# Osram LED



## ManxShred (Jun 18, 2008)

Anyone worked with this LED?
Osram Ostar

It looks like the power consumption is a bit high, and the heat could be a problem...


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Thats ALOT of power, but 17watt draw, basically it's 6 LED's but there slightly less efficent than the P7 with a 900 rating for 12watts.

60Euro's nearly, thats EXPENSIVE P7's a fraction of that.


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## doogs (May 29, 2007)

ive got a couple sitting in the drawer, still havent got around to using them. The P7 is definately cheaper but is let down by the fact that there are very few drivers available and the ones that are are not really suited to bike light applications. Your best bet would be to wait for the new 4 die cree. But if your dead keen on the ostar cutter electronics have optics for them and the maxflex2 is what im planning on running mine with.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

15W ->700lumen @ 19V & 700ma ~ 70lum/w. I have attached a pic of the driver using a Linear chip.

At 15w its brighter & whiter than L&M Arc. The extra set of wires going to the LED is a NTC for temp control.

$36 @ Digikey.

Rabbit


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

No problem! The greener fields for some friends and I are wide open because of bad rumors.

Yes, you could say we played with lots of Osram stuff. We first pulled off the trick back in Oct. 2007 by making a bunch of 1000 lumen Ostar lights with 4 brightness levels. We made our own converters specifically for the light. Bright? Believe it! The area is bathed in light. Some described it as too bright but more have said it is the most beautiful, smooth, beam they have ever seen.

Osram has an unfounded bad rap. Not many have tried them and if they did then they would find they are great and have many advantages. I don't know where the rumor started with them being inefficient. People also incorrectly say they get too hot. After lots of fun, we are still using them.

Next we toyed with the Platinum Dragon; both bare and domed in a light that is smaller then your thumb.

Now it is time for the newest Diamond Dragon. Again, they are first-class emitters. We are at the point of that we could try a few SSC P7s, maybe both to test the difference. They should be ready in weeks.

Yeah, we like the Osram stuff. It beat a cluster of emitters for a spot and huge spill beam. You get what you pay for.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Too be fair the output on those looks seriously impressive.

don't waste your time on the P7 crap way of emmiting the light wait for the CREE offering or 1 of these.

Where can I buy 1 of these OSRAM's torches for reasonible money ?? DX don't do them sadly!!


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## Guest (Jul 3, 2008)

lumitronix sell the emitter and I found some torches on pro-light.jp 
when I first looked it was in english, now it only comes up in japenese.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Maybe you had your Babel fish in 

I'm coming up blank to, they look seriously kick ass output wise!!


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Pioneering makes initial costs high and risks evident yet the rewards are pure treasures. Today, the Ostar remains in limited custom lights with the expected higher costs of a rare product. LOL&#8230;if manufacturers would oblige us then the great Ostars would make awesome lighting. As it stands, Ostar lights dwell in the realm of custom makers and the serious, all rare people.




























The website in Japan shows the cousin Ostar lights, the R2X - what I affectionately call the "Light Saber." They were built at the same time with the Japanese lights specifically designed for Osram's rolling exhibition so they have a futuristic flavor. Amazing machining with the same internal dimensions. Ours are more for use in the field so a more compact design with hard-anodizing required.

Many have looked over the advantages of the Ostar for performance because they don't know how to get it to work. From a hobbyist standpoint, the P7 is the winner because initially it is easier to work with but may show problems later. The Ostar is high-tech and not hard to deal with - it is something a manufacturer could handle with ease. For the near future, Ostar lights will remain rare as hen's teeth.

Comparing performance between the Ostars and the P7s, Ostars wins on reliability. Sounds like an arrogant declaration? Performance is not just light output.

Direct-drive with P7s are good for a while as they use low-voltage but require massive current. To keep them running, get a few batteries with lots of capacity. But this is known; with high current switching you eventually get switch-fouling, an insulating carbon build-up like a build up of oxidation. It's a slow build up and additive so your performance decreases every time the light is used. At the worst, they could suddenly wink out. Yeah, regular maintenance with Deoxit would work but I'd rather pass the extra work and go riding.

P7s with converters is the next step up, a better combination, but the electronics have to be rather big to support large current draw making a bigger converter bigger, heavier, converter. Heat sinks have to be bigger and that adds more weight. On a bike, space and weight are desired premiums so thinking small means thinking light-weight. If you can live with the limitations then by all means give the P7 lumen emitter a try.

