# Stuff that is expensive and worth it



## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

For me these pretty much all fall into the same category - stuff that lasts forever, performs flawlessly, doesn't require much maintenance if any, or some combination of the three.

I'll go first - X01 and XX1 cassettes and chains. They cost too much but last forever. I mean, I think they might actually last forever.

DT Swiss alloy wheel builds like the EX1700. A grand for aluminum wheels is too much, but they are utterly bombproof and mine have never broken a spoke or needed truing or hub attention (350s) over 4 years.

Yours?


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## SkyAboveDirtBelow (Apr 14, 2019)

Smart trainer. I was reluctant to dish out a thou on one because I have a couple of dumb trainers plus rollers and had never been able to force myself to use them much. So it felt like there was a good chance I would be flushing money down the toilet. Turned out it might have been the best bike accessory purchase I ever made.


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## 834905 (Mar 8, 2018)

Onyx hubs.


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## milehi (Nov 2, 1997)

Gravity Dropper posts. 15 years and over 10000 miles and I haven't touched it.


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## djlee (Feb 5, 2009)

Orange Seal Endurance sealant
Maxxis Assegai tires


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

I know they didn't paint it or even put decals on, and there are plastic parts but it....

1) Fits my aging body shrinking above the hips.
2) Added about few hours more that I be on a bike in a day.
3) Made me perfectly happy selling other bikes.
4) Facilitated finishing some long all/any/road/gravel/tour/singletrack rides that failed or left me hurting prior.
5) We share the same birthday.

A current photo might make some sad because it's filth dirty. At first I was a little embarrassed to get a Moots but I tried lots of stuff and it really is fantastic.


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## NorCal_In_AZ (Sep 26, 2019)

BadgerOne said:


> DT Swiss alloy wheel builds like the EX1700. A grand for aluminum wheels is too much, but they are utterly bombproof and mine have never broken a spoke or needed truing or hub attention (350s) over 4 years.


I spent $1000 on EX 511's, with DT Swiss spokes, and RaceFace Vault Hubs. Those rims are amazing.


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Sidis (at least the old Made in Italy ones I have)


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## Mac_89 (Mar 24, 2021)

Hope headsets and bottom brackets. In the last 18 months I've had two full sets of pivot bearings - all Enduro brand - and some of them completely f***ed by perma-mud and rain. Rusted solid. Meanwhile my Hope headset and BB are still smooth as silk after 2 years. Never had so much as a creak out of them.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Kit: Bell Super Air Full face helmet, Seven IDP Transition Shin-Knee pads, Pearl Izumi Launch Mid flat pedal shoes, EVOC FR Enduro Pack with Spine Protection
Bike: We are One Union rims and Onyx Hubs

All my other stuff is not that expensive relatively speaking, aluminum parts and frame, though it's probably worth mentioning that my frame swap habits are expensive


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## Steel-Onions (Sep 3, 2021)

Well, expensive for what they are...
76Projects High Flow 'no clog' Tubeless valves, makes seating tyres easy with just a few pushes on a track pump, makes booster pumps obsolete i reckon..
Park Tool bike stand, so much more solid than my cheaper previous 2 stands


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## williamson36 (Mar 24, 2006)

outbound lighting lights


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

1Up hitch racks


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm gonna stray off course from all of the component stuff and place my vote on high quality & superbly designed and made tools. Nothing like holding a high-end and well finished tool.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

A good workstand is worth the expense.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

This floor shock pump was a splurge item for me, well worth all 12,500 pennies:









SHOCK DIGITAL DRIVE


CNC machined aluminum and steel construction with varnished wood handle. Ultra-narrow barrel provides efficient tuning up to 300 psi. High-grade, nylon-reinforced braided hose with aluminum couplers. Ultra precise, hardened steel ABS chuck. Chuck features rapid-release, or fine-release, tuning...




ride.lezyne.com


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

My Manitou Mezzer has only impressed me with its performance. I've been through a lot of forks over the decades and nothing comes close to it. I usually don't spend big on bike stuff, but the Mezzer was well worth it.

Good call on the DT Swiss wheels. I have the M1700's and they're solid kit.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Steel-Onions said:


> Well, expensive for what they are...
> 76Projects High Flow 'no clog' Tubeless valves, makes seating tyres easy with just a few pushes on a track pump, makes booster pumps obsolete i reckon..
> Park Tool bike stand, so much more solid than my cheaper previous 2 stands


No clog tubeless valves? I could certainly use such a product.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

We are one composite rims.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Great thread! except I'm pullin my wallet out now. Here's one...

WERA Hex & L-Key Wrench Set


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## 006_007 (Jan 12, 2004)

TraxFactory said:


> Great thread! except I'm pullin my wallet out now. Here's one...
> 
> WERA Hex & L-Key Wrench Set


These are right up in my favorites just behind my knipex plier wrench.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

Agree with the comments above re X01 and XX1 cassettes and chains. Wow. Foreva.

Also agree with the smart trainer. Although it cost more than my blinged out Honzo, my Wahoo KICKR bike is a sanity saver in inclimate (sic?) weather.

I will add 7Mesh and Arc’teryx attire. Expensive AF, and worth every penny. Some 45NRTH stuff as well, although it’s a little more hit and miss.

I would have added AXS but I have been riding a cable actuated drivetrain all winter (an XX1/X01/GX mix) and it’s been mind blowingly awesome. I still love my AXS, but not quite as much since putting some decent mileage on that non-AXS drivetrain.

What else? Hmmm…


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## R3aPerCr3W (11 mo ago)

Nat said:


> A good workstand is worth the expense.



What are you using right now ?


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

R3aPerCr3W said:


> What are you using right now ?


Blackburn something or other that I bought over twenty years ago


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## JeT442 (Mar 4, 2019)

As far as droppers go: Fox Transfer


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## BlackPenquinn (Nov 7, 2014)

AXS XX1 and X01 are fantastic, but the AXS dropper is the real game changer. That thing is almost telepathic

The other one I would gladly buy again are my 3zero moto rims. Three seasons riding rocky and rooty terrain and they ride beautifully, stay true and look great.


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Bike Yoke Revive

Professional repair stand. Mine is an old school Park with a custom made 1" round (so you can move it) steel base. If you can't flip a mtn. tandem upside down, it's not a real stand.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It has to flip a tandem to be a real stand?


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## Jwiffle (Jan 26, 2004)

I like nice toys, so lots of expensive parts, but I feel they are worth it. Fox Transfer factory posts. Yeah, you can get posts for less that work, but my Fox ones have always worked really well. (Could really say the same for Fox forks and shocks - they're all pricey, but work well ime). I9 hubs, Hope hubs. I9 are a bit more expensive, but made here in the states. I pretty much stick to these for my builds, but DT hubs are excellent, too. Light Bicycle carbon rims. As far as carbon rims go, they're very reasonable, but they are still carbon, so more than good aluminum rims. But I run them on all my bikes.


