# 2022 World Cup XCC-XCO



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Yes...it's time to start looking ahead as training season is just beginning.

Some bits and things from net...

Same Gaze - contract extended with Alpecin-Fenix
Becca McConnel - 2 more years at Primaflor Mondraker XSauce
Sebastian Fini - moving on from CST Post NL Bafang
Fabian Giger - retired
Manuel Fumic - retired
Maja Włoszczowska - retired
Mrs. LMN - retired
Chloe Woodruff (should be Lewis) - nobody knows yet. Maybe on January I'll ask her...

Anybody else?

Also, World Cup in Brasil looks interesting...


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Victor Koretzky to race road and mtb on BB Hotels KTM
Vlad Dascalu joins Jumbo-Visma XCO team,and rides some road races, probably with Santa cruz or Focus


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Raikzz said:


> Victor Koretzky to race road and mtb on BB Hotels KTM
> Vlad Dascalu joins Jumbo-Visma XCO team,and rides some road races, probably with Santa cruz or Focus


Victor is still under contract with his current team until 2022. That could get ugly. 
I didn't know about Vlad...


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Raikzz said:


> Victor Koretzky to race road and mtb on BB Hotels KTM
> Vlad Dascalu joins Jumbo-Visma XCO team,and rides some road races, probably with Santa cruz or Focus


I had seen that Milan Vader signed with Jumbo Visma. I can't find any confirmation that Dascalu did. Perhaps you mixed up names?

Here's the announcement about Vader: https://www.teamjumbovisma.com/news/news/team-jumbo-visma-signs-milan-vader-for-three-years/


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

good to see road teams branching out to the MTB dsicipline.
Also From 2022 the marathon series will be bigger and more formalised. The Epic series is now up to 8 events and carry UCI XCM points.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think the 'V's' have been mixed up; Vader will be joining Jumbo-Visma, which we already knew about. Will be interesting to see how much MTB he does, and which bike he uses. There are a few different brands in the 'family'; Greg Minnaar has ridden a Cervelo for road training, when he rides a Santa Cruz MTB. 

The Koreztky saga could be interesting; could he still ride MTB for KMC-Orbea, but road for B&B Hotels?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

It doesn’t look like Koretsky is leaving… not sure wth is going on there


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Did some digging into it, and I'm still confused by the situation. The original article that B&B hotels put on their website has been taken down, but Victor's post on Instagram is still up. The pinkbike article seems to indicate that both of this contracts are somehow still in place, but that seems odd. KMC Orbea are still claiming that their contract is still valid, and Victor will have to race for them.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I had seen that Milan Vader signed with Jumbo Visma. I can't find any confirmation that Dascalu did. Perhaps you mixed up names?
> 
> Here's the announcement about Vader: https://www.teamjumbovisma.com/news/news/team-jumbo-visma-signs-milan-vader-for-three-years/


Yeah sorry, that's not first time that i confuse Vader with Dascalu


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Yeah sorry, that's not first time that i confuse Vader with Dascalu


 thats like confusing Vader with Luke


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

On the north american front I have heard that at least two new teams are forming. Only domestic racing teams but domestic is a stepping stone for world cups.

It is an interesting time in the industry. I heard from one company that what they have is cash for sponsorship but they don't have product.


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

LMN said:


> It is an interesting time in the industry. I heard from one company that what they have is cash for sponsorship but they don't have product.


I'm sponsored by Maxxis, and going into 2022 they warned everyone that they will have to cut sponsored athletes significantly as there's simply no tires to provide. It was kinda painful this year, I was really only able to nab gravel tires, my preferred MTB tires/size weren't available through our athlete site (thankfully I had an extra set in the closet). The application for 2022 really changed to focusing on social media followers and reach, so I'll see where that lands me as my social media doesn't read like an ad. 

Strange times indeed...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Chris Froome on what looks like a Trek Supercaliber


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> View attachment 1956336
> 
> Chris Froome on what looks like a Trek Supercaliber


I looked and unforturnately Factor doesn't manufacture a MTB.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

There’s no way in hell I’d let Mike Woods (also on ISN) ride a mountain bike if I was the owner or manager.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> There’s no way in hell I’d let Mike Woods (also on ISN) ride a mountain bike if I was the owner or manager.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Why not? The owner or manager already has shown poor decision making, nothing against Froome but it should not have been a surprise he wasn't going to win a fifth Tour after the extent of injuries sustained at the Dauphine a couple of years ago. The salary he's commanded suggests that somebody thought he had a chance.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Le Duke said:


> There’s no way in hell I’d let Mike Woods (also on ISN) ride a mountain bike if I was the owner or manager.


I'd suggest if I were the owner I'd tell Mike Woods train on a mountain bike in the off-season. If he'd learn how to handle a bike he'd win even more on the road. The same goes for Remco.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Stonerider said:


> I'd suggest if I were the owner I'd tell Mike Woods train on a mountain bike in the off-season. If he'd learn how to handle a bike he'd win even more on the road. The same goes for Remco.


Ironically, Mike Woods did just that when he started at EF. He took a skills class with a retired DH pro. His bike handling went from terrible to OK, and then started getting worse and worse every year. It’s now “pretty bad” again.

It’s one thing to take a skills class with an instructor; it’s another thing entirely to go ripping around the desert.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Janika Lõiv going from privateer to KMC Orbea for 22 , at the age of 31


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Possibly replacing Milan Vader who leaves for Jumbo-Visma; though still no word on Koreztky's future.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

I'm not sure I see how mountain biking helps your road bike handling much. I've only ever occasionally ridden on the road, so I'm sure others know a lot more about it than I do. I'm confident and comfortable downhill on a mountain bike on trails, gravel roads and pavement - but relatively uncomfortable downhill road biking compared to people who road bike but don't mountain bike. Seems to me that the skills and confidence aren't that transferable. As I said though, I'm sure there are others here with experience of someone trying to improve descending on the road so they would know better than me.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

A few more retired riders:

Julie Bresset (32 yo): was never able to come back to her top level because of back pain.
Andrea Waldis (27 yo): will work as a primary school teacher.
Lukas Flückiger (37 yo), has other projects.
Matthias Stirnemann (30 yo): has no more motivation to race.
Esther Süss (45 yo): was not riding WC any more, but was still competitive in marathon.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Have just seen on instagram that Trek-Vaude are signing quite a few youngsters (mainly U23) Mona Mitterwallner will ride the Elites next season...and is leaving the team. If she doesn't end up at TFR I'll be surprised.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> Have just seen on instagram that Trek-Vaude are signing quite a few youngsters (mainly U23) Mona Mitterwallner will ride the Elites next season...and is leaving the team. If she doesn't end up at TFR I'll be surprised.


TFR seems natural, but three big guns on a team can be challenging.

I did her name mentioned with a couple of other teams but you often hear that when a young star is coming up.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sebastian Fini just confirmed on Instagram he is racing with KMC-Orbea on 2022. Now this raises the question even more about Victor Koretzke with Milan Vader also leaving and only Thomas Litscher on the men's roster.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I saw that, but only a one year deal.....


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

There' a new rider on Absolute Absalon per Instragram post of Julien. No word yet on who though...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

__
http://instagr.am/p/CWijsMoK4N-/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Juri Zanotti is the rider joining Absolute Absalon


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Riley Amos moves from Bear Development to Trek Factory Racing.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> Yes...it's time to start looking ahead as training season is just beginning.
> 
> Some bits and things from net...
> 
> ...


Whos LMN?!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cycloholic said:


> Whos LMN?!


An active contributor on this forum who's spouse just retired UCI World Cups and Olympic XCO races.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Yup i get this, i mean which one is that lady?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Yup i get this, i mean which one is that lady?


Catharine Pendrel


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

scottg said:


> I'm not sure I see how mountain biking helps your road bike handling much. I've only ever occasionally ridden on the road, so I'm sure others know a lot more about it than I do. I'm confident and comfortable downhill on a mountain bike on trails, gravel roads and pavement - but relatively uncomfortable downhill road biking compared to people who road bike but don't mountain bike. Seems to me that the skills and confidence aren't that transferable. As I said though, I'm sure there are others here with experience of someone trying to improve descending on the road so they would know better than me.


You’re right in that other than both being bicycles the skills aren’t really transferable. The basics are I.e. steering technique if using your hips weighting the outside pedal etc. The handling skills are different in that one technique allows for the use of all the available grip and the other works around having very little. Sliding road bikes around isn’t very fast.
That said god mountain bikers generally make very good overal bike handlers where’s good road riders don’t. The difference is at the pro level where the lines are much more blurred since these guys tend to ride all sorts of bikes all year round and develop multi disciplinary skills early in life


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

carlostruco said:


> Riley Amos moves from Bear Development to Trek Factory Racing.


I think that's been out for a bit. Here's an interview between him and Payson that's quite entertaining: THE ADVENTURE STACHE | paysonmcelveen


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Nino confirms that he will ride next year. He will decide during the next season if he continues until Paris 2024. The condition being whether he believes he can stay competitive until then, as he doesn't think he'd be interested to fight for the 10th place.

A very interesting report from him in German Nino Schurter: Mein Weg zum Glück


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Stephane Tempier out of Trek Factory Racing and going to a new team. 

Vlad Dascalu's contract with Trek Pirelli expiring. Perhaps will join TFR?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Stephane Tempier out of Trek Factory Racing and going to a new team.
> 
> Vlad Dascalu's contract with Trek Pirelli expiring. Perhaps will join TFR?


I could see TFR watching their budget. They are already paying top $$ for Jolanda, and I am sure Evie will be getting a significant pay bump. Plus, four factory riders is a nice size, bigger than that and you are bringing in another mechanic and that adds accommodation and travel logistic challenges.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Trinity Racing have signed the men's Junior MTB Worlds 1st & 2nd; Adrien Boichis (Fra) & Camilo Gomez (Col) ......









TRINITY RACING CONFIRMS ROSTER FOR 2022 - Trinity Racing


CALPE, Spain – After an impressive 2021 season, TRINITY Racing has gathered in Spain for its first training camp in order to prepare for the 2022 season. Putting in some good training miles on the road, the team have also been learning whilst off the bike with mechanic workshops on how to...




trinityracing.co.uk





Interestingly, Haley Batten isn't on that list of riders.......An oversight, or is she moving elsewhere?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Stephane Tempier out of Trek Factory Racing and going to a new team.


Maybe Trek couldn't source any big enough chainrings...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> Trinity Racing have signed the men's Junior MTB Worlds 1st & 2nd; Adrien Boichis (Fra) & Camilo Gomez (Col) ......
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Moving.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

PFP won Megavalanche Reunion Island...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Where is Chris Blevins going to race in 22?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> Where is Chris Blevins going to race in 22?


One wonders if both Blevins and Batten are moving to another Specialized supported team......I can't recall any rumours about them possibly leaving, so it's quite a surprise.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> One wonders if both Blevins and Batten are moving to another Specialized supported team......I can't recall any rumours about them possibly leaving, so it's quite a surprise.


Well, I'd say Blevins was more successful than at least one of the male racers on Specialized's Factory Team. I could see him moving there. I hope Blevins can keep the motivation to train and race the XCO circuit to his maximum capabilities. He has lots of interests outside of racing as well.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Mona Mitterwallner to Cannondale Factory Racing.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

First time in 3 seasons they have a woman on the roster and a darn good pick


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Gerardo Ulloa (Mex) joins Massi.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Haley Batten just posted a good bye Trinity post. Any idea where she’s going?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Trying to get news about MTB can be really hard at times. It gets a raw deal from the general cycling media who overly concentrate on road constantly. Here in the UK, were we now have an Olympic & World XCO Champions, it's as poor as ever. I can't recall either of them nominated for any cycling/sports end of year awards. If Tom didn't ride on the road or do CX I wonder if he'd have had much coverage. Saying that Evie appeared in a road cycling magazine feature a few weeks back, which was a surprise.

I also get annoyed, but not surprised when MTB riders are continually overlooked in Top 10 cyclists of the year.....the ignorance is beyond belief.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Trying to get news about MTB can be really hard at times. It gets a raw deal from the general cycling media who overly concentrate on road constantly. Here in the UK, were we now have an Olympic & World XCO Champions, it's as poor as ever. I can't recall either of them nominated for any cycling/sports end of year awards. If Tom didn't ride on the road or do CX I wonder if he'd have had much coverage. Saying that Evie appeared in a road cycling magazine feature a few weeks back, which was a surprise.
> 
> I also get annoyed, but not surprised when MTB riders are continually overlooked in Top 10 cyclists of the year.....the ignorance is beyond belief.


Beyond that it beggars belief that Lewis Hamilton wins sportsman of the year and gets knighted for pushing a button 20times a year


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> Beyond that it beggars belief that Lewis Hamilton wins sportsman of the year and gets knighted for pushing a button 20times a year


Most stupid post i have seen here...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Most stupid post i have seen here...


Aaah you must be a Shamilton fan


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Exmuhle said:


> One wonders if both Blevins and Batten are moving to another Specialized supported team......I can't recall any rumours about them possibly leaving, so it's quite a surprise.


Blevins is moving from Trinity.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> Blevins is moving from Trinity.


This was mentioned at the last World Cup by Rob Warner. As I understand it the team won’t be focussing on international races in 2022 so I’m wondering where Christopher is going in ‘22.
CFR is now full as is SFR. Whatever team picks him up they’ll be lucky to have him


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> One wonders if both Blevins and Batten are moving to another Specialized supported team......I can't recall any rumours about them possibly leaving, so it's quite a surprise.


He announced he's moving from Trinity yesterday and I agree, it seems a no-brainer that he'd be grabbed up by Specialized Factory Racing. If they don't get him it's a huge whiff.

Same with Haley Batten, two great new talents for the USA.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CYAVKnDPlB5/

I'd humbly ask that he set his rap career aside for a while and focus on bike riding, lol. However it's great that Blevins finished college last year. I recall asking a friend what happened to Howie Grotts, who was killing the establishment a few years back nearly as impressively as Blevins. Turned out he decided being a doctor was a more solid choice and I can't blame him.

In a Tweet he decided to delete, Tinker Juarez let slip that he was being paid only $25k a year to ride for Cannondale. And yes, he is 60 years old but his marketing of their bikes was no doubt worth at least that to all the older guys that buy bikes. It's a tough racket.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

And Vlad Dascalu leaves Trek-Pirelli........there is a possible vacancy at TFR; and he was on the pre Christmas training camp with Trek-Segafredo road team, as well as Evie & Hattie.


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## jf45 (Nov 23, 2021)

Anyone knows anything about what's going on at Norco? Haley, Lespy and Jenn Jackson all on the move..? NFR sizing down..? Or..?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jf45 said:


> Anyone knows anything about what's going on at Norco? Haley, Lespy and Jenn Jackson all on the move..? NFR sizing down..? Or..?


Haley and Lespy have a nice little set-up that they will be announcing in a bit. Jenn signed with another team and will be announcing soon too.

Norco has signed a couple of very strong young riders that they will be announcing in the new year.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

A new podcast out with Mona, the only English one that I can see too. A few odd questions (maybe this is a cultural thing), but otherwise interesting to learn about about her. She seems like a super intelligent and driven young rider, and I'm super excited to see what she can do. Etapa 22 - Mona Mitterwallner - MTB PASS


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Vlad Dascalu officially joins Trek Factory Racing.


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## ualar (Sep 18, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> Vlad Dascalu officially joins Trek Factory Racing.


Very good choice and he is know the bike very well from Trek Pirelli

İ like Vlad hes focused for podium.

Tempier was really bad and Cooper is lacking consistency.

Other than Trek Factory women team, the Mans struggle very hard


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Loana Lecomte is leaving Massi. I wonder where she is heading?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Trek-Pirelli becomes Wilier-Pirelli......

And that Lecomte news is a surprise - haven't seen it reported anywhere, however, it's now on Pinkbike. 



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/loana-lecomte-parts-ways-with-massi.html


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Loana Lecomte is leaving Massi. I wonder where she is heading?


I usually know where people are moving but I haven’t heard anything. My guess, KMC-Orbea. French team with a decent budget.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Blevins and Batten officially join Specialized Factory Racing.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> I usually know where people are moving but I haven’t heard anything. My guess, KMC-Orbea. French team with a decent budget.


Probably...

In other KMC-Orbea news, apparently the contract dispute with Victor Koretzky seems resolved as he is posting in social media with the B&B KTM kit...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Trek-Pirelli becomes Wilier-Pirelli......
> 
> And that Lecomte news is a surprise - haven't seen it reported anywhere, however, it's now on Pinkbike.
> 
> ...











The ambitious new Wilier-Pirelli Factory Team is born


The just presented Wilier-Pirelli Factory Team is a 100% made in Italy team reborn from the extinct Trek-Pirelli.




www.brujulabike.com


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Thomas Griot, another Massi member, is also leaving the team.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> Blevins and Batten officially join Specialized Factory Racing.


As an American I am very stoked on this move. It's great to see Specialized investing in young talent.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Lecomte to Canyon.

__
http://instagr.am/p/CYledJUskxO/


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

csteven71 said:


> Lecomte to Canyon.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CYledJUskxO/


That was unexpected (to me at least). Canyon really are sponsoring a lot of different teams now. I was guessing/hoping she would go to santa cruz/fsa and join Maxime Marotte.

According to the pinkbike article they will announce one more rider for the team, any idea who?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm wondering what the situation with Koretzky is; B&B ride KTM bikes, does anybody know what their MTBs are like? Good enough for an Elite level rider? Does he stay on an Orbea,and black it out. Or can he ride for another team on the MTB?


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Exmuhle said:


> I'm wondering what the situation with Koretzky is; B&B ride KTM bikes, does anybody know what their MTBs are like? Good enough for an Elite level rider? Does he stay on an Orbea,and black it out. Or can he ride for another team on the MTB?


The KTMs are plenty fine, been around a while. All the current FS bikes are basically clones of each other design wise at this point anyhow.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Canyon CLLCTV Team also includes Thomas Griot and Luca Schwarzbauer


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

peabody said:


> The KTMs are plenty fine, been around a while. All the current FS bikes are basically clones of each other design wise at this point anyhow.


It does seem that all the new XC bikes are looking pretty darn similar. Maybe things have settled down?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Skier78 said:


> That was unexpected (to me at least). Canyon really are sponsoring a lot of different teams now. I was guessing/hoping she would go to santa cruz/fsa and join Maxime Marotte.
> 
> According to the pinkbike article they will announce one more rider for the team, any idea who?


Stephane Tempier? He has not announced any plans for 2022 and beyond.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Stephane Tempier? He has not announced any plans for 2022 and beyond.


Good call.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

MVDP out for months with back injury.

If this was posted here, I missed it: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-could-be-out-for-months-due-to-back-pain.html


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

One hopes he actually gets the rest needed to recover; and doesn't come back too early......like in the autumn.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

No news on the Giant XCO team line up…


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

jrob300 said:


> MVDP out for months with back injury.
> 
> If this was posted here, I missed it: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-could-be-out-for-months-due-to-back-pain.html


He's got some serious choices to make. It's apparent his body can't hold up racing road, MTB, and CX at his previous levels. He'll probably have to give up XC MTB because his team will want him to focus on the road for sure.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I was just looking at the calander, do we have 9 XCO rounds this year, plus worlds? Thought it had been 6 rounds the last bunch of years (probably haven't been paying enough attention to this sort of stuff though):



110/4/22Petropolis BRAXCO/XCC28/5/22Albstadt GERXCO/XCC315/5/22Nove Mesto Na Morave CZEXCO/XCC412/6/22Leogang AUTXCO/XCC/DHI510/7/22Lenzerheide SUIXCO/XCC/DHI617/7/22Vallnord Pal Arinsal ANDXCO/XCC/DHI731/7/22Snowshoe USAXCO/XCC/DHI87/8/22Mont-Sainte-Anne CANXCO/XCC/DHI28/8/22Les GetsWorlds94/9/22Val di Sole ITAXCO/XCC/DHI


Also could have it all wrong.









2022 Mercedes-Benz UCI Mountain Bike World Cup


2022 Mercedes-Benz UCI Mountain Bike World Cup



www.uci.org













2022 UCI Mountain Bike WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS


2022 UCI MTB WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS



www.uci.org


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

XCC and XCO? just noticed two in Vallnord but not the other...odd


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

oh i may have done some bad copy/paste
Have updated to add even plus fix not pasting in snowshoe


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

9 rounds of XCO & XCC 
Petropolis BRA 
Albstadt GER 
Nove Mesto Na Morave CZE 
Leogang AUT 
Lenzerheide SUI 
Vallnord Pal Arinsal AND 
Snowshoe USA 
Mont-Sainte-Anne CAN 
Val di Sole ITA


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> He's got some serious choices to make. It's apparent his body can't hold up racing road, MTB, and CX at his previous levels. He'll probably have to give up XC MTB because his team will want him to focus on the road for sure.


That's what fans of road cycling want to see.......I hope that's not the case.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> He's got some serious choices to make. It's apparent his body can't hold up racing road, MTB, and CX at his previous levels. He'll probably have to give up XC MTB because his team will want him to focus on the road for sure.


I was thinking about that the other day, what style of cycling is actually worse for the lower back?
For me as a long person (194cm) with a fairly large saddle-bar drop cyclocross is the worst, especially for racing. I think it is since you have to stay seated in the rough stuff to keep traction combined with a lower cadence/more force than on road and mtb.

Hopefully he can get back to racing pain free and races what he prefers, I think he is enjoyable to watch regardless of if it is on the road or mtb (or cyclocross).


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

MVDP is just struggling with the back injury he licked up at the Tokyo XCO race. He will be back (excuse the pun).Those injuries just take longer to heal than most people would like. Moral of the story, look after your back


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> MVDP is just struggling with the back injury he licked up at the Tokyo XCO race. He will be back (excuse the pun).Those injuries just take longer to heal than most people would like. Moral of the story, look after your back


He's had the back injury since at least the March MTB world cup race. Way before the Olympics.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> He's had the back injury since at least the March MTB world cup race. Way before the Olympics.


I read somewhere , think it was cyclingnews, that the two issues were unrelated i.e. the issue exeperienced in March vs the injury from Tokyo and the latest is just a continuation. He's also had a knee issue and very often these are related so maybe you are right and it is more related to the early season issue and not Tokyo


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Brad said:


> I read somewhere , think it was cyclingnews, that the two issues were unrelated i.e. the issue exeperienced in March vs the injury from Tokyo and the latest is just a continuation. He's also had a knee issue and very often these are related so maybe you are right and it is more related to the early season issue and not Tokyo


His current knee injury was caused by a "stupid" training crash...his words. What people love about MvdP is his carefree style on the bike and risk taking. But that style leads to him crashing more than he should.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Absolute Absalon rebrands as BMC MTB Team


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

carlostruco said:


> Absolute Absalon rebrands as BMC MTB Team


Sounds much better.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Thomas Litscher out of KMC-Oreba and joins Kross - Orlen. 

Sergio Mantecon creates Scott Cala Bandida team to focus on XCM racing.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Who's your bet this year for w xco?

1. Lecomte
2. Neff
3. Richards
4. Courtney


What happened to Emily Batty though? Is she done? 

Sent from my 2107113SG using Tapatalk


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

gat3keeper said:


> Who's your bet this year for w xco?
> 
> 1. Lecomte
> 2. Neff
> ...


Batty has her own team...probably because she has been getting spanked


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## ualar (Sep 18, 2020)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Batty has her own team...probably because she has been getting spanked


Batty is for marketing face not for race 😆

There is also Pauline Ferrand-Prevot, Jenny Rissveds, Sina Frei, Rebecca McConnell. Also spanish Garcia Martinez can shine.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

ualar said:


> Batty is for marketing face not for race


Yeah. Thats what I thought too. Watching her last year, seem like she is not giving an effort to be at least on top 10.

Hmmm how can she market if results are poor though. ? Personally, when I want a new bike, first thing I will do is look for what the winners or champs are using.

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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Respect the athletes. Batty is a really good athlete. Racing at this level is not easy. Beside, she has 17 more world cup podiums than you.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

gat3keeper said:


> Personally, when I want a new bike, first thing I will do is look for what the winners or champs are using.
> 
> Sent from my 2107113SG using Tapatalk


You never heard of sponsors?


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

cycloholic said:


> Beside, she has 17 more world cup podiums than you.


I find it lame when someone commented something like this. What would you expect? I am not an athlete. Lolz.

So are you saying that if Im a fan of lebron and commented that my lakers sucks right now. Will you tell me the same? That Lebron at least have more championship than me? Funny. Really?

First of all, Im a fan of Batty. I was hooked to xco racing because of her and rooting for her to win each year. Im just wondering what happened to her nowadays coz I havent heard a news of injury or something. What is the disrespect there? Watching here vlog , seem like she js ready each time.

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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

rather unfair comments being passed at Emily in the past few posts. She's a name, and a recognised sports woman. She is one of the top XCO riders in the world and will run rings around most male commenters on this or any other forum.
Every athlete has ups and downs. Sometimes the downs last for a few seasons and ups only for one or two races. Thats he nature of sport. Sure she has a marketable face and smile and there's nothing wrong with that since its one of the gifts the wonders of genetics has bestowed upon her. Fat beer belly's though are a choice....

back to the ladies likely to be chasing the podium.

Evie finished '21 on form and its likely she will continue that form. However Rebecca McConnell was also on the ascendency. If she has managed her travels back to Australia and not been caught up in their stupid lock downs then I hope she continues that build to the top step of the podium.

Loana Lecomte showed a dip in form toward the end of the season. I would expect she is now well rested and will be back on form then the smart money will be on her to retain her winning ways. I can't see any other rider matching Gunn-Rita's record other than Loana.

Pauline Ferrand-Prevot.... I don't know if she can step up the gear to get back to 2019/20 form. She was kinda there in 2021 but Loana just had that extra gear and Pauline needs to find it if she is to get back to winning ways.

Sina Frei had a great end to '21 and her training is on track. She'll be a force in '22.

The big unknown is how riders will prioritise training for XCC or XCO for their main focus. This could really upset the bookies


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

cycloholic said:


> You never heard of sponsors?


Huh?

Batty is a sponsor of Canyon. But you and I both know that Canyon will sell more bikes if she has good results. People tend to buy winning bikes regardless of sponsors. Is it not?

And brands trying to sponsor top toast rider for better race results and sell more bikes right?


Sent from my 2107113SG using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> Huh?
> 
> Batty is a sponsor of Canyon. But you and I both know that Canyon will sell more bikes if she has good results. People tend to buy winning bikes regardless of sponsors. Is it not?
> 
> ...


Yes and no,
It depends on the marketing strategy. Sometimes winning at World Cup level isn't the main focus but rather results at National level and the international marketability of the rider.
Marketability is a much more complex criteria to unpack. Red Bull has different criteria than Coca-Cola or Gaterade.
Ultimately results will be a determining factor whether that rider will be favoured going to a contract renewal or not but it is not always the be all and end all


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## ualar (Sep 18, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> His current knee injury was caused by a "stupid" training crash...his words. What people love about MvdP is his carefree style on the bike and risk taking. But that style leads to him crashing more than he should.


Hope M. Van Der Poel gets well and returns to the XC racing. Both MVDP and Tom Pidcock adds so much flavour into XC races and makes them much more enjoyable.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

ualar said:


> Hope M. Van Der Poel gets well and returns to the XC racing. Both MVDP and Tom Pidcock adds so much flavour into XC races and makes them much more enjoyable.


If Pidcock wins the CX World Championship at the end of January, look for him to have a go at the XCO World Championship also this year. He's a smart racer.

I also look for MvdP's teammate, Sam Gaze, to have some good results. He seems to be in a good place mentally right now and he also did some CX racing in Europe this winter for the the first time.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

On the women's side I like Sina Frei for this year. She seems hungry and focused...maybe more so than others who may have more natural abilities. Having the drive and motivation at this level is so important.


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## ualar (Sep 18, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> If Pidcock wins the CX World Championship at the end of January, look for him to have a go at the XCO World Championship also this year. He's a smart racer.


Still i Want 1 win for Nino Schurter to match Absalon. Seems will be even harder for him this year...


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

He hasn't won an XCO World Cup since Les Gets 2019; have a guess were the World Champs are this year.......I never write him off, he's nearly always there, his technical skills keep him in races. 

Will be interesting to see were Pidcock does his first World Cup, as he's down for the Giro in May, so it may be the later summer races he turns up in. As for MvdP, who knows......if we see him on the MTB this year.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> He hasn't won an XCO World Cup since Les Gets 2019; have a guess were the World Champs are this year.......I never write him off, he's nearly always there, his technical skills keep him in races.
> 
> Will be interesting to see were Pidcock does his first World Cup, as he's down for the Giro in May, so it may be the later summer races he turns up in. As for MvdP, who knows......if we see him on the MTB this year.


I believe the best MvdP we are ever going to see on the MTB was the 2019 version. I don't think he will be that good again...seems like he has used up his body.


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

gat3keeper said:


> Who's your bet this year for w xco?
> 
> 1. Lecomte
> 2. Neff
> ...


How about Mona? She's in elite now, right?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I wonder if Kate Courtney is still doing all of her off-bike stuff. 

I think Scott-SRAM will keep her on board unless she falls completely off the map but her results last year were not great compared to previous seasons.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> I wonder if Kate Courtney is still doing all of her off-bike stuff.


Kate takes a bit of flack for her off the bike work. But what is missed is that Kate probably has, by a significant margin, the highest on the bike volume of all the top riders.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think Evie Richards is going to be the rider to beat next year. She will probably be a bit off early season again, but come the heart of the season will be firing on all cyclinders.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> I think Evie Richards is going to be the rider to beat next year. She will probably be a bit off early season again, but come the heart of the season will be firing on all cyclinders.


Evie's had a nice off-season and skipped all the CX racing. Hopefully that will leave her mentally fresh and ready to race when the XCO season starts.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> I wonder if Kate Courtney is still doing all of her off-bike stuff.
> 
> I think Scott-SRAM will keep her on board unless she falls completely off the map but her results last year were not great compared to previous seasons.
> 
> ...


She's always strong at first half of the race then seem to fade towards the end. Bit of bad luck in few occasions.

Im no expert but her warm ups prior race bothers me. I mean compare to others, seem like it's too much that it exudes her energy.

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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Kate was burned out last year. Too much training volume in my opinion. She always looked tired, her legs looked slow and heavy which time are indications of overtraining. I could be wrong and I probably am


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## KonaSS (Sep 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> Kate takes a bit of flack for her off the bike work. But what is missed is that Kate probably has, by a significant margin, the highest on the bike volume of all the top riders.





Brad said:


> Kate was burned out last year. Too much training volume in my opinion. She always looked tired, her legs looked slow and heavy which time are indications of overtraining. I could be wrong and I probably am


Was going to ask a similar question to LMN - is being the volume leader a good thing? Maybe she should do less? Not that I should ever compare myself to a pro athlete, but I had my two biggest ever volume years in the past two years, and some of my most mediocre results. My experiment this year is to back down the volume, and hope it results in better quality workouts and better results.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

KonaSS said:


> Was going to ask a similar question to LMN - is being the volume leader a good thing? Maybe she should do less? Not that I should ever compare myself to a pro athlete, but I had my two biggest ever volume years in the past two years, and some of my most mediocre results. My experiment this year is to back down the volume, and hope it results in better quality workouts and better results.


It is really hard to tell. When you examine multiple sports you do see high volume athletes dominating and you also see low volume athletes dominating too. The answer to question, "too much or too little or just right" isn't clear. I know in mountain biking world cup winners have volumes ranges from 600-1000 annual hours.

If I were to take a wild guess on what went wrong with Kate's season last year I would say that her team underestimated how much energy it takes to heal a broken bone. Combine healing, heavy training, and record heat and I would guess that Kate had real problems adapting to the training that she did.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> Evie's had a nice off-season and skipped all the CX racing. Hopefully that will leave her mentally fresh and ready to race when the XCO season starts.


She's been at the Trek-Segafredo team training camps (along with Hattie, Maddie) so has been putting some miles in. She was meant to be at the Christmas CX races, but pulled out due to sickness, etc


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## TDLover (Sep 14, 2014)

I don't think Batty is ever coming back to the top, she has had medium success, but I'm afraid the sail has shipped for her. Wouldn't be surprised if she retires this year from XCO. 

As for Loana, I'm not sure she can dominate like last year only to deflate at the end, she will probably take a more conservative approach. Sina might actually be a good contender for 2022, she seems to be always consistent. On the women field its all caos, the dominant riders disappear quickly and a lot of them never come back. 

I'm afraid for MVdP as well, this injury might be the one that ruins his career.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> Kate takes a bit of flack for her off the bike work. But what is missed is that Kate probably has, by a significant margin, the highest on the bike volume of all the top riders.


Well then that explains some of it. Doing super high volume + a lot of off-bike work seems like a recipe for disaster. If you can manage it, great, but once it starts heading down hill, doing more of the same is digging your own grave.

Is she still coached by Jim Miller? 


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> It is really hard to tell. When you examine multiple sports you do see high volume athletes dominating and you also see low volume athletes dominating too. The answer to question, "too much or too little or just right" isn't clear. I know in mountain biking world cup winners have volumes ranges from 600-1000 annual hours.
> 
> If I were to take a wild guess on what went wrong with Kate's season last year I would say that her team underestimated how much energy it takes to heal a broken bone. Combine healing, heavy training, and record heat and I would guess that Kate had real problems adapting to the training that she did.


The broken bone aspect is actually quite interesting…
In 2020 I came off in my last XCP of the season. It was a mud bath. Torrential downpour the morning of the event turned the course into soup. Last lap, 1,5km from the finish lying 3rd I lose the front wheel in the mud and end up in a ditch with a comminuted clavicle fracture. A week later I was back on the bike on the trainer and another week thereafter back on a road bike. 
jan 2021 covid hit…
2021 was a horrid season. Couldn’t get my power back. Took some time away from training for 6 weeks and boom the numbers are back at the end of first training block. 
proper rest is underated


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think that is absolutely true. And knowing when to rest is important. Not carrying on or rushing back too soon.....Last year Pauline called it quits after the XCC race in Lenzerheide as it wasn't happening for her......carrying on would be counter productive. 

I really hope MvdP gets proper rest, and recovers; and isn't rushed back for the spring classics....


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

It's so tempting to make generalizations about what certain athletes are doing wrong. My guess is Kate is probably doing something wrong but I couldn't begin to tell you what that might be because I don't know her and don't know her strengths and weaknesses. 

If someone gave me a blueprint of how Evie Richards trained without telling me that it's Evie Richards, I'd never guess she was a world class athlete because she does so many things "wrong." Lots of off the bike stuff (running, gym, pilates), doesn't know her own FTP, trains by feel and heart rate only, etc. But she has obviously figured out something about her own body and pscyhe. 








How I train: Evie Richards


The reigning cross-country mountain bike world champion reveals how she stays in optimum shape.




www.redbull.com


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

tick_magnet said:


> If someone gave me a blueprint of how Evie Richards trained without telling me that it's Evie Richards, I'd never guess she was a world class athlete because she does so many things "wrong." Lots of off the bike stuff (running, gym, pilates), doesn't know her own FTP, trains by feel and heart rate only, etc. But she has obviously figured out something about her own body and pscyhe.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Actually how Evie trains is a lot more common among the champions in the sport than most think. All that really matters is the stress and rest cycle. Athletes who take a carefree approach to training often nail their rest. Under-training with good recovery beats overtraining with poor recovery every time.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Well then that explains some of it. Doing super high volume + a lot of off-bike work seems like a recipe for disaster. If you can manage it, great, but once it starts heading down hill, doing more of the same is digging your own grave.
> 
> Is she still coached by Jim Miller?
> 
> ...


Yeah...apparently Jim coaches some of the top racers. I've heard Blevins and Swenson are also under Jim Miller, but Haley Batten is with Kristin Armstrong.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

TDLover said:


> Sina might actually be a good contender for 2022, she seems to be always consistent.


I was really impressed with how she finished her 2021 season between the Olympics and Worlds and then thoroughly dominating the Cape Epic with Stigger. Amazing to win a World Championship in a 20 min race and then blow away the field in a stage race with 75-100 km per day of racing. Certainly seems like she has the ability to move up in the World Cup standings this year.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I was really impressed with how she finished her 2021 season between the Olympics and Worlds and then thoroughly dominating the Cape Epic with Stigger. Amazing to win a World Championship in a 20 min race and then blow away the field in a stage race with 75-100 km per day of racing. Certainly seems like she has the ability to move up in the World Cup standings this year.


Frei and Stigger didn't really have competition. The pairing of Robyn De Groot and Ariane Luthi hit trouble early on with De Groot falling ill. Lill and Strauss also didn't race in nearly the same league as Sina and Laura in the XCO races all year. Candice opted to earn most of her points for Tokyo at home and Mariske had a lot of bad luck that resulted in fewer laps than she needed. She was also newly wed and then spent a lot of time in The Netherlands preparing for the season so home sickness hurt her a lot. She's racing for Liv SA now so she'll spend more tim at home with her hubby and fly to the races shes entered for. Shes been racking up the Km's with Yolanda, Linda, and Sina in Stellenbosch. Not sure Sina is defending Cape Epic title with Laura or Haley. Chris is riding with Matt Beers of Specialized SA.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

The UCI team list is published now and Stephane Tempier is moving from Trek Factory to Rockrider, that was a bit unexpected.

Some new names in the Canyon team joining Loana Lecomte as well. As a swede I am happy to see Team31 continue, and that they have added a third rider as well.

The list is here:








Mountain bike riders/teams






www.uci.org


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Skier78 said:


> As a swede I am happy to see Team31 continue, and that they have added a third rider as well.


I am curious to see if they are still on Specialized. I had rumours of them on another bike brand.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Skier78 said:


> The UCI team list is published now and Stephane Tempier is moving from Trek Factory to Rockrider, that was a bit unexpected.
> 
> Some new names in the Canyon team joining Loana Lecomte as well. As a swede I am happy to see Team31 continue, and that they have added a third rider as well.
> 
> ...


Loana broke her clavicle today in a training ride.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

That won’t be a problem. She’ll be on her bike in 10days


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Line Burquier (Junior World/European XCO Champion, French CX Champion) to Canyon is an interesting move - don't recall that news. She's currently with AS Bike team for the CX season.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

LMN said:


> I am curious to see if they are still on Specialized. I had rumours of them on another bike brand.


I have not heard anything about it but they don't give out very much information at all. Right now it is mostly xc skiing and indoor biking in that part of Sweden. The new addition (Linn) was on Trek last year.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

PFP is training with Cecile Ravanel on enduro bike, also with Kilian Bron.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Mate of mine was riding with Jolanda in the week. He’s an enduro /DH guy. He really struggled to keep up with her on her XC bike and he was on his trail bike


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## cbenj42 (Jul 16, 2012)

LMN said:


> I am curious to see if they are still on Specialized. I had rumours of them on another bike brand.


I can (probably) confirm these rumors. I work as a mechanic in an Ibis dealer local to Urban in Northern California. Ibis sent its new Exie race bike to the shop to have assembled for her. 
It's a gorgeous bike, and I'm happy to see the brand returning to the World Cup after a very long hiatus. With Rissveds, Ibis has a real shot at winning a race. The last WC (of any kind) won on an Ibis was the Houffalize XC Eliminator with Brian Lopes in 2012.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cbenj42 said:


> I can (probably) confirm these rumors. I work as a mechanic in an Ibis dealer local to Urban in Northern California. Ibis sent its new Exie race bike to the shop to have assembled for her.
> It's a gorgeous bike, and I'm happy to see the brand returning to the World Cup after a very long hiatus. With Rissveds, Ibis has a real shot at winning a race. The last WC (of any kind) won on an Ibis was the Houffalize XC Eliminator with Brian Lopes in 2012.


Yep that was the bike I heard they were racing on. There is another rider who has podiumed before racing Ibis too.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I saw on Instagram the Specialized Factory team are training in California. They were at the Specialized Wind tunnel getting aero for those Short Track races...they now have the men's and women's World Champion short track racers (Blevins and Frei) on the team.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Brad said:


> Mate of mine was riding with Jokanda in the week. He’s an enduro /DH guy. He really struggled to keep up with her on her XC bike and he was on his trail bike


I was out with the Ghost factory ladies,......yikes they're fast and skiiiiiiiiiiilllls. Team is looking good for Brasil


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Yep that was the bike I heard they were racing on. There is another rider who has podiumed before racing Ibis too.


I heard the same this weekend from my neighbour who works at the local distributor. He did not confirm it as a done deal but it's close to it.

PS: and her Insta feed shows she's landed in California


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Master class by Pidock out there today. Obviously he had the legs, but how he positioned himself and controlled the race while in bunch early on was something to see.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Brad said:


> Frei and Stigger didn't really have competition. The pairing of Robyn De Groot and Ariane Luthi hit trouble early on with De Groot falling ill. Lill and Strauss also didn't race in nearly the same league as Sina and Laura in the XCO races all year. Candice opted to earn most of her points for Tokyo at home and Mariske had a lot of bad luck that resulted in fewer laps than she needed. She was also newly wed and then spent a lot of time in The Netherlands preparing for the season so home sickness hurt her a lot. She's racing for Liv SA now so she'll spend more tim at home with her hubby and fly to the races shes entered for. Shes been racking up the Km's with Yolanda, Linda, and Sina in Stellenbosch. Not sure Sina is defending Cape Epic title with Laura or Haley. Chris is riding with Matt Beers of Specialized SA.


I have become a big fan of the Cape Epic; I watched all the stages live last year. 

How did you find out Blevins was riding with Beers? I know Sarrou was a last minute replacement last year, but he obviously had great success, especially since he was new to marathon. Is it unusual for a winning team not defend their title?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

gat3keeper said:


> Yeah. Thats what I thought too. Watching her last year, seem like she is not giving an effort to be at least on top 10.
> 
> Hmmm how can she market if results are poor though. ? Personally, when I want a new bike, first thing I will do is look for what the winners or champs are using.
> 
> Sent from my 2107113SG using Tapatalk


If you don’t already understand, we probably aren’t going to be able to explain it to you. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

celswick said:


> I have become a big fan of the Cape Epic; I watched all the stages live last year.
> 
> How did you find out Blevins was riding with Beers? I know Sarrou was a last minute replacement last year, but he obviously had great success, especially since he was new to marathon. Is it unusual for a winning team not defend their title?
> 
> ...


Sarrou won’t be back to defend his title because the first XCO in Brasil is so close to the finish of the cape epic.
Then I bumped into Matt during a training ride and asked and he answered the he would likely ride with Christopher due to the first XCO. Jordan wasn’t keen. 
the ladies race is going to be thin again due to Brasil. The logistics of getting equipment to SA and then to Brasil is hard due to customs laws and practices being made up as we go along through this ‘pandemic’


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Tom Pidcock just rode away from everybody on the steep hills at the Cyclocross world championships in NW Arkansas. 










Looks like MVDP's back has recovered, but he withdrew due to a recent knee injury. 

Hoping both of these guys will drop back into World Cup XCO races this year.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

LMN said:


> Master class by Pidock out there today. Obviously he had the legs, but how he positioned himself and controlled the race while in bunch early on was something to see.


Really a bummer van Aert and van der Poel weren't in the race.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

So boring!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

chomxxo said:


> Looks like MVDP's back has recovered, but he withdrew due to a recent knee injury.
> 
> Hoping both of these guys will drop back into World Cup XCO races this year.


He crashed in training injuring his knee, and delayed his return. He came back on Boxing Day, and finished 2nd - but pulled out of a race in Zolder the next day to to back issues. Since then he had his knee operated on to sort it out - and was confined to rest, so he can fully recover from the ongoing back issues.

One suspects we won't see them until the latter half of the season; Pidcock is doing a full spring classics campaign, and is down for the Giro in May. As for MvdP, who knows?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> was confined to rest, so he can fully recover from the ongoing back issues.
> 
> As for MvdP, who knows?


He did a couple stages of the Tour de Zwift in the last couple days. 200w average... so, yes. Resting.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Scott-Sram with Nino and Lars will race Cape epic.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Skarhead said:


> Scott-Sram with Nino and Lars will race Cape epic.


Yes I heard this yesterday. Interesting decision. I think Nino realises he needs the extra training in the heat.
He is also riding the Tankwa Trek this weekend with a Filipino Colombo ( who happened to win a marathon just outside Stellenbosch on Saturday in 43degree celcius temps (in the shade but there is no shade)


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Chris confirmed on his Insta feed he's riding Cape Epic with Matt Beers


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Haley Batten is doing Cape Epic with Sophia Villafane from Argentina/USA. 


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Brad said:


> Chris confirmed on his Insta feed he's riding Cape Epic with Matt Beers


Cape Epic also has a story about it on their website. The team will be called Toyota Ninety One Specialized. I’m really looking forward to watching this year. 


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Skier78 said:


> I have not heard anything about it but they don't give out very much information at all. Right now it is mostly xc skiing and indoor biking in that part of Sweden. The new addition (Linn) was on Trek last year.


She just posted a story with some POC things. POC was Linns sponsor last year also. So i guess if she is not wearing specialized helmet maybe indeed we are gonna see something different this year!

Edit: just saw the previous messages about ibis!! Will be interesting!!


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

celswick said:


> Cape Epic also has a story about it on their website. The team will be called Toyota Ninety One Specialized. I’m really looking forward to watching this year.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yip thats right. NinetyOne has been supporting Specialized's effort at the absa Cape Epic since 2006 and will continue to do so. Hendrik is very passionate about his cycling


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> She just posted a story with some POC things. POC was Linns sponsor last year also. So i guess if she is not wearing specialized helmet maybe indeed we are gonna see something different this year!
> 
> Edit: just saw the previous messages about ibis!! Will be interesting!!


POC also sponsors the Swedish national team so will likely case less friction.
AS for Ibis, I believe the deal was initiated on Jenny's side.


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

That's true, Wasn't it with POC and Scott back to those days that they got some issues?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Yeah it was the conflict between her trade contract (Scott Sports) and her obligations to her Cycling Federations contracts (POC Sports in the case of helmets )that caused the break down. There is very good reason why she left Scott


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> Yeah it was the conflict between her trade contract (Scott Sports) and her obligations to her Cycling Federations contracts (POC Sports in the case of helmets )that caused the break down. There is very good reason why she left Scott


I found it a slightly bizarre conflict; lot of sports have different sponsors/suppliers between a club team, and the national team - and it very rarely causes any issue.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> I found it a slightly bizarre conflict; lot of sports have different sponsors/suppliers between a club team, and the national team - and it very rarely causes any issue.


It was bizarre. The trade team usually defers to the riders federation apparel sponsors for the Olympic Games. Somehow Scott sports decided it wasn’t going to work that way with her helmet. She out a brave face but at the end of the day her racing license is endorsed by her countries IOC representative body and without it she would not be able to ply her trade. It was a really Shyte position to be placed by your trade team. The rest is history.


----------



## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Victor Koretzky on a mountain bike for his new team. Hope he gets the chance to do a world cup race this season as well.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

He's not the only one racing on the road; MIlan Vader makes his debut for Jumbo-Visma in the Vuelta Comunitat Valenciana; and Sam Gaze is riding in the Etoile des Besseges. Good luck to them all - but we need to see them regularly on the MTB. It's not for all, as Ondrej Cink proved.


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Injured arm for lecomte?!


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Nice to see decathlon and Manitou back to racing 🙌


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Rockrider va a por los JJOO de París 2024 con un nuevo y ambicioso equipo


Veremos a Rockrider en las mejores carreras de XCO del planeta gracias a su nuevo equipo internacional que se ha marcado los Juegos Olímpicos de París 2024 como objetivo




esmtb.com





Some pics and details.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

In case you missed it (or want more information): www.xcodata.com/transfers lists all transfers between UCI teams and also a list of UCI team "debutants". 
I also did a lot of work on the rider profiles/team profiles/race pages.
Hope it is of use for someone. If you have any ideas for new features or find bugs, just let me know.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

xcodata said:


> In case you missed it (or want more information): www.xcodata.com/transfers lists all transfers between UCI teams and also a list of UCI team "debutants".
> I also did a lot of work on the rider profiles/team profiles/race pages.
> Hope it is of use for someone. If you have any ideas for new features or find bugs, just let me know.


Nice work! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Anton Sintov joins Orbea Factory Team


----------



## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

One thing noted in forums last year is that finish times were decreasing. I seem to recall that the UCI rules for XCO time-based duration for WC elite was 1:30-1.45. However in looking up the rules I noticed it's been changed down to 1:20-:140. 

I think this is great, makes it more explosive and spectator-friendly. A lot of local series back in the states have yet to pick this up; I'm seeing a lot of long race loops centered around 1,2,3 lap races (cat 3,2,1) at the 9-11 mile mark, where 7.5-8 miles max for amateurs makes a lot more sense.

















Regulations


Rules & Official documents of the UCI



www.uci.org


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I just watched at replay of the 2009 World Championships, and Nino’s winning time was 2:04:39. 

The days of Tomac and Overend had 2.5
-3 hour races. I guess the shorter multi-lap races do make it more exciting to watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

Stonerider said:


> Nice work! Thanks for sharing.


Thanks! Glad you find it useful.
Adding more and more stuff, so be sure to check from time to time.
Results are always updated as soon as they are published by UCI.



chomxxo said:


> One thing noted in forums last year is that finish times were decreasing. I seem to recall that the UCI rules for XCO time-based duration for WC elite was 1:30-1.45. However in looking up the rules I noticed it's been changed down to 1:20-:140.
> 
> I think this is great, makes it more explosive and spectator-friendly. A lot of local series back in the states have yet to pick this up; I'm seeing a lot of long race loops centered around 1,2,3 lap races (cat 3,2,1) at the 9-11 mile mark, where 7.5-8 miles max for amateurs makes a lot more sense.
> 
> ...





celswick said:


> I just watched at replay of the 2009 World Championships, and Nino’s winning time was 2:04:39.
> 
> The days of Tomac and Overend had 2.5
> -3 hour races. I guess the shorter multi-lap races do make it more exciting to watch.
> ...


Yeah, I noticed too. Wanted to take a dive into my database, but did not find the time to do in detail.
So here's just a quick look at the average race times from world cups (2009 - 2021):

*Men:*









*Women:*









It's interesting to see that average race times for men have decreased more in the past but now both genders have nearly equal race times.
Will definitely have a detailed look in those data (not only from world cups) in the future. I can post here, if you'd like.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I really appreciate the attention to detail, xcodata. One thing to spell out, with XCO the UCI regulates the finish times to within a range. They also regulate the range of lap distances in km. The pro men and women race a separate number of laps depending upon the predicted finish time for their gender.

Although I personally can't remember, your data suggests that the 1:30-1:45 finish time regulations for men and women started in 2011. Again I don't know which year it was shifted down to 1:20-1:40, but by the data I'd guess that regulation started in the 2019 season.

I'd personally like this to influence amateur racing as well. Centering XCO around the 90-minute mark is ideal because 90 minutes to 2 hours is still generally pre-endurance phase, muscle glycogen instead of fat burning. Nobody, pro to weekend warrior, can continue to go as hard as they did for the first 90 minutes. 

I'd like amateur XC races to be this duration, but Cat 1 races in my region tend to drag on for more than 2 hours. This happens for various reasons: the promoter wants to show off their entire local trails, they think it's "tougher," some competitors think a longer race is more interesting.




xcodata said:


> Thanks! Glad you find it useful.
> Adding more and more stuff, so be sure to check from time to time.
> Results are always updated as soon as they are published by UCI.
> 
> ...


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

2019 is when XCC came into the mix as a permanent feature and the XCO race time range was shifted to 1:20 to 1:40 accordingly 
Prior to that it was 1:30 to 1:45 ( 2013 to 2018 )
Up until the London olympics the XCO race could be up 2hrs long
For amateur races this was a nightmare as the event organisers could not get as many races into a day so often the racing would need to be split over the weekend, adding cost. The shorter formats allow more races in one day and we’ve seen the growth that this has resulted in.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

Brad said:


> 2019 is when XCC came into the mix as a permanent feature and the XCO race time range was shifted to 1:20 to 1:40 accordingly
> Prior to that it was 1:30 to 1:45 ( 2013 to 2018 )
> Up until the London olympics the XCO race could be up 2hrs long
> For amateur races this was a nightmare as the event organisers could not get as many races into a day so often the racing would need to be split over the weekend, adding cost. The shorter formats allow more races in one day and we’ve seen the growth that this has resulted in.


Thanks for your input. I couldn't remember when exactly the new rules were introduced.



chomxxo said:


> I really appreciate the attention to detail, xcodata. One thing to spell out, with XCO the UCI regulates the finish times to within a range. They also regulate the range of lap distances in km. The pro men and women race a separate number of laps depending upon the predicted finish time for their gender.
> 
> Although I personally can't remember, your data suggests that the 1:30-1:45 finish time regulations for men and women started in 2011. Again I don't know which year it was shifted down to 1:20-1:40, but by the data I'd guess that regulation started in the 2019 season.
> 
> ...


Yeah, when having a closer look at the data it would definitely make sense to also include upper and lower bounds.
For example in 2009 the first race winning time was > 2 h, but it doesn't show in the avg. winning times.

I can't remember exactly when the UCI decreased the finishing time range... I also wondered because in my memory races have been longer between 2010 - 2017 ... which obviously wasn't the case (at least on average).

I also quite like the shorter events. IMHO the UCI could even go down to 1:15 h max.
Right now I do not have many data collected, but race analysis shows that positions do not change much in the last lap. Here are two examples:

Albstadt in 2021: MERCEDES-BENZ UCI MTB WORLD CUP - XCO/XCC // XCODATA.com
Nove Mesto in 2021: MERCEDES-BENZ UCI MTB WORLD CUP - XCO/XCC // XCODATA.com

You could easily cut the last lap (so shorten the race to 1:05 - 1:15 h) and the result wouldn't change. BUT I guess it would make racing more exciting for spectators and also better to cover for TV stations etc.

Your point about amateur races is a good one too. I work with youth athletes. One of the juniors said to me after a long race last year, that he doesn't understand why he - as a 16 year old - needs to race 1:15 h when the pros in the world cup race barely longer... he definitly has a good point there! 
Although I must say, he isn't racing for the first places on national level... winning time was (if I remember correctly) ~ 1:05 h ... but still.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I can see MTB racing going the route of XC ski racing.

Amateur races are going to be longer (2-3hrs) and on a single loop or have a long lap that you do 2 or 3 times. Where as professional and youth categories that feed professional ranks will be XCO style races. 

To be honest at 45, I not really into doing 7 laps of course in 1:20. Give me a nice long loop that takes just over 2hrs please.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

You mean like a marathon… only shorter by an hour


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> You mean like a marathon… only shorter by an hour


Not really. Marathon has become it own thing. Most marathon courses are honestly pretty boring, lots of road and the single track that they have is pretty tame. I know there are exceptions but that is the norm.

I am more referring to old school XC but on modern trails.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Not really. Marathon has become it own thing. Most marathon courses are honestly pretty boring, lots of road and the single track that they have is pretty tame. I know there are exceptions but that is the norm.
> 
> I am more referring to old school XC but on modern trails.


We have what you are looking for. Any of our short route marathon races of 40to 5okm are fairly technical and take around 2hrs for a fast amateur. Even our marathons are between 65k. To 90km with very technical sections. Guys like Matt Beers complete a 65km route in about 2hr :15 to 2hr 30
Our marathon isn’t the same as marathon elsewhere


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## afalts (Dec 7, 2011)

Brad said:


> We have what you are looking for. Any of our short route marathon races of 40to 5okm are fairly technical and take around 2hrs for a fast amateur. Even our marathons are between 65k. To 90km with very technical sections. Guys like Matt Beers complete a 65km route in about 2hr :15 to 2hr 30
> Our marathon isn’t the same as marathon elsewhere


65 km in 2.5 hours is not a technical course and sounds exactly like the type of marathon LMN was describing. Around here 2:15-2:30 xc racing for top guys gets you 35-45 km on a technical course


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## joe j (Nov 15, 2008)

LMN said:


> Not really. Marathon has become it own thing. Most marathon courses are honestly pretty boring, lots of road and the single track that they have is pretty tame. I know there are exceptions but that is the norm.
> 
> I am more referring to old school XC but on modern trails.


This was exactly why I stopped racing X/C. Our local series in NY/NJ decided to shorten the races.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

afalts said:


> 65 km in 2.5 hours is not a technical course and sounds exactly like the type of marathon LMN was describing. Around here 2:15-2:30 xc racing for top guys gets you 35-45 km on a technical course


Exactly

For example
Whistler Back Forty marathon 29.4 km (it is only 40 km if you ride from the finish back to the start for the beer and pizza)
Lief Rodgers 2:36 male winner (Giant Canada Off-Road Team - World Cup level) 
Brittany Phelan 3:30 female winner (Olympic Ski Cross Silver Medallist & EWS Racer)


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Brad said:


> You mean like a marathon… only shorter by an hour


Yes, and I and many I know prefer a single lap race for marathon as well vs a 2 lap, and definitely better than a 3 lap. 

A Multi-Lap marathon and XCO provides the advantage of learning some lines (or repeating mistakes) and easier aid stations to set up bottles for self supported setup. 

A single big lap really is the heart of mountain biking. But there aren’t a lot of trail systems that allow for it. It takes planning and strategy, calmness under adversity and speedy mechanic skills. Some time the Nutrition/hydration chess match is a big part of the outcome. Bottom line, the 40+ men voted (as did our board)to have everyone under 50yo do a 3 lap race on the 8-10 mile multi lap races where relevant. Keeping it more old school XCO. 

Some people don’t like longer XCO events, because they are bad at them, due to Fitness, nutrition, and Grit. Bottom line, if you are prepared in those areas, the length doesn’t matter. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

afalts said:


> 65 km in 2.5 hours is not a technical course and sounds exactly like the type of marathon LMN was describing. Around here 2:15-2:30 xc racing for top guys gets you 35-45 km on a technical course


yeah I hear you. marathon courses typically do have to have a lot of fire road or gravel road to link trails. It also provides access for emergency vehicles to reach injured riders so we can't get away from that. Event insurance is significantly higher today that it as 10 years ago. The ability of emergency services to get to a patient is part of the course design criteria.
So here we have like 5-10km of really technical trails linked by fire road. Our courses aren't tame by any stretch but I guess "technical" is relative


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Brad said:


> yeah I hear you. marathon courses typically do have to have a lot of fire road or gravel road to link trails. It also provides access for emergency vehicles to reach injured riders so we can't get away from that. Event insurance is significantly higher today that it as 10 years ago. The ability of emergency services to get to a patient is part of the course design criteria.
> So here we have like 5-10km of really technical trails linked by fire road. Our courses aren't tame by any stretch but I guess "technical" is relative


It probably depends on the amount of climbing as well... even technical courses here are relatively high-speed as the terrain is rolling, not mountainous.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> It probably depends on the amount of climbing as well... even technical courses here are relatively high-speed as the terrain is rolling, not mountainous.


Very good point


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-complete-guide-to-the-2022-world-cup-xc-teams.html


----------



## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Thanks for the link, great coverage from Pinkbike.

Despite my predections, Thomus continues to field a strong team including the World Champ. Too bad nobody in the States can buy their bikes...


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Maxxis factory team is a thing now, on Ibis too it appears. Excited to see where Haley and co go from here.

__
http://instagr.am/p/CZzZWQNpykS/


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cal_len1 said:


> Maxxis factory team is a thing now, on Ibis too it appears. Excited to see where Haley and co go from here.
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CZzZWQNpykS/


Very interesting...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> Thanks for the link, great coverage from Pinkbike.
> 
> Despite my predictions, Thomus continues to field a strong team including the World Champ. Too bad nobody in the States can buy their bikes...


My team is in that list!!! Yay!!! We are first year UCI Elite. 

Plus, in the next two weeks, the whole gang from Norco and Maxxis Factory plus Kate Courtney are coming down here for a roaster (heat, humidity, etc) of two UCI C1 races on back to back weekends.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Here is a link to the first event. 









Home | TropicalMTBChallenge


Tropical MTB Challenge es un evento C1 y Jr Series del calendario internacional UCI para la temporada 2022. Este evento se estará celebrando los días 18, 19 y 20 de Febrero del 2022 en las facilidades del Albergue Olímpico, Salinas Puerto Rico. Sport.




en.tropicalmtbchallenge.com


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cal_len1 said:


> Maxxis factory team is a thing now, on Ibis too it appears. Excited to see where Haley and co go from here.


Interestingly that team is sort of a spin off of the old Cliff Team. It was the GM of Cliff team that got that one rolling. If you know sponsors you will see a lot of over lap.


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

Pidcock not on this list but hopefully he still takes part on some races. I guess ineos colors.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Pidcock will participate in some of the World Cup events when they don’t clash with his road duties. He’s supposed to ride the Giro d’Italia in May so we’ll only see him after that most likely. Van Der Poel also only anticipated to be back racing his Mtb mid year


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Koretzky & Vader also now on road teams; will be interesting to see how much they do. And what bike Vader will be on....


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Thought Keegan Swenson was with Santa Cruz…different team than listed or no team and he rides solo? Anyone know?


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MattMay said:


> Thought Keegan Swenson was with Santa Cruz…different team than listed or no team and he rides solo? Anyone know?


He isn't on their UCI team. Pretty common for that to happen.

His partner, Sophia, rides for Specialize but isn't on their UCI team.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Ah. Thx!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Most likely a cannondale Scalpel or Santa Cruz Blur XC since these are owned by PON Holdings that also own Cervelo


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> Pidcock will participate in some of the World Cup events when they don’t clash with his road duties. He’s supposed to ride the Giro d’Italia in May so we’ll only see him after that most likely. Van Der Poel also only anticipated to be back racing his Mtb mid year


Pidcock wanted to become first male rider with 3 world titles on one season, so far one down, 2 more to go and if he can get anywhere close to the form he had last season then XCO title is already his, only road left then


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

Reto Indergand and Aleksandra Ushakova won the Karaburun C2 race in Turkey today:








XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.




www.xcodata.com





Really happy for Reto Indergand. He seems like a very nice guy.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Some eye candy from the past XCM World Champion...









Bicis de los pro: Lee Cougan Crossfire 428 de Leonardo Paez


La Lee Cougan Crossfire 428 de Leonardo Paez al detalle. Con componentes de titanio y un cuadro con las vainas extremadamente cortas para una doble de XC




esmtb.com


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

carlostruco said:


> Some eye candy from the past XCM World Champion...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Beautiful bike.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> Some eye candy from the past XCM World Champion...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting custom setup for the tire plug tool 😆. What it's lacking in aesthetics it makes up for in practicality, but I'd hate for that tool to come loose in a crash and land on it...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Very Anthem'esq.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Very Anthem'esq.


It’s what you get when a Spark, super calibre and Anthem get together for a threesome and have a child


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Some good racing starting tomorrow with the Short Track. Scroll down the menu to see all participants. 









Tropical MTB Challenge XCO Short Track, 2022-02-18 : : my.race|result


Tropical MTB Challenge XCO Short Track, 2022-02-18, Salinas




my.raceresult.com





There is a good chance drones and live feed from different sources might be posted here. 









Comisión de Mountain Bike de Puerto Rico - Página Oficial


Comisión de Mountain Bike de Puerto Rico - Página Oficial. နှစ်သက်သူ ၆,၀၀၃ ဦး · ၃၉ ဦး ဒီအကြေင်းပြေနေသည်. Página Oficial de la Comisión de Mountain Bike de Puerto Rico fomentado el cliclismo...




www.facebook.com


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Very interesting custom setup for the tire plug tool 😆. What it's lacking in aesthetics it makes up for in practicality, but I'd hate for that tool to come loose in a crash and land on it...


Is he the only one that managed to blend sram components with fox shocks?! Also magura brakes with galfer staff and capo crankset quite a frankenstein bike!


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Looks like MVDP's back is feeling better... he's, uh.... ramping up the miles.  We might see him sometime this year yet....


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

He wasn't resting for very long, was he? I just hope he/ his team aren't rushing back again......


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Live XCO action from Chelva - a few big names taking place, and in nice weather.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

For everybody who missed the livestream, here are the results:








XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.




www.xcodata.com


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

xcodata said:


> For everybody who missed the livestream, here are the results:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What happened to Evie Richards...mechanical or crash?


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I can confirm that Team31 is going to race on Ibis bikes. I didn't had the chance to take a picture, but the bike looks awesome!!!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Here is a link for pictures of the Short Track on Friday. In one of the pictures you can clearly see Kelsey Urban's bike. Also, take a loo at Kate Courtey and the SRAM power meter. It looks different to what we've seen the past two years. I have a pending conversation with Brad about it to see if anything changed. Hopefully I'll have some details later in the week.



https://fotogandul.pixieset.com/tropicalmtbchallenge2022/


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

The UCI set to partner with Discovery Sports for the organisation and promotion of the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup from 2023


At its recent meeting in Montreux (Switzerland) from 10 to 12 February, the Management Committee of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) decided to enter into exclusive negotiations with Discovery Sports for the organisation and promotion of the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup for eight seasons...



www.uci.org





Disappointing news; Red Bull have done so much for the MTB World Cup, and free to air as well. I'm not sure how this is good news.


----------



## EdWiser (Feb 3, 2021)

Discovery sports is GCN so this is a good thing more racing coverage live. 
Watch all the cyclocross races on GCN+ 







DISCOVERY SPORTS UNVEILED TO SHOWCASE THE SCALE AND OPPORTUNITY PRESENTED BY ITS COMBINED SPORTS OFFERING – Discovery, Inc.







corporate.discovery.com


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It seems a lot of the free things on the internet are coming to an end. More and more news and media sites are switching to pay-model, not surprised to see WC racing go that model. I just hope that is under the GCN Race Pass, I really don't mind paying for bike racing, I just don't want to be paying to five different providers.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> The UCI set to partner with Discovery Sports for the organisation and promotion of the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup from 2023
> 
> 
> At its recent meeting in Montreux (Switzerland) from 10 to 12 February, the Management Committee of the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) decided to enter into exclusive negotiations with Discovery Sports for the organisation and promotion of the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup for eight seasons...
> ...


This is terrible news. Red Bull defined the standard by which every other coverage is measured. Even if they do the coverage "as well as", now I have to pay for it. 

I follow a lot of motorcycle and auto racing and they have been doing this for years. There's a lot of racing I just don't watch any more.


----------



## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

LMN said:


> It seems a lot of the free things on the internet are coming to an end. More and more news and media sites are switching to pay-model, not surprised to see WC racing go that model. I just hope that is under the GCN Race Pass, I really don't mind paying for bike racing, I just don't want to be paying to five different providers.


That’s how I feel about it as well. I don’t mind paying as long as it’s all under one umbrella. I hate having to piecemeal my coverage together.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm already a Eurosport subscriber, so I may be okay; but that's not the point - loss of free to air isn't great for the sport.

However, and playing Devil's Advocate - maybe Discovery have promised more rounds, exposure, return on investment? It seems mad that the World Cup has been going for approx 30 years, and the number of rounds is so small. This year sees 9 rounds, so 9 XCO & 9 XCC = 18 races for the top riders. It's not a lot really, is it? I don't want to see a CX style World Cup with too many rounds, but you'd think at least 12 should be possible.
And something that needs addressing - the lack of non cycling sponsors. Segafredo sponsor the Trek roads teams; why aren't they sponsoring the Trek MTB teams? If we see more 'outside' sponsors, then it may well be worth it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> I'm already a Eurosport subscriber, so I may be okay; but that's not the point - loss of free to air isn't great for the sport.
> 
> However, and playing Devil's Advocate - maybe Discovery have promised more rounds, exposure, return on investment? It seems mad that the World Cup has been going for approx 30 years, and the number of rounds is so small. This year sees 9 rounds, so 9 XCO & 9 XCC = 18 races for the top riders. It's not a lot really, is it? I don't want to see a CX style World Cup with too many rounds, but you'd think at least 12 should be possible.
> And something that needs addressing - the lack of non cycling sponsors. Segafredo sponsor the Trek roads teams; why aren't they sponsoring the Trek MTB teams? If we see more 'outside' sponsors, then it may well be worth it.


Nine races is a lot. Remember, there are other series and other events that happen throughout the year. At a minimum riders are doing worlds, nationals, continentals, stage races, plus any games that happening that year (commonweath, panamican, olympics, ect...).

Start increasing the number of the WCs and people are just going to skip rounds. We saw that this year in CX.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Any chance Rob and Bart will remain at the new broadcast?!


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## EdWiser (Feb 3, 2021)

GCN has upped the number of pro road races this year. Same with CX races this pass year. I look for more MTB races added too. I watch racing all the time year around now just not the big races like in the past.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> This is terrible news. Red Bull defined the standard by which every other coverage is measured. Even if they do the coverage "as well as", now I have to pay for it.
> 
> I follow a lot of motorcycle and auto racing and they have been doing this for years. There's a lot of racing I just don't watch any more.


I also think it’s terrible. I’m sure some people on this site will pay…but some won’t. More importantly almost no one who isn’t a cyclist is paying for GCN. I fell in love withXCO precisely bc it was free and on Red Bull. I turned it on to, likely, watch a ski video…maybe moto…I dunno…but I would have never tuned in if it was “pay for” content. (Oddly, I discovered the band AWOL Nation bc they were on Red Bull TV).

i don’t care if anyone takes up mtb…we got enough of those😉😁😉. But I’m all for more sponsors, more $$$$, and the riders getting paid more. I don’t see how that will ever happen with “pay for“ content.

Maybe I’m wrong. I heard the UFC is doing great. I do know that I haven’t seen a fight since they moved to PPV model on ESPN+.🤷🏻‍♂️


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I mean i hated, Hated the redbull user interface. But other than that it was brilliant, so am very sad that it has been moved.
I'll probably pay, as I love my XC watching... but I don't think it will do anything good for the sport.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Rob had better be there...

All hail the egg.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> Oddly, I discovered the band AWOL Nation bc they were on Red Bull TV


I've Been Dreaming and Angel Miners are the first two albums on my riding playlist.
Good for 160bpm climbing...


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

such a pity I was looking forward to watching the XCO & DH..... another paywall ffs


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

For me, it's not a huge deal, since I already have it for watching other bike racing/documentaries. For those who have never used it, GCN does do a pretty good job. It is a disappointment that it's not completely free anymore though, that's a bummer. But times change...


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Hopefully GCN will expand the coverage to the U23's.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

uintah said:


> Hopefully GCN will expand the coverage to the U23's.


Yes, I've been wanting this for a long time. I loved the Red Bull coverage, but I'm hoping it only gets better and better going forward. I already subscribe to GCN+ so thankfully I'm ok with this news. I'm very picky about what I pay for, and the amount of racing coverage I get to watch for the money GCN+ costs is an incredible value IMO. But I love watching just about all disciplines of bike racing, so it's not a hard sale for me.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I notice the DH is listed in the events on redbull tv but no XCO?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Quote from the article, *"Meanwhile, all rounds of the 2022 Mercedes-Benz UCI World Cup will be available for viewing on Red Bull TV (RBTV) and on the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup broadcasters’ channels. "*

Feeling a bit slow in the head. Does this mean that they will be aired on RB, just not produced???


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

The new deal is starting 2023


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

_edu_ said:


> The new deal is starting 2023


Ahh..... missed that part. Thank you


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

cycloholic said:


> Any chance Rob and Bart will remain at the new broadcast?!


Any XCO coverage I have seen without them is almost unbearable to watch. 

I don’t need some British guy whispering to me through a microphone, and an Eastern European retired racer I can’t understand.

I need Bart telling me how “boompy” the track is! 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

FJSnoozer said:


> Any XCO coverage I have seen without them is almost unbearable to watch.
> 
> I don’t need some British guy whispering to me through a microphone, and an Eastern European retired racer I can’t understand.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately I think Redbull are a bit too invested in Rob to let him go easily. There's plenty of content featuring him and not all of it is MTB related.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

FJSnoozer said:


> Any XCO coverage I have seen without them is almost unbearable to watch.
> 
> I don’t need some British guy whispering to me through a microphone, and an Eastern European retired racer I can’t understand.
> 
> ...


The Olympic XCO race was painful to listen to. If I recall, they had commentators that I recognized from road races (and like their commentary there), but they clearly didn't do their homework for MTB. They were mispronouncing names left and right that would've been obvious had they watched a single other XCO race in preparation.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Some more eye candy...









Bicis de los pro: Wilier Urta SLR de Wout Alleman


La Wilier Urta SLR del campeón de Bélgica, Wout Alleman, al detalle. Este año Wilier va a estar más presente que nunca en competición con el equipo Wilier Pirelli.




esmtb.com


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> The Olympic XCO race was painful to listen to. If I recall, they had commentators that I recognized from road races (and like their commentary there), but they clearly didn't do their homework for MTB. They were mispronouncing names left and right that would've been obvious had they watched a single other XCO race in preparation.


Even Lance mispronounced Nino. 

Totally disrespectful, or he is doing it on purpose, or just an old jock. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

smartyiak said:


> I also think it’s terrible. I’m sure some people on this site will pay…but some won’t. More importantly almost no one who isn’t a cyclist is paying for GCN. I fell in love withXCO precisely bc it was free and on Red Bull. I turned it on to, likely, watch a ski video…maybe moto…I dunno…but I would have never tuned in if it was “pay for” content. (Oddly, I discovered the band AWOL Nation bc they were on Red Bull TV).
> 
> i don’t care if anyone takes up mtb…we got enough of those. But I’m all for more sponsors, more $$$$, and the riders getting paid more. I don’t see how that will ever happen with “pay for“ content.
> 
> Maybe I’m wrong. I heard the UFC is doing great. I do know that I haven’t seen a fight since they moved to PPV model on ESPN+.


As much as I enjoy watching XCO on Redbull I doubt I’d pay a lot for it. Sadly this cannot be good for the sport. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

well the decision is taken so the only thing to do now is enjoy the final RedBull covered season and hope for the best


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

In general I think it’s bad for the smaller niche sports to not have a free to air option for viewers.  Apparently Discovery Sports (who own the GCN, GMBN, EMBN etc youtube channels) have already been broadcasting the EWS mountain biking for a while, as a free stream on youtube via GMBN:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/discovery-to-broadcast-world-cup-coverage-from-2023.html



It’s likely the XC races will be part of the GCN+ paid service. GCN have very close links with Eurosport. In the UK highlights of races shown on Eurosport (such as the Giro d’Italia) have been rebroadcast on the Quest freeview channel free to air (commentated by the GCN presenters) so maybe it will have something like that here.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It will be interesting to see how the EWS progresses, as it takes place over a much greater area, similar to rallying. Maybe greater resources enables live coverage, which will be pay per view. 
One thing not mentioned I don't think - at the moment you can watch the cycling on either GCN+, or Eurosport/ Eurosport Player which gives access to other sports. I have the latter. 

Whilst I'm disappointed by the news, as RB have given us great coverage, it has to be said that MTB racing, particularly here in the UK is very much in the shade of Road, CX, and Track in terms of media coverage. Even with multiple DH Champions, and current Olympic & World XCO Champions......

Non World Cup race coverage is hit & miss; look at the race just gone in Spain.....it wasn't the best, especially in 2022. Other race series don't even have live coverage. It's not a surprise there's a lack of money/sponsors in the sport.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

We've been following some of the road racing going on right now.... I sure hope that GCN has a better counter to Rob Warner than this guy. This is painful to listen to.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

jrob300 said:


> We've been following some of the road racing going on right now.... I sure hope that GCN has a better counter to Rob Warner than this guy. This is painful to listen to.


He comments on races for 2.5+ hours a day, 5 days a week. He keeps commentary more 'level' on purpose. It is a much different thing than a 1.5 hour race six times a year. It's similar to the difference between a baseball announcer in August commentating on a team 15 games out of the playoff hunt, and a football commentator in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. Cyclocross would be the middle ground and GCN does a nice job there. They have professional commentators, they will adapt and learn. I'm not saying I'm on board with this as a good thing for the sport, but I bet for those of us who pay for GCN, we won't be disappointed (sans the possible loss of Rob W).


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

euro-trash said:


> He comments on races for 2.5+ hours a day, 5 days a week. He keeps commentary more 'level' on purpose. It is a much different thing than a 1.5 hour race six times a year. It's similar to the difference between a baseball announcer in August commentating on a team 15 games out of the playoff hunt, and a football commentator in the fourth quarter of a playoff game. Cyclocross would be the middle ground and GCN does a nice job there. They have professional commentators, they will adapt and learn. I'm not saying I'm on board with this as a good thing for the sport, but I bet for those of us who pay for GCN, we won't be disappointed (sans the possible loss of Rob W).


Exactly. This is road cycling, not downhill MTB. I've been watching road racing for over 15 years and watch pretty much every race that's broadcast on GCN+. Carlton Kirby is an iconic commentator in the sport. I guess I'm used to him because I watched this highlight yesterday and didn't even think about it. A short voiceover for a highlight reel is very different than a live broadcast.

My biggest fuss with GCN+ is the app. I use mobile, tablet, and Firestick apps and they all have separate but equally annoying problems. But you get a ton of racing content for the price so I've stuck with it.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Edited, I had the wrong commentator... Carlton is polarizing.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)




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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Sympathies to Yana Belomoina as she and many others worry about their families back in Ukraine.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CaWp1cYoi23/

Update: I see that the UCI has banned Russia AND Belarus from competition, good call.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CakuNYfr7_E/


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

PFP teaming up with Robyn de Groot for the Cape epic.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Skarhead said:


> PFP teaming up with Robyn de Groot for the Cape epic.


Will this be like an endurance training camp for PFP? I suspect she's the strongest member of this team?


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Skarhead said:


> PFP teaming up with Robyn de Groot for the Cape epic.


Are Sina Frei and Laura Stiger teaming up again this year for Cape Epic? They seemed almost invincible last year. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Will this be like an endurance training camp for PFP? I suspect she's the strongest member of this team?


Not pretending that I have any clue of what it's like to be a top world-ranked rider, but with these types of events, there are a lot of ways to play it out in terms of how competitive they want to be, and also how they are dividing up time on the front of their pairing since there are a lot of sections that would cumulatively put more burden on the front rider. PFP could play it chill from a training perspective by letting de Groot take equal time on the front or else in how they try to place relative to the competition. Over the years I've seen the results show a lot of top riders who go to Cape Epic to be competitive, but other top riders who are clearly just there for some steady saddle time and aren't pushing things at the sharp end.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Will this be like an endurance training camp for PFP? I suspect she's the strongest member of this team?


Long races are different. 

Training for world cups involves improving the glycolytic energy system (2 minutes power and less), which has a negative effect on threshold power. Someone who is focused on longer stage races might get their teeth kicked in at a world cup but is actually better at the sustained threshold efforts of stage mountain bike racing.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

LMN said:


> Someone who is focused on longer stage races might get their teeth kicked in at a world cup but is actually better at the sustained threshold efforts of stage mountain bike racing.


I’d agree in general, however we’ve seen Annika Langvad dominate both at the Cape Epic then go on and dominate in the XC short track. Nino’s best World Cup season was preceded by a Cape Epic win. I think you can come into the Cape Epic on good endurance form then sharpen up XC demands into the World Cup season.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

MI-XC said:


> I’d agree in general, however we’ve seen Annika Langvad dominate both at the Cape Epic then go on and dominate in the XC short track. Nino’s best World Cup season was preceded by a Cape Epic win. I think you can come into the Cape Epic on good endurance form then sharpen up XC demands into the World Cup season.


The curveball is World Cup season begins shortly after the Cape Epic. Is there enough time to recover?


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Santa Cruz team Keegan Swenson and Maxime Marotte for the cape epic.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Will be fun to see how Keegan stacks up against an international field. Seems like he's prioritizing endurance events now and that Old Pueblo fitness can't hurt anything.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I saw the post on Maxime Marrote Insta yesterday, but I thought it was speculation only. Keegan has the engine and Maxime is like a diesel in XCO. Honestly, I think they can win a stage, but the field is stacked!!!

But I would bet $100 on them if MvDP and Sam Gaze would team up!!! On normal conditions obviously and no injuries.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

So Chris Blevins will be racing the mens elite category at the provincial XCO in Paarl tomorrow.probably using it as a leg losener with cape epic team mate Matt Beers


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> I saw the post on Maxime Marrote Insta yesterday, but I thought it was speculation only. Keegan has the engine and Maxime is like a diesel in XCO. Honestly, I think they can win a stage, but the field is stacked!!!
> 
> But I would bet $100 on them if MvDP and Sam Gaze would team up!!! On normal conditions obviously and no injuries.


Swenson had it on his Instagram also, showing the bike he’ll be using. The strange thing is, the cape epic website has a list of all the riders, and Swenson and Marotte are not on the list. Maybe they just haven’t completed all the paperwork yet. 

I’d definitely love to see those two race. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

celswick said:


> Swenson had it on his Instagram also, showing the bike he’ll be using. The strange thing is, the cape epic website has a list of all the riders, and Swenson and Marotte are not on the list. Maybe they just haven’t completed all the paperwork yet.
> 
> I’d definitely love to see those two race.
> 
> ...


The cape epic just hasn’t updated their rider list yet. It will only really be complete on Saturday after registrations are completed


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Chris rode really well at the Rheebokskloof XCO, clearly within himself and he’s got a strong partner in Matt Beers.
AlanHatherly wasn’t there to provide comparison. Didn’t have time for much chat and photos as he was warming up when I finished my race.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Cape Epic start list




__





2022 Race Register | Absa Cape Epic


This is who you'll be up against in the Absa Cape Epic. Check out the race register, today!




www.cape-epic.com


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Kate Courtney and Nino Schurter have both extended with Scott-SRAM through 2024. Guess that answers questions on how much longer Nino will be racing (at minimum). Would love to see him finally tie or claim Absalon's WC win record.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Kate Courtney and Nino Schurter have both extended with Scott-SRAM through 2024. Guess that answers questions on how much longer Nino will be racing (at minimum). Would love to see him finally tie or claim Absalon's WC win record.


wow kind of surprised on Courtney.
Good for her.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

peabody said:


> wow kind of surprised on Courtney.
> Good for her.


I can't wait to see how she does in the World Cups this year. Seems like she's off to a great start winning all her early-season races so far.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I’d love to see her return to the front but I fear that time has passed. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Kate Courtney and Nino Schurter have both extended with Scott-SRAM through 2024. Guess that answers questions on how much longer Nino will be racing (at minimum). Would love to see him finally tie or claim Absalon's WC win record.


Extending his contract is no guarantee of wins. At best he’s going to hope for a great day when younger talent is having an off day


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Brad said:


> Extending his contract is no guarantee of wins. At best he’s going to hope for a great day when younger talent is having an off day


He did manage to become world champion 7 months ago, so I think he can still win races, just look at Valverde or Cavendish in road cycling. I don't see him winning overall world cups but a couple of races per year should be possible if he stays motivated, he could also stay competitive in the longer xcm events like Cape epic, that is also good advertising for Scott.

I am actually more surprised about Kate renewing her contract, I don't know her but with the image she is portraying on Instagram she seems to have struggled with motivation the last seasons. I hope I am wrong though, the races are better if more different racers can win them.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Brad said:


> Extending his contract is no guarantee of wins. At best he’s going to hope for a great day when younger talent is having an off day


I never implied that. Would just like to see it.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Skier78 said:


> He did manage to become world champion 7 months ago, so I think he can still win races, just look at Valverde or Cavendish in road cycling. I don't see him winning overall world cups but a couple of races per year should be possible if he stays motivated, he could also stay competitive in the longer xcm events like Cape epic, that is also good advertising for Scott.
> 
> I am actually more surprised about Kate renewing her contract, I don't know her but with the image she is portraying on Instagram she seems to have struggled with motivation the last seasons. I hope I am wrong though, the races are better if more different racers can win them.


I would never read into Instagram too heavily. All professional athletes are encouraged to be influencers these days, and that can result in posts that aren't a true reflection of where their biggest motivations are. If their numbers on social media weren't important to sponsors, I believe many athletes' profiles would look a lot different. Just my .02.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> I’d love to see her return to the front but I fear that time has passed.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Clearly she is capable. I fear that her coaching under team SRAM could not be as good for her as what she previously had (despite what a whoop says). That is all highly speculative on my side.

Fact is, we have no idea what is going on in the life of any of these riders let alone those we line up with on a weekly basis locally. Illnesses, small setbacks in training and small injuries are enough to spit you out of the top 10 in such a stacked women’s field. Past performance is not indicative of future. 

Not to mention being forced to ride a HEAVY bike as such a light rider. One pound is Damaging. Come in 1 lbs heavier in non watt producing muscle mass and a 1 pound heavier steed, and that hurts a little too at the pointy end. 

I don’t even follow Kate on Social, but she is a fighter who hates losing and not being at the top. You can tell she is not happy just being an influencer and getting paid for her smile. 

Id love to go back and read all of y’all’s posts regarding PFP pre surgery. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I would never read into Instagram too heavily. All professional athletes are encouraged to be influencers these days, and that can result in posts that aren't a true reflection of where their biggest motivations are. If their numbers on social media weren't important to sponsors, I believe many athletes' profiles would look a lot different. Just my .02.


I agree in general, but comparing what she posts and what other racers post I think there is a different tone in what she is writing. Luckily the best instagram does not win any races, so we will have to wait and see how the actual racing goes.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

FJSnoozer said:


> Clearly she is capable. I fear that her coaching under team SRAM could not be as good for her as what she previously had (despite what a whoop says). That is all highly speculative on my side.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


When did she change coaches? Highly speculative is accurate.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Kate still trains under Jim Miller.

About her bike's weight, I talked to Brad Copeland about it, and even that is an issue, it's manageable.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Kate takes a lot of undeserving flack.

2018 WC
2019 World cup overall, 3 WC wins.
2020 Write off season
2021
-First world cup on the podium.
-2nd world cup, breaks her arm well riding quite well and then with a broken arm does top 10 lap times on a wildly technical course.
Unfortunately something what wrong with her training while recovering from the broken arm and she struggled for the rest of the season.

In my opinion it is far too early to write her off.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Semi related. Just "road racing" I know.... but where there's smoke there's fire.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-a-surprise-addition-to-milan-san-remo-roster/


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

LMN said:


> Kate takes a lot of undeserving flack.
> 
> 2018 WC
> 2019 World cup overall, 3 WC wins.
> ...


I was about to post the exact same thing. She gets way more hate than anyone else, and undeservedly so in my mind.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cal_len1 said:


> I was about to post the exact same thing. She gets way more hate than anyone else, and undeservedly so in my mind.


It is an interesting example of sexism. Lots of male riders result's are all over the place. They don't face any flack.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> But I would bet $100 on them if MvDP and Sam Gaze would team up!!! On normal conditions obviously and no injuries.


Sam is having surgery on both knees...


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

uintah said:


> When did she change coaches? Highly speculative is accurate.


That’s really all you took away from this post?

She has changed strategies and openly talked about it on podcasts. Do you see her training with Annika and have the influence she did as she was coming into the greatest form of her life. 

Whether it’s the same guy coaching her since specialized, the overall strategy is not the same. 

You win a cookie if you can show me her entire coaching staff is the same. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> It is an interesting example of sexism.


I'm not sure this is fair. Kate is Kate. She really likes (or appears to like) to be in the limelight and that puts a target on you (maybe a better way to say this is: raises people's expectations). Gender notwithstanding.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> I'm not sure this is fair. Kate is Kate. She really likes (or appears to like) to be in the limelight and that puts a target on you (maybe a better way to say this is: raises people's expectations). Gender notwithstanding.


Is it? Name a male cyclist who faces the critisim that Kate, or Batty, or Pauiline face.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> That’s really all you took away from this post?
> 
> She has changed strategies and openly talked about it on podcasts. Do you see her training with Annika and have the influence she did as she was coming into the greatest form of her life.
> 
> ...


You might owe a cookie.

I am relatively in the know and Kate's support team from 2018-2021 was pretty constant.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> Semi related. Just "road racing" I know.... but where there's smoke there's fire.
> 
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-a-surprise-addition-to-milan-san-remo-roster/


You just made my week.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> I'm not sure this is fair. Kate is Kate. She really likes (or appears to like) to be in the limelight and that puts a target on you (maybe a better way to say this is: raises people's expectations). Gender notwithstanding.


I don't necessarily see her as someone who _enjoys_ the spotlight as if she's always seeking it. She's pretty, she's often at the front of the race, and she speaks well on camera. I work behind a camera for a living and those three things will get you constant requests for interviews and video work. Few people check all of those boxes like she does. The cameras come to her; I don't necessarily see it the other way around.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> Is it? Name a male cyclist who faces the critisim that Kate, or Batty, or Pauiline face.


I think a few.... and I would bet for the same reason. You put yourself out there and you become a target. Nino for one has gotten his share of grief for non-performance... MVDP took a ton of flack here last year for his crash at the Olympics. Jaroslav was under constant pressure of expectations before he retired. I really don't think it's different. But I am on the outside looking in. Just my .02. 

I'm sure you get an entirely different take on this subject from across the breakfast table.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I don't necessarily see her as someone who _enjoys_ the spotlight as if she's always seeking it. She's pretty, she's often at the front of the race, and she speaks well on camera. I work behind a camera for a living and those three things will get you constant requests for interviews and video work. Few people check all of those boxes like she does. The cameras come to her; I don't necessarily see it the other way around.


Interesting perspective. It is also possible that her sponsors put extremely high demands on her with regard to branding. I hadn't considered that part....


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Jaroslav was under constant pressure of expectations before he retired.


People still complain about his riding position.
He's still racing. He's still using the same position


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> It is an interesting example of sexism. Lots of male riders result's are all over the place. They don't face any flack.


You make a good point.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> Semi related. Just "road racing" I know.... but where there's smoke there's fire.
> 
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mathieu-van-der-poel-a-surprise-addition-to-milan-san-remo-roster/


300km in a race situation will do him good; first road race since early October at Roubaix (when he wasn't 100%). Nothing about a MTB has been mentioned, as yet.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I don't necessarily see her as someone who _enjoys_ the spotlight as if she's always seeking it. She's pretty, she's often at the front of the race, and she speaks well on camera. I work behind a camera for a living and those three things will get you constant requests for interviews and video work. Few people check all of those boxes like she does. The cameras come to her; I don't necessarily see it the other way around.


She posts on Instagram all the time...that may be part of the job for an elite athlete now but it's also "seeking" the spotlight.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

FJSnoozer said:


> That’s really all you took away from this post?
> 
> She has changed strategies and openly talked about it on podcasts. Do you see her training with Annika and have the influence she did as she was coming into the greatest form of her life.
> 
> ...


I prefer chocolate chip. And yes I know Jim Miller pretty well and Kate socially. You shouldn't talk on things you don't know about.


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## 141 (Jun 25, 2021)

I was reading Nils van der Poel's PDF on his approach to training and thought this section was relevant perhaps to the discussion about Kate's training:

"Some pro athletes say that, since they are professionals and can train as much as they like,
they might as well add some weight training, and some stretching, and some core, and some
technical sessions, and some training competitions, and some coordination sessions... All
training sessions are performed at the expense of other, more efficient, training sessions, or
at the expense of recovery after these sessions. My point isn’t that stretching is useless. If
you need to stretch then go ahead and bend over. But do not fool yourself; do not drop hours
from the essential sessions in order to perform something that sounds cool or is easy. Yeah,
the gym is warm and nice, mirrors everywhere so that you can see your pretty face and
attractive muscles. But you're more likely 50 watts of the required bike threshold to make it
below 12.00,00, than you are 50kg in squats from it. I completely cut what I thought were the
sub-optimal sessions in order to increase the optimal ones. But, as I’m looking back upon it
all, 5 minutes of core and stretching weekly would have been a smart way of staying clear of
injury. Those “prehab” sessions I believe should be approached with an attitude of “how little
of this is enough?” in order not to get injured nor steal time and effort from the essential
sessions. During winter I skated a lot more competition speed laps than any other long
distance speed skater, but I did a lot less of any other high intensity training than all the
others."

I know it has been mentioned in this thread that Kate trains more on the bike than just about anybody else, so it doesn't seem like she dropped hours from cycling. But I do wonder if perhaps all the gym work affects her recovery? And perhaps that has been a change from when she was more unknown? I can imagine perhaps starting out Kate was doing say 3 hours gym + 25 hours bike, and then after the success she has had and being able to afford a home gym and personal trainer, now doing 10 hours gym + 25 hours bike?


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Without knowing specifics of Kate's gym sessions, it's hard to say. The devil is in the details. Even van der Poel says doing some work to prevent injuries is not a bad thing as long as you just do the minimum you need. Evie and Loana also do gym sessions and they have been killing it. And there was a meta-analysis that showed that endurance athletes generally benefit from very specific types of gym work (high weight, low rep, lots of rest in between so the work is mostly alactic rather than lactic).


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

141 said:


> I imagine perhaps starting out Kate was doing say 3 hours gym + 25 hours bike, and then after the success she has had and being able to afford a home gym and personal trainer, now doing 10 hours gym + 25 hours bike?


Kate's own words. 
"I would say my lowest weeks are 15 to 17 hours on the bike and my biggest weeks are 25 to 30 hours, but those are rarer. I consider strength training part of my fitness training and I spend anywhere from two to five hours a week in the gym."


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> 300km in a race situation will do him good; first road race since early October at Roubaix (when he wasn't 100%). Nothing about a MTB has been mentioned, as yet.


Yeah... still no comment on MTB racing that I could find. But a solid 3rd at Milan-San Remo today is a great start to a season after an injury such as his. Just hope he rides the right side of that line....

https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/milan-san-remo-2022/elite-men/results/


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

uintah said:


> Kate's own words.
> "I would say my lowest weeks are 15 to 17 hours on the bike and my biggest weeks are 25 to 30 hours, but those are rarer. I consider strength training part of my fitness training and I spend anywhere from two to five hours a week in the gym."


I'd say that three strength/core 30 minute sessions per week would be way more than enough for an endurance athlete if your workout routine is smart. During race blocks cut back to one or two sessions per week. If done correctly, it doesn't take much to build functional strength.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> I'd say that three strength/core 30 minute sessions per week would be way more than enough for an endurance athlete if your workout routine is smart. During race blocks cut back to one or two sessions per week. If done correctly, it doesn't take much to build functional strength.


She's active on social media. Message her and tell her what she's doing wrong.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Pauline didn't take it easy in the prologue at Cape Epic...taking the win with Robin. Blevins and Beers took the win for the men. Nino had a mechanical and lost a bunch of time.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Pauline didn't take it easy in the prologue at Cape Epic...taking the win with Robin. Blevins and Beers took the win for the men. Nino had a mechanical and lost a bunch of time.


Robin was quite surprised with her form. She’s in. Really good spirit for the stage 1 today which is super hard. There are no free miles today. It’s either steep up or down and the terrain is going to kill Nino’s Aspen ST rear tyre. I don’t understand why they chose that tyre. I have ridden todays stage and it is really really hard. Hands ans forearms are going to need attention tonight on the massage table. Calf muscles are going to be rock hard. New brake pads and rotors fitted overnight for most of the top teams.
Canyon has some new stuff on their bikes. Will try to get some close ups when I get out to the race later in the week.
Chris is looking comfortable. He put some hurt on Matt yesterday. I suspect today will be similar as the gradient and does not play to Matts strengths


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Another rear puncture for Nino today...bad luck or maybe he needs a more durable rear tire?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Another rear puncture for Nino today...bad luck or maybe he needs a more durable rear tire?


Definitely needs to reconsider his tyre choice. 
lots of punctures today. The lady riding the bulls camera bike following the ladies race is a good friend of mine. She’s reported back that nearly all the ladies teams had a puncturetoday but most was dealt with by the sealant. Ninos tyre had a 2cm cut that required a gator to fix. He swapped rear wheels with Andri and left them to sort it out lol


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

If it keeps happening, then it stops being bad luck; however they know what they're doing so they've obviously decided it's worth the risk. However, they're 5 mins down and can't afford another one as that will take them out of contention.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

This is turning into a great race (of attrition)!!! Love the results of the Santa Cruz duo...I gave them a chance to win a stage but they are proving stronger than I thought.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Brad said:


> Definitely needs to reconsider his tyre choice.
> lots of punctures today. The lady riding the bulls camera bike following the ladies race is a good friend of mine. She’s reported back that nearly all the ladies teams had a puncturetoday but most was dealt with by the sealant. Ninos tyre had a 2cm cut that required a gator to fix. He swapped rear wheels with Andri and left them to sort it out lol


I believe I saw on Instagram that Keegan is running Aspens as well. I was very surprised to see that. I honestly don't understand how XC pros get away with Aspens or other similar tires on any WC course (and especially something like Cape Epic) but their abilities are obviously far beyond my own and I guess they prioritize rolling speed above all else.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I believe I saw on Instagram that Keegan is running Aspens as well. I was very surprised to see that. I honestly don't understand how XC pros get away with Aspens or other similar tires on any WC course (and especially something like Cape Epic) but their abilities are obviously far beyond my own and I guess they prioritize rolling speed above all else.


Aspens actually have decent grip and WC pros are really good at finding traction.

As for durability there are several aspens to choose from. The ones that a consumer buys are pretty darn durable, the 170tpi pro only ones are super fragile.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> I'd say that three strength/core 30 minute sessions per week would be way more than enough for an endurance athlete if your workout routine is smart. During race blocks cut back to one or two sessions per week. If done correctly, it doesn't take much to build functional strength.


Nino does more gym work than any one. Why don’t you critique his training program?


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

LMN said:


> As for durability there are several aspens to choose from. The ones that a consumer buys are pretty darn durable, the 170tpi pro only ones are super fragile.


Supposedly Nino is running the 120 tpi for the Cape Epic. I'm in the "hate Aspens" camp and I'll never understand that tire. Apparently Nino flatted going uphill, how does that happen?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MI-XC said:


> Apparently Nino flatted going uphill, how does that happen?


Going really fast?


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

NordieBoy said:


> Going really fast?


Apparently he mentioned he went over some glass hidden/covered by grass.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

On the interview after the race, he said he ran over something sharp in the grass. He said another rider flatted in the same spot. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

celswick said:


> On the interview after the race, he said he ran over something sharp in the grass. He said another rider flatted in the same spot.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


that climb has a lot of sharp stones littered on the surface. The land owners through shale stone down as it bits into the ground when they driver their tractors and 4x4s up the slopes. Those stones get pushed aside into the grass and triticale that grows as ground cover and it's not easy to see the sharp edges in the grass. also those stones are not crushed as the vehicles don't drive over them to crush the stone. So anything off the track is a risk It could also be barbed or razor wire often used to line sections of orchard or vinyard to keep baboons out


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Quick race day wrap up:
er monster with a 10hr cut off for the amateurs. we lost 5% of the teams thus far so another 5% is likely to be gone after tomorrow too.
Marotte and Swenson: Great ride by the Santa Cruz boys. No fuss, no drama. They're still in the race. They have been riding smooth and considered. Definitely dark horses

Pauline and Robin: Pauline had a bad day probably due to going too deep yesterday. They're only 10min down nd Pauline is super competitive.She'll recover so I'll be keeping a close eye on them from Wednesday when rain is a possibilty in Greyton.
Haley and Sofia: rode a smart race today, as smart as Arianne and Amy. If not for the side wall cut Symbtech experienced (Arianne) they would have won the stage easily. There's more to come from this battle. Stage 2 will suit Amy and Arianne particularly. My money's on them tomorrow.

Faces: Mariske and Candice are going well, definitely playing the long game. I expect them to make a move once we head back to Stellenbosch as they have been training on those trails extensively. Home advantage will come through if they maintain form.

There's been a few Covid positive cases so lets see how they go the rest of the week.
Crazy hot here 39 degrees today tomorrow 34


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MI-XC said:


> Apparently he mentioned he went over some glass hidden/covered by grass.


While going really fast...


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Scott-sram had 2 holes in their tyres again, all seemed to be on tyre wall


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> While going really fast...


was going uphill so around 15-18km/hr on that section


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Looks like Blevins is going to be a problem this season...

Somebody please call Maxxis about them tires!!!


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Scott-sram uses "regular" 120tpi exo tyres on cape epic, from my experience these have pretty tough sidewalls, but 4 holes for the team in 3 stages seems little bit more than "bad luck".

Pretty brutal 6.5h stage for womens


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Nino had another puncture today, again sidewall. I think they're just running too low pressure for the conditions. Not sure why they're struggling to adapt or respond to the challenge. They're over 8min back with nothing to lose with a Rekon Race or Ikon


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

I know it has been mentioned in this thread that Kate trains more on the bike than just about anybody else, so it doesn't seem like she dropped hours from cycling. But I do wonder if perhaps all the gym work affects her recovery? And perhaps that has been a change from when she was more unknown? I can imagine perhaps starting out Kate was doing say 3 hours gym + 25 hours bike, and then after the success she has had and being able to afford a home gym and personal trainer, now doing 10 hours gym + 25 hours bike?
[/QUOTE]

Speed skating is different than cycling. To skate a 30 second lap requires an incredible amount of leg strength. At 30 mph, In the corners you are basically doing a 2x body weight single leg pistol squat on a unstable surface. That’s probably somewhere equivalent in load to 3x body weight squat! And skating has a huge amount of eccentric loading where cycling had none. 

You can get away with no strength training in speed skating because just speed skating is so draining. Many speed skaters lift heavy, but not all at the top of the sport. 

Cyclists need to spend time in the gym in a way that speed skaters don’t. Cycling is a low load sport with no eccentric movements and no need for lateral muscle control/stability. To keep your body healthy inc cycling strength is worth it. 

Also: the first year of strength training it is super fatiguing. As you adapt and learn to not over do it in the gym, a strength session becomes a easy/moderate session that barely impacts distance training. IMO Kate and her coach know what they are doing.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

xcskier66 said:


> I know it has been mentioned in this thread that Kate trains more on the bike than just about anybody else, so it doesn't seem like she dropped hours from cycling. But I do wonder if perhaps all the gym work affects her recovery? And perhaps that has been a change from when she was more unknown? I can imagine perhaps starting out Kate was doing say 3 hours gym + 25 hours bike, and then after the success she has had and being able to afford a home gym and personal trainer, now doing 10 hours gym + 25 hours bike?


Speed skating is different than cycling. To skate a 30 second lap requires an incredible amount of leg strength. At 30 mph, In the corners you are basically doing a 2x body weight single leg pistol squat on a unstable surface. That’s probably somewhere equivalent in load to 3x body weight squat! And skating has a huge amount of eccentric loading where cycling had none. 

You can get away with no strength training in speed skating because just speed skating is so draining. Many speed skaters lift heavy, but not all at the top of the sport. 

Cyclists need to spend time in the gym in a way that speed skaters don’t. Cycling is a low load sport with no eccentric movements and no need for lateral muscle control/stability. To keep your body healthy inc cycling strength is worth it. 

Also: the first year of strength training it is super fatiguing. As you adapt and learn to not over do it in the gym, a strength session becomes a easy/moderate session that barely impacts distance training. The minimum effective strength trainig dose for endurance athletes is lower than most people think. IMO Kate and her coach know what they are doing.
[/QUOTE]


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Brad said:


> Nino had another puncture today, again sidewall. I think they're just running too low pressure for the conditions. Not sure why they're struggling to adapt or respond to the challenge. They're over 8min back with nothing to lose with a Rekon Race or Ikon


perhaps Scott are using wider rims than the others on Maxxis tires?
wide rims leave the sidewalls more exposed


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

ccm said:


> perhaps Scott are using wider rims than the others on Maxxis tires?
> wide rims leave the sidewalls more exposed


The rim they are using is 30mm internal width pero Syncros website. Almost the same as a bunch of teams in the Top 10 using Roval, Reserve, DT Swiss, Duke, etc. Scott-Calabandida is using Mavic and those are 25mm internal.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> Nino had another puncture today, again sidewall. I think they're just running too low pressure for the conditions. Not sure why they're struggling to adapt or respond to the challenge. They're over 8min back with nothing to lose with a Rekon Race or Ikon


And they were about a minute up the road when it happened; and they've gained next to no time back on the leaders. No good being super strong if they keep getting punctures, and all the good work goes to nothing.


Agree with an earlier post, Blevins looks super strong.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Both Scott teams at cape epic use Aspen ST as a rear tire, today again both teams have punctures, they really need change this stupid gravel tire.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Wish they make ST available to public, it's been seen for a few years now

Nino's flat on prologue was actually broken spoke which teared tubeless tape


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

LMN said:


> Nino does more gym work than any one. Why don’t you critique his training program?


Everyone is different fam. Love a good Argument ad Nino though.

Nino is comparatively smaller than Kate against his competitors and probably has comparitively higher natural aerobic power. And hes older. I cant refute your suggestion but also doubt its relevance.

Her most dangerous competitors are dimunitive w/kg machines. Maybe the strength training isnt necessary. Maybe, as some studies show, it mitigates aerobic development. Maybe she should ride less with friends and fiance. Who knows. But whatever shes currently doing doesnt seem to be bringing her the same level of success she's had in the past. And that should be open for analysis without all the defensive snark. Alot of the 'hate' comes from the fact that nobody navel gazes like kate and emily. Derision and scrutiny come with the territory when you dance with Narcissus. Theyre pros in one of the hardest sports in the world. They should be able handle some negative public opinion without her fans deploying rhetoric to defend them.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> Everyone is different fam. Love a good Argument ad Nino though.
> 
> Nino is comparatively smaller than Kate against his competitors and probably has comparitively higher natural aerobic power. And hes older. I cant refute your suggestion but also doubt its relevance.
> 
> Her most dangerous competitors are dimunitive w/kg machines. Maybe the strength training isnt necessary. Maybe, as some studies show, it mitigates aerobic development. Maybe she should ride less with friends and fiance. Who knows. But whatever shes currently doing doesnt seem to be bringing her the same level of success she's had in the past. And that should be open for analysis without all the defensive snark. Alot of the 'hate' comes from the fact that nobody navel gazes like kate and emily. Derision and scrutiny come with the territory when you dance with Narcissus. Theyre pros in one of the hardest sports in the world. They should be able handle some negative public opinion without her fans deploying rhetoric to defend them.


The cold hard reality is successful women in sport have their failures celebrated and scrutinized in ways that their male counter parts do not. And to say this not true, is naive.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LMN said:


> The cold hard reality is successful women in sport have their failures celebrated and scrutinized in ways that their male counter parts do not. And to say this not true, is naive.


I appreciate you bringing this up LMN. Personally, I just find Kate's use of "For me, ..." super frustrating in interviews. But I've recorded myself giving research presentations, and I'll be damned if I don't say "like" way too much. So now I need to go and have a think about _why_ she frustrates me, since it's probably not because she's (so far) had a bit of an Icarus moment, and has a tick with interviews.

I also sometimes wonder if she developed "for me" because people on social media these days seem hopelessly unable to separate statements about objective things from opinions.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

LMN said:


> The cold hard reality is successful women in sport have their failures celebrated and scrutinized in ways that their male counter parts do not. And to say this not true, is naive.


so people simultaneously pay too little attention to women's cycling, but also too much. got it.

from my female girlfriend who identifies as a girl's mouth: "yolanda isn't in your face about training and isn't all 'build back better' all the time..._I dont think Kate needs to be vocal about her failures_"

and by your logic if you disagree with my gf you're sexist soo


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm sure there is sexism in society. I am not sure if it applies in this specific case with Kate wrt to her gym sessions. I think endurance athletes in general have sacred cows and one of those sacred cows is "thou shalt not lift." I recall Nino also got criticized for all his gym work a few years ago when his results started to decline. I also see this craziness in the running world. So it could be that, because Kate is so public with her gym sessions, it invites criticism from the enduranistas.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> so people simultaneously pay too little attention to women's cycling, but also too much. got it.
> 
> from my female girlfriend who identifies as a girl's mouth: "yolanda isn't in your face about training and isn't all 'build back better' all the time..._I dont think Kate needs to be vocal about her failures_"
> 
> and by your logic if you disagree with my gf you're sexist soo


Now you are stretching things. Take a second, slow down and think about it.

It is one thing to not like someone’s social media post (and btw I agree with your girl friend). It is another thing to take a look at their social media and tell them how they are training wrong. Which is what female athletes get all the time.

I have enough experience to know that I don’t have a clue as to why Kate didn’t ride near the front the second half of last season. But if I were to speculate I would say the gym had zero impact in her performance. (Unless she injured herself in the gym which does happen)


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

I watched the short interview with Blevins and Meers. They don’t seem to be gelling that well as team mates. Body language and how they don’t really show positive emotions towards each other.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Is there any video coverage of the Cape Epic anywhere? Daily highlights or recaps? Apologies if I'm living under a rock.


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## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Is there any video coverage of the Cape Epic anywhere? Daily highlights or recaps? Apologies if I'm living under a rock.


Yes Cape Epic has it's own You Tube channel and there are daily recaps, and actually every stage is broadcast live (like all 5.5 hours of Stage 2 is up)...it's really good footage actually.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Yes, the content on YouTube is great. I’ve been watching the live coverage and the commentators do a great job. The daily recaps are maybe even better, because they mix in a lot of great footage and camera angles that weren’t available during the live broadcast. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> The cold hard reality is successful women in sport have their failures celebrated and scrutinized in ways that their male counter parts do not. And to say this not true, is naive.


Shoot, I'll scrutinize men and women the same....I believe in equality. When MvdP or Nino screw up I have no problem pointing it out. I don't see why you're so defensive unless you perceive your female partner received undue criticism because of her gender.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Shoot, I'll scrutinize men and women the same....I believe in equality. When MvdP or Nino screw up I have no problem pointing it out. I don't see why you're so defensive unless you perceive your female partner received undue criticism because of her gender.


Having watched what my wife and every other female racer has had to deal with compared to their male racer, yeah I am defensive.

It is ironic that people think I am a Kate fan. Trust me, I am not. But she is a former WC champ and WC overall winner and I respect that. And I happen to know that her support team is as good as it gets. But being the best in the world is a bit of mystery.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

^totally off topic but would be curious re your thoughts on Lauren de Crescenzo and her success working with tommyD.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> ^totally off topic but would be curious re your thoughts on Lauren de Crescenzo and her success working with tommyD.


I am only sort of aware of that story. Not remotely enough to have any kind of informed opinion.

I know WC MTB really well but domestic gravel racing I haven’t followed at all.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> ^totally off topic but would be curious re your thoughts on Lauren de Crescenzo and her success working with tommyD.


Well, I just read up on that. Interesting story isn’t it.

First I think starting women with guys in a prize money paying high profile event isn’t exactly appropriate.

But in all Honestly, I don’t trust an athlete who is working with a former doper. Someone with that poor of judgement in who they let coach them might also have poor judgement on other things.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't think Nino shows very much strength training on instagram these days, mostly commercials for bike storage and breathing aids, but of course you cannot judge a persons training based on their instagram. More racers should do like Nils Van Der Poel instead and just publish their training diary for the last three years, that would be interesting  and of course cause even more speculation...

Personally I find it quite tiring that companies are still using the "sex sells" approach to female athletes instead of focusing on the athletes performance. There are different ways to sell things, one thing that really upset me (and my wife) was the welcome video that Scott-Sram did for Kate C.





Compare that to the farewell video that Specialized released at the same time:





Very different focus in those two videos, and both are supposed to sell bikes (I own 2 specialized and 0 Scott, but maybe not only because of these commercials)


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

celswick said:


> Yes, the content on YouTube is great. I’ve been watching the live coverage and the commentators do a great job. The daily recaps are maybe even better, because they mix in a lot of great footage and camera angles that weren’t available during the live broadcast.


The coverage is fabulous. When I worked during the day, I'd come home after work and watch it 'as Live'. 

Looks like Nino & Lars will need a miracle to win now being 14 mins down; after losing big time today. Lars did appear to be suffering the last few days, and it's finally cost him. Still interesting with any of the top 3 able to win if someone has a bad day. The women's looks slightly more predictable, with Specialized-Songo looking in control.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Maybe Kate Courtney just isn't as good as the other top gals? Lots of great singular seasons in the annals of MTB history. On the other hand, Neff had a couple of bad luck years but is back on top. I do think that blondes are faster and I hope that doesn't affect her this season


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I think fans are overthinking Kate's form but this is probably a good alternative perspective


chomxxo said:


> Maybe Kate Courtney just isn't as good as the other top gals? Lots of great singular seasons in the annals of MTB history. On the other hand, Neff had a couple of bad luck years but is back on top. I do think that blondes are faster and I hope that doesn't affect her this season



How good is she really in relation to PFP, JN, JRissveds, or even Annika?

She had one good season and acheived a lot and then fell back to a normalised position.
She may have been underperforming in 2021 but then we could say the same to Pauline.

Its more reasonable to assume that other ladies have stepped up their game while Kate took a slight dip.

On the social media side, the ladies have to work the social media much hader than than the men because they simply don't gat paid as much. The top riders might be on fairly equal pay to the men but then its likely on .ratio of 4:1 or 5:1 so for every 5 men that are earning top dollar only one female rider is. Many of the women hold down day jobs to fund their racing. Relative to her salary it could be argued that Kate is underperformed in 2021 (and 2020 but that was an odd year) but she may be paying the price for whatever happened in 2020. Do we know if she had covid during the past 2 years?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Back to the Cape Epic:
1. Another hard day...
2. Lars blew up as well as Maxime Marotte.
3. Seewald/Stosek are riding a smart race.
4. Scott - Cala out of the Top 10
5. IMO, only 4 teams have a shot at winning the race.
6. It's Haley and Sofia's race to loose.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Photo epic from Stage 2.









[FOTO REPORTAJE] El día más largo de la Absa Cape Epic y el triunfo de la constancia del Scott-SRAM


Un día muy largo, de 5 horas para los mejores, y un recorrido con un poco de todo. Pinchazos que marcan la carrera y un ajustado sprint final. Así ha sido la 2ª etapa de la Absa Cape Epic




esmtb.com


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Back to the Cape Epic:
> 1. Another hard day...
> 2. Lars blew up as well as Maxime Marotte.
> 3. Seewald/Stosek are riding a smart race.
> ...


I'm always curious about tire choice...does anyone know what version of tires the Specialized sponsored teams are running at Cape Epic...S-Works, Control, or Grid? I highly doubt they are running the supple and light S-Works version.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> Maybe Kate Courtney just isn't as good as the other top gals? Lots of great singular seasons in the annals of MTB history. On the other hand, Neff had a couple of bad luck years but is back on top. I do think that blondes are faster and I hope that doesn't affect her this season


Being the best in the world is incredibly hard, doing it again is much harder.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

chase2wheels said:


> I watched the short interview with Blevins and Meers. They don’t seem to be gelling that well as team mates. Body language and how they don’t really show positive emotions towards each other.


totally agree with you on this. Blevins looks like he’s frustrated a lot with Beers and would rather be riding with Swenson again. When their teams are together, they both (Blevins and Swenson) seem happier and work well together.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Brad said:


> I think fans are overthinking Kate's form but this is probably a good alternative perspective
> How good is she really in relation to PFP, JN, JRissveds, or even Annika?


Kate posted something last year after the season had ended "mistakes were made in my training. We have learned and know what to do going forward." I hope that's the case. I enjoy seeing a US racer at the pointy end of the WC. Last year it was great to watch Haley Batten's more consistent performance.

Hope to see Blevin's do well in the WC. The other good US racers are able to make their living in gravel / lifetime fitness and don't seem to be too interested in participating in the WCs.

The Cape Epic coverage is excellent, but seriously what is with Nino's tires? He probably would do better on an Aggressor at this point.



AndrewHardtail said:


> totally agree with you on this. Blevins looks like he’s frustrated a lot with Beers and would rather be riding with Swenson again. When their teams are together, they both (Blevins and Swenson) seem happier and work well together.



Where is this interview?


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Well, I just read up on that. Interesting story isn’t it.
> 
> First I think starting women with guys in a prize money paying high profile event isn’t exactly appropriate.
> 
> But in all Honestly, I don’t trust an athlete who is working with a former doper. Someone with that poor of judgement in who they let coach them might also have poor judgement on other things.


Then why doesn’t the Scott/SRAM team bother you?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Looks like they ditched the Aspen ST for stage 3, looks like a regular on the back now


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

peabody said:


> Then why doesn’t the Scott/SRAM team bother you?


Which alleged ex-doper are you referring to there?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I'm always curious about tire choice...does anyone know what version of tires the Specialized sponsored teams are running at Cape Epic...S-Works, Control, or Grid? I highly doubt they are running the supple and light S-Works version.


Grid


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Back to the Cape Epic:
> 1. Another hard day...
> 2. Lars blew up as well as Maxime Marotte.
> 3. Seewald/Stosek are riding a smart race.
> ...


1. Today was not so hard, a relatively easy course actually. Tomorrow is an easy day with on steep climb and onne long climb called the UFO climb. I used this climb to get myself into a podium postion during a 3 day stage race here 3yrs ago. For the pro's it may not be enough to animate the race unless someone is having a bad day then it will be brutal. Its singletracks with lots of tight turns and some kicks up to 20%.

2. Lars blow up was quite spectacular...There seems to be some issues in that team during this Epic. I think Lars is not feeling very well and nino is pushing him. Similar over at Toyota Specialized where Chris is proving to be in really very good form and Matt is struggling to hold his wheel. He's never been in this position before. He will find a way to deal with it, he's a strong and good character.

3. Totally agree, they paced themselves well today. I think they broke or dropped a cahin which dropped them out of the lead group. They didn't lose much time so no harm done to them. They also didn't panic or push too hard so they should have an easer time recovering for Saturday's last big stage. 

5. Thursday and Friday are easy stages so I expect the racing to be tactical. canyon will likely let Scott do the work and Specialized will have to make some sort of play too.
Speed Company and Canyon will likely work together to consolidate their positions before Saturday where the final throw of the dice will occur.

6. Totally agree. They have it covered


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nino comes off as a nice guy in interviews. Makes me wonder if he just blows up behind closed doors. Every day he got a flat "that's racing. Oh well." Today - "Lars blew up, not sure what happened. That's probably it for the overall." Maybe that just reflects that Cape Epic really isn't his focus for this season. But, he seems to be in amazing shape and is constantly pushing the pace (or flatting).



Stonerider said:


> I'm always curious about tire choice...does anyone know what version of tires the Specialized sponsored teams are running at Cape Epic...S-Works, Control, or Grid? I highly doubt they are running the supple and light S-Works version.


Maxxis's troubles this year make me laugh. I was listening to a podcast on the 2021 Cape Epic and someone made a joke about "never running Specialized tires because they always flat." I think everyone was running Aspens. But, then here we have Nino flatting every day on Maxxis Aspens (sure it's the weird ST one, but still).


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

cassieno said:


> Where is this interview?


They’ve been interviewed after each stage. You can see them at the end of the live coverage videos for the stages.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

cassieno said:


> Maxxis's troubles this year make me laugh. I was listening to a podcast on the 2021 Cape Epic and someone made a joke about "never running Specialized tires because they always flat." I think everyone was running Aspens. But, then here we have Nino flatting every day on Maxxis Aspens (sure it's the weird ST one, but still).


To be fair, my lived experience has been that I can never seem to keep air in Spec tires (seeping, flats, etc.) but Maxxis works well for me. Remember, choose a brand and be a dick about it.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

peabody said:


> Then why doesn’t the Scott/SRAM team bother you?


I am unaware of any ex-dopers on their management team.

I do know that frischknecht has an excellent reputation for ethics. And I would be disappointed if he had signed any ex-dopers as coaching staff.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Regarding tires, Beers and Sarrou had zero flats last year running Specialized Renegade and Fasttrack. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

celswick said:


> Regarding tires, Beers and Sarrou had zero flats last year running Specialized Renegade and Fasttrack.


Specialized's new generation XC tires seem much more durable than their prior iterations. Knock on wood, I've had great luck with the new Fast Trak and Renegade Control T5 versions. I don't ride wet trails so the T5 compound is great for me.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Beers and Blevins had a great tactical win today. The short track World Champion was showing off his sprint speed today.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

cassieno said:


> Maxxis's troubles this year make me laugh. I was listening to a podcast on the 2021 Cape Epic and someone made a joke about "never running Specialized tires because they always flat." I think everyone was running Aspens. But, then here we have Nino flatting every day on Maxxis Aspens (sure it's the weird ST one, but still).


I remember from 5-6 years ago (I think it was) when Specialized were running s-works tires at Cape Epic, it was really bad with punctures. Probably a pretty different design now, the tires have at least become a lot wider. When the stages are that long I can imagine that the lower rolling resistance of the lighter tires become very important so it is worth the puncture risk.

If there are a lot of small sharp rocks I get punctures in the center of the tread with Aspens, I have a much better durability track record with Ikons, they last forever for me.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Like I said before...Blevins looks like is going to be a problem this year and Beers is holding him back. Looking at the results of today's stage, it's going to be a tactical race from now on for Canyon Northwave to hold of their lead. If Toyota-Spesh play their cars right they can move to second.

No arguing who's gonna win on the women side.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Looks like GRID on the back and for some Control on the front, specialized GRID casing is pretty bombproof, seems like for cape epic it's worth to run 100-150g heavier tires


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Over the years I thought the problem specialized had was the tires that their racers chose to run. Specialized made good durable tires but their racers were not choosing them.

Every manufacturer makes a very light and fragile tire and if choose them expect issues. Has anybody ever actually worn out a maxxis exception series tire?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Looks like GRID on the back and for some Control on the front, specialized GRID casing is pretty bombproof, seems like for cape epic it's worth to run 100-150g heavier tires


Rear is always GRID since last years Epic. Front is swapped between control and GRID depending on terrain. Thy ran GriD front and rear for Stage 2 I believe. For the Greyton Stages which is less rocky and more lose gravel they are using control on the front for better feel.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Over the years I thought the problem specialized had was the tires that their racers chose to run. Specialized made good durable tires but their racers were not choosing them.
> 
> Every manufacturer makes a very light and fragile tire and if choose them expect issues. Has anybody ever actually worn out a maxxis exception series tire?


Nah they made some pretty horrific X tyres a few years ago. Brain doesn't help things either


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

The previous generation tan wall control fast trak was a complete disaster. I got weekly punctures on that thing. No problem with the black walled version though as it weighed about 50-70grams more.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> I am unaware of any ex-dopers on their management team.
> 
> I do know that frischknecht has an excellent reputation for ethics. And I would be disappointed if he had signed any ex-dopers as coaching staff.


If 30yrs in the cycling community has taught me 1 thing, the guys beating the dopers are never clean. Look at the WC guys in Frischi’s era, all popped or admitted dopers. You’re expecting me to believe he beat them clean? I heard the same dumb argument about the Armstrong fan boys, that he was clean beating all the dopers. When the Euros came on the scene Overend said here comes the drugs, he was suddenly not competitive.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Running the previous gen Fasttrak & Renegade on the rigid single speed for 2 seasons with no punctures so far.
Lots of small nicks in the carcass, but nothing concerning.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

peabody said:


> If 30yrs in the cycling community has taught me 1 thing, the guys beating the dopers are never clean. Look at the WC guys in Frischi’s era, all popped or admitted dopers. You’re expecting me to believe he beat them clean? I heard the same dumb argument about the Armstrong fan boys, that he was clean beating all the dopers. When the Euros came on the scene Overend said here comes the drugs, he was suddenly not competitive.


Though I understand the logic of this, I don't accept the premise.

Perhaps the clean winner has greater motivation, opportunity and genetics than a bunch of dopers of otherwise average ability.

Some people are simply freaks of nature. Remove the option of doping, let's use human intelligence as an example of differing innate ability. What made Newton, Pascal or Curie so smart? Were they dopers too? Presumably no.

It is unfortunate that dopers have created doubters. It's a heavy price to pay for those that are clean and display truely great athletic performance. How to prove a negative?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I am really impressed with Beers ability to bounce back after food poisoning.

Lars seemed to have burned all his matches trying to keep up with Nino after all of those punctures. Will be curious to see if they make it back to the front. They were so far back today.

Same comment about Santa Cruz they were in touch and then just collapsed today.

I need more post race interviews!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

peabody said:


> If 30yrs in the cycling community has taught me 1 thing, the guys beating the dopers are never clean. Look at the WC guys in Frischi’s era, all popped or admitted dopers. You’re expecting me to believe he beat them clean? I heard the same dumb argument about the Armstrong fan boys, that he was clean beating all the dopers. When the Euros came on the scene Overend said here comes the drugs, he was suddenly not competitive.


In my 30 years of racing experience I know that clean riders have won against dopers and still win against dopers.

I know first hand that clean riders integrity is constantly questioned by people who have absolutely zero experience in pro racing. So, until somebody actually tests positive I give them the benefit of doubt.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> In my 30 years of racing experience I know that clean riders have won against dopers and still win against dopers.
> 
> I know first hand that clean riders integrity is constantly questioned by people who have absolutely zero experience in pro racing. So, until somebody actually tests positive I give them the benefit of doubt.


the list is long, very long of dopers that never tested positive. Age old excuse. Many still involved in cycling, announcers, team owners, etc.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Why are you here Peabody? By your own statement anyone who wins is a doper. So why follow the sport?

Also you seem to have chosen to argue with LMN just because? Like you intentionally asked for his option on a known doper so you could argue everyone dopes?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

peabody said:


> the list is long, very long of dopers that never tested positive. Age old excuse. Many still involved in cycling, announcers, team owners, etc.


There is no doubt that there is a long list of dopers in cycling. But just because a lot of people does doesn’t mean that everyone doped.

Don’t you think it is sort of self serving when a dopers says, everyone is doping. Of course they are going to say it, it makes it sound like they were just leveling the playing field.

The reality is there are freaks out there who do things that nobody else is going to doped or clean is going to do. I saw an 18 year kid do 1000 watts for a minute after 2 weeks of training. Most of us are good for about 10s at 1000 watts.


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Man I can't wait for round 1 in Brazil.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cassieno said:


> I am really impressed with Beers ability to bounce back after food poisoning.
> 
> Lars seemed to have burned all his matches trying to keep up with Nino after all of those punctures. Will be curious to see if they make it back to the front. They were so far back today.
> 
> ...


it wasn't food poisoning. He and the rest of the Specialized team as well as two of my pals were staying in the same accommodation in Stellenbosch, eating the same food. no one else got sick. They suspect he just picked up a mild bug. There is always a bug doing the rounds at the Cape Epic. I remember in 2018 waking up at 3am on day 5 and there was a queue outside the portaloo of about 50 peeps all wanting to use the loos. It wasn't pleasant


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> There is no doubt that there is a long list of dopers in cycling. But just because a lot of people does doesn’t mean that everyone doped.
> 
> Don’t you think it is sort of self serving when a dopers says, everyone is doping. Of course they are going to say it, it makes it sound like they were just leveling the playing field.
> 
> The reality is there are freaks out there who do things that nobody else is going to doped or clean is going to do. I saw an 18 year kid do 1000 watts for a minute after 2 weeks of training. Most of us are good for about 10s at 1000 watts.


lets not also forget that the period of time in question sports science was still poorly understood and training methodologies also created a big disparity in the pro peloton.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

D Bone said:


> Man I can't wait for round 1 in Brazil.


Let's start the predictions.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cassieno said:


> I am really impressed with Beers ability to bounce back after food poisoning.
> 
> Lars seemed to have burned all his matches trying to keep up with Nino after all of those punctures. Will be curious to see if they make it back to the front. They were so far back today.
> 
> ...


Lars crashed heavily today. He looked dizzy afterwards. Hopefully this is not a la Sam Gaze...


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

I'm really enjoying watching the Speed Company guys. They work really well as a team- always in close contact and helping each other and clearly not intimidated by the competition they're riding against.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I'm really enjoying watching the Speed Company guys. They work really well as a team- always in close contact and helping each other and clearly not intimidated by the competition they're riding against.


and totally self supported.
No camper van (turns out they did acquire one the day of the Prologue!)
No mechanic - they used the Fox distrobutors workshop, an arrangement brokered through Orbea on the Monday of Stage 1.
no masseuse, they get their massage with everyone else in the EPT recovery centre
The only help they brought along is Georg's dad who cooks for them.
After the stage they wash their own bikes (like it used to before high price bike maintenance packages became the norm)
These boys are next level underdogs and deserve all the support they can get.

Caveats: 
They entered very late, like the week before the event started.
They were entered too late for the event media team to do any interviews and a profile.
They sorted basic services once they were registered.
Their race strategy as quite a common sense one. Ride a hard Prologue as its a short effort. Then use the two hard days to recover and give up some time.
Finish the back end of the week strong
No one saw them coming, not even Specialized which is quite surprising with all the resources behind their effort


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

uintah said:


> Let's start the predictions.


Mine for the women:

1) There will be multiple winners this year and the overall winner won't be crowned until the last checkered flag waves.
2) Becca gets her first WC victory this season and will be in the mix for the overall title.
3) Laurie Arseneault will emerge as a top 10 rider as the season rolls on.
4) Kate and Emily will have bounce back years.
5) Evie wins the XC Short Track overall title. 
6) Pauline wins the XCO overall title with the help of her focusing on improving her descending skills during the winter.
7) (Not a prediction, but a fact) I will not miss a single lap of any of it!!


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

D Bone said:


> 6) Pauline wins the XCO overall title with the help of her focusing on improving her descending skills during the winter.


I like all your predictions. But has Pauline been improving her descending skills during the winter?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Hmm.

I think for North Americans Haley batten and chris Blevins are going to lead the charge.

Men’s racing will have no dominant riders but who was fast last year will be fast this year.

Women Loana will dominate early season with Richards late season. Pauline and Jolanda will be factors but less than they have been in the past. Mona will podium frequently but will not win. Riders who struggled last year will find it difficult to turn things around.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

For the men:

Titouan Carod is in good shape right now
Nino looks strong in Cape epic, should be able to do well in the beginning of the season, maybe even get another win.
Mathias Fluckiger will probably be good this year as well
a bit bummed that both Koretzky and mvdp seem to be stuck on the road bikes this season, should give room to some surprise winners though


For the women:

Mona Mitterwallner will be interesting to see if she picks up where she ended 2021
Jenny Rissveds (probably not for the first races though since it is still snow/ice where she lives)
PFP has done a lot of enduro training, will be interesting to see if it makes any difference
Evie Richards will probably be good this year as well


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Dark horse:

Men: Filipo Colombo or Vlad
Women: Becca

All the usual suspects will be there, but I also like Blevins and Batten.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

More pics...









[FOTO REPORTAJE] Correr en casa da alas, la acción de hoy en la Absa Cape Epic


Otro día largo y la carrera que empieza a sonreir a los equipos que mejor han sabido dosificar las fuerzas en el inicio de carrera y que mejor han sabido esquivar los problemas físicos y mecánicos. Los días de auténtica Absa Cape Epic




esmtb.com













[FOTO REPORTAJE] El día que se confirmaron los 3 equipos más fuertes de la Absa Cape Epic


Una etapa que ha confirmado que los 3 mejores equipos de la general están un paso por delante del resto. Un día muy rápido al inicio pero que ha vuelto a suponer una larga jornada para la mayoría




esmtb.com


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Skier78 said:


> For the men:
> 
> 
> a bit bummed that both Koretzky and mvdp seem to be stuck on the road bikes this season, should give room to some surprise winners though


And Milan Vader is another one, now at Jumbo-Visma. However, I'm wondering if he was at the 3 week altitude camp the team had; another new signing, Christophe Laporte has probably been the signing of the season - and that was his first long training stint at an altitude camp. If we see Vader on the MTB, will he also have made a jump in form?


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> Hmm.
> 
> I think for North Americans Haley batten and chris Blevins are going to lead the charge.


Gwendalyn Gibson for some surprise results in her first year in elites. She's close to getting in the short track. If she can do that and get a better spot on the grid she's someone to watch. Otherwise I agree.


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

ccm said:


> I like all your predictions. But has Pauline been improving her descending skills during the winter?


Yea, she rode a ton on bigger bikes this winter with Vali and Cécile Ravanel. I'm betting hanging on that fence in the Olympics was the last straw. If she can pull back 3-4 seconds a lap in the tech compared to what she used to be able to do, then watch out because her fitness is obviously bonkers. 

If I can do one last prediction:

8) Jolanda wins the Rainbow Stripes.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> Shoot, I'll scrutinize men and women the same....I believe in equality. When MvdP or Nino screw up I have no problem pointing it out. I don't see why you're so defensive unless you perceive your female partner received undue criticism because of her gender.


No, this was what my post was regarding as well. This forum is pretty funny. A bunch of 40-60 year old men making career calls and pretty harsh judgments on a 20somethjng female with an off year and potential injuries unbeknownst to us dudes. 

Women also contend with a minstrel cycle that sometimes falls on a race week. Men don’t. 

Edit: Leaving the misspelling for humor 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

FJSnoozer said:


> No, this was what my post was regarding as well. This forum is pretty funny. A bunch of 40-60 year old men making career calls and pretty harsh judgments on a 20somethjng female with an off year and potential injuries unbeknownst to us dudes.
> 
> Women also contend with a minstrel cycle that sometimes falls on a race week. Men don’t.
> 
> ...













Sorry dude I couldn't help it


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## 141 (Jun 25, 2021)

FJSnoozer said:


> No, this was what my post was regarding as well. This forum is pretty funny. A bunch of 40-60 year old men making career calls and pretty harsh judgments on a 20somethjng female with an off year and potential injuries unbeknownst to us dudes.
> 
> Women also contend with a minstrel cycle that sometimes falls on a race week. Men don’t.
> 
> ...


I too disagree with the harsh judgements, but I don't think that is the entirety of the discussion. I think some of it, is as a recreational rider, it is interesting try and understand why some riders are good for a season and then drop off, and what that maybe had to do with their training.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> No, this was what my post was regarding as well. This forum is pretty funny. A bunch of 40-60 year old men making career calls and pretty harsh judgments on a 20somethjng female with an off year and potential injuries unbeknownst to us dudes.
> 
> Women also contend with a minstrel cycle that sometimes falls on a race week. Men don’t.
> 
> ...


Nothing screams support for women like the inability to spell "menstrual" correctly or even be bothered to google it to ensure you are close for that matter.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

MessagefromTate said:


> Nothing screams support for women like the inability to spell "menstrual" correctly or even be bothered to google it to ensure you are close for that matter.


I have to look up how to spell perineum. And I have one.

FJ getting minstrel (sic) wrong is understandable to those of us that make mistakes. Gave me a good chuckel to be honest.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Sorry dude I couldn't help it


Lol, iPhone word predictor. 



Lahrs said:


> I have to look up how to spell perineum. And I have one.
> 
> FJ getting minstrel (sic) wrong is understandable to those of us that make mistakes. Gave me a good chuckel to be honest.


More awkward (which I can never spell), is trying to text someone about the slap tear in your labrum and you type labia. I may be guilty of that.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

For the women
Mona will win by July,
Pauline will be off form in Brasil but will win another rainbow jersey
Kate will find some form again and be strong contender at WC and take silver
Evie and Loana will be early season leaders with a bit of fade into the tail end of the season.
Rebecca will win maybe as early as Petropolis.
Mariske Straus will have her best season with several top 10 finishes

Men:
Mvdp will win the rainbow jersey
Alan Harherley will win 2 world cups finishing third 
Chris Blevins will be the most consistent top 3 finisher
Nino will be there or thereabouts might kick into a record equalling 33rd win
Henry will in Petropolis, cannondale will sweep the podium 123.
Flukiger i predict will slump this season. Might start strong buts he’s getting on wind will be fewer against more hungry younger riders


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

FJSnoozer said:


> No, this was what my post was regarding as well. This forum is pretty funny. A bunch of 40-60 year old men making career calls and pretty harsh judgments on a 20somethjng female with an off year and potential injuries unbeknownst to us dudes.
> 
> Women also contend with a minstrel cycle that sometimes falls on a race week. Men don’t.
> 
> ...


Isn't that what passionate fans of all sports do? If you want fans, you have to take the scrutiny. In the US they have a term for it, "Monday morning quarterback". It's where fans come together and talk about performances, what went right and what went wrong. Maybe professional XC mountain bikers don't want fans...maybe that's why it's still a small, niche sport? Go to CyclingNews forums and you will see all kinds of scrutiny for male road cyclist and nobody is crying that they are picking on them because they are male. I've been married for 36 years, have two daughters and three granddaughters (also a son and grandson) and I love and respect women. But the fact of the matter is if you want fans you have to take the scrutiny that comes with it. And I suspect Kate and others want fans by the number of Instagram posts they make...the more fans, the bigger contract they can negotiate.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> There is no doubt that there is a long list of dopers in cycling. But just because a lot of people does doesn’t mean that everyone doped.
> 
> Don’t you think it is sort of self serving when a dopers says, everyone is doping. Of course they are going to say it, it makes it sound like they were just leveling the playing field.
> 
> The reality is there are freaks out there who do things that nobody else is going to doped or clean is going to do. I saw an 18 year kid do 1000 watts for a minute after 2 weeks of training. Most of us are good for about 10s at 1000 watts.


Absolutely. Talent and good training is greater than doping in endurance sport. 

In xc skiing, some Austrian skiers were caught literally with needles in their arms. These guys
We’re racing into 30th something place as also rans. In contrast, athletes I would bet my life on are clean (Americans, Canadians, Swedes) and on the podium. Doping helps absolutely but not enough to put everyone on the podium. 

In2022, It is possible to win clean. Lmn knows that better than anyone on this board.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

xcskier66 said:


> Absolutely. Talent and good training is greater than doping in endurance sport.
> 
> In xc skiing, some Austrian skiers were caught literally with needles in their arms. These guys
> We’re racing into 30th something place as also rans. In contrast, athletes I would bet my life on are clean (Americans, Canadians, Swedes) and on the podium. Doping helps absolutely but not enough to put everyone on the podium.
> ...


I have learned over the years that engine size is at best a moderate predictor of performance. The number of 70kg guys who can smash out 20 minute tests north of 450 watts is quite shocking. But the ability to turn that engine into world class performance in competition is really difficult.

I coach one athlete who has a crazy small engine. I always look at their watts/kg and go, how do you race so well? They are just really good at getting everything out themselves.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> And I suspect Kate and others want fans by the number of Instagram posts they make...the more fans, the bigger contract they can negotiate.


Nowadays a certain number of posts per week is part of their contract. Things aren't like they use to be.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> Nowadays a certain number of posts per week is part of their contract. Things aren't like they use to be.


I was sponsored in another life, another sport. If you've (not directed at you, @LMN ) never been sponsored then you may not realize the pressure that a sponsorship might bring to bear. _Might_. Some people are forced to take on the personality of the hand that feeds them if they want to continue to play the game. It's a double-edged sword.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> Isn't that what passionate fans of all sports do? If you want fans, you have to take the scrutiny. In the US they have a term for it, "Monday morning quarterback". It's where fans come together and talk about performances, what went right and what went wrong. Maybe professional XC mountain bikers don't want fans...maybe that's why it's still a small, niche sport? Go to CyclingNews forums and you will see all kinds of scrutiny for male road cyclist and nobody is crying that they are picking on them because they are male. I've been married for 36 years, have two daughters and three granddaughters (also a son and grandson) and I love and respect women. But the fact of the matter is if you want fans you have to take the scrutiny that comes with it. And I suspect Kate and others want fans by the number of Instagram posts they make...the more fans, the bigger contract they can negotiate.


No, if you look at the body of the posts, it’s pretty bad. If you don’t see that, then you have just discovered you unconscious bias. 

Over the years it’s been pretty poor taste. Example: jolanda a gets interviewed while in the trainer at every race and immediately after the race after a win with her excited breathing. All of a sudden she is called “Manic” and then a strettttch is made to say her riding style is dangerous because of this disposition. 

Just wait until y’all start attacking Eve’s bubbly personality. 

I’ll give you this, Nino is the only male that takes almost as much flack. But that’s to be expected when you are at the top for so long. 


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> Just wait until y’all start attacking Eve’s bubbly personality.


Obviously amphetamines. No one can bubble that much naturally.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

FJSnoozer said:


> No, if you look at the body of the posts, it’s pretty bad. If you don’t see that, then you have just discovered you unconscious bias.
> 
> Over the years it’s been pretty poor taste. Example: jolanda a gets interviewed while in the trainer at every race and immediately after the race after a win with her excited breathing. All of a sudden she is called “Manic” and then a strettttch is made to say her riding style is dangerous because of this disposition.
> 
> ...


I don’t recall Jolanda being called a maniac, or being criticized for her riding style. I do recall PFP being accused of “brake-checking” Jolanda in the Olympics. Maybe I don’t pay that kind of stuff much attention. Lol.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Manic not maniac. 

You are also on track with the context being around that race. 


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Pretty sure Jolanda accused her.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

LMN said:


> Nowadays a certain number of posts per week is part of their contract. Things aren't like they use to be.