So we come to the Ostar. The Ostar is the counter to the others, an unseen advantage. It wants voltage but uses little current. Initial thoughts would be to stack lots of heavy batteries to get the required minimum of 18-volts so the shortsighted wrote it off. Uh, too heavy&#8230;_good-bye!_ What is so wrong about using a boost converter? They have been used for years and are cheap. Ostars are high-tech devices so they use a converter and a few lightweight batteries. Parts can remain small because of little current. You've seen the pocket-able light with the small Surefire KL4 head - something a P7 can't do because the parts are too big. Even if the Ostar was direct-drive, there would be very little switch-fouling because of little current flow. Of course the initial obstacle remains - getting a converter to bump up the voltage but as you can see it's been done many times. There is no magic; there is current drain from the batteries to the converter as the voltage is stepped up but high-performance batteries are common. In fact, rechargeables are preferred because they can take the big current drain. But in an Ostar light, the switch controls the converter with little current demand. Bottom line - no switch-fouling.

One more for ya. The Ostar has a more apparent advantage. A P7 using low voltage is very dependent on secure connections. A questionable connection or any fouling could lower the voltage, perhaps 10%, so the emitter instantly quits. A higher voltage emitter has a broader voltage and is much less dependent on the flow of current making a 10% reduction less or not unnoticeable. Nice design.

We were playing with the Ostar light versus a 15W HID diving light and the Ostar kept up. Of course Ostar could do the "insta-start", brightness change, and could do the flip and bounce off the grass trick better.

I hope I don't sound too preachy. We've done lots of study and tests.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

The output was GREAT, P7's are crap realy entirely on the reflector to get any light forward, I'm HUGELY sold on the Concept, likely going to just wait for the new CREE Light though, and try another P7 cause the Trustfire was utterly useless.

Whats the betting, Lupine use OSTAR soon there current batch suffers from patchy light even with multiple SSC P4's, certainly give them a kick above the rest, they'd just run a 18V battery mass to run time works out the same at the end of the day so why not.

Hope DX get some in for say $100-$120 per pop area, I'd give that a try.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

T...I'm betting Lupine does Ostar first - It'd be really a nice set up.

Have you checked out this DX TrustFire light? Using two 18670, the P7 has a chance of achieving maximum brightness on a budget.

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.12761


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Thats the twin battery version of what I bought, the single version is heavy enough, it's HUGE and like 400grams with single battery and crap reflector that burned in seconds, so no thanks I'll pass on that 

Its just the way SSC's produce there light, isn't good for bike lights.

I tried running mine on 2 x CR123a's to see the extra voltage would help and burned out the switch doh!!! After spending HOURS polishing the Reflector back to bare Alu cause the other stuff died the death!!


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

I wondered about that light. With your un-recommendation, I'll surely pass on it. If a single cells burns, twice the power, ugh, no thanks! LOL!

I avoid the Cree because of the chocolate donut in the beam. I usually like donuts but not stuffed in a light. The next gen could prove better.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

My Crees are all nice and lovely, especially the R2's very bright no donut, the P7's donut city though, as I say crappy reflector. ( 40min run time and can't take 18650's lets it down though )

So the CREE MR-E 4 emmitor like the P7 should be KICK ASS!! and cheap compared to the OSTAR ??

I'll order the MTE P7 on DX, the 8 mode 1 on someone else heres rec though when it's in stock. The move that from Head to Bar when the new CREE's are out.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Ostars really aren’t too expensive if you look around. I won’t admit any close to the source connections. 

I actually have the most trouble with Crees. P7s work and the Rebel is quite good but the recalled really hurt their sales.

Osram…hmmm. Check out the Dragon line.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

We made friends with Osram 'cause we kept using their emitters. Everyone benefited. Last year, it was tough holding back that we had 1000 lumen emitters in lights before they were made.

A few converted the older 410 lumen Ostars into Maglites. We took a longer because we started with a clean slate. It wasn't easy. Where do you start, what converter, power source, size, heat sink? In the end and for fun, we threw in brightness control and thermal sensing. Also made a new, stacked, converter.

Osram saw the initial designs and helped by letting us get some of their new engineering samples, the 1000 lumen emitters, not in production at that time. The trade was they get a light for exhibit to the public. The lights were completed in October, 2007 but we couldn't tell anyone the rumored emitters were in lights as 1000 lumen emitter production wouldn't start until 3 months later. Who would have believed? People thought we still had the older 400 lumen emitters. With our hands tied, all we could say was _"brighter then standard."_ Yeah, very general and elusive posts. No one would believe "bright" unless they tried the light. _Maddening!_ The Japanese version also has the same emitter. So when the 1000 lumen emitter went into production in January, 2008, Osram had a light to show what the emitter could do.

