# carbon vs aluminum bars



## gabbard (Jan 13, 2004)

This must have been asked 100s of times, but my searches are not hitting.

Between a similar level carbon riser and aluminum riser (Ritchey WCS aluminum and carbon riser bar, or similar Easton carbon and aluminum risers, for example), is there comfort difference, or just a weight difference, and is the carbon durability greatly decreased? Weight is about 100 grams different, price is about $70-90 different. I am building a new bike (Ti 29er hardtail, 160 pound rider, XC use only, no big jumps or rough stuff), after not really having been in the market for a long time, and my previous bars have always been aluminum. The last time I built a bike, carbon bars were still a new idea, so not really trustworthy. I am willing to try a carbon bar and put out the extra money, but am I only saving 100 grams and giving up lots of durability? 

Thanks - Steve


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## eb1888 (Jan 27, 2012)

No durability problems for me with aggressive trail riding even clipping some trees and taking a few falls. The weight loss and added comfort you'll notice right away. The durability will grow on you.


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## TJay74 (Sep 26, 2012)

I've has 3T carbon riser bars on my bike for 3 years now. Hit several trees head on without any issues, even had a OTB last year at a race and hit the bars and still no issues.

As said the comfort you will notice immediately, I have carbon bars on my road bike now and it was a night and day difference.


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## bankerboy (Oct 17, 2006)

Pretty sure carbon is durable.









It is the weight and the vibration dampening that make it so damn sexy. I have been using Easton bars for nearly 10 years and crashed hard more times than I care to remember. NEVER broke the bars on either bike.

Aluminum are just as fine because they cost less but some of the qualities of the carbon bars are lost. Not a bad thing, just different.

Best thing you can do is borrow a bike that has a set of carbon bars. Surely you ride with somebody who has a set of bars. Just find a rock garden or very bumpy section and ride both sets of bars over it. Then you will know. That is the ONLY way you will ever figure out if they are right for you.

Or you can wait for your answer here and hear the following:

Yes...
No...
Sort of...
Maybe...

Or my personal favorite, "I heard from this guy who's friends ex-girlfriend's father-in-law was told by a shop mechanic that it will......."


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## gabbard (Jan 13, 2004)

Enough information for me - I'll go carbon. I assume all of the typical manufacturers make a quality product, assuming I don't go crazy light - Ritchey WCS carbon, Easton EC70, etc. Leaning towards Easton - they have been doing this a long time - but have always had good luck with Ritchey WCS components.


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## Berkeley Mike (Jan 13, 2004)

Yeah; carbon is the bomb-er.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Good alu bars ride quite a lot better than the 'cost sensitive' ones, and i bet that's true of carbon bars too, although i haven't used enough to have an opinion. Definitely, if you have a mediocre fork or are running goofy-low tire pressures you're not going to see what a bit of give at the bars is doing.

I've stuck with alu bars because i prefer a ton of rise (i'm tall) and they need more clamping torque to keep from rotating. Maybe i'll get come cf bars next time since wheels/forks are bigger now and i have 8oz of cf assembly paste on the shelf. Who knows!


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

Like Berkeley Mike said.


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## Betarad (Oct 24, 2009)

And like John Kuhl sed!

In my 15 years mountain biking, I’ve cracked a few aluminum parts, but have yet to break a carbon component.


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## onlycrimson (Nov 11, 2008)

I use the cheapo eBay carbon bars and I'm exactly the same rider and style as you. Yes they are maybe not safe, but I've ridden a lot and cracked a couple trees without any issues


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm also riding an inexpensive set of CF bars of chinese origin. While they're only a few months old, they've survived a bunch of 2 to 3 foot drops and falls from log bridges, and I'm no flyweight. They've taken a few hits from trees, and the occasional crash. So far so good, and confidence in them builds with every ride. One of the better 20 dollar purchases I've made - at least until I knock all my teeth out against the stem.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Hows the old saying go...
Carbon rules aluminum is for fools.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

I got my first carbon bars just this fall. What surprised me most was how much warmer they feel in the wintertime. I heard that they were, but it's really remarkable just how much so.


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## TBarnaby (Aug 1, 2008)

Harold said:


> I got my first carbon bars just this fall. What surprised me most was how much warmer they feel in the wintertime. I heard that they were, but it's really remarkable just how much so.


You should feel how warm they get after they explode due to the cold weather


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

TBarnaby said:


> You should feel how warm they get after they explode due to the cold weather


Urban Legend


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Harold said:


> I got my first carbon bars just this fall. What surprised me most was how much warmer they feel in the wintertime. I heard that they were, but it's really remarkable just how much so.


Simple heat transfer... Aluminum has high heat transfer and conducts head from your hands fast or to them when it is hot. Carbon has a much lower head transfer rate and thus "feels" warmer (or cooler when hot) than metals will even at the same temp.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

bankerboy said:


> Pretty sure carbon is durable.
> 
> View attachment 957817
> "


Yes, if you never crash.
See how durable CF is after that plane has crashed.
It's a screwed up analogy is you're comparing carbon bars to a bomber.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

SV11 said:


> Yes, if you never crash.
> See how durable CF is after that plane has crashed.
> It's a screwed up analogy is you're comparing carbon bars to a bomber.


F-15's use aluminum bars but with the F-16's they went with carbon bars and never looked back.


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## TBarnaby (Aug 1, 2008)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Urban Legend


Unless you use  , then it's real.


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## time229er (Oct 30, 2013)

gabbard said:


> This must have been asked 100s of times, but my searches are not hitting.
> 
> Between a similar level carbon riser and aluminum riser (Ritchey WCS aluminum and carbon riser bar, or similar Easton carbon and aluminum risers, for example), is there comfort difference, or just a weight difference, and is the carbon durability greatly decreased? Weight is about 100 grams different, price is about $70-90 different. I am building a new bike (Ti 29er hardtail, 160 pound rider, XC use only, no big jumps or rough stuff), after not really having been in the market for a long time, and my previous bars have always been aluminum. The last time I built a bike, carbon bars were still a new idea, so not really trustworthy. I am willing to try a carbon bar and put out the extra money, but am I only saving 100 grams and giving up lots of durability?
> 
> Thanks - Steve


You might also consider a bar that is both...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

time229er said:


> You might also consider a bar that is both...


What's that an aluminum bar with a fake carbon look? Carbon wrap. It makes no sense to me unless you're going for the "bling look" of carbon on an aluminum budget. There's no real performance benefit over aluminum bars just a different look.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

Harold said:


> I got my first carbon bars just this fall. What surprised me most was how much warmer they feel in the wintertime. I heard that they were, but it's really remarkable just how much so.


Yes, I went back to aluminum for a few days because I built up a 2nd fatbike and it was dramatic how much colder the grips were on that aluminum bar. Foam grips and carbon bar=warm, way better than aluminum. I wish there was a good carbon barrier like that on my pedals.

Carbon is not going to fail in cold temperature. Idiotic.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

SV11 said:


> Yes, if you never crash.
> See how durable CF is after that plane has crashed.
> It's a screwed up analogy is you're comparing carbon bars to a bomber.


Thanks, I investigate airplane crashes for a living. I'll tell you it makes no difference if something was made out of metal or carbon fiber when it crashes at many hundreds of mph, it's all tiny pieces.

If you want to see some amazing stats though, look at what helicopter rotors used to weigh in Vietnam on a UH-1 and look what the composite ones weigh on a UH-60, It's mind blowing how much better the strength to weight ratio is with the composites, and they can absorb several .50 cal rounds and keep going.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Carbon bar?

A fool and his money are easily parted...

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> Carbon bar?
> 
> A fool and his money are easily parted...
> 
> ...


Only one that has never used carbon bars would call out a fool.

These are Easton Monkey Lite carbons bought in 2000' and ridden for 15 years through the chunk with a 210 LB pilot. Switched from bike to bike over the years but still going strong without issue. I bought another one of the exact same model with a bit more width about 5 years ago *only* because they were on sale. Guess what they're still sitting in the box they came in because these ones haven't failed yet.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

Maybe he was talking about the fabled Inanimate Carbon Rod, mistaking it for a bar.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

Jayem said:


> Thanks, I investigate airplane crashes for a living. I'll tell you it makes no difference if something was made out of metal or carbon fiber when it crashes at many hundreds of mph, it's all tiny pieces.


Yeah theres a massive difference between metal and arbon fibre in the event of a crash, CF shatters into thousands of pieces, it's a fact not conjecture.
Both would be totalled, but CF can't withstand high impacts, its brittle in that regard, much more than metal.
I can't believe we're talking about bombers in a handlebar thread, where did it go wrong.....Oh I know.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Only one that has never used carbon bars would call out a fool.
> 
> These are Easton Monkey Lite carbons bought in 2000' and ridden for 15 years through the chunk with a 210 LB pilot. Switched from bike to bike over the years but still going strong without issue. I bought another one of the exact same model with a bit more width about 5 years ago *only* because they were on sale. Guess what they're still sitting in the box they came in because these ones haven't failed yet.


Carbon bar can't be a fool as it has no personality...

$100 extra to save 100g would be foolish :imho:

Nothing against carbon 

Sent from my Kin[G]_Pad ™


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> Carbon bar can't be a fool as it has no personality...
> 
> $100 extra to save 100g would be foolish :imho:
> 
> ...


See that's where you're missing the boat. Carbon dampens and flexes with little to zero vibration back to your hands. Better dampening by far, which correlates to less fatigue. Aluminum bars conduct cold and heat directly to your hands where carbon bars don't. Which make carbon bars much more comfortable in extreme temperatures. Just the feel of carbon alone is a selling point. No vibration or harsh hits. The carbon flexes and soaks up quite a bit whereas aluminum just doesn't. Add in the weight savings and the it has to be said the bling factor. Once you try them you'll never go back to aluminum.


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## bankerboy (Oct 17, 2006)

SV11 said:


> Yeah theres a massive difference between metal and arbon fibre in the event of a crash, CF shatters into thousands of pieces, it's a fact not conjecture.
> Both would be totalled, but CF can't withstand high impacts, its brittle in that regard, much more than metal.
> I can't believe we're talking about bombers in a handlebar thread, where did it go wrong.....Oh I know.


OK, Mr rocket scientist...

If you took the time to read (that means look at all the letters on the page, put them together, and have a cognitive thought) you would see it had nothing to do with the thread. You see, humor is not funny if you have to explain it. Go back and read EVERYTHING below the picture and maybe you will appreciate real world experience. Sheesh....


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> Good alu bars ride quite a lot better than the 'cost sensitive' ones, and i bet that's true of carbon bars too, although i haven't used enough to have an opinion. Definitely, if you have a mediocre fork or are running goofy-low tire pressures you're not going to see what a bit of give at the bars is doing.
> 
> I've stuck with alu bars because i prefer a ton of rise (i'm tall) and they need more clamping torque to keep from rotating. Maybe i'll get come cf bars next time since wheels/forks are bigger now and i have 8oz of cf assembly paste on the shelf. Who
> knows!


As far as clamping force and paste. I'm 6'0" 210lbs and have ridden the SAME set of Easton carbon bars for 15 years without paste and just clamped down to feel and they have never rotated or moved in all of those 15 years.


