# Wheelbuild for 285lb rider help



## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Hello all, as the title says I'm about 280lbs trying to get to biking and like many like me I worry about my wheels giving out. I just got a GT Sensor sport a week ago and I've riden it 3 times the past week on pavement and all was good, except I feel the wheels could roll a little better. So, here I am thinking about a wheel build that could handle my weight better. 

My current wheelset is:
Formula DC511 hubs
WTB STX i25 TCS 32H

I'm thinking of getting ($866 usd from wheel builder)
Hope Pro 4 (maybe DTSwiss 350?)
DT Swiss XM481 or XM521 32H
straight gauge spokes

Will this be enough for my weight? or should I go with a 36H rim/hub (DT HX531 or SUN mtx33) set laced with some straight/single butted spokes? I'd really hate to have to scour the web for 36H versions of the components I need 

Thanks in advance


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## JREinMN (Mar 15, 2007)

mikesabino said:


> Hello all, as the title says I'm about 280lbs trying to get to biking and like many like me I worry about my wheels giving out. I just got a GT Sensor sport a week ago and I've riden it 3 times the past week on pavement and all was good, except I feel the wheels could roll a little better. So, here I am thinking about a wheel build that could handle my weight better.
> 
> My current wheelset is:
> Formula DC511 hubs
> ...


I'm anywhere between 265-275. That wheelset you're proposing to build would be a sweet upgrade.


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## KThaxton (Jun 4, 2009)

I'd go for the DT 350 hubs.....I have sworn off pawls for good.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I like everything about your build EXCEPT the straight guage spokes. Go with something double butted like DT Swiss Comps or Sapim Race. I like Hope hubs. I have em on a few of my bikes. You will have to swap the axle bearings out to something better in short order but once you do, they'll be fine. DT Swiss 350 is fine as well. 
Go as wide as you can with the rim that will fit in the frame. 32 spokes will be fine Black brass nipples too. I weigh 265 right now. I never ruin wheels. The key is having them tensioned and balanced by someone who knows what they're doing. 
Hit up Mikesee on here.


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

Maybe I'm missing context, but what kind of riding?



KThaxton said:


> I'd go for the DT 350 hubs.....I have sworn off pawls for good.


I agree with this. When I was in the 240 pound range I blew up a couple Hope Pro hubs, destroyed pawls and also destroyed the aluminum splines. Maybe Hope has upped their game, but DT has been bulletproof over many years for me.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Ogre said:


> Maybe I'm missing context, but what kind of riding?
> 
> I agree with this. When I was in the 240 pound range I blew up a couple Hope Pro hubs, destroyed pawls and also destroyed the aluminum splines. Maybe Hope has upped their game, but DT has been bulletproof over many years for me.


Im new to biking and theres some kind of desert trail near where I live (Im an expat in Doha, Qatar). No big drops nor jumps... I plan on hitting that trail when I get used to my bike and maybe get some endurance for it.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

NYrr496 said:


> I like everything about your build EXCEPT the straight guage spokes. Go with something double butted like DT Swiss Comps or Sapim Race. I like Hope hubs. I have em on a few of my bikes. You will have to swap the axle bearings out to something better in short order but once you do, they'll be fine. DT Swiss 350 is fine as well.
> Go as wide as you can with the rim that will fit in the frame. 32 spokes will be fine Black brass nipples too. I weigh 265 right now. I never ruin wheels. The key is having them tensioned and balanced by someone who knows what they're doing.
> Hit up Mikesee on here.


Thank you very much for your input, Im considering the DT350 now. Would an i9 hydra be a step up than the DT350 or the Hope? That maybe the upper limit of my budget, Im just drawn to the bling lol


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

mikesabino said:


> Im new to biking and theres some kind of desert trail near where I live (Im an expat in Doha, Qatar). No big drops nor jumps... I plan on hitting that trail when I get used to my bike and maybe get some endurance for it.


