# I want to make a movie about Repack



## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

In the last couple of years there have been two skateboarding movies, "Dogtown and the Z boys" and "Lords of Dogtown." The first was a documentary, the second a re-creation of events, using actors. Both explored the events that led to vertical skating.

I want to make a movie about Repack. It was a supremely unlikely and crazy event, conducted by a cast of colorful characters. Repack was the event that drew together the people who would start this sport, and it is amazing to me that we got away with this highly organized, competitive event on public land without ever being busted. I think I could make a movie that every mountain biker and half the DeadHeads in the world would go see and then buy on DVD, and that should be enough people to cover the $8-10 million it would cost to make it.

Why am I posting this? I'm telling everybody. I'm telling strangers on the street. I'm telling riders I meet on the trail. I figure that if I tell a million people I want to make a movie about this, one of them might be the guy.

Are any of you the guy?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Movie*

There are two mountain bike history movies being filmed right now. I would love to see you make one though, since you helped start it all. I kow that one film is an independant, and one has alot of money behind it. Well, alot relatively speaking.


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## ssmike (Jan 21, 2004)

Recently, there were a couple of movies that were made that made a big impression on me. Both documentaries and both were on topics where there's not a huge amount of film, let alone video, available. And they both set me on the edge of my seat while watching them.

Check out Joe Kid on a Stingray http://www.joekidonastingray.com/
and Riding Giants http://www.sonyclassics.com/ridinggiants/ Stacy Peralta (he also did Dogtown and Z-Boys).

Considering there are many more people who mountain bike than surf, I think the field is ripe to do a movie on Repack (and possibly how it spawned the mountain bike fad  ) would be awesome. I can imagine a shot of a klunker bombing down Repack and a fade into a shot of Tomac blazing down the Kamikazee...

Go for it. If I had 8-10 million...


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> There are two mountain bike history movies being filmed right now. I would love to see you make one though, since you helped start it all. I kow that one film is an independant, and one has alot of money behind it. Well, alot relatively speaking.


history or fiction? i've got a screenplay done myself and can't find any producers interested in the theme. but then i'm not in america and mountain bike here is a joke.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> In the last couple of years there have been two skateboarding movies, "Dogtown and the Z boys" and "Lords of Dogtown." The first was a documentary, the second a re-creation of events, using actors. Both explored the events that led to vertical skating.
> 
> I want to make a movie about Repack. It was a supremely unlikely and crazy event, conducted by a cast of colorful characters. Repack was the event that drew together the people who would start this sport, and it is amazing to me that we got away with this highly organized, competitive event on public land without ever being busted. I think I could make a movie that every mountain biker and half the DeadHeads in the world would go see and then buy on DVD, and that should be enough people to cover the $8-10 million it would cost to make it.
> 
> ...


whta are you looking for? the producer, i guess.. like i said, i have already written a script, no on the repack story specifically but on the challenges of the mountain bike ride and how it stands as a metaphor for the eternal search for balance, elegance under pressure and courage to go for it.. not to mention the love for bikes..


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Movie*



ssmike said:


> Recently, there were a couple of movies that were made that made a big impression on me. Both documentaries and both were on topics where there's not a huge amount of film, let alone video, available. And they both set me on the edge of my seat while watching them.
> 
> Check out Joe Kid on a Stingray http://www.joekidonastingray.com/
> and Riding Giants http://www.sonyclassics.com/ridinggiants/ Stacy Peralta (he also did Dogtown and Z-Boys).
> ...


Not to hijack Charlie's thread, but I have been waiting to see Joe Kid on a Stingray. I don't know when it is coming to Denver, or when it is coming to DVD.

The two movies I heard about were about history.


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## Mattias_Hellöre (Oct 2, 2005)

If you ever make a movie, make subtitles to that in same time for us all that are hearing impaired and not familiar with the spoken english language.

Only my 0.02 cents.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

*I want to do the Repack story specifically*



colker1 said:


> whta are you looking for? the producer, i guess.. like i said, i have already written a script, no on the repack story specifically but on the challenges of the mountain bike ride and how it stands as a metaphor for the eternal search for balance, elegance under pressure and courage to go for it.. not to mention the love for bikes..


I do not want to do a general movie about mountain biking. I want to tell the story of the events in Fairfax, and the Repack race.

Just for the entertainment value, let me tell the forum how Gary Fisher and I met. It would be a crucial scene in my movie.

I was spending time with a DeadHead girl named Rose, and she mentioned that there was a guy in the Dead "Party Krew" who was just like me. By that, she meant a hippie bicycle fanatic. One day I was out riding, and here are two guys, one has to be the guy she called "Spider," all arms and legs and hair nearly to the waist. So I rode up and asked if he was Spider.

He said that some people called him that, but his name was Gary. Okay Gary, where are you guys riding? Let's ride.

He introduced me to his companion, who he called Marmaduke, but explained that his real name was John Dawson. Marmaduke played in a band called the New Riders of the Purple Sage with Jerry Garcia, and they were on their way to the Grateful Dead office to look at art for the cover of their first album.

Awesome, I said, I'm a roadie for the Sons of Champlin, I know all those guys, let's go.

So ten minutes after I met them, we're sitting in the Dead office looking at drawings and photos with Marmaduke and the bass player, Dave Torbert, and Gary and I are being asked what we think. We don't even know each other, and we're looking at each other like, "Why do these guys CARE what we think? It's THEIR album." But we liked a couple of the pictures on the table, we said so, and believe it or not, these were eventually chosen for the cover.

Business done, we head out for a ride, and meet Garcia on his way in. Marmaduke tells him we're going to ride 15-20 miles, and Garcia says something to the effect that we certainly will not run into him out there.

About six months later Gary moved into the house I was renting in San Anselmo, and for about the next 12 years we were joined at the hip. Those 12 years were an amazing adventure, and eventually we helped change the world.

I think a lot of mountain bikers would come and see my movie, if I ever get to make it.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

*Fat Tire Flyer, the movie?*

CK,

This is a good idea.

I talked to my son today. He works in the Ski Porn business. The company he works for, Matchstick Productions (www.skimovie.com) also does Bike Porn, Kayak Porn, well you get the idea.

His first question was "is there any footage"? I told him that all the old crew was pretty much still available and that enough bikes and certainly the "terrain" (can you say Marin County Film Commission?) are accessable?

So new footage would not be much problem would it? You could round up enough of the old gang to say/do something in front of a lense right? Young fearless stunt doubles would beg to be in on it. The Dead angle is sharp, work it. Script, write it yourself. The above post shows that you can do it.

He thought that a documentary, something that could be distributed easily on DVD and marketed via "showings" at venues around the country, online and the press, could be done in the neighborhood of 100k. If you want the big screen in theatres (not a suitable format for this venture IMNSHO) then you can plan on the *big* bucks I guess.

Matchstick has "sponsors" that pay for their production *every* year to a tune more than that. I would think that TREK could come up with alot of that to toot the GF horn, don't you? Sponsors are the key. 

BP
CB

PS: Please make some shirts up with the FTF logo to help finance the venture. I want one. I had one that Specialized stole for their own use way back when and it was a favorite for years.It was Stumpie blue.


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

ssmike said:


> ...and Riding Giants http://www.sonyclassics.com/ridinggiants/ ...


 I'm not a surfer, but that film straight up and moved me something fierce. Halfway through, I wanted nothing more than to get up off the couch with a big wood longboard, and beat myself silly on some waves with it.

CK, I sincerely hope you find your man. For the last ten years, I wished someone would find a way to sneak our sport onto the big screen. Your story would be a great one to get down for posterity. I would just hope that should Trek get involved, they wouldn't turn it into another absurdly overblown GF promo bit. Erm, just to add. I don't think many people have a personal problem with Gary, as much as there's just a general contempt for the marketing dept in Waterloo that protrays him to be some kind of superhuman ultragenius to whom we should all grovel... well, you get the idea. I'd love to see your story without a bunch of corporate kiss-ass stuff. Of course, if it means not getting it out, well, there are always compromises. I'd buy a t-shirt too.


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## surlytman (Nov 9, 2005)

WOW! The thought of this blows me away. I have been to several screenings here in Rapid City (ski,adventure etc) and can vouch for packed houses. Last one I went to filled all 2000 seats. I know a venture like this would haul out the MTB community in every local. Thanks for the insider info on what was going on!