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

bankerboy said:


> OK, Mr rocket scientist...
> 
> If you took the time to read (that means look at all the letters on the page, put them together, and have a cognitive thought) you would see it had nothing to do with the thread. You see, humor is not funny if you have to explain it. Go back and read EVERYTHING below the picture and maybe you will appreciate real world experience. Sheesh....


Get off the drugs, you are the only asshat the compares a plane to a hbar. Humour? lmao


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Anybody have any popcorn this could get good.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> See that's where you're missing the boat. Carbon dampens and flexes with little to zero vibration back to your hands. Better dampening by far, which correlates to less fatigue. Aluminum bars conduct cold and heat directly to your hands where carbon bars don't. Which make carbon bars much more comfortable in extreme temperatures. Just the feel of carbon alone is a selling point. No vibration or harsh hits. The carbon flexes and soaks up quite a bit whereas aluminum just doesn't. Add in the weight savings and the it has to be said the bling factor. Once you try them you'll never go back to aluminum.


I'll take a bent bar over 1000 pieces any day ^^

(that's what other fella said would happen in a crash)...

I seldom bike in the Arctic/Sahara desert... plus my gloves and those grippy things keep my fingers away from touching bar directly 

For $100 extra, I'd want at least 250g in weight savings (not that I'm a weenie or anything) 

My 770mm, 330g alu bars rock 

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## SV11 (Jan 2, 2011)

targnik said:


> I'll take a bent bar over 1000 pieces any day ^^
> 
> (that's what other fella said would happen in a crash)..


The conversatoin was circled around CF planes, not handlebars, its much smaller and has less material compared to a plane, and you're not going as fast.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> I'll take a bent bar over 1000 pieces any day ^^
> 
> (that's what other fella said would happen in a crash)...
> 
> ...


What part of 15 years on the same carbon bars and 210 lbs of pilot without a problem don't you get. This is the type of riding I've done with them throughout. In fact this ride was rather tame compared to most.


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## targnik (Jan 11, 2014)

Carbon bars... 15 years on...

Must have paid what a decent alu bike would cost now!

-------------------------------------
Opinions are like A-holes... everybody 
has one & they're usually full of...??


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

targnik said:


> Carbon bars... 15 years on...
> 
> Must have paid what a decent alu bike would cost now!
> 
> ...


Easton Monkey Lites year 2000' $110.00.


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## panzer103 (Jun 23, 2008)

I ride carbon bars for about everything. But recently built up a single speed out of old parts and I put a carbon bar on it like normal but I found I needed more leverage. So the only wider bar I had was an aluminum 780mm unit. And my god, it feels rock sold and stiff! I forgot how stiff aluminum bars can be. The thing is, I kinda like it! I feel like a beast and just want to charge more. We'll see if the same feeling is there on my FS bike.


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## GhostOfForumsPast (Feb 16, 2016)

panzer103 said:


> I ride carbon bars for about everything. But recently built up a single speed out of old parts and I put a carbon bar on it like normal but I found I needed more leverage. So the only wider bar I had was an aluminum 780mm unit. And my god, it feels rock sold and stiff! I forgot how stiff aluminum bars can be. The thing is, I kinda like it! I feel like a beast and just want to charge more. We'll see if the same feeling is there on my FS bike.


Claiming that aluminum bars are "stiffer" than carbon bars is almost as sad as resurrecting an 18 month old thread to make that silly claim.

Bravo toolio!


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## Finch Platte (Nov 14, 2003)

GhostOfForumsPast said:


> Claiming that aluminum bars are "stiffer" than carbon bars is almost as sad as resurrecting an 18 month old thread to make that silly claim.
> 
> Bravo toolio!


Whatever happened to that NoBars company? They were aligned with that YesTubes company until they realized they couldn't make any money by NOT selling handlebars.


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## edubfromktown (Sep 7, 2010)

Resurrected thread/holy war... let the games BEGIN 

Carbon bars (got one set of Ti ones that I kina like too).

Alum bars today?

No WAY!​


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

GhostOfForumsPast said:


> Claiming that aluminum bars are "stiffer" than carbon bars is almost as sad as resurrecting an 18 month old thread to make that silly claim.
> 
> Bravo toolio!


Who cares? There's lots of materials you could make handlebars out of and they'd be great if well designed. I'm entertained by the dude with 26k posts talking about how his 16 year old handlebars are somehow relevant. F$%& i rode with a pro today that was younger than his handlebars...


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> Who cares? There's lots of materials you could make handlebars out of and they'd be great if well designed. I'm entertained by the dude with 26k posts talking about how his 16 year old handlebars are somehow relevant. F$%& i rode with a pro today that was younger than his handlebars...


And how relevant is the fact that you rode with a pro younger than those handlebars. Makes zero sense relative to this thread.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Adding this for consideration: 
Easton ec90sl Carbon riser bars. 2 years old. Always torqued with a beam-style wrench to spec.
Used for XC-style SS riding. No drops or jumps. Notice they failed nowhere near the stem or brakes.














I'm replacing them with some alloy bars.

edit: new post in an old thread. These bars broke on Friday while bunny-hopping off a curb in front of my house after bedding-in new brake pads.


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## bakerjw (Oct 8, 2014)

I have an aluminum Jones H-Bar and am looking to go with a carbon version in the future. On a rigid fork bikepacking build, the vibration damping sounds like it would be advantageous.

ETA - fix misused word.


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## MikeDee (Nov 17, 2004)

I can't believe all carbon bars are less stiff than aluminum bars. Carbon is much stiffer than aluminum. If the bars weigh the same, the carbon bar should be stiffer. I compared the weight of a Ritchey bar to my Easton EA70, and the weight was the same. I would bet the Ritchey bar was stiffer.

I think the problem is they go for light weight on carbon bars instead of durability. Unlike aluminum, carbon fiber has an almost infinite fatigue life.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

View attachment 1089291
View attachment 1089290
No more carbon bars for my singlespeed following a guy over a jump (waterbar) at Demo Forest, and seeing his bar break upon landing, 5 feet in front me. I landed and ran over him and his bike. He was ok. Broken EC 90. It was a warranty bar replacement from EASTON. I took off my Thomson Carbon Trail, back on Easton Haven Aluminum. I think the singlespeed climbing technique, of cranking on handlebars is detrimental to Carbon (and AL) unless carbon is made thicker, weighing the same as AL. As far as those 2000 MonkeyLite bars, what is the weight? I had those same bars for 1000 rides on an old Superlight with no issues. Thomson Carbon instructions call to replace carbon bar every season, read the fine print. Sold mine.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

My friend looking at that broken bar, took his carbon Thomson Trail, off of his bike too. He is running a red Spank OOZY, now. Looks awesome to have a color on bars. Once you see this failure in real life, it's pretty freaky. Our friend "G", could have been massively injured at Demo. Cliff fall, Tree impact, ground force trauma, etc. He was very fortunate. I would use DH carbon bar on a gear bike (but I don't anymore).


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

Resurrected thread, but I will add that switching from alloy to carbon bars on my rigid made a huge difference in ride feel in a positive way. The carbon bars actually have a little flex (went from Niner flat tops to low tops, same for both) which I only notice out of the saddle climbing, but it has no impact on me making the climb or not. Otherwise, my wrists are just happier.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

I disagree with the damping argument. With tires at 26 psi, and thick OURY grips, I have tried both Aluminum bars, and Carbon on my Hardtail singlespeed, trying to soften the vibration in my arms. I cannot tell the difference. This is no test, as I only tried Thomson Carbon Trail, your bar results may vary? Maybe some bars are stiffer or more flexible. The damping argument for me does not hold water. I think a blind test, on same bike, with a variety of bars, wrapped in a covering, is the only way to test. Carbon is awesome, just not for me.


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## hoolie (Sep 17, 2010)

One thing I find interesting, although Carbon bars have been around awhile, carbon on bikes is in its infancy. Steel and aluminum have been around for 100 (or more) years. Carbon has basically caught up with metal, so going forward, the Carbon products, designs, and manufacturing cost savings, are going to be very impressive I'm sure. We all know I will eventually roll on a full carbon bike, right?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

hoolie said:


> We all know I will eventually roll on a full carbon bike, right?


I've wondered this before as well. There's always gonna be some parts that stay metal: bearings and races, bolts, axles, etc. 
As I understand it, it's gonna be a long time before suspension parts are made of CF. especially the stanchions; even if lowers, crowns and steerers are carbon I don't see any internals being made out of CF.

If you're just taking 'for all intents and purposes', then we're basically there.

CF Frames, bars, stem, fork, seat post- easy. 
there are saddles that are 100% CF, others that are CF rails and frames, with padding over.
rims are obviously carbon.
A Gates belt drive can 'fudge' as carbon containing,
Vittoria graphene tires have 'carbon content' as well.

There are mtb wheels being developed that are improved versions of the old Aerospoke mag wheels with 3 big arms. That would eliminate alloy hubs and spokes.

I imagine brake calipers could be CF, brake levers and shifter paddles already are. 
even derailleurs can be mostly carbon fiber, except the pivots.

I think suspension is really that last major chunk of alloy on a bike. I don't see that changing in the future.
That, and chains, chainrings and cassettes/cogs.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

I've been contemplating the carbon bars for a while, just never got them put on. Maybe will soon...


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

A big benefit for us in cold climates is the reduced heat transfer, it's the real deal and significant.


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## Prophet Julio (May 8, 2008)

Maybe the new revolutionary suspension grips will make carbon bars meaningless. It's not about the weight right?


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

ARandomBiker said:


> Adding this for consideration:
> Easton ec90sl Carbon riser bars. 2 years old. Always torqued with a beam-style wrench to spec.
> Used for XC-style SS riding. No drops or jumps. Notice they failed nowhere near the stem or brakes.
> View attachment 1089272
> ...


These pictures are interesting because they show the failure mode of carbon bars. It appears similar to aluminum with a large crack instead of the often claimed thousands of pieces.


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

Curveball said:


> These pictures are interesting because they show the failure mode of carbon bars. It appears similar to aluminum with a large crack instead of the often claimed thousands of pieces.


I was pretty thankful that it didn't just 'snap'...and equally thankful that it happened in my driveway, not on the trail. 
It was an odd sensation. I popped off the curb and my left hand just kinda went 'mushy'. it took my brain a full second to interpret what happened, and when I looked, the grip was pointed about 20* downward.

Edit: I installed a set of RF Turbine bars on my bike last night.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

easton carbon bars



used a precision torque wrench and tacx paste and evenly and correctly torqued
steerer interface bolts to 5m each in a zig zag pattern and levers to 7nm 

and my ODI lockons to 'gutentite'


no ragrets


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

I remember seeing an article in MBA a long long time ago. They did a "blind" test between some carbon and aluminum bars. I can't recall the brands. The bars were covered with some cardboard to see to their riders can tell the difference. In the end...their riders were not able to tell a difference. Their advice in the end was to save the money and go with aluminum.

I run carbon bars on both my MTB's with ESI grips and an aluminum bar on my road bike.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

RS VR6 said:


> I remember seeing an article in MBA a* long long time ago*. They did a "blind" test between some carbon and aluminum bars. I can't recall the brands. The bars were covered with some cardboard to see to their riders can tell the difference. In the end...their riders were not able to tell a difference. Their advice in the end was to save the money and go with aluminum.
> 
> I run carbon bars on both my MTB's with ESI grips and an aluminum bar on my road bike.


