# 16" shopping for my 5-year old daughter



## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Looking at getting my 5 year old daughter her first bike. We have a Strider that she used a little bit, but that'll be for the 3 year old, and I want to get a "real" bike for my 5-year old. Now that we live in an an area where she can ride and not get ran over!

Some of the bikes I see popping up a lot to check out are:
Specialized Hotrock 16 ($240 MSRP)
Giant Pudd'n ($210 MSRP)
Fuju Kit 16 ($229 MSRP)
Trek Mystic 16 ($209 MSRP)

I've read the specs of some of these, but honestly they just make me go cross-eyed. Other than comfort and "what feels best", are there any major differences either good or bad between these bikes that would sway me towards or away from them?

I checked Craigslist and found these. I'm always leary about how things were treated though.

Girls Bike 16 inch
I think that may be a Lil' Pudd'n frame with larger tires? Frame style looks different than the regular Pudd'n. However, the triangle opening in front of the CL bike is larger than the one on the Lil Pudd'n...who knows.
Lil' PUDD'N (2011) - Bikes | Giant bikes UK & Ireland official website | UK / Ireland

girls trek mystic pink. solid bike but needs little tlc


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## Henski (Mar 24, 2014)

Hi Dave, got a opus scout for my son, he can lift it, push it easily. And stand up and ride up hills, key was its light weight I think weight is the key issue for these kids starting out for girls I would recommend the opus glitter... Good luck


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

I second the observation that weight matters. I would also add that you want to ensure that her hands are big enough for the brake levers on whatever bike you get. I'm sure that all of those are fairly good bikes... but I'll throw two more into the ring: Spawn Cycles Banshee, and Islabikes. Spawn is a canadian company, but they'll ship to the US... Islabikes has a US storefront in Portland, and will ship all over the country.

Upside for Islabikes: LIGHT, well-made, geared for small riders.
Upside for Spawn: A little lighter, geared for small riders, and has a freewheel instead of a coaster brake.

I got the Spawn Gremlin/Furi 14" for my 3 year old, and she absolutely loved it... only to be overcome by her blue Banshee 16". It's a great bike, made with decent components, and they are really careful with total bike weight. The banshee comes in at about 16lbs if I recall, which is EXTREMELY light for a 16" bike. There's an MTBR thread for the Banshee over here: http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/review-spawn-cycles-banshee-16-wheeled-bike-800614.html

I've heard nothing but stellar things about the Islabike though, and they are cheaper than Spawn.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

i have a spawn banshee, a savage 1.0, and a heavily modded hotrock 20.

spawn cycles all the way.

http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/spawn-savage-vs-islabike-bienn-20-a-895661.html

tho i havent got my hands on an isla, yet.

my 5 year old (20% for height) is technically too small for the savage. even with the mini seat mod she's on her tip toes with the seat slammed all the way down.

(thats the one thing the hotrock 20 has going for it. the top of the seat tube was about 2" lower than the spawn savage. granted, that was a 2003 i found for $10 at a garage sale. not sure on the new ones.)

i had her on the hotrock when she was 4 1/2.

she's tried out lil sis's banshee the other day, and it felt way small for her, but ive always pushed her for bigger bikes.

if she had started on a banshee, she'd prolly feel totally fine on it, and her feet would be able to properly touch the ground, which would help on the trail.

one difference is caliper (u brakes) vs v-brakes.

my neighbors kid is a big 7 year old with a strong grip and he cant pull his (admittedly cheap) u brakes enough to matter.

my 3 yr old can lock up her v-brakes easily (maybe too easy). but its easier to soften the bite of Vs than find a way to make caliper brakes work.

the resale on the spawn will be close to 80-90%, as opposed to 40-50% of even spesh, giant, trek, etc.

the big bike brands' (especially 16") bikes are marginally better than walmart bikes.

if not spawn (savage) or banshee, then islabikes.

if not islabikes, then Mesa 16" Girls - Kids - Bikes | Schwinn Bicycles

the schwinn might not be much better than others offerings, but the v-brakes WILL make a HUGE difference, especially on the trail.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

OK now typing 1-handed holding my newborn...this'll be a short one.

I've been to two local shops so far.

One shop had:
Schwinn Lil Stardust
GT Laguna (older model)

Next shop had:
Specialized Hotrock 16 ($240)
Giant Pudd'n will be here in ~ 1 week ($210)

Tried sitting her on a Hotrock 20 but it was just a little too big. 


Do Islabikes only come in red? LOL Nothing local, only delivery. $270 + $40 = $310


Ack, got to go. Finish later.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I'd ask about the schwinn Mesa, then. 

Both my girls LOVE having "real" brakes.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Sorry, didn't get a chance to finish replying yet...I'll get to the rest! 

Just measured her, 43" tall, 18" inseam.

Isla CNOC-16
Inseam 16.5"-20.5"
Min Height 41"

Isla BEINN-20 Small
Inseam 18.5-23"
Min Height 44"

Just under the 20" bike size-wise but will be there "soon". I figure ride a 16" until she's out of that size range OR wants to step up, move the 16" to her sister.

I have read enough to be convinced to stick with an aluminum frame and try and keep things on the lighter side. My neighborhood is pretty hilly.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> I'd ask about the schwinn Mesa, then.
> 
> Both my girls LOVE having "real" brakes.


I remember as kid moving from my coaster-braked Royce Union to a freewheeling Schwinn Predator (still have it), and how much I LOVED being able to pedal backwards and have the real brakes.

Is it too much at once to learn?

I have a 5-year old girl, 3.5 year old girl, and newborn boy. If I do neutral color, it'll pass from girl to girl to boy. If I do a girl color, it'll pass girl-girl-(sell or repaint).

I've seen where some people have taken 'standard' colors and added girl-colored accents like brake cables, grips, seats etc.

I'm wondering how long the 5-year old will ride a 16" before moving up to a 20", and at what point the current 3.5 year old will be able to ride the 16".


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Depends on kid size and, more importantly, how willing you are to push your kids.

My neighbors kid (the big 7yr old) is still on 16" wheels. He's too big for it(he almost fits a small 26" I have), but he still rides it fine.

I'd say get your oldest comfortable with the riding on a 16" til June/July, then get her a 20" and start the middle kid on the 16". Once my kid realized she could ride the hot rock (even tho it was "too big"), there was no stopping her.

Confidence is key. Even lil sis loves her banshee. took a while, tho. Having them transition to a larger (even slightly too big) bike AFTER they already know how to ride is MUCH easier than teaching a kid to ride on a bike that's too big.

much, much easier. getting lil sis to learn on the banshee was like pulling MY OWN teeth.

As far as "too much to learn", my (then 4 yr old) oldest went from a balance bike to a 12" Kmart bike (which was too small the day i brought it home). she had the training wheels on for a week. after watching her turn the tiny cranks for 3 months, i finally put her on a 20" dual V brake. prolly shoulda put her on a 16", but it took her 2 rides to realize she could ride MUCH faster on the 20".

The good thing about starting your 5 year old on a 16" is if you take the pedals off, it'll be like a dual V push bike. Then when she gets the braking down (prolly take a week), put pedals on. if i had gone this route, the transition woulda been alot easier.

The thing about the isla bike is the tall seat tube. It's at least an inch taller than the schwinn and 2-3 inches taller than the banshee. The spawn is so low, some jack wagon complained that it was as low as the 14" spawn they had upgraded from. I guess he didn't think about a longer seatpost.

My 3 year old is technically too small for the banshee, but shorter cranks and she loves it now. If the furi had been available, Ida gone that route.

Decisions, decisions.

But if you went with the spawn banshee, you WILL NOT REGRET IT.

I think a red with blue accents (or vice versa) would look fairly dope. And stickers can be a cheap way to change the look.

dont you dare tell anyone i admitted this, but i regret putting so much money into bling, since the girls just wanted "lots of stickers". but, hey, my normally "bling hating" wifey loves the way they turned out, so i guess all's well.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

OK those bikes are just badass right there. Love the bling-factor, and LOL @ "We just want stickers"! I looked at cost of some of that stuff -- you must have spent a lot of money!

I've been doing a good bit of reading and really like what I'm seeing with the Spawn bikes. Just so much money! On the flipside, it will get a lot of years of use between the two girls. I suggested to my wife maybe getting a blue bike and adding pink accents like someone else here had done, and then converting it back when the boy is old enough but eh, my wife's a girl, thinks she should have a pink bike. 

