# SRAM XX Gripshift shifters



## ron4130 (Feb 4, 2008)

How would you feel if Sram launched XX Gripshifter?
Would you like it?
Would you not?

Let me know what you think about the idea.


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

100% for the idea....no 1000% for it!!

I'm gripshift anyhow, so being able to have really good kit with my favorite shifter would be just great


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## Slowly (Aug 9, 2006)

Let's put it this way.

No gripshift--- no XX for me.

Got that Sram??


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

For me there's two issues with going XX on the drivetrain.

1. That cassette costs $328!!!
2. No Gripshift

I guess I could get used to triggers, but still no way I'll spend that kind of money on a cassette. I think the price of XTR is already very extravagant.

Anyway, I would defintely be interested in XX twisters, especially if they figured out a way to make them even lighter (I for one would not mind if they were about 15-20mm shorter).


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## herothedog (Aug 24, 2009)

+1, see my post on the other thread.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

i too would love to see xx gripshift.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I'm definitely in for XX gripshift shifters. I won't go XX if it means switching to trigger shifters.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

I'd really only need to see a rear grip shifter. A small simple light "on/off" shifter for the front would be fine. I love my gripshift, but I would not mind pushing a lever and a button (like their fork lock outs) for front shifting duties on a 2x set up.

G


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## kramerrides (Apr 3, 2007)

Ditto. I'd love to see XX gripshift. Trigger shifters make me hesitate. Gripshift would make me jump for the group.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

if XX gripshifters existed i would be so deliriously happy i would seriously consider purchasing an XX drivetrain (when the prices come down that is)

especially:
if XX gripshifters were lighter than XO or Attack (sub 150g)
1/3 narrower
without useless gear indicator windows
with lighter/smaller cable adjusters
having 2 different grip size options for riders with smaller hands (like SRAM Amy)

are you santa then Ron?


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## FCom (Dec 7, 2007)

Heh, I would go against the flow. I don't care about gripshifts. Triggers are fast enough, accuarate and shifting is totally effortless compared to "grips".


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## Rovertd (Feb 22, 2004)

Gripshift XX ++++

You'd think SRAM would "dance with the one they brung". Gripshift essentially got them in the"componentry" door and launched their success.


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

Yes!!!!!! Please!!!!


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

I would be more pleased if they made XX level components in 9 speed. I don't really need a 10 speed cassette on a mountain bike.

I would like to see the X0 grip shifters without the window to drop some useless weight.


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## Alan-S (Nov 4, 2005)

Moved to X.O grip in 2005, and would never go back.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Slowly said:


> Let's put it this way.
> 
> No gripshift--- no XX for me.
> 
> Got that Sram??


My sentiments exactly


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

I will never use another type of shifter. I think Sram needs to have XX twisters.


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## Smart Sam (Jul 12, 2008)

What Slowly said. Short answer. Yes.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*I tried...*

to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is. XTR triggers can upshift two cogs in one quick push of the thumb, and downshift three cogs in another push; at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars between the palm and remaining three fingers.
Yes, with twisters one can dump the entire cassette at once, but when is this necessary? A shift of this range is better accomplished on the front derailleur. There is no valid reason to prefer twisters over well designed triggers, and SRAM has acknowledged that fact by not offering XX twisters.
As for the price, come on, of course it is expensive. XX offers lighter weight and better performance than other groups, with better gearing options, of course it is going to cost more. The star of this group is the cassette, it is expensive, but it is also made of steel (with the exception of the individually replaceable large cog) so it should last considerably longer than comparable cassettes made of titanium. With frequent chain replacement I would expect XX cassettes to last at least a couple of seasons under heavy use.


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

barrows said:


> to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
> I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is. XTR triggers can upshift two cogs in one quick push of the thumb, and downshift three cogs in another push; at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars between the palm and remaining three fingers.
> Yes, with twisters one can dump the entire cassette at once, but when is this necessary? A shift of this range is better accomplished on the front derailleur. There is no valid reason to prefer twisters over well designed triggers, and SRAM has acknowledged that fact by not offering XX twisters.
> As for the price, come on, of course it is expensive. XX offers lighter weight and better performance than other groups, with better gearing options, of course it is going to cost more. The star of this group is the cassette, it is expensive, but it is also made of steel (with the exception of the individually replaceable large cog) so it should last considerably longer than comparable cassettes made of titanium. With frequent chain replacement I would expect XX cassettes to last at least a couple of seasons under heavy use.


Funny, I disagree with you for almost the same reasons you have provided. The grip shift is easier to tune, easier to use, and just makes more sense. To each his own I guess. But I don't think you can make general comments like you have stated here.

As for Sram not producing XX grip shifters, I don't think that shows acknowledgement that grip shifters are inferior. Triggers are much more expensive and I would argue that this decision is driven by revenue rather then need.


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## sluflyer06 (Jun 30, 2009)

I share no love for triggers, constant half shifts and having to shift down and then back up 1 to get the derailler into the proper gear and not be stuck in the middle. I'll never go back to triggers. I run X.0 twists w/ X.0 RD. and XTR FD.

Shifting is faster, smoother and I never have accidental shifts like on triggers. Seemed liek no matter what position on the bar I'd hit the triggers in technical climbs.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

DavidR1 said:


> As for Sram not producing XX grip shifters, I don't think that shows acknowledgement that grip shifters are inferior. Triggers are much more expensive and I would argue that this decision is driven by revenue rather then need.


Exactly. They can charge way more for triggers than they can for twisters based on the price points they've already established for their X.0 level products. Funny because I don't really care if they jack the cost of the top end GS for no particular reason, since relative to the cost of purchasing a whole new XX drivetrain it's small potatoes anyhow.

Another no GS = no XX for me vote.


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## kark (Mar 11, 2007)

Gripshift would make me more interested in XX, but until I completely run out of XT level 8spd cassettes for my 2x8 I'm not in the drivetrain market.

Triggers are cool (kinda), but when I'm miles and miles from trialhead I'll take the simplicity and robust, mud, bent hanger, soiled chain tolerance of gripshift. Not to mention they're super light


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

no thanks...I tried all of them but preferred these shifters, Shimano's dual control, and SRAM or Shimano triggers.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

I feel your guys pain with corporation taking away a thing you like - but do not share it  I can not use grip shifters. My wrists object. Extremely uncomfortable. Anyway, after Shadow came out I am not looking back into SRAM land. Works quite fine with XTR triggers.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

had shadow XTR and it worked well enough. gripshift is what i now run and like it more.

as for the gear indicators, i actually use the front one sometimes in races. gives me a faster indication if my chain is rubbing as to which way to adjust the FD one click (without accidentally shifting off the middle ring one way or the other)


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

whybotherme said:


> as for the gear indicators, i actually use the front one sometimes in races. gives me a faster indication if my chain is rubbing as to which way to adjust the FD one click (without accidentally shifting off the middle ring one way or the other)


Totally agree. I smashed the crap out of window cover (it's in little pieces back on the trail somewhere) plus indicator arrow on my front X.0 grip shift a few weeks back during a race, and for the remaining 2 stages plus rides since that time it's been a major PITA for that very reason. Rear I could do without more easily, especially on 2x9 where all gear combos are 'safe".

Other than the indicator it still shifts perfectly though.


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## chuggboy (Jan 10, 2005)

I'm sorry sluflyer06?

'constant half shifts and having to shift down and then back up 1 to get the derailler into the proper gear and not be stuck in the middle' 

It's just like twists. Shift once, either twist or trigger, and the the derailler moves once. Twice, and it moves twice. 

The only 'half shifts' should be on the trim for the front twister.

Sounds like you were riding a poorly set up bike Don't dismiss it just off one ride. 

As for the discussion, I'm all for the variey. I like triggers personally, but would love to how SRAM would pimp a set of twisters.


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## Slim83 (Nov 2, 2006)

> As for Sram not producing XX grip shifters, I don't think that shows acknowledgement that grip shifters are inferior. Triggers are much more expensive and I would argue that this decision is driven by revenue rather then need.


I seriously doubt it is the price difference between the 2 that was the deciding factor.

Most companies use logic when deciding wether to make certain products. My guess would be that in order to make them better and lighter than the xo shifters it would cost a good bit of money and that they more than likely weighed out the amount they would sell compared to the cost to design and produce new ones and the numbers they needed just were not there.

I don't think the MAN is trying to get you down by not making grip shift. I do believe if enough people ask for it you might see it in the future. When Sram does decide to make them I am willing to bet their profit margin will be the same as the triggers so I don't think they are going to short change themselves.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

But don't you understand the marketing move of SRAM???

they will not make gripshift until they sell enough of the trigger version
that way they sell to lot of people twice

is very common here in europe y lot of products:
ex.: new cars models begin only with gasoline engines, and after 1 year they begin to sell the diesel version (in europe 70% of the cars are diesel)


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## kark (Mar 11, 2007)

Slim83 said:


> I seriously doubt it is the price difference between the 2 that was the deciding factor.
> 
> Most companies use logic when deciding wether to make certain products. ...


Thats correct but incomplete. 
Most companies use focus groups, sales projections & marketing stategies to compare/assess potential products for development.

This info is compiled by marketing departments, which from what I've seen, have developed their own unique flavour of "logic". Then interpretations and decisions are made taking into account market share, bottom line profitability and perhaps future directions of product line.

It doesn't seem to me a huge stretch to imagine that sram determined gripshift as being harder to market for being a bit boring compared to the whiz bang-ness of "new" triggers. As to the bottom line profitability, if it's harder to market and sell then it's harder to get profit from them.

thats my guess anyway, but I work in design & engineering depts and have a "" view of what happens in marketing departments.


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## Rovertd (Feb 22, 2004)

Who is SRAM competing with in the gripshift market? 

They continue to develop their triggers to capture more market share from Shimano.

Maybe if research shows everyone leaving gripshift trend towards Shimano they might be motivated. 

I saw the XX rear and front derailleur in person yesterday and was tremendously underwhelmed. It looked weird rather than cool. If functionally and performance wise it is better than sliced bread I might bite, but looks alone definitely didn't make me reach for my wallet.


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## Slim83 (Nov 2, 2006)

kark said:


> Thats correct but incomplete.
> Most companies use focus groups, sales projections & marketing stategies to compare/assess potential products for development.
> 
> This info is compiled by marketing departments, which from what I've seen, have developed their own unique flavour of "logic". Then interpretations and decisions are made taking into account market share, bottom line profitability and perhaps future directions of product line.
> ...


You have more experience than me. Hopefully they do release it soon and don't price gouge the hell out of it.


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## josliver (Oct 5, 2007)

I want to keep using gripshift shifters. I think Sram needs to have XX twisters.
If they do, I will change for 10s, to have the 36t cassete.
With 27/ 40 it will be better for some "special tracks".


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## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

XX needs gripshift option.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

*YES!!! * I would make the purchase of the XX Groupo,* if* there SRAM made an XX Gripshift. Even if it weighed more than the trigger shifts. My Vote.....YES!!!


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## bike_freak (Dec 24, 2003)

Another XO user here that would buy XX straight away if it were available in gripshift! 

On another note.. really wish they offered XX as a right hand shifter only option aswell, plenty of people out there using 1x9 or 1x10 these days.....


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## adept1 (Jul 25, 2008)

bike_freak said:


> Another XO user here that would buy XX straight away if it were available in gripshift!
> 
> On another note.. really wish they offered XX as a right hand shifter only option aswell, plenty of people out there using 1x9 or 1x10 these days.....


https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=32873


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## Ninko (Jul 19, 2006)

I'll buy XX if there are some XX gripshifters.
Does anyone know if there exist NOBU Shifters for 10 speed? They don't have to be sram, I just need light!! 10spd gripshifters!


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## OneL (Apr 19, 2008)

I'd go XX if there were a gripshift option but not until. May have to horde up on XO gripshifters if this is an indicator of future trends with SRAM.


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## MrEconomics (Aug 23, 2004)

XX is a joke given the replacement costs of the components. You would think 10 speed was some new revolutionary invention that they can charge such $$. Insane. 

I switched to twists this year and could never imagine going back.