I would hazard a guess that carbon bars from a long, long time ago may not be quite the same as those offered today. I'd guess that there's been some development of the material over the years.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Curveball said:


> I would hazard a guess that carbon bars from a long, long time ago may not be quite the same as those offered today. I'd guess that there's been some development of the material over the years.


I'm sure things have changed since then. It was probably some 10 (or more) years ago when that article was done. At the same time...I haven't really come across any publications as of late that have done any tests between carbon and aluminum bars.

From my own experience I want to say there is a difference. I went from an Easton EA70 to a Niner RDO and swear that I can feel a difference. The joints between my knuckles used to be sore after a ride with the EA70. After the Niner carbon...it went away. Then again...I went from carbon to aluminum on my road bike and can't tell much of a difference.

My GF went to an aluminum Loaded bar, to an Easton EC70, now an Niner RDO. When I ask her if she notices a difference...she just shrugs.

I still think it's all in your head...if you just spent 150 bucks on a carbon bar...you'll want to think it works. :idea:


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

RS VR6 said:


> I still think it's all in your head...if you just spent 150 bucks on a carbon bar...you'll want to think it works. :idea:


That wouldn't surprise me!


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

RS VR6 said:


> From my own experience I want to say there is a difference. I went from an Easton EA70 to a Niner RDO and swear that I can feel a difference. The joints between my knuckles used to be sore after a ride with the EA70. After the Niner carbon...it went away. Then again...I went from carbon to aluminum on my road bike and can't tell much of a difference.


Shoot, i can feel a difference between aluminum bars, even if they have the same rise and sweep. It's not just the material, it's the execution. I'd expect a smaller person with less upper body strength isn't gonna notice flex like a big guy would.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

without context, IMHO...any discussion of carbon snapping is p***in in the wind

this whole discussion is useless unless you specifically state 
what make and model and revision of carbon bar

and

was it installed correctly. you cannot ham-fist carbon components like aluminum

----
the material, and layup, and resin, and everything is extremely customizable and carbon parts vary greatly in feel, flex, and crash resistance. lots of companies can make carbon stuff but only a few spend the big dollars on research and testing and continual improvement. hell I can go get some carbon weave and some resin and build a carbon bar that looks great, but is literally sh*t when it comes to performing

also when talking about a cracked carbon bar, there are a things to ask such
as: did the owner over torque it, did they wreck 80 times and then it broke later ?

too many things unknown here and all some people can say is 'ohhh failed carbon'

well, I been running carbon for years...bike frames, wheels, handlebars, seatpost..etc and none of this crap is snapping or breaking or cracking (except my Trek 5500 BB which I got a new frame out of..it got a hairline crack in the paint) and yes I pick components that flex a bit more than aluminum does. for the feels. my easton ec90 seatpost bends back and forth just enough to take the edge off my hardtail adventures. aluminum is noticeably harsher, same with my handlebars...alum blows, carbon ahhhhhh nicer. and it doesn't feel dead either. quick, snappy, and flexible. carbon rocks if done right.

so...


----------



## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

127.0.0.1 said:


> was it installed correctly. you cannot ham-fist carbon components like aluminum
> 
> the material, and layup, and resin, and everything is extremely customizable and carbon parts vary greatly in feel, flex, and crash resistance. lots of companies can make carbon stuff but only a few spend the big dollars on research and testing and continual improvement. hell I can go get some carbon weave and some resin and build a carbon bar that looks great, but is literally sh*t when it comes to performing
> 
> ...


...i can spend 2x the money and get a more fragile part that might not even ride any better than a quality aluminum option? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

Funny how people are complaining about the carbon bars being dangerous yet I wonder how many have carbon frames and think they are fine. I will eventually get a set of carbon bars and find out for myself. Shouldn't you be avoiding putting your weight on the bars anyway?


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

ARandomBiker said:


> Adding this for consideration:
> Easton ec90sl Carbon riser bars. 2 years old. Always torqued with a beam-style wrench to spec.
> Used for XC-style SS riding. No drops or jumps. Notice they failed nowhere near the stem or brakes.


I rode a bike with those bars once and they scared the hell out of me with how much they were flexing. Between the bars and the Furious Fred tires on the bike, it was probably the scariest couple hours I've ever had on a bike.  I can't say I'm too surprised that the bars snapped on you, cause let me tell you, I was expecting the ones on the test bike to let go at any minute and put my face first into the stem.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I don't want to sound like a broken record but: Refer to post #25 in this thread. Now view this video of my 210lbs to 220lbs over the years riding these type of trails the whole time on Easton Monkey Lite Carbon bars since 2000. On and off the bike and switched from bikes and always hand torqued to feel and never a fail. In my mind these guys with failed carbon bars are doing something wrong. Like cranking them down like they are in labor pushing out a baby.

5-8-2014 DBB rain ride #9 The Finally Video - Pinkbike


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

*Why my carbon bars will never break...*

Modern active carbon fracture control is generally achieved through the use of digital regonkulating frequency circuit signal processing. Adaptive algorithms are designed to analyze the waveform of the background aural or nonaural noise that can cause carbon bar failures, then based on the specific algorithm generate a signal that will either phase shift or invert the polarity of the original signal and prevent the bars from failing when they shouldn't. This inverted signal (in antiphase) is then amplified and a transducer creates a sound wave directly proportional to the amplitude of the original carbon waveform, creating non-destructive interference. This effectively reduces the probability of the perceivable fracture opportunity.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I don't want to sound like a broken record but: Refer to post #25 in this thread. Now view this video of my 210lbs to 220lbs over the years riding these type of trails the whole time on Easton Monkey Lite Carbon bars since 2000. On and off the bike and switched from bikes and always hand torqued to feel and never a fail. In my mind these guys with failed carbon bars are doing something wrong. Like cranking them down like they are in labor pushing out a baby.
> 
> 5-8-2014 DBB rain ride #9 The Finally Video - Pinkbike


I'd expect a broom handle would hold up under that usage. No jumps, no drops, and you walked the rock gardens. Beginner/ intermediate XC. Nice job buzzing the hiker @ 9:20 though.


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

scottzg said:


> ...i can spend 2x the money and get a more fragile part that might not even ride any better than a quality aluminum option? Not exactly a ringing endorsement.


2x the money? All three of my carbon bars cost a whopping $80 each (all niner, and yes, on sale). I don't find them fragile, although I always use a torque wrench, regardless of material. And they very definitely offer an improvement in ride quality, especially on my rigid. I won't use alloy bars any time soon, although I am keeping the ones I have in case I am building a bike and need a placeholder.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

garcia said:


> 2x the money? All three of my carbon bars cost a whopping $80 each (all niner, and yes, on sale). I don't find them fragile, although I always use a torque wrench, regardless of material. And they very definitely offer an improvement in ride quality, especially on my rigid. I won't use alloy bars any time soon, although I am keeping the ones I have in case I am building a bike and need a placeholder.


I was just teasing Numbers about his negative assessment with positive conclusion. Actually, yours is the same- 'they're the same price and durable enough, since i get the unpopular ones on sale and use a tq wrench.' You guys should write for Pinkbike.

Personally, i think suspension/tires is where you get your ride quality and handlebars are just for getting your hands in the right spot. Not worth fussing over the minor differences unless it's all you've got to work with. This thread is funny!


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

scottzg said:


> I was just teasing Numbers about his negative assessment with positive conclusion. Actually, yours is the same- 'they're the same price and durable, since i get the unpopular ones on sale and use a tq wrench.' You guys should write for Pinkbike.
> 
> Personally, i think suspension/tires is where you get your ride quality and handlebars are just for getting your hands in the right spot. Not worth fussing over the minor differences unless it's all you've got to work with. This thread is funny!


Got it! While I agree about tires, I was already running 2.35's at low pressure tubeless on a rigid when I switched from an alu to carbon bar, and I did notice a big difference. That said, I have read that the Niner bars are seen as a little flexy, so that is certainly a part of it. A carbon bar designed with ultimate stiffness would likely feel the same as any stiff alloy bar.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> I'd expect a broom handle would hold up under that usage. No jumps, no drops, and you walked the rock gardens. Beginner/ intermediate XC. Nice job buzzing the hiker @ 9:20 though.


Well that was an asinine response. I was certainly not bragging about my riding just stating that they've held up to rock gardens and some small drops and jumps with my heft for all these years. I would say that speaks volumes for how they are installed. People who torque them down too hard are the ones I would suspect are having issues with failures. As for no jumps in that video if you look at 4:17 of the video I went off a jump that actually snapped my main pivot bolt. You'll notice my shifting went out of alignment after that. I didn't realize the bolt broke and pressed on. I didn't find out until later inspection. The bolt broke but the bars stayed in tact as they have for umpteen years.

May I also add that I think some riders ride hard on bars without using their body [arms and legs] as natural shock absorbers. I grew up riding motocross and learned at a young age to ride light. Meaning less bar and pedal pressure do to legs and arms acting as shock absorbers. This may also factor in to some bars failing while others don't.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Carbon bars have held up well for me. I own 3 of them and no issues. 1 pair actually have a few gouges out of the carbon between the stem and controls on the left side. Those have been to the bike park 3 times this year with my 230lbs pushing them around. My Enve risers are a few years old now and survived a year of riding at the bikepark as well.

I have nerve damage in my left hand which bothers me after riding for awhile. When I switched to carbon I noticed a difference in my hands comfort. I started switching out to carbon on all bikes after that.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

Cleared2land said:


> Modern active carbon fracture control is generally achieved through the use of digital regonkulating frequency circuit signal processing. Adaptive algorithms are designed to analyze the waveform of the background aural or nonaural noise that can cause carbon bar failures, then based on the specific algorithm generate a signal that will either phase shift or invert the polarity of the original signal and prevent the bars from failing when they shouldn't. This inverted signal (in antiphase) is then amplified and a transducer creates a sound wave directly proportional to the amplitude of the original carbon waveform, creating non-destructive interference. This effectively reduces the probability of the perceivable fracture opportunity.


This doesn't sound right, 
but I don't know enough about regonkulating frequencies to dispute it.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> As for no jumps in that video if you look at 4:17 of the video I went off a jump that actually snapped my main pivot bolt.


That was a small load; that bolt almost certainly came loose some time ago and finally gave out from shear. It's ironic you post a video with a failure due to an improperly torqued bolt and lambast users for failed parts due to the possibility improperly torqued bolts. I'm glad you didn't suffer for it.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

127.0.0.1 said:


> This doesn't sound right,
> but I don't know enough about regonkulating frequencies to dispute it.


What a novel ideal though, active fracture cancelling handlephones. When they break, You may still lose all your teeth, but at least you wont hear it coming. And really, isn't that the worst part?


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## Impetus (Aug 10, 2014)

127.0.0.1 said:


> without context, IMHO...any discussion of carbon snapping is p***in in the wind
> 
> this whole discussion is useless unless you specifically state
> what make and model and revision of carbon bar
> ...


