# Pump track design from the ground up... input appreciated



## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I got my wife hooked on the idea of a pump track in our back yard. She ran with it and the next thing I know there's a 30 yard pile of dirt in my yard! All good! The dirt is super for pump track build, its got a lot of clay in it, very dense and should pack down very well.

I have a 50' x 40' area in the back yard that is relatively flat, there are some trees in the middle of it, but I will work around them. I drew out the below on Powerpoint, not the best for doing this thing - but I'd like some feedback on this before I start clearing and moving dirt. I have more room to the right to expand, but I think this is somewhat manageable. The greyed out area has a large rock and 3 large trees in it, probably off limits to some degree.

Anywhere there is an arc would be a berm, the straight lines would have bumps on them, I still need to figure out the spacing and height of the bumps. From what I've read its best to get the berms in first. The large-ish turn in the middle on the left would allow you to reverse direction.

Any feedback appreciated. I'll update this thread as I progress. 
John


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## wick178 (Mar 31, 2009)

Check out leelikesbikes.com. He's the master.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Yeah, I have his book, just looking for any real life experiences. I'll be using his book for berm dimensions and bump heights etc. 

John


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## redriderbb (Aug 30, 2005)

*Turns look a bit tight.*

I would suggest trying to open up your turns to around a ten foot radius at the tightest. Maybe try just a simple oval style track at first on the left side of the trees and such. Dial that track in and learn the fine art of sculpting and flow. Simply dialing a 50x20 track will be enough to keep you busy for the fall and winter. Then, as your skills increase add little bits at a time. If patience isn't your things hire a pro.

Ben


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

That's probably good advice, unfortunately I have 30 yards of dirt on my yard that I have to move sooner than later. 

But maybe I will move all the dirt, but only do the actual sculpting of the berms a few at a time... I'll have to think about that.


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## papawheelie (Nov 21, 2006)

I built a track this summer (and I am still and will always be working on it) and the one thing I would say is don't worry about the pile of dirt that is sitting in the front. Move as much as you can but the priority should be to dial in 1 or 2 sections in first like the previous poster mentioned. Just cover whatever is still in a pile out front with a tarp, it will be fine. Don't rush it and buy a can of orange spray paint and measure measure measure. Building berms first is a good idea and per Lee's book, get a string and make sure and I mean make sure that the "riding line" is where half way up the berm is going to be. If it isn't, move backwards of forwards, you'll either do it now or later I can guarantee it. This got me and I just literally reshaped one of my berms today because it just wasn't working the way I thought it should be. 

Rollers should be sine waves as Lee's book states. I wouldn't say "no flat spots" but a good measure is to take the bike that you will be riding and it should just barely fit in between the transitions of the rollers. As soon as your rear wheel comes down off of a roller the front wheel should be touching the next roller. This should be the maximum distance. You can make them closer which adds to the excitement and opportunities for manuals and jumps but any further and you'll really working for momentum.

Good and luck and as Lee himself says, when you have 90% of the track complete, 90% of the work remains.


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## papawheelie (Nov 21, 2006)

*203 Pump Track*

Jisch,

Here is a link to a short video of the track I built. It's changed some but mainly tweaks and modifications. I spend everyday buttering it up and today was a good day. I've got it so close to perfect (perfect meaning absolutely no pedaling and high speed/minimal braking) with a jump thrown in. So damn fun.






Cheers


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks for the input! 

John


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## 9.8m/s/s (Sep 26, 2005)

Jisch, 
No technical knowledge to add, but I ridden a few and unusual features def make some better than others. 
Here is a video of one of my favorite tracks (more of a hybrid pump/bmx track)

http://pics.bikerag.com/showphoto.php?photo=7555

And a list of my favorite features-
1) bumps instead of berms- learn to jump and turn rather than always carving
2) elevated doubles /^^\ - to jump or manual 
3) open s features- hard to see, but at the beginning of the video it a three dimensional open "s" feature. You throw the bike into a very open berm that ends in a j shape and kicks you into one on the opposite side
4) Pyramids into berms- Jump over the front, down to a side and carry serious g's into a berm. Would work right at the southwest edge of that gray block

Not sure if that will help you at all, but good luck!


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks - cool ideas. I am definitely looking to incorporate jumps/doubles in this as well - that's quite an area in the video - wish I had that much area to work with!

John

BTW - I have changed the design on paper after walking the property:


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## papawheelie (Nov 21, 2006)

I just finally got an "elevated double" to work and you jump it and land into the berm and come out faallyyin. I like the layout you have. Looks you you'll have so many options. Post photos when the diggin starts.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Here are some "before" pictures. I guess the real before pictures would have been taken a few weeks ago, but a picture of just woods wouldn't be worth much.