Your wheel build is fine. As I mentioned, I prefer the DT hubs. Also as someone else mentioned, double butted spokes are just as strong.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Ogre said:


> Your wheel build is fine. As I mentioned, I prefer the DT hubs. Also as someone else mentioned, double butted spokes are just as strong.


Thank you for your input, I really appreciate it.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

mikesabino said:


> Thanks in advance


I am currently at the process of making a rear wheel. The video should be on the channel within a week or two. I am 240-250lbs fully kitted out and I always had problems with rear wheels until I started to build them in a particular fashion. In short:


drive-side spokes a gauge or two thicker then non gauge - for my freeride and enduro wheels I use straight 2.3mm (13 ga I think ) drive side, and 2mm non drive side ( ga 14 I believe ). No problems since I've been doing it. My longest lasting wheel is currently 8 years old and is still doing fine.
steel hub axle if possible
steel frame axle if possible

Different spoke gauges balance the wheel dish, essentially making the wheel behave like a dishless one. Steel axles make sure that the peculiar design of the modern hub, with a massive axle overhang ( them essentially being screw-on freewheels ) gets nicely stiffend.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

NEVER had an issue with Hope hubs even riding as heavy as 320 pounds. Still run Hope hubs now at 265. No one problem with them in 10+ years of riding. Always laced with double butted spokes and brass nips. Currently on WTB Frequency rims on two bikes and haven't missed a beat. DT Swiss are great hubs but you are severally limited in engagement. 18 stock. You can upgrade to 36 I believe or 54 but I understand that heavy/strong riders tend to have issues with the 54 because teeth engagement is too small. My single speed is I9 Classic and it's been amazing so far. Engagement almost instant...good enough that I might be an I9 convert away from Hopes.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Nubster said:


> NEVER had an issue with Hope hubs even riding as heavy as 320 pounds. Still run Hope hubs now at 265. No one problem with them in 10+ years of riding. Always laced with double butted spokes and brass nips. Currently on WTB Frequency rims on two bikes and haven't missed a beat. DT Swiss are great hubs but you are severally limited in engagement. 18 stock. You can upgrade to 36 I believe or 54 but I understand that heavy/strong riders tend to have issues with the 54 because teeth engagement is too small. My single speed is I9 Classic and it's been amazing so far. Engagement almost instant...good enough that I might be an I9 convert away from Hopes.


Thank you very much for your response, I might stick with the hope then for the bling. About the nipples are alloy that bad for clydes?


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

uzurpator said:


> I am currently at the process of making a rear wheel. The video should be on the channel within a week or two. I am 240-250lbs fully kitted out and I always had problems with rear wheels until I started to build them in a particular fashion. In short:
> 
> 
> drive-side spokes a gauge or two thicker then non gauge - for my freeride and enduro wheels I use straight 2.3mm (13 ga I think ) drive side, and 2mm non drive side ( ga 14 I believe ). No problems since I've been doing it. My longest lasting wheel is currently 8 years old and is still doing fine.
> ...


thanks! I'll keep an eye out for your video.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

mikesabino said:


> Thank you very much for your response, I might stick with the hope then for the bling. About the nipples are alloy that bad for clydes?


Alloy ones are known to split sometimes.


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## NYrr496 (Sep 10, 2008)

I used to believe that alloy nipples were no good for clydes but the materials seem to have improved over the years. I used to build wheels for a guy who was a retired racer and he noticed all of my own wheels had brass nipples. He convinced me to try alloy and I've had 100% success but my bikes are fat and plus. Lots of tire volume. I wonder how they would survive with 2.3" tires. 
I'm also under the impression that the Hydra hubs won't stand up to clyde tomfoolery. The only guys that ask me for Hydra hubs are skinnies.


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## unerlaubt (Aug 2, 2019)

mikesabino said:


> Im new to biking and theres some kind of desert trail near where I live (Im an expat in Doha, Qatar). No big drops nor jumps... I plan on hitting that trail when I get used to my bike and maybe get some endurance for it.


,


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

NYrr496 said:


> I'm also under the impression that the Hydra hubs won't stand up to clyde tomfoolery.