I see this a lot as well, and I didn't intend my post to come off as fear-mongering, but then I also answered the questions you asked: ec90sl, used for XC, no big jumps/drops, I didn't explicitly say no hard crashes, but it's on a singlespeed that is a 'play-bike' so...no, I didn't crash 80 times. Bars were torqued to 6nm or less, with carbon paste applied, using a beam-style wrench. Also notice that the didn't fail anywhere near a clamping surface. They failed where the riser turns to flaring the grip side.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> That was a small load; that bolt almost certainly came loose some time ago and finally gave out from shear. It's ironic you post a video with a failure due to an improperly torqued bolt and lambast users for failed parts due to the possibility improperly torqued bolts. I'm glad you didn't suffer for it.


Let me guess your name is really Chip and not Scott.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Let me guess your name is really Chip and not Scott.


???


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

127.0.0.1 said:


> This doesn't sound right,
> but I don't know enough about regonkulating frequencies to dispute it.





GuitsBoy said:


> What a novel ideal though, active fracture cancelling handlephones. When they break, You may still lose all your teeth, but at least you wont hear it coming. And really, isn't that the worst part?


Ok, you get this. Noise attenuation principles applied to reducing carbon failures through use of regonkulating frequencies. Simple concept.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

I want to say riding techniques make all the difference but they still shouldn't snap like that at the taper. Even the best riders will have moments when they load a lot of their body weight on the bars. It happens. I wonder if width is the issue. DJ how wide are your bars? 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## aerius (Nov 20, 2010)

Cleared2land said:


> Ok, you get this. Noise attenuation principles applied to reducing carbon failures through use of regonkulating frequencies. Simple concept.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Terranaut said:


> I want to say riding techniques make all the difference but they still shouldn't snap like that at the taper. Even the best riders will have moments when they load a lot of their body weight on the bars. It happens. I wonder if width is the issue. DJ how wide are your bars?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Narrow by today's standards at 609 mm.


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I don't want to sound like a broken record but: Refer to post #25 in this thread. Now view this video of my 210lbs to 220lbs over the years riding these type of trails the whole time on Easton Monkey Lite Carbon bars since 2000. On and off the bike and switched from bikes and always hand torqued to feel and never a fail. In my mind these guys with failed carbon bars are doing something wrong. Like cranking them down like they are in labor pushing out a baby.
> 
> 5-8-2014 DBB rain ride #9 The Finally Video - Pinkbike


Right on.... I bought two Monkey Lites 3 years ago on clearance from somewhere, older smaller dia.. I remember those things being way flexy compared to my ENVE Sweeps, but never had a problem. Tbh i think the Sweeps are a tad stiff...assuming u were looking for some give, the MLs ride pretty nice.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## zephxiii (Aug 12, 2011)

Oh and i guess to the original OP...

With quality name brand bars, durability is there and shouldn't be a question so long as usage is within intended design. 

Comfort is a benefit but it will vary with design and build. My Sweeps are pretty stiff but have some give to them still, they could have a little more give though. The Monkey Lites made a huge difference in comfort. 

I really want some carbon bars on my road bike to add comfort but those bars are a bit more pricey than mtb bars. 



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

zephxiii said:


> Oh and i guess to the original OP...
> 
> With quality name brand bars, durability is there and shouldn't be a question so long as usage is within intended design.
> 
> ...


Easton are the pioneers in the carbon bar world. With that said there are plenty of good companies making quality carbon bars. But Easton has always been at the top.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I have a couple of carbon Eastons that have been beaten and crashed multiple times, and have remained remarkably in great shape free of fractures or breaks.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

garcia said:


> running 2.35's at low pressure tubeless on a rigid when I switched from an alu to carbon bar, and I did notice a big difference. .


I noticed that also , less harshness felt in the hands and forearms. On my suspension bike i probably couldn't notice the difference but overall the carbon helps keep the bike weight tolerable


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Narrow by today's standards at 609 mm.


I figured from 2000. I would love to know the bar sizes of some of the pictured bars that failed. Maybe a heavy rider with wide bars is the factor here. Mechanical advantage putting increased stress over the shorter bar maybe? I'm currently a 225lb+ rider but due to trees I use a 680mm bar so I am very interested in the answer to this seeing as I am currently looking at carbon bars.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

spurious said:


> Had two sets of Eastons replaced under warranty due to poor engineering and cracking. Sold them, moved on to better bars and have never considered Easton again.
> 
> View attachment 1090287


That's part of the cosmetic top layer they put on and not structural in the way you think it is.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

spurious said:


> Had two sets of Eastons replaced under warranty due to poor engineering and cracking. Sold them, moved on to better bars and have never considered Easton again.
> 
> View attachment 1090287


Could it be that those are FleaBay knock off's? Stranger things and all that.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

tiretracks said:


> Could it be that those are FleaBay knock off's? Stranger things and all that.


I doubt Easton would replace them if they weren't genuine.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

*I'm not buying what you're selling.*



spurious said:


> Nope. It was a structural issue (layup seam) and was the reason why both bars were replaced under warranty by Easton.
> 
> It's not the "way I think it is" but rather the determination of the manufacturer. Known problem at the time.


Something smells fishy here. Two sets of bars, same person same spot on the bars. In the same spot where clamping of the stem is applied. Care to post up the warranty claim paperwork from Easton.









We won't even mention that you only have 15 posts to your credit and a full line of *RED Chicklets.* Kinda makes me wonder if you are even a legit rider or just a sock of one.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

spurious said:


> Not a "legit rider" because I posted some facts that contradict your specious claim? Right...
> 
> How about a bunch of other folks that had the same problem with the same handlebar:
> 
> ...


Back up your claims with some legit warranty claim paperwork from Easton, as I suggested, and I'll go away.

Bring on the proof that's all we ask. For some reason people on here think [macho] if they are a better rider than another they have open forum to make claims. I say bring on the proof, I did.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

spurious said:


> Ride more, speculate less. You'll look like less of an idiot. Maybe.


You still must have earned all of those red chicklets in a very few posts. I'm getting the feel for how those might have happened.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Easton has had quality issues off and on over the decades, part of being on the cutting edge of technology. Broken aluminum bars in the 90's as I recall, it was baseball bats before that and arrow shafts afterwards. I wouldn't expect that carbon should be any different. It doesn't condemn the material though. My two cents.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

spurious said:


> No paperwork as it was over a decade ago.
> 
> If you can find someone to read and explain the link to you, you should understand that it was a common problem. If not, that's another problem that you have.
> 
> Again, Easton has not "always been on top" as you have erroneously claimed.


Thanks, I had a friend read that link to me. Now I somewhat comprehend what your are claiming.

Still in my long lived experience and long lived reading these forums I've seen very few claims and even fewer proof to said claims to what you are claiming. Paperwork really does wonders in claims like this. That link is nothing more than an over exaggerated claim link similar to yours in my view.

Many "claim" these failures yet I have yet to see proof.

I don't work for Easton, I've just been a long time advocate from my great over the top experiences using their products.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Almost any early development of a fabricated or manufactured component that gets subjected to rigors and stresses of the mountain bike world will find its limits. The objective of most who develop and market these items is to simply hope the learning curve is a short one.


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

I like carbon bars too, in fact most popular bike frames are carbon anyways. They take the rough out of the ride. My bike is mostly carbon equipped. But I didn't trust the cheaper Crank Bros carbon Iodine bars, so I went to Performance Bike and purchased their house brand carbon bars. They're a thicker diameter and if they crack and I get injured, Performance Bicycle is an easier outfit to tackle for my lawyer than Easton.


But I doubt if they are going to crack, like I mentioned, they are a pretty thick diameter and should be since they sell 100's to both novice and experienced bikers everyday.

I have Crank Bros Cobalt 11 carbon bars on another bike. I think the 11's are a quality product as well, it better be it costs as much as a kidney. 

Carbon bars are sweet but for hard riding I'd get EA90's, they are lighter than most alloy bars and pretty strong. However for XC and trail riding carbon bars can't be beat. Alloy bars are dated like cars and trucks with front drum brakes--and just like them, you gotta make the conversion.


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## Shark (Feb 4, 2006)

targnik said:


> I'll take a bent bar over 1000 pieces any day ^^
> 
> (that's what other fella said would happen in a crash)...
> 
> ...


You think your aluminum bars are going to *bend*? good luck with that. It'll be a nice sharp crack if they ever do fail.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

For those that haven't seen this, Enve DH bar testing. I'd love to see a comparison video of some popular aluminum bars doing this.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

A couple of thoughts here:

I don't doubt that failures of carbon bars do occur, even with proper installation. Any and all bike components can and do fail. I think it would be informative to look at the rate of failure. My guess would be that carbon bars likely have a lower overall failure rate than aluminum. Not a big comfort if the bars that do fail happen to be yours. But, I think you're more likely to get a good carbon bar than an aluminum one. Unless you buy a knockoff from ebay. Then all bets are off.

It would appear from the photographic evidence, that claims of catastrophic failure isn't supported. The failure modes seen here are similar to aluminum and so far nobody has presented any evidence to the contrary.

For comfort, I think that carbon bars can be more forgiving than aluminum, or stiffer. It's possible to engineer carbon in more ways than aluminum and so you can design for a wider range of flexibility depending on the goals of the product.

I could definitely use a more comfortable bar and will likely go carbon.


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## natrat (Mar 20, 2008)

spurious said:


> numerous folks that had issues with their bars.


unless easton carbon bars statistically fail more than other companies' similar carbon bars, which i seriously doubt, there is no issue here just your bias, which is fine but meaningless to anyone else


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

I just found his same pics posted by John Galt on another forum here....dumbass liar!!
http://www.bikeforums.net/mountain-biking/235542-broken-carbon-bars-2.html

Can someone swing the banstick now please!

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I found that same picture earlier on the same forum by yet another person earlier, I think it was 2005ish. You guys are soooo uptight and to be wasting your Saturday searching the net for stuff. If my shoulder wasn't destroyed the last place I'd be is inside on the web!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Technology and advances in Carbon Fiber, the construction, weave and fabrication have come a long ways since that thread was posted (10 years ago).


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

Let me put it this way, carbon bars are good. But I'll change them every 3 years if they were on my ONLY bike. I have 3 bikes wth carbon so they should last longer since I alternate, also they are not Chinese-knock offs from eBay or Amazon or Alibababah.

Dirtjunkie's 15 yr old Eastons are an exception. And he's riding them on luck. Personally, I would have changed them at least a decade and a half ago with new ones. I would not wait until they go bad to change carbon bars or carbon anything. I'm guessing he's retired by the signs of him still riding a 26er as well, beit a nice one that was prob $2700 back in 2000. But older people don't like spending money on new stuff and I can't blame them due to their limited funds.

So there's your answer. Enjoy carbon but it won't last as long as an old tech alloy bar.
Ride hard? Get an alloy bar. Like carbon? Change it every 3 years if thats your ONLY ride. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Carbon's lightweight and good feeling comes at a price. Alloy's rough riding and durablity comes at a price. 

Having a beautiful girlfriend or wife and you being ugly comes at a price. (gotta spend $$$ to keep her happy) Having a homely wife or girlfriend and you being ugly comes at a price(you wont have to spend much money) My wife's no longer attractive so thats why I now can buy carbon stuff.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I <3 this thread, I got 5 more weeks of no riding minimum keep it going guys!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

fatcat said:


> So there's your answer. Enjoy carbon but it won't last as long as an old tech alloy bar.
> Ride hard? Get an alloy bar. Like carbon? Change it every 3 years if thats your ONLY ride. You can't have your cake and eat it too.


