# New light weight internal gear hub: Kindernay



## Jan (Mar 8, 2004)

14 spd. Lighter than Rohloff. Hydraulic shifting.

Frontpage - Kindernay


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Ohhhh 
The cage swap is a very good idea.

Curious to know what is included @ 1400g.
A Rohloff with gearbox and 16t cog is 1780g


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

If it's strong enough for downhill use, if tend to think that the total weight of the system is going to be awfully close to a Rohloff.

Cage swap is a neat idea. It looks like it is only attached by the brake bolts, though... Must be rough on the hub shell.


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## Jan (Mar 8, 2004)

I think it's a slightly conical fit or something, so the forces goes there. The bolts are just holding this together.


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## Drew Diller (Jan 4, 2010)

The cage swap is a fine idea. Nice.

My money is still on gearboxes (within the frame, for cheap-hub and mass location reasons), but this new hub option looks really nice.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

The cage is cool. Hyd shifting is overly complex for something that should be an exercise in simplicity. I guess I get it....sealed, probably doesn't need much maintenance on a yearly basis, but what about cable routing, and how does it detach for tire swaps, or flat tires in the trial? 

I don't really get the obsession with gears. 14 is kind of ridiculous. I ride an Alfine8, and could easily live with nothing more than 1-3-5-7. Seems they could cut the gears down to 7, increase the strength, and also cut the weight significantly.


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## Sanchofula (Dec 30, 2007)

$1200 for the system, anyone bought in yet?


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## buell (Oct 15, 2015)

looks like it uses paddle shifters on either side of the bars. says nothing about the clamp diameter, at least as far as i can tell.


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## _CJ (May 1, 2014)

Nurse Ben said:


> $1200 for the system, anyone bought in yet?


oh yeah, unproven technology....who doesn't have $1200 laying around to try it out?

Seems like somebody...ehemSRAMehem...should be able to put out a reasonably lightweight and bulletproof 5-8 speed IGH with a ~300% range for $500.00 or less. Until that happens, Alfine is where it's at for me.


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## bikeny (Feb 26, 2004)

Interesting for sure. Seems to be aimed more at the MTB crowd, whereas the Rohloff is aimed more at the treking crowd. The big improvements over the Rohloff are:

1. Shift mechanism on the drive side of the bike instead of the disc side like the Rohloff.

2. Cage swap setup for changing tires/rims. As long as it's robust enough.

3. Shift mechanism is inside the dropout. To me, that's the best feature, keeps the shift mechanism out of harms way.

4. Hydraulic shifting: Not sure if this is an upgrade or not, but would be up for trying it! It does look like it would be pretty simple to design a cable actuated shift mechanism as well, as it's separate from the hub. Also, no grip shift, yeah!

I'll bet when all is said and done, weight will be about the same, so no advantage there. I do agree that a hub with a lower number of gears would be a much bigger hit. Spec wise, this is a duplicate of the Rohloff. If they made an 8 or 10 speed version that was even lighter with slightly lower overall gear ratio and slightly lower price, I would be more interested. Kind of like Pinion releasing new versions with less gears. Also, it remains to be seen how the shifting actually performs in the real world. That is another area where the Rohloff could really be improved upon, low engagement and spongy feel at the pedals.

I'll be watching closely, but I'm not dropping $1200 any time soon!


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## fokof (Apr 24, 2006)

Yeah , not sure I would put 1200 on a totally unknown product.

Good ideas , look nice but a couple of things rise questions:
- That cage swap is a good idea but will it be a source of noise , creaking and cracking?
- With these triggers , I wonder how many speed at a time you can shift ? 
- Not a good idea to put the shifting mechanism on the same side as the chain me thinks.
Just hope that the"gear box" is very solid to avoid problems when chainsuck.


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## buell (Oct 15, 2015)

fokof said:


> - Not a good idea to put the shifting mechanism on the same side as the chain me thinks.
> Just hope that the"gear box" is very solid to avoid problems when chainsuck.





bikeny said:


> 3. Shift mechanism is inside the dropout. To me, that's the best feature, keeps the shift mechanism out of harms way.


