# Speaking of BIG Panniers



## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

When you want to stay out a while big panniers are a must. Sure, you can pack light, but if you were to go with huge panniers does anyone have any suggestions?

Here is one that I like...









Thanks...


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## Harryonaspot (Oct 5, 2004)

Ortlieb .Proven and waterproof


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## TheirOnlyPortrait (Dec 30, 2014)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> When you want to stay out a while big panniers are a must. Sure, you can pack light, but if you were to go with huge panniers does anyone have any suggestions?
> 
> Here is one that I like...
> 
> Thanks...


Hola OldschoolReloaded,

How long is staying out a while? 
For 5 month on the road (carrying a portable photo studio with a printer) I'm only planning to add micro-panniers (Arkel's Dry Lites or Porcelain Rocket's) to a "classic" bikepacking setup (handlebar bag, gas tank bag, salsa anything cages' bags, frame bag, seat bag, & a small backpack).

Arkel - Dry-Lites - Ultralite Saddle bags - ONLY 454gr!!

Introducing Micro Panniers | Custom Bicycle Bags - The Porcelain Rocket

Saludos,
Federico


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Well more than 5 months...
Thanks for the links...Arkel makes good stuff. I will need to put together my gear and see how much space I will need, but I am sure that big will most likely be the direction I will need to go.


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## catsh16 (Jul 11, 2006)

My XtraCycle (freeradical extension... see 'cargo bike')is hands down my favorite touring rig... massive capacity. Its been on some nasty trail rides... including most recently the Kokopelli Trail. 
For road touring, I'd be very interested in the XtraCycle Edgerunner. I also have a Yuba Mundo... it hasn't been out on tour yet. 
If you are sticking with a standard Panier system - I'd just go with the Standard Orlieb bags and strap a dry bag ontop thus avoiding the complex bags you pictured above - too many zippers!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> When you want to stay out a while big panniers are a must.


I don't think that's a given at all. So many people have toured for month after months with soft bikepacking bags.

Personally I'm good for 7 days between resupply without resorting to anything beyond soft frame bags.

Lots of people also tour with 4 panniers and a bar bag in the traditional "fully loaded" format, but that is a choice not a necessity.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

catsh16 said:


> If you are sticking with a standard Panier system - I'd just go with the Standard Orlieb bags and strap a dry bag ontop thus avoiding the complex bags you pictured above - too many zippers!


What he said.


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## big_papa_nuts (Mar 29, 2010)

I fail to understand how duration can have such a vast effect on bag size. I have actually had this conversation with multiple people with traditional touring setups and still don't understand it. 

Sure, if I were going out for multiple seasons I'd need a few more clothes but I feel like I could easily fit everything I'd need in a couple small panniers and my normal BP bags. I'm actually looking for a reason to get some Rogue Panda Silos, though waterproof would be nice.

But for shear size I think the Jandd Mountain Expeditions take the cake, and gosh do they make for an unpleasant looking ride. I can just imagine one with nothing more then a full sized pillow and still space to spare.


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## Crankyone (Dec 8, 2014)

Someone on the forum mentioned that one of the weaknesses of a waterproof bag like the Ortlieb and others is that the stuff inside that is wet from sweat or rain while out of the bag, never has a chance to dry. 
Why isn't anyone making bags from Gore-tex or one of the knock offs? Would that allow the internal freight to dry out?


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

I guess if you want to take lots of stuff you have to haul it around... I am in the middle, I am trying to downsize my stuff but I take lots of photography gear and electronics. These days quality equipment is so small and light that you can get by nicely with minimal stuff.

One thing that saves weight is trying to mount the stuff on your bike without panniers and that also reduces the need for racks which further saves weight. I got rid of my front rack and replaced with a homemade bent aluminum minimalist "rack" that just allows me to strap some stuff sackss up against the side of the fork -- huge weight saving, plus it has the advantage that the weight is right up near the steering pivot so there is less inertia which slows down steering.

Strap stuff to your handlebars, and there are little bags that strap to your top tube. Get a frame bag, that is valuable space, put your water bottle somewhere else like on your front fork or under the downtube if you have the brazeons. Some people like the seatbags but I still prefer the rear rack and panniers because I can throw stuff on top in between and I like the different compartments of rear panniers. But if going ultralight I might be pursuaded to get rid of the rear rack and get a seatbag. I guess you should always try to push yourself outside your comfort zone...

