with only 40PSI.


I want to say this is a bad idea. I think std rubber and grease to not mix, and the grease can chemically break down the rubber. If anything, 100% dish soap will work just as good, and is "for sure" safe.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> The review sounds great... just wish mine weren't useless. I'm very displeased that I'm out $400 with nothing to show for it.


Did you try dish soap yet?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Can't remember for sure but I thought I saw another thread where people were saying they use hand sanitizer? Main ingredient is alcohol so it evaporates quickly...might be worth a try. 

I've also been wondering about the big jugs of lube I see for sale at Lowe's It is used to help run electric wires in walls. Looks kind of like hand sanitizer...wonder if that would work ok since it is designed for electric wires so shouldn't be harmful to rubber.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

So guys , price looks really good ..Should i pull the trigger ? I will be using this for my typical AM riding and im around 200lbs ... Anyone hit any jumps or drops with these rims yet ?


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

thuren said:


> Did you try dish soap yet?


Have you read any other posts? Of course I have... 



aedubber said:


> So guys , price looks really good ..Should i pull the trigger ? I will be using this for my typical AM riding and im around 200lbs ... Anyone hit any jumps or drops with these rims yet ?


I would have given mine an excellent test & review for you this next week at the Colorado bike parks...but since they don't fit properly, I have to use some old aluminum rims. I personally would wait to see how the company handles the situation I'm currently in. It seems their last batch may not have been so good as far as specs go.

I think the point is being missed that this should not be happening. You shouldn't have to resort to using KY or other forms of super lube just to seat a tire bead. I was able to mount the Maxxis Minion DHF on a WTB rim just fine...


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Just wrote another email asking how this can be resolved & got this response. It doesn't seem like they're willing to do anything else to make the customer happy.

"We have also done some building tyre on rims today, and find the tyre will fit the rims well if it is about 5hours later. You can build the typre on rims, and do air pressure in it. Then leave it there for a few hours. Then check it at last.

Currently, we still haven't found the problem, and our engineers are checking with mold and the rims on production line also. We will let you know when we find out the cause.

Sorry for bringing you so much inconvience.


Thanks,
Nancy"


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

Just adding a data point for the tire mounting issues...

I received my rims on 6/10/12 (3k weave, matte finish) and I have mounted a 2.35 Schwalbe Nobby Nic EVO on the front (older version) and a 2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph (older version) on the rear. Both have been mounted with the Bontrager Rhythm strips using a compressor. Tires mounted up easily and I've had no problems with burping.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

I had problems mounting UST maxxis tires on the rims. so used a little bit of grease on the places that wont come out even.
but I replaced the tires now to regular kevlar maxxis tires (not UST) and they seat great with no need for grease or anything.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> Have you read any other posts? Of course I have...


Sorry I went back *40 or so posts* and read that you did please excuse my question.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Have you read any other posts? Of course I have...
> 
> I would have given mine an excellent test & review for you this next week at the Colorado bike parks...but since they don't fit properly, I have to use some old aluminum rims. I personally would wait to see how the company handles the situation I'm currently in. It seems their last batch may not have been so good as far as specs go.
> 
> I think the point is being missed that this should not be happening. You shouldn't have to resort to using KY or other forms of super lube just to seat a tire bead. I was able to mount the Maxxis Minion DHF on a WTB rim just fine...


Agreed. This should definitely not be happening especially when they are advertising these rims as "tubeless compatible".

I'm sure you tried everything to get those tires to seat. I was just throwing out some ideas to try and help. If I was in your situation I would be just as frustrated as you are.(my rims haven't arrived yet so I might have the same issue as you in a week or two but I'll definitely report back).


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## sonypete (Jun 15, 2008)

FMX_DBC said:


> Have you read any other posts? Of course I have...
> 
> I would have given mine an excellent test & review for you this next week at the Colorado bike parks...but since they don't fit properly, I have to use some old aluminum rims. I personally would wait to see how the company handles the situation I'm currently in. It seems their last batch may not have been so good as far as specs go.
> 
> I think the point is being missed that this should not be happening. You shouldn't have to resort to using KY or other forms of super lube just to seat a tire bead. I was able to mount the Maxxis Minion DHF on a WTB rim just fine...


I wouldn't say all that. Mine had similiar issue but nothing a little elbow grease can't handle. I received my rear rim a couple weeks back and got it back from the shop right before this past weekend. Mounting my specialized Captain tire, def needed allot of soapy water. I had noticed a foot long section that wasn't exposing quite as much of the tire side wall as the rest. It was close enough that it wouldn't bother me to ride it as is. After a rough 13 mile break in over in Allamuch it showed no issues or burping. The tire settled even more after riding and that section of tire is no longer not seating all the way out.

FMX_DBC did you try fully deflating the tire and tugging on the tire starting at the end oppostie of the section not seating. Like two hands and pull away from each other and slowly migrate farther and farther around till your at the side that not seating properly. Then actually attempt to fill the tire. I find I need to do this with brand new tire or on rims that are super tight. I also was trying to soap it after mounting the tire on the rim and found I needed to apply soapy water with no air in the tire as it would not go down deep enough to make a difference. Otherwise I get the same outcome as what your showing in your pics.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

I did in fact try that. I literally spent a total of 10 hours over 3 days trying everything I could think of


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

the rims I ordered just came in. I didn't want to wait so I just asked for 2 of the lighter rims they had in stock. They weigh 375 grams each.
I measured the ERD to be 538 using the method described in Roger Musson's e-book.


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## Ole (Feb 22, 2004)

I ended up putting 3 rounds of 21mm Stan's Yellow Tape in the middle of the rim, and one round of 25mm tape. That made it easy to get tires to inflate. Some tires have been pretty hard to seat all they way around, I solved that by rubbing some Stan's Sealant on the rim, since I was going to use that regardless. Worked like a charm, Conti Rubber Queen 2.4 popped on at 40 psi.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

There really arent a ton of pictures of these rims so I took some. Overall I'm pretty happy with the rims so far, they aren't perfect but they look to be good. They also aren't perfectly true, if I set one rim on top of the other there is a small gap (1mm maybe) between an 8 inch or so section of the rims. If they were perfect they should fit perfectly flush.

I got 4 rims, 1x32 hole, 3x28 hole. No special instructions except to make sure they are good quality. I didn't ask for heavy rims or light rims but as you can see all are overweight. All are unidirectional matte.









































I measured ERD as accurately as I could. I used the method described in Roger Musson's Professional Guide to Wheel Building which is to cut two spokes down to 200mm in length (this makes it easier to put in and take out of the rims which makes the process faster) thread them into the nipples (I used Sapim Polyax 14mm nipples) until the spoke is flush with the notch in the nipple and glue (I used green loctite) them in place. I placed the rims on a table with a stack of printer paper in the middle such that the spokes could rest on the paper without drooping down at all (thus affecting the measurement). I then inserted them into the rims opposite each other and using an 18" ruler lined them up with the straight edge and read measurements into an excel document where I calculated the ERD. Below is a picture of all the ERD measurements I took and the average. As you can see I took half of the possible measurements (8 for the 32h, 7 for 28h) which was probably overkill. I was as meticulous as possible.










As you can see my ERD measurement is longer than everyone else's that I've seen but I'm probably using different nipples and I suppose the way the head is constructed may have some effect on the measurement. The quoted ERD is 385 so I'm glad I measured mine. I ordered Sapim CX-Rays to go with my extralite hyperfront 15qr 28h, DT 240s 28h centerlock 142x12, and Powertap MTB Disc 32h older carbon fiber version. The DT will shed 10g when I put the new star ratchet in.

The spokes I am getting are all Sapim CX-Ray:

258mm black j-bend for 3 cross for powertap (both sides same length)
254mm black j-bend for 2 cross drive side for DT 240s
258mm black j-bend for 2 cross disc side for DT 240s
254mm black straight pull for radial drive side for Extralite hyperfront 15qr
272mm black straight pull for 3 cross disc side for Extralite hyperfront 15qr


















Here are way more high res shots I took to show the details of the rims, you can click on this link to get to the additional full sized pictures.


























This one you can see that the inner layer is 3k carbon:

















Here you can see the finish isn't completely uniform, but it looks good!


























One of the joints? I wonder if there is a piece of something in there like they do on aluminum rims or if it's just bonded together:









Whole rim:

















This is the box shaped mark in the rims, other people were speculating that this is what was used to take the bladders out:


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Wow good Job litany! Talk about being thorough. I used the same measuring method and same nipple as you and I measured my 2 rims out to be about 538, 539 so I just used 538.5 in the wheel pro calculator. I just placed an order for 258mm spokes for the rear( wtb super duty) and 260mm spokes for the front(hope pro II). So excited to build my first wheelset but also kind of nervous about spoke length and also worried about possible issues with tubeless mounting like some other forum members are having


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Just wrote another email asking how this can be resolved & got this response. It doesn't seem like they're willing to do anything else to make the customer happy.
> 
> "We have also done some building tyre on rims today, and find the tyre will fit the rims well if it is about 5hours later. You can build the typre on rims, and do air pressure in it. Then leave it there for a few hours. Then check it at last.
> 
> ...


Any updates or resolution to your issues?


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## MrNug (Nov 14, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> I did in fact try that. I literally spent a total of 10 hours over 3 days trying everything I could think of


I haven't read all of your posts (quite a lot!) but sounds like the inner channel on the rim is catching and stopping the bead popping out to the rim. Have you tried adding a thin amount of tape (gorilla tape would be fine) to just the inner channel and then using the full width tape over the top?

It'd make the ridge much less pronounced but be careful not to add too much otherwise it'll be tough to get the tyre on to begin with. Again use plenty of soapy water and it should pop on after about 45psi.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

MrNug said:


> I haven't read all of your posts (quite a lot!) but sounds like the inner channel on the rim is catching and stopping the bead popping out to the rim. Have you tried adding a thin amount of tape (gorilla tape would be fine) to just the inner channel and then using the full width tape over the top?
> 
> It'd make the ridge much less pronounced but be careful not to add too much otherwise it'll be tough to get the tyre on to begin with. Again use plenty of soapy water and it should pop on after about 45psi.


Yeeeaaaaahhhhhh... you need to read his post completely.


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## MrNug (Nov 14, 2007)

MTB Pilot said:


> Yeeeaaaaahhhhhh... you need to read his post completely.


Helpful... Which post  ? I've seen hat he's tried rhythm strips, stans and yellow tape - all of which either accentuate the problem of the deep ridged middle channel or keep it the same.

I don't think I've seen him try just padding out the channel slightly.

FWIW both my rims measure up as 562mm diameter and I've seated mine using the method stated with a LUST high roller and a continental x king 2 ust...


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Going to purchase some of these, but before I do I have just a couple of questions: I weigh around 200-210 pounds kitted out and ready to ride, The type of riding I do is in the middle of xc and AM with rocky sections and 3-4 foot drops (I don't do jumps as can't!!) I tend to ride quite hard (clumsy!) trying to leave the brakes alone as prefer to crash through rock gardens, rooty sections and river crossings. With all this in mind which rim would be the better choice between the beefed up version or the normal weight version? ( I currently run stans Arch rims and can see/feel the flex) Also which is considered the sexier finish?
Cheers in advance for any responses


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

ruscle said:


> Going to purchase some of these, but before I do I have just a couple of questions: I weigh around 200-210 pounds kitted out and ready to ride, The type of riding I do is in the middle of xc and AM with rocky sections and 3-4 foot drops (I don't do jumps as can't!!) I tend to ride quite hard (clumsy!) trying to leave the brakes alone as prefer to crash through rock gardens, rooty sections and river crossings. With all this in mind which rim would be the better choice between the beefed up version or the normal weight version? ( I currently run stans Arch rims and can see/feel the flex) Also which is considered the sexier finish?
> Cheers in advance for any responses


That sums up me and my riding (about 10lbs lighter) and I am running the normal weight after debating which I should buy.

I have no complaints. These things are bombproof after 400km of riding. I am using them tubeless with ardent 2.25's at 24ish psi. I rode down a trail yesterday with sharp and loose babyheads at speed and heard a sound that I have never heard before. I assumed I was bottoming out the tire onto the rim and that was the sound of carbon hitting rock. I checked the wheels when i finally got through it and slowed down. No marks, cracks or burped sealant.
FInish is a personal preference, I think. I have the matte finish and they seem to scuff an scratch pretty easy, easier than my old black Flow rims but i prefer the matter to gloss.
Compared to your Arches, you will notice a big difference in stiffness.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Damn see im on the fence too about this ... I love riding in rock gardens and hitting some small drops ... Hmmm .. Decisions


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Gunnar-man - Standard weight rims or did you get heavier ones?

QUOTE=Gunnar-man;9628941]That sums up me and my riding (about 10lbs lighter) and I am running the normal weight after debating which I should buy.

I have no complaints. These things are bombproof after 400km of riding. I am using them tubeless with ardent 2.25's at 24ish psi. I rode down a trail yesterday with sharp and loose babyheads at speed and heard a sound that I have never heard before. I assumed I was bottoming out the tire onto the rim and that was the sound of carbon hitting rock. I checked the wheels when i finally got through it and slowed down. No marks, cracks or burped sealant.
FInish is a personal preference, I think. I have the matte finish and they seem to scuff an scratch pretty easy, easier than my old black Flow rims but i prefer the matter to gloss.
Compared to your Arches, you will notice a big difference in stiffness.[/QUOTE]


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Looking at the web site they only have matte in stock in either 3k or UD and the in stock weights are between 381g-389g so the decision is quite easy as they are all about in the middle of standard and the beefy ones.


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

seleniak said:


> Gunnar-man - Standard weight rims or did you get heavier ones?
> 
> QUOTE=Gunnar-man;9628941]That sums up me and my riding (about 10lbs lighter) and I am running the normal weight after debating which I should buy.
> 
> ...


[/QUOTE]

I went standard weight.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I went with the 3K finish. They only make them between 370g-380g, seems the UD finish always comes out heavier as they suggest I went with those if I wanted the weight around 390g. I just asked them to pick out 2 rims at 380g as thought the 10g difference won't be all that in strength and the 3K finish is meant to be minimally stronger. The other main reason for wanting a little more weight was to increase the ERD as want to just swap rims on existing wheels and the ERD is 540mm on present rims. Looking at the post above with listed ERD's I should be ok. I will post picks and weights once they arrive in just over a week hopefully.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ruscle said:


> I went with the 3K finish. They only make them between 370g-380g, seems the UD finish always comes out heavier as they suggest I went with those if I wanted the weight around 390g. I just asked them to pick out 2 rims at 380g as thought the 10g difference won't be all that in strength and the 3K finish is meant to be minimally stronger. The other main reason for wanting a little more weight was to increase the ERD as want to just swap rims on existing wheels and the ERD is 540mm on present rims. Looking at the post above with listed ERD's I should be ok. I will post picks and weights once they arrive in just over a week hopefully.


I got mine last Wednesday. It took 4 days to get to California from China. 
I measured the ERD out to be about 538-539 so if you are swapping with 540 rims it should be really close.

Oh and these rims have the same external/internal width and rim profile as the 29er version. The only difference is the diameter.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

They quoted same amount of days to get to the UK so should have them by end of next week. What weight did yours come out at pwu_1? if between 538-539 ERD then I should be OK, spokes only come in evens so can't see a problem as got them on the short side for previous rims.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

The last response I got from Nancy was that they were checking and couldn't find the problem. She also noted that they do not have tubeless tires over there. I haven't received any response for a few days which makes me think I am getting screwed on the deal.

Also, why is there so much variation in the ERD?


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ruscle said:


> They quoted same amount of days to get to the UK so should have them by end of next week. What weight did yours come out at pwu_1? if between 538-539 ERD then I should be OK, spokes only come in evens so can't see a problem as got them on the short side for previous rims.


Their website shows the rims they have in stock so I just picked out 2 3k matte rims that were the lightest of the bunch. The website says they weigh 375 grams. 
I weighed them when they arrived and they are 375grams according to my scale too.

Yeah this variation on the ERD has me kind of nervous too. Not sure if they are changing the process as they get more experience at making these rims or if they are basically not able to control the quality so there is a lot of variation in sizes.
Personally, I think its the latter case. The big carbon rim sellers like Enve, Roval, etc probably has just as much variation except their QA process probably rejects a lot more rims than a small company like light-bicycle. 
The end result is that for the lower price, we as the end user sometimes get product that would have otherwise been rejected during the QA process.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> The last response I got from Nancy was that they were checking and couldn't find the problem. She also noted that they do not have tubeless tires over there. I haven't received any response for a few days which makes me think I am getting screwed on the deal.
> 
> Also, why is there so much variation in the ERD?


I don't know if this is a good idea or not but if these were my wheels and I can't get light-bicycle to take them back or replace them, as a last resort, I might take some sand paper to the raised channel and sand off just a little bit of material to see if I can get the bead to seat. 
But like I said, I don't know if this is a good idea or if it is even possible...but yeah looking at the rims that I received, it looks like it was sanded at the factory.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> Also, why is there so much variation in the ERD?


What variation are you talking about? Between earlier rims and current ones?
Months ago people were reporting like 536 and more recently it seems to be 538-539. My 4 rims were fairly consistent but the drilling is probably the least consistent part.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

My wheels are built up.

DT 350 hubs with the 36 POE upgrade
DT supercomp Spokes

Mounted a tire up with a tube and everything went well except for one spot on the back.










I can't remember if this spot was present on the wheel before it was built up or not. I don't feel any ridges; so it may just be cosmetic. I will give a ride and see what happens.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> Also, why is there so much variation in the ERD?


Probably human measuring error.

Side note, I was mounting up a new WTB Mutano TCS(same in some of your pics?) tire on my rear rim, set up Ghetto tubeless(even more material for the bead to pop over). First attempt I had the same approx 8" "non seat" like your pictures show. Let the air out, squirted some pure dish soap in there, inflated to 40psi, and let the tire sit. Hour later came back and all was seated fine.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

PainkillerSPE said:


> My wheels are built up.
> 
> DT 350 hubs with the 36 POE upgrade
> DT supercomp Spokes
> ...


What sizes are your DT 350s and what do your wheels weigh? I'm thinking about building a set with those hubs.

Are those the 3k matted or do they have a clear coat on them?


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

MTB Pilot said:


> What sizes are your DT 350s and what do your wheels weigh? I'm thinking about building a set with those hubs.
> 
> Are those the 3k matted or do they have a clear coat on them?


3k matte.

DT 350s are 135mm. The size will depend on what your rear end accepts. Most bikes are 135mm except for newer models which are moving to 142 mm rear ends.

The rear wheel weighs 830 grams with out rotors. The front wheel was built with a Halo XCD hub and weighs about 720 grams.

For the price the 350 is hard to beat. Only a few grams heavier than the 240s, but share the same internals and are loads cheaper.

I mainly went with the 350 in case I want to run the new shram 1x11 drive-train in the future.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Yeah, I got a brand new set of 350s for $330 shipped; 20/110mm and 12/150mm. I want to build a carbon set of wheels for my DH bike. I have been running carbon Easton Havens on my Firebird for a few months now and the difference running carbon wheels is very impressive. I guess I will order the rims beefed up a bit, but not sure I really need to; I run high volume Specialized DH tires tubless. 

Hoping to shave about a pound off my current wheels which are around 2200 grams.

Thanks!


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Update.

Rear tire is mounted and holding air.

The front tire is leaking really bad around the valve so it will need re-taping.

Fixed by re-taping the wheel with the blue specialized rim tape.

Also my front tire will not fully seat on one side just like the others have experienced. Seems to be getting stuck in the center channel.

Using the blue specialized rim tape also fixed the tire mounting issue. The front mounted easily with no fuss.

If you are having trouble I would suggest giving the specialized tape a try.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

I fixed the issues in the above post and the wheels are complete and ready for riding. But i will not be able to ride for another week. I have a 100 mile race on Sunday then it's vacation time. I'm hesistant to test new wheels at a 100 mile race 

Here are some pictures.




























Sadly these are 40 grams heavier than my current wheels. Hopefully the stiffness makes up for the added weight.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

FMX_DBC said:


> Have you read any other posts? Of course I have...
> 
> I would have given mine an excellent test & review for you this next week at the Colorado bike parks...but since they don't fit properly, I have to use some old aluminum rims. I personally would wait to see how the company handles the situation I'm currently in. It seems their last batch may not have been so good as far as specs go.
> 
> I think the point is being missed that this should not be happening. You shouldn't have to resort to using KY or other forms of super lube just to seat a tire bead. I was able to mount the Maxxis Minion DHF on a WTB rim just fine...


I have that problem with virtually every tire I set up tubeless, except my road bikes... Sometimes it's worse than others. Sun, Easton, Bontrager, no name carbon... They all do it. Schwalbe tires seem to be the biggest instigators, Maxxis too. Soap and elbow grease fixes it. pressure them down to where you could just burp them with your hands, stand on the sidewall of the side in question and flex the rim over away from it. Eventually it'll start to work into place. Pressure them back up to the limit and see what happens. Sometimes it takes several tries.

I doubt it has anything to do with the rims. I'd blame the tires.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

PainkillerSPE said:


> Update.
> 
> Rear tire is mounted and holding air.
> 
> ...


Wonder what is different about the Specialized tape? Is it thinner than the Stan's tape?
In any case, thanks for posting this. Its nice to know there is another option to try in case I have issues too


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Ordered my 3k wider rims on monday, emailed Nancy today for update and she replied that 1 rim was ready and weighed 379g, but the production line was stopped today as they do their monthly inventory checks on the last day of the month. She will be updating me on my second rim tomorrow when hopefully they will both be completed and then promptly shipped, which means they are running to schedule if not slightly ahead.:thumbsup:

I would have preferred the rim to be a little heavier but I don't envisage to many problems as I only weigh in at 85kg max when fully kitted out and ready to ride (79kg as god intended!!)

What are peoples perceptions on their claimed 130kg max weight for these rims and the abuse to weight ratio you can throw at them?

Also I used the blue specialized tape in the past and found it to be more fragile than stans yellow, tearing easily when swapping out tyres. By far the best system is the Bonty strips which as stated many times before are just so solid in performance, well worth the hefty 20-30g gain in weight.


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

PainkillerSPE said:


> 3k matte.
> 
> DT 350s are 135mm. The size will depend on what your rear end accepts. Most bikes are 135mm except for newer models which are moving to 142 mm rear ends.
> 
> ...


which rim did you choose, narrow or wide, and whats the specs?


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

wannabeRacer said:


> which rim did you choose, narrow or wide, and whats the specs?


Wide rims. specs are on light bikes website.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

PainkillerSPE said:


> Sadly these are 40 grams heavier than my current wheels. Hopefully the stiffness makes up for the added weight.


What are the current rims you have that are 40g lighter?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

006_007 said:


> What are the current rims you have that are 40g lighter?


I think he means not the rims, but the wheelset itself, maybe because he used heavier hubs and spokes with the carbon rims than he did with his previous alloy wheels.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Correct the carbon wheelset is slightly heavier than my other set of Cobalts.

Just finished a 20 mile ride on the new wheels.

I'm happy to report that they did not implode or shatter into a million pieces. * In fact they were freakin awesome!!*

Wheels were very stiff and held a straight line over rough sections of trail and handled quick gully dips and jumps with ease. Switching to wide rims made a huge difference as well. I really noticed increased traction in corners and climbs. I'm really digging the DT 350 Rear hub as well and the Halo XCD front hub just wants to keep spinning. I run my tires at 30 psi had no issues with burping.

So in summery the carbon wheels performed amazingly on their maiden voyage and I noticed a huge improvement over the Cobalts.

I will report back on long term use.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

mattsavage said:


> I have that problem with virtually every tire I set up tubeless, except my road bikes... Sometimes it's worse than others. Sun, Easton, Bontrager, no name carbon... They all do it. Schwalbe tires seem to be the biggest instigators, Maxxis too. Soap and elbow grease fixes it. pressure them down to where you could just burp them with your hands, stand on the sidewall of the side in question and flex the rim over away from it. Eventually it'll start to work into place. Pressure them back up to the limit and see what happens. Sometimes it takes several tries.
> 
> I doubt it has anything to do with the rims. I'd blame the tires.


I've never had issues like this with any tires on any other rims besides these. By the way, the company has stopped responding to me. :madmax: I'm not going to bother with another set of these CHEAP chineses rims. Keep your money in the US! Buy American made! $400 down the drain to these bastards!:madmax:


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

FMX_DBC said:


> I've never had issues like this with any tires on any other rims besides these. By the way, the company has stopped responding to me. :madmax: I'm not going to bother with another set of these CHEAP chineses rims. Keep your money in the US! Buy American made! $400 down the drain to these bastards!:madmax:


This is why you purchase with a credit card and refuse payment to light bicycle. If you have a good credit card company and a good history with them they will gladly refuse payment. I've done it before on a product that just did not work and I was refused a refund.

You seem to be the only person with this kind of trouble though so perhaps something is wrong on your end. Im not saying that there is but it could be possible.


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

FMX_DBC said:


> I've never had issues like this with any tires on any other rims besides these. By the way, the company has stopped responding to me. :madmax: I'm not going to bother with another set of these CHEAP chineses rims. Keep your money in the US! Buy American made! $400 down the drain to these bastards!:madmax:


Too lazy to read back on all your posts and what you've tried to remedy the problem.

I'm sure you've already checked to make sure the lip is uniform all around the rim? Have you checked to make sure that the joints were flush? On my road rims I got from them, I had to dremel down the joints because there was extra material that wasn't sanded down flush enough.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok I just finished setting up my wheels/tires tubeless. I purchased 2 3k matte finish rims off of their in-stock list a couple of weeks ago and waited 4 days for them to arrive, then another week to get the spokes.
I wanted to measure the rim myself so I waited until the rims got here and so had to wait another week for the spokes. 
The spokes finally arrived on Saturday so I got busy building the wheels. I finished the front late Saturday night and the rear late Sunday night.
The front is using a Hope Pro II evo hub and CX-Ray spokes. I use 260mm for both left and right side. The left side was a bit too long with a bit of spoke poking through past the end of the nipple. The right side was perfect. Final weight is 708 grams with no valve/tape. Using the rhythm strip and stans valve the total weight is 750 grams.
The rear is using a WTB Super Duty 135x12 hub and CX-Ray spokes. I used 258mm for both left and right side and thought they came out just about perfect. Final weight is 808 grams with no valve/tape. Using the rhythm strip and stans valve the total weight is 850 grams.

I'm using brand new Schwalbe Nobby Nics(2.4 front, 2.25 rear) snakeskin tires.
It was a major PITA to set these up tubeless. Even now I'm kind of nervous about them. Usually I set up tubeless by removing the valve core and not using any sealant, then I air up the tire and make sure the beads pop into place. Then I deflate the tires and put the core back in and either pump it up with my compressor or floor pump. With these wheels, even after I managed to pop the beads into place, as soon as the air is let out, they pop back out of the channel(they actually make the pop noise). This has me kind of nervous since on my other wheels, as long as I don't mess with it, I can let all the air out and the bead would still be in the bead channel.
Anyway, when I initially tried to set these up, the tire aired up on the first try with no soapy water or anything but I had the same problem as FMX_DBC where 1 section of tire(approximately opposite of the valve) would not pop out from the center channel. I then tried using Stan's yellow tape instead of the rhythm strip and couldn't even air up the tire. Finally, I used a small foam brush and lightly coated the tire and the rhythm strip with anti-bacterial gel soap. I attempted to air up the tire and finally got the bead to seat at around 55psi. After that I needed to let the air out and put the core back in so I can air it up for good but once I let the air out, the beads pop back out of the bead channel and into the center channel again. Anyway, long story short, I was finally able to get the bead to seat again once I pumped it up to about 50-55psi. 
Now I have the pressure lowered to about 45 and I"m going to let it sit like this over night and tomorrow I'll try putting in the Stans sealant(hopefully when I deflate it tomorrow the bead won't drop back into the center channel again).
Here are some pictures


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> I've never had issues like this with any tires on any other rims besides these. By the way, the company has stopped responding to me. :madmax: I'm not going to bother with another set of these CHEAP chineses rims. Keep your money in the US! Buy American made! $400 down the drain to these bastards!:madmax:


My wheels are still going strong. I'm sorry your having such a problem hope you figure something out


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

FMX_DBC said:


> I've never had issues like this with any tires on any other rims besides these. By the way, the company has stopped responding to me. :madmax: I'm not going to bother with another set of these CHEAP chineses rims. Keep your money in the US! Buy American made! $400 down the drain to these bastards!:madmax:


I jsut set up a set of Easont XC Ones with Hutch. Bulldog CX's last night. I had the same exact problem. The bead wouldn't seat evenly. I spent most of the afternoon working it out. It's mostly even now, plenty good enough.

I also just built up a set of 29er rims from Carbonal. They initially were doing it as well, but I found the problem. The bead was sitting pretty tight down in the channel, setting up for a good tubeless fit, but when I'd hit it with the air, one side of bead was pulling the rim strip over with it to the rim causing it to bunch up between the bead and the rim at the location where it wasn't seating evenly. I found this out after about an hour when I pulled the tire off and noticed the creasing in the rim strip. So I put it back together, paid close attention to how the bead sat in the channel and it seated up just fine after that.

Maybe it is the BSD and yours is off just enough that the tires wont give at all. Bummer...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

Ok, just wanted to give a quick update. I left the Nobby Nics inflated without sealant at about 45-46psi over night. This morning I checked the pressure and they were at about 43psi. I then let all the air out and again the beads pop'ed back out of the bead channel and into the center channel. I then added sealant and attempted to air up the tires again. The back tire(2.25) aired up pretty easily and the whole bead pop'ed in at around 45 psi. The front tire(2.4) took some coaxing but eventually aired up. The bead pop'ed in at around 55 psi. 

So now I have a question for the others using the rhythm strip. Have you tried deflating the tire all the way? does the bead pop back into the center channel when the air is let out? All my other tubeless set ups the bead stays in the bead channel when the air is let out. I'm wondering if these tires are poping back out because of the soap that I used. 
Anyway, going to take them out for a ride later today or tomorrow.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> So now I have a question for the others using the rhythm strip. Have you tried deflating the tire all the way? does the bead pop back into the center channel when the air is let out? All my other tubeless set ups the bead stays in the bead channel when the air is let out. I'm wondering if these tires are poping back out because of the soap that I used.
> Anyway, going to take them out for a ride later today or tomorrow.


I experience the beads dropping back out frequently, especially on new setups even when sat over night... Annoying, especially when airing back up after adding sealant, but, oh well...


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Most rims converted to tubeless the beads "pop off" the ramps when deflated. I have run this type of conversion on many rims, and never had a problem except one time I burped a tire, on a BIG drop.

I have these same rims, converted to tubeless, and they do pop off the same way when deflated. I have ridden them HARD with no burping issues at all. I do run 28-30psi front, 30-35psi rear though. Rather high.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> I experience the beads dropping back out frequently, especially on new setups even when sat over night... Annoying, especially when airing back up after adding sealant, but, oh well...


yeah it was a bit sketchy since I wasn't sure if I would be able to air up the tire again after adding the sealant but I got it to air up and the bead pop'ed back so its all good.

I'm just slightly worried about burping on the trail since seems to me like if the bead is dropping back into the center channel that means the interface between the tire and rim is not all that great. But whatever, I'll see what happens I guess.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> I'm just slightly worried about burping on the trail since seems to me like if the bead is dropping back into the center channel that means the interface between the tire and rim is not all that great.


I wouldn't worry about it... As long as you're using a rim strip and not just tape you should be fine (IMO).


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

thuren said:


> Most rims converted to tubeless the beads "pop off" the ramps when deflated. I have run this type of conversion on many rims, and never had a problem except one time I burped a tire, on a BIG drop.
> 
> I have these same rims, converted to tubeless, and they do pop off the same way when deflated. I have ridden them HARD with no burping issues at all. I do run 28-30psi front, 30-35psi rear though. Rather high.


Good to know. Thanks for the info. I normally run 25 front and 26 rear(I weigh about 165). With these maybe I'll run a bit higher pressure initially.

I did notice that the bead didn't drop off until the tire was practically flat.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> I've never had issues like this with any tires on any other rims besides these. By the way, the company has stopped responding to me. :madmax: I'm not going to bother with another set of these CHEAP chineses rims. Keep your money in the US! Buy American made! $400 down the drain to these bastards!:madmax:


FMX_DBC, try using straight liquid soap(no dilution). Get a brush and brush it on to the rhythm strip and the tire bead. 
I had the same exact issue as you and using the soap worked for me as it has for at least one other person.
One of my tires poped in at around 50psi while the other one didn't really pop in till almost 55psi.
But yeah, once I got the tire to hold air using a compressor, I pumped it up the rest of the way using a floor pump.

I know the situation sucks but you got nothing to loose and everything to gain by trying it just 1 more time....I really hope you give it one more shot and it works out for you too. Good luck


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

You could also use glycerin and water mix, there is talk about it on the home brew sealant thread being very slippery and helping the bead to seat at a much lower pressure.

My 3k 26er wider rims have been dispatched so hoping I don't have as bad a problem getting them seated once built up and ready to ride.

I'm planning on building these wheels myself and it will be my first ever build, which seems to be the same as a lot of other folk. I find it strange that a lot of people are choosing to do their first ever build with these carbon rims when they are actually more expensive than the normal alloy rims most people are used to using.


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

I received mine in July and took them to the LBS Friday to get them built up with some CK hubs. I'm hoping to test them out Thursday-they should be ready Wednesday. I'm going to use the High Roller and Lust tires currently mounted on my 819's. I thought about trying to build them up myself, but I'll start with wheels for my Schwinns first. I know in my other hobby-RC helicopters-you can buy 'cheap chineese' upgrades and it seems it's always the same thing-some people have great luck right out of the box with the product while most have to figure out 'work arounds' to make the part work for them. The trade off is saving quite a bit of money. So I went into the wheel build with my hopes up high that everything will work out. I went with standard spokes since it saved me quite a bit of money and splurged on red nipples. I can always reuse the hubs if things go wrong. I think I'll be cautious with them for a while-especially on trails like Rocky Ridge at Santa Teresa Park at first. This may help bring down the prices on name brand carbon rims though-once someone starts producing a carbon rim with minimal issues-I think news will travel fast and force the price down. For now I think the trade off isn't bad but I won't know till I get that call on Wednesday. I'll post Picts and updates later this week. These are going on my Mach 5.7 c. I'm mostly a weekend warrior right now so may be good enough for me.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Is light Bicycle currently the only place to purchase "cheap Chinese carbon rims" right now?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

ttengineer said:


> Is light Bicycle currently the only place to purchase "cheap Chinese carbon rims" right now?


No, but they're the only ones that advertise "tubeless compatible". Most cheap carbon frame suppliers/manufacturers offer carbon rims. And they have the easiest website to order from....


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ttengineer said:


> Is light Bicycle currently the only place to purchase "cheap Chinese carbon rims" right now?


I'm sure there are other places but light-bicycle is the one that most people on the forums buy and so most of the discussions on mtbr is about light-bicycle rims(both 26 and 29ers)


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

Read all your posts guys and I've given up on these things since the company will no longer respond to me. Their customer service is great until you have a problem obviously. Gonna turn them into small tables or somethin I guess... :skep:


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Have you tried taking it to a bike shop


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

PainkillerSPE said:


> Have you tried taking it to a bike shop


Of course...they couldn't do it any better than I could


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

So can any nipple/spokes be used-no special requirements since they are carbon?


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## equalme (Sep 8, 2010)

Nelson34 said:


> So can any nipple/spokes be used-no special requirements since they are carbon?


Yup, normal nipple and spokes. Build them up like any other alu rim and make sure to use spoke prep.


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

Thanks! Should be ready tonight for a test ride tomorrow


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

FMX_DBC said:


> Read all your posts guys and I've given up on these things since the company will no longer respond to me. Their customer service is great until you have a problem obviously. Gonna turn them into small tables or somethin I guess... :skep:


So are they only not mounting up tubeless? or even with a tube its still being a fricken PITA for ya? These looked so promising - but one bad set is enough to really damage their potential.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

FMX_DBC said:


> Yes it does always appear to be the same section. I have been trying all day using a tube to seat the tire with no luck


I think he was having issues getting the bead to seat even with a tube!


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> I think he was having issues getting the bead to seat even with a tube!


Ah well, Enve it is then :thumbsup:


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

006_007 said:


> Ah well, Enve it is then :thumbsup:


Why? Many others including myself are having zero issues with these rims. Mine are performing great. I had one issue with the tire not seating, but switching rim tape fixed it.


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## kingair (Jun 2, 2008)

I just ordered my 4th set of light-bicycle rims. The 26" set on my knolly delirium is great. Mounted up tubeless with no problems what so ever. They were an easy build, the quality appears to me to be awesome. No complaints and I would buy again in a heart beat. So far I've purchased and personally built the wheels on a pair of 50mm 28 hole road clincher rims laced 2x to dt swiss 240s hubs. A set of road clinchers with 38mm 20 hole radially laced front and 50mm 24 hole 2x laced rear to chris king r45 hubs. The 26" "wider" 32 hole laced 3x to chris king hubs. And finally when they come in a set of 32 hole "wider 29er" rims that will be laced 3x to chris king hubs. For the price these rims are really nice!


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

So got the call the wheels were ready for me. Took my bike in to swap out the tires and rotors, etc. First tire mounted perfectly! Second one as I suspected-I had a huge leak/gash in it but it seated just fine as well. So got another tire off the shelf and held my breath-seated just fine with a lil more pressure-I think it was at about 50. Hopefully if all goes well ill test them out tomorrow on a casual ride to Kennedy.


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## mjiman (Nov 28, 2005)

*Spoke Size*



kingair said:


> I just ordered my 4th set of light-bicycle rims. The 26" set on my knolly delirium is great. Mounted up tubeless with no problems what so ever. They were an easy build, the quality appears to me to be awesome. No complaints and I would buy again in a heart beat. So far I've purchased and personally built the wheels on a pair of 50mm 28 hole road clincher rims laced 2x to dt swiss 240s hubs. A set of road clinchers with 38mm 20 hole radially laced front and 50mm 24 hole 2x laced rear to chris king r45 hubs. The 26" "wider" 32 hole laced 3x to chris king hubs. And finally when they come in a set of 32 hole "wider 29er" rims that will be laced 3x to chris king hubs. For the price these rims are really nice!


what size spokes did you use for the 26" wide rim build with the King Hubs?


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## AndreyI52 (Feb 4, 2009)

FMX_DBC said:


> Read all your posts guys and I've given up on these things since the company will no longer respond to me. Their customer service is great until you have a problem obviously. Gonna turn them into small tables or somethin I guess... :skep:


I have one more suggestion that may resolve your problems. Find an appropriate width fiber reinforced tape that covers the spoke holes but does not cover the tire bead seating surface. The reinforced tape should be strong enough to provide an airtight seal (with the aid of some sealant after mounting the tire). You will of course require a separate tubeless valve stem.

The aim is to keep the circumference of the tire bead seating surface to a minimum.

As an added bonus you may save weight by eliminating the use of rim strips.

If it does work, I suggest that you periodically check that the reinforced tape does not migrate inwards exposing the spoke holes & giving you a flat tire.

Good luck!


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

FMX_DBC said:


> Read all your posts guys and I've given up on these things since the company will no longer respond to me. Their customer service is great until you have a problem obviously. Gonna turn them into small tables or somethin I guess... :skep:


So just run tubes in them. You still have carbon rims man that you got for CHEAP. Tubeless shouldn't be a deal breaker. Besides running them with tubes for a while might "massage" the tire enough to allow you to run tubeless after a few weeks or riding.


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## FMX_DBC (Jul 3, 2011)

pwu_1 said:


> I think he was having issues getting the bead to seat even with a tube!


Correct



ttengineer said:


> So just run tubes in them. You still have carbon rims man that you got for CHEAP. Tubeless shouldn't be a deal breaker. Besides running them with tubes for a while might "massage" the tire enough to allow you to run tubeless after a few weeks or riding.


No thanks. I live in Arizona where everything wants to give you a flat. I picked up some good used Stan's Flow rims for $40 I'm going to use instead. 
No way am I going to gamble on this company again.


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

Didn't get to go out today-hopefully Sunday.


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## Shane_CA (Aug 17, 2008)

Nelson - did Ford have any comments on the rims? any issue setting them up tubeless? Are you running Bontranger strips or just tape?


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

No-he said no real issues at all building them. He used the yellow tape-Stans? Once they were built-I took my bike in and we swapped the tires and turned out I had a gash on my rear tire. All three mounted with no issues-2 older tires and 1 off the rack. Bike rolls much smoother! Test will be Sunday!


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Interesting!:skep: I tried to order a set of rims, but it would only take me to PayPal to complete the order. Even in PayPal it wouldn't let me select a credit card over my balance or bank account. It shows they take all the CCs at the bottom of their page, but I was unable to figure out how to use them.

I didn't complete the transaction, because I want a way to stop the purchase if the product is faulty. Anybody else had this problem or know the trick to using your CC directly?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

MTB Pilot said:


> Interesting!:skep: I tried to order a set of rims, but it would only take me to PayPal to complete the order. Even in PayPal it wouldn't let me select a credit card over my balance or bank account. It shows they take all the CCs at the bottom of their page, but I was unable to figure out how to use them.
> 
> I didn't complete the transaction, because I want a way to stop the purchase if the product is faulty. Anybody else had this problem or know the trick to using your CC directly?


I have come across this with paypal before yes - what I did to force it to use the CC on file was temporarily remove my bank account within paypal - from there I go and do a transaction with the only account being the CC left on file. Once complete it is a matter of minutes to re-add the bank account in paypal if so desired. :thumbsup:


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

MTB Pilot said:


> Interesting!:skep: I tried to order a set of rims, but it would only take me to PayPal to complete the order. Even in PayPal it wouldn't let me select a credit card over my balance or bank account. It shows they take all the CCs at the bottom of their page, but I was unable to figure out how to use them.
> 
> I didn't complete the transaction, because I want a way to stop the purchase if the product is faulty. Anybody else had this problem or know the trick to using your CC directly?


It works for me... After logging into paypal, where it says pay now, and shows your shipping address, below that it says payment options and gives you the option to change. Click that and it takes you to a page where you can select your credit card from a drop down box, assuming you have CC's linked to your paypal acct.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Got it to work. Had to transfer the available balance to my bank, so it would let me use a card. Never ran into that problem before.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

MTB Pilot said:


> Got it to work. Had to transfer the available balance to my bank, so it would let me use a card. Never ran into that problem before.


Weird... I always have a balance in PP, but usually use a card for payments with no problems. I wonder if that's because it's an overseas vendor or something...?


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

D'oh...i am now short one rim. 

Cracked my rear today on a ride down one of the typical rock gardens we ride in and I was doing mach 1. Heard a weird clunk.

Kept riding, all seemed fine. A couple hours after i got home, I was a the playground with my kids and thought I would do my usual inspection of the wheels and found a lot more scratches and found a sizeable crack. It was difficult to see but I could feel it.

Took the tire off to put my Flow back on and found another smaller crack on the other side of the rim and both had split the top of the beads about 10cm.

I didn't lose any air pressure or burp sealant when I was riding at the time, so I assumed all was good. Kinda sucks. I was really hoping to get more than two months out of them.

To be fair, I was flying. Too fast for that section, as I have pinch flatted there too many times to count over the last 15 years. An aluminum rim would have been dented, I am sure. I tried to hop over some of the sharp stuff and timed it poorly. Mea culpa.

Now I have to scoop up another one. Or just sell the new hubs and keep riding my old flows.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Nvm..


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

Gunnar-man said:


> D'oh...i am now short one rim.
> 
> Cracked my rear today on a ride down one of the typical rock gardens we ride in and I was doing mach 1. Heard a weird clunk.
> 
> ...


Can you provide us some pics? Sucks; Sorry to hear that! What kind of application were you using them for, AM or DH? Did you have the standard rims or beefed up?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Gunnar-man said:


> .
> Or just sell the new hubs and keep riding my old flows.


what hubs?


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Gunnar-man said:


> D'oh...i am now short one rim.
> 
> Cracked my rear today on a ride down one of the typical rock gardens we ride in and I was doing mach 1. Heard a weird clunk.
> 
> ...


What pressure where your tires set at?


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

I was riding AM/XC (don't really understand the need for the industry to differentiate, myself) on a loop here called Pneuma/Moosepackers/Ridgeback and using about 28psi and am about 195-200lbs kitted up. The entire loop is about 31km and lots of loose, sharp rock. 

They are the standard rims with Chris king hubs.

I was gettting cocky. I had such a good experience with them up to that point that I was being overly confident. I had ridden the same trail last weekend and flown down all the rock gardens and had a couple of chips taken out of the rear triangle on my Mojo but nothing other than scratches on the rims. I was actually running about 23psi last weekend and thought that was pushing the limit so I pumped it up before we started the descent. 

I am impressed that i rode out with them like that. I rode at least 7km more after I did it. And if it wasn't that rock garden, I actually rode 13km from the other rock garden. But dunno for sure.

Here are the photos:


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## Nelson34 (Apr 21, 2009)

So I took my new wheels out today and WOW! Very stiff and no problems. I know I need to be cautious with them in certain areas like Rocky Ridge but I think they should do just fine for most of the trails I ride. Will update once I have some more miles on them.


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## smellurfingers (Aug 18, 2012)

Gunnar-man said:


> I was riding AM/XC (don't really understand the need for the industry to differentiate, myself) on a loop here called Pneuma/Moosepackers/Ridgeback and using about 28psi and am about 195-200lbs kitted up. The entire loop is about 31km and lots of loose, sharp rock.
> 
> They are the standard rims with Chris king hubs.
> 
> ...


If you don't know why to differentiate between XC and AM, you aren't doing on or the other.

I would be concerned with the cracks as this is a precursor to carbon failure.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I just mounted tires up on these rims for the first time. I have the wider 26" rims and I was using Continental Race King 2.2 Race Sports. I will be doing a supersonic and a protection later today. Race kings in my experience with DT Swiss aluminum rims fit very loosely, you can easily put them on by hand and the bead seats at like 5 psi (so low it doesn't pop). I'm running tubes right now.

With these rims I tried to use Roval rim tape but it wouldn't stick, so then I used 16mm velox tape and wasn't really able to seat the bead. The bead would pull the tape sideways and interfere with the bead seating so then I went back to the Roval tape and it stuck (I assume the velox tape helped clean the rim) and using soapy water was able to get the bead to seat but had to inflate the tube to 50 psi! Thankfully everything seated properly and it seems great. Gonna take them for a ride now!


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

This amazing thread has inspired me to build a custom wheelset using these rims, needless to say I'm very excited.

I've ordered a 20mm Hope Pro 2 Evo Front hub and a DT 240S rear hub which to me seemed well worth the money for weight and the ability to change axle sizes down the road. Also once I saw DT's ratchet system I knew it was the hub for me, simple and elegant.

I have not decided on spokes though (3X both wheels, 32H)... I'm thinking about one of these:
Sapim CX-Ray (I'm willing to pay the extra $ for these if it makes sense)
Sapim Laser
DT Revolution

I'm 180 lbs geared up and ride a Trans AM (Steel HT with a 150mm fork). I want light wheels but obviously don't want to replace the spokes every ride. I live in Calgary and the trails are rocky and roots and sometimes muddy and snowy. Is a 1.5MM dia. cross section a bad idea?

Second question:
I saw someone comment on matte vs glossy finish and that the matte finish might be less resilient and more prone to UV damage. Is that a legitimate concern?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

sraak said:


> This amazing thread has inspired me to build a custom wheelset using these rims, needless to say I'm very excited.
> 
> I've ordered a 20mm Hope Pro 2 Evo Front hub and a DT 240S rear hub which to me seemed well worth the money for weight and the ability to change axle sizes down the road. Also once I saw DT's ratchet system I knew it was the hub for me, simple and elegant.
> 
> ...


The narrower cross section of the spoke doesn't make it weaker for normal conditions. Maybe it's not as strong if you get a stick in there, but honestly if the stick breaks a cx-ray it will at least bend a normal spoke beyond use.

I went with matte rims, not really worried about UV, not really convinced there's any difference between matte and glossy, I've never seen any real evidence.


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

Thanks for the advice. Yes I suppose that the failure point of these spokes is at the bend which for these spokes is 2mm anyhow. My worry is more around the rigidity/flexibility of the wheel, my concern is that the smaller diameter and resulting lower tension will make them have a little more flex. I like to think of spokes as being springs with really really high spring constants... So I reason that a larger diameter will produce a higher spring constant, ei. stiffer wheel.

I'm just going to try out some 2-1.5-2 spokes and see how it works out. Either way they will be vary nicer than my current wheel set.

Re: matte/glossy. You might be right. My experience with repairing sailboats makes me think that some sort of hard protective coating should be there... That being said, I ordered some matte UD's so that's that.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

I have just built up a set of these and everything looks great but the tire bead will not go into place on one side. I spent all night inflating/de and wetting the bead. tried 60 psi. left it overnight. I always use tubes. still won't set. It's not the tire because it always went on quickly on the other wheel it was on. I won't have these very long if they are going to be such a pain. Anyone think I got a bad rim?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

jimonthecake said:


> I have just built up a set of these and everything looks great but the tire bead will not go into place on one side. I spent all night inflating/de and wetting the bead. tried 60 psi. left it overnight. I always use tubes. still won't set. It's not the tire because it always went on quickly on the other wheel it was on. I won't have these very long if they are going to be such a pain. Anyone think I got a bad rim?


Another guy had this problem a few weeks back, cried about it forever... He tried to send them back, but not sure how it was resolved.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

jimonthecake said:


> I have just built up a set of these and everything looks great but the tire bead will not go into place on one side. I spent all night inflating/de and wetting the bead. tried 60 psi. left it overnight. I always use tubes. still won't set. It's not the tire because it always went on quickly on the other wheel it was on. I won't have these very long if they are going to be such a pain. Anyone think I got a bad rim?


A few people had similar issues, myself included. The thing that finally worked for me was using liquid hand soap directly, without adding water. I just used a foam brush and painted a thin layer on the tire bead and on the rhythm rim strip. After that I pumped it up to about 50 psi and the tires poped into place. Hope that helps


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

jimonthecake said:


> I have just built up a set of these and everything looks great but the tire bead will not go into place on one side. I spent all night inflating/de and wetting the bead. tried 60 psi. left it overnight. I always use tubes. still won't set. It's not the tire because it always went on quickly on the other wheel it was on. I won't have these very long if they are going to be such a pain. Anyone think I got a bad rim?


Try specialized tubeless rim tape (blue). Solved my seating problem as soon as I removed the yellow stans tape and installed the specialized tape. The tape is wider and slicker in my opinion so it helps the tire seat easier.

The rims are still riding great btw.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

jimonthecake said:


> I have just built up a set of these and everything looks great but the tire bead will not go into place on one side. I spent all night inflating/de and wetting the bead. tried 60 psi. left it overnight. I always use tubes. still won't set. It's not the tire because it always went on quickly on the other wheel it was on. I won't have these very long if they are going to be such a pain. Anyone think I got a bad rim?


What tape are you using? Is the tape shifting and preventing or making it difficult for the bead to seat?


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

Thanks all. I am using schwalbe rim tape which is thin and sticky backed. I pulled it out and cut it narrower to only fit in the deepest groove. No help. I raced this rear wheel last night for about 16 miles on a rutty rooty rocky course at 40 psi hoping it would seat but nope. I am going to look at sanding the area down a bit to see if soemething needs to be smoothed out.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

just use some grease on the part of the tire that wont pop.
than air it up to 45PSI.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

Anyone using the 36 hole version of this wheel ? Would love feedback if anyone has a set please .


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

Tried another rim strip that covered the whole width of rim and couldn't get the tire on at all. I give up. I can't deal with this every time I switch tires. I want to smash this rim into the ground. But not till I take the hub out. I'll have to send them an email. Haven't even tried the front yet.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

jimonthecake what tires were you trying? I'm hoping they weren't schwable as I just ordered some...


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

Yes, Schwalbe. But it's not the tires. I put it back on my aluminum mavic and pumped it up to 40 and the bead is set and off I went. No hassle. I have 4 schwalbes that i switch around on the rear for whatever conditions. I wanted these rims for strength and width after finding all the cracks in the dtswiss rim i used to have.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

I'm not a fan of Schwalbe. I have the best of luck with Specialized tires. After switching to the wider rim strip my tires seated with no effort (2.2 Ground Control and 2.0 Fast Trak s-works). The rear tire seated just fine with the narrow rim strip. 

I had to take the wheels to a shop that had a large compressor though. My small compressor would not force enough air to seat the tires. I usually have this problem with all my tires and rims when I first install them. 

I had the worst luck seating continental Xking tires. I fussed with them for 2 days before finally getting them to air up only to have them constantly leak and finally roll of the rim during a ride.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

I never had a problem with the Schwalbes on any other rim new or old or whatever. It is definately this China rim that I have. Plus I use tubes so this should not be so difficult.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

From what I went through, my advice is to install and inflate a tire on the rim before ya build it. I put a tire on the rim before I built it up but didn't inflate. The rim did look good on the bike though.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

I've never had a problem ever with any Schwalbe tires with tubes or without .


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

aedubber said:


> I've never had a problem ever with any Schwalbe tires with tubes or without .


I think the latest batch of rims from light-bicycle must have slightly bigger diameter on the bead seat. I ordered 2 rims off the in-stock list in mid-August and I also had issues seating the bead(only tried schwalbe nobby nics).

I got it to work eventually by using un-diluted liquid hand soap and 50-55 psi but it was definitely not easy.

I don't switch tires until they wear out so no big deal for me but I can see how it would be a big PITA if one likes to switch tires frequently.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

pwu_1 said:


> I think the latest batch of rims from light-bicycle must have slightly bigger diameter on the bead seat. I ordered 2 rims off the in-stock list in mid-August and I also had issues seating the bead(only tried schwalbe nobby nics).
> 
> I got it to work eventually by using un-diluted liquid hand soap and 50-55 psi but it was definitely not easy.
> 
> I don't switch tires until they wear out so no big deal for me but I can see how it would be a big PITA if one likes to switch tires frequently.


I've been on vacation to Lake Tahoe with these rims this week and they have been amazing. Got some serious scratches in the sides of them from rocks but these wheels are way better than my old dt 240/ dt swiss 4.2d wheels.

I mounted up some Kenda Nevegal 2.35" tires to these rims today (tires say max pressure 50psi) and was having difficulty with soapy water (I'm using tubes and roval rim tape, not using stans when changing tires a lot), then I got some Palmolive and put a line of soap all the way around the bead of the tire on both sides and the bead seated at around 40psi no problems. Once I figured it out the other wheel didn't take long. For comparison my friend who has some DT Swiss wheels (not carbon) had to go to 50 psi to get his dry Nevegals to seat on his DT rims. I've never had Schwable tires before (still on their way, DHL is just sitting on them) but I'd be surprised if they are so tight that this technique wont work.

When I took my race kings off today it was very reassuring that with no air in the tubes the race kings took some force to knock the bead off into the valley of the rim. I think they will work very well tubeless, much better than my old DT Swiss rims (even the 4.1 that are tubeless rims).


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

litany said:


> I've been on vacation to Lake Tahoe with these rims this week and they have been amazing. Got some serious scratches in the sides of them from rocks but these wheels are way better than my old dt 240/ dt swiss 4.2d wheels.
> 
> I mounted up some Kenda Nevegal 2.35" tires to these rims today (tires say max pressure 50psi) and was having difficulty with soapy water (I'm using tubes and roval rim tape, not using stans when changing tires a lot), then I got some Palmolive and put a line of soap all the way around the bead of the tire on both sides and the bead seated at around 40psi no problems. Once I figured it out the other wheel didn't take long. For comparison my friend who has some DT Swiss wheels (not carbon) had to go to 50 psi to get his dry Nevegals to seat on his DT rims. I've never had Schwable tires before (still on their way, DHL is just sitting on them) but I'd be surprised if they are so tight that this technique wont work.
> 
> When I took my race kings off today it was very reassuring that with no air in the tubes the race kings took some force to knock the bead off into the valley of the rim. I think they will work very well tubeless, much better than my old DT Swiss rims (even the 4.1 that are tubeless rims).


That's funny I was up in Tahoe this past weekend too! We only rode on Saturday though since we were up there with family. We were in south Tahoe and rode power line to cold creek to star lake to Tahoe rim trail and finished with van sickle

I was able to mount schwalbe nobby nics using straight soap and about 50 psi with rhythm strips


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

pwu_1 said:


> That's funny I was up in Tahoe this past weekend too! We only rode on Saturday though since we were up there with family. We were in south Tahoe and rode power line to cold creek to star lake to Tahoe rim trail and finished with van sickle
> 
> I was able to mount schwalbe nobby nics using straight soap and about 50 psi with rhythm strips


How do the rythm strips work? I put some on and there seemed to be very little room for the bead and it looked like it would be difficult for the bead to slide in place. Is this not the case? Were you running them tubeless?

Yeah I've been doing a lot of rim trail. I think the part from the top of 50 towards kingsbury is really good. Just doing a quick out and back to the bench is a lot of fun as well. The downhill is really fast and flowy, tons of fun. There are a lot of loose rocks though that my tires seem to be kicking up into the rims and are scratching them, but there's no real damage so I don't mind. The rims are holding up quite well. I'll take pictures when I get back but I'm glad I didn't get Enves otherwise everyone would constantly remark about how beat to hell they are! I've got about 100 miles of rim trail on them in the last week, plenty of rocks, roots, drops, ledges etc.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

litany said:


> How do the rythm strips work? I put some on and there seemed to be very little room for the bead and it looked like it would be difficult for the bead to slide in place. Is this not the case? Were you running them tubeless?
> 
> Yeah I've been doing a lot of rim trail. I think the part from the top of 50 towards kingsbury is really good. Just doing a quick out and back to the bench is a lot of fun as well. The downhill is really fast and flowy, tons of fun. There are a lot of loose rocks though that my tires seem to be kicking up into the rims and are scratching them, but there's no real damage so I don't mind. The rims are holding up quite well. I'll take pictures when I get back but I'm glad I didn't get Enves otherwise everyone would constantly remark about how beat to hell they are! I've got about 100 miles of rim trail on them in the last week, plenty of rocks, roots, drops, ledges etc.


Rhythm strips work pretty good for me. I've never taped a rim using Stans yellow tape before(and I didn't watch the how-to video till after I got the strips) so I totally botched it when I tried to tape the rim.
Anyway, I'm running Schwalbe nobby nics tubeless using the rhythm strips right now. The only issue I'm having is I'm getting slight leakage around the valve hole. But this could be because I'm using the stan's valves instead of the bontrager valves that were designed for the rhythm strips. 
Once I figured out the trick using straight soap to seat the bead it was fairly easy with an air compressor.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Got my rims the other day and in the process of building them up. (going to take a couple of weeks as very little time in the day) Weights were 371g and 372g for the 3K finish.

One rim looks perfect and the other is almost, but where the joins are inside the rim there is a step each time where they seem to not be perfectly aligned. I feel I may be sanding this down as will probably mean I will struggle to seat the tyre. Still impressed but just wished they drilled the holes more stepped left and right as they look like they have drilled down the middle of the rim.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> Rhythm strips work pretty good for me. I've never taped a rim using Stans yellow tape before(and I didn't watch the how-to video till after I got the strips) so I totally botched it when I tried to tape the rim.
> Anyway, I'm running Schwalbe nobby nics tubeless using the rhythm strips right now. The only issue I'm having is I'm getting slight leakage around the valve hole. But this could be because I'm using the stan's valves instead of the bontrager valves that were designed for the rhythm strips.
> Once I figured out the trick using straight soap to seat the bead it was fairly easy with an air compressor.


For those of you having a hard time seating the bead on the tight bead seat, but eventually get it, do you ever check your spoke tension after that? I'm curious if it drops at all...


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> For those of you having a hard time seating the bead on the tight bead seat, but eventually get it, do you ever check your spoke tension after that? I'm curious if it drops at all...


Spoke tension did drop on mine. But I thought that is normal for all rims/tires regardless of whether the tire was tight or not.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

pwu_1 said:


> Spoke tension did drop on mine. But I thought that is normal for all rims/tires regardless of whether the tire was tight or not.


Yeah, it's normal, usually 5-10kgf at the most. But, for instance, last year I built up a set of 29er carbon rims in a 28 hole and mounted Hutchinson Bulldog CX's on there. It was a super tight fit, barely got them on and when pumped up the wheels had lost about 30kgf.

It's not a real issue, I was just curious if people were checking...


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

mattsavage said:


> Yeah, it's normal, usually 5-10kgf at the most. But, for instance, last year I built up a set of 29er carbon rims in a 28 hole and mounted Hutchinson Bulldog CX's on there. It was a super tight fit, barely got them on and when pumped up the wheels had lost about 30kgf.
> 
> It's not a real issue, I was just curious if people were checking...


I haven't checked but here are my thoughts on it.

The tire itself wont cause much drop in spoke tension. The bead fits tight but not extremely tight and as the bead is quite narrow the total amount of pressure on the rim won't be very high. Most of the pressure on the rim would likely come from the air in the tire/tube as that presses on a much, much larger area of the rim than the bead. The bead pressure would probably have to be more than 10x the psi in the tire for them to be equal.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Anyone with seating issues.....

****** USE 100% DISH SOAP not "soap and water" *******

That is all...


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm done with this. I tried straight palmolive soap. Still not seating. The China guy told me to try straight soap, pump to 15 psi and beat the tire, fill to 45 and let sit over night, and use roval strips and specialized tires. Tried it, (except roval,specilized) and I don't want to use that. I have the edges like someone said where it looks like they were sanded down from not lining up evenly. I am going to tear these a part and go back to the aluminum rims unless someone wants to buy these and deal with this. Yaw right.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

jimonthecake said:


> I'm done with this. I tried straight palmolive soap. Still not seating. The China guy told me to try straight soap, pump to 15 psi and beat the tire, fill to 45 and let sit over night, and use roval strips and specialized tires. Tried it, (except roval,specilized) and I don't want to use that. I have the edges like someone said where it looks like they were sanded down from not lining up evenly. I am going to tear these a part and go back to the aluminum rims unless someone wants to buy these and deal with this. Yaw right.


I will take em off your hands for the right price


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

I should say they are communicating with me and sounds like they are going to try and fix this.


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

Extra data points: I just received 6 rims for a couple of mates and me to build up. We ordered 2x normal and 4x extra strong. What arrived was the following:

2x 370/372g. ERD 540
2x 398g. ERD 541
2x 424g. ERD 541

So two are extra extra heavy duty. This might work out well and I intend to use the heaviest ones for the rear wheels. 

ERD was measured at 4 points on each rim and was very consistent ie within 0.5 mm in all cases.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

highaltitude said:


> Extra data points: I just received 6 rims for a couple of mates and me to build up. We ordered 2x normal and 4x extra strong. What arrived was the following:
> 
> 2x 370/372g. ERD 540
> 2x 398g. ERD 541
> ...


Yeah, it's very important to measure ERD of your rims!


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

why is the ERD so different from rim to rim? Is this a quality control issue or is this just typical of carbon rims? Do ENVE rims vary this much?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

ttengineer said:


> why is the ERD so different from rim to rim? Is this a quality control issue or is this just typical of carbon rims? Do ENVE rims vary this much?


I've never done my spoke calculations before I did on 4 of these rims but from what I've read even with aluminum rims which are extruded out of a die, you're still supposed to measure ERD.

It makes sense that the "stronger" rims will have a larger ERD as they have more material which will make the walls thicker.

Why is there variance otherwise? I am by no means an expert but just thinking about it I imagine it comes down to how precisely the sections are cut and laid up and how the resin flows (its flow out of the rim will certainly vary rim to rim, subtle things, even stuff like how the bladder moves or variances in it can probably effect this) and maybe how the design has changed over time.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Just finished my first endurance race on the Chinese carbon rims. The race lasted 8 hours and was at night. A storm popped up just before the start and dumped on the trails, which made them a muddy slippery mess. The rims performed great and I've come to trust them. 

I've been riding these rims like I hate them for about a month now and have experienced zero issues with them. I will be ordering another set in 29er flavor.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ttengineer said:


> why is the ERD so different from rim to rim? Is this a quality control issue or is this just typical of carbon rims? Do ENVE rims vary this much?


I think some of it is manufacturing tolerance and some of it is different people measure ERD differently. If same person is getting different ERD then I would be more concerned


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

pwu_1 said:


> I think some of it is manufacturing tolerance and some of it is different people measure ERD differently. If same person is getting different ERD then I would be more concerned


+1

until I hear of the same person getting quite different measurements (i.e. more than 2 or 3mm), I am putting it down to people measuring from different spots (including / not including the nipple head etc) or having weird nipples that sit higher/lower in the rim.


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## kramster (May 25, 2006)

I was about to pull the trigger on these, but...

On NSMB there are only 2 people who have tried these rims, and both have had them fail in a very short time. One was just 2 days ago, just as I was about to buy some based on this thread here. This is not very reassuring as you would imagine. 

Are the people who are having success riding different terrain perhaps? 

Are there some people here that would describe themselves as being very aggressive riders on rough high speed terrain with big jumps, who usually ding aluminium rims in short order, who have had success with these rims? If so, please speak up and let me know how you've whacked them on rocks and thought they'd be smashed but they weren't. I'd kinda like to hear a few examples like that so I can chalk up the other 2 local stories as bad luck. I really want to like these rims, but I don't want to end up like those guys in 2 weeks.

Thanks for your feedback.


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## Stumpjumpy (Sep 7, 2011)

Fail how?


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

kramster said:


> I was about to pull the trigger on these, but...
> 
> On NSMB there are only 2 people who have tried these rims, and both have had them fail in a very short time. One was just 2 days ago, just as I was about to buy some based on this thread here. This is not very reassuring as you would imagine.
> 
> ...


My aluminum rims usually have tons of dings and paint chips, especially my rear rim. I don't destroy rims, but I definitely put them through the ringer. I usually run "freeride" type rims so that they hold up more than one season. I've had the chinese carbons for almost 3 months of pretty hard abuse on my Knolly Chilcotin. My final verdict is cautiously out, but so far they've been bomber on some really gnarly trails. A few small scrapes from rocks as expected, but no major damage.


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## kramster (May 25, 2006)

Stumpjumpy said:


> Fail how?


