# Is it time to scale back or stop MTB?



## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I’m pretty fit and don’t mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I’ve been around and have some great memories.

To my question, I’ve certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn’t knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I’m writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.

So I can rationalize why each crash happened, but they happen so fast you can’t be sure. But this type of injuries never happened before. So I think about my age and how to forward. Just stop a thing I love? Just ride local trails I am familiar with. Don’t travel far from home to ride? Don’t race and try to go fast? I am a 7 hour drive away from home right now and family/friends will have to come down to drive me home. Not fair to them.
Any thoughts appreciated. I’ve been on this forum a long time under different users names.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

bones can't take the same hits as before.


just don't hit dem bones yer good. 

road or gravel biking can be the future


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

sounds to me like it's worthwhile to do some serious risk assessments.

sounds to me like dialing back intensity would be a good start. really examining when it's okay to ride solo and when it isn't.

probably worthwhile to start trying to figure out the ultimate cause of these crashes. are they mental lapses? reaction time not what it used to be? skills declining? each of those might point to different things you could do to address things.

I had to do a similar examination at 30, after a bout with leukemia. I mean I could decide to not let it affect anything, but the truth of the matter is that the consequences of crashing, even now after more than a decade in remission, are higher than they were pre-cancer. my answer will probably be different from yours, as each risk assessment will be different.


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## Troll on a Bike (Feb 12, 2021)

Ride slower and ride easier trails. Maybe use a full-face helmet from now on.


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## CrzyMD (Feb 12, 2009)

Pushing 70 myself, I totally understand. But it is the fact you are riding that lets you keep going. Buy an e-bike. At our age anything that still keeps you in the game, is fair. I couldn't do the climbs or go as far as I used to because of age. Now with the e-bike, I can go as far as the battery will allow, and climb anything! You do it while keeping your fitness up, and having more fun than you ever had. 
Wearing a full faced helmet (like a Fox Frame, TLD Stage, or IXS Trigger as they are so light and well ventilated), is a no brainer. I suspect that in 5 years, mountain bikers will all be wearing full face helmets. There is now, no reason not too. Keep on peddling buddy, I am right there behind you! Doc


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## Cdal1770 (Mar 20, 2019)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


You're an inspiration! I wish I could be at your level at fitness - and I'm almost 45. 
Two months of healing isn't bad. Honestly, I would have expected twice that length of time. Things happen. Don't do gap jumps and don't attempt risky techy features. Don't go so fast you might break your neck, but do go. You'll find your safe spot soon enough.

Cheers, stud!


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

CrzyMD said:


> Pushing 70 myself, I totally understand. But it is the fact you are riding that lets you keep going. Buy an e-bike. At our age anything that still keeps you in the game, is fair. I couldn't do the climbs or go as far as I used to because of age. Now with the e-bike, I can go as far as the battery will allow, and climb anything! You do it while keeping your fitness up, and having more fun than you ever had.
> Wearing a full faced helmet (like a Fox Frame, TLD Stage, or IXS Trigger as they are so light and well ventilated), is a no brainer. I suspect that in 5 years, mountain bikers will all be wearing full face helmets. There is now, no reason not too. Keep on peddling buddy, I am right there behind you! Doc


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## mtbfoo (Aug 26, 2019)

I would scale back.
Leave single tracks and gnar behind, perhaps get a more pure XC or flatbar gravel or w/e bike to keep some of the accelerations and the related thrill @ lower speeds & ride fire-roads and milder trails to remain in contact with nature & your bike which I think can still be a healthy excersise.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

Cdal1770 said:


> You're an inspiration! I wish I could be at your level at fitness - and I'm almost 45.
> Two months of healing isn't bad. Honestly, I would have expected twice that length of time. Things happen. Don't do gap jumps and don't attempt risky techy features. Don't go so fast you might break your neck, but do go. You'll find your safe spot soon enough.
> 
> Cheers, stud!


Thanks all! I got some time to figure out. Yes, I wish I had a full face helmet on porcupine rim crash. On this one, looking at the large dent in my POC tectal I feel blessed to have hit on my side and wearing this helmet with spin tech in it. No concussion or brain injury. I owe those guys a lot.


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## JKA (Jul 26, 2006)

Yeah, you might want to dial it back a little bit. I'm mid 60s and used to do a lot of cross country dirt bike racing. I thought nothing of going 90-100 mph across the desert. Had a number of high speed get offs and usually wasn't too badly damaged. Now I break easier and heal slower not to mention the reflexes aren't quite what they used to be. I still ride my dirt bike and mtb a lot, but I'm not quite as daring. Then again, I like Hunter Thompson's quote:

"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming, "Wow what a ride!"


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## Bajadog (Jul 31, 2016)

Wow, so sorry about your injuries. I’m 69 and I ask myself the same questions all the time. I have also had some crashes in my 60’s. Broken ribs, collapsed lung, broken clavicle, two broken wrists (one now has a four corner fusion). I really don’t want to have another bad crash. My bones just aren’t as strong as they used to be, and the recovery time can be long. I like to ride hard and fast, but for me, I have tried to dial back the intensity on the descents. No racing, nothing too sketchy, no Strava KOM’s and keep my speed at about 80% or so going down. I also bought a Garmin inReach gps tracker so that I can call for help when I’m out of cell range. It’s been about two years since had had a crash. Like you I would really hate to give up the sport. I hope you have a fast recovery.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## rob214 (Apr 18, 2019)

first, way to go still out there riding, now don't forget to go to the gym and do some strength training, you will be stronger to take the occasional spill. I don't recommend anyone to ride above their skill level, crashing sucks and the older we get the longer it takes to heal. just ride to have fun and keep your priorities in check. but don't stop riding your life depends on staying active.


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## 7ANDUN (Mar 6, 2020)

I'll give you my two cents: Dial back a little, just enough to play it safe. I'm 57, started mountain biking two years ago because I couldn't lift like I used to, joints just can't take it, so I had to find something new. Started riding a bike again than rode in the woods a bit, than a little singletrack and bam I found a new passion. Since I suck at mountain biking I can only improve. Last year after a lifetime of healthy living, no family history and no elevated cholesterol or BP, absolutely no predisposing conditions; I had a heart attack, a widowmaker (12% survival rate). I was back on a bike four weeks post-op triple bypass surgery and built two bridges and 700' of new singletrack in our woods before returning to work at 8 weeks post op. I was lifting at three months. If you can't do what you love, you're not living. Don't give up your passion. My mountain biking IMPROVED last year despite the setback! You need to find something you can improve on, maybe put yourself out there as a mentor for other MTBers. Helping them improve will feel like a big accomplishment (because it is) and you will improve in your couching/teaching. Just a thought. Too bad you're not in southern NH. I know a 57 year old heart attack survivor who could use some coaching! Anyway good luck, speedy recovery.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

I've managed to have all my accidents in the last 5 years, lol... so here I sit at 46 y/o, 2 weeks post-op shoulder surgery. Luckily, this one was easy, just a broken bone (glenoid, displaced fracture).

In any case I'm not sure that "dialing it back" is going to help. All of my injuries have been from simple lapses in judgement, not when I'm pushing my abilities. I think that an alert mind and total concentration is the answer, and even then you're going to misjudge things and crash, these crashed may result in injury. I don't believe there is any way to really "manage the risk" beyond maybe a short meditation to concentrate the mind, as well as lack of fear and not interpreting your previous injuries as traumas. Anxiety from trauma is possibly the largest factor, as it can effect concentration and have you doubting yourself, which leads to more lapses of judgement and more injuries. 

tl/dr... concentration and successfully dealing with fear and trauma is the best way to prevent crashes in the future.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

davec113 said:


> I've managed to have all my accidents in the last 5 years, lol... so here I sit at 46 y/o, 2 weeks post-op shoulder surgery. Luckily, this one was easy, just a broken bone (glenoid, displaced fracture).
> 
> In any case I'm not sure that "dialing it back" is going to help. All of my injuries have been from simple lapses in judgement, not when I'm pushing my abilities. I think that an alert mind and total concentration is the answer, and even then you're going to misjudge things and crash, these crashed may result in injury. I don't believe there is any way to really "manage the risk" beyond maybe a short meditation to concentrate the mind, as well as lack of fear and not interpreting your previous injuries as traumas. Anxiety from trauma is possibly the largest factor, as it can effect concentration and have you doubting yourself, which leads to more lapses of judgement and more injuries.
> 
> tl/dr... concentration and successfully dealing with fear and trauma is the best way to prevent crashes in the future.


Yes totally agree concentration and letting go of fear must occur. I really don't want to drop a passion like this. Besides all that, I think mtb keeps an old mind sharp. But like another poster said, I don't think I want to go through this again. Will change some things up for sure. These comments help.


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## nOOky (May 13, 2008)

Everything is dangerous and you assume some risk. I've ridden crotch rockets for years and had near fatal misses, yet I've been hurt worse mountain biking. It's usually a matter of time, and with age comes a reduction in physical dexterity and reaction time etc.

I'm only 52 but I have slowed down. I run ultramarathons, but I think the risk of slipping over a cliff a lot less likely than smacking a tree at 30 mph. Even worse is not exercising and eating like crap, who wants to go out that way?

Slowing down doesn't have to mean slowing down, you can still push your cardio system, just remove some of the risk by not doing things that can kill you lol.


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## sharpendjay (Sep 8, 2020)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


Dude you are travelling 7 hours to go hit trails? That is pretty hardcore. Being 100% honest with oneself is probably the best exercise ever. I'd say dial it back, stay close to home unless you can come to accept you aren't 25 anymore. My dad is 88 and still riding an old trek I gave him back in the 90's. He sure as heck isn't looking for anything techy though.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

nOOky said:


> Everything is dangerous and you assume some risk. I've ridden crotch rockets for years and had near fatal misses, yet I've been hurt worse mountain biking. It's usually a matter of time, and with age comes a reduction in physical dexterity and reaction time etc.
> 
> I'm only 52 but I have slowed down. I run ultramarathons, but I think the risk of slipping over a cliff a lot less likely than smacking a tree at 30 mph. Even worse is not exercising and eating like crap, who wants to go out that way?
> 
> Slowing down doesn't have to mean slowing down, you can still push your cardio system, just remove some of the risk by not doing things that can kill you lol.


Very good, that's what I'm thinking right now.


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## planetx88 (Mar 24, 2012)

This is a great post and really reminded me of a lot of the risk assessment that gets talked about in Avy I and II classes. In avy terrain, risk factors #1 and #2 are your brain, and the people you are with, not the snow. We all tell ourselves stories about what we can do, and when we are in danger, whether you're 24 or 70. Sometimes those stories give you confidence and allow you to make calculated risks, other times those stories pressure us to push it too far. 

I guess my point is this; in the original post you posed some hypotheticals ..."Just ride local trails I am familiar with? Don’t travel far from home to ride? Don’t race and try to go fast?" I get where you are going here, but with respect, I think these are maybe the wrong questions. I cant tell you how many times Ive done dangerous stuff right near home on familiar trails in the wet, just because I know I can do it in the dry, eat Sh*t, and then feel frustrated I cant do it. This is why I actually really appreciate the way Remy Metallier talks about risk and risk management. Not because I want to ride the stuff he does, no goddamned way, but because I really think he is dialled in way more than most people at his level in risk management. If you think about it from the perspective of risk management it becomes more about "How tired am I? Am I feeling confident riding this feature? Is anything distracting me? does anyone know where I am if I get hurt?" I think as we get older the calculus changes, but in many respects the questions don't.

my $.02. Thanks for sharing what you have going on, too, very important convo that is largely kept as an internal one, or just ignored.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Something not mentioned by anyone yet is the age-related decrease in proprioception. As we age, our brain and body don't communicate as effectively as they did when we were younger, so it's much harder to maintain your position in space, or at least more difficult to react to your body's changes in space.

Not to say you are too old anymore to do this sort of thing (I've known plenty of late 60 year olds that can ride circles around me) it's just something every one of us is looking at in our futures, and sooner for some and later for others, there will come a point when we have to have that conversation with ourselves. At some point we will all be relying on walkers or wheelchairs, and at some point before that, we need to realize our children are going to want to take our car keys from us. Not only for our own good, but for the good of everyone on the road around us.

Like the age-related loss of proprioceptive acuity, there is also an age-related loss of reaction time. I remember once in a very large auditorium at church when the preacher's microphone malfunctioned and gave a horrible screech of feedback across the PA. I was sitting in the very back of the crowd, and plugged my ears as soon as I could, but during the time it took to react to the noise, process what to do, tell my muscles to move my hands to my ears, and then actually do it, I also had the thought that older people can't react as quickly as younger people. The front half of the auditorium was made up of the oldest members of our church, and I had enough time to make this realization and then focus on those people up front. I saw them still sitting there listening intently having not realized the noise had even occurred. All of the sudden, in one wave of unison, every old person in the auditorium put their hands to their ears.

I was in my 30s then, and they were probably in their 70s. Reaction time definitely slows down as we get older. There are a lot of important decisions to make in split second increments while blasting through the forest on a mountain bike. Couple that with proprioceptive loss over time... It's not a great recipe.

I've noticed in my mid-forties I'm falling down on the bike way more then I did in my twenties. I like to chalk it up to riding closer to the edge of my ability, but the truth of it is I'm getting older and I'm not as... frosty... or... my head isn't on the same swivel anymore, you know what I mean?

It's sad to hear you've suffered the injuries you have. I've had a couple of dingers in the woods in the last year myself, but nothing like what you're going through now. I think what is worse though is the internal dialogue you're having with yourself that I had a touch of on my last two accidents: At what point do I need to pull back from this to preserve my safety?