And of course a small backpack isn't too much of a burden and allows you to carry stuff easily away from the bike. It's fun trying to downsize your gear, part of the challenge is doing it cheaply.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

When preparing my first (and only) cross country I set out the basics for the trip, tent, bag, pad, stove...ect ect. I also carried a notebook as I was blogging, and since I was traveling roads that barely had towns I carried a Goal Zero. Well this overfilled all the room that panniers had in a hurry, so I made a trailer. That was a mistake. But I have learned from that experience and my gear is now much more compact. I am waiting on an ultralight quilt to arrive that will pack to the size of a grapefruit. Still, for me the bulk of the stuff, rather than the shear weight, is what fills the pack. If I was able to credit card tour that would be much easier, but since my plan is to be in the back-country as much as possible I need more stuff. Who knows though...I am now trying ascertain just how small the pack can be, which will ultimately dictate what I can bring. The thing I learned with bike camping is that there are days when the wind was so bad I could not ride, period. When in a camp for a few days you need supplies, much less the water you need to carry. So I err on the side of caution and get the biggest pack. 

Thanks for all your comments....


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

Years ago, I toured a little with "heavy" gear. Big tent, stove, extra clothes, etc. Made for some great camping, but less fun on the bike.

When I started ultra-racing, I stripped down to just the essentials. Bivy bag, no tent, no extra clothes, etc. Makes for great riding, but uncomfortable camping.

Both styles are great, depending on what floats your boat for a particular moment.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

TobyGadd said:


> Both styles are great, depending on what floats your boat for a particular moment.


And with modern UL gear you can have all the comfort of the old school heavy gear days in a compact light package that rides well as long as you are not racing the clock.


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## She&I (Jan 4, 2010)

Crankyone said:


> Someone on the forum mentioned that one of the weaknesses of a waterproof bag like the Ortlieb and others is that the stuff inside that is wet from sweat or rain while out of the bag, never has a chance to dry.
> Why isn't anyone making bags from Gore-tex or one of the knock offs? Would that allow the internal freight to dry out?


Lash wet stuff outside and get it over with. If it's wet out nothing will dry in a packed bag. I'll keep my bombproof Ortleibs, thanks. Even without the mesh pockets.


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## Tinman (Aug 18, 2013)

Guess I would look at the Arkel's or Jandd for a mountain bike frame.

That said, I have plenty of room with my Porcelain Rocket Micro Panniers which are very light weight, 20-24 liters each and handle Any single track out there along route and strapping anything else on top my rack if needed.

More room needed yet (though it has not come up) my back pack for some more light clothes,food,etc. 

I like certain panniers made for MTB's/Adventure tour,etc. and Certain frame/bike pack bags yet,,,,,,,,,,the last thing I want personally is big , heavy, suitcase panniers on an adventure tour bike outing............which posting on a mountain bike forum.........is certainly the normal mindset

BTW- those Vaudes you posted really are not what I would call "big"....they look like front panniers to me with a fitted bag a top and they are a little to Urban/Slick for a Adventure Tour - If you want something like that have a look at Arkel MTB specific and Jandd stuff = made for MTB . It's quite a bit better .......dirt/mtb specific than those........if your really going on a big expedition of some sort


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Anyone have experience with Arkel's Dolphin 48 touring bags? I am concerned about heel strike and whether or not you can slide them back far enough to prevent it. 

Thanks....


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## TobyGadd (Sep 9, 2009)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Anyone have experience with Arkel's Dolphin 48 touring bags? I am concerned about heel strike and whether or not you can slide them back far enough to prevent it.
> Thanks....


Heel clearance depends on shoe size, frame type/type, rack size/type, etc. What works great for one person might not for another. If you can find a pair locally so you can try before buying is always a good idea.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

TobyGadd said:


> Heel clearance depends on shoe size, frame type/type, rack size/type, etc. What works great for one person might not for another. If you can find a pair locally so you can try before buying is always a good idea.


Yeah that stands to reason...I do have big feet. But this is why I want to see if someone actually owns these.


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

OldschoolRelo, G'day.

I've Vaude Roadmaster panniers. They're similar to those that you posted (mine are Black and Anthracite) but mine do not take the zip-on top compartment. I like to ride for up to 8 weeks at a time, without a need to resupply.

