# The struggle: 160mm, 180mm, or 200mm of travel?



## snowwcold55 (Jun 6, 2014)

Hey guys - 

I'm currently looking for a new steed that is a little more aggressive than my 2013 Marin XM7. I've begun bottoming it out fairly often, trying to push it a little too hard. I also don't want to change that bike at all, since I love it as my trail bike. 

But now, I want something that is a bit more capable. I'm an east coast rider, and ride MOSTLY trail - but I am looking to get into bigger stuff (bike parks, dh tracks like Mountain Creek, etc etc.)

So i've got a few bikes I've been looking at. 

Diamondback Mission Pro: 
It's a sweet bike - super good looking and comes in with about 160mm of travel. Looks like it can climb well and take downhill sections well enough. But my concern is that 160mm is just simply not a big enough difference from my XM7. 

Santa Cruz Nomad: 
Another gorgeous bike with a bit more travel than the Mission, and can still rip uphill when necessary. In a perfect world, I'd get a bike that can climb but also absolutely crush all burly sections thrown at it. Can this bike do that? Because if it can handle most everything an intermediate/advanced rider throws at it in the bike park, that'd probably work. 

Diamondback Cooper: 
Know next to nothing about this bike - I get good deals on DB, so figured I should include this thing. 180mm of travel. Defintely can't climb very well, but i'm sure it's pretty solid going down...

Airborne Toxin:
For the price, it looks like a really fun gravity bike. At this point, though, is it worth it to just up and get a DH sled?

Airborne Pathogen:
Throw a boxxer on this thing, get 200mm of travel, and it looks like i'd be all set. But for someone who doesn't ride downhill every weekend (maybe go twice a month) is this thing worth it? Is it too heavy for gravity, and more designed to just bomb?

Diamondback DB-8:
Another true downhill bike - anyone have any experience with this thing? Same questions asked as the Pathogen. Is it simply too much bike for the common mortal?

Obviously just looking for suggestions or testimonies. 

thanks :madman:


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## charging_rhinos (Jul 29, 2008)

First, I'd look at the kind of riding you'll be doing. Unless you have a dedicated group of friends who can drive shuttle cars or a season pass to a nearby bike park, I'd recommend not getting a full DH bike. If you think you'll pedal this bike on trails even a little bit, I'd go toward some sort of 'enduro' or aggressive AM geometry.

The amount of travel, in my opinion, isn't often a good a determining factor of 'how good' a bike will be. I'd look at the overall geometry and the quality of the bike and its components first. You can have all the travel in the world, but if it's got crappy geometry or components, it'll ride like a crappy bike.

On that note, there's no doubt which I'd choose from your list. Get the Nomad. It's worth the increase in price, no doubt about it. Better suspension linkage, stronger company backing it, and VERY capable geometry. Not to mention their well-proven carbon quality.


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

First, let me say: in nearly 30 years of riding, I've never, ever thought "I wish this bike had less travel." 
If you're trying to PR a climb, ride a hardtail. If you don't care how fast you get up and focus on having fun going down, more travel per se is never a bad thing.

But there's more to a bike than travel. There have been bikes like the Canfield One that have 8" of travel, but aren't downhill bikes (The One had a full-length seat tube, used a 142mm rear wheel/73mm BB and had a provision for a front derailleur). Most everything sold as a downhill bike doesn't have a full-length seat tube and thus the saddle can't really get to climbing height (the Toxin is the same way, you have to cut down the seatpost or it will hit the shock when you drop it. Which means you pretty much have to run a dropper if you intend to use it as an all-rounder, which makes the price a little less attractive - at least it would to me). A modern downhill bike for the most part can't do anything but downhill. A Nomad could be your only bike, a Pathogen or DB-8... probably not unless you aren't ever going to ride uphill.

From the bikes you listed, the Nomad is by far the best all rounder. It's also more than twice the price as the others. I demoed one earlier this year, followed by a Giant Reign. They were so similar I couldn't say I liked one more than the other, but the Reign was $800 less. I think someone shopping for a 160mm bike these days would be a fool not to look at some of the direct-sales bikes that have come out recently such as YT Capra (YT USA), Commencal Meta (2016 - Shop), or NS Snabb (N > NS Bikes | Jenson USA).


