# The best thing I've done for my riding...



## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

...in the last ten years was to start boating.

Rainy day, trails too muddy to ride? Go paddle.

Snowy day, trails too soupy to ride? Ditto.

Beat down from 5 days in a row on the bike? Go float something, somewhere.

Serious. Having a fallback interest that's still outside but completely complementary to riding has made riding so much more enjoyable for me.

Example: https://mikesee.exposure.co/reframed

Anyone else?


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

I do like the idea of boating in principle and here in Vancouver we have plenty of places. It does involve more cost (either rental or purchase), but it's a great idea. I can't run (knees), so I guess I could swim, too, but man, I find swimming laps to be one of the more boring forms of exercise ever invented.  Still, maybe I should give it a try.


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## k2rider1964 (Apr 29, 2010)

I would kill to live near a river where I could learn the art of white water kayaking. Every year I go to Durango, I tell myself I'm going to take lessons but just end up riding.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I love being on the water, one of my favorite things for sure but unfortunately it's not really an option as far as a substitute for riding. I'm not that far from some pretty nice river runs but they're seasonal and even a day trip is quite a production and effort compared to skipping out for a 2 hour ride.

I wish I had trails and year round river options in my back yard but I guess everything is a compromise.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

I've always considered kayaking as a near perfect upper body /cardio workout compliment to bicycling. I love riding my bikes on trails; I love paddling my kayaks in the ocean. 
For the most part, it's a very balanced practice that keeps me in sync with the ocean and in sync with the earth.


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## chazpat (Sep 23, 2006)

I have kayaks and a couple of rivers a 15-20 minute drive from me. They are mostly flat, which can be good as they can be paddled back to where I put in. One has some mild class 1 rapids and a couple of times I've dropped off a bike at the take out spot and then driven upstream with my son and daughter to float down. I only get out a few times a year, it is a lot more hassle than biking, but I always enjoy it. I'm also a trail runner.


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Our family loves to paddle. but we stick to oceans and lakes. Since the family doesn't bike much, we usually try to paddle together on family vacations. The nearby lake rarely stays frozen for more than a week at a time, but usually we are paddling in warmer weather.

The home water: Horsetooth Reservoir, Fort Collins, CO








Cathedral Cove, Hahei, New Zealand








Kenai Fjords National Park, Seward, AK


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I gravel and road ride to compliment my MTB'ing.


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## cyclelicious (Oct 7, 2008)

Many of us do other activities besides mountain biking to boost fitness. I'm always open, willing and able to do new things. One of my goals this year is try surfing


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## leaguerider (Sep 6, 2010)

Rock climbing


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## windsurfdog (Apr 5, 2018)

Windsurfing.

Actually, mtbiking started as a way to get me around days of no wind but now I've started enjoying mtbiking so much that it's actually flipped for me...but don't expect me on a bike when epic winds come to visit...


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

I mix things up in the winter with skiing and snowshoeing.

In the summer, I go backpacking, hiking, and canoeing.

With all that though, mountain biking is still number one for me.


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## jimPacNW (Feb 26, 2013)

I used to windsurf a lot, I really miss it and I plan to at least do some longboarding again someday. It was the times I was chasing the wind and got skunked that moved me back to the bike, driving 2 hrs and sitting on the beach waiting/hoping for some wind, vs driving to a trail where 99% of the time you're going to be able to ride. - maybe I was just a really bad amateur weatherman. I really enjoy mountain biking on the cold damp (or wet) winter days, I don't miss skiing so much either.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

We'll get some winter mornings that might stray near 0°C a couple of times a year and no rainy season so MTB is accessable pretty much all year round.


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## NPeak (Jun 2, 2008)

Does Golf count...?


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Whitewater kayaking is incredible for core strength. Every little movement requires it.
My son, who is WAY better now:




Telemark skiing is also good for core, but leg strength, and especially cardio, are off the scale
I got way better also in the last 7 years:




They're both passions. I don't miss biking in the winter and in a big water year, my biking is reduced.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

If you're an adrenaline junkie I'm not sure that even the most challenging downhill run can compare to kayaking through big water. The river is in control and there's no option to pull over and bail.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

J.B. Weld said:


> If you're an adrenaline junkie I'm not sure that even the most challenging downhill run can compare to kayaking through big water. The river is in control and there's no option to pull over and bail.


Surfing a sit on top can be adrenalizing. I surfed my Scrambler, an 11'6" kayak, and even got 3/4 of it barreled once. I also got flung off it like a catapult when it submarined on a late takeoff . That wave looked about as high as the boat. 
Surfing a sit on top involves a lotta swimming, so it's actually two exercises in one.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

J.B. Weld said:


> If you're an adrenaline junkie I'm not sure that even the most challenging downhill run can compare to kayaking through big water. The river is in control and there's no option to pull over and bail.


I have to agree. The only thing that trumps it, IME is flying fighters off of aircraft carriers!


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## Sparticus (Dec 28, 1999)

Off-road motorcycling, though I don't do it much anymore. Ideally my two wheeled off-road fun is human powered and after 33 years I still love it.

Oh, and camping. I love to camp. It's mid-February as I type these words and I've spent nearly 80 nights out since Labor Day -- all of it with the mountain bike -- in search of fun places to ride. And that's during fall/winter. Summertime is even crazier (I live in the PNWet).

My personal credo: the most fun happens on two wheels.
=sParty


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Lots of good rivers out my way. I have a canoe that's a good river boat that can handle a little bit of whitewater. I'm not a burly whitewater paddler, though.

I agree that getting out with it can be quite a production. A river trip is invariably going to require 2 vehicles to shuttle, or paying a river outfitter for that shuttle. Last year was exceptionally wet, too, to the point where the rivers were frequently unsafe for the kind of paddling that I'd want to do. As such, I don't paddle nearly as often. I do love it, though. I once did a 22mi wilderness canoe race (meaning, the water was slack and there were a number of spots where we had to climb out and carry the boat over trees that were blocking the river) in 108F temps in TX. It was hard AF, but a total blast.


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

Stuff I like to do to compliment/strengthen my MTB'g ...

Inside - drumming (doublebass stuff), lifting & rowing
Outside - road & gravelgrinding, paddleboarding & skateboarding


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Honestly, the best thing I ever did for my riding was to get rid of all the superfluous gears. One gets it done.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

woodchips said:


> Stuff I like to do to compliment/strengthen my MTB'g ...
> 
> Inside - drumming (doublebass stuff), lifting & rowing
> Outside - road & gravelgrinding, paddleboarding & skateboarding


I also play drums to keep my cardio going off bike!! Been trying to master the Apex album by Unleash the Archers recently.

