# Alfine 8 slipping in gear 5



## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

I've got a Pugsley that I set up with an Alfine 8 about 10 months ago. So I'm cruising on the beach yesterday, and the hub made a loud clunk, and I got about a half of a crank revolution of slippage. The pedals just whipped around for half a turn. I was able to recreate the slippage by shifting up or down and back to 5th again. Sometimes it will slip multiple times in quick succession.

Yes, I've checked the shifter cable tension about a hundred times now. Yellow dots line up. No amount of adjustment seems to help. It's also not a chain issue. Chainline is dead on, and no slack either. The funny thing is, gears 1-4 are totally rock solid. Out of the saddle grinding up steep 1,000 foot climbs in 1st gear, no problemo. Cruising on the beach in 5th, problem. Seems to happen most after starting from a stop or after shifting into 5th.

I'm running a 32x22 ratio, and I've always been very diligent about not shifting under load. I always stop pedaling for a second while I shift, even on climbs. I've also always kept an eye on the cable adjustment, too. I do ride this bike on hard trails, though. Lots of hard climbing and fast descending, but its always been up to the task. 

Any other Alfine 8 users encounter this issue? Is this type of riding just too much to ask out of an Alfine 8? I'm a little bummed out because I really like this setup and would hate to have to go back to derailleurs.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

I had a problem with 8th gear on a recent ride. I found the "lock" that held the cable holder had rotated backwards. This allowed the cable holder to move. Might not be your problem, but sure was mine. Good luck.


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## ultraspontane (May 26, 2011)

Nope, my lockring is properly fixed in place.

I bought this hub from a lbs. I'm going to bring it in as soon as I'm back from vacation. My lbs will probably go to bat for me, but does anyone have any experience with warranty claims for these hubs? Mine is only 9-10 months old.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Hmmmm..you're headed in the right direction. My LBS will go to bat for their customers every time. Good luck.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

What the heck!?! My ride yesterday started with some strange initial shifting. Ended with 5th gear slipping! Did you jinx me? Voodoo doll stuck with pins? Looks like I'm heading to the LBS tomorrow when they open. I'm glad I didn't buy mine online....


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Ya if it's under a year try and get it fixed/replaced under warranty.

My A8's are older. They have seen a lot of action and are still going strong.

No way to diagnose your hub online, but you may have just got a dud.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Although I ordered my parts (including wheelset built with Alfine hub) online from Universal, they have a brick 'n mortar store in Portland. (Approx 150 miles from here). I'd rather drive to Portland than Seattle any day. Much nicer drive from where I live, and I buy my kayaks and paddles in OR, too.
My nearest "LBS' is only 25 miles away, but they didn't have what I wanted, and tried to steer me towards something they had in stock that I didn't want. 
I "showroom" online stores and do research on the internet, and then call or go see the LBS to see if they can fix me up. If they have what I'm looking for in stock, I'll drive in and buy it from them at their price.
If they don't have it, unfortunately, it seems like they take 2 or 3 weeks (instead of 4-5 days) to get stuff in after I order it, and then I have to drive back there again to pick it up. My last order there was for a centerlock adapter for a 6-bolt brake disc and a Surly BB socket, which I need to complete my bike. Its already been ten days, and the stuff I ordered hasn't yet arrived at their store, yet. Maybe it will get there this week. I hope.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Good luck (again). I spoke to my mech at the LBS. Said bring it in and he'll start the process. Love the hub...hate going back to de-rail-yours. even if it's temporary.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

LBS called today. Good news. It was a cable issue (again.) The mech pulled the hub apart and found no broken or bent parts. 
Seems that the cable clamp/bolt assembly slipped. Shimano rep said there needs to be 110mm from the cable end to the center of the bolt.

Each time I have had a problem , it has been the cable. The hub has been bomb proof. So has been the a11 on our other fatbike.

Thanks Mathieu's Cycle in Oakland, Maine and thanks tech help from shimano!