Not catastrophic. You can see photos and details in this thread on NSMB $140 carbon rims - Page 2 - North Shore Mountain Biking Forums



fanderson said:


> My aluminum rims usually have tons of dings and paint chips, especially my rear rim. I don't destroy rims, but I definitely put them through the ringer. I usually run "freeride" type rims so that they hold up more than one season. I've had the chinese carbons for almost 3 months of pretty hard abuse on my Knolly Chilcotin. My final verdict is cautiously out, but so far they've been bomber on some really gnarly trails. A few small scrapes from rocks as expected, but no major damage.


Cheers. Sounds pretty good.

I have been running the same 823 on the rear of my Nomad for pedaling duties for a couple of season now which is the first rim that has lasted for me. It's very heavy for what is my 'XC' bike and it just got even heavier because I just put a full DH casing tire (Minion DHRII 3C with stans goo) as I just get too many flats with Ignitor LUST tires I was using. The Ignitor would still pinchflat when tubeless through the carcass and then I'd put a tube in it and flat incessantly, so I have to throw them away after 1 flat which happened on the first ride last time. Makes for a very heavy rear wheel (but amazing traction both up and down) and I'd like to lighten it up, but I have no luck running lighter rims such as 819's on the rear which get all wobbly in a few rides (they are fine in the front, even on my V10). I run 35psi on the rear on my trail bike, so I rarely bottom the rim out, but when I do it usually doesn't end well. I'm hoping these rims could be a solution for me because I think I'd get divorce if I bought a pair of Enve DH rims, but pedaling an 850g rim with a 1250g tire on it is a little tiresome.


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

why is the ERD so different from rim to rim? Is this a quality control issue or is this just typical of carbon rims? Do ENVE rims vary this much?

The method I use to measure ERD takes the nipple heads into account. I thread spokes and nipples in opposite holes on the rim them put a rubber band on the j-bends of the spokes to pull them tight. I measure the gap between the nipples then add 2 nipple lengths. This is compatible with the Lenni spoke calculator that I use.


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## aedubber (Apr 17, 2011)

CRC has a good deal on some E-13 wheels that are light and strong .


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Well I got my new wider rims a few weeks back and managed to finish building up the wheels last week. Got to say they make a really true wheel and are very easy to build with and it was my first attempt at wheel building. Problem starts when you try and mount a tyre to them!! :madmax: 

I'm having the same problems as a few others have reported where I get a segment of tyre where the bead won't seat properly opposite the valve. I'm running tubeless with the Hans Damph tyres. I have managed to get half of that segment on both sides to seat after several attempts, so on the positive side I believe I will get the whole tyre to seat properly one day!! The tyres do hold air as well. :thumbsup:

I have tried both the bonty rim strips and gorilla tape, loads of pure washing up liquid, moto cross bead cream and also heating the tyre up in the tumble dryer. Heating the tyre up got me the best results but as I'm in the UK the tyre cooled considerably before I got lube on the rim and mounted it, I will persist over the weekend when I get more time. I also have the Park tool tyre seating tool on the way to me so I'm hoping that will help as its a rather expensive tol for what looks like a bit of a bodge job!!


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

ruscle said:


> Well I got my new wider rims a few weeks back and managed to finish building up the wheels last week. Got to say they make a really true wheel and are very easy to build with and it was my first attempt at wheel building. Problem starts when you try and mount a tyre to them!! :madmax:
> 
> I'm having the same problems as a few others have reported where I get a segment of tyre where the bead won't seat properly opposite the valve. I'm running tubeless with the Hans Damph tyres. I have managed to get half of that segment on both sides to seat after several attempts, so on the positive side I believe I will get the whole tyre to seat properly one day!! The tyres do hold air as well. :thumbsup:
> 
> I have tried both the bonty rim strips and gorilla tape, loads of pure washing up liquid, moto cross bead cream and also heating the tyre up in the tumble dryer. Heating the tyre up got me the best results but as I'm in the UK the tyre cooled considerably before I got lube on the rim and mounted it, I will persist over the weekend when I get more time. I also have the Park tool tyre seating tool on the way to me so I'm hoping that will help as its a rather expensive tol for what looks like a bit of a bodge job!!


How much pressure are you pumping the tire up to?
For my Nobby Nics, I had to use liquid hand soap(mount the tire, then use a foam brush to brush a thin layer on both the tire bead and the rhythm strip) pump the front(2.4) to over 50 psi to seat the bead(I used a compressor to get it to about 30-35 psi, then switched to floor pump and pumped it up slowly by hand to about 52psi). The rear (2.25) seated at about 48 psi using same method described above.
Hope that helps. good luck!


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

> How much pressure are you pumping the tire up to?
> For my Nobby Nics, I had to use liquid hand soap(mount the tire, then use a foam brush to brush a thin layer on both the tire bead and the rhythm strip) pump the front(2.4) to over 50 psi to seat the bead(I used a compressor to get it to about 30-35 psi, then switched to floor pump and pumped it up slowly by hand to about 52psi). The rear (2.25) seated at about 48 psi using same method described above.
> Hope that helps. good luck!


Cheers, My floor pump pressure gage is rubbish. I have been pumping them up till they are really hard, I'm a little concerned with the pictures of blowing up rims and tyres so scared to go to high on the pressure!


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

*How to seat the bead properly*

Update on the tyre seating issue. After pwu_1's reply I had a little time so decided to man up a little and just kept pumping the tyres up slowly and holding my breath while looking away !!

Well would you believe after about 55-60 compressions of the track pump I heard a dull pop  :thumbsup: Worked on both tyres. Can't wait to give them a thrashing.

Cheers pwu_1


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Subscribing.... For the futuuuuuuuuure


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

So, I ordered a new set of rims, figuring I would give LB one more chance after I cracked my rear rim in two spots, as posted last month.

While they were coming, I saw some posts in the 29er Carbon rim thread from Bortis Yelltzen who works with CF and he repaired a friend's rim with some epoxy, sand paper and patience.

I decided since it is pretty much the end of season here, i had nothing to lose by trying to fix my rim and if it didn't work, no biggie.

I had to use a plastics super glue instead of the composite epoxy Bortis used. Didn't have any teflon release film either so there was alot of "creative license" with my repair. 

Anyways, I have been out for two rides on my wheels and today. So far so good. The fixed areas have not shown any cracks and no pressure loss.

My finishing work leaves a lot to be desired but i will take performance over looks right now


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

My 650b rims shipped!:thumbsup:


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

ruscle said:


> Update on the tyre seating issue. After pwu_1's reply I had a little time so decided to man up a little and just kept pumping the tyres up slowly and holding my breath while looking away !!
> 
> Well would you believe after about 55-60 compressions of the track pump I heard a dull pop  :thumbsup: Worked on both tyres. Can't wait to give them a thrashing.
> 
> Cheers pwu_1


ruscle - this is not directed at you, please don't take offense. but your realization made me think, perhaps the guys who had issues with seating a tire don't realize how much pressure a tire can take before it blows off a rim. And I wonder if they have ever seated a UST bead before. I understand this is NOT a UST rim/tire, but the experience certainly helps you understand the limitations of a floor pump and the extreme forces at work here.

My point being, if you inflated to 40psi with a floor pump you stopped well short of the danger zone. You need the power of an air compressor and a bit of nerve to really POP that sucker on there. After you've done a few UST DH tires on Mavic 823s you'll come to love that moment! "whoa, this is getting a little scary...oh man...come on...is this thing going to....POP POP! AH YEAH!!!! NICE!!!!" Floor pumps are fine to reach trail-riding pressure, but an air compressor is where its at for overinflating and seating a tire properly.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

The China guy told me not to inflate the tire over 65 or the rim will be damaged. I only got one half of the tire bead to seat. I let the bike shop try with a compressor and their tool that grabs the tire and works it. I use tubes. Tried other tires. not gonna happen for my set.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

jimonthecake said:


> The China guy told me not to inflate the tire over 65 or the rim will be damaged. I only got one half of the tire bead to seat. I let the bike shop try with a compressor and their tool that grabs the tire and works it. I use tubes. Tried other tires. not gonna happen for my set.


Ah ok. That sucks. Sorry you're having this trouble. I'm actually about to pull the trigger on a set myself but this issue is a concern. Sure, $300 IS cheap for carbon but its not throw away money.


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

I just received 4 26" wide rims. I picked out of the in stock list, all 4 rims weigh 360 grams on my scale. I've looked over each rim and bead and everything looks good. 

I just threw a Continental trail king UST tire with a tube on a rim (not built into a wheel yet) and inflated it after a little dish soap on the rim. It appeared to have seated fine, I'm not concerned that I'll have problems mounting my tires once these are built up.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

RTM said:


> ruscle - this is not directed at you, please don't take offense. but your realization made me think, perhaps the guys who had issues with seating a tire don't realize how much pressure a tire can take before it blows off a rim. And I wonder if they have ever seated a UST bead before. I understand this is NOT a UST rim/tire, but the experience certainly helps you understand the limitations of a floor pump and the extreme forces at work here.
> 
> My point being, if you inflated to 40psi with a floor pump you stopped well short of the danger zone. You need the power of an air compressor and a bit of nerve to really POP that sucker on there. After you've done a few UST DH tires on Mavic 823s you'll come to love that moment! "whoa, this is getting a little scary...oh man...come on...is this thing going to....POP POP! AH YEAH!!!! NICE!!!!" Floor pumps are fine to reach trail-riding pressure, but an air compressor is where its at for overinflating and seating a tire properly.


No offense taken.

I bought a better floor pump which I can actually use the pressure gauge on and realised I wasn't inflating to 50psi before. In the past I used to inflate tubeless tyres till they were rock hard, but reading a few things about exploding rims/tyres made me nervous.

The Hans damph tyres I was trying to seat and managed to in the end seem to have a defect as there is a wobble in them even though they are seated evenly, so I have been swapping all my spare tyres onto these rims to make sure its the tyres that are deformed and not the rims fault. Every time the tyres seat perfectly around 50psi so I don't actually think there is a problem with the rims just the people which are trying to install the tyres. Changing tyres to the ever faithful Conti Rubber Queens 2.2 UST (Trail King in the U.S.)

Great rims and I will be buying more in the future to stock pile as spares if I ever need them.


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## PainkillerSPE (Feb 15, 2009)

Took home a third place finish in the open/expert category at my 6 hour race yesterday with these rims. Banged the rims on rocks a few times and nothing but a few scratches. Over a month of hard use and these are still true and working great!


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## tahoeyeti (Oct 19, 2003)

ruscle said:


> No offense taken.
> 
> I bought a better floor pump which I can actually use the pressure gauge on and realised I wasn't inflating to 50psi before. In the past I used to inflate tubeless tyres till they were rock hard, but reading a few things about exploding rims/tyres made me nervous.
> 
> ...


Rock hard is WAY too much pressure. I usually run about 23 psi front and 26 psi rear, and depending on your weight, riding style, and how chunky your trails are you could go as low as 18 psi.


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## pwu_1 (Nov 19, 2007)

tahoeyeti said:


> Rock hard is WAY too much pressure. I usually run about 23 psi front and 26 psi rear, and depending on your weight, riding style, and how chunky your trails are you could go as low as 18 psi.


I think he was only talking about pumping the tires to rock hard to get the bead to seat.


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

For those that built their own - how much spoke tension are you using on these rims?


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

highaltitude said:


> For those that built their own - how much spoke tension are you using on these rims?


Built mine to 110-120


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

highaltitude said:


> For those that built their own - how much spoke tension are you using on these rims?


Front: 120kgf disc side
Rear: 160kgf drive side

holding up just fine!


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

tahoeyeti said:


> Rock hard is WAY too much pressure. I usually run about 23 psi front and 26 psi rear, and depending on your weight, riding style, and how chunky your trails are you could go as low as 18 psi.


Some would call 35psi rock hard, and I would call 18psi damn near flat.

I NEED to run 35psi on the rear, and 32psi in the front, unless running full on 1200g DH tires.

There are no "rules" with tire pressure.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

thuren said:


> there are no rules for tire pressure


precisely! In fact, for riding purposes I don't even bother with the guage, just give the tire a squeeze.

By the way, tahoeyeti, we were talking about temporary pressures for seating a bead. I think we could all agree that 50-60 PSI would be ludicrous for any type of off-road riding.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Going to be riding mine for the first time on sunday, can't wait as I built them up a month back and haven't had the time since I managed to seat some tyres! Bought conti rubber queens 2.2 ust for them as they are a large tyre so thought the depth would help protect the rim. Once I got the tyres on and seated (very easy) its clear that they are no longer the over sized tyres they used to be! Still great tyres though. Will report back once rode them a few times.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

I'd like to run a set of matte finish rims tubeless. Would thee be an advantage to asking for a gloss finish on the inner channel of the rims? Better sealing, or air tightness maybe?


- Rob


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

RTM said:


> I'd like to run a set of matte finish rims tubeless. Would thee be an advantage to asking for a gloss finish on the inner channel of the rims? Better sealing, or air tightness maybe?
> 
> - Rob


No.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

*re: my wheelsets....*

Howdy,

Thought i'd put some useful feedback up here for everyone.
I've got 2 sets of 30mm AM Carbon rims, 1set 32h on American Classics (1505g), and 1set 24h on Sun Ringle's (1475g).

I ordered them with 3k Matte finish, and Pillar 1420 spokes at the same time.
ERD was 536mm on all 4 rims measured at multiple points.

They built up really easily, but would probably recommend using internal nipple washers, as they don't angle the internal nipple hole. So the nipples want to point straight out and not at the actual spoke angle.
Example washers here: "bdopcycling.com/Pillar-Nipples and Washers.asp"
Built them up with linseed oil, and tensioned to 120/160Kgf (disc/drive rear, and non-disc/disc front).

I've taken the american classic 32h set out in anger the other day, and gave them a good working over on a 10m loop, and some really rough DH runs.
They've held their tension fine, although the nipples have now bedded into the rim at the correct spoke angle. Really really surprised how strong the pillar spokes have built up with the wheels!

Tubeless.........
Now this was a right PITA, but they do work and work well.
The biggest issue for me was the tyre not sealing initially due to the deep internal channel. I ended up making a rim strip out of a 20in tube cutting it into the right width. Once the rim strip was in the tyre was able to seal just enough to seat up on the bead correctly. (although I really really had to work at it with my track pump!!) 
This would be way easier it you actually used a correct rim strip, like the bontrager strip.
I just used a bontrager tubeless bolt in presta valve and my bodged bmx tube.
This may be easier with the non matte finish rim, but mine are running fine.

Tyres being used were: Schwable Fat Albert 2.4, and Nobby Nic 2.4 (tripple evo tubeless ready)

Pics of mine here: "scar4me.pinkbike.com/album/CarbonAMRims/"

Scar


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## czarli (Feb 27, 2011)

Hi,
I am going to buy this rims but I am afraid of putting the tires on that rims. Now I am using Mavic XC 717 disc with tubes and Rocket Ron EVO (not tubeless). I have no problem to put them on or off without any tool. Will I have such problem with the new Chinese rims? Or is the problem only with tubeless tires?


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

czarli said:


> Hi,
> I am going to buy this rims but I am afraid of putting the tires on that rims. Now I am using Mavic XC 717 disc with tubes and Rocket Ron EVO (not tubeless). I have no problem to put them on or off without any tool. Will I have such problem with the new Chinese rims? Or is the problem only with tubeless tires?


I struggled with Schwalbe Hans damph tyres, but had no problems mounting continental rubber queens which are ust tyres. Just keep pumping till they seat as the rims are definitely worth the effort.


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## czarli (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks for answer. What about situation when I get a puncture on the trail (I'm using tubes)? Will it be possible to remove the tire? How is it difficult?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

czarli said:


> Thanks for answer. What about situation when I get a puncture on the trail (I'm using tubes)? Will it be possible to remove the tire? How is it difficult?


Treat it like any other tire and any other rim... Some combo's are easy to work with, some are hard. Bring the right tools.


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## mjiman (Nov 28, 2005)

*Light Bicycle carbon Rims*

I recently built up a pair of the 26" AM carbon rims with CK hubs and DT aerolite spokes. Easy build-more so than flow rims. They are very stiff and true having ridden them a few times. The rims appear to be very high quality. The rim also has a pronouced bead-not sure if this is a knockoff off stans or specialized but it looks like it will really hold a tire in a tubless setup. I used the bontranger rim strips instead of usual stand tape or gorilla tape and installed maxxis Ikon and Ardent tires (non tubeless ready but work great with stans rims). They inflated easily with no stans or soap using a compressor and held air without stans sealant. I was impressed. I have been running with stans sealant with zero problems. There was very little seepage upon first inflation-again very impressive tubelss compatability.


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

What lenght nipple did anyone use 12mm or 14mm?

Also, I'm thinking of building with DT 240s 6 bolts DISC hub. What's the lenght for 3 cross as the calculator came up 259.2 left and 259.1 right and Sapim spoke range are 259mm and next size up is 261mm and also DT Swiss Revo range 259mm next size 260mm? I'm guessing order 259mm, can anyone advise?


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## mjiman (Nov 28, 2005)

I used 12mm dt nipples.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

wannabeRacer said:


> What lenght nipple did anyone use 12mm or 14mm?
> 
> Also, I'm thinking of building with DT 240s 6 bolts DISC hub. What's the lenght for 3 cross as the calculator came up 259.2 left and 259.1 right and Sapim spoke range are 259mm and next size up is 261mm and also DT Swiss Revo range 259mm next size 260mm? I'm guessing order 259mm, can anyone advise?


I couldn't tell if you had a preference for one spoke over the other, but 259mm AND 260mm w/12mm nipples would be fine. If you want the 259, and want extra peace of mind you could go with a 14mm nipple though its not necessary.


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## Eazy_E (Sep 30, 2011)

Tag for interest


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

*Set available for sale....*

Just thought i'd post up here as if someone in the UK wants a set of these the set I made up for a mate is up for sale:
scar4me.pinkbike.com

Would love to keep them along with my other set, but don't earn enough to get away with another bribe to the missus!

Scar


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## czarli (Feb 27, 2011)

scar4me said:


> Just thought i'd post up here as if someone in the UK wants a set of these the set I made up for a mate is up for sale:
> scar4me.pinkbike.com
> 
> Would love to keep them along with my other set, but don't earn enough to get away with another bribe to the missus!
> ...


I am interessted. I will contact you via PM.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Has anybody ordered these without holes in the inner channel? I'm thinking of placing nips with a magnet and a ferrous stub to drag them into place through the valve hole. For you guys who have built them, is there enough room in the cavity to accomplish this?


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

*undrilled inner...*

I wouldn't advise it.
I looked carefully at some of the spoke drillings, and some of them didn't have the cleanest finish on the inside edges, so might scupper you.

Easiest way to get them in would be fishing wire in through the nipple hole, out through the valve hole, put the nipple on, tia knot then pull it through.
But again is risky, especially if there are any remnants of the internal bladder left over stuck in the inside of the rim.

Scar


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

eurotrash666 said:


> Has anybody ordered these without holes in the inner channel? I'm thinking of placing nips with a magnet and a ferrous stub to drag them into place through the valve hole. For you guys who have built them, is there enough room in the cavity to accomplish this?


The normal way rims are drilled at manufacture is from the outside in. Do you know that their jig drills from the inside out? If not, they won't be able to do what you want.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

TigWorld said:


> The normal way rims are drilled at manufacture is from the outside in. Do you know that their jig drills from the inside out? If not, they won't be able to do what you want.


Earlier in the thread someone quoted "Nancy" as having that as an option. It doesn't sound too far fetched to me, considering the Chinese have been known to paint a poem on a grain of rice using a single human hair...


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

I built up the first of 4 wheels I will be building up with these rims. LB wide rim, Hadley 110x20 front hub, DT Swiss revolution spokes and alloy nipples. Wheel weighs 710 grams, once I added a stip of gorilla tape and a Stans valve the weight was 740. 

I put on a used but lots of tread left Continental Trail King UST and it sealed up immediately without even using sealant. It probably helped that this tire has already been mounted on my old front wheel, I just used a little soapy water on the rim and bead. 

Next will be building the rear wheel, also using a Hadley hub and DT spokes. Should get a ride on the front today, looking forward to it.


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## Van Cuz (Jun 24, 2010)

Has anyone switched from Stans Flows to this rim and noticed a change in stiffness?

I have Hope Pro II's with DT Revolution spokes on Stan's Flows and noticed a lot of flex, so I have retired them to my commuter. I'm wondering that if I change out the flows for these carbon rims I will notice an improvement in stiffness? or do I need to go to a thicker spoke?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

If your flows were flexy with revo, I guess they aren't tensioned enough. My Flows on CX ray are very stiff. Thicker spokes do not necessarily mean stiffer. On the contrary. I have problems building stiff wheels with thick spokes


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## Van Cuz (Jun 24, 2010)

hssp said:


> If your flows were flexy with revo, I guess they aren't tensioned enough. My Flows on CX ray are very stiff. Thicker spokes do not necessarily mean stiffer. On the contrary. I have problems building stiff wheels with thick spokes


From what I have read, CX Rays would build to a stiffer wheel than Revo's.

My understanding was that a thicker spoke would stretch less under load (at the same initial tension), leading to a stiffer wheel.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

CX-Rays and Revos have about the same cross sectional area. They are equivalent in elasticity. A thicker spoke would be less elastic (ie. stretch less under the same load) but the CX-Ray is wide and flat while the revos are round, but the amount of metal in cross section is the similar.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

The carbon rims allow a much higher tension overall in the wheel as the rim itself give structural support.
Alloy rims do have a fair amount of give compared to the carbon ones, so if you tried to build them with the same high tension, the natural flex of the alloy rim would lead to snapping spokes as the flex is in concentrated areas.
The carbon rims spread the load much better across more spokes, leading to less high stress peaks on single spokes when really putting the rim in high lateral and vertical loads.

Bladed spokes do support stronger wheel builds. As the spokes are not just stressing directly in-line with the spoke, they have side loading aswell. Bladed spokes are much less prone to failure under repeated side loading when under high tension.
Cross sectional area is not the only factor in actual durability, as both Revo's and CX's could be tensioned up to the same high tension, but the Revo's would fail way before the CX's did under actual riding conditions.


Scar


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

scar4me said:


> ...Bladed spokes do support stronger wheel builds. As the spokes are not just stressing directly in-line with the spoke, they have side loading aswell. Bladed spokes are much less prone to failure under repeated side loading when under high tension.
> Cross sectional area is not the only factor in actual durability, as both Revo's and CX's could be tensioned up to the same high tension, but the Revo's would fail way before the CX's did under actual riding conditions...


Got any empirical data to back this up? A spoke is under tension, its cross-sectional shape is irrelevant. CX-rays claim to have a higher fatigue life than the equivalent non-bladed spoke. They do not claim to be stronger.


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

Now that the season is winding down does anyone have any video of themselves riding these rims in technical stuff or hitting jumps/drops with them? Or even just comments on how well they performed for you this season, along with what bike they are on and style riding you prefer? I would love to hear from those Mojo HD riders!


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

ttengineer said:


> Now that the season is winding down does anyone have any video of themselves riding these rims in technical stuff or hitting jumps/drops with them? Or even just comments on how well they performed for you this season, along with what bike they are on and style riding you prefer? I would love to hear from those Mojo HD riders!


Well I don't have a seasons use out of mine but I built up a front wheel last week and my rear wheel yesterday. Rims came in at 360 grams each, Hadley hubs, DT revolution spokes and alloy nipples. Wheelset weighed in at 1550 grams without rim strip or valve. I used one wrap of gorilla tape with a Stans valve and my Conti Trail Kings seated easily.

I've had a few rides on the front wheel, first ride on the rear wheel today. No complaints, the front seems like its stiffer than my DT 5.1/Hadley wheel I was using previously.

These are on a Mojo HD and I feel like it was a good investment. Think I ended up spending around $850 for everything. The new wheels dropped around 3/4 lbs from my wheels which doesn't suck.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I've been beating the snot out of mine. No full DH rock garden charging, as Carbon and rocks still freak me out, but I have pushed them as hard as any rim on any trailbike. Jumps and berm bashing like crazy, and I come in at 200lbs. These things are STIFF!

If I were running 1000g+ tires on a DH bike, and higher pressures, I would trust them.

They would probably be on my long-travel Enduro, IF they had a true bead-lip like my XT wheels do. I do fear of burping these if I ride REAL hard, with no bead lock. I head the Bontrager strips have this lip though might try that.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Tech note from Brian:


> The recommended spoke tension is 80kgf to 130kgf
> 
> 3 of charging tension are involved in wheel building. Riding comfortability and performance are supposed to be considered while choosing charging tension.
> 
> ...


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Custom red paint for me!!
Gonna replace some 620g Transitions with these... 400g reinforced version, UD under gloss red. These guys have been great to deal with. They say they have addressed the tight fitting/not fully seating tire problem... hope so.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

eurotrash666 said:


> Custom red paint for me!!
> Gonna replace some 620g Transitions with these... 400g reinforced version, UD under gloss red. These guys have been great to deal with. They say they have addressed the tight fitting/not fully seating tire problem... hope so.


Was the custom colour at any extra cost? Might get my next set in a union jack colour way!!


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

15 USD to paint and polish the pair. I bet they could do all kinds of paint, considering they do frames. Another Chinese company called Miracle did my frame with a design of my choice, but they charged per color, not on the complexity of the design. These guys are really striving for success.


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

eurotrash666 said:


> They say they have addressed the tight fitting/not fully seating tire problem... hope so.


I've recently built up four wheels with these rims and all have seated Continental trail kings (both UST and regular) without issue.


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

ScottW said:


> I've recently built up four wheels with these rims and all have seated Continental trail kings (both UST and regular) without issue.


What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.


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## nsxtc (Oct 9, 2012)

Subscribed


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

sraak said:


> What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.


From what I have seen on here, that combo seems to work VERY well. The bontrager rim strips seem to work well also.


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## ScottW (Jan 16, 2004)

sraak said:


> What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.


I just use one wrap of gorilla tape.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

sraak said:


> What type of rim strip are you using? I'm planning on trying out gorilla tape with my mountain king II's.





scar4me said:


> Howdy,
> Tubeless.........
> Now this was a right PITA, but they do work and work well.
> The biggest issue for me was the tyre not sealing initially due to the deep internal channel. I ended up making a rim strip out of a 20in tube cutting it into the right width. Once the rim strip was in the tyre was able to seal just enough to seat up on the bead correctly. (although I really really had to work at it with my track pump!!)
> ...


Did it the cheap way with £6 bolt in valves, and an old bmx tube.
Couldn't be bothered to spend £25-30 for a propper strip.

Scar


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

scar4me said:


> Did it the cheap way with £6 bolt in valves, and an old bmx tube.
> Couldn't be bothered to spend £25-30 for a propper strip.
> 
> Scar


Bontrager rim strips are £3.50 each

Gorilla tape is £4 a roll


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## rockinrod35 (Jan 4, 2006)

I have the 29" version of these rims and initially built them with Revo's-2.0-1.5-2.0, and found them to be too 'flexy' in rough tech, pretty scary actually. I rebuilt them with 2.0-1.7-2.0 spokes, same tension, and they are much better holding a line in the rough tech. I feel more confident. I may even go to 2.0-1.8-2.0.


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

rockinrod35 said:


> I have the 29" version of these rims and initially built them with Revo's-2.0-1.5-2.0, and found them to be too 'flexy' in rough tech, pretty scary actually. I rebuilt them with 2.0-1.7-2.0 spokes, same tension, and they are much better holding a line in the rough tech. I feel more confident. I may even go to 2.0-1.8-2.0.


Too flexy compared to what? Isn't the primary benefit of carbon rims the stiffness? I run Stan's Arch EX and am considering these FOR the stiffness. Would I be disappointed in this swap?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

kroe said:


> Too flexy compared to what? Isn't the primary benefit of carbon rims the stiffness? I run Stan's Arch EX and am considering these FOR the stiffness. Would I be disappointed in this swap?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


He was referring to the spokes, not the rim i believe.


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

ttengineer said:


> He was referring to the spokes, not the rim i believe.


Understood, but thought carbon rims were super stiff, and could get away with lighter or less spokes (seems to be how the commercial Carbon wheelsets are set up). I weigh around 210 and haven't seen a huge difference in stiffness from spokes (from tension yes, from spokes not so much, even my current Industry Nine aluminum spokes).


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

kroe said:


> Too flexy compared to what? Isn't the primary benefit of carbon rims the stiffness? I run Stan's Arch EX and am considering these FOR the stiffness. Would I be disappointed in this swap?
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


I went from Stans Arch rims and its like night and day, you won't be disappointed.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

kroe said:


> Understood, but thought carbon rims were super stiff, and could get away with lighter or less spokes (seems to be how the commercial Carbon wheelsets are set up).


Depends how light you go on the spokes, Revolutions are very light, so much so DT only backs them up for XC use ~(They go 2.0-1.5-2.0).

Comps/Supercomps have a much less drastic butting to them, so you can get away with fewer and higher tensions. But really you want 32 and live with the extra 100g, wheels with 28 or fewer spokes can be a complete pain to true.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Fix the Spade said:


> Comps/Supercomps have a much less drastic butting to them, so you can get away with fewer and higher tensions. But really you want 32 and live with the extra 100g, wheels with 28 or fewer spokes can be a complete pain to true.


This is great advice. In the planning stages it's easy to get obsessed. Doing a recent build i realized I was agonizing over every gram, in reality, when I'm actually RIDING my bike I care a whole lot more about functionality and durability.


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## rockinrod35 (Jan 4, 2006)

My old wheels were Stan's Arch (not the EX version)-DT-2.0-1.8-2.0 Comp spokes, Hadley hubs, 15mm front, 10mm thru rear. LB wheels are-wide AM rim, 2.0-1.7-2.0 wheelsmith spokes, DT Swiss 350 hubs, 15mm front, 10mm rear. So far, my old wheels are definitely better in the rough, i.e bombing down rough downhills. The LB carbon wheels are lighter, and they definitely allow the tires to hook up better, especially climbing.


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

I just order my matte stronger DU rims i should see them in a few weeks! im excited to see if they hold up!


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

rockinrod35 said:


> My old wheels were Stan's Arch (not the EX version)-DT-2.0-1.8-2.0 Comp spokes, Hadley hubs, 15mm front, 10mm thru rear. LB wheels are-wide AM rim, 2.0-1.7-2.0 wheelsmith spokes, DT Swiss 350 hubs, 15mm front, 10mm rear. So far, my old wheels are definitely better in the rough, i.e bombing down rough downhills. The LB carbon wheels are lighter, and they definitely allow the tires to hook up better, especially climbing.


I had the Arch rims just swapped everything over onto the carbon rims and the new rims make the wheels 100% better in all situations, so I would disagree with your findings. Just my opinion.


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## dabe (Apr 4, 2008)

*Well, it was fun while it lasted...*

After about 5 weeks of riding, I was riding my favorite local trail and I rolled off a tiny jump (about a foot drop). I didn't notice the rock in the landing area until I hit it.

The carbon rim didn't like handle the impact well.

So sad, I really liked it until this happened. I'll be rebuilding with an alloy rim (Nancy says this is not covered by warranty).


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## axl886 (Oct 15, 2012)

Just received from Nancy a day ago... 3k matte, hope it stands up to my usage.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Nice! I've been enjoying mine for several months now. I've used them through the rocky jungle riding we have here in Hawaii and even three weeks of CO single track trails. They've been wonderful. Hope they work as great for you as they have for me.


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## Cincinnati Kid (Jan 24, 2008)

just ordered a set to lace over to my I9's...fingers crossed...


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

dabe said:


> After about 5 weeks of riding, I was riding my favorite local trail and I rolled off a tiny jump (about a foot drop). I didn't notice the rock in the landing area until I hit it.
> 
> The carbon rim didn't like handle the impact well.
> 
> So sad, I really liked it until this happened. I'll be rebuilding with an alloy rim (Nancy says this is not covered by warranty).


Curious, did you pinch flat? Running tubeless? I've upped my pressure to avoid any chance of rock to rim contact.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

dabe said:


> I didn't notice the rock in the landing area until I hit it.


Ouch, bad luck.

I doubt an alloy rim would have handled the 'one sharp object on landing' scenario much better, but then again it doesn't hurt nearly as much to bust a $40 rim as a $150 carbon.

Better luck with the replacement!


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

dabe said:


> After about 5 weeks of riding, I was riding my favorite local trail and I rolled off a tiny jump (about a foot drop). I didn't notice the rock in the landing area until I hit it.
> 
> The carbon rim didn't like handle the impact well.
> 
> So sad, I really liked it until this happened. I'll be rebuilding with an alloy rim (Nancy says this is not covered by warranty).


bummer dude. out of curiosity, what did that rim weigh? curious if it was on the lighter or heavier/more reinforced end of the spectrum that they offer. thx.


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## dabe (Apr 4, 2008)

*my broken rim*



hardboiled said:


> bummer dude. out of curiosity, what did that rim weigh? curious if it was on the lighter or heavier/more reinforced end of the spectrum that they offer. thx.


The rim weighed 384g.

I was running tubeless. The impact broke the rim which caused the tire to leak down very quickly.

I was running tubeless using gorilla tape with Continental Mountain King tires (version 1). I never had any trouble burping or getting the tires to seat.

I was running 32 psi at the time of the failure.

I agree that I might have damaged an alloy rim in same circumstances. We will never know for sure, since I promptly removed the rock.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

dabe said:


> The rim weighed 384g.
> 
> I was running tubeless. The impact broke the rim which caused the tire to leak down very quickly.
> 
> ...


OK, for the sake of our testing, please rebuild the wheel with a similar weight alloy rim. Place rock back in spot. Hit it the same (or as close to) as possible and report back :thumbsup:

Seriously, bummer on the rim - and good job on the trail maintenance so the next person along doesnt suffer the same fate.


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## axl886 (Oct 15, 2012)

Just laced them up with Hope Pro 2 Evos:


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Are you guys building these wheels with nipple washers?
I think someone suggested it may help with spoke nipple alignment, but my worry would be 
the amount of carbon that the nipple could wear away.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

geo025 said:


> Are you guys building these wheels with nipple washers?
> I think someone suggested it may help with spoke nipple alignment, but my worry would be
> the amount of carbon that the nipple could wear away.


No, didn't find it necessary.


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## morganfletcher (Jul 22, 2005)

litany said:


> Straight gauge spokes aren't stronger than butted spokes, they are weaker. Its a common misconception that the heavier spoke is somehow stronger. Spokes are very strong nevertheless. it's just harder to build with double butted spokes because they tend to "wind up" easier which just means when you are turning the nipple it's not turning on the spoke, you're turning the spoke which doesn't actually increase tension. There are techniques to deal with this it just makes building the wheel harder.


DT-Swiss Aerolites, or a similar bladed spoke, and a good bladed-spoke holder are a great way to build a strong wheel to high tension without spoke wind-up. I built a set of Edge Composites (now ENVE) wheels like this. Helped me get the very high recommended spoke tension, safely and easily.

Morgan


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

morganfletcher said:


> DT-Swiss Aerolites, or a similar bladed spoke, and a good bladed-spoke holder are a great way to build a strong wheel to high tension without spoke wind-up. I built a set of Edge Composites (now ENVE) wheels like this. Helped me get the very high recommended spoke tension, safely and easily.
> 
> Morgan


I agree 100% with everything you said but for me at least, it is tough to stray from the tried and true (and reasonably priced) double butted spoke.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

I've gone over this thread & the 29er & didn't see/read failures of the burlier build rims, Is that the case so far?


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

geo025 said:


> I've gone over this thread & the 29er & didn't see/read failures of the burlier build rims, Is that the case so far?


I had a "beefed up" 402 gram 650b rim break running normal to more than usual tire pressure and they are sending me a new one. The front is going fine so far. Pics in the 650b/27.5 forum.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

geo025 said:


> I've gone over this thread & the 29er & didn't see/read failures of the burlier build rims, Is that the case so far?


There is one undeniable fact that you will find true 100% of the time: In any review or thread about mountain bike wheels, both extremes will be represented- those that hammer a wheelset and love it, and those that have "I was just riding along..." stories of catastrophic failure.

We have varying riding styles and talents, different body weights and wheelbuilding skills. There are the silent majorities and the vocal minorities. Some demand the impossible, and are never satisfied. Some understand limitations and have realistic expectations.

Use your judgement. I bought a set of these rims for the fun of an experiment. There are tried and true workhorse wheelsets out there if you can't afford to gamble. I would still buy Deemax wheels even if some dude on a forum posted a pic saying he folded two hoops and blew the freehub hopping a curb. I'd still avoid a $100 wheelset if some other dude claims three seasons of dirt jumping without ever having to adjust tension or bearing preload. There is enough info in this whopper of a thread to base a decision on so long as you are honest with yourself about how well you can build and ride these wheels, and accept that sometimes mountain bike parts break when pushed near the limit.


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## OldManBike (Apr 16, 2011)

Well said.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

eurotrash666 said:


> There is one undeniable fact that you will find true 100% of the time: In any review or thread about mountain bike wheels, both extremes will be represented- those that hammer a wheelset and love it, and those that have "I was just riding along..." stories of catastrophic failure.
> 
> We have varying riding styles and talents, different body weights and wheelbuilding skills. There are the silent majorities and the vocal minorities. Some demand the impossible, and are never satisfied. Some understand limitations and have realistic expectations.
> 
> Use your judgement. I bought a set of these rims for the fun of an experiment. There are tried and true workhorse wheelsets out there if you can't afford to gamble. I would still buy Deemax wheels even if some dude on a forum posted a pic saying he folded two hoops and blew the freehub hopping a curb. I'd still avoid a $100 wheelset if some other dude claims three seasons of dirt jumping without ever having to adjust tension or bearing preload. There is enough info in this whopper of a thread to base a decision on so long as you are honest with yourself about how well you can build and ride these wheels, and accept that sometimes mountain bike parts break when pushed near the limit.


Thanks for the blog....

I decided it was worth the risk so placed an order for the heavier built rims last week, they should be popping out of the mold any time now.
I'll lace up the front front wheel, see how it rides then venture on to the rear when I'm happy with it.

I remember not that many years back I had a carbon bar that folded on me in a race, not a great experience I want to repeat. Now I'm confidently using Carbon bars again & they are stronger than any alloy bars I've owned( but still expensive).

Carbon rims I expect will get better & hopefully cheaper down the track & we will wonder how we ever rode on alloy rims, I just need to man up now & not become the crash test dummy again...


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

Looking for advice on tubeless setup on the rims... Trying to mount 2.35 nevegals (non-ust) and cant get them to inflate at all, even with 3 layers of stans tape. The tire bead is very loose in the groove. Has anyone managed to get these to work tubeless? 

Only options seem to be to inflate at gas station with sealant inside - would this work?? The lbs said a bontrager strip wouldn't work as they are designed only for bonty rims, but others here seem to have had success.


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## bajaguy (Jul 13, 2009)

highaltitude said:


> Looking for advice on tubeless setup on the rims... Trying to mount 2.35 nevegals (non-ust) and cant get them to inflate at all, even with 3 layers of stans tape. The tire bead is very loose in the groove. Has anyone managed to get these to work tubeless?
> 
> Only options seem to be to inflate at gas station with sealant inside - would this work?? The lbs said a bontrager strip wouldn't work as they are designed only for bonty rims, but others here seem to have had success.


Having three layers of tape won't make it any easier to mount vs. one layer of tape. I ran a non UST Nevegal tubeless before on a Mavic wheel and remember it was pain to get the bead to seal. If you're using a floor pump forget about mounting it. You'll need a compressor so you can blast it with high pressure and its ok to have sealant in the tire. You really have to massage the bead all the way around to make sure you can make it seal. I remember it took me some time to get it to hook up.

Bonty strips work great on these wheels and I have no issue running them. Not sure how they would work with Kenda tires but no issues mounting tires or holding air with Specialzed or Maxxis tires I've ran.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

highaltitude said:


> Looking for advice on tubeless setup on the rims... Trying to mount 2.35 nevegals (non-ust) and cant get them to inflate at all, even with 3 layers of stans tape. The tire bead is very loose in the groove. Has anyone managed to get these to work tubeless?
> 
> Only options seem to be to inflate at gas station with sealant inside - would this work?? The lbs said a bontrager strip wouldn't work as they are designed only for bonty rims, but others here seem to have had success.


You must use a rim strip. Bontrager or Stans or ghetto... Something.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

I've had no problems with the Nevegal on L-B rim. Seated and sealed right up with an air compressor. Take the internals out of the valve and blast the air through the valve stem to get the tire to seat. 3 layers of tape is unnecessary and is taking up room to get the bead to seat. One layer of Stan's or Gorilla tape with overlap at the valve hole should work fine.

Good Luck:thumbsup:


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## Cincinnati Kid (Jan 24, 2008)

Got my rims in the promised 4 working days. Laced them over last night and am patiently awaiting arrival of tensiometer before mounting tires and whatnot. 

They build up very nicely...considering their rigidity, that should not be news...

They are laced over to an I9 build with Stans rims. It was weird that the spoke holes are not staggered. Weight was almost a wash...maybe 50g lighter with the new set...much wider though. the Stans rims were a 355 and Arch (non-EX). 

I think I'll order and extra to keep in the gear locker for inevitable rock hit of operator error type wheel failure.


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

Thanks for the tips. I'll try the rim strip as I've now run out of tape!


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

FYI, for the archives...

I just mounted a 2.35 maxxis dhf, wire bead, single ply, 42a "super tacky" tubeless with one layer of gorilla tape and Stan's sealant. Took about three puffs from the compressor for the bead to seat and had almost no leakage. Still holding firm 2 days later. It has been my best tubeless attempt to date and that includes an actual UST rim & tire. Good times.


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

highaltitude said:


> Thanks for the tips. I'll try the rim strip as I've now run out of tape!


Target, Wal-Mart, Lowes and Home Depot sell Gorilla Tape "To Go" which is a roll that is already cut to 25mm for less than $3.:thumbsup:


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## highaltitude (Aug 21, 2008)

MTB Pilot said:


> Target, Wal-Mart, Lowes and Home Depot sell Gorilla Tape "To Go" which is a roll that is already cut to 25mm for less than $3.:thumbsup:


I'm living about 10,000 miles away from any of those stores! But I should able to get the bonty strips on Saturday from my lbs. thanks.


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

After several rear hub shipping mishaps I finally got my set built up, 1450g!

Wider Rims UD Matte (~360g)
DT revolution spokes (~110 kgf tension)
DT 240S Rear Hub (10mm)
Hope Pro Front (20mm)

I also managed to mount them up tubeless without any issue. This is my first tubeless (and my first carbon) wheelset so I was pretty jazzed when it all worked right away.

This is what I did:
1" (25.4mm) Gorilla tape on the rim (overlapping the valve hole by 2" on either side)
Mounted Tires (Mountain King II 2.4 Protection)
2 Scoops of Stan's per wheel
Inflate!

I had recently purchased a high volume floor pump from Lezyne that supposedly can mount tubeless tires. Not the case here and I don't have a compressor so I was kind of annoyed that it didn't work. I decided to try a CO2 cartridge (16g) and it worked right away on both tires, it took one cartridge per tire and they were about 25 psi after the cartridge had emptied.

I did not put any soap on the bead and the beads still seated right away. The tires were mounted on another wheelset for the last few weeks though which supposedly helps.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

sraak said:


> I had recently purchased a high volume floor pump from Lezyne that supposedly can mount tubeless tires. Not the case here and I don't have a compressor so I was kind of annoyed that it didn't work. .


Heh,heh... I fell for that sales pitch too. I wanted a pump that moved the most air for setting up tubeless and naturally the salesperson said the Lezyne was the best (coincidentally the most expensive!) but it didn't work worth crap. I hate the heads on those as well.

I bought a Topeak Joe Blow Pro and it has worked about 80% of the time. That new Topeak JB Ace looks even better, though!


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

Ha ha. yep. What's even more funny is that I bought the CNC version... Wait, maybe that isn't funny....

The head is kind of annoying, I found out pretty quickly that if you use the screw on "flip chuck" adapater they have it removes the core when you're taking it off... ughh.. Oh well, I'm very happy to just use a CO2 cartridge to get teh job done.


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## 'size (Oct 10, 2005)

so it looks like an even wider/DH version will be available at some point.
info from ridemonkey :

"Hello Noah,

Thanks for your mail. Wish you will like our rims.
One of our customer is going to design the much wider rim, it will be 35mm wide, and 27mm for the inner width. But it will take quite a long time to test.
You can order from him when the rim is ready to sell. We will manufacture the rims for him.

Thanks,
Nancy"


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## Andrewandy (Nov 20, 2012)

What is the length of spokes to hubs 240s ,110 20mm front and 150mm rear with 26 extra wide rims stronger 450g ?


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Andrewandy said:


> What is the length of spokes to hubs 240s ,110 20mm front and 150mm rear with 26 extra wide rims stronger 450g ?


You should find what you're after here.

#1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER


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## nybike1971 (Oct 6, 2005)

My experience with the Light Bicycle carbon rims has been very disappointing. I built a set of their UST compatible 26in wide rims in August 2012 and the rear rim cracked while I was preriding the Moab Enduro race course down Porcupine Rim at the end of September. I had a Conti Mountain King II 2.4 tire tubeless at 28psi mounted on the rim when it cracked and I weigh 165lbs. For reference, I had ACL reconstruction surgery in May so am not taking any chances this year and riding very conservatively.

I had to scramble and buy a rear wheel so I could ride in the race and finish my Moab trip.



















They replaced the rim under warranty and they sent me what they called a reinforced rim (around 400g). I rebuilt the wheel (CK hub and DT Comp spokes at 110kgf driveside tension) with the new rim and after only 4-5 rides it cracked again. This time I was running a Conti Mountain King 2.4 tire (850g) with a much beefier sidewall than the first generation MK tire, also tubeless at 28psi. I cracked the rim rolling down Bailey's at Blue Mountain (Peekskill, NY) - definitely just an XC trail with some rocks.




























They replaced this rim under warranty again and sent a new reinforced rim. They still charge $40 for shipping for the replacement rims, so not free, and I need to rebuild the wheel, again. Definitely not worth the uncertainty and the hassle for me. I am going back to the Stan's Flow that I had on those hubs for 4 seasons.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Sucks to see - out of curiosity what did your stans flows look like after 4 seasons of riding (dents n dings?) Some people are just harder on wheels then others - and for those that do dent/ding alloy rims I dont think carbon is a great option.

Plus side is their customer service appears ok - replacing both rims. Ya - you had to pay shipping, but that is not uncommon.


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## nybike1971 (Oct 6, 2005)

006_007 said:


> Sucks to see - out of curiosity what did your stans flows look like after 4 seasons of riding (dents n dings?) Some people are just harder on wheels then others - and for those that do dent/ding alloy rims I dont think carbon is a great option.
> 
> Plus side is their customer service appears ok - replacing both rims. Ya - you had to pay shipping, but that is not uncommon.


Front Flow rim is perfect (that's the one I am going to use to rebuild the rear wheel) and the rear one had a couple of small dents over the years that I straightened out with channel locks and still holds air for a tubeless setup without any problems. The only reason I bought the carbon rims was to try and lose some rotating weight without compromising stiffness and width.

In both cases when I cracked the rims the tires did not flat and Stan's sealed the crack. I don't consider myself particularly hard on gear. If you look at this video I shot a few years ago at Blue Mountain you will see exactly the spot on the trail where I cracked my rim (somewhere between 0:26 and 0:31):






Fall ride at Blue Mountain from Luca Marinelli on Vimeo.

Ian, Pete, and Luca ride at Blue Mountain Reservation in Peekskill, NY on November 29, 2008.

As I said, it's an XC trail. Not really where I would expect a 30mm wide rim to fail.


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## Andrewandy (Nov 20, 2012)

What is de ERD for the 26 wide rims extra stronger 450g ?


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## axl886 (Oct 15, 2012)

Noob question:

If the trails I ride are generally free of thorns, can I just choose to get a pair of Stan's universal valve stems, a set of UST tyres (say Small Block 8s), pump it up and go ride, without adding sealant?

Currently running a tubed setup and I believe yellow tape was already installed by my LBS. Thanks!


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

nybike1971
maybe its time to use more PSI on the rear tire....
I guess you would break any carbon rim with 28 PSI on the rear.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Q: How do I lose 1.5 lbs off my bike?
A: Replace the Transition 32s with carbon!

Painted by Light-Bicycle to match. Extra fiber added to 385g. Per Brian, they make the extra weight with more wraps of fiber, not just resin. Can't wait to build!


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

nice!!!


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## wyatt79m (Mar 3, 2007)

Wow...Looks great


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## morganfletcher (Jul 22, 2005)

saruti said:


> nybike1971
> maybe its time to use more PSI on the rear tire....
> I guess you would break any carbon rim with 28 PSI on the rear.


I disagree, 28psi in a 2.4" tire is not low pressure, especially for a 165lb rider.

I've got ~400 miles of mtn bike racing on a set of Edge Composites (now ENVE) XC 29er rims. I've only ever run them tubeless, with xc-level tires, and I think the max I've ever had in them was 32psi. I'm just over 200lbs. I usually raced them at 28/29psi. I'm a lot heavier than nybike1971, and these tires were in the 2.0" - 2.2" range. I don't know anyone running tubeless that regularly puts more than 32psi in their tires, and no one running 2.4" tires who inflates them to more than 30psi. These light-bicycle rims should be able to survive in conditions, as well as or better than aluminum rims.

I have a set of the 29er wide rims on the way, built with extra material. I do have some trepidation about their durability, but I'm treating this like an experiment. I will build them up and ride them hard on my fun bikes, and hopefully they hold up. I'd get more ENVE rims if I could afford them. Right now I have Stans Flow rims on three 29ers. Ideally I'd race them in the Downieville Classic next summer, but... we will see.

There's a human tendency to defend an idea in which we've invested resources, or in which we place a lot of hope. Right? Keep an open mind about these rims. The price does seem too good to be true. We'll all find out. Hopefully light-bicycle.com, and carbon manufacturers like them are using our real-world experiences and broken rims to improve their product.

Morgan


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## morganfletcher (Jul 22, 2005)

axl886 said:


> Noob question:
> 
> If the trails I ride are generally free of thorns, can I just choose to get a pair of Stan's universal valve stems, a set of UST tyres (say Small Block 8s), pump it up and go ride, without adding sealant?
> 
> Currently running a tubed setup and I believe yellow tape was already installed by my LBS. Thanks!


I don't think so, but try it and report back. Dry tubeless might work on a UST system - I believe that was the design goal - but in a Stans-style system, sealant helps to seal the system. The puncture repair aspect is another benefit. I don't have many tire-puncturing thorns where I live, but I have pinch-flatted and punctured tires, running tubeless, and sealant has gotten me home without putting a tube in. (Sometimes, I have to put a tube in.)

Never a preposition end your sentence with,

Morgan


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## MTB Pilot (Oct 23, 2010)

saruti said:


> nybike1971
> maybe its time to use more PSI on the rear tire....
> I guess you would break any carbon rim with 28 PSI on the rear.


Well your guess would be wrong then

Been running Easton Havens carbon version at 28 PSI for 6 months of hard riding in the AZ rocky terrain and no failures and I'm 190 lbs without gear.:thumbsup: My buddy has them in 26" and 29" with the same results.


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

I will agree. I am 210lbs riding weight I ride extremely aggressive and I never inflate more then 30 psi even during park riding. This is on a Hans dumpf 2.3 Stan's flow. I just had my carbon wheels built looking forward to my first ride.


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

Here are a picture of my wider (stronger) DU with king hubs CX-Ray spokes 260mm all the way around, DT Swiss gold alloy nipples. They came in at 1627gram 7 grams over the DT Swiss calculator! Pretty good!


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## nybike1971 (Oct 6, 2005)

saruti said:


> nybike1971
> maybe its time to use more PSI on the rear tire....
> I guess you would break any carbon rim with 28 PSI on the rear.


Morgan said it very well. I know it is not true that any carbon rim would crack under my body at 28psi. A friend of mine has been riding a set of Reynolds rims for over a season on a hardtail in rocky terrain and they have held up great.

The whole point of running tubeless is to improve the ride quality. If I can't run 28psi in a 850g 2.4 tire, the rim is useless for me. I am not talking about paper thin 450g tires here.

Just like Morgan, I treated this as an experiment. I was hoping it would work out but for me it didn't and it's time to move on. Maybe I'll splurge on a set of Enve because I really liked to stiffness and feel of carbon.

saruti, just out of curiosity, do you have any affiliation with light-bicycle?


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## Salespunk (Sep 15, 2005)

You are absolutely correct. I run 23 PSI in my rear tire on my Eastons and have for over a year without issues. This is doing 5-10 drops and riding a lot of fast rocky chunk.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

nybike1971
I dont have any relationship with light-bicycle.com. I'm a costumer like all of us.
I just think that with carbon rims, we shuld use more tire pressure.
for me it's easy, becouse I like my tires pressure high. even when I used aluminium rims.
I dont like the feel of the tires foldes when I take a turn....
and I like the feel of my bike suspension working under me, and not the tires.
I hope you understand what I mean


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

I'm 200lbs, and sure I can put my tires at 25f/28r PSI and make my rims survive, riding at a moderate pace. If I ride with any less than 32f/35r my 800g tires(any kind) squirm and are unpredictable, at the pace I want to ride. At higher pressures like this, I also have a tendency to make rims last pretty long. I can remember very well the last time I dented a rim. My Light Bicycle rims have been doing GREAT, even blasting hard.

If you regularly put dents in your aluminum rims, in my opinion, carbon rims are going to be a risky deal for you, unless you increase your pressures a bit.

I guess for the record, here is my riding level. This is my other bike, but I don't ride my bike with the LB carbon wheels any less aggressive. Fast forward about 2min in for better terrain.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

thure 
you know how to write and explain, better than me


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## 5power (Jul 26, 2010)

That was fun to watch except for the metal on metal part, awesome riding. I ride pretty similar trails I'm 140lbs hopefully these carbon wheels will hold up.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Looks like a pretty good fun factor for such a well-groomed trail. I don't think rocks will be an issue for you... looks like a fun ride, though. Troll alert: your buddy has a nasty skidding habit that would be remedied with a little compress-and-lean into those wide, nicely-bermed corners y'all have.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Thanks guys. Lets me just say again, that I have been charging with these rims even on rocky terrain(even though there is little rock in that above vid), and as long as my pressures are high, I have NO worries. I smashed into a couple rock sections yesterday on the trail, which reminds me I should give the rims a go go-over today, as I know my front pressure was down in the 29psi range. I think the buttery 160mm fork did it's job though.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

eurotrash666 said:


> Troll alert: your buddy has a nasty skidding habit that would be remedied with a little compress-and-lean into those wide, nicely-bermed corners y'all have.


HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

thuren said:


> HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.


I was going to say if you haven't ridden BTI it's hard to tell how short those sections between switchbacks are. If you have enough speed to air the jumps you're going to skid a little.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

thuren said:


> HAHA! I'll just say, once you get to a certain speed, if you DON'T skid, you are not making the turn. Race-pace mandates skidding sometimes.


 Whenever I make a troll post, god kills a kitten. Lean, rail, rejoice. With finesse comes speed and control!

Chiming in on pressure, if only to boost the number of voices- I am heavy, and I ride aggressively. I could go on about breaking bones and parts and all that, since I shred, blah blah, but one thing that matters for sure is tire pressure. Up front (for me) maybe it can dip to a pound or two, but 30 psi is the absolute minimum in back. Varies with carcass size and terrain and all the other variables, but c'mon, you can't expect to not beat a rim with 24 psi no matter what you weigh.

If you know what pressure you will pinch flat at, and you should, that would be the same condition that your rim no longer has a cushion between it and the rock you landed on. Eliminating tubes eliminates pinch flats (well, the tube kind) but it does not change how your rim gets hammered. The line between compliant traction and slog & squirm is so narrow, why try to balance it? Add 5 psi and be done with it. My street/dj bike that these carbon rims are for always has 35 psi in the tires (with tubes), and I expect them to last.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

eurotrash666 said:


> Whenever I make a troll post, god kills a kitten. Lean, rail, rejoice. With finesse comes speed and control!
> 
> Chiming in on pressure, if only to boost the number of voices- I am heavy, and I ride aggressively. I could go on about breaking bones and parts and all that, since I shred, blah blah, but one thing that matters for sure is tire pressure. Up front (for me) maybe it can dip to a pound or two, but 30 psi is the absolute minimum in back. Varies with carcass size and terrain and all the other variables, but c'mon, you can't expect to not beat a rim with 24 psi no matter what you weigh.
> 
> If you know what pressure you will pinch flat at, and you should, that would be the same condition that your rim no longer has a cushion between it and the rock you landed on. Eliminating tubes eliminates pinch flats (well, the tube kind) but it does not change how your rim gets hammered. The line between compliant traction and slog & squirm is so narrow, why try to balance it? Add 5 psi and be done with it. My street/dj bike that these carbon rims are for always has 35 psi in the tires (with tubes), and I expect them to last.


I agree 100%!


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I am about to have a set of these laced up to some Hope Pro 2 Evo's for my Stumpy FSR evo (can never have to many products named evo)

Can anyone confirm the spoke length needed? I'm having trouble finding the right specs to punch into DT's calculator for hub info, and I've searched this thread but found some varying results. 260? 262? 263? - confused, and just want to have my LBS order the right thing. Thanks!


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## lRaphl (May 26, 2007)

You better measure it yourself, this way you'll have exactly the right stuff.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Don't forget to consider the effect from the length of your neeples!


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

I got my spoke lengths wrong, and had them too long by 2mm.
But it was a relatively easy fix.

Just got a 14g spoke roller, as it was cheaper than buying a new full set of spokes.

Scar
P.S. Mine are still riding perfectly! 
1500g all in with American classic hubs, running tubeless.


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## mrgto (Sep 28, 2008)

bad andy said:


> I am about to have a set of these laced up to some Hope Pro 2 Evo's for my Stumpy FSR evo (can never have to many products named evo)
> 
> Can anyone confirm the spoke length needed? I'm having trouble finding the right specs to punch into DT's calculator for hub info, and I've searched this thread but found some varying results. 260? 262? 263? - confused, and just want to have my LBS order the right thing. Thanks!


I am coming up with 258 and 259. Let me know what you end up finding out. My ERD was correct from their web page so you results may vary depending on if you ERD is the same as mine


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

With my Chris king hubs I used 260 front and rear. The ERD was dead on. I used the dt calculator to find the correct spokes.


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## Scotty Slc (Aug 4, 2011)

Just ordered a set of light-bike's AM hoops for my bike... My plan is to relace my current Mavic Crossmax st's with these hoops. Anyone see any issues with this logic??:thumbsup:


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Scotty Slc said:


> Just ordered a set of light-bike's AM hoops for my bike... My plan is to relace my current Mavic Crossmax st's with these hoops. Anyone see any issues with this logic??:thumbsup:


Using the Crossmax ST hub? What will you use for spokes? The ball-end zircal spokes with the double-threaded UST nips will only retrofit with the XM819 rim, as far as I know. What's your plan?


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## Scotty Slc (Aug 4, 2011)

eurotrash666 said:


> Using the Crossmax ST hub? What will you use for spokes? The ball-end zircal spokes with the double-threaded UST nips will only retrofit with the XM819 rim, as far as I know. What's your plan?


I was planning on running the ST hub... I was planning on trying to make it work at first... I wanted to see if anyone is running a similar setup, so I can steal some idea's...


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

mrgto said:


> I am coming up with 258 and 259. Let me know what you end up finding out. My ERD was correct from their web page so you results may vary depending on if you ERD is the same as mine


I did manage to find the Hope hub dimensions and also came up with 258/259 for the rear. 258/260 for the front. pic attached:


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

bad andy said:


> I did manage to find the Hope hub dimensions and also came up with 258/259 for the rear. 258/260 for the front. pic attached:


I went with 258/260 front and rear, and it worked great. Next round, I will be using 260's for all, as if anything they were about 1-2mm too short.


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

thuren said:


> I went with 258/260 front and rear, and it worked great. Next round, I will be using 260's for all, as if anything they were about 1-2mm too short.


Yep, I used 260 both sides on my front Hope Evo. I could see the spoke end just short of flush with the top of the nipple, disc side.


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

Hey Geo,
What did you use rim strip or just tape?


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

Darkstar187 said:


> Hey Geo,
> What did you use rim strip or just tape?


Just Gorilla tape , I'm running with tubes at present, I may get back into tubeless after our holiday break.


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## Darkstar187 (Sep 6, 2010)

Ok cool, that's what I'm running tubeless it was kind of pain to mount my Hans dampf I lots of soapy water and a compressor to get them mounted up.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Wow - OK, so I've spent the better part of this entire week reading these 34 pages for these carbon rims (on a personal note, reading through threads would be 100x easier if people got rid of their stupid massive signatures). I even emailed Nancy myself inquiring about certain items. It seems like some customers are more than happy with the wheels, while others have had theirs break, and others have been completely cold-shouldered by customer service warranty/return issues. What's the feeling on these wheels? They seem a bit hit-and-miss, and I read numerous posts where people have ordered theirs custom done with special weighting and thickness and "burlier" buildup. The spec sheet Nancy sent me is a 30mm wide rim with a 25.8mm inner channel, 22mm height, and tubeless tire compatible. 

Is this the latest onthese wheels? For those who have been running these since May or June, how have they been holding up?


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Wheels are awesome!

I see it as very simple... Carbon does not bend, it breaks. Think of it like fiberglass.

If you regularly dent your aluminum rims, you should stick with aluminum, or increase your tire pressures and go with carbon.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Wow - OK, so I've spent the better part of this entire week reading these 34 pages for these carbon rims (on a personal note, reading through threads would be 100x easier if people got rid of their stupid massive signatures). I even emailed Nancy myself inquiring about certain items. It seems like some customers are more than happy with the wheels, while others have had theirs break, and others have been completely cold-shouldered by customer service warranty/return issues. What's the feeling on these wheels? They seem a bit hit-and-miss, and I read numerous posts where people have ordered theirs custom done with special weighting and thickness and "burlier" buildup. The spec sheet Nancy sent me is a 30mm wide rim with a 25.8mm inner channel, 22mm height, and tubeless tire compatible.
> 
> Is this the latest onthese wheels? For those who have been running these since May or June, how have they been holding up?


Been rolling on them since May. They've been in plenty of rocky areas and are holding up well. I mounted them tubeless with the Bontrager rim strip. Can't complain. My buddy blew one up by overinflating it way above the recommended max. I am very satisfied with my purchase.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

thuren said:


> Wheels are awesome!
> 
> I see it as very simple... Carbon does not bend, it breaks. Think of it like fiberglass.
> 
> If you regularly dent your aluminum rims, you should stick with aluminum, or increase your tire pressures and go with carbon.


I'm running Easton Havocs with their hubs/spokes and Schwalbe 2.4 UST Fat Alberts. If I went with carbon rims and CK hubs, it seems like the wight savings for me would be negligible, maybe a hundred grams. I guess I could always swap out hubs later on though for further reductions. I think I'm gonna put in an order for the UD weave since it's the strongest. Good discussion guys - I really like the option of buying straight from the mftr.

p.s. very jealous you're in Bend . My aunt/uncle moved there 4 years ago, and I have been desperately trying to find work there so I can move. Love that Deschutes River trail.


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## nybike1971 (Oct 6, 2005)

I have cracked two of these rims (rear wheel) on small hits through rock gardens while the front wheel has been going strong. You can see the pictures of the cracked rims and more details of my experience further up in this thread. 

My wheels have been ridden all over the Northeastern US, two weeks in Oregon, one week in Utah, and week in Phoenix and Sedona in the past six months. 

Oregon did not pose any issues on these rims as most of the riding there is quite smooth and primarily on dirt. It took one day of riding in Moab, preriding the Whole Enchilada enduro race course, to crack the first stock rim. One month later I cracked a reinforced rim riding an XC rocky trail in NY state. 

I gave up on these carbon rim in the rear and went back to Flow rims. In Sedona a few weeks ago, I was following a fast buddy on a fast descent through slickrock shelves and a steep roller became unexpectedly a 4ft drop to flat into kind of a hole for the rear wheel. I cringed but fortunately the Flow rim which just shrugged it off. Not even a small dent. And I was running 28psi on a Schwalbe HD tire setup tubeless. I weigh 165lbs, for the record.

For my terrain and riding style, these rims are just too fragile. The stiffness was very nice but the hassle of rebuilding a wheel every couple of months is not worth it to me.


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

what is the difference in the weave patterns 12k, 3k, UD? any changes in strength? price on these is fantastic!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

DOCRIGID said:


> what is the difference in the weave patterns 12k, 3k, UD? any changes in strength? price on these is fantastic!


Definitely a change in strength. Click on the question mark on Light Bicycle's website next to the weave pattern. It explains it.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Here you go:

The 3k 12K UD carbon fiber weave for rim and frame - light-bicycle


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## DOCRIGID (Sep 16, 2009)

thanks!


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## gvs_nz (Dec 13, 2009)

Shouldn't be any difference in strength as they should all be UD but with a differing cosmetic cover ply of your choice, UD, 3k or 12K.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

gvs_nz said:


> Shouldn't be any difference in strength as they should all be UD but with a differing cosmetic cover ply of your choice, UD, 3k or 12K.


Technically I guess this is correct. The wheel in its production phase is a UD construction. Question though: if I choose the UD matte/glossy, does the wheel come with a UD cover ply like you suggest, or does it come "raw" with just the UD build and no cover ply of an extra UD layer? In essence, if you get the 3k or 12k matte cover, you have a little bit of extra strength added to the wheel exterior, no?


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> Definitely a change in strength. Click on the question mark on Light Bicycle's website next to the weave pattern. It explains it.


Pretty sure the rims are mostly UD carbon, with the very most outer layer 3k or 12k if you specify. Honestly, I would want the external surfaces wrapped in 3k, and maybe a middle layer too from 3k, for delamination resistance. The 3k would cross the grain to prevent splitting. Kinda like splitting a piece of wood. If the grain changed direction, you would not get a long split. Hard to put what I mean in words.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

thuren said:


> Pretty sure the rims are mostly UD carbon, with the very most outer layer 3k or 12k if you specify. Honestly, I would want the external surfaces wrapped in 3k, and maybe a middle layer too from 3k, for delamination resistance. The 3k would cross the grain to prevent splitting. Kinda like splitting a piece of wood. If the grain changed direction, you would not get a long split. Hard to put what I mean in words.


Did you have yours built this way? I have been in communication with Nancy for the past week, and just about to send an order. I did read somewhere that the 3k helps on the areas for the spoke/valve spots against possible delamination. Your suggestions make a lot of sense. I'll have to see if Nancy can accommodate something like this.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Did you have yours built this way? I have been in communication with Nancy for the past week, and just about to send an order. I did read somewhere that the 3k helps on the areas for the spoke/valve spots against possible delamination. Your suggestions make a lot of sense. I'll have to see if Nancy can accommodate something like this.