I am terrified of water though - it is a claustrophobia/control thing - but I LOVE canoeing on lakes...not Great Lakes, but inland lakes. And mild rivers. When I was in Scouts, we used to do a 10 day high adventure canoe/camping trip where we would paddle the gear out to this remote island on a lake in Canada, and then stay there all week. It was a 3-5 hour trip to the island depending on the wind speed. The canoes were our only form of transpo, so we were always on the water screwing around or exploring

I can't do any of the crazy, fast river/rapids stuff though. Have no desire to do that...never have. Like someone said, the river is in control, not me, and I don't like that

I ride BMX in the park if it is too wet to ride, but I will also ride pavement in the rain. I love riding in the rain, so it does not deter me too often...just when it is lightninging


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## tubbnation (Jul 6, 2015)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I also play drums to keep my cardio going off bike!! Been trying to master the Apex album by Unleash the Archers recently.


Sweet, dude - nice to meet another drummer! I play a lot of swedish melodic metal stuff - like Evergrey. \m/


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## scycllerist (Jul 31, 2017)

rowing or sculling, weights and a little yoga.


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## jcd46 (Jul 25, 2012)

Curling


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## Pisgah (Feb 24, 2006)

I do a lot of cross-training. But, hands down, the best thing I've done for my riding is I quit drinking.

Edit: I'm only 48, so please disregard my comment.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

I used to be a hard core creek boater/big water boater, lived to boat, all vacations and moves were calculated on maximizing time on the water. After a few too many close calls with sieves and trying to drown myself, I got back into telemark and snowboarding, which led too all vacations and moves being calculated to maximize time on the snow. Then I tweaked my knee boarding, tore an MCL, and my time was gradually taken over more and more by biking...

So yeah, a second sport is great, but I tend to be a single sport kind of guy, all in all the time. Biking and running were always my defaults, but I stopped running after my body got beat down from doing too many ultras, so biking is my "last call" other than hiking.

I don't know that I need to ride every day, but I like to ride, and I enjoy a variety of riding, so if I could have access to riding every day I would be a happy camper. Being a single sport guy, I tend to lean toward diversity within my riding, so snow biking, enduro, XC, etc...

For my next sport, I'm thinking endurance biking 

Paddling is pretty damn cool, flatwater, surfing waves, playing on features, boofing rocks, dropping waterfalls, nothing is quite like boating except maybe telemark skiing and snowboarding. I'd still paddle, but out West the paddling is too seasonal, that and my feet, neck, shoulders, and back are hash from years of boating.

Biking for me is the single best sport for back and neck issues because I have five points of contact, I can adjust the bike to the "moment", and I can coast.

I also really enjoy my job as a psychiatric provider, talking to people and helping them with their issues is pretty rewarding, which is something I can do even when my back is trashed; pinched a nerve this week shoveling, ow!


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## BrianPetrySD (Sep 19, 2017)

Pool lap swimming, masters club workouts. The upper body and core strength from rotating and pulling, plus cardio fitness seems to jive with MTB'ing. I also run, but I find running boring and more painful, although necessary for good weight-bearing exercise. Swimming laps sounds boring, but there's so much going on with technique, balance and coordination to challenge and improve.

Haven't tried rowing...that sounds good too.

I have tried RipRow (up-right MTB-oriented rowing machine), and might get one. https://riprow.com/


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

I actually just thought of this...my "off bike" sport happens on frozen water...I play hockey! 
 I like frozen water because it is cold and still...no currents, no rocks, no sharks, no jelly fish...


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

chuckha62 said:


> Honestly, the best thing I ever did for my riding was to get rid of all the superfluous gears. One gets it done.


Best thing for my riding was a much lower granny gear on my first mtb. I would have had to give it up otherwise, because my knees could not handle the tall gearing it came with (26x30 lowest). It's steep here.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## rmac (Oct 26, 2004)

Running, gym classes/weights, skiing (mostly non-resort and infrequent) & road riding (last resort, right before swimming).


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## panchosdad (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm a two sport guy, backcountry skiing in the winter and mountain biking in the summer. Both get you the workout of going up and the fun of going down. Been riding the fat bike a little in the winter as a change of pace, but it's been snowing so much it's not seeing much use this year.


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## Horseshoe (May 31, 2018)

The older I get (turned 50 last month) the more diversified I get in my training. Last year I came back to mountain biking after an intense focus on powerlifting for the past five years. These days, it's mt biking, snow boarding, strength training, kettlebells, and jump rope. I plan to add a stand up paddleboard to the mix this summer to work on upper body conditioning and balance.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

andytiedye said:


> Best thing for my riding was a much lower granny gear on my first mtb. I would have had to give it up otherwise, because my knees could not handle the tall gearing it came with (26x30 lowest). It's steep here.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


It is here, too. The knee thing on an SS is not typically the issue people believe it to be. Standing to climb mitigates it. I'm riding 32:18 on my 26" Hardtail and 34:20 on my 27.5" squish.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

chuckha62 said:


> It is here, too. The knee thing on an SS is not typically the issue people believe it to be. Standing to climb mitigates it. I'm riding 32:18 on my 26" Hardtail and 34:20 on my 27.5" squish.


My ankles have got weaker with 3 months of focus on geared/seated climbing prepping for a back-country race vs my normal single speeding (32/22 rigid 29er) >80% of the time.
Can really feel them when I do take the SS out.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

chuckha62 said:


> It is here, too. The knee thing on an SS is not typically the issue people believe it to be.


Selection bias. Those who have knee issues pushing big gears do not ride singlespeed.
It works for you, but please don't assume those of us who do are just imagining the pain in our knees.


chuckha62 said:


> Standing to climb mitigates it.


Not for me. Any advantage from standing disappears at the bottom of the stroke, where I have to strain my knees horribly to avoid stalling out.



chuckha62 said:


> I'm riding 32:18 on my 26" Hardtail and 34:20 on my 27.5" squish.


That is THREE TIMES the gear inches I use on the steep stuff. I start to stall out just going up a gear or two.

Singlespeed is not for everyone.


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## Skooks (Dec 24, 2008)

Road biking. Because fitness...


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

andytiedye said:


> Selection bias. Those who have knee issues pushing big gears do not ride singlespeed.
> It works for you, but please don't assume those of us who do are just imagining the pain in our knees.
> 
> Not for me. Any advantage from standing disappears at the bottom of the stroke, where I have to strain my knees horribly to avoid stalling out.
> ...


I'll agree that not all knee issues are the same and SSing is not for everyone. I understand your reluctance. I've had my left meniscus repaired and was surprised how technique changed everything, for me. At 57 years-old, my knees are never a fore thought to my riding and they used to be.