Watching my daughter in the store on the Hotrock reminded me of one thing I hate about coaster brakes -- sometimes you are stopped in a dead zone and can't get the pedals going again. Makes sense too that if the kids take their feet off to balance, there goes the brakes.

Pink is out of stock though. $395 + $50 shipping to PA. Checked Craigslist, nothing in a 250 mile radius.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Spawn has a 'coupon' area on checkout, do they actually have coupon codes for them?


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I've never seen coupons, but I could see them running promotions in western canadia land.

I spent basically my entire 2014 rec budget on them.

I rationali-

Er

I mean JUSTIFIED the bling as it'll transfer to their larger bikes. Tho my oldest already told me she wants to save hers for her kids. (I didn't have the heart to tell her if the family pattern holds, she's gonna have boys. Lol.)

I've never seen a used spawn for sale. And usually someone calls "dibs" fairly quickly. Even tho I own a savage and a banshee, I'd pay close to 85% retail for a used one (and just feed the fam w food stores for a month). i AM thinking of getting her an isla 20, just for the lower seat tube. im hoping that will help with her confidence on the trail.

If you can find a used hotrock20 or some such for cheap, that's not a bad route. Sourcing a rigid 20" fork w Vs is tough and good 20" sus is PRICEY, tho.

if it were me, id get a isla gnoc 16 (unless you REALLY want to get your 3 year old pedaling this year, then the spawn is it) to start her riding on her own, and maybe a cheap(ish) 20". then upgrade slowly, or next year get a spawn or isla 20".

this isnt a bad deal:

20" Trek Mystic *Magenta* Girls Bike

maybe better?:

For Sale: Raleigh Rowdy Youth Trail Bike

this is a low seat tube! new crank would go a long way. find a 20" V fork, and maybe new wheels eventually lookin at around $200 for crank conversion and threadless rigid:

Bike Girls 20" Schwinn Starlet

ugly as sin, but CHEAP:

schwinn bike 20 in

looks decent, but will need the same parts as the cheaper ones. wheels are prolly a lil better tho:

Trek jet 20" blue bike

slim pickins for kids bikes.

i was lookin for some dude in sacramento and he had ALL KINDS of selection. i told him i was jelly of his craigslist. lol.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave88LX said:


> I'm wondering how long the 5-year old will ride a 16" before moving up to a 20", and at what point the current 3.5 year old will be able to ride the 16".


This kinda depends on the particular kid, bike, and type of riding they're doing, and a lot on you and what kind of riding you try to steer them towards. There's no single answer to the wheel size question, even for the same kid.

For example, my kid preferred a 16" BMX park bike from 4 all the way until he was almost 8, but was at the same time racing BMX on a 20" mini starting when he was 5, and began riding a 24" MTB on trails when he was 6. Now he's 9 and rides an 18" in the skateparks, but will be probably going to 26" for a trail bike this summer (unless we're riding DH or more aggressive type trails, then he'll be on his 24").

I tended to like to keep him on the smaller wheels longer, specially for the first handful of years. Seems to be a lot more conducive to picking up good handling skills than rushing to put him on a bike that he wasn't able to move around well on. I'll also buck the trend as far as bike weight. While I wouldn't purposefully go out looking for the heaviest bike you can find, I didn't really find weight has ever been any sort of limiting factor.

These are all from around the same time period, when he was 6. 16"-20"-24" Horses for courses and all that.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> I've never seen coupons, but I could see them running promotions in western canadia land.


Well that stinks!



> I spent basically my entire 2014 rec budget on them.


Budget, that's a good idea. We just moved a couple months ago to a nice neighborhood. Old house was on a main road, never had much in the way of outside toys. Feels like I'm playing catch-up.

Oh man, if I knew you were going to look locally, I should have updated my profile. I'm actually near York, PA now. I used to live in MD.

This is the only Hotrock that's local, but I don't love it for $250.
Specialized Hotrock 20" frame - Boys



> if it were me, id get a isla gnoc 16 (unless you REALLY want to get your 3 year old pedaling this year, then the spawn is it) to start her riding on her own, and maybe a cheap(ish) 20". then upgrade slowly, or next year get a spawn or isla 20".


Well, they are extremely competitive. They have some little Disney scooters right now they push themselves around on and it's ALWAYS a competition. Whenever either one gets ahead of the other, they start whining and moaning about the other being ahead. So with that said, if the 5 year old is riding, the 3.5 year old is going to want to too. (4 in October).

I am thinking the 5 year old would be good on the 16" for the summer, and move up to a 20" next year, at which point the younger one would take the 16" bike. I guess the question then is what to get the 3.5 year old right now.



> slim pickins for kids bikes.


It sure is!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave88LX said:


> Well, they are extremely competitive. They have some little Disney scooters right now they push themselves around on and it's ALWAYS a competition. Whenever either one gets ahead of the other, they start whining and moaning about the other being ahead. So with that said, if the 5 year old is riding, the 3.5 year old is going to want to too. (4 in October).
> 
> I am thinking the 5 year old would be good on the 16" for the summer, and move up to a 20" next year, at which point the younger one would take the 16" bike. I guess the question then is what to get the 3.5 year old right now.


Ever think about looking into BMX racing? Doesn't require a ton of skill to get started, and there are always lots of girls racing in the younger age brackets at our local track. Great family sport, and there is no better way to turn a kid into a really good rider. Many tracks have open practices sessions or allow you to just go ride there whenever you want. You should be able to easily score a used mini and/or micro-mini BMX bike under $300. I found my kid's to be a great trail bike starting out too, with a little gearing change.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Live vicariously through my kids? Absolutely! Haha. My wife's cousin has their kids in BMX racing, they seem to really enjoy it.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

My teeny 3 year old (4 in November) rides a 16" bike. His tall-for-his-age 7 year old brother also rides a 16" BMX. And a 24" mountainbike.

Start the 5 year old on the 16, and your 3 year old may follow sooner than you think!


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Def not a good deal. 

The gnoc16 is a heck of a lot of bike for the price. Nothing really comes close in a 16" dual V. 

Honestly, slaphead and I have been trading posts the last few days, and I'd listen to him, should our views differ. I'm more knowledgable than average in the fam forums, but he makes me look like a toddler. 

Budum tss.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

are you sure you dont wanna move back to MD?

york is really slim on kids bikes.

this schwinn aint too bad for $30:

Five Bikes


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

ProjectMayhem said:


> My teeny 3 year old (4 in November) rides a 16" bike. His tall-for-his-age 7 year old brother also rides a 16" BMX. And a 24" mountainbike.
> 
> Start the 5 year old on the 16, and your 3 year old may follow sooner than you think!


meant to say my three year old is about 36.5" tall, and the seat of his bike is 17.5" from the ground. He has the 89mm Spawn cranks.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I still work in MD, so it's not out of the question. 

Man, there are a LOT more choices when you move up to 20" tires! Wow.

And ah, is "stolen" a company I hope?
stolen bmx frame


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

i remember when i saw my first "stolen" bike on craigslist. i was like "wuuuuuuhhhhhh????"

they do bmx.

projectmayhem, what frame you got for your 3 year old?


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

It was a very cheap ebay buy. Merida Dakar 616. Frame and wheels is all that's left of that bike!


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

ProjectMayhem said:


> It was a very cheap ebay buy. Merida Dakar 616. Frame and wheels is all that's left of that bike!


It is the girls version btw, seems like a small frame compared to a lot of 16" bikes. I think when I compared it, it was more like the 14" Spawn frame in size


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

your kid do okay with the u-brakes?

ive never tried decent ones, so im wondering if my bias against u-brakes is based on quality, rather than design flaws.


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

ilmfat said:


> dont you dare tell anyone i admitted this, but i regret putting so much money into bling, since the girls just wanted "lots of stickers". but, hey, my normally "bling hating" wifey loves the way they turned out, so i guess all's well.
> 
> View attachment 880056


Those bikes look sic! Well done Dad!


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

ilmfat said:


> your kid do okay with the u-brakes?
> 
> ive never tried decent ones, so im wondering if my bias against u-brakes is based on quality, rather than design flaws.


