# swapping out my edge 200... what non-Garmin gps would you recommend?



## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

The edge 200 is getting handed down to my wife's road bike.

I need a new GPS for my mountain bike. I will not be buying Garmin due to stubbornness and hate.

I simply want a GPS that has best accuracy. All I need is distance, speed, average speed... All the rest is just a bonus. In reality the simpler the better for me. All I really do is ride then upload to strava.

I really don't even care about the price at this point. 

Suggestions?


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## thasingletrackmastah (Nov 15, 2005)

Etrex10, but that's a Garmin...
Accurate, cheap, fast, simple.
Complet and programable bicycle computer screens etc.
But it's a Garmin...


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## JasperIN (May 16, 2009)

Garmin in my opinion are the best, definitely not cheap


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## jojemoruga (Apr 24, 2014)

How do you program the bike screens on the etrex10? And will it record and show speed and such?

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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

Garmin 510 works perfectly for your needs--mounting options, weatherproof, cold resistant, back light, etc. yes it is a garmin, but they are very active in cycling and are a reasonable company.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

so you're hating on Garmin because you are unhappy that you bought their cheapest cycling model in spite of ample information that the recording interval on it sucks?

they're your toys, I suppose. I haven't encountered a consumer grade GPS that does it better.


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

y0bailey said:


> Suggestions?


Maybe TomTom Multisport?
TomTom Multi-Sport GPS watch (Grey)
Very easy to use and works great even in the forrest. And can also be used as a wrist watch.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

The TomTom looks like a possible choice!

I ordered a Cateye Stealth 10, and will be running a Cateye vs Edge200 vs Android/Nexus 4 shootout this weekend. I will report in here. If the Cateye has even phone-levels of accuracy it will be the winner. The Edge200 is always 10-15% low of the phone, and 15-25% low of a dedicated cycle computer. Hoping the Cateye's 1 second recording interval is the ticket.


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## Stark (Apr 29, 2008)

God to hear! I will read your report. 
I was also considering the Stealth 10, but the desire to use the GPS when windsurfing made the TomTom a better choice for me.


Peace.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

If you want more accurate distances and speeds, you use a ANT+ speed/cadence sensor. This is the same with Tom Tom or Garmin. Comparing back to you phone doesn't mean anything.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

heyyall said:


> If you want more accurate distances and speeds, you use a ANT+ speed/cadence sensor. This is the same with Tom Tom or Garmin. Comparing back to you phone doesn't mean anything.


Trying to avoid that. I would just use a good ole fashioned computer if I wanted to dink with a sensor of any type. My riding style/terrain = sensors are annoying and constantly failing me.


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## heyyall (Nov 10, 2011)

y0bailey said:


> Trying to avoid that. I would just use a good ole fashioned computer if I wanted to dink with a sensor of any type. My riding style/terrain = sensors are annoying and constantly failing me.


I can understand where you are coming from, but if you want better data, you either go at a turtle's pace or use a supplemental sensor. I've dug out rides with my 510 with and without a speed/cadence sensor on tight singletrack and the comparisons are striking. Even with relatively high sampling rate on the GPS, it's not great at tracking distances with rapid elevation changes and tight corners.

I don't like the Garmin GSC-10 unit. It's kind of bulky and the little arm thing looks like it is just waiting to be snapped off. This new product looks promising. It looks fool proof for mountain biking too. 
A look at Garmin?s new ANT+ Speed & Cadence magnet-less sensors | DC Rainmaker


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

Any I ran my Cateye Stealth 10 vs. Garmin Edge 200 experiment (plus phones) today. The Garmin is a flaming pile of ****.

GPS experiment, trial 1: Tight local singletrack ridden at a medium pace. 

New GPS = Cateye Stealth 10. 
Old GPS = Garmin Edge 200.
Phone GPS on mine = Android Nexus 4
Phone GPS on buddy = Iphone 4S

Results
Cateye = 9.2miles
Garmin = 7.7miles (LOL)
My Phone = 8.8 miles
buddy's Phone = 8.3miles

In conclusion,

Garmin = HORRIBLE pile of useless crap
Cateye = Cheaper and 100x better
Phones = still not Garmin level of terribleness. 