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## NoelB (Jan 2, 2018)

Let's see...

In winter: ski 1-2x/wk, indoor rock climbing 1x/wk, circuit training 3x/wk, play keyboards, drums, and record my own electronic music, party on weekends.

In summer: slalom waterski every morning, wakeboard 2x/wk, wakesurf 2x/wk, party every day.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

chuckha62 said:


> I'll agree that not all knee issues are the same and SSing is not for everyone. I understand your reluctance. I've had my left meniscus repaired and was surprised how technique changed everything, for me. At 57 years-old, my knees are never a fore thought to my riding and they used to be.


What technique is that other than being about 3x stronger so you can push a gear that high without stalling out?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

andytiedye said:


> What technique is that other than being about 3x stronger so you can push a gear that high without stalling out?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


If you have a bum knee you should get it evaluated, it might be a problem that physical therapy could solve. As we age it becomes more and more important to do exercises and stretches that strengthen the muscles and ligaments holding our joints together. Cycling alone is pretty one dimensional so even though it's a healthy pastime I think most people will eventually pay a price if they do nothing else.


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## Carve It Up (Jun 24, 2014)

While only 48 and some days, the best thing I have done for my riding, snowboarding, skating, and state of mind has been...yoga. 

My wife has been trying to convince me for years, but have only started in the last year and am a true beginner. However, I feel more limber, balanced, and better centered all around; definitely notice it on the trails as well as other areas in my life.


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## plummet (Jul 8, 2005)

Various forms of kiting for me.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

andytiedye said:


> What technique is that other than being about 3x stronger so you can push a gear that high without stalling out?


For me it's having barends, a narrow Q-factor crank, and clipless pedals that won't release while pulling up -- I can and do at least halve the pressure on the knees if each down stroke is accompanied by an upstroke using the opposite leg. Factor in the greater use of back and arm muscles and you really can take a lot of pressure of knees. I certainly experience a whole lot less pressure on my knees than I get on my snow bike where the lack of traction keeps me seated and trying to spin a low gear. YMMV


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Carve It Up said:


> While only 48 and some days, the best thing I have done for my riding, snowboarding, skating, and state of mind has been...yoga.
> 
> My wife has been trying to convince me for years, but have only started in the last year and am a true beginner. However, I feel more limber, balanced, and better centered all around; definitely notice it on the trails as well as other areas in my life.


I love yoga...have been doing it for about 10 years to prevent the onset of age induced stiffness and immobility...I love the isometric nature of it as well


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

Ptor said:


> For me it's having barends, a narrow Q-factor crank, and clipless pedals that won't release while pulling up -- I can and do at least halve the pressure on the knees if each down stroke is accompanied by an upstroke using the opposite leg. Factor in the greater use of back and arm muscles and you really can take a lot of pressure of knees. I certainly experience a whole lot less pressure on my knees than I get on my snow bike where the lack of traction keeps me seated and trying to spin a low gear. YMMV


Ptor describes it pretty well, but one thing that mustn't be overlooked is your body weight. Face it, seated climbing is not taking advantage of your weight. It's all quads and from a seated position, it puts forces on your knees at a much less than optimal angle.

It might not be for you. I get it. For me, it totally changed my riding and any knee issues that I had (albeit minor) went away.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

One of my knees has been bothering me lately, sitting and pedaling hard hurts it in one area and standing hurts it in a different area. For me the only solution seems to be pedaling a little easier, or maybe rest it a little.

This is where the op comes in, cycling by nature can cause repetitive injuries and it's a good idea to balance it with other activities.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

chuckha62 said:


> Ptor describes it pretty well, but one thing that mustn't be overlooked is your body weight. Face it, seated climbing is not taking advantage of your weight. It's all quads and from a seated position, it puts forces on your knees at a much less than optimal angle.
> 
> It might not be for you. I get it. For me, it totally changed my riding and any knee issues that I had (albeit minor) went away.


I could never do seated climbing...it hurts just to think about that. I guess from years of BMX, it was natural to be "standing" on the bike...getting to lean forward a bit also makes me feel like climbing is easier...I feel like I using all of my muscles together for the climbing stroke...not just my legs


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

sXeXBMXer said:


> I could never do seated climbing...it hurts just to think about that.


Nobody does 20 minute climbs out of the saddle, I'd wager that very few make 5 minutes while standing.

Yesterday just for fun I tried to stay out of the saddle for a 8 minute climb that I usually do about 70% seated. I made it but it was challenging.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

It's a matter of what you're used to, I guess. We're all capable of more than we think we are.


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## mikeridesabike (Feb 16, 2009)

I was heavily into whitewater for about 20 years. I was good enough to run stuff like the Upper Gauley, but after getting the crap scared out of me a few times, I backed off and eventually quit paddling. I keep saying I will start back someday, but it never seems to happen. The biggest problem with paddling, at least for me, is that is is an all day time commitment. 2 hours to drive to the river - hour to run shuttle - 4 hours on the water - hour to run shuttle again - 2 hours to get home. That was fine when I was younger, but I don't have the energy for it now. 

My main non-bike activity is playing the trombone. I play at a pretty high level and perform in 4 or 5 groups pretty regularly, so it keeps me busy.


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## Radium (Jan 11, 2019)

chuckha62 said:


> It's a matter of what you're used to, I guess. We're all capable of more than we think we are.


I'm sure that's true, but when you get to my age, you better have learned your limitations, too.


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## fredcook (Apr 2, 2009)

The best thing I've done _for_ my riding? Ride more! Ride harder! Ride riskier!

What do I do to _augment_ my riding? Over the years (some have come and gone)... Jog, hike, jet ski, boating, golf, hunt, lay on the beach, drink rum, fish, camp, anything outdoors...


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> Nobody does 20 minute climbs out of the saddle, I'd wager that very few make 5 minutes while standing.
> 
> Yesterday just for fun I tried to stay out of the saddle for a 8 minute climb that I usually do about 70% seated. I made it but it was challenging.


yeah...I was thinking more of the short punchy climbs we have around here...long distance I am pretty sure I would be sitting for parts.

I also do "out of the seat" challenges as well to test my leg endurance.

I remember as a kid, we would take the seats and seat posts off of our BMX and ride standing everywhere. The seat either got in the way while jumping, or got trashed while bailing out of tricks...they just never got replaced


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> Nobody does 20 minute climbs out of the saddle, I'd wager that very few make 5 minutes while standing.
> 
> Yesterday just for fun I tried to stay out of the saddle for a 8 minute climb that I usually do about 70% seated. I made it but it was challenging.