He had sidepull brakes which were useless. I ended up buying a fork with v-brake attachments, so much better. Still has the side-pull on the rear, but mostly uses his front brake anyway.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

thank you, sir!

i actually am put to shame when i see the thought and work some of these people (such as projectmayhem) put into their kids bikes. i just threw money at it til it stuck.

granted i wont be able to do, well, basically anything that costs money for the rest of the year, but sacrifice, tho noble, isn't the same as ingenuity and elbow grease.

i wonder how much fork business frog bikes wants to do. there's not just a hole in the 14/16/20" rigid w V bosses market, there's a vacuum.

mayhem: i forgot about your build thread and found it again. 

seriously good job!

you should tell frog bikes they'd make a killing on forks alone.

when will american companies learn? i guess, us yanks value looks over function, so thats why most of our kids bikes suck and you guys have real options.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

dave:

planning ahead helps too:

trek mountain bike


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Dave88LX said:


> really like what I'm seeing with the Spawn bikes. Just so much money! On the flipside, it will get a lot of years of use between the two girls. I suggested to my wife maybe getting a blue bike and adding pink accents like someone else here had done, and then converting it back when the boy is old enough but eh, my wife's a girl, thinks she should have a pink bike.
> 
> Watching my daughter in the store on the Hotrock reminded me of one thing I hate about coaster brakes -- sometimes you are stopped in a dead zone and can't get the pedals going again. Makes sense too that if the kids take their feet off to balance, there goes the brakes.


That last is EXACTLY why I got a Spawn 14" bike for my oldest. Especially when she's learning, it's really hard to get started if the pedals are in a "bad" position. At least until she's strong enough to lift up the whole bike... and, even then, she'd have to get OFF the bike to do it. Much easier to just move the pedals.

My oldest daughter got a Gremlin/Furi last May when she was ~3.5. At Christmas she got a Banshee, and the Gremlin is now passed down to her younger sister, who is almost three. She'll be on it by the end of the summer, I suspect... she has about 2 inches to go.

By the time I bought an Islabike or Hotrock and converted it to a freehub, it cost more than the Spawn bike. It was, in all honesty, an easy call, and one I'd make again. That freewheel MATTERS when you're learning much more than once you're out and about The US apparently has a law that all "sidewalk" bikes must have a coaster brake... apparently they're worried about kids locking up their front wheels and doing an endo. Personally, I'm much more concerned with them locking up the rear wheel and skidding into something. My girls have had zero trouble with the hand brakes, and aren't near locking them up yet. By the time they're strong enough to do so, they'll have enough experience to modulate.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

evandy:

https://www.danscomp.com/products/899464/Strider_Mini_Seat|Post_Combo.html

and:

Amazon.com: Wheels Manufacturing Seatpost Shim - 22.2-25.4: Sports & Outdoors

will lower the seat a lil more than an inch.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ilmfat said:


> Def not a good deal.
> 
> The gnoc16 is a heck of a lot of bike for the price. Nothing really comes close in a 16" dual V.
> 
> ...


 Thanks man. It's mostly that I got really lucky and ended up with a kid who was plain born to ride. I just keep trying to feed his stoke as much as I can and it's ended exposing me to a lot of aspects of riding I really didn't have any sort of experience with previously, as I was always pretty strictly an mtber.

Dave - there's always plenty of us old fellas making ourselves look silly in the cruiser class on MTBs too. Visit the track and check out the scene sometime - we had a LOT of great times there, and people are super-helpful to beginners IME. They also tend to give out trophies like candy, and you know how much kids looove trophies.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

ilmfat said:


> evandy:
> 
> https://www.danscomp.com/products/899464/Strider_Mini_Seat|Post_Combo.html
> 
> ...


Hmmm. She has a strider already, so have half already. Good to know. Thanks!


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

:thumbsup:

just double check the post size, as i was thinking banshee. 

i dont know the gremlin/furi post size, but i DO know the banshee and savage are different.

if its a 22.2 already, no need for adaptor.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I asked my wife if she had a budget in mind. "I don't know."
Well, the bike I like is $400. "That's ridiculous." 

Hmm.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Does she ride?

It'll be easier to talk her into it if she does.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

In the wife's defense, unless you're pretty sure your kid is really going to get into it, that is a big chunk of coin to spend on a little bike. They are sweet though, and since you've got a few other riders in the making, you should get a good ROI in the long run. 

You can always work the 'it's really not all that bad compared to hockey' or 'cheaper than a day at Disney'/ 'not much more than a full cart of groceries' angles, then throw in the solid resale potential and see if it flies. Good luck!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Yeah that's my biggest fear too... What if she doesn't even like riding. I think all kids like riding though, or at least I assume they do.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Dave88LX said:


> Well, the bike I like is $400. "That's ridiculous."


Nono no... put it like this:

I'd really like to get her a bike with a freewheel, so it's easier for her to learn how to ride. But, it'll cost a fortune to change around anything I can find near us. Do you mind if I order one from Canada? It's super light, well reviewed, and doesn't need any changes. And we can resell it when she grows out of it and get most of our money back...

Something like that will go MUCH better. 

EDIT:


Dave88LX said:


> Yeah that's my biggest fear too... What if she doesn't even like riding. I think all kids like riding though, or at least I assume they do.


That one's a little tougher. Is she interested in it at all now? I started my girls off on balance bikes and they were SUPER stoked to be riding, so at least that's not a concern.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I'm lucky, in that my wife rides too. So it's not just a daddy and kids thing, it's a family thing. 

It's such a strong pull that my youngest was crying from fear the first few times I took her out, but five minutes after getting off the bike she said she likes to ride. Her confidence is highest at the skatepark and she wants to go everyday. 

Plus, bribe her. Give her an ice cream when she does well. 

Or some such. 

As far as the convincing goes,

"So it's really only $133 per kid. Which, yes, I understand we can get a $50 bike, but it won't make it through 1 kid, much less 3. And I guarantee they will ride the good bike AT LEAST 3x as much, so that's the cost right there. That and the fact that a WELL USED spawn will fetch AT LEAST 50% of retail when we offload it. Thus, it would be fiscally irresponsible to NOT get the spawn."

Feel free to polish and tailor that for maximum persuasive impact based on your wife's psych profile. 

Your WELcome. 

Ooh ooh. 

That part of PA is fairly hilly if I recall correctly. 

"Honey the spawn bike is immeasurably safer than u-brake/coaster brake. Isn't our children's safety important?"

Actually, lead with the safety aspect, otherwise it seems like a weak excuse. 

Unless she rides. 

If she rides, find a huffy w u-brakes and have her take it out, then get back on her bike. 

"Now imagine that bike weighed half as much as you and you were learning to ride on it."

Or some such. 

Your doubly welcome.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I do like the "converting a cheap bike to be as safe is expensive"

And 

"Cheaper than a day at Disney" arguments. 

Guys, I think we might be a bad influence.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Oh, and btdubs,

I got one of the few pink 2nd gen banshees. 

The pink disappeared off their website and purple took its place. 

So a purple banshee this year and a pink savage next year. 

Think green accents on a purple frame for the little guy.

Or there's always a rattle can.


EDIT: just talked to spawn. 

They are indeed pink. NOT purple.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

You guys are good. I'm not a good influence either --I drag race and offroad. I'm well used to throwing parts and money at stuff!


I did mention the brakes earlier. "I had coaster brakes, they were fine.":skep:

Oh, that Banshee color is purple? Thought it was pink...woops.

I just looked at the Savage 1.0 -- $600...holy balls. Definitely won't be going that path! At least there are a ton of good 20" bikes out there for a reasonable price.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Not for sure on the color. Person doing their website might have clicked the wrong shade of pink when they put it back up, but the pink on the others match up. 

Sounds like it's gonna be a tough sell. My condolences. 

Tho, "coaster brakes may have been fine for you, but did you go MTBing w your dad? Cause MY kids ARE GOING TO ride trails with theirs" (I wouldn't necessarily play that one TOO hard tho).

And then there is always the "easier to ask forgiveness" philosophy. (Thank you Ben franklin).

Either way, good luck yo.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Dave88LX said:


> And then there is always the "easier to ask forgiveness" philosophy. (Thank you Ben franklin).


Too bad he already asked!

My wife found out how much the Gremlin cost when we were ordering teh Banshee for christmas. At that point, she already saw how much the girls loved their "Skull and Pedals" bikes, so it wasn't a problem any more.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I saw this and got excited until I looked it up and saw it was Toys-R-Us and 2 hours away. Not driving 4 hours for that.

16" Dynacraft Tony Hawk Magnolia BMX

Also, I believe it's 18" not 16".

Oh, same bike (w/ accessories) 1.5 hours away.
18" Girls Bike


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

The only thing close to the banshee America has (except the isla, which is a new arrival, so I don't count it) is the schwinn Mesa. 

The spawn is more than worth the price jump, but you DO have a fall back, "compromise" option if you absolutely can't swing her to ur side. 

And THAT one you HAVENT asked for. 

