# Lets See Your Kleins!!!



## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Anyone wanna share some pics? Not just bikes. Old klein forks or seatposts or even mc's or stratums. Just some cool stuff to look at or steal for my site. I really need to update that site...


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

*Comes out swingin...*

Whoever comes home to this, well, ...you could end that sentence any number of ways.

True, aluminum art. Still, I defy you to define "best". And I'm sure you mean "made"...


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Pretty sure those are Tilos from Germany. 

Heres one of mine. Actually not mine anymore. Sent it to Japan.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*almost bought one.. t'was the same color scheme*



Fillet-brazed said:


> Pretty sure those are Tilos from Germany.
> 
> Heres one of mine. Actually not mine anymore. Sent it to Japan.


19"? gave up... ended up w/ a new khs pro, 7sp xt and mag 21. the klein had worn drivetrain and was rigid. bad mistake. the khs was a VERY twitchy bike that couldn't be ridden down any steep drop. and i wish i knew the taste of klein's handling. btw, how do they handle.. it's similar to a fat chance in concept, geometry i mean...


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

*Ive seen that pic before*



flyingsuperpetis said:


> Whoever comes home to this, well, ...you could end that sentence any number of ways.
> 
> True, aluminum art. Still, I defy you to define "best". And I'm sure you mean "made"...


 I've got that pic on my computer actually. Do you know the actual owner?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Very unique ride. Ultra responsive to body english. Pretty quick steering. Technical climbs are great, the best bike Ive ridden. On sharp hits at speed it seemed to soak them up pretty good surprisingly. A fun bike overall. I think its a cool setup. Gary was thinking outside the box when he came up with this thing. Oh ya, its very light too.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

*klein ads*



Fillet-brazed said:


> Very unique ride. Ultra responsive to body english. Pretty quick steering. Technical climbs are great, the best bike Ive ridden. On sharp hits at speed it seemed to soak them up pretty good surprisingly. A fun bike overall. I think its a cool setup. Gary was thinking outside the box when he came up with this thing. Oh ya, its very light too.


were the best. i remember one with the mud covered face and another with a rider, lights on his helmet climbing a rock, mud puddle on his side, very sharp stunt. anyway, the message was: this is expensive, this is the best, this... i couldn't afford. 
silly, no wonder they had to sell out. how come you say to your customers: my bikes are too expensive for you? anyway... if i find another klein in my way, i'll buy it! (another trouble is finding one of those stem/ bars/ frame combos in my exact size


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2004)

my beloved 1995 Sea&Sky Adroit, 21" (large).

Don't forget to check https://www.wundel.com regularly and https://www.engr.psu.edu/ce/martin/kleins/ if you don't know it yet!

Carsten


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## Steve-O (Dec 23, 2003)

*Click around here...*

Hey guys here is a pretty wierd site with a lot of Klein content that I posted on the old forum...

http://www.wink.jp/~and/index.htm

Since it is in Japanese try clicking on the lines of text below the flaming AND logo. These guys seem to be really into modifying old Kleins... Cool or sacrilegious?


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## erkan (Jan 18, 2004)

Steve-O said:


> Hey guys here is a pretty wierd site with a lot of Klein content that I posted on the old forum...
> 
> http://www.wink.jp/~and/index.htm
> 
> Since it is in Japanese try clicking on the lines of text below the flaming AND logo. These guys seem to be really into modifying old Kleins... Cool or sacrilegious?


Some of the stuff there was kinda weird. Someone here who understands japanese can understand why theyre doing the things they do to Kleins?

I dont really understand that site. On some frames they welded some cable stops. And then they installed carbonfiber brake boosters and their decals. Whats the point?


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## tianyou (Jan 13, 2004)

Here's my 1988 Pinnacle Elite now serving duty as a tow vehicle!


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Favorite! Hands down!

Is that a bontrager fork you have there? IRD?

Beautiful.


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## tianyou (Jan 13, 2004)

It's a Bontrager composite, circa 1990. The Mission Control bar/stem was also added in 1990.


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## Guest (Jan 28, 2004)

hey, that pic looks somehow familiar...










1996 Pulse II, 22" and a CycleTote...

Carsten


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## MoonriseRascal (Feb 5, 2004)

*98 Attitude Pro*

I'm note sure if it qualifies as vintage, but I couldn't get the photos of my 92 Rascal to load - I'll shoot them again and see if I can get them on. I bought this as a NOS within the last year and just completed the build.


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

you mean this one?








and all 3:








Yes, I know, I need to update the site. These three will be the first 3 to be added. Then maybe some more stratum pics (HA!).


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Heck, if I'm adding pics to the thread I might as well add some of mike's.








and








(Since then he has sold the moonrise adept and built up the attitude frame into a nice 1x1).