In the picture above, the Surefire/KL4 head with the emitter, well, we can't tell you that they sports the next gen 1120 lumens emitters. OK?

We kinda became a showcase for Osram emitters.

And they are still bright.


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## msxtr (Dec 10, 2006)

dweeby said:


> lumitronix sell the emitter and I found some torches on pro-light.jp
> when I first looked it was in english, now it only comes up in japenese.


Hi, in this shop of Germany sell too this led, but are really expensives 59€ (93$) each one  

Greetings - Saludos

msxtr


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Oh! That is too high. Keep looking.

Ostars work on German cars so they should be exceptional for our use. Osram is a determined company. Get one before cars have them.

_"Two OSTAR LEDs are used in each headlight for the dipped beam, and three additional OSTAR emitters provide the high beam.

A further OSTAR is used for the fog light, and parking and daytime running lights are built with Golden Dragon LEDs."_

https://compoundsemiconductor.net/cws/article/news/29983

I did find another option for a handheld Ostar light-
https://www.mb-sub.com/photon/?L=2


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## GhostReactor (Jun 9, 2008)

The O-Star really produce the best beam profile for biking that I ve ever seen and tried.
Too bad my custom light occupies some space and doesn't have a batt pack for me to ride longer in the dark woods 

If only there is a dedicated DUO Ostar bike light ( 2000 lumens!), massive heat sink, occupy minimum space on the cockpit with external battery pack that can run looong time on max. 
Wouldnt that be a dream?...... 

Wake up and go riding!


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Ghost! Good to see you..._again_!

You know, a twin set Mega Micro could more then do the job with an adapter for a power pack.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Ghost, I know exactly what you mean. I'm running out of room. Secondary light is barely seen, the orange spot.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

I will have a couple prototype within 2 wks. I'm glad to see someone else likes the OSTAR :thumbsup: 

rabbit


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

I like it! It’s got the cool brush written all over it. And I’m happy to hear of another Ostar user. I actually know about a dozen users. Like GhostReactor, they won’t change back. To them, it is a coveted emitter. Can’t wait you see your creative juices up and running.


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## Turveyd (Sep 30, 2007)

Dark Mower, where did you get that torch from and how much did it cost ??


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## Boyonabyke (Sep 5, 2007)

Happy Rabbit said:


> I will have a couple prototype within 2 wks. I'm glad to see someone else likes the OSTAR :thumbsup:
> 
> rabbit


Damn!, That looks like the real FoShizzle. Find a way to mount that on some handle bars, get it backed off on the milleamps with a multiple 4 position driver Off, low, medium and high so you can get some good run time out of it, say 40 minutes on high and 4 hours on medium, 12 hours on low, and you'd have something I'd pay dearly for.

Some other things, get rid of all the fancy cuts in the body on the lathe, driving machining costs up, as well as the expensive anodize finish... just leave it brushed aluminum. Consumers are cost conscious when the US dollar is weak and the economy is in a depression. Save that stuff for the Mil spec government contract crowds.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Turveyd said:


> Dark Mower, where did you get that torch from and how much did it cost ??


We made them.

Ever since they were made I've bought very little. One and a half years ago, the Ostar was new. People got on the Cree/P4 bandwagon hoping for 200 lumens but some of us took a different path with Ostar at the then rated output of 410 lumens. Luckily, while the light was being designed Osram more the doubled the output of the emitter to 800, then 1000 (and recently bumped it up again.) We were the only game in town. Nobody saw us and the SFV (SF-five) coming.

We caught them off guard and the knee-jerk reaction buried them. After secretly passing the lights to their owners we introduced them to a popular light forum- the SFVs suddenly popped up everywhere. The lights were too good- even with pictures of the output, they couldn't understand how bright the lights are. The lights were quickly trashed and the gurus buried them in criticism yet all the lights survive today even though those "new" Cree & P4 are retired. Too bad- we were ready to share. We tested; even a screaming P7 is a level below. These "antique" SFVs are still running reliably and still ahead of the pack.

Only 30 SFV were made. In fact, we just found another rarer prototype, a 3 cell version today so make that 31. As an overused term- "they blew away the competition", and they still do.

Not bad for a first shot, eh? We've made lights before but not of this magnitude. They are battleships. Head to tail, inside & out plus converters were new. Bodies & hard anodizing are done in the US, converters and assembly in Japan where their specialty is miniature stuff. It's really high-tech but simple to use. Did you see the picture above, the stacked converter with the giant toothpick tip next to the multifunction circuit? The emitter was so new we even had to figure out reflectors. That was the hardest part.










