# If a picture is worth 1000 words, only a few words needed



## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Not much to explain. FWIW, the dial caliper, while not displaying it, is reading 2.3mm. Also, I'm not liking the appearance of the clamps, but it's a case of function over form.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Last two showing the glide plate installed. FWIW, 4 plies of some 12k ish carbon fibre. The glide plate weighed 175g, didn't have scale handy for the clamps. I know it won't last forever, but it may prevent a big dent. BTW, I also bought touchup paint for a Honda car and made sure no exposed aluminum was exposed. Also, the inside of the carbon glide plate was lined with N Style heavy clear background material for MX bikes...Carbon against aluminum with water = frame corrosion

Off to Alafia and Boyette for New Years to ride with our friend CLJ and his cool stoker on some of the more technical trails for a tandem in Florida. Hopefully I don't get arrested for leaving carbon fibres on every rock or tree we try to slide over.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

MTBR multi-load


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

MTBR multi load


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## TandemNut (Mar 12, 2004)

Ultimate bling! Does it make the tandem faster?


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

TandemNut said:


> Ultimate bling! Does it make the tandem faster?


Ultimate may have been 6-4 Titanium so I could make white sparks going over rocks...

Faster, well indirectly it may. Now I won't be so concerned about the paint job or dents and may not slow down as much for speed bumps.

PK


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## will-lee wonka (Oct 26, 2008)

Carbon Feebray is cool and all...but stickers is what adds real speed ;-)

Nice job.


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

How do you scrape the bottom of the boob tube without snapping the sync chain?


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## giff07 (Jun 7, 2010)

Nice job Paul!:thumbsup: carbon is cool, I suggest flames as stickers(lol) I use high voltage electrical tape to attach ours. It only sticks to itself and doesn't leave any residue. A Happy New Year to you and Jeanne. Also extend our wish to Chris and Monica. Hope to see you guys in 2012. We have had great riding weather up here. Sunny and 50. Have ridden the past 3 days. Pretty amazing since last year at this time we were waist deep in snow.
Ed and Pat Gifford
the Snot Rocket tandem


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## firedog62 (Nov 3, 2006)

Okayfine said:


> How do you scrape the bottom of the boob tube without snapping the sync chain?


There seems to be enough slack in the chain that the chains not a problem. I need to do something similar to our boom tube as we continue to push the limits of our skills and bike. We have a similar scrape from going over a log ramp. I like the looks of your material  Where did you get it?

Chris


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

firedog62 said:


> There seems to be enough slack in the chain that the chains not a problem. I need to do something similar to our boom tube as we continue to push the limits of our skills and bike. We have a similar scrape from going over a log ramp. I like the looks of your material  Where did you get it?
> 
> Chris


The carbon glide plate I fabricated from 12k carbon fibre and epoxy laminating resin. I bought an aluminum tube to use as a mold and vacuum bag molded / cured the carbon composite. The dry fabric and resins are usually easily available.

As for the chain, both the Ventana and Fandango (much less as it's mainly 100%xc ridden) have gone over logs sounding like a chain saw, obliterated dirt bumps burying the chain in the dirt, and on occasion heard the instantaneous kiss of steel to rock. So far there has been no failures but I'm sure someday it will happen.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

giff07 said:


> Nice job Paul!:thumbsup: carbon is cool, I suggest flames as stickers(lol) I use high voltage electrical tape to attach ours. It only sticks to itself and doesn't leave any residue. A Happy New Year to you and Jeanne. Also extend our wish to Chris and Monica. Hope to see you guys in 2012. We have had great riding weather up here. Sunny and 50. Have ridden the past 3 days. Pretty amazing since last year at this time we were waist deep in snow.
> Ed and Pat Gifford
> the Snot Rocket tandem


Maybe the sticker it needs is "Made In USA", your glide plate with flames is cool so I won't copy it.

I considered using a quality tape to install the glide plate, but preferred something strong enough for securing at only the ends. Last thing I want is a carbon pole vaulted tandem.