Here's the response I got from Nancy on this question: 
"We have one 3k layer inside the spoke holes, you can see it through the spoke holes.
And if you order 3k rims, there will be another 3k layer on the top of rim. So, total is two layers of 3k carbon. Is it ok for you? If you like to order, we can make invoice for you.
Thanks,
Nancy"

So it sounds like there actually is already two layers of 3k mixed in with the overall UD production.


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## clydecrash (Apr 1, 2005)

*Thanks for the info*

I have no input, just wanted to let all the posters know that I appreciate your discussion of these rims. Discussions were thorough and generally stayed on the topic (which, as you know, doesn't always happen). I am considering building an "AM" wheelset with carbon rims, but decided that the wider LB rims were not appropriate for what I want (riding over rocks and 3-foot drops). I will visit the thread occasionally to see what has developed.

I'd rep all of you, but there are too many of you! So, virtual rep, and thanks again.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

clydecrash said:


> I have no input, just wanted to let all the posters know that I appreciate your discussion of these rims. Discussions were thorough and generally stayed on the topic (which, as you know, doesn't always happen). I am considering building an "AM" wheelset with carbon rims, but decided that the wider LB rims were not appropriate for what I want (riding over rocks and 3-foot drops). I will visit the thread occasionally to see what has developed.
> 
> I'd rep all of you, but there are too many of you! So, virtual rep, and thanks again.


I agree. The discussion here, with the exception of a jillion posts about shipment tracking, was very intuitive and informational. How come you say the wider 30mm rims aren't appropriate for an AM build? They have 24mm and 30mm sets. Is it just because of the fragility of carbon against rocks/drops? Those 30mm wheels should hold up crazy nice if you build them with good components.


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## clydecrash (Apr 1, 2005)

chrisingrassia said:


> I agree. The discussion here, with the exception of a jillion posts about shipment tracking, was very intuitive and informational. How come you say the wider 30mm rims aren't appropriate for an AM build? They have 24mm and 30mm sets. Is it just because of the fragility of carbon against rocks/drops? Those 30mm wheels should hold up crazy nice if you build them with good components.


Yeah, it is mostly about the rocks. A lot of my trails are mostly rocks, and this set will go on my Blur LTc that is built up heavy. While I try to float over the rocks as much as I can (the frame excels at that), I bash quite a bit too. And I am 260 lbs, which is close to their weight limit. But, like I said, I will visit this thread in the future, and I may change my mind. I am not in a hurry to build a new set, but can anytime (have King hubs ready, probably spokes too). One thing LB has going for it is that they can drill whatever holes I want, which in this case would be 36 for the rear and 32 for the front. So I will keep them in mind.

I have a set of Reynolds AM Carbons on my more XC/Trail bike, and those have been impressive (very stiff). But I do not use that bike in the more rocky areas.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Are there any other asian carbon companies making 23mm+ rims (internal)?

I'm close to pulling the trigger on these in matte UD, one regular strength, one extra stength with no internal spoke holes.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Are there any other asian carbon companies making 23mm+ rims (internal)?
> 
> I'm close to pulling the trigger on these in matte UD, one regular strength, one extra stength with no internal spoke holes.


I'd reckon there's hundreds. Whether you can get access to them, or they have websites or functioning CS dept's, I don't know. I'm hesitant to buy Chinese products at all, but the last 34 pgs of info and feedback have me considering these too. How do you install spokes if there's no spoke holes? I don't think LB has there magic carbon wheels avail yet =)


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.


Not sure the distance between outer and inner part is deep enough to get the nipple turned and through the hole. The hole is quite deep as the carbon is thick in this area, also it's not extremely wide as I struggled to get some nipples through fully, needing some force. I would suggest getting them to check the measurement as feel you are heading for a headache and having to drill holes yourself!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.


VERY interesting. I'm planning to run mine tubeless, and that's ingenious. Would practically be fail-safe and wouldn't have to mess with tape or rim strips. The magnet task would work through a carbon rim?


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Well,yeah it will work... And there is more than enough space to do it. You can even buy a kit with 2mm threaded steel "bullets" made for doing exactly that. Less holes = more continuous fibers = stronger wheel. I will definitely do this on my next set.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> VERY interesting. I'm planning to run mine tubeless, and that's ingenious. Would practically be fail-safe and wouldn't have to mess with tape or rim strips. The magnet task would work through a carbon rim?


Magnetic fields aren't alter by non-ferrous metals (in general), so only the distance can have an impact on the strength of your magnet. And even more since carbon won't do anything to a magnetic field, you have nothing to worry about beside making sure you have a good magnet not to waste time.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Apparently other people have ordered rims this way so there must be vertical room to flip the nipple and drop it through its hole. Can anyone dig up that cross section with all the measurements?


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Here's the crossectional diagram I was given.
gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb8535632/p4pb8535632.jpg

Scar


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

scar4me said:


> Here's the crossectional diagram I was given.
> gp1.pinkbike.org/p4pb8535632/p4pb8535632.jpg
> 
> Scar


Here's the image


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Apparently other people have ordered rims this way so there must be vertical room to flip the nipple and drop it through its hole. Can anyone dig up that cross section with all the measurements?


I can provide this as well. I emailed Nancy about this yesterday night actually, and here is the discussion:

Me: "Just one more question. Please see the attached diagram, where I'm asking for a measurement of something on the rim."
Nancy: "Hello Christ, It is 8mm. Thanks, Nancy"

8mm doesn't sound right to me. By process of elimination, you start with 22mm rim height - 8.5mm rim bed to bead top = 13.5mm possible. Then you subtract the lower rim wall thickness (which may be 4mm???), and I'm left with 9.5mm nipple well. Even if a 9.5mm well is accurate, that's not enough space to get nipples through the spoke hole, is it? Most nipples are 12-16mm length, so I'd like to hear how some got the nipples through those holes when the well is 8mm, possibly 9.5mm.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

chrisingrassia said:


> I can provide this as well. I emailed Nancy about this yesterday night actually, and here is the discussion:
> 
> Me: "Just one more question. Please see the attached diagram, where I'm asking for a measurement of something on the rim."
> Nancy: "Hello Christ, It is 8mm. Thanks, Nancy"
> ...


Like a box spring or mattress coming down a hallway and into a side door, enter it at an angle...


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

mattsavage said:


> Like a box spring or mattress coming down a hallway and into a side door, enter it at an angle...


I'm no engineer, but the angle you mention has to be adequate. The mattress can bend, the nipples and boxspring cannot. For a 12-16mm nipple, we'd need enough play in the angle to make up for 4-7mm of lost height. People with these wheels can confirm they're running the wheels with no spoke holes? Did you have to use shorter nipples than 14/16mm?


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## TrailBlazer42 (Jan 10, 2013)

Lelandjt said:


> There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.


Hi all, first post but been following this thread and the 29" rim thread. Like the idea of this, and as mentioned previously, fewer drilled holes also means fewer broken carbon fibres, which should give more rim strength?

Was also wondering as many have mentioned the spoke holes are all drilled dead centre of the rim, resulting in the spoke nipples bending the spokes. What about receiving the rim undrilled, and drilling yourself? This would allow the holes to be drilled at the correct angle for the nipple/spoke angle. I believe that the result could be a stronger rim as the spoke holes would be staggered instead of in a straight line.

Has anyone had the rim only drilled on the inside, and fed the nipples in through the valve hole? Seen a few posts of the idea, but not any feedback of weather it has been achieved, and with any success.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

Well, I guess that is settled... 8mm is the correct number. Guess it won't work after all. Also note the 3K layer inside- these are a UD finish rim with paint done by light-bicycle. So two facts checked in one post.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I just sent Nancy an email asking if there's enough room to maneuver nipples into their holes without rim bed holes. She said they've made rims this way but I was more explicit this time asking if it had worked out for the wheel builders. I always use 12mm nipples so I'd expect to need 11mm vertical space.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

There is more than 8mm from other angles, that is just the minimum dimension under the U in the channel. I'm a little surprised by this. The rim is pretty thick, and the holes are very square, meaning the entry angle will have to be straight. I was sure it would work, and took it on faith from Nancy... but I bet she was referring to their deep-section road wheels, not the wide 26" wheels! Well, facepalm me for advocating the idea earlier. It just made so much sense... My next order will be through drilled as well.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

eurotrash666 said:


> There is more than 8mm from other angles, that is just the minimum dimension under the U in the channel. I'm a little surprised by this. The rim is pretty thick, and the holes are very square, meaning the entry angle will have to be straight. I was sure it would work, and took it on faith from Nancy... but I bet she was referring to their deep-section road wheels, not the wide 26" wheels! Well, facepalm me for advocating the idea earlier. It just made so much sense... My next order will be through drilled as well.


Phew, thank god I didn't order mine without rim bed holes. It _is_ too bad though, as it would have been ideal for strength. I was skeptical about the nipples being able to "angle in." I'm a little confused on what you're showing in that pic though, are you actively measuring something or just showing the digital readout?


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Phew, thank god I didn't order mine without rim bed holes. It _is_ too bad though, as it would have been ideal for strength. I was skeptical about the nipples being able to "angle in." I'm a little confused on what you're showing in that pic though, are you actively measuring something or just showing the digital readout?


I'm measuring an invisible spoke nipple... ha, just showing the DRO.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

From talking to Nancy it doesn't sound like 12mm nipples will work without rim bed holes but she claims to have made rims like that in 650b. I'm trying to find the 650b thread so ask if someone there did it and what nipples they used but can't find it, help?


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Lelandjt said:


> From talking to Nancy it doesn't sound like 12mm nipples will work without rim bed holes but she claims to have made rims like that in 650b. I'm trying to find the 650b thread so ask if someone there did it and what nipples they used but can't find it, help?


Might be something in these, but I don't recall that conversation...

http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/carbon-rims-795024.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/650b-27-5/light-bicycles-carbon-wheelset-dt-swiss-hubs-829091.html


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## FlyingIrish (Jul 25, 2009)

Wow there really is alot of information here. 

Ok i have some questions.

Where do you order these from?
Tubeless?
Have they been breaking?

Oh goodie i can't wait to get some haha!!


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

Lelandjt said:


> From talking to Nancy it doesn't sound like 12mm nipples will work without rim bed holes but she claims to have made rims like that in 650b. I'm trying to find the 650b thread so ask if someone there did it and what nipples they used but can't find it, help?


I did just see this one... http://forums.mtbr.com/10035546-post25.html


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

I am about to pull the trigger on a set. I think I will just have them build with the Novatec hubs. I have a 2010 Specialized Enduro and will be getting another bike within a year. I was planning on ordering the 881/882 hubs, which I think should work fine. 20mm thru axle in the front and a QR 10x135 in the rear. 

Brian says these hubs won't fit my bike. What are the best Novatec hubs to put on these wheels? Going with the wider rims.


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## ang (Nov 25, 2010)

subscribed


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## Kronk (Jan 4, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> There's still external spoke holes but no internal ones on the rim bed. You thread a short bent piece of spoke into each nipple, drop them in the valve hole, use a magnet to move them to their spoke hole, and tweezers to pull them through. Tedious but with brass nipples it's a one time thing and it would be sweet to have no tape for tubeless.


Could you use something like is used to fish electrical wires through walls?
Send it through the valve hole, then hook a string to it at the spoke hole. Pull that to the valve hole, attach your nipple and pull it to the spoke hole.

Given clearance inside the rim for the nipple to make the turn into the spoke hole, of course.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

That's the problem, not e nouh vertical clearence to let the nipple make the turn into the hole. Getting it to that point is done with either strings or magnet/ bit of spoke/tweezers.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Do you guys think they would be willing to actually make a third version, the 26" wide tubeless ready with no outside drilling, just so we could all have a stronger and easier to set up tubeless wheel ?

I guess that if there is enough demand, they'll look into it.


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## juice (Feb 8, 2004)

clydecrash said:


> (have King hubs ready, probably spokes too).


At your size, if you ride fast, you might want to reconsider King hubs. They're 100% reliable for 95% of riders, and 0% reliable for the rest of us.

I've been following this thread, but decided I'd break these rims within a couple months. Oh well, I guess good, strong, reliable carbon rims are still a few years away. But I'm convinced they're coming. Sounds like we need something less stiff, but more resistant to cracking.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

Hey Folks,

just a quick thank you for all the information here...
here's my front wheel, 24hole (367g), Sapim CX-Ray straight pull, recycled SunRingle Charger Hubs.


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## shade13 (Jun 25, 2006)

*nice*



raschaa said:


> Hey Folks,
> 
> just a quick thank you for all the information here...
> here's my front wheel, 24hole (367g), Sapim CX-Ray straight pull, recycled SunRingle Charger Hubs.


i was planing on doing the same thing did you build the rear as well


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I just finished building up my Light-Bicycle AM rims. I asked for a 385g front and 400g rear rim. They were 383 & 406 which is impressively close. I skimped $$$ compared to bladed spokes and went with my normal DT Competition spokes and alloy nips (185g, 10g per 32). These are for a 20mm/142mm bike so I used my standard Atomlab Pimplite/DT 240 hub combo (177g, 240g). 1596g for $770 (hubs & spokes at near wholesale and no labor charge so $900-$1000 retail as a wheelset). They drop just over 1/2lb from my Hope/Flow EX wheelset that I sold for $400*.

*Was that a good deal for my neighbor? They were in new condition and I guessed that would be a fair price for both of us.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

shade13 said:


> i was planing on doing the same thing did you build the rear as well


Yo... rear is Sapim Race/CX-Ray


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## shade13 (Jun 25, 2006)

very very nice ,,,could i borrow spoke length you ware using ? for front and rear


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

shade13 said:


> very very nice ,,,could i borrow spoke length you ware using ? for front and rear


sure! but let me tell you, calculating straight-pull spokes is a PITA. took me roundabout 8 hours til I was confident enough to order the spokes (CX-Ray are NOT cheap^^). there is no real mathematical formula to get them exactly right because the position of the spoke heads is not on a "classic" determined flange circumference.

I used "Spokomat" (http://radtechnik.dyndns.org/spokomat.html#), Site is in German but the prog can be switched to english. It's really excellent, but advanced^^. The programmer/biker had some good tips on how to calculate straight-pull. In the end I started with the original Charger specs (ERD, hub geo measured) and iterated in the software til I got the original spoke lengths (with straight-pull you calculate with 2.5 crossing^^). then switched to the ERD I had measured of the carbon rims. You would have to check yours first anyways. I recycled the longest front spokes for rear nondrive side. rest then CX-Ray...

will get the spoke lengths to you this evening or tomorrow morning (+1 GMT) cause I am at work now...


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

Hey,

Original ChargerPro specs:
ERD(measured): 533
Spokelengths (as stated by SunRingle Support):
Front 265/266
Rear 265/263

after a lot of brainstorming I got the following:
LB standard rim (362g) ERD 539
LB heavier rim (402g) ERD 540

Spokes:

Front [email protected] [email protected]800N
Rear [email protected] [email protected]

I took the original 266 from front right to rear right (thinner spokes won't work here because of the tension needed for a stable build) and decided to take 2 20pc. packs of 268 CX-Ray (with nipples) and would have 4 backup spokes. Ordered another 20 original Sapim 14mm polyax nipples in black for the "old" spokes and a few backup.

Build was actually quite easy, dropped all the nipples in a cup of linseed oil to lubricate during tensioning and afterward the oil acts as threadlock. hit the tensions I wanted spot on with very little fluctuation... spoke lengths filled the nipples nicely

good luck


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> I just finished building up my Light-Bicycle AM rims. I asked for a 385g front and 400g rear rim. They were 383 & 406 which is impressively close. I skimped $$$ compared to bladed spokes and went with my normal DT Competition spokes and alloy nips (185g, 10g per 32). These are for a 20mm/142mm bike so I used my standard Atomlab Pimplite/DT 240 hub combo (177g, 240g). 1596g for $770 (hubs & spokes at near wholesale and no labor charge so $900-$1000 retail as a wheelset). They drop just over 1/2lb from my Hope/Flow EX wheelset that I sold for $400*.
> 
> *Was that a good deal for my neighbor? They were in new condition and I guessed that would be a fair price for both of us.


nice, I've got a pair of rims sitting in my office waiting to be weighed and built up! I asked for 400g rims, building up around DT 240s front and rear. debating spending the cash on Sapim CX Rays (seem to be half the price of DT Aeroblades) or just doing DT Comps. anyone know the weight diff per wheel? 25-50g I'm guessing. also debating allow versus brass nips. the thread with the corroded nips on Enve rims has me second guessing alloy. what's the weight penalty for brass nips?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

hardboiled said:


> Debating brass nips. the thread with the corroded nips on Enve rims has me second guessing alloy. what's the weight penalty for brass nips?


Actually after initially lacing and weighing with alloy nips I decided on brass and swapped them out before tensioning it all up. I could see that the spokes weren't gonna extend up to the top of the nipples and I've broken a few alloy nips when laced with spokes this length, just above the top of the spoke right at the nipple's mushroom. If the spokes were long enough to thread right to the end of the nipple I was gonna keep the alloy but that extra few mm of spoke length kind of offsets the weight difference. The weight difference for 32 nips was 20g. I did it because these rims allow high spoke tension which I wanted to take advantage of. I've only broken a few alloy nips over 20 years of riding but those wheels all had less tension than these and I just didn't want to have to worry about it. If your rims are set up with tubeless tape changing a broken nipple is a real pain.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

hardboiled said:


> ... debating spending the cash on Sapim CX Rays (seem to be half the price of DT Aeroblades) or just doing DT Comps. anyone know the weight diff per wheel? 25-50g I'm guessing. also debating allow versus brass nips. the thread with the corroded nips on Enve rims has me second guessing alloy. what's the weight penalty for brass nips?


as a "rule of thumb" you save 1.1g per spoke CX-Ray vs. 2-1.8-2, 64pc. 14mm alloy nips ca. 40g saved vs. brass. I see no reason to use brass nips if the spoke length is correct, which it should be in any case. Sapim and DT alloy nips are made of anodized 7075 T6 Alu. drop them in a cup of linseed oil before building (ok, you get oily fingers and rims^^) but that will help during tensioning, acts as a light threadlock and protects the contact between spoke and nipple at the threads where you "could" get some contact corrosion because of differing materials. DT prolock nips are a pita because they distort tensioning feel and make re-truing more difficult than necessary. Would recommend 14mm nips because the inner rim walls are quite thick. been using Sapim polyax for 10 years in german rain, snow, salt, never had corrosion even after 3-4 years.... btw, tensile strength of 7075 alu is above that of brass^^ I have no idea what kind of nips those enve were and what happened to them, but they look like raw alu immersed in sea water for ages...

notubes rimstrip is supposedly made by TESA, a 50m roll of Tesa strapping tape is enough for about 25 rims, removes residue free and costs ~10euros here in germany, so thats a non issue in my eyes...

Oh, and you HAVE to have a top notch perfect fitting spokewrench...
justmy2


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

I totally agree with Lelandjt. Lightweight race equipment is meant to be raced, and generally does not have a very long life. Alloy nipples are a perfect example of this- there is a benefit to reducing rotating mass at the cost of longevity on race day. Is that appropriate for someone who burns a wheelset every season? Probably. Is it appropriate for a dedicated hobbyist who wants the most from his equipment? Probably not... In nearly 30 years of cycling as my number one activity, I've maintained all sorts of wheelsets. I can say that in my experience, wheels with aluminum nipples need more frequent tensioning, and show wear on the nipple seats, threads, and wrench flats. I favor brass for strength and durability, and would prefer to get two or three seasons out of a wheelset if possible!

Here, elasticity and plasticity are better with brass than aluminum- it's not all about tensile strength.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

for all of you who wondered if this carbon rims any good for DH.....

here is, me and my friend Dan riding ours turners DHR's with this carbon rims on both our bikes.

I Love it Video - Pinkbike

and here are some photos of my DHR

Yossi_Sarusi's Turner - Yossi_Sarusi's Bike Check - Vital MTB


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## geo025 (Dec 20, 2010)

saruti said:


> for all of you who wondered if this carbon rims any good for DH.....
> 
> here is, me and my friend Dan riding ours turners DHR's with this carbon rims on both our bikes.
> 
> ...


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## 5power (Jul 26, 2010)

That's dope! Love the flow bike is hot in the tennis ball yellow. I have a set of these rims on my Stumpy evo but after seeing you rock them on your dh bike I may have to throw them on my Dh rig.


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## MisterXT (Dec 5, 2007)

Have here anybody expiriences with the Nancy Wheels and Onza Tires?
Tried to mount an Onza Canis with the Tesa YellowTape but failed. Never had this before. I ride Tubeless since Years and never had problems like now. 
The Tire (Onza Canis 2.25FR) absolutely not pops in its correct seat. 
Tried it with soapy water, with and without milk, sqeezed and massaged The Tire while inflating and many more tricks which were succesfull The last times. 
But nothing worked here?
Is here the last possibilty the Bontystrip?
Or have somebody another Tricks or hints?


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

I have Onza Greina 2,25 120tpi up front and Ibex 2,25 in back. Both were no problem with Stans tape....


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
Pics:
pinkbike.com/photo/9219678/
pinkbike.com/photo/9219682/

Not running silly tyre pressure, or hitting rocks/silly terrain.
Happened on a high speed loamy corner, 35PSI in a 2.4 Nobby Nic, heard a crack and started loosing tyre pressure.
Delaminated on the 3k weave at the edge of the bead, and leaked sealant through the weave!
Won't seal tubeless now on anything higher than 10PSI   .
Time to speak to Nancy....

Scar


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

MisterXT said:


> Have here anybody expiriences with the Nancy Wheels and Onza Tires?
> Tried to mount an Onza Canis with the Tesa YellowTape but failed. Never had this before. I ride Tubeless since Years and never had problems like now.
> The Tire (Onza Canis 2.25FR) absolutely not pops in its correct seat.
> Tried it with soapy water, with and without milk, sqeezed and massaged The Tire while inflating and many more tricks which were succesfull The last times.
> ...


I swapped some Conti MKII 2.4"s from Flow rims where they could sometimes be seated with a floor pump and instantly seated with a compressor to these LB rims. The shape of the rim channel isn't as good and they weren't inflating (high capacity compressor at 115psi) so I had to remove the valve core to increase air flow. That did it and they seated and sealed right up. No air loss since. So they don't mount tubeless quite as easily as Notubes or UST rims but still better than some.


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## MisterXT (Dec 5, 2007)

@Raschaa: exactly my Fall and Spring combination which i ride actually on a Flow. When it becomes dryer i would like to ride the Ibex in front and the Canis in rear on the LB-Rims. 

@lelandjt: yes, i removed the valve Core and i have here in the Shop a Big compressor with enough power.

Next week i start the next try with two layers of DuctTape. Maybe this is enough.


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## eurotrash666 (Jan 19, 2012)

scar4me said:


> Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
> Scar


That sucks! It looks like the 3k layer is coming up in the pics, but it's gotta be straight through if you lost air and sealant. If warranty doesn't pan out, I would try working some polyester epoxy into the split and sticking to XC... Bummer, dude!


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

yo, bummer4sure, keep us posted on how LB treat you...


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## MisterXT (Dec 5, 2007)

Finally i got it!
Put two layers of ole Tesa DuctTape in the rim (i cut it a little bit wider, about 27mm), used the AirPort direct on the compressor and filled direct milk in the tire. 
And it worked!

Thanks for all tipps!


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## Disco Stu (Jan 27, 2005)

My rear wheel came apart in two places (looks a lot like scar's pic above)
Been 10 days and have sent 3 emails with pics to Nancy, Brian, support and no effing response.


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

Disco Stu said:


> My rear wheel came apart in two places (looks a lot like scar's pic above)
> Been 10 days and have sent 3 emails with pics to Nancy, Brian, support and no effing response.


Chinese New Year. They should be back to work any day now.


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## dawgman25 (Nov 14, 2010)

Starting to see more issues with these wheels. They have improved the manufacturing process for their 29er and 650b wheels, but have not yet done this for the 26" wheels. Brian has said they will probably make the change at some point. I am hoping sooner rather than later as I have been holding off buying a set until the new manufacturing process starts.


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

scar4me said:


> Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
> Pics:
> pinkbike.com/photo/9219678/
> pinkbike.com/photo/9219682/
> ...


Not trying to assign any blame here, but that is a pretty high pressure for a tubeless tire of that size. Might want to think about dialing it down a bit in future.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Spsoon, thats a perfect pressure in my opinion, and what I run to _prevent_ issues. Curious why you feel it should be less?


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

Are you running the Bonty TLR Strips or the rhythm Strips? I have the 26" wider (23 mm x 30 mm Light Bicycle Rims and want to go tubeless.
Thanks, Ken


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

dawgman25 said:


> They have improved the manufacturing process for their 29er and 650b wheels, but have not yet done this for the 26" wheels. Brian has said they will probably make the change at some point.


I was under the impression that all of their rims have seen subtle running changes in the layup as they've found ways to improve them. You seem to be alluding to a more significant change in shape or build technique. Can you provide more details?


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> I was under the impression that all of their rims have seen subtle running changes in the layup as they've found ways to improve them. You seem to be alluding to a more significant change in shape or build technique. Can you provide more details?


Technology Improve Of Light-Bicycle Carbon MTB 650B Rims Light-Bicycle

Only being done with the 650 and 29er rims so far.

From the text below the article.
"Light-Bicycle :
Hello Michael,Thanks for your inquiry.For the new process, we are now testing on 29er wide rims. For 26er wide rims, currently, we do not have the plan to change it to use new manufacturing. 26er wide rims failure rate is very low.The strength is now stable. But we will consider it after Chinese New Year vacation( Feb 4th to Feb 17th).Now, we are doing on 29er wider rims. If everything goes on well, we will try on 26er wide rims. Because it takes some time to test, also to modify the pre-molds.Thanks,Light-bicycle"


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Wow, you gotta be impressed with the openness of this company and their commitment to improvement. I also get the impression that warranties of "old construction" rims will be replaced with their latest version so I have no worries about having purchased already. I'm used to killing a couple alloy rims a year and sometimes swapping a new rim over in the pits. Cheap carbon rims that continue to improve and are backed up by a warranty and crash replacement plan are awesome! I realize for some people a rim failure is a bigger deal but learn to build wheels and it's as simple as swapping any other part out. I just wonder how much longer Easton, Reynolds, Specialized, DT, and Enve will be able to sell $800 rims and $2000 wheelsets.


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## goodmojo (Sep 12, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> Wow, you gotta be impressed with the openness of this company and their commitment to improvement. I also get the impression that warranties of "old construction" rims will be replaced with their latest version so I have no worries about having purchased already. I'm used to killing a couple alloy rims a year and sometimes swapping a new rim over in the pits. Cheap carbon rims that continue to improve and are backed up by a warranty and crash replacement plan are awesome! I realize for some people a rim failure is a bigger deal but learn to build wheels and it's as simple as swapping any other part out. I just wonder how much longer Easton, Reynolds, Specialized, DT, and Enve will be able to sell $800 rims and $2000 wheelsets.


specialized is at 1200 so is very competitive


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## spsoon (Jul 28, 2008)

thuren said:


> Spsoon, thats a perfect pressure in my opinion, and what I run to _prevent_ issues. Curious why you feel it should be less?


Running tubeless, high pressure, and fat tires are all factors that increase stress on the rim. The manufacturer recommends max 40psi (without specifying a tire size), so 35psi with a 2.4 tire might be pushing it.


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## hardboiled (Jun 10, 2006)

based on the results posted in this thread, it seems that the weak spot of these rims is against impact so I'll take my chances running slightly higher pressures to protect against rim strikes. I had to run at least 32psi in the rear of my 500g alu rims to prevent strikes/dents (and still got them occasionally) so I'm used to it. I'm running about 34-35 psi rear and 32-33 front with the light bicylce rims to be conservative. only 3 rides on them so far, so time will tell.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

spsoon said:


> Running tubeless, high pressure, and fat tires are all factors that increase stress on the rim. The manufacturer recommends max 40psi (without specifying a tire size), so 35psi with a 2.4 tire might be pushing it.


I emailed them about this before. On the 26er wide rims they said the max pressure is what's on the tire. You will notice wider tires say Lower max pressures and for the sizes I had 2.2 & 2.35 LB said the max was what was listed on my tires.

One thing to keep in mind though is that when you go tubeless the max pressure becomes lower and is no longer specified ( this is what Schwable told me and they said it was important for rims and the tires I think they said they don't even test what the max is due to variations in rims and the fact that they seemed to think high pressure tubeless was weird anyway). Basically if you want to run high pressures use tubes and go by what it says on the tire.

That being said Schwable says 35psi max for tubeless and with a 2.4 I'd say 35psi is pretty darn high.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

*Warranty success *



scar4me said:


> Managed to get my 3k matt finish rim to delaminate yesterday .
> Pics:
> pinkbike.com/photo/9219678/
> pinkbike.com/photo/9219682/
> ...


Well after not hearing back from them for a week I ended up going onto their website and using the "chat to us" function.
Brian was very helpful, and they are now sending me out a warranty replacement heavy duty rim (and I'm covering the cost of shipping).

I've been speaking to a number of other bike component suppliers who've been out to the factories to source their own rims, and their are some issues with the process for the current cheap 26er rims.
Basically the bladder that is supposed to help form the internal channel and pressurise the moulding isn't very good. This can leave voids and wrinkles in the internal moulding. Externally they all look great, but internally they aren't very tidy e.g. there isn't a consistent finish internally, and sometimes there are even bits of the bladder still in there.
(They will publish their results soon, and are getting the strength tests verified by an independent university over here, so watch this space.)

This is where they get the production variations of weight for "heavy duty" rims. Basically these rims have less voids/more epoxy, so a higher finishing weight.

I do know 35PSI is at the very top of tubeless pressures, but I'm not a light rider and ride very rough/rocky/rooty tracks so wanted to avoid rim strikes. 
They rode extremely well with the nobby nic at that pressure though.

Scar


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

My LBS just finished building a set up for me. Rims were 391/392gm. All said and done with hope pro2 evos and dt comp spokes, 737/851 f/r. 1588 gm total. Not bad. Should be an improvement in weight, stiffness, and engagement over my stumpy evo's stock roval whatevers.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

As a side note, I'm currently riding about 15psi f/r on 2.4 tires, using tubes, on alloy rims of similar width of these carbon ones and this is on hardpack snow and ice trails, and I'm 110lbs. Tires are also DIY studded for optimal fun factor.

When I'll have my 26" wider wheelset from them, I'll be running 2.0-2.1 tires and I shouldn't be under 25psi not to risk any pinch flat or even more to bottom out the tire onto the rim. This is gonna be on a XC bike too.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

*Tubeless attempts....*

Finally had some time to get tires mounted on these. Let me first establish:

Kenda excavators 2.35f/2.1r
Mounted kind of loosely without lots of force required to get tires on rim. Using tubes, beads popped into place no problem at about 30 psi.

Attempting tubeless with a single layer on Stan's yellow tape (25mm). Wasn't getting any seal to build pressure and pop tires into bead. I think the tires are just so loose there are too many gaps/leak spots. I tried a 2nd layer of Stan's to no avail.

At this point I am thinking rather than have so many layers of tape that maybe a tubeless rim strip is the way to go. I've read the bontrager Rhythm strips are good on these rims, is there a particular model # for these? Do I get as wide as possible to fit the 25mm internal width of the rim?

Anyone had success with other rim strips? Any Stan's strips that work with these 26" wider rims?

I will likely also ride these tires with tubes for a few ride to break them in, perhaps mounting will go better then?


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## baltik (Nov 16, 2005)

For those of you that have run flow's in the3 past - how would you compare them to the carbon wheels - in terms of durability, rigidity and ease of mounting tires/burping


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## kardne (Jan 25, 2013)

Has anyone bought complete wheels from them? 
wider carbon 26er bicycle wheels mountain bike downhill wheels Light-Bicycle

Any news about the upgraded version of the rims?


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

hey andy,
had a similar problem with mine and smeared some sealant on the tire beads of the mounted tires, popped right on^^


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I had my first solid rock strike on these rims Sunday, pinch flatted my UST tyre and only left the slightest of grazes on the bead! When I heard the clunk and hiss of air after, I pictured the bead being cracked. Well chuffed, touch wood these rims seem solid. :thumbsup:

I bought mine in the summer so got them fairly early on when people seemed to be suffering with week beads and questioning the strength of them.

The build is 26" wider 3K with sapim cx-ray spokes on CK hubs, run with bonty rim strips and conti rubber queen 2.2 UST tyres.


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## motochick (Jun 22, 2010)

I am about to order a front wheel complete and a rim to build my my own rear, in the 3k matte "wider" 26in. I have read thru all of this thread, and most of the 650/29r threads, and I would like some clarification from those of you with purchasing experience. Will I have to pay something to get my box thru customs? I am in AZ, USA. If so, how much? Will I get a bill? 

Next question, the stated ERD is 536....will they measure my solo rear rim before they ship so I can order the correct spokes? Have the ERD measurements been freakishly off? 

Thanks in advance for any help any of you can provide.

Brenda


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

Can't help you with the customs stuff because I'm in Germany...

My measured ERD was 539 for the standard weight rim and 540 for the heavier (402g) rim. if you want to play it safe, I'd wait for the rims and measure them before ordering spokes...


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## xc71 (Dec 24, 2008)

motochick said:


> I am about to order a front wheel complete and a rim to build my my own rear, in the 3k matte "wider" 26in. I have read thru all of this thread, and most of the 650/29r threads, and I would like some clarification from those of you with purchasing experience. Will I have to pay something to get my box thru customs? I am in AZ, USA. If so, how much? Will I get a bill?
> 
> Next question, the stated ERD is 536....will they measure my solo rear rim before they ship so I can order the correct spokes? Have the ERD measurements been freakishly off?
> 
> ...


I just got two of the same rims, 3K matte, wider 26", 360 & 357 grams. I measured ERD and both are 538.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

My experience is the ERD is about 2mm more than listed, so no big deal as only equates to 1mm on each spoke.


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## motochick (Jun 22, 2010)

OK, so I will make sure they measure the rim before shipping. What about customs? Anyone from the US buying these?

Brenda


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

motochick said:


> OK, so I will make sure they measure the rim before shipping. What about customs? Anyone from the US buying these?
> 
> Brenda


I bought a set. No customs charge for me in NY.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

So, reading through the comment on the LB website, is it correct to say that UD is marginally stronger to most forces, but 3K weave has stronger eyelets?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

half_man_half_scab said:


> So, reading through the comment on the LB website, is it correct to say that UD is marginally stronger to most forces, but 3K weave has stronger eyelets?


They have been saying the 3k is stronger but it's really just 1 layer and I doubt you'll see an actual difference. I've had my rims for 6 months now and am very happy and confident in them. I got ud outer layer because I don't like the 3k or 12k look.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Has anyone been using aluminium nipples had any issues with corrosion like in this ENVE thread:

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html

How about the few people that took their DT 5.1/EX500 rims off their Industry 9 wheelset and used these rims instead - any noticeable issues?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

006_007 said:


> Has anyone been using aluminium nipples had any issues with corrosion like in this ENVE thread:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html
> 
> How about the few people that took their DT 5.1/EX500 rims off their Industry 9 wheelset and used these rims instead - any noticeable issues?


http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=822483

I went from 4.2d rims to these and am very happy, huge improvement. Very noticeable. Would buy these again without a second thought to any alloy rim.

Since I rebuilt these rims after my self inflicted nipple failure I have has no problems whatsoever.


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## SwintOrSlude (Apr 26, 2011)

Funny that one mentions the corrosion issue...

This is what happened to my rear rim 2 weeks ago:










I believe this happened because of me riding in the snow, although I've only been off-road with my bike, so don't really know how I could have gotten salt to attack my nipples (please do not quote that sentence outside this thread...  ).

Anyway, changed 3 nipples, trued the rim, and everything is back to the normal.

The fact that the carbon rim isolates the nipple sure does not help for corrosion.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I've had the corroded nipple problem myself, but with standard rims on a commuter. Halfway through the second winter on the bike, the nipples started cracking and then actually losing chunks. Eventually I had to replace all of them with brass.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

I ordered a full wheelset, and they arrived nicely boxed and intact. LB wrote them up as "sample" for customs purposes, so I paid no extra tax or duty.

I mounted a Conti Baron and Rubber Queen tubeless. I tried Gorilla tape first, but the tire was so loose on the rim that it wouldn't air up at all. Eventually I used a strip of sill gasket and split tube. Worked well, although the tires are porous and took a while before they would hold air overnight. 

Test ride was good. As others have said, if you're feeling lateral flex, it's not going to be the wheels


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

006_007 said:


> Has anyone been using aluminium nipples had any issues with corrosion like in this ENVE thread:
> 
> http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html
> 
> How about the few people that took their DT 5.1/EX500 rims off their Industry 9 wheelset and used these rims instead - any noticeable issues?


Mine experienced it and a number of spokes broke over the winter. I had un-anodized aluminum nipples that were covered in white corrosion. But, I also noticed that the spokes on the broken ones were not very deep into the nipples themselves so I think it could have been a combination of corrosion with undue stress.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

amazing...I searched this thread for "sticker" and "decal" and got "sorry no matches"!? I find that hard to believe...

anyway, I built a set of these in gloss black over the winter. I was thinking of adding a decal to jazz it up a little bit. Anyone have an example of what you've done?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I plan on riding these in the winter too, should I get all brass nipples or is this corrosion issue not limited to carbon rims only ? Never had any problem with nipple corrosion from either my commuters or MTB, both used during winter and on the streets too, not only off-road.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> I plan on riding these in the winter too, should I get all brass nipples or is this corrosion issue not limited to carbon rims only ? Never had any problem with nipple corrosion from either my commuters or MTB, both used during winter and on the streets too, not only off-road.


Read up on the Enve thread about the nipple corrosion - My understanding / concern is that this is happening due to the reaction between the carbon rims and aluminum nipples.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Hmm, interesting. I'll check on that. Worst case I'll get all brass just to play it safe, it's not like a few more grams would make such a difference anyway. Thanks.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

David C said:


> Hmm, interesting. I'll check on that. Worst case I'll get all brass just to play it safe, it's not like a few more grams would make such a difference anyway. Thanks.


Right. I'd say that's not even a true worst case. Some (including me) argue brass is a better option, even considering the weight.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Changing gears a bit, but one more thumbs up for the bontrager rhythm strips. Tried setting up tubeless with just some Stan's tape (25mm wide) and had no luck. Tires were just too loose. (Kenda excavators 2.35/2.1 f/r) Decided to go for the bounty strips and wow, these things are a perfect fit. As if they were made for the rim. With just a single wrap of electrical tape over the spoke holes, then the strip, then tire - they sealed up nice and easy. A couple scoops of Stan's juice and its all good in the hood.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

I've got two rides on these rims on pretty rough terrain and wanted to offer another endorsement. So far I am very happy. I had good luck getting a new single ply minion DHF ST, and, surprisingly, a used 60a high roller mounted tubeless with a layer of gorilla tape, cafe latex tubeless valves and two scoops of Stan's sealant. The wheels were noticeably easier to accelerate and "snappier" than my previous build. I've got my fingers crossed on durability, hoping for a long happy relationship! but performance so far has been stellar. Well worth the $300 upgrade.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I switched over from flows to these and am pretty damn satisfied. Definitely lovin' the corners more. 

I have velox rim tape over the nipples, with a single layer of stans tape over it. It seats my specialized 2bliss with a floor pump more easily than the flows did with a little bit of stans.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm really liking these rims but I really think they made the bead bed too high. It's just way too hard to get a tire seated. My Continental Race King 2.2 Super Sonics are super loose on most rims and on these its tough to get them on. I have to lube the bead very well and pump it to around 50psi to get it to seat.

Today I tried putting some Schwable Nobby Nic 2.35 evo tubless ready pace star tires on and just couldn't get the bead to seat. I said **** it and went up to 60 psi. I could see the lube squirting out around where it hadn't seated yet but it wasn't even sounding like it was about to pop on. 

I am using the schwable tire lube. I might be able to use pure soap and mount it but last time I tried that it corroded my nipples to failure. 

I'm just using tubes for right now as I don't see how it will work tubeless if I cant even get it going with tubes.

Any ideas of what I could do to maybe get this to work or am I just SOL?

Thanks!


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Tried it again with some ky-jelly type stuff. Lube everywhere, tire doesn't seem like its about to seat even at 55psi. Interesting thing is usually it's unseated in the same area on both sides (I think its random where it happens but it's usually symmetrical).


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

I had the same problem when trying to seat a tubless tires
but with regular tires its fine
I used some grease on the lips of the tubless tires and it helped a lot.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

I have gone over to lubing with the sealant, results have been so much better and tire seats and seals a lot faster...

@litany
I wouldn't rule out that the schwalbe tires themselves are the problem. I have been running different schwalbes tubeless on a lot of different rims for the past 5-6 years and they have always been flaky regarding seating cleanly. Even when seated and sealed they would always have a wobble in them somewhere, their QC on carcass and bead leaves to be desired...


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

My schwalbes seat quite well (nobby nic, racing Ralph) using schwalbe easyfit and compressor with one round of yellow tape


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## sbrdude1 (Jun 17, 2011)

My issue with broken aluminum nipples was due to the mecganic wjo built my weel not taping the rims very well. Keep in mind that the old Stan's sealant has amonia which is corrosive to aluminum so look for the newer formula that is amonia free.


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

hssp said:


> My schwalbes seat quite well (nobby nic, racing Ralph) using schwalbe easyfit and compressor with one round of yellow tape


Are your Schwables the tubeless ready?


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

litany said:


> Are your Schwables the tubeless ready?


Yes they are. All newer schwalbes are


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Does anyone know if Light Bicycle has adopted the new manufacturing techniques on their 26" rims?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

macming said:


> Does anyone know if Light Bicycle has adopted the new manufacturing techniques on their 26" rims?


I don't know but I wouldn't let that put me off ordering them. I think the rims are currently very durable. I know I've bottomed the Rim out hard a few times and there is nothing.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

litany said:


> I don't know but I wouldn't let that put me off ordering them. I think the rims are currently very durable. I know I've bottomed the Rim out hard a few times and there is nothing.


I actually have a set from their very first batch. Just waiting for the new rims to build another wheelset.

I'm not in a hurry, so I can wait a bit longer


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

macming said:


> I actually have a set from their very first batch. Just waiting for the new rims to build another wheelset.
> 
> I'm not in a hurry, so I can wait a bit longer


Your set with the I9 spokes still holding up ok?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

macming said:


> Does anyone know if Light Bicycle has adopted the new manufacturing techniques on their 26" rims?


Nancy told me a few weeks ago that they would not do until they finish improving the designs of the 29/650b ones first. But may eventually also improve the 26" ones to the new process when they get there.


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## dsintov (Apr 13, 2010)

i work in the transport industry and trying to reduce the cost of tire failures, one of the things we tried is to use tire sealant similar to stans and found the sealant would corrode steel wheels from the inside faster than road salt.
aluminum wheels are not affected by sealant.
if you want your wheels to last for a long time with sealant in them you ay want to consider getting some rims without spoke holes (i know mavic makes some)
or get some industry 9 with aluminum spokes and aluminum rims that do not require nipples,and then wrap the valve stem with teflon tape.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

dsintov said:


> i work in the transport industry and trying to reduce the cost of tire failures, one of the things we tried is to use tire sealant similar to stans and found the sealant would corrode steel wheels from the inside faster than road salt.
> aluminum wheels are not affected by sealant.
> if you want your wheels to last for a long time with sealant in them you ay want to consider getting some rims without spoke holes (i know mavic makes some)
> or get some industry 9 with aluminum spokes and aluminum rims that do not require nipples,and then wrap the valve stem with teflon tape.


Interesting, everything you say goes against the evidence in this thread regarding Aluminium nipples/carbon wheels/sealant:

http://forums.mtbr.com/wheels-tires/enve-wheel-nipple-corrosion-835853.html


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## dberndt (Apr 17, 2010)

Adding a data point. Got my LB 26" rims built at 377/378 grams each. I asked for them to be a bit heavier as I'm a heavy guy (220 + a big pack). 

Built these onto a set of straight pull roval hubs with dt swiss internals (24 spoke front with drive side radially laced with 8 spokes, 28 spokes rear). The ERD seems quite close on the rim as best I could measure it. I didn't have exact details for the hub and I picked up my measurements using some calipers and modelling the hub in solidworks. So I may have made a measurement/modelling mistake or a straight pull newb mistake. My spokes could have been 1mm, maybe 2mm in some cases longer. I build with antiseize in the nipple-rim interface and alloy nipples. Will see how that works out long term. Built them to about 125kgf according to my park TM-1 using Sapim Race spokes.

I've got about 100km on these so far and despite having fewer spokes than my old flow/pro2 combo these feel just as stiff, possibly stiffer. I used the Bontrager Rhythm rim strips and they make mounting hans dampfs a bit hard, but it was easy to air them up and they've not burped thus far at 29psi. With rim strips include I saved about 200 grams over my old wheels.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Anyone notice that the ERD on these is 536, the same as the Flow? I've got a spare Flow rim that I'll keep around in case I crush one of these right before a race.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

Not always...
seems they vary between 536 and 540, the heavier ones with an extra carbon layer tend to have larger ERD. my 2 rims measured 8x around the circumference were 539/540...


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I finally got my 2.35 Schwalbe nobby nic evo pace star tires mounted. I first put them on some old DTSwiss rims last night and I guess the bead streched out enough I was able--just--to get them on. I still had to go to about 60psi though. 

Unfortunately I hate the tires. They are ****ing terrible. At certain lean angles they seem to lose a LOT of grip. They have less grip than my race kings on loose over hard pack and hard pack. Better braking but that's about it. I ordered some x-kings hopefully they are better. If they are anything like my race kings they will be way easier to install.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

litany said:


> I finally got my 2.35 Schwalbe nobby nic evo pace star tires mounted. I first put them on some old DTSwiss rims last night and I guess the bead streched out enough I was able--just--to get them on. I still had to go to about 60psi though.
> 
> Unfortunately I hate the tires. They are ****ing terrible. At certain lean angles they seem to lose a LOT of grip. They have less grip than my race kings on loose over hard pack and hard pack. Better braking but that's about it. I ordered some x-kings hopefully they are better. If they are anything like my race kings they will be way easier to install.


Nobby Nics are way better than the X-Kings, IMO. I ran Xkings for a couple races, but switched them out. They don't work well as tubeless, burp and weep all day long, and these are the new "tubeless approved" models. They're especially bad on hardpack and loose over hard, you'll roll those things right off the rims if you're not careful.


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## kanekikapu (May 24, 2009)

Decided to get a set after lurking this thread for like forever. Ordered 5/13. Shipped 5/16 and delivered 5/20! Package was well packaged. Got the wider rim with D881/D882 and 20mm front axle caps from bdop cycling in taiwan ($3.00 standard shipping got it in 3 days to California too!). Everything looks good and well made. 

There's definitely a learning curve on mounting them tires. In case, Nobby Nic off my Sun Charger Pros

1. 1 layer of gorilla tape + caffelatex - nope
2. 2 layers of gorilla tape + caffelatex - nope
3. left a single layer of gorilla tape as rim strip + split 24" tube + plus some CaffeLatex/Stan mix and it hold 50psi overnight. Lowered to 28 last night and seemed okay so far. 

I have no problems mounting tires to my charger pros with caffelatex so I am sure it wasn't a sealant problem. 

Can't wait to take them out!


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

You guys really should try the Bontrager Rhythm strips, if you haven't yet. SUCH a clean setup, and adds the small bead lip to help prevent burps.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

thuren said:


> You guys really should try the Bontrager Rhythm strips, if you haven't yet. SUCH a clean setup, and adds the small bead lip to help prevent burps.


this +1


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## kanekikapu (May 24, 2009)

I hear ya. Called around and none of the shops close by have them in stock… Gonna order some and put them in next time around


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Does the Bonti strip replace rim tape?


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## Johnnydrz (Jul 8, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> Does the Bonti strip replace rim tape?


I'd like to know too... I just got delivery of 3 pairs of Bonti strips and will be trying them out on my wide 26" LB rims...

Thanks,

Johnnydrz


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> Does the Bonti strip replace rim tape?


In my case, it did. I had no luck with Stan's tape so I removed it. I put one wind of electrical tape just to cover the spoke holes then put the bonty strip in. Fits the rim perfectly and my excavators aired up and sealed really well. YMMV, depending on the tires you are mounting though.


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## BCBlur (Nov 23, 2004)

bad andy said:


> In my case, it did. I had no luck with Stan's tape so I removed it. I put one wind of electrical tape just to cover the spoke holes then put the bonty strip in. Fits the rim perfectly and my excavators aired up and sealed really well. YMMV, depending on the tires you are mounting though.


I'm running strapping tape under mine.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

What does Bontrager say? Do you have to tape the spoke holes or can the strip replace tape?


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Lelandjt said:


> What does Bontrager say? Do you have to tape the spoke holes or can the strip replace tape?


When used with bonty rims you do not use tape.


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## buggymancan (Jan 30, 2005)

I am running a Specialized Fast Trak 26 x 2.25 on the wider LB carbon Rim, using Rhythm Strips. I notice when installing the strips that they seat very close to the bottom of the bead hook. I am concerned that the strips might interfere with the proper bead seating. The strips really help with the tubeless tire inflation, but I am noticing with the thinner Spec. tire sidewalls, when running lower pressures, I can literally flex the tire laterally and could probably push the sidewall bead inward enough the cause the bead to pop loose, resulting in a catrosphic loss of air or burping. Any thoughts on this? I am thinking of trimming the Rhythm strips slightly to provide better bead hook seating? The reason I say this is I am running the same Bonty 26" Rhythm Strips on at set of 650b LB Carbon rims (same cross section) , and due to the extra stretch the rim strips sit a little lower on the bead hook. The 650 b tires I mounted with the strips are working perfectly. Any thoughts?


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## TX_CLG (Sep 14, 2010)

Looking at getting of set of these. Any reports on the longevity of the standard hubs?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I just setup my Continental Race King Race Sport 2.2 tires on these rims. Easiest tubeless install I have ever done. The tires were mounted previously with a tube (putting a tube in them for a few days helps them take shape, they have a very very thin carcass so being the proper shape really helps them inflate). I taped the rim up with Specialized Roval tape (basically the same as Stan's tape but blue and you get like 50x more for the same money) put in a Stan's valve (Universal 35mm Mountain Valve Stem (Pair)) removed the valve core, added sealant, and aired them up with the compressor. Didn't have to use any soapy water or bead lubricant at all, the beads just steated at about 15-20 psi. I inflated them to 30 and put the valve core back in. I pumped them up and sloshed the sealant around until the sidewalls sealed.

Fantastically easy install. I've only ever used this type of tire tubeless with DT Swiss XR4.1d and XR4.2d rims (XR400 I think they are called now) and they were much, much harder to do then. These rims work great with Contis! Good thing Conti makes my favorite tires (x-kings and race kings)!


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## Jave (Feb 22, 2011)

Been reading lots on these wheels but still don't have a clear idea whether I can use them for my intended purpose or not. I ride mostly Whistler (not bike park)/Squamish/North Shore trails. I never do more than a 4ft drop and even that's rare but I do bomb down pretty rough trails at good speed. I weigh 175lbs geared up and I think I'm a fairly smooth rider going down. I've never had a flat in the 3 years I've been riding and I don't tend to smash into stuff often.

I would be getting the wide 26" carbon wheels and running them tubeless but I'm still worried about breaking them. Should I be?


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

With reasonable air pressure I think you'll be fine. I'm about 10lbs heavier, ride a hardtail on rooty/rocky stuff (in the Rockies) with drops and the rims are holding up just fine. At first I was worried about loose rocks striking the rims but there has be no damage at all so far. I've run too low pressures as well and bottomed out the rim and there was no damage then either. Also, I should note that I do not have "beefed up" rims from LB.

FWIW, Continental Mountain King II 2.4's have been great for me on these rims.


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

I'm 210lb +kit, and have broken a rear rim but that was a non heavy duty one.
It failed along one of the weave lines, so likely a manufacturing defect.
They warranty replaced if for the cost of shipping, and I got a heavy duty UD one instead.

My advice would be high volume and higher pressures, with good tyres.
I'm now running 2.4 Schwable Evo Fat Albert and Nobby Nic's (F 35psi & R 38psi).
I've taken them into extremely rocky fast sections, that I'd have been nervous taking my regular wheelset into at speed, and they come out fine.
Just do what you can to avoid sharp impacts directly on the rim (hence the tyre volume/pressure advice).

I tried mountain king II 2.4's and found they were a bit skittish and the sidewalls were really thin. So switched to the schwable's and they are so much more stable and grippy without sacrificing rolling speed. I've much more confidence in them than conti's.

Now I don't even think twice about my wheels when riding!


Scar


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

185lb geared up, normal front rim, HD Rear, 24 Spokes (OMG), 2,35 Hans Dampf @ 26-30psi, Tubeless with Stans tape.

was kind of tentative at first but after having the rear tire hop off the rim completely (must have been losing pressure somewhere, because it hasn't happened again) and doing 500 yards DH on the rim only with no scathing whatsoever, I threw caution to the wind and now hammer them like any other wheelset before.

I am impressed, they are holding up really well and are as straight and true as day one! I was figuring the increased stiffness of a carbon rim would allow 24 spokes and til now its all working out nicely.


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## sraak (Oct 30, 2011)

raschaa said:


> .... and doing 500 yards DH on the rim only with no scathing whatsoever....


Wow, that's all kinds of awesome. These rims are great.


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## kramster (May 25, 2006)

One more happy customer here. 

I've got a set on my Nomad and I've put about 50 rides on them. I've beat them hard, taken big drops, high speed rocky rough stuff, jumps and whatever else. At first I was tentative but now I just hammer into things with no regard. 

I have them setup tubeless with 2.5 exo minion fr and hr2 rear. Setup easy and no problem since. Spokes don't even need tensioning yet and they are straight as an arrow. Can't say the same about my 823 on the rear of my V10 after 3 rides. 

I've also now had 2 days at Whistler on my V10 with one of the carbon rims up front (still nervous about the rear for that so stuck with 823 which as I said is wobbly as hell after a few rides). I'm getting closer to believing it will hold up as a rear as well, so if I don't have any failures by the time I finish off the 823 I'm going to grab a DH version for that too. 

The rims feel amazing. There's no question that carbon is the best feeling material for rims and that alone is worth it. The fact that my wheels are still straight and lightweight is a pretty good bonus too.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Jave said:


> I'm still worried about breaking them. Should I be?


Here's my take. you shouldn't worry about carbon any more than aluminum. However, as much as everyone can say that, you will still have it in the back of your mind for a while. My confidence is growing every ride, but 14 rides on the carbon rims and there's still a drop into rocks that I'm not charging like i once did. I know I'll get there eventually, but my point is everyone here can say "don't worry", but to go from reading it to believing it takes a little time.

that said, they are well worth it. Best upgrade I've ever done. If I break a carbon rim I'm replacing it with carbon.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

RTM said:


> that said, they are well worth it. Best upgrade I've ever done. If I break a carbon rim I'm replacing it with carbon.


:thumbsup:


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## Gunnar-man (Mar 21, 2008)

I am on my second set, as I cracked my rear rim last year on a rocky section that I was going too fast through with too low of tire pressure. My fault.

Bought another set and have put about 300km on them and cracked my rear again last weekend on a different trail on a lone pointed rock and wouldn't hold air through the cracks. Had about 30 psi and I think it was a fluke that it cracked the side but nonetheless, pi$$ed me off. (I could also be riding like a hack...who knows) The rock probably woulda dented an aluminum rim.

I have friends who have been riding the 29er versions on their local trails with no issues at all but I am done with ordering anymore of these. 

The cost is what is prohibiting me, as I have to get them built since I don't know how to build a wheel on my own...yet. 

I have ordered a truing stand and will attempt to rebuild some old wheels and then move onto the one last carbon rim i have and see if I can do it.

My take: If you ride on really rocky trails, you are taking a chance. Smoother trails? Have at 'er...probably a long lasting investment.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

30psi in the rear on rocky trails is taking a chance. I'd be at 33or 34 and matching tire width and carcass to the bike and how hard I'm gonna hit stuff. Like you said it would have probably dented an alloy rim. Maybe it could have been straightened out enough to hold air and keep being used, maybe not. Flirting with low air pressure for better traction is a risk that can be controled to some extent by carefully monitoring air pressure and making smart decisions based on rider weight & style, tire, and trail. Sorry to hear you've killed two of these but I can't count the number of alloy rims I've killed (all on the rear of my DH bike). You're making the right moves in learning how to build your own wheels. Once you're good at it a rim can be swapped in the pits in less than an hour.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

*LB DH rims!*

Woohoo! Light-Bicycle DH rims will be ready in 17 days! No idea on weight but they used the dimensions I provided nearly exactly. I've got a pair on order.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> Woohoo! Light-Bicycle DH rims will be ready in 17 days! No idea on weight but they used the dimensions I provided nearly exactly. I've got a pair on order.


SWEET. Let us know how they go!


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## trek551 (Mar 28, 2009)

518 ERD? Wow that would be 18mm deeper than the AM one. I think ERD is : OD 571mm -30 +3 = 544mm.


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## sikocycles (Oct 10, 2005)

Hope they do a 29er rim also


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

trek551 said:


> 518 ERD? Wow that would be 18mm deeper than the AM one. I think ERD is : OD 571mm -30 +3 = 544mm.


Two awesome things about this: Light, stiff spokes and room to maneuver nipples into place so drilling the rim bed isn't necessary. I'll be sending the nipples in through the valve hole and won't need to use rim tape.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

sikocycles said:


> Hope they do a 29er rim also


I expect 27.5" and 29" versions to follow. Since 26" still rules the DH world they're starting with this size.


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## DJ Giggity (Sep 9, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> I'll be sending the nipples in through the valve hole and won't need to use rim tape.


Do you have a trick for that other than being really, really patient?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

DJ Giggity said:


> Do you have a trick for that other than being really, really patient?


Send a long peice of fishing line in through the spoke hole and through the rim till you can see it through the valve hole. Use tweezers to pull it out, put a nipple on, and slide the nipple to the hole.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Woohoo! Light-Bicycle DH rims will be ready in 17 days! No idea on weight but they used the dimensions I provided nearly exactly. I've got a pair on order.


Wow wow wow....I didn't order the original 26" AM set in January because the opening was only 8mm where the nipples would need to come through if I asked for wheels with no holes drilled in order to run tubeless. Judging by the schematic from this new DH wheel though, that open slot through the wheel is now 18.5mm....am I reading this correctly? If that's the case, then getting nipples installed without rim bed holes would be a piece of cake. Please confirm. I also emailed Nancy to verify this.

How did you find out about these DH wheels? I don't see any info about them on their website....


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## scar4me (May 16, 2010)

trek551 said:


> 518 ERD? Wow that would be 18mm deeper than the AM one. I think ERD is : OD 571mm -30 +3 = 544mm.


Only bad thing your missing is the fact you have to count the rim depth twice 

571mm - (2x 30mm) + 6mm = 517mm
And thats pretty good in my book, when allowing a slight increase for the nipplehead to bed in.

Very very tempted to upgrade my current AM rims for some new non-drilled DH ones!

Scar


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^We've been emailing back and forth about DH rims for 6 months. I sent dimensions to them in January and last week they emailed me this CAD drawing that almost exactly matches my request.

The y just sent me weight & price: 450g, $178.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

so they will have beadhooks? I was kinda looking forward to not having them to make the sidewalls stiffer...


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Maybe a Specialized patent? Or gentleman's agreement not to usr that feature since they make Spesh rims.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> Maybe a Specialized patent? Or gentleman's agreement not to usr that feature since they make Spesh rims.


Are you saying LB makes the speshy carbon rims? With certainty or just a guess?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

If they were in fact making rims and other carbon parts for major bike companies (and obviously they are supplying carbon goods to re-sellers who rebrand them), they wouldn't be telling you, otherwise they would already advertise themselves as a supplier of premium bicycle brands.

Or they just don't really care about it that much haha, and I don't either. I like the price, I like the products, I like the service. That's good enough for me.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

David C said:


> If they were in fact making rims and other carbon parts for major bike companies (and obviously they are supplying carbon goods to re-sellers who rebrand them), they wouldn't be telling you, otherwise they would already advertise themselves as a supplier of premium bicycle brands.
> 
> Or they just don't really care about it that much haha, and I don't either. I like the price, I like the products, I like the service. That's good enough for me.


i'm speculating here but Lelandjt may have read this on the wider 29er rim page : 
"*The engineers are from Specialized OEM factory, the rim design is similar to specialized 29er MTB rims." 
and assumed that meant they were the manufacturer and supplier for S. or he may have actual knowledge...

there is no reference to S on any of the other rim's webpages.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

raschaa said:


> so they will have beadhooks? I was kinda looking forward to not having them to make the sidewalls stiffer...


looks like they were originally going hookless and enough people chimed in and LB changed it:

new-26er-rim-specially-designed-for-all-mountain-and-downhill-bikes Light-Bicycle


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

bad andy said:


> Are you saying LB makes the speshy carbon rims? With certainty or just a guess?


I read it on a forum. So consider it an unverified forum-fact.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

literally said:


> looks like they were originally going hookless and enough people chimed in and LB changed it:
> 
> new-26er-rim-specially-designed-for-all-mountain-and-downhill-bikes Light-Bicycle


That sucks. The arguements for a hookless design sound solid and the comments against it seem to not understand how a tire fits on a tubeless rim. Motorcycles and cars don't have hooks. A thick, indestructable sidewall that provides a wide, flat surface for the tire to crush against on impact would be perfect.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

A Rep at the local flagship Specialized store confirmed LB makes some Roval rims...


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> That sucks. The arguements for a hookless design sound solid and the comments against it seem to not understand how a tire fits on a tubeless rim. Motorcycles and cars don't have hooks. A thick, indestructable sidewall that provides a wide, flat surface for the tire to crush against on impact would be perfect.


:thumbsup: well that's more or less what I told "Nancy"...


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> A Rep at the local flagship Specialized store confirmed LB makes some Roval rims...


Oh, that might be the real reason LB is not doing the hookless rim. Specialized's rep for biotch slapping any company that come close to their design is notorious. Spec would not have a patent leg to stand on, but they could say to LB, "make a hookless rim for the US, and we take our business elsewhere."


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## ttengineer (Jun 7, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> Oh, that might be the real reason LB is not doing the hookless rim. Specialized's rep for biotch slapping any company that come close to their design in notorious. Spec would not have a patent leg to stand on, but they could say to LB, "make a hookless rim for the US, and we take our business elsewhere."


That is very probable, Specialized definitely has that kind of weight to throw around


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Quick update. Just raced the Oregon Enduro Camas race on these rims. 370g front 450g rear laced up 36 spoke, with Bontrager strips. Full DH casing tires, as this was basically a DH course. Raced Cat1 19-39 took 9th place. I did at least 8 practice runs plus 2 full runs race day. NO PROBLEMS rims are still stellar! Rocks were bedded in and everywhere. Blown tires and tubes left and right.

Joe Lawwill's hauling the mail run. He had me by 16 seconds or so on this stage crazy fast. Check out the terrain and speeds.

2013 Camas Enduro stage 6 - YouTube

This video shows the rock garden and full race terrain better.

Video: Oregon Enduro Series - Camas - Pinkbike


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

thuren said:


> Joe Lawwill's hauling the mail run. He had me by 16 seconds or so on this stage crazy fast. Check out the terrain and speeds.
> 
> 2013 Camas Enduro stage 6 - YouTube
> 
> ...


Yeah, that headcam does not do that trail justice...! Those jumps are pretty big and the manmade rock gardens towards the bottom are vicious...! I want to see his run through stage one with the baby heads and shale... That was a rim eating segment for sure.

Nice work racing it! I opted out. Fun trail to ride and push it on, but racing it is a whole nother level. Legit DH track.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

I received this today from Nancy for the new AM DH spec rims.









They will have a 26mm inner diameter which is awesome.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

Mishtar said:


> I received this today from Nancy for the new AM DH spec rims...


this has been shown and has been discussed for a week now...


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

man what a bummer they aren't hookless, just imagine those sidewalls being 3.5mm thick... virtualy indestructable...


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

*Oh Really ?????*



mattsavage said:


> A Rep at the local flagship Specialized store confirmed LB makes some Roval rims...


So this is where rumors turn into facts...Let me explain to you what I know. My company wanted to distribute these rims throughout the USA..until we were met with several problems. We actually sent someone to the "factory" in Xiamen, China to check things out. Here is what we found:

1. The address listed on their website does not exist.

2. Do a Google Search on the mailing label after it arrives in the USA, it is an apartment building.

3. Light Bicycle is NOT listed as a manufacturer with the government of China, however it is listed as a trading company.

4. We tried to get them to ship 200 pairs of rims and the questions they were asking did not make a lot of sense...that was when we realized they did not have an Export License and have never shipped anything in bulk.
If they made anything for Specialized, it would be shipped in more quantities than one pair by EMS.

5. The rep I sent to the factory took photos and you could clearly see they were a small company and cutting the carbon strips with scissors and a large paper cutter.

6. There is a thread in the road bike review, someone has indicated that US Customs is investigating all of these Chines Carbon companies for under invoicing. The IMPORTER is the person responsible for any violations NOT the Exporter. Go on the US Customs website and read it....clear as air. The statute of limitations is five years. If you paid $400 for the rims and it arrived with a value of $50, then you could be charged . How bad is it?? Well put it this way. The thread is approx. 3,000,000 strong. If collectively the orders in total are 1,000, 000 ( road frames, mtn bike frames, rims, etc) and the duty is an additional $30, then the US gov't is being screwed out of $30,000, 000...I think that is enough reason for them to investigate all these Chinese companies.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

YaMon said:


> So this is where rumors turn into facts...Let me explain to you what I know. My company wanted to distribute these rims throughout the USA..until we were met with several problems. We actually sent someone to the "factory" in Xiamen, China to check things out. Here is what we found:
> 
> 1. The address listed on their website does not exist.
> 
> ...


Shhh! You're going to ruin it for all of us 
All we need now is the Gov't to try to recoup their already ill-spent dollars and budget deficit from us simple bike-riding folk who are just trying to get a good value on some carbon products.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

bad andy said:


> Shhh! You're going to ruin it for all of us
> All we need now is the Gov't to try to recoup their already ill-spent dollars and budget deficit from us simple bike-riding folk who are just trying to get a good value on some carbon products.


