# Which 24" full suspension bike - money no object!



## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

The choices are:

Trek Fuel Ex Jr $1979.99 Privacy information ? Trek Bicycle

Norco Fluid 4.3 $1485 https://www.norco.com/bikes/mountain/trail/fluid/fluid-43/

Transition Ripcord $1699 https://www.transitionbikes.com/2015/Bikes_Ripcord.cfm

Commencal Supreme 24 $2045 Supreme 24 | Commencal 2015

Lil Shredder Phenom $3495 Kids DH Bike | Lil Shredder Phenom | Lil Shredder Bikes

Propain Yuma $1875 Youth bike YUMA DH / PROPAIN Bikes

Specialized Camber Grom $2200 Specialized Bicycle Components

Kona Stinky 24 $2500 (?) KONA BIKES | 2015 BIKES | KIDS' | STINKY 24

If I've missed any let me know.

Now imagine money, isn't no object and rules out the Lil Shredder. Which bike would you go for?

I still can't afford any of them, but I can dream...

***edited to add the Kona***


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## kamsbry (Jul 26, 2009)

Went with the Norco. My kid is happy with it and her older sister used it for the first DH race of the season since her bike was not quite ready.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

I like what the Propain and the Specialized Camber Grom have to offer as far as upgrading to 26" wheels. I know it doesn't do much to alter the geometry, but it buys you another year or two IMO. The propain is also offered in DH and Enduro setups.

I think that price you quoted on the Propain is in Euro though....pretty sure its just over 2k in the US dollar. But I've been wrong before...

That being said...I REALLY like the looks of the Little Shredder (obviously), the Commencal, and the Propain the best. I'd feel bad telling my 10yo to pedal uphill with them though.


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

I am going to stick with the commencal supreme 24, frame only with a high end custom build.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Something about that Transition makes me think that would be good pick for my son.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

The price in Euros is 1649 for the DH version.

I really like the Propain, and as you say you can upgrade it to 26"

I am looking for something that can be pedalled uphill too - my son has a 2007 Norco B-line which weighs 15kg+ and is not a good bike for pedalling!

The Transition looks totally awesome too. Though my son's Norco has 140mm travel and I think he would be sad to go down to 100mm


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## Cinq (Jan 2, 2003)

You forgot the Kona Stinky 24 in your overview. My 12 year old now rides a 24" Kona Kula with the front suspension upgraded to a 26" RockShox 100 mm. I have asked my LBS to let me know when he has a Camber Grom in his store to check it out. It does seem the chain stays are very long on that one though. From what I've seen and read the Ripcord does look great...

Kind regards,

Clemens


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

The thing about getting the ones that convert to 26 inch wheels is that the chainstays are very long for a 24 inch bike. To me, if you're the kind of dad that is going to spend that kind of money on your kids bike, do it right, get a purpose built 24 with the geo that should be on a 24 inch bike.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> The thing about getting the ones that convert to 26 inch wheels is that the chainstays are very long for a 24 inch bike. To me, if you're the kind of dad that is going to spend that kind of money on your kids bike, do it right, get a purpose built 24 with the geo that should be on a 24 inch bike.


The rear suspension arm is changed out on the Propain with the upgrade kit.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> The rear suspension arm is changed out on the Propain with the upgrade kit.


It's just a drop outr change, not the complete chainstay.
It still starts with a 423mm CS, there are 29ers FS bikes with shorter, so I still think that's a long CS for a kids 24 inch wheeled bike.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> It's just a drop outr change, not the complete chainstay.
> It still starts with a 423mm CS, there are 29ers FS bikes with shorter, so I still think that's a long CS for a kids 24 inch wheeled bike.


Damn. I was under the impression that it came with a shorter chain stay with the 24s.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

There are so few decent kids bike options out there....we should have a sticky with the spec/geo of each one in this forum for quick reference.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Yeah I did think the chainstays looked long on the Propain. 

Sorry for missing out the Stinky!


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

ProjectMayhem said:


> Yeah I did think the chainstays looked long on the Propain.
> 
> Sorry for missing out the Stinky!


My 9yo loved the stinky last year at the bike park. It's so heavy though....I'm not sure you could lighten it enough to make it usable for anything but DH.

I'd like to hear from those that think you could though, because I can get last year's Stinky dirt cheap.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> My 9yo loved the stinky last year at the bike park. It's so heavy though....I'm not sure you could lighten it enough to make it usable for anything but DH.
> 
> I'd like to hear from those that think you could though, because I can get last year's Stinky dirt cheap.


I had a Kona Shred 2.0 and looked at the 2.4 before buying the Marin. I personally just think Kona builds a beefy frame for their kids line. I really don't think you're going to get a Stinky to be as light as some of the others.

If you can fins a used Scott RC, those can built pretty light.


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

TwoTone said:


> I had a Kona Shred 2.0 and looked at the 2.4 before buying the Marin. I personally just think Kona builds a beefy frame for their kids line. I really don't think you're going to get a Stinky to be as light as some of the others.
> 
> If you can fins a used Scott RC, those can built pretty light.


I picked up a 2007 (Edit:2006) Stinky 24 for my son just before Chistmas and have been making a few changes to lighten it up. it's now just under 30 lbs and I may be able to shave a bit more off. Not super light but much better than stock....

*update- just finished setting up his new wheels (ACE20/Novatec hubs) ghetto tubeless and it's down to 28.4 lbs on a bathroom scale not much more in major weight savings to be found I don't think. Have swapped the wheels/tires, cranks, fork, shock, and brakes.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

gtrguy2 said:


> I picked up a 2007 Stinky 24 for my son just before Chistmas and have been making a few changes to lighten it up. it's now just under 30 lbs and I may be able to shave a bit more off. Not super light but much better than stock....
> 
> *update- just finished setting up his new wheels (ACE20/Novatec hubs) ghetto tubeless and it's down to 28.4 lbs on a bathroom scale not much more in major weight savings to be found I don't think. Have swapped the wheels/tires, cranks, fork, shock, and brakes.


That's about what I figured you'd get out of the stinky. That thing is a tank with stock config. 28.4...how does it pedal for a kid? No change to the gearing?


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

tomson75 said:


> That's about what I figured you'd get out of the stinky. That thing is a tank with stock config. 28.4...how does it pedal for a kid? No change to the gearing?


Pedals great for him at 9 years old- kept the stock 2x setup (22/32) and he pedals it just fine... after he rides for a while I might look at going 1x if he isn't using the granny ring which so far he isn't. Might drop close to another pound without the shifter/derailleur/chainring but I would need to add some sort of chain guide.


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## sealcove (Apr 26, 2004)

Didn't realize that this kind of market existed. How heavy are these bikes? For my youngster, weight and low gearing will matter most probably. The FS aspect is fun... I'm partial to all the Horst-Link versions and their derivatives ... but I suspect any FS design may likely add weight to the setup versus a hard-tail. Basically, I'm looking for a weight-weenie 24". Any thoughts and recommendations on this?


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

sealcove said:


> Didn't realize that this kind of market existed. How heavy are these bikes? For my youngster, weight and low gearing will matter most probably. The FS aspect is fun... I'm partial to all the Horst-Link versions and their derivatives ... but I suspect any FS design may likely add weight to the setup versus a hard-tail. Basically, I'm looking for a weight-weenie 24". Any thoughts and recommendations on this?


You're not going to find a weight weenie FS 24....at least one that is mass produced. Most of, if not all, the bikes in this thread are going to weigh north of 29lbs. Some, like the Stinky, are probably going to be closer to 35lbs.

That being said, the trend towards building high end kids bikes likely means that we'll be seeing lighter options in the near future. Major players like Trek jumping into the fold will put pressure on the rest of the market. Hopefully.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

sealcove said:


> Didn't realize that this kind of market existed. How heavy are these bikes? For my youngster, weight and low gearing will matter most probably.


Best stick to a hardtail then if you think your rides will involve climbing at all. Full suspension (especially 24") will always be many pounds heavier and really stink going uphill unless you are willing to throw a lot of cash at a FS bike to take the weight down. Many of the FS bikes are already 1x with crappy gearing. Look close at the spec, a lot of 2000 gram forks, 1x drivetrains and heavy wheels/components.


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## geraldooka (Jul 3, 2012)

*Weight's crucial but in BC so is full suspension once you reach a certain level.*

Light is important particularly for the younger ones. My little man is 8 now but small, barely 43lbs and has been that weight for a while. He started riding trails with me at 6 and is now a very strong single track ripper grazing black runs with me in BC thats saying something. His 20" bike was the lightest I could find at the time that could take the pounding of real trail riding and its down around 22lbs now with a modded spring fork and big cog among many other mods to make it more trail worthy. At this point the only thing holding him back is real suspension, full sus around here is at least as important as weight. I can't wait to get him into something like the Transition on a full sus he'll kill it out there and more importantly have more fun!

One of our recent rides in Cumberland, yes he had a good time. :thumbsup:


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

Anyone else hear a rumor about a 24/26 FS option coming from Trek? I heard that is was being released soon, but I have my doubts seeing as how they just put out the Fuel EX Jr. 

I didn't get any details, other than that it was designed to be compatible with 24 and 26" wheels. My guess is that it's similar to the Propain and Specialized options with replaceable dropouts.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> Anyone else hear a rumor about a 24/26 FS option coming from Trek? I heard that is was being released soon, but I have my doubts seeing as how they just put out the Fuel EX Jr.
> 
> I didn't get any details, other than that it was designed to be compatible with 24 and 26" wheels. My guess is that it's similar to the Propain and Specialized options with replaceable dropouts.


Anything that can take 24 and 26 wheels will have terrible CS lengths as a 24 inch bike.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

TwoTone said:


> Anything that can take 24 and 26 wheels will have terrible CS lengths as a 24 inch bike.


