# Giant Glory or Iron Horse Sunday?



## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

Im looking for a new DH bike, it will be used primarily for racing. at the moment im looking at the giant glory and the 2007 iron horse sunday team or expert. any suggestions?? as far as price goes I can spend around $5000. any opinions or suggestions would be nice. im not opposed to other bikes either. Thanks!


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## xKREDx (Aug 8, 2006)

you can also use the search option there's a lot of threads on this


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

I did. no one else compared the two bikes. i wanted to see if anyones ridden both to give me an opinion.


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## RiDe66 (Aug 26, 2005)

Hi man I'll try to help you the best I can

First, let's compare frames : 
Giant GLORY
Seat Tube : 16,54'' 
Chainstay : 17,5'' 
Wheelbase : 45,1''
BB height : ND
Head Angle : 65,5 degres
Travel : 8,8''

IH SUNDAY line
Seat Tube : 17''
Chainstay : 17,25''
Wheelbase : 45,25''
BB height : 13,9''
Head Angle : 65 degres
Travel : 8,0''

Verdict : The advantage came to the Sunday line. A shorter chainstay is synonym of a best cornering bike, a longer wheelbase make it more stable at high speed. 

Althrough a slacker head angle make a bike more forgivable when landing. If your new to racing, advantage goes to the Sunday if you'r not, advantage to the Glory because a steeper angle make a bike more manoeuvrable. For the travel, the Glory got 0,8 inches more...but it's not significant if your suspensions are well dialed.

Bottom line : Advantage to the Sunday all the way here and a must, the Sunday is a good pedaling bike.

Now, let's compare the specifications...

Glory
Brakes : Hayes HFX-9 8''
Wheelsets : Run Ringle ABBAH on EX729 rims
Drivetrain : SRAM X-9 on X-9 Shifter
Fork : Fox 40RC2
Rear Shock : Fox DHX 5,0

Bottom line : 
A good adjustable fork on rebound, high and low speed compression and preload via different springs. The fork weight 7lbs. 

The rims are bombproof as I'm using thems for two seasons without flat spots or dents. The hubs got 4 sealled cartridge bearings so they will have a stong living. The pawls of the Ringle rear hub got few issues because they are in steel so rust can corrode thems, but if you take time to open it up after a muddy ride, clean the dirt and apply new oil, they will last forever. 

The SRAM X-9 drivetrain got the 2006 X-0 technology in 2007. Strong drivetrain. 

The rear shock is adjustable in bottom out, pedal platform to decrase bobbing effect when pedaling, in rebound, preload and air pressure to insure a good transition between pedal platform and bottom out. 

The only weak link is the brake. They are very reliable on a trail but the lever came out easily if you make a crash (I did) . They are not as powerful as the juicy and have not as much modulation as them.

Spec's comparison 
Sunday Team
Brakes : Avid Juicy 5 8''
Wheelsets : DT Swiss FR 6,1 wheelset 
Drivetrain : SRAM X-9 derailler on X-7 Shifter
Fork : Rock Shox Boxxer Team
Rear Shock : Fox DHX 5,0

Bottom line : 
Good and sensitive fork. Nothing in comparison of the older boxxers. Adjustable on rebound, high and low speed compression and preload via different springs. The fork weight 6,8lbs. 

The rims are good and light and DT hubs are race proven .

The SRAM X-9 drivetrain is strong and the X-7 shifters are full aluminium so they are heavier than the X-9 but they have the shift indicator on. 

The rear shock is the same than the one on the Glory. 

Avid Juicy five are strong. They are the same than the Juicy 7 but without the contact point adjuster (red knob). They are very reliable, they have a good modulation and they are powerful. Avid put it this year on the XC line because they now have the CODE but they do the Job well in DH and they are lighter than the CODE. 

Spec's comparison 
Sunday Expert
Brakes : Hayes HFX-9 8''
Wheelsets : Sun Rims S-Type on Iron Horse own hubs
Drivetrain : SRAM X-7 med cage on X-7 shifters
Fork : Marzocchi 888 RV
Rear Shock : Fox Vanilla R

Bottom line : 
Good fork. Adjustable on rebound and preload via different springs and rebound. Reliable fork but heavier.

The rims are pinned not welded so i'm suspicious here. 

The SRAM X-7 drivetrain will do the work. 

