# Vintage pre AheadSet 'threadless' stems..what's the history



## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

So what's the deal with the early '80's 'threadless' stems that as far as I can gather were found on Ibis' and possibly others? I think they had something to do with Type II forks, and maybe LD stems/drop bars. It was someones better mousetrap for attatching the stem, but who was involved.. what was the deal? The steerer clamps seem to be <1". Was there a quill adapter that the stem then got bolted to?

-Schmitty-


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

They're not threadless headsets, but the stems are clamp on. Here's a pic of a '81 Ritchey. There is a stub brazed into the top of the fork steerer that extends above the top of the threaded headset. The stem then clamps on to the stub. Tom started using this design on mountain bikes with the introduction of bullmoose bars in '80 or '81, but had used it on road bikes before that. The design is pretty old and probably goes back to early 20th century European road bikes.

Ibis, Potts, and Cunningham all used similar approaches with the LD stems, but the deminsions and shapes varied.

By the mid-80's Ritchey was using the same style stem clamp but instead of the brazed in stub, he switched to a double-expander wedge quill. That design made swapping stems much easier, but it did add weight.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

Here's a pic of a similar setup on an early Ritchey road bike:


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

Potts and Cunningham also had a conical setup that allowed for no protruding bolts on the stem. I think Noah's got a nice diagram of this.

And yes, the stub that Laffeaux mentioned is 7/8" which slides right into a 1" steerer tube.

Salsa did it too, but wasn't very common:

Potts type with conical expander:


Later Ritchey type with double expander:


Old Ritcheys (I think the mtb is from '79):


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## mechagouki (Nov 30, 2007)

Weight gaining exercise?


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

mechagouki said:


> Weight gaining exercise?


no, shedding.


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## themanmonkey (Nov 1, 2005)

Those things go further back than your grandpa. Seriously the earliest examples I've seen date from about 100 years ago. It was really popular in Europe in the '30s and '50s Bicycle Quarterly (a.k.a. Vintage Bicycle Quarterly) had an article about two years or so ago. In the "modern" age I remember one by Glenn Erickson in the late-'70. It's a cool idea and works alright for something different.


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## Fillet-brazed (Jan 13, 2004)

themanmonkey said:


> Those things go further back than your grandpa. Seriously the earliest examples I've seen date from about 100 years ago. It was really popular in Europe in the '30s and '50s Bicycle Quarterly (a.k.a. Vintage Bicycle Quarterly) had an article about two years or so ago. In the "modern" age I remember one by Glenn Erickson in the late-'70. It's a cool idea and works alright for something different.


Yep, like most things, these go back before mtbs. I've seen some of the French stuff (Singer, Herse) with a similar setup too.

The only disadvantage I see is not being able to cut the fork to dif lengths and move the stem up and down.

Advantages are less weight and no wedge expanding inside your steerer tube possibly creating a structural issue.

Yeti went this way on a couple of their later threaded bikes.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2009)

pic of the conical version on the firstflight pottsy


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## sgltrak (Feb 19, 2005)

I have a 1992 Alpinestars T26 with that set up on it. However, I misplaced the stem sometime during the last 15 years while the bike had a Mag21 on it. Went to re-install the original fork a while back and can't find that original stem anywhere. Anyone have one?


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## Rody (Sep 10, 2005)

How ironic this topic should come up this evening, just finished this up today...






The video shows most of the process, including the quill adaptor.

cheers,

rody


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

Carsten said:


> pic of the conical version on the firstflight pottsy


That's neat. It's hard to see in that picture, is the stem/wedge keyed to help keep the stem from slipping?


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## bushpig (Nov 26, 2005)

nah. It expands as you tighten it but I really don't know why it doesn't slip.


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## laffeaux (Jan 4, 2004)

bushpig said:


> nah. It expands as you tighten it but I really don't know why it doesn't slip.


I'm betting it's "friction."


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

Rody said:


> How ironic this topic should come up this evening, just finished this up today...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Geeze Rody! Nice work on both the stem and the vid. Thanks for taking the time.

-Schmitty-


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## IF52 (Jan 10, 2004)

bushpig said:


> nah. It expands as you tighten it but I really don't know why it doesn't slip.


I couldn't see it as well on my monitor at home, but I see the split sleeve in the stem now on my monitor at work. Makes sense how it works seeing that.


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## Schmitty (Sep 7, 2008)

I'm posting one on Ebay. Long, and high likey for drops. I was told it's an Ibis, but looks very much like a Salsa (has large braze on tube for noodle hanger, but no noodle). Red, no decals.

-Schmitty-


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