# cree MC E light but need a little help



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

As you might have seen from some of my posts I have been making the bar mounts on my lights in the hope that they will use the bars for a bit of heat removal.

so I thought I would take it a bit further with a housing for the cree mc e led when it becomes available

here is the idea for my light .










this will also keep it out of the way when turning the bike over to fix a flat.

So with this design where do I put the driver to keep it as small as possible
I am not sure which optic to use either the 20mm or 26.6 mm 
if I used the 20 mm then I could put 2 mc e`s side by side in the aluminium I have

but I figured the larger 26.6mm optic may be the best for the leds and would make a smaller light.

any ideas please


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## Frs1661 (Jun 9, 2008)

I'd be a bit worried about getting good thermal contact with the bars. IMO you'd want to clean off whatever paint was on the bar, and use some thermal paste. Your bar mount has to make strong clamping pressure with the bar.

Even assuming a good thermal connection to the bar, you're not really adding alot of mass. I think it may saturate rather more quickly then you might like. 

What kind of wattage do you want to push through the LEDs?

Where are you planning on putting the battery? My first thought is a water-bottle setup, where you cold keep the driver in the bottle with the battery.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ref contact with the bars they are anodised so no need to remove any paint
the light will hopefully be machined to be a good fit and a little tip here is to use a little 
zinc baby botty cream as zinc is a great heat conducter and the other ingredient is caster oil so will not hurt the bars.

also there will be 1.8 square inches of contact with the bars.

the cree mc e leds will be powered at 700 ma

I already put my battery in small camera bag under the stem it is a 15 v li ion

I have been doodling again and here is my next idea on this theme.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Looks good troutie, but since you asked for feedback Ill try and shoot it down...
Its gonna get hot. It might expand enough that it gets loose on the bars.
I would make it hang or sit on top of the bars, and COG right over or under the bars so it doesn't want to flop down. Over the bars means you don't have to deal with cable shadows either...not so bad on a triple of quad but with such a small source a cable in the way would be really bad.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Looks good troutie, but since you asked for feedback Ill try and shoot it down...
> Its gonna get hot. It might expand enough that it gets loose on the bars.
> I would make it hang or sit on top of the bars, and COG right over or under the bars so it doesn't want to flop down. Over the bars means you don't have to deal with cable shadows either...not so bad on a triple of quad but with such a small source a cable in the way would be really bad.


Cheers znomit , that is why I posted for constructive feedback :thumbsup:

good point about the expansion ok I make the rear of the clamp oversize and line it with inertube .

I like the vertical idea too and it might give me more space for the driver but the heat then has to travel down to soak to the bars .

cant hang down cos the cables will deff be in the way but I like that too keeps the light out of the way from over the bar dismounts too .
will have to check where the cables are


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## Guest (Jun 29, 2008)

I have always liked the idea of using the bike as a heatsink and I think it should work fine, copper grease is a good heat conductor but I never knew about zink cream. The only problem I can find is you can't aim the light left to right. 
Becouse heat rises having the light under the bars will allow the heat to rise into the bars, but then as said before you may have cable probs. EDIT the post above wasn't there when I started typing.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers dweeby 
never even thought about the heat rising into the bars  
I will have a close look at the cables and see if it can go under and experiment with my exsisting light to see any shadows .

also copper grease I have a massive tub of that just never thought about using it 
for heat transfer


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## mofoki (Feb 1, 2005)

What are the masses with carbon bars going to do?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> good point about the expansion ok I make the rear of the clamp oversize and line it with inertube .


If you do that it wont transfer the heat. 
Im really liking my under stem setups. Totally out of the way. I used some welding rod to spread the cables. I think all stems are different though so a machined clamp is no good.... maybe a double clamp to the bars or a single offset one? Someone made a double clamp to the bars either side of the stem and it looked fantastic, think it was that curvy triple???


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

I had an idea some time ago after too many beers. It was to make a stem face plate with Leds in and put the driver insde of the hollow stem. It never happend but I still look at my wobbly drawing for a laugh now and then. 
But you never know, one day........

Just a thought on expansion, if the bar clamp and bar are both made from the same meterial won't they both expand as they get warm and then still fit tight. Maybe not, not sure on that.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Okay :-

Heat only rises in air/water not in solids, because it makes the air expand and therefore lighter than the normal sized air around it  in Metal heat will radiate equally, feel your copper central heating pipes same heat top and bottom, yes the heat of the bars will convect up towards the unit but as your moving it'll have zero effect.

NO way is this thing going to get hot enough for it to become loose on the bars, 80c is the internal max temperature, so doubt you'll get to 40c external temperature while riding outta and even then the bars will heat up and expand to fill the gap anyway.

Wouldn't use Copper Grease, yes the copper part is good but the grease part isn't better off with CPU thermal paste.

What you really need is copper water filled bars though 

Water filled bars, would really increase the transfer rate, then a pump and a motorbike radiator mounted under your stem


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dweeby said:


> I had an idea some time ago after too many beers. It was to make a stem face plate with Leds in and put the driver insde of the hollow stem. It never happend but I still look at my wobbly drawing for a laugh now and then.
> But you never know, one day........
> 
> Just a thought on expansion, if the bar clamp and bar are both made from the same meterial won't they both expand as they get warm and then still fit tight. Maybe not, not sure on that.


Thats a cool idea Dweeby. :thumbsup:

Regarding expansion, the light housing is going to be significantly hotter than the bars and hence get bigger.... probably a lot hotter.


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## dazzat3 (May 4, 2008)

Turveyd said:


> Okay :-
> 
> Heat only rises in air/water not in solids, because it makes the air expand and therefore lighter than the normal sized air around it  in Metal heat will radiate equally, feel your copper central heating pipes same heat top and bottom, yes the heat of the bars will convect up towards the unit but as your moving it'll have zero effect.
> 
> ...


I Believe Turveyd is correct in regards to heat transfer in solids and I agree that thermal paste would be the best option. Copper cote/grease gets everywhere, regardless of how hard you try not to spread it.

Just thinking out loud here...How would you go making your housing a rectangular shape with rounded corners and 3mm x 2.5mm cooling fins equally spaced around the entire housing?...mmm, I do like dweebys stem mounted light idea, though!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> If you do that it wont transfer the heat.


no I would leave the front of the clamp bare and a good fit to the bars

dweebys idea is good can you get into the stem with the bars in the way 
now that would take some making 
can we see your wobbly drawing dweeby please


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> no I would leave the front of the clamp bare and a good fit to the bars
> 
> dweebys idea is good can you get into the stem with the bars in the way
> now that would take some making
> can we see your wobbly drawing dweeby please


:thumbsup: 
You could spring load the mounting bolts too to keep things tight... hmmm.

Yeah, that stem mount would kick arse. Are the bolts a standard spacing?

_ps, I was snooping cutter.com.au and they have prices up on MC-E leds._


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

well Hope do make a stem faceplate with mount for their lights and battery
I bet the bolt holes are not standard though

MC-E prices http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=45
but not until august/september

Oh well that gives me plenty of time to get the housing sorted


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

It's a funny old world, but I mentioned the stem light to fellow mtbr members about a year ago and most thought I was mad so I listened to advice for once and never bothered. Only to find people now like the Idea and most annoying is that exposure lights have gone and done it(well a commuter version). I don't want to take the subject off of troutie-mtbs light just agreeing with using an alloy bike as a heatsink.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Dont worry about my thread it is threads like this that spark ideas for folk.

Your stem faceplate idea just lends itself to the new MC-E led and 20 mm optics
with there small footprint I think the optic and led mcpcb will be max 15 mm deep and the driver in the stem ok you lose the thermal protection but I am sure you could put 2 MC-Es on a face plate and there would be plenty to take the heat away

one main issue would be getting the vertical angle right for your own stem.
I do have an idea how to make it adjustable though.

Come on dweeby you can do it , you know you want the challenge


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

There are a few problems and the biggest one has always been the aim of the thing. but it can be done. The idea at first was to have it permanently fitted as no real point removing it when the only added weight is two leds and a driver. But not too long ago someone posted (maybe znomit)a dynamo light with the elecronics inside the fork steerer and that got me thinking again. A DC socket in the top cap and you could just plug the battery into it and go. I don't know about this one as a challenge, I end up not sleeping untill it's done, it pisses the wife off and turns my house into a load of wire and metal dust.

What is your idea for adjustability, mine is simply to have slots instead of holes.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dweeby said:


> There are a few problems and the biggest one has always been the aim of the thing. but it can be done.
> ... not too long ago someone posted (maybe znomit)a dynamo light with the elecronics inside the fork steerer and that got me thinking again.
> 
> What is your idea for adjustability, mine is simply to have slots instead of holes.


Theres is a bit of adjustability in the face plate anyway. If its a floody beam the adjustment isn't critical so you could guess and design most of the angle in.
If you dont need to transfer heat to the bars you can make a simple pivoting plate for perfect aim.

Yes, there is a lot of spare room in the steerer tube. The board I bought from pilom.com for my dyno is custom designed to fit, clever. A bflex should squeeze in a switch seals the top. You should be able to run wires past the star nut. Battery and LED wires out the bottom. Very tidy.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2008)

I bet you are the first to do it znomit, I've looked at your lights and this is right up your street. 

When I had the idea a year ago it was all buck pucks and no one had thermal protection, also 2 single die LEDs was the norm so you could squeeze 3 x 18650 cells lenth ways for the required 11.1 battery into the steerer and just have a charge socket on the top cap or bottom of the steerer. Soon though we will have a lot more heat and require bigger batteries. Unless ofcourse you have dynamo power.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dweeby said:


> ... you could squeeze 3 x 18650 cells lenth ways for the required 11.1 battery into the steerer and just have a charge socket on the top cap or bottom of the steerer. Soon though we will have a lot more heat and require bigger batteries. Unless ofcourse you have dynamo power.


Oh, never thought about putting batteries in there... I did have some ideas for putting the lights into bar ends and batteries in the handlebars. If I get a commuter with flat bars Ill probably do this... micropucks and 4AA batteries in bars. That might be a good MC-E solution too. One light either bar end.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Ha Ha Ha Ha*



dweeby said:


> I end up not sleeping untill it's done, it pisses the wife off and turns my house into a load of wire and metal dust.


I just got in and read this still laughing 

now off in to the garage to pull the faceplate off the bike and have a look.
and I bet I am not the only one

That would be so cool batteries inside to with a charge jack and pretty much unstealable
on a comuter bike.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

> can we see your wobbly drawing dweeby please


Too much beer. Thomson x4 stem is just the thing. I will do a new drawing


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

And trouti, you've almost drawn it anyway. I just did a little change.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

that looks doable just need to work out the angle for the lights .
with the MC-E and 2 * 20 mm optics you have got 1500 lum in a tiny footprint on the bike 
1 medium optic and 1 wide oval optic with the driver in the stem just plug the battery in and go .


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

OK, I'm on the boil, the wife likes it because she doesn't have to carry a light in her backpack and then fit it and remove it etc. it's just there! Anyway I will try and make a mock up out of MDF tomorrow and I have found (and ordered) some 18mm aluminium reflectors on DX that I think will work and give a bit more room, one smooth and one textured 

Just thinking out loud but a nice silver aluminium stem and some alloy reflectors built in, very bling. Can't afford a new stem though so odd silver front on black stem will do.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Whoa , way to go Dweeby , just cant resist 
are you a salesman , you sweet talking :crazy:  ( sold the idea to the missus ) 

:drumroll: cant wait to see some pics how you are going to do it.

here is a doodle of my adjustable idea :idea: not really sure how to do it though 
and keep the good thermal contact.
the more I think about it I think you just need to get the angles right first time .










please update us as you progress


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2008)

Yes the sun did come out in the UK and it went to your head as well, troutie


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2008)

Feel free to laugh your socks off, I already have!
I made a Qiuck mock up of the stem face plate out of MDF and found that getting the light angle right will be very very hard, the rest isn't too bad. Oh and MDF is crap should have used plywood.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

dweeby, that looks uber cool :thumbsup: i love it, but like you say aiming the beam will kill the deal
if you go more flood than spot it wouldn`t have to be so precise


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah, thats real tidy. :thumbsup: 
...Almost as nice as the design in my head, which solves the heat and aiming problems. Hopefully its as nice when drawn out on paper


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Dweeby 
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: That looks really ace , How long did it take you to do it.
get it patented quick

What are you using to do the machining

can we please have a picture with it on the bike .

I have been working away for the past 2 days with no tinterweb so have only just seen it.

Look what my brother gave me










19 inches long and 2.5 by 2.25 inches of top quality aircraft qrade aluminium
so should be enough to make the odd light there.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dweeby said:


> getting the light angle right will be very very hard


If you machine off about 2 mm from the back of the faceplate and ovalise the boltholes a little you will have some fine tuning for the angle without losing too much clamping area .


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

How will you be able to aim the light where you want it? The majority of MTB stems face slightly upwards, so your lights would also shine up, not down on the trail where you want the light

For the bars, I like to have two lights. A wide beam angled just in front of the front wheel and then a second wide beam angled so that it illumintaes just in front of the first.

Supplemented by a helmet light I find this gives the best coverage.

Good luck guys, I like where this is all heading


OOps, clearly I didn't read to the end of the thread before I posted that comment. Sorry


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Im wondering about optics and drivers. One wide and one narrow driven with a balance and a brightness adjustment for full control would be nice.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

The model only took 15 mins with the Dremel and was just to find out if there was enough space and there is plenty. can't put it on the bike 'cos the crap MDF just crumbles with bolts done up.

It's good I think to do a mock up but use plywood. I may make a better one out of ply and bolt it on. The problem I have is only having a Dremel a drill and a bench grinder and the only aluminium I have is 10mm thick sheets. So it may just end up as a wooden model. 

Troutie, I'm still thinking on your swivel point idea it may be possible. And it's nice having a brother like that, it's my brother who gives me the 10mm thick sheets.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

znomit, can we see the idea thats in your head please, it might give my brain a rest


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Dweeby are your bars oversize ie 31.56mm 

if you want I will post you a bit of this ali as I have plenty

I will post a pic of what I am doing soon with more details

Znomit I second Dweebys request for your ideas 

we have shown you ours so you show us yours


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

troutie yes oversize bars. A bit of your aluminium would be very nice thanks.
shall I pm you my address? Let me know if you want a piece of 10mm it's quite handy.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

The reason I asked what size your bars are is this










being lucky enough to have a mini lathe and milling machine I figured that if I bored the hole the same as the bars then cut it in half then I would have 2 blanks that fit the bars

like so 









I quess getting the clamp size right is the hardest bit without a lathe so you can have the other half if you want it , and dont mind me doing a bit of the work for you 

I wish you luck with the dremel This aluminium must be very good quality it is quite hard compared to the stuff I have been using in the past ideal for this project

yes pm me your address and I will get it in the post asap but you must keep sharing the ideas

What I am impressed with is if you can do a similar quality of build in ali as the mdf mockup with the tools you have that will be fantastic


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

Just another thought...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes something like that would work , be adjustable and porbably easier to make

BUT I really like your concept and mdf mock up and if you don`t mind I am going to blatently steal it  and have spent the afternoon in my garage starting it.

also I am going to ask for help on here whenever I dont know what to do

Which is about now .



















I have got to the point where I need to try and work out the angle for the lights before I cut anymore metal off it .

My idea is with the bike on a level floor set the forks which I can lock down to my normal riding position. Then assuming the lights need to point level or just a bit tilted down .

I am thinking of using a medium beam and a eliptical beam but when ordering the mce`s I will probably order some other optics too

I do have about 4 degrees of up and down tilt with the faceplate a bit more with the removal of more aluminium.

I will wait untill it gets dark and see where my bar light points and try and measure the angle somehow.

any new ideas will be gratefully received ta


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

Man your keen,
I was thinking that I would tie some string to a tree or something in the distance, tie it at the hight that you want the centre of the beam then tie the other end to the stem. use a spirit level on the string, then put a mark on the spirit level where the bubble is. Then you can use the level any time now that the bubble has been marked. This can be done in daylight but you may get someone asking why you are tying your bike to a tree.

Everyone must think we are mad.

And thanks for the help.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dweeby said:


> Man your keen,
> I was thinking that I would tie some string to a tree or something in the distance, tie it at the hight that you want the centre of the beam then tie the other end to the stem. use a spirit level on the string, then put a mark on the spirit level where the bubble is. Then you can use the level any time now that the bubble has been marked. This can be done in daylight but you may get someone asking why you are tying your bike to a tree.
> 
> Everyone must think we are mad.
> ...


No not keen I just got the day off and find it relaxing carving something out of a piece of metal.

The string idea is a damn good idea the more I think about it I bet if the beam centre of say a spot beam was paralell to the ground then a spot and a flood would be about right .

If I set it with the bolt holes tight at the top and aim it level then I have the 4 degree tilt available in a downwards direction . or do I set it to have 2 degrees up or down .

right off to get some string

next question how far away is going to be the optimal distance for a 790 lumin *2 light 
20 /30 mtres


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*major xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxproblem*

:madman: :madmax: :madman: :madmax:  :madman: :madmax: 

Oh dear glad I didnot pay for the aluminium that is friday afternoon and the aluminium a total write off just because I didnt spot the problem on my drawings.

and it was looking good too










anyone spot the fatal flaw.

the good news is I sorted the perfect angle so the mark 2 will be a lot easier

Dweeby your bit of ally is ready to mail in the morning , just dont make the same mistake as me.:nono:

I did learn a lot on how to use the lathe though


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2008)

troutie when I made the model I did discover that this helped but obviously all stems are different. Good Luck


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

:eekster: 
Good luck screwing that on.
Nice work though. Im impressed.
Regarding aim, mine are 600-700lm and point down a little. At that brightness its not critical. I can move mine up and down a little without noticing. Maybe tie the string to the base of the tree 30m away and line up to that? If your bike has suspension it might change things too so hop on.

I'm loving this thread guys.


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

Don't throw that bit away, just cut the front off then make a little housing with the bit you cut off.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:smallviolin:Thanks for all the sympathy guys :smallviolin:

I didnt even get any from the wife when she found me :cryin:

I cant wait untill Dweeby gets his piece of aluminium and starts cutting it 
it is the hardest aluminium I have ever had the privalidge of screwing up

It does polish to a fantastic finish though

I might polish the cockup and mount it on the wall as a reminder to take notice of the drawing better 

This might be my last post untill they let me out of the asylem :incazzato:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*whoo they let me out*

Hi folks I am back :thumbsup: but then you knew it would not be long before the mark 2 version would be done :crazy:

well after yesterdays cockup :cryin: it had to be better .

now it is raining like the world is going to end :sad: so back into the garage to make some metal shavings  and hopefully something usefull.

It would seem that the stem angle on my bike it is not possible to make a one piece design :madman:

so back to the drawing board , well a piece of dirty paper in the garage .
no there is no drawing this time just the voices in my head :incazzato:

do you want to see what it looks like :ihih:


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## Guest (Jul 5, 2008)

> do you want to see what it looks like :ihih:


Yes please.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok quickly before the straight jacket goes back on


















































































WELL YOU DID ASK NICELY :thumbsup:

it just wants some fine tuning and a bit of work with a file and some polish
and it is ready and waiting for the new multi die Crees and optics.


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## biketavioumaximus (Jun 28, 2007)

I want one!!!!!! How Much $$$$$


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Well done, I knew you could do it and I'm glad to see that my stem light idea wasn't mad after all.

You must have some amazing skill and some nice sharp tools. I may have to buy one from you as there is no way I'm doing that with a Dremel.

I knew it could be done, great to see one for real ( well on the screen at least) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Holy crap!*

That's some great work. You're cranking out some really good stuff.

Even though I don't have a use for something like that, I'm interested in how you control the swivel.

And uh, I might want one too...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

thanks for the comments guys   

Afew more pics on the bike one slight problem is the mounting holes need a tiny bit of tweaking.










just clears the cables fine and this is roughly the right angle





































and here is my very messy workshop



















AND THE REAL REASON FOR MAKING THE LIGHT










is to make all this swarfe and alu dust 

Oh and you can see the pics full size here http://pics-by-chris.fotoblog.org.uk/c1379760_49.html


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

biketavioumaximus said:


> I want one!!!!!! How Much $$$$$


biketavioumaximus

I would not know how to put a value on one of these because from this










to this took me the whole of saturday with a bit of time off to watch the grand prix quali.










OK now I know what is looks like and how to do it I might be persuaded to do the hard bits and leave it to the buyer to do the finishing

also because everyones stems are different it needs to be made for that stem


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

notaknob said:


> That's some great work. You're cranking out some really good stuff.
> 
> Even though I don't have a use for something like that, I'm interested in how you control the swivel.
> 
> And uh, I might want one too...


:lol::lol:

Hi Bruce

The swivel is really to get the angle right for the lights and then it will be invisibly bolted from the back of the faceplate with a couple of M3 bolts tapped into the rear of the eyeball
also some thermal past in there too

also I still have the cable entry to the 2 MC-E`s to sort out

Drivers which are going to live in the hollow stem so have to work out cable routing from there.

I would like to put a small waterproof power in socket in the stem then it is just a case of plug the battery in and go

and then the problem of where do I put the switch

so as you can see it is not finished and I havent even ordered any leds and optics yet

Cheers Chris:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dweeby said:


> :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Well done, I knew you could do it and I'm glad to see that my stem light idea wasn't mad after all.
> 
> You must have some amazing skill and some nice sharp tools. I may have to buy one from you as there is no way I'm doing that with a Dremel.
> 
> I knew it could be done, great to see one for real ( well on the screen at least) :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Funnyily enough Dweeby most of the work was done with a hacksaw and file after the work on the lathe for the roundy bits

and as your mdf model suggests you can get it out of one piece for your setup with some carefull measuring and acurate sawing. and I have already done the roundy bit for you

And sorry I missed the post on sat so will post on monday

Cheers Chris


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie, I don't want to send you back to the asylum because the work is beautiful but......have you thought that if you cut just the light housing peice in half, so between the two light recesses, you could then set it up so that the two lights were angled differently. The wider of the two beams at the base of that tree you used to set it up, the tighter beam slightly further down the track. 

My bar lights, twin head, are like this and I find it great for fine tuning depending on the trail. Slow techy trails and the lights are closer to the front wheel, super fast fire trail and I spread them out so I have even light from my helmet mounts all the way back to the closest handle bar mounted one.

Just a thought, keep up the good work.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie, I don't want to send you back to the asylum because the work is beautiful but......have you thought that if you cut just the light housing peice in half, so between the two light recesses, you could then set it up so that the two lights were angled differently. The wider of the two beams at the base of that tree you used to set it up, the tighter beam slightly further down the track.


:madman: :incazzato: 
Good idea emu but I will leave that to someone else to perfect though I did have the idea of putting A single cree in the middle under the eyeball pointing down and slightly forward 
with no optic to light up the wheel area


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> :madman: :incazzato:
> Good idea emu but I will leave that to someone else to perfect though I did have the idea of putting A single cree in the middle under the eyeball pointing down and slightly forward
> with no optic to light up the wheel area


You could just machine in the led mounts at different angles. Been thinking about this... its easy to optimise angles on the flat but most of the tricky turns are over rolling terrain ... I'm guessing spot 5 degrees lower than flood would work well. I played around with angled lights on a few builds. One was too wide (l/r) other put a bit too much in front(up/down), best solution, as always, is more lumens.  
BUT ... MC-E dies are individually addressable so with a nice driver you could do high/low or narrow/wide. Put angles between the 2 leds, rotate one LED 45deg and there are all sorts of options. :crazy: 
Someone might do a smart controller for highbeam/lowbeam/narrow/wide as well as output 
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
I do think a simple balance control between wide and narrow beams is a good idea.

Sorry my brilliant light idea is looking a bit complicated once put on paper. Basically a periscope so LEDs point down and an adjustable mirror to bend the beam out the front at the right angle. A bit of light goes directly down for spill... The main driver for this idea is the frontal area fo cooling. Dunno how hot these things will get but people will drive them at 1A(remember XR-E were spec'd at only 700mA when released) so 29W is possible only if you keep things cool.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> You could just machine in the led mounts at different angles


Just re read your post and sat looking at the mk 2 and :idea: yes you sometimes miss things even when it is so obvious Ta .:thumbsup:

the angle I have tested with the light I built stolen from this thread 
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=407160
it was perfect for this test ,flat based and a twin setup with a smooth spot and a wide optic
and dead level when just sat on the bike was perfect for me .

when you are braking for a techy bit the front dives and so lightsup said techy bit more 
and when climbing the front is a bit lighter so throws a bit further up the trail .

:incazzato: Looking at your idea your even dafter than me :incazzato:

But I can see where you are coming from with it it would be an easy way for a proper dipping solution with a quick flick of a lever that moves the mirror to dip the beam

I dont think your smart driver is on the horizon just yet .

 this has been a fun thread I hope there is more to come  ut: :madman: :crazy: :yesnod:

see you in the madhouse soon .


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## Guest (Jul 6, 2008)

Znomit

I'm speechless.



But I'm thinking.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> :incazzato: Looking at your idea your even dafter than me :incazzato:
> 
> But I can see where you are coming from with it it would be an easy way for a proper dipping solution with a quick flick of a lever that moves the mirror to dip the beam
> 
> I dont think your smart driver is on the horizon just yet .


Haha, thanks for the complement. :cornut: 
Yes it would be a bloody hard DIY build. No I don't think moving the mirror on the bike is a good idea, should be locked in place once the angle is set(idea came partly from the lasers at work and partly from my telescope building days). 
Yeah driver is a pipe dream, maybe we should start harrasing George at taskled now.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Yeah driver is a pipe dream, maybe we should start harrasing George at taskled now.


I have already asked George here http://taskled.com/forum/index.php?topic=152.0
The inscrutable one has no plans yet

I do expect that Wayne at the sandwiche shoppe will have plans for a driver for the mce

but why not everybody ask george for a multi output driver for the MC-E and the likes of 
maybe he needs a challenge


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

..... lol, i could see Georges answer as soon as i read your post ....
wired series with a CC5W driver .... sorted!

i find my lights are either on or off, no need for a bFlex imho


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

This has been an interesting weekend I learnt lots on machining and designing stuff
now this light has been a good exercise for me if anyone wants to have it to finish it off and make a cracking light then it is yours for £20 plus posting which will be what ever it costs me and from past mailings of similarr things it is approx £1.75 in the UK
dont know about abroad but will find out.

as it was designed for my hope stem here are the dimentions

bolt hole centres across = 35 mm
bolt hole centres up n down =37 mm
made for oversize bars = 31.5 ish mm diameter
sockets for optics 20mm dia but may need opening out for optic holder 
socket depth 15 mm but there is room to go deeper to 20 mm 
width across 46 mm

I have not done anything to fix the angle of the swivel head so it can be set to where ever you want it.


the reason for sale is it has given me even more daft ideas on a similar vein so I am going to do a mk 3 for myself over the next few weeks 

I did offer it to Dweeby for free because it was his original idea but it was wrong for his stem and he did not want to change stems , so he opted to have the block of ali to make his own so expect some piccys from him soon .


Thanks to everyone for the advise and comments 


Troutie


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

znomit,
Every time I look at your drawing I think SLR camera in reverse.
So a lense on the front to focus the light might work. It would be one hard thing to make though.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

Just another thought after troutie and his bolt problem.

One piece, and you can still get to the bolts. A spot at the top and a wide at the bottom.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

dweeby said:


> znomit,
> Every time I look at your drawing I think SLR camera in reverse.
> So a lense on the front to focus the light might work. It would be one hard thing to make though.


No optics go directly on the LED before the mirror. An eliptical mirror from a telescope would be perfect.... just machine the cylinderical hole and slide in LED/optic/mirror.

Grab one of your lights and put it on a mirror at 45 degrees. See?


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

Ahh I understand now.
Never thought of a curved mirror. A bit like the way night club/disco lights work these days?
That could be quite a neat compact unit.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*The mark 3 takes shape , it needs a name now*

OK I have been back in the workshop and this is hopefully my new light as long as I dont screw it up in the finishing.

Apologies to Dweeby for the blatent copy of his idea 

But hopefully the lump of ali he recieved today will make up for the theft.

I have photoed them side by side for camparison.


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## Guest (Jul 8, 2008)

*How On Earth*

Troutie
How on Earth did you do that in a day?

I'm glad you liked my idea so much but thats just not right, a day? one sodding little day....and it's better than the one I made out of wood. 
It will take me that long to drill a sodding bloody hole:madman: and it will probably be wonky:madmax: 

Now be very proud of your skills and stop messing with bike bits and go and earn millions at NASA. 

So a great big :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: and thanks for the paper wieght that you sent me .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

well done Mr Trout :thumbsup:

that is one seriously impressive piece of handcrafted shiny metal .....










heaven only knows what you could achieve with a good machine shop


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*understatement*



HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> well done Mr Trout :thumbsup:
> 
> that is one seriously impressive piece of handcrafted shiny metal .....
> 
> heaven only knows what you could achieve with a good machine shop


No kidding. I think he might need a Thomson stem so he can make a extra mark IV or V.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dweeby said:


> Troutie
> How on Earth did you do that in a day?
> 
> I'm glad you liked my idea so much but thats just not right, a day? one sodding little day....and it's better than the one I made out of wood.
> ...


