# SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light/ $57



## saypat (Sep 4, 2012)

SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light_Bike Light_Electronics Wholesale online

I've bought flashlights from this company before, he has been very good to us. I don't know anything about this light but came across it this evening and wanted to share it. I just bought a Cree XM-L T6 from E-Bay for $36. If I hadn't bought that, I would have bought this. Maybe another here can shed some light on this....

p


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

saypat said:


> SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light_Bike Light_Electronics Wholesale online
> 
> I've bought flashlights from this company before, he has been very good to us. I don't know anything about this light but came across it this evening and wanted to share it. I just bought a Cree XM-L T6 from E-Bay for $36. If I hadn't bought that, I would have bought this. Maybe another here can shed some light on this....
> 
> p


While I've bought from cnqualitygoods myself in the past and have nothing bad to say about them, with only 12 posts to your name and a join date in Sept. of this year, your mentioning ( and linking ) of this product reeks of spam....maybe borderline spam but spam all the same. Don't be surprised if the moderators remove your post.

saypat, I'm not saying you are a spammer but you need to know that there are people who join MTBreview with the expressed intent to barter their wares. Usually when they do this they only have a handful of posts and have joined VERY RECENTLY ( as you have )....just saying.


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## saypat (Sep 4, 2012)

It's a tough world to get along in, freedom is disappearing. I am a photographer and was once taking pictures of innocent school children at play on the playground. When I looked up, a man asked me what I was doing??? I invited him to invite the police out,, and he did. The police patted me down! In my mind I was not the offender but I thought the offender was the one harassing me! The officer looked thru my pictures with my permission (I always cooperate) and saw how harmless they were. Free to go. And the offending parent thanked me for my cooperation. Some other photographer might not have been so cooperative. I had respect for the offender, protecting the children.
I think with any discernment, one could tell that there is no spam intent in my post above, seriously. But, police if you must, and moderate if you will, I understand, and thank you. But, I will continue to represent the good in this world, disappearing as it is.
Cat-man, I appreciate your posts and continue to learn from them.

just sayin'
patrick


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

saypat said:


> It's a tough world to get along in, freedom is disappearing. I am a photographer and was once taking pictures of innocent school children at play on the playground. When I looked up, a man asked me what I was doing??? I invited him to invite the police out,, and he did. The police patted me down! In my mind I was not the offender but I thought the offender was the one harassing me! The officer looked thru my pictures with my permission (I always cooperate) and saw how harmless they were. Free to go. And the offending parent thanked me for my cooperation. Some other photographer might not have been so cooperative. I had respect for the offender, protecting the children.
> I think with any discernment, one could tell that there is no spam intent in my post above, seriously. But, police if you must, and moderate if you will, I understand, and thank you. But, I will continue to represent the good in this world, disappearing as it is.
> Cat-man, I appreciate your posts and continue to learn from them.
> 
> ...


My apology. Sometimes things look a certain way but aren't. I think this is one of those moments.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Saypat is a member in good standing over at Budget Light Forums, Cat-man-do, I can vouch for him.

This light is drawing some interest over there, but we have questions on mount and batteries. Looking for info if anyone at MTBR is familiar with it.


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## mb323323 (Aug 1, 2006)

*MJ 872now just 39.99 + 3 delivery!!!!!*

And the prices just continue to dump.

Magicshine MJ 872 now $39.99 + $3 delivery, total $42.99

Makes if very tough for others to compete.

[USA] MagicShine MJ-872 1600LM 4*Cree XP-G LED Bike Light (LIGHT HEAD ONLY) | eBay


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

betweenrides said:


> Saypat is a member in good standing over at Budget Light Forums, Cat-man-do, I can vouch for him.
> 
> This light is drawing some interest over there, but we have questions on mount and batteries. Looking for info if anyone at MTBR is familiar with it.


They are drawing interest here as well. Looks like the beam pattern is an intense spot because the reflectors are smooth. It might have been better if the reflectors were OP. At least they got the mode selection right by including a mid-mode. I can't speak to the battery or run time issue. The mount looks like standard O-ring set-up. I enhanced the photo below to show it better.


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## Tim-H (Mar 20, 2010)

mb323323 said:


> And the prices just continue to dump.
> 
> Magicshine MJ 872 now $39.99 + $3 delivery, total $42.99
> 
> ...


No battery though. Just so nobody is expecting one.


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## kwarwick (Jun 12, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> They are drawing interest here as well. Looks like the beam pattern is an intense spot because the reflectors are smooth. It might have been better if the reflectors were OP. At least they got the mode selection right by including a mid-mode. I can't speak to the battery or run time issue. The mount looks like standard O-ring set-up. I enhanced the photo below to show it better.


An interesting light for sure, but I wonder if it is anything even remotely approaching 2500 lumen as we all know how accurate the claims of Chinese light manufactures tend to be. 

If it does actually put out 2500 lumen the next concern becomes the ability of that housing to dissipate the heat that would be generated... doesn't look like there is anywhere need the needed surface area and I bet the driver doesn't have any thermal protection so I'm thinking this might make a good winter light only.


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

kwarwick said:


> An interesting light for sure, but I wonder if it is anything even remotely approaching 2500 lumen as we all know how accurate the claims of Chinese light manufactures tend to be.
> 
> If it does actually put out 2500 lumen the next concern becomes the ability of that housing to dissipate the heat that would be generated... doesn't look like there is anywhere need the needed surface area and I bet the driver doesn't have any thermal protection so I'm thinking this might make a good winter light only.


Thought I'd add my 2 cents, hello everyone, I'm a new member to the forum and fairly new to cycling, having moved a few months ago to the central Highlands of Vietnam it seemed like a great opportunity to get into cycling. I've frequented the forum on occasion and it's a great resource of information for cycling in general, in particular for newbs like myself.

Regarding this bike light, it has a very similar head design to the Skyray King which is a very popular and heavily reviewed flashlight on the budgetlight forum. It handles heat well and produces around 2400L, so it's not unreasonable to assume this particular bike light handles heat well and performs similarly to the King. Fancyfashlight/CNquality goods also has a reasonably good standing with budgetlight forum, and I've been dealing with customer service to pry out more information. I've had confirmation that they are both similar in performance, although I've asked and am still waiting for more concrete information, such as how many amps each led is driven at.

It's similarities to the King is why it's probably getting a lot of interest. Question is how good are the cells in the battery pack and can they hold high currents for long. It looks like a standard magicshine clone type battery pack that requires some DIY waterproofing, so I wouldn't be too hopeful. Still, for the price it looks promising, and it looks like it will work with your typical magicshine battery packs.

For chinese Lumens Lightmalls is also selling it at 3600 Lumens


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi, JR - welcome to MTBR - good to see you over here too.

@ Cat-man-do. Thanks for that pic, I agree it looks like a standard MS type mount. Good news for me is I have a hard mount from my BD Strykr that should work on this light. 

Anyone have some links on sources for better bar mounts that will work on this light?


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

betweenrides said:


> Hi, JR - welcome to MTBR - good to see you over here too.
> 
> @ Cat-man-do. Thanks for that pic, I agree it looks like a standard MS type mount. Good news for me is I have a hard mount from my BD Strykr that should work on this light.
> 
> Anyone have some links on sources for better bar mounts that will work on this light?