The rear shock is only adjustable on rebound so here's a difference between the two others bikes. 

Again, the HFX-9 here (look back to the GLORY review).


BOTTOM LINE : If I was you, I'll consider the Sunday Team(1st) or the glory(2nd) depending on your budget and your priorities. For comparison, I have an M3 on order for 2007 with a Rock Shox Team, Juicy 7 brakes, Sram X-9 derailleur on X-7 shifter, MTX on Ringle ABBAH hubs and DHX 5,0 Shock and I'm confident on this setting. Sorry for mistakes...I'm french ..Good luck dude!


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## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

First off, the Glory's head angle is not 69 Degrees. More like 65.5 I believe. 

I have heard lots of good things about the DW Linkage and the Maestro Linkage. Personally, I would say to the Glory, but its partially cosmetics too, so that part is up to you.


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## RiDe66 (Aug 26, 2005)

All data is from the Giant USA website...I didn't invent nothing here


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## dtufino (Feb 6, 2006)

Get a Sinister R9!

Made by the Best Welder in the industry, Made in US, and it's one of the best bikes out!
You can run very low Sag, i'm running 45 Percent!


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

RiDe66 said:


> All data is from the Giant USA website...I didn't invent nothing here


JFYI, the chart that you posted says the seat angle is 69* and the head angle is 65.5*.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Since when is a shorter chainstay synonomous with a better cornering bike? One of the best cornering bikes I've ever ridden was a Gemini/Judge with an 18" stay. If you ride anything rocky the Glory will be a bit better with it's slightly different axle path. The leverage ratio is a bit more favorable on the Glory as well (despite popular belief it's actually quite whacked out on the Sunday). 

Giant has historically made a more solidly built product than IronHorse as well. Less cheesy.

Edit: In another whore-ish move my vote still goes for the R9.


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

DHidiot said:


> Since when is a shorter chainstay synonomous with a better cornering bike? One of the best cornering bikes I've ever ridden was a Gemini/Judge with an 18" stay. If you ride anything rocky the Glory will be a bit better with it's slightly different axle path. The leverage ratio is a bit more favorable on the Glory as well (despite popular belief it's actually quite whacked out on the Sunday).
> 
> Giant has historically made a more solidly built product than IronHorse as well. Less cheesy.


Okay, so almost all the trails around me are rocky. there is an occasional fast DH run.
Does the giant handle high speed stuff well in addition to rocks?


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

In my humble opinion, Giant is alot more FR orented. I'd go with IroHorse


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## RiDe66 (Aug 26, 2005)

PCinSC said:


> JFYI, the chart that you posted says the seat angle is 69* and the head angle is 65.5*.


Your right! Can't believe myself! Haaa I'll correct my post


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## hardcore newbie (Nov 6, 2004)

Sundays are major sweetness, fast as hell


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## snowforner15 (Oct 27, 2006)

my friend races his glory last yr (with boxxerWCs &some others) and he cant stop talking about it. if youre racing , ive never heard anything bad about the glory, it rails well and is fast as hell, can make it pretty darn light too. go with it.. unless your just freeriding, then i wouldnt be looking at more race bred bikes


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## AnythingThatRolls (Nov 30, 2006)

They're both killer bikes. But for your average broke dick mountain biker the Glory would be the better choice. The Sunday is good and even a little bit faster in the corners... but it has some problems. 

One, every Sunday I've seen has loose pivots. All the owners I know say they need a lot of maintenance if they're going to stay tight. The Giant's pivots on the other hand are pretty solid. 

Two, The Sunday has a notoriously low bottom bracket. This is probably why the bike is slightly faster. But also because of this of this it's damn dangerous! Some of the worst crashes happened when you snag your pedals... chances are, at some point you will snag your pedals when riding the Sunday. It's too low.

With that said, if I had a choice I would take the Sunday. But I still recommend the Glory


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

so from what im understanding, the sunday has slightly better cornering, but its not as good on technical sections due to the low bottom bracket. the glory has a better linkage system/linkage ratio, and is better on technical sections due to this linkage ratio, and the slightly higher bottom bracket.
If this is correct, im leaning twords the glory...


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## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

Do the Glory. You will not be disappointed.