Dude...US Customs is under the Department of Homeland Security...they probably have a file on you already. Next time you fly, prepare for an orifice check....


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Glad I'm in the UK, looking and stocking up on these rims before it all goes Peter tong!


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

YaMon said:


> Dude...US Customs is under the Department of Homeland Security...they probably have a file on you already. Next time you fly, prepare for an orifice check....


Please don't give them any ideas. Flying is painful enough as it is.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

is US customs stupid enough to calculate due fees just by the attached invoice? in Germany if customs get the impression that the "invoice price" does not correlate with the value of the wares, then you have to show them what price you payed by bringing your proof of payment (paypal/debit card/money transfer - transaction)...

and I wouldn't worry about the thread, HS has scanned and archived all mailing labels anyways


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

I'm thinking to build a LB 26" rear wheel laced with 28 spokes ,it is worth to save some weight over wheel laced 32 spokes ?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Are you pretty light and ride non-agressively? I think the extra spokes aew worth the weight for anything beyond XC racing/riding.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

raschaa said:


> is US customs stupid enough to calculate due fees just by the attached invoice? in Germany if customs get the impression that the "invoice price" does not correlate with the value of the wares, then you have to show them what price you payed by bringing your proof of payment (paypal/debit card/money transfer - transaction)...
> 
> and I wouldn't worry about the thread, HS has scanned and archived all mailing labels anyways


I believe they are that due to the quantity of mail received, it is getting through . Anything under $200 is allowed without any duty. Due to the amount of mail/shipments, these items are getting through and not being flagged. I believe they have now started to notice.......


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

well, then a couple of carbon rims from china are for sure not their biggest problem... they could hire some illegals to check all the <200$ stuff :lol:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

raschaa said:


> well, then a couple of carbon rims from china are for sure not their biggest problem... they could hire some illegals to check all the <200$ stuff :lol:


Actually it could be...lets take a look at some of the numbers...if you add up all the threads on chinese carbon fiber in the road bike and mtb forum it probably comes to over 3,000, 000. If you make the assumption that 1,000,000 have made some sort of purchse and the duty and administration charge comes to $30.00, then you are looking at a shortfall of $30,000,000......I think that is a big enough number to raise a few flags...


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## TANK01 (Oct 16, 2012)

Nancy is ready to take order on the new AM/DH rims, product should be finished within 10 days after placing the order. She is going to send me some pics tomorrow.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

TANK01 said:


> Nancy is ready to take order on the new AM/DH rims, product should be finished within 10 days after placing the order. She is going to send me some pics tomorrow.


Is anyone gonna get the 370g version? I was tempted but played it safe with the 450g cuz these are going on a DH bike.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I just ordered a pair of 650b, 370g, 28 h, but they are going towards a light wheelbuild and just for xc and light trail riding.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

doccoraje said:


> I just ordered a pair of 650b, 370g, 28 h, but they are going towards a light wheelbuild and just for xc and light trail riding.


I was talking about the DH rim. You're talking about the AM 650 rim. I use one of those on the front of a MOjo SL.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Is anyone gonna get the 370g version? I was tempted but played it safe with the 450g cuz these are going on a DH bike.


I just ordered the new 26" DH rims in 3k matte with 32H, 375g versions. Going on my all-mountain rig, not for downhill. Wanted the original 26" wider rims, but the nipple channel wasn't big enough for the nipples to angle in. These new DH rims are perfect and will make wheelbuilding crazy easy. Pretty excited for them to come in in a couple weeks.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

mattsavage said:


> A Rep at the local flagship Specialized store confirmed LB makes some Roval rims...


Was curious about this, so I asked the guy who's in charge at Roval, aka Joe the Roval Mtb wheel product manager, and here's the outcome :

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=10555794



> Originally Posted by Roval Joe
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guessed you guys might be interested into more details on this like I was.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> ... Wanted the original 26" wider rims, but the nipple channel wasn't big enough for the nipples to angle in. These new DH rims are perfect and will make wheelbuilding crazy easy. .....


could you explain what you mean. ie. the nipples angle in bit.

are you getting them to not drill the spoke holes all the way through, so you don't have nipple holes that you have to seal up with rim tape? ie. use those magnet and/or wire techniques to feed nipples in through the valve hole and maneuver them around the rim into position.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

sclyde2 said:


> could you explain what you mean. ie. the nipples angle in bit.
> 
> are you getting them to not drill the spoke holes all the way through, so you don't have nipple holes that you have to seal up with rim tape? ie. use those magnet and/or wire techniques to feed nipples in through the valve hole and maneuver them around the rim into position.


Yep. You got it. The original 26" AM rims only had an 8mm nipple channel. I want to run a true tubeless and not deal with tape or strips or anything, so I was looking to buy with no rim bed holes. Since most nipples are around 12mm long and wouldnt work in an 8mm channel, I didn't purchase a set back in Jan. These new 17.7mm rim channels are perfect for an AM rig that's not for DH at 375g. Pretty excited to build my very first set of carbon wheels.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

My 450g set with un-drilled rim beds should be here by Friday. I've never built a rim like that but have a pretty good idea how to do it. We'll stay in touch.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Are these new 26" AM wheels still $150ea like the ones on their site or are they more?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

If you're talking about the new "wider DH rim" they are $170 or $178, 370g or 450g. The "wide AM rim" is still $150 for 350g, $160 for 380g & 400g.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

kan3 said:


> Are these new 26" AM wheels still $150ea like the ones on their site or are they more?


Their newest DH rims aren't on their site at all yet. I'd assume they won't post up until they are truly ready for production within the next week or so.


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## literally (Apr 14, 2013)

chrisingrassia said:


> Their newest DH rims aren't on their site at all yet. I'd assume they won't post up until they are truly ready for production within the next week or so.


Lelandjt has them already. The prices he listed above are correct.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

literally said:


> Lelandjt has them already. The prices he listed above are correct.


I didn't dispute anything Leland said :/ ....???

If you wanna buy them, you gotta email Nancy. She's the man!


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> My 450g set with un-drilled rim beds should be here by Friday. I've never built a rim like that but have a pretty good idea how to do it. We'll stay in touch.


Yeah. Make sure you keep us updated on how this goes. I had a set of Red Metal Zero wheels that came with a special super strong rare earth magnet that screws into the nipple and another that you use outside the rim to move the nipple around to where you need it. Even so, it was not an easy task.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

TigWorld said:


> Yeah. Make sure you keep us updated on how this goes. I had a set of Red Metal Zero wheels that came with a special super strong rare earth magnet that screws into the nipple and another that you use outside the rim to move the nipple around to where you need it. Even so, it was not an easy task.


Just take a weighted line and use gravity to let it roll inside the rim from the spoke hole to the valve stem hole. Then use a hook rod or long nose pliers to pull the line out from the valve stem hole. Attach nipple to line and pull back.

I would suggest to start with the ones dieter away from the valve hole, so you don't get stuck on the nipples already there.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^That's what I'm gonna do using thick fishing line. I'd love to build these now but a miss-communication at the shop resulted in the spoke order being delayed so I can't start till Monday. Pushing to do well at Nationals on Angel Fire's rocks would have been a good test! BTW, they both weigh exactly 430g.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

in the relation to those undrilled rim beds, i'm interested mainly if how/if tyres seal up without any rim strip or tape. has anyone ever sealed up a tyre on a light bicycle rim without rim tape or strip?

i suspect it might actually work better with tighter fitting tyres (such as schwalbes), but dunno how the looser brands will fare.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

David C said:


> Just take a weighted line and use gravity to let it roll inside the rim from the spoke hole to the valve stem hole. Then use a hook rod or long nose pliers to pull the line out from the valve stem hole. Attach nipple to line and pull back.
> 
> I would suggest to start with the ones dieter away from the valve hole, so you don't get stuck on the nipples already there.


Have you actually done this before? I think you're going to have major headaches between having fishing line through the centre of a nipple that you somehow need to remove and then prevent the nipple from going back into the rim while putting it on the spoke. This is difficult enough when you have access through the rim bed.

I look forward to hearing what actual approach ends up working. I'd probably cut down a spoke, form a loop on the end, tie the fishing line to that and thread that ultra-short cut down spoke onto the nipple. Also, to lace each spoke in sequence around the rim is much more difficult than doing it the normal way where you get least interference from other spokes.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

sclyde2 said:


> in the relation to those undrilled rim beds, i'm interested mainly if how/if tyres seal up without any rim strip or tape. has anyone ever sealed up a tyre on a light bicycle rim without rim tape or strip?
> 
> i suspect it might actually work better with tighter fitting tyres (such as schwalbes), but dunno how the looser brands will fare.


Doing this requires a tall enough rim cavity to orient the nipples. The DH rim is LB's first mtn rim that has enough room. However, many aero road rims have been done this way and run tubeless withot tape. Since I started always removing the valve core and using a 100+psi large volume compressor it's aleays been easy to seat tires so I'm not worried about how tight the fit is without tape.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> ^That's what I'm gonna do using thick fishing line. I'd love to build these now but a miss-communication at the shop resulted in the spoke order being delayed so I can't start till Monday. Pushing to do well at Nationals on Angel Fire's rocks would have been a good test! BTW, they both weigh exactly 430g.





TigWorld said:


> Have you actually done this before? I think you're going to have major headaches between having fishing line through the centre of a nipple that you somehow need to remove and then prevent the nipple from going back into the rim while putting it on the spoke. This is difficult enough when you have access through the rim bed.
> 
> I look forward to hearing what actual approach ends up working. I'd probably cut down a spoke, form a loop on the end, tie the fishing line to that and thread that ultra-short cut down spoke onto the nipple. Also, to lace each spoke in sequence around the rim is much more difficult than doing it the normal way where you get least interference from other spokes.


I plan to use dental floss. Just make a knot big enough at one end to prevent the nipple from falling off.


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

I need some help to building a wheel in a LB 26" new DH rim,how spoke lenght can I use to a HOPE PRO2 EVO rear hub?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

mentawais said:


> I need some help to building a wheel in a LB 26" new DH rim,how spoke lenght can I use to a HOPE PRO2 EVO rear hub?


Measure your ERD and plug it and the hub specs into a spoke calculator.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

mentawais said:


> I need some help to building a wheel in a LB 26" new DH rim,how spoke lenght can I use to a HOPE PRO2 EVO rear hub?


Did you check out the wheelbuilding thread yet? It has lots of helpful links to doing manual assessments. Don't guess, because each side of each wheel will likely be different.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

mentawais said:


> I need some help to building a wheel in a LB 26" new DH rim,how spoke lenght can I use to a HOPE PRO2 EVO rear hub?


Two words, Roger Musson.

Check the free spoke calculator on his site: http://www.wheelpro.co.uk/spokecalc/

But definitely buy the book. It is a perfectly written step by step guide. All you will ever need.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

chrisingrassia said:


> Did you check out the wheelbuilding thread yet? It has lots of helpful links to doing manual assessments. Don't guess, because each side of each wheel will likely be different.


Excellent advice. Wait for the rim to arrive and measure it. Then order the spokes.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> I plan to use dental floss. Just make a knot big enough at one end to prevent the nipple from falling off.


Will you then end up with a rim cavity full of the dental floss knots that you have to cut off?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

TigWorld said:


> Will you then end up with a rim cavity full of the dental floss knots that you have to cut off?


Not at all. The knot goes where the spoke will screw in. Hold the un-tied end in hand, drop nipple in valve hole. Shake around to get nipple to come through nipple hole. Hold the nipple with finger, pull the floss out and screw in a spoke to hold it there until you start lacing up the hub one by one. Can re-use the same piece of floss for all nipples. Winner winner chicken dinner!!



RTM said:


> Excellent advice. Wait for the rim to arrive and measure it. Then order the spokes.


Absolutely. They're from China, so don't trust their "standard" specs from the CAD drawing. Pretty certain each wheel will be different.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I'm considering ordering only the rims and hubset and building them up myself with DT flat spokes and brass nipples. However I got a limited time window to order the spokes, maybe 3 weeks from now, and I'd like to know if the ERD can be off by 1-2mm and simply use longer or shorter nipples to make up for the spokes length ?

Also, regarding the building of carbon wheels, can the rim actually flex to be made true like alloy rims do or are you pretty much stuck with how true the rim is out of the box ?

Last question, I heard that the spokes holes were drilled straight and not at an angle. That means it doesn't matter which spokes holes are on either drive or non-drive side ? And is the rim drilled for presta or schreader ?


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

compensating spoke length via nipple length is a no-go (imho)...
the rims true up very nicely and will "give", just not like an alloy rim. mine were nice out of the box and ended up at under +/- 0,2mm with 24 spokes.

yepp, they're drilled straight with no offset. thats why I laced mine up with straight-pull spokes/hubs because they enter at almost a right angle. drilled for presta.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

You can always ask them to drill at an angle. If your spokes are too long, it's ok aslong as you have enough thread to work with and they don't hit the inside of the rim or penetrate the rim tape.


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## peterque (Sep 27, 2012)

This is Peter from Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd

We have M623C carbon 26er tubeless rims available, the weight is about 320g/piece with good quality, we can drill rims with any holes you want. We use titanium wire to strength the rims.

IP-M623C carbon fiber super light MTB 26er rims, carbon mtb 26er clincher rims-Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.

Email: [email protected]
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Website: Xiamen Iplay Sporting Goods Co.,Ltd.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Too narrow, these rims need to be much wider.


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## peterque (Sep 27, 2012)

ruscle said:


> Too narrow, these rims need to be much wider.


They are similar to XC rims, can be assembled with both narrow and wide tires. They are stiff and the weight is super light. If it is wider then the weight must be heavier. Anyway many guys used and felt great with them.

I just want to let more guys know our rims.

Thanks a lot!


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I'm waiting on a quote from Nancy on the rims only plus hubs to decide if I'm either getting a full wheelset or to build myself.



ruscle said:


> You can always ask them to drill at an angle.


You think they would do it ? If so, why haven't they be doing it already ? I'll ask them, good idea 

Also, am I the only one to feel like they are ripping us off with the shipping charges ? I know it's not free to ship a wheelset across the planet, but to start at $29 for the first 500gr and then only $7 more for 500g extra doesn't make much sense to me. Even more when the box weights 1kg and the rim only 400g... It's like paying $36 to get a cardboard box shipped to you and then $14 for two rims inside it.

My only guess is that they either make their money on theses "extra" fees so they can keep their product prices low (which is good for us) or they are trying to get every single penny they can out of this (which we can't really blame them, they don't force us to buy their stuff, they are just a business).

Regarding the new manufacturing process for the rims, I noticed that only the new DH rims are included for their 26" product line, while the 29" and 650b are all going with the new process. I'm not very aware of their sales numbers, but my guess would be they are selling much more of the 29" and 650b rims then the wider AM 26" rims, and I also see their prices going up every other season. I remember at first their normal XC 26" rim was only $135, now $145. Then the new DH rim is $178. If they hit the $200 mark, I'd like to actually see some improvements regarding manufacturing process, like standard angled drilled spoke holes or re-enforced spokes holes eyelets, even molded ones (pretty much everyone uses 32h on DH wheels, no ?) maybe constant ERD specs that you can trust too.

I remembered one guy here saying his company went over there in China trying to import and distribute these rims in the US, but had issues with LB. I would be curious to see if a company selling from the US could offer sub-$700 carbon wheelsets over the counter before Roval does a value carbon wheelset too.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

I do believe their shipping costs are a bit high. They do go EMS apparently which is a bit pricey to get something in 4 days from China. Still far cheaper than paying absurd tax levels on a $1000 set. I'll be interested to see how the DH rims hold up.

One thing I have noticed thus far is how responsive Nancy/Caroline were before placing my order, but now that I've placed it they don't answer my emails (particularly about angled drilling). Just an observation. Looking fwd to playing with these wheels tho.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Shipping cost includes customs tax.


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## lloydo (Nov 8, 2010)

they should do a 650b rim in the new dh rim profile, or deeper than the current anyway


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

peterque said:


> They are similar to XC rims, can be assembled with both narrow and wide tires. They are stiff and the weight is super light. If it is wider then the weight must be heavier. Anyway many guys used and felt great with them.
> 
> I just want to let more guys know our rims.
> 
> Thanks a lot!


I'd be fine with more weight and a wider rim. 23 mm internal width would be my desired width.

Tubeless ready profile is a must also.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> Shipping cost includes customs tax.


Let me be absolutely clear about this....I have done much research on this. The shipping DOES NOT include US Customs Tax...otherwise known as duty. What they are doing is under invoicing without your permission. If they place a value under $200, it will not raise any flags and there is no duty. However, if Customs finds out....you will be in a whole heap of trouble because the penalties are very high.....You will basically have to leave the rims with them because it will cost too much to get them back....Check the US Customs website.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

YaMon said:


> Let me be absolutely clear about this....I have done much research on this. The shipping DOES NOT include US Customs Tax...otherwise known as duty. What they are doing is under invoicing without your permission. If they place a value under $200, it will not raise any flags and there is no duty. However, if Customs finds out....you will be in a whole heap of trouble because the penalties are very high.....You will basically have to leave the rims with them because it will cost too much to get them back....Check the US Customs website.


Calm down =). We have never instructed LB to do anything re: customs paperwork. At least I never have. Never told them to undervalue, or do "gift" stuff. LB places the value of their products on their paperwork, I do not. Regardless, I'm not concerned. Even though the NSA is reading this thread as their top priority.

Nancy did respond saying they don't drill at an angle usually. I'd be hesitant to ask for them to do so unless they know what they're doing. Especially with a carbon rim.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Calm down =). We have never instructed LB to do anything re: customs paperwork. At least I never have. Never told them to undervalue, or do "gift" stuff. LB places the value of their products on their paperwork, I do not. Regardless, I'm not concerned. Even though the NSA is reading this thread as their top priority.
> 
> Nancy did respond saying they don't drill at an angle usually. I'd be hesitant to ask for them to do so unless they know what they're doing. Especially with a carbon rim.


But my friend...that is the exact point I have been trying to make. You don't ask them to do it and yet they do. If you would take the time and effort to check out the US Customs website you will clearly see that they say that it is not the Exporters responsibility, the Importer will ALWAYS be responsible and charged. Their reasoning for this is that you know what you paid for it and clearly see what value is being placed on the commodity. You are responsible to contact US Customs to inform them....You and everyone will be concerned when your shipment get's confiscated and you lose rims. According to a Road Bike Review thread...they already are aware and monitoring it....


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

I remembered one guy here saying his company went over there in China trying to import and distribute these rims in the US, but had issues with LB. I would be curious to see if a company selling from the US could offer sub-$700 carbon wheelsets over the counter before Roval does a value carbon wheelset too.[/QUOTE]

I can answer this because it was my company.....Yes, it can be done....However....

It is going to cost you close to $100K for the first shipment. That is the only way to make the numbers work. You will be dealing with a company that has never exported in quantity and does not hold an Export Licence. You will also be dealing with a company that has posted an address on their website that does not exist. Those of you that have ordered from them and still have the mailing address label...do a Google earth search and it will show an apartment building. If they are taking so long to produce one set of carbon rims for you, how long are they going to take to manufacture 400 pairs for your first shipment ?? What will the quality be because they are pushing them out the door as fast as possible?? What happens to their web based customers?? As their US distributor, what happens if anything goes wrong and there is a lawsuit ?? You can't even find them and they are a trading company, not the manufacturer....Good Luck.....


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> Also, am I the only one to feel like they are ripping us off with the shipping charges ? I know it's not free to ship a wheelset across the planet, but to start at $29 for the first 500gr and then only $7 more for 500g extra doesn't make much sense to me. Even more when the box weights 1kg and the rim only 400g... It's like paying $36 to get a cardboard box shipped to you and then $14 for two rims inside it.
> .


See, In your own American world where you get free shipping within U.S.A. from the likes of Jenson etc you really lose out on the notion of shipping expenses.

I live in Vancouver BC - 30 minutes north of the border. For me to order something from Jenson, like a seat collar for example, they ding me $17 shipping.

So Boo Hoo if light bicycles charges $20 so ship a set of wheels across the bloody ocean. not an unreasonable cost at all.

That being said, Chain Reaction ships globally free (over X amount of dollars of course).


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

chrisingrassia said:


> I plan to use dental floss. Just make a knot big enough at one end to prevent the nipple from falling off.


Spokes won't get here till tomorrow but I wanted to get the nipples in tonight. Fishing line was being too flexy so tried shift cable and it worked perfectly. The whole process went quicker than I expected and I threaded some spare spokes into the nipples to keep them in place till final lacing. The only hitch was there were still a couple pieces of the bladder in one rim that had to be pulled out before the nipple could slide into place. You definitely want a narrow pair of tweezers that can reach through a nipple hole if you have to pull any bladder bits out.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

006_007 said:


> See, In your own American world where you get free shipping within U.S.A. from the likes of Jenson etc you really lose out on the notion of shipping expenses.
> 
> I live in Vancouver BC - 30 minutes north of the border. For me to order something from Jenson, like a seat collar for example, they ding me $17 shipping.
> 
> ...


Oh, I live in Montreal, QC, but spending my summer in the USA at the beach. Most of my stuff is delivered here or to a friend in VT. Since I work at a bike shop while in the US, I get good deals right from the distributor, but you pay premium shipping every time.

Was I was trying to explain is with their shipping table rate, you pay more shipping for the packaging than you do for the product itself. And why does it starts at $29 for the first 500g while any extra 500g is only $7 more ?? Anyway, not much you can do about it.

Nancy just told me they only have silver brass nipples, no black or other colors. I'll ask her if there's a way to get black brass nipples for my wheelers, otherwise I'll get it build with black and gold alloy nipples and perhaps re-lace them myself with my selection of brass nipples. I've heard many things about galvanic corrosion with the alloy nipples so that why I wanted to get all brass, since I live in mostly wet and humid environment and ride winter too. Perhaps I can ride them with the alloy until it starts to show some corrosion sign ? Maybe it won't corrode at all and all be good ?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> Oh, I live in Montreal, QC, but spending my summer in the USA at the beach. Most of my stuff is delivered here or to a friend in VT. Since I work at a bike shop while in the US, I get good deals right from the distributor, but you pay premium shipping every time.
> 
> Was I was trying to explain is with their shipping table rate, you pay more shipping for the packaging than you do for the product itself. And why does it starts at $29 for the first 500g while any extra 500g is only $7 more ?? Anyway, not much you can do about it.
> 
> Nancy just told me they only have silver brass nipples, no black or other colors. I'll ask her if there's a way to get black brass nipples for my wheelers, otherwise I'll get it build with black and gold alloy nipples and perhaps re-lace them myself with my selection of brass nipples. I've heard many things about galvanic corrosion with the alloy nipples so that why I wanted to get all brass, since I live in mostly wet and humid environment and ride winter too. Perhaps I can ride them with the alloy until it starts to show some corrosion sign ? Maybe it won't corrode at all and all be good ?


I hear you with the galvanic corrosion concerns - I am 99.9% sure I would insist on brass nipples just to be on the safe side. Unless you are willing to frequently inspect / replace at the first signs of problems.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well I'll most likely get about 30 rides on these over the next year, and nothing really muddy or wet, and I keep my stuff clean. I found some gold brass nipples on eBay, not too expensive, so I know I can always re-built them myself.

Someone mentioned in the Enve corrosion thread that hard anodized alloy nipples could perform as well as the brass ones, but that no extensive testing have been done yet on these. And also some marine grease or specially made stuff for galvanic corrosion exists and have been mentioned too.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Spokes won't get here till tomorrow but I wanted to get the nipples in tonight. Fishing line was being too flexy so tried shift cable and it worked perfectly. The whole process went quicker than I expected and I threaded some spare spokes into the nipples to keep them in place till final lacing. The only hitch was there were still a couple pieces of the bladder in one rim that had to be pulled out before the nipple could slide into place. You definitely want a narrow pair of tweezers that can reach through a nipple hole if you have to pull any bladder bits out.


Mind if I ask what size/type nipples you went with? I'm assuming a good quality 12mm brass nipple would suffice for a carbon rim.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

chrisingrassia said:


> Mind if I ask what size/type nipples you went with? I'm assuming a good quality 12mm brass nipple would suffice for a carbon rim.


DT Swiss 12mm alloy nipples. The anodizing prevents corrosion. The problem nipples in Enve builds weren't anodized. The wheelset came to 1600g + 16g for valves, no tape needed. That's with the heavier build DH rim and DH hubs. Racing them this weekend.


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## leichtreiter (Apr 22, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> ...alloy nipples. The anodizing prevents corrosion. The problem nipples in Enve builds weren't anodized...


I am not a wheel builder nor did I ever lace carbon rims, so, this might be unrepresentative, but on the few wheels I did build myself - all of which with aluminium nipples - you won't find any nipple with a perfectly intact anodised layer where the nipple touches the rim/eyelet. To be honest, I doubt there is any way to keep the anodised layer of the nipple unscratched (in the process of tightening, that is)


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> DT Swiss 12mm alloy nipples. The anodizing prevents corrosion. The problem nipples in Enve builds weren't anodized. The wheelset came to 1600g + 16g for valves, no tape needed. That's with the heavier build DH rim and DH hubs. Racing them this weekend.


Are you certain about that ? Or does it simply "works" most of the time ?


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

I had DT swiss alloy anodised nipples before on a set of wheels, after 1-2 seasons they started to show cracks. Never ever use alloy nipples, always brass imo.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I used alloy nips exclusively for my wheel builds for a decade and had two nips snap where the wrench flats meet the "mushroom". On both those wheels the spokes were borderline too short and ended right where the nipple snapped. Those were the only problems I ever had with alloy. However, I used brass nips for my first LB build for fear of either snapping alloys due to the higher than normal tension I was using or galvanic corrosion I'd heard about. When flipping the bike around to walk uphill I hit the wheel hard on the side, heard a snap, and saw that the threads pulled out of one brass nip so I mentioned this to the DT rep. He said that while brass is stronger, it's softer and more prone to that type of failure. He was confident that if sufficiently long spokes are used so they extend into the nipple's "mushroom" alloys would be plenty strong and problem free. LB uses alloy nips in their build and said they aren't aware of any problems that would necessitate the use of brass. So, based on both of their recommendations I switched back to alloy and none of my LB/alloy builds have had a problem. The spokes I use come with alloy nips so it's a hassle getting brass and they add something like 25g to each wheel so as long as alloy works I'll stick with it. I'll report back if one of the LB wheels I've built with alloys has problems.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Meaning the narrow 19ish mm rims rather than the wide 23mm? Consider that road bike rims meant for 23-25mm wide tires are now 18-19mm wide. There's a clear consensus that tires work better when the rim width gives them a more U rather than bulb shape. 23mm is the narrowest that I'll put on a MTB, even one that will use 2" XC tires.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I been emailing back and forth with Nancy about customizing my wheelset and she came up to me with the new DH rims being a lot stronger because of the new processing and somehow I decided to try something.

I made her an offer for a wheelset with the D881/882 hubs, two DH rims with internal drilling, the spokes and black brass nipples, plus two bottle cages, but not build up, which means I'll be lacing them myself and all they have to do is put a bag of spokes and nipples in the box with the rims and hubs, and for a price just under what they are asking for a complete built wheelset with the DH rims.

I'm happy because that means I won't top-out my budget of $700 for this (after including shipping and paypal fees, I get right on the edge of $700), and also I will be able to customize some spokes before lacing the wheel. I am thinking of having either all spokes or only the group that sits around the valve hole being "plated" with a black chrome finish or some other electro-process, not sure yet what's available and affordable. And then I can get some gold brass nipples to use black on drive side and gold on disc side. If I had the money, I'd get 2-3 spokes per wheel plated gold just for the heck of it haha

From my understanding, it takes about a week or so to get your stuff in the US/Canada once they ship it ? I'm going back home next month, so I'm not sure yet if I can ask them to wait a few weeks before shipping or if I should get them here (USA) right away... I'd rather not have the rims sitting around in my room for a month though.

Someone said something about using some sort of oil as a spoke prep to help everything go smooth when tensioning. Since I'm suppose to go with the internal nipples now, how does oily nipples do when trying to fish them around and hold them tight ?

Thanks for your time guy


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

David C said:


> how does oily nipples do when trying to fish them around and hold them tight ?


That's what she said.


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> The wheelset came to 1600g + 16g for valves, no tape needed. That's with the heavier build DH rim and DH hubs. Racing them this weekend.


Nice! These are the 26mm inner width rims shown above? What is the build list, what kind of hubs? Will you be using tubes, or trying tubeless?


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> I been emailing back and forth with Nancy about customizing my wheelset and she came up to me with the new DH rims being a lot stronger because of the new processing and somehow I decided to try something.
> 
> I made her an offer for a wheelset with the D881/882 hubs, two DH rims with internal drilling, the spokes and black brass nipples, plus two bottle cages, but not build up, which means I'll be lacing them myself and all they have to do is put a bag of spokes and nipples in the box with the rims and hubs, and for a price just under what they are asking for a complete built wheelset with the DH rims.
> 
> ...


That color scheme is going to look amazing. Black and Gold is so classic - I am surprised more of it isnt used.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I'm currently checking to have some spokes plated with black chrome finish too. We shall see 

If it's too expensive for what it is, other option is to do it in-house. I have a blast cabinet and air-brush paint gun, so then I can do a few spokes whatever color I want, even glow-in-the-dark haha. I'll probably do it gold or electric blue. Although purple is pretty cool, but I don't see purple being a good combination with a carbon wave. I'd like to color the group of spokes around the valve hole, so 2-3 spokes per wheel. Blasting, a few coat of paint, then cooking up 15 minutes at 400°F and it's quite durable. I even made a "XTR" crank in gold and pimp purple a while back.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

deoreo said:


> Nice! These are the 26mm inner width rims shown above? What is the build list, what kind of hubs? Will you be using tubes, or trying tubeless?


Yes, the DH width rims in their heavier build, 430g.
Because I ordered them without the rim bed drilled (blind lacing) I'm running tubeless without tape using the newest NoTubes valves.

Hubs Rr: DT240 157mm 278g (lightest durable hub available but $$$)
Frt: Atomlab Pimplite 177g but only $90-100 retail. (Can drop 20g for $100 with Tune hub)
Spokes: DT Aerolite w/alloy nips 132g & 10g per wheel (silly expensive but light)
Wheels: 750g & 850g

My V10 with 2.7" tires and 888 is now 31.5lb. Next week a Fox 40 should get it to 31 even. It accelerates well enough that I've been using it for Enduro and Air DH races that I'd normally use my enduro bike for. Why? Cuz a V10 is a f*cking hoot to ride!


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> Hubs Rr: DT240 157mm 178g (lightest durable hub available!


Are you sure about that weight? I think dt lists the 150x12 at 240g and their weights are pretty accurate.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

That was a typo, it's 278g on my scale. My 135mm 240s hub is 240g.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

A quick estimation based on the component specs for my build show the wheelset at 1 753g final, 764f and 989r.

Using Novatec D881/D882 hubs (211g/436g), 2 DH rims at 385g each, 64 spokes at 4.3g each, 64 brass nipples at 60g total.

Cost of the wheelset with shipping and fees is $670, so pretty decent for a XC to DH ready carbon wheelset (hubs can be converted to any existing axle standard, except 150mm rear).

Lelandjt, curious about the final cost of yours ?


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## deoreo (Aug 26, 2005)

Lelandjt said:


> My V10 with 2.7" tires and 888 is now 31.5lb. Next week a Fox 40 should get it to 31 even. It accelerates well enough that I've been using it for Enduro and Air DH races that I'd normally use my enduro bike for. Why? Cuz a V10 is a f*cking hoot to ride!


Very cool!
Will be interested in hearing how these wheels work for you.
At 1600 or so grams, I like the idea of this wide of a wheel on an enduro bike like my Reign X, let alone a DH bike- Awesome!


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## microbike (Sep 20, 2011)

Hi David, care to share pic too.



David C said:


> A quick estimation based on the component specs for my build show the wheelset at 1 753g final, 764f and 989r.
> 
> Using Novatec D881/D882 hubs (211g/436g), 2 DH rims at 385g each, 64 spokes at 4.3g each, 64 brass nipples at 60g total.
> 
> ...


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

After a day of racing and training runs they're still perfect and the light weight was much appreciated on today's pedally course. I already had the hubs, pay wholesale for parts, and buit them myself but it looks like they'd retail for about $1200+ labor. I wouldn't want to pay someone to do the blind lacing cuz it took 4 hours to build.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I could get the DT 240 wholesale too, but even there that's just an awful lot of money for my budget. Same for the Aerolite spokes and nipples. A figured that I'll start with something more universal because I don't know yet how my bikes collection will evolve and at some point I will simply build specific wheelset for each of the bikes in a few years.

Sorry, no pics for now, they should start manufacturing my rims this week.

Btw, what term did you used with Nancy when talking about the inside drilling for these rims to make sure they were not gonna be messed up on the drilling specifications ? I told her to drill only from the inside, not trough the rim bed. I'm still concerned there could be a misunderstanding with having the blind lacing drilling setup just like yours and that I get a bad surprise when I open the box.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

That's what I said, "Don't drill the rim bed." They've made road rims this way for a while.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Got my DH rims on Friday. Both come in at 33 x 30. Haven't measured ERD yet (I don't have any spokes laying around, so I'll need to figure out another way). 

Good quality work IMHO. Fit and finish are very nice. I took some pics, but I don't use site hosts so I can't post them up, sorry (if you PM me and send me your email address I can send them out that way). I'm quite happy with them thus far, and quite anxious to get my measurements done so I can start ordering spokes and nipples and get them built up. 

@above: I also have no holes drilled on rim bed. That's all you gotta say, "don't drill holes on the rim bed, only the nipple holes."


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks guys. How long was the delivery time ? Under 10 days once shipped to the USA ?

And btw, you can post the pics on the forum server, just go to "attach images" in the full post editing interface.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> Thanks guys. How long was the delivery time ? Under 10 days once shipped to the USA ?


It took only 9 days for my 650b's to get all the way from Guanzhou to Mex, fast enough for me! So, my guess is that it will take less to get to the States.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I'm just hopping it won't get stuck at the customs, that would stink since I might not be there in a month haha

Now I'm getting excited I'm finally gonna them in only a few days, I've been waiting over a year for this wheelset and it's thrilling to see it all come together 

33mm wide carbon rims on a XC bike is probably something that never has been done so far too. Looking forward to running them this winter too with very low pressure.


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## Goohead (Apr 27, 2011)

has anyone gotten the new wider spec rims in 35mm wide in the heavier reinforced version? or has these not been produced yet and just being preordered?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yes, 430g.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Goohead said:


> has anyone gotten the new wider spec rims in 35mm wide in the heavier reinforced version? or has these not been produced yet and just being preordered?


They are not making the 35mm version. That was their original intention when they announced on the site to make a DH rim, but overwhelming response was to make a 33x30, so that's what they put into production. At least that's my understanding....


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> That's what I said, "Don't drill the rim bed." They've made road rims this way for a while.


I really don't mind rim tape for tubeless. Is there any other reason not to drill the rim bed? Would it be stronger?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

ziscwg said:


> I really don't mind rim tape for tubeless. Is there any other reason not to drill the rim bed? Would it be stronger?


Yes, would keep the overall tensile strength. Cutting carbon fiber and wanting it to stay strong are kind of antithetical.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

ziscwg said:


> I really don't mind rim tape for tubeless. Is there any other reason not to drill the rim bed?


I don't mind rim tape but I've seen it leak so eliminating the need for it removes a potential failure point for tubeless. Not using tape saves either 7g or 20g depending if you use NoTubes or Gorilla.

It's probably not worth paying someone to spend hours putting the nipples in but I didn't mind doing it one night over beers, bowls, and a Workaholics marathon.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Are 14mm nipples gonna work with the new DH rims for blind lacing ? Thats all they have in black brass and I'd like to know if I need to order some 12mm ones from somewhere else instead.

Thanks


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

They probably fit but it's gonna make it a little harder to flip the nipple up and have it slide down into the hole. I used shift cable because it has a little more stiffness than fishing line for pushing around. However, that makes it form a bend above the nipple as you're flipping it and that bend will bump into the rim bed. Maybe enough to make it difficult to get the nipple to fall through, maybe not. Regardless, 14mm brass nips are gonna be heavy.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks, I think I'll end up ordering 12mm ones too, probably DT.

I got the invoice this morning, have to wait till lunch time when I'm back from work to pay. I'm pretty excited about this and I have to say Nancy did a very nice job on the invoice, everything look perfect, down to name of the guy who's gonna mold the carbon and 3 of his cousins 

I hope it stays that way. Those rims are gonna be huge, I can't imagine how stiff the wheel will be with 30mm of rim height. You guys are lucky to be already riding these haha


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## Goohead (Apr 27, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> They are not making the 35mm version. That was their original intention when they announced on the site to make a DH rim, but overwhelming response was to make a 33x30, so that's what they put into production. At least that's my understanding....


I see, are they shipping yet? And do they require blind lacing

Sent from my C6606 using Tapatalk 2


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

David C said:


> Are 14mm nipples gonna work with the new DH rims for blind lacing ? Thats all they have in black brass and I'd like to know if I need to order some 12mm ones from somewhere else instead.
> 
> Thanks


You're gonna have a hell of a time getting 14mm nipples down each hole. Make your life easy and stick with 12mm.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> You're gonna have a hell of a time getting 14mm nipples down each hole. Make your life easy and stick with 12mm.


Yeah, I'm gonna place an order for black and gold brass nipples tomorrow, all 12mm. I'll simply have a spare bag of 72 14mm black brass nipples for another build. They charged me about $1.65 per spoke for the Pillar PSR X-TRA 1420 black spokes, so $118 total. Not bad considering the best online price I've seen for these was $16-$18 for a set of 8 spokes. Then $0.03 each nipple. Overall i'd say I had quite a fair deal on these wheels for money vs weight vs bling factor. The hubset is almost 700g, so that's why I get heavier than Lelandjt, but rims are lighter by 40-50g each. At some point you can't really get any better than this without topping out the budget.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

David C said:


> You guys are lucky to be already riding these haha


I've already raced them, twice. 2nd and 5th in Pro DH races at Winter Park


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## TANK01 (Oct 16, 2012)

Need to see some pics.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thats right, we need some pics ! I just spent a few $$$ on carbon rims I never saw at all except for the profile diagram drawing !

Rims should be molded and drilled in less than 24 hours now.

Lelandjt, perhaps you could ask LB for a sponsorship and get pro deals on their wheels if you're pretty good at racing


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## Kmb2erl3dn (Aug 14, 2013)

Are all the rims pretty much for xc if not can someone point me in the right direction


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Kmb2erl3dn said:


> Are all the rims pretty much for xc?


Definitely not just for XC. I've been racing Pro Enduro for 8 months on a set of their AM rims (including a top 30 at a World Enduro round) and Pro DH for 1 week on the DH width rims
Here's my DH wheelset:


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> Definitely not just for XC. I've been racing Pro Enduro for 8 months on a set of their AM rims (including a top 30 at a World Enduro round) and Pro DH for 1 week on the DH width rims
> Here's my DH wheelset:


Man I can't wait until they make those in 275


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## Goohead (Apr 27, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> Definitely not just for XC. I've been racing Pro Enduro for 8 months on a set of their AM rims (including a top 30 at a World Enduro round) and Pro DH for 1 week on the DH width rims
> Here's my DH wheelset:


Have you tried running tubeless on these?

Sent from my C6606 using Tapatalk 2


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yes, always tubeless.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well I just ordered the only 12mm gold brass nipples available on the whole Internet that are actually color-coated, not painted, at $17 for 75pcs. And it's gonna take a freaking month or more to get them delivered from Taiwan, so not before mid-September. Meanwhile I'll get some black ones, 12mm at wholesale from my bike shop job. Little bummer as I won't be able to get this wheelset on the bike till I get the gold nipples, but at least I'll get to put it together with the black nipples meanwhile to double-check the spoke lengths they sent me and if all the rims are alright and no issue.


Who else has found 12mm gold brass nipples, 14g, for their built here ?


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

David C said:


> ...Who else has found 12mm gold brass nipples, 14g, for their built here ?


There's very little demand for coloured brass nips. I haven't built a wheelset with brass nips in over 14 years. People that want the bling factor will go for alu anodized and you get the weight savings as a bonus. If the spokes engage the nipple heads properly (ie. you've got the spoke length calcs right) then an alu nipple will be stronger than any spoke you use. Being anodized you should not have any corrosion issues.

Personally, I always go for plain alu nipples. They sometimes come with the spokes or I buy the dt swiss 12mm versions in boxes of 100. Colour is not performance enhancing.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Got my DH rims on Friday. Both come in at 33 x 30. Haven't measured ERD yet (I don't have any spokes laying around, so I'll need to figure out another way).
> 
> Good quality work IMHO. Fit and finish are very nice. I took some pics, but I don't use site hosts so I can't post them up, sorry (if you PM me and send me your email address I can send them out that way). I'm quite happy with them thus far, and quite anxious to get my measurements done so I can start ordering spokes and nipples and get them built up.
> 
> @above: I also have no holes drilled on rim bed. That's all you gotta say, "don't drill holes on the rim bed, only the nipple holes."


So I just ordered a pair w/o the holes in the bed and was just thinking how do you do the nipples? Is it a special type of nipple that expands or something? I saw that you needed 12mm nipples but how do you get them in the rim?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

TigWorld said:


> Colour is not performance enhancing.


False.

Red is faster.

/scienced


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Just curious for those of you using these new DH rims. Any experience with various tires setting up tubeless? What is working well? Are there tires that are not working well?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^The rims have a proper channel and shoulder profile so they should work well tubeless with any tire. I've been using 2.7" Minions. Inflation was near instant with the valve core removed using a compressor.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Thanks, I only ask as some tires can be "looser" than others. IMHO, achieving a good tubeless setup can vary, and require sometimes multiple rolls of tape, or rim strips to get a good seal. Just trying to get an idea of what tires work without adding a bunch of **** to the rim.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

TigWorld said:


> There's very little demand for coloured brass nips. I haven't built a wheelset with brass nips in over 14 years. People that want the bling factor will go for alu anodized and you get the weight savings as a bonus. If the spokes engage the nipple heads properly (ie. you've got the spoke length calcs right) then an alu nipple will be stronger than any spoke you use. Being anodized you should not have any corrosion issues.
> 
> Personally, I always go for plain alu nipples. They sometimes come with the spokes or I buy the dt swiss 12mm versions in boxes of 100. Colour is not performance enhancing.


I would have gone with alloy ones if it wasn't for the fact I live in a very wet and corrosion enhancing environment and will also ride these during winter, and while I have zero experience yet with major carbon parts like these rims, I decided to stay safe and use brass nipples all around because of the corrosion chance. Yes it's gonna be a bit heavier, but I'm no racer or strava junky and honestly I won't notice the difference, climbing will still suck no matter what. Plus gold and black is very classy and I like the fact that I won't have to worry about any corrosion or axle compatibility forever with these.

How many carbon rims have you built yet with the alloy nipples ?


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> How many carbon rims have you built yet with the alloy nipples ?


Also for how long and what brand? (nippples and rims)


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

mestapho said:


> False.
> 
> Red is faster.
> 
> /scienced


This^^^

And black is invisible.


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> ^The rims have a proper channel and shoulder profile so they should work well tubeless with any tire. I've been using 2.7" Minions. Inflation was near instant with the valve core removed using a compressor.


The profile does look tubeless compatible. I just wish someone would figure out how to do tubeless with a floor pump and not have the brand be Mavic.

I'm not sure if it's Mavics square channel or what, but the I23 and Easton carbons I have done needed a compressor.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

doccoraje said:


> Also for how long and what brand? (nippples and rims)


I've built about 14 wheels using carbon rims and alloy nips. The first one about 10 months ago. Rims are from Light Bicycle and some road rims I got off ebay. Always DT spokes and nips. So far no failures. The first MTN pair I built with brass nips* cuz I was concerned about the very high spoke tension but then the DT & LB reps told me alloy should be fine so I switched back.

*Actually that's the only failure I've experienced. While flipping the bike around to walk uphill I hit the front wheel sideways on the ground. The threads popped out of a brass nipple. DT rep said alloy has harder/stronger threads.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

Lelandjt, the reason I ask is because I'm about to build a light wheelset with LB rims and I'm somehow concerned about the corrosion issues shown with others (Enve).
So, no galvanic corrosion on your builds? Even using the "satanized" alloy nips?
Also, forgive mi for hi-jacking the thread, since this is not about carbon AM rim.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

That's also why I went the brass way for mines. I don't want to find out on my own if galvanic corrosion will happen or not on my rims.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I think there's enough theoretical reason to be afraid of galvanic corrosion but the only examples I've heard of in the real world are the non-anodized nipples used in Enve wheels. I haven't seen or heard of someone having problems using DT nips with Chinese carbon rims. I don't want to bet my life on this advice but after pulling the threads out of a brass nip and having both Light Bicycle and DT tell me to use alloy that's what I'm doing unless a customer insists on brass.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

ten months is hardly enough time to judge whether it is an issue or not. a few of those nipples could be corroding as we speak, but unseen. carbon wheels are pretty new, so we probably don't have a big enough sample size of carbon wheels built with al nipples, that are old enough. i suppose that if the wheel is rebuilt, it would be more apparent too.

one of my wheels (not carbon) is now 9 years old. it has only ever broken one spoke on it, and i don't think i've had anyone look at it (truing/retensioning) for the last 5. maybe i'm a bit light on wheels, or maybe it was just a really good wheelbuilder, or i just get them overbuilt (32 cx-rays on an xc wheel). I can count on one hand how many rims have failed - almost all my wheels exit via a sale (either wheel-only, or on a bike). 

My point is, I personally am used to my wheels lasting a long time - however, sometimes i wish they didn't (harder to justify upgrading). I certainly wouldn't be happy having some corrosion spoil my wheel (unless it is just a simple nipple replace job, not ruining the rim or spoke???) after, say, 3 years of using it. I have a few bikes, and don't use any one bike that much (other than the commuter), so i'd hate for it to be deteriorating while just sitting there.

other people might use the one set of wheels every weekend and/or regularly smash them on rocky downhills, and are used to re-building reasonably often. not me though.

my opinion would be that, until we have more info on the likelihood of anno al nips corroding on carbon rims, be prepared to rebuild your wheels every couple of years, or get brass nipples.

having said all this, i got a dt-swiss carbon wheelset a little while ago. just now, it has crossed my mind that it probably has al nipples in it.


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

I wonder what nips DT, Reynolds and Spesh are using on their carbon wheelsets.
Seems like they use DT hex prolocks alloy and haven't heard of problems with those.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

David C said:


> ...How many carbon rims have you built yet with the alloy nipples ?


A grand total of zero. I haven't built any with brass nipples either.

I can't comment on the galvanic corrosion issue either as I've never seen it first hand, but by now there would have to be many thousands of carbon wheelsets with alu nips (including road ones that are ridden in winter on salted wet roads). Is anyone a member of any roaddie forums where nipple corrosion has come up?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Before I started building Chinese carbon road rims I started following the equivalent of this thread on the RBR forum. No mention of corrosion. I've only seen it mentioned in relation to Enve MTB wheels. Odd since you'd assume Enve uses the same nipples in their road & mtb builds.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

So all you guys with w/o holes in the beds. How in the world do you get the nipples in? Are you fishing them in through the valve hole?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

woodyak said:


> So all you guys with w/o holes in the beds. How in the world do you get the nipples in? Are you fishing them in through the valve hole?


Bravo ! You just figured it out. I didn't answered your previous post about this because it was all discussed only a few posts ago.

You insert them through the valve hole, then how you get them out by the spoke holes is totally up to you.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

David C said:


> Bravo ! You just figured it out. I didn't answered your previous post about this because it was all discussed only a few posts ago.
> 
> You insert them through the valve hole, then how you get them out by the spoke holes is totally up to you.


Ah. I didn't see that discussion. Thanks for verifying. Looks like a 6 beer kind of job.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

woodyak said:


> Ah. I didn't see that discussion. Thanks for verifying. Looks like a 6 beer kind of job.


Just be aware, drinking beer might make it go smoother, but in reality you're probably gonna end up drunk as sh#t from keeping messing up the job and drinking more beers.

I would suggest a good seat, great music and a quiet work environment. The wife may be jealous though if you get drunk playing with nipples for hours, so make sure she gets some lovin' too once you're done


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## ziscwg (May 18, 2007)

David C said:


> Just be aware, drinking beer might make it go smoother, but in reality you're probably gonna end up drunk as sh#t from keeping messing up the job and drinking more beers.
> 
> I would suggest a good seat, great music and a quiet work environment. The wife may be jealous though if you get drunk playing with nipples for hours, so make sure she gets some lovin' too once you're done


Fulcrum brags about using a magnet to get their nips through the valve hole and to the spoke hole.

I like the idea, but what part of their nip is magnetic? I think 4xx series stainless is, but that's kind of expensive.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

ziscwg said:


> Fulcrum brags about using a magnet to get their nips through the valve hole and to the spoke hole.
> 
> I like the idea, but what part of their nip is magnetic? I think 4xx series stainless is, but that's kind of expensive.


They have a little nub that screws in to the nip that is ferrous.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

They use a little magnet that threads into the nipple and you use the bigger magnet to move the package around.

Btw, from an email conversation with John Neugent, owner and founder of Neuvation Wheels, about corrosion issues with alloy nipples and carbon rims, and this is what he had to say when I told him that Enve MTB wheels were the only carbon rims having corrosion issues so far :



> FYI, Enve has recently moved away from alloy nipples to some type of metal. It's not clear if it's brass or titanium. Titanium would fix the problem but be pretty expensive.
> 
> Thanks - John


I think I'm gonna go with alloy nipples at first and see how they do, but still keep all my brass equivalent handy just in case I get bad luck.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Ti nipples might be a good idea. They are not as expensive as you'd think (from memory around $1 a nip). A guy I know imports them into Aust - titanwheeltech titanium nipples. I have not used them personally, but maybe that's the way to go to fight the corrosion issue.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

TigWorld said:


> Ti nipples might be a good idea. They are not as expensive as you'd think (from memory around $1 a nip). A guy I know imports them into Aust - titanwheeltech titanium nipples. I have not used them personally, but maybe that's the way to go to fight the corrosion issue.


He also mentioned that Enve seemed to have been using non-anodized nipples too if I remember. Stainless steel nipples are available too.

What about Pillar new M-Power alloy nipples ? They claim to have made some sort of hard anodized alloy nipples that are stronger than brass, yet light as alloy, and of course would be corrosion resistant ? Only available in silver or black for now though.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

For the first time since I started using carbon rims I hit one hard on a rock. I may have bumped one before but during my race run yesterday while running 28psi in a 2.5" DHF Exo I hit the front rim hard enouh to hear and feel that sickening thud of rim bottoming out against rock. At the bottom I examined it and couldn't even see a mark. This is about the hardest that I ever hit rims so I'm pretty optimistic that carbon will have no problem holding up to my riding. It was a 380g version of LB's AM rim.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well one batch of the new DH rim just got finished, now going under QC. Which means my wheelset should be shipped in the next days and hopefully I will get the booty before just on time for my b-day this September ! Guess you can call it a gift from myself


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Has anyone seen a weight for the 26 wheels built up with sapim CX ray spokes and DT swiss 240 hubs?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

I posted mine previously in this thread with cx-rays, dt240 rear and polyax nipples. I went with an extralite front hub though.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Mishtar said:


> Has anyone seen a weight for the 26 wheels built up with sapim CX ray spokes and DT swiss 240 hubs?


I've built 2 sets with 240s and Aerolite spokes (same as CX-rays). The DH set with 430g rims and 157mm/20mm hubs weighed 1600g. The AM set with 340g rims and 142mm/20mm hubs weighed 1400g.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> I've built 2 sets with 240s and Aerolite spokes (same as CX-rays). The DH set with 430g rims and 157mm/20mm hubs weighed 1600g. The AM set with 340g rims and 142mm/20mm hubs weighed 1400g.


Thank you for the info guys, I am really torn between the new wider rims and a set of the syntace W35's. The W35's will way close to 200grams more but they will be almost $400 cheaper and have a 10 year warranty.

For me to have the carbon ones built up using sapim spokes and dt swiss hubs it is $845 plus the $400 for the rims. Just seems pricey.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Mishtar said:


> Thank you for the info guys, I am really torn between the new wider rims and a set of the syntace W35's. The W35's will way close to 200grams more but they will be almost $400 cheaper and have a 10 year warranty.
> 
> For me to have the carbon ones built up using sapim spokes and dt swiss hubs it is $845 plus the $400 for the rims. Just seems pricey.


That's cuz you're getting really expensive hubs and spokes. Drop down to DT Comp 14/15 butted spokes. There's plenty of way cheaper similar weight front hubs. Use an AmClassic rear hub. Stick with the carbon rims.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> That's cuz you're getting really expensive hubs and spokes. Drop down to DT Comp 14/15 butted spokes. There's plenty of way cheaper similar weight front hubs. Use an AmClassic rear hub. Stick with the carbon rims.


Any recommendation on a front hub that is 110mm by 20mm and around the same weight?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Atomlab Pimplite. $100 175g.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I'm no hub expert, but it seems to me that you're better off with a slightly heavier hub and lighter rims when it comes to acceleration. I like the Hope hubs. They're not expensive and pretty solid. Rear engagement is a bit slow though. Then again, after riding CK, everything else engages slowly.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

That was on the 22nd, almost a full week ago :



> Hello David,
> 
> You will get the tracking number this week, there are quite a few rims almost finished.
> We have to do QC check first.
> ...


Still no updates yet, anyone else waiting on DH rims in the USA ?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well looks like I spoke too fast, this morning at almost noon, I get a mail saying everything is ready and packed, except for the nipples that Nancy got for me and that the packing department can't find now. I should get a tracking number early tomorrow morning, so hopefully when I get up at 4:30 I'll have news from them 

Lelandjt, how's the rims doing ? Did you log a few more podiums in already ?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

The DH rims are still good as new. My DH racing season is over but they'll see a few more resort days. I'm at the Durango Big Mountain Enduro beating on my LB AM wheelsets. They're still perfect as well except for some rock scratches.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Great. Happy to hear that. I also have good news as well, my order is ready to ship and should be here in less than 2 weeks, unless it gets stuck at the US border, which would be a huge bummer because I'm leaving back for Canada in less than 3 weeks. Taking a gambling here on shipping them to my US home.

Should we start a thread for the DH version or is this one took the path of the whole 26" LB rims offering rather than only the AM rims ?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well the whole package is on the plane to New York city airport. Should get here in a few days hopefully.


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

Lelandjt - I am thinking about building up a new wheelset with the 33mm wide downhill rim. Since it appears that you have the most experience with them and LB carbon rims in general, could you answer a few questions for me. First, what method do you use to run tubeless? I currently run my DT Swiss rims tubeless with gorilla tape and stan's valves. Does this setup work on the LB rims, or do you have to run a rim strip system? Also, if you are building a wheelset without nipple holes in the bed, what method do you use to thread the nipples from the valve hole to the lower nipple holes? Do you think the increase in rim strength is worth the increased pain to build the wheelset? I weight 205lbs without gear, do you think the rim is strong enough in the AM build or should I go with the heavier DH rim? Thanks in advance. Dave


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I used Gorilla Tape or NoTubes Yellow Tape and NoTubes or American Classic valves for all the LB AM rims I've built and they've seated up tubeless no problem. Gorilla Tape is 20g, Yellow Tape is 7g. I think Gorilla tape is a little porous as I've seen evidence of sealant leaking through so my vote is for NoTubes Tape. To really make it stick put a tube and tire on after taping and leave it inflated for an hour to press the tape down.
I used a derailleur cable to bring the nipples from the valve hole to their individual holes when I built my DH rims. You stick the cable in the nipple hole, push it to the valve hole, pull it out with tweezers, and slide the nipple down it. This was slow and tedious but now I don't have to tape the rims. I don't think there's a measurable strength increase by going with the un-drilled rim bed.
I can't speculate on the strength of the DH width rim in the 370g build. It does seem almost too light for such a wide rim but if they're making it I guess it works. Perhaps ask this same question to LB and see what the experts say. If you want the piece of mind the 430g version is still really light.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Just ordered a set of the new 33mm wheels and am having a local guy build them for me. He had a couple of questions that maybe someone can answer. 

Is the ERD of 518 listed correct for these? 
What kind of spoke tension are you guys running on these?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Really high spoke tension. Like the most I feel the spokes and nipples can take. I think the ERD is correct but definitely round up on the spoke lengths. My front wheel came to 249mm and I rounded down and used 248s. They were too short so I just rebuilt the wheel with 250s.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Have LB decided not to go for hookless construction on the 33mm DH rims? I looked at the pics on their page, and I think I saw a hook there..

Any confirmations?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

hssp said:


> Have LB decided not to go for hookless construction on the 33mm DH rims? I looked at the pics on their page, and I think I saw a hook there..
> 
> Any confirmations?


The new 26" DH rims at 33mm wide and 30mm deep are clincher rims. They first intended to make them 35mm wide and hookless, but many people chimed in and since they mostly didn't knew any better, they asked for clincher instead of hookless. For myself, I didn't voted on these as I wasn't knowledgeable enough on rim bead to argue with the Internet genius. Since then I've been reading a lot about hookless designs and how tire/rim interface works and I would definitively go for hookless rim any time.

I've been working all summer on bikes with hookless rims and I can tell you there is no need for a clincher hook at all. Plus hookless wall are easier and stronger to manufacture, plus make airing up a tire a snap and will self-center easier.

Nancy told me that 29" hookless rims should be available end of September. I guess I won't be riding hookless for a little while since I'm on 26" and just got the new DH rims $$$.

Btw my stuff should be here soon ! It just arrived at NYC and probably gonna get to my place by Monday.


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## 5power (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm having a hard time getting these LB wheels to seat tubeless and even with a tube.
I've blown up and destroy a racing ralph going over 55 psi. So I got some 2.4 Nics and 2.35 Hans Damp and they still won't seat at 50psi. I tried both tubeless and tubes. I tried with the bonty rim strips, stans tape, and Gorilla tape. I've used soap/water with a air compressor to no luck.

I went back to my stans flow got the tires seated tubeless in less than 5 mins. Does anybody have any advice on tire that would be easy to setup tubeless on these carbon wheels?


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## litany (Nov 25, 2009)

Continental tires work great. The only problem with them is they generally are kind of flobbery (they like to remember their folded up shape but they are very round and true tires after they get mounted) so if you mount them with a tube and let them sit a day you will then be able to mount them tubeless super easily. Floor pump easy, compressor with no soapy water or anything, will air up instantly dry and mount.

Schwable tires are a little too tight for these rims but I got them to work by mounting them to some old DT Swiss rims with tubes to stretch the bead out and then it was much much easier to mount to these rims. Still worse than the contis though.


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## 5power (Jul 26, 2010)

Thank you for the advice will give some conti x king 2.4 a try!! I was thinking about selling them was so frustrated.


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## motochick (Jun 22, 2010)

Another vote for Conti Trail Kings for easy mount.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Just received my DH rims today, so stocked ! Jumped onto the blind lacing for the first rim and at 32h, it's quite time consuming. But I got it done and next step is to lace the hub to the nipples.

Question regarding WheelSmith Spoke prep : I'm gonna lace the wheels this week, but won't be tensioning them much till 3-4 more weeks as I'm away from home. If I use the spoke prep already, will it still be good in maybe a month when Im really gonna torque everything up ? Assuming I'm not taking any spokes off or unthreading-threading a lot ?

Pics to come in a few days when everything is done.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Just curious which hubs did you go with and what length spokes did you need for these rims with your hub choice?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Mishtar said:


> Just curious which hubs did you go with and what length spokes did you need for these rims with your hub choice?


Well I took the Novatec D881/D882 hubs with the 9mm thru-QR and 10mm thru-QR, supplied by Light-Bicycle. They are 4in1 convertible hubs so I can run any axle type I want. Spoke calculator says I'd need 249mm, 250mm and 252mm spoke lengths for 3x lacing on the 518 ERD rims with 32 spokes. LB sent me ~251 or ~252mm spokes (I can't determine if they are 251 or 252) for that build so I guess I'll have to deal with this. I'm about to lace the front hub now so I'll see how it goes.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

So the front wheel is done for now. I have to say that the blind lacing is kind of a *****, but it's fun not having to use rim tape or messing with it. I had a few hiccups when inserting the nipples, as Lelandjt said one section of the rim where they took the bladder out was a bit difficult to go by, because the space of the rim cavity has been reduced with some resign to plug the hole thus I had to drill the spoke hole from 3/16 to 7/32 to allow the nipple to be able to flip in. Was quite time consuming. Next issue was when lacing the spokes from the hub to the rim, I dropped 3 nipples when trying to get them threaded on the spoke. What I did first on friday evening was to fish each nipples inside the rim and thread a spoke on each to hold them in place, then on Saturday I laced the hub with the other spokes and unthreading a temporary spoke to thread in the new laced one. Was pretty messy with all those spokes sticking out, so this time for the rear I'll try to lace each spoke as I fish the nipple trough. And it sucks that spokes are 2mm too long, makes the whole build harder coz I have to thread way past the visible threads on the spokes to get to a proper tension.

But I'm getting there. The rims are so stiff is amazing, no flex and very easy to true. I love it.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

*Difference between Flow EX and the LB wider rims*

Decided to jump in and order a carbon wheelset with the wider rims (Hope hubs). I currently run Flow EX. I was comparing the dimensions between the 2 rims:

Flow: Outer width = 29.1 mm; Inner width = 25.5 mm
LB Wide: Outer = 33 mm; Inner = 26 mm

My understanding of why the wider rim is so much better (especially for tubeless) is that the tire is more stable and has more surface area contact = better grip / cornering and less burping. This makes sense, but when I look at the difference in inner width, where the tire actually seats, it is only 0.5 mm difference - almost no difference - so that means that almost 90% of the extra width is just extra thickness of carbon and not a wider tire contact - I guess this is good for carbon structural durability, but not the benefits of a wider tire contact. Also, is a bunch of extra rim material going to buldge out on these rims? Am I understanding this correctly? Am I missing something?

Thanks for your expertise!


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^25.5 and 26mm are both considered fairly wide. There are only a few wider DH rims and recently a couple really wide rims aimed at AM use have shown up. Comparing outer rim widths is pointless, especially when dealing with different materials. The sidewalls aren't so thick that they rub on stuff.
The LB DH rim is like a stronger, stiffer, lighter Flow EX.
The LB AM rim is like a stronger, stiffer, lighter Flow (same inner width).

The Flow and Flow EX are excellent rims. Their dimensions and weight put them at the top of their segments, until affordable carbon showed up.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

Been riding this rim on the the rear only for a few months. Broke a nipple last month. Then broke 2 more nipples last night. First time was on a rocky trail so not sure if from a rock. Last night was a smoother trail but did land some drops hard on the rear which is normal the way I hack around the trail. (40 psi in tire) They are aluminum nips. Having my wheel guy switch them to brass. I am guessing that will be stronger? I hope. Anyone else breaking the nipples? When they break, the round base part breaks off inside the rim.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I have had that happen to (2) nipples so far. Man it's a ***** getting those heads out. I still have one pinging around in there. I am curious if they broke because of a combo of over tightening? and the hard edge from the rim digging into the nipple? 

I noticed the edge of the nipple hole looks like it rounds out after a nipple is tightened down so hoping subsequent nipple replacements won't have a hard edge digging into them?


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Sounds like too much tension to me. I have beat the piss out of mine(5 sets of LB rims in my possession now), and never broke a nipple. I have cracked a front pretty much all the way through, and put multiple cracks in a rear rim, no broken nipples or spokes. All mine use aluminum nipples.

Side note, I have never had to walk the bike down the trail with these rims. Even when I cracked the rim all the way through one side, the stans sealed it and I ripped with full confidence the rest of the day. These rims are bad ass, but you do need to consider them somewhat disposable when you make a mistake.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

I've lost track of this thread... Are we still talking about the 30mm rim or 33mm rim?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Your spokes are too short. The spoke isn't threading into the mushroom part of the nipple which is necessary to spread the load.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

mattsavage said:


> I've lost track of this thread... Are we still talking about the 30mm rim or 33mm rim?


All the recent posts are about the 33mm DH rim. The AM rim is proven enough at this point, what is there to say? I've seen so many broken Enves by now that I'm guessing both company's AM rims have similar failure rates.


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## metrotuned (Dec 29, 2006)

*Why go generic when you go top shelf?*

Paid ad on MTBR for 26" Reynolds Carbon Clincher Wheelset with DT Swiss 240s Hubs. Reynolds 26" Carbon Clincher Wheelset DT Swiss 240 Disc Hubs - Buy and Sell and Review Mountain Bikes and Accessories

I want to find a frame like this Amaro 26" gravel grinder for this wheelset. Maybe you guys already have that frame! I have 3 29er frames and 0 26" frames. Nothing generic or questionable quality about this wheelset.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Just done lacing the rear wheel. Next is to true, dish and tension the wheelset.

Took about 7-8 hours total for the blind lacing. Once I got it down, it went faster, averaging 3-5 minutes per spokes. Unfortunately that wasn't till the last 20 or so spokes out of the 64. Also took longer because of the spoke prep and waxing the spokes, hubs and rims first.

Pictures to come when I get the chance.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

Got the brass nipples now. Tension was well under the max. Length of spokes was mostly through the end of nips but there are a few that are close to not all the way. If these nips break then will get longer spokes. The broken bits don't move when the tire and tube are off. But they move around once its filled with air. Gonna try and line them up with stem hole, then take off tire and try and get them.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

jimonthecake said:


> The broken bits don't move when the tire and tube are off. But they move around once its filled with air.


That's what I'm experiencing. Makes it a real ***** to get the broken mushroom head out.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Did you tape the rim? The broken piece is sticking to the tape until knocked loose by impacts/vibration from riding. When you stop, it sticks again unless you can manage to stop it at the valve hole.

Edit:There's another little side benefit to justify the hours spent doing a blind laced build.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Lelandjt said:


> ^Did you tape the rim? The broken piece is sticking to the tape until knocked loose by impacts/vibration from riding. When you stop it sticks again unless you can manage to stop it at the valve hole.


I wish that were the case with mine. There's some voodoo going on in my rim. There is no rim tape, and I have tried to extract the piece by running some old shifter cable through the nipple cutouts through the rim to dislodge wherever it may be hiding. That damn thing is tenacious! and smart! I swear I ran this cable in each and every cutout through the channel and the damn thing still pings around sometimes (I don't hear it when riding) And as Jimon said with his, it only moves around when there is air in the tire. Freaking weird.