You're welcome. There is a new mount being sold by the makers of the Fluxient triple XM-L ( U2). Looks like a real nice mount and has a slide in clip for the lamp to make it quick release. It will also swivel a bit I understand. Nice touch. I saw it being sold on e-bay ( UK ) for about $15. Sorry, I didn't save the link. The mount now comes standard with the Fluxient triple XML set-up. If I see it again I'll post the link.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

I have one of these on the way. I'm planning on bar mounting this light, and getting a Magicshine 808 for my helmet, so I'll have both lights to compare. I won't have a trail report though since my mountain bike got stolen.


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

betweenrides said:


> Hi, JR - welcome to MTBR - good to see you over here too.
> 
> @ Cat-man-do. Thanks for that pic, I agree it looks like a standard MS type mount. Good news for me is I have a hard mount from my BD Strykr that should work on this light.
> 
> Anyone have some links on sources for better bar mounts that will work on this light?


Thanks betweenrides! I was going to mention action led lights for mounting options,but noticed you beat me to it on BLF..


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## moggy82 (Jan 30, 2009)

I also have one on the way, I have a Skyray King so can compare it to that aswell as a MJ-808 / MJ-808E and a 872. 

Mount wise i still use the Electron mount as Troutie has used on his lights until the very recent ones. I think i have just the one left now. 

Their may be a link on my sig or user gallery. 

Moggy


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## whokilledJR (Sep 24, 2012)

moggy82 said:


> I also have one on the way, I have a Skyray King so can compare it to that aswell as a MJ-808 / MJ-808E and a 872.
> 
> Mount wise i still use the Electron mount as Troutie has used on his lights until the very recent ones. I think i have just the one left now.
> 
> ...


Hi Moggy, it won't be as bright as the Skyray king, it has a different driver and each emitter is driven at 1.8A, I had confirmation from fancyflashlights. You'll probably get close to 1600 lumens, which is still insanely bright for a bike light.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Mine might be here by the end of the week. It's been in Los Angeles for a couple of days, and that's close to where I am.

I decided against the MJ-808 and got a Dongrui DR-B18. It's a 26650 light. The head appears to be the same dimensions, so it'll probably have similar throw.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Hey guys, I hope the Skyray XM-L triple doesn't work like the other clone triple that I ordered.. see this post
You might have to hold your breath till someone actual has one to know how it will work.


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## Wombat (Jan 25, 2004)

Cat-man-do said:


> Hey guys, I hope the Skyray XM-L triple doesn't work like the other clone triple that I ordered.. see this post
> You might have to hold your breath till someone actual has one to know how it will work.


It does:

"Mode:4 mode(Lo(single LED working)>>Mid(double LED working)>>Hi(three LED working)>>Strobe)"

(from the website in the OP's post.)

Tim


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

Wombat said:


> It does:
> 
> "Mode:4 mode(Lo(single LED working)>>Mid(double LED working)>>Hi(three LED working)>>Strobe)"
> 
> ...


Ah...at least CNQualitygoods does make mention of it. Still, I wonder how many people saw it or knows what it means. The one that I bought....no mention at all. I hate it when that happens...:bluefrown:


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

Me personally, I don't have an issue with the modes being set by # of led's (low=1 led, medium=2 leds, etc).
I pretty much always run my lights on high. The only time I would change it would be for a trail side repairs where I would turn down to low or medium to conserve battery (and because high would be too bright for working on a flat tire just two feet infront of me).

But I can see Cats point, if you change your modes from time to time, a different beam pattern would be kind of annoying. Perhaps those with personal experience with this can tell us, is it REALLY noticeable?


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

leaftye said:


> I decided against the MJ-808 and got a Dongrui DR-B18. It's a 26650 light.


leaftye when you get that Dongrui DR-B18 throw up a little review and let us know the run times with the 26650. Neat set up with the clip and all.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

fightnut said:


> leaftye when you get that Dongrui DR-B18 throw up a little review and let us know the run times with the 26650. Neat set up with the clip and all.


No promises on run time, but I'll see if I can find the amps pulled to predict battery life. If I can keep better logs of my rides, I'll have some real world run times too. I expected to run this battery all the way down, so I bought some Trustfire 4000 mah protected cells. Another vendor may be bringing Keepower branded protected 26650s with Sanyo or Panasonic cells, which I'm very interested in.

What I really want is a headlamp version of the Ultrafire HD2010. That light has a big reflector that makes it a very throwy light, which I think makes it perfect for mounting on a helmet. The flashlight uses a 26650, which I'd like to see in the headlamp version as well. Buying the Dongrui was my way of showing that there's interest in 26650 headlamps.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Wombat said:


> It does:
> 
> "Mode:4 mode(Lo(single LED working)>>Mid(double LED working)>>Hi(three LED working)>>Strobe)"
> 
> ...


Dang, I hadn't noticed that. In this case the middle mode is worthless as there's not a big enough step between the modes. I'd like to see something like a 3X jump between modes, not 1/3rd.

Now I really want to take it apart and see what kind of modding potential it has.



fightnut said:


> But I can see Cats point, if you change your modes from time to time, a different beam pattern would be kind of annoying. Perhaps those with personal experience with this can tell us, is it REALLY noticeable?


I believe light is like sound where it requires a 4X increase before a 2X increase is perceived by our senses. So I think the spacing between modes is way too small.

Since this light has a bigger head that the ebay Cree 3X light, it might be more of a thrower. The reflector cups are much more separate in terms of shared circumference and depth, so the beam pattern may not be affected much.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Got a bit of bad news. The battery plug is different than what Magicshine uses. I saw that both chargers output 8.4V, but the Magicshine charged at 1.8A instead of 1A for the SkyRay, so I wanted to use the Magicshine charger. If it was compatible, it would also mean I could immediately try out the charger with my Magicshine battery. This could mean trouble in the long term when I need to replace the battery.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

leaftye said:


> Got a bit of bad news. The battery plug is different than what Magicshine uses. I saw that both chargers output 8.4V, but the Magicshine charged at 1.8A instead of 1A for the SkyRay, so I wanted to use the Magicshine charger. If it was compatible, it would also mean I could immediately try out the charger with my Magicshine battery. This could mean trouble in the long term when I need to replace the battery.


Easy fix. Buy a MS type extension cord. Cut the plug off the light head and replace it with the MS type plug. Now you can run MS/B-ray/Gemini/Gloworm batteries. Then take the original lamp head plug and the other MS plug, splice them together and make a mini adapter for the original battery. Your done. Takes some minor DIY but it can work.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> Easy fix. Buy a MS type extension cord. Cut the plug off the light head and replace it with the MS type plug. Now you can run MS/B-ray/Gemini/Gloworm batteries. Then take the original lamp head plug and the other MS plug, splice them together and make a mini adapter for the original battery. Your done. Takes some minor DIY but it can work.