And then next year u can go isla beinn20 (which by my un-trained ms paint calibrated eyeball has 1" lower seat tube), with the "forgiveness plan".

When I was waffling between the isla and spawn, I was shocked when my (normally VERY frugal) wife wanted the savage for our 5 year old.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Those 990s are better than u-brakes. Well, a lil better. 

I still vote this:

It's a 20 inch, but the seat tube I fairly low. 

Mini seat mod w 18" inseam will do it.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> The only thing close to the banshee America has (except the isla, which is a new arrival, so I don't count it) is the schwinn Mesa.


I see the Mesa has front/rear "alloy" V-brakes and coaster brakes. I'm sure it's been covered 100x on here, but what's the cost/difficulty of converting to a freewheel?



> The spawn is more than worth the price jump, but you DO have a fall back, "compromise" option if you absolutely can't swing her to ur side.
> 
> And THAT one you HAVENT asked for.


OK, let me ask. What is the compromise option? Haha...



> And then next year u can go isla beinn20 (which by my un-trained ms paint calibrated eyeball has 1" lower seat tube), with the "forgiveness plan".
> 
> When I was waffling between the isla and spawn, I was shocked when my (normally VERY frugal) wife wanted the savage for our 5 year old.


Forgiveness plan?

Well, next year might be different. We just moved into this new house and have expenses out the wazoo. I'm actually picking up our bikes from the old house tomorrow (Mongoose Alta Pro for me, Quest Crestwood for her ... both Dick's bikes). Maybe if we both get into riding around here, the expense justification will come naturally.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> Those 990s are better than u-brakes. Well, a lil better.
> 
> I still vote this:
> 
> ...


OK had to look up what 990s were.

Did you mean to put something after "I still vote this:" ?

I saw the mini seat mod mentioned earlier too. What is it exactly?

Here's her on the Hotrock16. It does seem size-wise (not confidence-wise) she will be at a 20" fairly soon.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Forgot the link(again).

Five Bikes

It's the schwinn, 4th pic.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

There's always this.

I don't know the process, but peeps seem to love em.

Evolution Bike Company

Prolly pricey tho.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

*gasp* a Target bike?!?  I'm looking around CL too. I'm so on the fence on which way to go. She's almost out of a 16", so a short 20" would be good; on the other hand the 16" would go to the sister anyways. Bleh.

How is Raleigh?
20" Girls Raleigh Jazzi Bike, 2 years old, Garage-kept
(new model: Raleigh Bicycles - Jazzi )

Get powdercoat...haha
20" Boy's (or Girl's) Specialized Hotrock

I'm sure this is too heavy/over the top.
20" Mongoose Slyde Girls BMX Bike


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

A mini seat (the strider specifically) gets you 1" to 1 1/2" lower than regular posts. 

Tho the posts with detachable clamp mechanisms, u can turn them upside down and it mitigates the savings. 

But the mini seats got bling.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Honestly, even with all my high priced bling bikes, I'd pick up that schwinn if it was in my neighborhood. Cause I'm making friends w my neighbors, and their kids need bikes, too. 

"Easier to ask forgiveness than permission". The compromise option is the schwinn Mesa. 

It's been a few years (quite a few) but we used to cheaply remove coaster breaks when I was a kid. 

I think. 

I'll look it up. 

I love this Shiz.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Wow.

I like that purple Raleigh.

Looks like the spesh has about an inch lower seat tube.

Found a thread for de-coaster breaking.

if you remove the coaster brake arm, will it just be a freewheel?

I can't keep up with the posts.

Lol.

The schwinn isn't much worse than the spesh.

Tho wheels may be a lil better.

They will all take the same amount of work to get "trail-able", which is how I view kids bikes.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Fortunately I never had a coaster brake. My old Royce Union broke the head tube clean off the top/down tubes after landing a big jump. Had to carry it home in two pieces, still connected by the brake cables. :rockon: Got a hand-me-down Schwinn Predator after that.

What exactly were the pros about that Schwinn again? It's short?

EDIT: found it I think. Looks to be a 2002-ish.
Used Schwinn Boys Falcon Bicycle in Red Black Color with 2 New Tire Tubes | eBay

2002 Schwinn Falcon - BMXmuseum.com


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

im back on a computer instead of a dumb phone, so i might keep up.

Other than wheels, it's not much different than the others.

Heavy crank, threaded stem, no front brake.

Lower seat post and $90 cheaper. (Tho those 20" spesh DO have low seat tubes, tho.)

Hot rock vs schwinn, your essentially paying $90 for the name.

At least the Raleigh has, not just good, but DOPE paint. but if you're gonna drive that far, you got lots of options.

this is the closest to gold youre gonna get:

For Sale: Raleigh Rowdy Youth Trail Bike

problem is the seat tube and BB are fairly high.

i'd go with this:

Trek jet 20" blue bike

lower seat tube and cheaper than the spesh and better wheels than the schwinns.

id scoop up the cheap schwinns for my neighbors, but if i was gonna get one for my kid as her first pedal bike, itd be hard to beat the trek for the money


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## Steve71 (Mar 15, 2004)

Maybe there's such a thing as a good coaster brake, but I don't have fond memories of the ones I used. Horrible modulation.

And it's a dead end. Kids have to unlearn it when they go to hand brakes and that process usually involves some 'dirty diaper' moments when they back pedal the new bike to discover they don't have any brakes. Then comes the shin slam because there's no resistance like they're used to on a coaster bike. Nasty when you think about it.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Amen. 

When taking a kid from coaster to Vs, I remove pedals, have them use it as a push bike to get used to the brakes. 

Even starting my 3 yr old on the banshee, I got her used to the brake first. She lost track of braking a lil when we started working on pedaling. but then she learned I knew she could do it and didn't help anymore. After 2-3 crashes she remembered her braking lessons WITH A QUICKNESS.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Dave88LX said:


> I see the Mesa has front/rear "alloy" V-brakes and coaster brakes. I'm sure it's been covered 100x on here, but what's the cost/difficulty of converting to a freewheel?


Only way I know is to clip out the old hub and thread in a new one... How are your wheelbuilding skills?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave88LX said:


> Here's her on the Hotrock16. It does seem size-wise (not confidence-wise) she will be at a 20" fairly soon.


Maybe she could physically make a 20" roll around, but IMO, she would get a whole lot more out of spending a couple seasons on that 16" before moving to an 18", and then to a 20". FWIW, my son is about 60" and for a non-race BMX bike, he still benefits a ton from the extra room he's got on the 18" wheels. He stuck with the 16" for a long time, and I really believe it made a huge difference in his confidence and handling skills. This is from one of the last 16" rides, just after he turned 8. he could throw that thing around like nobody's business.










This is on the 18" that he's still riding now at almost 10.  He can easily ride a 26" around, but it severely limits him to doing pretty much nothing but sitting an pedaling (what he calls 'old man riding').










Of course, this has a lot to do with the type and level of riding you're hoping they're going to do. I kind of let mine find his own way as far as that, and he ended up by gravitating towards the BMX park/DJ stuff best (he really only gets excited abouts MTBing when there's a chairlift involved), so feeding into that style of riding drives a lot of our bike choices. I personally am absolutely convinced of 2 things tho - starting out with BMX will turn a anyone into a much better rider, and too many people rush their kids onto bigger bikes before they've had a chance to develop their handling skills.

This doesn't really matter I guess if you just wanting to do some recreational pedaling, or if you're looking to get a kid into XC or road riding/racing at a young age where handling skills aren't as important as fitness, but most of the best MTBers I know of got their start riding BMX, and there are a lot of good reasons for that. The bikes are kind of different animals though; I see you're still kind of going back and forth with your choice of style at this point, so it's a little tough for me to give specific recommendations of particulars when it comes to bikes. I personally wouldn't be looking to spend $400 until I had a clearer idea of what my kid likes to do. YMMV or course.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Darn it, slap head. 

The gas to drive an hour away is gonna really hurt. 

But, god help me, I wanna sign my kid up for bmx now. 

She does have the mini collecting dust. 

And all the pads and everything...


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

ilmfat said:


> Darn it, slap head.
> 
> The gas to drive an hour away is gonna really hurt.
> 
> ...


DO IT!!! An hour's nothing.

