# Is this the prettiest weld you have even seeing or what..!?!?



## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Lets try this again..









Ps: Picture thanks to Peter Verdone


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## rideit (Jan 22, 2004)

I think I just saw that over on Welding Web. I am curious how to achieve that, and if it actually serves a purpose besides needing multiple passes. (i guess it is a form of multi-pass, really!)


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

rideit said:


> I think I just saw that over on Welding Web. I am curious how to achieve that, and if it actually serves a purpose besides needing multiple passes. (i guess it is a form of multi-pass, really!)


I'm pretty sure this is how is done..


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

You are going to have to make this relevant to bikes or I'm binning it again. 

-Walt


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Walt said:


> You are going to have to make this relevant to bikes or I'm binning it again.
> 
> -Walt


So you are the one that did it, I was not sure why..

Relevant to bikes, well I can not answer that, relevant to TIG welding technics I'm all over..

Do what you wish, but give the posting a day so some other people can collaborate and see where it goes..

In fact show us some of you pretty welds please..


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## Walt (Jan 23, 2004)

You've got a day. What you've posted so far is IMO not on topic but if it develops into something useful, great. 

-Walt


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Okay Nicolai's have pretty much the best weld in the bicycle industry, at least for aluminum.

Here are some of mine, Raw M-pire.









The machining is also magnificent.









I like it so much that I got another one..









The little argon too..









This one is not mine but still a good example..









Show us what you got..:eekster:


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

Walt said:


> You've got a day. What you've posted so far is IMO not on topic but if it develops into something useful, great.
> 
> -Walt


Thanks..


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

My friend JP is a amazing TIG welder, but he was not even sure this was a weld, but a machine process (Reason why I start this posting)










Thin wall steel forks with out the need of a rod.










Oh yeah he can weld aluminum too, this bike is from 1986









Yeah very innovative too..


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## HillbillyTom (Sep 15, 2012)

The thing about welding bicycle frames that impresses me a lot is how they can maintain their hand positioning to weld a continuous pass all the way around a tube. Start at the bottom and go all the way up over the top, and back around to the bottom without stopping. Would takes some serious contorting to get that off I would think. The welding itself is pretty common Tig work, but to position your body to get smoothly all the way around that tube and the jig fixture takes some skill.:thumbsup:


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## TrailMaker (Sep 16, 2007)

Hey;

I'd guess those first ones are machine welded.

Laying down a straight bead with perfect symmetry is hard enough. Doing it around a mitered tube joint is phenomenally difficult. My welds prove it!


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## DEFCON4130 (Dec 19, 2009)

That first one was done by walking the cup and most likely with the aid of a welding positioner. Thats pretty much what i do all day... once you get use to walking the cup its super easy and a positioner will let you hang out at the same torch angle the whole pass making look like so.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

defcon4130 is bang on the money

was going to say this is walking the cup , its primary purpose is to keep constant gap at the torch tip second thing is its dissallowed for certain welds (not bicycle related) at least in the UK

this guy makes pretty welds
Weldolgy - a set on Flickr

personally i aint no fan of this faux stack of dimes love affair thats going on with wannabe welders , When i got certified many many years ago in aerospace there was no such thing as this make the weld pretty lark, spot welding a bike frame together with big overlapping blobs which are not fused properly? maybe not the best way to put anything together eh? the only way you are going to tell if a critical weld is sound is not by looking at it...but hey its only a bike right

this guy has it right though

Type 3.1 Journeyman Top Tube Length Arm & Head Tube Angle Pivot | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


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## graviT (Aug 9, 2009)

compositepro said:


> this guy makes pretty welds
> Weldolgy - a set on Flickr


Mostly stainless it would appear. Tends to look more like aluminum than most steels due to its convex profile to avoid cracking during cooling.



> spot welding a bike frame together with big overlapping blobs which are not fused properly? maybe not the best way to put anything together eh?


Couldn't agree more



> this guy has it right though
> 
> Type 3.1 Journeyman Top Tube Length Arm & Head Tube Angle Pivot | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


I really respect Don Ferris's work. Beautiful solid welds.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

compositepro said:


> defcon4130 is bang on the money
> 
> was going to say this is walking the cup , its primary purpose is to keep constant gap at the torch tip second thing is its dissallowed for certain welds (not bicycle related) at least in the UK
> 
> ...


Wow amazing, thanks for sharing, so what is he making aerospace (the parts look to heavy)..??

Does he use a fixture to spin the part or how does he do it..


> personally i aint no fan of this faux stack of dimes love affair thats going on with wannabe welders


I totally confess I'm a Dime fan, but then again and not a welder or at least not a good one..


> When i got certified many many years ago in aerospace there was no such thing as this make the weld pretty lark, spot welding a bike frame together with big overlapping blobs which are not fused properly? maybe not the best way to put anything together eh? the only way you are going to tell if a critical weld is sound is not by looking at it...but hey its only a bike right
> 
> this guy has it right though
> 
> Type 3.1 Journeyman Top Tube Length Arm & Head Tube Angle Pivot | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Is so much talent on the bike industry..


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## coconinocycles (Sep 23, 2006)

Practice!
My dad was a boiler welder full cert & my GF welded for over 30+ years - practice!

- Steve Garro, Coconino Cycles


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## nolan17 (Jun 9, 2009)

I always liked Nicolai's welds as well, I think Devin Lenz has some beautiful welds too. I have seen his in person but not a Nicolai. The OP's weld pic is very cool though.