I sent a message to the vendor about this. If the vendor doesn't start selling an adapter, I'll solder new plugs onto the head and battery. It's easy, and doesn't cost that much, but I'd rather not you know? I see this as something that will limit sales because some potential customers can't or won't modify their lights, which would make this a pretty dumb design feature. I could almost see this as a sales tactic to force customers to buy their replacement batteries, but they don't sell replacement batteries.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Here's a shot that may be hard to make use of. On the left is the Sky Ray S6, in the middle is an Ultrafire HD2010, and on the right is a Dongrui DR-B18. All are their highest modes. The lights look much brighter to the eye, but I cut down the shutter time so the image wouldn't be completely washed out.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have that light, works smoothly. But I wonder, if I can swap the clear glass lens for some wide angle like gemini olympia. The cons seems to be the battery pack giving 7.4V/4400mAh. I will measure the runtime and current draw and post it here. But anyway it is a huge amount of light coming out :madmax:



saypat said:


> SKY RAY S6 3xCREE XM-L T6 LED 2500Lumens 4-mode Bike light_Bike Light_Electronics Wholesale online
> 
> I've bought flashlights from this company before, he has been very good to us. I don't know anything about this light but came across it this evening and wanted to share it. I just bought a Cree XM-L T6 from E-Bay for $36. If I hadn't bought that, I would have bought this. Maybe another here can shed some light on this....
> 
> p


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

My S6 has just arrived. Holy crap this is a big light! This will not be going anywhere near my helmet for fear of crushing it or breaking my neck 

Will have some ride reports within a few days 8)


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Got mine a few weeks ago, but weather has been crap on ride nights so I've only had one run with it. The High might just as well not even be there. The change in brightness is barely noticeable from Medium. Should probably run it on Medium and conserve battery, which is pretty bad from what I can tell. From full charge before the ride, I got 1:20 run time on high before it stepped itself down to low, then quit altogether 10 minutes later. I recharged the batteries (5-6 hours), let it sit for a week, turned it on and got a minute of run time before it shut off. Plugged the battery pack back on the charger for another hour and everything is fine. I'm going to do some controlled run time tests with a fan and see how it comes out.

The nylon battery pack holder is obviously a design afterthought. Only one velcro strap and it flops around when you're riding. I replaced it with a better one.

Beam pattern is good. Very floody but throws out there too. 1, 2 or 3 LEDs on does not really change the beam pattern, it just gets brighter. The O-Ring mount absolutely sucks for bumpy trails, passable for road or soft trails. The mount part on the light itself is just hard plastic with no soft rubber for friction, so you'll need to add a shim or replace it with a better one. Even using the smallest O-Ring, it moves around too much. This should have been constructed with a side (top) switch, as depressing the switch from the rear causes the light to move forward with the lights sheer mass and weight. I Tried rigging up my zip tie perma mount from the Strykr, but the wire placement sucks too - comes out of the bottom of the light right where the mount needs to go. Ended up adding some spacers to make it work, but it's not the best.

Overall, a very poorly designed light and I'm disappointed. I should know better by now - you get what you pay for. I'm hoping the battery performance improves, but I'm not holding out hope. Bottom line, I would not recommend anyone else buy this light. Cost me $65 shipped, but with additional parts bought to fix the flaws, it's getting closer to $80. For that amount of money, you can find plenty of cheap alternatives that work ok. There have been many positive reviews and happy customers that bought the Sky Ray King. I figured this would have similar quality, but that proved to be wrong.

My best combination for my type of night riding is a Shadow BL-21 for flood, complemented with a SMO torch for throw.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

I pretty much agree with above ^^. The lighthead is just too massive and heavy to be practical. I'll be trying it tonight (on bars only) but am not expecting much stability. I'll probably have to change to a different type of mount vs. the O-Ring setup, I just can't see it being stable on my trails. We'll find out tonight.

I also have the 'other' 3x XML lighthead that is available. The much smaller one from this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-clone-3-x-xml-t-6-49-88-shipped-814616.html and I compared just the beam shots in my backyard the other night. VERY, VERY negligible difference that I could see. I do like the brightness, and beam pattern, but the skyray was only just a hair brighter (though with various lack of quality controls, I could see the difference being more significant in others' experiences). Being a bulkier and heavier light I'd say the other 3x lighthead wins. The skyray is just tremendous, and that is a disadvantage to it.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Andy, if you do find a more suitable mount, please post it up. Definitely post your experience from tonight's ride - have a good one!


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I have this one - quite sturdy and well made. No rubber-like mount, just screws. You can find one that fits oversize too :thumbsup:



betweenrides said:


> Andy, if you do find a more suitable mount, please post it up. Definitely post your experience from tonight's ride - have a good one!


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## fightnut (Jul 5, 2007)

It always suprises me how many people have issues with the O-ring mounts on lights.

I've never had a problem with movement or shaking, and I ride a rigid! We have some very bumpy, rooty, rocky trails and my lights have never moved.

Are people with problems using them on skinny 25.4 mm bars?

I have OS bars, I *put one strip of rubber (from an old innertube) around the bar*, then the light with O-ring, and never have a problem with movement.

Switching modes is done with 2 fingers over the front edge of the light, and my thumb pushes the button.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Inner tube is a good idea, fightnut; I'll give that a try. I agree on gripping the top of the bezel to counter balance the rear switch, but the point was that Sky Ray could have done a side / top switch similar to the King flashlight. That would have made more sense for a light with this mass.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Old tube does not work for me, I gave it a shot :skep: Also the o-ring is quite difficult to remove comparing with the cateye mount. I have ritchey pro 25.4 bars



fightnut said:


> It always suprises me how many people have issues with the O-ring mounts on lights.
> 
> I've never had a problem with movement or shaking, and I ride a rigid! We have some very bumpy, rooty, rocky trails and my lights have never moved.
> 
> ...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I was considering that one also, but I thought skyray would have better heat dissipation. The result is that SR S6 dissipates heat very well and so does the 'other' 3 XML clone.



bad andy said:


> I pretty much agree with above ^^. The lighthead is just too massive and heavy to be practical. I'll be trying it tonight (on bars only) but am not expecting much stability. I'll probably have to change to a different type of mount vs. the O-Ring setup, I just can't see it being stable on my trails. We'll find out tonight.
> 
> I also have the 'other' 3x XML lighthead that is available. The much smaller one from this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-night-riding/new-clone-3-x-xml-t-6-49-88-shipped-814616.html and I compared just the beam shots in my backyard the other night. VERY, VERY negligible difference that I could see. I do like the brightness, and beam pattern, but the skyray was only just a hair brighter (though with various lack of quality controls, I could see the difference being more significant in others' experiences). Being a bulkier and heavier light I'd say the other 3x lighthead wins. The skyray is just tremendous, and that is a disadvantage to it.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

results from my testing last night. S6 vs. 'other' 3x tri-clone.

throw = s6, a little more
spill = tie, both about the same - very similar beam patterns despite larger size of s6
heat = tie, both about the same, neither one hot
battery/runtime = 3x triclone

my triclone came with a 6400mah battery, supposedly. It went fine throughout the entire ride. The s6 crapped out during the ride, maybe 1.25-1.5 hours in. I like to run my lights on high generally, maybe bring them down a bit during climbs, and off while resting. Presuming both actually came with the claimed 6400mah batteries, the s6 depletes it faster. Maybe it's slightly higher driven, maybe the cells are suckier? I might pull apart the battery to find out if I feel so motivated at some point. Either way with the performance being only negligibly better than the triclone, but the battery being worse, and the added weight of the s6 - I think it won't actually be seeing much use from me on my rides.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Regarding no alarm mode by SR S6 I have found som interesting gadgets on ebay:
this one looks probably ok, this one is similiar and that one who knows  Anyway it seems possible to include a batt. monitoring.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

I was just looking over this thread and was wondering....Someone mentioned that the S6 does power down from high to low. Anyone else able to confirm that? Was there any kind of strobe warning before the lamp went out? If not than at least you have the step-down which is better than nothing...consider that the warning. 

For those owning one of these lights you might want to carry a small back-up torch or light on the bars and turn it on when you think the main light is getting low on battery juice. That way when the main light goes out you don't end up running off the trail because the light went out. 