:thumbsup:


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Just posted new thread about crank length.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I'll catch up to everything later, I just got home after being out all day in my truck listening to my 3-year-old's stories. LOL

This just popped up a few hours ago. Too big/too much bike right now. Almost want to snag it for "later".
Specialized Girls 20" Hotrock bicycles 6-speed

Ack, nevermind, 2-1/2 hours away. Darn Craigslist "local" tricking me. I don't know any of the towns around here yet without looking them up.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

slapheadmofo said:


> Maybe she could physically make a 20" roll around, but IMO, she would get a whole lot more out of spending a couple seasons on that 16" before moving to an 18", and then to a 20". FWIW, my son is about 50" and for a non-race BMX bike, he still benefits a ton from the extra room he's got on the 18" wheels. He stuck with the 16" for a long time, and I really believe it made a huge difference in his confidence and handling skills. This is from one of the last 16" rides, just after he turned 8. he could throw that thing around like nobody's business.


Thanks for the posts/pics/advice, those pics are awesome. No idea what direction she'll want to take. I think what my best option is to see what might pop up on CL, or pick up a new Hotrock16, Lil Pudd'n, Schwinn Mesa, Islabike CNOC16, OK got to finish this later.

KIDSKIDSKIDS got to go get my hair done.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Btw,

Lil puddn=12" wheels. 

Pudd'n=16" wheels.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Had to go back and edit my post, kid is 60" now, not 50". Oops.

I think any of those options would work our fine for you guys, particularly CL. Just have to wait a little sometimes, but there are some decent deals out there to be had.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Good catch, Pudd'n! Typing with one kid doing my hair and the other one pulling my arm.

Me. Every day.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I see the lucky Brits get multiple color options with their Islabikes. Why is only red offered in the U.S.? Oh, and real brakes. Because their country isn't run by idiots and lets Darwin take its course.

Islabikes Cnoc 16 - lightweight first bike for kids age 4+


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Amen, Bruhda. 

No plans to bring em in either. 

That's a schnazzy pink, too.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

While we are wishing...

It'd be nice if those £ prices were $ prices for us.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I haven't searched, maybe the answer is here -- but is there a reason why it's not offered here?

Looks like Redline got around the "sidewalk bike" rule on their Pitboss bikes.
2014 Proline Pitboss | Redline Bicycles
14 lbs. 6 oz.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> Amen, Bruhda.
> 
> No plans to bring em in either.
> 
> That's a schnazzy pink, too.


It sure is! I just joined the local BMX group FB page to see if anyone has anything they're looking to offload.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Just popped up an hour ago.

Giant 16 inch boys bike


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Meh. Hi-ten steel frame/fork, steel rims, one piece crank. Might as well be walmart bike.

I'm more interested in this:

BOYS & GIRLS BIKES

Ain't nuthin TOO special, but the first one can be converted to Vs.

I know it's a 20", but plan ahead.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Should be the boy version of the Pudd'n... No?


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Girls Bike 16 inch

Still better than the red animator.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Maybs. 

Looks like the puddn might have alloy rims, which will save a lil weight. Hypothetically at least.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Pudd'n says steel wheels too. I've Written twice to the link Pudd'n but no response.  Wish they would.



ilmfat said:


> Girls Bike 16 inch
> 
> Still better than the red animator.


Should be the same bike as the Animator if I'm not mistaken?


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

My kid's first 'nice' bike was a Pitboss; they are quit a bit more than a typical 'sidewalk' bike. Once he had won a couple BMX races was when we (well, his grandparents) went ahead and got him a more race-specific ride. Still have it as a matter of fact. Nice little bikes. 
I really wouldn't sweat hi-ten steel vs a chromoly much at this point. 
Your kid will not notice the difference a bit. 

Good idea checking out the local BMX page.

Off to the skatepark to try and get some riding in before the rain!


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I started Gwen on a walmart bike that was too small and she still had fun. 

LOVED IT, in fact. 

That red giant should do just fine.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Yeah...I finally had a chance to e-mail about it but it wasn't until 10 o'clock.

I kind of hate you people. Feeding into my already-existing "can't leave well enough alone" mentality. "Just buy a bike!" "Yeah but what if I just do this, this, and that." "Dude, it's a bike for a 5-year old!" "Yeah but coaster brakes suck! What kind of brakes can I upgrade each bike to?" "Dude she's five!"

On and on and on. I stopped by a different local store today but they only had Trek Mystic. Didn't excite me (or her for that matter).

Told her we might buy another colored bike and that we could paint it. That was pretty exciting to her, but, not to me when she said she wanted to paint it like a rainbow.:nono:

We played around with this site a bit, she had a lot of fun with it. Bonus -- teaching her how to spell things and what the different parts of the bike were.

bmxcolor bike painting application


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

pssshhhh

"only five"

come at me bro!









lil sis is "only 3"









and rides this (pic is pre-bling):









she went from push bike (which shed only been lifting her feet up for 2 weeks) to riding this unassisted in 3 weeks.

in fact, just today she passed on her knee/elbow pads for the first time ever.

i pushed her hard, and she cried alot, but she loves riding her bike now.

(i dont advocate pushing your kids to the point of tears as blanket advice, i just knew it would work for my kid.)

it helps that the whole fam rides (mommy too):









your kid will enjoy riding with you, no matter the bike.

but i am "kind of" over the top.

are coaster brakes "adequate"? yes.

but i want my girls to be more than "adequate" riders.

so they need better than average equipment to be hitting the idaho trails before most kids can take off their training wheels.

but i, admittedly, have different priorities than most.

whenever i see a "which bike for my kid", i think in terms of trail ability.

i have a projection problem.

or so ive been told.

alot!


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave88LX said:


> I kind of hate you people. Feeding into my already-existing "can't leave well enough alone" mentality. "Just buy a bike!" "Yeah but what if I just do this, this, and that." "Dude, it's a bike for a 5-year old!" "Yeah but coaster brakes suck! What kind of brakes can I upgrade each bike to?" "Dude she's five!"


 Hehehe...good point. Ya know, it's tough to give advice on stuff like this. Everybody has their own angle, and nobody really knows each other at all, so there's so many variables it's silly. We can only make assumptions about what others are trying to get out of it, what sort of budget works, the kids' personalities and interests, etc.

Of course, people spouting advice are into riding ourselves, so we've probably got a kind of skewed perspective on what you actually 'need'. Though it's great that there are some really sweet kids' bikes out there these days, I don't know that I would invest in one off the bat. The more you spend, the more you can tailor a bike towards the kids interests. She might not give a damn about jumps but just want to cruise for miles on pavement. Or she might get all BMXy. Or she might say screw bikes, I want to ride horses. ( At which point, bikes can come across as comparatively cheap again. )

In general, I'd say bag a 16" off CL for (well) under $100 that you and your daughter like the look of and just start riding it, and go from there. Not likely it's the last bike you're gonna buy, no need to overthink it or overspend on it. Just get her riding with you, follow her lead, and let the rest figure itself out.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I'd plus rep slaphead for that, but I'm not allowed to, since he was the last person I rep'd. 

Good advice, yo.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Thanks for that bmx painting app!


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## kao (Mar 28, 2014)

I am plan to buy a bike for my 6 years old boy. Thank you for your share.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I'll hit the rest of the thread up later... You did say think if the future right? LMAO

(12) 20" BMX Bikes $120:Redline,Specialized,Mongoose

On a side note, screw these "Danville" people. (Have my search settings wide looking at lawn tractors).

danville all for sale / wanted classifieds "hotrock" - craigslist


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

LAWN TRACTORS?!?!?!?!?!?

:madmax:

Get a push mower and a spawn banshee!

Or at least a gnoc16.

Lawn tractor. 

Psssshhhhh.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Turn your lawn into a pump track. 

2 birds, one stone. 

You're WELcome.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh the thought has already crossed my mind! Already have berms!  I will load a pic when I get off my phone.

This popped a few mins ago. Waiting to hear back.

Boys Specialized HotRock 16" Bike


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Nice!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Other person replied about that red Giant bike "Tube rail says custom 10/20 steel tubing"...strange, thought it would be aluminum. Maybe it's older, or something, thought the newer ones were aluminum. Again, just me being over-analytical. Which, I have the time to do. 

OK here's what I wanted to post before. Property has a large drainage detention basin, as you can see, it really works, as the water fills up everywhere else in the yard (LOL).

