# NEW - revised KCNC V-Brake: 174g !!!



## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

i just got the revised KCNC VB-1 V-Brakes.

earlier pre-series samples that already circulate had the problem that the brakearms were too short. this hindered you from using tires wider than 2,0"-2.1". they also had steel hardware to fix the pads and no lever reach adjustement.

all this has been solved on the final version:
-arms are now 98mm long just like Extralite Ultrabrakes
-hardware is now ALL aluminium thus much lighter
-levers got a reach adjustement bolt

the result is awesome: 174g for the set front and rear !!!!!! 

levers: 48g

KCNC has done an excellent job here ! all problems of the earlier series got sorted out, the finish is awesome as well. i will get back with more detailed pictures and info later...


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## sworkspilot (Jun 26, 2005)

They do look great, what is the price on them?


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## drainyoo (May 12, 2007)

They look great. Too bad I dont use Vees.


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## Cloxxki (Jan 11, 2004)

Shoot, and the next lightweight frame I want is definately disc-only :-(


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

They listened !

Do you think those of us who paid lots of money for the first sets, with the steel hardware (that didn't even fit !!) will get a free alloy brake mount upgrade ?


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## G-Live (Jan 14, 2004)

Cloxxki said:


> Shoot, and the next lightweight frame I want is definately disc-only :-(


No worries Cloxxki, What's a pound among 29er zealo...I mean friends.

G, Getting ready for the 4th mud race of the season...running discs!


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

nino said:


> i just got the revised KCNC VB-1 V-Brakes.
> 
> earlier pre-series samples that already circulate had the problem that the brakearms were too short. this hindered you from using tires wider than 2,0"-2.1". they also had steel hardware to fix the pads and no lever reach adjustement.
> 
> ...


So what's the deal? Are you off KCNC's "shite list" and back in business?:skep:


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## dennis rides Scott (Mar 3, 2005)

I will wait until the Vee's become available separate, maybe never. I still have the Extralite Ultralevers, and I won't give them up. They have been great.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

FWIW - based on ninos advice I run a 2.4 Nobby Nic on the front for better small bump absorption and grip. With my Extralite brakes and levers I do get a little rubbing on the cable (noodle) stop on the top knobs. I've ridden like that for a bit. I might trim the nobs or wear them down so I don't hear the contact under braking. 

For a race last weekend I switched to a 2.25 UST NN up front and similar Racing Ralf on the rear for added blurp, leak comfort and was fine. I certainly was able to grab a paw full of firm braking through to ceramics rims. Nothing puts parts to the test like a race.

To be fair, some of the EL brakes required the customer to machine the cable/noodle stop bracket a little for it to fit in. That was sort of pathetic. 

I've read more misinformation (and disillusionment) on brakes in these forums then I care to recall :nono: It will be very interesting to hear how these hold up out of the box but also both EL's brake setup and the kcnc's long term durability. 

It sounds like KCNC has been really good listening to customer reviews :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*MORE tire clearance with the KCNC brakes!*



Slobberdoggy said:


> FWIW - based on ninos advice I run a 2.4 Nobby Nic on the front for better small bump absorption and grip. With my Extralite brakes and levers I do get a little rubbing on the cable (noodle) stop on the top knobs. I've ridden like that for a bit. I might trim the nobs or wear them down so I don't hear the contact under braking.
> 
> It sounds like KCNC has been really good listening to customer reviews :thumbsup:


with the KCNC there is MORE tire clearance. Extralite has that cable-holder thing which has some sharp edges. it's there where your fat tire rubs against. the KCNC have this holder removable so the cables can be attached outside of the arms .his makes for a couple of millimeter bigger clearance also when the brakelevers themselves have the same lenght.

see that golden coloured cableholder which comes standard.it can be removed and the cable can be attached direct on the sides of the left brakearms. saves weight and gives more clearance as well. picture on the bike is still with the earlier,short version but you get the idea.there is no bulky aluminium thing sticking out just above the tire.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Hmm . . I failed to make that observation. You are correct. That is a nice feature.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*



Axis II said:


> So what's the deal? Are you off KCNC's "shite list" and back in business?:skep:


as you can see i'm still in the business:thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*more details...*

here's more details on the new version of the KCNC VB-1 Brakeset:

-pads now weigh just 32g (were 46g before)
-naked brakearms weigh 47,6g (were 47,2g)
-aluminium canti-studs f+r weigh 12g

and finally shown the complete V-Brake Set consisting of:

V-Brake front+rear
Brakelevers left+right
4 pairs of aluminium cantilever studs (with different threads)
2 pairs of long aluminium cantibolts
2 pairs of short aluminium cantibolts
2 leadpipes
2 cableholders (golden colour)


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Hmmm it looks very good! It’s around 30g lighter than the previous version right? No steel hardware, better tire clearance and better leverage, they should also brake better because of this longer brake arms. Well done KCNC

Have you tested them nino? Is it the same price?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> Hmmm it looks very good! It's around 30g lighter than the previous version right? No steel hardware, better tire clearance and better leverage, they should also brake better because of this longer brake arms. Well done KCNC
> 
> Have you tested them nino? Is it the same price?


no i haven't tested them yet. yes - same price.


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## Kam (Jan 12, 2004)

price per v-brake? price for a set of levers?

i saw some extralite levers and a v-brake on ebay a while back. i think the auctions ended at about $140 for one v-brake (one end) and $140 for a set of levers. :eekster:


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Are the 4 canti studs normal length :skep: Look kinda short to me. Maybe I missed that in an earlier post.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*cantistuds...*



Slobberdoggy said:


> Are the 4 canti studs normal length :skep: Look kinda short to me. Maybe I missed that in an earlier post.


correct - these are shorter lenght to fit the KCNC brakes.

anway - the KCNC brakes are not only lighter but paired to those studs you will loose even more grams so the advantage compared to the Extralites gets even bigger!!!

usually a set of steel studs weighs about 22g/pair
Titaniums are about 14g/pair
regular aluminium around 12g/pair

the KCNC studs weigh 6g/pair so you can do the math on the additional savings you get by using these:
if you already have 
aluminium studs on your bike the KCNC will save at least another 12g in studs alone:thumbsup: 
if you have titanium studs additional savings are 16g
if you have steel studs the savings are 32g

now have a look at the pricing as well:
a set of extralite brakes and levers just like the KCNC costs a tremendous amount: 545 Euro  compared to this sum the KCNC seem like a final sale-price

Extralite prices found on their website:
levers: 169 euro
v-brakes: 338 euro
cantistuds front: 19 euro 
cantistuds rear: not available...lets put 19 euro nevertheless


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## Hubert (Dec 22, 2004)

Brakelevers seem to be a bit shorter than the ones on the Extralite levers, is this correct?

How much does a complete set (levers + brakes) cost?

@Nino, does your actual bike setup differ a lot from the specs as seen on light-bikes.com?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Hubert said:


> Brakelevers seem to be a bit shorter than the ones on the Extralite levers, is this correct?
> 
> How much does a complete set (levers + brakes) cost?
> 
> @Nino, does your actual bike setup differ a lot from the specs as seen on light-bikes.com?


no, the levers are the same size ! see picture.

"official" price is 330 Euro for the KCNC-set....

my bike is always changing a bit depending on wheels+tires used...but all the rest is just like listed on light-bikes.com. at the moment i'm using Crossmax SLRs with Conti Speedking 2,1 supersonics.


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## Hubert (Dec 22, 2004)

Nino,

Can you tell us anything about the bearing quality used in both the brakes and levers. Do you seen any differences in long-term durability?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

Hubert said:


> Nino,
> 
> Can you tell us anything about the bearing quality used in both the brakes and levers. Do you seen any differences in long-term durability?


there is no "bearing".

but you don't have any bearings on 99% of all v-brakes and levers as well so this shouldn't affect durability at all.

as far as i know only XTR ,Avid Ultimate and Extralites have bearings on the brakes. and i can definitely tell you that the bearings on my Extralites start running rough...


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

nino said:


> no, the levers are the same size ! see picture.
> 
> "official" price is 330 Euro for the KCNC-set....
> 
> my bike is always changing a bit depending on wheels+tires used...but all the rest is just like listed on light-bikes.com. at the moment i'm using Crossmax SLRs with Conti Speedking 2,1 supersonics.


I think he's talking about the handlebar levers. You have not shown us the EL handlebar levers vs. the KCNC - you put a ruler next to the v-brake arm.

nino doesn't your brake line and computer wire get caught on debris? They are very far in the way. It looks ugly too. Have you thought of a wireless computer.