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## galedhduck (Feb 4, 2004)

Lupine rebuildable lights and batteries, tail light and headlight. My battery lasted 7 years (keep them topped). 
Bontrager thick neoprene winter tights. Years. Better than Cannondales stuff that would last 2 years.
Lake winter boots. Years of daily winter use in 5-10k mi years.
Specialized Arc Ti photochromic glasses. 15 grams, ~3-5 years daily use, on 2nd and 3rd pairs.
Disposable hot hands foot packs with adhesive from Costco for $15, money down the drain, well-spent.
I second the old real leather Sidis that lasted 10 years. The new SWorks are good, too.
And bikes. All bikes are expensive, and worth it.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

I'm going to say a shock that's been custom tuned for you, your bike and riding style by a proper suspension shop

While air can be really nice nothing beats a proper setup / tuned coil & oil.

This just takes it up a notch and such a pleasure to rip on.

PUSH, EXT, DVO and Avalanche just to name a few I've dealt with. Sooo good, not cheap.


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## rtonthat (11 mo ago)

rtsideup said:


> Bike Yoke Revive
> 
> Professional repair stand. Mine is an old school Park with a custom made 1" round (so you can move it) steel base. If you can't flip a mtn. tandem upside down, it's not a real stand.


+1 on the bike yoke revive.

And my kuat rack. Coming from a crappy hanging rack..this thing is bomb.


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

Abbey crombie/whip


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## natas1321 (Nov 4, 2017)

SC hightower cc xo1 build, keep trying to replace it but it keeps going and does everything well. 

Sent from my moto g(7) supra using Tapatalk


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## rix24 (Sep 10, 2020)

Nat said:


> 1Up hitch racks


This!!! I know, I know.. everyone says this but there's good reasons. Other racks are too bulky/heavy for my little hatchback with 1.25 inch tow hitch. Love the minimalist look and form factor of just have one rack. When needed, I can add another rack in 5 mins.


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## richj8990 (Apr 4, 2017)

BadgerOne said:


> For me these pretty much all fall into the same category - stuff that lasts forever, performs flawlessly, doesn't require much maintenance if any, or some combination of the three.
> 
> I'll go first - X01 and XX1 cassettes and chains. They cost too much but last forever. I mean, I think they might actually last forever.
> 
> ...



I got one: Nostradamus' predictions. They last forever, they more or less perform flawlessly, and they don't require too much maintenance.


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## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

My Ripmo


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

Everything good - Quality only hurts once.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Spur Cycles bell.


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

Titanium frame.

Sent from my brain using my hand.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

Know why divorce is so expensive? 

Because it's worth it.


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## RickBullottaPA (Mar 4, 2015)

Quality tools for sure - Wera, Festool, etc.

DT Swiss 240S hubs

Studded winter tires

Winter riding shoes

Fuggedaboutit chains/high quality locks


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

Timothy G. Parrish said:


> Titanium frame.
> 
> Sent from my brain using my hand.


I was going to include this in my original post. Agree 100%.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

1) helmets (Stage full face, A3 half)
2) brakes (Code RSC)
3) comfortable stuff (Assos, Nezium, Ergon SM Enduro Pro)
4) tires (obviously)
5) shoes (510 FP)


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Used 1994 specialized hardrock. I paid like $200 for it in 95(🤪!) but that has worked out to less than 4 bucks a year. Totally worth it


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Used 1994 specialized hardrock. I paid like $200 for it in 95(!) but that has worked out to less than 4 bucks a year. Totally worth it


Per the title of the thread, how is this expensive?

Sent from my brain using my hand.


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## stripes (Sep 6, 2016)

For me:

suspension and suspension tuning
custom wheel builds, including good hubs
helmets, always
tires
knee guards


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I am more of an Occam's Principle (do more with less) kind of guy and I'm known to friends and family as being "fiscally retentive" but I splurge on Moots bikes and on travel because those are worth it to me.


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Timothy G. Parrish said:


> Per the title of the thread, how is this expensive?
> 
> Sent from my brain using my hand.


Trust me, to a kid who had to panhandle for dope money, it was expensive. What is your personal cutoff line for expensive vs not? My current car cost me $2300, so the bike is almost 10% of that. Anyone else spending that percentage of their vehicle on a toy and not think it expensive?


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

eMTB.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Trust me, to a kid who had to panhandle for dope money, it was expensive. What is your personal cutoff line for expensive vs not? My current car cost me $2300, so the bike is almost 10% of that. Anyone else spending that percentage of their vehicle on a toy and not think it expensive?











Who has a bike is worth more than their car?


Who has a bike is worth more than their car? Everyone thinks I am nuts to have such a pricey bike and beat down car. To me it is totally warranted because the bike has a lot of pleasurable value in it for me. Cars are great, but I drive like a grandma and ride my bike like a downhill racer...




www.mtbr.com


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

Jwiffle said:


> I like nice toys, so lots of expensive parts, but I feel they are worth it. Fox Transfer factory posts. Yeah, you can get posts for less that work, but my Fox ones have always worked really well. (Could really say the same for Fox forks and shocks - they're all pricey, but work well ime). I9 hubs, Hope hubs. I9 are a bit more expensive, but made here in the states. I pretty much stick to these for my builds, but DT hubs are excellent, too. Light Bicycle carbon rims. As far as carbon rims go, they're very reasonable, but they are still carbon, so more than good aluminum rims. But I run them on all my bikes.


For some reason I read this post (and only this post) the way some old money rich lady might review a fine dining restaurant.

I copy and pasted the first review I saw from my local ones on Google. Perfect example:

_"I have been to dozens of countries, and the greatest joy is to explore the local specialties. Restaurant environment,_ _hygiene, service、Food styling has artistic effect, taste, health...is the standard I like. This is my second time dining at Amorette and I love it. Award-winning chef team and Professional Sommelier."_


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

BadgerOne said:


> I was going to include this in my original post. Agree 100%.


Disagree. Some *may be worth it, it depends on how they ride. *You can make a ti frame too stiff or have geo that isn't optimum for your conditions. It takes quality engineering like a good aluminum or carbon frame. Otherwise it totally isn't worth the extra or even regular price.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Trust me, to a kid who had to panhandle for dope money, it was expensive. What is your personal cutoff line for expensive vs not? My current car cost me $2300, so the bike is almost 10% of that. Anyone else spending that percentage of their vehicle on a toy and not think it expensive?


Well ... Yeah. My car is worth about $35k and I wouldn't consider a $3500 bike expensive. Not that $3500 isn't a lot of money, it is, but compared to other bikes nowadays I wouldn't call it expensive. 

And if you were panhandling for dope money, there's no possible chance you actually spent $200 of that and bought a mountain bike. And if you did, we both know you'd either return it or take it to the pawn shop within 6 hours!!

Edit: Someone else pointed out this was mean and rereading it, yeah it was. I guess I get tired of the qualifier that I was in the same position and figured since 1994 enough time passef where he can make light of it. 

I shouldn't make those assumptions. 

I'll go sit in the corner now.


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## BadgerOne (Jul 17, 2015)

eb1888 said:


> Disagree. Some *may be worth it, it depends on how they ride. *You can make a ti frame too stiff or have geo that isn't optimum for your conditions. It takes quality engineering like a good aluminum or carbon frame. Otherwise it totally isn't worth the extra or even regular price.


That was implied. So far I'm batting a thousand on Ti. Go with a reputable brand and mfg house and buy a frame for the intended purpose with correct geo, and it is rarely a mistake.


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

I have found Gloworm lights to be expensive but worth it. They aren't crazy expensive, but relative to the many lower cost options available these days, I find their consistent quality, adaptability, and reliability to be worth the extra cost.