Already got a berm set up! Tough to tell but the whole property slopes towards the back. Pretty sure that is on my wife's "no" list though haha.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

slapheadmofo said:


> Hehehe...good point. Ya know, it's tough to give advice on stuff like this. Everybody has their own angle, and nobody really knows each other at all, so there's so many variables it's silly. We can only make assumptions about what others are trying to get out of it, what sort of budget works, the kids' personalities and interests, etc.
> 
> Of course, people spouting advice are into riding ourselves, so we've probably got a kind of skewed perspective on what you actually 'need'. Though it's great that there are some really sweet kids' bikes out there these days, I don't know that I would invest in one off the bat. The more you spend, the more you can tailor a bike towards the kids interests. She might not give a damn about jumps but just want to cruise for miles on pavement. Or she might get all BMXy. Or she might say screw bikes, I want to ride horses. ( At which point, bikes can come across as comparatively cheap again. )
> 
> In general, I'd say bag a 16" off CL for (well) under $100 that you and your daughter like the look of and just start riding it, and go from there. Not likely it's the last bike you're gonna buy, no need to overthink it or overspend on it. Just get her riding with you, follow her lead, and let the rest figure itself out.


I used to work at a farm supply store as a teenager. I will steer her away from horses ANY chance I can get! I know how much horse food/hay/bedding etc. cost in the 90s. I can't imagine it now. I'm OK with bikes, ATV, dirt bikes, go-karts, mini dragsters, guns, but no horses! Haha.

Great advice though. I think as long as she has a basket to throw a couple stuffed animals in, she'll be happy LOL. We'll see what I can score off CL.

I didn't know about the rep system...I'll have to do that.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

i rescind my lawn tractor irritation.

id want a lawn tractor, also.

we were looking at a house with a coupla acres, with 1/2 an acre on the side of a hill, so useless for anything else.

woulda been an awesome spot for a pump track.

alas, the house itself was gawd awful.

we're lucky cause we are 5 minutes from a HUGE trail network.

and a 2 min ride to 2 miles of bike path that terminates at a "nature park" with dirt jumps.

i LOVE idaho.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Mini dragster...now THAT sounds fun.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Ta-Da. Picked that one up today in a friggen' snowstorm. Who the hell knew it was snowing tonight...LOL. Needs a front tube, got it for $50. Mechanically solid, nothing weird about it. Missing the chain guard/kick stand/reflectors/training wheels...you know, the typical stuff EVERY boy throws into the trash can the minute they get a bike. Just as an FYI, it weighs 17 lbs. as it sits.

I put an ad on Craigslist looking for good 16" bikes. I got this response:


> Dave,
> 
> My daughter recently turned 7 and my boy is almost 5. I have a total of three Specialized Hotrock girls bikes, all purple, one 16" and the other two are 20". I need to definitely keep one 20" bikes for my daughter. My son still needs, at least for one more year, on a 16" bike. If I could find a boys Specialized Hotrock 16" bike then I could sell the 16" Hotrock.
> 
> ...


He's selling the Hotrocks for $75 each I believe according to my other e-mail. I'm going to see if he'll trade across the 16" bikes, probably with a little extra cash on my side since he's got the nicer bike. This would be perfect if I can trade, saves me from having to paint the frame.

Should I grab the 20" Hotrock for $75 too for the hell of it?

Even as it sits, she loves it and is just so excited about it; I'm excited for her. She wants me to paint a kitty and a unicorn and fruit and all this other junk on it. LOL...I'll tell her we can put a number plate on the handlebars and she can put whatever she wants on there.

So, on to the pictures. Bike is definitely a bike that's been ridden, not one sitting in the garage collecting dust. Has it's scratches and chips, but nothing major. Hey, it rides.

HUGE thanks to everyone here for all of their help! Well, phase one down. Next comes the teaching-to-ride, and the customizations.
































































Here are the two purple Hotrocks.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

She could prolly fit that 20" now. 

I say do it!

Not gonna find a much better deal. 

My girl loved her hotrock. 

And, frankly, I'm a lil jelly of the flip flop hub and horizantal dropouts.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

The whats and the whats?


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Lookin up links.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Glossary Dr-Dy

Technically they are "track fork ends".

They simplify making a bike a single speed.

The savage has vertical dropouts.

Flip flop hub takes a threaded freewheel, also simplifying single speed conversion.

Get the 20", and while she is learning on the 16", send the fork to:


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Typical Seatstay Repair at Yellow Jersey

Half way down page, they add V bosses.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

QUOTE=ilmfat;11093628]evandy:

https://www.danscomp.com/products/899464/Strider_Mini_Seat|Post_Combo.html

and:

Amazon.com: Wheels Manufacturing Seatpost Shim - 22.2-25.4: Sports & Outdoors

will lower the seat a lil more than an inch.[/QUOTE]

For future information... the seat of the Burley MyKick balance bike is just as low as the strider, and has a seat post that fits in the gremlin / banshee without a shim. Having both the Strider and MyKick, I have to say that the MyKick is nicer and more stable... though the seat on the strider goes lower.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

nice!

too bad i couldnt find just the seat for sale.

not that i need one. 

i just love options.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Glossary Dr-Dy
> 
> Technically they are "track fork ends".
> 
> ...


I never liked trying to perfectly adjust the chain tension and wheel alignment. I'll have to search and see if there's a trick to it.

Threaded freewheel? Does this have anything to do with being able to easily disengage the coaster brake?

If I'm reading the YellowJersey site correctly, it's $15/set for the bosses for V-Brakes?


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

"I never liked trying to perfectly adjust the chain tension and wheel alignment.", you say?

i just happen to have a hotrock 20 vertical dropout frame. tho it is a black and white '03.

Bmx Chain Adjusters at Danscomp definitely help.

also:

Problem Solvers Chain Tensioner W/Hanger > Components > Drivetrain > Derailleur Hangers | Jenson USA Online Bike Shop

the coaster brake mechanism is internal. you'll need to take the hub apart to remove some stuff. ive never done it, so i cant comment.

also, no experience with yellowjersey, YET, but i got that impression also.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Oof, I'd always seen those chain adjusters on the rich kids' bikes when I was a kid, was so jealous of them!

Danscomp is a decent store? I see them mentioned a lot.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Did they go from a 9/16" pedal to a 1/2" pedal?

2012:
Specialized Bicycle Components

2014:
Specialized Bicycle Components

Unsure of my year. Need to figure out a lot.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

I use danscomp ALOT!

Great for blingy bits and they gots the kid size pads/helmets. 

All 1 pc cranks use 1/2" pedals. 

2 and 3 pc cranks use 9/16". 

I spose it's POSSIBLE that the '12 used a 9/16 pedal, but it's ALOT more likely it's a misprint. 

Lemme do some digging.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

did you trade for the purple?


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Well I did find that the current bike is a 2008 version:
Specialized Bicycle Components

The purple is either a 2011 or 2012.
Specialized Bicycle Components

Specialized Bicycle Components


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

ilmfat said:


> did you trade for the purple?


I wrote back to him late tonight but haven't heard anything back yet.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

no differenc between the '11 and '12.

the 9'16 pedal size quoted pretty much has to be a misprint.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I assume they're referring to the thread itself... I have a thread gauge somewhere I can check.

Or hell put some 3-pc in there! j/k.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Universal Cycles -- Truvativ American to Euro BB-Shell Conversion


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

A what now! I have more reading to do it seems LMAO


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

the bottom bracket on bikes with a one piece crank use an american bottom bracket.

most mountain bikes (until a few years ago) use a Euro bottom bracket.

the hotrock 16s and THAT purple hotrock 20 use 1 pc cranks.

that adaptor enables the installation of a square taper (or isis or octalink) bottom bracket.

you'll want square taper. lots more options.

but that isnt necessary yet.

i advise against putting too much into the 16", and save your pennies to make the 20" trailable.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Sheldon Brown's Bicycle Glossary Cn--Cz

scroll down to cotterless cranks.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Alright check those out soon.

Just heard from Mr. Purple Bikes. Said he'd trade his 20" for my 16" and asked if I'd pay $100 for his 16". Averages to $75/bike...Works out good for me considering his is in a good bit better shape than mine.

Just gotta throw a tube in the front of this one.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Game on!

Congrats man. Looking forward to some action shots.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Nice!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Alright! She was happy with "any" bike, but, she's really excited with the purple bike now. His little boy was excited about the boy's bike with the little superheroes on it. Looks like we all won.

Taught her how to change the tube on the old bike before we traded them. Made her put the tube in herself, that was fun to watch.

I stopped by a LBS called Gung Ho Bikes, York, PA, but they didn't have anything hardly accessory-wise or for kids. I didn't even see any 16" tubes/tires. The purple bikes were out near Ephrata, PA. I stopped at Martin's Bike Shop out there to take a look around. They at least had an inventory of kid stuff, and I was able to get her her pair of gloves there that she's oh-so-excited about.