Funny, but the thought of this brought back an old story to mind. Back in the day of Halogen I had just purchased an upgraded Marwi 20watt halogen lamp that was powered by a small flat battery pack. The lamp had two modes, hi and low. Anyway, I'm about an hour in using the lamp, mostly on high with the new lamp bar mounted and my 10 watt Niterider on the helmet. I start down this really steep section of trail that is quite long, very fast and usually a real white-knuckle hoot. I'm seconds into the drop and popping into the big ring... Already my speed is almost beyond my control...suddenly I start seeing this flashing light and I'm like, WTF is that?!! (  ) When the flashing stops the lamp goes completely out leaving me with only the helmet light. This distracts me enough that I start to run off the side of the trail and into some high grass. Now anyone that knows about "high grass", knows that high grass can hide a multitude of dangerous obstacles...anything from ruts, logs, large rocks...etc. When I veered off the trail all I could think was, "OH SH*T"!! If there was a log in that grass I was going to catapult maybe twenty feet at the speed I was going. At moments like this ( < 1 sec ) it's surprising how fast the mind can visualize catastrophe. Thankfully, I didn't hit anything, regained control and made my way down the hill ( with a steady stream of p**s going down my leg.......Ah, the old days..


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Well my just cuts off w/o warning, but I have alarm clock on my computer, so I can set it up before ride. I use low and medium, there is not much difference between med/hi for me. That is the reason I bought that voltage indicator actually 



Cat-man-do said:


> I was just looking over this thread and was wondering....Someone mentioned that the S6 does power down from high to low. Anyone else able to confirm that? Was there any kind of strobe warning before the lamp went out? If not than at least you have the step-down which is better than nothing...consider that the warning.
> 
> For those owning one of these lights you might want to carry a small back-up torch or light on the bars and turn it on when you think the main light is getting low on battery juice. That way when the main light goes out you don't end up running off the trail because the light went out.
> 
> Funny, but the thought of this brought back an old story to mind. Back in the day of Halogen I had just purchased an upgraded Marwi 20watt halogen lamp that was powered by a small flat battery pack. The lamp had two modes, hi and low. Anyway, I'm about an hour in using the lamp, mostly on high with the new lamp bar mounted and my 10 watt Niterider on the helmet. I start down this really steep section of trail that is quite long, very fast and usually a real white-knuckle hoot. I'm seconds into the drop and popping into the big ring... Already my speed is almost beyond my control...suddenly I start seeing this flashing light and I'm like, WTF is that?!! (  ) When the flashing stops the lamp goes completely out leaving me with only the helmet light. This distracts me enough that I start to run off the side of the trail and into some high grass. Now anyone that knows about "high grass", knows that high grass can hide a multitude of dangerous obstacles...anything from ruts, logs, large rocks...etc. When I veered off the trail all I could think was, "OH SH*T"!! If there was a log in that grass I was going to catapult maybe twenty feet at the speed I was going. At moments like this ( < 1 sec ) it's surprising how fast the mind can visualize catastrophe. Thankfully, I didn't hit anything, regained control and made my way down the hill ( with a steady stream of p**s going down my leg.......Ah, the old days..


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> Well my just cuts off w/o warning, but I have alarm clock on my computer, so I can set it up before ride. I use low and medium, there is not much difference between med/hi for me. That is the reason I bought that voltage indicator actually


Never thought about that before. I suppose I could use the stop watch functions on my watch or the alarms on my cell phone but since I only use higher outputs when I need to and turn the lamps off when I stop to rest it would be real hard figuring out where to set an alarm just based on time. Nope the only thing that would work for me would be a voltage alarm hooked directly to the battery. Not sure those designed to work on Li-Po batteries are going to work right on Li-ion.

The Li-Po alarms ( I think ) are designed to monitor the voltages on the balance wires ( wired to the Li-po battery PCB.) Therefore because it is attempting to balance the cells at no less than 3.3 volts each, if the voltage on any one cell dips below that voltage the alarm goes off. If I'm wrong about that someone please correct me. I'm guessing at this because all the alarms I've looked at mention 2Series setups and the target voltage as 3.3volts (?). The adjustable ones vary a little above that but don't go over 5 volts. Not as simple as I first thought.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

I just did a controlled run time test with a fan blowing on the S6. Since I've experienced 1:15 run time on a ride using High and since there's so little difference between perceived brightness on High and Medium, I used Medium (2 LEDs) for the test, battery pack fresh off the charger. Brightness started to dip at 1:35, was down to very weak at 1:45 and the light died at 1:50. 

The battery pack supplied with this light sucks pretty bad. I also noticed that sitting for a week from full charge, the pack loses significant charge: The light will only run for a few minutes before turning off. 

I am definitely emailing Ric at Fancy Flashlights/CN Quality to see what he will do.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Now I think you guys know why I'm changing out the battery wiring.

Some of you guys don't like the nylon case. That doesn't bother me at all. I use mine, but it serves no purpose as I keep all my batteries in my frame bag.



betweenrides said:


> The mount part on the light itself is just hard plastic with no soft rubber for friction, so you'll need to add a shim or replace it with a better one. Even using the smallest O-Ring, it moves around too much.


I ended up getting that replacement mount when I dropped my bike and broke the mount. The new mount might be working better. I already had inner tube wrapped around the bar with the smallest o ring.



betweenrides said:


> I agree on gripping the top of the bezel to counter balance the rear switch, but the point was that Sky Ray could have done a side / top switch similar to the King flashlight. That would have made more sense for a light with this mass.


I kind of like the button where it is. I can switch it while keeping part of my hand on the grip. A remote switch would be better though.



MK96 said:


> Also the o-ring is quite difficult to remove comparing with the cateye mount.


Yes it is. That's very disappointing because that will deter me from removing the light when leaving the bike unattended.



bad andy said:


> Maybe it's slightly higher driven, maybe the cells are suckier?


I think the cells suck. I use my light sparingly, especially high, but the voltage drop at the end of my rides is alarming. It matches or exceeds my other lights that I use continuously.

It's throwing more money to fix problems that shouldn't exist, but I'm thinking about getting a Hope Universal mount. That should keep the light in place and make it easier to remove.

Replacement battery wiring makes alternative batteries possible. I'm thinking about the Xeccon $45 battery. With the mediocrity of the S6 battery, the battery might just give 5-6x times battery life. I might actually be willing to use my S6 all night.

Is the S6 still worth it at that point? I don't know.
S6: $69
Replacement mount: $4
Replacement battery wiring: $5
Xeccon 6 cell battery: $45
Replacement charger: $8

$131 to make this light work like you think it would by looking at the head. If in actual use it's comparable to the Magicshine MJ-880, I guess it's worth it. Maybe it'd be slightly better if the Hope mount work like I expect. It's a lot of hassle to get there though. If Sky Ray released their light like this for $100, with good bike modes, then I'd call it a steal. For now I'll say it's an okay platform for modding.


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

leaftye said:


> ...$131 to make this light work like you think it would by looking at the head. If in actual use it's comparable to the Magicshine MJ-880, I guess it's worth it. Maybe it'd be slightly better if the Hope mount work like I expect. It's a lot of hassle to get there though. If Sky Ray released their light like this for $100, with good bike modes, then I'd call it a steal. For now I'll say it's an okay platform for modding.


 I suppose it's true that these lights are cheaply made. I own the Tri-clone ( 3 x XM-L ) from the other thread and it has basically the same issues as the Skyray S6. Still if you want to improve the set-up the money that you spend doing so shouldn't be considered "money down the drain". If you by a new battery just remember that it can be reused if you buy another lamp with compatible connectors.