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## Dkayak (12 mo ago)

BlackPenquinn said:


> AXS XX1 and X01 are fantastic, but the AXS dropper is the real game changer. That thing is almost telepathic.


I appreciate AXS shifting and obviously need a dropper, but the AXS dropper is in a class of its own. Don’t try it unless you’re willing to buy one.


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## bad mechanic (Jun 21, 2006)

2021Mach6 said:


> And if you were panhandling for dope money, there's no possible chance you actually spent $200 of that and bought a mountain bike. And if you did, we both know you'd either return it or take it to the pawn shop within 6 hours!!


Not cool to attack him like that.


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## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

bad mechanic said:


> Not cool to attack him like that.


Meant to be a joke but I see what you mean. I'll clean it up!


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## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

baker said:


> I have found Gloworm lights to be expensive but worth it. They aren't crazy expensive, but relative to the many lower cost options available these days, I find their consistent quality, adaptability, and reliability to be worth the extra cost.


I would agree with this. Good lights are definitely worth the cost over cheap brands.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Maxxis max grip minions,
Push 11-6 with custom tune,
2017 rocky slayer frame. 
Renthal carbon bar and stem combo.


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## mlx john (Mar 22, 2010)

rtonthat said:


> +1 on the bike yoke revive.
> 
> And my kuat rack. Coming from a crappy hanging rack..this thing is bomb.


+1 on both of those.
Also agree on X01/XX cassettes/chains

Carbon fiber wheels (rims)- Bontrager Line Pro 30 and Spez Carbon Roval Traverse.
I've had the Bonty's for 4 years. Did rebuild the rear around a DT 350. The rim has tons of scratches from rock impacts, but still going strong. Have had the Rovals for 2 years, no issues.

Hubs. 350's for me, seemingly bomb proof.

Another +1 on tools. Pro level stand is totally worth it if you do your own wrenching.


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## socal_jack (Dec 30, 2008)

Timothy G. Parrish said:


> Titanium frame.
> 
> Sent from my brain using my hand.


I would add the Thomson Ti 800mm 30mm rise bars I built my Radimus up with, great feel.


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

ANY indoor trainer would last forever.
In my case, anyway. 
Wouldn’t even have to be expensive.
It’d just sit there.
=sParty


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## Fairbanks007 (Sep 5, 2009)

phantoj said:


> Sidis (at least the old Made in Italy ones I have)


Those were great! My pair lasted about 13-14 years.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Oh yeah, I spent a good chunk on my Hayes Dominion A4 brakes and that was money well spent. It's imperative to have great brakes on our steep terrain here.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

baker said:


> I have found Gloworm lights to be expensive but worth it. They aren't crazy expensive, but...


Agreed!
I have the XS and the X2. Great lights, but these 2 lights are over $600. That's pretty expensive to me.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Onyx hubs.



I'm going to give that two thumbs up. I have one on my bikepacking bike. Combined with a belt drive it is so quiet that I'm shocked to ride a regular bike.


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## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

1. Hope Bottom Brackets.
2. Orange Seal sealant.
3. SRAM Eagle XO1 groupset.
4. Pinion gearboxes
5. Rohloff Speedhubs
6. Solace Cycles frames and bikes.
7. Tubolito inner tubes


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## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> 1. Hope Bottom Brackets.
> 2. Orange Seal sealant.
> 3. SRAM Eagle XO1 groupset.
> 4. Pinion gearboxes
> ...


Interesting list...

2. Is Orangle Seal expensive? I thought it was comparable to the other sealants I've used. Anyway, it does work well, IME.

5. I have one and I'm not really sold on it. It is in the OK, but maybe not worth the $$$

7. I had no luck with the 3 tubolito tubes I tried. All of them quickly developed pinholes and leaked.


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## TraxFactory (Sep 10, 1999)

Ailuropoda said:


> 1. Hope Bottom Brackets.
> 2. Orange Seal sealant.
> 3. SRAM Eagle XO1 groupset.
> 4. Pinion gearboxes
> ...


Ran the Rohloff on my Turner Sultan's (3 different bikes) for about 4 years, truly amazing...would like to get back to a IGH someday!


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## Oddball 61 (Jul 17, 2021)

TraxFactory said:


> Great thread! except I'm pullin my wallet out now. Here's one...
> 
> WERA Hex & L-Key Wrench Set


Wera stuff is excellent quality,deffo worth it.


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## tatchance (Mar 24, 2004)

mfa81 said:


> Abbey crombie/whip
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For me I just can't do it... I love tools and quality ones at that. I just don't use a chain whip, freewheel tool enough to spend the cash for those. They look great and if I was still wrenching for a shop I probably would.


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## klatekin (Oct 13, 2017)

Bike Yoke Revive Dropper


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Used 1994 specialized hardrock. I paid like $200 for it in 95(🤪!) but that has worked out to less than 4 bucks a year. Totally worth it


Stay in School kids........

2022 - 1995 = 27 years * $4 = $108


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## eri (Sep 4, 2012)

tatchance said:


> For me I just can't do it... I love tools and quality ones at that. I just don't use a chain whip, freewheel tool enough to spend the cash for those. They look great and if I was still wrenching for a shop I probably would.


$65 for a chain whip: how the heck is that money well spent? Get the $8 one on amazon, last you a lifetime. I've owned the same cheap one for decades and I need it but never ever did I consider buying another. There's tools that are worth extra, good collets, ring pliers, but chain whip doesn't need any special construction, $65 is just baloney.

My contribution to 'spensive and worth it:

chris king bottom bracket
high quality spokes/nipples


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## OldSchoolMBer (May 25, 2013)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Trust me, to a kid who had to panhandle for dope money, it was expensive. What is your personal cutoff line for expensive vs not? My current car cost me $2300, so the bike is almost 10% of that. Anyone else spending that percentage of their vehicle on a toy and not think it expensive?


Adjusted for inflation your bike cost $368 in today's dollars so about 16% of your car's value...but who's counting?


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## OldSchoolMBer (May 25, 2013)

Bassmantweed said:


> Stay in School kids........
> 
> 2022 - 1995 = 27 years * $4 = $108


...at least off the dope anyway


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## terrasmak (Jun 14, 2011)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Onyx hubs.


Profile is so much better


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

....


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

One of my favorite specialized tools that prolly would be considered expensive, gets used considerably more than I would have thought. I think that I've used it more on friends bikes than mine. Abby HAG. Very nice troubleshooter and fixer.


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

*OneSpeed* said:


> ***


We really DO need a "groan" emoji. For now, golf clap. 👏


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> It has to flip a tandem to be a real stand?


IMHO, Yes!
Bolted to a concrete floor would be best but, a big slab of round steel gets you most of the way there while still being able to roll it around. It's not that I'm working on tandems much, it's that I want the bike to rock solid if I'm working on stuck stuff or even delicate stuff. The tandem is just a metric.


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## rtsideup (Mar 21, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> One of my favorite specialized tools that prolly would be considered expensive, gets used considerably more than I would have thought. I think that I've used it more on friends bikes than mine. Abby HAG. Very nice troubleshooter and fixer.
> 
> View attachment 1971071


My Park DAG won't work with my current dropouts. May need to consider this upgrade. How much hurt is involved with this gem?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

rtsideup said:


> The tandem is just a metric.


I get the metric.


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## pedalinbob (Jan 12, 2004)

My wife and kids. 