The SFVs have more tricks then the obvious. It was our first attempt to make a one-piece head and body for greater heat-sinking. One battery sits within the head so you can imagine how thin the multifunction converter is.

Final cost was $600 each for the SFVs. Research, development, and revisions drain money on all-new lights. But you see the rewards- they are great and desired. Mass production would have made them half price, even less with overseas production with the expected knock in quality.









Duracell 2AA alkaline batteries, 3-volts

They said we need a large stack of batteries to get the Ostar to light.  Not true. The SFV will run on 2 AA alkaline batteries (no doubt 2AAA too) for a true limp home mode. To be fair, I only tried the 2AA on lowest power, giving 82 inflated lumens or 62 honest lumens, still more then a 2 cell Maglite with 50 lumens of constantly dimming light.

Normally, the SFV runs on 2x17670 or 4xRCR123, rechargeables, or 4xCR123A primaries. It is constant brightness for over 2 hours on high, about 4, 5 and 6 hours on medium-high, medium, and low. With its normal cells, the low mode is 133 marketing lumens or 100 honest lumens. I wish mine had a lower-low but it is hard to control the eager emitters.

We are increasing the Ostar arsenal. In weeks the pocket versions, called the 15-3, will be finished- again a US/Japanese venture. The cores are highly modified shells of a Surefire KL4 heads- everything else is new. Of course the main events are the Ostars! We'll have stars in our eyes again.

We did it and I'm proud of them. Now I'm serious competition to car lights with a light the size of a stick. Did I mention the light doesn't flicker? There is a built-in ledge to lock batteries in place so you don't get any annoying battery rattle- its solid. It works perfectly on a gun mount and surely works on a bike.

We'll do it again with the 15-3. Homebrewed is good.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

"Save that stuff for the Mil spec government contract crowds."


Too Funny 


I don;t plan on making any money on this project. I just wanted to make the " Chris King" of MTB lights. Thanks for the concern.

Rabbit


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I'd like to thank the people who commented with the low-down on the Ostar LED. I think it's too bad that it doesn't draw more commercial interest. I like the idea that it uses less current than the newer P-7. As was already said, I can't see why one of these can't be used with some kind of voltage boost converter. The next and biggest problem would be the optics or reflector. Still, I can't understand why that would be such a problem. Low cost optics are made for other LED's, why not the Ostar ? I suppose if there was more demand for the Ostar the prices would likely go down.  Still,I doubt that anyone will market a bike specific Ostar-powered bike light unless the parts and LED's come down in price and are more available. Even if someone did, I think at todays prices it would have to sell over $1300 in order to make a profit. I don't see that happening anytime soon, especially when you consider the more available/affordable and constantly improving offerings from SSC and Cree. So far I've only seen two commercially made Ostar powered torches. One was $450 the other was over $900 ( and looked to weigh a ton ) If someone markets a torch somewhere in the $250 @ 1000 lumens ,that weighs less than 1 lb...is compact and offers an optic or reflector that can throw a tight beam over 300 ft....with a 2+ hrs run time on high, I might be interested. So far there are lots of bright LED light sets but few that seem to meet my requirement for throwing distance. When better optics or reflectors are made, then and only then will I be a happy camper.


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## znomit (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> The next and biggest problem would be the optics or reflector....


LedilStar Ostar Optic at cutter.

I thought about this for my dynamo light but wasn't sure where to get the leds from, then the quad R2s came out and its MR11 sized anyway so couldn't see the benefit.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

http://www.fraensrl.com/images/Fraen_FRC_Datasheet.pdf.

I don;t care for the LEDIL reflector.

This is the best reflector I found for the OSTAR ~ $4 @ ARROW NAC

Rabbit


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## GhostReactor (Jun 9, 2008)

Hey glad to see you too 

So you re telling me the maker could actually smack Osram Ostar in those micro, custom the tailcap to make it run on power pack??

I ll like 2 of those please!!



Dark Mower said:


> Ghost! Good to see you..._again_!
> 
> You know, a twin set Mega Micro could more then do the job with an adapter for a power pack.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

GhostReactor said:


> Hey glad to see you too
> 
> So you re telling me the maker could actually smack Osram Ostar in those micro, custom the tailcap to make it run on power pack??
> 
> I ll like 2 of those please!!