I love mountain biking so much. I am so grateful I have the ability to enjoy it. I plan to do it in whatever way I can until I absolutely can't. I *do not* want to cross that line in the sand when I realize I have to limit that enjoyment in the interest of self-preservation, but there will come a day when I have to.

Others have mentioned road biking and gravel riding as alternatives, but if you're going to be riding at such a level of intensity because, let's all face it... that's what's really fun in the pursuit, I don't think it really matters where you'll be. A wreck on the road can be as bad as a wreck in the woods. Any rider is probably going to have more wrecks in the woods than on the road, but it's not like road riding is without its own inherent risks. You won't get hit by a car in the woods, but you could on the road.

Keep up the mountain biking for the zen it brings. You might just need to slow down a bit so the accidents aren't so likely to happen or as bad when they do.

Get better.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Something not mentioned by anyone yet is the age-related decrease in proprioception. As we age, our brain and body don't communicate as effectively as they did when we were younger, so it's much harder to maintain your position in space, or at least more difficult to react to your body's changes in space.
> 
> Not to say you are too old anymore to do this sort of thing (I've known plenty of late 60 year olds that can ride circles around me) it's just something every one of us is looking at in our futures, and sooner for some and later for others, there will come a point when we have to have that conversation with ourselves. At some point we will all be relying on walkers or wheelchairs, and at some point before that, we need to realize our children are going to want to take our car keys from us. Not only for our own good, but for the good of everyone on the road around us.
> 
> ...


I totally agree wrt where you are. A friend who has this mindset got a road/gravel kind of bike and proceeded to crash harder than he ever did on a mt bike. It's more about split-second processing of info and resulting judgements, at least for me. A clear mind is the best tool to obtain correct judgements. In essence, riding a mt bike, skiing, etc. is all about mentally predicting exactly what's going to happen right before it does. If you ride across a root and are wrong about how the bike will react, it may lead to a crash! This is exactly how I broke my glenoid. I was pretty sure the bike would go right over that root in the middle of that corner... NOPE! It really had little to do with how fast I was riding or the level of difficulty of the trail, "dialing it back" may not have helped at all. OTOH, slowing down to ~80% or so can give additional time to process, so while "dialing it back" isn't the full answer as it can lead to not wanting to ride stuff within one's ability level just to stay safe, or riding in a fearful manner, it's true limiting one's speed can give a bit more margin for error.

You may be right about slower responses as we age, but I am not convinced this is universal, or if it is, that mt biking and maintaining a lifestyle of continuous improvement and learning can't at least partially compensate for it. It may be a pipe dream to try, but I hope to limit age related erosion of my body and mind as much as I can!


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I crashed a year and a half ago at 56 during a gravel race, broke 4 ribs, a clavicle and a scapula. My wife won't let me race anymore. 

But even prior to that, I had to be a bit cautious as I'm on blood thinners and not supposed to participate in "contact" sports. I've always pushed it a little, knowing that someday I would have a big crash, though always thought it would be on the trail rather than on gravel. Since my crash, I've dialed it back a bit more. I'd rather continue to ride further from the edge than ride close to the edge and end my mtb riding forever.

EDIT: just saw David's post above mine. I'm not his friend, not that we dislike each other, we've just never met! I'm not sure why I crashed, I suspect it was fatigue and a loss of focus for a split second as I was descending around a curve.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

I have beeen mtbing since age of 13 in 1996. Have been whitewater kayaking since 2006. Seems mtb injuries are more common, even more severe but less likely to result in death. I say this having lost close friends. Its always a balance of risk/ consequence vs reward. Be careful, mitigate risks as much as possible and have fun while you can. If that means dialing it back to stay healthy than do it, i dont huck as big as i used to anymore but i still get after it a bit and love it.


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## D. Inoobinati (Aug 28, 2020)

Watching an hour of Friday Fails before every ride usually cures me of going "stoopit fast".


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## JonJones (Feb 12, 2012)

This I think is a very prominent thought for anyone who has been injured or seen it up close. The confusion, the thought process of what actually happened and could it have been avoided. What about protective gear, maintenance of the bike, a lapse in awareness.

There are so many factors. And then, with serious injury I know from bitter experience that even with great surgical care, and physical therapy one tends not to be 100% back to post incident ability and fitness.

Dialling it back sounds like a sensible way forward but in my experience, I've had two surgery level incidents, riding tame trails with just strange circumstances causing the incident. 

Don't take unnecessary risks, but don't neuter your riding either. As has been stated earlier, I feel you need to have some focus on the task at hand. 

I hope you recover fully and get back in the bike, we all love it. The injuries, fear and surgery not so much.


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## JPSeuropa (Jul 12, 2010)

Heal up. Lift weights and stretch. Cross train. Consider the price of failure when mountain biking, but don't quit. At 69, that is my recipe. Of course I still crash on occasion, but the injuries are much less severe. I am done with being laid up for months.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

I'm a good mountain bike rider, but not a great one. While I have ridden since I was a kid (57 now), I didn't really start to understanding how to really ride bikes until about 10 years ago. My mental limitations about falling/injury are present when I am in technical steep terrain.

On the other hand I have skied for my entire life. I skied for many years professionally and I never have any real mental limitations when I am on snow. I have had significant injuries from skiing and yet I understand skiing in ways that are quite different from my understanding of mountain biking. I think that is part of the reason I really enjoy riding bikes-its challenging to me. Especially on modern bikes where we ride so differently. I love it!

I can definitely say that when I was in my 20's and 30's I was significantly faster, stronger, and more agile than I am now. My reaction speeds were much quicker in those decades. One of the things I have noticed in all my years of active pursuits is that everyday is different. Sleep, eating, rest, emotions, etc all have a large effect on my balance, focus, endurance, and ability to find "flow," whether it is on wheels or rails. Thinking every day will be like any "good" day can be a mistake.

Accidents do happen. Pushing is part of the fun. We must recognize where we are in our bodies on any given day and/or place, make appropriate decisions for that day, and be OK with that. Some days we can be heroes but on others we cannot. As I get older, I am fine with that. I guess I am either getting more wise or less of a wise ass as I age.


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## Pedalon2018 (Apr 24, 2018)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


I bought a trike in 2015 so my riding Buddy could have someone to ride with...,as he became unable to safely ride diamond frames. I still ride my Ti and Fatty when not riding with him. For those that don't know, recumbent trikes can be very comfortable and are a ton of fun. We can ride 80 miles on paved trails and get off and do something else unlike my other rides. They come in three wheel and even four, some with fatty tires. Some even motorized their trikes. Mine has a seat rake of only 25 degrees means I am almost laying dow. It is the second most comfortable place to sit/lay down. Mine has Red eTap and is a dream to ride. Many scoff at these rides but they help out so many folks that just cant ride two wheelers any more.


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## Alf-NH (Mar 9, 2018)

If you're anything like me a road or gravel bike ride will NEVER replace an MTB ride. Be honest with yourself and follow your heart. No one on here can give you the answer that you'll ultimately need to discover from within. As a guy about to cross "over the hill" myself, your story was inspirational to me. Happy sends!


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## geofharries (Jun 2, 2006)

I agree with those who have suggested being more mindful is key. That said, I think it's also wise to change your perception of risk as you age.

I've got hurt a lot over the years. Most of these accidents I'll chalk up to not being in the moment.

For me, it's not only about being more mindful but also making better choices about what I should or should not do, recognizing I can still get hurt at any time.

I empathize with @NMBillb*. *When you're lying in a hospital bed or continuing to recover at home for weeks and months on end, it's hard not to conduct a deep dive into what all of this means. I know I've done the same.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

davec113 said:


> I've managed to have all my accidents in the last 5 years, lol... so here I sit at 46 y/o, 2 weeks post-op shoulder surgery. Luckily, this one was easy, just a broken bone (glenoid, displaced fracture).
> 
> In any case I'm not sure that "dialing it back" is going to help. All of my injuries have been from simple lapses in judgement, not when I'm pushing my abilities. I think that an alert mind and total concentration is the answer, and even then you're going to misjudge things and crash, these crashed may result in injury. I don't believe there is any way to really "manage the risk" beyond maybe a short meditation to concentrate the mind, as well as lack of fear and not interpreting your previous injuries as traumas. Anxiety from trauma is possibly the largest factor, as it can effect concentration and have you doubting yourself, which leads to more lapses of judgement and more injuries.
> 
> tl/dr... concentration and successfully dealing with fear and trauma is the best way to prevent crashes in the future.


See, you contradict yourself here. Working on your concentration and working through fear and trauma absolutely _are_ things you can do to manage certain risks. There are LOTS of things you can do to manage risks that don't have to mean going slower or even riding less technical terrain. Wearing a full face helmet (and other protective gear) is managing risk. Riding with a buddy is managing risk. Dialing back doesn't have to mean riding fearfully if you don't let it mean that. Sure, some people do let it mean that, but I agree that being fearful when you're riding isn't helpful, as it inhibits sound decision-making and execution.

Training is probably a good idea. Strength training, as well as skills training. Practicing fundamentals can absolutely help center and ground you. And yes, there are even mental riding skills that it can help to refocus on (practice, think about consciously again, etc). Training absolutely helps you keep focused even when things are "easy" and can help you avoid the dreaded ER visit from something dumb on a green trail.

Shoot, when it comes to mental training, some of the things you can do might even seem completely unrelated to the bike, but can help with reaction times and processing.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

Alf-NH said:


> If you're anything like me a road or gravel bike ride will NEVER replace an MTB ride. Be honest with yourself and follow your heart. No one on here can give you the answer that you'll ultimately need to discover from within. As a guy about to cross "over the hill" myself, your story was inspirational to me. Happy sends!


Thanks. All of these comments are so thoughtful and helpful. I've enjoyed it all, the social part, seeing new trails, racing, following the tech and gear, standing on a hillside at Purgatory watching Ned Overend win the first UCI worlds and racing on the same course day before with my NORBA license. Such a blast.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Training and racing always requires certain lines be crossed. Giving up the notion that you need to charge at everything might bring you back to the safe side of things. Be fast but not aggressive.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

NMBillb said:


> Thanks. All of these comments are so thoughtful and helpful. I've enjoyed it all, the social part, seeing new trails, racing, following the tech and gear, standing on a hillside at Purgatory watching Ned Overend win the first UCI worlds and racing on the same course day before with my NORBA license. Such a blast.


Nothing better than racing on the same course as the pro's back in the NORBA days! Did the same at Mt Snow in the early to mid-90's; Tinker, Tomac, Brown etc.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Legit post from the OC for sure. I'm in my mid-50's, and still feel fairly invincible to some degree but realize the potential long-term implications of a serious or reckless crash. The body doesn't recover as well. My younger friends don't understand and heckle me for taking a rest day or going easy here and there.

I'm now more into gravel and absolutely love it. Not everyone is a fan; yet, it carries similar risks given an accident. Hitting the tarmac is no joke...


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Crankout said:


> Nothing better than racing on the same course as the pro's back in the NORBA days! Did the same at Mt Snow in the early to mid-90's; Tinker, Tomac, Brown etc.


Naked Crit?


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Harold said:


> See, you contradict yourself here. Working on your concentration and working through fear and trauma absolutely _are_ things you can do to manage certain risks. There are LOTS of things you can do to manage risks that don't have to mean going slower or even riding less technical terrain. Wearing a full face helmet (and other protective gear) is managing risk. Riding with a buddy is managing risk. Dialing back doesn't have to mean riding fearfully if you don't let it mean that. Sure, some people do let it mean that, but I agree that being fearful when you're riding isn't helpful, as it inhibits sound decision-making and execution.
> 
> Training is probably a good idea. Strength training, as well as skills training. Practicing fundamentals can absolutely help center and ground you. And yes, there are even mental riding skills that it can help to refocus on (practice, think about consciously again, etc). Training absolutely helps you keep focused even when things are "easy" and can help you avoid the dreaded ER visit from something dumb on a green trail.
> 
> Shoot, when it comes to mental training, some of the things you can do might even seem completely unrelated to the bike, but can help with reaction times and processing.


Not sure I contradicted myself? Seems like you want to define "dialing it back", so it's more a question of semantics. The meaning of "dialing it back": Riding trails and riding at speeds that do not approach the limits of your abilities. The reason for riding in this manner is generally fear, and IMO fear is a major cause of crashing. This is why I'm hesitant to support the idea of "dialing it back".

The issue I have with this is it creates anxiety. Maybe not for everyone, but for me it can, and I've seen it in many of my friends. It leads to the decision to only ride easier trails and fear of technical sections on trails you do ride. While this may seem logical and obviously safer vs riding more difficult trails (that are still within one's ability level) I'm not so sure this is really the case, as least it hasn't been for me and I'd guess a majority of folks. Accidents often happen on easier trails. IMO, anytime you're on 2 wheels you need to be fully alert and present.