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## willrace4food (Jan 11, 2009)

I just got a new bike and had to go with XO again. I would have loved to get XX if Gripshift was available for it.


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## Merc (Feb 18, 2006)

I would love it. I was mortified when I heard the gripshift might get dropped. My wife and I both were trying to figure out how we would ever change gears again. The horror.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

can't the X0 gripshifts be modded quite easily to adapt to the XX's 10 speed cassette?

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the top WC guys had this done... Absalon maybe?


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

MI_canuck said:


> can't the X0 gripshifts be modded quite easily to adapt to the XX's 10 speed cassette?
> 
> I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that one of the top WC guys had this done... Absalon maybe?


i don't know how easy that could be...

assuming the distance between gears is different, you would need a new shifter body with different spacing between the "teeth" that the spring engages. (provides detent for gear selection)


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

No XX for me with triggers!!

But you don't need the ultra expensive XX at all to be able to run 10s anyway:

Just for testing of my new 10s titanium cassettes i installed a Shimano 10s STI shifter...it worked like a charm BUT i just got to like my grip-shifters over the past couple years! The shifting with grip-shifters is so much more intuitive and faster. The grip-shifters are lighter too...what else could we ask for. Me too i cannot understand SRAMs reasoning here. What i can tell is that at least half or more of the guys using SRAM use Grip-shifters. It can't be that hard to make the modification to the mold to make the twisters 10s...i sure hope anyone else (like Microshift) jumps onto the occasion and offers a 10s compatible twist-shifter.

Shown below:
Shimano SL-R770 (10s, right side only) standard: 129g / without gear display and with Al-bolt: 115g

So all you need is that right-hand Shimano shifter and a 10s cassette and chain....this converts your bike into 10s at a fraction of the cost!

Here's the original 10s thread:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=532561


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

nino said:


> But you don't need the ultra expensive XX at all to be able to run 10s anyway...So all you need is that right-hand Shimano shifter and a 10s cassette....this converts your bike into 10s at a fraction of the cost!


I'd actually prefer not to go 10s, but it's the wide gearing range of XX that I want with 2x front chainring setup. For example the 11-36 rear with either the 26/39 or 28/42 rings. Different people may have different needs, but either of those would be amazing ranges for 99% of the riding and racing I do. Just slam it in a gear and go, without worrying about pushing the limits of cross chaining and chainline.

If SRAM had delivered this wide gearing range in a 2x9 I would be even happier, but I suppose they need to make their $$$ off of us and couldn't do so by introducing it as 9s that was compatible with all their existing stuff. I realize my suggestion means larger jumps between rear cogs with 11-36 9s but that's fine for me. With the trails I ride, when I want to shift I usually want a noticeable difference in ratio, not some tiny incremental ratio change. YMMV.


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

sram too has a 10 speed similar to one posted by Nino

but what about rear derailleur compatiblity ?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

eliflap said:


> sram too has a 10 speed similar to one posted by Nino
> 
> but what about rear derailleur compatiblity ?


The Shimano shifter i show above costs a fraction of the XX shifters, it allows you to use any Shimano derailleur and paired to non-XX 10s cassettes this is MUCH cheaper than XX.

I personally don't see the need for that huge range 36 cassette at all. 34 is more than i would need and if that isn't sufficient you could always go down a teeth on the chainrings.

BUT:
XX cranksets come with a custom BCD where your chainring/gearing options are pretty much limited.XX chainrings again cost a fortune too and the crankset itself isn't lightweight at all.

A lightweight double crankset with a more common BCD allows you to adapt chainring sizes according to your needs. Paired to a closer spaced 10s cassette like 11-32 or 11-34 this gives you all the gears you might ever need---> cheaper AND lighter too:thumbsup:

Did i already mention that i am using that 10s Shimano-shifter with a 167g / 11-32 / 10s cassette with a 143g DA derailleur? That's a LOT lighter than XX.

Pricing of those XX-parts is just insane. You might get your hands on it by buying a complete bike equipped with XX but once parts wear out you get ripped off...


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

oh...i not agree with Sram to choose 120-80 BCD .....


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

nino said:


> I personally don't see the need for that huge range 36 cassette at all. 34 is more than i would need and if that isn't sufficient you could always go down a teeth on the chainrings.
> 
> A lightweight double crankset with a more common BCD allows you to adapt chainring sizes according to your needs. Paired to a closer spaced 10s cassette like 11-32 or 11-34 this gives you all the gears you might ever need---> cheaper AND lighter too:thumbsup:


Any specific suggestions for a drivetrain (9s or 10s) with 2 ring front setup that will have equivalent low gearing to a 26f x 36r, with external BB, and all gears available without worrying about excessive cross-chaining?


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

why not just go with a 9sp 11-34 rear with 24/36 front rings


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

MI_canuck said:


> why not just go with a 9sp 11-34 rear with 24/36 front rings


Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.

Any suggestions for crank/rings, with external BB that would give a good enough chainline to use all gears, at a reasonable weight?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Circlip said:


> Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.
> 
> Any suggestions for crank/rings, with external BB that would give a good enough chainline to use all gears, at a reasonable weight?


easy - Lightning carbon

Mine is 520g:thumbsup: with 27/40


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

nino said:


> easy - Lightning carbon
> 
> Mine is 520g:thumbsup: with 27/40


27 x 34 not low enough for me. Big climbs here, some of which are very steep. If they produce a 2-ring 104/64 spider for the Lightning cranks as you mention you are trying to get them to do in the other thread, that may be an option, as I need rings with a good setup of ramps and pins.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Circlip said:


> 27 x 34 not low enough for me. Big climbs here, some of which are very steep. If they produce a 2-ring 104/64 spider for the Lightning cranks as you mention you are trying to get them to do in the other thread, that may be an option, as I need rings with a good setup of ramps and pins.


No problem- the Lightning 64/104 spider can be mounted the other way round for 2 chainring use.

the 64 inner BCD allows you to choose chainrings as small as you possibly want.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

Circlip said:


> Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.


Looking at the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site, it seems that a 36x11 would net you about 25-28mph (depending on if you ride a 26er or 29er) @ 100rpms... I'd be willing to "sacrifice" going any faster than that


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> Looking at the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site, it seems that a 36x11 would net you about 25-28mph (depending on if you ride a 26er or 29er) @ 100rpms... I'd be willing to "sacrifice" going any faster than that


40x11 allows me to pedal up to ca. 52-55 km/h (32-34 mph) which is fast enough for my needs.


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> Looking at the gear calculator on Sheldon Brown's site, it seems that a 36x11 would net you about 25-28mph (depending on if you ride a 26er or 29er) @ 100rpms... I'd be willing to "sacrifice" going any faster than that


True enough in most situations, but I participate in some marathon races that not only have some demanding climbs, but also some fast flat or mildly descending fireroads where 25mph at 100rpm on a 26er could actually have me spat off the back off the group I'm riding with. You know from your road racing background that's not something you want to happen if you're in with the "right" crowd.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

Oh, well that's simple to fix... your wheels are just too small


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## Circlip (Mar 29, 2004)

Andrea138 said:


> Oh, well that's simple to fix... your wheels are just too small


Could be. Maybe a 36er is the key to solving all my problems. 

http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/14/36-inch-wheels-the-next-big-thing/

After all, no one really needs to continue suffering along on those 29er kiddie-size wheels.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

nino said:


> Did i already mention that i am using that 10s Shimano-shifter with a 167g / 11-32 / 10s cassette with a 143g DA derailleur? That's a LOT lighter than XX.


Wait, you mean that alum cassette you sell that lasts 150 miles?
yea, i bet that XX made of STEEL lasts the same.

not everybody gets replacement parts every other day buddy, some of us even ride the same parts for a few years!


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

all these mechanical gear talk makes me think about the DiXTR group coming soon....?


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

nino said:



> The Shimano shifter i show above costs a fraction of the XX shifters, it allows you to use any Shimano derailleur and paired to non-XX 10s cassettes this is MUCH cheaper than XX.
> 
> I personally don't see the need for that huge range 36 cassette at all. 34 is more than i would need and if that isn't sufficient you could always go down a teeth on the chainrings.
> 
> ...


Very Good Points. Thanks!!! I really liked the 11-32 rear and 30/45 front, but replacement costs are going to be expensive. Might just go w/ XTR w/ X.0 Rear derailleur and X.0 grip shifts. Good post.:thumbsup: Thanks,
Kevin


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> Wait, you mean that alum cassette you sell that lasts 150 miles?
> yea, i bet that XX made of STEEL lasts the same.


I'm pretty sure Nino is referring to the Ti cassettes that he's been selling for the last little while. I've been running them for the last 2 years or so, and I have no trouble with wear. Not any more than the XTR or XT cassettes that I used before anyhow.


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## Hand/of/Midas (Sep 19, 2007)

wannabeRacer said:


> all these mechanical gear talk makes me think about the DiXTR group coming soon....?


electric kits are so stupid. why take something as pure as riding a bike and ruin it.


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> electric kits are so stupid. why take something as pure as riding a bike and ruin it.


because that is what humans specialize in.

i have not ridden Di2, but have heard from reliable sources that it is pretty amazing from a shifting perspective.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> Wait, you mean that alum cassette you sell that lasts 150 miles?


Not aluminium - titanium! They last about on par with XTR but are lighter and much cheaper than XX.

Anyway - i just tried to show alternative ways to be able to run 10s. You don't need to spend a fortune on XX-parts to do this. The 10s shifter i showed is around 50$, the cassette is cheaper too. "My" way also offers the option of free choice of chainrings up front. Today there's a lot of options to convert existing cranks into double cranks too so you might not even need to change your current cranks to convert to 2x10 ---->Lighter and more options for less money.


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## Andrea138 (Mar 25, 2009)

Circlip said:


> Could be. Maybe a 36er is the key to solving all my problems.
> 
> http://twentynineinches.com/2007/02/14/36-inch-wheels-the-next-big-thing/
> 
> After all, no one really needs to continue suffering along on those 29er kiddie-size wheels.


I know, right?!? Am I tall enough to ride one of those?


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## wannabeRacer (Feb 9, 2004)

Hand/of/Midas said:


> electric kits are so stupid. why take something as pure as riding a bike and ruin it.


because as human can do it, and I can't wait to ride my bicycles in the mountains of the moon or mars


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

GripShift or nothing. I won't own triggers.


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## B R H (Jan 13, 2004)

Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!


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## herothedog (Aug 24, 2009)

B R H said:


> Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!


From my experience, grip shifters are the least likely to break or wear out of all the shifters out there. I still have an original late 1990s SCACHS 8 speed shifters that work like new (well almost, they are at least 10 years old). I switched back to grip shifters because I kept breaking my X.0 shifters.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

B R H said:


> Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!


Well, I can definitely speak from experience. I had a set of Grip shifters on my old Diamondback DBR seven speed. Through multiple crashes, after nine years, no problem. In 2005 I purchased my Titus Switchblade w/ Grip Shifts, nine speed, and through crashes and rides in Utah, Colorado, Oregon, California, I have had ZERO problems. They are simple, easy, and accurate, and light, that's why i want them again. I can never go back to thumb/finger shifters. Just my experience over 14 years. Did I mention nothing happened to them after some really nasty crashes!!!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

barrows said:


> Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking....at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars....


I just have to add here that motorcycles have the throttle on the right side as well as the front brake. It is absolutely common to gas it during hard braking. Those who ever watched a MotoGP race know how this looks like when they do those nice close-up views of either the gas- or brake-hand. You need only 1 finger on the brakes so you sure have enough grip and movement in your hand to control either the throttle on a motorcycle or some little twist for shifting on a bike!

Guys using Grip-shift don't brake with their heels nor do they have to wait for shifting while cornering

Me too i was a STI-believer for many,many years. But now i have a hard time going back to triggers.


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## B R H (Jan 13, 2004)

That was basically my point. I've had the same 8-speed GripShift for many years thru lots of crashes & lots of miles. ZERO trouble whatsoever, unlike any trigger shifter I've had. Sometimes a product is made so well that once the market is saturated, sales plummet making it appear as though there is no longer any demand!


