# Wilderness bill



## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Senator introduces human-powered wilderness travel bill - Mtbr.com


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

I can't think of a more inappropriate forum to promote this bill. The mere existence of ebikes could have the ability to derail the entire effort to permit 100% human powered bicycling in some approved Wilderness areas.

:madman:


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Where did I say I was promoting it?


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

You didn't, but he's correct.


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Give it a break, dude (OP). Do you represent nepmtba?





"we don't want your drugs here, Louie!"


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

donutnational said:


> For those who claim that e-bikes won't be used as a reason to prevent real bike access to dirt check this out ( from Friends of the Allegany Wilderness Facebook page):
> 
> Do You Want Electric Motorcycles in the Proposed Tracy Ridge Wilderness Area?
> If mountain biking is allowed at Tracy Ridge, there WILL be motorized vehicles on those trails. That is the slippery slope we are dealing with now. Do electric mechanized mountain bikes seem like a safe vehicle for our younger hikers and campers to have to contend with on the quiet backcountry trails of the proposed Tracy Ridge Wilderness Area?
> ...


Seems appropriate to cut and paste this here in your troll thread.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> Where did I say I was promoting it?


So what exactly is the point of posting this bill here? Or do you just enjoy being mysterious?


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

NEPMTBA said:


> Where did I say I was promoting it?


I'll settle for "discuss" this bill.

If ebike advocates want to discuss the Wilderness Act and the effort to restore non-motorized human powered access to Wilderness areas, you better have about $10 billion dollars to buy your e-way into the conversation.

Seriously. Delete this thread. Now.


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

Empty_Beer said:


> I can't think of a more inappropriate forum to promote this bill. The mere existence of ebikes could have the ability to derail the entire effort to permit 100% human powered bicycling in some approved Wilderness areas.
> 
> :madman:


Complete BS.

But I have a question for others:

Mtbs can go in the wilderness on the condition e-mtbs can go on non-motorized trails outside the wilderness. Would you accept?


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## Empty_Beer (Dec 19, 2007)

Try asking a coherent question. 

I'm NOT an ebike hater. I could give a rat's ass about them on any trail I ride. But they muddy the hell out of the Wilderness Preservation System crap happening right now. 

If you want to win over hard core mountain bikers, at least remove the discussion pertaining to e-effing bikes in congressionally designated Wilderness.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

uhoh7 said:


> But I have a question for others:
> 
> Mtbs can go in the wilderness on the condition e-mtbs can go on non-motorized trails outside the wilderness. Would you accept?


No.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

No.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

Having trouble with the old editing


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

....


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## jugdish (Apr 1, 2004)

...........


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

NEPMTBA said:


> Where did I say I was promoting it?


Then what's your point?

Clearly you think ebikes should be included under the human powered designation and you're trying to plant the seed in other's minds to take up the fight. Just say it and stop being passive aggressive.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

jugdish said:


> Give it a break, dude (OP). Do you represent nepmtba?


He does. And he's pushing the issue in PA. Despite no one asking him to.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Great. First given over to the Sierra Club by the IMBA, now by MTBR.


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

Empty_Beer said:


> Try asking a coherent question.
> 
> I'm NOT an ebike hater. I could give a rat's ass about them on any trail I ride. But they muddy the hell out of the Wilderness Preservation System crap happening right now.
> 
> If you want to win over hard core mountain bikers, at least remove the discussion pertaining to e-effing bikes in congressionally designated Wilderness.


Well, I guess you did answer the question.

The contorted dichotomy of YES/NO implicit is remarkable, with many, if less so in your case. YES let us in the wilderness! NO! Keep "them" of all our non-motorized trails!

In the Swiss model the Class one emtb and mtb can use all forest trails, as I understand it. I guess there is no "wilderness" in Switzerland. 

I hear no downsides to that policy, and of course there is no, ZERO, rational reason to prohibit e-mtbs from a wilderness area, because the impact is already no worse than other users.

But obviously that truth is not possible for wilderness lovers indoctrinated to a outdated ideology which is not even good for the land it protects: Look at the Sawtooth Wilderness: it's a waste land in many areas:

L1022252 by unoh7, on Flickr

No way to legally fight fire there in a serious way. In a warmer Idaho, wilderness is the kiss of death. But nobody gets it, and many cling to theoretical "protections" which protect nothing in the real world.

So, I would accept a "e-line" at the wilderness, not because there is the slightest justification in terms of preservation, but because desperate minds are wrapped tight  Let the mtbs in, because they should be in, and hold the arbitrary line at e-mtb: IF they can use the rest of the non-motorized trails system as is seen with no downside in Switzerland and Austria.

But really, anywhere a horse can go, an e-mtb should be allowed. 

Actually, considering the issues of animal rights, and flies, horses should be much more restricted. I always know when I ride a popular horse trail because of the big aggressive flies.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

I don't think mountain bikes belong in *most* wilderness. 

I don't think e-bikes belong on *most* MUTs. 

I think talking about both issues at once is a terrible idea since it'll further conflate motos and bicycles in the minds of the general public and members of the administration who will actually decide these issues.

-Walt


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

Walt said:


> I don't think mountain bikes belong in *most* wilderness.
> 
> I don't think e-bikes belong on *most* MUTs.
> 
> ...


Oh yes, by all means let's self-censor in the interest of.......ignorance.

mtbs don't belong in most wilderness? WHY?

e-mtb = moto? What total BS.

