# What e bikes are good for.



## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

e MTB's are the result of the more mature EU market for e bikes that has been building over there for the last 7 or so years. Every bike company and even some car companies have gotten with the e bike train and in many flavors. But the early days were geared towards commuters and it wasn't until they laid down that base and acceptance was achieved that e MTB's were developed.

Now the big players there have eyes on the US market and are doing everything they can to promote e MTB's here and by passing the commuter market which to me is the best use of e bikes, especially in city and urban areas as car replacement for single person, single purpose use.

I personally have been riding US legal motor assist bikes, both gas and electric, since 2000. Not full time, but when my needs require, and always on the road. Although I have been riding MTB's for over 30 years I have yet to ride any of my motor assist bikes more than a few miles on single track and then only to connect with a path or road. Riding them on the road and for carrying stuff while doing so they are very useful. To me they add a measure of safety in that I can keep up with the flow of traffic better and stop signs are fun to stop at and launch from. Usually you can make it from one side of town to the other faster than in your car and parking is not an issue.

So wield your pitch forks if you must in regards to them on existing trail systems but don't throw the baby out with the bath water and at least keep your mind open to the possibility of e bikes as not a crutch for recreation but a useful tool that can help to lighten the load on our roads.

http://www.multibriefs.com/briefs/LEVA/EBWR_Announcement.pdf


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

I dredged up this video that I made 12/08 that while it is a 4 cycle gas engine (which have different regs, 49cc (2hp) and 30 mph, than e bikes 1 hp and 20 mph)






Throttle controlled but I had the gearing (3 spd Internal/7 spd cassette hub) so even with the 20" rear wheel I could pedal on top of the motor at 30. Like riding a tandem with a very fit stoker! I also prefer a throttle over PAS with e because PAS doesn't allow you to vary your gearing and cadence like a throttle can. Plus getting off the line is much quicker with a throttle and that is one of the biggest benefits of motor assist. Another is that when the assist is not on the bike will pedal normally with as little parasitic drag as possible, but of course there is a weight penalty that the power plant overcomes when in use.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

This: https://www.google.com/search?q=e+c...2&ved=0ahUKEwiwgsH6iIjMAhVRwmMKHQ10B7wQ7AkIag


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

They are great for sneaking up on a regular inefficient pedaling mt biker who thinks he is king, UNTIL "HEY GET OUTTA MY WAY STRAVA SLOWPOKE as the E-Bike rips... 

Bye Bye

Meant as a joke! Please send all correspondence to:
The Weaky Times


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## watts888 (Oct 2, 2012)

Ebikes are OK for commuting, but they fall into the electric scooter/moped category. Good for what they do, but expect to be pointed at and made fun of. They shouldn't be used on a trail unless needed for people with disabilities. If a person only has one leg, e-bike is OK. If a person is fat and lazy; get a real bike, get in shape, and ride.


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## danielsilva (Aug 13, 2011)

Dunno about the more mature Euro market though ... while there is a more mature market over here it's manly on the road/commuting side of things - where i see a lot of ebikes - but i've yet to see ONE e-bike on the trails and i ride in a lot of trails that are between bikes, hikers and off road bikes and quads.


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## Harryman (Jun 14, 2011)

This guy figured out what they are good for. :thumbsup:


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

Hundreds of moons ago when you first got the motorized bug, I didn't really get it.

In that way that you've always had, you summed it up so that I (and other morons like me) could 'get it':

_"It's not meant to replace a bike ride, it's meant to replace a car ride"._

And for that use, I can get behind e-bikes.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Actually Mike it is replacing a car ride with a bike ride. Whatever, it is another one of those things that will take years to assimilate but will eventually. Best to all down in the 'Yard.


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## OwenM (Oct 17, 2012)

The only interest I've personally seen for ebikes here is actually from people who have no interest in cycling, but see them as a quiet, easily transported alternative to ATVs to use at their hunting clubs.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

A little heavy on the bug nuts:nono:


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

E bikes are all the rage but this bike is a gas.


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## NEPMTBA (Apr 7, 2007)

E-bikes are good for riding...
...all the same things as mt biking is good for!


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## goodchat (May 29, 2015)

They are great for many things. In short they provide mobility for some users for some needs, better than alternatives.

Very importantly in this unhealthy world, fitness is far less a barrier than for a bicycle. That is not to say the rider wont increase his pedaling in good time, which is excellent for society and folks. Knowing you WILL make it and not be puffed hot and sweaty, removes much anxiety about older or less fit folk getting back on a bike.

Shouldnt cyclists applaud that?