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> I do not want to do a general movie about mountain biking. I want to tell the story of the events in Fairfax, and the Repack race.
> 
> Just for the entertainment value, let me tell the forum how Gary Fisher and I met. It would be a crucial scene in my movie.
> 
> ...


i saw the documentary on skate.. not the fiction. one thing that story has is a dramatic social backdrop: they were surfers.. but poor. their ocean was rotten.. they didn't belong in the surfer's heavenly universe. cliche? ok.. it gets better: one of the kids, the most talented, lost it to drugs and criminality.. he was doing time while the film was completed. the chosen one, the prodigal son.. scr34d up big time. his friends have to carry on. that's material for a good story. 
you want to make fiction, you need drama.. even if mountain bikes are omnipresent, even if there was never a film about it.. if you don't have drama.. you can't have fiction.
first, find a good character(which you already have), then place him on a high tree.. now find a way to bring him down. then you'll have a movie. 
what's the drama behind the invention of mountain bike? good times only don't make fiction.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Movie*



colker1 said:


> i saw the documentary on skate.. not the fiction. one thing that story has is a dramatic social backdrop: they were surfers.. but poor. their ocean was rotten.. they didn't belong in the surfer's heavenly universe. cliche? ok.. it gets better: one of the kids, the most talented, lost it to drugs and criminality.. he was doing time while the film was completed. the chosen one, the prodigal son.. scr34d up big time. his friends have to carry on. that's material for a good story.
> you want to make fiction, you need drama.. even if mountain bikes are omnipresent, even if there was never a film about it.. if you don't have drama.. you can't have fiction.
> first, find a good character(which you already have), then place him on a high tree.. now find a way to bring him down. then you'll have a movie.
> what's the drama behind the invention of mountain bike? good times only don't make fiction.


I loved the documentary and I thought the movie was OK, but not great. I bet some of those stories are there for Charlie's movie, but people have to be willing to open up and put those things out there for everyone to see.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> I loved the documentary and I thought the movie was OK, but not great. I bet some of those stories are there for Charlie's movie, but people have to be willing to open up and put those things out there for everyone to see.


you sell the movie to a producer based on human trouble.. if you say: i have a movie on bicycles, i would ask: do they kiss in the end?


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

colker1 said:


> that's material for a good story.
> you want to make fiction, you need drama.. even if mountain bikes are omnipresent, even if there was never a film about it.. if you don't have drama.. you can't have fiction.
> first, find a good character(which you already have), then place him on a high tree.. now find a way to bring him down. then you'll have a movie.
> what's the drama behind the invention of mountain bike? good times only don't make fiction.


 I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he want's to make fiction. I think he's thinking of more of a documentary. Actually, it could probably be done as a comedy...

Hope you're alright CK.


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## purdyboy (Nov 15, 2005)

There are a lot of good cues in the above posts.
Man you don't need 10 mill . It would kill the movie. a couple of blokes down here made a move for $37K Australian ($25K U.S?) and it knock their socks off in Canne.

This is well do-able.

I like the idea of a doco, real people talking to a camera, then a couple of re-enactments, photos, old footage. Some back to the future follow up shots, showing the deveopment of the industry. Some good quotes, The netural habitat of MTBs lends itself to stunning visuals.

The openess and freedom of then, the corporatisation of now (although show there is still an "underground component" today - modern deadheads etc). If you can develop the feel of it... well once you have that, it won't need 10 mil.

How much did it cost to make the Parrot Man of Telegraph Hill (I think that's the title)?

I still remember that line from that great dirtbike doco
…”I start thinkin’ the world is all bad, then I see people havin’ fun on motorcycles and it makes me take another look.” (Steve McQueen - On Any Sunday)


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

flyingsuperpetis said:


> I'd love to see your story without a bunch of corporate kiss-ass stuff. Of course, if it means not getting it out, well, there are always compromises. I'd buy a t-shirt too.


Yeah, but a movie about the history of MTBing, if it follows the way things actually went down although starting out in the idylic sense, would pretty much end up with some of the corporate kiss-ass stuff in it anyway 

I remember the buttons that SOPWAMTOS handed out one year at Interbike in the late 90's it said "Not bought by Trek yet" on it..........


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

flyingsuperpetis said:


> I don't know, but it doesn't sound like he want's to make fiction. I think he's thinking of more of a documentary. Actually, it could probably be done as a comedy...
> 
> Hope you're alright CK.


 i was mislead by the crucial scene of him meeting gary fischer. it read as a fiction project.. but i agree it could be an interesting documentary.. especially if it's linked w/ the dead, hippie scene... and the internet. hippies were deemed as pathethic idealists and anti materialist losers a short while ago by the trend setters but .. they invented the mountian bike .. correct me if i'm wrong.. they also invented the social use of the internet. seems hippies are having the last word.
the mountain bike is the rebirth of the bicycle.. due to a different perspective brought by a group of guys in california, w/ a certain code of values and taste. these guys promoted a clash of the bicycle, a symbol of old times, and space research technology. pathethic antimaterialists? try boeing enginneers. 
wasn't for the mountain bike, there would be no aheadset, oversized everything etc.. etc.. wasn't for the mountain bike, there wouldn't be millions of people riding bikes again.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

colker1 said:


> what's the drama behind the invention of mountain bike? good times only don't make fiction.


Uh, look around. IT REALLY HAPPENED. Unfortunately, unlike the skateboarders who practiced their photography at the same time as their sport, we ranged all over a lot of hills, and didn't drag our movie cameras along. There is a total of about 10 minutes of actual film of these events, and it isn't good enough to use.

I want to recreate the events, using actors and stunt riders, but telling the real story. It's good enough. A cast of extremely unlikely characters created a multi-billion dollar industry by putting on this amazing event.

Answering another poster, I know Gary Fisher well enough that I do not need to write a bogus legend for him. It is unfortunate that he has been deified, because his real contributions to the sport have been obscured by hype.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack movie*

hippies were deemed as pathethic idealists and anti materialist losers a short while ago by the trend setters but .. they invented the mountian bike .. correct me if i'm wrong.. they also invented the social use of the internet.

????????????????? They invented the internet? I thought Al Gore invented the internet.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> hippies were deemed as pathethic idealists and anti materialist losers a short while ago by the trend setters but .. they invented the mountian bike .. correct me if i'm wrong.. they also invented the social use of the internet.
> 
> ????????????????? They invented the internet? I thought Al Gore invented the internet.


the social use of internet.. internet was invented by and for the military. and i'm not absolutely sure of all that. whta i know is that it's actual dynamics spread from the san francisco area. maybe al gore was a closet hippie. did you check his old pictures for hairstyle?


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Uh, look around. IT REALLY HAPPENED. Unfortunately, unlike the skateboarders who practiced their photography at the same time as their sport, we ranged all over a lot of hills, and didn't drag our movie cameras along. There is a total of about 10 minutes of actual film of these events, and it isn't good enough to use.
> 
> I want to recreate the events, using actors and stunt riders, but telling the real story. It's good enough. A cast of extremely unlikely characters created a multi-billion dollar industry by putting on this amazing event.
> 
> Answering another poster, I know Gary Fisher well enough that I do not need to write a bogus legend for him. It is unfortunate that he has been deified, because his real contributions to the sport have been obscured by hype.


if it's good enough.. write the script. gather everything in scenes. good luck.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> Uh, look around. IT REALLY HAPPENED. Unfortunately, unlike the skateboarders who practiced their photography at the same time as their sport, we ranged all over a lot of hills, and didn't drag our movie cameras along. There is a total of about 10 minutes of actual film of these events, and it isn't good enough to use.
> 
> I want to recreate the events, using actors and stunt riders, but telling the real story. It's good enough. A cast of extremely unlikely characters created a multi-billion dollar industry by putting on this amazing event.
> 
> Answering another poster, I know Gary Fisher well enough that I do not need to write a bogus legend for him. It is unfortunate that he has been deified, because his real contributions to the sport have been obscured by hype.


Just in case you took my "toot the horn" comment out of context. I by no means meant it in regards to making your movie as a tribute to Gary. But as he was part of the scene back then he will be part of the script no doubt? Just tell it like it is/was. My suggestion was strictly based on a possible way to fund your venture and the reason why a company like Trek might kick in.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

colker1 said:


> the social use of internet.. internet was invented by and for the military. and i'm not absolutely sure of all that. whta i know is that it's actual dynamics spread from the san francisco area. maybe al gore was a closet hippie. did you check his old pictures for hairstyle?


Good one. I was actually in military communications in the mid 80s so I am very familiar with that part of internet history, but I had never heard any reference to early use by the hippies. The first people I knew doing it were techies.