So then you are saying 26" wheels in a 29er bike is a bad idea? ( sarcasm )


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> I like what the Propain and the Specialized Camber Grom have to offer as far as upgrading to 26" wheels. I know it doesn't do much to alter the geometry, but it buys you another year or two IMO.
> 
> I'd feel bad telling my 10yo to pedal uphill with them though.


I think the "buying another year or two" idea is the wrong one. At what expense? Your kid riding a bike with super long chainstays and crappy geometry for what, 4 or 5 years theoretically?

I wouldn't wish my kids riding any 28 pound FS bike uphill, let alone one designed for 24/26" wheels.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

GSJ1973 said:


> I think the "buying another year or two" idea is the wrong one. At what expense? Your kid riding a bike with super long chainstays and crappy geometry for what, 4 or 5 years theoretically?
> 
> I wouldn't wish my kids riding any 28 pound FS bike uphill, let alone one designed for 24/26" wheels.


Again...not everyone can afford to accommodate the "right way". I have three kids. To buy each one a high end bike that perfectly fits their ideal geometry every two years isn't going to happen.

I get what you're saying, but you have to pick your poison. At this point, I'm leaning towards getting a 24" like the Ripcord, or a 26" like the new Trek. If I go with the Trek, he's going to limit himself in the bike park. If I go with the Transition, he'll have a harder time pedaling uphill and he will likely be a little big for it in a year or two. Whatever deficiencies each bike has will have to suffice until I can afford (i.e. convince my wife) we can buy another expensive ass bike for a kid.


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## dlc (May 27, 2009)

My sons Fluid 4.3 came in today. Nice bike. Stock build was 27#'s but a lot of the components are very heavy. It is getting carbon bars and seatpost, hope pro2 hubs laced to crest rims, Rockshox Sid fork, RF NW 30t, clutch derailer, and going tubeless. I think I can get it down to 22-23#'s.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

dlc said:


> My sons Fluid 4.3 came in today. Nice bike. Stock build was 27#'s but a lot of the components are very heavy. It is getting carbon bars and seatpost, hope pro2 hubs laced to crest rims, Rockshox Sid fork, RF NW 30t, clutch derailer, and going tubeless. I think I can get it down to 22-23#'s.


I'm happy that more manufactures are making nice kids frames. What pisses me off is to me the crappy way they are doing it. If you're willing to lay out that kind of money on a child's bike, then they know you aren't going to leave it with the crappy components. All of them should have just offered frames.

These bikes have a much shorter life span, so it's not like buying a lower spec adult bike and upgrading as things break.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> I'm happy that more manufactures are making nice kids frames. What pisses me off is to me the crappy way they are doing it. If you're willing to lay out that kind of money on a child's bike, then they know you aren't going to leave it with the crappy components. All of them should have just offered frames.
> 
> These bikes have a much shorter life span, so it's not like buying a lower spec adult bike and upgrading as things break.


I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure how else they could do it. They know they aren't going to sell many kids bikes at the same price point as an adult bike, so why would they build them with the same spec? Most adult bikes with good builds are anywhere from 3-8K these days. These bikes mentioned here are all below 2k. Where do they cut cost? How do they make money if they're using the same components that they're using on the adult bikes? If they do use the same high end components, how do the justify the cost of building them when they'll clearly sell far fewer due to the fact that parents aren't going to spend that type of coin on a bike that will be used for 2-3 years?

IMO, the fact that they're building them with the correct geo, and that they're now offering FS bikes with suspensions that actually work is a huge step in the right direction.

Luckily for me, I'm looking to buy for my oldest right now, so I'll be able to hand it down to two more kids to get my money's worth.

Most of these kids don't know the difference in specs. If the fork moves when they jump, they're happy. If the bike goes uphill when the need it to, they're happy. If the kid progresses fast enough to warrant the need for high end components and carbon seatposts, well...that's a good problem to have.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure how else they could do it. They know they aren't going to sell many kids bikes at the same price point as an adult bike, so why would they build them with the same spec? Most adult bikes with good builds are anywhere from 3-8K these days. These bikes mentioned here are all below 2k. Where do they cut cost? How do they make money if they're using the same components that they're using on the adult bikes? If they do use the same high end components, how do the justify the cost of building them when they'll clearly sell far fewer due to the fact that parents aren't going to spend that type of coin on a bike that will be used for 2-3 years?
> 
> IMO, the fact that they're building them with the correct geo, and that they're now offering FS bikes with suspensions that actually work is a huge step in the right direction.
> 
> ...


To me it's about weight and unfortunately to lose it you have to get higher end parts. A 27 lb 24 inch bike for a 70lb kid is like me riding a 77 lb bike.

Again, it wouldn't kill them to offer frame only and low spec bikes.


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

I just took my 8 year old for back to back rides on a norco fluid 4.3 and a spawn shojo.

Both are brilliant bikes. He wants the Norco but I am getting him the Spawn.

The spawn is quite a bit easier for him to throw around. This could be because it weighed 3.6 lbs lighter (Norco was 28.8 lbs vs 25.2lbs) but it also has super short chainstays compared to the Norco.

The spawn has beefy tires that i will run tubeless so it will take the edge off.

My son was simply more confident on the spawn


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

crankpuller said:


> I just took my 8 year old for back to back rides on a norco fluid 4.3 and a spawn shojo.
> 
> Both are brilliant bikes. He wants the Norco but I am getting him the Spawn.
> 
> ...


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## crankpuller (Feb 27, 2004)

crankpuller said:


> View attachment 995697
> View attachment 995698


Spawn is also $650 cheaper - however that didn't factor into the decision


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> Again...not everyone can afford to accommodate the "right way". I have three kids. To buy each one a high end bike that perfectly fits their ideal geometry every two years isn't going to happen.
> 
> I get what you're saying, but you have to pick your poison. At this point, I'm leaning towards getting a 24" like the Ripcord, or a 26" like the new Trek. If I go with the Trek, he's going to limit himself in the bike park. If I go with the Transition, he'll have a harder time pedaling uphill and he will likely be a little big for it in a year or two. Whatever deficiencies each bike has will have to suffice until I can afford (i.e. convince my wife) we can buy another expensive ass bike for a kid.


If I had three kids, I would buy the best 24" I could afford and pay it forward when the next 2 kids can ride a sweet bike. That will maximize your investment, but maybe you have some overlap (kids same size) on 24" so you have to do what is best for you.



tomson75 said:


> IMO, the fact that they're building them with the correct geo, and that they're now offering FS bikes with suspensions that actually work is a huge step in the right direction.


Look at some of the geo closely. 420mm chainstays are super long for small kids. Transition has it right at 380mm on their FS bike.

A company like Transition who sells frames you would think should have a frame only offering at some point.

I agree with TwoTone, weight is more important than full suspension at this age. But kids want what is cool, which is full suspension!


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

GSJ1973 said:


> If I had three kids, I would buy the best 24" I could afford and pay it forward when the next 2 kids can ride a sweet bike. That will maximize your investment, but maybe you have some overlap (kids same size) on 24" so you have to do what is best for you.


That's what I'm trying to do, unfortunately, Lil Shredder is probably out of my price range.



> Look at some of the geo closely. 420mm chainstays are super long for small kids. Transition has it right at 380mm on their FS bike.
> 
> A company like Transition who sells frames you would think should have a frame only offering at some point.
> 
> I agree with TwoTone, weight is more important than full suspension at this age. But kids want what is cool, which is full suspension!


I agree here as well, although for the type of riding I do with my oldest kid the most, he would absolutely be discouraged with a rigid frame bike. I tried to talk him into the front suspension Kotori from Spawn, and he wouldn't even go there. I've gone back and forth on this for about 4 months...and I'm heavily leaning towards the Transition. The geo seems pretty decent, and there is some weight savings to be had without dropping a huge sum of money into the bike. My wife bought into the Ripcord advertisement video as well...thought it was "cute". I agree that there should be an option to buy the frame only. If that were an option, I'd buy the Ripcord and have a custom wheelset built with some decently lightweight components and add some lightweight bars/stems and call it a day.






The new Trek Fuel EX Jr is in play as well, as he rode the bike last weekend and liked it, but I don't see much potential for it if he gravitates (pun intended) towards DH.


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## stom_m3 (Jun 28, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> .


I LOVE that video! So awesome. One small thing and I mentioned it in another thread, the bars need to be cut down. You can see in the video that the kid can't pull up the front end of the bike as needed as his arms are spread to wide. Other than that, that kid can rip!


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> That's what I'm trying to do, unfortunately, Lil Shredder is probably out of my price range.
> 
> I agree here as well, although for the type of riding I do with my oldest kid the most, he would absolutely be discouraged with a rigid frame bike. I tried to talk him into the front suspension Kotori from Spawn, and he wouldn't even go there. I've gone back and forth on this for about 4 months...and I'm heavily leaning towards the Transition. The geo seems pretty decent, and there is some weight savings to be had without dropping a huge sum of money into the bike. My wife bought into the Ripcord advertisement video as well...thought it was "cute". I agree that there should be an option to buy the frame only. If that were an option, I'd buy the Ripcord and have a custom wheelset built with some decently lightweight components and add some lightweight bars/stems and call it a day.
> 
> ...


What kind of riding? I'm in MD, been to Bryce a few times. My son rides the rocky, rooty trails we have just fine on a HT.

I get the FS for kids who are riding big stuff out west. I like Bryce and no insult toward them, but it can be ridden on a HT.

Not to sound like a jerk, but sometime you have to put your foot down


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

TwoTone said:


> What kind of riding? I'm in MD, been to Bryce a few times. My son rides the rocky, rooty trails we have just fine on a HT.
> 
> I get the FS for kids who are riding big stuff out west. I like Bryce and no insult toward them, but it can be ridden on a HT.
> 
> Not to sound like a jerk, but sometime you have to put your foot down


I agree, you can get away with riding at bryce with a HT, but there are other resorts or other places (watershed) where FS and slack geo makes the ride so much more enjoyable. Blue Mtn is extremely rocky... I wouldn't and I wouldn't want my little one riding the trail on a HT.

