# Current thinking on Leaf-Blowing?



## epic (Apr 16, 2005)

Is there any reason not to? I can't think of one. It's interesting to see just how fast decomposition starts as you lift the mats of leaves off the trail. We certain,y have some mixed views on the subject in my area, but it seems to me that the leaves are the organic material that we don't want on our trails. They hold water on the trail. Obscuring the trail makes for more braids when people can't tell where the trail goes. When I am blowing the trails, I am blowing the main line only which helps define it and makes alternate lines less eye-catching. I've heard people say that the leaves are good because they slow down water moving on the trail - if that's the case, isn't the trail the problem, and not the leaves?


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## robbiexor (Aug 22, 2011)

We blow to help the trails stay dry in the fall, and to accelerate their drying in the early spring.


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## jmitchell13 (Nov 20, 2005)

Here are some links to past threads on this topic...

http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/clearing-trails-leave-pine-needles-774146.html
http://forums.mtbr.com/trail-building-advocacy/leaves-moisture-control-tread-durability-569959.html


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## epic (Apr 16, 2005)

Ha - I found the first thread, but not the second. Just for sake of argument, we have two loops that run parallel to each other through the same terrain. I blew one and left the other as a control just to see how different they are come spring (we may be ripping out/rebuilding the 2nd one next year anyway).


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## Cotharyus (Jun 21, 2012)

Interesting reading. After look at that, I'm no closer to deciding whether or not this should be done at all. The only good reason I came up with to start was so that users could see the roots and rocks in the trail. I think safety may trump any other reasons.


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## jeffw-13 (Apr 30, 2008)

Cotharyus said:


> Interesting reading. After look at that, I'm no closer to deciding whether or not this should be done at all. The only good reason I came up with to start was so that users could see the roots and rocks in the trail. I think safety may trump any other reasons.


I love the fall weather but hate that trail obstacles are obscured by leaves. Also the wet leaves make for some treacherous cornering!

Im thinking about attaching a leaf blower to the back of my bike. Might help me get up the hills!


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## driverdave (Oct 28, 2012)

seems a little overkill to me. i'm out in the woods mountain biking for a reason. leaf blowing sounds more like a bike path and less like a mountain bike trail.

i guess leaf blowing may make the trail "safer", but you could argue that paving the trail would make it safer as well.

the only reasoning that makes any sense to me would be erosion concerns.


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

driverdave said:


> seems a little overkill to me. i'm out in the woods mountain biking for a reason. leaf blowing sounds more like a bike path and less like a mountain bike trail.
> 
> i guess leaf blowing may make the trail "safer", but you could argue that paving the trail would make it safer as well.
> 
> the only reasoning that makes any sense to me would be erosion concerns.


There are places where the trail "disappears" when it's covered with leaves. Clearing the tread keeps people on the trail and prevents braiding or tread widening.


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## aero901 (Apr 11, 2012)

My observations and thoughts on leaf removal regarding silt/clay loam soils, large leaf volumes (hardwood deciduous forest), freezing winters, wet summers, and trails built to sustainable standards.

*Pros (for removal)*
-Trail has potential to dry faster in Spring because leaves do not trap moisture in the soil and the tread is exposed to more sunlight & wind. This may reduce rutting from use when conditions are not optimal.
- Increased user safety. Leaves are slippery both wet and dry and to both hikers and mtb users. They also hide roots, rocks, and other potential tripping hazards. Leaves are very slippery when on top of wooden bridges or features.
- Better trail definition (prevents braiding and increases user confidence they are on the right path)
- Improved drainage. Leaves can block drains and create berms on outer edge of trail which restrict sheet flow across the trail. May result in increased erosion if water flows along the length of the trail.
- Decreased probability of users losing traction and unintentionally leaving the trail which can have negative effects in sensitive environments.

*Cons (against removal)*
- Increases freeze thaw cycling of top layer of soil due to greater sunlight exposure. May cause greasy conditions even during freezing air and soil temperatures. May result in rutting and increased drying times.
- Potentially increased soil removal from trail surface (if done during very dry conditions using the blowing method)

*Neutral*
- Leaves are eventually moved off of the trail in most high traffic situations
- Possible aesthetic concerns (some don't like the way it looks, some do)

All in all, I think there are clear benefits for removing the leaves in this particular situation.


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## fishbum (Aug 8, 2007)

This fall we have decided NOT to remove leaves on our state park singletrack before winter, and in the spring they will get a thorough cleaning.
This is sort of an experiment - we discussed whether leaving the leaves for the winter would protect the soils from the heavy fall/spring rains, and help with the freeze/thaw cycles a little bit. By end of November they will probably be covered with snow - in April we'll clear all of them and see how it goes. In past years we have cleared them in the fall and spring...