The voltage is there, the parts exist. I don't see why not. Guts of the SFV in a Mega Micro? It'd be a first- a 1000 lumen bike and pocket light. As a pocket light, runtime would be lousy, maybe 30 minutes, and I doubt it could hit 250 lumens but it would work much better in lower modes.

As a bike light, a battery adapter with integrated heat sink could be added or it might work with a mass-filled adapter, possibly with both. Another possibility would be to use the new 1250 lumen Ostar and drop the brightness to 1000- it should run cooler. Nice to have the option of backing off brightness. And it would be fun to make a prototype.

Would you want a Mega Micro bike light? Think about that one. The price could be high as it would be limited production. Personally, I'd be itching to make one. Seems not a lot really understand how bright the emitters truly are. You do- you have one of the SFVs. I may have to do a comparison with America's favorite 2-cell Maglite. No promises about Mega Micro-B and we'd have to refine the thought.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

1250 Lumen Ostar ? Really..... Where ? :eekster:

Rabbit


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Shhh! I don't know if it is public yet. Only we know. 

I should add that it takes more juice to run it so, IMO, we are really getting the same thing with an uprating in power.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Very soon, I'll be able to compare the Ostar and P7 next to each other. Simply, I want a bright and reliable light I can hot dog with. So it boils down to the Ostar versus the P7, the grudge match.

For me, the Ostar is very well known since we built a series of multifunction lights around it. Detractors became extraordinarily quiet when they fired up. It remains rare because no manufacturer knows how to do it so it. It's simply bright- 100 Watt light bulb bright.

I'm in the same boat as others; does the P7 live up to its claims of 400 - 900 lumens? I'm going to find out&#8230;soon. In a couple of weeks I'll have pictures of the both beams. We will be finishing off two lights- both containing a P7 with a converter running 1.5A so a P7 light should generate over 400 lumens. Hopefully, one of these three lights could make a good source for a bike/pocket light.

But for now, I can only show the Ostar compared to lights recommended by a popular light forum. They gave us a direction to use the Ostar emitter because of their never-ending confusion, hype, and light flipping. We wanted serious lights.

For now, if you want to use the P7, check your batteries. What is kept low-key is the huge hit on the batteries. It draws a lot of current, so much that if the voltage drops slightly then the light could wink out. As we all know, as batteries age, they lose storage capacity. I hope I'm wrong but the way I see it, there is going to be a lot of hot lights with low runtimes in the near future. I still think that physics favor the Ostar for output and running reliability. But Beta didn't win the tape war either.

Enough of that. To see the spot beam, the light was aim at the center of the oak tree and you can see the spill beam across the parking lot. Aiming high shows what the spill beam looks like.

Mag-lite, 2D cells, 3 volts, incandescent bulb, approximately 50 lumens- the champagne of consumer lights that is available everywhere. It has adjustable focus and an ugly looking yellow beam. It is an excellent example of all throw and very little spill light.










Surefire U2, 2xCR123A, 6 volts, Luxeon emitter, approximately 98 real lumens. Serious designs goes into this light. Very well built, military standards, with 6 electronically controlled brightness levels accessed by a rotating ring around the collar.










Surefire 6P drop-in with aftermarket module, 2xRCR123, 7.2 volts, Cree Q5 emitter, claimed 290 lumens. It is an old but reliable light and quite reasonably price. Its modular design allows many upgrades to more light output and even a Turbo Head. My estimates with the no name drop-in from FleaBay are 124 real lumens. Reliability is also unknown.










Dorcy K2, 6xAAA cells, 9 volts, LumiLED K2 emitter, unknown advertised lumens. A budget light from Target that pretty much shows what a consumer would appreciate. It has high and annoying blink mode that always gets in the way when shutting off the light. Also, the stack of cells bothers me. If one more goes bad, how many people are going to pay the high price of a lot of small capacity cells? Approximately 90 lumens.










Tiablo A9-6V, 1x18650 rechargeable, Cree Q5 emitter, unknown lumens. It's tough! Low and high beam. A friend in Japan had these personally made from the factory. It uses the A8 more efficient converter in an A9 body that has the big reflector. It actually is a great combination. Approximately 33 & 110 lumens.










SFV, 2x17670, 4xRCR123 rechargeables, 4xCR123A primary, 3 to 16 volts, 1000 lumen Osram Ostar emitter. We couldn't find any Ostar lights so we brewed these handheld monsters with, in our opinion, the best that would match a 15W HID light. With the single emitter, I'd say we overshot considerably in build and matched HID brightness. Extremely well built, very rugged. 4 brightness levels (we couldn't stand strobe so it was gagged.) Very smooth beam in the projectile-vomiting class.