I have to admit I'm starting to become more convinced by this brake setup but would like a more thorough test from somebody, preferably someone who doesn't sell them and actually gets their bike dirty.

Also, it's pretty clear who Extralite is, S.R. has been in Mountain Bike Action magazine and has a pretty transparent website. Who is KCNC, where are based out of etc. etc? It sounds like they responded to complaints very fast :thumbsup:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*ooops...*



Slobberdoggy said:


> I think he's talking about the handlebar levers. You have not shown us the EL handlebar levers vs. the KCNC - you put a ruler next to the v-brake arm.
> 
> nino doesn't your brake line and computer wire get caught on debris? They are very far in the way. It looks ugly too. Have you thought of a wireless computer.
> 
> ...


i indeed forgot to add the picture. i have now attached it above....the levers have the same size than the Extralites!

sorry - no wireless for me!!! have you ever weighed your computer? mine weighs 42g including everything. most wireless computers sender on the fork alone weigh as much the Spinner fork in the picture above is NOT the fork i am usually riding with! i usually ride with a tuned SID. the Spinner was just in place for about 2 weeks when my SID lowers got new paint this spring. i didn't pay much attention to the cablemount as it got removed in just a couple of days anyway. no, i never have any poblems with my wire.

Hey Slob, my bike gets dirty!!

but i can't give a comment on performance of those brakes yet since i still haven't mounted the KCNCs.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Two month report on my KCNC brake set - great ! - Zero problems


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

I was thinking... Can these KCNC brakes stop a heavy guy without any brake failure... like a 90kg (200lb) guy? I'm not that heavy bot just quetioning.

How much do you weight Ty?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*same performance than Extralite*



sergio_pt said:


> I was thinking... Can these KCNC brakes stop a heavy guy without any brake failure... like a 90kg (200lb) guy? I'm not that heavy bot just quetioning.
> 
> How much do you weight Ty?


the KCNC have no less power than the Extralite!


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

Nino - just wondering what the situation is regarding service if I break a bolt or something and need to get a replacement?


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> I was thinking... Can these KCNC brakes stop a heavy guy without any brake failure... like a 90kg (200lb) guy? I'm not that heavy bot just quetioning.
> 
> How much do you weight Ty?


Not sure I have never weighed myself !! Ever !

5' 11" - average build.

I am probably not the best person to ask as I use these on tarmac, but they can stop a full on sprint as fast as anything else I have ever used (XTR, XT, avid, Vuelta etc).


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

chequamagon said:


> Nino - just wondering what the situation is regarding service if I break a bolt or something and need to get a replacement?


With regard to the bolts it is all standard stuff, nothing weird or esoteric at all !!

In fact its better than that ! The whole design is so simple it only uses chain ring bolts and some M5 bolts !!!!

The cable pinch bolts on the arms and the clamp bolts on the levers are standard chain ring bolts, which you can get anywhere - the arm mounting bolts are bog standard M5 bolts which you can also get anywhere - and that is it as far as the bolts go, nothing else !!!

Stuff like pad mounting bolts are also standard, for example, I am using the pad hardware from my old Vueltas and some alloy washers I had lying around.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

Ty said:


> With regard to the bolts it is all standard stuff, nothing weird or esoteric at all !!
> 
> In fact its better than that ! The whole design is so simple it only uses chain ring bolts and some M5 bolts !!!!
> 
> ...


Ty - you missed the point. That question was for *NINO*, and Nino only.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

chequamagon said:


> Ty - you missed the point. That question was for *NINO*, and Nino only.


Maybe I did miss your point (whatever it might be?)

. . . but this is a _public_ forum, you asked a question and I answered it, if you have a question exclusively for Nino then send him an email or a PM.


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## sergio_pt (Jan 29, 2007)

Ty said:


> Not sure I have never weighed myself !! Ever !
> 
> 5' 11" - average build.
> 
> I am probably not the best person to ask as I use these on tarmac, but they can stop a full on sprint as fast as anything else I have ever used (XTR, XT, avid, Vuelta etc).


 never weighted yourself? lol You should be around 80kg

My point is that I can't trust the aluminium brake mounts and bolts holding the brakes and all your safety...
Isn't aluminium too soft and prone to crack easily under the high pressures of braking??