As for mountain biking stuff...
Like many of us, I grew up fairly poor, so I'm naturally frugal.
I've worked incredibly hard to attain a position which allows the ability to afford any bike or components I want.
Yet...I can't defeat my ingrained frugality! 

But one expensive item (in my overly frugal opinion) that is absolutely worth it, is quality tires.
A good set can really transform a bike. 

Bob


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

noapathy said:


> We really DO need a "groan" emoji. For now, golf clap. 👏


Nah, I didn't like it. Deleted.


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## OldSchoolMBer (May 25, 2013)

rtsideup said:


> IMHO, Yes!
> Bolted to a concrete floor would be best but, a big slab of round steel gets you most of the way there while still being able to roll it around. It's not that I'm working on tandems much, it's that I want the bike to rock solid if I'm working on stuck stuff or even delicate stuff. The tandem is just a metric.


I get that. My favorite work bench is one my dad built with a ground flat 1.5" steel plate. Weighs about 750# and overkill for anything I do but something about the solidity of it makes it so nice to work on


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## mfa81 (Apr 1, 2011)

rtsideup said:


> My Park DAG won't work with my current dropouts. May need to consider this upgrade. How much hurt is involved with this gem?


I think they are like $180 or something like that but it’s a really nice tool, really well built! It’s definitely for those who like high quality made in usa!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Cleared2land said:


> One of my favorite specialized tools that prolly would be considered expensive, gets used considerably more than I would have thought. I think that I've used it more on friends bikes than mine. Abby HAG. Very nice troubleshooter and fixer.
> 
> View attachment 1971071


I have the ZTTO Chinese knockoff of that... it belongs in a thread of, "times I kicked myself for being cheap"


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## noapathy (Jun 24, 2008)

phantoj said:


> I have the ZTTO Chinese knockoff of that... it belongs in a thread of, "times I kicked myself for being cheap"


A lot of their stuff is kinda meh. I like their dropper remotes. Almost as good as the Wolftooth, which would fit on this list.


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## R3aPerCr3W (11 mo ago)

NYrr496 said:


> Know why divorce is so expensive?
> 
> Because it's worth it.


Wait what's that got to do with .. 

Love


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## Grinchy8 (Jul 6, 2021)

phantoj said:


> I have the ZTTO Chinese knockoff of that... it belongs in a thread of, "times I kicked myself for being cheap"


Start this thread!


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## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

Bassmantweed said:


> Stay in School kids........
> 
> 2022 - 1995 = 27 years * $4 = $108


Shoot. Does that mean that I spent MORE than 7 bucks a year? Maybe it wasn't worth it after all. I have to rethink the last quarter century of riding now.


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## Bassmantweed (Nov 10, 2019)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Shoot. Does that mean that I spent MORE than 7 bucks a year? Maybe it wasn't worth it after all. I have to rethink the last quarter century of riding now.


sorry to be the bearer of such bad news.


----------



## MattiThundrrr (Jul 6, 2019)

OldSchoolMBer said:


> Adjusted for inflation your bike cost $368 in today's dollars so about 16% of your car's value...but who's counting?


I bought the car about 5 years ago, does that adjust the numbers in my favor? Inflation been up there lately.


----------



## OldSchoolMBer (May 25, 2013)

MattiThundrrr said:


> I bought the car about 5 years ago, does that adjust the numbers in my favor? Inflation been up there lately.


It goes the other way a little, $368 and $2867...12.8%. We've got it nailed down pretty close now


----------



## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

1. Chris King and DT Swiss 240s hubs.

2. XTR brakes.

Though, I haven't paid full freight for the two sets I have. One came on a used bike purchase and the other I bought used from someone who went Magura gaga. XT's are probably fine too...

3. Low rolling resistance and high quality MTB and gravel tires.


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Custom frames. Custom paint/powder coat. Custom rims.

Make it unique. Make it yours.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Studded fat tires. Worth every penny.


----------



## geokite (May 17, 2007)

Digital torque wrench (Topeak, 1-20Nm)


----------



## norcalbike (Dec 17, 2004)

edubfromktown said:


> 1. Chris King and DT Swiss 240s hubs.
> 
> 2. XTR brakes.
> 
> ...


SLX and Deore are also fine. All the same **** with slightly different weights


----------



## electricdownhill805 (May 25, 2020)

High pivot carbon fiber frame


----------



## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Rohloff Speedhub

Got my first one 20 years ago , has over 100K km on it, still running strong.


----------



## azjonboy (Dec 21, 2006)

American fabricated Ti, custom frame, handlebars and seatposts
Onyx hubs
Boone cogs / chainrings
Brooks saddles


----------



## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

geokite said:


> Digital torque wrench (Topeak, 1-20Nm)


Don’t overpay simply because it’s a “bike” company. 

Go AcDelco, or something like that in the 1-18lbs range.


----------



## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Time ATAC pedals. I have a couple sets that are 20-25 years old with more miles on them than my car. Paid a small fortune for them back in the day but they're still working fine today. Time Speciale 8 seems to be just as good, but I've only been beating on them for 3 years so it's hard to say how the long term durability is like. Ask me again in 5-10 years.


----------



## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

MattiThundrrr said:


> Trust me, to a kid who had to panhandle for dope money, it was expensive. What is your personal cutoff line for expensive vs not? My current car cost me $2300, so the bike is almost 10% of that. Anyone else spending that percentage of their vehicle on a toy and not think it expensive?


To most (sane) adults, you’d be 100% right. On mtb nerdery sites it’s pretty laughable.
I bought my 2016 Ford Escape 2 years ago for like $16k. My two bikes combined cost about $11k, and they’re not even ‘super nice’.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

XTR chain rings. I have one that is pushing 15000km. It still take a new chain.


----------



## CRM6 (Apr 7, 2021)

NorCal_In_AZ said:


> I spent $1000 on EX 511's, with DT Swiss spokes, and RaceFace Vault Hubs. Those rims are amazing.


I have these rims on both my ebike (Factor hubs) and pedal bike (I9 Hydras). Absolutely Love them! Beat em up pretty bad but they have performed flawlessly.


----------



## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Did no one say breast implants?





Breast implants.


----------



## Ailuropoda (Dec 15, 2010)

Patagonia Nanopuff jackets. Worth every penny. Often the difference between misery and a pleasant day. You can get a cheaper down jacket for layering but nothing else I've tried compares. Weighs nothing.

More bikepacking related; anything from Tarptent like the Rainbow.








Patagonia Men's Nano Puff® Jacket


Warm, windproof, water-resistant—the Patagonia Men's Nano Puff® Jacket uses warm, lightweight and highly compressible 60-g PrimaLoft® Gold Insulation Eco.




www.patagonia.com


----------



## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

Back in 2008, the wife and I had Lynskey build us custom road frames. 14 years and tens of thousands of miles later we have no reason to even consider getting new frames.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Dassault Falcon 8X - Why compromise anything?


----------



## ungod (Apr 16, 2011)

Cleared2land said:


> Dassault Falcon 8X - Why compromise anything?
> 
> View attachment 1971491


My step father in law is/was a private jet pilot and I've flown several times with him in the cockpit and as a passenger with his boss (oil money). There's truly no other way to travel. 