They are out of my price range anyway...but that would be disappointing. So far my I9 Classics have been great and that near-instant engagement is amazing. I use that hub on my single-speed where the engagement is a lot more noticeable to me than on a geared bike, though I'm sure I'd appreciate it on a geared bike too.


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## Nubster (May 15, 2009)

Verboten said:


> Wondering why you are concerned with replacing your wheels when you are both a beginner and riding in Qatar over tame terrain. The stock wheels on your bike will be fine for your intended use. Upgrades them if and when your wear out the stock wheels, which is unlikely.
> 
> Even if you ventured over to Oman, your stock wheels would be fine. Everything over there is largely jeep roads with the occasional rock outcropping or baby heads. You really just need to be worried about oncoming traffic and locals jumping landcruisers


Well...stock hubs are notorious for being crap and even more so under the stress and power bigs guys put on them. I say that never having had issues on a stock hub...but I also don't tend to keep mine stock too long. But the stories are quite abundant about hub failures from cheap stock units and even better non-OEM stuff. If someone has the extra coin, the rear hub isn't the worst place to start the upgrade path on a bike.


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## unerlaubt (Aug 2, 2019)

Nubster said:


> Well...stock hubs are notorious for being crap and even more so under the stress and power bigs guys put on them. I say that never having had issues on a stock hub...but I also don't tend to keep mine stock too long. But the stories are quite abundant about hub failures from cheap stock units and even better non-OEM stuff. If someone has the extra coin, the rear hub isn't the worst place to start the upgrade path on a bike.


.,


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## drjos (Jan 25, 2004)

re: alloy nipples. CN AC144, Sapim Double Square, and DT SQUORX are excellent. The extra support of the threads through the head, plus the square backs for wheel building make these my go-to. The DNs are easily available on amazon.


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## uzurpator (Dec 8, 2005)

My experience with aluminum nipples is that they corrode and a are a PITA to extract. But this is spoken from a place which sees winters and road salt. That and they limit the spoke tension, but that can be managed with a little lubrication during lacing.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

drjos said:


> re: alloy nipples. CN AC144, Sapim Double Square, and DT SQUORX are excellent. The extra support of the threads through the head, plus the square backs for wheel building make these my go-to. The DNs are easily available on amazon.


Thanks, I was looking at the Sapim Double Square just recently and wondered if they'd still be that far off from brass in terms of durability.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Verboten said:


> Have you ever ridden in Qatar, Dubai, Oman, or Kuwait? It's nothing extreme that a walmart bike can't handle, even if rolling heavy. The most challenging obstacles are dropping curbs LOL. Now, if you need to bling out to flex, dropping coin on the gold plated XX1 drivetrain and replacing that suspension and dropper with some Kashima coated wonder will keep you up with the Joneses (or Abadis in this case)


Hi you seem to be very familiar with the gulf region trails. Did you live here at some point? At the start of a rather tame 5km trail we have this little playground with some "curbs" as you said.









About the upgrade, I was looking for something that would roll smoother (paired with low rolling resistance tyres) to help my heavy self go farther. At 277lbs (I weighed myself this morning), I tire out after about a 7km 36minute run bike. Its not about the flex, but yeah that does come as a bonus doesn't it?


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Nubster said:


> Well...stock hubs are notorious for being crap and even more so under the stress and power bigs guys put on them. I say that never having had issues on a stock hub...but I also don't tend to keep mine stock too long. But the stories are quite abundant about hub failures from cheap stock units and even better non-OEM stuff. If someone has the extra coin, the rear hub isn't the worst place to start the upgrade path on a bike.


My sentiments exactly, I biked to work 10km one way when I lived in Manila, the commute was made more enjoyable when I changed my then stock wheelset to a custom set laced to a hub with smooth sealed bearings. Night and day difference in pedalling efficiency and ease.

Thank you very much for your comment by the way.