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*no problem.*



sergio_pt said:


> never weighted yourself? lol You should be around 80kg
> 
> My point is that I can't trust the aluminium brake mounts and bolts holding the brakes and all your safety...
> Isn't aluminium too soft and prone to crack easily under the high pressures of braking??


i'm using aluminium all over my v-brakes. never had any trouble.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

sergio_pt said:


> Isn't aluminium too soft and prone to crack easily under the high pressures of braking??


Why the bolts ? The arms are also made from alloy, maybe they will brake under the high pressures of braking, and not just the KCNC brakes, pretty much all high end V brakes are alloy, XTR is alloy, Avids are alloy, maybe these will also brake !

If you are concerned, simply replace the alloy bolts with steel.


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## chequamagon (Oct 4, 2006)

Ty said:


> Maybe I did miss your point (whatever it might be?)
> 
> . . . but this is a _public_ forum, you asked a question and I answered it, if you have a question exclusively for Nino then send him an email or a PM.


That question wasnt so much of a question, but a, ahem, _compliment_ to Nino's customer service based on other threads about KCNC stuff.


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## Tjay (Oct 17, 2006)

Hi guys,

Not to jack the thread but ...

I have a v-brakes on my '07 tassajara and I have been planning on buying a lighter wheel set. I did found one for $200 out the door that weighs around 1800 grams. Pretty cheap and light for the price but my concern is that it needs a disc brake upgrade! 

The reason why I got the Vees was because it was 1 lb lighter than the disc of the same model. I see there's quite a few of you guys that are running Vees and was wondering what wheelset do you guys run? Is it affordable (around $200-300) and light weight (1800 grams)?


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Crossmax SL (the older silver ones) 1458g - expensive (around $600-$800).


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Tjay said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Not to jack the thread but ...
> 
> ...


I think I saw that Performance had the CrossMax XLs on sale for insanely low prices. 1624g and a bomber wheelset. Maybe 400 for the set? You get ceramic rims as well.:thumbsup:


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

@ Ty

It is chequamagon's continueing digs at Nino about his selling of light weight parts and that it appears to chequamagon that Nino is always trying to sell something. In regards to this post, chequamagon is pointing out that Nino is not going to help out a person that bought a KCNC post and then while riding, came down on the seat and broke the post (the way it is supposed to break according to the design) and Nino would not warranty the post.

I am sure that chequamagon will continue to go after Nino when he can as he does not agree with the way that Nino posts on this site. 

Maybe we should just start a thread called chequamagon vs. Nino. This way we can keep the posts about specific parts or other discussions on topic and chequamagon and Nino can have it out in a thread all to themselves.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

bdc88 said:


> @ Ty
> 
> It is chequamagon's continueing digs at Nino about his selling of light weight parts and that it appears to chequamagon that Nino is always trying to sell something. In regards to this post, chequamagon is pointing out that Nino is not going to help out a person that bought a KCNC post and then while riding, came down on the seat and broke the post (the way it is supposed to break according to the design) and Nino would not warranty the post.
> 
> ...


It all makes sense now !

Evil ol' Nino ! In a world with childhood leukemia, liver disease, rape, pedophilia and cancer I think we should put time aside to seek out where Nino posts and berate him.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Is $418 USD, which includes shipping, a good price? 

Delete if inappropriate but I'm just curious if that is a good price or if they are being sold for less.


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## Axis II (May 10, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> Is $418 USD, which includes shipping, a good price?
> 
> Delete if inappropriate but I'm just curious if that is a good price or if they are being sold for less.


IMO, that's a very good price for the XLs and an excellent price for the Sls.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Does anyone know if KCNC are going to make a kit available to those who bought the product before the update, most of us had to do a bit of botching/chopping to get the awful pad mounting hardware to work.

I am even prepared to pay !

"customer service" . . . . hint . . . . hint.


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Ty said:


> Does anyone know if KCNC are going to make a kit available to those who bought the product before the update, most of us had to do a bit of botching/chopping to get the awful pad mounting hardware to work.
> 
> I am even prepared to pay !
> 
> "customer service" . . . . hint . . . . hint.


How can one spot the old version verses the new version?


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

Slobberdoggy said:


> How can one spot the old version verses the new version?


*Old version:*

Steel pad mounting hardware that doesn't actually fit (!!) - no reach adjustment on levers.

. . . . . . . .