Personally I find that most expensive things are worth the money, to an extent. Shoes, clothes, kitchen goods. Everything that's cheap these days is designed for a limited life span or defective from day 1.


----------



## baker (Jan 6, 2004)

Ailuropoda said:


> Patagonia Nanopuff jackets. Worth every penny. Often the difference between misery and a pleasant day. You can get a cheaper down jacket for layering but nothing else I've tried compares. Weighs nothing.
> 
> More bikepacking related; anything from Tarptent like the Rainbow.
> 
> ...


I've actually found most Patagonia stuff to be worth it in the long run, especially if you can find it on sale to begin with. Almost everything I've purchased from them (nano puff, some lightweight hoodie sunblock pullover, a generic fleece, etc) has fit well, served its purpose, and been surprisingly durable. Your post actually made me pull the trigger on this pullover this morning. I'd been hemming and hawing but realized I'll likely have it for decades...






Climbing Clothing & Gear by Patagonia


Built for the gamut—explore climbing clothing, packs and gear for a range of alpine and rock climbing conditions. Free Shipping over $99.




www.patagonia.com


----------



## geokite (May 17, 2007)

WhiteDLite said:


> Don’t overpay simply because it’s a “bike” company.
> Go AcDelco, or something like that in the 1-18lbs range.


Paid $170, less than the comparable ARM313-2A from ac-delco, and the Topeka goes down to 1Nm.


----------



## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

geokite said:


> Paid $170, less than the comparable ARM313-2A from ac-delco, and the Topeka goes down to 1Nm.


not to get into a tool debate, but that P/N for ACDelco has an angle feature which is really only important on head studs on engines and such.

Not a fair comparison. The top peak is a good tool and probably made by the same company that makes others anyways.


----------



## Prognosticator (Feb 15, 2021)

Parker Jotter pens
Anything Buck Mason, especially their t-shirts
I have a Billy Reid blazer that is mind blowing
I have a silver chain and bracelet that were made by a jewelry maker in Atlanta that are beautiful
As for MTBing, I tried a couple different pairs of kneepads before springing for POC. They are spendy but worth it.


----------



## nhodge (Jul 6, 2004)

Cleared2land said:


> Dassault Falcon 8X - Why compromise anything?
> 
> View attachment 1971491


But was it worth what you paid for it ?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Is your torque wrench accurate? How do you know?


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Custom Tunes
DT hubs with the ratchet (240/350). One less thing to worry about.
5.10 Freerider Pro (not Primeblue)
Ripmo
Schwalbe Tires
The new specialized MTB pump


----------



## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

……


----------



## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Is your torque wrench accurate? How do you know?


most come with a slip of paper that tells you how accurate they are and at what torque. You’re supposed to get the tool a new recertification every year or sooner depending on field you work in requirements.


----------



## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

However much I paid for my current trail bike. Every time I ride it, I just feel like everything is right. My super nice XC bike is amazing. My road bike (though old) is amazing. But that one MTB just feels right. It was probably twice as much as the van I am driving. Actually, all but my road bike (got that for a steal of a deal) cost more than my van. Which means at any given moment, I have double or triple the value on the inside.

Divorce was probably the best decision of my life, and I still get along with my ex. But it wasn't expensive since I was already flat broke and had almost nothing.


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

WhiteDLite said:


> You’re supposed to get the tool a new recertification every year or sooner depending on field you work in requirements.


Exactly, they don't "stay" calibrated forever.


----------



## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Calibrations are done every three months at my work.

Even stop watches and rulers. Yes, a ruler, goes through a calibration certification (not sure if that is a 3 month cycle though, I need to look).


----------



## Thustlewhumber (Nov 25, 2011)

1) Anything Deity 
2) Anything Chris King
3) Anything higher end Shimano


----------



## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

Jayem said:


> Exactly, they don't "stay" calibrated forever.


a 5-10% variance on a bike is nothing though.


----------



## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

I currently have 4 licensed and insured vehicles, I have more in my FS and gravel bike than 2 of those vehicles.… I’ve alway driven minimalist vehicles because I consider them a waste of money. I only own 1 that’s worth over 30k. But for some reason my wife can’t figure out I splurge on bikes.
It’s a 6 hour drive to my favorite riding spot and the bikes in the back are usually worth more than my vehicle I’m driving.


----------



## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Pipeliner said:


> bikes in the back are usually worth more than my vehicle I’m driving.


I've been there, but in my case the bike was nothing special -- it's just the car was even worse!


----------



## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

I wouldn't feel safe putting my family in a car worth less than my bike, not even all the bikes I have ever owned.
Cars are definitely worth the cost for the advanced safety feature they have now.


----------



## WhiteDLite (Mar 4, 2016)

Ducman said:


> I wouldn't feel safe putting my family in a car worth less than my bike, not even all the bikes I have ever owned.
> Cars are definitely worth the cost for the advanced safety feature they have now.


Any car made in the last 15 years is going to have a safe crash rating. Probably cars much older than that even.

The safety features you mention now are good for those who don’t pay attention to blind spots and such. In fact in teaching someone to drive I’d cover the rear view camera and turn off blind spot assist to teach them proper techniques and not to rely on it. Things can malfunction.

These features mentioned above are nice to haves not necessities. However, me pedaling a 9k bike looking fresh at the trail head, that’s a necessity. I drove a wrecked car for years while my brand new Tacoma sat at the house bc 45mpg and it made me not feel the need to slow down for people trying to cut me off. Id literally let the other car decide to slam on brakes, hit me, or run off road before Yield in my shitbox car. These ladies in Gwagons are not gonna cut me off when they see the two lane road going down to one lane a mile back.

I do want a new AT4 2500 though. I’d never drive it since I daily my newer 2012 unwrecked TDI, but I still want it.


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

There are some fun ways to get you and the bike somewhere without a car. A little pricier than a Corolla, but, you know...


----------



## Taildragger (Mar 13, 2005)

"SCRAPPY"


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Yes indeed!


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I think Patey enjoys the good life.


----------



## Taildragger (Mar 13, 2005)

What's the going rate for an IO-720 crankshaft??


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Patey don't care...It's expensive, but worth it.


----------



## Pipeliner (Oct 30, 2018)

Ducman said:


> I wouldn't feel safe putting my family in a car worth less than my bike, not even all the bikes I have ever owned.
> Cars are definitely worth the cost for the advanced safety feature they have now.


In a collision between my 2001 3/4 ton Suburban and your brand new Honda Pilot, I would rather be aboard my Suburban (that has airbags BTW).


----------



## Ducman (Feb 29, 2004)

Pipeliner said:


> In a collision between my 2001 3/4 ton Suburban and your brand new Honda Pilot, I would rather be aboard my Suburban (that has airbags BTW).


That's fine. You do what is best for you and your family. It's kinda odd to think a vehicle 20 years old will have the same crumple zone and passenger compartment technology as todays car. Or the ability to stop or maneuver to avoid the collision Its much easier just to believe the bigger car is safer


----------



## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

Barr chisels. That‘s my story and I’m sticking with it.


btw, I’ve seen small cars in high speed accidents that I would not want to be in , in a body on frame vehicle. By high speed, I mean 200khm+


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

dysfunction said:


> Barr chisels. That‘s my story and I’m sticking with it.
> 
> 
> btw, I’ve seen small cars in high speed accidents that I would not want to be in , in a body on frame vehicle. By high speed, I mean 200khm+


l wouldnt want to be in any vehicle at a 200kmh crash, tegardless of its age/size/weight


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Ducman said:


> Its much easier just to believe the bigger car is safer


Per the NHTSA, big vehicles ARE indeed safer.
Their ratings are segregated between different vehicle sizes/styles. 
A compact car with a high safety rating is not objectively as safe as a large vehicle with the same rating, and that caveat is clearly spelled out by them.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

And thus the arms race, soccer mom wants a huge vehicle to keep the kids safe and vehicles just get bigger and bigger.