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

B R H said:


> Does grip shift ever wear out or break in a crash? It's too bad lots of products never make it to market because they were done right the first time - like 8 speed grip shifters!


I bought my Sram 9.0SL grip shifters in 1999 and I haven't had to replace them or any part of them, yet.


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

f3rg said:


> I bought my Sram 9.0SL grip shifters in 1999 and I haven't had to replace them or any part of them, yet.


Ditto, and they work great with the current xo x9 stuff.
G


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

All these positive reviews of grip shifters, along with many friends that said they'd never go back to triggers, has made me just too curious that I'm taking the plunge... X0 twist shifters on the way! :thumbsup:


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## B R H (Jan 13, 2004)

Beware that the "lower" level grip shifters are preferred by many because they use a smaller diameter grip - "Amy" grip. Maybe originally for smaller hands, but mine are bigger than normal & I much prefer Amy grip. Matches the size of my bar grips perfectly.


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

Let me say 2010 gripshift must be around 150g and for 9v-10v . I dont need an x0 not improved .


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

SRAM *has* to be working on a XX gripshift as we speak... it just makes too much sense... They gotta know full well how much they are loved by many, and racers especially...

I'm thinking they're just chosing not to release *everything* XX all at once to leave something fresh for next season... Same like the cassette... it's dubbed '1070'... meaning there is still room left for a '1090'... I'm gonna predict SRAM releases some XX gripshifts and a 1090 cassette at one of the next big shows like Sea Otter or Interbike...

I'm even thinking the OP works for SRAM or has some affiliation... he's probing us...


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

MI_canuck said:


> Same like the cassette... it's dubbed '1070'... meaning there is still room left for a '1090'...


Room for a $500 cassette?

Will there be a company brave enough to get back to high end 8-speed drivetrain? 2x8 that is. Probably not..


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

No, they'll drop the price of the 1070 and then release the 1090 at the $300 pricepoint... Will be all titanium...


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Look what the Fedex man dropped off today... 

Not XX obviously, but still stoked... can't wait to try them out! :thumbsup:


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

Very Nice, Congratulations!!! I've had my X.0 grip shifts for five years, wish they looked as new as yours looks. Very Sweet. You're going to love them.

Kevin


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*No...*



Curmy said:


> Room for a $500 cassette?
> 
> Will there be a company brave enough to get back to high end 8-speed drivetrain? 2x8 that is. Probably not..


That would not be brave, it would be foolish form a business perspective.
Those who really desire 8 speed that badly are few, and they can cobble together an 8 speed set up with some searching and ingenuity.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*you...*



Circlip said:


> Could do that. 36x11 top gear probably a little smaller than ideal.
> 
> Any suggestions for crank/rings, with external BB that would give a good enough chainline to use all gears, at a reasonable weight?


Could use a Rotor Agilis or the new 3D. These use standard external BBs and specific 2x9,10 cranksets with appropriate chainlines. On my 2 x 9 setup with the Agilis the big ring accesses all gears and the small ring accesses all but the the smallest two cogs. These cranks run 74-110 bcd 5 arm, so you can run inner rings down to 24. I am running 26-40 TA rings on mine.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

barrows said:


> Those who really desire 8 speed that badly are few, and they can cobble together an 8 speed set up with some searching and ingenuity.


Those who really need 10 speed are fewer. They just do not know that.

I would not rule that out. Look at Canon shipping some of their new flagship compact camera with less megapixels then the previous generation.


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## B R H (Jan 13, 2004)

I agree. Even 9 speed is nothing but trouble in any real amount of dirt/mud. I like to actually feel a difference when I shift gears. Traded 9 speed for 8 years ago - no comparison. Sure glad I stocked up on 8 speed XTR cassettes. They're worth double what I paid for them now!


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*Just to be clear...*



Curmy said:


> Those who really need 10 speed are fewer. They just do not know that.
> 
> I would not rule that out. Look at Canon shipping some of their new flagship compact camera with less megapixels then the previous generation.


I said "desire", big difference to "need". Companies need to produce what people desire, despite what they actually need.
I need 9 speed for my riding in combination with two rings up front, and ten would be better, as the 11-34 cassette has slightly bigger steps than I would really like.
With a triple, I would not expect anyone to need ten speeds. Perhaps 12-27 8 speed would be adequate as well-but I much prefer the simplicity, better chainline, and lighter weight of two rings up front. 
Of course, your needs could be totally different from mine. I love the fact that 10 speed XX is available as it just offers more choices in gearing.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

MI_canuck said:


> Look what the Fedex man dropped off today...
> 
> Not XX obviously, but still stoked... can't wait to try them out! :thumbsup:


Hmm... new packaging.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

barrows said:


> I said "desire", big difference to "need". .


I know, I have switched the verb deliberately.  But we have digressed. I bet there will be spiffy new overpriced XX grip shifters for all of us who confuse desire with need.


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## yellowbook (Aug 21, 2005)

I just got my new set, man....forgot how crisp shifting can be with new components!
Awesome!

I called Sram and asked about XX grip shift.......had this lady on the phone who told me it was due to ergonomical issues with the brake levers and rider hands.....   :skep:


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

yellowbook said:


> I called Sram and asked about XX grip shift.......had this lady on the phone who told me it was due to ergonomical issues with the brake levers and rider hands.....   :skep:


she was throwing you a curve ball


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

yellowbook said:


> I just got my new set, man....forgot how crisp shifting can be with new components!
> Awesome!


Indeed! :thumbsup: I just installed mine tonight...

Still waiting for my shorty grips but still HAD to take it out for a spin  ... Wow!!... MUCH quicker shifting than I was expecting... Nice and snappy as you expect from SRAM... Didn't even need any real adjustments in switching from the X9 triggers - they just worked right away... I do have to get used to the direction in which to rotate them (these are my first gripshifts), but otherwise I'm pretty stoked! Will be taking them out for a real ride tomorrow


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

amillmtb said:


> Hmm... new packaging.


Sticker on back had '2009 wk 29' so they are fairly recent... mid July '09


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

MI_canuck said:


> Sticker on back had '2009 wk 29' so they are fairly recent... mid July '09


They had the clear plastic boxes when I got mine in May.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

Remember the 2004 simulated carbon XOs


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## AlexRandall (Apr 2, 2009)

I've still got 2 sets of them!!! 

I've regripped one pair, and I should update the others. Mine are showing some wear as I've damaged the clear gear indicator cover.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Jake Pay said:


> Remember the 2004 simulated carbon XOs


SRAM should make some gripshifts with housings out of real carbon... Those would be super light! Would be worthy of Blackbox. :thumbsup:


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

amillmtb said:


> They had the clear plastic boxes when I got mine in May.


And oddly... the SRAM rubber grips that are included with the X0 gripshits aren't even shortys (ie. 90mm) - they are full length 105mm grips... :skep: Seem kinda silly as that would put the twist grip and brake levers waaaay too far inboard


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Installed! Lock grips came in today. Riding after work... :thumbsup:


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## bhsavery (Aug 19, 2004)

yellowbook said:


> I just got my new set, man....forgot how crisp shifting can be with new components!
> Awesome!
> 
> I called Sram and asked about XX grip shift.......had this lady on the phone who told me it was due to ergonomical issues with the brake levers and rider hands.....   :skep:


Really? Does anyone use gripshifts with Elixer levers??
Doesn't seem like that would be any different.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

bhsavery said:


> Really? Does anyone use gripshifts with Elixer levers??
> Doesn't seem like that would be any different.


See my pics just above 

No issues with Elixirs... just had to rotate the gripshifts more... So I can't see the '9' mark... no biggie... But if definitely works and works WELL!


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Curmy said:


> I bet there will be spiffy new overpriced XX grip shifters for all of us who confuse desire with need.


oh really, gripshifters for all? that would be terribly jolly

i desire gripshifters
i need gripshifters

i'm a gripshifter user, i really do like gripshifters, bikes don't seem right without them

have here in a dusty box XTR combo brake/shifters + XTR rapidfire + XO triggers - i don't like them, i use gripshifters!

won't buy XX unless SRAM comes out with compatable gripshifters (or i suddenly become clever enough to devise a way to mod existing shifters - unlikely).

...but ultimately i'm not prepared to pay for any XX componants till prices come down out of the stratosphere

weighed my XO gripshifters today 167g - dammit Jake Pay carbon look plastic is lighter afterall


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

"_weighed my XO gripshifters today 167g - dammit Jake Pay carbon look plastic is lighter afterall_"~culturesponge










That's 82.9g for the rear gripper, 82.3g for the front..Grand total of 165.2g.......

My SRAM XX f/d works great with a gripper








​
:lol:


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

Gripshift really is amazing!!! :thumbsup:

Rode my first ride with them today - a bit of getting used to which direction to twist, and the shorter grips - but overall makes shifting so much more efficient I find. Especially on climbs that catch you off guard, like a blind corner at the bottom of a descent that goes right into a steep climb... The micro trim on the FD is very useful indeed (I wasn't expecting it to be but it truly is!). Also I find it keeps your thumbs securely around the bars more for better grip at all times. And the ability to dump a bunch of gears for some descents or flat sections is nice - just quicker than with a trigger.

So yeah - I definitely think XX absolutely NEEDS to have Gripshift added to the gruppo...


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## herbn (Sep 17, 2005)

i've used gripshift for a couple years ,i kept jamming my thumbs on trigger shifters, on my dh bike however i have xtr triggers,maybe for the braking shifts,it's just so much bouncier . I use full length clampon grips with the gripshifters, i use the .5-1 shimano compatable gripshifters because i really think shadow deraileurs stay out of trouble better than sram stuff,you should see all the gouges on my sram stuff.I don't actually break the sram deraileurs but the impacts can knock things out of aliegnment ,shimano's hit less ,therefore they stay in adjustment. I think some sort of toggle action di2 gripshift with knobs on the shifter cone for sort of a combination of thumbshift and gripshift action, with the zero pressure of electric shifting,wireless is probabely just around the corner too. I'll predict rear vision on a flight deck type of handlebar screen ,recorded with a front view too,should come in handy for those hit and runs.


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## Broccoli (Jun 11, 2008)

culturesponge said:


> i desire gripshifters
> i need gripshifters


I was talking about desire/need for a 10-speed drivetrain. Gripshifters are obviously an ergonomics choice. I can not stand narrow grips.

Just tried second gen dual control XT paired with Shadow and dual-ring SLX front. Very nice. No clutter.

XX prices are ridiculous.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

MI_canuck said:


> Installed! Lock grips came in today. Riding after work... :thumbsup:


WOW!! That looks incredibly nice. Really nice!!! Congratulations!!!:thumbsup:


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

Curmy said:


> I was talking about desire/need for a 10-speed drivetrain. Gripshifters are obviously an ergonomics choice. I can not stand narrow grips.
> 
> Just tried second gen dual control XT paired with Shadow and dual-ring SLX front. Very nice. No clutter.
> 
> XX prices are ridiculous.


sounds like a great set-up, precise shifts + you've not been blatanty ripped off tail chasing the latest MTB gimmick/fad

...11 speed XTR dual control would be nice, i'd better start saving.

.................edit to remove ! - i must learn to emote better........


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

KevinK said:


> WOW!! That looks incredibly nice. Really nice!!! Congratulations!!!:thumbsup:


Thanks dude! :thumbsup: Works even better than it looks!


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

I really don't want this thread to die and I think SRAM should know that an XX gripshift would have me on 10 speed in no time.


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## a.m (Jun 15, 2009)

I am new to facebook, but what abaout makeing a facebook group, see how many who joines and then tell SRAM abaout it?


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

I love my Gripshifts. I've been using some 9.0SL models since 1999 and never had a problem with them. I think that might be why Sram doesn't push them, though... they last forever and never give you a reason to buy new ones. They make a lot more money selling replacement trigger shifters.