I do wear a full-face, a pack with back protection and various pieces of D30 armor. I have a Garmin InReach Mini and usually ride with a friend. I lift and do yoga. This isn't really related to the decision of what and how to ride in order to avoid crashing... IMO it's just common sense as these protective measures don't cost that much in either money, discomfort and the effort is well worth it for lifting and yoga no matter what you're doing.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

davec113 said:


> Not sure I contradicted myself? Seems like you want to define "dialing it back", so it's more a question of semantics. The meaning of "dialing it back": Riding trails and riding at speeds that do not approach the limits of your abilities. The reason for riding in this manner is generally fear, and IMO fear is a major cause of crashing. This is why I'm hesitant to support the idea of "dialing it back".
> 
> The issue I have with this is it creates anxiety. Maybe not for everyone, but for me it can, and I've seen it in many of my friends. It leads to the decision to only ride easier trails and fear of technical sections on trails you do ride. While this may seem logical and obviously safer vs riding more difficult trails (that are still within one's ability level) I'm not so sure this is really the case, as least it hasn't been for me and I'd guess a majority of folks. Accidents often happen on easier trails. IMO, anytime you're on 2 wheels you need to be fully alert and present.
> 
> I do wear a full-face, a pack with back protection and various pieces of D30 armor. I have a Garmin InReach Mini and usually ride with a friend. I lift and do yoga. This isn't really related to the decision of what and how to ride in order to avoid crashing... IMO it's just common sense as these protective measures don't cost that much in either money, discomfort and the effort is well worth it for lifting and yoga no matter what you're doing.


Maybe I should have bolded what I disagreed with. You said you don't believe there's any way to manage risk beyond doing a couple of small things. I strongly disagree with that. There are a LOT of things you can do to manage risk. Even the specific risks associated with fear.

I also disagree that fear is the ultimate issue. It might be one. But from what's been presented so far, I don't think we can say it's the biggest one or the only one. OP is concerned, for sure, and for good reason. But that doesn't necessarily mean fear.

All this is why I recommended OP sit down and do some serious reflection and risk assessment. OP needs to decide for himself what acceptable risk is. I agree, to make this decision with as little fear as possible, but once you set limits on what you feel is acceptable risk, then you can start making logical decisions about how to stay within those boundaries. You've clearly decided for yourself what is acceptable risk given the safety gear you carry. I guarantee that you have also decided what terrain/trail features present unacceptable levels of risk for you, whether you've consciously considered it or not. I'm saying that OP needs to consciously consider it.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Harold said:


> Maybe I should have bolded what I disagreed with. You said you don't believe there's any way to manage risk beyond doing a couple of small things. I strongly disagree with that. There are a LOT of things you can do to manage risk. Even the specific risks associated with fear.
> 
> I also disagree that fear is the ultimate issue. It might be one. But from what's been presented so far, I don't think we can say it's the biggest one or the only one. OP is concerned, for sure, and for good reason. But that doesn't necessarily mean fear.
> 
> All this is why I recommended OP sit down and do some serious reflection and risk assessment. OP needs to decide for himself what acceptable risk is. I agree, to make this decision with as little fear as possible, but once you set limits on what you feel is acceptable risk, then you can start making logical decisions about how to stay within those boundaries. You've clearly decided for yourself what is acceptable risk given the safety gear you carry. I guarantee that you have also decided what terrain/trail features present unacceptable levels of risk for you, whether you've consciously considered it or not. I'm saying that OP needs to consciously consider it.


Ok, I guess what I'm saying is all these other things you claim "manages" risk are simply like hiding under the bedsheets from a monster. It might make you feel better but it's debatable how effective the strategy is. Specifically, "dialing it back" is a questionable strategy as I do not see it being effective. I like MOJO K's "fast but not aggressive". You can push your limits as far as both speed as well as technical ability and both are more dangerous vs staying within your ability level. Getting better often means not being able to accurately predict exactly what the bike is going to do as you've never done exactly that before, so risk is increased.

I have consciously decided to ride a bit below my ability level and only push things if I've really considered it carefully and am only going maybe a tiny bit outside what I've done before. I've rode DH since 2006 and can ride most trails anywhere, but I'm no pro either so I do have limits and features I will not ride. These days I work more on technique than trying to go fast or hit ever larger jumps.

IME, again... anytime you're on 2 wheels you are assuming a lot of risk and you better pay attention!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

davec113 said:


> Ok, I guess what I'm saying is all these other things you claim "manages" risk are simply like hiding under the bedsheets from a monster.


this reads to me like someone who doesn't have any formal experience with what risk assessment really is. risk is always present. it's simply the likelihood of something happening. doesn't matter what that thing is (it could even be a good thing!). just that there's a chance of it happening. there are things you can do to reduce the likelihood of the thing happening. this reduces risk.

risk management also includes addressing potential consequences. there are also things you can do to reduce the severity of potential consequences. these things are usually different from the things that reduce the likelihood of the thing happening.

In OP's scenario, aging is bringing about increases in potential consequences (higher chances of suffering broken bones in crashes, more time spent in recovery), absolutely. There's a possibility that the likelihood of the crashes occurring could be increasing, too, though that's a tougher one to pin down. There are two tracks OP can take. He can do one or the other, or both, as he sees fit. He can reduce the likelihood of the things (crashes) occurring. He can reduce the severity of the consequences (injuries, wife needs to pick him up from a hospital several miles away from home, lengthy recovery time, etc) from those things occurring, as well. Acknowledging these things does not mean that fear is taking hold. Taking steps to address them does not mean fear is taking over your life.

In your case, THIS is part of your personal risk management.



> I have consciously decided to ride a bit below my ability level and only push things if I've really considered it carefully and am only going maybe a tiny bit outside what I've done before. I've rode DH since 2006 and can ride most trails anywhere, but I'm no pro either so I do have limits and features I will not ride. These days I work more on technique than trying to go fast or hit ever larger jumps.


And THIS is why you're contradicting yourself. You've assessed your personal risk. You've made decisions to manage that risk, both by taking steps to reduce the likelihood of certain things happening as well as by taking steps to reduce the severity of the consequences of something happening. And now you're saying that I'm recommending to OP to "hide under the bedsheets from a monster" but that you yourself aren't doing that by doing the exact things that I'm recommending OP do? Not just contradictory, but hypocritical.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Harold said:


> this reads to me like someone who doesn't have any formal experience with what risk assessment really is. risk is always present. it's simply the likelihood of something happening. doesn't matter what that thing is (it could even be a good thing!). just that there's a chance of it happening. there are things you can do to reduce the likelihood of the thing happening. this reduces risk.
> 
> risk management also includes addressing potential consequences. there are also things you can do to reduce the severity of potential consequences. these things are usually different from the things that reduce the likelihood of the thing happening.
> 
> ...


Or, you're just not comprehending what I'm saying...

Accusing me of being hypocritical is both rude and totally missing my point.


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## Flyer (Jan 25, 2004)

Dial back the risky trails and sections. That's really it...I do that now and I reduce the # and degree of risky situations. Keep at it but if you have to really think about it, walk it. Porc Rim does have some really tricky sections. I simply walk those. If you're not already lifting weights, do that. It will result in less fatigue and more sharpness on the bike.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

He's a multi sport athlete for the last 40 years so I think we don't need to advise him on how to train.

I had to readjust my the margins of my riding on two occasions at ages 40 and again at 46. My approach was all about changing how I identified myself as a mountain biker and letting my attitudes and actions follow that. I never felt like I was crossing things off the list of my possibilities. I never felt like I had to make any decisions about quitting something.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Some of you guys have broken a lot of bones.

Perhaps you should take the time and have a bone density test.

This will tell you if you need to lift weights to strengthen your bones. There's no reason a 70 year old cannot have the bone density of a24 year old.

And serious cyclists have really low bone density, because biking is not an impact sport.
I said cycling because that's the study i saw, but probably mountain bikers are in the same category. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

You can reduce risk while doing the sport you love. From what I know from your post, I would continue riding, with a couple of exceptions:

1. No racing bikes, period. No if or maybe. Long distance, short distance, XC, marathon, cyclocross, road bikes, all gone.
2. Not ride trails with high risk factor, like sides of cliffs or big slopes, steep DH rock gardens, etc.

The idea that you will keep doing it but be more careful hardly ever works. Do you think you can enter a race and not try to win? Walk trails that you rode many times before, because they have too much exposure? The best solution to the problem is to avoid it. No racing, no rides with unnecessary danger. No compromise.


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## vanderzee (Mar 18, 2021)

i would also vote for a full face helmet

after a friend of mine had a bad crash and ended up with a bad scar on his face and, a broken nose and jaw, i started using a full face.
Yeah it sucked,it was failty heavy and hot, but for the extra safety it was more then worth it


i would not stop for as long as i was physically able, and i rather die doing something i like


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

You just might have to dial down the trails a bit, no black diamond etc.

No racing for sure. Speed is usually a factor with bad wrecks....

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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

rod9301 said:


> Some of you guys have broken a lot of bones.
> 
> Perhaps you should take the time and have a bone density test.
> 
> ...


Lifting weights is important at our age anyway. Muscle loss is inevitable with aging, so the weights benefit both bone and muscle health.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

For those who may be confused by my saying "dialing it back" in some ways is a BAD idea... I think this explains it better than I have. If you're going to ride your bike, you need to RIDE YOUR BIKE. Half-a$$ing it is a BAD idea. Saying this, and then saying that you should ALSO limit your riding to features that don't push your limits as much as you used to is in NO WAY contradictory to this, and certainly doesn't make me hypocritical. I admit it's somewhat paradoxical that you should ride with confidence yet get off your bike on features you judge to be pushing the limits too much. But that's just how it is, things aren't always black and white, not always straightforward.









Why You Should Always Ride On The Offence


What if you did everything on trail to the best of your ability? I'm serious, what would happen to your riding if you did to the best of your ability (with the skills you currently possess)? I think the results would be amazing! So, why are we so focused on what we are doing wrong? "Don't look...




www.mtbr.com


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## Surfindabass (Nov 30, 2020)

Keep riding while you can! Maybe finding something that makes you "stop and smell the roses" more during the ride rather than speed and intensity. Could be photography, filming - anything that keeps you out on the trail with a different purpose. Keeps it new, fresh and looking at something you've done for years in a different perspective.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

davec113 said:


> For those who may be confused by my saying "dialing it back" in some ways is a BAD idea... I think this explains it better than I have. If you're going to ride your bike, you need to RIDE YOUR BIKE. Half-a$$ing it is a BAD idea. Saying this, and then saying that you should ALSO limit your riding to features that don't push your limits as much as you used to is in NO WAY contradictory to this, and certainly doesn't make me hypocritical. I admit it's somewhat paradoxical that you should ride with confidence yet get off your bike on features you judge to be pushing the limits too much. But that's just how it is, things aren't always black and white, not always straightforward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you. I understand this. Definitely get in trouble with out confidence. Last year I swallowed my pride and stopped riding lift parks, the tricky stuff, with a kid his Mom. Finally got out of my league and felt dangerous. I might just keep going, avoid the techy stuff that feels uncertain.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

davec113 said:


> For those who may be confused by my saying "dialing it back" in some ways is a BAD idea... I think this explains it better than I have. If you're going to ride your bike, you need to RIDE YOUR BIKE. Half-a$$ing it is a BAD idea. Saying this, and then saying that you should ALSO limit your riding to features that don't push your limits as much as you used to is in NO WAY contradictory to this, and certainly doesn't make me hypocritical. I admit it's somewhat paradoxical that you should ride with confidence yet get off your bike on features you judge to be pushing the limits too much. But that's just how it is, things aren't always black and white, not always straightforward.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Frankly, I think you're guilty of poorly describing what you're talking about. And of course you got offended when I pointed out your contradictory language. You dug in deeper and more blatantly contradicted yourself.

"Dialing it back" is a really general phrase. It can mean a whole lot of different things. Many of which have been described in depth in this discussion. And none of which actually mean what you've been saying "dialing it back" means. What you're saying _could_ be part of it. But nobody is suggesting to OP to do that. You're hanging up on that innocuous phrase without really considering the rest of the discussion.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Harold said:


> Frankly, I think you're guilty of poorly describing what you're talking about. And of course you got offended when I pointed out your contradictory language. You dug in deeper and more blatantly contradicted yourself.
> 
> "Dialing it back" is a really general phrase. It can mean a whole lot of different things. Many of which have been described in depth in this discussion. And none of which actually mean what you've been saying "dialing it back" means. What you're saying _could_ be part of it. But nobody is suggesting to OP to do that. You're hanging up on that innocuous phrase without really considering the rest of the discussion.


Seriously? I DEFINED what I meant by "dialing it back". Now STFU. You're being a total d!ck.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Ugh... I won't weigh in on either side of this disagreement, but I will say some people around here really seem to like having a disagreement just so they can have a thing... any thing at all... on which they can make it clear how much they oppose it.

Shame too... This was a really good thread with a serious topic we all have to face before it took a turn.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Yup... It's in the 50+ forum.

NOW GET OFF MY LAWN!! 

Sent from my HD1900 using Tapatalk


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

davec113 said:


> Seriously? I DEFINED what I meant by "dialing it back". Now STFU. You're being a total d!ck.


you're full of it. yes, I disagree with your overly restrictive use of "dialing it back" but that's not what you're being contradictory and hypocritical about.

the REAL problem with what you keep saying is the fact that you started diminishing "managing the risk" in your first post, and poo-pooing suggestions for OP to examine and manage his own risk, yet continued to talk about how you, yourself, manage _your_ own risk.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Bike injury seems much simpler to manage than keyboard rage and semantics addiction.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

I think I dial things back all of the time after injuries. It even happens in real time in a race after you poorly execute enough corners and it micro adjusts your braking for the rest of the race. 

Are all of these bad wrecks happening in races? You say you can look back and see what caused it. Can you effectively correct the action that caused it or is it something that is thrown out the window. 

I was extremely careful with my cornering after my shoulder separation (until I rammed that shoulder at speed into a tree at nationals and nothing happened!)

I had an extremely bad knee injury which I thought may have been the end of my cycling. I couldn’t even bend my knee enough to come over the top of the pedals. I took corrective action and actively worked for months on my coasting position to maintain horizontal cranks and avoid the type of coasting root/rock strike that led to that injury. 