----------



## Sidewalk (May 18, 2015)

Well, I don't have a family, and don't much care for anyone elses. So I am comfortable behind the wheel of my 10,000 pound ex ambulance.

Insurance said my last car had a value of about $4000. That's what I got after I was rear ended in it by a car going 65 MPH who never touched his brakes. I walked away. So I feel plenty safe behind the wheel of a $4000 car (For Fiesta). But I replaced it with a GSXR 1000. More HP, less weight.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

chazpat said:


> And thus the arms race, soccer mom wants a huge vehicle to keep the kids safe and vehicles just get bigger and bigger.


and people dumber an dumber


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

I'll add to the list

XT anything
350 hubs 
Thomson
Stans wheels
WTB saddles
Fox forks
XX1


All of these parts/saddles last forever, have very good weights, and I've ridden some of them for more than a decade. 

I have one set of XT brakes/wtb saddle that are 12 years old. I finally wore out the XT crank after a decade. It was my only bike for 8 of those years. Tens of thousands of miles in harsh conditions. 

I've also had excellent luck out of XX1/thomson. It was 7 years old when I sold it and still worked like new.

These are the definition of buy once, buy right.


----------



## Kyle2834 (May 4, 2007)

Rod said:


> I'll add to the list
> 
> XT anything
> 350 hubs
> ...


I definitely like how WTB offers a lot of mtb-oriented (rounded back, abrasion protection on sides) saddle shapes at different widths.


----------



## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

Pipeliner said:


> In a collision between my 2001 3/4 ton Suburban and your brand new Honda Pilot, I would rather be aboard my Suburban (that has airbags BTW).


 some silly arrogance right there. even a 2001 Honda Pilot has higher safety raring than a 2001 Suburban. let alone a brand new one. Bigger does not directly correlate with safer..


----------



## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Rod said:


> I have one set of XT brakes/wtb saddle that are 12 years old. I finally wore out the XT crank after a decade. It was my only bike for 8 of those years. Tens of thousands of miles in harsh conditions


I don't think the new XT brakes are anywhere near as reliable as the older generations, but I still like them.


----------



## 4vdean (Nov 6, 2014)

Trickstuff brakes
Syntace titan pedals
Eewing crankset
AXS all of it
Efficient velo, work stand
CC110 headsets
Avalanche fork cartridge damper


----------



## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> some silly arrogance right there. even a 2001 Honda Pilot has higher safety raring than a 2001 Suburban. let alone a brand new one. Bigger does not directly correlate with safer..











Are Small Cars Safe? | Edmunds


When you're looking for fuel efficiency, you're probably looking at small cars. But are they as safe as bigger cars?



www.edmunds.com


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Whoever said "trainer" is spot on. At the beginning of February, I finally caved in and bought a Kick'r. With a few extra goodies, it was almost $1500 (I hesitated for nearly two years b/c of the financial hit).

Since I got it set up, I've ridden 21days (of 24) and >600miles. I usually don't go out once it gets below 40, so most winters I'm lucky to get out more than 2x/month...then I start all over in April. It's fantastic to wake up at 5am or after work at 8pm, hop on, ride for and hour or 1.5hr in the dark and cold...of my basement. 

I'm actually looking forward to rides this spring; instead of a month of getting fitness back and struggling at group rides. 

Best expensive thing I ever bought.


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

CrozCountry said:


> I don't think the new XT brakes are anywhere near as reliable as the older generations, but I still like them.


I have a set of 8000s and so far they've been great. I've heard and seen a few complaints about the newer generation as well.

I would still pick these over SRAM. My wife had a set of 4 pistons that wouldn't work whenever the temperatures reached 70 or 80 degrees. Something would swell and cause the brakes to stick. It's a widely known issue. I need to take these apart, sand whatever is sticking, and rebuild them.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

.WestCoastHucker. said:


> some silly arrogance right there. even a 2001 Honda Pilot has higher safety raring than a 2001 Suburban. let alone a brand new one. Bigger does not directly correlate with safer..


Yes it does, as I already explained.
Again, it's clearly stated by the NHTSA, who are the ones that do the ratings, and backed up the IIHS in RLee's link, not to mention good ol' common sense.

Lets not let vehicle virtue signaling (and the silly arrogance that accompanies it) take precedence over facts, mmmkay?


*"Bigger Cars Are Safer Than Smaller Ones*
New small cars are safer than they've ever been, but new larger, heavier vehicles are still safer than small ones. It's a matter of physics: Bigger and heavier is safer than smaller and lighter. Large vehicles weigh more and have longer hoods and bigger crush zones, which gives them an advantage in frontal crashes.

In its studies, the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has found that a heavier vehicle will typically push a lighter one backward during the impact. As a result, there is less force on the occupants of the heavier vehicle and more on those in the lighter vehicle, according to IIHS. The organization's fatality data bears this out. The lowest 2015 death rate by vehicle type is for very large SUVs: 13 deaths per million registered vehicles. The highest is for mini cars: 64 deaths per million registered vehicles."


----------



## Rod (Oct 17, 2007)

Kyle2834 said:


> I definitely like how WTB offers a lot of mtb-oriented (rounded back, abrasion protection on sides) saddle shapes at different widths.


Agreed. I have a silverado that's very beaten up that's over a decade old. It's still my favorite saddle and it's heavily used. I've completed a 100 mile race on it, many 50s, etc. It had simply held up. I've bought two more since owning this one for my other bikes. I love some of their other saddles too. Even passed them over to friends after thousands of miles of use.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

I just bought the GX AXS upgrade and love it so far.


----------



## PS mtb (10 mo ago)

dysfunction said:


> Barr chisels. That‘s my story and I’m sticking with it.
> Barr chisels, slicks, adz, and power gouges are simply the best, been using them for 28 years.
> 
> btw, I’ve seen small cars in high speed accidents that I would not want to be in , in a body on frame vehicle. By high speed, I mean 200khm+


----------



## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^^ Uh?


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Yes it does, as I already explained.
> Again, it's clearly stated by the NHTSA, who are the ones that do the ratings, and backed up the IIHS in RLee's link, not to mention good ol' common sense.
> 
> Lets not let vehicle virtue signaling (and the silly arrogance that accompanies it) take precedence over facts, mmmkay?
> ...


But aren't they showing the exact opposite for pickups? Maybe the bigger the pickup, the worse the driver?


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

chazpat said:


> But aren't they showing the exact opposite for pickups? Maybe the bigger the pickup, the worse the driver?


Dunno, got any sort of link?
I think you might be right about 2 wheel drive trucks for some reason though.


----------



## Lenny7 (Sep 1, 2008)

I wonder if they are talking about MTB upgrades on truck forums...


----------



## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

My children are expensive and worth it I'd like to think...


