# what to do with our old rock shox, manitou etc...



## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

i have a older Judy T2 that has Englund Total Air. they have seen the last day. i know even with these working, its not the latest and greatest.

is there something we can do with our older rock shox etc? like a spring that is around that fits? and some type of dampen. 

just like a car, a shock and strut....

or just replace the seals on the total air.... easy to do?

any thoughts?

i would like to save this fork... its super nice.


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

Well based on some of the posts here I would have recommended (and tried myself) Hippie Tech but I just read 12 reviews on MTBR and 10 of them were about as bad as reviews get. 

I have 8 or 9 Rock Shox Mag 21s in various iterations (including two Specialized carbon variations and one regular FS) as well as a Mag 20 and would love to have them serviced when the time comes they need overhaul. Surprisingly they do about as well as when new.

Yes - better new stuff out there - but when I want that I'll just ride the 2011 S-Works FSR.

Looking forwared to reading other people's suggestions.


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

CCMDoc said:


> Well based on some of the posts here I would have recommended (and tried myself) Hippie Tech but I just read 12 reviews on MTBR and 10 of them were about as bad as reviews get.


What's up with that? Has anybody used them lately that can verify?


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## CCMDoc (Jan 21, 2010)

girlonbike said:


> What's up with that? Has anybody used them lately that can verify?


I'd like to know too as I have a pile of RS that will certainly need that kind of work at some point in their lives and I'd like to have a reliable, skilled person to do it.

Here is a link to the reviews I mentioned earlier:
Hippie-Tech Fork Suspension Service Shock Upgrade Reviews


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## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

there has to be something we can do with them. i thought they all have the same size san tubes and the bolt at the bottom. i would think some type of spring that is easy to get, a damper (oil or elastomer) and then something on the top to keep it from exploding in our faces!

on these older bikes, i ride them for fun, serious at times. but i know the limits, so these older shocks just need to function, and the best we can... hopfully better than old, or used.....for more harder rides. i ride new mtbs...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

broom..spend some time on eBay...

Kronos Springs Rock Shox 95 97 Judy XC SL 190 Lbs | eBay

There are plenty of parts on there. You can always buy a complete fork and canibilize it for parts.


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## anthonyinhove (Nov 3, 2007)

The Judy T2 isn't a vintage fork, it came out in 1999. It was pretty bad - basically the old Indy internals (yes, that bad) combined with Judy lowers to make it less flexy than an Indy, but still with the same poor-quality action. The fact that you have liked your T2 is I feel sure attributable wholly to the excellent Englund cartridge that the owner wisely substituted for the original internals - are you sure that it can't be repaired/restored?

I don't think the 95-97 springs on eBay will fit a 99 fork. I may be wrong, but I think they changed the shape inside after 98. You also need to be sure that you have adequate damping to control those bouncy springs. For any owner of oldish RockShox, if there is any problem with your existing damper (which is very likely), you will be very unlikely to find a replacement for it.


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## classen (Oct 7, 2009)

girlonbike said:


> What's up with that? Has anybody used them lately that can verify?


I am only conveying my single experience with HT. I'm sure may others have had wonderful experiences, but I really feel that I must air my recent experience with HT.

I sent some SIDs to be serviced, was told by HT they are total crap and not worth servicing, and then got the upsell for a rebuilt set of Reba's. I declined and asked to have my forks sent back. Complete silence from HT...... many emails and phone calls later (no one ever answered the phone so I left many messages) HT finally sent me an email agreeing to send the forks back. I was to pay the return shipping cost. All HT had to do was put my fork in a box and send it to me. More weeks of silence.... I finally gave up and called the local police department to file a theft report. They sent an officer out to talk to HT. My forks were sent the next day.

caveat emptor


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## trodaq (Jun 11, 2011)

^^^^ But other than that. How did it go?


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## girlonbike (Apr 24, 2008)

I love one of the reviewers that had to hire a guy on Hippietech's local CL to "rattle his cages." haha.

Anyhow, thanks for the heads up. After reading those scary reviews, I'm out of there and not looking back. Good luck, Jerry!


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## trodaq (Jun 11, 2011)

I didnt realize those services were available. Good to know.