I'm tempted to be stupid and spend the money, because I was thinking about the Rohloff but couldn't get myself to pull the trigger on it. I can't find any information on the shifter clamp diameter and I'm thinking it's likely made for flat bars and I'd want them for drop bars. It probably won't work for my application (Salsa Deadwood).


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## MichaelInOr (Aug 16, 2016)

Is it just me... the hydraulic lines for shifting looked pretty massive in the pictures.

Everything but the price looks cool to me. Like stated above how many gears you can jump in a shift would be interesting to know.


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## Jan (Mar 8, 2004)

Here is an article about the hub (in norwegian): Nytt-norsk-gir | Telex | TERRENGSYKKEL.NO


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## gatouille (Aug 17, 2009)

The closest and most successful internal gear hub system is the Rohloff.
As I have many Rohloff, I compare Kindernay with Rohloff.

- Weight
They say that it's clearly lighest than a Rohloff.
1400g hub + 100g cage + xx g screw + xxx g hydraulic mechanism + xx g torque arm = close to Rohloff ?
Need to wait a measured weight of complete system.
- Shift conditions
They say "change several speeds in a single" and "Allows shifting in all situations: under load, at full stop, during coasting"
Several speeds + at full stop + under load are good things, better than Rohloff for "under load". Need to be verified.
- Shift hydraulic mechanism on the drive side
On right side the mechanism is between the cog/chain and the frame.
We can't put it in all position because of chain and frame. Not so good for me.
Is there enough space to mount a belt ?
Mechanism box is a bit long, maybe to have enough gap with chain and frame. Compact option can be interesting.
Unmounting the wheel is needed before disassembling the mechanism. Need long hydraulic pipe ? Maybe less convenient.
- Hydraulic shifting
Hydraulic transmission can be a good thing, smoother, synchronisation not necessary, auto adjustment.
There are trigger. I like trigger, so I like it. But some people like twister ; need an option ?
New shape of trigger are being manufactured. To see.
Hydraulic circuit have bleeding nuts, good thing.
- Gear ratio
Near than Rohloff. Strange to have 14 speeds and 13.9% intervals, near Rohloff with 14 speeds and 13.6% intervals, both with epicycloidal gears. I'm curious to see internal mecanic, like the hydraulic mechanism.
13.9% can be too much sometimes.
Need to have efficiency for each speed. It's not the best thing on Rohloff.
- Axle mount
There is a 12mm thru axle. Good thing.
- Freewheel
Seems to be a bit better than Rohloff.
- Independant spoke flange cage
I prefer a simplest hub shell with only 1 part. But I understand the idea to allow swaping.
It will be a dirt area.
I hope there will be no problem between cage and hub shell, as creaking noise.

It's not the first one IGH but designers seems to be confident.

To replace my Rohloff by this system I need more information and test.
I'm restless to try this thing.


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## buell (Oct 15, 2015)

shifters confirmed for flat bars. it doesn't look like they have a drop bar compatible version. oh well.


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## Velobike (Jun 23, 2007)

Interesting system.

I'm not keen on the hydraulic operation, but it's probably foolproof. 

I really like the hubshell system. This is the ideal product for people who want to run 29er_ wheels on their fatbikes. Just swap hub cage/wheel, no need for an entire spare gear system.

However, my dream system would have about that range and only 5 gears.


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## 2LO4U2C (Jun 9, 2011)

Maintenance free? Not even an oil change?


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## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

Buell:
23 Ways to Run Rohloff Shifters with Road Drop Handlebars - CyclingAbout CyclingAbout

For the rest, as a rohloff rider that already had a broken flange I definitely support the cage swap idea.

Looking forward to a longterm test.


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## Pabs (Aug 4, 2007)

Have there been any reviews of this new hub?


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## wschruba (Apr 13, 2012)

Maybe, if you can read Dutch... But even then, of kind of doubt it; the hub is in closed testing, so a review wouldn't be very useful, being an unfinished product, and all.


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## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

Hey I can read dutch! Can you post a link?

And why not put it through google translator?


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## cyclingdutchman (Mar 18, 2015)

OK I found something myself already:

Https://translate.googleusercontent...snaaf/&usg=ALkJrhh7AxjKzm6ZhD2L64rTn4K132cbQg


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