I started it sunday evening and have spent 7 hours with most of the work done with a hacksaw and files , with the final shaping and smoothing with a very cheap belt sander from B&Q. 
The optic holes are the hardest bit and a drill press is recomended I inherited a cheap one from my dad in law along with a bix box of drill bits

I ground a 20 mm drill bit flat and sharpened it then drilled ever bigger holes until it would fit in then carefully flattened the hole with the modded bit.

Abit of a problem there is the base of the hole is not flat more convex so that is going to be hard grinding it out and smoothing it

next step is to get a very fine grit belt for the sander and get it ready for a good dremeling to finish

Ref the paper weight can you weigh it acuratley before you start cutting for me .

Ta for the comments working with my hands and tools is the only thing I am good at 
cannot design for toffee.

and it has taken me 3 attempts to get one I am happy with . the good news is I am still on the original hack saw blade which was new when I started the mk1


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

notaknob said:


> No kidding. I think he might need a Thomson stem so he can make a extra mark IV or V.


Cheers bruce I wonder who has a thompson stem ???


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> well done Mr Trout :thumbsup:
> 
> that is one seriously impressive piece of handcrafted shiny metal .....
> 
> ...


I only hope it does work and use the bars for heat removal as 8 cree emitters in this small a space may have some serious heat , This is why I really wanted a one piece design
and was not happy with the swivel mk2 although I like the look of the mk2 it does weigh a lot more than the mk3


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

OK... this is an alignment thingee for my telescope but demonstrates my nutty idea well.

Hollow tube with a hole in the side. 









Oval mirror inside the hole set at 45 degrees, shouldn't have a hole in the middle!
Thats an aaa torch from kai to get an idea of scale...









Poke the torch in and look in the hole. 









What the beam looks like. Its a bit messed from the hole in the middle of the mirror and a lip in the tube, but you get the idea. Normal throw but spill(that missed the mirror) directly in front.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Very interesting concept ,

so have I got this right no optic bare cree single or MCe , 
how far from the mirror 

is the mirror flat or shaped 

I think there may be lots of lumins hitting the walls of the tube so would that need to be very shiny to bounce it out the hole


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Very interesting concept ,
> 
> so have I got this right no optic bare cree single or MCe ,
> how far from the mirror
> ...


Optic as normal, pushed up to mirror... flat mirror. Mirror big enough to catch all the light off the optic... 
Its not ideal because you have mirror losses 10%. But you can do a stealthy light that doesn't poke out. :thumbsup:


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2008)

Troutie
I'm sill amazed. 
I hope to start mine at the weekend, I want to do it in the garden but it won't stop raining. I bet when yours is finished it's not much more than double the weight of the face plate.

The weight of the Ali before any cutting is 360gr/13oz.
Can't wait to yours when it's finished.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*polished and waiting for leds/optics*

 Dweeby wait no longer   

I am well chuffed with it :thumbsup:























































full size pics here 
http://pics-by-chris.fotoblog.org.uk/c1379760_73.html

I have not done anything with the front because the holes for optics are too deep so the front will need filing shorter , 
I do not know what the depth of the optic / holder / led pcb will be .

I might get the leds and optics ordered soon and get in the que at cutters I am not sure which optics to go for yet


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

*Heat transfer advice*

Hi Guys - just a piece of advice from the alloy yacht spars experience NOT to use any paste that contains zinc or copper to meld this to your bars - both these metals will set up a galvanic cell with the aluminium and corrode the heat transfer surfaces and may cause your bars to snap.
The only metals you can use are alumimium (and the aluminium oxide pastes like Ceramique), stainless steel, and silver. The latter I'm not fully sure of because it is uncommon in yacht spars!!.

It may also be worth considering using aluminium foil in the gap as this will compress/deform to give quite a good heat transfer surface too.

As for heat transfer to the air, the surface area is the biggest factor, so all these smooth profiles are reducing the area, and also, matt black is the the best at both absorbing and radiating heat so polished alloy is less effective. Thats why almost every commercial heatsink you see is matt black!

This idea of heat transfer to the bars is great but the heat "loss" to air is all about surface area. Thermal mass of metal is just to quickly absorb initial heat generated as waste by the high current through the LED. We want not just to keep the led from burning out, but they give out more light if temp kept at 25°C or so.

Most designs so far have had circumferential fins as theses are easy to turn on a lathe. Fins aligned front to back with airflow direction will be much better, and, as the heat is carried away by air rising when stationary, fins on top will be very slightly more effective than underneath - but potentially nastier in a body-contact incident. They can be round corrugations style as it is area that counts not sharpness. Even small fins are a huge increase in surface area though, so not much will be needed. Someone in one thread (I looked back - it was dweeby in another thread) did one of these from cut up bits of heat sink, and others have looked at the heatsinks used for model helicopter motors - both are in the better direction. There are also some small heatsinks used in things like SMPS which look like being user firendly.

Best heat-loss design then would be radial fins and matt black anodising.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Fre3ud 
Thanks for pointing out the danger of galvanic corrosion and it is something I had not thought about.

also I take your point about fins and surface texture and have built various lights with fins that keep cold on the bike or the helmet and I may paint it mat black in the future .

I have tested the heat transfer to the bars with my existing lights which didnot need the additional heatsinking and a very narrow clamp area and it does work quite well even in still air.
This light in comparison ok has not got the finning of the others but does have a massive surface area in contact with the bars which then increases the surface to air and also has a good surface area to air in the light body , from my experience with other lights I am 75% happy that they will not overheat and will be controling them with dimmable bflex drivers 

as non of us yet know how the MC E will perform I am sure that even at low power they will still be a cracking light . it is also in a good position to monitor the heat 

It is a gamble that I take but ( NO RISK NO FUN ) and I will be reporting back here wether it is a cracking success :thumbsup: or a dismal failure:madman: 

cheers Trout


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

fre3ud said:


> Most designs so far have had circumferential fins as theses are easy to turn on a lathe. Fins aligned front to back with airflow direction will be much better, and, as the heat is carried away by air rising when stationary, fins on top will be very slightly more effective than underneath - but potentially nastier in a body-contact incident. They can be round corrugations style as it is area that counts not sharpness.
> 
> Best heat-loss design then would be radial fins and matt black anodising.


In general that was quite a good post, but i do have to disagree with you about proper fin orientation. The worst case thermal condition is still air. Design to that. Any air flow (riding) will quickly cool the light enough that finning designed for still air will be more than adequate. Radial finning made on a lathe is quite reasonable for bike lights, although some other fin orientations are probably superior. Of course, if you never stop for more than a couple minutes, make the light as small as you feel like you can get away with.

Basically, if your light is only warm to the touch after about 15 minutes of sitting on the bench (you can hold your finger to it for ~10 seconds without it hurting), you are doing fine thermally. This assumes you have a quality heat path within the light (LED to outside world) and what you are touching is aluminum.

Some very cool ideas in this thread, btw.


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2008)

troutie I'm glad that you are chuffed with it, you should be.
I got my wife to have a look at it and she thinks it's great and that takes some doing.
I don't think mine will be quite as good but I will start it very soon.
Nice to see the Dremel out, great little tool. The little ali reflectors have turned up and are better than I expected so I may use them. 
And do you know the weight ?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

GMF said:


> The worst case thermal condition is still air. Design to that. Any air flow (riding) will quickly cool the light enough that finning designed for still air will be more than adequate.


This has been true so far. Lights with one power setting need to be designed for highest cooling when stationary.
If you are using multiple power levels cooling was a non issue because at any speed where there is little airflow you need little light. Dunno if this is true with the MC-E as the power density is 3x.
Ideally light levels would ramp smoothly off the speedo sensor and go from 50lm stopped to 1500lm at 40kph. This would mean all you would need to play with when riding is an on/off button.

ps, troutie, that light is fantastic.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

GMF said:


> Basically, if your light is only warm to the touch after about 15 minutes of sitting on the bench (you can hold your finger to it for ~10 seconds without it hurting), you are doing fine thermally. This assumes you have a quality heat path within the light (LED to outside world) and what you are touching is aluminum.


15 minutes :yikes: you could cook eggs on my quad cree R2 light after 5 minutes if I left it on that long on the bench and it trips the Bflex set at 60 degrees in 2 minutes










, But with a small airflow from a little battery fan it only just gets warm,

my take on this is if it heats up quickly and has a reasonable mass then it has a good thermal path to the outside as long as it cools fast with an suitable airflow

I am going to use the MM E`s on stars for ease so should have a good path , would be better to use bare emitters direct to the light body .

I still have the option of drilling small holes down the back of the leds which would get air flowing nearer the emitters , but that would really spoil the look of the light so would be a last resort 
as it is a tiny hole up from the bottom to behind the leds and I would be able to measure the heat close up .



dweeby said:


> I don't think mine will be quite as good but I will start it very soon.


Dont undersell yourself just take your time and be carefull you only have the one lump I had 3 attempts .

weight not got any good scales but averaged between 40 / 60 grammes :eekster: can that be right , have to visit post office and weigh it there.



zmonit said:


> ps, troutie, that light is fantastic.


Thanks Znomit thats cool from the  MASTER OF MINIMAL


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*just done a costing*

I have just been working out what this project is going to cost me.

2- cree MC E `s on stars @ $25.49 = $50.98
2 optics @ $ 7.95 = $15.90
postage from cutters $10.00
----------
sub total $ 76.88
2 - Bflex from taskled @ $30 = $ 60.00 I have the Bflex`s allready
postage $ 10.00
=======
total $ 146.88 or £ 74.28 in uk money
that leaves £25 for stuff like switches and conectors and stuff.

so £100 or $200 for 1500 lumen ( possibly) light makes me


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Power Supply*

So Troutie what are you using to power this beast?

2 bFlex, are you going to run a driver for each light and if so powered in parrallel from the one source?

I have three sets of lights already but this thread has me absolutely addicted again:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> So Troutie what are you using to power this beast?
> 
> 2 bFlex, are you going to run a driver for each light and if so powered in parrallel from the one source?
> 
> I have three sets of lights already but this thread has me absolutely addicted again:thumbsup:


one of these with an adaptor from the sandwichshoppe over at CPF

















I am planning to use the 2 Bflex one for each side they are going to live in side the stem
and I then need a good small conector for the battery to plug it to this is going to be installed in the stem somewhere .

I thing I should get 2.5 hours from the battery but the maths is not my strong point .
maybe more as Znomit points out you dont need that many lumins often..

 but what is this need , it is want that matters


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> but what is this need , it is want that matters


and who wins the pi$$ing contest at the "light off" competition with your mates:eekster:

I love it mate. You've made one of the slickest looking bar lights I have ever seen. Cut the weight down by using the stem to house the controllers and using the housing as the stem faceplate but then, "wait for it there's more", you whip out a 2nd hand 18v power tool battery to fire the beast up :thumbsup: Thats gold

But here is where I get confused. If the MC E needs 4 x 3.6v each plus 1 for the driver then each light needs 15.4volts. So how do you drive two from the one battery. Do you have to run the drivers in parrallel or series from the battery?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Do you have to run the drivers in parrallel or series from the battery?


Bflex has a "slave mode". You hook two together and they run synchronised off the same control switch and battery but drive different LED strings. Each MC-E gets its own bflex. Clever little device.

Troutie, i think you've wasted a lot of time making that light pretty. 
Nobody is going to appreciate it, they'll all be rolling around screaming *AAAARRRGH MY RETINAS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT*
:yesnod:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> and who wins the pi$$ing contest at the "light off" competition with your mates:eekster:
> 
> I love it mate. You've made one of the slickest looking bar lights I have ever seen. Cut the weight down by using the stem to house the controllers and using the housing as the stem faceplate but then, "wait for it there's more", you whip out a 2nd hand 18v power tool battery to fire the beast up ?


Muahha muahha :devil::devil::devil:Who wins the p1$$ing contest :devil::devil::devil:

Why Me of course  

:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:
:yikes:









    
Ha Ha they are not really all mine but I have built them all

I did think of doing a beamshot but could not find anywhere dark enough


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Bflex has a "slave mode". You hook two together and they run synchronised off the same control switch and battery but drive different LED strings. Each MC-E gets its own bflex. Clever little device.
> 
> Troutie, i think you've wasted a lot of time making that light pretty.
> Nobody is going to appreciate it, they'll all be rolling around screaming *AAAARRRGH MY RETINAS HAVE BEEN BURNED OUT*
> :yesnod:


I have been thinking about slaving them , and was going to ask you which you think is best slave and one switch controls all , or 2 switchs and control each seperate.

cheers Chris


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have been thinking about slaving them , and was going to ask you which you think is best slave and one switch controls all , or 2 switchs and control each seperate.
> 
> cheers Chris


I would run them slaved. 2 switches is too complicated.


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## clifbar (Mar 14, 2007)

Great job guys,
This is simply the coolest bike light design idea I've seen since I started looking here and at candlpowerforums. Awesome job. To bad I don't have the time money or skill to try to make one for my stem.


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

*Variable speed drive*



znomit said:


> Ideally light levels would ramp smoothly off the speedo sensor and go from 50lm stopped to 1500lm at 40kph. This would mean all you would need to play with when riding is an on/off button..


Now there's an idea - easy if dynamo driven.
Probably just as easy to do by using a thermistor instead of the pot in the dimmable versions of the drivers. Slow or stationary = hot = reduced current. Moving = cooler = increased current = increased light. Might be tricked by rain, but idea seems feasible.

Some drivers already have temp compensation to prevent thermal runaway on the LED chip.
Can't be hard to mod them to do this. The driver I have has 5k pot to adjust from 350mA to 1050mA - will start looking for suitable thermistor and see what happens

Phil


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers clifbar all comments welcome specialy good ones.

This is what has been happening this evening I have the 2 bflex drivers wich had been in some other lights for a while and these are what I am going to use for the Trout light,

It took me some time to un solder the wires now that is a pain to do .
then I havw wired them in master and slave mode that made my brain hurt










I also made a module that is a nice tight fit inside the stem from some delrin



















A question to the experts would you pot the drivers in the holder or just seal it up with silicon.

I needed to see if it fit the bars so took some piccys too


































Do you think it should be black and stealthy :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## DrP (Mar 9, 2008)

Looking good!

Out of interest, how are you going to get INTO the stem to place all the leccy gubbins??

DrP


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

DrP said:


> Looking good!
> 
> Out of interest, how are you going to get INTO the stem to place all the leccy gubbins??
> 
> DrP


DrP take the light off remove the bars and there is a big hollow inside the stem which the capsule fits in


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Do you think it should be black and stealthy :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Yep. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 
Wow, that really is the coolest light. 
You really have raised the bar for all of us on this one.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Stealth?*

You've got to be kidding me mate, there ain't no way you'll be going anywhere in "stealth" mode with that thing turned on   

Znomit, thanks. I didn't know about the stealth mode. Is it a feature on the current models or has been there on all of them? Maybe I should send George an email

Ok now Troutie a couple of things for you. I don't know what type of riding you do but can I suggest you shorten your cables as much as physically possible. I used to leave my bar lights on the bike all the time but then I OTB on the approach side of a 3ft log. I caught my hydro hoses between the light and the log, coming within a bees dick of cutting through them:nono: You've clearly got more skill in the garage than I do so I assume you probably do on the bike as well, wouldn't be hard really, but just thought I should share.

The other thing is, do you plan on wiring through the back of the lights, through the bar and into the stem or are you going to come out of the bottom of the light, loop under the bar and then into the bottom of the stem via a hole? I might be a little concerned about drilling through the bars at their centre point. Then again I don't know if it would be of more of a concern having a couple of holes through your stem.

It would be really cool if you could feed the wires out the other end of the stem, through a small hole in the steerer and mod / manufacture a headset cap that incorporated a plug and switch. Just thinking out loud

Go on, you know you want to take up that challenge:idea:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers emu26
yes looking at the pics the cables could do with shortening a tad and as the forks compress might move up into the way and cause shadows another project while waiting for the leds to arrive 

the current plan is to enter the light head underneath and into the stem underneath at the front there is room for a 4 mm hole in the centre next to the bars .

at the back it is still in the thinking about and is the next bit to tackle.
good idea the top cap one Ta :thumbsup: and I will be looking at it soon and I do have plenty of unstressed steerer tube to go at . 

I want the MC E and optics now to complete the job :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Here is where I am at now , got the 2 Bflex`s wired as master and slave and tested and working nicely . 
got the capsule ready for the bflexs and now looking at routing the wires so next a few piccys like exploded diagrams




























I have left the plastic module out so you can see it naked.:ciappa:










I have some ideas on how I should go with the wiring but would like some suggestions
from on here  please

I am looking closly at emu26 suggestion



emu62 said:


> It would be really cool if you could feed the wires out the other end of the stem, through a small hole in the steerer and mod / manufacture a headset cap that incorporated a plug and switch. Just thinking out loud


The cable I am using for the leds is an old usb cable wich has 4 cores and is nice and flexible .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

one other thing I found out about 30 seconds after I had made the capsule for the Bflex`s was this










a dremel cut off wheel container is just the right size for 2 bflexs not only that but also this










it is also just the right size to fit in my hope stem

:madman: :madman: :madman: :madman:


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

All coming along nicely Troutie

My plan is to use the grooves that are already in the Thomson stem to run the wire without drilling any holes. Your Hope stem is different though but these pictures should give you an idea of what I mean.

Good luck.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Does that channel follow on round the stem too.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

Yes, where I have put a red bit on your pic. however looking at yours I think you should go over and not under the bars and you will only require a short channel. As I have had this in my head for a year I've worked out most of the probs. But I don't think you can avoid drilling a small hole in the steerer.

A 2.5mm DC socket from maplins is a nice fit in the centre of the top cap but you will have to put a liitle cap on it when not in use.


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

Silly red blobs are all you have to remove and you can run the wire to the back of the LEDs.


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Probably weight saving*



troutie-mtb said:


> Does that channel follow on round the stem too.


Yes, on the Thomson Elite it does.










Without bar









The clamping mechanism might need to be modified, but that's not crucial to the structural integrity of the stem.

I was wondering how you were going to pull that off without modifying that Hope. It's not a piece of equipment that I'd change without worrying about catastrophic failure...


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Does that channel follow on round the stem too.


Same on the X4


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks Bruce and Ron the Thompson stem looks tailor made for the stem light .

I have been studying my hope stem and with your feedback it looks like I can remove a channel without losing any structual strength like in Dweeby s red blobs pic .
one problem for me if I go the top route is I would need to drill a bent hole I think my best and easyiest route is underneath , there will be a bit of cable showing but it will be underneath .

There is no problem with drilling a 4 mm hole in the steerer tube , because where you need to drill it is not clamped or stressed 


How is the sawing going Dweeby when I saw some new posts I thought it would be some pics from the dweeby workshop.


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## Guest (Jul 13, 2008)

OK, here are some pics of the state of the art Dweeby workshop.

The good thing is the aluminium is a lot softer than I am used to but it is very easy to cut off more than required......

....which I already have! Might be OK though.


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

my first post on this forum  and thought it may as well be to troutie, well done mate, it will be great to see some shots of it in action once youve finished it


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Well they say the first cut is the deepest it looks ok still from the pics
lets have some good weather for a few weeks to keep the workshop dry..

Hi Smudge mate 
Welcome to the nut house. just the man what battery to run 2 cree mce leds for about 3 hours .
and have you seen a connector that I could fit into a stem top cap needs to be small and mudproof 

I am wanting to put a switch and connector in there dont really want to drill into the stem

yes I cant wait to see it lit up so hoping Cutters do a quick job when they come into stock.
I got my order in last week. probably at the bottom of a long list


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## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

what a design bud, the Mutts Nuts !!..

here is your start to production bud, i hope the led's have a nice pattern for boh width and distance then your really got it nailed !..

(i also joined up just to reply to this


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Mr -dither
Welcome .:thumbsup: :thumbsup: 
Thanks for the comments , it gives you a rosy glow when good comments come in . 

I got your pm and will reply this evening


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## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

i really like this idea here too, but there was a lack of some form of lock on the swivel joint..

have a look at this pic to possibly spark some form of idea as to adjusting swivel point
"https://www.fatbmx.com/uploads3/2008/wk16/bckye4.jpg"

i'll try to draw something up on pc as to what i mean and post it up 



troutie-mtb said:


> Whoa , way to go Dweeby , just cant resist
> are you a salesman , you sweet talking :crazy:  ( sold the idea to the missus )
> 
> :drumroll: cant wait to see some pics how you are going to do it.
> ...


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## mr-dither (Jul 14, 2008)

here is an idea i had from your design...

this would be the adjustment that you then required, not sure how you'd then route the wires (guess they would be bottom feed)

excuse the rought free hand


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*headset cap for the switch and power input*

I have been working on the solution to getting power in and a switch to control the Bflex`s 
I really dont want to drill holes in my Hope stem so this is what I am thinking .

The cap has an M6 allen bolt that runs into the star nut in the steerer tube which gets in the way of putting the switch and socket there .

So I propose to make a cap which does the job in a slightly different wat to normal

here is a rough diagram










I have not drawn the stem in to keep it simple .

The wires will enter the steerer tube through a small hole drilled in to the steerer inside the stem.

I need to find a suitable small power input socket and plug next .


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*All hail Troutie, the king of design!!*

Ok so I'm not sure about the mechanics of this but I would try and keep the star nut up high enough that it is within the depth of the stem if you know what I mean. It probably wouldn't be an issue if it were lower as the star nut is only used to compress everything until the stem is tightened to the steerer but you can never be too safe.

If you're pushed for room and you are going to manufacture your own cap why not just make it a bit taller to give you more room above the star nut.

Sorry about not getting back to your PM. All my tools are packed away at the moment, if someone else puts their hands up then let them have it.

Cheers

Stuart


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> If you're pushed for room and you are going to manufacture your own cap why not just make it a bit taller to give you more room above the star nut


it is not the room above the starnut that is the problem it is the 10mm countersunk hole for the M6 bolt that takes up too much room .

with the Bflex switch it needs a min of 9 mm of the cap then a power socket which I estimate will need an 8 mm hole so will need 10 mm so it is the bolt head that is in the way .

with my design I can get rid of the bolt head and win the 4 mm back so it should just work 
and my steerer is a 1-1/4 so it would be even tighter with an 1-1/8 steerer.

I could do it like znomit with a boltless topcap and preload the headset first then push in the new cap

I have got plenty of time to ponder this one unless the MCE`s drop through the letterbox today


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I could do it like znomit with a boltless topcap and preload the headset first then push in the new cap


Yeah, ktroniks idea but the guy at the LBS agreed it was fine. You'll maybe need to mod the original cap to clear the wires. 
Why don't you run the power up from the bottom of the steerer tube, around the star nut? Not sure what you,ve got in mind for power but makes sense for water bottle batteries. Small mom switch can be drilled into the existing cap.
Otherwise, I found mounting the switch on the underside of the stem very ergonomic.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

*we`re not worthy, we`re not worthy, ........*

i`m surprised your not having the switch on the bars !!
how about the power socket on a short/long lead
not as neat but .........


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Gone And Done It Now + A Beamshot*



HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> i`m surprised your not having the switch on the bars !!
> how about the power socket on a short/long lead
> not as neat but .........


 :eekster: wow hey hey its hendo you must be psychic:eekster:

right after lots of pondering I have finaly gon and drilled holes in my hope stem
for the wires.










and steerer tube




























I would have the switch installed in this photo but the little ba$tard is hiding some where on my garage floor :madman:










and now here is the psychic bit










And now the bit you have all been waiting for 
a beamshot 

:band:

:band:










 Ha Ha Ha the leds are not here yet


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

"Ha Ha Ha the leds are not here yet"
..............:cryin: .............. Christmas perhaps???


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Should I Be Worried :???:*

 Because I have nothing better to do while waiting for the mc-e`s and optics to be sent from cutters I have been looking at what I am doing and just realised that the Bflex steps 350-500-750-1000 ma 
now looking at cutters site and the cree mce they say maximum off 700ma.

I am not anyway electronics savvy - will my leds be ok driven at 750ma or am I to only to drive them at 500ma
I know the 50ma over is not a lot but when I asked George at taskled if the 20 volt input for the Bflex could be 21 volt he said no as the spec said 20 v , ok now they are 25 volt so no problem for the newer ones.

also they say 790 lumens max at 700ma so for you electronic people out there what should I expect from 500 ma and if ok to overdrive 750 ma


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

i can`t see a problem, even the "bog standard" XR-E spec says max 700ma
and do you stick to 700ma .... nah i didn`t think so  lol
............... of course more current = more heat, this could be a major issue


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah the XR-E came out with a 700mA spec. I guess people started over driving them to 1A without trouble so Cree upped the spec to 1A. 750mA no worries. I expect the bflex wont explode at 20.1v either but George has to draw the line somewhere.

Troutie here is a good chart of a Q5 V/P/lm from one of the boffins at CPF. I think the MC-E is a little behind on lumens but should be close.
Total output for your setup: 
750mA about 1500lm. 20.5W
500mA around 1100lm. 13.2W
Note 36% increase in lumens but 55% increase in power(and only 2/3 runtime).

Me? I'd run it at 500mA because 1100lm is heaps. Actually I'd run both in parallel off a single 1A bflex. :thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers guys :thumbsup: for the reasurance .



znomit said:


> Me? I'd run it at 500mA because 1100lm is heaps. Actually I'd run both in parallel off a single 1A bflex.


I did consider running off 1 bflex and it would be $30 cheaper but as this is a very new project I wanted to be able to push the 2 MC E a to at least its rated maximum .mainly to see how hot it will get and how fast , and if the bars will do a good job of sucking the heat out and cooling it.

when I started this thread I was looking for a light that gave the most light from the minimum size , and with the help from all those who chipped in with advice and ideas I think we have achieved a very cool looking light that can be left on the bike all the time ,
and ultimatly run from a dynohub :thumbsup: in the future , that is where you 3 dyno boffins will be harrased for advice probably next year .

I did consider paralelling then from a maxflex then they would get the full 700ma

I am well aware of the heat this will be able to generate if pushed hard from the quad R2 lights I have built when run at 1000ma and so when I hand it over to the owner it is set to max at 750 ma and they dont get to find out how to change it .

 I am now ready to just instal the leds and optics plug in the battery and switch on :thumbsup: camera ready for the beamshots :thumbsup:

:sad::sad: I dont do waiting very well :sad::sad: so might finish the mk2 swivle version and put 2 Q5`s in it.

So I quess this thread goes in to the pending file for now I wonder how dweeby is getting on with his .


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> ...and ultimatly run from a dynohub
> 
> ...I did consider paralelling then from a maxflex then they would get the full 700ma


Once you go dyno you'll never go back to batteries... :ciappa:

I _think_ nightlightning run bflexes at 1200mA...Dunno if the hardware can go to 1400mA or not. Maybe ask George if he can reflash yours to 1400 while you wait for the LEDs.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*some real beamshots this time*

Ok so here are some beamshots from the carclo website , mc-e and their optics .


















What would you put in my light if it was yours .

I have also ordered an extra MCE and 26.5 optic to make a helmet light and I might start the housing for that but I am not sure wether to go for a 20 mm optic and make a tiny helmet light . or a 26.5 mm optic and make a slightly larger one

is the bigger one likley to be a better beam than the smaller optic
and which would you put in your helmet light .

I have used the eliptical in a previous build and really like its side spill so for the stem light I have ordered an eliptical and a tight plain to throw down the trail .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

.............:sad: :sad: .."I dont do waiting very well".............:sad: :sad:

so, how long d`ya reckon we gonna have to wait troutie ??
just noticed mark posted this last week .....
https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2550706&postcount=23
.
and i`m gonna see if this hope light can be upgraded with my 2 MC-E :thumbsup:










.......... whichever way you go i`d get the medium frosted flavor


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie for the bar light I would have gone a medium throw and an eliptical for the side throw. I think the narrow will be too tight for the distance you are going to throw .

For the helmet, " small is beautiful" but here is where you might have a problem with just the one "high powered" light. I've found the best combo is a medium throw and a narrow. A single narrow on an MCE might be too tight to be effective at "medium" distance throw, so just past the 30m of your bar lights but a medium beam pattern might be too wide for that much light, sending you "trail blind" from the reflections of the trees lining your favourite sniggle.

Decisions decisions, tough dilema to be in huh?:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> .............:sad: :sad: .."I dont do waiting very well".............:sad: :sad:
> 
> so, how long d`ya reckon we gonna have to wait troutie ??
> just noticed mark posted this last week .....
> ...


Cutters were quite quick when the R2 was announced , in fact they ran out of stock fast also , and if it is a list of orders I think you are a couple of weeks in front of my order so will probably get yours first :cryin:

re the hope now that will be one hell of an upgrade from 
300 lumens to :yikes:1400 lumens 

one small step for hey hey its hendo one qiant leap for lumenkind


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie for the bar light I would have gone a medium throw and an eliptical for the side throw. I think the narrow will be too tight for the distance you are going to throw .
> 
> For the helmet, " small is beautiful" but here is where you might have a problem with just the one "high powered" light. I've found the best combo is a medium throw and a narrow. A single narrow on an MCE might be too tight to be effective at "medium" distance throw, so just past the 30m of your bar lights but a medium beam pattern might be too wide for that much light, sending you "trail blind" from the reflections of the trees lining your favourite sniggle.
> 
> Decisions decisions, tough dilema to be in huh?:thumbsup:


Yes emu26 you talk much sense for the twin stem light.