I used to have a test piece that would let me know if I was ready for whatever the next big race I was attempting. It was an hour and five minute climb, and if I was ready (more mental than physical) my ass wouldn't so much as graze the saddle for the duration.

That said, I couldn't do it anymore -- just don't ride with that sort of intensity. Thus I agree with your first statement.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> If you're an adrenaline junkie I'm not sure that even the most challenging downhill run can compare to kayaking through big water. The river is in control and there's no option to pull over and bail.


Like riding the back of a freight train...

...that's jumped the tracks.

I can no longer produce the adrenaline I once did, so I'm learning to be careful with how much I bite off in one day. Paddling with likeminded geezers helps.


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

mikesee said:


> I used to have a test piece that would let me know if I was ready for whatever the next big race I was attempting.  It was an hour and five minute climb, and if I was ready (more mental than physical) my ass wouldn't so much as graze the saddle for the duration.


I have one that I can't do non-stop, out of the saddle until June or so. It's a 1000 foot elevation gain in a mile and a half. By June, I can normally hit it out of the saddle without sitting or stopping. Kills the quads and strains the lungs, but the knees are fine.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

I could probably do an entire ride out of the saddle at low intensities but I'm a pace pusher at heart and and at max efforts standing seems to deplete my oxygen supply too much. Mixing it up with 30 seconds sitting, then upshifting a gear or 2 to stand for about the same length of time works great for me. It feels like you're getting a break every time you switch it up. Terrain dependant of course.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mikesee said:


> Like riding the back of a freight train...
> 
> ...that's jumped the tracks.


I'm a complete rank amateur but I've hit some pretty big water in a little duckie and made it through unscathed. Never have I felt more alive.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> Nobody does 20 minute climbs out of the saddle, I'd wager that very few make 5 minutes while standing.
> 
> Yesterday just for fun I tried to stay out of the saddle for a 8 minute climb that I usually do about 70% seated. I made it but it was challenging.


We've got 45min climbs that I stand at the bottom of and sit at the top.
After 4 years of SS, I'm still having issues trying to put the power down seated on the "new" geared bike after 4 months.

It's funny after a race when someone comes past and says "Oh! That's why you were standing all the time!" when they finally click that you're on a single speed after battling with each other for the previous 2 hours


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NordieBoy said:


> We've got 45min climbs that I stand at the bottom of and sit at the top.


Ok I guess when I said "everybody" I didn't really mean it literally. Statistically you're still in the 0% category though, I ride with single-speed diehards and I'm out of the saddle practically as much as they are. For me traction is often the reason for staying seated.

In a lame attempt to tie this into this thread I'll just say that variety is good


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> If you have a bum knee you should get it evaluated, it might be a problem that physical therapy could solve.


This isn't a result of age or injury. Been this way at least 40 years.


Ptor said:


> For me it's having barends


I still have a set of these around somewhere. Never noticed any difference with or without.


Ptor said:


> a narrow Q-factor crank


Haven't experimented with that. How do you even find out the Q-factor for a crankset?


Ptor said:


> clipless pedals that won't release while pulling up -- I can and do at least halve the pressure on the knees if each down stroke is accompanied by an upstroke using the opposite leg.


I usually ride clipless.


Ptor said:


> I certainly experience a whole lot less pressure on my knees than I get on my snow bike where the lack of traction keeps me seated and trying to spin a low gear. YMMV


Seated and in a LOW gear, YES. That is what works for me.


chuckha62 said:


> Ptor describes it pretty well, but one thing that mustn't be overlooked is your body weight. Face it, seated climbing is not taking advantage of your weight. It's all quads and from a seated position, it puts forces on your knees at a much less than optimal angle.


All good until I get to the bottom of the pedal stroke. Then it requires bunch of force on a VERY bent knee and body weight can't do anything there. 


sXeXBMXer said:


> I could never do seated climbing...it hurts just to think about that. I guess from years of BMX, it was natural to be "standing" on the bike...getting to lean forward a bit also makes me feel like climbing is easier...I feel like I using all of my muscles together for the climbing stroke...not just my legs


How does that work?


J.B. Weld said:


> Nobody does 20 minute climbs out of the saddle, I'd wager that very few make 5 minutes while standing.
> 
> Yesterday just for fun I tried to stay out of the saddle for a 8 minute climb that I usually do about 70% seated. I made it but it was challenging.


I would have major knee pain for days or weeks if I tried to do that.


chuckha62 said:


> It's a matter of what you're used to, I guess.


I don't get "used to" pushing big gears. Wasted a year finding that out.
Perhaps some people build muscle fast enough to avoid knee problems and some ("non-responders"?) do not.


chuckha62 said:


> We're all capable of more than we think we are.


I have found the opposite to be the case. Everything is harder than it looks.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

andytiedye said:


> This isn't a result of age or injury. Been this way at least 40 years.
> 
> I still have a set of these around somewhere. Never noticed any difference with or without.
> 
> ...


Well, you're just a bundle of joy, aren't you? 

Do whatever works best for you and enjoy the rides.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

andytiedye said:


> This isn't a result of age or injury. Been this way at least 40 years.
> 
> Everything is harder than it looks.
> 
> Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk


40 years and you haven't had it checked out? Painful knees while riding isn't normal. You should either address the problem or resolve that it's something you're willing to live with and stop complaining.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

andytiedye said:


> I have found the opposite to be the case. Everything is harder than it looks.


Ah -- so it's official: The glass is indeed half empty.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

NPeak said:


> Does Golf count...?


Yes sure! Golf counts. I play Golf and walk the course most of the time. It's fun, you are outdoors, and burning some calories.

Of course Kayaking is a more intense exercise and a great complement to cycling. It can definitely make one stronger.


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

Yup, the consequences for a mistake on the river can be a life ender! Many places here, once you get on the river, you’re in the jungle with the only way out to keep paddling, no matter how bad you feel or how crazy the water is. And the variables on the same section of river, but on different days, are endless. Too many car miles for me to spend time on the rivers anymore, anyway.


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

It is exhilarating, but floating in a rubber duckie is a lot different that bring skirted into a creeker or river runner.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

JimmyAsheville said:


> It is exhilarating, but floating in a rubber duckie is a lot different that bring skirted into a creeker or river runner.


Well of course they're different, I imagine a nice kayak would more controllable, and therefore probably safer in big water once you know how to handle them.

My only whitewater experience has been in duckies. One of the ones I used was tiny and could turn super tight but it didn't have leg straps. That thing was terrifying, super fun but terrifying.