There’s a local rider that’s quite active on social media—I’m guessing it’s a requirement of his sponsorship. He does a good job of it, although I think if it was me, I’d tire of it quickly. 

I do enjoy following Cory Wallace’s Instagram, though. He’s managed to meld “training camp” with bikepacking his XC bike through Africa. I think sponsors are getting something unique there.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

GSPChilliwack said:


> I do enjoy following Cory Wallace’s Instagram, though. He’s managed to meld “training camp” with bikepacking his XC bike through Africa. I think sponsors are getting something unique there.


His Tibetan stuff is good 
Although from the main pic on his webpage, I keep thinking he's put a Manitou fork on backwards


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

Cape Epic was exciting! Hope we will see Speed Company guys in XCO WC soon. And they didn't use dropper posts.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

arnea said:


> Cape Epic was exciting! Hope we will see Speed Company guys in XCO WC soon. And they didn't use dropper posts.


If you have skills you obviously don't need a dropper at Cape Epic. The bonuses of no dropper is lighter weight and more comfort as a nice carbon seat post will provide better vibration dampening than a metal dropper. All that adds up over an 8 day stage race.


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

I wonder how much the benefits of dropper post adds up during 8 days. Hard to quantify.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

_edu_ said:


> I wonder how much the benefits of dropper post adds up during 8 days. Hard to quantify.


For me, after 8 days of racing like that, I’d need a dropper just to get on and off my bike!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That was some impressive racing by the SCR guys. Name fits perfectly!!! I saw a video of them hammering and it reminded me of when Hermida blasted past Jaro on a downhill a few years ago.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I couldn’t help but notice that the Speed Company guys were burlier looking than most of the other racers. They didn’t look super lean like most XCO guys, but looked very powerful. Like road sprinters. 


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> If you have skills you obviously don't need a dropper at Cape Epic. The bonuses of no dropper is lighter weight and more comfort as a nice carbon seat post will provide better vibration dampening than a metal dropper. All that adds up over an 8 day stage race.


Less mechanical parts to go wrong too and less to maintain


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

_edu_ said:


> I wonder how much the benefits of dropper post adds up during 8 days. Hard to quantify.


Not much. In 2018 my partner used one and I didn’t. There wasn’t enough highly technical terrain to justify the gains and was a lot of sandy roads and technical climbing where saddle position was more important. By day 4 most guys with droppers needed to have them serviced to get the dust out of the cables and from the oil wiper seals in a reverb and transfer. Cheaper posts like the Lyne contour with less tight tolerances faired better but were noticeably slower on return due to water ingress. I had my fork and rear shock serviced after stage 4. Dust and bike wash water are the main killers and a dropper is just more parts that could fail.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

xcskier66 said:


> In xc skiing, some Austrian skiers were caught literally with needles in their arms. These guys
> We’re racing into 30th something place as also rans. In contrast, athletes I would bet my life on are clean (Americans, Canadians, Swedes) and on the podium. Doping helps absolutely but not enough to put everyone on the podium.


I wouldn't be so fast with betting life on things you don't have much ideas about  Marketing, PR and social media are one thing, real life, the one behind cameras and instagram posts is the other. One of always clean teams with "clean as snow" mentality, also nation wide one, had few "glitches" in last 4 or 5 years, but they were always just a little mistake nothing big, even though it was about racers who won anything you could win in xc skiing, and some more. When I summarize this, plus some extra stuff I know from being inside of xc ski WC for almost all my life, I would really be careful on what I would be betting my life on, and "it's possible to win clean" is certainly not something I would dare to bet my life on  But it's mtb forum so let's not mix xc skiing into this.


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## t-stoff (Jan 20, 2012)

Georg Egger used a "normal" OIZ with a OMR frame (like and M10 or M10 TR?) instead of the top range OMX


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

t-stoff said:


> Georg Egger used a "normal" OIZ with a OMR frame (like and M10 or M10 TR?) instead of the top range OMX


that's right.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

As well as the finish of the Cape Epic, there were some XC races on, some which were live streamed. Lecomte looked in another league, putting over two minutes into everybody; Frei had a small crash, and looks like Evie had a DNF. Matthias had a decent first race of the season behind Colombo and Carod. While Cink and Mitterwallner both won in Austria.









XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.




www.xcodata.com


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

primoz said:


> I wouldn't be so fast with betting life on things you don't have much ideas about  Marketing, PR and social media are one thing, real life, the one behind cameras and instagram posts is the other. One of always clean teams with "clean as snow" mentality, also nation wide one, had few "glitches" in last 4 or 5 years, but they were always just a little mistake nothing big, even though it was about racers who won anything you could win in xc skiing, and some more. When I summarize this, plus some extra stuff I know from being inside of xc ski WC for almost all my life, I would really be careful on what I would be betting my life on, and "it's possible to win clean" is certainly not something I would dare to bet my life on  But it's mtb forum so let's not mix xc skiing into this.


Honestly, this type of attitude gets me down. It's a really glass half empty way of looking at sport and too fatalistic for my tastes. Athletes should be presumed innocent until proven guilty; otherwise what is the point of sport? Why even bother watching if you assume that the winners are doping?

Here's a list of world champ athletes I would go double or nothing on my mortgage that won world champs totally clean. Easy money. 

Nino S
Kate C
Catherine P
Jolanda Neff
Any athlete that isn't Russian

Source: I'm a total hack that likes racing and follows the sport. Never been to Europe or met any of these racers. I just don't think these athletes have ever doped. Mostly it's a feeling based judgement ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . I just don't think these athletes come from a culture of doping.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

xcskier66 said:


> Honestly, this type of attitude gets me down. It's a really glass half empty way of looking at sport and too fatalistic for my tastes. *Athletes should be presumed innocent until proven guilty*; otherwise what is the point of sport? Why even bother watching if you assume that the winners are doping?
> 
> Here's a list of world champ athletes I would go double or nothing on my mortgage that won world champs totally clean. Easy money.
> 
> ...


I hope you do realize you have serious issues... I have put this to bold for you to realize easier, if we are going to stick with the attitude that doesn't get you down  I wasn't writing about mtb, as I have way to little proper info about mtb to write anything about this, but was writing about your xc ski comparison, and for that I have plenty of real life first hand info and data. Those racers I was writing about and got caught on doping were not Russians just to be clear, and they are from country, which you consider as "I just don't think these athletes come from a culture of doping". They all won numerous over world cups, endless amount of WC races and have all together more then 10 Olympic medals and more 30 or so World Championships medals. Yet they are still biggest heroes of xc skiing, and those "little glitches" were brushed off like small unintentional mistake that just happens, nothing serious or nothing big.
On the other side you have several "athletes that are Russian" and have never ever tested positive, not during World cup, World Championships nor during Olympics, where they were winning, yet you are by default blaming them of doping, or at least don't trust they are clean.
So please get this straight and then either keep "athletes should be presumed innocent until proven guilty", and keep this rule for everyone, or don't feel too down, when someone bursts your bubble.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

I wanted to know more about the Speed Company Racing. First I found nothing then I stumbled upon this article in German: Dürfen wir vorstellen: Die derzeit coolste Two-Men-Show im Radsport

So it is just Georg and Lukas - a two man show.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

arnea said:


> I wanted to know more about the Speed Company Racing. First I found nothing then I stumbled upon this article in German: Dürfen wir vorstellen: Die derzeit coolste Two-Men-Show im Radsport
> 
> So it is just Georg and Lukas - a two man show.


I heard from live feed that they did everything themselves (cook, washing bikes, mechanical assistance, etc.) but also one of their fathers accompanied them during the race.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

They said they picked up a small motorhome at the airport and were living out of that. Then you look at the crew with Nino and Lars, looked like 10+ people with them. Sometimes feeling like an underdog is exactly what's needed to mentally win a battle. Those 2 young guns knew who they were up against. And they went for it every day. I was kind of surprised they made up so much time on both stages 6 and 7. I think they "broke" the Canyon guys mentally. They kept saying how one of the Canyon guys had sore ribs. Which is no fun. But I think the constant attacking and the unknown element to those 2 guys, was enough to finally get the best of them. A touch of luck doesn't hurt either. For the first time in years, I actually watched the whole days coverage. The woman's race was a bit of a snooze, but the mens race was awesome. They needed that mixture of veterans, and new faces to keep it more interesting.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> They said they picked up a small motorhome at the airport and were living out of that. Then you look at the crew with Nino and Lars, looked like 10+ people with them. Sometimes feeling like an underdog is exactly what's needed to mentally win a battle. Those 2 young guns knew who they were up against. And they went for it every day. I was kind of surprised they made up so much time on both stages 6 and 7. I think they "broke" the Canyon guys mentally. They kept saying how one of the Canyon guys had sore ribs. Which is no fun. But I think the constant attacking and the unknown element to those 2 guys, was enough to finally get the best of them. A touch of luck doesn't hurt either. For the first time in years, I actually watched the whole days coverage. The woman's race was a bit of a snooze, but the mens race was awesome. They needed that mixture of veterans, and new faces to keep it more interesting.


No sure if they picked up the motorhome on arrival or on the day of the Prlogue but it was tight. They only entered in the week leading up to the Epic. So they were not in town long.
They handed out the biggest sucker punch to the big elite teams that's ever been dished out.
Sponsors be like "you want a raise, you gonna need a raise, I'll sponsor those boys for half the money I pay you and get triple the coverage and better results."
Big teams don't like guys like Speed Company. They're disruptors. I love the disruptors. Cape Epic 2023 will cost a team $7500.
If you look at their game plan it was a classic stage race approach.
Go hard in the prologue to not lose too much time.
Take the hardest stages easy while the main protagonists try to kill each other. bleed a bit of time but you're expending less energy and riding yourself into form.
First Easy stage, Stage 3 give it full gas. and take the stage win. take back some time
Stage 4 peg the gap
Stage 5 Attack and try to take time out of the leaders. took a wrong turn and lost time instead but gain over Toyota
Stage 6 ; Attack again
Stage 7 attack some more.

They saved their legs and energy on the super hot Stage 1 and Stage 2. They also make sure to stay in the pack into the headwinds.
In short, they outsmarted everyone and by being minimalist in approach and literally being the jokers in the pack no one took them seriously till the noose was already tight


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

They did warn everyone "we arent here to take part. We are here to take over"


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cassieno said:


> They did warn everyone "we arent here to take part. We are here to take over"


yip and no one took notice. Everyone was kind of smirking and whispering "Newbies<skoff> they'll learn their lesson.."
They're going to be the most marked men in XCM from now on LOL.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Are they marathon guys? Eager seems familiar in World Cup xc. Maybe I’m thinking of someone else. They said they were childhood friends. They truly looked like a team. The others looked like two guys thrown together. I hope they got paid a few bucks.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

From the German article linked above - one has been performing below his potential (his words) and the other had been on a break for two years. They didn't think they would get the recognition they knew they deserved from an existing team so started their own.

They have know each other for years (since 13) so their chemistry was far better than the pros who just show up and happen to race together.

I think Haley and Sophie and the canyon / northwave guys also worked extremely well together.


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## 141 (Jun 25, 2021)

I was looking at photos of Georg Egger throughout the last several years, particularly 2018 and earlier, on his website, and found it very interesting that he seems to have very thin grips of some wrap on material, and also seems to often grip the bars quite far inwards from the ends. It seems as if he only had the outer parts of the grips to use while out of the saddle climbing for extra leverage? Is this a common idea?









Saison '20







www.georg-egger.com


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

I like how they have an "error" in their name. It should be Speed Racing Company, right? But no, it's Speed Company Racing. Like they are the racing department of the mysterious "Speed Company" -- the largest producer of speed on earth and they are using the best speed for racing.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

141 said:


> I was looking at photos of Georg Egger throughout the last several years, particularly 2018 and earlier, on his website, and found it very interesting that he seems to have very thin grips of some wrap on material, and also seems to often grip the bars quite far inwards from the ends. It seems as if he only had the outer parts of the grips to use while out of the saddle climbing for extra leverage? Is this a common idea?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


mydefault preferred handlebar grip for Mtb is tennis racquet grip wrapped onto the bar in two to three layers. It’s far better at sweat management than overpriced road bike bar tape and comfortable. I suspect he is doing similarly


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Anybody asked for drops and jumps? Check out the pictures of the Petropolis UCI WC course...yikes!!!









Así es el circuito de la Copa del Mundo de XCO en Brasil


El circuito de la Copa del Mundo de XCO en Petropolis, Brasil, quiere dejar huella en la historia del MTB. Os mostramos parte de lo que ofrecerá a los espectadores y a [email protected] bikers




esmtb.com


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

That course does look good.
I'd spend a day doing a lap


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

A lap of the first xc wc course -


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Looks like a fun course!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The team I currently work as a part time mechanic is down there and all of them say the track is insane!!! Also, someone crashed and broke their arm yesterday...don't know who yet...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Here is a video of the track from my kids...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

arnea said:


> I like how they have an "error" in their name. It should be Speed Racing Company, right? But no, it's Speed Company Racing. Like they are the racing department of the mysterious "Speed Company" -- the largest producer of speed on earth and they are using the best speed for racing.


It's funny you type that. As Cape Epic was going on, I googled "Speed Company" to figure out who they were sponsored by...if it was a clothing thing, a parts company, a lube/cleaner mfg. I'm still in the dark,..and there are appx. 12 billion "Speed Company" in the world.

My alternative theory was they are the secret arm of EF/Rapha (but I only based that on the jersey  )


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Petropolis course look super fun!!! But IMO, live coverage is not gonna be that good inside the forrest.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think they (the UCI MTB guys) went out a month or two ago, so will have picked the best spots for the cameras. Hopefully the coverage is okay.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)




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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

carlostruco said:


> Here is a video of the track from my kids...


Crazy how that kid has to operate the dropper post with his hand half off the grip. I have my dropper right next to grip and it still allows me to use my Twinloc.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Kid's got crazy skills...he was a motocross racer until he picked a mountain bike at age 15...that was 8 years ago and he's still improving.


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## ligniteminer (May 10, 2012)

Anyone have details on Neff's move to Team USA?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

April 1st........


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Where did you see Neff's move? I didn't see that yet. Interesting. Even if she lived here much of the year, most still race for their home country.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Great to have Neff coming to Team USA. A little bummed we lost Kate in the trade, but she'll do fine on the Swiss team.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm bad with these April 1st things. I just forget it's a thing, and except for the really obvious ones, believe half of them. The park tool NFT-1 is good, took me a few seconds to realize what was going on.

I could see Neff moving to US and becoming a citizen though. Plenty of athletes live somewhere else then ride for another country come Olympics and World Champs.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Jojo  

Did she literally just borrow her teammate’sUSA jersey?


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

I saw Wout Van Aert's instagram post and thought it was an April Fools joke. Had to visit a few cycling news sites to see whether or not it was. I was very sad to see it wasn't a joke.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I saw Wout Van Aert's instagram post and thought it was an April Fools joke. Had to visit a few cycling news sites to see whether or not it was. I was very sad to see it wasn't a joke.


This was announced yesterday...though it was made public today...


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

FJSnoozer said:


> Jojo
> 
> Did she literally just borrow her teammate’sUSA jersey?
> 
> ...


Are you sure that’s a joke? I just watched her post, seemed legit to me. She mentions little bellas and whatnot.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

^don't play poker with her then


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Instagram post. If it’s fake, it’s mean. She mentions teaming with Leah Davison doing stuff with little bellas, Kate Courtney said welcome to the team, trek corp said congrats. I don’t think that’s a joke. If not her timing was off by a day.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Aren't the fools day jokes supposed to be not realistic when you think about it? Like UCI requiring bells and dropper posts now? Or the invisible shirt, and the tires that change tread? That type of thing? Nothing hard to believe with the Neff thing. She lives here much of the time, and the whole thing seems way to legit. Her retiring, or something, that would be a good april fools type joke.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

It’s fake. Not fake enough. But fake.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

No that is exactly what an april fools day joke would be.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I saw Wout Van Aert's instagram post and thought it was an April Fools joke. Had to visit a few cycling news sites to see whether or not it was. I was very sad to see it wasn't a joke.


Covid, and all kinds of illness is sweeping through the peloton. He gave up a CX World Championship to be fit and ready for Flanders/Roubaix.......


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

ShortTravelMag said:


> It’s fake. Not fake enough. But fake.


The giveaway for me (other than the date) is the jersey - Even if she were on "Team USA" she wouldn't have a stars and stripes jersey with Trek Factory on it unless she won the US nationals in the future. National team jerseys at Worlds and Olympics don't have trade team names on them. Presumably it's Riley Amos' jersey that he gets as U23 national champion?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Yes, she’s got to be wearing his jersey. How skinny must he be to have Jolanda wear it and it fits just fine lol


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Tour of Flanders tomorrow, and there will be three XCO World Cup winners racing; which is surely a first? MvdP x3, Koretzky x2, and Pidcock x1.


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## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

ligniteminer said:


> Anyone have details on Neff's move to Team USA?


Aprils fools joke/ according to a story why Brad Copeland her luggage didn’t arrive.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> This was announced yesterday...though it was made public today...


I guess I didn't realize there was a difference between announcing and making public...


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

So...gettin greal confused, tghe redbull tv app has lost it completly. Normally I watch on playstation4, and there is is saying everything is on the 10th.
If i go to the website and go normally to the BTB races, it still says 10th, but if I try to open the link it basically poops itself.
But if I use an old book mark i saved years and years ago, I can get to the actual event, it says the even is 8-10th, but the actual races are the 4th...

So apart from it all being wonky...my question is...When IS the actual racing starting?


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

mik_git said:


> So...gettin greal confused, tghe redbull tv app has lost it completly. Normally I watch on playstation4, and there is is saying everything is on the 10th.
> If i go to the website and go normally to the BTB races, it still says 10th, but if I try to open the link it basically poops itself.
> But if I use an old book mark i saved years and years ago, I can get to the actual event, it says the even is 8-10th, but the actual races are the 4th...
> 
> So apart from it all being wonky...my question is...When IS the actual racing starting?


April 8-10
Here's a link to the schedule of events, but it's basically: elite short track on Friday, U23 XC on Saturday, and elite XC on Sunday. Same as previous years.








Schedule


Covid-19 Protocol




mtbwc.com.br


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

right, OK, so racing today was not work cup stuff, just other racing?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

No, but still a UCI ranked race with points. Today are the XCO races.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Meanwhile... back in the land of no dropper posts. Oh.... wait  Our friend MVDP wins the Tour of Flanders today after winning the Dwars door Vlaanderen on Wednesday. Pogacar got schooled hard.

https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-of-flanders-2022/elite-men/results/

I'd venture he's back to pretty good form. Has anyone seen anything solid about him competing in XCO this year???


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

jrob300 said:


> Meanwhile... back in the land of no dropper posts. Oh.... wait  Our friend MVDP wins the Tour of Flanders today after winning the Dwars door Vlaanderen on Wednesday. Pogacar got schooled hard.
> 
> https://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-of-flanders-2022/elite-men/results/
> 
> I'd venture he's back to pretty good form. Has anyone seen anything solid about him competing in XCO this year???


I read he was planning on riding the Giro and the TdF this season. I'd say chances of seeing him race XCO are pretty slim considering how his last XCO race went (Olympics).


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

He mentioned because of his back he didn't have plans for XCO. Doesn't mean he won't show up though.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Does anyone know what the cut off date is for being ranked top 40 and getting into the short track for next weekend?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

cassieno said:


> He mentioned because of his back he didn't have plans for XCO. Doesn't mean he won't show up though.


Unfortunately I believe he's learned he's not capable of doing it all, Road, CX, and MTB, 12 months of the year. He also knows that fame and fortune are greater for him on the Road versus MTB and since he's getting older he needs to shore up his road palmares.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

uintah said:


> Does anyone know what the cut off date is for being ranked top 40 and getting into the short track for next weekend?


Monday or Tuesday. But le me double check and get back to you.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> I read he was planning on riding the Giro and the TdF this season. I'd say chances of seeing him race XCO are pretty slim considering how his last XCO race went (Olympics).


One hopes we see him - but I doubt we will this season. And the new grid rule means he can start from the 4/5th row due to his road/CX ranking. Maybe it will be next year we see him?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Meanwhile Eli Iserbyt is supposed to race Albstadt and Nove Mesto


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes, I wish a few more male CX riders would have a go at MTB; most do the same predictable programmes. Summer training camps followed by road races in Belgium.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

So Neff won today by more than 6 minutes over a stacked field. Greasy conditions, sketchy features, and humid conditions is where Jolanda is really good. But wow, someone is packing some form.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> So Neff won today by more than 6 minutes over a stacked field. Greasy conditions, sketchy features, and humid conditions is where Jolanda is really good. But wow, someone is packing some form.


Was there any TV coverage of these races???


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> So Neff won today by more than 6 minutes over a stacked field. Greasy conditions, sketchy features, and humid conditions is where Jolanda is really good. But wow, someone is packing some form.


What race was that?


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

LMN said:


> So Neff won today by more than 6 minutes over a stacked field. Greasy conditions, sketchy features, and humid conditions is where Jolanda is really good. But wow, someone is packing some form.


any results lists? I've just seen rider's screenshots on Instagram. Nothing on XCOdata.com for the XCO race, or the organizer website. Just the XCM


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

uintah said:


> What race was that?











CIMTB


Copa Internacional de Mountain bike - Maior evento de MTB das Américas




cimtb.com.br


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

FactoryMatt said:


> CIMTB
> 
> 
> Copa Internacional de Mountain bike - Maior evento de MTB das Américas
> ...


Thanks. I saw the short track results and the field wasn't exactly stacked. Probably didn't mean much to most of them.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Results
XCC
Canadian Cyclist xcc-results-from-cimtb-brazil

XCO
Canadian Cyclist cimtb-brazil-xco-results-jackson-and-bouchard-top-canadians


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Some big names in the DNS list too.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

not to go off on a rabbit trail, but Jolanda’s white and black SiD was 👌


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> So Neff won today by more than 6 minutes over a stacked field. Greasy conditions, sketchy features, and humid conditions is where Jolanda is really good. But wow, someone is packing some form.


I wouldn’t bet the house based off these results. At our first XCO a few weeks back we also had a few of the world cups racers out here participating in the local XCO series. They didn’t race it to win it but rather used the races as training. I’m pretty sure Annie and co who finished 6min back were not going full gas for the win and riding well within themselves whilst Jolanda was probably riding the techie stuff as she normally does at 100%.
Even when she was In Stellenbosch a few weeks back she was sending it everywhere. There’s no eco mode with Jolanda.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

Brad said:


> I wouldn’t bet the house based off these results. At our first XCO a few weeks back we also had a a few of the world cups racers out here participating in the local XCO series. They didn’t race it to win it but rather as training. I’m pretty sure Annie and co would finished 6min back weee not going full gas for the win and riding. Well within themselves whilst Jolanda was probably riding the techie stuff as she normally does at 100%.
> Even when she was In Stellenbosch a few weeks back she was sending it everywhere. There’s no eco mode with Jolanda


That would account for like a 2 out of 6 min of her victory. A 6 min win against the women she was racing against is incredible. Everyone always talks about "training" races but I really doubt any of the other ladies were really pulling the punches and going at threshold. Sandbagging a race at threshold is a weird feeling and personally I don't believe in it. If you pin a bib on, you should be ready to fight to the finish line otherwise you can just end up in a weird mental headspace when it comes to push at your goal races. In my opinion, peaking is about getting your physiology right but also about training your brain to withstand/embrace/ignore the suffering that perfect performance requires. I've always found it really hard to go deep early in the first couple races, no matter my fitness. I'm guessing for elite racers it is similar.

This is an astronomical performance for Jolanda and really adds to the intrigue of the season. Will Jolanda win every single race or is she peaking too early? I really doubt she is peaking too early because she's been able to have amazing results at championships later in the season before...she obviously knows how to peak. I hope she stays healthy.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Track got really sketchy overnight and some heavy hitter DNS cuz of that. Neff winning bye such a huge margin is an indicator of her technical abilities, which we all know are second to none.

On the mens side, Top 10 are regular WV guys, and more impressive is Vidaurre winning by that margin and Camilo Gomez (Junior Silver Medal World Champs 2021) hanging with those men at 19yrs old. Watch out for him a Adrien Boichis...those two kids are fast!!!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Those two youngsters are at Trinity, and are indeed promising. I'm surprised the Vidaurre hasn't been snapped up by a bigger team. 



https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/uci-cross-country-mtb-world-cup-season-preview


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Those two youngsters are at Trinity, and are indeed promising. I'm surprised the Vidaurre hasn't been snapped up by a bigger team.
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/uci-cross-country-mtb-world-cup-season-preview


I could be wrong, but when he was here in Puerto Rico I heard him say he had a contract for 6 years with Lexware. He is also part German, so it makes sense to me...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

arca_tern said:


> not to go off on a rabbit trail, but Jolanda’s white and black SiD was 👌


Are there photos of the race anywhere?


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> Are there photos of the race anywhere?


I've just been checking out the race's instagram. i would assume official photos are somewhere now


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

arca_tern said:


> not to go off on a rabbit trail, but Jolanda’s white and black SiD was 👌


Yeah!


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

LMN said:


> So Neff won today by more than 6 minutes over a stacked field. Greasy conditions, sketchy features, and humid conditions is where Jolanda is really good. But wow, someone is packing some form.


I cant easily recall an xc race on this level with that gap! Sounds huge!


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

arca_tern said:


> not to go off on a rabbit trail, but Jolanda’s white and black SiD was 👌


Its so nice that it fits the rest of the bike! This is how a bike should look! Not with carnival orange fox, etc!


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Carioca_XC said:


> View attachment 1977925
> 
> 
> Yeah!


Soooooo...that's what a dropper post is for!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

smartyiak said:


> Soooooo...that's what a dropper post is for!


If you saw the save from Lena Gerault...the only reason she didn't go over the bars in one of the jumps was cuz her dropper. She over cooked it so much that she landed front wheel and the thing that saved her from going out of the track was the tape!!!









KTM Vittoria Team on Instagram: "First ride in Brasil it was so hot!!!! 😱🇧🇷 @ktmbikeindustries @ktmbike_franceofficial @vittoriatires @srsuntourinc @fsa_mtb @tiogacycling @diffusport @northwave_official @julbo_eyewear @met_helmets @htcomponents @kssuspension @_roodol_ @pedrosbikecare @mucoff @ytwo_bike #saveoftheday #fridayfall #ktmvittoriateam #ktmbikes #vittoriatires"


KTM Vittoria Team shared a post on Instagram: "First ride in Brasil it was so hot!!!! 😱🇧🇷 @ktmbikeindustries @ktmbike_franceofficial @vittoriatires @srsuntourinc @fsa_mtb @tiogacycling @diffusport @northwave_official @julbo_eyewear @met_helmets @htcomponents @kssuspension @_roodol_...




www.instagram.com


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> If you saw the save from Lena Gerault...the only reason she didn't go over the bars in one of the jumps was cuz her dropper. She over cooked it so much that she landed front wheel and the thing that saved her from going out of the track was the tape!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She was just showing off with a nose wheelie!


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## MillerC (Oct 25, 2018)




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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Ah, she got me #aprilfools


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> Wow! Never thought that could happen. Does this mean she’s becoming a US citizen? I’d guess so since she’s engaged to Luca.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Her luggage went missing and she borrowed stuff from Riley Amos.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

BREAKING NEWS!!! 

UCI has changed a few features of the World Cup track. It mostly involves jumps and drops that can now be rolled.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

YouTube video from Carlos Coloma perspective of last week's race.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

carlostruco said:


> BREAKING NEWS!!!
> 
> UCI has changed a few features of the World Cup track. It mostly involves jumps and drops that can now be rolled.


From Avancini's Insta:


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Thomus bikes are missing...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)




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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Hopefully people won't be slowing down to roll them in front of people carrying more speed to jump them...


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Ha ha, he'll be in Limburg for the Amstel Gold race......


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Thomus bikes are missing...


as in stolen, didn't arrive or the team isn't in Petropolis?


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## t-stoff (Jan 20, 2012)

Not sure if it was posted or if you guys have any more like this please post it

Some cool pics/details/bikecheck of Cape Epic bikes : 









Cape Epic Bikecheck: kola vítězů a biky slavných - Technika - Redakční foto - Fotogalerie - MTBS.cz


MTBS.cz - cyklistické zpravodajství




mtbs.cz


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Brad said:


> as in stolen, didn't arrive or the team isn't in Petropolis?


Didn't arrived...Team is in Petropolis.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Jordan Sarrou out with COVID-19


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Trek is also sick


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yeah, just seen on instagram, both Neff & Cooper out of tonight's XCC; but not Covid-19.....You'd think the others in the team may well be affected, but hopefully not.


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## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

Does anyone know what is happening with Emily Batty. It looks like she’s not on the start list for the first round.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Shame that nr1 favorite Neff is out


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/start-list-xcc-short-track-petrpolis-xc-world-cup-2022.html


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

agm2 said:


> Does anyone know what is happening with Emily Batty. It looks like she’s not on the start list for the first round.


Only racing from Albstadt I believe


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

_Bartłomiej Wawak - _never seen the name before, was front for call-up. Ended up one lap down. Ouch


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

Wawak has been a constant top 20 rider in the last years and ended on 9th place today.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

chilla13 said:


> Wawak has been a constant top 20 rider in the last years and ended on 9th place today.


Weird. Said he was one lap down on the live feed initial results. Chip error?


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

arca_tern said:


> Weird. Said he was one lap down on the live feed initial results. Chip error?


See attached photos.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I was watching on my phone screen strategically tucked away under my work monitor, but did it look like Litcher sat up and gave Hatherly the win?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

ewarnerusa said:


> I was watching on my phone screen strategically tucked away under my work monitor, but did it look like Litcher sat up and gave Hatherly the win?


Doubt it. I think the gap between Hatherly and Litscher from the finish camera angle was larger than it might have appeared, and when combined with the speed at which Hatherly went by him, Litscher knew it was a foregone outcome by that time.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Litscher went too early and couldn’t sustain the effort. Hatherly overhauled him

Wawak went down in big pile up. He’s been on the circuit for a few seasons and regularly places too 20


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

That was some pretty good racing!


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

I thought the camera placement was highly disappointing. Hopefully they fix it for the long race. The most interesting part of the short track was probably the big hill with the drop followed by the tabletop into the berm. Instead they shot from the other side of the viewing platform and crowd to kind of see them through the tunnel and then riding single file coming through the arch. 

Too many head on views as well at ground level that don't let you really see how far behind/ahead they are was irritating. It seemed like at least in the men's race they figured out how to get better pick up of the light in that one section so it didn't look like nearly night time.

But the racing and lead changes were fun to watch.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)




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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

well thats no good at all,.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

That’s horrible news. Sounds like a blood flow was restricted to his brain. I hope they got to him in time and he recovers fully.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Most impressive XCO ride? Jose Gerardo Ulloa. Wasn't scheduled to race, got in as a substitute, started dead last and placed 14th. 

Loana looks strong, as well as Evie and PFP and Becca...

Men's race is going to be carnage. To many hard to call, but I would not bet against Nino...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

*Andri Frischknecht out with COVID-19

Thomas Griot out with broken clavicule from Saturday training at the track*


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Seems like a lot of riders are still getting covid .


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It seems like Covid, and other viruses are going around like wildfire; riders dropping like flies......

Two impressive U23 performances; both current World Champions (U23/ Junior) Vidaurre looks ready for the Elites, and Burquier while slight is powerful; you don't finish Top 10 in Elite CX World Cups if you don't have decent power.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

There was quite a small number of covid positives during the cape epic. More after it. Even Lukas Baum had it the week after. The common denominator is flying


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Evie Richards also not starting.

Anybody knows whats up with Rissveds? Why she's not in Brazil?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Raikzz said:


> Evie Richards also not starting.
> 
> Anybody knows whats up with Rissveds? Why she's not in Brazil?


No clue, this is the team schedule she posted today.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Brad said:


> Seems like a lot of riders are still getting covid .


It's almost like just being "over" covid isn't a valid strategy. But time will tell. Hopefully this is the start of endemic. 

I also imagine two years of not traveling and being exposed to germs / viruses can't be great for anyone's immune system.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

LoLa doing what she does… 🚵‍♀️💨


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

This camera coverage kinda sucks. Riders’ Instagrams through the week showed what looked like an interesting and beautiful course, but this coverage isn’t exactly doing it justice. Feels like the Freecaster days…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

PlanB said:


> This camera coverage kinda sucks. Riders’ Instagrams through the week showed what looked like an interesting and beautiful course, but this coverage isn’t exactly doing it justice. Feels like the Freecaster days…
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Seems like a lot of static shots with empty track waiting for the next person to come through.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Impressive ride so far from Bohe, and ahead of Mona; last year she didn't see which way she went.......


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I agree, coverage is so bad!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

agm2 said:


> Seems like a lot of static shots with empty track waiting for the next person to come through.


I wonder what the reasoning is.....They mentioned in commentary the likeness to Cairns, in Australia; from memory, that too had static shots, and missed Nino's winning attack.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I said it a week ago...coverage is gonna be bad...

As for COVID-19, Brasil is one of the worst hit countries as the government drop the ball on safety measures...in short, IDK the guy, but Bolsonaro is an ass!!!

I'm so glad for BECCA!!! Also Terpstra ran an impressive race!!! Alos, Kate had a really bad start, but a strong finish!!!


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Men’s race… awesome action and maybe the worst camera work I’ve ever seen for a Red Bull WC. Borderline infuriating.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Sweet finish. The person interviewing Nino is completely hoarse. Sounds like she has been screaming all day along with the rest of the fans.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

That was epic🙌


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

WOW!!!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Impressive ride so far from Bohe, and ahead of Mona; last year she didn't see which way she went.......


I spent some time riding with Ghost factory over the summer while they were out here. Caroline was shadowing Anne most impressively. Mind blowing technical skills. huge natural talent. She's going to do well, very likely podium in 2022. They have a very strong team for 2022 and the future


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> Men’s race… awesome action and maybe the worst camera work I’ve ever seen for a Red Bull WC. Borderline infuriating.


How that last lap when we got a full view of the race for 4th while the win was shaping up to be Historical behind curtains.....
FIRE THE PRODUCER


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

I didn’t know if I was rooting for Nino or Maxime. Crazy nail-biter.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Awesome to see Bec finally get a Win


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Brad said:


> How that last lap when we got a full view of the race for 4th while the win was shaping up to be Historical behind curtains.....
> FIRE THE PRODUCER


Wondering if the rain forest canopy was the reason for interrupted camerawork.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I wonder if Avencini was like, “WHY? WHY? Why couldn’t somebody, anybody— besides NINO win MY RACE?”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I was wondering what people were talking about with the Video work.... just watched the Mens, the Womens had far better camera work.

Great racing all round


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

This course had crazy cool features. There were zero camera angles that showed off the features. Camera work was so blah. But, super exciting racing all around. The women's and men's races delivered.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

NINO! insane.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Congrats to Bec... finally!!! The camera work for the men's race was absolute ****. Somehow they managed to cover the women's race, but when we really needed to see the front 3 of the men's race, we either got to see amazing views of absolutely nothing, or the race for 4th.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Never count out Nino, goat.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

theMISSIONARY said:


> I was wondering what people were talking about with the Video work.... just watched the Mens, the Womens had far better camera work.


Really? Then it's no point to even start watching men's reply. Women's race was unwatchable due "amazing" camera positions and even more "amazing" director, and if men was even worse, then it's total waste of time for me.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

primoz said:


> Really? Then it's no point to even start watching men's reply. Women's race was unwatchable due "amazing" camera positions and even more "amazing" director, and if men was even worse, then it's total waste of time for me.


Depends on how much you enjoy the racing  , I love it, so even substandard viewing is worth watching


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I was wondering if there was some issue with cameras and/or drones. The women’s race could have been improved. But the men’s race was **** coverage…esp the last lap. It was like they were trying to fix something….but kept making it worse.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Depends on how much you enjoy the racing  , I love it, so even substandard viewing is worth watching


Watching racing on tv... not that much that it would be worth spending my time for something which would be even worse then already really bad coverage of women race.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Great races both men and women. I thought Nino’s career was over because the new Spark was inferior at 120/120 🙄. I was surprised to see that apparently he wasn’t locked out at the final sprint though. Looked like a lot of movement in the fork at the end.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Does a locked out fork really makes you faster?


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> Does a locked out fork really makes you faster?


That’s a current debate, but since Scott basically built their bike around the Twinloc I was just surprised it wasn’t fully locked out for a sprint on what appeared to be mostly a flat surface. If the surface is flat and the fork is bobbing that energy must come from the rider. In theory that’s energy not propelling your forward 🤷🏽.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

After each WC, I'm gonna do this, but no winners allowed...like Most Combative in Road Racing.

Ride of the Day:

Women: Kate! Yes...IMO, she had the ride of the day coming from such a bad start to finish on the Top 10.

Men: Still debating between the KMC dup pf Sebastian Fini and De Froidmont and Jose Gerardo Ulloa, who crashed hard into a tree and still finished with a very high placing.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

carlostruco said:


> Ride of the Day:
> 
> Women: Kate! Yes...IMO, she had the ride of the day coming from such a bad start to finish on the Top 10.


Looking for some perspective because I'm a hack:

Kate was 4+ min down on the winner. Certainly an amazing performance but still quite a bit off the lead. How much time does starting 4th row add to your time? If kate had been first row would she have gained a couple places?

From my perspective (source: I'm a XC hack), being forced to go slow in the first mins might not be such a bad thing cause it make for a more progressive pacing. Nothing makes me race worse than flooding my legs in the first 1 min of a race and I would imagine pro are similar. Would world cup XC racers go faster over all if they let up at the start and waited to make their moves later in the race when the course has opened up? This course seemed to have wide non-technical uphills that would make for easy passing. 

another way to think of it: If racing were an individual start TT how would racers pace it? I would gladly give up 45 seconds in the first 10 mins to gain 3 mins by the finish by steadier effort based pacing.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

xcskier66 said:


> Looking for some perspective because I'm a hack:
> 
> Kate was 4+ min down on the winner. Certainly an amazing performance but still quite a bit off the lead. How much time does starting 4th row add to your time? If kate had been first row would she have gained a couple places?
> 
> ...


I'm also a hack...

Some people blow themselves up going too fast from the start while others do well going from the gun. Yesterday was an example of all possible scenarios.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

MI-XC said:


> That’s a current debate, but since Scott basically built their bike around the Twinloc I was just surprised it wasn’t fully locked out for a sprint on what appeared to be mostly a flat surface. If the surface is flat and the fork is bobbing that energy must come from the rider. In theory that’s energy not propelling your forward 🤷🏽.


Oddly, i bought the new sid 32mm for my spark before the winter and also i bought separately the Scott-only 3p charger. Well, i tried 3 of those charger and all 3 having problems with lockout. Still waiting for the next replacement.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> Oddly, i bought the new sid 32mm for my spark before the winter and also i bought separately the Scott-only 3p charger. Well, i tried 3 of those charger and all 3 having problems with lockout. Still waiting for the next replacement.


I also bought a 32mm SID Ultimate and sent it into Rockshox to get the 3p damper installed. Even though Rockshox told my LBS they would install the Scott damper, someone must have overruled that decision because they told my LBS they only have 2 dampers total for the entire country! Those 2 dampers were going to be reserved for warranty claims and they wouldn't sell me one, so good luck! I had my LBS set up my fork with a bit of a hack as what was advised from the Rockshox rep. Since the current damper on the SID Ultimate is only 2 position (open/close), the middle setting of the Twinloc now only slightly dampens the fork to make it a bit firmer. It's close to the same affect as the proprietary Scott damper, but doesn't actually reduce the travel to 70mm. I doubt if I'll even be able to tell the difference but I haven't had enough rides on it to make a judgement. Well, I'm doing the Cohutta 100 next week so plenty of time to get a feel of the new fork.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

MI-XC said:


> I also bought a 32mm SID Ultimate and sent it into Rockshox to get the 3p damper installed. Even though Rockshox told my LBS they would install the Scott damper, someone must have overruled that decision because they told my LBS they only have 2 dampers total for the entire country! Those 2 dampers were going to be reserved for warranty claims and they wouldn't sell me one, so good luck! I had my LBS set up my fork with a bit of a hack as what was advised from the Rockshox rep. Since the current damper on the SID Ultimate is only 2 position (open/close), the middle setting of the Twinloc now only slightly dampens the fork to make it a bit firmer. It's close to the same affect as the proprietary Scott damper, but doesn't actually reduce the travel to 70mm. I doubt if I'll even be able to tell the difference but I haven't had enough rides on it to make a judgement. Well, I'm doing the Cohutta 100 next week so plenty of time to get a feel of the new fork.


I don't think there was ever a Sid that was reduced travel in the mid.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

The races were fun, but the video work was awful. I'd assume that they contracted locally with someone they'd never dealt with to produce it, and that the subsequent tour stops will be back the normal standard. It's hard to complain too much when it's free, and it's the high standard that we're used to that makes this coverage seem so weak. I felt bad for Rob and Bart trying to cover it when they couldn't even see what was happening. 

Nice to see McConnell finally get a win, and I was torn between wanting Marrotte to finally get one too, and Nino tying the record. It was going to be awesome either way.


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## 41ants (Jun 12, 2007)

Is this the last year that rebull will broadcast uci xco?


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

41ants said:


> Is this the last year that rebull will broadcast uci xco?


Yes, it will be GCN/Eurosport/Discovery next year.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ride of the day:
Women: Caroline Bohé. First became aware of her when she was a first year U23. Incredible climber with absolutely terrible technical skills. Has worked really hard and is now very strong everywhere.

Men: Maxime Marotte. I thought his time fighting for wins was over. But he fought all day and made what even looked like the winning move. I was definetly cheering for him at the end, even though I had picked Nino in the house pool.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MI-XC said:


> Great races both men and women. I thought Nino’s career was over because the new Spark was inferior at 120/120 🙄. I was surprised to see that apparently he wasn’t locked out at the final sprint though. Looked like a lot of movement in the fork at the end.


What I found interesting from an equipement side is how little of a difference it made. Vlad on his 60mm travel bike with a skinny flexy fork was dropping everyone on the descent and Nino and Maxine sprinted away from him on long travel XC bikes that should have struggle more than his bike on short steep climb to the finish.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> I don't think there was ever a Sid that was reduced travel in the mid.


All SIDs on Sparks do this.


*TRACTION CONTROL*
As mentioned, when you go from the fully open, descend mode into Traction Control mode, one air chamber is closed off, reducing the effective travel of the rear shock. This necessitates two changes- increasing damping and increasing the progressivity of the spring curve. Making one change without the other drastically reduces performance. The TwinLoc suspension system is the only system that can simultaneously change both spring curve and damping, leading to a ride that isn't harsh off the top and still provides incredible traction.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

This one also claimed for the rear shock! 
I'm quite sure the last two versions of spark sids are just making the damping harder but not reducing the travel! You can try with your bare hands if you have the charger out of the forks!


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> This one also claimed for the rear shock!
> I'm quite sure the last two versions of spark sids are just making the damping harder but not reducing the travel! You can try with your bare hands if you have the charger out of the forks!


I agree, I think Scott like to call it the "effective travel", meaning something to the effect of it feels/acts like it has less travel. Sounds like marketing BS, but this is what they say on their website... "Simultaneously, compression damping is increased in the fork in an effort to keep the bike well balanced."


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

MI-XC said:


> I agree, I think Scott like to call it the "effective travel", meaning something to the effect of it feels/acts like it has less travel. Sounds like marketing BS, but this is what they say on their website... "Simultaneously, compression damping is increased in the fork in an effort to keep the bike well balanced."


The most helpful is that the bike doesn't get too low when pedaling and it helps to avoid hitting obstacles with your pedals while you have some damping. Also you can have the full open mode a bit softer than öns two Mode bike.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

LMN said:


> Ride of the day:
> Men: Maxime Marotte. I thought his time fighting for wins was over. But he fought all day and made what even looked like the winning move. I was definetly cheering for him at the end, even though I had picked Nino in the house pool.


Quite same feelings for me also. I think Nino is the only one that was able to turn it in the last meters.. and also marrotte the only one able to loose the sprint that way😂


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Scott twinlock is just three compression settings. There is no mechanical link between the lock out lever and the airspring. So the simultaneous balancing is just the compression damping limiting travel.

Caroline Bohe, totally agree with LMN. She’s a talent to watch. She’s been learning from Anne and they all have a new performance coach. This new partnership is already reaping benefits. Anne and Caroline will be forces to watch in the European season. Nadine also.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> Scott twinlock is just three compression settings. There is no mechanical link between the lock out lever and the airspring. So the simultaneous balancing is just the compression damping limiting travel.
> 
> Caroline Bohe, totally agree with LMN. She’s a talent to watch. She’s been learning from Anne and they all have a new performance coach. This new partnership is already reaping benefits. Anne and Caroline will be forces to watch in the European season. Nadine also.


Speaking of which: it was nice to see Anne Terpstra do well. I was rooting for her. After she got passed, I thought she'd just fade away to 10th or something. It was good to see.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

But all in all, it was a good start for a season. Even with some strong riders missing because of health.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

xcskier66 said:


> Looking for some perspective because I'm a hack:
> 
> Kate was 4+ min down on the winner. Certainly an amazing performance but still quite a bit off the lead. How much time does starting 4th row add to your time? If kate had been first row would she have gained a couple places?
> 
> ...


Blevins was good example. Maybe it was the heat/humidity.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

arnea said:


> But all in all, it was a good start for a season. Even with some strong riders missing because of health.


I missed Jenny Rissveds and Emily Batty.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

westin said:


> I missed Jenny Rissveds and Emily Batty.


And Jolanda and Evie


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

It was like RedBull was having to use 3rd party footage for the race.
Did they have their own gear/people down there?


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## Danimal (Nov 18, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> It was like RedBull was having to use 3rd party footage for the race.
> Did they have their own gear/people down there?


Feels like that was the case last year, too. It might just be pool footage (I.e. multiple networks buy in to footage from the same crew). The TdF footage seems to be this way as well, so the commentators are only seeing what we’re seeing.

It was, indeed, very frustratingly directed during the men’s XCO race. Seriously, wtf!?

Dan


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

MI-XC said:


> Great races both men and women. I thought Nino’s career was over because the new Spark was inferior at 120/120 🙄. I was surprised to see that apparently he wasn’t locked out at the final sprint though. Looked like a lot of movement in the fork at the end.


It will wear him down over the course of the season. The rest of Team Scott was lackluster at best (just like last season) and they are probably the team with the biggest budget and some of the highest expectations.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Local boy Cam Jones 13th in the U23


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MessagefromTate said:


> It will wear him down over the course of the season.


He didn't finish the season well last year either.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

MessagefromTate said:


> It will wear him down over the course of the season. The rest of Team Scott was lackluster at best (just like last season) and they are probably the team with the biggest budget and some of the highest expectations.





NordieBoy said:


> He didn't finish the season well last year either.


i actually wondered if he targeted this race specifically. He’s talked a number of times about getting older and “can’t do this forever.” I’m sure he gets that he probably can’t maintain a full season…and maybe guys like MvDP, Pidcock, and Koretzky make a surprise appearance later on.

Maybe this was a “last, best chance.” He’s now the best ever…and can ride around the rest of the season with no pressure…doing a victory lap.

But also: I just made all of that up…but: maybe.😉🤷🏻‍♂️🤔


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

MessagefromTate said:


> It will wear him down over the course of the season. The rest of Team Scott was lackluster at best (just like last season) and they are probably the team with the biggest budget and some of the highest expectations.


It's not like Nino gave it a little more than everyone else because of the bike he's on. I'm pretty sure every rider out there (at least the top 10) gave it 100%. They each accumulated similar fatigue, regardless of the bike they're on. 

I must be missing the sarcasm in you comment.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Brad said:


> Scott twinlock is just three compression settings. There is no mechanical link between the lock out lever and the airspring. So the simultaneous balancing is just the compression damping limiting travel.


A lot of of confusion on twin lock here. I've had four bikes with Twonloc (2x Genius, 2x Spark) and they each operated as follows.

Open: Full travel front and rear, open compression damping (120 F / 120 R)

Traction Control;
-Front: No travel reduction w/ mid compression damping the cable only changes the damper setting.
-Rear: Reduced travel rear (80mm) by reducing air chamber volume. Increased compression damping. It DOES in fact close off part of the air chamber in the shock to reduce volume and travel. 80mm is approximate as it doesn't have a hard stop, but the high compression keeps it from achieving full travel in use.

Lock:
-Locked Damper Front 0mm w/ blowoff.
-Locked Damper Rear 0mm w/ blowoff, air chamber remains in the "traction control" volume.

Also lockout is percepitively faster in a standing sprint. I'm guessing he either didn't get it locked or something was wrong Nino's his cable tension or damper.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

brentos said:


> It's not like Nino gave it a little more than everyone else because of the bike he's on. I'm pretty sure every rider out there (at least the top 10) gave it 100%. They each accumulated similar fatigue, regardless of the bike they're on.
> 
> I must be missing the sarcasm in you comment.


There's no sarcasm intended I'm saying the collective fatigue of the 120mm chassis and fork will slow his results. It's hampered Kate Courtney's career, bearing in mind that she's smaller, lighter and produces less power.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

MessagefromTate said:


> There's no sarcasm intended I'm saying the collective fatigue of the 120mm chassis and fork will slow his results. It's hampered Kate Courtney's career, bearing in mind that she's smaller, lighter and produces less power.


Are you implying he acquired a higher TSS for this race than the other racers because he's on a 120mm rear travel bike. And that will aggregate over the year, slowing him down? I really don't think he put any more relative effort in that the other racers...my point being that they didn't hold back.

I'm just not buying it, I'd like a better explanation of the mechanism at play here. 

It is possible the team's overall performance was off later last year because of other factors...maybe even because they were adapting to a new bike, muscle memory is thing. But I certainly don't think you can conclude that the new bike is inherently slower or more fatiguing.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

MessagefromTate said:


> the team with the biggest budget and some of the highest expectations.


On the other hand, they have the rainbow jersey and the european champion jersey!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

brentos said:


> A lot of of confusion on twin lock here. I've had four bikes with Twonloc (2x Genius, 2x Spark) and they each operated as follows.
> 
> Open: Full travel front and rear, open compression damping (120 F / 120 R)
> 
> ...


Yes in rear shock it does close a bypass port in the air chamber but not the Fork since the air spring is in the other leg and that was the subject of discussion since it was moving an awful lot.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Brad said:


> How that last lap when we got a full view of the race for 4th while the win was shaping up to be Historical behind curtains.....
> FIRE THE PRODUCER


They managed to show the leaders more on the previous laps, then suddenly the final lap it all went to pieces and it was shaky cam of empty forest whilst Nino Schurter was attacking! Noooo

That final sprint was another one it was hard to judge because of the distant camera angle. It was a really fast downhill run in to the line, on some of the previous laps Nino Schurter was doing an aero tuck there and not pedalling, with what looked like a jump or drop shortly before the finish too. It might have been too rough or he didn’t have time to hit the lockout for the finish?


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Happy for Schurter, but I hope Maxime Marotte will eventually have a win too!

Imagine the career he would have had if he hadn't compete against Absalon, Schurter and Kulhavy who won almost all the World Cups?

Well, I got curious about which riders got the most "robbed" by the three, so I had a look at the World Cup results during the Absalon/Schurter/Kulhavy era (which I arbitrarily defined as the decade between 2010 and 2019), removed them and compiled a list of virtual winners:


*Rank**Rider**WC wins (real + virtual)*1Florian Vogel8 (1 + 7)2Mathias Flückiger6 (2 + 4)Jose Antonio Hermida6 (1 + 5)4Gerhard Kerschbaumer5 (1 + 4)Stéphane Tempier5 (0 + 5)Maxime Marotte5 (0 + 5)7Mathieu van der Poel4 (3 + 1)Burry Stander4 (1 + 3)Manuel Fumic4 (0 + 4)10Ondrej Cink3 (0 + 3)Lukas Flückiger3 (0 + 3)12Daniel McConnell2 (1 + 1)Christoph Sauser2 (0 + 2)Marco Aurelio Fontana2 (0 + 2)15Sam Gaze1 (1 + 0)Lars Forster1 (1 + 0)Ralph Näf1 (0 + 1)Victor Koretzky1 (0 + 1)David Valero Serrano1 (0 + 1)Anton Sintsov1 (0 + 1)Anton Cooper1 (0 + 1)


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

bananajoe said:


> Happy for Schurter, but I hope Maxime Marotte will eventually have a win too!
> 
> Imagine the career he would have had if he hadn't compete against Absalon, Schurter and Kulhavy who won almost all the World Cups?
> 
> ...


Fontana would have a Gold Medal!!! I wonder what would have happened if his seat post didn't break...3 up sprint?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Fontana would have a Gold Medal!!! I wonder what would have happened if his seat post didn't break...3 up sprint?


He was looking to be the strongest of the 3 on the day


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Jose Gerardo Ulloa's crash with...???????

Watch this story by Gerardo Ulloa Arevalo on Instagram before it disappears.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

brentos said:


> Are you implying he acquired a higher TSS for this race than the other racers because he's on a 120mm rear travel bike. And that will aggregate over the year, slowing him down? I really don't think he put any more relative effort in that the other racers...my point being that they didn't hold back.
> 
> I'm just not buying it, I'd like a better explanation of the mechanism at play here.
> 
> It is possible the team's overall performance was off later last year because of other factors...maybe even because they were adapting to a new bike, muscle memory is thing. But I certainly don't think you can conclude that the new bike is inherently slower or more fatiguing.


I guess we can agree to disagree, IMO the 120mm bike will slow the riders down. If Nino's results go down from here are you going to suggest that he now has a lower TSS? There's little point in arguing until the results play out, I'd bet you have a 120mm bike and so you are not likng what I am suggesting...


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Man what a great way to kick off 2022. Those were 2 of the best races that I can remember, and I'm so freakin' happy for Becca!

Half way through, if you would have told me she would be able to real in 34 seconds on last year's champ, and then pull away enough to completely enjoy crossing the finish line, I would've thought you bonked.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I don't think the 120mm bike has anything to do with Scott SRAM's lack of form. It is hard for any athlete in an aerobic sport to remain at the top for more than a few seasons. Once over 35 testosterone production slows down and recovery takes longer and more work has to be put in to maintain muscle mass.
The bike IMO isn't as good a handling bike as the previous model but nothing that can't be overcome with custom tuning which they have access to. 
poor form is just due to the riders either being usurped by the competition or they're just past their best. the bicycle at the end of the day s just a simple machine that won't determine a winner or loser unless something breaks


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

MessagefromTate said:


> I guess we can agree to disagree, IMO the 120mm bike will slow the riders down. If Nino's results go down from here are you going to suggest that he now has a lower TSS? There's little point in arguing until the results play out, I'd bet you have a 120mm bike and so you are not likng what I am suggesting...


damn if 2cm of suspension makes whole teams fail, imagine what would people do on hardtails, sounds like a free gold medal for anyone on HT!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

nya said:


> damn if 2cm of suspension makes whole teams fail, imagine what would people do on hardtails, sounds like a free gold medal for anyone on HT!


Gastro makes teams fail...


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Gastro makes teams fail...


Truth


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

nya said:


> damn if 2cm of suspension makes whole teams fail, imagine what would people do on hardtails, sounds like a free gold medal for anyone on HT!


So 140 would be fine too since it’s only 20 more than 120?


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

MessagefromTate said:


> I guess we can agree to disagree, IMO the 120mm bike will slow the riders down. If Nino's results go down from here are you going to suggest that he now has a lower TSS? There's little point in arguing until the results play out, I'd bet you have a 120mm bike and so you are not likng what I am suggesting...


I do not have a 120mm travel bike, I am on a 100mm travel Spark. I've also raced 120mm and 130mm travel bikes when I raced in a region with faster/rougher terrain. I am also not incredibly brand loyal, so my intent is not to defend the brand.

I am also not saying the bike is inherently equivalently speedy as the old. But I wouldn't expect it to result in increased fatigue over a season.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

peabody said:


> So 140 would be fine too since it’s only 20 more than 120?


It probably would be OK. Especially if it had a 3 position switch that allowed them to reduce travel to 100mm or lock it out on the fly. 

In my experience racing bikes of differing travels (HT, 100, 120, 130) bike fit, tire selection, and weight far surpass travel when it comes to affecting overall pace.

Sorry, I think I'm helping take us off topic...this discussion should probably be in the equipment thread...


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Fantastic WC racing! So stoked to see Nino get number 33.

And Bec getting her first win! She's been there or thereabouts for soooo long!


Massive shame Neff couldn't race, it seemed like a course built for her.

With regards the 120mm thing, I think that's a red herring. KC rode terrifically after being stuck behind the crash / a poor XCC showing. She's been off the boil for a while though, it's not like she dominated when she was on the HT last year. I will admit the small frames look funny with the longer travel. I don't think they are giving up any efficiency though with their specific tuning etc.

XC racing is so awesome right now. The level lifts every year!


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

nya said:


> damn if 2cm of suspension makes whole teams fail, imagine what would people do on hardtails, sounds like a free gold medal for anyone on HT!


Did I say "fail"? Quit being so dramatic. Let's watch the results over the course of the season. PFP also switched to the 35mm SID at 110mm. I'm suggesting the heavier stiffer chassis of that fork isn't helping. I'll watch the season play out.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I thought we weren't going to do any whacky gear and geometry debates in this thread this year.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> I thought we weren't going to do any whacky gear and geometry debates in this thread this year.


Why it’s WC related, fair game.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> So 140 would be fine too since it’s only 20 more than 120?


 Unlikely because that’s 40mm longer than the XC standard .
A 140mm travel bike will have a heavier fork, longer wheelbase, heavier frame etc.
I did try a Trigger in an XCO race a few years back and it wasn’t bad with XCO tyres but it was 2kg heavier than my race bike with a lot of trying and I definitely felt the added weight.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

MessagefromTate said:


> Did I say "fail"? Quit being so dramatic. Let's watch the results over the course of the season. PFP also switched to the 35mm SID at 110mm. I'm suggesting the heavier stiffer chassis of that fork isn't helping. I'll watch the season play out.


There’s not a lot of extra weight in the 35mm SiD. In real terms it’s about 70hr heavier. Not a big deal and as far as low speed compression goes it’s just as supportive as the 32mm SiD SL


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> There’s not a lot of extra weight in the 35mm SiD. In real terms it’s about 70hr heavier. Not a big deal and as far as low speed compression goes it’s just as supportive as the 32mm SiD SL


Still more travel, more movement, robbing energy and efficiency. At some point there is a tipping point on travel,weight,efficiency,geometry. Maybe Nino would be well past 33 wins if he kept on his old bike.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> Still more travel, more movement, robbing energy and efficiency. At some point there is a tipping point on travel,weight,efficiency,geometry. Maybe Nino would be well past 33 wins if he kept on his old bike.


he was past his best before the new bike came along.

As far as more suspension movement being less efficient I don't think it necessarily does and and the real answer is always in the realm of "it depends"....
I look at it from the perspective of what is the vertical displacement vs the forward movement. The vertical component is so small its negligible to the point where the forward movement is still considered to be translation.

Dylan also has a video on the topic: 




Peak Torque does another series of tests





Pyhsiological output is dfficult to measure but here with a fairly heavy longer travel bike between open and locked he is not seeing a difference in watts but does see a higher HR.
Bear in mind that the Scott is 80mm of travel (ish) in the mid setting I would suggest that its not costing the team any more calories than the bikes of the competition


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Back to the racing, and one hopes we return to Petropolis next season, and it becomes a regular stop. Just sort the cameras.


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> he was past his best before the new bike came along.
> 
> As far as more suspension movement being less efficient I don't think it necessarily does and and the real answer is always in the realm of "it depends"....
> I look at it from the perspective of what is the vertical displacement vs the forward movement. The vertical component is so small its negligible to the point where the forward movement is still considered to be translation.
> ...


Well then a mtb with rd tires should be competitive in road racing.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> Well then a mtb with rd tires should be competitive in road racing.


it comes with a 2.5kg weight penalty, aero penalty and is gearing limited so no it won't be.
but i you want to train on it that will be ok.
I used to fit 700c wheels to my CAAD 4 and CAAD5 hardtails back in the day when I could only travel with one bike but wanted to ride a road road on the same weekend as an XCO. The 560mm handle bars were far less limiting than todays 740mm bars from an aeero perspective and having a 46 or 48 big and 34 inne chainring for the road races helped with gearing. i as only limited for absolute top end in a sprint. The rest of the time it was fine.
Today's mtb's are more gearing restricted


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> it comes with a 2.5kg weight penalty, aero penalty and is gearing limited so no it won't be


Those can all be adjusted….weight doesn’t matter plug it into analytical cycling. You’re the guy that was arguing that a narrow crown fork(structure) would be stiffer than a wider crown, so this is pointless…


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

peabody said:


> Why it’s WC related, fair game.


Then I suggest we start a WC Equipment thread and take this kind of discussion there. I come here for one reason and one reason only, and that is updates on the races and the racers and background stories that pertain directly to those two things. A picture and description of the bike that they will be riding this year or any major updates are fine, but these philosophical discussions about equipment are off-topic and ruin the thread... IMO.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> Then I suggest we start a WC Equipment thread and take this kind of discussion there. I come here for one reason and one reason only, and that is updates on the races and the racers and background stories that pertain directly to those two things. A picture and description of the bike that they will be riding this year or any major updates are fine, but these philosophical discussions about equipment are off-topic and ruin the thread... IMO.


There is one already...


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

carlostruco said:


> There is one already...











2022 XCO-XCM Equipment


Have you sorted out that inward knee issue? The problem might actually be a weak gluteus medius. For me that is the issue, and actually the primary cause of the back issues I have been struggling on and off with. Cyclist are pretty famous for this issue. I recently wrapped up several...




www.mtbr.com





I agree, we should take this discussion there.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

brentos said:


> 2022 XCO-XCM Equipment
> 
> 
> Have you sorted out that inward knee issue? The problem might actually be a weak gluteus medius. For me that is the issue, and actually the primary cause of the back issues I have been struggling on and off with. Cyclist are pretty famous for this issue. I recently wrapped up several...
> ...


Thanks @brentos. I quickly scanned the sub-forum for one and all I saw was the XCM part.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> Those can all be adjusted….weight doesn’t matter plug it into analytical cycling. You’re the guy that was arguing that a narrow crown fork(structure) would be stiffer than a wider crown, so this is pointless…



sure they can when you do there isn't much of a performance difference. I know guys who have a 12min difference in finishing time over a 110km road course on a road bike vs a mtb with 2.25 tyres. On gravel tyres on the MTB the time difference came down to around 3-4min. The differences are aero and tyre related, and those are aero losses of the bigger tyres and added rolling friction and rolling resistance.

A narrower crown in theory should be stiffer since there's less torque on the steerer tube, that's physics. Engineering decisions lie where to place the material and how much to remove to reduce more weight skews that picture so not sure why you're whipping out old strawmen that has nothing to do with your view that a 120mm travel bike is making Scott SRAM slower.so lets confine the discussion to that shall we?


----------



## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> sure they can when you do there isn't much of a performance difference. I know guys who have a 12min difference in finishing time over a 110km road course on a road bike vs a mtb with 2.25 tyres. On gravel tyres on the MTB the time difference came down to around 3-4min. The differences are aero and tyre related, and those are aero losses of the bigger tyres and added rolling friction and rolling resistance.
> 
> A narrower crown in theory should be stiffer since there's less torque on the steerer tube, that's physics. Engineering decisions lie where to place the material and how much to remove to reduce more weight skews that picture so not sure why you're whipping out old strawmen that has nothing to do with your view that a 120mm travel bike is making Scott SRAM slower.so lets confine the discussion to that shall we?


Well except the steerer tube isn’t where the flex is coming from, that would essentially be fixed on a free body diagram of a 1 1/2” steerer. Have you seen a fork stress analysis and seen the hotspots, hint they are not at the steerer junction.


----------



## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

I was understanding that the "discussion" about equipment was being taken to another thread. I hate to be that guy but can we make that so? TIA.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Common guys, as said we have another thread for equipement. And yes, I am guilty of mentioning equipement in this thread.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> Common guys, as said we have another thread for equipement. And yes, I am guilty of mentioning equipement in this thread.


As I mentioned in my previous post, I for one have no issue with an occasional update on someone's equipment, I don't really keep up with the other thread... it's the rabbit-hole discussion that _centers_ on the equipment that follows that bloats this thread and makes it hard (not fun) to follow.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Back to racing...

Couple of C1 races in the USA next week within couple of days each other...WTH? Plus, American Continental Champs in Catamarca, Argentina two weeks after back to back World Cups. Too many races and so little time for people of this side of the world.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> Well except the steerer tube isn’t where the flex is coming from, that would essentially be fixed on a free body diagram of a 1 1/2” steerer. Have you seen a fork stress analysis and seen the hotspots, hint they are not at the steerer junction.


yes I have seen stress analysis renders for forks and where the stress is depends on the design. Again stop changing the topic, your point on 120mm forks or bikes being slower is just as flawed as all the other arguments you're trying skip around to like Skippy the Bush kangaroo.


----------



## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Brad said:


> yes I have seen stress analysis renders for forks and where the stress is depends on the design. Again stop changing the topic, your point on 120mm forks or bikes being slower is just as flawed as all the other arguments you're trying skip around to like Skippy the Bush kangaroo.


Are you guys doing it on purpose?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Back to racing...
> 
> Couple of C1 races in the USA next week within couple of days each other...WTH? Plus, American Continental Champs in Catamarca, Argentina two weeks after back to back World Cups. Too many races and so little time for people of this side of the world.


well we've still got a full season ahead till mid June
World Cup wise, Albstadt can't come fast enough. The 4 week break is enough for a swing of form amongst the main protagonists. Hopefully PB gets their act together with the fantasy league


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

LMN said:


> Common guys, as said we have another thread for equipement. And yes, I am guilty of mentioning equipement in this thread.


Which one?


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It will be interesting to see how Brazil effects form in May. Back in 2014 there was world cups in SA and Austrailia at the start of the season. A lot of people were really slow in May.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> It will be interesting to see how Brazil effects form in May. Back in 2014 there was world cups in SA and Austrailia at the start of the season. A lot of people were really slow in May.


This could turn out to be very interesting as those who came down sick in Brazil, will be coming back on form sometime down the road, so I expect to see a merry-go-round at the front.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> It will be interesting to see how Brazil effects form in May. Back in 2014 there was world cups in SA and Austrailia at the start of the season. A lot of people were really slow in May.


Maxi, Christopher, Lars, Nino, Haley, Pauline all rode Cape Epic too. This is the pool of riders to watch in terms of how form is affected by such a busy start to the season.
It shouldn't be a big deal, roadies do this all the time, but I'm not sure that XCO racers train for the same amount of endurance


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Maxi, Christopher, Lars, Nino, Haley, Pauline all rode Cape Epic too. This is the pool of riders to watch in terms of how form is affected by such a busy start to the season.
> It shouldn't be a big deal, roadies do this all the time, but I'm not sure that XCO racers train for the same amount of endurance


It was impressive to see the top two men, beside being two of the three oldest, both finished the Cape Epic only two weeks before. Apparently, Nino also managed to recover from the race while recovering from covid as well (Lars too):






N1NO wins 33rd World Cup | SCOTT-SRAM MTB Racing Team







scott-sram.com





That’s some amazing stuff.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> Maxi, Christopher, Lars, Nino, *Haley*, Pauline all rode Cape Epic too.


Did Haley race in Brazil??? I don't remember seeing her.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

jrob300 said:


> Did Haley race in Brazil??? I don't remember seeing her.


Yes, she was at the back...still hasn't recovered from her Cape Epic win. Nino and Maxi were not racing at the front of Cape Epic every day so in theory didn't go as deep as those vying for the win. The same can be said for Pauline.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> Yes, she was at the back...still hasn't recovered from her Cape Epic win. Nino and Maxi were not racing at the front of Cape Epic every day so in theory didn't go as deep as those vying for the win. The same can be said for Pauline.


Didn’t PFP win three stages?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## WithOrWithout87 (Jul 2, 2020)

Who else was glad to see Nino sit in and race conservatively instead of thinking he could solo off the front?


----------



## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Finally watched the men's race. When I watched the women's race, I didn't think the camera work was too bad, but with the mens, I see why you all complained. 

Anyway, I wonder whether Maxime Marotte could have won if he had waited to sprint for the finish. It looked like an amazing move when he did it on that little hill, but maybe too much slightly too early.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

celswick said:


> Didn’t PFP win three stages?


She won a couple stages I believe but she (or her partner) had her off days as well. She wasn't at the front every day for 8 days in a row like Haley.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Both Pauline and Robyn had off days. Pauline on stage 1 and 3 and Robyn on stages 5 and 6 with a stomach issue


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

I think Rebecca's win made the race. She has been doing better every season since Trek dropped her. Eat her dust now Trek!


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

The last week has been quite busy for me and I was late watching Petropolis so I'm late providing my input, but I know you were all waiting patiently for it so here it is 😁

Unfortunately I'll start with the most obvious fact: the live coverage was terrible. This race has been hyped for months and they did no justice to the course or the fans. The flashiest, most exciting feature of the entire track that EVERY single rider posted on their Instagram was not shown a single time in any of the four races - the big drop and the jump after it (sorry, can't remember the "official" name). Rob and Bart were clearly not on location, so it seems like Red Bull subcontracted the whole gig to a local Brazilian crew. They clearly lacked sufficient coverage on the ground, and they had a drone they could've used for some halfway decent overhead shots (especially of the final sprints), but instead they placed it a mile in the sky where you can see nothing and cut to it 2-3 times per lap to fill the gaps in coverage. I know how difficult it is to produce live events of this magnitude, but holy moly I hope Red Bull learned from this one. All they did was make everyone, myself very much included, more excited for GCN+/Discovery to take over next year.

Ok now on to less terrible things: I'm incredibly stoked for Nino. It's funny how many people (including maybe even himself?) had started to count him out the last few years. I was yelling at my wife that Nino needed to let Marotte or Dascalu come around him on that final climb so he can drop into the finish straight in second and sprint out of the slipstream just like Hatherly did in the short track - I think he heard me! The dude's an absolute legend and the raw emotion was beautiful. At the same time, I'm gutted for Marotte. Not sure how many chances he has left, but wasn't that the same argument for Nino for the last 2-3 years? Dascalu will have his day, he's young. Bummed for Avancini on his home turf but I can't imagine the pressure he felt. Also bummed to see Blevins drop back but Cape Epic does weird things to bodies - seems like it's either a huge befit or a huge detriment with no way to know which way the cards will fall.

The first half of the women's XCO race looked like it was going to be deja vu all over again, but Loana showed that she's actually human and wow what a ride by Becca. So deserved! I was nervous after Kate's bad XCC race, but she had a solid race the weekend before so I knew it was just a bad night for her. Glad she proved that in the XCO with an amazing charge into the top 10. Not being at your peak to start the season is never a bad thing IMO. Was hoping to see Batten in the top 10 too, but again, Cape Epic legs can go one of two ways. Not to mention all the sickness going around.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Rob and Bart were clearly not on location, so it seems like Red Bull subcontracted the whole gig to a local Brazilian crew. .


It is possible that this was not Red bull's decision. We don't know the details of their contract for this race. If they were NOT restricted by contract, then they chose very poorly. It was nearly as bad as watching FloBikes. The fact that they did not get the contract for next year, may have influenced their decision as well... we may never know.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> All they did was make everyone, myself very much included, more excited for GCN+/Discovery to take over next year.


I dunno. The coverage was terrible (esp. the men's race), but I won't let a one race glitch make me wish RedBull was getting the boot. Over the last few years, they've provided excellent coverage and Rob and Bart are great commentators...it's gonna be hard for Disco to top it.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> I dunno. The coverage was terrible (esp. the men's race), but I won't let a one race glitch make me wish RedBull was getting the boot. Over the last few years, they've provided excellent coverage and Rob and Bart are great commentators...it's gonna be hard for Disco to top it.


I agree. I have way more confidence in the track record of Red Bull than I have in a big question mark. I'm sure Red Bull is even more disappointed in the production last weekend than we are.


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

There may have been some restrictions associated with the rain forrest? I seem to remember Rob and Bart saying fans weren’t allowed by certain parts of the Forrest because it was protected. If true, cameras were likely restricted as well.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

teleken said:


> I think Rebecca's win made the race. She has been doing better every season since Trek dropped her. Eat her dust now Trek!


Not to mention Scott Aus and how cycling Aus has treaded them both  lots of egg on lots of faces


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

And a first win for Mondraker in WC XCO. They probably took the week off in Spain to celebrate 🎉


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## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Not to mention Scott Aus and how cycling Aus has treaded them both  lots of egg on lots of faces


You could substitute the McConnels for Aussie mountain biking in general and still not be wrong.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Just a though...why wasn't Bart with his team in Brazil? Aside his obligations with Red Bull, he is almost always present with his team.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> It is possible that this was not Red Bull's decision. We don't know the details of their contract for this race. If they were NOT restricted by contract, then they chose very poorly. It was nearly as bad as watching FloBikes. The fact that they did not get the contract for next year, may have influenced their decision as well... we may never know.


It's not the first time this has happened; 2019 World Champs from Monte St Anne; Rob did the commentary from the RB HQ in Salzburg, which I thought was strange. 

When they've produced so much great action for the sport, one wonders if the poor camera positions were really down to them; maybe they were restricted due to the rain forest regs.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

The theory I proposed in my long rant above was that Red Bull contracted the whole thing out to a local crew. Yes, Rob and Bart could've still traveled to Brazil and shot with the different crew but it may have just been easier for Red Bull to shoot with them in their European studio and not rely on the subcontractors to get that part right.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> The theory I proposed in my long rant above was that Red Bull contracted the whole thing out to a local crew. Yes, Rob and Bart could've still traveled to Brazil and shot with the different crew but it may have just been easier for Red Bull to shoot with them in their European studio and not rely on the subcontractors to get that part right.


This seems a little odd.... unless money was not the deciding factor. Money has never stood in RedBull's way.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I think restriction to some access due to protected rain forest seems like a good candidate, although why was it better some days than others? Maybe last-minute restrictions based on observed impacts. Although it is also hard to claim protection of fragile ecosystem while hosting 40k+ fans or however many it was.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

It's also super dense forest, there's only so much you can do with the cameras that are available, because the amount of visible is not huge with them.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

surely camera's on guide wires were possible...!!!??


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

lauren smith was on location


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

The actual picture quality seemed down a bit too to me. I had initially assumed it was subcontracted. It definitely didn't seem like the normal crew as they made a terrible choice of camera position on the XCC and improved for the XCO.

It's not unheard of, they had different production for a race last year (World Champs I think). 

Redbull have been pretty outstanding. I don't have a problem with GCN/Eurosport or whatever, but I am not over excited to have it behind another paywall, and likely they will have it geoblocked based on cable/terrestrial rights.

Enjoy free XCC/XCO coverage while we can 👌.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Red Bull subcontracted the 2018 Stellenbosch WC production to the event organisers media team that does the cape epic production, BigSjot media. So it’s entirely plausible they used a team appointed by The organisation that owned the event contract with red bull.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It's starting to make sense; remember the World last year in Val di Sole? During commentary, Rob kept mentioning that it wasn't RB pictures they were using, but the local production/hosts. Maybe World/ certain overseas events are subcontracted to the local organisers/hosts.

I'm willing to cut them some slack as they've done a stellar job for the sport. 

One hopes we get similar/better coverage from next year. And I do wonder if DH qualifying should be shown live - I think it probably should. And even the U23 races. If Discovery are going to do a better job, then that's one way of doing it.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I just watched the mens, and I saw nothing wrong really. They switched to a drone for that big drop off, and they kept up with the lead groups just fine. I think they showed the lower placed riders even better than usual. So no complaints from me. For a deep in the jungle type course, I dug it.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Mathias Flückiger and Filippo Colombo on the starting list of the Tour de Romandie in one week.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I just watched the mens, and I saw nothing wrong really. They switched to a drone for that big drop off, and they kept up with the lead groups just fine. I think they showed the lower placed riders even better than usual. So no complaints from me. For a deep in the jungle type course, I dug it.


Glimpses of riders through 20m of jungle?
Riders helmets over the top of the crowd?
Camera waiting for riders to appear at the bottom of a section?
High altitude drone footage?

It was as though they'd crowd sourced iPhone footage from people who'd never seen xc racing or the course before, were late to the event and had to stand back behind everyone else.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah... I was beginning to think maybe we watched two different races....


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Perfection is not realistic. I watched it straight through and knew what was going on just fine. I enjoyed it thoroughly. And I do a fair amount of video production myself. For a jungle setting, I liked it. Felt kind of wild. Man I bet that would be fun to ride. Scary for an old guy like myself, but some of those berns and jumps were awesome.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Perfection is not realistic. I watched it straight through and knew what was going on just fine. I enjoyed it thoroughly. And I do a fair amount of video production myself. For a jungle setting, I liked it. Felt kind of wild. Man I bet that would be fun to ride. Scary for an old guy like myself, but some of those berns and jumps were awesome.


It was definitely an awesome course! A shame it was dumbed down.

I think the "problem" is that RedBull have set an extraordinarily high bar for themselves. The coverage was great for a lot of races, but given how awesome the course looked (and how much we were looking forward to it), and how awesome their coverage usually is, it was subpar.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Back to racing...

Jenny Risveds won her first race of the season in Italy this past weekend. That probably means she's back in action and will race the next WC rounds.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Looks like MvdP has requested to ride the Giro to give himself a bigger base fitness; all his rivals have finished one, and he feels he's at a disadvantage. So, with the Tour, then Road Worlds as well, it's almost certain he won't be seen on a MTB this season.









Mathieu van der Poel: "Giro d'Italia gaat me beter maken voor de toekomst"


Lange tijd leek het erop dat Mathieu van der Poel vanwege hardnekkige rugproblemen niet aan een klassiek voorjaar mocht denken. Toch werd hij derde in Milaan-San Remo, won hij de Ronde van Vlaanderen en werd hij negende in Parijs-Roubaix. Nu richt hij zich op de Giro d’Italia. “Met het oog op de...




www.wielerflits.nl


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I sure I read earlier in the year that he was planning to ride the Giro since his rehab required that he miss much of the Spring Classics


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes, I recall there was a chance he would miss the classics (and people were losing their minds) - but in the end he managed to ride a few of them. I think he rode too many races in a short space of time, with a small base of fitness.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

bananajoe said:


> Mathias Flückiger and Filippo Colombo on the starting list of the Tour de Romandie in one week.


Mat Fluck has done this race quite a few times with a Swiss National Team


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Looks to be some decent racing in the US this weekend at Fayettville; seems the weather has got mixed up, and delivered the weather meant for the CX Worlds in January, and the XCC was postponed by a day due to rain.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

I guess it was also insane fast straight line winds that were the larger culprit.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

cal_len1 said:


> I guess it was also insane fast straight line winds that were the larger culprit.


It wasn't rain that postponed the races. The course was ridden yesterday by friends that were supposed to race. The entire expo area and start / finish area were spread across the ground. Anyone that didn't pack up their things the night before, lost them.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Anybody know of a way to watch the US Pro Cup if you don't have Flobikes? Asking for a friend.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Anybody know of a way to watch the US Pro Cup if you don't have Flobikes? Asking for a friend.


Unfortunately no.


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## KonaSS (Sep 29, 2004)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> Anybody know of a way to watch the US Pro Cup if you don't have Flobikes? Asking for a friend.


You are not missing much...... 

OK to have on in the background while I am working. But to me would be unwatched as a sit and consume the whole thing.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

KonaSS said:


> You are not missing much......
> 
> OK to have on in the background while I am working. But to me would be unwatched as a sit and consume the whole thing.


Do you have any friends racing? Some people do. But obviously you know best what others should do with their time.


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## KonaSS (Sep 29, 2004)

It was a commentary on the Flo coverage, not a commentary on anyone's life choices. Take a deep breath.....


----------



## Tyrone Shoelaces (Nov 6, 2006)

uintah said:


> Do you have any friends racing? Some people do. But obviously you know best what others should do with their time.


Jeeze dude...he wrote 'but to me...'...he wasn't telling anyone what to do with their time.

But here is 17 minutes of highlight video: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-and-video-2022-moosejaw-us-pro-cup-xco.html


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

uintah said:


> Do you have any friends racing? Some people do. But obviously you know best what others should do with their time.


Flo coverage is often technically unwatchable.


***SPOILERS*




Women Elite:

1. Savilia Blunk 1:37:22
2. Haley Batten +0:00:04
3. Kate Courtney +0:02:12
4. Gwendalyn Gibson +0:04:51
5. Ruth Holcomb +0:05:55


Kate Courtney's still off the pace. Why


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Tyrone Shoelaces said:


> Jeeze dude...he wrote 'but to me...'...he wasn't telling anyone what to do with their time.
> 
> But here is 17 minutes of highlight video: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-and-video-2022-moosejaw-us-pro-cup-xco.html


Which is why I "liked" his response. Some people can admit it when they read something incorrectly. Thanks for posting the video.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

FactoryMatt said:


> Flo coverage is often technically unwatchable.
> 
> 
> ***SPOILERS*
> ...


It'd be interesting to see her Power files. Though that's way outside of a Jim Miller's norm it appears.

She doesn't seem to have been _on_ the pace since she won the World Cup. There was mention of her trying something new, but it's so hard to tell if she's fallen back, or just the women's field has leapt forwards and she's not quite found that yet.


----------



## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

FactoryMatt said:


> Flo coverage is often technically unwatchable.
> 
> 
> ***SPOILERS*
> ...


Kate said on her IG that she had a front flat and was happy to have battled back to 3rd.


----------



## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

D Bone said:


> Kate said on her IG that she had a front flat and was happy to have battled back to 3rd.


yeah. 11th in the short track tho. and in the XCO her ending laptimes were off the pace. 


KC

Lap 100:04:5900:04:593rdLap 200:19:4800:14:494thLap 300:36:0800:16:195thLap 400:51:2700:15:184thLap 501:06:5500:15:283rdLap 601:23:0200:16:063rdLap 701:39:3400:16:313rd

SB

Lap 100:05:0200:05:028thLap 200:19:4800:14:463rdLap 300:35:0600:15:172ndLap 400:50:3300:15:272ndLap 501:06:1200:15:392ndLap 601:21:5800:15:451stLap 701:37:2200:15:241st


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

I just saw she got a stick in her RD today. She looked good on Sunday in Brazil, but so far nothing on home soil against a limited field.


----------



## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Kate Courtney's still off the pace. Why
[/QUOTE]

It's definitely not the bike, nothing to see here...


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

FactoryMatt said:


> yeah. 11th in the short track tho. and in the XCO her ending laptimes were off the pace.
> 
> 
> KC
> ...


She was off the pace in Brasil too...


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Blevins won the Short Track, and won with an attack on the same climb Pidcock attacked to win the CX Worlds. Maghalie Rochette won the women's Short Track.

A shame there was no European coverage from GCN/Eurosport; You Tube highlights will have to do.


----------



## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Brad said:


> She was off the pace in Brasil too...


In Brazil for Friday's short track no doubt, but on Sunday she started 40th and finished 10th, so I see a glimmer of hope there. She's had 2 mechanicals in 2 races this week so there's no way on knowing, hopefully she goes issue free tomorrow and then we'll know.


----------



## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Update on Milan Vader: Milan Vader is awake two weeks after heavy crash at Itzulia Basque Country - CyclingTips


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Update on Milan Vader: Milan Vader is awake two weeks after heavy crash at Itzulia Basque Country - CyclingTips


To find out his two week sedation was not due to head trauma is great news.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

D Bone said:


> In Brazil for Friday's short track no doubt, but on Sunday she started 40th and finished 10th, so I see a glimmer of hope there. She's had 2 mechanicals in 2 races this week so there's no way on knowing, hopefully she goes issue free tomorrow and then we'll know.


I think 9th for Kate? Not that it matters much. I think there are just more fast young women coming along and it has re-shuffled the pecking order a bit. There were a few years there where it seemed like the same handful of front runners every race. 

It was nice to see Mona Mitterwallner NOT go out and kill everyone with ease for her first world cup. She actually looked wiped out there at the end.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

uintah said:


> To find out his two week sedation was not due to head trauma is great news.


Great news!!


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

I finally watched the ST on YouTube, because I refuse to pay good money for the refuse that is pandered by FloBikes as coverage..... and sure enough. It was barely watchable.

Commercial moment with a side order of rant. I raced AMA Superbikes in the 80's. The peak of American involvement in national and international roadracing. Americans were kings here and abroad. But eventually that supremacy faded and there was much handwringing about our lack of competitiveness on the international stage... (I just watched a retired Italian MotoGP racer trash the best of our best at COTA this last weekend) but it comes down to two things. An excellent program with built in development and a clear path to national and international competition. And marketing, marketing, marketing. The best way to get kids on the path, is to let them see their heroes with great coverage. RedBull is leading the way here, but nobody else is even close. I wish they would take a greater role with domestic Road racing, XC and CX.

I think we might be in the best position in a very long time with a decent program (there's always room for improvement) but pathetic live coverage in the year 2022 is just not going to hook anyone. i don't know what the answer is... (paging Mr. Musk. Mr. Musk to the courtesy telephone!!! Cubic dollars couldn't hurt) But it certainly is not FloBikes.

Rant off...


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Anyone have todays Arkansas results handy? Curious how Kate did.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Max chaos going on in Arkansaw right now.


ShortTravelMag said:


> Anyone have todays Arkansas results handy? Curious how Kate did.


2022 US Pro Cup MTB - SAT, 04/23/2022 : : my.race|result


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Max chaos going on in Arkansaw right now.
> 
> 2022 US Pro Cup MTB - SAT, 04/23/2022 : : my.race|result


You mean packing up and getting out of there?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> You mean packing up and getting out of there?


I hate how unfinished posts get links in.

The lead into todays race was crazy.
This morning they decided to try and move the race up to today. To do so they had to get a hold of every racer. 2hrs before the race, they still hadn’t gotten ahold of 4 racers. The Race is officially cancelled. But wait, they finally do get a hold of them and at the last minute the race is back on.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Yeah, can’t say I’ve ever seen that happen anywhere. The Canadians sure had a good showing. The whole race had one of the best fields in ages I think. Felt like a real quality race. We’re there a fair amount of booths and trailers and all that?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> I finally watched the ST on YouTube, because I refuse to pay good money for the refuse that is pandered by FloBikes as coverage..... and sure enough. It was barely watchable.
> 
> Commercial moment with a side order of rant. I raced AMA Superbikes in the 80's. The peak of American involvement in national and international road racing. Americans were kings here and abroad. But eventually that supremacy faded and there was much handwringing about our lack of competitiveness on the international stage... (I just watched a retired Italian MotoGP racer trash the best of our best at COTA this last weekend) but it comes down to two things. An excellent program with built in development and a clear path to national and international competition. And marketing, marketing, marketing. The best way to get kids on the path, is to let them see their heroes with great coverage. Red Bull is leading the way here, but nobody else is even close. I wish they would take a greater role with domestic Road racing, XC and CX.
> 
> ...


I love to see a good rant. Good points; when you watch other sports, you realise where some sports get it wrong. There is a platform were races can be streamed, and it's free - and will likely get you more viewers; You Tube. Whoever is organising the US MTB Cup should have gone with another provider - as FloBikes aren't capable of providing the coverage required.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

ShortTravelMag said:


> We’re there a fair amount of booths and trailers and all that?


They were spread all over NW Arkansas Tuesday night.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> I love to see a good rant. Good points; when you watch other sports, you realise where some sports get it wrong. There is a platform were races can be streamed, and it's free - and will likely get you more viewers; You Tube. Whoever is organising the US MTB Cup should have gone with another provider - as FloBikes aren't capable of providing the coverage required.


FloBikes aren't the ones providing the coverage. It is the race organizor who provides the coverage and then sells it to Flobikes.

We have been very spoiled by the product that Redbull provides at WCs. I think many of us don't realize the extent that WC coures are designed for TV coverage. The course are built and designed in such away to a single camera position can cover multiple parts of the course. WCs also have a massive production team behind them.

Small races are just not going to have the same TV coverage. If you are expecting anything near WC quality you are going to be disappointed. That being said, I thought the coverage of Arkansas this was half-decent. The announcing was horendous but combination of drone coverage and fixed cameras wasn't bad.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Every race ive watched on FLO has been a buffer fest, incl world tour races.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Jordan Sarrou won the OKK Bike Revolution XCO in Chur today. Wasn't a terribly technical course but interestingly Nino came in 4th I think and looked properly poked at the end.
Alessandra Keller took the ladies with Anne Terpstra 2nd and Sina 3rd.
Anne is in great form


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Brad said:


> Jordan Sarrou won the OKK Bike Revolution XCO in Chur today. Wasn't a terribly technical course but interestingly Nino came in 4th I think and looked properly poked at the end.
> Alessandra Keller took the ladies with Anne Terpstra 2nd and Sina 3rd.
> Anne is in great form


We know it's not the bike, he just lost fitness two weeks later.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

MessagefromTate said:


> We know it's not the bike, he just lost fitness two weeks later.


_*You're* insert fishing reel gif_


Nino is the ambassador for this race and it's in his home town (huge time suck). There could be a fair few factors really.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> The announcing was horendous.


The announcing is not that bad if you mute the sound. Of course... then you have absolutely NO idea what's going on, as the leaderboard was more often wrong then right.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Anybody seen any course posts for Albstadt yet? Lots of the courses got technical changes/upgrades last year. It'll be interesting to see if it's ongoing/incremental.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Anybody seen any course posts for Albstadt yet? Lots of the courses got technical changes/upgrades last year. It'll be interesting to see if it's ongoing/incremental.


None but will ask around.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Tell me you don't anything about bike racing without telling me you don't anything about bike racing.


tate in bait caper 

if they cared to check through the results they would have noted that the bike that won is an Epic Evo which is 120/120, followed by 2 100/100's


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> Anybody seen any course posts for Albstadt yet? Lots of the courses got technical changes/upgrades last year. It'll be interesting to see if it's ongoing/incremental.


Didn't they make changes back in 2019?? and a few riders were critical.......

To be honest, whilst I like the technical challenges, not all courses have to be too technical. You do need variety, and Albstadt is a climbing course, so I don't mind it not being too technical.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

course profiles and route selection is out already but teams cannot disclose any information. I think this is a good thing as the event organisers don't want everyone running chaos on the course while its being set up.

2019 changes included wooden boardwalks over some of the steep rocky switch back areas to make it safer to descend. I think this had something to do with Fluckigers excursion into the woods after getting some jumps wrong. Lars Foster also bust his knee one year.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I'm wondering how many racers choose HT vs. FS in Albstadt. We all know it is a climbers course that favors de HT, but last year a guy on a FS with 115mm front travel placed second on a sprint...

Hopefully Mat Fluck gets his revenge back on this course...


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> 2019 changes included wooden boardwalks over some of the steep rocky switch back areas to make it safer to descend. I think this had something to do with Fluckiger's excursion into the woods after getting some jumps wrong. Lars Forster also bust his knee one year.


I think Fluckinger's crash into the trees was 2017, when battling with Schurter & MvdP. And I'm sure Forster's crash / crashes were in 2019, after both him and Nino went nuts at the start to try and blow MvdP, but it backfired.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> I'm wondering how many racers choose HT vs. FS in Albstadt. We all know it is a climbers course that favors de HT, but last year a guy on a FS with 115mm front travel placed second on a sprint...
> 
> Hopefully Mat Fluck gets his revenge back on this course...


I suspect that there are fewer and fewer racers who have a HT in their quiver. If I was at a race I would rather have my back-up bike as an identical FS instead of a HT.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> Didn't they make changes back in 2019?? and a few riders were critical.......
> 
> To be honest, whilst I like the technical challenges, not all courses have to be too technical. You do need variety, and Albstadt is a climbing course, so I don't mind it not being too technical.


As Brad said, I think the most recent Albstadt changes were for safety. Les Gets and Nove Mesto definitely made some technical improvements.

I want to see an element of technical riding in every single course. 

I'd like to see them add more difficult features with a more definitive difference when taking the B-Line. Make riders choose.

Mountain Biking is gaining massive popularity, and deservedly so, because of the increase in the capabilities of the bikes and the accessibility of technical riding.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

MessagefromTate said:


> We know it's not the bike, he just lost fitness two weeks later.


That bike already has multiple wins, Martin Vidaurre destroying the field in u23 with the same bike... oh sorry you are the PRO here.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mail_liam said:


> As Brad said, I think the most recent Albstadt changes were for safety. Les Gets and Nove Mesto definitely made some technical improvements.
> 
> I want to see an element of technical riding in every single course.
> 
> ...


Every course has an element of technical riding. If you compare Albstadt to Nova Mesto, Albstadt is way easier to ride. But a really good rider can create gaps on the descents on either course. Single track that isn't considered technical becomes highly technical when you try and ride it really fast.

And weather is a huge factor. In the wet Albstadt is extremely difficult and highly skilled riders have a massive advantage. In the web Nova Mesto becomes almost unridable in places and good runners have a massive advantage.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Every course has an element of technical riding. If you compare Albstadt to Nova Mesto, Albstadt is way easier to ride. But a really good rider can create gaps on the descents on either course. Single track that isn't considered technical becomes highly technical when you try and ride it really fast.
> 
> And weather is a huge factor. In the wet Albstadt is extremely difficult and highly skilled riders have a massive advantage. In the web Nova Mesto becomes almost unridable in places and good runners have a massive advantage.


I concur,
Albstadt in the wet is treacherous. It's steep everywhere and slippery with many sections of singletrack off camber most of the time. I got this info from riding there about 10 years ago.
trailforks has some detailed info on the course used the last few years: Note the gradients


https://www.trailforks.com/route/albstadt-world-cup-xco-course/#:~:text=Albstadt%20World%20Cup%20XCO%20Course%20is%20a%204%20km%20expert,m%20then%20descends%20%2D189%20m


.

nove Mesto na Morave isn't as steep but its still pretty steep. The roots make it difficult to ride fast and even when dry there's moss on the rocks making it very tricky to ride fast. It looks less technical but in reality its pretty scary in places. The Cannondale Stepped descent is not a place you want to make a mistake as the roots will snap your leg bones, arms and shoulder bones easily. 
That steep climb when you see some riders having to unclip and run if they make a mistake is really tough for anyone, let alone >5W/kg riders. Both Albstadt and Nove Mesto make maximum use of the available terrain to deliver really tough courses.
trailforks has some good info on the gradients involved: https://www.trailforks.com/route/no...p XCO Course is a 4 km,m then descends -155 m.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> Every course has an element of technical riding. If you compare Albstadt to Nova Mesto, Albstadt is way easier to ride. But a really good rider can create gaps on the descents on either course. Single track that isn't considered technical becomes highly technical when you try and ride it really fast.
> 
> And weather is a huge factor. In the wet Albstadt is extremely difficult and highly skilled riders have a massive advantage. In the web Nova Mesto becomes almost unridable in places and good runners have a massive advantage.


I don't disagree at all with that. I also think most of the riders, even the ones that look less skilled, are fantastic bike riders. The speed that they are riding adds a large amount to the difficulty of the course.

That was the disappointing thing about Les Gets the last two years. With the weather the way the course was "ridden" was completely different.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> I concur,
> Albstadt in the wet is treacherous. It's steep everywhere and slippery with many sections of singletrack off camber most of the time. I got this info from riding there about 10 years ago.
> trailforks has some detailed info on the course used the last few years: Note the gradients
> 
> ...


I walked both courses last year and the TV does covereage doesn't show how steep Albstadt is and how big the roots are at Nova Mesto.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> I walked both courses last year and the TV does covereage doesn't show how steep Albstadt is and how big the roots are at Nova Mesto.











Albstadt XCO Course Preview


Join Manuel Fumic for a lap around the Albstadt XCO course.




www.redbull.com





this video is from 2018 IIRC but it gives a sense of the gradients involved


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

Brad said:


> tate in bait caper
> 
> if they cared to check through the results they would have noted that the bike that won is an Epic Evo which is 120/120, followed by 2 100/100's


Epic Evo stock doesn't pedal well. Curious if the shock was custom. Would not want to race that bike. It is light though.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> Epic Evo stock doesn't pedal well. Curious if the shock was custom. Would not want to race that bike. It is light though.


I thought it didn't pedal too bad. Honestly even with a trail set-up I was fairly happy with it how it pedalled. A reasonable amount of low speed compression was required but not too much.


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## MessagefromTate (Jul 12, 2007)

Skarhead said:


> That bike already has multiple wins, Martin Vidaurre destroying the field in u23 with the same bike... oh sorry you are the PRO here.


No but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> tate in bait caper
> 
> if they cared to check through the results they would have noted that the bike that won is an Epic Evo which is 120/120, followed by 2 100/100's


Actually an evo is 110 out back, and I’d be curious to know if he’s using 110 on the fr.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

If you are talking about Jordan Sarrous bike he was running remote lockouts both front and rear. The fork is marked SID sl, EDIT: looking at more pictures of the fork it is a 35mm non-sl with sl stickers. combined with 110mm rear (unless they changed stroke length on the shock).

I have an Epic evo, I find it very sensitive to the correct settings on the rear shock. It is easy to get it really harsh or bottom out too easily. When it is setup correct it works really well without lockout.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

When some people talk about technical courses, they are talking about big jumps and drops. Those are fun to watch, but don't often separate the riders. Personally prefer to see rock gardens, series of tight, technical singletrack, roots, etc. in parts of the course since those are the techy features that let a rider make or close gaps.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> Actually an evo is 110 out back, and I’d be curious to know if he’s using 110 on the fr.


“Jordan Sarrou competes (and wins) with the S-Works Epic EVO without Brain

More tour for Jordan Sarrou. The Frenchman competed, and won, with the 110 mm rear travel S-Works Epic EVO

Whatsapp

Sarrou has chosen to use an Epic EVO

The Specialised Factory Racing team has taken a long time to debut, but it has done it in a big way. With a double victory in the event held in Albenga. As one of the most powerful equipment in the world, it is logical that every year they have new material, even ahead of what is already on the market. Jordan Sarrou set aside his usual 100 mm travel S-Works Epic to compete with the 110 mm rear travel S-Works Epic EVO without Brain.

Continue after the sponsors

RockShox SID front suspension with 35 mm bars and conventional SID Luxe shock absorber

Specialised has an Epic without Brain. It is the S-Works Epic EVO (also available in "conventional" non-S-Works version) that increases the rear travel to 110 mm and leaves aside the use of Brain. This bike, as standard, does not equip remote locking on the handlebars, but Jordan Sarrou has done so to be able to lock both suspensions in the race. Yes, the RockShox SID fork that he mounted in Italy is also not the model equipped with Brain technology. It equipped the RockShox, two-position lever remote control and the RockShox SID with 35 mm bars and 110 or 120 mm travel option. The shock absorber was a conventional RockShox SID Luxe, with the remote locking cable coming out to enter the frame shortly after.

In the S-Works Epic EVO, geometry not only changes due to the use of a longer-travelled fork, as is usually the case in most brands. The picture is completely different. Different measurement of pods and even different connecting rod for the suspension system. In addition to not having Brain itself. A different approach to the "Down Country" version (in this case we would say more "aggressive XC") of the mythical Epic.

Specialised S-Works Epic EVO by Sarrou

He was the only biker of the Specialised Factory Racing team to compete with the S-Works Epic EVO, since Gerhard Kerschbaumer and Sina Frei continued to rely on the S-Works Epic with their well-known Brain technology for suspensions.“

It’s not clear from this article at esmtb.com whether it’s a 110mm or 120mm fork. Pics from practice at Petropolis clear show it’s an Evo he’s riding. He must like the crap pedalling platform….
He’s using the under bar 2position twinloc. I’d have expected to see some prototype 3 position device there. Maybe it is…can’t tell from pics of if it’s a one click or two click lever


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## peabody (Apr 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> “Jordan Sarrou competes (and wins) with the S-Works Epic EVO without Brain
> 
> More tour for Jordan Sarrou. The Frenchman competed, and won, with the 110 mm rear travel S-Works Epic EVO
> 
> ...


You posted all that just to show it’s 110 travel out back like I said?🤔


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

peabody said:


> You posted all that just to show it’s 110 travel out back like I said?🤔


If you believe that and it strokes your ego then go right ahead


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Brad said:


> He’s using the under bar 2position twinloc. I’d have expected to see some prototype 3 position device there. Maybe it is…can’t tell from pics of if it’s a one click or two click lever


As far as I know there is only on and off on Rockshox suspension, no middle position. He probably runs the suspension fairly stiff, so he has a pedal position and a fully locked out to choose from 
He has a blip button in the left grip for the dropper, looks neat.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

mtballday said:


> When some people talk about technical courses, they are talking about big jumps and drops. Those are fun to watch, but don't often separate the riders. Personally prefer to see rock gardens, series of tight, technical singletrack, roots, etc. in parts of the course since those are the techy features that let a rider make or close gaps.


Agree, I think there is too much focus on what looks good on live stream, big drops are easier to film but often not very difficult technically. I would prefer courses where good riding technique makes a big difference but where the riders can crash without being out for the rest of the season afterwards. Albstadt looks quite difficult on some of the wooden downhill sections with tight turns and drops at the same time. I would not want to crash on that chicken wire with just lycra on.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Skier78 said:


> As far as I know there is only on and off on Rockshox suspension, no middle position. He probably runs the suspension fairly stiff, so he has a pedal position and a fully locked out to choose from
> He has a blip button in the left grip for the dropper, looks neat.


The SID Charger Race Day dampers they're running can be tuned to have a softer lock out position so in essence a firm compression tune and then the normal pedal position or make it more open. I asked the SRAM guys about a 3 position and they said its possible aka Scott. Just not sure if they can market it or if that's a Scott exclusive.The Scott twin chamber rear shock certainly is Scott only.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Skier78 said:


> Agree, I think there is too much focus on what looks good on live stream, big drops are easier to film but often not very difficult technically. I would prefer courses where good riding technique makes a big difference but where the riders can crash without being out for the rest of the season afterwards. Albstadt looks quite difficult on some of the wooden downhill sections with tight turns and drops at the same time. I would not want to crash on that chicken wire with just lycra on.


Definitely agree. I share the same thoughts with technical features I want to see.

It was the reason I was most excited to see the new Les Gets course and so disappointed it rained as it meant they couldn't ride it as much. 

It's also fun to see them hit gaps and jumps etc I guess too. The same ones with the most skill still get advantages there too. Just look at Neff in Brazil (practice race I know, but a lot of the girls couldn't carry the speed that the best could). 

I'm trying to remember the other course that ended up a bit sketchy that I was really looking forward to seeing them rail. The main part was a super off camber root section with a high and low line.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I’m with everyone who’s not terribly interested in big drops, but more techy, janky stuff. It’s what I think of as XC. I guess I think I ride XC stuff…and there are no big drops…but there’s plenty of roots, rocks, and slippery stuff. So I like to think of that as XC stuff.

maybe I’m really a “trail rider?”🤷🏻‍♂️🤣😂🤣


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Brad said:


> “Jordan Sarrou competes (and wins) with the S-Works Epic EVO without Brain
> 
> More tour for Jordan Sarrou. The Frenchman competed, and won, with the 110 mm rear travel S-Works Epic EVO
> 
> ...


Whatever happened to Jordan Sarrou at Petropolis?

I was thinking I didn’t remember seeing him mentioned and he’s not on the results list for either the short track or main XCO races, not even listed as a DNS?



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-xcc-short-track-petropolis-world-cup-2022.html





https://www.pinkbike.com/news/final-results-from-the-petrpolis-xc-world-cup-2022.html


.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

He was there, but came down with Covid-19 a few days before the race.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

LMN said:


> I thought it didn't pedal too bad. Honestly even with a trail set-up I was fairly happy with it how it pedalled. A reasonable amount of low speed compression was required but not too much.


I imagine it's similar to my new Blur - especially as my Blur has a 36t ring up front so less antisquat than designed. It benefits from the remote lockout when climbing at very high wattage out of the saddle (though it isn't strictly necessary) but everywhere else it gives amazing grip and traction with minimal pedal kickback.


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Skier78 said:


> If you are talking about Jordan Sarrous bike he was running remote lockouts both front and rear. The fork is marked SID sl, EDIT: looking at more pictures of the fork it is a 35mm non-sl with sl stickers. combined with 110mm rear (unless they changed stroke length on the shock).
> 
> I have an Epic evo, I find it very sensitive to the correct settings on the rear shock. It is easy to get it really harsh or bottom out too easily. When it is setup correct it works really well without lockout.


What settings are you using on the shock? I have the DPS and I’m still trying to get it setup better. I pedal strike way more on this S-Works Evo than my 2019 Top Fuel 9.9. I mainly like XC stuff and race occasionally.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> I imagine it's similar to my new Blur - especially as my Blur has a 36t ring up front so less antisquat than designed. It benefits from the remote lockout when climbing at very high wattage out of the saddle (though it isn't strictly necessary) but everywhere else it gives amazing grip and traction with minimal pedal kickback.


I've had the opportunity to try out both the US spec Evo (Rock Shox SID Ultimate + SiD Luxe ) with 2 position remote and the Fox 34SC + DPS equipped bike available in SA. Using my pals 100mm Brain S-Works Epic as a reference, I'd say the non brain bikes pedalled just fine. I didn't like the Brain bike. But I've never owneda Brain Epic and always had a bike with a 2 or 3 position damper. I reckon what you're used to pedalling is going to have some influence over what you prefer.
I didn't like the harshness of the Brain , the on off of it. The more active rear of the Evo just suits the terrain I ride better and my pedalling is adapted to this


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

EH1”40 said:


> What settings are you using on the shock? I have the DPS and I’m still trying to get it setup better. I pedal strike way more on this S-Works Evo than my 2019 Top Fuel 9.9. I mainly like XC stuff and race occasionally.


I have the Comp model with R.S Deluxe Select+, so it probably does not help you that much, but I have one large (2.5) and one small volume spacer, 188psi, rebound 5 clicks. So about 10 psi below recommended pressure from the Specialized suspension app, and removed one small volume spacer. I am 194cm, 79kg and ride an XL.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Folks, this should be a good thread but the current state of it is really off the rails. I sent a note to one of the site's supermods asking for them to take a look.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I still don't see the direct correlation between what a rider rides, and how successful, or not, they are at the World Cup level. These bikes are so close to each other, more so now than they were 20 years ago, that's for sure. I mean everyone uses the same 2 drivetrains, mostly the same 2 forks, everything is so similar. 10-20mm certainly can't be considered a game changer? The proof, for me, is the fact the Supercaliber wins just as well as the Scott. This in fact is what made me decide to just keep my "old" 2016 Top Fuel 100mm and work harder on training and my overall weight. 

Not to mention the strategy that the racers use. This is way more critical in my opinion. Blasting out front, sitting back in 4-5th place for most of the race, when you know your brain is saying "I can go faster right now"...all things that us mortals, myself specifically, as an older dude who's been racing every year since 1991, have learned matter as much or more than anything else. 

Watching Terpstra pick her way through slow and steady. Rebecca not panicking and keeping the eye on the prize. Remember a year or two back, when Avancini didn't go out front at all? He just stayed back there and finally gave it a go and won? Blevins? He pulled the perfect race at Snowshoe last season. I think that type of thing, the mental part, by far matters more. 20mm travel is just not important I don't think. Nino could do well with a hardtail I bet. The horsepower, and strategy, that's the ticket I think.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Any racing on this weekend coming? Italian or Swiss XC series?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Any racing on this weekend coming? Italian or Swiss XC series?











Mountain Bike calendar


Mountain Bike Calendar



www.uci.org





Have a squiz through the calendar. I don’t think any of the coming weekends events are televised or live-streamed


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I still don't see the direct correlation between what a rider rides, and how successful, or not, they are at the World Cup level. These bikes are so close to each other, more so now than they were 20 years ago, that's for sure. I mean everyone uses the same 2 drivetrains, mostly the same 2 forks, everything is so similar. 10-20mm certainly can't be considered a game changer? The proof, for me, is the fact the Supercaliber wins just as well as the Scott. This in fact is what made me decide to just keep my "old" 2016 Top Fuel 100mm and work harder on training and my overall weight.
> 
> Not to mention the strategy that the racers use. This is way more critical in my opinion. Blasting out front, sitting back in 4-5th place for most of the race, when you know your brain is saying "I can go faster right now"...all things that us mortals, myself specifically, as an older dude who's been racing every year since 1991, have learned matter as much or more than anything else.
> 
> Watching Terpstra pick her way through slow and steady. Rebecca not panicking and keeping the eye on the prize. Remember a year or two back, when Avancini didn't go out front at all? He just stayed back there and finally gave it a go and won? Blevins? He pulled the perfect race at Snowshoe last season. I think that type of thing, the mental part, by far matters more. 20mm travel is just not important I don't think. Nino could do well with a hardtail I bet. The horsepower, and strategy, that's the ticket I think.


100%…
The bikes are close enough. Knit picking on 90/100/110/120 is really just trolling for an argument. XCO bikes have a suspension tube that’s focussed on pedalling efficiency. The t could probably build a 200mm travel fork and rear shock that pedals well it would just need a wide range of settings. The bikes geometry to accommodate that much travel and the added weight resulting from the longer wheelbase and strengthening required would make it too heavy to race most likely but it could pedal well. At the end of the day the bike is just a tool to get the engine from A to B. As long as the suspension is efficient who cares if it’s 60/70/80/90/100/110/118 or 120
Niners RKT RDO is a great bike 
Giants older Anthem only had 90mm too. Great bike, won marathon world champs too…
Another thing that the knit pickers don’t consider is that most of those 100mm travel bikes aren’t exactly 100mm very few of the bikes rear suspensions deliver exactly what the marketing claims . Some are a little over their claimed travel , some a little under. To the point where buying a bike is more about what’s your favourite brand, and do they have a bike that meets my needs.
Oh and win on Sunday want to buy on Monday


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Jenny Rissveds is doing a 4 (5?) day stage race on the road 27/4 - 1/5. It is called Gracia Orlova tour, will be interesting to see how that works as preparation for the Albstadt world cup and also how she copes with the road racing.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

i disagree. when riders like Wout van Aert are complaining about one rigid CX bike (Felt) being slower than their old rigid CX bike (Stevens), there's more to it than that. Theres a massive difference between a supercaliber and a scott spark. everything matters. marginal gains.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Skier78 said:


> Jenny Rissveds is doing a 4 (5?) day stage race on the road 27/4 - 1/5. It is called Gracia Orlova tour, will be interesting to see how that works as preparation for the Albstadt world cup and also how she copes with the road racing.


Flueckiger is/was racing the Tour of the Alps too I think. He might be flying. Or playing the long game for season's end.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

FactoryMatt said:


> i disagree. when riders like Wout van Aert are complaining about one rigid CX bike (Felt) being slower than their old rigid CX bike (Stevens), there's more to it than that. Theres a massive difference between a supercaliber and a scott spark. everything matters. marginal gains.


There's plenty of space in the Equipment thread for this chat. You're right that the bikes are different, but they deliver gains in different areas. To say one is faster/slower than another is not about the amount of travel but the application of it


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> Theres a massive difference between a supercaliber and a scott spark. everything matters. marginal gains.


Two widely different bikes, yet both are world championship winning bikes.

The thing with bikes and parts in general is everything is a compromise. Improve in one area and it gets worse in another. And the differences are actually quite small. The ultimate descending speed between a supercaliber and spark is way closer than what people thing. It is almost like a thumb width of travel and 1/2 a finger lengh of wheel base doesn't actually make a big difference.

We see this all the time when bikes with a really big difference, like a HT and FS go head to head in a race.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> Two widely different bikes, yet both are world championship winning bikes.
> 
> The thing with bikes and parts in general is everything is a compromise. Improve in one area and it gets worse in another. And the differences are actually quite small. The ultimate descending speed between a supercaliber and spark is way closer than what people thing. It is almost like a thumb width of travel and 1/2 a finger lengh of wheel base doesn't actually make a big difference.
> 
> We see this all the time when bikes with a really big difference, like a HT and FS go head to head in a race.


It's also horses for courses. Neff and Cooper are too of the most skilled technically in their fields. I haven't seen enough of Dascalu or Ramos to know what their skill level is. Both have huge motors. Evie Richards is also a huge motor but had worked hard on her technical skills (and brought bike handling skills from CX and XC backgrounds).

Equally Nino is one of the most skilled and can gap most riders on the descents it seems.

Someone like Cink, or whomever, might not cope with the SuperCal travel and HTA.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

@LMN, not referring to descending speed really. they can both win, sure, but to call them fungible is wrong because not even rigid dropbar bikes are really that fungible at that level. it's hard to control for the bike, like in motorsports, because physiology is such a massive factor, but they are definitely not "pretty much the same".

a good rider can definitely mitigate the disadvantages of a less stable bike that has other positive efficiency attributes.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> It's also horses for courses. Neff and Cooper are too of the most skilled technically in their fields. I haven't seen enough of Dascalu or Ramos to know what their skill level is. Both have huge motors. Evie Richards is also a huge motor but had worked hard on her technical skills (and brought bike handling skills from CX and XC backgrounds).
> 
> Equally Nino is one of the most skilled and can gap most riders on the descents it seems.
> 
> Someone like Cink, or whomever, *might not cope *with the SuperCal travel and HTA.


 I would offer the words " might not be as confident" with ....

I say that because these guys are professionals and they work at adapting to the changes in their bikes. They will find a way to get that confidence back to be able to ride the bike at its limit far more than us amateurs. I have to ride the same trail multiple times to get a new bike set up properly till I feel confident to push it. The Pro's have a lot more time and dedicated mechanics to help them get it dialled.
As you say Nino works hard at his technical skills and Many of the riders have now been focussing on developing themselves in this space. Pauline has been training for Enduro and worked with some skills coaches in France and some folks out here in Stellenbosch. She has upped her game. Andrej Cink also, likewise Alan Hattherly and many many. Nino raised the game and the others are working just as hard at developing the equipment they have and themselves to be faster over the courses. One of the U23's here also races for Trek, this kid is fast. He has both the Top Fuel and SC. Uses his TF for training, it more forgiving and races his SC, he says its faster. Its hard to tell because neither bike is on the ground long enough to break a timing beam, or shall I say it's on the ground only for the purpose of changing direction. So he reckons his shorter travel bike is quicker over an XCO course. For training when he's out for 3-5 hrs...the TF. That says something


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FactoryMatt said:


> @LMN
> 
> a good rider can definitely mitigate the disadvantages of a less stable bike that has other positive efficiency attributes.


I agree but even to take another step further. To really take advantage of more capable bike requires a very high skill level.

Personal experience. I ride XC with a couple of world class enduro racers and on a short travel bike we are pretty darn close. But put us on long travel bikes and they absolutely leave me for dead.


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## FactoryMatt (Apr 25, 2018)

undoubtedly. but there is more time to be made in the power sections in an XC race.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> I would offer the words " might not be as confident" with ....
> 
> I say that because these guys are professionals and they work at adapting to the changes in their bikes. They will find a way to get that confidence back to be able to ride the bike at its limit far more than us amateurs. I have to ride the same trail multiple times to get a new bike set up properly till I feel confident to push it. The Pro's have a lot more time and dedicated mechanics to help them get it dialled.
> As you say Nino works hard at his technical skills and Many of the riders have now been focussing on developing themselves in this space. Pauline has been training for Enduro and worked with some skills coaches in France and some folks out here in Stellenbosch. She has upped her game. Andrej Cink also, likewise Alan Hattherly and many many. Nino raised the game and the others are working just as hard at developing the equipment they have and themselves to be faster over the courses. One of the U23's here also races for Trek, this kid is fast. He has both the Top Fuel and SC. Uses his TF for training, it more forgiving and races his SC, he says its faster. Its hard to tell because neither bike is on the ground long enough to break a timing beam, or shall I say it's on the ground only for the purpose of changing direction. So he reckons his shorter travel bike is quicker over an XCO course. For training when he's out for 3-5 hrs...the TF. That says something


Don't get me wrong. They're all absolutely incredible mountain bikers, you can't have low skill absolute on these courses at these speeds. Some are clearly more capable and more incredible than others though. No slight on Cink, or PFP, or Belamoona, all are hard workers and improve every year, but they aren't on the same level as Neff, or Cooper, or Koretzky etc. Blevins is another super technically skilled rider.

The thing I'm saying is that these riders would benefit more from a Spark than a SuperCal _potentially_ for example. Or that the SuperCal and Spark being under the winningest riders doesn't mean the bikes are equal overall. Those riders can compensate one way or the other more than some others might have been able.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I'm sure there is a difference between the supercal and spark. I just don't know which direction it goes. A lot of R&D time has been put into both bikes by some very smart engineers and riders. In the realm of marginal gains, it's really hard to predict which feature actually works versus which is just a placebo effect. Time can be made up so many ways on an XC course (climbs, descends, corners, flats, etc etc). Not only do you have to compare one marginal gain to another, but you have to aggregate all of them across all the sections of the trail. I know for a guy like me watching from a distance, it's impossible for me to do that accurately.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Hopefully I’ll be getting a new bike this year. 

I just need someone to tell me if I’ll be faster/better on a Spark, Supercaliber, Blur, or Epic Evo. Is that too much to ask?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

celswick said:


> Hopefully I’ll be getting a new bike this year.
> 
> I just need someone to tell me if I’ll be faster/better on a Spark, Supercaliber, Blur, or Epic Evo. Is that too much to ask?
> 
> ...


Get one of each 👌.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Okay. I've been in this thread once, kluerjr has been in here and deleted a metric boat load of posts. There is an equipment thread which is independent and separate of this thread, please feel free to use it and leave this discussion as the OP posted it.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

life behind bars said:


> Okay. I've been in this thread once, kluerjr has been in here and deleted a metric boat load of posts. There is an equipment thread which is independent and separate of this thread, please feel free to use it and leave this discussion as the OP posted it.


Thanks l-b-b, and thanks also to kluerjr for the housekeeping.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

All right world cup is a little over a week away.

Who is going well, and who is still suffering from Brazil Belly?

Men: I am going to go with Jordan S. for the win.
Women: Hard to look past Loana.

North Americans:
Top male: Chris Blevins with a podium ride.
Top female: Jen Jackson with a top 15.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

Men: Maxime Marotte - I just want him to win, he has been 2nd probably more than nino 1st...
Women: PFP


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

I'm going to call out the top 3 placings, but in no particular order:

Women - Terpstra, Lecomte, Mitterwallner
Men - Cink, Marotte, Dascalu

As for North Americans, hard to argue with Blevins as the top male, but I think we're going to see Gunnar Holmgren pushing into the top 20 or maybe even top 15 this year in a couple of events. I'll go with KC as the top finisher on the women's side.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

As Albstadt is a climbing course, I'd pick Lecomte, and providing she makes a good start, Mitterwallner. Also McConnell & Terpstra are bound to be there. As for the others I've no idea. Saying that, I was listening to a podcast and they mentioned Lecomte racing a bit smarter; riding off and winning by 1-2 mins doesn't get you any more points. For example, PF-P hid in the pack in the Short Track until the last lap, and made her move. 

As for the men, again, no idea. Schurter, Marotte & Dascalu, and as it's a climbing course Cink. Flueckiger if he's found some form (and is once again riding Tour de Romandie), and last year's winner Koretzky; if he's riding it, and isn't riding a road race.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> As Albstadt is a climbing course, I'd pick Lecomte, and providing she makes a good start, Mitterwallner. Also McConnell & Terpstra are bound to be there. As for the others I've no idea. Saying that, I was listening to a podcast and they mentioned Lecomte racing a bit smarter; riding off and winning by 1-2 mins doesn't get you any more points. For example, PF-P hid in the pack in the Short Track until the last lap, and made her move.
> 
> As for the men, again, no idea. Schurter, Marotte & Dascalu, and as it's a climbing course Cink. Flueckiger if he's found some form (and is once again riding Tour de Romandie), and last year's winner Koretzky; if he's riding it, and isn't riding a road race.


I've got money on Hatherley. provided he doesn't blow himself out in the XCC
Lecomte for the ladies race Mitterwallner 2nd


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> All right world cup is a little over a week away.
> 
> Who is going well, and who is still suffering from Brazil Belly?
> 
> ...


Did Chris Blevins have covid symptoms during or after the Brasil race? Half his tram was down and he was way off the pace. Testing negative could just have been a false negative


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Women: Jenny Rissveds
Men: Maxime Marotte

Based purely on who I wish would win


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Filippo Colombo is also racing on Tour of Romandie.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Dark horses for the podium:

Men: Jose Gerardo Ulloa
Women: Haley Batten

Winners:
Men: Cink or Fluck
Women: LL or Neff


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

Not sure about Cink, just read an interview with him, and he's hardly trained since Brazil due to illness. He's setting top ten as a success for himself.

I forecast a lot of Swiss success


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

It all feels rather unpredictable at this point, so I'm not predicting anything. Hopefully all the riders make the start line in good health.

As for equipment? Nearly 5k CDN for a Blur frame? Going to be a long, long time before I have to worry about adapting to a new bike. Lol.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

GSPChilliwack said:


> It all feels rather unpredictable at this point,


Yeah, I would say that Brazil is going to prove a monkey wrench for many reasons for some people's season


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Vamp said:


> Not sure about Cink, just read an interview with him, and he's hardly trained since Brazil due to illness. He's setting top ten as a success for himself.


There goes one of my picks for the podium. I'd like to trade Cink for Sarrou, so my new top 3 for the men in no specific order are Marotte, Dascalu, Sarrou.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

For the ladies, did we forget about Team Trek? I'll say they got illness out of their system and are well rested, so Evie and Jolanda will both be in Top4. I'll say Evie for the win...b/c she's the best! PFP and Lecomte.

Men: Avancini gets rid of a tiny bit of bitterness and Marotte gets another podium for SC. Shurter begins his "GOAT Tour" coming in comfortably in 6th...maybe 8th (but also, I predict he's resting to try and take another win later on to take sole possession of the record and any GOAT argument). 

NOTE: As always, I don't know what I'm talking about and I made up all of this in my mind.🙂


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Brad said:


> The SID Charger Race Day dampers they're running can be tuned to have a softer lock out position so in essence a firm compression tune and then the normal pedal position or make it more open. I asked the SRAM guys about a 3 position and they said its possible aka Scott. Just not sure if they can market it or if that's a Scott exclusive.The Scott twin chamber rear shock certainly is Scott only.


Yes you can buy the scott charger, but good luck finding one in stock.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Skier78 said:


> Jenny Rissveds is doing a 4 (5?) day stage race on the road 27/4 - 1/5. It is called Gracia Orlova tour, will be interesting to see how that works as preparation for the Albstadt world cup and also how she copes with the road racing.


Big news in Sweden, was talking about it even on radio! First time for her?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

smartyiak said:


> For the ladies, did we forget about Team Trek? I'll say they got illness out of their system and are well rested, so Evie and Jolanda will both be in Top4. I'll say Evie for the win...b/c she's the best! PFP and Lecomte.
> 
> Men: Avancini gets rid of a tiny bit of bitterness and Marotte gets another podium for SC. Shurter begins his "GOAT Tour" coming in comfortably in 6th...maybe 8th (but also, I predict he's resting to try and take another win later on to take sole possession of the record and any GOAT argument).
> 
> NOTE: As always, I don't know what I'm talking about and I made up all of this in my mind.🙂


I'm betting Nino wins at least 2 more times this year. He has the skills, I think his mental state wasn't all that great the last few seasons. He needs to ride smarter, sit back and try to keep up with the lead group, then pounce. He wants that one more win. Tying Absalon was not the prize. Now he knows he's one away from the real record. 

Brazil was interesting, wasn't it. A few riders skipped it, and they aren't looking entirely nuts after all. Lots of travel for one race like that. And with 8 more races this year, maybe not that much of a season killer to skip one.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

As long as Pidcock , MVDP, and Victor Koretsky stay on road bikes Nino’s chances of 34 look better. If one if one or tWP of the younger guns find the winning formula he may have to settle for 33 but right now he’s chances don’t look too bad.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Recent instagram posts show Koreztky on his MTB; one assumes he's getting ready for some MTB racing.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> He was there, but came down with Covid-19 a few days before the race.


Thanks.

That must have been really frustrating to do all that travelling, only to get ill and not be able to start.

With the whole recovery from Covid thing it seems to vary a lot on how quick that is, even from a mild case. From people I know personally some have been seemingly fine and riding ok almost straight afterwards whilst others have been wiped out for a long time!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Agree about the recovery; we're all different, people get it and it affects them in differing ways. Wout had it days before Flanders, and missed 2 weeks of racing. Returned and seemed almost as good as before. Doesn't mean others will be the same; some have been floored by it.....


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)




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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Same Gaze returning to World Cup Racing


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Nino needs to ride smarter


Wait what?😂


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

I guess that's the question, does he or doesn't he? I personally consider the Nino the GOAT. He's always been the most skilled out there, and I guess that's roughly comparative to aero advantage on the road. It's not the main thing, but it does make a difference in placings. I'd love him to get that last win to erase all doubt.

That said, does he have anything left at the end of the race to "pounce" in a sprint or is he completely tapped out just hanging in the top 10? That's what we saw last year, for the most part. The main thing in XCO is watts/kg over a ~90 minute period. It declines for all of us and is the most consistent predictor of race placings.

Nothing against him, it's just those last wins and championships are the hardest, chasing GOAT status in any sport. You're fighting father time who is undefeated, as Charles Barkely would say.





ShortTravelMag said:


> I'm betting Nino wins at least 2 more times this year. He has the skills, I think his mental state wasn't all that great the last few seasons. He needs to ride smarter, sit back and try to keep up with the lead group, then pounce. He wants that one more win. Tying Absalon was not the prize. Now he knows he's one away from the real record.
> 
> Brazil was interesting, wasn't it. A few riders skipped it, and they aren't looking entirely nuts after all. Lots of travel for one race like that. And with 8 more races this year, maybe not that much of a season killer to skip one.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I think he already is the GOAT, doesn't matter if he gets that one more win or not.

What people think, has Nino gotten slower over the years or have competiton catched up ?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Raikzz said:


> I think he already is the GOAT, doesn't matter if he gets that one more win or not.


This could potentially wander off-topic, but All Time is a long time. Nino and John Tomac lived in very different eras of XC, but the guy was a phenomenal cross-disciple bike racer with great bike handling skills for the equipment and courses of the day. In many ways, he and Ned Overend pretty much defined the sport. Nino exists today because of the trail blazing those guys did 30-40 years ago. Nino v. Tomac. That's an "in their prime" with similar equipment and course experience/training race, that I'd give money to watch.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> This could potentially wander off-topic, but All Time is a long time. Nino and John Tomac lived in very different eras of XC, but the guy was a phenomenal cross-disciple bike racer with great bike handling skills for the equipment and courses of the day. In many ways, he and Ned Overend pretty much defined the sport. Nino exists today because of the trail blazing those guys did 30-40 years ago. Nino v. Tomac. That's an "in their prime" with similar equipment and course experience/training race, that I'd give money to watch.


I'd say Nino. Like most sports: you can't compare eras. but generally modern era BLOWS AWAY prior eras. There's better training, better equipment, and more "full time" athletes. The competition against Nino is faster and deeper. Tomac was amazing and goat-like ...but Nino is the goat.

(Could Tomac have competed in the 2020s (b/c he'd be using modern equip and training)? Dunno...but the field is still deeper. I guess that's another reason we can't compare eras).


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

One thing that's sure is that Tomac family sure has great genes as Tomac Son is also in the mix for GOAT status


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> I think he already is the GOAT, doesn't matter if he gets that one more win or not.
> 
> What people think, has Nino gotten slower over the years or have competiton catched up ?


I think Nino's peak years were 2015 and 2016. Those years when he raced he was in total control, he rode with people until the 1hr mark and then would attack and win by a comfortable mark. The only thing that challenged him was a mechanical or the occasional race where Absalon would be back on top form.

In 2017 he did win every race, but his wins were not as decisive and his greatest rival retired at the start of the season. 

I do think that Nino is past his peak, on his great days he is still there but great days are getting further between and the less and than great days are a lot worse than they use to be.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

cycloholic said:


> Wait what?😂


Maybe that's the wrong word. I meant his old style of hammering off the front probably won't work so well anymore? I'm referring to the Nino of a few years ago, when he'd go off the front and just leave everyone in the dust. I was simply trying to say that he, or anyone, maybe can substitute a bit of that crazy speed, for a different style of racing. Smart, meaning simply not blasting off the front, but doing like Rebecca did in Brazil, where you work your way to the lead by the last lap. That's all I meant. It's no secret, that's a given.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Very few athletes (highly physical sports) can stay at the top for a very long time. As said before, Father Time always wins. But look at other sports like surfing (Kelly Slater 50yrs) and football (NFL- Tom Brady 44yrs) and you know its possible. There are a gazillion other factors like mental health that can affect the longevity of an athlete.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> I think he already is the GOAT, doesn't matter if he gets that one more win or not.
> 
> What people think, has Nino gotten slower over the years or have competiton catched up ?


Both


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Raikzz said:


> I think he already is the GOAT, doesn't matter if he gets that one more win or not.
> 
> What people think, has Nino gotten slower over the years or have competiton catched up ?


I think a little of column A, and a lot of column B.

Both men's and women's field's have taken huge leaps in terms of both quality, but especially depth.

I don't see Nino getting the next W in Albstadt, though he's done it before. I'd expect it to be at somewhere like Nove Mesto. He was still damn near fast enough to win in 2020 but for a couple of moments playing the wrong way. His form is significantly better this year than last assuming he has bounced back from the illness/travel/sponsor duties in Chur he could be in with a shout anywhere.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

cycloholic said:


> Wait what?😂


I kind of agree that Nino wasn't riding to his strengths/weaknesses last year. At least that's how I felt watching the races. His strengths vs his competitors are changing, and blasting off the front as he did in the past wasn't working. When the competition is closer, it seems a more efficient approach would net a better result.

I'm not saying he's not in the top .00001% when it comes to race tactics, but I didn't see the logic in his tactics last year because he didn't have the strengths to support that approach.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Well... If we're looking back I'd rate Ned Overend over Tomac as the GOAT. Tomac did establish the two major disciplines, both XC and DH, and I respect that. But Deadly Nedly, aka The Lung, had a freakish physiology. He's still racing!

You can't fairly compare eras. If Ned was young now and had the bikes and sports science, he'd be a beast. He was still winning semi-pro races in his 50s. I don't think Tomac had the same top-level physiology. Maybe he could've excelled in modern DH instead, but again, it's all about the watts/kg in World Cup XCO, you can either hang or you can't.









The Secrets to Staying Strong as You Age, with Ned Overend


Maintaining strong training on the bike while aging isn't as difficult as it may seem, as guest MTB champion Ned Overend illustrates. We will delineate what age effects truly exist — for example, a drop in maximum heart rate — and others that have been traditionally attributed to aging that now...




www.fasttalklabs.com


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

chomxxo said:


> Well... If we're looking back I'd rate Ned Overend over Tomac as the GOAT. Tomac did establish the two major disciplines, both XC and DH, and I respect that. But Deadly Nedly, aka The Lung, had a freakish physiology. He's still racing!
> 
> You can't fairly compare eras. If Ned was young now and had the bikes and sports science, he'd be a beast. He was still winning semi-pro races in his 50s. I don't think Tomac had the same top-level physiology. Maybe he could've excelled in modern DH instead, but again, it's all about the watts/kg in World Cup XCO, you can either hang or you can't.
> 
> ...


Friendly reminder that Tomac also raced forTeam Motorola on the road when very few Americans were racing in Europe like that. He was at least the equal of Ned from a physiology standpoint, and he had BMX-level handling skills. He changed the way they all raced when he came in because he could climb at least as well as the best and could descend like none of them could.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

chomxxo said:


> Well... If we're looking back I'd rate Ned Overend over Tomac as the GOAT. Tomac did establish the two major disciplines, both XC and DH, and I respect that. But Deadly Nedly, aka The Lung, had a freakish physiology. He's still racing!
> 
> You can't fairly compare eras. If Ned was young now and had the bikes and sports science, he'd be a beast. He was still winning semi-pro races in his 50s. I don't think Tomac had the same top-level physiology. Maybe he could've excelled in modern DH instead, but again, it's all about the watts/kg in World Cup XCO, you can either hang or you can't.
> 
> ...


As you say, super tricky to compare eras. If Ned was born in 86 maybe he'd have been as good as Nino. He wasn't and the I think based on the courses they used to race and the bikes, the riders are currently faster. The depth of field is greater now and Ned didn't win the same number of races in his own era. He was a pioneer, a massive motor, and dominant in North America, but I don't think he could be GOAT. I guess it's all down to the chosen metric.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

In my mind at least, guys like Ned and Tomac were trail blazers. They were the guys that broke new ground and estabilished the sport. Interestingly though if you actually look at their palmares they didn't actually win that much. Both have a world championship, but in my very short research time it doesn't look like either won a world cup overall or even a single world cup.

If we are looking at the early years and look without a north american bias ,Thomas Frischknecht is probably greatest male trail blazer. He was the silver medalist at the 1990, 1991, 1992, 2001WC and gold medalist at the 1996WC. Throw in an Olympic medal and he is without a doubt the greatest male XC racer from the early days. Combine that with what he has done after retirement and I would say there is a case that he is the most influential XC racer of all time.

Edit: I just saw that he actually was also the bronze medalist to the Les Ges WC in 2004. 

Greatest female racer from that early era, Alison Sydor. Greatest of all time Gunn Rita, but that could be changed to Jolanda Neff in a couple of years.

Of course this all my humble opinion.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

agree on Thomas Frischknecht (and one of those WC silver medals was later upgraded to a gold)
and add Juliana Furtado as she was great in both and XC and DH


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

And we can't have the conversation without laying Julien Absalon as the benchmark. The 33 WC wins is one metric but there's so much more.


2003: Absalon won his first UCI Mountain Bike World Cup.

2004: Gold at World Champions and the Athens Olympic Games.

2005: Absalon again won the World Championships.

2006: Winner at the World Championships, European Championships, French Championships and the overall World Cup.

2007: World Champion and World Cup Champion

2008: Won 2nd Gold Medal at the Beijing Olympic Games, World Cup Champion

2009: Number 1 World Ranking for all but 5 days of the year. Winner of UCI MTB World Cup for the 5th time, silver at the World Championships

2010: 2nd Overall at World Championships

2011: 3rd at the World Championships and World Cup

2012: At the 2012 Summer Olympics cross-country race, he suffered a tyre puncture in the opening lap. After changing tyre and noticing that he was trailing the leader by 55 seconds, he decided to abandon the race, seeing that his chances of winning a medal had disappeared.[2][3]

2013: Won European Championships

2014: Wins 5th World Championship title, French and European Championships. His season was cut short when, that November, he suffered a broken collarbone during a cyclocross race.

2015: Absalon wins the European Championships, French Championships, and finished second overall in the World Championships. Completed the season ranked world number 1.

2016: Finishes the Rio Olympic Games in 8th place.

He has been overall winner of the World Cup mountain bike cross-country series seven times (2003, 2006–2009, 2014, 2016) and has won a record 33 World Cup cross-country races as of 4 September 2016. He won five cross-country Mountain Bike World Championships (2004–2007, 2014). He has also won all fourteen French cross-country championships between 2003 and 2016, and five European Championships (2006, 2013–2016)


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Frischknecht was also a top class CX racer, as was his father Peter. In fact, I believe he rode the 1996 Olympic men's road race on a Ritchey CX bike....


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> And we can't have the conversation without laying Julien Absalon as the benchmark…


I hadn’t even considered those other guys when I originally posted…I just assumed the argument was Nino or Absalon🤷🏻‍♂️


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

LMN said:


> In my mind at least, guys like Ned and Tomac were trail blazers. They were the guys that broke new ground and estabilished the sport. Interestingly though if you actually look at their palmares they didn't actually win that much. Both have a world championship, but in my very short research time it doesn't look like either won a world cup overall or even a single world cup.


I don't think it's fair to criticize Overend for not winning a World Cup title, given that the MTB World Cup didn't start until 1991, when he was already 35, the same age that Schurter is now (and clearly past his prime). He was already 30 when NORBA really took off in the late 80's, so arguably already getting old for an XC racer and still was the dominant rider in North America as the sport developed. 

That said, I agree it's hard to place him among the greats given that the sport was so much smaller then and that he never had a chance to race at his prime. Certainly an important pioneer for the sport, as you said.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

LMN said:


> In my mind at least, guys like Ned and Tomac were trail blazers. They were the guys that broke new ground and estabilished the sport. Interestingly though if you actually look at their palmares they didn't actually win that much. Both have a world championship, but in my very short research time it doesn't look like either won a world cup overall or even a single world cup.
> 
> If we are looking at the early years and look without a north american bias ,Thomas Frischknecht is probably greatest male trail blazer. He was the silver medalist at the 1990, 1991, 1992, 2001WC and gold medalist at the 1996WC. Throw in an Olympic medal and he is without a doubt the greatest male XC racer from the early days. Combine that with what he has done after retirement and I would say there is a case that he is the most influential XC racer of all time.
> 
> ...


When John Tomac was in his prime the NORBA series was where the money and prestige was. He went to mountain bike racing from BMX full-time in 1986; in 1988 in 1989 he won the NORBA World Championship overall with the highest point total between cross country, downhill, and dual slalom. Granted, it wasn’t a true world championship because it was only a North American series, but plenty of the top international riders were racing in North America at that time because that’s where the money was. In 1990 he won the NORBA XC title; he would win in again in 1996 after 10 years at the top level.

Tomac also won the German and European XC titles in 1989.

Once the WC circuit became established, he won the overall in 1991 (two WC wins), then 2nd overall in 1992 behind Frischi (with two WC wins again). Second overall in 1993 as well, also behind Frischi.

When you factor in all of the downhill, dual slalom national and world championships he earned, as well as racing on the road for top level international teams like 7-Eleven and Motorola, I think it’s pretty obvious that he is in a different category than Ned Overend (who was admittedly amazing) and likely the best all-around racer of all time.

I mean, he raced Paris-Roubaix, the Giro, and Flanders! He was US Criterium champion and part of the National TT championship winning team. Dude could do it all at a crazy-high level.

DH World Champion and XC World runner-up on the same weekend…

People really forget after all these years how much this guy accomplished and how amazing it was to be so great at so many different disciplines.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

tommyrod74 said:


> When John Tomac was in his prime the NORBA series was where the money and prestige was. He went to mountain bike racing from BMX full-time in 1986; in 1988 in 1989 he won the NORBA World Championship overall with the highest point total between cross country, downhill, and dual slalom. Granted, it wasn’t a true world championship because it was only a North American series, but plenty of the top international riders were racing in North America at that time because that’s where the money was. In 1990 he won the NORBA XC title; he would win in again in 1996 after 10 years at the top level.
> 
> Tomac also won the German and European XC titles in 1989.
> 
> ...


Not to take away from how awesome Tomac was, but it highlights how hard it is to compare eras when we list his DH/XC chops. DH is a completely different game now compared to XC. Again, if he'd grown in the current era, he may have had the skill to do both, but more likely he'd have been a world class XC racer and not been able to qualify for the DH final runs (just based on how specialised and stacked the field is).

They were doing DH on what we would consider pretty sketchy bikes for XC, and the speeds were immense, and so was his bike handling. They weren't exactly technical in the modern sense though.

Again, I don't want to take away from his awesomeness, I just (personally) find it difficult to use the DH credentials to validate GOAT XC racer. 

If we're just talking GOAT mountain biker I bet the list of contenders gets super long and we'd be here forevermore debating the different rider types.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

I agree it's hard to compare eras. But judging by his gene pool, he probably could have been successful in either endurance or pure bike handling disciplines. His kid Eli can be on another level even compared to other elite motocross and supercross riders, which are sports that are closer to DH than XC. On his good days, he's simply untouchable even if the other guys are also having good days.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

mail_liam said:


> Not to take away from how awesome Tomac was, but it highlights how hard it is to compare eras when we list his DH/XC chops. DH is a completely different game now compared to XC. Again, if he'd grown in the current era, he may have had the skill to do both, but more likely he'd have been a world class XC racer and not been able to qualify for the DH final runs (just based on how specialised and stacked the field is).
> 
> They were doing DH on what we would consider pretty sketchy bikes for XC, and the speeds were immense, and so was his bike handling. They weren't exactly technical in the modern sense though.
> 
> ...