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## sandmangts (Feb 16, 2004)

I once saw a barstool that was made out of old Manitou double crown forks. It was just about the coolest thing I have ever seen.


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

Those old forks are all easily serviceable. Manuals are freely available on the interwebs. No specialized tools are needed. Parts can be hard to come by, but if you keep up with the maintenance its unlikely anything will wear out except the bushes. I service my daughter's Mag21 every 4-6 months because I run the fork without boots. The oil inside always comes out clean and they perform as good as new.


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

I agree with the last post...all service docs and manuals are available for these forks. I'm not sure what all they sell, but Enduro has seals for the old forks. I have many of the rockshox adn manitous that need rebuilt and will prob. use them when I do (I'lll prob do it myself but theres a local guy that rebuilds shocks for a decent price). I have aquired several rockshox rebuild kits too but I'm not sure yet about the seal material since they have been sitting for so long.
I agrere with the others...my retros are for fun and playing on...anything real seriuos and its a newer bike that can take it.


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## BShow (Jun 15, 2006)

sandmangts said:


> I once saw a barstool that was made out of old Manitou double crown forks. It was just about the coolest thing I have ever seen.


That's an awesome idea. I have a few forks that are hanging on the wall of the garage... I wonder if I can concoct something like that.


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

Here's an example for you......


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

I've always liked this stool idea too....I want to try one that has the forks pointed upside down...with three forks attached to swivel/pivots under the stool, you can create a stool that has tilt adjustment in all directions..it would float dynamically up and down with the travel...let your drunk friend sit on it!!.....great for milking a cow...you dont need to tip the stool....lol


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## bing! (Jul 8, 2010)

I service forks for locals and am very familiar with the Mag series. 

The Mag series are easily user serviceable. Just deflate the fork, pour out the oil and flush the insides with some alcohol and put in new oil to the right level. Regularly changing the oil will get you years of service. I have some original seals with manuals and the literature says that the seals are meant to be used indefinitely. Ive only toasted one set, and those still held their air seal, but was at the point where it was squirting shock oil. 

There are few things to look out for in terms of parts. 

Bushings - unavailable. I buy old forks and keep the bushings and the stanchions as a matched set as spares. Some bushings will come up on eBay every now and then. 

Top cap assembly - I have bought a few new assemblies here and there. Right now, I am able to rebuild the old seals so just keep the new assemblies safely in a drawer 

Main seal - Enduroseal.com sells them. Replacement is straight forward but can be dangerous if you dont have the right tool. Best to leave it to a pro if your not mech inclined. 

Dust wiper - unavailable. You can clean and just reinstall. Fork boots, if you find them, they are also a good alternative. Just remover the wipers and roll with the boots. 

Hope that helps.


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## anthonyinhove (Nov 3, 2007)

I'm not clued up about the Mag 21, so that's really useful information. It makes you wonder why Rockshox ditched such a good design in favour of the Judy, with its bad-quality elastomers and even worse dampers. I think they made the Mag 21 up to 1994 and didn't return to air forks until the SID from late 1997, effectively 98. In between times, the Judy era is a disgrace looking back, especially as the current owners haven't maintained a supply of parts, unlike Marzocchi.

My understanding is that most 95 and 96 Judys are trashed now, even though you can get replacement elastomers or coil springs. The problem is with the damping cartridges, which were initially made of plastic and are usually unrepairable once they burst. From mid 96, they started using alloy cartridges, which were better, but it was 98 before they sold the Judy with a reliable cartridge and by then it was too late to rescue its reputation and the 97/98 dampers will not fit a 95 or 96 Judy owing to different thicknesses. You used to be able to find Risse cartridges on the web, but not any longer and I don't think anybody will sell you a cartridge for a 95/96 Judy right now - hence they are trashed as unrepairable. Considering the classic yellow 96 Judy SL was a top-price fork, there is really no excuse for the poor quality of the internals. 

If any of this is wrong or if you know a source for dampers, I'd be really grateful to hear of it.


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## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

the stool is super sweet. is it ridgid? or have spring... thats the question....