The mount is another problem altogether. Looking at the mount compared to earlier versions from Bikeray and MagicShine, the ones on the clone lamps are skinnier and don't have the rubbery grips of the MS/BR versions. This is not good because the tri-clones are heavier and need to be more stable. If you buy a new O-ring mount you have to make sure that the one you buy is made so that the wire exits from the rear ( mine exits from the rear ). I also found that choice of O-ring makes much more of a difference. When I use the red O-rings that came with my Bikerays I noticed that it is much more stable ( although harder to put on ). If you continue to have problems with the O-ring mounts it might be better to just convert using any of the clamp-on style mounts available. That should solve that problem.

One of the issues that came out in all of this is that "not having an advance warning when the power goes out is a big issue". There needs to be a series of strobe flashes ( or LED indicators ) to warn the rider at least 5 minutes before the light goes out. I consider this so important that I am going to test all of my favorite lamps just to make sure that they all have the strobe warning function.

If your lamp doesn't have an LED or strobe warning function there's not a lot you can do about it except keep an eye on your watch and have a back-up light going on low when you think the main lamp is nearing the cut-off time. Since I always have a torch on the bars for back-up this is no problem for me. If my main lamp goes out I can switch the torch to a higher mode and I'm good till I get back to the car.


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

leaftye said:


> Now I think you guys know why I'm changing out the battery wiring.
> 
> Replacement battery wiring makes alternative batteries possible. I'm thinking about the Xeccon $45 battery. With the mediocrity of the S6 battery, the battery might just give 5-6x times battery life. I might actually be
> 
> ...


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## MRMOLE (May 31, 2011)

Cat-man-do said:


> I also found that choice of O-ring makes much more of a difference. When I use the red O-rings that came with my Bikerays I noticed that it is much more stable ( although harder to put on )..


I've noticed this too. I think it's a silicone vs. rubber thing. I wanted to add that it also makes the light easier to adjust vertically. With the rubber you have to rotate the light past shere you want it and tends to move back a little on its own. The silicone is less elastic and more solid and stays were you adjust it much better.
Mole


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The indicator measures voltage (so 3.6 li-ion or 3.7 li-pol per cell is not a problem I think). I am going to hook it up between protection and lamp and test this setup.


Cat-man-do said:


> Never thought about that before. I suppose I could use the stop watch functions on my watch or the alarms on my cell phone but since I only use higher outputs when I need to and turn the lamps off when I stop to rest it would be real hard figuring out where to set an alarm just based on time. Nope the only thing that would work for me would be a voltage alarm hooked directly to the battery. Not sure those designed to work on Li-Po batteries are going to work right on Li-ion.
> 
> The Li-Po alarms ( I think ) are designed to monitor the voltages on the balance wires ( wired to the Li-po battery PCB.) Therefore because it is attempting to balance the cells at no less than 3.3 volts each, if the voltage on any one cell dips below that voltage the alarm goes off. If I'm wrong about that someone please correct me. I'm guessing at this because all the alarms I've looked at mention 2Series setups and the target voltage as 3.3volts (?). The adjustable ones vary a little above that but don't go over 5 volts. Not as simple as I first thought.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Cat-man-do said:


> I suppose it's true that these lights are cheaply made.


I like the body of the light just fine. It's the electronics that I don't like, at least those after the LED's. The driver and its UI is a poor match. The wiring is a PITA that's made worse by restricting use to the poor battery that it comes with. The mount could be better, but I could easily deal with it. I'd love it if the head were available separately for less than $30. I haven't taken my head apart yet, so I'm not sure how hard the driver is to swap out.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

I have to post a correction. Magicshine-type batteries work just fine with the head. It's the S6 battery that won't fit the Magicshine charger. I don't care about that. I almost modified the light for no reason. Now I need to pick which battery to buy.

There's the Xeccon battery I mention earlier. It's from a reputable companies with quality cells. It's 6600 mah.

Then there's the 4x26650 battery pack that fightnut found. 10000 mah and $15 cheaper. But it's from a company that doesn't seem to have a reputation, and the cells could be the same recycled rubbish found in Ultrafire 26650's so it'd have diminished capacity and might have balancing issues.

Also, I tried taking apart the head, but didn't get far. I couldn't find a way to pull the reflector out. I removed the rear of the light, but what looks like a pill seems to be bonded in. That gives this light a limited life because I can't upgrade the LED's or driver. If the cord at the mount goes bad, the light becomes junk unless there's a way to take the light apart to replace the entire cord.




UPDATE: I played it safe and went with the Xeccon battery. I'll build my own 26650 battery pack at some point.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I hooked up the light on a power supply and did some measurements, if you are interested  visit this link


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Thanks! I'm going to copy some of it here. I hope you don't mind.



> 1 LED: 0.58A
> 2 LED: 1.83A
> 3 LED: 2.01A


This confirms what we've noticed.

Based on the CREE calculator...

There's a huge difference between 1 & 2 LED's. Possibly up to 3 times more lumens.

Based on that current draw, the output with 3 LED's might be marginally more than with 2 LED's.

It also gives another indication that the battery pack has about half the capacity it's rated for.


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## betweenrides (Oct 19, 2010)

Thanks MK96 (and leaftye for explaining it).


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Of course I don't mind. I believe the light can be driven harder with some modification and sensibile UI without disco mode  


leaftye said:


> Thanks! I'm going to copy some of it here. I hope you don't mind.
> 
> This confirms what we've noticed.
> 
> ...


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

MK96 said:


> Of course I don't mind. I believe the light can be driven harder with some modification and sensibile UI without disco mode


If it can be taken apart. I didn't have any luck. Have you given that a shot?


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

No not yet. But definitely I want. I saw it somewhere disassembled but unfortunately I cannot remember where. The other 3XML clone drains more current than this S6, but seems that it becomes much hotter than S6. My S6 stays the whole time pretty warm outdoors at 6 degrees C. Maybe because its bigger and contains more material  Anyway I am waiting for the 18650 holders and PCB protection to build my own pack, since original pack is not worth to talk about - in my case. I have some older notebook batteries and voltage monitor already. Perhaps I will buy some 18650 3000mAh trustfires from DX or MF if the notebook cells would be dead enough.



leaftye said:


> If it can be taken apart. I didn't have any luck. Have you given that a shot?


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

Why not just go for RC LiPos? If you stick PCB on them they will be as safe as 18650, but most certainly cheaper than high quality/capacity 18650. Plus you'll get benefit of being able to charge them very quickly (@1-1.5C). If you need any advice about LiPo, I am willing to help.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I just want a kind of battery pack that is universal (2S2P-2S7P), which 18650 cells in parallel give. 12 cells for 10$/pair is about 60$ with 7.4V and maximal capacity (2S6P) 15600 mAh. PCB is about 5$, 20x 18650 holders for 6$. Is there any alternative for this in RC LiPos? 



bobale said:


> Why not just go for RC LiPos? If you stick PCB on them they will be as safe as 18650, but most certainly cheaper than high quality/capacity 18650. Plus you'll get benefit of being able to charge them very quickly (@1-1.5C). If you need any advice about LiPo, I am willing to help.


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

How about three of those? ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 2S1P 20C It will be much simpler, more compact, you'll only need to solder wires, and not worry about those battery holders (which I dislike). And if you have powerful enough charger, you'll be able to charge this pack in an hour, at 15A.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Hmm that is really nice alternative. Does this come with protection or not?



bobale said:


> How about three of those? ZIPPY Flightmax 5000mAh 2S1P 20C It will be much simpler, more compact, you'll only need to solder wires, and not worry about those battery holders (which I dislike). And if you have powerful enough charger, you'll be able to charge this pack in an hour, at 15A.