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## unerlaubt (Aug 2, 2019)

mikesabino said:


> Hi you seem to be very familiar with the gulf region trails. Did you live here at some point? At the start of a rather tame 5km trail we have this little playground with some "curbs" as you said.
> 
> About the upgrade, I was looking for something that would roll smoother (paired with low rolling resistance tyres) to help my heavy self go farther. At 277lbs (I weighed myself this morning), I tire out after about a 7km 36minute run bike. Its not about the flex, but yeah that does come as a bonus doesn't it?


.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Verboten said:


> Yes, I have spent extensive time living and traveling in the region. For the record, my comment was to the other guy
> 
> So did they build that pile of pallets behind the post apocalyptic themed Last Exit station
> I went to Kuwait's mountain bike "race" out on the Mutla Ridge a while back. It was pretty funny, dirty desert with the occasional man made obstacle or jump interspersed around the course. At least they tried I guess.
> ...


I agree I shouldve gotten a hardtail instead, I was going to get a hardtail, that was the plan when I went to the shop but somehow ended up taking the full sus home, given my weight its not the most logical decision I must admit. But now that its here and Im still heavy, I focused on the wheelset eyeing some improvement in roll.

Its probably also just me being too conscious about my weight thinking Im gonna wreck this thing going down the curb.

Anyway thanks for your input


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## Decoy20 (May 26, 2021)

mikesabino said:


> Hello all, as the title says I'm about 280lbs trying to get to biking and like many like me I worry about my wheels giving out. I just got a GT Sensor sport a week ago and I've riden it 3 times the past week on pavement and all was good, except I feel the wheels could roll a little better. So, here I am thinking about a wheel build that could handle my weight better.
> 
> My current wheelset is:
> Formula DC511 hubs
> ...


@mikesabino - Don't give up on full-suspension and a proper wheel-set! I'm at least 270-275 in riding gear. I think proper wheels are easier to obtain than a proper rear-shock but that's another story.

If you haven't pulled the trigger on wheels yet, I *strongly advise *contacting wheel-builder Bill Mould Bill Mould Wheels - Custom Wheel Builder. Email: *[email protected]. * I spent at least an hour on the phone w/ him and learned a ton. He actually does wheelbuilding courses/classes. He advises against straight-gauge spokes by the way as they've proven no stronger (weaker in fact at the points of stress) than DB spokes. It's explained in some of his Youtube vids, but DB allows some stretch in the middle and relieves strain at the points of contact (which is where they always break).

I've not had issues with wheels in the past until I got an enduro bike and started riding faster and harder. 2-years into my YT Jeffsy29 ownership, I started popping rear spokes all of a sudden Most irritatingly...one at a time. So you end up paying full-labor to basically de-tension the wheel, fix the spoke, re-tension, new tubeless sealant, etc. I didn't realize it until I broke my 3rd spoke and talked to Bill...he said they'll all be breaking in the next several rides since I've exhausted their usable life. Those wheels were E*Thirteen TRS+ trail wheels, 28F/28R.

My current bike YT Decoy29 comes with DT Swiss "Hybrid" H 1700 SPLINE wheelset. Also 28H F/R. So-far-so good ?. I don't know which model rims comes on the 1700 but it uses 350 hubs. If you're building from scratch, I'd recommend DT's Enduro EX series or stouter as they have 130kg system weight rating ~ 287 lbs.

Bill would also recommend 32H minimum for you (as he did for me). When (not if) I need new wheels for my Decoy, I'll be going to him to build them. According to his website, he charges $75/wheel for labor which I think is very reasonable.

I haven't talked to Wheelbuilder, but I like their website for price-estimates. I'm sure they do a good job too. But I think the things to remember are:

Strength comes from simple things, like a proper build...not fancy parts.
DB spokes. not straight spokes - they don't help.
32H is probably good, you can even do 36H if you're worried!
Consider Enduro, DH or E-bike rated rims. See: https://www.dtswiss.com/pmt/00/00/00/00/00/00/00/10/00/00/00/88/5/MAN_WXWASTMSWWRXXS_WEB_ZZ_001.pdf
Good luck in your search! Let me know what you end up going with.


