# Bike Cad Pro or....... suggestions please.



## illcomm33 (May 10, 2006)

Researching has left me as confused and frustrated... 
Found one post on MTBR a while back about other options to Bike Cad Pro but it was for some open software program. Googling it seems to bring up "free download" torrent sites. Boo.:nono: I am not saying that $350 isn't worth it but want to know other options.

Will be attempting the first solo frame (a ways out....lots more brazing/filing practice) after a couple months of tool collection.
*
What other options are out there to take geometries and break it down to help with mitering! *(I will be filing with 1/2 round Nicholson files. and need miter guides! I used Miter guides at yamaguchi and felt comfortable that by the time I filed to the miter lines the tubes would fit right! (Funny what a little piece of paper with a squiggly line will do!)

Thanks in advance for the rookie question as well as all the help with previous posts.

Cheers.
T


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

illcomm33 said:


> need miter guides! I used Miter guides at yamaguchi and felt comfortable that by the time I filed to the miter lines the tubes would fit right! (Funny what a little piece of paper with a squiggly line will do!)


There are many ways to miter tubing to the appropriate size without the use of a miter guide in the form of printed paper.

I can't really help but feel that the fact you already don't know these other methods after taking a course is a bit disturbing but let me break it down a bit.

1. You can use a program called win-miter. It is free and been around for at least a decade and it works great.

http://www.frameforum.org/forum2/index.php?showtopic=606

2. You can take the lengths and angles from a full size drawing while using the appropriate sized file. If you make a very nice full size drawing, you can work from that using a simple set of frame blocks. It does help to mark your centerlines and have a tool called a bevel protractor. You visually line up your tube with the reference marks on the piece of paper and use the right size file and begin your miter. For instance a 12'' half round I believe is a 1-3/8th miter. A 10'' is a 1.250. You check your work with the bevel protractor until you have the appropriate angle. Once practiced you can make a nice miter in about 2 minutes.

3. Third method is to use a caliper and mark your cut line distances. This is a bit more sophisticated. I have two big calipers. A 24 and 40 inch. I do use a program which tells me how far apart the miters are and I can mark this using dykem and a sharp scribe. I can either use this to create my miters by hand or use the marks to set up in a milling machine for machine mitering.

I can drop you a free excel based program I used for years that will give you the numbers you need. It is called frame designer and you may be able to find it. No pictures but it has everything. There are others too, like BG-101 from Martin Manning.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

OP, if you're talking about rattlecad, it's hosted on Sourceforge, which is very legit. Any program that comes with source is pretty safe

There is the program at Nova which is pretty nice


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

unterhausen said:


> OP, if you're talking about rattlecad, it's hosted on Sourceforge, which is very legit. Any program that comes with source is pretty safe
> 
> There is the program at Nova which is pretty nice


Here is the link to RattleCad and indeed it is very legit!

http://sourceforge.net/projects/rattlecad/files/components_0.01.zip/download

Manfred Rosenberger is the developer of this program and I am happy to say I have had a lot of input in it's design for good or bad.

I have been using it pretty exclusively for 3-4 years.

One thing to remember that this program is open source so if any of you are whizzes at programing this stuff or great at making new graphics (I.e. it has a library for all components but right now we only have images for campy stuff) We would love your input to make the program better.


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## jocko (Apr 29, 2005)

I'll chime in with my two cents as someone who's fairly new to the process. One of my first purchases when ramping up for frame building was Bike CAD. I found it very helpful in understanding how changes to a certain length/angle has downstream implications on other aspects of frame geometry. For things like fork length, trail, bb drop. Bike CAD is nice because you can tweak numbers and quickly see (visually) how the changes impact the look and design of the frame.

I think once a builder has more experience and basically knows the "inputs", then basic tools to give you angles and miters are probably sufficient.

Bottom line - I haven't regretted dropping the $350 for Bike CAD. Plus, I've found Brent to be very helpful and responsive with any questions I've had about functionality.

Joth
http://otiscycles.blogspot.com/


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

rattlecad looks pretty nice. I just had to spend a while figuring out how to get tcl/tk running it on linux. Keep hoping for an upgrade from Brent on BikeCad though


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## marks_bike (Aug 22, 2006)

RattleCAD is ok, but I really don't like the fact that you can't set the st length. You have to adjust the tt angle to get the length you want. I really don't understand why they do it that way?



dbohemian said:


> Here is the link to RattleCad and indeed it is very legit!
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/rattlecad/files/components_0.01.zip/download
> 
> ...


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## dbohemian (Mar 25, 2007)

marks_bike said:


> RattleCAD is ok, but I really don't like the fact that you can't set the st length. You have to adjust the tt angle to get the length you want. I really don't understand why they do it that way?


Nice suggestion. I will see if we can impliment it.

BUT.....I must remind you, this is open source. One single guy has been working on this for free using his own time so you can have it for um... free....:thumbsup:

Second, It is once again....OPEN SOURCE...so go ahead and add that feature and the rest of us can benefit from it.

http://tcl.tk/

P.S. It can be argued that setting the TT angle is more accurate than letting it float and setting the ST length. As a builder I would rather have a nice round TT angle (i.e. 12.5 degree) than set an ST length that is completely arbitrary based on an intersection point and then my TT miter angle might end up being 12.23 which is a PITA. With modern seat posts and sizing who really cares if the ST is 455 or 447? Both much easier to do than nail an odd TT angle.


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## unterhausen (Sep 28, 2008)

good point. With Bike Cad, I usually end up messing around with lengths for quite a while until I get the angles I want.


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