I agree, but I’d also point out that if you look at former BMX national champions – which he was, I remember seeing him also doing bike tests for BMX Plus! magazine as a kid… Would you think that they would end up being better downhill racers, or XC racers? I think he could’ve done either even in modern times and then an amazing racer. Heck, just look at his son racing motocross…

heck, look at his body type. The guy was 175 lbs at 5’10”. Does that sound like a modern XC racer build? I see a guy like that in that kind of shape, and I think he’s either a crit racer or a downhiller.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

tommyrod74 said:


> I agree, but I’d also point out that if you look at former BMX national champions – which he was, I remember seeing him also doing bike tests for BMX Plus! magazine as a kid… Would you think that they would end up being better downhill racers, or XC racers? I think he could’ve done either even in modern times and then an amazing racer. Heck, just look at his son racing motocross…
> 
> heck, look at his body type. The guy was 175 lbs at 5’10”. Does that sound like a modern XC racer build? I see a guy like that in that kind of shape, and I think he’s either a crit racer or a downhiller.


Absolutely he could have done either. I just mean he'd have had to specialise in one or the other, and my *ass*umption is that he'd pick XC. That might be my bias and maybe he'd pick DH for the money and sponsorship.

It might well be that he'd be a DH world champ/competing at the top, but not have the aerobic engine to compete with the XC guys these days. It's all guess work from me though.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

tommyrod74 said:


> I agree, but I’d also point out that if you look at former BMX national champions – which he was, I remember seeing him also doing bike tests for BMX Plus! magazine as a kid… Would you think that they would end up being better downhill racers, or XC racers? I think he could’ve done either even in modern times and then an amazing racer. Heck, just look at his son racing motocross…





mail_liam said:


> Absolutely he could have done either. I just mean he'd have had to specialise in one or the other, and my *ass*umption is that he'd pick XC. That might be my bias and maybe he'd pick DH for the money and sponsorship.
> 
> It might well be that he'd be a DH world champ/competing at the top, but not have the aerobic engine to compete with the XC guys these days. It's all guess work from me though.


Anyone who could be national criterium champion and race on the equivalent of a world tour Road team easily has the aerobic engine… The real question is, could he get down to a weight that would allow him to climb with the current guys. My guess is that with modern training and nutrition, he definitely could. If not, he would be one of the fittest DH guys.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

tommyrod74 said:


> Anyone who could be national criterium champion and race on the equivalent of a world tour Road team easily has the aerobic engine… The real question is, could he get down to a weight that would allow him to climb with the current guys. My guess is that with modern training and nutrition, he definitely could. If not, he would be one of the fittest DH guys.


I agree, my point is there's not a lot of chance he'd have been able to be at the very top of both XC and DH these days.

With modern training and his genetics he'd have been amazing at whatever he did choose.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

tommyrod74 said:


> Anyone who could be national criterium champion and race on the equivalent of a world tour Road team easily has the aerobic engine… The real question is, could he get down to a weight that would allow him to climb with the current guys. My guess is that with modern training and nutrition, he definitely could. If not, he would be one of the fittest DH guys.


If you look at MVDP and Pidcock. I think the unfortunate question (from the perspective of mountain biking) is just how much mountain bike racing he’d do at all. It’s clear where the biggest money is at the moment.

Also. Completely unbiased opinion. Nino is the GOAT in XC. (He’s also said himself that he’s past his prime.)


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

The elephant in the room here is Tomac ended his association with top level road racing when it became apparent there was something new going on in the peloton. Were it not for the EPO era who knows what he could have achieved. Fact is he did so much in all disciplines and had he focussed on any one of those that played closer to his strengths and build -I consider that to be XC - he probably would have more wins at the World Cup level than Absolon/Schurter.

ultimately it’s really impossible to gauge which of these riders would be better than the other as each needs to be considered within the framework of the sports as they were at the time they raced. Much has changed from the equipment to the sports sciences.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

I almost wrote the same thing. The dopers took over in the early to mid 90's. A lot of clean riders were robbed, and we will never know who was or was not clean, but conventional wisdom was that Tomac was clean. Frishi? IDK, maybe.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mtballday said:


> I almost wrote the same thing. The dopers took over in the early to mid 90's. A lot of clean riders were robbed, and we will never know who was or was not clean, but conventional wisdom was that Tomac was clean. Frishi? IDK, maybe.


You can never be sure anyone is clean. But within the sport Frischi is generally thought to have race clean. And that is far from true of everyone of that era.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

RexRacerX said:


> If you look at MVDP and Pidcock. I think the unfortunate question (from the perspective of mountain biking) is just how much mountain bike racing he’d do at all. It’s clear where the biggest money is at the moment.


Agree, and that doesn't seem likely to change. Koretzky & Vader have had road teams come calling....I really don't know what the answer is. I sometimes get the feeling people in MTB have just accepted that is how it is.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> You can never be sure anyone is clean. But within the sport Frischi is generally thought to have race clean. And that is far from true of everyone of that era.


generally, Mountain biking was always considered to be cleaner than road and often the outliers (as a result of EPO) were quickly spotted. There's less places to hide in MTB, its you against yourself and course. No shelter, no team buses, no motoman, teams operate on much smaller budgets and riders earn less so the ris of getting caught isn't outweighed by the relatively meagre rewards. If you're at the top of the game you will get tested whereas in road you can slip through the cracks till its out of your system and then race and test negative.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Agree, and that doesn't seem likely to change. Koretzky & Vader have had road teams come calling....I really don't know what the answer is. I sometimes get the feeling people in MTB have just accepted that is how it is.


The exposure of a PRo MTB team like SCOTT SRAM is much much lower than even a continental team like Team Qhubeka so there's ,much less sponsorship available. I don't know what the min salary is for MTB pro but for a World tour rider its $66,000 and around $44,000-00 for continental rider which I am sure, judging by how many Mid level Mtb Pro's hold down 2nd jobs, is far more than is available to these MTB pro's. For MTb to address this it has to address the number of events, duration of those events to get more TV time.

I would think there is an opportunity for the MTB teams to create a series that includes maybe X number of World cups + 4 week long Stage races and do away with the XCO and XCM classifications.
At Olympics level you probably want XCO and XCM races for men and women sort of equivalent to TT and Road races on the road. The UCi and the trade teams have to bring MTB up to the level of the road events.

For the XCM races there probably needs to be a team element as well but at the moment MTB has more in common with Cross Country running and marathon running than Road Cycling...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> generally, Mountain biking was always considered to be cleaner than road and often the outliers (as a result of EPO) were quickly spotted. There's less places to hide in MTB, its you against yourself and course. No shelter, no team buses, no motoman, teams operate on much smaller budgets and riders earn less so the ris of getting caught isn't outweighed by the relatively meagre rewards. If you're at the top of the game you will get tested whereas in road you can slip through the cracks till its out of your system and then race and test negative.


When I heard how rarely some high level pro-tour level racers were tested I was shocked. When Catharine was at her peak was test 20-30 times a year. And they would test her anywhere any time.


Once we were driving across Canada and they showed in the hotel we were staying at in the middle of no where.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Agree; exposure is what sponsors want. 6-9 World Cups isn't going to bring that, and we are seeing that currently. There are very few non 'bike industry' sponsors involved in MTB. 

Maybe that is why the coverage is moving from RB to Discovery/Eurosport; the UCI have plans for more events on a platform that is already known for road cycling.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> When I heard how rarely some high level pro-tour level racers were tested I was shocked. When Catharine was at her peak was test 20-30 times a year. And they would test her anywhere any time.
> 
> 
> Once we were driving across Canada and they showed in the hotel we were staying at in the middle of no where.


Because far fewer pro mountain bikers and therefore less resources required to track trace and test. USADA was also more militant than other agencies as was Canadian anti doing authorities I believe. Europe was always a little lax


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Exmuhle said:


> Agree, and that doesn't seem likely to change. Koretzky & Vader have had road teams come calling....I really don't know what the answer is. I sometimes get the feeling people in MTB have just accepted that is how it is.


I think those two will be interesting case studies. If they aren’t able to win/compete at a high level on the road, do they drop the discipline and return to MTB full time, or are the advantages on the road so good they keep it up? Assuming if everything else were equal, that everyone would rather ride mountain bikes first…

Hope Vader recovers okay. Road crashes like that are horrible.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Few XCO racers have tried their hand on the road,namely Miguel Martinez, Cadel Evans, Nino Schurter, Christoph Sauser, Philip Mierhage, Jakob Fuglsang, Christoph Dupoy and some bloke from Slovakia by the name of Petr Sagan (not sure anyones heard of him...)
Some have made a successful transition whiles others just never really cut it. I can'y see a pattern so perhaps its to do with commitment, coaching, right team and a bit of luck?
Of course we have the MVDP and Tom Pidcock more recently but the above guys who have either been highly successful at either road or MTb or rarely both.
Maybe someone more learned than I can see any patterns that can help further the discussion


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)




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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> Because far fewer pro mountain bikers and therefore less resources required to track trace and test. USADA was also more militant than other agencies as was Canadian anti doing authorities I believe. Europe was always a little lax


I am not sure what it is was like in the 90s and early 2000s. I bet in both Canada and the US there was very little testing. Canada at that time had a doping problem on our mens side that wasn’t found out through testing.


Wide spread test didn’t really start until 2004


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Egan Bernal started as a MTBiker and won Silver and Bronze in Jr. World Champs. Froomey also started racing MTB. The list of Jr. MTB racers that get signed on the Pro Peloton is longer that we know. Quinn Simmons and Sepp Kuss are also two names that come to my mind.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Did Froome race MTB properly? I don't think it was of any decent standard; I've read he'd drop people uphill, but on the descents he's be caught.....

What usually happens Juniors will show promise, and the road people come calling; in the case of Sagan, Fuglsang, Bernal, etc and they're not seen again on a MTB (apart from Sagan's brief Olympic sojourn). 
Interestingly, Martinez has a son who is a promising road racer in France, as was his father before him. I don't really think Schurter was serious about moving to the road; his two road races in 2014; there was also a sponsor clash, as Orica-Greenedge where on Shimano groupsets, and he's a face of Sram.

Some won't be tempted by the road, as it can be pretty monotonous and one dimensional; and there is very little use for excellent technical skills.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> I am not sure what it is was like in the 90s and early 2000s. I bet in both Canada and the US there was very little testing. Canada at that time had a doping problem on our mens side that wasn’t found out through testing.
> 
> 
> Wide spread test didn’t really start until 2004


ok i wasn't aware of that. the impression I had was that North America was more stringent (maybe not as stringent as today but more ) than the rest of the world. Doping is pretty much business as usual in sports like bodybuilding, Rubgy, and I'll bet Gridiron as well. Precious little testing in Football too.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Did Froome race MTB properly? I don't think it was of any decent standard; I've read he'd drop people uphill, but on the descents he's be caught.....
> 
> What usually happens Juniors will show promise, and the road people come calling; in the case of Sagan, Fuglsang, Bernal, etc and they're not seen again on a MTB (apart from Sagan's brief Olympic sojourn).
> Interestingly, Martinez has a son who is a promising road racer in France, as was his father before him. I don't really think Schurter was serious about moving to the road; his two road races in 2014; there was also a sponsor clash, as Orica-Greenedge where on Shimano groupsets, and he's a face of Sram.
> ...


Froome sucked at Mtb. I watched a few of his races . He really really sucked at Mtb. Crashed a lot


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> ok i wasn't aware of that. the impression I had was that North America was more stringent (maybe not as stringent as today but more ) than the rest of the world. Doping is pretty much business as usual in sports like bodybuilding, Rubgy, and I'll bet Gridiron as well. Precious little in Footbal


You don't think doping is rampant in soccer? By most accounts it seems to be one of the very worst for pushing steroids on young aspiring players. Like the NFL and NBA, they don't _want_ to have positive results either.

I don't recall North America every having a reputation cleaner than anyone else. Admittedly I was young in the 90's, but from the outside looking in during the 90's and 00's the USA was as had as any (athletics etc etc).

Interesting to mention Koretzky, he's more likely the current iteration of Tomac in terms of one of the best mtbers, but just one of many on the road side. MVdP and Pidcock are different beasts winning in the most prestigious arenas on both sides.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> You don't think doping is rampant in soccer? By most accounts it seems to be one of the very worst for pushing steroids on young aspiring players. Like the NFL and NBA, they don't _want_ to have positive results either.
> 
> I don't recall North America every having a reputation cleaner than anyone else. Admittedly I was young in the 90's, but from the outside looking in during the 90's and 00's the USA was as had as any (athletics etc etc).
> 
> Interesting to mention Koretzky, he's more likely the current iteration of Tomac in terms of one of the best mtbers, but just one of many on the road side. MVdP and Pidcock are different beasts winning in the most prestigious arenas on both sides.


Sorry meant to type precious little testing in football I.e doping is likely rife there too. Corrected typo


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> MvdP and Pidcock are different beasts winning in the most prestigious arenas on both sides.


And that's not including another string to their bow; both World Champions in CX.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

So gutted for Milan, just proof just how dangerous road cycling is compared to xc. 

Most folks think xc or even enduro is dangerous, but compared to road, it is peanuts. I've always, regardless of risk taking, felt way more secure on the trail vs peloton.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

and lets not forget the ladies. Pauline Ferrand Prevot is probably the GOAT of them all holding 3 cycling World Championship titles in one year, 2014/2015


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I feel she's often overlooked; possibly because of the road biased cycling media. However, the Road, CX & MTB World titles in 2014/15 is remarkable. Add in another two XCO titles, plus a XCM title, and you have a supreme all round talent. And I doubt she's finished just yet. There are more World titles to win.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

mail_liam said:


> You don't think doping is rampant in soccer? By most accounts it seems to be one of the very worst for pushing steroids on young aspiring players. Like the NFL and NBA, they don't _want_ to have positive results either.
> 
> I don't recall North America every having a reputation cleaner than anyone else. Admittedly I was young in the 90's, but from the outside looking in during the 90's and 00's the USA was as had as any (athletics etc etc).
> 
> Interesting to mention Koretzky, he's more likely the current iteration of Tomac in terms of one of the best mtbers, but just one of many on the road side. MVdP and Pidcock are different beasts winning in the most prestigious arenas on both sides.


IIRC, the US riders (as they were mostly outsiders looking in on the Euro road scene) were late to the “party” with regard to EPO. Took them a few years to catch on, then catch up (and even surpass) that aspect of doping culture.

Steroids, etc. helped with recovery, stimulants and depressants with pushing through pain-but EPO was the first drug to actually make a racer directly faster. When EPO came along the American riders were shocked at 170 lbs Euros climbing with the pure climbers… Lemond has spoken of this many times.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

tommyrod74 said:


> IIRC, the US riders (as they were mostly outsiders looking in on the Euro road scene) were late to the “party” with regard to EPO. Took them a few years to catch on, then catch up (and even surpass) that aspect of doping culture.
> 
> Steroids, etc. helped with recovery, stimulants and depressants with pushing through pain-but EPO was the first drug to actually make a racer directly faster. When EPO came along the American riders were shocked at 170 lbs Euros climbing with the pure climbers… Lemond has spoken of this many times.



At the risk of derailing the XCO thread again, I'll say I don't really believe Lemond was any cleaner than any of his contemporaries. It's hard to not be cynical of road cycling from all eras and I've been burnt too many times lol. Lemond is too "get off my lawn" for me to believe he's being genuine about any other riders. (My last post on the road cycling stuff).

Now, back to XCO. I'm just watching the Chur race. Whilst it's definitely not technical, it's a good watch with awesome coverage. They've done it like Cape Epic, except the video quality is world's better due to being in cell service.

Maxime and Nino are both there, but both not looking like controlling the race at all. They may both still be ripping in Albstadt with a bit more rest!


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Mona with a big win in Haiming, while Emily was 22nd and 1 lap down. I'm not sure if Em had a mechanical like her teammate Jenn did or if she was simply off the pace.

XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


----------



## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

D Bone said:


> Mona with a big win in Haiming, while Emily was 22nd and 1 lap down. I'm not sure if Em had a mechanical like her teammate Jenn did or if she was simply off the pace.
> 
> XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


^ Jimmy likes Elaine (some of you will, and some of you wont) 

Well to answer my own question, Emily went down pretty hard and jacked up her leg and rear rotor. Sounded like a couple of other mechanical issues as well.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

D Bone said:


> ^ Jimmy likes Elaine (some of you will, and some of you wont)
> 
> Well to answer my own question, Emily went down pretty hard and jacked up her leg and rear rotor. Sounded like a couple of other mechanical issues as well.


Great to see Ben Oliver up in the top 10 in the men's. Actually turns out to be a busy weekend with the different domestic (or whatever the correct qualifier is) racing. 

Lots of teams making their way across to Albstadt.


----------



## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

mail_liam said:


> At the risk of derailing the XCO thread again, I'll say I don't really believe Lemond was any cleaner than any of his contemporaries. It's hard to not be cynical of road cycling from all eras and I've been burnt too many times lol. Lemond is too "get off my lawn" for me to believe he's being genuine about any other riders. (My last post on the road cycling stuff.


I don’t necessarily agree with you, but even if I did, I think it’s fairly obvious he was never on Epogen. It was the generation coming in after him that really discovered and benefited from it. He was out before it was widespread, particularly among American racers. It was the tail end of his career that was marred by others using it.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

D Bone said:


> Mona with a big win in Haiming, while Emily was 22nd and 1 lap down. I'm not sure if Em had a mechanical like her teammate Jenn did or if she was simply off the pace.
> 
> XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


I am hoping Jen has gotten her mechanicals out of the way. They come in groups of three and she had two front flats and broken shifter.


----------



## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Jenny Rissveds ended up second in the road stage race she did, unfortunately had a crash one of the days where she lost some time (and some skin, hopefully nothing serious).

Victor Koretzky has confirmed that he will ride Albstadt and Nove Mesto:








Victor Koretzky returns to MTB and will compete at the World Cups in Albstadt and Nove Mesto


Koretzky confirms that he will be at the XCO World Cups in Albstadt and Nove Mesto.




en.brujulabike.com


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Good to see Koretzky back; and on instagram Pidcock had a photo of his MTB and a caption 'MTB soon'. We may see him earlier than expected, as he's not doing the Giro.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Good to see Koretzky back; and on instagram Pidcock had a photo of his MTB and a caption 'MTB soon'. We may see him earlier than expected, as he's not doing the Giro.


I saw it too...


----------



## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

With Bernal injured, Pidcock will go to the Tour now, so that begs the question of whether we will see him before, or after the Tour. My guess would be we don't see him at a world cup till after the Tour, but that's just my speculation.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cal_len1 said:


> With Bernal injured, Pidcock will go to the Tour now, so that begs the question of whether we will see him before, or after the Tour. My guess would be we don't see him at a world cup till after the Tour, but that's just my speculation.


He stated his main goal this year was get all three rainbow jerseys. One down, two to go!


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

We are starting to see more and more CX riders trying their hand at MTB world cups. It will be interesting to see how it goes for them, in the last 20 years people from other displines have really struggled in mountain biking. Prior to MVDP and Pidcock the most sucesful cross over was Nys, who managed to crack the top 10 a couple of times. Even on womens side Vos and Van der Breggen both relatively struggled with WC mtb racing.


----------



## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

mail_liam said:


> At the risk of derailing the XCO thread again, I'll say I don't really believe Lemond was any cleaner than any of his contemporaries. It's hard to not be cynical of road cycling from all eras and I've been burnt too many times lol. Lemond is too "get off my lawn" for me to believe he's being genuine about any other riders. (My last post on the road cycling stuff).
> 
> Now, back to XCO. I'm just watching the Chur race. Whilst it's definitely not technical, it's a good watch with awesome coverage. They've done it like Cape Epic, except the video quality is world's better due to being in cell service.
> 
> Maxime and Nino are both there, but both not looking like controlling the race at all. They may both still be ripping in Albstadt with a bit more rest!


thanks for mentioning the Chur race its available on youtube " ÖKK BIKE REVOLUTION Chur I Live-Stream"

the Women's XCO will be a real battle if all the players are fit for the race, I would love to see Bec on the podium again but I think it will be a very....shall we say "interesting" race 

I would like to see Nino get another win but I don't think Albstadt will be the course for him.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

theMISSIONARY said:


> thanks for mentioning the Chur race its available on youtube " ÖKK BIKE REVOLUTION Chur I Live-Stream"
> 
> the Women's XCO will be a real battle if all the players are fit for the race, I would love to see Bec on the podium again but I think it will be a very....shall we say "interesting" race
> 
> I would like to see Nino get another win but I don't think Albstadt will be the course for him.


Yes, great coverage with the E-bikes! Just needed some POV drones down through the alleyways and it'd have been best I've seen 😁. Had a Cape Epic feel with RedBull Quality.


I completely agree with you. I really want Nino to get the W, but I think he'll have a tall task of it with the level of everybody and two weeks for everyone to get right. I am hoping Sam Gaze can have a good result to get back into the XCC for Nove Mesto. And that Cooper can bounce back in a big way. Albstadt isn't technical enough to favour the Kiwi's really, relative the other riders strengths.

On the women's side. I have a feeling PFP might be good. She looked to have good legs in SA and but for being sick seemed strong in Brazil.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> We are starting to see more and more CX riders trying their hand at MTB world cups. It will be interesting to see how it goes for them, in the last 20 years people from other displines have really struggled in mountain biking. Prior to MVDP and Pidcock the most successful cross over was Nys, who managed to crack the top 10 a couple of times. Even on womens side Vos and Van der Breggen both relatively struggled with WC mtb racing.


Yeah, it's a completely different discipline. Being good at CX doesn't mean you'll be good at XC. The longer climbs, and far more technical courses can soon find people out. XC was a step too far for Vos who could win everything else on a bike.
In fact, as I've mentioned before, only a handful of riders have won World Cups in both disciplines. And only two riders have won CX, XCC, XCO World Cup races.....

Saying that, from a CX standpoint it will be interesting to see how the women's U23 pans out, with the possibility of 3 of the top 4 from the CX U23 Worlds taking each other on; Pieterse, Van Empel & Burquier.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Pidcock confirmed he will be racing the next two weekends...XCC and XCO races.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

3 more interesting riders to watch this week - Pidcock, Iserbyt and Koretzky , really looking forward what Iserbyt can manage, the Albstadt track should suit him and his 56kg quite well


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Iserbyt must be sick of the sight of Pidcock......


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Raikzz said:


> ...looking forward what Iserbyt can manage, the Albstadt track should suit him and his *56kg* quite well


Never met the guy. Don't know him. But I hate him.  I'm pretty sure that is the weight of my right leg.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

There is a little bit of panic entries happening right now. The UCI just announce the olympic national selection criteria and points start counting May 7th.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> There is a little bit of panic entries happening right now. The UCI just announce the olympic national selection criteria and points start counting May 7th.


Can you give the abridged version of how it works? Can a country secure multiple spots only competing (successfully) at World Cups and World Champs?


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mail_liam said:


> Can you give the abridged version of how it works? Can a country secure multiple spots only competing (successfully) at World Cups and World Champs?


There are a lot of layers to it.

Field size is 36, I believe, for mens and womens. 

The simplest one is for each country the top 3 UCI point earners over the next 2 years will count towards their olympic ranking points. The top 8 countries for men and women will get 2 spots each, the next 8 ranked countries will get one spot each. The rest of spots will be fill through continental championships and world championships, how that works is complex. 

(I don't have it front of me so my numbers are probably off)


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I am going to go out on a limb here. But I think everybody doing their first MTB race of the season is going to absolutely get their clock cleaned this weekend.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> Pidcock confirmed he will be racing the next two weekends...XCC and XCO races.





LMN said:


> I am going to go out on a limb here. But I think everybody doing their first MTB race of the season is going to absolutely get their clock cleaned this weekend.


What's Pidcock's current ranking? Is he in the XCC?

He's a big enough motor and enough of a talent to be there or thereabouts. As for Iserbyt, I wouldn't expect him to factor in a major way.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.




www.xcodata.com





Yes, he's racing the XCC. 

And don't forget the new rule where a rider ranked in the top 10 of another discipline gets to start on row 5 (33-40) for Sunday's XCO race.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Pidcock is probably getting away from the peleton for a while after being being “involved” in the big crash that sent Alliphilppe and others to the hospital at LBL. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> I am going to go out on a limb here. But I think everybody doing their first MTB race of the season is going to absolutely get their clock cleaned this weekend.


We've seen guys like Pidcock (and MvDP) race in a WC for their first MTB race of the season and absolutely crush it. Besides those two, everyone else could be pulled on 80% rule.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I’d have expected MvDP to make an appearance too wheee it not for some little race he’s starting in Hungary on Friday


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)




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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Thanks for that video. Man, I LOVE that the course is so rough and over grown. It looks like the trails near me in IL and WI. No perfect groomed 8' wide sections really. Grass and weeds and rocks. The trees don't even have leaves on them in many areas. Really cool. To me, this is an ideal mtb xc course. No fancy launchers, and crazy stuff, just natural looking roughness. This will be a good one I think.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

carlostruco said:


>


Great course preview video. Gave them a follow on IG and YT to help get to their 1000 goal.

It's a more nuggety course than it looks on TV. Especially the way Nino and Matthias etc can all ride it!


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Albstadt always looks none technical(a couple of odd obstacles ) with more climbing


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Anyone know where I can find the start list for the short track tomorrow?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Pink bike should have it up by 2pm CET tomorrow


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I just looked up the rankings, looks like Sam Gaze ought to squeak in as the 41st ranked rider and a few people not showing up.

He seems to have much better form than I'd have expected given his knee surgery. I don't know that he'd have the gas in the tank to compete for the full XCO (yet), but watch for him to possibly test the legs pretty hard in the XCC. He and Pidcock might move forward quickly.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

carlostruco said:


>


live valve?!


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

Looks like a lot of ladies on HTs for this race.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Super muddy out there today. Few places destroy bikes like Albstadt in the wet.

Catharine has been using my new XC bike all spring while we are waiting for her new one to arrive. After todays ride, I declaired that the bike she is using is hers, and the new one will be mine.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> Super muddy out there today. Few places destroy bikes like Albstadt in the wet.
> 
> Catharine has been using my new XC bike all spring while we are waiting for her new one to arrive. After todays ride, I declaired that bike she is using is hers, and the new one will be mine.


Apologies, I assume this is common knowledge, but who's your wife/partner? (As in what's Catharine's last name so I can watch for her)


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Apologies, I assume this is common knowledge, but who's your wife/partner? (As in what's Catharine's last name so I can watch for her)


haha, Pendrel, you won't find her racing this weekend though


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mail_liam said:


> Apologies, I assume this is common knowledge, but who's your wife/partner? (As in what's Catharine's last name so I can watch for her)


Pendrel.

But she retired from racing this year. She is now one of the Canadian National MTB coaches. Over there on a national team project.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> Pendrel.
> 
> But she retired from racing this year. She is now one of the Canadian National MTB coaches. Over there on a national team project.


Thanks. I thought that would be she. Also thought no harm in asking rather than make an ass off myself.


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## xcodata (Mar 14, 2021)

uintah said:


> Anyone know where I can find the start list for the short track tomorrow?


They just got published from the UCI.
You can find it here:









XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.




www.xcodata.com













XCODATA.com | Mountainbike results, statistics and rankings


The largest Mountainbike Cross Country (XCO) database: races, results, rankings, riders, teams, statistics and more.




www.xcodata.com


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

LMN said:


> I declaired that the bike she is using is hers, and the new one will be mine.


Living the dream.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Well...that was an awkward momento at the girls podium...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Wow Gaze just seems so wound up but in a good way.

another crappy sprint by Nino,


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I didn't see any of those wins happening! 

women's XCC other than leana lecomte it look like all the "main" contenders are in form,Men's will be interesting....so many names in the top 30


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Sam had his Wahoo computer down on his seat tube and not in his handlebar...mind games!!!


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Well...that was an awkward momento at the girls podium...


?


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

theMISSIONARY said:


> ?


I'm also confused.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Strange interaction from Jenny and PFP...maybe it was just me...but neither looked happy at all...


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> Strange interaction from Jenny and PFP...maybe it was just me...but neither looked happy at all...


Ah yes, the blown kiss didn't seem to be friendly.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Shame that Koretzky had fallen chain, and looked like Pidcock also had some little mistake before the start of last lap, but sunday should be fun!
EDIT: Pidcock fell on finish straight - Watch this story by ᵀᴼᴹ ᴾᴵᴰᶜᴼᶜᴷ on Instagram before it disappears.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

With Van der Poel winning the Giro d’Italian opener and Gaze winning the XCC it was a great day for Alpecin Fenix


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

LMN said:


> I am going to go out on a limb here. But I think everybody doing their first MTB race of the season is going to absolutely get their clock cleaned this weekend.


I think I might be wrong on this one


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Yee-freaking-ha.

Sam Gaze you beauty. I don't always agree with his attitude but he's a talent and it's so good to see the Kiwi's on top!


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Yee-freaking-ha.
> 
> Sam Gaze you beauty. I don't always agree with his attitude but he's a talent and it's so good to see the Kiwi's on top!


Ben Oliver did well too.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Just watched the replay. I told my wife that something bad happened to Pidcock, but it didn't get covered.... anybody know what happened to him???

SO happy for Bec!!! Especially beating PVP after her sitting in the whole race.... again.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

NordieBoy said:


> Ben Oliver did well too.


This makes me very excited. Ben is a weapon and it's so good to see him getting to mix it with the big boys 

I haven't watched it yet as I have been working and on dad duty. Hopefully Monday I'll catch up on the whole lot.

Go the Kiwi's!!


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Management of team Alpecin Fenix is a cindarella story. Sound decisions and long term vision, and sucess in all disciplines.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Just watched the replay. I told my wife that something bad happened to Pidcock, but it didn't get covered.... anybody know what happened to him???
> 
> SO happy for Bec!!! Especially beating PVP after her sitting in the whole race.... again.


He slid out on the last corner on lap 8


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> Management of team Alpecin Fenix is a cindarella story. Sound decisions and long term vision, and sucess in all disciplines.


Just like MovieStar!!!😬


😂🤣😂


----------



## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

AndrewHardtail said:


> With Van der Poel winning the Giro d’Italian opener and Gaze winning the XCC it was a great day for Alpecin Fenix


They actually had three wins yesterday, Lionel Taminiaux won a stage of 4 days of Dunkerque yesterday. Pretty impressive!


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

mail_liam said:


> Yee-freaking-ha.
> 
> Sam Gaze you beauty. I don't always agree with his attitude but he's a talent and it's so good to see the Kiwi's on top!


Rob commented in a roundabout way several times about Sam's troubles. I wonder if the team had him go through PR and media training upon signing.


----------



## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> I just looked up the rankings, looks like Sam Gaze ought to squeak in as the 41st ranked rider and a few people not showing up.
> 
> He seems to have much better form than I'd have expected given his knee surgery. I don't know that he'd have the gas in the tank to compete for the full XCO (yet), but watch for him to possibly test the legs pretty hard in the XCC. He and Pidcock might move forward quickly.


Catching up on this thread. This comment aged very well! What a race.


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

westin said:


> Rob commented in a roundabout way several times about Sam's troubles. I wonder if the team had him go through PR and media training upon signing.


what's been going on with same gaze?


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Knee injury if I'm right.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

arca_tern said:


> what's been going on with same gaze?


He's had a history of immaturity and pettiness, concussion and some long lasting effects from that, and just recently a tidy up on his knee as he was building up towards the World Cups (and competing in the road races).

I think, and hope, he's a wiser man now with a few years of experience. Definitely seems to be.

He's a massive talent and still relatively young.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Gaze is one of those complicated personalities, a product of a difficult childhood and blamed the world . He seems to have matured and worked on his demons to get them under control. It’s really good to see him so humble in victory whilst directing his emotions positively, chapeau


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

What does all that means? What he actually did?!


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> Gaze is one of those complicated personalities, a product of a difficult childhood and blamed the world . He seems to have matured and worked on his demons to get them under control. It’s really good to see him so humble in victory whilst directing his emotions positively, chapeau


He seems to be in a good place; in a team that believes in him, and supports him. I don't think he returned to NZ In the winter, and stayed in Europe, (I think there is a reason for that) and even fitted in a few CX races.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> What does all that means? What he actually did?!


I can't think of anything actually bad, only thing I saw was Commonwaelth games at Gold Coast, he got a flat half way through the last lap, Cooper (his countryman) and other guy put the hammer down, seemed to upset him, he went on a rampage of a lap caught and passed them to win, then at the finish he gave Cooper the finger (or maybe it was everyone).
That didn't go down too well.
There might have been more, don't know. 
Maybe he's just an intense guy, that comes across as a bit of a jerk.


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

What is up with Avancinis Albstedt tactics? Sprinting on lap 1 to stay ahead of Nino. Lap 2, 30+ sec back in 9th, acting out of energy.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Pidcock putting that Classics fitness to good use. Wow.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Could not wake up in time to watch the girls race, but I did call Ulloa a dark horse for the Top 10!!!

Men's Ride of the Day (not the winner): Hard to argue against Dascalu. He came back from a broken seta to place 3rd. 

Later, if my wife lets me, I will watch the Women's race. I already know Becca won (Rob said it during the Men's broadcast...)


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

TylerVernon said:


> What is up with Avancinis Albstedt tactics? Sprinting on lap 1 to stay ahead of Nino. Lap 2, 30+ sec back in 9th, acting out of energy.


I’m not sure what’s going on at cannondale. Alan isn’t making much progress either. He has to stop working with the coach that got him to the top ranks when he joined CFR and seems to be struggling to break through. Avancini similar.
Their tactics in Brasil and Albstadt wasn’t very smart either so something needs a kick up the back over there.

dasculu had a great recovery from that broken saddle but not sure How the commentators missed that he is using an AXS reverb which takes about 10sec to replace since the team will have have prepaired the replacement unit (see what I did there…)
At least the question on Neffs form is answered. That 6min in the warm up race was more about others taking it super easy rather than she being in super form


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Solid races today. Bec is on absolute top form and Picdock looks untouchable.

Other than Pidcock those who are doing a part time MTB schedule struggled.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Solid races today. Bec is on absolute top form and Picdock looks untouchable.
> 
> Other than Pidcock those who are doing a part time MTB schedule struggled.


Koretsky had a bad race. I never saw Iserbyt.

Kata Blanka Vas had a good race.


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> I
> At least the question on Neffs form is answered. That 6min in the warm up race was more about others taking it super easy rather than she being in super form


She was ill and haven't rode in weeks...


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Camera showed Batty getting pic taken by fans. Red Bull hat. Is she no longer racing, and is brand ambassador only?
Gaze looked fresh after Friday. Today was not his. Nor for Courtney, yikes.
edit: just saw Batty in results.


----------



## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Also...I find McConnell's interviews very well-spoken and honest especially when describing Jenny's race craft. Even had a weighty pause and smirk.


----------



## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Dascalu....he was 46 seconds down on the first check after his seatpost broke.

His 5th lap was monstrous, same time as Pidcock's 4th, attack lap.

Pidcock obviously took it easy the last one...but for me the winner for today is Vlad. He would be the only one possibly following Tom on his attack, although he seemed invincible. Nove Mesto will be very interesting.

Did his seat or seatpost broke?


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Batty actually ahead of Courtney…didn’t watch, did Kate have a mechanical?


----------



## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

Same question: Where is/ was Kate Courtney?


----------



## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

LMN said:


> Solid races today. Bec is on absolute top form and Picdock looks untouchable.
> 
> Other than Pidcock those who are doing a part time MTB schedule struggled.


It’s too bad that Pidcock just comes in and takes points away from the series racers. He’s fast but he needs to just win a series. It’s not really fair to cherry pick because you’re off for the weekend.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

MattMay said:


> Batty actually ahead of Courtney…didn’t watch, did Kate have a mechanical?


I heard she had a big crash and had problems finding her rhythm after that.


----------



## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

This is quite possibly my favorite picture of all time 😂😂


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

EH1”40 said:


> It’s too bad that Pidcock just comes in and takes points away from the series racers. He’s fast but he needs to just win a series. It’s not really fair to cherry pick because you’re off for the weekend.


It's fair...the strongest will win. I'd love to see a lot more racers crossing over disciplines. I hate it that MvdP's back issues have stopped him from doing the same.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

TylerVernon said:


> What is up with Avancinis Albstedt tactics? Sprinting on lap 1 to stay ahead of Nino. Lap 2, 30+ sec back in 9th, acting out of energy.


He did this in Brazil also. He needs to try something else out. 

Kate C. crashed and wasn't able to come back from it. As, much as I hate it, that seems to be the story of her racing career these last few years. Just when she is starting to perform she crashes and gets set back.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Goran_injo said:


> Dascalu....he was 46 seconds down on the first check after his seatpost broke.
> 
> His 5th lap was monstrous, same time as Pidcock's 4th, attack lap.
> 
> ...


Either saddle rail, or the clamp. It was dangling to the side of his post which appeared intact. 

Awesome work by the TFR mechanics. Super fast swap out. Beauty of AXS and no cables. I was curious (being a non-SRAM user) can you have two posts paired to the same remote? Or would it automatically pair?


----------



## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

cal_len1 said:


> This is quite possibly my favorite picture of all time 😂😂
> View attachment 1982820


This is my favorite pro-race pic I've taken:


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cal_len1 said:


> This is quite possibly my favorite picture of all time 😂😂
> View attachment 1982820


Yes, yes it is


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Pidcock looked like he had things in hand from the word go........ and he says he wants to win the championship...

Super happy for Bec.... also really sad to hear about the dissolution of their marriage. Coaching your spouse sounds like a really bad idea from the outset. But one would think that if you really wanted to work it out, you could navigate that mess, so probably more to it than just cycling. Super happy that her current coach is working out for her.


----------



## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I don't get the drinking from the shoe thing  I agree it's a bit sad about Bec and Dan but it's all too common these days.

lots of good racing all round 

nové mesto up next.... more tech less climbing


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Either saddle rail, or the clamp. It was dangling to the side of his post which appeared intact.
> 
> Awesome work by the TFR mechanics. Super fast swap out. Beauty of AXS and no cables. I was curious (being a non-SRAM user) can you have two posts paired to the same remote? Or would it automatically pair?


Yes you can have more than one post paired to the same rear derailleur (the brains of the system) thats why I said in a previous post it was prePAIRED 



jrob300 said:


> Super happy for Bec.... also really sad to hear about the dissolution of their marriage. Coaching your spouse sounds like a really bad idea from the word go. But one would think that if you really wanted to work it out, you could navigate that mess, so probably more to it than just cycling. Super happy that her current coach is working out for her.


I wasn't aware of this situation. I don't follow her (but fixed that) so had no idea and assumed she was still with Dan and being coached by him.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

theMISSIONARY said:


> I don't get the drinking from the shoe thing  I agree it's a bit sad about Bec and Dan but it's all too common these days.
> 
> lots of good racing all round
> 
> nové mesto up next.... more tech less climbing


I think its a Dani Ricciardo thing (aussie F1 driver)


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

Brad said:


> I think its a Dani Ricciardo thing (aussie F1 driver)


It's an Australian thing


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

meschenbruch said:


> It's an Australian thing


Can you elaborate as it’s a really weird thing as expressed by Mona Mitterwallner’s facial expression


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I'd give a gold medal to anybody willing to drink from my race shoe after a race.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

That's the thing...it isn't an Australian thing...nobody does it except Dan Riccardo...

But... then again...we have been getting blitzed by masterchef adds about the great aussie jaffle... nobody knows what a jaffle is...except apparently people from melbourne... so maybe the shoie is a thing...in melbourne land


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

I had assumed they had broken up as, he Dan is back here and Bec is over there... and she is winning world cups and he was...not mentioning it at all on the socials, so I assumed something was up. Sad for them, but it seems to have worked OK for her.


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Can you elaborate as it’s a really weird thing as expressed by Mona Mitterwallner’s facial expression


One origin of "shoot the boot" is rugby (not only Australian rugby). Generally, after scoring one's try, or when the party gets going as rugby parties do. Being that they were in Germany, however, there is also the reference to "das boot." Perhaps this was a bit of mixed inspiration.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mik_git said:


> I had assumed they had broken up as, he Dan is back here and Bec is over there... and she is winning world cups and he was...not mentioning it at all on the socials, so I assumed something was up. Sad for them, but it seems to have worked OK for her.


I thought Dan got 62nd (out of 113 finishers), 6:59s back from Tom Pidcock?


----------



## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

mik_git said:


> That's the thing...it isn't an Australian thing...nobody does it except Dan Riccardo...
> 
> But... then again...we have been getting blitzed by masterchef adds about the great aussie jaffle... nobody knows what a jaffle is...except apparently people from melbourne... so maybe the shoie is a thing...in melbourne land


Ah yeah fair enough then looking at ol' wikipedia (though some other websites suggest otherwise). I assumed it was Australian as it was the most common denominator when I saw someone doing it (Tai Tuivasa - MMA fighter, some Aussie cricket and AFL and NRL players)

Anyway, digression...


I was definitely surprised how minimally exhausted Pidcock looked at the end of the race and even during the racing. He's got a very good poker face if that isn't the case. Looks like he could definitely get 2 out of 3 world championships this year, the road one has the biggest question mark I reckon.


----------



## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

mik_git said:


> I can't think of anything actually bad, only thing I saw was Commonwaelth games at Gold Coast, he got a flat half way through the last lap, Cooper (his countryman) and other guy put the hammer down, seemed to upset him, he went on a rampage of a lap caught and passed them to win, then at the finish he gave Cooper the finger (or maybe it was everyone).
> That didn't go down too well.
> There might have been more, don't know.
> Maybe he's just an intense guy, that comes across as a bit of a jerk.


Threw the NZ flag at Cooper's feet on live tv, IIRC. As other have also said, I'm glad Gaze is overcoming his health issues and has control of his composure. The racing world is more interesting when he's competing.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I got asleep in the last two laps. If a big fan of MTB getting asleep while watching the sport then there is not a good indicator. Pidcock is like making joke of them.



mail_liam said:


> Either saddle rail, or the clamp. It was dangling to the side of his post which appeared intact.
> 
> Awesome work by the TFR mechanics. Super fast swap out. Beauty of AXS and no cables. I was curious (being a non-SRAM user) can you have two posts paired to the same remote? Or would it automatically pair?


Was wondering the same, trying to see if Dascalu can use his dropper! Although is not something difficult to pair, just long press dropper button, then long press shifter button, then one more simple press on the dropper,(10 sec for all pairing) i guess he could have done it himself also while riding.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> It's fair...the strongest will win. I'd love to see a lot more racers crossing over disciplines. I hate it that MvdP's back issues have stopped him from doing the same.


Absolutely! You can't force them, but more should be encouraged to give it a go. Which is one of the reasons for the new starting grid rule...


----------



## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

As a big F1 fan I loved seeing the Shooey hit the mtb podium.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Mathieu van der Poel neemt als mountainbiker een sabbatical


Mathieu van der Poel neemt dit seizoen een sabbatical op de mountainbike. De leider in de Giro d’Italia heeft in samenspraak met zijn ploeg Alpecin-Fenix besloten om zich dit jaar volledig op het wegwielrennen te focussen. “In 2023 is het wel weer de bedoeling om terug in de mountainbike-routine...




www.wielerflits.nl





As expected, no MTB for MvdP this season.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

mik_git said:


> That's the thing...it isn't an Australian thing...nobody does it except Dan Riccardo...
> 
> But... then again...we have been getting blitzed by masterchef adds about the great aussie jaffle... nobody knows what a jaffle is...except apparently people from melbourne... so maybe the shoie is a thing...in melbourne land


Apparently a “jaffle” is a closed toasted sandwich: 






What is a Jaffle? - Toastie Recipes


Find out what a Jaffle is, how it is made with a Jaffle Iron and the difference between a Jaffle and a toastie.




toastierecipes.com


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Either saddle rail, or the clamp. It was dangling to the side of his post which appeared intact.
> 
> Awesome work by the TFR mechanics. Super fast swap out. Beauty of AXS and no cables. I was curious (being a non-SRAM user) can you have two posts paired to the same remote? Or would it automatically pair?


It was a shame they didn’t show the actual change as I wanted to see what was done too.

This is the SRAM AXS compatibility map:










For a full bike there are multiple ways of putting it together. Combining everything you can start off with a master component, add a system component and then a system controller

Master = AXS rear derailleur
System = dropper post
Controller = left and right shifters

You can also do it as two separate AXS systems on the same bike, which is definitely how Scott SRAM have their bikes setup (they have two system controllers with a paddle shifter but also a blip box so it cannot be a combined system).

1. Master = AXS rear derailleur
1. Controller = right shifter

2. Master = AXS dropper seatpost
2. Controller = left shifter

In the Trek Factory Racing bike pictures they’re using the standard left hand AXS shifter so it’s not as obvious. With two separate systems and a standard left hand AXS shifter the quickest way to change the AXS dropper post would likely be to have a paired left hand AXS shifter and paired AXS dropper ready. The changeover would be to replace both the shifter and dropper, rather than messing around with pairing components. Its only a case of undoing two bolts, one for the seatpost and one for the shifter.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I haven't seen Dascalu use the replaced seatpost in a lowered position. Without zooming and by guessing on what would I do as a mechanic - I'd replace it with a rigid one.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Mathieu van der Poel neemt als mountainbiker een sabbatical
> 
> 
> Mathieu van der Poel neemt dit seizoen een sabbatical op de mountainbike. De leider in de Giro d’Italia heeft in samenspraak met zijn ploeg Alpecin-Fenix besloten om zich dit jaar volledig op het wegwielrennen te focussen. “In 2023 is het wel weer de bedoeling om terug in de mountainbike-routine...
> ...


Rule changes practically guarantees good race start position whenever he decides to race again which looks like 2023-2024.


----------



## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

meschenbruch said:


> It's an Australian thing


Dude I am Australian and I think it's gross and almost never seen or heard of it


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> I wasn't aware of this situation. I don't follow her (but fixed that) so had no idea and assumed she was still with Dan and being coached by him.


She dropped that bomb in the interview last night.... and from her body language acted like it was the first time they had said anything publicly... marriage status notwithstanding, it's very clear that she is benefiting from better coaching, and she seems delighted with the results... as she should be!  It's super cool to FINALLY see her getting results. 

Now... if we could just get Henrique a new coach and maybe a rev limiter to calm those little emotional outbursts of his....


----------



## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

Bec rode like a monster & I'll never get tired of posting that Trek is eating her dust now.

Also great Nino has had 2 good races it has to help him mentally as well keep the fear in competitors.


----------



## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

EH1”40 said:


> It’s too bad that Pidcock just comes in and takes points away from the series racers. He’s fast but he needs to just win a series. It’s not really fair to cherry pick because you’re off for the weekend.


I think it's too bad that he can come in and just dominate a race like that - I wish the full time XC racers would just beat him. But I don't see how it isn't fair - he's not coming in with any advantage other than incredible fitness and good skills, and he earned all of that. I still cheer against the roadies, because I'm a mountain biker, but the reality is that a number of the biggest talents will be in other disciplines because there's a lot more money - at least on the mens' side.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> I haven't seen Dascalu use the replaced seatpost in a lowered position. Without zooming and by guessing on what would I do as a mechanic - I'd replace it with a rigid one.


It could have been. I’m not sure.

Regarding the saddle that broke it was probably a Bontrager (Trek) own brand carbon railed saddle.

This article is Jolanda Neff’s bike, not Vlad Dascalu’s but it shows both the left hand AXS shifter attachment for the dropper and a Bontrager carbon saddle:









Bicis de los pro: Trek Supercaliber "campeona olímpica" de Jolanda Neff


La Trek Supercaliber que han personalizado para la campeona olímpica. Jolanda Neff, al detalle




esmtb.com


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

scottg said:


> I think it's too bad that he can come in and just dominate a race like that - I wish the full time XC racers would just beat him. But I don't see how it isn't fair - he's not coming in with any advantage other than incredible fitness and good skills, and he earned all of that. I still cheer against the roadies, because I'm a mountain biker, but the reality is that a number of the biggest talents will be in other disciplines because there's a lot more money - at least on the mens' side.


Competition improves the breed. The bar has been raised by the likes of MVDP and Pidcock and don't expect that to change.... look at all the roadies leaking into gravel racing. We can speculate as to why.... but the fact is.... that it is.

I think it would be really unfair to cubby hole Pidcock as a "roadie" if that is what you were insinuating. If anything, his real sport is CX, but he really is the prototypical "all-around cyclist" that can do literally anything on a bicycle at the highest level. The sport will be better for him... 

Now. If we can just get MVDP to come back and see more fireworks. I'll watch him road race if I have to, but I feel like his immense talents are misplaced... unfortunately, his sponsors appear to disagree with me.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Competition improves the breed. The bar has been raised by the likes of MVDP and Pidcock and don't expect that to change.... look at all the roadies leaking into gravel racing. We can speculate as to why.... but the fact is.... that it is.
> 
> I think it would be really unfair to cubby hole Pidcock as a "roadie" if that is what you were insinuating. If anything, his real sport is CX, but he really is the prototypical "all-around cyclist" that can do literally anything on a bicycle at the highest level. The sport will be better for him...
> 
> Now. If we can just get MVDP to come back and see more fireworks. I'll watch him road race if I have to, but I feel like his immense talents are misplaced... unfortunately, his sponsors appear to disagree with me.


Gravel racing seems to be a way of gently easing into retirement. It’s more riders approaching the end of their careers or whose road careers didn’t work out for some reason making the switch, eg: the Dirty Kansa 2021 top four finishers are all former road pros but then they also have some history behind them (Ian Boswell, Laurens Ten Dam, Peter Stetina, Ted King)

This Ian Boswell interview being a good example:









Ian Boswell: Thriving in a life beyond the Tarmac


Few professional riders, if any, become more famous after they’ve retired, but that’s exactly what’s happened to Ian Boswell since he romped to victory at the Unbound Gravel race last June. That 200-mile trek, set the picturesque Flint Hills of Kansas, is the blue riband event on the gravel...




www.rouleur.cc







https://www.athlinks.com/event/174195/results/Event/971897/Course/2067688/Results


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

WR304 said:


> Gravel racing seems to be a way of gently easing into retirement. It’s more riders approaching the end of their careers or whose road careers didn’t work out for some reason making the switch, eg: the Dirty Kansa 2021 top four finishers are all former road pros but then they also have some history behind them (Ian Boswell, Laurens Ten Dam, Peter Stetina, Ted King)
> 
> This Ian Boswell interview being a good example:
> 
> ...


At the risk of wandering off topic... I think that the Pro Peleton is a toxic environment that for the longest time was THE path for most of these guys. I hear the same story told different ways that all circle back to that. I don't see these guys necessarily "retiring" per se, but moving on to a scene that is more healthy for them and yeah.... maybe where they could win when they could not before.

Edit: NOT Pidcock and MVDP's motivation


----------



## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> Competition improves the breed. The bar has been raised by the likes of MVDP and Pidcock and don't expect that to change.... look at all the roadies leaking into gravel racing. We can speculate as to why.... but the fact is.... that it is.
> 
> I think it would be really unfair to cubby hole Pidcock as a "roadie" if that is what you were insinuating. If anything, his real sport is CX, but he really is the prototypical "all-around cyclist" that can do literally anything on a bicycle at the highest level. The sport will be better for him...
> 
> Now. If we can just get MVDP to come back and see more fireworks. I'll watch him road race if I have to, but I feel like his immense talents are misplaced... unfortunately, his sponsors appear to disagree with me.


How can his talents be misplaced if he just won an opening stage of the Giro, and Flanders, for the second time?

Problem statement here is that the guy has too many talents, same as Pidcock. 

Eli Iserbyt has just proven that wandering into XCO with CX talent and palmares may well result in mid pack performance.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Goran_injo said:


> How can his talents be misplaced if he just won an opening stage of the Giro, and Flanders, for the second time?


Misplaced is probably a poor choice of words. He is no Indurain or Hinault. He knows that when things get long and steep, he is done. I think that his heart is for CX and MTB where he can be more engaged for a greater percentage of the event. Sure it's cool to win these long races after hours of sitting in, but I sense that he gets restless and would rather be engaged for more of the event.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I am pretty sure one of the factors influencing his sabbatical is that XCO may exacarbate his back pain issue (with or without endo's). Taking a break out of it may be a sound idea.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

teleken said:


> Bec rode like a monster & I'll never get tired of posting that Trek is eating her dust now.


Trek made their decision, and at the time it was possibly the right one. In that time they've won the Olympic & World titles, and plenty of XCC, XCO races....


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Goran_injo said:


> I am pretty sure one of the factors influencing his sabbatical is that XCO may exacarbate his back pain issue (with or without endo's). Taking a break out of it may be a sound idea.


Yeah... I think there's a lot to truth to this. And perhaps a conclusion that his sponsors came to for him. He is making them no money rehabbing and they probably see XCO as an unnecessary monetary risk at this juncture, as he's paying out just fine occasionally putting on a leader's jersey on the road scene.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

For me, he's a better rider when he mixes disciplines; 2019 was his best season for all round excellence. It annoys me slightly when I read he should become a full time road rider - he then becomes just another one dimensional cyclist. Which is a waste of his off road talents.


----------



## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

jrob300 said:


> Yeah... I think there's a lot to truth to this. And perhaps a conclusion that his sponsors came to for him. He is making them no money rehabbing and they probably see XCO as an unnecessary monetary risk at this juncture, as he's paying out just fine occasionally putting on a leader's jersey on the road scene.


He's part owner of his team, so I'm guessing it is his decision. He really wanted the olympic mtb, but other than that, CX worlds, wearing yellow and winning a stage, the Tour of Flanders, Roubaix, and the Road World Champs are the biggest races in his orbit. He's got a great chance at all of them on an annual basis (depending on the world's course). 
Also keep in mind his grandfather, and his dad were exceptional road pros.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

WR304 said:


> It was a shame they didn’t show the actual change as I wanted to see what was done too.
> 
> This is the SRAM AXS compatibility map:
> 
> ...


The pairing wouldn't take too long but yes I agree, it would be quicker to swap out the dropper and controller in one go.

Found this on the SRAM website so it appears that Nino is running some development components:
No, the eTap AXS Wireless Blips are not compatible with Reverb AXS seatposts. The Reverb AXS requires a shift button that sends a constant signal while actuating the post. The eTap AXS Wireless Blip does not feature a continuous press or multi-shift function required for Reverb AXS.

*NOTICE*: SRAM is developing this functionality with a targeted firmware release date of July 2022. It will only require a firmware update to the components, including the derailleur(s) and shift controllers.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

euro-trash said:


> He's part owner of his team, so I'm guessing it is his decision. He really wanted the olympic mtb, but other than that, CX worlds, wearing yellow and winning a stage, the Tour of Flanders, Roubaix, and the Road World Champs are the biggest races in his orbit. He's got a great chance at all of them on an annual basis (depending on the world's course).
> Also keep in mind his grandfather, and his dad were exceptional road pros.


Part owner?


----------



## TylerVernon (Nov 10, 2019)

scottg said:


> I think it's too bad that he can come in and just dominate a race like that - I wish the full time XC racers would just beat him. But I don't see how it isn't fair - he's not coming in with any advantage other than incredible fitness and good skills, and he earned all of that. I still cheer against the roadies, because I'm a mountain biker, but the reality is that a number of the biggest talents will be in other disciplines because there's a lot more money - at least on the mens' side.


Seeing these crazy crashes in the road races, it's probably a lot safer racing xc!


----------



## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

A timely article about Mathieu and return to MTB in the future just popped up on cyclingnews.com. I don't pay for service so I can only read the intro.
Giro d'Italia leader Mathieu van der Poel to return to MTB racing in 2023 | Cyclingnews 

I'm happy to see he wants another crack at Olympic gold in MTB. I was also psyched when Peter Sagan raced MTB in Rio, but I always wonder if he kicks himself for that when that Olympic road race was won by another rider with similar Classics-guy strengths (Greg Van Avermaet) rather than a climber as predicted. MVDP strikes me as similar, recognizing that as long as it isn't a climber course then he has a good shot. But knowing that races are never as predictable as they seem on paper, I wouldn't want him skipping a road race because it seems too climby. He should race both.


----------



## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

TylerVernon said:


> What is up with Avancinis Albstedt tactics? Sprinting on lap 1 to stay ahead of Nino. Lap 2, 30+ sec back in 9th, acting out of energy.


He races against Nino, not to win, and he got angry that Nino passed him so had to show him back! (I ain't fan of that guy...)


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> I haven't seen Dascalu use the replaced seatpost in a lowered position. Without zooming and by guessing on what would I do as a mechanic - I'd replace it with a rigid one.


He used it down the last drops into the gravel whoop section. You can see him drop and raise it.


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

nya said:


> He races against Nino, not to win, and he got angry that Nino passed him so had to show him back! (I ain't fan of that guy...)


What’s his/their beef anywpays? RedBull sorta mentioned it during the Brazil race, but didn’t give any details. Nino steal his wife or something?🤷🏻‍♂️


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> What’s his/their beef anywpays? RedBull sorta mentioned it during the Brazil race, but didn’t give any details. Nino steal his wife or something?🤷🏻‍♂️


There's been some tension between them for a few years it seems. Case in point:

Did Henrique Avancini call Nino Schurter a bully? | MarathonMTB.com


----------



## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

PIdcock lost 1 second on the descents, gained 7 seconds per climb. He made it look easy. All about watts/kg.









Did Henrique Avancini call Nino Schurter a bully? | MarathonMTB.com


Tempers flare and emotions run high in races - but Henrique Avancini was quite calm when talking about Nino Schurter at the Cape Epic.




marathonmtb.com





I suppose cycling is a gentleman's sport. Trash talk is a part of high level major pro team sports, a way to get a little competitive edge. Larry Bird was a legendary trash talker who'd never admit some of the crazy (and hilarious) things he said to opponents. I doubt soccer (football) players are much different, plus they're the worst floppers in all of sports, even worse than basketball.


----------



## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

chomxxo said:


> PIdcock lost 1 second on the descents, gained 7 seconds per climb. He made it look easy. All about watts/kg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I seem to recall Avancini being perturbed that Scott had a backup team to support Nino and Lars at the Cape Epic and provided wheel replacements when Nino had a flat. He didn’t think that was fair I believe.


----------



## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

nya said:


> He races against Nino, not to win


Spot on


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

chase2wheels said:


> I seem to recall Avancini being perturbed that Scott had a backup team to support Nino and Lars at the Cape Epic and provided wheel replacements when Nino had a flat. He didn’t think that was fair I believe.


It was funny this year watching Nino constantly flat and steal the wheel from the Scott back up team while it really got him no where.

Speed Company racing dominated with probably less support than Avancini had.

And I agree it's not "fair" but it's the rules. Change the rules outside the race don't complain about them when you are already in it.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

How about Nino's massive step down. Camera's do not do just on just how big and how fast he was travelling to do that. The fact that he was only one doing it tells you just how big it is. And him using the janky B-line to pull of passes. 

Albstadt always get grief for being the "least technical course" but in both the men's and women's race gaps were created on the descents. Gaps that are probably as significant as the ones that will created on the very technical Nova Mesto descents.

As for next weekend. I think it will be Vlad for the men's race and Jenny for the women's.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> How about Nino's massive step down. Camera's do not do just on just how big and how fast he was travelling to do that. The fact that he was only one doing it tells you just how big it is. And him using the janky B-line to pull of passes.
> 
> Albstadt always get grief for being the "least technical course" but in both the men's and women's race gaps were created on the descents. Gaps that are probably as significant as the ones that will created on the very technical Nova Mesto descents.
> 
> As for next weekend. I think it will be Vlad for the men's race and Jenny for the women's.


I really don't think people give him enough credit for how fast he is. He was noticeably faster on the descents yesterday than almost anyone. Smooth is fast!

I don't think Pidcock established his lead on the descent. He put most of his time in on the climbs.

I agree that Vlad looks to be the form rider (Pidcock notwithstanding). 

Rissveds sometimes struggles in the technical stuff in the little I've watched her. Nove Mesto looked a step up last year, if it's the same this year then 🤷‍♂️. Same with PFP. 

Hard to bet against McConnell right now. Maybe Neff but I didn't actually follow where she finished in the end in Albstadt and she doesn't seem to be quite on the front running level yet.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

mail_liam said:


> I really don't think people give him enough credit for how fast he is. He was noticeably faster on the descents yesterday than almost anyone. Smooth is fast!
> 
> I don't think Pidcock established his lead on the descent. He put most of his time in on the climbs.


I very much want to see Pidcock and Shurter mano a mano at the end of one of these races... I've not seen anything that Pidcock does not do well on a bike. I want to see his descending skills under pressure against the best..... so far I think he is relatively untested that way.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> I really don't think people give him enough credit for how fast he is. He was noticeably faster on the descents yesterday than almost anyone. Smooth is fast!


Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it almost sounds like you are implying that the guy who is almost universally acclaimed as the best technical XC descender in the history of world cup level UCI racing is an underrated descender.  Maybe what you're getting at is that everyone expects this from him and doesn't mention it as often anymore? The level of descending proficiency in the whole field has improved in the last few years and closed the gap a bit, but I suspect the vast majority of people still have Nino at the top of their list.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mail_liam said:


> Rissveds sometimes struggles in the technical stuff in the little I've watched her. Nove Mesto looked a step up last year, if it's the same this year then 🤷‍♂️. Same with PFP.
> 
> Hard to bet against McConnell right now. Maybe Neff but I didn't actually follow where she finished in the end in Albstadt and she doesn't seem to be quite on the front running level yet.


I have always thought of Rissveds as being one of the better technical riders. She is one of the best jumpers in the field, only Neff is perhaps better. I was actually quite surprised to see McConnell gaping her on the desents but a couple of years ago Rissveds had a really hard crash at Albstadt, there might still be some demons from that one.

I do agree it is hard to bet against McConnel but it is crazy how much form can change from week to week. And I feel like Jenny came in under raced a bit and is going to get a good boost from a weekend of racing.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Circlip said:


> Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it almost sounds like you are implying that the guy who is almost universally acclaimed as the best technical XC descender in the history of world cup level UCI racing is an underrated descender.  Maybe what you're getting at is that everyone expects this from him and doesn't mention it as often anymore? The level of descending proficiency in the whole field has improved in the last few years and closed the gap a bit, but I suspect the vast majority of people still have Nino at the top of their list.


But I also suspect that vast majority of people don't quite understand how good he, or other WC racers are.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> I have always thought of Rissveds as being one of the better technical riders. She is one of the best jumpers in the field, only Neff is perhaps better. I was actually quite surprised to see McConnell gaping her on the desents but a couple of years ago Rissveds had a really hard crash at Albstadt, there might still be some demons from that one.
> 
> I do agree it is hard to bet against McConnel but it is crazy how much form can change from week to week. And I feel like Jenny came in under raced a bit and is going to get a good boost from a weekend of racing.


I would put Stigger way above both Jenny and Jolanda in jumping skills from what I could see, she is scrubbing and squashing jumps like none of these girls


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Circlip said:


> Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it almost sounds like you are implying that the guy who is almost universally acclaimed as the best technical XC descender in the history of world cup level UCI racing is an underrated descender.  Maybe what you're getting at is that everyone expects this from him and doesn't mention it as often anymore? The level of descending proficiency in the whole field has improved in the last few years and closed the gap a bit, but I suspect the vast majority of people still have Nino at the top of their list.


It's more the latter I promise. He's exceptional on a bike (not just for an XC racer) and I think you've summed it up better than I can (or did) 👌.

Also why he's willing to dial his set up for ultimate speed as he knows it's still possible to put some of the more pedal focused athletes under pressure when he wants to.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> I have always thought of Rissveds as being one of the better technical riders. She is one of the best jumpers in the field, only Neff is perhaps better. I was actually quite surprised to see McConnell gaping her on the desents but a couple of years ago Rissveds had a really hard crash at Albstadt, there might still be some demons from that one.
> 
> I do agree it is hard to bet against McConnel but it is crazy how much form can change from week to week. And I feel like Jenny came in under raced a bit and is going to get a good boost from a weekend of racing.


From what I've seen (only since her return post Olympic break) she's struggled a few too many times and had some odd spills that gave me that impression. I don't follow her closely. Only watching the WC races.

I'd also put Terpstra ahead of her.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

LMN said:


> But I also suspect that vast majority of people don't quite understand how good he, or other WC racers are.


This. But only when you see them ride a course you ride or have ridden, can one appreciate the skills they have.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I think Jenny R normally does not loose time on the technical stuff, but she does crash in strange places sometimes, making it look more like lack of concentration than lack of skills. She is also on a new bike this year after many years on Specialized, I think she will become better as the season progresses. During the short track she was looking a lot at her lockout lever (or dropper post lever), maybe she is missing the Brain function


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

It could be also a tire choice, if she chose racekings instead of crosskings could be a limited traction.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Skier78 said:


> During the short track she was looking a lot at her lockout lever (or dropper post lever), maybe she is missing the Brain function


To me it looks like she is watching her computer trying to pace herself, though i don't know if she even rides with one!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> What’s his/their beef anywpays? RedBull sorta mentioned it during the Brazil race, but didn’t give any details. Nino steal his wife or something?🤷🏻‍♂️


he’s beef with Nino is the two faced persona; the friendly smiling happy winner vs (as Henrique sees it) arrogant smack talking wind up artist who makes little comments to his rivals against their abilities. I don’t race him or know him so can’t confirm but that’s the beef or at least a portion






Circlip said:


> There's been some tension between them for a few years it seems. Case in point:
> 
> Did Henrique Avancini call Nino Schurter a bully? | MarathonMTB.com


I recall this incident and there was a war of words out on the trail. CFR did follow SSR and Nino asked CFR to help. They refused since they are working against each other not with. Nino got visibly irritated and said some harsh words which actually shocked Mani. Words were harsh but so were some actions on the bike not captured in the footage. Claims of switching and brake testing etc..Before then there was a cold respect between Nino and Henry , after that there is nothing , just a show for the TV. They do not like each other and it flows both ways, maybe more from Nino than Henry.




cassieno said:


> It was funny this year watching Nino constantly flat and steal the wheel from the Scott back up team while it really got him no where.
> 
> Speed Company racing dominated with probably less support than Avancini had.
> 
> And I agree it's not "fair" but it's the rules. Change the rules outside the race don't complain about them when you are already in it.


It’s not the rules per se but it’s not disallowed since the event wants to encourage more professional teams to participate. The rules covering outside assistance were tweaked a little some years ago to allow a team to assist another with mechanical repairs and the rules governing the require to finish on the same rims and frame you started we’re dropped even earlier. this at the request of Specialized. In the past a team could not enlist the assistance of another team to fix a puncture or mechanical failure. The affected team had to be self sufficient. CFR have mostly always fielded only one team and they never agreed to the rule change as they saw it as going against the ethos of the event. also many teams cannot afford to field two or three teams in the race so even if it’s allowed in the rules in practice is doesn’t work out fairly for everyone


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Dr. Schurter and Mr. Hyde


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> he’s beef with Nino is the two faced persona; the friendly smiling happy winner vs (as Henrique sees it) arrogant smack talking wind up artist who makes little comments to his rivals against their abilities. I don’t race him or know him so can’t confirm but that’s the beef or at least a portion


If that’s the case, Nino really won that one. I mean, like Chom alluded to, look at guys like Jordan, Kobe, Brady, etc. At best, there’s a certain “coldness” to them. At worst, they’re stone cold killers. It’s like you need that singular focus, drive, and maybe arrogance to be “the best ever.”

So it wouldn’t surprise me, even a little, if Nino were a bit like that. But here we are, 4yrs later, Nino seemingly liked (if not loved) by most fans, keeps on winning, and considered the best ever….while Henri can’t seem to put together a sensible plan bc he’s so preoccupied w/ beating someone who probably doesn’t even think about him.

“Rent free in his head” comes to mind.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

It doesnt need to hate each other, there was an incident back then but things could be ok now! In any way, they are still enemies inside a race so tactics of Henrique was to ride first on the descents because he was riding a HT and Nino tacticts was exactly the opposite. There where some nonsence bypassing but thats all, i dont see anything wrong.

PS. Avancini showed the dick he is by blocking the road to his rivals on the last climb of the XCM he won.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Also: whether it's Pidcock showing up whenever his calendar allows or Nino using a support team...what is all this talk about fairness? If it is allowed in the rules, then it's fair. If it's against the rules: then it's not and a rider should be DQ'd. 

UCI has said that Pidcock (and MvDP, Cink, and other "roadies") can join these events; therefore: fair. If other riders don't like it...then beat them. Cape Epic made it's rule...if you don't like it, get them to change it back...or don't race.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

What happened to cape epic?


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

If the beef was that Avancini wasn't willing to give turns and was in the race, frustration is anticipated. 

Stage race, team "schlepping" behind and not giving turns....you would ask them, not as Captain, but as a rider braking the wind and making you faster. If they declined, this opens up space for grey zone tactics. 
One of the tactics could be braking before a turn like there is nobody behind, because in essence, there isn't, as they are not giving turns. 

These are not easy situations.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> What happened to cape epic?


This interview with Henrique Avancini from 2020 goes into this a bit and is worth a read:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/interview-henrique-avancini-perseverance-pays-off.html




“Q: During the Cape Epic last year you made a few comments about Nino Schurter saying “it would be nice to have some microphones on the bikes and then people could see who is the real Nino“ as that he “gives s*** to every rider on the peloton, nobody knows this side of him”. Was that simply said in the heat of the moment and then blown out of proportion of sorts?
———-

HA: I don’t know, I look back and think if there is anything I regret. if I regret speaking about that in the way I felt, but to be honest I don’t regret it at all speaking about that. I think that is why I don’t avoid the subject if people want to talk about that. It’s just something that I don’t feel good about, the way he acts in the peloton. I mean he is a really dominant character and he knows how to use that to his favour and I clocked that before in a few other situations and I knew that it would always come back again. So it’s not that he’s unrespectful to other riders, but it’s the way he uses his influence. So he wants to control the way other athletes act during the race, just because in theory he is the most important guy there and I don't like that. I don’t think you should race the race for others. He controls that and most of the riders don’t know how to react, to me I think if you’re going to speak during the race you need to be open to speaking after the race. 

The thing that always bothered me a little bit more and annoyed me a little bit more about him is that he was always aggressive during the race and inside the race, which you might agree or not, I don’t think it’s about right or wrong, but if you’re going to act like that I think you can’t cross the line and pose like a nice boy. You cannot act like you’re a smooth character and that you had lots of fun and that you are a friend of everyone else… So if you want to be a fighter on the course then okay, speak as a fighter. I think I’m a very clear and open person, a lot of people don’t like me and I understand. You’re not really pleasant to everyone once you acted that way and I think that is why I see myself as a different person. When I compare myself to him as a character because he just acts in a really different way from inside the race to outside of the race. That’s why I said the things I said at this time and I still stand by the same, I just would say it in a smoother way because I could be kinder! But anyway, I still see it the same way.” *Pinkbike*


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Lol, sounds like Nino owns real estate in Avancini's head. Mission accomplished. 



WR304 said:


> This interview with Henrique Avancini from 2020 goes into this a bit and is worth a read:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

So, Pidcock went for a recovery ride from Germany to Czech Republic...well, maybe not all the way, but at least 190km...or 6hrs and change...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I thought Avancini's tactics last weekend were correct, he just didn't have the legs to follow through.

He already saw on the first descent that Nino was descending really fast, and was the facing the prospect of constantly having to close gaps across the flats if he let Nino lead the descents. He adapted went to the front set a good hard pace on the climb and tried to the lead the descent. That is the text book tactic for racing against a better desender. 

What would be tactically inept is to let the better the descender lead every descent and drop you, making you have to chase on every single climb.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I don't see it like that at all. Nor does Schurter has a mission to aggravate fellow riders, on the contrary. It just creates extra motivation for your competitor(s).

And for Avancini having to change his tactics. No he doesn't. He still needs to be there in the front, but stay there for a difference.

edit: post should be below chomxxo comment on real estate....


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## Purulento (Aug 27, 2009)

LMN said:


> The fact that he was only one doing it tells you just how big it is


Mathias crash that Rob spoke about


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

chomxxo said:


> Lol, sounds like Nino owns real estate in Avancini's head. Mission accomplished.


He does...that beef has ben going on for a few years now...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Avancini needs to learn how to take control of the situation and dominate the pack. He's too nice about his racing. Nino is a complete hardass and wins because of it


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> So, Pidcock went for a recovery ride from Germany to Czech Republic...well, maybe not all the way, but at least 190km...or 6hrs and change...


There's a photo on instagram of him riding his TT bike.....(Who else takes a TT bike to a MTB World Cup?)


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> There's a photo on instagram of him riding his TT bike.....(Who else takes a TT bike to a MTB World Cup?)


maybe he wants to add IronMan stripes to his palmares


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

If you are a stronger rider, you will win regadless of being nice or not, dominant or not. I was beaten by dominant riders when I was weaker than them. And have beaten dominant riders when I was stronger than them.

And that is why I like cycling, you can be a introvert, extrovert, softy or hardass, and win gold.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pidcock-rides-from-germany-to-czech-republic-for-next-mtb-world-cup-round/



MvdP did similar years ago, riding home to Kapellen from the cancelled CX World Cup round in Koksijde.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

a


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

xcskier66 said:


> I've always found that hard sprint efforts in the first 20 mins of the race tend to cause bad races. My legs are fresh enough that I can flood my legs with lactate and my body can't recover and maintain a solid pace. I think Henrique might have had a better chance by avoiding any hard efforts early in the race and leaving the hard efforts in the last 20 mins of the race. Henrique might have tried to follow nino on the downs and figure out how to stay with him.
> 
> *big caveat* I'm a hack. I don't know if athletes with world cup fitness can handle super hard efforts in the first 20 mins. I kind of doubt it though...lactate is lactate.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

<rant>

Today was the Mt. Etna stage of the Giro. This is what I was alluding to when I said that MVDP's talents were being wasted... poor choice of words perhaps, but it's disheartening to watch him struggle through the tours with their long/steep climbs. Sure... he gets to wear a leaders jersey for a few days, but unless someone creates a tour tilted more towards his strengths (more shorter, punchy climbs, less long grinds... and that will NEVER be the Giro or the Tour de France) I don't think we will ever see Mr. van der Poel ever win a tour. So not only does he finish poorly in those events, he misses XCO events in which he can potentially bring the fireworks. And I as a fan feel a little robbed. Stick to CX, Classics/World Championships and XCO.

</rant>


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> <rant>
> Sure... he gets to wear a leaders jersey for a few days, but unless someone creates a tour tilted more towards his strengths (more shorter, punchy climbs, less long grinds... and that will NEVER be the Giro or the Tour de France) I don't think we will ever see Mr. van der Poel ever win a tour.
> </rant>


Winning stages and wearing a leader's jersey for a few days has huge value to a sponsor, from what I understand. I don't think anyone is under the impression that MvdP is ever going to challenge for the GC at a GT, and that includes MvdP himself. Only 1 rider wins the GC, and to be realistic there are usually only a handful of serious GC challengers at any given GT. Many teams participate in the GTs without any serious consideration for the GC. They have other goals and other ways of achieving sponsor visibility. I'm sure I'm telling you what you already know here.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

MvdP is out this year from XC because he damaged his back. The fall at the Olympics made it worse. It was always his plan after to skip the 2022 XC season.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

jrob300 said:


> <rant>
> 
> Today was the Mt. Etna stage of the Giro. This is what I was alluding to when I said that MVDP's talents were being wasted... poor choice of words perhaps, but it's disheartening to watch him struggle through the tours with their long/steep climbs. Sure... he gets to wear a leaders jersey for a few days, but unless someone creates a tour tilted more towards his strengths (more shorter, punchy climbs, less long grinds... and that will NEVER be the Giro or the Tour de France) I don't think we will ever see Mr. van der Poel ever win a tour. So not only does he finish poorly in those events, he misses XCO events in which he can potentially bring the fireworks. And I as a fan feel a little robbed. Stick to CX, Classics/World Championships and XCO.
> 
> ...


I’m going to go out on a (safe and substantial) limb here and say that it’s likely Alpecin-Felix has a vastly different definition of “finished poorly” than yours.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

cassieno said:


> It was always his plan after to skip the 2022 XC season.


I think in context, this makes sense. I remember reading something very early this spring that led me to believe that _HE_ wanted to race XCO, but his sponsors felt like the conservative thing was to do the Classics and Tours. We've already discussed that, so won't dive back into it, but better to be riding something than riding nothing. Hopefully next year he gets a little more balance in his schedule.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Not only Alpecin-Fenix, but probably all cycling fans across the world that understand road cycling consider Alpecin already half way done in their Giro goals campaign. 

And I am betting he just drifted back, cut his losses to be fresher for the stages he can win, and finish the Giro in full.

He will win a few more stages.

Days of GC winners of grand tours only counting as wins are long gone.

Do I wish he was in Nove Mesto? Yes. It would make XCO a more competitive place. But I won't judge him for it.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

In other news, those of you with Instagram, you should follow Speed Company Racing. They are quite funny and racing the back to back WC's on schedule.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

This is a fair rationalization, but it's also fair to say that we are all fueled by emotion. To deny that there is psychological gamesmanship in pro sports is unrealistic. When I see the quote by Avancini:

"he is a really dominant character and he knows how to use that to his favour"

...well that's probably why Nino wins. My favorite Blevins dropped to 18th, fighting a cold. It's extremely difficult to have the string of successes that Nino has had. Look at that huge pack in the leadout--think about how far you can fall with just an off day. 

I wouldn't deny Nino some pride and an earned position as a dominant character in the race. I don't think it's hypocritical that he keeps the smack talk on the course where it should be, but smiles for the camera. 

Avancini can change his tactics or he can not change them, but he has to have the confidence to win on his own, and then, most importantly be able to do it. THEN he can talk 

Ultimately Pidock just rode away from everybody, so if you can do that, chapeau..



Goran_injo said:


> I don't see it like that at all. Nor does Schurter has a mission to aggravate fellow riders, on the contrary. It just creates extra motivation for your competitor(s).
> 
> And for Avancini having to change his tactics. No he doesn't. He still needs to be there in the front, but stay there for a difference.
> 
> edit: post should be below chomxxo comment on real estate....


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

chomxxo said:


> "he is a really dominant character and he knows how to use that to his favour"
> ......
> ...well that's probably why Nino wins. My favorite Blevins dropped to 18th, fighting a cold. It's extremely difficult to have the string of successes that Nino has had.
> .....
> Ultimately Pidock just rode away from everybody, so if you can do that, chapeau..


Nino doesn't win because he is a dominant character. It may be a very small component for some race types/stage racing, where your presence can impose somebody to create draft for you, but that is it.

Nino is winning because of natural talent, exceptional work ethics and complete dedication, in combination of a very, very understated component, solid immune system, plus swiss team around him. Perfect storm.

Nino with a cold would be a dominant character, dropped to 18th.

Pidcock drove away. That is pretty much it.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Bad news pidcock is racing this week also.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

cycloholic said:


> Bad news pidcock is racing this week also.


Yeah.... but he rode his bike from Albstadt to the Czech Republic, so he'll be really tired.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Pidcock will have his work cut by Dascalu alright.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> Yeah.... but he rode his bike from Albstadt to the Czech Republic, so he'll be really tired.


Gas price in europe is outrageous these days.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Btw, how it went for izerbyt?!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I believe he retired from about 90th place with back pain.......


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> I believe he retired from about 90th place with back pain.......


CX riders and back pain...


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Being in a competitors head is great, one fewer to worry about, but it’s much less useful in sports where you race the whole field: you’re not in the head of everyone at that level. Even Avancini managed to (probably) snake Nino at round 2 in 2020 when Nino got stuck behind Andreasson at the split singletrack just before the finish. That was great tactics by Avencini. Also, LMN said it, tactics to lead into the descent last weekend when slowest were totally rational. 

MVDP is an amazing talent, but it seems often overlooked that Pidcock has dusted him in every XCO WC race at which they’ve been head to head (disclaimer of non-exhaustive knowledge): Albstadt, Nove Mesto and Tokyo in 2021. Pidcock really does look as though he “was just made to mountain bike” (his words).


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

NordieBoy said:


> CX riders and back pain...


Well yes, former U23 CX World Champion, Pim Ronhaar reported on his instagram that he'd had back issues during the U23 race. And he's not the only former U23 CX World Champ with back issues....the current XCO World Champ seems to have them as well.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

RexRacerX said:


> Andreasson


Maybe I missed it but where’s he been? Haven’t seen that name in a while.


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

jrob300 said:


> I very much want to see Pidcock and Shurter mano a mano at the end of one of these races... I've not seen anything that Pidcock does not do well on a bike. I want to see his descending skills under pressure against the best..... so far I think he is relatively untested that way.


Slim evidence, but Pidcock did lose a couple of CX races this season when he crashed on the last lap under pressure from chasers (Namur to Michael Vanthourenhout, X20 Flandriencross to Sweek). Pidcock is so strong that he often gets a big lead and doesn't have to worry (Olympics, Albstadt, etc.) - but he does seem to be vulnerable to making technical mistakes when under pressure. That's probably small consolation to his rivals when he is smashing them by wide margins, but might be an expoitable "weakness" when his fitness is slightly less.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

TwincamRob said:


> Maybe I missed it but where’s he been? Haven’t seen that name in a while.


Out with a diagnosed but undisclosed ailment that is being treated. Said he’ll be back hopefully later in the year.


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

Exmuhle said:


> Well yes, former U23 CX World Champion, Pim Ronhaar reported on his instagram that he'd had back issues during the U23 race. And he's not the only former U23 CX World Champ with back issues....the current XCO World Champ seems to have them as well.


Seems to be best to win elite CX worlds


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

forrest_m said:


> Slim evidence, but Pidcock did lose a couple of CX races this season when he crashed on the last lap under pressure from chasers (Namur to Michael Vanthourenhout, X20 Flandriencross to Sweeck). Pidcock is so strong that he often gets a big lead and doesn't have to worry (Olympics, Albstadt, etc.) - but he does seem to be vulnerable to making technical mistakes when under pressure. That's probably small consolation to his rivals when he is smashing them by wide margins, but might be an exploitable "weakness" when his fitness is slightly less.


Yeah, it's a small sample size but nonetheless interesting. His early season CX performances are quite similar; the fitness/form isn't quite there so when he's tired the little mistakes creep in. He won a World Cup the day before the Namur race, and everybody expected him to ride away; he made a poor start and was playing catch up. In his post race interview he said by the time he got into the lead he was 'gassed'.....and he had a wobble on the off camber section, then a fall on the grass before the cobbled climb.

Saying that, I recall MvdP winning at Namur when putting pressure on Aerts on the last lap who crashed trying to stay ahead....Namur can be brutal - and is probably the closest CX comes to a XCO race.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

This guys race week prep looks different from mine.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> This guys race week prep looks different from mine.
> 
> View attachment 1983162


That's just his mid morning ride on a tapering week. Phil Gaimon should be worried when Pidcock retires...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Pidcock is to XCO what Van Der Poel is to CX. When they are on form, they at just another level than everyone.

I also think Van der Poel is to XCO what Pidcock is to CX, on the right day they are best in the world but they need a good day.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> Pidcock is to XCO what Van Der Poel is to CX. When they are on form, they at just another level than everyone.
> 
> I also think Van der Poel is to XCO what Pidcock is to CX, on the right day they are best in the world but they need a good day.


Agree; in fact I think I've said something similar on another forum. 

In CX Pidcock simply doesn't have the raw power that MvdP/ Van Aert have - which is what CX is almost a test of. Lots of mainly flat-ish courses, and from mid November, they become muddy, so this amplifies it even more. There will be some courses where other factors come into play, (hillier & technical) and this is where Pidcock can shine.

Similarly in XCO, MvdP can struggle with lots of climbing - look at the size of him, he must be giving over 15kg away v Pidcock; short punchy climbs suit him best. The 2019 version of MvdP was impressive, and won 5 XCC, and 3 XCO; would he have beaten a Pidcock? Maybe we'll find out next season, hopefully.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> Agree; in fact I think I've said something similar on another forum.
> 
> In CX Pidcock simply doesn't have the raw power that MvdP/ Van Aert have - which is what CX is almost a test of. Lots of mainly flat-ish courses, and from mid November, they become muddy, so this amplifies it even more. There will be some courses where other factors come into play, (hillier & technical) and this is where Pidcock can shine.
> 
> Similarly in XCO, MvdP can struggle with lots of climbing - look at the size of him, he must be giving over 15kg away v Pidcock; short punchy climbs suit him best. The 2019 version of MvdP was impressive, and won 5 XCC, and 3 XCO; would he have beaten a Pidcock? Maybe we'll find out next season, hopefully.


From watching the two of them for the last few years, it seems that MVDP doesn't have the "mid-range" that Pidcock has, and this is what could make Pidcock a better tour racer (Better: more likely to win the whole thing. MVDP certainly will win his share of stages) and why they excel at different courses in XCO and CX. MVDP can give you 1300w for a minute or 330w for 8 hours, but that 4-700w for an hour up an 8% just is not there, and this is what makes Pidcock so dangerous in those scenarios by virtue of his lower weight... he just doesn't need to generate the same numbers and he ends up wearing MVDP down entirely on w/Kg.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> He does...that beef has ben going on for a few years now...


I remember Avancini last year answering a question post race about Mathias Flückiger starting with "We are not friends". Is there a beef between those two as well?


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

It's funny, when I raced really regularly in the 90's, like every weekend around the midwest, there were a few dudes I didn't like myself. Looking back, for no great reason, just didn't like them. LOL. Can you imagine what those guys go through? Getting cut off, blocking into single track, beating you all the time, contracts, money, must be a few rivalries that are known. All the ladies seem like such buddies, well, maybe a few that aren't fans of the other.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

bananajoe said:


> I remember Avancini last year answering a question post race about Mathias Flückiger starting with "We are not friends". Is there a beef between those two as well?


There's a saying that goes something like this.... "When everyone around you is the problem, YOU are the problem". Perhaps this applies here??? He's a very emotional dude.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm betting the European guys are "closer" than the few that are from other continents. The Swiss, French, German racers probably see other fairly often. That's just a theory. That's what makes sports interesting I guess, the rivalries, the attitudes. I am looking forward to another weekend of stuff to talk about though. Pidcock will win bar a flat or something, and Nino will be on the Podium. At the speed Nino is at right now, and Pidcock and MVdP not being at the races going forward, I think he's got a fantastic chance to win at least one more, maybe 2 this year.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

bananajoe said:


> I remember Avancini last year answering a question post race about Mathias Flückiger starting with "We are not friends". Is there a beef between those two as well?


Don't know.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I have $20 on PFP not finishing the season...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> I have $20 on PFP not finishing the season...


Not taking that bet.


To be fair she did snap her chain today


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Not taking that bet.
> 
> 
> To be fair she did snap her chain today


Then I take it back...I didn't knew about that. 

But something from her seems a bit off...may it is just my perception. 

And what a race from Neff and Becca!!!


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I think Pauline might be aiming for the world champs more than the XCO series


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Good to see Blevs back up there. Also Pidcock timed that late move very well popping up to second on the last straight.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Luca Schwarzbauer with the powa


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

csteven71 said:


> Good to see Blevs back up there. Also Pidcock timed that late move very well popping up to second on the last straight.


Indeed. Blevins had bad positioning on the last turn and made up so much ground on that long sprint. Gerardo Ulloa proving again he is a threat. Pidcock also had a great sprint. Again, Nino beat Avancini.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Luca Schwarzbauer with the powa



Would love to know how much he put out; Dascalu was right behind him on the final lap - and he blew him away.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I keep getting distracted by Pidcock's Ineos jersey and the red on his shoulders. It looks like he is wearing a pack with red shoulder straps and I wonder why he is wearing a hydration pack.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

To me he looks like he is wearing a red vest with opened zipper 😂


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Both races was impressive finally!!! The big german is so powerful and he looks so cool and approachable guy😁


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Footage of Jenny Rissveds right after the race looked like she was deep in the pain locker.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

MattMay said:


> Footage of Jenny Rissveds right after the race looked like she was deep in the pain locker.


Those efforts are so unhealthy!


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Exmuhle said:


> Would love to know how much he put out; Dascalu was right behind him on the final lap - and he blew him away.


Agree, the power file starting from the grass uphill leading into the finish would be fun to see, he was killing that poor canyon 🤩


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Luca Schwarzbauer with the powa


Absolutely immense! He was in a league of his own when he lay down the Watts.

As others have said, it'd be cool to see the file. Does he do Strava?


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

There's a short bit you can just hear of Pidcock just after the finish you hear him say"He just rode off with it" 

Not sure how I feel about the track changes for the XCO on Sunday


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Skier78 said:


> Agree, the power file starting from the grass uphill leading into the finish would be fun to see, he was killing that poor canyon 🤩


He will not be racing MTB too much longer. That kind of finishing kick will get you some attention from road teams


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

theMISSIONARY said:


> There's a short bit you can just hear of Pidcock just after the finish you hear him say"He just rode off with it"
> 
> Not sure how I feel about the track changes for the XCO on Sunday


What are the XCO course changes? I have watched the Pivot team preview but don't know it well enough from POV to know the intricacies (and I watched it at work with no sound).

I was initially bummed about the XCC course changes away from the technical one from last year. The combination of orientation and final hill sprint did lead to two exciting races though. I didn't realise the final punch up to the Start/Finish straight was as steep as it is based off previous coverage. I think they could add a bit more technicality so that it's not just a fat tyre criterium personally.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The course had to be worked on after last year. I walked it after the race and it was completely destroyed.

This actually the 2nd time they have done some major repairs to course. I believe it was completely refreshed in 2016.

Originally the course was actually pretty smooth but 12 years of World Cup racing has worn everything away.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I like the dirt crit. It's like the last 20 minutes of a spring classic race


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> The course had to be worked on after last year. I walked it after the race and it was completely destroyed.
> 
> This actually the 2nd time they have done some major repairs to course. I believe it was completely refreshed in 2016.
> 
> Originally the course was actually pretty smooth but 12 years of World Cup racing has worn everything away.


Makes sense. I did notice all the gravel. That makes some sense. It'll wear again over time with wet racing especially.

There's nothing wrong with a dirt crit per se, but I much prefer a bit more technicality to a Mountain Bike race. Especially with the level of skill in these fields.

Equally, they have to cater for both the men's and women's, and also for varying conditions. Last year the course seemed to intimidate a lot of the girls. Most courses have it about right. But I liked last year's Nove Mesto course being properly technical as a bit of a change to the norm.


There's still plenty of riders around that the XC races available to them are 4wd tracks so I understand it's dependant on expectations and availability of course features etc etc.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> He will not be racing MTB too much longer. That kind of finishing kick will get you some attention from road teams


Dude was like his own leadout train.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Tom Pidcock is going to win multiple Monuments and a Grand Tour some day. He’s so impressive. Marianne Vos-like. Throw them on a bike and they just win.

I wonder how many of the women have been approached by WWT teams. I won’t pretend to know how much she makes right now but with the rapid professionalization of the women’s road peloton, but I could see Loana taking that road money some day. Particularly after Paris, if things go well. A few of the bigger names are nearing the end of their careers or just retired. Events are getting bigger, more TV coverage, bigger purses and much larger team budgets.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Also, yes, Luca Schwarzbauer should get picked up by a road team. He’s got QuickStep-AlphaVinyl or Alpecin-Fenix written all over him. 

Not only was his effort absolutely otherworldly, he positioned himself very well throughout. 


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Le Duke said:


> Tom Pidcock is going to win multiple Monuments and a Grand Tour some day. He’s so impressive. Marianne Vos-like. Throw them on a bike and they just win.
> 
> I wonder how many of the women have been approached by WWT teams. I won’t pretend to know how much she makes right now but with the rapid professionalization of the women’s road peloton, but I could see Loana taking that road money some day. Particularly after Paris, if things go well. A few of the bigger names are nearing the end of their careers or just retired. Events are getting bigger, more TV coverage, bigger purses and much larger team budgets.
> 
> ...


I don't know if women's road racing has GT specialists yet do they? I guess Loanna would be a domestique on the road so may not earn more than having set up her own Canyon Team and dictating terms on the XCO side.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Tom Pidcock is going to win a Grand Tour some day. He’s so impressive.
> 
> I wonder how many of the women have been approached by WWT teams. I won’t pretend to know how much she makes right now but with the rapid professionalization of the women’s road peloton, but I could see Loana taking that road money some day. Particularly after Paris, if things go well. A few of the bigger names are nearing the end of their careers or just retired. Events are getting bigger, more TV coverage, bigger purses and much larger team budgets.
> 
> ...


I think there is more money in women’s MTB than women’s road. The highest paid my MTB racers are 200-300k and I don’t think those salaries are found in the female peloton.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> I don't know if women's road racing has GT specialists yet do they? I guess Loanna would be a domestique on the road so may not earn more than having set up her own Canyon Team and dictating terms on the XCO side.


Not really; if you watch the WWT - virtually all the top women are 'all rounders'. Most of the same women ride all the races. Until this year, the Giro Rosa was the only GT, and the same women tend to contest it as the one day races. So, take Annemiek Van Vleuten - 1st in Liege Bastogne Liege, 2nd in Strade Bianchi, Flanders - she'll likely be the favourite for the new Tour De France Femmes.

It's entirely possible we get more specialisation in the WWT, but is that a good thing? I like the fact that the top women do a bit of everything, and can win everything. 

In terms of female MTB racers going to the road, well you'd have to think Mona would be a top climber - and there'd be no worries about the start.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> He will not be racing MTB too much longer. That kind of finishing kick will get you some attention from road teams


It's possible. I saw a comment on Twitter about road teams getting him in for a test. That's some serious watts he was putting out - Dascalu was well positioned to sprint past him; Luca just took off...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> I think there is more money in women’s MTB than women’s road. The highest paid my MTB racers are 200-300k and I don’t think those salaries are found in the female peloton.


AVV is rumored to make €250,000.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> AVV is rumored to make €250,000.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The top men are making that every month..... it will be interesting to see how that turns out.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> The top men are making that every month..... it will be interesting to see how that turns out.


True. Just pointing out that there are women making very good money on the road, too. 

There are also a LOT more racing opportunities and prize money associated with those races.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> AVV is rumored to make €250,000.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That is 10 years behind mountain bike salaries. There is a reason I am mortgage free


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

When compared to mens racing there isn’t financial incentive for women to switch to road. That is why women’s XCO is so competitive, the top athletes stay in sort and stay in it for a long time. On the men’s there is a significant financial incentive to switch. In a way this has aloud a couple of riders to absolutely dominate Men’s XCO racing


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Martine Vidaurre won U23...by 1:10...that kid is good. He has not lost a race maybe since mid 2021.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I don't think we've seen anything from Loana to say she's as good (as an engine) as AVV 🤷‍♂️.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Martine Vidaurre won U23...by 1:10...that kid is good. He has not lost a race maybe since mid 2021.


I think he's ready for the Elites, but understand him staying in U23 this season. And the women's U23 again had the same 1-2 as Albstadt; Burquier & Pieterse, both current World Champions.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

LMN said:


> When compared to mens racing there isn’t financial incentive for women to switch to road. That is why women’s XCO is so competitive, the top athletes stay in sort and stay in it for a long time. On the men’s there is a significant financial incentive to switch. In a way this has aloud a couple of riders to absolutely dominate Men’s XCO racing


I think that might be the other way round for the Australian riders, we have plenty of talented road and track racers but most don't even give the MTB races a go despite many being MTB riders


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)




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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Another great ladies race.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

And a pretty epic mens!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

And the roadie wins on a rigid bike 😂😂


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

That was a good broadcast 👌👌👌
What a view from the drone behind the athletes!!


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

What a ride from Nino. Loved it. Pidcock timed that last lap very well.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

Pidock gives good podium interviews! Like how he didn't want to attack when Nino flatted. 
Rissved's line of questioning and the ensuing pauses were awkward, almost painful to watch. I'm sure the interviewer was being fed by producers what to ask, but it got a little too "investigative mental health beat a dead horse" in my opinion.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Was looking at instagram, and noticed that Trek got the men's team prize; in an alternative universe, Pidcock would have been on one as well.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

One of the best races in men's category!! Nino is fucking legend. Women's race was also super good👌👌


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

That race by Nino was one of the most impressive I've ever seen by anyone. Unreal. Seems like he would have won without flatting, but that's mountain bike racing.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

That Nino guy didn't win, but super impressive ride. If he sticks around, he could make a mark on this sport!


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Yeh that was unbelievable and the best part of the race. Pure grit.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Yeh that was unbelievable and the best part of the race. Pure grit.


Has that always been your signature, or did I just now notice it because it's so perfect given the current discussion?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

That was probably the most impressive ride I have seen from Nino. And he has done a lot of impressive rides!


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I still wonder how, after ~ 3 years, Rob and Bart can continue to pronounce the name of Gerardo Ulloa as "Ochoa." It's mind-boggling.

Gerardo Ulloa
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In this Spanish name, the first or paternal surname is Ulloa and the second or maternal family name is Arévalo.

Full name José Gerardo Ulloa Arévalo
Born 19 October 1996 (age 25)
Guadalajara, Jalisco, Mexico[1]
Team information
Current team A.R.Pro Cycling Teams
Discipline Mountain bike, road


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

paramount3 said:


> I still wonder how, after ~ 3 years, Rob and Bart can continue to pronounce the name of Gerardo Ulloa as "Ochoa." It's mind-boggling.
> 
> Gerardo Ulloa
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


Who cares?


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I can’t understand half of what Bart says anyway. 


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Salbutamol bass said:


> Who cares?


I do. It's a matter of respect. And having an accent is fine, but willfully adding consonants that aren't there is not. Both Rob and Bart do it. It took me about 30 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia, and I don't get paid to cover the pro MTB field.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

paramount3 said:


> I do. It's a matter of respect. And having an accent is fine, but willfully adding consonants that aren't there is not. Both Rob and Bart do it. It took me about 30 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia, and I don't get paid to cover the pro MTB field.


And yes, I do appreciate the great coverage that RedBull provides for free, and I'm not a Rob Warner/Bart Brentjens hater.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Schwarzbauer has, for lack of a better term, a double chin. He still has baby fat on him. 

Think about that. Dude puts out 470w NP leading an XCC race, blows the doors off of the best riders on the world and looks like a Belgian classics racer showing up to an early season, pan flat OPEC country WorldTour race. Or an early season Jan Ullrich.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

paramount3 said:


> I do. It's a matter of respect. And having an accent is fine, but willfully adding consonants that aren't there is not. Both Rob and Bart do it. It took me about 30 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia, and I don't get paid to cover the pro MTB field.


It would be disrespectful if they did it on purpose, get your panties out of a bunch and relax…damn


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Schwarzbauer has, for lack of a better term, a double chin. He still has baby fat on him.
> 
> Think about that. Dude puts out 470w NP leading an XCC race, blows the doors off of the best riders on the world and looks like a Belgian classics racer showing up to an early season, pan flat OPEC country WorldTour race. Or an early season Jan Ullrich.
> 
> ...


I was super impressed by his ride in the XC race today. 
1st, I thought he was a little "soft in the middle" to go up hill that well.
2nd, I thought the short track effort would have nuked in today.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> I was super impressed by his ride in the XC race today.
> 1st, I thought he was a little "soft in the middle" to go up hill that well.
> 2nd, I thought the short track effort would have nuked in today.


Did you see him on the XCC podium next to Pidcock? It looked like “Take Your Kid to XCC Day”.

He is, conservatively, 50lbs heavier than Pidcock. If that guy weighs less than 180lbs, it’s because he’s got bird bones. 


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Salbutamol bass said:


> It would be disrespectful if they did it on purpose, get your panties out of a bunch and relax…damn


I like my panties bunched, thank you. What it means, probably, is that Rob Warner is stretched too thin. Ideally he would continue covering downhill, where he is in his element, and someone more attuned to XC could cover it. I guess that might happen (the last part anyway) when Discover takes over. And I know, I should be careful what I wish for. I am asking for professionalism, and Rob is at his best when he casts professionalism to the side--for example today, when Red Bull did the piece on racers who had pulled off a "perfect weekend" by winning both the XCO and XCC--and Rob finished it off by saying "I get the feeling that their perfect weekend might be a little bit different to mine."


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Did you see him on the XCC podium next to Pidcock? It looked like “Take Your Kid to XCC Day”.
> 
> He is, conservatively, 50lbs heavier than Pidcock. If that guy weighs less than 180lbs, it’s because he’s got bird bones.
> 
> ...


When I see a guy like I think you are a spring classics rider you just don’t know it yet


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Just watched the men's final. Sacrilege here I know.... But I do not worship at the church of Nino. Having said that, kudos to Nino. Unbelievable effort. I have not seen many comebacks like that in my life. Respect.

And congratulations to Tom Pidcock..... what a talent.

Schwartzbauer is truly a BEAST. I would be shocked if he is not on a road bike post haste.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

scottg said:


> Has that always been your signature, or did I just now notice it because it's so perfect given the current discussion?


Haha been my signature for a few years since my wife bought me a t shirt with that on it after I survived a flat line heart attack on a mountain bike ride.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

paramount3 said:


> I do. It's a matter of respect. And having an accent is fine, but willfully adding consonants that aren't there is not. Both Rob and Bart do it. It took me about 30 seconds to look it up on Wikipedia, and I don't get paid to cover the pro MTB field.


And how you understand how it actual pronounces from wikipedia?!


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

paramount3 said:


> I still wonder how, after ~ 3 years, Rob and Bart can continue to pronounce the name of Gerardo Ulloa as "Ochoa." It's mind-boggling.
> 
> Gerardo Ulloa
> From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> ...


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Did you see him on the XCC podium next to Pidcock? It looked like “Take Your Kid to XCC Day”.
> 
> He is, conservatively, 50lbs heavier than Pidcock. If that guy weighs less than 180lbs, it’s because he’s got bird bones.
> 
> ...


BTW anybody knows his weight?!

*edit: mtbdata claimed 78!


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

paramount3 said:


> I like my panties bunched, thank you. What it means, probably, is that Rob Warner is stretched too thin. Ideally he would continue covering downhill, where he is in his element, and someone more attuned to XC could cover it. I guess that might happen (the last part anyway) when Discover takes over. And I know, I should be careful what I wish for. I am asking for professionalism, and Rob is at his best when he casts professionalism to the side--for example today, when Red Bull did the piece on racers who had pulled off a "perfect weekend" by winning both the XCO and XCC--and Rob finished it off by saying "I get the feeling that their perfect weekend might be a little bit different to mine."


Yes but no. Rob Warner is maybe the best history has ever had to mtb even xco. We dont all care about the political correctness you are asking for. About names, who the hell cares?! And how is possible to prounounce all the foreigner names correct? I mean even Jenny (Rissveds) prounounces different in swedish, or Matthiew in Dutch (MVDP) so what?!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> From watching the two of them for the last few years, it seems that MVDP doesn't have the "mid-range" that Pidcock has, and this is what could make Pidcock a better tour racer (Better: more likely to win the whole thing. MVDP certainly will win his share of stages) and why they excel at different courses in XCO and CX. MVDP can give you 1300w for a minute or 330w for 8 hours, but that 4-700w for an hour up an 8% just is not there, and this is what makes Pidcock so dangerous in those scenarios by virtue of his lower weight... he just doesn't need to generate the same numbers and he ends up wearing MVDP down entirely on w/Kg.


700W for a hour,…..surely you hyperbole
400W is likely the upper end of the spectrum for Piddles.



bananajoe said:


> I remember Avancini last year answering a question post race about Mathias Flückiger starting with "We are not friends". Is there a beef between those two as well?


They do not like each other much. Not sure where it stems from but it could be something to do with Matthias appearing to back up or ride for Nino sometimes. I thought I saw glimpses of that yesterday with Nino off the back Mathias we rode wars and slowed the pace down. That’s partially why Nino caught back up. There’s been other incidents on track where it appears Matthias makes it hard for HA when Nino attacks . I don’t thinkHA has a massive issue with it , he just tends to speak his mind when maybe being more diplomatic would get home further. He also needs to sort his training out. He’s gone backwards


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

cycloholic said:


> BTW anybody knows his weight?!
> 
> *edit: mtbdata claimed 78!


According to his Trainingpeaks screenshot he is 77kg and 179cm tall. I wonder how tall Pidcock is, according to Wiki he is 170cm and 50kg, he looks more like 160cm to me, but 50kg is probably about right.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> When I see a guy like I think you are a spring classics rider you just don’t know it yet


Hmm, I wonder.....something to look out for.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I enjoi Bart and Rob…the same way I enjoi Phil and Paul. Sure they get stuff wrong…but they mostly know what they’re talking about, are pleasant to listen to, and they bring excitement.

I agree that they should get names correct, but I mostly give them a pass. I’ll be more annoyed if it’s not corrected by race 5 or 6.

re: Schwartz: all weekend I was like: why’s that man riding a kid’s bike. As a fellow large person, I’m sad that I’m not on the WC.😞


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Anyone know what bike Pidcock was riding? Not a Pinarello, obviously. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Bmc


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)




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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I laughed hard on a comment reply to someone asking about how Forster modified his number plate:


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Super racing all weekend!!! Here are my couch racer thoughts:
1. Becca is on another level right now. Can she hold that form all season? 
2. Jenny is always gonna give''interesting'' interviews. Let her be...She focuses on herself and her well being. Nothing else should matter.
3. WTH happened to PFP? Could not watch the entire race, but she looked good at the beginning though. 
4. Pidcock said he didn't had the power to attack and get away like he has in the past. We all saw him stretch the elastic a few times on the climbs, but he did timed his sprint perfectly.
5. Vlad needs a win. Badly!!!
6. Nino has done things like this in the past. Remember Snowshoe 2019? He flatted, Avancini looked strong for the win and then a freight train full ahead of steam with Nino in the engine room came back to him. 

All in all, incredible racing this past two weeks. I need a break from all the screaming!!!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> BTW anybody knows his weight?!
> 
> *edit: mtbdata claimed 78!


You can calculate his weight entered in Training Peaks from the screenshot a few pages back. A weight entered in Training Peaks, which isn’t really a public sharing platform, is likely correct: 

388 watts / 5.04 w/kg = 76.98kg rider weight

You can do the same thing in Strava for other riders using the Strava power curve chart to find the watts for a duration, and then the w/kg for the same duration. I wouldn’t necessarily trust any rider weight details entered in Strava. They can be wrong or not updated.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> 700W for a hour,…..surely you hyperbole
> 400W is likely the upper end of the spectrum for Piddles.


Yeah... mixed metaphors.... the 700w thing was from memory a few years back from Miguel Indurain.... I'm probably wrong, but you ARE right w/kg is what really counts and I would never expect TP to put out those kind of watts... but he sure can deliver w/kg in very different ways from MVDP.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

celswick said:


> Anyone know what bike Pidcock was riding? Not a Pinarello, obviously.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It was a BMC Fourstroke. This link is for his Olympic bike from last year but this year’s looks very similar parts wise: 









This is the BMC Fourstroke that Tom Pidcock won Olympic XC gold on


Pidcock the prodigy dominates in Tokyo




www.bikeradar.com


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> 2. Jenny is always gonna give''interesting'' interviews. Let her be...She focuses on herself and her well being. Nothing else should matter.


Evie is still my favorite...but if you're not in front, you don't get the interviews...Jenny is sneaking up on her as my new favorite. She is very interesting and thoughtful. I thought the "lacking confidence" question was kinda cringe-worthy (in an open form interview fine...but moments after crossing the finish line is: no bueno), but she handled it well. I hope she keeps doing well, b/c her interviews are better than the standard "bill o' fare" we see so often.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

smartyiak said:


> Evie is still my favorite...but if you're not in front, you don't get the interviews...Jenny is sneaking up on her as my new favorite. She is very interesting and thoughtful. I thought the "lacking confidence" question was kinda cringe-worthy (in an open form interview fine...but moments after crossing the finish line is: no bueno), but she handled it well. I hope she keeps doing well, b/c her interviews are better than the standard "bill o' fare" we see so often.


True.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

WR304 said:


> It was a BMC Fourstroke. This link is for his Olympic bike from last year but this year’s looks very similar parts wise:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Some pictures of this years bike:








Tom Pidcock continues to put SR Suntour's electronic system to the limit


This is the BMC Fourstroke with which Tom Pidcock is racing in Albstadt.




en.brujulabike.com





Really clean integration of the suspension lockouts.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Skier78 said:


> Some pictures of this years bike:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At the Nove Mesto race in the coverage just after he’d finished Tom Pidcock can be heard saying his suspension wouldn’t unlock. For the last few laps there was some sort of issue with the suspension on the bike.

In the TV coverage just after the finish there’s a bit where he’s saying his collarbone felt weird as well. That was the collar bone he broke and had screwed and pinned last year. All the jarring might not have been comfortable.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

From the start line before the start he was checking the suspension.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

cycloholic said:


> From the start line before the start he was checking the suspension.


This just in: everyone is opting for a hardtail at Leogang!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Super racing all weekend!!! Here are my couch racer thoughts:
> 1. Becca is on another level right now. Can she hold that form all season?
> 2. Jenny is always gonna give''interesting'' interviews. Let her be...She focuses on herself and her well being. Nothing else should matter.
> 3. WTH happened to PFP? Could not watch the entire race, but she looked good at the beginning though.
> ...


1; That is the question - normally you would say no - there's still another 3 months to go. The others will surely have found their form.
2; With her history, they should be careful what they ask her; it's great to see her good form since her comeback. Her interview in Lenzerheide last year was hilarious.....

5; Agree. He's in great form, and his recent XCO race results are impressive; 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd; I wonder if he already had a win, would he have had the confidence to attack earlier yesterday? He just needs that first win......


One hopes Evie can get her back problems sorted, as it's causing her so much pain; and she was in decent form earlier in the season and won a race in Spain.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

/delete


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Nino - what else can you say...


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Andri Frischknecht deserves a shout out. That's one of his better races. He got up there and stayed up there the whole race.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Wow, a lot to unpack here!

Absolutely incredible racing! Loved watching Nino come back to the leaders. The speed he was carrying was immense! Awesome to see Cooper building into some form!

With regards the plates, I was actually going to ask @LMN whether there had been a memo sent to the teams as there has been almost no riders doing the wrap the number the number around the bar thing this year which had become prevalent last year (and I was pretty sure was outside the rules as it meant you couldn't see the sponsor details on the plate etc). My guess is that's what Sarrou did but I didn't go look.

*ETA - I just checked IG and Sarrou and Forster both folded the top of their number plates back over their bars. Not as egregious as the last year examples, but obviously they have made a point of eliminating the habit.*

As for the names, and general quality of commentary. I do think it's a little bit of common courtesy to make the best attempt at correct pronunciation of a name. To me this is whatever the rider themselves (or those around them) tell you it is. Now if Rob and Bart haven't been corrected and don't speak the language I think that's partly on Arrevelos team.

On the flip side George Hincapie won't pronounce Roglic's name correctly despite Bruyneel pronouncing it correctly moments earlier. That's ignorance.

I don't think you could accuse Rob and Bart of being anything but good for MTB and genuine.

Whether there are better commentators out there is hard to say. I never thought I'd want to watch road racing without Paul and Phil, but once you realise the vast, vast improvement with for example the GCN+ crew you understand what you were putting up with.
Just my 2c.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It will be interesting to see what next year looks like, both for events and production quality.

I have heard some prilimary details and it sounds pretty good. Particularly for those who are not from Europe.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

LMN said:


> It will be interesting to see what next year looks like, both for events and production quality.
> 
> I have heard some prilimary details and it sounds pretty good. Particularly for those who are not from Europe.


The big question on my mind concerning the move to Discovery is "Accessibility ".
To Paywall, or not to Paywall? That is the question.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Augustus-G said:


> The big question on my mind concerning the move to Discovery is "Accessibility ".
> To Paywall, or not to Paywall? That is the question.


Presumably it'll be behind GCN+ paywall if Discovery is the same company as Eurosport etc?

That's not so bad, so long as they don't geo block and sell the rights to extortionate cable companies with terrible user experiences.


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

This is my first season of watching XC racing, and it's been great so far! The courses seem challenging, and the racing is great. Both the mens and womens fields looks strong to me.

After her disappointment at the Olympics last year, it's great to see Bec start the season so well. Great to see Anton Cooper up at the pointy end too (since there's no Aussie up there, I'm cheering him on instead  ).


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Sarrou removed the sponsor from his number(or folded that much that was invisible). In a picture it looks like Blevins did the same.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

And exactly the same thing for lars.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

westin said:


> Pidock gives good podium interviews! Like how he didn't want to attack when Nino flatted.


And very very mature not to trash, or even call out/mention your sponsor for malfunctioning equipment. True class at 22y.

Such an impressive race at so many aspects. If Nino didn't puncture, and Tom didn't have technical issues, who knows how it would pan out - easy to place your money on Nino, but I am not sure - one thing is certain, Vlad would be third, and a deserved third - very bright future, and very commanding present.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> Presumably it'll be behind GCN+ paywall if Discovery is the same company as Eurosport etc?
> 
> That's not so bad, so long as they don't geo block and sell the rights to extortionate cable companies with terrible user experiences.


Seeing as they'll be the producers/ promoters/ owners of the rights, one would assume it would be on their own platform - which is GCN. 

I'm hoping we get to see a lot more racing content on the GMBN You Tube channel when Discovery take over. Compared to GCN, GMBN cover very little World Cup racing. A small news section in the Dirt Shed Show, and the occasional bike check. on GMBN Tech. 
GCN have a weekly 'Racing News' show, plus previews of the biggest races, the Grand Tours, and World Championships, etc


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Nice to see Vital Albin (10th) applying the advice he got from Nino 23 years ago


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Not sure if this is some kind of mistake, but Laurie Arsenault (Canyon XC racer) is on the start list for the Fort William DH world cup. If that's legit, that's a brave cross-discipline effort by Laurie.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/entry...e-start-sheet-for-fort-william-world-cup.html


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Now that would be cool. Don't know why, but it would be. I remember in 1991/2 the Norba races I did, my 2nd ever race actually, had 4 races that almost everyone did, XC, DH, Time Trial, and Uphill. It filled the whole weekend, and the Time trial and Uphill were only 5 minutes long if I recall, so they didn't actually screw up the XC. No one really had a DH bike, you rode the same bike for all 4. I did this twice, then they got rid of all but the DH and XC. I do remember being absolutely terrified at the DH course. I went SLOW. The sheer steepness of the course meant you got going way too fast without even pedaling. It was really scary. 

Must be a mistake I'd guess.


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## MarkJ70 (May 31, 2006)

I finally finished watching both the men's and women's races so I could come read the reactions here without seeing spoilers. That men's race was quite exciting and enjoyable, though it would have been interesting to see what would have happened if Nino hadn't gotten the flat. It was impressive to see how fast he was descending on those sharp rocks right before he got the flat, but then of course it immediately was revealed to be a risk that didn't pay off, which was too bad. I assume it would never be worth the weight on a course like that to run even just a rear insert, so then it seems like such a fine line to find the limit of what your light race tires can take on a section like that. 

I also really enjoyed the women's race as well even though it was a bit less dramatic. That new XCC course seemed more like a cyclocross course - I'd guess if you were allowed to switch bikes for the main race (which of course pointless to consider but perhaps interesting from a theoretical standpoint) that a cross or gravel bike would have been a little faster on that course.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I still don't get why these guys don't strap one of those big cans of air/sealant on their seatposts like they used to. A flat like Ninos, he could stop, thread that thing on, blast the crap out of it with a ton of foam sealant and air, and throw it and go. 30-seconds max he'd be down. Then get a new wheel, another 30, 1 minute, done. They don't weigh much at all, and would easily save a race. Especially if it happens right after the tech zone. Isn't a few ounces and ugliness worth losing a worldcup? I dunno. Throw one in your back pocket, no one would know it's there. Heck, Stans or someone could make one the shape of a flask that slides in your back jersey pocket almost flat. 

I should kickstarter something like that. It could have ultra thick foam, like that stuff you use to seal windows and trim around your house. Ruin the damn wheel if you must. But you could keep riding at least.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I saw zero sealant coming out of his tire/rim bead.

And he said he isn't an insert fan in an interview, if I recall correctly stating proper pressure and descending technique is all it takes.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

If he won't opt for something a bit more reliable than those particular Maxxis he's on, he's not likely to bother carrying the extra 200g for a can of sealant. I also don't think they'd waste time trying to do a temporary fix on the side of the trail.

Riders from other teams were running inserts a year or so ago, I don't recall whether Nino was an adopter then or not. Scott-SRAM do seem to run the highest volume tyres consistently though so that might be something that counters their desire to run one.

I would think it'd be good to increase the speed when pedaling back to the tech zone.

I do think they have to look at that 170tpi Aspen. That's a lot of issues really.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Goran_injo said:


> I saw zero sealant coming out of his tire/rim bead.
> 
> And he said he isn't an insert fan in an interview, if I recall correctly stating proper pressure and descending technique is all it takes.


He ran those terrible tubulars for so long 😬. Perhaps in this one area, he's not the voice of reason we might expect lol.

He'd have possibly been on 35 or 36 WC wins and the 2022 Cape Epic champion if not for those thin tyres 🤦‍♂️. Admittedly the flip side is maybe he _really_ needed the extra 0.25% from the Aspen ST One70 to win the World Champs (I don't believe it lol).


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## rideveryhard (Mar 22, 2012)

Spare bikes in the pits? Dump the bike with the flat and jump on the fresh bike, minimal time loss. Thoughts?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

rideveryhard said:


> Spare bikes in the pits? Dump the bike with the flat and jump on the fresh bike, minimal time loss. Thoughts?


Not permitted.

You can swap everything but the frame, I believe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

rideveryhard said:


> Spare bikes in the pits? Dump the bike with the flat and jump on the fresh bike, minimal time loss. Thoughts?


That would ruin the chess match of deciding between durability and speed. I'd rather they keep the rules as are so the manufacturers don't skimp on durability in designing bike frames that you and I will buy.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

Stonerider said:


> That would ruin the chess match of deciding between durability and speed. I'd rather they keep the rules as are so the manufacturers don't skimp on durability in designing bike frames that you and I will buy.


Well it works for CX and on the road, do you feel less safe on those frames?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Salbutamol bass said:


> Well it works for CX and on the road, do you feel less safe on those frames?


weight limit n place for road bikes, CX rules permit a bike swap as long as the bike is identical to the machine you start on. They weigh both bikes and check for motors


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> Not permitted.
> 
> You can swap everything but the frame, I believe.
> 
> ...


Correct. Everything but the frame. I've been at race were you see a full bike just ti tear it apart if anything happens.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I must admit I don't get the inconsistency between disciplines; some allow a bike swap, and some don't. Surely it should be all, or none. I compare it to motorsport if your car/bike stops, that's it, race over; there's no lift back to the pits for a new one.

Manufacturers are in racing to show off their goods; I always think it looks a bit silly when people will finish a race on a different bike, or maybe even a third different bike. However, if the UCI statement about the sport is "all about the athlete, and not the bike" then the 'one bike only' in XC seems counter to this.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> I must admit I don't get the inconsistency between disciplines; some allow a bike swap, and some don't. Surely it should be all, or none. I compare it to motorsport if your car/bike stops, that's it, race over; there's no lift back to the pits for a new one.
> 
> Manufacturers are in racing to show off their goods; I always think it looks a bit silly when people will finish a race on a different bike, or maybe even a third different bike. However, if the UCI statement about the sport is "all about the athlete, and not the bike" then the 'one bike only' in XC seems counter to this.


If you break your bike in half on the first day of a grand tour, I don’t think you should have to abandon the race.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I think the requirement for MTB to start and finish on the same frame is a hold over from a couple decades ago when there was a big self-sufficiency element to it. Riders always carried a tube and would fix their own flats and get rolling again. I don't remember if/when the pit concept was always a thing, but I honestly don't remember it before a decade ago or so.
In road, it was once the same but that was like a century ago. Then as pointed out, sponsors and organizers realized that it was bad for publicity/marketing to have stars out of the race due to a bike mishap. I feel like MTB is still much closer to its origin so the mentality is still present.
I didn't realize that CX made you have identical bikes for pit bikes. I mean they are in practice because they are pros and they want their fleet of bikes identical for consistency and convenience. But I didn't realize it was required. The pros have more like 3+ bikes for pits.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> I must admit I don't get the inconsistency between disciplines; some allow a bike swap, and some don't. Surely it should be all, or none. I compare it to motorsport if your car/bike stops, that's it, race over; there's no lift back to the pits for a new one.
> 
> Manufacturers are in racing to show off their goods; I always think it looks a bit silly when people will finish a race on a different bike, or maybe even a third different bike. However, if the UCI statement about the sport is "all about the athlete, and not the bike" then the 'one bike only' in XC seems counter to this.


Road and CX teams are often quite large with many riders. XCO is usually anything from a single mom to a fully fledged factory supported team. Large teams have budget for multiple bikes, Single riders teams not so much.
How those teams are structured and earn their revenue is also very different to XCO. So to make it more fair to all participants in XCO the rules revolve around ensuring that sufficient competitors have the resourses to complete a season.
XCO like road has to travel the world for all the important races. CX typically takes place in BeNeFrux and the US east coast. Much lower logistics costs than for XCO. Every bike that has to be shipped has to be paid for. Small XCO teams would just not be able to compete


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Also replaceable-in-race (i.e. disposable) bikes and parts would suck for amateurs and privateers


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I remember being kind of upset when they started allowing pits and whatnot at XC races. Everyone was on their own, just like as if you were out in the woods yourself. In fact, the first few XC national races I did in the early 90's were one giant 26 mile or so loop. You hit the start line, and no one sees you again for 2.5 hours, you against the world. It was awesome. That was not marathon, that was plain old XC racing, Sport class no less. We all had seat bags with tools and at least one tube somewhere. I had a custom skinny hand pump up in my seatpost so you'd just pull the post out and pump up the tire. 

When the pits showed up, there was a period where everyone had a tube or co2 taped to their stem and seatpost. Then those big air cans on their seat tubes. Then nothing. It still doesn't make sense. You can be 2 miles from a tech zone and get a flat, while in the lead no less, and have zero chance to fix it and get going. Nino was very lucky his tire stayed on, and he wasn't very far from the next zone. but if he had just passed that zone? He'd be in 70th place, not 3rd. In which case a blaster can might have gotten him through and in 10th or something. Just as a thought play on ifs, ands, or buts.

Basically, the Cape Epic for teams without backups.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

Brad said:


> weight limit n place for road bikes, CX rules permit a bike swap as long as the bike is identical to the machine you start on. They weigh both bikes and check for motors


What’s your point of this post? The point I made is the other disciplines allow bike swaps, and the bikes they sell to customers are safe.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Salbutamol bass said:


> What’s your point of this post? The point I made is the other disciplines allow bike swaps, and the bikes they sell to customers are safe.


His point is that both road and CX have minimum weight requirements that prevent riders/teams from sacrificing durability for low-weight. MTB does not, and allowing bike exchanges could promote even further weight-reduction at the expense of durability as a race-strategy.

We've circled back to Stonerider's post...how many laps do you wanna go?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> His point is that both road and CX have minimum weight requirements that prevent riders/teams from sacrificing durability for low-weight. MTB does not


Actually, the UCI minimum weight limit is also applicable to MTB. However, it's more of a theoretical thing since current products and technology do not really allow for world-cup race bikes (ignoring nutty weight weenie singlespeeds that are not suitable) that are anywhere near the weight limit. Therefore, the UCI doesn't bother weighing mountain bikes.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Circlip said:


> Actually, the UCI minimum weight limit is also applicable to MTB. However, it's more of a theoretical thing since current products and technology do not really allow for world-cup race bikes (ignoring nutty weight weenie singlespeeds that are not suitable) that are anywhere near the weight limit. Therefore, the UCI doesn't bother weighing mountain bikes.


You're absolutely correct! (the weight limit does not prevent MTB from sacrificing durability for weight...but their weight reflects the durability to finish the race -with one bike)


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> You're absolutely correct! (the weight limit does not prevent MTB from sacrificing durability for weight...but their weight reflects the durability to finish the race -with one bike)


Thanks for the clarification VSS. My fault for not quite picking up the intent of your original post.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

I conveniently ignored that the rule applies to MTB in lieu of the current practice.

But to Stonerider's point, you could argue the weight limit has otherwise prevented an arms-race in road and CX (certainly a 55 kg mountain goat could ride a 6.5 kg road bike, but if that same bike were sold to the 'fat Ulrich' superfan for his Saturday Starbucks ride 🧨), and bike-exchanges in MTB could certainly change the strategy for equipment selection.


Question for those in the know...is equipment replacement in the pits at UCI MTB races only allowed for failures (flat tires, broken seat, post, etc), or is it allowable to swap a less-suitable part for a more suitable part (e.g. changing from a dry-specific tire to a mud-specific tire) for changing conditions?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Salbutamol bass said:


> What’s your point of this post? The point I made is the other disciplines allow bike swaps, and the bikes they sell to customers are safe.


What are you implying with your post? Other disciplines have more money more backing. If you chose not to read the post properly don’t comment


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Not allowing people to swap out bikes doesn't really bother me. And Nino probably needs to ditch those tires he is running (Aspen Race I think). They let him down in Cape Epic and potentially made him take third instead of first.

Pidcock's comments on the race were interesting. He was expecting the pack to let up and wait for Nino. He wasn't expecting them to just plow on. I read that as he just rode with them and went their speed. I think that's what really allowed Nino to catch up. No one was really pushing the pace (or if they were it wasn't enough to keep Nino off the back / they were already blown)


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Allowing bike swaps makes the cost of racing exponentially worse. It would massively disadvantage small teams, particularly from the southern hemisphere. Or any team or individuals running as national federation teams or solo entrants wouldn't be able to bring the fleet of bikes that a local or factory team could.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The ability to change bikes in the pits would give a significant advantage to teams with a big budget. 

Logistically it would be an absolute nightmare. Take Nova mesto, there are two seperate feed zones, each of those feed zone could be stocked with a 100 bikes or more. Currently, even finding enough wheels and staff to cover both pits is something that smaller teams can't do.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

Brad said:


> What are you implying with your post? Other disciplines have more money more backing. If you chose not to read the post properly don’t comment


I don’t think you understand what it is you’re reading, which seems a common theme.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

LMN said:


> The ability to change bikes in the pits would give a significant advantage to teams with a big budget.
> 
> Logistically it would be an absolute nightmare. Take Nova mesto, there are two seperate feed zones, each of those feed zone could be stocked with a 100 bikes or more. Currently, even finding enough wheels and staff to cover both pits is something that smaller teams can't do.


There would only be 1 spot for a bike change, not multiple. Racing is always advantage to large budgets, not a single type of sport where this isn’t true.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I think I prefer at least a nod to "fairness" in XCO racing. It sucks when a puncture happens. But, changing a wheel doesn't slow down a rider that much. It's getting to the Tech zone to change that wheel that takes forever. 

Kate could have got a new brake lever quicker with a new bike (but it also wouldn't have materially impacted the race).

I am struggling to see how allowing bike swaps would make for better racing? So they lose slightly less time do to mechanicals?

Nino has said it a ton of time when he gets flats "That's racing"


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

ewarnerusa said:


> I didn't realize that CX made you have identical bikes for pit bikes. I mean they are in practice because they are pros and they want their fleet of bikes identical for consistency and convenience. But I didn't realize it was required. The pros have more like 3+ bikes for pits.


In the UCI elite cyclocross races I've done, it was not required that the pit bike was identical to the other bike used in the race. I had my singlespeed in the pits, which is notibly quite different than my geared bike (10 speed vs 1, canti vs disc, carbon vs alloy...). Only thing that mattered is I had the UCI regulation width tires on both bikes and they were drop bar and those general bike rules. Not a World Cup, but still UCI with the same regulations. 

I can see how for World Cups and the bigger races the bikes are identical for those on the bigger teams or with more resources - like you stated, consistency between the bikes would be best. However, unless there's some other UCI rule that only applies to World Cups and higher, I haven't experienced needing identical bikes.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Salbutamol bass said:


> There would only be 1 spot for a bike change, not multiple. Racing is always advantage to large budgets, not a single type of sport where this isn’t true.


It would be a barrier to entry. It's already an elitist and hugely expensive sport. We're all pretty privileged to have the option to buy one high end bike, but of you live outside of Europe it's going to be too expensive for young riders to try and get there and show themselves off if the expectation is two bikes or more.

As @LMN said, for a lot of privateers they are sharing wheels from other categories and it's a real hassle to find someone to actually man the tech zone with a bottle and wheel, let alone be able to actually do a mechanical fix.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Salbutamol bass said:


> There would only be 1 spot for a bike change, not multiple. Racing is always advantage to large budgets, not a single type of sport where this isn’t true.


Yes, but most sports make some attempt to control this.

And you still be dealing with more than 100 spare bike sitting some where in the tight confines of these WC courses.

I don’t think that there would be a lot of interest from even the big budget teams.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I prefer the no bike change idea as the components need to be durable to a point, if you can just change the bike then they will just manufacture the bikes to the point of being useless for anything but racing in and around the rules


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I want to bring up something that has been discussed here before, but it's been bothering me more lately. I think the use of XCC results to determine start positions for XCO is just wrong. There have been a couple new developments:
1. The points contribution of the XCC races towards the overall standings has been reduced--an acknowledgment that perhaps XCC was having too much of an influence
2. There is now an individual XCC overall competition, separate from the general overall competition. XCC results count for the overall, but XCO results don't count for XCC competition.

This is all a logical muddle. If I am a world champion-caliber 10,000m runner, I don't need to run a 400m competition to get my start position for the 10K race. Why should I have to excel at short track to be competitive in XCO? And if we somehow think that it's virtuous to be an "all rounder" to be able to be competitive in XCO overall, then why don't we demand that for XCC? Why give XCC its own overall winner if the winner can suck in XCO races? It's fine if you want to have an overall winner for XCO and an overall for XCC, and you can even have a combined winner, but don't penalize the brilliant XCO racers who don't happen to also be brilliant XCC racers. At the very least, let the start positions for XCC be determined by XCC results, and let the start positions for XCO be determined by XCO results. Or let the start positions in both races be determined by overall standings. As it is, the quality of the racing is compromised by having some of the best riders in XCO forced to start in the fourth row. I'm thinking of Mona Mitterwallner at the moment, but previously we also had Yana Belomoyna, who went from winning the overall to being an also-ran once the XCC qualification system came into play (she also broke her hip, which didn't help).


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

paramount3 said:


> I want to bring up something that has been discussed here before, but it's been bothering me more lately. I think the use of XCC results to determine start positions for XCO is just wrong.


I've been thinking this too. They could even make a "combined champion" at the end of the season (like skiing). Yana Belomoyna is exactly who I thought of too.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

paramount3 said:


> I want to bring up something that has been discussed here before, but it's been bothering me more lately. I think the use of XCC results to determine start positions for XCO is just wrong. There have been a couple new developments:
> 1. The points contribution of the XCC races towards the overall standings has been reduced--an acknowledgment that perhaps XCC was having too much of an influence
> 2. There is now an individual XCC overall competition, separate from the general overall competition. XCC results count for the overall, but XCO results don't count for XCC competition.
> 
> This is all a logical muddle. If I am a world champion-caliber 10,000m runner, I don't need to run a 400m competition to get my start position for the 10K race. Why should I have to excel at short track to be competitive in XCO? And if we somehow think that it's virtuous to be an "all rounder" to be able to be competitive in XCO overall, then why don't we demand that for XCC? Why give XCC its own overall winner if the winner can suck in XCO races? It's fine if you want to have an overall winner for XCO and an overall for XCC, and you can even have a combined winner, but don't penalize the brilliant XCO racers who don't happen to also be brilliant XCC racers. At the very least, let the start positions for XCC be determined by XCC results, and let the start positions for XCO be determined by XCO results. Or let the start positions in both races be determined by overall standings. As it is, the quality of the racing is compromised by having some of the best riders in XCO forced to start in the fourth row. I'm thinking of Mona Mitterwallner at the moment, but previously we also had Yana Belomoyna, who went from winning the overall to being an also-ran once the XCC qualification system came into play (she also broke her hip, which didn't help).


They do have an influence on XCC, the points are accrued _mostly_ in XCO races to determine the top 40. Those are the XCC starters. So you can't be a pure XCC specialist without being decent at XCO.

With regards Mitterwallner, I'd say the flip side is she was too high in the rankings given most of her results were from U23, rather than Elite. She will prove her mettle no doubt, but I think it's good that she and the likes of Belamoina aren't given a free ticket to the front row.

I think Yana has fallen away as the courses have become more technical.

My preference is for the XCC to be a faster, more tactical technical XC race. Like Nove Mesto was last year. That wouldn't do some of the riders that struggle with the XCC any favours though, but it would ensure its the best overall mountain bikers not just those with the most horsepower/crit racing experience that succeed.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

paramount3 said:


> I want to bring up something that has been discussed here before, but it's been bothering me more lately. I think the use of XCC results to determine start positions for XCO is just wrong. There have been a couple new developments:
> 1. The points contribution of the XCC races towards the overall standings has been reduced--an acknowledgment that perhaps XCC was having too much of an influence
> 2. There is now an individual XCC overall competition, separate from the general overall competition. XCC results count for the overall, but XCO results don't count for XCC competition.
> 
> This is all a logical muddle. If I am a world champion-caliber 10,000m runner, I don't need to run a 400m competition to get my start position for the 10K race. Why should I have to excel at short track to be competitive in XCO? And if we somehow think that it's virtuous to be an "all rounder" to be able to be competitive in XCO overall, then why don't we demand that for XCC? Why give XCC its own overall winner if the winner can suck in XCO races? It's fine if you want to have an overall winner for XCO and an overall for XCC, and you can even have a combined winner, but don't penalize the brilliant XCO racers who don't happen to also be brilliant XCC racers. At the very least, let the start positions for XCC be determined by XCC results, and let the start positions for XCO be determined by XCO results. Or let the start positions in both races be determined by overall standings. As it is, the quality of the racing is compromised by having some of the best riders in XCO forced to start in the fourth row. I'm thinking of Mona Mitterwallner at the moment, but previously we also had Yana Belomoyna, who went from winning the overall to being an also-ran once the XCC qualification system came into play (she also broke her hip, which didn't help).


I don't disagree with you.

But it has less of an influence than what you would think.

Both Mona and Yana are poor starters. Put them front row and they will be 4th row after 50m. It is something that they need to work on. Poor starters will never become great starters, but they can become good enough.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> I conveniently ignored that the rule applies to MTB in lieu of the current practice.
> 
> But to Stonerider's point, you could argue the weight limit has otherwise prevented an arms-race in road and CX (certainly a 55 kg mountain goat could ride a 6.5 kg road bike, but if that same bike were sold to the 'fat Ulrich' superfan for his Saturday Starbucks ride 🧨), and bike-exchanges in MTB could certainly change the strategy for equipment selection.
> 
> ...


You are allowed to change wheels (and tyres) during the race at any time. Mostly this will only happen if there's a deluge from the sky that turns a dry course into a mud bath. The rest of the time the riders will have practiced the course so often that they know what tyre is going to work best and they'll have multiple sets of wheels with the same tyre mounted.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

paramount3 said:


> This is all a logical muddle. If I am a world champion-caliber 10,000m runner, I don't need to run a 400m competition to get my start position for the 10K race.


I get your point, but that’s a flawed analogy. A 20-minute effort (XCC) is primarily aerobic just like a 90-minute effort (XCO) is, albeit with a bigger percentage anaerobic contribution possible.

A sub-50 second effort (400m run) and a sub-35 minute effort (10000m) have very little in common.

it’s also very hard to compare cycling and running as the ability to coast and recover makes it possible to be good at multiple cycling distances - repeated anaerobic efforts won’t kill a long-distance effort necessarily, a marathoner can’t really get away with that as they’d have to slow down too much to recover.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I know this idea will not land with everybody, or anybody, but I would shut down technical zones whatosoever in XCO.

Complete self reliance. 
Carry a co2, pick a tire strong enough, don't select a 300g dropper or a 10g carbon seatpost cradle.

My rationale is that the sport is rugged, nature based, has a strong technical component and equipment should be in line with the course demands. 

Counterargument could be that it is not riders fault they got a technical, and they deserve an opportunity, but this is actually fixed by more conservative component selection that would be in place with no tech zones.

I see it like they say for parachuters...it is always your fault if you don't land alive


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Salbutamol bass said:


> There would only be 1 spot for a bike change, not multiple. Racing is always advantage to large budgets, not a single type of sport where this isn’t true.


So now you are determining what the rules would be? Got it.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Goran_injo said:


> I know this idea will not land with everybody, or anybody, but I would shut down technical zones whatosoever in XCO.
> 
> Complete self reliance.
> Carry a co2, pick a tire strong enough, don't select a 300g dropper or a 10g carbon seatpost cradle....
> ...I see it like they say for parachuters...it is always your fault if you don't land alive


This will NEVER happen. But: I like it and wish it would!


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Goran_injo said:


> I know this idea will not land with everybody, or anybody, but I would shut down technical zones whatosoever in XCO.
> 
> Complete self reliance.


I kinda like this.... if it was with today's rule, we would have been robbed of Cindy Whitehead epic performance, winning a 50 mile MTB race after her saddle fell off.


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Without tech zones, would the top racers be likely to choose more durable tires or make other choices to ensure they don't have an issue? It seems to me that it's very rare for a rider to actually get back in position for a potential win after a mechanical issue - despite what we just saw on Sunday. I think the racers in the midpack, who are fighting for positions and aren't likely in contention for a win, might opt for more durable tires etc. but the margins at the front of the pack often seem so small that they're just going to take the chance anyway. The "if you're not first, you're last" theory. It might only apply to a small handful, but it would likely apply to the guys we actually see on TV. Just my opinion, maybe I'm way off.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> I kinda like this.... if it was with today's rule, we would have been robbed of Cindy Whitehead epic performance, winning a 50 mile MTB race after her saddle fell off.
> 
> View attachment 1984225


The good ole days when we thought hiking boots made good MTB shoes.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I don't see any need to tweak anything. mechanical failures are quite rare Chain snap at the start, tyres puncture but we don't see exploding derailleurs or frames folding like we did in the 90's.

There are two areas you can work on your bike. Outside the bounds of the course or in the Tech&Feed Zone.
Working on a bike on the wrong side of the tape comes with all sorts of issues. A rider cannot enlist outside assistance. More than a few don't even know what fits into those funny 6 sided socket head bolts.
Or you ride to the tech zone and have it sorted properly.
The fact that any sort of mechanical is going to cost the rider position already preloads the weighting toward more reliable equipment. If a rider wants to ride a bike with drilled out chainstays then that's their choice as long as it weighs more than 6.8kg its legal.
A factory team wants to ride a $1million bike, but it breaks. That's going to cost in reputation and results. No privateer team will buy it with the meagre sponsorships available..
So if we do away with the tech&feedzone there will be a reduction in cost but associated with that comes a drop in appeal as sponsors pay for their product being showcased on TV or livestream media. 
Also, there's a reduction in brand visibility on the course so less sponsorship money flows in due to that aspect.
The current format markets XCO as a high tech, high endorphin sport supported by wonky hippy but cool tech people. Its not like XCO has aero wheels, bars and other marginal gains to assist with its appeal. Its sold on component tech and rider strength and skill. I don't see doing away with techzones assisting that image


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I'm old enough to remember (as a fan, not as a racer) when the Grundig World Cup started, and all the discussions and media articles regarding NORBA rules (self-sufficiency) and when the Euros started introducing tech support, pit crews, etc. The North American riders were all about "the soul of the sport" and the Euros wanted it more like cyclocross.

As a side note, I always remember Tinker Juarez racing with partially inflated tubes stuffed in his pockets in those days, and Gerhard Zadrobilec saying that it wasn't fair that some races were held at high altitude.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

celswick said:


> I'm old enough to remember (as a fan, not as a racer) when the Grundig World Cup started, and all the discussions and media articles regarding NORBA rules (self-sufficiency) and when the Euros started introducing tech support, pit crews, etc. The North American riders were all about "the soul of the sport" and the Euros wanted it more like cyclocross.
> 
> As a side note, I always remember Tinker Juarez racing with partially inflated tubes stuffed in his pockets in those days, and Gerhard Zadrobilec saying that it wasn't fair that some races were held at high altitude.


Exactly. The NORBA series was king in the early days, and you just carried what you needed. I never did the partially inflated tube, as I sucked and saving a few minutes pumping up a new tube wasn't an issue. But before tubeless tires, you could easily pop a tire off a rim with your hands, changing a tube was easy and quick. Especially with 9mm quick releases and non-clutch rear derailleurs. It took longer opening your brakes up than anything. LOL. 

I remember actually getting a flat in a race, one of only 2 times ever, and instead of putting a new tube in, taking it out, walking down to a creek about 1 minute from the race, and using the water to find the leak, and drying it and putting on a sticky patch. I had everything I needed in my giant ugly seat pack.