*New version:
*
Alloy pad mounting hardware on the brake arms (looks nice in the gold) + reach adjustment screws (red anodized) on the levers. + Longer brake arms to allow the use of bigger tyres.

_The newer version is also lighter because of the alloy pad mounting hardware._

I understand that the reach adjustment would be difficult/impossible to retrofit - and to be honest I don't need it as I am happy with the levers as they are - but it would be great for all us folk who supported the company early on to at least have the chance to buy an alloy pad hardware upgrade - and not even for weight reasons ! - my pad mounting hardware has extra washers - rounded out alan heads and all sorts of crap going on from when I tried to install the poorly made hardware.

*C'mon KCNC, customer support !*


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

> *C'mon KCNC, customer support !*


LMFAO!!! Hell they are in the UK!

They can't stop ebay and other NON-AUTHORIZED SELLERS.

IMO, their CS sucks! I have nothing of complaints about them.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

DIRT BOY said:


> LMFAO!!! Hell they are in the UK!
> 
> They can't stop ebay and other NON-AUTHORIZED SELLERS.
> 
> IMO, their CS sucks! I have nothing of complaints about them.


Get in the queue behind me DB !

How are you getting on with the new member of the family ? I might be dropping one myself soon !*

*well not me personally, but you know what I mean.


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

I email KCNC direct and was discussing all the issues that I had with the V1 product and they did not really care to much. Their suggestion was to sell them and buy the V2 product. It would be great to get new pad holders with proper mounting hardware but this was a good lesson for me to hold off getting the next best and brightest new product until they shake down the product for a while.

While they were good at getting back to me in regards to my emails, there was no way that they were going to help me out.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*c'mon...*



bdc88 said:


> I email KCNC direct and was discussing all the issues that I had with the V1 product and they did not really care to much. Their suggestion was to sell them and buy the V2 product. It would be great to get new pad holders with proper mounting hardware but this was a good lesson for me to hold off getting the next best and brightest new product until they shake down the product for a while.
> 
> While they were good at getting back to me in regards to my emails, there was no way that they were going to help me out.


the only problem the 1st generation had was that you had to add a washer so you had enough thread to thighten. this really isn't that much of a problem but still annoying when you get a brakeset for this kind of money.

i personally don't use the reach adjustement on the new levers. i never did as well on the Extralite Ultralevers too.

@Slobberdoggy:
you can easily tell the difference between "old" and "new"

"old":
steel pad mounting hardware. the allen nut is silver
no red reach adjustement bolt at the levers

"new":
golden aluminium nut for pad mounting
red reach adjustement bolt

it should be possible to get the alloy hardware upgrade. i'll try my best. i also just ordered a couple of spare parts for the seatpost after getting the short end of the stick last time....


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

Wait a minute!

I thought you said the old version also had shorter arms?

That seems like a fundamental difference one should point out. 

I wonder how many of the v1's kcnc sent out and if they are recalling them or anything. 

  :madman: :madmax:


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*well...*



Slobberdoggy said:


> Wait a minute!
> 
> I thought you said the old version also had shorter arms?
> 
> ...


correct.

but you asked for the differences you can visuably see. the arm lenght can't be seen on pictures alone. and the short arm lenght was a well known fact right from the beginning. I was the one pointing to this in my very first presentation:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=296718&highlight=KCNC

here:
http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3059524&postcount=47

i think there is no need for a recall. the brakes work but indeed allow only for limited tire sizes (max. 2,1"). the new updated version has 5mm longer arms and no such problems.


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## EuroMack (Jan 15, 2007)

For lightweight pads and hardware, perhaps you could go to the source?
http://www.kurbike.com/detail/124279/124279.html


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

bdc88 said:


> I email KCNC direct and was discussing all the issues that I had with the V1 product and they did not really care to much. Their suggestion was to sell them and buy the V2 product. It would be great to get new pad holders with proper mounting hardware but this was a good lesson for me to hold off getting the next best and brightest new product until they shake down the product for a while.
> 
> While they were good at getting back to me in regards to my emails, there was no way that they were going to help me out.


KCNC is a bunch if frigging *idiots*! They are working very hard to go from a OEM company to a boutique one. They are after the WW crowd big time as well. This is NOT a good way to start. Crappy CS is not the way to win over anyone. KCNC is too big of a company to do this. I can see smaller ones and in countries were CS in not the best to handle things like this.