If it’s things like this, I say keep on. If it’s something like racing that makes you throw caution to the wind, you may need to dial back intensity but just 2-3 percent. It could be enough to improve your ability to make those real time decisions. 

I like the idea of a little armor, but I know I would implode if I had to race XC in pads or a full face. 

Even though I am fast down hill, it’s not worth it to me to Jeopardize my training and time on the bike with an Injury, so I just don’t race enduros. I did an enduro at 98%. I dialed it back, until that moment I did not. I wish I had a video of that moment, because I am pretty sure I scorpioned like no other. 


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

Harold said:


> you're full of it. yes, I disagree with your overly restrictive use of "dialing it back" but that's not what you're being contradictory and hypocritical about.
> 
> the REAL problem with what you keep saying is the fact that you started diminishing "managing the risk" in your first post, and poo-pooing suggestions for OP to examine and manage his own risk, yet continued to talk about how you, yourself, manage _your_ own risk.


Keep digging...


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## skibum1 (Jan 3, 2005)

Check w your doc #1. All clear, keep riding. Just dial it back. It’s like skiing. I’ve skied w people in their 90s. Know your limits and do what u love within reason. Having a good bike underneath you with good suspension also helps. Keep it moving.


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## Holden O (Mar 19, 2021)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


It sounds like you are a skilled and strong rider, so skills, bike type and fitness are not the issue. And, it sounds like trail difficulty level may not be the issue. But, it does sound like the combination of speed and the reckless abandon of competition make up the issue. I would suggest slower riding just for the fun of it and not for the competitiveness will be key.


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## wmbeverleyblanco (Sep 7, 2016)

Sir I am a Hard Headed Bill as well.
A few years ago I nearly killed myself on my first DH run in Park City. And this moment I am recovering from knee surgery. These and many other accidents and incidents in 20+ of an Army have humbled me to appreciate my physical frailty and the resilience of my spirit.
By God keep riding! Cyclotherapy is our life.
Consider riding off the edge not on the razors edge, consider elegance and riding with mastery at non lethal speeds....and always ride with a buddy who keeps you safe.
I hope these words bring you the resilience to Laissez les Bons Temps Rouler....
En Velo Bien Sur!
Bill Beverley-Blanco 
LTC USA Retired

OTE="NMBillb, post: 15250284, member: 823096"]
So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.

To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.

So I can rationalize why each crash happened, but they happen so fast you can't be sure. But this type of injuries never happened before. So I think about my age and how to forward. Just stop a thing I love? Just ride local trails I am familiar with. Don't travel far from home to ride? Don't race and try to go fast? I am a 7 hour drive away from home right now and family/friends will have to come down to drive me home. Not fair to them.
Any thoughts appreciated. I've been on this forum a long time under different users names.
[/QUOTE]


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## mergs (Feb 14, 2004)

@NMBillb what kind of mtb were you riding when you crashed? I found I crash a f-ton less with a modern slacker bike (I rode an Epo and now ride a Ripley v4). Just a thought.


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## MahaMytchie (Mar 19, 2021)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


Hey Mr. Bill -

I've been asking the same question a lot lately. Recovering from a splat off a fairly good sized drop. Shoulder, wrist, neck. Thing is, I ride stronger and better and with far better gear than I did when I was 18, 28, 38, even 48 or... you get the point. I love it and still go for the stuff that gives me a rush. And I do get a rush. Especially when I drop those half my age. Or I did. Because I noticed that's where I got into trouble, when the ego took the bars. I notice that as long as I don't care if anyone notices that I hit that big drop or how I rate on Strava, I ride well AND safely. It is a Zen thing. A meditation. It's being so completely present that it feels like I have an extra set of senses. I instinctively know the trails to hit, the line to ride and those to avoid. That's been my practice of late, and it has taken riding to next level for me. I find I'm not taking the risks, but I am going faster, getting better cardio and the rides have taken on a whole new dimension. Sometimes, now, if I get the signal to do so I'll make an extended stop and listen to silence. Watch a bird flit from tree to tree. Feel the breeze. It pulls me back in and the ride takes on a richness like never before. I'm still recovering, but riding to do so. I'll keep on going. It's my way. You'll find yours.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

mergs said:


> @NMBillb what kind of mtb were you riding when you crashed? I found I crash a f-ton less with a modern slacker bike (I rode an Epo and now ride a Ripley v4). Just a thought.


I was riding a hard tail 29er, the retirees Epic the Chisel with custom wheels, XT 12sd, 100 mm SID, and 100 mm dropper. Seemed good for that course. Crash at mile 35 of 43 mile loop and rocky downhill that didn't seem worth using my dropper. Race mania? Tired? Rear brake almost totally gone, my fault. Bike is newish and times I felt need a longer stem. My trail bike is Spot Rollik v1.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

MahaMytchie said:


> Hey Mr. Bill -
> 
> I've been asking the same question a lot lately. Recovering from a splat off a fairly good sized drop. Shoulder, wrist, neck. Thing is, I ride stronger and better and with far better gear than I did when I was 18, 28, 38, even 48 or... you get the point. I love it and still go for the stuff that gives me a rush. And I do get a rush. Especially when I drop those half my age. Or I did. Because I noticed that's where I got into trouble, when the ego took the bars. I notice that as long as I don't care if anyone notices that I hit that big drop or how I rate on Strava, I ride well AND safely. It is a Zen thing. A meditation. It's being so completely present that it feels like I have an extra set of senses. I instinctively know the trails to hit, the line to ride and those to avoid. That's been my practice of late, and it has taken riding to next level for me. I find I'm not taking the risks, but I am going faster, getting better cardio and the rides have taken on a whole new dimension. Sometimes, now, if I get the signal to do so I'll make an extended stop and listen to silence. Watch a bird flit from tree to tree. Feel the breeze. It pulls me back in and the ride takes on a richness like never before. I'm still recovering, but riding to do so. I'll keep on going. It's my way. You'll find yours.


Thank you!


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## abegold (Jan 30, 2004)

I'm 67. If you're still on the 26" bike it's time to upgrade. The new progressive geometry and bigger wheels just make riding easier and more fun. My new bike weighs just 27.1 pounds and rolls over so much more rocks and roots than my 26" bikes ever did. The progressive geometry has me descending much better. Dropper posts just make it easier in tech terrain.


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## SVXITY (Mar 19, 2021)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Something not mentioned by anyone yet is the age-related decrease in proprioception. As we age, our brain and body don't communicate as effectively as they did when we were younger, so it's much harder to maintain your position in space, or at least more difficult to react to your body's changes in space.
> 
> Not to say you are too old anymore to do this sort of thing (I've known plenty of late 60 year olds that can ride circles around me) it's just something every one of us is looking at in our futures, and sooner for some and later for others, there will come a point when we have to have that conversation with ourselves. At some point we will all be relying on walkers or wheelchairs, and at some point before that, we need to realize our children are going to want to take our car keys from us. Not only for our own good, but for the good of everyone on the road around us.
> 
> ...


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## mergs (Feb 14, 2004)

NMBillb said:


> I was riding a hard tail 29er, the retirees Epic the Chisel with custom wheels, XT 12sd, 100 mm SID, and 100 mm dropper. Seemed good for that course. Crash at mile 35 of 43 mile loop and rocky downhill that didn't seem worth using my dropper. Race mania? Tired? Rear brake almost totally gone, my fault. Bike is newish and times I felt need a longer stem. My trail bike is Spot Rollik v1.


Well, kudos to you Bill! I had to sell my Canfield Epo hard tail 3 years ago due to a back injury and had tears in my eyes when I let her go. That hard tail was the most fun and fastest bike I'd ever owned. I rode that bike hard and put it away wet, so I get why you like that Chisel. I traded up to somewhat of a FS equivalent with the Ripley Gen 4 (HT angle 66.5, ST angle 76) which is not far from your Spot (I had a SS Rocker for years, btw).

Dial back, I'd say nah, just ride your Rollick more, for safety reasons.  I bet you don't crash on the Rollik, right?

And, please sir, use your dropper!


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## SVXITY (Mar 19, 2021)

NMBillb, I salute your willingness to enlist opinions from an impersonal social group of riders. I think the answer to your question(s) lies within the context of the question(s). The fact that you are acknowledging , what you have implied as an increase in mishaps while riding, . . . significant from the sounds of things . . . to me, indicates an opportunity to truly assess your riding activities from a number perspectives. That you have incurred injury as a result of a biking accident does not tell the whole story as there is not enough information in what you shared regarding factors other than an implication of some familiarity with the route you were following (i.e. were you "just riding along" or riding more aggressively than usual, type of bike appropriate to terrain, state of mind, weather, distractions, etc.) for us to figure out the "what" and the "why" causes of the event. It sounds like we have both been riding for about the same number of years and I am only about three years behind your age. I consider myself fit and sharp for my age and recognize that I am riding less aggressively and more carefully with the passing of years. I have done my share of crashing, particularly when in my 40s, while pressing the limits of my riding abilities, riding competitively and hanging out with a younger group of bikers. Knock on wood . . . I haven't had a significant crash in over a decade and, as well, am not looking to enter the Red Bull Rampage, but just enjoying riding and accepting challenges that are less apt to produce debilitating side effects (I've decided that I don't enjoy having to recover from broken ribs - been there a few times). I'll bet you probably have a good idea what led to the most recent crash and can, after consideration, modify what you do on a bike, how and where, in order to minimize the likelihood of a recurrence. I wish you well and a swift recovery . . . try not to laugh, sneeze or cough for a couple of months. ;-)


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## jiw71 (Feb 15, 2009)

These types of serious injuries happening to you is a STRONG signal to stop what you are doing. It's obvious that you haven't adapted to your waning skill level and the natural aging process where reaction time, agility, muscle atrophy and stamina are also waning. How do I know these things? I am 72 and still trail ride. But you won't find me on gnarly technical trails. I have been fortunate enough (and lucky) to have continued to ride in excess of 5000 kms in each of the last 8 years. Ride within your capabilities or find another past time before you end up in a wheel chair.


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## manodpickr (Jan 4, 2018)

I'm 67 and I know a torn rotator cuff or broken leg may be may last mtbing, so I've made some concessions. I still have a 5010 for the tight single track, I added an IBIS HD4 for the slacker geometry.for some of those Pisgah downills drops such as two found on Sycamore Cove . But most of my time now is spent on rough singletrack. It's nice to feel like you're flying between the trees when you're only doing 12 mph. Plus I'd rather hit a tree @12 than endoing after a hard landing.on Ridgeline. So I'm not blitzing downhills like I did 20 years ago, but I look around and the guys that I was riding with then no longer ride at all. I still love riding. I still love trying to clean the rock gardens, or make it up the technical hill. And I hope I'm still riding at 70 (and beyond) as you are. And if that happens, then the concessions I've made are well worth it.


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## tucsonturtle (Feb 12, 2015)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


After my last big crash I went to a Jones 29-plus Long Wheel Base Ti Spaceframe. Super stable, close to impossible for me to endo, super comfortable riding position And I still get PRs on Strava. I realized that I'd rather ride farther than faster, just can't keep up with the young guys. I still ride organized event, some call them races, but ride for enjoyment rather than adrenaline. Crashes can really keep you off the bike not matter your age but for some of us older guys it can be a game changer.


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## ElTortoise (Jul 27, 2015)

I've run into other guys who are into their 70's and still riding. I'm 58 and I have to say I admire you guys. Keep pedaling. If you feel you need to, scale back a bit on the miles and maybe stick to less technical terrain where you can keep both wheels on the ground. Injuries are never fun and age is no friend when healing from injuries. Personally, I hope I'm still pedaling a bike into my 70's because I feel that riding is what helps keep me young (and sane). I hope that's true for you.


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## CrozCountry (Mar 18, 2011)

Good point on modern bikes. Long and slack 29ers do crash less, a lot less. I am always amazed by what I can get away with. Add 29 and long travel, the safety margin is on another level. I don't really ride a hardtail on the trails anymore, even on dirt jumps I use full suspension.


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## MasterDabber (Dec 4, 2019)

Writing from the UK here. Just my perspective. I'm 73 now and until a couple of years ago I was pretty much exclusively a road rider (although I'd done the usual family riding back when my son was young on my old Scott Sawtooth).
On my 70th birthday I rode the Tourmalet in the Pyrenees which was a great experience. About 2 years ago I drove more or less 11 hours solid back from southwest France, where we have a house, to the UK.This resulted in me having a minor pulmonary embolism which shook me up a bit. I'd always thought of me being kind of invincible (as did my family). 

I recovered fine from that with no ongoing damage having been done...lucky! but I decided that going balls out on the road was perhaps not such a good idea so I started to take my road rides a lot easier, more gentle and take in my surroundings more. This led to me resurrecting my old Sawtooth and I started riding some trails. Thoroughly enjoyed it and ended up getting a FS trail bike. 
Now my riding is pretty much 100% off road apart from some winter turbo riding. For me the challenge has been not how fast I ride the trails but the level/difficulty of the trails I attempt. This has been great and I get massive satisfaction when I get down a trail that I had previously looked at but chickened out from doing.
However, a bit before Christmas I rode a trail I'd done previously that was in a hidden sort of trench.There was one section I wanted to get through at a bit more speed to make the following incline a bit easier. The inevitable happened. I lost the front end and went over the bars. I lay there badly winded, ribs hurting. Once I'd realised I hadn't broken anything (wasn't sure about ribs) I slowly moved and got mysefl sorted. Sat down for a good while and prepared myself to ride home.I never saw anyone else, the woods were silent, I had been hidden in the trench....it brought home to me how vulnerable I'd been. So now I try and be a bit more sensible. It took me months for my hurting ribs to heal although I hadn't broken them. At 73 you just don't bounce so well.
Having said that I had a fall yesterday on a trail new to me where I came down round a bend and couldn't avoid a fallen tree (just the top branches,not the trunk. All good and no damage done.
I think that's the problem, I know I should be more sensible but at 73 I still want to have fun and test myself but.... just finding the right balance I guess.
Sorry for the long ramble.