I'll personally never ride anything but grip shifters, period. That means my rear derailer money always goes to Sram, not Shimano, so at least they make money off me that way.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

f3rg said:


> I love my Gripshifts. I've been using some 9.0SL models since 1999 and never had a problem with them. I think that might be why Sram doesn't push them, though... they last forever and never give you a reason to buy new ones. They make a lot more money selling replacement trigger shifters.
> 
> I'll personally never ride anything but grip shifters, period. That means my rear derailer money always goes to Sram, not Shimano, so at least they make money off me that way.


Makes allot of sense. I sold my 1997 DBR to a friend, and he is still using the original gripshifts today, and they are still working great. That's 12 years and still going strong. My current bike has had the Grip shifts for 5 years. However, I am on my second X.0 derailleur!!!

Kevin


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## erik$ (May 16, 2006)

http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65567


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

> https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65567


erik$,

Thanks for the heads up








​


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

erik$ said:


> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65567





Colin on weightweenies.com said:


> And finnally for the one you've all been waiting for...
> Greg herbold told me in person that for the XX gripshifts they wanted to do them 'right' and make them sweet. And that they are being tested right now in Italy, I think is where he said. He said that they should be released sometime next year.


SWEEEEEEET!!!!!!!!! :thumbsup:

P.S.

I'm loving my X0 gripshifts that I recently migrated to from triggers about 3 weeks ago.... Hills that catch my buddies off guard are just no longer a problem for me and my gripshifts - you know the ones, where you come bombing down a downhill section with a blind corner that has a short steep climb waiting to slap you in the face...


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## A-Hol (Dec 31, 2005)

*Sweet*



erik$ said:


> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65567


If this is true, I'm really stoked! Want to convert to XX, but need gripshift.


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## 88 rex (Aug 2, 2007)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: 


YESSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

With grip shift, I'm spoiled that one twist dumps gears from low to high 3x faster than triggers. Nine speed has enjoyed the longest production run(10+ years) for any shifting group in cycling history...why change it now???

No XX for me...not at those Shimano Yumeya prices.


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

Anybody doing 1x10 on a 29er? 11-36 x 36t was good enough for JHK...


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## worthy_4242 (Mar 5, 2008)

i just got the xx drivetrain on my new 2010 s works carbon 29er and i really miss my old grip shifts, i hope they come out soon because i really like the feeling of them.


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## need4gforce (Sep 12, 2009)

Since this is the Hail Mary of XO twisters.........

Im building a bike for my girl but being a cheap ass and hassle free I am doing 1x9... What do you guys recommend using on the left grip and on the right grip for regular grips... I liked those ones pictured above... but I guess I would run a regular length one on the left? I end up buying 2 pairs of grips.


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## roaringboy (Aug 26, 2009)

Buy regular foam grips and cut the right one down.


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## barrows (Jul 6, 2004)

*XX twisters*

I hope that the new XX twisters will have a narrower profile, I really dislike how much bar space current twisters take up. I do not need the grip part of the shifter to be anywhere near as wide as the current XO-X9 options.


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## KevinK (Jul 19, 2005)

erik$ said:


> http://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=65567


Awesome news Erik$!!! Looks like my new ride will most likely have Sram XX drivetrain!!! I better start saving!!! :thumbsup:

Now I have to wait for two things next year, the XX gripshift and the Hope Race X2 brakes!!

Best regards,

Kevin


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Jake Pay said:


> Remember the 2004 simulated carbon XOs


look here :thumbsup:


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

eliflap said:


> look here :thumbsup:



eli, what am I lookin' at?
​


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

99-00 vintage 9.0 (might be SL) shifters.


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

BlownCivic said:


> 99-00 vintage 9.0 (might be SL) shifters.


 Yep, those are the 9.0SL shifters and their faux carbon weave. They look dumb, but I love mine. :thumbsup:


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Jake Pay said:


> eli, what am I lookin' at?
> ​


as Blown wrote, old 9.0 grips


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

eliflap said:


> as Blown wrote, old 9.0 grips




Those are sweet, I'd love to have a set








​


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i have "other religion"  lightweitght candies


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Sram Plamsa: for me still the best weighwise and performancewise.

I't can't be that hard to make them 10s compatibleIf i was a mechanic or had abilitys on a CNC machine or a turning lathe i would have already produced a 10s conversion for them. I'd say it should be able to shave the inside and replace with 10s internals.

I am really close to write Microshift a mail and ask them for a 10s gripshifter. If someone offers such a set they will sell thousands right away. I really can't understand those manufacturers. I also visited the Rohloff booth at Eurobike as by walking by i realized they had a cnc'd grip-shifter for their gear hub. When i was looking closer at their shifter they would approach me thinking i was interested in the Rohloff-Bull$hit...But when i told them that they should convert their grip-shifter into 10s and offer it as a regular 10s shifter they would look at each other. Man-they have a shifter on hand where they simply would need to change the cnc-program slightly and could make more money selling such shifters rather than their overweight hub...


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## cmv96 (Aug 19, 2004)

Another XO user here that would buy XX if it were available in gripshift


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

> to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
> 
> I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is.


Wow, you have not spent much time on gripshifters, have you? Because as someone who has used both a lot over the years and even decided to give the newer SRAM triggers a try, I could not disagree more. Armchair analyze it all you want, but for a lot of people, grips just work better. Awkward angles making you wreck? Please stop talking utter nonsense. I would MUCH prefer to shift in the rough with grips. Please don't talk about people not knowing how to use triggers when you obviously don't know much about using twisties. You are just repeating the drivel that you always here from people who never spent the time learning to use grips.

Sorry, but SRAM really crapped the bed on this one. I am willing to bet that they will eventually come around and offer 10 speed twisties.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

eliflap said:


> as Blown wrote, old 9.0 grips


Those were the deal! I've got a set of 7.0's (identical except for color) that have been in use since 2001. A few years after I picked up another set as backup for $20. Still have them in the original box. I never understood why they stopped making them that style, they seemed simpler, and I thought they had better action as you shift than the newer models. I also have an 8 sp 9.0 set.


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## ncj01 (Jan 13, 2004)

Gripshifts are for Girly-Men.


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## stefano_cercone (Sep 30, 2009)

ncj01 said:


> Gripshifts are for Girly-Men.


So that's why you use them


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

I have had the same set of XO gripshifters for 5 years now. They have been on 4 different bikes and no reside on my Niner Air9. I made the switch because my thumbs were getting cramped by the end of a race and ended up having to twist my wrist anyway ro make a shift. I agree with the OP. I wondered why they would release a racing weight weenie group without a revised lighter gripshift option when that is what so many of the racers have been using on the cup scene for years. They could easily get a bunch of weight out of them. I to am interested in XX with a gripshift option. I am running a 2x9 Middleburn 40/27 with XTR front XO rear with a 11-34. It works well but I would be down for one more gear in the back. And a whole bunch of weight savings. 

For Nino, sure you can do a 2x10 group right now for cheaper with some shimano bits and your cogset. That is not the issue. The real issue is the FRONT shifting with 2 rings. That is what XX addresses and is what most of SRAMS time went into. With only 2 rings up front your shifting needs to be dialed. There have been many posts in this forum about people trying a DUO up front and ditching it because they could never get it to work well with a TRIGGER shifter. The duo almost makes the Grip shift necessary with its ability to trim the front d. The XX group overcomes this because it was all designed to work together. Even still I want it with twisters please. I have done to much damage to my thumbs to ever go back to triggers. As for the dude who talked about less control with twisters, whatever works for you, some people like twisters and have adapted to the quirks. The shift while braking is an acquired skill that takes time to learn.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

55rpmasher said:


> The real issue is the FRONT shifting with 2 rings.There have been many posts in this forum about people trying a DUO up front and ditching it because they could never get it to work well with a TRIGGER shifter.


naaah-problem then is a bad chainline!
Most people just convert triple cranksets to double be removing either the inner or outer rings which leaves you with a bad chainline! Sure your derailleurs have a hard time when you try to run the extreme gears...BUT once you have your chainline corrected front shifts also with triggers aren't a problem anymore. So the problem is not the double setup but rather a bad choice in cranks to start with. Usually you have no way to adjust chainline with all the newer intergated designs. Therefore you have to get a different crank if you want to convert to double...we had this debate in another thread already.

BUT: Me too i'm a grip-shift user !


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## Guest (Dec 9, 2009)

I can agree with that to an extent. That is why I run a 68/108 Isis bb with my middleburns. Brings it back 2.5mm over the recommended 113. However the XX front shifting is way superior as that is the way it was engineered. Every review so far claims the greatest front shifting ever, under load. I would make the switch just for that alone. Although it looks like I saw a picture of someones Superfly with 9 speed stuff in the back with an XX crank in this thread or another can't remember. Could not tell if it had the XX front d as well. I thought about trying the same thing myself that way I could still run twisters and no 10 speed chain which I would most likely break lots anyway. Anyone doing this? And how is it working? Oh yeah I agree that you need the right crank to do it. Almost for sure need to go with ISIS or square taper as most of the external bb options have a crap chainline as a triple, forget about it as a duo, unless you go 38/26 and put them in the granny/ middle position and then you still have a wide q-factor. But that is a whole other debate and I have jacked this thread to much already.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

Lots, and I mean LOTS of people here (me included) have been using 10 speed chains (KMC-X10SL, etc...) for quite some time now. I personally have been using them for over 2 years now. The only thing I have ever broken is the missing link. That happened once way back in 2007. I have them on 2 bikes, and I like to grind big gears. Never had a problem at all. I also don't experience any higher wear rates than I did with 9 speed (or even 8 speed for that matter).


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## TunicaTrails (Jun 29, 2009)

Don't know, guess I'm looking for validation and bumping this question 

I have tried 1x9 before and found it didn't give enough on the top or bottom. But for us non-elites, what about a 1x10 of 34t x 11-36 on a 29er? I'm betting that'd cover the spectrum of all but the steepest ups and longest downhills.



TunicaTrails said:


> Anybody doing 1x10 on a 29er? 11-36 x 36t was good enough for JHK...


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

TunicaTrails said:


> Don't know, guess I'm looking for validation and bumping this question
> 
> I have tried 1x9 before and found it didn't give enough on the top or bottom. But for us non-elites, what about a 1x10 of 34t x 11-36 on a 29er? I'm betting that'd cover the spectrum of all but the steepest ups and longest downhills.


The difference in range between an 11-34 and 11-36 is really small. It only gives you about a half a gears worth of extra range. I think if you felt that 1x9 with 11-34 was limiting, then 11-36 is not likely to work much better, the increase is VERY small.


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## Destin (Jan 2, 2009)

Your all missing the point. This is the weight weenie forum....therefore you guys know that the lightest setup is single speed. And its more durable.YOU ONY NEED ONE GEAR!!!!!!


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## jeffreyjhsu (Jun 22, 2004)

Just cut an inch or and inch and a half off the inside of the stationary black grip. That will move them back out on your bars.

Oh! I'll never consider XX until they make a grip shift for it. Till then I'll happily run Shimano's 12-36 9 speed, even with the weight penalty.


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

re-bumping this thread.

Sram - if you read this. Please make a 10 speed grip shifter!


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## saviour machine (Oct 20, 2004)

I think sram has a master plan. The economy is going to tank again soon and that's when sram will unleash the xx sramonomics 101 super undercover recovery plan. XX sales will be so huge that the stock market will go up to 19,567,the banks will offer 45 and 60 year mortgage loans. 90% of american will own a home and unemployment will be at 0.88% and to top it all off by 2012 the world will go to a 20 hour work week so we all can ride our beloved xx grippys before the end of the world on dec 21or 22 ( I can't remember) 2012.:thumbsup:


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

You know, I would prefer to stick with 9 speed. I wish Sram would make a 9 speed version of the XX cassette. That is a work of art.


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## Green Giant (Dec 19, 2003)

*sram... are you listening?*



DavidR1 said:


> You know, I would prefer to stick with 9 speed. I wish Sram would make a 9 speed version of the XX cassette. That is a work of art.


Ok with that also.

Give me a high end relatively light weight cassette with a 36 tooth cog in a 9 speed, or make some 10 speed grip shifters.

Sram - make this happen.


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## COLINx86 (Apr 8, 2009)

If you guys read this thread, you'd know that sram is working on XX gripshifts! I talked to Greg Herbold, and he told me in person they are coming, and currently being tested.