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## snowwcold55 (Jun 6, 2014)

Joules said:


> From the bikes you listed, the Nomad is by far the best all rounder. It's also more than twice the price as the others. I demoed one earlier this year, followed by a Giant Reign. They were so similar I couldn't say I liked one more than the other, but the Reign was $800 less. I think someone shopping for a 160mm bike these days would be a fool not to look at some of the direct-sales bikes that have come out recently such as YT Capra (YT USA), Commencal Meta (2016 - Shop), or NS Snabb (N > NS Bikes | Jenson USA).


Thanks for the help - here is the thing. I'm not planning on getting rid of my 140mm travel Marin - which can swallow just about all trail riding I throw at it. I'm looking for a bike I'll ride 75% down and 25% up, and that 25% up will be slow. Does anyone make a bike that climbs, albeit not well, but still actually can climb - and absolutely shreds downhill/bike parks?

It's a specific ask, obviously. But if you tell me a nomad fitted for big mountain riding can handle it, well, that may be the bike. Light, good amt of travel... I'm just concerned 165mm of travel/not that slack of geometry may not cut it when the speed starts becoming a serious factor (40mph+)


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## Joules (Oct 12, 2005)

IMO "absolutely shredding bike parks" is up to you, not the bike. If 65 degree HTA on the Nomad (vs 64 on the V10) is not slack enough for you, I think you may be kind of out of luck on the 25% part of your idea. The travel, in my experience, isn't going to make or break the bike - it's often said that what a true DH bike buys you is margin for error, I agree with that, the only times I get past about 160-170mm on my DH bike is when something hasn't gone as planned.

I don't know of any bike with a HTA slacker than 65 that has any ability to climb at all. I guess you could over-fork something - I wouldn't, but it's technically possible. Is there a DH bike you really love the handling that's convinced you that 65 is too steep?


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

Joules said:


> First, let me say: in nearly 30 years of riding, I've never, ever thought "I wish this bike had less travel."
> 
> ....or NS Snabb (N > NS Bikes | Jenson USA).


Surely you meant to suggest the NS Soda Evo Air. 

180mm travel! Also available via Jenson. Comes with 1x10 and an 11-36 cassette. I run mine with a 150mm dropper and I'm pretty sure it will fit 9point8's upcoming 200mm dropper because the seat tube is only 445mm (on the large). Came with 27.5 wheels, but also fits 26 and has a flipchip to shorten the chainstays for them.

I haven't taken it on lift-served trails yet since I also have a Jedi.... But I basically wanted something that rides like my Jedi, but with less weight, and this bike delivered.

There is also a coil-sprung version. That might be a bit better for lift served riding. Air was the obvious choice in my case, though. Not sure which to suggest for the OP... I should have taken this on a chairlift this summer just to see.


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## LarryFahn (Jul 19, 2005)

The Nomad is a great bike for what you're looking for. A buddy of mine has the 26" version with a Fox 36 180 fork and a dhx coil on the back. He rides half of Creek no problem and used that as his everything bike for quite some time.

My other buddy got the 650 Nomad and swears that this is the only bike he needs. 

Are you keeping the other bike? 

I personally like a dedicated DH bike for dh/park and my Remedy for regular riding. I know it's winter time and the last weekend of DH, but ride Creek on a DH bike first and see if you want a dedicated bike. By doing that, you might realize that you love DH and want to do it every weekend. I know my Remedy will handle some of Mtn Creek. I've been there on it and had a blast. But it won't take the abuse my Devinci Wilson does. 

If you get into DH and travel to Blue, Creek, Whiteface, Platty, the 160mm will be limiting you, plus they won't take the long term abuse of DH. If you go a couple times a year, then fine. 


Some stuff to think about. Ttyl, Fahn


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## Deerhill (Dec 21, 2009)

Have not seen that ns fuzz, looks pretty nice... 83mm bb only 8lbs (w/o shock)..edit, seems pretty light for frame that takes 9.5" shock


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## NWS (Jun 30, 2010)

snowwcold55 said:


> Thanks for the help - here is the thing. I'm not planning on getting rid of my 140mm travel Marin - which can swallow just about all trail riding I throw at it. I'm looking for a bike I'll ride 75% down and 25% up, and that 25% up will be slow. Does anyone make a bike that climbs, albeit not well, but still actually can climb - and absolutely shreds downhill/bike parks?