My pile 'o dirt - its much bigger than it looks, I thought by standing in front of it I would give some perspective, it doesn't. The piles are taller than I am. This is two full triaxles full of dirt - the driver of the truck said each one carries 14-15 yards of dirt - so 30 yards. According to the calculations in Lee's book this will be just about enough to do the track:


















I am still concerned about having enough dirt. Where I live we have ZERO topsoil, its all rocks so taking advantage of what I have I am making retaining walls of sorts. My thought is that this will reduce the amount of dirt I need for the berms. I am only doing these walls on the outside berms, the inside berms will be all dirt so I can reshape them at will. I am building the walls 2' out from where the riding line is going to be (theoretically). 


















I marked the center of the arc for each berm and raked out a 2-3' wide path where the berms will be. I also raked out the entire track as per the above drawing (with the exception of the crossover, interior path.










I've got probably another hour or three of moving rocks to make the walls a bit higher then its earth moving time. I can rent a bobcat and someone to run it for $200 + a 30 pack. I'll probably start moving by hand this week and see how it goes.

John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Its been extremely dry since I got the dirt and I've been moving it into the berms. I've got 3 of four berms started - I've done some basic shaping, but mostly just piling dirt. As I noted this dirt has a VERY high clay content. It rained all day yesterday and we got about an inch overall. I went out last night and put a foot on one of the berms and my foot sunk an inch into pure muck. I am wondering if this is always going to be the case after rain or if it will firm up more after it's been tamped down? 

I'll post up more pics shortly.. 

John


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## dburatti (Feb 14, 2004)

Once the clay packs from riding, that line will drain well as long as there are no flat spots. 

D


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## atvwdsrcer (Sep 17, 2009)

Get a peice of 2x10 about 10" long. Screm it to a 4' 2x4 and use that as a tamper or buy one. Pack a decent berm and before your done for the day tamp it. Keep the dirt well packed as you go and the rain won't bother it but instead it will make them sweet.
I'm building one in my backyard now. I should have 4 loads of dirt here wed. evening. I have 4 berms started and there is going to be multiple lines with many options. All flow (hopefully). 
Good luck on your's it's looking like your going to have a nice track.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Thanks - yeah I should have tamped them before the rain. I have to wait for them to dry out now... Really glad to hear that it will shed rain when tamped. I have a tamper. 

John


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## SomebodyGetaSponge! (Dec 21, 2006)

I'm envious! Why mow the lawn when you can ride a pump track in the same space?. Keep us updated as it progresses.


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## sick4surf (Feb 4, 2004)

You need to buy a keg of beer and invite some friends over then feed them pizza after they dig and test it out.

Cover the soil with burlap or cover the tamper with burlap to prevent sticking.

Think about drainage to, if your soil is too rocky to dig drains, it could be a problem.

Here's a video of the latest pump track we made:


__
https://flic.kr/p/2937028104

More pump tracks we built:

http://www.climbonline.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1197222269


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Nice tip on the burlap - I will try it. 

BTW - nice pump track in the first video there... I can only dream that mine will look like that, but that's what I'm aiming for.

John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I will take some pics if the sun every comes out! I went out at lunch and did a few loads of dirt. As I said this stuff has a VERY high clay content. Its very heavy and I couldn't move nearly as much volume as when it was dry. I could practically use a trowel to form it once I got it loaded into the berms. 

John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I finished filling the berms, I know everyone says to get those dialed before starting on bumps. I've ridden them and they feel ok, but I feel like I need some bumps to feel the flow into the berms so I'm putting some in today:


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Some pics:

I used about 1/3rd of the dirt so far. I feel like I will have enough:









Berms from various angles - crap pics...



























Bumps later today (maybe).


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

Wow, 6" radii 180 berm are going to be super tight. Mine are 9" and I would not want to ever go tighter for a main line of the track ( fun for an option but buzz kill for new riders) Good luck with it. Cool thing about pump tracks, its just dirt and if you don't like it you can move it. I have build 5 now and as much as it sucks to dig up what you have just dug, somtimes.....:thumbsup: Keep digging its worth it.

My personal yard with 9' radii corners mesured at the middle of the berm 





One I did for a local venue and has 10" radii to make it a bit more user friendly


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Interesting on the radii. I was going by the book which said 6' was "medium" and "good all around". I built the retaining walls for those 180's at about 9', I suspect the riding line will be closer to 8' than 6' but I will check it out. I need to steepen my berms, I can see that already... Also need a lot of firming up to get everything rideable.

Thanks for the continued input, it gives me a lot to think about and adjust as I go.

Here's the latest map - anything in red has been "done" - I know there will be much tweaking... so done is relative.