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## xcbarny (Jun 10, 2009)

DavidR1 said:


> You know, I would prefer to stick with 9 speed. I wish Sram would make a 9 speed version of the XX cassette. That is a work of art.


Your wish is granted 

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram-announce-new-xg999-cassette


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

AND... they have released a 9 speed version of the XX cassette:

***Edit*** Damn you barny! 










https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=589417


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## DavidR1 (Jul 7, 2008)

xcbarny said:


> Your wish is granted
> 
> http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram-announce-new-xg999-cassette


I had heard this might happen. Glad to see it will be soon:thumbsup:

Now, I wonder what the street price for these is going to be?


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## Dex11 (May 4, 2005)

Nice....those bar-ends are even better !


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

If you get a finger on those during a fall... Not very smart design.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

i've got a good 2x9 setup currently, but this is SWEEEEET news to FINALLY have the XX twist grips becoming reality!!! :thumbsup:

for an XC trail bike, I will never go back to triggers, but with 10speed taking hold, I feared twist grips were going to become a relic with people hoarding them for 9 speed... now there is 10 speed hope!!


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i recieved my x0 twisters this morning. i got a set of blue esi grips too...
...i tore off the rubber and slid on the esi which was only a 5g loss... 
whats the weight of the shifter cables?
(all weights with cables) Front/Rear

W/ rubber.....................101g/104g
W/O............................89g/92g
W/ ESI........................96g/99g
weight lost...................7g/6g
the total weight i saved was only 13g.. 
pictures!

































my triggers weighed 252g so i lost 66g total by converting to the twisters. making my bike now 23lbs 10oz


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

GreenGiant, i love the title under your username "11 is one louder then 10" i have yet to meet someone who has seen that movie.


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## kapusta (Jan 17, 2004)

facelessfools said:


> i have yet to meet someone who has seen that movie.


Really I thought it was a cult classic.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

culturesponge said:


> if XX gripshifters existed i would be so deliriously happy i would seriously consider purchasing an XX drivetrain (when the prices come down that is)
> 
> especially:
> if XX gripshifters were lighter than XO or Attack (sub 150g)
> ...


Yes! Why isn't this obvious to SRAM, their gripshifters need to be narrower and have a smaller diameter grip option! The best gripshifters I ever had were the 8 speed X-Rays. Very narrow and small diameter. They blend right in with the grip, and you could run your grip longer.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

facelessfools said:


> i recieved my x0 twisters this morning. i got a set of blue esi grips too...
> ...i tore off the rubber and slid on the esi which was only a 5g loss...
> whats the weight of the shifter cables?
> (all weights with cables) Front/Rear
> ...


Very clever! gripshift replacement grips are hard (almost impossible) to find, and I've been wishing I could put something thinner on my X9's. 
The ESI's don't move around at all? 
I think I would use the black ones. The color draws a lot of attention to them, and it has a bit of a Jethro Bodean home made look to it.


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

I'm using ESI's with my X0 gripshifts as well (didn't change the gripshift grip though). I run the 'chunkys'... the 'race' are TOO thin...

and they don't move around AT ALL... i used windex to install, otherwise impossible (on my FSA bars). Cushiony, but not spongy.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

MI_canuck said:


> I'm using ESI's with my X0 gripshifts as well (didn't change the gripshift grip though). I run the 'chunkys'... the 'race' are TOO thin...
> 
> and they don't move around AT ALL... i used windex to install, otherwise impossible (on my FSA bars). Cushiony, but not spongy.


I was wondering how the ESI's worked on the grip shifter itself. I think the normal rubber grips have grooves on the underside to keep them in place, so with the ESI's they would conform to the ridges on the plastic I guess.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

smilinsteve said:


> I was wondering how the ESI's worked on the grip shifter itself. I think the normal rubber grips have grooves on the underside to keep them in place, so with the ESI's they would conform to the ridges on the plastic I guess.


the X0 gripsifters has the rubber i believe glued on. i just used an exacto to remove the grip and cleaned off the plastic surface with it too. then i attached the shifter to the end of my handle bar then slid it on with a screw driver. 
The ESI grip is solid. its tight to fit around and it doesnt move at all.


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

facelessfools said:


> the X0 gripsifters has the rubber i believe glued on. i just used an exacto to remove the grip and cleaned off the plastic surface with it too. then i attached the shifter to the end of my handle bar then slid it on with a screw driver.
> The ESI grip is solid. its tight to fit around and it doesnt move at all.


I'd like to try it, but thought I could return to the regular grip if I don't like it. Sorry to hear they have to be cut off.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i was a little diapointed it isnt "removable"

although you can order the grip assembley can by purchased for about $13 a side

a quick google shopping search:
http://www.treefortbikes.com/product/333222353579/444/SRAM-XO-Left-Grip-Assembly.html


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

I've really enjoyed watching you build up your ride until this grip thing...















I'll take a slight comfy gram penalty over fugly







any day.....








Of course it's simply opinion







​


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

Jake Pay said:


> I've really enjoyed watching you build up your ride until this grip thing
> I'll take a slight comfy gram penalty over fugly any day.....
> 
> Of course it's simply opinion​


I must admit there is some truth in what you say. I think black with black would look better. Part of the problem with the ESI's is that it is hard to cut them without the edge looking ragged. The blue and the white just makes it more noticeable. I wonder if there are other (regular rubber) grips that could be stretched on to the shifter?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i had my white ESI's first installed by the owner and he used a pipe cutter to trim them. 
im still up in the air on them.. dont know if i like it or not yet.


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## Jake Pay (Dec 27, 2006)

facelessfools said:


> i had my white ESI's first installed by the owner and he used a pipe cutter to trim them.
> im still up in the air on them.. dont know if i like it or not yet.


Did you try the XO's before they went under the knife?

Personally I've always felt comfortable with the grip...​


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

facelessfools said:


> weight lost...................7g/6g


nice one :thumbsup:

mrs culturesponge found that the XO grips were too wide for her dainty hands - when her Amy grips wear out i'll bung on some old cut-down black ESI chunky's

ps, thought this thread was about SRAM XX (10 speed) Gripshifters aka twist shifters ...any news yet???


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

Jake Pay said:


> Did you try the XO's before they went under the knife?
> 
> Personally I've always felt comfortable with the grip...​


nope, just went for it. and i like them. looking at the whole bike i realize i like the look of the blue even though its rough around the edges.



culturesponge said:


> nice one :thumbsup:
> 
> mrs culturesponge found that the XO grips were too wide for her dainty hands - when her Amy grips wear out i'll bung on some old cut-down black ESI chunky's


it didn't lose as much weight as i would like but hey i lost some more then if i didn't! The racers edge that on there is diffidently wider then the racers edge on the bar. Using chunky's as the regular grip and racers edge may even the size gap.


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

had my first ride on them that was around 35 miles. they were set to wide so i used the remaining blue ESI to readjust them to a narrower profile.
i always hold my bars at the very end so i had to keep releasing the grips and moving in to shift so hopefully this will feel better tomorrow.


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## awetdog (May 8, 2009)

for the original Q, +1 grip shift


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## Broseph (Nov 9, 2006)

so are these just modified XO grip shifters or actually some super-secret XX grip shift?


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

nothing but x0's


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

You could have destroyed x7s weighing the same as x0s


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

xcatax said:


> You could have destroyed x7s weighing the same as x0s


They wouldn't say XO on them. That's what you pay for!


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## customfab (Jun 8, 2008)

barrows said:


> to restrain myself here, but I can no longer sit this discussion out. I have used twist shifters, and I cannot find any reason to prefer them over a well designed trigger setup. Trigger shifters work so much better than twisters-it is much easier to shift gears with triggers while braking (such as is necessary for downshifting into a corner to facilitate accelerating out) especially in rough conditions when keeping a good grip on the bar is necessary. Additionally, using a twist shifter puts the wrist in an awkward position, that can lead to a loss of control, or even lead to an injury in rough conditions.
> I can only surmise that those who prefer twisters have never lived with a well designed trigger, like current XTR, for long enough to learn how superior it is. XTR triggers can upshift two cogs in one quick push of the thumb, and downshift three cogs in another push; at the same time one can be perfectly controlling the brake with the forefinger, and all this can be done while maintaining a firm grip on the bars between the palm and remaining three fingers.
> Yes, with twisters one can dump the entire cassette at once, but when is this necessary? A shift of this range is better accomplished on the front derailleur. There is no valid reason to prefer twisters over well designed triggers, and SRAM has acknowledged that fact by not offering XX twisters.
> As for the price, come on, of course it is expensive. XX offers lighter weight and better performance than other groups, with better gearing options, of course it is going to cost more. The star of this group is the cassette, it is expensive, but it is also made of steel (with the exception of the individually replaceable large cog) so it should last considerably longer than comparable cassettes made of titanium. With frequent chain replacement I would expect XX cassettes to last at least a couple of seasons under heavy use.


the problem sram has is that their trigger shifter falls apart when it sees a shimano shifter. not literally but their triggers just flat out suck imho, the lever effort is heavy even with fresh cables and they feel clunky, don't even get me started on that wacky release lever


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

smilinsteve said:


> They wouldn't say XO on them. That's what you pay for!


 yeah no doubt


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## bmxadian (Apr 17, 2010)

I certainly can't give up my GS, not for a 20 spd cass!!!, however, I used to run the shimano compatable sachs/sram twist with an xtr rapid rise, now that was the best. ( talk about a thin GS profile!)
I have always said that true dream-world shifting would be a nice GS/1:1/low normal set up, and while you're at it, I'll take the 10 spds. Hell, lets have a 8-28t cass, then the front rings start getting to a decent size!


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

MI_canuck said:


> WTF is this dude? sorry but your post seemed to imply that you had actual XX gripshifts... but looking at your vid, clearly the shift indicator only goes up to 9 (0:05-0:08)... so this is just a modded X0 RH shifter...
> 
> you should change the title of the post to something like 'modded X0 gripshift working with XX'....


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## LCW (May 5, 2008)

thought he was OP.... my bad... added EDIT to my thread... i lack reading skills obviously...


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## crossmax (Oct 10, 2005)

My vote; no GripShift 10speed, no XX for me! GS is the best for racing. IMO of course.


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## wickedwheels (Jul 20, 2006)

Just heard from our SRAM sales rep... Gripshift for 10spd is definitely coming!!!


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

wickedwheels said:


> Just heard from our SRAM sales rep... Gripshift for 10spd is definitely coming!!!


Interesting, I had a Sram rep in today and he said he cant say for sure, but last he heard they were being developed for possibly XX only.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Just order the SRAM TT bar end shifters and some paul's thumbies mounts people !!!


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## AZ-X (Feb 16, 2004)

DeeEight said:


> Just order the SRAM TT bar end shifters and some paul's thumbies mounts people !!!


Ahh... no.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

I should get SRAM compatible 10s grip-shifters soon. This time the dents will be in metal and should provide precise action. I'll keep you guys updated once i get the first samples.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> Just order the SRAM TT bar end shifters and some paul's thumbies mounts people !!!


For some reason I think the R2C shifters would be even weirder on a mountain bike than on the TT bikes they are made for.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

amillmtb said:


> For some reason I think the R2C shifters would be even weirder on a mountain bike than on the TT bikes they are made for.


Is that the version with the self-centering spring loaded ratchet action? Depending on how they're oriented as "neutral" on the thumbies adapters that could be quite an advantage I'd think. A quick tap in either direction to change gears.


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

DeeEight said:


> Is that the version with the self-centering spring loaded ratchet action? Depending on how they're oriented as "neutral" on the thumbies adapters that could be quite an advantage I'd think. A quick tap in either direction to change gears.


Yep, Return 2 Center. I could see it being an advantage too, but I guess I'm just not a thumbie guy.