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## jimonthecake (Jul 1, 2004)

That would be too easy. If it stuck to the tape, it would be out of the rim by now.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

So here's the pictures of when I got the rims by the mail. Right on my b-day btw


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

More pics :


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

And that's all for now. I wanted to take some of the laced wheels, but it's rainy outside today and it won't do them justice by taking pictures inside.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

As you can see, everything was well packaged to prevent any moving or damaging, although no structural protection was provided. The package shipped on the 31st of August and got to my place (Maryland East Coast) on the 6th of September, my b-day being on the 7th, so it was a great gift to myself 

If you have any questions about what you see in the pics, just ask me


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

David C - based on the pics the finish quality looks good. Did you happen to weight the hubs before you built up the wheels? I'm interested in a real world weight on those hubs.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

davemk said:


> David C - based on the pics the finish quality looks good. Did you happen to weight the hubs before you built up the wheels? I'm interested in a real world weight on those hubs.


Dave, unfortunately I only have a fishing scale here at the beach, so I couldn't get any weight confirmed. honestly I wouldn't sweat 10+/-gr difference, but LB has a nice weight chart on their site for all the hubs they can supply with their wheels, and they are the same as the Novatec website (211f/436r). However Nancy told me the rims I was sent were 380g and 381g and spokes should be 4.3g each, nipples being 20g for 32 of them, etc. I asked for light rims since I'm only 120# with gear and won't do anything more than AM with these.

My maths shows the complete wheelset without the skewers at 1700gr. So I'll see when I get a proper scale what the official weight.

The finish on the rims is great, but not fancy. The outside wall is smooth, but you can see the 3k wave going up and down and where they overlap the layers, the outside layer isn't one continuous layer, it's more like 3 or 4. The inside of the rim isn't smooth all around, but decent enough for proper use of the rim. At $170 a piece, you can't expect too much man labor to go on the inside detailing of these. Overall I don't get a "cheap" feeling when I look closely at them, they are rock solid, meet and exceeded some of my expectations regarding the final product in term of strength, stiffness and finition.

The hubs are obviously awfully heavy, but I can't afford to pay $400 more for a set of Hope and I'm fine with these too. I'm not very wealthy (I just turned 21 and I'm still on the student era), but I think it was worth the extra cash to go with these instead of a set of alloy wheels like the XT or even American Classic. Note that almost half my income goes on bike stuff


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## lloydo (Nov 8, 2010)

you should buy your hope hubs of wiggle. just bought a pair to lace up to light-bicycle rims for $230 australian


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Hopes aren't that light. I think the Novatecs are about the same weight.


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## davemk (Jan 20, 2009)

Lelandjt said:


> Hopes aren't that light. I think the Novatecs are about the same weight.


According to the LB website the Novatec 881/882 combo in 15mm/12x142mm is 196F/402R vs 180F/306R for the Hope Pro 2 Evos. So 112g lighter for the set.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Here's pictures of the complete wheels. Another cloudy day so they are pretty dark, but I'll try to get better ones later on.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Second set of pics.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

David C said:


> Second set of pics.
> 
> View attachment 833005
> View attachment 833004
> ...


David, looks great. I still have my rims and Hope hubs sitting in my living room....no idea how to measure ERD yet if I don't have any extra spokes. Thus, can't order spokes. Sigh....yours looks awesome though!


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

so these rims are they the same as the ones ss use? im looking to build some wheels but not sure on the hubs to get, i want light?


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

RickyC said:


> so these rims are they the same as the ones ss use? im looking to build some wheels but not sure on the hubs to get, i want light?


Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does ss stand for in this context?


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

skyno said:


> Sorry if this is a dumb question, but what does ss stand for in this context?


super star as in superstar components


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

RickyC said:


> so these rims are they the same as the ones ss use?


No.

I'm not sure who makes the XC rims, but it's definitely different to the LB xc rim.

The AM rim is unique to Superstar, which they go to great pains to point out at every opportunity. It's also got a squared off UST style bead hook, the LB rims have a normal bead (mostly).


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

im looking at the xc rims not the am, are the hope hubs worth the upgrade also?

?


Fix the Spade said:


> No.
> 
> I'm not sure who makes the XC rims, but it's definitely different to the LB xc rim.
> 
> The AM rim is unique to Superstar, which they go to great pains to point out at every opportunity. It's also got a squared off UST style bead hook, the LB rims have a normal bead (mostly).


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

the difference is about $300 SS with tesla hubs or the LB and the hope?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

RickyC said:


> im looking at the xc rims not the am, are the hope hubs worth the upgrade also?
> 
> ?


Honestly you should go with the AM rims, even for XC use. They are stronger and wider without much added weight.

I used the DH ones, they're going on my XC bike for now, mostly for the nice width and stronger product. At 380g a rim, you can't really go any better for wide XC rim.

Also was able to set the tires tubeless on these rims in a snap using a CST Critter 2.1 folding, not tubeless version. Gonna add sealant next so they can hold air. The tire bead is set nice and tight on the rim.


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

RickyC said:


> the difference is about $300 SS with tesla hubs or the LB and the hope?


Honestly, the best response I can give is flip a coin.

Nobody has any horror stories about the Tesla hubs, they're certainly much tougher than the standard Switch (which is a fairly cheap Joytech). Having said that the Hopes probably are slightly better hubs.

For the rims the Superstars are better quality, they're up there with the best that DT Swiss makes (and priced accordingly). I'd go as far as to rate their rims higher than Enves. But then the LB rims are half the price and fine too.

Whichever you pick I echo the sentiment of going for the wider option, neither is exactly heavy.


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

thanks for your replys, i was in the superstar shop the other week and the lad showed me the carbon xc rims they looked good quality, 

i would rather buy quality like the ss ones than get the light bike ones and regret it down the road to save $200


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

RickyC said:


> thanks for your replys, i was in the superstar shop the other week and the lad showed me the carbon xc rims they looked good quality,
> 
> i would rather buy quality like the ss ones than get the light bike ones and regret it down the road to save $200


Honestly if you can afford it, go for the better quality ones. For a wheelset you'll be riding the next 10 years, $200 more isn't that big of a deal for piece of mind with customer service and warranty claims. Just go as wide as you can, you won't regret it.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

Anyone able to help me out with a quick question. Nancy supplied me with the link for finding thwe required spoke lengths at prowheelbuilder. She told me for the rim ERD, you can key "518mm" and that for the hubs I should plug in my DT Swiss hubs. My issue is I can plug in the 110-20mm front hub but it does not have a selection for the 12-142 rear hub.

So my question is can anyone tell me how I would find out the length required for the rear hub spokes?

Thank you


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Mishtar said:


> Anyone able to help me out with a quick question. Nancy supplied me with the link for finding thwe required spoke lengths at prowheelbuilder. She told me for the rim ERD, you can key "518mm" and that for the hubs I should plug in my DT Swiss hubs. My issue is I can plug in the 110-20mm front hub but it does not have a selection for the 12-142 rear hub.
> 
> So my question is can anyone tell me how I would find out the length required for the rear hub spokes?
> 
> Thank you


use the 135 hub dimensions (flanges are the same as 142 for dt swiss hubs).


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

006_007 said:


> use the 135 hub dimensions (flanges are the same as 142 for dt swiss hubs).


Thank you!


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

So when I put in a front 110-20mm DT Swiss hub and the 518 ERD Nancy gave me it gives me Left spoke length: 250.2, Right spoke length: 252. The rear gives me Left spoke length: 251.7, Right spoke length: 251.6. This site nancy gave me did not let me actually pick LB as a rim manufacture, does that matter? #1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER

So if I am not using DT Swiss 240 straight pull spokes does that mean I actually have to buy 4 different length spokes or can I buy 252's and 251's? Do the spokes have to be the exact size?

Thank you for everyone's help.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

Mishtar said:


> So when I put in a front 110-20mm DT Swiss hub and the 518 ERD Nancy gave me it gives me Left spoke length: 250.2, Right spoke length: 252. The rear gives me Left spoke length: 251.7, Right spoke length: 251.6. This site nancy gave me did not let me actually pick LB as a rim manufacture, does that matter? #1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER
> 
> So if I am not using DT Swiss 240 straight pull spokes does that mean I actually have to buy 4 different length spokes or can I buy 252's and 251's? Do the spokes have to be the exact size?
> 
> Thank you for everyone's help.


I'd just get all 252's. they'll work fine as long as all of the #'s you used are correct.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

mestapho said:


> I'd just get all 252's. they'll work fine as long as all of the #'s you used are correct.


The only number I had was the ERD provided by Nancy. The rest was just me inputting the Dt Swiss 240 110-20mm front with 3cross lacing and a 135 rear as the did not have a 12-142.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

mestapho said:


> I'd just get all 252's. they'll work fine as long as all of the #'s you used are correct.


Spoke calculator said I needed 249/252 front and 250/249 rear for my DH rims and Novatec hubs. They sent me all 252mm spokes and they are way too long for the rear and one front side. I'll have to either get new ones or have them rolled more thread on.

The 3mm difference is too much for the spoke to get enough tension. 1mm should be fine.


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## Skorp (Jul 20, 2009)

Could the burliest LB wide rim handle a heavy hardtail AM rider? 
Im 105kg, and ride a On-One 456Evo2. 
Heavy trails, heavy rider, fast riding and lots of jumps.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Skorp said:


> Could the burliest LB wide rim handle a heavy hardtail AM rider?
> Im 105kg, and ride a On-One 456Evo2.
> Heavy trails, heavy rider, fast riding and lots of jumps.


How often and how badly do you dent rim sidewalls? The condern with any carbon rim is cracking them due to bottoming out the tire on rocks. While any impact that damages a carbon rim will damage an aluminum one the alloy can sometimes be repaired, cost half as much to replace, and take half as long to get a replacement. As for strength handling big radial and lateral loads, the 430g DH rim is probably stronger than any alloy rim. I haven't cracked one from bottoming out the tire so I can't say exactly how much force it would take* but I have heard it hitting a few times, even kinda hard once or twice. Some of those hits were hard enough that I think they would have put repairable dents in the alloy rims I've used. I don't think any hits were hard enough to have caved in the sidewall of an alloy rim making it unrepairable.

*I've seen pics of 2 cracked LB am rims and seen a few cracked Enve am rims in person so it's definitely a possiblity.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Any one order their new DH rims in the last month? I paid on September 3rd and they quoted me 13 days for production. It's now the 27th and I still haven't heard anything from them.

Second question is I want to move my current hubs over to the new wheels. Can I take the ERD from my old rim and subtract it from the new rim then add that to the spokes I pull off the old rim to get the approximate spoke length needed?

Example would be original rim ERD is 538 with 265mm spokes. New rim ERD is 518. So 518-538 = -20 / 2 = -10mm for each spoke or 255mm spokes needed.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

That's too rough a guess and doesn't take into account the angle the spokes come from. Use the DT spoke calculator. Best to get your hub dimensions but you can measure if you can't find them.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

^^I have no idea for the spoke lengths.

For the rims, I bought mines in mid-august, they were ready end of august and shipped by the 31st. Maybe they did a run of other rims meanwhile and are getting back at manufacturing the DH ones now.

Also, I've been emailing a lot with Nancy and you have to give her a lot of credit for all her work. She's been sick I think 2 weeks ago and out of the office for a few days and told me that a lot of customers were angry not getting email replies meanwhile, and that she has to deal with the other departments (accounting, packaging, manufacturing, etc) too, to coordinate everything for each client. So far I've had a very positive experience with LB and Nancy, and I would simply suggest you give them a few days and not always expect a reply right away (although I often had replies within 30 minutes when I was up at 5am when it was 5pm over there).

I don't think they're about to run off with your money and even less try to screw you, they are making significant efforts to establish their brand name in the market and get a good reputation. So far they have been completely honest and helpful to me, and I've been in touch since last Christmas.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> How often and how badly do you dent rim sidewalls? The condern with any carbon rim is cracking them due to bottoming out the tire on rocks. While any impact that damages a carbon rim will damage an aluminum one the alloy can sometimes be repaired, cost half as much to replace, and take half as long to get a replacement. As for strength handling big radial and lateral loads, the 430g DH rim is probably stronger than any alloy rim. I haven't cracked one from bottoming out the tire so I can't say exactly how much force it would take* but I have heard it hitting a few times, even kinda hard once or twice. Some of those hits were hard enough that I think they would have put repairable dents in the alloy rims I've used. I don't think any hits were hard enough to have caved in the sidewall of an alloy rim making it unrepairable.
> 
> *I've seen pics of 2 cracked LB am rims and seen a few cracked Enve am rims in person so it's definitely a possiblity.


I made the mistake of not getting the heavier duty LB carbon DH rims and cracked it on my 2nd week of riding. They are going to warranty it and give me the heavier duty ones this time. Hopefully it doesn't happen again. I'm keeping a backup rim around me on any trips though.


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## Skorp (Jul 20, 2009)

I got three flatspots, and one sidewall dint on my Ragley rims. They felt really weak, and I think the rims are abit light.
My DTSwiss EX500 got one flatspot, and in a jump i landed bad, and i bent the rim sidewas so bad that it didnt fit in the frame anymore.. This was because of a bad build, the nipples was stuck on 60% of the spokes.
I think i want to try carbon rims, i dont think they collapse? 
Im not that afraid if the rim cracks, but if the collapse it could be bad!


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Skorp said:


> I got three flatspots, and one sidewall dint on my Ragley rims. They felt really weak, and I think the rims are abit light.
> My DTSwiss EX500 got one flatspot, and in a jump i landed bad, and i bent the rim sidewas so bad that it didnt fit in the frame anymore.. This was because of a bad build, the nipples was stuck on 60% of the spokes.
> I think i want to try carbon rims, i dont think they collapse?
> Im not that afraid if the rim cracks, but if the collapse it could be bad!


Carbon isn't gonna collapse or "bend". It will crack or delaminate, but will require a tremendous amount of force to so, to a point where you would have other things to worry about first if you would crash that hard to break them.

Like I said earlier, I bought the DH ones in lightweight (380g), and the rim itself is very stiff if you try to bend it by hands or put your weight on it. Lelandjt has been running a set of the burly DH ones (430g) for a few DH competitions and couldn't damage them.

The only concern is the rim hitting the ground, so make sure you always have enough pressure.


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## skewe (Sep 30, 2010)

Is there anybody selling it on Amazon
?


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Anyone know where to get some good decals? A google search only came up with roadie ****. or just cheat and buy some enve decals? They do look good.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

kan3 said:


> Any one order their new DH rims in the last month? I paid on September 3rd and they quoted me 13 days for production. It's now the 27th and I still haven't heard anything from them.


Put an order in on 9/9 and just got word that it shipped yesterday 9/29


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I just got back from the Moab Enduro and my rims took quite a beating. I was riding kinda ragged on the Porcupine stage and at separate times heard both rims hit REALLY hard. Hard enough that I was listening and feeling for any sign of failure or air loss after those hits. After crossing the finish line I inspected both rims and while they had some fresh scratches on the clear coat they appear fine otherwise. These are AM rims in the 380 & 400g builds and I've been using them since January. I was running EXO 2.5 DHF and 2.4 Ardent at 29 & 33 psi.


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## lloydo (Nov 8, 2010)

i ordered some a few weeks ago and still waiting. Must be getting lots of orders in and struggling to keep up with demand?


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Swissam said:


> Anyone know where to get some good decals? A google search only came up with roadie ****. or just cheat and buy some enve decals? They do look good.


Slik graphics


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

skyno said:


> Put an order in on 9/9 and just got word that it shipped yesterday 9/29


2 more days will be 1 month so I'll wait till then and toss them a request for an update.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

*They're here!*

Just got my complete wheelset (33mm DH rims with Hope hubs; 12x142 rear). Pictures cannot describe how beautiful these things are - don't have a scale handy, but boy are these light compared to my Stan's Flow EX - can't wait to get them mounted - it's like Xmas morning!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

skyno said:


> Just got my complete wheelset (33mm DH rims with Hope hubs; 12x142 rear). Pictures cannot describe how beautiful these things are - don't have a scale handy, but boy are these light compared to my Stan's Flow EX - can't wait to get them mounted - it's like Xmas morning!
> 
> View attachment 836487
> 
> ...


Super slick!! I have the same rims and hubs sitting in my living room for weeks. Can't figure out how to measure ERD since I got them with no holes on rim bed. Mind if I ask what spokes you used and what lengths? Did you re-measure ERD at all or just use what LB gives us in the drawing?


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Dayam. Looking good! Makes me want to buy a set, then buy a bike to put them on.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> Super slick!! I have the same rims and hubs sitting in my living room for weeks. Can't figure out how to measure ERD since I got them with no holes on rim bed. Mind if I ask what spokes you used and what lengths? Did you re-measure ERD at all or just use what LB gives us in the drawing?


The ERD should be 518mm with +/-1mm. At least that what mines seemed to be. Btw I had them without holes too, and I was running out of time to finish the build, so I brought them to my lbs and he quoted me the usual $60 to do the wheelset. Although I already had all the nipples in place, he wanted me to take everything apart before he starts working on it. So after lightly pointing out 3 times that he would then have to redo all the nipples due to the no-hole design, he still wanted me to take out all the nipples. That was this afternoon.

Next thing I know, I get a phone call this evening and *insert facepalm here* obviously he wanted to measure the ERD himself and couldn't do because of the continuous rim wall and that when it clicked in his head that he'll have to spend an extra hour or two redoing the blind lacing (we all have these moments in our life). So I took it easy on him and didn't mentioned that's what I was trying to tell him back at the shop. I figured after being in business for 30+ years, he didn't needed my advices. Guess I won't have my wheels in the quoted 24 hours turn-around delivery time 

Btw, nice wheels, the blue is so crisp !


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

David C said:


> The ERD should be 518mm with +/-1mm. At least that what mines seemed to be. Btw I had them without holes too, and I was running out of time to finish the build, so I brought them to my lbs and he quoted me the usual $60 to do the wheelset.


Can anyone else confirm that they used the LB-supplied ERD measurement of 518mm +/-1mm to order their spokes? I only ask because when doing research on the 'net for wheelbuilding resources, literally _*every single site*_ says to measure your own ERD. Measure your own ERD. Measure your own ERD. I don't have any spokes just laying around, so I've been struggling to measure ERD before I "assume" the rim ERD based on LB's drawing.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

Waiting?
Here's the note I got from LB on October 1:

>>
Hi, 

I have got your mail. 

We have a 7-day holiday for Chinese National Day, Oct. 1st~7th. 
I will reply your email soon when I come back to work.

Cheers,
Kartrin
<<


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I've never measured ERD, always use supplied dimensions.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> Can anyone else confirm that they used the LB-supplied ERD measurement of 518mm +/-1mm to order their spokes? I only ask because when doing research on the 'net for wheelbuilding resources, literally _*every single site*_ says to measure your own ERD. Measure your own ERD. Measure your own ERD. I don't have any spokes just laying around, so I've been struggling to measure ERD before I "assume" the rim ERD based on LB's drawing.


Just curious what length of spokes did you come up with using that ERD?

Thank you in advance!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Mishtar said:


> Just curious what length of spokes did you come up with using that ERD?
> 
> Thank you in advance!


Did you not read my post?

Regardless, spoke lengths differ depending on the hubs you're using. Unless you're using precisely the exact same setup as someone on here already posted up, their measurements wouldn't do you any good.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

chrisingrassia said:


> Super slick!! I have the same rims and hubs sitting in my living room for weeks. Can't figure out how to measure ERD since I got them with no holes on rim bed. Mind if I ask what spokes you used and what lengths? Did you re-measure ERD at all or just use what LB gives us in the drawing?


Aloha, you can still measure ERD the normal way, it will just take a bit more work as you will have to pass the spoke nipple down through the valve stem hole. I am attaching a .pdf file that describes how I do it. Hope it helps. Otherwise, you can use geometry to calculate it based on the overall diameter and measurements to specific parts of the rim.

Good luck............


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

gmats said:


> Aloha, you can still measure ERD the normal way, it will just take a bit more work as you will have to pass the spoke nipple down through the valve stem hole. I am attaching a .pdf file that describes how I do it. Hope it helps. Otherwise, you can use geometry to calculate it based on the overall diameter and measurements to specific parts of the rim.
> 
> Good luck............


This is awesome!!!! Except that I don't have spare spokes to use.....hence my trouble measuring ERD :/ .

p.s. is that the new 26" DH carbon rim you're measuring? If so, your ERD of 537 and LB's ERD of 518 are quite different.


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Oh man, really? There must be a way you can get your hands on two, "junker" spare spokes somewhere. Do you have a local bike shop you can go to? They'll have "junk" spokes lying around. Or maybe a junk yard or Salvation Army store, what ever. There must be an old wheel somewhere you can steal two spokes from. 

No, that particular rim I used to demonstrate was the 26" Wide AM rim. 

Again, good luck, where you located? If you were close by I'd just send you the stuff in the mail to use.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^Don't sweat it. I used the stated ERD and it came out perfect. For what it's worth I used all 250mm spokes on Pimplite front and DT240 157mm rear hubs.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

*1st Ride Report*

Installed & took my new 33mm DH wheelset out for a spin today & all I have to say is....WOW! - exceeded my expectations!

1st I weighed them in (wheelset only with Hope hubs) - not too bad:















Mounting them up it took longer than it should have, mostly due to random small issues that had nothing do do with the new wheels but just stuff you find when you start wrenching (stripped bolt on old rotors, decided it was time to clean eveything etc.). I mounted them up tubeless with Stans Tape & Sealant - it was tough to get the tires on compared to all other rims I've used - I guess that make sense with the larger dimensions, but once I got the tires on, they seated & sealed right up & lost no air at all (Hans Dampf / Ignitor - both TL ready) - I probably didn't even need much sealant















Then came the 1st ride - I could not believe how well they performed. They accelerated like a cheetah on steroids, just seemed to float over obstacles, and I felt so stable, controlled, & responsive - it was amazing - all aspects of my ride were improved: technical climbing, cornering, accelerating, jumping, flicking, dropping, rolling over stuff - everything. I didn't do anything too gnarly / chunky, but the small amount of chunk I hit, these things just ate it up - it was almost like a whole new bike.

Now, I also have new Hope Evo Hubs as well and I took the opportunity to clean up things up really well before the ride when installing the wheelset, so that may have been part of it, and I won't discount the "mental stoke factor" of just having a new toy, and these are my 1st carbon rims, but there is no doubt that I was riding better - and I was coming from Stans Flow EX w/ Ibis Hubs, so it wasn't like I had junk before.

A couple of things I did not expect:

I felt higher up on the bike - I had to make a couple minor adjustments because I definitely felt like I was sitting higher - I am guessing that the wheels are just slightly larger in diameter than my old ones? - not a bad thing, but I definitely noticed it.

I had to adjust my brake calipers quite a bit - I guess the rotors just sit in a different spot, but now only my front brake is very soft now like the the line needs to be bled, but rear is fine - this doesn't make sense because both rotors are the same. Any ideas here?

There was a bit of creaking that wasn't there before - couldn't figure out exactly where it was coming from, but hopefully it will go away and is there because of new parts. Anyone else have this?

Overall, I love these things!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

What kind of spokes are folks using with these 33mm rims? I _finally_ was able to snag some spare ones just to measure ERD (you were right leland, 250mm all around is dead on). Now it's time to order. CX-Rays are good spokes, but I just can't see myself spending $200 on 72 spokes + spares. Any other suggestions people recommend for carbon wheels? Preferences?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> What kind of spokes are folks using with these 33mm rims? I _finally_ was able to snag some spare ones just to measure ERD (you were right leland, 250mm all around is dead on). Now it's time to order. CX-Rays are good spokes, but I just can't see myself spending $200 on 72 spokes + spares. Any other suggestions people recommend for carbon wheels? Preferences?


I really like the Pillar PSR X-TRA spokes they sent me, but they messed up the lengths so I'll probably be going with some Sapim double butted ones from Dans Comp.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I've been using DT Aerolites (their version of CX-Rays) but even at wholesale they're crazy expensive, $2.40 per spoke. Supposedly Pillar makes an identical spoke that's about $1 per spoke.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> I've been using DT Aerolites (their version of CX-Rays) but even at wholesale they're crazy expensive, $2.40 per spoke. Supposedly Pillar makes an identical spoke that's about $1 per spoke.


Right? Getting an awesome deal on some carbon wheels is useless if spokes just end up sucking the savings.

Pillar's are impossible to find, apparently. CX-Rays just seem like too much bling and $ for me, even the DT Aerolites seem unnecessary for me.

Just went ahead with some standard 14g Sapim's: Sapim Black 14G Spoke at Danscomp


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^No need to go that heavy. DT Competition 14/15 butted spokes are kind of thw standard and a box of 72 wholesales for $68 so you ahould be able to find them for about $1.50ea. They save significant weight over straight 14 guage. I'm gonna start trying to find a source for those Pillar light aero spokes.


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Can anyone recommend a straight pull spoke that is perhaps a touch less expensive than the cx-ray? Only thing I could really find that was common were the dt comp straight pulls.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> ^No need to go that heavy. DT Competition 14/15 butted spokes are kind of thw standard and a box of 72 wholesales for $68 so you ahould be able to find them for about $1.50ea. They save significant weight over straight 14 guage. I'm gonna start trying to find a source for those Pillar light aero spokes.


According to Dan's: 
32 Sapim 14g straight spokes are ~200grams

According to Wheelbuilder:
32 DT Comp 14g double butted spokes are ~190grams

We're splitting hairs now. I'll take the value items now and upgrade if I think it's necessary. I know you race leland, so it would make sense for you. Let us know about those Pillars though, I might try them in the future.


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

Thing is: butted spokes make stronger wheels. Not completely into the witchcraft, but the people who build wheels for a living should know..


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Right? Getting an awesome deal on some carbon wheels is useless if spokes just end up sucking the savings.


Not sure I understand the logic here? Wouldn't you need to buy the spokes regardless of how good of a deal you get on the rims? So you can buy $900 rims and pay $150 for the spokes or you can buy $300 rims and pay $150 for the spokes.

Will LB sell you the Pillar spokes they use?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

DT claims a 24g difference per wheel but yeah, it's less than I thouht. I've heard the claim the butted spokes are stronger than stariht but can't remember why, maybe something about work hardening. I do think thicker spokes will result in a stiffer wheel.


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## Bike Therapy (Jul 12, 2013)

Hi guys! Does anyone here have any information on mating DT Swiss Tricon hubs to these carbon rims? Preferably the all mountain ones. I really want to buy a set but Im hesitant because I cant find any info on compatibility. Tricon Hubs are high quality but propietary. My wheels are the M1700. DT Swiss - M 1700 TRICON® 26. The lacing is open crowfoot 24 spokes. Thanks guys


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Bike Therapy said:


> Hi guys! Does anyone here have any information on mating DT Swiss Tricon hubs to these carbon rims?


Not gonna happen. Those hubs require a proprietary spoke that needs a proprietary rim drilling. Sell'em and get the LBs.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

skyno said:


> Not sure I understand the logic here? Wouldn't you need to buy the spokes regardless of how good of a deal you get on the rims? So you can buy $900 rims and pay $150 for the spokes or you can buy $300 rims and pay $150 for the spokes.
> 
> Will LB sell you the Pillar spokes they use?


I think we could buy the Pillar spokes from LB, just might get sucky on the shipping (I think they won't use anything but EMS and it's $29 for the first 500g than $7 more per extra 500g) so you'd have to buy a bunch of them to offset shipping cost by spokes value.

If I remembered they were asking something like $1.50 per spoke. Not bad at all.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Nancy says she'll sell Pillar X-TRA 1420 spokes with alloy nipples for $1.65ea. She's getting back to me on shipping and lead times. I recommended that she put these on the website as I bet there's a high demand from US customers providing cost is significantly below DT Aerolite or Sapim CX-Ray.

Aerolites have the convenience that any bike shop can add them to their weekly QBP order. Does anyone know who distributes Sapim spokes? I'm emailing Pillar about US distribution for shops.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> Nancy says she'll sell Pillar X-TRA 1420 spokes with alloy nipples for $1.65ea. She's getting back to me on shipping and lead times. I recommended that she put these on the website as I bet there's a high demand from US customers providing cost is significantly below DT Aerolite or Sapim CX-Ray.
> 
> Aerolites have the convenience that any bike shop can add them to their weekly QBP order. Does anyone know who distributes Sapim spokes? I'm emailing Pillar about US distribution for shops.


Good idea. I have no idea who distribute Sapim in the US, but I know Dans Comp has the Laser in black for $0.95 which weights less than 4.3g and could be shipped to me by next weekend for $10. Considering they are less expensive, as light and faster to get, I think that's where I'm heading next.

On a side note, anyone interested into 18pcs of 247mm Pillar spokes and 17pcs of 246mm, 18pcs of 244mm and 18pcs of 251.5mm ? These are the PSR X-TRA 1420. Brand new, I'd do $100 for the whole set, shipping is on me for Canada/USA. Also DT gold 12mm alloy nipples for $0.50 each and Pillar black 12mm alloy nipples for $0.30 each.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

David C said:


> Dans Comp has the Laser in black for $0.95 which weights less than 4.3g.


I think those are the same as DT Revolution. A triple butted spoke that is very thin in the middle and thinner than normal on the threaded end, necessitating a different gauge nipple. Supposedly they are pretty flexy and twist badly when truing. I've stayed away from them. Either regular 14/15 butted or these lightweight aero spokes.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> I think those are the same as DT Revolution. A triple butted spoke that is very thin in the middle and thinner than normal on the threaded end, necessitating a different gauge nipple. Supposedly they are pretty flexy and twist badly when truing. I've stayed away from them. Either regular 14/15 butted or these lightweight aero spokes.


They are double-butted 14g/17g/14g.

Maybe you're talking about the Sapim Super Spoke ?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm not up on all the Sapim spokes but that's about what I expected except I was thinking it was 15g on the threaded end. People who have built with the similar DT Revolution say the 17g section allows a lot of wind-up when truing which can be tough to deal with. A thicker spoke or a bladed spoke that can be held prevents this. Traditionally they resulted in a less stiff wheel but perhaps with carbon rims this isn't the case. Take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt cuz I've never built with them, just replaced a few Revolutions. I'm only repeating what I've been told but based on that info I've stuck to DT Competition 14/15g when on a budget or DT Aerolite (I'd comfortably substitute Sapim CX-Ray or Pillar X-TRA 1420) when weight is the goal and money doesn't matter.


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## Andy13 (Nov 21, 2006)

BTI distributes Sapim spokes in the US. They don't always have the sizes you need in stock.


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

Those of you who do have the drilled rimbeds, how are you sealing them, stans wide yellow tape, gorilla...other? I know enve uses specially cut gorilla tape on theirs.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

For a while I was using Gorilla on rims but then realized it weighs 20g+ compared to NoTubes at 7g. The widest NoTubes tape should work well since the inside width is the same as the Flow EX.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

gmats said:


> Oh man, really? There must be a way you can get your hands on two, "junker" spare spokes somewhere. Do you have a local bike shop you can go to? They'll have "junk" spokes lying around. Or maybe a junk yard or Salvation Army store, what ever. There must be an old wheel somewhere you can steal two spokes from.
> 
> No, that particular rim I used to demonstrate was the 26" Wide AM rim.
> 
> Again, good luck, where you located? If you were close by I'd just send you the stuff in the mail to use.


Hey what's up Grant! It's Berry from Cali! What's up buddy? I was on this thread because I just ordered 2 of the All Mountain 33 wide rims when I saw your post and realized that it was you. I'm going to have these rims laced up to my Hope Pro2 EVO's so I cant wait to try them out. Are you coming out for Kernville? I want to go with my new ride, but I don't think I can make it. Work and my daughters soccer are both conflicting for that weekend.:madman: Oh well, next time. How do you like these rims? Did you notice a difference? I'm going to run them on my new Uzzi, that I just put on my 11-40 Leonardi cassette with my 20-32-42 so I can keep up with Troy on the climbs. It has 7" travel front and back, but only weighs 30lbs and rips both up and down.

Anyway, TTYL Berry:cornut:


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Got my wheels today in the mail. I asked for the rim bed holes not to be drilled but they drilled them anyway. Not a big deal I guess.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> Hey what's up Grant! It's Berry from Cali! What's up buddy? I was on this thread because I just ordered 2 of the All Mountain 33 wide rims when I saw your post and realized that it was you. I'm going to have these rims laced up to my Hope Pro2 EVO's so I cant wait to try them out. Are you coming out for Kernville? I want to go with my new ride, but I don't think I can make it. Work and my daughters soccer are both conflicting for that weekend.:madman: Oh well, next time. How do you like these rims? Did you notice a difference? I'm going to run them on my new Uzzi, that I just put on my 11-40 Leonardi cassette with my 20-32-42 so I can keep up with Troy on the climbs. It has 7" travel front and back, but only weighs 30lbs and rips both up and down.
> 
> Anyway, TTYL Berry:cornut:


Please post your findings..thinking about the same rims on dt swiss 240s for my SB66c


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Shredman69 said:


> 20t ring and 40t cog.


WHAT!!!??? I've never heard of someone running gearing even close to that low. Have you used it yet? Does it work or is traction, balance, and wheelieing the limit? Are there places where you prefer 1st gear to 2nd? I tried 22:34 when 9spd came out and thoight it was unusably low. Now with 10spd triples the lowest I see coming on bikes is a slightly higher 24:36. The lowest gearing I've ever had is the 22:28 on my XC bike and the almost identical 26:34 on my enduro bike. For reference those are 1.3:1. I could imagine using a slightly lower gear but your's is 2:1!

Please don't take this as a criticism in any way. I'm just curious about your unusual setup.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

yeti575inCA said:


> Please post your findings..thinking about the same rims on dt swiss 240s for my SB66c


That is the hottest possible setup. I have it on my DH bike and the same but with the mid-width rims on my other two bikes. Unless you prioritize engagement points DT 240s are the best hubs and I think these are the two best rims.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> That is the hottest possible setup. I have it on my DH bike and the same but with the mid-width rims on my other two bikes. Unless you prioritize engagement points DT 240s are the best hubs and I think these are the two best rims.


I currently have a set of Alum Easton Havens and looking to swap to the Carbon DH plus Dt Swiss 240's.. wonder what the weight comparison would be...


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Yo, Berry, yeah, I'm here, staying at Troy's. Decided I needed a break from the island so I'm out here for Kern. Friday a bunch of us went down to The Path to get my hands on a Solo (it really says that on the frame) Carbon and then on to Turner to get demos there. I have a Flux 27.5 and a Solo C right now for PV riding Sunday. TB demoed a Czar - 23 lb. He liked it but because of the XX1 needed more gearing. 

Yes, I've been running those LB rims (first the 26" wide and now the 27.5 AM) for some time now. Have had them for several years now. They're great! Yes, saw pics of your Uzzi.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

yeti575inCA said:


> I currently have a set of Alum Easton Havens and looking to swap to the Carbon DH plus Dt Swiss 240's.. wonder what the weight comparison would be...


With the 430g build rims, Aerolite spokes, alloy nips, and 20mm & 157mm hubs mine are 1600g. Subtract about 70g for 15mm & 142mm hubs. Also, if they're going on an AM bike you can probably get by with the 370 or whatever gram rims instead of the 430g build.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> WHAT!!!??? I've never heard of someone running gearing even close to that low. Have you used it yet? Does it work or is traction, balance, and wheelieing the limit? Are there places where you prefer 1st gear to 2nd? I tried 22:34 when 9spd came out and thoight it was unusably low. Now with 10spd triples the lowest I see coming on bikes is a slightly higher 24:36. The lowest gearing I've ever had is the 22:28 on my XC bike and the almost identical 26:34 on my enduro bike. For reference those are 1.3:1. I could imagine using a slightly lower gear but your's is 2:1!
> 
> Please don't take this as a criticism in any way. I'm just curious about your unusual setup.


LOL, no worries bro. Here's the thing, I ride everything. I have friends who ride cross country and friends who ride DH. I want a bike that can do everything from super steep and long climbs, (so I can hang with my XC buddy's) to super steep DH, Parks And drops. And I'm not a 25 yr old XC guy on a 23 lb bike that can ride everything in a single front ring. I'm an old man on a 30lb 7" travel bike who has been riding Mtn Bikes for 30 years and wants to be able to cruise up anything I want at a nice and easy pace and then bomb back down or vice versa. That gear combo is new, as is the bike, but I'll use every bit of that low gear. I have been riding a 20-32-44 up front with an 11-36 out back for years now and it's great. But when it's super hot outside, and super steep climbs, then I'm all good, no need to get off and push it up the hill when I can put it in low and go slow. I have friends who have been riding a custom 18 inner ring with a 38 on back for their low gear and they climb anything like a billy goat. So I use what works for me, not what the current marketing trends are. :thumbsup:


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

gmats said:


> Yo, Berry, yeah, I'm here, staying at Troy's. Decided I needed a break from the island so I'm out here for Kern. Friday a bunch of us went down to The Path to get my hands on a Solo (it really says that on the frame) Carbon and then on to Turner to get demos there. I have a Flux 27.5 and a Solo C right now for PV riding Sunday. TB demoed a Czar - 23 lb. He liked it but because of the XX1 needed more gearing.
> 
> Yes, I've been running those LB rims (first the 26" wide and now the 27.5 AM) for some time now. Have had them for several years now. They're great! Yes, saw pics of your Uzzi.


Sweet! It looks like I am going to be able to do Kernville after all, at least one day so ill see you there bro! :thumbsup:


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

i will be biting the bullet on some AM carbon rims with hope hubs these will be $906, i can get the superstar rims cheaper now for $720

Superstar Components - High Spec Parts For Peanuts

which should i go for? will be mainly xc riding, not a hardcore down hill rider


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

skyno said:


> Installed & took my new 33mm DH wheelset out for a spin today & all I have to say is....WOW! - exceeded my expectations!
> 
> 1st I weighed them in (wheelset only with Hope hubs) - not too bad:
> 
> ...


Nice feedback. Got a rim coming that will go on the back of my HD with a hope hub


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

OK holy cr*p, this is a much more difficult task than I think I was prepared for. I've got the 33mm rims, 32-hole, HPII Evo hubs front/rear, and standard spokes. I have all the nipples and spokes installed on the wheel just hanging loose, waiting to be attached to the hub. I started on the front wheel this afternoon, and after 5 hours of going back and forth and back and forth, fetching nipples lost inside the rim, etc, I have to call it a night >_<. This lacing thing is damn difficult for a newb like me. Not truing or tensioning, just the lacing. I've spent hours today watching YT and reading various sites, but this thing is kicking my butt. I've got 8 spokes laced up on the disc side, with the "rotation" set so I form that parallel line to the valve hole. What I can't figure out is where to go next. Some sites/videos say flip the wheel over and lace up the non-disc side. 

Anyone have a good source they recommend to look at just to get the basics of this wheel lacing done? I checked out Sheldon Brown's site, but his lacing pictures don't actually show me which hub holes correspond to which rim holes. Seriously confused right now, my brain is fried. Hopefully someone could throw me a bone here they recommend, will attempt this again tomorrow. 

TIA!!


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Set a built wheel in front of you so you can look at which spokes go where. Don't remove the spoke holding the nipple in place until the moment you are ready to thread thqt nipple onto the spoke that's already laced. You only need one extra spoke to stay a step ahead like this. Do all the spokes with the elbows on the inside first. It's harder to lace them when there's already a bunch of spokes in the way. Put spoke prep or blue loctite on the spoke threads. Find a comfortable position in front of the TV with beer and other supplies within reach.

When in doubt carefully examine the built wheel and count spoke holes to figure out which spokes go where and in which direction. Keep double checking your work against the built wheel.


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

I built my first set of wheels (non carbon rims) last winter and they have held up to a season of lift access HDTV with needing to be touched once this year. 
The resource I used was from here: Wheelbuilding book for building cycle wheels
It was the best $14 I spent on my bike. I laced my first wheel in 25min with the guide and the second one was a little longer because I made a mistake trying to go faster. 
Good luck,
Eric


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Set a built wheel in front of you so you can look at which spokes go where. Don't remove the spoke holding the nipple in place until the moment you are ready to thread thqt nipple onto the spoke that's already laced. You only need one extra spoke to stay a step ahead like this. Do all the spokes with the elbows on the inside first. It's harder to lace them when there's already a bunch of spokes in the way. Put spoke prep or blue loctite on the spoke threads. Find a comfortable position in front of the TV with beer and other supplies within reach.
> 
> When in doubt carefully examine the built wheel and count spoke holes to figure out which spokes go where and in which direction. Keep double checking your work against the built wheel.


Haha, exactly what I was doing last night. As luck would have it, my current wheels are straight-pull Havocs, so they were no help. Was trying to look at zoomed-in pics of wheels online to get an idea how to lace.

I think the one area I'm getting conflicting information on is do I lace up the wheel while the hub is stationary, or do I need to "twist" the hub at some point (after the first 8 are input) before lacing the rest of the flange(s)?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

If you lace all the inside spokes first (what I do to make it easier to get them into place) you will have to twist the hub when you start lacing the outside spokes. If you already have some spokes laced going each direction that should hold the hub in place. It will definitely be harder to do if you don't have a wheel to look at to see which hub hole matches up with which rim hole. If you can't find a wheel to use just keep looking at internet pics. Remember to find a pic of a wheel that has the spokes going the same direction you're doing (inside aiming rearward or forward). I was taught to have the pulling spokes (aiming rearward on the back wheel, aiming forward on a front disc wheel) on the outside but I've seen so many wheels both ways I don't think it matters.

If you struggle to finda wheel or pics that clearly show both the hub and rim holes and you already have the spokes around the valve hole done just keep going from where you are. Each identical spoke will be 2 holes away in the hub and 4 holes away in the rim. Since you're new at this and dealing with expensive bits my advice is to loosely lace them, then bring them to a shop to be tensioned, ride'em a day, then bring them back to have the tension checked. It will be worth it to know you have a solid wheels build and you can feel the tension they use and keep that as a reference when doing future truing yourself. It's not easy to bring a wheel into tension and keep it even and round.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> If you lace all the inside spokes first (what I do to make it easier to get them into place) you will have to twist the hub when you start lacing the outside spokes.


So I just decided to wing it, and I think I got lucky. Does this look right? I haven't tensioned or aligned the spokes yet. Looking for some feedback before I move to the rear wheel.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I thin kso.


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

are those the 33mm wide 30mm deep wheels above?

can i run 2.1 width tyres on the 33 mm rims?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

RickyC said:


> are those the 33mm wide 30mm deep wheels above?
> 
> can i run 2.1 width tyres on the 33 mm rims?


You could, but I wouldn't.:nono: 2.1 is an XC tire size and that is an AM/DH rim. If you ride AM then you should run a 2.35 or bigger. And if You ride XC then you should run a lighter, narrower XC rim.:thumbsup:


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

thanks, think i better change my order with light bike quick then.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

RickyC said:


> are those the 33mm wide 30mm deep wheels above?
> 
> can i run 2.1 width tyres on the 33 mm rims?


Despite what the guy above said, one of the main benefits of having a wider rim is that you can run a tire size smaller to save even more weight and it will have close to the same profile as a larger tire on a narrower rim. You just need to make sure you are not running anything to thin. This would be more noticeable on the Syntace W35 as that rim is 28.5mm but I am betting All of this is talked about in the article PB did on Syntace.
Syntace W35 MX Wheels Review - Pinkbike

I used to have the normal Flows which were 22.6mm internal width and I rode a Minnion 2.35, I am betting the Mountain King II's which are only 2.2 will probably look close to the same in profile with the extra 3.4mm of inner diameter. They also weigh almost 200 grams less per tire and have the Conti Protection side walls.


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

thanks, well i dont do any hardcore riding, i want to use the panaracer 2,1 xc tyres

should i ask to change to these or stick with the 33 mm wides

wider mtb 26er carbon bike rim 26 inch rims(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

RickyC said:


> thanks, well i dont do any hardcore riding, i want to use the panaracer 2,1 xc tyres
> 
> should i ask to change to these or stick with the 33 mm wides
> 
> wider mtb 26er carbon bike rim 26 inch rims(tubeless-compatible) Light-Bicycle


IMO, if you are going to do the type of riding where those XC tires are sufficient, you do not need the DH rim - the tire will probably be difficult to put on but will probably fit, but if you ride it like a DH rim with that tire, you will have problems and likely eventually destroy your wheels. If you think you might eventually ride Enduro / FR / DH stuff with a strong, high-volume tire, maybe it is worth it to get the wider DH rims so you are more versatile. If you are going to ride mostly XC, may as well get a lighter, smaller rim.

My 2 cents.


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

right ill contact lite bike and get them swapped, i did think they were over the top for my style of riding,

thankyou for your help


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

RickyC said:


> right ill contact lite bike and get them swapped, i did think they were over the top for my style of riding,
> 
> thankyou for your help


Ive got the DH ones for my XC bike exactly for the wide profile. Just get them in 380g light weight build and I had no problem mounting a 2.1 folding tire on it and even airing without tube (non-tubeless tire either), it seated right on and bead seat was tight. Stay with them, they are so much better and also uses the new manufacturing process that the other 26" rims doesn't have.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Question for the people that have the 33mm 26" rim:

Does it have the ridges on the bead shelf that prevent the tire bead from falling back into the center channel?

What is the fillet radius where the bead shelf meets the vertical sidewall of the rim? I think in the mavic UST rims, this is a rather abrupt 90 degrees transition, with radius of curvature of 1mm or less. It's hard to tell from the pictures, but for this rim it looks a lot more rounded.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

None of the LB rims have the bead nip on the shelf. You'll have to get someone with an unmounted rim to analyze the shelf to sidewall radius. Their AM and DH rims have mounted and performed tubeless comparatively to my NoTubes rims with Conti Protection, Kenda, Maxxis Exo, and DH tires. I run 29/33psi most of the time.


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

David C said:


> Ive got the DH ones for my XC bike exactly for the wide profile. Just get them in 380g light weight build and I had no problem mounting a 2.1 folding tire on it and even airing without tube (non-tubeless tire either), it seated right on and bead seat was tight. Stay with them, they are so much better and also uses the new manufacturing process that the other 26" rims doesn't have.


thats great what i wanted to hear,

thankyou


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

Light-bicycle answered my questions by sending me a profile drawing of the rim.

It does not have the little ridges on the bead shelf. 
The radius of that section I was talking about is 2.5mm, which is a lot.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

leland - I PM'ed you, but will throw this out here as well. Anyone know if the two spokes on each side of the valve hole should be innies or outies (i.e. spoke head on the outside of flange vs inside)?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> leland - I PM'ed you, but will throw this out here as well. Anyone know if the two spokes on each side of the valve hole should be innies or outies (i.e. spoke head on the outside of flange vs inside)?


Both, one is leading and one is trailing, so they will be laced opposite of each other. You will find some resources say trailing spokes should be innies and some resources will say they should be outies. I think the difference is negligible.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

mestapho said:


> Both, one is leading and one is trailing, so they will be laced opposite of each other. You will find some resources say trailing spokes should be innies and some resources will say they should be outies. I think the difference is negligible.


I'm not home currently, so I can't check what I did last night. Is there a negative effect if I made both valve spokes innies/outies instead of opposites?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> I'm not home currently, so I can't check what I did last night. Is there a negative effect if I made both valve spokes innies/outies instead of opposites?


They couldn't be laced the same if you laced the wheel correctly.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

mestapho said:


> They couldn't be laced the same if you laced the wheel correctly.


Edit ^

I was thinking about the parallel spokes on the same se of the hub.

They could in fact be opposite if you weren't consistent in how you laced the hubs (trailing innies on one side and outies on the other). It would be strange, but I don't think it would effect the performance.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

mestapho said:


> Edit ^
> 
> I was thinking about the parallel spokes on the same se of the hub.
> 
> They could in fact be opposite if you weren't consistent in how you laced the hubs (trailing innies on one side and outies on the other). It would be strange, but I don't think it would effect the performance.


Phew. Thanks. I was curious to how it would be impossible, as it would just be turning the spoke head around to the other side of the flange. I guess I'll find out if I laced them right when I take them to the shop to be trued and tensioned!


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Been on the road so just checking in and saw this and your PM. It looks like the advice above is correct.. Use the wheel you already laced as a guide and just copy it. I was taught the pulling spokes should be outies so front and rear wheels would be opposite but I don't think it actually matters.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Alright, so I'm returning the Pillar spokes for refund and will order Sapim Race from Dan's Comp if possible today. I've measured my hubs (Novatec D881/882 in 9x100 and 10x135) and ran the numbers trough 5 different spoke lenght calculators (Sheldon Excel sheet, DT, Sapim, WheelPro UK and ProWheelBuilder) and got very awkward results.

Considering some calculators asked for the distance between hub center and inner flanges and others for distance between locknut and outer flanges (why not to middle of flange though ??), I would have expected the ones using similar inputs to give similar outputs. Well I was dead wrong. 3 of them gave very similar results and 2 others (while very similar) gave me at least 2-3mm of difference. And both group results had different hub inputs (either center to flange or locknut to flange).

So what should I use ?? For building up the wheels at first with all 251.5mm spokes, I know they were too long in the rear and too long on the front left side (not sure about the front right side, looked good at the time). So should I go with the ones giving shorter spoke lengths or with the average of all 5 results ?

Here's the result table btw :









This is for the DH rims with 518mm ERD and 32h, using all brass 12mm nipples.

Thanks for any help


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

You already built them once and realized the spokes were too long? Just look at what you had and estimate how many millimeters shorter you'll need.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> You already built them once and realized the spokes were too long? Just look at what you had and estimate how many millimeters shorter you'll need.


Unfortunately, that's where lies the problem. Can't figure it out correctly from there since they are without outer drilling and I don't have spokes on hand anymore.

Edit : I think I'm gonna go with the DT swiss results, since they are the closest ones to what I managed to figure out.

left | right
front 250/253
rear 251/250


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I've always used the DT Swiss calculator and been happy with the results. I only buy even number length spokes to cut down on inventory and round up or down. Your last spokes probably weren't more than 2mm too long but you just gotta guess and compare that to the calculator's numbers.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks. Hopefully I'll get it right this time. I don't know yet when I'll have new spokes on hand, so might take a few weeks before I build them up again.


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## RickyC (Sep 24, 2013)

cant wait for mine to arrive now, how long does delivery take to the uk?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

David C said:


> Unfortunately, that's where lies the problem. Can't figure it out correctly from there since they are without outer drilling and I don't have spokes on hand anymore.
> 
> Edit : I think I'm gonna go with the DT swiss results, since they are the closest ones to what I managed to figure out.
> 
> ...


I just can't see this being such an enormous issue. You essentially have 10-15mm of "play" between the rim bed and the nipple. The threading on spokes is usually ~10mm....you've got lots of room to play if you go with longer spokes. A difference of 1-2mm betwene calculators won't kill you either way.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> I just can't see this being such an enormous issue. You essentially have 10-15mm of "play" between the rim bed and the nipple. The threading on spokes is usually ~10mm....you've got lots of room to play if you go with longer spokes. A difference of 1-2mm betwene calculators won't kill you either way.


The problem I had was the nipple bottoming out on the end of the spoke's threads because the 10mm of thread wasn't enough to achieve proper tension.

Also, did you confirmed the ERD of 518mm for both your rims in the end ?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

chrisingrassia said:


> You essentially have 10-15mm of "play" between the rim bed and the nipple. The threading on spokes is usually ~10mm....you've got lots of room to play if you go with longer spokes.


I've found the margin for error on spoke length is only around 2mm. Of course if they're too long they bottom-out and if there's not enough thread engaged I've seen alloy nipples snap at the mushroom and brass ones have their threads pull out. These things aren't guaranteed to happen but since I've seen them I try to have my spokes threading into the nipple's mushroom but not bottomed out.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

Seems like lately all my wheel builds, the calculators have been suggesting spokes that are about 1mm too long. They work, but are SUPER close to being bottomed out.


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## material guy (Mar 14, 2011)

Have you tried this calculator? Spoke Length Calculator . It has worked for me on my builds.
Bang on for the set I built up last night.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

David C said:


> The problem I had was the nipple bottoming out on the end of the spoke's threads because the 10mm of thread wasn't enough to achieve proper tension.
> 
> Also, did you confirmed the ERD of 518mm for both your rims in the end ?


I didn't end up measuring myself. I just used 518mm, and bought 250mm spokes all around. The calc's showed me at 249-251mm specs. I think the obsession with spoke length makes total sense if you have a tube to worry about. But going tubeless on these rims with the rim bed sealed up means you have extra length to play with.


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## thuren (Jul 29, 2009)

chrisingrassia said:


> I think the obsession with spoke length makes total sense if you have a tube to worry about. But going tubeless on these rims with the rim bed sealed up means you have extra length to play with.


Say what?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

thuren said:


> Say what?


Yeah man. I was so insanely obsessed with making sure I didn't order 252mm or 248mm or 253mm or whatever when that wasn't the size I "needed". Since I got the rims with no spoke holes drilled, the center channel is ~16mm deep, so stressing about whether a mm or two was insignificant when it comes to buying too long. Obviously spokes too short are worthless, but worrying about having an extra 2-5mm in spoke length isn't a problem for me (if I happened to calculate incorrectly or just rounded up to an even #). The extra spoke length won't poke through to the rim bed, which would be a problem if you run a tube.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

chrisingrassia said:


> Yeah man. I was so insanely obsessed with making sure I didn't order 252mm or 248mm or 253mm or whatever when that wasn't the size I "needed". Since I got the rims with no spoke holes drilled, the center channel is ~16mm deep, so stressing about whether a mm or two was insignificant when it comes to buying too long. Obviously spokes too short are worthless, but worrying about having an extra 2-5mm in spoke length isn't a problem for me (if I happened to calculate incorrectly or just rounded up to an even #). The extra spoke length won't poke through to the rim bed, which would be a problem if you run a tube.


Again, it would be a problem if the spoke would have more threads to it than just 10mm. My spokes were too long that I was running out of threads to build up proper tension. If they would have been 2mm shorter (for example), it wouldn't have been an issue.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

mentawais said:


> I need some help to building a wheel in a LB 26" new DH rim,how spoke lenght can I use to a HOPE PRO2 EVO rear hub?


You can use this link. Just put in 518 for the ERD on the rims and your hubs from the drop down menu.:thumbsup:

#1 Wheel Building SPOKE CALCULATOR Now Online | PROWHEELBUILDER


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I got my AM rims today and they look awesome!!! They came out lighter than the listed weight too!!! 350 on one rim and 360 on the other. I'm going to use the lighter one on the front. The spokes and nipples are not in yet, but I'll post new pics when they are built. I'm using Hope Pro2 EVO's (red) with ceramic bearings and DT SuperComp spokes with alloy nipples, (also red). I can't wait until they're done!:cornut:


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## gmats (Apr 15, 2005)

Sweet!! Can't wait to see them built up.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

gmats said:


> Sweet!! Can't wait to see them built up.


Me either Grant!!! Hopefully the spokes and nipples will arrive soon so they get done. How much spoke tension did you use on yours? How was Sat & Sun rides in Kern and how was the Turner?


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

Thought I'd share some very quick findings.

33mm AM rims laced with DT supercomps onto Hope Pro 2 142
Bike is an Ibis HD. 43 Yrs old rider 185lb

Have been watching the carbon wheel threads with interest for some time esp the light bicycle variety. Recently they have brought out a 30mm one in an all mountain form. Plumped for one of these to try out on the rear as I had a hope hub sitting around.
Got it pro built, looks amazing. Will get some pixx up later. Weight wise, no saving over an Easton Havoc rear at all. Almost identical, so not in it for the weight savings.

Ten mins in, crack! First ride. Running tubeless, generous pressure, not soft. Must have come down onto a rock but it was in a section I have never really thought twice about. Tyre stayed up, some sealant had come out and you can feel a bulge in the bead/top of side wall.
Dissappointed. Yet to hear back from LB. Hopefully get a replacement to see if I was just unlucky. Not sure if I have a structural issue or not.

Anyhow my 2c. Not sure about carbon where there are rocky trails. I am glad I didn't plump for Enves (although they may be tougher)
I am willing to try another if they will replace it but I will be out on build costs again.
At this stage I would say avoid the chinese rims esp if you have rocky trails


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

How much pressure were you running? You may have had too much pressure. They don't recommend more than 40psi. Either way, they have a 1 year warranty so you should be fine. Also there have been a bunch of people riding these rims with no issues including downhill racers, (Michelle Pederson won the US Nationals DH on them this year, 650B carbon wheels for Downhill Nationals Light-Bicycle) so I would still think they're ok. Every company has parts that fail from time to time, doesn't mean there all bad. Not to mention that Light Bikes probably makes most of the carbon rims for the other brands out there.:thumbsup:


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

nzl62 said:


> Thought I'd share some very quick findings.
> 
> 33mm AM rims laced with DT supercomps onto Hope Pro 2 142
> Bike is an Ibis HD. 43 Yrs old rider 185lb
> ...


33mm width is their new version, not the 30mm. If you ride some pretty rough and rocky terrain you should opt for the reinforced version, too.


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

My bad, 33m AM. Maybe the extra width allows impacts to hit the rim a bit more directly due to less sidewall foldover


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Weight wise, no saving over an Easton Havoc rear at all. Almost identical, so not in it for the weight savings.

Really? That doesn't seem right. The havoc wheel set comes in at 1875g according to MTBR. Mine are not built yet, but I'm gonna take a guess and say that mine with the same hubs and spokes that you used will be a pound lighter. I'll post pics and weights when they are done to verify.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

I was concerned when I read that as well. I also run the 2011 Havoc up front and 2012 Havoc out back, thought I'd easily save some weight by going carbon. I do know that I went from 28-spoke to 32-spoke by going LB. Either way, I'll have a great spare set of wheels in case one breaks.


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

Yep

Havocs are 1750 claimed.
LB wider 33mm am rim on Hope Pro 2, DT supercomp spokes, strips, etc were almost identical. Measurements by bike shop not verified by me. I was surprised and dissapointed a bit too
LB build has 8 more spokes and nipples, plus rim tape whereas Havoc has only 24 spokes, and are tubeless ready
Certainly don't be buying them for a weight saving.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Well the rims alone are 350, 380, or 430g depending what you get. Hope rear hubs are kinda heavy at over 300g. AmClassic and DT 240 are lighter. I don't knowbabout Supercomps but when I'm building a wheel for weight I use DT Aerolites. I know DT Comps add 50g per wheel over Aerolites. Gorilla tape adds 20+g while NoTubes is about 7g and you can skip tape all together with the undrilled DH rim. With different versions of the AM and DH rims on 142, 157, 20, and 15mm hubs I've built wheelsets ranging from 1400-1600g.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I think I remember weighing my set in at 1588gm after build. It consisted of:

LB AM "wider" rims @ about 390gm each (older 30mm wide version)
Hope Pro 2 Evo hubs front (15qr) rear (142mm)
Dt Comp double-butted spokes
Alu nipples

respectable weight. sturdy. stiff. all around good.


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

I am going to try to get a CU pic today. Hard to see the damage as it is under a decal but when you run your finger over the area you can feel a bulge.
I didn't verify my weight and I have no definitive info as to exactly what version of the 33mm rim I got.
LB want a serial number but thats a massive pain as it means taking it all apart and rim is actually holding air.
The frustration is really that I was running a reasonable solid tyre HR2 2.30TR at 40psi ans still managed to incur damage when rolling through a rock garden. Whatwould have happened at 28/30psi that I normally run I shudder to think.
On the 27.5 carbon rim thread a similar thing happened and the rim was warrantied.
Bike shop not ruling out manufacturing issue as they don't believe this should happen without landing a biggish jump onto a rock


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

nzl62 said:


> I am going to try to get a CU pic today. Hard to see the damage as it is under a decal but when you run your finger over the area you can feel a bulge.
> I didn't verify my weight and I have no definitive info as to exactly what version of the 33mm rim I got.
> LB want a serial number but thats a massive pain as it means taking it all apart and rim is actually holding air.
> The frustration is really that I was running a reasonable solid tyre HR2 2.30TR at 40psi ans still managed to incur damage when rolling through a rock garden. Whatwould have happened at 28/30psi that I normally run I shudder to think.
> ...


Considering LB doesn't recommend more than 40psi, and you were running 40psi, (the limit of what they recommend) and the bulge is out as opposed to a dent inward, it's probably from too much pressure, not a hit from a rock garden. The hits in the rock garden basically add more pressure to the tire, over loading the sidewall causing it to buckle outwards. I think if you ran 28-30psi it probably would not have happened. Unless your riding on a paved road, 40psi is too high for offroad. Either way, I'm sure they will warranty it so you should be ok.:thumbsup:


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> Considering LB doesn't recommend more than 40psi, and you were running 40psi, (the limit of what they recommend) and the bulge is out as opposed to a dent inward, it's probably from too much pressure, not a hit from a rock garden. The hits in the rock garden basically add more pressure to the tire, over loading the sidewall causing it to buckle outwards. I think if you ran 28-30psi it probably would not have happened. Unless your riding on a paved road, 40psi is too high for offroad. Either way, I'm sure they will warranty it so you should be ok.:thumbsup:


40psi running tubeless sounds insanely high. Like, _really_ high. I get to about 26psi on my current setup and those wheels are rock hard. Maybe see if you can get their reinforced 33mm wheel to run that psi if that's what you really want to run at.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

nzl62 said:


> I am going to try to get a CU pic today. Hard to see the damage as it is under a decal but when you run your finger over the area you can feel a bulge.
> I didn't verify my weight and I have no definitive info as to exactly what version of the 33mm rim I got.
> LB want a serial number but thats a massive pain as it means taking it all apart and rim is actually holding air.
> The frustration is really that I was running a reasonable solid tyre HR2 2.30TR at 40psi ans still managed to incur damage when rolling through a rock garden. Whatwould have happened at 28/30psi that I normally run I shudder to think.
> ...


Chris, I think your quote was meant for nz162above. You quoted my response to him. I agree 40 is way to high for offroad. I think that's probably what caused his crack/bulge.



chrisingrassia said:


> 40psi running tubeless sounds insanely high. Like, _really_ high. I get to about 26psi on my current setup and those wheels are rock hard. Maybe see if you can get their reinforced 33mm wheel to run that psi if that's what you really want to run at.


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## Squib38 (Apr 8, 2008)

Ok guys, I just build up a set of the new 26" 33mm rims to I9 hubs. Build came out great at 1495 grams. Now the problem. I can't for the life of me get any tire in my garage to mount on these rims. 2.3 Butcher, 2.35 El Mocco, 2.1 Small Block, etc etc. The beads are so damn tight that I have to use a lever to just get the first bead on. The second bead has been impossible so far. I'm afraid to use too much leverage on a plastic rim but I have never had trouble like this mounting a tire. Suggestions?


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> 40psi running tubeless sounds insanely high. Like, _really_ high. I get to about 26psi on my current setup and those wheels are rock hard. Maybe see if you can get their reinforced 33mm wheel to run that psi if that's what you really want to run at.


I picked up the wheel from bike shop and ran out, late for wednesday night ride.
I thought this may have been the case too but I wanted to be safe on first outing. 40psi is well within the max specified by light bicycle of 70!!! wtf
Anyhow I am assured by the bike shop that running around the local trails at 40psi would be no issue and if I have blown the sidewall out then it most probably is a warranty issue
Normally i run 28/30 rear and 26/28 front


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Anyone know how to delete a post you messed up? I tried to delete this post but I can't figure out how.:madman:


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Squib38 said:


> Ok guys, I just build up a set of the new 26" 33mm rims to I9 hubs. Build came out great at 1495 grams. Now the problem. I can't for the life of me get any tire in my garage to mount on these rims. 2.3 Butcher, 2.35 El Mocco, 2.1 Small Block, etc etc. The beads are so damn tight that I have to use a lever to just get the first bead on. The second bead has been impossible so far. I'm afraid to use too much leverage on a plastic rim but I have never had trouble like this mounting a tire. Suggestions?


Damn, that's weird. Nice and light for an AM wheel set though. Mine are not built yet so I have not tried any tires on them yet. Are you sure it's not a 27.5 rim? You could try setting the tires out in the sun so they warm up. That should expand them a little and make them more plyable. Have you measured the rims? If they are too big, I'd email LB and see what they say. Good luck.:thumbsup:


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Squib38 said:


> Ok guys, I just build up a set of the new 26" 33mm rims to I9 hubs. Build came out great at 1495 grams. Now the problem. I can't for the life of me get any tire in my garage to mount on these rims. 2.3 Butcher, 2.35 El Mocco, 2.1 Small Block, etc etc. The beads are so damn tight that I have to use a lever to just get the first bead on. The second bead has been impossible so far. I'm afraid to use too much leverage on a plastic rim but I have never had trouble like this mounting a tire. Suggestions?


Huh, on the same rim I can mount 2.7" DHF double plys and 2.5" DHF EXOs by hand. Our rims came out of the same mold.


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## Squib38 (Apr 8, 2008)

Well, I finally got tires mounted after more lever work than I have ever done. A bit scary not knowing how much those rims can take. Used plastic levers hoping the levers would break first, haha. Unmounting was also quite the ordeal as the bead is so ridiculously tight. I improved the unmounting by changing from gorilla tape at the full rim width to just wide enough for the center channel. I would imagine that a thinner stan's yellow or similar would be better but I didn't have any on hand.


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

So got my wheels built up, between the rims and dropping to 2.3 tires from 2.4s, I lost 1.9 pounds! Very noticeable! Still dialing in the tire pressues, but wondering if anyone had found the cornering knobs on their tires more inboard on the wider rims? I like to corner agressively and ride the rear wheel thru turns, but feel like the side lugs dont engage like im used to. Overall, very happy w/the changes.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Gravitythief76 said:


> So got my wheels built up, between the rims and dropping to 2.3 tires from 2.4s, I lost 1.9 pounds! Very noticeable! Still dialing in the tire pressues, but wondering if anyone had found the cornering knobs on their tires more inboard on the wider rims? I like to corner agressively and ride the rear wheel thru turns, but feel like the side lugs dont engage like im used to. Overall, very happy w/the changes.