John


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## m-dub (Apr 22, 2005)

I have noticed a lot of people measure the radius of a corner differently. Mine are closer to the top or outside of the berm so you ma be just perfect. The drawing looks good!


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*option*

looking at what you have built so far, is the below drawing an option? It would allow larger diameter berms, fit within your existing roller placement, and still allow a reversal of direction (with a less number of 180 degree turns.

crappy drawing on my part, but stare at it long enough it might make sense.

good luck, it is all an experiment so you can't go wrong.


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*better/worse drawing*

not sure if this better or not. but this design gives the rider an option of not doing a tight 180 in the middle of the track.

note. looking at your photos, you may need to sacrifice a tree or two.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I'll have to look at those on my computer (on my phone now). I measured my berms and the outside of the lower one is 9', the upper one is too tight to ride easily, I measured it and its more like 6', not sure how that happened :-D. Gotta fix it tomorrow.


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## MOJO K (Jan 26, 2007)

J, couple things...
Renting a power tamper is a good use of some money when everything is in place. You could split the cost with your friend and easily knock out both tracks in one day.
The tight turns might ride well on a dirtjumper but be troublesome on your enduro. Maybe set up your old XC bike as your pumptrack ride. 
Those Nev.s you're running will tear up the surface, you'll want k-rads or similar.
peace K. (things are more settled here now, Mojogirl is doing great,I still owe you a ride.)


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## atvwdsrcer (Sep 17, 2009)

The burlap wrapped around my tamper works great. Thanks for that bit of very useful info.


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## atvwdsrcer (Sep 17, 2009)

I had 5 tandem loads of dirt dropped 2 days ago. I have 4 berms done, 2 more started a few rollers started. A jump and a hip gap done.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I got my bad berm half fixed today - the radius is more like 9' if you measure to the outside of the berm. I added a good 4 or 5 loads to that berm - probably need one or two more. I know the lower (good) berm worked fine with my bike at 9' so I'm pretty sure I'll be ok. 

I looked at the above new drawings and some of that would require taking down trees - which I'm not ready to do just yet. I think I'm going to have some dirt left so there will be plenty of cross lines eventually. 

We got a bit of rain today and the stuff I tamped is holding well - its a bit slimy on top, but very firm overall. I had to take a piece of the bad berm out and it was solid! 

I should get some quality time out there tomorrow to get some berms dialed. 

John

K - good to hear! I'll give you a call some time...


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

I got a good 15 or twenty wheelbarrows in this weekend, maybe more. I can now keep time by wheelbarrow loads. We had some more rain on Saturday, that dirt continues to suck up even more water - the stuff is heavy, wet and slimy off the top of the pile. The stuff underneath is still bone dry, so I've been kind of mixing my loads up so I get a reasonable consistency when I dump the dirt. Having wet clay dirt is actually pretty good for building stuff, even if the weight does make moving it more difficult. 

The berms I built and tamped earlier in the week are in reasonable shape - I probably could have ridden the firm ones even a few hours after the rain stopped. 

I'll probably have the majority of the track done by the end of next weekend. There are some really sweet sections, I can't wait to get them dialed and ride - but this is definitely going to be iterative process (I can't believe I just used that phrase outside of work!), it will take months to get it dialed. 

My buddy JT came over today and gave me a few pointers and uncovered a few new inside lines I'll need to add. I probably used about half of my dirt so far, so I am confident I will have plenty, in fact I'm now worried that I'll be moving dirt just to get it off my lawn, not to move it into the track - which would really suck!

The berms are now much better - I moved them all out a bit - really just pulling dirt from the bottom and putting it on top. 

I'm starting to get psyched now - its going to be sick. I'm trying to update the drawing as I go but since its not to scale, its proving to be more and more difficult as I get to finer and finer details. I'm not sure I'll even update it past the last version. 

What a freaking workout moving dirt is - definitely works the core 
John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Today wasn't a great day for dirt moving, just a lot of stuff badly timed gave me very little time out there. I managed to move a few and get the bike out once - I got a line to work on my own pump track - felt great! I rode, added dirt and rode again and it was better! I think I'm getting the hang of this adjustment thing. Generally everything needs more dirt... bigger berms, wider bumps, bigger bumps. Rain tomorrow so I probably won't get much done, but sooooo psyched to see things starting to come together (at least on 20' of track :-D). 

I read somewhere that your bumps shouldn't be too big - I think I took that to heart - all my bumps need to be bigger and smoother - gotta think sine waves.


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Update to my own little piece of hell in the back yard, my hope is my work turns it from hell to heaven. I have one more bump to install to have the first round of building complete. After that the tweaks start, which will be a whole other level of work. The berms all need work - they need to be steeper. I've already corrected a lot of inconsistent radius issues. I've got about 1/4 of the dirt left, that will be used to back fill the berms, and create inner lines for switching direction and maybe expanding the track (though I haven't planned out extensions at all yet).