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## Sasquatch1413 (Nov 6, 2008)

340ish here, run WTB asym i35 32h rims, sapim race spokes, brass nips,dt swiss hub. Very durable. If you are looking at wheel builders, Mike Curiak might have the best resume for building big boy wheels, highly recommend him.


https://lacemine29.com/


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## shib (Sep 20, 2020)

Started out at 360lbs and down to 282 now (yay!), but what worked flawlessly for me where 32H DT HX581 rims with Alpine III spokes, Squorx brass nipples and 350 Hybrid hubs. The DT Hybrid stuff is normally used for e-bikes because they're heavier, so that seemed to make a lot of sense to use them! I rode them on a 27.5+ bike and the only thing that broke was the bike frame  wheels are going perfectly strong, never needed revision. Now that I' down under 300lbs I got myself a nice coil sprung FS bike and laced up some 29ers from 32H HX531 rims and the same spokes and hubs, and they've been stress-free so far too. They're heavy, yes, but I guess when tensioned up properly they'll withstand a lot more than I could throw at them.

Regarding 32 vs. 36, a wheelbuilder told me that when using the materials I intended to use, 32 or 36 wouldn't make much difference as the rim itself is already very stiff, and 36H might actually make the whole thing _too_ stiff when using the ultra-strong spokes I intended to use. Another thing to consider was that it's not entire sure if 36H stuff will still be available for spares in a few years, as he sees a tendency to use less spokes, i.e. 32 or even 28, even on DTs e-bike-approved machine-built wheelsets (like the DT H1900). Just a personal opinion of someone, but as he's a professional wheelbuilder he might be right - dunno!


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## Todd0131 (Dec 8, 2019)

Built up a set of ARC30 rims with some Hope hubs, Sapir spokes, brass nips. Have been solid for a while now


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## Ogre (Feb 17, 2005)

mikesabino said:


> Hi you seem to be very familiar with the gulf region trails. Did you live here at some point? At the start of a rather tame 5km trail we have this little playground with some "curbs" as you said.
> 
> About the upgrade, I was looking for something that would roll smoother (paired with low rolling resistance tyres) to help my heavy self go farther. At 277lbs (I weighed myself this morning), I tire out after about a 7km 36minute run bike. Its not about the flex, but yeah that does come as a bonus doesn't it?


I have to say that picture really makes me happy I don't live there.

That looks like an awesome way of making something kind-of awesome out of inexpensive materials. But still... I couldn't live there.

The funny thing is the pallets. Here in the PNW they might a few full seasons before problems. In the desert, that's probably good for 10 years. Does wood get brittle when it gets super dried out?


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Decoy20 said:


> @mikesabino - Don't give up on full-suspension and a proper wheel-set! I'm at least 270-275 in riding gear. I think proper wheels are easier to obtain than a proper rear-shock but that's another story.
> 
> If you haven't pulled the trigger on wheels yet, I *strongly advise *contacting wheel-builder Bill Mould Bill Mould Wheels - Custom Wheel Builder. Email: *[email protected]. * I spent at least an hour on the phone w/ him and learned a ton. He actually does wheelbuilding courses/classes. He advises against straight-gauge spokes by the way as they've proven no stronger (weaker in fact at the points of stress) than DB spokes. It's explained in some of his Youtube vids, but DB allows some stretch in the middle and relieves strain at the points of contact (which is where they always break).
> 
> ...


Hello thank you very much for your response,

I ended up getting the Hope Pro 4 hubs 32h laced to DT Swiss HX 531 using Sapim Race spokes with brass nips.