The other week, we hit WISP and same applies. FS and slack geo allowed the ride so much more fun. We hit all runs expect double black-19.









Here is vid of him at WISP. First part is him doing a little drop. The second part of vid is following him down High Roller-10. He crashes at the end of the vid, but was ok. We did a few more runs after that.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

TwoTone said:


> What kind of riding? I'm in MD, been to Bryce a few times. My son rides the rocky, rooty trails we have just fine on a HT.
> 
> I get the FS for kids who are riding big stuff out west. I like Bryce and no insult toward them, but it can be ridden on a HT.
> 
> Not to sound like a jerk, but sometime you have to put your foot down


I get your gist, but...

I'm trying to make this as enjoyable as possible for him. His enjoyment is far more important to me than what geo works better, what he's actually capable of pushing himself to do, or what impresses others (within reason, mind you. I want to give him as much of an advantage as I can with equipment).

For me, it's about building a foundation. If he doesn't enjoy it, he won't do it.

He's ridden Bryce on a hardtail many times, and while he did ok, he didn't enjoy it nearly as much as he has on the Kona Stinky or the Fuel Jr. It beat the hell out of him, and he wasn't NEARLY as confident. He's progressed much faster on the FS.

I'd also like to start taking him places other than Bryce. The riding areas around me are littered with rock and roots. If it were a bike solely dedicated to riding Bryce I'd just get him one of the Konas as I can score one of them for cheap.

He's actually my step-son, and he's pretty sensitve...lacking some confidence. Anything I can do to improve upon that is the route I'm taking. I've tried the "man-up, son" route often, but with luke warm results. The fact that I've actually got him begging me to take him to the mountain is a huge step for him.


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## Swissam (Apr 8, 2008)

Lil shredders makes a decent looking bike with options from 16"-24" wheels.
Also Propain makes decent kids bikes but their chain stays look really long.


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## boomforeal (Nov 9, 2005)

if the OP or anyone else is still looking for input on the best grom bike, $ be damned, here are my thoughts after two months of my son riding transition's ripcord

nsmb.com/reviewed-transition-ripcord

now that it looks like i'll be buying the bike (my son's first words when i showed him the review were "does that mean i have to give it back!?"), i'll be making a couple of changes to get the weight down. already subbed in new shorter cranks and a 30t n/w ring and removed the chainguide. carbon bars and a spank stem. replacing the stock fork with a fox float 100 rlc. that's about it - bike climbs fine and absolutely shreds on the descents. if that's what you are looking for, i can't imagine you could do any better


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

boomforeal said:


> if the OP or anyone else is still looking for input on the best grom bike, $ be damned, here are my thoughts after two months of my son riding transition's ripcord
> 
> nsmb.com/reviewed-transition-ripcord
> 
> now that it looks like i'll be buying the bike (my son's first words when i showed him the review were "does that mean i have to give it back!?"), i'll be making a couple of changes to get the weight down. already subbed in new shorter cranks and a 30t n/w ring and removed the chainguide. carbon bars and a spank stem. replacing the stock fork with a fox float 100 rlc. that's about it - bike climbs fine and absolutely shreds on the descents. if that's what you are looking for, i can't imagine you could do any better


Great write-up!

That kid in the comments section is absolutely BOOSTING! It looks like he's bouncing off of the take-offs.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Great review thanks. How tall is your kid? I had a look at the Ripcord and it looked quite small.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

tomson75 said:


> I agree here as well, although for the type of riding I do with my oldest kid the most, he would absolutely be discouraged with a rigid frame bike.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Video was awesome! And I found the same thing with my son as far as HT vs FS. He's all about riding rigid when it comes to BMX, and is extremely smooth on one and can nail some impressive air, but for trail, he absolutely prefers FS.


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## boomforeal (Nov 9, 2005)

ProjectMayhem said:


> How tall is your kid? I had a look at the Ripcord and it looked quite small.


4'6" and he's definitely got a bit of room to grow. hopeful he'll get two seasons out of it


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

boomforeal said:


> 4'6" and he's definitely got a bit of room to grow. hopeful he'll get two seasons out of it


The recommended height range from the transition website has the Ripcord accommodating riders up to 5'3". You should easily be able to get 2 years out of it.
I'm considering buying one for my 10yo that is 4'10. I'm hoping to get at least two years out of it for him...and then more from his younger sister and brother.


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## dbone66 (Jul 6, 2015)

The Norco Fluid 4.3 comes with a 26er fork and 26er triangle. Does anyone know if 26er wheels can be used on it or is the frame too small?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

I would love to build something like this... money no object, you say? 

I imagine my kids will be getting custom 20, then 24", then probably 26" bikes as they get bigger... that's going to be a lot of unpaid work, but I bet it'll be worth it...

-Walt


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

Walt said:


> I would love to build something like this... money no object, you say?
> 
> I imagine my kids will be getting custom 20, then 24", then probably 26" bikes as they get bigger... that's going to be a lot of unpaid work, but I bet it'll be worth it...
> 
> -Walt


I wish I could have afforded a frame from you for them.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

whats annoying is the bikes with 26 inch forks are straight 1 1/8 head tubes, stupid in this day in age.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

POAH said:


> whats annoying is the bikes with 26 inch forks are straight 1 1/8 head tubes, stupid in this day in age.


With Trek putting a tapered head on their high end kids bike, I'd expect many others to follow suit in both the 24" and 26" bikes.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> With Trek putting a tapered head on their high end kids bike, I'd expect many others to follow suit in both the 24" and 26" bikes.


Why do you feel this is needed? Weight needs to come down on kids full suspension bikes first, this is way more important. Who cares about tapered head tubes.



POAH said:


> whats annoying is the bikes with 26 inch forks are straight 1 1/8 head tubes, stupid in this day in age.


Again, why? See above. Way more performance gained by losing 5 pounds rather than having "latest technology" of a tapered headtube for a kid. (IMHO)



TwoTone said:


> To me it's about weight and unfortunately to lose it you have to get higher end parts. A 27 lb 24 inch bike for a 70lb kid is like me riding a 77 lb bike.


This! We have a Fuel EX Jr. in our shop and threw it on the scale - 29.8 pounds. It's a $2000 bike you need to throw another stack of bills at just to get it down in weight a 70 pound kid can pedal uphill.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

some of the bikes are coming with 26 inch forks but not particularly good ones (part of the reason they are heavy). you can't upgrade them unless their are tappered. Tappered not going to add much in weight and makes for a stiffer bike. I wouldn't be buying a bike without one for my boy


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

GSJ1973 said:


> Why do you feel this is needed? Weight needs to come down on kids full suspension bikes first, this is way more important. Who cares about tapered head tubes.
> 
> Again, why? See above. Way more performance gained by losing 5 pounds rather than having "latest technology" of a tapered headtube for a kid. (IMHO)
> 
> This! We have a Fuel EX Jr. in our shop and threw it on the scale - 29.8 pounds. It's a $2000 bike you need to throw another stack of bills at just to get it down in weight a 70 pound kid can pedal uphill.


First of all, no one said it was "needed". Simply suggesting that it would be a better option for high end bikes doesn't warrant all of the hyperbole.

A 5lb head tube difference? Lmao!

Like POAH said, if you end up upgrading, the majority of light forks these days are going to fit tapered head tubes.

My 10yo son (not the strongest rider) had ZERO problem riding the Trek Fuel EX Jr uphill. He begged me for it after riding it, because he thought it was so light. I think your scale is broken. The shop that I work at had it at 24 in the weight yourself with and without the bike method...


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

tomson75 said:


> First of all, no one said it was "needed". Simply suggesting that it would be a better option for high end bikes doesn't warrant all of the hyperbole.
> 
> A 5lb head tube difference? Lmao!
> 
> ...


A bone stock Fuel EX Jr. build is 29.86 pounds (with reflectors) out of the box. Verified with a Park Tool digital hanging scale.

My 5 pound reference I guess was confusing, my bad. Basically I meant to say I'd rather see a focus on 5 pound lighter stock full suspension kids bikes. Lighter weight bikes by 5 pounds is way more of a performance upgrade than a tapered head tube/fork steerer tube ever will be.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

GSJ1973 said:


> A bone stock Fuel EX Jr. build is 29.86 pounds (with reflectors) out of the box. Verified with a Park Tool digital hanging scale.
> 
> My 5 pound reference I guess was confusing, my bad. Basically I meant to say I'd rather see a focus on 5 pound lighter stock full suspension kids bikes. Lighter weight bikes by 5 pounds is way more of a performance upgrade than a tapered head tube/fork steerer tube ever will be.


and how much would a 24-25lb bike cost for an FS bike suitable for a 10 year old given that the current bikes like propain yuma (£1400), trek fuel jr(£1400), norco 6.3 (£950) are basically XS 26 bikes. I won't consider one of the 24 inch bikes as they can't be upgraded to a better fork or wheels. They weigh the same as standard bikes in that price range but can be made lighter. I'll be getting my son the yumu soon and I can change over a lot of parts from his current bike that will make it 3-4lb lighter.


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## Smurf (May 10, 2006)

I've just heard from Transition that they are hoping to be able to offer a frame only deal next summer.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

That's great, smurf.

POAH, I think if we can afford it we will go for the Yuma too.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

POAH said:


> and how much would a 24-25lb bike cost for an FS bike suitable for a 10 year old given that the current bikes like propain yuma (£1400), trek fuel jr(£1400), norco 6.3 (£950) are basically XS 26 bikes. I won't consider one of the 24 inch bikes as they can't be upgraded to a better fork or wheels. They weigh the same as standard bikes in that price range but can be made lighter. I'll be getting my son the yumu soon and I can change over a lot of parts from his current bike that will make it 3-4lb lighter.


