# ECDM with Cane Creek DBAir SC



## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

First ride was a brief one.
I'm still riding with the 2.5:1 rockers which provide 5" rear travel. I haven't found my 2:1s which are in storage since I moved. 

Team: 215 Capt./165 stoker

I installed one air volume reducer thinking I would need it to provide a progressive spring rate to resist bottoming. 230 psi resulted in about 25% sag. I was happy to see this as CC had suggested that I might need to exceed the 250 max psi with the team weight on the tandem.

With some pretty big rollers we didn't use more than about 60% of travel (as measured on shock shaft) even after backing off the high-speed compression dampening. So I will remove the volume spacer and try again.

With the "factory tune," which is most damper adjustments set at about mid scale we found the shock way to "bouncy" over even small rollers and bumps. Also there was a lot of pedal-induced bob.

I don't remember the exact settings, but about 1 turn 'in' (in meaning clockwise and an increase of damping) of high speed rebound damping, a couple clicks more low-speed rebound damping, and 4 clicks more low-speed rebound was yielding a pretty good ride. Not too much rebound over bigger hits, and not to much pedal induced motion.

The climb switch, which increases both low speed rebound and compression was effective at countering unwanted suspension movement when climbing, yet leaving the shock pretty supple for level and downhill riding.

There will be more fiddling to be done, but so far, we have achieved a better (smother AND more controlled) ride than years of messing with the RP23, which included a costly tune at PUSH. 

As a side note-- I made a couple adjustments to the DBInline on my single bike today which further improved the ride. Also have a Fox 36 recently installed on that bike replacing the creaking Fox 34. Between the shock and fork: wow! With regard to the fox 34: I would never ride a tandem off road with that fork.


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Once you ride something better than an RP series, it would be tough to go back. The design for the non rezzy stuff needs so much gas pressure inside the damper to keep it from stalling the fluid that makes it tough to maintain and get a supple ride. You really need a compression adjuster between the damper and rezzy to properly control oil flow and minimize cavitation.

Totally dialed in, the ECDM 26 is incredible to ride fast over nasty terrain. Very stable platform, that pedals easy and corners with serious grip.

PK


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## Okayfine (Sep 7, 2010)

Reamer, how did the RP ride that caused you to seek a different shock? 

Perhaps this isn't the thread for my post, but...if I were asked how our RP rode on our ECdM, I'd say "fine." I am not a suspension guru, and my stoker rarely complains so I have no cause to fix anything, nor enough knowledge to do anything more than ride, tweek, ride, and compare.

In general the back of the bike doesn't bounce or bottom. I know there's a ton more to suspension performance than this, and PMK has detailed aspects amongst the other threads. If it IS "fine," is that good enough? Is a shock change itself enough to improve the ride? Reamer's shock was PUSHed and presumably adjusted within an inch of its life. Different people ride differently on different terrain with different team weights?


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Well... You'd have to ask my stoker.....

We had to pump the RP23 (normal air can) to 285 psi to get a reasonable sag. The shock was not good at absorbing small bumps. Joyce would say she could feel every pebble. The shock would move thru its travel on big bumps, but it was harsh. This harshness was not great for comfort or traction. It allowed the bike to wallow a bit through larger compressions like g-outs and bermed turns. 

Fair to say it was adjusted within an inch of its life considering it had only air pressure and rebound damping o adjust. That and the platform. Maybe the fox is fine for lighter teams. I don't know, but it wasn't working for us. If didn't provide for a comfortable or confidence inspiring ride. 

All that said, they don't give these DB shocks way! But I had recently sold our old kHS Tandamiana so it was like free tandem money!


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## StanleyJ (Dec 11, 2010)

reamer41 said:


> Also have a Fox 36 recently installed on that bike replacing the creaking Fox 34. Between the shock and fork: wow! With regard to the fox 34: I would never ride a tandem off road with that fork.


Besides looking forward to hear how the Canecreek DB without the volume reducer works out, how secure do you feel with the Fox 36... being "only" single-crown and all?


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

On my Santa Cruz Tallboy LT I feel totally secure with the 36! Totally bomber. Lines I wouldn't have risen are now commonplace. 

On the ECDM I have a fox 40 at 5.5" travel. Also feel secure with that. MIGHT consider a fox 36 on the tandem...


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

There is confidence in a Fox 40, no doubt.

PK


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## PMK (Oct 12, 2004)

Okayfine said:


> Reamer, how did the RP ride that caused you to seek a different shock?
> 
> Perhaps this isn't the thread for my post, but...if I were asked how our RP rode on our ECdM, I'd say "fine." I am not a suspension guru, and my stoker rarely complains so I have no cause to fix anything, nor enough knowledge to do anything more than ride, tweek, ride, and compare.
> 
> In general the back of the bike doesn't bounce or bottom. I know there's a ton more to suspension performance than this, and PMK has detailed aspects amongst the other threads. If it IS "fine," is that good enough? Is a shock change itself enough to improve the ride? Reamer's shock was PUSHed and presumably adjusted within an inch of its life. Different people ride differently on different terrain with different team weights?


In simplest terms to explain, the RP does not have a compression adjuster. The rezzy shocks that do have the adjuster benefit compared to the RP (montube style) because the adjuster holds pressure on the oil during movement. In the monotube setup it depends on very high internal gas pressure to prevent cavitation. This makes for a less than ideal ride. Small bump compliance is not good. Large bumps, unless rolling whoops, will cavitate the shock meaning the damping is uncotrolled.

Simply it is not one thing, but many that make that design less than optimum. Better than a hardtail, but considerably less than a higher end shock.

PK


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Got out for a quick ride yesterday. Well, more like a slow short ride.... Our first time riding this particular trail, so there is no comparison as to old vs new shock. 

I took the volume spacer out of the shock and we needed 240 psi to achieve 25% sag.

This trail was had many sections of decomposed granite that was nice and smooth. Other sections of chunky broken rock. Some down hill twisting sections with rollers. No big hard hits on this trail. 

Overall the bike was very well controlled. The ride over chunk was comfortable and well controlled. On some of the rollers we felt a little too much rebound. We'll add a little high-speed rebound damping and report back.

Joyce's, comments during a smooth spot, was that the "Fox always felt mushy" and that the new shock does not. She is quite pleased with the Cane Creek. 

We made several difficult tight (full lock) switchbacks. I do t think the shock really had anything to do with making switchbacks, but...?

The improved ride in back has highlighted the need for some fine tuning of the fox 40 fork. Now that the back is mostly well controlled some poor behavior in front is evident.


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## ebnelson (Oct 30, 2006)

reamer41 said:


> On my Santa Cruz Tallboy LT I feel totally secure with the 36! Totally bomber. Lines I wouldn't have risen are now commonplace.
> 
> On the ECDM I have a fox 40 at 5.5" travel. Also feel secure with that. MIGHT consider a fox 36 on the tandem...


At your team weight you should probably avoid the 36. The 36 crown has been lightened up for enduro racing. We'd run a 40 ourselves if they made a 29er version. Our team weight is just a bit over your captain only weight so the 36 seems safe enough so far on our bike.


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## reamer41 (Mar 26, 2007)

Less High-speed compression damping front and rear, and some added low and high-speed rebound damping on the rear shock has further improved the ride. This was on a trail with some bug rollers and whoops, but few hard-edged bumps. So we'll see how it goes on a trail with more chunk.

Thanks for your comments on the Fox 36. Not that I was thinking of switching. 

Wow, your team weighs lust slightly more than me? I guess I need to cut back on the beers...


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