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## preventec47 (Oct 31, 2020)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


HOCKEY HELMET with facemask ! That is what I wear after putting a large dent in my head last year with much loss of blood. I am 67. Lifetime athelete. My reaction is so much slower these days I cannot react as fast as I need to to correct for something. In my 20's if I was running and tripped, I could catch myself with my hands in a push up fashion. NOW, when I trip and fall. I hit on my face and never get my hands up to brace or absorb the impact.
I still workout hard but I skip ALL the technical stuff. All the things we use to react to we now have to PLAN for.
When riding look way ahead and anticipate everything that could cause a problem and avoid it. Go around it or SLOW WAY DOWN.....or even get OFF YOUR BIKE and walk it. (GASP) Again HOCKEY HELMET. Way Better !


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## rustie (Apr 21, 2010)

As an eighty year old, I've found that focussing on the technical aspects of riding is the key to avoiding the serious wipeouts.
So much of all gravity sports is just bombing down (or up!), letting gravity waft you over the obstacles, enjoying speed and commitment.................
But I like to go slowly and in control. I have learned to enjoy mastering the challenges instead of blasting over them, of churning out the minimal amount of speed-energy to maintain my impetus over obstacles and of analyzing the challenges instead of fearlessly (?) plunging into action.
It's all part of growing up. Do exactly what you can manage -- and no more -- or less!
So.......I have had to cut out double blacks, just enjoy the more user-friendly single blacks. And some blue lines can be fun too. Build your own trails then you can groom them nicely......
Like they say out there: "Do You Want To Live Forever"!


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## winsail (Dec 27, 2007)

Sobering post but duly noted. I'm 63 still enjoying riding but I already do less than at 55. Less miles, less risk, less racing and looking at lightweight e-bikes. Less seems like the way to go. My best riding partner is 74 and I really see the difference in him. He still rides but more gravel and road lately. He bought a turbo levo SL expert and loves it. He has more balance issues and less stamina but that only started around 70 for him. I still think you can do less and have a great time riding. Your post poses the question should I dial it back? YES if you want to live to ride another day. We are all only 1 fall away from no longer riding. In my 50's on different rides I broke my ribs, shattered my wrist and fractured my C6 neck vertebrae. That was the most sobering. On my local 12 mile after work ride. I nearly became a quadriplegic and still have some nerve damage in my left hand to this day. I can still ride but I just do less. I ride harder uphill and go slower downhill. You know the answer to your own question. Ride until you can't with less intensity every year. I don't look 35 in the mirror anymore so I don't ride like I am.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

I love speed as much as the next guy, mtn descents on the road or mtn bikes, or just riding my mx or supermoto bikes. Thankfully I've avoided a serious accident but did hit my back against a tree once so I now always wear back protection/hydration pack.
I'll be 55 soon but about 5 years ago I made a conscious effort to back it off a little on the DH parts, in my mind I make up for it when the trails point up.


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## crackah (Jul 30, 2016)

More green & blue trails, & fire roads?
Although I’m in my mid-40s, the injuries I’ve sustained in the last few years are worse than when I was in my 20s & 30s... I’m hoping that I am able to be more judicious/prudent/careful as I age, and my “plan” is to try to do more green & blue trails in my golden years, but although this is simple in concept, my first 35-ish years of biking seem to suggest it might be a bad accident that takes me out of biking... however things play out, I hope I’m biking until I croak, maybe even after I can’t walk 🤞


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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.



jiw71 said:


> These types of serious injuries happening to you is a STRONG signal to stop what you are doing. It's obvious that you haven't adapted to your waning skill level and the natural aging process where reaction time, agility, muscle atrophy and stamina are also waning. How do I know these things? I am 72 and still trail ride. But you won't find me on gnarly technical trails. I have been fortunate enough (and lucky) to have continued to ride in excess of 5000 kms in each of the last 8 years. Ride within your capabilities or find another past time before you end up in a wheel chair.


Finally, the voice of reason. Look, at some point you have to ask yourself, Why.
To say that you will be fully recovered after your last accident shows that you haven't fully grasped the seriousness of your situation. At 70+ you will never fully recover. You will feel better and you should certainly be able to ride again. But you will have new deficits in mobility and respiratory issues. At any age, the effects of serious injuries are cumulative. When we are younger we have a reserve to help compensate. But at our age( I'm 67) that reserve is minimal.
Look, I still do triathlons. But Xterra Maui in 2019 kicked my butt. Only race in over 60 races that I DNFd. I have a half Ironman coming up in June and Kona in Oct. I won't stand on the podium but I wont be DFL and I will be smiling.
FOr me the answer to the question why is, for the fun of it. I dial it back a bit so I can enjoy the moment. I have a garage full of trophies from the last 50 years. Now my greatest trophy is my health and happiness.
Keep on riding and take time to enjoy the ride.
H


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Interesting take about muscle atrophy and longer reaction times.

I'm 72, and lift regularly and i haven't lost any muscle at all.

I also used yesterday an app fastest, i think it's called, to measure my reaction time. It was between. 25 and. 3 seconds, certainly not world class, but less than the. 78 average for my age.

I'm not saying all this to brag, just that it's possible to stay with it. The key is not to give up.

I started mountain biking at 50, and I'm still improving my technical skills. Spent three weeks in ainsa, Spain last summer.

Very technical downhills, and i think i improved.

Going back to Tahoe, i cleaned the upper big chief, which for me it was a big deal, which seemed unattainable before.


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## downcountry (Apr 27, 2019)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


Not to be a Dick ( can't help it sometimes)
but as long as you've been riding and competing, surely you already knew the answer. 
Yeah, you can try a bunch of preventive measures to mitigate risk. But no matter what you do, the risks are always there. 
If you continue to ride, you WILL crash,
and it might be serious, or maybe not. 
Risk mitigation does NOT eliminate risk. 
Simple decision, really, although arriving at and accepting it may take awhile. 
1)Ride and accept risk;
2)Don't ride.


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

downcountry said:


> Not to be a Dick ( can't help it sometimes)
> but as long as you've been riding and competing, surely you already knew the answer.
> Yeah, you can try a bunch of preventive measures to mitigate risk. But no matter what you do, the risks are always there.
> If you continue to ride, you WILL crash,
> ...


I agree, but I also see it as a tradeoff.

With few exceptions, nobody gets through life without injury. I'd argue that if you DON'T mt bike, ski, etc. you'll just get injured doing more mundane things. So choice #2 is not simply don't ride... it's don't ride and accept other risks and tradeoffs.

An old friend was risk-adverse and not very active, she put a foot wrong walking down some steps and broke her foot so badly the doctors warned her amputation may be necessary. At what point do we see steps as something a bit too risky?

I would suggest, like most things in this world, a middle way is the best way.  If you still like riding, ride. I don't like "dialing it back" because of the connotation, but I do agree with "don't be reckless", "pay attention", and "don't ride for your ego".


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

So many great points made, it's also fantastic to read of the desire and push to keep going no matter how old we get. 

At 46 myself, while not old there's that risk assessment. As a long time power lifter and strongman... Unfortunately, yeah on the older side. Had to have the "think it thru" convo after straining my elbows on a very heavy lift, recovery was nearly a yr of reduced lifting, etc.. sucked.. 

Wanted to mention the bone density issue. This one sucks as it's not really explained to the public. We have a short window while growing up to build bone density, peaking right near 30, then the loss overtakes the gain. Now it's a game of trying to keep what we have. It's also why I'm adamant that my boys started training at 16, not overly heavy but enough to build density to support the muscle mass and strain later in life. We have to stay active. Lifting or even bodyweight activity that keeps that muscle strain going is key to a very long active life. Just sucks about bone density... That info really needs to be better informed to everyone. 

I don't ever plan on stopping, but I do have to adapt... Not in my 20's anymore, that one stings a bit not going to lie. Was going thru old journals on my lifts, at 24 I was doing 10x10's of weights that I currently would struggle lifting for a 3 rep once! Let alone a brutal 10x10... 

It's that subtle, knowing when and how far to push it, knowing by listening to and being honest with ourselves and telling ego to stfu, that's the hard one. But you do gotta risk it every so often, adrenaline is quite the drug!


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Bone density.


I saw a video a couple of years ago about the guy who skied down everest in the 1970s, japanese, miura i think.

A couple of years ago he was injured and he couldn't do much 

His bone density went down, but with training it went back up again.
So it's possible to increase it, even at 78.

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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

rod9301 said:


> Bone density.
> 
> I saw a video a couple of years ago about the guy who skied down everest in the 1970s, japanese, miura i think.
> 
> ...


Wonder what he did. The issue as I've read it and been told by the docs, is that the losses as we age are greater then the gains. 
My wife has a very high bone turnover, to combat this and other endocrine issues she's on HGH, she's also weight lifting 3-4x a week.. yearly bone scans show holding steady. 
I don't think most people realize just how active we humans need to be to stay healthy. The recommend 150mins a week... Seriously!


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Blathma said:


> Wonder what he did. The issue as I've read it and been told by the docs, is that the losses as we age are greater then the gains.
> My wife has a very high bone turnover, to combat this and other endocrine issues she's on HGH, she's also weight lifting 3-4x a week.. yearly bone scans show holding steady.
> I don't think most people realize just how active we humans need to be to stay healthy. The recommend 150mins a week... Seriously!


Lifting

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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

When i think about skipping out on a ride i remind myself: you can not ride when you are dead.


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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

Monty219 said:


> When i think about skipping out on a ride i remind myself: you can not ride when you are dead.


Conversely, for the next three months the original poster can't do much of anything Because of a bunch of broken bones and some painful hardware.
It's easy to suggest to others to continue riding at an elevated level at an advanced age. They don't have to live with the consequences.
Its okay to rage against the dying of the light. I live it every day. But one doesn't have to do it going balls out on a double black single track.
Goals and personal benchmarks change. Everyone's body is unique and genetics play a big part. But after 60 no amount of lifting or diet or positive thinking can alter the well documented fact that or bodies decline faster than we can rebuild.
The best we can do is stem the tide and stay healthy. 
MOnths of relative inactIvity due to injury are much more life changing after 60.
More often than not, discretion is the better part of valor.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Blathma said:


> We have a short window while growing up to build bone density, peaking right near 30, then the loss overtakes the gain.


Way back when, in a former life, we learned about Wolff's Law, which essentially states a bone responds to the demands placed on it by becoming stronger and more dense. There wasn't a caveat of age related loss mentioned to us as students, although things might have changed in the years since it was taught to us.

Even 90 year olds can increase muscle mass and bone density with load bearing exercise.

One of the things we were told that has stuck out to me was the difference between walking on a flat surface vs. on a slight incline. The incline imparts a greater workload to the bones of the legs and pelvis, which was enough to show a statistically significant decrease in broken hips after falls in elderly patients vs. those that walked on flat surfaces.

In the simplest terms, it's proof of what most older people already know... You can't stop moving and doing work. That's what will get you.


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## Monty219 (Oct 26, 2020)

TriguyHI said:


> Conversely, for the next three months the original poster can't do much of anything Because of a bunch of broken bones and some painful hardware.
> It's easy to suggest to others to continue riding at an elevated level at an advanced age. They don't have to live with the consequences.
> Its okay to rage against the dying of the light. I live it every day. But one doesn't have to do it going balls out on a double black single track.
> Goals and personal benchmarks change. Everyone's body is unique and genetics play a big part. But after 60 no amount of lifting or diet or positive thinking can alter the well documented fact that or bodies decline faster than we can rebuild.
> ...


I wasn't suggesting anyone to ride above their ability level, take big risks, get hurt, etc... just keep riding as long as you can in whatever way is most fun and sustainable for you. The best mountain biker, or any cyclist is the one having the most fun, that comes from within. Mountain biking is an incredibly diverse pursuit, enjoy whatever aspects of it you want while you can.


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## upstateSC-rider (Dec 25, 2003)

TriguyHI said:


> Conversely, for the next three months the original poster can't do much of anything Because of a bunch of broken bones and some painful hardware.
> It's easy to suggest to others to continue riding at an elevated level at an advanced age. They don't have to live with the consequences.
> Its okay to rage against the dying of the light. I live it every day. But one doesn't have to do it going balls out on a double black single track.
> Goals and personal benchmarks change. Everyone's body is unique and genetics play a big part. But after 60 no amount of lifting or diet or positive thinking can alter the well documented fact that or bodies decline faster than we can rebuild.
> ...


This exactly.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

More XC style & flat pedals will go a long ways towards reducing future injuries. 
E- bike is a dumb solution that will harm your fitness AND increase risk for injury. 
Either way, you are an inspiration to me. 
Good luck. 

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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

KobayashiMaru said:


> Way back when, in a former life, we learned about Wolff's Law, which essentially states a bone responds to the demands placed on it by becoming stronger and more dense. There wasn't a caveat of age related loss mentioned to us as students, although things might have changed in the years since it was taught to us.
> 
> Even 90 year olds can increase muscle mass and bone density with load bearing exercise.
> 
> ...