Basically frame-only needs to be available instead of a $2000 bike with 2200 gram crappy fork and 2000g wheels with 700 gram wire bead tires.


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

POAH said:


> I won't consider one of the 24 inch bikes as they can't be upgraded to a better fork or wheels.


Sure they can... any of the decent ones are using 26" forks anyways and there are 24" rim options out there- Stan's Crest, Alex, etc.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

gtrguy2 said:


> Sure they can... any of the decent ones are using 26" forks anyways and there are 24" rim options out there- Stan's Crest, Alex, etc.


good luck finding a 1 1/8 steerer fork thats decent


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

ProjectMayhem said:


> That's great, smurf.
> 
> POAH, I think if we can afford it we will go for the Yuma too.


going to get the minute upgraded to the mattoc pro for 190 euros


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

POAH said:


> good luck finding a 1 1/8 steerer fork thats decent


Rock Shox SID RCT3 is way more than decent. 

Lots of others still available actually.

Components > Frames, Forks and Suspension > Forks | Jenson USA

*RockShox SID RCT3 Fork 26" 100mm Solo Air 9mm QR MC DNA4Position Crown Adjust 1-1/8" A4, Black: *

SID's svelte design shaves every unnecessary ounce off to help you win the battle against gravity and fatigue, while its innovative technologies defy the laws of physics, giving you the stiffness, unparalleled plushness and control you'd only expect from a much heavier fork.

⋅ Solo Air lets you add air to your forks through a single Schrader valve, filling both the positive and negative air spring chambers simultaneously
⋅ Motion Control DNA - RCT3 damper features three distinct knob positions - Open, Threshold and Lock. 3 modes for specific terrain
⋅ Power Bulge simply reinforces the lower leg to allow for an oversized bushing, increasing stiffness and maximizing your ride
⋅ Rapid Recovery allows the fork to recovery faster between consecutive bumps, letting the wheel track the ground with greater precision
⋅ Includes Fork Pump and Bleed Kit for X-Loc remote (contains 460mm of hydraulic hose, 2 bleed syringes, 2 bleed fittings, and a Torx wrench)

Specifications

Axle to Crown Length: 473 mm
Brake Type: Post Mount 160
Color: Diffusion Black
Crown Race: 30
Defined Color: Black
External Adjustments: Rebound Damping , Low Speed Compression Damping , Lockout Threshold
Front Axle Type: 9x1 Quick Release
Front Hub Spacing (mm): 100 mm
Lockout Switch: Crown
Maximum Tire Width: 62 mm
Negative Spring: Air
Offset: 40 mm
Positive Spring: Air
S.H.I.S. Stem Clamp Diameter: 28.6
Stanchion Diameter: 32 mm
Steerer Tube Length (mm): 265 mm
Steerer Type: Straight
Travel (mm): 100 mm
Wheel Size: 26


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

For those of you opting for the Yuma, you may want to check out the geometry on those. I love the looks of them, but unless you're using it for DH only....check out the length of those chainstays. 

I've been through the whole gamut of kids bikes, and I've come full circle to a XS 26". The only kids bike with the right Geo for me was the Transition, but I felt like my kid would outgrow it too quickly.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

chain stays are fine, its a 26 bike really so two bikes in one. chainstays are few mm shorter than his current bike. people are too obsessed with short chainstays, its not the all end all.

the transition has a shitty fork and it would cost a lot to get a decent one over the cost of the bike plus he would out grow it quickly.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

POAH said:


> chain stays are fine, its a 26 bike really so two bikes in one. chainstays are few mm shorter than his current bike. people are too obsessed with short chainstays, its not the all end all.
> 
> the transition has a shitty fork and it would cost a lot to get a decent one over the cost of the bike plus he would out grow it quickly.


IIRC, the Yuma is sold as a 24" with a grown up kit available for like $280 additional. Not sure what measurements you're using, but the one I saw for the 24" was longer than most adult 26" bikes. If the "26" grown up kit lengthens it, well, have fun with that. There's no real way to have the geo work out for both size wheels....but whatever floats your boat.

Just wanted to point it out.

Personally, I'd rather upgrade the fork on the transition (which is already cheaper than the Yuma) than spend an extra $280 for the kit, and god knows how much on a 26" wheelset.


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

POAH said:


> good luck finding a 1 1/8 steerer fork thats decent


You mean like a 2016 Fox (26 single crown models available with 1 1/8" steerer) or a 2016 Rockshox product? Manufacturers still offer lots of their current models in straight 1 1/8... not to mention all the great used stuff that's out there.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

gtrguy2 said:


> You mean like a 2016 Fox (26 single crown models available with 1 1/8" steerer) or a 2016 Rockshox product? Manufacturers still offer lots of their current models in straight 1 1/8... not to mention all the great used stuff that's out there.


and how much is that going to cost? I spend 1400 on a bike then have to spend another 700 on a fox or £450 on a RS. seems a bit poor when you can find tapered forks much cheaper.


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

POAH said:


> and how much is that going to cost? I spend 1400 on a bike then have to spend another 700 on a fox or £450 on a RS. seems a bit poor when you can find tapered forks much cheaper.


Well, your previous post suggested they couldn't be found not that they were expensive. There are lots of good deals on new 1 1/8, 26" forks out there and tons of good used forks out there that are 1 1/8".

I picked up a great used Fox F100RL for my son's bike for the equivalent of £100. New and used deals are out there and there's no shortage of 1 1/8 forks.

For example:

2014 [PRICE DROP] FOX Float 32 FiT Factory Series 100mm Fork For Sale


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

tomson75 said:


> IIRC, the Yuma is sold as a 24" with a grown up kit available for like $280 additional. Not sure what measurements you're using, but the one I saw for the 24" was longer than most adult 26" bikes. If the "26" grown up kit lengthens it, well, have fun with that. There's no real way to have the geo work out for both size wheels....but whatever floats your boat.
> 
> Just wanted to point it out.
> 
> Personally, I'd rather upgrade the fork on the transition (which is already cheaper than the Yuma) than spend an extra $280 for the kit, and god knows how much on a 26" wheelset.


yuma is cheaper than the transition for me. I can get the yuma with the mattoc for less than the transition. CS is 423mm which is a few MM shorter than his current 24 inch bike and shorter than my 26 inch bike. He'll grow out of the transition pretty quick as its made for shorter riders, the yuma and the commecal is for larger riders.

the grown up kit contains a longer shock for 160mm travel, wheels and the drop out. thats not a bad deal.

I'd rather the bike be stable on DH than frisky.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

gtrguy2 said:


> Well, your previous post suggested they couldn't be found not that they were expensive. There are lots of good deals on new 1 1/8, 26" forks out there and tons of good used forks out there that are 1 1/8".
> 
> I picked up a great used Fox F100RL for my son's bike for the equivalent of £100. New and used deals are out there and there's no shortage of 1 1/8 forks.
> 
> ...


crap fork though


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

POAH said:


> crap fork though


LOL... Not a Fox fan?... Factory series RLC with rebound, lockout force and low speed compression adjustments... yeah that really sucks...



Maybe this is more your liking:

Rock Shox Sid carbon For Sale


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

gtrguy2 said:


> LOL... Not a Fox fan?... Factory series RLC with rebound, lockout force and low speed compression adjustments... yeah that really sucks...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


how old is that fox, about 4-5 years? and that SID is only 90mm. I would't put something on lewis'sbike that I wouldn't use myself.


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## gtrguy2 (May 17, 2015)

Never mind... pointless discussion, I'll bow out.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

POAH said:


> how old is that fox, about 4-5 years? and that SID is only 90mm. I would't put something on lewis'sbike that I wouldn't use myself.


OK, we get it.

So your 90 pound (40kg) kid is too good for a 1 1/8 steerer tube fork and fork that was top-of-the-line a few years ago.

Haha, this thread has now just made it to a whole new elitist level!


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

GSJ1973 said:


> OK, we get it.
> 
> So your 90 pound (40kg) kid is too good for a 1 1/8 steerer tube fork and fork that was top-of-the-line a few years ago.
> 
> Haha, this thread has now just made it to a whole new elitist level!


wow thats some reading between the lines there - obviously I'll have to explain it as a level you can understand.

it has nothing to do with the actual steerer size, it has to do with the fork thats underneath it. I wouldn't buy a 5 year old fox fork for a bike nor would I buy an ancient sid that doesn't have the travel matched to the bike. That has bugger all to do with steerer size.

really you can't be that dumb to think its about steerer size


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

POAH said:


> I wouldn't buy a 5 year old fox fork for a bike
> 
> really you can't be that dumb to think its about steerer size


Yeah I must be that dumb because I think a 4-5 year old 1 1/8th Fox Factory Series fork RLC with rebound, lockout force and low speed compression adjustment is good.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

GSJ1973 said:


> Yeah I must be that dumb because I think a 4-5 year old 1 1/8th Fox Factory Series fork RLC with rebound, lockout force and low speed compression adjustment is good.


can have all the bells and whistles it wants but its still a 4 year old fox fork.

anyway, I've actually found a decent fork to replace the crapy RS on the ripcord so will be ordering one.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

POAH said:


> chain stays are fine, its a 26 bike really so two bikes in one. chainstays are few mm shorter than his current bike. people are too obsessed with short chainstays, its not the all end all.
> 
> the transition has a shitty fork and it would cost a lot to get a decent one over the cost of the bike plus he would out grow it quickly.


Chain stay length may not matter much to you, but for a child it's a big deal. I have direct experience with it based on my son and daughters bikes.

My son tried his sisters Cannondale Race 24 and when he got off he asked if it was bigger. I didn't say anything just asked what he meant and he said trying to get the front wheel off the ground was harder and when he jumped it felt different. He hasn't asked her to swap since that one ride.