-Nolan


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

I'd take Garro's untouched brazes over any tig weld hands down. Works of art.


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

shirk said:


> I'd take Garro's untouched brazes over any tig weld hands down. Works of art.


Any pictures of his work..?


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## shirk (Mar 24, 2004)

patineto said:


> Any pictures of his work..?


You must be new around here.

coconino cycles custom bicycles 928 774 7747 www.coconinocycles.com


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

shirk said:


> You must be new around here.


Around this parts of the forum for sure since I have not frame building skills, I'm basically a confess hack..


> coconino cycles custom bicycles 928 774 7747 www.coconinocycles.com


I agree, fantastic work..


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

shirk said:


> I'd take Garro's untouched brazes over any tig weld hands down. Works of art.


Pateinto i dont know what he's making , i know of a company in the USA who make turbo manifolds and inlets ,toxic fab or something, again its all stainless, i was taught to weld Ti and aluminium ,whilst many find aluminium difficult i find it easier and more forgiving than steel

tig vs Braze........Garro already knows the answer as do a whole host of guys who used to build racing motorcycle frames


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## jtmartino (Jul 31, 2008)

We have a lot of local talented welders (Potts, Steelman, etc.) but I gotta admit the guys at Firefly really know their way around a weld:


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

jtmartino said:


> We have a lot of local talented welders (Potts, Steelman, etc.) but I gotta admit the guys at Firefly really know their way around a weld:
> 
> View attachment 840996


Very nice..

Actually I have another funky project, made by "el camino fabrication" that used to be located in Berkeley now in Portland..


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## BenCooper (Feb 25, 2013)

compositepro said:


> whilst many find aluminium difficult i find it easier and more forgiving than steel


I'm new to TIG (been brazing for 18 years) but I find this too - much more comfortable TIGing with aluminium than I am with steel. It's the larger puddle size I think, more like fillet brazing.


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## Eric Malcolm (Dec 18, 2011)

View attachment 841001
[/quote]

I like your style...

Eric


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## graviT (Aug 9, 2009)

compositepro said:


> tig vs Braze........Garro already knows the answer as do a whole host of guys who used to build racing motorcycle


Which is why all the top racing motorcycles today are still fillet brazed

..... Oh wait

Lugs, fillet, TIG all work and make good bicycles. From a users perspective it's mostly a difference of aesthetics. From a fabricators perspective it comes down to the processes they know, the bikes they make and the type of work they enjoy doing.

I personally love the look of a great weld as well as an unfiled fillet. I'm not too hot on a smooth finished fillet because I know files and bondo can cover over a lot of poor technique. That being said, sometimes smooth joins under thick paint looks pretty slick.


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## compositepro (Jun 21, 2007)

graviT said:


> Which is why all the top racing motorcycles today are still fillet brazed
> 
> ..... Oh wait
> 
> ...



















I found some photos on the internet of a motorcycle frame a while ago whilst looking into Tig brazing, this was the work of a man who has been brazing for over 30 years at HARRIS motorcycle frames, the brazed comment is based on a very lengthy discussion with him regards what hes seen in his life and what the new kid on the block had test data to back up,

I remember when i worked at triumph if you were a bike nut (motorcycle) then this place would have been heaven as they actually purchased the competitor products and tore it down,

the question was how do we beat the competitors product, one day the R6 was rolled into the shop , by the time we got to the frame , it was easier to reassemble it than try to build a competing product so i suppose im aware not all motorcycle frames are brazed

more the classic ones or old school ideas which get lost in time

Im a fan of glue it has its advantages and drawbacks you have to design things in a particular way , this is no different to welding but again the same as can be said for "right material for the right application" , the same can be said about joining

what is the truth is the numbers you get off a test rig ,no amount of reading I do will compete with real world numbers

I suppose what I'm saying is you can borrow from other industries also ,look outside the bicycle world of "x" says he does this on such website and do some digging round , its often pleasantly surprising what reveals itself


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

compositepro said:


> View attachment 841138
> 
> 
> View attachment 841139
> ...


Thanks for sharing, I have never seeing suck a nice motorcycle frame and I have been around them for a long time..


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## wv_bob (Sep 12, 2005)

That first photo looks like the work of Brown Dog Welding He posts often on the HAMB and IIRC he does that by walking the cup. There's some more examples here Flickr Search: weave


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## patineto (Oct 28, 2005)

wv_bob said:


> That first photo looks like the work of Brown Dog Welding He posts often on the HAMB and IIRC he does that by walking the cup. There's some more examples here Flickr Search: weave


Yes I'm pretty sure that is the company, thanks for the links..


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## Aaron D (Dec 14, 2005)

DEFCON4130 said:


> That first one was done by walking the cup and most likely with the aid of a welding positioner. Thats pretty much what i do all day... once you get use to walking the cup its super easy and a positioner will let you hang out at the same torch angle the whole pass making look like so.


DEFCON4130 is correct, I as well used to do that all day as well. Not to hard to "walk the cup" as your work rotates. Now doing the same and holding a mirror on the back side of a pipe because there's no room to get back there is tricky


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## Aaron D (Dec 14, 2005)

compositepro said:


> defcon4130 is bang on the money
> 
> was going to say this is walking the cup , its primary purpose is to keep constant gap at the torch tip second thing is its dissallowed for certain welds (not bicycle related) at least in the UK
> 
> ...


I should have read further, but since this drifted off of bikes again.....


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