----------



## DH_WILL (Mar 27, 2013)

SingleSpeedSteven said:


> Onyx hubs.


ONYX HUBS WITHOUT A DOUBT


----------



## delquattro (Mar 19, 2005)

milehi said:


> Gravity Dropper posts. 15 years and over 10000 miles and I haven't touched it.


Almost the same here, but my post broke in half last year. Rebuilt and good as new.


----------



## delquattro (Mar 19, 2005)

Crankout said:


> My children are expensive and worth it I'd like to think...


The secondary market is brutal, though.


----------



## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

I9 hubs, XTr cassette, Shimano clipless Saint pedal, dropper post

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


----------



## SVO (May 25, 2005)

Rationalizing a big and tall vehicle with safety is amusing. Ever heard of single vehicle roll-overs? Also, I guess nobody cares much about killing others in the other vehicle. AMERICA!


----------



## Prognosticator (Feb 15, 2021)

I drive a Honda Accord, curb weight around 3,200 lbs with a 250 HP engine, six-speed manual, and tune. My wife drives a Ford Expedition, curb weight 5,800 lbs with 365 HP.

Of course, I sometimes drive her car.

I feel much more vulnerable in her car with its unresponsive steering, high center of gravity and ponderous acceleration. My Accord makes me feel in control.


----------



## Hector15215 (11 mo ago)

large and small torque wrench


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

SVO said:


> Rationalizing a big and tall vehicle with safety is amusing.


More or less amusing than some random schlub thinking he's got better data than the IIHS and NHTSA?

🤪


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Prognosticator said:


> unresponsive steering, high center of gravity and ponderous acceleration.


Hey, stay on subject here!
We're talking about cars, not 29ers!


----------



## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

Fatality Facts 2020: Passenger vehicle occupants


A summary of fatality statistics about passenger vehicle occupants compiled by IIHS from 2020 Fatality Analysis Reporting System (FARS) data.




www.iihs.org





Lots of stats here, interesting to see the historical increase in SUV/truck safety. Also note the higher % of single-vehicle truck deaths...


----------



## Battery (May 7, 2016)

Training sessions with a coach.

A bad ass bike can't perform if the rider has no clue.


----------



## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

phantoj said:


> Lots of stats here, interesting to see the historical increase in SUV/truck safety. Also note the higher % of single-vehicle truck deaths...


"The majority (75 percent) of passenger vehicle occupants killed in 2019 were drivers; 71 percent of these drivers were males."

That's it, I'm making the wife drive everywhere from now on.


----------



## Dogbrain (Mar 4, 2008)

Battery said:


> Training sessions with a coach.
> 
> A bad ass bike can't perform if the rider has no clue.


^^^This. I have found that focused instruction is always worth it. Obvious caveat that it needs to be with a competent instructor. 

As far as parts go, I have personally found all the blingy boutique parts to be worth the money. I've got a White Industries freewheel that's 16 years old and working just fine. And it's on a daily commuter that gets used all winter long here in the rainy PNW. I try to clean the drive train once a winter, but the thing is almost always caked in road grit. I also have a Phil Wood square taper BB with White Industries cranks on my 29er hardtail and they are going strong after many winter miles. Same with my Hope X2 brakes. My new bike came with Shimano XT everything, but if the Brakes and BB, etc start to go I will replacing them with the brands listed above. Purchasing these kinds of parts might actually be cheaper in the long run. I mean Hope brakes are more expensive than XT's, but I have had them for 11 years and they work great.

Two years ago I put a SON dynamo hub on my commuter with Busch + Muller lights. It was about $700 installed, including the custom wheel build at the local shop, which would buy a lot of rechargeable lights. But I never have to hassle with keeping lights charged for my winter commute, or staying out too long and not having them with me. They're just always there and bright AF. So not worth it in the sense that it actually saves me money, but worth it for my overall experience.


----------



## phorest (Jul 29, 2009)

norcalbike said:


> SLX and Deore are also fine. All the same **** with slightly different weights


fwiw, Deore brakes just got the top spot out of ten current brake sets in UK mag MBR [inc. Hayes, Hope, Magura, SRAM, TRP.


----------



## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

slapheadmofo said:


> Dunno, got any sort of link?
> I think you might be right about 2 wheel drive trucks for some reason though.


The chart in the Edmunds link









Are Small Cars Safe? | Edmunds


When you're looking for fuel efficiency, you're probably looking at small cars. But are they as safe as bigger cars?



www.edmunds.com


----------



## 410sprint (Oct 19, 2012)

Yoshimura pedals.


----------



## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> "The majority (75 percent) of passenger vehicle occupants killed in 2019 were drivers; 71 percent of these drivers were males."
> 
> That's it, I'm making the wife drive everywhere from now on.


You are making a good point... this seems like good quality data, but the data is confounded because the blend of drivers is different for different kinds of cars.

It's known that minivans are the safest (least deaths-per-mile) of all the vehicle types, but is this because they are exceptionally safe designs (doubt it), or because they are often driven by parents (older drivers are safer).? Or maybe they are so boring that they are rarely driven stupidly.









Study Shows How Death Rates for Drivers Vary by Car Size


New IIHS study reveals the car models with the lowest and highest driver fatalities, and compares the death rates for drivers of different sized vehicles, from small cars to large SUVs. Consumer Reports has the details.



www.consumerreports.org


----------



## 2021Mach6 (Jan 19, 2021)

chazpat said:


> But aren't they showing the exact opposite for pickups? Maybe the bigger the pickup, the worse the driver?


As the owner of two 2500s, this statement is 100% accurate!! I like to think I'm a good driver, but my record says otherwise. Fortunately I'm safe around other drivers, it's just when I'm solo or off-road I drive like a complete idiot ... Same thing with bikes come to think of it!!!


----------



## FredCoMTB (Jul 25, 2020)

Ducman said:


> I wouldn't feel safe putting my family in a car worth less than my bike, not even all the bikes I have ever owned.
> Cars are definitely worth the cost for the advanced safety feature they have now.


I think your overall point got drowned in the discussion. All the new safety systems are way better and cheaper than they've ever been. They're also available on virtually every make and model now. Automatic emergency braking alone will make any vehicle safer for drivers, passengers, and everyone else around them. 

Regardless of whether it's a 7k lb truck or a 3k lb compact, if you get it with those safety systems you're better off, and probably not by a little bit. People say they don't like the buzzing/beeping or giving up control... but even the best drivers can get distracted or make a single mistake. 

I had someone almost merge into me once such distracted me. Traffic stopped in front of me and I'd have hit the car in front of me without AEB.

Even if it doesn't prevent an accident it can still make it less severe. Most commercial vehicles (meaning heavy commercial trucks) also have at least some form of automatic emergency braking, and many have more features than that. 

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk


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## itsky (Jul 26, 2011)

SVO said:


> Rationalizing a big and tall vehicle with safety is amusing. Ever heard of single vehicle roll-overs? Also, I guess nobody cares much about killing others in the other vehicle. AMERICA!