Sure, in it's simplest terms. But a human body is far from simple. And if all that mattered was bone density and muscle mass we would all live to be hundreds of years old. Most people don't die simply because they stopped being active. Certainly being active can delay the inevitable, but decay is inevitable. It is faster for some than others but inevitable none the less. No amount of weight lifting or swimming or diet du jour has been proven to reliably reverse the aging process.
Ocular tissue hardens, joint surfaces wear out, your spine becomes shorter as the discs compress, connective tissues become less compliant, your skin is less pliable.
All of these processes occur regardless of the amount of bone density or muscle mass we maintain. The best we can hope for is that we slow it down a bit.
Seriously, how many 50+ professional athletes do you know. Why is that? Lack of desire, or ability, drive, or commitment? Not enough days in the gym? Hardly!
Men and women like the original poster exemplify drive and commitment. I see them by the dozens at every Ironman and Xterra race I do. I see them at 5am pool swims, on long training rides alone.
The point is that it is dozens and not hundreds or thousands like the under 60 competitors.
Aging is inevitable and by and large it is not reversible to any significant degree.
The original question was if he should continue until entropy and gravity collide with age with a catastrophic accident.
Only he can answer that.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Lift weights, stretch, incorporate core work, include intensity sessions for the cardiovascular system, and eat right. At our age, all of these things are necessary if we want to keep pushing ourselves.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Crankout said:


> Lift weights, stretch, incorporate core work, include intensity sessions for the cardiovascular system, and eat right. At our age, all of these things are necessary if we want to keep pushing ourselves.


Eat good food, drink good wine, spend time with the people you love, and train however you want!


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MOJO K said:


> Eat good food, drink good wine, spend time with the people you love, and train however you want!


Look, I enjoy my good booze and food. But, in moderation, if I plan to keep up my current pace. I'm just offering up the best advice is all.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Crankout said:


> Look, I enjoy my good booze and food. But, in moderation, if I plan to keep up my current pace. I'm just offering up the best advice is all.


All I'm suggesting is that, the OP says this guy is right now a race conditioned athlete, and he has been for decades. He's not some dude on a couch looking to get more fit. He's the guy in the hospital asking how to let go a little bit.

Everything you suggest applies to me as I try to ramp back up and is good advice, I just don't think this guy needs to work harder right now.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MOJO K said:


> All I'm suggesting is that, the OP says this guy is right now a race conditioned athlete, and he has been for decades. He's not some dude on a couch looking to get more fit. He's the guy in the hospital asking how to let go a little bit.
> 
> Everything you suggest applies to me as I try to ramp back up and is good advice, I just don't think this guy needs to work harder right now.


The 72 y.o. fella on the board suggested a similar approach. He knows his business....


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm just assuming the guy who stepped on the podium at Xterra Maui a couple of years ago and loves training intervals already knows about lifting and stretching and diet.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Ok, so triathletes swim and bike, both are non weight bearing and do not help with bone density loss.
Running helps.

This is a mountain bike forum.
I'm willing to bet that people that mountain bike and do not run or lift have low bone density. 

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

TriguyHI said:


> The best we can hope for is that we slow it down a bit.


You're right in saying that, but as a blanket statement, to state everyone peaks at age 30 and then it's only downhill from there is incorrect. Your body will respond to the stresses put on it. If you start lifting or doing some other form of weight bearing activities, it will strengthen bone where it needs to, to whatever degree it is able, at whatever age. Bone is always going through a remodeling and recycling of sorts at the cellular level, and that continues until we no longer have biological processes occurring in our bodies... otherwise known as death.

So, yes, doing certain things won't reverse aging. That would be absurd to assume. Some things however, as you have said, can slow it down.


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## squakmtn (Jun 12, 2009)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


I'm 62 and started MTB with my ski bum friends in '85. I had the same experience as you with inexplicable crashes cropping up, only in my mid 40s when I started having crashes with long recovery times. I crashed in Moab on the last day of a two week trip and had to drive my 5-speed manual car all the way home to Seattle area with one arm, my shoulder destroyed and ending up with surgery and 6 months of rehab (not to mention a lost ski season!). Throw in a couple of concussions (one on skis, one on MTB) and the statistics were piling up.
So...I had to rethink, dial back, and gear up! Walk the questionable stuff (no one ever dies from a portage!) and live to ride another day. Competition is out, no need to impress anyone, just be glad to be there on a trail on a bike. Go as long travel as you can, time to plush out and broaden the sweet spot as much as possible to reduce the chance of a serious digger. And yes, last summer I invested in a lightweight e-Bike (Specialized Turbo Levo SL) that broadened the sweet spot that much more, a definite career extender, just like fat skis and modern touring boots...


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## davec113 (May 31, 2006)

squakmtn said:


> I'm 62 and started MTB with my ski bum friends in '85. I had the same experience as you with inexplicable crashes cropping up, only in my mid 40s when I started having crashes with long recovery times. I crashed in Moab on the last day of a two week trip and had to drive my 5-speed manual car all the way home to Seattle area with one arm, my shoulder destroyed and ending up with surgery and 6 months of rehab (not to mention a lost ski season!). Throw in a couple of concussions (one on skis, one on MTB) and the statistics were piling up.
> So...I had to rethink, dial back, and gear up! Walk the questionable stuff (no one ever dies from a portage!) and live to ride another day. Competition is out, no need to impress anyone, just be glad to be there on a trail on a bike. Go as long travel as you can, time to plush out and broaden the sweet spot as much as possible to reduce the chance of a serious digger. And yes, last summer I invested in a lightweight e-Bike (Specialized Turbo Levo SL) that broadened the sweet spot that much more, a definite career extender, just like fat skis and modern touring boots...


As someone on their 4th shoulder injury that has occurred since I turned 40, and managed to get away with skiing, snowboarding and biking HUNDREDS of days without an incident before I turned 40, I have to ask WTF is going on? I have noticed A LOT of folks saying they experienced more serious injuries in their 40s on this thread. Why is this?

For me, at 46, I'm actually fitter, faster and more skilled on a bike than I ever was when I was younger, and bikes keep getting better, so I thought that might explain it as I'm still progressing my skills and abilities, but this thread makes me wonder if there isn't more to it...


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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

KobayashiMaru said:


> You're right in saying that, but as a blanket statement, to state everyone peaks at age 30 and then it's only downhill from there is incorrect. Your body will respond to the stresses put on it. If you start lifting or doing some other form of weight bearing activities, it will strengthen bone where it needs to, to whatever degree it is able, at whatever age. Bone is always going through a remodeling and recycling of sorts at the cellular level, and that continues until we no longer have biological processes occurring in our bodies... otherwise known as death.
> 
> So, yes, doing certain things won't reverse aging. That would be absurd to assume. Some things however, as you have said, can slow it down.


Sorry, I missed the part where anyone said we all peak at 30.
I didn't start endurance racing until my 61st birthday .
I've lost 50 lbs and am in better shape than in decades.
But all that has come at a cost. Only the original poster can determine if the cost isworth it for him.


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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

rod9301 said:


> Ok, so triathletes swim and bike, both are non weight bearing and do not help with bone density loss.
> Running helps.
> 
> This is a mountain bike forum.
> ...


Many triathletes do Xterra as do I. About 30% of my biking is mountain biking. It improves power output and concentration. I do weights a few times a month but find it excruciatingly boring and prefer time on my bikes or in the pool.
Most of my mtb friends have their bone density augmented by plates and screws collected over the years.
I bought my first mtb in 1983 and I have been riding to some extent ever since.
BTW, I still own my original Stumpy after all these years.


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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

Suns_PSD said:


> E- bike is a dumb solution that will harm your fitness AND increase risk for injury.
> Good luck.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G715A using Tapatalk


Despite all evidence to the contrary. But lets not let those pesky facts get in the way.
Unless your goal is KOMs on climbs, ebikes do not significantly reduce your fitness. For most people the single greatest improvement comes from time on the bike. E-bikes allow for longer rides with less fatigue and significantly higher caloric burn over time. More time on the bike promotes skill improvement and endurance. And ,lets face it, more fun.
By far the number one cause of sports related injuries is fatigue.
Although a large number come after the statement " hold my beer, watch this"


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

TriguyHI said:


> Sorry, I missed the part where anyone said we all peak at 30.
> I didn't start endurance racing until my 61st birthday .
> I've lost 50 lbs and am in better shape than in decades.
> But all that has come at a cost. Only the original poster can determine if the cost isworth it for him.


That was me, according to our docs and the med journals I've read, our ability to build bone density above the losses stops in our early 30's late 20's. Not that we can't build or repair bone density, it's that the losses on avg are greater. Why it's critical to build as much bone density as possible during the yrs we feel invincible.
Are there outliers? Yeah probably. Always is.
And I'm sure I can be proven wrong as medical science improves. Fingers crossed actually. My wife has a very high bone turnover rate due to endocrine issues and a pituitary that was damaged (necrosis) during labor. So she's on HGH and other meds to help with that, and yrly bone scans. So far so good. She also hits the weights 3-4x a week, doc agrees, every little bit helps. Though the HGH has been a HUGE factor.

I also think that generationally, guys over 50 had a very active childhood and young adult yrs, more so then youngsters today. Giving the mature guys an higher starting point in bone density. The 70's/80's were very big on wrestling, weightlifting, etc... By the 00's not so much.. Technology took over.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MOJO K said:


> I'm just assuming the guy who stepped on the podium at Xterra Maui a couple of years ago and loves training intervals already knows about lifting and stretching and diet.


Our son is looking for advice, and an earlier post suggested a lifting protocol. I simply suggested the other facets of conditioning as an additional source of adding longevity to his endeavors.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Blathma said:


> . So far so good. She also hits the weights 3-4x a week, doc agrees, every little bit helps. Though the HGH has been a HUGE factor.
> 
> I also think that generationally, guys over 50 had a very active childhood and young adult yrs, more so then youngsters today. Giving the mature guys an higher starting point in bone density. The 70's/80's were very big on wrestling, weightlifting, etc... By the 00's not so much.. Technology took over.


Hmmm...ever sample that HGH?


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

Crankout said:


> Our son is looking for advice, and an earlier post suggested a lifting protocol. I simply suggested the other facets of conditioning as an additional source of adding longevity to his endeavors.


We're just looking at this through 2 different lenses...you're always solid in my book.

One thing I'm sure about is that the injuries get worse as the speed has gone up. When I pick my way along old school tech trails I learned 20 years ago a get-off is like a fall and when I'm flying down new silly wide flow trail a get-off is a crash. It might happen less riding new bikes on modern trails, but crazy things happen when it does.


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## Blathma (May 13, 2020)

Crankout said:


> Hmmm...ever sample that HGH?


Nope... One, I hate needles... Really really hate them. And second, it would do me no favors shorting my wife of very much needed medication, it's also very expensive and highly controlled. Easier to get steroids strangely. Did I mention I don't like needles?

I've watched what it's done for my wife, amazing really. I get the allure, but it's still no magic solution. Still have to put in the hard work.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Blathma said:


> Still have to put in the hard work.


The right kind of hard work can boost natural production of growth hormone. For anybody, at any age.

Along with eating my last meal at 3 PM and not eating again until 9 AM, I've spent a lot of time on the trainer this winter coming back from what Covid took from me, and a lot of that has been on short duration, high intensity stuff. I've been riding very regularly for more than three years, but my legs have gotten bigger in these last few months than they've been since I was doing heavy squats and deadlifts in college. The rest of me is looking pretty good too. My arms have gotten bigger and I haven't done anything to them.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

MOJO K said:


> We're just looking at this through 2 different lenses...you're always solid in my book.
> 
> One thing I'm sure about is that the injuries get worse as the speed has gone up. When I pick my way along old school tech trails I learned 20 years ago a get-off is like a fall and when I'm flying down new silly wide flow trail a get-off is a crash. It might happen less riding new bikes on modern trails, but crazy things happen when it does.


For sure. I worry more now about injuries, too. The downside is that my hesitation makes the ride boring in some ways, as odd as that may sound. I'm hoping my time and intensity at the gym will aid in the prevention of injury and recovery if it happens.


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## Crankout (Jun 16, 2010)

Blathma said:


> Nope... One, I hate needles... Really really hate them. And second, it would do me no favors shorting my wife of very much needed medication, it's also very expensive and highly controlled. Easier to get steroids strangely. Did I mention I don't like needles?
> 
> I've watched what it's done for my wife, amazing really. I get the allure, but it's still no magic solution. Still have to put in the hard work.


I know; it was in jest. I'd be afraid to take HGH or 'roids for fear of negative effects. The idea of cutting down my recovery time is alluring though...


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

This guy has only been like that for a week or two, and I haven't gotten around to cutting it down. Today, because I'm sleep deprived still trying to bounce back from the upset that is daylight savings, and because it's in a flat place right after 3 really intense climbs in a row that usually take me near my peak heart rate, I just had my head down trying to breath and stay upright on the bike and forgot it was there. It was low enough that I couldn't see it because of my helmet and the visor on it, so all of the sudden I had the sensation that someone was trying to yank my head off of my neck.

You'd think I would have just broke free at some point, and I can't understand how my helmet or visor got so snagged to the point that it didn't let go, but it didn't let go. By the time I stopped trying to figure out what the hell was going on and realized I should brake, I had my head wrenched pretty hard to where my eyes felt like they were popping out of my head and my chinstrap really dug into my throat. I'm fine, but it hurts to move my head through certain ranges of motion, and it hurts to swallow and talk.

I just wanted to share this in this thread because reaction time, for so many reasons, can be slowed down. In my own case after a maximal effort, like maybe in someone else's case when they're racing, my neurological faculties were taken away for a bit, and sleep deprivation can slow reaction time and dull decision making. If I was fresher on this section and going faster I probably would have been paying more attention and ducked, but I wasn't. I've ridden that section hundreds of times over several years... I thought I was fine to just zone out for a minute.