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## vikb (Sep 7, 2008)

Glad it was a simple fix and you are back in action again.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Hmmmmm. OK, I might need that much extra cable hanging out past the end of my cable clamp if I need to grab it for any future adjustments, but 110 mm sounds rather long.
Unless the Shimano rep meant to say that "there needs to be 110mm of cable from the END FITTING ON THE CABLE HOUSING to the center of the bolt." In which case, that is either a typo that 1spd1way commited when posting, or else the Shimano rep is incorrect.

I know, because i tried using 110mm of cable from the END FITTING ON THE CABLE HOUSING to the center of the screw on the adjusting clamp, and there appeared to be about 10mm of slack remaining. So I just snugged it up, taking out all of the slack, but no more. Then I re-tightened the clamp, popped it out of its holder on the hub, and re-measured it. It measured 100mm exactly.

Again: The correct length of cable from the END FITTING ON THE CABLE HOUSING to the center of the clamp bolt is exactly 100mm. This was easy enough to determine by simply taking all of the slack out of the cable when attaching it to the hub (shifter is still in gear #1 at this point).

And when I shifted to gear #4 to see if the yellow marks lined up, they were almost dead spot on. It only took a couple of turns of the adjuster on the shifter to get them lined up exactly.
I have the Shimano Alfine 8-spd shifter. Part # SL-S503(DX).



1spd1way said:


> LBS called today. Good news. It was a cable issue (again.) The mech pulled the hub apart and found no broken or bent parts.
> Seems that the cable clamp/bolt assembly slipped. Shimano rep said there needs to be 110mm from the cable end to the center of the bolt.
> 
> Each time I have had a problem , it has been the cable. The hub has been bomb proof. So has been the a11 on our other fatbike.
> ...


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Hope to go for my first test ride this afternoon, when the rain showers should be gone.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

My gorilla fingers and lack of coffee/beer sometimes affects my posting... You are correct sir. Ride on, ride free.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Here's what my hub looked like in 4th gear before I did the fine adjusting with the adjusting barrel on the shifter. I measured exactly 100mm of cable from the cable housing end fitting to the center of the clamp bolt, with the hub in 1st gear. Then i shifted it into 4th, and was happy with the result.

I got the marks lined up exactly using the shifter's adjusting barrel.


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## mattgVT (Nov 9, 2010)

I had this same problem recently - the gears 5 and above would pop or slip out of gear under load. There are maybe a few hundred miles on it, but the problem first occurred early on and I kept riding it thinking maybe it just needed to break in. My LBS pulled it apart, cleaned and re-lubricated the hub at the suggestion of Shimano but the problem still kept happening. Shimano is sending new internals under warranty. Not sure how it could be a cable problem if you have the yellow lines aligned properly in 4th gear - mine was dead on too, but I found the problem to be less frequent if I set up the yellow line to shift past the fixed point in 4th gear by a few millimeters.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

mattgVT, It sounds to me that the clutch is slipping, or malfunctioning in some way. It engages for gears 5 thru 8, according to the poop sheet I have.
Good on Shimano for sending replacement innards.


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## 1spd1way (Jun 30, 2006)

Mine is shifting o.k. Still get "pops" and "loud clacks" every so often, mainly in 4-6 gears. Can't tell exactly where it's coming from, hub or crankset/chain. 
Still riding, that's what's important.


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## Traktor (Oct 18, 2004)

I have been riding a new Alfine for a couple of months and get some slippage only when starting out from a stop in gears higher than 4. I have maintained the yellow bar adjustment and am convinced that its not out of adjustment. It doesn't happen anymore because I am getting used to shifting down before starting out. 

It seemed to happen when I'd start at a street corner in a high gear and have to move fast due to crossing traffic. 

I came to the conclusion that too much torque in high gears causes the gears (or clutch) to slip. I have mashed on the higher gears on uphills and never had a similar slippage.

Is the slippage in high gears ruining the hub?


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## Raul34 (Feb 7, 2012)

I just installed mine last night and took it for a test ride.

I had everything lined up perfectly- to the eye. I am sure it is set up correctly. In 8th gear, usually- it happened in 7th once also- I heard a little pop, then it would skip for half a rotation. I am going to keep trying to fine tune it, but I couldn't get it to stop last night.