Can you imagine seeing these racers stopping and fixing something at all? Do they even have a mini tool if their bars get tweaked or seat gets wrenched over? Do they even know how to work on a bike? Interesting state of the sport. Like F1 or something.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Can you imagine seeing these racers stopping and fixing something at all? Do they even have a mini tool if their bars get tweaked or seat gets wrenched over? Do they even know how to work on a bike? Interesting state of the sport. Like F1 or something.


It is always easy to say "Kids nowadays..."

Guess what, mechanicals happen in training all the time. Most racers are maintaining their own training bikes. They do all the age old on trail fixes that we did when we were racing back in the day. If anything, because of the easy access to educational resources racers are much more mechanically competant than racers of the past. The current female canadian national champion is a mechanic in a bike shop in the off season.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Do they have bleed kits in their garage? I'd love to know how many of them actually could build a bike outright. I have a hundred special tools just for one mtb. And I've been at it for 30 years. Imagine getting a new bike every year with new stuff. At some point, I'd just let someone else keep up with all the new tools and supplies. I have 10 bottles of different fluids sitting here. 

I still think some way to quickly blast a tire back up would more than pay for itself throughout a season. Doesn't anyone make a combo air/foam type product like that? Something that would truly plug darn near any hole instantly? Like I said, it would be a nasty fix, you'd have to trash the whole tire and clean the wheel, but at least it would help. Short of an entire blowout, tire flies off the rim kind of failure. 

Or better yet, someday when airless tires are the norm, we'll look back and laugh that we were pouring goop in our tires and still getting flats. The young guns won't even know what a flat is.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

It actually varies by the person and who they are. I'm no pro mechanic, but I do part time favors for a UCI Elite Team on local races and some in our continent. I've seen kids and older racers that are super adept to working on their bikes and I've seen others that don't even know how to change or fix a tubeless tire or fix a broken chain, which are two of the most common things that happen. My love for tools came with age as I hated waiting for any bike shop to fix my bike plus the fact that I moved to a bigger place and have the space to work on things. 

Now, up until a few years ago, probably before double tech and feed zones, some riders use to take some tools or CO2 canisters and even this. 



https://www.vittoria.com/ww/en/bike-accessories/tyre-sealant/pit-stop



That thing saved a few races for me in the past. 

No tech zones can do more harm than good. Having the ability to put the best show keeps fans engaged.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Yes, pitstop, that's the stuff I was thinking. Although I saw a brand that had a smaller can with a built in 90 degree nozzle, and system to mount to a post. 

Seems like that would be useful in most any race where your position matters. It's big, and ugly, and hard to hide, but seems like something that could be helpful.

I'm sure I'll get laughed at, but a broken chain does not have to be the end to an entire race if you had a master link or two, and even a basic chain tool in your pocket. Sure, you'd lose a minute, but you'd probably finish the race. And right on the start line? You have a lot of time to catch up and still go for it. Seems snapped chains, and flats are the two biggies that ruin a day. Yet no one has any way or desire to deal with them.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Yes, pitstop, that's the stuff I was thinking. Although I saw a brand that had a smaller can with a built in 90 degree nozzle, and system to mount to a post.
> 
> Seems like that would be useful in most any race where your position matters. It's big, and ugly, and hard to hide, but seems like something that could be helpful.
> 
> I'm sure I'll get laughed at, but a broken chain does not have to be the end to an entire race if you had a master link or two, and even a basic chain tool in your pocket. Sure, you'd lose a minute, but you'd probably finish the race. And right on the start line? You have a lot of time to catch up and still go for it. Seems snapped chains, and flats are the two biggies that ruin a day. Yet no one has any way or desire to deal with them.


That's just the same tech as tubeless sealant but with CO2 mixed in if I'm right.

I used to carry it when I was racing Triathlon in the 2006-2012 range. It's the same as the car cans.

It's no expanding foam, and I don't think that would work because a)I'm not sure it would go through the valve, b)the resulting filled tube wouldn't ride any better than the dead flat tyre, c)it'd be slower than rolling to the tech zone a lot of times.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Im sure I'll get laughed at, but a broken chain does not have to be the end to an entire race if you had a master link or two, and even a basic chain tool in your pocket. Sure, you'd lose a minute, but you'd probably finish the race. And right on the start line? You have a lot of time to catch up and still go for it. Seems snapped chains, and flats are the two biggies that ruin a day. Yet no one has any way or desire to deal with them.


Lots of riders have master links taped to their top tub and tire plugs often taped to cables. Those two things aren't quite standard practice but they are common. The calculus a rider makes is between stopping to fix it themselves or taking it to pit and getting it replaced. Most of the time on a WC course where there is 2-pits it is faster to go to the pits.

Absalon broke his chain at the start in Andora once (2013 I think) ran to the pits got a new chain on a rode through the field to a top 10.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

uintah said:


> So now you are determining what the rules would be? Got it.


Is that what you determined? Many people are on here making suggestions, but this one bothers you. Got it…..and of course this Brad guy likes your comment, that says it all.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

Brad said:


> I don't see any need to tweak anything. mechanical failures are quite rare Chain snap at the start, tyres puncture but we don't see exploding derailleurs or frames folding like we did in the 90's.
> 
> There are two areas you can work on your bike. Outside the bounds of the course or in the Tech&Feed Zone.
> Working on a bike on the wrong side of the tape comes with all sorts of issues. A rider cannot enlist outside assistance. More than a few don't even know what fits into those funny 6 sided socket head bolts.
> ...


Well there ya have it, Brad says leave it as it is…


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

All I know is, if I put in the time and effort, and cost, to get to a World Cup, I would want to not just cross my fingers and hope I didn't snap a chain and have a flat. Those are the two things that are most likely to stop you nowadays. So having zero ability to deal with this, instantly, on the spot that it happens, seems odd to me. In a short track, I get it, time is not on your side at all. Tech zones can be very far away, and hard to get to, up and down hills. Nino riding his flat was very lucky, because he didn't have far, and he didn't have to go downhill and around a zillion turns, all with people flying up behind him. He had a nice wide open shot. That I get. 

I've said all I can say, I don't think I'm nuts for wanting to see racers have more ability to keep themselves riding during a race. Cape Epic mentality, minus the backup teams, which I hate. 

Carry on with regular world cup programming.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Yes, pitstop, that's the stuff I was thinking. Although I saw a brand that had a smaller can with a built in 90 degree nozzle, and system to mount to a post.
> 
> Seems like that would be useful in most any race where your position matters. It's big, and ugly, and hard to hide, but seems like something that could be helpful.
> 
> I'm sure I'll get laughed at, but a broken chain does not have to be the end to an entire race if you had a master link or two, and even a basic chain tool in your pocket. Sure, you'd lose a minute, but you'd probably finish the race. And right on the start line? You have a lot of time to catch up and still go for it. Seems snapped chains, and flats are the two biggies that ruin a day. Yet no one has any way or desire to deal with them.


Michelin and BikeInnovations had mounting brackets available for their aerosol sealant canisters


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Brad said:


> More than a few don't even know what fits into those funny 6 sided socket head bolts.


For me a complete XCO/M racer has to know the ins' and outs' of his/her bike.

Not to the level of a mechanic...but, to be able to maintain and base service their tool of occupation.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> All I know is, if I put in the time and effort, and cost, to get to a World Cup, I would want to not just cross my fingers and hope I didn't snap a chain and have a flat. Those are the two things that are most likely to stop you nowadays. So having zero ability to deal with this, instantly, on the spot that it happens, seems odd to me. In a short track, I get it, time is not on your side at all. Tech zones can be very far away, and hard to get to, up and down hills. Nino riding his flat was very lucky, because he didn't have far, and he didn't have to go downhill and around a zillion turns, all with people flying up behind him. He had a nice wide open shot. That I get.
> 
> I've said all I can say, I don't think I'm nuts for wanting to see racers have more ability to keep themselves riding during a race. Cape Epic mentality, minus the backup teams, which I hate.
> 
> Carry on with regular world cup programming.


I don't think you're nuts, I just think what you're asking exists in XCM without the brilliant TV coverage


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> For me a complete XCO/M racer has to know the ins' and outs' of his/her bike.
> 
> Not to the level of a mechanic...but, to be able to maintain and base service their tool of occupation.


That would be like expecting Lewis Hamilton to be able to conduct a turbo charger service on F1 race car while I can assure you he doesn't even know where to find it!! He knows what it does, he knows when its not working properly but he knows didley squat about it actually does its job let aloe how to service it. or the rest of the car for that matter. At some point in the the formative formulae he did. 
Bicycles are nowhere near as complex but I still encounter riders who are phenomenal on the bike still describing a problem in the following way:
"its just no working!!"
"Whats not working...?"
"Something, the thing that makes this move that way.....!!!" < me grabbing bike and taking it for a ride to try and make sense of the problem in technical English....>
Some are far better than others. Guys like Nino, Alan, Thomas, know their bikes inside out really well. A guy like MvdP actually gives less than two hoots about things on his bike functions. He presses this it does that and thats enough for him. There are many riders who don't really think or care that much about the technical aspects of their bikes at the pro level. They have other things to distract them at this point in their career.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

I think your F1 comparison is "a bit" off.

And I am pretty sure MvdP knows his sh$it around bikes.

They didn't suddely wake up at 25y old and discovered bikes can be ridden for a life (Rogla out of equation .

There may be racers who don't know basics, but those are few and far between, and my guess, are not at the top of the game.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> I think your F1 comparison is "a bit" off.
> 
> And I am pretty sure MvdP knows his sh$it around bikes.
> 
> ...


you're welcome to disagree. I used F1 because its also a very technical sport. Also most o the drivers know their way around a go-kart engine, or an F3 engine, but once the work load starts to the increase they focus less on the how do I fix this to go racing, instead they become more specialised and leave the fixing to the mechanic while turning focus to the how do I go faster aspects. its a function of becoming more specialised as you operate at higher levels within a profession.
Similarly a pro bike racer will spend their formative years mulling over equipment and choices but when they get to the higher levels of the sport their job jar is vastly increased with sponsor duties, training, nutrition, recovery, rinse and repeat, they don't focus (as much as previously) on the technical aspects of their game. I'm not suggesting they all don't know an allen key from a monkey wrench and MvdP is certainly someone who knows his way around his tools but he is not the type to focus on how to fix a flat as quickly as possible, (but he can fix a flat) or how to tune his bikes gears trailside quickly (although he can tune gears) when it isn't going to help him win a race. He has a mechanic whose job it is to focus on the speed and quality of that activity. His job is too ride the bike as fast as possible. It is far easier to loose 30sec riding to the tech zone and have a professional mechanic conduct the repair than fiddle with it himself off the trail (since he's not allowed by the rules to work on his bike while on the course (except for lifting a chain back onto the chain ring).
There are many more industry and professional examples...
Heart surgeons specialise in heart surgery yet could probably assist with other types of surgery.
Plumbers focus on the mechanics of your toilet while a civil engineer focus on the design of the sewage system
firemen focus on putting out fires but civil engineers and plumbers ensure they have the water necessary to do their job.

lets look at it another way. Assume that you're a top racer but highly skilled with your tools so want to fix your on own bike during the race and want to carry tools....
Most likely failures on an MTB are
Chain = Chain breaker @ approx 90gr
puncture = Tyre plugger+plugs+CO2 canister and adaptor @approx 200gr
pinch flat = spare tube at 180gr + tyre levers at 50gr
Off centre stem post crash = Allen key set @60gr

= roughly an extra water bottle bouncing around in your back pocket or mounted to the frame when your competitors prefer to have a mechanic in the tech zone saving you the weight of tools and a water bottle (roughly 1kg)

If you're a top racer you're not going to give your competitor a 1kg free weight advantage. You would rather manage risk through your skill in bike handling than carry extra weight wouldn't you?
If you're an age group racer having fun with other mums or dads well then maybe you don't care so much and prefer the self sufficiency of carrying your own tools (not prohibited by the rules btw) to fix your own bike.

+ as mentioned previously self sufficiency is a requirement of successful XCM racing already so why try to make XCO into short track XCM?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Lose 30 seconds getting to a tech zone? Seriously? You could be 5 or 10 minutes from a tech zone, easily. And many of these courses, you’d be having a heck of a time riding a tire on rim very far. Nino only did what he did out of pure luck. He just happened to be close to the zone, and on a wide part of the course. It’s almost never 30 seconds away.

I’m not saying everyone should be a master mechanic. But training the racers on a quick self fix for the most common breakdowns would make sense. Chain breaking is happening for someone every race lately. Flats and chains. 2 things to be prepared for.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Lose 30 seconds getting to a tech zone? Seriously? You could be 5 or 10 minutes from a tech zone, easily. And many of these courses, you’d be having a heck of a time riding a tire on rim very far. Nino only did what he did out of pure luck. He just happened to be close to the zone, and on a wide part of the course. It’s almost never 30 seconds away.


Actually, he flatted as far from the that tech zone as it was possible to do so. He had the steepest and longest climb on the course to do, the 2nd longest descent, and 2nd longest climb to do to get to the tech zone. His flat was at the worst possible place for it happen.

A lot of people are funning foam inserts to improve the ride ability of a tire when flat. Nino wasn't running an insert but he still moved along pretty well.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

On that course, it worked out. Some are far worse I think. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

ShortTravelMag said:


> That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.


Usually a winning strategy. Especially useful in reasoned discourse. 

[edit to clarify tone above: tongue in cheek. Not meant to be a personal attack]

That said, I agree that context matters. 

Perhaps one shouldn’t discount the fact that most competitors are going to make the choices they feel maximizes their chance of success. The definition of success, of course, can have many facets for a given individual. 

The main point is I wouldn’t be so quick to assume Nino isn’t riding around an XCO track with an air can simply because he’s not smart enough to realize it may save his race if he flats in the x = small % of the course where it would be faster than riding to the tech zone on a flat. It’s a calculated risk. 

Consider, for example, that riders can easily evaluate which sections carry the most risk of a flat. They can then estimate the time it would take to get to a tech zone, vs fixing the flat + still stopping to change the wheel. 

Nino rode B lines in the first two world cups for various strategic reasons. These guys (especially this guy) are very calculated to the last detail. If Nino thought sticking a big ugly air horn on his seatpost would be the difference between 33 and 34… pretty sure we’d see the admiral. 

Nino is not alone, just an easy example.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> On that course, it worked out. Some are far worse I think. That’s my opinion and I’m sticking to it.


Which WC courses? 

I have been to most and Nova Mesto is considered to be trickiest to manage a flat.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I’ve only been to snowshoe so I’m clearly speaking out of my ass. But I’ve raced for 3 decades, and I can’t see a giant downside to being able to fix those two things on the spot.
He was also lucky all that riding didn’t pop the tire off. He’s be walking it in.


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## Salbutamol bass (Jul 16, 2021)

LMN said:


> Yes, but most sports make some attempt to control this.
> 
> And you still be dealing with more than 100 spare bike sitting some where in the tight confines of these WC courses.
> 
> I don’t think that there would be a lot of interest from even the big budget teams.


Well there are already rumblings of it being discussed which is how I came upon the info…Trek being one of them, which I’d say is a fairly large team?
If I had to speculate they will probably try to reduce the field size in some way so you don’t have 100 on the line which is kind of ridiculous anyhow.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

jrob300 said:


> I kinda like this.... if it was with today's rule, we would have been robbed of Cindy Whitehead epic performance, winning a 50 mile MTB race after her saddle fell off.
> 
> View attachment 1984225


In epic rides, one female pro rider gave another one her wheel and tire out on the 50 mile route since she had a fatal mechanical close to the other rider. 

The rider went on to podium on the borrowed wheel. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Goran_injo said:


> I think your F1 comparison is "a bit" off.
> 
> And I am pretty sure MvdP knows his sh$it around bikes.
> 
> ...


It’s not off at all. 

It’s a mixed bag of who can fix what. 

It ranges from Can’t change a tire to MacGyver. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> In epic rides, one female pro rider gave another one her wheel and tire out on the 50 mile route since she had a fatal mechanical close to the other rider.
> 
> The rider went on to podium on the borrowed wheel.
> 
> ...





FJSnoozer said:


> In epic rides, one female pro rider gave another one her wheel and tire out on the 50 mile route since she had a fatal mechanical close to the other rider.
> 
> The rider went on to podium on the borrowed wheel.
> 
> ...


Win actually.

Cost my wife several thousand dollars 😂😂😂


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

FJSnoozer said:


> It’s not off at all.
> 
> It’s a mixed bag of who can fix what.
> 
> ...


I am not convinced of the range, from a simple perspective of riders training a double digit per week hour rate, in nature, for many many years. You are bound to have problems you have to fix.

I am pretty certain all of them know the basics. And most succesufull of them know it all as the details around bike mechanics also make a better rider.

I am not at all arguing Nino should have a tire fix canister. He calculated his risks because he knows his equipment. Who am I to tutor profesional athletes that know their equipment and manage their risk.

I am managing my risk in a race and carry one. Why? I don't want to travel xx hours to a venue, have a flat and go home. I want to race while I am there.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I manage my risk similarly, but I think this reinforces my point that how you evaluate the risk is dependent on where you fit into the overall hierarchy of the sport. For amateurs we want to finish so we carry.
For pros they want to go as fast as possible so weight saving, and specialisation is their fastest route to the podium.
I think we have to separate the arguments into choices pros make vs the choices we would make


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Goran_injo said:


> For me a complete XCO/M racer has to know the ins' and outs' of his/her bike.
> 
> Not to the level of a mechanic...but, to be able to maintain and base service their tool of occupation.


I don't know how it's in cycling, but at least for skiing (literally any, from xc to alpine), where in one or the other role, I spent big part of my life in World cup, I can assure you most of top racers have absolutely no idea how skis are made and how to properly wax and prepare them. They might do semi decent job for training sessions, but nowhere near anything that would be good enough even for kids race. And in these times it's even worse... first parents take care of that, then coaches take care of that, and when good enough servicemen take care of that, so there's never need for racers to do this themself. In old days it was different, but nowadays they have no idea about this, and honestly, I don't think it's any different in mtb.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

It is...ski's are rather simple pieces of sports equimpment (not from point of manufacturing, but feom point of moving parts, items breaking).

They are not comparable at all. They are better compared to a tennis racket.

Bike is a perfect blend of simple enough to maintain, relatively easy to break, needs constant checking and parts replacing.

If you ride your bike for so many hours and depend on a wrench to do basic maintenance or adjustments, and need to call family to change a tire or tighten a caliper in the middle of nowhere...I mean everything is possible, but not probable.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

@Goran_injo while it's true skis are (pretty) simple piece of equipment, they still need to be properly prepared for every single training (or in case of alpine skis, for every single training run), yet big majority of racers are not capable of doing this. So with bikes being even more complex, it's pretty illusionary to expect, racers will be able to do this. Of course if we are talking about racers in teams with mechanics surrounding them. 
Sure I do all the bike maintenance and fixing myself, but I don't have and never had bike mechanic around, but I honestly don't think average pro would have any idea how to set derailleur to work properly. Changing flat tire maybe, fixing slightly more complicated things, I honestly doubt.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

Perhaps I am over romanticizing the sport. One of the reasons I like cycling is because it merges nature, elements, suffering, competition
AND technical aspect of assembling, maintaining and caring for a human propelled vehicle.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Goran_injo said:


> Perhaps I am over romanticizing the sport. One of the reasons I like cycling is because it merges nature, elements, suffering, competition
> AND technical aspect of assembling, maintaining and caring for a human propelled vehicle.


We’re not too different. I service my own bikes and teach people I coach to do the same. But I recognise there’s a point at which I have to let go. I hope the youngsters I’m working with get to the point they don’t need me, can fend for themselves and chose better people to take hem forward and that includes mechanics


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

@Goran_injo I like doing this things too, and for most of my racing career I was taking care of my own skis, and had only few years when I was lucky (good?) enough to have serviceman, but I always liked to do this, that's reason why I have spent some years, after I quit racing, in World cup as serviceman. But thing is, it's a bit different for top athletes. For them it's job and bugging with bike (or skis in my case) it's not something you want to do nor have time to do. You train, eat and sleep... taking care of equipment is distraction that hinder your regeneration, and there are people paid to do this, so on one side I understand them, they don't bother with this. But even if we like to do this ourself, we can't really compare us, no matter how serious someone might take recreational racing, with top athletes who have team around themself. And for them, 10.000+eur worth bike is not thing of worship but just a tool, which will get emotionless changed tomorrow for new one.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I'm throwing another topic and a cat amongst the pigeons...

Off all road racers in the World Tour, and you can not include those who dabble or raced CX and MTB in the past, who could be a top level XCO athlete? I'll say either Alaphilippe on Vincenzo Nibali. Both climb very well and are explosive (Nibali not so much nowadays) and almost nobody can tough them descending. Maybe Mohoric and Valverde also...


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> I'm throwing another topic and a cat amongst the pigeons...
> 
> Off all road racers in the World Tour, and you can not include those who dabble or raced CX and MTB in the past, who could be a top level XCO athlete? I'll say either Alaphilippe on Vincenzo Nibali. Both climb very well and are explosive (Nibali not so much nowadays) and almost nobody can tough them descending. Maybe Mohoric and Valverde also...


But Alaphilippe was an accomplished CX racer!  I think WC juniors or something. I think a lot of the Euros race CX in their youth, I remember seeing Andy Schleck's name in a junior WC result sheet.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

ewarnerusa said:


> But Alaphilippe was an accomplished CX racer!  I think WC juniors or something. I think a lot of the Euros race CX in their youth, I remember seeing Andy Schleck's name in a junior WC result sheet.


Didn't knew that...

Yeah, even Pogacar race CX this winter...


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## Mucker (Feb 14, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I’ve only been to snowshoe so I’m clearly speaking out of my ass. But I’ve raced for 3 decades, and I can’t see a giant downside to being able to fix those two things on the spot.
> He was also lucky all that riding didn’t pop the tire off. He’s be walking it in.


I agree with you that it would make sense for a pro to carry a chain tool, master link, co2, and a plug but in my experience(also 3 decades or racing) there's no guarantee that a pro can do the fix fast enough trailside minimize time loss. 

My last two flats were both pinch flats. I couldn't get the hole at the rim to seal either time either time and had to put in a tube. 

The last time I broke a chain in a race, I had to pull out the chain breaker, remove the broken link, and install the new link. I did it at the start and it took way longer than I'd have liked(at least 5 min). I ended up having to ride through three different age groups to catch up with with the back of my group.

If I was a pro, I'd try to get to the tech zone on the flat to minimize time loss. The fix may be simple but in a race situation with my mind and body in race mode, stopping to fix adds another element of risk which would increase the time loss.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Didn't knew that...
> 
> Yeah, even Pogacar race CX this winter...


I get a kick out of reading about Heinrich Haussler discovering CX so late in his cycling career. Now he is racing World Cups in the winter and talking about how he wished he discovered CX when he was a kid!

OK, so I can stay on topic, I also remember seeing the Big Air cans on seat posts at World Cup XC races in years past. Same with local XC scene, so I copied. I have only used it once, in an enduro race ironically. I still put the Big Air can on my seatpost (I have them leftover from my hobby XC racing habit from a decade ago!) for the rare long events that I still occasionally do and I'm the only one out there with one.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Goran_injo said:


> Perhaps I am over romanticizing the sport. One of the reasons I like cycling is because it merges nature, elements, suffering, competition
> AND technical aspect of assembling, maintaining and caring for a human propelled vehicle.


Obviously I can't speak for every athlete.

But last year I was coach the top 3 UCI ranked female riders in Canada. One of them, is a bike mechanic in the off season, the other builds all their race bikes from frame up and worked in a shops when she was younger, the third (my wife) is competant enough go to a stage race and handle all the normal issues that happen to a bike during a weeklong race.

My experience is that most athletes are moderately competant as mechanics. They may not be fast but they can tune a bike to make it race ready. Some newer racers have some learning to do, but with time they generally build their mechanic skills.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ewarnerusa said:


> I get a kick out of reading about Heinrich Haussler discovering CX so late in his cycling career. Now he is racing World Cups in the winter and talking about how he wished he discovered CX when he was a kid!
> 
> OK, so I can stay on topic, I also remember seeing the Big Air cans on seat posts at World Cup XC races in years past. Same with local XC scene, so I copied. I have only used it once, in an enduro race ironically. I still put the Big Air can on my seatpost (I have them leftover from my hobby XC racing habit from a decade ago!) for the rare long events that I still occasionally do and I'm the only one out there with one.


What has changed is the laps have gotten shorter. Ten years ago some WCs had 25-30 minute laps. When the laps were that long it was faster to repair your tire yourself. Now the laps are as short as 10-12 minutes, worst case you are 5 minutes from a tech zone.

Probably the best strategy for someone who wants to play it safe is to race with foam inserts. A foam insert can be ridden pretty darn quickly without air, resulting in minimal time loss on the trip to the pits.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

LMN said:


> Obviously I can't speak for every athlete.
> 
> But last year I was coach the top 3 UCI ranked female riders in Canada. One of them, is a bike mechanic in the off season, the other builds all their race bikes from frame up and worked in a shops when she was younger, the third (my wife) is competant enough go to a stage race and handle all the normal issues that happen to a bike during a weeklong race.
> 
> My experience is that most athletes are moderately competant as mechanics. They may not be fast but they can tune a bike to make it race ready. Some newer racers have some learning to do, but with time they generally build their mechanic skills.


Canadians were always outliers


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Martin Tjallingii does pretty well at XCO and XCM. Thankfully I don’t race in the same age category as he does..

@LMN the point of lap distance and time is actually key to the discussion on bike repairs in a race. With the short laps we have now the vector physics says it’s quicker to keep moving and having a tyre or chain replaced than to try ms repair. If the repair takes longer than 10min you’re lapped and out so there’s no incentive to try and repair trail side


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> the point of lap distance and time is actually key to the discussion on bike repairs in a race. With the short laps we have now the vector physics says it’s quicker to keep moving and having a tyre or chain replaced than to try ms repair. If the repair takes longer than 10min you’re lapped and out so there’s no incentive to try and repair trail side


In my opinion, the adoption of tubeless tires has really changed the math on this. Another poster hinted at this earlier. With old-school non-tubeless, an efficient tube change and inflation using co2 was usually about 90 seconds for someone who was well-practiced.

For myself, I used to do a couple of practice changes in the early season before racing started to make sure I still had my routine dialled in. Front changes were sometimes closer to a minute flat. A key for this was making sure I had a tire and rim combo that I could get on and off the bead without levers. With the fit on the rim of current tubeless tires, I often need levers now, or else in a best-case scenario some extended time to work it on/off the bead with my hands. Even though I don't really care about the mess in a race situation, having sealant all over stuff adds a little time also.

The bottom line is that trailside flat fixes are not the same as they used to be. In the vast majority of cases now in world cup settings, I agree with you in that I expect the math would support riding it out to a tech zone as the most time-efficient solution.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Mucker said:


> I agree with you that it would make sense for a pro to carry a chain tool, master link, co2, and a plug but in my experience(also 3 decades or racing) there's no guarantee that a pro can do the fix fast enough trailside minimize time loss.
> 
> My last two flats were both pinch flats. I couldn't get the hole at the rim to seal either time either time and had to put in a tube.
> 
> ...


I agree with you,

But also, you really need to carry a dynaplug racer. It’s amazing, and will plug a nasty punch flat with multiple holes, on the rim faster than you can ride it to the pit and swap a wheel. 











Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## JoePAz (May 7, 2012)

Brad said:


> @LMN the point of lap distance and time is actually key to the discussion on bike repairs in a race. With the short laps we have now the vector physics says it’s quicker to keep moving and having a tyre or chain replaced than to try ms repair. If the repair takes longer than 10min you’re lapped and out so there’s no incentive to try and repair trail side


There is another factor. Wheel costs. When I flat I am going to either stop and repair it or very gingerly ride out because I can't afford to damage a wheel. Not all pro race teams have wads of cash, but the top teams can deal with busted up wheel more easily than a normal person. So it means risking wheel damage from riding on flat for a short time is less of an issue.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ewarnerusa said:


> But Alaphilippe was an accomplished CX racer!  I think WC juniors or something. I think a lot of the Euros race CX in their youth, I remember seeing Andy Schleck's name in a junior WC result sheet.


He was - a silver medal at the Junior Worlds...and probably should have won, he got his sprint all wrong. And of course Sagan was a silver in the Junior CX Worlds, but then went one better in the XC MTB Worlds. 

Pogacar was actually National CX champion a few years ago - and won a race over Christmas, but it's not a very high level.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Side tangent but related to UCI World Cup: why isn’t there an equivalent thread to this one for downhill? Always wondered about that. Maybe I just can’t find it or it lives inside a different thread title. Or just no interest?


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## JimiMimni (Jun 2, 2008)

MattMay said:


> Side tangent but related to UCI World Cup: why isn’t there an equivalent thread to this one for downhill? Always wondered about that. Maybe I just can’t find it or it lives inside a different thread title. Or just no interest?


I'm sure there is one somewhere, but this is specifically the XCO/XCM/Endurance forum. Alternatively, Pinkbike is the home of all things gravity oriented. (Not trying to be snarky here, so apologies if that reads terse or rude.)


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

MattMay said:


> Side tangent but related to UCI World Cup: why isn’t there an equivalent thread to this one for downhill? Always wondered about that. Maybe I just can’t find it or it lives inside a different thread title. Or just no interest?


Looks like the guys in the DH/Freeride forum just don't care about racing?


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

MattMay said:


> Side tangent but related to UCI World Cup: why isn’t there an equivalent thread to this one for downhill? Always wondered about that. Maybe I just can’t find it or it lives inside a different thread title. Or just no interest?


LOL I was thinking of starting one the other day, i always watch the DH


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

theMISSIONARY said:


> LOL I was thinking of starting one the other day, i always watch the DH


And per IG, it looks like Claudio is back (at least for this week 🤷‍♂️) which is awesome. 

Love his course previews. I have watched many with my five year old 🤣.


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## Jayem (Jul 16, 2005)

MattMay said:


> Side tangent but related to UCI World Cup: why isn’t there an equivalent thread to this one for downhill? Always wondered about that. Maybe I just can’t find it or it lives inside a different thread title. Or just no interest?


Ridemonkey


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

NordieBoy said:


> Looks like the guys in the DH/Freeride forum just don't care about racing?


You might be on to something; I've had a theory for a while that MTB as a whole is more about taking part and having fun, rather than the professional racing side. I watched the recent GMBN Dirt Shed show, and they spent barely a minute on the Nove Mesto World Cup; GCN has a complete show dedicated to racing news.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Exmuhle said:


> Pogacar was actually National CX champion a few years ago - and won a race over Christmas, but it's not a very high level.


CX is non-existing sport over here, so Pogacar winning CX NC doesn't really mean much. It's race of few kids, maybe a Protour rider or two who went to that race for fun, and few old recreational racers, who heard CX is cool 2 or 3 years ago  
As for Mohoric and his mtb abilities, he do it fine, but I have been riding with him few times in past, and he's definitely nothing really impressive on mtb, even for hobby rider like myself, especially when you consider his skills on road, where he really is impressive... at least for me.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Well there is quite a difference between a road descent on Tarmac, and a XC descent on rocks, roots, loose surfaces......


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Well there is quite a difference between a road descent on Tarmac, and a XC descent on rocks, roots, loose surfaces......


Yep, we're going much slower


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Call me crazy, but for those watching the Giro, MvDP looks very slim with a ton of power. I wonder how a Grand Tour will affect or benefit his XCO abilities for 2023 and beyond.


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## euro-trash (Feb 9, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Call me crazy. but for those watching the Giro, MvDP looks ver slim with a ton of power. I wonder how a Grand Tour will affect or benefit his XCO abilities for 2023 and beyond.


He has said he feels he needs a couple grand tours in his legs to improve as a classics rider. The last hour of a 7 hour race is where the base miles of 3 week stage races theoretically help (makes sense). I can't see it hurting. But I don't see him doing many XC races anymore. I see him reducing his CX schedule like Wout, and focusing on the classics and stage hunting. 
If I had to guess, most years he'll do 1 grand tour, so it will leave the door open for the occasional XC world cup, but they will be the exception, not the rule. He has unfinished business with Roubaix, MSR, and road worlds. And, he has a chance to tie or break the Ronde record. Those are his focus now.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> Call me crazy. but for those watching the Giro, MvDP looks ver slim with a ton of power. I wonder how a Grand Tour will affect or benefit his XCO abilities for 2023 and beyond.


It has obviously done nothing to help Tom Pidcock. 😉


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

euro-trash said:


> He has unfinished business with Roubaix, MSR, and road worlds. And, he has a chance to tie or break the Ronde record. Those are his focus now.


He also has unfinished business with MTB Olympics and Worlds...


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

uintah said:


> It has obviously done nothing to help Tom Pidcock. 😉


Pidcock is naturally a better XCO racer than MvdP. MvdP had to work hard and pay some dues before he won his first WC XCO race. Pidcock just shows up and wins.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Exactly. The NORBA series was king in the early days, and you just carried what you needed. I never did the partially inflated tube, as I sucked and saving a few minutes pumping up a new tube wasn't an issue. But before tubeless tires, you could easily pop a tire off a rim with your hands, changing a tube was easy and quick. Especially with 9mm quick releases and non-clutch rear derailleurs. It took longer opening your brakes up than anything. LOL.
> 
> I remember actually getting a flat in a race, one of only 2 times ever, and instead of putting a new tube in, taking it out, walking down to a creek about 1 minute from the race, and using the water to find the leak, and drying it and putting on a sticky patch. I had everything I needed in my giant ugly seat pack.
> 
> Can you imagine seeing these racers stopping and fixing something at all? Do they even have a mini tool if their bars get tweaked or seat gets wrenched over? Do they even know how to work on a bike? Interesting state of the sport. Like F1 or something.


The same racers you speak off do this all the time in other events and Marathon events. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Pidcock is naturally a better XCO racer than MvdP. MvdP had to work hard and pay some dues before he won his first WC XCO race. Pidcock just shows up and wins.


Perhaps you’re right, however Mvdp did enter XCO when Nino was at the peak of his abilities whereas Pidcock arrived in a period where Nino was deflated and there was more competition


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Call me crazy, but for those watching the Giro, MvdP looks very slim with a ton of power. I wonder how a Grand Tour will affect or benefit his XCO abilities for 2023 and beyond.


He's ripped, but he's got a massive frame; just look at the guys who caught and passed him. He must be 10-15 kg heavier......

I don't think we saw the best of him last season, in fact, he wasn't anywhere near his 2019 level; that is the best XCO version of MvdP we have seen. I do hope we see him on top form in any XC World Cups we see him in next year.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> He's ripped, but he's got a massive frame; just look at the guys who caught and passed him. He must be 10-15 kg heavier......


6' tall, 75kg.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

euro-trash said:


> He has said he feels he needs a couple grand tours in his legs to improve as a classics rider....
> If I had to guess, most years he'll do 1 grand tour...He has unfinished business with Roubaix, MSR, and road worlds. And, he has a chance to tie or break the Ronde record. Those are his focus now.


I haven't seen it (admitted not so up-to-date on interviews), but I always thought he might be a "green jersey" guy (a la Hushovd). It'd be cool to see him pick up a few flat stages in the Tour and go on a few epic breaks.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> He's ripped, but he's got a massive frame; just look at the guys who caught and passed him. He must be 10-15 kg heavier......
> 
> I don't think we saw the best of him last season, in fact, he wasn't anywhere near his 2019 level; that is the best XCO version of MvdP we have seen. I do hope we see him on top form in any XC World Cups we see him in next year.


Well, he was pulling a break along and attacked a break. The guys who caught him, for the most part, had been sitting in the wheels all day. 

I’m guessing he did 20% more work (kJ) than any of the GC guys on that stage. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Well, he was pulling a break along and attacked a break. The guys who caught him, for the most part, had been sitting in the wheels all day.
> 
> I’m guessing he did 20% more work (kJ) than any of the GC guys on that stage.


He makes things more exciting, that's for sure


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> Well, he was pulling a break along and attacked a break. The guys who caught him, for the most part, had been sitting in the wheels all day.
> 
> I’m guessing he did 20% more work (kJ) than any of the GC guys on that stage.
> 
> ...


Possibly; if it had been a flat finish he'd have held on. However, it was an 8km climb at about 9%.......he's not holding off lightweight climbers/ GC guys on that, even with a 3 min lead.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Twitter link to video might work…

Mathieu Van Der Poel at the end of the Giro:


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1530920208520597507


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Not World Cup, but Avancini won the Panamericano XCO, after losing the XCC to Ulloa.


__
http://instagr.am/p/CeJyACAuKdf/


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/adrie-van-der-poel-says-son-mathieu-might-only-do-mtb-in-2024/


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It's a nice thought, and I'd love to see it, but really? His team/sponsors will surely want him in the spring classics, and the Tour, even if it's just for a week again.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I think he’d be surprised at the level of talent by 2024. The young guns will be even faster. I bet he’d be lucky to outright win one World Cup. The new generation is so fast. But I’d love to see him try a whole season.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I think he’d be surprised at the level of talent by 2024. The young guns will be even faster. I bet he’d be lucky to outright win one World Cup. The new generation is so fast. But I’d love to see him try a whole season.


If he doesn't ride his MTB for a couple of years he'll be starting from scratch and won't win anything in 2024. He might as well stick with the road and forget about MTB racing.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

With the Olympic qualifying period now started, the Netherlands will need riders scoring points; Vader is still recovering from injury, (and who knows when he's back on the MTB), so MvdP will need to race MTB next season, 2024 is too late. As long as he has a Top 10 ranking in either Road/ CX, he'll get a Row 5 start in the XCO World Cups.

I don't think racing only 2 World Cups last season did him any favours, especially after nearly 2 years off the MTB - even for someone as talented as him.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> If he doesn't ride his MTB for a couple of years he'll be starting from scratch and won't win anything in 2024. He might as well stick with the road and forget about MTB racing.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> I don't think racing only 2 World Cups last season did him any favours, especially after nearly 2 years off the MTB - even for someone as talented as him.


He certainly isn't as naturally talented as Tom Pidcock on the MTB. MvdP needs to do XCO races to get back to his winning ways.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I think he’d be surprised at the level of talent by 2024. The young guns will be even faster. I bet he’d be lucky to outright win one World Cup. The new generation is so fast. But I’d love to see him try a whole season.


I think you’ve missed something. The Dutch article suggests that he will exclusively race Mtb in 2024. No road, no cx.he will likely race Mtb in 2023 as schedule allows


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It’s kind of crazy to suggest that someone who blew the #1 rider in the world (at that time) out of the water will have a hard time beating theoretical young kids who have never come close to his results. 

The only “young” kid that he’d have to worry about, so far, is Pidcock. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Thank you Le Duke for saying what I was thinking. LOL MVdP is a force of nature, as well as Pidcock, as well as Schurter. Yeah, he would be a bit rusty and need to knock the dust off. But I bet he would win an XCC pretty much right away, putting him back on the front row, putting him back and the pointy end from the start. I'm sure he can figure it out from there.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Over the past couple of years I have spent a lot of time looking an analyzing how long the typical champion is at the top. And by champion I mean the dominate rider of the time.

The norm is 3-5 years. Riders like:
Sagan, Froome, Absalon, Gunrita, Indurain, Van der Breggan, Neff, Vos, Pendrel, Bressette, Kulhavy, Prevot ect... All had at *most* a 5 year period where there were a factor in nearly every race. After that period they still competed for the wins and won but those days were fewer and farther between. Nino is the lone exception to this as far as I can see.

Van der Poel really appeared as massive force in cycling in 2018. 2024 will be six years.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Over the past couple of years I have spent a lot of time looking an analyzing how long the typical champion is at the top. And by champion I mean the dominate rider of the time.
> 
> The norm is 3-5 years. Riders like:
> Sagan, Froome, Absalon, Gunrita, Indurain, Van der Breggan, Neff, Vos, Pendrel, Bressette, Kulhavy, Prevot ect... All had at *most* a 5 year period where there were a factor in nearly every race. After that period they still competed for the wins and won but those days were fewer and farther between. Nino is the lone exception to this as far as I can see.
> ...


2019 and 2022 have been his best years as far as consistency and results. Yes, he won Flanders on a weird 2020, and from there, I think his engine has only grown bigger. If MVdP would show up for couple of CX WC races and won, it would pretty hard to argue that he lacks the explosiveness. Now, if his back problems are gone, he would be a real problem for a lot of people.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

As an 'all round cyclist' I think 2019 was his best year/season. CX World Cup wins, CX World title, World Tour road wins, XCC/XCO World Cup wins, and a European XCO title...plus lots of other wins on all terrains. 
Saying that, he was an Elite CX World champion in 2015, when he'd only just turned 20, and had already won Elite CX World Cups/ Superprestige races.

It will be interesting to see when he goes back to CX; I've no reason to doubt that his explosiveness won't be there - however as we've seen in others, the long road rides and training can blunt it.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

He’s not walking away from CX or XCO. 
he’s not racing XCO in 2022 to give his back time to recover fully, he’ll be racing cx after the road season but only after a rest period as I understand it.
In2023 he’s back to cx , XCO and Road with the classics and grand tours the focus and XCO as schedule allows. In 2024 he’s dad suggests he race XCO exclusively but still ride road races but not focussing on peak performance on the road. This is to provide the necessary focus to take the Olympic Games XCO race on as professionally as he should have in 2021…


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Forces of nature can be measured by the language of nature: *watts/kg*.

I'm seeing Pidcock possessing what by itself wouldn't be eyebrow-raising even in a Wednesday local fast group ride: 343w FTP. However it's being pushed uphill by only a 56kg body. Doing the long division, that's what gives him a world-class 6.1 w/kg and allows him to just pedal away from everybody.

MVDP has a lot of watts and relatively speaking for some types of racing like XCO, a high amount of kg. 420/75. That puts him at 5.6 w/kg, which of course isn't the whole story. He can dive deep into threshold repeatedly and he has a frightening top end, able to still throw out a nearly 1400-watt jump after five hours.


https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/analysis-mathieu-van-der-poels-1300-watt-strade-bianche-winning-power-data/



This is also why I think you see MVDP taking off early since his top end gives him an ability to temporarily overwhelm his weight disadvantage, but a lot of times he regresses back to the mean because XCO is still about watts/kg average over a 60-75 minute period, aka FTP.

Considering they both handle the MTB relatively well, this explains why Pidcock and MVDP can show up any time and ruin the party for XCO GOAT Nino Schurter (~385/67 @ 5.7 w/kg), despite his clear skill advantage on descents.

I believe in Albstadt they were clocking this at a 1-second time advantage for Schurter on the descents, but a 5-7 second advantage on the climbs for Pidcock. 

I truly admire the gym workouts that I see Nino and others doing, but I wonder if packing on extra muscle isn't counter-productive overall. Ultimately I see Pidcock riding away from anyone in any XCO race he enters, unless the other two rivals drop weight.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

What does a pro cyclist FTP look like? • ProCyclingUK.com


What is FTP cycling? FTP is the acronym for Functional Threshold Power. In theory this is the max power that you can sustain for an hour's riding. Once



procyclinguk.com


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I would eat my hat if MVDP has a 420w FTP. 

That seems impossibly low.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> I would eat my hat if MVDP has a 420w FTP.
> 
> That seems impossibly low.
> 
> ...


I think that was @Brad's point


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> I would eat my hat if MVDP has a 420w FTP.
> 
> That seems impossibly low.
> 
> ...


420-450 would be my guess.

It seems like 450 is around the upper limit of what people of any size can produce for an hour.

But I suspect MVDP ability to do repeated efforts well north of threshold is some kind of special. And that might be more important in XCO racing than your ability to hold a high watts/kg for an hour.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> 420-450 would be my guess.
> 
> It seems like 450 is around the upper limit of what people of any size can produce for an hour.
> 
> But I suspect MVDP ability to do repeated efforts well north of threshold is some kind of special. And that might be more important in XCO racing than your ability to hold a high watts/kg for an hour.


Which if you’re doing an hour TT could deliver a higher FTP value.
I think peeps are too obsessed with FTP and not other abilities that play a bigger role. He happily publishes his power data which tells me he’s not to concerned about people knowing it. His lactate threshold would be interesting but also as you say, his ability to repeat those efforts seems extra ordinary


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

On Strava his FTP is 428w and 75kg


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The guy has watts...yes we know it...if not, how can you explain his TT results? I mean, he has placed very high in Grand Tour TT against what we can think are the best at it...and he doesn't even train for the discipline!!!


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I would love to see people drop the obsession with the Olympics. I understand why people give it the weight that they do, but 1) they are living in the past--the Olympics is not what it was when we saw Franz Klamer, Olga Korbut, Carl Lewis, etc. and 2) it never made sense to have a 1x/every four year event for sports (ie most sports) where people's careers at the top are so short. All of these sports have an annual world championships which are already prestigious, and which should serve as the pinnacle of competition in that sport. Why should every fourth year be seen as more significant? Particularly when the Olympics themselves have become so political and polarizing, with financial issues pushing most western venues not to bid, and thus pushing the games to China and Russia, with all that entails. Add to this the fact that the organization and format of the competitions in the Olympics typically differs from the standard for the sport, so that you tend to get distorted performances. The one that I think of distinctly is the women's cycling road race in Rio, where the course was laid out in a mossy rainforest, leading to Annemieke van Vleuten's horrific crash-out while leading. And then Mara Abbott was chased down a few meters from the end because the race was laid out with a long flat finish after the climb--which isn't unheard of in non-Olympic road races, but I would argue this isn't how you should set it up for the most "prestigious" race on the calendar.

So I invite MVDP to just race his MTB and forget how it relates to the Olympics.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> On Strava his FTP is 428w and 75kg


I have seen this . There are figures ranging from 420 to 485W and weight ranging from 72kg to 78kg, all reasonable depending on where he is in his racing season. FTP and weight are generally not fixed numbers , they do vary within a range


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

paramount3 said:


> I would love to see people drop the obsession with the Olympics. I understand why people give it the weight that they do, but 1) they are living in the past--the Olympics is not what it was when we saw Franz Klamer, Olga Korbut, Carl Lewis, etc. and 2) it never made sense to have a 1x/every four year event for sports (ie most sports) where people's careers at the top are so short. All of these sports have an annual world championships which are already prestigious, and which should serve as the pinnacle of competition in that sport. Why should every fourth year be seen as more significant? Particularly when the Olympics themselves have become so political and polarizing, with financial issues pushing most western venues not to bid, and thus pushing the games to China and Russia, with all that entails. Add to this the fact that the organization and format of the competitions in the Olympics typically differs from the standard for the sport, so that you tend to get distorted performances. The one that I think of distinctly is the women's cycling road race in Rio, where the course was laid out in a mossy rainforest, leading to Annemieke van Vleuten's horrific crash-out while leading. And then Mara Abbott was chased down a few meters from the end because the race was laid out with a long flat finish after the climb--which isn't unheard of in non-Olympic road races, but I would argue this isn't how you should set it up for the most "prestigious" race on the calendar.
> 
> So I invite MVDP to just race his MTB and forget how it relates to the Olympics.


Don't watch them then. If you've ever known an athlete that has participated in an Olympic Games or spent time working towards meeting the standards of qualification you may have a different understanding of the game's importance to an athlete. Your political/economic slant doesn't hold much water considering the next two hosts of the Summer Games are Paris and Los Angeles.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

For a lot of sports, the Olympics is still the BIG one; and those athletes want to be there. Here in the UK, being an Olympian is a big thing, and being an Olympic champion can be career/ life changing. 

I do understand why some people might not like them (and the process of bidding) , but it would be a sad place if they were discontinued.

In other news, from her instagram post, Evie will miss the Leogang World Cup with her back issue, which she's had since February.


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## Goran_injo (Jul 4, 2007)

What makes olympics even more important for an athlete, is that it is every 4 years. You don't get a lot of shots getting gold or a podium there.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Generally a big rider like MVDP or Wout or Gana have problems climbing at their FTPs. They can produce that kind of power on the flat but they can't do it climbing. 

The problem is cooling, at 50km/hr they are going fast enough to get good convective cooling, but at slower speeds their cooling system isn't big enough to handle the massive amount of thermal energy they are creating. In someways mountain biking is even harder on them. The slower speeds and ultra high peak power outputs makes cooling particularly challenging.

You saw this in the Giro. When it was cold MVDP could climb really well, but the second it got warm he had to slow down.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> You saw this in the Giro. When it was cold MVDP could climb really well, but the second it got warm he had to slow down.


At the extreme end, Eddie Hall at his biggest, would wear t-shirts and shorts in winter in England and be sweating. Huge muscles generating heat with a thick fat layer over top.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Evie Richards and PFP are not racing in Leogang this weekend.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Tease....


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Evie taking time out for her back to heal and PFP in prep for French champs will be back at Lenzerheide


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Extended UCI and Warner Bros. Discovery partnership signals exciting new era for the UCI Mountain Bike World Cup


Warner Bros. Discovery has been appointed by the Union Cycliste Internationale (UCI) to advance the sport of mountain biking in new eight-year agreement.




www.eurosport.co.uk
 




More details on the new deal; one fears they're going to do something drastic, and not an evolution of the current coverage. The EWS coverage could be better.....


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

They do a really good job with road, and especially track racing, so that gives me a good feeling that they will be able to do it for mtb also. I'm curious whether it will be rolled into GCN+, or will have it's stand alone package where GMBN does their own shows like GCN does today. Time will tell I guess, but selfishly I would like to see it all in one giant cycling package.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

They don't produce any of the road coverage, they merely use the pictures provided by the host broadcaster; they just add their own commentary. They're going to be doing the lot with the MTB coverage. 
It will be interesting to see when they announce something more concrete later in the season.


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Short track results must have left everyone speechless.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Return to 2021 form for Flueckiger and Lecomte? Dominant wins.

Interesting racing from Haley Batten. Bohe looked strong for a long time. Mitterwallner showed another slow start but looks like she'll be finishing way, way up the field on Sunday with that climbing.

Looking forward to seeing the Kiwi's in action on Sunday. Three quality results from controlled rides.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It would be hard not to bet against either Lecomte or Flueckiger winning on Sunday. Loana looks back on top form, and almost seemed effortless when climbing - the XCO will have the longer climbs, which will suit her. And the enigma that is Mona - she just has no explosivity and loses so many places at the start; however, this course should enable her to make places up, but will Loana have gone by then? 
Matthias also looks back in form, and this course should suit him; Vlad is consistent and maybe near the front - and Nino can never be discounted, even though he never looks as good here.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

I wish they'd had a camera on the base of that ramp up to the bridge before the pump track. Seems like quite a few people had issues there that cost a lot of time because they had to dismount and walk the ramp.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I know I’m hating and: no, I’m not a UCI pro, but… has anyone ever discussed with Henri: you ever think of sitting in, on 4h or 5th wheel, and saving some energy for the last two laps?

interestingly, Terpstra seemed to indicate thats what she did…and it worked pretty ok for her.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

smartyiak said:


> I know I’m hating and: no, I’m not a UCI pro, but… has anyone ever discussed with Henri: you ever think of sitting in, on 4h or 5th wheel, and saving some energy for the last two laps?


There's a saying that it's hard to teach an "old dog new tricks". Henri is in his 30's now...if he were going to learn I think it would have happened before now.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

MattMay said:


> Short track results must have left everyone speechless.


Rob Warner; Speechless......does not compute. But really, I wasn't seriously surprised by Friday's results, it was a near carbon copy of '21. I think the results of Saturday's men's downhill were more noteworthy.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Was that first time ever Mitterwalner had his bars bent ?


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Was that first time ever Mitterwalner had his bars bent ?


Maybe she knew she couldn't straighten them herself based on past attempts. I mean, it's Mona Mitterwalner.

Her mechanic seemed to take forever, though.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

I wonder if there was damage to the brake or shift lever that needed fixing? It also looked like her timing chip was dangling off the fork, but that should be a quick fix


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Either way she has really crap luck and it’s impacting her ability to race the way she needs to race to perform as expected


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Her bad starts can't help; going backwards as people behind try to gain places.....


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I thought she did an awesome job going from last and running to what was it in the end ..15th? . Bec did as I expected, it is a climbing course and now others seem to be in form, the rest of the year will be interesting.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Good racing all around.

Hard to make any prediction for rest of the season off of this race. This singleton June race was more a test of who can race best with heavy legs from training. Everybody just finished a pretty big training block, and some people do not race very well with heavy legs.

For the next rounds:
Women: Anna Terpstra for Andora and Jenny for Lenzerheid.
Men: Vlad for Andora and Nino for Lenzerheid.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> Good racing all around.
> 
> Hard to make any prediction for rest of the season off of this race. This singleton June race was more a test of who can race best with heavy legs from training. Everybody just finished a pretty big training block, and some people do not race very well with heavy legs.
> 
> ...


Gonna go out on a limb and say Nino never wins another WC.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Gonna go out on a limb and say Nino never wins another WC.


I would say that’s directly dependant on Tom Pidcock’s schedule. I still like Nino’s chances.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I wonder if there was damage to the brake or shift lever that needed fixing? It also looked like her timing chip was dangling off the fork, but that should be a quick fix


That was clearly her whole disc caliper hanging off. Those forks have a quick release to release the whole caliper, but not like a old quick release, it takes more than just popping a lever, so how it came off completely is unknown I guess. At the very least I would have simply did the old wheel in between knees and cranked on the bars, then rode to the pit with the brake caliper hanging, or just grab the caliper and hang on to it. She had only a wide uphill to go, no tricky singletrack. She's young, like, real young. And probably never had anything like that happen. This is why the older riders haul butt to get in the front group. So much potential for carnage back there. I'm shocked every single race doesn't have a crash at the start that takes out half the riders. She genuinely was devastated. Whereas veterans would have probably just shrugged it off as another bad day. But being in her home town and all...I can see why she's so sad. Personally I think she should have been happy at the end. 15th alone is a good result. Starting with a 2-3 minute deficit in last? Quite awesome.


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Anyone know why Laurie Arsenault didn't race?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Considering he won the World Champs on this course, Sarrou was rather anonymous; one wonders if his win was down to the strange Covid mini season. 



jrob300 said:


> Gonna go out on a limb and say Nino never wins another WC.


He almost seems back to his best - Leogang is never going to suit him, yet Matthias only won by 6 seconds. You may be right, but you know he'll be on top form for the Worlds, and he has won at Les Gets. I think he can beat everyone bar Pidcock......And we know Tom is another master at peaking for the big day; Olympics/CX Worlds.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> Good racing all around.
> 
> Hard to make any prediction for rest of the season off of this race. This singleton June race was more a test of who can race best with heavy legs from training. Everybody just finished a pretty big training block, and some people do not race very well with heavy legs.
> 
> ...


If I remember correctly, Terpstra won in Andorra a few years ago. So yeah, I like both predictions for the ladies. As for the Men, I like the Vlad for Andora (he trains there) and for Lenzerheid I would throw in Hatherly besides Nino. He won his U23 chip there against a very good field.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

D Bone said:


> Anyone know why Laurie Arsenault didn't race?


A trip to Europe is a big hole in an important June racing block. Probalby, wisely, decided to stay at home get some training in for that July-August training blcok


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

I didn't see an interview with Rebecca, but it appeared from the race that she came into this with a different mindset... again, good coaching. She's not the pure climber some of the other women are, so best to "manage" the race, not try to manufacture some miracle and escape with the points lead to fight another day. This is uncharteed territory for her and this is going to be a long season.

I wonder if Evie will be able to come back this season, and if so, can return to form. It seems that MVDP's back injury recovery defied all odds, so who knows.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I look forward to seeing Vidaurre in the Elites; he looks in another league to his rivals. Was surprised to see Burquier beaten on a climbing course, but once again both her and Pieterse pulled well clear.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Does anyone know why Blevins wasn't there? Strava showed him in California all week.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

celswick said:


> Does anyone know why Blevins wasn't there? Strava showed him in California all week.


I know he's racing Oregon Gravel Grinder stage race this month...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

pinkpowa said:


> I know he's racing Oregon Gravel Grinder stage race this month...


I think you're on the right track. It is a single fly away race and the travel would interfere with is prep so he sat it out


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

celswick said:


> Does anyone know why Blevins wasn't there? Strava showed him in California all week.


I think he got sick at the first two rounds and probably needs to spend some time rebuilding his fitness. Flights to Europe and back cost a lot of fitness.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

More info on the new Discovery deal.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> Vlad Dascalu officially joins Trek Factory Racing.


Dascalu looks 40 but he is only 24. that's odd to me.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> I look forward to seeing Vidaurre in the Elites; he looks in another league to his rivals. Was surprised to see Burquier beaten on a climbing course, but once again both her and Pieterse pulled well clear.


When you look at the the lap time he would crack the top 20, but barely. It is a big jump U23 to elite. 

Pieterse would have been sitting in the top 10 with her lap times.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I wonder if there was damage to the brake or shift lever that needed fixing? It also looked like her timing chip was dangling off the fork, but that should be a quick fix


If you freeze the playback it looks like her entire brake caliper is dangling. 
Watch when she yanks her bike apart from Chiara Teocchi's.
Also when she first lifts the bike and when she hefts it onto her shoulder.
That's too big for a timing chip and there's a noticeable empty spot behind the fork where the caliper should be.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

Wow, what a mess. That being the case, her mechanic actually did a great job to get all that sorted.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Augustus-G said:


> If you freeze the playback it looks like her entire brake caliper is dangling.
> Watch when she yanks her bike apart from Chiara Teocchi's.
> Also when she first lifts the bike and when she hefts it onto her shoulder.
> That's too big for a timing chip and there's a noticeable empty spot behind the fork where the caliper should be.



The front brake caliper was ripped off its quick release fitting on the Ocho. The mechanic had to replace that bracket. One mechanic said they also had to replace the front brake as the mounting tab was bent so would not fit back on the fork leg. When she looked at it she realized that yanking the bars straight was going to get her nowhere she looked over to her team manager who then directed her to get to the tech zone. That's when she took off. Overall they did very well to manage the situation


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

LMN said:


> Good racing all around.
> 
> Hard to make any prediction for rest of the season off of this race. This singleton June race was more a test of who can race best with heavy legs from training. Everybody just finished a pretty big training block, and some people do not race very well with heavy legs.
> 
> ...


I heard an interview with Rissveds that she had a cold earlier in the week and was feeling slow during the race. I would like to have the kind of fitness where I can come second on a climbers course world cup when I am feeling slow 
Agree on Terpstra for Andorra and Rissveds for Lenzerheide, those two tracks seems to suit them well.

Loana Lecomte said in the interview that she was targeting the world championship and might miss some of the world cups, will be interesting to see who wins the overall this year, there are a couple of different names that have it within reach, I am of course hoping for Rissveds, she has been very consistent so far this year.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Skier78 said:


> I heard an interview with Rissveds that she had a cold earlier in the week and was feeling slow during the race. I would like to have the kind of fitness where I can come second on a climbers course world cup when I am feeling slow
> Agree on Terpstra for Andorra and Rissveds for Lenzerheide, those two tracks seems to suit them well.
> 
> Loana Lecomte said in the interview that she was targeting the world championship and might miss some of the world cups, will be interesting to see who wins the overall this year, there are a couple of different names that have it within reach, *I am of course hoping for Rissveds, she has been very consistent so far this year*.


I'll 2nd that


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'll 3rd that; she's so open & honest, her interviews are from the heart, and very little PR. And the instagram post race analysis she does with team mates is good. After the dark period she went through, it's fabulous to see her right at the top again.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Brad said:


> The front brake caliper was ripped off its quick release fitting on the Ocho. The mechanic had to replace that bracket. One mechanic said they also had to replace the front brake as the mounting tab was bent so would not fit back on the fork leg. When she looked at it she realized that yanking the bars straight was going to get her nowhere she looked over to her team manager who then directed her to get to the tech zone. That's when she took off. Overall they did very well to manage the situation


Why wouldn’t you ride the bike? I think we have all raced with no brake. It’s not that big of a deal. 

Was the dangle so bad it couldn’t be cinched up to ride the climb all out? 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

FJSnoozer said:


> Why wouldn’t you ride the bike? I think we have all raced with no brake. It’s not that big of a deal.
> 
> Was the dangle so bad it couldn’t be cinched up to ride the climb all out?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Racing with no brake is one thing, racing with a brake caliper that's trying to flop into your spokes is another!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

down0050 said:


> Racing with no brake is one thing, racing with a brake caliper that's trying to flop into your spokes is another!


beat me to it. 
Having a brake caliper trying its best to rip the rest of the bike apart isn't going to be fun. The climb was pretty steep any way so she didn't lose much time once she got on the trot


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Pinkbike are currently hosting questions to the new boss of MTB on Discovery/Eurosport, Chris Ball.....


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> Pinkbike are currently hosting questions to the new boss of MTB on Discovery/Eurosport, Chris Ball.....












I wonder if Mr. Ball knew what he was walking into there.... seems like a few angry and skeptical fans out there from the comments.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yeah, I had noticed that; I think the probable paywall is annoying fans - but it's not being confirmed; but I can't see how it won't be behind a paywall; look at the Road, CX & track cycling on GCN/ Eurosport; all behind a paywall. That is their business model. 

And by a strange coincidence, my subscription to the Eurosport Player finished yesterday; for the last 2 years it was £39.99 - it's now gone up to £59.99..ouch!😳


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> View attachment 1987604
> 
> 
> I wonder if Mr. Ball knew what he was walking into there.... seems like a few angry and skeptical fans out there from the comments.


Isn’t that what pink bike is..???!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The fact that we have enjoyed watching racing for *free* all these years blows my mind. It was going to come to an end eventually, people just have to accept that.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> Considering he won the World Champs on this course, Sarrou was rather anonymous; one wonders if his win was down to the strange Covid mini season.
> 
> 
> 
> He almost seems back to his best - Leogang is never going to suit him, yet Matthias only won by 6 seconds. You may be right, but you know he'll be on top form for the Worlds, and he has won at Les Gets. I think he can beat everyone bar Pidcock......And we know Tom is another master at peaking for the big day; Olympics/CX Worlds.


I agree. Nino looked really good on a course that doesn't suit him. Fuckiger looked _super_ light to my eyes. Time will tell how that impacts things, if it does, on other courses. The climbing heavy courses will suit him more and more.

Anton Cooper had a pretty good ride. Hopefully still building.

Shame that Mona couldn't start a bit better to challenge Loana. She is creating difficult situations for herself with her poor starting.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

down0050 said:


> Racing with no brake is one thing, racing with a brake caliper that's trying to flop into your spokes is another!


Well, also had to do that. Remember when Juicy Avids would seize in heat?


This goes back to the posts 100 posts back about knowing how to work on your bike. Are you telling me there is no way to cinch up that caliper. Not everyone racing in the World Cup can do necessary triage. Which is OK. F1 drivers can fix their cars. 


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> Well, also had to do that. Remember when Juicy Avids would seize in heat?
> 
> 
> This goes back to the posts 100 posts back about knowing how to work on your bike. Are you telling me there is no way to cinch up that caliper. Not everyone racing in the World Cup can do necessary triage. Which is OK. F1 drivers can fix their cars.
> ...


The quick release mounting on the Ocho broke in the crash. I suspect she got caught up in someone’s rear wheel during the squeeze phase at turn 1. Without it the caliper can only be held in place by one Allen key bolt that turns 1/2 a turn and the riders don’t carry tools. The whole bracket had to be replaced then the caliper remounted and centred.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Am i the only one that felt like Mona mitterwateva is not respecting other racers? She kicked the other bike like it was garbage. I mean come on, lower your ego its not only you out there, respect other racers efforts, money etc, they are not all in pro teams having free bikes.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> The fact that we have enjoyed watching racing for *free* all these years blows my mind. It was going to come to an end eventually, people just have to accept that.


Agree; it was never going to last. And if the sport wants to grow, and gain bigger sponsors, bring more money in, become more visible, etc it won't by staying as it is. 

Saying that, some of the things mentioned raise more questions; more co-operation between all disciplines, bringing the sport to a new level.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Am i the only one that felt like Mona mitterwateva is not respecting other racers? She kicked the other bike like it was garbage. I mean come on, lower your ego its not only you out there, respect other racers efforts, money etc, they are not all in pro teams having free bikes.


No kick. Just pulling the bikes apart.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Yeah just a simple pull😂


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

mail_liam said:


> Shame that Mona couldn't start a bit better to challenge Loana. She is creating difficult situations for herself with her poor starting.


Mona needs to spend some time in the weight room this off season. She doesn't have the max sprint watts of the other top racers in her field to get a good start. #needsmorepower


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Yeah just a simple pull😂


She needed leverage to pull the bar out of the wheel. That means you put a foot on the bike at the bottom. Unfortunately that’s how it goes when two bikes get tangled


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

No, i disagree, that's not the way you are untangle two bikes. If you need so much pressure to untangle means that you are doing It wrong and you are gonna destroy yours and other's cyclist bike. She could have easily break from a spoke to a chainstay or a soft part of the frame with this amount of leverage. This means easily a DNF for no reason and especially when some people are paying for their own bikes and expenses you need imo to respect their efforts.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

cycloholic said:


> No, i disagree, that's not the way you are untangle two bikes. If you need so much pressure to untangle means that you are doing It wrong and you are gonna destroy yours and other's cyclist bike. She could have easily break from a spoke to a chainstay or a soft part of the frame with this amount of leverage. This means easily a DNF for no reason and especially when some people are paying for their own bikes and expenses you need imo to respect their efforts.


Disagree...agree with Nordie and Brad. Sure, if I'm in my local Cat6 Thursday night race and there's a crash, we look the bikes, see where they're tangled, pick the mess up...try and turn the wheels (or whatever), gently pry at them, etc.etc.etc. If I'm on a UCI WC track...I try to get moving...and pulling them apart is pulling them apart.

Did either person DNF???


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I get your point totally, but in this case i think she was a bit more aggressive than she should be. I don't know how risking to destroy your bike and other cyclists bike even more works better in the world cup but anyway we agree that we disagree.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Brad said:


> The front brake caliper was ripped off its quick release fitting on the Ocho. The mechanic had to replace that bracket. One mechanic said they also had to replace the front brake as the mounting tab was bent so would not fit back on the fork leg. When she looked at it she realized that yanking the bars straight was going to get her nowhere she looked over to her team manager who then directed her to get to the tech zone. That's when she took off. Overall they did very well to manage the situation


Yup, the brake was indeed hanging off the fork!


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

cycloholic said:


> No, i disagree, that's not the way you are untangle two bikes. If you need so much pressure to untangle means that you are doing It wrong and you are gonna destroy yours and other's cyclist bike. She could have easily break from a spoke to a chainstay or a soft part of the frame with this amount of leverage. This means easily a DNF for no reason and especially when some people are paying for their own bikes and expenses you need imo to respect their efforts.


She's young, she panicked. She was on home soil and probably felt a lot of pressure to perform. She was likely very frustrated because the crash wasn't her fault and made a split-second decision in panic. As someone who recently dislocated my shoulder in a MTB race because someone made a bone-headed decision 10 seconds into the race, I can empathize with her. It's easy for us to watch endless replays and say what should've been done differently. I'm not sure anyone in her situation would've behaved any differently. She'll learn from it, move on, and handle situations better going forward. All part of the process...


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

LMN said:


> The fact that we have enjoyed watching racing for *free* all these years blows my mind. It was going to come to an end eventually, people just have to accept that.


I believe I said it before, but if Discovery's coverage of XCO MTB is anything like (most of) GCN+'s coverage, I'm all in. GCN+ coverage of the Giro was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed watching every stage. The commentators they have on their panels are entertaining and knowledgeable, and show actual chemistry between them. I used to love NBC Sports' coverage of the Tour and other races with Paul and Phil, but when I watch NBC's coverage now compared to GCN+, the difference is staggering.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Great observation. I see someone who's NOT been spending time in the weight room and it showed out quite well, nod to Tom Pidcock 

WATTS/KG


__
http://instagr.am/p/Ce0lgS5NOlF/





mail_liam said:


> I agree. Nino looked really good on a course that doesn't suit him. Fuckiger looked _super_ light to my eyes. Time will tell how that impacts things, if it does, on other courses. The climbing heavy courses will suit him more and more.
> 
> Anton Cooper had a pretty good ride. Hopefully still building.
> 
> Shame that Mona couldn't start a bit better to challenge Loana. She is creating difficult situations for herself with her poor starting.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Is it worth it to join GCN+ now or wait till next season? I'm unsure the content is different than Red Bull TV? I'm mostly interested in MTB coverage, XCO .


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

trmn8er said:


> Is it worth it to join GCN+ now or wait till next season? I'm unsure the content is different than Red Bull TV? I'm mostly interested in MTB coverage, XCO .


If you are not into road and CX it is worth waiting and seeing how things playout for next season.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes, I'd wait and see for more announcements. There is GCN+ for solely cycling, or for wider sports, there is Eurosport, or Discovery+.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

I looked at GCN+ lineup and I saw VERY little Mtb content. Perhaps I was searching incorrectly. I’m all about Mtb and could care less about road so I’m unsure this portal makes sense. Perhaps I’ll pay monthly next year just during UCI XCO season then drop it. 


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

trmn8er said:


> I looked at GCN+ lineup and I saw VERY little Mtb content. Perhaps I was searching incorrectly. I’m all about Mtb and could care less about road so I’m unsure this portal makes sense. Perhaps I’ll pay monthly next year just during UCI XCO season then drop it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I don't think I've ever seen MTB coverage on GCN+ but I watch a ton of road racing so I consider it a fantastic value. If you only want MTB coverage, IMO it would be a waste of your money to get GCN+ until they actually take over the XCO stuff next year.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> Mona needs to spend some time in the weight room this off season. She doesn't have the max sprint watts of the other top racers in her field to get a good start. #needsmorepower


Do you have evidence that the weight room increases sprint watts?

In my experience sprinting and sprint technique paired with natural ability increases sprint watts. Not everyone can produce 15-20 w/kg.


My max sprint and 5s-10s power is the same from when I could squat 385 and deadlift 455. I’ve barely touched a weight in years. I do a lot of sprint work because I enjoy ripping equipment apart. My mid and longer range sprint is higher. Now a days from back then. It comes and goes based upon how much work and recent focused. 

If you do in fact have evidence, I’ll start doing them again, because I’d like to push it up in the 17-1800s for my ego. 


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

FJSnoozer said:


> Do you have evidence that the weight room increases sprint watts?
> 
> In my experience sprinting and sprint technique paired with natural ability increases sprint watts. Not everyone can produce 15-20 w/kg.
> 
> ...


It sounds like you are just naturally strong and it's easy for you to generate force by working your strong core, pulling on the handlebars and pushing down on the pedals hard. Mona on the otherhand, definitely can't generate as much max force on the pedals as the other leading racers in pro XCO World Cup races. Watch any start and she goes backwards. She needs more watts for a better 30 second sprint off the line. What would you recommend a racer to do to strengthen their core so they can get more max power to the pedals in the opening sprint if they aren't naturally strong?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> It sounds like you are just naturally strong and it's easy for you to generate force by working your strong core, pulling on the handlebars and pushing down on the pedals hard. Mona on the otherhand, definitely can't generate as much max force on the pedals as the other leading racers in pro XCO World Cup races. Watch any start and she goes backwards. She needs more watts for a better 30 second sprint off the line. What would you recommend a racer to do to strengthen their core so they can get more max power to the pedals in the opening sprint if they aren't naturally strong?


Strength and sprint speed are different things. There is a correlation but it isn't actually a strong one. 

My wife when she racing and at her best was very much like Mona. Great climber a terrible starter. To work on her starts one year she worked with the strength coach who did Aaron Gwin, and Richey Rudes programs. She worked hard in the gym, massive strength gains from what was actually a pretty high base line. Absolutely zero gains in peak sprint power.

A poor starter like Mona can work hard and become a better starter but she will never be a great starter.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I feel like all of Kate’s weight work hasn’t made her any more explosive or “fast”. She still has a slow, labored cadence when it’s time to accelerate and usually goes backwards compared to the quicker starters/finishers. Seems overgeared at those times, to me. However, maybe the weight work is actually helping, and she’d be worse without it? No clue.

That said, she’s performing better than I thought she would this year.


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> It sounds like you are just naturally strong and it's easy for you to generate force by working your strong core, pulling on the handlebars and pushing down on the pedals hard. Mona on the otherhand, definitely can't generate as much max force on the pedals as the other leading racers in pro XCO World Cup races. Watch any start and she goes backwards. She needs more watts for a better 30 second sprint off the line. What would you recommend a racer to do to strengthen their core so they can get more max power to the pedals in the opening sprint if they aren't naturally strong?


So much can be had in practice and form over having a strong core. I’d wager all of those women have a stronger core than I do. 

You pose an interesting question. If you need to be better at starts, I would practice starts (gearing selection, clipping in, from a rest). I’d do lots of gearing testing to see how to best generate force vs leg speed and see what works for the rider. I’d do stomp drills and sprints settling into Threahold+ effort. Get use to holding 600ish watts of the line for a bit for a female of her size.

Not saying you are wrong on it being something she can and should improve, I just wouldn’t expect any type of general strength training to make as much difference as focused practice. 

If anything I would do alternating lawn pulls with heavy Kettle bells and oblique work via side plank and hanging side leg raises. 

Sprinting from a dig correctly is such a weird thing to get right, it requires the right timing of contraction and release of muscles while trying waste as little energy as possible. I’m kind of weird, I’ll whole shot most folks, but I’ll look very strange doing it because I am winding up from 35 rpm. The low cadence/high force does makes it super simple to clip in. 


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I don't think I've ever seen MTB coverage on GCN+ but I watch a ton of road racing so I consider it a fantastic value. If you only want MTB coverage, IMO it would be a waste of your money to get GCN+ until they actually take over the XCO stuff next year.


They have occasionally had some coverage; they had last year's European Championships, plus the World Championships using their own commentators. And there was live coverage of the Marathon XC World Championships. But if you're only interested in MTB, then I wouldn't sign up yet.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Mona is the XC MTB equivalent of Clara Honsinger in CX; both good climbers, but awful starters, who lose too much ground in the first 10 seconds of a race. Seeing as they're both on Cannondale teams, makes it even more of a strange coincidence.

I recall a podcast last year; and it was something that was noticed, and commented upon; she makes awful starts, but gets away with it in U23, however, she may have problems in the Elites. And so it has happened. 

She is what you expect a 'pure climber' to be like.......


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

strength training helps improve the amount of force I can apply to the pedals (turn a higher gear). Its doesn't help my turn my legs over faster (cadence).
Higher gear =cadence = faster sprint
but not everyone's physiology will respond to this. Muscle fibre composition plays a big role


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Mona is the XC MTB equivalent of Clara Honsinger in CX; both good climbers, but awful starters, who lose too much ground in the first 10 seconds of a race. Seeing as they're both on Cannondale teams, makes it even more of a strange coincidence.
> 
> I recall a podcast last year; and it was something that was noticed, and commented upon; she makes awful starts, but gets away with it in U23, however, she may have problems in the Elites. And so it has happened.
> 
> She is what you expect a 'pure climber' to be like.......


Indeed and this is very difficult to change. She's built very similar to a friend of mine who runs a marathon in 2h31min. Small light, climbs like a mountain goat, but struggles to develop speed on the bike. She can't run a fast 800m any more but that's where she started out. She'd make a great XCM racer if she ever made the switch from athletics. The only thing they can do is build muscle strength and improve leg speed but sprinters they will never be.
In Mona's case she needs to build more anaerobic capacity leg speed and power to limit her losses.
also the jump from U23 to Elites is a big step. Its an extra lap and a very different type of race. Its much more tactical. MOna probably needs this season to adapt


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Big discussion about lifting!
Strength is a vital component but it's not the only one required for sprinting. Also it is important what you actual doing on the gym and how you do it! All gym sessions or gym schedules haven't the same gains.
It's odd to name everything just "gym".

Then you need speed skills and you need to master the correct technique to output your potential.
As a coach i found that the most difficult aspect to train is the technique.
And then you need to take into account eventual loss of other aspects of performance.

PS track cyclists lift for a reason!
PS2 after 30 is a must to lift


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I suspect a lot of it is mental/tactical. I doubt she's in the bottom third of the field in terms of power (to weight) development, yet she constantly falls back that far. Definitely she needs to practice hard starts, but I personally think it goes to the point of the crossover of U23 and XCM points. 

She's likely going to get an XCO win this season because her talent is so high, but she needs to use this time to absorb the experience of those around her.



On the KC note, I think she's just at her level and the field has passed her by. She looks consistent this year which is good. She needs to get back to Cape Epic in March and log some long hard rides chasing someone a lot more powerful like Langvad.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> I believe I said it before, but if Discovery's coverage of XCO MTB is anything like (most of) GCN+'s coverage, I'm all in. GCN+ coverage of the Giro was amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed watching every stage. The commentators they have on their panels are entertaining and knowledgeable, and show actual chemistry between them. I used to love NBC Sports' coverage of the Tour and other races with Paul and Phil, but when I watch NBC's coverage now compared to GCN+, the difference is staggering.





mail_liam said:


> I suspect a lot of it is mental/tactical. I doubt she's in the bottom third of the field in terms of power (to weight) development, yet she constantly falls back that far.


Perhaps some of both. I think it's actually quite likely that she is in the bottom 1/3 of the field in 1-minute power (not power-to-weight, as on a flat start weight doesn't really play into it except for the initial acceleration, though she could be on the low side for 1-minute power to weight as well).


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

First post! I've been following the XCO season pretty closely. A few thoughts on Leogang:


Mona Mitterwallner posted a new video on Instagram (I think from the Cannondale recap) showing the crash from an angle that makes it pretty clear that Emily Batty careened into Mona in an unusual way - she basically came in for a lateral crash out of nowhere. I wonder if the randomness of that contributed to Mona's frustration. I was bummed too since I was hoping for a Lecomte/Mitterwallner climbing showdown.
I'm really curious why Emily Batty hasn't performed as strongly in recent years. She was regularly on the podium before, but I think she actually got lapped in a race or two last year and she's struggled to be in top 30. I can totally get and understand why a top rider would drop to top 20-30, but to go from top to not even finishing a race? How can things get that far off for a strong technical rider with a lot of experience like Batty?
Kate Courtney is looking decent this season. I bet she'll be top 10 in multiple races before all is said and done, although I'm not sure if she'll be back on podium. Maybe?
Nino is looking strong to me. I think he'll go for Lenzerheide as the next goal race (home turf and all) and then focus on World Championships after that. Any indication whether Pidcock will be at Lenzerheide? I'm also rooting for Dascalu.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Yup, the brake was indeed hanging off the fork!
> View attachment 1987705


That shows why she was running with the bike!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I generally refrain from making posts like this but I’ll say it here: 

An athlete’s weight is a huge contributor to their success in cycling. Not just w/kg, but it impacts fueling, hydration, heat management, etc. Peter Sagan was visibly overweight earlier this year. Did absolutely nothing in the Classics. Comes to the Tour de Suisse looking 10-15lbs (or more) lighter, wins a stage. Froome has looked a bit chunkier than his normal stick figure self, albeit several years after a nearly career ending accident; he looks leaner now and has had some OK results of late. Many more examples of that. 

Emily Batty’s best season, a couple years ago now, was when she looked super lean. This year’s Bec McConnell appears leaner than any past season’s version. 


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Batty doesn’t need to podium races. She just needs to have fun, be a spokes person and try to enjoy getting paid to race bikes and promote products for a living. 

Not a bad gig! No judgment from me. 


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> I generally refrain from making posts like this but I’ll say it here:
> 
> An athlete’s weight is a huge contributor to their success in cycling. Not just w/kg, but it impacts fueling, hydration, heat management, etc. Peter Sagan was visibly overweight earlier this year. Did absolutely nothing in the Classics. Comes to the Tour de Suisse looking 10-15lbs (or more) lighter, wins a stage. Froome has looked a bit chunkier than his normal stick figure self, albeit several years after a nearly career ending accident; he looks leaner now and has had some OK results of late. Many more examples of that.
> 
> ...


And not even talk about how lean is loana😂


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

cycloholic said:


> And not even talk about how lean is loan


Did I misspell “lean” somewhere?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

cycloholic said:


> And not even talk about how lean is loan😂





Le Duke said:


> Did I misspell “lean” somewhere?
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Loana???


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> Loana???


Ah. That makes more sense. 


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

BMI is rather telling those who win the keys races are in the bottom range of normal so for men that’s 19to 21.
But there are anomalies … Jenny looks a little more normal than she did when she won Olympics but she’s clearly not as dominant. Low fat % helps to within reason. The opposite example is Yana Belomoina


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

roth88 said:


> First post! I've been following the XCO season pretty closely. A few thoughts on Leogang:
> 
> Nino is looking strong to me. I think he'll go for Lenzerheide as the next goal race (home turf and all) and then focus on World Championships after that. Any indication whether Pidcock will be at Lenzerheide? I'm also rooting for Dascalu.


I think whether Pidcock is at Lenzerheide depends on how well he does this week at the Tour de Suisse; a good week and he might make the Tour de France team. If not, then it's possible he'll return to MTB.

Ah well, he's been pulled from the Tour de Suisse due to Covid....a long list of riders getting it.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Ah. That makes more sense.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


hahaha sorry!!


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> I think whether Pidcock is at Lenzerheide depends on how well he does this week at the Tour de Suisse; a good week and he might make the Tour de France team. If not, then it's possible he'll return to MTB.


Tom Pidcock pulled out of the Tour de Suisse with Covid today:









"Blame cyclists for stoking the flames of the road culture war": Telegraph columnist writes; Tour de France concerns as Covid positives rock Tour de Suisse (Pidcock and race leader Vlasov OUT)... but stage six goes ahead + more on the live blog


Happy Friday! The weekend is just around the corner, Dan Alexander will be bringing it home with your final live blog of the week




road.cc





I was reading an article today and apparently the newer Omicron variant is less likely to lead to long Covid issues than with the earlier Covid variants. At the same time though Omicron doesn’t build immunity against itself so even if you catch it that doesn’t reduce your chances of repeatedly catching it again soon afterwards.

Timing wise he could end up not riding the Tour de France, which starts at the beginning of July, so might do some mountain bike races instead.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

From Tour de Suisse, PCS is listing only 94 starters of the 153 that started the race 😲, and it seems like most of them are covid. I would have thought Pidcock's spot was locked in, but one can't be sure how quick they come back. Tour rosters could be very interesting this year.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

How important is w/kg on WC tracks, compared to just high power output ?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Raikzz said:


> How important is w/kg on WC tracks, compared to just high power output ?


That's kinda what we've been discussing on and off for pages... it really depends on a variety of factors, but different course designs suit different riders. In general, flatter or slightly rolling courses will favor the more powerful riders, regardless of weight. Long, grinding climbs will favor the lighter riders with higher w/kg. The length and steepness will see the heavier riders drop off, regardless of power/wt. The courses with short punchy climbs are a crap shoot. And the w/kg thing is deceptive, bcause two riders with the same 20 minute power/wt can have very different 1 minute or 1 hour.

At the end of the day, the data is interesting and we can discuss it for days.... but there is a reason we actually hold the events and wait to see who wins. It's a human activity and humans sometimes do the inexplicable.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Raikzz said:


> How important is w/kg on WC tracks, compared to just high power output ?


Look at Schwarzbauer's results at Leogang vs previous races. That should be pretty informative.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> Look at Schwarzbauer's results at Leogang vs previous races. That should be pretty informative.


I think it is more a case of him coming off form that Leogang not suiting him. The difference in the total climbing for the entire race between Nova Mesto and Leogang is less than 100m.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> I think it is more a case of him coming off form that Leogang not suiting him. The difference in the total climbing for the entire race between Nova Mesto and Leogang is less than 100m.


The Leogang course was 24km, whereas the Nove Mesto course was 30.10km. So, 25% longer with less climbing at Nove Mesto.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Most of the top Men are weighing between 65-68kgs, while Pidcock is on the other end with 59kg ( interestingly is there any other top men under 60kg? ) and MVDP,Gaze,Schwarzbaumer,Kulhavy on the other end with 75+kgs.

Conclusion? No idea


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Le Duke said:


> The Leogang course was 24km, whereas the Nove Mesto course was 30.10km. So, 25% longer with less climbing at Nove Mesto.


I'd wager that climb duration matters as well. Imagine two courses, same distamce and elevation gain/loss. One that is one long climb/one long descent; another that has multiple short climbs. The first would likely favor high w/kg at FTP, the second high w/kg for 1-3 minutes (depending on climb duration)y, as well as anaerobic repeatability.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

FJSnoozer said:


> Batty doesn’t need to podium races. She just needs to have fun, be a spokes person and try to enjoy getting paid to race bikes and promote products for a living.
> 
> Not a bad gig! No judgment from me.
> 
> ...


She wants to, though - she hasn't had a win (come close a dozen or more times) and she seems to want to compete. What has changed in her life and training to explain getting lapped in races she used to podium in? Maybe there's some element of injury that I'm not aware of, but it seems like a bigger drop in performance than others. Belomoina and Courtney, for example, aren't in contention for the overall right now, but they're pretty reliably in the top 20 or better (or at LEAST top 30).


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Some interesting stuff to Falun XCE WC!
Jenny is 5sec faster than the world champion!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I can't believe XCE is still a thing.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I can't say, all i can say, it's sooo fucking difficult, especially Falun hills are crazy!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Le Duke said:


> The Leogang course was 24km, whereas the Nove Mesto course was 30.10km. So, 25% longer with less climbing at Nove Mesto.


Yeah, but climbs are done at similar VAMs and that is all that really matters. 

The camera's really flatten the Nove Mesto course, you walk it and you realize that climbs aren't really that much shorter than Leogang and some of them are actually steeper.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The right rider weight is difficult, ligher is obviously better but only to a point. Once you cross that point it is only a couple of weeks before things start going really bad.

Most of time when a rider is off form it is weight related, and most of time it is related to them being too aggressive with their weight loss. This is true for both guys and girls, but girls pay price for being too lean for a longer time. Guys usually can come back in a couple of months, girls sometimes never come back.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

LMN said:


> The right rider weight is difficult, ligher is obviously better but only to a point. Once you cross that point it is only a couple of weeks before things start going really bad.
> 
> Most of time when a rider is off form it is weight related, and most of time it is related to them being too aggressive with their weight loss. This is true for both guys and girls, but girls pay price for being too lean for a longer time. Guys usually can come back in a couple of months, girls sometimes never come back.


Is it related to some body fat % that you should not go lower than? Is it okay to lose bodyweight in summer/race season at all? Or being in calorie deficit and racing almost every weekend is not going to end well?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

cycloholic said:


> Some interesting stuff to Falun XCE WC!
> Jenny is 5sec faster than the world champion!


Lost by few cm in finals, quite suprising actually


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> Is it related to some body fat % that you should not go lower than? Is it okay to lose bodyweight in summer/race season at all? Or being in calorie deficit and racing almost every weekend is not going to end well?


A bit of both, and person specific.

General 10% for women and 7% for men is considered the healthy floor. A dip below that for a short period of time might be OK or it might not. And just because you got away with it once doesn't mean that you will get away with it again.

The skiers can probably tell more about this, but in Norway they will pull XC skiers from international competition if they fall below a certain body fat percentage. Super progressive of them. And I have heard rumbling from multiple national cycling federations about doing the same. But just rumblings.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

LMN said:


> A bit of both, and person specific.
> 
> General 10% for women and 7% for men is considered the healthy floor. A dip below that for a short period of time might be OK or it might not. And just because you got away with it once doesn't mean that you will get away with it again.
> 
> The skiers can probably tell more about this, but in Norway they will pull XC skiers from international competition if they fall below a certain body fat percentage. Super progressive of them. And I have heard rumbling from multiple national cycling federations about doing the same. But just rumblings.


It can ruin careers and even health for a lifetime (especially for women). Female Athletic Triad (FAT) is a scary thing.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> The right rider weight is difficult, ligher is obviously better but only to a point. Once you cross that point it is only a couple of weeks before things start going really bad.
> 
> Most of time when a rider is off form it is weight related, and most of time it is related to them being too aggressive with their weight loss. This is true for both guys and girls, but girls pay price for being too lean for a longer time. Guys usually can come back in a couple of months, girls sometimes never come back.


This is where I have a sliver of doubt about Fluck. Nothing to say he's gone too far, or dropped too fast, but it could play a factor in his sustainability over the rest of the season. He didn't have both low weight and high form for the first half so that bodes well for him.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> A bit of both, and person specific.
> 
> General 10% for women and 7% for men is considered the healthy floor. A dip below that for a short period of time might be OK or it might not. And just because you got away with it once doesn't mean that you will get away with it again.


30 years ago racing ultras mine hovered around 5-6% for awhile. Not understanding the science, I thought less was more. I began to get sick and it would take a long time to recover. Then I got chronically sick and eventually developed walking pneumonia and got laid out in bed for 3 weeks. It took a year to recover and it was one of my doctors that pointed out that my body fat was dangerously low and I needed to gain some weight, but specifically fat. But it also turned out that trying to stay lean had also eaten into my muscle mass.

I'm older and smarter now and work really hard to maintain a generous 16%.  This not only keeps me healthy, it is an outstanding excuse for why I suck so bad on climbs.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

LMN said:


> General 10% for women and 7% for men is considered the healthy floor. A dip below that for a short period of time might be OK or it might not. And just because you got away with it once doesn't mean that you will get away with it again.


The floor really varies by person, so it's a bit tough to say what's a healthy floor for someone. For instance, PfP has posted that she was 13% at the Olympics, and hinted that was as low as she might want to go. Like you said though, the effects of going too low can be catastrophic, and many women (and men to some extent) have suffered for ages because of bad science and coaching.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> I'd wager that climb duration matters as well. Imagine two courses, same distamce and elevation gain/loss. One that is one long climb/one long descent; another that has multiple short climbs. The first would likely favor high w/kg at FTP, the second high w/kg for 1-3 minutes (depending on climb duration)y, as well as anaerobic repeatability.


Bingo 
Climbs in ex course are typically 4 to 6 min long and there’s often two of them. So 6min power and the ability to recover within 3min and repeat 10-14 times is key here. Guys who can do that will win.
Riders who focus on 20min to 60min power win. Grand tours. So understanding the riders power profile is more key to determining their XCO ability than Just w/kg ( which is ultimately important)


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Yeah, but climbs are done at similar VAMs and that is all that really matters.
> 
> The camera's really flatten the Nove Mesto course, you walk it and you realize that climbs aren't really that much shorter than Leogang and some of them are actually steeper.


Yip, it’s just more exposed than other courses being on the side of a hill rather than a mountain and the entire course except for the stadium section is in a pine forest. Pines tend to grow at an angle rather than straight up thus creating an illusion of less gradient


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> 30 years ago racing ultras mine hovered around 5-6% for awhile. Not understanding the science, I thought less was more. I began to get sick and it would take a long time to recover. Then I got chronically sick and eventually developed walking pneumonia and got laid out in bed for 3 weeks. It took a year to recover and it was one of my doctors that pointed out that my body fat was dangerously low and I needed to gain some weight, but specifically fat. But it also turned out that trying to stay lean had also eaten into my muscle mass.
> 
> I'm older and smarter now and work really hard to maintain a generous 16%.  This not only keeps me healthy, it is an outstanding excuse for why I suck so bad on climbs.


buddy of mine weighs 59kg at 167cm. He’s constantly getting ill. He’s been advised to gain a about 3kg but doesn’t take the advise so every 5 weeks or so he’s down with something. He’s training never gets going and when it does he pushes too hard an d get ill. This cycle has been repeating and now he’s had covid 3 times this year , the last has left some lingering issues.
Weight obsession is not healthy


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> No, i disagree, that's not the way you are untangle two bikes. If you need so much pressure to untangle means that you are doing It wrong and you are gonna destroy yours and other's cyclist bike. She could have easily break from a spoke to a chainstay or a soft part of the frame with this amount of leverage. This means easily a DNF for no reason and especially when some people are paying for their own bikes and expenses you need imo to respect their efforts.


although I agree with you in principal, its just not going to play out that way in a professional race when earning your living comes from results. I can't see the damage on the other bike but the competitor and Mona seemed pretty aligned that some force was required and that they'd both need to head to the tech zone. Its racing.***t happens


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Yep. I see a problem and I want to solve it in the most energy efficient and simple way.
They want to get back on their bikes as quickly as they can and if force is involved, so be it.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Reminded me a bit of the CX Worlds in Zolder 2016 when Van Aert & MvdP got tangled up mid race....


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> Reminded me a bit of the CX Worlds in Zolder 2016 when Van Aert & MvdP got tangled up mid race....


Off to YouTube.....

Edit: FF to about 1:15


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> Reminded me a bit of the CX Worlds in Zolder 2016 when Van Aert & MvdP got tangled up mid race....


When ever bikes get tangle in racing the process of seperating them is not exactly smooth.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> When ever bikes get tangle in racing the process of separating them is not exactly smooth.


as long as no punches are thrown or saddle bags at dawn duels all's fair. The idea is to get going. Its a race, not a coffee shop rid (although often the only difference is the presence of a timing chip...)


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Random thought about the Eurosport/GCN/Disney takeover of the World Cup broadcast. I hope it means they televise the Team Relay. I have only been able to watch the 2016 and 2018 (I think) ones from Nove Mesto and Lenzerheide on YouTube. It's a great dynamic, especially with the strength of so many different nations now.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

From memory, on both occasions, the Worlds TV coverage was produced by the host country, who were happy to cover the other races; I remember watching the Lenzerheide Relay/ U23 races on the UCI You Tube channel. Even last year, at Val di Sole, Rob kept mentioning the TV pictures were not Red Bull TV, but the host broadcaster. So whether that changes who knows; but it's seems it's been up to the host broadcaster whether they cover the other races - the cameras are there ready, it's a case of paying the operators/producers to film it live. Most don't. 

It's the one thing the CX Worlds has over the MTB Worlds; you can see all the races live, including the new Relay race. One hopes this is something that is addressed.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> From memory, on both occasions, the Worlds TV coverage was produced by the host country, who were happy to cover the other races; I remember watching the Lenzerheide Relay/ U23 races on the UCI You Tube channel. Even last year, at Val di Sole, Rob kept mentioning the TV pictures were not Red Bull TV, but the host broadcaster. So whether that changes who knows; but it's seems it's been up to the host broadcaster whether they cover the other races - the cameras are there ready, it's a case of paying the operators/producers to film it live. Most don't.
> 
> It's the one thing the CX Worlds has over the MTB Worlds; you can see all the races live, including the new Relay race. One hopes this is something that is addressed.


Actually it’s the host country cycling federation that pays for the broadcast and many don’t have the budget. The XCO races get covered because they’re already paid for but tho there need additional payments as you correctly point out. This is a bit of a problem if the World Champs are held in countries where cycling is relatively small


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Per Strava, MvdP has been doing a lot of his TdF training on his MTB. Today was a VO2max workout day. It should be interesting to see how this works for him at the Tour when he goes stage hunting. He's already said he's not going to battle for the green jersey and prefers to go for stage wins when it suits him.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Coverage of the U23 and Junior XCO races at World Cups would be really awesome, even if it was just some extended highlights. I realize the elite riders hare "earned" their right for better coverage than younger categories, but I've always wanted to at least see highlights of the younger categories for a long time. Maybe this is something GCN/Discovery would have budget for.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> Per Strava, MvdP has been doing a lot of his TdF training on his MTB. Today was a VO2max workout day. It should be interesting to see how this works for him at the Tour when he goes stage hunting. He's already said he's not going to battle for the green jersey and prefers to go for stage wins when it suits him.


My first thought when I read that headline a few days ago was that MvdP wasn't going to race the Tour at all, which means he might race a few XCOs and Nino's shot at win #34 was getting slimmer and slimmer


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

BespokeTrailMix said:


> My first thought when I read that headline a few days ago was that MvdP wasn't going to race the Tour at all, which means he might race a few XCOs and Nino's shot at win #34 was getting slimmer and slimmer


It would make my summer if MVDP thumbed his nose at the Tour and went "stage hunting" on his MTB.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I’m guessing one stage win at Tour de France would bring more exposure to his team’s sponsors than winning every stop on the mountain bike World Cup combined. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

celswick said:


> I’m guessing one stage win at Tour de France would bring more exposure to his team’s sponsors than winning every stop on the mountain bike World Cup combined.


I'm afraid that's the truth - and it's not healthy for the sport to be overshadowed by one event in July.....


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

celswick said:


> I’m guessing one stage win at Tour de France would bring more exposure to his team’s sponsors than winning every stop on the mountain bike World Cup combined.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


You could probably argue a single Tour stage win would give a team more exposure than MTB teams receive in their entire multi-year existence. Sad but true.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

well MTB is sill very much a niche sport compared to the Pro tour Road races and specifically, The Tour de France


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Alpecin-Fenix have enough money to cover their expenses, plus they are dropping Fenix and getting Deceuninck on board for the TdF and beyond.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> well MTB is still a very much a niche interesting sport compared to the Pro tour Road races and specifically, The Tour de France


Fixed it.


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## BespokeTrailMix (Mar 3, 2020)

Brad said:


> well MTB is sill very much a niche sport compared to the Pro tour Road races and specifically, The Tour de France


Precisely my point


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Alpecin-Fenix have enough money to cover their expenses, plus they are dropping Fenix and getting Deceuninck on board for the TdF and beyond.


Aren't they just swapping positions on the kit? News | Alpecin-Fenix Cycling Team 2022


I think I'm right, in that Alpecin-Fenix are the only major cycling team registered for road, CX & MTB competitons.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> Aren't they just swapping positions on the kit? News | Alpecin-Fenix Cycling Team 2022
> 
> 
> I think I'm right, in that Alpecin-Fenix are the only major cycling team registered for road, CX & MTB competitons.


Yeah...that...


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## forrest_m (May 26, 2015)

Exmuhle said:


> I think I'm right, in that Alpecin-Fenix are the only major cycling team registered for road, CX & MTB competitons.


Ineos too? Though that's only one athlete, A-F have MvDP, Sam Gaze, Ceylin del Carmen Alvarado, maybe others. 

You could argue that Trek does as well, road and dirt teams aren't the same organization, but they're not completely separate either, my understanding is that they do training camps and media events together.

Speaking of which, today's Tour de Suisse Feminin final road stage featured Lucinda Brand and Jolanda Neff attacking together on the final wet downhill to gain 50 seconds and put LB into the GC lead. Super impressive handling from both on scary looking roads, and while they aren't technically teammates (JN was riding for the Swiss National Team), they were working awfully well together...


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Not sure if you're all tuning into the Tour De Suisse women, but Keller, Neff and Frei have been amazing to watch animating the stages. Be interesting to see if it translates into high placings in Lenzerheide.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Not sure if you're all tuning into the Tour De Suisse women, but Keller, Neff and Frei have been amazing to watch animating the stages. Be interesting to see if it translates into high placings in Lenzerheide.


I think Neff placed 5th in GC. Not bad for a "mountain biker"....


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Neff's descent was as good as you would expect from a rider who is as technically excellent as she is; and then Faulkner crashing in the final corner, after getting her line all wrong, and taking it too quick.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Exmuhle said:


> Neff's descent was as good as you would expect from a rider who is as technically excellent as she is; and then Faulkner crashing in the final corner, after getting her line all wrong, and taking it too quick.


Yeah, that was pretty brutal to have it all go wrong in a split second. Ouch.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Some interesting racing in the Italian series....Berta winning, and Evie coming back with a podium. 

And Jenny took part in the Swedish National Road race - and won, by 6 minutes!!!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

European Championships for Junior/U23 riders in Anadia, Portugal. Dutch have already won the Mixed Relay....
Junior XCO today, and U23 XCO tomorrow.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> European Championships for Junior/U23 riders in Anadia, Portugal. Dutch have already won the Mixed Relay....
> Junior XCO today, and U23 XCO tomorrow.


Coverage anywhere?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It doesn't look like it; the odd clip/ short videos on social media/ You Tube.....


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Not quite XCO, but did anyone else catch Tom Pidcock in Darth Helmet cosplay at TDF Stage 1?


----------



## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

bikeranzin said:


> Not quite XCO, but did anyone else catch Tom Pidcock in Darth Helmet cosplay at TDF Stage 1?


I was too busy organising for a ride day to see Tom, but I did the first EF guy (the one who crashed twice) in his pink number.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> Not quite XCO, but did anyone else catch Tom Pidcock in Darth Helmet cosplay at TDF Stage 1?


I said exactly the same to my ride group this morning lol


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Cardy George said:


> I was too busy organising for a ride day to see Tom, but I did the first EF guy (the one who crashed twice) in his pink number.


Bissegger’s helmet brings phallic connotations to time trialing


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Women's XCO U23 Euros; A Dutch 1-2 Pieterse, Van Empel, Specia - Ita. Men's U23 starts shortly....

And also the French Nationals in Plouec-L'Hermitage, Bretagne.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Feels like everyone had their national champs this weekend


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Some good racing in the next few weeks. I'm not even gonna bother picking who can or will win and I'm just gonna pick a few dark horses outside of the top five who can surprise a lot of people...

Men: Sam Gaze, Blevins, Ulloa and Filippo Colombo. 

Women: Kate, Keller, Batten, Evie and Frei.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

carlostruco said:


> Men: Sam Gaze, *Blevins*, Ulloa and Filippo Colombo.
> 
> Women: *Kate*, Keller, Batten, *Evie* and *Frei*.


Feels a little bit odd to be calling current and former world champions "dark horses" 😜


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I think it's going to be battle between Nino and Flück again


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

I suspect Cink will be back to his best and near the sharp end.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

My guess for Lenzerheide xco:

Women
1. J Rissveds
2. E Richards
3. P Ferrand Prevot (if she is racing, otherwise L Lecomte)

Men
1. N Schurter
2. T Carod
3. M Flückiger


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

bikeranzin said:


> Feels a little bit odd to be calling current and former world champions "dark horses" 😜


I hate picking the flavour of the month, so I look for people who have done well in the past around this time of the year and on the respective race track.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Ladies:
Lecomte
Rissveds
Terpstra

Men:
Fluckiger
Hatherly
Dascalu


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

I would love to see Anton Cooper on the podium.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Eric F said:


> I would love to see Anton Cooper on the podium.


Me too!


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## donR (11 mo ago)

I'd say Rebecca McConnell is in with a chance. She has been a dark horse all these years but with some amazing results this season!

Would be good to see Jordan Sarrou with a win. Or Laura or Sina as I am a fan of the Epic! Or Christopher Blevins or Kate for you US guys.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I expect it'll be Lecomte on the Women's side. She won French Nationals and looks in great form.

I hope if it's not Anton, that Nino can get the W. It'd be special for him to get it at Lenzerheide. I suspect it'll be Fluckiger, though I haven't seen anything of him. 

Sam Gaze, if he's continued building as he had been, could be one to watch (and I will be).


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

This track is in Bec's wheelhouse and I think she will want more points for the overall


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

Raikzz said:


> I think it's going to be battle between Nino and Flück again


Flüeckinger...."Nino....get that 34th yet?"

Nino... "Flüeck off."


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

Vamp said:


> I suspect Cink will be back to his best and near the sharp end.


Except he's just pulled out with illness...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That was some fun racing today!


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Fun and very aggressive racing! Rissveds and Dascalu with the elbows out big time (amongst many others of course).

Strong ride from Cooper. Kept it very steady. Gaze looked good, but seemed to have burnt one too many matches by the time he got involved near the front lap 7 and faded a bit.

Fluckiger looks very strong for Sunday 😬. Nino looked reasonably comfortable but couldn't hold the wheel on the final attack. I'm not sure 100% what to take from that.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

That mens short track, so good today.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

What I find interesting about short track is there is no dominant rider; however, Langvad was, as was MvdP who had a ridiculous strike rate. Also, both World Champions have never won a short track World Cup....


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Rissveds reminds me of Langvad, with better technical skills. I wish we would have gotten to see them ride the Cape Epic together. That would have been epic indeed.

JFYI. Annika had a bad fall about 3 weeks ago and broke her shoulder.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Augustus-G said:


> Rissveds reminds me of Langvad, with better technical skills. I wish we would have gotten to see them ride the Cape Epic together. That would have been epic indeed.
> 
> JFYI. Annika had a bad fall about 3 weeks ago and broke her shoulder.


Yes I saw this on her instagram


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

mail_liam said:


> Fun and very aggressive racing! Rissveds and Dascalu with the elbows out big time (amongst many others of course).
> 
> Strong ride from Cooper. Kept it very steady. Gaze looked good, but seemed to have burnt one too many matches by the time he got involved near the front lap 7 and faded a bit.
> 
> Fluckiger looks very strong for Sunday . Nino looked reasonably comfortable but couldn't hold the wheel on the final attack. I'm not sure 100% what to take from that.


I suspect Nino is more concerned about a front row start for Sunday than winning short track. Not sure he had it in him to stay on their wheel at the end but most importantly he has front row for tomorrow. I’d love to see Nino win at home and get 34. But the competition is so good it’s getting harder for him each year as he gets older. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

trmn8er said:


> I suspect Nino is more concerned about a front row start for Sunday than winning short track. Not sure he had it in him to stay on their wheel at the end but most importantly he has front row for tomorrow. I’d love to see Nino win at home and get 34. But the competition is so good it’s getting harder for him each year as he gets older.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I agree, that's kind of part of my point. It _looked_ like he was comfortable and didn't need to go with them. Hopefully he could have if he wanted.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I think he laid out what he could. He’s never been an explosive short track racer. His strength in the XCO as always been short highly explore attacks and then sustain a high threshold. Short track requires maximal efforts every lap and it appear he just doesn’t have that strength anymore. In the XCO now his strength is in taking control of the race in the first lap after Henry burns himself and others out


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## donR (11 mo ago)

Good to see Kate make it to the front row. Hopefully signs of something good to come in the XCO. Would be good to see her gets some results after what was a great start when she was with Specialized. 

What is the points differential for XCO vs XCC.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

WOW!!! WTF just happened here!!!! Let's put Nino and Fluck in a ring with boxing gloves and let them duke it out!!!


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

mens XCO  OMG! Awesome finish well earnt


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

That was one helluva race....would love to know what happened. Possibly a follow on from two races last season....and Matthias wasn't having any of it. All speculation.....


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> Some good racing in the next few weeks. I'm not even gonna bother picking who can or will win and I'm just gonna pick a few dark horses outside of the top five who can surprise a lot of people...
> 
> Men: Sam Gaze, Blevins, Ulloa and Filippo Colombo.
> 
> Women: Kate, Keller, Batten, Evie and Frei.


Some of this picks raced well...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> That was one helluva race....would love to know what happened. Possibly a follow on from two races last season....and Matthias wasn't having any of it. All speculation.....


Pretty much. Matthias put the same move on Nino and Nino didn’t like it. Poor sportmanship by Nino imo


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

After last year’s World Champs and today’s race, I feel a kind of hostile mood between Fluckiger and Nino…
It’s a shame the cameras didn’t show what happened exactly.


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## Purulento (Aug 27, 2009)

At around 1:37h mark from the replay you can hear Nino angrily saying something to Mathias.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Schurter sobre la caída con Fluckiger: "no ha superado la derrota del año pasado. Habría ganado seguro"


"Habría ganado seguro" ha dicho Nino Schurter a la televisión suiza, además de explicar que Fluckiger ha tenido la culpa de la caída




esmtb.com





“I would surely have won”
“He hasn’t recovered form last year’s defeat”. 

Things are spicy between these two.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I like nino less and less


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> Pretty much. Matthias put the same move on Nino and Nino didn’t like it. Poor sportmanship by Nino imo


Do you know this? Or making an assumption? Obviously Fluckiger didn't do the same thing because they both went down. It was either on, or it wasn't.

To counter your later point.bi have less respect for Fluck. Without seeing it and whether Nino caused the crash. The responsibility is on the rider behind, which was Fluck.

Anyone speak Swiss and know what Nino was shouting at Mathias on the floor? Assumingly/sounded like swear words, but was there anything more informative?


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

mail_liam said:


> Do you know this? Or making an assumption? Obviously Fluckiger didn't do the same thing because they both went down. It was either on, or it wasn't.
> 
> To counter your later point.bi have less respect for Fluck. Without seeing it and whether Nino caused the crash. The responsibility is on the rider behind, which was Fluck.
> 
> Anyone speak Swiss and know what Nino was shouting at Mathias on the floor? Assumingly/sounded like swear words, but was there anything more informative?


This was my same thought... if it was exactly the same thing, then they would have finished 1-2 without a crash. If MF did indeed accidentally take Nino out, he has every right to be upset about it.

FYI Swiss speak German.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

khardrunner14 said:


> This was my same thought... if it was exactly the same thing, then they would have finished 1-2 without a crash. If MF did indeed accidentally take Nino out, he has every right to be upset about it.
> 
> FYI Swiss speak German.


I did know that, and I should have said German because the people that would be able to understand would have known. That's me being lazy sorry! They also speak French from my understanding, though clearly that's not what Nino was speaking.


....


Until I see the actual incident, I retain the right to be wrong here and will change my opinion, but I think Mathias lacks maturity and my gut feel says he tried to put a move on like Nino did last year. Difference being the move wasn’t on and he didn’t execute it the same! Nino has placed aggressive moves on people, but they are always clean.

Just watching the post race coverage - disappointed in Mathias not owning a mistake. I get it, he’s bitter about being beaten last year, but just say I tried to pass and we came together and I’m sorry.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

khardrunner14 said:


> FYI Swiss speak German.


we speak Swiss German (ie: no German would understand the post race interviews, a Swiss will, we also have French, Italian and Reto Romanish?? as National Languages)

Fluck caused the crash, Nino was most unhappy at the end of the race, as we all heard, and Flucks interview made it painfully obvious (although he never said it) that it was his fault.

Post race Nino yelled at Fluck:
"you are not normal, really, you are not normal"
someone else can be heard saying to Nino "anstandig, hey anstandig" (spelling may be incorrect) meaning 'hey be polite, polite' which lm guessing had to do with the cameras


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

cmg said:


> we speak Swiss German (ie: no German would understand the post race interviews, a Swiss will, we also have French, Italian and Reto Romanish?? as National Languages)
> 
> Fluck caused the crash, Nino was most unhappy at the end of the race, as we all heard, and Flucks interview made it painfully obvious (although he never said it) that it was his fault.
> 
> ...


Thank you very much for the translation 🤟! 

I agree with all you said above (and appreciate the information about the language). 

Relatedly, I did think it was a sub-dialect, but would have (foolishly) assumed that German speakers would be able to understand Swiss German. 

Thanks again.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

cmg said:


> we speak Swiss German (ie: no German would understand the post race interviews, a Swiss will, we also have French, Italian and Reto Romanish?? as National Languages)
> 
> Fluck caused the crash, Nino was most unhappy at the end of the race, as we all heard, and Flucks interview made it painfully obvious (although he never said it) that it was his fault.
> 
> ...


I was just going to write that I understand German, but swiss deutch is like a completely different language for me 😅

I can understand nino being upset, he is not going to get that many more chances for that final victory...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Do you know this? Or making an assumption? Obviously Fluckiger didn't do the same thing because they both went down. It was either on, or it wasn't.
> 
> To counter your later point.bi have less respect for Fluck. Without seeing it and whether Nino caused the crash. The responsibility is on the rider behind, which was Fluck.
> 
> Anyone speak Swiss and know what Nino was shouting at Mathias on the floor? Assumingly/sounded like swear words, but was there anything more informative?


Pals of mine were standing close to where it happened. They hooked bars in a section where the trail narrowed from dual lane to single track. Matthias had drawn alongside and looked to be slightly ahead . Too fast to know for sure. They hooked bars since neither was prepared to yield. They went down and Alan and Luca had to jump over their bikes. Nino has pulled these moves on Matthias and others in the past ( one the major reasons Avancini doesn’t like Nino) and expects the other rider to yield because he’s got it on his head he’s the greatest of all time therefore… yield. Matthias didn’t agree with that today and as he said, that’s racing. The reason I have more respect for Matthias is because when Nino pulled this on Matthias and Matthias came off 2nd best he didn’t complain.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Pals of mine were standing close to where it happened. They hooked bars in a section where the trail narrowed from dual lane to single track. Matthias had drawn alongside and looked to be slightly ahead . Too fast to know for sure. They hooked bars since neither was prepared to yield. They went down and Alan and Luca had to jump over their bikes. Nino has pulled these moves on Matthias and others in the past ( one the major reasons Avancini doesn’t like Nino) and expects the other rider to yield because he’s got it on his head he’s the greatest of all time therefore… yield. Matthias didn’t agree with that today and as he said, that’s racing. The reason I have more respect for Matthias is because when Nino pulled this on Matthias and Matthias came off 2nd best he didn’t complain.


Except Matthias did complain quite a lot after worlds when it was clearly his fault: he left the door open. He later apologized. Good on him.

When Nino passed last year in Lenzerheide, MF was already gassed and letting Koretzky get away. That’s probably the only reason the pass of Nino worked. I assumed at the time that’s why he tried it: he had the legs and MF didn’t. Perhaps he didn’t complain then for a reason (or maybe he did, I didn’t check).

Overall, I’d say it’s a bit bold to claim Nino has pulled these moves on other riders. How many times has he crashed out with others? Maybe it’s just the reality that he often is the strongest. Not trying to defend Nino, per se, but I don’t really see the gripe. And Avancini, who has an amazing personal story, also to have issues with more than just Nino at times.

I didn’t see it today. That was not a common place to stand. Also not an elite rider, so don’t know the etiquette, but if I were trying to pass on a really short section and could only get even or “maybe just ahead” before it goes back to single, then I’d expect the original leader to have priority. (Maybe I’m also just another guy who’s gonna get beat by Nino?) Either you make the pass or not; not, you make the pass or play chicken till you crash out.

In any case, it was pretty unfortunate for Swiss racing. Gonna be a great rest of the season though. MF and Nino are clearly on form and the aggression all day today between them was nuts. Guess it won’t stop now… maybe some other riders will also get to benefit. Ha.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> Pals of mine were standing close to where it happened. They hooked bars in a section where the trail narrowed from dual lane to single track. Matthias had drawn alongside and looked to be slightly ahead . Too fast to know for sure. They hooked bars since neither was prepared to yield. They went down and Alan and Luca had to jump over their bikes. Nino has pulled these moves on Matthias and others in the past ( one the major reasons Avancini doesn’t like Nino) and expects the other rider to yield because he’s got it on his head he’s the greatest of all time therefore… yield. Matthias didn’t agree with that today and as he said, that’s racing. The reason I have more respect for Matthias is because when Nino pulled this on Matthias and Matthias came off 2nd best he didn’t complain.


He complained big time and had a rant on IG. Also, Nino didn't take him down so it's not exactly the same.


I take what you're saying about positioning. If Mathias genuinely had his bars in front then that may change things. To me it's also how it happens. My gut still says Mathias had committed to a move long before the section (deeming that's what Nino has done to him in the past), and the move was likely never on. A bit like someone dive bombing a corner, sure they can get the bars in front, but if the move isn't going to stick and is forcing a crash that's a dick move in my books.

Avancinii doesn't like anyone and is an aggressive racer, I wouldn't take his personal opinion on riders too seriously. He was complaining in the pre-race coverage of the XCC that racing was now too physical. I think he's just found the whole field has lifted. It's harder to fight for space when there's 12 riders capable of winning instead of one and a half.

I may still be completely wrong on this, but based on Mathias' moves in the past and his response I'm picking he was trying to make a point.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Over on PB they’re discussing Nino slapping MF at the Finishline.

I have to say the MF sounded a bit sheepish in the post interview…like my kid does when he’s messed something up.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I always tell young racers to race like they want to be raced.If you are going to sit on wheels and don't pull then don't expect people to pull through when you are at front. If you are going to make aggressive passes then expect people will do the same to you.

Nino made two aggressive passes last year that would have been crash if Mathias hadn't yielded the line. I would say that Mathias was owed a yield.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> I always tell young racers to race like they want to be raced.If you are going to sit on wheels and don't pull then don't expect people to pull through when you are at front. If you are going to make aggressive passes then expect people will do the same to you.
> 
> Nino made two aggressive passes last year that would have been crash if Mathias hadn't yielded the line. I would say that Mathias was owed a yield.



I don't agree that they are the same. Both opportunities last year, whilst very aggressive, were not necessarily dangerous. It's all very subjective I guess.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Yeah.
Nino pulls some aggressive moves that are considered “clean” just because the other racer probably feathered the brakes and avoided a crash. I guess Nino must be spoiled in a way. 
Well, today the other racer did not hold back.


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## Feideaux (Jan 14, 2004)

MF was certainly creating opportunities from 2nd wheel for the entire lap. On the wheel, on the hip, inside lines, overtaking NS in the feed (?) and LB before the drop. A late-lap bar entaglement became more likely as the finish line got closer...all the while Braidot was *right there*. To be honest, a little petulant of Nino to claim he was going to win for sure. Would be great to know if Frischnecht filed a protest in the allotted time. If he _didn't_, that would be very telling re: Nino's version of events.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Can't believe what happened in the men's race. I'm having a hard time figuring out who's good and who's bad in this ongoing Nino/Mathias dynamic. Everyone has their opinion but I think it's nuanced.


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## B R H (Jan 13, 2004)

If the pass was so close that bars were going to contact, it wasn't a clean pass. Last year Nino passed on grass with plenty of room. Was there any evidence that MF yielded? I heard nothing of the sort last year...


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Relatedly, I did think it was a sub-dialect, but would have (foolishly) assumed that German speakers would be able to understand Swiss German.


Like how english speakers don't understand 'merican.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

RexRacerX said:


> Either you make the pass or not; not, you make the pass or play chicken till you crash out.



This is the crux in my opinion. Sorry, missed your post earlier.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

B R H said:


> If the pass was so close that bars were going to contact, it wasn't a clean pass.


Just because it was not a clean pass does not place fault. Sometimes the person putting on the pass tries a move that cannot work and sometimes the person being passed takes aggressive action to prevent being passed that is over the line. We have no footage. We will never know.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

mail_liam said:


> Thank you very much for the translation !
> 
> I agree with all you said above (and appreciate the information about the language).
> 
> ...


sorry was in bed when l typed last night, so it was short.

A direct translation often doesnt convey the meaning, which is the case here.
Nino is basically saying "you are a F**king idiot!, truelly a F**king idiot"
which we clearly heard on the TV, which is obviously why someone stepped in to calm Nino

meh, my opinion aint worth poo, but 'rubbins racing'


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Bar-to-bar and the trail is narrowing with a World Cup win on the line on home soil? Who is going to yield in that situation? Lucky for Braidot and Hatherley not to get collected in the crash…

Definitely sets the table for some good battles to come. I don’t know if any of you watch World Superbikes, but I see a Rae/Toprak vibe. 

On another note, Kerschbaumer was in the top 10, and I don’t think this is the type of course where I’d expect him to excel. Maybe he’s coming back on form?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Carioca_XC said:


> Yeah.
> Nino pulls some aggressive moves that are considered “clean” just because the other racer probably feathered the brakes and avoided a crash. I guess Nino must be spoiled in a way.
> Well, today the other racer did not hold back.


Exactly


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

As already said, Nino isn't scared of firing it up the inside, expecting the other rider to yield - but probably doesn't expect it in return.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Bar-to-bar and the trail is narrowing with a World Cup win on the line on home soil? Who is going to yield in that situation? Lucky for Braidot and Hatherley not to get collected in the crash…
> 
> Definitely sets the table for some good battles to come. I don’t know if any of you watch World Superbikes, but I see a Rae/Toprak vibe.
> 
> On another note, Kerschbaumer was in the top 10, and I don’t think this is the type of course where I’d expect him to excel. Maybe he’s coming back on form?


Kerschbaumer rode a great race. In other news my other favourite lady finished 19th ahead of some big names
Glad to see Martina Berta performed to potential. I hope she can maintain it.
I’m guessing Becks Mac is busy with a training block and is suffering heavy legs in prep for the seasons end but at 1poinr behind Loana who I expect to be on form again this weekend in Andorra. 
jenny has a fantastic training regime going. She’s been there or thereabouts since the star of the season. No win on Sunday yet but she consist and the overall is within her reach as well as rainbow colours.
Mittenwallner is a probably the disappointment of the season for me. She’s really struggling to live up to the hype. Maybe she should forget the hype and just have fun because she’s just not cracking it 

Henrique is struggling. Might be long covid.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

LMN said:


> I always tell young racers to race like they want to be raced.If you are going to sit on wheels and don't pull then don't expect people to pull through when you are at front. If you are going to make aggressive passes then expect people will do the same to you.
> 
> Nino made two aggressive passes last year that would have been crash if Mathias hadn't yielded the line. I would say that Mathias was owed a yield.


At the world it was open door, not aggrresive pass, *Koretzky* beat Nino with the same move in Albstadt, and Nino wasn't complaining like Flückiger at the worlds...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Also consider that it might not have been a clean defence.
It would be a worthwhile exercise for fans to go back through the years and scrutinise some of ninos passes and defence objectively. Everyone is wrapped up in the fall of Absalons win record that the how the wins are achieved is no longer questioned.
I don’t consider Matthias coy demeanour post race to be an admission of guilt. If you’re a shy quiet individual and you get shouted at in the manner Nino cursed Matthias you will also be embarrassed. Also all the riders who saw what went down or weee party to it don’t want to be in the receiving end of fan backlash. May a post race statement like “Nino wouldn’t yield “ is like painting a target on your back. The media will want interviews , your statements will be scrutinised unpacked re packaged and different interpretations will surface which you will have to respond too. Just look at what Avancini experienced when he had a war of words with Nino at cape epic. When you’re focussed on the next race, or winning your first you don’t want to court controversy and I can see there’s a strong element of that in Matthias response as well as Braidot and Hatherly.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Nino was fined after the race for inappropriate behaviour.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Nino was fined after the race for inappropriate behaviour.


Didn’t see this reported anywhere but I’m not surprised. A lesser rider would have had their license suspended for a month


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Didn’t see this reported anywhere but I’m not surprised. A lesser rider would have had their license suspended for a month


Reporting:



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/nino-schurter-receives-penalty-fine-at-the-lenzerheide-xc-world-cup-2022.html



Not sure about warranting a suspension, based on that alone, though. Who knows what was the part about the commissaires - not me.


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## B R H (Jan 13, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Just because it was not a clean pass does not place fault. Sometimes the person putting on the pass tries a move that cannot work and sometimes the person being passed takes aggressive action to prevent being passed that is over the line. We have no footage. We will never know.


Video would be useful. Riders at this level can make the pass without contact if there is room. MF did it a few other times during this and other races. If there wasn’t room he should have just backed off and waited for the sprint where he likely would have won. Seems far more likely MF screwed up to me.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

During commentary, Bart mentioned the possibility of a World Cup round in Valkenburg in the near future. Hosts the Amstel Gold Race, and CX World Cup/Championships in the past. One hopes this does come off.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

It seems to be a rarity that top male (and sometime female) athletes in any sport aren't sort of assholes. They do things which are extraordinary, get a lot of attention for their abilities, and make tons on money, all of which are key ingredients to giving people very inflated egos. MF or NS both have HUGE egos. In fact all of the top 5 men have outsized egos. Part of that is never saying its your fault, taking personal responsibility, or being gracious. Most of us know nothing of this (we watch stuff on TV and don't see any behind the scenes action, like practice sessions), maybe LMN does because his wife raced at the very top. However, Pendrel is a very gracious athlete but I am certain she witnessed some terrible behavior.

I used to race in the AMA in Pro Thunder back in the late 90's and early 2000's. In some ways, motorcycle racing is very much like bicycle racing (road or dirt). It is the responsibility of the overtaking rider to make a clean pass and it is the responsibility of the rider being overtaken to keep a clean line while being overtaken. This said, it you leave the door open, don't get mad when I stuff myself through it, as long as we don't touch (much) or I don't create an unreasonable hazard in making the move.

I am sure the UCI will investigate this situation and we will all hear about it.


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

If you make an unclean pass and there's a collision, typically one would blame the passer, and that's understandable. However there's also a distinct possibility of blocking by the rider in front.

I recall attempting a pass where there was room on a slim straightaway, but the front rider didn't yield and we came up to a tree gate. My bars clipped the tree and we both went down, me doing a front flip and tragicomically, landed sitting down looking out on a lake as if I was just relaxing, ha.

Like Flueckiger, it was with a chief rival, and we nearly got into a fight. His pace was clearly too low early in the race, and from my point of view, he was blocking. We both suffered loss of placing due to the crash but I agree with Flueckiger's take:

_"I would say it's just part of the race." "I'm sorry we crashed, of course. But we're here to race."_

I'm a big Flueckiger fan. He's got guts to take on the #1 GOAT guy, his own countryman, and beat him on a good day.









Schurter accuses Fluckiger of knocking him down in the last meters of Lenzerheide:


The most important moment of the Lenzerheide XCO World Cup happened far away from the TV cameras.




en.brujulabike.com


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

Here are a screen shots of the final TV moments right before the collision of MF into NS. You can see NS taking a wider line initiating the turn setup and beginning to lean his bike into the corner. MF must have seen that and felt he could go inside. When you are leaning over you are wider on the trail and unless there was a good bit of speed differential between them, which it doesn't appear to be in that moment, MF passing trajectory looks like it would have crossed NS's wider line. Draw your own conclusions.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

beastmaster said:


> It seems to be a rarity that top male (and sometime female) athletes in any sport aren't sort of assholes. They do things which are extraordinary, get a lot of attention for their abilities, and make tons on money, all of which are key ingredients to giving people very inflated egos. MF or NS both have HUGE egos. In fact all of the top 5 men have outsized egos. Part of that is never saying its your fault, taking personal responsibility, or being gracious. Most of us know nothing of this (we watch stuff on TV and don't see any behind the scenes action, like practice sessions), maybe LMN does because his wife raced at the very top. However, Pendrel is a very gracious athlete but I am certain she witnessed some terrible behavior.


Very few people are good at taking personal responsibility. I know when ever there as an incident my first instinct is to blame someone else.

Like everyone, athletes are two people, they have a work self and normal self. How someone behaves in the heat of competition can be completely different than their normal.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

LMN said:


> Very few people are good at taking personal responsibility. I know when ever there as an incident my first instinct is to blame someone else.
> 
> Like everyone, athletes are two people, they have a work self and normal self. How someone behaves in the heat of competition can be completely different than their normal.


Unfortunately, you are correct. Most people don't take personal responsibility for their actions. This is, in part, why we are where we are in the world.
I had a coach when I was a kid who had a great saying and I believe it might pertain even to this situation. "Attitude determines altitude."
This all said, your wife always seemed to be a class act in her racing career. Good on her!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Almost non related, but a few years ago at a stage race, Ben Sonntag clipped my handlebar going full speed at a down hill but none of us crashed. After the finish line, I went to apologize to him cuz I was slower and he was racing for a lot more money than me. We had a few laughs. A couple of stages later, on another downhill, a rock caught my pedal or rear wheel taking me out and the rider behind me. We both checked ourselves and continued to race as hard as we could for the rest of the stage. Afterwards, on the recovery beer, we both laughed and shared thoughts on what could have been a nastier crash. 

Nino and Fluck were both NASCAR drivers coming into the last turn and both should be thankful that no bones were broken and can continue with the season. Stop blaming one another, apologize and move on. If winning is the only thing that matter at all costs, then both are BIG RICHARDS. Look and Fabio Jakobsen / Dylan Groenewegen and Neff / PFP a few years ago.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Super spicy men's finish! And commentary! I'm waiting anxiously for someone to post smartphone video of it, but after 24 hours still nothing so maybe it will remain unseen. My hunch is they came together, Nino's bars were in front so he refused to yield, MF has a gripe with Nino regarding hard sketchy passes so he refused to yield, they take each other out and end up 3-4 instead of 1-2, spoiling what was all teed up to be a Swiss 1-2 at a Swiss WC. Major bummer for the Swiss guys and Swiss fans, Braidot and Hatherly seized the moment and good on them for making their own luck by being right there.


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

Not that I would ever expect it to happen, but if Luca or Alan saw it and weighed in that would be super interesting...I'm sure neither would want to speak ill of the reigning overall champ or nine-time Nino!!

I was definitely sad watching it to see those two guys feeling so bad after an amazing race. It almost seems as the playing field starts to level out and there are more contenders, someone like Nino maybe sees that he needs an edge so he starts taking chances with his passes in trickier spots instead of the usual, "go so hard that nobody can even stay with me" approach. Then when someone tries a similar move on him he doesn't reciprocate and ease off, then they hit the dirt.

May be a bit of a learning curve for Nino! If you want to dish it out you gotta be able to take it too...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

beastmaster said:


> Here are a screen shots of the final TV moments right before the collision of MF into NS. You can see NS taking a wider line initiating the turn setup and beginning to lean his bike into the corner. MF must have seen that and felt he could go inside. When you are leaning over you are wider on the trail and unless there was a good bit of speed differential between them, which it doesn't appear to be in that moment, MF passing trajectory looks like it would have crossed NS's wider line. Draw your own conclusions.
> 
> View attachment 1991079
> 
> ...


This is certainly a prelude but there is a bit of trail between these shots and the Swiss tv shot of Luca Braidot and Alan Hatherly emerging from the forest. There’s a section where the trail splits and then converges. According to Alan’s interview that’s where the Swiss banged bars and crashed. Alan won’t spill the beans, as he’s not going to talk about others mistakes where blame has not been apportioned. Also if it happened where I think it did then he would not have had full sight of it unfolding as I doubt he would be looking that far down the trail. Braidot would have had a much better view as he was right behind them at this point


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

I am amazed that Luca Braidot and Alan Hatherly could be so guarded and buttoned down in their post race interviews. Do they have media training and practice for such occasions? (wonder if Jenny, Evie or Bec might have been less guarded and more expressive?)

Did Bec ever get fined for swearing in her post race interview in Brazil?


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

ccm said:


> I am amazed that Luca Braidot and Alan Hatherly could be so guarded and buttoned down in their post race interviews. Do they have media training and practice for such occasions? (wonder if Jenny, Evie or Bec might have been less guarded and more expressive?)
> 
> Did Bec ever get fined for swearing in her post race interview in Brazil?


They seem like two pretty mind-mannered guys, I'd think they were still in shock having witnessed that - especially if Nino did in fact slap MF after the race as some commenters are saying!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I’m watching the finish line shenanigans again and MF is standing in the right hand side of the screen while LB is celebrating on the ground. Nino storms in and shouts and then MF is lying on the ground looking up at Nino. I think there was a physical altercation but it’s *not* very clear. Fluck could have been in process of sitting down but he might have been…assisted


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ccm said:


> I am amazed that Luca Braidot and Alan Hatherly could be so guarded and buttoned down in their post race interviews. Do they have media training and practice for such occasions? (wonder if Jenny, Evie or Bec might have been less guarded and more expressive?)
> 
> Did Bec ever get fined for swearing in her post race interview in Brazil?


Alan is a very humble kid. I’ve watched him literally grow up on his Mtb within our racing community. I’ve never seen him have so much as bad thing to say about anyone never mind another competitor even when he broke both wrists in an accident involving another rider. His guardedness is really just his personality. WYSIWYG. There’s no two different people with him. Braidot seems very similar.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

https://m.pinkbike.com/news/nino-schurter-receives-penalty-fine-at-the-lenzerheide-xc-world-cup-2022.html



Is there any chance you could pretty please translate the interviews in the video clips from a Swiss TV on the PB page?


....


Also, @Brad you make an interesting point about the trail there. If there's a true separation and rejoining of the trails that adds an element of complication that is different as well. I wish we had footage of the trail there. I have watched the Pivot Cycles and other course previews but couldn't tell you what's there. My assumption was it must be relatively straightforward for them to not bother at all with filming it.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> https://m.pinkbike.com/news/nino-schurter-receives-penalty-fine-at-the-lenzerheide-xc-world-cup-2022.html
> 
> 
> 
> ...








around 10min 27 sec in there is a tree in the middle of the course. The course widens around it then narrows as it turns to the right. This area I believe is the area where the sparking happened


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## mhosfelt (Oct 26, 2017)

I was just glad I was spared another shameless, over the top, cringe worthy celebration by NS like the one in Brazil.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> around 10min 27 sec in there is a tree in the middle of the course. The course widens around it then narrows as it turns to the right. This area I believe is the area where the sparking happened



Looks like there are _TWO _places with a line choice in a very short distance.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> around 10min 27 sec in there is a tree in the middle of the course. The course widens around it then narrows as it turns to the right. This area I believe is the area where the sparking happened


Great preview vid. Thanks for that.

I think I see it. Though those points look like *terrible* passing points to me? It looks like there's a fast line and an 'other' line.

I still think it's in one of the slightly wider open bits. Just completely guesswork. It's starting to fill out the picture I guess, but it still looks like forcing a pass that wasn't on.

I guess we'll never know unless Braidot says, but he probably wouldn't have been able to see. The only way I can say that it's not a Fluck stuff up is if he managed to get clearly in front on one of those sections. 

We all have different tolerances etc for racing ethics. Personally, I don't have any patience for dive bombing tactics etc and "forcing" someone to hit the brakes to avoid contact. I also think that it's the rider behind responsibility to give way. If there is a trail fork, there's usually one line that is the main trail and a deviation, and same if you leave the trail to make the pass, you should be well and truly passed the rider to rejoin the trail. Not just handlebars.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Great preview vid. Thanks for that.
> 
> I think I see it. Though those points look like *terrible* passing points to me? It looks like there's a fast line and an 'other' line.
> 
> ...


you're not allowed to pass off trail. If you do its a DQ. you have to rejoin the trail where you left it.

That sections of trail from around 10:10 to 10:35 is the stretch we didn't have any camera coverage. There's quite a lot of areas to overtake as the trail is quite wide. There's also a few spots where the course ribbon runs well behind a tree opening up another line if you're brave enough. Its all pretty fast, open and rooty so perfect for a soap opera


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Soap Opera indeed lol.

I see the lines on other side's of the trees. They seem chunky and that you'd have to do something special to carry more speed across them than the main line. 

I mean, off trail, as in leave the smooth main line. You can ride up on the grass, but you better get all the way passed before dropping back "down".

It is all so crazy, because I think Mathias had the speed to win the sprint on the tarmac. That's why it strikes me as a moment of immaturity/questionable decision making.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Interestingly neither Mathias nor Nino posted something yet. I found Scott team post not so nice calling one of the best mtber right now as "someone". Especially for a team with this level.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Interestingly neither Mathias nor Nino posted something yet. I found Scott team post not so nice calling one of the best mtber right now as "someone". Especially for a team with this level.


I reckon this one sided tit for tat will reach boiling point in Andorra. Friday Nights XCC will be popcorn & beer worthy


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

cycloholic said:


> Interestingly neither Mathias nor Nino posted something yet. I found Scott team post not so nice calling one of the best mtber right now as "someone". Especially for a team with this level.


If it's the post I'm thinking of its probably the most appropriate way of doing it. The someone could be Braidot, or Mathias. 

I'm not saying a professional outfit like that should be posting any such thing, but that's the way I read the insinuated commentary.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> I reckon this one sided tit for tat will reach boiling point in Andorra. Friday Nights XCC will be popcorn & beer worthy


It'll be interesting if Nino posts an apology quicker than Mathias did last year.

Nino needs to be quick with getting in front of apologising for the outburst.

Equally I wish Mathias would just say, I stuffed up and forced a pass that didn't come off. If he *truly* believes it wasn't his fault, then come out and say I regret what happened, Nino shut the door on me and I had nowhere to go. 

What a mess.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> It'll be interesting if Nino posts an apology quicker than Mathias did last year.
> 
> Nino needs to be quick with getting in front of apologising for the outburst.
> 
> ...


I believe he regrets the apology last year. Maybe he felt he over-reacted and felt that apologising gave him the moral high ground but all he did was allow Nino further into his head. He literally gave Nino a justification for sending it up the inside, for forcing Carod wide at the World Cup. I reckon he had a rethink about it and decided next time I won't give him so much credit. Why build Nino's brand while burning his own? At this point his coach should be telling him "reinforce what you said post race, its a race, we raced, we collided, its unfortunate. I've moved on." Nothing will get into Nino head more than an apology that isn't an apology. Nino plays mind games, Matthias has to play them harder and stronger.
If asked if he would do anything different? " No, maybe it has t happen more often but I won't be gifting him any positions again". drops mike, Walks off


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Was that section of the trail covered by the cameras during the women's race? It seems the coverage was a bit different.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Was that section of the trail covered by the cameras during the women's race? It seems the coverage was a bit different.


I seem to remember a section of course that looked similar with the camera facing at the riders.... maybe another part of the course though.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Was that section of the trail covered by the cameras during the women's race? It seems the coverage was a bit different.


don't know, will check. Perfect excuse to watch a re-run of Jenny


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> I believe he regrets the apology last year. Maybe he felt he over-reacted and felt that apologising gave him the moral high ground but all he did was allow Nino further into his head. He literally gave Nino a justification for sending it up the inside, for forcing Carod wide at the World Cup. I reckon he had a rethink about it and decided next time I won't give him so much credit. Why build Nino's brand while burning his own? At this point his coach should be telling him "reinforce what you said post race, its a race, we raced, we collided, its unfortunate. I've moved on." Nothing will get into Nino head more than an apology that isn't an apology. Nino plays mind games, Matthias has to play them harder and stronger.
> If asked if he would do anything different? " No, maybe it has t happen more often but I won't be gifting him any positions again". drops mike, Walks off


I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree with your points here. I thought the apology was appropriate and helped his brand. That's just me I guess, I didn't like the blaming when last year's was "just racing" and that's the kind of thing I'd like to see in the athletes that I am watching with my kids.

This time around I'm embarrassed for Nino at the outburst, I'd like to see him be the bigger man, again for the kids more than anything. He's the rider that I cheer with my six and four year olds when we aren't yelling at Anton and Sam and Ben.


Luckily, my opinion doesn't mean anything. I appreciate the open and healthy debate.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Was that section of the trail covered by the cameras during the women's race? It seems the coverage was a bit different.


There was an extra section covered slightly further up and it did cover the trail split around the tree. The camera angle used actually provided a better view of the twisty track further back and if it was used in the mens race we would have had a better shot of the incident. However the producer did seem to have an annoying habit of cutting to moody slow motion shots of riders on the trail 1km further back!!


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> However the producer did seem to have an annoying habit of cutting to moody slow motion shots of riders on the trail 1km further back!!


I did notice that Rob kept acknowledging (read: apologizing for) the Swiss video feed. It was pretty bad at times.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> I'll have to respectfully agree to disagree with your points here. I thought the apology was appropriate and helped his brand. That's just me I guess, I didn't like the blaming when last year's was "just racing" and that's the kind of thing I'd like to see in the athletes that I am watching with my kids.
> 
> This time around I'm embarrassed for Nino at the outburst, I'd like to see him be the bigger man, again for the kids more than anything. He's the rider that I cheer with my six and four year olds when we aren't yelling at Anton and Sam and Ben.
> 
> ...


no problem a different view is important. I'm looking at it from a professional athletes perspective where getting into your opponents head is part of the game. It's not natural to most people but when faced with an adversary who uses that effectively you either have to be incredibly mentally tough in the opposite direction or play the same game better and harder.
I think its important to own your mistakes but don't let your opponent on you to the extent you grovel for forgiveness. Matthias main problem with Nino's move was his own sense of fairness was violated when Nino doesn't limit himself to the same beliefs.

Just re-watching the ladies race and there's a couple of occasions where Pauline pulls some Nino moves on Jolanda and Neff is clearly annoyed by it. Rob and Bart share some banter on it and simply state "that's racing" which is pretty much what Matthias said.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> I'm looking at it from a professional athletes perspective where getting into your opponents head is part of the game. It's not natural to most people but when faced with an adversary who uses that effectively you either have to be incredibly mentally tough in the opposite direction or play the same game better and harder.


It is a very insightful thing you wrote. I roadraced motorcycles professionally in the early 80's. I was young and naive and had no "killer instinct". I just thought that everyone else played by the rules that were in my head, which was "be kind". Silly me. It was quite shocking to learn how ruthless people can be when they really want to win. Nino reminds me a lot of a very famous personality from back then that I was in some races with. They called him King and he and Nino behave a lot alike. And I have no respect for either of them as a person for those reasons and at the same time can be super impressed by what they have accomplished on the track as riders.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

jrob300 said:


> It is a very insightful thing you wrote. I roadraced motorcycles professionally in the early 80's. I was young and naive and had no "killer instinct". I just thought that everyone else played by the rules that were in my head, which was "be kind". Silly me. It was quite shocking to learn how ruthless people can be when they really want to win. Nino reminds me a lot of a very famous personality from back then that was in some races with. They called him King and they behave a lot alike. And I have no respect for either of them as a person for those reasons and at the same time can be super impressed by what they have acomplished on the track as riders.