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

nino said:


> I should get SRAM compatible 10s grip-shifters soon. This time the dents will be in metal and should provide precise action. I'll keep you guys updated once i get the first samples.


nino, there will be also metal dents update for us with the first plastic units?

thanks


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## fastback67 (Apr 6, 2010)

what should be the gains of metal dents? 
seriously: the complete mechanic of these dilettantish shifter is without any precision. the manufacturer has to redesign it completely new, all tolerances are to wide, all fittings are without accuracy. next is, that there seems to be no control of the cooling phase of the plastic and also no control of the injection molding phase (see at flow marks). only one point why it is impossible to produce constant precise. metal dents in this shifter is entirely useless from my point of view.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

fastback67 said:


> what should be the gains of metal dents?


easy - all that you complain about


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## legsrburnin (Mar 25, 2007)

Pssst. I have Sram 10 sp Grip Shift on my bike!


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## fastback67 (Apr 6, 2010)

nino said:


> easy - all that you complain about


ha ha ha, hope you do not believe that, what is that for an unreliable manufacturer. 
that is absolutely impossible only by change the dents. for the case the dents gets an acuracy index, then the freehand fitting of the twisting part is the next responsible for sketchy shift performance. i think these shifters are designed from a layman with non technical background. but we will see.

legsrburnin
 originals?


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

please no more bad quality chinese parts!


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## legsrburnin (Mar 25, 2007)

fastback67 said:


> legsrburnin
> originals?


No they're from BCB, but they are grip shifters from Sram 

















First ride today was a great experience with them!


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## 1415chris (Mar 21, 2009)

> Pssst. I have Sram 10 sp Grip Shift on my bike!


Sram 10sp, X0 and 9sp cassette, .....interesting?


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## mmmaaaiiikkk (Aug 10, 2009)

1415chris said:


> Sram 10sp, X0 and 9sp cassette, .....interesting?


 it's a ten speed cassette!


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

legsrburnin said:


> Pssst. I have Sram 10 sp Grip Shift on my bike!


 whats the cost of BCB sram tuning ?
and you should say theres no weight improvements


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

DeeEight, can you please post pictures of your TT shifters? That's pretty interesting and I can see the advantage of having the Return to Center feature on it. What's the weight of your shifters plus the adaptors? Thanks.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

They're not mine, I run Paul's Thumbies mounts with DuraAce shifters, but Paul's offers their mounts in SRAM and Campy compatible versions too. So if you wanted you could have a campy drivetrain as 2 or 3x11, or SRAM as 2/3x10. SRAM offers their bar-end shifters in several versions but only 10 speed varieties last I checked. but one model self-centers to an position that points into the wind to minimize drag. Presumably the center-point is adjustable for different models of aero bars (some bend upwards at the end more than others) though.










The one on the left would be the SRAM setup in the pic, on the right is the Shimano.

I have the shimano thumbies setup on one bike with an 8speed cassette, two with nines, and one with ten.


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## pernfilman (May 24, 2007)

legsrburnin said:


> No they're from BCB, but they are grip shifters from Sram
> 
> 
> 
> ...


let us know what you think about them once you get a few more rides.

How long did it take for you get the shifters and did you send yours in before or just buy them direct from them?


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

nino, I repeat you the question:
there will be also metal dents update for us with the first plastic units?

thanks


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

STS said:


> nino, I repeat you the question:
> there will be also metal dents update for us with the first plastic units?
> 
> thanks


No

And i just got the info that the new shifters still need some time. I hoped to have them in hands by now but it might take another 2-4 weeks.


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

blackcatbikes no longer tunes grip shifters, heres an email i got from them a few days ago, when i asked if i could buy some:

Hi Jordan,

unfortunatelly we don't produce them anymore... They were taken too long time for us and we are now involved in other projects.

On the other hand, I don't think you will need to wait too long untill Sram launches their new GS for 10speeds... Have a search in bikerumor.com

Best regards,

Gerard.


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

*SRAM 10 speed Twist Shifters?*

Gerard is a top bloke, its well worth keeping tabs on the BCB website to see what he's been up to lately : http://www.blackcatbonebikes.com/blackcatbonebikes/Productos/Productos.html

................................

http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/06/10...2-and-3-ten-speed-twisters-and-new-dh-cranks/

SRAM Press Camp Rumors #2 and #3 - Ten Speed Twisters and new DH Cranks
posted by Tyler (Editor) - June 10, 2010 - 10am EDT

"Ever since SRAM came out with trigger shifters, it seems they've been slowly putting more emphasis on them with OEM placements and now with the 10-speed systems. I asked why the new 2×10 groups went solely with trigger options, and here was the response:

"You've gotta start somewhere," says Chris Hilton, SRAM product manager. "Triggers are an extremely precise system, they integrate really nicely with the brakes, particularly with our Matchmaker set up, and the ergonomics and adjustability are really good."

Of course, there are those of us that long for top-level twisters to make a comeback, and there are top pros like Julien Absalon (pictured, older photo when he was still running twisters) that, as Hilton put it, have "requested, not demanded" them. So, are they coming? So far, comments around the press camp indicate so, ranging from:

"They're aren't any out in the wild. Well, not any you're going to see."

"It's something that's in the works."

&#8230;and similar such things. No timeline so far, but we haven't had the first real tech session yet either."

:thumbsup:


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

i am using blackcatbones X.0 tuned x 10 speeds since feb 2010

nice work !!

now i have a another X.0 GS ready , tuned x 10 here in Italy , ready for my next bike


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## culturesponge (Aug 15, 2007)

eliflap said:


> i have a another X.0 GS ready , tuned x 10 here in Italy , ready for my next bike


that's cool! - you are always first with the latest & greatest!

do you have any more info, do they have a website?
... are they taking orders for converted SRAM XO twist shifters?

best
.


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

For now, I would prefer to use X0 10 speed tuned twist shifters to go with my X0 derailleurs (I have 3 of them). When the time comes for a new RD, I will most likely go with the XX, and at that time will want to XX twist shifters to go with them.

I'm also interested in more information about your new Italian source for these modded shifters.


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

has anyone got a BCB modded gripshift for sale?

thanks


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

here mine , modified here in Italy ... however i must wait until september for my new frame :madman: 

to test it


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

who modified, do they do orders?

thanks


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## jordanrosenbach3 (Jan 6, 2007)

http://www.blackcatbonebikes.com/bl...adas/2009/12/16_Gripshift_10_velocidades.html

like I said, I'm pretty sure they don't make it anymore


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Dang that's heavy. I'll stick to thumbshifters. 125 grams for a pair beats 99.7 for one.


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## ADDam (Jun 7, 2008)

I switched from 970 Triggers to X0. I would love to switch to XX, but not until GS comes out. If I'm forced to go back to triggers, it will be with Shimano.


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## morrisgarages (Jan 25, 2009)

I know it's against forum rules but I hope they make an exemption for this one. Just saw these and looks very interesting if BCB aren't making them anymore.
http://cgi.ebay.de/Sram-XX-10-Fach-...hrradteile&hash=item1e5ce52946#ht_5237wt_1137

Sorry, just noticed that this is what fantic26 is offering. The mods can delete this if they want to.


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

This is complety worthless , theres no weight loss BCB or fantic26 .


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

xcatax said:


> This is complety worthless , theres no weight loss BCB or fantic26 .


Why worthless?? XO twisters performs great! way better than any other plastic shifters like microshift and sec. therefore they weight more!

PS. Soon i'll get mine tuned XO GS from fantic26


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

ohadamirov said:


> Why worthless?? XO twisters performs great! way better than any other plastic shifters like microshift and sec. therefore they weight more!
> 
> PS. Soon i'll get mine tuned XO GS from fantic26


 Theres not weight improvement over originals , this is just cheap publicity .


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## ohadamirov (Jun 26, 2008)

xcatax said:


> Theres not weight improvement over originals , this is just cheap publicity .


This is not about improve the weight! is about to make them work with 0.8 ratio of the XX rear deraiileur! those tuned gs weight +/- the same as the XX triggers and gives you two important things! 1- the grip shift. 2- the mirco adjust on the front derailleur! there is no other alternatives!


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

ohadamirov said:


> This is not about improve the weight! is about to make them work with 0.8 ratio of the XX rear deraiileur! those tuned gs weight +/- the same as the XX triggers and gives you two important things! 1- the grip shift. 2- the mirco adjust on the front derailleur! there is no other alternatives!


Oh sorry thought this forum is about it :skep: 
I run 1x9 and still waiting for the sec 9v sram comp , i could go thumbie but dont like , atleast this thumbie improves x0s weight .


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## danridesbikes (Sep 10, 2009)

any news on the old X0 model?

i would like to run a setup like, if not available i will buy a sram red rear mech and buy your product fron ebay.de


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## single speed kid (Jun 7, 2006)

Curious, the topic of 1X9 came up earlier in this thread, and I was wondering how practical this sort of setup would be for the average guy? In the most practical sense, what are the pros and what are the cons?

I am not 'joe technical' so your feedback provided is always appreciated!


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

single speed kid said:


> Curious, the topic of 1X9 came up earlier in this thread, and I was wondering how practical this sort of setup would be for the average guy? In the most practical sense, what are the pros and what are the cons?
> 
> I am not 'joe technical' so your feedback provided is always appreciated!


1x9 pros? Well, since you are a single speed kid, 1x9 is much more practical for an average guy. About 9 times more practical!


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## kark (Mar 11, 2007)

The practicality, or usability will depend on your terrain and how strong you are.
I tried 1x8 a few years back and suffered badly in a race, but that was a race and my 8spd was 11-30. (can't remember the front ring, but probably 32 or 34).

A 9 spd cassette can offer a fairly large spread, so with appropriate ring up front it may be completely fine, and when my 8spd cassettes are pooched I'm going to try the 1x9 thing.

Other pros though aren't (imho) of huge significance. You get to ditch a front derailleur, shifter and cables but still need a good chain guide. 
If you suffered chain suck that would be a benefit, but otherwise, I've never had much issue with front shifting. Good rings and gripshift makes for an extremely tolerant front shifting arrangment so while I'm going to try 1x9, it's not because of any perceived equipment benefit. I just think maybe 9 gears might be all I need for the riding I do.


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

kark said:


> You get to ditch a front derailleur, shifter and cables but still need a good chain guide.


 My chain guide weight 6g , made of ritchey carbon handlebar 

















2 weeks and no problems but i will try tune rohloff and mrp chain guides .


----------



## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

How is it possible to run such a setup without marks from the chain on the chainstay (also on your other bikes)? Please tell me your secret.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

checky said:


> How is it possible to run such a setup without marks from the chain on the chainstay (also on your other bikes)? Please tell me your secret.


he doesn't actually ride his bike. shh It's a secret.


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

checky said:


> How is it possible to run such a setup without marks from the chain on the chainstay (also on your other bikes)? Please tell me your secret.


 I love chains and chains love me :thumbsup: .
Im sorry sergio we are full


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## checky (Jan 13, 2006)

sergio_pt said:


> he doesn't actually ride his bike. shh It's a secret.


Think so too. That fits to some other experiences he wrote about.


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## xcatax (Mar 26, 2009)

checky said:


> Think so too. That fits to some other experiences he wrote about.


Im happy you ask for me  
My old Orbea alma 2008 , see midleburn rs8 cranks with look pedals ?










still runing here :thumbsup:










My brother and me rides nosaint 
Salu2
Juan


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Looks like SRAM is loosing business. good job man


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## f3rg (Aug 29, 2007)

single speed kid said:


> Curious, the topic of 1X9 came up earlier in this thread, and I was wondering how practical this sort of setup would be for the average guy? In the most practical sense, what are the pros and what are the cons?
> 
> I am not 'joe technical' so your feedback provided is always appreciated!


It totally depends on where you ride. Personally, the trails I ride on are hilly, but nothing too ridiculous. If I was in a mountainous area, I'd probably ride 2x9, with my middle and granny gears. I rarely have a need for a large chainring on my MTB, so I replaced it with a bashguard.

If you have enough gearing to climb your steepest hills, I'd say ride 1x9. It saves weight through elimination of parts--FD, front shifter, 2 chainrings, cable and housing--and gets rid of complexity. Also, by ditching the large ring and using a bashguard, you have more log clearance, and you never need to worry about the chainring teeth coming in contact with your calves.