I was going to make a torch with the third one and wanted it to be a spot and thrower to spot house numbers from my van , but have changed my mind and am going for a helmet light , I wonder what the eliptical would be like for the helmet , there would be plenty of lumens coming out and non wasted going up in to the trees , just depends how far down trail it shines .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*I asked George*



znomit said:


> I think nightlightning run bflexes at 1200mA...Dunno if the hardware can go to 1400mA or not. Maybe ask George if he can reflash yours to 1400 while you wait for the LEDs.


OK I asked George the question and this is what he says

troutie 
Newbie

Posts: 20

is this possible 
« on: July 17, 2008, 10:33:04 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi George 
This has been suggested on the mtbr forum and I wondered if it was possible 
I am making a dual mce light to replace the face plate on my stem 
and as you know the mce max`s at 700ma at the moment 
I am using 2 bflex as master and slave , but znomit suggested this

I think nightlightning run bflexes at 1200mA...Dunno if the hardware can go to 1400mA or not. Maybe ask George if he can reflash yours to 1400 while you wait for the LEDs.

so that is the question as it would be nice to run 2 mce leds from 1 bflex in paralel , is this possible .

I am about to send an order for a couple of bflex but will wait for an answer first

Thanks Chris

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

taskled 
Administrator
Full Member

Posts: 167

Re: is this possible 
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 12:07:26 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Max output for bFlex with UI-uni firmware is 1000mA. Nightlighting's firmware is set for 1200mA.

Electrical limit for the bFlex driver is 1200mA, so it is not possible to modify the firmware for 1400mA.

cheers,
george.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

troutie 
Newbie

Posts: 20

Re: is this possible 
« Reply #2 on: Today at 12:19:09 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks George.

We are a greedy lot always wanting more .

I dont suppose that with the way led design is going that you are 
planning a redesign for your drivers to up the ante with output 
just to satisfy the greedy light builders out here. 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

taskled 
Administrator
Full Member

Posts: 167

Re: is this possible 
« Reply #3 on: Today at 08:45:18 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No - giiven that 1A covers the majority of high powered LEDs I don't see a compelling reason to redesign the drivers. It takes a lot of effort to design a driver that is stable over a wide input/output voltage range AND current range.

I have built a lot of prototypes to test different driver chips to see if I could find ones that would be stable up to 2A and I haven't found any that I'm happy with, yet - that would also provide a compact solution.

Yes, you all are a greedy lot :yesnod:

cheers,
george.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Whats the difference between elliptical and elliptical orthogonal?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Whats the difference between elliptical and elliptical orthogonal?


I thought the orthogonal was elipticle but up and down

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Orthogonal)
Jump to: navigation, search
In mathematics, orthogonal, as a simple adjective not part of a longer phrase, is a generalization of perpendicular. It means "at right angles". The word comes from the Greek ὀρθός (orthos), meaning "straight", and γωνία (gonia), meaning "angle". Two streets that cross each other at a right angle are orthogonal to one another. In recent years, "perpendicular" has come to be used more in relation to right angles outside of a coordinate plane context, whereas "orthogonal" is used when discussing vectors or coordinate geometry.

I think the photo might be wrong

and surly you can just turn the optic through 90 degrees


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I thought the orthogonal was elipticle but up and down
> ...
> I think the photo might be wrong
> and surly you can just turn the optic through 90 degrees


Yeah, nah. It only fits on the LED one way so you'd need to turn the LED and optic 90 degrees.
Would make sense if it was set at 45 degrees so it kinda blurred out the gap between the dies.
Anyhooo, I see big possibilities for high/low beam action here. :ihih:


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

..........I see big possibilities for high/low beam action here. :ihih: 

what, like main/dipped on a car lol :crazy:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Anyhooo, I see big possibilities for high/low beam action here. :ihih:

Sounds a cool idea how you gonna make it work .
not that I want to steal your ideas  

question on the dyno side .
can you use a maxflex with a dynohub , 

also can you not have a small battery back up that switches in when you stop to keep the light on and also charges from the dyno.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Sounds a cool idea how you gonna make it work .
> not that I want to steal your ideas
> 
> question on the dyno side .
> ...


Just looking at 2 MC-E on the dyno. Switch between a voltage doubler with 4LED(250mA low beam) to a full wave rectifier with all 8 LEDs at 500mA . Need to ask Martin about it to see if it will work. Project for next summer probably. Yes I get hassled by cars with my lights on high so powering the 4 lower dies most of the time would be good. It would also put more light right in front of me most of the time with the ability to light everything when needed.
The "low beam" would probably be three narrow with the one pointing at oncoming traffic turned off, plus one elliptical.

Maxflex, dunno why you would, the circuits at pilom.com are very efficient(95%). You could build a rectifier/regulator to drive the maxflex but thats getting complicated.

Battery charging thread here. You could always run a single die separately off batteries. 2AAs and a micropuck give 350mA for 2-3hrs. On the MTB I have a helmet light and on the road bike I have a blinky so I'm always lit when stopped.


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## sping (Jan 24, 2008)

So for an adjustable angle version, is it the right idea to have the bar clamp plate concave and the light convex? How about vice-versa?

The bar clamp plate is already convex, so a replacement part with a circular (horizontal cylindrical) profile would provide a surface a concave-backed light unit to rotate on.

A vertical slot cut in the stem clamp would allow you to screw into a hole in the back of the lamp unit to mount and adjust it.

Sorry no drawings... Make sense?

Hub dynamo has to be the way to go! They're able to light the 8 LEDs @ 500mA.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi sping

I take it you mean some thing a bit like this









it looks like a simpler way 
I may do a mockup and see what it looks like


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## sping (Jan 24, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hi sping
> 
> I take it you mean some thing a bit like this
> 
> ...


Yeah, that's what I was thinking. With a vertical slot in the plate, so that a screw into the light unit could attach it and adjust up/down.

Edit: and the light unit wouldn't be perpendicular, since most stems are angled. Some sort of common compromise (30 degrees?) starting angle, so it could adjust around that.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*OK I have got bored now , the helmet light*

 Hi folks I am bored waiting for the mce to come out 
so I am now going to start the design and machining of a dual MCE helmet light
 or should I say we will design and I will attempt the manufacture 

I have a few ideas what I want but dont want to influence the creativaty of the brains on here .
so a few questions to start with .

it is to be 2 mce so should it be 20 mm or 26.5 mm optics . they say a good big one will beat a good small one .

as this will be on the helmet it wont have the help from the bars to dispose of heat so it will need to be a good design.
is there a minimum surface area recomended for a single xre led for heatsinking

driving the 2 mce if I use one bflex then the max I can get is 500ma 
2 bflex and I can drive them at anything up to max 1000ma but then it becomes expensive and needs more space .

I don`t want to use a boost driver and have to heatsink that too
and I already have my 18 volt drill batteries and am not worried about the extra weight in my pack helps the workout.

so it is a blank canvas with only the 2 MCE leds as the starting point.

:bluefrown: yes i know znomit


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

There is an old rule that you need 1 square inch of surface per Watt of led power.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

super-fast said:


> There is an old rule that you need 1 square inch of surface per Watt of led power.


Ta
so for this project ,what watts = 1 MCE @ 700ma , and lets overdrive it @1000ma
and then build in a safety margin for still air somewhere hotter than the UK


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## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

1 MCE:
P=3,6 * 1 * 4 = 14,4 Watt that's quite a lot of surface


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Hey good call.
My curtain rail triple is 11W and outside aluminum surface is 7.5 sq inches. Another 4.5sq inches forced air duct inside the back = 12. Im guessing forcing the air in increases the heat transfer to the air. It doesn't get hot while riding but its a lot warmer than other lights I've made.

A nice little MC-E double will be 5x3cm front and 3 deep. 7sq inch area. 700mA x 3.5v x 8 = 20w(no overdrive troutie 1A bad), need another 13sq inches.

So you need a tardis light thats bigger on the inside than the outside. :thumbsup:

Basically a double skinned housing with slots all around all the way through and between the LEDs too, they can open wider behind the LEDs, put the driver in the batterypack (run a 4core wire to the light so the control button/switch can be on the light). How thin/deep can you machine?









Troutie its gonna be heaps of light so just build it and if it burns your head turn the power down. Its still 1000lm at 500mA.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:yikes:wow 20 sq inches minimum that is not going to be easy.

Where is DR Who when you need him.

so it might be better to go with the larger 26 mm optics just for the extra metal in the housing .


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

Good theory page at
http://robots.freehostia.com/Heatsinks/HeatsinksBody.html
Riding along = forced air.
Fog or rain should absorb more, but water-cooled is getting a bit heavy on a helmet..

To get big surface area easily Maybe use an of-the-shelf add-on like this:
http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=HH8518


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: thanks fre3ud that is a good link :thumbsup: 

when I have read it another 10 times i may understand it all but some good pointers there


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

just an update on the heat management .

I have put 2 Q5 leds on 20mm stars in the stem light with 2 ledil optics
and I have them powered at 1000ma to see how the heat built up so did a very low tech test using my hands as the heat tester .

first I ran the light off the bike sat on my bench at full power and timed it untill it got uncomfortable to touch , also I could touch the housing right at the back of the leds but it did not seem to be any different to the rest of the housing the light got to a point heatwise that was like a hot bath in 8 minutes just slowly getting warmer all the time.
I then switched on a desk fan at its lowest setting about 2 feet away from the light and within 1 minute it had cooled to about ambient , which I forgot to mention was 20c.

Next I put the stem light on the bike using copper grease because it is a temperary arrangment , instead of thermal grease and switched on at full , it is now 1hour later in still air in my garage with ambient the same 20c and the light and bars have not warmed at all to touch 

This does suggest to me that the concept for using the bars for heatsinking is a good one 
now how this will work when using the 2 proposed MCE emitters with another 6 leds producing heat will be an interesting time .

I may try and do a more accurate test if I can borrow a good multimeter with temp 
or could I use a meat thermometer .

A few more pics to follow later


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

because it is going to be a few weeks I wanted to see if I had got the angles somewhere near so as the post above put 2 Q5s in and hopefully will see what the angles are when it gets dark .
so here are a couple of pics of where it is so far.










it is hard to imagine that soon there will be 4 times the power from each side of this light.
in such a small footprint










if things work out I may try to get a beamshot or 2 this evening .


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Is this as a stupid idea or could it just work*

:crazy: Ok I am sat here in a red wine induced mellow thinking mood :crazy:

and suddenly :idea:As I am think that the biggest problem with the MCE package is the fact that we will have 4 times the heat output as a standard XRE in the same footprint 
and some of the diy brigade will be packing multiple mce`s in a compact stupidly powerfull light and thying to keep it cool too.

This is where the stem light and also a design that can fit closely to the bars come in and if I am correct not only will we have the larger surface otf the stem and bars to dissipate heat what about this for a simple and hopefully very efficient extra cooling method

:drumroll: the light is mounted on the bars either a light like mine or on each side of the stem , the bars are hollow with a plug in each end so a small ammount of water inside the bars and each end sealed then this water will slosh about as you are riding and take the heat with it and disperse it all over the bars it will be constantly moving as you ride and the bars will be like a radiator , and Ibet you would not need that much liquid in the bars weight wise .:drumroll:

Or have I been drinking too much wine


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi Troutie
This thread is now really two projects:
- the MCE bleeding edge light - with the heat control "challenge"
- the world beating "stem light" concept.

I think you are well under way with the heat control, but I'm not sure the MCE is really intended for this use. The beam shots from Carclo look a bit uspect to me too.
Be aware that water once heated is quite hard to cool, and that warm or hot water attacks and corrodes metals faster than cold water.

However, without wishing to diminish in any way the achievment so far. I think we need to get more adjustment into the angle of the "stem light". I know I often adjust both my helment light and my head-tube light (I have one there as it gives better surface definition and more stabilty cf bar-mount). The most common need is based on terrain - flatter/faster I want light to lead more, slower/technical I want pool of light closer in.
So I think we (you) might need to put some more effort into this aspect before the small object arrive from Cutter.
I'm guessing that you have test ridden this with the Q5 by now and the heat with them will be fine (and maybe a hand warmer for the cold winter nights), but I'm also guessing you've started re-thinking about the adjustability too.

A question of my own, if I may:
does anyone know with a triple lens if you get a better light pattern to use it it any particular orientation - two at top or two at bottom?

Phil


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Fre3ud 
Thanks again for some good comments 
and you are right it has turned into the 2 projects you mention and I am quite happy that the (small objects have not arrived yet ) as I would have rushed in to a build that I may have regretted.

No I have not yet test ridden the Q5 set up but as in my other posts there is no heat problem at all with just 2 leds in this setup in fact there is no hand warmer either 

The water idea was just a way to increase the surface area , like znomits tardis suggestion it could be a light oil not water and it will be moving most of the time so the heat it collects from the leds will be shared out over the full length of the bars .

I do agree about the adjustabilaty factor and am working on that as I would be quite happy for a bespoke light for myself but how to reach the masses .

on the optic question I have my thoughts that the triple should be the same whichever way you have it I have not noticed a pattern that would suggest otherwise.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

It has now got dark and I can just about work the camera 
so here are the beamshots from my stem light

but first some details 
2 Q5 s 1 ledil smooth spot and 1 ledil medium optic
distance to garage from light and camera
15 metres

this pic = f2.8 @ 2 seconds









this one f2.8 @ 1 second










this one f2.8 @ .5 second









and this one f 2.8 @ .25 second









the big quesion is why am I bothering with a more powerfull light ?

I have put all 4 shots in because they say the camera never lies 
but to my eyes number 2 is the most lifelike and it gives me a baseline for when the (small objects arrive ):ihih:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> the big quesion is why am I bothering with a more powerfull light ?


Looking good troutie. :thumbsup:

The answer to the big question is *Because you can*.

Regarding pointing if its a nice wide beam its not so important. I use the cutter 3/4 MR11s in narrow and wide and the beam doesn't really move around as I wobble up the hills or over bumps, the narrow maybe a little on the huge hills that my little legs struggle on.

I do think the big benefits from MC-E are underdriving it and getting really good battery life. Maybe 40% longer compared to 1 LED at 1A. Realistically troutie you aren't going to be running it on full power all night just for those scary down hill runs (do you have hills in england?) where you'll get heaps of air cooling. Good to hear the heat is transfering to the bars, nice. 
You could throw some triple rebel stars and optics in there I guess. Thats around 20w total.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

.... i also had thought of a small amount of distilled water in the bars, and because of the bars shape the water would always run to the centre as well as slopping about
...... or if the bar ends are open air will naturally draught through
there are other ways to aim the world beating "stem light" concept, eg
stem with different angle, longer/shorter forks, let some air out of one of your tires, etc etc
and to Tim ...........*yes we have some nice hills*


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Air scoop on one end of the bars and exhaust(scoop pointed backwards) on the other.


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## scuppy (Nov 10, 2007)

Some posters keep assuming the LED will be much hotter than single XR-E's. The Cree glossy says "without compromising thermal performance". To me that means wont get hotter than an XR-E. Have you done some temp tests troutie?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

scuppy said:


> Some posters keep assuming the LED will be much hotter than single XR-E's. The Cree glossy says "without compromising thermal performance". To me that means wont get hotter than an XR-E. Have you done some temp tests troutie?


Its a given that they will run hotter, they pack more energy into the same footprint. :madmax:

I think what that glossy means is if you heatsink them properly they don't get hotter than the XR-E.
Problem is they are 3x the watts so you need a much bigger heatsink. :skep:

We like cute little lights without big ugly heatsinks hanging off them.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Scuppy 
In answer to your question about testing , No testing yet because these MCE`s are not out in the real world yet 
Znomit sums it up nicely 

I can only go on past light building and useage to guess how hot they can get










The light on the left started as a cutter triple Q5 and works great both riding and in still air 
I then put in a cutter quad R2 when they came out It still works great but in still air it gets hot faster and trips the Bflex thermal cutoff , even on a slow climb on a still night.

now look at the stem light with 2 Q5 leds it heats up slowly when on the bench untill I chickened out but then on the bike where the bike = the big ugly heatsink hanging off the light  no heat it does not even start to get warm

but then add another 6 emitters , and it could be a different story

And I do like the idea of a cree powered hand warmer for the frosty night rides


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have put all 4 shots in because they say the camera never lies
> but to my eyes number 2 is the most lifelike and it gives me a baseline for when the (small objects arrive ):ihih:


I think that since the full monty will be 3x what this is currently delivering that you might think about the shortest exposure shot as your baseline.


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## scuppy (Nov 10, 2007)

znomit said:


> Its a given that they will run hotter, they pack more energy into the same footprint.


Energy in the form of heat or light?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

scuppy said:


> Energy in the form of heat or light?


Scuppy, the MC-E isn't doing anything particularly amazing. Its just 4 Cree EZ1000 dies (as seen in SSC P4, P7 and Cree XR-E) put together really close. The business of turning electricity into heat and light is still exactly the same, assuming you're putting the same power in. Its just now we can put more power in.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Now we know it will work sort of I now have a dilemma do I take the mx3 to bits and replace the Q5s with the MCEs when they arrive .

or do I make a mk4 with the 26 mm optics and is there any advantage of the 26mm over the 20mm optics.

Or do I thanks to cytoe do a triple for the stem light :madman: 

I am leaning towards a triple with the third driven seperatly with a view of running it from a dyno in the future


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*I say triple..*

of course If you used 26mm optics in that form factor, that would require bigger holes = even less mass to dissipate heat...right?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

mm correct I have been measuring my spare piece of alli and it can fit a double @ 26 mm 
or a triple @ 20 mm 
and so close but not close enough for 2 @26mm and 1 @ 20mm .


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

I wonder if we will see triple/quad MR11 optics for MC-E :eekster:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> I wonder if we will see triple/quad MR11 optics for MC-E :eekster:


I am sure someone will do it with the existing optics to see what it is like 
it would be easy to do :yesnod:, dont know about the liquid nitrogen tank though .

What is the science with optics , in this new device is the same size as the old xre 
have the optic makers just tweaked the design or is it the same ?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> What is the science with optics , in this new device is the same size as the old xre
> have the optic makers just tweaked the design or is it the same ?


I assumed they would be different but Welight(Cutter) posted that they would be testing old optics to see if they were ok.

The datasheets at cree show dome size etc so you could look it up.

It might be like the SSC/Cree optics that fit on each other but you really need the proper optic on the proper LED to get the best beam.

Also the individual optics in the MR11 are quite small(quad especially) so beam might show significant artifact(like the diff again between 26/20mm carlco). Rotating each MC-E a little should smooth things out.
I guess you could make a 40mm housing and put two 20mm optics side by side, should nicely fit a MR11 later. 
Be a fiddle wiring up 4 individual LEDs...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*mark 4 is born*

The decision has been made and a lump af aluminium attacked with a hacksaw and drill.



















I am going with a triple 20 mm optic setup with more metal in and I have offset the bottom led and optic like so 









when I tested the mk3 there was an area just in front of the bike with out light so I want to put a wide flood optic in the bottom .and experiment with the optics in the upper 2 lights.

I have no idea yet which way I am going to configure and drive this beast yet and it may be a full beam and dipped with the option to have all three on .


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*cool!*

you must have even more time to waste than me So how do you make the bar side. I saw your earlier post, but wanted more detail. Do you 1st drill the biggest hold you can (1" or so?), then mount it to your lathe and bore out to the correct inside diameter, and flip around and repeat to catch the side that was originally used to mount to the lathe?

thanks


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> you must have even more time to waste than me So how do you make the bar side. I saw your earlier post, but wanted more detail. Do you 1st drill the biggest hold you can (1" or so?), then mount it to your lathe and bore out to the correct inside diameter, and flip around and repeat to catch the side that was originally used to mount to the lathe?
> 
> thanks


You are correct in everything there re time it beats watching tv when it is raining and it rains alot here in the UK

yes I drilled upto 1 inch in steps then mounted to the lathe , oh for an independent 4 jaw chuck .
then when bored out and cut in half I have 2 lumps of ali to play with that will each fit on the bars.

then it is all hand work with drill / hack saw / files / and dremel .

the 20mm holes for the optics are done with a 20 mm drill bit ground flat on the end and then resharpened to drill the flat bottomed hole then some work with the dremel to smooth the hole bottom for the led star,


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Work in progress*

Work has slowed down for now for the best reason in the world
I have just returned from an offroad ride with my 18 year old daughter , we did 10 miles and the last time she rode a mtb was 7 years ago I am well     and she wants to get back into mountain biking :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

anyway back on track I have done a couple of hours with the mk4 and here are the results



















Not a lot difference from the last pics now it is down to filing to get to the shape I would like .

After reading the links that Fre3ud posted I am going with a beefier design and leaving lots more metal in the light . that is all for now Trout


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*File some grooves for more surface area*

Hey Troutie, why don't you use the point file you have, bottom right of the last pic, and file some grooves front to back along the light. If you file a groove 1mm deep, 1mm wide and have them spaced 1mm apart you will double the effective surface area of the light. File them 2mm deep and you triple it. Apart from increasing cooling area this also has the added advantage of reducing the weight of the housing. You clearly have the time


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*hand file grooves?*

I'd think they come out ghetto eh? That's what the mill is for...nice straight lines


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I might have the time but I am not that masochistic , I did think about it when it was rough milled but did not like the look with the grooves .

also the bottom led may only be a single Q5 as it is meant to flood the area just in front of the bike and I am not sure I want it to be too bright there and avoid any hotspot .

and with the testing I have done I think cooling will be ok with out grooves


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## searchtime (Jul 6, 2008)

A good tip when using a file on a soft material is to use (lots of) engineers chalk on the file to prevent "pickup" and then scaring on the next stroke. It also helps when trying to rid the file of particles with the wire brush. Just incase you didn't know.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ta searchtime good tip that.

Reading through the link to heatsinking again and spotted this

4.8. Black surfaces
Under natural convection conditions, the performance of a heatsink with a black surface will be 6% to 8% better than that with a plain or bright surface. However, this differential disappears under forced air conditions. 

As anodizing is expensive for a one off . 
so paint seems the next option , anyone know of a good matt black paint for aluminium.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Its is raining again in UK*

Raining again so a bit more filing on what is my most time consuming light build ever

here are a couple more pics as it takes shape .

I am thinking it is not as nice looking as the mark 2 and 3 but it is more a case of function over form .










what I am aiming for is a space for the wiring and switches on the light so have carved out a cavity in the top , I could if needed make this large enough for a Bflex to fit in .


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## formantjim (Feb 24, 2008)

I too have been doing some research into this matter of colour does it matter well yes it does and this link http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/coatbar.htm proves it once and for all!
This is using LED's we are all familiar with and I will be painting my modded TurboCat Aluminium fronts black with the paint recommended in this article. In fact on a slow night climb had the Fatman blink once or twice so this should help greatly.
Keep up the good work and does anyone know if Cutter are delivering the MCE's yet?


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie, I haven't looked at Formantjim's link but your local hardware should have some spray cans that will do the job. I have had success with matt black spray enamel, just make sure you use an etch primer first.

If you're worried about heat then you could always look at engine paint from an auto store. Just food for thought incase the specific paint mentioned is too expensive or not readily available.

As for fitting the bFlex into the light housing, brilliant as long as it doesn't get too hot.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

formantjim said:


> I too have been doing some research into this matter of colour does it matter well yes it does and this link http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/coatbar.htm proves it once and for all!
> This is using LED's we are all familiar with and I will be painting my modded TurboCat Aluminium fronts black with the paint recommended in this article. In fact on a slow night climb had the Fatman blink once or twice so this should help greatly.
> Keep up the good work and does anyone know if Cutter are delivering the MCE's yet?


:thumbsup: :thumbsup: Thank you very much formantjim that link is brilliant and you have posted it at just the right time when I am thinking how am I going to polish this complex shape .
the only bit I will polish is the clamp mating surface for better contact with the bars.

so now no more polishing as a finely scratched surface will be better for the paint to adhere to :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

there is no news yet on MCE`s being available yet :cryin:

I had an email from Mark (cutters) about 10 days ago and He had not got any samples yet for testing purposes.


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## Frs1661 (Jun 9, 2008)

formantjim said:


> I too have been doing some research into this matter of colour does it matter well yes it does and this link http://www.molalla.net/~leeper/coatbar.htm proves it once and for all!
> This is using LED's we are all familiar with and I will be painting my modded TurboCat Aluminium fronts black with the paint recommended in this article. In fact on a slow night climb had the Fatman blink once or twice so this should help greatly.
> Keep up the good work and does anyone know if Cutter are delivering the MCE's yet?


While I agree completely with his findings, static testing isn't super relevant to a bike light in most cases. I think you will find that the effect of radiative cooling (and the importance of the surface emissivity) will wash out once forced convection (airflow over the piece) becomes the dominant method of cooling.

So a high emissivity coating is good, but IMO it's not that important. If you like the look of a shiny piece of aluminum better then a matte black one I don't think this is a reason to paint it.

my $0.02


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## Mickey Blue (Mar 31, 2008)

oh no! I've reached the end of 8 pages! now i need to play the waiting game as well..

due to studying industrial design at uni i found this thread fascinating to read through, you guys are awesome! such a collaborative effort, well done!!! i was never that good at design but could definitely appreciate those with the goods (hence im in sales now), keep it up team!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Point taken thanks frs1661 , I did like shiny aluminium but it did not fit in with the black bars and stem so formantjims post was the one that tipped the scales and saved me some work .

also the time when the lights are most at risk of overheating is when stopped so if it gives me a little more time when I forget to dim the lights that has got to be a good thing.

so black it is 

















:incazzato:so come on cree get these dang MCE`s out to Cutters :incazzato: please


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Bloody hell Troutie, you really don't muck around.

Nice work!!


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## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

Hi troutie
Your output is prodigious.
I see you have built upwards rather than downwards for the mkIV.
Was there a reason for this?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

fre3ud said:


> Hi troutie
> Your output is prodigious.
> I see you have built upwards rather than downwards for the mkIV.
> Was there a reason for this?


MMM it is a bit sad really all this work on a bike light , and photographing it to put up on an internet forum , but what the hell I do this when it is raining and biking is unpleasent 
and it rains lots in england . 

The upward build is so I can get the third optic in underneath and also the shape of my bits of metal .
and a byproduct is a bit of space on top for the switches and easier wiring .

If the MCE`s had been instantly available then I would have built the mk2 bolted it to the bike and that would have been it done .

The mk6 is going to be a helmet light hopefully a bit different but again using the MCE


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Help and advise needed*

Now as I have upped the ante a bit and gone with 3 lights in one 
I now have some problems .
as I will have 12 emitters @ approx 3.5v -vf each which is my best way to drive them.

This is how I see it and my options are 
I have 15 volt li ion 2.4mah batteries or
18 v li ion 3000mah drill batteries to choose from . 
as my original plan was for a double MCE light then I also had 2 bflex drivers set up to work as a master and slave from 1 of my 18 volt batteries .

but now the plan is for a ridiculous triple mce light so how do I drive it or them to there full potential with the stuff I have available .

here are my options as I see it .

1/ drive the 12 emitters at 600ma in 2 paralell strings from 1 maxflex and a 15 v battery.

2 /drive 2 lots of 6 emitters from 2 maxflex at what ever I want or dare

3 / carry on with plan 1 and the 2 bflex as master and slave , plus another driver for the third MCE = more expence.

4 some other option or method , I am open to suggestions

I was going to use the bottom light as a single led road running light but went power crazy and decided to put a third MCE in there

so from what you know so far which would be the prefered method of powering this set up.


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## formantjim (Feb 24, 2008)

Hi Troutie I came across this and thought you might like to know that someone else has a similar idea also from the UK!
http://www.use1.com/exposure/products/exposure_cannondale_oem/index.php


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

formantjim said:


> Hi Troutie I came across this and thought you might like to know that someone else has a similar idea also from the UK!
> http://www.use1.com/exposure/products/exposure_cannondale_oem/index.php


Cheers formantjim I had heard that exposure had done something like this this is the first time I have seen it , I think Dweeby mentions it at the beginning of this thread also .

from the specs I can find -

HeadSIght Specifications
1 X 3W Luxeon SLED (SuperLED)
Battery - 3.7V 1620mAh Lithium-Ion
Output* - Up to 90 Lumens
Burn Time* - High: 2hrs Low: 7 hrs Flash: Days
Charge time* - Approximately 5hrs
Charger - Input:100-240VAC, 50-60Hz 0.6A Output:6V, 3A
Optimum Operating Temperature Range: -10C - + 40C
*Burn times, charge times and brightness may vary depending on battery's age, condition and environment.

Not quite in the same spec as our 2300 lumen bike light. if it works.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Whoo Whoo It Is Getting Closer*

I see a pic has appeared on the Cutters site showing the boards with a MCE on :thumbsup:










Lets hope shipping commences soon


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Driver decision made*

The decision for driving the beasty has been decided by my CFO 

So I am powering it with the Maxflex and 2 strings of 6 because I have a spare Maxflex and dont need to buy anything else .

I found a piece of copper pipe that is a nice snug fit in my stem so with another piece soldered inside it should be a good heatsink for the maxflex.



















A bit of wiring and I am ready for the leds


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

............


