# Hello, Can Anybody help me with a Rockshox recon poploc / motion control question?



## jamjunky (May 9, 2013)

Hey,

I have been searching high and low for an answer to my question but keep getting more confused every time i find a possible answer.

I have a set of rockshox recon silver r's 120mm. I have quickly realised well to put it lightly they resemble a set of pogo sticks when travelling any distance on the flat or even worse uphill.

I have been offered a remote poploc / motion control damper kit

Remote Upgrade Kit--PopLoc | SRAM

However I do not know if the forks need to have a poploc already installed for this to work, Does the kit only work with air, coil or both. Please forgive my ignorance but everytime i come close to an answer the thread goes way off track.

To recap, I have a set of 2012 recon silver R's and the only adjustment on them is the pre-load dial on the top left stanchion and rebound on bottom right lower. Will these forks accept the poploc / motion control kit?

I thank you for your time.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

I believe you need to have the Motion Control damper in your fork in order to use that remote kit. The remote kit simply moves the adjustment from your fork crown up to you handlebars.

You say that your fork behaves like a "pogo stick", have you played with the rebound adjustment to try and slow it down? Sounds to me most of your problem is fork setup rather than lack of lockout.


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## jamjunky (May 9, 2013)

Hello, 

Thanks for your interest. I have played around with a broad range of adjustment combinations but they have little affect in relation to shock handling. They do work and i do understand they are entry level forks its just they dont really handle they simply accept the thumps.

Is the poploc a sort of device embedded in the spring or lowers? And the damper simply one part of that larger mechanism. I thought the Black plastic circuit was the damper and if installed would slow the path of oil. And in addition the kit includes the remote kit, completing the upgrade. 

This kit is designed for Recon's however I do not know if my particular model is compatible as every post I have came across gets a bit muddy or mentions a different model of fork.

What are your thoughts?

Cheers.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

the cartridge that you change with the remote is just the compression damper, not the rebound damper. if your trouble is with rebound speed, it won't help. you might want to experiment with different thickness of oil in the right leg.


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## zebrahum (Jun 29, 2005)

jamjunky said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thanks for your interest. I have played around with a broad range of adjustment combinations but they have little affect in relation to shock handling. They do work and i do understand they are entry level forks its just they dont really handle they simply accept the thumps.
> 
> ...


The kit is probably desigend for the Recon Gold which is equipped with the Motion Control damper. Your fork also has a damper, but it is not the Motion Control damper. This means that you do not have external control over the compression damping circuit.

I think you need to be more descriptive in what your issue is with the fork. A suspension fork is made to cycle, lockout is a gimmick. If your rebound speed is too high, even when the adjuster is set to full slow then you probably have a damping problem. When was the last time this fork was serviced?


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## jamjunky (May 9, 2013)

Hey, 

Thanks for the info, that's a cheaper option too. I will let you know how it goes. I'm out this weekend to Rostrevor Northern Ireland. new trails opened up so it will be perfect test run. 

Do you have any idea what the standard oil weight is within the fork?


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## jamjunky (May 9, 2013)

Hey,

The forks are less than 3 months old and ridden maybe 20 times. I will try to change the oil weight or look into a heavier spring. 

Thanks very much for the information, this is the first time I have used a forum to solve a problem and its a great way to yarn about bike queries.

Much appreciated.


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

I have an 2012 recon silver solo air. Pulled out the turnkey damper and installed an argyle dampener. For handles a ton better for this 300 LB clyde. Highly adjustable and highly reccomended.


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

paxy said:


> I have an 2012 recon silver solo air. Pulled out the turnkey damper and installed an argyle dampener. For handles a ton better for this 300 LB clyde. Highly adjustable and highly reccomended.


I see that you have had success changing the TK damper out for the MC damper from the Argyle. Was there anything else you needed to do to make a successful swap, any other parts needed? How much oil did you end up using? I just got an Trek Superfly with the Recon Silver, and want more control over it than I get right now.