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## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

anthonyinhove said:


> The Judy T2 isn't a vintage fork, it came out in 1999. It was pretty bad - basically the old Indy internals (yes, that bad) combined with Judy lowers to make it less flexy than an Indy, but still with the same poor-quality action. The fact that you have liked your T2 is I feel sure attributable wholly to the excellent Englund cartridge that the owner wisely substituted for the original internals - are you sure that it can't be repaired/restored?
> 
> I don't think the 95-97 springs on eBay will fit a 99 fork. I may be wrong, but I think they changed the shape inside after 98. You also need to be sure that you have adequate damping to control those bouncy springs. For any owner of oldish RockShox, if there is any problem with your existing damper (which is very likely), you will be very unlikely to find a replacement for it.


its a 98 T2. its in the 98 catalog. and i feel that even 91 isnt vintage, so what ev's.

and i agree, the judy is a mid range fork. the englund i wil ltake out and check it out, but it just made me think, we all have these forks, and even buying one on ebay is gonna be a 80% chance it needs a rebuild. and hippie tech is not really something i want to do.

somebody out there has to have an idea to update these old guys....

i also have a RS-1 that i need to do. that one looks easy... but to modernize the internals it would be cool.


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## EBasil (Jan 30, 2004)

The old Manitous are, of course, easy to maintain if you can get your hands on elastomers. My wife uses a set of her original Manitou 1's on her singlespeed, converted over to use the "microcellular" 'thane from the Manitou 5's and with an EFC crown/aluminum steerer. 

A few years ago, the bumpers literally liquified and I had to spend a few hours scraping, cleaning and polishing the internals, before culling though my back of spare parts to discard the other elastomers that were going soft, but it went back together with a new set of bumpers and is the most plush 1.4" of travel you ever did ride...


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## TiGeo (Jul 31, 2008)

bing! said:


> I service forks for locals and am very familiar with the Mag series.
> 
> The Mag series are easily user serviceable. Just deflate the fork, pour out the oil and flush the insides with some alcohol and put in new oil to the right level. Regularly changing the oil will get you years of service. I have some original seals with manuals and the literature says that the seals are meant to be used indefinitely. Ive only toasted one set, and those still held their air seal, but was at the point where it was squirting shock oil.
> 
> ...


He isn't asking about a Mag XX fork, he is asking about a Judy.


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## GTscoob (Apr 27, 2009)

My local bike co-op has a whole box of old springs/seal kits/topcaps etc from older suspension forks. 

If any of you are looking for anything specific, let me know and I can pull the box down and look through it. It's a mishmash of old RS Indy/Judy parts and older Marz/Manitou parts. Along with a ton of Fox rear coils of different weights and lengths, probably for older shorter travel shocks. 

I'm in Atlanta and can ship if you're willing to cover shipping and throw a donation towards the co-op.


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## Linoleum (Aug 25, 2008)

My experience w/HT two years ago was terrible. Paid up front (mistake) and took them a LONG time (over 4 months), never held air when I finally got it back. They also slapped on some sideways, non-mag 21 stickers... crappy powder coating as well. I couldn't give a worse review.


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

broomhandle said:


> the stool is super sweet. is it ridgid? or have spring... thats the question....


i was thinking a spring...that way ther would be a little sag to it..making it comfy!.....better make it adjustable JIC....

or heck...make it adjustable....and then you can play tricks on friends....he goes to pee and you set the stool sof...he comes back and whoosh...sits a bit lower than before....I guess I think of this as a gag chair....

I really do want one though..


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## TigWorld (Feb 8, 2010)

EBasil said:


> ...if you can get your hands on elastomers...


Elastomers are not hard to make yourself and you can buy the polyurethane rod in different durometer (hardness) to fine tune things. For older manitous with the bolt through elastomers its a bit more work to drill the hole through, but for other forks without the centre hole (like quadra's) its just a matter of cutting the rod to length.


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

TigWorld said:


> Elastomers are not hard to make yourself and you can buy the polyurethane rod in different durometer (hardness) to fine tune things. For older manitous with the bolt through elastomers its a bit more work to drill the hole through, but for other forks without the centre hole (like quadra's) its just a matter of cutting the rod to length.


Thanks!!