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Good evening Mr. Trout  .... looking good!
so you`ll be running on the 18v pack i take it?
the 15v will be pushing too much current, and its a paltry 2.4ah
thanks for the tantalizing pic, mmmmm dont them MCE look tasty


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Good evening Mr. Trout  .... looking good!
> so you`ll be running on the 18v pack i take it?
> the 15v will be pushing too much current, and its a paltry 2.4ah
> thanks for the tantalizing pic, mmmmm dont them MCE look tasty


Hi Hendo
yep they do look good / look a lot better in my light

Please explain to about the 15 v / 18 v .I know the 2.4 ah
but this pushing too much current


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

lower input voltage = more current/ lower efficiency/ more heat
higher voltage= lower input current/better efficiency/ less heat

.... what you reckon the total Vf for 6 die at 600ma ???


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*huh?*

The maxflex driver is a current regulator. I'm pretty sure the voltage drop across the led is the same at 600ma vs 1000ma.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> lower input voltage = more current/ lower efficiency/ more heat
> higher voltage= lower input current/better efficiency/ less heat
> 
> .... what you reckon the total Vf for 6 die at 600ma ???


Ah yes I am with you it is not working as hard from the 18 v battery.

I think from the info available that each die is approx 3.5 v at 700ma
times 6 about 21 v 
the 18 v battery fully charged is about 21 v would this be a problem for the maxflex 
Or do I qive it a spin in the drill and drop it to 20 v.


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

6 x 3.2Vf = 20v or thereabouts (output volts required) @ 600ma
so 15v battery?? with a voltage drop when they`re all running then maybe 13v?
so 13v in to get 20v out, the difference is too great for the best efficiency


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*maxflex*

the maxflex 2 says it only can accept up to 20v and drive up to 24v. So if your 18v battery fully charged is 21v, you may have a problem. You may be able to hack around this by sticking a 5mm led on the input side to bring the voltage down. But remember, when using a boost driver, your input voltage must be lower than your output.
To calculate what the maxflex can handle (from the maxflex tech doc):
Step 1: Determine output power

Power_output = Number_of_LEDS * Vf * Output_current

Step 2: Determine input power

Power_input = Power_output/efficiency

For calculation purposes we can assume efficiency will be around 88%

Step 3: Determine input current

Input_current = Power_input / Battery_voltage

So:

((3.5 * 6 * .7) / .88) / your battery voltage

an 18v battery (ignoring fully charged value) would be .93A
15v batt would be around 1.11A
...either well below the 3A max of the maxflex. In fact, George (maxflex) measured this:

Input Volts Input Amps # of LEDs Output Volts Output Amps Efficiency 
14.3 1.84 6  23.2 1038mA 91%


----------



## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

5 mm led isn't a good idea, a big flash and then it's over. A diode would do the job, but it's a waist of energy. 

Maybe the Shark driver can help you out?


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

he`s trying to utilize the drivers/batteries he has on hand
to save unnecessary further expense
but as George Taskled once said ..
... "some combinations of batteries/drivers/leds were never meant to be"
i reckon the ideal input voltage is 17v with no sag :thumbsup:


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> 6 x 3.2Vf = 20v or thereabouts (output volts required) @ 600ma
> so 15v battery?? with a voltage drop when they`re all running then maybe 13v?
> so 13v in to get 20v out, the difference is too great for the best efficiency


The driver efficiency is over 90% according to taskled. You're taking 2A from the battery which is the issue... but thats on high (2000lm) which I hope is only a small amount of the time... usually running a third this maybe??? 700mA from the battery should be fine.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Hey Timmo  
in your link see *"Some Efficiency Measurements"*
you`ll notice in the table that the higher input voltages in all cases are more efficient
which leads to less heat

ol` troutie was on about running 6 series 2 parallel at 600ma(1.2a)
so the output would have to be 20v @1.2A
the driver efficiency is never constant
as the input voltage falls, more current is called for
to keep the input *current* low, the input *voltage* should be as near as poss. to the output voltage
on small capacity battery packs, voltage sag could becomes an issue
he may get away with 6 series 2 parallel at 350ma (19.2v @700ma output) on the smaller 15v battery
........ Troutie, .....get a bFlex_V2B(input upto 25v / output upto 24v / ) and a 6 cell li-ion pack  :thumbsup:sorted!!!


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Hey Timmo
> in your link see *"Some Efficiency Measurements"*
> you`ll notice in the table that the higher input voltages in all cases are more efficient
> which leads to less heat


The driver efficiency goes from 91% at 14.3V to 90% at 12V input. These are pretty good numbers. I dunno what bflex will be (its quoted as >85%).
I was thinking the battery efficiency at higher currents would be more significant than the driver efficiency differences anyways. Bflex wins here. The main problem is perhaps the CFO so getting a system up and running with whats lying around is a good idea. 

BTW troutie seen Cree XPE? 4mm sq. :eekster:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> BTW troutie seen Cree XPE? 4mm sq.


I have just seen it now thanks for the link , and now I will forget I have seen it and visit the hypnotist to make sure I forget.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:crazy: all these numbers it is enough to send someone mad:crazy:

:madman: It seems which ever route I follow there is a downside to it:madman: 

 I had it sorted with the 2 Bflex wired master and slave for the double :idea: then changed my mind for a triple 
so wondered about getting another bflex but then to order just one seems stupid so maybe a couple of spare ones  But :arf: CFO is a bit :madmax: and says :nono: 

I am left :cryin: and  and decide to use my maxflex so everyone is  including the CFO:arf::thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Started the helmet light*

I cannot progress any further with the stem light so have started on the helmet light .
I am not sure what configuration this is going to be , but it is not going to be 4 MCEs

I may be 1 mce and 2 Q5s or 2 mce 
or an insane 4 mce barlight Who knows at this early stage when things change with the weather in the trout workshop.




























If you count each side of each fin then each optic has about 20 sq inches of surface area 
so hopefully will be plenty of cooling


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Do you ever stop troutie! :crazy: 
mind you i'd be the same if i had a lathe 

looking good already by the way


----------



## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

These builds are awesome Trout! I think I'm going to use your stem-mount idea for my next dynamo light so I can stuff all the capacitors & diodes inside the stem.

BTW, I think a 18V Li-Ion might be dangerous to the maxflex, but your 15V battery will work just fine! I'm been running my big light with 2 strings of 6 XR-Es from a maxflex and a old 13.2v 4000mAh NiMH battery for a while now. Even with the low input voltage and old saggy NiMHs the light runs great at the 1.2A setting. The driver might be less efficient at full blast, but I end up using level 2 or 3 (out of 5) most of the time anyway. 

Stevel


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Stevel what run time do you get with that setup and do you think 2 strings of 6 with a maxflex would work ok with a 14.8v li-on battery?


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie, looks terrific again.

What did you use to cut the fins, looks to narrow to have been a drop saw of any kind?


----------



## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

I've been getting between 5 and 6 hours on a charge, but like I said I spend most of my time in the lower settings. The trails we have in Florida don't let you get going fast enough to really use full power. If I'm on the road I pretty much stay on the lowest setting so I don't piss off other road users.

14.8V Li-Ion is perfect, I'll replace this crap battery pack I have now with exactly that when the time comes. (Unless someone develops a dynamo hub for 20mm thru axle forks, then I'll never buy another battery pack again!)


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have just seen it now thanks for the link , and now I will forget I have seen it and visit the hypnotist to make sure I forget.


You probably dont want to look here either then. :nono: :nono: :nono: :crazy: :ciappa: :ihih: :arf:

I am just a wee bit excited.      :cornut:


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Znomit you are a cruel cruel man.:nono: 

How good does that oval beam shot look though. So much more even than the early ones for the XR-E's, and such a tiny form as well:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Znomit you are a cruel cruel man.:nono:
> 
> How good does that oval beam shot look though. So much more even than the early ones for the XR-E's, and such a tiny form as well:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Nice huh?
The 10deg frosted might well be my next road light.

Troutie I think you can fit six or eight of these on your stem. :thumbsup:

StevelKnivel you big light is now looking really big.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

smudgemtbuk said:


> Do you ever stop troutie! :crazy:
> mind you i'd be the same if i had a lathe
> 
> looking good already by the way


:lol: It gets worse I have been very lucky and have had donated some nice bits of aluminium so I just study it for a while and an idea pops in to my head.
so it doesnt even get drawn on paper most times I just start cutting and drilling and a housing evolves .

My brother has just collected an old lathe that has been given to me by the widow of the previous owner and will deliver it to me on saturday , so it is goodbye crappy chinese minilathe .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> These builds are awesome Trout! I think I'm going to use your stem-mount idea for my next dynamo light so I can stuff all the capacitors & diodes inside the stem.
> 
> BTW, I think a 18V Li-Ion might be dangerous to the maxflex, but your 15V battery will work just fine! I'm been running my big light with 2 strings of 6 XR-Es from a maxflex and a old 13.2v 4000mAh NiMH battery for a while now. Even with the low input voltage and old saggy NiMHs the light runs great at the 1.2A setting. The driver might be less efficient at full blast, but I end up using level 2 or 3 (out of 5) most of the time anyway.
> 
> Stevel


That will be good to see as you are allready a master at stuffing lots into a small space.

Great news that your 12 led light is still going strong after all this time I seem to remember there where some sceptics when you built it:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie, looks terrific again.
> 
> What did you use to cut the fins, looks to narrow to have been a drop saw of any kind?


I could say just an arm powered hacksaw :nono: :nono:

but would be lieing

I am using a metal cutting bandsaw donated by my very kind brother 
they are still a bit wonky as it is all done by hand as no guide rails on the saw
but should work well


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup:


znomit said:


> Nice huh?
> The 10deg frosted might well be my next road light.
> 
> Troutie I think you can fit six or eight of these on your stem. :thumbsup:
> ...


:yikes: SYSTEM OVERLOAD :yikes:BRAIN JUST EXPLODED:yikes:

:crazy: there are going to be some truly amazing light builds happening this winter :crazy:

I wonder how many light manufacturers check out these forums to see the cutting edge of bike lights .

:nono: and you Znomit are a truly naughty man trying to plant ideas :crazy: :thumbsup: :ciappa:


----------



## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Great news that your 12 led light is still going strong after all this time I seem to remember there where some sceptics when you built it:thumbsup: :thumbsup:


Thanks! The light's working fine but I pretty much stopped posting my builds after that crap. Don't care much for arguing on the internet...:madman:

I agree that there will be some crazy builds this year!

I can see it now...

2 strings of 6 MC-Es (all 4 dies in parallel), each string fed from its own bFlex running in master/slave mode @ 1A...each die sees ~250mA so ~3.1vf , each emitter puts out ~320 lumen...320 lm x 12 = 3840 lumen from around 40 Watts...

Maybe the admins could start an official MTBR brightest (craziest) light build thread/contest to encourage some friendly competition! I love seeing the limits get pushed by creative individuals! Bring on the MC-Es!!!


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> Maybe the admins could start an official MTBR brightest (craziest) light build thread/contest to encourage some friendly competition! I love seeing the limits get pushed by creative individuals! Bring on the MC-Es!!!


StevelKnivel I found the trolls harassing you quite hilarious. The big light rocks.
Just like the crazy trolls, most of my crazy lights aren't so bright. Every now and again I get lucky though. Troutie must have a rabbits foot or something cause he hits the jackpot every time.

Yeah we are going to see some cool MCE builds. Time to flick off our old XRE lights


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*a new toy to play with*

Here it is my new ( very old ) free lathe has arrived so I have some thing
to do while waiting for the MCE leds to arrive 
it should take a while to check it out and get it working

 here is the little piece of engineering history :thumbsup:










I suppose it is not off topic as it will be used to make bike lights .

 I am well chuffed


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Unreal... You got that for free?!! Sweet!


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

my god troutie, hope youre wiring is better on youre lights than the spaghetti on the wall ... no wonder youve asked for extra wire  
neat lathe though, bet it has some amazing history behind it.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

eeehhh they dont make em like they used to eh! ... looks to be in good nick .... [guess mode on] ..Boxford Mk * under drive with screw cutting gearbox and power cross feed + cabinet stand 
http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/page10.html


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> eeehhh they dont make em like they used to eh! ... looks to be in good nick .... [guess mode on] ..Boxford Mk * under drive with screw cutting gearbox and power cross feed + cabinet stand
> http://www.lathes.co.uk/boxford/page10.html


Hendo it is in good nick just a little surface rust and dirt 
no wear evedent yet 
  It is a Smart and Brown Sable .
http://www.lathes.co.uk/smartbrown/page4.html

I have just put it back together and oiled everything and it works like a good un .:thumbsup:

But no tool post so no flying swarfe yet :sad:

I need fo find some good cutting tools too .


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Nice find:thumbsup: 

Commercial production runs here we come


----------



## Pitto (Sep 26, 2005)

OLD = GOOD

the old machines are the best, they were made to last years ago, unlike the disposable society we've become.  

shall be interesting to see what comes out of this machine now.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu69 I have a lot to learn before full scale production runs  


:thumbsup: pitto I couldnt agree more with you the build quality is fantastic:thumbsup: 

Now I am very frustrated as I have the stem light waiting for the MCEs to be released
so it can be finished.

and my new lathe unusable untill I find a tool post and tools :madman: 

But cant complain it was for free


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: Very happy now got a toolpost and fitted it so here is the second cut with it 
sorry if I am boring you all with my posts .:thumbsup:










I am amazed at how accurate it is compared to the minilathe

 trout


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> emu69 I have a lot to learn before full scale production runs


Not that far away judging by the looks of that last photo:thumbsup:


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

mmmmm get a load o that big curly swarf ! ..... :thumbsup: 
boring us,?.... nah!!, 10,000+ views n 240+ posts says this thread rocks

anyway you heard owt from Mark/Cutters ??


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> mmmmm get a load o that big curly swarf ! ..... :thumbsup:
> boring us,?.... nah!!, 10,000+ views n 240+ posts says this thread rocks
> 
> anyway you heard owt from Mark/Cutters ??


Great pic and only taken on my phone camera which does have 2 leds for the flash . and that big curly swarfe is a 1000 of inch big .

No news yet on the MCEs but it is only early august 
Pretty please Mark any news :ihih:

Anyone from UK want a clarke minilathe for half price pm me

:incazzato:Need to make something now:incazzato:


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Anyone from UK want a clarke minilathe for half price pm me


Dont tempt me troutie :madman: :lol: that would be a quick route to divorce for me !

mrs smudge hardly see's me as it is with the time I spend building batteries and going biking.

how much you looking at? :lol:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:lol: Ha Ha did not expect a quick response could even do a swap for some batteries / chargers:ihih:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

You all have not had any pics to look at for a few days so here goes on what started out as going to be a helmet double MCE , some early pics back in the thread


























so it could by cut in half and make 2 helmet lights ?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

i vote 4 MC-E bar light
.... what happened to the ruler you normally have in every pic?
it looks a bit bare without it  
and you may need to edit out the phone no.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> i vote 4 MC-E bar light
> .... what happened to the ruler you normally have in every pic?
> it looks a bit bare without it
> and you may need to edit out the phone no.


Yes I also vote for a 4 MCE bar light but I do not have the spare :arf:$£ for the extra leds.

 You are right HHIHendo I have let standards slip just lately must be the new lathe

:ciappa:



:smilewinkgrin:


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

ahhh :thumbsup: so much more info going on there ...
well you could chop it in half and have a cube or/and
do 2 now and 2 later when your lotto numbers come up


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Troutie, any news on youre led's yet?:bluefrown: 
out of interest how long did that quad take to make to the stage its at now


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Actually mate not much more help there with those rulers, why don't you ever start them at the end of a light instead of part way across the first led?  You trying to fool us into thinking its smaller than it actually is 

Ok all jokes aside that looks heaps neater. Have you tidied up the fins somehow or is just rounding off the edges that makes it all look tidier? Your production rate is prodigious, pity you're being delayed by others.

Why don't you cut it in half and have two on the helmet and two on the bars, oh hang on, you already have something for the bars don't you:eekster: :eekster:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Actually mate not much more help there with those rulers, why don't you ever start them at the end of a light instead of part way across the first led?  You trying to fool us into thinking its smaller than it actually is :eekster: :eekster:


The rulers are at the end it is the camera angle that makes it look it isnt

I am not going to cut it yet , I will wait untill the stem light is up and working .
this one was just an experiment with an offcut while waiting and also to use for experimental heat sinking .
 it is for sale if anyone wants to finish it and have a 2000 plus lumen bar light

rounded it off and spent a bit of time with a tiny file on the fins

Smudge there is about 8 hours in it at the moment


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

What ever happened to Dweeby's light? 

We saw the start of it in his "outdoor workshop" but haven't heard anything more since.... How goes it Dweeby? 

GIve some hope to us mortals who are sans lathe and bandsaw


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Is this the driver for multiple MCE`s*

I have just been browsing around on Cutters and noticed this one 
http://www.leddynamics.com/LuxDrive/datasheets/4015-BoostPuck.pdf

I never noticed it before , is it quite new.

I may be wrong but on my limited =0 knowledge will this drive 3 mce with all leds in series

it seems to have a wide input / output range

it is up there in the expensive range $34.55


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Ogling of the boostpuck


Yeah I was looking at that one last week, trying to find the evidently non existent high current model....only 350mA. Booooo. 
Maxflex will drive 12 LEDs(2 strings of 6) at 600mA.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Yeah I was looking at that one last week, trying to find the evidently non existent high current model....only 350mA. Booooo.
> Maxflex will drive 12 LEDs(2 strings of 6) at 600mA.


All this waiting around going round in circles looking at drivers and it always seems to come back to M/B flex George has sewn up the top end driver market for sure.


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> George has sewn up the top end driver market for sure.


Yeah, If only the maxflex would handle 30v out instead of 24 we could run 4 MC-E at 600mA ... 2500lm!!!

Wonder if you can parallel up the boostpucks to get 700mA....


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

http://www.taskled.com/cchipo.html
come on guys!!!
.why, not the cchipo?????


----------



## super-fast (Sep 28, 2006)

Because the Cchipo is far to big for a bike light.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

doesn`t need to be `in` the bike light does it eh....


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

George(taskled) suggested the cchipo to me a few weeks ago when I asked him some questions.

It would be nice to be able to push these 3 mce at there max so where would you put the cchipo and how much heat does it need to lose . do I need to get and butcher one of those
expensive aluminium water bottles to hold my battery and the cchipo

and setting it up looks a bit of a pain is it just on or off or can it be dimmed.


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

....


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Oh B****er more waiting around*

 :nonod::cryin::sad::madman: 
just read this over on CPF

Re: MC-E wiring from Cutter?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexLite

Thanks Mark,any idea on delivery time?

Michael

Cree have our orders acknowledged for late September/early Oct. Not long now
__________________
Cheers
WeLight

:incazzato: not long thats a blooming eternity :madman: all these empty light housings around , doom and gloom abound :sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:

Oh and :sad:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*MMM I wonder how much it will cost*



znomit said:


> Yeah I was looking at that one last week, trying to find the evidently non existent high current model....only 350mA. Booooo.
> Maxflex will drive 12 LEDs(2 strings of 6) at 600mA.


I emailed Leddynamics a few days ago this is what they said

Hello,
To answer your first question, the boostpucks cannot be set up in a parallel configuration.
To answer your second question, we do not typically make 700mA boostpucks. However, we can make it as a specialty item. To inquire about that, please contact our sales team ([email protected]), or call us at (802)728-4533.
Thanks!

Matt Wilson
Production Engineer
LEDdynamics, Inc.
(802)728-4533

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: "Chris Hadaway" <[email protected]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, August 18, 2008 5:42:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: boostpuck 4015 question

Hi 
I have 2 questions about the boostpuck 4015 driver

I see it is rated at 350ma is it possible to parallel it with another boostpuck 4015 to double the drive current to 700ma

also do you have any plans for a higher current boostpuck in the near future.with the onset of the multi emitter devices.

Thank you 
chris hadaway

I wonder what it would cost to have a few made or maybe if lots of us mail them they may put them into production


----------



## scar (Jun 2, 2005)

troutie-mtb - Your design is looking awesome. Can't wait to see it finished. I also couldn't help but think of you when I saw this stem. It would look pretty cool with a couple of MC-E's for eyes - http://www.dirtydogmtb.com/reaperstem.htm


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Whoa Scar that is ace :thumbsup:










I dont know how maybe make some special bolts with a polymer optic and the even newer extra small leds, or even no optic just the XP-E led set into the bolt awesome .

and look at all that extra ali to use for heatsinking

I cant wait either I will probably be on the mark 10 by october if no MCE turn up


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Wiring the MCE*

Due to the extra thinking time on this build I was wondering about which would be best

As it is going to be 2 strings of 6 emitters each how would you split it .

1 4 from 1 mce and 2 from the third .

2 2 from each mce

saw this over at CPF so it seems the emitters are quite well ballanced

Originally Posted by McGizmo 
By the way, I did measure two sample MC-E's on my bench supply set at 350 mA and all of the dice (8 total) measured 3.1 V. Pretty balanced there, at least during my quick and rough bench test.


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Looking at the cutter stars I guess configure each star in 2s2p and connect all three together in series. Should be the easiest to wire up. 
If they end up doing 2s2p stars that would rock.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Looking at the cutter stars I guess configure each star in 2s2p and connect all three together in series. Should be the easiest to wire up.
> If they end up doing 2s2p stars that would rock.


cheers znomit 
any chance of a diagram to show how that would work 
I cant seem to picture that one


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm glad someone asked


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Ok been for a ride and done some thinking in laymans terms is this some where near
how it should be wired


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

eyup Troutie, just remind us again what drivers you have (input/output voltage, buck/boost)
and what battery packs
and their voltage hot off the charger
6 in series is 20v+ ...


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> eyup Troutie, just remind us again what drivers you have (input/output voltage, buck/boost)
> and what battery packs
> and their voltage hot off the charger
> 6 in series is 20v+ ...


Max flex 
choice of 14.8 Li Ion /approx 16.8v off the charger
or 18 makita Li Ion / approx 21 v off the charger


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

*MaxFlex2:
"Operates from 2.5V to 20V (input voltage). Being a boost converter, input voltage must be less than output voltage."*
so delete the makita battery out of the equasion


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Due to the extra thinking time on this build I was wondering about which would be best
> 
> *----> As it is going to be 2 strings of 6 emitters each how would you split it .*
> 
> ...


2 from each ...... also would be better if you decided to switch it
.......... off / on
........one maxflex on
..... both maxflex on


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> 2 from each ...... also would be better if you decided to switch it
> .......... off / on
> ........one maxflex on
> ..... both maxflex on


Isn't the idea that he has one maxflex driving two parallel strings of 6 series connected leds? Atleast that's what I understood but hey, I'm a stay at home Mr Mom so electronics isn't my strongest point, but damn I can cook


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Isn't the idea that he has one maxflex driving two parallel strings of 6 series connected leds? Atleast that's what I understood but hey, I'm a stay at home Mr Mom so electronics isn't my strongest point, but damn I can cook


Yeah, thats what makes the maxflex the driver of choice here. Dunno about the 21v battery... how critical is that extra volt....?

But, the boost coverter always boosts so with battery at 21v in the LEDs will be going full noise(minus battery droop under load) even when stopped. :incazzato: :madmax: :incazzato:
Solution...add another LED! An extra R2 per string takes you up to 24.5V max, should be ok but we are pushing the limits here.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Yeah, thats what makes the maxflex the driver of choice here. Dunno about the 21v battery... how critical is that extra volt....?
> 
> But, the boost coverter always boosts so with battery at 21v in the LEDs will be going full noise(minus battery droop under load) even when stopped. :incazzato: :madmax: :incazzato:
> Solution...add another LED! An extra R2 per string takes you up to 24.5V max, should be ok but we are pushing the limits here.


Yes that was the general idea for the maxflex ,
the 18 v drill battery does not stay at 21 v very long a quick spin in the drill and it is down to under 20 v

Nice idea the extra leds but where the hell do I put them , I think I will stick on 12 emitters.

:sad: I am a bit sad The mce wont be available untill late sept early oct 
it would have been nice to have this light for my week biking holiday in Germany in 3 weeks time:sad:


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

just mill up another one and fit 12 R2's. You'll get more light that way as well:eekster:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Now theres interesting reading this from the other stem light thread



StevelKnivel said:


> Based on what I've seen with the optical results with the MC-E, I think that using two R2s as the spot and an MC-E for flood would be easier than the other way around. I think it's going to take a pretty deep/big reflector to focus the 4 dies of the MC-E into a good spot beam while the XR-Es can be focused with a pretty small optic. Two R2s focused down the road with four other dies providing fill should still throw a good distance.


Now then that is just the opposite of what I was thinking for my stem light
Because of all this thinking time untill they are dispatched I was mulling over how best to go with this light 
one option was 2 mce in the top holes and a single Q5 or R2 in the bottom hole 
the bottom hole is angled a bit downwards so that was going to be a wide or eliptical 
optic.

but now reading what you have put it sounds sensible to have the mce as the flood in the bottom hole and 2 singles in the 2 top holes 
this would free up 2 mces to make other lights

BUT would that be boring :yesnod:and far removed from the original concept of having 3 MCE in a single light


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

As much as I hate to say it 2 MC-E and a single R2 won't work, your strings won't be balanced.:sad: 

The only options you have are one MC E and 2 R2's or three MC-E's. Personally, anything less than three MC-E's is just wasting that heatsink you have spent thousands building, your bike


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

I hate to do this to you troutie .. but IF you wanted to steer your beams independently in your light head you could use these:










and mount them in like so:










The idea would be for them to protrude from the face of the stem and then have a plate that fits on to keep them in place and to tighten to lock them into the positions that you want. I think they could sit in a cylindrical hole, but it would mean less contact with the heat sink (thermal grease could be used to help with this). A spherical cavity would be better if your lathing skills are up to it. The lug on the back of the ball could fit into a circular hole/depression at the back which would limit the range of movement and make sure the wiring didn't get sheared off (the wiring coming out through the lug bit).

Like I said before. Sorry to suggest this, but it is too cool not to.

Ultimately of course you'd want to pop some in the reaper's eye sockets ...


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Interesting ideas there glowinthedark 
but a bit advanced for my lathe skills I think.

Nice little containers would like to see one in the flesh.


No question Emu26 it is going to be 3 mces , it has to be now


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Anodising costs*

Anyone any idea of the cost to have a single light anodised
as iI have just been quoted £ 0.50 per small item , this seems very cheap but welcome


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*The MK ????? version*

Well they say the devil makes work for idle hands and mine have been idle too long
so the MK oh sod it I dont know the number now has been born .

I have been busy making light housings for folk in the UK



















for a few weeks now while waiting for the cutting edge stuff to arrive from Cutters
and I do dislike waiting , so here is the first pics of the next incarnation of the stem light as I got bored looking at the last lightless one , and I did like the concept of the adjustable design .

:drumroll:




























It is in the early stages and will be black anodised I hope .

still going to be 3 MCE but it started out as 4 but I chickened out and went back to 3


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

*MC-E - here*

http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=5375

Probably just a bare MC-E and no star board and I kind of doubt they already have the claimed K bin.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

*Wtf?*



bikerjay said:


> http://www.kaidomain.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductId=5375
> 
> Probably just a bare MC-E and no star board and I kind of doubt they already have the claimed K bin.


"Max current 700ma per die, or 2800mA when wired in series"

Don't they mean or "wired in parrallel"


----------



## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Yes they should have put "2800ma when wired in parrallel"

And it looks like they are only selling the 30 samples they are going to receive in october.
And then it's a pre-order thing.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers for the pointer 
I have waited this long so will stick it out till Cutters have some 
Then I know I have the real thing


----------



## bwilli (Apr 3, 2006)

*Nice clamp!*

Hi Troutie.

Where did you get that GREAT clamp?

I'm doing a build and am struggling with how to fabricate a nice quick release adjustable clamp...

Thanks!


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

bwilli said:


> Hi Troutie.
> 
> Where did you get that GREAT clamp?
> 
> ...


It's a LumiCycle. £7 for standard, £8 for OS bars.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bwilli said:


> Hi Troutie.
> 
> Where did you get that GREAT clamp?
> 
> ...


Yep they are really good mounts from lumicycle as Harpoon says


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Ready for anodising*

Here she is now almost ready to go to the anodisers on tuesday .




























This is the one ,I have been not sure about posting it untill it had lumens but could not wait so when it returns from the anodisers my MCE will be nearly here then it will live .
Still not 100% sure on driving it yet though


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*she is ready and waiting*

I have just collected my lights from the anodisers and now we are ready to :band: rock and roll




























I am really pleased how they came out and he does lots more funky colours too .

Hopefully Mark and co will be lovingly wrapping my MCEs this weekend ready for the carrier pidgeon to drop them at my house.


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Those are looking good mate,
I think I'm gonna be going for 3 MCE's in my headlight...may need to pick your brains if you don't mind 
Do you have any details for the dimensions of the MCE's and suitable optics? If I can get the housing ready, I'll get on an order somew bits...Also, how are you going to drive/dim yours?
Those lumicycle mount looks pewrfect for my housing too :thumbsup: 
Here's my housing:


----------



## Harpoon (Jun 5, 2008)

Love the colour of the bigger housing - thinks I'll be asking for that for my next order


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup:


Harpoon said:


> Love the colour of the bigger housing - thinks I'll be asking for that for my next order


Ah ha harpoon your Chris doh I just read your blog nice housing you got there 
I take it you will be wanting another one some time soon and a cool colour :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Ready for leds and optics*

 Leds and optics shipped earlier this week 

So I thought I better get the host ready to receive them 
I had a change of plan yet again after the failure of the switch in my ahead cap
so decided to put the switch in a small abs box underneath.