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

*Hello, Can Anybody help me with a Rockshox recon poploc / motion control ques...*

Dampener came with o-rings so that's all I needed. Already had a large socket to pull the old one off.

As far as fluid, I initially didn't add any. Dampening wasn't working very well so I added another 5-10 cc's. Just a guesstimate. Also used 7 wt oil as I didn't have 5 wt on hand. Dampening is working well now. I'm getting ready to do the first shock service this month and will use the argyle manual to get the fluid quantity. I think it was a bit more than the turn key required. 147 if memory serves but don't take my word.

It a pretty tight fit getting the new dampener in. Had to rock it back and forth to get the o rings past the threads ten all good.

Argyle dampener has 7 compression settings. I run mine right in the middle most of the time. I haven't messed with the gate adjustment yet.

To date, still my favorite update on the bike.


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

paxy said:


> Dampener came with o-rings so that's all I needed. Already had a large socket to pull the old one off.
> 
> As far as fluid, I initially didn't add any. Dampening wasn't working very well so I added another 5-10 cc's. Just a guesstimate. Also used 7 wt oil as I didn't have 5 wt on hand. Dampening is working well now. I'm getting ready to do the first shock service this month and will use the argyle manual to get the fluid quantity. I think it was a bit more than the turn key required. 147 if memory serves but don't take my word.
> 
> ...


Awesome. Sounds like it is still working well. Time to break down and go ahead and order it.


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

Another question. Went to SRAMs website to pull the tech manuals for both the Argyle and the Recon, specifically looking at oil volumes. I see where the Recon manual shows the volume of oil in the damper as 147ml. When I pulled the Argyle manual, it says to use 120 or 130 ml of oil in the damper. Which one would you consider as being correct? The manuals warn that too much oil reduces travel, and not enough reduces the damper performance. Want to make sure I do this correct the first time, and not have to go back into it later.


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

start with 120, lock the gate all the way to the firmest setting, and you should feel when the lockout engages. if it's too low in the travel you pull the cartridge out and add some more in 10ml increments.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

The oil level should be 1cm above the bottom of the lockout cartridge when it is fitted in the fork.

Measure how far down the fork leg the bottom of the cartridge will be, then fill the leg with oil to 1cm above this point.

You can use a long thin piece of card to dip the oil, l cut a piece 1cm wide by 20cm long.


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

Ok, I finally got around to putting the Argyle damper in my Recon silver fork today. Disassembly and assembly were uneventful. According to the Argyle manual, it says to put 130ml +/- 3ml of fluid into the damper. I was methodical when I measured it out, putting 131ml into the damper side. Pumped the air chamber up to 100, where I was with the other damper. The fork seems to sit lower, meaning it appears to be using more of the travel in sag with the same psi in the solo chamber. I put a zip tie on the leg, and compressed the fork, and I can get it much higher than I was able to with the other damper. Is this normal with this upgrade?


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

I didn't have and behavior like that. Perhaps your old dampener was stuck in full lockout for whatever reason?

I'd just add air until until the sag is correct.

Is the new dampener working? Is it mostly locked out when turned all the way clockwise?


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

The old damper operated like it should....being as harsh/stiff as it was when compressing it, but would lock out when the knob was fully engaged. The new damper gets stiff, but does not lock out fully like the older damper. Is this indicative of too much fluid or not enough?


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

When mine is on full compression, it moves a 1/2 inch or so. It's not a true lockout but good enough in my book, if you are getting more movement than that I'd add oil in small increments.

Also, I usually have to cycle my forks a couple of times to in order for the compression dampening to work properly,

Lastly, keep I'mind that there is a gate adjust on that unit. I've never adjusted mine but that could also be causing some of the behavior you are expierencing. May be worth playing with. 


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Set the oil level to 1cm above the bottom of the damper/rebound cartridge in the top of the fork leg, as l suggested above.

I fitted a similar upgrade to my Sektor TK Solo Air. I had the same issues about the correct oil quantity etc.