Gotta make a few adjustments and she can start learning to ride. In the meanwhile I'll look up what size grips I need etc.

Anyways, here's a few pics for ya'll. I'll get some action shots as soon as I can.

Getting frustrated.









Turned to excitement.









Got 'em tightening the wheels back down.


















3-1/2 year old with her Strider. Going to keep an eye out for another 16" for her though. I'm not really a big fan of the plastic foamy tires.


















Aaaaand, after the trade much excitement with the purple one and her gloves.









Here's the 20".


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Nice one! A bit of perseverance certainly paid off


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Sure did! I need to shorten the rear axle width, they stick out ~1" past the nuts. I presume they were for the training wheels, but they've already bit her once in the Achilles -- not fun.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

3-year old is tearing it up on the Strider, zipping all around back and forth and all over. Older one is starting to get the hang of the bike.



















Pit-stop to throw some sand on the tires.









Which she fell down in not 30 seconds later...LOL...hand print for posterity.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

That 3.5 year old is more than big enough for a Gremlin/Furi... Maybe even a Banshee. Time to be on a pedal-bike.

Cheers, and enjoy riding with your girls. http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/spawn-gremlin-14-review-858969.html


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Cute kids.

Glad everything fell into place. Looks like she's really comfortable on it, she'll be ripping around in no time!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

evandy said:


> That 3.5 year old is more than big enough for a Gremlin/Furi... Maybe even a Banshee. Time to be on a pedal-bike.
> 
> Cheers, and enjoy riding with your girls. http://forums.mtbr.com/families-riding-kids/spawn-gremlin-14-review-858969.html


Yeah she is. She's only been riding the Strider for two days and she's tearing ass on it. I have her gloves coming tomorrow. I think a better quality helmet is in order for her too. She's fearless, does not care. I call her Honey Badger (if you've seen the video, you'll know what I'm talking about). She REALLY needs something with a brake I think...watch the video.



slapheadmofo said:


> Cute kids.
> 
> Glad everything fell into place. Looks like she's really comfortable on it, she'll be ripping around in no time!


Thanks! Surprisingly the younger one has picked it up way faster than the older one. I think I'm going to lower the older one's seat just a little bit and see if that gives her a little more confidence.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Yeah! That's what I'm talkin' about! Get her a full face helmet and get her to a track!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I wish I had a radar to see how fast she was coming down that hill. I think I'll pick her up a full-face, then put my phone in her pocket with the GPS program running...LOL


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4977

best deal going.

fairly light (one review said 900 grams) and reasonably priced. i spent a c-note more for my 3 yr olds helmet, and saved maybe 100 grams. wish ida just gone with one of these.

fly helmets run bigger, and heavier.

no experience with TLD.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Thanks I will check those out. I measured the little one's head just now, looks about 19.5" - 20" (49.5-50.8 cm).

I'm excited.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I bet my kids...yeah yeah...my kids...would love these bikes!

2001 Schwinn Pro Stock Team Race bike

Redline Flight - BMX


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Love the video


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave88LX said:


> I bet my kids...yeah yeah...my kids...would love these bikes!
> 
> 2001 Schwinn Pro Stock Team Race bike
> 
> Redline Flight - BMX


Way too big; those are adult sized bikes (believe it or not)...you're gonna want to be looking at 'mini' and 'micro-mini' sizes (if you end up getting into racing anyway). You can get these things under 10lbs if you get all weight-weenie (and like burning $$).


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Oh I was being sarcastic... I have bike envy now...and my mountain bike is boring around here with the kids! 

Going to give the BMX a shoot with them though.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Nice man, that's awesome. BMX is fairly popular in PA isn't it? How close are you guys to a track?

That Redline looks pretty sweet to me, not that I'm an expert by any means.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I'm not too sure how popular it is. There is a track that is 15 minutes from me: Bumps-N-Berms Home that I'm going to go check out with the girls. I was showing them YouTube videos and they seemed interested in trying it out at least, so we'll see. I have to see if they have the "Strider" racing like a lot of tracks do. My cousin's two kids race BMX so they've been feeding me some information too.

I'm 6'1", 200 lbs, so I would need to be pretty choosy about a bike being big enough. I do have that mountain bike, but I think a 20" framed bike like those above would be fun to screw around with in the neighborhood with my kids.

My wife is like "Oh, great, he's on to his next phase that will last 3 months until he finds something else" LOL.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

You'd be surprised what the kids'll suck you into. HB has the eye of the tiger there I think. 

That's awesome you have a track so close to you.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

15 minutes. 

I hate your face!


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## rrl (Sep 21, 2008)

just got the cannondale trail 16 single speed for my 5 year old kid...beautiful bike! paid 290dlls


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I'm hoping maybe we can check it out this weekend. My mom is coming in town to see her new grandbaby (we have a now 3 week old too).

Search for the 3.5 year old's pedal bike is in swing. She's 39" tall, 15.5" inseam _without_ shoes.

I *think* she would be able to work a 16" sized bike, I'm going to lower my Hotrock 16 all the way and see how she fits on that. If it's too big, I will probably shoot for a 14", unless anyone can think of any good reason I should buy a Hotrock 12 in blue, use that for a little bit and move her up, then save it (Hotrock 12) for baby brother.

I haven't looked much into the 14" size yet since I was looking at 16" before. Islabikes has the CNOC 14, have to see what else is out there.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Gnoc14s reasonably priced. It'd prolly fit the bill. 

Sounds like ull get plenty of use out of whatever u go with.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

I was going to ask if you've tried her on big sisters Hotrock 16. My 3 year old rides a 16" bike (he is 37" tall at the very most I think) but I wouldn't have wanted him to learn on it as he can only just get one toe to the ground! 

Hotrock 12 is very small - my son got his for his 2nd birthday when he was only about 32" tall. But if you could pick up a cheap second hand one and save it for your son then it would be worth it to learn on, I think. I f it helps before we got the Hotrock 12 my son learnt to ride on a heavy steel fixed gear bike with 10 inch plastic wheels!


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

But yes, Islabike Cnoc14 if you can.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Or this. 
Schwinn Stingray Choppers Bicycle GIRLS 16"

Lol


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

This is a "live blog" of my thought process as I opened the picture:

*Would you wanna pedal that on hills?

But, wait, how close are the grandparents?

Is it flat where they live?

That would be a dope "grampa/ma" house bike. 

What a ridiculous thought. 

But, wait, 

God help me,

That seat IS definitely low(ish).*

Yeah, I'd prolly do it.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

My reading comp skills suck. 

I didn't notice the 16" aspect. 

Put a front brake (at least) on it (the "long and low" geo will limit endo potential).

Take the crank off. 

It'd be a killer trail push bike.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

My wife is starting to question my sanity. Another time!

Going to show her the CNOC.

Here she is on the Hotrock 16. Maybe a little big, be more confident on the 14, dunno.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

I think with maybe a lower-rise set of bars, that's not a bad fit.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

+ 1

dave:

you're in trouble now, dude.

that kid was FEARLESS on the strider.

good luck stoppin her now.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

That looks perfectly reasonable for her to start with to me... the bars are maybe a little tall/wide, but that's minor. If it's laying on its side on the ground can she pick it up and put it upright? If so, I'd say that looks perfect.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I'm telling you man. Fearless is about right. I wish I had it on video when she went over the handlebars into the side of my wife's Mazda 5 -- she started laughing, picked the bike up, and started riding it back up the hill. All the parents standing around with their jaws dropped wondering what in the hell just happened. :lol: Does. Not. Care.

Strider is 6.7 lbs and she can pick that up and carry it at chest-height; the Hotrock 16 is 17 lbs...should be able to lift it back off the ground, but I'll try tomorrow.

Looks like a good bit of choices for a 2"-3" bar here.

REDLINE Aluminum Race Bar | 2.5" | 7.8 oz | $20
https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=864

SINZ Aluminum Bar | 2.25" | 8.4 oz $18
https://www.jrbicycles.com/storefront/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=4882

Stock looks to be:
4.5" rise
7.8" diameter
10° back sweep
2° up sweep

I'm spoiled with Amazon Prime shipping and all the places offering 'free shipping'...better put a full order together.


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## thesmokingman (Jan 17, 2009)

I would rather cut the bars down to bring her hands closer together than swap bars altogether. I don't think the the height of the bar is the issue, but the width. The width is monstrous. Imo a casual riding position is better for learning.