So I took a gamble on the angle to set the head going off the prototype and its beamshots .
which is for sale with optics and leds installed but no driver.

here is the light showing the fixings and installed with thermal paste ready









Next showing the Maxflex inside come copper pipe which is a nice snug fit inside the stem and the small box for the wiring and power socket / mom switch . nice and out of the way from crashes.


















Then on the bike with some old optics in for effect


































I will explain the black paint .
When I collected the lights from the anodisers some parts were spotty and it turns out that the really strong aluminium has other metals in and dont anodise well but the softer piece I made the head from took it really well . 
So I painted the spotty bits with black matt paint which has rubbed off when I was cleaning the thermal paste off so I will have to redo the matt black

Now A bit more waiting for the postie and the Trout Light should live .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Yee Ha*

:drumroll:

:band:

Post man has been


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

O-oh!!! You're gonna be busy now :thumbsup:


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

:bluefrown: no beam shots yet troutie :skep: 
Dont forgot youre hat and 3 bins when you go out, you may need a few more bins if its going to be bright 

he's been like a kid waiting for christmas, even had texts from him all day


----------



## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*don't be in too much of a hurry...*



smudgemtbuk said:


> :bluefrown: no beam shots yet troutie :skep:
> Dont forgot youre hat and 3 bins when you go out, you may need a few more bins if its going to be bright
> 
> he's been like a kid waiting for christmas, even had texts from him all day


I'm wondering what his lights will look like too. I'm hoping he doesn't fat-finger something and end up with a "poof" of smoke/driver/batteries...

I also think he cursed New Mexico with the plague of rain. My after-work ride is a bust.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*my god they get hot fast*

:thumbsup: Well I cant wait till they come on stars preconfigured .
optics with holders need modifying cos they foul on the solderpads

got 1 wired and working 2 to go .
it only flashed for the Bflex startup time and was bloody hot after .
now I cant see to do the others


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

forgot the waffle troutie cut to the beam shot

BUT think twice before connecting one of youre many batteries  

*I know what you did last night* :madman:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:thumbsup: 2 down 1 to go:thumbsup:


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

this is worse than waiting for the final episode of 24 and seeing if jack bauer saved the world or not


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Yabba Dabba Doo*

:band: :rockon: :drumroll: Thats it all three fitted and working :thumbsup: next on to the optics :madman:

Some stats for the boffins out there 
11.1 li ion battery
mce 6s2p wired
max flex set on 350ma VF high - 17.29v low 16.37
set on 750ma VF high - 18.0 v low 16.69
set on 1200ma VF high - 18.60v low 16.96

dont know what this all means yet hoping someone out there will say


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> :band: :rockon: :drumroll:
> dont know what this all means yet hoping someone out there will say


Dunno what that means either, but it sure sounds imressive


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Well tonight has been an interesting one a bit of a rollercoaster and here`s why.

packet arrived from cutters this morning

then see posts below
so straight in to my garage when finished work and lets begin .
so i start to wire the first mce up 2s2p and wondering if I am doing it right , I am going off a picture from CPF I found a few days ago .
so I get the first one done and think will it work so I connect the wires to the tails from my Maxflex and plug in my 11.1 li ion battery lots of flashing so i think Great the is the maxflex starting up , then the light goes out , fine that is normal so press the button to switch on and nothing . unplug the power and replug flashing then out and click nothing 
touch the mcpcb and ouch bloody hot and it has only flashed a few times .

Then I start to think and :idea: the numbers dont add up 11.li ion fresh off the charger = 12.something .
maxflex = boost driver .
4 leds @3.5 = 14 v ok then :madman: it is 2s2p not 4s Oh s**t what have I done nearly start:cryin: and hope I have not cooked my first MCE .

so carry on and wire the next up and fit it to my light and see what happens this should be ok I think because It will be 4s2p now so every think should be good plug in and lots of flashing and off click the button they come on :thumbsup: click again to switch to the next level and nothing seemed to happen just a small decrease in light .this seemed strange and I am fearing something is not right.

then on to the third this one is much quicker after the practise ones . and I end up with this










lets have another test so twist the wires together and :band: it all works as it should 
and I cant see for a few minutes . dont look at MCEs when switching on

Next on to the optics Easy just slot them in :madman:
No because they are in holders and the solder pads now have wires fitted to them so interfearing with where the sit , time for the Dremel to taylor the damn things to fit .

eventually I managed to fit 3 optics in and straight in to the garden to see what they will be like .

so here are the first Trout stem light beam shots 
as per MTBR camera settings 
but my garden is very small 12 metres to the far corner and 6 metres to the plant

5 pics all on the high setting starting off with the Maxflex at 1200 ma and reducing to 350 ma










































And the shots on the low setting for each of the above
starting at 1200ma and reducing


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> Dunno what that means either, but it sure sounds imressive


Hootsmon that was just me being very happy that I had not screwed anything up 
YET


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

that is bright   
bet the snail on the tub isnt too impressed :eekster: 

Are you out on the moors now troutie? go on you now you want too, 

Airbike> who wants an airbikelight when you can have one of these 
wel done dude:thumbsup:


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Troutie, are you sure the 500w pir floodlight wasn`t on when you took them pics eh?? 
............. wow, very impressive !!  :thumbsup:


----------



## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Question on wiring...*



troutie-mtb said:


> packet arrived from cutters this morning
> 
> then see posts below
> so straight in to my garage when finished work and lets begin .
> so i start to wire the first mce up 2s2p and wondering if I am doing it right , I am going off a picture from CPF I found a few days ago .


when you say 2s2p, that means it's wired like this:









So 1 and 2 are serial. 3 and 4 are parallel. The negative of 1& 2 are connected to the positive of 3 & 4. Is that right?


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Notanob why has that pic got two positives?


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Troutie that is absolutely superb!!!

Well done. Now you can sleep at last, actually no you can't. Out and ride mate!

Two questions just to refresh my memory, and save me searching through this no very long thread

1) What gauge wires? Core number and size if you have it as most of our electronics shops don't sell by gauge but by core and size. (Naybe I'm dumb and its the same thing)

2) What optics did you end up using?

Really nice work mate.


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## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*Hey, you know what they say... See a broad, to get that booty yak 'em.*



emu26 said:


> Notanob why has that pic got two positives?


How should I know, I stole it off the internets... Someone on CPF posted the pic and I borrowed it from there. I assume this was a pre-production sample for testing.

The blue 1-4+ are mine. The marking for +1 in black (upper left) is the first pad, positive. The -4 in black (lower right) is the fourth pad, negative. The numbering would be 1-4 positive (left), 1-4 negative (right) as each die can be independently addressable/driven.


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

notaknob said:


> How should I know, I stole it off the internets... Someone on CPF posted the pic and I borrowed it from there. I assume this was a pre-production sample for testing.
> 
> The blue 1-4+ are mine. The marking for +1 in black (upper left) is the first pad, positive. The -4 in black (lower right) is the fourth pad, negative. The numbering would be 1-4 positive (left), 1-4 negative (right) as each die can be independently addressable/driven.


I was thinking about this on the way to pick up the kids and came to the conclusion that this was drawn for someone wiring up multiple MC-E and the black +, bottom right corner, indicated that it was to join the first +ve terminal of the next MC-E.

Well, it made sense to me


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Knobby, that would work though not the best way to do it. I imagined two totally seperately wired strings of 6 connected at the terminals of the driver. 
In practice each string would be one MC-E series wired and 2 dies in series of another MC-E. This averages out the die Vf differences over 6 to get the best balanced current.

Ideally though each MC-E would have two leds in each string so they are thermally balanced too, but this is getting complicated. :incazzato:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Noooooooo Stop it now you are confusing me and Doubt is setting 

I did ask way way back how to wire the 3 mce as 6 in series and 2 strings and got no confirmation as to the correct way .
So saw a pic on cpf though not that one Bruce but which had come from McGismos site who does some cracking torches and stuff and thought if he has done it like that it must be right. 

then remembered znomit has said to wire each mce up 2S2P and then connect the 3 MCE up in series So that is what I have done Now please confirm it is right or wrong 


Emu26 
I have no idea what gauge the wire is It is some that SMUDGEMTBUK gave me it is 
some teflon or silicon coated which does not shrink back when soldering and is about 1mm thick and so easy to solder maybe he can tell you what it is.

Optics I ordered the carclo 20mm ones as they were the only ones up when I ordered
in it at the moment is 1- tight / 1- narrow / 1 medium I did order an eliptical but that is not in stock and on backorder and when I do a beam shot I will try and get each individual optic shot as well 

There are certainly plenty of lumins to play with


----------



## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

Hot damn that's bright. Nice work troutie!


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

7/0.2 or 7/0.12 ptfe insulated wire Emu 

what are you building tonight troutie :thumbsup:


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

OMG.....

OMG.....

WOW.....

That looks amazing Mr Troutie!!!!! How does the casing handle the heat?

Top job :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Awesome work Chris!



troutie-mtb said:


> it is 2s2p not 4s Oh s**t what have I done nearly start:cryin: and hope I have not cooked my first MCE .


This nightmare bit had me sitting on the edge of my seat... sooo was the MC-E really cooked, or did it come good when you wired all 3 properly?


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Troutie theres 3 ways you can do it.

3 MC-E left to right.









You've done the middle way. It'll be ok.
The bottom way is perhaps better for current balancing and you can use pre wired series MCPCBs(when they get released) on each end, but the top way is better thermally.


----------



## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Wow!!! I can't wait to see the long-range shots. Do those those optics show the 4 dies and cross in the beam?... just curious, with 3 MC-Es it doesn't probably matter at all even if they do. There is a $hit-ton of light coming out the front of that!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> OMG.....
> 
> OMG.....
> 
> ...


Yes I am a happy trout now

I did a finger test this morning while I had the light on the bench and on the full 1200ma maxflex setting 
with the light on its own it warmed up to where I didnot want it to get any hotter in 2mins 20 seconds .

I then mounted it on the bike but without any thermal paste on the back as i will use when the final assembly is done 
and 10 minutes later it was only just warming up and the bars 1 inch either side of the stem were about body heat this was in still air at about 13 degrees c
so I have no worries on the heat front when out riding


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> Awesome work Chris!
> 
> This nightmare bit had me sitting on the edge of my seat... sooo was the MC-E really cooked, or did it come good when you wired all 3 properly?


Me too as notaknob said I hope he doesnt fat finger it I thought I had .

but it survived OK and will be on the bike tomorrow when some silicon has cured .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> Wow!!! I can't wait to see the long-range shots. Do those those optics show the 4 dies and cross in the beam?... just curious, with 3 MC-Es it doesn't probably matter at all even if they do. There is a $hit-ton of light coming out the front of that!


Out in the field shots will be coming to a forum near you soon .

No the optics do not show the dies they are frosted on the fronts My first reaction is to not like them but I will know more after a ride , yes there is more than enough light to compensate for the optics failings , I dont think Carclo have got it right for bike lights with these optics .

I have just put a single mce in a temporary light with a carclo 25 mm tight spot optic 
and shining it down my drive it was terrible I hated it.

I tried my Ledil ss optic from the first stemlight and it was loads better but too tall to put in permanantly

I hope the EVA optics are better


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have just wired one up in series and what a mess it looks and a pita it is too and gets in the way of the optics even more than 2s2p .

I tested the VF when wired to a 18 v battery and a 700 ma buckpuck 
and it was a pleasing 12.36 volts so am I right in thinking that you would get a fair runtime from a bflex and 15 v li ion pack before it goes out of regulation and dims


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Trout Light Beamshots*

Now it is time for the

:drumroll:

The Troutlight beamshots out on the trail

The Camera settings are as MTBR spec

I have reversed the direction to put my van in the picture for a comparison on size and distance

the objects are the same as the other beamshot pics but no Hivis stuff thistime.

TRIPLE MCE - TROUTLIGHT 
MAXFLEX SET @ 1200MA
HI - LO


















A SINGLE MCE WITH CARCLO TIGHT 25 MM OPTIC
DRIVER 700 MA BUCKPUCK - one brightness only










AND FOR A COMPARISON 
CUTTER QUAD Q5 WITH NARROW OPTIC 
NFLEX @ 1000 MA HI - LO


















THEN FOR A LAUGH OUT TO 200 METRES 
THE SAME ORDER AS ABOVE










































AND FULL ON DOWNHILL MODE i WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE RIDER WHO CAN OUT RIDE THESE LIGHTS










One conclusion from all this is the CUTTER QUAD / NARROW OPTIC / Q5
Is a fantastic bike light


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

Is the hat in the foreground a Tilley? I swear I have one just like it. 

T-MB, I am inspired.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Costings For The Trout-light*

Now it is finished this is what is has cost

3 MCE ========£45
3 optics======= £10
shipping=======£ 5

Maxflex=======£ 18.55
aluminium=====£ 10
sundry items ==£ 15
----------------
£ 103.55

battery and charger £50

£ 153.55

Time to design / build 6 months and lots of input from you all on here ( thanks to all for your support ) :thumbsup:

And where did Dweeby go ?

Trout


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for the beam shots Troutie.

It really does look like the MCE has a wide throw to it with those optics, look at the wall on the right, barely visible in the other pics. Although it is a little hard to gauge without trees down the side of the trail.

Thanks again for taking the time to update.


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Congratulations Troutie. I have been eagerly watching this thread for quite some time and it is fantastic to see the finished product. 

It is certainly been worth the wait!!!!


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

*troutie-mtb* Excellent job!!!! but what battery need you to power all leds?? the power consumption will are very high, not? 

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Troutie, Dweebys wife here.

He had to go away to sort out some family problems but I have been keeping him up to date and will let him know that at last it lives.

He maybe back next week.( I hope)

And well done, go and have a nice yorkshire pint.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Troutie, Dweebys wife here.
> 
> He had to go away to sort out some family problems but I have been keeping him up to date and will let him know that at last it lives.
> 
> ...


Thanks yetibetty 
Give him my regards His input was missed


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

whats next on the troutie agenda :smilewinkgrin: 
a single MCE helmet light maybe


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

a quad MCE tail light?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

smudgemtbuk said:


> whats next on the troutie agenda :smilewinkgrin:
> a single MCE helmet light maybe


Dont know yet Now I have got it up and working I will get out and ride for a bit that way I will see how it can be improved .

I just got back from a short ride to see what it is like and try to get some video with my helmet cam for EMU26 but had it set too low on my helmet so got some video of the floor and not the guy I was following.:madman:

I am not overly impressed with the optics the beam is too wide and scatters the light and these are the tight and 2 narrow optics so I will be looking to try some different optics later . It is very good and can afford to waste lumins but not the beam pattern I wanted .

I will wait and see what others do and hopefully their beam shots .

My honest opinion is that unless the optic people can tighten the beam up then a Quad MR 11 Q5 as in my pics is a better helmet light But we have not yet seen the 35mm Ledil EVA

on to the good points

weight the complete light weighs 165 gms and that replaces the hope faceplate.which weighs 24 gms not inc battery

Heat absolutly no problems It wont even work as a hand warmer 20 mins on full in my garage and only just above skin temp

even with the wasted lumens plenty of light for the trails , Car drivers not too keen on the road

Thats all for now


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Congratulations troutie, that's *brilliant*!


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

smudgemtbuk said:


> whats next on the troutie agenda :smilewinkgrin:
> a single MCE helmet light maybe


...... exactly what i was thinking!


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I am not overly impressed with the optics the beam is too wide and scatters the light and these are the tight and 2 narrow optics so I will be looking to try some different optics later . It is very good and can afford to waste lumins but not the beam pattern I wanted .


My impression from your beamshots was that there is so much damn light leaking out of the thing that you'd be ok with the tightest optics you can get in there.



troutie-mtb said:


> Heat absolutly no problems It wont even work as a hand warmer 20 mins on full in my garage and only just above skin temp


Full = 1200 mA? Not even hot!? Wow. Guess your heat-sinking really works eh?

I was thinking that one way to see the heat flow out of the light head would be to do some infra-red pics of the light (probably have to turn them off momentarily  ). I have no idea how that might be done.

Otherwise .. that noise you can hear is clapping from the other side of the world. Well done there that trout!

:eekster: <- expression of other riders when troutie comes over the crest ...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

thanks for the applause - Glowinthedark
we will have to wait and see which optic maker nails it for beam quality 

I could go out on my bike and commit some crime at night then they will send the police copter out and with his I R camera he would spot the heat from my bars 
and we would see how well it works


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## Hambonio (Jul 16, 2008)

How about a single MCE stem mount?


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

XP-E super lightweight helmet light using those not yet available 1cm optics.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I just got back from a short ride to see what it is like and try to get some video with my helmet cam for EMU26 but had it set too low on my helmet so got some video of the floor and not the guy I was following.:madman:
> 
> I am not overly impressed with the optics the beam is too wide and scatters the light and these are the tight and 2 narrow optics so I will be looking to try some different optics later . It is very good and can afford to waste lumins but not the beam pattern I wanted .
> 
> I will wait and see what others do and hopefully their beam shots .


Mate thanks heaps for trying, please don't waste too much time on that on my account.

As for the optics, listening to what you said last week and now seeing the purpose built optics I think I'll order a couple of the cheapy asphericals from DE or KD. It should pull the beam in a little, even if I have to "frost" the lense with wet/dry paper as suggested in another port to loose the "cross-hair" (That said I think this would only make the beam more diffuse, so probably back to where you are)

Time to get off my toosh and order some goodies.

Thanks again, not just for the advise, but also the entertainment.

Damn, I really need to get out and ride more


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

znomit 
XP-E super lightweight helmet light using those not yet available 1cm optics.

Actually there up on the cutter website. 10mm square Carclo optics. The so called medium beam is actually a 16.4 deg optic. Cutter just added the XP-E in a Q5 flux. Some one needs to make a 1/2" square tubing achesalot style triple. A 3/4" amoeba knock off would be dead easy with all the LXP - http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_LXP.pdf. Sadly it wont be me since I already ordered a MC-E with a ledil smooth spot lens and it already shipped.

check these out : 
http://www.ledil.fi/index.php?page=xp-e
Some round 10mm single optics and even a 35mm 5up lens!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono: AND :nono:

Mission finished :thumbsup:

:arf::arf: 

It is dark when I go to and return from work So it is time to do a some test riding with this creation and watch all your projects unfold 


The crazy :crazy: ideas dept is closed 




for now:smallviolin:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Mate thanks heaps for trying, please don't waste too much time on that on my account.
> 
> As for the optics, listening to what you said last week and now seeing the purpose built optics I think I'll order a couple of the cheapy asphericals from DE or KD. It should pull the beam in a little, even if I have to "frost" the lense with wet/dry paper as suggested in another port to loose the "cross-hair" (That said I think this would only make the beam more diffuse, so probably back to where you are)


Thats an idea I have one of those aspherics from dx I might have a play with it and see


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

FYI, my DIY takes advantage of my alum bars being a huge heat sink. It works surprisingly well. With the combo of normal air flow and the bar action, the light literally stays cold to the touch even after hours of riding. I was amazed, and plan to take advantage of this with every subsequent light I make. 450 Lu @ 800ma, Endor Rebel x3 array.

I like the integrated stem idea! Aiming the light is the only drawback I immediately see ~Chris








.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

LOL ...ok, I feel like a jerk. I didn't realize the thread was already 14 pages deep. That's what a get for doing this sort of stuff at work! Read all the pages, nice work guys. I am continuously impressed with how people can make cool stuff with such simple tools. I have full CNC and probably would end up just where you guys do in the end. ~C


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:lol::lol: I hope you have read it all from the start :lol::lol:


Nice minimalist light , and you are right aiming my light was a pain but doable


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I have been having a play around with various optics I have from old builds and am very encouraged from what I have seen so when it gets dark again I will have a better idea .

the early indications are that the Ledil smooth spot and eliptical look good , these are the XRE optics . and square so might atteck them with the dremel ..

also the DX aspherical if you have it just out of focus is excelent for a spot but has a halo round the edges


This all needs more investigation


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

I got one in from cutter today with a polymer optic 10 degree diffuse. Was hoping it would be similar to the 6deg XR-E but its a real flood monster. Im thinking I'll do a 1s3p build with it for a low profile low powered summer dyno light. 
You can just make out the individual dies looking at the beamshot photos but I didn't notice when I was taking them.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Just got my MTE MC-E Torch, the P7 once AMAZING has been relegated to errr thats okay, once super white is know, kinda blue, MC-E leaves P7 for DEAD, way to go CREE you kick ass.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> I got one in from cutter today with a polymer optic 10 degree diffuse. Was hoping it would be similar to the 6deg XR-E but its a real flood monster. Im thinking I'll do a 1s3p build with it for a low profile low powered summer dyno light.
> You can just make out the individual dies looking at the beamshot photos but I didn't notice when I was taking them.


No Tim we cant see the dies either


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Turveyd said:


> Just got my MTE MC-E Torch, the P7 once AMAZING has been relegated to errr thats okay, once super white is know, kinda blue, MC-E leaves P7 for DEAD, way to go CREE you kick ass.


Dont tease us lets have some pics please


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*A bit of an optic test*

Following on from earlier I have gathered all the optics hanging around in my garage.
and tried to do a comparison .

I set up an MCE on a block of ali so I could stand the optics on it and set it on the floor pointing up at the ceiling so distance light to ceiling is 9 feet 
The black tapes are 1 foot long and 1 foot apart to give a scale.

And yes my wife thinks I am mad as a shoe.

I have underexposed to see the beam better I hope this is OK

first 4 are carclo 20 mm optics sadly they all look the same but they are - frosted tight / 2 frosted narrow / 1 frosted wide . I have no idea which is which.
these ore out of the stemlight and I am going to try the Ledil XRE optics in it next.when I trim the square cotners off


































The next 3 are Ledil XRE optics in order = real spot / smooth spot / eliptical .


























next is a carclo mce 25.5 mm tight spot










dealextreme aspherical 26 mm out of focus and nearly focused


















and last an optic from a tesco cree torch










Comments welcome


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## TheFunkyMonkey (Sep 18, 2007)

Het Trout, have been following the thread from the beginning. 

Amazing work there mate!:thumbsup: 

I'm liking the ledil smooth spot, what does it look like at a distance? Say 30-40m?

The tesco optic is surprising though, bought a couple of those myself, superb for the money.

I'm going to knock up a couple of DIY Dinotte type lights a think, using an MCE with one of those RC car motor heatsinks. Not sure what to drive it with though, 7.4v battery.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

and this strange amphibious creature comes through again.

Nice work Troutie:thumbsup: 

I like the out of focus aspheric but its a shame there is no apparent spill, so on that basis what's the sku for the Cree torch that you used in the last pic so we can all go and buy them to cannibalise for their lenses?

When you say "out of focus", how have you done that? Does the lense move in its holder or have you set the holder up so it doesn't sit properly on the MC-E?

Thanks


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Troutie, these might be worth a try http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5951

Why is everything back ordered.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> No Tim we cant see the dies either


Sorry troutie I tried some beamshots today, even set up the lines like yours and same distance, but the sheet I had hung wasn't big enough. With all 4 dies going it pretty much covers everything.

Looks like 1s3p will give a good beam pattern with a nice optic though. 


















See cutoff is much sharper at the top.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Thanks Znomit 
That looks a nice even beam 
if it seems to spread out did you want a flood or throw for your light

I am confused about the 1S3P config Please explain


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Some more bloody beamshots*

I know this has become an obssesion or call it the british bulldog spirit
and I am sorry for taking up your time on here .

This is the follow up to the indoor shots from the lenses

You will know the location by now 
I am sorry that some pics are a bit wonky but it was windy and I was trying to hold the optic to the MCE with one hand and press the shutter button and they stay still for 6 seconds

and the distances are the same as before

This was the set up










the 4 * 20 mm carclo optics frosted / 1 tight -2 narrow-1 med I dont know now which is which .


































Then LEDIL - real spot - smooth spot - eliptical XRE optics


























Carclo 25 mm tight optic










That tesco torch optic










the DX aspherical


















I am going to trim the corners off 2 ledil smooth spot and 1 real spot and install them into the stem light for now. to try and tighten the beam up a little.

Ok that is another 2 hours of darkness used up


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Troutie, that Carlco 25mm looks perfect for a single MC-E bar light.

One of these nights the police will question you, do you have an excuse prepared.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Troutie, that Carlco 25mm looks perfect for a single MC-E bar light.
> 
> One of these nights the police will question you, do you have an excuse prepared.


Ha Ha Yetibetty I did think that 
it was 05.00 this morning I was out on the moors

I had got up early to watch the grand prix and then discovered it was an 08.00 start 
and couldnt go back to sleep .

my mistake it is a 26 mm optic and yes it looks a lot better on the trail than shining on a wall .
The Tesco torch optic isnt to shabby either


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Is the Carlco 26mm designed for the MC-E or is it meant for the XRE ?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Is the Carlco 26mm designed for the MC-E or is it meant for the XRE ?


Yes it is an MCE optic

I am holding my hopes up for the Ledil EVA for a single mce light
I am not sure if they are in stock yet and have some ordered

I looks a really good shape for the diyer but its performance is not known yet


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks Znomit
> That looks a nice even beam
> if it seems to spread out did you want a flood or throw for your light
> I am confused about the 1S3P config Please explain


I was hoping for something a little wider than the narrow beam XR-E polymer optic. Its nice and sharp and illuminated the lane well.

Troutie you can wire it up a few ways so the different LED dies get different currents.

Look here.
Current in from the left 600mA. Need ~6.4V
D1 gets the full current but the other three only get 200mA each.









Led light up like this:










Now imagine your aspheric beamshot with the bright square at the top and the other three 1/3 as bright. You see further because your eyes aren't burnt out from the bright squares close in.









You can also do this:
The first two LEDs get 600mA each and the other two 300mA. Need 9.6V to drive it. 









Which might look like this diagonally or you could do side by side. Making the top brighter would work well. 
Diagonally you would have a tall bright beam with a side spill half as bright.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Znomit thanks for explaining in a way even I could understand 

That is great thinking have you put it to the test or I assume it is work in progress .
I would have never thought about wiring them like that .:thumbsup:


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Znomit thanks for explaining in a way even I could understand
> That is great thinking have you put it to the test or I assume it is work in progress .
> I would have never thought about wiring them like that .:thumbsup:


Yeah I'll do something with it. Probably a super simple dyno light with some clever cooling. 
Stay tuned.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

znomit said:


> Troutie you can wire it up a few ways so the different LED dies get different currents.
> 
> Look here.
> Current in from the left 600mA. Need ~6.4V
> ...


Znomit, doesn't this fly in the face of what all the "cynics" were have said elsewhere about having to keep all the die on an MC-E electrically and thermally balanced?

JFTR I love it. It makes me feel alot more comfortable with my planned build of 4P per MC-E


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Znomit, doesn't this fly in the face of what all the "cynics" were have said elsewhere about having to keep all the die on an MC-E electrically and thermally balanced?


yes, as does the P7 

Thermal runaway isn't a concern here because you are limited to 700mA by the driver so you wont exceed the die rating. In this respect its much better than the all parallel P7.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Optic update*

I was a bit disapointed with the stem light using the 20 mm carclo optics so based on my 
testing of XRE optics for the MCE.

I have now Dremeled the corners off 3 of the smooth spot optics and installed them in the stemlight and I am very happy with the results it has pulled in the wasted light into a really nice trail light.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> I have now Dremeled the corners off 3 of the smooth spot optics and installed them in the stemlight and I am very happy with the results it has pulled in the wasted light into a really nice trail light.


Troutie I assume you mean these ones ?
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut678&cat=33

If so, how much did you have to grind off the bottom to allow for where you soldered the LED? Is there enough left for it to sit properly on the star or have you rigged up some sort of mount / holder?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie I assume you mean these ones ?
> http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut678&cat=33
> 
> If so, how much did you have to grind off the bottom to allow for where you soldered the LED? Is there enough left for it to sit properly on the star or have you rigged up some sort of mount / holder?


Yes they are the ones I was going to use a realspot too but it has a hole down the middle and it would fill with dirt so went for 3 smooth spot .

I removed it from the holder then trimed off the corners you then have a round optic
it is just sat on the MCE and glued in to the housing with silicon.

The round ledil 20 mm optics wont work because the recess in the bottom that sits over the dome is too small but the square ones are just right


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Thanks for all the optics info. I am now much more confidant about my optics choice. I am going to be using a single ledil smooth spot for a single MC-E helmet light. I ordered the 21.6mm round LM1 Ledil optic. It and my MC-E should arrive this week some time so I will take some measurements when they do. Trout I am thinking that with out the holder they may be 20mm, and perfect for your design but there is still no sketch on the ledil website just a data sheet. Another optic I really like and will be trying is the Cree designed optic for the XR-E, I am still hoping cree will do a redesign/release of there optic for the MC-E. Here is the XR-E one - http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut680 The optic with out the holder is only 20mm.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Troutie,
Appreciate all the beam shot pictures!! It will make picking a lens for my MCE cannon soo much easier.

Hey, a note on wiring. (I didn't read any mention of the following). With 3 MCE you sure have a lot of LEDS hooked up there. It would be a dam shame if one died and took out a several others due to over-current in a leg of the circuit.

What I mean is this (sorry I stole someone's nice picture, thanks)

Not that it's likely to happen, but, if you are using current splitting in your circuits, and an LED fails, or volt/current balance is lost, the partner leg is going to get some serious juice!!

An example of running at 1.2 A, applied to the picture below. 