The Garmin is ~19% less accurate than the Cateye Stealth 10 (and the Stealth 10 is cheaper by $30).

Garmin, get your heads out of your assess and give the Edge 200 a 1s recording option. Your "smart" recording is clearly not very smart.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

again, the facts about the Edge 200's recording interval have not been secret. it's not Garmin's fault you didn't pay attention.

Yes, the Edge 200 is a POS, but it's also your fault for buying it.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> again, the facts about the Edge 200's recording interval have not been secret. it's not Garmin's fault you didn't pay attention.
> 
> Yes, the Edge 200 is a POS, but it's also your fault for buying it.


Just trying to stop other mountain bikers from buying it, and hopefully spread enough hate that Garmin decides to actually support it's products and update with a 1s recording option.

The ability is there.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> again, the facts about the Edge 200's recording interval have not been secret. it's not Garmin's fault you didn't pay attention.
> 
> Yes, the Edge 200 is a POS, but it's also your fault for buying it.


Well, I'd disagree with you there. I guess I just don't think that a consumer should have to do a lot of research to understand the basic functions and fitness of an item that is marketed for a specific purpose. I mean, one would really have to dig and research a bit to discover that the 200 has an 'automatic' recording interval, and even then, you can't tell what that means from the Garmin website or the materials that come with the 200. I assumed it was set to auto record, that whatever that meant was suitable to accurately record my rides, and that's about it.

The only way to really know in advance what impact the auto recording interval would have would come from reviewing forums or something, which I don't think a consumer should reasonably be expected to do.

I mean, I reviewed the Garmin website and a couple on-line reviews of the 200. I then walked in to REI, looked at the Garmins and the sales person told me the features of the 200 and 500. She noted the differences, namely the different stats that the 500 can record and display, but never was it mentioned that it doesn't record frequently enough. Nor does the box indicate that it doesn't record frequently, may not be accurate on twisty routes or that the 200 is more suitable for road biking.

So yeah, the auto recording interval isn't a secret, but it is pretty hard to understand what it means for practical purposes before buying it and trying it out.

I'm just grateful for REI's return policy!


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

Maybe it's my tendency towards over-analysis speaking, but I don't spend hundreds of dollars on a whim. my wife gives me tons of crap for over-analyzing purchases. but I've been bitten by spending too much of my money on products that don't live up to the hype, and that hurts. I am going to do my best to avoid doing it again.

every one of Garmin's recent GPS receivers has "smart" recording as an option, and IME, it is no different for any piece of hardware. It is crap on the bike. I actually use it when I run or when I want to record a long hike or something. It works fine, then. But combine speed AND twisty like you do on a bike and it's crap. In EVERY piece of hardware I've seen it for.

I've even read about road riders who hate the Edge 200's overreliance on that recording interval for the standard 90 degree turns on most road rides, that it shorts the corner far too much even then. The Edge 200 seems to only be halfway useable if you're on rail trails. Yeah, Garmin had this same debacle when they first released the Edge 500 and other receivers from its generation with only Smart Recording. They should have learned from that, but unfortunately there appears to have been little lasting impression from that incident. They should be held accountable for it. But that doesn't necessarily mean all of their hardware is junk, either, as this OP seems to be leaning. There are a couple other threads in this forum from people who have one irritation with Garmin and are ignoring the rest of their good hardware.


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## y0bailey (Dec 19, 2006)

NateHawk said:


> They should be held accountable for it. But that doesn't necessarily mean all of their hardware is junk, either, as this OP seems to be leaning. There are a couple other threads in this forum from people who have one irritation with Garmin and are ignoring the rest of their good hardware.


They should be held accountable for it, hence the rants and attempting to get the information in the public eye.

And a device is only as good as the SOFTWARE. I could give two rats ass about how great the interface is and how well it is made if it is 20-25% inaccurate. The Edge 200 is actually a nice little piece of equipment, with a decent interface. It has the Cateye beat there. But it is so inaccurate it might as well be a paper weight.