Having joe blow sell things things near dealer cost on ebay and other places with NO help from KCNC with warranties and bad parts will not help.

Look what happened to Schwalbe years ago. Bad/second/throw away tires (some good ones that were stolen) went of ebay for $10-20. There were so many issues with these and their was no recourse from ebay or what not.
I don't balme Schwalbe for not helping everyone )they did with some) but it gave them a bad name for a while.

If Phil from KCNC UK is on this board, he should take not a and report to the mother ship!

Then again early adopters ALWAYS get screwed.

KCNC, take note what Apple did CS wise!!  :thumbsup: Now that's a real company that will build real loyalty!


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

When I was emailing KCNC they told me that the max tire width was 1.9 which I do not remember seeing listed anywhere so I might just put these on my single speed build with my 1.9 Maxxis tires.

I would really like to then pick up a second pair (newer versions) for my XC build.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*sorry...*



DIRT BOY said:


> KCNC is a bunch if frigging *idiots*! They are working very hard to go from a OEM company to a boutique one. They are after the WW crowd big time as well. This is NOT a good way to start. Crappy CS is not the way to win over anyone. KCNC is too big of a company to do this. I can see smaller ones and in countries were CS in not the best to handle things like this.
> 
> Having joe blow sell things things near dealer cost on ebay and other places with NO help from KCNC with warranties and bad parts will not help.
> 
> ...


i don't know why you are blaming KCNC in this manner. so far they didn't have any failures. it's the distributors that have to take care of warranties in 1st place.

KCNC is doing an awesome job in manufacturing lightweight parts that don't cost a fortune like some other boutique parts do. it's always your choice to buy a expensive part elsewhere if you don't like it.

i guess your Extralite parts sales must be going down quite dramatically with KCNC offering lighter and much cheaper parts. but it's not correct to blame a company if there is no reason to !

i for myself have learned a lesson and try to get some spare parts fo parts i sell. it can't be that the consumer has to contact a manufacturer in the far east for tiny replacement parts...


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## DIRT BOY (Aug 22, 2002)

nino said:


> i guess your Extralite parts sales must be going down quite dramatically with KCNC offering lighter and much cheaper parts. but it's not correct to blame a company if there is no reason to !


Acutally not ONE BIT! I will be carrying more KCNC anyways.

Brakes: I have several customers with both and so far they prefer the Extralite Brakes and Levers. Buy how much? Not really. More on overall feel. KCNC has a VERY good product here. These will probably out sell the Extralite brakes. Levers? no. The price is better especially with the Euro going way up.

Posts: About the same quality here. Edge to KCNC for the price. Long term durability, we will see.

Stems: Extralite hands down! Not even close.

Cranks: Extralite including beating TOKEN.

Now some will roll with Extralite just on the point of having something more exotic, thought out and unique Also the more Chi-Chi factor. Other will go simply on price.

Extralite cannot compete on pricing with a huge Taiwanese company. They know that as well as KCNC. Extralite will be fine as well as sales.

Again I will be selling these so sales/money is NOT a factor. I am honest with my sales. I will flat out recommend other parts, site and wheel builders where necessary to make a customer happy. Because good karma will always come back.

But for KCNC to put a product out thats is not right or working properly is unacceptable (sound like Stan in the early days.). There business practice here of annoying buyers when they are coming into the market is flat out stupid. Good CS is the #1 way to enter the market.
Now not using a tire over 2.1 is fine. These are WW brakes, right?


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## Slobberdoggy (Sep 26, 2005)

DIRT BOY said:


> But for KCNC to put a product out thats is not right or working properly is unacceptable (sound like Stan in the early days.). There business practice here of annoying buyers when they are coming into the market is flat out stupid. Good CS is the #1 way to enter the market.