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

Of course not. But you'll add that $5 PCB, and off you go.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I gave it a shot and ordered this 5000 mah lipo. Thanks for advice, will let you know how it works 



bobale said:


> Of course not. But you'll add that $5 PCB, and off you go.


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

That's great. Just be careful with LiPo. Never discharge it below 3.0V per cell. And as pack has balance connector you'll be able to check whether cells are well matched by voltage.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I read about LiPo over internet and also saw some videos of LiPo venting & catching fire  So I definitely use them with caution :thumbsup:


bobale said:


> That's great. Just be careful with LiPo. Never discharge it below 3.0V per cell. And as pack has balance connector you'll be able to check whether cells are well matched by voltage.


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## GuyCope (Dec 11, 2012)

I've been following this thread with interest after finding it through a google search. I've recently bought a Skyray S6 via eBay.

Intial thoughts concur with what's been said, in that the build quality and heat dissipation seems to be good, the stock batteries are useless (mine only last 13-15mins from a full charge using 2 LEDs), and that having checked too, there's negligable difference between 2 LEDs and 3 on current used.

Following advice from a friend I've also ordered some 5000Mah Lipo's (although Infinergy not Zippy on his recommendation). On his assessments this should give me about 5hrs life on 3 LEDs. He recommends using 3 LEDS over just 2 even though the illumination gain is negilable, primarily because it'll spread the load across all 3 LEDs as opposed to 2, thus hopefully increasing the life of the LEDs.

Can't wait to give the light a try on my local forest trail as the illumination is certainly BRIGHT!!!!!!

I'll report back on my findings once I've received the batteries and built the pack up.

Guy


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Actually I use the oiginal protection from the ebay battery pack. I soldered the JST-XH male connector to the PCB. I use the balance connector to power the light, since the draw is about 2A. I am also going to add a low batt indicator. The temporary solution before I get the 5.5 mm bullet connector. And I also bought a 8000 mAh instead of 5000mAh, we will see how it performs :thumbsup: The setup image:











bobale said:


> Of course not. But you'll add that $5 PCB, and off you go.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

MK96 said:


> Actually I use the oiginal protection from the ebay battery pack. I soldered the JST-XH male connector to the PCB. I use the balance connector to power the light, since the draw is about 2A. I am also going to add a low batt indicator. The temporary solution before I get the 5.5 mm bullet connector. And I also bought a 8000 mAh instead of 5000mAh, we will see how it performs :thumbsup:


Nice, thanks for the pics. I'm about to undertake this too. Where did you get to 8000mah pack (hobbyking? Hobbypartz?) - it doesn't look too big or anything, good size.

Are you putting 5mm bullet connector on the PCB because of the 5mm bullets on the pack? I've been debating what connectors to use, I was thinking putting Dean's on batt and pcb... but that may not be very waterproof.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes, the battery is from hobbyking 17 x 7 x 1.7 centimeters and quite cheap. Yes, I will put 5mm bullet on the PCB with a fuse probably. Waterproof is for me a question of the case/backpack/... I want to modify trustfire X100 to a bike light which needs a 4S (probabaly also 8000mAh) battery. So I am going to have the Skyray and X100 batteries in one case each working independent with own PCB and low batt indicator.



bad andy said:


> Nice, thanks for the pics. I'm about to undertake this too. Where did you get to 8000mah pack (hobbyking? Hobbypartz?) - it doesn't look too big or anything, good size.
> 
> Are you putting 5mm bullet connector on the PCB because of the 5mm bullets on the pack? I've been debating what connectors to use, I was thinking putting Dean's on batt and pcb... but that may not be very waterproof.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

BTW I also measured the 2 flea-bay 2s2p packs. 1st 4 cells are 780, 949, 921, 975mAh, 2nd pack 4 cells are 1440, 1436, 1521 and 1359 mAh. From the 1st I got 1700mAh at 7.4V, from the 2nd 2800mAh at 7.4V. From the zippy flightmax 8000mAh battery (it came charged to 3.84V per cell ) I ran the light for 1 hour on high and MM read 3.82V per cell. Definitely a huge difference. The 1st flea-bay pack ran ~57 mins.


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## GuyCope (Dec 11, 2012)

Ok.

Received my LIPOs through on NYE.

My chum made my pack up for me and I set it going on a duration test last night.

4x5000mah's ran the S6 on all 3 LEDs for exactly 3hrs (the last 10 mins of that, the light had dropped down onto one LED so it looks like I'll get a bit of warning before all light vanishes).

It took a little over an hour to recharge the pack on my IMAX B6AC charger at 5A current

I'd post some info pics but the pesky post limit won't let me


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## bobale (Sep 23, 2012)

If you want them to last longer, charge LiPos to 4.1V per cell (select LiIon instead of LiPo on charger), and discharge not too deep. Also, if you're not going to use them for a longer period of time, store at 50% charger (3.8V per cell).


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

MK96 said:


> Yes, the battery is from hobbyking 17 x 7 x 1.7 centimeters and quite cheap. Yes, I will put 5mm bullet on the PCB with a fuse probably. Waterproof is for me a question of the case/backpack/... I want to modify trustfire X100 to a bike light which needs a 4S (probabaly also 8000mAh) battery. So I am going to have the Skyray and X100 batteries in one case each working independent with own PCB and low batt indicator.


I have my 8000 pack and am also going to use the PCB from the original eBay pack. It's the same PCB as you have pictured. I plan to use deans connector's (like my RC stuff) from the PCB to the pack. This way the pack is mostly untouched and i can use for rc stuff if needed, as the PCB would be easily removable.

My question is about the wiring on the PCB. The +/- leads are easy, but what was the original pack's white wire for? It is unconnected here, but It connected to the PCB at the top, under where marked "tr-0113b"


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The white wire is comon wire between cells. As you can see on the balance connector - it has 3 wires: minus, common, plus :thumbsup:



bad andy said:


> I have my 8000 pack and am also going to use the PCB from the original eBay pack. It's the same PCB as you have pictured. I plan to use deans connector's (like my RC stuff) from the PCB to the pack. This way the pack is mostly untouched and i can use for rc stuff if needed, as the PCB would be easily removable.
> 
> My question is about the wiring on the PCB. The +/- leads are easy, but what was the original pack's white wire for? It is unconnected here, but It connected to the PCB at the top, under where marked "tr-0113b"
> 
> View attachment 752737


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

actually this white wire is identical to my post 67, as you can see on the balance connector on the battery.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

MK96 said:


> Actually I use the oiginal protection from the ebay battery pack. I soldered the JST-XH male connector to the PCB. I use the balance connector to power the light, since the draw is about 2A. I am also going to add a low batt indicator. The temporary solution before I get the 5.5 mm bullet connector. And I also bought a 8000 mAh instead of 5000mAh, we will see how it performs :thumbsup: The setup image:


I have a noob question. I thought with RC batteries that you use the thick wires when you connect to the motor (or light in this case) and the thin wires were just for charging. It looks like you are using the thin wires for everything. I'm no expert though.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

MK96 said:


> The white wire is comon wire between cells. As you can see on the balance connector - it has 3 wires: minus, common, plus :thumbsup:


I referenced your post 67 where you are using the balance connector to power the light, with all 3 wires connected. Is connecting the white wire required for the PCB to function correctly?