I'll let you decide what light works. Maybe&#8230;none of them work!

I'll have pictures of the Ostar versus the P7 beams in a couple of weeks. We'll be finishing off a couple of lights both containing a P7 with a converter. Hopefully, one or both could make a good base for a bike/pocket light.

Some lights are good and some aren't. It is a pot-shot to getting a good one. The more I test, the more I come to the conclusion that the majority of budget lights use really weak converters. They use the cheapest parts possible in the simplest designs. And the assembly quality is questionable or weak. Even at their best, the converter has excessive losses that drop the efficiency. Initially not noticed, the components may degrade over time. Because no one sees converters in a light, unfortunately, there is no incentive to upgrade to build better for only pennies more. There are great lights in the world but they are hard to find among the chaff.

We are hobbyists and so we differ dramatically when it comes to making lights. For instance, no other light uses these custom designed converters. They have premium parts and they are individually tortured. And we really believe in zero tolerance and conservative refinement.

Comparing good and bad lights could be the difference between 'there is something out there' and 'I know what that is.' We get what we pay for in bikes and lights.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

I need to correct my post. The new Ostar is 1120 lumen emitter, not 1250. Still, it is a 12% upgrade meaning 12% brighter, 12% more runtime, or some compromise in between. I’ll tell you how it works.

And they just made a record of output and efficiency in the lab. 500 lumens out of a single LED at 1.4A and efficiency of 136 lumens/W.


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

Each day another comes to life. 15 watt 1000 lumen Ostar LEDs crammed into Surefire KL4 heads with converters that have four levels of light. The 3 x RCR123 barrels are custom made with titanium clips. Might change one of them over to 2 x RCR123 L4 body for a small pocket carry light. All 10 are all spoken for.

Ever see a P4 light in a head this small? You won't. Won't work unless you compromise full power. Physics favor the Ostar for building small and bright.

We know amps dictate the wire and component sizes, not the voltage. P4s are high amp, low voltage, emitters making them relegated to big wires, big components, and low current converters (unless stacked but that is big, inefficient, and needs converter matching), or direct-drive with limited battery choices. Even if someone built a heavy-duty converter the parts size would be too big.

In contrast, Ostar loves low current converters. For 15W, it only needs 800mA (.8A) at 18.4V to squeeze lots of power out of a micro head.

Hard to believe? Lights can be high-tech and fun.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

15W @ 1000 lumens -> When is Osram releasing ?

Rabbit


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

It was released in January, 2008.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

700 lumens @ 15w. I doubt you are getting 1000 lumens. I have seen 1000 lumens for LUPINE lights and the current OSTAR does not match it. 

Rabbit


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## Dark Mower (Sep 2, 2006)

A point source emitter is extremely bright. The reflector shapes (many different ones) are important to redirecting the photons. It isn’t the simple game as “mine is brighter then yours.” Beam patterns take on different shapes for different tasks depending on the use. Many don’t know that. A good reflector is not simple. It sound like your Ostar doesn’t have the correct reflector or it may not be seated right. You might have a problem.

Is LuPine is using real or marketing lumens? The smoother sounding name “emitter lumens” is used once in a while. It is like gross or net horsepower- grossly different. In real life, my last years Ostar (what you call current) was compared to the LuPine and the Ostar out threw it at a little cost of spill beam. It puts out 812 real lumens (18.4V at 810mA = 14.904W) but the reflector does give the appearance of doubling the beam in the spot. I will have the 2009 Ostar with 12% more output in my hand in a week or two where it will be tested.

Check your Ostar light again. It isn’t right.

EDIT- You could check your mA output. Should be near the 800mA range.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

I think your Vf is off. Forward Voltage (aka Vf) for the OSTAR is ~ 19.8V @ 700ma

Rabbit


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

Updates on the project. 

Enjoy 

Rabbit


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

Rev 2 Electronics.