What tires are you using? The tire will have a flatter profile with a wider rim, but that means more contact patch so better grip overall. If you are using a tire with aggressive side knobs, I think you'll be fine, you will just use more of the side knobs than before. I like a 2.35 Nevigal front and rear or a 2.5 Minion up front with a 2.35 out back. Both have good side bite.:thumbsup:


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

Squib38 said:


> Ok guys, I just build up a set of the new 26" 33mm rims to I9 hubs. Build came out great at 1495 grams. Now the problem. I can't for the life of me get any tire in my garage to mount on these rims. 2.3 Butcher, 2.35 El Mocco, 2.1 Small Block, etc etc. The beads are so damn tight that I have to use a lever to just get the first bead on. The second bead has been impossible so far. I'm afraid to use too much leverage on a plastic rim but I have never had trouble like this mounting a tire. Suggestions?


I also had a pretty hard time getting some 2.35 Schwalbe HD tires on these rims - maybe not as difficult as you describe, but definitely the hardest rims I've ever mounted. I did measure mine at almost 26.5", whereas my Stan's Flow rims were exactly 26". Watch the online Stan's video and he has some tips for mounting up tires that really helps.

The flip-side to this is that I have not had a single issue with burping, beading coming loose, or even losing a single particle of air since I mounted them a couple months ago & I have been riding the hell out of them - including hucking big drops and jumps. As awesome as they were, I cannot say the same for the Stan's rims.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

Gravitythief76 said:


> So got my wheels built up, between the rims and dropping to 2.3 tires from 2.4s, I lost 1.9 pounds! Very noticeable! Still dialing in the tire pressues, but wondering if anyone had found the cornering knobs on their tires more inboard on the wider rims? I like to corner agressively and ride the rear wheel thru turns, but feel like the side lugs dont engage like im used to. Overall, very happy w/the changes.


What's the specs on your build?


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

*Before after*



yeti575inCA said:


> What's the specs on your build?


Old build: hope pro 2, dt ex5.1 rims, dt comps, alloy nips, dt rubber rimstrip tubeless kit, specialized purg armadillo elite 2.4 f/r.

New setup: same hubs, lb am 33mm rims, wheelsmith db spokes, stans yellowtape, ac valves, alloy nips, specialized purg 2.3 control front, specialized ground control 2.3 rear.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

I wll try to post some pictures later but I just got my rims back from Red Barn all built up. I got the 33mm wider rims and I asked them to be built up to 400grams and one was 400 and the other was 401. I had Chad build them up with Sapim Cx ray spokes, Brass niples and DT Swiss 240 hubs. 20mm frnt 12-142 rear. Total weight he said was 1550 but I never got a picture of that. I am putting on some mountain king II's the 2.2's so overall I should have a weight savings of 750grams compared to my old rims and tires. I cannnot wait to try them this weekend!


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

thanks Gravity...i am debating to build some up on DT 240's vs my current 2013 Haven alum wheelset


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

yeti575inCA said:


> thanks Gravity...i am debating to build some up on DT 240's vs my current 2013 Haven alum wheelset


I can't believe you even have to think about that one...


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

mattsavage said:


> I can't believe you even have to think about that one...


I dont know how much weight savings there would be since I couldnt find published weight for a haven wheelset. I could only find rim only weight specs.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

yeti575inCA said:


> I dont know how much weight savings there would be since I couldnt find published weight for a haven wheelset. I could only find rim only weight specs.


26 Inch Bike Wheels and Wheel Sets by Easton Cycling 1650 grams.

Weight is just one factor to consider...

Wheel Weight Calculator - Wheelbuilder.com

Just select a rim that has a similar weight for the carbon build.


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## Dagonger (Dec 8, 2011)

thanks matt


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Just picked mine up from the local shop to get tensioned and trued.

These guys had pretty much nothing but $hit to say about carbon wheels. $hit to say about Hope hubs. $hit to say about straight gauge spokes. $hit to say about not having my rim bed spoke holes drilled.

Let's hope these bad boys stay good for years so that I don't need to go back there. Tried to support the local bike shop instead of the corporate chain, won't make that mistake next time.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

chrisingrassia said:


> Just picked mine up from the local shop to get tensioned and trued.
> 
> These guys had pretty much nothing but $hit to say about carbon wheels. $hit to say about Hope hubs. $hit to say about straight gauge spokes. $hit to say about not having my rim bed spoke holes drilled.
> 
> Let's hope these bad boys stay good for years so that I don't need to go back there. Tried to support the local bike shop instead of the corporate chain, won't make that mistake next time.


Good grief... Yeah, I'll save the LBS rant for another thread...


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> Just picked mine up from the local shop to get tensioned and trued.
> 
> These guys had pretty much nothing but $hit to say about carbon wheels. $hit to say about Hope hubs. $hit to say about straight gauge spokes. $hit to say about not having my rim bed spoke holes drilled.
> 
> ...


They sound like a bunch of douche bags. I wouldn't go back there either. I can't see a shop with an attitude like that staying in business for very long. Why would you talk **** about what a customer has? They obviously have no idea what they are talking about. BTW, your wheels look awesome.:thumbsup:


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Just picked mine up from the local shop to get tensioned and trued.
> 
> These guys had pretty much nothing but $hit to say about carbon wheels. $hit to say about Hope hubs. $hit to say about straight gauge spokes. $hit to say about not having my rim bed spoke holes drilled.
> 
> ...


So wait let me get this straight - you bought from another source and they made less $$ and now they are acting all pissy about it? Big shocker!

Don't worry - I have the exact same wheels / hubs and they are amazing - guarantee better than anything they sell if they are anti-carbon. Those hubs kick a$$ and your wheelset looks sweet!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

mattsavage said:


> Good grief... Yeah, I'll save the LBS rant for another thread...





Shredman69 said:


> They sound like a bunch of douche bags. I wouldn't go back there either. I can't see a shop with an attitude like that staying in business for very long. Why would you talk **** about what a customer has? They obviously have no idea what they are talking about. BTW, your wheels look awesome.:thumbsup:





skyno said:


> So wait let me get this straight - you bought from another source and they made less $$ and now they are acting all pissy about it? Big shocker!
> 
> Don't worry - I have the exact same wheels / hubs and they are amazing - guarantee better than anything they sell if they are anti-carbon. Those hubs kick a$$ and your wheelset looks sweet!


Yeah I felt like I was constantly having to defend the rims, the hubs, the spokes, no spoke holes, etc. In fact, the very first thing the guy said to me was "who makes these?" "Light Bicycle makes them." "Wow, they're so ashamed at their product they don't even put their name on them" (as he points to some Enve wheels on a display bike). Pretty frustrated with my experience. Reminded me of that How to be A Mountain Biker video -- "choose a wheelset and size and be a douchebag about it." They were snobs.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> Yeah I felt like I was constantly having to defend the rims, the hubs, the spokes, no spoke holes, etc. In fact, the very first thing the guy said to me was "who makes these?" "Light Bicycle makes them." "Wow, they're so ashamed at their product they don't even put their name on them" (as he points to some Enve wheels on a display bike). Pretty frustrated with my experience. Reminded me of that How to be A Mountain Biker video -- "choose a wheelset and size and be a douchebag about it." They were snobs.


So they were trashing the concept of carbon wheels while they had Enve's on display? I would not have been able to bite my tongue & would have had to make a smart-a$$ remark. Lame.


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Yeah I felt like I was constantly having to defend the rims, the hubs, the spokes, no spoke holes, etc. In fact, the very first thing the guy said to me was "who makes these?" "Light Bicycle makes them." "Wow, they're so ashamed at their product they don't even put their name on them" (as he points to some Enve wheels on a display bike). Pretty frustrated with my experience. Reminded me of that How to be A Mountain Biker video -- "choose a wheelset and size and be a douchebag about it." They were snobs.


Makes no sense about complaining about the hubs either - Hopes are an amazing hub.

I can understand the complaining about no spoke holes - that is a pain in the arse to thread the nipples. But you are the customer, so you are right.

I would be using a new LBS in the future....


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

LBSs in general are not into the China direct stuff on the basis that they'll never make money from it and the stuff they sell is supposedly better and you get what you pay for. Enjoy the performance of these wheels but don't bother trying to convert people, especially people within the industry.

I build LB wheels for myself and friends but don't talk about them while at work as an LBS mechanic. I'm well aware that what I use is better than anything we sell. I've seen tons of problems with wheels from Easton, Specialized, and Mavic yet all my LB wheels have been faultless except for one brass nipple I broke. It was easily replaced since my wheels don't use proprietary parts. Too bad it wasn't that easy for the Easton using racer I tried to help out at Xterra World Championships.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

After 18 months of weekly riding, my front rim finally cracked. I realized it this morning before my ride, and I still rode with it, albeit gingerly. My best guess is that I rode too low pressure on the front tire (guessing 18-22), and it cracked on a rock (rode in the Sierra last w-e). Should I spring for the 33mm rim or try something else than L-B? 175# ready to ride w-e warrior on a Carbine. Rear wheel seems to be holding up just fine... so far.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Picture of damage

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

zorg said:


> Picture of damage
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


This is one reason I'm a bit shy about buying carbon rims. The trails I ride have too many rocks. Loose rock over hardpack, loose rock over rock, loose rock over loose rock, rock over rock etc, etc.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> LBSs in general are not into the China direct stuff on the basis that they'll never make money from it and the stuff they sell is supposedly better and you get what you pay for. Enjoy the performance of these wheels but don't bother trying to convert people, especially people within the industry.
> 
> I build LB wheels for myself and friends but don't talk about them while at work as an LBS mechanic. I'm well aware that what I use is better than anything we sell. I've seen tons of problems with wheels from Easton, Specialized, and Mavic yet all my LB wheels have been faultless except for one brass nipple I broke. It was easily replaced since my wheels don't use proprietary parts. Too bad it wasn't that easy for the Easton using racer I tried to help out at Xterra World Championships.


A LBS can easily make money on these Chinese rims, they just have to place a big enough order and ship bulk by ship. The problem is LB does not have an export licence and no bike shop in their right mind is going to take the risk. LB does not have any liability Insurance, they do not manufacturer either......so try and find the manufacturer....


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

chrisingrassia said:


> Yeah I felt like I was constantly having to defend the rims, the hubs, the spokes, no spoke holes, etc. In fact, the very first thing the guy said to me was "who makes these?" "Light Bicycle makes them." "Wow, they're so ashamed at their product they don't even put their name on them" (as he points to some Enve wheels on a display bike). Pretty frustrated with my experience. Reminded me of that How to be A Mountain Biker video -- "choose a wheelset and size and be a douchebag about it." They were snobs.


What did you pay in labor costs?


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## Fix the Spade (Aug 4, 2008)

skyno said:


> So wait let me get this straight - you bought from another source and they made less $$ and now they are acting all pissy about it? Big shocker!


They got some business, something they won't be getting again.

They could have had several years worth of re-visits for small parts, repairs, re-truing, as opposed to nothing. We live in the age of the internet, people buy stuff off it, it's a free market and as a shop you cannot afford to get pissy with people about where and who they buy stuff from. You need them to come back a lot more than they need you to stay in business.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

I find this a very interesting thread.....I sell a lot of building materials in Florida and the Caribbean. The sales per transaction can range from $100k to $500. Many times it is much easier to sell the big job than it is the small one. I had one customer try to bargain me down on a small job this weekend that I was only going to make $500 on a $4,000 job. It came to the point where I almost told him to FU_K off. It was just not worth my trouble. So sometimes, it really is not worth the hassle to go after the smaller jobs.

Here is another interesting point...I had a conversation with a bike shop owner and he said that the guys that shop on the internet are small in numbers compared to the customer that come into his store to buy a complete wheel set. I am inclined to believe him because I don't see ENVE being sold on the internet and they just increased their manufacturing space. There is also a back order on their carbon products. Somebody must be buying them.....


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

YaMon said:


> I find this a very interesting thread.....I sell a lot of building materials in Florida and the Caribbean. The sales per transaction can range from $100k to $500. Many times it is much easier to sell the big job than it is the small one. I had one customer try to bargain me down on a small job this weekend that I was only going to make $500 on a $4,000 job. It came to the point where I almost told him to FU_K off. It was just not worth my trouble. So sometimes, it really is not worth the hassle to go after the smaller jobs.
> 
> Here is another interesting point...I had a conversation with a bike shop owner and he said that the guys that shop on the internet are small in numbers compared to the customer that come into his store to buy a complete wheel set. I am inclined to believe him because I don't see ENVE being sold on the internet and they just increased their manufacturing space. There is also a back order on their carbon products. Somebody must be buying them.....


I am sure this is all true and obviously a lot of folks are buying Enve products as I see a lot more of those on the trail than the Chinese stuff. They make amazing products but you pay 3x the price.

Especially for those of us who like to do a lot of our own wrenching and like to tinker, it is great that we have less expensive options and can make sure the job is done when & how we want, and can also fix stuff on the trail and not have our bikes be out of commission for weeks.

I buy plenty of stuff from my LBS and they are a great, well-stocked shop, but much of the time they have to order the parts for me anyways, so may as well have it shipped direct to me.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

skyno said:


> I am sure this is all true and obviously a lot of folks are buying Enve products as I see a lot more of those on the trail than the Chinese stuff. They make amazing products but you pay 3x the price.
> 
> Especially for those of us who like to do a lot of our own wrenching and like to tinker, it is great that we have less expensive options and can make sure the job is done when & how we want, and can also fix stuff on the trail and not have our bikes be out of commission for weeks.
> 
> I buy plenty of stuff from my LBS and they are a great, well-stocked shop, but much of the time they have to order the parts for me anyways, so may as well have it shipped direct to me.


I hear you loud and clear....but the facts are most people don't wrench their own bikes. They will go into a bike shop and get their tires replaced. If I were going to sell carbon rims, I would focus on the bike shop markets. Yes, I would have a website, but the main point would be service, warranty, quick delivery, better quality, USA. I would never fight the Chinese over price, you would lose.

Look at the amount of new Carbon fiber manufacturers popping up. They even have guys copying the LB website. Eventually they are going to get into a price war and start reducing quality to lower their price. You won't know who is good and who is bad. They will start cutting corners till their market implodes.....you heard it here.


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

YaMon said:


> Look at the amount of new Carbon fiber manufacturers popping up. They even have guys copying the LB website. Eventually they are going to get into a price war and start reducing quality to lower their price. You won't know who is good and who is bad. They will start cutting corners till their market implodes.....you heard it here.


I see your point, but I dont agree with it. I think that cutting corners to make a cheap product to sell in mass would be a short term success and would only work on the early adopters portion of the market. With everyone sharing their experiences on the internet the company that puts out an inferior product isnt going to last long.

What these companies probably arent doing, and what allows them to put out a product with a cheaper price, is probably proper R and D.

Im new to the carbon rim world and since Ive started reading and seeing what they are doing to get to a point of manufacturing a good quality rim is to price it at a point where the average guy can purchase it with minimal risk. By doing this the average joe will ride them, and then break them allowing the early adopters of their product to be the testers. The company then, through excellent customer service gives them a new rim at no cost, and the user again goes back to riding their product furthering the testing process.

Eventually the rims and components will be of a high quality level. It just may take time to get there. When it does become good quality though, we will see if the price stays low or if it gets multiplied by 3 times.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

A_street said:


> I see your point, but I dont agree with it. I think that cutting corners to make a cheap product to sell in mass would be a short term success and would only work on the early adopters portion of the market. With everyone sharing their experiences on the internet the company that puts out an inferior product isnt going to last long.
> 
> What these companies probably arent doing, and what allows them to put out a product with a cheaper price, is probably proper R and D.
> 
> ...


I wish I did not know what I am talking about, I am Asian and do business with Taiwan and China and have seen this play out before. They are not about making a quality product, they are about selling cheap.....that is it, that is the formula. If you buy, they will manufacture. The competition will start to reduce the price to get everyones attention, but it will come with a cost, they do not look at long term. Trust me on this.

You can already see the competition popping up, they are copying each others website now. They know their customers are price driven and that is what they will focus on.

When the market blows up, they will move on to something else. Remember, they don't even ride, these manufacturers are listening to what people are asking for and producing it. I think these wide rims are going to be a flop because the target market is too small, this will cost them money and they will not like that.

That being said, I hope Derby sells a lot of 40mm rims. He put his heart and development out there and should benefit from it.


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## A_street (Apr 16, 2013)

Well I have nothing to reply back with except that is a stupid mindset to fall into. I find it hard to fathom how one could want to purposely fail in a business endeavor just to make money. The possibilities of more money come with success. You may be right though...


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

A_street said:


> Well I have nothing to reply back with except that is a stupid mindset to fall into. I find it hard to fathom how one could want to purposely fail in a business endeavor just to make money. The possibilities of more money come with success. You may be right though...


Well...this is only my opinion. But like I said, I have seen it happen before. Think of it this way, LB entered the market first. Others noticed what was happening and jumped on the wagon. This competition will continue to increase till the market is saturated. And it will be because most people are risk averse and will not order anything from China. When that point in time arrives is when all hell breaks loose and they start fighting for market share. They believe in the low price strategy......

Here are 2 examples of what I am saying. They will charge back the Paypal fees to you instead of including in their price, this makes their price look lower. They will also put you at risk by shipping to you with an undervalued invoice ( I know, I have said this many times). You have to understand why they do this.....TO GET THE PRODUCT AT THE LOWEST PRICE. End game......


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

I have to agree with YaMon on this one. You've got to ask yourself why there are no brand names in Chinese manufacturing? The answer is because of what YaMon is talking about. Anyone else manufacturing carbon rims would look to building their brand and with it some long term success.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

TigWorld said:


> I have to agree with YaMon on this one. You've got to ask yourself why there are no brand names in Chinese manufacturing? The answer is because of what YaMon is talking about. Anyone else manufacturing carbon rims would look to building their brand and with it some long term success.


Isn't that what light bicycle is trying to do?


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## nzl62 (Jul 28, 2007)

My AM rim update. Lightbicycle are replacing the rim for me but I pay shipping. I'll need to pay to get it rebuilt of course or may attempt my first wheel build ever :0

But I have to say that once I supplied the image of the crack plus the serial number they got back to me straight away. Rim sill holds are tubelessly so I may continue to run this wheel as an experiment to see how it lasts even though it is cracked. Looking at the rim bed there is no evidence that I will suffer a structural failure but it may allow me to play with tyre pressures to see what is optimum for safety and reliability


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

sclyde2 said:


> Isn't that what light bicycle is trying to do?


Yes, they are but it cannot be built via Internet sales. It has to be done via bike shop sales or distribution through a USA distributor. Here is why....most people will not take the chance to order from China. Many people also want to see, feel and demo.

If LB sells to a bike shop, they will require a minimum of 30 percent markup. The other thing is they are not like an individual buying a set of rims and risking injury. That is your personal decision. The bike shop is liable if anyone breaks and crashes the rims, they will never take on the risk of product liability. Many name brands carry their own product liability insurance.

Even if LB decides to distribute through a USA company, it will incurr significant costs ( salary, warehouse, duty because they will not be able to get away with it now).


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

sclyde2 said:


> Isn't that what light bicycle is trying to do?


Sorry everyone, didn't mean to start yet another discussion on Chinese vs. Name brand. My bike shop just assumed that my carbon wheels were garbage bc they didn't carry a $3k Enve logo....even though LB DOES sell their wheels with their brand name and I just chose to not have that on my wheels (which is a personal preference for me as I don't buy name brand and don't advertise for free, but that's for another thread). I don't believe all Chinese mftrs don't care about quality; Nancy alone would keep me going back as long as the wheels stand the test of time. She was terrific, I don't think anyone on this whole thread had one negative thingto say about her. That's how you treat a customer.

@mattsavage: paid $60, one week to finish, no call to tell me they were done
@Fix: completely correct. I'm no wrenchhead. Would have gone back regularly for tuning, truing, maintenance, repairs etc. But he was a dick, so forget it.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> Sorry everyone, didn't mean to start yet another discussion on Chinese vs. Name brand. My bike shop just assumed that my carbon wheels were garbage bc they didn't carry a $3k Enve logo....even though LB DOES sell their wheels with their brand name and I just chose to not have that on my wheels (which is a personal preference for me as I don't buy name brand and don't advertise for free, but that's for another thread). I don't believe all Chinese mftrs don't care about quality; Nancy alone would keep me going back as long as the wheels stand the test of time. She was terrific, I don't think anyone on this whole thread had one negative thingto say about her. That's how you treat a customer.
> 
> @mattsavage: paid $60, one week to finish, no call to tell me they were done
> @Fix: completely correct. I'm no wrenchhead. Would have gone back regularly for tuning, truing, maintenance, repairs etc. But he was a dick, so forget it.


The bottom line is customer service. Doesn't matter if its online, local bike shop, American or Chinese. People will continue to do business where they are treated right.

YaMon, Most branded company's have their product made for them by companies, like Light Bicycles. And most of these companies nowadays are Chinese companies. Obviously they want a profit, but to get repeat business, they have to have a good product along with good customer service, and so far they have proven themselves. By selling direct to the customer, they are able to save the customer a ton of money by cutting out the middle man who jacks up the price to make a huge profit. I prefer to buy American, but when the wheels from a brand name are 3-4 times as much and they are of comparable quality, that's a no brainier, I'll take the Chinese wheel every time.:thumbsup:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Shredman69 said:


> The bottom line is customer service. Doesn't matter if its online, local bike shop, American or Chinese. People will continue to do business where they are treated right.
> 
> YaMon, Most branded company's have their product made for them by companies, like Light Bicycles. And most of these companies nowadays are Chinese companies. Obviously they want a profit, but to get repeat business, they have to have a good product along with good customer service, and so far they have proven themselves. By selling direct to the customer, they are able to save the customer a ton of money by cutting out the middle man who jacks up the price to make a huge profit. I prefer to buy American, but when the wheels from a brand name are 3-4 times as much and they are of comparable quality, that's a no brainier, I'll take the Chinese wheel every time.:thumbsup:


I know what you are both saying......the game is still early and new guys are coming to the market. They are going to drive the price down even more. Light Bicycle is going to try and drop their prices to compete as well....but it will eventually come at a cost. I know what I am saying I have seen this before. Light Bicycle is NOT a manufacturer, to them this is just merely a commodity. They also do hockey sticks and other sporting goods. There are other trading companies buying from the same manufacturer. Let's see how this plays out....

It is going to get even harder now because Paypal has told them they cannot charge back the fees separately, so you will see a 3.5% increase in price soon. PeterQ got banned because of Spamming and he does not realize it yet, but if he goes legit, the price of advertising is going to floor him.

The main reason the products are not being distributed by LBS is because of the Product Liability issue. You could easily sell a pair of LB rims for $450 vs. $400 by ordering a lot and saving on the shipping.....you could even sell for the same $400 if you wanted, but personally I think there should be a premium for getting it faster and warranty service in the USA.


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## Collins (Feb 23, 2013)

There *are* brand names in Chinese mnfing... But LB can't put something like "Broval" stickers on there, can they...?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

*My new wheels.*

Ok, so my local bike shop called and said my wheels were almost done. They were built, but just not tensioned yet. So I stopped by to check them out and while I was there I weighed them. LB 26" 33 wide, Hope Pro2 EVO hubs with ceramic bearings, DT Supercomp spokes, 32 each and DT alloy Nipples. The front wheel weighed in at 690 grams and the rear came in at 830 for a total of 1520 for the set, not too shabby for an AM wheelset.:thumbsup:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Collins said:


> There *are* brand names in Chinese mnfing... But LB can't put something like "Broval" stickers on there, can they...?


How about ENVY...Y9...REYNOLDO...


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> Ok, so my local bike shop called and said my wheels were almost done. They were built, but just not tensioned yet. So I stopped by to check them out and while I was there I weighed them. LB 26" 33 wide, Hope Pro2 EVO hubs with ceramic bearings, DT Supercomp spokes, 32 each and DT alloy Nipples. The front wheel weighed in at 690 grams and the rear came in at 830 for a total of 1530 for the set, not too shabby for an AM wheelset.:thumbsup:


Those red hubs and nipples are tits. No pun intended.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> Those red hubs and nipples are tits. No pun intended.


LMAO!!! Thnks. I'll post some better pics when I get them home after I get off work tonight.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> The front wheel weighed in at 690 grams and the rear came in at 830 for a total of 1520 for the set, not too shabby for BASICALLY A DH wheelset.:thumbsup:


Fixed it!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

skyno said:


> Fixed it!


Hahahaha, yep. That'll work.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Naomi Kliens No Logo seems to fit the current theme of this thread. Just an example, if LB makes carbon rims for DT Swiss, Easton etc, for a premium price but also makes a no logo rim (lb rim) then why pay the premium? Because our brains have been programmed to think we are not cool unless we have those branded brands. HOWEVER, this is starting to change and this thread (along with all the cheap Chinese clone lights threads) is proof of that. As soon as all the suspension patents expire we will see non branded VPP, DW etc bikes flood the market. 
I think we are at the high point for the price we pay for bikes. It's all downhill from here. Lol. 

2nd point, once 3d printing advances it will no longer be a question of where it was produced or quality as well. You can control the quality yourself depending on the materials you buy. The future looks bright, and cheaper! Maybe this should be a separate thread.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

YaMon said:


> I know what you are both saying......the game is still early and new guys are coming to the market. They are going to drive the price down even more. Light Bicycle is going to try and drop their prices to compete as well....but it will eventually come at a cost. I know what I am saying I have seen this before. Light Bicycle is NOT a manufacturer, to them this is just merely a commodity. They also do hockey sticks and other sporting goods. There are other trading companies buying from the same manufacturer. Let's see how this plays out....


So your prediction is that the quality of Chinese carbon wheels as a whole is going to go down?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Just have to put on some Stan's yellow tape, Fulcrum valve stems and mount these baby's up and ride!!!:thumbsup:


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

beanbag said:


> So your prediction is that the quality of Chinese carbon wheels as a whole is going to go down?


Yes...absolutely. The new guys are trying to break in, they have already spent the money on the molds or if they are traders, they will possibly sell just to get market share. This is not sustainable, the will start looking at ways to cut cost...and/or service. The amount of customers willing to buy direct from china is not infinite....


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Finally ordered my spokes... Even with $29 shipping to Canada from Dans Comp, I'm still at under $1/spoke at least. Should be here in less than a week. Anyway there is no mtb to be done till january since it's all snow and ice and temperature going above and below freezing point leaves the whole city wet and nasty. But at least I'll be able to lace the wheel and adjust the brakes/drivetrain meanwhile.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Ah, just got the package... less than 24 hours after placing the order. And a nice UPS Custom Broker Fee bill... Calling Dans Comp now to let them know about NOT using UPS ever again for International shipping without actually disclaiming which transporter are available... It's kinda sucky to have to pay premium plus not even knowing they used UPS...


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Wheels are laced, now going on the truing stand. What's a good spoke tension for these ? LB says max 180kgf, but that seems extremely high. I was thinking maybe 150kgf top ? For the 30mm wide DH rims.


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

David C said:


> Wheels are laced, now going on the truing stand. What's a good spoke tension for these ? LB says max 180kgf, but that seems extremely high. I was thinking maybe 150kgf top ? For the 30mm wide DH rims.


180kgf is MAX spoke tension it can handle, not recommended....!

100-110 should be plenty in my opinion...


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

mattsavage said:


> 180kgf is MAX spoke tension it can handle, not recommended....!
> 
> 100-110 should be plenty in my opinion...


I agree. That's what I had mine done at. I didn't want any issues with spoke pull through or broken nipples.:thumbsup:


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks. What would be a safe minimum in your opinion ?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

David C said:


> Thanks. What would be a safe minimum in your opinion ?


My local bike shop uses 90 on normal aluminum wheels if that helps. You should be good to go with 100-110.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> My local bike shop uses 90 on normal aluminum wheels if that helps. You should be good to go with 100-110.


Yes, that helps a lot. Thanks.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

No prob.:thumbsup:


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I'm working on decals for my new wheels. To go along with my GT bike. Here's a few sketches.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

The wings look sweet!


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

They look like little princess angel wings.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

beanbag said:


> They look like little princess angel wings.


Haha, yeah they do. I'm working on it. They are the GT wings logo.

Also, got the wheels trued today. Tension on front disc side is around 110-120 and rear drive side is around 120-130. Couldn't eliminate all the radial run-out , but I'm thinking we should get the dial kit for the TS2.2 truing stand one day for that purpose. Still, they are very nice for being this inexpensive and considering I'm the one who built them. 9/10 on personal satisfaction scale.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

David C said:


> Haha, yeah they do. I'm working on it. They are the GT wings logo.
> 
> Also, got the wheels trued today. Tension on front disc side is around 110-120 and rear drive side is around 120-130. Couldn't eliminate all the radial run-out , but I'm thinking we should get the dial kit for the TS2.2 truing stand one day for that purpose. Still, they are very nice for being this inexpensive and considering I'm the one who built them. 9/10 on personal satisfaction scale.


Very cool, but where are the pics??? Show that **** off man!!! Lets see em!:incazzato: Also, what hubs and spokes did u use and what do the wheels weigh?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> Very cool, but where are the pics??? Show that **** off man!!! Lets see em!:incazzato: Also, what hubs and spokes did u use and what do the wheels weigh?


I still haven't had the opportunity to take decent pics, i.e. somewhere without a messy background and with a good camera. I will do as soon as I can.

I used the Novatec D881/D882 hubs, in black with the 9mm and 10mm thru-QR axles. Very stiff and they are so easy to always clamp down to the same tension so you don't mess up the rotor/pads alignment on your brakes. I never felt confident with skinny 5mm skewers holding my wheels. But they are heavy, 211g front and 436g rear, however they can be converted to any existing axle size and also to XX1 driver.

Spokes are Sapim Race double-butted 14g in oxide black. About 360g for 64 spokes total. Heavier than the first supplied Pillar PSR X-TRA bladed spokes which were only 4.3g per spokes, but they were not the right length so I returned them. Would have saved almost 100g right here.

Nipples are 12mm brass, half golf and half black, 60g total instead of 20g for alloy. Corrosion was a big issue, as I'll be ridding these year round and winters are very nasty in here.

Rims are 380g each, drilled 32h and without holes on the rim bed, so no need to tape or seal for tubeless.

Also mounted rear Magura Storm SL 140mm rotor and front Avid HS1 160mm rotor.

Wheels without rotors and skewers are about 1820g total. Not light for a XC bike, but that's because of the heavy 4in1 hubs that will allow me to keep this wheelset around no matter the bikes or if I upgrade my fork to a 15mm axle, etc. The plan is actually to have this set go on my future AM bike and then build a second very lightweight set for my XC bike in a couple years when I'll have the luxury to buy a $2 400 hand-made frame haha


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

David C said:


> I'm working on decals for my new wheels. To go along with my GT bike. Here's a few sketches.


Unless GT is either paying for the wheels, or you are sponsored by them, I dont see why you would spend money advertising for them.

Some other pattern in the blue would go well with your frame though.


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## beanbag (Nov 20, 2005)

For manly wing designs, you might want to took at the honda logo, or various german logos, or various coat-of-arms.


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## lloydo (Nov 8, 2010)

Shredman69 said:


> My local bike shop uses 90 on normal aluminum wheels if that helps. You should be good to go with 100-110.


I'm from aussie land and just wanted to clarify on the 100-110. is that in pounds?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

lloydo said:


> I'm from aussie land and just wanted to clarify on the 100-110. is that in pounds?


LOL, hell no!!! 100-100kgf, (kilogram force). If you did 100-110 foot pounds, that **** would break!


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## Mac_Aravan (Nov 22, 2012)

David C said:


> I used the Novatec D881/D882 hubs, in black with the 9mm and 10mm thru-QR axles. Very stiff and they are so easy to always clamp down to the same tension so you don't mess up the rotor/pads alignment on your brakes. I never felt confident with skinny 5mm skewers holding my wheels. But they are heavy, 211g front and 436g rear, however they can be converted to any existing axle size and also to XX1 driver.
> 
> Spokes are Sapim Race double-butted 14g in oxide black. About 360g for 64 spokes total. Heavier than the first supplied Pillar PSR X-TRA bladed spokes which were only 4.3g per spokes, but they were not the right length so I returned them. Would have saved almost 100g right here.


Change freehub and axle for alloy ones, and you will drop 136g.
15mm front axle is lighter also (but requires matching fork & axle).


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Mac_Aravan said:


> Change freehub and axle for alloy ones, and you will drop 136g.
> 15mm front axle is lighter also (but requires matching fork & axle).


That's an idea. Perhaps later on when I have more bike money to spare.

Also, updates on the decals :


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Hey I'm loving the GT wings, I've been a fan of GT from when I used to race BMX, I rode a GT pro.. that's enough reminiscing..lol

I am just about to order these rim without the internal wall drilling (as per your rims) but I cannot find a convincing 'How to' to fish the nipples into position, can you please advise how you managed this, it would be much appreciated as this would be my first real wheel build.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Muchas said:


> Hey I'm loving the GT wings, I've been a fan of GT from when I used to race BMX, I rode a GT pro.. that's enough reminiscing..lol
> 
> I am just about to order these rim without the internal wall drilling (as per your rims) but I cannot find a convincing 'How to' to fish the nipples into position, can you please advise how you managed this, it would be much appreciated as this would be my first real wheel build.


I used dental floss. Tie 2-3 knots on one end leaving ~1" floss at the end of the knot, and then slide a nipple on the floss. Drop the nipple in the valve hole and basically shake/rattle/roll it until you get all the way to 180 degrees from the valve hole. I fished the 1" floss end through the spoke hole with a thumbtack that I bent slightly at the tip to make a hook. Fish the nipple through the hole, screw in a spoke. Start all over. This will take you *several* hours, so take your time.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

chrisingrassia said:


> I used dental floss. Tie 2-3 knots on one end leaving ~1" floss at the end of the knot, and then slide a nipple on the floss. Drop the nipple in the valve hole and basically shake/rattle/roll it until you get all the way to 180 degrees from the valve hole. I fished the 1" floss end through the spoke hole with a thumbtack that I bent slightly at the tip to make a hook. Fish the nipple through the hole, screw in a spoke. Start all over. This will take you *several* hours, so take your time.


Thanks for the guide, can you tell me if the nipples are a loose fit in the rim holes? The more I think about the non drilled inner wall the more I want it. Was it hard to thread the last nipples onto the spokes with this technic as the spokes need to be within the rim hole as a final position, is it just a case of flexing the spokes enough to engage the nipple threads etc??

I also want to order the Pillar spokes from LB at the same time as I haven't really heard any bad stories unless I am convinced otherwise.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Muchas said:


> Thanks for the guide, can you tell me if the nipples are a loose fit in the rim holes? The more I think about the non drilled inner wall the more I want it. Was it hard to thread the last nipples onto the spokes with this technic as the spokes need to be within the rim hole as a final position, is it just a case of flexing the spokes enough to engage the nipple threads etc??
> 
> I also want to order the Pillar spokes from LB at the same time as I haven't really heard any bad stories unless I am convinced otherwise.


I don't follow what you're asking. You only need to thread the spoke onto a nipple merely to hold the nipple from falling back through the spoke hole. I did all the spokes and nipples FIRST, and then laced the wheel up to the hub one by one.

Maybe I'm confused on your question.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

David C said:


> ..... and without holes on the rim bed, so no need to tape or seal for tubeless.


Has anyone actually run these rims (in any width) tubeless without any rim tape?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

006_007 said:


> Unless GT is either paying for the wheels, or you are sponsored by them, I dont see why you would spend money advertising for them.
> 
> Some other pattern in the blue would go well with your frame though.


For the same reason some people splatters HONDA decals all over their windshields and bumpers. Coz that's what I ride.

And because I can get the decals made for free from a client of mine (as I'm a graphic designer).


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Muchas said:


> Hey I'm loving the GT wings, I've been a fan of GT from when I used to race BMX, I rode a GT pro.. that's enough reminiscing..lol
> 
> I am just about to order these rim without the internal wall drilling (as per your rims) but I cannot find a convincing 'How to' to fish the nipples into position, can you please advise how you managed this, it would be much appreciated as this would be my first real wheel build.


Thanks. Here's a write-up I made in another thread about this. I believe my method to be faster than dental floss, averaging about 1-3 minutes per nipples, the closer to the valve hole, the faster it goes. Although I haven't tried dental floss.



David C said:


> Well to be honest it was more like 6 hours total for both wheels to install the nipples and lace them up.
> 
> You can't really take pictures of how-to, but it's easy to explain. Just take a long derailleur cable with both ends cut clean, then solder the tips so they don't fray. Next you need cable crimps that you will cut open so you can slide them onto the cable and crimp them on and off later. Then you insert the cable trough the farthest spoke hole and push it in till you can see it by the valve hole. Proceed to grab the tip of the cable with needle nose pliers and pull it out off the rim by the valve hole. Pull enough cable so you can slide in a nipple and a crimp and pull everything back to seat the nipple in the hole, making sure the cable will be long enough not to be pulled back into the rim. Next tie a rubber-band around the nipple to prevent it from falling back into the rim. Then pull back the cable till the crimp comes out and remove the crimp by pinching it the opposite way you first pinched it. Then pull the cable back out from the nipple and start over again with the following farthest hole, etc. Also I put some lube on the nipple head before pulling it into the rim so it would lube the nipple seat on the rim. Use silicone or teflon lube on the cable if it doesn't slide easily.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Muchas said:


> I also want to order the Pillar spokes from LB at the same time as I haven't really heard any bad stories unless I am convinced otherwise.


Just make sure they have the exact spoke lengths you'll need in stock before ordering the Pillar spokes. IMO, they are very nice bladed and lightweight spokes at a ridiculous low price. Just do your maths first to get the right length.

Also, I first do all the nipples, then I lace the wheel. Otherwise you're always struggling with loose spokes everywhere. Also remember to use some spoke prep or at least lube on the threads.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

sclyde2 said:


> Has anyone actually run these rims (in any width) tubeless without any rim tape?


That's what I'm about to try tomorrow. I finished studding my winter tires today, so tomorrow I'm gonna mix some sealant and see how it goes. However I actually did a test at first a few weeks ago without sealant and the tire seated very nicely and held air for a few seconds, but since it's not a tubeless ready tire, it wasn't air tight.

I think lelandjt actually already reported running these rims tubeless without any tape on his DH rig.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yup. Derailleur cable for installing nipples because its striffness is useful and no problems running tubeless without tape.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well I said I didn't had any pictures. Not true, I have 2-3 pictures, but none actually showing how-to. Just from the progression.

Here's with the rubber-bands holding the nipples in place.

























It is a whole lot easier to lace the wheel once the nipples are all in place. And if you have the right spoke length, I suggest to screw each newly laced spoke in with about 4-6 threads still visible on the spoke. If you just do 1-2 turns, you risk of having the nipple falling back on the rim because with all the shaking around it can unscrew itself.

You might also have to drill a few of the spoke holes to the right diameter, has there might be some excess layup left inside the rim that will prevent the nipple from either flipping vertical to get in the hole or the hole being slightly too small for the nipple. Use a clean sharp drillbit and gauge each holes to make sure it goes in deep enough and the bore is clean and round.

First thing I'd do before anything else would be to inspect the rim for any irregularities on the outside walls and inside bed, make sure it lays flat and no rough or filled-up resin patch. Then mount a tire on and confirm it seats correctly all around and easily. Also take clear pictures of the serial number, outside and inside of the rim, to have something to compared against if anything goes wrong later. Make sure the portion of the rim where they took out the bladder and installed a plug is solid and allows for enough room inside the rim to run the nipples and doesn't trap the cable.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

David C said:


> Well I said I didn't had any pictures. Not true, I have 2-3 pictures, but none actually showing how-to. Just from the progression.
> 
> Here's with the rubber-bands holding the nipples in place.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks, this is a great help, this pretty much answers one of my earlier questions about nipples in place, (but bear in mind I am a novice)
Your comment on drilling out spoke holes scares me though. Did you find the nipples a snug fit in the rim holes.

Has anyone seen the youtube clip by Fulcrum to replace one of their spokes, they demonstrate how they use a magnet to drag the nipple around the rim to the desired location, then screw in the spoke, took less than 10 seconds!. I'm thinking they must have a generous nipple to rim hole clearance. Hence I'm interested in how the LB rim holes size up.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Well it's official; Im feeling lucky today.

Just mounted my new CST Critter 26x2.1 folding tires (wholesale $15 each, 580g) that I studded with 116 M3x8mm button head class 12.9 steel screws (116 screws adds about 60g to the tire), on my new tubeless carbon rims, using a presta valve from an old tube and the WSS homemade sealant (latex, antifreeze, Slime and water).

Tires seated nicely and sealed up easily. Saved over 200g total on the wheelset from the 2.1 Maxxis tires that I was running with tube.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

The nipples were a close tolerance fit in the holes. No resistance but no slop. This is where the derailleur cable is usefull. if you hold the part coming out the hole vertically then push it a little from the valve hole end it bends inside the rim and orients the nipple vertically so it falls through.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> The nipples were a close tolerance fit in the holes. No resistance but no slop. This is where the derailleur cable is usefull. if you hold the part coming out the hole vertically then push it a little from the valve hole end it bends inside the rim and orients the nipple vertically so it falls through.


Thanks for the tip, I think I'll go for it, I am in no rush so I can take my time over the winter. I will keep you posted when they arrive...;-)

Are people finding that the ERD is correct (within a small tolerance +/- 1mm)


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Mine did from using the 518mm spec, the spokes were right on the money. Either I got lucky or they really are making these new DH rims up to specs.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

Does anyone know if LB is building the older 30mm carbon wheels without a drilled spoke bed?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

macming said:


> Does anyone know if LB is building the older 30mm carbon wheels without a drilled spoke bed?


You mean if they would build up the wheels for you (lace and true) on rims without rim bed holes ?

For what I know, when I was ordering mines, it didn't appeared to be an issue for them to do it this way. Although I wouldn't trust them to do anything too fancy without being able to double-check all the steps yourself.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

Lelandjt said:


> LBSs in general are not into the China direct stuff on the basis that they'll never make money from it and the stuff they sell is supposedly better and you get what you pay for. Enjoy the performance of these wheels but don't bother trying to convert people, especially people within the industry.
> 
> I build LB wheels for myself and friends but don't talk about them while at work as an LBS mechanic. I'm well aware that what I use is better than anything we sell. I've seen tons of problems with wheels from Easton, Specialized, and Mavic yet all my LB wheels have been faultless except for one brass nipple I broke. It was easily replaced since my wheels don't use proprietary parts. Too bad it wasn't that easy for the Easton using racer I tried to help out at Xterra World Championships.


You want to build up my wheels once l get the parts in? Really, l will ship them to you, pay you and whatever else you might want!


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Here's a few shots of mines after the first ride earlier this week. Yes, these are the new 26" 30mm wide DH rims, 380g and 32h, no rim bed holes, all brass 12mm gold and black nipples, black Sapim Race double-butted spokes and Novatec D881/882 hubs with the 9mm and 10mm thru-QR axles (the next best thing to a real thru-axle, since both the fork and frame are standard QR drop-outs). Mounted are CST Critter 26x2.1 folding tires with 116 studs each (only 650g per tire) and using homebrew sealant without rim tape. Wheels are 790g front and 1030g rear, without skewer, and total cost was under $800 (I screwed up on spoke lengths at first and bought alloy nipples that I ended up not needing, but I did all the labor myself).

This is a 2000 GT XCR-3000, and the acceleration is phenomenal, even if the bike is at 30 pounds right now (new parts on their way to change that though) and stock wheelset was a bit heavier too.


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## Atomik Carbon (Jan 4, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> LBSs in general are not into the China direct stuff on the basis that they'll never make money from it and the stuff they sell is supposedly better and you get what you pay for. Enjoy the performance of these wheels but don't bother trying to convert people, especially people within the industry.
> 
> I build LB wheels for myself and friends but don't talk about them while at work as an LBS mechanic. I'm well aware that what I use is better than anything we sell. I've seen tons of problems with wheels from Easton, Specialized, and Mavic yet all my LB wheels have been faultless except for one brass nipple I broke. It was easily replaced since my wheels don't use proprietary parts. Too bad it wasn't that easy for the Easton using racer I tried to help out at Xterra World Championships.


Not trying to be mean...but when you don't have any assets to lose, you can take all the risks that you want.....there is a lot more to why bike shops won't sell these. You can make a profit, but you also need to figure out how to get rid of a lot of them....


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

And that's why our shop hasn't sold any off-brand Asian parts. Being in HI it would be cost effective to get bulk parts from the people you meet at Interbike's Chinatown but the ahop owner doesn't want to deal with liability or warranty hassles. He likes my LB wheelsets but we're doing well selling the Specialized wheelsets that are very similar but more expensive.

Only the 33mm wide "DH" rim is capable of having an undrilled rim bed. The 30mm wide "AM rim doesn't have enough vertical space to flip the nipples.

I don't know of anyones's asked LB to sell one of their complete DH rim wheelsets with undrilled rim beds ie: if LB is willing to do the blind lacing. Whether they'll do that or not and you have to use yellow tape no big deal, their prices are pretty reasonable for built wheels and with the Pillar bladed spokes and DT 240 or Novatec hub choices they have all the options I could ask for so ordering a built wheel from them would be cheaper than sending your parts to me on Maui to be built.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> And that's why our shop hasn't sold any off-brand Asian parts. Being in HI it would be cost effective to get bulk parts from the people you meet at Interbike's Chinatown but the ahop owner doesn't want to deal with liability or warranty hassles. He likes my LB wheelsets but we're doing well selling the Specialized wheelsets that are very similar but more expensive.
> 
> Only the 33mm wide "DH" rim is capable of having an undrilled rim bed. The 30mm wide "AM rim doesn't have enough vertical space to flip the nipples.
> 
> I don't know of anyones's asked LB to sell one of their complete DH rim wheelsets with undrilled rim beds ie: if LB is willing to do the blind lacing. Whether they'll do that or not and you have to use yellow tape no big deal, their prices are pretty reasonable for built wheels and with the Pillar bladed spokes and DT 240 or Novatec hub choices they have all the options I could ask for so ordering a built wheel from them would be cheaper than sending your parts to me on Maui to be built.


Do they do wheel builds with 240s hubs?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Yes. I know the DT 240 is an option.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Okay, I got the 33mm 26" rim with the holes drilled out. My LBS laced the wheel. I put a yellow tape last night, and mounted a tire and tube overnight. Converted them to tubeless today, but I have a leak somewhere that I have to investigate.

Problem: the rim is much deeper than a normal rim and the 35mm valve from Notubes barely sticks out of the rim. I can barely inflate the tire with a regular floor pump.

So, what are others using with the 33mm rim to make them tubeless?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

zorg said:


> Okay, I got the 33mm 26" rim with the holes drilled out. My LBS laced the wheel. I put a yellow tape last night, and mounted a tire and tube overnight. Converted them to tubeless today, but I have a leak somewhere that I have to investigate.
> 
> Problem: the rim is much deeper than a normal rim and the 35mm valve from Notubes barely sticks out of the rim. I can barely inflate the tire with a regular floor pump.
> 
> So, what are others using with the 33mm rim to make them tubeless?


Get the 44 or 42, don't remember which they are, tubeless valves.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

mestapho said:


> Get the 44 or 42, don't remember which they are, tubeless valves.


I tried with 21mm yellow tape, but that's a bit narrow. I'm going to order the 25mm tape and the 44mm road valves. That should do the trick. Not looking forward to reinstalling all that crap. BTW, those rims have a tall bead, and they're the hardest I've ever used to install a tire on.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I used longer presta valve stems from old inner tubes I had, with a rubber grommet on the rim bed to keep it sealed and 2 valve nuts plus a washer on the outside to keep it tight and prevent loosening. I didn't had any tubeless valves on hand and didn't wanted to wait for them, so I went DIY. The only downside I see is more weight and fiddling, but was free and easy to do.

I too had some sealing issues on the rim bead running non-ust folding tires with sealant, because the rim lip wasn't smooth at some places and was allowing the sealant and air to breach between the rim bead and tire bead with pressure over 30psi. Became stable at around 20-25, but down to 18, you could see many small breach appearing around. After about a week sitting at 20psi, both tires where down to 14 and 10 psi. I pumped them back up to 18 each and did a 3 hours ride in 0°F today and it was great. I recon I'll never be able to seal them perfectly since the cheap CST folding tires aren't made for tubeless, but in my case it's not a big deal if I loose a few psi every week, as long as they don't burp on me at 15psi. I carry a spare tube and pump just in case one tire starts leaking badly, I'll just put a tube in and fix the leak back home.

Now on the performance of the wheels themselves. I'm nowhere near a performance rider, but I can see a big difference in handling riding the same trails with the same bike with alloy wheels and with another bigger bike. This 4" bike handle the hard-packed snow trails even better than my 6" one, which have 2.4 tires on vs the small 2.1 I had on the carbon wheels today. The bike was eating all the pot-hole like feature of the snow trail and was staying on track a lot easier and also upright a lot longer than my other one. Made the whole bike felt like a AM rig, despite the 100mm travel frame. Acceleration was just awesome, but for some reason I couldn't maintain a good cruising speed even on the flat road, which makes me wonder if I'm either that much out of shape or just being used to very heavy wheels keeping their momentum, I find myself spinning too high of a gear on light wheels ?

Anyway, they look and make the bike feel badass. No visible corrosion issue so far from winter riding (all brass nipples). After every ride, I wipe down the tires and wheels with a snow broom, then all the bike, then I shower the whole thing with hot water to melt down any salt and calcium left, then spin the drivetrain and bring the bike down my basement to let it dry till next time.

Here's a look at it from today's ride. I've logged about 15 miles so far on the wheels and didn't inspected them closely yet, but them seem to have stayed pretty true and round, no noticeable wooble. When I reach 30 miles, I'll throw them back on the truing stand and check the tension and over-all alignment. If someone wants to have their wheels build up and are afraid of messing it up themselves, I can testify it's not hard at all to work with them. Even your local bike shop or wheelbuilder should be able to handle them without problem.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

I have decided that l want to build my wheels. I have learned to put bikes together and work on suspension successfully. Now l want to do wheels. I am confused on the size of spokes l need.
I have---
Profile Elite hubs 20mm front and 142x12 rears
L-B 26in 33outer rims
I am thinking of Cx rays or Revolution spokes. Still doing research on what is better for me.
I was using the Prowheel Builders spoke calculator and l have some numbers but l am not sure enough to know what l have is right. Can someone help out with some numbers...please


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

zorg said:


> Okay, I got the 33mm 26" rim with the holes drilled out. My LBS laced the wheel. I put a yellow tape last night, and mounted a tire and tube overnight. Converted them to tubeless today, but I have a leak somewhere that I have to investigate.
> 
> Problem: the rim is much deeper than a normal rim and the 35mm valve from Notubes barely sticks out of the rim. I can barely inflate the tire with a regular floor pump.
> 
> So, what are others using with the 33mm rim to make them tubeless?


I had a hell of a time getting some UST tires installed & seated on these rims - it's worth it to invest in some large, quality plastic tire levers - but once they were seated, I got an immediate seal and have not lost even a molecule of air out of these things for months with 3 different tire combinations; I was able to use the same size tape and valves as I had on my stan's rims, but had very little valve sticking out - enough to use my compressor fitting and a mini trail pump, but had a hard time with a floor pump - probably worth it to get some longer valves since they pretty much last forever


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Ordered the 25mm yellow tape and 44mm valves. Wheel looks great.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

zorg said:


> I tried with 21mm yellow tape, but that's a bit narrow. I'm going to order the 25mm tape and the 44mm road valves. That should do the trick. Not looking forward to reinstalling all that crap. BTW, those rims have a tall bead, and they're the hardest I've ever used to install a tire on.


Definitely usee the widest Notubes tape and this is important: Immediately after taping put a tube in and leave it inflated for an hour. That presses the tape down before the edges can start peeling up.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

panzer103 said:


> I have decided that l want to build my wheels. I have learned to put bikes together and work on suspension successfully. Now l want to do wheels. I am confused on the size of spokes l need.
> I have---
> Profile Elite hubs 20mm front and 142x12 rears
> L-B 26in 33outer rims
> ...


Use CX-Rays or DT Aerolites and get a bladed apoke holding tool. Enter the hub and rim dimensions in the DT spoke calculator on DT's website to get spoke lengths.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> Definitely usee the widest Notubes tape and this is important: Immediately after taping put a tube in and leave it inflated for an hour. That presses the tape down before the edges can start peeling up.


I did that with the 21mm tape, but the tape was clearly too narrow for the rim and there must be some air seeping under it. I'll redo it this w-e after I get the wider tape. Meanwhile, I'll put a tube in it. That rim is a beaut'


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Just asking but wasn't the point of the undrilled rim bed so you wouldn't have to bother with tape? Just curious. Anyone successfully gone tubeless without tape?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

bad andy said:


> Just asking but wasn't the point of the undrilled rim bed so you wouldn't have to bother with tape? Just curious. Anyone successfully gone tubeless without tape?


Yes and yes. Also makes you the cool kid on the block.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

zorg said:


> Okay, I got the 33mm 26" rim with the holes drilled out. My LBS laced the wheel. I put a yellow tape last night, and mounted a tire and tube overnight. Converted them to tubeless today, but I have a leak somewhere that I have to investigate.
> 
> Problem: the rim is much deeper than a normal rim and the 35mm valve from Notubes barely sticks out of the rim. I can barely inflate the tire with a regular floor pump.
> 
> So, what are others using with the 33mm rim to make them tubeless?


I used Fulcrum valve stems. They are longer and made in Italy and can be found at a lot of shops or online. Here's a pic of mine.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

bad andy said:


> Just asking but wasn't the point of the undrilled rim bed so you wouldn't have to bother with tape? Just curious. Anyone successfully gone tubeless without tape?


Anyone ever in the history of tubeless wheels ever gone tubeless without tape? Or are you referring to just these LB carbon wheels?

Either way, yes on both questions. I do both. UST rimsets are commonly sold with no rim holes drilled. My Easton Havoc's came that way.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> I used Fulcrum valve stems. They are longer and made in Italy and can be found at a lot of shops or online. Here's a pic of mine.


These are sexy. How much $$ does a pair of tubeless valves usually cost ?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

David C said:


> These are sexy. How much $$ does a pair of tubeless valves usually cost ?


LOL, thanks. Fulcrum's are around $15-20 a pair.:thumbsup: if you think that's sexy, check out the whole thing here.

2013 Intense Uzzi - Faster Than U's Bike Check - Vital MTB


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Haha, I love the ELS sticker *Expensive Lightweight *****

xD


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

LOL, thanks. Me too!:cornut:


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

So I'm having a bit of an issue with a new set I'm trying to get set up. I was using a set of Easton valves in my other 33mm set, and didn't have any trouble mounting/holding air. My new set I'm using Fat Alberts and Stan's valves. 

Issue #1: can't get the "pop" connect sound to set the beads, on either wheel. I can get the PSI up to 50 but still don't hear the pop. I can get them to hold air for about 10min's until.....
Issue #2: both Stan's valves are leaking a tiny amount of air where the round nut tightens down to the rim wall to hold the valve in place. I have them hand tightened as of now, didn't know if I should go tighter with a carbon wheel. Use some pliers to tighten that nut? Anyone else having these issues?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I would tighten them up as tight as you can by hand. If you spray some soapy water on the beads, that should help them pop onto the bead fully. Just keep adding air, little by little until they pop on, then let it back out to what you run. Once you do that, shake the wheel back and forth, with the valve on the bottom of the wheel so the Stan's fully coats the inside of the valve. That should do it. I shake the Stan's all around the inside. Once you go for a ride, that usually seals the whole inside so it holds air for along time.:thumbsup:


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

you can make rubber washers to fit underneath the valve nut out of an old innertube in seconds, a rubber washer will help seal leaks & protect the rim

#1 cut a square of innertube approx 2cm square (3/4 inch)
#2 fold square in half & pinch with forefinger & thumb
#3 cut around you thumb making a half circle & unfold to reveal circle of rubber
#4 fold in half again & snip the middle for cut-out for valve
#5 trim any excess

it might take a couple attempts to get it right, use the washers under the valve nut to make a barrier between the carbon rim & metal valve washer that sealant will seal quickly under pressure

have been riding carbon MTB rims tubeless for 4 years now, DT Swiss XRC 330 & 300 with regular tyres, mostly Rocket Rons & Race King Supersonic

tip:
tyres do not always pop when inflating with carbon rims.
make sure there is no old dried up sealant around the tyre bead it will make it much harder to inflate & seal.
don't over inflate when beading a tyre tubeless for the first time, only go 5-10 psi max over what pressure you normally ride when first inflating.
shake the tyre, rotate & repeat to ensure the sealant fully wets the bead inside all around.
a drop of Tri-Flow dry lubricant will protect alloy spoke nips from corrosion caused by sealant. 

...will be building a LB new AM wheelset myself next month 

best
alex


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

^^ mine did "pop" in place on my carbon DH 30mm wide rims. A nice clean pop sound, not some metal breaking kind of pop you usually get with alu rims.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

^^^ nice to know, will post experience with mine when they are here/laced & dirty 

...ordered WTB 46mm black aluminium valves for the LB new AM 30mm rims

best
alex


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## mak_kioy (Aug 26, 2008)

Just got my LB 33mm wide rims and the ERD measures 526mm instead of 518mm that is claimed on their site. Ι've made about 4 measurements on one rim and i get the same result.

The method i used to measure ERD is this one link

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong, or it might just be different from the factory?

Luckily i haven't ordered spokes yet just for the reason i wanted to measure ERD by myself.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

That's not right. The AM ones were 538 if I remember right and they were about 20mm deep I think. So the DH ones at 30mm wide and 33mm deep are 518. So there's something wrong with your measurements. And if the rim is actually what you measured, it's like super thick at the spoke hole. It should only be like 3-4mm thick max per specs.


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## mak_kioy (Aug 26, 2008)

They are about 4mm thick at spoke holes. I'm pretty sure I am measuring the ERD correctly, but I'll take a friends measure it also, before I order spokes. Also measured and the other rim and i got same results. 526mm ERD. 

where may i be adding 4mm on each side?


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

mak_kioy said:


> They are about 4mm thick at spoke holes. I'm pretty sure I am measuring the ERD correctly, but I'll take a friends measure it also, before I order spokes. Also measured and the other rim and i got same results. 526mm ERD.
> 
> where may i be adding 4mm on each side?


My AM rims' ERD came in at 530mm instead of the advertised 538mm. So i wouldn't doubt yourself too much.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## material guy (Mar 14, 2011)

where may i be adding 4mm on each side?[/QUOTE]

Just for the hell of it-are you measuring from on top of the spoke nipple head or under the rim of the head?

Just a thought cause that sounds like your 4mm there.


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## mak_kioy (Aug 26, 2008)

Spokes cutted down to 201mm and 202mm and fully threaded into the nipples, until faced to the "mushroom/head" of the nipple. Then tensioned by hand and measure the gap between the spoke ends. As like as the link I have posted before.

example pic taken from web


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

mak_kioy said:


> Spokes cutted down to 201mm and 202mm and fully threaded into the nipples, until faced to the "mushroom/head" of the nipple. Then tensioned by hand and measure the gap between the spoke ends. As like as the link I have posted before.
> 
> example pic taken from web


So you have 200mm from under the nipple head to the other end of the spoke ? Then an identical setup on the confirmed opposite side of the rim, and you get about 126mm between both spokes ends ?

Just for fun, take a string, pass it through both spoke holes of the rim, make it straight, then using a marker, mark the string where it enters the rim (aka measuring inner diameter of the rim). Then measure the distance between the marks and add 7mm (specs of the rim shows a thickness of 3.5mm) and see what comes out.

Also, please measure the rim depth, it should be 33mm from outer edge to inner edge, and external width should be 30mm.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

David C said:


> So you have 200mm from under the nipple head to the other end of the spoke ? Then an identical setup on the confirmed opposite side of the rim, and you get about 126mm between both spokes ends ?
> 
> Just for fun, take a string, pass it through both spoke holes of the rim, make it straight, then using a marker, mark the string where it enters the rim (aka measuring inner diameter of the rim). Then measure the distance between the marks and add 7mm (specs of the rim shows a thickness of 3.5mm) and see what comes out.
> 
> Also, please measure the rim depth, it should be 33mm from outer edge to inner edge, and external width should be 30mm.


David, you have it backwards. The new AM/DH rim is 33 wide and 30 deep. My ERD was 518 just like they were advertised.

New 26er 33mm wide enduro MTB all mountain downhill carbon rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle

The ERD on the older 30mm wide rim is advertised at 538:thumbsup:


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> David, you have it backwards. The new AM/DH rim is 33 wide and 30 deep. My ERD was 518 just like they were advertised.
> 
> New 26er 33mm wide enduro MTB all mountain downhill carbon rim tubeless compatible Light-Bicycle
> 
> The ERD on the older 30mm wide rim is advertised at 538:thumbsup:


Damn I'm getting old, I always mix up the width and depth of these exact rims. Either way, mines were 518 too.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

I asked Light Bicycle regarding making two DH rims hookless for me, and Nancy said she'd talk to the engineers.

Given that Specialized is having great success with their hookless design, do you think I should give it a shot with these DH rims?



David C said:


> The new 26" DH rims at 33mm wide and 30mm deep are clincher rims. They first intended to make them 35mm wide and hookless, but many people chimed in and since they mostly didn't knew any better, they asked for clincher instead of hookless. For myself, I didn't voted on these as I wasn't knowledgeable enough on rim bead to argue with the Internet genius. Since then I've been reading a lot about hookless designs and how tire/rim interface works and I would definitively go for hookless rim any time.
> 
> I've been working all summer on bikes with hookless rims and I can tell you there is no need for a clincher hook at all. Plus hookless wall are easier and stronger to manufacture, plus make airing up a tire a snap and will self-center easier.
> 
> ...


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## mak_kioy (Aug 26, 2008)

External dimensions are as described at their site. The whole spoke is 201mm and 202mm fullu threaded to the nipple as shown this image








the "correct one". Then the length between the spokes is 122.5mm to 123mm measured at 4 different sides. (I get an average of 122.75mm) of all 4 measurements.

I'll do the string measurement as i get home from work in the afternoon. Also I'll get a friend with more experience measure the ERD and i'll post the results. Thanks everybody


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## 65mtn (Jun 4, 2008)

just ordered a set of the 26 am 33mm wide rims.is the erd correct at 518? going to order spokes and wanted to make sure the erd is right.can anyone tell me if 12mm nipples are ok or do I need 14mm.any info would be great.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

518 was correct for mine, and I used DT Supercomp spokes with 15g aluminum nipples. I think 12 would be too big. 14 would be fine though.


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## 65mtn (Jun 4, 2008)

thanks for the info shred.the nipples I'm using are 15 gauge and 12mm long.i'm just wondering if they are long enough due to the thickness of the carbon at the spoke holes.
did you use 12mm long nipples for your wheel build?


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

65mtn said:


> thanks for the info shred.the nipples I'm using are 15 gauge and 12mm long.i'm just wondering if they are long enough due to the thickness of the carbon at the spoke holes.
> did you use 12mm long nipples for your wheel build?


I had to use 12mm long nipples for mines since they were inserted through the valve hole and 14mm ones wouldn't have enough room to flip inside, but honestly if you can use 14mm alloy ones, it would make the tensioning a lot easier and less chance to round off the nipple under high tension. Also, the carbon can be quite thicker in some area and I wouldn't be surprised to see a +-1mm variation all around. And they sent me Pillar Hexagonal head 14g 12mm alloy nipples and these were useless because the head design made them sitting higher in the rim than regular round head and leaving about 1mm less sticking out, so I stripped many of them when I was getting to tension and it was a mess. 12mm brass round head ones where alright for me in 14g. Many wheel builder I spoke with were suggesting 14mm brass all around due to corrosion issue for year round ridding and for less wear on the nipple. Although it's gonna be pretty heavy, so if you're looking for weight saving, it's gonna kill you.

Btw, I have 64pcs DT 12mm alloy gold nipples in 14g brand new for sale, since I went with brass instead. They are a good fit in these rims if you're looking for lightweight bling. Anyone interested PM me, asking $30, free shipping.

Here's a look at how the 12mm DT gold ones and 12mm Pillar black ones are sticking out. Note how short the Pillar are due to the hex head.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Use 12mm nipples.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Yep, 12mm. Brass are too heavy for my liking. I live on the west coast, and even though I'm near the beach, I've never had a problem with corrosion or oxidation from salty air or Stan's sealant.:thumbsup:


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## 65mtn (Jun 4, 2008)

thanks for the info shredman.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Hi guys,

What nipple length did you use on the 35mm wide rim with the inner bed 'un drilled' (full UST rim profile). The reason I ask is that LB just got back to me saying I need to use 11mm nipples? if the rim is left un drilled!.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

12mm nipples


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

Muchas said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What nipple length did you use on the 35mm wide rim with the inner bed 'un drilled' (full UST rim profile). The reason I ask is that LB just got back to me saying I need to use 11mm nipples? if the rim is left un drilled!.


Something was lost in the translation. They must have meant 12mm.


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## mak_kioy (Aug 26, 2008)

About the ERD issue i had, I've measured it again with sheldon brown's method and i got it at 520mm. I've put a friend to measure the ERD, he did it with the cutted spoke method and he found it to be 521mm. Today i went to a LBS to measure the ERD and he did measure it with the cutted spoke method. He got it 524mm. I'll order spokes for ERD 521 and hope not to be too long or too short. 

Thinking about Sapim double butted race spokes 2.0-1.8-2.0mm with aluminum nipples in blue colour, just for the bling factor.

Is there any advantage, other than weight, with bladed spokes? (real life advantage and not marketing advantage).

Edit : Also whoever built the 33mm wide rims with hope pro 2 evo's could please list the spoke lengths? And if the spoke were fully threaded to the nipple or just half way.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Muchas said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> What nipple length did you use on the 35mm wide rim with the inner bed 'un drilled' (full UST rim profile). The reason I ask is that LB just got back to me saying I need to use 11mm nipples? if the rim is left un drilled!.


The 35mm 650b hookless rim from LB is only 25mm deep as opposed to the 33 wide AM/DH 26" rim which is 30mm deep. Considering that the 35mm rim is 5mm shallower I would stick with what LB said on the 11mm nipple for an un drilled rim.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

mak_kioy said:


> About the ERD issue i had, I've measured it again with sheldon brown's method and i got it at 520mm. I've put a friend to measure the ERD, he did it with the cutted spoke method and he found it to be 521mm. Today i went to a LBS to measure the ERD and he did measure it with the cutted spoke method. He got it 524mm. I'll order spokes for ERD 521 and hope not to be too long or too short.
> 
> Thinking about Sapim double butted race spokes 2.0-1.8-2.0mm with aluminum nipples in blue colour, just for the bling factor.
> 
> ...