If I was going faster, or if I had been someone else, it could have been a bad accident.

Needless to say, I took my folding saw out of my pack and got rid of that joker.


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## Ft.Rock (May 7, 2020)

Mid 60s here. I've taken some good hits, dislocated both clavicles from the sternum, severed a secondary artery in my thigh, etc. But here's what my doctor told me "I LOVE that you're 65 and you're coming in here with sports injuries. Most people I see that age are going to die young from inaction. The odds of you getting permanently injured on your bike are less than falling in the shower or off a ladder, so go for it." It took me a while to find that doctor as the prior 2 told me to give it up lol. I ride every day, and yeah lost 3 months in 2020 to a shoulder separation but that's part of the game. I did back off - I ride really technical trails but I don't set speed records. I don't really do drops to flat landings anymore, although I feel badly passing on them. At the bike park I'll hit tabletops and maybe a step up but I won't hit gap jumps. I sold all my DH armor and only wear knee pads, no full face and I feel like that keeps me mellower. Finally, if I don't feel it on a given day I'm good with taking a slow spin with the dog for an hour, ego checked at the door.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Since the pounding of running increases bone density, I wonder if riding rigid does as well?

My dad backpacked until he was 84; I hope I have a long sports career as well.


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## TriguyHI (Apr 4, 2020)

Ft.Rock said:


> Mid 60s here. I've taken some good hits, dislocated both clavicles from the sternum, severed a secondary artery in my thigh, etc. But here's what my doctor told me "I LOVE that you're 65 and you're coming in here with sports injuries. Most people I see that age are going to die young from inaction. The odds of you getting permanently injured on your bike are less than falling in the shower or off a ladder, so go for it." It took me a while to find that doctor as the prior 2 told me to give it up lol. I ride every day, and yeah lost 3 months in 2020 to a shoulder separation but that's part of the game. I did back off - I ride really technical trails but I don't set speed records. I don't really do drops to flat landings anymore, although I feel badly passing on them. At the bike park I'll hit tabletops and maybe a step up but I won't hit gap jumps. I sold all my DH armor and only wear knee pads, no full face and I feel like that keeps me mellower. Finally, if I don't feel it on a given day I'm good with taking a slow spin with the dog for an hour, ego checked at the door.


I would run from any medical professional who said they were happy to see me getting injured. For any reason. Supporting activities is one thing. Supporting injury is quite another.
You have taken showers nearly every day of your life and never taken two months off for a shower related injury. Yet you have had multiple injuries on your bike you have ridden far fewer times. The very definition of greater odds. Bike riding isn't inherently dangerous but gnarley rocky single track is. Lets face it, thats the point.
Falling six feet off a ladder to level ground is far less likely to cause an injury than falling six feet into a rock garden while moving.
LIving involves taking risks. NO risk, no reward. Individually we all have to determine if the rewards are worth the cost.


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## Juansan (Dec 30, 2020)

You don't stop riding when you get old.
You get old when you stop riding.


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## Ft.Rock (May 7, 2020)

TriguyHI said:


> I would run from any medical professional who said they were happy to see me getting injured. For any reason. Supporting activities is one thing. Supporting injury is quite another.
> You have taken showers nearly every day of your life and never taken two months off for a shower related injury. Yet you have had multiple injuries on your bike you have ridden far fewer times. The very definition of greater odds. Bike riding isn't inherently dangerous but gnarley rocky single track is. Lets face it, thats the point.
> Falling six feet off a ladder to level ground is far less likely to cause an injury than falling six feet into a rock garden while moving.
> LIving involves taking risks. NO risk, no reward. Individually we all have to determine if the rewards are worth the cost.


 LOL I don't think my doc is quite that literal. All my more serious injuries were before I had him, he has only seen shoulder separations, skiing injuries, tennis injuries, etc. I take my doc's advise as "live your life, you're in really good shape for your age and there is no reason to stop what you're doing" not "go sign up for Red Bull Rampage". 6' off a ladder can kill or paralyze you, really anything over 4' it's just a matter of bad luck and unfortunately I have friends who came out on the wrong side of that luck. Your last statement is absolutely true and it's something I believe people really underestimate. When we look at risk/reward it's crucial that we look at the risk side of the equation not just as individuals though - a serious, life altering injury impacts us but also our loved ones and anyone who would have to care for us, we need to keep them in mind too. I can get hurt in the slow speed rocks, but in the last 25 years I can say that every one of the more serious injuries I've had involved air time and speed. I sucked at landing them at age 40 and I would probably be even worse at age 65. So while I can and do ride black rated trails 5-6 days a week my tires stay on the dirt for the most part. Other people may be better at that stuff so their line might be something else, but make no mistake - we all have a line.


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## cat3shark (Feb 4, 2021)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


You are an inspiration to me (51) and as I age and have bad body parts I have started to scale back not hitting (big) jumps or drops. I look forward to riding easier trails as my time on the bike starts to pedal away, I believe i will still get the biking high staying healthy and on the bike then if I crash too hard and end it all together.

Stay spry and keep your wheels turning for whats around the corner.


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## Bondseye (Sep 30, 2008)

Congrats on going so hard for so long. You’re an inspiration! I gave up racing for that very reason. I still have fun and enjoy the sport just could no longer justify the risks involved in racing.


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## Paddyosonic (Dec 30, 2018)

I wish you well in a timely recovery. I hope I am still as fit as you are in 10 years time. I do think reaction time is the key issue to be aware of. I'm 61 now. I started mountain biking in 1984, racing MTBs in '87 and started working as a bike courier in '88. I'm not racing currently. (but never say never again) Getting less chance to trail ride these days, due to the pandemic and being city-bound.

I started back to bike courier work, just over a year ago, due to work shortages at my other job. I hadn't done courier work since 2004. Doing the food courier thing this time, which is actually surprisingly demanding. It's a lot more non-stop than 'regular' courier work ever was. I'm only doing four to five-hour workdays now, rather than the 10-hour workdays of old.

I've definitely noticed the decline in my reaction time. For the first few months on the job I found myself trying to take the same kinds of risks in traffic that I used to take when I was in my 20s and 30s. These risks began to result in very scary (and embarrassing) close-calls. I'm now having to remind myself to take it easier. Those risks, in my case, aren't worth the few extra bucks I think it will make me at the end of the day. I've realized, even though I'm still strong and fast, (and NOT using an e-bike) that my nervous system isn't that of a young man. My reaction time really has slowed down and I'm starting to become acutely aware of it and now forcing myself to ride accordingly.

I think you'll still get more trail riding in. Even if you choose not to race anymore, just being out there on the trails, you're far more active than the vast majority of the over-50 population is. Be well and keep riding!


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

59 now and a former xterm ‘participant’ - ‘racer’ would be an exaggeration. Similar position with crashes and injuries. Here are the changes I have made:
1. Reduced the downhill speed
2. Increased focus on uphill stamina and fitness, particularly in technical terrain, and
3. The biggest change: hugely more focused on technical skills: track stands, hopping, rocking, (small) drops and jump techniques. This is a great substitute for sacrificing high speed descents - almost a new lease of life on my riding.


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## Glide the Clyde (Nov 12, 2009)

Get an e-bike, dial things back, stop training for competition, but rather more for solid and skilled recreational riding, enjoy the journey more. That’s what I’m doing looking right at 60.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


Maybe you can switch to a fatbike year round or a plus bike. I am in Quebec and most only use a fat for snow/ice but probably more than half who use them 12 months are over 60.
Some call it R2R, it is short for a mentality, Ride to Ride tomorrow. Personaly i stop at 4 hrs daily because i know many accidents happen when we are tired.I am 63 and hope to ride an other 20 years maybe 30 with some luck.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

To the op, what bike are you on now? 

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Ft.Rock (May 7, 2020)

Curious; one of our bike parks differentiates trails between tech and freeride. Tech would be the old school natural trails, freeride being more machine built with built stunts, etc. Personally at this age I feel a lot better on the tech stuff, which is way more gnarly but also slower speeds. It seems like the folks on the freeride trails go a lot faster than I'm interested in going with a lot more air time. So even thought the trails themselves are a lot smoother it seems like there's more opportunity for a hard crash. Logical?


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

I don't know about that. I think the OP was going fast when he had his wreck, qnd yes, higher speed accidents can be bad, but my two most damaging accidents on the trail were during slower speed stuff; my recent lynching by my chinstrap still has my neck and throat messed up pretty good, and I once went OTB picking my way down some steps/roots. My shoulder was so messed up from that one I couldn't open doors, tuck my shirt in, or lift my shirt over my head with that arm for a week. It's still messed up now, it won't ever be right again, and that was almost a year ago.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NMBillb said:


> So just looking for any thoughts on this bummer of a topic. Here goes.
> So I am 70 now and have been a multi-sport athlete for 40 years with mtb being #1 favorite. I bought a fully rigid 26er around 1987 and rode around Slickrock trail on it. I'm pretty fit and don't mind training hard with intensity/intervals thrown in. In my early 60s I did the Leadville 100 three times. Have won age group at several trail marathons in my 60s. Podiums Xterra Maui in my 60s. So I've been around and have some great memories.
> 
> To my question, I've certainly had some spills, and shed some blood. But, nothing like the last few years. In 2018 I had a bad crash on Porcupine Rim just 2 miles from the end. Sort of lucky didn't knock teeth out with face plant off side of bike. Dislocated elbow, very sprained wrist, and shoulder contusion. I'm writing this now from a hospital after a crash in race Saturday. Broken clavicle and 9, yes 9, broken ribs. Doing better after surgery on the 5 worst ribs called rib plating. I will be fully recovered in 2 months or so.
> ...


give it up, hell no!! Time to mellow out some however, leaving mtb is probably not a good idea for the melon.

Three weeks after heart surgery, my bike found the job was just beginning.
Prior to that was the 5 fractured ribs and 7 dislocated. That incident royally pissed off my scoliosis as well. So, I can relate to the experience.
Today, am far more conservative but still like to haul ass and all. I take risks that might cause some instant rashes but breaking stuff is out.
I vote ride while you can.
Mend well.


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## DormerHarpring (Apr 1, 2021)

My dad started wearing a lot more pads as he got older, and started going a little slower. It seems to be working out well for him. He's still riding (or will be after he recovers from his hip replacement). Keep at it, and see you out there!


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## celstark (Jul 20, 2018)

There is a lot of really good advice in this thread. I’m dropping in on the forum for my first time (51), but I‘m also a researcher who studies the effects of aging. Changes in proprioception and in speed of processing are very, very real with the latter being the dominant factor in cognitive aging. Of course, we heal slower as well. 

This doesn’t mean we stop but we do need to acknowledge the changes. We can’t do what we used to be able to do, but we don’t have to stop the activity entirely. Mountain biking keeps you fit and helps keep you sane. So, the advice of dialing it back? Perfect. I wouldn’t necessarily go grab a gravel bike, as that would take away an ability to have the bike fix your mistakes. Suspension is a wonderful thing. Having a less capable bike and trying to do similar trails or even trails that are good for gravel but pushing them hard will likely lead to crashes. Instead, take tamer trails. Enjoy being out there. Maybe less emphasis on racing and on making a time and more on enjoying the fact that, at Age X, whatever that age is, you’re still out on the trails.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

Hi everyone. Thanks for all the comments! For some reason I was no longer notified of replies, but just got this one. My update is I am back home about 7 weeks post crash/rib plating surgery. Started PT last week, lots good suggestions from therapists pushing me a lot. I am still a far cry from former self preparing for race with hard 4 hour rides on the weekend. 45 minutes on a trainer right now but that is growing. The total loss of fitness was discouraging, but I guess surgery and a couple weeks sitting or laying around will do that. My thoughts are to keep riding the mtb, but no more racing. And likely do that riding on my dual suspension trail bike Spot Rollik with 2.5/2.4 inch tires and not the 29er hard tail with 2.2 inch Fast Tracks. Have to be slower and more cautious but just can’t see stopping altogether. Funny, in 2019 I had ended my brief use of bike parks thinking I was likely to end up with a bad crash following a kid around I had helped start biking who blazes it now. Only to crash XC at a high speed. Anyway, thanks again for your help. I’ve got several weeks more before riding on an actual trail, but look forward to it.


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## BansheeRune (Nov 27, 2011)

NMBillb said:


> Hi everyone. Thanks for all the comments! For some reason I was no longer notified of replies, but just got this one. My update is I am back home about 7 weeks post crash/rib plating surgery. Started PT last week, lots good suggestions from therapists pushing me a lot. I am still a far cry from former self preparing for race with hard 4 hour rides on the weekend. 45 minutes on a trainer right now but that is growing. The total loss of fitness was discouraging, but I guess surgery and a couple weeks sitting or laying around will do that. My thoughts are to keep riding the mtb, but no more racing. And likely do that riding on my dual suspension trail bike Spot Rollik with 2.5/2.4 inch tires and not the 29er hard tail with 2.2 inch Fast Tracks. Have to be slower and more cautious but just can't see stopping altogether. Funny, in 2019 I had ended my brief use of bike parks thinking I was likely to end up with a bad crash following a kid around I had helped start biking who blazes it now. Only to crash XC at a high speed. Anyway, thanks again for your help. I've got several weeks more before riding on an actual trail, but look forward to it.


No need to give up the 9'r, slow down here!! Sure, the spongy bike is great while recovery takes place and will get you back on wheels. The HT 9'r will figure into the scene down the line some but shouldn't be off the back, so to speak. 
The two things that I have are scoliosis and heart trouble. Those will not keep me off the dirt with my pithy singlespeed, nor the Wildcat! Nope, nada, not happenin'!!! Cause they were the individuals that brought my recovery to be.