If Garmin decides to update the sampling frequency to 1s, I will re-run this comparison and if it is as accurate as the Cateye, it will take over the Cateye's job just due to the interface.

So I don't hate the device, I just hate a company that puts out something sub-par and doesn't spend the 2 hours it would take to port the 1s recording from the 500 to the 200. And when you treat your customers this way, you as a company are dead to me.


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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

It took time for the outrage over the sampling interval of the 500 to reach the necessary furor to get them to fix the recording interval. I've been harping on the Edge 200 about its recording interval for a long time, but actual user reports complaining about it haven't started showing up until fairly recently.

Browsing through the past year on the Garmin forums for this particular device, it appears that most people posting about it there are posting very noob type questions. VERY few people making any complaints about sampling interval (I see you have...and one other guy who only just now seems to realize the importance of sampling interval). It seems Garmin have found the market they were trying to hit with this device. Frankly, to me the market they're after for this device seems better suited to a basic $30 cyclocomputer or to phone apps because the Edge 200 is no better than any phone GPS app.

But fact is, there aren't really many viable competitors to Garmin in this market.


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## Tystevens (Nov 2, 2011)

NateHawk said:


> They should be held accountable for it. But that doesn't necessarily mean all of their hardware is junk, either, as this OP seems to be leaning. There are a couple other threads in this forum from people who have one irritation with Garmin and are ignoring the rest of their good hardware.


Yeah, I don't really get the apparent vendetta against the company for one piece of equipment that works, but just not great. I mean, the Edge 200 mostly does what it is supposed to do in a general sense, and after all, it is their entry level device. I don't dislike Garmin at all (obviously, since I traded my 200 for a 510 and have purchased an Etrex 20 since!).

I just don't think I'm culpable in the least for buying a product that is held out to serve a specific purpose because I didn't research it extensively first.


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## johnbike81 (May 23, 2013)

Is there anyone who has found a way to hack the 200 to change the recording interval? 

I have one and for the $100 I paid I've been pretty happy. The course feature has worked pretty well for exploring new areas, but diffinitely could be better. Considering its not intended for nav I can't complain. 

Accuracy is on par with my phone for the most part. Not sure why Garmin won't release a software update that would allow 1 sec intervals. Id be happy to take a huge battery life hit for that upgrade. 

What do you all think the best bar mounted cycle computer w nav would be other than the garmin 800? 



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## Harold (Dec 23, 2003)

johnbike81 said:


> Is there anyone who has found a way to hack the 200 to change the recording interval?
> 
> I have one and for the $100 I paid I've been pretty happy. The course feature has worked pretty well for exploring new areas, but diffinitely could be better. Considering its not intended for nav I can't complain.
> 
> ...


What do you mean by "best"? What are your criteria? Garmin has 5 current options (more like 2, though, since the Edge 800 is essentially getting phased out for the Edge 810), the Edge 800/810, the Edge 1000, and the Edge Touring and Touring Plus models. They all have the same basic functions, but there are a couple new routing options in the newer ones, and we're starting to see more and more phone connectivity. There are a couple other options out there from other companies, but direct comparisons with Garmin's options are rare because the other options are much harder to find.

Not to mention, very few comparisons of any kind are really scientific at all because we have absolutely NO idea what the baseline should be. The example in this thread illustrates this point exactly.

From what I've heard, Garmin's new cycle routing on the new models that use OSM maps (Touring, Touring Plus, and Edge 1000) is hit-or-miss. Not sure how much has to do with the routing being different and having bugs or how much has to do with the underlying maps (which you can personally go in and fix, which isn't a bad thing), that Garmin really has no hand in developing.


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## johnbike81 (May 23, 2013)

Thanks for the info, I guess "the best" is hard to define when each device has many different features.

The 2 main features I want in the next GPS I get will be accurate 1 sec recording intervals and a good navigation feature. The 200s breadcrumb trail has gotten me around new places, but an actual map is what I will want next, along w the ability to upload my own maps.

Aside from the ones you listed, do any of the more hiking oriented garmin devices work with the garmin mounting system used by their cycling devices? 

Keeping with the theme of the thread, are there any other cycle GPS not made by gamin that have a decent mapping feature? 

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