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## FCLINDER (Sep 27, 2005)

I have been on both bikes and can say both would be sweet bikes to race on. The Sunday is a little lighter build out of the box than the Glory, but the build is better on the Glory. I too was trying to decide on what bike I wanted to race next year. After riding both I decided to go with the Glory. It felt more stable to me. Plus everyone and their father have a Sunday, I like to have something a little different an dit looks so sweet!!! I will have my 07 Glory show up next week. I do plan to change a lot of parts off of it. Bar, Stem, Seat Post, Seat, Wheelset, Tires, Chain Guide to a LG1, and brakes to all my sponsored parts. Bike should be somewhere from 39 to 40Lbs when done.


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## richy_a2r (Jul 13, 2006)

can't say something about the ironhorse, but i'm very happy with my glory (pic attached). The rear suspension works great (better than my 06 demo 9 did). Imo the boxxer wc is the best fork you can get for the glory. Will go for a DHX Air so I get under 18kg... (~17,8kg).


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## RiDe66 (Aug 26, 2005)

A lot of people are saying good things about the Glory. As I already said, both are good bikes but personnaly my vote goes to the Sunday. I'm not making my choice by looking at pro riders like Sam Hill that are riding Iron Horse but I do looking at the geometries. 

I'm pretty sure you can afford you the Sunday World cup but I must admit the Glory have a most balanced package that the Sunday Team. Just don't forget to swap the Hayes nine if you're a big guy. The hayes Mag are doing the work as the Juicy 5 & 7 are but if you want to go big, take a look at the Avid Code or the Hope M4/M6...

Both rear linkages are good as they are almost the sames and very pedalables but the Iron Horse has a lower Bottom bracket. Someone below said that a lower bottom bracket can make you crash easier. That's almost true as you will need to ajust you pedaling rythm with the terrain but once it's done, the lower bottom bracket will stick you to the ground in the corners. 

A longer wheelbase will also makes you more stable at hight speed. Here the IronHorse and the Glory are almost identical so don't matter with that but keep that in mind when choosing the proper size. A smaller wheelbase will help you to huck your bike and to corner faster. A longer one will stick you to the ground at high speed. Look at your local circuit and keep this in mind. 

An other guy said that the pivots were loosing faster on the Iron Horse. Maybe but this can always be solved by using blue locktight!  I'll suggest you to look also about the Intense M3 bike...A seed of champion trust me


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## FCLINDER (Sep 27, 2005)

Glory BB height is around 14.2" to 14.5" when the sag is setup right. You measure the BB with you on the bike not off.


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## mtb_biker (Jan 27, 2004)

FCLINDER said:


> I do plan to change a lot of parts off of it. Bar, Stem, Seat Post, Seat, Wheelset, Tires, Chain Guide to a LG1, and brakes to all my sponsored parts. Bike should be somewhere from 39 to 40Lbs when done.


Yea it seems a lot have Sunday's. You don't happen to know the weight of the Glory Frame do you?


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## =ChrisB= (Aug 8, 2006)

My vote still goes to the Sunday.


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## RuNDmC1087 (Sep 13, 2004)

Well if u wanna save a little money, go for a Turner DHR! think the BB is .3" higher than the sunday, and it has a steeper headange for better handeling, u can get them used for pretty damn cheap now :thumbsup:


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## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

mtb_biker said:


> Yea it seems a lot have Sunday's. You don't happen to know the weight of the Glory Frame do you?


Ive heard 11 to 13 lbs. but I could be wrong.


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

FCLINDER said:


> Glory BB height is around 14.2" to 14.5" when the sag is setup right. You measure the BB with you on the bike not off.


no you don't.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

dante said:


> no you don't.


Correct.


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## FCLINDER (Sep 27, 2005)

dante said:


> no you don't.


So you say you setup your ride with out your weight on the bike? Well if you want your ride height setup right you do.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

*holy misinformation...*



DHidiot said:


> Since when is a shorter chainstay synonomous with a better cornering bike? One of the best cornering bikes I've ever ridden was a Gemini/Judge with an 18" stay. If you ride anything rocky the Glory will be a bit better with it's slightly different axle path. The leverage ratio is a bit more favorable on the Glory as well (despite popular belief it's actually quite whacked out on the Sunday)..


Wow.
That's a whole lot of unsubstantiated bs you just spewed. :nono: 
1. shorter chainstays help a bike make sharper turns. This is simple geometry, and why buses don't make good racecars.

2. please explain how the axle path on the glory is better over rocky terrain. 