We rode some wonderful weather with Chris and Monica this weekend, They are great riders and fun people to ride / camp with. When I speak with them again, likely this week I'll try to remember to mention it.

Our house says helo to your wife and the other NJ crew.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Okayfine said:


> How do you scrape the bottom of the boob tube without snapping the sync chain?


Possibly a benefit of short legs for the captain and a 5'-6" stoker is I run the eccentric with the BB up. Mainly for getting the stoker bars up into proper position for her since the stoker stem is maxed out on the captain seatpost.

I also like the ground clearance for pedal strikes when cornering, it also nets more chainring clearance and also pulls the chain closer to the plane of the lower tubes bottom surface.

FWIW, for good fits on the Co-Motion, it also runs the eccentric with BB up.

PK


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## Lelandjt (Feb 22, 2008)

Why not use small chainrings on the sync chain to raise it? I'd think 24t steel granny rings would be durable enough. It would move the chain inboard and up and reduce weight.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

The carbon glide plate is for frame protection, and is stronger than the boom tube itself being not only 50% thicker than the tube wall, but made of a material many times stronger. This protects the frame from grinds and dents.

In regards to small timing rings. Yes we could do this, really though is it needed? We do not prefer to spend every ride dealing with logovers. Most times they are random trail occurrence and don't do much more than drag the chain slightly. When we do hit the boom tube, typically everything glides over with a minor "buzz" from the chain.

If we went to smaller timing chainrings, t would likely work but might have other compromises for the remaining 99.99% of the ride. It is kind of nice to have the versatility to feel like a mountain tandem for technical trails yet feel like a road tandem on doubletrack. Larger timing rings just feel smoother to turn.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Smaller rings supposedly also reduce chain life due to the tighter wrap around. We have MIddleburn cranks and the smallest factory ring is a 30T I believe. Homebrew will make 28T, but there aren't 24T options AFAIK. But in the conditions we ride, we've only had one sync chain strike in 6 years.


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## -Todd- (Jun 13, 2011)

I'd glue it on, with an elastomeric product that was harder than just some plain old silicone... Loctite 5590 is great for stuff like this where you nerd toughness, flexibility and good adhesion. Those clamps don't offer much in the way of strength when you're dragging the frame over the next obstacle...


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

-Todd- said:


> I'd glue it on, with an elastomeric product that was harder than just some plain old silicone... Loctite 5590 is great for stuff like this where you nerd toughness, flexibility and good adhesion. Those clamps don't offer much in the way of strength when you're dragging the frame over the next obstacle...


Can you explain why the clamps are not strong enough?

PK


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## stu4372 (Dec 23, 2012)

Instead of your clamps get a hold of some 3M 200MP High Performance Acrylic tape. I work on Typhoon aircraft and we use this to stick on metal sheets to the rudder as a sacrificial skin and is good for mack3. also good for sticking tables to the roof at work so good enough for a mtb.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Guys, these are the problems of using elastomeric adhesive or tapes. 

When the part was fabricated, it was molded on a tube of the same diameter, not accounting for the thickness of powdercoat.

With the amount of wrap, using a tape would not allow the glide plate to seat or nest fully onto the frame prior to the tape preventing any movement. Envision a shape of the letter "C" being placed onto a round tube.

As for gluing it on, yes I could do that, but why. It will be difficult to remove when needed. In order to have failure with the clamps, either the clamps need to loosen and slide a lot, which is easily noticed, or the clamps must loosen and fall off which is unlikely since these are worm clamps on a solid object, or the clamps must break and fall off.

As I mentioned, the glide plate is there for the occasional up and overs. If I was that concerned, threaded platenuts would be fed into the tubes interior and secured with blind rivets (assuming there is access via the captain BB shell). Then titanium flush screws would secure the glide plate to the frame.

I appreciate the concern but don't wish to overbuild or overthink this, the one real downside is just appearance. Next time the eccentric is removed, I'll have a look and consider using the titanium fasteners.

PK


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