My post was skipped over, but this came directly from the tech guy at SRAM when l spoke to him myself.

The lockout on my new cartridge is "softer" in that the fork will still move a little, where the original was pretty much solid when locked out.


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

I think I may have finally figured this out. The one thing I did not adjust was the floodgate control under the brass plug after swapping out the MoCo damper. I was in too much of a hurry and forgot all out that part. Took that out and adjusted it to full close, and tried the fork out. Now I get a firm lockout when the knob is in the lockout. I upped the pressure back to 125psi for my weight, and the travel is all back now.

So, following the Argyle manual is what got me my results. 130ml in the damper side.

All I can say is wow...this is a completely transformed fork. Gone is the loud compression "whoosh", and now I have a pretty plush and functional fork. I'm glad people pointed out this upgrade, because my next options were to return the bike for a higher model (better fork), or swap the fork out.


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Sigh.

I give up. But I will one last time suggest you check the oil level as I suggested above, as that was the information from SRAM technical.

They said the oil level should be checked like this when fitting a non-standard damper.


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## fuel98rider (May 26, 2012)

lotusdriver said:


> Sigh.
> 
> I give up. But I will one last time suggest you check the oil level as I suggested above, as that was the information from SRAM technical.
> 
> They said the oil level should be checked like this when fitting a non-standard damper.


There is no reason to sigh. As it turns out, it wasn't an oil volume issue, it was that the floodgate control was on full open, which caused the poor performance. Once that was closed, the fork performed as it should with the given oil volume.

At the end of the day, regardless of the measurement, there is a volume of oil that goes in there. I have found that volume of oil, it is repeatable and I have shared what that is. Now, when the time comes to do the seals on the damper, I know the volume to put in there without having to monkey around with measuring things. If this had not worked out, I had your suggestion in my back pocket, but in this case it wasn't necessary.


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

Thanks for the info. Servicing my shock next week and this info will come in handy


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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

Oops, meant fork. Shock service is this week 


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## lotusdriver (Sep 15, 2013)

Fair enough.

Glad you got it working. It was just that l had exactly the same issues with fitting a damper upgrade in my Sektor TK.

I spent ages on the SRAM site trying to find out why the fork would not work properly. Eventually my LBS gave me a contact number for SRAM Europe and l called them.

It turned out to be a dealer only number but they talked to me, and gave me the information above.

The guy said that the MoCo damper was slightly shorter than the original, and needed a few extra ml of oil in the fork.

If the oil level is too low the lockout won't work properly.


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## MrCloudy86 (Oct 19, 2014)

lotusdriver said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Glad you got it working. It was just that l had exactly the same issues with fitting a damper upgrade in my Sektor TK.
> 
> ...


Sorry to drag up this thread but im also looking to upgrade the stock damping on my Sektor TK Solo Air. Would a 2009 Rock shox revelation/Pike 426 motion control damper fit in my fork? 
2009 Rock shox mission control damper For Sale

If not then what damper with compression adjust settings would fit the Tk solo air?


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## syl3 (Apr 23, 2008)

all 32mm forks have the same specs if they're made of the same material. so alloy forks like pike, reba, revelation, recon gold will not fit parts from cromo forks like tora or recon silver.


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## Scraps628 (Sep 26, 2017)

Just in case anyone is trying this with a Rockshox Recon TK Silver 26" (I believe 2017), I was unable to get the Argyle damper to screw all the way in. It is possible that it just got cross threaded, but I really don't think so. Rather, I believe the threads were just too deep on the MoCo damper, so they were bottoming out. Perhaps this is just an issue on the 26" size, but people on Amazon indicated that they had been able to do it, so I'm not sure that is the case. Rather, I think it's something new with the 2017's -- perhaps Rockshox just changed the threading on the inside in order to shut down the possibility for this upgrade. If so, it's possible that this is also an issue with Recons for 27.5" and 29". Either way, be warned -- the Argyle MoCo damper doesn't appear to work with the 2017 26" Recon Silver TK.