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## surlytman (Nov 9, 2005)

Bigwheel said:


> Just in case you took my "toot the horn" comment out of context. I by no means meant it in regards to making your movie as a tribute to Gary. But as he was part of the scene back then he will be part of the script no doubt? Just tell it like it is/was. My suggestion was strictly based on a possible way to fund your venture and the reason why a company like Trek might kick in.


And I think Gary did enough self promotion to aid in his deification 

And Trek would be stupid not to invest in this story.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> In the last couple of years there have been two skateboarding movies, "Dogtown and the Z boys" and "Lords of Dogtown." The first was a documentary, the second a re-creation of events, using actors. Both explored the events that led to vertical skating.
> 
> I want to make a movie about Repack. It was a supremely unlikely and crazy event, conducted by a cast of colorful characters. Repack was the event that drew together the people who would start this sport, and it is amazing to me that we got away with this highly organized, competitive event on public land without ever being busted. I think I could make a movie that every mountain biker and half the DeadHeads in the world would go see and then buy on DVD, and that should be enough people to cover the $8-10 million it would cost to make it.
> 
> ...


Already being done , they are going to start filming very soon .
I was just contracted to build a fleet of vintage /retro repack bikes for the movie .


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> I do not want to do a general movie about mountain biking. I want to tell the story of the events in Fairfax, and the Repack race.
> 
> Just for the entertainment value, let me tell the forum how Gary Fisher and I met. It would be a crucial scene in my movie.
> 
> ...


If you tell that story you will also need to toss in a bit of truth .

The montage back in time when Gary went to Cupertino and saw all the guys blasting down Bowmann fire RD, he bought one of their bike with his deadhead light show money and went back to Marin to copy what the " ORIGNAL Cupertino " rider had been doing for the past 4 years .

You story sounds interesting but the " REAL " movie is already being cast and believe me Gary Fisher will be put in his place as soon as this flick hit's theaters .
The Cupertino riders !


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack*

What a cool job. If I donate an old drum brake hub, will you put me in the credits. Ha ha.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> What a cool job. If I donate an old drum brake hub, will you put me in the credits. Ha ha.


Yea it doesnt suck !

I have 2 of the orignal " repack" bike here in my shop now .
one 1935 cleavland , and a orignal Zepher from the 40's

For the movie we are building 2 bikes for the movie , these bikes will resemble the orignal re-pack bikes but made from new TruTemper and stright guage 4130 chromoly , they want to be able to really "GET IT" on these movie bikes ( I'm can't say too much or I'll get sued ! )

Let's just say this movie is going to be nuts !


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## hiawatharider (Nov 12, 2005)

Can't help but wonder what Charlie will think of this movie featuring a cleavland and zephyr. Seems like there ought to be an Excelsior with a dash of Morrow for flavour.

There was a mountain bike history movie posted
http://bikemag.com/features/060605_klunker/ posted with an interesting note about Steve Potts.

I'm writing this because there is an absolute authority on the history of Mountainbiking that can write to boot. For all the years I have known him, he has been factual and straightforward honest. Ask Joe Breeze, Charlie Cunningham, Wendy Cragg, Otis Guy, Tom Ritchey, or even Eric Koski, and they'll all give you the same answer: Charlie Kelly.

Charlie, I hope you get your movie. It will be the academy award winner.


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

hiawatharider said:


> Can't help but wonder what Charlie will think of this movie featuring a cleavland and zephyr. Seems like there ought to be an Excelsior with a dash of Morrow for flavour.
> 
> There was a mountain bike history movie posted
> http://bikemag.com/features/060605_klunker/ posted with an interesting note about Steve Potts.
> ...


Yea that's the "other" movie

From the very little I know about this project it will feature all the orignal Marrow DC riders as well as the remaining Cupertino riders telling it how it really was .

The big misconception is that these guys in Marin started Mountian bikeing .... NO
The Cupertino riders were doing it LONG before the guys up the street copied the idea .

Ok going riding now ............


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

*I don't do fiction*



Evil4bc said:


> If you tell that story you will also need to toss in a bit of truth .
> 
> The montage back in time when Gary went to Cupertino and saw all the guys blasting down Bowmann fire RD, he bought one of their bike with his deadhead light show money and went back to Marin to copy what the " ORIGNAL Cupertino " rider had been doing for the past 4 years .
> 
> ...


I was there, and unless your name comes up on a very short list, you were not. I know the Cupertino boys, but I can assure you that Gary never went to Cupertino to see them.

I agree that the Cupertino boys, like any number of other local groups, did everything we did, but only up to a point. They didn't have competitive events like Repack and the several cross-country races we put on in the '70s. They never developed their machinery past the modified cruiser stage, while we started building custom frames. They never started a business to sell the new bikes. And finally, they didn't influence anyone other than those of us in Marin who were already going in the same direction.

The story I want to tell is the story of Repack, and even though guys showed up from all over the Bay Area to race there, the Cupertino boys had already quit riding by the time we started.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

*How is it possible?*



Evil4bc said:


> Already being done , they are going to start filming very soon .
> I was just contracted to build a fleet of vintage /retro repack bikes for the movie .


I would like to know how anyone could tell the story of Repack without talking to me or any of the other original participants.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> Yea that's the "other" movie
> 
> From the very little I know about this project it will feature all the orignal Marrow DC riders as well as the remaining Cupertino riders telling it how it really was .
> 
> ...


if it's already in production it should be around in the industry press; variety f.e... what's the name of the project?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

Evil4bc said:


> Yea it doesnt suck !
> 
> I have 2 of the orignal " repack" bike here in my shop now .
> one 1935 cleavland , and a orignal Zepher from the 40's
> ...


The message I am getting is that they are going to do more modern riding. I guess you have to please today's audience. Although screaming down mt Tam on a 50 pound bike is nuts enough for me, the stuff they do on bikes today is out of this world. It will be a challenge to impress the audience while maintaining honesty as to what they were doing back then.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> The message I am getting is that they are going to do more modern riding. I guess you have to please today's audience. Although screaming down mt Tam on a 50 pound bike is nuts enough for me, the stuff they do on bikes today is out of this world. It will be a challenge to impress the audience while maintaining honesty as to what they were doing back then.


well.. the message i'm getting is BS.. all this "i'm already doing it but i can' anyting otherwise i'm sued." sounds silly.. if props and vehicles are being made then shooting is already scheduled, the word is around, distributution deals were made and there are no secrets.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Movie*



colker1 said:


> well.. the message i'm getting is BS.. all this "i'm already doing it but i can' anyting otherwise i'm sued." sounds silly.. if props and vehicles are being made then shooting is already scheduled, the word is around, distributution deals were made and there are no secrets.


I lost you there. I was just commenting that they might be tempted to put some extreme riding in there to attract some of the younger adrenaline junkies, not that what Charlie and them wasn't extreme back then, just not by today's standards.

Charlie, you are right. Making a movie about Repack, or any early mountain bike history movie without talking to you would be like making a boxing history movie without mentioning Ali. But wait, you mean someone might make a movie that wasn't historically accurate? No, you're kidding. (sarcasm).

I hope any movie made about mountain bike history involves you, Charlie.

Scotty


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

*Who else?*

"...the continuing saga of the Race to Document our Roots...Billy Savage's project (a documentary about Repack) is continuing... Rob Korotky's project is on hold... Greg Betante's project is clicking along..."

Get those search engines fired up...

Also, Charlie, about that 10minutes of video that does exist. I hope that doesn't get written off due to film quality. It really adds something special when a documentary has even *some* actual footage from the event it's portraying. Even if it's hidden after the credits roll or even just in a special features section of a DVD... It makes it a bit more real when you see it, even if it doesn't stand up on its own.

If 10 minutes of footage was all that existed of Led Zeppelin playing live, you can bet a lot of people would still be very interested to see it, no matter how bad the quality. When it's the only artifact, it's worth preserving every frame. Good luck Charlie, keep us posted.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*



flyingsuperpetis said:


> "...the continuing saga of the Race to Document our Roots...Billy Savage's project (a documentary about Repack) is continuing... Rob Korotky's project is on hold... Greg Betante's project is clicking along..."
> 
> Get those search engines fired up...
> 
> ...


Well,
It is all on the table now I guess. I am also guessing that the mystery 10 minutes of video will only make it into one of those movies.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

*I'm confused*



flyingsuperpetis said:
 

> "...the continuing saga of the Race to Document our Roots...Billy Savage's project (a documentary about Repack) is continuing... Rob Korotky's project is on hold... Greg Betante's project is clicking along..."
> 
> Get those search engines fired up...
> 
> ...


I know Bill Savage, but I think his project has lost momentum. No one here in the Marin MTB community has heard from him for months. I have been talking with Rob.