3. define whacked out, and explain what exactly about the leverage ratio on the glory is favorable to the sunday's. :skep:


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

*really?*



AnythingThatRolls said:


> One, every Sunday I've seen has loose pivots. All the owners I know say they need a lot of maintenance if they're going to stay tight. The Giant's pivots on the other hand are pretty solid.
> 
> Two, The Sunday has a notoriously low bottom bracket. This is probably why the bike is slightly faster. But also because of this of this it's damn dangerous! Some of the worst crashes happened when you snag your pedals... chances are, at some point you will snag your pedals when riding the Sunday. It's too low.


Hmmm...
My Sunday has no issues with loose pivots, and neither do my 5 other teamates who race sundays.

I've never crashed in dh from hitting my pedals. Honestly, its not something I even think about.


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## Ojai Bicyclist (Nov 4, 2005)

FCLINDER said:


> So you say you setup your ride with out your weight on the bike? Well if you want your ride height setup right you do.


That's just not where listed #s are measured. Yeah, it makes a bit more sense to measure every angle, height, etc. on a bike with a preditermined sag, say 35%, but that's not what everyone else does so it that's how you measure your #s will be worthless.


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## ThunderBringer#1 (Nov 2, 2005)

gloryholes rip


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## bikerbum99 (Sep 18, 2006)

> In my humble opinion, Giant is alot more FR orented. I'd go with IroHorse


wrong
the sunday and the glory are both very race oriented, however i do know the sunday is very fast, it corner great and the handleing in technical terrian is great
my vote goes to the sunday, after that the sinister R9


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## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

http://asilvertouch.com/features.php?feature_id=116

Read that, then come back and tell us what you think.

Glory all the way!


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## gline (Sep 5, 2006)

i vote glory, they are simply incredible. well, so are the sundays. but lifetime warranty on the glory, how can you resist.


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## fred.r (Sep 8, 2005)

RiDe66 said:


> I'll suggest you to look also about the Intense M3 bike...A seed of champion trust me


Just lookin at numbers and got curious, the M3 HA is 66.5 and the Sunday/Glory's are 65. How much of a difference is that 1.5 degree differense going to make w/ how the bike handels?


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

saweet. thanks guys. i think at this point im leaning twords the glory. it suits the terrain i ride better. has anyone heard anything good/bad about the GT IT-1? i already started a thread on that so if you want post it there...


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## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

The only thing I could see against the GT is that for the Glory, it would probably be easier to source parts. Thats just my opinion.


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## cribe (Dec 17, 2005)

RuNDmC1087 said:


> ...go for a Turner DHR! think the BB is .3" higher than the sunday...


BS. If you don't know what you are talking about, you can aswell shut up. Since when has 14,6" (DHR) minus 13,9" (sunday) been 3"?


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

*look closer*



cribe said:


> BS. If you don't know what you are talking about, you can aswell shut up. Since when has 14,6" (DHR) minus 13,9" (sunday) been 3"?


The math still doesn't work, but he said ZERO POINT THREE".

And I have no idea how you (jamip_dh) would be leaning toward anything based on what info has been given here. Who has said anything that leads you to believe the Glory will work better for your terrain? Is it rocky where you ride? Well guess what, it's rocky here (CO) and also on the east coast, where IH headquarters are, and they aren't hindered by the lower bb...


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

dbabuser said:


> And I have no idea how you (jamip_dh) would be leaning toward anything based on what info has been given here. Who has said anything that leads you to believe the Glory will work better for your terrain? Is it rocky where you ride? Well guess what, it's rocky here (CO) and also on the east coast, where IH headquarters are, and they aren't hindered by the lower bb...


It is rocky where i ride. and im sure i could ride the iron horse here no problem..but ive heard from others that iron horses service department isnt the best, and also that the suspension has a funky levrage ratio. but im still not sure which bike to get. im pretty much split.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

I still don't understand where the "funky" leverage ratio comment comes from. It's lower than most bikes - this is a good thing, and what a lot of new designs are working towards (Trek Session 10, Foes Mono 2:1). You can run a lighter weight spring, and it doesn't require as much damping to get the suspension to work correctly. The only thing that could be seen as a problem is that you can't install a non-Sunday shock and expect it to work correctly without getting it revalved. 
Also, the customer service is excellent. And how many companies have employees and the designer that you can interact with here on mtbr? Does Giant even know what mtbr is?