I was simply going to do battery with dean's (on main leads) >> PCB with deans on +/- on the PCB. Would this work ok? Nothing would be connected to the com post, where the white wire is.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Yes the white wire is required since it is used for measuring the difference between cell 1 and 2. You can power the light with main leads but still you have to connect the white wire to the PCM module (in place of my blue wire)



bad andy said:


> I referenced your post 67 where you are using the balance connector to power the light, with all 3 wires connected. Is connecting the white wire required for the PCB to function correctly?
> 
> I was simply going to do battery with dean's (on main leads) >> PCB with deans on +/- on the PCB. Would this work ok? Nothing would be connected to the com post, where the white wire is.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Thick wires are used for high current draw >5A. This light can be powered from the balance leads. Thick wires are also used for charging with max. 40A current together with balance leads which are required for proper charging - they are used to measure each cell alone. They are also used to drain the current from the cell if there are cell differences during charging. So in this case I can used the light as on the above post. I charge the battery using main thick leads and also the thin balance leads for monitoring each cell.



varider said:


> I have a noob question. I thought with RC batteries that you use the thick wires when you connect to the motor (or light in this case) and the thin wires were just for charging. It looks like you are using the thin wires for everything. I'm no expert though.


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## zarr (Feb 14, 2008)

tagged for future ref


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

MK96 said:


> Yes the white wire is required since it is used for measuring the difference between cell 1 and 2. You can power the light with main leads but still you have to connect the white wire to the PCM module (in place of my blue wire)


Thanks MK, I will probably get some JST connectors to run to the PCB for the light connection, and leave the main leads for charging. Just cleaner that way.

Ok, next question - has anyone figured out how to disassemble the S6? Mine is only powering a single LED right now and I wanted to take a look inside.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

You have to unscrew the silver ring at the glass lens - it sits there pretty stiff. The next thing I did not take is probably to unscrew the glossy aluminium reflector since I do not see any other possibilities from the back side of the light head.



bad andy said:


> Thanks MK, I will probably get some JST connectors to run to the PCB for the light connection, and leave the main leads for charging. Just cleaner that way.
> 
> Ok, next question - has anyone figured out how to disassemble the S6? Mine is only powering a single LED right now and I wanted to take a look inside.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

The back cover unscrews. You can see the switch board, but I don't see a nice way of taking that out.

The reflector is in there pretty tight. I think it's either bonded, or threaded and bonded.

If your light is already broken and you are okay with the risk of breaking it completely, try this. With the front bezel removed, push the reflector down hard onto a grippy pad and twist counter-clockwise. The pad should grip the reflector without marring it.


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## varider (Nov 29, 2012)

MK96 said:


> Thick wires are used for high current draw >5A. This light can be powered from the balance leads. Thick wires are also used for charging with max. 40A current together with balance leads which are required for proper charging - they are used to measure each cell alone. They are also used to drain the current from the cell if there are cell differences during charging. So in this case I can used the light as on the above post. I charge the battery using main thick leads and also the thin balance leads for monitoring each cell.


Thanks for the explanation. So you connect both leads to the charger at the same time? I don't know anything about these newer RC batteries, but they look like the cheapest option for powering these lights.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

The charging process with hobby charger looks like this:
thick wires are used for charging, thin for - let's say cell inspection. Also bobale mentioned some info in this thread how to handle Lipo properly. I am very pleased with the performance of Lipo with my S6












varider said:


> Thanks for the explanation. So you connect both leads to the charger at the same time? I don't know anything about these newer RC batteries, but they look like the cheapest option for powering these lights.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Then it could be threaded and bonded. Do you have some pics of the removed back? I am willing to change the uC and remove the disco mode and also give it some more sensible on/off/mode change.



leaftye said:


> The back cover unscrews. You can see the switch board, but I don't see a nice way of taking that out.
> 
> The reflector is in there pretty tight. I think it's either bonded, or threaded and bonded.
> 
> If your light is already broken and you are okay with the risk of breaking it completely, try this. With the front bezel removed, push the reflector down hard onto a grippy pad and twist counter-clockwise. The pad should grip the reflector without marring it.


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## bad andy (Feb 21, 2006)

Well, I tried to look closer at how the back could unscrew? Couldn't see a thing. 

Weird thing is the light started working again. Go figure.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

After some time passed I figured out that the brown/black PCB cuts off at 2.34V under load - so it is quite dangerous for li-ion and twice as for lipo :-( Have to look around for some PCB that cuts off at 3V.

I created myself a bit of work more and took apart the light. I cut off some wires, so I have to solder them back (or replace with thicker ones) in near future  But this light case can easily take up to full potential of 3 XM-L2 U2 - so >3000 lm is closer to the chinglish specs :eekster:. Just need to heatsink the driver from KD without strobe, some clicky flashlight switch and some new XM-L2 U2 leds with nice tint :thumbsup:


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

As I suggested in my previous post I have decided to rework the whole light. I ordered a 30W KD driver without disco mode and now searching for some XM-L2 U2 leds on copper plate for a decent price - I have seen those 1A tint, but I like to have 4C or similar white, not that blueish white :skep: Or I'll buy some XM-L2 T6 4C from fasttech, but I would prefer XM-L2 U2. Any suggestions for leds?


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

*MK96*, can you clarify please: on your second picture, it looks to me that black LED mounting surface inside is an integral part of light's outer case. Am I correct? What is wall thickness (approximately)? Also, is it completely flat, or have some recessions for LED bases?

P.S. Good luck rebuilding the light!


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## Cat-man-do (May 16, 2004)

MK96 said:


> As I suggested in my previous post I have decided to rework the whole light. I ordered a 30W KD driver without disco mode and now searching for some XM-L2 U2 leds on copper plate for a decent price - I have seen those 1A tint, but I like to have 4C or similar white, not that blueish white :skep: *Or I'll buy some XM-L2 T6 4C from fasttech, but I would prefer XM-L2 U2.* Any suggestions for leds?


Oh heck, just go with the T6 4C....you can always upgrade later. With the right driver this thing is going to rock. :thumbsup: ( may I suggest using two XM-L2 T6 neutral bins ( 5000K range ) and one XM-L2 T6 4C... could help lessen the glare )


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

MK96 said:


> As I suggested in my previous post I have decided to rework the whole light. I ordered a 30W KD driver without disco mode and now searching for some XM-L2 U2 leds on copper plate for a decent price - I have seen those 1A tint, but I like to have 4C or similar white, not that blueish white :skep: Or I'll buy some XM-L2 T6 4C from fasttech, but I would prefer XM-L2 U2. Any suggestions for leds?


Only T6, but really great direct to copper mcpcb.
Noctigon XM20 MCPCB & CREE XM-L2 T6 4C LED [CREE XM-L2 T6 4C LED] - $6.89 : Led Flashlight-International Outdoor Store

I think he has a new tint that's not listed.

Thanks for showing it disassembled.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

leaftye said:


> Only T6, but really great direct to copper mcpcb.


Everything fine, except for "sold out" note...


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Missed that. Still, ask if there's a new tint not listed.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

-Archie- said:


> *MK96*, can you clarify please: on your second picture, it looks to me that black LED mounting surface inside is an integral part of light's outer case. Am I correct? What is wall thickness (approximately)? Also, is it completely flat, or have some recessions for LED bases?
> 
> P.S. Good luck rebuilding the light!