In circuit 1 (the top) as 1.2 Amps flow and hits the T, ~0.6 Amps goes each way. If a partner should have an issue in one of the legs, the other 2 LEDs on the partner leg get exposed to excess (pop sizzle) current. So, in summary 2 are exposed per split.

In circuit 2, 1 LED is at risk per split from over-current if a leg partner should blow.

In circuit 3, 6 LEDs at risk per split !!! *THIS IS TOO RISKY*

For safety the middle circuit is the best. In these chips, 1 of the 4 bad is probably as bad as all 4, but hey &#8230;.in any case this is general good design know how worth sharing, and not learned through actual experience!

~Chris


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Good point but I expect circuit 3 is the only one where you would notice the problem and get a chance to fix it(or just turn the power down), as the whole right MC-E goes out.



sdnative said:


>


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Wow I didn't think of that. Hopefully the Cree dies fail to open circuit if they fail since most constant current regulators have some sort of open circuit protection.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Beamshots with the Ledil XRE optics*

One thing this light building has done is get me back on the bike for some riding 
As I have had a period in the doldrums biking wise .

so a couple of beamshots on the trail with the Ledil XRE optics 3 * smooth spot 
and I like it there is a lot less wasted light IMHO 
I also think a double mce with good optics would not be much different I did thing about covering up one to see but it started to do what it does best in uk rain.

Arg my distance writing is too small 
so first @ 35 mtrs 
and second @ 75 mtrs


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Oh nice work mate, completely different perspective on the amount of useable light when taken on a trail that has trees.

There is something surreal about the way those trees look though, almost like looking into a small scale model close up.

Nice work and thanks for the update.

I wonder if the MC-E specific versions of those optics will be any better (or different) from what you have produced?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sdnative said:


> Troutie,
> Appreciate all the beam shot pictures!! It will make picking a lens for my MCE cannon soo much easier.
> 
> Hey, a note on wiring. (I didn't read any mention of the following). With 3 MCE you sure have a lot of LEDS hooked up there. It would be a dam shame if one died and took out a several others due to over-current in a leg of the circuit.
> ...


Thanks for all that info I am only just coming to terms with electricity so only sort of understand .

There are folk planning to run the MCE at 1200ma over on CPF 
so hopefully if a led goes down wont the others be able to cope with the increase.
untill they get too hot .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*On trail video.*

I have done a little bit of shonky video with the helmet cam 
sorry it is not very good or radical singletrack


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

Thanks for doing that.

How does it compare to any night video you may have taken with say your triple Q5?
If I looked at the right camera specs it goes to b&w when the lux is low, so they must be putting out some light for it to switch to colour.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Thanks for doing that.
> 
> How does it compare to any night video you may have taken with say your triple Q5?
> If I looked at the right camera specs it goes to b&w when the lux is low, so they must be putting out some light for it to switch to colour.


I have had a hunt round for some I did last year with a 6 led light made from plumbing bits


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Znomit, …all reading
Failure would happen in a snap of your fingers. (It would most likely be an open as opposed to short). One millisecond light, next second burned up LEDs. Furthermore, even if you had dimming, and were the comic guy the flash with time slowing superspeed (I don't own any comics), your 'dim current' would need to be below the 700ma safe threshold…. This is without considering current inrush and control circuit response speed.

Also, I didn't want to delve into more technicals in the first post...but with tolerance stackups (variations in chip Volt/Current parameters) circuit 3 would be less balanced than #2, or #1 even. 

Circuit 3 would be prone to circuit resonance too. I doubt this would be noticeable, but this would create issues in overall reliability and efficiency. 

Not trying to start a war over this, but as a person with an engineering degree and technical electronics background, I plan to use circuit 2 (or 1, depending on wiring issues)...and will avoid #3 due to the significant shortcomings. 

I sound like a jerk this morning don't I ...lol …no offense intended


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sdnative 

Thanks for posting what is the worst case scenario 

Now I thing I have wired the troutlight as curcuit 1 and I assume you have waded through all 15 pages of this thread so you will know I am no expert on anything only dreaming up crazy bike lights .

What is the likleyhood of a led failing and what would be the cause of the failure .

If it is thermal runaway Then I have no worries as it has proved to be a very cool running light with excelent still air heat removal 

and as this has been a bit of a testbed for me there will be a mark 2 version in the pipline 
so finding the best methods would be nice .

as for sounding a jerk not to me as it is good for someone to say why things could happen not just it might happen 

so thanks in advance for a trout understandable answer


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Having played with a few of these now, I think that circuit 2 is probably the most practical from an assembly standpoint. The stars with individually addressable connections are a real PITA to work with! Circuit 2 can use a single jumper between two - pads and two + pads and therefore can use far fewer wires during assembly (which will also help with reliability).


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

sdnative said:


> Znomit, &#8230;all reading
> Failure would happen in a snap of your fingers.
> ...
> Also, I didn't want to delve into more technicals in the first post...but with tolerance stackups (variations in chip Volt/Current parameters) circuit 3 would be less balanced than #2, or #1 even.


Hey no offence  and I agree with what you're saying. My pick would be #2 as well. The strings need to be shared on individual leds so they are about the same temperature and same Vf.
My point was if a led blows in circuit 1 or 2 the adjacent led/s would run at 1200 until they pop. You wouldn't notice looking at the beam pattern if 1 or 2 dies went out and you'd keep riding until the light went out completely(at which point you ride into the nearest tree, ouch). I'm sure given Crees conservative current ratings this wouldn't be immediate (X-RE were released at 700mA max, rating now 1A and commercial lights run 1.2A, DIY lots more) and may actually run indefinitely. Realistically the weak point in the chain is the guy behind the soldering iron(speaking from experience) and not the led so a thorough check at beam on might pick this up.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Ah, I got ya. Ya know, thinking about it more, you're probably right in this case. Because, I would suspect there is a heat flux limitation on that die size which prevents them from running all 4 at the higher XR-E current… that’s the weak link. Meaning, they need a wider (or more heat conductive) base to keep the chips cool. They made this product to be interchangeable with the XR-E, and be competitive with other manufactures, so introduced a compromise. The light output would probably drop as half the LED's went off line, and if you knew what was going on, you could adjust down to prevent burning the others. Agree somewhat.

Myself, I'm too busy looking for the next jump or night critter to run over to notice myself. (the opposite actually) We have scorpions, tarantulas, ground owls, kangaroo mice, giant toads, coyotes, deer... and the occasional mad rider foaming at the mouth when the moon is full. 

Lol... me, the weak link ...no way.


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> What is the likleyhood of a led failing and what would be the cause of the failure .


Troutie, you can probably answer that better than most. How many leds have died on you that haven't been the result of user error, like connecting wrong batteries, shorting wires, bad solder etc? I would think probably not that many and I mean that in the most respectful way as well.

Thanks for the comparitive video. A little hard to tell there. The stem light certainly seems to have much more useable light over a bigger area but the inline 6 appears to have the brighter spot.


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## sdnative (Aug 10, 2008)

Troutie, 
Will see if I can get a more accurate answer as to failure mode ...given over current. Curious myself. I did read all 15 pages, thumbed though a lot of it though  

Circuit 1 still isolates the failure to a single LED die, so would be ok to me …if I was in your position of already making the rubber hit the road with a working light etc. 

Evil Kenevil's brother suggested #2 was actually easier to wire ...a bonus! 

I was going to ask how cool (or hot) your setup runs, and if you're still at ~600+ ma or running at 350 or 500?

If it runs pretty cool at 700 ma, I would suspect there may be more of an electrical inadequacy than over heat issue in regards to an over current situation. I would suspect the opposite if it runs hot. My own 450 lumen light @ 1 amp runs cool to the touch, so would guess the first case. 

Anyway …different subject, do you know the cheapest place to get the MC-E’s these days? Cutter seems to be ok, but suspect there’s a better domestic source (USA) 

Thanks!


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

sdnative said:


> Lol... me, the weak link ...no way.


No *ME*!!!


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey trout I have another Optics quesion/suggestion for you. 
I know you are eagerly awaiting the Ledil EVA, like I am waiting for the Ledil LM1. In the mean time I got to thinking and my favorite optic for the XR-E by far is one of the cheapest and most readily available. Its the Cree optic, Cree actually makes secondary optics for the XR-E and they are super cheap, efficent, have nice beams and leave tons of room to solder around. I got 5 from dx for $5 USD. The shape of the holder also makes it easy to file to diameters between 20 and 23mm. They were originally only available in 10deg but now have 8, 15, 25 and some others. Any way do you have a 
https://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut680. Known on cutter as XLSL series. If you have some I am dieing to know how they look with the MC-E.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Troutie, you can probably answer that better than most. How many leds have died on you that haven't been the result of user error, like connecting wrong batteries, shorting wires, bad solder etc? I would think probably not that many and I mean that in the most respectful way as well.
> 
> Thanks for the comparitive video. A little hard to tell there. The stem light certainly seems to have much more useable light over a bigger area but the inline 6 appears to have the brighter spot.


Emu26 
I have managed to murder 4 XRE`s with stupid mistakes , non with bad soldering and my soldering is bad . Though getting better as I have used a few XRE`s naked and they are not easy to solder to with a six inch nail 

In lights built I have had a zero failure rate .all my builds are overcooled if that is possible .

When I did the inline 6 and ran it for a while I did think it would be better if the bar had a small curve to spread the light out a bit both lights have enough light for videoing with a helmet cam and you have to stay close to the subject because of the wide lens on the camera . I tried with a narrower lens and there was too much shake . .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sdnative said:


> Troutie,
> Will see if I can get a more accurate answer as to failure mode ...given over current. Curious myself. I did read all 15 pages, thumbed though a lot of it though 
> 
> Circuit 1 still isolates the failure to a single LED die, so would be ok to me &#8230;if I was in your position of already making the rubber hit the road with a working light etc.
> ...


From reading stevels post I am thinking I am no2 









please confirm for me

Cool or hot . my only measuring device is my body.
it is running at the fullest i can which is 600ma down each string .
on the trail icy cold 
in my garage ambient about 12 c at the moment it needs 10 minutes to start to feel warm and after 20 minutes the whole light was at skin temp plus a bit

So I think it is a very cool light

can you explain the electrical inadequacy bit for me please


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> Hey trout I have another Optics quesion/suggestion for you.
> I know you are eagerly awaiting the Ledil EVA, like I am waiting for the Ledil LM1. In the mean time I got to thinking and my favorite optic for the XR-E by far is one of the cheapest and most readily available. Its the Cree optic, Cree actually makes secondary optics for the XR-E and they are super cheap, efficent, have nice beams and leave tons of room to solder around. I got 5 from dx for $5 USD. The shape of the holder also makes it easy to file to diameters between 20 and 23mm. They were originally only available in 10deg but now have 8, 15, 25 and some others. Any way do you have a
> https://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut680. Known on cutter as XLSL series. If you have some I am dieing to know how they look with the MC-E.


sorry bikerjay the beamshots were all the optics I could find so we wait and see


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Battery run time test*

Now I have my batteries back from being loaned out I could try some runtime tests .

First was the triple troutlight . with a 14.8 v - 2400 mah li ion Fresh off the charger so 16.something volts 
I ran it on the maxflex full setting of 1200ma with the bike sat outside in a nice cool breeze .
it ran non stop for 1 hour 17 minutes then the battery protection tripped and the lights went out on resetting the battery the battery was 12 .95 volts and also quite warm 
IE just above body temp ,

then on to a single MCE wired in series and powered be a 14.8 v - 2400 mah li ion battery 
connected to a 700 ma buckpuck sat on a huge lump of aluminium 
6 inches across and just over 1 inch thick .










again battery fresh off the charger reading 16.47 volts

MCE battery runtime test 14.8 li ion 2300 mah --700 ma buckpuck MCE M10

LED PRO program forcast 3 hr 20 mins

battery straight of the charger reading 16.47 volts
mce VF is 12.36v

1 hour 33 minutes later 
battery is 14.61v

1hr 45 batt @ 14.57v	led vf 12.64v

1 hr 55 batt @ 14.53v led vf 12.61v

2 hr 05 batt @ 14.52v led vf 12.58v

2 hr 15 batt @ 14.47v led vf 12.58v

2 hr 25 batt @ 14.41v led vf 12.57v	heat sink @ body temp

2 hr 35 batt @ 14.33v led vf 12.59v heat sink slowly warming so desk fan switched on

2 hr 45 batt @ 14.22v led vf 12.70 v	heat sink cold room temp fan switched off

2 hr 55 batt @ 14.02v	led vf 12.67v heat sink still cool

3 hr 05 batt @ 13 00 v	led vf 12.62v heat sink under body temp 
change to 5 mins

3 hr 10 batt @ 12 .00v led vf 11.79	led is dimmer but I did not notice when it happened

3 hr 16 the lights went out no volts showing on the battery protection curcuit tripped

reset the trip by a quick connect to the charger and battery showing 12.33 v

I will let you draw your own conclusions

The Bflex is set to trip at 12v by default to protect 14.8 Li Ion batteries


----------



## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

Toutie, that is more than good news, and that's only a 2300mah battery.

I was thinking that people would be able to build nice small lights with the MC-E but have to drag a huge battery around.

Now you can have a small light/small battery combo with plenty of light and good run times.

What more could we want?


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

Fuel cells ...


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Now you can have a small light/small battery combo with plenty of light and good run times.
> What more could we want?


No battery, infinite runtimes.  
Dynamo! :thumbsup:


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

znomit said:


> No battery, infinite runtimes.
> Dynamo! :thumbsup:


Infinte run times?
Your bike clearly has a different motor to mine


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> No battery, infinite runtimes.
> Dynamo! :thumbsup:


Have you got shares in a dynohub co


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

yetibetty said:


> Toutie, that is more than good news, and that's only a 2300mah battery.
> 
> I was thinking that people would be able to build nice small lights with the MC-E but have to drag a huge battery around.
> 
> ...


Cheers yetibetty 
:arf: who is this Toutie 

people had been theroising about running these things from Bflexes and such

It seemed a good idea to do a real time test and set the record straight

It was quite amazing watching the voltage drop in the last few minutes of runtime .

I will need a bigger battery for the Troutlight though .


----------



## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

What a heatsink!!!!!!!!! :eekster: 

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


----------



## fre3ud (Apr 29, 2008)

*brighter still*

Here is an interesting page about getting up to 15x more light out of your led.
http://www.stockeryale.com/i/leds/lit/app001.htm


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

sdnative said:


> Hey, a note on wiring. (I didn't read any mention of the following). With 3 MCE you sure have a lot of LEDS hooked up there. It would be a dam shame if one died and took out a several others due to over-current in a leg of the circuit.
> 
> What I mean is this (sorry I stole someone's nice picture, thanks)
> 
> ...


I drew a crappy picture of what I think the wiring would look like for circuit 2 when applied to the stars. Am I close? [see attached picture]


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

pinkrobe said:


> I drew a crappy picture of what I think the wiring would look like for circuit 2 when applied to the stars. Am I close? [see attached picture]


Yes that is the same as this just you cant see the links between stars


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> battery straight of the charger reading 16.47 volts
> mce VF is 12.36v


I am confused 

How is the VF 12.36 V ? Looking at the MCE data sheet the Vf per die at 700ma is somewhere near 3.4 V each i.e 13.6 v in series. What have i missed??

I have a couple of 14.8v packs and would love the Vf to be in the 12's to make driver selection a little easier. Please tell me I am wrong


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> I am confused
> 
> How is the VF 12.36 V ? Looking at the MCE data sheet the Vf per die at 700ma is somewhere near 3.4 V each i.e 13.6 v in series. What have i missed??
> 
> I have a couple of 14.8v packs and would love the Vf to be in the 12's to make driver selection a little easier. Please tell me I am wrong


Forest gump
Leds are like a box of chocolates you never know what your gonna get .

I can only tell it like it is on the ones I have tested 
there have been reports of low VF`s for the MCE on CPF

my triple troutlight vf was under 19 v for the 2 strings of 6

I would be happy for a runtime like I got in the test from a 2400mah pack

I have been running quad Q5 and R2 lights for a year with the Bflex and my 14.8 packs 
and suited my riding times , you dont ride on full all the time

mind you 1hour 17 mins for the triple on full is not so good 
But I do have a 4800 ma pack


----------



## pinkrobe (Jan 30, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> Yes that is the same as this just you cant see the links between stars


ORLY! Hell, even I can solder that. The order to Cutter goes in today, crap exchange rate be damned...


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

pinkrobe said:


> ORLY! Hell, even I can solder that. The order to Cutter goes in today, crap exchange rate be damned...


Tell me about it. The maxFlex2 has just gone up to $59 + GST for us locals:madmax:


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Forest gump
> Leds are like a box of chocolates you never know what your gonna get .
> 
> I can only tell it like it is on the ones I have tested
> ...


Wow there.... wait a minute... So the laws of mathematics no longer apply  

I mean, this is great news for a buckpuck and 14.8v battery but i just assumed all would be as listed on the spec sheet. Thanks for the heads up, an MCE build beckons just as soon as I finish this r2 build i am working on now.


----------



## BrewMaster (Jun 9, 2007)

3+ hours for a single MCE on a 2300 mAh battery is wonderful but painful at the same time. This will make a perfect helmet light but I don't need another light. You're making me build one troutie. I blame you.

"Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in." -Michael Corleone


----------



## MoMaTo (Nov 26, 2007)

Troutie, that run-time test is just what the doctor ordered 

I am getting an MC-E to play with for a helmet light!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Whoa hold up there I may have been lucky and got some really good ones 
and there might be some not so good 

:madmax:I dont want you all sending a lynch mob to Yorkshire if it doesnt work out :madmax:

The only thing I missed was when the light dimmed if it did 

:arf::arf::arf: Brewmaster 
look into my eyes you will build an MCE light 
:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:


ocean breaths salty 
Wow there.... wait a minute... So the laws of mathematics no longer apply 

I think it happened when I was abducted by aliens on my beamshot shoot.they gave me special led powers .
but my ar$e is still sore :ciappa:


----------



## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Lol


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*The small light.*

Thanks to Cytoe and staring ot his light design

an Idea for a tiny but very bright bar light struck me 
an as a friend wanted a light building with an MCE and he is a weight weeny type of cyclist this seemed perfect .

so here is a plan of the light that is currently in production .










more details to follow later


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I suppose you could say it is a dinnotte style MCE light .
and I dont think you could make it much smaller with out putting the driver in with the battery .

And I think this build is very possible just using a drill press / files / and a dremel .
the hardest bit is the curve for the bars as this needs to be a very good fit for the heat sinking.. and yes I did cheat and use the lathe

not a suitable build for the carbon bar owners .


























The rear cavity is a bit messy I think that is my impatience with the drill press and dremel
when I could have used my mini mill for a better finish .


































I am waiting for some epoxy to set then I can do a beam shot and pic of the finished light .


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

whilst youre waiting for the epoxy to set i'm thinking about the 'mini troutlight'


----------



## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Awesome. What optic will you be using?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

smudgemtbuk said:


> whilst youre waiting for the epoxy to set i'm thinking about the 'mini troutlight'


This is the mini trout light I dont think I could get it any smaller 
it is the driver end that needs the room .

I could get it a bit smaller with a Bflex and micro switch but not much .

Quad Q5 light inc clamp 152 gms

mini trout light inc clamp 101gms


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

StevelKnivel said:


> Awesome. What optic will you be using?


Stevel untill some thing better comes along it is a XRE ledil square smooth spot 
with out the holder.


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Troutie, you've done it again. Those lines are just pure art.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cheers hootsmon 
I wish I could get it smaller but it is as small as I could get it 
Iwill be taking it for a spin in the morning so will have a beam shot on the trail then

but here is one from in my garden










and the same shot with a single R2 @1000ma smooth spot again









It is amazing how much difference it makes to the heat just putting it on a bar 
I have an old seat tube that is the same diameter as the over size bars which I use as my test 
and with the light just sat on my desk it was 4 minutes to hot 
it has been on the post for over twice as long and only just warming up 
The bars just suck the heat right out .

I dont know if anyone has tried this but put your finger in front of an optic with an mce and it will burn you with the radiated heat ..


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*wow. I like it!*

I may have to switch back to aluminum bars


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> I may have to switch back to aluminum bars


No good for you with the carbon bars I think

I am going to try a similar design for a Ledil eva optic When they get here .

with round bar and it would be a bit dinotte-esq but fairly easy to make I hope


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Just done a basic drawing on this wee free design programme

https://www.cadlogic.com/products/draftit/default.aspx

I cannot see anywhere it can be made smaller for a 35 mm optic 
it is pretty tight in the back as it is.

I can be made from 50mm bar so one for you cytoe as I have no 50mmbar left


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

My God man you are prolific.

Stop already will and let the rest of us try and catch up, or atleast wait till our gear arrives.

I think this deserves its own thread mate.

Oh yeah, nice work, yet again :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> My God man you are prolific.
> 
> Stop already will and let the rest of us try and catch up, or atleast wait till our gear arrives.
> 
> ...


 Sorry I will go out and buy a television then


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Sorry I will go out and buy a television then


Don't go and do that..... reading your threads is what i do instead of watching television :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Don't go and do that..... reading your threads is what i do instead of watching television :thumbsup:


:lol: :lol: 
Thanks salty I will spend the money on leds and stuff then


----------



## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

Hey Trout, an plans to make a couple extra of these bodies and sell them off?

To improve on an already great design, make the clamp a quick release!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

kgardnez said:


> Hey Trout, an plans to make a couple extra of these bodies and sell them off?
> 
> To improve on an already great design, make the clamp a quick release!


I do make a few and sell them .

I have thought about making a quick release it is still going round my head


----------



## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> I do make a few and sell them .
> 
> I have thought about making a quick release it is still going round my head


How would I go about buying one of your housings?


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> :lol: :lol:
> Thanks salty I will spend the money on leds and stuff then


Thats a much better idea Troutie, unless of course you want to send that soon to be surplus TV I spy hanging on the way in your profile pic my way


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Thats a much better idea Troutie, unless of course you want to send that soon to be surplus TV I spy hanging on the way in your profile pic my way


:lol: I have been rumbled , I would have to send :arf: mrs trout too as she likes the reality TV shows , that is why I get so much shed time :thumbsup:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

kgardnez said:


> How would I go about buying one of your housings?


PM me or email 
I have sent you a pm


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Beam shot from the mini Troutlight*

As promised an on trail beam shot of the square single MCE mini trout lite

see post above for cockup









triple mce k bin cool white for comparison


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Holy smokes troutie, that colour rendition is like daylight. :thumbsup: 

Which chromaticity MC-E are you using there? The reason I'm asking is because I've ordered 2 MC-Es from the E6 (warm white) bin, and I'm hoping they'll look OK. Any thoughts?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> Holy smokes troutie, that colour rendition is like daylight. :thumbsup:
> 
> Which chromaticity MC-E are you using there? The reason I'm asking is because I've ordered 2 MC-Es from the E6 (warm white) bin, and I'm hoping they'll look OK. Any thoughts?


Hootsmon yes I agree it does look rather good even to me as I have defective colour vision

this is the ones I ordered of Cutters .
Select MCE Multichip Bin : MCE4WT-A2-0000-000M10 Cool white, 430 min lumens,WA,WB,WC,WE,WF,WK,WM,WN

:madman: Thanks Hoots you have just made me realise I have put the K bin 370 lumen
MCEs in my stem light they were bought to put in mates lights and the best ones for my light :madman:

these MCE4WT-A2-WG0-K0-0-00001, Cool white, 370 min lumens,WG

now goes off to have a compare with the stem light pics


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

:thumbsup: Wow....those beamshots look awesome 

Top work Mr Troutie


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> :madman: Thanks Hoots you have just made me realise I have put the K bin 370 lumen
> MCEs in my stem light they were bought to put in mates lights and the best ones for my light :madman:


Now let me get this right? You didn't have M bin LED's in the triple trout stem light? So you are telling me that it will in fact be brighter again??? DEAR GOD!!


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


>


What did you do to finish this section off? What did you use to cap it with?


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> :madman: Thanks Hoots you have just made me realise I have put the K bin 370 lumen
> MCEs in my stem light they were bought to put in mates lights and the best ones for my light :madman:


Thats OK Troutie, we all know how much you enjoy resoldering things and then getting out on the moors in the middle of the night. Any excuse to escape reality TV hey?


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

I'm rolling around on the floor laughing at all this


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> What did you do to finish this section off? What did you use to cap it with?


when I finally got it chewed out big enough for the buckpuck and switch / powersocket
the endcap was just a bit of flat ali and the whole lot epoxied in place then when the epoxy had set carefully finished it on a belt sander .

so it is permanent or destroy to access

Yes the troutlight could be brighter not sure on by howmuch


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Well, at least it is nothing that an evening of reality television won't let you fix


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Thats OK Troutie, we all know how much you enjoy resoldering things and then getting out on the moors in the middle of the night. Any excuse to escape reality TV hey?


I dont mind resoldering , love getting out on the moors at night 
Hate to let my mates have better leds

:incazzato:They will not have them :incazzato:

And to you hoots for laughing rft:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*No work today*

No work today so I needed to do a cutter triple light for a mate and he said he didnot care 
what it looked like so I thought it would be good to try out an idea to follow on from the mini light.

so took a few pics to bore you all with .and as a picture is worth 1000 words 
here is 6000 worth.


















































If this works out it may be used for when I get some EVA optics .

and I thought I would use the dinnotte rubber band mount for super minimal


----------



## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> I dont mind resoldering , love getting out on the moors at night
> Hate to let my mates have better leds
> 
> :incazzato:They will not have them :incazzato:
> ...


No worry mate, just charge top Pound for bleeding edge technology, then ride just slightly (feet, meters, yards, whatever your unit of measure there) behind them and suck hind tit off their light goodness that you built for them. It helps also if not on jeep trail but on single track if you ride their A$$ to benefit from their lighting for free. Jeep trails, you can just run side by side.

Don't ask me how I know this, my arse has been molded by quite a few noses lately. :thumbsup:


----------



## MoMaTo (Nov 26, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


>


Troutie, what mount is on the black one - seen it several times before but could not find it on MTBR today - If I remember correctly, it is 7-8£? It is the QR one with kind of a double-hinged bracket, correct? I need one (or something similar, where the connection with the light is raised away from the bracket itself).


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

MoMaTo
it is this one 
http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/product2.aspx?product=QR_LRG&dep=5


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

theres me thinking you drilled and filed the groove in :lol: 
that would look wicked anodised the colour of youre stem


----------



## MoMaTo (Nov 26, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> MoMaTo
> it is this one
> http://www.lumicycle.com/Product/product2.aspx?product=QR_LRG&dep=5


Indeed it is :thumbsup:


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

these are cheaper £2.99


----------



## MoMaTo (Nov 26, 2007)

Yes they are, but wouldn't work for my application (mostly because someone decided to put that thumb screw on top where the light goes - at least when you remove the original top part thingy).

But thanks for the info anyway


----------



## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Troutie,
Awesome idea on the bar mount! Can you give us an estimated weight? And are you planning on putting the driver in the rear portion? I'll be watching yet another of your genius ideas turn out while I wait for machine time here at work...

Oh, and merry freaking christmas. Its snowing here in Chicagolalaland...


----------



## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

only problem is there is no left to right aim. But great idea.


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> No work today so I needed to do a cutter triple light for a mate and he said he didnot care what it looked like so I thought it would be good to try out an idea to follow on from the mini light.
> 
> so took a few pics to bore you all with .and as a picture is worth 1000 words
> here is 6000 worth.....


Well it looks superb! I really like minimalist designs, and it's very clever how you've bored-out the handlebar mounting to get a massive thermal-path to soak heat away into the bars. I'm thinking this design might be the best effort yet. Just guessing, that housing looks like it'd just fit some sort of 26mm optic, right? So would it be 'upsized' to take an EVA?

BTW, I wasn't really laughing, more like giggling uncontrollably.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dnlwthrn said:


> Troutie,
> Awesome idea on the bar mount! Can you give us an estimated weight? And are you planning on putting the driver in the rear portion? I'll be watching yet another of your genius ideas turn out while I wait for machine time here at work...
> 
> Oh, and merry freaking christmas. Its snowing here in Chicagolalaland...


Yes the driver /switch goes it the back , and also going to try the rubber ring mounting method ..










weight of the housing at the moment is 83 gms

sx-racer 
surly it will point where the bars point ?


----------



## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> sx-racer
> surly it will point where the bars point ?


Yes Troutie but the majority of bars have some sort of "Sweep". So unless you have space left in that very small area beside the stem, which is ofetn still "straight", then the light will toe out by the amount of sweep on the bar.

Personally, this is a good thing. Just whack another one on the other side (helps keep your ride balanced :thumbsup: ) but would also provide great spread, with both beams overlapping in the middle to provide a really sweet amount of light directly infront of you.

Keep the ideas coming mate.

Now as for your build method. Do you have good "life cover"? I know I'm conservative but I honestly can't believe you have bored out the "bar" hole with the piece held in like that. I ask 'cause if I'm going to get left footing the bill for shipping "the Boss" over with your TV then I want to make sure she brings some inheritance with her


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> Well it looks superb! I really like minimalist designs, and it's very clever how you've bored-out the handlebar mounting to get a massive thermal-path to soak heat away into the bars. I'm thinking this design might be the best effort yet. Just guessing, that housing looks like it'd just fit some sort of 26mm optic, right? So would it be 'upsized' to take an EVA?
> 
> BTW, I wasn't really laughing, more like giggling uncontrollably.