I didn't see this message the first time through.

Story time!

I got back into biking in 09 with a 140mm bike. Then a local mountain started doing DH in the summer... I bought an 8" no-conpromises DH bike (Canfield Jedi) in 2011. Took it to local trails to get used it and shake it down... Liked it. Stopped riding my 140mm bike, other than special occasions (just for the sake of variety, or when my DH bike was down for maintenance). 8" is way overkill for my local trails, but it feels like skiing in waist-deep powder. So plush and floaty.

This summer I bought a 7" air-sprung bike, and now that's my daily driver. 13 pounds lighter is nice, but if I could only have one bike, I think it would be the DH bike.

This is a long-winded way of saying that since you're keeping the trail bike, I think you should go all the way to 8" and dual crown for the new bike. You have the trail bike to fall back on for days when the DH bike feels like the wrong tool for the job. And for me at least, those days were extremely rare.


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## #1ORBUST (Sep 13, 2005)

This is dh/freeride forum.

Get the longest travel super monster T fork bike and huck that $hit. Uphill? I dont even know what that means. Like a chair lift?


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## shwinn8 (Feb 25, 2006)

Some girls say bigger is better.... Some say its all in how you use it


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## GoingNowhere (Oct 15, 2014)

#1ORBUST said:


> This is dh/freeride forum.
> 
> Get the longest travel super monster T fork bike and huck that $hit. Uphill? I dont even know what that means. Like a chair lift?


This. If you're thinking about DH get the big bike. I got my first dedicated dh rig this season and that's the only bike I wanna ride now.


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## woodyak (Jan 20, 2004)

Depends on how much park riding you'll actually do. If you live near a mountain and get a pass and are there all the time you might want to go with a full on DH Rig. If your just getting your feet wet and want to try it out and maybe get 5 to 10 days+ in the Nomad would be an awesome bike. That being said, as a fellow East Coast rider coming form a trail riding background I would highly recommend the Nomad for the type of riding your looking for. It is a very capable bike that can handle big hits and screams on the downhills. I've ridden Mountain Creek, Highland, Bromont, Whistler, Trestle, as well as other parks around the country and can honestly say I prefer the shorter travel burly bike for lift riding. I've never felt like I was being held back by the bike. I've ridden full on DH rigs in the park and while it's super fun I had a difficult time adapting to the geo and extra travel. 

My Nomad is also my trail bike so I have it built up on the burly but light side currently weighing in at just under 30 lbs. I have carbon rims with Grid tires for trail riding and for lift days I got a Stan's flow wheel set with DH tires that I can swap in real quick. I used to have a light duty trail bike but I ended up ditching it as I kept breaking it and I found I wasn't really any faster on it. The Nomad is a super capable trail bike and really is the quiver killer that people make it out to be. 

Just my .02.


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## Hextall (Nov 25, 2013)

snowwcold55 said:


> Airborne Toxin:
> For the price, it looks like a really fun gravity bike. At this point, though, is it worth it to just up and get a DH sled?
> 
> Airborne Pathogen:
> Throw a boxxer on this thing, get 200mm of travel, and it looks like i'd be all set. But for someone who doesn't ride downhill every weekend (maybe go twice a month) is this thing worth it? Is it too heavy for gravity, and more designed to just bomb?


I'm going to piggyback on SC55's thread (no new threads equals better, right?). I'm looking at both of these frames for my first bike build project. I plan on going to Highland a few times a year (probably about 6 times... two 3-packs), so keeping costs down is a plus, which is why I'm looking at airborne's offerings (both frames are on sale right now).

I'm leaning towards the Pathogen, mainly because I would assume it's a more stable and forgiving bike at the mediocre speeds I'll be riding. I'm not a fast rider, or overly adventurous (43 years and a healthy respect for avoiding personal injury). I've been to highland a few times now (rented a couple, used my trail bike once). Am I completely off base on the reasons for a Pathogen over the Toxin?

Again, my priority is to build a bike as i'm kind of itching for a new project over the winter months, so I'd rather not buy a used bike or a complete new one.


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