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

Go map it out. It's progressive for the first half of the travel then spikes back up hard in the last half. DW was claiming that the present model for the bike is inaccurate in its pivot placement, but 1) I mapped it out myself with all correct measurements and it's still whack and 2) even if all the pivots are off a tiny bit the shock rate still maintains its parabolic shape.

"Lower" leverage ratio is marketing BS. It's leverage curve is somewhat similar to a lot of other bikes but it averages out a little lower if you were to think about it with one straight ratio.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

Funny thing about this map you're so proud of - no matter what you came up with, the bike works awesome. You certainly don't feel anything "whack". That's what's important, if you actually ride bikes. 
And more shock stroke for the same amount of travel is going to equal a less stressed shock, which requires less spring and damping to contol motion. How is that marketing bs?


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

dbabuser said:


> Also, the customer service is excellent. And how many companies have employees and the designer that you can interact with here on mtbr? Does Giant even know what mtbr is?


Good point. and also a good point about it feels good regardless of what others say. are you just trying to promoted their product because you ride for them though? or do you really beleive in it?


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

I have a Sunday, and the year before, a 7 point. I got ok deals on them, but paid a lot closer to retail than sponsored deals. The shop we rode for last year carried Yeti's - I could've gotten a deal on a 303, or a V-10 or M3 thru another place. I liked my 7 Point enough to want a Sunday, and I'm not even considering getting a different bike for this season. 
And I've never heard anyone else claim that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the dw link design. I know for a fact other people have mapped it. Coincidence?


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## jamip_dh (Sep 17, 2006)

hmm this is intresting. ive heard good and bad about each bike, the only thing i wasnt diggin on the sunday was the low bb height at 13.9"
right now i have a kona stinky supreme and i just found out that the bottom bracket is much lower at 12.1". so i guess even _with_ the sunday i would be less prone to clipping pedals.


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## TheProphet (May 31, 2005)

Its up to you now man. It should now be between colors and what not. The IH has more choices within the Sunday line, but I still think the Giant is BA. Its up to you know. You have heard our speels, make your decision. Whichever you do, I have a feeling you will not be disappointed. You are choosing two great bikes.


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

DHidiot said:


> Go map it out. It's progressive for the first half of the travel then spikes back up hard in the last half. DW was claiming that the present model for the bike is inaccurate in its pivot placement, but 1) I mapped it out myself with all correct measurements and it's still whack and 2) even if all the pivots are off a tiny bit the shock rate still maintains its parabolic shape.
> 
> "Lower" leverage ratio is marketing BS. It's leverage curve is somewhat similar to a lot of other bikes but it averages out a little lower if you were to think about it with one straight ratio.


where exactly did you get the measurements? any (and I mean ANY) publication that we've put out we've modified the diagrams so that people *can't* copy it. we've also been careful to avoid perpendicular side-shots, and any of the informal pictures are going to be off by enough that it'll throw off the schematics. have you actually ridden one and felt this mysterious spiking? are you taking into consideration that the stroke of the shock is only 3", and will bottom out while there is still some movement available in the linkage? e-engineer it all you want, but you are talking squarely out of your ass.

as for the low leverage ratio, you're flat out wrong. a low leverage design allows the shock to work more efficiently, and to do what it's actually supposed to do. as your leverage ratio gets higher, you're asking the shock to control more and more wheel travel with less and less stroke movement. think about it. while I'm not claiming that any ratio is "perfect", the lower leverage rates work a LOT better.

jamip_dh, try to ride both and then go from there. that's really the only way to know if you're going to feel comfortable on a particular bike. pretty much anything is going to be a step up from the stab you're riding now. the bb will be a little lower (think that the stab's had mid 14s on bb height), but you get used to it REAL quick. you just learn to carry speed through the rocks instead of trying to pedal through them.