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

I was trying to be polite. The word I should have used is difficult. A lot more difficult.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

JimmyAsheville said:


> I was trying to be polite. The word I should have used is difficult. A lot more difficult.


That was not lost on me, I was trying to be polite too.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

chuckha62 said:


> Well, you're just a bundle of joy, aren't you?
> 
> Do whatever works best for you and enjoy the rides


I suppose you could call it "the stuck in New Jersey watching the freezing rain come down blues". Weather is better now but no bike here and nowhere to ride anyway. Back in California end of the month.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


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## JimmyAsheville (Oct 21, 2018)

J.B. Weld said:


> That was not lost on me, I was trying to be polite too.


Well now we're even! ?


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Not now, but when I was younger and did the road biking thing, there were lots of sustained climbs out of the saddle because we didn't have the gear range to sit and spin.

These days if I'm out if the saddle it's for a quick pump, I'm riding tech, or I'm going downhill.



J.B. Weld said:


> Nobody does 20 minute climbs out of the saddle, I'd wager that very few make 5 minutes while standing.
> 
> Yesterday just for fun I tried to stay out of the saddle for a 8 minute climb that I usually do about 70% seated. I made it but it was challenging.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

Because of El Niño, I’m snowshoeing a bunch this winter, packing trails for biking, also did some endurance hiking in preparation for going up Whitney last summer.

After many years of high impact sports with a lots of injuries, a bike is my saving grace, five points of contact let me balance the pain 👍

I might try some paddle boarding this year, though the endurance biking bug has bit, so we’ll see where that goes.

If I could still tolerate running, I’d be doing long runs, 20-40 milers in the Sierras, just love those long runs for clearing my brain.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The Upper Gauley is a hoot, we'd run it year round, down to 150cfs and still ran the falls, flood released as high as we could get without dying. Got stuck in a sieve at the end of the Upper Gauley as the water levels were dropping, scary stuff, time really slows down when your underwater with no way out.

My favorite big water run in WV was the New River Dries, now that was some big water, huge waves 20' pyramidal things that collapsed with you on top, a swim out there made for a very long day.

My preference was microcreeking, which is also the sketchiest stuff, lots of snags and strainers.



mikeridesabike said:


> I was heavily into whitewater for about 20 years. I was good enough to run stuff like the Upper Gauley, but after getting the crap scared out of me a few times, I backed off and eventually quit paddling. I keep saying I will start back someday, but it never seems to happen. The biggest problem with paddling, at least for me, is that is is an all day time commitment. 2 hours to drive to the river - hour to run shuttle - 4 hours on the water - hour to run shuttle again - 2 hours to get home. That was fine when I was younger, but I don't have the energy for it now.
> 
> My main non-bike activity is playing the trombone. I play at a pretty high level and perform in 4 or 5 groups pretty regularly, so it keeps me busy.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

andytiedye said:


> I suppose you could call it "the stuck in New Jersey watching the freezing rain come down blues". Weather is better now but no bike here and nowhere to ride anyway. Back in California end of the month.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


You could be using that free time to work on your sore knees.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Nurse Ben said:


> Not now, but when I was younger and did the road biking thing, there were lots of sustained climbs out of the saddle because we didn't have the gear range to sit and spin.
> 
> These days if I'm out if the saddle it's for a quick pump, I'm riding tech, or I'm going downhill.


I like watching old road races and even those fools running 42/19 back in the 80's were never out out of the saddle for more than than a few minutes at a time. There's always anomalies though.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

andytiedye said:


> How does that work?


Sort of hard to explain, but.....I get to a certain incline level, and speed/cadence, and find my self sort of leaning forward...chest over stem, but not like close to it...but in a line with it...it seems to balance the load to the middle of my frame, to the point where my back wheels are not spinning out, and there is not too much weight on the front. When I sit, I feel like I am dragging all of my weight behind me...I don't like having my butt lower than my hands I guess.

I don't use a dropper...never have...so it might be that my seat stays lower than most - again due to BMX maybe - because the only time I sit is when I am not pedaling, or I am on flat surfaces and just cruising


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## chuckha62 (Jul 11, 2006)

andytiedye said:


> I suppose you could call it "the stuck in New Jersey watching the freezing rain come down blues". Weather is better now but no bike here and nowhere to ride anyway. Back in California end of the month.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk


Eeeeek! That'll affect anyone's mood. C'mon back to the sun! Although, we're supposed to get another "atmospheric river" comin through. It was nice yesterday afternoon and I was able to get out to Annadel and clear the cobs.


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## andytiedye (Jul 26, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> 40 years and you haven't had it checked out? Painful knees while riding isn't normal. You should either address the problem or resolve that it's something you're willing to live with and stop complaining.





J.B. Weld said:


> You could be using that free time to work on your sore knees.


My knees aren't sore now. That happens when I mash big gears and come close to stalling out at the bottom of the pedal stroke. That isn't the sort of thing that would be worth getting knees replaced for.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

So my buddy, who's twenty years younger, texts me about Altai skis, says he wants a short fat ski for playing in the woods when he's out with the family.

So Altai makes these skis with built in skins or scale, they're as short as 125mm, up to 170mm, designed as an alternative to snowshoes. They can be had with a universal binding that's fits a snow boot or you can run three pin.

Well, he's an AT skier; no tele genes, so I told him it was a stooped idea. Not to mention, Tele is dead.

So I got to thinking about Mike's thread, and I was feeling a little snow bound, so I found a set of 125mm Altai Hok covered in dust under a pile of old tel gear, mounted some Voile Mountaineers, scored some new age Alpina BC 1575 boots, and then I went for a hike:

































I really enjoyed diving through the gear bins, driving around Truckee and Tahoe, piecing together this rig, all on discount too!

A little jaunt up the TRT south from Spooner Summit, view of the lake, then turns to the bottom, all in a days work for my little trail buddy "Wall-E" ?

... but I'm driving to Bishop tomorrow to ride my bike on dirt!!


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

The best thing I've done for my riding ... is start every single day off with a 2 to 3 mile run. I certainly don't run fast or far, but during over three years of running everyday I've not been sick (that's unusual for me), my stress level is lower (my job sucks), and I'm always fit enough to go off and do something stupid even if I haven't really trained for it. Younger, faster friend says "let's go to Moab for the weekend" or let's "ride to Fort Collins and back tomorrow" and I've not been riding like they have, no problem, I can go and not be an anchor or get completely trashed. I start each spring off in such better shape that I can quickly get into pretty darn good mtbing shape in short order. I've always stayed active year around and done multiple sports, but the "absolutely every day" thing has been a game changer for me. YMMV.