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## MitchDam (Mar 16, 2004)

*The Klein in Front*

Hey, that red, yellow, and white klein in the front----what year is that? And, what would that go for now? (I'm talking about the frame that's on the floor in the front).

Thanks,

MD


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## Guest (Mar 20, 2004)

MitchDam said:


> Hey, that red, yellow, and white klein in the front----what year is that? And, what would that go for now? (I'm talking about the frame that's on the floor in the front).


thats a 1996 Attitude in the Team fade paint. They were pretty common and occasionally are for sale on ebay. Supergo sold them for $750 new in 1997. Frame, Judy XC, MC2 and seat post.

The Mantra Pro is nice, you dont see the 1996 model very often. Mine is only a 1997 with the Trek welds and seat post clamp. But a great bike nonetheless...

Carsten


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

MitchDam said:


> Hey, that red, yellow, and white klein in the front----what year is that? And, what would that go for now? (I'm talking about the frame that's on the floor in the front).
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MD


 I think he payed a little under $200 for it, but he sold it already a few weeks ago. You could expect to pay 200-350 depending on the condition (maybe a little more)


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Or you could put it on eBay...*



TheRedMantra said:


> I think he payed a little under $200 for it, but he sold it already a few weeks ago. You could expect to pay 200-350 depending on the condition (maybe a little more)


...and some fool will pay $1000 for it 'cause for some reason the people who shop eBay will pay stupid sums of money for common Klein frames.


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## T 3 (Jan 12, 2004)

*2 more for the show*

The Mantra is a ' 98 and the Attitude is an ' 03. Just took the muddy Mantra photo recently,the trails are a little soft right now around here.Klein Stratum 185 bars on the Attitude....


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

So ya finally built up the attitude! And that mantra is hot! get the cloud 9 already!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

I've got a bunch of pics I can post tonight.

I think there's more pics of Treks in this post than of Kleins so far. Nothing post 1996 should count as a Klein.


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Agreed. I worked on our versions of the pulse and attitude models in early 95, which would have been '96's. I still see what seems to be the majority of attitude and adroit ads on ebay saying "2001 pre trek" or "2002...Chehalis model...". Drives me nuts.

Oh yeah, and what's an old Klein worth? On ebay, whatever two people are willing to pay. To me an original adroit frameset in excellent condition is worth spending 2000-2500 of my hard earned dollars, simply because I've wanted one sooooo bad for sooooo long.


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## MoonriseRascal (Feb 5, 2004)

*Why are post 1996 Kleins not Kleins?*

Believe me, I understand purist ideals. I also understand the Trek ruined everything tears. Personally, it makes me sad to see current Kleins as I see them as a dying breed. But please educate me as to why you feel that post 96 Kleins are not Kleins. Is it simply based on the change in direct ownership-plain and simple? Is it based on design changes? Workmanship changes? I think that there are many things that go into making a Klein an unique bike. I think changing some of those things most certainly alter (sometimes for the best,sometimes for the worts) the asthetics if not functionality of the bike but I still see a Klein as a Klein - some superior to others. Maybe post 1996 are not "classic Kleins" or is that being too soft. I know this is a source of alot of heated discussion so let me know of your thoughts. Long live linear fade!


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*I would say mostly design changes*



MoonriseRascal said:


> Believe me, I understand purist ideals. I also understand the Trek ruined everything tears. Personally, it makes me sad to see current Kleins as I see them as a dying breed. But please educate me as to why you feel that post 96 Kleins are not Kleins. Is it simply based on the change in direct ownership-plain and simple? Is it based on design changes? Workmanship changes? I think that there are many things that go into making a Klein an unique bike. I think changing some of those things most certainly alter (sometimes for the best,sometimes for the worts) the asthetics if not functionality of the bike but I still see a Klein as a Klein - some superior to others. Maybe post 1996 are not "classic Kleins" or is that being too soft. I know this is a source of alot of heated discussion so let me know of your thoughts. Long live linear fade!


 They went to threaded BB's; Switched to standard steerers; Trek began using their aluminum alloy; bikes were speced with house brand junk yet prices didn't go down?!?; much greater availability (although they were always produced in pretty large numbers).
And finally when was the last new Klein frame designed....the Mantra in 1994-95. There hasn't been an original "Klein" design since then the new models are just versions of other Trek brand bikes.

Craftsmanship really didn't diminish too much until around 2000 or 2001 in my opinion.