Please tell me this is a common problem that will go away with fine tuning!


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## shwinboy (Jan 13, 2004)

Yes popping ,clacking and slipping all seem to be quite normal with the Alfine 8 and it takes a fair bit of patience to tune it. Things I found that have helped. When using the barrel adjuster only turn it a little at a time. An eighth of a turn can make a huge difference. Be observant. I found when adjusting the slipping would migrate to the next gear or I'd cure the slipping but it wouldn't down shift. It really is a fine tuning trial and error process. Make sure your cable routing is as smooth and kink free as possible especially if on a dualie. And the thing that really helped was to remove the non drive side cone and drizzle about 7mm of automatic transition oil into it the hub. The improvement in shifting was like night and day. After that I did my first 3 hr ride without any shifting issues what so ever. I had it pretty well tuned before that but the oil just cured all the clunky slipped shifts.


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## Surly29 (Jun 8, 2009)

I have two Alfine 8's and an 11. Any popping and/or slipping would NOT be normal in my mind.

I had my 11-spd pop on me recently and now it rotates about a 1/2 turn before engaging. I consider this to be broken and I'm sending the internals in as soon as I get around to it. (FWIW, I think I let the oil freeze in my shed this winter)

I never shift with the pedals rotating and both my 8-spds shift and run with NO noises. The older one I did an ATF oil bath on, but didn't notice much in "performance improvements", so I didn't bother on the newer hub. I just adjust the cone bearings and grease it up every year or two.


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## Raul34 (Feb 7, 2012)

Welp, starting the return/warranty process with QBP/Shimano this week. I've adjusted and readjusted for the last two weeks to no avail. The skipping is constant no matter how little fine tuning I've tried. Had a friend look at it that has built several bikes with the Alfine 8 and he said after 2 minutes of looking at it and riding it that there is something defective with it. He said he measured, lined up the yellow lines and was off- haven't had a problem with them in years.

So now the arduous task of contacting QBP (who built the wheel) and or Shimano and seeing about getting a new one. So that will make another 3-4 weeks of not riding the fat bike. 

Talk about frustrating. Anyone had to do this, and will I end up sending the whole wheel back, or just the internals?


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## Raul34 (Feb 7, 2012)

Finally got my wheel back from QBP a few weeks ago and they had rebuilt it with a new hub. Installed it last night and presto! Worked perfectly. Definitely had a bad one the first time. I'm pretty excited to ride the hell out of it this Winter.

Brap!


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## John Serkaian (Oct 11, 2013)

I just updated my 1983 Trek 720 with a Nexus 8 Redline hub (128 mm spacing by removing the spacer washer) and it's a real pleasure to ride but I recently began having a similar "slipping" issue with no apparent cause. I have 400 miles on the hub and it has been flawless except for the recent "slips" after down-shifting, almost like a dog-tooth has not fully engaged a sun gear. The only variable that has changed is the weather - my occasional morning commutes are much colder than just a few weeks ago. I'm careful how I shift (w/o torque,) the yellow lines are perfectly alligned, and the J-Tek shifter and Jagwire full length shifter cable don't seem to have any friction issues. Could the internals or grease be affected by the cold? Would a quick bath in some ATF help? I can't repeat the problem so it's frustrating not knowing when it will happen next or how to diagnose the real issue. Does the 11 speed have similar issues?


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

I now find myself in the process of breaking in two Alfine 8-spd hubs.
(I built up my Pugs with one back in Feb, and recently purchased a new "old stock 2008" Giant Transend EX city bike that came with one. (Saw the Transend trying to hide in a dark corner of my LBS, noticed the Alfine 8-spd she was sporting, blew off the dust in a test ride. Ride was OK overall, not love at first flight or anything, but I liked her tranny so much that I wrangled a small discount off the price and took her home).