I agree, people that are called "King" or declare themselves as "King" or tell everybody that they know what is best for everyone else are people that are best to be avoided (Type A personalities).


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

BoyinBlue said:


> I agree, people that are called "King" or declare themselves as "King" or tell everybody that they know what is best for everyone else are people that are best to be avoided (Type A personalities).


Yip observe from a distance.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Good racing all round  

Overtaking at top-level racing is going to lose its polite side quickly when both the riders want and can taste the win 

Enduro(off-topic) I use to give a couple of yells to the rider I was catching and if they ignored me and went pasted perfect places to give me room, well let's just say I made room.


Bec swearing  that's just _strayan _English


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

theMISSIONARY said:


> Bec swearing  that's just _strayan _English


One of the reasons I love Bec and Tom Pidcock... no fluff... no filter. Ya get whatcha get.


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Good to see Emily getting closer. I know she's busting her butt for one last shot and she's starting to see results. If she can get a 2nd row start this week in Andora, a top 15 would be possible.

^ Same goes for Kate in terms of seeing results.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

Sounds like MF tried to pass and took them both out. Brutal way to end a race. Hard to know how ill-advised or egregious it might be or not without footage. Any spectator footage out there yet? 

It would have been great to see the four in a shootout at the end.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Brad said:


> no problem a different view is important. *I'm looking at it from a professional athletes perspective* where getting into your opponents head is part of the game. It's not natural to most people but when faced with an adversary who uses that effectively you either have to be incredibly mentally tough in the opposite direction or play the same game better and harder.
> I think its important to own your mistakes but don't let your opponent on you to the extent you grovel for forgiveness. Matthias main problem with Nino's move was his own sense of fairness was violated when Nino doesn't limit himself to the same beliefs.
> 
> Just re-watching the ladies race and there's a couple of occasions where Pauline pulls some Nino moves on Jolanda and Neff is clearly annoyed by it. Rob and Bart share some banter on it and simply state "that's racing" which is pretty much what Matthias said.


Ok maybe I do the same, that's why I don't really see reasons for apologizing at all. It's exactly what Fluckiger said... It's racing, **** happens. Is it his fault? Maybe, I have no idea, as I have no idea what really happened, and most of us don't. But you can't expect people will just sit behind and wait less then 1km from finish line. Or even less, people should sit behind, because you think you are greatest of all and noone should try to attack you because you are planning to break some record, or I don't know what. You try. Sometimes it works, sometime it doesn't, and obviously this time it didn't work. But you try, even if it's "impossible place to overtake".
So I certainly don't blame Fluckiger for this. It's pro sport, not some fancy tea party where everyone are so damn politically correct. You have plenty of fist fights in ice hockey, and plenty of, sometimes really dangerous, starts straight into opponent player's legs in football (sorry soccer for you guys from other side of ocean), yet it's considered as part of sport. Sure you might get red card, but noone is going to apologize for that. And that's why I don't see any reason Fluckiger should say anything but "it's racing, **** happens, lets move forward".


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Would that be the 'King' whose son was 500cc World Champion in 2000??

However, the 'crash' and the lack of coverage raises another point. Should there be 'blind spots' in coverage for World Cup races? The top tier of the sport, and everybody guesses what happened? Hopefully, the new Discovery deal means more investment, and more cameras, better production, etc


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Would that be the 'King' whose son was 500cc World Champion in 2000??
> 
> However, the 'crash' and the lack of coverage raises another point. Should there be 'blind spots' in coverage for World Cup races? The top tier of the sport, and everybody guesses what happened? Hopefully, the new Discovery deal means more investment, and more cameras, better production, etc


Thing is in the ladies race that spot was covered (mostly) through better camera placement. Why was the camera moved?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> However, the 'crash' and the lack of coverage raises another point. Should there be 'blind spots' in coverage for World Cup races? The top tier of the sport, and everybody guesses what happened? Hopefully, the new Discovery deal means more investment, and more cameras, better production, etc


Like the blind spots in Brazil...


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Exmuhle said:


> Would that be the 'King' whose son was 500cc World Champion in 2000??
> 
> However, the 'crash' and the lack of coverage raises another point. Should there be 'blind spots' in coverage for World Cup races? The top tier of the sport, and everybody guesses what happened? Hopefully, the new Discovery deal means more investment, and more cameras, better production, etc


Nowadays I'm on the other side of the lens, even though not moving picture lens, but photo lens, but still, so I might have a bit more info regarding such things. Thing is, getting coverage of every centimeter of the track is hardly possible. Sure it can be done, but it costs a lot. And like it or not, mtb is not one of big sports, which means money in mtb is nowhere near to money in F1, moto GP, football or something similar. And on the end it all comes to money. With more money, you get more spectators, with more spectators, you get more demand for better quality tv production. And better quality tv production costs more. Every meter of cable that needs to be laid down costs money. Every extra camera and extra operator (it's normally 2-3 per camera) costs money. So it's not really realistic to expect every centimeter of track will be covered. Additional problem is sport itself. It's easy to have full coverage with only few cameras on moto track, while on mtb, when racing is done in middle of forest, things are harder and demand way more cameras and way bigger production, hence... more money.
I haven't been watching race, so I have no idea how women and men coverage was, but to question "why cameras were moved" it can be pretty easy answer. Some cameras are stationary, some are handheld. If this spot was covered during women race with handheld camera, director could decide that images were not good/interesting enough, and he moved camera to other position (too much to do to move stationary camera to other position in so short time between one and other race). If this was case, it's directors personal preference on what he/she considers as good or interesting. Or maybe it was agreed beforehand, that certain camera is used for women race, and operator will move to other position for men race. No idea, but it's not that unusual that certain cameras are not in use for specific race, and camera positions vary between races.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Because this is what it’s clearly become, here from the local tabloid regarding altercations after the race and why Nino was fined (partly for using a GoPro in training, which seems an odd reason for a fine - but what do I know about the UCI):









Was lief im Zielraum zwischen Schurter und Flückiger?


Das Mountainbike-Drama auf der Lenzerheide wirft auch am Tag danach noch hohe Wellen. Mit einer drängenden Frage: Was ist nach dem Rennen im Zielraum zwischen Nino Schurter und Mathias Flückiger passiert?




www.blick.ch





Google translate does a pretty good job on the subject.

The race was super entertaining. Glad we have another one this weekend.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

RexRacerX said:


> Because this is what it’s clearly become, here from the local tabloid regarding altercations after the race and why Nino was fined (partly for using a GoPro in training, which seems an odd reason for a fine - but what do I know about the UCI):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I knew that you cant have a camera on race, but you cant have it even in training?!

"It is suddenly rumored that Schurter is also said to have hit his opponent."
Oh ****, thats not cool.

Both said they are not resentful, but when the heat is on while racing you ll never forget those things! Pop corn and beers next friday !


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> I knew that you cant have a camera on race, but you cant have it even in training?!
> 
> "It is suddenly rumored that Schurter is also said to have hit his opponent."
> Oh ****, thats not cool.


Could be a matter of how it was mounted


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

It was a chest mount! Still cant find something specific for training. Maybe as you said they fine him for the chest mount, supposed it can be dangerous?! Those UCI rules are so unclear, damn.

4.1.042 Cameras are not permitted during final for cross-country and during qualifying rounds and final for downhill/four cross/cross-country eliminator. The riders are responsible for securing the fixation of the cameras in order to avoid any danger. The UCI can decide to allow a camera during final but only for the usage of the TV production company Comment: 1. see also, in particular, articles 1.3.001-1.3.003 and 1.3.031 Part 1 of the UCI Regulations 2. cameras may be used during training sessions in DHI (article 4.3.021) under the conditions laid down in this article. (article introduced on 1.01.18; 1.01.19)


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I think they want it in the bike only and not on the rider. I was asked to remove my chest mount during practice for a local provincial XCO race. It had to be on the bIke or bars


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> I knew that you cant have a camera on race, but you cant have it even in training?!
> 
> "It is suddenly rumored that Schurter is also said to have hit his opponent."
> Oh ****, thats not cool.
> ...


If true he’s a lot more trouble than just the fine. Could be why there’s radio silence


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Chest mounts are really dangerous if you ask me. Try to go over handlebar and crash on ground with that thing on. I did once with skis, and snow is whole lot softer then ground, and I have no intention to repeat this  
Another things are tv rights. With all normal sports, you are paying for tv rights, and without this, you are not allowed to shoot anything but photos on and around event. No idea how it's with mtb, as I wasn't shooting mtb for ages now, but this could be one of reasons, why cameras are not allowed.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

cycloholic said:


> "It is suddenly rumored that Schurter is also said to have hit his opponent."
> Oh ****, thats not cool.


I'm sure in finish there was plenty of people around, who saw what happened, but based on this what's written in previously linked article, I would say he actually did hit him.

Schurter selbst wehrt sich: «Ich habe Mathias nicht geschlagen, sondern ihm lediglich auf den Rücken geklopft.»

If you are yelling to someone straight after crossing finish line, about him not being normal, then I'm pretty sure it wasn't just friendly pat on the back like "well done buddy".


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

Again, here are a series of screen shots directly following the end of the race. We can see MF getting off his bike, NS arriving (MF's back is to NS), MF thru NS's bike settling onto the ground (his back is to NS and he is beginning to sit--look carefully and you can see MF leg orientation with his knee bending towards the metal fence), and MF on the ground looking up at NS with his glasses still on. With all the cameras there we would definitely have images of anyone hitting someone, and with so many people there to report such an act, if NS struck MF, the police would have come immediately to remand NS into custody. It is a criminal offense to hit someone unless it is self-defense in Switzerland. It seems highly unlikely that MF was hit by NS but strange things have happened. Draw your own conclusions...





































I understand why people don't like NS--he does seem rather pretentious. He is a very accomplished cyclist having equalled the best in history, JA, had a perfect racing season, and winning many Olympic metals along the way too. He is considerably more accomplished and has been at a higher level than MF for a long time. I don't think either man would be fun to spend time with--they are very intense and very driven, like almost all athletes at those levels. I don't know if NS has a sense of entitlement because of his successful racing history. NS does seem to receive more negative commentary here than MF.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

"if NS struck MF, the police would have come immediately to remand NS into custody. It is a criminal offense to hit someone unless it is self-defense in Switzerland."

Really?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I think it's 99% MF ran into Nino trying to pass. If it was the other way around, MF would be the one going up to Nino and saying crap to him. That's just human nature. I actually don't like Nino, but he was on a mission Sunday, he really thought he was going to have the fairytale day he worked hard for all year. Those two were going at it like I haven't seen two go at it in years. It was a pure mental game of who wants it more than the other. And I have a feeling Nino just might have pulled it off on a sprint, coming around that corner to the finish line.

There is a life lesson in that race too. Luca and Alan just didn't quit or give up at all. They were probably thinking 3rd and 4th is pretty darn good - but you just never know with things. Two hot heads taking themselves down is unlikely, but not impossible. A win is a win. 

One thing's for sure, that was one of the best mens MTB race in a long time. Every single lap was good, no clear winner at all. I can't wait until Sunday, I hope it's a do-over and those two go at it again, with no crashes or flats.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

this is now getting funny


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

cmg said:


> this is now getting funny


It's about time that it became something other than really sad.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I like Nino.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

Here is a video of the finish interaction:








ninofluckies.mp4







drive.google.com


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Definitely a hand on the back but doesn’t look particularly violent. Anyway, changing the subject, do you all think Lecomte is going to run away with the season title now that she’s got the lead, or will McConnell or Rissveds edge her out? 
To me it looks like Lecomte is timing her form better this year and will continue with top placing if not runaway wins. McConnell seems to have peaked early and won’t be in contention. Rissveds seems like the biggest threat, but I don’t see her actually catching Lecomte for the title.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

uintah said:


> "if NS struck MF, the police would have come immediately to remand NS into custody. It is a criminal offense to hit someone unless it is self-defense in Switzerland."
> 
> Really?


So strict laws in Switzerland 😂


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well someone has to lay a charge first….


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

cmg said:


> sorry was in bed when l typed last night, so it was short.
> 
> A direct translation often doesnt convey the meaning, which is the case here.
> Nino is basically saying "you are a F**king idiot!, truelly a F**king idiot"
> ...


MF does come off as this in all ways to me. After most races and interviews. 

I don’t like the way he races, and the corner cuts and intensional optional lines. Throughout the race which created conflict… you knew something was going to go wrong. I was expecting it to be the merge before the feed zone. He couldn’t pull that one off in the last lap, so his door was closing

Bottom line, ninos racing IQ this race was demonstrated to be much higher. You could see the tactics play out as he baited people into swapping positions while staying 2nd wheel on lap 6.

MF got out played, and the final climbs where he MAY have been able to out watt/kg Nino for 45 seconds we’re gone. He raced like an AH the whole race and it finally cost both of them 1-2.

He should have settled in and gone toe to toe sprinting like a man. Shows you how much confidence he has against a sprint against Nino. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## sooshee (Jun 16, 2012)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Definitely a hand on the back but doesn’t look particularly violent. Anyway, changing the subject, do you all think Lecomte is going to run away with the season title now that she’s got the lead, or will McConnell or Rissveds edge her out?
> To me it looks like Lecomte is timing her form better this year and will continue with top placing if not runaway wins. McConnell seems to have peaked early and won’t be in contention. Rissveds seems like the biggest threat, but I don’t see her actually catching Lecomte for the title.


Lecomte announced on IG that she is sitting out Andorra to get some rest.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

sooshee said:


> Lecomte announced on IG that she is sitting out Andorra to get some rest.


its all about the world champs I guess. I bet no one goes to North America again.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Kate Courtney is also sitting out Andorra. She’s going to US champs and Canada and USA world cups. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

celswick said:


> Kate Courtney is also sitting out Andorra. She’s going to US champs and Canada and USA world cups.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Now that makes sense for her. You’d think she’d have a fairly easy route to the nat champs jersey, but there are some fast women here that don’t do world cups. But she’s doing great now and I bet she’d love to get a new jersey.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think Batten is also skipping Andora


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## gsteitz (Sep 9, 2011)

Fluckinger


FJSnoozer said:


> MF does come off as this in all ways to me. After most races and interviews.
> 
> I don’t like the way he races, and the corner cuts and intensional optional lines. Throughout the race which created conflict… you knew something was going to go wrong. I was expecting it to be the merge before the feed zone. He couldn’t pull that one off in the last lap, so his door was closing
> 
> ...



I've always felt the same way, he comes off very strange and always seems to complain or feel like things are stacked against him. It feels very similar to Sergio Garcia in golf. I can't help but feel he's still resentful of Nino's pass at the World Championships.

In a conflict, usually the person who blows it off is the one at fault.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Maybe Batty will come on form to give us Canadians someone to cheer for closer to the front. What happened to Hayley Hunter-Smith? I see her racing gravel instead of being at the World Cup. I think she podiumed a couple of seasons ago? 

This is probably my fourth season of watching XC, it’s fascinating to see how difficult it is to stay at the sharp end of the field. Nino’s staying power is remarkable, but it’ll be interesting to see how fired up he is after that last race.


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

AndrewHardtail said:


> McConnell seems to have peaked early and won’t be in contention.


Yeah, I'm wondering the same. She said on IG that at Leogang she was aiming somewhere in the top 7 (she got 7th) rather than on the podium due to how her training schedule was working, but she was disappointed to come 13th last weekend, so was obviously expecting come back stronger. Rissveds is scoring good points consistently, but I can't really judge if she'll be able to keep it up (this being only the first season I've been following).


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

The way MF was pushing those merges we COULD see made me feel anxious. Sooner or later they'd get there at about the same time and neither would yield.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

What happened to you canucks this year? The Diseras are way down, batty off, Hayley doing gravel. Having an off year for some reason.
Maybe they’ll pick it up for your race soon.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Maybe Batty will come on form to give us Canadians someone to cheer for closer to the front. What happened to Hayley Hunter-Smith? I see her racing gravel instead of being at the World Cup. I think she podiumed a couple of seasons ago?


If racing Gravel pays more, then it's where she'll ride.......And I don't blame any rider for doing what pays the best.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

No one is blaming anyone, just an observation.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

nya said:


> Here is a video of the finish interaction:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Here is a close up:









Das geschah wirklich zwischen Schurter und Flückiger


In der Mountainbike-Community kursiert ein Clip, der zeigt, was nach der Kollision zwischen Nino Schurter und Mathias Flückiger später im Ziel passierte.




www.blick.ch





Lololol


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

RexRacerX said:


> Here is a close up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's it?!?!? Why are the Pinkbike commenters trying to hard to hype this up, that was an "excuse me, I'd like to speak with you" tap, not a slap....good grief.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RexRacerX said:


> Here is a close up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So there was a limp wristed “hey you arsehole” tap on the back.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

MvDP quits the TdF.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Nice play back to a dick move Nino pulled on Fluck in a previous race where he forced him toward a tree during an overtake


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

After you watch what really happened, it really is not a big deal at all is it. If MF really did take down Nino, then Nino's response was actually pretty respectable. A younger Sam Gaze might have decked the dude LOL. This Sunday is going to be awesome.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> MvdP quits the TdF.


Not a surprise - should have happened earlier. No form at all, after racing hard in the Giro, and a brief classics campaign. And that is following a limited base after a winter off with injury. Attempting two GTs back to back seemed madness....


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Attempting a single Grand Tour seems madness to me. They're all idiots.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Brad said:


> So there was a limp wristed “hey you arsehole” tap on the back.


And two days before that video , you were spreading fake news that Nino slap MF in the face 🤡


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

It surely wasn't smack with fist in the eye, but like it or not, there should be no contact. And for contact, yeah dream on it's friendly pat on the back, there should be penalty... and not 100 or 200chf, but something closer to "well mister see you next year maybe, until then you are banned from racing". Because as soon as you allow stuff like this, even (or especially) if it's best and greatest slapping others, then it's not that far from having ice hockey fights between or after the races. While it's sometimes fun watching this on ice hockey, I have seen few cycling fists, and they are pathetic to watch, so I would prefer bike races without chicken fights.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Brad said:


> I’m watching the finish line shenanigans again and MF is standing in the right hand side of the screen while LB is celebrating on the ground. Nino storms in and shouts and then MF is lying on the ground looking up at Nino. I think there was a physical altercation but it’s *not* very clear. Fluck could have been in process of sitting down but he might have been…assisted





Skarhead said:


> And two days before that video , you were spreading fake news that Nino slap MF in the face 🤡


Not sure what you mean by your post. The above quote is what I posted. Nowhere did say anyone was slapped in the face.if I did please point it out


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

The way Pidcock is riding in the Tour today I don’t think Ineos will want him spending very much time on MTB in the future


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I was cheering Pidcock on. 22 years old, looked calm and collected the whole time. I think Tadej P is in real trouble from here on out. He could not get even one second of space between himself and JV. I wonder if Pidcock could go for GC someday? I also wonder if him showing up to a mtb world cup will seem like a local race compared to the Tour.


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

Another emotional day! I vividly remember cheering the then U14 Tom at CX National Trophy race, thinking that this kid might have a chance at being a pro one day! One of several times I have been able to race at the same event (if not category) as Tom, isn't cross wonderful?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I love what Mvdp did in MTB, but I must admit, Pidcock is more impressive. That dude is 22, and can switch around with ease. He's so small and light compared to VDP. VDP has incredible horsepower, but with his family history, you know he is conflicted between disciplines. Pidcock has none of that baggage. I hope he stays salty like he is for a long time.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

primoz said:


> It surely wasn't smack with fist in the eye, but like it or not, there should be no contact. And for contact, yeah dream on it's friendly pat on the back, there should be penalty... and not 100 or 200chf, but something closer to "well mister see you next year maybe, until then you are banned from racing". Because as soon as you allow stuff like this, even (or especially) if it's best and greatest slapping others, then it's not that far from having ice hockey fights between or after the races. While it's sometimes fun watching this on ice hockey, I have seen few cycling fists, and they are pathetic to watch, so I would prefer bike races without chicken fights.


By that logic. If Schurter is to receive such a harsh penalty to set an example, then Flückiger should receive a harsh penalty for "_instigation_" to set an example to other riders to not cause collisions (from NHL Rule 56 regarding instigation:..._conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season...Automatic suspensions assessed to players who are deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at any time in overtime)_

The instigator is not necessarily the one who throws the first punch, it can be the one who causes the altercation with "_menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats"_

However_, "The Referee is provided very wide latitude in the penalties which he may impose under this Rule. This is done intentionally to enable him to differentiate between the obvious degrees of responsibility of the participants either for starting the fighting or persisting in continuing the fighting. The discretion provided should be exercised realistically "_


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

He really is something else; in less than a year he's won Olympic MTB Gold, CX World Championship, and now a TdF stage to L'Alpe D'Huez.......Most cyclists would hope for just one. And I doubt he's anywhere near finished.....
He said on instagram the other day he'll be back in Morzine in 6 weeks - obviously preparing for the MTB Worlds...


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

I would prefer that WC XC courses have a longer finishing straight, allowing for authentic sprints. Cyclocross seems to have it figured out, designing courses that allow selection for technical prowess and fitness but if two riders come to the finish together there’s a fair way to battle it out down the stretch. That would mitigate (but not eliminate) the sort of conflicts seen at the end of last weeks race between Nino and MF.

And while I enjoyed Pidcock’s win at the TDF today as much as the next fan, the thought that he’ll ever contend for the overall GC win at a 3 week grand tour is naive (IMO). He climbed Alpe d’Huez several minutes slower than the yellow jersey group and they were largely not going all out. Pidcock won’t be able to climb with the front group of GC contenders throughout a 3 week stage race and he’s got a way to go to prove he can time trial well enough to contend.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I love what MvdP did in MTB, but I must admit, Pidcock is more impressive. That dude is 22, and can switch around with ease. He's so small and light compared to VDP. VDP has incredible horsepower, but with his family history, you know he is conflicted between disciplines. Pidcock has none of that baggage. I hope he stays salty like he is for a long time.


MvdP said in an interview with GCN last year that MTB Is his favourite discipline.....It was certainly his biggest challenge. I'd rather see him spend his summers racing the MTB than riding GTs; you're never going to see the best of him riding around for 3 weeks with only a few chances to win a stage.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

ccm said:


> By that logic. If Schurter is to receive such a harsh penalty to set an example, then Flückiger should receive a harsh penalty for "_instigation_" to set an example to other riders to not cause collisions (from NHL Rule 56 regarding instigation:..._conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season...Automatic suspensions assessed to players who are deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at any time in overtime)_
> 
> The instigator is not necessarily the one who throws the first punch, it can be the one who causes the altercation with "_menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats"_
> 
> However_, "The Referee is provided very wide latitude in the penalties which he may impose under this Rule. This is done intentionally to enable him to differentiate between the obvious degrees of responsibility of the participants either for starting the fighting or persisting in continuing the fighting. The discretion provided should be exercised realistically "_


So the UCI officials should apply rules from an entirely different sport? What am I missing here?


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

uintah said:


> So the UCI officials should apply rules from an entirely different sport? What am I missing here?


That "_there should be penalty... and not 100 or 200chf, but something closer to well mister see you next year maybe, until then you are banned from racing_". 
is a bad idea
plus hockey was already mentioned more than once in the reply I was quoting


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

primoz said:


> While it's sometimes fun watching this on ice hockey, I have seen few cycling fists, and they are pathetic to watch, so I would prefer bike races without chicken fights.


I got into one a long time ago in Pennsylvania. 
I had badly jammed my chain and lost contact with the Pro/Expert leader and was frantically threading my way back to the front through the Sports category. While riding up a crowned double track with muddy ruts I was yelling at walkers "Track!, Rider!" (with the old Norba rules, if you were riding, you had the right-of-way over walkers). All but one walker yielded up the hill, and I yelled at that one several times, so I buzzed his rear wheel, he unexpectedly dropped his bike in the middle of the crown (much in the same manner a hockey player takes of his gloves to start a fight) and I crashed on top of him. First thing I did was to push myself off of him and grab my handlebars, his reaction was to throw punches at me. My hands were on my bars so I couldn't use my arms to block in time. I couldn't believe how well I reacted, I pivoted for the first punch to take it into my shoulder and ducked my head to take the second punch on the leading edge of my helmet, then ran up to the top of hill with my bike before the third punch connected.
But the hot-head-walker was waiting for me at the finish since he was Sport category and had done fewer laps. He wanted to get me disqualified for throwing the first punch. I said my only contact with my hands was to "push up off of him" and that I had the right of way since I was riding and he was walking. He then wanted me to apologize or we would fight it out, and even though I thought I could take him because I was taller and had experienced his ineffecive punches already, I had still finished 2nd in Pro/Expert and didn't want to jeopardize any prizes coming to me, so I apologized, "I'm sorry I had to run over you". When he realized I wouldn't fight, he let it go.
Turns out he was the State College boxing champion in his weight category, and if I had fought, I would of had my clock cleaned.
I did win a new helmet though.


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## preda_0 (Feb 18, 2012)

MTB-mag.com on Instagram: "What really happened between @nschurter and @mathflueck at the end of the race in Lenzerheide"

Sorry if it has been already posted


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Well done Pidcock!! We can claim him for MTB, he said he was born for it and therefore he belongs to us.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

AndrewHardtail said:


> The way Pidcock is riding in the Tour today I don’t think Ineos will want him spending very much time on MTB in the future


Good point. If he has GC aspirations someday, he might want to rethink bombing down mountain trails. But it seems if he's fit enough for stage wins and GC support, that fitness can make racing mountain bikes pretty fun.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Ptor said:


> I would prefer that WC XC courses have a longer finishing straight, allowing for authentic sprints. Cyclocross seems to have it figured out, designing courses that allow selection for technical prowess and fitness but if two riders come to the finish together there’s a fair way to battle it out down the stretch. That would mitigate (but not eliminate) the sort of conflicts seen at the end of last weeks race between Nino and MF.
> 
> And while I enjoyed Pidcock’s win at the TDF today as much as the next fan, the thought that he’ll ever contend for the overall GC win at a 3 week grand tour is naive (IMO). He climbed Alpe d’Huez several minutes slower than the yellow jersey group and they were largely not going all out. Pidcock won’t be able to climb with the front group of GC contenders throughout a 3 week stage race and he’s got a way to go to prove he can time trial well enough to contend.


It’s also naive to think that he must be weaker than them because he went slower. 

News flash: he was in the break all day, and they were being pulled along by teammates. 

He’s sitting in 8th place right now. Ahead of a guy who took 2nd at the Vuelta two years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> It’s also naive to think that he must be weaker than them because he went slower.
> 
> News flash: he was in the break all day, and they were being pulled along by teammates.
> 
> ...


Great ride today, but Pidcock will be one of the few riders capable of riding for Thomas and has a ton of work ahead. There won't be any more breakaways for him. Will be a good test of his 3 week ability.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> It’s also naive to think that he must be weaker than them because he went slower.
> 
> News flash: he was in the break all day, and they were being pulled along by teammates.
> 
> ...


Don't know the poster you originally quoted, but roadracing tactics aren't common knowledge to everyone. And quite frankly, to anyone who hasn't done it, it appears a little odd.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Ptor said:


> I would prefer that WC XC courses have a longer finishing straight, allowing for authentic sprints. Cyclocross seems to have it figured out, designing courses that allow selection for technical prowess and fitness but if two riders come to the finish together there’s a fair way to battle it out down the stretch. That would mitigate (but not eliminate) the sort of conflicts seen at the end of last weeks race between Nino and MF.
> 
> And while I enjoyed Pidcock’s win at the TDF today as much as the next fan, the thought that he’ll ever contend for the overall GC win at a 3 week grand tour is naive (IMO). He climbed Alpe d’Huez several minutes slower than the yellow jersey group and they were largely not going all out. Pidcock won’t be able to climb with the front group of GC contenders throughout a 3 week stage race and he’s got a way to go to prove he can time trial well enough to contend.


You’re going to eat your words. By 2024 he’ll be a GC contender


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

uintah said:


> So the UCI officials should apply rules from an entirely different sport? What am I missing here?


Nino fans are like Lewis Shamilton fans


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Brad said:


> You’re going to eat your words. By 2024 he’ll be a GC contender


We'll see. Quite possible but in the here and now, he has a legit shot at the World's RR this fall if he can handle the distance. Going hard at TDF for 3 weeks is certainly going to help.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> You’re going to eat your words. By 2024 he’ll be a GC contender


I’ll be happy to — they’re not meant to be bitter so it wouldn’t be hard on me. I’m a big fan of all the multi-discipline guys (Pidcock, MVdP, Van Aert, Ganna). And it’s true today’s slower time up the final climb than the yellow jersey group isn’t the best example of his less than top talent as a big mountain climber. Rather, take yesterday where he lost 10 minutes on just the final climb and he didn’t do any work to speak of all day as Jumbo-Visma did it all. And he hasn’t proven to be a standout time trialist, something a GC contender in grand tours must be. He is young and may yet develop those skills — hope he does and I will happily eat those words (but I doubt I’ll have to).


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ineos is paying Pidcock a ton of money to win races. Even Pinarello is developing a MTB for sometime before Paris. Let's aim for TP (not toilet paper) being a GC contender in 2025. And I love the way he races!!!


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> around 10min 27 sec in there is a tree in the middle of the course. The course widens around it then narrows as it turns to the right. This area I believe is the area where the sparking happened


A little late to the game, but short track isn't until tomorrow and I actually have a computer.

In the red bull replay, they go out of shot at 1:35:45 and come back at 1:36:05. That's 20 seconds only (also on the race clock), and they had to get back on their bikes.

In the preview video, they go out of the red bull shot (conveniently, for the numbers) at 10:00. They come back into the shot at 10:16. You can tell they come back at 10:16

by the signs marking the spectator crossing; and,
by assuming that the elapsed time cannot be greater than 20 seconds in the preview video, given the crash (and the speed of the course preview, for that matter).
So, 10:00 - 10:16 in the preview video is where the crash happened: 100 %.



Brad said:


> Pals of mine were standing close to where it happened. They hooked bars in a section where the trail narrowed from dual lane to single track.


Guess you could ask them, if they were there; would be interesting to know (at least until tomorrow afternoon). Only real scenarios I can see is MF went for the pass at 10:00 in the preview, as they went out of shot in the broadcast as Rob Warner suggested live, or at around 10:09 in the preview.

Where the crash happened was not a common place to be a spectator; unfortunately, for the world of social media and internet forum hacks (self-directed, though relatively new here - wth am I doing; don't tell my wife, she'll make fun of me to my friends). It's hard to see many passing opportunities in that section, but Nino himself made a pretty clever one in the little rooty uphill just before, so what do I know.

I do think it's a bit naive to suggest that Nino would rather crash out than hit the brakes if he got closed out. That was clearly an emotional race for both of them, but Nino has way too much history of mental fortitude, in my opinion. It's staggering that he can have rides like Snowshoe in 2019 and Nové Město this year where he looks good for the win, flats mid race and then rides back into to lead and finish top 3. Rides like those are why I enjoy Nino. Extreme mental toughness, pretty much the consummate champion. MF rides like a maniac and shoots pretty straight most of the time, so I like him too. And now watching them battle is soooo good. Just need more cameras so we can see moar.

Edit: would have posted the link to the Red Bull replay as the second source, but pretty sure the url is location dependent.


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## Dunnigan (9 mo ago)

Ptor said:


> I would prefer that WC XC courses have a longer finishing straight, allowing for authentic sprints. Cyclocross seems to have it figured out, designing courses that allow selection for technical prowess and fitness but if two riders come to the finish together there’s a fair way to battle it out down the stretch. That would mitigate (but not eliminate) the sort of conflicts seen at the end of last weeks race between Nino and MF.
> 
> And while I enjoyed Pidcock’s win at the TDF today as much as the next fan, the thought that he’ll ever contend for the overall GC win at a 3 week grand tour is naive (IMO). He climbed Alpe d’Huez several minutes slower than the yellow jersey group and they were largely not going all out. Pidcock won’t be able to climb with the front group of GC contenders throughout a 3 week stage race and he’s got a way to go to prove he can time trial well enough to contend.


I just rewatched the finish, and this course had a gradual right hand bend up to the finish. Braidot used it for his advantage, and you know the racers all knew that having position going into that finish was vital. Not enough straight away to play cat and mouse for position, and coming from behind a rider means taking the long way. So it’s easy to see why position was fought for ruthlessly earlier.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Finally got to see the replay of Stage 12 of the Tour today. If you have not gotten to see the video of Pidcock's descent off of the Col du Galibier, you need to find it (I saw it on the NBC Sports app, so I can't link it). The guy is incredibly talented in so many ways. Top level stuff. Additionally, at the risk of straying from topic, I've been watching the Tour since the middle 80's and today's stage was one of the best I've ever watched. Well worth the price of admission.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

ccm said:


> By that logic. If Schurter is to receive such a harsh penalty to set an example, then Flückiger should receive a harsh penalty for "_instigation_" to set an example to other riders to not cause collisions (from NHL Rule 56 regarding instigation:..._conduct in retaliation to a prior game (or season) incident; obvious retribution for a previous incident in the game or season...Automatic suspensions assessed to players who are deemed to be the instigator of an altercation in the final five (5) minutes of regulation time or at any time in overtime)_
> 
> The instigator is not necessarily the one who throws the first punch, it can be the one who causes the altercation with "_menacing attitude or posture; verbal instigation or threats"_
> 
> However_, "The Referee is provided very wide latitude in the penalties which he may impose under this Rule. This is done intentionally to enable him to differentiate between the obvious degrees of responsibility of the participants either for starting the fighting or persisting in continuing the fighting. The discretion provided should be exercised realistically "_


There can be penalty for "dangerous riding" if something like this exists in UCI rules, but race accident is one thing, physical violence (in term of cycling fights, this was real fight ) is another thing.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RexRacerX said:


> A little late to the game, but short track isn't until tomorrow and I actually have a computer.
> 
> In the red bull replay, they go out of shot at 1:35:45 and come back at 1:36:05. That's 20 seconds only (also on the race clock), and they had to get back on their bikes.
> 
> ...


They were not spectating there, they were walking back to the finish arena along the outside of the course. There are lots of little foot paths next to the course that are not obvious on the camera shots. Al they said they saw was MF going for an overtake and two colliding. One says MF took out NS the other two say the opposite. Perspective is important due to personal biases and that they were mostly looking ahead and only over the shoulder at the riders as the Swiss approached from behind. Did MF hook NS accidentally? Likely 
Could NS have leaned in toward MF to discourage an overtake? Likely , he’s known for intimidation tactics. None of my pals are apportioning blame I either direction because they did not see the whole thing. I’ll ask for a more definitive positioning but I doubt they will be able to describe in more detail as it’s a forest. 
The first answer I got was like “eeer ya there were some trees, and there was a grassy bit, the ground was damp and a bit loose , but ya it was there.”


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Finally got to see the replay of Stage 12 of the Tour today. If you have not gotten to see the video of Pidcock's descent off of the Col du Galibier, you need to find it (I saw it on the NBC Sports app, so I can't link it). The guy is incredibly talented in so many ways. Top level stuff. Additionally, at the risk of straying from topic, I've been watching the Tour since the middle 80's and today's stage was one of the best I've ever watched. Well worth the price of admission.


Tom Pidcock uploaded his ride to Strava.

He had a top speed of 62.7mph and Strava KOM for the main descents of the stage as well:









Alpe D’Huez 🥇 - Tom P.'s 168.4 km bike ride


Upload better late than never




www.strava.com


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

WR304 said:


> Tom Pidcock uploaded his ride to Strava.
> 
> He had a top speed of 62.7mph and Strava KOM for the main descents of the stage as well:
> 
> ...


What's Strava?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

uintah said:


> What's Strava?


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

One of the reasons I really like this kid is his brash honesty. He holds nothing back and apparently has never heard of PC. 










And if you've not seen it, you should watch his interview about Wout.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

jrob300 said:


> If you have not gotten to see the video of Pidcock's descent off of the Col du Galibier, you need to find it (I saw it on the NBC Sports app, so I can't link it).


Here's the clip of that epic descent. BTW, he KOM'd it.

I know... road bike nonsense. But they DO mention that he is MTB Olympic Champion!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> One of the reasons I really like this kid is his brash honesty. He holds nothing back and apparently has never heard of PC.


He's from Yorkshire - that's what they're known for; "calling a spade a spade".


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

What does "playing with our balls" mean? As an American that seems like a good thing....


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> One of the reasons I really like this kid is his brash honesty. He holds nothing back and apparently has never heard of PC.
> 
> View attachment 1991630
> 
> ...


Probably told his mum to hold dinner cos he’s off to ride his bike around France for a few weeks to catch a tan


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

cassieno said:


> What does "*playing with our balls*" mean? As an American that seems like a good thing....


there's a trade for that in Australia...... they are called "fitters"  they play with other people's Nuts......

XCC was well worth watching, alessandra keller put in a fantastic effort and it looks like Bec is going to be looking for a win Sunday


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> Here's the clip of that epic descent. BTW, he KOM'd it.
> 
> I know... road bike nonsense. But they DO mention that he is MTB XC World Champion!


He’s actually the Olympic gold medalist, not the World Champion. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

celswick said:


> He’s actually the Olympic gold medalist, not the World Champion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Under 23 and e-mtb!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Adapted for the thinner atmosphere


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)




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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> View attachment 1991705


We may need to get Rob Warner to translate that. 👆


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

wrong thread


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## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

celswick said:


> He’s actually the Olympic gold medalist, not the World Champion.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Think they were referring to cyclocross.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

RS VR6 said:


> View attachment 1991705





jrob300 said:


> We may need to get Rob Warner to translate that. 👆


As a Brazilian with average comprehension of English, I must confess I understood very little of that.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

Reports and posts that quote those reported posts are rapidly sending this thread to the bin. My one and only warning, keep it rated PG and free of sexist comments. Timeouts and binning are a distinct possibility if this theme continues.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Seriously? Is this high school? I did not see any horrendous comments but perhaps I missed it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

trmn8er said:


> Seriously? Is this high school? I did not see any horrendous comments but perhaps I missed it?


I believe they were removed. I'm sure that there are some who may have found them offensive.


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## life behind bars (May 24, 2014)

trmn8er said:


> Seriously? Is this high school? I did not see any horrendous comments but perhaps I missed it?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk




Perhaps.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

No xco for Jenny today.


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## csteven71 (Jan 15, 2009)

Excited to watch the races today. Jenny isn’t racing due to a cold.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

csteven71 said:


> Excited to watch the races today. Jenny isn’t racing due to a cold.


I thought she looked a bit off on Friday. Pity about that becssue she had a good opportunity to take some points today.
Becca had a race from hell. Punctures on consecutive laps in the same place. Looks like her tyre pressures weee set too low and she pinch flatted off the big drop .
Emily had a great ride , she’s coming back into form after 4 years in the doldrums. Super happy for her. 
super stoked for Anne taking the win. She targeted this race in January already. So happy to see her hit the bullseye


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Fluckiger DNS for a cold as well


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

A whole lot of COVID going around this weekend. Wonder how it will effect Attendance at the North American rounds


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Hatherly and Avancini nursing chest infections


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

2nd gift in a row for Braidot, but like Rob said, you have to be in position to capitalize from other mistakes


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Raikzz said:


> 2nd gift in a row for Braidot, but like Rob said, you have to be in position to capitalize from other mistakes


What happened to Vlad Dascalu after all? On the broadcast, both Rob and Bart were clueless.


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

Rear wheel bent or something like that. He explained in post race interview.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

He said he had problems with shifting and his rear tire was rubbing the frame


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

AndrewHardtail said:


> He said he had problems with shifting and his rear tire was rubbing the frame


That sounds like a broken frame to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

He hit a rock and i suspect it bent the hanger and displaced the thru axle nut on the other side which displace the wheel into the chainstay so he had tyre rub. Sounds like a momentary lapse in concentration as Bart explained and he made a mistake. Braidot made no mistakes and brought it home first. That’s what wins races


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Heartbreaking for Vlad...I was actually cheering for him since this is almost like a home race for him. Also Becca with a flat very early. But this is racing. 

Did anybody notice that when David Valero was leading he was actually slowing the pace and Nino was coming back to them?


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Do you think Rebecca's mechanic figured out he should up the pressure by the 2nd flat tire?


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm picking the riders dictate the tyre pressure? Hard to put the blame solely on the equipment on a course like that, I'm picking line choice is critical over those rocky sections.

Curious though, how many spare wheels does a team have in the tech zone? At what point does the mechanic have to change a tyre/boot and tube a tyre? 

Definitely a course for inserts. The new Aspen seems to be an improvement generally. Snowshoe in two weeks will be a good test for the tyre set ups.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Fluekinger should have focused on taking out Luca Braidot this time. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

mail_liam said:


> I'm picking the riders dictate the tyre pressure? Hard to put the blame solely on the equipment on a course like that, I'm picking line choice is critical over those rocky sections.
> 
> Curious though, how many spare wheels does a team have in the tech zone? At what point does the mechanic have to change a tyre/boot and tube a tyre?
> 
> Definitely a course for inserts. The new Aspen seems to be an improvement generally. Snowshoe in two weeks will be a good test for the tyre set ups.


Some picking their own preferences while others doesnt even know how to tight their helmets!


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

I did notice that Rob thought it odd that Bec did not carry CO2. I guess it makes more sense to run 3/4 of the course, pushing a bike... twice... than to carry a few grams worth of CO2 and plugs.


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> That sounds like a broken frame to me.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That was my thought - if the wheel was detached he wouldn't have gotten far, but a broken seatstay may have been just stable enough to ride but extremely annoying and floppy!


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## Eric Marshall (Nov 28, 2012)

mail_liam said:


> The new Aspen seems to be an improvement generally. Snowshoe in two weeks will be a good test for the tyre set ups.


Can somebody point me to a spy picture of the new Aspen?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Is not secret! Check for ninos photos.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

I managed to avoid all spoilers before watching both races for once! There seemed to be a lot of either ill or non starting high profile riders this week, particularly in the women’s race. 

Jolanda Neff, Loana Lecomte and Jenny Rissveds were just a few of the non starters.

The men’s race kept me guessing all the way to the finish. Luca Braidot winning back to back World Cups was quite a surprise. On the first lap it looked like Victor Koretsky was going to destroy the field, in the same way that Anne Terpstra did in the women’s race, only he then faded massively and finished outside the top 10! 

Vlad Dascalu isn’t having much luck. He was the one who broke a saddle a few rounds ago, got outsprinted at the very end by Tom Pidcock in one round then with a clear gap at Vallnord had another mechanical.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Sure heard a lot of euphemisms for COVID from Rob and Bart - I think my favorite was "little cold" or possibly "chest infection like his teammate." I'm guessing, although someone can correct me if I'm wrong, that riders might be trying to avoid an official COVID label so as to get out of any UCI restrictions/negative test requirements before the next race.

Terpstra rode the perfect race - I thought she'd take the win after she said (after short track on Fri) that the course really suits her and that altitude hasn't been a big problem for her. She's had a great season and clearly had the fitness for a sustained push - I think she would've taken the win even if McConnell hadn't had so many technical issues. I was expecting Keller to be top 5 as well, although top 10 is still extremely respectable. I was also impressed that Batty made it back into the top 10, although I was less impressed with Bart's sexist comment about her poor performance in recent years being due to her "social media focus" and "good looks."

Just a matter of time before Dascalu takes the win. Luca Braidot looked so emotional and happy, though, that I can't help being glad he won instead (I didn't know much about him and therefore wasn't really rooting for him).


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

roth88 said:


> Terpstra rode the perfect race


Terpstra rode the perfect boring race.
Fixed.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

jrob300 said:


> I did notice that Rob thought it odd that Bec did not carry CO2. I guess it makes more sense to run 3/4 of the course, pushing a bike... twice... than to carry a few grams worth of CO2 and plugs.


I completely agree that it would make far more sense to carry CO2 than to take chances on particularly rocky courses. Bec lost a zillion places with those long runs.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Is someone still carrying one?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Terpstra rode the perfect boring race.
> Fixed.


What exactly do you want from this scenario? Do you want Terpstra to slow down to let other riders catch up and make it closer? Do you want the other riders to magically perform beyond their abilities on that day to catch up to the lead? It's a truism to say that some races have tighter action for the top spot, while other races don't. In those races where the top spot isn't in doubt, there are always other story lines further down the list to be engaged with.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

WR304 said:


> Luca Braidot winning back to back World Cups was quite a surprise.


Watching Braidot channel his inner Kerschbaumer 2018 during the last two rounds has been pretty funny. He's been riding really well. I will set a reminder on my calendar for 2026 to watch for the next mini-streak of dominance in the altitude rounds of the world cup by an Italian rider.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Circlip said:


> What exactly do you want from this scenario? Do you want Terpstra to slow down to let other riders catch up and make it closer? Do you want the other riders to magically perform beyond their abilities on that day to catch up to the lead? It's a truism to say that some races have tighter action for the top spot, while other races don't. In those races where the top spot isn't in doubt, there are always other story lines further down the list to be engaged with.


Still it was quite boring(imo).


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I didn't think the race was boring this time, even with a clear leader, because the conditions made it a sketchier day. I was wondering if anyone would go down with heat exhaustion. Definitely not as exciting as the women's race at Petropolis, though.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Finally got a chance to watch both races. I though both were really good. But I really like the course. It looked like it had a good mixture of everything on it.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I've seen a few Supercaliber break on the rear triangle. UCI races at Arkansas last year saw a few of those. I saw another break two weeks ago.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Have they confirmed a frame break anywhere? I haven't seen comment, to be honest I thought it sounded like a broken spoke. There was definitely a racket coming from his bike.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Circlip said:


> Watching Braidot channel his inner Kerschbaumer 2018 during the last two rounds has been pretty funny. He's been riding really well. I will set a reminder on my calendar for 2026 to watch for the next mini-streak of dominance in the altitude rounds of the world cup by an Italian rider.


Kerschbaumer is actually racing a lot better this year. Apparently he dropped his coach and went back to doing things on his own a la 2018.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

I've broken a frame at the chain stay (a Trek too believe it or not) and at first all I noticed was the gears skipping all over. At first I thought it was the derailleur, but then saw this. But was able to ride 5 hilly km by keeping the chain line straight as possible in a middle cog (I then splinted it with a u lock and duct tape to ride 10km home)

When Vlad is climbing the wall, you can see he is in a middle cog at that point, and you can see a wobbly rear wheel when he descends the grassy ski slope.

I again can't believe what great PR training the World Cup pros must have to not say something like "F***ing frame broke" to the first person that asked.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Have they confirmed a frame break anywhere? I haven't seen comment, to be honest I thought it sounded like a broken spoke. There was definitely a racket coming from his bike.


No one racing or working for Trek is going to admit the frame broke


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

god damnit, wrong thread


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

roth88 said:


> I was also impressed that Batty made it back into the top 10, although I was less impressed with Bart's sexist comment about her poor performance in recent years being due to her "social media focus" and "good looks."


I wasn't watching race so I don't know how this comment really came out, but sexist or not, I would say he's actually pretty damn right. With a bit more time and focus on training and a bit less time on instagram, I'm pretty sure she would do whole lot better. At least in racing, but when it comes to money and surviving, I'm pretty sure she went the right way, and on the end, it's really about money and being able to earn enough to live normally.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I didn't find it sexist, although a bit aggressive comment i guess, but it is the truth. She spend more time as an influencer than as a cyclist and there isn't any wrong with it! IMO it's a better way to have a good salary compared to a pro women cyclist salary. It's nice to see her back though!!


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

celswick said:


> Fluekinger should have focused on taking out Luca Braidot this time.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hard to do when you're a DNS for the day.


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

Noticed a couple small things from the last race...

I saw when Koretzky (sp) was dropping back while Bart and Rob were trying to figure out if he had a mechanical, he was running wide on a turn and it looked like he was either putting something in or taking something out of his jersey. The first time I thought he was stuffing ice in there but it wasn't in the tech zone. I skipped back and watched again and looked like maybe taking of his HRM strap. I dunno. 

The other thing I noticed was Nino had those Sram brake levers that have the master cylinder parallel with the bars, makes way more sense with the cable mess our bikes have become. I think they were spotted a while back on Lars' bike.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

ccm said:


> No one racing or working for Trek is going to admit the frame broke


Just the same way a MotoGP bike will only fail due to an “electrical” problem. Even if there’s smoke pouring out.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

Great races. Happy for Braidot—you make your own luck. 

I really like this course—makes me want to hop on my bike and go riding, which I will. :^)


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

TwincamRob said:


> Noticed a couple small things from the last race...
> 
> I saw when Koretzky (sp) was dropping back while Bart and Rob were trying to figure out if he had a mechanical, he was running wide on a turn and it looked like he was either putting something in or taking something out of his jersey. The first time I thought he was stuffing ice in there but it wasn't in the tech zone. I skipped back and watched again and looked like maybe taking of his HRM strap. I dunno.


Coincidentally, at Lenzerheide, Jolanda was coming through the feed zone and dumped hers. Bart said something like: sometimes, they start slipping or get loose and it's very annoying. maybe that happened?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I once heard someone saying that Nino does not race with a HRM because he can't breath right. How tight does the chest strap have to be for that? Why not use a wrist based HRM or a WHOOP? I don't now if WHOOP transmits data but for me, racing with a wrist HRM lets me feel a bit more confortable than using a chest strap.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

primoz said:


> I wasn't watching race so I don't know how this comment really came out, but sexist or not, I would say he's actually pretty damn right. With a bit more time and focus on training and a bit less time on instagram, I'm pretty sure she would do whole lot better. At least in racing, but when it comes to money and surviving, I'm pretty sure she went the right way, and on the end, it's really about money and being able to earn enough to live normally.


I actually think he could be right that she focused more on social media (she has stated that she loves being an ambassador for the sport and by all accounts, she's a good one), but the comment on her looks specifically was sexist and completely unnecessary. In my personal opinion, though, I suspect that Batty's issue is more due to being coached by her husband. She's stuck with him for a long time (in that role) and it doesn't seem to be working. When Bec switched coaches away from her own husband this year, she saw instant success. I wonder if that would work for Batty too.


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Is it sexist to say a woman is pretty?!!

Its quite different compared to Rebecca. Batty had some great results in the past, while Rebecca not. So i guess her coach knows how to build her in top again.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> I once heard someone saying that Nino does not race with a HRM because he can't breath right. How tight does the chest strap have to be for that? Why not use a wrist based HRM or a WHOOP? I don't now if WHOOP transmits data but for me, racing with a wrist HRM lets me feel a bit more confortable than using a chest strap.


Wrist is not accurate at all especially when racing cause of vibration etc, but a strap on the arm under the shoulder like polar works great. I'm using it for some years now because i also don't like the chest pressure of a conventional belt.
Whoop is also accurate on the upper arm.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Heartbreaking for Vlad...I was actually cheering for him since this is almost like a home race for him. Also Becca with a flat very early. But this is racing.
> 
> Did anybody notice that when David Valero was leading he was actually slowing the pace and Nino was coming back to them?


yes I did hence Dascalu nailed it.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> I didn't find it sexist, although a bit aggressive comment i guess, but it is the truth. She spend more time as an influencer than as a cyclist and there isn't any wrong with it! IMO it's a better way to have a good salary compared to a pro women cyclist salary. It's nice to see her back though!!


batty and her hubby have been spending a lot if their time getting their race team up and running. Sponsors want exposure so when the results dry up then one has to resort to be ing seen on social media. Use what you have. Yea she’s a darn good looking woman and there’s no harm in using that to her advantage. I didn’t read negativity into Bart’s comments as he said in rather matter of factin his broken englutch.
Glad to see Emily get a great result again. She was targeting this years world champs so she appears to be on target


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cycloholic said:


> Wrist is not accurate at all especially when racing cause of vibration etc, but a strap on the arm under the shoulder like polar works great. I'm using it for some years now because i also don't like the chest pressure of a conventional belt.
> Whoop is also accurate on the upper arm.


I use a Garmin Fenix on my wrist and I do compare the HR it reads vs. what a chest strap reads. Yes, there is a difference, but not by many beats. Maybe 4 or 5 beats at the most when going to the top and bottom end. But it also depends on what I'm doing. For example, if I'm going for a long road ride keeping it at Endurance/Tempo I'll only wear the watch while keeping the heart a power low. But whenever I'm doing specific intensity work, I do wear the chest strap. Interestingly, whenever I go for running ( I try to do at least 12miles/20km per week), I alternate between chest and wrist and almost always I get the same HR at the same pace.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> I actually think he could be right that she focused more on social media (she has stated that she loves being an ambassador for the sport and by all accounts, she's a good one), but the comment on her looks specifically was sexist and completely unnecessary. In my personal opinion, though, I suspect that Batty's issue is more due to being coached by her husband. She's stuck with him for a long time (in that role) and it doesn't seem to be working. When Bec switched coaches away from her own husband this year, she saw instant success. I wonder if that would work for Batty too.


I know first hand the challenges and benifits of coaching your spouse!

Both Bec and Emily and switched from the spouse (or former spouse) several times for coaches. In Emily's case she came back to working with her husband because it was sucessful.

It is easy to forget that Emily is 34. That isn't old but she has been racing full-time size 2004. The norm is for people to be at the tail end of their career when they have been racing that long. Every rider has a peak, a level they will never get back to again.

Emily has made some significant progress this season. And contray to what people think, Emily is actually one of the most focused single purpose athletes out there. The image she projects is different than reality.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> I know first hand the challenges and benifits of coaching your spouse!
> 
> Both Bec and Emily and switched from the spouse (or former spouse) several times for coaches. In Emily's case she came back to working with her husband because it was sucessful.
> 
> It is easy to forget that Emily is 34. That isn't old but she has been racing full-time size 2004. The norm is for people to be at the tail end of their career when they have been racing that long. Every rider has a peak, a level they will never get back to again.


Emily also experimented with some funky diet that didn’t work out so well for her and this was more a cause fo her drop in form than being coached by her hubby.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> I use a Garmin Fenix on my wrist and I do compare the HR it reads vs. what a chest strap reads. Yes, there is a difference, but not by many beats. Maybe 4 or 5 beats at the most when going to the top and bottom end. But it also depends on what I'm doing. For example, if I'm going for a long road ride keeping it at Endurance/Tempo I'll only wear the watch while keeping the heart a power low. But whenever I'm doing specific intensity work, I do wear the chest strap. Interestingly, whenever I go for running ( I try to do at least 12miles/20km per week), I alternate between chest and wrist and almost always I get the same HR at the same pace.


For running I don’t like the chest strap, it feels too restrictive.
On the bike I don’t notice it


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> Emily also experimented with some funky diet that didn’t work out so well for her and this was more a cause fo her drop in form than being coached by her hubby.


Actually she didn't. She posted a video talking about the diet but did the diet for about a week before stopping.

Something did go wrong with her training, and that is the norm. Most athletes will have a period where for some reason their training isn't working. Some fix it in a couple of months, some in a couple of years, others never.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Actually she didn't. She posted a video talking about the diet but did the diet for about a week before stopping.
> 
> Something did go wrong with her training, and that is the norm. Most athletes will have a period where for some reason their training isn't working. Some fix it in a couple of months, some in a couple of years, others never.


Ah so the diet was coincidental. The danger of changing too many things at once is you don’t know which rabbit hole is the wrong one


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

cycloholic said:


> Is it sexist to say a woman is pretty?!!
> 
> Its quite different compared to Rebecca. Batty had some great results in the past, while Rebecca not. So i guess her coach knows how to build her in top again.


Yes. This was a professional context and commenting on Batty's looks (and implying that they were important to the size of her social media following, rather than crediting her business acumen) was sexist. Nino Schurter has posted more on Instagram than Batty, has twice as many followers, and didn't get any comments from Bart about "being too focused on social media." If you want an example from a male rider who hasn't achieved Nino levels of success, look at Henrique Avancini - he has a similar number of posts as Batty and more followers, but his lack of recent success was not attributed to his social media focus.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Yes. This was a professional context and commenting on Batty's looks (and implying that they were important to the size of her social media following, rather than crediting her business acumen) was sexist. Nino Schurter has posted more on Instagram than Batty, has twice as many followers, and didn't get any comments from Bart about "being too focused on social media." If you want an example from a male rider who hasn't achieved Nino levels of success, look at Henrique Avancini - he has a similar number of posts as Batty and more followers, but his lack of recent success was not attributed to his social media focus.


Well said!


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

roth88 said:


> Yes. This was a professional context and commenting on Batty's looks (and implying that they were important to the size of her social media following, rather than crediting her business acumen) was sexist. Nino Schurter has posted more on Instagram than Batty, has twice as many followers, and didn't get any comments from Bart about "being too focused on social media." If you want an example from a male rider who hasn't achieved Nino levels of success, look at Henrique Avancini - he has a similar number of posts as Batty and more followers, but his lack of recent success was not attributed to his social media focus.





LMN said:


> Well said!


Lol, if you guys think that just because it's 2022 that everyone started magically divorcing themselves from thousands of years of programming. Right or wrong, Emily Batty attracts a contingent of followers that I pretty much guarantee are not interested in Nino Shurter, no matter how good a rider he is, because it has little to do with mountain biking. Take a stroll through YouTube videos found under a search by name and you will see what I mean. Unfortunately this is part of women's sports no matter how inappropriate it is or how much we wish it would go away. We had a bout of it in this thread for a bit. Some were offended and some were not. Don't assume that everyone else has your standards or that somehow because they are your standards (or some subset of society) that they are correct. Are they COC compliant??? That's a different question.

Bart called it as he saw it, and like it or not, from a small sample of evidence I would say he was pretty close in his summation. Whether he should have said it on broadcast is another discussion.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> Lol, if you guys think that just because it's 2022 that everyone started magically divorcing themselves from thousands of years of programming. Right or wrong, Emily Batty attracts a contingent of followers that I pretty much guarantee are not interested in Nino Shurter, no matter how good a rider he is, because it has little to do with mountain biking. Take a stroll through YouTube videos found under a search by name and you will see what I mean. Unfortunately this is part of women's sports no matter how inappropriate it is or how much we wish it would go away. We had a bout of it in this thread for a bit. Some were offended and some were not. Don't assume that everyone else has your standards or that somehow because they are your standards (or some subset of society) that they are correct. Are they COC compliant??? That's a different question.
> 
> Bart called it as he saw it, and like it or not, from a small sample of evidence I would say he was pretty close in his summation. Whether he should have said it on broadcast is another discussion.


100% agree. The fallacy is that we’re conditioned to believe it’s only men viewing women as sex objects.
About 15 years I received a call from an ad agency to participate in a commercial for an energy drink that was sponsoring the cape epic.
“We’re looking for male athletes. Anyway I go to the Casting and get role . First day On set we get introduced to the main character in the commercial….meet Prince Charmings twin brother….it was hysterical. Myself and the two other guys it turns out we’re to be his officers in a war scene dragging the injured out of a war zone.
Well naturally he was chosen because the target audience was the wives of participants in the cape epic because apparently they’re the ones who purchase their husbands needs LOL.
I remind you the casting panel was all single women, well groomed , high salaried individuals who you’d think would think differently of the role of women at home. Their market research showed the average woman still wants to see a tall muscular stud muffin in ads that appeal to them.
todau 15 years later and my company is developing market positioning and there’s focus groups everywhere. Market surveys aren’t showing the world to have moved on much despite all the protesting to the contrary. What we see is that woman have much more optionality today but they most still chose their traditional role when the time comes to start a family. Many claim they would prefer part time work like modeling!! Many still want to see a man talking to them about technical products because they trust mens technical ability. There are women who don’t but they’re not in the majority.

the way I interpreted Bart’s comments was that they came from Emily herself. She’s an ambassador for many brands, does part time modelling and uses her social media to promote her sponsors. All I understood was that she did what she needed to do to get her team notices and on the radar of sponsors. So she spent a lot of time doing that and that affected her training and racing. That’s what a professional does. Yolanda does it, Loana does it with a huge smile. They all have to sell their sponsors products one way or another


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

carlostruco said:


> I once heard someone saying that Nino does not race with a HRM because he can't breath right. How tight does the chest strap have to be for that? Why not use a wrist based HRM or a WHOOP? I don't now if WHOOP transmits data but for me, racing with a wrist HRM lets me feel a bit more confortable than using a chest strap.


I highly doubt he has any interest or use in HR data during XCO racing. Many of the racers don't even have Power Meters on their race bikes.

I use optical HR now on the trainer for convenience. I'm tempted to make something work (tape the sensor to my upper arm under my jersey) for racing purely for data analysis, never for pacing.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Hard to do when you're a DNS for the day.


Yeah, I hadn’t watched the replay yet when I set the world on fire with my humor. Should have done a little research first. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

Making a social media post every day doesn't take enough time to take away from training and preparation for mountain bike racing. How long do people really think it takes to post something on instagram once they get used to doing it? Emily Batt's popularity may be somewhat related to her social media, but I highly doubt her race results are related. I doubt anything like that would ever be said about a racer on the men's side.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I should probably start blaming social media for my failure to reach full self-actualization.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

HRM. Sort of surprised any of them bother with it during the race. I don't see how it could be useful.

Power meters outside the top 10 are probably useful. However, at somepoint you just respond to the race and it doesn't matter what your PM says.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cassieno said:


> HRM. Sort of surprised any of them bother with it during the race. I don't see how it could be useful.
> 
> Power meters outside the top 10 are probably useful. However, at somepoint you just respond to the race and it doesn't matter what your PM says.


It is used more for retrospective analysis and for setting and comfirming training zone.

Lets say you normally race at average of 178 but at a particular race, which is sub-par, you average on 165. That is a good indication that you hadn't recovered going into that race. Or, for example, if your average HR drops significantly in the later part of the race then fueling was probably an issue.

It is also useful in the race, watching that HR can help you pace yourself a bit. And in heat at altitude pacing is pretty critical.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Apparently someone deleted my post that i was saying: "Im tired of political correctness"
😂 😂 😂


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

cycloholic said:


> Wrist is not accurate at all especially when racing cause of vibration etc, but a strap on the arm under the shoulder like polar works great. I'm using it for some years now because i also don't like the chest pressure of a conventional belt.
> Whoop is also accurate on the upper arm.


No optical sensor is accurate enough to be useful for training. Like it or not, optical sensor's accuracy is still +/-10-15%, which is really useless for training, as +/-10-15% means it can easily show you are in Z3 while you are in reality in Z5 or vice versa. I'm not 100% sure, but I would say Polar's sensor that gets attached to upper arm is optical, isn't it? 
As for chest pressure of conventional belt, which is actually only accurate enough way to use HRMs for training, it depends on belt. Current Polar staprs have some extra rubber on them, so they don't slip even if not really tight. For bike I never had issues anyway, but with older straps I had some issues with straps slipping down when running or skiing, so I needed them to be tighter. With current strap from Polar, there's no need for super tight, and at least for me, I don't even feel I have it on. It might be, that I somehow got used to it, as there's not a single training or race since 1989 that I would made without it.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

primoz said:


> No optical sensor is accurate enough to be useful for training. Like it or not, optical sensor's accuracy is still +/-10-15%, which is really useless for training, as +/-10-15% means it can easily show you are in Z3 while you are in reality in Z5 or vice versa. I'm not 100% sure, but I would say Polar's sensor that gets attached to upper arm is optical, isn't it?
> As for chest pressure of conventional belt, which is actually only accurate enough way to use HRMs for training, it depends on belt. Current Polar staprs have some extra rubber on them, so they don't slip even if not really tight. For bike I never had issues anyway, but with older straps I had some issues with straps slipping down when running or skiing, so I needed them to be tighter. With current strap from Polar, there's no need for super tight, and at least for me, I don't even feel I have it on. It might be, that I somehow got used to it, as there's not a single training or race since 1989 that I would made without it.


When i was using whoop on my wrist i was having really wrong data, like max pulses 240 etc! I talked with them and they say it's a usual thing and the solution is to have it upper on your arm(i guess it interfere with wrist bone or something). At that time i started using also the polar sensor, it is optical yes, i haven't noticed anything wrong but i have never had like two sensors at the same time to compare. What i noticed is sometimes it is a little bit slow. I can check it with double sensors one of those days!

I get that in fast search, haven't read it thoroughly.








Validation of Polar OH1 optical heart rate sensor for moderate and high intensity physical activities


Optical measurement techniques and recent advances in wearable technology have made heart rate (HR) sensing simpler and more affordable.The Polar OH1 is an arm worn optical heart rate monitor. The objectives of this study are two-fold; 1) to validate ...




www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

I'll test my Wahoo Tickr Fit against my Garmin HRM Run tomorrow and see how they track.



primoz said:


> No optical sensor is accurate enough to be useful for training. Like it or not, optical sensor's accuracy is still +/-10-15%, which is really useless for training, as +/-10-15% means it can easily show you are in Z3 while you are in reality in Z5 or vice versa. I'm not 100% sure, but I would say Polar's sensor that gets attached to upper arm is optical, isn't it?
> As for chest pressure of conventional belt, which is actually only accurate enough way to use HRMs for training, it depends on belt. Current Polar staprs have some extra rubber on them, so they don't slip even if not really tight. For bike I never had issues anyway, but with older straps I had some issues with straps slipping down when running or skiing, so I needed them to be tighter. With current strap from Polar, there's no need for super tight, and at least for me, I don't even feel I have it on. It might be, that I somehow got used to it, as there's not a single training or race since 1989 that I would made without it.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

primoz said:


> No optical sensor is accurate enough to be useful for training. Like it or not, optical sensor's accuracy is still +/-10-15%, which is really useless for training, as +/-10-15% means it can easily show you are in Z3 while you are in reality in Z5 or vice versa. I'm not 100% sure, but I would say Polar's sensor that gets attached to upper arm is optical, isn't it?
> As for chest pressure of conventional belt, which is actually only accurate enough way to use HRMs for training, it depends on belt. Current Polar staprs have some extra rubber on them, so they don't slip even if not really tight. For bike I never had issues anyway, but with older straps I had some issues with straps slipping down when running or skiing, so I needed them to be tighter. With current strap from Polar, there's no need for super tight, and at least for me, I don't even feel I have it on. It might be, that I somehow got used to it, as there's not a single training or race since 1989 that I would made without it.


Not that this is the thread for it, or am I likely to change your mind, but I would recommend checking out DC Rainmaker. He's reviewed a huge number of the major HRM brands Optical and chest. Optical has come an enormous way since it was first introduced.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Victor Koretzky will race European and World Champs.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

mail_liam said:


> Not that this is the thread for it, or am I likely to change your mind, but I would recommend checking out DC Rainmaker. He's reviewed a huge number of the major HRM brands Optical and chest. Optical has come an enormous way since it was first introduced.


i do read his reviews quite often and like his methodology of testing.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

NordieBoy said:


> I'll test my Wahoo Tickr Fit against my Garmin HRM Run tomorrow and see how they track.


Sometimes I'll wear my Wahoo chest strap when running to feed the HR the my Fenix. I do that on specific high intensity runs.


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## ligniteminer (May 10, 2012)

My Garmin fenix is usually within a few BPM of my tickr, but it reacts slower than the tickr. They are close enough that I stopped using my tickr.

The value in HR data is as LMN noted, good for post race information. Last weekend's XCO my HR was almost 12 bpm below average for a race. I knew I screwed during my warm up based on power data, but average HR confirmed I was way over trained going into the race despite having an NP right along the normal of other races.

Based on that I am taking an easy week and hoping this weekend's race I am fresher. I was hoping to push the training block one more week through this race, but when my HR was that far off what I expected to see, I knew I needed the recovery time.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Wow. Given Luca Braidot’s recent results, I didn’t see this one coming. Congrats to Kerschbaumer!


__
http://instagr.am/p/CgXaXmls_xg/


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Carioca_XC said:


> Wow. Given Luca Braidot’s recent results, I dind see this one coming.
> 
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CgXaXmls_xg/


Agreed. That saved a pretty mundane season for kirshbaumer. I spelled that wrong I’m sure.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Agreed. That saved a pretty mundane season for kirshbaumer. I spelled that wrong I’m sure.


I was editing my post, adding “Congrats to Kersh…” How do you spell that? 
It took me a while to look it up. 😅


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I was too lazy to look it up.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Impressive ride from Keegan! The bump in volume hasn't hampered his XCO abilities it appears. Pretty big result to run away with it from Blevins, who has been on the upswing.

Almost wish Keegan would race Snowshoe now. Though with Leadville and his low ranking it wouldn't be worth it.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

mail_liam said:


> Impressive ride from Keegan! The bump in volume hasn't hampered his XCO abilities it appears. Pretty big result to run away with it from Blevins, who has been on the upswing.
> 
> Almost wish Keegan would race Snowshoe now. Though with Leadville and his low ranking it wouldn't be worth it.


The whole day was great! KC did well, but Blunk just rode away from her. Swenson just crushed it. Bummer of a crash in the last few hundred meters for Paton... I was a little too far up the road to see it, but I guess he was on the ground for a minute.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Is Blunk racing WCs?


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

This is interesting for Canadians




__





Canadian Cyclist no-mountain-bikers-at-the-commonwealth-games-a-bad-look-for-canada


Canadian Cyclist Online. The source for Canadian cycling news and information including mountain bike and road bike tours, adventure biking features, complete national & international competition coverage, bike tests, product reviews, Buyer's Guide, Canadian Calendar of events and much more..



canadiancyclist.com


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Wales aren't bothering to send any XC racers the short trip across the Severn to Birmingham. Which seems poor - especially from a country that has a whole network of trails/ bike parks. One concludes it's the gravity scene most are interested in.

Saying that, Evie will be riding for England as part of her comeback from injury, as opposed to the World Cups across the pond - which makes sense.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Carioca_XC said:


> Wow. Given Luca Braidot’s recent results, I didn’t see this one coming. Congrats to Kerschbaumer!
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CgXaXmls_xg/


Apparently, Luca had some kind of mechanical. 









Gerhard Kerschbaumer gana el duelo a Luca Braidot y vuelve a ser campeón de Italia


Luca Braidot era el favorito indiscutible, pero un problema mecánico truncó sus opciones. Gerhard Kerschbaumer aprovechó su oportunidad. Martina Berta arrasó en féminas




esmtb.com


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> Wales aren't bothering to send any XC racers the short trip across the Severn to Birmingham. Which seems poor - especially from a country that has a whole network of trails/ bike parks. One concludes it's the gravity scene most are interested in.
> 
> Saying that, Evie will be riding for England as part of her comeback from injury, as opposed to the World Cups across the pond - which makes sense.


I was wondering about this the other day. On the road side the Commonwealth Nations are pretty strong. Wales for example has Thomas, Rowe, Doull, etc.

On the MTB side, there is not a terrifically deep field. Without Pidcock the drop off after the three Kiwi's is reasonable. Of course there are plenty of super fast U23 riders etc that could show up and win if they were allowed.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

mail_liam said:


> I was wondering about this the other day. On the road side the Commonwealth Nations are pretty strong. Wales for example has Thomas, Rowe, Doull, etc.
> 
> On the MTB side, there is not a terrifically deep field. Without Pidcock the drop off after the three Kiwi's is reasonable. Of course there are plenty of super fast U23 riders etc that could show up and win if they were allowed.


Don't forget Alan Hatherly, he will make it harder for the kiwis...


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

nya said:


> Don't forget Alan Hatherly, he will make it harder for the kiwis...


Of course! Forgot about South Africa!

He's in great form too. I'd pick Gaze and he to Duke it out for the win. Cooper will depend on how well his training goes with the hand and how hampered he is. Might be ripping it from some rest though.

Ben Oliver will go well with being able to start with the leaders.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Joe Handlebar said:


> Bummer of a crash in the last few hundred meters for Paton... I was a little too far up the road to see it, but I guess he was on the ground for a minute.


He had a story up on his Insta about it, sounds like his legs just locked up completely, and he just went OTB. Pretty strange crash though.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Emily Batty Canadian XCO champ 22/23 ladies elite


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Mathias with a season update on his website. 









Update nach intensiver Zeit | Mathias Flückiger


Mountainbiken ist für mich weit mehr als nur Sport und Beruf. Mountainbiken bedeutet für mich Passion und Perfektion. Biken ist für mich eine Art Kunst: Ich bin ständig auf der Suche nach dem perfekten Bike, dem optimalen Setup, neuen technischen Errungenschaften und dem Gefühl der Freiheit und...




mathiasflueckiger.ch


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

It makes sense. I really wish they had had cameras on that section of course. Last year, I think Nino did two sketchy - and filmed passes - and I think Mathias backed away on those (need to rewatch because my memory is a little shaky). I can only assume Mathias said "never again" after that. Leading into the woods it was bound to get spicy. A game of chicken that they both refused to back down from and ultimately both lost because of it.

I think Mathias had it in the sprint though and could have waited (but I am one person on the internet and not a professional racer who has trained a decade + to figure out how to win.

Covid has been ripping through the Pro's this year. Hope to see him back on form for the World Cups.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Is Blunk racing WCs?


Some of them. She wasn't selected for the Life Time Grand Prix so she might do the next to rounds here in North America.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Her social media presence must not have been large enough.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/racing-rumours-5-possible-changes-for-the-2023-world-cup-season.html


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Exmuhle said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/racing-rumours-5-possible-changes-for-the-2023-world-cup-season.html


$20k registration fee instead of $3k. Sounds reasonable. 🤔


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I don't like the idea of cutting the size of the field down to 30. It will definitely disadvantage privateers, anyone recovering from injury, women coming back from maternity leave, and probably more groups I'm not thinking of. It also goes without saying that losing Rob's commentary will really suck. He and Bart have good chemistry and depth of knowledge that you can't easily replace.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

roth88 said:


> I don't like the idea of cutting the size of the field down to 30. It will definitely disadvantage privateers, anyone recovering from injury, women coming back from maternity leave, and probably more groups I'm not thinking of. It also goes without saying that losing Rob's commentary will really suck. He and Bart have good chemistry and depth of knowledge that you can't easily replace.


That all seems pretty specific to DH.

It would be a massive shame to cut the XCO field to 30, and given they currently run a field of 40 for the XCC it would seem like they can run that much.

I can understand for DH with the time it takes to get 50 people per race down the mountain.

It will cripple the sport of XC racing if it's limited to 30 as there's a bunch of riders that will never get a start at World Cup level due to unavailability of points races in their part of the world, and moving up from U23 will become too cutthroat.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My first exposure to Rob Warner was him commentating at Red Bull Rampage. I didn't get him at first. Now however, losing Rob is a massive blow. Others paired with him do well (Bart, Claudio, Tracy, Elliot), but Rob is the glue that holds them together.

Hopefully UCI doesn't just kill MTBing racing (XC and DH) by making it completely inaccessible with their greed.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> That all seems pretty specific to DH.
> ...
> 
> It will cripple the sport of XC racing if it's limited to 30 as there's a bunch of riders that will never get a start at World Cup level due to unavailability of points races in their part of the world, and moving up from U23 will become too cutthroat.


I'm pretty certain this is only for DH, since the number of riders has implications on how the video coverage is constructed and staged. In XCO/XCC with the mass start that's a non-issue.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I was writing from the XCO perspective - if the change is only proposed for DH, I would be a little less perturbed, but it still seems unnecessary.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

On the DH side it's less of an issue given the Qualification process. It still takes away the opportunity for 20 riders to market their sponsors etc which doesn't seem great for growing the sport. 

If it meant more coverage of Qualification and a higher level of coverage of the finals I guess there's merit. I don't follow DH beyond the NZers results/top handful. Is there a steep drop off in time/skill towards the end of the top 50?


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

For those who don't look at PB, Fluek is out for Snowshoe and Mt. St. Anne.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathi...hoe-and-mont-sainte-anne-world-cup-races.html


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> I was writing from the XCO perspective - if the change is only proposed for DH, I would be a little less perturbed, but it still seems unnecessary.


I think it might really help DH racing. Right now we miss a huge amount of each run because they are trying to fit 60 (or is 80) riders in a small time slot. 

With only 30 riders they can have more time between riders and show more of their run.

From a development side, riders outside of the top 40 really shouldn’t be racing world cups. They should be racing a national series. A top 5 at a US cup or Canada is worth way more to a sponsor that a 35th at a World Cup.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Wow, that would suck for the DH privateers or riders having to work to pay for the year as Tracy Hanna did.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> I think it might really help DH racing. Right now we miss a huge amount of each run because they are trying to fit 60 (or is 80) riders in a small time slot.
> 
> With only 30 riders they can have more time between riders and show more of their run.
> 
> From a development side, riders outside of the top 40 really shouldn’t be racing world cups. They should be racing a national series. A top 5 at a US cup or Canada is worth way more to a sponsor that a 35th at a World Cup.


I'd agree. The more I think about this, the more I can see the reasoning. It's the World Cup, the top level (Elite) for the best riders around. I'd probably allow 'wildcards' for each round, so local riders can do their home round. However, what is needed is a series below the World Cup (but above national); one that is well run, promoted and is worth doing for riders who can't get in the World Cup.

And I've often wondered, what do sponsors get out of a rider finishing outside the top 40? But that can apply to lots of sports


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> I think it might really help DH racing. Right now we miss a huge amount of each run because they are trying to fit 60 (or is 80) riders in a small time slot.
> 
> With only 30 riders they can have more time between riders and show more of their run.
> 
> From a development side, riders outside of the top 40 really shouldn’t be racing world cups. They should be racing a national series. A top 5 at a US cup or Canada is worth way more to a sponsor that a 35th at a World Cup.


Good points but I think what would is needed more is a racing category level below the top elite’s category. There are some promising privateers who don’t crack top30 and they national series isn’t at a high enough level. So maybe the UCI doesn’t have a category but I can see a category gap for riders wanting to step up to elite but won’t crack top 30z something RedBull can plug


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

cal_len1 said:


> He had a story up on his Insta about it, sounds like his legs just locked up completely, and he just went OTB. Pretty strange crash though.


Damn..."cramped so hard, I fell off my bike...". On a total separate note, it was like every other bike there was a Scott Spark...which is cool because...I ride a Scott Spark.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Snowshoe forecast (SLATYFORK, WV) on weather underground is saying it's going to be a very sloppy weekend.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

le_pedal said:


> Snowshoe forecast (SLATYFORK, WV) on weather underground is saying it's going to be a very sloppy weekend.


That would be awesome


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I'd love to see a sloppy weekend. Jolanda Neff is such a beast in the mud and on the downhill - it's been a while since we got to see her in her element. Nino could be poised to break the record, too.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Is it just my impression or there are quite a few top racers not showing up in the North American leg of the WC?


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Brad said:


> Nino fans are like Lewis Shamilton fans


Not really, Nino isn’t on a remarkably faster bike than is competitors. 

Being a Nino fan is like being a Tom Brady fan. 

 :  


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Carioca_XC said:


> Is it just my impression or there are quite a few top racers not showing up in the North American leg of the WC?


So many people have been sick the last couple of weeks. I think a lot are staying home to make up for some missed training.

No point in racing if you have no form.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> So many people have been sick the last couple of weeks. I think a lot are staying home to make up for some missed training.
> 
> No point in racing if you have no form.


Agree. There's also quite a few riders that mentioned early on that they were going to have a break to peak for World's. 

Comm Games are in a week, so that would factor in a few riders plans.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

It happens every year. The Europe racers don't what to come to NA.

Plus it seems like everyone was sick going into and coming out of Andorra. Wouldn't be surprised if more announce they won't be there.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> Not really, Nino isn’t on a remarkably faster bike than is competitors.
> 
> Being a Nino fan is like being a Tom Brady fan.
> 
> ...


I don't follow Grid Iron Football so that went over my head sorry :/


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

Brad said:


> I don't follow Grid Iron Football so that went over my head sorry :/


Apply to the sport to where any one player has been physically dominant or in contention for a championship throughout their mature career.

Lebron James
Lionel Messi
Michael Phelps
Usain Bolt



Lewis is in a Car, if his car is a small percentage slower, he would never win. Some people like him because he wins, some because they like Mercedes’, others for the person he is, or seemed to be throughout his career. 

No one really knows the person Nino is globally, so they just like the way he races and what he can do on any bike. 

People like lebron, Brady, Messi, Hamilton have been in the spotlight for years, so you can make a strong judgement for how you like the person. 

Conveniently, most of these Cats in non-motorsports are polarizing, but their skill is undeniable. 


Hamilton and Nino are very similar in the way their mental strategy/game is a big part of their consistency. Knowledge is power. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

A lot of people have gotten COVID and it's definitely fair (and probably advisable) to skip the North America races to recover, but when it comes to the World Champs question, I'm rooting for racers who have gone the whole season. IMO it's more of an accomplishment to get the rainbow stripes on top of completing the full grind of the regular season. I won't be rooting for Pidcock or Lecomte there, even though they are both amazing talents whom I respect a lot. I'd simply rather see the win go to someone who pulled off the perfect day with a full season behind.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

roth88 said:


> A lot of people have gotten COVID and it's definitely fair (and probably advisable) to skip the North America races to recover, but when it comes to the World Champs question, I'm rooting for racers who have gone the whole season. IMO it's more of an accomplishment to get the rainbow stripes on top of completing the full grind of the regular season. I won't be rooting for Pidcock or Lecomte there, even though they are both amazing talents whom I respect a lot. I'd simply rather see the win go to someone who pulled off the perfect day with a full season behind.


Pidcock has probably put as many miles/hours, or more, as anyone in XCO, just not there. He's had a plenty full season. I think it would be more impressive if the guy can just swoop in, after not racing XCO all year, and take the crown away. I'd love to see him win Alpe D'Huez and Worlds in the same year. That's gotta be a very short list of people.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I can't see Pidcock on the XCOdata ranking. He might have a very difficult start position if he does show up for World's...

Given his current form and how much he's enjoying the Road, I'd expect him to change focus to Road World's. It's a course that could suit him.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Definitely the rainbow stripes matters a lot. But I still don’t understand how much disdain the World Cup Overall gets from riders. Many of them skip WC races for various reasons, but mostly aiming at the World Champs. I don’t know, I guess the WC Overall should have more prestige (than it currently does, not more than the rainbow stripes). It is the crowning of a full season, after all.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I am with you, I don't understand why it's treated so poorly. Why doesn't the overall winner get a Jersey? Why is it just a footnote. Being that consistent each race is super impressive, but from a recognition standpoint, isn't really. 

I just don't get why we celebrate the one person on one day versus the person who was able to remain consistent for months.

All that means is I think the overall should get a fancy jersey too.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

It seems like those in contention for it think it's a big deal. For example I'm pretty sure it's second on Kate Courtney's plamares.

I guess it's tough though because the rainbow stripes are the pinnacle behind Olympic Gold.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

jrob300 said:


> Pidcock has probably put as many miles/hours, or more, as anyone in XCO, just not there. He's had a plenty full season. I think it would be more impressive if the guy can just swoop in, after not racing XCO all year, and take the crown away. I'd love to see him win Alpe D'Huez and Worlds in the same year. That's gotta be a very short list of people.


I would bet that the fitness gained from riding the full TdF is going to be hard to match...assuming he can recover and peak again. Yes, I would love to see Pidcock riding more MTB events, but I have huge admiration for his ability to compete at the very top levels of 3 different disciplines.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

It is a good thing MSA is next weekend. The Pope is there tomorrow. Can you imagine the chaos?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Eric F said:


> I would bet that the fitness gained from riding the full TdF is going to be hard to match...assuming he can recover and peak again. Yes, I would love to see Pidcock riding more MTB events, but I have huge admiration for his ability to compete at the very top levels of 3 different disciplines.


I think he going to be absolutely nuked a shadow of himself. Sort of like MVDP at the tour this year.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> I think he going to be absolutely nuked a shadow of himself. Sort of like MVDP at the tour this year.


Hard to say.... MVDP seems prone to overtrain. Pidcock definitely faded or throttled back after the Alpe. Nobody really knows but him which it is. I will enjoy watching whatever he does. He brings a lot to the sport.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> Hard to say.... MVDP seems prone to overtrain. Pidcock definitely faded or throttled back after the Alpe. Nobody really knows but him which it is. I will enjoy watching whatever he does. He brings a lot to the sport.


MvdP's issue this year is his lack of base fitness during the winter; he's since been playing catch up. And attempting the Giro/Tour double seemed madness. And he didn't get the recovery expected between the two races.

As for Pidcock, his coach, Kurt Bogaerts is pretty shrewd about getting him in shape for major targets; he won the Olympics after a broken collar bone; he won the CX Worlds after a disappointing race a week before. 

His next MTB is meant to be the Euro MTBs in Munich, about a week before the MTB Worlds....


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Carioca_XC said:


> Definitely the rainbow stripes matters a lot. But I still don’t understand how much disdain the World Cup Overall gets from riders. Many of them skip WC races for various reasons, but mostly aiming at the World Champs. I don’t know, I guess the WC Overall should have more prestige (than it currently does, not more than the rainbow stripes). It is the crowning of a full season, after all.


There is a solution - but it's radical. Go down the motorsport series route, and make the World Cup the World Championship. The season's best rider then becomes the World Champion - and you don't get a fluke/ lucky winner. It allows for an off day, mechanical, etc 

But it's cycling, and won't ever happen.....


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Has MVDP hinted whether or not he'll be back on the MTB this year?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> There is a solution - but it's radical. Go down the motorsport series route, and make the World Cup the World Championship. The season's best rider then becomes the World Champion - and you don't get a fluke/ lucky winner. It allows for an off day, mechanical, etc
> 
> But it's cycling, and won't ever happen.....


An athlete who is consistently the best is different than athlete who is best on the day that everyone else is trying to be the best.

World championships are different in that everybody has designed their training to be at their best for that race. At world cups you have athletes racing who are at different phases of their training. Some are peaked others are racing with serious training load.

I like the separation of overall versus WC. They have different meanings to the riders. 

In a trophy room that big crystal trophy for the overall is just as meaningful as that rainbow jersey.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> I think he going to be absolutely nuked a shadow of himself. Sort of like MVDP at the tour this year.


I totally agree. 

The TDF seemed so hard this year. The insane heat, the intense pace every single day and the stress of the whole circus. I'd be surprised if he can recover enough to race well. Even if his body can recover, his mind probably needs a rest too. I can't imagine what 30 odd hours of 30 MPH peleton race tactics does to your brain.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I'd rather see the prizes flipped - rainbow stripes for the winner of the overall and big shiny trophy for the winner of World Champs. You could even do something like a special insignia or extra rows of stripes to indicate multiple-time overall winners (to wear forever). Might be idealistic, but I could see the riders bringing their A-game to every single race to try to get that jersey. It would make for dramatic viewing, too, since the leaderboard would probably change every week.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

There is a leaders jersey. It's a vague white and bluish triangle thing. UCI really needs a better leader's jersey that doesn't just blend in with everything....


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

roth88 said:


> I'd rather see the prizes flipped - rainbow stripes for the winner of the overall and big shiny trophy for the winner of World Champs. You could even do something like a special insignia or extra rows of stripes to indicate multiple-time overall winners (to wear forever). Might be idealistic, but I could see the riders bringing their A-game to every single race to try to get that jersey. It would make for dramatic viewing, too, since the leaderboard would probably change every week.


I like this. Not really a fan of a World Champs “Event” format at all. You get your piece of glory on the podium at individual events, but the “World Champ” should have the most points at the end of the season. And, as already mentioned, it gives incentive to make all the rounds, rather than cherry-picking certain events.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

LMN said:


> I think he going to be absolutely nuked a shadow of himself. Sort of like MVDP at the tour this year.


It's possible. He's young and this was his first TdF. His body might not be able to handle the load yet. Then again, he might recover well, and return as a monster. I'm hoping for the monster.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

GSPChilliwack said:


> I like this. Not really a fan of a World Champs “Event” format at all. You get your piece of glory on the podium at individual events, but the “World Champ” should have the most points at the end of the season. And, as already mentioned, it gives incentive to make all the rounds, rather than cherry-picking certain events.


Although I tend to agree that a bigger deal should be made of the World Cup series winner, MTB exists under the UCI umbrella. They aren't going to change to the 1-day World Champ format that has been in place for decades.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Eric F said:


> His body might not be able to handle the load yet.


He's 27 and by all accounts has been training at elite volumes for a large portion of his life. Riders who are much younger and/or have a far lesser pedigree regularly complete and are competitive at the TdF. Clearly, something went wrong for him in his preparation. Some articles have him citing a poorly executed altitude training block. I just don't think it's an age or cumulative lifetime volume buildup issue.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

A bunch of other sports do cumulative results to crown a World Champ. But most of them are not into the IOC much...


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Circlip said:


> He's 27 and by all accounts has been training at elite volumes for a large portion of his life. Riders who are much younger and/or have a far lesser pedigree regularly complete and are competitive at the TdF. Clearly, something went wrong for him in his preparation. Some articles have him citing a poorly executed altitude training block. I just don't think it's an age or cumulative lifetime volume buildup issue.


Who are you talking about? My comments were about Tom Pidcock, who turns 23 in a couple of days.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

The reason for World Cups an World Champs is to fall inline with IOC Olympic qualifying criteria.
This for the 2020Olympic Games
"
*Mountain biking[edit]*
For mountain biking, 38 spots per gender are allocated. Thirty places will be allocated through the UCI nation rankings and three through continental championships with one each for Africa, Americas, and Asia. One spot per gender has been reserved for host nation Japan. The remaining four spots will be awarded to the top mountain bikers competing at the 2019 UCI World Championships, with two each in the elite and under-23, respectively.


SO UCI points are super important i.e. the World Cup and then the World Champs of the preceding year. Soem countries may have slightly different selection criteria taking results of their athletes from 2yrs prior to the Games (early Qualification).
Overhauling the World Cup + World Champs format would require some overhaul of the Olympic selection criteria as well I'd imagine. Someone who knows more about this can chime in please LMN


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Exmuhle said:


> There is a solution - but it's radical. Go down the motorsport series route, and make the World Cup the World Championship. The season's best rider then becomes the World Champion - and you don't get a fluke/ lucky winner. It allows for an off day, mechanical, etc
> 
> But it's cycling, and won't ever happen.....


This exactly. The overall series winner should be the world champion. It never, ever made sense to have two separate championships. A one day race is not the years top racer, almost never. It's cool for this one day champ to wear the stripes, and up your paycheck, but the overall series point leader is the champion to me. Then every race counts, you don't have a world championship race stuck in the middle of the world cup schedule, that half the racers blow off to be in their best shape for one day. It doesn't make sense the way it is now. Never has.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Eric F said:


> Who are you talking about? My comments were about Tom Pidcock, who turns 23 in a couple of days.


My bad. The post you quoted was talking about MvdP and Pidcock, but I can see now that you were focusing in on TP.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

ShortTravelMag said:


> This exactly. The overall series winner should be the world champion. It never, ever made sense to have two separate championships. A one day race is not the years top racer, almost never. It's cool for this one day champ to wear the stripes, and up your paycheck, but the overall series point leader is the champion to me. Then every race counts, you don't have a world championship race stuck in the middle of the world cup schedule, that half the racers blow off to be in their best shape for one day. It doesn't make sense the way it is now. Never has.


As we've been discussing, there are reasons for it. Like it or not, this is the way it's going to stay. Personally, I would like to see the overall World Cup champ get more accolades for it than they do now, maybe similar to skiing where the overall winner is the biggest prize.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> An athlete who is consistently the best is different than athlete who is best on the day that everyone else is trying to be the best.





LMN said:


> An athlete who is consistently the best is different than athlete who is best on the day that everyone else is trying to be the best.


100% agree. 

Don't change to a series format, the ITU did and I think it completely takes away from the spectacle of the World Championship.

It's possible to be the World Cup winner by never winning a round for example.

Sure, increase the importance of the World Cup series, but keep the World Champion as the very fastest athlete on the biggest day of the year.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I’ve followed surfing for years, and they’ve had a season long world champion based on points for about 40 years now. Last year they changed it so the top 5 (I think) compete in the championship event at the end of the season to determine the world champion. 

Not sure if I like it yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

celswick said:


> I’ve followed surfing for years, and they’ve had a season long world champion based on points for about 40 years now. Last year they changed it so the top 5 (I think) compete in the championship event at the end of the season to determine the world champion.
> 
> Not sure if I like it yet.
> 
> ...


That’s just about marketability


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Just having the overall from prior year get to wear a special jersey would be enough for me. They shouldn't be "just another racer" in the world cups.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

cassieno said:


> Just having the overall from prior year get to wear a special jersey would be enough for me. They shouldn't be "just another racer" in the world cups.


I would like to see number plates based on last years ranking.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

My wife and I were talking about that. The athletes change jerseys and numbers almost every race. It's difficult to keep track. Constant numbers would make it easier to follow whose who.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Horribly wet out there. People finishing training with 40lb bikes.

Might be a running race


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Its fun to obsess over minute details of the bikes - bikes are so easy to observe and measure. But then you watch Pidcock, Dascalau, and Shurter finish top 3 on bikes with 100mm, 60mm, and 120mm suspensions, all with difference suspension designs, and you realize the bike just doesn't matter that much, not like F1 for instance.

In the big picture I think talent is the most important factor, but inside of that you see riders who go through big swings in performance, up not just down, over a relatively short period time -- a couple years. The basic talent isn't changing much in that time. Right now Courtney and Batty both come to mind, but I think you can think of a bunch. Too bad it is so hard to 'observe' training and athlete preparation, especially as a spectator, since that is where the performance frontier actually is.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Personally I prefer the old blue jersey from the 90's, simple and plain, but easy to spot (although was blue becasue of Grundig sponsorship, but still) this white/balck one is hopeless.

Worlds is a big thing over world cup, since it comes in from when mtb got rolled into UCI. Road doesn't really have any sort of series, I mean I think there is, but it means pretty much zero, its all about individual races being big...and so worlds is another big thing.
So worlds for mtb gets to be a big thing when it came in in 1991 (officially). But the world cup was also a big thing...but there is usually only like 6 rounds (but sometimes more)... so it isn't like other sports where the series has a bunch of races, there are only a few... and while it is still hard and expensive to do world cups around the world, back in the 90's it was even harder as teams in general had less money so peopel would only be doing a few rounds...i guess that is still today, big teams, money to travel, small teams not so much. but anyway, you would have people not doing all the rounds becasue they weren't able to, and even now, you get injured, you will be missing that round plus the next maybe...then there goes any chance of winining.
But there is also the fact that world champs and world cup are...different.
World cup you race for your team..and yourself to some extent.
World champs you race for your country.
To roll them into one would be wrong, I think. You might as well say, in an Olymic year, whoever wins the world cup...they are also Olympic champ as well.

Other than all that, I say bring back the blue jersey.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

LMN said:


> I would like to see number plates based on last years ranking.


I like this. Although In motorcycle racing, so few will run the #1 plate because their branding is so closely tied to their race number.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

celswick said:


> I’ve followed surfing for years, and they’ve had a season long world champion based on points for about 40 years now. Last year they changed it so the top 5 (I think) compete in the championship event at the end of the season to determine the world champion.
> 
> Not sure if I like it yet.
> 
> ...


...and the WSL messed this up big time. Blow back from a lot of surfers has been constant. The pinnacle events in Hawaii just lost all the importance they once had and you just have to be good in certain wave and not all types of waves. NASCAR did something like this with the ''playoffs''. Why not stick to points? I get it...not all sports are alike, but being the world champion should mean that you are the best of this world time and time again and not only just that one day were luck plays a strong part.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I'm sticking to what I said a few months earlier...PFP will no finish the season. She's not doing the North American leg and without any explanation. Yes, she stated her main goal is the World Champs on home soil, but I don't see her in any shape or form to catch LL, Becca or any other of the podium women from the last couple of races. 

On the other hand, a lot of racers not doing the North American leg hurts the sport. Yes, some of them have good reasons if its injury or sickness related, but to do it because you are concentrating for the World Champs? Yes, World Champs are a big deal but what about your trade team? I could be wrong, but if I were a sponsor like Lexware for example, that are not bike related, I would like to seem my logo in all the important races and probably not care so much about World Champs were it is the country who earns the spoils.


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## khardrunner14 (Aug 16, 2010)

LMN said:


> Horribly wet out there. People finishing training with 40lb bikes.
> 
> Might be a running race


I've been watching the course walks and training runs for DH already in prep for heading out to Snowshoe later today. Some of the DH riders are legit scared of the course right now. It's crazy slick and hard to ride. I can imagine short track will be a mud fest this afternoon. Looks like rain today for the most part. Sunday doesn't look a lot better.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

carlostruco said:


> I'm sticking to what I said a few months earlier...PFP will no finish the season. She's not doing the North American leg and without any explanation. Yes, she stated her main goal is the World Champs on home soil, but I don't see her in any shape or form to catch LL, Becca or any other of the podium women from the last couple of races.


Take in mind that she is still under contract for the Absolute Absalon team, which is owned by....her ex-boyfriend. Maybe she does not getting the full support, or since she just picks out the races she wants to do rather than the one she normally should have to do. But's that's just speculation of course.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

jfcb said:


> Take in mind that she is still under contract for the Absolute Absalon team, which is owned by....her ex-boyfriend. Maybe she does not getting the full support, or since she just picks out the races she wants to do rather than the one she normally should have to do. But's that's just speculation of course.


All that is true, but she created her own structure and support group within the team. We could all agree that this looks messy as hell, but correct me if I'm wrong, there has been very little to show from this season. I've always liked her as a racer that can succeed in different areas of the sport, but it seems lately she's been backwards while other are going upwards.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

She might just be over racing? 
Not a great time when you are still under contract. But she focused a ton on technical skills. Did well in Brazil and then got sick. 

From the outside it seems like PFP just sort of lost interest.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

PFP started strong and she said as far back as Petropolis that she wouldn't race every weekend to focus on World Champs. She and Lecomte are on the same program there. I don't know what she's been up since then, though. 

I'm hoping Neff takes the win in Snowshoe. She's a killer in wet, technical conditions and I'd love to see her get back on top - simply because she clearly loves the sport and I love watching athletes who are having a lot of fun. Without Lecomte there (who is also very strong in wet conditions), I think she has an extra advantage.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Nice to see the most underrated American rider take the win!


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

That was an exciting race!

So many explosions and explosive efforts.

Terrific ride by Gwendolyn!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

That was very good racing by Blevins. Impressive!


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

WOW!!! Amazing races for both women and men.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

did a whip go wrong for Nino?


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

ccm said:


> did a whip go wrong for Nino?


My sense is that he clipped the end of his handlebar on the rail. Just a guess.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ccm said:


> did a whip go wrong for Nino?


That was my first thought too; but in those conditions would he even try that....?? He didn't look good, really shaken up.....


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## sperho (Sep 1, 2013)

Exmuhle said:


> That was my first thought too; but in those conditions would he even try that....?? He didn't look good, really shaken up.....


I was standing on the corner entering that bridge when he crashed. There is not enough room to whip off off of the bridge - it's very narrow... The exit to the gravel is a pretty sharp transition to flat and they start to turn hard right at the transition. I didn't see his actual crash (only him laying down afterward off the track), but my guess is he lost the front in the gravel/mud at the exit. He did get on the seat of the medic's ATV instead of the stretcher that it was pulling, so while banged up and perhaps a pretty hard rung bell he was able to walk to the ATV after several minutes, so that's good...


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

sperho said:


> I was standing on the corner entering that bridge when he crashed. There is not enough room to whip off off of the bridge - it's very narrow... The exit to the gravel is a pretty sharp transition to flat and they start to turn hard right at the transition. I didn't see his actual crash (only him laying down afterward off the track), but my guess is he lost the front in the gravel/mud at the exit. He did get on the seat of the medic's ATV instead of the stretcher that it was pulling, so while banged up and perhaps a pretty hard rung bell he was able to walk to the ATV after several minutes, so that's good...


Looking at the video replay, it appeared that he lost control well before the bottom of the ramp, and essentially fell to the ground.


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## sperho (Sep 1, 2013)

Eric F said:


> Looking at the video replay, it appeared that he lost control well before the bottom of the ramp, and essentially fell to the ground.


That's crazy. I have no idea how one loses control down that ramp. Did he come off of the top wonky?


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

It definitely looked like he clipped a bar on the side of the bridge or something. He beat his bike to the bottom 😬.

Gutted for him. Looked like a potential concussion, and they obviously mentioned a possible separated shoulder. Massive shame as he was a great shout for Sunday.


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## sperho (Sep 1, 2013)

mail_liam said:


> It definitely looked like he clipped a bar on the side of the bridge or something. He beat his bike to the bottom 😬.
> 
> Gutted for him. Looked like a potential concussion, and they obviously mentioned a possible separated shoulder. Massive shame as he was a great shout for Sunday.


Yeah, just watched the replay - I'm thinking clipped bar too. That bridge is pretty narrow...


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Eric F said:


> Looking at the video replay, it appeared that he lost control well before the bottom of the ramp, and essentially fell to the ground.


I totally agree that it appeared as if he was falling way before the bottom of the ramp. I have no idea how it happened, but Nino’s handlebar hitting the side of the bridge was Bart’s guess during the broadcast.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

American double......Must be a conspiracy! I say


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## rideveryhard (Mar 22, 2012)

Don’t see the start of the crash, but any chance Fluekinger was trying to pass Nino on the bridge while out walking his dog?


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

__





Watch this story by Bec McConnell (Henderson) on Instagram before it disappears.







instagram.com





Bec hit the deck harder than I thought.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

So bummed for Nino


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah, feel lucky it wasn't a race-ending injury for her. Poor Nino.

Great finish by Blevins! Nice tactics and great use of that rocky ramp to get into second, plus that sprint finish.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

Says it all. Hopefully he feels OK enough to soldier on for the XCO...


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## Mr_Peepers (Mar 27, 2012)

Really happy for Blevins! He seems like a great dude. 

Vlad wanted no part of a sprint with him.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

That was quite the impact for Nino! I’m sure most of us have had a crash like that at some point. Never feels good


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Great racing today, but the Snowshoe course (more than others) needs some changes for safety. Laura Stigger broke her arm after getting shoved into the starting corral wall last year (you can see how it juts out again this and spectators push it even further) and that bridge Nino clipped was too narrow, especially in these conditions. I'm not a fan of introducing man-made hazards (and in fact, am not a fan of the bridges, tunnels, or other man-made additions period). The men's downhill race in Andorra last time had the worst yet - that bridge into the finish line was freaking scary and at least one rider was lucky he didn't actually get killed there. Personally, I want to see the risk come from the natural obstacles and the racers' tactics, not from sloppy construction and fence placement.

I hope Nino recovers in time for next week's race at the very least. I'm still hoping for him to beat the record. Very cool to see Gibson and Blevins ride to the win today, though.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

I stayed in media black-out mode until I could get home and watch the on-demand of the short track. That was f'in amazing!


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

theMISSIONARY said:


> American double......Must be a conspiracy! I say


It's what we're know for you know. 🤣. We come with some crazy **** man.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

sperho said:


> That's crazy. I have no idea how one loses control down that ramp. Did he come off of the top wonky?


There wasn’t clear video of the moment that caused it. Only once he was already falling.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Where can I watch the full xcc races, not just highlights? Red bull?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RedBull.tv


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Who the hell is that Gibson lady?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Good to see no broken bones for Nino; and his team posted about being thankful for his helmet saving serious head injury. With that, I don't expect to see him race on Sunday....he looked to take a big hit.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

rideveryhard said:


> Don’t see the start of the crash, but any chance Fluekinger was trying to pass Nino on the bridge while out walking his dog?


Probably Absalon made a deal with Fluck...you know...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Beccas crash looked very nasty...Nino's crash was nastier!!! He's really luck not to have a concussion. His Garmin took the brunt of it tough...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

My first reaction to nino’s crash was broken ribs and collar bone. Then when the camera panned to him writhing about on the floor in pain I hoped it wasn’t more serious. Fortunately it’s not but that was a very weird accident. He was launching the bike off the top on the two previous laps so wonder if he got it slightly wrong and clipped the bars while the bike was in the air because he arrived KLM style, way before the bike.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Cool for Blevins to win in the US, but I’d love to see Dascalu finally get a win after all the riding in the front he’s done this season.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

carlostruco said:


> Beccas crash looked very nasty...Nino's crash was nastier!!! He's really luck not to have a concussion. His Garmin took the brunt of it tough...


I didn’t think it was actually possible to over the bars on a bike with a 900mm reach. But apparently it is possible and when you do it is big!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Yeah I thought these new fangled Uber super Doppler geo bikes were crash proof


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

They're just faster 😜


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

LMN said:


> I didn’t think it was actually possible to over the bars on a bike with a 900mm reach. But apparently it is possible and when you do it is big!


similar to a stoker catapult on a tandem


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Which one is scarier to ride wet and muddy? Nove Mesto or Snowshoe? Leoagang has a very sketchy downhill section and lets not even talk about La Beatrice!!! Luckily Fluck is not here to do another super epic somersault!!!


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

LMN said:


> I didn’t think it was actually possible to over the bars on a bike with a 900mm reach. But apparently it is possible and when you do it is big!


The way he went down I'm thinking he hit his Left Brake Lever on the guardrail upright just after the transition to the down ramp. 
Brake grabs, nose dives and Nino becomes a OTB Gravity Check Instrument.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

This link has a slo-mo of Nino’s crash. It looks like he’s over to the left at the top of the bridge, and you can see that he loses speed before hurtling back into view. A different meaning to “huck-to-flat”


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

#slackdon'tsteeronflats


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Augustus-G said:


> The way he went down I'm thinking he hit his Left Brake Lever on the guardrail upright just after the transition to the down ramp.
> Brake grabs, nose dives and Nino becomes a OTB Gravity Check Instrument.


I was referring to Bec’s crash. She went OTB on the drop.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Scariest is the wet?

Albstadt, the mud there turns to ice


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

LMN said:


> I was referring to Bec’s crash. She went OTB on the drop.


Bec's I have no idea other than it happened during Lap 2. Did they show it in a Replay?
BTW, did you notice the gaps in the Guardrail where Nino crashed?
The more I watch that Slow-Mo the more I'm thinking he may have hit the end of the left downslope rail.
If you watch his front wheel he's definitely way over on the Left side of the bridge.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Best XCC I’ve seen. Everyone was shattered at the end.

Surprised they don’t have more races go down the main drag of the host resort. 

We were in the Vail area for a week last month and as I was cruising through the shopping/restaurant I thought, “This would be a great place for a race start/finish”. 

Wide streets, a boat load of tourists, massive amounts of lodging, etc. Whistler would be great, too. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Also, Jenny Rissveds is my favorite mountain bike racer, male or female. Wears her heart on her sleeve. The best interviews, too, by a good stretch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Also, Jenny Rissveds is my favorite mountain bike racer, male or female. Wears her heart on her sleeve. The best interviews, too, by a good stretch.


The two standouts on the women's side for me this year are Rissveds and Keller. Mostly for the reason that they both appear quite willing to put themselves deep into the hurt zone. For the two of them, it doesn't seem to matter whether they are going for a podium or top ten (acknowledging that every race this year Rissveds has been podium hunting) but I have zero doubt about them leaving anything out there. I respect that level of commitment to absolute maximum effort in each and every race.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> Surprised they don’t have more races go down the main drag of the host resort.
> 
> We were in the Vail area for a week last month and as I was cruising through the shopping/restaurant I thought, “This would be a great place for a race start/finish”.
> 
> Wide streets, a boat load of tourists, massive amounts of lodging, etc. Whistler would be great, too.


Well, the new rights holders/ promoters wouldn't be doing their job if they're not talking to these types of venues.....If you going to have races in the US/Canada, why not make it worth their while, and have a few? Though I think they'd be better after Worlds...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> Well, the new rights holders/ promoters wouldn't be doing their job if they're not talking to these types of venues.....If you going to have races in the US/Canada, why not make it worth their while, and have a few? Though I think they'd be better after Worlds...


A triple is rumored for whistler for 2024 season. (Enduro, DH, XC)


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

North America really needs 4 events on the calendar. Snowshoe and Mont St Anne plus Whistler and something in California, Napa Valley, Marin or Orange counties would be great . Colorado would also work but Mtb started in NA so there’s hostile be more events there with a 10 to 12 race season.

agreed on Jenny. She s by far my favourite Mtb racer at the moment.Keller is cool and I love her leaving it all out there but her poise on the bike always looks like someone need to run next to her with life support. It’s not pretty but effective, maybe that’s a Thomus Bikes thing


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Brad said:


> North America really needs 4 events on the calendar. Snowshoe and Mont St Anne plus Whistler and something in California, Napa Valley, Marin or Orange counties would be great . Colorado would also work but Mtb started in NA so there’s hostile be more events there with a 10 to 12 race season.


I'm torn on this. For the sport it's great to spread races around, but the west coast of NA is almost as far from Snowshoe and Mt St Anne as they are from Europe (and Petropolis if that stays on the calendar). So you're adding a lot of travel for the athletes, which is brutal, and it seems like you'd just increase the likelihood of riders skipping more of the WC races in order to be in the best shape for Worlds and a select few WC races depending on the rider. Maybe the North American races could alternate east and west coast by year or something like that?


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Exmuhle said:


> Well, the new rights holders/ promoters wouldn't be doing their job if they're not talking to these types of venues.....


Does the UCI contract out the WC series?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I'm torn on this. For the sport it's great to spread races around, but the west coast of NA is almost as far from Snowshoe and Mt St Anne as they are from Europe (and Petropolis if that stays on the calendar). So you're adding a lot of travel for the athletes, which is brutal, and it seems like you'd just increase the likelihood of riders skipping more of the WC races in order to be in the best shape for Worlds and a select few WC races depending on the rider. Maybe the North American races could alternate east and west coast by year or something like that?


It’s brutal for the North American racers to travel to Europe, but they still do it. 

Put 3-4 races out of 8-10 in the Western Hemisphere and I’d bet more people show up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> Does the UCI contract out the WC series?


Discovery is broadcasting and running the series for the next five years. Chris Ball who ran the DH series and started the EWS is in charge.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

A lap was added to the races today after the u23 men were doing 10 minute laps


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

LMN said:


> A lap was added to the races today after the u23 men were doing 10 minute laps


I was wondering about those finish times! 63? Minutes seemed short


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> It’s brutal for the North American racers to travel to Europe, but they still do it.
> 
> Put 3-4 races out of 8-10 in the Western Hemisphere and I’d bet more people show up.
> 
> ...


I remember world cups at Whistler, Grouse Mountain, and Calgary Olympic Park back in ~2002-2005? Also a Napa valley I think in 2000?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

/delete


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

/delete


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino not riding today


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Nino not riding today


After the lawn dart treatment he gave himself on Friday and reported shoulder injury, that would have been a miracle for him to take the start.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Woah! I thought Jenny had it in the bag and then what drama in the last lap!


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Jenny was making the most impressive passes on Keller on sketchy downhills


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

arca_tern said:


> Woah! I thought Jenny had it in the bag and then what drama in the last lap!


Keller just has this annoying tendency of not giving up


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

le_pedal said:


> Jenny was making the most impressive passes on Keller on sketchy downhills


She did indeed, but apparently, Rissveds also went down twice. Once on the last lap that everyone saw, but according to Keller's post-race interview, Rissveds had another spill earlier also.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> Keller just has this annoying tendency of not giving up


If that's annoying, I want some.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I love Keller's attitude. It's amazing she's so gosh, darn fast with such a vigorous amount of body movement while pedaling. She's been on such a steady progression the last few years and always seems to be there when you think she won't.

She's also terrific at altitude.

Rissveds is still being put on this pedestal which seems uncomfortable. I agree with others she seems to be in a great place and it's awesome to see.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I would really like to enjoy a battle with Nino and Mattias on this conditions!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Keller is an amazing rider. She’s not smooth. She doesn’t even look comfortable when she’s pedalling easy but when you look over your shoulder there she is heavy breathing head bobbing pedal mashing. That’s got to drain her competitors.
She deserved a win and she got it.
Jenny I hope will be rewarded for her consistency


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Blevins is a madman.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Blevins is a madman.


Both in the Friday XCC and today he's on a different pace. He's been able to move up through the field at will both days. It's one thing to ride up through the back, but to be able to close gaps and pull up to (or through) the leaders is another matter. He's been really impressive.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Blevins is a madman.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


So smoooooth through the woody sections


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Nice attack from valero👍👍👍


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Valero!!!!!!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Incredible 😂😂☺


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Nice attack from valero👍👍👍


Must admit I didn't see that one coming even though he's been on great form lately. Blevins made some great tactical moves to go for the win, but seems he expended too much energy coming back up to the lead after his flat, and left him short on power in the final few minutes, and in the sprint. Still, a great ride and a great weekend from him.


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## Skarhead (Mar 15, 2018)

Awesome riding from Valero, also Carod, last two laps were great


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Congratulations to Valero for his first XCO WC win. Well deserved, impressive ride. He just showed up in the leader’s group coming out of nowhere. 
On another note, Luca Braidot’s consistency has been amazing. Always among the leaders!


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Nino was probably sneakily smiling on the couch
Also Who can translate Valeros interview ?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

I love him😍😍😍


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

uintah said:


> Does the UCI contract out the WC series?


It's likely the same as a lot of the global motorsport series; F1, MotoGP, WRC, etc A Promoter runs it on behalf of the governing body, and they make all the decisions regarding the calendar, venues, TV rights, etc The governing body provide officials for rules/regs etc


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Nino was probably sneakily smiling on the couch
> Also Who can translate Valeros interview ?


Well let’s see if Nino actually races next weekend. I suspect he may sit it out. Even though nothings broken rumour has it he has some soft tissue damage that may require rest. Or he’ll pitch up with a mile of kinesiology tape


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Brad said:


> Well let’s see if Nino actually races next weekend. I suspect he may sit it out. Even though nothings broken rumour has it he has some soft tissue damage that may require rest. Or he’ll pitch up with a mile of kinesiology tape


My shoulder is so wonky now that if it pops out I can often be back riding within a week. However, I remember the first time I ever did it (decades ago) I was on the shelf for months while the soft tissue injuries healed. Then again, Nino is a far better-conditioned athlete than a hack like me which might make him a little more resistant to severe injuries. I also assume he has unlimited access to physio and other similar resources.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

A little nutty to see the two contrasting halves of Bec's season, the first part during which she couldn't do anything wrong, and now can't seem to get anything to go her way. We've all seen riders come out hot to start the season before faltering, but this is a different kind of faltering. Her drop in relative form seems to have simultaneously attracted all sorts of bad luck. The way her karma has balanced out has been nothing less than vicious.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Brad said:


> Well let’s see if Nino actually races next weekend. I suspect he may sit it out. Even though nothings broken rumour has it he has some soft tissue damage that may require rest. Or he’ll pitch up with a mile of kinesiology tape


If you look at the Nino Schurter hospital bed photo a few pages back the cuts visible are across his collar bone on the front so he hit that bit really hard. It’s too zoomed in to see if he’s got a separated shoulder or not.

It might just be lots of bruising if he landed on that part and was lucky enough to have avoided his shoulder proper without breaking the collar bone.

Shoulder injuries really suck. A dislocated shoulder that goes back in isn’t too bad (relatively) but depending on severity separated shoulders can take ages to recover from.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Fantastic rides from Keller and Valero today - I love first-time winners, especially in tricky conditions. Keller was long overdue (or "knocking at the door," as Rob would say) and Valero surprised me. Great races for both. Anne Terpstra was also rock solid and I was glad to see Neff on the podium too. It's crazy that in the women's race, Kate Courtney finished 10th and was fourth American - wow.

One rant - Rob and Bart need to figure out how to pronounce "Ulloa." Rob says "U-zho-a" and Bart will respond in the next breath with "O-CHO-a." Adding new consonants goes beyond a simple bad accent issue - it would be like saying "here comes Ninotka Schurter" or "Luca Braizendot is on fire today." Needs to stop!

Looking ahead to next week, I'm hoping Schurter and Dascalu will both be there and on form. Dascalu was bleeding badly from his nose and was limping the moment he got off his bike, but I couldn't see any intel on his social media. Also, anyone know what happened to Avancini? He finished down a lap.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Awesome racing,

Man, I was rooting for Schwarzbaumer to make it to the lead for the sprint. He's going so well, and is fun to root for.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

roth88 said:


> Fantastic rides from Keller and Valero today - I love first-time winners, especially in tricky conditions. Keller was long overdue (or "knocking at the door," as Rob would say) and Valero surprised me. Great races for both. Anne Terpstra was also rock solid and I was glad to see Neff on the podium too. It's crazy that in the women's race, Kate Courtney finished 10th and was fourth American - wow.
> 
> One rant - Rob and Bart need to figure out how to pronounce "Ulloa." Rob says "U-zho-a" and Bart will respond in the next breath with "O-CHO-a." Adding new consonants goes beyond a simple bad accent issue - it would be like saying "here comes Ninotka Schurter" or "Luca Braizendot is on fire today." Needs to stop!
> 
> Looking ahead to next week, I'm hoping Schurter and Dascalu will both be there and on form. Dascalu was bleeding badly from his nose and was limping the moment he got off his bike, but I couldn't see any intel on his social media. Also, anyone know what happened to Avancini? He finished down a lap.


Avancini, no form, blew up, had a few offs and ran a lot.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

27:33 into the Redbull coverage, the leader is going down that long rocky descent and looks like he burps the rear.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

roth88 said:


> Great racing today, but the Snowshoe course (more than others) needs some changes for safety. Laura Stigger broke her arm after getting shoved into the starting corral wall last year (you can see how it juts out again this and spectators push it even further) and that bridge Nino clipped was too narrow, especially in these conditions. I'm not a fan of introducing man-made hazards (and in fact, am not a fan of the bridges, tunnels, or other man-made additions period). The men's downhill race in Andorra last time had the worst yet - that bridge into the finish line was freaking scary and at least one rider was lucky he didn't actually get killed there. Personally, I want to see the risk come from the natural obstacles and the racers' tactics, not from sloppy construction and fence placement.
> 
> I hope Nino recovers in time for next week's race at the very least. I'm still hoping for him to beat the record. Very cool to see Gibson and Blevins ride to the win today, though.


+1. I’m not against features and this is a high risk sport but a narrow bridge on a wet, muddy course does what for the race exactly? I’d rather see a longer loop, more singletrack and places for big moves… aka racing.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)




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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

FortOrdMTB said:


> +1. I’m not against features and this is a high risk sport but a narrow bridge on a wet, muddy course does what for the race exactly? I’d rather see a longer loop, more singletrack and places for big moves… aka racing.


The bridge is required because it’s a figure of 8 course. And it’s the same for everybody yet he was the only one who crashed off it in a race.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Women: I really feel for Jenny...so close again and Keller said she was stronger and better. Also great ride for North American racers, but not for Batty. 

Men: The conditions wrecked havoc but taking out the flats and crashes from Hatherly, Colombo and Blevins, those 3 would've take the Top 3. Impressive ride by Luca. 

Valero: Finally!!! He seems like a really cool cat and deserved to win sooner!!! In his interview he didn't said much. 

Rob and Bart: Until they fully learn Spanish, Portugese, Italian or any other (Bart/English), they will mash up pronunciation many times. I am from a Spanish speaking country (and learned 3 other languages) and take no offense on how they pronounce names that are not their native speaking language. You have to be exposed to a language a lot to fully understand it and even word meaning and pronunciations vary a lot by region. 

Next week: I expect more fireworks!!!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

On another note...

Did anybody saw Vlad Dascalu when he crossed the finish line? He had a bloody nose. Turns out he had a nasty crash with deep cut in his knee and a fractured nose. He is in doubt for Mt. Saint Anne. 









Vlad Dascalu se lleva la peor parte en Snowshoe y será duda para Canadá


La imagen de Dascalu llegando a meta con la cara cubierta de barro y sangre era más propia de un soldado en el frente de batalla que la de un ciclista




www.brujulabike.com


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

Brad said:


> The bridge is required because it’s a figure of 8 course. And it’s the same for everybody yet he was the only one who crashed off it in a race.


You don’t need to design a figure 8 course. Even if no one crashes still not a fan of the design.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Emily Batty was riding with broken ribs in the XCC so she didn’t take the startline on Sunday.

No word on how or where Dascalu injured himself


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

FortOrdMTB said:


> You don’t need to design a figure 8 course. Even if no one crashes still not a fan of the design.


You’re right a figure of 8 is not needed but it does make it logistically easier for small teams with only one of two tech people to assist in the tech zone as one tech zone can effectively act as tech zone on both loops by using different sides


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Not to keep harping on the change to Disco, but: Rob and Bart were on FIRE during yesterday's commentary. Them joking about the rain, mud, and fog had me cracking up more than once. I'm gonna miss them!


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Emily Batty was riding with broken ribs in the XCC so she didn’t take the startline on Sunday.
> 
> No word on how or where Dascalu injured himself


How did Batty get injured? That sucks - she's clearly aiming for Mont Saint Anne and that's terrible timing. Personally, I think the young new talent is just too strong right now and that a Batty win is pretty unlikely, but it would be an amazing coup if she pulled it off. She certainly has the technical skills and experience.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Circlip said:


> Must admit I didn't see that one coming even though he's been on great form lately. Blevins made some great tactical moves to go for the win, but seems he expended too much energy coming back up to the lead after his flat, and left him short on power in the final few minutes, and in the sprint. Still, a great ride and a great weekend from him.


I thought Blevins was the strongest rider of the weekend, and getting back to the front after his flat in the XCO was really impressive, but he abandoned the tactics that have been successful most often for him. IMO, it cost him the win. When he got back up to Braidot and Carod, sitting on wheels and conserving for the last lap is what I would have expected, and has been his style. That said, Valero's final attack was tremendous, and he was a deserving winner.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Eric F said:


> I thought Blevins was the strongest rider of the weekend, and getting back to the front after his flat in the XCO was really impressive, but he abandoned the tactics that have been successful most often for him. IMO, it cost him the win. When he got back up to Braidot and Carod, sitting on wheels and conserving for the last lap is what I would have expected, and has been his style. That said, Valero's final attack was tremendous, and he was a deserving winner.


You've got a good point about the tactics. Perhaps the decision-making factor for Blevins (which has since been reported) is that he said he was cramping? If he didn't believe the cramping was going to resolve itself over the closing stages of the race, he might not have had as much confidence in his sprint. Great race by him anyhow as a 4th is still one of his best ever elite XCO results.

Valero measured out his entire race effort extremely well. He's been good for a long time, but he's really come into his own in the last year or so.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Valero's is always coming from the back. Imagine if he had better starts...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

I don't recall it being mentioned, but anyone else find Rissveds' set up different? To me, she always looks more upright like "new geo" while most everyone else looks like the old school hunched over XC race setup. Clearly it works for her and she certainly looks more comfortable than most...but maybe it's just a Rissveds-style vs. Keller-style😐 thing? Not saying good or bad, just something I noticed.

If it's earlier in the thread...ignore.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Rissveds has looked dramatically more upright than other riders in every race I've ever watched. She always looks composed and in control, no matter the conditions. When my house watches a race, we almost always comment on how remarkable it is that she looks like she's out for a Sunday cruiser ride while others (especially Keller, Courtney, and Evie Richards) show visible hard effort. Really interesting.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

roth88 said:


> ...she looks like she's out for a Sunday cruiser...


That's exactly what I thought: Rissveds on her beach cruiser while everyone is is destroying themselves in this race! 😄😆🤣


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Rissveds is always upright. She throws the "low is aero" talk out the window with her set-up. It works for her really really well. You can't compare anyone to Keller really. Keller always looks like she is at 11/10ths and just goes up from there


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Rissveds is always upright. She throws the "low is aero" talk out the window with her set-up. It works for her really really well. You can't compare anyone to Keller really. Keller always looks like she is at 11/10ths and just goes up from there


I'd say you're right...except often Evie looks like she's putting in max effort.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Eric F said:


> I thought Blevins was the strongest rider of the weekend, and getting back to the front after his flat in the XCO was really impressive, but he abandoned the tactics that have been successful most often for him. IMO, it cost him the win. When he got back up to Braidot and Carod, sitting on wheels and conserving for the last lap is what I would have expected, and has been his style. That said, Valero's final attack was tremendous, and he was a deserving winner.


I found myself thinking the same as he went to the front once caught up. While watching, I wondered if it was to minimize spray into his eyes from a rider in front of him. I know that is one reason I'll pull to the front of a group in rainy/muddy races. He looked really focused on keeping clear vision with all his glasses swaps.

There are two significant sources of spray into your eyes while riding...the front wheel spray is mitigated by those little front fenders (which Blevins had), and the second is spray off the rear from a rider in front.

Did anybody notice if he dropped below Valero when he had his flat, then passed him as he moved forward?


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

smartyiak said:


> Not to keep harping on the change to Disco, but: Rob and Bart were on FIRE during yesterday's commentary. Them joking about the rain, mud, and fog had me cracking up more than once. I'm gonna miss them!


Best quote was during the women's race:

Bart: _"a crash from Janet Jackson"_
Rob: _"It's actually Jennifer Jackson, Bart"_


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

It's Janet... Ms. Jackson, if you're nasty


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

jfcb said:


> Best quote was during the women's race:
> 
> Bart: _"a crash from Janet Jackson"_
> Rob: _"It's actually Jennifer Jackson, Bart"_


Lol. I think Bart said Janet all through the XCC as well.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

mail_liam said:


> Awesome racing,
> 
> Man, I was rooting for Schwarzbaumer to make it to the lead for the sprint. He's going so well, and is fun to root for.


Would have been fun to see him there at the end, but I think the other competitors knew it would not be fun for them!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

roth88 said:


> How did Batty get injured? That sucks - she's clearly aiming for Mont Saint Anne and that's terrible timing. Personally, I think the young new talent is just too strong right now and that a Batty win is pretty unlikely, but it would be an amazing coup if she pulled it off. She certainly has the technical skills and experience.


She had a fal during the Canadian XCO national champs. Hence her slump in the XCC too. She should be recovered by World Champs but mentioned she will race MSA


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

FortOrdMTB said:


> You don’t need to design a figure 8 course. Even if no one crashes still not a fan of the design.


If you want a bridge, then make a decent bridge. That thing looked janky. 2x4 side rails? with gaps in between? It was way homemade. They make professional grade bridges, you've seen them at other world cups. Aluminum, bolts, full sides, at least twice that wide. That's just someone being cheap.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

ShortTravelMag said:


> If you want a bridge, then make a decent bridge. That thing looked janky. 2x4 side rails? with gaps in between? It was way homemade. They make professional grade bridges, you've seen them at other world cups. Aluminum, bolts, full sides, at least twice that wide. That's just someone being cheap.


Plenty of WC races, both CX and XC, use bridges similar to what was found at Snowshoe.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nino's technical skills are lauded. And it's pretty funny that he was taken out by a stupid technical mistake. Most of us make them.

However, I have higher expectations for WC courses. Riders shouldn't be take out by stupid course design. Barriers at snowshoe are another example. Line those suckers with plastic or something.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> Nino's technical skills are lauded. And it's pretty funny that he was taken out by a stupid technical mistake. Most of us make them.
> 
> However, I have higher expectations for WC courses. Riders shouldn't be take out by stupid course design. Barriers are snowshoe are another example. Line those suckers with plastic or something.


This is my take too. I thought it was really lame that Stigger broke her arm on the pavement in the starting corral at Snowshoe last year because the corral wall unnecessarily jutted into what everyone knew would be a jam-packed mass start zone. It was a hazard for no purpose. Nino might've made a mistake on any bridge or natural feature, but if the bridge was poorly designed, then it was again a risk that was just not necessary.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

I was at the race and Jenny was so impressive. She was making the most incredible passes on keller lap after lap. She was so well poised going through all of the technical downhill sections. Very cool to witness.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> Valero's is always coming from the back. Imagine if he had better starts...


I don't really get why, it looks like he is a good puncher.



smartyiak said:


> I don't recall it being mentioned, but anyone else find Rissveds' set up different? To me, she always looks more upright like "new geo" while most everyone else looks like the old school hunched over XC race setup. Clearly it works for her and she certainly looks more comfortable than most...but maybe it's just a Rissveds-style vs. Keller-style😐 thing? Not saying good or bad, just something I noticed.
> 
> If it's earlier in the thread...ignore.


She looks also that she sits quite low.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> I don't really get why, it looks like he is a good puncher.
> 
> 
> She looks also that she sits quite low.


She does sit more upright on her bike than most and with a lower saddle than most. Her saddle to bar position it level and this allows her to sight the trail further ahead and also makes it easier to look over her shoulders more easily to keep an eye on the opposition. Pauline sits similarly but further back on the bike.
Limb length and proportions could play a role as well as Jenny doing almost all of her training on her MTB (She also has a Hakka). Whatever the reason she, and Caroline Bohe look beautifully composed when they're racing.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Interestingly her position on the Scott was completely different, she was running -25 stem and pretty agressive position and even her specialized years hse was quite a lot more agressive than on the Ibis now


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Interestingly her position on the Scott was completely different, she was running -25 stem and pretty agressive position and even her specialized years hse was quite a lot more agressive than on the Ibis now


Im not so sure:








Inside the Pro's Bikes - Jenny Rissveds - Mountain Bike Action Magazine


Jenny Rissveds secrets to success



mbaction.com





but it might be the case and I can think of several reasons for that

Exie not requiring as much weighting on the front wheel due to short head tube
well balanced top tube length and reach for the size
rear suspension sitting higher in its travel under power (She rides the suspension pretty "open" all the time
Then there probably other factors like evolving her position on the bike to get to what works for her and not just following what others do.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

cassieno said:


> However, I have higher expectations for WC courses. Riders shouldn't be take out by stupid course design. Barriers at snowshoe are another example. Line those suckers with plastic or something.


I think those barriers used are common in US off road courses; you see them in the US CX races, even the World Cup races.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> Im not so sure:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I agree that her bike set up position wise doesn't look wildly different to me. It looks like she sits with quite a forward saddle position, much like Fluckiger. I always assumed he just has a short torso 🤷‍♂️. Maybe Jenny is the same and has settled on/evolved to the most comfortable/efficient position incrementally. 

Given the Scott slack STA and the Exie modern steep STA it'd make sense her saddle was further forward.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Brad said:


> She does sit more upright on her bike than most and with a lower saddle than most. Her saddle to bar position it level and this allows her to sight the trail further ahead and also makes it easier to look over her shoulders more easily to keep an eye on the opposition. Pauline sits similarly but further back on the bike.
> Limb length and proportions could play a role as well as Jenny doing almost all of her training on her MTB (She also has a Hakka). Whatever the reason she, and Caroline Bohe look beautifully composed when they're racing.


Interestingly many of the mtbers in sweden are only riding mtbs. Its easier on the winter also with snow and ice, they usually have a shitty old bike with fenders etc!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cycloholic said:


> Interestingly many of the mtbers in sweden are only riding mtbs. Its easier on the winter also with snow and ice, they usually have a shitty old bike with fenders etc!


even in the summer, If I recall (ts been a long time since I was in Sweden) the tarmacis quite rough, although bikes lanes are smooth) to provide grip which makes road biking a bit uncomfortable


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

As posted before Jenny has always had a more upright position looking much more relaxed than others even though she is crushing it.
I've always found it interesting late in races how comments are that riders sitting up are tired and should be hunched over but in road racing on big climbs riders tend to be on the brake hoods upright so they can breath better. I get it that being hunched over is more aero and puts more weight on the front wheel but I breath much better being more upright & not convinced super low bars are the ticket.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Forecast is rain for Thursday and Sunday...


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Yes please


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Whatever the reason she, and Caroline Bohe look beautifully composed when they're racing.


I agree about Caroline Bohe - she's going to be one to watch. I think she and Terpstra really mesh on the Ghost team and have pushed each other.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

roth88 said:


> I agree about Caroline Bohe - she's going to be one to watch. I think she and Terpstra really mesh on the Ghost team and have pushed each other.


Ive ridden with the Ghost ladies a few times. Hard to tell Carline and Anne apart on the bike. They wear different colour helmet now thankfully. Caroline was Mona Mitterwallners competition last year. She's finsding her feet nicely and I expect some good races from her next season


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I wish the Ghost riders would wear proper National champions jerseys...instead of the ones they actually wear. Anne Terpstra's looks more like the GB champion, rather than the Netherlands.....Even the Danish one Caroline wears is an apology for a national champion jersey. As bad as the UAE team's national jerseys.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Brad said:


> She does sit more upright on her bike than most and with a lower saddle than most. Her saddle to bar position it level and this allows her to sight the trail further ahead and also makes it easier to look over her shoulders more easily to keep an eye on the opposition. Pauline sits similarly but further back on the bike.
> Limb length and proportions could play a role as well as Jenny doing almost all of her training on her MTB (She also has a Hakka). Whatever the reason she, and Caroline Bohe look beautifully composed when they're racing.


Bohe did not look anywhere as poised as Jenny in snowshoe.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> I wish the Ghost riders would wear proper National champions jerseys...instead of the ones they actually wear. Anne Terpstra's looks more like the GB champion, rather than the Netherlands.....Even the Danish one Caroline wears is an apology for a national champion jersey. As bad as the UAE team's national jerseys.


The USA national champs kit was atrocious. Why couldn't it just be a sleeve like on the DH side.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

National champion jersey are approved by the federation. The team submits a design but the federations have final say.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

teleken said:


> As posted before Jenny has always had a more upright position looking much more relaxed than others even though she is crushing it.
> I've always found it interesting late in races how comments are that riders sitting up are tired and should be hunched over but in road racing on big climbs riders tend to be on the brake hoods upright so they can breath better. I get it that being hunched over is more aero and puts more weight on the front wheel but I breath much better being more upright & not convinced super low bars are the ticket.


Part of Jenny’s position is sponsor equipment. She is on Raceface and using the Next SL bars. They are sweet bar, light and very compliant but they have a lot of rise to them. And drop stems don’t exist in 35mm clamp.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> I wish the Ghost riders would wear proper National champions jerseys...instead of the ones they actually wear. Anne Terpstra's looks more like the GB champion, rather than the Netherlands.....Even the Danish one Caroline wears is an apology for a national champion jersey. As bad as the UAE team's national jerseys.


As LMN said, the jerseys have to be approved by the National Federation, and I believe they submit a template of sorts before the season. For example the National Champ Jersey for NZ is white with a black fern, even though some teams/individuals would prefer the black with white fern, however that is the kit of the National team).

With regards Terpstra's jersey, an argument could be made that her jersey looks more like the Dutch flag than the GB kit looks like the union jack.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

A couple of years ago DH racers were skipping nationals because their team wanted them in the team jersey. This is why DH national champs are now on the sleeves.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

LMN said:


> Part of Jenny’s position is sponsor equipment. She is on Raceface and using the Next SL bars. They are sweet bar, light and very compliant but they have a lot of rise to them. And drop stems don’t exist in 35mm clamp.


The Raceface Aeffect 35 stem is 6 deg. If you're stuck with RF products, that's the most drop you'll get. I have a Bontrager Kovee Pro 35 (13 deg) on my Trek Procaliber.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

So did Nino travel to Canada or did he fly back to Europe?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> As LMN said, the jerseys have to be approved by the National Federation, and I believe they submit a template of sorts before the season. For example the National Champ Jersey for NZ is white with a black fern, even though some teams/individuals would prefer the black with white fern, however that is the kit of the National team).
> 
> With regards Terpstra's jersey, an argument could be made that her jersey looks more like the Dutch flag than the GB kit looks like the union jack.


Terpstra has the Dutch flag on her kit. This is quite different from the Union Jack 
Bohe has the Danish flag on her kit.

So not sure where the problem is?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> As LMN said, the jerseys have to be approved by the National Federation, and I believe they submit a template of sorts before the season. For example the National Champ Jersey for NZ is white with a black fern, even though some teams/individuals would prefer the black with white fern, however that is the kit of the National team).
> 
> With regards Terpstra's jersey, an argument could be made that her jersey looks more like the Dutch flag than the GB kit looks like the union jack.


Yes, I know the regs, and I recall other occasions of jerseys and George Bennett caused uproar with his reverse NZ jersey. However Anne Tauber, Milan Vader & MvdP have all worn a proper Dutch National champion jersey. Sadly, some teams, among them Ghost & UAE, who only allow a small section of the jersey to denote a national champion.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

le_pedal said:


> So did Nino travel to Canada or did he fly back to Europe?


He did travel to Canada per social media...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> He did travel to Canada per social media...


He would travel with the team. Whether he races or not remains to be seen. He may skip th XCC to allow more recovery time but he’ll have to ride the course to gauge whether he’s fine to race or not. We’ll only know for sure if he announces he’s not racing


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Is there a calculator or some trick to figuring out who is still in contention for the overall (like if Mitterwallner takes 1st in MSA and Terpstra 7th, then the rankings go to *__ *and Terpstra will need place *_* in Val di Sole)? Of course you can do it manually, but it would be nice to have a little calculator to run a lot of different combos...


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> He would travel with the team. Whether he races or not remains to be seen. He may skip th XCC to allow more recovery time but he’ll have to ride the course to gauge whether he’s fine to race or not. We’ll only know for sure if he announces he’s not racing


How much do you think he'll weigh "who's racing?" If he's feeling OK to race (but not perfect), but Fluck and some other people decide to sit it out...maybe he races. BUT, if everyone shows and he's not 100%, maybe he sits it out to get an extra bit of recovery...and, perhaps equally important for him, a bit of rest.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

smartyiak said:


> How much do you think he'll weigh "who's racing?" If he's feeling OK to race (but not perfect), but Fluck and some other people decide to sit it out...maybe he races. BUT, if everyone shows and he's not 100%, maybe he sits it out to get an extra bit of recovery...and, perhaps equally important for him, a bit of rest.


I think Flueckiger has already declared that he’s not racing at MSA. I really can’t see Nino racing unless he’s certain that he can win.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

LMN said:


> Part of Jenny’s position is sponsor equipment. She is on Raceface and using the Next SL bars. They are sweet bar, light and very compliant but they have a lot of rise to them. And drop stems don’t exist in 35mm clamp.


It doesnt look like they have much rise.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

GSPChilliwack said:


> I think Flueckiger has already declared that he’s not racing at MSA. I really can’t see Nino racing unless he’s certain that he can win.


Nino is still the WC overall leader. I'm not sure how important that title is to him, but he's likely to lose the lead if he's not able to race MSA.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

cycloholic said:


> It doesnt look like they have much rise.


They are a 10mm rise bar. Unless RF made custom 0 bars for her. But, I am pretty sure under 03 it says 5up 8 back 10mm rise


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

cycloholic said:


> It doesnt look like they have much rise.
> View attachment 1994029


Where did you find that picture? Are the more? I'd like to see Jenny's bike walk-around.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

le_pedal said:


> Where did you find that picture? Are the more? I'd like to see Jenny's bike walk-around.











Jenny Rissveds' Ibis Exie in detail


Team 31 led by Sweden's Jenny Rissveds has had a major material change for the new season.




en.brujulabike.com


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

cassieno said:


> They are a 10mm rise bar. Unless RF made custom 0 bars for her. But, I am pretty sure under 03 it says 5up 8 back 10mm rise


With a 35mm clamp, a 10mm rise isn't much more than just off-setting the ends within that 35mm diameter, which is how this looks...









That said, you might be right about being custom for JR.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Eric F said:


> Nino is still the WC overall leader. I'm not sure how important that title is to him, but he's likely to lose the lead if he's not able to race MSA.


I'd think the ONLY thing that matters is being the SOLE record holder. Somewhere in the distance is Rainbow stripes...and far behind that: the overall. At least, if I were him, that's how I'd think of it.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good on Sam & Ben


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Eric F said:


> With a 35mm clamp, a 10mm rise isn't much more than just off-setting the ends within that 35mm diameter, which is how this looks...
> View attachment 1994040
> 
> 
> That said, you might be right about being custom for JR.


The bars have a 5 degree rise to them. They do noticeably bring up the front end.

I did some testing of the protypes of those bars. Really liked the feel of them but the rise brought me up higher than I wanted. I tried rolling them but the flex isn’t designed for them to be rolled. I really like them on my trail bike


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## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

NordieBoy said:


> Good on Sam & Ben


Wasn't a bad training ride for Sam. We went to bed when Evie made it to half a lap in front. We'll probably watch the replay tonight. Mrs George doesn't know about the place getters, there has been zero coverage of MTB in the news this morning.