I'm interested to know if you have any carbon related industry or trade research, reports or publications to support this claim that properly fabricated (not knock-off cheap stuff) carbon won't last or has a life limit of three years.

Or, is your advice based on a personal opinion or preference?


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

fatcat said:


> Having a beautiful girlfriend or wife and you being ugly comes at a price. (gotta spend $$$ to keep her happy) Having a homely wife or girlfriend and you being ugly comes at a price(you wont have to spend much money) My wife's no longer attractive so thats why I now can buy carbon stuff.


I have a gorgeous wife and I am only so so. She costs me next to nothing. Why? I treat her awsome and keep her happy between the sheets. No extra money required and in fact she has a higher income than me. The big O is king here! So although I can agree with the rest of the post....this isn't a good analogy ;-)

I found this pic posted out of trying to find stats for breakage. Alloy vs carbon. I doubt there is much of a spread between the two nowadays. Maybe when carbon was new but I doubt it now. Also aluminum seldom bends. It just snaps so an aluminum failure will be similar with cracking then snapping completely.

This thread has me looking for carbon bars now. Maybe next week I will make it happen.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cleared2land said:


> I'm interested to know if you have any carbon related industry or trade research, reports or publications to support this claim that properly fabricated (not knock-off cheap stuff) carbon won't last or has a life limit of three years.
> 
> Or, is your advice based on a personal opinion or preference?


Apparently my numerous posts boasting of the longevity of my Easton Carbon bars went skimmed right over by him.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

is it just me or are steel handlebars starting to sound good?


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

*OneSpeed* said:


> is it just me or are steel handlebars starting to sound good?


Look at my signature line. That bike had steel bars on it. Doesn't look very sturdy does it? Rickety old bike anyway.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fatcat said:


> Having a beautiful girlfriend or wife and you being ugly comes at a price. (gotta spend $$$ to keep her happy) Having a homely wife or girlfriend and you being ugly comes at a price(you wont have to spend much money) My wife's no longer attractive so thats why I now can buy carbon stuff.


lol, you're a real sweetheart, your wife must love you!


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

I regret checking this thread


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

J.B. Weld said:


> lol, you're a real sweetheart, your wife must love you!


Holy crap, I must have skimmed that post with all trash back and forth posting.

A real catch he is.

Travis, I'm in the same boat but stuck now.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I typed Easton carbon bar problems into the search bar. Obviously there is a ton of for sale, reviews but I stumbled across these pretty fast.

Dangers of carbon handlebars - bikejournal.com forum

Cozy Beehive: Easton EC90 SLX Handlebar Failure, Failed Fork Forensics From MIT

I don't care one way or the other, I don't have their bars. Heck my carbon cranks have chunks missing out of them and no issues. I was just curious and stuck home so I googled it.


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

Last clean-up. Please don't screw it up. 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one is entitled to insulting and name calling. State your opinions, your disagreements, in a respectful manner. If you can't do that, than you may want to abstain from debates.


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## John Kuhl (Dec 10, 2007)

If carbon is only good for 3 years than the Navy should have stopped flying
the F18 a long time ago.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

If you're comparing like for like (same width, etc, intended use) can carbon bars take some of the trail buzz out?
I've got Boobars on my current bike and have ordered some 780mm carbon bars so can't compare until they arrive, I figure it's a good time to shorten the stem by 10mm as well.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Notched said:


> If you're comparing like for like (same width, etc, intended use) can carbon bars take some of the trail buzz out?


Potentially. Carbon can be stiffer or softer than aluminum at a given weight. It's small potatoes compared to quality suspension that's tuned somewhat decently.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

*OneSpeed* said:


> is it just me or are steel handlebars starting to sound good?


I put carbon DH bars on my AM bike a few years ago. These things are seriously thick and overkill, which is exactly what I want for handlebars. I trust them way more than what 99.9% of people are running for aluminum bars. No weight penalty compared to what most people are running, but far stronger (because most people aren't running DH bars).


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

scottzg said:


> It's small potatoes compared to quality suspension that's tuned somewhat decently.


I'm working on the second part! I like twirling knobs with the best of them.


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> I'm interested to know if you have any carbon related industry or trade research, reports or publications to support this claim that properly fabricated (not knock-off cheap stuff) carbon won't last or has a life limit of three years.
> 
> Or, is your advice based on a personal opinion or preference?


Its basically common sense. If you ride just one bike about 330 days a year, 990 days
in 3 years, your chain, tires, grips and drivetrain will prob be worn out not to mention your fork and shock will need to be serviced. Riding off road is punishment to most parts on a bike, not to mention your own body. Also it depends on where you ride.

Rocky and rooty terrain will really beat up your bike. Desert sand and rocks will eventually ruin your drive train. Rain and snow doesn't help either.

So that being said, why wouldn't anyone switch out a carbon bar after 990 days of ruthless riding. Worse scenario is with a rigid fork. The only reasons I can see is first & foremost is the rider's cheapness because its the same guy who leaves $1 for the bartender after downing 4 IPA's....basically waiting for disaster to strike so you can post online that your bar cracked.


----------



## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

Terranaut said:


> I have a gorgeous wife and I am only so so. She costs me next to nothing.


I'll be the judge of that, please post up a recent pic


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

John Kuhl said:


> If carbon is only good for 3 years than the Navy should have stopped flying
> the F18 a long time ago.


maybe...
https://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/06/02/navy-blue-angel-jet-crashes-tennessee/85310876/


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> And how relevant is the fact that you rode with a pro younger than those handlebars. Makes zero sense relative to this thread.


I agree with DJ unless he's his .....no! that's also illegal!


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> lol, you're a real sweetheart, your wife must love you!


I hope so JB, last March she wanted this and it was a bit more than Enve carbon bars


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

fatcat said:


> Its basically common sense.


not arguing, just asking. do you know this as fact or is it your opinion?

i thought the fatigue life of carbon was higher than aluminum, and it could handle more stress cycles than aluminum without losing any strength. if they're not abused would they not easily last longer than 3 years? i'm not suggesting it's a lifetime investment by any means, but this is the first time i've heard of it having such a short lifespan.

if carbon bars fatigue so quickly as you say, is the same true for a carbon frame, or a carbon fork? should i plan on replacing a carbon frame every 3 years? surely a frame takes more of a pounding than bars.


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## fatcat (Mar 11, 2006)

*OneSpeed* said:


> not arguing, just asking. do you know this as fact or is it your opinion?
> 
> i thought the fatigue life of carbon was higher than aluminum, and it could handle more stress cycles than aluminum without losing any strength. if they're not abused would they not easily last longer than 3 years? i'm not suggesting it's a lifetime investment by any means, but this is the first time i've heard of it having such a short lifespan.
> 
> if carbon bars fatigue so quickly as you say, is the same true for a carbon frame, or a carbon fork? should i plan on replacing a carbon frame every 3 years? surely a frame takes more of a pounding than bars.


You could believe it or not, but most of my active carbon riding road friends switch out every 3 years. They usually only own one bike full Dura Ace or Ultegra. They tell me despite the leaps and bounds in carbon fiber tech, they say flex starts happening and so it time to sell and get a new one.

They sell them cheap to usually a newbie who won't abuse them like they do.

I plan to sell my carbon hardtail in maybe 5 years because I switch out on rides every 3 times with the other bikes, but if it were my daily driver, I would sell it in 3 years.
I just can't see riding a 10 yr or older carbon on the trails and feeling good about it.
Sometimes when I get out of the saddle on my new CF bike, I hear minor creaks, I'd hate to see what kinds of noises after 10 years.

CF riders are different riders than aluminum ones. They dont mind paying more for the sport. Just like as a newb with a $300 26er is compared to a $2500 full suspension alloy rider.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fatcat said:


> You could believe it or not, but most of my active carbon riding road friends switch out every 3 years. They usually only own one bike full Dura Ace or Ultegra. They tell me despite the leaps and bounds in carbon fiber tech, they say flex starts happening and so it time to sell and get a new one.


That's bs^ A carbon fiber bike frame is just as rigid on it's last day as it is when it's brand new.

And if your bike is creaking you should fix it.


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

I'm surprised people are saying that CF bars should be replaced more often than aluminum. Aluminum has a finite fatigue life, so if you're a heavy rider or they're lightweight bars and there might be some microscopic amount of flex occurring in them as you ride, they will weak and get closer to failing over time. CF theoretically should be similar in that respect. So the harder you push a lightweight bar, the shorter its lifespan. 

Pretty much the only bars that won't have that concern is steel, where there's no fatigue unless you beat on them hard enough to permanently deform them.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

fatcat said:


> I hope so JB, last March she wanted this and it was a bit more than Enve carbon bars


That looks fake. A shady looking character who went by the name of Primo tried to sell me one that looked just like that for 300 pesos in Nogales.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

comptiger5000 said:


> Pretty much the only bars that won't have that concern is steel, where there's no fatigue unless you beat on them hard enough to permanently deform them.


Steel definitely has a limited fatigue life. One advantage of carbon is that unless damaged it has a near unlimited fatigue lifespan. In theory anyway.


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

Steel does not have the same fatigue problems as aluminum. There's a reason the coil springs under a car or in a fork don't just snap after a certain number of cycles. If you deform steel less than a certain amount, it'll bounce back with no lasting effects. If you deform it beyond that, you'll weaken it (and this can be detected, because it'll be permanently bent, even if only very slightly). 

With aluminum, any deformation at all weakens it slightly, leading to eventual failure if it's run long enough. In the case of most bars, it would probably take quite a while to reach this point unless it's a heavy rider pushing a lightweight aluminum bar pretty hard (more deformation will take less cycles to weaken to the same point). This is why we don't see aluminum springs and such used anywhere. They'd have to be monitored for how much they've been cycled and would need to be retired at a certain point to avoid them failing. 

Fatigue properties of carbon can vary. Depending on how the carbon is built, it's entirely possible for them to have better fatigue properties than aluminum.


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

there are too many conflicting opinions being thrown around, it's hard to read between the lines. can anyone provide factual data to support their claims? please no wiki facts or reddit references, real sources only.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

*OneSpeed* said:


> there are too many conflicting opinions being thrown around, it's hard to read between the lines. can anyone provide factual data to support their claims? please no wiki facts or reddit references, real sources only.


I have looked for this exactly. Everything is "in my experience " . Some comparative data is needed here. I know aluminum bars fail too but in comparison to carbon what are the real world numbers? Maybe carbon failures are fewer? Can't tell from threads like this. Warranty numbers from the manufacturer would be a key indicator.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I don't want to sound like a broken record but: Refer to post #25 in this thread. Now view this video of my 210lbs to 220lbs over the years riding these type of trails the whole time on Easton Monkey Lite Carbon bars since 2000. On and off the bike and switched from bikes and always hand torqued to feel and never a fail. In my mind these guys with failed carbon bars are doing something wrong. Like cranking them down like they are in labor pushing out a baby.
> 
> 5-8-2014 DBB rain ride #9 The Finally Video - Pinkbike





*OneSpeed* said:


> there are too many conflicting opinions being thrown around, it's hard to read between the lines. can anyone provide factual data to support their claims? please no wiki facts or reddit references, real sources only.