Hoots cheers ( a bit of giggling is ok ) I am really delighted that it can be made brighter

this one is 35 mm it was for the EVA but I just got an email from Mark @ cutters saying 
they are not in stock for maybe another 2 weeks which is a bummer .as I have lights to build for paying customers and no decent optics yet.

I like it for lots of reasons . it is rocksolid on the bars ./ great heat removal / simple to mount and remove . and easy to machine a lot easier than loads of fins.
can be scaled down for other optics .










helmet mount might be an issue so loses a bit on versatility


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

emu26 said:


> Yes Troutie but the majority of bars have some sort of "Sweep". So unless you have space left in that very small area beside the stem, which is ofetn still "straight", then the light will toe out by the amount of sweep on the bar.
> 
> Personally, this is a good thing. Just whack another one on the other side (helps keep your ride balanced :thumbsup: ) but would also provide great spread, with both beams overlapping in the middle to provide a really sweet amount of light directly infront of you.
> 
> ...


Yes emu26 this is an issue I have not tested yet because I need to remove my stem light to do it , 
it will get tested with the minilight tonight on my mates bike when we go for a spin .

the mounting of the bar in the chuck looked a bit iffy but I had a piece of work in the 4 jaw unfinished and didnot want to remove it as you can never get it back in the right place.

it was spot on for the hole offset in the bar also the forth jaw would get in the way of the cutter.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Helmet mount now that was easy .


----------



## MoMaTo (Nov 26, 2007)

Sweet and air-cooled mount ;-)


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Hahaha, 

That is glorious!


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

well done mate, you've done it again.









you must be running out of names for them all by now though


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

That helmet-mount is wonderful!


----------



## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

that is nice!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

update on the trout light .
it has been on a bit of a diet


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*that is sooo sweet!*

that's one pretty light. so how does heat dissipation on the helmet?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> that's one pretty light. so how does heat dissipation on the helmet?


Pretty good at the moment as I have no leds to put in it . 
this is for a another diyer .

It will be tested in the next 2 weeks


----------



## dkvick (Apr 16, 2004)

Awesome design. Keep up the good work.:thumbsup:


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

ooh troutie i need a DC socket like that one on yr scales
where did ya get it??
Thx


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

from cpc/farnell  hendo


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

:thumbsup: hmm dont look like it will go through a 3mm thick panel:cryin:


----------



## glowinthedark (Jul 8, 2008)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> :thumbsup: hmm dont look like it will go through a 3mm thick panel:cryin:


Same thing at jaycar (more expensive though).

They have a schematic, which may or may not tell you more about fitting your 3mm panel.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> :thumbsup: hmm dont look like it will go through a 3mm thick panel:cryin:


if you remove the locking washer it will just do a 3 mm panel

you do need to pot them at the back to stop water getting inside the light though
I do it awth a bit of silicon sealer


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

RE: DC socket...

Hey Hendo,
I can back up what troutie says, if you take off the spring washer it will fit a 3mm panel, that's what my panel is and it fits perfectly. The nut even lines up with the end of the socke for a neat finish. It's an 8mm hole BTW

Steve


----------



## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Thanks guys, much appreciated .....
wow the original light was good but the new low calorie version is ....
....... *SOOOO SEXY!*


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Thanks guys, much appreciated .....
> wow the original light was good but the new low calorie version is ....
> ....... *SOOOO SEXY!*


Cheers Hendo 
I am well chuffed with it . it has been a long journey getting to some thing I like 
that works . and I am a bit of a minimalist guy

Well nearly I have dismantled a quad R2 light to put it in this one 
got it built all barring a connecter to get power in the one that was on my scales has been abducted by aliens and it was my last one .
so no testing yet .


----------



## TTGV (Oct 31, 2008)

*pointing feature*

Hello Troutie,
Here is a idea that give a new feature to your pure (de)light : The green shim is made with two cones with angle between their axis. When you turn the shim between the handlebar and the lamp's body, the light spot will move left or right. (The inner cone fit to a conic handlebar, but it could be a cylinder, like a usual one inch sized ). The outside cone will naturally stick in the same cone machined in your light, if the cone angle is "closed" enough. As usual with a shim, some saw job would be done...but was'nt drawn. The total angle sweeped by the light spot is the double of the angle between the two cones's axis.








The manufacturing method may need some home-made tool...
Have a good fun with lathe!


----------



## greasyrider (Jul 13, 2008)

Interesting idea, but how do you slide the cone down a bent handlebar?


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

greasyrider said:


> Interesting idea, but how do you slide the cone down a bent handlebar?


oooh, check and mate! :madman:

great idea though.... i am too spatially challenged to get my head around it without being able to do hands on


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## TTGV (Oct 31, 2008)

greasyrider,
the cone should be cut in two parts, because the Troutie light hole is not half opened and then the cones are maintained pressed against the handlebars. Or at least it could be partially cut to be opened.
Several methods could be designed. (curved saw travel...) 
The sticky problem is : one handlebar, one cone angle .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Very interesting TTGV and thanks 
I have had to study it for a while to see what you mean .

I think it is a solution to a problem that does not exist on my bars 
There is just enough realestate for then to fit ok with only a tiny angle inwards 
and this is with the larger MR11 sized lights .

the small mce lights will fit a lot better

as you can see from the photo they are very nearly paralel


----------



## TTGV (Oct 31, 2008)

Lucky man !
Raised handlebars seems to offer such a little cylindrical place, but the 31.8 flat one haven't....


----------



## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

Hey, I have an electric blue MCS as well!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

kgardnez said:


> Hey, I have an electric blue MCS as well!


Nice I like the wheels They where not available when we bought ours .

I keep looking at the aspherical lens in the front lights and wondering if mrs trout will let me remove one to play with .


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*On the trail comparison of MCE V quad R2*

I am getting very bored waiting for some ledil EVA optics so really am just going round and round with the stuff I do have

but thought that this might be a usefull comparison and I can repeat it when I get the evas

only thing is I forgot to set the quad R2 down to 750ma which would have been a more equal test.

The first pic is a single M bin MCE @ 700 ma with - xre ledil real spot optic 
it is nice but you can see the joins between the leds when riding .

next is a Quad R2 @1000ma with the cutter narrow optic 
I would like My MCE to have a beam like this one for my helmet

And the last pic is both on together


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Great photos trout :thumbsup: 

When you say you can see the gaps between dies... is that only with the single MCE on?

I take it the gaps disappear when the helmet light goes on or you use more than one MCE at once i.e the trout light?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Great photos trout :thumbsup:
> 
> When you say you can see the gaps between dies... is that only with the single MCE on?
> 
> I take it the gaps disappear when the helmet light goes on or you use more than one MCE at once i.e the trout light?


Yes if you look at the first pic you can see the square of the bottom die more a diamond as the mce is mounted on the diagonal in the light this was an idea so the botton die lit the near ground 
the 2 middle die lit the mid ground and the top far farground.
and when riding on the street you can see all 4 die with a gap between

no helmet light on these pics they were both bar mounted each side of the stem


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Its an interesting beam pattern, thats for sure...

How do you rate the MCE's thus far?? From what i can gather from your threads you seem a bit disappointed by them with current optics. would that be a fair assessment? 

I am thinking of making an MCE bar light but think i might wait until the optic choices are a little more suitable.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Its an interesting beam pattern, thats for sure...
> 
> How do you rate the MCE's thus far?? From what i can gather from your threads you seem a bit disappointed by them with current optics. would that be a fair assessment?
> 
> I am thinking of making an MCE bar light but think i might wait until the optic choices are a little more suitable.


Yes You could say that and the original thought that you can make a tiny light 
has not materialised with the optics yet .

but we have not seen all the optics yet .

As Znomit said earlier the optics seem to be heading towards mr11 sizes 
so no advantage yet . and still the best of the ones I have used is the 26.5 mm carclo tight

maybe I am too picky with the beams

but in my opinion so far nothing has come close to the quad cutter medium and narrow 
set up .


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

My MCE's better focused than that, just been playing around with it ( bored also ), unwound the head a 1 turn and it looks just like your, think i've got it wound in abit more than it was and slightly tighter spot but a small donught hole in it, likely not enough to see on the trail though.

I'd like slightly tighter focus on my MCE torch aswell, but it's so near perfect ( and the exchange rate to the UK sucks ), it'll do!!

Try removing abit of the material at the base of your reflector so the LED sits alittle higher that should improve your focus!!

Both on together is sunlight bright nice!!!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Another beamshot opinions please*

Sorry to be a pain but here is another beam shot of the same woods 
I would like your opinions on this one please


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

thats much better, youve got rid of the ' V ' and filled in the side bits.
how did you manage that?


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

That's much better:thumbsup: 

A good spread of light there Mr Troutie


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## kgardnez (Jan 31, 2004)

What did you change on the reflector?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

:smilewinkgrin:


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

"Sorry to be a pain but here is another beam shot of the same woods
I would like your opinions on this one please"

.......Absolutely perfect beam troutie, no way you could improve that :thumbsup:


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## TheFunkyMonkey (Sep 18, 2007)

Put me down for 1 of those trout!


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Much nicer, played with the pill to reflector position no doubt.


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## dsut4392 (Mar 9, 2007)

Don't tell us...you machined yourself a custom reflector and hand polished it?


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

I hand polished my first P7's reflector after I cleaned it and wiped the reflective coating off, it took HOURS sand paper and then Brasso then I went and popped it by putting 2 x CR123a's into it doh!!

I briefly had the best throwing torch ever though! at the time


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## achesalot (Nov 8, 2005)

That's some good looking work there Mr. Trout!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Turveyd said:


> Much nicer, played with the pill to reflector position no doubt.


No reflectors at work here it is a tir optic 
just a different one used in the long search


----------



## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Dont leave us hanging.... Which TIR optic is it. Is it, the ledil LM1 or the 23mm cree secondary optic. I am hoping its a cheap DX optic.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

bikerjay said:


> Dont leave us hanging.... Which TIR optic is it. Is it, the ledil LM1 or the 23mm cree secondary optic. I am hoping its a cheap DX optic.


If I tell you I will have to kill you 

shh dont tell anyone 
it is a ledil rocket ss for an xre led 
which has been discontinued I think or replaced with the LC1 
which does not fit the mce


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Damn.

On a side note, I just tried the Carclo Tight 26.5 that I got from Cutter, and at about 8-10 ft, I don't see the "crosshairs" effect. It could be because its daylight and I'm at work, but who knows. I don't have a housing for the MC-E yet (can't decide what to do for it, planning on a helmet mount if I can get enough of a spot focus), so no night-time or beam shots from me for a while.


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## TTGV (Oct 31, 2008)

Hello, about Ledil Rocket ss, take a look at :
http://www.cutter.com.au/products.php?cat=33&pg=3

and click on the 
*XR-E Optic Options:*

















 Please Select...Ledil CRS-RS ±6° Ledil CRS-D ±9° Ledil CRS-M ±14° Ledil CRS-O ±5° x ±25° Ledil CRS-SS ±7° Ledil Rocket 26mm Smooth Spot Ledil Rocket 26mm Oval Ledil Rocket 26mm Medium  
 <

Did you use some "dremel tunning" to fit on the MC-E ?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

TTGV 
doh never thought to look there .

Yes the dremel was used to remove some of the base but it may fit on a star that does not need all the jumpleads .


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Just wondering, how hard would it be to take a lump of polycarbonate stock, and turn it down to TIR shape (on a metal-lathe I mean) ?


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## dnlwthrn (Jan 26, 2006)

Turning the polycarbonate is not hard, getting the type of beam you want, however, is much more complicated... If you know your way around a lathe, you can easily make the shape. But if you look at the optics, there is much more to them than just a polycarbonate cone.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

dnlwthrn said:


> Turning the polycarbonate is not hard, getting the type of beam you want, however, is much more complicated... If you know your way around a lathe, you can easily make the shape. But if you look at the optics, there is much more to them than just a polycarbonate cone.


This has gone round in the shed that is my head also .
then you have the polishing of said cone .

I have thought of doing the turning cone thing as a reflector in the light head 
but that is as far as it got .

and on that thought do you need a reflector when you use an aspherical lens.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> and on that thought do you need a reflector when you use an aspherical lens.


Yeah I've been wondering about that too. Troutie you have both I think??? 
Beamshots please


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

I only have a glass DX aspherical no reflectors

but these are the beams from the optic test miles down this post

sort of in focus










and a bit out of focus










It might be worth have an adjustable focus on an aspherical to taylor the beam to the riding conditions the more out of focus the wider the beam :idea:

if you could have it indexed then dead wide for on the road and a quick click for piercing beam for the car driver on full beam


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## emu26 (Jun 23, 2008)

I still think that out of focus is the best helmet mount option so far.

Check your email Troutie, some progress


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Yeah I guess the light that doesn't get to the lens is wasted. I'm thinking a really short reflector between aspheric and led....


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Yeah I guess the light that doesn't get to the lens is wasted. I'm thinking a really short reflector between aspheric and led....


Might be worth asking the flashlight boffins over on CPF lots of them play with aspherics

I keep looking there and then get sidetracked and follow a totally unrelated thread .


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

One of these with an adjuster knob or small motor attached would be awesome.
http://www.cutter.com.au/proddetail.php?prod=cut188
Or perhaps have a dyno powered light that goes wide beam at a slow speed and tightens as you speed up.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OK I asked the question about reflectors and aspherics on CPF 
and a very knowledgable gent called Saabluster .
Who has built the worlds longest throwing flashlight an aspheric .
answered 

It would be rubbish with the reflector in there as well if that is your question. You could just leave it at max focus and then have a diffuser that could be put over it when you wanted flood. That would be a very easy way to do it any way. It is not common knowledge around here but I have done a lot of experiments and have gotten the reflector to work but it requires two things. The reflector needs to be as small as possible and you need to use a light diffusion material to blend it ever so slightly. 
__________________


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## sping (Jan 24, 2008)

I'd have thought that even if a reflector wouldn't give you good throw, it will only be taking light that would otherwise not have made it out the lens, and it will give you flood.

i.e. you'll get exactly the same flow you'd get with no reflector, but better flood.


----------



## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

Are you guys talking about using a reflector WITH an aspherical lens? No reason why it wouldn't work, but you would have to design the two together as a complete system. Both the lens and reflector are designed to take the highly divergent light from the emitter and reshape the beam profile to give something useable. If you use both together, the lens sees the already reshaped output of the reflector, and messes it up. It's not as simple as: more of a good thing = better.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*New project Troutelight*

Hi Folks

I can`t be having my thread dropping off the page

so here we go with the first pic of a new project that will involve much sawing and drilling 
with a bit of Latheing thrown in for good measure

and as this is my last piece of aluminium block I better think and measure twice and cut once .

Hopefully this will keep me occupied untill Ledil have made and shipped the EVA optics .


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Go Trout Go!


----------



## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> ...so here we go with the first pic of a new project that will involve much sawing and drilling
> with a bit of Latheing thrown in for good measure


Its been an hour, you must almost be finished?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Its been an hour, you must almost be finished?


:lol znomit

I have not even started yet but I have got a nice freeby waterproof mom switch for it


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

In the words of Rolf Harris in an Ozzy twang....."Do you know what it is yet???"

If you need any aluminium Mr Troutie, let me know...may well be able to locate some of what you want. I've stockpiled a load of offcuts for, er, projects!!!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> In the words of Rolf Harris in an Ozzy twang....."Do you know what it is yet???"
> 
> If you need any aluminium Mr Troutie, let me know...may well be able to locate some of what you want. I've stockpiled a load of offcuts for, er, projects!!!


Even I dont know what it is going to be I did try and do a drawing of what i had in mind 
printed it off , hung it up by my lathe .

Then found out mrs Trout was going out tonight to her mums birthday and I was not invited .

no beer in the house but an indian take away meal left in the microwave .

Now been in the garage for 3 hours and the monster troutelight bears no resemblence to the drawing , apart from it is a triple MCE MR16 Maxflex driven.thing.

Thanks for the offer Mr Deesta we will need them later :ihih:

any luck with the Bflex


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

No joy yet...still with the electronics engineer for inspection 

Triple MCE sounds good!!! No beer....not so good!!!

I've just spent the last 8 hours fitting a kitchen so I'm off for a beer, weel deserved I reckon


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> No joy yet...still with the electronics engineer for inspection
> 
> Triple MCE sounds good!!! No beer....not so good!!!


Managed to find 2 cans of cider  yuk but drank them anyway.

Well had a productive evening in the garage and it is 90% done just need to install the MCE - maxflex - and make a bar clamp temperary fix the optic as I want to get a narrow version to try out before making it permanant.

will be just in time for mondays night ride


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Another lovely looking piece of engineering there 

Can't wait to see the finished item!!!


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Oooh, just noticed...your light is 2 grams lighter when it's facing down! How on earth did you manage that?


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

helium trapped inside the cone shape?


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Well it's undoubtedly due to the rocket-propulsion effect of all those photons shooting out the lens.
In quantum physics we call this phenomenon Gravitational anomaly, or is that Gravitaty anomaly?
Darn, I always get those 2 confused.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Oooh, just noticed...your light is 2 grams lighter when it's facing down! How on earth did you manage that?


I did wonder if someone would notice that

Hootsmon I dont understand any of those links maybe after a few whiskys


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hootsmon I dont understand any of those links maybe after a few whiskys


Haha neither do I troutie, those links are completely bogus. But after all that cider I'm not sure whiskeys would help.


----------



## notaknob (Apr 6, 2004)

*North/South*



hootsmon said:


> Well it's undoubtedly due to the rocket-propulsion effect of all those photons shooting out the lens.
> In quantum physics we call this phenomenon Gravitational anomaly, or is that Gravitaty anomaly?
> Darn, I always get those 2 confused.


You techies always get it wrong.

This is a obviously a result of the cone shape. Considering the fact that in the northern hemisphere, the rotation is in a North-South direction and the direction of fluid flow is from North to South. Items that have a more aerodynamic shape create less drag. Since air is a liquid, the fins on the cone also have a lifting effect similar to a parachute. Based upon the shadows and the time of year it is in the UK, it's easy to discern that in the second picture, the front of the light is facing east, increasing it's drag which imparts a downward push, increasing it's apparent weight.

I think it'd be interesting to test this at a different altitudes/latitudes in conjunction with Cider and a bit of whiskey.


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

another masterpiece troutie :thumbsup: those are lovely switches 

you did remember to put a socket on it? :lol:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Oh Dear I fubared this one*

Well It was all looking great and then it came to fitting it all inside 
and :madman:

I have totally not got enough room inside to fit the switch and maxflex 
and I have slept on the problem and did not dream up a fix 
without remaking the back of the light and some how it was going to be a load of extra machining

Then a bit of reading on here and :idea: bingo as if if was fate
Mofokis mag mod thread suddenly appears bumped up by adrenaljunky so i go to the begining and see the same optic that I am using . I have had an old maglight hanging around for ages just waiting for a mod .

This is perfect as I was going to have to put a clear face on the triple build because of the holes down the middle of the optic I did not want to fill with dirt .

so off to try the old mag mod and see if it can cope with the heat from 3 mces


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

It will be very interesting to see just how much weight you can take out of that mag light. They sure are over engineered!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> It will be very interesting to see just how much weight you can take out of that mag light. They sure are over engineered!


This one will be tried as is Cos I need it for a ride tonight then it may go on a diet later.

I just looked on fleabay and c maglights are only £10 , It is cheaper than a piece of stock aluminum the same size .

and makes for an easy build


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

> I have totally not got enough room inside to fit the switch and maxflex


I blame the cider


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Where did you get your switch from?? Looks a bit lower profile than the one I'm using..


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Where did you get your switch from?? Looks a bit lower profile than the one I'm using..


Hi Steve the switch came from here

http://www.apem.co.uk/pushbutton.html

I blame the cider too it was awefull and it compelled me to drink it

But I had cocked up before any drinking


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Thanks Chris,

I've just filled out a sample form, you never know!!! BTW, did you get the shotbalst sample I sent you anodised?


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Here it is the worlds first triple MR16 - MCE bike light

maybe it belongs in the Fugly light thread



















with beam shot but no hat or buckets this time 
van @ 100 metres away 









and my favourite bike light the rocket yet again


----------



## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Spectacular beamshots Mr Trout.
After admiring those I've decided to order one of those Rocket optics too.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

hootsmon said:


> Spectacular beamshots Mr Trout.
> After admiring those I've decided to order one of those Rocket optics too.


Hoots I hope it is the SS you have gone for 
It is the best of the bunch I have tested .
funny how the triple is not 3 times better than the single


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Nothing FUGLY about that one

Great beamshots too...Looks like you've got steam coming out of the lefthand side of your handlebar though


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Nothing FUGLY about that one
> 
> Great beamshots too...Looks like you've got steam coming out of the lefthand side of your handlebar though


Ha Ha yes I saw that when I got home that was when it fell over and cut a little plug of turf

It is still in there now


----------



## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

Mr troutie does it again








Any idea how much current youre drawing from it


----------



## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*how's the maxflex running on high?*

Wondering how long you can run it on high (even w/ good air flow). I'm having trouble running my Death Ray (http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=436375) at max power (1200ma) for an extended time. I have the maxflex attached to a chunk of aluminum which is fastened to back plate/handlebar mount. I also added a piece of aluminum on top of the switcher chip so it contacts the housing. With a fan blowing directly on the housing, no problem. If there's no airflow, the chip (not the heat detection!) cuts out around 4 minutes (not from led heat...well not directly). I had a long email exchange w/ George, and he basically said I'm pushing the driver (specifically the switcher chip) past what it can handle (2.5W of heat). Basically, the junction temp in the chip is exceeding 125C. So I'm having to run it at 1000ma (500ma per led) so it's less likely to overheat the chip. If the temp cut out is set at 60C and I'm run at 1200ma, the chip cuts out (emergency low, not L3). Running at 1000ma, the driver properly trips the temp cut out and goes L3. Anyway, just wondering if you are seeing similar issues. Maybe the VF of the Q5's is that much higher than the MC-E.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Cytoe 

I have not done an extended full power run test yet just one on the bench in still air 
to check if the thermal cut out was working and it seemed normal 
4 mins to dim .
but it has got a lot of mass to heat up 

I dont know your VF but mine on full was 18.63 v 
I am guessing yours is over 20 v

My maxflex is fitted in the back of the plug that the led stars are fitted to 

so from the switcher chip to the leds there is 20 mm of solid aluminium and 4 mm air 

It is virtually potted to the heatsink .

It is going to get an aluminium bar clamp as I dont think the plastic one is strong enough 
so that will also get some heat away to the bars 

So as yet no problems but will report after a few longer rides


----------



## rollertoaster (Jun 11, 2007)

troutie,

you are driving the mc-e's with a maxflex? which maxflex are you using? how are they wired? I'm guessing 3 parallel mc-e's in series with each other. Are you getting 600ma per die to the led's? Do you have any pictures of the mounting of the led's? I'm trying to copy your design. My unused maglite is about to go under the knife.

pardon all the questions, I'm new to all of this.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

rollertoaster said:


> troutie,
> 
> you are driving the mc-e's with a maxflex? which maxflex are you using? how are they wired? I'm guessing 3 parallel mc-e's in series with each other. Are you getting 600ma per die to the led's? Do you have any pictures of the mounting of the led's? I'm trying to copy your design. My unused maglite is about to go under the knife.
> 
> pardon all the questions, I'm new to all of this.


Rollertoaster

It is a maxflex 2 
the mce`s are each wired 2s2p and then in series giving 2 strings of 6 leds 
maxflex set at 1200ma so each string gets 600ma

Sadly no pics of the construction as it was a rush job but it is basically a copy of 
this build .
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=357346&page=3

only using the MCE`s


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*temp cut out?*

Hey Troutie, what's your temp cut out set to? I'm running a Maxflex3...sadly the the additional thermal enhancements didn't really help (from Maxflex2). I'll take a pic of how mines mounted...I'm wondering if the Shark driver's switcher chip has a higher junction temp.


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> Hey Troutie, what's your temp cut out set to? I'm running a Maxflex3...sadly the the additional thermal enhancements didn't really help (from Maxflex2). I'll take a pic of how mines mounted...I'm wondering if the Shark driver's switcher chip has a higher junction temp.


I think it is set for 60 degrees

I wish I had a thermometer as I can get up inbetween the maxflex and the leds 
up the mounting bolt hole so it would give me a good idea how hot things are in there .


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

How about one of these troutie Multimeter with temp under £20 from CPC


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Whoa , way to go Dweeby , just cant resist
> are you a salesman , you sweet talking :crazy:  ( sold the idea to the missus )
> 
> :drumroll: cant wait to see some pics how you are going to do it.
> ...


Sorry for going so far back, but does this type of swivel give you any ideas?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

gmcttr said:


> Sorry for going so far back, but does this type of swivel give you any ideas?


Thanks gmcttr

Yes it does give me ideas lots of them idea:

:arf: now where were you with these pics about 500 posts ago :arf:

What is it


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Thanks gmcttr
> 
> Yes it does give me ideas lots of them idea:
> 
> ...


I guess I wasn't paying attention back then.

It is a high end spotting scope stand made specifically for rifle competition.

Now if you would just send me one of the lights when you get them done....


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Nice . The stem light has been retired for the time being because of the adjustability problems which something like that could solve .

:madman: Damn just when you thought that was the end along comes another :idea: 

:thumbsup:


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

Just trying to keep you up at nights.


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hoots I hope it is the SS you have gone for
> It is the best of the bunch I have tested .
> funny how the triple is not 3 times better than the single


Chris thanks for the tip, and yes it's the SS that I ordered.

Also, I can't remember where I read this info, but I _believe_ the human-eye's perception of brightness is non-linear, and it's more likely logarithmic. In that case, quad MC-Es would only appear around (say) twice as bright as a single. Which would fit your observations if it were true. I'll try and read up on this.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Looks like you have a new driver on the way Troutie which will run the MC-E at full noise. None of this weak 600mA/die rubbish. 
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=211971&page=2


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Good news & not so good news*

 Lets get the good news out of the way first 

I have been beavering away at a piece of ali rescued from the countless bits I have scattered around my garage floor ( really must have a tidy up )

It started of I was going to make a bar clamp because I did not trust the plastic one to be strong enough it was going to be 2 halves bolted together but morphed into this hybrid quick release Just in time for this evenings ride with my light test dummy mate .










This has been the best upgrade to this light ever . The difference it has made to how hot or not as is the result is staggering . 
I fully expected the maxflex to dim on the slow stuff as had happened in my static tests 
but my quad helmet light dimmed and the triple mce did not I had to check it was on full 
yes . all ride it worked never dimming at all . compared to the helmet light which dimmed 4 times .

I never bothered using any lower settings the whole ride which was 2.5 hours ride time 
except on the road out and back

:thumbsup: so well pleased :thumbsup:

We got to the trailhead and off we went my mate was using my Rocket MCE and ledil square MCE lights on his bars 
I was using the triple mce on my bars .
This was where I find out the camera lies . and maybe there should be a camera setting 
ammendment for very bright lights as it looked better on the photo than on the trail when riding.

First impresions were wow lots of light followed a few hundred metres later but it is in the wrong place . way too floody I want some to go down the trail . then my mate comes past on an overtake  and his 2 mce lights are shining straight down the trail .wow 
I want mine to be like that .

That is the not so good news .

The good think about the mag lite host is it is easy to change optics .
so the search goes on .

Might see if I can fit 3 of the rocket optics in there .


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Very impressive Mr T....sounds like it's coming together really well now. It's surprising how the simplist thing can make all the difference


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

That bar clamp rocks :thumbsup: another cool mod. You'll get there in the end Mr T


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> Looks like you have a new driver on the way Troutie which will run the MC-E at full noise. None of this weak 600mA/die rubbish.
> http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=211971&page=2


:thumbsup:

Yes now I have seen this I am hoping we are going to see this 
hyperflex this winter Then what will the crazies:crazy: want to build next


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

smudgemtbuk said:


> That bar clamp rocks :thumbsup: another cool mod. You'll get there in the end Mr T


Cheers smudge 
I dont think I really want to get there 
I enjoy the journey too much


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## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

'The road is lo-o-ong, with many a winding turn...blah blah blah...he aint heavy, he's my MCE headlight!!!'


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

deesta said:


> 'The road is lo-o-ong, with many a winding turn...blah blah blah...he aint heavy, he's my MCE headlight!!!'


:ciappa: :band: :smilewinkgrin:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Maglite-MCE on trail video*

Ok Folks 
Showing untill the bandwidth runs out

this was the setup









Large file but better quality video

please right click and save target , to help me out.

https://www.penninelrc4x4.co.uk/VIDEOS/maglite-MCE.wmv

This is not bad for a true view of what I see when riding
Sorry there is no rider to follow but I got some choice comments when I suggested a 5.30 am night ride

There is even a bit of road in for comparison plus at the end 
what an approaching car driver sees at 200 metres ( not alot ) afterwards


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Fantastic video mate. Thanks for taking the time to put it together :thumbsup: 

It certainly doesn't look as bright as the beam shots indicate. Just like you say, the close up spill is excellent but the projection down the trail isn't quite optimized yet

p.s Nice trails too. Smooth and flowing unlike the rock gardens I call home.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Cheers Salty.

No the still camera is lieing at those settings 
the movie is quite good and lifelike . I am also surprised at the quality with the camera on the bars I have never used it on the bars allways on the helmet . .