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

dante said:


> where exactly did you get the measurements? any (and I mean ANY) publication that we've put out we've modified the diagrams so that people *can't* copy it. we've also been careful to avoid perpendicular side-shots, and any of the informal pictures are going to be off by enough that it'll throw off the schematics. have you actually ridden one and felt this mysterious spiking? are you taking into consideration that the stroke of the shock is only 3", and will bottom out while there is still some movement available in the linkage? e-engineer it all you want, but you are talking squarely out of your ass.
> 
> as for the low leverage ratio, you're flat out wrong. a low leverage design allows the shock to work more efficiently, and to do what it's actually supposed to do. as your leverage ratio gets higher, you're asking the shock to control more and more wheel travel with less and less stroke movement. think about it. while I'm not claiming that any ratio is "perfect", the lower leverage rates work a LOT better.
> 
> jamip_dh, try to ride both and then go from there. that's really the only way to know if you're going to feel comfortable on a particular bike. pretty much anything is going to be a step up from the stab you're riding now. the bb will be a little lower (think that the stab's had mid 14s on bb height), but you get used to it REAL quick. you just learn to carry speed through the rocks instead of trying to pedal through them.


I got the measurements from the bike itself. I'm aware it's a 3" stroke. I'm aware the suspension still has room to move before a mechanical interruption on bottom out. Yes I can feel it in the last 1/3 or so of the stroke. The beginning stroke leverage ratio is not significantly less than any modern DH frame's leverage ratio, it just hit's a very low point about 2/3 - 3/4 way through it's travel.

I'm an actual engineer - I don't need to "e-engineer" anything jackass. E13/IH/whoever has their lips around DW's wang will be the next Specialized of marketing hype yet.


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## dante (Jan 12, 2004)

so it "spikes up hard" in the last 1/3 of its stroke? or does it hit a low point at 2/3rds of the way through its stroke? I'm totally confused at what you're trying to say...


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

It does both. It does not spike all the way up to the maximum leverage that it has in the beginning of its stroke though.


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## dbabuser (Jan 5, 2004)

*wow, very impressive*



DHidiot said:


> I'm an actual engineer - I don't need to "e-engineer" anything jackass. /QUOTE]
> 
> So wow, you're an actual engineer. :eekster: Why didn't you say so sooner? You must be the smartest guy on the internet!


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## Ridge Rider (Sep 21, 2005)

DHidiot said:


> It does both. It does not spike all the way up to the maximum leverage that it has in the beginning of its stroke though.


The Sunday has a leverage curve that is relatively flat compared to most other designs. It is mildly progressive in the first half of the travel and mildly falling rate in the second half of the travel. The relatively flat curve and the mildly falling rate at the end should reduce spiking.

Specialized has gone to a less progressive curve on the 07 Demos to improve square hit performance. Bikes like the Orange 224 that are known for big hit and square hit performance have leverage curves that are close to flat.


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## juanpkumicho (Nov 14, 2008)

*wrong*

hey super engineer, you are wrong as is everything you said.

Ask ANY real vehicle dynamics engineer, or even better, a MotoGP engineer...

Suspension leverage ratios (really called motion ratios) are of NO use if you do not include the shock you're using. And I am not talking about the shock's stroke or eye to eye length, but the actual damping curves (for EVERY damping setting) and the shock's air spring.

But I guess you work at FOX and have all that info to say the Sunday's linkage is whack, or even better, you have your own shock dyno and got your FOX shox tested with every possible setting, and then included all that in your super linkage model.

The motion ratio itself means nothing, the normal force in the tire's contact patch is what will affect your ride, and that will not be whack when including the shock's progressiveness. Maybe it will not be as peaky as other bikes, but certainly not decreasing or something.

As for the BB height or loose linkage, I have never seen a Sunday with loose linkage, and I own mine and LOVE the low BB, in fact I rode my friend's 2010 Demo 8, which has a lower BB than my Sunday and it was even better.


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## PCinSC (Oct 25, 2005)

juanpkumicho said:


> hey super engineer, you are wrong as is everything you said.
> 
> Ask ANY real vehicle dynamics engineer, or even better, a MotoGP engineer...


Soooo, how does it feel to argue with someone from four years in the past?


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## chauzie (Mar 8, 2010)

^ "Back To The Future"


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## Moosey (May 18, 2010)

If i were you i'd go with the glory because theres more pictures of it on this thread =]


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## DHidiot (Aug 5, 2004)

juanpkumicho said:


> I have never seen a Sunday with loose linkage


This is how I know not to take you seriously. Don't feed the trolls people.

BTW, real engineers refer to them as "wheel rate" and "shock rate" as they are the inverse of one another - not "motion ratio".


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## b-kul (Sep 20, 2009)

wow you really brought up a 4 year old thread to argue over a bike that isnt produced anymore?


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