Agree, and now there is a problem of the originals still on the market and consumers are skeptical about buying. Which are they getting, the corrected ones or the bad ones? Only being able to run a 1.9 tire, "is bad". Shorter arms = less braking power. Hmmm . . . sounds strangely familiar to me for some reason 

I remember the litany of arguments for longer brake arms on the vueltas - now it doesn't matter anymore 

I want to give an unbiased review on these brakes but with the bad ones on the market all ready it's just so annoying. They might be great but what about the first series floating out there that kcnc told a customer to resell :madmax: If I get these (because they are light and interestingly designed) I don't really feel like saying anything positive.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*sorry again...*



Slobberdoggy said:


> Agree, and now there is a problem of the originals still on the market and consumers are skeptical about buying. Which are they getting, the corrected ones or the bad ones? Only being able to run a 1.9 tire, "is bad". Shorter arms = less braking power. Hmmm . . . sounds strangely familiar to me for some reason
> 
> I remember the litany of arguments for longer brake arms on the vueltas - now it doesn't matter anymore
> 
> I want to give an unbiased review on these brakes but with the bad ones on the market all ready it's just so annoying. They might be great but what about the first series floating out there that kcnc told a customer to resell :madmax: If I get these (because they are light and interestingly designed) I don't really feel like saying anything positive.


even the 1st pre-series of brakes is working properly. it has limited tire choice but this was well known to anyone buying them...so you either accept or get the new and revised brakes that are on the market now - it's as easy as that.

as mentioned above you can easily tell the difference between "old" and "new".

i think it is good news that a manufacturer corrects an item that fast. i was the one complaining about the short arm lenght even before i sold the 1st set ! i immediately contacted KCNC and told about that rather short arm lenght and about further weight reduction possibilities by using aluminium hardware and they reacted immediately. now i agree that they should have known that from the beginning but they cured these problems real fast. from what i know only about 70 of those "old" sets got on the market.


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## bikeaholics.de (Mar 30, 2006)

nino said:


> even the 1st pre-series of brakes is working properly. it has limited tire choice but this was well known to anyone buying them...so you either accept or get the new and revised brakes that are on the market now - it's as easy as that.


hello!!! other companies do test-rides with test-riders and not with customers so there are not products with such big failures.

nino -its allways the same with you. biking is not your passion its your marketplace. thats a fact!


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*oh boy...*



bikeaholics.de said:


> hello!!! other companies do test-rides with test-riders and not with customers so there are not products with such big failures.
> 
> nino -its allways the same with you. biking is not your passion its your marketplace. thats a fact!


no - you still don't know me!

anyway- the 1st generation brakes work flawless but have limited tire choice. that's like saying a semislick is no good tire because it is weak in the wet...it has it's limitations but works where it's intended use is. or aluminium disc-rotors...no one will complain of decreased power as anyone already knows about certain limitations of this product...i could go on and on...

same with the 1st generation brakes. people knew that tire choice was limited. i also told the exact measurements in the german WW forum before i sold a single brake. i even showed detailed pictures there! so if customers are willing to get a lightweight brake with limited tire size it's their choice ! if i was about doing business only i wouldn't show such weaknesses in detail!


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## Sonny (Feb 25, 2004)

EuroMack said:


> For lightweight pads and hardware, perhaps you could go to the source?
> http://www.kurbike.com/detail/124279/124279.html


- Compatible with Shimano XT/XTR ,KCNC VB1 and all major V- brakes -

it can't fit in ultrabrakes cause of the M7 bolt.


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

nino said:


> the only problem the 1st generation had was that you had to add a washer so you had enough thread to thighten. this really isn't that much of a problem but still annoying when you get a brakeset for this kind of money.
> 
> i personally don't use the reach adjustement on the new levers. i never did as well on the Extralite Ultralevers too.
> 
> ...


Nino if you get the alloy hardware upgrade - shoot me an email !

Cheers

Lee


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## Ty (May 20, 2004)

EuroMack said:


> For lightweight pads and hardware, perhaps you could go to the source?
> http://www.kurbike.com/detail/124279/124279.html


Doesn't seem to be any way of ordering from these people ?

Are they for retailers only and not selling to the public ?


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

It can´t fit ANY one other than VB1.


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## Dream Bikes (Oct 1, 2005)

nino said:


> no, the levers are the same size ! see picture.


The same size? Are you Joking? :nono:


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## BlownCivic (Sep 12, 2006)

I have started experiencing a behaviour with my VB1 brakes that is a pain in the ass. Every once in a while, the tension spring will unseat itself from it's anchor point into the top of the brake arm. This has only happened on the rear so far, but the other springs tend to sit about 1/2 way into their respective holes. It's a pain because it means I have to stop, and fiddel around with the damned thing to try and push it back into the arm. Otherwise, I have a brake arm with no tension, which leads to the pad rubbing on the braking track of the wheel. I don't need such a handicap.

I've resorted to putting small cable ties around the spring/arm to capture the end of the spring to prevent this.