I can support by first hand experience that the fatigue life of 3 years as some claim is BS. As I stated before my Easton Monkeylites are from 2000' and still going strong. That's a tad over 3 years so I better be careful. :yikes:


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I can support by first hand experience that the fatigue life of 3 years as some claim is BS. As I stated before my Easton Monkeylites are from 2000' and still going strong. That's a tad over 3 years so I better be careful. :yikes:


No offence DJ but there is a chance you are in a minority here. Just because this was your experience doesn't mean it is the norm. Now if a bunch of others said the same then maybe that is the case but 1 example does not make it true for all. I would also think your narrow bars would be a contributing factor that others may not have. 
So far in this thread we have had some great experience owners and some not so much. Still no solid reason to go for or against owning carbon bars other than personal preference.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

AshevilleMTB said:


> Last clean-up. Please don't screw it up.
> 
> Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one is entitled to insulting and name calling. State your opinions, your disagreements, in a respectful manner. If you can't do that, than you may want to abstain from debates.


Any thread with "vs" in the title should give you a heads up... these threads might need a little moderation, lol!


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Terranaut said:


> No offence DJ but there is a chance you are in a minority here. Just because this was your experience doesn't mean it is the norm. Now if a bunch of others said the same then maybe that is the case but 1 example does not make it true for all. I would also think your narrow bars would be a contributing factor that others may not have.
> So far in this thread we have had some great experience owners and some not so much. Still no solid reason to go for or against owning carbon bars other than personal preference.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


True! I'll take my narrow minded ways along with my narrow bars and go crawl my narrow ass under my narrow rock ledge.

I'll check back here once I'm allowed back out.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

John Kuhl said:


> If carbon is only good for 3 years than the Navy should have stopped flying
> the F18 a long time ago.





fatcat said:


> maybe...
> https://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/06/02/navy-blue-angel-jet-crashes-tennessee/85310876/


This unfortunate crash was an engine failure that had nothing to do with carbon fiber components. This I'm not aware of any moving carbon parts in a General Electric F404-GE-402 turbofan engine.

That's like saying my transmission failed because my windows were rolled down.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

*OneSpeed* said:


> there are too many conflicting opinions being thrown around, it's hard to read between the lines. can anyone provide factual data to support their claims? please no wiki facts or reddit references, real sources only.


Here's a few comparing frame materials

Aluminum Vs. Carbon Bikes | LIVESTRONG.COM
What is the lifespan of a carbon frame? | CyclingTips


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Cleared2land said:


> This unfortunate crash was an engine failure that had nothing to do with carbon fiber components. This I'm not aware of any moving carbon parts in a General Electric F404-GE-402 turbofan engine.
> 
> That's like saying my transmission failed because my windows were rolled down.


:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
FC is grasping at carbon straws.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

fatcat said:


> So here's your answer. Enjoy carbon but it won't last as long as an old tech alloy bar.
> Ride hard? Get an alloy bar. Like carbon? Change it every 3 years if thats your ONLY ride. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Carbon's lightweight and good feeling comes at a price. Alloy's rough riding and durablity comes at a price.





Cleared2land said:


> I'm interested to know if you have any carbon related industry or trade research, reports or publications to support this claim that properly fabricated (not knock-off cheap stuff) carbon won't last or has a life limit of three years.
> 
> Or, is your advice based on a personal opinion or preference?





fatcat said:


> Its basically common sense.


That's NOT common sense. That's a personal opinion.

My assumption is there is nothing to substantiate your statement.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

So in conclusion we've all decided carbon bars made by a reputable company [clears throat] like Easton will last a good number of years if torqued properly. And they will also help to dampen vibration feedback over aluminum or other forms of bar material. Plus they help in weight savings not to mention just plain bad ass looking.

I'm glad we got that cleared up.

What's our next world problem?


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## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

where do Ti bars fit into the equation?


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## 779334 (Oct 10, 2014)

*OneSpeed* said:


> where do Ti bars fit into the equation?


We've got to see who the winner is here. Then we can start another thread "XXXX vs Ti"

You know, the elimination game.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

It looks like Barney cleaned this thread up.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Cleared2land said:


> It looks like Barney cleaned this thread up.


He used a light touch. Quality moderating.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Thanks Barney for exercising a little discretion. Gregg isn't usually quiet as compassionate.


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## 127.0.0.1 (Nov 19, 2013)

J.B. Weld said:


> That's bs^ A carbon fiber bike frame is just as rigid on it's last day as it is when it's brand new.
> 
> And if your bike is creaking you should fix it.


100% agreed. I have a 12 year old trek carbon road bike, well over 40,000 miles on it, good as day one. except paint is peeling off all the cable stops from sweat I don't wash off....


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

I wonder where the more reputable branda have their carbon bars made. I would be curious to know the differences between some of the expensive bars vs cheapo Chinese bars. I have bought clothing off of ebay and it was exactly the same as the name brand stuff and I would not doubt it was made on the same line. The price differences are staggering. But is there a quality difference?

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

I find it ironic that some find quality brand carbon bars to be so outrageously priced and won't go there. Every quality component in today's biking world is expensive. Most of the time you get what you pay for.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I find it ironic that some find quality brand carbon bars to be so outrageously priced and won't go there. Every quality component in today's biking world is expensive. Most of the time you get what you pay for.


I agree. People don't seem to have much of a problem dropping $400 on a hub and that won't kill you if it breaks.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

J.B. Weld said:


> I agree. People don't seem to have much of a problem dropping $400 on a hub and that won't kill you if it breaks.


I have nice hubs and alloy bars. I've blown up a fair number of freehubs and bearings over the years on 'good but not great' hubs. Swapping cartridge bearings/freehubs is annoying and lacing up new hubs is a nuisance. Good hubs just work- i think they're cheaper per mile and i barely touch them.

OTOH Good quality/ well designed bars are sufficiently comfortable regardless of material. Neither one is gonna fail in normal use, but alloy is easier to see damage and tolerates point loading better. If i'm going to spend money on more comfort i'll put it in to my suspension where it makes a real difference.

...now, if i was a wuss who didn't make any power and had crap grip strength... i'd get me some carbon bars and not care about hubs.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

J.B. Weld said:


> I agree. People don't seem to have much of a problem dropping $400 on a hub and that won't kill you if it breaks.


Well I am only looking for a weight drop. I am planning carbon bars and seat post/seat on my HT. I would not drop $400 on hubs for this bike and would certainly not drop the same to shed a little weight. If I can shed it inexpensively then I will. If not then not. It's a Rockhopper expert so $1000 bike.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I find it ironic that some find quality brand carbon bars to be so outrageously priced and won't go there. Every quality component in today's biking world is expensive. Most of the time you get what you pay for.


No way!!!

I recently heard a friend broke his cheap stem cause they are "all the same". This is the same guy that gave me crap for buying a $100 stem cause they are "all the same" lol


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dirtrider76 said:


> No way!!!
> 
> I recently heard a friend broke his cheap stem cause they are "all the same". This is the same guy that gave me crap for buying a $100 stem cause they are "all the same" lol


Where in that post did I say they are all the same? I said you get what you pay for. I have always gone quality expensive over less quality less expensive.


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Where in that post did I say they are all the same? I said you get what you pay for. I have always gone quality expensive over less quality less expensive.


I agree on spending more if it is for more quality but so many things out there just cost more but aren't actually better. I like to find these products.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Where in that post did I say they are all the same? I said you get what you pay for. I have always gone quality expensive over less quality less expensive.


I agree with you 100%, my satire did not bleed through it would seem.


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## abelfonseca (Dec 26, 2011)

fatcat said:


> ...... Performance Bicycle is an easier outfit to tackle for my lawyer than Easton. .





fatcat said:


> ... But older people don't like spending money on new stuff and I can't blame them due to their limited funds.
> 
> Having a beautiful girlfriend or wife and you being ugly comes at a price. (gotta spend $$$ to keep her happy) Having a homely wife or girlfriend and you being ugly comes at a price(you wont have to spend much money) My wife's no longer attractive so thats why I now can buy carbon stuff.





fatcat said:


> I hope so JB, last March she wanted this and it was a bit more than Enve carbon bars


I thought the lawyer quote was a joke when I first read it, but after reading the rest of his posts, I can say I changed my mind. We have a textbook gem of a dude right here.

Cheers


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

Guess I need to buy a torque wrench now.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Notched said:


> Guess I need to buy a torque wrench now.
> View attachment 1091379


I hope you got good dental insurance!!!!

Disclamer: That's a joke DJ!!!


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Notched said:


> Guess I need to buy a torque wrench now.


That would be good advice. Plenty of other components on your bike that can use one.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dirtrider76 said:


> I hope you got good dental insurance!!!!
> 
> Disclamer: That's a joke DJ!!!


Hold on...I can't tell what brand those are on my tiny cell phone. If they're Easton forget that dental insurance and double your health insurance. Because you will be going double the speed with all that weight savings and less vibration.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Hold on...I can't tell what brand those are on my tiny cell phone.


I can make it bigger for you...

Bars by Chazz Michael Michaels, on Flickr


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

Terranaut said:


> Well I am only looking for a weight drop. I am planning carbon bars and seat post/seat on my HT. I would not drop $400 on hubs for this bike and would certainly not drop the same to shed a little weight. If I can shed it inexpensively then I will. If not then not. It's a Rockhopper expert so $1000 bike.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


Chasing the scale is a waste of time. If you want to be faster that comes from improved function until you've hit the 5x rockhopper price point. Good equipment isn't any heavier than it needs to be for its intended use.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

Notched said:


> I can make it bigger for you...
> 
> Bars by Chazz Michael Michaels, on Flickr


Ahh yes Answer, they make some quality stuff. Not sure on their carbon but they are good at what they do. I ran some Answer Aluminite bars on my MX bike years ago when everyone else was running Renthals and Pro Tapers. I liked them as did everyone else.

Congrats!


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## Terranaut (Jun 9, 2014)

scottzg said:


> Chasing the scale is a waste of time. If you want to be faster that comes from improved function until you've hit the 5x rockhopper price point. Good equipment isn't any heavier than it needs to be for its intended use.


Did I say faster? I just want to lighten my bike up a bit. If I was looking to shed weight for speed I would focus harder on my weight than the bike. I can afford to lose about 40lbs right now. Tinkering with my bike is part of my motivation to stay on it. Not everyone is racing. I ride for the love of riding and not to be faster than the next guy.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Which brands are known for better damping vs. stiffness?

I think I want carbon bars, but I know it's easy to make them as stiff or stiffer than aluminum, and I'm looking for something to absorb some of the aluminum 'frequency' of vibration. 

I'm looking at Syntace, Race Face, Sixpack...anyone can vouch for ~780mm bars that solve for comfort as well as toughness?


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## garcia (Apr 10, 2008)

schnee said:


> Which brands are known for better damping vs. stiffness?
> 
> I think I want carbon bars, but I know it's easy to make them as stiff or stiffer than aluminum, and I'm looking for something to absorb some of the aluminum 'frequency' of vibration.
> 
> I'm looking at Syntace, Race Face, Sixpack...anyone can vouch for ~780mm bars that solve for comfort as well as toughness?


While I have limited experience with carbon bars, and the experience I have is all with Niner carbon, I can recommend them for this use. I have the flat carbon bars and two sets of the low top carbon bars, both have a lot of damping, and a detectable amount of flex, which I really like.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I don't believe there's much empirical evidence to factually answer your question. I suspect it would be opinions of each persons experience and observations with their particular bars.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> I don't believe there's much empirical evidence to factually answer your question. I suspect it would be opinions of each persons experience and observations with their particular bars.