Reckon Evie was a bit embarrassed about calling it her home track? You could have been competitive on a gravel bike


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> The bars have a 5 degree rise to them. They do noticeably bring up the front end.
> 
> I did some testing of the protypes of those bars. Really liked the feel of them but the rise brought me up higher than I wanted. I tried rolling them but the flex isn’t designed for them to be rolled. I really like them on my trail bike


Certainly she didn’t change her entire riding position because her bars have a 5 rise. That’s nuts. She can get a stem that suits her, she’s a pro. She’d ride the same on any sponsor bike wouldn’t she? I watched the 2016 Olympics just to see how she road 6 years ago, and it’s similar and I think she had 27,5 wheels and was on a Scott.
Can’t it just be she wants to ride more upright?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

yip those bars have a grip area centre line that is offset 10mm above the centre line of the 35mm clamp area. The grip area is 25mm diameter, the clamp area is 35mm so the 10mm difference to achieve a flat top is the rise.
Then the ends also have a 5 degree rise above the raised centre line which increases the effective rise of the grips. They really do raise your seated position. I prefer the new Giant Contact XC 35mm carbon bar that's speced on the new Anthem Advanced Carbon1 bike. I like the RF Next SL but I need a stem with -20degree rise in 35mm clamp diameter and I don't think those exist anywhere.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Cardy George said:


> Wasn't a bad training ride for Sam. We went to bed when Evie made it to half a lap in front. We'll probably watch the replay tonight. Mrs George doesn't know about the place getters, there has been zero coverage of MTB in the news this morning.
> 
> Reckon Evie was a bit embarrassed about calling it her home track? You could have been competitive on a gravel bike


I'm seen Nippers and Sprogs courses more technical than the CWG XCO track


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Certainly she didn’t change her entire riding position because her bars have a 5 rise. That’s nuts. She can get a stem that suits her, she’s a pro. She’d ride the same on any sponsor bike wouldn’t she? I watched the 2016 Olympics just to see how she road 6 years ago, and it’s similar and I think she had 27,5 wheels and was on a Scott.
> Can’t it just be she wants to ride more upright?


Even her Cape Epic winning bike had a more upright position but not as upright as she is seated now.


https://www.sportzpics.co.za/image/I0000Q2MqU7CkP00























The photos are taken at slightly different angles but it is apparent she sits more upright based on the the grips position in space relative to the saddle


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Certainly she didn’t change her entire riding position because her bars have a 5 rise. That’s nuts. She can get a stem that suits her, she’s a pro. She’d ride the same on any sponsor bike wouldn’t she? I watched the 2016 Olympics just to see how she road 6 years ago, and it’s similar and I think she had 27,5 wheels and was on a Scott.
> Can’t it just be she wants to ride more upright?


Not arguing what position she prefers or not. Or what position is best. Jenny is Olympic champion And knows much more about to racing a bike fast than I do.

But a low front end isn’t an option with those bar and stem combination. And the reality of being a Pro is you are sometimes limited by your sponsors equipment options. RF does offer a lower option in 32mm clamp but it is a bit heavier and not as compliant as those next sl bars.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> I'm seen Nippers and Sprogs courses more technical than the CWG XCO track


Agree. The course is a bit limited. Admittedly they have quite a range of athlete levels to cater for in general at the Comm Games. Though many British XC courses look very tame on YT etc. I'm sure there are more gnarly ones, I just haven't seen any.

Shame Cooper wasn't there, could have been a Kiwi One, Two, Three.

Les Gets doesn't exactly suit Gaze, but it's great to see his continued building form.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Brad said:


> yip those bars have a grip area centre line that is offset 10mm above the centre line of the 35mm clamp area. The grip area is 25mm diameter, the clamp area is 35mm so the 10mm difference to achieve a flat top is the rise.
> Then the ends also have a 5 degree rise above the raised centre line which increases the effective rise of the grips. They really do raise your seated position. I prefer the new Giant Contact XC 35mm carbon bar that's speced on the new Anthem Advanced Carbon1 bike. I like the RF Next SL but I need a stem with -20degree rise in 35mm clamp diameter and I don't think those exist anywhere.


I have a Bontrager Kovee XXX 35 bar with a Bontrager -13deg stem on my HT. It's the only -13deg stem I've found for 35.


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## AnthemRider (Feb 7, 2007)

cassieno said:


> They are a 10mm rise bar. Unless RF made custom 0 bars for her. But, I am pretty sure under 03 it says 5up 8 back 10mm rise


I have a RF Next SL, with 5mm rise.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Eric F said:


> I have a Bontrager Kovee XXX 35 bar with a Bontrager -13deg stem on my HT. It's the only -13deg stem I've found for 35.


i'll look into that combo thanks


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Brad said:


> i'll look into that combo thanks


The bar is very light (135g, I think), which is a nice bonus. Stem is the Bontrager Kovee Pro 35. I also have a Raceface Aeffect 35 stem (6deg), but I prefer the 13deg drop of the Bontrager.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Brad said:


> Even her Cape Epic winning bike had a more upright position but not as upright as she is seated now.
> 
> 
> https://www.sportzpics.co.za/image/I0000Q2MqU7CkP00
> ...


That second photograph is about as bad as it gets in terms of determining the relative position of one object (ends of handlebars) vs another (saddle). 

The optical distortion caused by an off-nadir image of two points in different planes is literally why the process of orthorectification exists. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cassieno said:


> Jenny Rissveds' Ibis Exie in detail
> 
> 
> Team 31 led by Sweden's Jenny Rissveds has had a major material change for the new season.
> ...


Interesting to see she's still rockin' a Specialized S-Works Power With Mirror Saddle.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Not arguing what position she prefers or not. Or what position is best. Jenny is Olympic champion And knows much more about to racing a bike fast than I do.
> 
> But a low front end isn’t an option with those bar and stem combination. And the reality of being a Pro is you are sometimes limited by your sponsors equipment options. RF does offer a lower option in 32mm clamp but it is a bit heavier and not as compliant as those next sl bars.


I'd have to believe she'd just get another stem if she needed a lower front end? Anton Cooper and a few others stick that ugly Darimo stem on, not sponsor correct at all. 

Not worth arguing about, but I can't imagine a pro at her level just living with a higher than preferred front end because RF doesn't make the right stem or bars. But what do I know. Seems most all XC pros have a weird stem to get their bars just right. 

Of course we're just over thinking it most likely. She got her new bike, and that's where she liked it, and she'd probably roll her eyes at a bunch of people even noticing it LOL.

She's my pick for the world champs though.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Augustus-G said:


> Interesting to see she's still rockin' a Specialized S-Works Power With Mirror Saddle.


It's cause it's oh so comfy. That said, I didn't really like it on my mountain bike, but it worked great on my trainer.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I'd have to believe she'd just get another stem if she needed a lower front end? Anton Cooper and a few others stick that ugly Darimo stem on, not sponsor correct at all.
> 
> Not worth arguing about, but I can't imagine a pro at her level just living with a higher than preferred front end because RF doesn't make the right stem or bars. But what do I know. Seems most all XC pros have a weird stem to get their bars just right.
> 
> ...


The old Jenny might have fretted over the last detail (she was quite intense pre 2018) but the new Jenny is more the roll with it type. If having the bars a few mm higher isn't slowing her down I don't see her putting in special requests to Race Face for custom bars and stems. Instead she's more the thank you , hug everybody, walk abut with humility and break every mans hearts at Race Face kind of Jenny


----------



## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

Does she really use that bell for passing?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> That second photograph is about as bad as it gets in terms of determining the relative position of one object (ends of handlebars) vs another (saddle).
> 
> The optical distortion caused by an off-nadir image of two points in different planes is literally why the process of orthorectification exists.
> 
> ...


I hear you and acknowledged that the differing angles are not ideal. It is however apparent that the ends of the bars on the Exie are slightly higher.
Isn't orthorectification a GIS mapping tool? How would one use this to correct to images not taken with a common reference point?


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> I'm seen Nippers and Sprogs courses more technical than the CWG XCO track


I hope to actually see the full race footage one day. Haven't even seen highlights here. Sky TV can stick their subscriptions up their collective arses.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I'd have to believe she'd just get another stem if she needed a lower front end? Anton Cooper and a few others stick that ugly Darimo stem on, not sponsor correct at all.
> 
> Not worth arguing about, but I can't imagine a pro at her level just living with a higher than preferred front end because RF doesn't make the right stem or bars. But what do I know. Seems most all XC pros have a weird stem to get their bars just right.
> 
> ...


The ability to substitute non-sponsor correct product is actually very rare and exceptions are made in very rare cases. That is the reality of being a pro.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> I hope to actually see the full race footage one day. Haven't even seen highlights here. Sky TV can stick their subscriptions up their collective arses.


I watched both live on super sport which receives its broadcast from eurosport


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Looks like Nino is on trail in MSA


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Cardy George said:


> Does she really use that bell for passing?


She used one on some of the cape epic stages in 2017. Starting in A batch it’s sorely needed. I’m guessing it’s on the bike for course practice to warn riders hanging around the techy features that a rider is coming through. Be a good laugh if she used in the race 😂


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Cardy George said:


> Does she really use that bell for passing?


Well, in Sweden you should have a bell and reflectors when riding, it's not unusual that many riders forgot or bored to remove them! Maybe she just doesn't really bothered of the extra 10g weight.


----------



## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

Brad said:


> yip those bars have a grip area centre line that is offset 10mm above the centre line of the 35mm clamp area. The grip area is 25mm diameter, the clamp area is 35mm so the 10mm difference to achieve a flat top is the rise.
> Then the ends also have a 5 degree rise above the raised centre line which increases the effective rise of the grips. They really do raise your seated position. I prefer the new Giant Contact XC 35mm carbon bar that's speced on the new Anthem Advanced Carbon1 bike. I like the RF Next SL but I need a stem with -20degree rise in 35mm clamp diameter and I don't think those exist anywhere.





https://www.bike24.com/p2272562.html



KCNC makes a 35mm with -17 and -25.


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

LMN said:


> The ability to substitute non-sponsor correct product is actually very rare and exceptions are made in very rare cases. That is the reality of being a pro.


Would be really interesting to know what was the negotiation for Nino’s (and the rest of the Scott-SRAM men, it looks like) dropper. Probably helps they can put the silver collar on and the remote is hidden behind the brake lever, but still.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Unless he is running a different dropper in the races it looks like an axs reverb. But that's in "bike check" posts. I haven't looked that closely when he is actually on the bike.

Edit: looks like Lars is also running an axs dropper.

And so is KC. Brad Copeland on Instagram: "Nice way to break in the new bike 🥴 Congratulations to the survivors. #funisfast #mudisnast @scottmtbracing | 🎥: the definition of @raineduponmedia 💧"

Edit2. Did some more stalking on Instagram and Nino's dropper type seems to be all over the place. Sometimes it's AXS (battery) sometimes it's not. Most of the pre-ride stuff it seems to be an AXS dropper, but then much harder to tell, but probably not an AXS in the race.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

RexRacerX said:


> Would be really interesting to know what was the negotiation for Nino’s (and the rest of the Scott-SRAM men, it looks like) dropper. Probably helps they can put the silver collar on and the remote is hidden behind the brake lever, but still.


They are very careful to make sure the bike is 
Photographed with an AXS dropper.

That team also has enough pull that if they decide that on special occasions they are going to use something else they can get away with it. But it has to be something small that isn’t a big competitor.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Unless he is running a different dropper in the races it looks like an axs reverb. But that's in "bike check" posts. I haven't looked that closely when he is actually on the bike.
> 
> Edit: looks like Lars is also running an axs dropper.
> 
> ...


LMN can correct me if I'm wrong, but big teams with bigger budgets have extra bikes with correct sponsors equipment and those are usually the one's that get media coverage. The bikes that get between the tapes are often one off. That's why on instances Nino's bike is with and without the Quarq prototype PM. I've seen this happen a lot with Scott-SRAM.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

NordieBoy said:


> I hope to actually see the full race footage one day. Haven't even seen highlights here. Sky TV can stick their subscriptions up their collective arses.


Sky Sports is the absolute effing worst. I dread them getting the XCO next year and their complete disdain for their users and lack of on demand viewing, crappy feed choices, and overly expensive sub's to cover all the crappy I don't watch.

/Rant


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

cassieno said:


> Unless he is running a different dropper in the races it looks like an axs reverb. But that's in "bike check" posts. I haven't looked that closely when he is actually on the bike.
> 
> Edit: looks like Lars is also running an axs dropper.
> 
> ...


He races with a Yep Components Podlio (sp?) and Joystick remote.

You're right they're careful to make it look AXS-ish, and photograph with the AXS etc


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Changes to MSA look good.

I know a lot of people are disappiont Beatrice isn't in it, but on modern bikes Beatrice isn't the beast it was. When we riding down it on 26inch hardtails with 80mm forks, 71HA, 600mm bars, and 2.1 tires it was a difference maker!! On modern bikes just about everybody rides it at the same speed and it isn't really that hard.

I am also a big fan of the removal of the massive drop. 8ft drops are too big to repeatable done in race conditions on an XC bike.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

The biggest problem with the Reverb AXS is that it’s a brick. The C1 Reverb is around 520gr with remote while the axs isn’t even close to the without it’s battery let alone the remote. For the price it’s a hard sell whe I can get 3 C1s for the same money. 
I can’t blame Nino for wanting to race with a lighter dropper but why a non sponsor correct product?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Changes to MSA look good.
> 
> I know a lot of people are disappiont Beatrice isn't in it, but on modern bikes Beatrice isn't the beast it was. When we riding down it on 26inch hardtails with 80mm forks, 71HA, 600mm bars, and 2.1 tires it was a difference maker!! On modern bikes just about everybody rides it at the same speed and it isn't really that hard.
> 
> I am also a big fan of the removal of the massive drop. 8ft drops are too big to repeatable done in race conditions on an XC bike.


Especially on laps 6,7 and 8


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> The biggest problem with the Reverb AXS is that it’s a brick. The C1 Reverb is around 520gr with remote while the axs isn’t even close to the without it’s battery let alone the remote. For the price it’s a hard sell whe I can get 3 C1s for the same money.
> I can’t blame Nino for wanting to race with a lighter dropper but why a non sponsor correct product?


The Podlio is mega light though isn't it. Among lightest on the market?

Although it might be just to support Swiss, or that he REALLY likes the Joystick remote.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

The coverage (generally from above) really does not do the difficulty of those climbing sections justice!


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

For Mont St. Anne, I'm hoping Nino takes the win (I want to see him wrap up that record already) and then ideally Neff or Mitterwallner on the women's side (specifically because I like two different dynamics: the returning champion in need of a new win and the rookie on the verge). If Nino doesn't take it, I hope Dascalu does.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> The Podlio is mega light though isn't it. Among lightest on the market?
> 
> Although it might be just to support Swiss, or that he REALLY likes the Joystick remote.


I am wondering if its a company he has a stake in and therefore gets a dispensation.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> I am wondering if its a company he has a stake in and therefore gets a dispensation.


Ah, I see what you're saying. 

Would definitely make sense. Though you'd think they'd advertise that he was a stake holder or investor or whatever, even if they didn't advertise that he rode their equipment on race day 🤷‍♂️.


----------



## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Wait, they removed Beatrice from the MSA course?


----------



## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cassieno said:


> It's cause it's oh so comfy.


I know, I have Power Saddles of various levels on 3 of my bikes.


----------



## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> Sky Sports is the absolute effing worst. I dread them getting the XCO next year and their complete disdain for their users and lack of on demand viewing, crappy feed choices, and overly expensive sub's to cover all the crappy I don't watch.
> 
> /Rant


You probably don't want to know we watched start to finish on free to air then.......


----------



## donR (11 mo ago)

Are people watching the XC live feeds on Red Bull TV or somewhere else? I notice they have re-runs on there but not sure where people are watching live?


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

donR said:


> Are people watching the XC live feeds on Red Bull TV or somewhere else? I notice they have re-runs on there but not sure where people are watching live?


Watching live on redbull.tv


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

donR said:


> Are people watching the XC live feeds on Red Bull TV or somewhere else? I notice they have re-runs on there but not sure where people are watching live?


World Cup on redbull. Comm Games on sky 😭


----------



## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Cardy George said:


> You probably don't want to know we watched start to finish on free to air then.......


I wonder, I don't know how big the Comm games is in NZ...but it seems that the only countries _really _interested is us and the UK. I mean the OZ media seems to think the Comm games is as big if not bigger than the Olympics...because, well we win a lot... Canada seem to be, well if we have nothing better to do we might show up. So don't know how big a deal it is in NZ, but it sure is a big deal here.

Would have loved to see how hometown boy Sam Fox went without the flat, still better than the Scottish guy and his derailleur removal technique.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

mik_git said:


> I wonder, I don't know how big the Comm games is in NZ...but it seems that the only countries _really _interested is us and the UK. I mean the OZ media seems to think the Comm games is as big if not bigger than the Olympics...because, well we win a lot... Canada seem to be, well if we have nothing better to do we might show up. So don't know how big a deal it is in NZ, but it sure is a big deal here.
> 
> Would have loved to see how hometown boy Sam Fox went without the flat, still better than the Scottish guy and his derailleur removal technique.


It's a big deal in NZ. We're currently on track for our best ever which would be pretty awesome. 

Sky got the rights, which isn't unusual, and I paid the $ for the Comm Games package. Then you find you can't choose to watch the events when you want and remember that they don't care about cycling fans or fans of anything other than Rugby and Cricket 🤬.


----------



## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

wonder if you can log into 7+, it probably geo restricted, but you could always try, it may not be for NZ

Also yeah, that is what I figured, England, NZ and OZ, Comm games is a big thing...I just wasnt sure for NZ)...rest of the world/commonwealth...meh. Actually, maybe SA? Not sure for them either... then again thats getting to most of the bigger nations...


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

For some sports, the Commonwealth Games are the pinnacle, for others they're not. However, they can be a launchpad for a career, and gain valuable experience of a 'big' event in a games village, etc And the crowds come out and support all events, so it feels bigger than it probably is.

As for the XCO race, well it's not the greatest course I've ever seen; not very technical, and not really much proper climbs - but this is quite common for the Commonwealth Games. And the commentary on the BBC wasn't great, again - with them using the 'world feed' and not their own commentators. Unlike the road/track events. Whilst Ned is known for road racing, he did okay, but he needed a XCO expert alongside him - not Rochelle Gilmore, who knows diddly squat about MTB.
Once again, MTB getting a raw deal from the media in the UK, despite having World & Olympic champions this hasn't changed. And an interesting interview from Evie about trying to get more youngsters into MTB, as it's a 'cool sport'.


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> I am wondering if its a company he has a stake in and therefore gets a dispensation.


He was racing it from last year as a prototype and, as LMN said, they are super careful the bike doesn’t get photographed without the AXS dropper (except a recent Instagram post by adri… with the silhouette of the new bike clearly missing AXS dropper) and neither Nino nor even Yep make direct mention of the use. I’d say the motivation is most probably the simple explanation that it weighs about half of the AXS. Still, it’s interesting that Kate isn’t using the podio. Maybe she wants more drop than 80 mm. Maybe she doesn’t get along with the Joystick. Maybe you have to be Swiss for SRAM to say OK. Probably the last one, because Switzerland.


----------



## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

Exmuhle said:


> And the commentary on the BBC wasn't great, again - with them using the 'world feed' and not their own commentators. Unlike the road/track events. Whilst Ned is known for road racing, he did okay, but he needed a XCO expert alongside him - not Rochelle Gilmore, who knows diddly squat about MTB.


The Aussie commentators weren't much better. At one point there was a discussion about how everyone was on a FS because of that drop and how rough the course was.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

my favorite random tech thing nowadays is short track bars. People are putting on 600mm bars for the tight group racing of short tracks


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Really?! Never noticed that!! Interesting!


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

LMN said:


> my favorite random tech thing nowadays is short track bars. People are putting on 600mm bars for the tight group racing of short tracks


Makes sense...40 racers squeezing into a space more fir for road bikes than MTB's. Makes you wonder why we don't see that many crashes in XCO. My guess is they do back off and do not risk crashing and losing the XCO race which caps the weekend festivities.


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## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

carlostruco said:


> Makes sense...40 racers squeezing into a space more fir for road bikes than MTB's. Makes you wonder why we don't see that many crashes in XCO. My guess is they do back off and do not risk crashing and losing the XCO race which caps the weekend festivities.


Plus any position lost at the start is going to be harder to make up in a short 20 minute race. In XCO you have time to work your way back up the field, where Short track once your out of the front group it’s hard to come back.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> my favorite random tech thing nowadays is short track bars. People are putting on 600mm bars for the tight group racing of short tracks


Please inform Nino….


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

XCC start list is out. Couple of friends from Latin America made the list.


----------



## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

LMN said:


> my favorite random tech thing nowadays is short track bars. People are putting on 600mm bars for the tight group racing of short tracks


I have some narrow NOS Easton carbon bars in the garage. Their value has probably gone up 5 or 10 bucks now! 

I’m assuming bars can be changed for the XCO race? Is it just the frame that needs to be consistent between the two events?


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Vlad Dascalu out of the XCC


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

As an european i hate these us races, hope there's not more of these next year, short track is beginning at 00:30...


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Raikzz said:


> As an european i hate these us races, hope there's not more of these next year, short track is beginning at 00:30...


🙃

Love a closer time zone!

To be honest I don't mind, I mostly watch them on demand on the trainer. I very much hope they add more southern hemisphere races though.

America is probably the only market worth pursuing/with the funds to bring the show to them. Australia and New Zealand have great courses and obviously terrific mountain biking strength, but they have to either make the season crazy long, or come down in winter.


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Please inform Nino….


It was his pedal, apparently.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> As an european i hate these us races, hope there's not more of these next year, short track is beginning at 00:30...


sort of how is North Americans feel about the European rounds.

rumoured to be three coming in the future. Probably 2024 not 2023


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Blevins out with C19


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

LMN said:


> sort of how is North Americans feel about the European rounds.
> 
> rumoured to be three coming in the future. Probably 2024 not 2023


Where did you hear that? I've heard grumbling that the schedule for 2023 isn't out yet, which makes it hard for teams to plan, but haven't heard any rumors about locations.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Brad said:


> Blevins out with C19


Fack! I had a bet with a friend he would win!!!


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

As an American, I also hate having to wake up at 5am to watch European races and missing a good morning of riding out with the sun and almost no traffic...


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

carlostruco said:


> Fack! I had a bet with a friend he would win!!!


Oh man, that sucks. I was really curious to see how he did a week later. The weird part now is some of these people only test positive, they don't feel bad and would race normally, but have to go home.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Oh man, that sucks. I was really curious to see how he did a week later. The weird part now is some of these people only test positive, they don't feel bad and would race normally, but have to go home.


He mentioned he felt bad this morning.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well Jenny was also out with a sore throat. Let’s hope it’s just that and it clears by Sunday


----------



## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

My legs really hurt just watching all that pedalling on grass.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> Well Jenny was also out with a sore throat. Let’s hope it’s just that and it clears by Sunday


Well yes, but the sore throat sets the alarms off; that's how my Covid started in early July.....Lets hope it's not.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It was some exciting racing in the Short Track; I thought Jolanda was smart, and stayed out of trouble, until she needed to hit the front. The men surely owe Luca a weissbier & bratwurst for doing all the work on the front.....and another XCC win for Colombo.
Both Short Track World Cups will be decided at the final round in Val di Sole; you can't ask for much more than that.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Well yes, but the sore throat sets the alarms off; that's how my Covid started in early July.....Lets hope it's not.


She’ll probably have a test result by now and nothing has been posted so I’m assuming it’ll blow over by tomorrow and it’s not the C19


----------



## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

roth88 said:


> For Mont St. Anne, I'm hoping Nino takes the win (I want to see him wrap up that record already) and then ideally Neff or Mitterwallner on the women's side (specifically because I like two different dynamics: the returning champion in need of a new win and the rookie on the verge). If Nino doesn't take it, I hope Dascalu does.


It'll be tough for Schurter, I think... he beat himself up pretty damn good in his Snowshoe crash. The short track didn't look like it was being nice to him on Friday. Nobody is going to give him any favors at Les Gets either.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Joe Handlebar said:


> It'll be tough for Schurter, I think... he beat himself up pretty damn good in his Snowshoe crash. The short track didn't look like it was being nice to him on Friday. Nobody is going to give him any favors at Les Gets either.


The full results from the short track races are here:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/xcc-short-track-results-from-the-mont-sainte-anne-xc-world-cup-2022.html



Nino Schurter was 32nd in the Mont St Anne XCC, 57 seconds down on the winner for a 24 minute duration race. If he drops similar amounts of time over the longer XCO race on Sunday as that he will be way behind, maybe not in the top 20 even, or a DNF.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Where did you hear that? I've heard grumbling that the schedule for 2023 isn't out yet, which makes it hard for teams to plan, but haven't heard any rumors about locations.


Often a rough schedule isn’t released to teams until worlds. I have heard so many different tenative schedules from people normally in the know that I don’t know who to trust.

the latest I have heard is that the North American rounds are in late September next year.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think that's the best time for the NA rounds; after the Worlds and with the World Cup still up for grabs. I don't know how true it is, but I recall reading that Fayettville is interested in hosting a MTB World Cup; they host a US MTB race in spring time - and hosted the CX Worlds, and a CX World Cup. There seems to be some decent backing for races there, I think Walmart are based nearby.


----------



## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

WR304 said:


> The full results from the short track races are here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


is it possible he doesnt care about short track and is saving himself? and protecring his beat up shoulder?

Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

cmg said:


> is it possible he doesnt care about short track and is saving himself? and protecring his beat up shoulder?
> 
> Sent from my SM-A515F using Tapatalk


If he doesn’t care why even do it? Why not just take the race off and go for xco a couple days later?


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Picks for tomorrow?

Women: Anne Terpstra for the win. Although if it rains, like predicted, then Neff has a really good shot.

Men: Alan Hartherly.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Picks for tomorrow?
> 
> Women: Anne Terpstra for the win. Although if it rains, like predicted, then Neff has a really good shot.
> 
> Men: Alan Hartherly.


I'd ditto that.
If Rissveds is racing I'd give her the nod over Neff, She's hungry for a win and she'll be well rested


----------



## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I’m going to assume Rissveds will have lost her edge if she shows: 

I’ll go with Keller. 

Men: I’m going with Colombo for the double.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Rissveds confirms she won't be racing


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Men: I’m going with Colombo for the double.


Strong pick. Super form last week and Friday.


----------



## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Exmuhle said:


> There seems to be some decent backing for races there, I think Walmart are based nearby.


Yes. The Waltons, founders of Walmart and mega rich, are in Bentonville, just outside of Fayetteville. They are big into bikes and have invested heavily in MTB and other cycling infrastructure and events in the region.


----------



## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Brad said:


> Rissveds confirms she won't be racing


Bummer that she and a lot of the other top riders aren’t racing, but also a great opportunity for other riders to shine. For example Caroline Bohe looked great in the XCC. Between her and Terpstra, I think Ghost will have a good day. And on the mens side, it would be exciting if Colombo could sweep the weekend for his first XCO win (?). It’s nice to see him having a good season after all the time he lost last year for that broken pelvis.


----------



## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

FortOrdMTB said:


> If he doesn’t care why even do it? Why not just take the race off and go for xco a couple days later?


He mentioned on his IG that he just wanted to see where he was at. I guess we'll see tomorrow.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I was also picking Terpstra. Given Jolanda's race Friday I'd like to think she's on the upswing and could for sure win.

I would definitely not be unhappy to see Bohe win. She's been consistent and looks like a terrific rider and it'd be great for her to leap out of Mitterwallner's shadow.

Men's is pretty wide open. Hard to see Nino factoring unless he's making big improvements in recovery every day. I hope it's him that wins, but thin Colombo is more likely.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

I for one would love to see Emily Batty podium. Feels like she geared her form for this race, total bummer about the short track incident.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I'm picking Neff and Colombo for the win. If not, mi podium picks are:

Women: Neff, Keller, Terpstra, GG and Becca. Thrown in Kate maybe...

Men: Alan, Colombo, Carod, Valero and Bradiot. Throw in Sarrou also...


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Does anyone know why Blunk isn't racing? Unless something has happened to her since Snowshoe, it seems like it should be a no-brainer for her to be at this 2nd North American stop given her strong result last week.


----------



## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

That short track course was an embarrassment to the sport IMO. 

Doesn’t help the negativity toward our sport.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

It amazes me how one can be so much better on downhills than others, on men's field you don't see that anymore


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Tyre choices came into play today, just like in Tokyo


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> It amazes me how one can be so much better on downhills than others, on men's field you don't see that anymore


And Carod proceeds to pull 10s on the first descent.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I so wish Alan would ride his own race instead of following and have his rhythm broken over and over.


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

LMN said:


> And Carod proceeds to pull 10s on the first descent.


yeah, that aged well haha


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

MattMay said:


> I for one would love to see Emily Batty podium. Feels like she geared her form for this race, total bummer about the short track incident.


Batty might have better results if she lowered her saddle, she can't pedal through the bottom of the stroke...


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

BoyinBlue said:


> Batty might have better results if she lowered her saddle, she can't pedal through the bottom of the stroke...


I’ve noticed that a lot of the women look like they are riding bikes that are big for them. Don’t see this in the men’s field.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

A lot of female mountain bikers have their bikes set up to promote a heel up pedal stroke. It might be intentional as they generally have weaker quads than the men so this allows them to engage more muscles for better overall power. I find it strange and I don’t understand it but would like to


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Great race by Carod. Start to finish domination. He had the right tactic. Get in front and be in control of the pace and line choice. I’d love to see his race file compared to Alan’s. 
From experience, in wet conditions if you re leading youre much more composed and less likely to have an oopsie in tech sections


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Great racing today. I knew it would be Neff's day - the course and conditions (and her shape) were all in line for this. Mona's sprint was fantastic too and Carod was dominant start to finish for the men. Impressive all around.

What's going on with Emily Batty, though? That's three crashes at three races within the first 30 seconds - Leogang XCO, MSA XCC, and now MSA XCO. Bad luck or is there something that she's doing at the start that is very much not working?


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

FortOrdMTB said:


> I’ve noticed that a lot of the women look like they are riding bikes that are big for them. Don’t see this in the men’s field.


I think that's just a consequence of the minimum size you can make a 29er with a 100mm fork and the fact that the women on average are shorter than the men. No matter how short you make the seat tube and the reach, the front of the top tube is always going to be high because of the height of the wheel and fork.
I noticed particularly that when Batten and Mitterwallner got stuck on techy sections, Batten (5'8") could put her feet down and sort of run a few steps while straddling her bike and then remount, while Mitterwallner (5'2") was pretty much on her top tube when she put a foot down so she more often had to completely dismount and run next to the bike.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

Brad said:


> A lot of female mountain bikers have their bikes set up to promote a heel up pedal stroke. It might be intentional as they generally have weaker quads than the men so this allows them to engage more muscles for better overall power. I find it strange and I don’t understand it but would like to


Shouldn’t work that way. Heel up (toes down) means force goes through ball of the foot, quad dominant. Flat foot at full extension would promote gluteus/hamstring activation.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

I think Carod could have won on a hardtail today. Maybe even a singlespeed.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Hell of a ride from Nino today. Very impressive to ride back to the front of the chase. 

Carrod must have had some fantastic orange juice this morning lol. He was unstoppable! You could see a huge difference early on between his ability to clear the tech vs the riders all bumping tyres and stop/starting. 

Yet to watch the women's, but I had the Neff win spoiled so don't mind checking in lol. I haven't seen how, but based on the conditions of the men's race it does not surprise me one bit. She's amazing.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

tommyrod74 said:


> Shouldn’t work that way. Heel up (toes down) means force goes through ball of the foot, quad dominant. Flat foot at full extension would promote gluteus/hamstring activation.


hmmm I'm sure you're right but its not what I observe or what bike fitters are trying to promote. They very clearly want a higher cadence hamstring gluteus and calf enrollment with the higher saddle.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

Brad said:


> hmmm I'm sure you're right but its not what I observe or what bike fitters are trying to promote. They very clearly want a higher cadence hamstring gluteus and calf enrollment with the higher saddle.


Sitting further forward and/or higher will engage your quads more while sitting further back and lower will engage your hamstrings more. 

But as already mentioned, it's not the min. saddle height that's a constraint for the smaller athletes, rather than the front of the bike.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Lower also helps spinning a higher cadence.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

jfcb said:


> Sitting further forward and/or higher will engage your quads more while sitting further back and lower will engage your hamstrings more.
> 
> But as already mentioned, it's not the min. saddle height that's a constraint for the smaller athletes, rather than the front of the bike.


True. It’s also important to remember that the hamstrings are working here as a hip extensor (as in a squat, assisting the gluteus), not as a knee flexor. Pulling with the hamstring/calf might occur when under high effort/low cadence efforts, like a very steep climb, but is negligible to nonexistent under normal high cadence efforts. Studies have consistently shown that even elite level cyclists don’t really assist on the upstroke with the back of the leg, at best they are able to on weight the rising leg while the extending leg does all the work.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Some times how people sit on bikes can make their seat height look off. For example Emily has her saddle very far forward, always has set her bike up this way. This saddle position means that her saddle has to high to minimize knee bend at the top of the pedal stroke.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

LMN said:


> Some times how people sit on bikes can make their seat height look off. For example Emily has her saddle very far forward, always has set her bike up this way. This saddle position means that her saddle has to high to minimize knee bend at the top of the pedal stroke.


Or she moves her saddle forward to compensate for the extreme height. She looks very uncomfortable on the bike.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Carod had a 2min advantage going into the last lap...that's impressive and possibly the largest win margin on the Men's side in a long time. I feel for Ulloa...he seemed in great position for a shot at the podium. Nino, as always, even injured, is still the best. Valero need to change his turbocharged diesel engine to maybe something with gasoline or nitromethane. Colombo played a super smart race. 

Neff (like Carod) hardly labored to victory. Mona...wow!!! Great race from Batten. Becca looks like she lost her mojo. Batty can't catch a break!!!


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Kate Courtney posted on social media that her dropper stopped working after it started raining and that she had a "wild ride" after that with multiple crashes. She still finished well and looked strong. I wonder if she'll get another warning for her wheel being well over the starting line, though. She did in Snowshoe and she was certainly over the line again this time.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Kate Courtney posted on social media that her dropper stopped working after it started raining and that she had a "wild ride" after that with multiple crashes. She still finished well and looked strong. I wonder if she'll get another warning for her wheel being well over the starting line, though. She did in Snowshoe and she was certainly over the line again this time.


No warning this time. She got a fine.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

LMN said:


> No warning this time. She got a fine.


Wow, really? Any idea how much? I think a fine is better than a warning for this particular infraction - it can become a real unfair advantage.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Wow, really? Any idea how much? I think a fine is better than a warning for this particular infraction - it can become a real unfair advantage.


Probably a couple hundred Swiss francs. UCI fines are never cheap.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

roth88 said:


> Wow, really? Any idea how much? I think a fine is better than a warning for this particular infraction - it can become a real unfair advantage.


It’s so obvious that it must be purposeful. Maybe if I paid a big enough fine I could just skip the start loop?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

GSPChilliwack said:


> It’s so obvious that it must be purposeful. Maybe if I paid a big enough fine I could just skip the start loop?


I'd still lose


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

le_pedal said:


> I think Carod could have won on a hardtail today. Maybe even a singlespeed.


That was a stunningly impressive performance, for sure. He looked powerful and smooth all day.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

LMN said:


> Probably a couple hundred Swiss francs. UCI fines are never cheap.


for a team to pay that is nothing, especially when the 30cms brings an advantage

200 Swiss Francs is what going out for dinner with my missus and 2 kids costs (l live in Switzerland)


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

For both the mens and womens winners the big difference marker was their technical climbing. And that is what MSA is truely about, the climbs there are incredibly difficult to make.

Picking the right tire for the wet is also a difficult choice. Tires that excel in mud are often terrible on wet rocks. The forecaster was actually developed with MSA in mind.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> For both the mens and womens winners the big difference marker was their technical climbing. And that is what MSA is truely about, the climbs there are incredibly difficult to make.
> 
> Picking the right tire for the wet is also a difficult choice. Tires that excel in mud are often terrible on wet rocks. The forecaster was actually developed with MSA in mind.


I may have missed it. Who was running Forekasters for that race? And what size? That is one heavy tire that I would not want for punchy, techincal climbs, but I'm not a world class pro either. And maybe the advantages outweigh (pun intended) the weight penalty.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> I may have missed it. Who was running Forekasters for that race? And what size? That is one heavy tire that I would not want for punchy, techincal climbs, but I'm not a world class pro either. And maybe the advantages outweigh (pun intended) the weight penalty.


I don’t if anybody was. I was referring to the original forecaster not the new one. I think a lot of people were on dry tires, even in the mens race.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

As has been mentioned, 200 CHF is not so much for a Swiss (or any large) team.

Question 1: is 30 cm really much of an advantage?

Question 2: I get that it must not be in the rules, but is it not totally asinine that they start the race with riders over the start line?

Question 3: is there a false start rule in UCI mountain bike races? Forgive the ignorance.

Aside: I also find it is also pretty ridiculous that riders may intentionally line up over the line.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

RexRacerX said:


> As has been mentioned, 200 CHF is not so much for a Swiss (or any large) team.
> 
> Question 1: is 30 cm really much of an advantage?
> Question 2: I get that it must not be in the rules, but is it not totally asinine that they start the race with riders over the start line?
> ...


According to pinkbike those riders already received a warning last week, so they were aware that they literally crossed the line in Snowshoe. I'm pretty sure they are aware that they line up over the line: they position themself at the line during the call-up and as soon as they take away the ribbon, they make the move to be in advance of the person next to them. 
Pinkbike also mentions: _The closest infringement to this would be "rider failing to respect the rules for the start" which carries a 100CHF fine. _
Probably if the false start is so obvious, the race comissaire could still disqualify the rider who caused the false start.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ymw


RexRacerX said:


> As has been mentioned, 200 CHF is not so much for a Swiss (or any large) team.
> 
> Question 1: is 30 cm really much of an advantage?
> 
> ...





RexRacerX said:


> As has been mentioned, 200 CHF is not so much for a Swiss (or any large) team.
> 
> Question 1: is 30 cm really much of an advantage?
> 
> ...


30cm isn’t really much/any of an advantage. And in This case the rider who put their wheel in front of the line actually had a mediocre start.

But rules are rules and if Vos is DQ for 5 seconds of puppy paws then starting in front of the start line should be treated the same.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

LMN said:


> But rules are rules and if Vos is DQ for 5 seconds of puppy paws then starting in front of the start line should be treated the same.


Not familiar with the reference. Does this mean a false start = DQ, like in athletics?

Thanks for the replies. (Rereading my post I should clarify that those questions were not sarcastic.)

edit: if false start is indeed DQ, then totally agree that being over the line at the gun should also be DQ. Completely stupid to give a warning and a fine. But governing bodies gonna govern badly.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

The rules refer to the rider being “on the line”. IME this refers to the forward most part of the bike incontact with the ground must be on or behind the line. Our commissaries will walk over to you and push you back till the tyre is on the line. I noticed at snowshoe Kate and Yana were over and I expected the commissaire to push them back before the gun


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> For both the mens and womens winners the big difference marker was their technical climbing. And that is what MSA is truely about, the climbs there are incredibly difficult to make.
> 
> Picking the right tire for the wet is also a difficult choice. Tires that excel in mud are often terrible on wet rocks. The forecaster was actually developed with MSA in mind.



The rider first into the singketrack dictates the pace and line. At MSA this looks to be the deciding factor when it’s wet. Dictate the pace the line and you have more overall control of your own physiology but can more put stress into the following riders through just being a little unpredictable.
Tyre choice was also key. Semislicks were not the tyre to have. Anne Terpstra, Alan H and a few others discovered this. Some could deal with it while others struggled.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Brad said:


> The rider first into the singketrack dictates the pace and line. At MSA this looks to be the deciding factor when it’s wet. Dictate the pace the line and you have more overall control of your own physiology but can more put stress into the following riders through just being a little unpredictable.
> Tyre choice was also key. Semislicks were not the tyre to have. Anne Terpstra, Alan H and a few others discovered this. Some could deal with it while others struggled.


I'd say Jolanda had a semislick tire on the front...and rear. That racer has skills for days.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

RexRacerX said:


> Not familiar with the reference. Does this mean a false start = DQ, like in athletics?


The reference is to a DQ of a road race winner this week for an illegal riding position she used very briefly. Not related to MTB starts, just an example of a DQ for something really minor.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Stonerider said:


> I'd say Jolanda had a semislick tire on the front...and rear. That racer has skills for days.


She absolutely does have skills for days, but she did say she considered stopping to get new wheels in the tech zone. It must've taken superhuman focus to press on without stopping and ride as well as she did.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

LMN said:


> For both the mens and womens winners the big difference marker was their technical climbing. And that is what MSA is truely about, the climbs there are incredibly difficult to make.


There also was a clear disparity about how well people dealt with being on foot and then getting back on their bike. Neff came off a few times but always looked graceful and efficient at dealing with it (running well with the bike, mounting smoothly, her cyclocross experience was evident) — contrast that with others and there might be 15 seconds or more just totaling up how well Neff dealt with her few off the bike events.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ptor said:


> There also was a clear disparity about how well people dealt with being on foot and then getting back on their bike. Neff came off a few times but always looked graceful and efficient at dealing with it (running well with the bike, mounting smoothly, her cyclocross experience was evident) — contrast that with others and there might be 15 seconds or more just totaling up how well Neff dealt with her few off the bike events.


One of the girls I coach is quite a competent runner/CX racer you could see her just eating people alive by running the technical climbs.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The UCI should use a waterfall (curved) starting line like they do in track/athletics. 

Someone on the outside moving up 30cm only puts him/her on equal footing as the people in the middle. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

jrob300 said:


> I may have missed it. Who was running Forekasters for that race? And what size? That is one heavy tire that I would not want for punchy, techincal climbs, but I'm not a world class pro either. And maybe the advantages outweigh (pun intended) the weight penalty.


I don't think they are heavy for what they are. Maybe they've updated them in the last couple of years but my 2.35 is light.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> The UCI should use a waterfall (curved) starting line like they do in track/athletics.
> 
> Someone on the outside moving up 30cm only puts him/her on equal footing as the people in the middle.
> 
> ...


?


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

LMN said:


> For both the mens and womens winners the big difference marker was their technical climbing. And that is what MSA is truely about, the climbs there are incredibly difficult to make.
> 
> Picking the right tire for the wet is also a difficult choice. Tires that excel in mud are often terrible on wet rocks. The forecaster was actually developed with MSA in mind.


I’m fairly new to watching XCO, so I’m not sure I actually saw the last World Cup at MSA. I didn’t realize how revered the place is based on commentary and rider comments. It was on that brutal switchback climb that Bart said: “THAT’S mountain biking!” And I agree, for us mere mortals, mountain biking means not always making it cleanly. 

Despite the large winning margins, the races still delivered great racing, and great performances out front. It was funny watching Carod keep looking over his shoulder as if he expected to see someone.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

LMN said:


> One of the girls I coach is quite a competent runner/CX racer you could see her just eating people alive by running the technical climbs.


Does she wear track spikes while on the bike? 😁


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

le_pedal said:


> I don't think they are heavy for what they are. Maybe they've updated them in the last couple of years but my 2.35 is light.


They have just released the new Forekaster. It's now a light Enduro/heavy trail tyre.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Does anyone know what tire Haley Batten was running on the rear?
I know the front is a Fast Track but I didn't recognize the rear, and no side shots of it.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Augustus-G said:


> Does anyone know what tire Haley Batten was running on the rear?
> I know the front is a Fast Track but I didn't recognize the rear, and no side shots of it.


I think she ran Renegade at Cape Epic. Different conditions, though. Not sure what she had here. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

celswick said:


> I think she ran Renegade at Cape Epic. Different conditions, though. Not sure what she had here.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I run that same combo here in the Desert SW.
They were also using a new version of the Captain earlier this year.

UPDATE: I found a much better picture of it over at vojomag and it is a RENEGADE.
Tough tire to be riding on a wet day. 

I also found a closeup of Emily Batty's arm. Hats off to her for sticking it out and finishing the race.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> They have just released the new Forekaster. It's now a light Enduro/heavy trail tyre.


Go on, say the words, you know you want too.
Down.
Country.

See?
Easy.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I'd say Jolanda had a semislick tire on the front...and rear. That racer has skills for days.


Yes it looked she was using the Bontrager XR1 which is not the sort of tyre Id have on my shopping list in wet conditions.
It is a softer compound than the Maxxis Aspen though but Jolanda is just so confident in her bike and super smooth in how she moves over the bike that she could probably make a gravel tyre work in those conditions. Maintaining speed and direction control is so important and she does this to perfection


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RexRacerX said:


> As has been mentioned, 200 CHF is not so much for a Swiss (or any large) team.
> 
> Question 1: is 30 cm really much of an advantage?
> 
> ...


*Specific rules 4.2.013 *A start grid must be drawn on the ground. The riders must be lined up next to each other *on* one line. The riders in each heat may choose their starting position in order of their race number. The rider with the lowest race number gets first choice. 
and then have a look at
Chapter XV MTB RACE INCIDENTS TABLE (chapter introduced on 1.01.20) 4.15.001 Table of race incidents in accordance with article 12.4.001 ,Incident 10

its not massively clear, its only sort of as clear as mud and leaves a bit of wiggle room for interpretation


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> *Specific rules 4.2.013 *A start grid must be drawn on the ground. The riders must be lined up next to each other *on* one line. The riders in each heat may choose their starting position in order of their race number. The rider with the lowest race number gets first choice.
> and then have a look at
> Chapter XV MTB RACE INCIDENTS TABLE (chapter introduced on 1.01.20) 4.15.001 Table of race incidents in accordance with article 12.4.001 ,Incident 10
> 
> its not massively clear, its only sort of as clear as mud and leaves a bit of wiggle room for interpretation


Indeed, they don’t specify if it’s the body or the front tire, for instance. The recent warnings/fines seem to imply it’s the front wheel, however.

Still pretty laughable to think of 1) writing such an ambiguous rule, and 2) having no rule on false start. It’s honestly a bit surprising there aren’t more false starts. In athletics they were laughably common until the rules changed to allow only one per race, rather than one per athlete. Maybe it’s I part due to the deliberate nature of clipping in.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RexRacerX said:


> Indeed, they don’t specify if it’s the body or the front tire, for instance. The recent warnings/fines seem to imply it’s the front wheel, however.
> 
> Still pretty laughable to think of 1) writing such an ambiguous rule, and 2) having no rule on false start. It’s honestly a bit surprising there aren’t more false starts. In athletics they were laughably common until the rules changed to allow only one per race, rather than one per athlete. Maybe it’s I part due to the deliberate nature of clipping in.


During our start sequence the starter count down and provides instruction as to when you have to be clipped in and one foot on the ground, front wheel on the line or behind it. The tape is rollled back and we get the 1minute signal then 39sec 15sec and the gun goes anytime between 13 and 0. The starter is very clear in what they want to see. We’ve had a start countdown stopped when a rider moved forward before the start. This is at provincial / regional level XCO . I’m not sure why the starter isn’t more clear at the world cups. It’s certainly a gap.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Well, again...Worlds are not on Red Bull TV.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

They are. You just need to take a quick vacation to a country that Red Bull is allowed to broadcast worlds too.

Pinkbike even had an entire article last year on the importance of internet security last year.

This is all because the UCI sells the rights to World's as part of a separate package. Redbull doesn't own those rights in all countries. Luckily, for us, going to those other countries is as simple as using a VPN and setting it to where ever it's broadcasting.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Where can we watch Worlds in the U.S.? I googled quite a bit (from mobile, admittedly) and could not find a single article laying out when and how to watch Worlds, not even from Red Bull or on the Les Gets event page. I guess I'm missing something, but right now, I can't even see the exact dates and times for the XCO. You used to be able to see a list of countries that Red Bull would be broadcasting in.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

You pay for Flobikes. 

Edit. It might not actually be Flobikes. I don't remember who it is, mostly because I am very interested in VPN internet safety. 



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbikes-annual-vpn-internet-safety-briefing.html


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Looks like it is Flobikes in the USA:





__





Loading…






www.flobikes.com





In CH it’s on public television. The announcer in French was pretty funny last year at the finish… but still, nothing compares to Rob. Good thing my internet is very secure.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Worlds tend to be sold as a package; so Road, Track, CX, MTB championships should be with the same channel. However, some countries prioritise Road Worlds, and don't show the others live, or delayed/ highlights.
I know here in the UK, the MTB Worlds were on RedBull TV, Eurosport Player, and the BBC iPlayer/website - all with different commentary. As is the norm, I suspect we'll only get the Elite races unlike the CX Worlds which got the lot, including the Team Relay.


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## Cerpss (Sep 13, 2015)

Stonerider said:


> I'd say Jolanda had a semislick tire on the front...and rear. That racer has skills for days.


What tire was Jolanda running? I didn't pick it up in any of the pictures I saw.

edit - I noticed the answer in a subsequent post after I asked.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I don’t think lining up with your wheel slightly ahead gives a significant advantage or even any. But the optics of it are not good.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

For those of you who have GCN+ already for the road stuff, they had the World Champs last year. You do need the same VPN you normally use.

Is the Les Gets course the same as when Sarrou won?


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I _really_ hope the French broadcast the XCR race (ideally on YouTube lol) since they are so freaking strong as a Nation/team. It's a cool watch.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

RexRacerX said:


> Looks like it is Flobikes in the USA:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My Internet tends to be very secure too, but which countries will Red Bull even be streaming in this time? It's another important question for Internet security...


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

LMN said:


> I don’t think lining up with your wheel slightly ahead gives a significant advantage or even any. But the optics of it are not good.



Completely agree and it's so easy not to do. You are a professional, don't put your wheel over the line. In the broadcasts it was so obvious just how far ahead she was (and didn't seem to give her any advantage).

It makes you look like a bad sport.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

mail_liam said:


> For those of you who have GCN+ already for the road stuff, they had the World Champs last year. You do need the same VPN you normally use.
> 
> Is the Les Gets course the same as when Sarrou won?


Sarrou won in Leogang


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

U23 races being considered for broadcast by Discovery on their 8yr deal. How long was Red Bull deal? 10 years, right?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't know Redbull's plan. But they are out of WC races after this year.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Pidcock and Mat Fluck both confirmed racing European Champs


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> U23 races being considered for broadcast by Discovery on their 8yr deal. How long was Red Bull deal? 10 years, right?


That’s good news for I23 teams and riders. Should help with sponsorship


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> U23 races being considered for broadcast by Discovery on their 8yr deal. How long was Red Bull deal? 10 years, right?


Quite right too. And so should the DHI Qualifying.....it's a massive part of the weekend. And for all the good work RB did, they never seemed to improve on the coverage. Maybe it wasn't worth the cost. However, standing still is not an option, maybe (hopefully) Discovery moves the sport to the next level - and we see more outside sponsorship,etc


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Pidcock and Mat Fluck both confirmed racing European Champs


And Sina Frei is racing the Tour of Scandinavia for SD Worx; looks a similar arrangement as Annika Langvad's for the same team (when they were Boels Dolmans).


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Emily Batty’s ride is probably the most impressive. She needed stitches in the arm to stop the bleeding of the wound incurred in the start crash. She beat her team mate. Just from a toughness perspective I’ll support her for a worlds podium. Damn does she deserve it


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I wonder if Batty's issue is mental. For anyone who watches downhill, just look at Finn Isles - he had insane speed and skill, but only just now pulled off his first win after several years in elite and after openly talking about how much he had to work on his mental game. I think Batty could be in the same boat. She has multiple second-place finishes from as recently as 2018 and has podiumed at World Championships before, but does she believe she can win? Is she racing for the win when she lines up? 

I've always thought it's interesting how different riders can be on the topic of winning. Mona Mitterwallner has openly stated that every time she lines up, she's racing for the win, while most racers seem to say they're hoping for "consistency" or a "good result" or "top 10" or "progress." If you're racing for progress, will you be ready to win when the legs are good?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Nino uses the same words. "Good result" etc. He doesn't say explicitly all the time "I am only racing to win". I don't know at the end of the day if how you frame it makes that much of a difference (because I am not a sport psychologist). But I would be leery of guessing at anyone's mental issues.

From the outside Batty's performance declined when she went on whatever her diet was and when her partner started coaching her.


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

roth88 said:


> I wonder if Batty's issue is mental. For anyone who watches downhill, just look at Finn Isles - he had insane speed and skill, but only just now pulled off his first win after several years in elite and after openly talking about how much he had to work on his mental game. I think Batty could be in the same boat. She has multiple second-place finishes from as recently as 2018 and has podiumed at World Championships before, but does she believe she can win? Is she racing for the win when she lines up?


Right now I think she's just on a run of bad luck. Always starting from the back of the pack, in the XCC and XCO she tangled with riders who were starting their first ever world cups in both incidents. And so yet again, she'll be starting from the back next time...she just needs to catch a break! She looked so devastated in the XCO crash, we were standing right where it happened, I thought she was going to freak out on the other rider...she was absolutely motoring through the field once she got moving again, looks to be riding really strong.

It was making me think about the way the MTB World Cup series operates, and how a bit of trouble in a race or 2 can have a normally top ranking rider stuck riding with the rookies. (which then makes me think about how crazy Nino's last decade of performances have been!!!)


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

down0050 said:


> Right now I think she's just on a run of bad luck. Always starting from the back of the pack, in the XCC and XCO she tangled with riders who were starting their first ever world cups in both incidents. And so yet again, she'll be starting from the back next time...she just needs to catch a break! She looked so devastated in the XCO crash, we were standing right where it happened, I thought she was going to freak out on the other rider...she was absolutely motoring through the field once she got moving again, looks to be riding really strong.
> 
> It was making me think about the way the MTB World Cup series operates, and how a bit of trouble in a race or 2 can have a normally top ranking rider stuck riding with the rookies. (which then makes me think about how crazy Nino's last decade of performances have been!!!)


I don't question the difficulty of starting in the back of the pack, but I don't think the rookies caused those crashes - at least not in Leogang. The video there shows Batty crashing into Mona from the side, not the other way around, and Mona was the one who was devastated that time (she even said her "dreams were destroyed"). I guess it wasn't clear from the video whether another rookie on the other side could have caused Batty to lose control, though.

I would love to see Batty take the win in Val di Sole or on a course next year. She is a very strong, skilled technical rider (she was on a hardtail in that epic La Bresse 2018 race where she finished second only to Neff). She has what it takes and I hope she succeeds.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't really understand how people who compete at the world cup level are rookies. I know it happens, but I don't understand it.

If they are good enough to be there, they shouldn't be a danger to riders around them.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I thought her interview/ instagram post was interesting; she wasn't impressed with who crashed into her in the XCC race and her bike was broken. She got it fixed, and went for a ride to replace her XCC effort. The fire is still there, which is why she carried on in the XCO race after yet another crash - and rode a very good race. It would be easy to retire from the race after all those crashes - but not a bit of it. To me, that's a great sign of someone who still wants it.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> I don't know at the end of the day if how you frame it makes that much of a difference


absolutely does. Pretty much 50 % qualified as a sports psychologist already. 



cassieno said:


> Nino uses the same words. "Good result" etc. He doesn't say explicitly all the time "I am only racing to win".


he does seem to know a thing or two on the topic…


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

RexRacerX said:


> absolutely does. Pretty much 50 % qualified as a sports psychologist already.
> 
> 
> 
> he does seem to know a thing or two on the topic…


“Good result” for some would be top 10; others top 20. For Nino, a good result is probably 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. Anything else is probably a disappointment. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

Brad said:


> Emily Batty’s ride is probably the most impressive. She needed stitches in the arm to stop the bleeding of the wound incurred in the start crash. She beat her team mate. Just from a toughness perspective I’ll support her for a worlds podium. Damn does she deserve it


Seems like A LOT. Of crashes happening lately… which I know happens when you’re pushing the envelope. Is crashing just part of the sport now and whoever survives the course wins?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

FortOrdMTB said:


> Seems like A LOT. Of crashes happening lately… which I know happens when you’re pushing the envelope. Is crashing just part of the sport now and whoever survives the course wins?


The start sequence is a risky part of the race, the riskiest by a long way. The further back you start the higher the risk. The challenge of rookie riders who don’t participate in a World Cup regularly is they’re not used to the start pace nor the number of riders around you. So it gets erratic and wheels get tangled easily. This is especially a problem in places like North America where there is a large community of riders that don’t often have the opportunity to race a full WC season so enter the races that are most local to them . In Petropolis we saw a huge contingent of South American riders and then they disappeared. 

Emily is fighting her way back to the front but that requires a good short track result. Bad luck in the XCC compromises Sunday so she probably be better served by a more conservative start and pick off riders at her own pace . Bag some consistency and the higher start placement will follow. But with her XCC compromised she was probably trying to get moving up the field and ran into trouble. It’s pretty hard to hold yourself back when you have good form. I’m sure she will figure it out. She’s smart and experienced. She will analyse and adapt and come back with better results in the World Champs and Val di Sole


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Starts are probably where older athletes are at their greatest disadvantage. The combination of the loss of youthful aggressiveness and acceleration makes it hard to those gaps. And if you are slow to hit them someone else will, even if they have to punt you out of the way.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

LMN said:


> Starts are probably where older athletes are at their greatest disadvantage. The combination of the loss of youthful aggressiveness and acceleration makes it hard to those gaps. And if you are slow to hit them someone else will, even if they have to punt you out of the way.


One of the few times that i disagree with you, from my observation starts are something you have or haven't, very little to do with age, on our local scene we have 50+ years olds who are still one of the first on the singletracks and vice versa
Unless by old you mean 55 and older 😅


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Raikzz said:


> One of the few times that i disagree with you, from my observation starts are something you have or haven't, very little to do with age, on our local scene we have 50+ years olds who are still one of the first on the singletracks and vice versa
> Unless by old you mean 55 and older 😅


I agree with you. But I think the trend is for starts to get worse with age. You can still be a great starter in your 40s but you aren’t what you were.

I think we can see this with even Nino. He is still a great starter but he is not the amazing starter he was in his youth.


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## kevbikemad (Jan 2, 2006)

Is Batty still coached by Adam? That's never seemed like a good idea on a couple levels.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I think coaching by a spouse can work sometimes - it worked for Gunn Rita Dahle Flesja, one of the all-time greats. She was coached by her husband for her whole career, I think, and her 30th win was at the age of 45 against Neff, Courtney, Batty, Langvad, and other top riders. I don't think it works in every case, though.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

I think Batty and her team mate is not really trying to win. I think they are just there for being fit / wc ready form. Looking at their instagram, youtube, social media.. seem like their team is more interested on selling bikes than winning at the moment. I may be wrong. But I noticed this since Batty left Trek or Trek dropped her?


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

I notice for Batty's last crash she was lined up behind Mona Mitterwallner. Last racer I would want to line up behind, unless you are planning to pass into the hole she left in front of her. But Emily did tangle with Mona earlier in the year


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

ccm said:


> I notice for Batty's last crash she was lined up behind Mona Mitterwallner. Last racer I would want to line up behind, unless you are planning to pass into the hole she left in front of her. But Emily did tangle with Mona earlier in the year


If I were Batty, I wouldn't line up behind Mona or get in Mona's way because Mona seemed pretty pissed after Batty collided into her out of nowhere in Leogang.

Also, Mona's starts have been improving lately. I think she could take the win at World Champs or Val di Sole - she has two second places in her rookie elite year already (alongside other podiums) and is VERY motivated.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

gat3keeper said:


> I think Batty and her team mate is not really trying to win. I think they are just there for being fit / wc ready form. Looking at their instagram, youtube, social media.. seem like their team is more interested on selling bikes than winning at the moment. I may be wrong. But I noticed this since Batty left Trek or Trek dropped her?


I think the idea is that winning does sell bikes. “Win on Sunday…” 

I’m sure her social media presence has significant value for Canyon, but add in some winning, and it would be better yet. I suspect that winning would be positively reinforced by the terms in her contract(s) also (Bonuses, etc.).


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

roth88 said:


> Also, Mona's starts have been improving lately. I think she could take the win at World Champs or Val di Sole - she has two second places in her rookie elite year already (alongside other podiums) and is VERY motivated.


I am really interested to see how all the peaking pays off for the female xc racers. 

So many of them seem focused on World Champs. Very few on the overall.
Mona, Loana, PFP, Kate, Batty, Kelly, Batten. Are all either at the top of their form, increasing, or rested for worlds.

Should be a really good race.

In the men's side only MF seems to be really doing anything specific (I. E. Resting) for worlds. Rest of the field seems to be racing into it.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

I don't know if having covid counts as Resting


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

GSPChilliwack said:


> I think the idea is that winning does sell bikes. “Win on Sunday…”
> 
> I’m sure her social media presence has significant value for Canyon, but add in some winning, and it would be better yet. I suspect that winning would be positively reinforced by the terms in her contract(s) also (Bonuses, etc.).


It should. I asked this last year on this forum on what's happening with Batty and how can they sell bike if she is not performing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Batty. When I saw her knee raptured few years ago and continue racing, that's the time I became a fan. However, for the past years since she left Trek, there seem no good results.

If she is really in good wc condition, at least top 10 each time right? With her being an elite athlete, should be.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It was mentioned in commentary on Sunday, in the women's race, but do we know which race Mona is racing at the Worlds? As she has already won the U23 title, you would think she'd be going for the Elite - but she will need dispensation from the UCI. Which has happened before.....


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cassieno said:


> I am really interested to see how all the peaking pays off for the female xc racers.
> 
> So many of them seem focused on World Champs. Very few on the overall.
> Mona, Loana, PFP, Kate, Batty, Kelly, Batten. Are all either at the top of their form, increasing, or rested for worlds.
> ...


LL and PFP were the only big names to skip the North American leg to prepare for Worlds. For the others, traveling may take a toll on training. 

Mat had Covid, but he's racing European Champs a week before Worlds against Lars (upward trajectory), Pidcock, Koreztky and some others. Valero and Nino are going straight to Les Gets.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Several of the others ended up skipping the North American leg due to COVID or injury (Sina Frei, Laura Stigger, and Anne Tauber on the women's side, Christopher Blevins on the men's for MSA only). There's probably others I'm missing.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Several of the others ended up skipping the North American leg due to COVID or injury (Sina Frei, Laura Stigger, and Anne Tauber on the women's side, Christopher Blevins on the men's for MSA only). There's probably others I'm missing.


And those who went the NA rounds picked up covid.

The WC this year is going to be the one rider who manged to avoid getting sick or injured this summer.


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

I’m curious to know if rider’s contracts are heavily weighted towards bonuses for podiums, race wins, or championships. Or does the payoff for that largely come when it is time to renew/shop for a new contract?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

All sportspersons have performance clauses that stipulates bonuses. What those are would be unique to the contract but generally a retainer plus points bonuses plus wins and position bonuses. 
Like any performance related contract meeting expectations would play a role in contract renewal as would brand ambassadorship and relevance to the market etc.
How contracts are structured would also be dependent on prevailing tax laws the athlete is subject to, asset holdings etc.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> It should. I asked this last year on this forum on what's happening with Batty and how can they sell bike if she is not performing.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Batty. When I saw her knee raptured few years ago and continue racing, that's the time I became a fan. However, for the past years since she left Trek, there seem no good results.
> 
> If she is really in good wc condition, at least top 10 each time right? With her being an elite athlete, should be.


I don't know at all how her sponsorship deal is set up, but from memory, it is "her" team, she set it up and canyon are just the bike provider, not necessarily the major sponsor, so the deal could be minutes of coverage (crashes help that) or X amount social media as opposed to race results as they have 2 other teams they use for that...she might get just as much cash or more from Porsche and other places she is sponsored by to run the actual team.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mik_git said:


> I don't know at all how her sponsorship deal is set up, but from memory, it is "her" team, she set it up and canyon are just the bike provider, not necessarily the major sponsor, so the deal could be minutes of coverage (crashes help that) or X amount social media as opposed to race results as they have 2 other teams they use for that...she might get just as much cash or more from Porsche and other places she is sponsored by to run the actual team.


The team is mtbracing. 
Canyon is a naming rights sponsor not just a bike provider. Cannondale factory racing is a similar set up.
Emily and her husband Adam own the team among other businesses they have together.
The list of partners (sponsors) is quite long but the naming rights sponsor will have a different type of contract that will align their ambitions for the brand in the relevant market. The bulk of the sponsorship income will be Canyon, and this will likely include the team obtaining bikes at factory cost or free of charge (often limited to a fixed number per year) or a combination of the two E.g. first 2 bikes per rider are free thereafter it’s factory cost + shipping .
Their team Canyon Mtb Racing is a Canadian registered team. I suspect it’s not too different a deal to the canyon northwave team, canyon collective Pirelli, canyon collective factory team, canyon cllctv (Loana Lecomte’s team) or canyon collective fmd.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Looking at it, Canyon probably has more bikes racing at professional level than any other bike manufacturer.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Brad said:


> The team is mtbracing.
> Canyon is a naming rights sponsor not just a bike provider. Cannondale factory racing is a similar set up.
> Emily and her husband Adam own the team among other businesses they have together.


So I guess that's the reason why "pressure to win" is not that high if they own a team. Anyway, I still want Batty to see her on top 10 at least. I hope she can still do it.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Looking at it, Canyon probably has more bikes racing at professional level than any other bike manufacturer.


Canyon is sort of the Lola of the Mtb world


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

2023 Calendar just announced. 









UCI and Warner Bros. Discovery unveil 2023 UCI Mountain Bike World Cup and Enduro World Series calendar






www.uci.org


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/uci-and-warner-bros-discovery-release-2023-world-cup-and-ews-calendar.html


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

How many races???!!!???


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

gat3keeper said:


> So I guess that's the reason why "pressure to win" is not that high if they own a team. Anyway, I still want Batty to see her on top 10 at least. I hope she can still do it.


For sure , Canyon have other potential race winners on their bikes so through this model is a better way to hedge the win. They can be viewed as a bike partner of choice and that carries a lot of weight when making a purchase decision.
Having riders like Loana Lecomte and MVDP on the books also takes the pressure to win off riders like Emily or Luca Schwartzbauer. They obviously have other pressures to win like other sponsors or personal objectives.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

That's an interesting calendar;9 rounds- I'm guessing it's an interim calendar to give them time before having their own in 2024. Looks like Bart was right, and Valkenburg get a World Cup, but sadly no Albstadt. A near 2 month gap from early July to late August; I think the combined Worlds are mid August. And Mont Saint-Anne in early October.......


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Very interesting calandar.

The mid-summer break will be really nice for athletes. Although it isn't really a break that time will be filled with nationals, continentals, worlds, pan-ams games, and a couple of national series events. 

Those seven off weekend will be cut to one or two in a hurry.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

LMN said:


> Very interesting calandar.
> 
> The mid-summer break will be really nice for athletes. Although it isn't really a break that time will be filled with nationals, continentals, worlds, pan-ams games, and a couple of national series events.
> 
> Those seven off weekend will be cut to one or two in a hurry.


wonder if that summer break for World Cup will revive local level XCO in BC beyond early June?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I've got another theory about the mid season World Cup break, and it's connected to the broadcaster/Promoter; July on Discovery/GCN/Eurosport means one thing; the Tour. Why run World Cups when that is taking place? Promote the World Cups away from the Tour which takes up all the media coverage/ interest.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

roth88 said:


> Several of the others ended up skipping the North American leg due to COVID or injury (Sina Frei, Laura Stigger, and Anne Tauber on the women's side, Christopher Blevins on the men's for MSA only). There's probably others I'm missing.


Anton Cooper is another. However, I think that it was his hand injury that kept him from the No Amer leg, initially. COVID stopped him from the Commonwealth Games.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> I've got another theory about the mid season World Cup break, and it's connected to the broadcaster/Promoter; July on Discovery/GCN/Eurosport means one thing; the Tour. Why run World Cups when that is taking place? Promote the World Cups away from the Tour which takes up all the media coverage/ interest.


Good theory. 

WC is also in early august. As the schedule is written people should be able to target WC and race all the rounds.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Is anybody really surprised about Petropolis; obviously not knowing all the details but one got the feeling it might have been a 'one off'. I bet Albstadt are disappointed though.....

I do think it will be a few years before ESO put their own stamp on the series. Going forward, in 2024 will Fort William be able to host all 3 disciplines, like some other venues are doing next season? I'm guessing not - although I'd like to see a XC World Cup return to the UK.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

Exmuhle said:


> Is anybody really surprised about Petropolis; obviously not knowing all the details but one got the feeling it might have been a 'one off'. I bet Albstadt are disappointed though.....


Still it is a shame that for a world cup, all the XCO races take place on only 2 continents


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Fort william had an excellent XCO course. I was there when gunnrita won it in 2003


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jfcb said:


> Still it is a shame that for a world cup, all the XCO races take place on only 2 continents


I hope this is just a temporary measure, in the main to the short time span since acquiring the World Cup rights, and having to negotiate, etc I'm hoping we see attempts to have rounds in NZ/Australia, as well as South America.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

jfcb said:


> Still it is a shame that for a world cup, all the XCO races take place on only 2 continents


This is repeated all the time. However, there just isn't enough money in the sport for it to be anything else. Just asking teams to go to two continents is too much it seems.

Would be nice if it was actually "world", but the impact of training / time zones seems to be extreme on the athletes. And I bet is why we don't see US racers doing that well (in general). Plus, the gravel scene is so lucrative here that a US racer doesn't have to live in EU to make a living.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Usa and Canada being last two races, how many people are gonna skip those? I wouldn't be suprised if that number is big


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Eric F said:


> Anton Cooper is another. However, I think that it was his hand injury that kept him from the No Amer leg, initially. COVID stopped him from the Commonwealth Games.


It was the Comm Games that he was always entered for. Though he caught Covid and couldn't race. Hopefully he's able to bounce back for World's 🤞.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Did anyone else get excited that Whistler had an XCO round for a second.

Not that I've been there or know what their XC tracks are like, but I assume great things.

Is there technical riding in the Netherlands? Or will that be a very different type of course?


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## Jolyzara (Jan 11, 2022)

Exmuhle said:


> I've got another theory about the mid season World Cup break, and it's connected to the broadcaster/Promoter; July on Discovery/GCN/Eurosport means one thing; the Tour. Why run World Cups when that is taking place? Promote the World Cups away from the Tour which takes up all the media coverage/ interest.


It is ALWAYS about the money. Ratings = advertising $$$. You don't split your viewers.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

mail_liam said:


> Is there technical riding in the Netherlands? Or will that be a very different type of course?


They have hills, but no natural technical obstacles so they will probably add a lot of man-made features into the cours (i.e. northshore, rockgarden, some drops). Google cyclocross Valkenburg, it will be on the same location.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mail_liam said:


> Did anyone else get excited that Whistler had an XCO round for a second.
> 
> Not that I've been there or know what their XC tracks are like, but I assume great things.
> 
> Is there technical riding in the Netherlands? Or will that be a very different type of course?


I think there will be a round in the future. Why wife had a chat with them about course design a little while back.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jfcb said:


> They have hills, but no natural technical obstacles so they will probably add a lot of man-made features into the course (i.e. northshore, rockgarden, some drops). Google cyclocross Valkenburg, it will be on the same location.


When Bart mentioned the rumour of Valkenburg on RBTV a few races back, he mentioned the Shimano centre; and as you mention that is near where the CX Worlds were in 2018. So, if that is the venue, then as you say, they'll need to add technical features....I'm presuming they have trails.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Valkenberg aan de Geul is east of Maastricht which is in the Ardennes region. There is a lot of Mtb trails and hills in the area. I mountain biked in the area a lot 20years ago


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Did anyone else get excited that Whistler had an XCO round for a second.


I got super excited to see Tasmania...but then realised enduro, so... less excited.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

mik_git said:


> I got super excited to see Tasmania...but then realised enduro, so... less excited.


I went to the Enduro the first time it was in Derby...... absolutely pissed down with rain. rather watch the tv coverage to be honest.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Exmuhle said:


> I hope this is just a temporary measure, in the main to the short time span since acquiring the World Cup rights, and having to negotiate, etc I'm hoping we see attempts to have rounds in NZ/Australia, as well as South America.


I'd like to see them return to Stellenbosch, SA. That was a cool course and made for some great racing. It was also a great prelude to the Cape Epic.


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

Dssculi looks 45 but he is inly 25 .very odd


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

mail_liam said:


> They have just released the new Forekaster. It's now a light Enduro/heavy trail tyre.


That's disappointing


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

They are releasing a mud XC tire at Sea Otter next year. It will replace / fill the gap the redesigned Forecaster caused.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

cassieno said:


> They are releasing a mud XC tire at Sea Otter next year. It will replace / fill the gap the redesigned Forecaster caused.


Presumably the Severe? I'm surprised he didn't mention the updated Aspen. Considering that's been well out there amongst the Pro's for a while now I thought it'd be due sooner than Feb/March.

Most the Pro riders have been running the new Aspen instead of the One70 tpi Pro only version it seems. It'll be interesting to see if they go back to 170tpi once it's in full production.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah, he said the Severe. The updated Aspen, is an Aspen ST I think. It's like the Semi-slick version of the Aspen. I don't think it's a normie tire (look at how many flats Nino got at Cape Epic)


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

🤷‍♂️


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

The Aspen ST just won that chunky gravel race they call Leadville 100...piloted by Keegan Sweenson.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Not XCO related, but what has no Keegan won this season? Take a look at his results...His ''worst'' resulta at a big race has been 2nd in a ful blown sprint @ Unbound after 200 miles of racing!!! And and LeaBoat this weekend!!! I hope he races Marathon Worlds. He placed 7 last year.


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## cal_len1 (Nov 18, 2017)

Keegan truly is having the season of a lifetime. One way to win the Lifetime Grand Prix is to just win everything.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

carlostruco said:


> Not XCO related, but what has no Keegan won this season? Take a look at his results...His ''worst'' resulta at a big race has been 2nd in a ful blown sprint @ Unbound after 200 miles of racing!!! And and LeaBoat this weekend!!! I hope he races Marathon Worlds. He placed 7 last year.


He looked strong at Cape Epic this year (looked like his partner couldn't keep up with him) and I guess all this not traveling to Europe for XCOs really agrees with him.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

On another XCO related topic, LL put almost 3min on PFP this past weekend at the French Cup...hhmmm...3min!!!


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

carlostruco said:


> Not XCO related, but what has no Keegan won this season? Take a look at his results...His ''worst'' resulta at a big race has been 2nd in a ful blown sprint @ Unbound after 200 miles of racing!!! And and LeaBoat this weekend!!! I hope he races Marathon Worlds. He placed 7 last year.


I can't imagine he makes it as there's still two(?) Races left of the LTGP series. It'd be great to see him up against the best and the World again. The long stuff is really his calling! (Yes I know he won XCO Nationals)


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> I can't imagine he makes it as there's still two(?) Races left of the LTGP series. It'd be great to see him up against the best and the World again. The long stuff is really his calling! (Yes I know he won XCO Nationals)


I think he also won short track. 

*EDIT* It was Blevins. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Regarding Swenson, I heard him on a podcast saying he’d really like to roll up to the start line of Leadville wearing the rainbow jersey. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

carlostruco said:


> On another XCO related topic, LL put almost 3min on PFP this past weekend at the French Cup...hhmmm...3min!!!


That's going to be interesting at World Champs. They're both targeting that race to the exclusion of actually entering the regular World Cups. My money is on Loana, but PFP is VERY competitive and shouldn't be counted out.


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## pinkpowa (Jun 24, 2007)

celswick said:


> Regarding Swenson, I heard him on a podcast saying he’d really like to roll up to the start line of Leadville wearing the rainbow jersey.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Oh so he's doing Gravel Worlds this weekend?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

roth88 said:


> That's going to be interesting at World Champs. They're both targeting that race to the exclusion of actually entering the regular World Cups. My money is on Loana, but PFP is VERY competitive and shouldn't be counted out.


I don't think PFP has fully accepted she's not the French queen anymore. LL will beat her every time probably for the foreseeable future. But who knows. I still cringe at the idea of targeting ONE single race. Look at Batty. She spent untold amount of prep focusing on MSA...only to have it go down the toilet. Almost seems inevitable that when you plan something so hard, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Life is cruel in that regard LOL.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

celswick said:


> Regarding Swenson, I heard him on a podcast saying he’d really like to roll up to the start line of Leadville wearing the rainbow jersey.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Which Pod was this? I'd like to give it a listen.


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## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

celswick said:


> Regarding Swenson, I heard him on a podcast saying he’d really like to roll up to the start line of Leadville wearing the rainbow jersey.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Along similar lines, I listened to one with Sofia who was saying she was a bit edgy about telling Keegan she qualified for the Olympics when for as long as she's known him he has been saying he wants to race at the Olympics, and then she goes and qualifies to ride for Argentina on a suggestion from her coach.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> Which Pod was this? I'd like to give it a listen.


Adventure Stache with Peyson McElveen. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I don't think PFP has fully accepted she's not the French queen anymore. LL will beat her every time probably for the foreseeable future. But who knows. I still cringe at the idea of targeting ONE single race. Look at Batty. She spent untold amount of prep focusing on MSA...only to have it go down the toilet. Almost seems inevitable that when you plan something so hard, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Life is cruel in that regard LOL.


I’m pretty sure PFP has accomplished so many amazing feats on different types of bikes that she will forever be know as one of the greatest cyclists of all time. I’d say she is the French Queen of Cycling until which point LL accomplished half of what PFP does. She’s clearly on the back end of her career and I know what you’re saying, but what a career and I can’t think of other ladies who have won championships as diverse and multifaceted as PFP. 


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## Stewiewin (Dec 17, 2020)

wen is next exo race


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I don't think PFP has fully accepted she's not the French queen anymore. LL will beat her every time probably for the foreseeable future. But who knows. I still cringe at the idea of targeting ONE single race. Look at Batty. She spent untold amount of prep focusing on MSA...only to have it go down the toilet. Almost seems inevitable that when you plan something so hard, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. Life is cruel in that regard LOL.


Pauline has been one of the best riders in the world for almost 10 years now. At that stage in a career it is normal for racers to have to pick and choose the races they are going to be good at. Being good all year is something that typically happens earlier in a career.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

LMN said:


> Pauline has been one of the best riders in the world for almost 10 years now. At that stage in a career it is normal for racers to have to pick and choose the races they are going to be good at. Being good all year is something that typically happens earlier in a career.


I know she’s amazing. I’m just saying targeting one race for the year is bound to fail. I suck, so I have no room to talk, but I have raced every year for 31 years straight. And I too try to focus on one local race, and it’s always something that trips me up. Weather, allergies, you name it. The few years I treated it as just another race among a dozen, I did my best.

I’d love to see some historical data, but how Evie did it was perfect. She was on fire and rolled right through the world champs, then kept going. Not racing for months then showing up and winning just seems weird.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I know she’s amazing. I’m just saying targeting one race for the year is bound to fail. I suck, so I have no room to talk, but I have raced every year for 31 years straight. And I too try to focus on one local race, and it’s always something that trips me up. Weather, allergies, you name it. The few years I treated it as just another race among a dozen, I did my best.
> 
> I’d love to see some historical data, but how Evie did it was perfect. She was on fire and rolled right through the world champs, then kept going. Not racing for months then showing up and winning just seems weird.


Worked for Jolanda.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I know she’s amazing. I’m just saying targeting one race for the year is bound to fail. I suck, so I have no room to talk, but I have raced every year for 31 years straight. And I too try to focus on one local race, and it’s always something that trips me up. Weather, allergies, you name it. The few years I treated it as just another race among a dozen, I did my best.
> 
> I’d love to see some historical data, but how Evie did it was perfect. She was on fire and rolled right through the world champs, then kept going. Not racing for months then showing up and winning just seems weird.


Sorry, but the take that focusing on a single race in a season lacks the perspective and experience of an elite athlete. Certainly, there are additional psychological challenges involved with any race that carries addition significant; the olympics as the ultimate example. But if you can’t preform at that one race, you don’t win rainbow stripes. 

Regarding Batty and MSA, Carod stated in Snowshoe that his season goal was MSA. Worked out pretty well for him.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It's hard to see past Loana for the Worlds; however PF-P has a record of peaking for the big day, and she knows what she's doing. 3 minutes seems a lot; maybe at a certain point in the race, she decided to ride within herself - and finished 10 -15 secs in front of Burquier. There could be an element of 'sandbagging'.



trmn8er said:


> I’m pretty sure PFP has accomplished so many amazing feats on different types of bikes that she will forever be know as one of the greatest cyclists of all time. I’d say she is the French Queen of Cycling until which point LL accomplished half of what PFP does. She’s clearly on the back end of her career and I know what you’re saying, but what a career and I can’t think of other ladies who have won championships as diverse and multifaceted as PFP.


It's unlikely any woman will ever repeat what Pauline accomplished in 2014/15 - it's just too hard/ different to do. LL is likely to be a MTB great, but I don't know if she's got any plans for other disciplines.

Saying that, Pidcock is having a go at doing the Worlds triple.....


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I know she’s amazing. I’m just saying targeting one race for the year is bound to fail. I suck, so I have no room to talk, but I have raced every year for 31 years straight. And I too try to focus on one local race, and it’s always something that trips me up. Weather, allergies, you name it. The few years I treated it as just another race among a dozen, I did my best.
> 
> I’d love to see some historical data, but how Evie did it was perfect. She was on fire and rolled right through the world champs, then kept going. Not racing for months then showing up and winning just seems weird.


exactly! The hardest thing in endurance sport is having your lifetime best performance at a championship. It’s what separates the greats from
The also rans.
I understand training pretty well but I have no idea how to train for a peak performance at an elite championship event. It’s the hardest


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Exmuhle said:


> It's hard to see past Loana for the Worlds; however PF-P has a record of peaking for the big day, and she knows what she's doing. 3 minutes seems a lot; maybe at a certain point in the race, she decided to ride within herself - and finished 10 -15 secs in front of Burquier. There could be an element of 'sandbagging'.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


...and I honestly think he's going to win two out of three in this calendar year...


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Evie was spectacular last year. She'd probably be on the podium each weekend this year if not for back pain.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Eye candy...



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/4-race-bikes-from-the-2022-leadville-100.html


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

__





Instagram







www.instagram.com





Rock Garden practice from Snowshoe 😬


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

European Champs this weekend, in Munich. Looks like Flueckiger and Pidcock return for Friday evening's XCO race. Women's in Saturday lunchtime. As seems normal for recent Euros courses, not massively technical; a few stairs, and rock gardens thrown in.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Anyone know how/where to watch European champs in the U.S.?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Looks like it's on Youtube.


https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2wrGXMrBQUJX4MRsG6GbxhCOZ94YMvpE


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> Looks like it's on Youtube.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2wrGXMrBQUJX4MRsG6GbxhCOZ94YMvpE


Awesome, thanks! Another site made it sound like it was on European channels only.


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## chilla13 (Mar 27, 2017)

The course… well, it's approachable. Always tricky to build a track in the middle of a city. Maybe it will produce some tight racing.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

I thought Birmingham was bad but clearly Munich said "Vait....hold my bier...!!"


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Shwarzbaumer for Euro Champ 🤞🤙


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'd like to see what he could do in Cyclocross; loads of power, and very few hills/climbs to slow him down.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Podium maybe, win is a stretch if Pidcock is riding.

CX has lots of stop and go accelerations, i dont think that would suit him


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

How does Pidcock qualify to race Euro's?

It didn't look like there was enough elevation change to favour Pidcock as much as typically. Realistically it depends how the athletes are tracking that have travelled etc and how Pidcock is going.

Guessing he will be starting at the rear of the grid?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

He doesnt need elevation change to win and starting from back of the grid doesnt matter also, especially on that race, grid is much thinner

Pidcock for P1, Flückiger for P2 and Carod or Colombo 3/4


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Raikzz said:


> He doesnt need elevation change to win and starting from back of the grid doesnt matter also, especially on that race, grid is much thinner
> 
> Pidcock for P1, Flückiger for P2 and Carod or Colombo 3/4


Yeah, watching him go toe to toe with MVDP in that final sprint in NMNM(?) was astounding.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

If you're in the UK the European Championships MTB race is going to be shown on the BBC iPlayer. 19 August 2022:









BBC Sport - European Championships, 2022 Cycling, Men's Mountain Bike


Coverage of the 2022 European Championships from Munich.




www.bbc.co.uk





Here's the BBC iPlayer link for the replay of the Commonwealth Games MTB races too. Available for 4 months from 3 August 2022: 









Commonwealth Games - Mountain Biking: Cross Country Finals


The medals are won in the mountain bike races as riders go round Cannock Chase Forest.




www.bbc.co.uk





.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Busy week!!

-20th European championships
-22nd Qualifier for short track worlds
-23rd Team Relay
-25th Short track worlds
-27th World championship


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> Busy week!!
> 
> -20th European championships
> -22nd Qualifier for short track worlds
> ...


What do you know about Carter Woods? I'm hearing he's really talented. Even beyond his already impressive results.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> What do you know about Carter Woods? I'm hearing he's really talented.


He is a great guy. Incredible last lap kick, if he is in touch with a lap to go it is lights out. Interestingly he came into XC from Enduro racing. The opposite path of Jesse Meland or ALN. 

His home town of Courtney BC is a bit of cycling power house. The most well known rider is Geoff Kabush but several other WC XC racers have aslo come from there. One kid in Carter's grad class even won a DH world cup as a junior.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> He is a great guy. Incredible last lap kick, if he is in touch with a lap to go it is lights out. Interestingly he came into XC from Enduro racing. The opposite path of Jesse Meland or ALN.
> 
> His home town of Courtney BC is a bit of cycling power house. The most well known rider is Geoff Kabush but several other WC XC racers have aslo come from there. One kid in Carter's grad class even won a DH world cup as a junior.


Norco has to be regretting their non distinctive jersey design this year.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

But then again, when your athletes are racing at the front, maybe it doesn't matter.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

cassieno said:


> Looks like it's on Youtube.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2wrGXMrBQUJX4MRsG6GbxhCOZ94YMvpE


I see about 4 Road events and no MTB???


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

LMN said:


> Busy week!!
> 
> -20th European championships
> -22nd Qualifier for short track worlds
> ...


Not many top riders this year, but Swiss epic is also running this week (now) and there is a live stream:









SPAR Swiss Epic | Conquer the Alps


Eat, sleep and breathe mountain biking at the premium, all-inclusive SPAR Swiss Epic MTB stage race situated amidst the breathtaking scenery of the Graubünden region.




www.epic-series.com


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## rp86 (9 mo ago)

https://pinkbike.com/news/mathias-flueckiger-provisionally-suspended-after-testing-positive-for-zeranol.html


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Hopefully they bust Nino too


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

That is such a bummer for the sport.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> That is such a bummer for the sport.


This. I abhor cheaters. I hope this proves to be false, but I would not be shocked. I would be _shocked_ if he was the only one.



Brad said:


> Hopefully they bust Nino too


Nino has had an unbelievable season. Almost too good. It's a shame that we even have to ask the question......


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

I read stuff about Zeranol and there is definitely some discussion there since it is used in meat production. I like Fluckiger and I can't see him being a cheater (but we can all be wrong), so my first feeling is he ate some steak that contained traces. But will see.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

nya said:


> I read stuff about Zeranol and there is definitely some discussion there since it is used in meat production. I like Fluckiger and I can't see him being a cheater (but we can all be wrong), so my first feeling is he ate some steak that contained traces. But will see.


Same steakhouse Contador used to frequent....before races.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> Hopefully they bust Nino too


Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but why "hopefully?" I hope NO ONE else tests positive.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> Hopefully they bust Nino too


Seems like an odd comment. Do you know something more? Or just generally wish for Nino to be doping?

On the steak thing, don't they have to eat a real massive amount of steak for it. Like, it's "possible" Contador was clean, but we know he wasn't 🤷‍♂️.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I wish I could ride that on Drugs....... I just fall off my bike, at least I can't feel it


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

Brad said:


> Hopefully they bust Nino too


You’re dislike of Nino is obvious. Did he piss in your corn flakes? I get that he is not perfect but wow you really seem to take a shot at him at every opportunity. Just curious. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> Hopefully they bust Nino too





trmn8er said:


> You’re dislike of Nino is obvious. Did he piss in your corn flakes? I get that he is not perfect but wow you really seem to take a shot at him at every opportunity. Just curious.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Nino has his "press" persona and his race persona. They are very different. Different people know this to different degrees... but it's pretty clear that Nino has pissed in his share of corn flakes. Don't be shocked when not everyone loves the "hero".


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

jrob300 said:


> Nino has his "press" persona and his race persona. They are very different. Different people know this to different degrees... but it's pretty clear that Nino has pissed in his share of corn flakes. Don't be shocked when not everyone loves the "hero".


Never said I loved him. But some love to to bash him at every corner without knowing all the facts. If he is cheating too then he’s a cheater. And I’m hardly shocked. Plenty of people feed on negativity these days. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cassieno said:


> Looks like it's on Youtube.
> 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2wrGXMrBQUJX4MRsG6GbxhCOZ94YMvpE


Holy Wide World of Sports Batman!
Thank you.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

This is a huge bummer for the sport. I really hope it's not more widespread than this, although that feels naive to type.

If the test result was taken on June 5 and the Leogang XCO was June 12 (where Flueckiger placed first and Nino second), does this mean that the medal will be stripped and Nino announced the winner? If so, then he's broken Absalon's record...


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> Hopefully they bust Nino too


You really are an idiot, nothing more to say



From Flückiger interview day before about Lenzerheide

„I have a hard time when my character is questioned, because for me fair play and honesty are very important guidelines in my actions as an athlete and as a person.“


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

roth88 said:


> This is a huge bummer for the sport. I really hope it's not more widespread than this, although that feels naive to type.
> 
> If the test result was taken on June 5 and the Leogang XCO was June 12 (where Flueckiger placed first and Nino second), does this mean that the medal will be stripped and Nino announced the winner? If so, then he's broken Absalon's record...


What a horrible way to beat the record, I hope Nino wins another one by himself instead.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

westin said:


> Same steakhouse Contador used to frequent....before races.


Dr. Ferrari's Steak. Fastest meat in the Galaxy


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> You really are an idiot, nothing more to say
> 
> 
> 
> ...


you're welocme


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

nya said:


> I read stuff about Zeranol and there is definitely some discussion there since it is used in meat production. I like Fluckiger and I can't see him being a cheater (but we can all be wrong), so my first feeling is he ate some steak that contained traces. But will see.


It seems it is not allowed in EU meat production, so I think he needs to come up with another excuse. I wonder if he will try to throw Sponser under the bus and claim a tainted supplement? That would be interesting since both Thömus and Scott-Sram use the Sponser supplements


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> Maybe I'm reading that wrong, but why "hopefully?" I hope NO ONE else tests positive.


I agree , it’s never good for the sport when someone tests positive. However it’s also good that they catch the cheats because there has to be an effective consequence for cheating, not a reward.

Now I had a debate with a coaching pal of mine who was convince Fluck is clean. I wasn’t convinced and we agreed to disagree. The there or thereabouts performances and the sudden break through season in his 30’s just raised my eye brows.
Nino’ s years of domination, not putting a foot wrong for over a decade…. Come on pull my other leg. Not even Julien was that dominant. Freak of nature? I don’t but it so call me an idiot, I really don’t care but it’s a matter of time .
The whole Swiss Mtb team performing out of their skins at Tokyo….hmmmmmm. Great spectacle but I’m not buying it.

Even guys like Mvdp and Pidcock have really poor days, Nino’s poor days are him sitting up for inexplicable reasons. Not buying it the hype around him. Firing squad ready


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> I agree , it’s never good for the sport when someone tests positive. However it’s also good that they catch the cheats because there has to be an effective consequence for cheating, not a reward.
> 
> Now I had a debate with a coaching pal of mine who was convince Fluck is clean. I wasn’t convinced and we agreed to disagree. The there or thereabouts performances and the sudden break through season in his 30’s just raised my eye brows.
> Nino’ s years of domination, not putting a foot wrong for over a decade…. Come on pull my other leg. Not even Julien was that dominant. Freak of nature? I don’t but it so call me an idiot, I really don’t care but it’s a matter of time .
> ...


In hindsight Fluck being positive for an anabolic seems obvious considering his leap back from a poor start that coincided with what looked like a weight reduction.

I am very, very cynical about cycling in general to my detriment, but I wouldn't say there have been that many outrageous performances. Forster has been more down than up this year for example. Nino has had poor days, like XCM world's. I don't know that he's clean, but I sure hope so. I'd be more skeptical of Absalon given the era's were talking.


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

It's a weird one though - looking up Zeranol, there's not a lot to support it being very useful to a cyclist. Even bodybuilders seem to think it's a bit pointless, and they're all about increasing mass. I mean, if you're gonna cheat and take the inherent risks, why not use something that is high impact, and also not as easy to detect?


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Maybe it was a cocktail and they only traced this one!


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I don't think they use that type of drugs to increase muscle mass, I would guess that it is used to speed up recovery and be able to handle a higher training load.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> I agree , it’s never good for the sport when someone tests positive. However it’s also good that they catch the cheats because there has to be an effective consequence for cheating, not a reward.
> 
> Now I had a debate with a coaching pal of mine who was convince Fluck is clean. I wasn’t convinced and we agreed to disagree. The there or thereabouts performances and the sudden break through season in his 30’s just raised my eye brows.
> 
> ...


Dramatic improved & late career breakthrough performances, raise the alarm for me. Whatever the discipline; and XC isn't immune from them - and I can think of a few from the last few years.


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

Skier78 said:


> I don't think they use that type of drugs to increase muscle mass, I would guess that it is used to speed up recovery and be able to handle a higher training load.


Testosterone, HGH atc do that, but there doesn't seem I can't find any evidence that Zerolan does. Perhaps it's the tip of the undiscovered iceberg as cycloholic suggests, but there is also significant precedent for food contamination with Zerolan specifically. It's an odd one....


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Vamp said:


> Testosterone, HGH atc do that, but there doesn't seem I can't find any evidence that Zerolan does. Perhaps it's the tip of the undiscovered iceberg as cycloholic suggests, but there is also significant precedent for food contamination with Zerolan specifically. It's an odd one....


You are probably right, I don't know how this specific drug works, I just wanted to point out that bodybuilders and cyclists can use the same drugs for very different purposes and think that it helps them more or less.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Brad said:


> I agree , it’s never good for the sport when someone tests positive. However it’s also good that they catch the cheats because there has to be an effective consequence for cheating, not a reward.
> 
> Now I had a debate with a coaching pal of mine who was convince Fluck is clean. I wasn’t convinced and we agreed to disagree. The there or thereabouts performances and the sudden break through season in his 30’s just raised my eye brows.
> Nino’ s years of domination, not putting a foot wrong for over a decade…. Come on pull my other leg. Not even Julien was that dominant. Freak of nature? I don’t but it so call me an idiot, I really don’t care but it’s a matter of time .
> ...


Difference is Mvdp does what , 50-60 starts a year? Nino does maybe 10, much easier to adjust your bad days around that


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Difference is Mvdp does what , 50-60 starts a year? Nino does maybe 10, much easier to adjust your bad days around that


Massively gifted relative to his peers then…..
Yeah keep sipping that koolaid


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> Massively gifted relative to his peers then…..
> Yeah keep sipping that koolaid


After living through mulitple TdF heroes being toppled, I am an odd mix between naively hopeful and watch with wide eyed wonder at some of these performances and then the kneejerk facepalm afterwards when the other side of my brain says, "you know they're cheating, right?" It makes me angry that I even have to have this internal battle because of choices that supposed professionals have made over and over. Yes... testing is better than ever. But I also believe that humans cheat. Not all of them. But it really ruins the whole thing for me and I wonder how it makes those who actually have a superhuman day feel? Look at Keegan Swensen. Legit? Or not? And it sucks that the question is even there.


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## MarkJ70 (May 31, 2006)

Seems in poor taste to me to accuse anyone of cheating unless you have evidence. I’m not saying to be naive - yes I’m sure some people cheat and are not caught. But seems ridiculous to accuse anyone in specific on a public forum simply based on good performance.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

Skier78 said:


> You are probably right, I don't know how this specific drug works, I just wanted to point out that bodybuilders and cyclists can use the same drugs for very different purposes and think that it helps them more or less.


In grad school, I did trace organic analytical chemistry. It is shockingly hard to detect organic chemicals in complex water mixtures at very low levels. As a result, I am always suspicious of drug testing without more info on the lab and concentrations. It just takes a couple minor mistakes and the lab can produce a false positive, especially at very low levels. Even the best labs in the world make mistakes. 

I'd like to know if the Zeranol concentrations are very high or not in Fluckingers A and B sample. 

USADA has a pretty good FAQ on Zeranol. USADA argues that it's almost impossible to get Zeranol contamination from meat consumption. Zeranol FAQ | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) What kind of weird meat was Fluck eating?

And why would he use this chemical? It seems like a really stupid one to use if you are trying to dope. Long half life, easy to detect and doesn't give you much benefit. If you wanna dope, the smart play is micro-dosing and TUE exemptions not Zeranol!


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

xcskier66 said:


> USADA has a pretty good FAQ on Zeranol. USADA argues that it's almost impossible to get Zeranol contamination from meat consumption. Zeranol FAQ | U.S. Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) What kind of weird meat was Fluck eating?
> 
> And why would he use this chemical? It seems like a really stupid one to use if you are trying to dope. Long half life, easy to detect and doesn't give you much benefit. If you wanna dope, the smart play is micro-dosing and TUE exemptions not Zeranol!


Wilson used the food contamination defence pretty successfully









Wilson stripped of American record after testing positive for zeranol


The United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) has announced that athlete Ajee Wilson has tested positive for zeranol and has been stripped of her 800 m...




www.insidethegames.biz





Agree that this particular PED alone makes no sense. If everyone on this thread who's saying they alway knew Fluckiger was a cheat since he got good, it ain't down to Zeralon. Micro-dosing, blood manipulation, plus the stuff that's so advanced it's not got a test/not been banned yet - that's where the big gains are.

Of course he might be doing that as well.


----------



## Vamp (10 mo ago)

MarkJ70 said:


> Seems in poor taste to me to accuse anyone of cheating unless you have evidence. I’m not saying to be naive - yes I’m sure some people cheat and are not caught. But seems ridiculous to accuse anyone in specific on a public forum simply based on good performance.



Yeah, it's weird. Especially the labelling by association - A has been caught, therefore B must be a cheat as well.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

As general rule I try and avoid doping discussions in forums. People tend to be really entrenched in their opinions. 

the 2nd most unfortunate part of modern anti doping is athletes who had no intention to dope are being caught for doping. Sometimes they did nothing wrong (tainted meet does actually happen), sometimes they were careless (tainted supplements).

the most unfortunate part is the trend of those without class to slander other athletes because someone they raced against tested positive.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

xcskier66 said:


> In grad school, I did trace organic analytical chemistry. It is shockingly hard to detect organic chemicals in complex water mixtures at very low levels. As a result, I am always suspicious of drug testing without more info on the lab and concentrations. It just takes a couple minor mistakes and the lab can produce a false positive, especially at very low levels. Even the best labs in the world make mistakes.
> 
> I'd like to know if the Zeranol concentrations are very high or not in Fluckingers A and B sample.
> 
> ...


This is why I feel results should not be released until the positive b sample. It is bad for the sport and can ruin a career.

That said… where there is smoke, there’s fire. And when top athletes are super human the accusations tend to follow (innocent or not). Unfortunately, that a part of the sport now.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> As general rule I try and avoid doping discussions in forums. People tend to be really entrenched in their opinions.
> 
> the 2nd most unfortunate part of modern anti doping is athletes who had no intention to dope are being caught for doping. Sometimes they did nothing wrong (tainted meet does actually happen), sometimes they were careless (tainted supplements).
> 
> the most unfortunate part is the trend of those without class to slander other athletes because someone they raced against tested positive.


How do you feel about the widespread off label use of non WADA banned drugs?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> How do you feel about the widespread off label use of non WADA banned drugs?


How do you know it is widespread?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Ar this stage he’s suspended pending the B sample result. For his sake and the sport I hope it’s a false positive. However that sudden rise to prominence will always raise eyebrows. At best this chemical is a form of growth hormone. So I wonder if it’s a remnant of a cocktail. It’s a very odd choice but after chatting to a few docs maybe not


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> How do you know it is widespread?


No certainty in the MTB world but have very close contacts in the road and gravel scenes. Both riders and team staff at pretty high levels. Just highly doubt that the MTB scene is much different.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> No certainty in the MTB world but have very close contacts in the road and gravel scenes. Both riders and team staff at pretty high levels. Just highly doubt that the MTB scene is much different.


It is funny. I have had 10 World Cup winners stay at my house and have personably coached 34wc racers and I have heard absolutely nothing about widespread drug use. 

If it is happening people are keeping it very quite.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> It is funny. I have had 10 World Cup winners stay at my house and have personably coached 34wc racers and I have heard absolutely nothing about widespread drug use.
> 
> If it is happening people are keeping it very quite.


You don't share secrets with just anyone. It sounds like you run a clean ship. I doubt that cheaters would confide in you.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> It is funny. I have had 10 World Cup winners stay at my house and have personably coached 34wc racers and I have heard absolutely nothing about widespread drug use.
> 
> If it is happening people are keeping it very quite.


Do you talk to your friends about what's in your medicine cabinet? I'm not talking about WADA banned substances.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN, just curious if you, as a coach, have read all of your athlete's contracts? I know of more than one rider who has a contract that explicitly states what privileged team info cannot be shared with a multitude of categories of individuals including their non team staffed coach.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Nobody broadcasts information if they’re flying close to the sun. Even Nairo didn’t know he was on tramadol….#justsaying


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

No one watched Pidcock take an easy Friday ride to the Euro world champs title? Pretty boring course, as it was in a park essentially. But man, he makes it look way too easy. He's guaranteed the stripes in a week. I don't see anyone being able to ride away from him 1/2 way through a race when he gets the urge to scoot.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

ShortTravelMag said:


> No one watched Pidcock take an easy Friday ride to the Euro world champs title? Pretty boring course, as it was in a park essentially. But man, he makes it look way too easy. He's guaranteed the stripes in a week. I don't see anyone being able to ride away from him 1/2 way through a race when he gets the urge to scoot.


It will be a rainbow jersey that people will only get to see a couple times next year.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

uintah said:


> It will be a rainbow jersey that people will only get to see a couple times next year.


Yep, pop in, win, disappear again for a few months. He always starts from the back, crashed at the start today, was back in the mid 30's for a lap, then just cruised up front and took off. He was practically crawling in the last 1/2 of the lap. Not even breathing hard. You could see the whole mood change when he got to the front group. Everyone else just had to let him go. Without a doubt the lamest track ever though.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I'm only a few minutes in but the coverage quality looks great. Good sign for next year.

I like the GCN road commentators, but it'll be interesting to see if they get MTB specific ones. They'll have to for DH at the very least.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

coverage was fine. The video cuts out for huge chunks of time towards the end, but that's always possible on a live event.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

What media was this broadcast on?


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

ShortTravelMag said:


> *Yep, pop in, win, disappear again for a few months.* He always starts from the back, crashed at the start today, was back in the mid 30's for a lap, then just cruised up front and took off. He was practically crawling in the last 1/2 of the lap. Not even breathing hard. You could see the whole mood change when he got to the front group. Everyone else just had to let him go. Without a doubt the lamest track ever though.


Riding the Tour de France isn't what I would really call "disappearing". He's just not focused on only MTB events.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> What media was this broadcast on?


GCN+ is where I watched it live. I joined GCN+ when it started just to watch cyclocross races while in Zwift, and a few shows (The Tom Ritchey one that just dropped is excellent). But now that I'm assuming they'll also show the world cups next year, I'm for sure going to keep it.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Eric F said:


> Riding the Tour de France isn't what I would really call "disappearing". He's just not focused on only MTB events.


That's what I meant. Obviously he's not disappearing from the bike world...just the mtb world. The world I care more about.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

ShortTravelMag said:


> That's what I meant. Obviously he's not disappearing from the bike world...just the mtb world. The world I care more about.


 I guess it's all about perspective. I watch MTB, road, and CX racing with pretty equal interest.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

ShortTravelMag said:


> No one watched Pidcock take an easy Friday ride to the Euro world champs title? Pretty boring course, as it was in a park essentially. But man, he makes it look way too easy. He's guaranteed the stripes in a week. I don't see anyone being able to ride away from him 1/2 way through a race when he gets the urge to scoot.


Pidcock choosing a hardtail (maybe others did, too?) says a lot about the challenges of the course. From the highlights I've seen, the technical bits were pretty weak.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

What technical bits…. Did you watch the course preview. It’s was shockingly devoid of what I’d call a technical feature.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

Vamp said:


> Wilson used the food contamination defence pretty successfully
> 
> 
> 
> ...


masking agent for what he was potentially really interested in using as PED or wasn't expecting Zeranol to be a tested for as a substance, there are other possibilities besides "it makes no sense due to somewhat negligible benefits"...


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

BoyinBlue said:


> masking agent for what he was potentially really interested in using as PED or wasn't expecting Zeranol to be a tested for as a substance, there are other possibilities besides "it makes no sense due to somewhat negligible benefits"...


I had a friend and former teammate test positive for strychnine back in the day. Talk about making "no sense due to somewhat negligible benefits". It was in his system for a reason. 😉


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## ligniteminer (May 10, 2012)

Do you use a VPN then?


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Brad said:


> What technical bits…. Did you watch the course preview. It’s was shockingly devoid of what I’d call a technical feature.


I haven't watched the course preview. The "bits" (not big enough to be called "sections") I saw were mostly fabricated boxes of dirt with a handful rocks tossed into them. Coming off the last WC at MSA, the Munich course is pretty sad. In reality it probably doesn't matter a lot. Pidcock is a skilled tech rider, too. His win today was going to happen regardless. His fitness is on a completely different level than the rest of the Euro Champ field.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

*LIVE 🔴 Mountainbike Cross Country 🚵 | DAY 9 | European Championships Munich 2022*
*www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHDIM7RSO6w*


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Do Euros give UCI XCO points?

Wonder if Pidcock will enter E bikes and XCC World's.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> Do you talk to your friends about what's in your medicine cabinet? I'm not talking about WADA banned substances.


Nope, I do not. And that is my point. Anybody who claims any sort of wide spread knowledge of what people are taking is just shooting their mouth off.

My only experience with doping is only how rigorous the whereabouts program and testing is. If you are a top level rider they come and test you a lot and they test you anywhere. I have problems imaging that anybody thinks they can get away with doping.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

LMN said:


> I have problems imaging that anybody thinks they can get away with doping.


Yet, they still try. History has shown us that the technology of detection is always trying to catch up to the technology of cheating.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

The latest XC Ski doping case from Seefeld was good example, many people got caught doing blood doping, but not due to positive tests, they only got caught thanks to "sources"
Which pretty much means blood doping is almost impossible to detect


No chance somebody is gonna challenge Pidcock at Worlds, unless he has a mechanical


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

That Euros course was very lame. I about spit my beer out on the start lap when the commentator called a dirt berm a technical feature. Must have been the same designer of the MSA short track.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mail_liam said:


> Do Euros give UCI XCO points?
> 
> Wonder if Pidcock will enter E bikes and XCC World's.


E-bikes, highly doubtful. XCC, I would expect.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> My only experience with doping is only how rigorous the whereabouts program and testing is. If you are a top level rider they come and test you a lot and they test you anywhere. I have problems imaging that anybody thinks they can get away with doping.


First of all, I have a ton of respect for yourself and your wife's involvement in the sport, this is nothing personal, but if you really believe that last part, I find it pretty naive.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

uintah said:


> That Euros course was very lame. I about spit my beer out on the start lap when the commentator called a dirt berm a technical feature. Must have been the same designer of the MSA short track.


Yea, it's literally a Hardtail Ride in the Park. 
Oh well, it's bike racing and that's always better than nothing at all.
The announcer is definitely from the Road Cycling World.


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

BoyinBlue said:


> masking agent for what he was potentially really interested in using as PED or wasn't expecting Zeranol to be a tested for as a substance, there are other possibilities besides "it makes no sense due to somewhat negligible benefits"...


Except it's spectacularly useless as a masking substance for the reasons already mentioned. It's banned, has a long half-life and is easily detected.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

No matter the outcome of the Fluckiger's B-Sample I can't see this as good for the sport in general.
Catching the cheaters is good but the negative stigma of its continued existence is awfully hard to overcome.
People to this day still have preconceptions about cycling because of the Armstrong incident.
During the EU Men's MTB Race they've mentioned it at least a dozen times and it's only an hour into the coverage.
If there's a positive to this I'm not seeing it. Maybe in the long run, hopefully.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Eric F said:


> E-bikes, highly doubtful. XCC, I would expect.


He might like the idea of four Rainbow Jerseys rather than three (if we're to believe he's unstoppable in the XCO). He's definitely good enough to win the XCC, but I think there's a lot of variability in play there. 

I still can't work out what his start position will be. 

Anyone know what the Les Gets course is looking like?


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

uintah said:


> That Euros course was very lame. I about spit my beer out on the start lap when the commentator called a dirt berm a technical feature. Must have been the same designer of the MSA short track.


Even better is the pump track. It literally was a few little dirt piles in a row. Classic.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mail_liam said:


> He might like the idea of four Rainbow Jerseys rather than three (if we're to believe he's unstoppable in the XCO). He's definitely good enough to win the XCC, but I think there's a lot of variability in play there.
> 
> I still can't work out what his start position will be.
> 
> Anyone know what the Les Gets course is looking like?


The 3 rainbow jerseys I'd like to see for him are CX (done), XCO, and Road.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

For Tomorrow.... The Ladies....
*LIVE 🔴 Mountainbike Cross Country 🚵 | DAY 10 | European Championships Munich 2022*
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb40XiKVAkE


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

A couple comments:

Whereabouts forms are a pain in the ass (seriously). On the flip side, at least it can be pretty amusing to have someone watch you pee in a public toilet, especially if it’s busy. Of course, if someone is not getting caught, then they probably have a system that is robust to random testing. 

Regarding MF. To test positive for a substance that is not (currently) known to have particular benefits while being pretty easy to detect is certainly surprising. Looking (briefly) at the science, it seems a few things:

positive tests for zeranol are not common
testing for zeranol is fairly well developed also for livestock for two reasons
- it’s a banned substance in the EU
- it’s a mycotoxin produced by fungi that contaminate grain products (wheat, corn - been observed worldwide), which can lead to positive tests in livestock

- importantly, consuming the drug zeranol yields a demonstrably different metabolic profile compared to consuming the naturally produced mycotoxin. Also, it could come from grains, not just beef. 

In other words, it is generally possible to differentiate between accidental and intentional consumption by looking at the downstream metabolic products. Whether they already did this or not already we don’t know, of course, but it seems reasonable to expect that it will be done and the end result will be pretty clear one way or the other. 

If anyone wants to see the primary source, it’s a paper specifically looking at zeranol in the context of doping:



https://doi.org/10.1002/dta.352



You only get the abstract, but you can paste the link into sci-hub.se to download the full paper (legal in CH, not necessarily elsewhere - please don’t break the law). 

Figure 2 c and d visually illustrate how one can differentiate between the two different sources. 

Overall, their discussion sums it up well:

“The issue of mycotoxin contamination as a well-established phenomenon in food and veterinary control analyses might also apply to sports drug testing. According to reviews particularly considering the occurrence of zearalenone in foods and feeds – for example, the findings of infested wheat, barley, corn – has been reported for numerous countries of all continents in the last decade, and consequently, the ingestion of contaminated cereal products by athletes is a scenario to exclude.[8,14] The fact that no adverse analytical findings for zeranol were reported worldwide for several years substantiates the rarity of incidences where humans (rather than animals) are affected. Moreover, rather low urinary concentrations of zeranol as found in the doping control specimens might have contributed to a limited number of adverse analytical findings. 

“Nevertheless, the possibility should be taken into account when zeranol is detected in sports drug testing samples, and the approach towards a differentiation between mycotoxin and anabolic agent administration by means of metabolite profiling seems adequate for doping control purposes also. Hence, suspicious initial testing results for zeranol should carefully be investigated concerning the presence or absence of derivatives being indicative for a zearalenone and/or zearalenol ingestion.”

Sorry for the long post. There’s been quite some speculation going on and this sort of thing is a real bummer for many people, so just wanted to provide some extra information for those interested. Hopefully the people responsible are thorough (would have to imagine they are aware of this paper by now, or will be shortly) and will be able to stand on their results one way or another. And, perhaps, now we will also be able to better understand any interpretation. 

For now, for me (even as a general cynic), the jury remains very much out.

(Edit to remove a typo, probably there are more. Don’t ask me how I managed this on a phone.)


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Eric F said:


> The 3 rainbow jerseys I'd like to see for him are CX (done), XCO, and Road.


Sure, but why not four (or five) 🙃. I don't much care for him winning the three main ones, it's impressive of course, but as mentioned above, he's not going to race much in the rainbow XC jersey.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

mail_liam said:


> Sure, but why not four (or five) 🙃. I don't much care for him winning the three main ones, it's impressive of course, but as mentioned above, he's not going to race much in the rainbow XC jersey.


Why stop there? Time for him to get on the track.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mail_liam said:


> Sure, but why not four (or five) 🙃. I don't much care for him winning the three main ones, it's impressive of course, but as mentioned above, he's not going to race much in the rainbow XC jersey.


E-bike world champ was a minor stepping stone in his development. It would be kind of lame to go back to that now.

Win Road, CX, and MTB world champs, and you're ALWAYS wearing the stripes! That would be pretty cool.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Eric F said:


> E-bike world champ was a minor stepping stone in his development. It would be kind of lame to go back to that now.
> 
> Win Road, CX, and MTB world champs, and you're ALWAYS wearing the stripes! That would be pretty cool.


He'd need to get both XCO and XCC titles to always be in stripes on the mtb.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Eric F said:


> E-bike world champ was a minor stepping stone in his development. It would be kind of lame to go back to that now.
> 
> Win Road, CX, and MTB world champs, and you're ALWAYS wearing the stripes! That would be pretty cool.


I get it, and I'm being a little facetious, but the three world champs jerseys are already a Teeny bit arbitrary.

It'll be impressive, and a big challenge (mainly the road race), but if we're saying three jerseys is incredible, and he has the opportunity to grab another one or two for low risk, why not.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> GCN+ is where I watched it live. I joined GCN+ when it started just to watch cyclocross races while in Zwift, and a few shows (The Tom Ritchey one that just dropped is excellent). But now that I'm assuming they'll also show the world cups next year, I'm for sure going to keep it.


Dammit, geoblocked in NZ...
Fcukin Sky TV


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

I watch the GCN Racing Show quite often and it seems like every race they announce is blocked in NZ.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Watching it on the youtube link now 
I like the course. Not a traditional XCO course by any means, but you use what you can.
CX course on steroids and lacking mud, sand and snow.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

Vamp said:


> Except it's spectacularly useless as a masking substance for the reasons already mentioned. It's banned, has a long half-life and is easily detected.


So are a lot of other pharmaceuticals and they show up resulting in an athletic ban anyways.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

NordieBoy said:


> Watching it on the youtube link now
> I like the course. Not a traditional XCO course by any means, but you use what you can.
> CX course on steroids and lacking mud, sand and snow.


Yeah, take out the rock sections, (which don't look permanent) and you've got what is basically a CX course; probably hillier than most, but no surprise the current CX World Champion won the race. 
And of course Munich hosted the 1997 CX Worlds.


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

Duplicate


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

BoyinBlue said:


> So are a lot of other pharmaceuticals and they show up resulting in an athletic ban anyways.


Yes, but you have to ask yourself why, right?


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

As a very part-time MTB racer, who does Tom have working for him to help him decide what frame and tires to use on courses? For the European Championships he was using a hardtail with some Continental tires I'd never heard of. Seems like for a roadie he comes to these races fully prepared.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

Vamp said:


> Yes, but you have to ask yourself why, right?


not really, different physiologies can react to different treatments. Whatever doctor he is working with may believe it was resulting in a performance benefit.


----------



## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Stonerider said:


> As a very part-time MTB racer, who does Tom have working for him to help him decide what frame and tires to use on courses? For the European Championships he was using a hardtail with some Continental tires I'd never heard of. Seems like for a roadie he comes to these races fully prepared.


At least before the olympics it was a mix of people from Continental, Suntour and Ineos doing timed testing with him (there was a video of it). He seems to have a good idea of how he wants the bike to feel so he probably tests a lot of different parts. It is probably an advantage that he can choose whatever frame and wheels he want, the twostroke he had yesterday is really nice for a hardtail.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Skier78 said:


> At least before the Olympics it was a mix of people from Continental, Suntour and Ineos doing timed testing with him (there was a video of it). He seems to have a good idea of how he wants the bike to feel so he probably tests a lot of different parts. It is probably an advantage that he can choose whatever frame and wheels he want, the twostroke he had yesterday is really nice for a hardtail.


One presumes they tested all kinds of manufacturers before making their choices featured in that video last year. And Ineos can splash the cash on the best equipment.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RexRacerX said:


> A couple comments:
> 
> Whereabouts forms are a pain in the ass (seriously). On the flip side, at least it can be pretty amusing to have someone watch you pee in a public toilet, especially if it’s busy. Of course, if someone is not getting caught, then they probably have a system that is robust to random testing.
> 
> ...


 Thanks this is a good insight


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Wtf, they removed even the only remotely technical sections from womens race

Probably worst type of track for Lecomte but still win, hard to see anybody beating Lecomte and Pidcock at the worlds, other podium spots seem pretty open for both classes

EDIT: I skipped some racing so take my words back, Pauline was actually leading before chainsuuck


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Stonerider said:


> As a very part-time MTB racer, who does Tom have working for him to help him decide what frame and tires to use on courses? For the European Championships he was using a hardtail with some Continental tires I'd never heard of. Seems like for a roadie he comes to these races fully prepared.


Tom had said he is really a mountain biker. And when he shows up to race XCOs he is always prepared. I wouldn't consider him a roadie. He is jst a biker who happens to mostly race road and cyclecross.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

Exmuhle said:


> Yeah, take out the rock sections, (which don't look permanent) and you've got what is basically a CX course; probably hillier than most, but no surprise the current CX World Champion won the race.
> And of course Munich hosted the 1997 CX Worlds.


I know it an unpopular opinion but you need all kinds of courses. Sometimes an easy course that rewards fitness, other times a course that takes out the entire field. That said championship courses should be in between.

Another level to this… do you want a crazy course right before worlds? Sometimes an easier course saves the legs for down the line.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The course was a little silly. But seemed fine. Pidcock and Lacomte when they are in good form seem untouchable.

Loana said she was taking it easier this year to peak for World's, looking forward to how right she got it. 

A ton of athletes are "aiming for Worlds" so it should be a very good race for second.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

The course was at least incredibly spectator friendly. This is often not true of most highly technical XCO courses. Tokyo got the balance right I thought. Birmingham and Munich not so much


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

FortOrdMTB said:


> I know it an unpopular opinion but you need all kinds of courses. Sometimes an easy course that rewards fitness, other times a course that takes out the entire field. That said championship courses should be in between.
> 
> Another level to this… do you want a crazy course right before worlds? Sometimes an easier course saves the legs for down the line.


I agree - I'm actually someone who likes variety in courses; whether climbing heavy, or technically challenging courses - or something in the middle. And in an ideal world, the Euros wouldn't be 1 week before the Worlds.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Disagree. Different courses are fine...but they should still be MTB. That course is an embarrassment.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Every course is technical. Some are hard to ride, some are hard to ride fast.

Years ago I remember going to ride in Colorado. By my standards the trails were super easy, well at least until I tried to follow a local down them. Emphasis on tried.

I like to see a big variety of courses. And honestly some of the most compelling races happen on courses that are considered easy.


----------



## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

LMN said:


> Every course is technical. Some are hard to ride, some are hard to ride fast.
> 
> Years ago I remember going to ride in Colorado. By my standards the trails were super easy, well at least until I tried to follow a local down them. Emphasis on tried.
> 
> I like to see a big variety of courses. And honestly some of the most compelling races happen on courses that are considered easy.


I completely agree. It's hilarious to hear some of our local riders complain that the trails here are "too easy" - then you check Strava and realize they averaged 8 MPH on a rolling trail while riding a 150mm trail bike. We averaged 14.7 for 90 minutes in a race on the same trail last weekend... with roots, erosion damage and a turn seemingly every 5 feet. Anything is "technical" when you add high speed and fatigue.


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

cassieno said:


> Tom had said he is really a mountain biker. And when he shows up to race XCOs he is always prepared. I wouldn't consider him a roadie. He is jst a biker who happens to mostly race road and cyclecross.


He's a cyclist who spends most of his time racing what pays best. I'd do the same if I had his talent. He's a hell of an all-around athlete.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> Disagree. Different courses are fine...but they should still be MTB. That course is an embarrassment.


Agree and the mud shouldn’t be it’s salvation


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## Vamp (10 mo ago)

I liked the course, but then I'm a CX rider at heart. There is a bit of gnar snobbery displayed here. There's room for different types of courses guys.

Lecomte is definitely beatable by PFT, who needs to devote a bit of time to chain replacement practice. Man that was painful to watch.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

So, here’s an interesting screen grab from the elite women’s race at euros:



http://imgur.com/OhjV4EF


If those little red flags were actually the course markers, then…what?

Credit: someone in the Pinkbike comments, of all places. 

(To avoid being clickbait, it appears to show lecomte outside the course markers, but perhaps they changed the rules for the rain? No clue - haven’t watched yet.)

Edit: guess the clickbait parenthetical was redundant…


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

RexRacerX said:


> So, here’s an interesting screen grab from the elite women’s race at euros:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh. Yeah. That’s not running off course on accident; that’s straight up cheating.

I doubt PFP will dime her countrywoman out but someone else might.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> Oh. Yeah. That’s not running off course on accident; that’s straight up cheating.
> 
> I doubt PFP will dime her countrywoman out but someone else might.
> 
> ...


There's quite a few tracks outside the flags. "It's not cheating if we all do it!"


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

RexRacerX said:


> So, here’s an interesting screen grab from the elite women’s race at euros:


Interesting for sure. Watching the mens replay I noticed Pidcock did it too making the move to the front on lap 4. Sorry for the crude zoomed in photo of my TV…


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

RexRacerX said:


> So, here’s an interesting screen grab from the elite women’s race at euros:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I thought I noticed all of the top four outside the red markers at various points. Possibly it wasn't enforced, whether they were told so in advance 🤷‍♂️.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> I thought I noticed all of the top four outside the red markers at various points.


Maybe that's why they finished top 4?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Markers like that can only be guidelines surely?



RexRacerX said:


> So, here’s an interesting screen grab from the elite women’s race at euros:
> If those little red flags were actually the course markers, then…what?
> 
> Credit: someone in the Pinkbike comments, of all places.
> ...


----------



## Vamp (10 mo ago)

Everyone was riding outside those markers at various points. It's almost like they were designed to allow that. 

At that point on the climb the mud was very claggy and sticking to the bikes a lot. Its where PFP lost her chain (presumably due to too much mud on chain ring). Riding on the grass was the sensible option.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Markers like that can only be guidelines surely?


They are suppose to be like flagging. They use them at Olympics so tape doesn’t interfere with coverage. If you go out side of them it better be an accident and you have to cross them asap.


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

What happened to Loana when PFP dropped her before dropping her chain?


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I can't say whether those tiny flags were intended to be firm markers or not, but with the pouring rain and muddy glasses, I don't think it would be reasonable to expect riders to see them. That looks like bad design rather than premeditated cheating IMO.

ETA: I was wondering about Mitterwallner's poor result and her social media says she got Covid in the last week. That means she's had it twice in 2022, yikes. I was hoping for a head-to-head battle between her and Lecomte next week.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

So is it a DQ (on purpose or not)?

If a course marker why even have them if you aren’t going to enforce them? Why not move them up the hill a few feet?


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

cassieno said:


> The course was a little silly. But seemed fine. Pidcock and Lacomte when they are in good form seem untouchable.
> 
> Loana said she was taking it easier this year to peak for World's, looking forward to how right she got it.
> 
> A ton of athletes are "aiming for Worlds" so it should be a very good race for second.


We must’ve been watching different races because PFP’s mechanical changed the tides of the race. Did Pauline go too early and Loana was patient? We can’t answer that. But, I doubt Loana would’ve let Pauline build a 30s gap by choice.

I think worlds stands to be an exciting race for the women for sure. Even if only between two of them.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

The commentator kept calling Vos the GOAT, even in comparison to Pauline. Is this just him clearly being from a road background, or is there some merit to it? To me, three concurrent worlds titles is some really thin air.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Definitely a Road & Track Cycling Announcer. Very little MTB knowledge and kept running back to home turf when he didn't have anything else to say.
Yesterday he brought up the MF Doping issue about a dozen times in the first hour of the broadcast. 
Compared to Rob & Bart it was pretty bad, but once again, better than nothing.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> The commentator kept calling Vos the GOAT, even in comparison to Pauline. Is this just him clearly being from a road background, or is there some merit to it? To me, three concurrent worlds titles is some really thin air.


To be fair, although Vos doesn't have much to show on the MTB side, she does have 24 world championship medals, including 14 world championship golds, across three disciplines in road, CX, and track. Pick your flavour of really thin air, but if being the GOAT is a total accumulation of career results across multiple disciplines, rather than a large portion of her major accomplishments squeezed within a 1-year peak, then Vos has a legit claim for women's cycling GOAT.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Circlip said:


> To be fair, although Vos doesn't have much to show on the MTB side, she does have 24 world championship medals, including 14 world championship golds, across three disciplines in road, CX, and track. Pick your flavour of really thin air, but if being the GOAT is a total accumulation of career results across multiple disciplines, rather than a large portion of her major accomplishments squeezed within a 1-year peak, then Vos has a legit claim for women's cycling GOAT.


This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Re the course markers, the course was changed due to the rain. Riders were allowed to skip the fake rock garden and go outside corse markers in that climb due to the mud and it did not create a shortcut. They had to take the corners wile respecting the course markers so as to not create a shortcut.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

bikeranzin said:


> This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks.


Vos is the goat for sure!


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Surprised no mention of the Proffix Cup from last night.

KC looked good against an admittedly shallow field.

Cooper looked pretty good for coming out of Covid. He will need to be several large steps better come Les Gets to be a factor 🤞.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

bikeranzin said:


> We must’ve been watching different races because PFP’s mechanical changed the tides of the race. Did Pauline go too early and Loana was patient? We can’t answer that. But, I doubt Loana would’ve let Pauline build a 30s gap by choice.
> 
> I think worlds stands to be an exciting race for the women for sure. Even if only between two of them.


I think the gap was 16sec at the point of the chain suck issue. Pauline just put the hammer down the previous lap and Loana didn’t go with her ( for what ever reason). In those conditions going too fast isn’t always smart. Faster means more mud build up and that slows you down. Key to to a fast wet race is finding a pace that is comfortable to maintain without clogging up your bike


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

le_pedal said:


> Vos is the goat for sure!


But not on a MTB, which was a step too far for her....


----------



## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

TwincamRob said:


> Interesting for sure. Watching the mens replay I noticed Pidcock did it too making the move to the front on lap 4. Sorry for the crude zoomed in photo of my TV…
> 
> View attachment 1996408


Where's the course markers? I see a fence.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> Where's the course markers? I see a fence.


The fence and stakes are the regulated course markers not the little orange tags on the ground


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Neff is the only one who can throw a wrench in LL/PFP train and derail it...I would love to see Jenny win, but being sick doesn't help at all. 

I only see Pidcock beating Nino...Colombo, Caroud and Valero will make it interesting. 

U23:

Puck or Line...

Vidaurre and the rest of the field...

XCC:

Alan, Colombo and maybe Luca...

Pauline, Neff or Keller...


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I think Loana will take the women's and I'm hoping for Nino for the men's, but for some reason the men's race feels more open. I have a sense we could see an upset there.

I bet Courtney will be P5 - she's been knocking on the door for another podium and she's won at Les Gets before. I wish Rissveds were in full health because she could compete for the win.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

bikeranzin said:


> He'd need to get both XCO and XCC titles to always be in stripes on the mtb.


I get it. He'd need also need the TT title for the road.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

So....No MVDP in MTB for the rest of the season?


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

geez if Fluck is +ive, imagine how p!ssed Nino will feel


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

It looks like most of the countries where Red Bull TV is streaming World Champs don't have English as a national or official language: UCI MTB World Champs 2022 live stream restrictions

Elsewhere on the page, there's a link to a stream for Albania, Slovakia, Sweden, and the UK that seems to promise English commentary. Will it be Rob, though? Trying to figure out which one to use here and it shouldn't be this hard...


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Brad said:


> I think the gap was 16sec at the point of the chain suck issue. Pauline just put the hammer down the previous lap and Loana didn’t go with her ( for what ever reason). In those conditions going too fast isn’t always smart. Faster means more mud build up and that slows you down. Key to to a fast wet race is finding a pace that is comfortable to maintain without clogging up your bike


Closer to ~30 seconds. I think Pauline was on attempt 3 of getting the chain line running by the time LL came by. Point being, this wasn't a signature LL time-trial-off-the-front race where one might make the claim that she's the clear favorite for worlds. More evidence to that fact was just that PFP was maintaining the gap in the latter part of the race. So, my guess is that they're similarly prepared for this weekend.


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

roth88 said:


> It looks like most of the countries where Red Bull TV is streaming World Champs don't have English as a national or official language: UCI MTB World Champs 2022 live stream restrictions


Thanks for that. Looks like Australia's on the blocked list; anyone know where I can watch it here?


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## guyc (May 12, 2007)

That Red Bull page is basically a reference guide for which countries to pick when connecting your VPN.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

mostlyeels said:


> Thanks for that. Looks like Australia's on the blocked list; anyone know where I can watch it here?


Do you have GCN+? If you watch road cycling it's going to be available on the same platform.


In other news, New Zealand has a team for the XCR. A young team that won't challenge the likes of the Swiss, or French, but it's still exciting. It's such a shame they don't cover it and put it on YouTube as a rule. One of the most interesting races to watch is the XCR from a few years ago where the Aussies changed up the order and tried to blow the race open early.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

mostlyeels said:


> Thanks for that. Looks like Australia's on the blocked list; anyone know where I can watch it here?


Pinkbike had quite a nice summary of how to watch by country for the 2021 worlds. I expect the same media contracts are larger in place this year:



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/how-to-watch-the-2021-mountain-bike-world-championships-from-val-di-sole.html



That includes a list of countries that should have (have had) access to the Red Bull stream. 

“In many instances, the broadcast licensing agreements allow Red Bull to broadcast the World Championship XC and DH races, and in those places, you will be able to watch the World Championships as you would during any World Cup race weekend. Globally, however, it's a bit of patchwork as some countries are not included, most notably the USA, Canada, New Zealand and South Africa.”

So, in principle, if the global Red Bull website sees that your internet location is on that list, you will be able to watch one of the last races commentated by Rob and Bart. 

For what it’s worth, if you happen to visit the Red Bull site of a geoblocked country, even if the internet knows you are not in said country, you may have issues watching. This can occur if you travel a lot and your browser remembers the URL (web address) of the Red Bull site from a geoblocked country you’ve visited. Try an incognito browser or deleting cookies if that happens when it shouldn’t. 

On a completely unrelated note, Pinkbike also provided an internet security briefing around the same time. Please take your internet security seriously and consider staying extra safe this weekend. 



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/pinkbikes-annual-vpn-internet-safety-briefing.html



Edit (like always, it seems): due to a reading comprehension fail, the 2022 list of non-geoblocked countries is the Red Bull link quoted. Stay internet safe!


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mail_liam said:


> I get it, and I'm being a little facetious, but the three world champs jerseys are already a Teeny bit arbitrary.
> 
> It'll be impressive, and a big challenge (mainly the road race), but if we're saying three jerseys is incredible, and he has the opportunity to grab another one or two for low risk, why not.


While he's at it, here's another WC jersey for Pidcock! 





(I'm today years old when I learned that this event existed...and has a World Cup series...and a World Championship title)


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Eric F said:


> While he's at it, here's another WC jersey for Pidcock!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He could do it too.

I've actually been watching them on YouTube recently since they added an XCE race at my A Race in October. (Whaka 100 - NZ)

It's actually entertaining and some cool wee courses. 

The Turkey one was good with a steep wee hill. They are sprinting like absolute maniacs. It makes sense why Loic Bruni was able to do so well when he rocked up to one.


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## Cardy George (Dec 3, 2020)

mostlyeels said:


> Thanks for that. Looks like Australia's on the blocked list; anyone know where I can watch it here?


We watched it on SBS, which had the added benefit of watching it through On Demand, but the commentary was freaking horrible.


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> Do you have GCN+? If you watch road cycling it's going to be available on the same platform.


Sadly no, though I do have Kayo (Foxtel). Wonder if they carry it (they carry some other cycling)?



RexRacerX said:


> Pinkbike had quite a nice summary of how to watch by country for the 2021 worlds. I expect the same media contracts are larger in place this year:


Cheers for that.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

guyc said:


> That Red Bull page is basically a reference guide for which countries to pick when connecting your VPN.


Wish they had information about commentary language, though. I guess it's likely the same as for the non-georestricted events, but would be nice to confirm before I screw around with the VPN.


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

roth88 said:


> Wish they had information about commentary language, though. I guess it's likely the same as for the non-georestricted events, but would be nice to confirm before I screw around with the VPN.











UCI Mountain Bike World Championships (English and French commentary)


The UCI Mountain Bike World Championships makes a triumphant return to the valley of Les Gets, France. Watch the downhill and cross-country racing live from August 27-28, 2022.




www.redbull.com





You're from the UK now, mate.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

dysfunction said:


> UCI Mountain Bike World Championships (English and French commentary)
> 
> 
> The UCI Mountain Bike World Championships makes a triumphant return to the valley of Les Gets, France. Watch the downhill and cross-country racing live from August 27-28, 2022.
> ...


Thanks - shockingly hard to find that link on Redbull TV (I couldn't find it on the mobile app or on Roku). I wish they'd just list it under the 2022 season! As much as I'll miss Rob and Bart's commentary, I won't miss the crappy Redbull TV interface.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

mostlyeels said:


> Thanks for that. Looks like Australia's on the blocked list; anyone know where I can watch it here?


SBS on demand I would say


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

yeah, SBS...I dont want to say, unfortunately...as they do do a lot for cycling, but generally the coverage is average... we will see I guess.


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I can't see it listed  only last year shows up. I have also noticed Australia has been taken off the geo list on the RedBull listing posted before.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think it's been said before, but the UCI sells the Worlds (Roads,Track, MTB, CX, etc) as a package - so whoever covers the Road Worlds in your country, will likely be the rights holders. Whether they show the MTB Worlds live is another matter.

Here in the UK, it looks likely we'll have the choice of three streams RBTV, BBC iPlayer and GCN/Eurosport.



le_pedal said:


> So....No MvdP in MTB for the rest of the season?


It was announced quite early in the season there'd be no MTB for him this year; a shame really, another MTB Worlds he's missed. Hope we see him next year as he'll (and the Netherlands) need the points going forward for the Olympics.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

theMISSIONARY said:


> I can't see it listed  only last year shows up. I have also noticed Australia has been taken off the geo list on the RedBull listing posted before.


last year OZ was listed as a country you could stream the worlds from RBtv, right up until about 2 days before or something. very annoying


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> It was announced quite early in the season there'd be no MTB for him this year; a shame really, another MTB Worlds he's missed. Hope we see him next year as he'll (and the Netherlands) need the points going forward for the Olympics.


I wonder if MvdP will do any CX races this winter. He seems to be searching to find out what type of racer he is...stage racing is not it. He seems to be left weakened with lots of fatigue from stage racing. I hope he figures it out because I miss 2019 MvdP.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Here's a question for those of you who've been there (Worlds)--how does the team support work? Are the trade teams providing support for each of their riders, or is there a national team set of mechanics, etc.?

For example, Trek, Scott, and Specialized all have riders from USA, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, etc. Do they stick with that setup or are the riders from each country working with a set of mechanics, etc from their home country?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> I wonder if MvdP will do any CX races this winter. He seems to be searching to find out what type of racer he is...stage racing is not it. He seems to be left weakened with lots of fatigue from stage racing. I hope he figures it out because I miss 2019 MvdP.


MVDP isn't tired from stage racing. It's his knee op then coming back too fast too hard, with a classics campaign, followed by a 3 week grand tour where he performed admirably. then into a training blok and back into a grand tour. Possibly the worst maintained Porsche on the planet!!



celswick said:


> Here's a question for those of you who've been there (Worlds)--how does the team support work? Are the trade teams providing support for each of their riders, or is there a national team set of mechanics, etc.?
> 
> For example, Trek, Scott, and Specialized all have riders from USA, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, etc. Do they stick with that setup or are the riders from each country working with a set of mechanics, etc from their home country?


The National teams provide support. Often the riders will bring their trade team mechanic along if that person is not already attached to their own national Team.
E.g the South Africa team has two mechanics but Alan will have JP along with him to support his Scalpel.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

celswick said:


> Here's a question for those of you who've been there (Worlds)--how does the team support work? Are the trade teams providing support for each of their riders, or is there a national team set of mechanics, etc.?
> 
> For example, Trek, Scott, and Specialized all have riders from USA, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, etc. Do they stick with that setup or are the riders from each country working with a set of mechanics, etc from their home country?


National Federations handle almost everything and provide support for athletes, but trade teams and manufacturers can provide some level of support outside of the race like spare parts and tech. Not during the race though. You can see in social media that trade teammates will often train together.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Forecast looks pretty wet for the end of the week/weekend.

Might get a dry XCC, but looking like a wet XCO.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

celswick said:


> Here's a question for those of you who've been there (Worlds)--how does the team support work? Are the trade teams providing support for each of their riders, or is there a national team set of mechanics, etc.?
> 
> For example, Trek, Scott, and Specialized all have riders from USA, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, etc. Do they stick with that setup or are the riders from each country working with a set of mechanics, etc from their home country?


I know of at least one factory team that is housing all of their riders together, away from their national teams to avoid unnecessary contact with the dozens of riders and staff from their respective Feds that they are unfamiliar with. Covid is still real.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

How dare you say Covid is real. It's like "he who must not be named" if you don't say it's name it can't hurt you. /S


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Has anyone seen a start list for the relay?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Well, how many people missed races because of COVID-19 in the MTB world? Quite a few, and yet, you could test positive and still race at the Tour...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

cassieno said:


> How dare you say Covid is real. It's like "he who must not be named" if you don't say it's name it can't hurt you. /S


I love that jab...kinda like Beetlejuice!!!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

celswick said:


> Here's a question for those of you who've been there (Worlds)--how does the team support work? Are the trade teams providing support for each of their riders, or is there a national team set of mechanics, etc.?
> 
> For example, Trek, Scott, and Specialized all have riders from USA, Switzerland, Italy, Austria, etc. Do they stick with that setup or are the riders from each country working with a set of mechanics, etc from their home country?


It is complex. Pro-teams and federations have to work together.

Typically riders with pro-teams travel and stay with their team. But come race day they have to work with the federation. There are not a enough pit passes for a mechanic and feeder to only support a single rider.

The trend nowadays is for federations to handle all the feeding and mechanics at international events. It is a good thing, because getting pit-passes at the olympics is extremely difficult/impossible for pro-teams. Riders and federation staff have to be comfortable working together.

Often federation staff is almost more experienced than pro-teams. Last year for Canada the mechanics were the head mechanic for Rocky Enduro team, the head mechanic for the Cliff team, and the former head mechanic for Trek (now works for the Rocky Enduro team).


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

The Covid infections from each race this year have been absolutely wild. The winners of world championships are going to be those who recovered the quickest from being sick.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

uintah said:


> Has anyone seen a start list for the relay?


It would only have been finalised at 20:00 (GMT+2) (rider list have to be submitted by the team administrators by 19h30(CET) so likely only available by 9pm


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I was pretty surprised not to see more crowd avoidance and mask-wearing among the World Cup crowd throughout the season as the infections mounted up. SOOOO many had to miss multiple races and/or tons of training - that's a huge cost!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

That is an indirect result when people politicize health. We all saw how the Olympic MTB event was handled, but everything changed a year later. I really hope no one gets sick and misses the race (like any other? Jenny?).


----------



## Blackies Pasture (Mar 3, 2015)

mostlyeels said:


> Thanks for that. Looks like Australia's on the blocked list; anyone know where I can watch it here?


use Opera browser with built in VPN


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

So when will UCI make some kind of judgment on Matthias Flueckiger and whether to invalidate his race results after the positive doping result? Won't we need to know in terms of points for the overall? That's assuming it's a true positive, of course, but it seems like time is running out to make a determination.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> So when will UCI make some kind of judgment on Matthias Flueckiger and whether to invalidate his race results after the positive doping result? Won't we need to know in terms of points for the overall? That's assuming it's a true positive, of course, but it seems like time is running out to make a determination.


I think it is a fair to assume it is a true positive (WADA is pretty darn good at their testing nowadays), whether it was intentional doping or accidental, I am sure, is to be determined. But either way it shouldn't effect WC points.

He will lose any results from when he tested positive and I don't believe he raced any world cups in that time.