Anyone else experience his behaviour?


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*me too...*



BlownCivic said:


> I have started experiencing a behaviour with my VB1 brakes that is a pain in the ass. Every once in a while, the tension spring will unseat itself from it's anchor point into the top of the brake arm. This has only happened on the rear so far, but the other springs tend to sit about 1/2 way into their respective holes. It's a pain because it means I have to stop, and fiddel around with the damned thing to try and push it back into the arm. Otherwise, I have a brake arm with no tension, which leads to the pad rubbing on the braking track of the wheel. I don't need such a handicap.
> 
> I've resorted to putting small cable ties around the spring/arm to capture the end of the spring to prevent this.
> 
> Anyone else experience his behaviour?


but that was on the front of my Extralite V's!

so far i had it happen twice that the Ti-return spring jumped out of it's place.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*ok...*



Dream Bikes said:


> The same size? Are you Joking? :nono:


ok- you could use 3 fingers on the Extralite, only 2 on the KCNC....BUT please show me how you are using 3 fingers on your brakes

besides the blades lenght they are about equal.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

You can´t avoid the fact that the Extralite's provide more leverage... Being bigger.... In every aspect....


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## rensho (Mar 8, 2004)

Quote:
Originally Posted by *nino*
no, the levers are the same size ! see picture.



Dream Bikes said:


> The same size? Are you Joking? :nono:


Nino, sometimes you really dig yourself a hole, especially when it is about products you sell...


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## Dream Bikes (Oct 1, 2005)

Another interesting picture :


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## snowdrifter (Aug 2, 2006)

Come on guys stop ragging on Nino, he only SPAMS the very best products.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

Cool! Thanks for the pics! I just bought a pair of those avid sl levers new for 7,5€ on e-bay, just to see how they work.

Now I just need to see them side by side with the Extralite ones...

After seeing those kcnc side by side with extralites, I'm not going to buy the kcnc ones... No way.


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*ow many fingers?*



Batas said:


> Cool! Thanks for the pics! I just bought a pair of those avid sl levers new for 7,5€ on e-bay, just to see how they work.
> 
> Now I just need to see them side by side with the Extralite ones...
> 
> After seeing those kcnc side by side with extralites, I'm not going to buy the kcnc ones... No way.


c'mon guys - how many fingers do you use on the levers when braking? i use 1 finger, maybe 2 but definitely not the full hand. the KCNC do the job. you don't need a longer blade unless your brakes don't have any power and really need a full hand


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## bdc88 (Sep 27, 2005)

I have to agree with Nino on this one. I have never used more than 2 fingers on any brake system (road, mtb, bmx or cross) since I started riding bikes 30 years ago. 

1 or 2 fingers max and never in my life three.


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

bdc88 said:


> I have to agree with Nino on this one. I have never used more than 2 fingers on any brake system (road, mtb, bmx or cross) since I started riding bikes 30 years ago.
> 
> 1 or 2 fingers max and never in my life three.


 That's not important for the comparison...

I only use one finger, allways, and I can see that I can have more power with the extralite levers than with the kcnc levers, at least from the pics, they seem to have more *leverage*. Assuming I put my finger on that bent end of the both levers.

So, in this case, size matters...


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## nino (Jan 13, 2004)

*weak brakes?*



Batas said:


> That's not important for the comparison...
> 
> I only use one finger, allways, and I can see that I can have more power with the extralite levers than with the kcnc levers, at least from the pics, they seem to have more *leverage*. Assuming I put my finger on that bent end of the both levers.
> 
> So, in this case, size matters...


hey, i have the perfect levers for you:
Vuelta Magnesium. the blade is MUCH longer than that of the Extralites as well....Full-hand approved


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## Cheers! (Jun 26, 2006)

nino said:


> hey, i have the perfect levers for you:
> Vuelta Magnesium. the blade is MUCH longer than that of the Extralites as well....Full-hand approved


No love for AVID Speed Dial Ultimates? Black OPS baby!


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## Batas (Jan 16, 2004)

You know that I wasn´t talking about the possibility on using a full hand to brake.

As I refered, and was very clear about, is that I use one finger only to brake, no matter the lenght of the lever.

I'm just saying that I'm skeptical about the power the kcnc provide compared to the ultralevers, as I don´t believe, using the same arms, that they both have the same power.


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