I believe you're right so I'll just throw this out. My enve risers feel pretty stout without much flex/damping and my niner rdo post has a ton of noticeable flex and damping capabilities so based on those irrelevant observations I believe garcia's post claiming the niner bars are compliant is probably true.

How's that for non-empirical evidence?


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## Guest (Sep 4, 2016)

J.B. Weld said:


> I believe you're right so I'll just throw this out. My enve risers feel pretty stout without much flex/damping and my niner rdo post has a ton of noticeable flex and damping capabilities so based on those irrelevant observations I believe garcia's post claiming the niner bars are compliant is probably true.
> 
> How's that for non-empirical evidence?


win


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

JB's evaluation is a good one that's able to actually compare two different bars and yield a comparison. I can't say that my experience in riding different carbon bars can yield as much tangible differences.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

I have Enve riser bars and Chromag BZA 35mm 25mm rise and a Chromag BZA 35mm 35mm rise bar. The Enve bars feel more damped than the Chromag Acute bars(aluminum) they replaced. Both of the Chromag BZA bars are more damped feeling than the Enve bars even though they are 35mm bars not 31.8. I can feel both bars flex if I stand up and hammer and that's OK cause that ridgid feeling with aluminum is what causes the vibration/harsh feeling some feel.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I've had one ride on those carbon Answer Pro Tapers above and I didn't notice any difference in feel. I'd put a slightly shorter stem on and noticed that more. Mind you the trails I rode are soft smooth soil, mixed with roots and bumps. So unless I rode down a gravel road I doubt I could tell a difference.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

The places I really noticed it are in chunk. I'm in the northeast, some of our trails are just rocks laying on top of more rock with some roots now and again.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

dirtrider76 said:


> The places I really noticed it are in chunk. I'm in the northeast, some of our trails are just rocks laying on top of more rock with some roots now and again.


You notice flex in your bars? I ride and have rode many a chunky trail [Rocky Mountains as well as So. Cal.] with my old Easton Monkey Lite Carbons and have never noticed a flex issue. That could be because when I'm going through a rocky technicle section I'm all bout survival and not criticizing my parts choice.

Seriously though I've never felt a noticeable flex in those amazing bars.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

This is all really helpful, and yeah, I didn't expect anything scientific, but these few names to track down have helped.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> You notice flex in your bars? I ride and have rode many a chunky trail [Rocky Mountains as well as So. Cal.] with my old Easton Monkey Lite Carbons and have never noticed a flex issue. That could be because when I'm going through a rocky technicle section I'm all bout survival and not criticizing my parts choice.
> 
> Seriously though I've never felt a noticeable flex in those amazing bars.


You really should reread what I posted, I can feel them flex when I'm mashing like a idiot in a separate post. I never said I feel them flexing when I ride chunk, I notice the damping effects though.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> You notice flex in your bars? I ride and have rode many a chunky trail [Rocky Mountains as well as So. Cal.] with my old Easton Monkey Lite Carbons and have never noticed a flex issue. That could be because when I'm going through a rocky technical section I'm all bout survival and not criticizing my parts choice.


It could also be that 
@580mm or whatever there's not enough bar there to flex perceptibly
you've been riding the same bars so long you don't have any reference point
you don't have the upper body strength to flex a handlebar
you can't really push in to the bars very hard anyway on your ancient bike

...or a combination of those things.

Newer 700mm+ bars there's plenty of material to flex even if they're aluminum. You mostly notice that your hands aren't as fatigued on long choppy descents anyway, but ride any wide quality XC bars and then some DH ones and it isn't subtle at all.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> It could also be that
> @580mm or whatever there's not enough bar there to flex perceptibly
> you've been riding the same bars so long you don't have any reference point
> you don't have the upper body strength to flex a handlebar
> ...


All that makes so much sense except for the comment on my "ancient bike". At what point does the age of a bike have anything to do with the flex of a bar? Zero relation and zero place in this thread.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> All that makes so much sense except for the comment on my "ancient bike". At what point does the age of a bike have anything to do with the flex of a bar? Zero relation and zero place in this thread.


Old bikes had steeper angles, flexier forks, and shorter top tubes. You just couldn't stuff the front wheel in to obstacles with old geo like you can with newer bikes. Rather than loading up the bars you'd end up on your head.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> Old bikes had steeper angles, flexier forks, and shorter top tubes. You just couldn't stuff the front wheel in to obstacles with old geo like you can with newer bikes. Rather than loading up the bars you'd end up on your head.


Right!


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

scottzg said:


> Old bikes had steeper angles, flexier forks, and shorter top tubes. You just couldn't stuff the front wheel in to obstacles with old geo like you can with newer bikes. Rather than loading up the bars you'd end up on your head.


How old is old? The last ten years bikes have been pretty good.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Notched said:


> How old is old? The last ten years bikes have been pretty good.


Not for me. Until my 2012 Niner bikes were flexy, until my 2013 34mm stanchion Trace the XC forks flexed, and even then the Niner still had steep awkward geo.


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Right!


You've got to realize that you're comparing apples to oranges when you compare your setup to modern ones, simple as that.

Nobody's saying it's bad or outdated, just different...

Well, maybe "ancient" was a bit harsh, lol!


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## Guest (Sep 5, 2016)

Cornfield said:


> You've got to realize that you're comparing apples to oranges when you compare your setup to modern ones, simple as that.
> 
> Nobody's saying it's bad or outdated, just different...
> 
> Well, maybe "ancient" was a bit harsh, lol!


no,no it was spot on..


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

nvphatty said:


> no,no it was spot on..


It would be considered a complement in the VRC.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

2002' is not concidered vintage. And what ScottVG said about sticking the front end into a rock on an older bike and going on your face. It can happen but it also flexes the bars probably more so than a newer geometry bike with larger wheels which floats right over it. So his point of an older bike being less harsh on the bars is IMO, BS and he's grasping at carbon straws. He hates the fact that I ride an older bike and that my my carbon bars have endured. The fact that they are narrower than today's bars would be a consideration on stress and flexing. But the new geometry to old geometry theory being a factoring issue if true would work the opposite than what Scott said. An older geometry smaller wheeled bike would be harder on the bars than a new geometry larger wheeled bike, me thinks.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

I'm not really sure what defines Vintage, but I know that I'm Vintage along with Pokey, Gumby and Blockhead. I think DJ fits the criteria too. I do know that being Vintage comes with certain entitlements.


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

Cleared2land said:


> I'm not really sure what defines Vintage, but I know that I'm Vintage along with Pokey, Gumby and Blockhead. I think DJ fits the criteria too. I do know that being Vintage comes with certain entitlements.


Hahaha!


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## net wurker (Sep 13, 2007)

In the MTB world, 2010 is vintage, and 2002 is borderline prehistoric.

It seems.


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## Mudguard (Apr 14, 2009)

I rode a friend's 2006 Enduro Elite? On Sunday. He's got sticky tires, 780mm bars and a dropper. Feels just as quick as my bike. If I had to guess I'd say it's not even a kg heavier than my 14


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

AshevilleMTB said:


> We've got to see who the winner is here. Then we can start another thread "XXXX vs Ti"
> 
> You know, the elimination game.


Why not Al vs. carbon vs. Ti vs. steel vs. old vs. new vs. long vs. short vs. rise vs. sweepback vs. clamp diameter vs. everyone's attention span?


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## Cornfield (Apr 15, 2012)

Zowie said:


> Why not Al vs. carbon vs. Ti vs. steel vs. old vs. new vs. long vs. short vs. rise vs. sweepback vs. clamp diameter vs. everyone's attention span?


You forgot scandium vs. wood.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

net wurker said:


> In the MTB world, 2010 is vintage, and 2002 is borderline prehistoric.
> 
> It seems.


Go into the Vintage forum and say that. LOLOLOLOLOL


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> 2002' is not concidered vintage. And what ScottZG said about sticking the front end into a rock on an older bike and going on your face. It can happen but it also flexes the bars probably more so than a newer geometry bike with larger wheels which floats right over it. So his point of an older bike being less harsh on the bars is IMO, BS and he's grasping at carbon straws. He hates the fact that I ride an older bike and that my my carbon bars have endured. The fact that they are narrower than today's bars would be a consideration on stress and flexing. But the new geometry to old geometry theory being a factoring issue if true would work the opposite than what Scott said. An older geometry smaller wheeled bike would be harder on the bars than a new geometry larger wheeled bike, me thinks.


Whoa you haven't even RIDDEN a different bike in the last 15 years?! The lower and further back from the front wheel you can get your body weight, the more load you can put in to the bars. Big wheels just let you hit larger obstacles before they stop you.

2002 isn't old enough to be interesting, but it's old enough to be irrelevant. I don't mind that you ride it; i think it suits you.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> The lower and further back from the front wheel you can get your body weight, the more load you can put in to the bars. Big wheels just let you hit larger obstacles before they stop you.


What? That makes zero sense. The lower and further back from the front wheel you get your body weight, the LESS load you can put on the bars. Big wheels let you roll over obstacles better = less load on the bars.

An old geometry bike the stems are longer with steeper head angle, smaller wheels, it's a recipe for more pressure [load] on the bars compared to newer geometry larger wheeled slacker head tube weight towards the back less weight and load on the bars.

Refer to my signature line. That's an old geometry bike. Look at all the pressure he's putting on the bars.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> An old geometry bike the stems are longer with steeper head angle, smaller wheels, it's a recipe for more pressure [load] on the bars compared to newer geometry larger wheeled slacker head tube weight towards the back less weight and load on the bars.


This isn't worth debating. You're wrong.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

scottzg said:


> This isn't worth debating. You're wrong.


Kinda how I feel about your opinion.


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## n0tEcH (Dec 28, 2014)

From what I understand from your posts (DIRTJUNKIE & scottzg) I believe you are both right.. as scottzg states that you can't get that much weight on the bars on bikes with a steeper head angle WITHOUT ending up in a OTB situation. And I agree with that going down a steep and bumby trail. With the same geometry (and I would also reccommend a dropper post) with i.e. a high rise bar you can put more weight on the bars and front wheel going down.. but only down. And I guess that was scottgz's point, as it is in those situations you are able to feel flex in the bars. For climbing and horisontal riding you will obviously have less weight on the bars and front wheel using a riser bar. Slacker head angles will improve the bike's capability of going down a steep trail, but the same rules of physics will apply on bar height on a slacker head angle also.

Regarding carbon vs aluminium bars.. I have a carbon bike and a carbon crank and considered a carbon bar.. but I bailed out in the last minute as I am so afraid of the consequences if they should fail in a critical situation. Bike frame and cranks are so much beefier so I trust them..

And combined with the fact that I don't trust myself to know when to replace them (I crash a lot) I ended up with a aluminium Spank Spike 800 Vibrocore (cut down to 760mm) and it feels great. 

Disclaimer:
I have absolutely no experience with cabon bars, but others have and have also done reviews of my new Spank Spike Vibrocore bar and compares them to carbon bars and vibration dampening is said to be similar as riders experience less fatigue.