I'm not waiting for anyone else to do anything. I'm just writing a script, and when that is finished, I'll shop it around. I haven't liked anyone else's concept of how to do this film.

Re the ten minutes of footage. Part of that is video from a 1979 TV show, and some is super-8 with no sound.

Whowever else is making a movie that requires converted clunkers, they didn't ask anyone that I know how to do it. We had some very specific modifications, and a ZEPHYR? Please. Excelsior!

I do not believe anyone could make a movie about Repack without either consulting me or at least my hearing about it. Where are they gonna shoot that? Texas? Where are they going to get the information? My website?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*



Repack Rider said:


> I know Bill Savage, but I think his project has lost momentum. No one here in the Marin MTB community has heard from him for months. I have been talking with Rob.
> 
> I'm not waiting for anyone else to do anything. I'm just writing a script, and when that is finished, I'll shop it around. I haven't liked anyone else's concept of how to do this film.
> 
> ...


Maybe Mike Judge can do the Beavis and Butthead voices for the super 8 with no sound.

"Butthead, check it out." "Shut up, Beavis! Your ruining it!"


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

ScottyMTB said:


> Maybe Mike Judge can do the Beavis and Butthead voices for the super 8 with no sound.
> 
> "Butthead, check it out." "Shut up, Beavis! Your ruining it!"


Or Greg Herbold and Hans Rey could do the narration: "Dude"


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

I saw the 10min movie at the Davis Bicycle Conference,  it definelty needs to be in a movie about the Repack. It would be cool for an intro or run during the credits.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*



kb11 said:


> I saw the 10min movie at the Davis Bicycle Conference,  it definelty needs to be in a movie about the Repack. It would be cool for an intro or run during the credits.


Who does it show? Are they flying down Tam?


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Yes, its film of the Repack race. Charlie can problably tell you who's all in it better than anyone.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

*Got a call from Gary*



hiawatharider said:


> Charlie, I hope you get your movie. It will be the academy award winner.


Gary Fisher called me today from somewhere out on the road. He said East Coast. Reason he called was to comment on this thread, which he is obviously reading.

Be nice.


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## surlytman (Nov 9, 2005)

Repack Rider said:


> Gary Fisher called me today from somewhere out on the road. He said East Coast. Reason he called was to comment on this thread, which he is obviously reading.
> 
> Be nice.


Good, I want to see some momentum here. Everyone who had a hand in the early years deserves our respect, regardless of which coast they came from. But, that original Repack crew took a step that others hadnt that leads to what we love today. Charlie, I wish you luck on this endeavor.

Hey ric, quit lurking and chime in here!


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*

I watched the Dogtown Z-Boys Documentary last night and I could almost visualize what the Repack version would look like. Instead of Peralta, Alva, Adams etc., Kelly, Fisher, Breeze etc. That would be something. I learned alot about the Dogtown culture from that movie, and I would hope to learn alot about the Marin culture from the Repack Doc.

I am convinced that a Repack documentary must be made. I hope someone makes it, regardless of whether somebody else makes a drama or action movie about the history of mountain biking.

I think a good analogy can be drawn between what was happening in Cupertino and the other skateboarding that was happening during the dowtown era. There was other skateboarding going on, but the Dogtown skaters were doing it "surf style", like nobody else. The Cupertino boys may have put a derailleur on before anybody else, but the Repack crew started the craziness. At least that is my understanding.


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## Pimpride (Nov 14, 2005)

*Keep it Low Budget...*

I think you could do a movie like Repack as an indi type film. There are so many rider/actors in the Marin area I'm sure, and with a few good corporate sponsors along for the ride, you could probably find your start up money. If you have a script, then that's the first start. Then casting for actors is next. Next is the setting/art direction stuff, like putting the racing/shop scenes into early period w/ clothes and bikes from the era. Movie making has become a way better bargain than the 35mm days. Using DV, HD and other digital equipment it could be done (technically), at minimal cost. I think there would be enough interest. I think it would be cool to make the movie using the mountain biking communtiy that it depicts. There has to be some good actors/bikers out there. I'm wondering what the people at Bike magazine would say about a movie like repack. I think if a big production house got a hold of it, it would end up cheezy anyway. Since repack is about grass roots cycling, I think it could be made using grass roots production technique like....95% is showing up. This type of idea, you either do it, or it doesn't get done. The passion you have for the project will help, but an orgaized plan of attack to find start up money would be a step in the right direction in producing the project yourself. Good luck, I think it's a great idea.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*

Too bad there isn't alot of footage. I don't think they hired a single actor for the Dogtown documentary. They hired a narrorator and the rest was interviews and original photos/footage. I guess that kind of documentary is out of the question for Repack since there isn't alot of footage.


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## mwr (Jul 17, 2004)

Use what footage they've got, then do a lot of panning over still photos a la Ken Burns. Just whatever you do, don't get Woody Harrelson to narrate.


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## surlytman (Nov 9, 2005)

I watched Joe Breeze give a slide show at Qualities open house several years back. Lots of the pics he had were from Wendy Crag. It was amazing the amount of cool info and stories that are out there about the early years!


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> I was there, and unless your name comes up on a very short list, you were not. I know the Cupertino boys, but I can assure you that Gary never went to Cupertino to see them.
> 
> I agree that the Cupertino boys, like any number of other local groups, did everything we did, but only up to a point. They didn't have competitive events like Repack and the several cross-country races we put on in the '70s. They never developed their machinery past the modified cruiser stage, while we started building custom frames. They never started a business to sell the new bikes. And finally, they didn't influence anyone other than those of us in Marin who were already going in the same direction.
> 
> The story I want to tell is the story of Repack, and even though guys showed up from all over the Bay Area to race there, the Cupertino boys had already quit riding by the time we started.


Well yes I give you the fact that I wasent around in thoes days , that might have something to do witht he fact that I can also still ride downhill at a good clip .

"They never developed their machinery past the modified cruiser stage, while we started building custom frames. "
This is wear you are blatently wrong ! 
I know this cus I have the bikes in my shop right now !
You may have your version of how it happened but people like Bicycling magazine and the Discovery channel have now spent the time to research the true history .

YES GF did go to Cupertino and buy a bike from the Cupertino guys , we have pictures!
Old fish head even admittied it to me years ago ......


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## Evil4bc (Apr 13, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> I would like to know how anyone could tell the story of Repack without talking to me or any of the other original participants.


I 'M NOT MAKING THE MOVIE !!!

I just got contracted through a few of the remaining Cupertino riders to build a few bikes for a film being produced with help from the Discovery Channel .

The newer bikes we are building are going to be for a scene with the older riders using new bikes on the original trails .

No "EXTREME use " intended ....

It's not B.S. .... there check cleared !


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## Howley (Nov 23, 2005)

CK,
In 1984 this is what I saw at Repack.
www.cycleidaho.com/download/photos/Repack

Check out the suspension...
www.cycleidaho.com/download/photos/Repack/Decender.jpg

and Side Hack...
www.cycleidaho.com/download/photos/Repack/SideHack.jpg

I'll post more when i find the other CD.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Is your movie about the Repack or who invented mountain biking? or both? I cant wait for the Discovery Channel or Bicycling mag to enlighten me with the real "truth". People were tinkering with the idea of a "mountain bike" long before the Cupertino boys and the Marin clan. It was the Repack race that spawned the need for better equipment that the next most important step in the "mountain bike" evolution took place. A purpose built bike for riding in the dirt, not a modified something. You could say this is where it really started and you can thank Joe Breeze. But then again you could say it was when CK, GF and Tom Ritchey started building the 1st production mountain bikes for sale to the public. It was a series of events, people taking there own ideas and others, and taking it to the next level. I think Charlie just wants to do a movie about the Repack that eventually lead to a new sport.


----------



## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Howley said:


> CK,
> In 1984 this is what I saw at Repack.
> www.cycleidaho.com/download/photos/Repack
> 
> ...


Cool pics!


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Repack Rider said:


> Gary Fisher called me today from somewhere out on the road. He said East Coast. Reason he called was to comment on this thread, which he is obviously reading.
> 
> Be nice.


GF has an MTBR handle and on the most rare of occasions, posts. 

I think everyone here would agree that his presence and input would be most welcome.

Stories told that come directly from the source tend to be the most engaging.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

Evil4bc said:


> Yea that's the "other" movie
> 
> From the very little I know about this project it will feature all the orignal Marrow DC riders as well as the remaining Cupertino riders telling it how it really was .
> 
> ...