There needs to be much more discussion, not less 

Your speculation on the conflationary effect of discourse, no basis, just another grasp to prop up your own personal preference for who gets to use what. Sorry, Walt, public lands are not your frame shop. 

PS: Danger of "general public" conflating motorcycles and mountain bikes = 0. Conflating a turbo levo with a Mountain bike is another matter, because it's mostly mountain bike. 20lbs of assist mech and battery are plopped on a mtb. The "plop" on the turbo levo is artfull to the point I myself, seeing one at 50 ft around dusk, I thought it was a mtb.

So let's be crystal: class 1 pedelec. I know, the very fact your brain has to tell the difference between a 4k watt and a 250w(or 750) has you crying that's it's impossible!

Switzerland begs to differ


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

No need to censor anything. Just post the wilderness bill over in the advocacy forum, as it's unrelated to e-bikes. Having it here gives anti-bike folks free ammunition. 

Then again, the cat's long out of the bag on that one.

-Walt


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Very interesting, there are lots of closed eyes and open mouths here!


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

92gli said:


> He does. And he's pushing the issue in PA. Despite no one asking him to.


I love hearing your thoughts, No one is asking? How do you know who is asking or looking for support? I'm not pushing the issue in Pa. I have posted a few e-bike related topics in the Pa forum because it is a topic where I live and others have purchased and ride e-bikes. I ride e-bikes, motos and quads too. If there is an interesting topic that I feel others might like to view then I post it even if it's off topic, If you don't like then don't view.

By all means speak your peace that's how we all learn. Your thought help us all to learn of what is happening out in the big world and bring it back to our local areas as we hear of others have issues in their home areas.

Wilderness isn't a problem for those who want to blame e-bikes for access...
...maybe, just maybe, This is the place for this thread?


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

What does that mean? The wilderness bill isn't related to e-bikes. We have a whole forum for advocacy, too. It's just an inappropriate place for this discussion.

-Walt


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> By all means speak your peace that's how we all learn. Your thought help us all to learn of what is happening out in the big world and bring it back to our local areas as we hear of others have issues in their home areas.
> 
> Wilderness isn't a problem for those who want to blame e-bikes for access...
> ...maybe, just maybe, This is the place for this thread?


Translation?

Writing coherently would be helpful.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Inappropriate?

All of mtbr is advocacy. It promotes, sells, and spews advocacy...


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

Ok, sure, so why not crosspost to the Beer forum, or 29er parts? But it *still* has little/nothing to do with electric bikes, right? So is there a better forum for discussion of this issue, or not? Your original post didn't even try to make any sort of connection to e-bikes, you just posted a link with no commentary at all. 

???

-Walt


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

^^ I was and still am, looking for discussion which seems to be happening


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

You are getting a discussion of what a bad place to post this topic this forum is, and you consider that a good thing?

Ok.

-Walt


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## d365 (Jun 13, 2006)

this forum is completely full of SPEW. 100% comprised of it.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> looking for discussion which seems to be happening


A discussion on your trolling skills? They are mighty NEPMTBA-san.

If there is another purpose for this thread I don't think anyone aside from the op knows what it is.


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

My theory is that NEPMTBA is actually against e-bikes and trying to make the forum as chaotic and bizarre as possible. 

-Walt


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Oh GOD tough crowd...
...now I have more titles! LOL


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

Walt said:


> My theory is that NEPMTBA is actually against e-bikes and trying to make the forum as chaotic and bizarre as possible.
> 
> -Walt


He acts so obtuse that it makes me wonder if mtbr is telling him to start these threads. His thread in the PA forum is nothing but crickets since a few people objected. Waiting for him to bump it to the top for no reason.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

You know g2gli I was the guy way back that gave you rep when your square was RED and it turned GREEN

Now you don't want me to post about E bikes, you don't want me to bump up that thread So what do I do? Are you trolling me? Baiting me?


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## uhoh7 (May 5, 2008)

It's too bad Mike Lee is such a knuckle dragger:

""Senator Mike Lee supports the state take over of public lands and votes consistently not to fund public lands. Lee's support of the STC bill is part of his larger agenda to undermine the environmental community, undermine the public land agencies, and give states control of federal lands."

Got to start somewhere, I guess. 

Just lost the whole white clouds here, except of course if you use the motorized trails: we did not loose a single one of those in the White Clouds  Actually they are pretty good.

But no mtb access is not the worst thing about wilderness: the ban on mechanized firefighting is the worst thing,


White Clouds by unoh7, on Flickr


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

J.B. Weld said:


> Translation?
> 
> Writing coherently would be helpful.


Um "typing coherently" would be more correct.


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

NEPMTBA said:


> Um "typing coherently" would be more correct.


See, I knew you could do it if you applied yourself.


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## 92gli (Sep 28, 2006)

NEPMTBA said:


> You know g2gli I was the guy way back that gave you rep when your square was RED and it turned GREEN


Thats why I haven't given you a neg


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

NEPMTBA said:


> You know g2gli I was the guy way back that gave you rep when your square was RED and it turned GREEN
> 
> Now you don't want me to post about E bikes, you don't want me to bump up that thread So what do I do? Are you trolling me? Baiting me?





92gli said:


> Thats why I haven't given you a neg


"Rep", the currency of land access.


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