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## MoonriseRascal (Feb 5, 2004)

OK, I see the BB thing. My Rascal uses the pressed-in BB where as my Attitude and Adroit use threaded BB. Did the BB change occur due to the sale to Trek? I thought the 1996 Attitude used the pressed-in BB? What is the advantage of the pressed-in BB. Both systems have worked fine for me, but I know the pressed-in has some advantages? My 92 Rascal uses a 1" steerer where as my 2001 Adroit uses an oversized steerer. The original Mountain Klein used 1" as did the Top Gun and Pinnacle if I remember right. I personally like the oversized headtube/steerer and see advantages as well as disadvantages but don't find them as defining a Klein. I beleive that Trek tubing for ALL Klein frames came into the picture after 1996. If Trek produces their own tubing and Klein produced their own tubing (as opposed to outsourcing) I do see your point. Was Klein tubing produced by Klein? Do you think a 1996 Attitude has inferior tubing to a 1995? I understand the issue of parts specs, but I build my bikes frame up. I do know that my 2000 XTR stuff is superior to my 1992 XTR stuff. To me, the frame defines the bike as most people who buy the higher-end stuff have the upgrade bug anyway. Availability is certainly greater, but does that define a brand. It does seem that the Matra was the last real new Klein design. In my opinion, that may make some designs "classic" but does not mean that any post 1996 Klein is not a Klein. I just don't see all post 1996 Kleins as versions of another Trek. For example, which 2001 Trek branded bike has the same features as my 2001 Adroit? ie, paint, diameter, shaping,and butting of tubes, oversized steertube/headtube, internally routed cables, place of manufacture, etc. Are older Kleins superior to newer Kleins, In my opinion in some ways yes and some ways no. Everything else being the same, would I rather have a 1993 Adroit vs a 2001 - for sure. Are they different in some ways - for sure. Are they both Kleins - yes.


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

I agree with Moorise. A Klein is still a Klein no matter what year it was manufactured. I do agree that older Kleins are of nicer quality and Id rather own an older klein any day, but I would still go out and buy a 2003 Attitude frame because it's a Klein. Though they are not the same, they are still excellent bikes and perform well. It would be nice if they did not dent as easily and were of better quality overall, but they are still Kleins. They are light, they are stiff, they are beautiful, and they are KLEINS!
And I started thins thread for pictures. If you want to argue over what makes a klein a klein, then start a new thread. Heck, I'll start one after I post this. Then we can have fun argueing with each other.


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

It is a lot quicker and easier to state the similarities of Treks and Kliens than their differences. The similarities are:

1: Paint.

3: Price.

4: Rear facing Dropouts (similar)

2: Ride geometry (similar).

Essentially, we modified a Gary Fisher, sent it off to what remained of the Chehalis plant for a pretty paint job, and filled the warehouses full of em.It would have been expensive to do it any other way, and that's all there is to it.

In reality, anything with a Klein sticker by definition is a Klein, but are the 95 & 96 bikes Kleins? Sure, in the same respect that every Gary Fisher & Trek is a klein too.

If the high grade materials (all the way down to the welding rods & gas mixture), meticulous weldors, labor intensive rough finishwork, ride-derived geometry, and all the wacky stuff (like storing the frames in a big freezer) wasn't important to you, you missed the entire point of buying a klein in the first place. Or were you really buying a sticker on a down tube? The power of brand name perception is amazing.


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*LOL, Good Call*

And what big writing we have

And of course I plead guilty to brand loyality as I only ride Campy...road, mtb, track, 'cross, commuter....a sadly expensive choice


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Here are some of my pics*



TheRedMantra said:


> Anyone wanna share some pics? Not just bikes. Old klein forks or seatposts or even mc's or stratums. Just some cool stuff to look at or steal for my site. I really need to update that site...


These are all bikes I was contemplating purchasing at one point. The last one is my 1990 attitude. I cant find any pics of my adroit.


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## Djuc Wun (Jan 10, 2004)

Theres a real sweet Adroit fuseage on eBay at the minute (not mine, although I wish it was! - my favourite colourway) - https://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI...7297&item=3669645885&ssPageName=STRK:MEBWA:IT










Ta, Djuc


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## Shayne (Jan 14, 2004)

*Not the Right Color in the ad*

That is not a Coral Reef paint job, that color is Burgandy-Blue.

Also for the price it is at it should really have a color matched MC2.


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## Guest (Apr 1, 2004)

Shayne said:


> That is not a Coral Reef paint job, that color is Burgandy-Blue.
> 
> Also for the price it is at it should really have a color matched MC2.


Almost all 1996 Adroits came with the black MC2. Only the first few of these 1996 burgundy blue Adroits came with the MC2 painted to match, maybe 10 or so, nobody knows. I only know two that have it painted to match. Maybe the first thing Trek dumped due to cost reasons, i dont know. The one on ebay still has the 2" down tube and hence would qualify as a "true" Adroit among the hardcore fetishists 

Carsten


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

*Yeti frame upstages the Kleins . . . perhaps*



flyingsuperpetis said:


> Whoever comes home to this, well, ...you could end that sentence any number of ways.
> 
> True, aluminum art. Still, I defy you to define "best". And I'm sure you mean "made"...