I find it hard to believe that with your rude behavior and general disrespect of founding father(s) of mountain biking...that you're actually involved in such a project. How is it you think you have some authority on the subject?


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

Howley said:


> CK,
> In 1984 this is what I saw at Repack.


I'm guessing that behind the screen name you're Harley Parsons. If so, you should show off some Slingshot bikes here.

The sidehack was built by Steve Boehmke, and after wrestling that thing to the top, the descent was too much for it. DNF.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Evil4bc said:


> The big misconception is that these guys in Marin started Mountian bikeing .... NO
> The Cupertino riders were doing it LONG before the guys up the street copied the idea .


I tend to agree with Frank Berto's conclusion... The Marin guys weren't first, but neither were the Cupertino riders. From the day that bikes were invented, bikes were ridden off road. What the Bay Area guys did (namely CK, GF, and TR) was create an industry. The reason that you can go to your corner bike shop and buy a mountain bike can be traced back to these three guys. They were the first to say, "hey, we might be able to make money on these things."

The first person to ride a deraillered bike off road had to have been Tullio Campagnolo, and it was likely done the day after he invented the derailler.

I rode my Schwinn Varsity off road, and my cheap stingray knock-off before that. But the "Marin guys" are more relavent than I am because they went beyond riding off road. They convinced other people to do so, and sold them the bikes to do it.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Funny how an innocent thread started to acknowledge a good idea about documenting a significant era in cycling history like Repack in a movie format has turned into who was the first one that had the idea to ride a bicycle offroad.........  Didn't that happen well over 100 years ago when there were bicycles aplenty and hardly any roads? Wonder if the skateboarders argue endlessly on who was the first person to put wheels on a stick of wood?

Perhaps the MTBHOF can get Ed Zwick interested in doing an epic on the Pearl Pass Tour? Or perhaps the Discovery channel could do an OCC ripoff based on a custom bicycle builder? Anything that Bicycling magazine has to say about anything would be highly suspect IMNSHO, especially if their spawn publication MB has anything to do with it. 

Hope you get your wish CK! I would pay to see it.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*



kb11 said:


> Is your movie about the Repack or who invented mountain biking? or both? I cant wait for the Discovery Channel or Bicycling mag to enlighten me with the real "truth". People were tinkering with the idea of a "mountain bike" long before the Cupertino boys and the Marin clan. It was the Repack race that spawned the need for better equipment that the next most important step in the "mountain bike" evolution took place. A purpose built bike for riding in the dirt, not a modified something. You could say this is where it really started and you can thank Joe Breeze. But then again you could say it was when CK, GF and Tom Ritchey started building the 1st production mountain bikes for sale to the public. It was a series of events, people taking there own ideas and others, and taking it to the next level. I think Charlie just wants to do a movie about the Repack that eventually lead to a new sport.


Well said. I don't think the idea of the movie would be to settle it once and for all who should get credit for inventing modern mountain biking (I could be wrong). There may never be agreement there, but Marin seems to be the logical starting point.

In BMX, Scott Breithaupt is given credit for essentially starting bmx racing, although there may have been a few organized races before him. He just came at the right time and did it with such enthusiasm that it caught on.

That is what happened at Marin. They may have not been the very first, but they were one of the first, and they did it at the right time with such enthusiasm that it caught on. There were alot of factors, luck included, that made Marin the logical starting point for the sport of mountain biking.

Thanks for letting me be a small and insignificant part of this conversation between truely great people, the fathers of one of my favorite sports.

Peace, Scotty


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

ScottyMTB said:


> That is what happened at Marin. They may have not been the very first, but they were one of the first, and they did it at the right time with such enthusiasm that it caught on. There were alot of factors, luck included, that made Marin the logical starting point for the sport of mountain biking.


"Back in the day" there was no plan. There was just stuff happening, and every day we got up and put out the biggest fire. The idea that what we were doing would lead to anything so profound...well, I have a hard time taking any credit for it because it is so huge that it seems like monumental arrogance to do so.

Gary and I shared the greatest adventure of our lives, and to this day I can't say how it really happened to us. It just did.


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## kb11 (Mar 29, 2004)

Charlie, did you go on those road trips to Oregon to get the old frames? That would make a good scene


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

From FB:

"Isnt Bike putting the movie on?

http://bikemag.com/features/060605_klunker/ "

I would have thought they'd be in contact with you CK, since of all the founders, you're probably the easiest to get in touch with, and you certainly have a lot of materials... Maybe give em a buzz?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*



Repack Rider said:


> "Back in the day" there was no plan. There was just stuff happening, and every day we got up and put out the biggest fire. The idea that what we were doing would lead to anything so profound...well, I have a hard time taking any credit for it because it is so huge that it seems like monumental arrogance to do so.
> 
> Gary and I shared the greatest adventure of our lives, and to this day I can't say how it really happened to us. It just did.


No offense to the Cupertino boys or of the other mountain bike pioneers out there, but the Repack Story is at the top of my list because that is where the personalities originated from. I couldn't even name a Cupertino rider from memory although I have no doubt come across one at one time or another. Breeze, Fisher, CK, those are the names I know. Those are the personalities I want to see in a movie. Heck, I own 2 Fishers and 2 Breezers. The story of Repack is the most famous one. That is the one I want to hear. And as far as I know, that is the one that is documented the best as well, thanks to Charlie's little notebook. Maybe it is because the Repack Fathers (can I call you that?) had the most success, but whatever the case, they are the founding fathers of mountain biking for all intensive purposes.


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## colker1 (Jan 6, 2004)

ScottyMTB said:


> No offense to the Cupertino boys or of the other mountain bike pioneers out there, but the Repack Story is at the top of my list because that is where the personalities originated from. I couldn't even name a Cupertino rider from memory although I have no doubt come across one at one time or another. Breeze, Fisher, CK, those are the names I know. Those are the personalities I want to see in a movie. Heck, I own 2 Fishers and 2 Breezers. The story of Repack is the most famous one. That is the one I want to hear. And as far as I know, that is the one that is documented the best as well, thanks to Charlie's little notebook. Maybe it is because the Repack Fathers (can I call you that?) had the most success, but whatever the case, they are the founding fathers of mountain biking for all intensive purposes.


the dispute is just silly cause the "mountain bike" was developed by the guys at marin. period. cupertino whatever.. i was ridin my 28 balloon tire all over around 1966.. w/ a derrailleur. so i invented the mountain bike.. yeah, right
it's a bicycle..26in wheels, fat tires. what's the novelty? 
it's the culture.. the atittude. the product. those come from ritchey, fischer, breezer and kelly. 
discovery doesn't make too many waves.. it's not a big budget movie generating hype, media expposure etc.. let it be.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*



colker1 said:


> the dispute is just silly cause the "mountain bike" was developed by the guys at marin. period. cupertino whatever.. i was ridin my 28 balloon tire all over around 1966.. w/ a derrailleur. so i invented the mountain bike.. yeah, right
> it's a bicycle..26in wheels, fat tires. what's the novelty?
> it's the culture.. the atittude. the product. those come from ritchey, fischer, breezer and kelly.
> discovery doesn't make too many waves.. it's not a big budget movie generating hype, media expposure etc.. let it be.


How could I forget Ritchey? Probably because I am still sore about selling my Ritchey tandem a couple of years ago.


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## hiawatharider (Nov 12, 2005)

I also personally think that this 'who dunnit first is kinda crazy'. Don't we as a community want the sort of story that talks about the popularization of the sport? What gave klunking teeth was the fact that Charlie and Gary were working hard with the roadbike industry to change its mode of thinking at the time. I rode with gears on a klunker in '75 but I don't think of it as that big a deal. The guy that influenced me at the time had gears on his bike in '74. He rode an Excelsior which really was 'the bike' to have. Tandem and motorcycle stuff on cruiser frames really worked well and was worthy of attention to any bike geek at the time.

What makes Charlie and Gary stand out amongst the fray was the fact that they fought hard to convince others for change. For example, one thing I remember was how upset Gary was when Specialized was given access to making mountain bike tires. Gary and Charlie had been trying for a long time before that tire came out. At that time we were all riding with Uniroyals that weighed in at a hefty 2+ lbs.! The industry balked with Gary and Charlie until the oligopoly of Specialized came along with a ton of money. I know personally a lot of the struggle that they had early on with an industry made up of roadies. But the laid back, go anywhere attitude has stood the test of time. 

Maybe (my theory) it hasn't happened because of the drug influence, or maybe because a lot of people ripped off MountainBike (Charlie and Gary's) ideas and sold them as there own. Now those people control a major part of the industry and don't want a proper story to be told.