His Marin has much shorter chainstays than the Cannondale.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Check out cleary bikes and trailcraft. They have 24 inch bikes in the 20 lb range. Trailcraft is crazy expensive. But they have a titanium frame as well. Cleary seems more reasonably priced. Their 24 comes out in a few months


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

TwoTone said:


> Chain stay length may not matter much to you, but for a child it's a big deal. I have direct experience with it based on my son and daughters bikes.
> 
> My son tried his sisters Cannondale Race 24 and when he got off he asked if it was bigger. I didn't say anything just asked what he meant and he said trying to get the front wheel off the ground was harder and when he jumped it felt different. He hasn't asked her to swap since that one ride.
> 
> His Marin has much shorter chainstays than the Cannondale.


its not just chainstays that matter but the whole package - also if you are used to a certain bike you will find it different if you go to another one.


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## boomforeal (Nov 9, 2005)

POAH said:


> its not just chainstays that matter but the whole package - also if you are used to a certain bike you will find it different if you go to another one.


i received all of your posts in this thread in the week-end digest email, and had a good laugh.

firstly, the ripcord and other bikes mentioned in this thread all have 44mm or tapered headtubes, so you can swap in a fork with a tapered steer tube if you like

secondly, the dampers on many 4-year old fox forks makes them superior to most of what fox is pumping out these days. pre-fit forks are also easier to service and more durable. really, older fox forks are perfect for kids bikes: i picked up a 10 year old float 32 rlc to replace the xc 32 that came stock on my son's ripcord for $75 - typical fox build quality, it was in excellent shape, rebuild was a cinch and he noticed an improvement in suspension quality immediately

thirdly, despite its 24" wheels the yuma is in another class, size-wise, than the ripcord, fluid 4.3, etc. if your kid can fit that, he should be on an xs 26" bike in my opinion, not a small frame with undersize wheels.

fourthly, you're right when you say that chainstay length isn't the whole package - but a bike with a given wheelbase length, shorter chainstays and a longer from centre, will feel just as stable at speed yet more playful and maneuverable than a bike with the same wheelbase and longer chainstays, so they're definitely worth considering

and finally, i realize this is a subforum about riding with kids, but you don't have to act all childish and insult people. it would be bad form even if your insights and ideas weren't stupid


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

POAH said:


> can have all the bells and whistles it wants but its still a 4 year old fox fork.


Do you really think your kid is riding at a level beyond what a 4 year old fork can handle? Can you post some vids? My son rides fork almost twice that old and spent all day Friday clearing 15-20 tables at the new bike park that just opened near us. Had no issues on the 'expert' level DH runs either, hitting drops up to a few feet at a good clip.

Also, in our experience, CS length and a bike that likes to be handled means a whole lot more than counting grams.


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

I am not sure why we care if he purchases a fork that current or old or if it meets skill set of the rider, if he has the means it is his money and choice.

If I had the funding, I would purchase the best and newest products all the time. We all have threshold/funding limits that we stay-in, some are higher or lower than others. 

my 2 cents.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

dc40 said:


> If I had the funding, I would purchase the best and newest products all the time. We all have threshold/funding limits that we stay-in, some are higher or lower than others.
> 
> my 2 cents.


Best.

Newest.

Lightest.

(pick two)


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

slapheadmofo said:


> Do you really think your kid is riding at a level beyond what a 4 year old fork can handle? Can you post some vids? My son rides fork almost twice that old and spent all day Friday clearing 15-20 tables at the new bike park that just opened near us. Had no issues on the 'expert' level DH runs either, hitting drops up to a few feet at a good clip.
> 
> Also, in our experience, CS length and a bike that likes to be handled means a whole lot more than counting grams.


its nothing to do with skill, its to do with reliablity and servicing. my bike it spec'd way beyond my skill level so I fail to see your point.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

dc40 said:


> I am not sure why we care if he purchases a fork that current or old or if it meets skill set of the rider, if he has the means it is his money and choice.
> 
> If I had the funding, I would purchase the best and newest products all the time. We all have threshold/funding limits that we stay-in, some are higher or lower than others.
> 
> my 2 cents.


I don't really care what people buy, but the idea that you have to spend a ton of $$ to get totally serviceable parts that perform at (or far above) the level that will be required of them is incorrect. Also, cost was clearly mentioned as a concern. You can't say 'I have to have the newest and lightest high end tech' and at the same time think you're going to get it without paying a premium. Bling costs money. If money is no object, then plunk down a grand and take your choice of forks. Just don't think that it's required to get more than enough performance, or that if it's not new and shiny and flashy that it's crap.


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## thefuzzbl (Jul 5, 2006)

Derek200 said:


> Check out cleary bikes and trailcraft. Trailcraft is crazy expensive. But they have a titanium frame as well. Cleary seems more reasonably priced. Their 24 comes out in a few months


Those are both hardtails.

When you mention "crazy expensive" though you have to think what the final build cost will come out to of modifying these super heavy stock bikes. Trailcraft at $1700 you are getting a very light 24" bike out of the box and no further mods necessary. 1300 gram wheels, Schwalbe tires, complete Shimano Deore, light seatpost, bars and stem. More time spending with your kids actually riding than figuring out how to spend $800 more making your kids bike 5-6 pounds lighter for them. Some people will say it's a lot, but I say it's a way better deal in the long run. Time is money to me and I tend to buy as much bike as I can afford from the beginning.

Most kids bikes in the are expensive because you are getting a super heavy bike with super crappy components and have to throw a bunch more money at it to make it decently light. Prime example is all of the full suspension bikes mentioned here and how to make them lighter. Ripcord, Kona Fluid 4.3, Fuel EX Jr. are all $1500-$2000 for 29-30 pound bike FS bikes. Then you are spending what, another $500 or more to take 3 to 4 pounds off of it to bring it to a decent weight where it can actually go uphill with enjoyment?

So if you look at it this way it's not crazy expensive. But we are talking FS bikes and not hardtails in this thread. Sorry to derail. Need some good $2,000 24-pound (or less) well spec'd FS kids bikes!


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Yeah I realized the title was FS after I posted response.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

I spent £850 over 18 months making Lewis's bike sub 23lb with pedals. didn't see the point in spending lots when he may not take to it. when I get his ripcord I'll be transferring all the bits from his current bike over to make it lighter. if the bike was 24lbs to begin with how much would that cost? I certainly couldn't afford it. 

I used to ride a cheap BMX when I was younger and the weight never held me up.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

I have some older kids (driving age) and a 5 year old. I am wanting a 24 inch bike for my 5 year old and would like a lighter bike. But that's more my obsession. He will ride anything anywhere. For as long as I let him. 

So I figured HT with a 1x set up would be ideal weight wise. As cleary for example will be a 24 inch bike in the 20 lb range and 900mm WB for i hope in he 3-400 dollar range.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

I think you might have to lower your expectations


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

If it's more - he will just have to get stronger to overcome the weight!


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

You have a 5-year-old on a 24"? Seriously? How big is this kid?



Derek200 said:


> I have some older kids (driving age) and a 5 year old. I am wanting a 24 inch bike for my 5 year old and would like a lighter bike. But that's more my obsession. He will ride anything anywhere. For as long as I let him.
> 
> So I figured HT with a 1x set up would be ideal weight wise. As cleary for example will be a 24 inch bike in the 20 lb range and 900mm WB for i hope in he 3-400 dollar range.


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## maleonardphi (May 19, 2006)

Derek200 said:


> I have some older kids (driving age) and a 5 year old. I am wanting a 24 inch bike for my 5 year old and would like a lighter bike. But that's more my obsession. He will ride anything anywhere. For as long as I let him.
> 
> So I figured HT with a 1x set up would be ideal weight wise. As cleary for example will be a 24 inch bike in the 20 lb range and 900mm WB for i hope in he 3-400 dollar range.


A 24" bike is huge for a 5 year old. My son is almost 8 and 52" tall, and we're just starting to think about moving up to a 24" bike. The worst thing you can do is put a kid on a bike that doesn't fit, regardless of weight and components.


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

My five year old is huge. He is probably 50 inches or so...

He is on a 20 inch bike right now. He isn't ready for a 24 inch bike unless we are on paved trails. The 20 fits him good for the single track trails around here. 

But when we go out on roads or paved trails he can go quite a bit faster on a 24 inch bike. And doesn't need the stand over. He enjoys the extra speed and so I am searching for a bike that he can grow into. Ride it now on road and later on trails. 

I will say he occasionally has an exciting dismount when he stops. But he still chooses the bigger bike when we aren't on dirt.


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

That is one big 5 year old. And what your doing makes far more sense than buying a 9 year old an FS that weighs 30lbs. But I digress. 

Take a peak at the Scott line up. We live in Crested Butte. Most of our kids (unless they are racing DH) under the age of 12 are riding Scott HT. And yes, we have some pretty decent trails and yep, almost all our kids under the age of 12 are still riding XC on a HT. That's how they learn to ride. Putting them on a FS too young will teach them far to many bad habits.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

JakeCB said:


> Putting them on a FS too young will teach them far to many bad habits.


Such as?


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## Derek200 (Jun 16, 2015)

Jake - I'm almost with you. I am partial to rigid forks on small bikes also. In fact id rather have high volume tires and less suspension. Take away some of the chatter but I don't know how much his 65 lb self can actually compress a shock anyway. And he just likes to ride.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

benefits of air suspension - lewis doesn't have any issue with his forks compressing


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## boomforeal (Nov 9, 2005)

JakeCB said:


> Putting them on a FS too young will teach them far to many bad habits.





slapheadmofo said:


> Such as?


going fast and having fun


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

Looking forward to Spawn's new FS 24" that's rumored to be released soon. They've seemed to fill the niche between most the popular mid grade kid's bikes and the elite bikes like Little Shredder. 

This might be a step up from the Ripcord...


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

Not knowing how to pick a line, ride roots, rocks, etc. They will pick up a lot of the same bad habits seen in many adults who think the more they spend on a bike, the better rider they will be. But hey, what do I know. My kid rides everything around here on a Scott HT as do all his friends. Bikes recommended by their coaches.



slapheadmofo said:


> Such as?