I used WheelProject.com for this build as they readily had the hubs. Its been shipped as per the site, Im jist waiting for it to arrive.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

shib said:


> Started out at 360lbs and down to 282 now (yay!), but what worked flawlessly for me where 32H DT HX581 rims with Alpine III spokes, Squorx brass nipples and 350 Hybrid hubs. The DT Hybrid stuff is normally used for e-bikes because they're heavier, so that seemed to make a lot of sense to use them! I rode them on a 27.5+ bike and the only thing that broke was the bike frame  wheels are going perfectly strong, never needed revision. Now that I' down under 300lbs I got myself a nice coil sprung FS bike and laced up some 29ers from 32H HX531 rims and the same spokes and hubs, and they've been stress-free so far too. They're heavy, yes, but I guess when tensioned up properly they'll withstand a lot more than I could throw at them.
> 
> Regarding 32 vs. 36, a wheelbuilder told me that when using the materials I intended to use, 32 or 36 wouldn't make much difference as the rim itself is already very stiff, and 36H might actually make the whole thing _too_ stiff when using the ultra-strong spokes I intended to use. Another thing to consider was that it's not entire sure if 36H stuff will still be available for spares in a few years, as he sees a tendency to use less spokes, i.e. 32 or even 28, even on DTs e-bike-approved machine-built wheelsets (like the DT H1900). Just a personal opinion of someone, but as he's a professional wheelbuilder he might be right - dunno!


Wow on your weight loss!

Ive got the HX531 laced to a Hope Pro 4 with sapim race spokes. Thanks to yours and a lot of comments here, Im feeling better about my decision to go with the components I chose.

Can't wait to get the wheelset and try it out.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Ogre said:


> I have to say that picture really makes me happy I don't live there.
> 
> That looks like an awesome way of making something kind-of awesome out of inexpensive materials. But still... I couldn't live there.
> 
> The funny thing is the pallets. Here in the PNW they might a few full seasons before problems. In the desert, that's probably good for 10 years. Does wood get brittle when it gets super dried out?


These pallets would probably go brittle in the desert heat in the long run. Its not too bad here, except in the summer (june to august), other months are actually nice.


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

I got the tracking today! hopefully I get the wheelset soon


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## Decoy20 (May 26, 2021)

mikesabino said:


> So I got scammed by WheelProject.com, I ordered a wheelset from WheelProject.com last May 29th that was supposedly been shipped out June 2nd. I was expecting some kind of tracking information regarding the order to be sent shortly following the notice that the order was shipped but I did not get any. My order history from the site shows my order as shipped but nowhere is there any kind of shipping/tracking information other than saying its "shipped".
> 
> June 4th, I sent an email asking for tracking information regarding my order. I did not get any response.
> 
> ...


@mikesabino - That's awful to hear! I hope you're able to get Paypal to intervene (or your Credit Card company?).

I can affirm that I've spoken personally to wheel-builder Bill Mould. He was generous enough to discuss wheels for over an hour with me by phone and didn't get a cent out of it.

He's a real guy and works out of a local LBS - Spokes Etc. bicycle shop in Alexandria, VA, (703-820-2200). He's not going anywhere (unless he retires). Your money goes to Spokes and they pay him directly from what I understand.

Bill Mould Wheels - Custom Wheel Builder. Email: *[email protected]. *


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## Decoy20 (May 26, 2021)

Here's a small example of the level of engineering detail that Bill goes into.





This scene at 2:18 blows my mind when he starts cutting spokes:





Other food for thought here: Technical Videos - Bill Mould Wheels


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## mikesabino (May 20, 2021)

Update: I was just sent the tra


Decoy20 said:


> @mikesabino - That's awful to hear! I hope you're able to get Paypal to intervene (or your Credit Card company?).
> 
> I can affirm that I've spoken personally to wheel-builder Bill Mould. He was generous enough to discuss wheels for over an hour with me by phone and didn't get a cent out of it.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this, Wheelproject just got in touch with me by sending me the tracking number. Needless to say I overreacted a little bit, freaking out over not getting any response from them. All good now, package is on its way.


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## Grabbit (Apr 27, 2021)

Any thoughts on a similar build but using WTB KOM Tough rims? Looking at DT Swiss 350s or Spank Hex hubs....


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Grabbit said:


> Any thoughts on a similar build but using WTB KOM Tough rims? Looking at DT Swiss 350s or Spank Hex hubs....


It's really tough to beat the 350 hubs.

KOM Tough rims are OK.


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