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

Scraps628 said:


> Just in case anyone is trying this with a Rockshox Recon TK Silver 26" (I believe 2017), I was unable to get the Argyle damper to screw all the way in. It is possible that it just got cross threaded, but I really don't think so. Rather, I believe the threads were just too deep on the MoCo damper, so they were bottoming out. Perhaps this is just an issue on the 26" size, but people on Amazon indicated that they had been able to do it, so I'm not sure that is the case. Rather, I think it's something new with the 2017's -- perhaps Rockshox just changed the threading on the inside in order to shut down the possibility for this upgrade. If so, it's possible that this is also an issue with Recons for 27.5" and 29". Either way, be warned -- the Argyle MoCo damper doesn't appear to work with the 2017 26" Recon Silver TK.


They still make 26" Recon Silver TKs? I thought this fork was discontinued? I had an issue installing the damper and the o-ring had twisted. The o-ring supplied with the damper was rather loose fitting. I replaced it with another o-ring and problem solved. Can you post some photos of the issue?

Maybe they changed the damper.

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## Scraps628 (Sep 26, 2017)

Yeah -- still available. I think it's technically a 2017, but they are out there still, as I ordered it (from JensonUSA I think) about a month ago. I'm just using it to upgrade my old 26er for sentimental reasons, and thought it'd be fun to give it the moco mod. 

I unfortunately didn't snap a picture of the two dampers side-by-side, because I was a bit oily and didn't want to muck up my phone. I wish I had, because I've since been doubting myself wondering if maybe I just had not removed enough oil, and that was why it was hitting a wall. I may go back and pull it out tonight just for a picture, but I'll say this. I'm 99.9% certain it's a thread-depth issue for these reasons. First, I was using a shock syringe to get the oil out, so I know I was pulling out enough that the level was 1 cm above the bottom o-ring of the moco damper (it pulled quite a bit too -- a little more than 40 ml, as I recall). Second, given that only the bottom-most thread of the moco damper showed some sign of stripping, I think I was indeed running into the bottom of the threads in the shock tube. If it had been oil pressure pressing back against it, I would not have expected to see any stripping; or, if there was any, it seems it should have been borne equally by all the threads, so all should have shown some wear. I also would have expected at least a little oil to bubble out the top, and it wasn't. (As it was, full tight had the moco damper stopping where the o-ring detent was all that was left visible above the crown, so perhaps the threads were tight enough to keep oil from being able to make its way out, but who knows.)

I can definitely take a picture of the moco damper itself tonight. If I'm feeling ambitious, I'll pull the TK damper again and take a picture of both so everyone can see the relative lengths and thread lengths. My only reservation is that I don't want to stink up my basement again with the oil.

Thanks for the help.


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

I'm thinking the may have updated the damper design. Since they still make the DJ forks using this damper, a change in the stanchion on these would cause a damper design change. They'd no longer fit and would explain why there are more threads on the damper. I'm interested to see what you find. 

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## Scraps628 (Sep 26, 2017)

One point of clarification. Looks like I got mine from Worldwide. JensonUSA currently has 26" Recon Silver TKs too, but in 2018 form, which apparently (according to the picture and specs) lack the rim-brake posts, which is why I went with the Worldwide one, which I think (but will confirm tonight) was a 2017 model.


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

Yeah, these 2017 Recons are different. I looked them on the SRAM website. They are not the same design as older models.

It also says they now come standard with Motion Control damping featuring low speed compression adjustment. The old damper was a one-hole orange turnkey damper. Basically open or locked out. That's all.

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## Scraps628 (Sep 26, 2017)

Okay. I figured it out.

First, to what you said about the 2017's, don't put stock in what the specs are said to be on that website regarding moco vs. tk damper. My 2017 definitely has a TK damper, as you'll see. I believe the moco dampers come standard on the 2018's, though not sure if that is true on 26" size. Either way, I couldn't get the 2018 because it didn't have the rim braking mounts.