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## fab4 (Apr 28, 2007)

*10sp Griftshift*

If anybody from SRAM is reading this. WE WANT 10SP GRIFTSHIFT PLEASE!!!:thumbsup:


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## NVIbex (Sep 18, 2006)

Please post your request in the SRAM board. They do read that BOARD








The subject is on going @ *https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=652581*


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## amillmtb (Jun 24, 2005)

I'd go 10 if grips were made available.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

xcatax said:


> My chain guide weight 6g , made of ritchey carbon handlebar
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How is the 'stick' chainguide working out? I need to install something on my next build.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

When do you have time to build with all the moderating ?


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

a new HD Video ModII 10 speed + xtr rd-m980 2011


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## PeterGer (Feb 18, 2010)

Your first post is spam and only for your private business? :nono:
I see, you expand your private business all over the world.


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

I have only found a way to solve a problem as has employed many bikers around the earth! I like this part and give it away more cost effective ...  Dont be worry:thumbsup:


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## PeterGer (Feb 18, 2010)

At first read.
Then think!  
And then write.
OK?
The business you make is unlaw. :nono: 
That´s fact.
You make spam. That´s also fact.
And that there are problems with the gear indicator that´s also fact. :eekster:


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

ist your opinion !
you can also availible in a tuning shop with bill and guarantie ! but you have to pay the tax and provison !
The indicator ? important ? no ! other shifters has no one or only high and low ! 
The World team bikers are testing these mods and they are happy about that someone had make this job ! that is enough ! Sec/recon did a bad faulty shift job now it´s time for made in germany ;-)

found it in a thread :Because Nino singled him out by name for bashing. PeterGer is ANOTHER recon dealer,.... 


ah !! That´s is the reason ..loosing buisness ! Ok i understand .... i´m be quit ;-) Sorry


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## PeterGer (Feb 18, 2010)

Blablablablablablablablablablablablabla :rant: 

:headphones:


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

http://www.p-o-s.eu/

its your shop ? or isen´t it ?


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## PeterGer (Feb 18, 2010)

OK, I see. You not understand and you are a newbie.
Please read here: Forum rules
I think that helps you.


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

OK i see

The admin will deleate my faulty posts when this are bad information for the useres ! 

THX


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## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

PeterGer said:


> At first read.
> Then think!
> And then write.
> OK?
> ...


What law is being broken? I don't think there is any law against marketing the shifters the way he is. 
And I don't care if he is marketing it. 
What don't you like, the fact that he is helping people, or making money? 
Both are ok with me. But forum guidelines do have some restrictions on peddling merchandise. I'm not clear what the rules are but that's a problem for moderators, not you or me.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Check the sticky post from rensho on advertising, including the followup post in the thread from jake pay which references to the Nino is banned announcement thread.


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Hey guys, yes, these are spam posts. Looks like the poster gets it and has modified most of his posts. I'm OK with it for now, and won't delete all the posts surrounding this.


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

THX admin ! 

Actually Sabine Spitz is testing the xx mod ;-)


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## Grusveidaddy (Oct 22, 2010)

*Modified XO twist shifters*

Hi,

I'm interested in bying a set of those shifters you modify.
10 speed for XX rear derailleur.
How to proceed?

Best


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

send a mail to [email protected] for more informations


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I didn't read all the posts here. Stopped when I got to the I hate Grip Shift post so I'msure there are haters but I think Grip Shift is the only way to shift and like others I will stick with 9 speed as long as 10 speed means no Grip Shift.

I was just on the DownHill/Freeride forum where I was talking up GS yesterday. 

This is my first time on this forum and noticed all the talk of 10 speed GS and minutes ago went to the Sram site to give them a link so they could get a clue as to what lengths people are going to to avoid triggers. But I didn't see an email contact with a quick look around. Then I saw this thread.

Sram...I think you'd make your money back on the R&D and tool up if you did 10 speed GS. Shoot I'd probably even spring for your over priced cassette to go with it


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Is the re-engineering really anything more than the right shifter? The left would probably work as. I am even ok with a trigger on the left side as it is only "on/off" really. I'd actually like it like a pop-lock with the swing under the bar instead of over. 

The other thing I'd do if I was Sram was make 1 casing and just incorporate the model on the grip part, XX/XO/X9. I think a couple different grip shapes to chose from would be good.

G


----------



## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

Only the reight is mod ! 
So you can also use a normal trigger for the left side !
Regards


----------



## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Another thing that would be nice is if you could just buy a right shifter. I'm moving to only one chain ring on all my current builds and have extra front shifters in a box. Although I have thought of trying to convert a front gripshift to a bar mount Talas shifter for my fork. Not sure if it has enough throw however.

Sram likely wouldn't do that however since they have you as it is.

Is there any truth to discontinuing XO grip shift? If so better stock up.


----------



## modifier (May 11, 2007)

I just called Sram and was told that they have no plans to discontinue Gripshift. But you never know.

They also said there has been in house talk of 10 speed GS but so far they are holding out. The problem has something to do with integration with there brake levers but I didn't inquire further on that and don't really understand how that could be an issue. Maybe the levers are too short or something and GS is too long??

More requests would help. Particularly from manufacturers she said.

So write your congressman.


----------



## smilinsteve (Jul 21, 2009)

modifier said:


> I just called Sram and was told that they have no plans to discontinue Gripshift. But you never know.
> 
> They also said there has been in house talk of 10 speed GS but so far they are holding out. The problem has something to do with integration with there brake levers but I didn't inquire further on that and don't really understand how that could be an issue. Maybe the levers are too short or something and GS is too long??
> 
> ...


I think all the grip shifters should be made shorter. If that's the end result of this, I'll be happy.


----------



## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

only the reight is also possible !


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## jazclrint (Oct 22, 2005)

I just built an X9 2X10 for a customer, and I did not care for the X9 shifters. I loved the 2X10, but I think I would have been happier with ShimaNo shifters, and I hate ShimaNo. However, after a look at the XX shifters, I think the ergos are much different, and AM/DH would like the X9 shifters, and I might be happier with XX shifters. So why not make GS for X0 and below? It seems they would be cheaper to make lighter, and if you make just one model, productions costs might be reduced, unless each RD has a different pull ratio.


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## gregoryb02 (Nov 4, 2006)

*SRAM Gripshift XX? NOT!*



ron4130 said:


> How would you feel if Sram launched XX Gripshifter?
> Would you like it?
> Would you not?
> 
> Let me know what you think about the idea.


Sorry SRAM... if you cannot take care of someone like me, who has bought 5 different pairs of gripshifts for 4 different bikes in the last 7 years (Blur, Yeti, Mojo, Trek), then I will not be running SRAM on next years bike (either a new Mojo or Pivot). Your triggers shift is not nearly as good as Shimano, so you lose me and my SRAM gripshift buddies.

SRAM... What's wrong with you??


----------



## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

gregoryb02 said:


> Sorry SRAM... if you cannot take care of someone like me, who has bought 5 different pairs of gripshifts for 4 different bikes in the last 7 years (Blur, Yeti, Mojo, Trek), then I will not be running SRAM on next years bike (either a new Mojo or Pivot). Your triggers shift is not nearly as good as Shimano, so you lose me and my SRAM gripshift buddies.
> 
> SRAM... What's wrong with you??


go to the sram bored.. they actually read that one.


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## gregoryb02 (Nov 4, 2006)

*SRAM... losing long time customers!*

COOL! I am dead serious... I'll drop SRAM like a hot potato for a Shimano Trigger IF SRAM cannot provide me with a gripshift. I am a SRAM fan BECAUSE of gripshift, but their triggers take a big back seat to Shimano.

You don't have to read between the lines here SRAM.. no gripshift, no future business from me. I am personally responsible for getting three of my riding buddies to convert to gripshift, but they won't be hanging with you on their next purchase if you don't include the grip in your XX lineup!


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

lol


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## eliflap (Dec 13, 2007)

Sram are not loosing costumers

here in Italy lots of us are using X.0 modified fro XX from fantic26 ...

so they are selling lots of X.0 gripshifters again

..so ..stop crying like women ! and go with tuned ones ...

still wait for factory ones ???? ok , heaven can wait, me not....


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## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

eliflap said:


> Sram are not loosing costumers
> 
> here in Italy lots of us are using X.0 modified fro XX from fantic26 ...
> 
> ...


agreed. hopefully the ones i ordered work great. only ordered one set though, so i will only have them on my race bike (not on training bike)


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## BDT (Jul 29, 2009)

G-Live said:


> Is the re-engineering really anything more than the right shifter? The left would probably work as. I am even ok with a trigger on the left side as it is only "on/off" really. I'd actually like it like a pop-lock with the swing under the bar instead of over.
> 
> The other thing I'd do if I was Sram was make 1 casing and just incorporate the model on the grip part, XX/XO/X9. I think a couple different grip shapes to chose from would be good.
> 
> G


Currently running a 2x10 with a XO twist shift on the left set-up 2 speed and a X9 trigger 10speed on the right.

Just waiting on Sram to make 10 speed twist. I would buy them the 1st day available.


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## ppower (Jun 8, 2007)

Why do you prefer the SRAM X.0 grip shifters modified for XX 10 speeds instead of the Recon grip shifters? Is it a matter of weight or reliability?


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## fantic26 (Apr 13, 2010)

Recon is liter some g

Sram xx mod

The Funktion is better

No chaine jumping 

The spring force is higher so not so early faulty shifts in offroad area

The grips has more comfort lower shore hardness 

Better optic more quallity

Regards


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## ppower (Jun 8, 2007)

fantic26 said:


> Recon is liter some g
> Sram xx mod
> The Funktion is better
> No chaine jumping
> ...


Your advice is to opt in for the X.0 modified. I will buy the Sven's modified.


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## DukeNeverwinter (May 6, 2006)

Anybody modifying these stateside yet?


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## STS (Jun 24, 2004)

ppower said:


> Why do you prefer the SRAM X.0 grip shifters modified for XX 10 speeds instead of the Recon grip shifters? Is it a matter of weight or reliability?


I have used both
Recon is half the weight of the X0, but is unusable, lot of ghost shifts, and chain and parts are always in danger
X0 modified with my new X9 2011 RD works perfectly!


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## juankast26 (Apr 27, 2011)

DeeEight said:


> Dang that's heavy. I'll stick to thumbshifters. 125 grams for a pair beats 99.7 for one.


 are you on crack , may you please referd med to a PAIR of shifters that may weight less than 99g a piece... please do. srammies XX's are 91.5 a piece.... but where can you find the SET for 125G


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

juankast26 said:


> are you on crack , may you please referd med to a PAIR of shifters that may weight less than 99g a piece... please do. srammies XX's are 91.5 a piece.... but where can you find the SET for 125G


Ummmm, same as any of the rest of us do it... I said THUMBSHIFTERS... take DuraAce Bar-end shifters, fit to paul's thumbies mounts and presto, 125g shifter set available depending on which series bar-end shifter you use, 8 to 10 speed indexed rear end. The weight is I gave was for my tuned (with Ti and Al hardware) set without cables. With cables and stock steel hardware that comes with the pauls mounts, a pair I just put on a scale was 158g and that's still lighter than XX shifters.

Of course if bulletproof reliability and being compatible with all non dyna-sys rear shimano derailleurs isn't good enough for you, then you're too much of a pansy for my time.

These are a set of mine on one of my bikes, its a 2x9 setup on the bike with a titanium 11-32 cassette.


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## ppower (Jun 8, 2007)

The time is ripe.

This morning I found a photo on a Facebook post and I posted it on my own blog:

SRAM XX rotanti a quando? - Il Blog di Marco Tenuti


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## facelessfools (Aug 30, 2008)

i like the new low profile view of it. but still not a fan of the rubber grip.


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

I got mine from Sven, now waiting for parts to finish my 29er build.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

a2gtinut said:


> I got mine from Sven, now waiting for parts to finish my 29er build.


You have a set? Pics?


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

it is just X0 with new guts. I delivered my X0 right shifter only and few days later he shipped it US.