The unknown is how long his suspension will be. If it was accidental, assuming he can show it was, 6-12 months seems to be norm. Otherwise 2-4 years.


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## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

For those not on Pinkbike, there is a good interview/article with PFP



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/profile-pauline-ferrand-prevot-on-training-with-cecile-ravanel-depression-disordered-eating-and-more.html


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> Disagree. Different courses are fine...but they should still be MTB. That course is an embarrassment.


The European Championships course in Munich was fairly terrible after watching the replays. It was a lot of grass and what looked like some bits of the triathlon course.

I thought the chicane made of beer barrels to weave through was quite inventive though, plus they had that one huge jump over the downhill bridge for the riders to go off.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

LMN said:


> I think it is a fair to assume it is a true positive (WADA is pretty darn good at their testing nowadays), whether it was intentional doping or accidental, I am sure, is to be determined. But either way it shouldn't effect WC points.
> 
> He will lose any results from when he tested positive and I don't believe he raced any world cups in that time.
> 
> The unknown is how long his suspension will be. If it was accidental, assuming he can show it was, 6-12 months seems to be norm. Otherwise 2-4 years.


If he raced Leogang and Lenzerheide after testing positive (since his positive test date was June 3), would those get invalidated? He won Leogang and was on the podium in Lenzerheide.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

WR304 said:


> The European Championships course in Munich was fairly terrible after watching the replays. It was a lot of grass and what looked like some bits of the triathlon course.
> 
> I thought the chicane made of beer barrels to weave through was quite inventive though, plus they had that one huge jump over the downhill bridge for the riders to go off.


They needed to be more aggressive with their fencing/taping of the course there. You could see that and the root section the intention was the riders to have to cross the "feature". In reality they threaded around it where the tape wasn't.


Am I right in thinking XCC Qualification was last night?


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> If he raced Leogang and Lenzerheide after testing positive (since his positive test date was June 3), would those get invalidated? He won Leogang and was on the podium in Lenzerheide.


I thought the date was july 3rd. But if it is June 3rd then all those results will not count.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah, it was June 3rd at the Swiss Championships. Nino gets a WC win if his results are invalidated I think.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

XC Relay....already run, sadly as expected, no live stream was provided. Not good enough in 2022.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Exmuhle said:


> XC Relay....already run, sadly as expected, no live stream was provided. Not good enough in 2022.


Results?
Edit: found them


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Swiss, Italy and the USA...pretty close gaps. Bigger gaps after the top 3.


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> Yeah, it was June 3rd at the Swiss Championships. Nino gets a WC win if his results are invalidated I think.


Yeah, it sounds like it, but it seems like UCI should make that call soon since it will also affect the overall standings. Racers will want to know the revised points before Val di Sole.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> XC Relay....already run, sadly as expected, no live stream was provided. Not good enough in 2022.


agreed, but this is a UCI fault. They arrange the event and set up the broadcast rights


----------



## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Carter Woods had second fastest lap time in relay to Luca Braidot


----------



## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

roth88 said:


> Yeah, it sounds like it, but it seems like UCI should make that call soon since it will also affect the overall standings. Racers will want to know the revised points before Val di Sole.


Stuff like this is usually done months later. Doubt anything coming out before the end of the season.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

XC Team Relay Results

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/results-xc-team-relay-les-gets-xc-world-champs-2022.html


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Picks:
Men Nino.
Women: Batten


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> agreed, but this is a UCI fault. They arrange the event and set up the broadcast rights


Well they're not very consistent then, as Road & CX Worlds manage live coverage for non Elite races, and have done for a while. Is MTB the poor relation? One hopes this is sorted next year, at the Super Worlds.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

An interview with Evie Richards about this year and coming back from injury:









'Young female athletes need to know what's normal'


Britain's mountain bike cross-country world champion Evie Richards on the mental and physical issues she overcame to reach the summit of her sport.




www.bbc.co.uk





It looks like the 2022 MTB World Championships might be on BBC iPlayer in the UK. It’s just a page with no available episodes or times at the moment though.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Picks
Men - Hatherly
Women - Ferrand Prevot


----------



## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

XCO course preview...





Picks:
Men - Pidcock
Women - PFP


----------



## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Pidcock
Lecomte


----------



## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Exmuhle said:


> XC Relay....already run, sadly as expected, no live stream was provided. Not good enough in 2022.


Unfortunate, I used to love watching it and the riders really seemed to get into the Team Spirit of the event. I think 2018 was the last one on YouTube. 
I don't even know if you can pay to see it now...???


----------



## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

ccm said:


> Carter Woods had second fastest lap time in relay to Luca Braidot


Jordan Sarrou, 10:58!
The only one under the 11 minute mark.

The French were in 1st place going into their 5th Rider. Tatiana Tournut broke her saddle and had an 18:09 Lap.
Looks like Jordan went all out trying to get them back in the race. He did manage to get them up to 5th from 7th.


----------



## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Augustus-G said:


> Jordan Sarrou, 10:58!
> The only one under the 11 minute mark.


good catch thanks


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I expect it to be Lecomte and Pidcock.

I'd much prefer Nino and Jolanda as champions. 

Jolanda could factor in the wet. Though I don't know if she's got the same level of conditioning as the two french girls.

I _really_ want it to be a Kiwi on the men's side, but I don't think it's a course suiting our guys as much. Sam has decent form but is a bit bigger than is expect the winner to be on what seems a very climby course. Cooper has the size and skill but I don't think quite has the form he was aiming for. Hope I'm wrong there and they are both factors.


----------



## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mail_liam said:


> I expect it to be Lecomte and Pidcock.
> 
> I'd much prefer Nino and Jolanda as champions.
> 
> ...


I would love to see Anton place well, but I'm not seeing signs that his form is at a top level. Surprises happen, however.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Pidcock and Lecomte for the XCO wins.


----------



## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> Pidcock and Lecomte for the XCO wins.


Can’t really argue with that, but I’d prefer Jolanda. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> I agree - I'm actually someone who likes variety in courses; whether climbing heavy, or technically challenging courses - or something in the middle. And in an ideal world, the Euros wouldn't be 1 week before the Worlds.


I thought I agreed with this until I finally watched the women's Euro race tonight on YouTube. Personally thought that course was pretty lame for a championship mountain bike race. It just didn't feel like a mountain bike race to me. The one upside was that, despite the weather, it was nice that they could actually ride.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mtballday said:


> I thought I agreed with this until I finally watched the women's Euro race tonight on YouTube. Personally thought that course was pretty lame for a championship mountain bike race. It just didn't feel like a mountain bike race to me. The one upside was that, despite the weather, it was nice that they could actually ride.


I think you've got your wires crossed; I wasn't saying I thought it was a good course, far from it; however I do think courses should offer a differing challenge. Both Munich this year, and Novi Sad last year were not your usual XCO courses.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Exmuhle said:


> Well they're not very consistent then, as Road & CX Worlds manage live coverage for non Elite races, and have done for a while. Is MTB the poor relation? One hopes this is sorted next year, at the Super Worlds.


Well, I've seen the U23 races will be live on GCN/Eurosport on Sunday morning, so that's some good news.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

It seems the World Championship races may stream in the UK on Red Bull TV too. This link says for Albanian, French, Slovakian, Swedish and UK streaming:









UCI Mountain Bike World Championships (English and French commentary)


The UCI Mountain Bike World Championships makes a triumphant return to the valley of Les Gets, France. Watch the downhill and cross-country racing live from August 27-28, 2022.




www.redbull.com





Searching in the Red Bull app says geo restricted from the UK but then that link above doesn’t.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

We’re cutting back in expenses so no VPN. Am I understanding Redbull will geo restrict the USA from viewing the event? If so I will miss the event and that sucks. Thanks 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Been covered here in bits and pieces, but this spells out where you can watch and other hints.

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/how-to-watch-the-les-gets-world-championships.html


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I'm also picking Lecomte and Pidcock for the win. However, I'd prefer Terpstra/Neff/Bohe/Mitterwallner/Rissveds and then Nino/Dascalu. I prefer to root for people who have stuck out the whole season (injuries/sickness aside) before making a go on the big day. Makes the win more impressive to me.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

trmn8er said:


> We’re cutting back in expenses so no VPN. Am I understanding Redbull will geo restrict the USA from viewing the event? If so I will miss the event and that sucks. Thanks
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Free trial and cancel before you are billed....


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Pidcock and PFP


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Rissveds will not compete due to a prolonged cold.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

According to the Red Bull site, they're only covering the DHI & XCO races, on the 27th & 28th. No mention of XCC. However, at the end of the Vuelta coverage, they went over to Lauren Smith (with a GCN/Eurosport microphone) & Evie, and mentioned the XCC tomorrow.









UCI Mountain Bike World Championships


The UCI Mountain Bike World Championships makes a triumphant return to the valley of Les Gets, France. Watch the downhill and cross-country racing live from August 27-28, 2022.




www.redbull.com


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

OK, why on earth does Redbull make it so impossible to see what's being aired or not? I was looking forward to watching the XCC tomorrow, VPN or otherwise.

Huge bummer about Rissveds, but if she's sick, better not to push it and cause long-term damage.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Stephane Tempier retires from professional racing.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

roth88 said:


> OK, why on earth does Redbull make it so impossible to see what's being aired or not? I was looking forward to watching the XCC tomorrow, VPN or otherwise.
> 
> Huge bummer about Rissveds, but if she's sick, better not to push it and cause long-term damage.


This. I love Redbull's actual coverage once I can find it, but their site and user interface for the player suck.


----------



## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I'm in USA and my Flosports app says it will have the MTB races. But it often says it will feature a race only to be geoblocked once it goes live.

EDIT: I see the pinkbike article says Flosports will stream it in USA. But I'll believe it when it actually works.


----------



## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

cassieno said:


> Free trial and cancel before you are billed....


Yeah I looked but do not see a free trial. Thanks for the suggestion anyway. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

WR304 said:


> It seems the World Championship races may stream in the UK on Red Bull TV too. This link says for Albanian, French, Slovakian, Swedish and UK streaming:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Red bull app for me, when logging in as the UK, that only the XCO races are being shown, not the short track. So my GCN+ membership is paying off finally, as they do show XCC and U23.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

There are free VPNs out there, would I trust them? maybe. I'm no vpn/IT expert at all. The GCN+ yearly fee is reasonable, and if all the world cups are included next year, I'll renew again for sure. I only use it to watch the CX races otherwise.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

So no Bec for the XCC and the start list for XCO is not up yet. Is she skipping all together or just concentrating on XCO?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> So no Bec for the XCC and the start list for XCO is not up yet. Is she skipping all together or just concentrating on XCO?


just racing XCO


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Red Bull app for me, when logging in as the UK, that only the XCO races are being shown, not the short track. So my GCN+ membership is paying off finally, as they do show XCC and U23.


Yes, that's what I mentioned earlier - and it doesn't make sense. Why would they not bother with the XCC? Has a deal been done to give GCN/Eurosport a trial run? Lauren was there with Evie, with a short preview.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cycloholic said:


> Rissveds will not compete due to a prolonged cold.


 Well that's a real bummer. The races will be a bit "less" than they would have been with her.
Jenny has brought competitiveness to every race she's started this year and it's been a lot of fun watching it.
Hope she's feeling better by Val di Sole.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

$8.99 for 2 races and a chance to see how they handle this? You bet!!!

ETA: lol at my little UK flag!!!


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## FJSnoozer (Mar 3, 2015)

carlostruco said:


> Stephane Tempier retires from professional racing.


Modern frames won’t fit a large enough chainring for him to continue racing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

FJSnoozer said:


> Modern frames won’t fit a large enough chainring for him to continue racing.


Well played sir.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

He used to race with the biggest chainring possible with a road cassette out back...RPM? About 40...


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

His poor knees must be a right mess....


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## _edu_ (Nov 28, 2021)

This is what's available at red bull tv:


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think that's going to catch people out who are expecting the XCC tonight......


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I'll be staying off the thread to avoid spoilers, but if anyone has found out where to watch the XCC from the U.S. without paying $150/year for FloBikes, let me know...


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

you could try the SRF Sport App, its Swiss, but you may need a VPN


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

roth88 said:


> I'll be staying off the thread to avoid spoilers, but if anyone has found out where to watch the XCC from the U.S. without paying $150/year for FloBikes, let me know...


Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but a VPN and GCN+ for $8.99 for a month or $49.99 for a year. That's the only thing I could find to avoid that abortion they call FloBikes.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Pauline looks like she is cruising out there.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I confirm that Flosports is broadcasting right now for USA. Paid service.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

So a XCC World title to add to her XCO, XC Marathon and Road, CX World titles........


----------



## Mamil1 (May 20, 2019)

Could anyone see what Blevins was doing? It looked like he rode straight into a rock. Was there any way of going through that section 2 abreast?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Mamil1 said:


> Could anyone see what Blevins was doing? It looked like he rode straight into a rock. Was there any way of going through that section 2 abreast?


It looked like all race people were using that line closer to barriers in addition to the main line through the middle. I'm guessing Blevins was taking big risk at that moment to try and make a move since it was last lap last corner coming up and hit that line with more speed than could be handled. Pretty bummed, things were looking good for him.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Looks like most of the big guns on the men's side saved their juice for XCO. Some of the women, as well.

If forgot about how strong Gwen has been riding.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

has Blevins got any teeth left?


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

On the results of recent world XC. What does "-xLAP" mean ?

example:

2745APAZA Agustina Maria







-1LAP2830OTTO Hannah







-2LAP298LOIV Janika







-2LAP


----------



## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

gat3keeper said:


> On the results of recent world XC. What does "-xLAP" mean ?


With the 80% rule, riders who are too far behind, are taken out of the race 1 lap or 2 laps before the end such that they don't obstruct the first racers when they would lap them.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

cmg said:


> has Blevins got any teeth left?


I actually looks like he smashed is right temple on that rock. I'd be concussed after that collision.

It also looked like his steerer may have slipped in the stem prior to going down.


----------



## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

man i hope he's alright and can race sunday. looked bad.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Yee-freaking-ha!

Sam Gaze you beauty


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> So a XCC World title to add to her XCO, XC Marathon and Road, CX World titles........


Overrate. All she does is win world championships. The Jerry Rice of mountain biking


----------



## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Damn Gaze looked super strong

Avancini looked also very good, until he suddenly didn't

The GCN commentator is really bad, and he's only commentating alone, which makes it even worse.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Raikzz said:


> Damn Gaze looked super strong
> 
> Avancini looked also very good, until he suddenly didn't
> 
> The GCN commentator is really bad, and he's only commentating alone, which makes it even worse.


It was Ric, who does the EWS shows (and formerly on RBTV); He did it from a studio in London........I agree he needed an expert with him. I wonder whether it was short notice? As I think we all thought the XCC would be on RBTV.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Raikzz said:


> Damn Gaze looked super strong
> 
> Avancini looked also very good, until he suddenly didn't
> 
> The GCN commentator is really bad, and he's only commentating alone, which makes it even worse.


Agree! I find the Irish accent difficult at times anyway, but he had no "colour". Definitely need two to minimise the dead air, and a great argument for having a colour commentator and race caller (I can't think what the terms are)


----------



## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

For those who didn’t pay for the full stream, clips are starting to show up on YouTube


----------



## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Blevins seems to be okay, at least within a couple of minutes of his crash (31:27 on GCN+ video) as he’s enthusiastically congratulating Sam Gaze on his win. In the replay at 32:40 on that video it appears he may be going a bit too hot though the last rock garden, but the main thing is he loses his front wheel (slides out) and that was it.

I‘ve been a GCN+ subscriber for a couple of years — big cyclocross fan and they’re great at covering the Euro racing scene — and watch a lot of race coverage across all disciplines . I find it to be an exceptional value. I’ll take GCN+ announcers over the Red Bull guys any day, an unpopular opinion for sure. I’ve never heard anything that wasn’t obvious from the Red Bull guys — they add nothing to the race, relying on hyperbole and stating and restating the obvious. Give me dead air any time over that. I usually watch the Red Bull coverage without the sound.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Ptor said:


> Blevins seems to be okay, at least within a couple of minutes of his crash (31:27 on GCN+ video) as he’s enthusiastically congratulating Sam Gaze on his win. In the replay at 32:40 on that video it appears he may be going a bit too hot though the last rock garden, but the main thing is he loses his front wheel (slides out) and that was it.
> 
> I‘ve been a GCN+ subscriber for a couple of years — big cyclocross fan and they’re great at covering the Euro racing scene — and watch a lot of race coverage across all disciplines . I find it to be an exceptional value. I’ll take GCN+ announcers over the Red Bull guys any day, an unpopular opinion for sure. I’ve never heard anything that wasn’t obvious from the Red Bull guys — they add nothing to the race, relying on hyperbole and stating and restating the obvious. Give me dead air any time over that. I usually watch the Red Bull coverage without the sound.


I have faith in GCN providing good commentary. They've had Neil Donaghue before and even their road guys are good. The Irish fella had good familiarity of the riders, but was a bit boring. He'd be fine with someone beside him with a bit of character. Call it hyperbole if you like, but a bit of charisma and energy is crucial to an entertaining package for the masses. Those of us watching every round etc etc don't really listen to the commentary to work out what's what, but the general population will be I think.


----------



## Rocky Mountain Racer (Jun 6, 2014)

I don't know, I like the Redbull commentary. I like knowing the pace is really high, someone is pushing a big gear, the track is muddy or buuumppy.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I miss Claudio Caluori's course previews or "Blah Blah Runs". Rrra Rrra Rrroots.


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

They also had the wrong persons name on the screen, Kate Courtney was really Gibson, litscher showed as Colombo. Eek.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I can’t believe both Avancini and Blevins recovered to finish as well as they did. Both crashes were pretty rough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good one Sam!
His first world cup win was in the old XCE format, winning against the reigning world champ Paul van der Ploeg.
He's got the power


----------



## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Le Duke said:


> I can’t believe both Avancini and Blevins recovered to finish as well as they did. Both crashes were pretty rough.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Alessandra was lucky she landed in the grass. That would have been one really ugly face plant in the rock garden.
One heck of ride for her to come back and take the Silver.


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Managed to find a stream of the GCN coverage. Great race for Pauline - she looked very dominant, although I would've loved to see what could've happened without a crash from Keller. I had my money on Keller for the win in this discipline and it was amazing she came back for second. Blevins had a very strong response when Gaze made his move and I think it would've been a sprint finish for sure. I hope he's okay.

I thought the GCN coverage was no good, though. No explanation about big name riders missing from the race, flat commentary, the wrong names displayed on screen...it gave me a glimpse of what it's like without the Red Bull standard of coverage.

ETA: I also thought it was crazy that at one point in the race, Courtney was in 11th with three other Americans in front of her. American women's racing is taking off.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

The GCN+ coverage was but a shadow of what I've come to expect from RB. The commentary was uninformed. "PFP attacking off the front from the start". You mean PFP sitting in, being the opportunist like she always does and waiting for something to spring her? A little preferential there. So good to see that Kate Courtney finished third after all her battles. _sic_ Not excited, but resigned to my fate.

Blevins crash was hard to watch. Super glad he's ok. Or is he???

So happy to be able to revert to RB for the next two nights..... RIP Rob and Bart


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> The GCN+ coverage was but a shadow of what I've come to expect from RB. The commentary was uninformed. "PFP attacking off the front from the start". You mean PFP sitting in, being the opportunist like she always does and waiting for something to spring her? A little preferential there. So good to see that Kate Courtney finished third after all her battles. _sic_ Not excited, but resigned to my fate.
> 
> Blevins crash was hard to watch. Super glad he's ok. Or is he???
> 
> So happy to be able to revert to RB for the next two nights..... RIP Rob and Bart


3rd was Gwendalyn Gibson.


----------



## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

jrob300 said:


> The GCN+ coverage was but a shadow of what I've come to expect from RB. The commentary was uninformed. "PFP attacking off the front from the start". You mean PFP sitting in, being the opportunist like she always does and waiting for something to spring her? A little preferential there. So good to see that Kate Courtney finished third after all her battles. _sic_ Not excited, but resigned to my fate.
> 
> Blevins crash was hard to watch. Super glad he's ok. Or is he???
> 
> So happy to be able to revert to RB for the next two nights..... RIP Rob and Bart


Speaking of preferential, referring to PFP as an "opportunist" but not Blevins (or Gaze) who did the exact same thing - only didn't take the risk of attacking nearly as far out as PFP, but sat in until 1/2 lap to go.

In reality, all good racing is opportunistic, unless one is so much better than the rest that simply riding away at the start is a viable tactic. PFP knows how to win these things.


----------



## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

jrob300 said:


> Not exactly the answer you're looking for, but a VPN and GCN+ for $8.99 for a month or $49.99 for a year. That's the only thing I could find to avoid that abortion they call FloBikes.


Too late now for the XCC (stayed out of here until I could watch).... but yeah, this is by far one of the best combo's for U.S. viewing. Especially if you also follow the road and cross seasons as well. You can basically watch every race in every discipline. Hoping next year brings live enduro streaming as well.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> So good to see that Kate Courtney finished third after all her battles.


🤔 I must have watched a different race.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

There are some photos of the XCC race here:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/photo-epic-xcc-world-champs-les-gets-2022.html



Full results:



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/xcc-short-track-results-from-the-les-gets-world-champs-2022.html



Unlike the World Cups, where the XCC determines start position for the main race, there are quite a few missing big names who skipped the XCC altogether - Tom Pidcock and Nino Schurter being two of those.

In the results I noticed that Simon Andreassen rode and finished the XCC race. He’s been injured for a lot of the year, and missed the World Cups, so this must be one of his first races back?


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Where can we watch a replay of xcc?!


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

uintah said:


> 🤔 I must have watched a different race.


Did you guys NOT catch at the end when they were interviewing Gwendolyn that the announcer called her Kate Courtney and so did the screen graphics?

At least get some people that know and understand the sport covering something this big.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> Did you guys NOT catch at the end when they were interviewing Gwendolyn that the announcer called her Kate Courtney and so did the screen graphics


I still knew that it wasn't Kate Courtney.


----------



## MattMay (Dec 24, 2013)

Commentary on GCN+ for downhill today was pretty darn good I thought, if anyone caught it. Great racing.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

uintah said:


> I still knew that it wasn't Kate Courtney.


So did I...... _sarcasm_


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

So, the final day, and the U23 & Elite XCO races.

Women's U23; Burquier has been the stand out rider in the World Cups, with competition from Pieterse, Pedersen & Blochinger. However, Stigger has decided to step back from the Elites to race this instead.
Men's U23; Hard to see past defending champion, Martin Vidaurre-Kossman, however, I expect Carter Woods & Riley Amos to challenge him.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Good U23 race. UCI on youtube.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

NordieBoy said:


> Good U23 race. UCI on youtube.


Is it also for elite on uTube?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Just U23...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Tiz-Cycling Live Stream


Tiz-Cycling Live Stream - Your #1 Source for Quality Cycling Videos




tiz-cycling-live.io


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

PFP on a HT...everyone else on FS bikes...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

PFP gone. Whooooosh up the road. Lap 3 and it’s over a minute

She’s riding beautifully. Showing great skill. Doing tail whips through the switch backs 😍


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

The race is happening for 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Neff back in the mix for the medals. Lecomte having a bad day

1:43 to PFP…making hard tails great again


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> Tiz-Cycling Live Stream
> 
> 
> Tiz-Cycling Live Stream - Your #1 Source for Quality Cycling Videos
> ...


BLOCKED...with 1/2 lap to go!


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

smartyiak said:


> BLOCKED...with 1/2 lap to go!


...and just like that...back up


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Pretty damn impressive. 
and who said HTs were dead


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

Pauline world champion again that lady can really ride a bicycle.
I love my FS but there is something very pure about a hardtail frame. 
Thank you VPN switched to England stream just in time for the last lap


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Hardtail for the win! Love it!


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

Super pumped for Haley! I think LMN was onto something calling for her win (3rd is damn impressive).
Hopefully we see Gibson and Blunk doing a full WC schedule next year.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

An on form Pauline is the fastest rider I have ever seen. Is that her 8th senior world title? Going to be rivalling Vos foot GOAT title.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

PFP was really strange to watch...it looked like she was out for a Sunday ride to the market. She didn't "look fast." So easy (looking).

Jolanda going down hill and jumping is a thing of beauty....so smoooooth.

Keller just looks terrible on bicycle...obvs she's doing something right...but aesthetically not a thing of beauty. 😬


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Tiz-Cycling Live Stream


Tiz-Cycling Live Stream - Your #1 Source for Quality Cycling Videos




tiz-cycling-live.io


----------



## brentos (May 19, 2006)

I thought there was a rule that racers must ride the same bike in XCC & XCO. Am I incorrect, or does the rule apply only to series races and not world champs?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Not bad day for the Squamish kids. Seeing


brentos said:


> I thought there was a rule that racers must ride the same bike in XCC & XCO. Am I incorrect, or does the rule apply only to series races and not world champs?


Not at world champs. They are considered completely seperate races.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Nino looks like his legs are going and his trust and his tires gone.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Ok, maybe he still has legs.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> Ok, maybe he still has legs.


Nino…..unbelievable….


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

It was nice to see Pidcock look like me...if only for appx 8seconds


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I just tuned in; have people been taking that tree gap that Pidcock got stuck in?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

DH skills still matter...


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## Toldto (Aug 16, 2013)

carlostruco said:


> Tiz-Cycling Live Stream
> 
> 
> Tiz-Cycling Live Stream - Your #1 Source for Quality Cycling Videos
> ...


Thank you.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

10 times!! “Who does that?”


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

That last rock garden is just terrible. 

Just completely kills any kind of flow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

What happened to Blevins? Wasn't able to watch it.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> 10 times!! “Who does that?”


I have my theory


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

uintah said:


> What happened to Blevins? Wasn't able to watch it.


DNF


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

This is the 31st official world championship in mountain biking. Nino has one 1 out of 3 those races. Just mind blowing.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Brad said:


> I have my theory


So lame. Quit slandering athletes just because you don't like them. Have a little class.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well he said it himself “it’s unbelievable “


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Pidcock's world ranking doomed him. Chasing the top guys for a few laps leaves you with nothing at the end almost every time. I though Valero had a change when he showed up at the front in lap 1 or 2. Also the same for Sarrou. Nino is just the best. Plain and simple. Very good ride for Koretzky.

PFP...I called it. LMN nailed it with Batten. I thought Terpstra and Becca would play bigger roles. Very good race for Neff and very happy to see Evie back out there doing great!!!


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

LMN said:


> This is the 31st official world championship in mountain biking. Nino has one 1 out of 3 those races. Just mind blowing.


Congrats on your predictions for Batten and Schurter. And you are not even on the ground anymore to see with your own eyes. Who was tipping you off? ;-)


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

ccm said:


> Congrats on your predictions for Batten and Schurter. And you are not even on the ground anymore to see with your own eyes. Who was tipping you off? ;-)


Maybe insider trading like knowledge doping of sorts!!!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Pidcock's world ranking doomed him. Chasing the top guys for a few laps leaves you with nothing at the end almost every time.


'Simple' solution for that; ride more World Cups, and get his ranking up. With Worlds in the UK next year (Glentress) one hopes he'll be allowed to do that. A similar thing happened to MvdP in 2018 in Lenzerheide; by the time he got into 3rd, the front two had gone.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Exmuhle said:


> 'Simple' solution for that; ride more World Cups, and get his ranking up. With Worlds in the UK next year (Glentress) one hopes he'll be allowed to do that. A similar thing happened to MvdP in 2018 in Lenzerheide; by the time he got into 3rd, the front two had gone.


No time for that. He will be too busy winning the TdF.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Now for the fun part...who will win in Val Di Sole?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I think Pidcock didn’t have the legs today.


carlostruco said:


> Now for the fun part...who will win in Val Di Sole?


women: Pauline clearly is on form.
Men: Pidcock, if he races.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> I think Pidcock didn’t have the legs today.
> 
> women: Pauline clearly is on form.
> Men: Pidcock, if he races.


You might be right; when he got to the front, he did the same as at Nove Mesto, and rode a steady tempo - and not riding away. That's when I thought he might not be in decent form. However, it might be a combination of everything. We'll only know when him/his team tell us.

I hope he does ride next week, as he'll have a better start position.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> You might be right; when he got to the front, he did the same as at Nove Mesto, and rode a steady tempo - and not riding away. That's when I thought he might not be in decent form. However, it might be a combination of everything. We'll only know when him/his team tell us.
> 
> I hope he does ride next week, as he'll have a better start position.


I don't think he will have a better start position unless he races the XCC and finishes top 16 (likely)


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## EH1”40 (Jul 28, 2021)

Is it just me, or does Flo Bike footage of the race look like 480P? My iPhone takes better video then what they use. Plus the $150/yr. price tag is ridiculous. Hopefully next year Discovery will be as good or better than Red Bull TV.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> You might be right; when he got to the front, he did the same as at Nove Mesto, and rode a steady tempo - and not riding away. That's when I thought he might not be in decent form. However, it might be a combination of everything. We'll only know when him/his team tell us.
> 
> I hope he does ride next week, as he'll have a better start position.


The lap analysis was really telling. His best laps were early on, and those lap times were equal to the what Nino did on the last two laps. It looked like front of the race really slowed up for a bit which allowed Pidcock (who was going fast) to catch back up. 

Pidcock was good today I think even with a front row start he didn't have winning legs.


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

LMN said:


> The lap analysis was really telling. His best laps were early on, and those lap times were equal to the what Nino did on the last two laps. It looked like front of the race really slowed up for a bit which allowed Pidcock (who was going fast) to catch back up.
> 
> Pidcock was good today I think even with a front row start he didn't have winning legs.


1. I’ve don’t really like Pauline but I always want to see her race well. She’s maybe the most talented bike racer ever man or woman. Now that she has her eating disorder figured out and is willing to do true mtb training (weights, jumps,etc…) no one can stop her on peak form.I would love to see her line up at the road world championships. Might as well?

2. Nino won because he is the greatest mtb racer ever. I think a fully peaked pidcock might have beat him but that would mean no tour or spring classics. Personally, I’d rather win the mont
Ventoux tdf stage than mtb world champs. I bet his wallet prefers road wins too!


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

xcskier66 said:


> 1. I’ve don’t really like Pauline but I always want to see her race well. She’s maybe the most talented bike racer ever man or woman. Now that she has her eating disorder figured out and is willing to do true mtb training (weights, jumps,etc…) no one can stop her on peak form. I would love to see her line up at the road world championships. Might as well?


I think she said in an instagram post last year that she's left the road behind her (though she did French Road Nationals last year as training) and has no wish to move to a road based team. But who knows. I'd love to see her back on the CX bike, but I think she is now solely a MTB rider.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Never count out Nino, what a goat!


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Pidcock, like MvDP will have better chances at World Cups compared to World Champs due to the rule for multi discipline rider and points an yada yada yada. Now, if one or both race a full schedule, that would be a different story. Being on a road based team can and will pull you to were the bigger bucks are, and that is a loss for the fans on MTB races. Still, the fact of the matter is, Nino is the best and the greatest. I don't like the guy much, but we all have to admire we have seen one of the most dominant athletes ever in any sport for the past 10+ years. 

PFP...what can anyone say...she might be who she is, but that attitude and determination has elevated her to another level as a cyclist. We can speculate and almost all agree that she might move on from the BMC Team, and when she does, I wish she goes to a team that lets her do what she does best. 

Also, there are a ton of riders whose contracts expire at the end of the season, so we might see a ton of moves.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

N1NO! What a heck of a ride!

Absolutely gutted for Sam Gaze. Had the legs too. Bugger!


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## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

mail_liam said:


> N1NO! What a heck of a ride!
> 
> Absolutely gutted for Sam Gaze. Had the legs too. Bugger!


What happened to Sam? I only managed to find a feed for the last lap.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

GSPChilliwack said:


> What happened to Sam? I only managed to find a feed for the last lap.


Wiped out in the bottom between two of the large humps on the descent. Looked like he was riding up on the rider in front and bobbled it trying to check his speed.

Was holding his arm/shoulder.

Gutting. He was riding strong in 3rd/4th.


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

I'm not too familiar with PFP yet am a fan on the same level as Neff and Rissveds. What is this talk of her attitude or personality? Is it a stereotypical French thing or did she have one or two Sam Gaze public scrutiny moments?


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## TwincamRob (Sep 20, 2014)

Not sure how long these will last. No commentary on these…

mens





womens


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

westin said:


> I'm not too familiar with PFP yet am a fan on the same level as Neff and Rissveds. What is this talk of her attitude or personality? Is it a stereotypical French thing or did she have one or two Sam Gaze public scrutiny moments?


She like anyone who, when things are not going well, gets a little grumpy.
at least her pout is really cute <am I allowed to say that in woke 2022?>


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## westin (Nov 9, 2005)

PFP's quote from Velonews regarding HT decision: “It was a super hard race, and I made the choice to start with a hardtail bike because I knew I could go fast on the climb,” she said. “It was a bit risky but I wanted to go straight from the start to go full gas and to try to make a gap. After that I adjusted to try to be soft and clean on the downhill so I made it and completed it.”


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

NINO! Not a huge fan of this course but that race was sooo exciting.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

westin said:


> I'm not too familiar with PFP yet am a fan on the same level as Neff and Rissveds. What is this talk of her attitude or personality? Is it a stereotypical French thing or did she have one or two Sam Gaze public scrutiny moments?


She always been sort of looked as a bit of a dabbler in mountain biking. Even though she hasn't raced road seriously since 2014 or 2015 she still looked at as a bit of a roadie. Combine that with a career long rivalary with Jolanda and she gets painted as a bit of villian. I think also a bit of an anti-french attitude plays a factor.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

EH1”40 said:


> Is it just me, or does Flo Bike footage of the race look like 480P? My iPhone takes better video then what they use. Plus the $150/yr. price tag is ridiculous. Hopefully next year Discovery will be as good or better than Red Bull TV.


It’s the same for track as well. A dude live streaming from his phone (including commentary) is better. At least on the track side, they just don’t have the capability to produce quality content.


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## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

westin said:


> PFP's quote from Velonews regarding HT decision: “It was a super hard race, and I made the choice to start with a hardtail bike because I knew I could go fast on the climb,” she said. “It was a bit risky but I wanted to go straight from the start to go full gas and to try to make a gap. After that I adjusted to try to be soft and clean on the downhill so I made it and completed it.”


And curiously, PFP won the XCC on a full suspension and the XCO on a hardtail!


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Wow, incredible racing today. Pauline was absolutely dominant start to finish. I thought she would do well, but that Loana was going to be the clear winner. Should not have counted her out! Neff was absolutely incredible on those jumps too.

The men's racing was a nailbiter start to finish. I'm stoked that Nino took his 10th title, although I also would've been happy if Valero took his first - that was the race of his life right there. Pidcock obviously didn't have his best race, but I thought it was a bit unsportsmanlike to be so visibly frustrated when crushing the finish line. I'm of the mind that it's important to show respect to the fans with at least a wave or a nod and to save the frustration for later. Regardless, I was glad to see the men's and women's titles go to two of the all-time greats.


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Nino has been at a high level for so long that his historical data would be interesting for analysis. I wonder if his power numbers would support the theory that he is as fast as he's ever been in any of his past seasons. Or if he's 95% as fast but still capable of pulling narrow victories out on good days. Of course consistency is also a factor. Only a few people could know this though (those closest to his training and Nino himself). It would make a good interview question.


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## UPSed (Dec 26, 2010)

TwincamRob said:


> Not sure how long these will last. No commentary on these…
> 
> mens
> 
> ...


They're still up. I was able to watch both races.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

I know there’s a variety of opinions of Nino on here in terms of sportsmanship and attitude, but man does he have a high racing IQ. Knows how and when to play the cards. Kudos to him.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

le_pedal said:


> Nino has been at a high level for so long that his historical data would be interesting for analysis. I wonder if his power numbers would support the theory that he is as fast as he's ever been in any of his past seasons. Or if he's 95% as fast but still capable of pulling narrow victories out on good days. Of course consistency is also a factor. Only a few people could know this though (those closest to his training and Nino himself). It would make a good interview question.


I would be interested if he targeted certain races. I 100% believe that he tried to peak for the Petropolis race (to tie the record) and Lenzerheide (to break it). The first race would be missing some and some others maybe not peaking b/c there's a whole season ahead. The Swiss race b/c they had a month off...and home race.

In other words, I would bet he's just as fast...but needs more recovery. It worked out in Brazil... not so much in Swissland..but: you know 😬 😬 😬.

What's that song: I'm not as good as I once was...but I'm as good, once, as I ever was.😁


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

le_pedal said:


> Nino has been at a high level for so long that his historical data would be interesting for analysis. I wonder if his power numbers would support the theory that he is as fast as he's ever been in any of his past seasons. Or if he's 95% as fast but still capable of pulling narrow victories out on good days. Of course consistency is also a factor. Only a few people could know this though (those closest to his training and Nino himself). It would make a good interview question.


I feel Nino was his peak physically relative to the field in 2015, 2016. Those years he would sit in the lead group until 1hr mark, attack and win by 30s to 1 minute. The only guy who could really challenge him was Absalon, and Absalon needed something to go wrong to do so (like a flat tire). In his perfect season, he won every race but they were close wins (like we see nowadays).


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Brad said:


> Well he said it himself “it’s unbelievable “


Don't they all have to go through doping? Is it that easy to fool? My familiarity with it is only through Icarus and that was a whole state funded effort to bypass. 



GSPChilliwack said:


> What happened to Sam? I only managed to find a feed for the last lap.


Gaze crashed on one of the jumps. He went off all sideways and landed mostly on his side. 

Not sure what happened to Blevins. Speculation he had a concussion and wasn't able to make good decisions.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

westin said:


> I'm not too familiar with PFP yet am a fan on the same level as Neff and Rissveds. What is this talk of her attitude or personality? Is it a stereotypical French thing or did she have one or two Sam Gaze public scrutiny moments?


I know of one or two public moments in the Sam Gaze vein (like that hand wave at Evie Richards when Richards outsprinted her in the Nove Mesto short track in 2020), but it's more that people feel uncomfortable with the non-bubbly type of female competitiveness. Look at Neff and PFP together - both competitive and skilled as hell, but because Jolanda is bubbly in interviews, no one ever criticizes her personality, even if her sportsmanship has lacked in certain moments. Don't get me wrong - Jolanda is an incredible athlete and a real spokesperson for the sport, but I didn't see her get an ounce of criticism for calling PFP's slow roll onto the ramp in Tokyo a "stupid move" causing Neff to almost crash, even though Neff was the one at fault. For two women with epic skill, similar experience, and similar accolades, the criticism comes down harder on the one viewed as less "likable." I think people were shocked when PFP told that story about getting a silver medal in a race as a child and throwing it away. It's just not how young girls in France were expected to behave, but I don't think PFP would be where she is today without learning to become a cutthroat competitor.


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## beastmaster (Sep 19, 2012)

roth88 said:


> I know of one or two public moments in the Sam Gaze vein (like that hand wave at Evie Richards when Richards outsprinted her in the Nove Mesto short track in 2020), but it's more that people feel uncomfortable with the non-bubbly type of female competitiveness. Look at Neff and PFP together - both competitive and skilled as hell, but because Jolanda is bubbly in interviews, no one ever criticizes her personality, even if her sportsmanship has lacked in certain moments. Don't get me wrong - Jolanda is an incredible athlete and a real spokesperson for the sport, but I didn't see her get an ounce of criticism for calling PFP's slow roll onto the ramp in Tokyo a "stupid move" causing Neff to almost crash, even though Neff was the one at fault. For two women with epic skill, similar experience, and similar accolades, the criticism comes down harder on the one viewed as less "likable." I think people were shocked when PFP told that story about getting a silver medal in a race as a child and throwing it away. It's just not how young girls in France were expected to behave, but I don't think PFP would be where she is today without learning to become a cutthroat competitor.


PFP and Neff used to be quite friendly with one another before PFP slide across a wet off camber section of track in a cyclocross race taking them both out and injuring Neff. Things seemed to deteriorate after that crash and there were other moments that compounded the situation. It really is too bad. The press and the overall public opinion of these two athletes changed after that bigger crash as well. Neff is definitely an easier going person in comparison to PFP.

Big congrats to Schurter on his World Championship win. Amazing to have 10 of these titles! I bet he really wants this next UCI WC XCO race in Italy to take the record over Absalon's extraordinary career.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> So lame. Quit slandering athletes just because you don't like them. Have a little class.


I saw no slander. Just some speculation. You have your outlook on racing. Others have theirs. Sometimes an amazing performance is just that. And sometimes it is much more. Both race performances were incredible. Makes one think back to other performances that were similar yet were given sad context later. Super happy for you that you have not had to live through such disappointment and disillusionment. But you should not disdain those who have.

Just finished both races on GCN+..... I thought that FloBikes was working overtime for the basement of all racing coverage, but GCN+ seems to be working hard to outrace them to the bottom. After years of watching top level coverage of UCI XCO for free, It seems reasonable to expect that the new kid on the block who now charges a goodly amount of money for their contribution..... would at least maintain the bar. They have had time to prepare... but this coverage was nothing short of horrible. The first 40% of the women's race and the first 15% of the men's had garbled audio.... which was perhaps superior to what was provided once audio was restored by Merry and Pippin after smoking a bowl.

If this is what GCN+ plans to provide for their PPV, I will watch WRC Rally racing, or perhaps synchronized swimming, on RB for free instead and look up the UCI results on Cycling News and use my imagination. I've never heard two announcers say so many words and say so little. And perhaps it might have helped if they actually knew that Haley Batten was a world contender and not some also ran.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

jrob300 said:


> I saw no slander. Just some speculation. You have your outlook on racing. Others have theirs. Sometimes an amazing performance is just that. And sometimes it is much more. Both race performances were incredible. Makes one think back to other performances that were similar yet were given sad context later. Super happy for you that you have not had to live through such disappointment and disillusionment. But you should not disdain those who have.


A doper cost my wife WC overall title in 2009, between bonuses and prize money that was $50,000 hit. Maybe other posters have had a similar experience but I doubt it. I have also had the exerience of my wife being called a doper just because she was the dominant rider at the time. Have been through that I have little tolerance for people who challenge someones credibility just because they are good. 

I fully admit that I don't have a clue how someone could get away with doping. And, I am guessing, other than the olympians who occasionaly post here I am way more informed on anti-doping protcols and procedures. I think anybody claiming they know how doping works is 
a) either full of crap
b) a former cheater themselves who wants self validation by claiming "everyone is cheating"

The actual people who are engaged in doping are dead quite about it and certainly aren't sharing their methods with anyone.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

LMN said:


> A doper cost my wife WC overall title in 2009, between bonuses and prize money that was $50,000 hit. Maybe other posters have had a similar experience but I doubt it. I have also had the exerience of my wife being called a doper just because she was the dominant rider at the time. Have been through that I have little tolerance for people who challenge someones credibility just because they are good.
> 
> I fully admit that I don't have a clue how someone could get away with doping. And, I am guessing, other than the olympians who occasionaly post here I am way more informed on anti-doping protcols and procedures. I think anybody claiming they know how doping works is
> a) either full of crap
> ...


So a sports physician, pharmacist, etc wouldn't know about potential doping techniques, that isn't one of your categories? There's clearly plenty of knowledge on the road, every year there are positives. And lest we forget the other Swiss mtb guy two or three weeks ago. That's who is getting caught, do you not accept that others are doing it and not getting caught? I've seen people that I personally competed against dope with EPO at the Masters amateur level and get caught (story was on Velonews 2007/2008 timeframe, infraction occured in 2006. I believe he was a Joe Papp client, remember him?). 

I have no idea what Nino is doing but suggesting that being suspicious makes peple full of crap or dopers themselves is rather naive. Honestly, I assume and accept that most professionals in most sports engage in some form of doping and I move on and enjoy the action.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

BoyinBlue said:


> So a sports physician, pharmacist, etc wouldn't know about potential doping techniques, that isn't one of your categories? There's clearly plenty of knowledge on the road, every year there are positives. And lest we forget the other Swiss mtb guy two or three weeks ago. That's who is getting caught, do you not accept that others are doing it and not getting caught? I've seen people that I personally competed against dope with EPO at the Masters amateur level and get caught (story was on Velonews 2007/2008 timeframe, infraction occured in 2006. I believe he was a Joe Papp client, remember him?).
> 
> I have no idea what Nino is doing but suggesting that being suspicious makes peple full of crap or dopers themselves is rather naive. Honestly, I assume and accept that most professionals in most sports engage in some form of doping and I move on and enjoy the action.


My sister in law is one the top sports physiologist in Canada, worked with multiple gold medal team, my personal doctor has been to multiple Olympics as head medical officer. They has much knowledge about how people are doping as I do.

I am not saying there is no doping. But all these people who claim just because someone is fast they are doping are full of crap.

What I am saying is in modern cycling top riders are tested so frequently and the testing is so good that it would be extremely difficult to not get caught. If anything the problem nowadays is people are being caught for stuff they didn’t intentionally take.

a couple of years ago one of the sport institutions made their own supplement to avoid contamination except their supplement got contaminated. I don’t think many realize how vigilant an athlete needs to be to avoid accidental contamination. And yes according to WADA you actually do have to be very careful where your steak comes from.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

I simply love the sport and take great joy in witnessing the athletic performance displayed by those at the pinnacle of mtbing. I prefer to take those performances at face value and not be pessimistic or conspiratorial about what I've witnessed. That's not to say I am naive or ignorant of the misdeeds of some in our sport, just that, casting guilt on someone because they win is similarly unfair as the proven cheats have been to their competition.

I would hope most of us here have had days that we ride beyond our usual selves. Days that it seems as if we could rip the cranks from the bottom bracket if we were to try. Relatively speaking of course. With this in mind, I see no reason that an athlete with actual talent and dedication can feel that way more often than not.

Congrats to the winners. Better luck next year to the losers. Today was an amazing day of racing.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Nino has been the most consistent rider throughout the years and throughout the season each year, including this year. If he is doping, he has consistently avoided getting caught throughout the season, every year, not just a few peak events. I gather that is much harder than it was 10 years ago, but of course what do I really know? Not much. I just don't see the point of casting aspersions with no evidence beyond "he went very slightly faster than the other guys today ".

Regardless, I don't think there is any real chance he is as good now as he was several years ago when he was dominating the sport. Every race this year has been close with a variety of other riders -- it isn't like he's only had a single other rider that could challenge him. Still, it_ would_ be fun to compare his power numbers and see whether you could figure out an objective comparison that goes beyond comparing him to the other top riders of each year.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

And on a more positive note, IMPO, Sina Frei gets the Sportsmanship award. At about 47:17 into the race there's an accident in one of the uphill switchbacks involving Sina & Githa Michiels of Belgium. Githa looks to be hurt and her chain has come off. Sina taps her on the shoulder, points a Githa's chain then proceeds to lay her bike down and help Githa get going again. Bravo Sina, Bravo.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I saw that. I assumed Sina ran into her and injured Githa, felt bad, so stopped to help her.


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## jf45 (Nov 23, 2021)

LMN said:


> A doper cost my wife WC overall title in 2009,


As not to inadvertently slander the innocent here, can we be more explicit.. In the wc overall standing there are two women before your wife - you're not suggesting any one of them doped, right? 

You're talking about the winner of the 2009 Houffalize and Madrid WC rounds..or..?


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

jf45 said:


> You're talking about the winner of the 2009 Houffalize and Madrid WC rounds..or..?


Fullana was suspended for EPO use in 2010. Draw your own inferences about whether she was doping prior to 2010, but calling her a doper in the general sense is a matter of public record. No speculation required.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam's crash at the bottom of the screen...


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I don't know about all the sideways remarks, to each their own and I've been a jaded cycling fan for a few years too and let down by many of the favourites in the early 2000's.

In my opinion, Nino hasn't done anything that would indicate doping. He was dominant as a Junior, as he matured he was a force dominating the elite ranks (but there were always challengers). The level has increased and Nino has clearly gotten slower. His consistency is amazing, but it's not like he hasn't had the occasional off day. My yardstick for this stuff, as flawed as it is, is the occurrence, or complete lack of, off days.

I had humongous suspicions of Tadej, this year helped to alleviate some of those concerns.

Fluckiger took a big leap, that rings alarm bells. Saying Nino shouldn't be competitive at his age is tough as a metric considering how much room to slow he had until other equal talents arrived.

Just my 2c. Not worth any more or less than any other opinion of course.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Feels like a lot of riders mis-timed their peak for this world championships, a lot of instagram posts about feeling off and not on form. A couple of riders that I thought would do better:


Loana Lecomte (4th)
Anne Terpstra (6th)
Sina Frei (45th)


Tom Pidcock (4th)
Filippo Columbo (9th)
Vlad Dascalu (16th)
Maxime Marotte (27th)
Titouan Carod (51st)

As for the subject of doping, after way too many disappointments in road cycling I just enjoy the competitions and the technical skills but I would never say with certainty that a specific rider is doping or not doping, no-one other than the rider knows that for certain, so I don't see the point in speculating until they actually get caught. Since 99% of the athletes eat supplements, if there was a problem with tainted supplements there would be a lot more positive tests in my opinion.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

LMN said:


> A doper cost my wife WC overall title in 2009, between bonuses and prize money that was $50,000 hit. Maybe other posters have had a similar experience but I doubt it. I have also had the exerience of my wife being called a doper just because she was the dominant rider at the time. Have been through that I have little tolerance for people who challenge someones credibility just because they are good.
> 
> I fully admit that I don't have a clue how someone could get away with doping. And, I am guessing, other than the olympians who occasionaly post here I am way more informed on anti-doping protcols and procedures. I think anybody claiming they know how doping works is
> a) either full of crap
> ...


If internet is not wrong, in 2009 WC overall was 1. Osl, 2. Byberg, 3. Pendrel. Both Osl and Byberg were dopers?
And second... in which of a.) or b.) do you fit then, considering you are pretty good dismissing everyone else when it comes to this? I'm sure you have plenty of experiences in sport, but you are not the only one here who have been in top level sport, actually who's wife has been in top level sport. Believe it or not, there are other's who have be "slightly" more involved in top level sport then just through "my wife was in top". Now feel offended or not, it's fine with me.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Skier78 said:


> Feels like a lot of riders mis-timed their peak for this world championships, a lot of instagram posts about feeling off and not on form. A couple of riders that I thought would do better:
> 
> 
> Loana Lecomte (4th)
> ...


I agree, and there are plenty more who said similar things. Thing is, it's not unusual at MTB Worlds for riders to have these performances, there are quite often 'strange' results. In the U23 Vidaurre had a right off day, despite a good start, and Stigger was never seen - though she wasn't confident before the race, so one assumes she's had a health issue. (I think I've read she has an allergy/ asthma).


When I compare it to the CX Worlds, it's quite different; most of the time, the top names perform as expected, as seen throughout the season. It's unusual for somebody to win a Worlds without having won a World Cup. I wonder if it's because MTB has a larger, stacked field, with riders of much similar ability, that just a slight drop in performance/ mis timed prep can result in off days. 

Even now, 6 months before, I'd be confident of picking the top 3 of the Elite CX Worlds in men's & women's. I couldn't do the same in XCO, even a few hours before the race.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

The thing that's puzzling to me about Nino is he seems better this year, at age 36, than he was in 2020 and 2021. Is the competition just not as good this year or has Nino just been more focused and committed this year. I thought Nino would continue to decline but it seems not so.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> The thing that's puzzling to me about Nino is he seems better this year, at age 36, than he was in 2020 and 2021. Is the competition just not as good this year or has Nino just been more focused and committed this year. I thought Nino would continue to decline but it seems not so.


Apparently not buying into Nino fanboyism is lame. History has shown us that healthy skeptism is not misplaced.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Exmuhle said:


> I agree, and there are plenty more who said similar things. Thing is, it's not unusual at MTB Worlds for riders to have these performances, there are quite often 'strange' results. In the U23 Vidaurre had a right off day, despite a good start, and Stigger was never seen - though she wasn't confident before the race, so one assumes she's had a health issue. (I think I've read she has an allergy/ asthma).
> 
> 
> When I compare it to the CX Worlds, it's quite different; most of the time, the top names perform as expected, as seen throughout the season. It's unusual for somebody to win a Worlds without having won a World Cup. I wonder if it's because MTB has a larger, stacked field, with riders of much similar ability, that just a slight drop in performance/ mis timed prep can result in off days.
> ...


I think the difference to CX is that there are two riders (MVDP and Van Aert) that are just so much faster than anyone else, so if they ride the race and don't have technical issues one of them will win. Behind those two I think it is much more uncertain who would win. In XCO Nino has gotten slower and the other riders seem to peak for one or max two years, so there it is a much more open field. A couple of years ago it was much more fun to watch the womens race than the mens race because in the mens race it felt like it was either Nino or Absalon that would win. I think it is more fun now, it was great to see Valero being able to really push Nino yesterday. 

For worlds I think one other reason for strange results can be that once they realize they are out of the top 10 they stop pushing, since it is only the result for one day, rather than for the world cup where they are looking for points for the overall as well as the victory.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

xcskier66 said:


> 1. I’ve don’t really like Pauline but I always want to see her race well. She’s maybe the most talented bike racer ever man or woman. Now that she has her eating disorder figured out and is willing to do true mtb training (weights, jumps,etc…) no one can stop her on peak form.I would love to see her line up at the road world championships. Might as well?
> 
> 2. Nino won because he is the greatest mtb racer ever. I think a fully peaked pidcock might have beat him but that would mean no tour or spring classics. Personally, I’d rather win the mont
> Ventoux tdf stage than mtb world champs. I bet his wallet prefers road wins too!


Pauline Ferrand Prevot had iliac artery endofibrosis and required surgery in both 2018 and 2020 when it came back again despite the original surgery. According to the articles at the time she’d had issues with leg pain from that since at least 2015 and that condition has a seriously negative affect on performance:



https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ferrand-prevot-out-for-four-months-with-iliac-artery-endofibrosis/



I was really happy to see her doing so well.

Seeing Nino Schurter win was good too. Unlike the years where he would just win everything, a bit boring to watch as a spectator, the close races this year have made for some tense viewing not knowing what was going to happen next!


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> If internet is not wrong, in 2009 WC overall was 1. Osl, 2. Byberg, 3. Pendrel. Both Osl and Byberg were dopers?
> And second... in which of a.) or b.) do you fit then, considering you are pretty good dismissing everyone else when it comes to this? I'm sure you have plenty of experiences in sport, but you are not the only one here who have been in top level sport, actually who's wife has been in top level sport. Believe it or not, there are other's who have be "slightly" more involved in top level sport then just through "my wife was in top". Now feel offended or not, it's fine with me.


No it was points loss to Margaret Fulana that difference maker. Cost two wins, one directly the other because of a late race incident.

We make assumptions about peoples involvement in sport just as you are making an incorrect assumption about the limits of my involvement. The people who are actually involved in sport are going around calling people dopers because they are fast.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

LMN said:


> No it was points loss to Margaret Fulana that difference maker. Cost two wins, one directly the other because of a late race incident.
> 
> We make assumptions about peoples involvement in sport just as you are making an incorrect assumption about the limits of my involvement. * The people who are actually involved in sport are going around calling people dopers because they are fast*.


You do realize you are doing exactly same now? Fullana tested positive for sample collected on 30.8.2010. This mean, she was clean whole 2009 season, which means she was just fast in 2009.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

WR304 said:


> Pauline Ferrand Prevot had iliac artery endofibrosis and required surgery in both 2018 and 2020 when it came back again despite the original surgery. According to the articles at the time she’d had issues with leg pain from that since at least 2015 and that condition has a seriously negative affect on performance:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


To come back from that type of ''injury'' and surgery, takes a lot of time. Others don't ever come back like...


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

primoz said:


> You do realize you are doing exactly same now? Fullana tested positive for sample collected on 30.8.2010. This mean, she was clean whole 2009 season, which means she was just fast in 2009.


LOL.



https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/fullana-positive-for-epo/



_"*In 2007, Fullana was pulled from the world championship competition due to a high hematocrit reading*. She blamed a broken arm and subsequent healing and treatment for causing the high reading."_


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> You do realize you are doing exactly same now? Fullana tested positive for sample collected on 30.8.2010. This mean, she was clean whole 2009 season, which means she was just fast in 2009.


She was caught wasn’t she. What I am saying is anti programs will catch cheaters, maybe not right away but they will catch them. In 2009-2010 the anti-doping programs were pretty weak and inconsistent and it still caught her.


A lot of people base their opinions on what happen 10 to 20 years ago.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> A lot of people base their opinions on what happen 10 to 20 years ago.


And some of those opinions were once again confirmed 3 weeks ago😉


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Le Duke said:


> LOL.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wait just a minute...are you arguing that dopers dope???

My problem with accusing anyone, including Nino, is: if you have some evidence...then bring it forward and each of us can evaluate it and form our own "Court of public opinion." Otherwise it's BS to call someone a doper (even if not directly, but thinly veiled). 

I'm not necessarily talking about a positive test, but maybe the name of his dog is in some doctors records...maybe some syringes were found in his roommate's brother's bottom dresser drawer...maybe his wife was found with empty bottles labeled "secret sauce." And, no, another Swiss rider testing positive doesn't count...1) they don't seem to like each other, so doubtful that their training overlaps and 2) by that logic: everyone is a doper!

I'm pretty new following UCI XC racing scene, but has there been anything like that around Nino...or just hens pecking and sewing circle gossip about someone faster than them (or their athletes)...b/c if it's the latter, that's just garbage.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

My thought is that anyone who can be as consistent as Nino over a very long period of time is not likely to be a doper. That consistency suggests a once-in-a-lifetime talent, which obviously can exist. Is it possible that he's doping? Sure. Anything's possible. But I think he would've been caught by now if so since he's always at the top (always getting tested) and since it would be challenging to travel as far as Australia and South Africa with doping "supplies." There are plenty of people who would love nothing more than to snitch on Nino if they could find any evidence and I don't believe that you can successfully dope without leaving a trail of evidence, well hidden though it may be.

I agree with some others here that I want to watch the sport without always assuming that every great win is due to cheating. If it comes out later, so be it, but heavy pessimism isn't the mood I'm going for when I watch races.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

This is my last post on doping on this thread.

I am advocate for clean athletes. Part of that is not accusing athletes of doping just because they are fast or because I don't like them. But more importantly cleaner sport involves the belief that you can be best and be clean. If you don't believe that, then I certainly hope you aren't coaching kids.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> This is my last post on doping on this thread.
> 
> I am advocate for clean athletes. Part of that is not accusing athletes of doping just because they are fast or because I don't like them. But more importantly cleaner sport involves the belief that you can be best and be clean. If you don't believe that, then I certainly hope you aren't coaching kids.


As a USAC Safe Sport certification holder I obviously agree with this, but it is hard to simply ignore reality. We have some very high performing young athletes here in town at Colorado Mesa University who have second place medals from collegiate road and track nationals, both individual and team, who lost out standing on the top step due to a young lady with multiple national championships to her name who recently accepted a multi year ban for admitting to doping. That is reality.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cassieno said:


> I saw that. I assumed Sina ran into her and injured Githa, felt bad, so stopped to help her.


I don't know. The camera cut to them after the fact. I do know this, both of them were having a bad day and it's a pretty good indicator of character when you're having a bad day and stop to help someone who's having an even worse one. In my book, a Gold Star for Sina.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Part of the weird results at world this year was due to illness. I guess there was some sort of bug going around (specualtion that it was from drinking water). Lots of people didn't race or were really ill. Combine that with everyone getting COVID in the past 2 months and it was a total crap shoot.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

LMN said:


> Part of the weird results at world this year was due to illness. I guess there was some sort of bug going around (specualtion that it was from drinking water). Lots of people didn't race or were really ill. Combine that with everyone getting COVID in the past 2 months and it was a total crap shoot.


I know Laura Stigger & Sina Frei have both been down with "IT". IINM, that's why both of them didn't make the N/A races.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

uintah said:


> As a USAC Safe Sport certification holder I obviously agree with this, but it is hard to simply ignore reality. We have some very high performing young athletes here in town at Colorado Mesa University who have second place medals from collegiate road and track nationals, both individual and team, who lost out standing on the top step due to a young lady with multiple national championships to her name who recently accepted a multi year ban for admitting to doping. That is reality.


Now put those athletes on the top step. How would it have felt to have them accused of doping?

If you doubt the beautiful triumphs of sport, why bother watching and participating if every victory is suspect to being a farce?

I do believe in the law of averages and that human performance exists on a normal distribution. This makes consistent victory by one individual highly unlikely unless other factors are at play. I do believe that Nino has been blessed incredible natural talent. I also believe that external factors such as financial backing and support systems for him surpass that of other athletes. Support systems like that don't run very deep through the ranks in mountain biking. Combine those two factors and consistent outperforming of others becomes a possibility.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

brentos said:


> Now put those athletes on the top step. How would it have felt to have them accused of doping?


Show me where I said anyone accused Olivia of doping just because she was dominant. It was probably quite the opposite. My point is you can't just simply dismiss the possibility that it exists by saying there is no way you could get away with it in this day and age because of how stringent testing protocol is. That is B.S. and he knows it.

Edit: by the way, she passed every test she took, in and out of competition. (She was also on an UCI registered WT team). Her boyfriend who accepted a lifetime ban, turned her in to USADA or some such craziness.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Pidcock posted on social media about the bug. Three more people I know personally also suffered from it.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Mona Mitterwallner apparently got a positive COVID test result either the morning of or the morning before European Champs and kept it secret from her team manager and teammates (at least that's what Bart said on the Redbull stream yesterday). I know that all the athletes are no stranger to all manner of "bugs" right now, but is that even allowed (to hide a confirmed positive result)? That seems like a poor choice in terms of protecting others.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

carlostruco said:


> Pidcock posted on social media about the bug. Three more people I know personally also suffered from it.


He may have had a bug, but I think his result was due more to expending too much energy to race to the front after just 1-2 laps. He looked fast most of the time (some of those uphill sprints were absolteluy insane) and only looked visibly tired/frustrated/over it late in the race. It's too bad if he did have a bug, though.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

roth88 said:


> Mona Mitterwallner apparently got a positive COVID test result either the morning of or the morning before European Champs and kept it secret from her team manager and teammates (at least that's what Bart said on the Redbull stream yesterday). I know that all the athletes are no stranger to all manner of "bugs" right now, but is that even allowed (to hide a confirmed positive result)? That seems like a poor choice in terms of protecting others.


She may be a good rider but her behavior does not impress me in the slightest.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Augustus-G said:


> She may be a good rider but her behavior does not impress me in the slightest.


It impressed me before (I like a rider that doesn't hesitate to talk about goals without downplaying/obfuscating), but if what Bart said is true, then I'm definitely not impressed this time. It didn't even pay off for her! Her result at Europeans was very low by her standards and it may have affected her performance at Worlds too, although 7th place is still very respectable.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

roth88 said:


> It impressed me before (I like a rider that doesn't hesitate to talk about goals without downplaying/obfuscating), but if what Bart said is true, then I'm definitely not impressed this time. It didn't even pay off for her! Her result at Europeans was very low by her standards and it may have affected her performance at Worlds too, although 7th place is still very respectable.


Her behavior at Leogang and especially the way she treated Manuel Fumic after the race really soured me on her. 
I'll leave it at that.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Interesting reading Bec McConnell posts on IG and thinking about the season in retrospect. I thought it would be a hard task to maintain form when she seemed to be firing right off the bat. She seems genuinely dissappointed/that they had planned for the late season peak. 

A lot of the riders strongest at the start of the year have struggled at this end of the season. Or at least the ones that had lifted their levels.

I'm hoping a couple of them will sign up to something like Cape Epic as I think it helps build for some riders. Admittedly it took almost the whole season for Batten and Blevins to reap the rewards, though neither are consistent at the front of the World Cup field anyway, it seemed they both are going great this end of the season. I think Anton would benefit from an Epic.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Augustus-G said:


> Her behavior at Leogang and especially the way she treated Manuel Fumic after the race really soured me on her.
> I'll leave it at that.


I mean, she is only 20. I'm sure I was not optimally pleasant back when I was 20 as well.

That said, what'd she do to Manny?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

First year elites, people expected her to come in like Loana and dominate everything. Bart and Rob have both said she is a disappointment (compared to expectations) AND she is 20.

I feel for her. 

Her covid call was still dumb. Did she think she was going to win?


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Hey, Jose! What Team are you on? With Tom? With GB?










Jose Antonio Hermida was seen doing laps with Pidcock...


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

carlostruco said:


> Hey, Jose! What Team are you on? With Tom? With GB?
> 
> View attachment 1997852
> 
> ...


Not a good look. Operation Puerto! Anyone know what MTB team he is associated with? I know he has been connected to the Bahrain Victorious road team.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

roth88 said:


> My thought is that anyone who can be as consistent as Nino over a very long period of time is not likely to be a doper. That consistency suggests a once-in-a-lifetime talent, which obviously can exist.


Yet that was the same argument used the other way with Katie Fk'in Compton.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Sam Gaze: Broken collarbone and ribs...

__
http://instagr.am/p/Ch01qfhKfy-/


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

roth88 said:


> Mona Mitterwallner apparently got a positive COVID test result either the morning of or the morning before European Champs and kept it secret from her team manager and teammates (at least that's what Bart said on the Redbull stream yesterday). I know that all the athletes are no stranger to all manner of "bugs" right now, but is that even allowed (to hide a confirmed positive result)? That seems like a poor choice in terms of protecting others.


This not true. She had covid 10days before European champs and was feeling flat. She’s clearly not recovered yet and this may take some time. I’m not sure about any altercation with Manny but he’s a pretty chilled character, maybe too chilled to cope with Mona, and understands the athlete personality. He’s new to the team manager role too so he’ll make mistakes. Team dynamics are not a problem


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

NordieBoy said:


> Sam Gaze: Broken collarbone and ribs...
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/Ch01qfhKfy-/



That's a bummer. Wonder if he would have made the error w/ a dropper (was he running a dropper?).

Also, his post strikes me as a bit victimesque...I mean he made the mistake, so he may not, in fact, "deserve more". I don't even know what he was trying to get at. Either way, I am bummed for him. 

_Unfortunately a small error left me with a broken collarbone and ribs. @alpecindeceuninck, the staff at the race and my loved ones deserved more, to be honest I deserved more._


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

LMN said:


> This is my last post on doping on this thread.
> 
> I am advocate for clean athletes. Part of that is not accusing athletes of doping just because they are fast or because I don't like them. But more importantly cleaner sport involves the belief that you can be best and be clean. If you don't believe that, then I certainly hope you aren't coaching kids.


Clap clap clutches hearts 
Wonderful emotive post.
You use plural. I said I’m sceptical about one person. You seem to have far to much emotion invested in this to be rational.
One can be best and be clean. Many examples out there. Many examples on the other side of the fence that either get caught or don’t. 
Cleaner sport does not involve being best, maybe desiring and striving to be the best but most importantly it’s about being clean and accepting you won’t always be the best. 

Your last comment is laughable.


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

bikeranzin said:


> I mean, she is only 20. I'm sure I was not optimally pleasant back when I was 20 as well.


Not knowing the exact situation with Mittenwalner, but I see a lot of this in motorsports. Young guys, full of adrenaline who say things in the heat of the moment as they crash into each other, then calm down afterwards and apologise (who also have good media minders who remind them they need to do it  )



mail_liam said:


> Interesting reading Bec McConnell posts on IG and thinking about the season in retrospect.


Yeah, she really wears her heart on her sleeve. It's been a rollercoaster ride this season.

BTW does anyone know when the replays might be on SBS On Demand (for Aussies)? I was only able to watch U23 men live, but when I search for it in the app I can't see anything except 2021 replays when I looked last night.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Mona said on her own Instagram that she got sick "in the week of European champs." It's very possible Bart had bad intel about it being on the literal morning of the race (or the day before), but I don't know any way to verify. I also don't know anything about their team dynamics at Cannondale. Either way, I hope Mona did not race with an active positive test result because that is bad for her as a racer and for those around her.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Brad said:


> Clap clap clutches hearts
> Wonderful emotive post.
> You use plural. I said I’m sceptical about one person. You seem to have far to much emotion invested in this to be rational.
> One can be best and be clean. Many examples out there. Many examples on the other side of the fence that either get caught or don’t.
> ...


Schurteringer's Cat. Currently he lives in a superposition of doping and not doping. If that wave function ever collapses, you can be relieved to know that in some (infinite set) of universes, each person gets to be right about whether he was doping, and the others were wrong.

Granted, the same rules apply to Lance, so there are also an infinite set of universes where he was doping and nobody ever found out, but also the universes where he's actually clean.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

bikeranzin said:


> That said, what'd she do to Manny?


I'm going to let you make your own mind up about it. 
Watch the end of the race when she pulls off the track into the cool down area.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

She got off her bike and walked away from him pissed. Then some other guy force hugged her which she barely seemed to accept. 

This was the race she was crashed out in the beginning and didn't seem to be able to mentally recover from. She stood. For. So. Long. before she decided to run to the tech zone for help. 

I think this is just her being a young racer who doesn't know how to persever yet.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

cassieno said:


> She got off her bike and walked away from him pissed. Then some other guy force hugged her which she barely seemed to accept.
> 
> This was the race she was crashed out in the beginning and didn't seem to be able to mentally recover from. She stood. For. So. Long. before she decided to run to the tech zone for help.
> 
> I think this is just her being a young racer who doesn't know how to persever yet.


From the outside looking in, it looks like things have always come easy for her. She will grow from her experience this year I think. 

Will be interesting to see if she (and who else) heads to XCM World's. PFP could go for the triple XC crown. Anton is signed up for it, though I don't know if he'll race or not. Sam Gaze was, but he is obviously laid up now.

Would be cool if Keegan went. Might not fit his schedule/goals though.


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Yeah...I'm not seeing anything in that video of Mona at the end of Leogang. She looks dejected as hell and passes the bike to Fumic silently. What am I missing?

That ride was impressive - coming back from DFL to 13th on home turf is no joke. I would've been exhausted and dejected too. That being said, I do appreciate when a rider can show graciousness to the fans and team at the end of the race and save the anger/frustration/sadness for later. They don't need to be robots, of course, but there can be a balance.

Also, I believe Mona intends to defend her title at XCM Worlds. I think she said so in a Pinkbike interview.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I doubt Mona will do well on that xcm track, it is only 1500m climbing over 120km with really fast tracks. I would guess on someone with a high absolute power to win that.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Matt Beers will be racing it I think. He should do really well with his crazy engine.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I _think_ Luca Schwarzbaumer won the German XCM title this year too didn't he? He seems just about cooked for the season too, but if he can gather up the motivation he'd be fast over a course like that.


----------



## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

cassieno said:


> Matt Beers will be racing it I think. He should do really well with his crazy engine.


I don't think they will let him race in the womens category  but otherwise I agree.
It would be cool if Niki Terpstra raced it, he did quite well in Leadville despite all that climbing not really suiting his height/weight. Alban Lakata has also done ok in the last races, he produces a lot of power as well. 

I don't know the womens xcm racers well enough to guess, someone like Evie Richards or Alessandra Keller look powerful, Jenny Rissveds is also good at long distances and have a good power output. 

Just because I am guessing a high power rider will win it will probably be a superlight climber winning both the mens and womens races...


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

uintah said:


> Not a good look. Operation Puerto! Anyone know what MTB team he is associated with? I know he has been connected to the Bahrain Victorious road team.


I think he's more of an ambassador for Merida bikes than any team in general. He seems to be Tom's MTB guru......

As for the Sam Gaze 'off', I'd have to watch again, but it looked like he changed line trying to avoid somebody in front


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

UCI Mountain Bike Marathon World Championships - Haderslev 2022 MTB


Haderslev - Vært for 2022 UCI Mountain Bike Marathon World Championships. - Cykel en tur på mountain bike og test sporet på UCI Mountain Bike Marathonet.




www.haderslev2022mtb.com





UCI MTB Marathon Worlds info


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I'm hoping Evie Richards will race some CX this fall/winter. It seems like she only has a handful of races this year due to injury and illness. Would her contract with Trek be a set salary or does her pay also depend on bonuses and race starts?


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

What time of year are rider transfers announced generally? Is there a specific date similar to Aug 1 for road teams?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

uintah said:


> What time of year are rider transfers announced generally? Is there a specific date similar to Aug 1 for road teams?


One would think it's the same, however, quite often nothing is said until 1st January, when the news breaks, and then we see riders in the new kit. Sometimes we get news earlier, mainly after the season has finished. Though I recall Neff joining Trek in the autumn of 2018 after leaving Kross.

The one I always find slightly mad is riders swapping teams in the middle of the CX season; that should really be Sept 1st.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

In past seasons, we had to wait until new calendar year to hear from athletes themselves. I remember two years ago Sarrou's contract was up with BMC and he signed with Spesh before winning World Champs. He must have lost a few buck in earnings from the new team.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Contract announcements fall in line with uci contract guidelines. So 1 September. Announcements will be anytime agreed between departed team rider and destination team and after 1 September is how I understand it


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Speaking of team changes, I have to wonder if others on the Scott team (besides Nino) are eager for a change. I can't imagine it's easy to work under his shadow. You could argue (very reasonably, too) that working with someone like Nino is worth being overshadowed, but at the same time, I wonder if they might reach their own full potential elsewhere.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Any rumors or factual info on teams/sponsors coming and going? I know Norco is folding the XC program.


----------



## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

cassieno said:


> She got off her bike and walked away from him pissed. Then some other guy force hugged her which she barely seemed to accept.
> 
> This was the race she was crashed out in the beginning and didn't seem to be able to mentally recover from. She stood. For. So. Long. before she decided to run to the tech zone for help.
> 
> I think this is just her being a young racer who doesn't know how to persever yet.


I wasn't going to get into this but since you've pressed.
I think she behaves like a petulant, spoiled 5 year old daddy's girl and I have no use for the sort.
You don't see Laura Stigger or any of the other young riders acting in that fashion when they have a bad day. I don't accept her age as an excuse. 
The way she treated Manny was rude and uncalled for. 
We'll have to agree to disagree.


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

uintah said:


> Any rumors or factual info on teams/sponsors coming and going? I know Norco is folding the XC program.


Where did you hear that?!


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

arca_tern said:


> Where did you hear that?!





arca_tern said:


> Where did you hear that?!


Thought I read it somewhere. Could be wrong.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

PFP is rumoured to be on the hunt for a new team. Liv are rumoured to link up again with her but I reckon she has a few options.
Not aware of Norco pulling the plug on their Zc team but if it’s true it’s a huge shame for North American riders. There needs to be more commitment from manufacturers into this discipline.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

We saw Martin Vidaurre (U23) travel and get support from Scott-SRAM during the NA leg. 









Pauline Ferrand-Prevot se sincera: "Mezclar la vida profesional y personal ha sido una de las mayores lecciones de mi carrera"


Pauline Ferrand-Prevot explica todo lo que ha vivido en este fin de semana de éxitos en Les Gets y en los pasados meses




esmtb.com





Apparently Julien is a bit mad at the whole break up with PFP. She doesn't say his name, but she implies on the situation about a mad man going all the way...


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

North American teams tend to use a different ownership model than European teams: Specialized, Trek, Norco, the old Cliff team and going way back the Rocky Mountain team were owned an operated by the the title sponsor. Whereas the European teams tend to have an owner that is seperate from the title sponsor.

The factory teams tend to have a much more financial flexibility. Pluses and minus to that, the big minus is it is easy for the team to get too big. But the real challenge is if there is a change in the direction of the title sponsor the team is done. Some times the team splits into smaller teams, for example the cliff team staff and some infastructure went to Specialized Off Road and to a lesser extent Maxxis Factory Team but often everything is gone.


----------



## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

uintah said:


> Any rumors or factual info on teams/sponsors coming and going? I know Norco is folding the XC program.


Rumour going around that the Revolver will be discontinued. Shame if true, great bike, despite the weight.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Augustus-G said:


> I wasn't going to get into this but since you've pressed.
> I think she behaves like a petulant, spoiled 5 year old daddy's girl and I have no use for the sort.
> You don't see Laura Stigger or any of the other young riders acting in that fashion when they have a bad day. I don't accept her age as an excuse.
> The way she treated Manny was rude and uncalled for.
> We'll have to agree to disagree.


That reaction seems very excessive based on that one video. Mona absolutely does not seem like a "spoiled daddy's girl" - far from it. Her reaction was nowhere near as rude as countless others I've seen from the men. I'm pretty sure Fumic is a big boy who can handle a rider silently passing him a bike.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

carlostruco said:


> We saw Martin Vidaurre (U23) travel and get support from Scott-SRAM during the NA leg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder if Vidaurre will be brought into the Scott-SRAM fold - he's on a development team, right?


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

He's probably one of the hottest riders at the moment that everyone wants


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

roth88 said:


> I wonder if Vidaurre will be brought into the Scott-SRAM fold - he's on a development team, right?


He is with Lexware Pro Team. I could be wrong, but this is his final year under contract with them.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Lahrs said:


> Rumour going around that the Revolver will be discontinued. Shame if true, great bike, despite the weight.


That would be too bad...I never really thought of them as XC until Carter Woods and, this year, Gwendalyn G. It would be a shame if they folded now, but I guess those two will go on to bigger and better.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

That aligns with the fact their hasn't been a new Revolver for two years and the current one is on closeout (great deal for a bike that was a bit overpriced new - I'm jealous).


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> We saw Martin Vidaurre (U23) travel and get support from Scott-SRAM during the NA leg.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Google Translate of the ESMTB Pauline Ferrand Prevot interview:









Pauline Ferrand-Prevot se sincera: "Mezclar la vida profesional y personal ha sido una de las mayores lecciones de mi carrera"


Pauline Ferrand-Prevot explica todo lo que ha vivido en este fin de semana de éxitos en Les Gets y en los pasados meses




esmtb.com





------------------------------

"Pauline Ferrand-Prevot has become one of the stars of the MTB World Championship in Les Gets. The Frenchwoman won two gold medals taking the Short Track World Championship on Friday and the XCO World Championship on Sunday. This year she has experienced a difficult season personally, something that was reflected in the division between the structure of BMC Racing, in which the French rider had her own work team separated from the rest of her. After betting all year on a single race and going well, Pauline Ferrand-Prevot has opened up and explained everything she has experienced in recent months.

I slept 1 hour at night from Sunday to Monday. Not because I was partying, but because I couldn't sleep… we all ate together with the France team, and it was lovely that my loved ones were able to stay. Everything happens so fast on days like these. Between the finish line, the obligatory step of the interviews, the anti-doping control, the podium... you are trapped in something where everything goes at 1000km/h (yes, that's a lot). 

*«It was necessary to recover from a season described as a failure by many people, because she simply had not won a medal at the Olympics» *

I couldn't take a shower until 7 p.m. (sorry for all the people who were around me during that time, but it was the best moment of my day). I had hardly seen my parents… You even ask yourself, “but why did you do all this to have so little time to enjoy it?” And you realize that the moment in which you enjoy all this the most, is precisely in the day to day of these last months. When you prepare from the beginning of the year just for this. This winter it was necessary to recover from a season described as a failure by many people, because I simply had not achieved a medal in the Olympic Games (after a fall and a puncture). But the whole season I was on the World Cup podiums and I won the European championships.

It was then that we had to question everything and make decisions. It was necessary to do shadow work. I worked on my technique with Cecile (Ravanel). Spend hours in the gym. I watched downhill videos (and got addicted to them). I would get up at 5.30 in the morning to go to do a lift training in Italy, where you know very well that you ride with the best in the world in the discipline and that everyone will be waiting for you all day (I hate that I wait). It was so good, it was so much fun. But it's not my world… Before I was basically doing cyclocross in the winter! And there were also those personal problems, which were not originally problems, but which took on a dimension that I would not have imagined. 

*"Mixing professional and personal life has been one of the biggest lessons of my career." *

Mixing professional and personal life has been one of the biggest lessons of my career. And an annoying man will go all the way (and it looks like he's not done yet, haha…) We had to rebuild a solid little circle of people around me. There are people who are only there for who you are. And people who love you as you are. Obviously, this context makes it a bit more complicated to make decisions during the season: I decided to dedicate myself 100% to a single objective, which is very risky and brings pressure. additional.

But anyway I'm afraid of boredom, I like challenges and take risks. It is that pressure (which you sometimes hate) that motivates you the most to go to training, and the one that makes you improve yourself. It's that pressure to play it all in one race that takes you out of your comfort zone. From training at altitude for the first time alone, for example, or changing my way of training, to training more depending on how I felt, feeling alone at first, with my coach always present if necessary, but alone if I felt I needed it (because I know myself better than anyone, even though science is still science… thanks, Barry – your coach –)

I'm not just talking about performance, but about a general state. Because all this is just sport, but everyone's goal is to be happy. But this state of happiness is not a linear thing. It comes and goes with the ups and downs of life. This is what is going through my head right now. I'm very happy these last few days, but above all I'm very happy with my season (and it's not over). Because I'm still motivated and a lot of beautiful things are happening. He told me on the podium that I had to take advantage of the present moment. But, in fact, you just have to take advantage of all the moments of life. Thanks for all the messages…impossible to reply to all of them, so don't blame me. On the other hand, I try to make you live a few moments of my life. To those who "treat" me as an instagrammer, I take it very well. Each one does what he wants, lives as he wants. But sharing with you in this way is the best way to be a little closer to those who support me. So thanks." *ESMTB*

------------------------------


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Brad said:


> PFP is rumoured to be on the hunt for a new team. Liv are rumoured to link up again with her but I reckon she has a few options.


That's not the biggest surprise - as she's currently 'in a team within a team'. I doubt she'll be short of offers.....


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Course looks awesome.

Going to be very interesting to see who shows up with any form and who is cooked.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

It's hard to tell what's going on with PFP and Absalon in that translation, but I'm more interested in her work with Cecile Ravanel. Ravanel also coaches Vali Hoell on the downhill side and Vali just won her first elite World Championships at Les Gets. Clearly that secret sauce works. I'd love to see a training video or day in the life video showing the kinds of things Pauline worked on with Ravanel.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> The thing that's puzzling to me about Nino is he seems better this year, at age 36, than he was in 2020 and 2021. Is the competition just not as good this year or has Nino just been more focused and committed this year. I thought Nino would continue to decline but it seems not so.





roth88 said:


> Speaking of team changes, I have to wonder if others on the Scott team (besides Nino) are eager for a change. I can't imagine it's easy to work under his shadow. You could argue (very reasonably, too) that working with someone like Nino is worth being overshadowed, but at the same time, I wonder if they might reach their own full potential elsewhere.


2020 and 2021 were a bit different in that they were the Covid years where everything was disrupted and locked down. In 2020 all the World Cup races were compressed into a very short timeframe of just a few weeks and some different names were visible at the front, possibly as a result of how much, or little disruption there had been. It seemed to be the riders who could still get out and train easily with the best form.

Anne Terpstra was a good example - strong and winning races in 2019, nowhere for a few years then strong and winning races again in 2022.

Nino Schurter might not have been able to get his training fully dialled in, maybe missing some training camps, gym sessions etc that he relied on for fine tuning and preparation. A possible part of that being that the Cape Epic stage race, an early season training race for building form up to the XCO World Cups, was cancelled in 2020 and held late in the year in 2021. He rode it in 2019 and also in 2022 as part of his preparation which was missing for 2020 and 2021.

There was a good video (posted in this thread 100s of posts ago! ) of the Scott SRAM team at the 2022 Cape Epic. I could just imagine how their team meetings before every single stage went from the comments in it.

Lars Forster: "I'm a bit tired today"

Nino Schurter: "Today we will win by attacking from the very start!"

Lars Forster: "... 😂😂😂😂 "

Watch out for the stage where Nino Schurter is attacking off the front up the climb and then Lars Forster realises he needs to try and keep up and is having to sprint after him! It's the preview main picture of the video too. You can see Lars Forster at the front of the chase group in the preview with Nino Schurter way out front.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

WR304 said:


> Lars Forster: "I'm a bit tired today"
> 
> Nino Schurter: "Today I get ANOTHER flat!"
> 
> Lars Forster: "... 😂😂😂😂 "


Fixed this for you


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

cassieno said:


> Fixed this for you


It made for a good training session - sprint, stop, sprint, stop every day!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

roth88 said:


> It's hard to tell what's going on with PFP and Absalon in that translation, but I'm more interested in her work with Cecile Ravanel. Ravanel also coaches Vali Hoell on the downhill side and Vali just won her first elite World Championships at Les Gets. Clearly that secret sauce works. I'd love to see a training video or day in the life video showing the kinds of things Pauline worked on with Ravanel.


She was displaying impressive skills through the trees, roots and jumps. Even Jolanda didn't look as smooth so Pauline has made huge strides in her technical riding. Whatever Ravanel has taught her has transformed her riding.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

WR304 said:


> It made for a good training session - sprint, stop, sprint, stop every day!


for Nino is was base training.. For Lars it was too much Threshold that has cost him this season. The partnership wasn't working. He was totally spent at the end of the race. He actually looked pale despite the heat.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Brad said:


> She was displaying impressive skills through the trees, roots and jumps. Even Jolanda didn't look as smooth so Pauline has made huge strides in her technical riding. Whatever Ravanel has taught her has transformed her riding.


I honestly think she played mind games with the others, especially Loana, and it took the "drive" out of others to go after her. After short track, and what happened at Euro champs, Loana had to have mentally been broken when she took off from the first lap and didn't look back. You could sense that PFP was not playing around this time. I've been in local races where mentally I just had to accept that I didn't have it to go after someone or catch them, and focused on a new goal. Even though it's the world champs, that sure looked like the case.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I honestly think she played mind games with the others, especially Loana, and it took the "drive" out of others to go after her. After short track, and what happened at Euro champs, Loana had to have mentally been broken when she took off from the first lap and didn't look back. You could sense that PFP was not playing around this time. I've been in local races where mentally I just had to accept that I didn't have it to go after someone or catch them, and focused on a new goal. Even though it's the world champs, that sure looked like the case.


Loana did have a stomach bug in the week before LesGets too so that also played a role


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I thought Jolanda looked incredible and still a bit better than Pauline on the downhill, but that Pauline looked amazing in those tight turns through the trees (the ones that tripped up Pidcock). She could turn on a dime in a way that other riders just weren't doing.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Yeah because she was riding a hardtail. As proven in that one race, hardtails are superior.

Ignore my profile pic, I have no bias towards hardtails.

This has been an excellent season for a fan (DH side also).


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

roth88 said:


> It's hard to tell what's going on with PFP and Absalon in that translation, but I'm more interested in her work with Cecile Ravanel. Ravanel also coaches Vali Hoell on the downhill side and Vali just won her first elite World Championships at Les Gets. Clearly that secret sauce works. I'd love to see a training video or day in the life video showing the kinds of things Pauline worked on with Ravanel.


There's a little bit of insight here if you haven't read it yet



https://www.pinkbike.com/news/profile-pauline-ferrand-prevot-on-training-with-cecile-ravanel-depression-disordered-eating-and-more.html


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Most people know Ravanel as Enduro racer, but she was 7th at XCO world championships in 2009. Might have been related to that course being pretty technical for the time period. But still, she was good XC racer.


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## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> That aligns with the fact their hasn't been a new Revolver for two years and the current one is on closeout (great deal for a bike that was a bit overpriced new - I'm jealous).


Where’s the close out?! Who’s got stock? /back to regular xco discussion 😜


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

meschenbruch said:


> There's a little bit of insight here if you haven't read it yet
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/profile-pauline-ferrand-prevot-on-training-with-cecile-ravanel-depression-disordered-eating-and-more.html


I watched a rebull.tv documentary with Rob Warner interviewing the pro's. In the episode where he interviewed Pauline one could sense there was a huge difference in personality between Julien and Pauline and the only way that would work was if they either focussed on their personal relationship together or the professional one but not both. Mixing business with pleasure seldom (i.e. leaves wiggle room for minority cases where it does) works out well.
Its awesome to see she' so focused on improving her skills and recognises how thats impacting her racing.
On Julien's side he's under pressure to deliver results for his sponsors so applying pressure to your partner isn't going to go down well. I'd be interested to see what their individual e-colours are


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

Brad said:


> She was displaying impressive skills through the trees, roots and jumps. Even Jolanda didn't look as smooth so Pauline has made huge strides in her technical riding. Whatever Ravanel has taught her has transformed her riding.


100%. PFP was doing endo turns into the roots! I don’t recall ever seeing her do that before in a race.


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## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Augustus-G said:


> She may be a good rider but her behavior does not impress me in the slightest.


Thank God, i thought i was the only one!


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

/delete


----------



## cycloholic (Dec 27, 2015)

Augustus-G said:


> You don't see Laura Stigger or any of the other young riders acting in that fashion when they have a bad day. I don't accept her age as an excuse.
> The way she treated Manny was rude and uncalled for.


Exactly!!


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

cycloholic said:


> Exactly!!


She won every single race last year, her ego has gotten the best of her I think. She's said many times how she expects to be the best ever and all that type of talk. Then gets to Elite and does great, but didn't find it such a walk in the park like in her previous class. I'm sure Cannondale didn't exactly tell her she MUST dominate this year or else. Maybe after this year, she'll mature a bit more and realize she needs to mellow out a bit. Easy for me to say, and how cool would it be to be that successful at 20 years old already. Teams want winners, I wonder if her public display of attitude might make a future big team take a pass? No one wants a diva...unless they win LOL.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Divas sell bikes


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Not always.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I haven't heard a single negative thing about Mona from the people who know her or interact with her at races. The Cannondale team puts a huge emphasis on riders personality and their ability to join the family environment that is the Cannondale team. In any team/family in heat of moment people do things they shouldn't, and they just about always patch it up later.

I am really surprised nobody has mentioned the story about the top young rider whose team left the pits in the middle of race last year because he was being such arse. Super well known story on the circuit, but young guys often get a pass for bad behavior because that is how young guys are.


----------



## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> I am really surprised nobody has mentioned the story about the top young rider whose team left the pits in the middle of race last year because he was being such arse. Super well known story on the circuit, but young guys often get a pass for bad behavior because that is how young guys are.


I had no idea, any chance a name or team could be mentioned?


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

It was a he. We know that much LOL


----------



## *OneSpeed* (Oct 18, 2013)

Augustus-G said:


> Her behavior at Leogang and especially the way she treated Manuel Fumic after the race really soured me on her.
> I'll leave it at that.


For those that follow closely, but not that closely, could you provide a link with more details? (honest question)

I'm just curious as I follow the women's field much more closely. (PM is fine if you don't want to blast publicly.)


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

nya said:


> I had no idea, any chance a name or team could be mentioned?


Gotta keep that one close the chest, unfotunately. It is second hand information, which means that I can't be sure it is true.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

So much emphasis placed on a moment and body language we know little about. I like Mona. She’s got personality. No one pus more pressure on her than she


----------



## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I would have to see a lot more evidence to believe that Mona was any kind of diva. That finish line scene at Leogang was a whole lot of nothing.

Looking ahead to this weekend, I originally thought that Mona and Loana might finally get into the showdown I've been hoping for, but now I think Pauline is going to be too hard to beat. Looks like there's rain in the forecast, though, so maybe it's Neff's turn for another win. On the men's side, I'm hoping for Nino so he can beat the record cleanly (without the messiness of revoking a win from Flueckiger). Wouldn't mind Valero taking another win too after his very impressive performances at Snowshoe and World Champs.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

PFP is in form so smart money is on her. Neff seems to be back to her fast start blow 2 lap recovery Race strategy. 
Alan still has an opportunity to take the overalll this weekend but it’s looking to be a huge task as he appears to tuning out of legs right now. Sad mart money is probably on a recovered PIdcock (assuming he’s riding)


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> PFP is in form so smart money is on her. Neff seems to be back to her fast start blow 2 lap recovery Race strategy.
> Alan still has an opportunity to take the overalll this weekend but it’s looking to be a huge task as he appears to tuning out of legs right now. Sad mart money is probably on a recovered PIdcock (assuming he’s riding)


You'd assume he's off to prep for road world's? Not really anything for him chasing the last WC of the season? Just guesswork mind, but I'd think he'd have bigger fish to fry.



Just rewatching the men's race. Incredible descent from Nino on that last lap. He assured himself of victory there.


----------



## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Just rewatching the men's race. Incredible descent from Nino on that last lap. He assured himself of victory there.


It was a good move, very much reminiscent of Nino of past years. While Nino did put a little extra oomph (let's say +5%) into that final descent, to me it also seemed like DVS sat up just slightly (let's say -5%) on the same descent. As strong as DVS is, I believe he was tiring. Once he saw Nino going for it I think DVS doubted that he could safely match Nino's aggression, and the winning gap of a few seconds was formed. In the last few world cup races, DVS has generally been matching Nino on the descents, but in a fatigued state like at the pointy end of a world championship in Les Gets, I think Nino's more natural descending skills were able to surface.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Related to that, I can’t imagine what it was like for Valero in those last laps when he was in front and Schurter was glued to his wheel. That’s got to be nerve-racking.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Valero or Nino don't remember which one also said Valero made a small mistake.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

cassieno said:


> Valero or Nino don't remember which one also said Valero made a small mistake.


A small mistake with Nino on your wheel turns into a big time gap for Nino very quickly.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Related to that, I can’t imagine what it was like for Valero in those last laps when he was in front and Schurter was glued to his wheel. That’s got to be nerve-racking.


Schurter was glued to his wheel and I was glued to the screen! That was intense.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I think that's where Nino shows his age nowadays - prime Nino wouldn't let someone on his tail for lap after lap, he'd be gone. Nino looks ripped though, he clearly has worked hard to get in his absolute best shape this year. So now he has to use his smarts and experience to win at the last minute, on the last lap, sometimes the last corner. Which is great until someone takes him down. He has to play things just right now to win, and that's how he's doing it. I normally don't root for him, but I kind of had to this time. He rode a perfect race.


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## meschenbruch (Jan 15, 2017)

cassieno said:


> Valero or Nino don't remember which one also said Valero made a small mistake.


Nino said something in his end of race interview. I don't think we saw it happen on the race feed, I recall David was on Nino's wheel in one shot going into the some woods, the feed goes away from them and then the next shot Nino had his 5 second gap going into the final descent.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

Circlip said:


> It was a good move, very much reminiscent of Nino of past years. While Nino did put a little extra oomph (let's say +5%) into that final descent, to me it also seemed like DVS sat up just slightly (let's say -5%) on the same descent. As strong as DVS is, I believe he was tiring. Once he saw Nino going for it I think DVS doubted that he could safely match Nino's aggression, and the winning gap of a few seconds was formed. In the last few world cup races, DVS has generally been matching Nino on the descents, but in a fatigued state like at the pointy end of a world championship in Les Gets, I think Nino's more natural descending skills were able to surface.


As I watched I felt that a difference in their power profiles was at play.

It seemed like Valero had better 1 minute power as he could close gaps down and then hold Nino’s wheel. However, when he went to pass, it seemed as though Nino had higher 5-10 second power and Valero couldn’t het around him.

It’s possible Nino just had better power overall, but he’s an aggressive racer and I think he would have ridden Valero off his wheel sooner if he could.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

mail_liam said:


> You'd assume he's off to prep for road world's? Not really anything for him chasing the last WC of the season? Just guesswork mind, but I'd think he'd have bigger fish to fry.


Based on his Strava posts as recently as yesterday morning, Pidcock was still in Morzine, where he's been since before Worlds. I'm not sure what this indicates, but maybe staying in that part of the world means he will show up for Val di Sole.

EDIT: Nevermind. He's scheduled to ride the Tour of Britain starting on Sunday.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

meschenbruch said:


> Nino said something in his end of race interview. I don't think we saw it happen on the race feed, I recall David was on Nino's wheel in one shot going into the some woods, the feed goes away from them and then the next shot Nino had his 5 second gap going into the final descent.


I just watched the critical moments on the replay to see if it matched my recollection. There were several lead changes packed into race time 1:17:00 - 1:18:20. It was excellent stuff. Nino and DVS were really going mano e mano. Then if you watch right around 1:18:25 Nino buries a couple of pedal strokes in between some of the rock features, while DVS (perhaps a bit fatigued from all the surges as I suggested before) eases back just a smidge. Suddenly the gap was there. Distance-wise, it looked like a much bigger gap once they exited the woods because they were on a high-speed open descent and that's why the commentators might have speculated about a mistake from DVS, or why Nino might have thought it was a bobble. From my review of the above, though I'm still going with no mistakes. Just Nino putting in a great dig at the right time, and DVS kind of throwing in the towel ever so slightly.



brentos said:


> As I watched I felt that a difference in their power profiles was at play.
> 
> It seemed like Valero had better 1 minute power as he could close gaps down and then hold Nino’s wheel. However, when he went to pass, it seemed as though Nino had higher 5-10 second power and Valero couldn’t het around him.
> 
> It’s possible Nino just had better power overall, but he’s an aggressive racer and I think he would have ridden Valero off his wheel sooner if he could.


Good observation. I think that fits with my narrative above quite closely.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Circlip said:


> I just watched the critical moments on the replay to see if it matched my recollection. There were several lead changes packed into race time 1:17:00 - 1:18:20. It was excellent stuff. Nino and DVS were really going mano e mano. Then if you watch right around 1:18:25 Nino buries a couple of pedal strokes in between some of the rock features, while DVS (perhaps a bit fatigued from all the surges as I suggested before) eases back just a smidge. Suddenly the gap was there. Distance-wise, it looked like a much bigger gap once they exited the woods because they were on a high-speed open descent and that's why the commentators might have speculated about a mistake from DVS, or why Nino might have thought it was a bobble. From my review of the above, though I'm still going with no mistakes. Just Nino putting in a great dig at the right time, and DVS kind of throwing in the towel ever so slightly.
> 
> 
> 
> Good observation. I think that fits with my narrative above quite closely.


Nino descended the last descent at what looked like twice the speed. A large part of that could be as you say, DVS conceded at that point.

Great rides from both.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

meschenbruch said:


> Nino said something in his end of race interview. I don't think we saw it happen on the race feed, I recall David was on Nino's wheel in one shot going into the some woods, the feed goes away from them and then the next shot Nino had his 5 second gap going into the final descent.


Actually, you can see the mistake in the race feed. The second I saw it, I called the race to my wife. It's that forest section where there seems to be about 5 different lines through the rocks and trees. You can see DVS get hung up just as they're about to leave that shot, and you can see Nino build a really quick few second lead which was devastating at that point of the race.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Gerhard Kerschbaumer retiring from XCO racing. Could he try XCM? He did place third in a race in Italy recently.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

From his IG post it rather seemed to racing at all, not focusing to XCM


Is Nino gonna break the record this weekend?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

carlostruco said:


> Gerhard Kerschbaumer retiring from XCO racing. Could he try XCM? He did place third in a race in Italy recently.


So there's probably space for a new rider next year.......


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

mail_liam said:


> Nino descended the last descent at what looked like twice the speed. A large part of that could be as you say, DVS conceded at that point.
> 
> Great rides from both.


Agree, and it's not at all unheard of for men to slightly concede to Nino (knowingly or otherwise). I think that's what happened to Maxime Marotte in Petropolis. From my view, he stopped pedaling too soon and let Nino cross the line first.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

Great battle in the women's XCC from Val di Sole!


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

brentos said:


> As I watched I felt that a difference in their power profiles was at play.
> 
> It seemed like Valero had better 1 minute power as he could close gaps down and then hold Nino’s wheel. However, when he went to pass, it seemed as though Nino had higher 5-10 second power and Valero couldn’t het around him.
> 
> It’s possible Nino just had better power overall, but he’s an aggressive racer and I think he would have ridden Valero off his wheel sooner if he could.


1 min and 10 second power profile are meaningless at the end of a XC race. The person who is going to win the finish "sprint" is the person with the best aerobic system. Nino won because he had accumulated the least systemic aerobic fatigue in the previous 60 minutes of the race and therefore was able to "sprint" better than his competitor. In my opinion, a XC race is basically a test of who can accumulate the least amount of lactate at the lead pack velocity. Some athletes will always have better finishing sprint than others (MvDP vs anyone else for example) but if you are fit enough to burn of someones legs, you are going to take out their sprint. 

I would bet good money that Valero would beat Nino 10/10 times in a heads up unfatigued finishing sprint.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Men's XCC...wow Alan and Titouan!!!


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Probably fastest XCC ever, flat out from start


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

carlostruco said:


> Men's XCC...wow Alan and Titouan!!!


Ridiculous pace from start to finish! Great race.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Felt a little bad for Hatherly after he nearly out-Schwarzbauered Schwarzbauer's incredible Nove Mesto XCC win, but he wanted the overall so both his tactic and execution were right on the mark for achieving that. Carod took advantage of those dynamics to perfection. Nicely done by both.

The last minute of PFP vs. Lecomte was amazing. I'm not sure I've seen two riders send it so tightly bar to bar for both the final turns and sprint like that. PFP is pretty savvy with sprint finishes, and is in great form these days too, needless to say. Big kudos to Lecomte for making it as close as it was and providing us with some good entertainment.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Circlip said:


> The last minute of PFP vs. Lecomte was amazing. I'm not sure I've seen two riders send it so tightly bar to bar for both the final turns and sprint like that.


The whole last lap was flat out racing. There were only 5 or 6 laps total by all riders 2:33 or under and they did 2:09 & 2:10 on the last lap. Impressive.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Exmuhle said:


> So there's probably space for a new rider next year.......


If they intend on maintaining the 3M & 3F composition of the team they will.
Should be interesting to how this shakes out and something to remember when the Team Swapping Silly Season comes around.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Watched the DH tonight. For years the voice of Bob Varsha was synonymous with Formula 1. In my opinion, Rob Warner will be forever the voice of UCI Mountain Biking. It will be a mixture of delight and sadness tomorrow night when I listen to him call his last races in UCI XCO.

Thanks Rob for the memories....


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I watched the downhill too - the last 10 minutes of the men's broadcast (all the way at the end) had a great montage of all the greatest moments in downhill history (since Red Bull has been commentating) and all with Rob's voice just screaming out the results. I'm going to miss him so much!

As for the XCO tomorrow, I was hoping Terpstra would wrap up her first overall win, but she's been sick with a "parotid gland infection" (ouch??) and I'm not sure if she can pull it off. I know Mona is hungry for it - the course suits her and if she pulls off the overall win, she'll beat Jolanda's record as the youngest winner of the overall ever (at least for women's - not 100% sure if anyone ever did it younger on the men's side). Should be a great race, whatever happens, and I'm still rooting for Nino in the men's race.


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## donR (11 mo ago)

I watched a bit of the woman's downhill. Really bumpy track! What is happening Rob Warner? XCO is on at a decent hour for us tonight so looking forward to it.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

donR said:


> I watched a bit of the woman's downhill. Really bumpy track! What is happening Rob Warner? XCO is on at a decent hour for us tonight so looking forward to it.


Redbull is not going to be covering XC or DH anymore and Rob is still contracted to Redbull.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Just watching the last of the DH too. Rob mentioned Redbull MTB being back next year bigger than ever. Does he just mean Rampage etc?

I will also greatly miss his energy in the commentary booth. He's been synonymous with mountain biking coverage the entire time I've had the ability to consume any "how does he sit down with balls so big..." 🤣


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## donR (11 mo ago)

NordieBoy said:


> Redbull is not going to be covering XC or DH anymore and Rob is still contracted to Redbull.


Wow, that seems crazy given all the cyclists that appear to be sponsored by them. I assume that will go as well?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

donR said:


> Wow, that seems crazy given all the cyclists that appear to be sponsored by them. I assume that will go as well?


Red Bull sponsor lots of athletes that they don't show on their channels; it's not an issue.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

VDS is definitely a 120mm bike course. Super rough.
Savilia lying 6th. Was 3rd for the whole first lap.
Haley taken over 3rd now on lap2


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Brad said:


> VDS is definitely a 120mm bike course. Super rough.





Brad said:


> VDS is definitely a 120mm bike course. Super rough.


Does not look like a "fun" course...tough day for sure! (PS: I hate rocks...I would have sat out for the the day )


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> Just watching the last of the DH too. Rob mentioned Redbull MTB being back next year bigger than ever. Does he just mean Rampage etc?
> 
> I will also greatly miss his energy in the commentary booth. He's been synonymous with mountain biking coverage the entire time I've had the ability to consume any "how does he sit down with balls so big..." 🤣


Well they cover lots of other MTB; Crankworx, Hardline, Urban DHI, etc Who knows what they've got planned?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Well they cover lots of other MTB; Crankworx, Hardline, Urban DHI, etc Who knows what they've got planned?


So they only cover ones where you don't have to pedal...


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Pauline Ferrand Prevot is in superb shape. Two straight perfect weekends. She looks absolutely skeletal, though. With all of the messaging about eating disorders, proper fueling, not trying to be too light---it's confusing. Because clearly she is climbing like a mountain goat at the moment. On the other hand, Allesandra Keller took both the XCC and XCO overall titles, and she is built much more powerfully, so I guess there's room for different body types/compositions-especially in the overall competition. In the grand scheme of things, if the courses are laid out with long, non-technical steep climbs and fairly benign descents, there will be lots of pressure for riders to be as light as possible. But if the courses have shorter, more technical climbs and technical descents, you will favor a more balanced set of skills and a more balanced power (power to weight) profile.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

paramount3 said:


> Pauline Ferrand Prevot is in superb shape. Two straight perfect weekends. She looks absolutely skeletal, though. With all of the messaging about eating disorders, proper fueling, not trying to be too light---it's confusing. Because clearly she is climbing like a mountain goat at the moment. On the other hand, Allesandra Keller took both the XCC and XCO overall titles, and she is built much more powerfully, so I guess there's room for different body types/compositions-especially in the overall competition. In the grand scheme of things, if the courses are laid out with long, non-technical steep climbs and fairly benign descents, there will be lots of pressure for riders to be as light as possible. But if the courses have shorter, more technical climbs and technical descents, you will favor a more balanced set of skills and a more balanced power (power to weight) profile.


Pauline executed a perfect peak this year. And that includes getting peak body comp at right time.

The modern idea of a peak is to have a time where your power output it at its highest and your weight is at its least. Usually that time window is pretty small, a couple of weeks or maybe a month. When riders nail it they are really fast (even if they didn't intend to nail it at that moment). For example, Pauline right now, Bec this spring, Loana last spring, Kate in 2019. On the mens side you will see similar things, periods of time where a rider is just really fast, Carod right now for example. The challenge is to not get greedy and extend it too long. When a rider is really lean it is only a matter of time before they start to lose power, and for women more than men when that power goes it is really hard to get it back. 

It is one of those things that serperates someone who can win an overall and someone who can win a big one-day event. Obviously there are riders who can do both, but there are a few riders who can only be amazing for one period of time per year. Those riders win World Championships, Olympic medals but not WC overalls.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Pauline also said she is targeting the XCM title and a Gravel title this year...both races coming up soon. She, and her coaches, timed her peak to perfection.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Another thought, both World Champions, Nino and Pauline, raced Cape Epic at the beginning of this year. Good base training?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Stonerider said:


> Another thought, both World Champions, Nino and Pauline, raced Cape Epic at the beginning of this year. Good base training?


Cape Epic was a long time ago, I suspect any training effect from it is long gone. One of my favorite phrases: "correlation does not imply causation."

My experience is stage races can give a wicked boost in form, but usually in the weeks that follow not the months that follow.


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

LMN said:


> Pauline executed a perfect peak this year. And that includes getting peak body comp at right time.
> 
> The modern idea of a peak is to have a time where your power output it at its highest and your weight is at its least. Usually that time window is pretty small, a couple of weeks or maybe a month. When riders nail it they are really fast (even if they didn't intend to nail it at that moment). For example, Pauline right now, Bec this spring, Loana last spring, Kate in 2019. On the mens side you will see similar things, periods of time where a rider is just really fast, Carod right now for example. The challenge is to not get greedy and extend it too long. When a rider is really lean it is only a matter of time before they start to lose power, and for women more than men when that power goes it is really hard to get it back.
> 
> It is one of those things that serperates someone who can win an overall and someone who can win a big one-day event. Obviously there are riders who can do both, but there are a few riders who can only be amazing for one period of time per year. Those riders win World Championships, Olympic medals but not WC overalls.


And then someone special comes along like Nino who at one point peaked for an entire season or so it seemed. And again this year being super consistent and pulling out another World Championship. I was happy to see Nino get another title. PFP was amazing too even though if I have not always been a fan. On another note a huge thank you to RedBull. Their coverage over the years has been amazing and both Rob and Bart have done a superb job. I will miss them. Heck I even support their product as a thank you for years of streaming coverage and their support for MTB racing in general. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Women have to be far more careful than men when it comes to "timing the peak" and reaching lower weights. Evie Richards and PFP herself (among others) have all discussed the prevalence of disordered eating among female cyclists and the potential negative impact on long-term health (not to mention performance). Women who stay too thin for too long will see loss of their periods, loss of bone density, fatigue, and other negative effects, all increasing the risk of bad seasons and injuries. Look at a cyclist like Nino - a huge part of the reason for his success is his long-term run of no injuries and no absences from races. Female cyclists who get too thin will never have runs like that because they are doing too much damage to their bodies. I feel immense sympathy for the pressure they are under, especially in the age of social media, and I'm glad to see more women speaking out. I also hope to see more technical courses that reward all-around skill rather than the ability to fly up long, boring hills.

ETA: This was a great (recent) read about Evie Richards' struggle and how she overcame years of disordered eating: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ev...al-and-mental-toll-of-becoming-a-pro-cyclist/


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## donR (11 mo ago)

Good XCO coverage yesterday. Some crazy time gaps. 

Also good to see a new BMC XC bike in the stable. Carod certainly did it justice!









Next-gen BMC Fourstroke XC bike teases SRAM Eagle AXS prototype release date? (UPDATED)


This BMC Fourstroke prototype is giving the Swiss full-suspension XC race bike an overhaul with direct mount SRAM Eagle AXS, coming Oct 5!




bikerumor.com


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

Lol...I was tearing up when they were signing off.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

RS VR6 said:


> Lol...I was tearing up when they were signing off.


Did they mnetion anything, I ddn't watch to the end of broadcst for the Mens race? I know Rob is still under contract with Red Bull but haven't heard what Bart is doing. Not to mention the loss of the Red Bull setup which I thought they did a great job with the broadcasts. I follow motocross and the rights switched frm NBC Sports to Mav TV this year, it was a total disaster. So much so, I quit watching it as it wasn't easily accessible and broadcasting rights apparently changed hands mid season. I hope we don't end up with less is more broadcast model for next year for XCO World Cups with less than stellar announcers as well.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Women have to be far more careful than men when it comes to "timing the peak" and reaching lower weights. Evie Richards and PFP herself (among others) have all discussed the prevalence of disordered eating among female cyclists and the potential negative impact on long-term health (not to mention performance). Women who stay too thin for too long will see loss of their periods, loss of bone density, fatigue, and other negative effects, all increasing the risk of bad seasons and injuries. Look at a cyclist like Nino - a huge part of the reason for his success is his long-term run of no injuries and no absences from races. Female cyclists who get too thin will never have runs like that because they are doing too much damage to their bodies. I feel immense sympathy for the pressure they are under, especially in the age of social media, and I'm glad to see more women speaking out. I also hope to see more technical courses that reward all-around skill rather than the ability to fly up long, boring hills.
> 
> ETA: This was a great (recent) read about Evie Richards' struggle and how she overcame years of disordered eating: https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ev...al-and-mental-toll-of-becoming-a-pro-cyclist/


I actually think the impact of being too lean is a lot worse for men than what is commonly thought. Bike racing is full of guys who had a time and period where they were really fast and then they just become pack-fill for life. I think REDS (Relative Energy Deficieny in Sport) plays a signficant role in this.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Stay for the memories at the end of the Men's XCO race. So much emotion. But Rob smacking a fly off Bart's head live on TV was worth the whole 10 years!!! 

Thank you RedBull TV for amazing coverage. End of an era.


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## RS VR6 (Mar 29, 2007)

BoyinBlue said:


> Did they mnetion anything, I ddn't watch to the end of broadcst for the Mens race? I know Rob is still under contract with Red Bull but haven't heard what Bart is doing. Not to mention the loss of the Red Bull setup which I thought they did a great job with the broadcasts. I follow motocross and the rights switched frm NBC Sports to Mav TV this year, it was a total disaster. So much so, I quit watching it as it wasn't easily accessible and broadcasting rights apparently changed hands mid season. I hope we don't end up with less is more broadcast model for next year for XCO World Cups with less than stellar announcers as well.


I think its going to Discovery. XC, DH, and the EWS is supposed to be under Discovery.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

While they've announced the calendars for next year, I hope they're not too long in making more announcements. 

As for PFP, when you're in great form, you may as well make use of it. Marathon & gravel Worlds....interesting to see what happens.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> Another thought, both World Champions, Nino and Pauline, raced Cape Epic at the beginning of this year. Good base training?


For Petropolis it was good training , after that not so much.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

Stoked to see Evie have a good race. Hopefully, she's all sorted out for next year (and maybe some cross?).

For people who've been around this level (LMN/Brad): what do make of Bec's season and what would you do? Obviously, it was a GREAT season for her...but also: a disappointing season. 

How does someone at that level cope with or compartmentalize two wildly different sections of the season. I saw her interview at the end and she puts on a brave face, but it appeared (to me) that she was really struggling to figure out what what happened and what to do to fix it.

Finally: what a great season and am sad to see Bart and Rob go.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

smartyiak said:


> Stoked to see Evie have a good race. Hopefully, she's all sorted out for next year (and maybe some cross?).
> 
> Finally: what a great season and am sad to see Bart and Rob go.


Well she is named on the TFR team on the list of registered teams for the UCI CX season, so we may well see her, along with Jolanda & Hattie. Would be nice to see a few more have a go, but understandable if they don't. Both Bohe & Keller are national CX champions.
And the top two U23 riders, Burquier & Pieterse are already Elite level CX riders.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

smartyiak said:


> Stoked to see Evie have a good race. Hopefully, she's all sorted out for next year (and maybe some cross?).
> 
> For people who've been around this level (LMN/Brad): what do make of Bec's season and what would you do? Obviously, it was a GREAT season for her...but also: a disappointing season.
> 
> ...


It’s really hard to comment on Rebecca’s season in isolation of a control rider. Intuits case the control would be rider of extreme consistency over the past two seasons.
Also I don’t know how her power profile changed from 2021 into 2022 and toward the end. Too many unknowns. Some can be filled in with guesswork.
Did she come into the season closer to her peak than other riders with a view to peaking twice? At the start and end of the season while others opted for slow build to a single peak at the end?

Did she have other hiccups in the middle of the season during the breaks? Travel fatigue? Covid?
Did she lose too much weight too fast in the off season and paid the price through drop in peak power?
I know far too little about her relative to her peers to comment effectively.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> It’s really hard to comment on Rebecca’s season in isolation of a control rider. Intuits case the control would be rider of extreme consistency over the past two seasons.
> Also I don’t know how her power profile changed from 2021 into 2022 and toward the end. Too many unknowns. Some can be filled in with guesswork.
> Did she come into the season closer to her peak than other riders with a view to peaking twice? At the start and end of the season while others opted for slow build to a single peak at the end?
> 
> ...


I'm sure that flatting twice in one race where she was fairly competitive and then pushing hard to try to get back to the front was not in any training scenario for her season and probably changed the trajectory of her end of season fitness/fatigue. She did have some horrible luck this year.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

A few more things about XCO Finals:

Women;
1. I'm hurting for Terpstra. Bad timing to get sick, but she did have a great season.
2. Kate was doing her best race in years just to loose it to a mechanical. Brad had to change derailleur and chain in maybe a minute.
3. I'm hoping to PFP, LL and Neff provide us more fireworks for seasons to come. Let's throw Evie and Rissveds in there to...
4. Huge gaps yesterday compared to Men's race which was super tight until the last lap. I don't see anyone from the U23 field coming to disrupt the Elite compared to what Mona and others have done.
5. Keller proved she is one of the best. Don't matter body composition or anything. The girl rocks!!!
6. GG and the new girls from North America are on the rise!!!

Men:
1. Avancini went backwards all season. I hope he gets everything together again. He did posted on social media about racing with a heavy head around mid season.
2. Nino is Nino. Period.
3. Great to see Valero and Bradiot come to blows with the young kids. Experience pays off.
4. We should get a resolution on Mat Fluck. Soon.
5. Hatherly and Vlad deserve to win one soon!
6. We saw Titouan take to very dominating wins. Can he replicate that for the next few years?
7. With the proper support, Ulloa could be a threat in every race.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

For next season all of us have to be prepared to be unhappy with the broadcasting. It doesn't matter how much money they throw at it, there will be bugs. The announcers will be different and we will not like that. But hopefully with time and patience we will get a quality product.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

carlostruco said:


> A few more things about XCO Finals:
> 
> Women;
> 1. I'm hurting for Terpstra. Bad timing to get sick, but she did have a great season.
> ...


I agree with every single one of these points. Keller is a deserving winner of both overalls (although I'm so bummed for Terpstra too). One thing I'm wondering - why does it take three months and counting to test a B sample for Flueckiger? It was collected on June 3, FFS...

I forgot to add that I was so touched at Bart said one of his all-time favorite moments was when Yana Belomoina came back to place second after breaking her leg the previous year. I thought that was such a nice gesture to highlight a lesser-known moment given the year Belomoina has had and the suffering her people have gone through.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

roth88 said:


> I agree with every single one of these points. Keller is a deserving winner of both overalls (although I'm so bummed for Terpstra too). One thing I'm wondering - why does it take three months and counting to test a B sample for Flueckiger? It was collected on June 3, FFS...


The B-sample would have been test already.

The time delay is for them to decide what sanctions he should get. If he chooses to, he would be give the time to build a case to show that it was interverent. And if he does show that they would have to decided on what is the appropriate suspension length.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> For next season all of us have to be prepared to be unhappy with the broadcasting. It doesn't matter how much money they throw at it, there will be bugs. The announcers will be different and we will not like that. But hopefully with time and patience we will get a quality product.


Unfortunately, I believe this is spot on. I watch a lot of bicycle racing and motorsports and the bad coverage outweighs the good probably at least 10:1. The most amazing thing about RB's coverage was not that it was excellent, it's that it was excellent and free. I think that's the thing that hurts the most... other than the fact that I've grown quite attached to Rob, Bart and Claudio.... poorer coverage AND have to pay for it. In which case I just won't.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

LMN said:


> I actually think the impact of being too lean is a lot worse for men than what is commonly thought. Bike racing is full of guys who had a time and period where they were really fast and then they just become pack-fill for life. I think REDS (Relative Energy Deficieny in Sport) plays a signficant role in this.


I’m glad you brought up the guys. It still seems like it’s much more common to discuss disordered eating among female endurance athletes than male, even though the prevalence is likely similar. Men don’t have some of the pressure relating to appearance that is put on women, but the performance pressure is the same. Probably especially bad among Grand Tour GC contenders. XCO may not be that bad, but W/kg still matter, and changing either part of that fraction is an improvement. It’s not a coincidence that a lot of banned PEDs help build and retain lean muscle mass at low body fat levels.


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## Ptor (Jan 29, 2004)

Based on this article and Pidcock’s comments it would be surprising to see much of him at XC WCs next year. And seeing how he fared through the end of the TDF (post stage win portion) and his “early” mental burnout this season, I am even more convinced he’ll never be a grand tour GC winner. But if he carries through on his early promise shown in the road classics and as a stage winner in the TDF, he could well have a career that rivals Wout’s and Mathieu’s. Those are the guys that make road cycling worth following. 









Tom Pidcock to sit out road worlds after long multi-discipline season


Pidcock opts out of racing in Wollongong, considers reduced cyclocross calendar to be in top form for classics next spring.




www.velonews.com


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## le_pedal (Jul 10, 2018)

Difficult not to feel a bit emotional at the end of the red bull footage as Bart Rob and the rest of the crew reflected on their 11 years together. Super disappointed to see the operation brought to and end. You really get the sense that Rob legitimately loves all forms of mountain biking and it wasn't just a paycheck for him.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Ptor said:


> Based on this article and Pidcock’s comments it would be surprising to see much of him at XC WCs next year. And seeing how he fared through the end of the TDF (post stage win portion) and his “early” mental burnout this season, I am even more convinced he’ll never be a grand tour GC winner. But if he carries through on his early promise shown in the road classics and as a stage winner in the TDF, he could well have a career that rivals Wout’s and Mathieu’s. Those are the guys that make road cycling worth following.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He should probably just do CX for fitness and to build form for the classics; unless the Worlds are on a course which suits him; which most don't.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I have to wonder if Pidcock thought it would be easy to win XC world's and didn't give it the respect due. Obviously he was sick and could have won on the right day anyway, but if he was serious about winning I'd have thought he'd do at least one more WC to get further up the start list.

In hindsight I wonder if he'd have been better skipping this MTB sojourn to focus on World's. The Australian course would really suit him from what I've read.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

Interesting to see where is Vidaurre landing next year, rumor is Scott-sram or Specialized, i think he may be top10 guy from the 1 race.
Avancini is rumored to change teams, and PFP rumored to sign with Ineos , mixing mtb and road
Forster and Friscknecht are without contract, supposedly Colombo will join Scott-sram
Kross team is closing doors, leaving Cink without a team

So lot of team changes coming offseason


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Alpecin Fenix have strong representation across men's and women's CX, XC, and Road? That might be a good fit.

It'd be a surprise to me if Scott SRAM didn't sign Vidaurre. Whether that means they have to drop a rider ... Though their lower performing dudes are well entrenched in the team.

With regards Cape Epic, I have a theory about how it might change some of the training done over the off season, i.e. the benefits of committing to it may reach further than just the TSS of riding hard for eight days. I'd like to see Anton do Epic or similar and develop a huge aerobic base (I know he already has a huge base, just potentially change of stimulus). Same with a few other riders.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> I'm sure that flatting twice in one race where she was fairly competitive and then pushing hard to try to get back to the front was not in any training scenario for her season and probably changed the trajectory of her end of season fitness/fatigue. She did have some horrible luck this year.


Little hiccups in a race shouldn't have season long consequences at the Elite level. They should really be able to race hard 2 to 3 days consecutively rest for a few days and repeat within a fitness peak.There's something else going with Rebecca. She's fallen below the level she race last year so it really is quite strange. I don't recall if she had any injury or illness that affect her prep. Riding with a viral infection can do longer term damage to form.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> Interesting to see where is Vidaurre landing next year, rumor is Scott-sram or Specialized, i think he may be top10 guy from the 1 race.
> Avancini is rumored to change teams, and PFP rumored to sign with Ineos , mixing mtb and road
> Forster and Friscknecht are without contract, supposedly Colombo will join Scott-sram
> Kross team is closing doors, leaving Cink without a team
> ...


Avancini may be brining his Home grown team to the world cup circuit. Looks like a build to retirement.
Vidaurre, well he's anyones guess.Scott keen to retain him for their brand as they must be wondering when Nino will reach his sell by date as a XCO racer. I'm amazed he's still around at 36. The Scott SRAM team doesn't have a strong line up without him. Lars doesn't seem to be finding any sort of form and Andri, well, He's the boss's son so I'm sure he'll have a ride.
Kerschbaumer is retiring so there's a spot open at Specialized and they will be chasing Vidaurre with all they have I'm sure.

PFP to Ineos? Hmmmm I'm not sure how that's going to fit with how she currently operates but it is a team that afford her so there's that.

Colombo to Scott SRAM is a decent move although I don't know why he'd switch unless its for more money. He's on a good wicket at Absalon with Carod his teamie. At Scott-SRAM he's just going to be in Nino's (huge) shadow.

Cink will find a team. If Avancini oves on he'll go to Cannondale. He and Manie are good mates


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> Avancini may be brining his Home grown team to the world cup circuit. Looks like a build to retirement.
> Vidaurre, well he's anyones guess.Scott keen to retain him for their brand as they must be wondering when Nino will reach his sell by date as a XCO racer. I'm amazed he's still around at 36. The Scott SRAM team doesn't have a strong line up without him. Lars doesn't seem to be finding any sort of form and Andri, well, He's the boss's son so I'm sure he'll have a ride.
> Kerschbaumer is retiring so there's a spot open at Specialized and they will be chasing Vidaurre with all they have I'm sure.
> 
> ...


Ineos are one of the most obvious examples of team's letting the women's side of the sport down. Maybe PFP would be the start of something, but I don't think they have shown interest in building the sport so far.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I’m glad you brought up the guys. It still seems like it’s much more common to discuss disordered eating among female endurance athletes than male, even though the prevalence is likely similar. Men don’t have some of the pressure relating to appearance that is put on women, but the performance pressure is the same. Probably especially bad among Grand Tour GC contenders. XCO may not be that bad, but W/kg still matter, and changing either part of that fraction is an improvement. It’s not a coincidence that a lot of banned PEDs help build and retain lean muscle mass at low body fat levels.


Good doco on GCN+ about the subject.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Here's the link about the rumors said before...









Fichajes 2023. Lo que sabemos


Con la celebración de la última prueba de la Copa del Mundo en Val di Sole se han acabado de disparar y confirmar algunos de los fichajes y cambios important...




www.mountainbike.es





Rumors:
1. Martin Vidaurre to Spesh
2. Colombo to Scott-SRAM
3. PFP to Ineos (Pidcock uses a BMC...)
4. Maxime Marotte to Rockrider (Tempier retired)
5. Kross is out
6. Cink to Primaflor or BH-Templo
7. Lapierre in with KMC (Orbea out)
8. Rockrider courting Neff
9. Avancini out of Cannondale

Like the webiste sasys, this are all rumors, but some of them might be done deals already...


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I would be very surprised if PFP went to Ineos considering how many times she has said that she no longer likes road racing. I would guess on a small team where she can dictate the terms, like a Commencal xc team with Ravanel or something similar.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Skier78 said:


> I would be very surprised if PFP went to Ineos considering how many times she has said that she no longer likes road racing. I would guess on a small team where she can dictate the terms, like a Commencal xc team with Ravanel or something similar.


For the umpteenth time, Ineos has no women's road team.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Anyone know what Vittoria tires Carod was running? They had the horrible new Vittoria logo.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

There seemed to be a large amount of flats this year. Is saving 100 or so grams in a 80-90 min race really worth the risk of flatting and potentially losing minutes?


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## trmn8er (Jun 9, 2011)

FortOrdMTB said:


> There seemed to be a large amount of flats this year. Is saving 100 or so grams in a 80-90 min race really worth the risk of flatting and potentially losing minutes?


Every gram counts at this level. It’s a calculated risk. If you look at how many close races there have been 100 grams per tire in weight and tire feel can make the difference between winning and losing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

uintah said:


> For the umpteenth time, Ineos has no women's road team.


They don't have mtb team either, men or women. Pidcock running mtb races is not really Ineos mtb team


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Reto Indergand (Linda's brother) retiring.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

trmn8er said:


> Every gram counts at this level. It’s a calculated risk. If you look at how many close races there have been 100 grams per tire in weight and tire feel can make the difference between winning and losing.


I think we are at almost 100% extra on tires then we were 10 or 15 years ago. At those times, sub 400g tires were perfectly normal thing, so as several flats per race. With current 600 or 700+g tires, I guess it's pretty clear they finally realized even few 100g extra is less penalty then running half lap on flat... every third lap.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Skier78 said:


> I would be very surprised if PFP went to Ineos considering how many times she has said that she no longer likes road racing. I would guess on a small team where she can dictate the terms, like a Commencal xc team with Ravanel or something similar.


That's a rumour that makes no sense (so will likely happen)

As you say, it was only recently on instagram she mentioned not wanting to be on a road team. And anyway, they don't have a women's team - and have never shown any interest.
She seems to like her current set up, so maybe just a one rider team with funding from current sponsors...


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## jf45 (Nov 23, 2021)

primoz said:


> They don't have mtb team either, men or women. Pidcock running mtb races is not really Ineos mtb team


But popping up at the start line of a WC XCO race being a one-man team is completely feasible.. standing on the start line of a 1.WWT road race is a no-go when the team just consist of a "me, myself & I" squad..

And honestly - seeing Ineos paying for a MTB only rider seems highly unlikely. We get to see Tom on the MTB, not cause Ineos (or Pinerallo... ) really wants/benefits from the exposure of him racing XC.. but as a "perk" to Tom for being Tom (and keep him happy and still on the team..). And even that only when it fits with their plans on the road.. 🤷‍♂️

The only fit with Ineos is that they have sufficiently deep pockets..

My bet would be that we're going to see PFP on her own team (perhaps with a young up-and-coming French Junior/U23 girl mentee..) next year backed primarily by BMC or Giant/Liv.


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Totally agree. That's why I wrote that they don't have mtb team either. I really doubt they are interested in mtb, even less women mtb, regardless of rider involved. They just have to go with it, as obviously Pidcock likes to race mtb, and I guess he means enough for them, to let him do that, and as I think there's no chance to have 2 licenses (Ineos for road, whatever other team for mtb), Pidcock races in Ineos jersey, but support from Ineos for that is pretty minimal, especially considering support for road team. So I honestly doubt they would be interested in signing PFP.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Pinarello is developing a MTB for Pidcock and Pauline Ferrand-Prevot


Pinarello, the main equipment sponsor of INEOS Grenadier, still does not have a mountain bike for their star riders.




en.brujulabike.com





With regard to Ineos, this brujulabike article from May reported that Pinarello is trying to have a mountain bike ready for the 2023 season, so if PFP wants to stay with BMC, Ineos may not be the place to go. 
On the other hand, the article also quotes Fausto Pinarello himself repeating rumors that Ineos especially wants to expand in MTB with a women’s team. They’ve got the money to make a splash with a marquee name like Ferrand Prevot, though their generally British bias would make me think they’d make a run at Richards first.


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## BoyinBlue (8 mo ago)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Pinarello is developing a MTB for Pidcock and Pauline Ferrand-Prevot
> 
> 
> Pinarello, the main equipment sponsor of INEOS Grenadier, still does not have a mountain bike for their star riders.
> ...


PFP ran the old four stroke the last two weekends. Colombo and Carrod were running what is supposed to be the new frame both weekends. This possibly could be due to size avaialbility but if PFP was a priority to BMC one would think she'd have the new bike. Instead I suspect it's well known to her current team that she's leaving so they didn't bother to have BMC rush the new frame to her.[/QUOTE]


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Inos to mountain bike is an interesting rumour. Sort of makes sense.

You can run a good WC team with 3-riders with 3-staff. Probably cost about million in total for salaries, and expenses per season. That is probably the average salary of rider on Inos. Good return for your $$


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

primoz said:


> I think we are at almost 100% extra on tires then we were 10 or 15 years ago. At those times, sub 400g tires were perfectly normal thing, so as several flats per race. With current 600 or 700+g tires, I guess it's pretty clear they finally realized even few 100g extra is less penalty then running half lap on flat... every third lap.


Way back in 2008 the Luna team had as team policy UST tires only. They were rolling around on 600gram tires when everyone was else was on 400gram tires. At the time I thought it was a massive disadvantage, I was wrong.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

BoyinBlue said:


> PFP ran the old four stroke the last two weekends. Colombo and Carrod were running what is supposed to be the new frame both weekends. This possibly could be due to size avaialbility but if PFP was a priority to BMC one would think she'd have the new bike. Instead I suspect it's well known to her current team that she's leaving so they didn't bother to have BMC rush the new frame to her.


[/QUOTE]

That seems like a mistake on their part given how much she has won over the last two weeks. Although, it's possible she didn't want to figure out a new bike.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Alpecin-Deceuninck are the only top team that are UCI registered for Road, MTB & CX...though Trinity are also registered, but at a lower level on the road as they're a development team.

However unlikely it seems about a PFP/ Ineos MTB link up, it's certainly something to keep an eye on over the next few months.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

Cecile Ravanel with a prototype xc bike from Commencal with PFPs name sticker on it 😉

__
http://instagr.am/p/CiHq6qVKD8i/


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I love that CR has a normal looking shorts and t shirt on. That’s interesting though. Might mean something after all.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

I agree with the other posters that RED-S is a big issue for men too. The issue is that it's been a known problem for female cyclists for many years (used to be known as the female athlete triad), but there hasn't been that much movement on addressing it. As long as teams and sponsors and families turn a blind eye to female athletes losing their periods (or male athletes becoming scarily skinny and fatigued), nothing will change.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Skier78 said:


> Cecile Ravanel with a prototype xc bike from Commencal with PFPs name sticker on it 😉
> 
> __
> http://instagr.am/p/CiHq6qVKD8i/


It would be very cool if PFP continued her partnership with Ravanel. It was clearly successful and I know PFP found a lot of positivity in working with her and with Vali Hoell.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

While we're talking women's teams - Sina Frei rode with SD Worx at Tour of Scandinavia this year. Is there any word on whether she plans to shift to more road racing next year? or any other Spec Factory Team athletes doing road races with SD Worx? It's an interesting partnership between two strong teams.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

roth88 said:


> It would be very cool if PFP continued her partnership with Ravanel. It was clearly successful and I know PFP found a lot of positivity in working with her and with Vali Hoell.





AndrewHardtail said:


> While we're talking women's teams - Sina Frei rode with SD Worx at Tour of Scandinavia this year. Is there any word on whether she plans to shift to more road racing next year? or any other Spec Factory Team athletes doing road races with SD Worx? It's an interesting partnership between two strong teams.


speaking of PFP and commencal, she’d need a road bike sponsor too as she does a bunch of road training. I can totally see her start anew with them though. None of the big players have room for her? Canyon has their star, trek is set, I can’t see her on Spec at all. I think the French thing makes more and more sense now.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I think that Ravanels Commencal is a one off just so she can do the track training with PFP. Not sure if Commencal are able to produce a frame under 3.5 kg...


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Canyon has their star, trek is set,


Trek is either increasing in size by one rider, or someone is leaving. I have no clue what their current rider's contract situations are.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I follow road racing also, and due to Pidcock's adn MvDP exploits and success, some teams have expressed interest to invest n MTB or multi-discipline riders. Given the right circumstances, wins might happen, but exposure casts a wider net. PFP to Ineos will be a great idea if she doesn't race on road and Pinarello finally has a bike. FDJ, Bike Exchange and Israel-Premier Tech bike sponsors could benefit more from World Cup exposure.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

More rumors and mostly done deals...Sarrou back to BMC, Sina Frei to a new team and Martin Vidaurre to Specialized.









Rumores 2023: Martín Vidaurre entra a Specialized y Jordan Sarrou y Sina Frei salen


Martin Vidaurre con Specialized Factory Racing es el rumor más "viejo" de este 2022. Y parece que ya confirmado. La salida de Sarrou para volver a pilotar una BMC estaría también cerrada.




esmtb.com


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> ...Israel-Premier Tech bike sponsors...


PFP on the new Factor. Could be a win/win...she gets a "team" by herself, Factor gets lots of exposure winning...w/o investing in an entire "team." I like it!


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

If a Avancini leaves cannondale there is a spot open there for PFP….


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I just can't see PFP going to ANY mutliple person established team. She seems like she has her crew and support people, and that's all she needs or wants. I can't wait to see who it is though. I can so see her on some new Commencal XC team though, that would be cool.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Pauline has written before that it's VERY important for her to retain her own freedom in training and preparing for races. I doubt she'd go to a highly structured team with lots of obligations.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

I hope she doesn't go to Cannondale because I can't stand the looks of that lefty fork.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> Trek is either increasing in size by one rider, or someone is leaving. I have no clue what their current rider's contract situations are.


But you do know who signed for them. Good pick for trek I must say.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.... I know. DH in an XCO thread. But this was well worth the watch and was as much a tribute to Rob as anything else.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

DH. Psssshhh. Clothes aren't tight enough. (yet.)


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

Skier78 said:


> I think that Ravanels Commencal is a one off just so she can do the track training with PFP. Not sure if Commencal are able to produce a frame under 3.5 kg...


I agree, they are anti Carbon as well


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> I hope she doesn't go to Cannondale because I can't stand the looks of that lefty fork.


I saw they were having a big sale recently. “All Cannondale forks half off.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

I wonder if Scott-SRAM are in the market for another female rider. 

I imagine some of the US women may have the option to upgrade to a bigger outfit after their successful seasons.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## donR (11 mo ago)

I agree, the Scott-SRAM presence in the female line up seems to be a little lacking at the moment. I had hoped Kate Courtney was making a good come back and she did get some very good placings but doesn't seem to be able to get back to her best. As you say there are a few other US women who are performing well and could be in the line up.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

donR said:


> I agree, the Scott-SRAM presence in the female line up seems to be a little lacking at the moment. I had hoped Kate Courtney was making a good come back and she did get some very good placings but doesn't seem to be able to get back to her best. As you say there are a few other US women who are performing well and could be in the line up.


I think Kate is on her way back. She was a mechanical away from a podium on Sunday and made the podium on Friday. Dropped way back and clawed her way up to 13th again by the finish. She was well ahead of the Keller/Frei/Berta group when her RD died on lap 4, IIRC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Commencal used to make an XC bike way back in the first decade of this century. When everything switched to carbon they canned the XC bike and focussed on trail. If anyone will focus on a light weight alloy XC bike it will be Max and his team. I’d get excited over that as their bike are reasonably priced and high performance thanks to their focus on slot construction.
Lefty jokes…come on doesn’t anyone have a new one LOL 

Looks like there’s a big game of musical chairs for 2023


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> Commencal used to make an XC bike way back in the first decade of this century. When everything switched to carbon they canned the XC bike and focussed on trail. If anyone will focus on a light weight alloy XC bike it will be Max and his team. I’d get excited over that as their bike are reasonably priced and high performance thanks to their focus on slot construction.
> Lefty jokes…come on doesn’t anyone have a new one LOL
> 
> Looks like there’s a big game of musical chairs for 2023


High end aluminium would be appealing. I know it's trivial really in this game of consumerism but I have found myself thinking about aluminium vs carbon etc as a frame material since I think James Huang brought it up on a Pod.

I also cringe every time I run my carbon frame too close to ... anything.


I always wanted a Cannondale with Lefty, I have never seen the 120mm version though it seems like such a cool bike. All the proprietary stuff would potentially be tiring.


I'd be much more excited about PFP joining/creating a Commencal XC team than a team that just carries a name. 

Savilla Blunk rides for the Scott US team doesn't she. May be a cheaper add than some of the other options for Scott-SRAM.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

I wonder if there is an opportunity for Red Bull to cover/sponsor North American XC and gravel racing? There's a strong core of young riders in both disciplines, with a fair bit of crossover between the disciplines. Maybe throw in NA CX as well.


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## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

cassieno said:


> DH. Psssshhh. Clothes aren't tight enough. (yet.)


I mean when you are talking hundredths of a second it matters… way more than xc which is slower mph. Look at downhill skiing. One day they’ll be in speed suits. If the prize money is big enough I guess.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

FortOrdMTB said:


> I mean when you are talking hundredths of a second it matters… way more than xc which is slower mph. Look at downhill skiing. *One day they’ll be in speed suits*. If the prize money is big enough I guess.


What's old is new. Some history at the link below.

UCI Lifts Ban on Skin Suits for Downhill.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> Savilla Blunk rides for the Scott US team doesn't she. May be a cheaper add than some of the other options for Scott-SRAM.


She rides for Orange Seal Off Road Racing. They do ride Scott bikes. They had a strange, mixed discipline focus this year with the Lifetime Series being center. I believe she is still under contract for 23. (would think that could easily be broken for a factory team ride though) Hopefully she finds a way to get to more WC races. Their budget can not be very big.


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The more riders the US has going to World Cups, the more points we score and there's a higher resultant likelihood that we get three slots for the 2024 Olympics for the women.

At this point it's basically a three horse race between the US, Switzerland and France for the two, three rider teams.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

paramount3 said:


> I wonder if there is an opportunity for Red Bull to cover/sponsor North American XC and gravel racing?


Rob said quite clearly, on two different broadcasts that I heard, that they had lost their contract for UCI XC/DH but would be back next year (and the one time "bigger than ever"), which makes me curious what RB is getting into next.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

_Z foxy loo _


Le Duke said:


> The more riders the US has going to World Cups, the more points we score and there's a higher resultant likelihood that we get three slots for the 2024 Olympics for the women.
> 
> At this point it's basically a three horse race between the US, Switzerland and France for the two, three rider teams.


I might be wrong on this, but I believe there are no more three rider teams. Two spots only for top 8 ranked nations.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

More rumors...

GG to Trek...is Neff out? Anton Copper did said goodbye to those leaving on a Insta post...

Norco closing shop...









Rumores 2023: Gwendalyn Gibson al Trek Factory Racing y la posible desaparición del equipo Norco


Gwendalyn Gibson ha explotado en este 2022 de una forma que pocos podían esperar. Ganar una Copa del Mundo de Short Track y estar en el top-10 de varias pruebas de XCO está al alcance de pocas corredoras y la estadounidense tiene solo 23 años




esmtb.com


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

LMN said:


> I might be wrong on this, but I believe there are no more three rider teams. Two spots only for top 8 ranked nations.