Yes the surface is integral part - that is what I really like and why I decided to pump 3A to the leds t:thumbsup: It is thick about 4-5 mm comparing the led plate which is about 2 mm thick. Overall the light head & reflector is quite heavy (as I remember about 300g). The led mounting surface is let's say "flat" but has some uniform circle stripes from manufacturing, but not recessions for 16 or 20 mm baseplate for leds. I read somewhere on CPF that the KD driver heats a lot but not that much using 2S cells and 3 leds in series, so it is quite efficient in this combination. I will attach the driver to the body & give it some thermal compound to let the heat pass away to the thick case. Anyway the Skyray 6T6 on lightmalls and Singfire on fasttech might have the same case.

Thanks Archie, I will post the result also to beamshots thread but need to fix the light to make shots with the old driver and then with the new one!



Cat-man-do said:


> may I suggest using two XM-L2 T6 neutral bins ( 5000K range ) and one XM-L2 T6 4C... could help lessen the glare


Cat, that sound interesting, never heard about such combination.



leaftye said:


> Missed that. Still, ask if there's a new tint not listed.


Yes, I will try to write them. Thanks Leafteye!


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> Yes the surface is integral part - that is what I really like and why I decided to pump 3A to the leds t:thumbsup: It is thick about 4-5 mm comparing the led plate which is about 2 mm thick. Overall the light head & reflector is quite heavy (as I remember about 300g). The led mounting surface is let's say "flat" but has some uniform circle stripes from manufacturing, but not recessions for 16 or 20 mm baseplate for leds.


Perfect! That way, thermal dissipation is superb. I've seen flashlights of similar design, but never encountered a bike light implementing this till now. If they'll eventually add the polished recessions for the LED bases, and threaded holes for mounting them with thermal paste instead of adhesive compound, the case will probably become an ideal one.



> Anyway the Skyray 6T6 on lightmalls and Singfire on fasttech might have the same case.


Seems so. On the other hand, 7-LED model have totally different case design (with common pill+reflector assembly inserted into the enclosure), but is also quite well-made one, in terms of cooling.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

These are 6-led models with probably the same design (maybe I buy Skyray 6T6 and check it). I noticed, that the KD driver is a torch driver, so I also need a clicky torch switch instead.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

Yes, and this is the reason I've decided not to buy it. Giving the current involved, most switches will fail soon (been there, done that at the age of powerful incandescent torches with 3 - 4A consumption)...


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Found one here, that can handle up to 10A. But there are lot of microswitches over there.

Edited: Microswitch can't hold its position, so it is useless in this manner. I went for KAN-028 & OMTEN PBS101C.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

I thought it looked like a direct thermal path. Thanks for confirming it. I almost sold this light. I would have regretted that. With a direct thermal path, it's good reason to upgrade the mcpcb's to Noctigons or Sinkpads for an even more direct thermal path and less thermal sage, which will probably result in more lumens with the same amount of current.

Do you think a sense resister mod will increase current? That's something at least. Hopefully later we'll figure out how to swap the driver to get rid of the blinkie modes and have all LED's on in all modes.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

I think this light is very good, better than the other 3 XML clone due to direct thermal path. The current sense resistor mod can be done here. But I would be very careful with that. You could burn the weak driver  The driver has 2 outputs to the leds, so you can't do anything but swap the driver if you want all leds on in all modes. The driver's 10 pin uC next to the switch states something like TR35 or IR35, can't read it properly, if someone could find out what this uC is, we'll be able to reprogram it and throw away the blinky disco mode.


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## leaftye (Dec 27, 2007)

Potting the driver should help prevent the driver from burning out.

I'm way behind on driver programming. I have the programmer and chip clip, but haven't even plugged it in yet. I'll take a look at mine though. Maybe the writing on mine is clearer.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Potting decreses temp, but still some components might be too weak to handle larger current. It draws about 2.6A at 7.0V from battery on high and has eficiency about 85%. If you mod it to draw 3.5 that is about one third more there won't be such noticable difference of lumens coming out. If you discover the writing on the uC, you can post photos here. This uC works (I think):
led1 led2:
on off
off on
on on
on on - disco mode


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> View attachment 845757
> 
> 
> View attachment 845758


In order of little warning, I have to say that lights looking identical to this one, might be actually of quite different design. Friend of mine has ordered 3-LED and 4-LED lights, but triple variant in fact have LEDs mounted on the pill inserted into outer enclosure. Quadruple one, OTOH, looks exactly like your triple (in terms of case design):




























More images (including full-size ones) are available here:
BikeTime • Просмотр темы - Фара Triple XM-L

Unfortunately, 4-LED light died almost instantly: the driver (labeled Olympia HX-1190B5) and one of LEDs are burned out.


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## MK96 (Nov 5, 2012)

Wow, thanks for the great information again *-Archie-*.

I noticed by this Skyray 3T6 XML:
1. different driver
2. named as 3T6 but without a label, mine has the Skyray S6 label
3. the back could not be unscrewed (from the link you gave) ? - so I would be cautious ordering this light if I see that.
4. quite bad thermal path since there is a small contact with the main body but OTOH a seems to have a lot of mass together with the reflector and inner pill.

By this 4 XML:
1. the driver is the one from DX I think, I recently saw it there with some info in the discussion there - "operating instructions". It suppose to have a lot of modes with hidden blinky etc ... Just I am wondering why the led fried itself.
2. good thermal path
3. unscrewable back - but different body from those Skyray 3-4-5-6 led classics ;-)
4. the reflector is just pressed with the front bezel to the leds but there is a small thermal path between them.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

MK96 said:


> 3. the back could not be unscrewed (from the link you gave) ?


Correct. Funny enough, my buddy has disassembled 4-LED light first, then tried hard to unscrew the back of 3-LED one, unless finally figuring out it's a single piece of metal... :madman:



> 4. quite bad thermal path since there is a small contact with the main body but OTOH a seems to have a lot of mass together with the reflector and inner pill.


In fact, I was surprized to see how big and heavy the light is: 308 g. As for sinking - it looks highly strange (main contact surface between pill and case is... rear side!), but works Ok.



> Just I am wondering why the led fried itself.


My understanding is, the driver has failed first, putting enormous amount of power to the LEDs. As they're connected in series, weakest of them died, acting as "circuit breaker" and disconnecting the current path...



> 4. the reflector is just pressed with the front bezel to the leds


No, it's fixed by central screw on both lights.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Archie, did the 4-LED light died before dissassembling or after it. I'm wondering if it was somehow badly put together. 
I've been playing with this driver quite some time, also running it with 3S pack and haven't had any real problems. I'm waiting to get another one from DX to try some mods with current sense resistors. See my thread at DX.
Also thermal path of this light is very good. Quite big and heavy housing is from one solid piece, no inserts or similar.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

ledoman said:


> Archie, did the 4-LED light died before dissassembling or after it. I'm wondering if it was somehow badly put together.


The light was opened first (to check the internals), then assembled back and tested. After in-house observations, it was mounted on the bike and test ride conducted: everything was fine. Next day it refused to switch on...



> Also thermal path of this light is very good. Quite big and heavy housing is from one solid piece, no inserts or similar.


Yes, it's the best design in terms of heat sinking.


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## ledoman (Apr 17, 2012)

Some condense in the light perhaps. I've found mine has came without o-ring at driver side. Also rear side might get into contact with the circuit if not pressfited back in place. I've put some capton tape there. Would you look after those possibilities so we would know more about it. Some closeup pictures of the driver might also help if some parts were fried.


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## -Archie- (Aug 25, 2013)

There's no any visible damage: it looks absolutely Ok. Probably, the driver will be simply replaced: I see no point spending time to identify & resolder broken component(s).


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