Now, as for why I couldn't get the Argyle moco damper into my stanchion, here goes. I pulled the TK damper back out and compared them. To my surprise, the height of the threads was the same. Less, actually, if you consider that my TK damper has a thread or two above the o-ring as well. Looking inside the stanchion, the threads also went pretty deep, so that explanation was ruled out.

Next, I thought, perhaps the length of the Argyle moco damper is the issue. Perhaps it is running into the rebound post. To check, I used one of my really, really long craftsman screwdrivers and dipped it in to see how far in it got before it touched the rebound post. That also was not the issue.

So, I thought, maybe it really was just too much oil, and the pressure was just stopping the damper in its tracks? So I pulled some more oil out, and tried putting the moco damper back in again. Same result -- bound up right at the same spot.

What?

So, could I have possibly cross-threaded it? I don't think so, because you really can't tilt the body of the damper much by the time the bottom is way down in the stanchion. Also, it didn't feel like cross-threading; it felt like it was hitting a wall. It also didn't have any wear on the first thread; rather, on the second.

Then it hits me -- this feels like when you have a mismatch in threads. I hadn't even considered that as a possibility, because, why would they change something like that? Well, I pick it up, and hold it up to the light, and there you go. They changed the pitch of the threads subtly. Probably to prevent this very mod. Here's the picture evidence.

Side-by-side of each with a ruler, just so we know what the 26" TK looks like compared to the Argyle moco. Also a snap of the label for the moco:















And here's two shots of the threads up close. It's hard to get a good shot of both at the same time, as the silver ones need low light to show up well, and the black ones need more light.















If you look closely, you can see that the first thread of the moco is inset (smaller diameter), and then starting with the first full thread, there are eight threads until you get to the top. On the TK, however, they are all full diameter, and there are ten in the same space. Thus, it makes sense that I was seeing signs of stripping on the first full thread of the moco damper -- that is where it was making full contact with the threads of the stanchion, and binding up.

Thus, seems the issue is just that they changed the threads as of 2017 for the Recon Silver TK 26".


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## Timothy G. Parrish (Apr 13, 2014)

Scraps628 said:


> Okay. I figured it out.
> 
> First, to what you said about the 2017's, don't put stock in what the specs are said to be on that website regarding moco vs. tk damper. My 2017 definitely has a TK damper, as you'll see. I believe the moco dampers come standard on the 2018's, though not sure if that is true on 26" size. Either way, I couldn't get the 2018 because it didn't have the rim braking mounts.
> 
> ...


Nice investigation. That is a new version of the TK damper. The older versions are orange with black threads.

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## paxy (Apr 6, 2012)

Just got a new recon fork to replace the old one as it kept losing air even after a rebuild. Also had a stripped out brake post. 

Going to suck if I can't move my argyle damper over due to this issue. Crossing my fingers that I nave the old turnkey unit in there but probably not. I do notice that the stantion dust wipers on this new fork are black rather than the usual grey. This doesn't bode well. 

I'll report back when I pull the turn key unit out.


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## Scraps628 (Sep 26, 2017)

One update to provide: after striking out on the Argyle, I took a chance on the the 2017 remote upgrade unit, which uses a moco damper, and I was able to install that one into my Recon Silver TK 26". It was a bit more expensive ($75) than the Argyle, and I didn't care to have the remote lockout (would actually have preferred to have the bit of lsc adjustment instead), but it's still a major improvement over the TK damper, so worth it in my opinion. I wasn't positive of the oil level (SRAM's technical manuals are all over the place) so I just did what others had said, and drew off enough oil to make the level fall exactly 1 cm above the bottom of the damper, and that seems to have worked.

The unit I got was: RockShox Remote Upgrade Kit, OneLoc Right/above, Left/below 10mm MCRL Damper Push to Close, 2017 Recon Silver B1/Sektor.

I assume there's also a version whose remote is mountable as "Right/below, Left/above," but who knows. I didn't even notice this portion of the product description until now, so thankfully I was able to find a place on my left handlebar where it could hang below without interference.


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