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

JakeCB said:


> Not knowing how to pick a line, ride roots, rocks, etc. They will pick up a lot of the same bad habits seen in many adults who think the more they spend on a bike, the better rider they will be. But hey, what do I know. My kid rides everything around here on a Scott HT as do all his friends. Bikes recommended by their coaches.


lines are different between a hardtail and an FS. Its such a crap argument that - its similar to learning to use a camera on full manual or film before digital.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

JakeCB said:


> ...Putting them on a FS too young will teach them far to many bad habits.


Not this old wives tale again. If there were any logic to this reasoning, every kid riding moto would have these "bad habits" as every moto has suspension.

I have found the complete opposite. Suspension, properly tuned for my kids, has made their riding safer and more enjoyable. This means they ride more often, ride further and are prepared to tackle trails as rough as they get.

Think about this. If you had to ride the A-line on a DH track on both a DH bike and an XC hardtail, which would you tackle the course on first? You'd hit the A-line on DH bike first and after a few runs you'd be far more likely to be able to clean it then on the XC bike. You sure wouldn't start on the XC bike.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

TigWorld said:


> Not this old wives tale again. If there were any logic to this reasoning, every kid riding moto would have these "bad habits" as every moto has suspension.
> 
> I have found the complete opposite. Suspension, properly tuned for my kids, has made their riding safer and more enjoyable. This means they ride more often, ride further and are prepared to tackle trails as rough as they get.


Exactly. The notion that you can't learn proper lines, methods for tackling rocks, roots, etc. unless you're on a cheap hardtail is absurd. Learning different riding techniques has zero to do with the bike...but building confidence does not.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

JakeCB said:


> Not knowing how to pick a line, ride roots, rocks, etc. They will pick up a lot of the same bad habits seen in many adults who think the more they spend on a bike, the better rider they will be. But hey, what do I know. My kid rides everything around here on a Scott HT as do all his friends. Bikes recommended by their coaches.


I agree riding full suspension bikes from the beginning absolutely creates a different type of rider but I wouldn't call them bad habits. So many things come into play riding both hardtail/fs bikes like climbing traction, descending, picking good lines, etc.. Many of the top Downhill/enduro riders have come from a BMX background (full rigid) if you look around. Heck google "Jared Graves BMX" as an example.

If you can ride a fully rigid bike, you are ready for anything in the future.

Really it depends where you live and terrain your kid will ride most of the time. Looks like you are in Crested Butte Jake and I agree no need for a 24" full suspension bike. It is way more important to have a lighter bike to tackle the 2,000+ foot climbs and lack of oxygen at 10,000 feet there. But if bike parks and super tough trails with minimal elevation gain (no climbing) are the majority of trails ridden then I can see where a FS bike would be nice.

Remember, typically what comes down must be ridden up first. If you feel a 29-30 pound 24" FS bike will build confidence for your 60-75 pound kid then go for it. It will be hard to have a fun time riding uphill when the bike is almost half of their riding weight. To make it fun to be used as an all around X-C bike, a SERIOUS weight loss program must be put in place. This is not a low budget task as these bikes are already $1500 or more in stock form for a bike which will be used for 2-3 years. It's nice to see Transition is offering the frame only as an option so there are not so many useless heavy take-off components going into the random bike parts bin.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

GSJ1973 said:


> It's nice to see Transition is offering the frame only as an option so there are not so many useless heavy take-off components going into the random bike parts bin.


Why I didnt know they started offering it. When the Rip was first announced I called asking for a frame only for the very reason you mentioned and they said no. Nice to see they changed their minds.


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## boomforeal (Nov 9, 2005)

TwoTone said:


> Why I didnt know they started offering it. When the Rip was first announced I called asking for a frame only for the very reason you mentioned and they said no. Nice to see they changed their minds.


smart move, though i'm surprised they were able to swing it for half the cost of their full sized frames

also notice next year's ripcord has shorter cranks, a smaller front chainring and a wider range cassette out back, all good moves



tomson75 said:


> Looking forward to Spawn's new FS 24" that's rumored to be released soon. They've seemed to fill the niche between most the popular mid grade kid's bikes and the elite bikes like Little Shredder.


exciting! spawn makes great kids bikes, bet it'll be a ripper



JakeCB said:


> Not knowing how to pick a line, ride roots, rocks, etc. They will pick up a lot of the same bad habits seen in many adults who think the more they spend on a bike, the better rider they will be. But hey, what do I know. My kid rides everything around here on a Scott HT as do all his friends. Bikes recommended by their coaches.


lulz


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

JakeCB said:


> Not knowing how to pick a line, ride roots, rocks, etc. They will pick up a lot of the same bad habits seen in many adults who think the more they spend on a bike, the better rider they will be. But hey, what do I know. My kid rides everything around here on a Scott HT as do all his friends. Bikes recommended by their coaches.


One could argue if you run the same lines on a FS as you do on a HT, you may be the one that has bad riding habits.


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## tomson75 (May 25, 2014)

boomforeal said:


> exciting! spawn makes great kids bikes, bet it'll be a ripper


Apparently they're planning on making a 20" FS as well.


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## othello (Apr 10, 2012)

tomson75 said:


> The recommended height range from the transition website has the Ripcord accommodating riders up to 5'3". You should easily be able to get 2 years out of it.
> I'm considering buying one for my 10yo that is 4'10. I'm hoping to get at least two years out of it for him...and then more from his younger sister and brother.


Interesting as my son is about 4ft 8" (aged 10yrs) and he already rides a 13" framed 26" wheel hard tail. He is after a FS bike, and bikes like the ripcord look good. But its a drop down in wheel size.


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## TwoTone (Jul 5, 2011)

othello said:


> Interesting as my son is about 4ft 8" (aged 10yrs) and he already rides a 13" framed 26" wheel hard tail. He is after a FS bike, and bikes like the ripcord look good. But its a drop down in wheel size.


As has been said many times on countless threads in here, there's riding and then there's riding. My wife is really short and I built her a really nice Fuel WSD 90 back in the day.
My son can get on it and ride it around, but he can't 'ride' as well in the woods, jumping, getting the front wheel up and over things as well as he can his 24'' bike.

Height, wheel size, riding, it's all very subjective.


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## nmdhmtb (Sep 17, 2015)

TigWorld said:


> Not this old wives tale again. If there were any logic to this reasoning, every kid riding moto would have these "bad habits" as every moto has suspension.
> 
> I have found the complete opposite. Suspension, properly tuned for my kids, has made their riding safer and more enjoyable. This means they ride more often, ride further and are prepared to tackle trails as rough as they get.
> 
> Think about this. If you had to ride the A-line on a DH track on both a DH bike and an XC hardtail, which would you tackle the course on first? You'd hit the A-line on DH bike first and after a few runs you'd be far more likely to be able to clean it then on the XC bike. You sure wouldn't start on the XC bike.


He's some personal feedback on the topic of bike weight / full suspension vs. hardtail.

This relates to DOWNHILL bike park riding experience with kid from 6 yr old and now 11 year old with significant downhill experience (286,000 vertical age 10, 300,000+ age 11). Video of 10 y/o age, and my site has video down to age 8 when he could 1st barely sit on a 24" FS bike.






@ Angel Fire, NM arguably the or one of the best parks in North America outside of Whistler.

1) Weight for downhill FS kids bike is overblown. Kid (11 y/o) weighs now 78 lbs, bike is/has been 37 lbs for number of years. Its not the same as an adult having a bike weighing 1/2 your weight. Height now @ 11 y/o is 4'8".

2) Hydraulic brakes are a must. Air shocks are a must for the light weight of kids, coils just don't cut it as they aren't spec'd right for the light kid weights.

3) Air shocks up front/rear are a must for proper set up and full utilization of a downhill kid bike capability.

4) The hardtail myth is a myth for becoming a better downhill rider. They ride faster and better lines with proper suspension over roots, rocks, jumps, etc. The best riders I've seen are the kids who do motocross 1st (mine didn't). He'd be able to handle a hard tail also, but the lines through rocks, ruts, and big air would be slower.

5) It's all about fun and how much/often they want go out and ride. Knowing a trail is a big part of how aggressive a line they'll take.

6) It's also about your fun as a parent. You're have more fun once they are ripping up all the trails at a good pace. If they enjoy it, you're enjoy it.

7) Safety 1st. It's more fun when they are protected and are more likely to get up from a fall and finish out the day.

His bike is an older Specialized Big Hit Grom with upgraded air front/rear and hydraulic bakes with 24" wheels, for reference.

NONE of my opinions have to do with uphill riding. If we were doing long up/down typically cross country trails, then my kid would be better off on a lighter hardtail, as would I ....


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## Andrew Reznick (Apr 15, 2014)

I'm going to go with Lil Shredder for 24 inches for my kids. My kids have already been riding the 20 inch shredders and love them. Lil Shredder is a great company and has worked out everything to optimize these bikes for kids (geometry including crank length, suspension, weight). Admittedly, in the 24 inch category there are many more good choices than in the 20 inch category - so this is a tougher decision. 

I've seen some people say they would custom build a bike starting with a Commencal or a Transition Ripcord frame. Agree, these are nice frames and would be awesome custom built. However, with Lil Shredder you are getting a custom built bike every time - with awesome components top to bottom, custom colors, and input from you as to any special parts you want. By the time you would build any frame up to be as good as a shredder, you would spend just as much money. Also, if you want even more awesome parts (such as carbon bars, wheels, or a different stem) - just ask Brian to supply it or supply it yourself. At least with Lil Shredder, this will save you the cost of the original part. Whereas, with other brands, anything you upgrade will leave you with an original part that you paid for and don't need (unless you start with only a frame).

Next, Regarding hard tails - nobody enjoys mountain biking as much on a hard tail - especially not a beginner, and especially not kids. I think this debate was settled about 15 years ago. My kids learned on full suspension - and they have amazing skills (although they did learn some of these doing BMX).