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## Dirt Engineer (Sep 12, 2012)

fishbum said:


> This fall we have decided NOT to remove leaves on our state park singletrack before winter, and in the spring they will get a thorough cleaning.
> This is sort of an experiment - we discussed whether leaving the leaves for the winter would protect the soils from the heavy fall/spring rains, and help with the freeze/thaw cycles a little bit. By end of November they will probably be covered with snow - in April we'll clear all of them and see how it goes. In past years we have cleared them in the fall and spring...


I would recommend blowing out your drains, though. I tried this same experiment 5 years ago at a trail I manage. Lot of work in the Spring cleaning out muddy, bermed up drains.


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

Trail Ninja said:


> There are places where the trail "disappears" when it's covered with leaves. Clearing the tread keeps people on the trail and prevents braiding or tread widening.


This time of year, a lot of our riding is at night. Covered with leaves, it's difficult to stay on the trail.

The hikers and trail runners who share our trails are very happy when we clear leaves in the fall.

Looking forward to low wind on Friday so I can get to it.

Walt


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## Tread Lightly! (Oct 19, 2011)

I was just lurking on this, but want to say that I appreciate the points for/against that were brought up. Never been that big of an issue where I spend most of my time... But would be useful for if/when we get similar questions.

Would love to see the results of the dual-loop test to see what difference (if any) there is.


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## fully (Sep 14, 2004)

*Race course grooming*

There's an off-road duathlon in Des Moines this time of year -- after the oaks drop their leaves. Blowing the ~3-mile course is a safety/courtesy measure for racers; otherwise, the tread is buried/invisible. The rest of us just get to enjoy railing through all those buff, high-visibility corners until the snow files! :thumbsup:


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

Easier riding at night unless you mark your trails ever 10 or so feet, and I hate a trail all marked up with ribbons, flags, signs, or paint. Our trails have a sign at the beginning and one at the other end, nothing but natural views in between!

Yes, we just removed leaves from 30 miles of our trails, everyone got on board and bought leaf blowers. I heard stories of how much fun they had, "being out on the trails doing this". Many did notice stuff on the trails they had never seen while riding along, now seen by just walking along blowing leaves.

May I add through experience removing leaves from the trails I have experienced the freeze/thaw cycle tends to lift and heave the ground with leaves on it whereas without the water an evaporate. Another, you can see the ice also without leaves hiding it!


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## Jrkimbrough (Sep 27, 2008)

We've been blowing the leaves off of our local trail for the past few years and it really seems to help keep the trail dry during the damp winter weather. Like also mentioned, lots of night riding happens in the winter and it can be extremely difficult to see the trail after lots of leaves fall.

Our trails have been designed to IMBA standards with proper drainage and we have yet to see any "Cons" to our leaf blowing!


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

epic said:


> Just for sake of argument, we have two loops that run parallel to each other through the same terrain. I blew one and left the other as a control just to see how different they are come spring (we may be ripping out/rebuilding the 2nd one next year anyway).


Definitely update the thread next spring. I thought about doing that to our trails but blew them off, anyway.

D


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Cotharyus said:


> The only good reason I came up with to start was so that users could see the roots and rocks in the trail. I think safety may trump any other reasons.


Safety is one of the main reasons I blow our trails off; not only can one better see roots, rocks, stumps, etc., dirt provides better traction than leaves, though neither leaves nor dirt when wet provide much traction at all.

D


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Get one of these!

D


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## hey_poolboy (Jul 16, 2012)

I'm all for blowing them off. I went out and rode a week ago Sunday morning and it was plain treacherous. I can see the arguments both ways, but I really don't think it's doing and harm or damage to the trails. I would just as soon get to use them till the snow flies. Besides, it stinks heading down a hill at a good clip and finding out too late there's a 5" diameter off camber root in the middle.


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## 18rabbit (Dec 3, 2012)

Can someone direct to the bike trail leaf blowing job postings?


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## Walt Dizzy (Aug 18, 2003)

18rabbit said:


> Can someone direct to the bike trail leaf blowing job postings?


Help Wanted Fall 2013 Blue Mound State Park, Blue Mounds, WI

Job Description: Leaf removal from multi-use trail system. Applicant must be willing to show up on what may be the last nice period of the year, and spend it running a leaf blower instead of riding. Estimated amount of work, 15 hours.This is an LTE position. Applicant will show canny ability to predict where he will run out of fuel mix and stash containers near those points, or face several rather long 2-way hikes to refuel. These will count against your breaks.

Pay: Negotiable. You can ask for *any* multiple of what we paid last year, and it will be granted.

Other benefits: Some rider may interrupt his fun to thank you, but don't count on it.

Walt


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## Trail Ninja (Sep 25, 2008)

Walt Dizzy said:


> Help Wanted Fall 2013 Blue Mound State Park, Blue Mounds, WI
> 
> Job Description: Leaf removal from multi-use trail system. Applicant must be willing to show up on what may be the last nice period of the year, and spend it running a leaf blower instead of riding. Estimated amount of work, 15 hours.This is an LTE position. Applicant will show canny ability to predict where he will run out of fuel mix and stash containers near those points, or face several rather long 2-way hikes to refuel. These will count against your breaks.
> 
> ...