I know this is the "Klein Thread", but couldn't help but notice that's one "nice" Yeti frame hanging in the middle of your picture post . . . might argue it upstages those beautiful Kleins.

Are all those yours?

-mtnwing


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## Guest (Apr 5, 2004)

just found this pic in my archive. an Adroit Storm frame (rumours say it was Tinker's backup race frame) a friend of mine once owned. he had it signed by Tinker when he met him.

Carsten


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## JohnnyH (Mar 21, 2004)

Wow! Nice to see some serious Kleins. Here's my Rascal SInglespeed. Gotta love those dropouts for using it as a ss.


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## Bikin' Bric (Sep 7, 2003)

*my klein mantra*

Hey there, heres some pics of my 1999 Klein Mantra Comp which is no longer in service due to a frame break (drive side dropout) Had mostly LX/XT parts with a XTR rear mech and Judy SL fork (came with a Manitou SX though). I really miss this bike.


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## Guest (Apr 18, 2004)

*Zip Grip Attitude!*



TheRedMantra said:


> Anyone wanna share some pics? Not just bikes. Old klein forks or seatposts or even mc's or stratums. Just some cool stuff to look at or steal for my site. I really need to update that site...


have a look:

Zip Grip Attitude

It is a 1993 prototype of the 1994-1996 Attitudes. Many very special details, the Zip Grip seat post clamp, a different MC2 and MC2 collar, MC1 Attitude frame tubes but clearly already made from tapered Gradient material (1550grams frame weight), MC1 chain stays with Micro dropouts, painted water bottle cage bolts and much more.

enjoy, Carsten


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## ericchow (Jul 7, 2004)

*Mission Control Parts?*

Hi, I'm trying to find a wedge and head bolt for a Mission Control I Handlebar/Stem Combo. Does anyone know where I can find one? Thanks for the help!

-Eric


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Um... finding an original would be hard. You might be able to use one from another threaded stem though. Youre not by any chance that guy who payed like 130$ for an mc1 on ebay, are you?


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## ericchow (Jul 7, 2004)

Thanks for your help. I'm trying to find wedges from other places, but the angle and diameter of the MC I seem to be unique. I wasn't the guy who bought the part from ebay, but if anyone out there wants to sell one (just he wedge and bolt) please let me know.

-Eric


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## Buzz (Jan 15, 2004)

*My Karma SS Cruiser....*

Here it is
Vintage? Perhaps not....
One of a kind? Maybe....


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

wot d foooooook...


hmmm

Is it bmx'ed? No, can't be. What are we looking at exactly? Intruiging.


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## Buzz (Jan 15, 2004)

*You are looking...*

At a 98 Klein Karma Pave! I found it (brand new) online for $99 for the frame. Since it is a 'comfort" bike marketed by Klein for one year, I figured it will only be useful as a cruiser. It has a rigid front fork and big huge elastomer for rear squish. I made it an SS with a mix of nice mountain parts and some cruiser/BMX stuff thrown in.

Buzz

Feel free to ask anything else!


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## mtnwing (Jan 13, 2004)

do you use the two footed friction method for rear braking . . . . or am I just seeing things?

-mtnwing


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## Buzz (Jan 15, 2004)

*No need for rear brakes...*

Got a Magura HS-33 on the front.....no need for braking on the back. Remember this is a crusier so I dont need the rear braking you would need on the trails.

Buzz


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Actually, I believe it was marketed as a cheaper alternative to the $1,000,000 Mantra of the time, not as a comfort bike. It is a pretty cool design that uses a huge elastomer rear suspension. It was mostly marketed outside of the US though.


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## Buzz (Jan 15, 2004)

*Well...*

There were two versions.....the Karma, which had a suspension fork and the one I have which is the Karma Pave with a rigid fork. Not really the same beast as a Mantra (which I also own) cuz the rear elastomer has no damping properties at all and would make a terrible trail bike. So maybe you could call the Karma a trail bike (I wouldnt) but the Pave would not be for sure. So.....elastomer rear and rigid front = comfort bike in my books   And FWIW the frames were similarly price to Mantras back in the day...

Buzz


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Well, you sound like you know a bit more than me so I will take your word for it. As for the price, I was informed it was quite a bit cheaper by a number of sources, so I'm not sure about that.


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## dirtdrop (Dec 29, 2003)

My friends _new_ Adriot.

Pics fixed


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## TheRedMantra (Jan 12, 2004)

Wow, that thing is amazing!


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## biking_enthusiast (May 11, 2004)

*Wife's bike*

I thought about converting one of my bikes to a SS, but instead I let my wife use the Rascal.












JohnnyH said:


> Wow! Nice to see some serious Kleins. Here's my Rascal SInglespeed. Gotta love those dropouts for using it as a ss.


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