Tip for drilling the hols...put them in the freezer for a few....or spraycan of freon...careful now...get them cold and they firm up.

I test rode one of the first profelx 856"s one day...it was 0 degrees out....great test!


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## FurryCrew (Nov 21, 2012)

Piggy backing on this thread...
I'd love to be able to replace the elastomers/damper/seals on my '96 DHOs. Anyone got a site or know somewhere I can get spare internals?

P.S. DHOs are currently on my '96 Heckler frame I use for around town/lite trail work. 1st generation hecklers considered Vintage/Classic yet? I know Santa Cruz still makes a version of them.


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## Wasmachineman NL (Jan 31, 2012)

FurryCrew said:


> Piggy backing on this thread...
> I'd love to be able to replace the elastomers/damper/seals on my '96 DHOs. Anyone got a site or know somewhere I can get spare internals?
> 
> P.S. DHOs are currently on my '96 Heckler frame I use for around town/lite trail work. 1st generation hecklers considered Vintage/Classic yet? I know Santa Cruz still makes a version of them.


Elastomers: Suspension Fork Parts eStore - Rock Shox Judy Elastomer Refresh Kit 97 DHO - (Powered by CubeCart)

Wipers/seals: enduroforkseals.com/id46.html


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## broomhandle (Jul 27, 2006)

Thats what this thread is for. not just rock shox. i have a few manitous to rebuild as well... all elastomers.

i guess that is the easist to change out. elastomer and a spring. and that could prob work on some of these rock shox too i would think....


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## Wasmachineman NL (Jan 31, 2012)

Kicking a dead topic: My SX-R had a elastomer and a long coil spring, Dougal had a nice write up on that but I cant find it.


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## theMeat (Jan 5, 2010)

Don't know of Dougal write up but these guys Suspension Fork Parts eStore - (Powered by CubeCart) have elasomers. If they're not listed and stocked they can make 'em


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## apat13 (Jun 19, 2006)

regarding on suspensionforkparts elastomers....I have ordered a few sets to rebuild forks for customers and found that the elastomers from suspensionforkparts.net are much much harder, almost brittle compared to stock ones from back in the day. They honestly felt like complete arse and rendered the forks only able to use about half their travel....and the quality of travel was terrible. Now I tell people we can use them if you just want to get the right ride height out of the old fork, but otherwise I call RISSE and have them cut some springs. Risse can still make "gem" dampers for judy shox too.


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

apat13 said:


> regarding on suspensionforkparts elastomers....I have ordered a few sets to rebuild forks for customers and found that the elastomers from suspensionforkparts.net are much much harder, almost brittle compared to stock ones from back in the day. They honestly felt like complete arse and rendered the forks only able to use about half their travel....and the quality of travel was terrible. Now I tell people we can use them if you just want to get the right ride height out of the old fork, but otherwise I call RISSE and have them cut some springs. Risse can still make "gem" dampers for judy shox too.


is there any way to get damping on them?....do they pogo?

I have several manitou's that I want to rebuild....still waiting on a good way to do it.

Thanks for the info though...always good to know other methods that work.


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## GrayJay (May 16, 2011)

new use I have found for the early manitous is to convert them into fatbike suspension forks.









The thing I like about the early manitous is that they are so simple to rebuild, tune and modify. The removeable arch provides for ability to modify the fork to get enough clearance for 86mm wide fatbike tires. More details on my fat-manitou conversions over at thread; 
http://forums.mtbr.com/fat-bikes/fatbike-front-suspension-718335.html


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## unikid (Jun 25, 2015)

*2001 RockShox Judy Top Caps*



GTscoob said:


> My local bike co-op has a whole box of old springs/seal kits/topcaps etc from older suspension forks.
> 
> If any of you are looking for anything specific, let me know and I can pull the box down and look through it. It's a mishmash of old RS Indy/Judy parts and older Marz/Manitou parts. Along with a ton of Fox rear coils of different weights and lengths, probably for older shorter travel shocks.
> 
> I'm in Atlanta and can ship if you're willing to cover shipping and throw a donation towards the co-op.


Would you happen to have 2000-2001 RockShox Judy Top Caps? Here is a link to a picture of what would look like: http://www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/download/file.php?id=74529


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