The important thing for me though.. is to feel safe and confident on the trails.. that makes me a better rider. I guess that applies to all of us.. carbon bars or not.


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## tigris99 (Aug 26, 2012)

I have to chuckle at the "omg carbon bars are going to kill me" mentally of many here. SERIOUS WTF???

285 lbs, been beating the hell outta my carbon bars (only carbon part on my bikes) and not a single issue.

Don't want to loose your teeth, stay away from cheap eBay crap and insane light weight stuff. Enough said.

I demoed a bike with carbon bars and now as I can afford it, each bike is getting them. And I trust my carbon fiber bars as much as anything else. And the fact my body feels the difference during after every ride, I'll never go back.

Oh and if you think aluminum bars won't snap off.... Google works in wondrous ways.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk


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## n0tEcH (Dec 28, 2014)

tigris99 said:


> I have to chuckle at the "omg carbon bars are going to kill me" mentally of many here. SERIOUS WTF???
> 
> 285 lbs, been beating the hell outta my carbon bars (only carbon part on my bikes) and not a single issue.
> 
> ...


From what you are saying I understand your point of view.

My experience is limited to high quality aluminium bars, and I trust myself to replace them when needed. I crash a lot, and I don't trust myself to know when to replace a carbon bar and I would guess that I would have replaced them a lot sooner than nessessary. And that would be quite expensive. 

For me the same applies to climbing ropes. If the rope is just about to be ready for replacement I climb poorly. I always climb my best using a new rope, as I don't worry about if the rope will catch my fall or not. I just focus on the climbing.

I hope that you can understand my point of view.


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## Zowie (Aug 3, 2013)

Cornfield said:


> You forgot scandium vs. wood.


Like anyone would willingly pick scandium.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

Well, on a productive, and back on topic note, I ended up getting the Salsa bar. 740mm, all mountain-ish.

My riding is along the lines of their marketing, 'off road exploration', so I figured they'd aim for comfort. They also have a rather wide area on the bar near the stem area to attach stuff, so my GPS and light mount will fit just fine.


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## BmanInTheD (Sep 19, 2014)

Wait, are some of you guys putting more than one bar on your bikes? Damn, I thought I had it all figured out...


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Different bars for going different directions.

Climb bar, DH bar, fast n flowy bar.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

I didn't put carbon bars on my all mountain build and am glad I didn't after a couple good dummies this summer. My 780mm fatbars don't have a scratch or bend after I ate them while landing so hard they twisted my stem almost 90 degrees.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk


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## jcave216 (Feb 23, 2010)

hoolie said:


> View attachment 1089291
> View attachment 1089290
> No more carbon bars for my singlespeed following a guy over a jump (waterbar) at Demo Forest, and seeing his bar break upon landing, 5 feet in front me. I landed and ran over him and his bike. He was ok. Broken EC 90. It was a warranty bar replacement from EASTON. I took off my Thomson Carbon Trail, back on Easton Haven Aluminum. I think the singlespeed climbing technique, of cranking on handlebars is detrimental to Carbon (and AL) unless carbon is made thicker, weighing the same as AL. As far as those 2000 MonkeyLite bars, what is the weight? I had those same bars for 1000 rides on an old Superlight with no issues. Thomson Carbon instructions call to replace carbon bar every season, read the fine print. Sold mine.[/QUOTE
> 
> The fine print from Thomson reads this way actually "Handlebars that are raced for a full season should be replaced yearly. Lightweight high performance carbon bars and or parts should be replaced after 3 years of use."


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## dirtrider76 (Sep 19, 2012)

My carbon Chromag BZA bars with a huge gouge in them are still going strong.


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## Schulze (Feb 21, 2007)

I use carbon bars that weigh equivalent to an aluminum bar for two reasons: It's stronger and it doesn't corrode from sweat. Currently on some Niner RDO bars.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

As I don't race or care about Strava I will probably always use aluminum bars and everything else aluminum also. The strength/safety/longevity to price ratio is just better.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

noose said:


> As I don't race or care about Strava I will probably always use aluminum bars and everything else aluminum also. The strength/safety/longevity to price ratio is just better.


Plus you get that great vibration feeling through the grips that you don't get with carbon.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> Plus you get that great vibration feeling through the grips that you don't get with carbon.


I get no vibration through my bars. You are likely running too high a tire pressure if vibration is a problem for you.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

noose said:


> As I don't race or care about Strava


I don't think anyone buys carbon bars because they think are going to be faster with them, it's mostly a comfort or bling thing IMO.


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## Bigjunk1 (Sep 17, 2016)

I had a set of carbon Raceface Next bars crack on me and it scared the crap out of me. I went back to alum. for a while because I was scared of carbon. 
I recently got some EC90 carbon bars but I have not been out and got rough with them yet. I am going to try carbon again but I will keep a close eye on them for sure. I mostly care about weight is why I use carbon but I trust alum. more than carbon for strength. I also have a carbon seat post but I feel better about it because it does not get the same forces a handlebar does and it has been fine.


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## Legbacon (Jan 20, 2004)

J.B. Weld said:


> I don't think anyone buys carbon bars because they think are going to be faster with them, it's mostly a comfort or bling thing IMO.


I use because they look cooler


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## comptiger5000 (Jun 11, 2007)

I just ditched my old (640mm and heavy) aluminum bars for a set of 725mm Raceface Next bars. Installed them last night. They're light. As in, less than half the weight of the aluminum bars they replaced. 

We'll see how they hold up. I'm not terribly hard on parts and don't break things very often, so I'm expecting I'll have no issues.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

noose said:


> I get no vibration through my bars. You are likely running too high a tire pressure if vibration is a problem for you.


I don't run aluminum bars. Been on carbon since 2000 with zero vibration issues. I have ridden bikes with aluminum bars and notice quite a difference with dampening and feed back from the trail with aluminum that you don't get with carbon.


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## ghoti (Mar 23, 2011)

I like to live dangerously so gonna try out some $25 chinese carbon bars. They weigh almost 1/3 what my current al bars weigh so this should be interesting.


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## schnee (Oct 15, 2005)

I ride a fatbike in the snow, so carbon bars are great - they don't conduct away heat so my hands stay warmer.


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

noose said:


> As I don't race or care about Strava I will probably always use aluminum bars and everything else aluminum also. The strength/safety/longevity to price ratio is just better.


What does racing or Strava have to do with selecting carbon?

edit...wrong quote from another post.


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## scottzg (Sep 27, 2006)

schnee said:


> I ride a fatbike in the snow, so carbon bars are great - they don't conduct away heat so my hands stay warmer.


Yah this is the biggest draw for carbon cockpit i think. My rando bike has carbon ultegra levers and man- when you have a long descent those levers make for much warmer fingers!

Otherwise it's all the same stuff and design trumps material.

----

I was following the blog of a guy who was gearing up for producing prototype carbon bars and the big takeaway for me was that you don't wanna buy carbon from someone who might not have their process dialed, especially if they have no accountability.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

That sounds like a useful application for carbon. 

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Clayncedar (Aug 25, 2016)

I run a mix of carbon and aluminum bars on my various rides (dj, dh, xc, fatbike, and enduro). I've never cared that much other than they be wide, have some decent rise, and are attached to as short a stem as possible.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

noose said:


> I get no vibration through my bars. You are likely running too high a tire pressure if vibration is a problem for you.


I have a rigid fat bike I ride mainly in the winter, and switching to carbon bars was a night and day difference, as I knew it would be. There is considerable vibration damping going on with carbon, and my wrists feel a hell of a lot more comfortable. And you cant blame the 4 or 5 psi tire pressure.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

schnee said:


> I ride a fatbike in the snow, so carbon bars are great - they don't conduct away heat so my hands stay warmer.


I got mine because they don't get so hot. Plus they look cool.


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## noose (Feb 11, 2004)

GuitsBoy said:


> I have a rigid fat bike I ride mainly in the winter, and switching to carbon bars was a night and day difference, as I knew it would be. There is considerable vibration damping going on with carbon, and my wrists feel a hell of a lot more comfortable. And you cant blame the 4 or 5 psi tire pressure.


I can understand that but I don't have a rigid bike so it's not all that relevant to my situation.

Sent from my SM-G920W8 using Tapatalk


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

Reach out. Yet, weary of what you allow yourself to grasp. Go now Grasshopper. Guard above all things, the purity of your vision.


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## GuitsBoy (Sep 24, 2013)

noose said:


> I can understand that but I don't have a rigid bike so it's not all that relevant to my situation.


I also have sixc carbon bars on my 140mm forked plus bike for the same reason. Same fork as you, but the roughcut HLR damper, which is even more supple and better small bump compliance. It still makes a difference.

For every single person that I know that has wrist pain, I suggest carbon bars. and while it doesn't always remedy it 100%, everyone says its a big improvement.

Until youve used them yourself, you dont know what youre missing. Yes, the price is a bit steep, but there are deals to be had from time to time. Ive scored a few name brand carbon bars for under 50 bucks from reputable vendors. As for the safety aspect, I think you have a false sense of security with alloy bars, as they can and do break without warning too. Especially the ultra light alloy bars. Gram for gram, carbon is simply a stronger more resilient material, so long as it's not damaged in some way. Carbon failures are usually the result of overclamping, or a deep scratch from a crash. Every bar I buy gets tested by stomping on it while bridged between two blocks of wood. Even the chinese carbon bars have survived my 230 lbs stomping the everloving crap out of them.

Anyway, I'm not trying to force carbon on you, but trying to dispel the drawbacks you perceive. That said, you do owe it to yourself to test a pair for a couple miles at some point in your riding career. You may not think your wrists hurt now, but you may be surprised how much better they feel.


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## glockcrazz (Oct 20, 2017)

Bringing this topic into 2018. 
Just ordered a 2018 Trek fuel ex 8.
Considering changing out the bar to carbon. Mostly for the benefit of a more comfortable ride on my hands. 
Should I be concerned about durability? Any suggestions on what bars to look at?


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## Cleared2land (Aug 31, 2012)

^^^ Buy name brand quality and not cheap knock-off bars and you should be fine with durability.


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## Curveball (Aug 10, 2015)

If you have concerns about the durability of carbon, but want vibration damping, there's the Spank vibracore.

https://spank-ind.com/products/spike-800-vibrocore™-bar-ltd-edition


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)




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## root (Jan 24, 2006)

glockcrazz said:


> Bringing this topic into 2018.
> Just ordered a 2018 Trek fuel ex 8.
> Considering changing out the bar to carbon. Mostly for the benefit of a more comfortable ride on my hands.
> Should I be concerned about durability? Any suggestions on what bars to look at?


Yup, ipersonally know of mor catastrophic Al bar failures than carbon, although theres been way more time Al been used than carbon. Buddies an i also purposely destroyed a carbon bar that he was replacing because he spoted wyat looked like micro crack. It took an impressive beating. 
That said, within my circle of ridDing buddies we do have cracked carbon saddle rails and cracked carbon crank arm.


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## DIRTJUNKIE (Oct 18, 2000)

fokof said:


>


I could only handle watching 45 seconds of that, due to how he says "aluminum". :madman:


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## gdb85 (Mar 4, 2017)

DIRTJUNKIE said:


> I could only handle watching 45 seconds of that, due to how he says "aluminum". :madman:


LOL! Really, WTF is up with that, my goodness.


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