You just get done?
:thumbsup:


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## gmcttr (Oct 7, 2006)

aero901 said:


> My observations and thoughts on leaf removal regarding silt/clay loam soils, large leaf volumes (hardwood deciduous forest), freezing winters, wet summers, and trails built to sustainable standards....


This post perfectly sums up my beliefs for the conditions stated.

On our heavily used 25 mile + trail system built in a state park, most of the leaves get pushed aside by traffic and we unclog drains as required. A price is paid for continual freeze thaw cycles and the resulting "peanut butter" on the southern slopes throughout winter.

At a nearby privately owned trail system where the traffic is low and the leaf cover stays all winter, the ground stays frozen and those in the know can ride more frequently without freeze/thaw problems.

On my small personal trails, I intentionally re-cover any areas that lose their leaf cover and I rarely have a thaw unless it really warms up.


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## pixy (Nov 8, 2005)

Certainly good to hear different options for different areas. In my neck of the woods, there is very little clay, or dirt for that matter. Yes, trails are tough to ride for a week or so when leaves are fluffy, but when they matt down, the trails regain the organic material needed to keep some dirt present. We have a few individuals that take it upon themselves to blow leaves off their favorite trails and those trails get super boney, cup out and puddle first. I am for leaving leaves and just dealing with it for a week or two.


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## GatorB (Jan 9, 2010)

I guess its where your trail is. Down here in Florida we actually bring more leaves into the trail. We layer the leaves with sand and compact to make soil. The leaves hold in moisture and keep the trail from turning into sugar sand. I lay awake in bed at night dreaming of clay based soil problems.


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## syklystt (Mar 31, 2010)

gmcttr said:


> This post perfectly sums up my beliefs for the conditions stated.
> 
> On our heavily used 25 mile + trail system built in a state park, most of the leaves get pushed aside by traffic and we unclog drains as required. A price is paid for continual freeze thaw cycles and the resulting "peanut butter" on the southern slopes throughout winter.
> 
> ...


I was thinkng the same thing..Im in Ohio...and Mohican is the only hilly ride around...it gets alot of use...the state park that is...I dont think they blow the leaves but they do displace from use...and it gets thawed way more than the really fun one around the corner that only a handfull of folks even ride anymore...gotta remove alot of prickers..but never removed leaves.....and its the best riding around, year round....could be part of the reason....
great debate though...for heavily used areas that will definately have begginers, i would think the safety and fun part would override the other reasons, especially since those folks wont know about the freeze/thaw cycles....the reast of us ride in it all, we just know where to go to ride when all the others are soft and stickey.


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## Maday (Aug 21, 2008)

In the Pacific Northwest we have plenty of organic and plenty of water. I've noticed that trails void of organic material, which are built on solid mineral soil tend to fair better when it is wet. The trails that aren't down to mineral soil are the "muckiest" and tend to stay wet longer. Wet trails covered in maple leaves are very difficult to navigate. The front tire slides/hydroplanes on the leaves, and makes cornering impossible under speed. When the trails are dry in the summer there isn't much of a difference. 

Since, one trail user says that leaves protect the trail and sheet water off the trail I'm leaving a trial section with leaves. However, from what I've seen so far "proper" trail maintenance is better. I may be wrong in the long term. So, I figure it is worth testing.


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## ameletus1 (Feb 4, 2014)

Here is why not to: Fair Hill leaf blowing - YouTube
The price for a few weeks of fast, leafless mountain bike riding in the fall is about 4 months of poor walking or riding conditions and significant trail degradation throughout the winter and early spring


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## Bear Spleen (Aug 12, 2006)

Requesting follow-ups on the experiments! Let us know how it worked out.


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## Muttonchops (Jul 16, 2004)

Starting to use a leaf blower here in the PNW. Not just to maintain - but also to build trail. After clearing a trail corridor the leaf blower is highly effective at removing duff and loam and getting down to dirt...

On the maintenance side - we have trails going through certain zones that are more clay based (lots of broad leaf - maples etc..) that we definitely blow in the spring and the fall...helps the soil stay dry...however there are a couple trails that route through clear cut areas where the lack of organic + exposure to sun / wind / freeze and thaw means 1) less need to blow 2) trail actually needs the organic.

I think its a case by case depending on the zone. My oppinion has definitely swung towards blowing where possible. The blower is also useful for blowing out drains and low spots (high use trails - not steeps / loamers etc...)


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## Stratocaster (Sep 30, 2004)

Huge mistake where there is freeze thaw during winter. In Northern New Jersey 16" wide single track has gone to 5 feet wide when leaf blowing was accidentally done. No leaves to protect tread. It's been tested. For a week and a half you have to "surf" the leaves, they crunch down in no time. Riding style has to change, when you figure it out you're a better rider. (keep your center of gravity as low as possible = not on your hands).


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