The light is loads better with out the bumps on the optic I also have a few more ideas to try out It just needs one MCE to have a really tight spot down the middle of the beam and I think I will have it nailed ..

Watch this space


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Nice vid Mr Troutie. I enjoyed the fast downhill run. Also, I thought the lighting was very impressive on the downhill bitumen stretch. Well done!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhh*

:yikes: What ever you do DO NOT WIPE AN OPTIC WITH A SOLVENT OF ANY KIND :yikes:

:cryin:I have just watched my MR16 optic turn in to acrylic gravel .:cryin:

I was trying to clean some glue from it with a solvent based glue remover
put some on a soft cloth and wiped it on the optic , great the glue just came right off so using the same cloth I wiped all the greasy fingermarks off too 
polished it up with a nice clean cloth ready to put back into the light .

1 minute later I thought it looked strange it had billions of little cracks appearing inside the plastic 5 mins later it was in little bits .

I would have shown a picture but anger got the better of me and it got thrown in the bin .

So that is my triple MCE grounded untill I get another optic :cryin:


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> :yikes: What ever you do DO NOT WIPE AN OPTIC WITH A SOLVENT OF ANY KIND :yikes:


I think rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) would probably be safe.

Another plastic part on your bike that hates harsh chemicals is lexan type bashguards - dries them out and cracks them eventually.


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## MoMaTo (Nov 26, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> It will be very interesting to see just how much weight you can take out of that mag light. They sure are over engineered!


A lot! If I remember correctly, I got mine down to half... I think 80 grams (head alone).

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=461072


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> :yikes: What ever you do DO NOT WIPE AN OPTIC WITH A SOLVENT OF ANY KIND :yikes:


Thanks for the tip, and we're sympathising!


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## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

syadasti said:


> I think rubbing alcohol (isopropanol) would probably be safe.
> 
> Another plastic part on your bike that hates harsh chemicals is lexan type bashguards - dries them out and cracks them eventually.


Methanol should be ok too. Acetone is usually the one to avoid.


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## bwilli (Apr 3, 2006)

*Organic Solvent + Acrylic = Bad Things*

DO NOT USE ANY ORGANIC SOLVENTS ON ACRYLIC BASED PLASTICS.

Organic solvents will crack these plastics. The stuff troutie used was probably a xylene or tolulene product. Those are super strong solvents and that led to the utter annihilation of his optic. Rubbing alcohol will not cause such a catastrophic destruction of the lens, but will cause "crazing", or zillions of microscopic cracks, in the surface of the plastic. In either case your lens is toast.

IPA of <24% is OK for short term contact at room temperature. The IPA in a bottle is usually 70%.

Stick to warm soap and water if you can.


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## syadasti (Apr 20, 2004)

bwilli said:


> Rubbing alcohol will not cause such a catastrophic destruction of the lens, but will cause "crazing", or zillions of microscopic cracks, in the surface of the plastic. In either case your lens is toast.
> 
> IPA of <24% is OK for short term contact at room temperature. The IPA in a bottle is usually 70%.
> 
> Stick to warm soap and water if you can.


That is what I originally assumed but someone at a light maker was telling me they use 100% Iso and its fine. I'll avoid it on anything but brake rotors I guess

I used warm water and soft cloth last time I had to clean my LED lens to play it safe.


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## smudgemtbuk (Jul 13, 2008)

OMG troutie







Got to say guys I had the pleasure to see it working last night and it must be the most impressivley brightest light Mr T has built, i'm sure the police helicopter flying over 10 mins later had nothing to do with it :lol:

cant you put a buffer on the dremmel to polish the optic back up again?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

smudgemtbuk said:


> cant you put a buffer on the dremmel to polish the optic back up again?


You have got to have on optic to polish this is in little bits .

I am still stunned at the speed of the destruction

It was going to be replaced but I would have liked the new one first .

Oh well maybe the Ledil EVA will be dropping through my door soon .

anyone heard anything from Cutters yet


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

troutie-mtb said:


> Oh well maybe the Ledil EVA will be dropping through my door soon .
> anyone heard anything from Cutters yet


No word on EVAs yet. I did phone Cutters late last week, but Mark was overseas at the time and otherwise no exciting news to report.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

This is a pretty dumb thing to do Troutie. 
More dumberer is doing it twice like I did!!!! :madman: 
Does it have pretty cracks in it like mine do?

Annoying thing was I knew about this even before the first episode. Something about little gaps in the acrylic that are left over from when it began life as pellets or part of the casting process. The alcohol works its way into the little gaps.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

znomit said:


> This is a pretty dumb thing to do Troutie.
> More dumberer is doing it twice like I did!!!! :madman:
> Does it have pretty cracks in it like mine do?
> 
> Annoying thing was I knew about this even before the first episode. Something about little gaps in the acrylic that are left over from when it began life as pellets or part of the casting process. The alcohol works its way into the little gaps.


Ah so I am not alone in dumb disasters .

No pretty cracks it just fell apart


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## Pitto (Sep 26, 2005)

sorry read your post.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Is this a good thing or bad*

Smudge dropped by on sat night to have a look and brought a meter with temp sensing .
So I drilled a 3mm hole into the heatsink 2 mm away from the back of one of the MCE .to put the probe in

The object was to see how hot the leds got when the Maxflex tripped .

The maxflex is attached to the back of the led heatsink and is 14 mm away from the leds

So we had the Maxflex set to 60c trip and switched on it took quite a while as there is a good mass to heat up . when the maxflex dimmed the reading on the meter by the leds was 38c

this was repeated 3 times after cooling .

then we set the Maxflex to 70 c 
and when tripped the meter by the leds read 44 c .
again repeated another couple of times with the same result.

Now I am trying to get my head round if this is good or not so good .
and would like a few opinions please


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## sxr-racer (Nov 17, 2005)

that sucks brother...........


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## neilt (Apr 7, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Now I am trying to get my head round if this is good or not so good .
> and would like a few opinions please


That is very strange because the aluminium block shouldn't have much of a temperature gradient across it. And one would expect the area around the LEDs to be the hottest place anyway. Any chance of getting the thermocouple to where the Maxflex is mounted?

Neil.


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*question..*

did the maxflex dim to L3 or emergency low?


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

So if it's not the MCE's overheating the driver..... then it's simply the board getting too hot whilst driving the MCE's  Or am I way off base here?

What battery is the trout light running off?


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## GMF (Jan 10, 2004)

troutie-mtb said:


> So we had the Maxflex set to 60c trip and switched on it took quite a while as there is a good mass to heat up . when the maxflex dimmed the reading on the meter by the leds was 38c.
> 
> then we set the Maxflex to 70 c
> and when tripped the meter by the leds read 44 c .
> ...


What are you concerned about? The difference between the heatsink and the maxflex trip temperature? Or...? 
You have a big physical loop between what you want to control and what you are actually controlling - the only way to really know is to measure at the LED. I looked through the thread a bit and tried to find pictures of the guts and how it is all held together, but didn't see anything.

How does the heat have to pass from the quad die inside the LED to the heatsink?
How does the heat have to pass from the heatsink to the control point on the maxflex?

Your main points of investigation will be how well the heat gets from the LED to the heatsink and then from the heatsink to the maxflex.

However, having said that, i've seen 20C-40C differences between LEDs and heatsinks on reasonably well designed lighting systems before. Assuming a quality thermal connection between the LEDs and the heatsink, the aluminum will burn you (leave blisters) before you've cooked the LEDs. Nothing is clearly wrong, but it is hard to say with the limited information presented...

Good luck, and nice designs!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe said:


> did the maxflex dim to L3 or emergency low?


It dimmed to L3 And took no more than 45 seconds before it would let me go to hi again .

It has never dimmed when riding even on the granny ring climbs .

My thoughts are the maxflex is doing a great job of protecting itself and will trip well before the leds get too hot.

GMF 
Thanks I will try with a bit more info

the mce are on stars screwed and thermal pasted to the heatsink .with the backs of the stars lapped and also the heatsink lapped 
so I would say a good path

then from the leds to the maxflex is 12 mm of aluminium with the maxflex glued to a copper tab fixed to the heatsink with arctic alumina .

I quess what I am wanting to know is should I put the maxflex on to a different part of the housing further away from the leds

This one is a bit of a testbed and I have another maglite to build a better one so really wanted the advise for that build .

Battery is 14.8 v li ion


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## Peter_JS (Jan 17, 2008)

Hi Trout,

One of a few possible problems:
1) MaxFlex protecting itself (ie getting hot in isolation),
2) You're not measuring the LED temp properly
3)... something else.

(1) and (2) can be easily worked out by using the finger test. Alu conducts heat pretty well, particularly large blocks of it like that. Stick you finger on it. If really 70C, you will not be able to keep your paw on it for more than 1sec without saying "youch", and running around waving your finger :nono: . 44C on the other hand will feel moderately warm. I suspect this will tell you which measurement is stretching the truth...

(3) something pretty unlikely like: LED's not actually thermally conducting well to the Alu, and you used nice thick copper leads, which are conducting heat to the Maxflex from the LEDs....(hey I said unlikey!)

Peter


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi peter.
1/ I think you are correct

2/ the probe was maximum 2 mm from an mce inside the heatsink .

finger test at its hottest was a nice hand warmer .

the second 3 / I am pretty obsesive about the heat transfer so am happy on that count .

I am 2 hours in to a runtime test on the triple .










the Maxflex has not tripped yet , I cannot measure the ambient but it is indoors and I am comfortable in a tshirt.

I think I am very happy with the way things are working except the optics .


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## big-ted (Oct 16, 2005)

Do you have good thermal contact between the probe and the LED? 2mm of air is still 2mm of air...


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Battery is 14.8 v li ion


And what did you measure the Vf for the MCE's at? I am just trying to get a handle on how much power the maxflex is having to dissapate due to voltage differences. I know you normally get them very close so it is unlikely to be the problem but worth considering.....

Bring on the hipflex:thumbsup:


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

salty
the vf of the setup is 18.63v

current draw from the battery was 1.44A

and ful to empty runtime on max power 1200ma 
so each string seeing 600ma 

battery started @ 16.83 v

and died @ 12 v when the protection circuit kicked in 
the light ran for the duration with out dimming no temp as smudge took his meter back .

It ran for 2 hours 49mins 

battery 14.8 liion 4400mah


----------



## deesta (Sep 7, 2008)

Hi Chris,

What camera did you use to do the video?? It'd really good quality


----------



## SkUG (Feb 19, 2008)

now i want a camera too!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

deesta said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> What camera did you use to do the video?? It'd really good quality


I have had it for about 5 years now 
it came from here

http://www.rfconcepts.co.uk/helmet_cameras.htm

No idea which now except it was the best they did then .

Really cool but you can get bored with rear views of riders though


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*new project started*

While I wait for the Boom reflectors to arrive hope fully before Santa visits

I have started a mk 2 version of the Maglite .
You can pick up used mags on ebay cheap now and when you have used the head and a bit of the tube and tailcap there is still enough to make a couple of MR11 lights .

These are the bits I am using , the head and tail plus the plug for the heatsink










Now I am lucky to have the lathe and have never done any screw cutting so this was a good time to have a go it was done with a bit of trial and error on a scrap bit of ali first 
then time to have a go on the tail section of the mag .
I was very pleased to get a result that actually screwed into the head fantastic

next was to turn down a piece for the heatsink this is 25 mm deep and I will divulge why so large later .

I had been talking to my bro who is an engineer and he suggested an interference fit for the slug so always wanting to try some thing new here goes .

I know nothing about the sizes and expansion of a part so again trial and error 
turn a thou off , heat the tube with a heat gun burn hands through gloves , see if it fits .
and repeat until a snug fit is doable .










Right now it was time to go for it vise ready heat sink in the freezer . tube heating in front of the heat gun . I did consider using thermal compound also but abandoned that .

this is where 3 hands would have been good so the very cold thing is pushed into the very hot tube as in the pic . success










Great I love it when a plan works .

so next to screw the head on ready to machine it all nice and flat for the leds .

Wrong the slug is such a good fit that the threads no longer screw in to the head Oh s**t
a bit more trial and error and recut the thread for a fit . next time put the slug in then cut the thread.

I wanted to thermal glue the two parts together so mixed thermal paste with jbweld epoxy as a cheaper method to arctic alumina , I have heard this works ok dont know if I would use it for leds though.


















The inside of the tail just happens to be the same diameter as George said his HipFlex was , 
You can see where this is going I think


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> You can see where this is going I think


Another epically long thread that goes for months before the parts arrive ???  :thumbsup: 

Great description and write up on the mag mod! Some really impressive ideas and design going into this one!


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Another epically long thread that goes for months before the parts arrive ???  :thumbsup:


:lol: That was not the plan but maybe true :lol:


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Well the Magtroutlite has stalled due to no leds yet . this was a customer light and I expect to be badgered soon by him for the delay.

Any way off on another tack .

You may remember this housing 









I started ages ago when I got a bandsaw well I have been inspired by Saltys cool build mixing MCE and XRE leds to good effect so after much thought I decided to give it a go
and finish what I started .

It was always going to have the driver,s in a seperate housing or the battery pack .
and it is still in its infancy so am open to suggestions.










The logical thing would be to follow Saltys way . , But the Trout has never been logical so it has gon off on a tangent . and also because I have been championing using the bars for the heat sink this way would be ideal .










The 2 light heads will lose some more metal when I have repaired my crappy minimill 
I think I overloaded the cheese drive when using the 30 mm hole saw to cut the bar recesses out so it is mend it or get the files and dremmel out .:madman:

They are going to be held on with the Dinotte style orings

The question now is what do I put in to the 2 heads 
Ok there will be an MCE in each I am limited to 20 mm stuff here .


----------



## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Trout, I love the bar as heatsinking... awesome way to keep size/mass of the housing down when pushing high power. As for the 20mm problem, you could try modded IMS 20 reflectors. I really like the beam it gives for bar use (still to floody for helmet) and based on Sir Achesalot's beamshots the IMS out throws the Boom selections. The work to mod the IMS reflectors might not be worth it though... with 2 single die emitters to help with the spot you won't have as big a problem with the throw. We'll enjoy watching it happen, whatever you decide to do!

Steve


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Changed my mind yet again*

Now with the demise of the cheese drive cogs in my minimill I have started again with this project and the earlier ones have gone back in the pending box for now.

It was easier to to start again and do some of the work on the lathe .

I have kept with the 20 mm size because the whole idea is to have tiny but powerfull lights 
and keep my options a bit more open .

so here is the first of a pair roughed out and ready for some sanding and trimming


















So the decision next is what to put in these lights 
1 MCE and 1 R2 in each .
1 mce and 1 triple xpe

or totaly over the top and 4 MCE powered from 1 Hipflex in my stem like my very origanal idea


----------



## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> So the decision next is what to put in these lights
> 1 MCE and 1 R2 in each .
> 1 mce and 1 triple xpe
> 
> or totaly over the top and 4 MCE powered from 1 Hipflex in my stem like my very origanal idea


I vote for the 1 MCE + 1 triple XPE combo having never seen a beam pattern from the carlco 18 degree lens. It sounds like it will add some punch to the MCE but not leave so much of a hotspot that it drowns out the MCE flood.

It's a real pity that the khatod 10 degree 25mm lens is a quad, not a triple.

Of course, there is no reason why you couldn't build it with and 8 degree r2 + triple xpe r2 in 2s2p and then wire 2s2p for the 2 x boom MCe and drive the whole lot with the hipflex.

Oh the possiblities


----------



## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Sounds like there are a few more combinations out there to think about.

Is there any reason not to use 4 XPE in paralell and treat them as 1 MCE along side some other MCE


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## Snowdawg (Nov 5, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> The 2 light heads will lose some more metal when I have repaired my crappy minimill
> I think I overloaded the cheese drive when using the 30 mm hole saw to cut the bar recesses out so it is mend it or get the files and dremmel out .:madman:


Troutie...not sure if this will work for you machine or not.
I use an older 2 speed version of this on my minimill and it works beautifully.

http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=3488&category=1057823482

It save me from throwing into the dumpster.


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

troutie-mtb said:


> Sounds like there are a few more combinations out there to think about.
> 
> Is there any reason not to use 4 XPE in paralell and treat them as 1 MCE along side some other MCE


Realistically, I think you would have to measure the Vf of 4x XPE vs 4 MCE dies before that can be answered. You could probably sort out and discrepancies with a couple of resistors to get things nice and balanced.


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## stevemorg (Nov 23, 2008)

Troutie,

am I the customer who should be badgering you for the quad MCE?

I didn't expect anything until after Christmas - would be good to know what sort of battery (ie how much) I'll need off Smudge though - he said he'd be in touch with you

have a good Christmas!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

stevemorg said:


> Troutie,
> 
> am I the customer who should be badgering you for the quad MCE?


Ok that is christmas over so now to carry on with steves mag mod.
This is inspired by Saltys duster light but in one host .
Hopefully the best of both worlds in flood and penetration and not too heavy on the battery.

2 MCE in Boom SS reflectors and 2 R2 s in Ledil LC1 ss optics


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## stevemorg (Nov 23, 2008)

Troutie,

that is VERY nice - it looks ideal!

will it run with a Smudge pack or do I need to order another?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

stevemorg said:


> Troutie,
> 
> that is VERY nice - it looks ideal!
> 
> will it run with a Smudge pack or do I need to order another?


Hell Steve you were fast with a reply.
I am not sure yet on how I am driving this wee beasty yet . will probably be 2 drivers , 
Maxflex for the MCE and buckpuck for the R2s this will give a bit more control options .

Znomit suggested a way on cpf just using the maxflex :thumbsup: thanks Tim 
but I think I need a wiring diagram to get it right in my head


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## stevemorg (Nov 23, 2008)

cheers Trout - look forward to what happens next!


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Oh Dear !!! Why !!!*

:nonod: Some times you do something and at the time it seems like it is a good idea 
then you get that sinking feeling in your stomach and after stareing at it you realise you have been a bit foolish..:nonod:

Well I had this :idea: that it would be best to get bare MCE and no stars for this build and one for me later , now as I look at it I am wondering how with my failing eyes and banana fingers am I going to solder these up .

I have had to make a 2 level spacer /heatsink because the optics are higher than the boom reflectors .


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

Troutie, is this any help .... see how he gets round it

.... http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=216623


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

HEY HEY ITS HENDO said:


> Troutie, is this any help .... see how he gets round it
> 
> .... https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=216623


That is brilliant HHHendo
that is what Iwould like to achieve

It is gonna be a toughie though I will have to upgrade my irons to these modern ones


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Well that was a bit Tense*

 That was a testing hour but I enjoyed every minute and the bare MCE is far easier to solder to than the XRE


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

*troutie-mtb, *you are a genius!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## gillestugan (Nov 12, 2008)

That's what I call a star! Looks like a throwing star. Do you really need two XR-Es for throw when you already have two MC-Es on a throwing star?
Sorry, bad joke but I couldn't resist


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

OOPS double posted


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Full Beamshot added WoW That is ace*



gillestugan said:


> That's what I call a star! Looks like a throwing star. Do you really need two XR-Es for throw when you already have two MC-Es on a throwing star?
> Sorry, bad joke but I couldn't resist


:lol: Ha Ha

Thanks MSXTR but it was easier than I ever imagined

looking at some early beamshots and yep it does need the throwers.

I have got the front end nearly done and had to see if they worked ( Edited ) I cobbled a driver for the XREs so I could get a beam from 
the whole light .

here are a couple of shots with its brother on my bike


















2 XRE with LC 1 - RS & SS optics










2 MCE with Boom SS reflectors










XRE on full and MCE on full ...I can only say WOW and that is the desired effect , I luv it


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

Nice work Mr Trout! Mixing the R2's with the MCE's certainly gives the best of both worlds.


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## il2mb (Jan 27, 2005)

Great coverage!

I got a similiar affect last night when I took my 2 x MC-E for a ride. I thought I would slap a 2 x R2 light head on the bars along side the MC-E for some extra punch. The dual MC-E head has Ledil (CMC) one smooth spot and one diffused. The R2 had a couple of Ledil SS optics. I didn't take the camera along so I don't have any pics. The combination of punch and coverage was incredible.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

ocean breathes salty said:


> Nice work Mr Trout! Mixing the R2's with the MCE's certainly gives the best of both worlds.


Thanks Salty My first impresion was wow that is so much better when doing the beamshot and then I switched the mce to high and it was amazing.

Hows the duster light performing You must have a few rides on it now.

il2mb
Any pics of the lights Would like to see them . 
and some beamshots nexttime :thumbsup:
I think a perfect light would be an achesalot design with 1 mce and 1 R2 running from a Maxflex and a 11.1 li ion pack .


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## jglandau (Dec 23, 2007)

*MC-E, XR-E combo*

Very impressive, Troutie!

What drivers / battery pack are you using for the MC-E / XR-E combo?

I'm in process of building a 6 * XR-E R2 unit with two 6 degree, two 8 degree, and two 16 degree optics... I'm curious how this would compare with regard to beam pattern.

I'm going to use the heatsink from a memory cooler that has dimensions of 24mm x 125mm that's attached to a copper heat pipe that then attaches to fins to dissipate the heat.

Thanks for all your posts!

Sincerely,
Joel


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

jglandau said:


> Very impressive, Troutie!
> 
> What drivers / battery pack are you using for the MC-E / XR-E combo?
> 
> ...


Cheers Joel
I have used a Bflex to drive the 2 MCE these are underdriven @ 500ma so could have gone brighter but I think it is pretty bright and less heat .

the R2s are driver with a 1000ma buck driver no dimming just on or off.

battery is 14.9 li ion pack

Your set up sounds good should have a good beam looking forward to seeing it soon


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Well troutie-mtb you have excellent skills building bike lights! awesome stuff! :thumbsup: 
I just had to read the entire topic when I was looking for some more info on doing my first CREE MC-E bike light project. 

I'm very noob at this high power led lighting, and after much research and reading I have lots of questions  
First the core to make the light happen, then the casing. LEDS would be 2xCREE MC-E. They run at 700mA and 3,4V max which makes 2.38 Watts. Are these numbers for all four LED cores or do I need to multiply something by 4? 

If I run the 2 LEDS all in series I would need 6,8Volts and 700mA from batteries, is this correct?

What kind of batteries shall I use to power these 2 LEDS? And what kind of I driver? I would like dimming capability what’s the best driver to run the 2 LEDS independently? 
I’ve been looking for the 18650 batteries people say they are very good (3.6V and 2400mA) but it would overpower the LED or the driver?

Sorry for the lots of questions. 
Thanks.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Is there anyone kind enough to enlighten my doubts?
I need to light up 2xCREE MC-E LEDs the correct way. I've been drawing the casing in my mind and It will be very simple.
thanks


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Hi Sergio. I haven't worked with MC-Es myself, but from reading things here, I think the 3.4v number you mentioned is for _each_ of the four dies that make up the LED, so the total voltage is between 12v and 13v.

I'll let someone with more MC-E knowledge jump in and recommend a good, simple battery and driver combination for you.

JZ


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

sergio_pt said:


> Is there anyone kind enough to enlighten my doubts?
> I need to light up 2xCREE MC-E LEDs the correct way. I've been drawing the casing in my mind and It will be very simple.
> thanks


MC-Es are like 4 LEDs in 1 package. The electrical specs are for each LED (die). You can connect them in series, parallel, or series/parallel. Each of these arrangements has different electrical requirements. With 2xMC-E you have more choices as the pair can be series or parallel



> If I run the 2 LEDS all in series I would need 6,8Volts and 700mA from batteries, is this correct?


No, 2 MC-Es all in series would require ~27.2V and 700mA


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

If you wired 2 together in Series which are wired all 4 LED's with 1 input wire say for the sake of ease, then you've been 7.2V and it'd draw at 2800ma's.

2x18650's and a simple switch and direct drive should work.


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## Vancbiker (May 25, 2005)

Turveyd said:


> If you wired 2 together in Series which are wired all 4 LED's with 1 input wire say for the sake of ease, then you've been 7.2V and it'd draw at 2800ma's.
> 
> 2x18650's and a simple switch and direct drive should work.


This would be a 4P2S configuration. With 2 18650s you would have 8V+ fresh off the charger. I suspect direct drive would likely toast the LED fairly quickly. Also your runtime would be less than 1 hour.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

thanks for the input guys. I was needing some advice.

For the best option, and not having high voltage/short current or low voltage/hight current, I think the MCE cores should be connected 4S and the two chips in parallel, to make 13,8Volt and 1,4Amps 8 (wich is a lot of power to suck from batteries indeed...) 
I've read somewhere the connection in parallel is not recommended.

Which batteries are you guys using?


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Hi Sergio and congratulations on reading this thread all the way 

there are so many ways to power 2 MCE`s .
A Maxflex and 7.2 volt or 11.1 volt lithion ion battery with the dies wired 4s -2p will work but full power will be 600ma per die.

A Bflex or Buckpuck and a 14.4 volt lithium ion battery with the dies wired 4s - 2p will also work but at 500ma per die will be full power.

A Hipflex and 11.1 volt or 14.4 volt li ion battery with the dies wired 4p - 2s is ideal and can use full 700 ma allowed.

All these methods have been tried and work well with the hipflex being the best but most expensive method.

with all the drivers above except the buckpuck you have the advantage of thermal monitoring of the light housing which is a huge benefit and highly recomended.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

awesome help troutie thanks. Now I know how to power up the project! 
I'll get a hipflex driver so I can play at maximum LED capacity. I see hipflex doesnt have diming capability with a potentiometer but it has many levels of light so it shouldnt be a big problem. Probably there should also be a workarround to connect a pot to the driver but I'll check that later.
I'll be ordering all the parts in the next days, so its time to think about a cooling system...


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

Sergio
All the *****Flex drivers have a computer on board so you can dial in the light levels you need and control it with a single switch no pots needed .

They are the Creme de la Creme of drivers .

all the information you will ever need is on this forum and if you cant find it just ask and someone will help out , they are quite a friendly bunch if a bit mad


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

hehe I know not much about electric circuits and electronics. guess I still want to do the things the oldstyle with manual controls...

This heatsink would look pretty awesome for my dual MCE lights.

Himax ACC3922 20mm Ducted Fan Brushless Motor Heat Sink









what do you think?

Using the hipFlex is there any problem if the input current is higher than the output current? 
The technical docs only says that the input Vf must be at least 0.5V above output Vf but nothing about the current, I guess it should be ok with any current.
I think Ive asked about this, but I'm concerned about not frying expensive hardware in the first run. 

EDIT
I'm making a small mistake mA is not the same as mAh. Ok now think I'm safe.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

sergio_pt said:


> hehe I know not much about electric circuits and electronics. guess I still want to do the things the oldstyle with manual controls...
> 
> This heatsink would look pretty awesome for my dual MCE lights.
> 
> ...


Heatsink looks good but you must design in a path to get the heat away from the leds as effiecently as possible.

that is the minimum requirement for the hipflex the .5 volt over the led vf .
it is a step down driver (buck) .

so for your 2 mce wired 4p 2s the vf will be around 7v to 8v so in reality you would need an 11.1 li ion battery pack . 
and the hipflex would need setting on the 2800ma setting so all the dies get 700ma .


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Yep thats it for the volts and currents.

For the LEDs cooling I was thinking of a massive cilinder placed inside the tube glued to the star PCB but then I found better:

Massive Cooling Element for LT-662

Which will fit perfect on the star PCB.










BTW has anyone bought from led-tech.de? Are they safe and fast?


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

troutie-mtb said:


> Hi Sergio and congratulations on reading this thread all the way
> 
> there are so many ways to power 2 MCE`s .
> A Maxflex and 7.2 volt or 11.1 volt lithion ion battery with the dies wired 4s -2p will work but full power will be 600ma per die.
> ...


I've been looking at these numbers again... there are many options.
What are the advantages and disadvantages of running the 2 MC-E 4S2P vs 4P2S vs 2S of 2P2S vs 2S4S (all in series)?
I could use maxflex at 700mA and connect all the cores in series wich would require 27.2V, as its a boost converter I could power it with "any battery" (and favour battery capacity to increase light runtime placing them parallel)?

Using hipflex and the cores 4S2P will require 13.6V and 1400mA.
Using hipflex and the cores 4P2S will require 6.8V and 2800mA.
Do I have the same light output or power eficiency?
The hipflex and 4S2P pattern would need more than 14V from batteries as the driver is step down.
The hipflex and 4P2S pattern would need arround 8V from batteries but sucking more amps.

Is there an optimal eficiency wiring and powering pattern?


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## HEY HEY ITS HENDO (Feb 23, 2008)

> I could use maxflex at 700mA and connect all the cores in series wich would require 27.2V,
> as its a boost converter I could power it with "any battery"
> (and favour battery capacity to increase light runtime placing them parallel)


maxFlex spec. says input voltage must not exceed 24volts

http://www.taskled.com/compare.html


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## Carpathia (Apr 29, 2013)

very cool designs all, been watching this thread from the shadows 
Ive got the engineering part of it sussed (see pic)
but its the electrickery im undecided on. i'm running three CREE MC-E's giving me in theory 12 adressable LED's (4 per die)
what i use to run them and how i wire them up i was hoping that you guys could advise. I've got 6x18650 cell pack built, its just the driver and wiring i'm out at the decision point on








enjoy....
will now duck for cover as the comments come in......

edit:

and no its not a prop from flash gordon movie.....


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