I had my local bike shop order my spokes and lace them up to my Hope Pro2 EVO's. They confirmed and used the 518 ERD when they ordered the spokes and nipples. I don't remember the length so I'll have to call them and find out, but they were fully threaded into the nipple. They're closed now, but when I talk to them later, I'll find out.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Shredman69 said:


> The 35mm 650b hookless rim from LB is only 25mm deep as opposed to the 33 wide AM/DH 26" rim which is 30mm deep. Considering that the 35mm rim is 5mm shallower I would stick with what LB said on the 11mm nipple for an un drilled rim.


Thanks Shredman69:thumbsup:, you hit the nail on the head, it didn't click with me that the two rims were different depths!. I'm pretty gutted now to be honest, I really wanted these rims with a full UST rim bed like my Fulcrum Red Metal Zeros's:madman:

I've had a quick squint on the net and couldn't see any 11mm nipples, I suppose I will have to go down the drilled and tape route.

Here is a cross section of the 35mm 650B rim I modeled up to simulate the nipple access etc,(dims kindly supplied by LB) it looks doable with a 12mm nipple (aperture 13.25mm) if the tolerances are consistent around the rim and the ERD is true!


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

12mm is as short as nipples get. 13.25mm vertical space is so close I don't think there'd be room for my derailleur cable method. It's not that bad to have to use tape. It's 7g per rim and if you apply the tape well and then press it for an hour or so with an inflated tube I've never had a failure so it's pretty reliable.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> 12mm is as short as nipples get. 13.25mm vertical space is so close I don't think there'd be room for my derailleur cable method. It's not that bad to have to use tape. It's 7g per rim and if you apply the tape well and then press it for an hour or so with an inflated tube I've never had a failure so it's pretty reliable.


Well thanks for the advise, I think its going to be a taped rim then!. will place the order Monday, cant wait. I'm going with Sapim D-Light spokes and brass nipples unless I can be convinced otherwise.

Cheers


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Sounds good, but if you want them lighter, and more bling, I'd get anodized aluminum nipples, just sayin. I've run them for over 20 years and never had issues with them.:thumbsup:


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Muchas said:


> Well thanks for the advise, I think its going to be a taped rim then!. will place the order Monday, cant wait. I'm going with Sapim D-Light spokes and brass nipples unless I can be convinced otherwise.
> 
> Cheers


My advice is to have LB send you Pillar 1420 XTRA bladed spokes (same as DT Aerolite & Sapim CX-Ray) and alloy nipples. Buy a bladed spoke holding tool and eliminate wind-up. They're 50g per wheel lighter than 14/15 double butted but I don't know how that compares to Lasers. They are very stiff and strong.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> My advice is to have LB send you Pillar 1420 XTRA bladed spokes (same as DT Aerolite & Sapim CX-Ray) and alloy nipples. Buy a bladed spoke holding tool and eliminate wind-up. They're 50g per wheel lighter than 14/15 double butted but I don't know how that compares to Lasers. They are very stiff and strong.


Just beware of those 12mm hex head alloy nipples (I think they were Pilllar), like I said previously, they don't offer much material for the spoke wrench and easily get damaged, a lot more than DT alloy ones. I think it's due to a shorter square area and taller head design. The Pillar bladed spokes were awesome though ! If only they would have sent me the right lengths in the first place, I wouldn't have go with the heavier Sapim Race spokes.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

David C said:


> Just beware of those 12mm hex head alloy nipples (I think they were Pilllar), like I said previously, they don't offer much material for the spoke wrench and easily get damaged, a lot more than DT alloy ones. I think it's due to a shorter square area and taller head design. The Pillar bladed spokes were awesome though ! If only they would have sent me the right lengths in the first place, I wouldn't have go with the heavier Sapim Race spokes.


Did you return the spokes?

Thanks guys, I must admit I am Really tempted by those Pillar bladed spokes, they look sweet and would save some weight. The problem in the back of my mind is how accurate is the ERD? It should be 551 for the new version of the wide 650B and I can get away with 266mm spokes all round according to the DT Swiss calculator, BUT, if that 551 deviates by a couple of millimetres I'm stuck with 64 unwanted spokes

Did you guys measure and compare your actual ERD against claimed?
How accurate are these rims?


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Lelandjt said:


> My advice is to have LB send you Pillar 1420 XTRA bladed spokes (same as DT Aerolite & Sapim CX-Ray) and alloy nipples. Buy a bladed spoke holding tool and eliminate wind-up. They're 50g per wheel lighter than 14/15 double butted but I don't know how that compares to Lasers. They are very stiff and strong.


Thanks for the spoke suggestion, I'm really interested and LB quoted me a good price!
It's just the accuracy of the ERD that's bugging me ordering the spokes up front


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Muchas said:


> Did you return the spokes?
> 
> Thanks guys, I must admit I am Really tempted by those Pillar bladed spokes, they look sweet and would save some weight. The problem in the back of my mind is how accurate is the ERD? It should be 551 for the new version of the wide 650B and I can get away with 266mm spokes all round according to the DT Swiss calculator, BUT, if that 551 deviates by a couple of millimetres I'm stuck with 64 unwanted spokes
> 
> ...


Yes I was able to return the spokes, had to pay to ship them to a California based contact of theirs, but still was $16 out of my pocket because of their mistake. Worst case you could always have the Pillar spokes cut down at much as ~7mm shorter, but in my case they were too short already for one flange. You can always order them at least 2-3mm longer just in case and have a lbs roll more threads on if needed, just check locally first if any bike shop can do it, I was lucky enough to have one close-by, but that was like 1 out of 20 shops.

I didn't measured ERD on mine, but using the provided ERD, my final spoke lengths were right on. I think you could expect some variation all around in the thickness of the rim though. Perhaps you could ask to confirm the ERD of both rims before they ship them ?


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

David C said:


> Yes I was able to return the spokes, had to pay to ship them to a California based contact of theirs, but still was $16 out of my pocket because of their mistake. Worst case you could always have the Pillar spokes cut down at much as ~7mm shorter, but in my case they were too short already for one flange. You can always order them at least 2-3mm longer just in case and have a lbs roll more threads on if needed, just check locally first if any bike shop can do it, I was lucky enough to have one close-by, but that was like 1 out of 20 shops.
> 
> I didn't measured ERD on mine, but using the provided ERD, my final spoke lengths were right on. I think you could expect some variation all around in the thickness of the rim though. Perhaps you could ask to confirm the ERD of both rims before they ship them ?


Thanks DaveC, it looks like the ERD are coming out more consistent with the new manufacturing process then!, But, I will ask if they can measure my rims before shipping.....just to make sure!


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Did you guys lace your rims with a 2x or 3x spoke pattern? 
Been reading up and a few wheel build pros have recommended 2x for less stress at the spoke hole in carbon rims!!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Muchas said:


> Did you guys lace your rims with a 2x or 3x spoke pattern?
> Been reading up and a few wheel build pros have recommended 2x for less stress at the spoke hole in carbon rims!!


I went 3x for a stiffer, stronger, flex free wheel.:thumbsup:


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> I went 3x for a stiffer, stronger, flex free wheel.:thumbsup:


I remember reading an article about the effect of different spoke lacing patterns over wheel stiffness and strength and turns out 2x or 3x don't make a single difference in stiffness or strength on a proper built and tensioned wheel. But I think 3x is easier to deal with when you're not expert at wheelbuilding.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Nvm.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

David C said:


> I remember reading an article about the effect of different spoke lacing patterns over wheel stiffness and strength and turns out 2x or 3x don't make a single difference in stiffness or strength on a proper built and tensioned wheel. But I think 3x is easier to deal with when you're not expert at wheelbuilding.


3x handles torque better. Like the torque created by big brakes, big grippy tires, and low gears. Definitely 3x 32 spoke for any AM wheel. Spoke hole issues haven't been at all common with these rims. Maybe non-existant?


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## chichiballz (Feb 5, 2008)

Hey everyone, just got my light bicycle 26 in wider rims 26mm ID, 33 OD, laced to hadley's with dt swiss comps, I was thinking of doing sapim cxrays but my wheel builder said comps would be stiffer for the carbon wheel. Final build weight was around ~1600 grams. I mounted a 2.4 ardent up front and 2.2 conti mountain king rear.mmTires beaded up perfect on first try.

I'll be doing a test ride soon when the rain lets up.


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## zorg (Jul 1, 2004)

I finally got my wide 26" rim mounted and finished. I used the wide Notubes yellow tape (23 or 25mm, whichever it is) and the 44mm Notube valve. With the compressor, the tire inflated quickly, and a few squirts of sealant took care of the bead leaks overnight. Rim is beefy, better finished than my first generation 26" LB rim and very stiff. Very happy with the purchase so far. I just have to make sure that I keep my tire sufficiently inflated when riding in the rocks.


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## slyfink (Apr 15, 2004)

Lelandjt said:


> 3x handles torque better. Like the torque created by big brakes, big grippy tires, and low gears. Definitely 3x 32 spoke for any AM wheel. Spoke hole issues haven't been at all common with these rims. Maybe non-existant?


I will add to this, that if and when a spoke breaks, a 32 spoke wheel will be less affected than a wheel with fewer spokes.


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## formu1fan (Jan 23, 2010)

I ordered AM 33mm rims last week, and should be here by the end of next month (chinese new year) I'll have them laced to I9 hubs. I can't wait!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

benny @ wheelbuilder is lacing my LB wheelset today - will post pics & spec later 

best
alex


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*1306g - Light Bicycle 26" 32h new All Mountain wheelset build*


204.6g dt swiss 190 32h cl rear hub


109g dt swiss 190 32h cl front hub


14.3g - Sapim Super CX-Ray 252mm x4

14.8g - Sapim Super CX-Ray 254mm x4

1.4g - Wheelbuilder 1.8 14mm nips x4





369g - Light Bicycle 26" 32h new All Mountain rim




366g - Light Bicycle 26" 32h new All Mountain rim

....Rear Wheel....
Hub: 135mm DT Swiss 190 Ceramic CL 32h black - 205g 
Rim: LB AM 26" 32h black - 369g 
Spokes : Sapim Super CX-Ray black + Wheelbuilder 14mm 1.8 nips - 129g
WEIGHT: 703g



703g rear wheel

....Front Wheel....
Hub: 100mm DT Swiss 190 Ceramic 32h CL - 108g 
Rim: LB AM 26" 32h black - 366g 
Spokes: Sapim Super CX-Ray black + Wheelbuilder 14mm 1.8 nips - 129g 
WEIGHT: 603g



603g front wheel

will put tyres on them tomorrow - very happy so far 

massive thanks to Benny & Jon @ Wheelbuilder, Chris @ Starbike & Kartrin Li @ Light Bicycles

best
alex


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Nice Alex. Excellent weight.

Look forward to the ride report, particularly how those super thin spokes go combined with stiff carbon rims. I think a German DH champ was using superspokes on his downhill wheels at one stage, so the lightweight spokes and stiff rims might be a winning combo. What bike are these going on?


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

culturesponge said:


> 204.6g dt swiss 190 32h cl rear hub
> 
> 
> 109g dt swiss 190 32h cl front hub
> ...


Nice set of wheels. Any place that i could order something like these but for 29er? Been searching but can only find overseas, meaning china but they are using different hub brand.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

TigWorld said:


> Nice Alex. Excellent weight.
> 
> Look forward to the ride report, particularly how those super thin spokes go combined with stiff carbon rims. I think a German DH champ was using superspokes on his downhill wheels at one stage, so the lightweight spokes and stiff rims might be a winning combo. What bike are these going on?


thank you

had been wondering about tension wind-up with those new(ish) super cx-ray's, but have a couple of wheels with the non-bladed version super spokes without any probs at all for a few years - went 32h + Wheelbuilder super strength nips just incase with these unknown LB rims

going on this bike


will be tubeless with 25mm stans tape & new formula sealant + RoRo EVO 26x2.25 or X-King Protection 26x2.4 depending on season & trail conditions

best
alex


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

jhobert said:


> Nice set of wheels. Any place that i could order something like these but for 29er? Been searching but can only find overseas, meaning china but they are using different hub brand.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


hello

thanks, going for stealth & performance rather than bling

the world is alot smaller than you might think! ...been choking on Chinese smog here in Socal - would ordering from oversees be a problem for you?

if you don't want to pick & choose components to suit your own specific needs/wants/budget - there are loads of pre-assembled carbon wheelsets on the market to chose from - Enve are stateside & have very high standards + great customer service (so i read here on mtbr)

best+good luck
alex


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jhobert said:


> Nice set of wheels. Any place that i could order something like these but for 29er? Been searching but can only find overseas, meaning china but they are using different hub brand.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


Most of us in this forum have bought the rims from China and built them up here with our own hubs, spokes and nipples. Light Bicycles is where we have gotten the rims from and they have all wheel sizes.:thumbsup:


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> Most of us in this forum have bought the rims from China and built them up here with our own hubs, spokes and nipples. Light Bicycles is where we have gotten the rims from and they have all wheel sizes.:thumbsup:


Thanks, reason I ask where I can buy online to where I can oick and choose because on my area most of the lbs are not that good on wheelbuilding, fine tuning a bike is been a problem with them too.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Alex, those are very nice wheels, congrats ! Did you asked for the rims to be as light as possible ? Mine were 380g with no rim bed holes.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

David C said:


> Alex, those are very nice wheels, congrats ! Did you asked for the rims to be as light as possible ? Mine were 380g with no rim bed holes.


thanks

yes, asked Kartrin that the boths rims needed to be slightly under spec weight & Light-Bicycle delivered with two specially made for me :thumbsup:

lacing-up was without problem, Wheelbuilder had to use 14mm nips to avoid damage to the rims, used 14mm 1.8 Wheelbuilder extra strong alloy nipples with the Super CX-Ray spokes - they are more durable than standard Sapim Polax nips

Ron's popped when inflating with floorpump last night, no issues at all mounting them up with Stan's 25mm tape & gloop - were as easy as a fully UST wheelset to inflate

test ride later today

..been out for a ride on your wheelset?

best
alex


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## Rodeodave (May 11, 2013)

Hey culturesponge, I think I spy an IKEA Expedit housing some vinyl in one of the pics! What's your setup for spinning discs?

And those wheels look super slick, I think I'll be putting in an order soon.


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

culturesponge said:


> thanks
> 
> yes, asked Kartrin that the boths rims needed to be slightly under spec weight & Light-Bicycle delivered with two specially made for me :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


How much ur total cost for the set of wheels if u dont mind me asking.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

culturesponge said:


> thanks
> 
> yes, asked Kartrin that the boths rims needed to be slightly under spec weight & Light-Bicycle delivered with two specially made for me :thumbsup:
> 
> ...


I'm curious to know if I could got away with 10g less per rim, please report on yours after a few good beatings.

So far I've had about 30 miles or more on it, all winter and snow. No problem yet, running tubeless with homebrewed sealant on DIY studded 2.1 tires. I'll put them back on the truing stand later to check how they do and compare the tension from day 1. I'm very happy with mines so far, plus the matte 3k is very stealth looking. I'm riding more aggressively on this XC bike than on my FR rig with alloy wheels and 2.4 tires.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

David C said:


> I'm curious to know if I could got away with 10g less per rim, please report on yours after a few good beatings.
> 
> So far I've had about 30 miles or more on it, all winter and snow. No problem yet, running tubeless with homebrewed sealant on DIY studded 2.1 tires. I'll put them back on the truing stand later to check how they do and compare the tension from day 1. I'm very happy with mines so far, plus the matte 3k is very stealth looking. I'm riding more aggressively on this XC bike than on my FR rig with alloy wheels and 2.4 tires.
> 
> View attachment 867528


careful! ...weight weenie disease is very expensive to cure!

wouldn't fret over 10g on those smashing wheels - lucky for me i planned ahead & asked if LB could manufacture rims to request - yes they can 

tyres have such vast weight variation (& most scales are rubbish anyway) - perhaps your next set of tyres will be underweight & make back that 10g difference (or more) :thumbsup:

too much nice weather here in SoCal for me to appreciate, will try to send over some decent riding weather to you

best
alex


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

jhobert said:


> How much ur total cost for the set of wheels if u dont mind me asking.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


approx $1300 all in, really worked the web to find best prices for the components needed & Wheelbuilder dot com were brilliant (as always)

best
alex


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

culturesponge said:


> approx $1300 all in, really worked the web to find best prices for the components needed & Wheelbuilder dot com were brilliant (as always)
> 
> best
> alex


Thanks. So u buy all the components and sent it to wheelbuilder? Just want to know how it works because in my area theres no shop who builds good wheels.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

culturesponge said:


> careful! ...weight weenie disease is very expensive to cure!
> 
> wouldn't fret over 10g on those smashing wheels - lucky for me i planned ahead & asked if LB could manufacture rims to request - yes they can
> 
> ...


My set came in at 1 800g, mostly due to the heavy hubset (650g) and then a setback in spokes from the 4.3g Pillar X-TRA to the heavy Sapim Race, then using all 2.0x12mm brass nipples instead of alloy (you'll understand from the snowman picture). But then it cost me under $800 and it's totally unique.

My tires are about 590-600g each and with the studs it's 640-650g each. Of course this is not a permanent value, since changing tires often happens a few times a year. But the wheels themselves, you can't change it once it's been done ! Right now the bike is just under 30lbs if I take off the frame bag, pump, etc. But I'm swapping more parts soon and saving a bit of weight. When you're having to hop the bike every feet because you're riding over pot-holes from boot holes in the deep snow, light wheels really do make a difference when your momentum has to go from dead stop in the tracks to fast forward !

Just make it a bit warmer, but not too much, I need to keep it just under 30°F so nothing melts and my hands don't freeze ! Snow rides are pretty awesome


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## wreckedrex (May 2, 2007)

I've got a set of the 33mm wide version on order laced to the faster engaging hope pro2. By the published #'s the hoops should be ~250g lighter each than my current ex823s. I'm really curious to see how much dropping a pound of rotating weight changes the feel of the bike.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

wreckedrex said:


> I've got a set of the 33mm wide version on order laced to the faster engaging hope pro2. By the published #'s the hoops should be ~250g lighter each than my current ex823s. I'm really curious to see how much dropping a pound of rotating weight changes the feel of the bike.


So far, the biggest change I've seen from lighter hoops on my bike is the ease of acceleration and that translate into more enjoyable riding on technical climbs and slow sections. Top speed isn't really gonna change and going downhill (at least on my XC bike) haven't showed any improvement from weight reduction, but mostly from added width and stiffness in the front. Overall, the stiffness and added width are really the best of carbon rims. The weight reduction will only be felt under significant acceleration. This have been my experience from XC/trail riding.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

jhobert said:


> Thanks. So u buy all the components and sent it to wheelbuilder? Just want to know how it works because in my area theres no shop who builds good wheels.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk




no probs, this forum is (or was) about sharing information & helping mtn biking compadre's

have a good relationship with Wheelbuilder dot com, very friendly peeps, all avid cyclist & about 40 mins(ish) from where i live - so go in person with pick-ups & drop-off's

...where are you located?

best
alex


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Rodeodave said:


> Hey culturesponge, I think I spy an IKEA Expedit housing some vinyl in one of the pics! What's your setup for spinning discs?
> 
> And those wheels look super slick, I think I'll be putting in an order soon.


thanks :thumbsup:

don't forget post info about your own build here if you have time
alex


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## Carnazachile (Oct 28, 2007)

For you guys who have bought these rims built from light bicycles....

The hope hub they use are the newest (40t) or the quite old 24t?

I bought my wheelset like 2 weeks ago and should be ready for shipping around feb 20th. But I don't know specifically which pro 2 Evo they use


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## Carnazachile (Oct 28, 2007)

For you guys who have bought these rims built from light bicycles....

The hope hubs they use are the newest (40t) or the old 24t?

I bought my wheelset like 2 weeks ago and should be ready for shipping around feb 20th. But I don't know specifically which pro 2 Evo they use


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

culturesponge said:


> no probs, this forum is (or was) about sharing information & helping mtn biking compadre's
> 
> have a very great relationship with Wheelbuilder dot com, very friendly peeps, they are about 40 mins(ish) from where i live - so go in person with pick-ups & drop-off's
> 
> ...


Im from Los Angeles Cali

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Bro, there are all kinds of wheel builders in LA. Just google it.


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## jhobert (Feb 1, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> Bro, there are all kinds of wheel builders in LA. Just google it.


I did. But I dont want to take chance on some of the shops I dont know, and from what they say about wheelbuilder convinced me to go to them. 
As ive seen wheelbuilder is on el monte ca, which is like 30 to 40 mins away so ill just go drive to their shop.

Sent from my SM-N900T using Tapatalk


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## wreckedrex (May 2, 2007)

Carnazachile said:


> For you guys who have bought these rims built from light bicycles....
> 
> The hope hubs they use are the newest (40t) or the old 24t?
> 
> I bought my wheelset like 2 weeks ago and should be ready for shipping around feb 20th. But I don't know specifically which pro 2 Evo they use


For what it's worth I specifically requested mine with the newer 40t hopes, at the time they didn't have them in stock and it delayed my build until after the cny holiday (tomorrow, I think)


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

Ok, I'm finally going to do it. 33mm AM rim with I9 Torch hubs - 142x12 and 15mm. 

I am 210 lb but m not overly hard on wheels. 28 or 32h? Seems like all prebuilt wheels with carbon rims go less than 32h...

I like the pillar spokes from light bicycle, but am worried about getting spoke lengths right. Does anyone have reliable lengths from building this exact setup with I9 Torch hubs?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I'm bummed! I went riding today and as I was bombing down the trail, I bunny hopped off a small riser on the trail and when I landed, I heard a loud pop. When I got to the bottom of the trail shortly after, I noticed the tire was low. So when I looked at it, this is what I found. The line down the tire is where the Stan's leaked out when the rim broke. Luckily, I pumped it back up and it held air and stayed straight for the rest of the ride back to my truck, another 6 miles or so. I took it easy though. I already emailed Nancy and Kartrin and got a response that they are on vacation until the 8th. Hopefully they will warranty it. What's weird though is it wasn't anything big. I've taken these rims off drops, jumps, through big rock gardens and they were fine, but it broke on something small. I don't know, maybe I landed on a rock or something. I'm super bummed though because I love these rims. They have been awesome until today, but I guess nothing is indestructible. :cryin:


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Shredman69 said:


> I'm bummed! I went riding today and as I was bombing down the trail, I bunny hopped off a small riser on the trail and when I landed, I heard a loud pop. When I got to the bottom of the trail shortly after, I noticed the tire was low. So when I looked at it, this is what I found. The line down the tire is where the Stan's leaked out when the rim broke. Luckily, I pumped it back up and it held air and stayed straight for the rest of the ride back to my truck, another 6 miles or so. I took it easy though. I already emailed Nancy and Kartrin and got a response that they are on vacation until the 8th. Hopefully they will warranty it. What's weird though is it wasn't anything big. I've taken these rims off drops, jumps, through big rock gardens and they were fine, but it broke on something small. I don't know, maybe I landed on a rock or something. I'm super bummed though because I love these rims. They have been awesome until today, but I guess nothing is indestructible. :cryin:


Be careful with what you tell them. I recently cracked my rim and when I e-mailed them I told them that I might have hit a rock. Nancy told me that because I hit a rock that it wasn't covered under warranty. I'm pretty pissed about it actually. This is their DH version and it cracked after about a couple months of technical AM riding. The only think they would do for me was give me $15 off. So 2 broken rims in less than a year from them and my investment is gone.


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## mentawais (Feb 16, 2005)

*which rim model is it?*



Shredman69 said:


> I'm bummed! I went riding today and as I was bombing down the trail, I bunny hopped off a small riser on the trail and when I landed, I heard a loud pop. When I got to the bottom of the trail shortly after, I noticed the tire was low. So when I looked at it, this is what I found. The line down the tire is where the Stan's leaked out when the rim broke. Luckily, I pumped it back up and it held air and stayed straight for the rest of the ride back to my truck, another 6 miles or so. I took it easy though. I already emailed Nancy and Kartrin and got a response that they are on vacation until the 8th. Hopefully they will warranty it. What's weird though is it wasn't anything big. I've taken these rims off drops, jumps, through big rock gardens and they were fine, but it broke on something small. I don't know, maybe I landed on a rock or something. I'm super bummed though because I love these rims. They have been awesome until today, but I guess nothing is indestructible. :cryin:


Is it the hookless??


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Wow! thats not good. I hope it goes better for me but I don't have a good feeling. I got a reply to my email, but she really didn't say what they are going to do yet. Here is our emails so far. So I have not gotten a reply to my last reply, so I'll see what she says about it. I also sent pics of the damaged rim, the serial# and my original order from 10/13 with the first email.



Hello Kartrin and Nancy, I have been enjoying my 26" carbon AM rims since
I received them in the end of October 2013. They have been great and I have
referred friends to also order them. In fact a friend of mine, (his name here) ordered a set last night based on my referral. And I was actually
going to order another set for my other bike, but when I was riding today,
I was going downhill and I bunny hopped off of a small rise and when I
landed, I heard a loud pop sound. When I stopped to look at my bike, this
is what I saw. Can this be replaced under warranty? If it can be replaced
under warranty, I will also order a second set for my other bike. Please
let me know what to do as soon as possible.

Hello Shred,

Do you ride downhill strongly? For rims around 370g+/-15, it can not be
ridden DH. Only around 440g+/-15 is for DH riding.
And how is the other rim?

Thanks,
Nancy

Hello Nancy, thanks for replying so fast. I am a small rider, 5'6 and only weigh about 160lbs and I ride all mountain, (AM) so that's why I bought the AM version. I do a lot of climbing on the bike so I didn't want a heavy DH rim. My bike is a 29lb 2013 Intense Uzzy. The front rim is fine, this was not a crash or anything like that. I don't know why it happened today because it was not a hard trail and I have been on much harder trails and the rims were fine. Here is a picture of the wheels on my bike. (Pic sent showing its not a DH bike, but an AM bike)


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

mentawais said:


> Is it the hookless??


No, it's the 33 wide AM with a hook


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Shredman69 said:


> Wow! thats not good. I hope it goes better for me but I don't have a good feeling. I got a reply to my email, but she really didn't say what they are going to do yet. Here is our emails so far. So I have not gotten a reply to my last reply, so I'll see what she says about it. I also sent pics of the damaged rim, the serial# and my original order from 10/13 with the first email.
> 
> Hello Kartrin and Nancy, I have been enjoying my 26" carbon AM rims since
> I received them in the end of October 2013. They have been great and I have
> ...


They did warranty the 1st rim that I broke last year so you'll probably be fine. It took them about a month and a half and about $40 in shipping, so don't expect to get it quickly.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Good to know, thanks. I guess I'll have to throw my old aluminum wheels on in the mean time, which sucks because I really like the way my carbon wheels feel, being wider and stiffer.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Ok, Nancy is replacing the damaged rim, so I'm good to go. :cornut: The replacement is going to be hookless so it should be a little stronger, hopefully. I also ordered another set, also 26" 33 wide AM hookless to build up another set of wheels since I already have an extra set of Hope hubs from another aluminum wheelset.


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

Fresh from LB, the hookless version of the 26" Enduro rim in UD matte. 27mm ID, 386g and 404g.

Built with 32h, 15mm, 142x12mm I9 Torch hubs, Pillar spokes from LB and red alloy Pillar nipples.

1525g total and absolutely beautiful.

Stan's 1" tape is a bit narrow but works. Long Speed Evolution valve stems finish them off.

Now I just need to go get them dirty.










Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Nice wheels :thumbsup:


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## cka3o4nuk (Jul 17, 2013)

hope to see 26inch 40-41mm rim....
like new Ibis Cycles and not so new Syntace


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I agree, but ibis is not making it in 26". MTBR said Derby is, but I checked their website and it's not listed. I bet if enough people asked, Light Bikes would make it.

Actually, I just emailed Light Bikes and asked. Now if everyone else can do the same thing, I'm sure they'll make it.:thumbsup:


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Some action pics of Easter's mudfest ride on my 33mn wide undrilled DH rims on my XC bike with 2.1 tires.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Just a little bump. After 6 weeks wait, received my wider 26" wheels. Built with blue Hope Pro2 Evo hubs (40t) (QR & 15mm) with Pillar spokes and blue nips. Total weight: 1502 grams. 

Build looks good, no bulging nipple holes. Finishing on these rims looks a bit more precise vs. my first set of rims I bought about a year ago.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Last weekend while switching to 26x1.5" slick tires and tubes for a big urban ride, the plug that was installed in the rim bed to cover the hole used by the bladder during manufacturing came unglued and fell into the rim, making a knocking noise and having me to take the wheel off and get it out. I did ran the wheel with a tube and no tape for the ride anyway, but it sucks because I didn't wanted to have to tape the rim for tubeless. I contacted LB about this and explained them. Since in still under warranty till end of august, Nancy explained to me that the glue used for the plug must have been too thin and that's why the plug came off, and is now offering me the hookless version of the rim as a replacement. She's gonna come back to me with a price (should be shipping only, about $40 I guess), and so far she seems willing to stand by their product and honor the warranty. I'll let you know how it goes.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

That's good that they will cover it. The other good thing is, u can still use that rim for a spare and just run rim tape on it for tubeless. Or since that hole is not load bearing either, you might be able to glue the plug back in to use it for tubeless.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Exactly, that's what I'll try to do and hopefully it'll hold up. Nancy just told me it's gonna be $43 for shipping, so I'm gonna have the new rim sent to me anyway.

Once again, very good customer service and great products :thumbsup:


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm building the new wide hookless 650b rims for my new Nomad. I'll be selling my 26" DT240 142mm/Atomlab Pimplite 20mm, AM rim, Comp spoke, Brass nip wheelset if anyone is interested.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I'm looking to buy tubeless valve stem for my 33mm wide 30mm deep rims and I'm pretty sure 45mm would be short, 50mm would be better, but how do they usually measure the length of the valve stem ? Is it from where the rubber ends (aka where the stem seal contacts the rim bed) to the tip of the stem ? From measuring this way, using a 45mm presta valve from an old tube, I barely have it long enough, using two locknuts to make sure it won't get loose, to screw in the adapter to inflate. I had a hard time finding 50mm stem in aluminum, but the 46mm red aluminum American Classic stems look very nice and I also found the WTB tcs ones in 48mm.

Anyone who tried tubeless valve stems with these rims could give me a clue on who has the proper valve length out there ?

Thanks


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I used regular length NoTubes valve stems on my DH rims. They don't stick out very far but plenty far enough for every pump, air chuck, and gauge I've used on them.


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## Ratt (Dec 22, 2003)

David C said:


> I'm looking to buy tubeless valve stem for my 33mm wide 30mm deep rims and I'm pretty sure 45mm would be short, 50mm would be better, but how do they usually measure the length of the valve stem ? Is it from where the rubber ends (aka where the stem seal contacts the rim bed) to the tip of the stem ? From measuring this way, using a 45mm presta valve from an old tube, I barely have it long enough, using two locknuts to make sure it won't get loose, to screw in the adapter to inflate. I had a hard time finding 50mm stem in aluminum, but the 46mm red aluminum American Classic stems look very nice and I also found the WTB tcs ones in 48mm.
> 
> Anyone who tried tubeless valve stems with these rims could give me a clue on who has the proper valve length out there ?
> 
> Thanks


Not your rims but a LB 29" 35mm rim with Stan's 35mm stems. These rims have a 25mm depth.


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

David C said:


> I'm looking to buy tubeless valve stem for my 33mm wide 30mm deep rims and I'm pretty sure 45mm would be short, 50mm would be better, but how do they usually measure the length of the valve stem ? Is it from where the rubber ends (aka where the stem seal contacts the rim bed) to the tip of the stem ? From measuring this way, using a 45mm presta valve from an old tube, I barely have it long enough, using two locknuts to make sure it won't get loose, to screw in the adapter to inflate. I had a hard time finding 50mm stem in aluminum, but the 46mm red aluminum American Classic stems look very nice and I also found the WTB tcs ones in 48mm.
> 
> Anyone who tried tubeless valve stems with these rims could give me a clue on who has the proper valve length out there ?
> 
> Thanks


I have your exact rims and Stan's standard MTB stems are just long enough to get the job done


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks, I think I'll go with the 45mm+ valves.


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## kroe (Mar 30, 2009)

Speed Evolution long valves work great. American Classic look nice but break.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

What part of AC valves are breaking ?


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## omoore61 (Jul 16, 2010)

David C said:


> I'm looking to buy tubeless valve stem for my 33mm wide 30mm deep rims and I'm pretty sure 45mm would be short, 50mm would be better, but how do they usually measure the length of the valve stem ? Is it from where the rubber ends (aka where the stem seal contacts the rim bed) to the tip of the stem ? From measuring this way, using a 45mm presta valve from an old tube, I barely have it long enough, using two locknuts to make sure it won't get loose, to screw in the adapter to inflate. I had a hard time finding 50mm stem in aluminum, but the 46mm red aluminum American Classic stems look very nice and I also found the WTB tcs ones in 48mm.
> 
> Anyone who tried tubeless valve stems with these rims could give me a clue on who has the proper valve length out there ?
> 
> Thanks


I've got a set of these on the way, how close was the ERD to the stated 518?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

David C said:


> What part of AC valves are breaking ?


They'll snap right in the middle of the shaft if you're rough with them when removing a pump or over-tightening the nut. Light and cool looking but thin aluminum.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

omoore61 said:


> I've got a set of these on the way, how close was the ERD to the stated 518?


Using the stated 518mm ERD, my spokes where right on. My guess is either I got lucky or these rims are very close to spec. Once I received the hookless replacement rim, I'll measure ERD on it to see if it's constant throughout the circumference of the rim. Should be the exact same rim, just without bed hook. What hubs are you gonna be using ? You might be able to compare spoke lengths with someone using the same hubs and rims.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Lelandjt said:


> They'll snap right in the middle of the shaft if you're rough with them when removing a pump or over-tightening the nut. Light and cool looking but thin aluminum.


So I guess I'll stay away from them. Thanks for the info.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I've been using the 46 AC valve stems for a while now with no issues. The o-rings on the top and bottom give a better seal than others that I've used. Plus they're light and look sweet. I have them on 2 sets of LB 33 wide 26" wheels. I think they will hold up fine unless your rough with them like lelandjt said.


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## omoore61 (Jul 16, 2010)

...


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## mattsavage (Sep 3, 2003)

David C said:


> I'm looking to buy tubeless valve stem for my 33mm wide 30mm deep rims and I'm pretty sure 45mm would be short, 50mm would be better, but how do they usually measure the length of the valve stem ? Is it from where the rubber ends (aka where the stem seal contacts the rim bed) to the tip of the stem ? From measuring this way, using a 45mm presta valve from an old tube, I barely have it long enough, using two locknuts to make sure it won't get loose, to screw in the adapter to inflate. I had a hard time finding 50mm stem in aluminum, but the 46mm red aluminum American Classic stems look very nice and I also found the WTB tcs ones in 48mm.
> 
> Anyone who tried tubeless valve stems with these rims could give me a clue on who has the proper valve length out there ?
> 
> Thanks


Stans Universal will fit fine. I've used them on 30mm deep road rims.


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## mahrous (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi guys
I received my 33mm hookless 26" rims last night. I laced them up to my DTS 350 set with 14mm nipples.
I have plenty of slack in my spokes and can't tension the wheels up. I used the DT Swiss spokes calculator using the 518mm EDR LB provided.
What options do I have now? I have about 3-4mm extra length in my spokes


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

12mm nipples but that might not be enough to take up all the slack.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

mahrous said:


> Hi guys
> I received my 33mm hookless 26" rims last night. I laced them up to my DTS 350 set with 14mm nipples.
> I have plenty of slack in my spokes and can't tension the wheels up. I used the DT Swiss spokes calculator using the 518mm EDR LB provided.
> What options do I have now? I have about 3-4mm extra length in my spokes


Take the spokes to a shop that can resize them.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

mahrous said:


> Hi guys
> I received my 33mm hookless 26" rims last night. I laced them up to my DTS 350 set with 14mm nipples.
> I have plenty of slack in my spokes and can't tension the wheels up. I used the DT Swiss spokes calculator using the 518mm EDR LB provided.
> What options do I have now? I have about 3-4mm extra length in my spokes


Cross 2 or 3? Did u calculate which u were using?


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## doccoraje (Jan 12, 2004)

mahrous said:


> Hi guys
> I received my 33mm hookless 26" rims last night. I laced them up to my DTS 350 set with 14mm nipples.
> I have plenty of slack in my spokes and can't tension the wheels up. I used the DT Swiss spokes calculator using the 518mm EDR LB provided.
> What options do I have now? I have about 3-4mm extra length in my spokes


Same thing here with my 27.5, ERD varies from 565 to 563.
Not so sure that 12 mm nipples will be enough, I'm also using 14 mm and I think I might end shortening the spokes.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I just paid the invoice for shipping the replacement rim ($44.51 USD), so I'll be reporting in a few weeks when I receive the hookless rim. In the meanwhile I'll try to patch my current rim and probably tape over the plug on the other rim when I'll do my tubeless setup for the new tires, just in case the plug decides to loosen up to.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

mahrous said:


> Hi guys
> I received my 33mm hookless 26" rims last night. I laced them up to my DTS 350 set with 14mm nipples.
> I have plenty of slack in my spokes and can't tension the wheels up. I used the DT Swiss spokes calculator using the 518mm EDR LB provided.
> What options do I have now? I have about 3-4mm extra length in my spokes


other than the above-mentioned shorter nipples, and the possibility of getting the spokes shortened (i am not sure of this), i dunno what your options are. i have heard of the existence of nipple washers - maybe they'd take up another quarter mm of slack?

out of interest, what spoke lengths are you using? and what is the rim's ERD when you measure it? are you doing 32 3-cross? is that a 6 bolt or centrelock hub?

i've got a couple 33mm 26" rims (not hookless though) sitting at home, with the same claimed 518mm ERD. I should probably measure them up at some stage - just have no need to build them up yet (flow rims won't die).


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

The ERD on the 33 wide 26" rim should be 518. My spoke length for Hope Pro 2 EVO's and 33 hole 3 cross was 251 if my memory is correct. It was the same for 2 sets of wheels too.


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## mahrous (Dec 6, 2011)

Hi guys,
I made a mistake with the lacing (I am still a beginner at building). 2x laced at first but then repeated with a 3x lace. My rear has 14mm nipples. My front has 12mm nipples. Both are built now. Perfectly true and the tension is nicely balanced (checked with a Park TM-1).
Thanks for all the responses and apologies for my n00b mistake

For spokes lengths, the DT Swiss calculator was spot on. 254mm, 255mm and 256mm for my DT Swiss 350 15mm/12x142mm hubs.

Use Gorilla Tape for the rim tape. Been using it for more than 2 years without any trouble.

My Hans Dampf Evo tires sealed without sealant. Tire mounting was HORRENDOUS - my fingers still hurt from mounting the HD last night.
Today I will mount the Big Betty 2.4 FR Evo on the front - it is much tighter than the HD on my puny 21mm DTS rims. I can only imagine how nasty it will be to mount it. Any tips?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Use NoTubes tape instead of Gorilla. The extra thickness of Gorilla makes it harder to mount tight tires. You'll also save 30g per wheel.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

LOL, I thought it might be a spoke cross issue. That's what I asked earlier. As far as tips for getting the tight tire on, try setting it in the sun for a while. That softens it up and expands it a little. Don't put the rim in the sun though, just the tire. Then some elbow grease with the tire irons. It ain't easy, but it's a nice tight seal when u r done.:thumbsup:

I agree with lelandjt too on the tape. I use Stan's 21mm wide.


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## mahrous (Dec 6, 2011)

Well, I am from Egypt. It's expensive to buy special parts and have them shipped to Egypt. Till then, Gorilla works fine for me and the 30g is hardly a penalty.
Thanks for the tip. Both wheels up and running. First ride tomorrow! Can't bloody wait!


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

mahrous said:


> My Hans Dampf Evo tires sealed without sealant. Tire mounting was HORRENDOUS - my fingers still hurt from mounting the HD last night.
> Today I will mount the Big Betty 2.4 FR Evo on the front - it is much tighter than the HD on my puny 21mm DTS rims. I can only imagine how nasty it will be to mount it. Any tips?


I have the same wheels & tire combo - these are the most difficult rims to mount tires I have ever used - this makes sense since they are very wide and deep - a good, quality pair of plastic tire levers are a worthy investment. Also, check out the Stan's website for tips on tire mounting technique - it is easier to get the tire on/off when the opposite side is not yet fully seated

As previously mentioned, the nice part is once the tire is on, it is ON! I have never burped these


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## kan3 (Nov 11, 2009)

Anyone have opinions on the older 23mm ID 650b wheels that they offer to build up for you? Was thinking of having them build me up a set.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

kan3 said:


> Anyone have opinions on the older 23mm ID 650b wheels that they offer to build up for you? Was thinking of having them build me up a set.


They can build you a set with any rims they offer, even if they show rim only option. Just email them.

From what I heard, build quality isn't impressive (considering the use of carbon rims as being a luxury and not just a standard build), so you'd better build them up yourself or have a local experienced wheelbuilder do it for you. Their spokes are great, but I'm concerned about the lengths they use that can be on the very short side or too long.


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

LB enduro 33mm carbon rim, 36 psi rear, purg 2.3, 2 inch root, sooo bummed, totally surprised. They were great for a while.
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Yea, it happens. I had it happen to my rear a few months ago too, but the good thing is they warrantied it without too much problem. They replaced it with a hookless model too so I think the sidewalls are a little stronger now.


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

Shredman69 said:


> I'm bummed! I went riding today and as I was bombing down the trail, I bunny hopped off a small riser on the trail and when I landed, I heard a loud pop. When I got to the bottom of the trail shortly after, I noticed the tire was low. So when I looked at it, this is what I found. The line down the tire is where the Stan's leaked out when the rim broke. Luckily, I pumped it back up and it held air and stayed straight for the rest of the ride back to my truck, another 6 miles or so. I took it easy though. I already emailed Nancy and Kartrin and got a response that they are on vacation until the 8th. Hopefully they will warranty it. What's weird though is it wasn't anything big. I've taken these rims off drops, jumps, through big rock gardens and they were fine, but it broke on something small. I don't know, maybe I landed on a rock or something. I'm super bummed though because I love these rims. They have been awesome until today, but I guess nothing is indestructible. :cryin:


Exactly what happened to mine in exactly the same place. Harmless looking little root that took them out! I was shocked. Loved them up till now!


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

So im really torn on if ill build up my replacement rim or just try to sell it. Loved these while i rode them but just not sure if i can trust them again after breaking them on our beginner trail (cool-down lap) in such a nothing incident. Cost to rebuild with flows $300. Relace replacement $130. Plus loss of bling and addition of weight. Thoughts???


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## fanderson (Oct 17, 2005)

Gravitythief76 said:


> So im really torn on if ill build up my replacement rim or just try to sell it. Loved these while i rode them but just not sure if i can trust them again after breaking them on our beginner trail (cool-down lap) in such a nothing incident. Cost to rebuild with flows $300. Relace replacement $130. Plus loss of bling and addition of weight. Thoughts???


I cracked my rear within a month of getting them (I had the older "wide" AM version). I was even very careful about my pressures, keeping it over 30 psi, also had a pretty stout tire (DHF 2.5). My front is still going strong after over two years, no issues. My opinion is that that aggressive riders will eventually damage a rear carbon rim. I switched to a Flow EX rear and haven't looked back. The weight savings is just not worth it if it leaves you stranded in a remote location on a huge ride.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I put my replacement 33 wide hookless AM rim on and rode Snow Summit and Mammoth on it. YOLO!!!


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Not sure how replacing your rim with a Flow Ex is $300. The rim goes for about $70, spokes should be about $30, learn to build it yourself (maybe $12 for an online ebook) and another $20 for a local, reputable builder to check your work. 

Eric


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

rugbyred said:


> Not sure how replacing your rim with a Flow Ex is $300. The rim goes for about $70, spokes should be about $30, learn to build it yourself (maybe $12 for an online ebook) and another $20 for a local, reputable builder to check your work.
> 
> Eric


$300 sounds about right. $140 for 2 flow rims, $60 for spokes, maybe $50 for each wheel build.

not everyone has the inclination to build their own wheels. the tools cost a lot too - you can build the tools yourself though.

having said that, despite the reasonably high cost of buying all the tools (>$400), i am so glad i did.


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Sclyde,
I agree with you about not everyone wanting/able to build their own wheels. I am horrible reading directions, bought an online resource, built laced my wheels in about 40min each (I am not mechanically inclined) and brought a case of beer over to a friend for final adjustments. 
My wheel build came in less than $500 for Hope hubs and Sapim spokes. I have three children, everything bike related needs to be done cheap. 
Also, I believe the guy only wanted to replace one wheel. 

Eric


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Gravitythief76 said:


> So im really torn on if ill build up my replacement rim or just try to sell it. Loved these while i rode them but just not sure if i can trust them again after breaking them on our beginner trail (cool-down lap) in such a nothing incident. Cost to rebuild with flows $300. Relace replacement $130. Plus loss of bling and addition of weight. Thoughts???


Is it a 26" 33 wide hookless replacement? If so, how much? Pm me if u want to sell it.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

Gravitythief76 said:


> Cost to rebuild with flows $300.





rugbyred said:


> I believe the guy only wanted to replace one wheel.
> 
> Eric


flows. you missed the s


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

I definitely missed the S on the flows but he did not add one on the rim part!!!


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

rugbyred said:


> I definitely missed the S on the flows but he did not add one on the rim part!!!


The $300 was for two flow ex rims, blue alloy nipples, wheel smith db spokes, stans tape and labor. I have 3 kids too and can relate to the need for do-it-yourself thinking that comes with it, but there are some things I still leave up to my lbs.


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## Gravitythief76 (Mar 13, 2008)

Shredman69 said:


> Is it a 26" 33 wide hookless replacement? If so, how much? Pm me if u want to sell it.


Will do.


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## rugbyred (Aug 31, 2006)

Lesson learned!


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> Is it a 26" 33 wide hookless replacement? If so, how much? Pm me if u want to sell it.


I too have a spare hookless rim... Sell it or buy a second one to build up a new set ?


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

How is the hookless version holding up? Are they more durable?


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

Swissam said:


> How is the hookless version holding up? Are they more durable?


yea, i have a handful of ez rides on them and it feels smoother but now just waiting for that back one to go crack


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Swissam said:


> How is the hookless version holding up? Are they more durable?


So far so good. The side wall is a little bit thicker so I'm sure it's a little stronger. I think the tolerances are a little tighter too. The tires were a little harder to get on, but when I first aired them up, they held air for 2 days without any sealant in them. I rode them in Mammoth Bike Park and Snow Summit off jumps, drops and through rock gardens. No problems...yet.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Shredman69 said:


> So far so good. The side wall is a little bit thicker so I'm sure it's a little stronger. I think the tolerances are a little tighter too. The tires were a little harder to get on, but when I first aired them up, they held air for 2 days without any sealant in them. I rode them in Mammoth Bike Park and Snow Summit off jumps, drops and through rock gardens. No problems...yet.


Thanks for the info. I wonder if the new Schwalbe procore system would help at all.


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## Muchas (Dec 22, 2010)

Swissam said:


> How is the hookless version holding up? Are they more durable?


I'm loving mine, corning is where you really notice it and they have stayed perfectly true!, the only thing is that the rim does seem to mark up with rock/stone strikes, just lacquer marks hopefully no chips. I used Gorilla tape and they hold air well.

Enjoy..


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Swissam said:


> Thanks for the info. I wonder if the new Schwalbe procore system would help at all.


I think that system defeats the purpose of having a light weight tubeless wheel. That system just adds un necessary weight and complexity. A wide carbon hookless rim is strong and has an increased air volume so you can run lower pressures for better traction without worrying about pinch flats. Because the rim is wider and hookless with tighter tolerances, there is no burping or rolling the tire on the rim either. I've yet to burp or roll the tire on the rim with these new wheels even when railing high speed turns and lower pressures, (20-22 in front and 25-28 in the rear). I love these wheels. And for those that don't know, Light Bikes is now making 38mm wide X 32mm deep 26" rims. I ordered mine a couple days ago, so I'll post how they are when I get them.:thumbsup:


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## hssp (Aug 28, 2007)

If you normally run Super Gravity tires, you can go for normal tires without worrying about rock strikes etc. So if you run normal tires just fine, the ProCore system is not for you.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

My front rim plug also failed, I emailed LB about it and it's going to their engineers. Should have a reply in the next days regarding replacement (rims were delivered a week short from 12 months now). Otherwise the wheels have been flawless and makes the bike awesome.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Shredman69 said:


> I think that system defeats the purpose of having a light weight tubeless wheel. That system just adds un necessary weight and complexity. A wide carbon hookless rim is strong and has an increased air volume so you can run lower pressures for better traction without worrying about pinch flats. Because the rim is wider and hookless with tighter tolerances, there is no burping or rolling the tire on the rim either. I've yet to burp or roll the tire on the rim with these new wheels even when railing high speed turns and lower pressures, (20-22 in front and 25-28 in the rear). I love these wheels. And for those that don't know, Light Bikes is now making 38mm wide X 32mm deep 26" rims. I ordered mine a couple days ago, so I'll post how they are when I get them.:thumbsup:





hssp said:


> If you normally run Super Gravity tires, you can go for normal tires without worrying about rock strikes etc. So if you run normal tires just fine, the ProCore system is not for you.


At 200g a piece your right that it's not worth it for an AM rig but for a DH rig it's manageable. If they weighed 50g a piece then that's a whole other story and would be totally acceptable for AM. Especially in the Alps. 


David C said:


> My front rim plug also failed, I emailed LB about it and it's going to their engineers. Should have a reply in the next days regarding replacement (rims were delivered a week short from 12 months now). Otherwise the wheels have been flawless and makes the bike awesome.


Was this one of the new hookless rims?


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

David C said:


> I didn't wanted to have to tape the rim for tubeless.
> View attachment 899094
> 
> 
> View attachment 899095


I'm trying to figure out how I want to go tubless with my LB hookless 33mm wide DH rims. How do you not use rim tape? Don't you have to cover the spoke holes?


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

702Biff said:


> I'm trying to figure out how I want to go tubless with my LB hookless 33mm wide DH rims. How do you not use rim tape? Don't you have to cover the spoke holes?


Have them made without interior spoke holes.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

mestapho said:


> Have them made without interior spoke holes.


I assume this is a joke? I am kinda new to this but how to install nipples then? And I didn't know that was an option.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

702Biff said:


> I assume this is a joke? I am kinda new to this but how to install nipples then? And I didn't know that was an option.


Not a joke. You insert them through the valve hole and with a magnet or other methods fish them around to where they go.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

OK. I see, everyone wants to be the funny guy.......


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

see here - (Cheap) Chinese Carbon Rims? - Page 222


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

WOW! 

That is absolutely nuts. I am quite sure I don't have the patience for that (no rubik's cube or little ball rolling thru the maze games for me either). By the way... aluminum & brass are non-ferrous, magnet won't work.

Apologies for the comedian comment 8>)


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Hmmmm..... Actually after some thought, if you were to fish some heavy fishing line through the spoke hole to the valve hole and thru the nipple you could fish it in then just clip the line leaving a small piece of line in the wheel which could likely be retrieved if so desired. That wouldn't be sooooo crazy I recon.


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

702Biff said:


> WOW!
> 
> That is absolutely nuts. I am quite sure I don't have the patience for that (no rubik's cube or little ball rolling thru the maze games for me either). By the way... aluminum & brass are non-ferrous, magnet won't work.
> 
> Apologies for the comedian comment 8>)


There a little steel doohickey they make that threads into the nipple for this purpose. However, for whatever reason, a magnet will help move an AL nipple in the rim. I had to do this when I dropped a couple into the spoke hole. Not enough to pull it out, but enough to hold it still so I could get it aligned with the valve hole and drop it out. Shouldn't work, but it did. Must be a little iron in the alloy.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Ahhh. Steel doohickey...even better idea.

Boy...learn sumthin new every day!


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## mestapho (Sep 3, 2011)

See here


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

:thumbsup:


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Only the deep section DH rims can be done without internal nipple holes. All the other LB rims including their newest, widest model don't have enough internal vertical room. If you do the non-drilled style I recommend the derailleur cable method that I outlined previously in this thread.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> I recommend the derailleur cable method that I outlined previously in this thread.


This thread is quite large. Could you please re-post the method you recommend?
Thanks!


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Stick derailleur cable in the spoke hole and push till you see it from the interior valve hole (if it seems like it should be there but you don't see it spin it and you'll see it).
Grab it with tweezers and pull it up out of the interior valve hole.
Slide a nipple on and use gravity and shaking to slide the nipple to the spoke hole.
Position the rim so gravity helps bring the nipple through the hole and push on either end of the cable to arch it inside and position the nipple to slide out the spoke hole.

I can lace a rim like this in an hour or so cuz it sometimes slides right into place or you sometimes have to jiggle it a while. Basically 1 to 2 minutes a nipple plus whatever time it takes you to figure out where to go next and lace the spoke through.

It would be hard to justify spending the money to have a wheel builder do this cuz it only saves a couple grams and good tape jobs rarely leak. If you're building your own wheels it's a cool little feature to add.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Great! 

As you say it's not totally necessary but I think I'll do this on my next LB wheel build. Currently my tires are so tight against the inside of the rim that it's easy to mess up the tape job + it will make for slightly easier tire mounting.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Swissam said:


> Was this one of the new hookless rims?


Nope, one of the first batch of the 33mm wide rims. It appears that the tube pushing against the rim bed broke off the plug, as it only occurred after I ran tubes in, not while I was going tubeless.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

I just had to order some new 33mm hookless wheels due to bike theft. I'm curious though, are you guys still running a UST tire considering that there is no longer a bead seat? 

I'm really curious to try out some Conti Trail King 2.2's.....but not sure if I should go the UST route or not based on the hookless....


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

No longer a bead seat? It still has a central channel and a shelf the bead pops up onto right (that's what I'd call the bead seat)? All that's changed is the lack of a hook at the top of the sidewall, which has been deemed unnecessary and weakening...right? On the 33mm and 35mm rims I've run Maxxis DH casing and Exo casing tires. Some of the Exo casings said "TR" some didn't.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Sorry, perhaps "seat" wasn't the right word. Ultimately, I just want to make sure that somehow somewhere I didn't miss where hookless rims are supposed to now use hookless tires or something. Just curious. 

Sounds like standard UST tires should be fine.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

U don't need UST tires. They heavier and unnessary. Any tires will do. I've never used UST tires on my hooked or hookless rims and have never had any issues.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Wait...what? If I want to run my wheels tubeless, why wouldn't I run UST tires? I couldn't run a clincher tire on a hookless rim, so what option does that leave me?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> Wait...what? If I want to run my wheels tubeless, why wouldn't I run UST tires? I couldn't run a clincher tire on a hookless rim, so what option does that leave me?


LOL, I've been running tubeless since 06 and I've never run UST tires, just regular, (clincher) tires. UST tires are way heavier than it's regular counter part. The beads are the same, but UST use more rubber and they're not porous. Most tires nowadays, are tubeless ready though, still lighter than UST. I currently have 2 sets of 33 wide hookless wheels and a pair of 38 wide hookless on the way..


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> LOL, I've been running tubeless since 06 and I've never run UST tires, just regular tires. UST tires are way heavier then it's regular counter part. The beads are the same, but UST use more rubber and they're not porous. Most tires nowadays, are tubeless ready though, still lighter than UST.


My understanding is that UST tires don't need to run sealant....bonus. They're not porous and don't leak air while sitting in the garage....bonus. They are heavier....bummer.

You're saying that a clincher tire and UST tire have the exact same beads? I could run a clincher tire on these hookless LB rims?


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## skyno (Jan 9, 2012)

You don't need "UST" tires, which is a strict standard and they are very heavy and bulky, but if you ride at all aggressively I would strongly recommend only running some type of tubeless compatible tire (TCS, 2bliss, etc.) - I believe the difference is that with true UST the seal is so tight and the tires so thick that sealant is actually optional, but with all the other systems sealant is needed

I have tried running tires that are not compatible several times always with disastrous results!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> My understanding is that UST tires don't need to run sealant....bonus. They're not porous and don't leak air while sitting in the garage....bonus. They are heavier....bummer.
> 
> You're saying that a clincher tire and UST tire have the exact same beads? I could run a clincher tire on these hookless LB rims?


Yes, you can run a regular "clincher" tire tubless on a hookless rim. I currently have 2 sets of 33 wide hookless wheels and a pair of 38 wide hookless on the way.. I run low pressures and I ride them aggressively and I haven't had any issues. I have raced DH on them and I've recently been to Mammoth and Snow Summit bike parks, again without any problems. 2oz of Stan's per tire is what I use.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

A thicker casing is definitely a plus for aggressive riding. Whether that's UST, double ply DH, or "1& 1/2 ply" enduro style casings like Exo. I'm even starting to think Maxxis Exos are too skimpy. The LB rims have a pretty secure fit so any bead works well. It's more an issue of sidewall support at lowish pressures.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

So let me get this straight. You're saying that clincher and UST tires can both be run tubeless on a hookless rim? The only structural difference is that UST tires are essentially a thicker (and, thus, heavier) design, enabling them to be run w/o sealant? And the UST tires have a thicker/stronger sidewall to prevent burps/blowouts? 

I thought clincher tires had no bead, while UST tires did....which were needed to run tubeless. That's why I've run UST tires for the past couple years. My Fat Albert's definitely were very heavy, and it would be nice to run a lighter tire on the hookless setup. I wouldn't consider my riding highly aggressive by any means.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> So let me get this straight. You're saying that clincher and UST tires can both be run tubeless on a hookless rim? The only structural difference is that UST tires are essentially a thicker (and, thus, heavier) design, enabling them to be run w/o sealant? And the UST tires have a thicker/stronger sidewall to prevent burps/blowouts?
> 
> Yes, except the burps part. Because the LB hookless rims are wide and have a really tight rim bed, they don't burp, regardless if the tire is regular or UST.
> 
> I thought clincher tires had no bead, while UST tires did....which were needed to run tubeless. That's why I've run UST tires for the past couple years. My Fat Albert's definitely were very heavy, and it would be nice to run a lighter tire on the hookless setup. I wouldn't consider my riding highly aggressive by any means.


Clincher tires do have a bead, folding or wire.

What's a Clincher Tire? | Road Bike Rider


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> Clincher tires do have a bead, folding or wire.
> 
> What's a Clincher Tire? | Road Bike Rider


"In a clincher, wire or Kevlar runs along the edge on either side of the tire. This "bead" fits under the hooked inner edge of the rim when the tube is inflated. It holds the tire in place"

So if the rim doesn't have a hooked inner edge, like these new LB rims, nothing holds the tire on except just the "tightness" of the internal diameter of the tire. Thus, since UST tires are made with a much tighter ID tolerance, I would expect that UST tires would be a better choice for hookless rims.

Sorry guys, unless I'm clearly missing something....


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> So if the rim doesn't have a hooked inner edge, like these new LB rims, nothing holds the tire on except just the "tightness" of the internal diameter of the tire. Thus, since UST tires are made with a much tighter ID tolerance, I would expect that UST tires would be a better choice for hookless rims.
> 
> Sorry guys, unless I'm clearly missing something....


From my experience with LB rims - they are "tubeless ready". Fitting any tire is extremely tight. I believe it is impossible to mount some brands of tires. I could no way mount a Kenda tire on them for example. So tight in fact that preserving a good tape job is quite difficult. I will buy them again but next time have them NOT drill the inner spoke holes so as to eliminate the tape problem. I do really like the performance of these rims.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

702Biff said:


> From my experience with LB rims - they are "tubeless ready". Fitting any tire is extremely tight. I believe it is impossible to mount some brands of tires. I could no way mount a Kenda tire on them for example. So tight in fact that preserving a good tape job is quite difficult. I will buy them again but next time have them NOT drill the inner spoke holes so as to eliminate the tape problem. I do really like the performance of these rims.


That's what I had them do on my first set I ordered from then. You'll be in for a real treat getting those laced up


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> That's what I had them do on my first set I ordered from then. You'll be in for a real treat getting those laced up


So then from your experience would you prefer to tape or order non drilled?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

702Biff said:


> From my experience with LB rims - they are "tubeless ready". Fitting any tire is extremely tight. I believe it is impossible to mount some brands of tires. I could no way mount a Kenda tire on them for example. So tight in fact that preserving a good tape job is quite difficult. I will buy them again but next time have them NOT drill the inner spoke holes so as to eliminate the tape problem. I do really like the performance of these rims.


I've mounted Kenda, Maxxis and Intense tires on my LB 33mm wide hookless rims without issue. Yes they are tight, but I've never messed up a tape job either. It helps to set your tires, (not the rims) out in the sun to heat them up. They will expand and be more plyable. The pics below are the most recent. I use stans 12mm yellow tape so it only covers the spoke holes in the channel. It won't get in the way of the bead that way. Those are my most recent set below with 2.5 Intense Edge tires.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Admittedly I'm a rookie and could apply more patience. If you did it then it can be done....with a boatload of patience, because they are extremely tight.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

My other wheelset with Kendas mounted. They currently have a 2.5 Maxxis Minion's DHF on them.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Did you order the graphics or do that afterwards? ...and what tire levers do you use? :madman:


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Am I seeing LB rims that have ENVE stickers put on them?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

702Biff said:


> So then from your experience would you prefer to tape or order non drilled?


Tape. I built and laced the wheels, took to a shop to true. Both ways, it's a ridiculous amount of work. I spent many hours threading nipples around the wheels with floss. HOURS.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> Am I seeing LB rims that have ENVE stickers put on them?


LOL, custom graphics. They are my LB "CHENVY'S". I actually think they are better than ENVY's. They are lighter, wider and you can change a spoke or true a wheel on the trail, (ENVY nipples are not exposed so you have to take the tire off to make any spoke adjustments) and they are boatloads cheaper. I just like the ENVY graphics though.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

702Biff said:


> Did you order the graphics or do that afterwards? ...and what tire levers do you use? :madman:


I have a few Oakley plastic levers. The custom graphics went on after the wheels were built, but before the tires went on.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase: 

2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.

I'm hoping the collective wisdom of MTBR can help me out, since I used you all to feel confident in the purchase...

Here are my other observations: 
The WTB tires were almost impossible to mount. And while they sealed right up with a pump, they were very difficult to get the bead to slide up onto the rim shoulder and seat against the rim wall. Requiring several inflate/deflate cycles, lotsa soap and lots of working on it. This is with 1 wrap of gorilla tape.

The conti full seated at 65 psi, but required a compressor to do so.

You need to buy the longer "road" tubeless valve stems and then make sure your "backup" tubes are long valved as well.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

On my 33mm DH rims I'm using standard 35mm NoTubes valves with no problems getting a pump or air chuck on for the last year and a half but perhaps I've just gotten lucky and haven't encountered a pump that wants to slide farther on.
Pinch flats are a function of the tire, pressure, and impact. Radical changes in rim width could have an effect but a 26mm rim is pretty standard. Use a burlier casing, more pressure, or hit stuff less hard. Gorilla tape is pretty thick (and heavy). Rewrap those rims with 25mm NoTubes tape to save weight and make tire changes easier.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

laksboy said:


> Just recently took delivery of a set of LB 26" 33mm wide hookless rims. So far I am questioning my purchase:
> 
> 2 rides, 2 JRA "fatal" rear pinch flats. The first on a WTB wierwolf which sealed up with stans at a low psi and I was able to limp gingerly home. Today a Conti Mtn King, an hour and a half from home 100 yds into the descent and had to walk (turns out std tube valve stems are not long enough to work with the deep dish LB rims). But seriously, while I was going downhill I didn't hit anything hard. And I was running at 30psi.
> 
> ...


Im a little confused, are you running tubeless or with tubes? You said you got a pinch flat but you are using stans? If you are running tubes, get rid of them and you can't get pinch flats. If you are talking about cuts in your tire, you must be riding in some sharp rock gardens. If that's the case, that's not the rims fault, it's the tire. 30lbs is kind of high for a tubeless setup. A little less pressure might help the tire conform around a sharp rock unstead of puncturing a tire carcass that has higher pressure. Also Lelandjt is right. Use Stans tape, it's much thinner and lighter than gorilla tape and it makes the tire easier to install. But I use the narrower 12mm tape that only covers the spoke channel, it makes tire installs even easier since the tape doesn't ride up the sides above the channel. I've had a few tires get punctures in sharp rock gardens at places like "follow me" and "Bullet" at Mammoth bike park, but that's just part of the game, it happens. I did get the tires to eventually seal, but it took some time. I also carry a 2oz bottle of Stan's with me and a valve core removal tool in case I need to add some in on the trail in cases like yours.


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

tubeless with stans. And you absolutely can get snakebite with tubeless tires. There's a chip (now 2 chips actually) in the rim and a small hole right at the rim and 1 in the tread. Identical on both new tires. Stans was spitting out both holes. When I tried adding more air, it just caused more stans to spray out. Do I need to be more patient with the Stans? Let it dry before trying to pump in more air? I had the wheel at the low point...

Rocks are sharp, but like I said earlier, I didn't hit anything hard. I gave up on tubeless 10 years ago for similar reasons after getting "snakebite" style unfixable holes in $65 tires. I've been running tubes in old UST rims since then until I got the LB's 2 weeks ago. When running tubes, I KNOW when I pinch flat, because I just hit something hard and "felt" it. In both of these cases, I didn't hit anything hard, but like I said, definitely snakebite.

Basically, I'm really frustrated. And I appreciate any input/advice. All I can think of at the moment is to get a heavier tire and try 35 psi...