Lastly regarding non-shredders: I would probably go with the Transition for all mountain, and the Commencal for downhill. But the Norco, Propain, specialized, and trek all look okay. I am generally less attracted to "major" brands such as specialized and trek because I don't think they put much thought into kids - just putting 24 inch wheels on an extra-small adult bike. Looks like Transition and Commencal have put some serious thought into kids. 

Overall, all of the brands except Shredders are using relatively inexpensive components top to bottom. These will be a bit heavier and may fail sooner, maybe have less accurate shifting, slightly less plush suspension. This is fine for most riders - and your kids will have tons of fun on them. But my expert kids deserve the same type of expert bike and components that I would expect on my bike. After all, at 9 years old, they're better riders than I am....

Kudos to all of you who are taking your kids mountain biking! That is awesome!

Cheers,
Andrew


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

lil shredders are way overpriced and look god awful


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## JakeCB (Jul 11, 2011)

POAH said:


> lil shredders are way overpriced and look god awful


I live in a pretty bike centric area (Crested Butte) and I've never run into a Lil Shredder. At 3K for a 16" - 20" trail bike I don't think that will change anytime soon. I also see they are saying their 24" "Trail" build will fit a kid 5' 3". Must be shuttle or park riding because any climbing for a kid over 4' 8/9" on a 24 inch would be hell.

If it is a kids specific FS you want it would be far smarter to just go out and pick up a 26" Trek Fuel Jr at half the price (used even less) or build your own.

As for HT v FS for smaller kids (under 70lbs) being determined 15 years ago. To each their own. I'll stick with my original statement, if you want your kid to be a good all around rider teach them on a good, light HT. My guess is the man from Portland's kids aren't spending 2-3 hours climbing to get to the best single track. Our kids do around here. If they don't have the skill set they won't last long in the sport or have a lot of fun. We don't raise many park rats, just solid all around bikers.


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## Andrew Reznick (Apr 15, 2014)

RE: Full suspension - I believe most people decided that ADULTS like full suspension better. This was a big debate in about 1999-2001. I believe that kids feel the same way. Kids also crash a lot and therefore need all the help they can get.

RE: Shredders up to 5'3". Agree. My kids are 4'3-4'4" (one of each, non-identical twins). I anticipate they will outgrow their shredders (or any 24-26 kids bike) by the time they are about 4'11". Their 20" shredders are supposed to go to 4'6", but getting small at 4'4".

The problem is that it is important for people (of all ages) to be on a bike that is the right size. This means kids outgrow bikes. Nevertheless, they are serious bikers and deserve good bikes. My hope is to get some of the money back when I sell them in a few years.

RE: "Overpriced". I agree they are expensive. However, as a small company, with frames custom built in the USA (extremely rare nowadays), FOX Kashima suspension front and back, and the component mix - they can't do it any cheaper. Also, adult bikes with similar components cost about the same amount. They could offer a lower component mix which is essentially what you get from other brands. Not sure why they don't. Again, a lower component group is fine for most people.

RE: Shredders are rare - I see a number of them around Portland, but it is a local company. Also, I see them a lot in Whistler. A lot off the locals ride them. They ship all over the world.

RE: Bike park rats / climbing. We don't have any bike parks near Portland. Our usual weekend ride (Sandy Ridge trail system) involves a 1800 foot climb and then all downhill from there. The highlight of our year is our annual Whistler trip, but we only spend about 4 days there per year. We also do some shuttled rides around Portland because climbing is difficult for 6-8 year olds, no matter what bike they are on. But again, we climb at our favorite trail system. We help the boys climb with bungee chords, but we're hoping to stop doing this in the next year or two.

I used to be a cross country rider but haver become much more into free-ride/downhill due to my kids. Kids find jumping fun (and so do I), so we try to find places to jump.

RE: Skills and suspension - we ride BMX and dirt jump too. They ride rigid BMX bikes for this ($350). They have gained many skills this way, so in a way I agree suspension is not needed to gain skills. But, I do think suspension helps with long trail rides, technical downhill, or bike park riding - and we do it all. I think shredders are described as "downhill" because they market to park riders a lot, but really they are most similar in geometry and spirit to "All mountain" adult bikes. They are light and pedal pretty well.

RE: I would go with a Trek Fuel for half the price. Agree sort of. I would go with the Transition or Commencal for Trek for 1/2 the price. I strongly considered a cheaper brand, but I wanted better forks. When I realized that a good fork costs $700, I decided to just go with shredders again. This is not necessary for most people.

Here is a film of my boys on their 20 inch shredders, age 8. Its from Whistler - not because we are bike park rats - but because films tend to be boring if there are no jumps, and films of technical single track shake so much that they are not watchable.






Cheers,
Andrew from Portland


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## crepasz (Aug 30, 2013)

Not FS but for some of the best youth bikes out there:

WOOM 5 SUPRA | Bike 24 inch | 7-11 Years | 49-57" | 17lb 13oz (8.1kg) | WOOMBIKES USA

We have a 4 year old starting to shred real trails on the WOOM 3 and I am keeping her in these bikes till she rides the adult sized bike.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

crepasz said:


> Not FS but for some of the best youth bikes out there:
> 
> WOOM 5 SUPRA | Bike 24 inch | 7-11 Years | 49-57" | 17lb 13oz (8.1kg) | WOOMBIKES USA
> 
> We have a 4 year old starting to shred *real trails* on the WOOM 3 and I am keeping her in these bikes till she rides the adult sized bike.


Doubtful you are shredding any "real trails" on a hybrid bike with 1.5" street tires.

And how is this remotely close to a "which 24" full suspension bike" thread again?


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

crepasz said:


> Not FS but for some of the best youth bikes out there:
> 
> WOOM 5 SUPRA | Bike 24 inch | 7-11 Years | 49-57" | 17lb 13oz (8.1kg) | WOOMBIKES USA
> 
> We have a 4 year old starting to shred real trails on the WOOM 3 and I am keeping her in these bikes till she rides the adult sized bike.


given this a thread about FS kids bikes, why post a kids hybrid bike??????????????????

it doesn't have disc brakes, has a 520mm wide bar, and street tyres


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## crepasz (Aug 30, 2013)

POAH said:


> given this a thread about FS kids bikes, why post a kids hybrid bike??????????????????
> 
> it doesn't have disc brakes, has a 520mm wide bar, and street tyres


Fair enough but most kids that age do not benefit from suspension as the weight penalty is greater than the mild benefit of suspension travel. Unless your name is Jackson Goldstone, buying a 2K bike that will last two years doesn't make that much sense. These bikes, Islabikes and Spawn all make some pretty capable trail bikes with good geometry and good to very good components without the weight penalty.

Like I said we have a 4 year old riding real trails with real climbs and real descents in East TN. She rides over roots and rock gardens and kills it at the pump track...

The tires are Kenda Small Block 8's, the bars can be upgraded if that is needed as well as adding a shock. We have decided to wait till she fits an adult bike to spend the cash on a FS bike.

I thought I would share our experience on the forum.

I have looked at some of those bikes and if they didn't weigh so much would love to get one.

Thanks


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## crepasz (Aug 30, 2013)

Folks not trying to be a negative person and yes I did read the title. A few others have also put out a differing opinion and I assume they didn't do so to stir the pot. Might have been trying to be helpful or share their own experience. 

If your kids are riding.... Good deal and congrats.


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## crepasz (Aug 30, 2013)

POAH said:


> given this a thread about FS kids bikes, why post a kids hybrid bike??????????????????
> 
> it doesn't have disc brakes, has a 520mm wide bar, and street tyres


So nice of you to judge riding based on..... nothing. Kid races her "hybrid bike with street tires" and has been all year. Thought I would post this as a bit of an alternative suggestion to a 3K bike that might last 2 years tops. Most people cant lay out that kind of cash. East TN is full of great trails and these bikes, along with companies like IslaBike and Spawn make very capable bikes. Not too many Comanches make a quality childrens bike that is trail ready so I thought I'd post. Maybe someone who wasn't going to lay out the same cash as an adult FS bikle would buy a good quality bike for their kid and ride.

If this isnt appropriate for all of the pros on the board.......


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

crepasz said:


> Fair enough but most kids that age do not benefit from suspension as the weight penalty is greater than the mild benefit of suspension travel. Unless your name is Jackson Goldstone, buying a 2K bike that will last two years doesn't make that much sense. These bikes, Islabikes and Spawn all make some pretty capable trail bikes with good geometry and good to very good components without the weight penalty.
> 
> Like I said we have a 4 year old riding real trails with real climbs and real descents in East TN. She rides over roots and rock gardens and kills it at the pump track...
> 
> ...





crepasz said:


> Folks not trying to be a negative person and yes I did read the title. A few others have also put out a differing opinion and I assume they didn't do so to stir the pot. Might have been trying to be helpful or share their own experience.
> 
> If your kids are riding.... Good deal and congrats.





crepasz said:


> So nice of you to judge riding based on..... nothing. Kid races her "hybrid bike with street tires" and has been all year. Thought I would post this as a bit of an alternative suggestion to a 3K bike that might last 2 years tops. Most people cant lay out that kind of cash. East TN is full of great trails and these bikes, along with companies like IslaBike and Spawn make very capable bikes. Not too many Comanches make a quality childrens bike that is trail ready so I thought I'd post. Maybe someone who wasn't going to lay out the same cash as an adult FS bikle would buy a good quality bike for their kid and ride.
> 
> If this isnt appropriate for all of the pros on the board.......


Let it go bub. You are arguing with yourself at this point.