Meanwhile, take the time to mend and heal properly and get back in your groove in moderation so bikes and riding will be a good combination in your future.


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

NMBillb said:


> 45 minutes on a trainer right now but that is growing.


No shame in that. One day at a time. Just visualize the growth each workout provides and before you know it, you'll be impressed with how far you've come.


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## NMBillb (Jun 6, 2017)

Is it ok to hijack your own thread? Sorry but I read an updated longer version of this article today dated March, and it put my whining about aches from clavicle or ribs into perspective. This guy got back home in December from hospital and was grateful to be able to push a walker to the end of his driveway. Younger guy with beautiful wife and three young daughters fighting for his life. Runner with big heart and global impact. I was reading about him and realized I was in the same hospital and ICU in Scottsdale after my crash. For one week. This guy was there for 4 months with endless risky surgeries. So yeah apples and oranges but I appreciate the expertise that helped me, and so far has extended this young man's life. So hope he makes it.









Rage On! Tommy Rivers Puzey Is Improving, But Still Battling Cancer


After struggling for his life for the better part of three months this summer while battling a rare and aggressive form of cancer, Tommy Rivers Puzey has been doing much better lately. But just as with the many races he has competed in, the 36-year-old Flagstaff, Arizona-based endurance athlete...




www.trailrunnermag.com


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

And I get pissed off when I'm out working on the road six days without a shower...

Maybe next time I won't get so pissed.


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## preventec47 (Oct 31, 2020)

I am 67 and three months post cardiac surgery and six months post broken rib from crash and my riding now is much more conservative these days with much less thrill and much more conservative as far as the technicality of trails etc. I now ride mostly alone removing the temptation to race and vowed to never ride in a group again. I remind myself constantly that the objective is "exercise" and not thrill seeking so I am very alert to any kind of irregularity in my trail route that could cause a crash. I seek SMOOTH hills which provide all the challenge that I need in terms of exertion without the temptation of a difficult pass at hi speed. On the hills that I ride, what seems different to me now is that I run out of gas aerobically ( breathing so hard I have to dial back ) before my thighs burn. I seem to recall it was the reverse for most of my life. I also now ride bikes with much larger tires that are heavier and slower but maneuver better and are much slower. I have finally accepted that the focus is no longer elapsed time but rather heartbeats.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

"what seems different to me now is that I run out of gas aerobically ( breathing so hard I have to dial back ) before my thighs burn. I seem to recall it was the reverse for most of my life."

I'm just a few years older than you and my experience is the exact opposite.


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## skibum1 (Jan 3, 2005)

I say keep riding as long as you can even if your in granny gear on some flat gravel road. Who cares. Its all about getting out and keeping things moving. As I said earlier, I'll be riding until I'm dead....


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## mudflap (Feb 23, 2004)

Man, can I empathize with the OP. I'll be 72 next go-round and have been on a mountain bike for 35 years. Back-country powder was my passion with biking coming in second for most of those years, but recently the biking has taken precedent. Up until a year ago I hadn't had a really serious crash worthy of hospital time, but July first 2020 will be a day I never forget. Just as Covid was winding up, I spent four days in the hospital after a bone-head high speed crash that left me limping back to my car and needing assistance getting the bike on my hitch rack so I could drive myself in.
Fast forward to today. I'm recovered as much as I will ever be, but I ride differently now. Way more cautious now, lacking the confidence I once had knowing how bad you can get hurt. 
Recently I find myself questioning how far I will ride while out on the trails, being satisfied to just make it to the next junction. From there I then decide to go a bit further, and may repeat this scenario three or four times until I finally end up at my original destination, but not after lots of consternation and doubt about if I have the strength and endurance to go that far. 
What I'm finding now, is what used to be thoughtless, care free riding has become very thought heavy, questioning of my ability and capability. It used to be easy. Now it is work. I still enjoy riding, but the fact that it now seems like work is going to impact the way I go into my 70's and what I think I can get out of riding. 
I'm not hanging it up yet, probably have another good five, if not ten years, of riding waiting for me in my future, but things have changed pretty radically as of late. I guess I can say that I'm finally starting to feel my age.


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## ddoh (Jan 11, 2017)

I was in a bad crash a few years ago when I was 67. You definitely lose some confidence and are more squirrelly for a while. Then you start getting back to your former self after a bit. Maybe not all the way back, but close.


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## skibum1 (Jan 3, 2005)

The pain is real....
Getting wider tires helps a lot I will say. I love taking my fat bike out still and just going for a cool down ride after working out at gym. Dont get beat up as much.


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## Freedivewi (Dec 20, 2012)

Mid fifties here.
Multiple injuries on my mountain bike over the past few years led me to sell my XC and fat bike and switch to XC skiing and gravel riding instead. 
I assumed gravel riding would be a safe alternative and scratch my biking itch, but I find it boring compared to mountain biking and miss my old riding buddies. 
My latest idea is to look for a new bike and sticking to easier trails that don't involve jumps. Not sure what kind of bike I want, but I do know that I want one that we keep me out of urgent care. I'm wondering if more travel is the answer, slacker head tubes, flat pedals (instead of clips), or wider tires will make the most difference. 
I'm open to ideas. Would an XC hardtail keep me on the easy stuff, or set me up for another disaster? Would a trail hardtail be better to work on my skills or full-squish to give me more cushion? 
After reading through this thread I realize that I'm not alone.


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## 33red (Jan 5, 2016)

Freedivewi said:


> Mid fifties here.
> Multiple injuries on my mountain bike over the past few years led me to sell my XC and fat bike and switch to XC skiing and gravel riding instead.
> I assumed gravel riding would be a safe alternative and scratch my biking itch, but I find it boring compared to mountain biking and miss my old riding buddies.
> My latest idea is to look for a new bike and sticking to easier trails that don't involve jumps. Not sure what kind of bike I want, but I do know that I want one that we keep me out of urgent care. I'm wondering if more travel is the answer, slacker head tubes, flat pedals (instead of clips), or wider tires will make the most difference.
> ...


I am 63 and around here most only use their fatbike for our 4 winter months.
Over the last 4 years some have started to use it year round. Most of them are over 55.
I like 3 in. so maybe you could try 27+ and 29+ either HT or FS.
Often it is about switching the focus away from speed.
I like about 120-130 fork so i do not need expert trails to have fun.
I find with 150 many trails are boring.
I enjoy both my HT and FS.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

Freedivewi said:


> Mid fifties here.
> Multiple injuries on my mountain bike over the past few years led me to sell my XC and fat bike and switch to XC skiing and gravel riding instead.
> I assumed gravel riding would be a safe alternative and scratch my biking itch, but I find it boring compared to mountain biking and miss my old riding buddies.
> My latest idea is to look for a new bike and sticking to easier trails that don't involve jumps. Not sure what kind of bike I want, but I do know that I want one that we keep me out of urgent care. I'm wondering if more travel is the answer, slacker head tubes, flat pedals (instead of clips), or wider tires will make the most difference.
> ...


I crashed during a gravel race and broke 6 bones, three nights in the hospital. And it wasn't because I was fighting for position or anything, I think it was just because I was tired. Around here, I very often have a lot less traction on the gravel than on the trail (doesn't help that my gravel bike is a CX with 32cc tires) and find myself sliding around a lot.

Two of my mountain bikes are rigid, which slows me down some when it's rough. But a couple of weeks ago, I got a good reminder as I came around a curve at speed and hit a big root and went down hard. A suspension fork might have been able to absorb it.

I switched to flats several years ago, I just feel safer on them despite having ridden clipped in for over a decade. I don't have slack bikes but a dropper helps, as long as you're dropped at the time.


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## rod9301 (Oct 30, 2004)

Freedivewi said:


> Mid fifties here.
> Multiple injuries on my mountain bike over the past few years led me to sell my XC and fat bike and switch to XC skiing and gravel riding instead.
> I assumed gravel riding would be a safe alternative and scratch my biking itch, but I find it boring compared to mountain biking and miss my old riding buddies.
> My latest idea is to look for a new bike and sticking to easier trails that don't involve jumps. Not sure what kind of bike I want, but I do know that I want one that we keep me out of urgent care. I'm wondering if more travel is the answer, slacker head tubes, flat pedals (instead of clips), or wider tires will make the most difference.
> ...


Yes, slack, wide tires and more travel would make it safer.

So would not jumping.

And i can't even imagine gravel riding, i would die of boredom

Sent from my Redmi Note 8 Pro using Tapatalk


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Freedivewi said:


> Mid fifties here.
> Multiple injuries on my mountain bike over the past few years led me to sell my XC and fat bike and switch to XC skiing and gravel riding instead.
> I assumed gravel riding would be a safe alternative and scratch my biking itch, but I find it boring compared to mountain biking and miss my old riding buddies.
> My latest idea is to look for a new bike and sticking to easier trails that don't involve jumps. Not sure what kind of bike I want, but I do know that I want one that we keep me out of urgent care. I'm wondering if more travel is the answer, slacker head tubes, flat pedals (instead of clips), or wider tires will make the most difference.
> ...


No such thing, bike crashes happen on bikes.

Wear pads, back protector, full face, bite guard etc, that will help.

If I'm gonna do something, it's gonna be fun.

Nothing pisses me off more than getting hurt doing something that's not fun, what a waste.

There's certainly a lot of angst on this forum, you all seem more like kids than old farts


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

rod9301 said:


> Yes, slack, wide tires and more travel would make it safer.
> 
> So would not jumping.
> 
> ...


The best parts are when the gravel ends.










A dropbar lightweight rigid bike is brilliant on smoother sections and a challenge on rougher ones.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

rod9301 said:


> ...And i can't even imagine gravel riding, i would die of boredom


Depends what you call gravel. Here in the Highlands of Scotland it's basically rocky unmade roads often thousands of years old, or 4wd tracks. There's nothing smooth about it.

Anything but boring, and if you want to notch up the interest, just take an inappropriate bike.

EG: old drover's track


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## Wheelspeed (Jan 12, 2006)

OP answered most of his own questions. My father is now 71, and was a very good moto-x athlete, but he admitted a couple years ago that, simply while driving a car down the road, he 'feels' a slower reaction time. Like, he saw a situation, reacted, but then his eyes told him he was closer to the car in front than he expected, or in a turn he was closer to the dotted center line than he used to get. He feels he'll have to stop motorcycle riding soon. 

So, like most of us, he has athletic ability, is in shape, and has the instinctive moves down-pat, but I guess at some point, we just start losing reaction time.

So, if OP is 71, stay to local trails, keep your cell-phone handy, wear all the protective gear you can stand, and just hold back x% on the downhills compared to earlier days. I'm 51 and already starting to step it back a notch because I hate injuries. Just don't want to deal with them. The saving grace is that it turns out to be very satisfying to put a well-done SMOOTH descent together. There are times when you can choose good lines, do the right things, and you feel you're only riding at 80% of your ability, make a descent, and nothing scary happened and you just know you had a fast time. Often times that kind of descent shows well on Strava. So you can change your mindset and stop being a hothead and just try to be smooth and safe and it feels very good. (Not accusing you of being a hothead, but I know myself I can easily become a hothead and have to think "John, slow down, be smooth and do this right...").


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## Ft.Rock (May 7, 2020)

I turned 66 Labor Day weekend, been riding a long time and I've racked up a lot of injuries. This year was a crash off a bridge, hurt for a couple months but no doc visit required. So most of the summer was spent like others focusing on riding for exercise. I set my goals on making certain climbs, which is a radical change for me as I was always a gravity whore. But a week ago I rode by a drop I used to do when I was young and stupid and stopped to just look at it. That night I had a dream that I was hitting it again with no problem, next day I went back to it. And passed it by. The drop is the same, I feel like my ability is the same, but the consequences just seem higher now. I rode on and hit a different drop, a smaller one with less downside and that was enough to keep me happy. Also rode a couple skinnies which helped to put the bridge crash behind me. First time I've been able to hit a drop without stopping, scouting, stressing in a long time, I felt like me again but on a smaller scale.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

I've busted myself up twice in the last year and it kept me out for ~3 months total and has crushed my annual pedaled mileage by >50%. The start of it was work getting in the way too much for me to pedal consistently as I had done in past years.

Now that I'm finally regaining some pedaling mojo, my solution is to back off on the TTF's, full speed urban and trail assault rides and tame work lol


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## KobayashiMaru (Apr 25, 2020)

Ft.Rock said:


> The drop is the same, I feel like my ability is the same, but the consequences just seem higher now.


I'm starting to look at everything that way the more I age.

The things I did just 20 years ago... I would never do them now.


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## Mitchbcool (Jan 3, 2018)

33red said:


> I am 63 and around here most only use their fatbike for our 4 winter months.
> Over the last 4 years some have started to use it year round. Most of them are over 55.
> I like 3 in. so maybe you could try 27+ and 29+ either HT or FS.
> Often it is about switching the focus away from speed.
> ...


Age 62 here. Just recently sold my old Ellworth Epiphany 26" and bought a Fat tire ebike with 4" tires and 120mm front susp. It feels much safer and has got me out biking again, heck, it feels 50% motorcycle( 57lbs and big tires, no it doesnt have a throttle). I went out yesterday in a light rain riding Mission Trails in San Diego which is in my backyard, it felt awesome. I almost gave up mountain biking, thinking its time due to all the reasons being talked about. But being able to ride out my garage on a fat ebike and being able to climb any hill in that park and still get a great workout, I'm still in the game baby! The fat ebike was my answer, along with a full face helmet, elbow pads, and flat pedals...

Sent from my SM-A205U using Tapatalk


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