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## tim208 (Apr 23, 2010)

whitewater kayaking ran my life for about 10 years. And I do mean ran my life. Now more into rafting and multi day raft trips. My wife and I have almost completed the salmon river solo. Just about 25 more miles and will will have floated the whole length in multiple trips. 425 miles, Rivers to Ridgetops 365 has been my moto for many years.


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## trysixty (Jun 21, 2016)

Sex


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## escrowdog (Oct 26, 2018)

Peloton bike. Bought one mid December and have been endurance/power zone training all winter. Absolutely floored what it's done for my riding. First ride back on the dirt a couple of days ago, destroyed my PR on a loop I ride frequently, from 45 min to 38 min without really pushing or trying to PR. I **** when I looked down at my time as I was coming into my last climb. Then went on to ride another hour of singletrack non stop...other than a crash.


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

escrowdog said:


> Peloton bike. Bought one mid December and have been endurance/power zone training all winter. Absolutely floored what it's done for my riding. First ride back on the dirt a couple of days ago, destroyed my PR on a loop I ride frequently, from 45 min to 38 min without really pushing or trying to PR. I **** when I looked down at my time as I was coming into my last climb. Then went on to ride another hour of singletrack non stop...other than a crash.


That's good to hear. I've wondered about how some people find that sort of thing for training indoors. I haven't had to be off my bike THAT much this winter (and now spring), but I do find that when I ride a stationary bike I work harder when I follow an actual session, rather than just relying on my own sense of how hard I'm working (or how often).


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

My personal ‘best thing’ has been 80 days on the rollers this winter. I have owned them for 20 years, but never really used them...until discovering the Netflix series Narcos and Breaking Bad! 
I am riding faster and stronger now than in my thirties. Really helped with technical terrain as well (being able to just keep pedaling through chunk).
Highly recommend this if you live in snow country (I fat bike too)


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## escrowdog (Oct 26, 2018)

bjeast said:


> That's good to hear. I've wondered about how some people find that sort of thing for training indoors. I haven't had to be off my bike THAT much this winter (and now spring), but I do find that when I ride a stationary bike I work harder when I follow an actual session, rather than just relying on my own sense of how hard I'm working (or how often).


Well, the bike itself is very nice, not a crappy gym bike in any way. 175mm cranks, fully adjustable bars and seat position in all directions and the resistance is magnetic and extremely smooth. The resistance feels more like a hill than the having the brakes on, like a gym bike. All that said, it would be NOTHING without the huge monitor and classes. Powerzone training is a big deal on there and they offer hundreds of classes both live and on demand specifically for endurance training. From 5 to 90 min. long. And you're correct, the work you do indoors is worth far more than outdoors. No freewheel on the Peloton. And it's clipless pedal system which is paramount to building hams and glutes. Even though I ride only flat pedals outside, I find a lot of free power in those other muscle groups on my rides now. The metrics it tracks are very precise and you can train as you wish or follow a program. But the time flys by, 45 min is short ride for me now, I do 60 to 90 a day usually. A lot of "cyclists" poo poo the Peloton and you COULD certainly train using a trainer and zwift or whatever, but this works for me. I don't have to hook up a bike, worry about sensors, tire pressure, doing the same race over and over, etc. I just hop on whenever I have time and knock out what I feel like.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

bjeast said:


> That's good to hear. I've wondered about how some people find that sort of thing for training indoors. I haven't had to be off my bike THAT much this winter (and now spring), but I do find that when I ride a stationary bike I work harder when I follow an actual session, rather than just relying on my own sense of how hard I'm working (or how often).


I've had rolles, fixed traininers, even got a spin bike. Each time I use them a bit then sell them because I really don't like training indoors. I'd rather ride my bike in the cold, the dark, the wet, then sit on my but and spin while staring at a wall; I don't watch TV.

If I can't ride cuz there's not time or the trails are soup, I take my dogs for a hike. I have four dogs, they are so full of energy, it's a hoot to spend time with them; my dogs add a lot to my life.


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## bjeast (Oct 29, 2017)

Nurse Ben said:


> I've had rolles, fixed traininers, even got a spin bike. Each time I use them a bit then sell them because I really don't like training indoors. I'd rather ride my bike in the cold, the dark, the wet, then sit on my but and spin while staring at a wall; I don't watch TV.
> 
> If I can't ride cuz there's not time or the trails are soup, I take my dogs for a hike. I have four dogs, they are so full of energy, it's a hoot to spend time with them; my dogs add a lot to my life.


Dogs are great! I would love a pet I could take with me on the trail. This guy is pretty good company when I'm home, but I obviously am not going to take him for rides!


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## bitflogger (Jan 12, 2004)

We enjoy paddling and sailing. With age and injury I rarely do windsurfing now but still love our Laser.


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

dumped the gear bikes and now ride single speed, no suspension front or rear - - - I did get hydrolic brakes and a carbon front fork


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## escrowdog (Oct 26, 2018)

Nurse Ben said:


> I've had rolles, fixed traininers, even got a spin bike. Each time I use them a bit then sell them because I really don't like training indoors. I'd rather ride my bike in the cold, the dark, the wet, then sit on my but and spin while staring at a wall; I don't watch TV.


That's the difference in the Peloton, it keeps you engaged, it's not the same imaginary race on Zwift EVERY SINGLE DAY. I'm in Kansas, and fully agree, riding outside, even if it's a LITTLE cold is better than indoor training. We've had a rare winter here that shut down everything locally. We did travel south a handful of times to ride in the Ozarks. But if you want to ride 5 or 6 days a week, not much choice around here. I'd much rather ride a 90 min Peloton class and get some real work done vs. freezing my ass off outside on shitty paved bike path. Winter here sucks...not cold enough to have actual winter sports, but not warm/dry enough to keep the dirt trails open.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

I think it's going to be this...



I'm a single speeder from way way back, but a couple of wee medical problems lately have had me using geared bikes for a while.

It had got to the stage where I was beginning to think I'd lost the ability, age, health etc.

So I built this bike from my parts pile. A 29er repurposed as a single speed gravel bike, but I figured I wouldn't spend much time in the dirt so I geared it for easy spinning on the road with a 42 front ring and a 19 on the rear.

I headed down the hill from home to the main road, but decided to short cut through the woods. From there on it was mad time and the bike barely touched surfaced tracks for the rest of the afternoon.

No bike has felt so right to me for a long time. I lugged it over fences and stiles, followed all sorts of odd tracks, hammered along grassy verges, idled along farm tracks, attempted the odd monster climb, even drew blood from riding through overgrown paths lined with spiky bushes, and it all came back.