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

That's a darn good point.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

Dave88LX said:


> I'm telling you man. Fearless is about right. I wish I had it on video when she went over the handlebars into the side of my wife's Mazda 5 -- she started laughing, picked the bike up, and started riding it back up the hill. All the parents standing around with their jaws dropped wondering what in the hell just happened. :lol: Does. Not. Care.


Sounds like my oldest. Only thing that's phased her so far is when she turned too wide, went off the 3 foot concrete path near the river, and split her lip. And she STILL insisted on getting back on the bike immediately, even though she was crying so hard.


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## evandy (Oct 3, 2012)

thesmokingman said:


> I would rather cut the bars down to bring her hands closer together than swap bars altogether. I don't think the the height of the bar is the issue, but the width. The width is monstrous. Imo a casual riding position is better for learning.


Why cut them? Get some of the ESI Extra Chunky grips (super-long for the Jones 710 bars) and throw them on. Then she can move her hands in and out as much as she needs.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Could be the angle of the picture too or her not sitting still. Doesn't look AS high from teh side picture.

...and, DAMNIT, this one just popped up but it's on the other side of DC, about 2 hours away. Although, I did drive an hour each way both times for the other bike(s) hehe.

Specialized Hotrock 16 inch Girls Bike


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Well she had a blast at the BMX track. So so so proud of her. She was so anxious, she could hardly wait for her turn. The start line for balance bikes is about half way down the track, she kept backing up further and further, it was funny.

I asked her if she wanted to come back again and she said _no_. I asked her why, she said _because she wanted to stay here forever_...I have a feeling we'll be back a lot. Now to get her on pedals.

I was really proud too that she ate it 2-3 times but got right back up on her bike and kept on going. Are you OK? "Yeah, I need my bike, I want to win!"










After she saw the other people jumping, she started trying to jump off this little platform. :lol:









I'm the guy with the stupid orange shoes. (That's a whole different subject).


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dude - awesome.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Woops.

$220 for the blue one, $80 for the red one. Blue is the 2001 Team, red is the 2000 Comp I believe. Both AL frames, both very light. Not bad for $300 I don't think. These should be more fun to ride around than the mountain bikes.

Full size:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/xF8xy6AgHwWKF_yWlkwdII_g-QNgXGLUgVz7YeLOGZXH=w1457-h731-no


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## ilmfat (Mar 10, 2007)

Lol.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Can't wait to take it off some sweet jumps!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Next step: hand brake on the Hotrock 16. Going to see what I can dig up on here. Caliper brake will be better than no brake on this hill. Chime in if you already know what I need.


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## IdahoLee (Apr 7, 2014)

Nice choice on the Hotrock 16. My daughter started on one, and now it is being rebuilt for my son, who is 5 years old. People move their kids up in wheel size too fast in my opinion. My son still rides his Strider when he wants to take drops or jumps. This video is a little old, but here he is on the strider that I added hand brakes to. This was last summer. The green Strider is pre-brakes, the black Strider is the same bike with drum brakes added. He's been riding a Walmart 12" pedal bike since his 3rd birthday, and we are just now going to move him up to 16" for his 5th birthday, despite the fact that he can easily ride his sisters 20" BMX mini. Small wheels make the kid better able to handle the bike on more interesting terrain.






And by the way, I can help some with adding brakes to either of your kids' bikes. Hand brakes can be put on any bike. I'm pretty sure my daughter's Hotrock 16 was the only bike in history with a front disc and a rear coaster, at least for a little while.


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Somebody's gonna need a trials bike!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Man, that kid isn't screwing around! That video is awesome.

So, I have the v-brake bosses on order, and will be getting the Tektro mini v-brake kit.


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## IdahoLee (Apr 7, 2014)

It may sound funny, but whenever I want to inspire my kids, I show them youtube clips of the pros doing it, and then kids doing it, then we go do it. This has worked with many things, including trail running/parkour as well as biking. I follow this up with making a video of them that is as close to what the pros do as possible. Pretty soon the kids think that they are pros at whatever we have done, and they are hooked. The activity becomes part of their identity. In this case, I made a trials/BMX style video to convince my son he is a pro bike rider. As a result of this video, he is now part of our local bike park team, he was given a jersey to prove it, and the first video I made has been used for park advertisements. It has over 1000 youtube hits. Not exactly viral, but good for the park, and reenforces to my son that he is a pro. Pretty fun.

Bottom line, showing him videos of pros, then making one of him, makes him understand that he is a real biker. He now "practices" at least 1/2 hour daily. Concerts have the same effect for musicians. If you want to inspire a kid, make them a star.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

That is a really neat idea. I had shown her some grownups and kids doing things, but never thought to make her her own 'superstar' video. My video editing skills are terrible anyways. :lol:


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## slapheadmofo (Jun 9, 2006)

Dave88LX said:


> That is a really neat idea. I had shown her some grownups and kids doing things, but never thought to make her her own 'superstar' video. .


My kid still talks about how he was 'on TV' when he was little. 
A buddy of mine runs the Sunday River Bike Park operations and had us do some shooting for the local RSN channel trailer with my son 'DHing' on his Pit Boss when he was 4-ish. For the next few seasons, he'd reguarly spot himself on random TVs whenever we were up there (which was a lot). He got a real kick out of it.


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I grew up in Mass and used to go skiing up at Sunday River a bit. I'm sure it's changed ab it since the mid-90s. All I remember was everyone talking about _White Heat._


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

Update on the 5-year old...been an exciting summer so far.

She has had enough watching her younger (3) sister at the track, she wanted to at least try it out too. Signed her up for a one-day membership, and practice session.










Off to a decent start, bit rough and bumpy. This Redline (bought for the 3-year old, but cranks are too long, even for the 5-year old) is a bit faster than that Hotrock I assume due to the lack of a coaster brake (drag) and maybe better wheel bearings. I didn't think things out clearly and the next thing is my fault (from the start really).









Froze up coming down to the berm, picked up too much speed, and right up and over the top of it down the back side. Fortunately it was a lush landing with the weeds and overgrowth...for the both of us. I was running next to her the whole way around. When she started going up, I sprinted after her and jumped over the berm with her without even thinking. Landed on the other side of where she was and got her out of there. I don't know, I didn't even think about it when I jumped. Glad I didn't land on her or anything else, I just wanted to get to her as fast as I could. Wasn't hurt, just a little shaken up and lost a shoe. "I hate this bike I never want to ride again, I want to go home, this is stupid, etc. etc."



















Got her shoes back on and started walking back towards the other end of the track, walked maybe 50 feet, "OK, I want to try this again!" she told me. I think I damn near shed a tear, I was so stinkin' proud of her for wanting to get back up on the bike. Obviously took the rest of the track very timidly, but damnit, she made it around the whole track. I'll do things very differently next time I take her.


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## ProjectMayhem (Aug 23, 2013)

Well, done that is very brave


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

She's brave alright! Proud of her (them). They went out there again today, doing the lower half of the track alone!

So the neighbor across the street, she asked me to keep an eye out for a bike for her son who had outgrown his little 12" Hulk bike (like 6 months ago, but whatever LOL). I told her I'd take a look. This morning a Redline Pitboss popped up out near Philly for $130. I went back-and-forth with MYSELF about that bike, if I should pick it up as a replacement for the Hotrock that my other daughter is riding. Seriously contemplated it, but, I have 9 bikes in the garage already, I think I'm tapped out for the moment.

Sent it to my neighbor and said if YOU don't go get this bike, *I* will go and get it. He's picking it up after work tomorrow. I was surprised it was still there.

I believe it's a 2006.


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## NikeMan (Nov 4, 2014)

IdahoLee said:


> Nice choice on the Hotrock 16. My daughter started on one, and now it is being rebuilt for my son, who is 5 years old. People move their kids up in wheel size too fast in my opinion. My son still rides his Strider when he wants to take drops or jumps. This video is a little old, but here he is on the strider that I added hand brakes to. This was last summer. The green Strider is pre-brakes, the black Strider is the same bike with drum brakes added. He's been riding a Walmart 12" pedal bike since his 3rd birthday, and we are just now going to move him up to 16" for his 5th birthday, despite the fact that he can easily ride his sisters 20" BMX mini. Small wheels make the kid better able to handle the bike on more interesting terrain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Man! 2:30 --> in the video had me dropping my jaws!


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## Dave88LX (Aug 29, 2007)

I got tired of watching!:thumbsup:

Man, I had so much fun out there today. Absolute blast. Tiring too. I think I need to get back into better shape.

"Heck with those kids! If they want to win, they can try harder!" LMAO


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