Sorry folks for the diatribe and conspiracy theory, but I personally have been frustrated in the fact that no one has given a thought to acknowledging the founders in a decent movie.


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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

hiawatharider said:


> Maybe (my theory) it hasn't happened because of the drug influence, or maybe because a lot of people ripped off MountainBike (Charlie and Gary's) ideas and sold them as there own. Now those people control a major part of the industry and don't want a proper story to be told..


The story is complicated, and of course I can't speak to the motives of anyone else or activities that I did not witness. If I get this thing done, it will be what I saw and did during what turned out to be an amazing adventure with a crazy guy who I spent most of my time with.

I resent any implication that drugs influenced any part of our business. Strongly.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

I would think getting Gary Fisher on board this project would be great. In the latest issue of Bike there is a great article about the 14 greatest bikes ever which has a lot of great history on the founding fathers. It also has a one page article about how selling out to Trek was a good decision for Gary. Many people around here may have anti-Trek sentiments, but after reading this I can completely see why Gary did what he did.

Anyway, to get to my point, Gary explains how he is able to pursue his interests without shelling out his own cash. As long as he can convince Trek that it is a good idea, they will let him. Well, I think this movie is a great idea and I don't think Gary would have much trouble convincing Trek of that. Such a movie could increase brand awareness of Gary Fisher bikes, making such a corporate sponsorship a good investment.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

bikerboy said:


> I would think getting Gary Fisher on board this project would be great. In the latest issue of Bike there is a great article about the 14 greatest bikes ever which has a lot of great history on the founding fathers. It also has a one page article about how selling out to Trek was a good decision for Gary. Many people around here may have anti-Trek sentiments, but after reading this I can completely see why Gary did what he did.
> 
> Anyway, to get to my point, Gary explains how he is able to pursue his interests without shelling out his own cash. As long as he can convince Trek that it is a good idea, they will let him. Well, I think this movie is a great idea and I don't think Gary would have much trouble convincing Trek of that. Such a movie could increase brand awareness of Gary Fisher bikes, making such a corporate sponsorship a good investment.


The article was good, but it was why Keith Bontrager sold his company to Trek, not Gary.


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## bikerboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Doh, I feel like a dimwit. Was there not a feature about Gary in the 14 Best Article then? I knew I should have looked at the article again before I posted, but I left my magazine at work. That is probably why I felt so uneasy about making that post. So, how about I substitute Keith's name for Gary's in my last post? Would he be willing to pull a few strings in Wisconsin?


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## Pimpride (Nov 14, 2005)

*Documentary as feature 'pilot'*



surlytman said:


> I watched Joe Breeze give a slide show at Qualities open house several years back. Lots of the pics he had were from Wendy Crag. It was amazing the amount of cool info and stories that are out there about the early years!


That would be a good start, to get the cast of characters and see what they have in terms of photos, footage, stories and info, edit it together in a ken burns style format. It would be a good way to kinda 'pilot' the feature and introduce the era and riders/characters to the potential investor/sponsor.


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

hiawatharider said:


> ...maybe because a lot of people ripped off MountainBike (Charlie and Gary's) ideas and sold them as there own...


 Oh, you mean like Gary ripping off Tom Ritchey? Or Charlie Cunningham, or perhaps Joe Breeze? Or are you referring to that award-winning CR-7, the Mantis XCR copy. As far as I can tell, Garys entire career has been taking the ideas someone else had, having them made cheaply overseas, and making his money off them. No better than that evil Specialized. Actually, Specialized was actually good at what doing that, so there's something to be said there. From all outward appearances 30 years on, CK looks a lot like the brains behind "Mountain Bikes" and Gary the hair-brained shmoozer with all the connections (& rich uncle)... refer to CK having the good sense to leave, and Gary proceeding to crash his company straight into the ground, not once, but TWICE. Trek picking him up (even on the cheap) makes him the clear winner of the "luckiest man in the sport" title, & little more.


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## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

Master Shake said:


> Oh, you mean like Gary ripping off Tom Ritchey? Or Charlie Cunningham, or perhaps Joe Breeze? Or are you referring to that award-winning CR-7, the Mantis XCR copy. As far as I can tell, Garys entire career has been taking the ideas someone else had, having them made cheaply overseas, and making his money off them. No better than that evil Specialized. Actually, Specialized was actually good at what doing that, so there's something to be said there. From all outward appearances 30 years on, CK looks a lot like the brains behind "Mountain Bikes" and Gary the hair-brained shmoozer with all the connections (& rich uncle)... refer to CK having the good sense to leave, and Gary proceeding to crash his company straight into the ground, not once, but TWICE. Trek picking him up (even on the cheap) makes him the clear winner of the "luckiest man in the sport" title, & little more.


Huh? I guess your entitled to your opinion, but it seems you don't much about Gary's career. I bet he rode more miles his senior year of high school than you have in your entire life. Ever built up a set of wheels? Ever do 4:22 down Repack on a 40+lb pre-war Schwinn? Ever raced Cat. 1 on the road? Ever do a double century...and set the fastest time? Ever try starting a company in an emerging market? Ever owned and operated a company in California? Ever climb 10,000 feet in a day, off-road and look cool doing it? Ever won a race? Never? Ya don't say. Being "the hair-brained shmoozer with all the connections (& rich uncle)" don't get you there. The fact remains that Gary, CK and TR built the gold standard of bikes. They started it all for us. Gary didn't go to Harvard Business School, he raced bikes. The man's a cyclist! Although in his 50's I'd bet my '81 Everest he, CK, and TR could spank you up and down the mountain. And BTW the "luckiest man in the sport" title should go to Cedric for not breaking his neck on that backflip at Red Bull.


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## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

*Respect Yer Elders, Sonny*



Evil4bc said:


> Yea that's the "other" movie
> 
> From the very little I know about this project it will feature all the orignal Marrow DC riders as well as the remaining Cupertino riders telling it how it really was .
> 
> ...


Respect yer elders, Sonny. Some of these older folks, CK in particular, can still fly down the mountain AND pedal up it at a damn fine clip. You might want to talk to that feller yer building them bikes for (KK) up in SkidTown and get them facts straight. Fer one, some of them Morrow D.C. fellers done rode their last trail years ago. There's been a mutual respect between the Morrow D.C. and the Marin pioneers going back over 30 years. Ya cain't jes go 'round stirring up the pot with all kinda silly talk. We know there ain't no pictures of Gary with the Morrow D.C. 'cept at that race in '74 and that was in MARIN. Gary didn't buy no bike from nobody back then, he was building em from scratch, jes like, or similar to, the boys in Cuppertino. Also, them 2 bikes in yer shop there, they ain't never been down, or near Repack, but perhaps one day soon. 
On a completely (un)related subject....
I cain't wait to see the new front ends yer working on! I hope that Cleveland still flys as good as she did when I last rode her. BTW those bikes can take extreme punishment. I didn't crack the frame on that 15 foot tabletop I pulled, did I?


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## Master Shake (Mar 6, 2005)

Well, you really told me now didn't ya? ... me, whom you don't know from a hole in the ground. Anonymity is a 2 way street. Nevermind that I could say yes to most of those, & nevermind what I do or don't know about Garys career... 90% of your post is unrelated to the subject of the one you seem to be arguing against. Gary's career was not "pro cyclist". Your point seems to because he rides his bike fast, what? He built some "gold standard" of bikes? Not only did he not build those early bikes (nor any bike for that matter), but I don't see anyone out riding this "gold standard" bike of his which Joe Breeze originally built, out on the trails today, save for the few knockoffs Trek had made in china a few years back. He was a key personality in a trendy scene that made mountain biking catch on. That's real nice. The rest of the facts stand, and point to yet another cycling "personality" whose only real success has been cashing in on his legend, typically at the expense of those in business with him, and with the help of those eager to believe in a romantic story. Thankfully, Trek knew what they were getting into when they pulled him out of the ashes the last time
.
I love Breeze & Ritchey's work in framebuilding, as well as CKs work in mtb journalism. As for my opinion, it is that their work was a thousand times more inflential than his. And it's personally a lot more rewarding to appreciate the work of people who actually produced something with their own hands, rather than a questionably talented businessman, whose main product has been a marketing image... of himself.