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

This could be a weekly installment for me I am still finding stuff , I sold my van and ride my E bike to work its a lot more fun. On the weekdays I put a basket on the back and it carries my laptop and thermos to work, then I use it to run to the store with the basket its handy and I can park right inside the lobby . On the weekends just unbunge the basket and I am trail ready I put a lot of thought in to my bike and it shows on the trail , It is a pleasure to to ride , It also causes me to spend money though lol lots cause now we travel around the Midwest riding . Its great to take to the beach I can get all over the place on it instead of just sitting in a chair .Now I am thinking how I could use it to help with trail work ?? carry flagstone ? tools?


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Another thing I was thinking last year I came across a bad crash the paramedics were having a hard time getting to her its was single track what if the paramedic had a E bike ?. it wouldn't take much to out fit one lots of paramedics ride MT bikes anyway as a hobby he could get to anywere a Mt bike could and faster longer a way . The same could be said for park rangers cover a lot of ground quietly it would make it safer for all the park users . wait 5 min I will think of more


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

City cops, mall cops and security guards are an obvious market. The Santa Monica PD has a bicycle unit for patrolling the pedestrian malls and city parks, electrifying them will only make them more efficient. They ride some sort of Specialized hardtail MTB now: an easy conversion to a Mid-drive.....


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Well whats for sure you will see more and more E bikes if you hate E bikes just ride one , you will see .


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## goodchat (May 29, 2015)

On a geared mid drive, pedaling is totally optional.

This opens new windows for toting stuff. Even if the load prevents pedaling, you can limp along with some radical loads (like a double bed frame from a council clean up, or as many grocery bags as you like slung from the seat).

I "scoot" a lot. Stand on the left pedal with my left foot. Then mostly, the entire other side of the bike is load space. I counterbalance this weight with my lean and weight for balance, and work the throttle & brakes on the handle bars. The seat is the strongest and most balanced suspending point. Most things do not need tying down, just snagged somehow on the seat.

Recently I scored a garden mulcher. Barely liftable & too big for a car or wagon. I just hooked it on the seat creatively, and scooted it 1 km right to its storage spot in my yard.

Pedaling is often an unsafe distraction when ducking and diving at near zero speeds around pedestrians and obstacles. I am so impressed with stability and vision in the standing on the pedals, semi stationary riding mode.


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

lol ok then another use!! I have my basket setup so that two Growlers of beer fit perfectly


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## goodchat (May 29, 2015)

Life is too short to let facts get in the way of a good story. So lets get a bit crazy here.

A scenario.

A poor farmer or just one dealing with inevitably limited resources and unlimited potential improvements to his land.

In an OZ context, his ~biggest cost and risk is machinery. This means petrol motors. This means complex/hassle/maintenance/unreliable/costly.

Electric tools etc are cheap as chips, torqy - 2.5kw is mainstream (available from a domestic 240v wall outlet and hence a target market for home tool manufacturers) in tools if needed - a lot.

The farmer cant afford to electrify his farm with power points, so he has a train of solar panels and a big battery he tows about the farm, he parks in the sun, unfolds panels a bit maybe, rigs a windmill maybe, & runs a lead to the job, where he uses tools as above, or easily and cheaply improvised electric powered ones to suit him.

He may only get a few hours of heavy use for welding or posthole digging etc, but 8 hous is doable if tasks are managed well.

Another analogy is a building site. They love their battery tools and the packs that power them are a market force. But they are small. An ebike is often 48v 20ah which is 1kwh, or 2kw for half an hour, enough for a quick electric jackhammer or welding job say. When not used as a battery, its handy site transport for the apprentice to run errands.

More succinctly put, it could be a mobile power point, much as power takeoff is in trucks.

In fact, remove the qik release rear wheel of a mid drive ebike, and you have a geared chain drive to power whatever you want - swap a circular saw with a bike axle and cogset for the wheel? .


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## rider95 (Mar 30, 2016)

Man your out ther lol I love it!!! but you are right sure why not ? so no need for a light bill!!! now if I could just get rid of my mail box (if I don't have a mail box cant send me any bills right?)


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## WoodlandHills (Nov 18, 2015)

Why can't you put a mid drive on a wheel barrow or two wheeled cart? I think a BBSHD would also make a good universal power source for small pumps, grinders, centrifuges, and other farm uses. It would need a bit of modding, but the factory is more that up to the challenge. Just move the power head from machine to machine and click it into place.