Dumb post, you are safer in a bigger vehicle. Physics.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

my time is expensive, and its not worth spent reading what this thread has turned into.....


back on topic people


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cmg said:


> my time is expensive, and its not worth spent reading what this thread has turned into.....
> 
> 
> back on topic people


Please. 
You were fine when you it was you saying those of us who already knew big vehicles are generally safer were dumb.
Now the shoe's on the other foot, it's imperative we hurry back on topic. 
LOL


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## nauc (Sep 9, 2009)

these are all 11 years old = zero problems so far 

Shimano Deore hubs
Shimano SLX shifters/derail
RS Recon fork 
WTB SpeedDisc rims
Shimano Deore cranks
Specialized Hendge seat (tit rails) 
RaceFace Ride post, stem and bars

5 years old = zero problems so far

DMR V6 pedals 
Tektro Auriga brakes


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

slapheadmofo said:


> Please.
> You were fine when you it was you saying those of us who already knew big vehicles are generally safer were dumb.
> Now the shoe's on the other foot, it's imperative we hurry back on topic.
> LOL


whatever.......


DT Swiss Wheelsets, definately worth the cost IMO

BR2250 Fatbike set
EX511 Rims laced to 240S Hubs with competition spokes
both sets XD Drive (although l also received the Shimano bodies) and as straight as the day l got them


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## bingemtbr (Apr 1, 2004)

wives and girlfriends--especially if you have them both at the same time.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

cmg said:


> whatever.......


Precisely.


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## phantoj (Jul 7, 2009)

SVO said:


> Rationalizing a big and tall vehicle with safety is amusing. Ever heard of single vehicle roll-overs? Also, I guess nobody cares much about killing others in the other vehicle. AMERICA!


I think in ye olden days, there were a lot more single vehicle truck (and especially SUV) roll-overs. But not so much now. You can see this in the IIHS data I linked to.

I'm guessing it's partly because most modern SUVs are very carlike, just elevated wagons really. And partly because stability control on modern trucks and SUVs has reduced rollovers. And maybe improved safety tech and wider seat belt usage is making rollovers more survivable.


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

.......


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## .WestCoastHucker. (Jan 14, 2004)

....


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

bingemtbr said:


> wives and girlfriends--especially if you have them both at the same time.


Can you donate your gf? 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## williamson36 (Mar 24, 2006)

DH_WILL said:


> ONYX HUBS WITHOUT A DOUBT


I have a lot of things that I like - but my Only hubs are the very best! Hands-down my best splurge


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

williamson36 said:


> I have a lot of things that I like - but my Only hubs are the very best! Hands-down my best splurge


Well yeah...if you only have one set, they'd be pretty important!


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

LMN said:


> XTR chain rings. I have one that is pushing 15000km. It still take a new chain.


This is why:










The chainring is corroded beyond belief, but it reveals the structure of the metal; almost all of Shimano's chainrings are cold-forged (stamped)...which results in a stronger piece of metal. 

I too, have found that the consumable items at the top-end are generally longer-lasting than lower tier equipment.


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## Picard (Apr 5, 2005)

Carbon bike frame. 

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


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## froze (Feb 5, 2011)

You don't need $70 some odd dollar hex L set with ball end for a bicycle, you never will put anywhere near the force on those keys as you might with a car. You can get a 13 hex set SAE with 9 hex set for metric for only $20 from Eklind, I have this set, even use it on cars with no problems. I got mine from Menards, but Home Depot has them to. This is another lever example where something high end doesn't buy you anything more other than some color.

There are a lot of examples like that, but with bicycles modern high-end components do not last as long as mid-level components. The high-end stuff is for racing, they make that stuff light and in the process the stuff won't last as long for the everyday rider. Some things you might do better going high end, but for the most part you won't. Grant from Rivendell once said that the Atlantis bike he sells are 98% of what his much more expensive Rivendell brand bike was! I think he summed it up quite well, you might only gain a few percentage points going from mid to high-end, is a few percentage points worth a great deal more money? Only you can decide that for yourselves, as far as I go personally it doesn't work out for me.


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## PS mtb (10 mo ago)

Cleared2land said:


> ^^^^ Uh?


It's a woodworking/timberframing thing...


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## Ramjm_2000 (Jan 29, 2005)

1. Chris King Hubs 
2. eeWing Cranks
3. Sram AXS


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

Big vehicles suck. They are less efficient and less fun to drive. Weight is the enemy of braking, handling, gas mileage and acceleration. As one of the greatest automotive engineers ever said, "Simplify, then add lightness".


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

..........


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

93EXCivic said:


> Big vehicles suck. They are less efficient and less fun to drive. Weight is the enemy of braking, handling, gas mileage and acceleration. As one of the greatest automotive engineers ever said, "Simplify, then add lightness".


Put an ATV and a couple dirt bikes in your Civic and get back to me.

Not everyone drives around pretending they're at the racetrack all the time.
Nor should they be. 

Speaking of generally useless and inefficient, let's talk about people who mod their vehicles for more power. 
Like what, it's not possible for them to get to highway speeds stock?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

slapheadmofo said:


> Speaking of generally useless and inefficient, let's talk about people who mod their vehicles for more power.
> Like what, it's not possible for them to get to highway speeds stock?


It depends on what you mean by "highway speeds". Around here, if you can find an open stretch of interstate, a _lot_ of drivers are going 80 to 100 mph and "_need_" a bunch more power. There's no speed enforcement in this state anymore.


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

slapheadmofo said:


> Put an ATV and a couple dirt bikes in your Civic and get back to me.
> 
> Not everyone drives around pretending they're at the racetrack all the time.
> Nor should they be.
> ...


But I don't carry an ATV or dirt bike so why would I care? 

I use my Civic for autocrossing so of course it is modified.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

93EXCivic said:


> But I don't carry an ATV or dirt bike so why would I care?
> 
> I use my Civic for autocrossing so of course it is modified.


Well, then I guess by your logic, since I do haul stuff around and don't autocross, it's your vehicle that sucks.
Or does that only go one way?

Do you daily drive it or only drive it at the track?

If you do DD it, how is that different than people DDing pick up trucks they only load up occasionally?


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## 93EXCivic (Mar 12, 2018)

slapheadmofo said:


> Well, then I guess by your logic, since I do haul stuff around and don't autocross, it's your vehicle that sucks.
> Or does that only go one way?
> 
> Do you daily drive it or only drive it at the track?
> ...


Track and fun weekend drives mostly. Daily drive a Honda Element and it does indeed suck for all my listed reasons


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

93EXCivic said:


> Track and fun weekend drives mostly. Daily drive a Honda Element and it does indeed suck for all my listed reasons


Well, it IS a minivan.


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## Kona0197 (Oct 19, 2004)

Come on guys. This isn't a site about cars. Take it to the off-camber forum.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Kona0197 said:


> Come on guys. This isn't a site about cars. Take it to the off-camber forum.


Yeah guys, quit dipping your toe-in this car talk


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Whistler Bike Park. It's not cheap, but very much worth it.


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## Nat (Dec 30, 2003)

Curveball said:


> Whistler Bike Park. It's not cheap, but very much worth it.


Hear, hear!!!


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I didn’t see any mention of it, but my wife has been pretty expensive, but she’s worth it 👍

She didn’t even blink an eye when I sold my Tilt and bought a Lithium, yup she’s a keeper … great bike 🤣


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Nurse Ben said:


> I didn’t see any mention of it, but my wife has been pretty expensive, but she’s worth it 👍
> 
> She didn’t even blink an eye when I sold my Tilt and bought a Lithium, yup she’s a keeper … great bike 🤣


Watch out Ben, somebody might agree with you. 
=sParty


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