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## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

*Oh yeah, Yeah, Oh Yeah, Oh forget it...*



Master Shake said:


> Well, you really told me now didn't ya? ... me, whom you don't know from a hole in the ground. Anonymity is a 2 way street. Nevermind that I could say yes to most of those, & nevermind what I do or don't know about Garys career... 90% of your post is unrelated to the subject of the one you seem to be arguing against. Gary's career was not "pro cyclist". Your point seems to because he rides his bike fast, what? He built some "gold standard" of bikes? Not only did he not build those early bikes (nor any bike for that matter), but I don't see anyone out riding this "gold standard" bike of his which Joe Breeze originally built, out on the trails today, save for the few knockoffs Trek had made in china a few years back. He was a key personality in a trendy scene that made mountain biking catch on. That's real nice. The rest of the facts stand, and point to yet another cycling "personality" whose only real success has been cashing in on his legend, typically at the expense of those in business with him, and with the help of those eager to believe in a romantic story. Thankfully, Trek knew what they were getting into when they pulled him out of the ashes the last time
> .
> I love Breeze & Ritchey's work in framebuilding, as well as CKs work in mtb journalism. As for my opinion, it is that their work was a thousand times more inflential than his. And it's personally a lot more rewarding to appreciate the work of people who actually produced something with their own hands, rather than a questionably talented businessman, whose main product has been a marketing image... of himself.


Um...Sorry dude. I was just trying to cut the guy some slack. It seems everyone want to rip on him. I'm just think of him as a cyclist first. All the above mentioned are legends to me. Perhaps you are among them? Growing up in Marin I knew about, but couldn't afford, a Marin-made MountainBikes ride and had to wait until Sinyard came out with the Stumpy. It wasn't as good, but I was happy to have it. I don't know from Trek buyouts and corperate takeovers. I just know when GF and CK lived together they were doing huge miles on the road, racing and, in the off-season, building up old bombers. They, along with Joe and a host of others, started making a scene happen and had some serious fun. Yes, Joe is the man, but he was a coster brake holdout long after the others went to 'drums and thumbs'. Joe still beat them down the mountain most of the time, but not up it. Joe's first ten frames will always be 'The Ones', there's no doubt. When the Big Movie is made, I just hope they don't make Gary wear 'the black hat'. I guess you do, and that's cool. You gotta admit, those first TR/CK/GF bikes were beautiful, and I think they all three of them worked hard to make them that way. I guess JB and TR will always be the Builders, CK the Author if it all, and GF as Marketeer. Like I said, they're all legends to me.


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)




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## Repack Rider (Oct 22, 2005)

*Excuse me?*



scooterendo said:


> Huh? I guess your entitled to your opinion, but it seems you don't much about Gary's career. I bet he rode more miles his senior year of high school than you have in your entire life. Ever built up a set of wheels? Ever do 4:22 down Repack on a 40+lb pre-war Schwinn? Ever raced Cat. 1 on the road? Ever do a double century...and set the fastest time? Ever try starting a company in an emerging market? Ever owned and operated a company in California? Ever climb 10,000 feet in a day, off-road and look cool doing it? Ever won a race? Never? Ya don't say. Being "the hair-brained shmoozer with all the connections (& rich uncle)" don't get you there. The fact remains that Gary, CK and TR built the gold standard of bikes. They started it all for us. Gary didn't go to Harvard Business School, he raced bikes. The man's a cyclist! Although in his 50's I'd bet my '81 Everest he, CK, and TR could spank you up and down the mountain. And BTW the "luckiest man in the sport" title should go to Cedric for not breaking his neck on that backflip at Red Bull.


I'm not sure you wanted to send this to me, but you did.


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## vdubbusrider (Jul 28, 2004)

*whoa boy!*



Repack Rider said:


> I'm not sure you wanted to send this to me, but you did.


thats some funny stuff there i'll tell ya.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Master Shake said:


> I don't see anyone out riding this "gold standard" bike of his .., out on the trails today...


It sounds like you're not looking in the right places then. Then one says "Fisher" on the headtube, although Tom built it.

(sorry about the blurry pic)


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## flyingsuperpetis (Jan 16, 2004)

Repack Rider said:


> I'm not sure you wanted to send this to me, but you did.


 Ah ha, about that. That can be a little confusing. If the system has you down as "subscribed" to a particular thread, it automatically emails you any replies to the thread, whether they were in response to your orignal post or someone elses. It wouldn't be the first time it's caused some foncusion. Man, I let somebody have it once, before I realized they were talking to someone else.

You can turn that "subscribe" feature off in your "my account" options. Actually there are a lot of settings in there to play with that make this forum easier to read. Like the "new messages first" instead of last. Saves going back through the same 50 original posts to see the one new one every time. Anyway, there you have it.

Back to your previously scheduled programming, "mtb smackdown 2005..."


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack*

Rumpfy, Thanks for those pictures. Awesome.
Scotty


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

ScottyMTB said:


> Rumpfy, Thanks for those pictures. Awesome.
> Scotty


Yeah, that was at the FairFax Fat Tire Festival this year.
The second half of that day was the real treat though.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack*



Rumpfy said:


> Yeah, that was at the FairFax Fat Tire Festival this year.
> The second half of that day was the real treat though.


I figured those were all yours. I need to go to that. When is it? Is there somebody out there that maintains a calendar of all the fat tire events?


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## hiawatharider (Nov 12, 2005)

For those who may want to know of the july event in Fairfax, http://veloclubfairfax.com/festival.html. 
Looked to me like part of the event was at the Sir Francis Drake high school grounds. I wonder if that movie was the movie Charlie aforementioned. Thank you Rumpfy for posting the cool photos.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

I only got to see this thread just now. Had finished my beer already, so grabbed a Coke just to celebrate reading all this good stuff. Awesome, and great plan.

About the money...contact some rich people known to ride. Like the Kramer guy, word goes he's quite an avid cyclist, as is Seinfeld. They even hung some alternating bikes to the wall of Jerry's appartment to show their love for the bike. Even if they don't want to spend 1% of their bank account on a $10million movie, they may know the people who will, and they'll know what to say to warm them up to seeing Charlie about the idea.

Especially if you guys team up, Charlie, Gary, Joe, and whomever you're still on speaking terms with, and together present this movie script you stand behind as "the way it went", it's hard to not find a good backer. If Tom and Gary can find initial funds inside their companies, that may just be what sparks the fuse in Hollywood.

The greatest sport you never saw a movie about...

I can already see that some bad quality footage fading into the same actual rider on an identical bike (borrowed from a forum member here?) bombing down the same place at Repack, fading into again the same rider now on a modern bike. See where it all started and what it has led to. Some Eurobike and Interbike footage would be cool, to get an idea of where the sport is now. But maybe that's too "Discovery Channel" for you.

If you need someone to do the subtitles for the Dutch language, I'd love to have a go at that.


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## mmerll (Nov 24, 2005)

*Ok, I'll say it clearly...*

I believe that when someone starts a flame war in reply to a decent post there's a lot of insecurity going on. Nemesis Project was at the trade show trash talking a lot of companies. Jericho bikes being among them. Now he starts in on this thread. Why?

FYI: Nemesis Project/aka: Evil4bc is

If somebody needs to do this much trash talk, they're in the death throes as a company. Brad, stop burning your bridges like you've done on HCor.com. Nobody wants to hear, or see you up on a pulpit. Have some respect.

Who cares man! It's like argueing who invented the wheel.

Thanks "master" for this info.

"Respest your elders."

MikeMerrell




> If you tell that story you will also need to toss in a bit of truth .
> 
> The montage back in time when Gary went to Cupertino and saw all the guys blasting down Bowmann fire RD, he bought one of their bike with his deadhead light show money and went back to Marin to copy what the " ORIGNAL Cupertino " rider had been doing for the past 4 years .
> 
> ...


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

mmerll said:


> I believe that when someone starts a flame war in reply to a decent post there's a lot of insecurity going on. Nemesis Project was at the trade show trash talking a lot of companies. Jericho bikes being among them. Now he starts in on this thread. Why?
> 
> FYI: Nemesis Project/aka: Evil4bc is
> 
> ...


Mike buddy...at the root of your post, I happen to agree with your sentiments on talking poorly of other companies and the respecting of elders.

But to retort with an equally inflammatory reply and post someones name and private information publicly without their consent, ain't happen' in my forum.

I've edited your post.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

On a related note (okay, maybe not so releated)...

While watching TV last night I saw an ad for a movie about snow boarding. The trailer made it sound like it was about the "birth of snow boarding." If those slakcers can be make a movie, it seems like we slackers could too!

CK I hope you get your money one day. You'll get my $9.50 to see it on the big screen.