Shredman69 said:


> Im a little confused, are you running tubeless or with tubes? You said you got a pinch flat but you are using stans? If you are running tubes, get rid of them and you can't get pinch flats. If you are talking about cuts in your tire, you must be riding in some sharp rock gardens. If that's the case, that's not the rims fault, it's the tire. 30lbs is kind of high for a tubeless setup. A little less pressure might help the tire conform around a sharp rock unstead of puncturing a tire carcass that has higher pressure. Also Lelandjt is right. Use Stans tape, it's much thinner and lighter than gorilla tape and it makes the tire easier to install. But I use the narrower 12mm tape that only covers the spoke channel, it makes tire installs even easier since the tape doesn't ride up the sides above the channel. I've had a few tires get punctures in sharp rock gardens at places like "follow me" and "Bullet" at Mammoth bike park, but that's just part of the game, it happens. I did get the tires to eventually seal, but it took some time. I also carry a 2oz bottle of Stan's with me and a valve core removal tool in case I need to add some in on the trail in cases like yours.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

I repair punctured tires by cleaning, applying a standard style tube patch, putting a tube in for half an hour to press the patch on, then putting the valve and sealant back in. A puncture right in the middle of the tire means you need a burlier casing for your rocks and speeds. I did that at the Keystone enduro. A puncture from a snakebite situation (lower sidewall or along the outer row of knobs means you need either a burlier casing or more pressure and you should count yourself lucky that the impact, while enough to cut the tire, wasn't quite enough to crack the rim. I cracked a rim at the Crested Butte enduro trying to run a little less pressure than normal.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I am no carbon fan, but it seems like you need to read Derby website. A lot of good info. I don't even own carbon rims and I know a) you need long valve stems so you don't hose yourself. Long rim valves and spare tube. B) small rim gouges and cracks don't seem to ruin the integrity of cheaper carbon rims. C) if you use lighter tires, they get cut in rocks, Conti does not have the best reputation on MTBR as a LONG LASTING tire. If I were riding a lot of rocks (I do), I would use a tire with proper sidewalls (I do, and unfortunately for me they weigh more). If you read DERBY info, you will be bummed you waited until all of these problems. My opinion, is that you will enjoy tubeless better, once you are dialed. I too was a late adopter, and I am very happy. Oh, those tips about Stan's tape above make sense too. I used Stan's tape from the get go, so I wouldn't know about Gorilla tape (seems silly to use Gorilla tape, when I can buy purpose made rim tape).


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## laksboy (Sep 4, 2007)

good advice on the puncture repair. thanks. I have both tires inflated with tubes and 2 patches each at 50 psi. Since i have 2 small dings in the rim, I have to assume that I am lucky I didn't do more damage. Looks like I am headed for 35 psi on trails with rocks...



Lelandjt said:


> I repair punctured tires by cleaning, applying a standard style tube patch, putting a tube in for half an hour to press the patch on, then putting the valve and sealant back in. A puncture right in the middle of the tire means you need a burlier casing for your rocks and speeds. I did that at the Keystone enduro. A puncture from a snakebite situation (lower sidewall or along the outer row of knobs means you need either a burlier casing or more pressure and you should count yourself lucky that the impact, while enough to cut the tire, wasn't quite enough to crack the rim. I cracked a rim at the Crested Butte enduro trying to run a little less pressure than normal.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Make sure you are certain of your pressure by using a digit gauge and using it frequently to account for leaks and changes in temperature. Gradually drop pressure until you hear your rims occasionally touching the ground. You'll get a feel for what pressure you can get away with depending on tire and terrain. I run 4psi less in the front because I hit that wheel less hard. 30 front, 34 rear is a good starting point.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

laksboy said:


> tubeless with stans. And you absolutely can get snakebite with tubeless tires. There's a chip (now 2 chips actually) in the rim and a small hole right at the rim and 1 in the tread. Identical on both new tires. Stans was spitting out both holes. When I tried adding more air, it just caused more stans to spray out. Do I need to be more patient with the Stans? Let it dry before trying to pump in more air? I had the wheel at the low point...


I ventured into the wide internal width market, and it didn't go well for me either. I think we're all in agreement that wider internal width increases the volume of air inside the tire, yes? If you think of a tire as an undamped air spring, this makes it *easier* to bottom out tires on wider rims, because the air spring is not as progressive as it would be on a skinnier rim for a given tire. I could consistently bottom supposedly "DH" wider rims at 32psi (on Maxxis TR and Specialized Grid casing), when this was just not a problem for me at 25mm or lower internal width rims. I suspect that two things must happen for wider rims to truly make it in the DH market: 1) Tire profiles must change and 2) The Procore system and its competitors must come down in price.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Yea, I've had the opposite experience. When I rode skinnier rims, I had tire roll, burping and dings in my rims. I had to run higher pressures to prevent the tire from squirming and burping, but then I lost traction and it was sketchy. Now with wide carbon rims, I run less pressure, I have more traction and no squirming or burping, they are lighter, stiffer and stay true. All win win for me. And that procore system defeats the purpose of running tubless. It just adds weight and complexity. I think a better internal rim shape like the Stans Hugo 52 would be a better idea than the procore system. If that rim was carbon and 35-40 wide, it would be awesome.

Hugo 52


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I think if I were Schwalbe, I would invest in a rim company, because average people are going to destroy rims with that system (procore), mostly by side load, tire squirm rim hits. There are a lot of average people. I haven't tried it, so maybe I'm wrong. But I don't think I'm wrong.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

I don't see how even the worst hack could hope to achieve the forces that, foot out flat out, Sam Hill is delivering to his wheels.










And Syntace brought the system to Schwalbe.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I was talking about the PROCORE video of tire at 12 PSI, folding over. A lot of average riders run 15 to 20 psi, and don't take the best line to avoid rocks. I think Sam Hill runs PSI pressure for racing, not comfort. I think Sam Hill takes better lines than the average rider. Most people want a few seasons out of a rim. Sam Hill needs a rim to last 10 minutes or a season.


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## half_man_half_scab (Mar 7, 2006)

But you were talking to tire squirm, not rim durability. He's running 22 psi here.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I was making a comment regarding the video of Shwalbe PROCORE. Did you measure his PSI? How do you KNOW it is 22 anyway? I don't doubt you personally, I watch a lot of Tour De France and all those riders keep bike info secret, or lie about their setup to throw off other competitors. Maybe Mt Bikers are genuine. Who knows.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

Basically, I googled schwalbe PROCORE, watched the 2 minute video, made the comment a lot of rims may be destroyed. Watch the tire all folded up on a rock, then get back to me as to wether or not you would run your carbon fiber rims at that PSI. I wouldn't. I have to buy anything I break.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Keep in mind the difference between DH casings and the EXOish casings most people in this thread are using.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

half_man_half_scab said:


> I ventured into the wide internal width market, and it didn't go well for me either. I think we're all in agreement that wider internal width increases the volume of air inside the tire, yes? If you think of a tire as an undamped air spring, this makes it *easier* to bottom out tires on wider rims, because the air spring is not as progressive as it would be on a skinnier rim for a given tire. I could consistently bottom supposedly "DH" wider rims at 32psi (on Maxxis TR and Specialized Grid casing), when this was just not a problem for me at 25mm or lower internal width rims. I suspect that two things must happen for wider rims to truly make it in the DH market: 1) Tire profiles must change and 2) The Procore system and its competitors must come down in price.


yeah, i have thought that, due to the larger volume in wider tyres/rims, the increased air volume would possibly result in a less progressive (or more linear) force acting against outside forces pushing the tyre towards the rim. when i thought about it a bit more though, the volume in the tyre that is compressed would be proportionally larger in a wider tyre/rim too (as the compressed volume is wider too), so maybe that cancels it out. ??



Shredman69 said:


> .... And that procore system defeats the purpose of running tubless. It just adds weight and complexity. I think a better internal rim shape like the Stans Hugo 52 would be a better idea than the procore system....


i haven't used the procore system, but based on how it is described, it seems to provide an extra element of progressiveness to the spring rate inherent in the tyre, to reduce bottom out of the tyre on the rim, which would help meet one of the usual objectives of running tubeless, which is to reduce flats, specifically pinch flats.

are you not finding procore to reduce pinch flats? you sound like you have used it. i didn't know it was available yet.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Shredman69 said:


> LOL, custom graphics. They are my LB "CHENVY'S". I actually think they are better than ENVY's. They are lighter, wider and you can change a spoke or true a wheel on the trail, (ENVY nipples are not exposed so you have to take the tire off to make any spoke adjustments) and they are boatloads cheaper. I just like the ENVY graphics though.


I did the same thing on a pair I bought last year. I had designed my own in the ENVE style using my initials. Getting them made was turning into a headache and major expense. Eventually I gave up and bought ENVE stickers from slikgraphics.com in custom colors. Not trying to fool anyone, I just like the look and I hope the guys at ENVE will be happy to get the free advertising. I also enjoy the irony of a sticker that says "Envy" on an ENVE knock off.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Lol, I got mine at Slik Graphics too!


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

I believe that ENVY rims are a great product, hell, even built in Utah...that's great. But with the rash of cheap carbon rims hitting the market ENVY is going to have a hard time keeping those prices. Fact is there is really no way to tell if ENVY is even really any better than these cheaper rims...or even as good!? For the price I can buy a fleet of cheap Chinese carbon...or a single ENVY. I had my cheap Chinese rims built by some a**hole rode them fairly hard at Bootleg 4 times then got a Park spoke tension gauge in the mail so just checked the tension. At least 6 spokes on my rear wheel had ZERO tension and not a single spoke had nearly 1/2 the tension recommended. The front was similar. With all the hits the rims took they held together. I'm sold on cheap Chinese rims.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

38's up in here, whoop whoop!!! Both 420g on the money. I'm going to lace these up, just like my other 33 wide's with my Hope Pro 2 Evo's with DT Super Comps and Aluminum nips.:cornut:


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## Gab344 (Oct 14, 2009)

I have some of those 38mm LB rim otw also. Can you confirm the ERD . I'm building on to hope hubs also, but I'm reluctant to order spokes untill I know for sure! ( I've seen three differing offical LB figures for these rims ranging from 515 to 510) Thanks!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Gab344 said:


> I have some of those 38mm LB rim otw also. Can you confirm the ERD . I'm building on to hope hubs also, but I'm reluctant to order spokes untill I know for sure! ( I've seen three differing offical LB figures for these rims ranging from 515 to 510) Thanks!


They told me 515 also. My LBS will confirm it before they build them. I'll let u know when I find out.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Gab344 said:


> I have some of those 38mm LB rim otw also. Can you confirm the ERD . I'm building on to hope hubs also, but I'm reluctant to order spokes untill I know for sure! ( I've seen three differing offical LB figures for these rims ranging from 515 to 510) Thanks!


Rule #1: get the rim, get the hub, measure, THEN order the spokes. Ok maybe not rule 1, but it is so worth the extra week it will cost you. It's brutal to get the rim and not be able to build it that day but it's worth the wait.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Hey shredman, can you post up some pics when you get tires mounted?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

RTM said:


> Hey shredman, can you post up some pics when you get tires mounted?


Yep, will do. I'm working now so I prob won't get them to my LBS until this weekend, but I'll def post them when they are done being built and I mount the tires.:thumbsup:


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Shredman69 said:


> Yep, will do. I'm working now so I prob won't get them to my LBS until this weekend, but I'll def post them when they are done being built and I mount the tires.:thumbsup:


sweet, thanks. and if you don't mind, let me know the built up weight of the wheels. I'm considering the same build. Hope Pro 2 rear, supercomp & alum. nipples. Curious what the total weight ends up being. i'm guessing around 1,600 grams which is pretty darn light.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

RTM said:


> sweet, thanks. and if you don't mind, let me know the built up weight of the wheels. I'm considering the same build. Hope Pro 2 rear, supercomp & alum. nipples. Curious what the total weight ends up being. i'm guessing around 1,600 grams which is pretty darn light.


Sure. My 33 wide AM wheelset with the same build came out to 1,530 and those rims were 370g each. I'll post the weight of this set after they are built.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Just ordered some 26in, 35mm wide, hookless NEXTIE-BIKE rims. Went with the lighter version for the front wheel, and the AM version for the rear wheel.

Going to lace them to a BHS front hub, and my existing i9 torch rear hub. 

Looking forward to the build and I will report in when I am finished.


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## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

y0bailey said:


> Just ordered some 26in, 35mm wide, hookless NEXTIE-BIKE rims. Went with the lighter version for the front wheel, and the AM version for the rear wheel.
> 
> Going to lace them to a BHS front hub, and my existing i9 torch rear hub.
> 
> Looking forward to the build and I will report in when I am finished.


How much was shipping for the 2 rims? It looks like it's cheaper than getting them from Light Bicycle - which is about $70-80.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

expatrider said:


> How much was shipping for the 2 rims? It looks like it's cheaper than getting them from Light Bicycle - which is about $70-80.


Basically the same. $69 for 4 rims (but I think it would have been $69 regardless of 1 or 4 rims). My buddy and I split an order to save on shipping costs.


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## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

y0bailey said:


> Basically the same. $69 for 4 rims (but I think it would have been $69 regardless of 1 or 4 rims). My buddy and I split an order to save on shipping costs.


OK - I paid $71 for 4 rims from LB, so yeah, about the same. Rims are priced similarly also. Have you used the Nextie rims before? Specs look the same; they are in same City as LB; is this the same company as LB, just with a different name to give appearance of competition?


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

expatrider said:


> OK - I paid $71 for 4 rims from LB, so yeah, about the same. Rims are priced similarly also. Have you used the Nextie rims before? Specs look the same; they are in same City as LB; is this the same company as LB, just with a different name to give appearance of competition?


I chose Nextie over LB due to better website design and better customer service responses to my emails. Also 2yr warranty vs. 1 year warranty.

Just had a better feeling about the Nextie rims deep down in my jangles.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey ya'll, question for you:

Trying to seat some Conti TK's on my 33mm wide LB rims. Just received in the AC 46mm tubeless valves, and I've got those all installed. Tires are on, but I'm finding that since the valve is essentially the exact same overall width as the center channel of the rim, the tire cannot "wrap around" the valve. Because of this, 98% of the tire sits in the center channel of the rim, but that last 2% is elevated up onto the ridge around the valve. Which means there's a small gap on both sides of the tire right next to the valve, not enabling me to blow air into the tire to get it up on the bead shelf. 

No air leak from/through the valve or from my air compressor hose at 125psi. It's just these gaps near the valve where the tire bead can't wrap around it. 

Very frustrated, have been trying to use my whole body practically to get a seal near the valve, but no dice. Air keeps leaking out. 

Thoughts?


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

chrisingrassia said:


> Hey ya'll, question for you:
> 
> Trying to seat some Conti TK's on my 33mm wide LB rims. Just received in the AC 46mm tubeless valves, and I've got those all installed. Tires are on, but I'm finding that since the valve is essentially the exact same overall width as the center channel of the rim, the tire cannot "wrap around" the valve. Because of this, 98% of the tire sits in the center channel of the rim, but that last 2% is elevated up onto the ridge around the valve. Which means there's a small gap on both sides of the tire right next to the valve, not enabling me to blow air into the tire to get it up on the bead shelf.
> 
> ...


given that those aren't schwalbes (which are notoriously tight fitting), are you able to pull the tyre bead out of the centre channel and out onto the "shelf" closer to the sides of the rim?

if that is not possible, can you push one side out there before you mount the other side of the tyre on the rim? at least that would halve your leakage problem.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

sclyde2 said:


> can you push one side out .


set one side with a tube maybe ?


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## expatrider (Feb 1, 2005)

chrisingrassia said:


> Hey ya'll, question for you:
> 
> Trying to seat some Conti TK's on my 33mm wide LB rims. Just received in the AC 46mm tubeless valves, and I've got those all installed. Tires are on, but I'm finding that since the valve is essentially the exact same overall width as the center channel of the rim, the tire cannot "wrap around" the valve. Because of this, 98% of the tire sits in the center channel of the rim, but that last 2% is elevated up onto the ridge around the valve. Which means there's a small gap on both sides of the tire right next to the valve, not enabling me to blow air into the tire to get it up on the bead shelf.
> 
> ...


You just need to seat the beads by putting a tube in for a couple hours. Then unseat one side of the tire, take tube out, re-inflate.


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## sclyde2 (Mar 21, 2004)

natrat said:


> set one side with a tube maybe ?


yeah, that'd work. but i didn't think it would be necessary. i thought you'd be able to just push/pull it. those aren't tubeless(UST) tyres are they? IIRC, the trail king (2.2, not UST) i have didn't fit that tight on one of those wide LB rims (33mm i think, just before the newer hookless ones). maybe they are a bit old though, maybe the bead is stretched. note: i am running a tube on this combo, so i don't have first hand experience of mounting this tyre on that rim tubeless. when i did run that tyre tubeless on a flow rim, i found that it wasn't very good at holding air (a lot of those conti's are a bit porous). maybe the newer Tks are more air-tight.

i also thought that the little ridge on the edge of the rim's centre channel would be enough to stop the tyre sliding back into the centre channel. if this is not the case, maybe this idea (of pulling the bead out onto the shelf) won't work.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

So I don't know what it about jumping online and *****ing about seating tires, but I just got the first tire to inflate and pop the beads up on the shelf. I used an old j-spoke to tuck under the bead and "pull" it off the valve on both sides. Then, I laid my whole forearm over the tire and pushed down really hard, have it a shot of air for 3 seconds and poof, it inflated right up.

I had fat Alberts on my last set of 33s, and they were MUCH tighter than these trail kings. I've read good things about the black chili design though. So here's crossing my fingers.

Thanks for the tips though everyone. You're invaluable. However, pulling the bead up onto the rim shelf by hand definitely would not have been possible.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Did you remove the valve core to get air in faster? Also the AC valves in side shape isn't conducive to inflating tires. WTB makes colored aluminum valves in two lengths that have the same kind of rubber cone as NoTubes valves. This seems to make the tire fit in the channel better and directs air into the tire.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Lelandjt said:


> Did you remove the valve core to get air in faster? Also the AC valves in side shape isn't conducive to inflating tires. WTB makes colored aluminum valves in two lengths that have the same kind of rubber cone as NoTubes valves. This seems to make the tire fit in the channel better and directs air into the tire.


Yes, absolutely I did. Removed that and used my air compressor attachment that's a little nozzle, fits perfectly inside the valve stem. I actually really like these AC valve design with the flared ends over the NoTubes/etc because it's practically impossible to overtighten the external nut and pull the valve loose of the rubber. They are awesome. I had all sorts of air leaks issues with the NoTubes version on my most recent set of 33's.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

I love the AC's too, the big o-ring seals perfectly and the curved spacer on the top fits the rim profile and the nut is easy to get on nice and tight by hand. That's the only presta I'll use. I only wish they came in other colors. I like the red, but I'll be building up my new 38's all black and I'd like to get them in black, but oh well. Red will have to do.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> I love the AC's too, the big o-ring seals perfectly and the curved spacer on the top fits the rim profile and the nut is easy to get on nice and tight by hand. That's the only presta I'll use. I only wish they came in other colors. I like the red, but I'll be building up my new 38's all black and I'd like to get them in black, but oh well. Red will have to do.


Color doesn't matter once the bike is covered in dirt, mud, and sweat.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

^The WTBs are available in black and two lengths. I've used both and definitely prefer the WTB to AmClassic.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Shredman69 said:


> I love the AC's too, the big o-ring seals perfectly and the curved spacer on the top fits the rim profile and the nut is easy to get on nice and tight by hand. That's the only presta I'll use. I only wish they came in other colors. I like the red, but I'll be building up my new 38's all black and I'd like to get them in black, but oh well. Red will have to do.


Colors galore! TruckerCo High Performance Buy Brake pads Tire sealant


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Thanks bro, those look sweet. But I'm kinda partial to the AC's. I like the design of the O-ring on the bottom and the curved spacer on top.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

bad andy said:


> Colors galore! TruckerCo High Performance Buy Brake pads Tire sealant





Shredman69 said:


> Thanks bro, those look sweet. But I'm kinda partial to the AC's. I like the design of the I-ring on the bottom and the curved spacer on top.


Agreed, that's a quality link. But I'm with ya, I like the flared ends a lot, makes it impossible to overtighten the valve and collar.

@bad andy - have you used those trucker valves on MTB? How do they hold up?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Hey folks -

OK, so now I truly do have a serious issue. I got both my tires mounted, Stan's thrown in, beads set, and inflated. Now to throw on my XX1 cassette. Wellllllll........I don't think this is right what LB put on my hub. The hub clearly says "For SRAM 11S", but the notch spacing isn't correct. Either that, or my XX1 cassette isn't correct (which doesn't seem to be the case, because all pics I can find online show the cassette has even spacing throughout the ring). The hub appears to have even spacing for like 90%, but then there's this one space where the notch is wider than all the rest. Can anyone just see from these pics which is wrong here: the hub driver or the cassette?


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

This is REALLY interesting, because if you look at the zoomed picture from both these links (Novatec XD Freehub Body for SRAM XX1 and X01) (3.30 XX1 XD Freehub 135/12mm) it shows the same notching if you buy the Novatec XD driver by itself.

What am I missing here? Are the notches and slots of the cassette not supposed to fit into the hub body perfectly? I'm worried to crank/torque down the cassette not having all these notches/slots line up perfectly....


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> This is REALLY interesting, because if you look at the zoomed picture from both these links (Novatec XD Freehub Body for SRAM XX1 and X01) (3.30 XX1 XD Freehub 135/12mm) it shows the same notching if you buy the Novatec XD driver by itself.
> 
> What am I missing here? Are the notches and slots of the cassette not supposed to fit into the hub body perfectly? I'm worried to crank/torque down the cassette not having all these notches/slots line up perfectly....


Did u get the cassette to go on at all? If it goes on a little, try to tighten it. If it goes on easy when u tighten it, u should be good to go. But if it feels like it is binding or not going on easy when u tighten it, then I'd stop.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Shredman69 said:


> Did u get the cassette to go on at all? If it goes on a little, try to tighten it. If it goes on easy when u tighten it, u should be good to go. But if it feels like it is binding or not going on easy when u tighten it, then I'd stop.


Well yeah, I can get the cassette on and start to thread it, but that's kind of irrelevant if the splines and notches of the cassette and hub don't line up but are supposed to.

I'm not understanding the point of the splines and notches if they're not actually supposed to line up with each other....


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Don't worry about it. The extra gap caused by the narrower spline on the driver will be on the side that does not receive any pedaling torque. The cassette does not touch on any of the backsides of the splines when you apply the power.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

TigWorld said:


> Don't worry about it. The extra gap caused by the narrower spline on the driver will be on the side that does not receive any pedaling torque. The cassette does not touch on any of the backsides of the splines when you apply the power.


I'm still confused. Are the splines and ridges of the cassette and hub supposed to line up likea puzzle, like Shimano's do?


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Your cassette does not appear to be "keyed" so it won't matter. The shimano freehub's are keyed so that the cassette can only be put on in one way so the shift ramps of the loose cogs will align properly. The SRAM 11 spd stuff is all one piece so this is not an issue.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

chrisingrassia said:


> I'm still confused. Are the splines and ridges of the cassette and hub supposed to line up likea puzzle, like Shimano's do?


My hope XD driver has the same notches as yours. Put it on and tighten it up. It's all good man.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

chrisingrassia said:


> Agreed, that's a quality link. But I'm with ya, I like the flared ends a lot, makes it impossible to overtighten the valve and collar.
> 
> @bad andy - have you used those trucker valves on MTB? How do they hold up?


Oh you can over-tighten the AmClassic valves. I broke two. They snapped along the threads, I think from over-tightening. I was putting a pump on both times it happened but I think the aluminum was stressed or cracked from tightening the nut too much.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

chrisingrassia said:


> Hey folks -
> 
> OK, so now I truly do have a serious issue. I got both my tires mounted, Stan's thrown in, beads set, and inflated. Now to throw on my XX1 cassette. Wellllllll........I don't think this is right what LB put on my hub. The hub clearly says "For SRAM 11S", but the notch spacing isn't correct. Either that, or my XX1 cassette isn't correct (which doesn't seem to be the case, because all pics I can find online show the cassette has even spacing throughout the ring). The hub appears to have even spacing for like 90%, but then there's this one space where the notch is wider than all the rest. Can anyone just see from these pics which is wrong here: the hub driver or the cassette?
> 
> ...


See how the ridge is narrower right next to where the slot is wider? That should make it so there is no real difference and the cassette should press o to the splines fine. There will be a slight gap there but it's not on the pressure side so no worries. Why Novatec put that wider gap/narrower spline I have no idea.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

So after a rough and fun fall ride under the rain today, I cracked my rear rim (33mm undrilled clincher rim) while riding home on the concrete border of the bike path and there was a 1' gap due to road work and my rear wheel hit the corner pretty hard (my rear shock was also overly stiff due to a leaking negative air chamber). It cracked only on the left side, didn't pinched the tube (yay) and about 1/2" along a 20° angle, maybe 1mm edge along the crack. I was able to make it home without problem and the wheel seems fine to keep riding, but I'll check it properly later on.

Good news, I have a new hookless 33mm rim laying around from a warranty replacement (the rim plug failed on that same rim and I got LB to send me a new rim for it for $40 shipping), so I'll finally get to play around with hookless technology ! The damaged rim is most likely to be repaired and gonna keep it as a spare. I've been wondering what the heck I was gonna do with that spare hookless rim haha


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## Tantrum (Dec 24, 2003)

*33mm wide 26er, hookless, UD matte and 32H, with Yeti Turquoise decal*

I received my rims after 16 days and had them built by a local builder with a good reputation. However, he gave me the stink eye about the poor quality of the rims, especially around the ERD measurement. I had them built with black Hope Pro2 EVO hubs, black DT spokes and silver nipples, and Hope floating rotors.

I had LB do the LB decal in Yeti turquoise and gave them the RBM code from the Yeti forum. As you can see, the rims are more green and the frame is more blue. Oh well, once the dust gets on the rims it won't matter. I used the 25 mm wide Gorilla tape, Stans sealant, and 44mm Stans road valves. My Schwalbe Nobby Nic 2.3 UST tires mounted up with no problems. I was expecting to wrestle with them after reading some posts. I was really surprised at how beefy the tires look on the wider rim. I am a bit concerned about tire rub on the rear triangle but we'll see.

I had problems with the spacing of the front hub. The XTR brake caliper won't center on the rotor and rubs on the inner pad. For some reason, the Hope hub and rotor are not the same width as the old XTR wheelset. I ultimately put some Shimano 6 bolt spacers between the rotor and the hub. After that, the rivets (I don't know what else to call them) on the Hope floating disc rubbed on the XTR post mount. I filed it down a bit and ultimately got it to work.

I spent most of Sunday farting around with the brakes so no real ride report as of yet. The wheel builder did say he wants me to check in with him often so he can see how the wheelset is holding up.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Stink eye, eh?! But he wants you to report back.......thinkin maybe he should get a set!


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

That yeti looks sick!


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## Tantrum (Dec 24, 2003)

Stink eye may be a bit too strong but he was dubious about the quality and long-term durability. As noted in this thread, for $170 each I like this rim over the $1k Enve no doubt.


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

Tantrum said:


> Stink eye maybe a bit too strong but he was dubious about the quality and long-term durability. As noted in this thread, for $170 each I like this rim over the $1k Enve no doubt.


My LBS did the same to me when I brought mine in to build. Jerk offs. All they cared about was "what brand are these".... pretentious douche bags. I've never been back since. There will ALWAYS be a subset of consumers that, at their core, overpaying for a brand name is the only way you'll get a quality product. Those wheels look badass,


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Plus a friend of a friend has blown up 3 enve rims. I was dubious as well from the start but they have proven themselves to me as an excellent choice. Fact is everything seems to be going carbon and prices will continue to be blown out of proportion until the market fully embraces the technology. I met a guy who just bought carbon rotors for his & his sons downhill bikes - FOR @ $600 !!!! EACH SET!!


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

chrisingrassia said:


> My LBS did the same to me when I brought mine in to build. Jerk offs. All they cared about was "what brand are these".... pretentious douche bags. I've never been back since.


There are to many LBS's that feel they are entitled to your money. Those are the shops I will never support


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

You say he specifically mentioned the ERD. Did he say it was inconsistent? Did it not match the stated ERD? I've had no problem with spoke length using the stated ERD and DT spoke calculator.


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## Tantrum (Dec 24, 2003)

Lelandjt said:


> You say he specifically mentioned the ERD. Did he say it was inconsistent? Did it not match the stated ERD? I've had no problem with spoke length using the stated ERD and DT spoke calculator.


Yes, inconsistent ERD. He said the spoke tension was not consistent for the spokes of the same length.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

Tantrum said:


> Yes, inconsistent ERD. He said the spoke tension was not consistent for the spokes of the same length.


No such problem with mine.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Me neither. He's prob just trying to find something to gripe about. Sounds like he's reaching.


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## 702Biff (Dec 10, 2012)

I will say however.......

I was having a hell of a time getting tires on mine, and that is putting it VERY MILDLY )broke several tire levers). So I put tubeless tape on (running tubes) for their thin nature. And while looking at the rim standing on edge I noticed it seemed taller on one side than the other. Putting a level on it verified my observation. Measuring one side against the other backed it up. One side of my rim has a smaller diameter than the other. So installing the tire from the "short" side was MUCH easier. In fact I got it on without the use of a tire lever. I DID use a couple of other strategies not previously used as well.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

hi guys

I'm using LB carbon rims for 2 years now
on my DH and on my AM bikes.
broke 4 rims already (always the rear rims).
LB are great and sent me warranty rims (only paid for shipment )
I see that now they have the wider hook-less rims.
are they any stronger?
do you have any ride time with them?
do you race? ride fast enough to check if they are really stronger?
I race. and brook the rims when using 35 PSI.... so its not a problem of low air pressure.

thanks


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

chrisingrassia said:


> My LBS did the same to me when I brought mine in to build. Jerk offs. All they cared about was "what brand are these".... pretentious douche bags. I've never been back since. There will ALWAYS be a subset of consumers that, at their core, overpaying for a brand name is the only way you'll get a quality product. Those wheels look badass,


Takes a lot of nerve for someone paying half price to get on a high horse when you try to save some dough.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

saruti said:


> hi guys
> 
> I'm using LB carbon rims for 2 years now
> on my DH and on my AM bikes.
> ...


How much do you weigh? That's crazy, 4 wheels. I should learn to build wheels


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

I weight 70kg
I build my wheels. (and my friends wheels  )


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## omoore61 (Jul 16, 2010)

Just an update on my wheels, 33mm AM hookless. I'd guess they have at least 1500 miles on them this year. Not a single issue, although i am sure to keep the rear near 30psi(front 28ish) as i ride pretty fast through rocky terrain. This is probably a good policy in my experience and not unique to carbon wheels.

The wheels have been on all of the double diamonds at keystone bike park (3 days), trestle bike park(3 days), kokomo pass downhill, starvation and greens creek off of monarch, white ranch on a regular basis and Apex 3-4 times a week. Those of you on the front range in CO will probably know these trails but for those who dont, they are generally pretty chunky and fast trails. These wheels are not babied, i charge rock gardens without reservation. 

The wheels have exceeded my expectations and I will buy another set without hesitation whenever I need another set of rims built up.


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## mahrous (Dec 6, 2011)

I built both of my wheels back in May of this year. AM 33mm hook-less
I unfortunately cracked the sidewall of my front wheel during a relatively innocent rub with a rock. The rear on the other hand has held up quite nicely riding through rocky terrain and in Finale Ligure earlier this month. Rode the EWS trails and freeride/DH and the wheel works as good as ever (needs some slight truing though).

I contacted LB concerning my front wheel and they were adamant not to warranty it or consider a crash replacement. I was pretty disappointed because it was really not a big hit whatsoever. I replaced it with a Syntace 40mm wheel and it served me super well in Finale and till now (less than a month old)
Unless my rear wheel survives at least 2 years, I will not be buying LB/Carbon rims again. I weigh 75kg and not really fast


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## blcman (Feb 1, 2007)

mahrous said:


> I built both of my wheels back in May of this year. AM 33mm hook-less
> I unfortunately cracked the sidewall of my front wheel during a relatively innocent rub with a rock. The rear on the other hand has held up quite nicely riding through rocky terrain and in Finale Ligure earlier this month. Rode the EWS trails and freeride/DH and the wheel works as good as ever (needs some slight truing though).
> 
> I contacted LB concerning my front wheel and they were adamant not to warranty it or consider a crash replacement. I was pretty disappointed because it was really not a big hit whatsoever. I replaced it with a Syntace 40mm wheel and it served me super well in Finale and till now (less than a month old)
> Unless my rear wheel survives at least 2 years, I will not be buying LB/Carbon rims again. I weigh 75kg and not really fast


I had my rear 33mm hookless DH rim crack on a minor impact. I could see the rim cracking in the impact area, but to split on both sides. Needs more bonding agent IMHO.
I think I finally am getting LB to warranty it after numerous emails and rants.
It was on a DH bike running around 32 psi range.


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

well... it looks like you need more luck then strength with this rims....


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

What worries me is I weigh 230 lbs.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

blcman said:


> I had my rear 33mm hookless DH rim crack on a minor impact. I could see the rim cracking in the impact area, but to split on both sides. Needs more bonding agent IMHO.
> I think I finally am getting LB to warranty it after numerous emails and rants.
> It was on a DH bike running around 32 psi range.


Yep, that's what mine looks like. However, truth be told i can take a lot of the blame. Low pressure, square edged hit. That said, if it was an AL rim I'd have dented it so I'm not necessarily saying carbon is worse.

Ultimately it comes to this...generally speaking, the same event will cause carbon to crack or AL to dent. We each need to decide for ourselves if the benefits of a lighter, stiffer carbon rim outweigh the extra expense of replacing it.


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## akrull (Oct 21, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> They told me 515 also. My LBS will confirm it before they build them. I'll let u know when I find out.


Still eagerly awaiting confirmation of ERD on these 38mm rims. Is it truly 510mm?

Thanks for your time!

Andy


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

akrull said:


> Still eagerly awaiting confirmation of ERD on these 38mm rims. Is it truly 510mm?
> 
> Thanks for your time!
> 
> Andy


My 38's are laced up already. I didn't ask my builder what the ERD was, but they used 248mm spokes. That's DT Supercomps laced to alloy nips and Hope's. I'm just waiting for my AC valve stems now. The wheel set came out to 1630g for the pair.


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## akrull (Oct 21, 2011)

Shredman69 said:


> My 38's are laced up already. I didn't ask my builder what the ERD was, but they used 248mm spokes. That's DT Supercomps laced to alloy nips and Hope's. I'm just waiting for my AC valve stems now. The wheel set came out to 1630g for the pair.


Perfect info. Thanks. That matches 510mm ERD.

Cheers,

AK


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

akrull said:


> Perfect info. Thanks. That matches 510mm ERD.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> AK


NP, glad to help.:thumbsup:


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## Cooltralantra (Jan 19, 2008)

*Ibis Mojo with LB wheels*

I've had my new LB wheels on the bike for several weeks now, but the evaluation has been interrupted by my 3 week cycling trip in Northern Vietnam.

The need for wider wheels on the Ibis Mojo Lefty was sparked by my experience with my new Lynskey Pro650 Ti hardtail which I built up with American Classic Wide Lightning 32mm wide wheels. Combined with Maxxis Ikon 2.3 tyres with huge volume, these wheels were a revelation in plush precision, while running only 18/20psi for my 80kg weight. I just had to get wide rims on the Mojo and as AM don't make 26inch Wide Lightnings I went to LB.

The LB experience was very good, with Carolin replying promptly and patiently to my ever-changing requests over nearly 4 months of emails. Eventually I decided on 33mm wide tubeless (ie no spoke holes internally), hookless rims, glossy 3K finish, Circus Monkey Lefty front hub, Novatech D712 rear hub, 32 holes with Pillar Aero spokes, red alloy nipples. The wheels were built and dispatched in the time anticipated. Cost was $771 including freight and the Paypal 3.5% which LB charges back, $683 for the wheels alone.

The wheels were well packed and I was impressed by their lightness and their burly appearance. The weave is beautifully applied with a nearly invisible seam. Weight is 1470g, a reduction of 324g less than the Mavic X819/ Sun Ringle /Cannondale Omega wheels they are replacing.

I initially fitted them with used WTB Weirwolf 2.3 tyres and had trouble getting the beads to go over the rim in spite of plenty of soap and effort. I eventually resorted to a Michelin plastic lever which worked fine and did not leave any marks. The rim edges are quite thick and very strong. Must remember to take a lever on rides, because inserting a tube after a puncture will be impossible otherwise.

The beads snapped in with loud bangs once the compressor cut in. The rims held pressure with no latex for a couple of days while I sourced 44mm long Stans tubeless valves (the normal valves I had are too short for the depth of the rims). Tyre width increased by only a couple of mm but once finished and fitted to the bike the wheels looked huge, very black and very shiny. Impressive to say the least. Noise from the Novatech hub is refreshingly minimal compared with the loud buzz produced by the Sun Ringle.

I had been riding the old wheels on local singletrack to imprint the feel so that I could make an accurate comparison with the new wheels. However Nature had different ideas and a period of heavy rain then completely altered the track characteristics.

Using initial pressures of 22/24, the different feel of the bike still shone through, the front being much more solid and easier to lean on in the corners without washing out and running wide. The bike turns better and accelerates faster. The Ibis Mojo is already a very plush bike, but the greater air volume and the more supportive sidewalls gave an additional softness which was very evident. Softer and yet more solid: can this be possible? Grip seems infinite, much better whether clawing up rock steps or heading down over loose rocky track.

I noticed that the 2.3 Ikon measures nearly 15mm more than the 2.35 Weirwolf across the tread, bead to bead. This translates into even more volume so I fitted fatty Ikons . This has improved handling again, with lowered pressures and more steering accuracy.

I am convinced that wide rims, especially on a 27.5 wheel, will be the future standard and will negate the need for 29ers altogether except for XC racing. Who know what the eventual ideal width will be? Bill Shook of AM says no greater than 32mm but Ibis and Derby have gone with 40mm wide.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

My new 38's:cornut: 1630g for the pair, (without tires of course). Nice and wide, looks like MX tires on them.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

My order for NEXTIE bike 26in and 29in 35mm wide hookless rims came in yesterday (for a friend and myself). Quality looks amazing.

I went ahead and made ERD measurements on both versions, and the website listed ERD was 100% accurate (my ERD measuring setup only uses 12mm nipples, so the ERD listed on the website already has accurate measurements for 14mm nipples).

Sorry for the potato pic (and the angle looks funny, I promise the measurements are from opposing spoke holes....looks shifted here).


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## Tantrum (Dec 24, 2003)

Hi again, I now have 10 rides on these rims and could not be happier. They feel really fast compared to my old XTR wheels. Now that they are dusty, the slight color variation from the frame to the rims is not noticeable. Flex is still an issue with the rear end but I hope to solve that with DT Swiss RWS Thru-Bolt Skewers front and rear. I started with a PSI of 27 as that is what I used on the XTRs and never had a problem with denting the scandium rims. I'm now down to 23 and will probably experiment lower as I have had no harsh hits. I've ridden some pretty rocky sections of track with square edged rocks and not had any problems. I've had quite a few rocks kick up and hit the rear rim with some minor cosmetic chipping. Now that I know the Nobby Nics mount so easily, I'll probably be more diligent in checking the rims for cracks and delamination.


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

I should be ordering a set of the nextie 40s the first week of December. I'm going to get the dh version as I'm about 6'3 & 245. I got my hubs this week. I'm using a dt swiss 350 rear and a spank 20mm front. I would really like to pre-order the spokes so I can lace them up as soon as I get back in town. Of the guys who have bought these rims how accurate is the erd


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

tim300wsm said:


> I should be ordering a set of the nextie 40s the first week of December. I'm going to get the dh version as I'm about 6'3 & 245. I got my hubs this week. I'm using a dt swiss 350 rear and a spank 20mm front. I would really like to pre-order the spokes so I can lace them up as soon as I get back in town. Of the guys who have bought these rims how accurate is the erd


I haven't used the 40s specifically, but both the 29in and 26in wheels I have ordered from Nextie Bike have had 100% accurate ERD measurements (the 35mm wide rims hookless rims). So just plug em in and order spokes.


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## raschaa (Mar 18, 2007)

maybe I missed something along the way but can anybody comment on light-bicycles vs. nextie?


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

raschaa said:


> maybe I missed something along the way but can anybody comment on light-bicycles vs. nextie?


I haven't used LB personally, but after reading this whole thread, and other threads, I have heard a lot less about failures with regards to Nextie rims. That plus their website being nicer, and their response time to emails being much faster...I went with Nextie.

Do not regret it so far. Only have about 50 miles on my rims however.


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## tim300wsm (May 14, 2011)

Nextie has a better warranty as well


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

I need to get my hands on some 40 mm but its more cost effective for me to have them build the rim. . so far only lb ships them out built.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

4th ride on my Nextie 35mm hookless carbon wheelset I built up. I9 rear hub, BHS front hub. Sapim Race spokes, brass nipples. Burly yet light.

So far my first build is still 100% true and the wheelset is amazing. These pig heavy tires don't help, but once I wear through em I will grab some 2015 Nobby Nic's and lose another pound of rotational weight. But it is winter now and I need some traction in the sludge.


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## Tonggi (May 4, 2013)

Received an email from light bicycle. They are having a sale on wheels if u buy in #s. The more the better discount. $10 off 2-4 per wheel. $20 off. Etc up to $40 off per wheel. Great to do a group buy on a large order of local guys. Split shipping. It'll be even cheaper!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

y0bailey said:


> 4th ride on my Nextie 35mm hookless carbon wheelset I built up. I9 rear hub, BHS front hub. Sapim Race spokes, brass nipples. Burly yet light. So far my first build is still 100% true and the wheelset is amazing. These pig heavy tires don't help, but once I wear through em I will grab some 2015 Nobby Nic's and lose another pound of rotational weight. But it is winter now and I need some traction in the sludge.
> 
> What was your wheel weight without tires?


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Shredman69 said:


> y0bailey said:
> 
> 
> > 4th ride on my Nextie 35mm hookless carbon wheelset I built up. I9 rear hub, BHS front hub. Sapim Race spokes, brass nipples. Burly yet light.
> ...


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

y0bailey said:


> Shredman69 said:
> 
> 
> > Right around 1600 grams. I used the XC/AM rim for the front, and the AM rim for the back.
> ...


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Has anyone successfully repaired or "patched" a carbon forger rim sidewall crack due to a hit on a rock (or concrete square angle sidewall for my matter) ? I'll have to relace a new rim, since I wanna run tubeless, but I'd like to keep the old rim and built it into a commuting wheel or something like that, since it's obviously not about to fail and only needs a "carbon band-aid"


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## MinNZ (Mar 21, 2013)

Help! I've just got my LB 38's (32mm inner, 32mm depth) enduro downhill mtb 26er carbon rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle
and can't find any tubeless valves long enough!
I found some tubes with 48mm valves to get me riding, but desperately want to go tubeless!
I have the longest 40-something valves from CRC but they both came in too short.

Anyone solved this problem before?
As a last resort I can cannibalise some tubes for the valves but they don't have removal valves.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Get some valve extensions. Most are smooth outers but there are some which are threaded so you can tighten it down against the rim outside. Can't remember who make them but I know Hargrove cycles sell them.


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## ruscle (Jun 19, 2011)

Follow link:

Effetto Mariposa Valve Extension 45mm 2pc


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

ruscle said:


> Follow link:
> 
> Effetto Mariposa Valve Extension 45mm 2pc


1pr Black 48mm Speed Evolution Alloy Tubeless Valve Stem Presta Removable Core | eBay

I have those and they work amazingly well.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

MinNZ said:


> Help! I've just got my LB 38's (32mm inner, 32mm depth) enduro downhill mtb 26er carbon rims 38mm wide hookless tubeless compatible strongest Light-Bicycle
> and can't find any tubeless valves long enough!
> I found some tubes with 48mm valves to get me riding, but desperately want to go tubeless!
> I have the longest 40-something valves from CRC but they both came in too short.
> ...


American Classic or WTB both make 48mm long tubeless valve stems. Just go on eBay and search it.:thumbsup: I run the American Classics.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

David C said:


> Has anyone successfully repaired or "patched" a carbon forger rim sidewall crack due to a hit on a rock (or concrete square angle sidewall for my matter) ? I'll have to relace a new rim, since I wanna run tubeless, but I'd like to keep the old rim and built it into a commuting wheel or something like that, since it's obviously not about to fail and only needs a "carbon band-aid"


I cracked a sidewall kinda bad but not too bad. I dripped a lot of superglue in it and put a c-clamp on overnight. I then finished the enduro on it but replaced it when I got home. It's now a spare that will be used if I destroy a rim and am waiting for a replacement. Obviously every instance is different so use your judgement but in general epoxy or glue of some kind and squeezing delaminated layer together is the fix. I've never seen a rim professionally repaired like carbon frames are.

P.S. This was on a hookless rim so the c-clamp was just pushing 2 flat surfaces together. It's gonna be a lot trickier with the thinner and weirder shaped hooked sidewall.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks, that's in the ballpark of what I thought trying to fix the rim. I think I would use a strap and ratchet clamping instead of the c-clamp with a stiff support to even the rim wall pressure. I'll check the superglue/epoxy stuff I have. I also have fiberglass resin, maybe I could stick a patch of fiberglass and resin over the fix afterward ?


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## saruti (Aug 9, 2008)

after fixing a carbon rim, when you inflate the tire, it can make the rim un even.
so do all the truing after you inflate it.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

Thanks for the head-up.


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## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

David C said:


> Has anyone successfully repaired or "patched" a carbon forger rim sidewall crack due to a hit on a rock (or concrete square angle sidewall for my matter) ? I'll have to relace a new rim, since I wanna run tubeless, but I'd like to keep the old rim and built it into a commuting wheel or something like that, since it's obviously not about to fail and only needs a "carbon band-aid"


I need to do this as well. I was going to use JB Weld, clamp what I could and then sand it down until it matches the intact sections. I really like JB Weld.


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Hi Shredman, I have a doubt that you can resolve I think: 

I want to purchase for a LB wheelset to mount on my Ibis mojo 160 26". What kind of width rim do you recomend me? 

38mm - 31.6mm inner ?
33mm - 27 mm inner ?

Now I saw that Ibis Wheels are made with 41mm - 35mm inner , and they put a smaller tyre, because the wide rim gives more volume to the wheel. They say this is a setup for AM/Enduro riding... But I don't know.

For riding AM/Enduro and a couple times in Bikepark on summer, what type of wheel do you think is the best choice for me? I am 70kg weight.

(Sorry for my english, I am improving...)

Many thanks!

jmz


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi Shredman, I have a doubt that you can resolve I think:
> 
> I want to purchase for a LB wheelset to mount on my Ibis mojo 160 26". What kind of width rim do you recomend me?
> 
> ...


I'm running 33mm LB wheels on my HDR














Your tire/wheel clearance on the Mojo with a 41mm size is going to push it. It's a tight fit on mine with 2.4's in that rear triangle


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

oww this mojo is amazing!

Which tyres are you setting up?

It's correct to think this? :

Wider rim (31.6mm inner) = more tyre volume = Can put 2.3" tyre and will be like 2,5" with less weight, so you can climb as fine as 27mm wide rim, with much grip on descending. 

So, 31.6mm is better than 27mm in all aspects?

Thanks!


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## chrisingrassia (Aug 13, 2012)

jmzstyle said:


> oww this mojo is amazing!
> 
> Which tyres are you setting up?
> 
> ...


2.4 Conti trail kings on 33mm LB rims. I'll let someone else chime in on all your calculations, too much math for me to be honest. For AM/Enduro riding though, I wouldn't go with less than the 33mm wide rims.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi Shredman, I have a doubt that you can resolve I think:
> 
> I want to purchase for a LB wheelset to mount on my Ibis mojo 160 26". What kind of width rim do you recomend me?
> 
> ...


I have both and really love both. As long as you have clearance you can run either. I use my 33's for AM and I use my 38's for parks or knarley DH. The 33's are about 50g per rim lighter than the 38's so 100 lighter for the set. You can use either one and you can't go wrong with either one. :thumbsup:


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## MTB Dad (Sep 22, 2012)

Question to those that might know? Looking at buying a front and building it up for mainly XC and trail riding on my 29 HT. I'm a big guy (220lbs) but not into big air, maybe occasional 1-2 ft drops but even those are usually cause I wasn't paying attention. I want better traction on the downhill and was thinking the wider rim might be the answer.
Currently run Stan's Arch and tried a larger Continental up front and loved the grip but not the weight. 
So question is will these work for me? Any comments or suggestions? I'm looking at the the AM rims for a bit more strength.


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## macming (Oct 31, 2004)

MTB Dad said:


> Question to those that might know? Looking at buying a front and building it up for mainly XC and trail riding on my 29 HT. I'm a big guy (220lbs) but not into big air, maybe occasional 1-2 ft drops but even those are usually cause I wasn't paying attention. I want better traction on the downhill and was thinking the wider rim might be the answer.
> Currently run Stan's Arch and tried a larger Continental up front and loved the grip but not the weight.
> So question is will these work for me? Any comments or suggestions? I'm looking at the the AM rims for a bit more strength.


38mm is pretty big. I have 33mms and they are plenty wide

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Has somebody mounted 2.3 tyres like maxxis minion on a 38mm (31.6 inner) bike?

How does it feel? Can climb and roll fast on ascends?

I think 2.5 tyre on 38mm rim will push up my rear triangle


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

jmzstyle said:


> Has somebody mounted 2.3 tyres like maxxis minion on a 38mm (31.6 inner) bike?
> 
> How does it feel? Can climb and roll fast on ascends?
> 
> I think 2.5 tyre on 38mm rim will push up my rear triangle


Yes. The 2.3 minion on a 38mm is a great combo. The minion super tacky is my all time favorite tire, However, beware the single ply. I had a few punctures last year that cost me an entire race weekend. If the carcass was a little thicker it would be the only tire I ever bought. The rounded profile is perfect for the new, wide rim movement.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> Has somebody mounted 2.3 tyres like maxxis minion on a 38mm (31.6 inner) bike?
> 
> How does it feel? Can climb and roll fast on ascends?
> 
> I think 2.5 tyre on 38mm rim will push up my rear triangle


What r u using it for? Unless your using it for XC, I wouldn't run the 2.35's. The minions run a little small and on the 38 tend to flatten the profile. If u want to run minion's, I would go with a DHF 2.5 front and rear. More traction, more cush better handling.


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## David C (May 25, 2011)

I finally had my hookless 33mm rim laced to replace the first gen 33mm rear rim that cracked last summer. The rim has a slightly better finishing than the clincher one, I would guess the solid rim beads are easier to manufacture and cleaner to do too. However, the hookless rim has a bigger ERTO than the ones I had, because the same tire fits very tightly, to the point where I can't even rotate the tire on the rim, even when it's in the middle channel. The tire did air up very nicely (using mold latex and homebrew sealant) and seated right away. I have an amateur snow race on sunday where I'll try it out, should be fun !


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Shredman69 said:


> What r u using it for? Unless your using it for XC, I wouldn't run the 2.35's. The minions run a little small and on the 38 tend to flatten the profile. If u want to run minion's, I would go with a DHF 2.5 front and rear. More traction, more cush better handling.


Hi guys! I already have my LB 38mm 26". I only ride it once time on mud conditions but I feel the front wheel is too weight, but it is lighter than my old front wheel.. Is this for the flatten profile? I ride with minions 2.3 . 
Is there another tyre with more rounded profile and same weight?

thanks!


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

some photos


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi guys! I already have my LB 38mm 26". I only ride it once time on mud conditions but I feel the front wheel is too weight, but it is lighter than my old front wheel.. Is this for the flatten profile? I ride with minions 2.3 .
> Is there another tyre with more rounded profile and same weight?
> 
> thanks!


Lol, your joking right? It's heavy from the mud!


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Shredman69 said:


> Lol, your joking right? It's heavy from the mud!


 haha noo I felt this before riding into the mud ,

I will try another time this weekend. I think I'll need some rides to get used with this wheels, never used tubeless and low presures before


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> haha noo I felt this before riding into the mud ,
> 
> I will try another time this weekend. I think I'll need some rides to get used with this wheels, never used tubeless and low presures before


What pressure are u running? I weigh about 175-180 geared up and I run 20-22 up front and 26-28 in the back.


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## MinNZ (Mar 21, 2013)

Shredman69 said:


> What r u using it for? Unless your using it for XC, I wouldn't run the 2.35's. The minions run a little small and on the 38 tend to flatten the profile. If u want to run minion's, I would go with a DHF 2.5 front and rear. More traction, more cush better handling.


+1
Most 2.4's / 2.5's tyres are designed for narrower rims so designs with a rounded crown work better.
I am running 38's with Minion 2.5 DHF and it's perfect match.
I am now also running 2.35 Hans Dampf (ironically a bit wider than the Minion) on the rear and also very happy with it, blew on easy with a hand pump.

Note to those questioning 33 or 38, and whether 38's would fit: some of my tyres have actually measured narrower on the wide rims, depending on the 'edge knob' shape and location on the tyre carcass.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

*Maxxis Minion 2.5 problem fitting light bicycle carbon rim*

Has anyone used Maxxis Minion DHF Supertacky UST 2.5 on 26" Light Bicycle carbon rims? I had to fight to get it on the rim and using clamps was the only way to squeeze it on. Then I used up to 100psi initial pressure to try to get it to pop up from the rim inner channel onto the bead channels but the diameter of the tire just seems a little too small and I couldn't get it to seat in the bead channels all the way around. I easily mounted a Maxxis Ardent 2.4, Specialized Butcher SX 2.3, and Specialized Purgatory 2.2 tires on the same rim. The rim I have is their "all mountain" (33mm outer 27mm inner). The Minion was not a new tire as I've had it mounted on Roval Traverse (aluminum) and Roval Traverse SL (carbon) rims in the past and it's been used for about 15 to 20 days at the downhill park so I would think it would be stretched a little. Has anyone else had similar problems?


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

pb123hou said:


> Has anyone used Maxxis Minion DHF Supertacky UST 2.5 on 26" Light Bicycle carbon rims? I had to fight to get it on the rim and using clamps was the only way to squeeze it on. Then I used up to 100psi initial pressure to try to get it to pop up from the rim inner channel onto the bead channels but the diameter of the tire just seems a little too small and I couldn't get it to seat in the bead channels all the way around. I easily mounted a Maxxis Ardent 2.4, Specialized Butcher SX 2.3, and Specialized Purgatory 2.2 tires on the same rim. The rim I have is their "all mountain" (33mm outer 27mm inner). The Minion was not a new tire as I've had it mounted on Roval Traverse (aluminum) and Roval Traverse SL (carbon) rims in the past and it's been used for about 15 to 20 days at the downhill park so I would think it would be stretched a little. Has anyone else had similar problems?


I have the 33's and 38's and I've had 2.5 Minnion DHF EXO's, (not the UST) on both rims with no problems. Are they steel bead or folding? Maybe the UST's are tighter since they use more rubber on the casing. Did u try some soap and water on the beads during mounting? Before I mount the tires, I let them, (the tires, not the rims) heat up in the sun so the rubber expands and becomes more plyable. Just curious, why UST? They're heavier than the tubeless ready EXO ones. Be careful with the rims and that much pressure too. They have a 80 PSI max rating.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

pb123hou said:


> Has anyone used Maxxis Minion DHF Supertacky UST 2.5 on 26" Light Bicycle carbon rims? I had to fight to get it on the rim and using clamps was the only way to squeeze it on. Then I used up to 100psi initial pressure to try to get it to pop up from the rim inner channel onto the bead channels but the diameter of the tire just seems a little too small and I couldn't get it to seat in the bead channels all the way around. I easily mounted a Maxxis Ardent 2.4, Specialized Butcher SX 2.3, and Specialized Purgatory 2.2 tires on the same rim. The rim I have is their "all mountain" (33mm outer 27mm inner). The Minion was not a new tire as I've had it mounted on Roval Traverse (aluminum) and Roval Traverse SL (carbon) rims in the past and it's been used for about 15 to 20 days at the downhill park so I would think it would be stretched a little. Has anyone else had similar problems?
> 
> 
> Shredman69 said:
> ...


I believe mine are the steal bead. I ordered it from Amazon a while back and it came in a box big enough for the whole tire to fit in - so it was not folded in any way. I've had this tire on 2 different Roval Traverse rims with 22mm internal (clincher), and it worked great. Maybe the rim bed diameter on this LB rim is slightly more. I did try soap and water. I don't see tubeless ready or EXO listed under the 'Tech' column on the Maxxis website for Minion DHF's. It also shows all wire except for one foldable under the 'Bead' column. The only tubeless ready (TR) shown under the 'Tech' column are 29er tires. Both 27.5 options show Wire only in the 'Bead' column. Maybe I will try to find the one with the Foldable 'Bead' option, but that also shows UST. I think just having the Wire bead is the problem because it's unable to stretch but not sure. I was only using 100 psi setting on my compressor just to try to get the started.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

pb123hou said:


> I believe mine are the steal bead. I ordered it from Amazon a while back and it came in a box big enough for the whole tire to fit in - so it was not folded in any way. I've had this tire on 2 different Roval Traverse rims with 22mm internal (clincher), and it worked great. Maybe the rim bed diameter on this LB rim is slightly more. I did try soap and water. I don't see tubeless ready or EXO listed under the 'Tech' column on the Maxxis website for Minion DHF's. It also shows all wire except for one foldable under the 'Bead' column. The only tubeless ready (TR) shown under the 'Tech' column are 29er tires. Both 27.5 options show Wire only in the 'Bead' column. Maybe I will try to find the one with the Foldable 'Bead' option, but that also shows UST. I think just having the Wire bead is the problem because it's unable to stretch but not sure. I was only using 100 psi setting on my compressor just to try to get the started.


Yea, that steel isn't going to stretch. Here is a link for the Folding DHF EXO. These will be way lighter and easier to mount. They also have 2 ply folding on the same site if u want something heavier.:thumbsup:

Maxxis Minion DHF Exo 26x2.5 Tire | 60a | 3C | single ply


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Shredman69 said:


> Yea, that steel isn't going to stretch. Here is a link for the Folding DHF EXO. These will be way lighter and easier to mount. They also have 2 ply folding on the same site if u want something heavier.:thumbsup:
> 
> Maxxis Minion DHF Exo 26x2.5 Tire | 60a | 3C | single ply


Thanks for the link, but I was looking for the Minion with the downhill casings and supertacky. I love the tire I have 2.5, DH cas., Supertacky, UST.. it just does not want to mount good on these rims. Maxxis has a Minion DHF tire that is the same thing (Supertacky, DH Casings, UST) and also 2.5 but it's foldable instead of wire bead. I found one and ordered it with the hope that the non wire bead will allow just enough stretching for it to mount right - will post back with results. By the way, on the Product Q & A tab on that link at Price Point they say that tire is not tubeless compatible.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

pb123hou said:


> Thanks for the link, but I was looking for the Minion with the downhill casings and supertacky. I love the tire I have 2.5, DH cas., Supertacky, UST.. it just does not want to mount good on these rims. Maxxis has a Minion DHF tire that is the same thing (Supertacky, DH Casings, UST) and also 2.5 but it's foldable instead of wire bead. I found one and ordered it with the hope that the non wire bead will allow just enough stretching for it to mount right - will post back with results. By the way, on the Product Q & A tab on that link at Price Point they say that tire is not tubeless compatible.


Glad u found what u were looking for. However they are tubeless compatible. I've been running them since 2006 tubeless without issue and you save a bunch of rotating weight by running the non UST version. But if your just using them for DH it doesn't matter too much. Just accelerating or braking is easier with a lighter wheel. The folding should mount a lot easier though.:thumbsup:


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

Shredman69 said:


> Glad u found what u were looking for. However they are tubeless compatible. I've been running them since 2006 tubeless without issue and you save a bunch of rotating weight by running the non UST version. But if your just using them for DH it doesn't matter too much. Just accelerating or braking is easier with a lighter wheel. The folding should mount a lot easier though.:thumbsup:


That Q & A page on that link is just stating what Maxxis says about those tires. On the Maxxis website there are matrix's for every model tire and all the variations for each model. Most of their tires do not have the 'TR' (tubeless ready) designation, some do. Maxxis does not designate them as tubeless ready, (or UST either). Of course UST is the Universal Standard for Tubeless tires and I'm sure Maxxis's 'TR' is their proprietary tubeless tire design, just like Specialized's for instance has their proprietary tubeless design called '2 Bliss', as other manufacturers have theirs. 
I'm not sure what exactly the difference is that sets Maxxis's 'TR' tires apart from those that aren't. I'm also not saying those that aren't can't be used in a tubeless setup. But the proprietary tubeless designs follow the manufacturers specs and tests for tubeless use just as all UST tires have to conform to the Universal Standard. All those tires that don't meet either requirement are then designated as "not tubeless compatible". It legally helps cover the tire manufacturer if someone breaks their neck on a tire that isn't "tubeless compatible". And it also costs less to make the "not tubeless compatible" tires. Since I plan to start using Maxxis tires a lot more, I'm going to call and find out the specific difference between 'TR' and 'Not TR' - I would suspect that the difference is mostly or all In the bead, but I'll post what they tell me for anyone that is interested in knowing.


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Hi, 

I've mounted LB 38mm rims on my bike a few months ago with a new Maxxis minion DHF Supertacky 2.3 on front and DHR 2.3 on rear. 

I feel I need more grip on front, because on gravel and flat terrain it slides more than my old rims with a HRoller's.

Yesterday the front tyre was cutted by a rock, so now I want to prove some new tyre.

I am thinking about minion DHF 2.5 UST but the weight penalty is important. (860g vs 1180g aprox).

There's another tyre, Hans Dampf 2.35 with in 860g. This tyre has a good balloon so I think it would be a good choice. 

What do you think about it? Any recomendations? 

Type of terrain: any type..rocks, roots, and some gravel. 70% of year in dry conditions 30% wet.

Thanks!!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi,
> 
> I've mounted LB 38mm rims on my bike a few months ago with a new Maxxis minion DHF Supertacky 2.3 on front and DHR 2.3 on rear.
> 
> ...


I have the DHF EXO 2.5 (not UST, it's a lot lighter than the UST) and I also have the Hans Dampf. I like both, but the Hans is lighter and hooks up better on hard pack. The Hans also has a rounder profile and larger casing than the DHF, so even though it's a 2.35, it's bigger than the 2.5 Minion.


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Hi Shred, thanks for your response

You run a non UST tyre as tubeless? It need more liquid sealant? 

I think both tyres are similar..
On terms of durability, I heard that HD is bad. 

If I can mount minion 2.5 without UST as a tubeless tyre I will try it

Thx!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi Shred, thanks for your response
> 
> You run a non UST tyre as tubeless? It need more liquid sealant?
> 
> ...


I've been running tubeless for about 7 years and I've never used a UST tire. Most tires now a days are tubeless ready. UST is an old standard that is just not necessary. UST tires are a lot heavier and it kind of defeats the weight advantage of running tubeless. I use 2oz of Stan's in each wheel.


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## Mishtar (Jun 3, 2011)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi Shred, thanks for your response
> 
> You run a non UST tyre as tubeless? It need more liquid sealant?
> 
> ...


The HD has durability issues as a rear tire but it is not as bad as a front tire.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Mishtar said:


> The HD has durability issues as a rear tire but it is not as bad as a front tire.


I think a lot of schwalbes are known to have durability/longevity issues. I believe due to the soft compounds they use, and light(ish) casings. They provide great traction but at the disadvantage of a shorter lifespan.


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

WTB Breakout in 2.3 or 2.5 Tough Casing. High Grip rubber front, Fast Rolling rear. End of tire discussion. I use the 2.5s on my Nomad and 2.3s on my 5010.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

But they don't make those in 26" do they?


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Oh yeah, I forgot this was the 26" thread. Sold those rims for pennies on the dollar on ebay. 26" users are killing it in the used market. Not doing so well in the tire market. I'm trying to keep our shop stocked but the supply of 26" tires is dwindling by the week.


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

Lelandjt said:


> Oh yeah, I forgot this was the 26" thread. Sold those rims for pennies on the dollar on ebay. 26" users are killing it in the used market. Not doing so well in the tire market. I'm trying to keep our shop stocked but the supply of 26" tires is dwindling by the week.


LOL, I've stocked up and don't ever plan on selling my 26". I've got about 10 new sets on hand that I picked up on sale. Schwalbe, Maxxis, Onza and others. My supply should last awhile.:thumbsup:


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

Are any of the Chinese manufacturers building a 26" rim with offset/angled spoke drilling?


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## m2ms (Aug 19, 2015)

pb123hou said:


> Thanks for the link, but I was looking for the Minion with the downhill casings and supertacky. I love the tire I have 2.5, DH cas., Supertacky, UST.. MRR wheels it just does not want to mount good on these rims. Maxxis has a Minion DHF tire that is the same thing (Supertacky, DH Casings, UST) and also 2.5 but it's foldable instead of wire bead. I found one and ordered it with the hope that the non wire bead will allow just enough stretching esm wheels for it to mount right - will post back with results. By the way, on the Product Q & A tab on that link at Price Point they say that tire is not tubeless compatible.


Thank you for info! help a lot!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

RTM said:


> Are any of the Chinese manufacturers building a 26" rim with offset/angled spoke drilling?


Derby is. Not sure about LB.


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## jmzstyle (Dec 3, 2014)

Hi ppl! 

Wich kind of tape do you use to run LB Rims tubeless? 

I've installed the XSauce tape in 23mm wide option. My rims are LB 26" 38mm outer, 33mm inner. 

I'm not sure about if this is the good tape because there are air loss in the spoke holes.

Any opinion about this? Thanks!


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## Shredman69 (Apr 1, 2007)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi ppl!
> 
> Wich kind of tape do you use to run LB Rims tubeless?
> 
> ...


12mm Stan's. It covers the channel only, not the rim bed so the tire is easier to mount and the tape doesn't get messed up when u change tires.


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## ckspeed (May 25, 2012)

You can also use 18mm wide strapping tape.


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## RTM (Sep 17, 2005)

jmzstyle said:


> Hi ppl!
> 
> Wich kind of tape do you use to run LB Rims tubeless?
> 
> ...


I've had to be very diligent (overly diligent I think) with applying the dedicated tubeless tapes. I've repeatedly used Gorilla tape and installation could not be easier. Slightly heavier, but easier to apply, more consistent results, extremely durable and cheap. Its a great option.


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## pb123hou (May 26, 2015)

RTM said:


> I've had to be very diligent (overly diligent I think) with applying the dedicated tubeless tapes. I've repeatedly used Gorilla tape and installation could not be easier. Slightly heavier, but easier to apply, more consistent results, extremely durable and cheap. Its a great option.


Gorilla tape does work well and it is easy to use. In fact, here is a quote from a pinkbike tech article:

The CEO of One of the world's most prestigious carbon wheel makers mentioned that they tested a number of wheel sealing tapes and discovered that over-the-counter Gorilla Tape performed better than anything they found. The wheel maker ships its tubeless wheels with Gorilla Tape - albeit, custom cut and rolled to exact specifications - but Gorilla Tape nonetheless.

This article explains how to get a wider roll the exact width of your rim: Tech Tuesday: Gorilla Tape Tubeless Conversion - Pinkbike


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