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## dogdaysunrise (May 15, 2011)

A close up pic, I just wonder if the housing is plastic or actual Carbon Fiber?


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

so what about weights prices and selling places?


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## Logover (Jul 30, 2008)

NicE!!! I want a set!


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## scalpel226 (Jul 11, 2006)

When will the new X.X Twisters available?? Really wanna get a set!!!


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## ppower (Jun 8, 2007)

sergio_pt said:


> so what about weights prices and selling places?


No more information about that. I'm looking forward to getting a set before April.


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## ppower (Jun 8, 2007)

dogdaysunrise said:


> A close up pic, I just wonder if the housing is plastic or actual Carbon Fiber?


You don't need carbon fiber for such component. Strong plastic is enough, as the previous XO twist shifters 9 speeds.


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## dogdaysunrise (May 15, 2011)

Yeah, I was just wondering about it.


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## B.Trimble (Oct 26, 2011)

STS said:


> I have used both
> Recon is half the weight of the X0, but is unusable, lot of ghost shifts, and chain and parts are always in danger


So the 'Recon' 9/10 grip shifter is no good????


----------



## ayjay69 (Mar 9, 2008)

dogdaysunrise said:


> A close up pic, I just wonder if the housing is plastic or actual Carbon Fiber?


Im sure that is UD carbon fiber.


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## HotzKiss (Jun 24, 2004)

The XX GS is SICK!!!


----------



## seppk (Apr 29, 2009)

Hopefully Sram doesn't smack us with the price on these. Regardless of the price though, these will be a necessity for me once they fully hit the market.


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## pumaking (Apr 10, 2009)

Cant disclose any info but Sram will be releasing X0 10 speed shifters as well. Saw the pics of the silver edition.


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## willymcd (May 16, 2007)

What the hell sram, hurry up and release these things already!


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## sam111 (Sep 2, 2007)

SRAM's 10 Speed Grip Shift - Pinkbike.com

Some photos...


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## jazclrint (Oct 22, 2005)

Finally!!!


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

On SRAM website now: SRAM | SRAM

So what is the weight of these things??


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## scalpel226 (Jul 11, 2006)

Available in April......Such a good news!!!:thumbsup:


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## cgar380 (Apr 24, 2007)

*Msrp*

from a guy at SRAM today.
MSRP 
xx 295$
xo 225$


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

cgar380 said:


> from a guy at SRAM today.
> MSRP
> xx 295$
> xo 225$


Plenty discussion on another thread about the joke SRAM is playing on us. It is one of the worst possible corporate-style scams in recent bicycle history. :madman: $225-295 for a shifter that probably will weight more than XTR when current 9 speed grip shift are around $50? Don't think so :madmax:


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## BruceBrown (Jan 16, 2004)

Davide said:


> Plenty discussion on another thread about the joke SRAM is playing on us. It is one of the worst possible corporate-style scams in recent bicycle history. :madman: $225-295 for a shifter


But weight weenies would pay that much for a stem, a cassette, a pair of rotors, a hub, a rear derailleur, a saddle, a seat post, etc... .

BB (still planning on running 9 speed as long as I can)


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## Davide (Jan 29, 2004)

BruceBrown said:


> But weight weenies would pay that much for a stem, a cassette, a pair of rotors, a hub, a rear derailleur, a saddle, a seat post, etc... .
> 
> BB (still planning on running 9 speed as long as I can)


And it this case they would be paying 4 times as much for something that weights MORE than last year products. 10 speed cassette vs 9 has a penalty of at least 40-60 grams, and the 10 speed grip-shift will get very close to XTR (the 9 is already just 20 grams lighter).

So, yes, I will too run 9 speed as long as I can :thumbsup:


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Are they out YET? Need to know the weights, to decide if I'll update to 2x10 or not....


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## ron4130 (Feb 4, 2008)

Here is the best update that I have found for the new XX and XO 10 speed gripshift.

//bikemagic.com/gear/sram-grip-shift-is-back-and-goes-10-speed.html]SRAM Grip Shift is back, and goes 10-speed » Bike Magic

rumors around town is these might be available in July.


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## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

They are already delayed until May


----------



## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

why the delay?


----------



## GTR2ebike (May 3, 2010)

sergio_pt said:


> why the delay?


Don't know but that is the date from QBP, no more details or more accurate date.


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## a2gtinut (May 23, 2007)

Gore did it too. delayed... maybe May.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

You wouldn't think they would be having so much trouble adding just one click and changing the spacing a bit. We put a man on the moon in less time. 

Personally I think when they went from 9 to 10 speeds they should have just jumped up to 150mm hub spacing on everything and added another cog at the same index. This inching up a few millimeters every few years crap is stupid. 135 to 142 or 150 what's the dif? Personally I design bikes around 170mm rear hubs so they can accommodate any tires/ wheels on the market. But that takes way to much foresight for the bike industry to wrap their little brains around, so at least give us 150mm. And who cares what road bikes are doing. That is a whole separate world with little cross over.

I'm going to have to think long an hard and probably wear out all my 9 speed stuff before I spend that kind of money on a shifter. It may even force me to go trigger which I haven't used for at least 10 years. Sram you may be loosing a loyal advocate.


----------



## whybotherme (Sep 12, 2008)

modifier said:


> You wouldn't think they would be having so much trouble adding just one click and changing the spacing a bit. We put a man on the moon in less time.
> 
> Personally I think when they went from 9 to 10 speeds they should have just jumped up to 150mm hub spacing on everything and added another cog at the same index. This inching up a few millimeters every few years crap is stupid. 135 to 142 or 150 what's the dif? Personally I design bikes around 170mm rear hubs so they can accommodate any tires/ wheels on the market. But that takes way to much foresight for the bike industry to wrap their little brains around, so at least give us 150mm. And who cares what road bikes are doing. That is a whole separate world with little cross over.
> 
> I'm going to have to think long an hard and probably wear out all my 9 speed stuff before I spend that kind of money on a shifter. It may even force me to go trigger which I haven't used for at least 10 years. Sram you may be loosing a loyal advocate.


it is called "planned obsolescence". it is a great strategy as long as you have the marketing/demand to sell your current product. Microsoft perfected the model.


----------



## AZ (Apr 14, 2009)

modifier said:


> You wouldn't think they would be having so much trouble adding just one click and changing the spacing a bit. We put a man on the moon in less time.
> 
> Personally I think when they went from 9 to 10 speeds they should have just jumped up to 150mm hub spacing on everything and added another cog at the same index. This inching up a few millimeters every few years crap is stupid. 135 to 142 or 150 what's the dif? Personally I design bikes around 170mm rear hubs so they can accommodate any tires/ wheels on the market. But that takes way to much foresight for the bike industry to wrap their little brains around, so at least give us 150mm. And who cares what road bikes are doing. That is a whole separate world with little cross over.
> 
> I'm going to have to think long an hard and probably wear out all my 9 speed stuff before I spend that kind of money on a shifter. It may even force me to go trigger which I haven't used for at least 10 years. Sram you may be loosing a loyal advocate.


Give us 135mm front hubs while your at it, enough with the road bike standard.


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

AZ.MTNS said:


> Give us 135mm front hubs while your at it, enough with the road bike standard.


Yep. 170 rear 135 front. Make for stronger wheels and better side load triangulation on frames and forks. Plus more room to do what ever you want with rotors and clusters. No more trying to squeeze too much stuff in too little space. Give em 15 years and it will likely be the standard.


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## ADDam (Jun 7, 2008)

Hey guys, I put them up on our site for pre-order:

SRAM XX Gripshift - 2x10 in Tree Fort Bikes Shifters (cat96)


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## Cayenne_Pepa (Dec 18, 2007)

Jesus H Christ....those things cost an arm, leg and nutsack now!!!!


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## modifier (May 11, 2007)

Zachariah said:


> Jesus H Christ....those things cost an arm, leg and nutsack now!!!!


Yep. You can get 2011 X0s for $63 at Pricepoint. Or for 4.7 times the price you can get XX. I mean 10 speed is cool but is it that cool? I think things have gotten out of hand.

Sram needs to speak up and educate us on why these shifters are such a vast improvement over XOs. They gotta be a vast improvement for that price, right?  Just adding a gear can't cost that much. I've never had any issues with XOs.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

you have already seen this right?
New SRAM Grip Shift - Tech Details, Photos, Weights & First Impressions - Bike Rumor

Looks cool :thumbsup: Could be lighter though... 

What do you guys think?


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## willymcd (May 16, 2007)

I think they failed, no front derailleur micro trimming, and they over engineered everything to jack up the price, the old plastic ones seem to outlive every other bike component, worked flawlessly and are cheap, these things are the same but super pricey because they used a bunch of nonsensical high price parts to build it. 
The only thing I like about the new ones are the integrated grip, though I don't like how it is propitiatory. I used to like sram, but now I think they suck!


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## MrEconomics (Aug 23, 2004)

willymcd said:


> I think they failed, no front derailleur micro trimming, and they over engineered everything to jack up the price, the old plastic ones seem to outlive every other bike component, worked flawlessly and are cheap, these things are the same but super pricey because they used a bunch of nonsensical high price parts to build it.
> The only thing I like about the new ones are the integrated grip, though I don't like how it is propitiatory. I used to like sram, but now I think they suck!


Agree. SRAM is turning into Shimano. Very arrogant and trying to empty our wallets with fancy advertising. SRAM gained market share on Shimano because shimano got expensive and arrogant. Now they've opened the door for Shimano to do the same.

The XX twist are a joke. If my new bike didn't come with 10-speed I'd be running 9 still. There is no benefit with 10 for me. I had similar gearing set up with my 9 speed plus 9 is half maintenance cost.


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

apart from the whole $ argument and frustration (wich I understand), I,d have 2 questions for you guys

1-Will the XO new grip shift be compatible with a full sram XX drivetrain? 

2-Anyone here is gonna buy them as soon as they are out? (think I am going to...)

thanks


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## jazclrint (Oct 22, 2005)

1. Yes

2. If I have the money.


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## mucky (Dec 17, 2010)

I have checked into the guy who does the old gripshift conversion. To buy a new set from him is $170 U.S. To send in your existing shifters, it's $100. He is charging more for the conversion than the actual shifters cost. Looks like SRAM isn't really that bad after all. I still think they are ripping us off though

The old design is just so simple, I think I would rather have my 9spd converted to 10spd instead if buying the new ones.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

Devincicx said:


> apart from the whole $ argument and frustration (wich I understand), I,d have 2 questions for you guys
> 
> 1-Will the XO new grip shift be compatible with a full sram XX drivetrain?
> 
> ...


yes

yes!


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

now WHEN will these babies be available in the bike shops?


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

got to test them out today at Sea Otter. I dont like the feel of the new shifter grips. They feel like the have smaller knobs compared to my 9 speed XO grip shifts. And seem more slippery. Hopefully they will be able to be replaced. The shifting on the other hand feels good, shifting up front from small ring to big with one click.


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

did you happen to have a hint as to when they will be available for purchase?


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

Devincicx said:


> did you happen to have a hint as to when they will be available for purchase?


yes i asked them and they said next month. Went back to try them today with gloves on and the grip feels better with my gloves on than bare handed.


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## sfer1 (Feb 22, 2009)

I noticed that Absalon used them in Pietermaritzburg, but went back to trigger shifters in Houffalize. I guess he didn't like them.

Pietermaritzburg









Houffalize


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## Devincicx (Nov 20, 2011)

yep noticed exactly the same thing.

Someone knows if its gonna save a little bit of weight over a XX trigger match maker combo?

I am temped to buy them, think id prefer the shifting and the cockpit looks a lot cleaner.


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## besoft (Dec 7, 2007)

I will try them, the only reason im not riding my 2x10 group is because it didnt have gripshift.


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## DeeEight (Jan 13, 2004)

Now they just need to offer a shimano dynasys derailleur compatible version for the following model year as well as the x9 and x7 versions.


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## suprteck (Sep 27, 2009)

DeeEight said:


> Now they just need to offer a shimano dynasys derailleur compatible version for the following model year as well as the x9 and x7 versions.


SRAM is coming out with their own type 2 rear derailleur


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