These pictures are not good at all, but maybe it will give some idea of what the track looks like: 
From the back corner looking down:









The back straight:









The back straight with a pile of rocks I excavated to level out this section (my back still aches):


















Upper berm:









Middle berm - the transition through these three berms should be pretty cool:









Lower berm:









Left side straight:









Front left berm:









Front straight:


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## adamrobinson (Dec 8, 2006)

*get yerself a blog eh!*

I really like reading this progression.
I totally reminds me of blog style usage of MTBR. Go for it.

I have a question to add to this forum of technique for building and adapting: My wife will not accept a pumptrack in our yard. I think I can hide it with landscaping.

Does anyone here have examples of doing this?
Thanks.


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## trail bait (Oct 31, 2006)

Try something like this she'll never see it


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## cjohnson (Jul 14, 2004)

*go to the bottom of this thread.*

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=6215985&posted=1#post6215985


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

*Blog*



adamrobinson said:


> I really like reading this progression.
> I totally reminds me of blog style usage of MTBR. Go for it.


As far as getting your wife to agree to it - get her riding 

On the BLOG comment - I probably should start a blog, but when I want feedback on something I think I would get very little on a blog whereas I get feedback here (thanks MTBRers!).

John


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

Just a quick update - I've got the track "working" I can do multiple laps in various directions and use the crossovers. I do have one direction/corner that seems to be impossible. I will keep working on it, but even without that small section working, it's a freaking blast. Videos to come.

Here's the design as it stands today:









John


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## Jim Z in VT (Sep 9, 2007)

Time for a video, man!

JZ


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## Jisch (Jan 12, 2004)

***Video coming after the track dries (Tues/Wed)***

I spent a bit of time this weekend smoothing things out. I've learned that you lose a lot of efficiency with a bumpy surface - it doesn't seem like much, but if you lose even 5% of your speed due to a rough surface, it makes the track harder to ride. The dirt I have has so much clay in it that it doesn't "lay down" on its own, so a lot of the bumpiness in the track was due to the shovels full of dirt kind of sitting up in lumps.

Prior to this weekend, the track was working pretty nicely, I could do laps in multiple directions without pedaling or using my brakes (except in emergencies). While I was resurfacing the track I also steepened the berms, I hope I didn't ruin anything - that's the bad thing about doing changes while its wet - you can't test stuff out.

Amazingly the track was hard as a rock this morning except for the spots where water pools (I also added some drains for those spots) and the new dirt I added. So once this new dirt settles I should be able ride it within 24 hours of rain, pretty cool. The new dirt should be firmed up by tomorrow so I'll get some videos.

I guess everything is much more defined/refined now.
Berms:









Looking left on the front straight - these bumps are perfect - you can generate serious speed with these puppies:









Looking down the back straight towards the same berm as that last pic - another good place to generate speed:









John


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## cmc4130 (Jan 30, 2008)

Jisch said:


> . . . While I was resurfacing the track I also steepened the berms, I hope I didn't ruin anything . . . .


not at all, man. steep berms are ideal. the steeper they are, the more you can rail them. i think they should be transitioned as well, so that it looks like a mini skate-bowl corner all the way around. that way, your tires pick the tilt based on your speed.....

look how mark weir's berm goes all the way to "vert." (did you ever ride skateboards ??)









here's a thread on berms:
https://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216752

our 180 berm is built way up so it's almost like a bowl at a skatepark.... 









this is an old picture . . . but you can see the berm on the left is still pretty low, probably less than a foot and a half, yet it's pretty steep for the top 6 inches. most of the riding is right in the middle ...


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## nzbikernz (Sep 27, 2010)

we are building a pump track same as that first design now at local school. will post some pictures when all done


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## papawheelie (Nov 21, 2006)

What school? That is freakin awesome? Need any volunteers?


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## nzbikernz (Sep 27, 2010)

papawheelie said:


> What school? That is freakin awesome? Need any volunteers?


One in Hawkes Bay, New Zealand, yeah its pretty cool, i wish when i was going to school there was a pump track on the field. No need for any volunteers we are almost done.


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## willsf250 (Apr 6, 2006)

I know this is an old thread, but I was wondering if you're still riding this track years later? I've considered building one because I've got two sons on balance bikes and thought they might get some use out of it as they get bigger. I'm curious about where you got your dirt because I'm in Coventry, CT.


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## evan yo! (Jul 11, 2007)

Yes, inquiring minds want to know. This, or any other DIY backyard pump track. Photos of the original product and how it looks a few years on?


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