DC/DC Side
Micro Side / Connectors

Enjoy 

Rabbit


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

Cant wait to see it finished, that is such a nice looking housing. Keep up the innovating. I like the pin headers and micro connectors on the board as well, very processional looking, nice touch. Any details on that sweet looking micro board, that is a massive torroid.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

4Layer 3oz Copper Board 35mm dia
Linear 3478 LED Boost 20Vf from 4Cell LiPo(14.8V) > 90% eff
IRF 7470 Mosfet 13ohm 10A 40V Low Rds + Vgs (for PWM)
2100LL Toroid High Q Low Loss 22uh 0.012 Ohm 
200K Freg for low switching losses (also explains the large Toroid + Higher uH)
B540 Schottky 5a 40V 
10uf 40V Caps Low ESR
PIC18 +ICSP + buffered Analog inputs Voltage & LED Temp
PID Loop for LED Temp Control
TVS for Bat + ESD for all I/O + Analog
Multiple LED Modes + Strobe + Low Bat Warning
User Config EEPROM

The Design is overkill but then again most people can only afford one light so it better not fail @ 30mph  

Rabbit


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*not a bike light, but the pics are pretty *

A hand held I made. Uses a shark driver powered by a 14.4v Li-Ion pack. Can't remember if I posted these before...


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## yetibetty (Dec 24, 2007)

VERY nice, I bet your neighbours love you.
One question about type of optic you've used.

They are made in 20mm and I was thinking of giving them a try on a single die LED.
I have noticed a lot of new cars use this tpe of optic. What do you think?


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## cytoe (Jan 20, 2004)

*lens...*

Neighbors probably thought a UFO was visiting them The lens I used is 55mm aspheric. Got it from http://www.surplusshed.com. It's all about the focal point. Generally, the larger the lens, the sharper and smaller you can get the focused dies. The larger lens also gathers more of the light. I also tried several other lenses (30mm and 44mm I think), but decided on the larger lens to get the most throw. I think a 20mm lens would waste a lot of the light. I still have one ostar laying around, so I may play around it more combinations. I also have a lens (ledil I think...not aspheric) specifcally made for the ostar...but I thought it wasted a lot of light also.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

http://www.fraensrl.com/images/Fraen_FRC_Datasheet.pdf

http://www.ledil.fi/datasheets/DataSheet_LEDILSTAR-L.pdf

Both are Mr11 Format w/ Narrow & Medium Beams

Fraensrl from WWW.ARROWNAC.COM ~$4

LEDIL fron WWW.DIGIKEY.COM ~$4

I like cytoe setup. Very Cool... :thumbsup:

Rabbit


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## GhostReactor (Jun 9, 2008)

Happy Rabbit, are you making a run of those lights? 
The heat sinking on that looks extra cool!!


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

Can you say " Extra Expensive " ? 45min/each on 5-axis machine....

I should have the actual prototype today. I will post pics.  

I'm happy with the project but the OSTAR is not efficient. The OSTAR ~1a is no more efficient than HID LAMP @ 50lum/w. I wish OSRAM would 
release an updated OSTAR to compete with the P7.

Rabbit


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

cytoe that is an insane beam :yikes: like the police choppers 
put that on the bike for a bit of throw


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

*Thats cheating*

Happy Rabbit 
5 axis cnc that is well cheating ,  
but I like it :thumbsup:


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

If that housing turns out to work as well as it looks then maybe some one can have em cast. That should bring the cost way way down compared to a 5axis. Just a thought since I like the tapered fins so much, they appear strong and there lots of em and they are aligned in the more effective direction. Also those Reflectors look to be very well made and are probably more efficient than lens. The reflector might gain back as much as 10% of the efficiency lost by going with the ostar and efficient electronics when compared to P7 solutions do the same. Perhaps the over all efficiency numbers are not that bad? Of course in a few months time you may be able to slap a $20 cree mc-e in there. Is that driver a linear eval board or a one off pcb you had made and assembled your self, impressive either way.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

Board Specifications :

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?p=4779147#poststop

Or

Go back to page 2 @ bottom

The C Code was ~4.3K. 4.3K is a lot of code just to turn on an LED.

Double Click - ON
Short Click - Toggle LED MODE
Long Click - OFF
Ultra Long Click - OFF + STROBE

Low Battery Warning (toggles 33% mode + 12sec blink)
Overvoltage Disable
Closed Loop LED Temp Control
EEPROM USER Configuration :
*Supports Different Lights Modes (100/50,100/33,100/66/33,100/50/10,etc...)
*Transition Speeds (fast,med,slow), 
*3&4 Li Cell Setups 
*LED Max Temp (60c,50c,40c)

I'm not a great programer. :madman: Last time I programmed C code was 10 years ago.

Rabbit


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

Latest Pics Almost Finished


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Brilliant! I can't wait to see some beamshots!