I looked at both Arkel (good quality but too expensive in Oz) and the Ortleib roll top panniers (too many failures off-road with the Ortleibs that I've read about while researching them), so I chose the Vaudes because of the price and the seperate pockets that I could return specific items to and their apparent fine quality. The three outer pockets are a convenient time saver. The panniers come with rain/dust jackets. When a jacket gets damaged, from stacking the bike, or caught on rocks, I repair any tears or holes with yacht spinnacker tape, that I purchased from a boat chandler or marine marine supplier. I do use high-tech waterproof inners for each of the panniers ... 50 cent garbage bin liners.

Maintenance day. Repairing holes on a rain/dust jacket using spinnaker tape.










Vaude Road Master Bar Box with removable map window.










I've had the Vaudes for about 5 years. I try to keep them clean and dust free because I carry several bits of camera gear. They've seen much work. I've taken several long trips mostly on Australia's Bicentennial National Trail and they have not failed in any aspect. Not in the fabric or the webbing, none of the rivets on the back plate have pulled or loosened, the back plate with hangers and fittings have not faultered or distorted nor the zips (there are 3 zips to three individual pockets, a choke string and pair of pull-downs closes the main compartment) nor one loose stitch on a seam. I've 4 Roadmaster panniers and a Vaude Road Master Bar Box. The panniers came with different hanger inserts to cater for different diameter tubing of pannier racks.

I haul an Extrawheel Voyager Solo trailer (only 2.5kg), for the two heaviest panniers (about 25kg), which keeps the majority of the weight off the bike.



















Formally dressed, with the rain/dust coats on .... I've a hi-vis pannier pig.










You mentioned heal strike, the hangers can be slid forward or back on the pannier back plate and then tightened, to give good clearance.

Warren.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks Warren...I would have liked to have read your review a few days back. I just bought the Ortlieb Classic Roll-top panniers in red. Honestly, I just got a good deal on them and decided to go that route. They seem fine, and I have used a roll-top backpack for years so I have some experience with the design. I got the back-rollers and the front-rollers and also got a small Ortlieb Rack Pack from across the pond, which will mount across the top of the rear bags. I have test mounted the bags and they don't mount that well to my Jandd racks, as Ortlieb does not have an adapter that fits these racks tightly. I am going to do a test load soon and may post pictures. 

Thanks for all the pics....good riding.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Wild Wassa said:


> the Ortleib roll top panniers (too many failures off-road with the Ortleibs that I've read about while researching them),












I've used Ortliebs off road on many tours with no issues. The one tweak I do to the for offroad riding is "enhance" the lower mounting hook so they stay on the bike despite taking a hammering. There are a number of ways to do this depending on the specific Ortlieb pannier.










I was sent a number of Arkel panniers for testing/review and could have kept them for below cost, but I preferred the Ortliebs enough to pay full retail for them instead.


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

OldschoolRelo, sorry, bad timing by me. That's typical of me.

The Ortleibs have had an improvement in quality of the mounting system in the last couple of years, from reading Aussie touring sites. I'd probably buy Ortliebs now, but back them (5 years ago), the reports that I read, like the one below, were not at all flattering to the Ortlieb's lack of toughness for off-roading. Is is possible that riders had exceeded the manufacturer's advised cargo weights, which was not ever mentioned. I stay stricktly within Vaude's maximum advised cargo weights for the panniers, bar box and on Tioga's beam rack and Extrawheel trailer.

Bicycle Touring: Review: Panniers: #52: "Re: Ortlieb Front & Rear Roller Panniers", posted by Erin Arnold Barkley*(Biking_Barkleys) on Sat 11 Jul 2009 23:45 (US/Pacific)

Vik, there's nothing like a vegi slot for big panniers, and a hike, hey? When I have the panniers on the Extrawheel trailer they sit so low, which is excellent for the trailer's stability, but pulling off the track looking for a campsite or spot to have a break, I have to make sure that the grass is short.

Warren.


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

I've read that review before. I have the same generation of Ortliebs with no issues. Some people seem to break **** in ways I can't comprehend.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Vik
Thanks for the nice pics, good to see the Ortliebs are doing good. So what is the enhancement?


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Warren,
I looked in to the xtra trailer but find that they don't make a bracket that fits a Pugsley fat bike. I have also seen videos where the trailer breaks away from the bike. I wish that they made a Xtra Wheel in a 29er too.
How has your trailer held up.

Daryl


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Vik
> Thanks for the nice pics, good to see the Ortliebs are doing good. So what is the enhancement?