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## mmerll (Nov 24, 2005)

*If this is the E.Rumpf that has the old stumpy...*



Rumpfy said:


> Mike buddy...at the root of your post, I happen to agree with your sentiments on talking poorly of other companies and the respecting of elders.
> 
> But to retort with an equally inflammatory reply and post someones name and private information publicly without their consent, ain't happen' in my forum.
> 
> I've edited your post.


I respect and understand your actions. No problem.Check your pm's.

Mike


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## Rumpfy (Dec 21, 2003)

mmerll said:


> I respect and understand your actions. No problem.Check your pm's.
> 
> Mike


Greatly appreciated Mike!

You and obi got the reply PM.


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

Another venue to show this kind of film would be the Vancouver Mountain Film Festival. One night of the festival is devoted to mountain bikes.

http://www.vimff.org/


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## CraigH (Dec 22, 2003)

Thanks for the article link, interesting reading.


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## lazyracer (Apr 11, 2004)

*1952 Spitifire ... yeh baybay !*








Wileydog


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*repack*



lazyracer said:


> *1952 Spitifire ... yeh baybay !*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice. Are we having tryouts for our bikes to be in the repack movie?


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*

I think we hijacked Charlie's thread to post our clunkers. how about starting a new clunker thread?


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## hiawatharider (Nov 12, 2005)

I have signed up and chimed in on this thread and webblog for two reasons.

Why hasn't there been a movie on the history of MountainBikes? And to see that Charlie with all his great spirit and wisdom is still alive and well. 

I realize now that things haven't changed much since mountain biking hit the big time. I was the kid (everyone else seemed to be in their twenties) and hung out in Charlie and Gary's shop when it opened in the funky building on Center blvd (still there and has been fixed up to boot!). I had worked in the Cove shop on and off for Don Koski, and regularly worked for another in Larkspur during that time (under the table though cause I was too young). A best friend shortly after that time was Joe Murray, and this was before he rode a klunker. Charlie would remember me cause I was the one who printed a really large group ride photograph of every one at the time up on the mountain. I am real and not making stuff up. I also don't want to ruffle feathers, but the story's soul for me can be found in an honest truth about the people from the hey-day beginnings.

What makes me sad is that at one end of the spectrum everyone has to be extreme and on the other end, only certain parts of the story should only be told. As Charlie said, "the story is complicated". Why can't there be a history told by the views of many as opposed to one. Research and careful observation obviously would be important. The industry began somewhere in the 1850s but did not truly become mountainbiking till the group in Marin made it so. The folks in Cupertino should get their mention but many others should also. I remember Charilie Cunningham's mill in the back of where he lived in Fairfax, and so sincerely dedicated to getting folks out of the car and onto a lightweight folding mountain bike. Nobody seems to mention the crazy contraptions and forethought that he has had and rode (there has been a mention by CK in some of his writing). What about all the SS riders from Mill Valley and Larkspur during the '70s that dominated the mountain? They were significant in my mind for how they would propagate the idea that riding in the woods ruled, and also brought into light the conflict/fight for riding legally on trails (again, all in the '70s).

For me as a junior high schooler and mountainbiker of the mid '70s, the ride on the mountain was a personal statement of doing something different with an eclectic style to boot. For me the story would be incomplete without the conversations and feelings of those people who guided us all with their thoughts, designs and manufacturing of early ATB bike stuff. Let the movie follow them with the story. 

Once again, sorry for the diatribe. Why can't someone out there put this together to make a more complete story for those who don't know except for the short story excerpts in the marketing oriented 'zines. I would be one of the many first in line to watch.


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## ScottyMTB (Oct 26, 2005)

*Repack Movie*

I just received my copy of Joe Kidd on a Stingray, the bmx documentary. It is awesome. Done in the style of Dogtown and Zboys. Hurry up and make that repack movie will ya?


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## mrkawasaki (Aug 2, 2006)

*Vintage Threadery*

Did this film get made.... 

Wasn't around when this thread started - interesting to (re)read now!

Mr K


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

mrkawasaki said:


> Did this film get made....


http://www.klunkerz.com/index.html


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## ameybrook (Sep 9, 2006)

I still have not seen Klunkerz. I suck.


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## scooterendo (Jan 30, 2004)

Please come to www.klunkerz.com and see why these folks said these nice things...
KLUNKERZ PRESS ONE-LINERS

USA TODAY 
"Savage's funny and often poignant film looks at how a bunch of semi-stoned hippies in Northern California developed a unique style of off-road bike riding through collaboration and competition&#8230;KLUNKERZ is worth checking out, even if you're not a bike nut."

THE NEW YORK TIMES
"The titular vehicles of William Savage's aptly-named documentary KLUNKERZ are, in fact, pre-1941 bicycles, gamely converted into mountain bikes. In his documentary, Savage takes a fond glimpse at this international craze."

MOVIEMAKER MAGAZINE
"Documentaries of this nature always appeal to a very niche audience, but KLUNKERZ is just as enjoyable for those of us who aren't cyclists."

STUFF MAGAZINE
"KLUNKERZ looks at the origins of the sport and the Californians who went big on street bikes back at the start of it all, way back in the hair-and-flair '70s."

MOVIE MAGAZINE INTERNATIONAL
"KLUNKERZ is a small, but important, film that traces the history of modern day mountain biking."

IDAHO STATESMAN/THE MIAMI HERALD
"KLUNKERZ is definitive-and destined for classic status&#8230;Savage succeeds in making the story appealing to movie buffs and bike geeks alike."

THE DURANGO HERALD
" It's colorful characters and the community they created is what makes this movie completely stand out."

PARK CITY RECORD
"Savage calls it a labor of love and it seems true in every aspect."

MARIN INDEPENDENT JOURNAL
"It's a great ride."

THE SANTA BARBARA INDEPENDENT
"Classic footage and even more classic denim-armored characters-some of whom have gone on to mountain biking royalty like Gary Fisher and Joe Breeze-makes this an enjoyable, educational, and entertaining movie."

BIKE MAGAZINE (Best of the Year)
"KLUNKERZ is the most compelling bike film made in quite some time."

MOUNTAIN BIKE ACTION 
"Maybe the most remarkable thing about the film is you don't have to be a mountain biker to be thoroughly entertained."

BICYCLE RETAILER AND INDUSTRY NEWS
"Finally, a mountain biking film that captures the history of the sport, KLUNKERZ has many of the same traits that made films like Riding Giants and Dog Town so great."

VELONEWS
"It was a period of camaraderie and innovation that has been loving and masterfully documented by Billy Savage in his film KLUNKERZ."

RIDE MAGAZINE SOUTH AFRICA
"Combine the hedonistic philosophy of the times with the sort of expendable income and spare time for recreation undreamt of by earlier generations, and it becomes a no-brainer&#8230; William Savage perfectly captures this era."

MOUNTAIN BIKE TALES
"Billy Savage has literally put together a chronicle of a revolution that will probably outlast the bicycle as we know it."

THE BICYCLE PAPER
"KLUNKERZ is a funny, informative journey from beginning to end&#8230;a must see."

COMPETETIVE CYCLIST
"KLUNKERZ is now required viewing to anyone and everyone who rides a mountain bike."

SPOKES MAGAZINE
"KLUNKERZ is definitely a classic that will be worth sharing with friends as well as watching over and over again."

DIRT MAGAZINE
"Watch this film, then go out on your bike&#8230;you'll feel differently about the way you ride, I'm sure of it."

DIRT MAGAZINE U.K.
"KLUNKERZ is a film from the heart and soul of Billy Savage."

BIKE RADAR
"The right people in the right time spawned the mountain bike, and KLUNKERZ does and excellent job of letting them tell their story. Two thumbs up and five stars."

MOUNTAIN BIKING MAGAZINE
"KLUNKERZ is a very special film&#8230;this is definitely one to have in your collection."

XLR8R MAGAZINE
"Fascinating!"

MOMENTUM MAGAZINE
"&#8230;you get a real sense of excitement&#8230; it's hard not to get a contact high."

MOUNTAIN LIFE MAGAZINE
"This movie will have you dying to bomb a hill on a one-speed, coaster-braked, beach cruiser."

FM4 AUSTRIA
"KLUNKERZ is warmingly nostalgic without being a mere history lesson."


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## Slimpee (Oct 3, 2007)

ameybrook said:


> I still have not seen Klunkerz. I suck.


I'm with you...


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

Klunkerz = good movie. Saw it last summer at the New Belgium Brewery during their summer bike-in movie series.


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## hairstream (Apr 20, 2008)

Bought the dvd from Amazon. 

That Billy dude is a good film maker. It is very entertaining and informative. 

I've watched it so many times that I've taken to syncing it with my Pink Floyd album.


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