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

WOW 

That is the nicest light I have seen yet. Both the paper specs and the looks. Every component seems to have been chosen for a good reason. With 6 dies those huge fins running the proper direction are really doing a lot, keeping the temp low keeps the ostars forward voltage down and thus keeps it from drawing more power. A lot of lights out there play some devious numbers games, constant current regulator stated as having 97% efficiency, but actually falling to more like 80 on the efficiency vs voltage curve. Optical looses from the optics I and many others here use are not in the 90% range. It would be cool to run the actual power consumption in real word conditions vs real out the front lumen's of this light and compare. It looks like any losses from the Ostar may have been recovered in electronics, thermal management, and optics.


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## troutie-mtb (Sep 20, 2007)

You must be a very Happy Rabbit with how that is turning out 
It is looking very good for a diy light made with a hammer and chisel :smilewinkgrin::smilewinkgrin:

Yes I know I am jealous


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## ocean breathes salty (Oct 1, 2006)

That's not a light.... It's a work of art!


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

bikerray + others,

Thanks for the nice comments. Its only taken 9 months + 5K to get to this point.
bikeray , you have a great understanding of the design requirements and actual applications by the current vendors. :winker: 
troutie-mtb, its called a 5 Axis hammer and chisel.

75F Room Temp

Still Air, ~50C , Max 7 Watts (PID Controlled)
50cfm Fan 1.5' away , < 50C , 15 Watts (800lumens)

50C is the cut off temp for the LED, I could go to 60C but the housing gets too hot.
Anyting temps past > 60C and the Vf, led life, Eff, .... etc goes down the tiolet..... 
:ciappa: The Ostar is limited to ~60C.

The Housing Design has 30^2inches of surface area. I'm not sure how these other companies rate their designs but they must put them in a fridge to get the specifications they need. 15 watts is a little more difficult to remove in still air (@ room temp) than I thought.

And the Beam pattern is very similar to the ARC HID just Brighter. I believe the ARC is rated @ 600lum.

Rabbit


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

I think your finning pattern is beautiful, but the fins are oriented the wrong way for good still air convection. For MTB use it'll be fine, once you've got airflow 15 watts is easy to dissipate! (You've got the same surface area/watt ratio I usually shoot for, 2 square inches per watt. :thumbsup: )


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## bikerjay (Sep 16, 2007)

StevelKnivel, 

I never thought of thermal requirements like that, that is in terms of watts/sq inches, that makes a lot of sense to me. I am totally going to use that on the next light I build for my helmet. Looks like if I want my 2led light sized at .5" x 1" x.75" I will have to attach fins and cut grooves all over it as I plan on having it run at 5 watts total. I guess I never really understood thermal design all that well and always just think along the lines of the more surface area/less resistance the better.The light I built was just trial and error with the B-flex's thermal sensing set to 50deg C. It got to 50c really quick even when moving, but then I added some fins and now as long as i am moving at all it stays at full power. I think my next light will have to have a thermistor connected to the analog dimming loop of the constant current regulator.


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## StevelKnivel (Jun 23, 2007)

Have you had a chance to take any outdoor beamshot pics?


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

some day i will finish this light.


the pattern is very similar to the Arc from L&M just brighter.


Rabbit


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## hootsmon (Feb 7, 2008)

Just awesome!!!!:thumbsup:


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

Just talked to a Board House and looks like Jan for the electronics. My machine shop just received their new German 5-axis CNC machine. the big question is Li-ion or Li-Po for cold weather operation. I going to use BatterySpace packs.

Rabbit


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## caffeine_au (Oct 20, 2008)

Man I'm jealous! I started work on a housing that wasn't as pretty as yours, using a 3 axis mill, but then the machine shop here at work was shut down and all the equipment sold off  I'm left with a 1/2 finished light!

I have 4 ostars, with the fraen optics (+/-9 and +/-18 degree) and nothing to put them in!


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

i will send you a body when finished ! i feel your pain. I should have production units by Jan1 !


Rabbit


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## jrdwthomas (Jan 11, 2009)

Any update on this project guys? I'm looking at building a light and am unsure whether to use the MC-E or one of these Osrams... I'm keen to see the beam shots to compare. 

Justin


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## Giant-Lander (Feb 13, 2009)

Yes, any update yet??? What happened to the Rabbit????


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Hey Rabbit come out of your hole. 

thats a pretty cool design. well done.

I've been designing a light similar to your but for using a triple star PCB.

I'll post a design sketch later.


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## Happy Rabbit (Mar 22, 2007)

I am still here. Still working on it. Hopefully this summer.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

just in time for the hot summer nights riding the bike!

If I had acces to a CNC machine I would machine something like a triple eye but with thiner fins like you did, and then put 3 OSTARS inside


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