That is what this site says. Top 8 countries will all get 2, next 10 will get 1:


https://olympics.com/en/news/paris-2024-mountain-bike-qualification-system


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

LMN said:


> _Z foxy loo _
> 
> I might be wrong on this, but I believe there are no more three rider teams. Two spots only for top 8 ranked nations.


Ouch. You could be a top 3 rider in the world (see: Swiss Olympic team last year) and not make the cut.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Mat Flück finally communicated in a press release. He denies any doping and the B sample hasn't been tested yet.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

And an interesting interview of Nino Schurter (in German, a free account is needed to access the article).

Regarding the next steps of his career:

He wants to continue to ride as long as he enjoys it, and he doesn't believe he'll enjoy it when he won't be able to ride in the front any more. In particular if the results are not good next year, he is not necessarily going to push until 2024 for the Olympics game.
After retiring from the World Cup, he may very well continue a couple of years, riding the Cape-Epic and trying to become XCM world champion.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Le Duke said:


> Ouch. You could be a top 3 rider in the world (see: Swiss Olympic team last year) and not make the cut.


Happened unfortunately to Ralph Näf in 2008 even with 3 spots. He won bronze at the world championships, and was not selected for the Olympics behind Sauser (World Champion), Vogel (vice World Champion), and Nino (World Champion U23)...

I remember being mad about it, wondering why they would select a "nobody" (I had never heard of Schurter before) rather than a confirmed rider like Näf 😅


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

bananajoe said:


> And an interesting interview of Nino Schurter (in German, a free account is needed to access the article).
> 
> Regarding the next steps of his career:
> 
> ...


Not a Nino fan, but I watched and listened carefully when they interviewed him after the last race. He is quite an emotionally driven person and 2020 and 2021 were very hard for him without/very few fans at most venues. He adores the cheers from his fans and is clearly motivated by that. The other thing he said may not have meant anything to many, but his comment about not feeling pressures from his sponsors anymore, just being to able to show up and ride is hugely telling. That pressure can ruin something that started off being fun, and apparently part of the equation for "fun" for Nino is being competitive, so this makes complete sense.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Le Duke said:


> I think Kate is on her way back. She was a mechanical away from a podium on Sunday and made the podium on Friday. Dropped way back and clawed her way up to 13th again by the finish. She was well ahead of the Keller/Frei/Berta group when her RD died on lap 4, IIRC.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I think Courtney was looking strong as well, but what's going on with her bike this year? She's had mechanicals in race after race this year, including a broken dropper in MSA, flats (I think) at National Championships, and now this drivetrain issue at Val di Sole. There was a hint in a YouTube video once that she didn't like the bike - there was something about "sometimes it's hard to switch bikes on your team, especially when you're not ready for it" and talk of how Brad was making custom changes for her. I wonder if the bike is a factor in her relative lack of success this year compared to 2018-2019.

As for Nino, I bet he'll go for gold one more time, but then retire after.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

roth88 said:


> As for Nino, I bet he'll go for gold one more time, but then retire after.


Whenever the table of career accomplishments is displayed comparing Nino and Julien head to head, it's always showing Julien's 2 Olympic golds to Nino's 1. It seems obvious he's now the most accomplished male XC racer ever, holding the top spot for world championships and overall world cup titles and tied (for now) on world cup race wins. I don't think he needs the extra Olympic gold to lock in that legacy, but he's a competitive guy and something tells me he'd like to square up that line item also and hammer home the point.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

carlostruco said:


> More rumors...
> GG to Trek...is Neff out? Anton Copper did said goodbye to those leaving on a Insta post...


I know Neff was doing well when she left Kross...but that was small to BIG...and I just can't picture Trek letting her go; she's kinda good😁. Not just in results, but she's good in interviews, represents the sport well, has a strong social media presence, and is photogenic. I'd think she's a sponsor's dream rider.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

smartyiak said:


> I know Neff was doing well when she left Kross...but that was small to BIG...and I just can't picture Trek letting her go; she's kinda good😁. Not just in results, but she's good in interviews, represents the sport well, has a strong social media presence, and is photogenic. I'd think she's a sponsor's dream rider.


I agree with this. Neff is a very positive person who always speaks about how much she loves biking (plus, she has excellent English skills, which helps when representing an American brand). She's a great brand ambassador in addition to being a cutthroat competitor. I'd pay good money to keep her around...


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I'd be utterly shocked if Neff left Trek. But you never know. There's always more behind the scenes than we know about. G Gibson to Trek, hmm. That's interesting.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Maybe Anton was simply saying goodbye to support staff that is leaving.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Le Duke said:


> Ouch. You could be a top 3 rider in the world (see: Swiss Olympic team last year) and not make the cut.


I wouldn’t be surprised if they had the Swiss in mind when they made that rule change


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> I wouldn’t be surprised if they had the Swiss in mind when they made that rule change


Good point. That's the end of one country filling the entire podium.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathias-flueckiger-claims-innocence-in-doping-case-sample-should-have-been-reported-atypical-not-positive.html



This is interesting. I don't understand the delay in testing the B sample, but it seems like the primary sample wasn't as conclusive as it initially sounded. I think this type of thing should be resolved much more promptly - it's more fair to the cyclist in question and the entire circuit.


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## ccm (Jan 14, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Whenever the table of career accomplishments is displayed comparing Nino and Julien head to head, it's always showing Julien's 2 Olympic golds to Nino's 1. It seems obvious he's now the most accomplished male XC racer ever, holding the top spot for world championships and overall world cup titles and tied (for now) on world cup race wins. I don't think he needs the extra Olympic gold to lock in that legacy, but he's a competitive guy and something tells me he'd like to square up that line item also and hammer home the point.


when you compare number of podium placings, to just top step, how do they compare?


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

One important thing in Flueck's press release, to me at least, the Lab report supposedly concluded "Zeranol is not known as a doping agent and the amount "would have no beneficial effect". Wouldn't that mean they shouldn't bother testing for it, and if they do, make the levels high enough to count? And maybe not put it on the same level as other proven performance enhancers?


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

roth88 said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathias-flueckiger-claims-innocence-in-doping-case-sample-should-have-been-reported-atypical-not-positive.html
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. I don't understand the delay in testing the B sample, but it seems like the primary sample wasn't as conclusive as it initially sounded. I think this type of thing should be resolved much more promptly - it's more fair to the cyclist in question and the entire circuit.


VERY interesting... so a Swiss lab found him "Positive" when the guidelines stated that the low levels found in his Sample A should have been "Abnormal". And labs from a country that may or may not care that Fluck was involved in a controversial finish with the greatest Swiss mountain biker in history, tested him clean. Hmmm.....


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

roth88 said:


> I think Courtney was looking strong as well, but what's going on with her bike this year? She's had mechanicals in race after race this year, including a broken dropper in MSA, flats (I think) at National Championships, and now this drivetrain issue at Val di Sole. There was a hint in a YouTube video once that she didn't like the bike - there was something about "sometimes it's hard to switch bikes on your team, especially when you're not ready for it" and talk of how Brad was making custom changes for her. I wonder if the bike is a factor in her relative lack of success this year compared to 2018-2019.
> 
> As for Nino, I bet he'll go for gold one more time, but then retire after.


I don't think it's the bike. She had dropped off the pace on the previous bike first. Maybe she's struggled to adapt to the new Spark but I find it hard to believe that is the cause of her down period.

I couldn't tell, was the failed derailleur one of the brand new ones?


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)




----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

jrob300 said:


> VERY interesting... so a Swiss lab found him "Positive" when the guidelines stated that the low levels found in his Sample A should have been "Abnormal". And labs from a country that may or may not care that Fluck was involved in a controversial finish with the greatest Swiss mountain biker in history, tested him clean. Hmmm.....


It'll be interesting to see if he is actually "cooperating with the authorities". I don't think that's common and would suggest he genuinely believes he is innocent. 

We wait and see I guess.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

For both Fluck and the sport as a whole, I hope his and his team's statements are factual, but in a situation like this I am always going to side with WADA until proven otherwise. I've heard more post positive test result BS from athletes that I put no weight on what they say.


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Jolanda has already stated how important it is for her to have a stable environment (this interview). I doubt she would change team except if the team is dysfunctional, and doubt that simply a higher offer from another team would convince her. She left a lot of money on the table back then when moving to Kross just so that she can team up with Maja again.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I'd be utterly shocked if Neff left Trek. But you never know. There's always more behind the scenes than we know about. G Gibson to Trek, hmm. That's interesting.


You would think there are only a few teams capable of tempting her with a big money move.


----------



## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

RE: PFP & Commencal it may have already been posted but I just watched the womens replay & before her interview segment they showed a clip of PFP in that corral they all go to at the finish line - she was chatting to a guy in a Commencal t shirt & I thought wonder why she is chatting so much with that guy & not with her support crew?


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

teleken said:


> RE: PFP & Commencal it may have already been posted but I just watched the womens replay & before her interview segment they showed a clip of PFP in that corral they all go to at the finish line - she was chatting to a guy in a Commencal t shirt & I thought wonder why she is chatting so much with that guy & not with her support crew?


The Ravanels (who are working with Commencal) are part of her support crew. She has not been with the regular bmc crew for the entire season.


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## teleken (Jul 22, 2005)

Skier78 said:


> The Ravanels (who are working with Commencal) are part of her support crew. She has not been with the regular bmc crew for the entire season.


Ahh thanks I was thinking maybe they were part of her downhill training crew or something.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

teleken said:


> RE: PFP & Commencal it may have already been posted but I just watched the womens replay & before her interview segment they showed a clip of PFP in that corral they all go to at the finish line - she was chatting to a guy in a Commencal t shirt & I thought wonder why she is chatting so much with that guy & not with her support crew?


Doesn't it ultimately come down to $$$$ though? Commencal would have to either 1) design, develop, and create a CF frame (which I don't think they'll do), 2) create a competitive horst-link AL XC bike (which I don't think they can do), or create a single-pivot flex-stay AL XC bike (ditto). Not to mention, in #2 and #3, creating something no one really wants. Unless it can be converted to a Trail (or 130/120 DC bike) no one is going to buy that...certainly not XC folks.

I'm sure they're happy to watch PFP give hugs and high-fives to a bunch of peeps wearing their T's; I just don't think Commencal will be willing to put that kind of devo $$$ behind something with such huge risks...esp when they already have a great thing going.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I am sure BMC are happy to continue to provide bikes to PFP to get new world champion stripes on even if she is not on a factory team. She just received their new gravel bike that she will race gravel worlds on.


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## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

smartyiak said:


> Commencal would have to either 1) design, develop, and create a CF frame (which I don't think they'll do), 2) create a competitive horst-link AL XC bike (which I don't think they can do), or create a single-pivot flex-stay AL XC bike (ditto).


Would a flex-stay on an AL bike even be possible? Doesn't it rely on the carbon fibre to actually flex? I agree though, seems like an odd fit for Commencal to make an XC bike.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> It'll be interesting to see if he is actually "cooperating with the authorities". I don't think that's common and would suggest he genuinely believes he is innocent.
> 
> We wait and see I guess.


Everyone says the same thing. 
Once the report is published we’ll know more , but for now all I read is PR speak


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mostlyeels said:


> Would a flex-stay on an AL bike even be possible? Doesn't it rely on the carbon fibre to actually flex? I agree though, seems like an odd fit for Commencal to make an XC bike.


Have you flown recently?
Aluminium can be designed to flex quite nicely and still have long fatigue life. The amount of flex in flex stays is very small which limits the strain anyway. It’s all very doable we've just forgotten the virtues of aluminium because carbon has been successfully marketed as the best material. Bicycles are not very complex engineering structure’s. Aluminium is far less carbon intensive and has far superior recycle possibilities.
If an aluminium bike is designed appropriately it can be adequately stiff , light weight and low cost. The market is just carbon fashion Conscious


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

smartyiak said:


> Doesn't it ultimately come down to $$$$ though? Commencal would have to either 1) design, develop, and create a CF frame (which I don't think they'll do), 2) create a competitive horst-link AL XC bike (which I don't think they can do), or create a single-pivot flex-stay AL XC bike (ditto). Not to mention, in #2 and #3, creating something no one really wants. Unless it can be converted to a Trail (or 130/120 DC bike) no one is going to buy that...certainly not XC folks.
> 
> I'm sure they're happy to watch PFP give hugs and high-fives to a bunch of peeps wearing their T's; I just don't think Commencal will be willing to put that kind of devo $$$ behind something with such huge risks...esp when they already have a great thing going.


I went to Commencal website yesterday to look at what their Trail bike and AM bike looked like, to see what their XC bike might look like. I'd buy an aluminium XC bike (if in the market) but those Commencals are an ugly design so that's more of a problem 😂.


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## 2_whl_boost (Jun 28, 2006)

Trying to decode Evie’s Instagram post, is her staff leaving or is she? Seems like her staff, but who knows…..


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Deep and meaningful post remarking on it being one of the mechanic/support staff 🤷‍♂️


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

mail_liam said:


> .


Best post of the thread to date


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Brad said:


> Have you flown recently?
> Aluminium can be designed to flex quite nicely and still have long fatigue life. The amount of flex in flex stays is very small which limits the strain anyway. It’s all very doable we've just forgotten the virtues of aluminium because carbon has been successfully marketed as the best material. Bicycles are not very complex engineering structure’s. Aluminium is far less carbon intensive and has far superior recycle possibilities.
> If an aluminium bike is designed appropriately it can be adequately stiff , light weight and low cost. The market is just carbon fashion Conscious


Kona and Giant have made aluminum XC/trail frames with flex stays. There were some complaints (on MTBR forums) about failures with some of the Giant frames from several years ago. Hard to know if this was statistically significant or simply a case of "internet amplification." I certainly wouldn't worry with a bike intended to last only a few races.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

mail_liam said:


> I don't think it's the bike. She had dropped off the pace on the previous bike first. Maybe she's struggled to adapt to the new Spark but I find it hard to believe that is the cause of her down period.
> 
> I couldn't tell, was the failed derailleur one of the brand new ones?


Well, if the problem is not the SCOTT bike, them perhaps it is the SRAM part of the equation? My belief (based on my own human biases) is that Shimano components are more reliable, and I would particularly expect that the latest, greatest SRAM components are the least reliable. Of course, if other riders on the team (e.g. Nino) are riding the same components as Kate, and they aren't experiencing a high rate of bike/parts failures, then my thesis is likely wrong.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

I think that riders that are riding closer to their physical limits have more mechanicals and punctures just because they make more small mistakes. As swedish downhill skier Ingemar Stenmark said when asked by a reporter how he could have so much good luck: "The more I train, the more luck I have"


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

mail_liam said:


> .


That is deep my friend. Thank you very much for that. Gives me something to think about.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

paramount3 said:


> Well, if the problem is not the SCOTT bike, them perhaps it is the SRAM part of the equation? My belief (based on my own human biases) is that Shimano components are more reliable, and I would particularly expect that the latest, greatest SRAM components are the least reliable. Of course, if other riders on the team (e.g. Nino) are riding the same components as Kate, and they aren't experiencing a high rate of bike/parts failures, then my thesis is likely wrong.


I also think Shimano is the superior drivetrain both in performance and reliability, but I don't think that Kate's derailleur issue can be extrapolated backwards for the last two years of battling mid pack. 

I also think that if, for example, it was the 120mm travel providing too difficult a geo for Kate to find her position, then they'd set her up with a 110 or even 100mm version.

I think she's got the best equipment and is just building her way back up amidst a surge in quality and depth of the women's field.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

LMN said:


> That is deep my friend. Thank you very much for that. Gives me something to think about.


You guys have such incredible wit 🤣.

I still don't know how to delete a post even after your teasing 🤦‍♂️.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> You guys have such incredible wit 🤣.
> 
> I still don't know how to delete a post even after your teasing 🤦‍♂️.


I really wanted to express my admiration for your original post, which I think had the potential to once and for all unify and bring harmony to our little online community of XC aficionados.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

ccm said:


> when you compare number of podium placings, to just top step, how do they compare?


Do you mean podiums of the big ticket events like Olympics and world championships? Or all podiums including world cups? If it's the latter, that seems like a bunch of work and I think you're the man for the job here Tappy.

For these two though, I personally wouldn't be fussed about world cup podiums. For lesser riders with only a smattering of top results, it may mean something to show podiums on their respective palmares but for riders of this stature I'm inclined to just look at the world cup wins when evaluating their career results. I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect neither of them rates lower podium finishes as important markers in their careers, and so I won't either.


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## Skier78 (Jun 10, 2016)

You can just look at their Instagram profiles to see what they rate highest. Both have olympic gold as #1, Absalon doesn’t even mention world cup wins/overall.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Skier78 said:


> You can just look at their Instagram profiles to see what they rate highest. Both have olympic gold as #1, Absalon doesn’t even mention world cup wins/overall.


Of course Absalon doesn't mention anything else, because he is the only one with 2 Olympic golds! 

More seriously though, I can appreciate they value an Olympic gold above all else. However, I don't think that means they don't care about any other results. I think it's quite clear from Nino's visible reactions that he cares deeply about world cup wins, especially in this latter part of his career when they are much tougher to come by.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Skier78 said:


> I think that riders that are riding closer to their physical limits have more mechanicals and punctures just because they make more small mistakes. As swedish downhill skier Ingemar Stenmark said when asked by a reporter how he could have so much good luck: "The more I train, the more luck I have"


Pretty sure it was Gary Player who said this but maybe he borrowed it from Ingemar.
Kates battery died. It does happen when they continuously swap them out. At some point someone is going to forget to charge one and it ends up on the bike.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Kona and Giant have made aluminum XC/trail frames with flex stays. There were some complaints (on MTBR forums) about failures with some of the Giant frames from several years ago. Hard to know if this was statistically significant or simply a case of "internet amplification." I certainly wouldn't worry with a bike intended to last only a few races.


Those frame failures were down to poor fabrication and also design to a more limited extent. There were many more Al faux bar bikes that continue to live happy lives under over weight owners. All of those linkage driven single pivots have a flexible element in the rear triangle. It’s only swig arm single pivots that are designed to be stiff. Kona bikes was a great example of faux bar in aluminium that worked well. But sometimes welders do cock it up, just like carbon fabricators do.



Circlip said:


> Do you mean podiums of the big ticket events like Olympics and world championships? Or all podiums including world cups? If it's the latter, that seems like a bunch of work and I think you're the man for the job here Tappy.
> 
> For these two though, I personally wouldn't be fussed about world cup podiums. For lesser riders with only a smattering of top results, it may mean something to show podiums on their respective palmares but for riders of this stature I'm inclined to just look at the world cup wins when evaluating their career results. I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect neither of them rates lower podium finishes as important markers in their careers, and so I won't either.


Podiums mean a lot to sponsors. Any photo opportunity that illustrates success of their brand is welcomed with open arms. It results in ore exposure, better brand awareness and if they play it right more share of wallet.
It may not mean much to the super successful like Julien and Nino but I’m sure Santa Cruz enjoys having Luca in the podium regularly because it sends a message that SC is a serious race brand not just a trail bike builder


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Is Maxime signed for Santa Cruz next year? I wonder if Luca Braidot would team up with Keegan for Cape Epic - assuming Keegan hasn't joined a road team by then.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Is Maxime signed for Santa Cruz next year? I wonder if Luca Braidot would team up with Keegan for Cape Epic - assuming Keegan hasn't joined a road team by then.


Max is apparently a free agent next year. I think he is racing marathon worlds.
He may resign, he may quit. Rockrider are shopping with Tempiers retirement


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Seems like we'll get a winter/off season of musical chairs. And not just riders - a few of the Trek support staff/ mechanics seem to be leaving for pastures new as well.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

2023 UCI Cycling World Championships Official Schedule


Explore all 11 days of the 2023 UCI Cycling World Championships and plan your time in Glasgow and across Scotland.




www.cyclingworldchamps.com





Next year's Worlds schedule in Scotland; potentially it is possible for Elite male riders to do both Road & XCO races......


----------



## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

As a Santa Cruz bike owner for over a decade, I really like seeing them represented at the front of World Cup XC recently. They have been a major presence in World Cup DH for so long yet seemed like they weren't even trying for WC XC exposure. 

I didn't pick my Santa Cruz Tallboy out of careful research or perceived performance, it was one of those deep discounts late in the year kind of thing. But I have loved it!


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Brad said:


> Pretty sure it was Gary Player who said this but maybe he borrowed it from Ingemar.
> Kates battery died. It does happen when they continuously swap them out. At some point someone is going to forget to charge one and it ends up on the bike.


And this is why I wish Shimano would bring back Di2 for MTB's. Their batteries last forever and I think their drivetrains shift better and are more reliable. But they are certainly heavy.

You can pick up old XT Di2 for a song right now and I am running it on my gravel bike with GRX shifters. It's really sweet.


----------



## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

paramount3 said:


> Well, if the problem is not the SCOTT bike, them perhaps it is the SRAM part of the equation? My belief (based on my own human biases) is that Shimano components are more reliable, and I would particularly expect that the latest, greatest SRAM components are the least reliable. Of course, if other riders on the team (e.g. Nino) are riding the same components as Kate, and they aren't experiencing a high rate of bike/parts failures, then my thesis is likely wrong.


In the end: it's the rider, not the material. Half of the peloton rides SRAM and don't have those issues. The neater the rider takes their lines (better skills) the less likely the material will receive impacts. My personal experience in multiple disciplines is that it is no coincidence it's often the same riders who have 'bad luck' with their components.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Yeah, I do tend to agree that Kate's performance had declined a bit seemingly separate from the bike, but it's a shame that she seemed to have more mechanical issues right as the form was coming back. That's gotta be frustrating for any rider, especially one on the same team as Nino...


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

Exmuhle said:


> 2023 UCI Cycling World Championships Official Schedule
> 
> 
> Explore all 11 days of the 2023 UCI Cycling World Championships and plan your time in Glasgow and across Scotland.
> ...


Interesting to have XCM and XCO worlds the same week. I'm curious to see how many riders try to do both.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> And this is why I wish Shimano would bring back Di2 for MTB's. Their batteries last forever and I think their drivetrains shift better and are more reliable. But they are certainly heavy.
> 
> You can pick up old XT Di2 for a song right now and I am running it on my gravel bike with GRX shifters. It's really sweet.


You don't want Di2 on your mtb.....
too many dead batteries, broken wires etc. When the battery just stops working its a pain to get to and often they're not in stock. No thanks.

Kate rode SRAM at Specialized too and she didn't have as ,any mechanicals there. Overall I think its just a case of she's just not as into her job as she was 5 years ago. A rider can train till the cows come home but fatigue, burn out is real. you don't execute as vigorously but maybe you do more of what you prefer. training load is the same but the training effect isn't. It snowballs and before you know it you're lost. hings start going wrong in training flows over to racing. You cant find the right set up, you start changing things. you fiddle more with the suspension, taking up more of your mechanics time, the small things fall off the tble (like charging batteries or tracking which are and aren't charged). Your bike stops feeling right, you struggle with some basics like tyre pressure and so it cascades into a space where nothing goes right.
Breaking this cycle is hard because you need to stop some things to allow other things to progress. What should be stopped? What should you continue with? 
Being successful continuously requires you to understand how everything you don contributes or is detrimental to your performance


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Interesting to have XCM and XCO worlds the same week. I'm curious to see how many riders try to do both.


may actually have more of the XCO racers participating in the XCM worlds that way


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Brad said:


> may actually have more of the XCO racers participating in the XCM worlds that way


They really should have scheduled XCM a few days after XCO, not a few days before.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

uintah said:


> They really should have scheduled XCM two days after XCO, not two days before.


I'd rather race XCM before XCO not the other way around. Recovery from a all out Z5/6 effort for 80min is a bit tougher than recovering from a 3-4hr effort mostly at tempo to threshold.
But thats just me. I'm used to it


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## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

roth88 said:


> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathias-flueckiger-claims-innocence-in-doping-case-sample-should-have-been-reported-atypical-not-positive.html
> 
> 
> 
> This is interesting. I don't understand the delay in testing the B sample, but it seems like the primary sample wasn't as conclusive as it initially sounded. I think this type of thing should be resolved much more promptly - it's more fair to the cyclist in question and the entire circuit.


This is honestly heartbreaking to me. 

I posted earlier about how innacurate low-level testing of organic molecules can be. It is just extremely hard to know with certainty that a molecule is actually present in blood at parts per trillion levels. I'm confident that lab did an excellent analysis but they should have interpreted the data differently. Too bad for Fluck. 

With this type of analysis, any athlete could get popped. Clean athletes should never be punished for false-positive results.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

xcskier66 said:


> I'm confident that lab did an excellent analysis but they should have interpreted the data differently.


Interpreted it differently how?


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Interesting to have XCM and XCO worlds the same week. I'm curious to see how many riders try to do both.


I wonder how hilly it is around there, or how much trail network is available. Reading the description of the XCM, which is very generic, doesn't sound promising for any sort of technical race.

It'll be interesting to see what is said of this year's XCM course after the fact .


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

Brad said:


> You don't want Di2 on your mtb.....
> too many dead batteries, broken wires etc. When the battery just stops working its a pain to get to and often they're not in stock. No thanks.
> 
> Kate rode SRAM at Specialized too and she didn't have as ,any mechanicals there. Overall I think its just a case of she's just not as into her job as she was 5 years ago. A rider can train till the cows come home but fatigue, burn out is real. you don't execute as vigorously but maybe you do more of what you prefer. training load is the same but the training effect isn't. It snowballs and before you know it you're lost. hings start going wrong in training flows over to racing. You cant find the right set up, you start changing things. you fiddle more with the suspension, taking up more of your mechanics time, the small things fall off the tble (like charging batteries or tracking which are and aren't charged). Your bike stops feeling right, you struggle with some basics like tyre pressure and so it cascades into a space where nothing goes right.
> ...


Wow, I feel this post personally. I also happen to have forgotten to charge the battery for my wife's bike at a race a couple weeks ago. It happened to be her first high level pro win. When I got the bike back to clean it up, I saw the red light on the shifter. I _barely_ got away with not ruining her race. It reminds me of avalanche safety school, where you learn about how sometimes you "get away with" poor decision making, but it's lethal to make a habit of.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Alvaro is leaving Trek Factory Racing...he's like the top mechanic for Anton and Neff...maybe Evie also. I've seen Youtube videos of Vlad with another mechanic, but don't remember the name...


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

uintah said:


> Interpreted it differently how?


 WADA's guidance was that his results should be listed as "atypical" not "positive" for where he was at. However, the Pinkbike article was essentially a press release and not the lab report so who knows the truth.


----------



## xcskier66 (Mar 4, 2018)

uintah said:


> Interpreted it differently how?


Low-level quantification on a mass spectrometer involves some pretty complicated use of calculus and statistics and professional judgement. basically, it is extremely hard to separate the signal from the noise and if you rely too much on the computerized analysis you can make data interpretation mistakes. A smart analytical chemist will be very suspicious of any result that is near the limit of quantification and flag the value as suspicious and manually check it, at the very least. At very low-level analysis you could give the same instrument output to several different scientist and get several different results. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of analytical chemistry. 

And every sample has a +/- accuracy. A value is never 0.3 it is 0.3 +/- a confidence interval. When you factor in all of this, it's very possible to get false positives for weird chemicals.

I would also like to add, that overall drug testing is very accurate and worthwhile. 

But when you get athletes testing positive for random weird steroids with little performance enhancing benefit (Contador, Houlihan, Fluckinger), I really start to question things.


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## Mamil1 (May 20, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> I wonder how hilly it is around there, or how much trail network is available. Reading the description of the XCM, which is very generic, doesn't sound promising for any sort of technical race.


It's hilly rather than mountainous. About 400 mrtres height difference between the tops and the valley. There are plenty of tech trails. The tweed valley regularly hosts an EWS. There is scope to put together a marathon course with more technical difficulty than either the grand raid or the Sella Ronda hero.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

xcskier66 said:


> And every sample has a +/- accuracy. A value is never 0.3 it is 0.3 +/- a confidence interval. When you factor in all of this, it's very possible to get false positives for weird chemicals.


Two comments - First, WADA has pretty thorough procedures for follow-up confirmation analysis (still on the A sample) of anything that gets flagged as positive on the first pass. Whenever possible, the confirmation analysis uses a completely different method from the initial test, so the likelihood of false positives is reduced as much as possible. That's why it's relatively rare for B samples to come back negative if the A sample was positive.
Second, the article says that B sample analysis has not been requested, which suggests that Fluckiger or whoever is advising him has already accepted that it's a real positive and are going to focus on trying to prove that it got into his system accidentally.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

Brad said:


> Pretty sure it was Gary Player who said this but maybe he borrowed it from Ingemar.
> Kates battery died. It does happen when they continuously swap them out. At some point someone is going to forget to charge one and it ends up on the bike.


I had a battery die that I had charged the day before.


bikeranzin said:


> Wow, I feel this post personally. I also happen to have forgotten to charge the battery for my wife's bike at a race a couple weeks ago. It happened to be her first high level pro win. When I got the bike back to clean it up, I saw the red light on the shifter. I _barely_ got away with not ruining her race. It reminds me of avalanche safety school, where you learn about how sometimes you "get away with" poor decision making, but it's lethal to make a habit of.


I charged a battery up before a race, and it went dead 6 hours in. I still don't know what happened there...


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Rumores 2023: Prototipo de XC de Commençal, ¿y equipo de Copa del Mundo?


Commençal mostró el prototipo de una bici de doble de XCO (o más bien de down-country) en el Mundial de Les Gets, y los rumores dicen que podrían estar interesados en entrar en competición para esta modalidad




esmtb.com





Seems like they have already invested a fair bit of effort down the path of XCO


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

I think Commencal's last XC bike was the Super 4, which had both Alu and carbon models made up to 2013/14? 

they had heaps of trouble with Aluminium frames cracking with the Meta 55/66's in the early 2000's which was only fixed in 2010 by getting the frames made in Taiwan.
I hope they do a bike for XC but I wouldn't hold out much hope for it.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

We'll know the makeup of the Trek team in early October. All riders and staff are gathering in Wisconsin the weekend of the Cyclocross WC at Trek headquarters.


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## MarkJ70 (May 31, 2006)

Other than sponsors requiring it, why would a racer with mechanic(s) use AXS? Don’t the components weigh more, and in my experience the shifting is slightly less quick. The only advantage to me seems easier installation and more accurate shifting without as much fine-tuning, but if you have a mechanic to set your bike up before each ride, most of that advantage seems to disappear anyway. Personally, I prefer the feel and performance of Shimano shifting anyway and have that on my XC race bike, but my trail bike came with AXS and after a couple months I swapped to SRAM X01 cable shifting because I hate having to charge the battery and the only advantage seemed to be a little less fussing with the barrel adjuster on the shifter to get perfect shifts.


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## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

MarkJ70 said:


> Other than sponsors requiring it, why would a racer with mechanic(s) use AXS? Don’t the components weigh more, and in my experience the shifting is slightly less quick. The only advantage to me seems easier installation and more accurate shifting without as much fine-tuning, but if you have a mechanic to set your bike up before each ride, most of that advantage seems to disappear anyway. Personally, I prefer the feel and performance of Shimano shifting anyway and have that on my XC race bike, but my trail bike came with AXS and after a couple months I swapped to SRAM X01 cable shifting because I hate having to charge the battery and the only advantage seemed to be a little less fussing with the barrel adjuster on the shifter to get perfect shifts.


AXS shifting system is lighter. AXS dropper is heavier (by a lot). A mechanic spending time with shift cabling is a mechanic not spending time on something else. So you have to triage your time, and installing/calibrating an AXS system is way faster compared to a cable system. The error rate for AXS shifting is pretty dang low. And if you do happen to have an error, at WC level support, you can basically do what BC did, which is swap out the chain+der, which seems to be uniquely fast compared to what you'd have to do with a cabled der failure (e.g. smashed into one of the eleventy-billion rocks on the VDS course).


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## tommyrod74 (Jul 3, 2002)

theMISSIONARY said:


> I think Commencal's last XC bike was the Super 4, which had both Alu and carbon models made up to 2013/14?
> 
> they had heaps of trouble with Aluminium frames cracking with the Meta 55/66's in the early 2000's which was only fixed in 2010 by getting the frames made in Taiwan.
> I hope they do a bike for XC but I wouldn't hold out much hope for it.


I would love to see an aluminum XCO bike from someone - anyone - at a decent weight, good geometry, and a non-astronomical price. I think a brand like Commencal could bring some new riders into the XC racing fold.


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## jf45 (Nov 23, 2021)

MarkJ70 said:


> Other than sponsors requiring it, why would a racer with mechanic(s) use AXS?


The less force (and less lever throw) needed to shift can become a meaningful difference at the end of a race.. [not joking].


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Two comments - First, WADA has pretty thorough procedures for follow-up confirmation analysis (still on the A sample) of anything that gets flagged as positive on the first pass. Whenever possible, the confirmation analysis uses a completely different method from the initial test, so the likelihood of false positives is reduced as much as possible. That's why it's relatively rare for B samples to come back negative if the A sample was positive.
> Second, the article says that B sample analysis has not been requested, which suggests that Fluckiger or whoever is advising him has already accepted that it's a real positive and are going to focus on trying to prove that it got into his system accidentally.



It doesn't seem like Swiss Sport was strictly following WADA procedures.

Second - "No B-sample test has been requested to date, but a hair analysis has been commissioned." I don't think they have accepted anything. They just want to use hair instead of the B sample. So, just a different path.



jf45 said:


> The less force (and less lever throw) needed to shift can become a meaningful difference at the end of a race.. [not joking].


I personally experienced this at a 7 hour race I was doing. By the end on certain sections my thumb was just not happy with my GX cable system.

There is a big, however here though, the chain retention with AXS doesn't seem to be nearly as good. My friends who ran it before I did were dropping chains in areas I never had a problem.

I now run GX AXS (mostly because it's kind of fun), but I have a chain guide because I didn't want to worry about it.


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## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

Brad said:


> Overall I think its just a case of she's just not as into her job as she was 5 years ago.


So you're saying AXS can pick up your aura and f up your derailleur?


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## down0050 (Aug 4, 2014)

tommyrod74 said:


> I would love to see an aluminum XCO bike from someone - anyone - at a decent weight, good geometry, and a non-astronomical price. I think a brand like Commencal could bring some new riders into the XC racing fold.


And I think Commencal has the credibility to actually sell it! I would be down for a brushed aluminum XC bike with World Cup pedigree...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

VegasSingleSpeed said:


> So you're saying AXS can pick up your aura and f up your derailleur?


Lol no
I’m saying she’s making more mistakes on and off the bike and that’s leading to equipment failure , falls , crashes lack of mojo.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

down0050 said:


> And I think Commencal has the credibility to actually sell it! I would be down for a brushed aluminum XC bike with World Cup pedigree...


That's key for many, myself included. If they put an aluminum XC bike under a world cup racer or two, then it's legit. Like how Manitou suddenly seems like an option because Rockrider is using them. I'm actually considering a full Manitou front/rear shock swap. I used only Manitou forks for 25 years until my 2016 Top Fuel. So a quick way to seem serious about selling to XC racers, is to go to the races. Santa Cruz, Ibis, Manitou, they get it now I think. I bet their sales went up immediately once the world cup racers started showing up with them.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

tommyrod74 said:


> I would love to see an aluminum XCO bike from someone - anyone - at a decent weight, good geometry, and a non-astronomical price. I think a brand like Commencal could bring some new riders into the XC racing fold.


Would love Specialized to start making an Alloy Epic Again. I've got one from '18-19 and it's a great every day & training bike for the rock garden that is AZ. 
It would be great to have the new '21 geometry. My Alloy Epic fully loaded with a SWAT Box, Tube, CO2 & Twin Water Bottles is about 26 lbs.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Augustus-G said:


> Would love Specialized to start making an Alloy Epic Again. I've got one from '18-19 and it's a great every day & training bike for the rock garden that is AZ.
> It would be great to have the new '21 geometry. My Alloy Epic fully loaded with a SWAT Box, Tube, CO2 & Twin Water Bottles is about 26 lbs.


At $3-4K and up for top carbon race frames, the first big guy to make a cheaper aluminum equivalent, with the exact same geometry and everything would be a hero. Aluminum race tubing can get pretty light. Pure XC racing, not enduro or trail weight. I remember in the 90's some really nice and light Easton framesets. Heck, I'd be happy with a small custom builder really trying to compete with a real XC race frame. Never going to be as light or swoopy as a carbon frame, but should still be doable.


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## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Rocky Mountain has a new alloy bike though I don't know what the frame weight is. The Specialized Chisel frame is pretty light and can probably be built up to be about a 20lb complete bike.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

The Chisel is a great example. My cousin has one and it's a great bike for the money. But I'd like to see a world cup level aluminum bike from someone. It could be a great bike for NICA high school racing too. I see high school racers with $8K bikes all the time, most don't have less than a $5K bike. They hardly need state of the art. A good $2500-$3K aluminum XC race bike would be awesome.


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## arnea (Feb 21, 2010)

I was about to write that it would be cool to have Nicolai to update the Saturn 11 and went to check their site and there was an update. 2023 model has boost rear wheel and can take 2.4" tyre. 2700 euro and 2.65kg. also available in XXL size and you can modify the geometry if you want.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> Kates battery died. It does happen when they continuously swap them out. At some point someone is going to forget to charge one and it ends up on the bike.


Battery died so they replaced the rear mech, chain and shifter?


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## Corpus.iuris. (Apr 20, 2018)

Just chekced the entry list for Marathon World Champs, and it looks like small World cup. Just longer duration.
87.5k for womens, and Pauline is my pick. What do you guys think, can marathon specialist do somethinblh on this course, i.e. not a typical marathon course with steep and long hils


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Battery died so they replaced the rear mech, chain and shifter?


Did they? Pretty sure she wasn’t in the pit that long


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> Did they? Pretty sure she wasn’t in the pit that long


You’re certainly correct in that it wasn’t long:


__
http://instagr.am/p/CiIKPWIjc0H/

Full swap in 55 seconds, apparently. 

Either they didn’t know the battery died, or it wasn’t actually the battery. Either seems feasible. Though dead battery perhaps less so when considering the preparation necessary for such a fast swap.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Delete


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ShortTravelMag said:


> The Chisel is a great example. My cousin has one and it's a great bike for the money. But I'd like to see a world cup level aluminum bike from someone. It could be a great bike for NICA high school racing too. I see high school racers with $8K bikes all the time, most don't have less than a $5K bike. They hardly need state of the art. A good $2500-$3K aluminum XC race bike would be awesome.


I had a Chisel, and I think the geometry was almost the same as the Epic.....I'm not sure why I sold it......


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Corpus.iuris. said:


> Just chekced the entry list for Marathon World Champs, and it looks like small World cup. Just longer duration.
> 87.5k for womens, and Pauline is my pick. What do you guys think, can marathon specialist do somethinblh on this course, i.e. not a typical marathon course with steep and long hils


Anyone know whose streaming it live? Or where a replay might be? Other than flobikes. I am not paying for that service. YouTube direct maybe?


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Corpus.iuris. said:


> Just chekced the entry list for Marathon World Champs, and it looks like small World cup. Just longer duration.
> 87.5k for womens, and Pauline is my pick. What do you guys think, can marathon specialist do something on this course, i.e. not a typical marathon course with steep and long hills





https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/3Wwf7leFFVJl9YRY1Od0hc/45b8aedd3ff905c32341bcbfe09daad9/HADE_EntryList.pdf


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## bananajoe (May 15, 2015)

Exmuhle said:


> https://assets.ctfassets.net/761l7gh5x5an/3Wwf7leFFVJl9YRY1Od0hc/45b8aedd3ff905c32341bcbfe09daad9/HADE_EntryList.pdf


Thanks for the list!
Kulhavy riding? 😮


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

Brad said:


> Did they? Pretty sure she wasn’t in the pit that long


If I recall correctly, they tried a new battery the first time she stopped. It worked for a few shifts then she was singlespeeding for a half lap. Next pit stop they changed shifter and derailleur in 55 seconds. 

Huge bummer for Kate, but still impressive wrench work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

RexRacerX said:


> You’re certainly correct in that it wasn’t long:
> 
> 
> __
> ...



I guess it would make sense to do a full swap if you weren’t sure it was the battery. Be bad to throw on a new battery and have it die 100 yards outside of the pit.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

agm2 said:


> I guess it would make sense to do a full swap if you weren’t sure it was the battery. Be bad to throw on a new battery and have it die 100 yards outside of the pit.


Not that it matters, it being so rare, a complete rear derr/shifter swap during a race, but the new SRAM mounting system coming soon, that doesn't look nearly as easy? I cant tell, but one single 5mm bolt to pop off the rear mech as it is now, versus that thing that mounts to both sides of the axle? Pop out the axle, take out the rear wheel, then somehow remove the whole hanger/mech part? Just an observation. The one bolt system as it sits now was the quickest way to swap. Again, I know, it's not something that happens often enough to worry about.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

ShortTravelMag said:


> At $3-4K and up for top carbon race frames, the first big guy to make a cheaper aluminum equivalent, with the exact same geometry and everything would be a hero. Aluminum race tubing can get pretty light. Pure XC racing, not enduro or trail weight. I remember in the 90's some really nice and light Easton framesets. Heck, I'd be happy with a small custom builder really trying to compete with a real XC race frame. Never going to be as light or swoopy as a carbon frame, but should still be doable.


I think I spent $2,500 on my Epic Comp on sale. Full price was $2900 in very late 2018. 
From there it has been my Ultimate Upgrade Project to the point that, minus Cranks, it's basically and S-Works spec on an Alloy Frame.
I save the carbon bike for race days. The Alloy Epic is by far the most ridden pony in my stable. 
If they could do it with the '18 model the '21 would be a snap. It's a much simpler design. No Split Top Tube.

I had a Chisel. Then I let my lady start riding it. Now she's claimed as her Urban Assault MTB. 
I guess I could always use it as an excuse for N+1...


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Corpus.iuris. said:


> Just chekced the entry list for Marathon World Champs, and it looks like small World cup. Just longer duration.
> 87.5k for womens, and Pauline is my pick. What do you guys think, can marathon specialist do somethinblh on this course, i.e. not a typical marathon course with steep and long hils


For the Men: Jordan Sarrou
Since you took PFP, for the Women: Haley Batten.

Both did very well at the Cape Epic over the longer distances.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Trek make quite a nice Aluminium Top Fuel. I wonder what it would be like with some light bits (bars, wheels, etc) and a headset angle adjustment back to the 67° range.

It's currently a weighty bike and too slack at the HTA for my preference but it's a nice looking option. 

I'd love to see some proper racey Aluminium bikes.

Sam Gaze is still aiming for XCM World's. It'll be interesting to see if he can get his body to the right level.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

Here is a topic for debate: should there be a minimum weight specifically for XC bikes? UCI has a minimum bike weight of 6.8 kg (15.0 lbs) that applies to all disciplines. For road bikes, this limit is easy to hit, but we're far from that for XC bikes. This could potentially make it more feasible to use frame materials other than carbon fiber, and it would also encourage building bikes for reliability and performance, as well as light weight.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

xcskier66 said:


> Low-level quantification on a mass spectrometer involves some pretty complicated use of calculus and statistics and professional judgement. basically, it is extremely hard to separate the signal from the noise and if you rely too much on the computerized analysis you can make data interpretation mistakes. A smart analytical chemist will be very suspicious of any result that is near the limit of quantification and flag the value as suspicious and manually check it, at the very least. At very low-level analysis you could give the same instrument output to several different scientist and get several different results. It's unfortunate, but it's the reality of analytical chemistry.
> 
> And every sample has a +/- accuracy. A value is never 0.3 it is 0.3 +/- a confidence interval. When you factor in all of this, it's very possible to get false positives for weird chemicals.
> 
> ...


I'm not an analytical chemist, but I there might be another phenomenon involved in false positives: I suspect that the more compounds you look for, the more likely it is that you will get a false positive. A similar phenomenon is observed in clinical trials, particularly in the neuroscience therapeutic area. Let's say a drug truly has no efficacy against any condition. But if you run a number of trials against different conditions, it is possible you will see statistically significant efficacy in one of the trials--not because the drug works, but rather because you're simply rolling the dice enough times that you see a random result that looks statistically significant.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Long live the legend of aluminum race bike era. Those were the days.





__





steve larsen - Google Search






www.google.com


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

uintah said:


> Long live the legend of aluminum race bike era. Those were the days.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yeah those were the days. I had two of those Homegrown Factories...folded the first in half on a roll, and cracked a weld on the second. Other than that, they were sweet bikes.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

Augustus-G said:


> For the Men: Jordan Sarrou
> Since you took PFP, for the Women: Haley Batten.
> 
> Both did very well at the Cape Epic over the longer distances.


I was thinking the same thing. Sarrou has been looking good lately and smoked everyone (with teammate Matt Beers) at Cape Epic in 2021. 

Batten was awesome this year at Cape Epic. I think PFP won 2 stages also. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

I think marathon XC needs to be more prominent. For me, an old guy, it more resembles what XC racing was back in the day. Point to point often, no laps, and LONG. The field for mens and women's is way more stacked than usual. That's a good sign, maybe it will get more popular. It's very convenient to have the worlds one week after XCO. And not too far away. I wouldn't bet against PFP. She seems very determined and prepared for this one. Wish I could find where they are streaming it.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I think marathon XC needs to be more prominent. For me, an old guy, it more resembles what XC racing was back in the day. Point to point often, no laps, and LONG. The field for mens and women's is way more stacked than usual. That's a good sign, maybe it will get more popular. It's very convenient to have the worlds one week after XCO. And not too far away. I wouldn't bet against PFP. She seems very determined and prepared for this one. Wish I could find where they are streaming it.


Would be pretty wild to have PFP (anyone) in rainbow stripes for XCC, XCO, and XCM all in the same year. That’s a rad thing to do.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I think marathon XC needs to be more prominent. For me, an old guy, it more resembles what XC racing was back in the day. Point to point often, no laps, and LONG. The field for mens and women's is way more stacked than usual. That's a good sign, maybe it will get more popular. It's very convenient to have the worlds one week after XCO. And not too far away. I wouldn't bet against PFP. She seems very determined and prepared for this one. Wish I could find where they are streaming it.


Agree - it needs more work on the promotion. One hopes the new promoters have got plans to do this. 

From memory, last year's race was on GCN/Eurosport.....


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Exmuhle said:


> Agree - it needs more work on the promotion. One hopes the new promoters have got plans to do this.
> 
> From memory, last year's race was on GCN/Eurosport.....


I looked on gcn and didn’t see it listed as an upcoming race. Bummer


----------



## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

Exmuhle said:


> I had a Chisel, and I think the geometry was almost the same as the Epic.....I'm not sure why I sold it......


The Chisel is actually half a degree more slack than the Epic HT and has better ride quality. It's cushy for a hardtail. The frame is a little over a pound heavier though....


----------



## Carioca_XC (Dec 30, 2014)

Still on the WC and World Champs…
I found it kind of odd that Titouan Carod won in Mont-Sainte-Anne and Val di Sole, and performed so poorly (comparatively) at the World Champs, the race in between those WC that he absolutely dominated… 
I thought he would fight for the win in Les Gets.


----------



## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

paramount3 said:


> I'm not an analytical chemist, but I there might be another phenomenon involved in false positives: I suspect that the more compounds you look for, the more likely it is that you will get a false positive. A similar phenomenon is observed in clinical trials, particularly in the neuroscience therapeutic area. Let's say a drug truly has no efficacy against any condition. But if you run a number of trials against different conditions, it is possible you will see statistically significant efficacy in one of the trials--not because the drug works, but rather because you're simply rolling the dice enough times that you see a random result that looks statistically significant.


Your logic makes sense if the positive (or atypical) result were based on a single broad analysis, but WADA protocol is to follow up on any potential positive from the broad analysis with a targeted quantification using a method specific to the compound of interest that is performed at least in triplicate and verified by at least two people. It's very unlikely for a false positive to withstand that level of scrutiny. There's a high probability that the substance was actually in his body. What we don't know is how it got there and whether it was intentional.


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Carioca_XC said:


> Still on the WC and World Champs…
> I found it kind of odd that Titouan Carod won in Mont-Sainte-Anne and Val di Sole, and performed so poorly (comparatively) at the World Champs, the race in between those WC that he absolutely dominated…
> I thought he would fight for the win in Les Gets.


Maybe he caught the bug everyone was talking about...I asked myself the same question.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Carioca_XC said:


> Still on the WC and World Champs…
> I found it kind of odd that Titouan Carod won in Mont-Sainte-Anne and Val di Sole, and performed so poorly (comparatively) at the World Champs, the race in between those WC that he absolutely dominated…
> I thought he would fight for the win in Les Gets.


He was also ill the week before worlds. The race village had a bit of a stomach bug mini pandemic.


----------



## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

bananajoe said:


> Thanks for the list!
> Kulhavy riding? 😮


Sam Gaze riding?!


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Keegan Swenson is riding road worlds for the US down in Australia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

NordieBoy said:


> Sam Gaze riding?!


Yeah. On IG he's posting about trying to be ready for it. It'll be interesting to see how his body can handle the vibrations. 

Anton and Ben Oliver are down to race, and Anton is on the Start List for the Whaka 100. Depends quite a lot on their recoveries from the Rona though.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

How can we / can we? Watch it?


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Sam Gaze riding?!


Yes and he confirmed on his instagram feed that he is planning to race


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> Here is a topic for debate: should there be a minimum weight specifically for XC bikes? UCI has a minimum bike weight of 6.8 kg (15.0 lbs) that applies to all disciplines. For road bikes, this limit is easy to hit, but we're far from that for XC bikes. This could potentially make it more feasible to use frame materials other than carbon fiber, and it would also encourage building bikes for reliability and performance, as well as light weight.


don't quote me on this, but if I recall they were walking about tis in one of the world cup coverages, it is 6.8kg, for all bikes, which includes mtb. (but then maybe it was comm games coverage, so take that for what its worth)...


----------



## GSPChilliwack (Jul 30, 2013)

tick_magnet said:


> The Chisel is actually half a degree more slack than the Epic HT and has better ride quality. It's cushy for a hardtail. The frame is a little over a pound heavier though....


Do they even sell this as a “frame only” option?


----------



## tick_magnet (Dec 15, 2016)

GSPChilliwack said:


> Do they even sell this as a “frame only” option?


They did last year. And there is a 2022 frameset listed by some dealers but it's not available yet.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

For those of you who really enjoy watching and listening to Rob Warner call races, there's this. Today: 





Yeah... I know. Baggies, really heavy bikes and not much uphill pedaling, but insane action and really fun to watch. Expand your horizons and enjoy! (And for the record.... I don't ride down any hill I did not climb. But I still enjoy watching this. )


----------



## scottg (Mar 30, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> For those of you who really enjoy watching and listening to Rob Warner call races, there's this. Today:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love watching the DH events and this one is unique and special. I tried to find a thread about this stuff and came up empty - which seems strange considering the huge discussions about XC racing. 

Amazing to see Goldstone win it as an 18 year old. It's really cool to see how these guys support each other at this event, where guys are sometimes just happy to get down in one piece.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

scottg said:


> I tried to find a thread about this stuff and came up empty - which seems strange considering the huge discussions about XC racing.


Like I said, my background is very ancient, very vanilla XC. Definitely ZERO DH. This place seems slanted mostly that way, whereas PinkBike is kinda the opposite... they live, eat, sleep DH and will somewhat reluctantly mention XC. If you dig all things gravity, PB is you place.

Apologies Mods for the thread derail.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I watch both. And got my wife into watching XC / DH also. They are both excellent for different reasons.
I go to pinkbike comment threads for DH and here to talk XC.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrUwdBdVCdkl0AHR44GTSJg/videos



You Tube channel for the XCM Worlds on Saturday; not sure how extensive the coverage will be.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrUwdBdVCdkl0AHR44GTSJg/videos
> 
> 
> 
> You Tube channel for the XCM Worlds on Saturday; not sure how extensive the coverage will be.


Hmmm.... it almost sounds as if those people are not speaking English.


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

no sign of it on GCN+, even when signed in from the UK.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Looks like Andreas Seewald is riding a Hardtail at XCM World's.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

It is the end of 2022, so a little corruption of this thread should not be too besetting.... for those of you who would enjoy seeing Brendan Fairclough chase Nino Schurter downhill on enduro bikes... this was a fun watch.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> Hmmm.... it almost sounds as if those people are not speaking English.


I recall the XC Marathon from Turkiye in 2020 - I think it was on YouTube; I've just checked - here it is:


----------



## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

More rumors about Ineos creatin a MTB specific team with PFP and possibly Sina Frei. 









Rumores 2023: INEOS creará un súper equipo de MTB, ¿con Pauline Ferrand-Prevot?


INEOS parece estar cerrando un nuevo equipo de MTB, que sería independiente del conjunto de carretera. Pauline Ferrand-Prevot es el nombre más importante que suena para esta nueva estructura




esmtb.com


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I guess it's a cheap way for Ineos to say they are supporting Women's cycling. Looks more true than I thought.

I wonder if they'll also do a road team 🤷‍♂️.


----------



## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

mail_liam said:


> I guess it's a cheap way for Ineos to say they are supporting Women's cycling. Looks more true than I thought.
> 
> I wonder if they'll also do a road team 🤷‍♂️.


Be interested to see if it’s a stand alone or if Pidcock would share resources at world cups. Get more bang for you buck on infrastructure on race day.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

It seems more and more likely Ineos would grab her for a "team" Pidcock and Prevot, both independent, both on BMC bikes at least to start. Does make perfect sense. More sense than Commencal now that you mention it.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Except the article says the Mtb team will be completely separate from the road team with different management , resources , base etc. sounds more like PFP is putting her own team together with Ineos as title sponsor


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It sounds a bit like the FDJ women's team, which has no connection to the Groupama-FDJ men's team.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Link for XCM Worlds live results and supposed live YouTube broadcast. Starts tomorrow around 8:30 AM local time (pretty early for the American continents).

PFP and Jolanda both there. Haven’t looked at who else. 









Follow the UCI MTB Marathon World Championships live - Haderslev 2022 MTB


Follow the UCI MTB Marathon World Championships live On 17 September at 8.30 the elite will start from Haderslev and race the UCI Mountain Bike Marathon World Championships. You can follow the standings live on Sportstiming under live times: Live på Sportstiming We will also live stream the event




www.haderslev2022mtb.com


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

No English speaking version? I guess viewing is better than nothing. Thanks for the link.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

emmairisofficial said:


> XCO stands for Cross-Country, Country, Olympic, and Cross-Country is a mountain biking discipline that is practiced by amateurs as well as professionals throughout the world. Take advantage of an application like download nswhatsapp to get the most out of your infrastructure on race day.


I'm not sure what you are talking about to be honest. I know what XCO is, have been racing for 3 decades. I simply am wondering if there's a stream of the race with commentators that I can understand natively. That's it.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

ShortTravelMag said:


> I'm not sure what you are talking about to be honest. I know what XCO is, have been racing for 3 decades. I simply am wondering if there's a stream of the race with commentators that I can understand natively. That's it.


I think we just got spammed. 1 post.


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Ha, I think you're right. just signed up, stupid post, sending you to a dumb link...morons.


----------



## mostlyeels (Apr 9, 2020)

jrob300 said:


> I think we just got spammed. 1 post.


Yep, reported.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Danish & English commentary, with annoying background music; with only a few static cameras..... It's not a great watch.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

RexRacerX said:


> Link for XCM Worlds live results and supposed live YouTube broadcast. Starts tomorrow around 8:30 AM local time (pretty early for the American continents).
> 
> PFP and Jolanda both there. Haven’t looked at who else.
> 
> ...


  the coverage is so so bad i may as well be listening to it over a wireless transistor radio in the early 1980’s


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Well it shouldn't be too hard for Discovery to improve XCM coverage; it's a pretty low bar. At the moment it's the local organisers. Which is why there is a variance in coverage; last year it was far better with live motorbike cameras..


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Well I reckon a church bazarre with a couple of Grade 1's using their trainer drones could do better than this crap


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Looks like Sam Gaze and Annie Last won the XCM World Champs...I'm still scrambling to get accurate results...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Correction...PFP was awarded the win,,,sprint against Annie Last...


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

__





Haderslev MTB Challenge XCM 2022


Vi tilbyder professionel tilmelding, tidtagning og resultat-formidling til events af alle typer og alle størrelser, samt services til løbsarrangører.




www.sportstiming.dk


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> Looks like Sam Gaze and Annie Last won the XCM World Champs...I'm still scrambling to get accurate results...


super stoked for Gaze!!
I gave up watching nd went for a 3hr training ride instead


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

PFP won…


__
http://instagr.am/p/CinRflFsNA-/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Brad said:


> super stoked for Gaze!!
> I gave up watching nd went for a 3hr training ride instead


Don’t worry. I checked the YouTube feed before the men’s race was over and it had “ended.”

So, you didn’t miss missing it?


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

Also. Congrats to Gaze and PFP, who now hold 5 of 6 rainbow jerseys in XC… that’s something.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

RexRacerX said:


> Also. Congrats to Gaze and PFP, who now hold 5 of 6 rainbow jerseys in XC… that’s something.


they won them fair and square. But I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both riders were basically nowhere during the long season. It’s like Lance just targeting the Tour every year. I think most everyone else was worn out! Except Nino, who seems to always be ready to rumble.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Sam to be fair kept getting injured. PFP played her "I want rainbows" card really well. It's not as impressive as completing a season and winning rainbows, but from a "I am only targeting this events" perspective I am impressed.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

ShortTravelMag said:


> they won them fair and square. But I don’t think it’s a coincidence that both riders were basically nowhere during the long season. It’s like Lance just targeting the Tour every year. I think most everyone else was worn out! Except Nino, who seems to always be ready to rumble.


It would be as if Lance only targeted the world champs crit, road race AND the TdF.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

NordieBoy said:


> It would be as if Lance only targeted the world champs crit, road race AND the TdF.


Which he would have, if they were all within 3 weeks of each other. That's my point, she saved it all up and blasted it. He was the first as far as i remember, to become a "I'm only interested in TDF wins" kind of racer. It was smart, as the general public doesn't know or care about any other race really...he's not going to get on the Tonight Show and date Sheryl Crow if he wins Paris Rubaix 7 times, or something like that. PFP knows that the rainbow stripes count 10X more than regular season world cup wins and even the overall. I would imagine other racers are thinking, hmm, I can skip traveling all over the world, and just stay home and train my butt off and walk away with an even better contract and respect forever. It's really not a bad idea. To win 3 world champs in a few weeks time is pretty awesome I'd say. What if Nino did that? I wonder if he'd be able to pull it off? Skipping a bunch of races right before, then win another world champs? 

Still, Annie Last is the most impressive. Is she even on a team anymore? I think maybe not? To go to the line with PFP and Neff, and lose it by a nose is rough I bet.

Why the UCI can't have equal coverage as the Marathon is beyond me. They treat it as it's no big deal, but could be a huge deal if marketed and shown like a World Cup.


----------



## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Why the UCI can't have equal coverage as the Marathon is beyond me. They treat it as it's no big deal, but could be a huge deal if marketed and shown like a World Cup.


The UCI does a lot of things that baffle me... re: the whole Redbull debacle most recently comes to mind. I don't know how they are viewed in the MTB world, but on the road side they are very much like the AMA used to be in American motorcycle roadracing. Did not do much for the sport and were the only game in town.... so if you wanted to play....


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## D Bone (Jul 20, 2014)

Let's see in PFP can ever win a season long World Cup title...


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

D Bone said:


> Let's see in PFP can ever win a season long World Cup title...


She probably could, but she must have figured out that it doesn’t count for much. What counts is the Olympic gold and world champs stripes. Keller raced her butt off this year. But she won’t get the media attention outside her home area that PFP will. Keller was the hero to me though. Rissved’s was looking so consistent but couldn’t last, and Terpstra. What can you say about bad luck.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

PFP did target the overall to. It just didn’t work out due to reasons she revealed in the interview published on several sites. Once she restructured her immediate environment she came good turned her season around. She will be a major threat at every World Cup in 2023.

Coverage of the marathon season was pathetic. Blame the uci here. They’re the only show in town and have done nothing to promote XCMdespite the format being much more tv friendly with the long laps used at world champs The Epic series is the only organisation that delivers good coverage of stage races And XCM.
Haderslev was clear case of no coverage being better than a4 hr long tourism advertisement


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Agree about the coverage, it felt as if the UCI left it to the organising club to sort everything, including coverage, etc 
Let's be honest, for a World Championship event, the coverage wasn't good enough - far from it. There should be minimum requirements needed to host WC events; good live coverage is one of them.

It will be interesting to see what ESO/Discovery does with XCM World Cups. However, I do have concerns.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

XCM also seems to be the format most people race. I don't know of any actual xco races near me (that aren't for high school kids). 

I am surprised at just how little the UCI does to promote it. But, I guess I shouldn't be. There is a reason the UCI isn't in Gravel.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

cassieno said:


> I am surprised at just how little the UCI does to promote it. But, I guess I shouldn't be. There is a reason the UCI isn't in Gravel.


ummmm.....









2022 UCI GRAVEL WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS


UCI GRAVEL WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS



www.uci.org










UCI Gravel World Series – UCI Gravel World Series







ucigravelworldseries.com


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I should have said seriously in Gravel. But yes, there is that event. I mostly meant that no Gravel organizations in the US see value from joing the UCI. Things like XCM sort of demonstrate to me just how out of touch they are.

However , I think PFP is targeting gravel worlds also?


----------



## FortOrdMTB (May 29, 2021)

cassieno said:


> XCM also seems to be the format most people race. I don't know of any actual xco races near me (that aren't for high school kids).
> 
> I am surprised at just how little the UCI does to promote it. But, I guess I shouldn't be. There is a reason the UCI isn't in Gravel.


MTB races are in short supply near me. XCM is nonexistent unfortunately.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I don't remember Discovery announcing any coverage of the XCM circuit?

Agree with the comments regarding the dissappointing coverage. XCM is a super awkward thing to try cover though. Cape Epic does it the best and they are a very well financed organisation with high entry fees for thousands of amateur competitors. I imagine there's no way some of the races are brining in enough money to have the infrastructure to have that much live coverage.

Look at the Lifetime Grand Prix series, it's ended up being mostly IG Stories uploaded when in cellphone coverage.

I found it frustrating again reading the elitist comments about the XCM course not being XCM because it didn't have enough vertical metres. Sure, comment on it being an easy course, but it's still XCM. Courses are all different. They may even have a technical course one day, and that will suit a different set of riders again (maybe). It's all about racing the course and competitors on the day.

Also, yeehaa! Go Sam! Shows he had great legs in the XCO too. He'll be riding a wave of motivation for next year.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Coverage is interesting. Flosports is covering the lifetime grandprix. But their coverage is trash so no one pays for it. No one paying for it shows that it's not worth investing in to improve. And the cycle repeats (I am also not paying for it because it's trash and get what I want out of Instagram stories).

I also enjoy that Blunk was denied from the Lifetime grand prix and has been winning so much lately.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

cassieno said:


> I also enjoy that Blunk was denied from the Lifetime grand prix and has been winning so much lately.


She was denied?


----------



## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

uintah said:


> She was denied?


I think there were _only_ 30 men and 30 women who were eligible to win the grand prize at the end of the season.

Some of the invitees were really strange selections. People who had never, to my knowledge, contested an MTB race, for example.









Life Time announces 60 riders for inaugural Grand Prix race series


Amity Rockwell, Ruth Winder, Katerina Nash, and Lea Davison headline women's list; Keegan Swenson, Alex Howes, Pete Stetina, and Kiel Reijnen top the men's.




www.velonews.com






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> I think there were _only_ 30 men and 30 women who were eligible to win the grand prize at the end of the season.
> 
> Some of the invitees were really strange selections. People who had never, to my knowledge, contested an MTB race, for example.
> 
> ...


Yeah I get it. I'm questioning if she was denied. Did she apply? Seems strange.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Thats a good point. I don't know. Not included may be a better statement. I don't know why she wasn't. I assumed denied.


----------



## nya (Oct 22, 2011)

cassieno said:


> Thats a good point. I don't know. Not included may be a better statement. I don't know why she wasn't. I assumed denied.


From an article/interview on her team's page it is more like she decided she want's to do world cups so she didn't go for the series entry..


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I need to look back at her season, but I don't remember seeing her until the US world cup, but I do remember seeing Gwendolyn slowly progressing. 

That also sounds like something you say if you don't get an entry. 

She seems to be having a breakout year, hope we see more of her next year.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

nya said:


> From an article/interview on her team's page it is more like she decided she want's to do world cups so she didn't go for the series entry..


There are multiple interviews where she stated that her and Cole have completely different objectives. His focus on endurance and herself on the World Cups. But of course someone here knows she was "denied".


----------



## squareback (Sep 19, 2011)

The people on a a first name basis with "Gwendolyn" don't call her "Gwendolyn".


----------



## VegasSingleSpeed (May 5, 2005)

squareback said:


> The people on a a first name basis with "Gwendolyn" don't call her "Gwendolyn".


Don't hurt your shoulder from patting yourself on the back.


----------



## bikeranzin (Oct 2, 2018)

squareback said:


> The people on a a first name basis with "Gwendolyn" don't call her "Gwendolyn".


Deep insight. Do people on a first name basis with PFP call her PFP? I need answers.


----------



## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

bikeranzin said:


> Deep insight. Do people on a first name basis with PFP call her PFP? I need answers.


Do N1no’s best friends spell it with an “I” or a “1”???


----------



## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

smartyiak said:


> Do N1no’s best friends spell it with an “I” or a “1”???


With an 'i'. But the 'o' is a '0'. We like to keep him grounded.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

uintah said:


> There are multiple interviews where she stated that her and Cole have completely different objectives. His focus on endurance and herself on the World Cups. But of course someone here knows she was "denied".


You are reading way to much into this. I assumed. I was proven wrong. Looks like WCs were her focus. 

I still appreciate a non-lifetime athlete getting first in lifetime races.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

UCI breidt Wereldbeker MTB-weekend flink uit


Een weekend in de Wereldbeker mountainbike gaat er in 2023 anders uitzien. De UCI heeft bekendgemaakt dat er meer wedstrijden deel gaan uitmaken van een UCI Mountain Bike World Cup. Zo krijgen de beloften hun eigen shorttrack-races en worden Cross Country marathon-wedstrijden toegevoegd aan het...




www.wielerflits.nl





Interesting news; XCC for the U23 riders, and XCM becomes part of the World Cup.....Would like to see more details of how they're going to organise the Marathon course routes.....


----------



## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

The only bummer with the Marathon being added with the XCO is doesn't that rule out people doing both? Not that there were many anyways I guess. But at least the Marathon is moving up in status a bit. It might be a case where when the XCO guys get old, they can start doing the marathons. Seems many do well with the longer distances when pushing 40. 



A weekend in the Mountain Bike World Cup is going to look different in 2023. The UCI has announced that more races will be part of a UCI Mountain Bike World Cup. For example, the promises get their own short track races and Cross Country marathon races are added to the schedule.

The UCI management committee approved those changes during the World Cycling Championships in Australia. Following the recent success of the men's and women's short track competitions, which were only introduced a few years ago, it has been decided to give the U23 riders their own category.

Four short track races are therefore held during each World Cup. This often happens on Friday evening, two days before the regular Cross Country games on Sunday.

In addition, the MTB Cross Country Marathon will be integrated into the current World Cup weekends. This means that the own Marathon Series will be cancelled. In addition, from 2024, the Enduro and e-Enduro races will be part of the Mountain Bike World Championship.

In August, the 2023 MTB World Cup calendar was already presented. The first moto takes place in Valkenburg, the Netherlands.


----------



## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Hopefully all the World Cup venues we enjoy are keen and able to create an XCM course. Potentially fantastic for the XCM racers if they do build up coverage and hopefully field strength etc.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yes, that's something I'm looking forward to seeing how they address this. My nightmare is them doing multiple laps of the XCO track........and calling it Marathon.


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> UCI breidt Wereldbeker MTB-weekend flink uit
> 
> 
> Een weekend in de Wereldbeker mountainbike gaat er in 2023 anders uitzien. De UCI heeft bekendgemaakt dat er meer wedstrijden deel gaan uitmaken van een UCI Mountain Bike World Cup. Zo krijgen de beloften hun eigen shorttrack-races en worden Cross Country marathon-wedstrijden toegevoegd aan het...
> ...


This is awesome news!!
XCM courses would likely be 20km and longer laps to make up the required distance
from 2024 Enduro will also form part of the race weekend. When will I get time to ride


----------



## Brad (May 2, 2004)

mail_liam said:


> Hopefully all the World Cup venues we enjoy are keen and able to create an XCM course. Potentially fantastic for the XCM racers if they do build up coverage and hopefully field strength etc.


most of the course venues are in or close to trail parks that have 100km of trail network


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> Yes, that's something I'm looking forward to seeing how they address this. My nightmare is them doing multiple laps of the XCO track........and calling it Marathon.


I'd watch it, but I don't think the field would be very big 🤣. That would be a brutal way of racing. I don't think there's any XCM on the current circuit near that technical. You'd have to come to the Whaka, or BCBR/ST6 (I know the stages are shorter than XCM but still)


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> most of the course venues are in or close to trail parks that have 100km of trail network


I'm excited for it if they can do it well!

It'd be interesting if some of the riders would ride XCM over XCO if the financial/exposure benefits/opportunities were similar between XCO and XCM. Obviously many have Olympic aspirations.

They could make the XC World Cup and overall over the three distances. One jersey to rule them all 😅.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

That's the big question; can they do it well? At the moment I can give them the benefit of the doubt. It will be interesting to see how they fit everything in the new World Cup weekends. What day do they run the Marathon?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> That's the big question; can they do it well? At the moment I can give them the benefit of the doubt. It will be interesting to see how they fit everything in the new World Cup weekends. What day do they run the Marathon?


I am thinking the marathon would be the following weekend. This extends the duration of the event or XCC Friday, XCM Saturday and XCO Sunday.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Yeah, I was trying to work out how they could do it, especially when there is DH on Saturday; they surely won't want events overlapping. Maybe Friday late morning, to finish shortly before the U23 XCC, which is likely to be before the Elite XCC. But I'm not sure that would work, or be popular. Maybe the whole format that we currently have will be changed to suit.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Brad said:


> I am thinking the marathon would be the following weekend.


 That would eliminate back to back XCO WC weekends which happens at least twice per year. The schedule would have to be stretched out drastically. 
Any insight on teams reaction to this? I've heard from a couple riders that they (the riders) were surprised that this is supposed to be implemented for next year.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Exmuhle said:


> Yeah, I was trying to work out how they could do it, especially when there is DH on Saturday; they surely won't want events overlapping. Maybe Friday late morning, to finish shortly before the U23 XCC, which is likely to be before the Elite XCC. But I'm not sure that would work, or be popular. Maybe the whole format that we currently have will be changed to suit.


Overlapping marathon with DH would work fine I think. With marathon, the riders would head way out there so no real spectators lining the course like in XCO or XCC. They could send them off early Saturday morning, then do the DH stuff while they are out. I don't that would be a huge problem. It would eliminate the crossover, do any XCO racers actually also do marathon except for the world champs? Not many I guess.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Overlapping marathon with DH would work fine I think. With marathon, the riders would head way out there so no real spectators lining the course like in XCO or XCC. They could send them off early Saturday morning, then do the DH stuff while they are out. I don't that would be a huge problem. It would eliminate the crossover, do any XCO racers actually also do marathon except for the world champs? Not many I guess.


If all of the endurance racing isn't on the same weekend, most teams will never have the budget to increase the number of support staff adequately enough.


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## agm2 (Jun 30, 2008)

I struggle to see how they fit this all in a 3 day weekend, especially with the enduro being added as well. Since the weekends have been announced i would assume they wouldn’t extend to a second weekend. I would assume xcm would slot into a morning/mid day slot on fri or Saturday


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

If anyone wants to do XCO/M double, having the XCM Friday means they miss the chance to get a good start position for XCO if they skip XCC. It almost seems like you have to go to a skiing model where different venues have different combinations of events.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

ShortTravelMag said:


> Overlapping marathon with DH would work fine I think. With marathon, the riders would head way out there so no real spectators lining the course like in XCO or XCC. They could send them off early Saturday morning, then do the DH stuff while they are out. I don't that would be a huge problem. It would eliminate the crossover, do any XCO racers actually also do marathon except for the world champs? Not many I guess.


That would effect coverage though. If they do provide XCM coverage, it'd clash with DH. 

I think Friday is the most likely candidate. It does rule out the athletes from competing well at XCC so who knows.

The calendar is already set for 2023, I believe these are all 2024 onwards changes.

There's a couple of teams that do XCM and XCO, principal among which is the Speed Company Racing team. Not a huge number of crossover athletes though.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> That would effect coverage though. If they do provide XCM coverage, it'd clash with DH.
> 
> I think Friday is the most likely candidate. It does rule out the athletes from competing well at XCC so who knows.
> 
> The calendar is already set for 2023, I believe these are all 2024 onwards changes.


That was my thinking regarding any overlapping events; the coverage would suffer, and be counter productive.....But who knows what their plans are?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

​


uintah said:


> If all of the endurance racing isn't on the same weekend, most teams will never have the budget to increase the number of support staff adequately enough.


also consider accommodation costs. I haven't heard from anyone i know on the teams yet. It was spoken about to some of the teams over the past few months so it may not be as much a surprise to them as it is to us. I can see many positives.

TV crews are in the same location so can cover all disciplines over the racing days
Smaller teams that participate in both XCO and XCM are now able to cut down on travel time accommodation costs and even pool resources more effectively.
Teams have more UCI points on offer 
Sponsors get more exposure


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

And what about the logistics of housing all of these people?
From what I've read it's quite a chore with just the XCO/XCC & DH Teams at the same site at the same time.
Now you're adding XCM & possibly Enduro teams at the same venue at the same time???
If so it sounds like a recipe for an overcrowded wreck.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I suspect that XCM is going to happen really early in the week, maybe on the Wednesday. I don't see a lot of riders doing XCM, XCC and XCO in a weekend.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Augustus-G said:


> And what about the logistics of housing all of these people?
> From what I've read it's quite a chore with just the XCO/XCC & DH Teams at the same site at the same time.
> Now you're adding XCM & possibly Enduro teams at the same venue at the same time???
> If so it sounds like a recipe for an overcrowded wreck.


I might have misread, but I think Enduro and e-enduro were being added to World Champs not World Cup?


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> I might have misread, but I think Enduro and e-enduro were being added to World Champs not World Cup?


Nope, you're right. The article does mix the two.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

LMN said:


> I don't see a lot of riders doing XCM, XCC and XCO in a weekend.


Not successfully.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Augustus-G said:


> And what about the logistics of housing all of these people?
> From what I've read it's quite a chore with just the XCO/XCC & DH Teams at the same site at the same time.
> Now you're adding XCM & possibly Enduro teams at the same venue at the same time???
> If so it sounds like a recipe for an overcrowded wreck.


There is a lot of accommodation available at most venues and teams have their own camper vans much of the time, especially the smaller teams. I doubt this will be the showstopper


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Not successfully.


eeerrmmmm , anyone watched the cape epic Or Swiss epic or Israel epic lately? These athletes are capable of hammering it out for 7 days at 4 hrs per day. If they can’t they probably should be looking for work as mechanics.
XCC is 20min
XCO is 80min
These efforts should be recoverable for a pro athlete. The events can be stacked sequentially over 3 days and not everyone is going to participate in all three. If anything the XCM will be the race where efforts will be more metered


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Here's a question; do we think they'll include the XCM as part of the combined XC World Cup - and try to encourage some of the top XCO riders to enter the XCM races? I think, as a Promoter, if you want added interest, it might be worth trialling.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Here's a question; do we think they'll include the XCM as part of the combined XC World Cup - and try to encourage some of the top XCO riders to enter the XCM races? I think, as a Promoter, if you want added interest, it might be worth trialling.


It makes sense to try to get this going when viewed against the backdrop of the 4 points i made on an earlier post.
More exposure can only be good for the sport overall


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## Jolyzara (Jan 11, 2022)

Noob question... but what is the distance range of XCO races?


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Jolyzara said:


> Noob question... but what is the distance range of XCO races?


It's time based. I want to say 80-100min, but I've definitely seen shorter than that.

It'll be written down somewhere, but it's a time based range that they change the race distance to match once they know the lap times.


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## jf45 (Nov 23, 2021)

Jolyzara said:


> Noob question... but what is the distance range of XCO races?












(Part IV: Mountain BikeVersion on: 01.01.2022)


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

MVDP arrested the night before World's and abandons at 30k.

Alpecin-Deceuninck team boss: Mathieu van der Poel left mentally broken after UCI Road World Championships arrest


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

And he’s on his way home after paying an admission of guilt fine. Lawyer will be appealing the conviction.
Sounds like they pleaded guilty to get him out of Aus and will deal with the matter. Fighting it would have required him to stay for up to two months


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

He needs to come back to CX and MTB...forget that crazy road stuff where the strongest/most skilled rider doesn't always win.


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## brentos (May 19, 2006)

jrob300 said:


> MVDP arrested the night before World's and abandons at 30k.
> 
> Alpecin-Deceuninck team boss: Mathieu van der Poel left mentally broken after UCI Road World Championships arrest


Crappy situation. He should have just called the police and hotel staff. It is understandable that he was upset, and the physical altercation sounds pretty dang minor (a push). 

It also all sounds a bit like a setup, like those knocking on his door were brought in for that specific task. If so, it had the desired affect.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

brentos said:


> It also all sounds a bit like a setup, like those knocking on his door were brought in for that specific task. If so, it had the desired affect.


I absolutely hate to think this, but this was also my first thought.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I mean, I am sure the teenagers were thinking that as the beat on his door in the middle of the night. Don't know if I would extend it to the police, but fore sure it was intentional on the kids part.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

Going on what has been reported and his guilty plea...

Alot of comments from the cycling world are in defense of MVDPs actions. I disagree with this position. It doesn't matter what the teenagers did, an adult touched them! Just because that adult had an important to him race the following day does not diminish the fact, he touched a child! 

If an adult touched my child, I'm calling the cops. Period. If my child provoked the altercation, that is an issue for me to resolve. It does not excuse the adults actions.

MVDP and his handlers are at fault and should take responsibility for their actions.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

well so much for giving some arzeh0le kids one upside the head, to give them the idea.

no, now they've been "touched" by an adult, fv<k me..........


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Slippery Beaver action!


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Lahrs said:


> Going on what has been reported and his guilty plea...
> 
> Alot of comments from the cycling world are in defense of MVDPs actions. I disagree with this position. It doesn't matter what the teenagers did, an adult touched them! Just because that adult had an important to him race the following day does not diminish the fact, he touched a child!
> 
> ...


While I get your point, I live in (near) an area where adults are robbed by gangs of 12 to 14 year old kids. Teenagers are assholes. 

And MVDP absolutely should have gone about it differently. Like wtf was he thinking. Call the front desk, call the cops. Ask for another room where people don't know who / where he is.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

cmg said:


> well so much for giving some arzeh0le kids one upside the head, to give them the idea.
> 
> no, now they've been "touched" by an adult, fv<k me..........


You'd prefer to teach children to deal with problems by hitting people? 

Yes. They were touched by an adult. Would you prefer I use the word assaulted instead? MVDP touched/hit/assaulted/slapped upside the head children. By his own admission. That's illegal to do. It doesn't matter that he's a professional athlete with an important race the next day. The law applies.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

What a bummer of a topic to have in the XCO thread.

Does anyone know what the likes of a World Cup racer command in appearance fees to come to races (outside World Cup's etc)?

Or do they only pick races they want to do that will help in their preparation for World's?

Do Epic pay all travel and accom? If a race here in New Zealand, or America, or wherever wanted to get a Pro to come down and race in the off-season, is it a case of paying their travel costs and hope they appreciate a holiday? Or do they expect X amount to show up on the start line as payment?


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

your kids should not go around provoking adults. That's really bad manners which I don't think you'd condone.

My oldman always told us to not go around looking for trouble and if we did not to come and cry on his shoulder for protection.
Of course he did if there was an over reaction but we pretty much learned what was acceptable the frst time we had to defend ourselves.
The problems with parenting today is we 're raising a society filled with spoiled entitled little brats who can't be touched or reprimanded unless you engage a psychologist at a professional rate. 

Epic does not pay travel and accomodation. The teams pay their own way but they do command an appearance fee which the plebs pay for through their USD$7500 entry fee


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

mail_liam said:


> What a bummer of a topic to have in the XCO thread.


It's just a bummer no matter where it's posted. Like learning of Mo Wilson's death.

But I thought the event was pertinent because MVDP has been a major player in XCO. The continued discussion surrounding the event, one could argue is off topic somewhat, but not entirely unexpected.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

jrob300 said:


> It's just a bummer no matter where it's posted. Like learning of Mo Wilson's death.
> 
> But I thought the event was pertinent because MVDP has been a major player in XCO. The continued discussion surrounding the even, one could argue is off topic somewhat, but not entirely unexpected.


You're right on both fronts of course, and I wasn't having a go at any one in particular. I was just hoping it'd die a natural death/people could discuss it in a specific thread I could now avoid. Based solely on the Reddit posts and the vitriol in both directions.

✌


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

mail_liam said:


> I was just hoping it'd die a natural death/people could discuss it in a specific thread I could now avoid.


And I think in civil forums this is the way it should work.... and in the absence of moderation we should self-moderate, but we don't always do that. _I_ don't always know where that line is, but in this case, we should probably move further discussion to it's own thread.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

jrob300 said:


> And I think in civil forums this is the way it should work.... and in the absence of moderation we should self-moderate, but we don't always do that. _I_ don't always know where that line is, but in this case, we should probably move further discussion to it's own thread.


I'd say this is generally one of the more civil forums on the internet.

Apologies to all if I strayed off topic too much. Cheers.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Lahrs said:


> I'd say this is generally one of the more civil forums on the internet.
> 
> Apologies to all if I strayed off topic too much. Cheers.


I would agree with you on the first and on the second, I as much as anyone. Please do not feel singled out. Not my intent.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I listened to Payson's podcast with S.Blunk. She recently won one of the the Lifetime series races (not going to try and spell it). Couple interesting takeaways. 
1.first year in elites
2. She wasn't targeting a full WC season (did 5 races), but world cups were her focus. This carried over to the race she won as it was around 2 hours. 

Super cool to have three US women who can be top 10 / podium riders (Gibson, Blunk, and Courtney.) in the WC. 

Hopefully, they all figure out how to handle this off season and come into June (I think that's when the first WC is) strong. 

I also hope that Kate will do a couple US racers with such a late start to the WC season.

Which brings me to.... June 2023 is so far away.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

cassieno said:


> Super cool to have three US women who can be top 10 / podium riders (Gibson, Blunk, and Courtney.) in the WC.


Think you might have missed Haley Batten in there. How about we make it four?


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I don't know how I forgot her. She has been doing so good.


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## rp86 (9 mo ago)

New podcast I found interviewing some WC XC racers: Short Track Talk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Some interesting racing over the weekend, and in different weather conditions; but wins for Koreztky, PFP, Sarrou, Forster amongst others. I thought it was ironic that the French & Swiss races were in CX conditions - yet the CX race at the MTB centre in Beringen was dry & sunny.....

Going by instagram posts, a lot of riders have ended their seasons.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

cassieno said:


> Which brings me to.... June 2023 is so far away.


It would be nice if more WC XCO racers would do Cape Epic since the late start. It gives them more time to recover and rebuild until the start of the season.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I think the first XC World Cup is 5-7th May, in Valkenburg.....


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## primoz (Jun 7, 2006)

Lahrs said:


> If an adult touched my child, I'm calling the cops. Period. If my child provoked the altercation, that is an issue for me to resolve. It does not excuse the adults actions.


No offense but that's exactly why world is in state that it is in at the moment. Kids have all the rights, but absolutely no responsibility. As @Brad wrote, back in old days (not that old, as at least around here, it was 20-30 years ago still this way), you got a smack around your head if you did stupid things, not that your parents would be calling police or lawyers, because someone reacted to thing spoiled brats did.
If your child provoked the altercation, he or she should be responsible for this and and of consequences. And while I agree it should be your thing to resolve BEFORE it would happen, and it's parents thing to raise kids proper way, once it happens, it's not only your thing anymore. But nowadays kids are raised with mentality that nothing can happen to them,they are not responsible for anything, and whatever they do, it's fine and without consequences.
As of this case, I have no idea what really happened, but I know for myself I would be seriously pissed if someone would be banging my door at 23:00, regardless if I would have race or no race next morning. If someone thinks it's perfectly fine for 13 and 14 years old kids banging around hotel at 23:00, they should seriously consider the way their parenting is going to.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

primoz said:


> No offense but that's exactly why world is in state that it is in at the moment. Kids have all the rights, but absolutely no responsibility. As @Brad wrote, back in old days (not that old, as at least around here, it was 20-30 years ago still this way), you got a smack around your head if you did stupid things, not that your parents would be calling police or lawyers, because someone reacted to thing spoiled brats did.
> If your child provoked the altercation, he or she should be responsible for this and and of consequences. And while I agree it should be your thing to resolve BEFORE it would happen, and it's parents thing to raise kids proper way, once it happens, it's not only your thing anymore. But nowadays kids are raised with mentality that nothing can happen to them,they are not responsible for anything, and whatever they do, it's fine and without consequences.
> As of this case, I have no idea what really happened, but I know for myself I would be seriously pissed if someone would be banging my door at 23:00, regardless if I would have race or no race next morning. If someone thinks it's perfectly fine for 13 and 14 years old kids banging around hotel at 23:00, they should seriously consider the way their parenting is going to.


I suggest we take any more discussion on this topic to the comments section here: https://www.pinkbike.com/news/mathi...ult-after-altercation-with-teenage-girls.html

Some of them are gold! "They even were there long enough for a roadie to wobble out on his bird legs into the hallway and lay hands on them."


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

MvdP didn't beat them up, he simply pushed them away. A completely reasonable response imo. It's not like he was in public and had the opportunity to just leave, they were at his sanctuary.

It's classic that these girls were acting like brats, and when after multiple warnings they were simply pushed they are like 'oh I'm hurt, arrest this terrible man, why would anyone do this to me'.

We wonder why people are so entitled as adults.

I hope this doesn't damage his career.

If I were the parents I'd request charges be dropped and have my kids write an apology letter, but then I guess I expect responsibility out of teenage girls.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

There's no excuse for assault against ANYONE, let alone minors. Were the teens being annoying? Yes, by all accounts, they were. It does not excuse assault and MVDP is now facing the consequences of his stupid decision. MVDP could've done three things to avoid this:

1. Called the police
2. Sought assistance from hotel staff
3. Sought assistance from other members of his own entourage

He isn't some delicate flower who doesn't know how to act like a responsible adult. He broke the law and there can be no excuses or mitigation because he is a professional cyclist.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Do we really need to hash out morality/ human behavior etc in this thread? Start a new one so those of us that don't give a sh*t about this particular incident don't have to see this crap when we get an alert about a new post that is potentially about the topic we subscribed to.


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## Suns_PSD (Dec 13, 2013)

A push is 'assault'? Really?

Sure he could have handled it better, but if he's anything like me when I'm half asleep I'm not all there.

It's typical and disturbing that so many think there is no responsibility at all by the girls for what occurred. They weren't 5 year-olds for gosh sakes.

IME, a good smack will cure an awful lot of people from acting like dumbasses now, and in their future. It's actually a healthy thing to learn that actions have consequences that can physically hurt.

Instead these girls will be emboldened by their free pass to antagonize and hassle people, just cause it's fun to them.

What crime are they being charged with for damaging his performance, safety and health? After all real money is on the line for these professional athletes.

If they were grown men you'd likely cheer him on for smashing out their teeth, but because they are 14 they get a free pass? WTF


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Let it go. The Pinkbike thread is perfect for arguing about that event.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

cassieno said:


> [Any] Pinkbike thread is perfect for arguing


Truth.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

how does the Dutch cycling federation not have enough money to secure an entire wing or floor of a resort for the world champs? especially when you have stacked men's and women's teams? i bet next year will be entirely different along with security detail.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Not quite XCO WC but one of the regular poster's wife had a great ride at the BC Bike Race. Congrats. Please fill us in on some details when you get a chance.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jct said:


> how does the Dutch cycling federation not have enough money to secure an entire wing or floor of a resort for the world champs? especially when you have stacked men's and women's teams? i bet next year will be entirely different along with security detail.


have you seen the cost of flights to Australia from Amsterdam?


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

I saw Katarina Nash riding in the Elite Road Race WC this weekend. She is an amazing athlete and it is cool that she is still of the caliber that she can participate in her first road worlds at this phase in her career. Announcers said it was her first anyway. She got quite a bit of TV time at the back of the peloton, my take was that she probably isn't used to or entirely comfortable in a large group so rode at the back. But you could see the accordion effect was working her over, she looked like she was constantly chasing hard to regain contact. And she uses super wide bars compared to the roadies, especially considering the current trend of super narrow bars with inward-angled shifters for a pseudo-aerobar effect.


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> have you seen the cost of flights to Australia from Amsterdam?


yea sure it's expensive. but this is the Dutch...not the USA or some other country where cycling is the 35th most popular sport.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jct said:


> yea sure it's expensive. but this is the Dutch...not the USA or some other country where cycling is the 35th most popular sport.


TRue but they flew out a large contingent of people. Jnrs, U19, U23, ELITES and the Admin Probaby the largest team there + long haul, long stay to deal with jet lag. It all adds up


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## jct (Mar 26, 2004)

Brad said:


> TRue but they flew out a large contingent of people. Jnrs, U19, U23, ELITES and the Admin Probaby the largest team there + long haul, long stay to deal with jet lag. It all adds up


regardless, i bet they'll handle their elite teams a little different next year. or you'll see riders pay out of pocket for some more comfort and/or security.


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## jfcb (Mar 3, 2010)

jct said:


> how does the Dutch cycling federation not have enough money to secure an entire wing or floor of a resort for the world champs? especially when you have stacked men's and women's teams? i bet next year will be entirely different along with security detail.


They had a separate floor, but MVDP choose to sleep in a different room together with his girlfriend. Still no excuse for people/children to annoy hotel guests for more than 3hrs by being loud in the corridor and then be surprised people get angry.
And btw, he did pay his own flight (20 000 EUR first class flight)


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It’s not like that had to fly security from the Netherlands. I’m guessing Australia has plenty of security for hire just like any other country in the world.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Anyway, is there any MTB news, regarding riders/ teams etc??


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Suns_PSD said:


> A push is 'assault'? Really?
> 
> Sure he could have handled it better, but if he's anything like me when I'm half asleep I'm not all there.
> 
> ...


The big elephant in the room that the "poor little angels" defense is missing is that they deflect from the facts.
The court statement MVDP and his girlfriend made showed they asked the girls several times to stop i.e. the little brats got caught, not once , not twice but several times and went back for more. That sounds like deliberate antagonism. It's definitely selfish, entitled and speaks to products of really poor parenting that they could not abide by civil requests to stop. They're probably bullies at school and likely "the cool kids".

he's taken responsibility for not bringing in the hotel management, definitely an error in judgement and is paying a price. However the brats get sympathy as victims when in fact they are the aggressors in this story. They went back for more and more. It was no longer about fun for them, or rather the fun become about ensuring their victim was continually uncomfortable and wanted to film it for fun. Anyone who think they're victims needs a lobotomy. I pity these teenagers and the people that will pass through their lives. Without intervention toxic children become toxic adults. One day they will cry wolf one time too many and there will be no one there to help.


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

jfcb said:


> They had a separate floor, but MVDP choose to sleep in a different room together with his girlfriend...


Cyclocross Social podcast said that MVdP had a cold when he arrived in Australia, so he was isolated from the rest of the NED team and that's why he was staying separate from the rest of NED athletes.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

ewarnerusa said:


> Cyclocross Social podcast said that MVdP had a cold when he arrived in Australia, so he was isolated from the rest of the NED team and that's why he was staying separate from the rest of NED athletes.


Except.... "The Netherlands team is also investigating what happened after it emerged that van der Poel was sleeping on a different floor of the hotel to that of his teammates and with his partner Roxanne Bertels, when the altercation happened. National coach Koos Moerenhout has explained that Van der Poel was given another room because he came down with a cold on arrival in Australia, but Van der Poel stayed in the room with his partner until Sunday’s road race. "

- From the CyclingNews article.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Is there not a MVdP discussion thread for this stuff?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Can we kill the MVDP and road worlds talk on this thread? It is pretty far afield of the WC circuit.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I’d like to learn more about the incentives A list XCO stars get for participation in the Cape Epic. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> Can we kill the MVDP and road worlds talk on this thread? It is pretty far afield of the WC circuit.


I tried 2 days ago along with reporting to the mods, which I'm not into, but obviously they didn't care. ?????


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

uintah said:


> I tried 2 days ago along with reporting to the mods, which I'm not into, but obviously they didn't care. ?????


I, for my part, will desist. It is a slippery slope. Funny... they were quite responsive when this thread spiraled for days about suspension travel, geometry and equipment involving the usual suspects when there was already a thread for such discussion. 🤷‍♀️

Carry on with the plethora of pertinent information for 2022 XCO (which is technically over).


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

It’s off season so information is thin on the ground. 
Alan was home participating in some road races. Might see him Saturday at our provincial XCM champs. He may have some insights on incentives the cape epic


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It will be interesting to see who races CX over the winter. Mainly the women, as very few of the men bother......
I suspect Burquier will have made progress v the other U23 riders, and may recommence her battles with Pieterse on some courses.


----------



## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

Any news on Paulene PF which team she will be going ? Or is there a chance she will stay with AA BMC ?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> It will be interesting to see who races CX over the winter. Mainly the women, as very few of the men bother......
> I suspect Burquier will have made progress v the other U23 riders, and may recommence her battles with Pieterse on some courses.


I don't think many will. It is extremely difficult to both MTB race and CX race long term. Not impossible, but attempting to has burned out many a rider.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

LMN said:


> I don't think many will. It is extremely difficult to both MTB race and CX race long term. Not impossible, but attempting to has burned out many a rider.


I'm sure some the the U23 racers, such as Puck, will race CX. If you live near the CX heartland and don't have to travel, the chance of burnout is much lower.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> I'm sure some the the U23 racers, such as Puck, will race CX. If you live near the CX heartland and don't have to travel, the chance of burnout is much lower.


From memory, Puck mainly concentrated on the World Cups last season - and didn't do many of the other series races like most of her rivals did. And it was similar in the recent MTB season; a couple of warm up races in the Netherlands then Albstadt. It looks as though Alpecin are managing her quite well.......


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Annemarie Worst is in USA right now mopping up the CX races. She said in a Freewheeling podcast that she favors the MTB over CX and road and I was always hoping she would have as much of an impact in the MTB XC races as she does in CX. But I don't recall seeing any news about her MTB results.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

ewarnerusa said:


> Annemarie Worst is in USA right now mopping up the CX races. She said in a Freewheeling podcast that she favors the MTB over CX and road and I was always hoping she would have as much of an impact in the MTB XC races as she does in CX. But I don't recall seeing any news about her MTB results.


I think she had a serious crash on the MTB a few seasons ago. I'm not sure how many races she's done since then. And Alvarado is another; won a U23 World Cup in Nove Mesto, and finished 3rd in the U23 Worlds in Leogang; but since then her MTB results aren't particularly good (though neither are her recent CX results due to health issues).


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> I think she had a serious crash on the MTB a few seasons ago. I'm not sure how many races she's done since then. And Alvarado is another; won a U23 World Cup in Nove Mesto, and finished 3rd in the U23 Worlds in Leogang; but since then her MTB results aren't particularly good (though neither are her recent CX results due to health issues).


Yeah, I also like Alvarado! Seeing her on MTB is nice, I remember Insta posts when she won in Nove Mesto. I find it very interesting that she speaks English with a Dutch accent, despite Spanish being her first language. Probably because she is surrounded by Dutch-accented English so it informs her pronunciation. But we have so much experience in USA of hearing English with a Spanish accent that it is weird to hear her have a Dutch accent.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> but since then her MTB results aren't particularly good (though neither are her recent CX results due to health issues).


I'm curious to hear @LMN's opinion on what is happening to our U23 women (and perhaps the men as well.... just does not seem to be as prevalent). Perhaps my observations are wrong, but it seems that many of them do not go on to be everything they seemed like they would be. And many seem to be in poor health. Are we pushing our U23's too hard? And there seems to be more movement to joining the elites early, which I would think only exacerbates this issue. I could be way out in left field on this one, but this is the vague sense I have gotten of late. Thoughts?


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

I’m


jrob300 said:


> I'm curious to hear @LMN's opinion on what is happening to our U23 women (and perhaps the men as well.... just does not seem to be as prevalent). Perhaps my observations are wrong, but it seems that many of them do not go on to be everything they seemed like they would be. And many seem to be in poor health. Are we pushing our U23's too hard? And there seems to be more movement to joining the elites early, which I would think only exacerbates this issue. I could be way out in left field on this one, but this is the vague sense I have gotten of late. Thoughts?


U23 isn’t elite, it is actually a long ways from elite. It is easy to think that dominant U23s will immediately be successful in elite and that is rarely the case. A u23 hitting the top 15 in their first year is a successful transition. Mentally that is hard, one year you are racing for the win and the next year you are in the tightest battles you have ever had and you are barely cracking the top 20.

I am actually not a fan of the U23 category. I think a lot of time riders should be racing domestically at that age. They just don’t have the training capacity, financial support, and time to be successful with international racing.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

LMN said:


> I am actually not a fan of the U23 category. I think a lot of time riders should be racing domestically at that age. They just don’t have the training capacity, financial support, and time to be successful with international racing.


Thanks for the input...


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

Norco pausing XC racing team. It mentions still developing the next XC platform. So hopefully the rumour I spread earlier in thread was wrong, Revolver won't disappearing entirely, it's a great bike.



https://m.pinkbike.com/news/norco-pauses-its-dh-and-xc-factory-teams-for-2023.html



Edit: Little bit more info: Norco Factory Team closes XC and DH programs - Canadian Cycling Magazine


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Lahrs said:


> Norco pausing XC racing team.


And not allowing their riders to announce their new destinations until Jan 1.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

uintah said:


> And not allowing their riders to announce their new destinations until Jan 1.


Just hoping the riders all find destinations!


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

uintah said:


> And not allowing their riders to announce their new destinations until Jan 1.


I’m not sure which is worse, this, or calling it a “pause”. No, you’re shitcanning everyone on your team.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Le Duke said:


> I’m not sure which is worse, this, or calling it a “pause”. No, you’re shitcanning everyone on your team.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It would be interesting to know if they would release everyone early if there wasn't a certain individual's (or two) images whom they want to milk for every last minute possible.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Setting the date at which riders can announce their new teams doesn’t stop them from negotiating their new deals


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Brad said:


> Setting the date at which riders can announce their new teams doesn’t stop them from negotiating their new deals


People have new deals with permission to announce them and Norco is prohibiting them from doing so.


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## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

If a rider is contracted until December 31st and the current sponsor is honoring the contract in place, then it would only make sense for the sponsor to maximize the return on the investment. 

For me, the larger story is a relatively successful team withdrawing from competition. Taking the press release at face value, I can understand a need to make tough financial decisions. Surely Norco will return to racing when it makes sense for them to do so. In the meantime, this is a huge loss to Canadian (in particular) MTB racing and development.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> People have new deals with permission to announce them and Norco is prohibiting them from doing so.


That is standard practice for all MTB teams.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

uintah said:


> People have new deals with permission to announce them and Norco is prohibiting them from doing so.


Well that’s pretty crap.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

LMN said:


> That is standard practice for all MTB teams.


When road teams/ riders are allowed to announce new signings from August 1st, this seems a bit, er 'luddite'.....


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Exmuhle said:


> When road teams/ riders are allowed to announce new signings from August 1st, this seems a bit, er 'luddite'.....


That's what I was thinking.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> That is standard practice for all MTB teams.


What's your experience with a riders ability to ride new gear if they have it already?


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

uintah said:


> What's your experience with a riders ability to ride new gear if they have it already?


This is my perspective as a someone who has owned and operated a team. A rider is paid and supported to promote that team for the duration of their contract. I expected riders to continue to do that until the contract has ended. If they are riding next years bike nobody should see them doing so.

we see this in cross all the time. December they are racing one bike brand and January another.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Exmuhle said:


> When road teams/ riders are allowed to announce new signings from August 1st, this seems a bit, er 'luddite'.....


And there is always problems with this. In nearly every other sport when team changes are announced the change has happened.

The second a rider announces they are racing for another bike brand there promotional value is zero for the current sponsors.


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

I appreciate any North American company sponsoring a WC XC team, and hope they get as much value out of it as they possibly can. The sport needs more sponsors, but they can't afford to pay riders they aren't getting any real value out of. I'd like to see the team name next to the rider every time they show results, etc. both during and after a race. I think it would help boost the promotional value riders bring.


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

Look how Santa Cruz did it, they went with euro riders, not US riders for the World Cup. And Ibis stepped up. I’m not paying those kind of prices on a xc bike, but I appreciate the effort from them.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

uintah said:


> People have new deals with permission to announce them and Norco is prohibiting them from doing so.


Then by definition, they don't have permission to announce them.


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

uintah said:


> People have new deals with permission to announce them and Norco is prohibiting them from doing so.


edit: [should catch up on thread before commenting]

Can someone enlighten me as to why this is a fundamental problem?

It’s not like Norco canned the team mid season: they supported the riders for 2022 season, presumably salary for the year, why shouldn’t they get to capitalize on their investment for the duration of the contract?

Overall, it seems pretty common practice not to be able to announce until the new year. Others know more about MTB contracts, but this makes me assume it effectively goes by calendar year.

No dog in this fight. Just don’t see the issue beyond being excited about/impatient for the future. Probably the worst part is the stress/hassle of having to negotiate a new contract early than planned in some cases (or not getting another one). In other cases, getting out of this contract was maybe a great opportunity to capitalize on recent results.


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

ewarnerusa said:


> Yeah, I also like Alvarado! Seeing her on MTB is nice, I remember Insta posts when she won in Nove Mesto. I find it very interesting that she speaks English with a Dutch accent, despite Spanish being her first language. Probably because she is surrounded by Dutch-accented English so it informs her pronunciation. But we have so much experience in USA of hearing English with a Spanish accent that it is weird to hear her have a Dutch accent.


She's lived in the Netherlands since age 5, and probably didn't speak English before learning it in school in the Netherlands. So to me it's not surprising that she would have a Dutch accent when speaking English.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

The Norco XC team was told in June that the program was ending and the gravity riders were told the money from XC would be moved to DH/Enduro and that they were going to expand the program. All the support staff thought they were still under contract for next year also. They all found out recently that EVERYTHING was done and none of them had jobs. Now there are a bunch of riders and staff scrambling to put something together. You people can try to defend Norco all you want but what they did and are doing was shitty and if they think they can restart the program down the road, riders will remember what they did this year.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

paramount3 said:


> She's lived in the Netherlands since age 5, and probably didn't speak English before learning it in school in the Netherlands. So to me it's not surprising that she would have a Dutch accent when speaking English.


Was going to post the same. Shes Dutch so why wouldn’t she have a Dutch accent?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

Dutch woman has Dutch accent. Amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Le Duke said:


> Dutch woman has Dutch accent. Amazing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


well....not really..........its sort of normal

l mean lm Swiss and have an Australian accent, just saying


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## dysfunction (Aug 15, 2009)

cmg said:


> well....not really..........its sort of normal
> 
> l mean lm Swiss and have an Australian accent, just saying


Please tell me this is when speaking German! 🤡


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## ewarnerusa (Jun 8, 2004)

Sorry everyone, I wasn't trying to come off as racist. What I meant was she was born in Dominican Republic and lived there for her early life from what I understand. Spanish is her first language. Your first language creates a lot of architecture for how you pronounce things, and it is interesting to me how little Spanish vibe I get from hearing her speak.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Le Duke said:


> Dutch woman has Dutch accent. Amazing.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


ya never heard of it, must be a first


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

cmg said:


> well....not really..........its sort of normal
> 
> l mean lm Swiss and have an Australian accent, just saying


Is it a souvenir from a holiday or did you spend a significant amount of time there? Its a horrible souvenir so there must be some sort of intent


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## theMISSIONARY (Apr 13, 2008)

ewarnerusa said:


> Sorry everyone, I wasn't trying to come off as racist. What I meant was she was born in Dominican Republic and lived there for her early life from what I understand. Spanish is her first language. Your first language creates a lot of architecture for how you pronounce things, and it is interesting to me how little Spanish vibe I get from hearing her speak.


It mostly depends on what age someone was living where and what language was used IF she was say 12 and in a country that largely speaks Dutch then the accent would most likely stick.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Looks like a few of the road journalists have got a sniff of the PFP to Ineos rumour......


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Keller announced last week that she renewed for 2 more years with Thomus. PFP + INEOS is apparently a done deal. MvDP to race Gravel Worlds. And a compatriot and ex teammate of mine got Bronze at XCE World Champs


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

carlostruco said:


> Keller announced last week that she renewed for 2 more years with Thomus. PFP + INEOS is apparently a done deal. MvDP to race *Gravel Worlds*. And a compatriot and ex teammate of mine got Bronze at XCE World Champs


Lol. I bet this gets the UCI's panties in a wad. The name Gravel Worlds belongs to a small, informal (Ok... with all this attention to gravel racing, it IS getting larger and more formal) race in Lincoln, NE.

Gravel Worlds

They basically told the UCI to go pound sand as they had the name first. So the UCI has to (well.... supposed to. These things often end with who has the most expensive lawyers) use the term UCI Gravel World Championships. The whole thing is kinda comical and nice to see someone stick it to the UCI.

So.... correction. MVDP is racing the UCI Gravel World Championships. 

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ma...tion-at-inaugural-gravel-world-championships/


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'm not a massive fan of the way gravel racing has developed; it's not much different to road racing - and we're seeing road pros having a go. This course looks mainly flat, and not too technical.......
I hoped gravel would have different formats; but it's gone for the simplest format.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

What format were you hoping for? I also don't know what it is outside of the US. But, in the US it's not the simplest format, there is no governing body and there are a ton of technical courses.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

cassieno said:


> What format were you hoping for? I also don't know what it is outside of the US. But, in the US it's not the simplest format, there is no governing body and there are a ton of technical courses.


The UCI race looks pretty lame as far as technicality is concerned. Certainly nothing like a BWR would throw at them.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

jrob300 said:


> Lol. I bet this gets the UCI's panties in a wad. The name Gravel Worlds belongs to a small, informal (Ok... with all this attention to gravel racing, it IS getting larger and more formal) race in Lincoln, NE.
> 
> Gravel Worlds
> 
> ...


I'd be highly surprised if the UCI cares/has to recognise the race called "Gravel World's" any more than "Gravel World's" cares/recognises the UCI. 

Can you even trademark such a colloquial name? 

Anyway, MVdP competing at (and presumably taking it seriously) the World Championship will certainly add a fair bit of legitimacy to a fledgling niche sport.

Hopefully he kicks arse and it motivates him to take on a couple of XCM races at some point too. Or, maybe Cape Epic with Sam Gaze.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

uintah said:


> The UCI race looks pretty lame as far as technicality is concerned. Certainly nothing like a BWR would throw at them.


Honestly, I forget that the UCI has their hand in Gravel at all. But, that makes sense now. Road racing for dirt roads is about all I would expect the UCI to come up with.


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

mail_liam said:


> Or maybe Cape Epic with Sam Gaze.


I would love to see more of the XC WC racers take on Cape Epic. It's an awesome race. As for a roadie with ambitions in the spring classics, not sure late March could even be a consideration.


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

In Jeopardy slang...what is Strade Bianche?


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

carlostruco said:


> In Jeopardy slang...what is Strade Bianche?


A gravel race with some pavement sectors (60km gravel/120km pavement).
Ridden on road bikes with skinny tyres at speeds mere mortals would only see on a downhill with a tail wind.


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## Eric F (May 25, 2021)

NordieBoy said:


> A gravel race with some pavement sectors (60km gravel/120km pavement).
> Ridden on road bikes with skinny tyres at speeds mere mortals would only see on a downhill with a tail wind.


While I agree 100% with the second line, I would opine that Strade Bianchi is a road race with some gravel sectors for flavor, and is still a road race, very much the same way that Paris-Roubaix is road race.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

The gravel of Strade Bianche looks to be really, really smooth in comparison to what I see in many places in the US. 

Somehow, it appears that they've managed to avoid braking bumps there, which is a horror that cannot be unseen or un-felt.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

cassieno said:


> What format were you hoping for? I also don't know what it is outside of the US. But, in the US it's not the simplest format, there is no governing body and there are a ton of technical courses.


Multi day races, multi stage races like an Enduro race, etc I'm only aware of single day races.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

PFP also racing Gravel World Championship. I guess she likes rainbow striped clothing


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> PFP also racing Gravel World Championship. I guess she likes rainbow striped clothing


We have our favourites. I like blue and orange . She likes rainbows.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Cervélo ZHT 5, su primera MTB para la llegada del Jumbo Visma a nuestro deporte


La Cervélo ZHT 5 no solo es la primera bici de MTB de la marca, también es la confirmación de que el Jumbo Visma estará en el MTB a partir de 2023




esmtb.com





Cervelo building a XC MTB......Interesting....


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Cervélo ZHT 5, su primera MTB para la llegada del Jumbo Visma a nuestro deporte
> 
> 
> La Cervélo ZHT 5 no solo es la primera bici de MTB de la marca, también es la confirmación de que el Jumbo Visma estará en el MTB a partir de 2023
> ...


That article mentions the new Cervelo hardtail is for Milan Vader (who rides for Jumbo Visma).

He had that massive crash in April this year but according to this interview from July looks to be getting over it now fortunately.

_He broke his spine in 11 places, cracked eight ribs, broke a shoulder, a collarbone, an eye socket and a cheekbone. The biggest worries, however, were a perforated lung and a ruptured and punctured carotid artery that required stents to keep him alive. Vader was stable, but doctors placed him in an induced coma in which he didn’t come out for 12 days.”_ *Rouleur*









'When I woke up, I was already thinking about cycling': Milan Vader on his road back to racing


We’ve been talking for close to half-an-hour, and I’ve been astounded - inspired, even - by Milan Vader’s positivity. Ten weeks ago, just a few hours after I’d last seen him smiling and laughing as he went to sign-on at stage five of the Itzulia Basque Country, the Dutchman crashed hard and...




www.rouleur.cc





.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

There is a mini review on You Tube by Guy Kesteven - and there are hints at another bike (F/S) , but can't be mentioned.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> Cervélo ZHT 5, su primera MTB para la llegada del Jumbo Visma a nuestro deporte
> 
> 
> La Cervélo ZHT 5 no solo es la primera bici de MTB de la marca, también es la confirmación de que el Jumbo Visma estará en el MTB a partir de 2023
> ...


how to extract premium $$ from an open mould frame.........paint it yellow and print cervelo on the downtube


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

Ridley released a new XC (or TR) bike...









Ridley Raft, así es su nueva doble de 100 (XC) o 120 mm (TR)


Ridley ha presentado su nueva Ridley Raft con versiones de 100 o 120 mm de recorrido, un cuadro ligero y precio competitivo para sus montajes




esmtb.com


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Brad said:


> how to extract premium $$ from an open mould frame.........paint it yellow and print cervelo on the downtube


Completely agree, it's super generic and the spec isn't even crazy high. The only price I've seen is the GBP one, but £5000 for a pretty generic hardtail with no particular innovation, and a mediocre (for that money) fork is pretty wild. 

I like Cervelo as a brand for their innovation in the past, and I'm keen to see what they come up with for the full suspension... But that's too much.


----------



## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Brad said:


> how to extract premium $$ from an open mould frame.........paint it yellow and print cervelo on the downtube


With a 69* HTA to boot. 
2018 Called. It wants its geometry back.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

At the risk of derailing this thread... does anyone know why Tom Pidcock is in Los Angeles??? His last few rides on Strava have been in the area. Yes, I have searched elsewhere.

Morning Ride - Tom P.'s 96.7 km bike ride


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> At the risk of derailing this thread... does anyone know why Tom Pidcock is in Los Angeles??? His last few rides on Strava have been in the area. Yes, I have searched elsewhere.
> 
> Morning Ride - Tom P.'s 96.7 km bike ride


There are a couple of Ineos guys who go out there. I know Geraint Thomas has spent a good about of time in LA over the years, particularly in the winter. 

Why? I’d guess good riding, good weather and change of scenery. Too many laps around Teide on the Gran Canaria for them over the years, I’d bet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## donR (11 mo ago)

jrob300 said:


> At the risk of derailing this thread... does anyone know why Tom Pidcock is in Los Angeles??? His last few rides on Strava have been in the area. Yes, I have searched elsewhere.
> 
> Morning Ride - Tom P.'s 96.7 km bike ride


Wow, looks like a spectacular ride! Interesting to see what the XC riders are up to in the off season. Thanks for posting.


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## cmg (Mar 13, 2012)

Augustus-G said:


> With a 69* HTA to boot.
> 2018 Called. It wants its geometry back.


thats what got me, was expecting around 67
and the price.........


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Augustus-G said:


> With a 69* HTA to boot.
> 2018 Called. It wants its geometry back.


Oops, I was thinking 69* was slack...


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

NordieBoy said:


> Oops, I was thinking 69* was slack...


not in 2022 apparently


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

jrob300 said:


> At the risk of derailing this thread... does anyone know why Tom Pidcock is in Los Angeles??? His last few rides on Strava have been in the area. Yes, I have searched elsewhere.
> 
> Morning Ride - Tom P.'s 96.7 km bike ride


probably escaping high heating gas prices in the UK


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> At the risk of derailing this thread... does anyone know why Tom Pidcock is in Los Angeles??? His last few rides on Strava have been in the area. Yes, I have searched elsewhere.
> 
> Morning Ride - Tom P.'s 96.7 km bike ride


People thought it was because there are two CX World Cups in the US the next two weekends; however he's not entered for Waterloo....and probably unlikely Fayettville either.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Exmuhle said:


> People thought it was because there are two CX World Cups in the US the next two weekends; however he's not entered for Waterloo....and probably unlikely Fayettville either.


I read an interview with him and he said he was going light on CX this winter to focus on Spring Classics, which probably means no XCO until late season.


----------



## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Brad said:


> probably escaping high heating gas prices in the UK


From his Strava Tom Pidcock looks to be based in Canillo, Andorra most of the time. Like many pro cyclists it’s a more convenient location to train and travel from to races than Northern England. He probably doesn’t spend that much time in the UK.


Canillo








Canillo · AD100, Andorra


AD100, Andorra




maps.app.goo.gl





When the Queen died in mid September the Tour of Britain was cancelled suddenly, the day before the Gloucestershire stage was due to be held. Gloucestershire County Council had resurfaced nearly all the roads on the route with fresh tarmac. Whenever I’m riding any of those resurfaced sections now I’m always reminded that this billiard table smooth tarmac was laid down specially for Tom Pidcock, even though he never got the chance to ride it! 

Apparently even though the race was cancelled there were no refunds of costs incurred for locations on the later stages that weren’t run.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Brad said:


> not in 2022 apparently


The Epic is 67.5*, the EVO is 66.5*
IINM, the Spark is 67*.
The new BMC is 66.5*.

The Cervelo is closer to the old '18-'20 model Epic.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

WR304 said:


> Apparently even though the race was cancelled there were no refunds of costs incurred for locations on the later stages that weren’t run.


This seems to be pretty standard these days in most cases all the money has been spent. 



Augustus-G said:


> The Epic is 67.5*, the EVO is 66.5*
> IINM, the Spark is 67*.
> The new BMC is 66.5*.
> 
> The Cervelo is closer to the old '18-'20 model Epic.


Comparing a hardtail to a FS isn't one for one. A hardtail gets a steeper HA and longer reach. A FS gets a slacker HA and shortens up a bit (or a lot depending on how much travel you have). 

All that means is that the Cervelo is even more out of touch with modern world cup course demands. But for flat bar gravel races (leadville) and a lot of the US scene local scene that bike would probably be fine.


----------



## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Augustus-G said:


> The Epic is 67.5*, the EVO is 66.5*
> IINM, the Spark is 67*.
> The new BMC is 66.5*.
> 
> The Cervelo is closer to the old '18-'20 model Epic.


The Epic hardtail is 68.5...you have to compare apples to apples.


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## Augustus-G (Jun 21, 2019)

Stonerider said:


> The Epic hardtail is 68.5...you have to compare apples to apples.


True but the Epic H/T was last updated in '19. At the time ('18-'20) the F/S Epic was 69.5*.
Before they slacked out the F/S Epic in '21. It's (H/T) due for an update too.
I'll bet you Dimes to Dollars the next Epic H/T's HTA is closer to 67* than 69*.


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## chase2wheels (Oct 16, 2003)

Augustus-G said:


> I'll bet you Dimes to Dollars the next Epic H/T's HTA is closer to 67* than 69*.


And it will have room for 2.4 tires.


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## Brad (May 2, 2004)

Stonerider said:


> The Epic hardtail is 68.5...you have to compare apples to apples.


bingo


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Sina Frei, Eva Lechner amongst the others to enter the UCI Gravel World championships......


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

Is it possible to watch older (2012 and on) XCO races on Red Bull TV? I'd like to watch some of the older ones, especially from races in interesting locales, but I can't seem to find any full-length races for earlier than 2018 on the Red Bull app. It's so hard to navigate (as we all know) and I'm wondering if I"m missing something.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I can't figure it out. The app looks like it's there, and then it just sends me in a loop.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

I don't think the full races from before 2018 are available. There's a couple on YouTube. There used to be a torrent site that had cycling races and I used to get the races from there (back in 2009-2011 type time frame). I don't know what happened to that site though.


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## roth88 (7 mo ago)

mail_liam said:


> I don't think the full races from before 2018 are available. There's a couple on YouTube. There used to be a torrent site that had cycling races and I used to get the races from there (back in 2009-2011 type time frame). I don't know what happened to that site though.


Ugh, bummer. I'll see if I can find some other option...


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## mtballday (Aug 19, 2007)

roth88 said:


> Ugh, bummer. I'll see if I can find some other option...


Sometimes you can find them on cyclingtorrents.nl , which I guess might be legal depending on where you live.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

In his element on a different steed.....


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Looks like he has a choice of two bikes; his team showed a Grizl, then later there was a photo of the Endurace....and those Terreno Dry tyres don't look too wide.


----------



## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

^^ I'm thinking it would not be wise to click on that link. Reported it.


----------



## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Lahrs said:


> ^^ I'm thinking it would not be wise to click on that link. Reported it.


Sure. Now you say something


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Lahrs said:


> ^^ I'm thinking it would not be wise to click on that link. Reported it.


Nothing like a fresh serving of spam in the morning.


----------



## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

arca_tern said:


> Nothing like a fresh serving of spam in the morning.


My preference is for vegemite on toast and strong coffee.


----------



## arca_tern (Apr 6, 2004)

Lahrs said:


> My preference is for vegemite on toast and strong coffee.


haven't had the (dis?)pleasure of trying vegemite. Whatever gets you out the door and on the bike though!

Is there any speculation as to where the Norco XC folks end up?
I've met a couple of them, and they're great people. 
I hope Norco gave them enough advance notice so they could get in talks with prospective teams early on, not just at the last minute when budgets have been spent, and rosters are full.


----------



## Lahrs (Jun 7, 2008)

arca_tern said:


> haven't had the (dis?)pleasure of trying vegemite. Whatever gets you out the door and on the bike though!
> 
> Is there any speculation as to where the Norco XC folks end up?
> I've met a couple of them, and they're great people.
> I hope Norco gave them enough advance notice so they could get in talks with prospective teams early on, not just at the last minute when budgets have been spent, and rosters are full.


I hope so too! Purely speculation, I have zero direct knowledge (!!!), given a weekend hack like me heard the Norco rumours a month or more before official announcement, the team had at least a headstart on securing a spot for next year. No doubt one forum member here knows, but given how professional and understandably tight lipped he is on these things, we'll likely just have to wait to find out in the new year. Cheers.


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

arca_tern said:


> I hope Norco gave them enough advance notice so they could get in talks with prospective teams early on, not just at the last minute when budgets have been spent, and rosters are full.


The XC riders had known since June. Sounds like the DH squad got a last minute slap in the face.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Lahrs said:


> I hope so too! Purely speculation, I have zero direct knowledge (!!!), given a weekend hack like me heard the Norco rumours a month or more before official announcement, the team had at least a headstart on securing a spot for next year. No doubt one forum member here knows, but given how professional and understandably tight lipped he is on these things, we'll likely just have to wait to find out in the new year. Cheers.


A couple have found some really good homes, for others it is a work in progress.

You have to feel for Norco. They have been one of the most loyal and supportive teams in the sport. Their team manager is one of the nicest and most genuine human beings you will ever meet. I know they had full intention of running a DH team next year, they had hired a good technical coach and even had some contracts ready. But something happened around middle of August (I suspect supply chain realities hit them hard in the face) and they had to pull the DH team.

Sucks for the DH riders, but like the XC riders some of them have already found a home. And like the XC riders some are going to have to go back to the privateer route. And keep in mind Norco has cut their bike lines significanly and I suspect there are layoffs going on throughout the company.

But I can tell you Norco is far from the biggest train wreck going on out there. It is one of the crazier off seasons I have seen. Most of the stuff people will never hear about but it is absolutely wild out there.


----------



## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

I mean we are seeing it in the "normal world". Companies are freezing hires or laying off. All on the fear of a recession.

It's double bad for the bike industry - covid induced bike boom has ended, everything is coming back in stock at a time when the boom ended, and people are less likely to buy because fears of a recession.

Then throw Discovery and their absolutely terrible job of actually communicating anything. Bike companies don't know what they are buying and economic forces are telling them to reduce spending.


----------



## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

Speaking of Discovery and the World Cup, there's an interview with Simon Burney:

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574731306558177281
And the reason Brazil was dropped - and it makes sense, but I don't recall anybody mentioning why when the calendar was released.


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

don't know if anyone is interested, but gravel worlds is live on youtube right now.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

mik_git said:


> don't know if anyone is interested, but gravel worlds is live on youtube right now.


GCN+ as well (no ads).


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Havent seen any adds on youtube yet. So thats good


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

Ha well who woulda thunk that happened


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Course was laughable. Looked like fun for a local gravel race. Not anything called Gravel Championships.

Good on the winner for winning. She played all her cards right.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

The UCI are never going to sanction ultra long distance 'US style' Gravel races for World championships. While this course was picturesque, it didn't look massively challenging. The German rider was the least competent, and was losing time in the off-road corners - and having to make efforts to get back. The final km was interesting, however. It will be interesting to see how that pans out tomorrow - it's got MvdP all over it; a couple of tight hairpins one of which is uphill......

We know Veneto host it again next year, but hopefully they'll make a few changes.....

But, we got a worthy winner....


----------



## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

LMN said:


> A couple have found some really good homes, for others it is a work in progress.
> 
> Their team manager is one of the nicest and most genuine human beings you will ever meet.


Rumor has it that Norco has changed their tune on allowing riders to announce new teams. One in particular, we should be hearing about in the near future.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

Exmuhle said:


> The UCI are never going to sanction ultra long distance 'US style' Gravel races for World championships.


Not when the distance for a UCI sanctioned gravel event is between 50 and 150km.

Over here gravel races are put on by the local cycling clubs and are similar distances to their normal road races.
That means the existing infrastructure is able to support the event.
We also don't have the insane distances of gravel the US does.


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## AndrewHardtail (Nov 2, 2021)

NordieBoy said:


> Not when the distance for a UCI sanctioned gravel event is between 50 and 150km.


Is that distance range just for women? The men's UCI race tomorrow is 194 km.


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## NordieBoy (Sep 26, 2004)

AndrewHardtail said:


> Is that distance range just for women? The men's UCI race tomorrow is 194 km.


Weird. Can't find rules for the World Champs. Just for the World Cup.


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

Exmuhle said:


> Speaking of Discovery and the World Cup, there's an interview with Simon Burney:
> 
> __ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1574731306558177281
> And the reason Brazil was dropped - and it makes sense, but I don't recall anybody mentioning why when the calendar was released.


Can you please summarise the reason Brazil was dropped? Save me from listening to it.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

The jumps were too cool. UCI was worried it would ruin the image of an XC racer


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

NordieBoy said:


> Weird. Can't find rules for the World Champs. Just for the World Cup.


In all displines it is not unusuall for world champs to be longer.


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## smartyiak (Apr 29, 2009)

cassieno said:


> Course was laughable. Looked like fun for a local gravel race. Not anything called Gravel Championships.


They should have just used the Euro Champs course and saved the time and $$$ setting up something different.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Joe Handlebar said:


> GCN+ as well (no ads).


Rant on.

If that was a pre-cursor to the 2023 UCI XCO coverage, I am utterly unimpressed. Apparently the UCI supplied the footage (which was nothing short of confusing and horrible) and commentators were left to guess for themselves what the hell the UCI was feeding them. I for one was eternally grateful for the multiple, extended, gratuitous shots of the Citidella as I'm not sure I could have slept tonight seeing one less..... the race was insignificant in contrast and I was quite glad to see the aerial shots over and over and over rather than the excruciatingly boring racing on the "gravel" route that consisted less than 40% gravel.

Rant off.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

mail_liam said:


> Can you please summarise the reason Brazil was dropped? Save me from listening to it.


I might have to re-listen, but from memory, with a whole new team organising/producing/broadcasting the events, and most are based in France, it was felt having to go to Brazil first time, and possible teething problems, wasn't the best idea. It's likely it will be back the year after.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

jrob300 said:


> Rant on.
> 
> If that was a pre-cursor to the 2023 UCI XCO coverage, I am utterly unimpressed. Apparently the UCI supplied the footage (which was nothing short of confusing and horrible) and commentators were left to guess for themselves what the hell the UCI was feeding them. I for one was eternally grateful for the multiple, extended, gratuitous shots of the Citidella as I'm not sure I could have slept tonight seeing one less..... the race was insignificant in contrast and I was quite glad to see the aerial shots over and over and over rather than the excruciatingly boring racing on the "gravel" route that consisted less than 40% gravel.
> 
> Rant off.


I wouldn't worry, the UCI won't have much to do with running the new World Cup; ESO/Discovery will be doing everything. If you thought this was bad, you obviously didn't see the XC Marathon Worlds....Now that was poor.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

jrob300 said:


> Rant on.
> 
> If that was a pre-cursor to the 2023 UCI XCO coverage, I am utterly unimpressed. Apparently the UCI supplied the footage (which was nothing short of confusing and horrible) and commentators were left to guess for themselves what the hell the UCI was feeding them. I for one was eternally grateful for the multiple, extended, gratuitous shots of the Citidella as I'm not sure I could have slept tonight seeing one less..... the race was insignificant in contrast and I was quite glad to see the aerial shots over and over and over rather than the excruciatingly boring racing on the "gravel" route that consisted less than 40% gravel.
> 
> Rant off.


I guess I'm not sure how exactly my mention of it on GCN triggered this....but... it is entirely normal for the race organizer to provide footage, especially in the road racing world. Since gravel worlds was not a circuit, broadcasting in that mode (like a road race) would be expected. The footage is used by whomever broadcasts it. So the UCI provided images are the exact same ones seen in the YT feed (or Eurosport, RAI, Discovery+, etc...), just different commentators. Since XC is on a short circuit (or a DH course) I wouldn't expect to see a similar model for broadcasting. I would bet video feeds for the upcoming seasons are going to be similar to RB's. The issue for me (potentially) will be the mind numbing monotonous commentator(s), none of which will be Rob Warner.


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Having only one commentator really isn't great. Rob by himself would also be boring. Need at least two too keep it mildly interesting.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Joe Handlebar said:


> I guess I'm not sure how exactly my mention of it on GCN triggered this....


You simply reminded me that I could watch it on GCN +. I had been watching the YouTube live feed and it was unwatchable. Not only was the UCI feed horrid, the commentator was a moron. I assumed that it was from GCN +, but then I got curious and popped over to their feed and at least the commentators were knowledgeable enough to mention that the UCI feed was crap (they use nicer language because they'd like to keep their jobs.)


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

jrob300 said:


> You simply reminded me that I could watch it on GCN +. I had been watching the YouTube live feed and it was unwatchable. Not only was the UCI feed horrid, the commentator was a moron. I assumed that it was from GCN +, but then I got curious and popped over to their feed and at least the commentators were knowledgeable enough to mention that the UCI feed was crap (they use nicer language because they'd like to keep their jobs.)


Lol...gotcha. Yes, the GCN folks were better.


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## Joe Handlebar (Apr 12, 2016)

cassieno said:


> Having only one commentator really isn't great. Rob by himself would also be boring. Need at least two too keep it mildly interesting.


Presuming either one of them are mildly interesting.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

At least you had cmmentators. In Canada we watch through the Flo bikes and yesterday, at least, it was silence.


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

It’s funny reading all of the US media complaints about the UCI gravel worlds. The basic thought that the US-centric idea of what gravel is, or what the “spirit of gravel” is, should define it for the entire world is so absurd to me. 

It’s a f***ing bike race. The sanctimonious claptrap is laughable. If you want to go ride around Kansas for 12 hours, great. The UCI organized and held a bike race. A lot of really fast people participated. Sorry it didn’t fit in with YOUR idea of what gravel should be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## PlanB (Nov 22, 2007)

If this kind of racing is going to become a “legitimate” branch of racing I feel like they need to get away from calling it “gravel”. I mean we all know what it means (sort of…) but it sounds kinda silly when you really think about it. Road racing is not called “asphalt”… I much prefer “All-Road”. Something like that. Now’s the time to define it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mail_liam (Jul 22, 2011)

jrob300 said:


> Rant on.
> 
> If that was a pre-cursor to the 2023 UCI XCO coverage, I am utterly unimpressed. Apparently the UCI supplied the footage (which was nothing short of confusing and horrible) and commentators were left to guess for themselves what the hell the UCI was feeding them. I for one was eternally grateful for the multiple, extended, gratuitous shots of the Citidella as I'm not sure I could have slept tonight seeing one less..... the race was insignificant in contrast and I was quite glad to see the aerial shots over and over and over rather than the excruciatingly boring racing on the "gravel" route that consisted less than 40% gravel.
> 
> Rant off.


I wouldn't be super concerned about that as the indicator for the XCC/XCO coverage. This had the hallmarks of XCM coverage, i.e. much more difficult to provide quality footage for. It was head and shoulders above any gravel coverage.

There will definitely be things we don't like, and some things that they get wrong at the start, but I think it'll be a bit more like World Champ's or Euro Champ's with multiple fixed camera's.

Commentary wise, I agree, I hope they have two really good commentator's in mind that are MTB specific. Ideally with a good mix of knowledge and charisma.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> It’s funny reading all of the US media complaints about the UCI gravel worlds. The basic thought that the US-centric idea of what gravel is, or what the “spirit of gravel” is, should define it for the entire world is so absurd to me.
> 
> It’s a f***ing bike race. The sanctimonious claptrap is laughable. If you want to go ride around Kansas for 12 hours, great. The UCI organized and held a bike race. A lot of really fast people participated. Sorry it didn’t fit in with YOUR idea of what gravel should be.
> 
> ...


Irony. This post drips with it.

Sanctomonious - _def. adjective_ pious, smug, hypocritical, pi _(Brit. slang)_, too good to be true, self-righteous, self-satisfied, goody-goody _(informal)_, unctuous, holier-than-thou, priggish, pietistic, canting, pharisaical


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## RexRacerX (10 mo ago)

I know the season is basically over, which means thread drift (if acceptable) can bring some welcome discussion, but can we please not have this become a discussion of the definition of gravel? Or anything gravel, for that matter.

why did I just get the urge to check pinkbike?


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## Le Duke (Mar 23, 2009)

jrob300 said:


> Irony. This post drips with it.
> 
> Sanctomonious - _def. adjective_ pious, smug, hypocritical, pi _(Brit. slang)_, too good to be true, self-righteous, self-satisfied, goody-goody _(informal)_, unctuous, holier-than-thou, priggish, pietistic, canting, pharisaical


If you’re going to define the word for us, at least spell it correctly. 

Also, how can I be “holier-than-thou” if I don’t inject my own personal beliefs about what is or isn’t “gravel” or the “spirit of gravel” into the conversation? I’m taking no sides here. But the UCI is bad, US-version of gravel is good stuff is getting a bit old. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Le Duke said:


> If you’re going to define the word for us, at least spell it correctly.


🤦‍♂️ Now *THAT’S funny.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

I’ve watched/followed a few of the big US gravel races, and found them interesting/entertaining. I watched part of the UCI Gravel World Championships and found it to be quite odd, and I’m not sure why. 

Maybe because it was like a road race without teams or team tactics. Or because it was like a mountain bike race without any technical challenges. It’s almost as if they took the worst parts of road racing and the worst parts of mountain biking and combined them to make once peculiar new event. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

And after winning the Gravel world championships, PFP drove to southern France to win the Roc D'Azur XC race on Sunday morning.....Incroyable!! I did see an interview, and she can't comment on her future - but it might be pretty soon.


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## MI-XC (Mar 14, 2018)

PlanB said:


> If this kind of racing is going to become a “legitimate” branch of racing I feel like they need to get away from calling it “gravel”. I mean we all know what it means (sort of…) but it sounds kinda silly when you really think about it. Road racing is not called “asphalt”… I much prefer “All-Road”. Something like that. Now’s the time to define it.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Those that are hip and cool call it “unroad” (#BWR).


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

MI-XC said:


> Those that are hip and cool call it “unroad” (#BWR).


This article is about the winning bikes from the 2022 Gravel World Championships:

Canyon Ultimate CFR road bike with 33mm tyres squeezed in.









A road bike wins the gravel worlds | Gianni Vermeersch's gravel-tuned Canyon Ultimate CFR


When does a road bike become a gravel bike?




www.bikeradar.com


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

PFP to Ineos now official


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## mik_git (Feb 4, 2004)

yeah they were talking about it on GCN the other day like it was official, wasnt sure if they knew or if they jsut figured it would happen.


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## Stonerider (Feb 25, 2008)

Raikzz said:


> PFP to Ineos now official


I also read she will be doing some CX races this winter. Women's CX is exciting!


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## uintah (Apr 21, 2020)

Stonerider said:


> I also read she will be doing some CX races this winter. Women's CX is exciting!


She flat out stated that she wants to win the Euro and world championships. Pretty bold.


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## WR304 (Jul 9, 2004)

Pauline Ferrand-Prevot joins INEOS Grenadiers’ off-road roster | The INEOS Grenadiers


The INEOS Grenadiers are delighted to announce that Pauline Ferrand-Prévot will be joining the team on a two-year contract from 2023, supporting the 30-year-old French rider’s target to win gold at the 2024 Olympics in Paris.




www.ineosgrenadiers.com


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## carlostruco (May 22, 2009)

I guess its time for the 2023 thread. I already created it with the same title.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

uintah said:


> She flat out stated that she wants to win the Euro and world championships. Pretty bold.


The Euros are at Namur, which is the closest CX comes to XC MTB....


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## ShortTravelMag (Dec 15, 2005)

She almost won Euro mtb, imagine if she didn't have bike problems that day. 4 world champs, euro mtb champ, euro cx and world champ. In one year. That would truly be insane.


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## gat3keeper (Jan 24, 2015)

What brand will Paulene ride in Ineos team?

Sent from my 2107113SG using Tapatalk


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## cassieno (Apr 28, 2011)

Probably BMC. That's what Pidcock runs.and what she is used to. Supposedly Pinerello is developing a mtb for him, potentially she would ride that.


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## celswick (Mar 5, 2020)

cassieno said:


> Probably BMC. That's what Pidcock runs.and what she is used to. Supposedly Pinerello is developing a mtb for him, potentially she would ride that.


They probably ride the same size frame. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## paramount3 (Jul 13, 2014)

MI-XC said:


> Those that are hip and cool call it “unroad” (#BWR).


How about CXM? Cyclocross marathon? Whatever. It doesn't really matter. It was an interesting bike race run on mixed surfaces, like Paris-Rubaix or BWR. I like to watch XC racing, but also like to watch world cup downhill, as well as road racing, and cyclocross, and gravel when it's covered. Each type of bike racing has its own particular points of interest.

To those who sneer at the race because it could be won on a road bike with 33 mm tires, the trick in these kinds of races is to be able to ride fast on the pavement sections, yet still be able to handle the bike on the rougher bit. That usually means riding "as little bike as possible"--and thus is demanding of the bike handling skills of the rider. Probably more so than for the easier XCM courses run on MTBs, for example the XCM worlds a couple of years ago in Turkey.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

It's funny you mentioned XCM & 'Gravel' as they seem rather similar, depending on the courses, of course. I wonder once the Gravel World Cup/series becomes established we'll see any crossover from XCM riders.....


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## chomxxo (Oct 15, 2008)

Exmuhle said:


> It's funny you mentioned XCM & 'Gravel' as they seem rather similar, depending on the courses, of course. I wonder once the Gravel World Cup/series becomes established we'll see any crossover from XCM riders.....


Interesting you bring that up as I hear the XCM courses in Europe are quite boring. In the USA, XC Marathons are endlessly interesting and varied. It’s hard to find a local, state, or national org that knows how to run a proper UCI-spec XCO race, but yeah, UCI XCM in Europe is pretty much a gravel race already.

My big question is, what’s the next hipster, low-skill subgenre? I’ve lived through cyclocross, thought I’d outlast singlespeed but it dies hard, fat bikes, and now gravel. I’m twisting my mustache in anticipation.


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## Raikzz (Jul 19, 2014)

ShortTravelMag said:


> She almost won Euro mtb, imagine if she didn't have bike problems that day. 4 world champs, euro mtb champ, euro cx and world champ. In one year. That would truly be insane.


I believe CX worlds are going to be the toughest challenge for her, Vos and Brand are proper powerhouses


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Raikzz said:


> I believe CX worlds are going to be the toughest challenge for her, Vos and Brand are proper powerhouses


Same Vos that came in with the bronze in 2015 when PFP won gold at CX worlds, right?  j/k I think the descriptor "powerhouse" has been earned by all 3 of them, and it should be a wildly competitive race.

Note: some number of pages back I purported that Vos had perhaps the strongest case for women's cycling G.O.A.T. While I still stand by that assessment, PFP's last couple of months are making a serious dent. Vos has her career consistency still going for her in her palmares, but if PFP has another year like 2022 that discussion is going to become a pick'em.


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## jrob300 (Sep 25, 2014)

Circlip said:


> PFP's last couple of months are making a serious dent. If PFP has another year like 2022 that discussion is going to become a pick'em.


These are the things that in the modern era of cycling makes one ask questions..... If something seems too good to be true.... thanks a ton Lance, et al.


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## LMN (Sep 8, 2007)

Circlip said:


> Same Vos that came in with the bronze in 2015 when PFP won gold at CX worlds, right?  j/k I think the descriptor "powerhouse" has been earned by all 3 of them, and it should be a wildly competitive race.
> 
> Note: some number of pages back I purported that Vos had perhaps the strongest case for women's cycling G.O.A.T. While I still stand by that assessment, PFP's last couple of months are making a serious dent. Vos has her career consistency still going for her in her palmares, but if PFP has another year like 2022 that discussion is going to become a pick'em.


The idea of GOAT in todays multi-displine cycling world is tough. Vos palmares are incredible and she is absolutely an amazing racer. But she sort get her teeth kicked in when she mountain biked, she was quite good on non-technical courses but was a non-factor in world cup racing. Where-as Pauline is a champion in all majore cycling displines, and although she no longer road races, her 2014 road season was very impressive.

But, in my opinion Pauline will have to show a bit more longevity, to earn the title of goat. And I can't help but feel that her CX plans are risky, and might result in her burning very brightly for a short period of time.


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## Exmuhle (Nov 7, 2019)

I'd never write PFP off, she's proven she knows how to peak for championships. Saying that, the Euros at Namur should suit her more, one wonder if she's doing any prep races beforehand.
The Worlds are at Hoogerheide, which isn't usually challenging; if it's dry, then it turns into a road race, and that is Vos territory. However, if it's wet & muddy, then Brand is the powerhouse, and Vos is nowhere near as effective.

Without looking it up, I can't recall PFP doing too many CX races since her unfortunate crash with Neff, at Hoogerheide in 2018......

Edit; having looked it up, she's done a handful of races, but none since early January 2020.


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