I have the generation of Ortliebs that are discussed in that review Warren posted so it's possible some of this doesn't apply to current generation panniers.

*Rack Adapters*

- don't bother using the plastic rack adapters if your rack rails are smaller than the Ortlieb upper hooks
- just wrap the rails with electrical tape until you get the correct diameter
- this protects your rack from any wear of its finish

*Lower Hooks*

- for off road riding on really rough surfaces I do something to keep the lower hooks engaged so the pannier stays firmly attached to the rack. Depending on the rack and model of pannier you are using you can do one of these:

-- zip tie - cheap easy and fast, but pannier stays on bike...good for remote bikepacking where you are not taking bags into hotel every day
-- adding second hook which can be bought separately....allows for quick release of bag
-- using a strap with a buckle around bag and rack...simple and bags come off quickly

It's important that you take a few minutes when you get your bags to look at the attachment adjustments and look at your rack to figure out the best placement.


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## Wild Wassa (Jun 4, 2009)

OldschoolReloaded said:


> Warren ... how has your trailer held up.


I'm into my second trailer in five years. I damaged the first one, soon after buying it. It took me a few days to set the caliper tension well for off-roading, by trial and review. Most likely, not dialling that calibration in quickly, contributed to the damage. The trailer was damaged when I was going too fast (going faster than the manufacturer's advice). On a steep descent I rode into pea gravel at the bottom of a hill ... and lost the plot.

The damage from that accident happened when one of the ferrules dug in. I should get this fixed, the bend could be straightened and strengthened and a new stainless steel ferrule machined and fitted. As you probably know, the frames are light and are made from some kind of aircraft alloy.

The new and the damaged trailer.












> I have also seen videos where the trailer breaks away from the bike.


Despite how this may appear, supposedly it is a good thing in an accident, to quote the manufacturer. If all is well, the trailer shouldn't break away on rough ground or tight cornering, if the load is well balanced, within the manufacturer's advised maximum weight and if the connecting caliper has been correctly set by the the rider. Obviously if the trailer breaks away, for what appears to have been no good reason, then the calliper spread is not tight enough and badly set. Fitting the calliper to the Extrawheel quick release skewer, and the two ferrules on the trailer frame, takes a bit of strength. If it doesn't then the settings are too wide and should be adjusted.



















Not owning a fat bike, I'm not up to speed with what bike formats Extrawheel fully caters for. But, I thought that Exrtrawheel had expanded their range of fittings. On the _crazyguyonabike_ site, or one of the fatbike forums in Oz, I thought that a rider had an Extrawheel trailer on a fatbike. I'll go and do a search.

Warren.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

They make a fatbike compatible version. It will go on a Pugsley if you use a quick release skewer and add spacers to offset the offset. If you use a solid axle it will not work. It will also go on a symmetrical 170mm hub with the optional longer QR skewer.

However, the trailer itself is not fat and will still only accept around a 2.3" tire maximum. Also, the fat attachment fork was designed when the Endomorph was the fat tire of choice and is not large enough to take any tires bigger than that. My Big Fat Larry just rubs the center ridge, so if it had more tread wear it would clear it by nothing to a millimeter. Width wise, it clears the BFL. There are rumours and a couple prototypes of fat versions but they are not for sale.

Canning Stock Route: riding a bicycle | bicyclenomad

But you don't need a fat tired trailer, unless you want to be able to swap out a wheel with your fatbike. The trailer tracks fine even in loose sand. It is not heavy enough and is not driven so it floats over sand just fine.


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## OldschoolReloaded (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks guys...
I just did a dry run on packing the Ortliebs and they seem to hold more than enough. I ordered some Mountain House and Backpackers Pantry and will see how much space I will use up once it is all loaded. I have towed a trailer in the past and really don't like doing it as it the weight of the trailer was prohibitive. I won't get into all that, but say that I really wanted the Xtra Trailer to work, but as Mark has pointed out, they have not advanced it far enough to work really well with a fat bike. I was even considering selling my Pugsley for a ECR so that tires and trailer would work better. What I really wanted was a Xtra Trailer that would take a 29 inch tire (Knards). Like Warren has said, getting that weight so low does work much better.


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## Mark_BC (Sep 19, 2012)

They make one that goes on a 29" wheel, whether that includes the Knard or not I don't know.

https://www.biketrailershop.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=1377


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