Only have about 100 miles on the Pugs, and less than 50 on the Transend. My riding got interrupted by a heart attack back in May. I'm on the road to recovery, now, and have been taking short rides (anywhere from 3 to 10 miles), including cruising some mellow local trails on my Pugs.
So far, I have been running both of these new hubs thru their gears, and have enjoyed smooth and quiet shifting. I always de-power the pedals while shifting. I haven't noticed any slippage yet.
I note that 5th gear in the Alfine 8-spd hub does not engage either of the planetary gear systems (gear-set 1 is used for 1st thru 4th gears, and gear-set 2 for 6th thru 8th gears), but instead works by having the clutch directly engaging with the "carrier."

Does grease get thickened enough by cold temps? Could thick, slow grease be the culprit here? I have no idea. I haven't ridden either of my Alfine-equipped bikes in really cold temps yet. We've been enjoying a really balmy Fall so far here on the WA coast. On colder days, I've been going for rides in the mid-afternoon, with temps above 50 F.

edit: rained here all day yesterday, but clear and in mid-50's F now, and time for my afternoon ride


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## pursuiter (May 28, 2008)

I hope your recovery goes well. My Dad had a heart attack several years ago and he's still walking 18 holes at age 79. Modern medicine has really improved the quality of life for heart attack victims. 

I run my Alfines with synthetic ATF to keep them shifting smoothly in the cold (below 40*F). I found the Alfine would hang a little in the cold and shifting was delayed.


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## PlutonicPlague (Jan 19, 2014)

Thanks, pursuiter. My Dad is 91 and still living independently. He was still golfing (using a cart) at 85.
After my heart attack, I was diagnosed with "congestive heart failure." I've got "arrhythmia" and "atrial fibrillation." For a while, my heart was only pumping about 10% of its volume each beat. (A healthy heart pumps approx. 55% of its volume each beat). Now I'm back up to a range between 25% and 30%, which is probably why all my efforts seem half-hearted lately:-( 
Had a "heart catheterization" done and my cardiologist told me that my arteries are not clogged. He said that they were "nearly impeccable." Problem is in a ventricle, most likely a failed valve. We're still trying to pinpoint the problem. I get to have an "echo-cardiogram" and some other diagnostic procedures done next week, on the 30th. I'm hoping that I won't have to eventually change my name to "Pigheart" or something similar, but they tell me that once a valve goes kaput, its gone.

So, when its cold outside and the Alfine-8 starts slipping or lagging, the finger points at the cold sluggish grease as the likely cause. Using synthetic ATF as the lube is the trick, eh? I may just opt to ride my SS road bike here this winter if it gets so cold here that my Alfine hubs get sluggish. The "new" '08 Transend EX is going up to my Dad's house so that I'll have an Alfine-equipped bike to ride on the local backroads in his area, and the Olympic Discovery Trail, which passes near his house. 
Both hubs are still in their initial stages of getting broken in, and of course I'm not going to mess with them if i don't have to. They are still new. It will be interesting to see how the cold temps affect my hubs. I usually don't ride in temps below freezing, but go for walks, instead. However, in the interest of furthering IGH understanding, I'll just have to steel myself against the wind-chill and see if I notice any differences.



pursuiter said:


> I hope your recovery goes well. My Dad had a heart attack several years ago and he's still walking 18 holes at age 79. Modern medicine has really improved the quality of life for heart attack victims.
> 
> I run my Alfines with synthetic ATF to keep them shifting smoothly in the cold (below 40*F). I found the Alfine would hang a little in the cold and shifting was delayed.


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## John Serkaian (Oct 11, 2013)

Good luck to everyone's hearts. It's been sixty miles since the last "slip" so I'm due for another surprise. I'm taking advantage of the good weather before calling it a season but I'll try drizzling in some ATF over the winter to see if cures the problem for next year. I just wish I could pinpoint and understand the actual issue.


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## Val Garou (Mar 12, 2008)

pursuiter said:


> I run my Alfines with synthetic ATF to keep them shifting smoothly in the cold (below 40*F). I found the Alfine would hang a little in the cold and shifting was delayed.


For clarification, Pursuiter, does this mean you do the ATF dip and then reapply Shimano's Internal Gear Hub grease to all of the bearings, or that you leave the grease step undone. Or something else?


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