 

 

 

Yup, the best thing I've done for my cycling lately.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

Velobike said:


> I think it's going to be this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It looks like you had a lot of fun. Nice pictures too.


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## j102 (Jan 14, 2018)

The best thing I have done for my riding? Riding more.
And more upper body and core training.


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## str8edgMTBMXer (Apr 15, 2015)

Velobike said:


> I think it's going to be this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


looks like Scotland is gravel grinding heaven...was just in Ireland this summer thinking the same thing....


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

MSU Alum said:


> Whitewater kayaking is incredible for core strength. Every little movement requires it.
> 
> Telemark skiing is also good for core, but leg strength, and especially cardio, are off the scale.



I must have missed this when you first posted it. Thanks for sharing.

Nice all-day wave your kid was on.

Nice turns (and conditions!) you were on!

I got back into tele last winter after ~17 years off. Missed it more than I can say. 

Also didn't retain really any muscle memory for it. My mind knows what needs doing, but my body really struggles to execute.

Looking forward to this winter to claw back some skill and strength.

Combined the two last spring in a novel way. Very satisfying.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

mikesee said:


> I must have missed this when you first posted it. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Nice all-day wave your kid was on.
> 
> ...


Those Altai skis look perfect for that sort of thing (Koms, in the picture?). And the packrafting pictures are phenomenal. I must admit, I'm at the point where I'd love to do those sorts of extended adventures, but I'd be away from my liquor cabinet, bidet, forced air heating, warm showers......well, I really never was the man I used too be!


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

MSU Alum said:


> Those Altai skis look perfect for that sort of thing (Koms, in the picture?). And the packrafting pictures are phenomenal. I must admit, I'm at the point where I'd love to do those sorts of extended adventures, but I'd be away from my liquor cabinet, bidet, forced air heating, warm showers......well, I really never was the man I used too be!



Yep, Kom's. Every ski was a compromise over our ~100 miles of sliding. I really like those for heading out the back door in any conditions. If I were to do a traverse ~that big again I'd probably take something less girthy. Probably still with scales tho.

We did have liquor (whiskey anyway...), forced air (big bonfires), and really good food (see the vid within the linked writeup), but alas no warm showers. 

More and more I find myself less and less enthused about heading out on big missions if the weather is anything other than optimal. And, once back home, I am always, always so happy to have gone.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

The last couple years we've been getting into canoeing and kayaking (just lakes), it's a nice change when the legs need a rest.

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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

The best thing I’ve done for my riding is to keep it fun and varied.

Since I was a child, pedaling a wheel has been a constant, even when I was into tele and ww kayaking.

I have spiced things up over the years by riding muni, tandem, SS, etc …

At this point I might go back to muni, maybe get another tandem, but I’m done with tele and whitewater, too much risk of injury that could end my riding. I’m planning to keep riding well into my golden years.

The only other thing I think adds to my riding is traveling to ride in other locales, it’s fun way to learn a new place and spice ip your riding.


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

Best thing I did for my riding was moving close to good trails. With two young children I need my hobbies to be super convenient!


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

mikesee said:


> Yep, Kom's. Every ski was a compromise over our ~100 miles of sliding. I really like those for heading out the back door in any conditions. If I were to do a traverse ~that big again I'd probably take something less girthy. Probably still with scales tho.
> 
> We did have liquor (whiskey anyway...), forced air (big bonfires), and really good food (see the vid within the linked writeup), but alas no warm showers.
> 
> More and more I find myself less and less enthused about heading out on big missions if the weather is anything other than optimal. And, once back home, I am always, always so happy to have gone.


Tordrillo range, Alaska - the boys:


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesee said:


> I must have missed this when you first posted it. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Nice all-day wave your kid was on.
> 
> ...


Glad you posted that link here, Mike. It was a lovely way to spend 45 minutes. Such beautiful country and a great way to see it. Your adventures always inspire and humble me.

To stay on topic, I don't really have any alternate hobbies, just variations of the same but they have improved my riding experience. I picked up fatbiking and eBiking last year which I do consider different sports from my primary mountain bike passion, addiction, obsession and therefore improve my riding and make it so I don't burn out on riding my primary bike. They really open up a lot of other riding options/possibilities.

Fatbiking has also led me to pick up a couple other activities that are fun in their own right but are mostly means to an end: Snow shoeing and SnowDogging (trail grooming).

I do like to hike but I hike maybe 5-6 times a year compared to 5-6 times a week mountain biking, so not sure I can call it an alternative hobby. I also XC ski maybe 3-4 times a year and swim laps maybe the same amount.

I keep telling myself that I need to do more to work my upper body and core and when my lower back starts to give me trouble I'm pretty religious on the core exercises for a couple weeks, ha ha.

Stretching and yoga would be good, but I never can find the time or gumption to do those.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

KRob said:


> I keep telling myself that I need to do more to work my upper body and core and when my lower back starts to give me trouble I'm pretty religious on the core exercises for a couple weeks, ha ha.
> 
> Stretching and yoga would be good, but I never can find the time or gumption to do those.


Right?

I can usually manage _at most_ a few weeks of push-ups before I just get bored.

I tell myself that kayaking/skiing/riding is a good year-round balance of upper and lower body stuff.

I'll tell myself that as long as I can...


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

mikesee said:


> Right?
> 
> I can usually manage _at most_ a few weeks of push-ups before I just get bored.
> 
> ...


Aggressive downhill riding is also a pretty good upper body work out.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

mikesee said:


> Right?
> 
> I can usually manage _at most_ a few weeks of push-ups before I just get bored.
> 
> ...


I'm getting closer to that age when I will need to start lifting weights and stretching, in the meantime it's hike, bike, and ranch chores.

So my wife started working out last year, which is really weird because she is a total non exerciser. I asked her about it and she said:

"I worry about not being able to get up".

Wahahaha!


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

I swear by yoga...do it daily.


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## Rev Bubba (Jan 16, 2004)

mikesee said:


> ...in the last ten years was to start boating.
> 
> Rainy day, trails too muddy to ride? Go paddle.
> 
> ...


To know when its time to put the bikes away and take out the skis works for me. I love both sports and look forward to the change.


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## spaeth (May 24, 2004)

Ski, play drums and windsurfing. Cool to see how many drummers in here.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

KRob said:


> Aggressive downhill riding is also a pretty good upper body work out.


No kidding. I feel completely whipped after some rowdy descents.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

Another great workout is doing trailwork.


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## KRob (Jan 13, 2004)

Curveball said:


> Another great workout is doing trailwork.


Absolutely! And it does a ton of good for my riding in so many ways. And it’s an addiction/passion in its own right.