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## Schecky (Jan 13, 2004)

What e motorcycles are good for?

providing ammunition for limiting trail access


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

https://blog.e-bikerig.com/2016/05/...-in-your-electric-bike-transportation-future/


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

Bigwheel said:


> https://blog.e-bikerig.com/2016/05/...-in-your-electric-bike-transportation-future/


That guy is just pulling fantasy numbers out of thin air. I do appreciate the fact that he's focusing his efforts on the most useful potential for electric bikes, commuting and transportation, but stating that a Prius gets 50 mpg while walking is the equivalent of 55 mpg is silliness and discredits his case somewhat IMO.

Also I thought it was unnecessary and counter-productive for him to equate cycling with pain & misery while electric bikes = joy & happiness.


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

E-bikes will work very well for commuting until they become mainstream. Think about how your cheap ass boss will throw a fit when he realises that his staff doesn't buy gas anymore, they just steal electricity from him while at work.


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## Bigwheel (Jan 12, 2004)

Agreed JB, a lot of blue sky and needs more drama to appeal to the masses.

Actually business's with lot's of employees, hopefully not all with a cheap ass boss, are very interested in providing bicycles as transportation.

Google Rolls Out Ebikes To Their Mountain View Campus - OverVolted - Electric Bike News Blog


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## mikesee (Aug 25, 2003)

J.B. Weld said:


> That guy is just pulling fantasy numbers out of thin air. I do appreciate the fact that he's focusing his efforts on the most useful potential for electric bikes, commuting and transportation, but stating that a Prius gets 50 mpg while walking is the equivalent of 55 mpg is silliness and discredits his case somewhat IMO.
> 
> Also I thought it was unnecessary and counter-productive for him to equate cycling with pain & misery while electric bikes = joy & happiness.


I don't have a horse in the race, but I am curious how you know his numbers aren't substantive/verifiable?


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## J.B. Weld (Aug 13, 2012)

mikesee said:


> I don't have a horse in the race, but I am curious how you know his numbers aren't substantive/verifiable?


He comes up with 55mpg for someone walking based on calories consumed and the transportation costs to get that food delivered. That number may or may not be accurate but he gives no data to substantiate his claim

He also claims that a Prius gets 50mpg but fails to mention the the cost of raw materials mined to build it, production costs, maintenance, refineries necessary to run it, road building and maintenance, oil changes, tire changes, environmental costs, etc, etc. Also he ignores the fact that many people driving a Prius consume as many or more calories doing nothing as someone who is very active.

Never trust a man who claims a motor is more efficient than a human.


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## goodchat (May 29, 2015)

J.B. Weld said:


> He comes up with 55mpg for someone walking based on calories consumed and the transportation costs to get that food delivered. That number may or may not be accurate but he gives no data to substantiate his claim
> 
> He also claims that a Prius gets 50mpg but fails to mention the the cost of raw materials mined to build it, production costs, maintenance, refineries necessary to run it, road building and maintenance, oil changes, tire changes, environmental costs, etc, etc. Also he ignores the fact that many people driving a Prius consume as many or more calories doing nothing as someone who is very active.
> 
> Never trust a man who claims a motor is more efficient than a human.


You sold me with your final line. If thats your point, I agree, although organism is preferred to just humans alone.

Only a few of the very greenest conventional ICEs get ~25% from the heat content of fuel.

Free piston is now up to 42%, and oddly, ye olde compound steam engine also got over 40%


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## rlee (Aug 22, 2015)

Comparing fuel sources is tricky business. I work in the auto industry and there has been lots of studies from independent sources already. As it stands with plug in electric cars, it is debateable if they are better for the environment or not. Where I live we have Hydro-electric power so it is way better then fossil fuel or reactor based energy.
E-bikes, because of pedal assist would be significantly better but are still way dirtier than a true bicycle. You need to factor in how you charge them and the impact from both the battery construction and disposal.
I understand the people that commute because of the distance but this only works if you are replacing your car. Here in Canada most people still use their car in the winter.


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## gonzo (Feb 18, 2004)

*good for*



Bigwheel said:


> e MTB's are the result of the more mature EU market for e bikes that has been building over there for the last 7 or so years. Every bike company and even some car companies have gotten with the e bike train and in many flavors. But the early days were geared towards commuters and it wasn't until they laid down that base and acceptance was achieved that e MTB's were developed.
> 
> Now the big players there have eyes on the US market and are doing everything they can to promote e MTB's here and by passing the commuter market which to me is the best use of e bikes, especially in city and urban areas as car replacement for single person, single purpose use.
> 
> ...


ebikes are good for;
-commuting
-lazy people
-accelerating the closure of legal mtn bike trails.


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