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## POAH (Apr 29, 2009)

except this this a thread about money no object FS bike



crepasz said:


> So nice of you to judge riding based on..... nothing. Kid races her "hybrid bike with street tires" and has been all year. Thought I would post this as a bit of an alternative suggestion to a 3K bike that might last 2 years tops. Most people cant lay out that kind of cash. East TN is full of great trails and these bikes, along with companies like IslaBike and Spawn make very capable bikes. Not too many Comanches make a quality childrens bike that is trail ready so I thought I'd post. Maybe someone who wasn't going to lay out the same cash as an adult FS bikle would buy a good quality bike for their kid and ride.
> 
> If this isnt appropriate for all of the pros on the board.......


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## dc40 (Oct 4, 2013)

crepasz said:


> Fair enough but most kids that age do not benefit from suspension as the weight penalty is greater than the mild benefit of suspension travel. Unless your name is Jackson Goldstone, buying a 2K bike that will last two years doesn't make that much sense.


Most of these bikes are for DH/Park riding, so weight is not much of a concern vs correct geo/suspension. He wouldn't been able make it down 75% of the trails on HT and it would be putting him at risk of crashing and injuring himself. We only ride DH and DJ, so $2K is worth it for him to have the proper bike and fit, even if he out grows it by the next year or two... for safety and confidence.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

I recently bought my 7 year old a Transition Ripcord full suspension mountain bike. I chose the Ripcord, primarily because it has the lowest standover height of all the current production 24" wheel full suspension bikes.










Unfortunately, at over 30.1 lbs, it's a bit heavy in stock form.

I thought the weight was a little too much for my 60 pound kid to lug around. So I put the bike on a diet in order to get the weight down a bit.

The wheels and tires were the first things to be swapped out. The stock Kenda tires weighed 1090 grams each! I replace the tires with a set of Schwalbe Rocket Ron's. The Rocket Ron's averaged 542g each. I'm running the Rocket Ron's tubeless.

The stock rims weighed 2050 grams for the set. I had Dustin at Southern Wheelworks build me a set of custom 24" wheels using Stan's Crest Mk III's, Sapim spokes, alloy nipples and Bitex hubs. Weight for the wheelset with tape and valve stems came out to 1323g.










Other parts I swapped out were as follows:
Bars: Easton EA90SL, carbon 20mm rise, 635mm width
Stem: Syntace Megaforce 2, 40mm
Saddle: T.H.E. Industries Icon youth saddle (the stock WTB saddle was a touch too big for my son)
Seatpost: Niner carbon, zero offset
Cassette: Sram XX 10 speed,11-36T
Skewers: Ebay titanium
Pedals: Wellgo (220g per pair)
Rotors: Ashima Ai2 -- 160mm

Some of the stock parts still on the bike include:

Sram S1000 crankset, 155mm crankarms, 30T chainring
Sram GX 10sp derailleur
Sram X5 10shifter
Shimano Deore level Brakes
Rockshox Recon Silver TK (air spring) fork, 100mm travel
Rockshox Monarch R shock

Final weight of the bike with mods is 23 lbs, 13oz.

My son loves it! We've ridden a couple of the local trails, and he was immediately faster and able to better travel along the rougher parts. He's on the small side for the bike. I think he might get about 4 good years of use on it before he's ready for a 26" bike.










All in, I guess put about $2200 into it, plus parts I had laying around.


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## jochribs (Nov 12, 2009)

AGarcia said:


> All in, I guess put about $2200 into it, plus parts I had laying around.


All in, bike plus upgrades? If so that's not too bad.


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

jochribs said:


> All in, bike plus upgrades? If so that's not too bad.


Actually, forgot to add in the cost of the tires and stem. It's more like $2350


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## markusarulius (Mar 7, 2010)

First. Money *is* an object for me - so that is why it took a significant amount of consideration before pulling the trigger on a new Spawn Cycles Rokkusuta for my 8 year old son. In my opinion it is a good value (seriously) for a high end kids bike (all things considered).

He has been on a 16" and a 20" Spawn so I'm confident in the quality of the bikes and know they are designed to work well. We looked at comparable options from Norco, Transition, Commencal, and Lil Shredder. The Rokkusuta came out on top as far as design, quality parts, weight and price.

Anyways, here are some images and sizing details that might be useful for any other parents interested in the Rokkusuta.

My son is 52.5" tall with a 23.5" inseam. The bike (which will be his only christmas present) is slightly too big for him now. But, by spring he will have grown into it. His 20" is already too small for him. I've also believed that a smaller bike is better, however this last summer I witnessed many kids ripping on too large bikes at Whistler and other parks and I'm sure the benefits of a larger more capable bike will out weigh the negatives. We mostly ride bike parks or shuttle trails, so the few true XC rides we do will no doubt be more challenging. I've included a couple side by side shots of the 20" and new 24" bike for comparison.

My stock Rokkusuta straight out of the box weighs 28.4lbs. I will be cutting the seat post and converting to tubeless right away. Then over time replace a few parts with lighter carbon components. The 20" Banshee weighs 22.5lbs.


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## Eric_Sulit (Jun 18, 2016)

Hi @Markusarulius, that bike looks awesome. Do you know the weight of it? The standover looks to be one of the lowest on a 24". 


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## markusarulius (Mar 7, 2010)

Eric_Sulit said:


> Hi @Markusarulius, that bike looks awesome. Do you know the weight of it? The standover looks to be one of the lowest on a 24".
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The stock Rokkusuta 24 straight out of the box weighed 28.4lbs.


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## Eric_Sulit (Jun 18, 2016)

Not bad. Thanks. 


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## AGarcia (Feb 20, 2012)

Very, very nice!!



markusarulius said:


> First. Money *is* an object for me


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## Eric_Sulit (Jun 18, 2016)

Hi @markusarulius one more question, I couldn't find the stand over height of the Rokkusta? And how are your kids finding the bike going uphill?


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## markusarulius (Mar 7, 2010)

Eric_Sulit said:


> Hi @markusarulius one more question, I couldn't find the stand over height of the Rokkusta? And how are your kids finding the bike going uphill?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hey Eric,

You can see the standover in the first few images - there is a tape measure behind the bike. The lowest Rokkusuta standover is 24" and the lowest seat height is about 27".



It has been -20C and very snowy since Christmas. So our maiden voyage was in a covered downtown parkade. My son could pedal it easily up the level ramps and he rode down a few small sets of stairs. I will say the bike is big for him, but he handled it fine. Specifically the long reach is not ideal for getting his weight forward while seated. I think the challenge would be on technical climbs where he will not be able to dab as easily. We are waiting for less cold weather to take it out onto some packed snow trails for a true test. Then I'll post an update oh how it went.


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## GSJ1973 (May 8, 2011)

markusarulius said:


> Hey Eric,
> 
> You can see the standover in the first few images - there is a tape measure behind the bike. The lowest Rokkusuta standover is 24" and the lowest seat height is about 27".


Great looking bike!

Actual standover height is going to be where you kid's butt goes while straddling the top tube, which is about 5-6 inches forward of your tape measure and just in front of the saddle nose. So more like center of the rear shock can I would say and more like 26" standover height judging by the pics.


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## lixxfe (Apr 19, 2012)

*21.27 Lb Ripcord*

Here's our 'money no-object' build. My 6 y/o and I put this together over the last few months. Only thing missing is a dropper post.

I'll just point out a few of the atypical things on the bike:
1. My boy is <48" tall and the ripcord, built up as standard, was too tall for him, even with the seat fully lowered using a standard (non-dropper) post. So the bike is short-shocked and forked. Converted a 100mm SID to 80mm, and replaced the standard 6.5x1.5 shock with a 6.0x1.25 shock with one offset bushing (another -2mm on shock length). No seat tube/tire contact even with the full 1.25" stroke. Spring curve probably is regressive over the last bit of travel since the linkage moves beyond perpendicular, but no real issues encountered so far. Seat height at center is about 26.5" and standover about 2" in front of seat nose is about 24.5".

2. RWC needle bearing installed in the rear shock eyelet to reduce force needed to initially compress the shock. Made a big difference, to the point that I no longer think it's necessary to get the shock custom tuned for his weight (about 45lb). Had to increase shock pressure to compensate for how easily the shock compresses now.

3. 1x10-42, 11sp drivetrain with XTR Di2 RD and shifter. Shifter springs replaced to reduce force needed to initiate shifts. Let's him shift faster and more often compared to stock and especially compared to mechanical shifters.


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## Smurf (May 10, 2006)

Nice! Really need to get my daughters ripcord build finished


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## lixxfe (Apr 19, 2012)

She'll love it. My boy won't ride his old 20" Lil Shredder Prodigy anymore, even though it fits him a bit better. Post up details when done.


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## Steve-XtC (Feb 7, 2016)

So .... what's the 2017 line-up and is it different ?

I did find Mondraker Factor 24 Kids Full Suspension MTB Bike

but it suffers from the "frame designed to take 26" wheel syndrome" and half the reason I'm looking for a 24 FS is because the geometry on the kids XC bike has really long chainstays....

I'm looking for something that is a kids version of a trail/enduro... not Stinky type weight ... and not XC racing weight... but just something that is more balanced geometry and medium travel

Something a bit easier to manual that doesn't want to dive off every drop-off that can still be pedalled 20 miles by a 7yr old...


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## RMCDan (Feb 28, 2008)

Flow Bikes is going to start making a 20/24 convertible FS frame: https://www.flowkidsbikes.com/full-suspension

Per information they sent me it will be available mid-summer. Not quite as appealing if you only need a 24", but if their hardtail is any indication the geo will be dialed.


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## silvascape (Sep 11, 2014)

Hi Steve-WtC
My 7 year old is currently racing Enduro on a Norco Fluid 24 and we are finding it to be a good compromise. Yes, it could do with some typical weight lowering - bars etc and at the moment he is too short to use the supplied dropper post so we have removed it but the suspension really works, its a reasonable weight (12kgs) and he can really throw it around - he manuals it very well and jumps and bunny hops it. He also has a Kona Stinky but reserves it for lift assisted riding - its just too heavy for him to haul up hills.


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