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## Hibikealot (Oct 14, 2021)

Best thing I've done for my riding........
More Riding,eating well and proper hydration.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

mikesee said:


> Anyone else?


For sure that makes 100% sense. I took up long distance skateboarding last year, took up trail running this year, and I am waiting for my surfskate to arrive now that I moved and I am close to a skatepark with nice bowls to ride. I run when it's raining. We moved 30mins from a ski hill so I'll end up getting a snowboard and doing that this winter as my GF likes to ski. Bikes are awesome, but it's fun to mix it up.


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## Parkcityavant (Sep 5, 2012)

Standup Paddleboarding for me in the summer has become that. And now Fat biking supplements my downhill skiing in the winter.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

mikesee said:


> Right?
> 
> I can usually manage _at most_ a few weeks of push-ups before I just get bored.
> 
> ...


It's true. I can't do a lot of pushups, and I should start again, but from kayaking I can do crunches until I just get tired of the boredom of doing crunches.


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## mtnbkrmike (Mar 26, 2015)

I will be the contrarian. I: a) work; b) hang out with my daughter and GF; and c) ride. That’s it. Whatever time I have remaining from a) and b), is devoted to c). Note that sleep is not listed…


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## jay_paradox (Oct 21, 2020)

I’m really excited to see how all this yoga I’ve been doing helps my riding. My mobility is easily better at 42 than 32. Maybe even 22!


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

mtnbkrmike said:


> I will be the contrarian. I: a) work


I remember that word, though it now makes me go all "Maynard G Krebs".


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## slomtbr (Oct 9, 2010)

Best thing I've done is bought an e-bike. A few years ago, I learned if I put two rest says between rides, I felt stronger, and according to my Garmin, I was faster. (Usually about 10 miles, 1.5k vertical. Almost all singletrack with quite a bit of tech thrown in.)
Now I can get on the e-bike during my rest days, and ride more. I've actually gained strength and endurance on my 'bio-bike'. Many weeks I'll get five days of riding.
I'm 61, and overweight (thyroid BS)


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

MSU Alum said:


> It's true. I can't do a lot of pushups, and I should start again, but from kayaking I can do crunches until I just get tired of the boredom of doing crunches.


What kind of kayaking for the core strength? River/whitewater, lake, off shore? I might need a bigger lake.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

ZX11 said:


> What kind of kayaking for the core strength? River/whitewater, lake, off shore? I might need a bigger lake.


Playboating in particular, but river running as well. Throwing ends (I'm talking the talk!) is super core strengthening, plus the dozens of on and off side rolls that follow!


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## ZX11 (Dec 24, 2020)

MSU Alum said:


> Playboating in particular, but river running as well. Throwing ends (I'm talking the talk!) is super core strengthening, plus the dozens of on and off side rolls that follow!


That would do it. Lots of effort in those. 

I likely do kayaking wrong for exercise (and I bring beer). 








Feel the burn!


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

ZX11 said:


> That would do it. Lots of effort in those.
> 
> I likely do kayaking wrong for exercise (and I bring beer).
> View attachment 1958541
> ...


I have a wife for carrying beer!









I know, BIG TALK!

But, it's on shore never more than a hundred or so feet away.
This was almost 10 years ago. I still suck, but now no one will videotape me.






But my son is good. Dig the surf boards!


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## Outrider66 (Jan 30, 2018)

MSU Alum said:


> Playboating in particular, but river running as well. Throwing ends (I'm talking the talk!) is super core strengthening, plus the dozens of on and off side rolls that follow!


Ain't that the truth? I just got a Dagger Rewind, so I need to develop a reliable roll again, then I can start engaging that slicey stern and "popping wheelies" going in and out of eddies.

I kayaked class IV-V whitewater for 9 years, up until 16 years ago, when I got out of it after 3 people I knew died doing that, and I dislocated my shoulder. I got spooked. I returned to paddling last year, got a Mamba, then a Ripper, then graduated to this Rewind. My roll is very rusty, so I try my best to not flip. I also have a full-on whitewater SOT kayak, and a canoe that is suitable for class III whitewater. With those 3 boats, I am covered for any type of paddling that I might want to do.

I find whitewater paddling similar to mountain biking. When you are doing it, you aren't thinking of anything else. Complete focus. If you don't have that focus, then you crash (or flip, and/or swim). It is very much an adrenaline sport, like MTB. It requires decent fitness, and good fitness makes everything better. You are out in nature. You are using cool gear. Sometimes, you are cheating death and laughing in the Grim Reaper's face. (not wise to push that too far, though). You have to know how to read rivers (similar, but more complicated than reading trails).

I am somewhat of an introvert, and I almost always ride alone. If I could easily run shuttle myself, on a river, then I would paddle alone. But that is far more dangerous than riding alone. So, I joined a paddling club, only for the shuttle reason.

I love whitewater kayaking even more than I love mountain biking. There is just something about rivers that I can't adequately explain.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

Outrider66 said:


> Ain't that the truth? I just got a Dagger Rewind, so I need to develop a reliable roll again, then I can start engaging that slicey stern and "popping wheelies" going in and out of eddies.
> 
> I kayaked class IV-V whitewater for 9 years, up until 16 years ago, when I got out of it after 3 people I knew died doing that, and I dislocated my shoulder. I got spooked. I returned to paddling last year, got a Mamba, then a Ripper, then graduated to this Rewind. My roll is very rusty, so I try my best to not flip. I also have a full-on whitewater SOT kayak, and a canoe that is suitable for class III whitewater. With those 3 boats, I am covered for any type of paddling that I might want to do.
> 
> ...


Yeah, and in a seemingly random universe it's odd how the sequence of events is always that you paddle like a madman, go completely anaerobic, exhale and THEN flip upside down!


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

My great achievement is I very early on mastered the first half of the Eskimo Roll.

Then I started paddling surf skis and found I didn't need to learn the other half.


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Outrider66 said:


> If I could easily run shuttle myself, on a river, then I would paddle alone.


Can you ride the shuttles?

I paddled 140 days this year, and rode (or hiked) the shuttle on more than half of those.

Definitely doesn't work everywhere.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

MSU Alum said:


> Playboating in particular, but river running as well. Throwing ends (I'm talking the talk!) is super core strengthening, plus the dozens of on and off side rolls that follow!


Whitewater boating killed my shoulders, they are shot now.

Great sport, good time


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## pauly mac (Jan 17, 2005)

Ocean white water. My alternate rock gardening pastime.


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## MSU Alum (Aug 8, 2009)

pauly mac said:


> Ocean white water. My alternate rock gardening pastime.


The best thing is that, when you flip, it doesn't burn your sinuses!


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